H-1B visas are skilled worker visas, and not typically used to employee low-wage workers. The people I know on them are consultants, engineers, tech analysts, and coders, and make nearly 6 figures. It's incredibly misleading that the NYT hasn't fixed the headline of this article.
4
Come to California, where entire IT departments have been methodologically displaced with H1-Bs. A masters degree for many of these H1-B countries is equal to an Associates degree, and H1-Bs can slip through if they have a BA.
I think at first the goal is to hire lower cost workers, to drive higher profits, but once in the door, it's a slow march to sweep locals to the street, with lower cost, less experienced workers.
One prior comment shared that if skills aren't available domestically, that schools should be teaching those topics.
The DOE should publish targeting skill demand for the next 5yrs and make sure that demand will be met by school's receiving Federal Student Aid.
I think at first the goal is to hire lower cost workers, to drive higher profits, but once in the door, it's a slow march to sweep locals to the street, with lower cost, less experienced workers.
One prior comment shared that if skills aren't available domestically, that schools should be teaching those topics.
The DOE should publish targeting skill demand for the next 5yrs and make sure that demand will be met by school's receiving Federal Student Aid.
7
Having been the point person for a foreign software company which moved its HQ to SF in the 90s, I can say firsthand that there are many factors other than lowering costs that motivate H1B visas for highly trained programmers and marketing/sales staff. Start with the most obvious - language skills. All of our H1Bs spoke two languages, most 3-4 which made them far more effective than their generally monolingual American counterparts in a company with offices/customers around the world. Second, they are NOT lower cost in total for the term of their US employment as the legal, travel and relocation costs factor in heavily. Lastly, how much difference do 85K H1B visas p.a. make in an economy that generates 2 million a year? Not a helluva lot just more bread and circuses from the clown running the country.
That said the real laugher in Trump's absurd is the "Buy
That said the real laugher in Trump's absurd is the "Buy
3
That said the real laugher is Trump's absurd is the "Buy American" EO for all Federal agencies. He is promising that the FED budget deficits will be reduced, but how does he expect to make that happen making every US office in the nation buy more expensive US-made staplers, lawn mowers, computers, monitors, paper clips etc etc? NOT happening, even if they can find a stapler made in the USA! lol
Does the President have any notion that his "... all federal agencies will be directed to strictly enforce “Buy American” rules" has the smell of corruption and hypocrisy as it falls days after Ivanka won provisional approval from the Chinese government for three new trademarks and where approximately 100,000 Ivanka Trump branded shoes have been made. Clearly he doesn't and more importantly, he doesn't care as he has implied several times that since he's won, no one really cares about these small improprieties.
7
It seems that the author does not know much about H1-B Visas. This imported labor are not "Immigrants". They are temporary, short-term foreign workers with no right to stay in America once their assignment ends.
To echo some of the points made by other contributors, I worked at a major semiconductor company is the El Segundo area of Los Angeles. Twice a year, the Director of IT would travel to China and India, shopping for low-cost labor. For me, I had two H1-B workers assigned to me, so I know something of this program. I can tell you that two American workers could have filled those positions just fine, and I personally knew of several people, out of work, that could really have used the work. The Red Herring lie that comparable labor cannot be found here in America is one of the greatest fabrications of the late 20th century. It is about one thing and one thing only, $$$. At the aforementioned company, the Director of IT wasn't the only one doing this. Virtually every manager in the company had low-cost H1-B Visa staff. They do it because it can down from senior management to cut wages. Bringing in low cost foreign labor reduces all wages, as American workers are intimidated into accepting low wages as well, or be replaced.
To echo some of the points made by other contributors, I worked at a major semiconductor company is the El Segundo area of Los Angeles. Twice a year, the Director of IT would travel to China and India, shopping for low-cost labor. For me, I had two H1-B workers assigned to me, so I know something of this program. I can tell you that two American workers could have filled those positions just fine, and I personally knew of several people, out of work, that could really have used the work. The Red Herring lie that comparable labor cannot be found here in America is one of the greatest fabrications of the late 20th century. It is about one thing and one thing only, $$$. At the aforementioned company, the Director of IT wasn't the only one doing this. Virtually every manager in the company had low-cost H1-B Visa staff. They do it because it can down from senior management to cut wages. Bringing in low cost foreign labor reduces all wages, as American workers are intimidated into accepting low wages as well, or be replaced.
6
The Idea that there is a shortage of Americans who can do these jobs is a myth. There tech industry is replete with stories of how American engineers and IT workers had to train lower skilled, lower paid workers who would later replace them.
5
I can't believe that I agree with the NYT on something. Of course they are agreeing with Trump. So, go figure. The requirements for the H1-B really need to be tightened up. I am not against the idea in theory. But, if you have an American worker looking for work and a job he could have is occupied by an H1-B visa receiver then the American worker should be able to bump him out. Likewise, there should be no layoffs of American workers as long as there are H1-B workers still working. I had a friend laid off when there were a lot of H1-B types still keeping their jobs. Bringing in H1-B workers also has a depressive effect on wages.
5
The h1b criticisms have validity — a recent research paper (http://www.nber.org/papers/w23153) found that companies' use of the H-1B program between 1994 and 2001 kept wages down by up to 5.1% and employment of US workers down by as much as 10.8%, even while it created positive effects on the US economy and corporate profits.
However the underlying root cause of h1b wage depression is due to limited job mobility of h1b workers who cannot switch jobs and keep accept low paying jobs despite advance skillsets. This kind of visa slavery is caused by severe backlog in path to green card for tech workers from India and China (majority of applicants in h1b) who wait for 10-15 years in h1b category before being able to change jobs. This backlog is further exacerbated by frauds in the green card process in categories such as eb1c where a good number of fake "manager" applications are created by top multinational employers.
President Trump should carefully look at Green Card frauds under Eb1C, diversity visa and remove the per country green card limit of 7%. The green card process While 7% per country cap looks good for equality in theory, it is massive inequality in practice, since you are pitching citizen of Luxembourg or citizen of Haiti ahead of similar or many a times better India or Chinese citizen in the green card queue.
However the underlying root cause of h1b wage depression is due to limited job mobility of h1b workers who cannot switch jobs and keep accept low paying jobs despite advance skillsets. This kind of visa slavery is caused by severe backlog in path to green card for tech workers from India and China (majority of applicants in h1b) who wait for 10-15 years in h1b category before being able to change jobs. This backlog is further exacerbated by frauds in the green card process in categories such as eb1c where a good number of fake "manager" applications are created by top multinational employers.
President Trump should carefully look at Green Card frauds under Eb1C, diversity visa and remove the per country green card limit of 7%. The green card process While 7% per country cap looks good for equality in theory, it is massive inequality in practice, since you are pitching citizen of Luxembourg or citizen of Haiti ahead of similar or many a times better India or Chinese citizen in the green card queue.
6
Better to end all work visa programs.
3
Why I why is Mr. Trump allowed to import service people from Europe to work at his resort in Florida? He explained it by saying he couldn't find any Americans to work seasonally. Sad excuse.
Also, his daughter still has her brand clothes made in China.
How does he get away with this hypocrisy?
Also, his daughter still has her brand clothes made in China.
How does he get away with this hypocrisy?
7
Ten or fifteen years ago the big companies had their recruiters on the college campuses around graduation time - trying to hire up as many new tech workers as they can. Now they graduate to no work. Companies skirt the H1B rules by not hiring the foreign workers but instead replacing them with contracted workers which are hired by service companies. This needs to STOP. Our people need the jobs first and foremost.
9
There are some firms out there bringing in H1-B candidates and paying them lower wages but overall the issue IMHO (and I am a Recruiter so I work in this every day) is that the American candidates don't have the same skills that the Indian candidates do. It's not about paying less. It's about finding people with the right hands on technical skills. I'd strongly prefer to hire US candidates. On a typical job I get 90 Indians and 10 Americans and maybe 2-3 of the US candidates are qualified. Employers are not going to start hiring unqualified American candidates. They are going to offshore more and more. The problem as I see it is the US educational systems. It's badly broken. None of the Indian H1Bs are coming in with US undergraduate degrees.
9
more much ado about nothing.
Creating a brain-drain to our advantage is desirable (and in some fields, e.g., health care, imperative). but we don't gain an advantage by replacing recent college grads with foreign workers who are paid effectively much less than the nominal rate.
IMO the easiest method to move forward is to set the minimum H1-B salary - AFTER company fees - at $100K, and the sponsor has to prove that no one will take the job for $100K or less.
Creating a brain-drain to our advantage is desirable (and in some fields, e.g., health care, imperative). but we don't gain an advantage by replacing recent college grads with foreign workers who are paid effectively much less than the nominal rate.
IMO the easiest method to move forward is to set the minimum H1-B salary - AFTER company fees - at $100K, and the sponsor has to prove that no one will take the job for $100K or less.
3
Great suggestion!
2
A great idea and move on Trump's part. Don't agree with much of what he's done/said, but the HB1 visa program is a shame. When Obama increased it, I was astounded! Shame on him for that one, but who knows what the motivation was - maybe he didn't care and used it as a chip to encourage foreign countries to extent their love.
Anyone that thinks this was a good idea is not paying attention. I reject the idea that we need foreigners to work because we have no talent. Pure lies. Remember those Disney employees who had to train their replacements?
Anyone that thinks this was a good idea is not paying attention. I reject the idea that we need foreigners to work because we have no talent. Pure lies. Remember those Disney employees who had to train their replacements?
6
This is probably the only campaign promise that Trump should carry out; the H-1B program is in serious need of reform. It drives down wages and job availability for white collar workers. Now if Trump only practiced what he preached in his own business dealings.
3
Finally - I think this action is on the mark! Now Mr. President - take the BIG ACTION - go after thousands of owners at all levels of the business community who hire illegal aliens - make jobs available to millions of Americans on welfare!
2
Another great suggestion!
2
This is an executive order that I totally agree with. I wish he had done it the very first day. It seems that our large corporations hate American citizens who built them up in the first place. We have lost everything that made us a great nation.
Multiculturalism, diversity, Pluralism are euphemisms introduced to breakdown our coherence as a nation by leveling everyone to the lowest common denominator. America has always been a pluralist society far more so than China, India or any other African country.
I was born and raised in North Africa there is nothing in that part of the world that I miss, with the exception of tasty food. I find it disconcerting and scary that the very things I hated are showing up on this continent. I don't like what I see and feel. We are bringing a lot of problems to our shores. I hope I am wrong.
Multiculturalism, diversity, Pluralism are euphemisms introduced to breakdown our coherence as a nation by leveling everyone to the lowest common denominator. America has always been a pluralist society far more so than China, India or any other African country.
I was born and raised in North Africa there is nothing in that part of the world that I miss, with the exception of tasty food. I find it disconcerting and scary that the very things I hated are showing up on this continent. I don't like what I see and feel. We are bringing a lot of problems to our shores. I hope I am wrong.
3
Yay, finally something that is good for America! We need to protect jobs for our hard working, striving middle class students/engineers. With over a million international students now crowding into American colleges (3x more than a decade ago), all seeking high paying jobs, we need to set clear limits on their ability to move in permanently and take jobs away from our own. Good for Trump and shame on the Democrats for allowing this predatory situation to languish.
Many of us believe that the NYT has become too cozy with those international colleges. You don't seem see that you no longer have the best interests of Americans, at heart.
Many of us believe that the NYT has become too cozy with those international colleges. You don't seem see that you no longer have the best interests of Americans, at heart.
3
This is one good thing Trump has done, though I haven't seen the details of what he signed. The H1B program has a serious loophole which allows companies to game the system to replace American workers with foreign workers of ordinary skill for way less money. One trick is to advertise the job with an extraordinary list of requirements that no worker could be expected to meet, but at a pay rate way less than what anybody who met even half those requirements would accept. When the statutory amount of time has passed without finding any American who's 'qualified', the job is then given legally to an H1B.
It's a shame no Democratic hasn't done this in the 25+ years this law has been in effect, but not surprising considering the level of payola that swamps both parties.
It's a shame no Democratic hasn't done this in the 25+ years this law has been in effect, but not surprising considering the level of payola that swamps both parties.
11
Raise the H1b application fee to 50K, this will cut down the abuse. Limit the H1b visa to 1 year. Every year they must file for extension and that 50K annual fee should apply each time. Also, Labor department must verify that H1bs are really paid their salary as shown in the papers. Often, companies do not pay that promised salary. H1bs do not complain as they are really after the Green Card.
2
The H1b visa has been an issue for years - one that Dem's ignore because it is one that Republicans (!) have been bringing up for a long time. R's even raised it during the last 'comprehensive immigration reform' attempt. (As much as I resist anything with an 'R' attached, this was one I supported.) In Montana, a couple years ago, Oracle was requesting about 600 H1b visas and with no plans to expand their facility. Workers knew they were targeted for replacement with lower wage workers. I have yet to see evidence that USA doesn't have skilled workers - I only hear this 'reason' from corp's who would benefit from salary and benefit cuts. Seems this is an easy 'pro-American' worker issue and Dem's should be on board - and not knee-jerk this into an 'anti-immigrant' issue - it is not.
9
After years of half truths and disinformation an unlikely ally (Trump) takes up the mantle for American citizens in STEM career fields. I've worked in high tech professions for over 30 years, 15 with a major software vendor in a national consulting practice. I've watched as qualified American citizens have lost their jobs in cities across North America. For years high tech companies have complained about a critical shortage of STEM workers in the United States. The only shortage that I'm aware of is for folks that are willing to work for 50 cents on the dollar. That shortage will always exist. High tech companies have used the H-1b, L-1, B-1, F-1 and J-1 visa types for years to drive down wages and benefits in the high tech sector. It's a real shame that there do not seem to be more advocates in our country that want to help grow the high tech sector from our grade schools, through college and into industry. The only way that STEM fields become attractive again is with a public-private partnership that encourages and enforces good behavior from industry and government.
10
Finally!
In order to see the deleterious effect of this program on our society, people need to spend some time out here in Santa Clara, Sunnyvale and Fremont. The problem with these tech workers is that after their assignment is over, they do not leave -- they stay and they bring in their extended families.
In order to see the deleterious effect of this program on our society, people need to spend some time out here in Santa Clara, Sunnyvale and Fremont. The problem with these tech workers is that after their assignment is over, they do not leave -- they stay and they bring in their extended families.
4
What about all the low wage foreigners that the Trumps hire for all their business. They don't like hiring Americans. Will the trumps still get to hire foreigners?
3
I've been reading the NYT's coverage of Trump and his America First promises for a while now, and I must say that many NYT readers -- or at least, commenters on this article -- are being hypocritical. In almost every other area where Trump spouts his America First rhetoric, the comments section is full of people (rightfully, in my opinion) criticising him, accusing him of xenophobia and racism, and mocking his efforts to return to a pre-globalisation world as seen through rose-coloured lenses. Most of that Trump rhetoric, of course, affects people in rural areas, border areas, the Rust Belt, miners, factory workers...not the typical NYT reader, in other words.
But this article has to do with protecting white collar, high skilled, high tech jobs -- much more relevant to NYT readers -- and the comments section is full of people who suddenly agree with Trump. The most liked comments are almost all people who say this is the only thing they agree with Trump on, invariably backed by their personal experience -- or the experience of people they know -- who have lost their jobs to H1B visa holders. And let me tell you that some of the derogatory terms used to refer to Indian and Chinese engineers, to software firms in Bangalore or outsourcing firms in Hyderabad or educational institutions in New Delhi are quite as xenophobic and verging on racist as the terms that your political opponents use about Latino migrants or West Asian refugees or Chinese manufacturers. I call hypocrisy.
But this article has to do with protecting white collar, high skilled, high tech jobs -- much more relevant to NYT readers -- and the comments section is full of people who suddenly agree with Trump. The most liked comments are almost all people who say this is the only thing they agree with Trump on, invariably backed by their personal experience -- or the experience of people they know -- who have lost their jobs to H1B visa holders. And let me tell you that some of the derogatory terms used to refer to Indian and Chinese engineers, to software firms in Bangalore or outsourcing firms in Hyderabad or educational institutions in New Delhi are quite as xenophobic and verging on racist as the terms that your political opponents use about Latino migrants or West Asian refugees or Chinese manufacturers. I call hypocrisy.
9
You're absolutely correct on this one, it seems people want to see brown people in low wage jobs only and cannot digest the fact the white collar jobs can be filled by them and are scared about this. They will let in millions of unskilled people but not skilled people!
3
First, democrats have always been on board for reforming the immigration system. That is entirely different than building a stupid wall or kicking companies out.
Second, there is a big difference between arguing that an abusive visa system be reformed and targeting refugees because they come from a country that is muslim.
Second, there is a big difference between arguing that an abusive visa system be reformed and targeting refugees because they come from a country that is muslim.
3
Dude! This is a Labor issue, not a "Trump" issue. You've badly misunderstood the comments here on this issue. As a LABOR issue, this disastrous program effects all Americans, regardless of political affiliation.
There seems to be 2 kinds of people; those looking for a solution to a problem, and those that just want to play politics with it. Just saying...
There seems to be 2 kinds of people; those looking for a solution to a problem, and those that just want to play politics with it. Just saying...
3
So the Irony of doing next to nothing (more) to Folks that hire Illegals vs what's being proposed for folks Hiring Legals,..is quite revealing.
3
Please tell Mr.Atkinson that Vancouver is not 'off-shore', it is part of mainland North America...
If you think this will stop jobs going 'offshore' to the far east, it will in fact accelerate it because those talents won't be able to physically work here, but can remotely do the work.
Please continue to shut down the H1-B program Mr.45, western Canada will welcome their skills here.
If you think this will stop jobs going 'offshore' to the far east, it will in fact accelerate it because those talents won't be able to physically work here, but can remotely do the work.
Please continue to shut down the H1-B program Mr.45, western Canada will welcome their skills here.
4
I asked this below, but does H1-B have a counterpart in Canada?
I think "Off-shore" has become a generic term for out-of-country. I think the issue is not having jobs leave America. It doesn't really matter where...
BTW, you raise an important point. We are in a virtualized world now. One company that I worked for had an "off-shore" team that did the code work. They had remote access, so no need for a H1-B visa. We are increasingly living in a world where most skilled, and even semi-skilled workers are moving to virtual work. I, myself, just started a position where I work from my home office. It's a win-win for business, and for the worker as well. That is, IMHO, the future for skilled American labor; work globally, from home.
BTW, you raise an important point. We are in a virtualized world now. One company that I worked for had an "off-shore" team that did the code work. They had remote access, so no need for a H1-B visa. We are increasingly living in a world where most skilled, and even semi-skilled workers are moving to virtual work. I, myself, just started a position where I work from my home office. It's a win-win for business, and for the worker as well. That is, IMHO, the future for skilled American labor; work globally, from home.
As an Indian citizen living in India, I do think the US efforts to reduce H1B visas will be a good thing for my country in the long run. Of course, there will be short term pain, but overall, we will benefit from lower brain drain. After all, Indian taxpayers like me are the ones who subsdise the IITs, so why should we let the top IIT graduates fly out to benefit another country's economy? I think we'd prefer to keep the future Sundar Pichais to ourselves, thank you very much.
