Looks like the "thick" universities are also the ones with heavy religious affiliations and are private. Go Bruins!
3
As I read this, I started to cry. I need more thickness in my life.
11
This is a great piece, one of David Brooks' best. Summer camps have great potential to be thick institutions and many are, and Mr. Brooks describes Camp Nebagamon, the one I attended, to a tee. I think there are other qualities that thick institutions share, including reasons for existence, strong and positive values, and opportunities to buy in. In addition to encouraging participants to be their best selves, they actually result in the participants becoming better persons.
5
And hopefully these thick organizations also foster compassion for those outside the group. Otherwise, no matter how good members are to each other, it becomes easy to ostracize, vilify, and mistreat the non-member "other."
18
Often, when I read this kinda stuff, i think it's odd that you are a republican , Mr. Brooks, because literally nothing in the organizations you seem to value is illustrated in the gop. They are thin to the extreme, with a rampant and rabid self-interest being the defining characteristic of most members of it individually, while as an organization a similar self-interest has formed, an us against country and the world and even some of us mentality. They have become so disgusting they even disgust some o f their own members, who can be disgusting even themselves, after all, who hasn't heard enough would be maverick talk from mavericks that could a been, but weren't ? Mr. Brooks should just settle into where he belongs and become once again a Democratic Party member, if a conservative one, because there ain't nothing wrong with that, and his party hasn't left him, it has left the entire realm of reality.
17
Brilliant piece, David. Thank you.
What I take from your article is that when Thick organizations are ethical and moral, then those who participate are strengthened by them. Obivously really nasty organizations employ these same techniques to amplify the damage they do.
Nevertheless, when the organizations themselves are moral and pursue good, people are enlarged. People have a sense of purspose and they have a stronger sense of themselves and what they believe in. That is an invaluable and steadying force in a world filled with chaos.
I would also point out that the modern GOP is pushing America toward a very transactional view of citizenship. It is all about the individual and demonization of the collective. Democrats are not innocent by any means but there is a much greater tendency among members of the right to celebrate the individual. "I got mine, everybody else is on their own."
That won't work long-term.
What I take from your article is that when Thick organizations are ethical and moral, then those who participate are strengthened by them. Obivously really nasty organizations employ these same techniques to amplify the damage they do.
Nevertheless, when the organizations themselves are moral and pursue good, people are enlarged. People have