13
I vote for you to become the next Prime Minister of India>
It's about time. So many American IT people have displaced with this nonsense and exporting jobs to india.
6
I just sent a link to this article in response to a "job" query I received unsolicited by email. The byline at the end of the message I received was:
Ramu Uppu
visionisys Inc
Ramu Uppu
visionisys Inc
1
Good, good, good. End H-1B.
1
Read Hillbilly Elegy and tell me who is depicted as too busy feeding off the dole to go to community college and learn new skills, or to even who up for work. (hint: they voted for DT) What an eye opener that book was.
4
NYT readers blast xenophobia and protectionism until their lily-white college grad children have to compete against foreign labor.
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Protectionism is not the answer--if the pay is to low, then make minimum wage rules that all must abide by--if they get free education abroad, then lets give our children free education here--if these employers are willing to use less talented people to fill a position, then that career is going down the tubes anyway.
.
Protectionism is not the answer--if the pay is to low, then make minimum wage rules that all must abide by--if they get free education abroad, then lets give our children free education here--if these employers are willing to use less talented people to fill a position, then that career is going down the tubes anyway.
6
I will be the first to admit that this seems ike a good move.
However, it is all in the details and more importantly, the loopholes.
However, it is all in the details and more importantly, the loopholes.
3
I want to understand why Dippity Doodle isn't held accountable for sending his products to be made in China and don't insult my intelligence by saying he isn't because EVERYONE knows he does it. Can a conservative tell me why you would overlook the fact that this idiot doesn't practice what he preaches?
4
In an interconnected global world, any corporation can hire foreign tech talent without ever having them set foot in the country. The classic example is the Mumbai-based Help Desk worker. Engineers, software writers, bioscientists, etc., etc can share info and work by something as ubiquitous as Skype. While Trump is too stupid to understand that his executive order will only increase such knowledge outsourcing/sharing, it will -- like the rest of reality -- go on in spite of him. The H1-B fuss will gradually diminish because thanks to technology, H1-B's are increasingly unnecessary. Those companies that do need in-person foreign workers will increasingly be prompted to do what they have always done: Move the jobs off-shore. Trump & Co are too stupid to appreciate the hilarous irony in his announcing the order at Snap-On Tool.
And this is why my husband voted for Trump. The H-1 Visa thing. He's been in IT for twenty-eight years. He did his time in the grunt work coding. He now has a high level management position and oversees IT in a company that shall remain nameless, but is very large. He has been disgusted with the games played over (1) the pay scale of H1B visas which undercut American worker salaries; (2) the abuses against H1B visa holders, who are treated as indentured servants; (3) the poor quality AND falsified resumes that come with these H1B visa holders (not all, but a goodly chunk).
He supports specialized visas and is quite happy to brain drain the very best from other countries, but not for your basic coding types.
And why, pray tell, won't Americans compete with these jobs you ask? Well, if the H1Bs lose their jobs, they are kicked right back to their countries. So they get worked slave labor hours and live in rooming houses (yes, a friend of mine rents to a set). And at least here, they have a better chance, after their tour in slave labor, to move forward to a job with better hours and better pay. Of course, H1Bs aren't carrying the devastating student loan debts that Americans do.
But hey, I don't understand why all American manufacturing workers don't want to work at the pennies per hour they pay in Bangladesh!
He supports specialized visas and is quite happy to brain drain the very best from other countries, but not for your basic coding types.
And why, pray tell, won't Americans compete with these jobs you ask? Well, if the H1Bs lose their jobs, they are kicked right back to their countries. So they get worked slave labor hours and live in rooming houses (yes, a friend of mine rents to a set). And at least here, they have a better chance, after their tour in slave labor, to move forward to a job with better hours and better pay. Of course, H1Bs aren't carrying the devastating student loan debts that Americans do.
But hey, I don't understand why all American manufacturing workers don't want to work at the pennies per hour they pay in Bangladesh!
11
An end to coolie labor for Zuckerberg - about time
5
This is the end of American competitiveness. My husband, a PhD in theoretical physics who now works on Wall Street, had a cohort of thirteen in graduate school. Among those thirteen, only three were U.S. citizens (full disclosure, my husband is a green card holder). If the United States wants fewer H1-Bs in tech, we need to do a much better job of preparing and sending our citizens into STEM careers. The sad fact is that the quality isn't there.
9
And my husband, who struggled to pay his way through school while working, holds several patents, and recently received his D.SC. and has worked intimately with may H1B visa holders and Americans would disagree with you.
And if you'd stop and think about it, you'd realize why your comment is illogical. Unless, of course, you assume that the native population of America (filled no doubt with the same ethnicity as your husband) has less intelligence.
And if you'd stop and think about it, you'd realize why your comment is illogical. Unless, of course, you assume that the native population of America (filled no doubt with the same ethnicity as your husband) has less intelligence.
3
"we need to do a much better job of preparing and sending our citizens into STEM careers"
Having jobs available to our new graduates and seasoned workers would be a start. I can't imagine why any young US-born person would want to train for IT work (which is primarily what this is about) if they see their elders being laid off in droves. If there is a shortage, which I doubt, surely it is a wound inflicted by the corporations themselves.
Having jobs available to our new graduates and seasoned workers would be a start. I can't imagine why any young US-born person would want to train for IT work (which is primarily what this is about) if they see their elders being laid off in droves. If there is a shortage, which I doubt, surely it is a wound inflicted by the corporations themselves.
I made an indictment of our shared country and culture, there are just not enough qualified STEM graduates to fill these positions, what are we as a nation going to do to solve this problem?
2
Why did not Trump just take a short jaunt over from Mar-a-Lago to Disneyworld to make this announcement? Disney was one of the most blatent abusers of the H1-B system when they used these people to replace their American IT department.
4
Could it be that after 100 days of disaster Trump may get his presidency back on track? Now for sensible immigration reform and border strengthening.
1
I am a liberal Democrat and I agree with Trump on this one. I also work in IT and have worked with many H1B visa holders. While they are fine people, and do generally good work, many of them do not have exceptional skills. They just work for less in run of the mill IT positions like being an administrator of a database or ERP system. Another benefit is that the Indian universities train students on a specific technology with an eye to a US job. So it's cheaper and easier to hire an already trained H1B who makes 1/3 less and is less likely to leave their job due to the visa.
This has been abused- the rules need to be changed so that truly exceptional people are allowed in and paid market rates.
This has been abused- the rules need to be changed so that truly exceptional people are allowed in and paid market rates.
9
Americans are squeezed from the top and from the bottom by legal and illegal immigrants. The best solution is make college education free so that there will be ample number of Americans available for tech industry to hire without going to foreign countries. Companies hire under H1B visas, not because they are cheap, but because they is a shortage. Those companies that are seeking low cost labor move operation to foreign country. As a country, we need to improve skills even after college graduation, and companies should be less top heavy.
I am looking at this through two lenses. The first is one I got from my daughter who worked in immigration law at the leading firm for immigration in the country. What she saw was rampant abuse and fraud in the H1B system. The other lens is my role as faculty in the College of IT at a US university with 75000 students. As an advocate for my graduating students seeking employment, I saw the damage the H1B system inflicts on US job seekers in the IT sector. The NYT did a good job documenting such abuses at Disney and elsewhere.
I am a disappointed HRC supporter and a lifelong Democrat. Still, I need to give Trump credit for taking a step toward reining in H1B abuse.
I am a disappointed HRC supporter and a lifelong Democrat. Still, I need to give Trump credit for taking a step toward reining in H1B abuse.
11
Finally SOMETHING I can agree with from the Trump administration. I see these H1-B Visa workers at my workplace being made to put in 16-hour workdays, 6 days a week for a very meager salary after they pay most of it to the consulting company that sponsored them. These are high tech indentured servants, all to avoid having to hire someone who a) wants SOME work-life balance and b) may be over age 30.
9
This is what Obama, George W. Bush and Bill Clinton should have done when they first got in office. So many Americans who work in the high technology sector (especially information technology) have been displaced by low-cost technology workers. Further complicating the problem, the outsourcing of IT work from U.S. corporations to India initially then many other foreign countries. The impact on U.S. IT workers was (and still is) devastating.
Its probably too late for me since I've been downsized from information technology jobs repeatably for more than 20 years. There needs to be strict regulations on how H1b is used going forward with strong enforcement, prosecution of company decision-makers and payment of back wages to U.S. citizens displaced by these fraudulent acts.
Its probably too late for me since I've been downsized from information technology jobs repeatably for more than 20 years. There needs to be strict regulations on how H1b is used going forward with strong enforcement, prosecution of company decision-makers and payment of back wages to U.S. citizens displaced by these fraudulent acts.
6
In conjunction with Trump immigration policies, these visa changes will encourage countries to promote their own high tech industries. Not only that but US high tech companies will seek branches in Canada or other countries where foreign born skilled workers would want to emigrate with their families. All of these Trump campaign promises, if implemented, will see Canada in particular, growing into a world leader in AI, IT and robotics.
At first reading this latest executive order does not really have much impact. It seems more like a sop to his voter base in the industrial midwestern states. It is a "please do what I ask" kind of stance by Trump-a
At first reading this latest executive order does not really have much impact. It seems more like a sop to his voter base in the industrial midwestern states. It is a "please do what I ask" kind of stance by Trump-a
1
"“The effect would end up being exactly the opposite of what Trump wants,” he said. “Companies would go offshore, like Microsoft did with Vancouver, Canada,” to seek talent."
Illusory, really We're seeing that anyway. Tech jobs are being constantly phased out here in the US while the company's foreign offices are always hiring. A significant reason for this is that many big customers are now in China--when you start moving production offshore it has a cascading effect. The foreign office gets the positions to be close to the customer.
Illusory, really We're seeing that anyway. Tech jobs are being constantly phased out here in the US while the company's foreign offices are always hiring. A significant reason for this is that many big customers are now in China--when you start moving production offshore it has a cascading effect. The foreign office gets the positions to be close to the customer.
3
Limit the H1-B to people with special skills and pay them a little above market rate (say $120K for a software developer outside of Silicon Valley). The lower end skills can be filled by a lot of US born people. My current gig has a lot of such US born software developers.
I was at one time on a H1-B because my company wanted me to get a Green Card (I came to USA from Canada on a TN-1 visa). They paid for everything and did the paperwork for me to get the GC. I was also making about $200K on an H1-B doing software development in Silicon Valley. This rate was quite a lot higher than the prevailing wage at that time. In my experience I was not taken advantage of by being on H1-B.
I was at one time on a H1-B because my company wanted me to get a Green Card (I came to USA from Canada on a TN-1 visa). They paid for everything and did the paperwork for me to get the GC. I was also making about $200K on an H1-B doing software development in Silicon Valley. This rate was quite a lot higher than the prevailing wage at that time. In my experience I was not taken advantage of by being on H1-B.
1
Really. Does Canada have a H1-B program? Do tell? What are the requirements?
1
As Liam Neeson said, you must have had a unique set of skills. I've been in the S/W development field for over 30 years, and, until you, I've yet to meet a S/W Dev making anywhere near $200k. Good for you.
1
To speak in favor of the H1B program:
I'm (now) a US citizen. I'm a scientist from western Europe who
came to the US on an H1B program. I currently work at a large space-related national research laboratory. Many of my other scientist colleagues also came to the US originally on H1B visas. I fear what the effects may be on US science if H1B visas are tightened in ways that would reduce the flow of world-quality scientists (and artists, writers, business people...) rather than simply ensuring proper application of rules.
I'm (now) a US citizen. I'm a scientist from western Europe who
came to the US on an H1B program. I currently work at a large space-related national research laboratory. Many of my other scientist colleagues also came to the US originally on H1B visas. I fear what the effects may be on US science if H1B visas are tightened in ways that would reduce the flow of world-quality scientists (and artists, writers, business people...) rather than simply ensuring proper application of rules.
Policy makers not only need to restrict these visas, but they must also develop remedies such as how to train more U.S. technology professionals. This will require investment in outreach, advertizing, endowments, scholarships, and more. Perhaps we should begin with an examination of the programs enacted by the developing countries that produce such outstanding technology staffers - what incentives did they create? This doesn't just happen by itself.
U.S. Companies also look to balancing their outsized executive salaries with the need to stabilize costs - that is the highest labor cost these companies have, yet it is never one to which they look to reduce. We need to return more profits to staff over executives, who have fattened themselves extremely for decades.
U.S. Companies also look to balancing their outsized executive salaries with the need to stabilize costs - that is the highest labor cost these companies have, yet it is never one to which they look to reduce. We need to return more profits to staff over executives, who have fattened themselves extremely for decades.
3
As a Canadian, I want to thank Donald Trump for what he has done for the Canadian tech industry. Only last year, things were looking grim with companies like Blackberry struggling to expand into new markets after missteps. Now companies who want to hire the best people will need to open at least a branch office in Canada. I have no idea whether it's a good idea for the US but it's a great idea for Canada.
4
What many reader commentators don't appreciate is that computer jobs are mostly fungible and portable. What H1B workers do in California today, they can do in Bangalore tomorrow. There's no way to stop companies from shifting jobs to where they can be done most cheaply. Sad truth. We would be better off having those workers here in the US, paying taxes and spending their money than abroad.
5
Oh, I appreciate this. My husband and I have both emphasized to our daughter that whatever she studies, she must absolutely search for a career which is difficult to out-source. Whether you love the field or not, any work that can be done remotely is not a safe choice.
1
The 2 H1-B visa indentured servants that worked for me sent most of the money that they received here in America back home. This is another area that PRESIDENT Trump should look into is preventing American currency from leaving America. Most illegals send the money they earn back to Mexico. Earned here, spent somewhere else, buying foreign goods and services. That should stop.
3
In a global economy, labor is just another business expense. Businesses will do whatever they must to keep profits high for their stockholders. They are required to do this by law. If you accept that the global economy is a good thing, you must also accept that hiring the cheapest labor from around the world is also a good thing.
5
Good point. Sad, but true. Get onboard or get left behind...
Just taking one profession for example. Maybe if hospitals raised the salaries or set up a program to pay tuitions in exchange for a timed service period the profession would encourage more Americans to become nurses. The hospitals could well afford to do this but charging every patient 20.00 for every aspirin given and other outrageous fees seems to be more important as is searching for anyone from anywhere regardless of the talent right in front of them.
1
How about a policy that tax the companies based on the percentage of American workforce? Companies with more American workforce get better tax cuts.
1
For highly-skilled tech workers, it's not a matter of foreign workers displacing American workers. Tech companies are _desperate_ for talent, and pay exceptional wages for those who fit. There simply aren't enough Americans who fulfill their requirements. All locking out high-skill foreign tech workers does is decrease American productivity.
2
Select the best candidate through a rigorous process for a high skilled worker and grant him or her green card through an expedited process(mandatory Bachelor's degree in Computer science, standard tests in software and verbal interviews). End the H1B program altogether! This process will ensure that only talented and qualified engineers are hired by US companies by eliminating the "green card" loophole. H1B program is abused by sponsoring employers as H1B worker, who is more than likely to immigrate US via green card, can't work for any other employer by law; he will continue to work for same employer until he gets his green card (it takes 6-10 years to get green card approved). The lengthy process and worker's inability to switch jobs during that period keeps up the abuse - employer will keep paying lower wages and not look for alternative worker(i.e. American worker). Or raise the minimum H1B wage from $60000 to $125000 and companies will have no motivation to use the H1B system!
1
I disagree with the notion that we need foreign workers because there isn't enough highly skilled workers in the U.S. I have a CS degree and have worked in the IT field for a long time and many of the foreign workers that I've dealt with have exaggerated their skills or have lied about their education. Even some who can do their jobs will lack communications, social or people skills making them not as productive as U.S. workers. And, I find many male foreign workers not able to deal with women very effectively.
9
This is a horribly abused program. If the government were just willing to rigorously enforce the rules (mainly commensurate pay and a clear lack of local qualified resources) it would work. Given that they are not willing to enforce the rules then I fully support changing it. Being able to bring in someone from offshore into our nation and forcing them to work as almost indentured servants at 1/3 of the pay of US citizens is wrong, both for the US workers and the visa holders and is not how the program is supposed to work.
5
I am an EE and I support Trump on this. It is a valid notion that this will motivate more US students to enter STEM fields. Reining in the visas abuse will cause some pain in the short term due to a lag in supply, but if coupled with lowered education cost the supply should return to meet demand.
3
I want to be clear at the outset that no one should blame the skilled foreign workers who come here via the H1B visa program: most of my IT colleagues --who make up a large percentage of my friends-- are from other countries. They came here seeking a better life and have worked hard for their success. Most have become US citizens and the rest have green cards.
However I have also seen large IT consulting companies abuse the program to bring over cheaper professionals to replace American workers.
In 2012 a previous client brought me back to do some IT work. When I had last consulted there in 2008 they had the best functioning IT department I had ever worked with, but I learned that in the meantime they had outsourced most of the department to one of the best known of the IT consulting companies. Historically in such transactions the consulting company would absorb all or most of the existing personnel, but in this case the company simply brought in their own personnel from another country.
These folks were friendly and competent and I have nothing bad to say about them, but their company brought them over in 2009, at the height of the great recession, when unemployment was at 10% and would stay there for another year. The people they replaced had been doing largely the same work as their replacements --the talent was already there.
This is one of several examples I've encountered where the giant IT companies have used the program to use cheaper labor.
However I have also seen large IT consulting companies abuse the program to bring over cheaper professionals to replace American workers.
In 2012 a previous client brought me back to do some IT work. When I had last consulted there in 2008 they had the best functioning IT department I had ever worked with, but I learned that in the meantime they had outsourced most of the department to one of the best known of the IT consulting companies. Historically in such transactions the consulting company would absorb all or most of the existing personnel, but in this case the company simply brought in their own personnel from another country.
These folks were friendly and competent and I have nothing bad to say about them, but their company brought them over in 2009, at the height of the great recession, when unemployment was at 10% and would stay there for another year. The people they replaced had been doing largely the same work as their replacements --the talent was already there.
This is one of several examples I've encountered where the giant IT companies have used the program to use cheaper labor.
7
Any often overlooked abuser of the H1B program is the universities. They are exempt from the H1B cap. As a result they hire STEM PhDs, postdocs, research associates, clinicians, nurses at much lower salaries and essentially lock American STEM scientitists and would-be STEM scientists out of entry level positions.
Ironically the low payments of NIH and NSF and similar funding agencies force researchers to stretch their grant dollars by hiring these folks. Some H1B workers make it to permanent jobs. However these workers hire their countrymen. Hence it has become a vicious cycle whereby the government is essentially pushing young American scientists out of science.
Unfortunately, Mr. Trump will not have an impact on the STEM workforce, since he proposes slashing research funding. Hence universities will have to rely more heavily on H1B STEM workers willing to accept peanuts.
Ironically the low payments of NIH and NSF and similar funding agencies force researchers to stretch their grant dollars by hiring these folks. Some H1B workers make it to permanent jobs. However these workers hire their countrymen. Hence it has become a vicious cycle whereby the government is essentially pushing young American scientists out of science.
Unfortunately, Mr. Trump will not have an impact on the STEM workforce, since he proposes slashing research funding. Hence universities will have to rely more heavily on H1B STEM workers willing to accept peanuts.
6
Tech companies falsely claim that Americans are under qualified so they can bring in H1Bs to depress the wage of workers by normalizing a Masters as a requirement for basic entry level work. The current H1B program allows you to bring in people that have little ability to ask for promotions and raises, and who cannot refuse off-the-clock work.
I 100% support Trump in altering or ending the H1B program as it currently stands. Companies should be required to pay H1B workers 10% more than the average employee at the company for the area that the worker would reside.
I 100% support Trump in altering or ending the H1B program as it currently stands. Companies should be required to pay H1B workers 10% more than the average employee at the company for the area that the worker would reside.
4
I trust that this "discouragement" will extend to the foreign workers Eric Trump wants to hire for his VA vineyard. And staff in the Trump resorts. Etc. Etc.
4
I'm sure Trump supporters will rejoice, having ignored the fine print that nothing prohibits American companies from simply opening up high-tech divisions offshore and thereby skirting the short-sighted executive order.
1
On the one hand we bash science and scientists. On the other we fret for our competitiveness. We have blamed teachers for students' lack of achievement. We practice anti-intellectualism. We speak in broken, incoherent sentences. Rude pop culture seemingly disclaims STEM. Government has devalued and de-funded human resource development.
Meanwhile, India, China and Europe are investing in the intellectual capacity of their citizens.
We can jump up and down and saber rattle, preach opposition to reality and scientific inquiry, but the reality remains that the future belongs to intellectual ability. It always has and always will. If tech can't operate here, it will go over there.
Meanwhile, India, China and Europe are investing in the intellectual capacity of their citizens.
We can jump up and down and saber rattle, preach opposition to reality and scientific inquiry, but the reality remains that the future belongs to intellectual ability. It always has and always will. If tech can't operate here, it will go over there.
8
I am working currently in US legally on H1B. I read through the comments and most of them are targeting us. Let me clarify you something, why companies are hiring foreign workers and realize the system in place. Almost every known company is listed in stock market's and the values of their shares are determined by the value it gets traded. Now, with most of the shares being with the founder / top executives of the company, their net worth is determined based on the value of the shares again. Coming to the point, a companies quarterly profit and their consecutive growth determines the value of the share. For every consecutive quarter, the companies financial team are forced to show profit. Obviously, they will look at cost cutting measures and one among those is outsourcing & looking for cheaper labor. You might abuse Indians now. But tomorrow, someone else would come to replace us on much cheaper labor. Unless the system changes, there is nothing much you can do to increase jobs. Personally, i have filed patent here in US, released an Novel in Amazon and needless to say that i pay for all my expenses like Rent, Utilities, Legal documentation, Medical, Social, Federal, etc for me and my family. I am working for 15 years and updating my skills regularly to survive. And yes, if i get kicked out, i would obey what the law says..
6
Few people here actually blame our honorable Indian friends for taking advantages of these opportunities. Young guys, in particular, find it exciting to come to the US and live here for a while. It's the chance to get started in a good career, and see the world.
Of course, people don't like the complete incompetents who can't do the work. I remember one guy who claimed to be an Oracle Application DBA who was always pinging me for advice on how to get some Oracle product installed or configured - and I was supposedly an application developer. I ended up researching his problems in the Oracle installation manuals and explaining to him what he was doing wrong.
Of course, people don't like the complete incompetents who can't do the work. I remember one guy who claimed to be an Oracle Application DBA who was always pinging me for advice on how to get some Oracle product installed or configured - and I was supposedly an application developer. I ended up researching his problems in the Oracle installation manuals and explaining to him what he was doing wrong.
4
It's great when the President stands up to be counted for his people and opposes their sufferings.
1
Corporate abuses of the H-1B program are well documented. While Trump might not be the perfect messenger to deliver the message, the alternative is to wait until the left addresses H-1B abuse. Far from curbing any well known problems with the H-1B program, democratic candidates are actively looking to expand it.
2
H1B program is completely misused by every company irrespective of its revenue or its presence ie number of offices or one company own other companies. Every single petition must be investigated onsite to stop future fraud.
F1 and fake universities also to be investigated to stop overflow of inefficient students.
But question is political parties funded by different organizations. I don't think these issues can be stopped.
Let us see..Trump will end all kinds of fraud or corruption as promised.
Issuing thousands of green card and citizenship is also not correct. First provide employment to present green card and citizens. Not only that it becoming huge burden to government to provide freebies to each and every new citizen or green card. Lots of people make money on cash but they are poor on government records.
F1 and fake universities also to be investigated to stop overflow of inefficient students.
But question is political parties funded by different organizations. I don't think these issues can be stopped.
Let us see..Trump will end all kinds of fraud or corruption as promised.
Issuing thousands of green card and citizenship is also not correct. First provide employment to present green card and citizens. Not only that it becoming huge burden to government to provide freebies to each and every new citizen or green card. Lots of people make money on cash but they are poor on government records.
1
Allowing American technology companies to hire foreign workers not only denies U.S. citizens high tech employment and training but undermines national security. As recent political events have shown, the international conflicts of tomorrow will be increasing fought in the digital realms of cyberspace, not on battlefields. President Trump's firing of cruise missiles into Syria could not have taken place without highly trained and skilled U.S. Armed Services personnel.
If American leaders allow the civilian sector to further degrade American military and commercial competitiveness by permitting technology companies to outsource technology infrastructure to foreign nationals soon America's impressive military strength will be dependent on foreign nationals who may not be available to support its vital mission of national defense.
The foreign visa program should be changed to require American based technology companies to pay a special federal payroll tax equivalent to 100% of the salary and benefits paid to foreign technology workers. These new tax revenues should be exclusively allocated to a special training fund to Americans seeking technology skills. Alternatively for every foreign national hired an American citizen must be hired and trained to assume the underlying job within 2 -3 years.
If American leaders allow the civilian sector to further degrade American military and commercial competitiveness by permitting technology companies to outsource technology infrastructure to foreign nationals soon America's impressive military strength will be dependent on foreign nationals who may not be available to support its vital mission of national defense.
The foreign visa program should be changed to require American based technology companies to pay a special federal payroll tax equivalent to 100% of the salary and benefits paid to foreign technology workers. These new tax revenues should be exclusively allocated to a special training fund to Americans seeking technology skills. Alternatively for every foreign national hired an American citizen must be hired and trained to assume the underlying job within 2 -3 years.
2
Will this be before or after his winery has hired all of their foreign workers?
3
Curbs on H1B VISA are OK.
1) But, at the same time he has to make sure that the so called "American" companies are not moving jobs along with the whole departments to India, China, Taiwan and other countries.
2) Need to curb the H1B VISA misuse by lots of real and bogus Indian companies and the other companies, by bringing useless people to the USA.
1) But, at the same time he has to make sure that the so called "American" companies are not moving jobs along with the whole departments to India, China, Taiwan and other countries.
2) Need to curb the H1B VISA misuse by lots of real and bogus Indian companies and the other companies, by bringing useless people to the USA.
2
This is one on which I support Trump. While I can't talk from experience about the other professions, the H1B program for IT "specialists", and its equivalents in Europe, is a sham that has destroyed a generation of IT practitioners. I'm OK with bringing in really top notch people with outstanding PhDs, say and from who we can learn; it's not OK to lay off entire IT departments and replace them with newcomers on slave-wage contracts.
Thank goodness. I've worked in the software business for 20 years. The H1-B is so abused. We get calls all the time from Indian outsourcing companies who have monopolized these visas. They recommend we fire American workers and replace them with cheaper Indian temporary workers to save money. These workers are not highly skilled nor do they have hard-to-find talents. It's purely a cost move that enriches a few Indian outsourcing companies like Tata and big US tech firms.
an aspect of h-1b abuse that is not being highlighted is the role played by small body shops\visa farms\staffing copmpanies that have been setup in US by by people who came to US on h1b. with the abundance of h-1b applicants, US corporations do not want to hire full time employees but imstead want to hire temporary contract workers. To cater to this need, there have been a lot of small body shop companies that have been setup as LLC companies by h-1b people. These body shops have no respect for law and abuse the system. Unless these small body shops are shut down, the h1b abuse will not end. unfortunately everytime the discussion of h-1b comes up, it is only the big outsourcing companies that are being mentioned regarding the h-1b abuse, but nobody is talking about these small body shops who are filing thousands of h-1b visas each year. these body shops are escaping scrutiny and there is no mention about them. each body shop holds 20 to 100 h1b visas each. there are over 5000 such body shops!!! holding hundreds of thousands of h-1b visas and filing more h1b visas each year.
You should see the ones in New Jersey. Evidently, they studied with Tony Soprano, and take the idea of 'body shop' rather literally.
I once met an escaped H1B who was working as a parking lot attendant. He explained his body shop wanted to have him deported, so he had to go underground.
I once met an escaped H1B who was working as a parking lot attendant. He explained his body shop wanted to have him deported, so he had to go underground.
2
Problem is, American medical schools don't train enough MDs to quickly replace the ten thousand doctors who are on H1 visas. They tend to work in Trump country, which once again shoots itself in the foot.
2
OH, that;s cute, with Trump's foreign workers at
Mar a Logo filling as big a percentage of such as they did on his
construction sites.
This is like the part where we're suppose to buy American and
Ivanca Trump gets three more brands for making and buying
in China. While sitting in her big office in the WhiteHouse and after
being invited to sup with the Chinese president last week. White House
residency for the Trumps is just a money grubbing matter.
Mar a Logo filling as big a percentage of such as they did on his
construction sites.
This is like the part where we're suppose to buy American and
Ivanca Trump gets three more brands for making and buying
in China. While sitting in her big office in the WhiteHouse and after
being invited to sup with the Chinese president last week. White House
residency for the Trumps is just a money grubbing matter.
11
Trump always seems careful to word these immigration changes to avoid affecting his businesses and those of his family. Trump has low-wage foreign workers at Mar-a-Largo and his sons are trying to get more foreign workers to pick grapes for their vineyard and winery in Virginia.
10
Agree!!
And his wife used one of those H1-B visas.
2
We came here 20 years ago on an H1B, and my husband (the H1B candidate) left school at 16 and never even went to full time college - he did an industrial apprenticeship (remember those?) after leaving school, with once per week day release classes at the UK equivalent of a community college. What he did have though was 20+ years of solid industry experience in operating, maintaining, supporting, and interpreting data from, sonars. A very specialized subject and at that time highly in demand from the offshore oil industry, for ocean search and survey etc.
It isn't always about academic qualifications, and if the US decides that only PhDs need apply, we (we are now citizens) may miss out on people with quite unique skill sets. Ironically, when we came here, I was (on paper at least) much more qualified than he was. And I couldn't even get a work permit until 4 years went by and we got Green Cards.
One other point; I totally agree with another commentator who said that highly qualified people in the US are saddled with enormous college related debt and require bigger salaries to help service that debt. I left college in my early 20s in Europe with zero debt. Even today most grads from Europe and other places have much less debt than their US cohort. Not surprising that they will work for less.
It isn't always about academic qualifications, and if the US decides that only PhDs need apply, we (we are now citizens) may miss out on people with quite unique skill sets. Ironically, when we came here, I was (on paper at least) much more qualified than he was. And I couldn't even get a work permit until 4 years went by and we got Green Cards.
One other point; I totally agree with another commentator who said that highly qualified people in the US are saddled with enormous college related debt and require bigger salaries to help service that debt. I left college in my early 20s in Europe with zero debt. Even today most grads from Europe and other places have much less debt than their US cohort. Not surprising that they will work for less.
46
How much do professors get paid in Europe vs. their American counterparts? There was a time when being a college professor didn't mean wealth and guaranteed employment no matter what. The education system has boosted its own standard of living and we can see from where the money is coming. Meanwhile Harvard to cite just one example sits on an endowment fund way over a billion dollars.
1
I am an American citizen with a Ph.D. and with over 20 years of IT experience. Currently H1b/L1 visas are grossly abused by IT companies. If we want to stop the abuse of H1b/L1 visas, I would suggest the following, 1) STOP L1 visa program completely 2) If some company really needs H1b from a foreign country, make them pay at least 150K/per annum salary 3) Once stricter rules are in place, Companies will increase the outsourcing of IT jobs. In order to counter that, companies must be forced to pay into
some US program to "Hire and Train Americans Fund", every dollar the company saves by outsourcing the job. This way company will not save any money by outsourcing the job, instead they will find and hire American workers!
Almost all of IT consulting companies like Accenture, Infosys, WIPRO, .. etc keep less than 10% of the jobs locally (in USA), while 90% of the work is done in India! Even the 10% of the jobs they keep locally, goes to H1bs most often! What an Unfair deal for American IT workers. This MUST be stopped. They should be forced to do 100% of the jobs locally hiring Americans!
What happens is that Accenture, HP, etc will get a billion dollar IT contract and they outsource it to some smaller IT companies full of H1b and L1 visa holders. Therefore, the actual work is done by H1bs and L1s! Americans do not stand a chance.
some US program to "Hire and Train Americans Fund", every dollar the company saves by outsourcing the job. This way company will not save any money by outsourcing the job, instead they will find and hire American workers!
Almost all of IT consulting companies like Accenture, Infosys, WIPRO, .. etc keep less than 10% of the jobs locally (in USA), while 90% of the work is done in India! Even the 10% of the jobs they keep locally, goes to H1bs most often! What an Unfair deal for American IT workers. This MUST be stopped. They should be forced to do 100% of the jobs locally hiring Americans!
What happens is that Accenture, HP, etc will get a billion dollar IT contract and they outsource it to some smaller IT companies full of H1b and L1 visa holders. Therefore, the actual work is done by H1bs and L1s! Americans do not stand a chance.
32
Last year I taught a class to a high tech group in Portland, Oregon. Half the class were professionals from India. They are better educated and presumably willing to work for less than their American counterparts. This country needs to return to a time like the 1950s-60s when we provided a high quality education at an affordable price. We are falling behind other countries such as India and China in the quality (and certainly affordability) of our education system. This will lead to decreased American innovation and further outsourcing of high tech jobs. Limiting of H1B visas just means that American companies will have a harder time competing against foreign companies with better educated workforces.
31
I dare say you have never been to India or China. American tertiary education is second to none. It can be as could as it gets. No, H1B is just like illegal immigration, cheap labour for more profits, resulting in lower middle class incomes.
2
Overall I agree with you, especially about affordability. But no one seems to be mentioning the unmentionable: STEM fields are hard. If you are smart and well-prepared, you can make more money in finance than engineering and "ordinary" software development ("ordinary" meaning the bread-and-butter IT jobs we bring people in for). And if you don't want to work that hard there are alternative careers. This is why we have a shortage of qualified STEM graduates. You can say "buy American" all you want, but there are not enough Americans to buy.
All this will do is accelerate the offshoring of these jobs. Again, the bread-and-butter tech jobs that are good to have in your community but don't require you to be a genius. They might be held by foreign workers now, but at least that worker buys homes, cars, clothes, movies, etc. and contributes to the community here. Offshore those jobs and all that goes away. And it is never coming back.
All this will do is accelerate the offshoring of these jobs. Again, the bread-and-butter tech jobs that are good to have in your community but don't require you to be a genius. They might be held by foreign workers now, but at least that worker buys homes, cars, clothes, movies, etc. and contributes to the community here. Offshore those jobs and all that goes away. And it is never coming back.
2
The college education system has followed politics into a land of lifetime employment, high pay and benefits, and no responsibility for the outcomes. In fact many of the college profs seem to think their positions are political as they work to indoctrinate their students.
1
I see that there are many types of H1B visas, some more noxious than others, in terms of hire American, so let us enforce such, with awareness of the differences.
Whether this makes things worse, will only be known by the doing.
I see that those opposed have no even peripheral empirical data.
= =
Twould Be A Good Thing, if Mr Trump also enforced the over-staying of visas, the 9/11 hijackers had over stayed their visas, some of them.
'course he can't do it all, 100 days are shorter now than in FDR's time, or so it seems;
but the reality and symbolism of law enforcement in one domain extends to others.
Visa holders and violators are, nominally known to our Organs of State Security, although under the Obama years those existed mostly to harass the Right;
but visas have host countries associated, and new visas could and should be held hostage to the old ones.
I've also long held, that visa holders should have wages escrowed until they leave our country
Whether this makes things worse, will only be known by the doing.
I see that those opposed have no even peripheral empirical data.
= =
Twould Be A Good Thing, if Mr Trump also enforced the over-staying of visas, the 9/11 hijackers had over stayed their visas, some of them.
'course he can't do it all, 100 days are shorter now than in FDR's time, or so it seems;
but the reality and symbolism of law enforcement in one domain extends to others.
Visa holders and violators are, nominally known to our Organs of State Security, although under the Obama years those existed mostly to harass the Right;
but visas have host countries associated, and new visas could and should be held hostage to the old ones.
I've also long held, that visa holders should have wages escrowed until they leave our country
2
Those of you who support Trump on this, why doesn't he have his clothing and building materials produced in the US?
Those jobs could certainly use American workers instead of the tech engineers that we don't have enough of.
Those jobs could certainly use American workers instead of the tech engineers that we don't have enough of.
11
You miss the point. "We don't have tech workers" is a misnomer. We have plenty of tech workers who got laid off and replaced by someone overseas, and once out of the market for a year find it almost impossible to get hired. Those people could easily catch up and become productive much faster than training an H-1B visa holder with limited experience, but companies assume they save more by hiring from overseas. There is also a lot of age discrimination that goes along with this.
2
You can't "keep your doctor" when they can't stay in the country.
8
In my specific field of technology, H-1B holders are mandated to be paid the same as similarly qualified U.S. citizens. So they are employed not to cut costs (as is frequently suggested), but because they each have unique individual training or talent that is not available in the U.S. pool, but is essential for the project. Forcing them to be replaced with lesser qualified U.S. citizens will of course employ those citizens, of course, but at what cost? The goals of technology projects in my field will take longer to achieve if they are achieved at all. The new inventions and new companies that would employ many U.S. citizens in the future will not be created.
8
What a shame that Tech companies like Facebook, Google and Microsoft cannot replace their American workers with cheaper less competent workers from India. Perhaps Goldman is down because Wall Street firms which have almost zero Americans in their Technology and Research areas will be forced to hire better qualified but also hire paid Americans. So there are quite a few company losers who can no longer depend on cheap labor who are then trained by the American they are replacing (or else the laid-off American will not receive severance). The only winners, the American High-Tech, Finance worker.
9
So Free Market Principles are now Too Free or not Free Enough?
6
Where are the Americans who are willing to do grunt work, whether writing code or picking tomatoes?
Require that all be provided health benefits, so benefits are not the issue.
Then it boils down to whether someone is willing to do the work for competitive pay. If it's beneath their dignity to do the work, then no job is exactly being taken away from them.
Americans like to be the boss. They don't like to do the grunt work. Before Lehmann Brothers went under, you could see this self-sorting: the floors with all the quants and PhDs were European and Asian; the floors with all the salespeople were American.
Require that all be provided health benefits, so benefits are not the issue.
Then it boils down to whether someone is willing to do the work for competitive pay. If it's beneath their dignity to do the work, then no job is exactly being taken away from them.
Americans like to be the boss. They don't like to do the grunt work. Before Lehmann Brothers went under, you could see this self-sorting: the floors with all the quants and PhDs were European and Asian; the floors with all the salespeople were American.
5
Great. Hillary would have made sure to expand H-1B visas, so what Trump just did is actually a really awesome thing. Ive heard so many stories of people having to train their H-1B replacements, which just seems to be the epitome of corporate evil. I hope this program is ended.
15
Trump is up against a wall, as is any other American who wants to support the cost of American labor. The trouble is that it is more expensive to be an American than it is to be (for example) an Indian or Chinese. As so many have pointed out, the companies will just offshore the jobs instead of hiring Americans, who require more money to pay their higher rents and mortgages.
That is Trump's second dilemma; he's primary a landlord who profits from housing inflation. It has saved his bacon several times as he overextended, then put off creditors until inflation improved his cash flow.
A truly free market in labor and housing would cause American housing to depreciate as competition forces down wages to the levels of our competitors. However that would break the banks, and leveraged landlords like Trump. That's what 2008 was really about; the market tried, but the government spent a trillion dollars or so preventing it from happening. Our housing is still more expensive than our competitors, and our workers require more money to support it. It's a bubble.
That is Trump's second dilemma; he's primary a landlord who profits from housing inflation. It has saved his bacon several times as he overextended, then put off creditors until inflation improved his cash flow.
A truly free market in labor and housing would cause American housing to depreciate as competition forces down wages to the levels of our competitors. However that would break the banks, and leveraged landlords like Trump. That's what 2008 was really about; the market tried, but the government spent a trillion dollars or so preventing it from happening. Our housing is still more expensive than our competitors, and our workers require more money to support it. It's a bubble.
2
The reason WHY the US isn’t producing enough new tech workers is because of the H1B program. American college students are discouraged from going into a STEM field because they must compete with foreign workers for jobs upon graduation. So, basically the H1B program and the myth of a skills gap have made a worker shortage in tech a self-fulfilling prophecy. Just this week Boeing announced another round of layoffs of hundreds of engineers. If there was really a tech worker shortage in the United States, these people would be coveted and wouldn’t have any trouble finding new jobs. But, they will have trouble. It will take a long time for those workers to find jobs that pay similar to there old jobs at Boeing.
22
This is one thing I agree with Trump on. In my plant, older very experienced engineers were laid off, replaced by Indian engineers (then sometimes hire back as contractors without benefits) because the Indians didn't know what they were doing. The simplest way to deal with illegal immigrants is to employ e-verify and fine or jail anyone who employs illegals.
32
"The simplest way to deal with illegal immigrants is to employ e-verify and fine or jail anyone who employs illegals."
These are not illegal immigrants.
These are not illegal immigrants.
1
When you say "competitive", I think you mean "artificially suppressed". That sounds like a code word used by CEOs and industry lobbyists.
Wages in IT have been flat for 16 years, a direct result of the H-1b visa. Without the use of immigration policy to manipulate IT wages to make rich CEOs even richer, wages would have risen during that time, as they do in non-manipulated professions, to keep pace with inflation.
Instead, the flood of H-1b labor has squashed wages. H-1b created a crooked playing field for American IT talent. That's exactly what the CEOS wanted.
Now that Trump is about to revert the IT labor market back to its normal state, it will become a legitimate, non-rigged profession for America's young people. Till now they've been too smart to pay $$$,$$$ to get a STEM education, only to see the jobs reserved for Indian H-1bs. Now America's young (and not young) people will do what they did before the H-1b invasion - set the global standard in IT.
Wages in IT have been flat for 16 years, a direct result of the H-1b visa. Without the use of immigration policy to manipulate IT wages to make rich CEOs even richer, wages would have risen during that time, as they do in non-manipulated professions, to keep pace with inflation.
Instead, the flood of H-1b labor has squashed wages. H-1b created a crooked playing field for American IT talent. That's exactly what the CEOS wanted.
Now that Trump is about to revert the IT labor market back to its normal state, it will become a legitimate, non-rigged profession for America's young people. Till now they've been too smart to pay $$$,$$$ to get a STEM education, only to see the jobs reserved for Indian H-1bs. Now America's young (and not young) people will do what they did before the H-1b invasion - set the global standard in IT.
1
What does the H1B program hav eto do with illegal immigrants?
1
There is no such thing as a 'lack of skilled labor'; there is only a lack of skilled labor *at a wage companies are willing to pay*. If you can't find someone willing to work for you, you raise how much money you are offering until someone is willing to come work for you. People will start getting trained in that field to make the higher wage. I think the most ridiculous 'lack of skilled labor' I've heard of was interstate truck drivers. If you offered a decent wage, then people would start training to be truck drivers.
H-1B visas are more for "I need a Nobel-prize winning engineer" than "I need a Java programmer". There's tons of Java programmers out there, there's no shortage of them... Unless you only want to pay much less than the existing Java programmers make.
H-1B visas are more for "I need a Nobel-prize winning engineer" than "I need a Java programmer". There's tons of Java programmers out there, there's no shortage of them... Unless you only want to pay much less than the existing Java programmers make.
42
Excellent. Coal miners and factory workers just need to move to Silicon Valley where jobs will await them. Problem solved.
11
WalMart,....I'm coming to get you (next).
Cutting back the numbers of H-1Bs a few years ago gave a big boost to offshore IT centers. Whatever it is that Trump's new executive order contains, it will be another boost for the development of Canada, Australia, India, China and others. American IT workers whose companies give up on developing in the US can try for all those jobs in coal Trump has promised.
6
If no one in the US has a job, then no one in the US will be able to go to Disney. Or buy a Pepsi or Unilever or Colgate product, or pay their Eversource bill. . The concept of well, companies will just move the jobs off shore is lazy and specious. How about we stop giving tax subsidies to these companies who are happy to sell to us but refuse to hire us?
2
The idea that we must go outside the country to find workers with certain skills is nauseating. We have untapped talent in the middle of this country that gets ignored. When the big research universities recruit poor/under-privileged kids to improve their "diversity" they go to schools in coastal inner cities. They don't go to West Virginia. This is a huge problem.
15
The untapped talent in the middle of the country is busy tapping coal or at least that remains their dream occupation post unemployment, post Trump. Not exactly the sort of skills required in technology sector.
"Rolling coal" is not a skillset.
"Rolling coal" is not a skillset.
9
That's false. Schools desire geographical diversity and seek students from out of the way places. And is there any evidence that the talent in the "middle of the country" is some how untapped?
There are numerous numerical "teeth" the government could put into place to effectively enforce this visa program while still allowing companies to bring elite foreign talent to the United States:
1. Visa holder must hold a post-graduate degree from an accredited US university
2. Visa holder must have an annual base salary greater than the Social Security Wage Base ($127,200 in 2017)
3. Visa holder must be an employee of the employer (i.e., no contract employees)
4. The number of visa holders of the employer, on a controlled group basis, may not exceed 2% of the number of employer's Highly Compensated Employees (this is a defined term under Section 414 of the Internal Revenue Code) with a minimum of 1 visa holder. A company like Microsoft, with over 60k employees, would have no more than 12k HCEs so they could employ a maximum of 240 visa holders. Any company with a 401(k) plan knows precisely how many HCEs they employee.
Putting hard and fast number limits on employers would still allow them to bring in the critical foreign talent they claim they need while preventing them from gaming the system at American citizens' expense.
1. Visa holder must hold a post-graduate degree from an accredited US university
2. Visa holder must have an annual base salary greater than the Social Security Wage Base ($127,200 in 2017)
3. Visa holder must be an employee of the employer (i.e., no contract employees)
4. The number of visa holders of the employer, on a controlled group basis, may not exceed 2% of the number of employer's Highly Compensated Employees (this is a defined term under Section 414 of the Internal Revenue Code) with a minimum of 1 visa holder. A company like Microsoft, with over 60k employees, would have no more than 12k HCEs so they could employ a maximum of 240 visa holders. Any company with a 401(k) plan knows precisely how many HCEs they employee.
Putting hard and fast number limits on employers would still allow them to bring in the critical foreign talent they claim they need while preventing them from gaming the system at American citizens' expense.
27
This is great news indeed!
Hire Americans first and if a foreigner is need then companies should be forced to pay 1.5x or even 2x the amount of an american worker if their truly is a shortage.
You'll see how quickly those positions are filled by Americans.
Hire Americans first and if a foreigner is need then companies should be forced to pay 1.5x or even 2x the amount of an american worker if their truly is a shortage.
You'll see how quickly those positions are filled by Americans.
23
The U.S. simply doesn't produce enough STEM grads to fill the jobs US companies are advertising. We would have to exponentially expand our pipeline of qualified graduates.
To keep these jobs in the US we need to graduate more qualified programmers. In the meantime, we need foreign workers. H1B visas help keep US companies competitive. They do not steal jobs from qualified US citizens -- there aren't enough qualified US citizens. Don't blame foreign workers for helping keep our tech companies growing.
To keep these jobs in the US we need to graduate more qualified programmers. In the meantime, we need foreign workers. H1B visas help keep US companies competitive. They do not steal jobs from qualified US citizens -- there aren't enough qualified US citizens. Don't blame foreign workers for helping keep our tech companies growing.
13
Prove it. I have heard this 'said' many times and have never seen any evidence. I do not accept information put out by the corporations who directly benefit from hiring lower wage workers. If the 'need' is real, then why not hire them at 'prevailing wage' and provide normal benefits? If the 'need' is so great, wouldn't you think the wage/benefits would reflect that?
There are plenty of tech workers who cannot find jobs because they were out of the workforce due to the recession, and they tend to be older. Is it better for America to bring in young untrained cheap labor from overseas rather than hiring experienced professionals who just need a break? If those workers stay and actually have a work ethic (this is somewhat debatable), that's fine. If they leave and work for US competitors after getting trained, how does that work out for society. Older workers will typically be more reliable and grateful to have a job. And yes they can do the same work.
2
That's an industry lie. There are more than enough people graduating with STEM degrees. Many don't ever get to work in IT because the jobs are reserved for Indians on H-1bs.
1
Hopefully Brown Gravy is next? And encourage White Gravy's usage.
I've seen it replace White Gravy too often and I'm certain more times than not it was cheaper Gravy.
I've seen it replace White Gravy too often and I'm certain more times than not it was cheaper Gravy.
3
Interesting to see how this will play out, because it is not a free market policy. And while the majority of commenters focus on HB1 recipients, technically this will probably also net those workers who do construction and agriculture--you know, those jobs picking crops that Americans are so desperate to have.
Actually, Alabama passed some very harsh laws quite similar to this in 2009 or so, and it hit agriculture hard and didn't greatly diminish the number of Hispanics (whom they were targeting) in the end. The national plan is similar, and has Sessions' fingerprints all over it.
Actually, Alabama passed some very harsh laws quite similar to this in 2009 or so, and it hit agriculture hard and didn't greatly diminish the number of Hispanics (whom they were targeting) in the end. The national plan is similar, and has Sessions' fingerprints all over it.
19
There are no construction workers or agricultural workers with H1B visas. None.
2
If Alabama farmers need near-slave labor in order to turn a profit, then their business model is wrong and they should automate or shut down that farm.
We survived slavery, we can survive the end of cheap desperate labor.
We survived slavery, we can survive the end of cheap desperate labor.
2
These people will still be used, only they will have to stay in India and get paid lower wages. My brother is in the computer feed and he always had to Skype his subordinates in India at odd times of the night.
But I have heard some real horror stories about specific Americans losing their jobs and even have to train the people who took their jobs because they don't know how to do the stuff. Once three people were hired to replace a single woman. SAD.
But I have heard some real horror stories about specific Americans losing their jobs and even have to train the people who took their jobs because they don't know how to do the stuff. Once three people were hired to replace a single woman. SAD.
9
The thing is that those three people still make a ton less than the single woman. They make about $2K a year for tech jobs and those are highly-desirable.
4
@wilsonc - The pay for a tech job in India is about 50-60% of the US pay. So if a job pays $120K in the US, it will pay $60-70K in India. The days of the ultra-cheap programmer ended decades ago.
1
I currently work with a lot of H1B visas both on shore and off shore. What I'm concerned about is, if this program scaled back then companies will just off shore everything possible, leaving a few middle level managers here and very few American IT workers.
9
Several people have said this - doesn't that just prove that H1b's are just about paying lower wages and no benefits? What adds to the difficulty of so-called immigrant issues is that corporations and uber-rich are usually driving the laws. Nice people are trying to deal with the humanity of immigration, when pretty much only those in sky-scraper board rooms make the decisions.
There are, unfortunately, so many problems with the H1B visa system. For some professions, particularly medical and advanced technologies, there really is a need for foreign workers because the US simply does not produce enough. As many readers have pointed out, there is simply a shortage of physicians around the US. Many H1B holders who are physicians tend to go to rural places that are in need of doctors. Similarly, the US has a shortage of advanced STEM PhD holders. US citizens are just not as likely as foreign students to get a PhD in STEM. Foreign students now account for ~40 percent of all STEM PhDs granted by US institutions, a number that has nearly doubled over the last three decades. If all of these students went back to their home countries, the US would definitely have a shortage of highly-skilled talent.
On the other side, there are so many H1B workers who are not highly skilled that it definitely seems that US companies are using this loop hole to hire cheap labor. For example, Disney firing all of its technicians just to bring all new ones in from India under the H1B. That type of situation needs to be prevented.
I think a good first step would be to limit the H1B visa to only those with advanced degrees--PhDs, MDs, etc.--and preferably trained in the US.
On the other side, there are so many H1B workers who are not highly skilled that it definitely seems that US companies are using this loop hole to hire cheap labor. For example, Disney firing all of its technicians just to bring all new ones in from India under the H1B. That type of situation needs to be prevented.
I think a good first step would be to limit the H1B visa to only those with advanced degrees--PhDs, MDs, etc.--and preferably trained in the US.
76
" a good first step would be to limit the H1B visa to only those with advanced degrees--PhDs, MDs, etc.--and preferably trained in the US."
Anyone with a STEM PhD or MD degree who wants to come to the US should be given automatic citizenship and all of the uneducated, illiterate, non-English speaking illegal aliens should be deported as quickly as possible.
Anyone with a STEM PhD or MD degree who wants to come to the US should be given automatic citizenship and all of the uneducated, illiterate, non-English speaking illegal aliens should be deported as quickly as possible.
3
Disney further humiliated its former employees by making them train those H1B replacement workers. So obviously, no special skills were required. There was a very good story/interview on 60 Minutes about this last year.
Some simple ways to deter Disney-like abuse would be:
1. Limit H1-B slots to the client company, not to the outsourcing companies of the likes of Infosys, Tata Consuultancy and others.
2. Any attempts to force workers about to be displaced by an H1-B replacement and the use of threat of denial of severance benefits and denial of qualification for unemployment benefits be evidence of H1-B abuse and companies doing this be automatically barred fromn the H1-B program. This abuse is very much akin when World War II Jewish concentration camp victims were forced to dig their own graves prior to being gassed, shot or burned alive. Other companies that have participated in this ourrageous abuse include, in adition to Disney include AIG insurance.
1. Limit H1-B slots to the client company, not to the outsourcing companies of the likes of Infosys, Tata Consuultancy and others.
2. Any attempts to force workers about to be displaced by an H1-B replacement and the use of threat of denial of severance benefits and denial of qualification for unemployment benefits be evidence of H1-B abuse and companies doing this be automatically barred fromn the H1-B program. This abuse is very much akin when World War II Jewish concentration camp victims were forced to dig their own graves prior to being gassed, shot or burned alive. Other companies that have participated in this ourrageous abuse include, in adition to Disney include AIG insurance.
2
As a former software engineer who was replaced by an H-1B, I had to return to school to become a medical doctor at the rip old age of 45, I applauded President Trump.
I didn't vote for Trump in the last election, now I consider voting for him in 2020 because of his action on the H-1B.
I didn't vote for Trump in the last election, now I consider voting for him in 2020 because of his action on the H-1B.
19
I support limiting H1b's - but let's hold the 'vote for Trump' - one issue does not make 'good' President.
of course, he won't be curbing any of the workers he and his kin need for their businesses. he will just target industries that he doesn't have anything to do with. this one will bite back since he is now president, not the boss of his own empire.
10
This is a bit of a problem. I teach pilots from all over the world. If Americas are not exposed to how woefully far behind we are in high-level education and thinking, we will never improve. All the pilots coming from other countries are much better prepared and deride our system of education. Restricting talent will only make things worse until we get our children to understand that we are getting our butts kicked in school.
12
Good point. This "America First" mentality is only going to push us further behind when top talent from the world doesn't want to come here anymore. We are already behind in most educational rankings and we're also behind in terms of giving everyone access to the Internet, which spurs learning.
6
I've been a software developer for 40 years. The H1-B program has been a deliberate sham for employers to keep the labor pool up and salaries down. The only winners in this game have been the vampire Bangalore consulting firms such as Infosys who supply the bodies and extract more than their pound of flesh.
The program has had a chilling effect on our best and brightest potential Comp Sci majors who instead of putting their heads down to write code have decided to go into management, or avoid the field altogether.
And don't let anybody fool you: Silicon Valley comprises a tiny percentage of the coders needed in industry, and they will survive even with a scaled-down H1B program. There is sufficient talent in the USA to draw from. Anyone who says otherwise is spewing a well-honed myth.
The program has had a chilling effect on our best and brightest potential Comp Sci majors who instead of putting their heads down to write code have decided to go into management, or avoid the field altogether.
And don't let anybody fool you: Silicon Valley comprises a tiny percentage of the coders needed in industry, and they will survive even with a scaled-down H1B program. There is sufficient talent in the USA to draw from. Anyone who says otherwise is spewing a well-honed myth.
71
"Instead of putting their heads down to write code have decided to go into management, or avoid the field altogether."
Uh, you just said in a nutshell that Americans are not willing to do the work for competitive pay. If an immigrant can survive on that salary, why can't an American?
Where are the Americans willing to put their head down and write code?
Uh, you just said in a nutshell that Americans are not willing to do the work for competitive pay. If an immigrant can survive on that salary, why can't an American?
Where are the Americans willing to put their head down and write code?
4
So you're upset that a company wants access to more developers and competition so they can get the best? What company wants to pay more for a shoddier product?
1
There are many Americans who would be more than willing to do this, and who DID do this years ago. But no one will hire any American over 40.
7
Now Americans in tech jobs will have to suffer the stigma of being affirmative action hires who are less qualified. And are these H1B tech employees really lower paid? Seems like they are all pretty highly paid. It's not the tech sector where Americans have to compete for jobs, but in unskilled and manual labor jobs like construction where immigrants are willing to work for lower pay.
If Trump wants to boost American hiring in the tech sector, he's going to do little to help the working class white Americans who voted for him. If he wants to bring jobs to them, it's time he improved internet access and community college access to training in rural communities. If those people could telework from their homes, they could stay in those communities they love. Many of them do not want to move to where the jobs are, in contrast to immigrants who are willing to uproot themselves and endure long distances from their families.
If Trump wants to boost American hiring in the tech sector, he's going to do little to help the working class white Americans who voted for him. If he wants to bring jobs to them, it's time he improved internet access and community college access to training in rural communities. If those people could telework from their homes, they could stay in those communities they love. Many of them do not want to move to where the jobs are, in contrast to immigrants who are willing to uproot themselves and endure long distances from their families.
12
Will this order now prevent Trump from importing Eastern European women to work at Mar A Lago, and will he be forced to hire brown Americans instead? Sure.
15
Like buying Chinese products when better but more costly American products are available, it's much cheaper to employ foreign workers despite having plentiful numbers of Americans to hire.
5
It depends on what fields you're talking about. There are not plentiful numbers of engineers sitting around in Arkansas.
5
I trust everyone has seen this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TCbFEgFajGU
which is a bunch of lawyers explaining how to avoid hiring an American? "Our goal is not to find a qualified and interested American worker."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TCbFEgFajGU
which is a bunch of lawyers explaining how to avoid hiring an American? "Our goal is not to find a qualified and interested American worker."
20
great reference - it's stunning!
1
That's not exactly how it works. The tech companies are not firing American workers and hiring foreign workers. They are outsourcing the jobs to foreign workers in other countries and they are outsourcing projects to mostly Indian owned companies so I'm not sure what this will discourage.
Companies will bring in Hi-B's for a short stint based on the visa agreement which is hard to get in the first place.
What tech companies may lose is the expertise and patents that some of these people bring with them and the intellectual property they create. These are not low level HiB's however, so what will this change other than looking like another misguided and ill-conceived band-aid on a bigger problem.
Companies will bring in Hi-B's for a short stint based on the visa agreement which is hard to get in the first place.
What tech companies may lose is the expertise and patents that some of these people bring with them and the intellectual property they create. These are not low level HiB's however, so what will this change other than looking like another misguided and ill-conceived band-aid on a bigger problem.
5
Actually, both are true. Jobs are being sent overseas, and workers are being brought onshore.
The H1-B visa is a three year visa that can be renewed once. Most H1-B workers hope to have a green card in that six year period.
The H1-B visa is a three year visa that can be renewed once. Most H1-B workers hope to have a green card in that six year period.
I applaud Trump on this. Also as a liberal, this is something Hillary definitely would not have done. Bernie would've.
But keep in mind, there are different types of H1b's based on level of college degree, and special skills. There are really talented foreigners, specialized, smart, brilliant people (like people who publish in Nature, Cell, etc) who would add a lot to the scientific contributions and should get priority. Then there are H1b's solely hired for cheaper labor but no different skill sets. Those H1b's are the problem.
I don't necessarily blame the low-wage IT foreign workers, they are willing to work those wages and are using a system that's legal and not their design. They want to be exploited so they can immigrate here. It's the companies like Facebook lobbying to use cheaper alternatives to labor and skills readily available in the States.
Only in specific cases where H1bs are needed for skill sets in rare supply in US should obtain H1b's.
But keep in mind, there are different types of H1b's based on level of college degree, and special skills. There are really talented foreigners, specialized, smart, brilliant people (like people who publish in Nature, Cell, etc) who would add a lot to the scientific contributions and should get priority. Then there are H1b's solely hired for cheaper labor but no different skill sets. Those H1b's are the problem.
I don't necessarily blame the low-wage IT foreign workers, they are willing to work those wages and are using a system that's legal and not their design. They want to be exploited so they can immigrate here. It's the companies like Facebook lobbying to use cheaper alternatives to labor and skills readily available in the States.
Only in specific cases where H1bs are needed for skill sets in rare supply in US should obtain H1b's.
20
Eric Schmidt of Google wrote a chilling proposal to the Clinton campaign, offering to put his data analytic services at their disposal and cynically slice and dice every American into some, easily manipulated, identity group. The other tech Ubermenschen were likewise in the Clinton camp. I am in complete agreement with you about how a Clinton administration would have let the matter of H1b's die quietly in its sleep.
1
I don't like Trump, but as a tech worker who is working for a large corporation as a contractor and receiving no benefits at the same wages I used to get with benefits, I have to applaud this move. I don't blame immigrants for what companies are doing I blame the companies who no longer care about their workers and want to treat them as cheap disposable parts.
90
Thanks, that answered my question. So, the H1B program ought to require the same benefits OR impose a tax on the company equivalent to the benefits they are not paying the foreign worker, if that foreign worker is REALLY so skilled an irreplaceable. Then at least it is not a cost issue, and the tax can go into whatever fund that will benefit Americans -- health care, education, infrastructure, etc.
4
Is the lack of benefits an H1B issue, or is it a high-turnover tech industry culture?
I'm living in Silicon Valley but not working not at a tech firm, but I socialize with plenty in the industry. What benefits are not being paid to H1B workers? Do they no get health insurance? As for retirement benefits, no one in this industry even wants to stay on a job that long, American or not -- being at a company as long as 5 years usually means there's something less dynamic about you, and most get itchy to move on to the next startup. Neither managers nor employees guarantee each other any kind of security, but they can fire or quit on a moment's notice, since there are always other opportunities. And the salaries are so high, people manage their own IRAs rather than rely on company plans.
The old way of Hewlett-Packard loyalty is no more.
I'm living in Silicon Valley but not working not at a tech firm, but I socialize with plenty in the industry. What benefits are not being paid to H1B workers? Do they no get health insurance? As for retirement benefits, no one in this industry even wants to stay on a job that long, American or not -- being at a company as long as 5 years usually means there's something less dynamic about you, and most get itchy to move on to the next startup. Neither managers nor employees guarantee each other any kind of security, but they can fire or quit on a moment's notice, since there are always other opportunities. And the salaries are so high, people manage their own IRAs rather than rely on company plans.
The old way of Hewlett-Packard loyalty is no more.
2
Startups barely reflect the industry. In fact, they are the outliers. Most techies work in the back offices of mundane businesses such as retail, banks, or utilities. These workers contribute to the economy far more than startup employees do since these companies are numerous, stable, and solvent. Silicon Valley is important, but it's far from the only game in town.
As far as benefits are concerned; H1B's theoretically aren't supposed to need IRAs, since they won't be here after 5 years and will likely not retire in the USA.
And no, until they somehow obtain residency, they do not live the same standard of living as American workers.
To answer the original question about a "tax" on H1B's - there already is one. A sponsorship fee is collected by the US for each worker, at a hefty 4 figure per year rate. Then there are legal fees on top of that. Of course each of those cut into the employee's wages. They have a lot of hands in their pockets.
As far as benefits are concerned; H1B's theoretically aren't supposed to need IRAs, since they won't be here after 5 years and will likely not retire in the USA.
And no, until they somehow obtain residency, they do not live the same standard of living as American workers.
To answer the original question about a "tax" on H1B's - there already is one. A sponsorship fee is collected by the US for each worker, at a hefty 4 figure per year rate. Then there are legal fees on top of that. Of course each of those cut into the employee's wages. They have a lot of hands in their pockets.
There are more than 500,000 open computing jobs available in the U.S., with only 40,000 computer science graduates each year. If the American public wishes to hit a 4% GDP increase, then it has to address the skills gap with H1B visas until it can ramp up computer science education for American students.
1
First hand, multiple experiences with bringing in low-wage tech workers to displace more expensive American incumbents. US industries don't need to prove in any credible nor verifiable way that they can't find people for the jobs. They could easily fill the positions - if they actually looked and offered market salaries. As with any government program, corporations tear into it trying to figure out how they can make money off of it. They have abused this one long enough. End it.
49
If you want a highly qualified workforce, you have to make it possible for students to actually acquire those skills without going bankrupt. Engineers, doctors and other professionals graduate with outrageous levels of debt here. Foreign applicants are able to work cheaper because they don't carry the same debt load.
If you want American workers to go for these jobs, you have to enable them to train for them. Increase Pell Grants. Give more money to universities. Allow re-financing of student debt.
If you want American workers to go for these jobs, you have to enable them to train for them. Increase Pell Grants. Give more money to universities. Allow re-financing of student debt.
104
Many other abuses aside, a key problem is the out-of-control visas have destabilized the STEM job markets. Even for potentially new visa applicants.
Destabilizing the STEM job markets guarantees less innovation. Which
makes the economy grow slower. Want more slow economic growth? Keep destabilizing the STEM job markets.
Destabilizing the STEM job markets guarantees less innovation. Which
makes the economy grow slower. Want more slow economic growth? Keep destabilizing the STEM job markets.
20
For all those up in arms about foreign workers taking American jobs, I suggest posting an ad on any popular job site for hiring a software developer (say, someone who has a few years of experience with Java). Give it a month. You will get, maybe, 2 applications from US citizens. They will both be hopelessly unqualified for the job. As someone in the tech industry, I would hire any qualified American citizen in a heartbeat - and I am always confused when I read these reports about "jobs being taken away from American workers". Where are these people? Why don't they apply for our jobs?
Contrary to popular belief, it is not at all cheaper to hire someone with an H1B. In addition to the salary/benefits, companies have to pay for legal fees, USCIS fees, relocation costs, et al. Companies also do not get the benefit of, say, putting someone on reduced hours or reduced wages if business is not going well. H1B employees have to be paid a stipulated wage, regardless of how the company is doing. They can be let go, but then the company loses their institutional knowledge.
For a company like the one I work for (medium sized software product development company), this will have the opposite effect to what everyone is hoping for. We will be forced to move development offshore, and only keep marketing teams here. If the US wants to continue its sorry slide towards being a country of salesmen with no real skills (as personified by our new president), this is the way to go.
Contrary to popular belief, it is not at all cheaper to hire someone with an H1B. In addition to the salary/benefits, companies have to pay for legal fees, USCIS fees, relocation costs, et al. Companies also do not get the benefit of, say, putting someone on reduced hours or reduced wages if business is not going well. H1B employees have to be paid a stipulated wage, regardless of how the company is doing. They can be let go, but then the company loses their institutional knowledge.
For a company like the one I work for (medium sized software product development company), this will have the opposite effect to what everyone is hoping for. We will be forced to move development offshore, and only keep marketing teams here. If the US wants to continue its sorry slide towards being a country of salesmen with no real skills (as personified by our new president), this is the way to go.
12
Parth,
I'm struggling to find something true in your screed. The MO of the H1-B firms is to write advertisements that will deliberately not generate resumes, often with wages about half the industry standard. These firms then import H1-B employees and sub them out to larger companies. These "contractors" are routinely abused, as they live in fear of getting fired and immediately deported. I see no validity in your argument that they're "not at all cheaper" when you're hiring them for something on the order of 55% of the prevailing wage. Obviously, the companies that are hiring these people are making money so the employees are significantly cheaper. You argue that the companies hiring them risk "losing corporate knowledge" but H1B contractors are most deliberately NOT permanent employees. They're hired through a contract so that they can get dumped immediately as financially feasible.
I'm struggling to find something true in your screed. The MO of the H1-B firms is to write advertisements that will deliberately not generate resumes, often with wages about half the industry standard. These firms then import H1-B employees and sub them out to larger companies. These "contractors" are routinely abused, as they live in fear of getting fired and immediately deported. I see no validity in your argument that they're "not at all cheaper" when you're hiring them for something on the order of 55% of the prevailing wage. Obviously, the companies that are hiring these people are making money so the employees are significantly cheaper. You argue that the companies hiring them risk "losing corporate knowledge" but H1B contractors are most deliberately NOT permanent employees. They're hired through a contract so that they can get dumped immediately as financially feasible.
8
Software dev here (with 13+ years of Java experience), sorry this is just wrong. There are plenty of older American programers who can do these jobs, or could do them with a small amount of training. What there really is a shortage of is American workers who are willing to work at these jobs in a super high-cost area like New York City/Silicon Valley, at a wage which, while good compared to many jobs, will never allow them to own a home and raise a family there. So you end up hiring just-out-of-college types who don't mind living with their five friends in a two bedroom flat, or third world workers who don't expect to settle here.
16
You nailed it. The 6 low-level coders in a 2 bedroom in Santa Clara is absolutely right!
This is an example of shoddy reporting. The first paragraph states Trump is going after companies who hire foreign workers in order to undercut American wages. The story gives the impression that the problem Trump attacks actually exists. In fact, as stated by Lauren below, the H1B program has stringent requirements coupled with penalties that do not allow companies to pay foreign workers less than the prevailing wage for all persons in that labor category and impose penalties if the company violates the law. It is another example of this administration fabricating an issue so it can pretend it is solving a problem. The scheme is a fraud. Why isn't the reporter telling the real story instead of reporting in such a way as to give credence to the impression that the Trump administration is tackling a problem that actually exists?
Marlin W. Burke
Marlin W. Burke
The H1-B program makes sense for its intended use - bringing in truly talented foreigners. However, the program has been so abused by companies using the program for cheap labor and that is what I and so many other Americans are against. I currently work closely with a talented colleague on an H1-B and his skills are unique. I'm fairly certain he is paid the same as me and our employer does not treat him poorly. It would be a shame to lose someone like that. However, I've worked with many lower-level tech workers on H1-Bs whose skills are a dime a dozen and any American kid out of school with a technical degree can fill those slots.
I read somewhere else that 'programming' will no longer be an acceptable skill to qualify for an H1-B and that would be a start to ending the abuse. Yes, offshoring might become more pervasive, but more likely curbing H1-B abuse will result in a net gain for American jobs and will drive up tech wages.
I read somewhere else that 'programming' will no longer be an acceptable skill to qualify for an H1-B and that would be a start to ending the abuse. Yes, offshoring might become more pervasive, but more likely curbing H1-B abuse will result in a net gain for American jobs and will drive up tech wages.
30
In my decade of working in IT I've seen the abuses of the H1-B visa program. example: Consulting companies hire workers from India and pay them $60k (US workers in the same role are making $80-$90k) and then charge a customer $150k for them. Companies are able to maximize profit at the expense of the underpaid India worker and US workers they won't hire.
There is a real need for the program especially for bringing in high-skilled or specialized skilled workers. However, it shouldn't be used as another way to outsource for cheaper labor.
There is a real need for the program especially for bringing in high-skilled or specialized skilled workers. However, it shouldn't be used as another way to outsource for cheaper labor.
26
Absolutely true, I've heard this story from former Indian H1bs myself. Why the NYT doesn't do more reporting on this issue and try to support Trump on this, perhaps its media bias but hopefully even NYT can get its act together and push this issue to the front page.
Why? Because Democrats like Hillary lost the election cause they didn't care about these practices. It's why I couldn't vote for Hillary. So you keep complaining about Trump voters but Hillary would never have opposed the current H1B visa program.
So why are you losing liberal voters? Is it that hard for NYT Board to realize? If I had to choose between 2 corrupt, lying candidates, I would choose the one that actually stands for American workers rather than one that has tried to replace and eliminate them. Is that a simple idea for Democrats to get their head around?
Why? Because Democrats like Hillary lost the election cause they didn't care about these practices. It's why I couldn't vote for Hillary. So you keep complaining about Trump voters but Hillary would never have opposed the current H1B visa program.
So why are you losing liberal voters? Is it that hard for NYT Board to realize? If I had to choose between 2 corrupt, lying candidates, I would choose the one that actually stands for American workers rather than one that has tried to replace and eliminate them. Is that a simple idea for Democrats to get their head around?
14
The truth is that thanks to computer automation, many good jobs now require some skills. So unskilled American workers may not find work so easily . Unskilled immigrant workers, on the other hand, are eager to accept low pay and do menial work that other Americans feel is beneath them. These Americans are simply not willing to pick peaches and tomatoes at low pay and higher pay will be pure fantasy.
6
The Disney IT employees who were fired and had to train their cheap foreign replacements or lose their severance were not unskilled workers, nor were those who replaced them.
16
The intent of this program was to ensure the means for highly skilled foreign workers whose talents were in limited supply in the U.S. to supplement the U.S. workforce. In practice, as The New York Times has reported, companies, like Walt Disney, have replaced hundreds of U.S.-born employees with foreign workers who were willing to work for substantially less money. In most cases, these U.S. citizens were required to train their replacements before being terminated. That was an abuse of the system and clearly must be ended, but in doing so, the U.S. should make sure that the world's smartest and most highly trained people are still able to work in the U.S. The migration of scientists and artists before World War II enriched the U.S., and we should make sure that stream of talent is still drawn to our country.
20
Is Emperor Donnie going to stop hiring foreign workers on a temporary basis at Mar-a-Lago rather than hiring Americans? I am not holding my breath.
7
I think this was a valid measure when Internet and communications did not exits. I work at tech support, I am visiting family in Armenia, Colombia working from here, calling customers in Cameroon, South Africa and others and not a single interruption on my work flow. So what is going Trump to do next, is he going to suspend wire transfers to employees that are not working on US soil?
2
Hopefully.
4
Here is a guy who drives a Mercedes and makes speeches about "Buy American".
I have never heard an American politician make a speech telling the people to buy an American car, nor any speech telling the American auto companies to make a car that is good enough for Americans to buy.
The quality is not there, as a deliberate corporate policy.
I have never heard an American politician make a speech telling the people to buy an American car, nor any speech telling the American auto companies to make a car that is good enough for Americans to buy.
The quality is not there, as a deliberate corporate policy.
7
I turned out for an anti Trump rally at a 'posh' resort a few weeks back; the resort was hosting Nunes and other GOP luminaries. I was astonished at how many turned up in 'top of the price list' Range Rovers, Mercedes, BMWs... Do as I say, not as I do, eh? (Not a Tesla in sight of course.)
4
Why PieceMail the issue.
Why not one order addressing the hiring of Foreigners?
Unless you're only concerned with the Employer as it pertains to Legal Immigrants?
BTW, I guess all those folks saying they had "No Problem" with the folks here legally,..were just lying to themselves?
Psst, because you weren't lying to me:):)
Why not one order addressing the hiring of Foreigners?
Unless you're only concerned with the Employer as it pertains to Legal Immigrants?
BTW, I guess all those folks saying they had "No Problem" with the folks here legally,..were just lying to themselves?
Psst, because you weren't lying to me:):)
4
MarkAntsy,
The people displaced by illegal Latinos are not the same people who are displaced by H1-B visa holders. The people complaining are not the same people either.
The people displaced by illegal Latinos are not the same people who are displaced by H1-B visa holders. The people complaining are not the same people either.
2
I didn't restrict my comment to Legal or Illegal, so your inquiry alluding I did perhaps means you're confused?
Companies threaten to go offshore if they can't import cheap labor to undermine US wages.
Last week guards hauled an elderly passenger off a United flight, leaving him bloodied, with broken teeth and a concussion. And it took the CEO 3 tries to actually apologize, and a change in company policy to ensure it could't happen again.
We have reached the point where the sociopaths running US companies look normal.
Trump is doing the right thing here. The fact that we need a change in the law to ensure US workers aren't training their cheap replacements is just another version of the United story.
Last week guards hauled an elderly passenger off a United flight, leaving him bloodied, with broken teeth and a concussion. And it took the CEO 3 tries to actually apologize, and a change in company policy to ensure it could't happen again.
We have reached the point where the sociopaths running US companies look normal.
Trump is doing the right thing here. The fact that we need a change in the law to ensure US workers aren't training their cheap replacements is just another version of the United story.
15
There are about 10,500 physicians in this country with H1B Visas. When their successors see increased impediments to USA entry, it seems likely they will go elsewhere. When USA patients have less and less access to physicians, Trump will say it is because of the failure of the ACA. This man's ill-informed, simplistic and shallow view of the functioning of our society will set us back a half century in healthcare, among other things, in very short order.
65
And many should be sent back due to their inability to communicate easily with their patients and their clinical ineptitude.
11
Unlike our computer programmers, the medical profession is determined to keep competition out and incomes high. I am surprised they let any H1Bs practice medicine in the US.
4
Such odious ignorance!
FMG's have known for decades that they can easily make spectacularly more in the USA than they could ever earn in the destitute and often backward countries from which they came and were trained in.
Many work in smaller hospitals or practices in "undesirable locales" where there are simply not enough American MD/DO's to fulfill the need, and they get paid a great deal to come to such.
It's pure economics.
The hospitals will win for a time (until the FMG's pick up and leave), and the FMG always win (until they pick up and leave for an even better paying position in some similar locale).
FMG's have known for decades that they can easily make spectacularly more in the USA than they could ever earn in the destitute and often backward countries from which they came and were trained in.
Many work in smaller hospitals or practices in "undesirable locales" where there are simply not enough American MD/DO's to fulfill the need, and they get paid a great deal to come to such.
It's pure economics.
The hospitals will win for a time (until the FMG's pick up and leave), and the FMG always win (until they pick up and leave for an even better paying position in some similar locale).
1
And while we're at it,..we need to get rid of Salsa in our Country.
It's not only a foreign Condiment; it's a Foreign Dance and we know it's surpassed our (Great) American Mayonnaise a long time ago, because Salsa is darker and cheaper.
It's not only a foreign Condiment; it's a Foreign Dance and we know it's surpassed our (Great) American Mayonnaise a long time ago, because Salsa is darker and cheaper.
19
Good idea.
People like you have been in charge for so long that the SF Bay Area should just be renamed Little Mombai/Wuhan/Guadalajara.
Great job, traitor.
People like you have been in charge for so long that the SF Bay Area should just be renamed Little Mombai/Wuhan/Guadalajara.
Great job, traitor.
1
This is really good news for Sweden!
Now we can hire those skilled individuals instead which boosts our tech R&D.
Fantastic!
Now we can hire those skilled individuals instead which boosts our tech R&D.
Fantastic!
5
Most of them are very mediocre. Good luck!
4
I had a job that I was definitely qualified for (@MarkAntey) as I did it for six years (it was in finance). Then I was replaced by a foreign national H1-B holder who would work for less.
How is that fair?
How is that fair?
68
You should've asked that of your (former) Employer during your Exit/Out Brief?
And if you didn't, that's not your former employer or replacement's fault.
And if you didn't, that's not your former employer or replacement's fault.
Hi, just curious: did they offer you a pay cut to keep your job?
This news is bad for small businesses.
2
Trump is fighting the wrong battle. Most foreign tech workers are the type that would actually enrich a country. They are ambitious, young, believe in hierarchy and meritocracy. This is the group that could eventually create an "urban right", one that does not need to depend on angry white men.
Instead, he should consider tougher action against illegals and really low wage workers, the type of people who might vote Democrat.
Instead, he should consider tougher action against illegals and really low wage workers, the type of people who might vote Democrat.
To POTUS and his supporters credit, they seem to be going after all Foreign Workers.
But foreign products are (still) Cool, yes?
Not for me, I can adjust. I'm asking for millions (upon millions) of WalMart Shoppers, WalMart Workers, WalMart Managers,...and the displaced businesses and workers in the AfterMath of WalMart(s).
But foreign products are (still) Cool, yes?
Not for me, I can adjust. I'm asking for millions (upon millions) of WalMart Shoppers, WalMart Workers, WalMart Managers,...and the displaced businesses and workers in the AfterMath of WalMart(s).
4
The one and only campaign promise that I was actually hoping would be addressed. I'll tip my cap for that and hope Democrats don't try to reverse this.
The palpable hypocrisy is unfortunate though, given this doesn't seem to extend to the low skill H2-B visas that Trump seems so fond to use at Mar-a-Lago.
The palpable hypocrisy is unfortunate though, given this doesn't seem to extend to the low skill H2-B visas that Trump seems so fond to use at Mar-a-Lago.
46
H1b should add an requirement (the workers must be educated at least for years in the USA to be eligible)....This is an equity consideration for foreign student. Many h1b came here just for an entry level job, such as the so-called "LLM". They should be banned. There are no reason for a law clerk or paralegal here. Many of them obtained bar license, but their English sucks! They can't write memo, they can't write briefs, they can't handle trials and/or deposition. Yet, law frims in new york/California uses these cheap labors to replace American legal workers!
19
I am assuming that, unlike the foreigners, you are an expert in writing memos, briefs etc. If your last sentence is an indicator of your mastery in English, I would hire that H1B instead.
4
Lol, too funny!
1
Are you going to fly Eastern coal country people via United to pick in the California fields? And not at union coal wages.
Obese old smokers with diabetes,heart disease, and high blood pressure wouldn't last a day.
It would be a harsh way to lower health care costs.
I am sure the GOP will endorse it.
If we deduct the funeral costs from wages owed, to the whole family.
Obese old smokers with diabetes,heart disease, and high blood pressure wouldn't last a day.
It would be a harsh way to lower health care costs.
I am sure the GOP will endorse it.
If we deduct the funeral costs from wages owed, to the whole family.
There are 2.2 million H1Bs in this country now. Then there are 8 million L1s here also. Both visas are used for engineers, finance, nurses and doctors. Both visa holders can stay up to 6 years. So, we have over 10 million jobs being held by foreigners, and we wonder why our youth don't go into STEM careers. It is simple. They have already seen the parents of their peers laid off, and have heard from the friend's siblings that they can't get a job in STEM when they graduate from college. It is a sad day to have an average of a $30,000 loan to pay off from college, and not get a job in science or finance.
87
> So, we have over 10 million jobs being held by foreigners, and we wonder why our youth don't go into STEM careers.
Is that why our youth are flocking to fields in the Liberal Arts like Languages, History, ...? Jesting aside, I think we are oversimplifying issues here. H1-b visas are one thing, we are engineers who first went to graduate school in the US and then got jobs with H1-B visas 30 years ago. Not sure we made any less than our American counterparts as we could just about live as they did. We are now naturalized citizens and our children born here are young adults themselves. Our children did not want to go into the STEM fields, did not have the passion for STEM according to them, instead graduated with degrees in the Liberal Arts. They did land jobs and are happy, but it was definitely very hard and this had nothing to do with H1-B visas going to foreign workers. As for their friends with STEM degrees, all of them did land jobs easily btw and all of them replaced older workers making large salaries in their companies.
Is that why our youth are flocking to fields in the Liberal Arts like Languages, History, ...? Jesting aside, I think we are oversimplifying issues here. H1-b visas are one thing, we are engineers who first went to graduate school in the US and then got jobs with H1-B visas 30 years ago. Not sure we made any less than our American counterparts as we could just about live as they did. We are now naturalized citizens and our children born here are young adults themselves. Our children did not want to go into the STEM fields, did not have the passion for STEM according to them, instead graduated with degrees in the Liberal Arts. They did land jobs and are happy, but it was definitely very hard and this had nothing to do with H1-B visas going to foreign workers. As for their friends with STEM degrees, all of them did land jobs easily btw and all of them replaced older workers making large salaries in their companies.
2
What you say is so true. Both our teenagers want nothing to do with computing after observing for years how their parents are continuously shaking in their shoes scared to death we'll be outsourced, laid off, replaced with young foreign workers. We're in our early 50's and it would be next to impossible to get a new job in our specialty, even though we are both highly skilled, at this stage in our lives because of rampant age discrimination in the IT industry. Why would our youth want to work for an industry which is so inhumane in their treatment of US workers? Once the hiring rules are tightened, maybe those older people will start looking a lot more attractive again and the brand new STEM graduates will be able to get decent entry-level jobs even if they graduated from a less prestigious college than MIT...
2
Yes, my husband(50-something) was recently replaced with a younger American worker, it does not even have to be a foreigner. Younger employees start out with lower salaries I guess. And computer-related companies like to be attractive to 20 and 30 year olds by calling themselves young. Yes, age discrimination is rampant in this industry.
2
I am not a supporter of Mr. Trump's, but from what I have read and heard from workers affected by this visa, it has not fulfilled its intent.
I think this move by Mr Trump is a good one.
I think this move by Mr Trump is a good one.
40
This looks good to the uninformed but the reality is that it will be yet another impediment to bringing the world's best and brightest to America. The program can use some tweaking but as usual, Trump doesn't understand the issue and is over-reacting. His lack of precision and incompetence will set us back many years.
8
I worked as a computer programmer for 22 years and witnessed the systematic use of H1-B visas to reduce the cost of labor. The job ads were mostly fraudulent. It would be rare for any Computer Analyst to meet all the faux requirements. I was hired regardless, probably because I have an MS in Math. The H1-B visa workers grabbed an opportunity. Who could blame them? They were hard workers and good colleagues but they were not better trained or noticeably brighter and there was often a language problem. Badmouthing American programmers made it look as if there's a shortage of qualified Americans, a requirement for the H1-B. It's Kool Aid that has done a great harm. The profit from paying workers less goes straight to the top and represents a substantial part of corporate profit. Lots of our Best and Brightest are loaded down with student debt and working far beneath their potential.
I think Trump will fold and let his 1% pals keep their scam going, just as he did with the Carried Interest scam. Please, please let me be wrong.
I think Trump will fold and let his 1% pals keep their scam going, just as he did with the Carried Interest scam. Please, please let me be wrong.
9
First good thing he's done.
14
linda5. Maybe intentions are good but it won't work. Small businesses won't be willing to pay American workers more for doing unskilled work when they can hire cheaper immigrant help. Furthermore unskilled Americans won't want to work in the fields picking peaches and tomatoes. So they better go back to school.
We should keep hard working immigrants. We need them. They are our nannies, our painters, our house cleaners, our handymen, our gardeners and our field hands. They do jobs Americans don't want to do and they do them well, and are good hearted and worthy of our respect.
We should keep hard working immigrants. We need them. They are our nannies, our painters, our house cleaners, our handymen, our gardeners and our field hands. They do jobs Americans don't want to do and they do them well, and are good hearted and worthy of our respect.
1
What other workers and companies do you want him to go after?
The visa programs under discussion here are for mid- and high-skilled positions. They are not for manual labor jobs.
I'm not so sure about Americans not wanting to do manual labor jobs anyhow. Maybe they don't want to pick fruit, but some of them would be happy to paint houses. I recently hired two US-born painters to paint my apartment and they certainly put in the hard work.
I'm not so sure about Americans not wanting to do manual labor jobs anyhow. Maybe they don't want to pick fruit, but some of them would be happy to paint houses. I recently hired two US-born painters to paint my apartment and they certainly put in the hard work.
2
The only thing wrong with the H1-b program is that it has been abused by many companies to bring in cheap(er) labor.
The law states that you can only hire H1-b visa holders after you have proven that there are no US legal residents willing to take the job at the _prevailing_ salary for the position.
If, and that is a big "if", the law was obeyed, the H1-b program would be a much better alternative than all those technical companies moving IT job overseas.
When a job is moved overseas you lose everything:
- control over the technology knowledge
- taxes paid by a US resident
- investment by the US resident
IBM, Microsoft, CA Technologies, BNY Mellon and almost everybody else have moved hundreds of thousands of IT jobs to India, China, Prague and Ireland.
These are precisely the kinds of jobs that we want to preserve in this country; they pay well and provide us with a technology edge.
Why is nobody talking about this?
The law states that you can only hire H1-b visa holders after you have proven that there are no US legal residents willing to take the job at the _prevailing_ salary for the position.
If, and that is a big "if", the law was obeyed, the H1-b program would be a much better alternative than all those technical companies moving IT job overseas.
When a job is moved overseas you lose everything:
- control over the technology knowledge
- taxes paid by a US resident
- investment by the US resident
IBM, Microsoft, CA Technologies, BNY Mellon and almost everybody else have moved hundreds of thousands of IT jobs to India, China, Prague and Ireland.
These are precisely the kinds of jobs that we want to preserve in this country; they pay well and provide us with a technology edge.
Why is nobody talking about this?
42
Agree 100%
1
When do we start deporting Foreign Cars,.. We can say we're sending them there for Extreme Maintenance.
And does GITMO have room?
And does GITMO have room?
2
Wait, I thought Republicans and right-wingers were totally opposed to the use of Executive Orders to counter statutory rules? I seem to recall Pres Obama being constantly criticized - and quite vehemently - by Fox etc for using Executive Orders (even though he used fewer than Bush before him).
Oh, I forgot.....Obama is Black and a Democrat......
Oh, I forgot.....Obama is Black and a Democrat......
18
I think its a welcome move and has to be appreciated for his efforts.The only issue I agree with Trump and Sessions.
But the main issue is the outsourcing especially the IT jobs. If no H1B then they will outsource the jobs to India or other low cost geographical countries. IT is another commodity.Gone are the days where you can charge 150/hr. if you make 50-70/hr for the whole year then you are lucky. These are the rates in Silicon valley where the home prices are 1.5 - 2.5 million and rents above 3000+.Just deal with it.
But the main issue is the outsourcing especially the IT jobs. If no H1B then they will outsource the jobs to India or other low cost geographical countries. IT is another commodity.Gone are the days where you can charge 150/hr. if you make 50-70/hr for the whole year then you are lucky. These are the rates in Silicon valley where the home prices are 1.5 - 2.5 million and rents above 3000+.Just deal with it.
25
You approve? Another case of blatant Trump hypocrisy. Trump has taken advantage of H-1B visas for years. He has used them at his various properties and at his model agency for years. He has recently allowed his son Eric to apply for H-1B's to bring workers in for Trump Vineyards.
The jobs that can be outsourced are going to go anyway, even if H-1B is shut down tomorrow. There are jobs that cannot be profitably outsourced and these should not be reserved for H-1B imported workers.
On the east coast, the NY Metro Area, the vast majority of H1B visas go to medical professionals (doctors, nurses), IT professionals and accounting/finance professionals. With the exception of MDs and RNs, they are not low income, although they may earn somewhat less than US citizen counterparts, However as the visa has a timeframe, and employers may replace workers with new H1B workers upon expiration, it is easier than providing benefits, dealing with unions, and makes staff changes easier without needing to increase salaries over time.
In fact one local college has a continuing education program for foreigh RNs who want to work in the US- proving English and exam prep for the US Nursing exam, after which hospitals may sponsor and apply for H1B visas.
In fact one local college has a continuing education program for foreigh RNs who want to work in the US- proving English and exam prep for the US Nursing exam, after which hospitals may sponsor and apply for H1B visas.
15
I would disagree with you - I have worked in multiple commercial banks (both NY and Jersey City) where the technology teams were almost entirely made up of H1B visa holders from India. These were not jobs for which American workers were unqualified, in many situations, the jobs weren't posted locally and someone would soon arrive from our Chennai office for a 3 year stint. In one case, a Chennai-based technical writer who worked with my team was transferred out of the department because her grasp of English was determined to be inadequate for the role. (And this is no shade thrown, English was her 4th language after Tamil, Hindi, and her local village language.) Six months later, she arrived in New York working for our parent company as a technical writer in a role two levels above the one she had with our team. When we asked why she had been brought to the US, HR stated that they couldn't find any technical writers in NY with sufficient English skills. Take a look at the PATH train in the morning and bring on the H1B reform.
1
“The effect would end up being exactly the opposite of what Trump wants,” he said. “Companies would go offshore, like Microsoft did with Vancouver, Canada,” to seek talent.
Companies have gone offshore. Maybe Mr. Atkinson hasn't called tech support or a credit card company in the last 20 years but I can assure him that the crackdown will not stop companies from offshoring their tech support until they decide that it's worth having Americans speaking to other Americans about tech issues, credit card issues, billing issues on store credit cards, etc. I, for one, am tired of dealing with offshore personnel who do not understand American slang, are given scripts to read, often aren't trained to solve a problem as much as get rid of us and close the call, and whose accents can be hard to understand.
As someone who is in IT, who worked in scientific research and was displaced by cheap labor brought here, I know the claim that tech and other companies make about being unable to find skilled enough workers is a lie. We're here and willing to learn. All companies have to do is decide that we're worth paying, training, and retaining. If they can't figure out that hiring American supports the American economy and might do some good for their bottom line they don't deserve the tax breaks and other forms of corporate welfare they get.
Companies have gone offshore. Maybe Mr. Atkinson hasn't called tech support or a credit card company in the last 20 years but I can assure him that the crackdown will not stop companies from offshoring their tech support until they decide that it's worth having Americans speaking to other Americans about tech issues, credit card issues, billing issues on store credit cards, etc. I, for one, am tired of dealing with offshore personnel who do not understand American slang, are given scripts to read, often aren't trained to solve a problem as much as get rid of us and close the call, and whose accents can be hard to understand.
As someone who is in IT, who worked in scientific research and was displaced by cheap labor brought here, I know the claim that tech and other companies make about being unable to find skilled enough workers is a lie. We're here and willing to learn. All companies have to do is decide that we're worth paying, training, and retaining. If they can't figure out that hiring American supports the American economy and might do some good for their bottom line they don't deserve the tax breaks and other forms of corporate welfare they get.
42
I wonder if new executive order will also limit the low paid CONSTRUCTION WORKERS that he loved to hire on the cheap to build and service his crappy properties?
20
It should...but way to be a skeptic...glad to see your views on a good policy because you don't like the person implementing it
2
This will MAKE Americans qualified for these jobs by,...?
If those Coal Miners aren't trained properly to replace them,..all this is for naught.
If those Coal Miners aren't trained properly to replace them,..all this is for naught.
4
There are plenty of Americans in Silicon Valley who have been replaced by cheaper H1-b visa holders. Even Disney got rid of hundreds of American skilled workers and made them train their foreign replacements to boot. Enough.
52
SW, you're lying to yourself.
No one "made" them train someone else.
No one "made" them train someone else.
3
Only if you want your severance pay.
I've been laid off twice in the last 10 years. Basically everyone I have ever worked with has lost their job at least once.
I've been laid off twice in the last 10 years. Basically everyone I have ever worked with has lost their job at least once.
8
Guess we will become the same as Brazil, building our on home-made versions of VW bugs and iPhones...go figure.
1
This executive order is cosmetic at best. A lot of tech workers come over on a variety of visas, not just the H1b. Many of the workers keep their salaries and taxes in the country they come from and come here on "visits". This order will simply make that practice more out in the open, where the workers are located in other countries but participate in calls and video conferences, and come here to visit when needed. Net loss of jobs will be the same.
Also, what this executive order does not address at all is that what started as offshoring, is now morphing into automation. H1b tech jobs are being replaced with bots, scripts, AI and automated routines that are even more cost efficient. What executive order will stop automation from taking away jobs?
Also, what this executive order does not address at all is that what started as offshoring, is now morphing into automation. H1b tech jobs are being replaced with bots, scripts, AI and automated routines that are even more cost efficient. What executive order will stop automation from taking away jobs?
8
Good question
2
Many science and engineering professionals, increasing including Americans, have international careers. R&D is done through both the movement of talent across borders and collaboration between teams spread across the globe. Some firms find international search is necessary to find people with particular combinations of skills. Other firms may find that the best person for a job is a foreign student receiving a U.S. advanced degree. There are great gains from both the better match between people and jobs and from the knowledge transfers from international networks.
When the U.S. makes it harder for scientists and engineers to cross borders we not only reduce the pool of talent available to the U.S, economy but we isolate ourselves from the research and knowledge creation being done in the rest of the world.
When the U.S. makes it harder for scientists and engineers to cross borders we not only reduce the pool of talent available to the U.S, economy but we isolate ourselves from the research and knowledge creation being done in the rest of the world.
11
You assume that there aren't qualified US citizens. instead of looking at it like companies who do a cost basis approach
Candidate A: Highly qualified, will cost 15% more
Candidate B: Higher than average qualified, will cost 7% more
Candidate C: Minimal Qualified, will cost -10% (simplified for understanding purposes)
Let's bring over Candidate C and say we couldn't find a qualified citizen for the job.
Candidate A: Highly qualified, will cost 15% more
Candidate B: Higher than average qualified, will cost 7% more
Candidate C: Minimal Qualified, will cost -10% (simplified for understanding purposes)
Let's bring over Candidate C and say we couldn't find a qualified citizen for the job.
3
if the non-us workers are so special, why do they get paid less and fewer benefits? why don't they get paid more and see where that takes us?
4
The vast majority of H1Bs are not scientists and engineers, but routine corporate programmers maintaining old accounting and deposit systems. While you need some technical knowledge, the main requirement is to be willing to work long hours for a fixed salary, and put up with all kinds of corporate BS at your bank or brokerage house.
1
"Planned Trump Order Will Discourage Hiring of Low-Wage Foreign Workers " and WHAT is wrong with that?
10
Unless a bunch of Americans are ready to go into the hot summer fields and pick crops by hand, or work construction, who exactly will replace these huge labor sectors of the economy?
H-1B is largely used in the tech industry, not by agriculture.
1
I don't agree with Trump on just about everything, but this one has my full support. American tech workers have been pushed out of and kept out of good-paying tech jobs for years by cheaper, easier to control, H1Bs, The companies that promote the H1B program are lying when they claim they can't find Americans who can do the job. The company crafts purple squirrel job descriptions and when an American meets all the requirements, offer low-ball rates - the same pay rate that was offered to entry-level workers 20 years ago. Many of the tech companies simply don't want Americans, especially women. I know what this is like from personal experience.
It's not about the skills, it's about the money.
An H1B worker who will take $15/hr to stay in the US is preferred.
It's not about the skills, it's about the money.
An H1B worker who will take $15/hr to stay in the US is preferred.
58
Purple squirrel...hit the nail on the head. I've also seen it first hand. There are plenty of highly skilled and specialized skilled Americans in IT. They are also smart enough to know the value of these specialized skills so they demand their salaries accordingly. For companies though, why pay an American $200k +benefits when you can pay a revolving door of H1-Bs $90k.
8
Purple squirrel, yes! That's what I meant with a comment I made about narrow job requirement niches or something to that effect. No one can meet the requirements or if they can, the salary is ludicrously small, allowing the company to pop up and say, "See, there's no one qualified for this position" even though there are thousands of unemployed programmers who could realistically fill that position quite well.
All the liberal commentators here are supporting Trump when he is protecting their high-skill jobs from just a few legal, foreign workers.
But how dare Trump protect low-skill American workers from 25 MILLION low-skill illegals.
The hypocrisy is breathtaking.
But how dare Trump protect low-skill American workers from 25 MILLION low-skill illegals.
The hypocrisy is breathtaking.
7
Is that the official Fox News number now, 25 MILLION? BTW, the term is "low-skilled."
7
@trblmk - What is your number? 5 MILLION, 10 MILLION, 30 MILLION? Does it matter? It's a LOT, regardless of the exact number.
And guess what? No one knows the exact number because illegals usually get paid in cash, avoiding income taxes, and don't exactly report their street addresses to the government. All numbers are a guess, but we can be sure they are in the MILLIONS.
btw, way to dodge my point.
And guess what? No one knows the exact number because illegals usually get paid in cash, avoiding income taxes, and don't exactly report their street addresses to the government. All numbers are a guess, but we can be sure they are in the MILLIONS.
btw, way to dodge my point.
5
Yes, we can't get an exact number like 10,368,514 but you chose 25 million as your number. Where did you get it?
I think we both agree employers are the ones who created this problem by "$upporting" congre$$ people to not enforce current law.
I think we both agree employers are the ones who created this problem by "$upporting" congre$$ people to not enforce current law.
1
To all the liberal Ph.D. tech workers on this board who say, "I don't like Trump, but I support this . . ." let me ask: How is building a wall to prevent the rampant use and abuse of poorly skilled immigrant labor at slave wages any different? If you oppose border security, you support modern day wage slavery. You can't have it both ways. Shame on the greed of companies that take advantage of poor people from other countries!
10
And shame on those skilled Americans who hypocritically want their industries protected from low wage competitors while demanding the entry of all the unskilled and low skilled workers who want to come to the US illegally even as they flood the job pool and drive wages down.
5
"If you oppose border security, you support modern day wage slavery."
That's an oversimplification. If the federal government really enforced the laws already on the books and made the hiring companies ascertain the legal status of their employees we probably wouldn't need a wall.
Hmm. I wonder what might be keeping this from happening. Could it be lobbying $$$ from big restaurant chains, construction companies, and big agro??
That's an oversimplification. If the federal government really enforced the laws already on the books and made the hiring companies ascertain the legal status of their employees we probably wouldn't need a wall.
Hmm. I wonder what might be keeping this from happening. Could it be lobbying $$$ from big restaurant chains, construction companies, and big agro??
4
I would concede your point if trump also cracked down on the EMPLOYERS of the low skilled workers the way he has the tech industry. however, he is cracking down on the low skilled immigrant workers instead of the farmers and fast food employers.
7
Here's a strange thought! What if we required that companies to pay people with work visa's that same amount as skill workers in the same field? That would force companies to only bring in truly talented people instead of hiring people with work visa because of cheap labor. Wouldn't that solve the problem?
9
What I don't get is: are Americans not willing to take the job for the same pay rate as the H1B worker? Is the latter cheaper because of some reduction in benefits that Americans would get but H1B holders would not? Otherwise, I don't get the argument that H1B workers are cheaper.
Yes, if it weren't so easy to get around that requirement. Nobody checks that any of the requirements are met.
1
@nkirv - Many H1Bs are young guys with no family who want to come to the US for a while. They will take a lower salary because they can live cheaply and save money. If they decide to go home after 3 or 6 years, they will have money saved that will go much farther in their own country than it would in the USA.
3
In the long run curbing the foreign workers will hurt the country and people will start ignoring America for other countries.
4
Trump hires hundreds of foreign workers using H-2B and there's no mention of changing THAT program. From CNN Money:
"The U.S. Department of Labor has confirmed to CNN that between 2013 and fall 2015, Trump's Mar-a-Lago club posted 250 seasonal job openings and filled just 4 of those jobs with American workers. The club requested the rest of the staff be temporarily imported through the Federal government's H-2B visa process. Basically, Mar-a-Lago brings in its seasonal staff from overseas."
"The U.S. Department of Labor has confirmed to CNN that between 2013 and fall 2015, Trump's Mar-a-Lago club posted 250 seasonal job openings and filled just 4 of those jobs with American workers. The club requested the rest of the staff be temporarily imported through the Federal government's H-2B visa process. Basically, Mar-a-Lago brings in its seasonal staff from overseas."
8
What's your point? This is about a different visa program.
Quit being such a negative nancy about everything.
Quit being such a negative nancy about everything.
4
Another day more feckless, fact-less populism.
3
Companies deserve massive criticism...
I once worked with a guy who stank, missed work for religious reasons and spoke broken, at best English. He wrote SQL reports. Not exactly rocket science. He wasn't cheap either. He was inconvenient and needed to be trained like anyone else. That is how I know the H1B program is junk.
Don't even bring up the devastation in the lunchrooms for American IT workers.
I once worked with a guy who stank, missed work for religious reasons and spoke broken, at best English. He wrote SQL reports. Not exactly rocket science. He wasn't cheap either. He was inconvenient and needed to be trained like anyone else. That is how I know the H1B program is junk.
Don't even bring up the devastation in the lunchrooms for American IT workers.
18
Why not put up more money to educate people in this country to be able to fill these jobs. How about some free education that is payed for by the companies in need of employees. I say hire U.S. citizens first. Of course keep in mind much of the customer service jobs are outsourced to the Philippines and to India as well by greedy American companies, perhaps we should stop this too.
80
If you dig into the issue, there are actually lots of American college graduates with STEM degrees that struggle to get jobs in industry like tech, because the industry favors the cheaper HB-1 workers and, some allege, because of discrimination in favor of those nationalities already heavily employed in those companies dominated by HB1-Visas. So it's not so much a matter of lack of education.
19
Were they behind the Coal Miners when POTUS signed legislation for them?
" lots of American college graduates with STEM degrees that struggle to get jobs in industry like tech, "
" lots of American college graduates with STEM degrees that struggle to get jobs in industry like tech, "
It has become so pernicious that former H1-B workers have risen into management positions and have instituted homeland nepotism hiring practices. They ignore or dodge American labor law. I've seen this first-hand. There are plenty of native born workers who are ready, willing, and able to perform these jobs but are being shut out.
The American programmer's standard of living has declined - no, crashed - over the past 25 years.
The American programmer's standard of living has declined - no, crashed - over the past 25 years.
6
What is not mentioned in this article (or in many discussions about the H1B program) is that the government sets a Prevailing Wage for all jobs in which an H1B is being requested. You cannot hire someone on the H1 visa at "rock bottom" salary , because the visa does not allow for it - you have to show that you are paying them the Prevailing Wage. The firm I work at has people on the H1 Visa who are being paid more than their American counterparts because that is the salary the government deemed appropriate. But these are the best people found for the job (after sometimes exhausting recruiting efforts). And that is the heart of capitalism, isn't it? The best person wins - no matter what their home country may be?
5
You can't use anecdotal evidence from your personal experience to extrapolate across the entire industry. Here are some facts from a study (source cited below) that addresses the entire industry, which shows how HB1-Visas are actually depressing wages for American STEM workers:
- In FY 2005, H-1B employer prevailing wage claims averaged $16,000 below the median wage for U.S. computer workers in the same location and occupation.
- 90 percent of H-1B employer prevailing wage claims for programming occupations were below the median U.S. wage for the same occupation and location.
http://cis.org/LowSalariesforLowSkills-H1B
- In FY 2005, H-1B employer prevailing wage claims averaged $16,000 below the median wage for U.S. computer workers in the same location and occupation.
- 90 percent of H-1B employer prevailing wage claims for programming occupations were below the median U.S. wage for the same occupation and location.
http://cis.org/LowSalariesforLowSkills-H1B
16
Then why not just raise prevailing wage - rather than decimate the visa?
Lauren - you're right but there's an exemption which companies abuse.
If an employee is being paid more than $60,000/year or has a master's degree, you don't have to meet the prevailing wage standard. What many H-1B companies do is pay a foreigner 60,001 for a job whose going rate is $120,000 - and this is fully legal. Remember that the $60,000 cieling was established in 1990 (when it was a lot of money) and has not been inflation adjusted in 27 years.
If an employee is being paid more than $60,000/year or has a master's degree, you don't have to meet the prevailing wage standard. What many H-1B companies do is pay a foreigner 60,001 for a job whose going rate is $120,000 - and this is fully legal. Remember that the $60,000 cieling was established in 1990 (when it was a lot of money) and has not been inflation adjusted in 27 years.
4
It's a test for which there will be a demonstrable result. Those wicked foreigners will stay in their own countries, or go to others. If, in fact, American workers can compete with their talents, and earn the higher wages they'll be paid, our dominance of hi-tech industries will continue. If not, it won't. Does a free market spur innovation, competition, and creativity, or just drive down wages? Does protectionism nurture local talent, or encourage mediocrity? We'll find out.
5
H1-B visa abuse is the one area where Trump's anti-immigrant slogans rang true to fact and data, and not merely to neo-Nazi xenophobia. In the case of technology jobs, employers are indeed spurning American-born workers to hire and import cheap labor from foreign nations, and in some cases emptying out whole departments to replace them with H1-BS (supposedly reserved for jobs that can't be filled with Americans.)
Tech employers will wail and cry: "But Americans workers aren't educated enough to fill these jobs!"
Fine. EDUCATE THEM. Companies who cared about their nation's people and economy are well-capable of setting up tech academies to train their next phase of American workers, at low or no cost to the students.
And BTW, when tech moguls vote GOP for the party that is dismantling public education, it is hypocritical for you to import people and complain your own countrymen lack what you won't support.
Tech employers will wail and cry: "But Americans workers aren't educated enough to fill these jobs!"
Fine. EDUCATE THEM. Companies who cared about their nation's people and economy are well-capable of setting up tech academies to train their next phase of American workers, at low or no cost to the students.
And BTW, when tech moguls vote GOP for the party that is dismantling public education, it is hypocritical for you to import people and complain your own countrymen lack what you won't support.
55
Educate them? How long do you think it takes to get a postdoctoral degree? What do we do in the meantime?
1
It takes 3 to 6 months to complete a technical education course in entry-level computer programming.
5
A post-doc to be a programmer? Seriously?
We have more than enough native skilled technicians in this field, and more in the pipeline. Just give them a chance.
We have more than enough native skilled technicians in this field, and more in the pipeline. Just give them a chance.
7
It's still early.
Ultimately, Trump will go with whatever benefits him and his personal bank account the most.
Ultimately, Trump will go with whatever benefits him and his personal bank account the most.
6
I'm no Trump supporter, but if Americans won't do the grunt work that foreign workers do, then we need to pay the Americans an equitible wage to do it. State and local governments must quickly get on board with training programs. Maybe it will mean raising costs of goods, Americans are spoiled with their disposable, wasteful consumption, and other Americans pay the price.
5
So how is this going to bring back coal jobs?
How is this going to bring back low skilled manufacturing jobs?
How is this going to help the people of Appalachia?
Just askin cause it looks like they got left out again. But cheers to the programmers and code writers!
Maybe Trump in his infinite wisdom and compassion will open up some federally funded schools to teach small town rust belters how to write code?
Oh heck, never happen. Not necessary anyway. Coal is coming back.
How is this going to bring back low skilled manufacturing jobs?
How is this going to help the people of Appalachia?
Just askin cause it looks like they got left out again. But cheers to the programmers and code writers!
Maybe Trump in his infinite wisdom and compassion will open up some federally funded schools to teach small town rust belters how to write code?
Oh heck, never happen. Not necessary anyway. Coal is coming back.
29
Coal is not coming back! Even the Chinese are cutting back on coal for nuclear and renewable energy.
1
I think Trump (or the GOP) has been doing things to make it easier for energy exploration and cutting back environmental regs, which helps coal companies.
Re the H1 program, though, ultimately that does have a slight trickle down effect. American workers are more likely to spend more of their money here at home. A lot of H1 workers send some of their checks back to their home country. So that is a mild effect... not much but it might help a few low skilled workers.
Re the H1 program, though, ultimately that does have a slight trickle down effect. American workers are more likely to spend more of their money here at home. A lot of H1 workers send some of their checks back to their home country. So that is a mild effect... not much but it might help a few low skilled workers.
1
Amen. If Trump wants to help working class Americans, especially the white rural Americans who voted for him, he should boost internet access and community college training in rural areas. Then those people could stay in the communities they love. Many of them don't want to move to where the jobs area, so if they could telework from home, they could stay. Internet jobs and self-employment ought to be the ideal solution to rural underemployment, as the only infrastructure needed is the internet.
1
The whole approach just shows how confused Republicans are when they become populists. They want no interference with the economy and reduced regulation except;;;;when it suits a political need. The fact is that people are going to vote with their feet. If everything goes back to the states like min wage, social services, environment regulations then people will go to that state that best suits them. Corporations like Microsoft will go to a place where they can hire freely. Those of us who are mobile in terms of job, investments, and income will migrate to a place whose policies reflect our personal beliefs. This is what the Republicans want and I urge them to go for it. I urge all to look at New York City as an example. We have labor protections, regulations, health care, and people are flocking to region for work and life style.
1
I think we should curb hiring foreign workers. The working class has been ruined by too much competition, low wages. However, we will have to invest more in our (technology, science, math) schools if we are to fill those spots and compete on a world market stage.
13
Ted Cruz had an ad during the election season which made a great point - if lawyers and journalists were coming over here and taking jobs from American lawyers and journalists then they might be more concerned about this issue!
I used to work in the tech field and saw over and over where highly skilled American workers had to train the H1 workers or a team in China to replace them. It's galling for the American workers to have to do that but they didn't have a choice really.
I also saw, when I worked at a placement office, that sometimes lower skilled workers were replaced by illegals. These were often American black and Hispanic people - and the illegals were often paid the same salary as the Americans but they weren't given benefits like health care and the employers knew they could skimp on stuff like OSHA regulations because the illegals wouldn't report unsafe working conditions.
So basically this is wrong on so many different levels ....
Anyway, I'm all for making it harder to import foreign labor if there are Americans willing to do the job. I'm not anti-immigrant, far from it. I think immigrants are of great value to this country but we need to take care of our own citizens first.
I used to work in the tech field and saw over and over where highly skilled American workers had to train the H1 workers or a team in China to replace them. It's galling for the American workers to have to do that but they didn't have a choice really.
I also saw, when I worked at a placement office, that sometimes lower skilled workers were replaced by illegals. These were often American black and Hispanic people - and the illegals were often paid the same salary as the Americans but they weren't given benefits like health care and the employers knew they could skimp on stuff like OSHA regulations because the illegals wouldn't report unsafe working conditions.
So basically this is wrong on so many different levels ....
Anyway, I'm all for making it harder to import foreign labor if there are Americans willing to do the job. I'm not anti-immigrant, far from it. I think immigrants are of great value to this country but we need to take care of our own citizens first.
12
Does this apply to the Family Business??? Pandering to his base, and leaving the pesky details up to his GREAT appointees. So sad.
7
Yes, the H-1B work visa should be reformed. It has increasingly been abused. But do make sensible rules and let the pendulum not swing too far on the right that the solution is worse than the original problem.
1. Fly American
Implication: That has been a rule for most our funded projects. An alternate Asian flight that is available for $740 is skipped over for an American airline that charges $1420. Of course, the $680 difference is taxpayers' money that could have been spent on something more productive.
2. Buy American:
Implication: How do you plan to enforce this rule when almost nothing is made in America today? Take a trip to Walmart if you have any doubts.
3. Hire American:
Implication: USA had around 1 million foreign students enrolled in 2015. When American kids are finding it hard to pay for the tuition fees as high as 200K at CMU, MIT and Harvard, how do you think are you going to fix the problem by stopping visas? That would only mean these kids would go to India and China and we will lose the only edge we have today --- technology! Those 1 million students that we just educated would be our competitors.
If you really want to fix the problem, start with lowering the cost of education and provide easy access to education for American kids.
1. Fly American
Implication: That has been a rule for most our funded projects. An alternate Asian flight that is available for $740 is skipped over for an American airline that charges $1420. Of course, the $680 difference is taxpayers' money that could have been spent on something more productive.
2. Buy American:
Implication: How do you plan to enforce this rule when almost nothing is made in America today? Take a trip to Walmart if you have any doubts.
3. Hire American:
Implication: USA had around 1 million foreign students enrolled in 2015. When American kids are finding it hard to pay for the tuition fees as high as 200K at CMU, MIT and Harvard, how do you think are you going to fix the problem by stopping visas? That would only mean these kids would go to India and China and we will lose the only edge we have today --- technology! Those 1 million students that we just educated would be our competitors.
If you really want to fix the problem, start with lowering the cost of education and provide easy access to education for American kids.
10
This is rich coming from a man that hires foreign workers at his resorts so that he can pay them lower wages and no benefits.
"THE FOREIGN WORKERS OF MAR-A-LAGO
The President has a dim view of extending visas to employees in the technology industry. But, when it comes to his club, it’s a different story."
"he has expressed no objection to the visa category that hotels and resorts use—the H-2B—to attract low-cost, low-skilled seasonal labor. In fact, at Mar-a-Lago, his Palm Beach club, the visas are still in active use. Why the exception to the no-exception rule?"
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/03/20/the-foreign-workers-of-mar-...
"THE FOREIGN WORKERS OF MAR-A-LAGO
The President has a dim view of extending visas to employees in the technology industry. But, when it comes to his club, it’s a different story."
"he has expressed no objection to the visa category that hotels and resorts use—the H-2B—to attract low-cost, low-skilled seasonal labor. In fact, at Mar-a-Lago, his Palm Beach club, the visas are still in active use. Why the exception to the no-exception rule?"
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/03/20/the-foreign-workers-of-mar-...
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Since 2010, nearly 300 United States residents have applied or been referred for jobs as waiters, waitresses, cooks and housekeepers there. But according to federal records, only 17 have been hired. In all but a handful of cases, Mar-a-Lago sought to fill the jobs with hundreds of foreign guest workers from Romania and other countries. In his quest for the Republican presidential nomination, Mr. Trump has stoked his crowds by promising to bring back jobs that have been snatched by illegal immigrants or outsourced by corporations, and voters worried about immigration have been his strongest backers. But he has also pursued more than 500 visas for foreign workers at Mar-a-Lago since 2010, according to the United States Department of Labor, while hundreds of domestic applicants failed to get the same jobs.
Trump also said this: If I am President, I will not issue any H-1B visas to companies that replace American workers and my Department of Justice will pursue action against them. And he offered this critique of expanding the “H” program: It would allow any company in America to replace any worker with cheaper foreign labor. It legalizes job theft. It gives companies the legal right to pass over Americans, displace Americans, or directly replace Americans for good-paying middle class jobs.
Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/431908/donald-trump-immigration-hyp...
Trump also said this: If I am President, I will not issue any H-1B visas to companies that replace American workers and my Department of Justice will pursue action against them. And he offered this critique of expanding the “H” program: It would allow any company in America to replace any worker with cheaper foreign labor. It legalizes job theft. It gives companies the legal right to pass over Americans, displace Americans, or directly replace Americans for good-paying middle class jobs.
Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/431908/donald-trump-immigration-hyp...
11
Trump wants the visible face of his businesses to be tall thin white women. He and his customers want that. There are plenty in eastern Europe who can fill that bill. In Miami, anyone fitting that description has better life prospects then working as a server or hostess in a Trump resort.
I tend to vote Republican but I didn't vote for Trump. I can't believe anyone would vote for this guy given his very long, very well documented record of cheating people, lying, etc. Of course, I couldn't believe the Dems put Hillary as their candidate either. I seriously think Bernie would have beaten Trump and so would Biden and several others.
But whatever our political or philosophical differences, one thing I will agree with you on - Trump has indeed hired foreign workers, not just at Mar e Lago but also there was that lovely Polish scandal. He hired illegal Polish workers to build Trump Towers and he didn't provide them with safety equipment even though they were working with asbestos. To me that is just evil. I'm all for free markets and captialism but simple human decency suggests one makes sure to provide necessary safety equipment for workers. It is immoral not to!
But whatever our political or philosophical differences, one thing I will agree with you on - Trump has indeed hired foreign workers, not just at Mar e Lago but also there was that lovely Polish scandal. He hired illegal Polish workers to build Trump Towers and he didn't provide them with safety equipment even though they were working with asbestos. To me that is just evil. I'm all for free markets and captialism but simple human decency suggests one makes sure to provide necessary safety equipment for workers. It is immoral not to!
8
Trump's "Hire American, Buy American" gambit is an old one. It is not about giving Americans a fair wage, rather, it is about dividing the workforce along racial lines. It is a cynical racist ploy, and self-proclaimed Phd's posting here should know better.
4
'“Companies would go offshore, like Microsoft did with Vancouver, Canada,” to seek talent.'
Exactly how is that tragic? This means one less competitor for a $5,000 a month one bedroom apartment in the Bay area. Yes this is simply horrible. Over population will go else where. Hey, if given the chance I would
move to Vancouver.
One Huge Loohole:
'require applicants and their potential employers to demonstrate
that the visas are going only to “the most highly skilled workers”
in their fields.'
High tech companies actively discriminate against women, people from some ethnic minorities but not others,older workers, and the disabled. They don't even try to hide it.
If you let these companies decide who are the “the most highly skilled workers”, the list won't include women, some ethnic minorities, older workers or the disabled or any other US citizen. They will include Uncle Aadarsh's nephew Sanjay from Hyperabad, though.
Exactly how is that tragic? This means one less competitor for a $5,000 a month one bedroom apartment in the Bay area. Yes this is simply horrible. Over population will go else where. Hey, if given the chance I would
move to Vancouver.
One Huge Loohole:
'require applicants and their potential employers to demonstrate
that the visas are going only to “the most highly skilled workers”
in their fields.'
High tech companies actively discriminate against women, people from some ethnic minorities but not others,older workers, and the disabled. They don't even try to hide it.
If you let these companies decide who are the “the most highly skilled workers”, the list won't include women, some ethnic minorities, older workers or the disabled or any other US citizen. They will include Uncle Aadarsh's nephew Sanjay from Hyperabad, though.
36
This is a good move, BUT not enough, need put another 20% VAT type tax for service provided by Foreign company, that will kill off shore business
Great comment!
What many articles fail to mention is - if you are bringing in workers on a visa you are required to pay the prevailing wage in the U.S. for the job (you can't pay below market). However, if the employee you are replacing is highly paid (over market), you can save money by replacing with a visa holder. However, here's how companies save the real money - you bring in someone on a visa from someplace like India - pay them their low home country pay rate plus a temporary allowance to bring them up to the prevailing wage. After they are trained, you send them home to India and remove the allowance - now they are only earning their low home country pay. This is of course assuming that visa holders are brought in to replace American workers for the purpose of saving money; the tech companies claim they can't find these workers in the U.S. and need to bring people in. If this is true, to promote "hire American" Trump needs come up with solutions to the shortage to address the training gap - something he has shown no interest in doing.
37
There are plenty of American workers, they just want to make an American wage. I worked in tech for many years and saw Americans being forced to train their replacements. The American workers are there, in fact for a while I think there was a glut... and the other thing is that American workers are usually paid more but they are worth it.
I think too many times management gets a penny wise and pound foolish attitude. You can hire the cheapest worker and then pay for it later... or you can hire someone who is more expensive but is actually a better value because they know what the heck they are doing and they will actually meet your deadlines and deliver a high quality product. Up to a point, a higher quality product will actually save you money as there will be less returns, less bugs, etc.
I think too many times management gets a penny wise and pound foolish attitude. You can hire the cheapest worker and then pay for it later... or you can hire someone who is more expensive but is actually a better value because they know what the heck they are doing and they will actually meet your deadlines and deliver a high quality product. Up to a point, a higher quality product will actually save you money as there will be less returns, less bugs, etc.
Yep, that's exactly what these "cloud" companies are doing There's no training gap - we trained our replacements and got kicked out, and they saved a lot of money on us. Or if you really want to call it a training gap, it's a matter of what highly-experienced and educated people can teach under-motivated and under-educated people in a small amount of time.
You can hire an H1b worker for less than 40 hours a week by paying the prevailing hourly wage, but use them full-time. Also, you can dumb down the job description so the prevailing less is the minimum for that type of work, and then use them for greater responsibilities.
1
This is one of the first things with which I've agreed with Trump. The company I worked for moved my department, and my job to India and it cost me the most important working years of my life. Probably too late to benefit me, as I'm over fifty and underemployed. But I hope it has a positive effect for other Americans like my son, especially new college grads, seeking employment. We have the best universities in the world. I find it difficult to believe companies cannot find people to fill positions. The people in my group were some of the most talented technical staff, and those who replaced them were not but were cheaper.
Milton Freidman would disagree, but I believe that American corporations should have some social responsibility to America, in addition to their shareholders. They are able to compete and do business because of the infrastructure of their country, and the economic well being of its citizens. Especially now that they are allowed to make unlimited political contributions, there should be a mechanism in place to ensure that their actions benefit their country and its people, or at least don't harm them. This includes prioritizing American citizens for employment opportunities.
Milton Freidman would disagree, but I believe that American corporations should have some social responsibility to America, in addition to their shareholders. They are able to compete and do business because of the infrastructure of their country, and the economic well being of its citizens. Especially now that they are allowed to make unlimited political contributions, there should be a mechanism in place to ensure that their actions benefit their country and its people, or at least don't harm them. This includes prioritizing American citizens for employment opportunities.
185
@Ivy Grad: Wonderfully said. I wish I could recommend you a thousand times.
3
Corporations receive special treatment from various laws, including keeping shareholders immune from losses in the business. They supposedly received special treatment because the growth of companies was going to benefit society with jobs and profits. If there is no quid pro quo, why should corporations continue to be immune.
3
American corporations are only accountable to stock holders. Its a great and super dumb myth to think otherwise. This change will have the un-intended consequence of reducing innovation. This will impact many things from health care to software. This is more small minded, non-reality based thinking. People come to US to learn and share. Its not about low paychecks. If your company downsized to save money, that means the stockholders wanted more money. Sorry. this is another misguided trump idea.
2
This is the only thing I agree with him on. This is the right thing to do. Corporations are clearly just using foreign workers to bloat the labor supply and bring down the cost of labor. The notion that Americans can't and don't want these jobs is a total falsehood. At at time when so many Americans can't find work despite having a decent education, I see no reason why we should have so many foreign workers...even Bernie Sanders said the same thing while being interviewed a few years ago.
79
So for LEGAL Immigrants they go after the Employers but for Illegal Immigrants,..they go after them?
Must be a different class of Employers to let them slide?
Must be a different class of Employers to let them slide?
11
As a libertarian businessmen I strongly oppose this anti-growth, anti-freedom and anti-business policy. So do Facebook, Google and other companies that will now have more of a problem finding qualified labor and will have to pay more.
2
Hello Yoda. Facebook and Google et. al. actually don't have trouble finding qualified labor. They just want cheaper labor. Those guys are very happy to act illegally to keep labor costs down. https://www.lieffcabraser.com/antitrust/high-tech-employees/
8
Aw gee. Poor Google.
Let Google and Facebook find US citizens for the job. There are more than enough. And who cares, anyway? Most techies work in hospitals,banks, utilities, communications companies, brokerages and hedge funds. New Jersey's population has grown in leaps and bounds by H1B workers, and very few of them are working for Google and Facebook. The "shortage" is a myth.
Let Google and Facebook find US citizens for the job. There are more than enough. And who cares, anyway? Most techies work in hospitals,banks, utilities, communications companies, brokerages and hedge funds. New Jersey's population has grown in leaps and bounds by H1B workers, and very few of them are working for Google and Facebook. The "shortage" is a myth.
3
Hillary and the Democrats have long opposed such a policy, as it is anti-business and anti-growth. May they win the next election and overturn this disgraceful policy that so hurts employers and economic growth (plus is racist to boot)!
4
How is it racist if an Indian-American is hired for a job that would have gone to a visa holder who is in the US temporarily?
We have a very diverse American society. The purpose of these visas has never been to further diversify our nation of immigrants.
We have a very diverse American society. The purpose of these visas has never been to further diversify our nation of immigrants.
5
keep up the good work trump.you are the best thing that ever happened to Canada.
20
But what is not reported that the new restrictions will not affect the foreign workers who are employed by Trump's companies since they are not tech jobs. Those "models" and service industry workers will still be working for Trum and also for Disnery.
12
Yes, the H2-B visa is an entirely different thing.....
And son Eric Trump's Trump Winery applied for permission to hire 29 MORE foreign workers to plant vines and pick grapes for $10.72 an hour at its Virginia plantation. "Pres" Trump's policies always favor the Trump family. Let's see him try to "reform" the tax code without revealing his own tax returns for the last decade.
4
Say, companies, if the guys you're bringing in are so 'talented', why are you paying them so little? Microsoft, surely you can afford to bring in those highly skilled fellows with PhDs in computer science and pay them $160K, right? Google, do you really need all those programmers with a two-year degree from the New Delhi Tech Institute? Facebook, if you just need grunts to run regression tests, I believe there are plenty of suitable applicants right here in the USA.
110
So are you for a maximum and minimum wage, neither? And is your Wage Rage reserved only for MicroSoft?
Jonathan,
I can tell you never owned or operated a business. The goal of business is to minimize costs and maximize profits. What you propose will do nothing more than destroy the golden goose that lays the eggs.
I can tell you never owned or operated a business. The goal of business is to minimize costs and maximize profits. What you propose will do nothing more than destroy the golden goose that lays the eggs.
1
" I believe that there are plenty of suitable of applicants right here in the USA"
No there really aren't. One of the key reasons why we they are trying so aggressively to teach people programming is because there is a too many programming jobs and not enough people qualified enough to fill them. They are expecting that shortfall to continue despite our aggressive push to reach people more programming. Trump's push to restrict l1 visas at least sort of made sense (we have enough poor artist in this country trying to get recognized) but with this measure we will be shooting ourselves in the foot.
No there really aren't. One of the key reasons why we they are trying so aggressively to teach people programming is because there is a too many programming jobs and not enough people qualified enough to fill them. They are expecting that shortfall to continue despite our aggressive push to reach people more programming. Trump's push to restrict l1 visas at least sort of made sense (we have enough poor artist in this country trying to get recognized) but with this measure we will be shooting ourselves in the foot.
2
“The effect would end up being exactly the opposite of what Trump wants,” Atkinson said. “Companies would go offshore, like Microsoft did with Vancouver, Canada,” to seek talent. So, why is that worse than allowing tech companies to bring the same foreign workers here? Those companies can always do that anyway -- there must be some advantage to them in bringing the foreign workers here rather than going to those workers in other countries. Whatever that advantage is, the administration is correct is taking it away from them. We can only do so much to counter the unpatriotic actions of corporations, but we should do what we can.
69
What's UnPatriotic about a company hiring qualified Foreigners?
4
The advantage to having the company here should be obvious. Very few companies are hiring exclusively foreign workers. They may hire many, but it is more than likely supplementing the local workforce. If the company was elsewhere, that local workforce would be too! And those are American jobs lost. Also, their tax dollars (the company's, the employees, the goods and services they buy from the community they are located in) all go to someplace else as well.
1
It's different because immigrants are a boon to the economy. They live here, pay taxes, support businesses, and have American children who go on to contribute to their generation. That doesn't happen if the jobs are in Vancouver.
Protectionists on the left and the right simply ignore the many benefits that immigrants bring -- even if they beat out American citizens for some jobs, they are a huge asset to the country.
Protectionists on the left and the right simply ignore the many benefits that immigrants bring -- even if they beat out American citizens for some jobs, they are a huge asset to the country.
2
So Trump will curb foreign born tech workers. Will he also curb the foreign born worker that he has hired for his businesses and fr his son's vineyard?
79
No
Pretty sure the vineyard workers are here on green cards and work visas - NOT Hb-1 visas.
It's about time! The high tech industry is full of people from other countries with H1B visa here in our country (USA). Competing for high tech jobs have been hard because of H1B abuse, especially in software development. I'm glad Trump is going to end the abuse!!
117
Which High Tech Jobs are foreigners preventing you from having? is it your American Name that employers are ignoring?
3
the tech companies are going to hire whom from nowheresville, USA? the kids from Kansas whose parents don't believe in science?
As an ultra liberal PhD from Boston, I say Bravo to trump, and where are the spineless Democrats
Only problem, a really big one, this is good for people like me, but Trump the hypocrite with foreign workers at his winery and mar a lago, leaves people without special skills unprotected
Only problem, a really big one, this is good for people like me, but Trump the hypocrite with foreign workers at his winery and mar a lago, leaves people without special skills unprotected
168
It's not a big problem at all. As a businessman, Trump maximizes profit while playing by the rules (set by the Obama administration). As the POTUS, Trump sets the rules for the good of the country. If the new rules hurt his business, they hurt competitors equally.
3
Trump does not do anything "for the good of the country." He only does things "for the good of the Trumps." But he tries to make it look patriotic for his remaining faithful. It will take a very long time for most of them to catch on to im.
5
When has Trump ever acted against his own self interest? He has demonstrated that he will use the office of President to further his family business and amass more wealth. He refuses to release his taxes. He hands over green tech to China. He damages the American image in the world The Horrible Hundred days of this corrupt and ignorant man have done nothing but hurt the country.
5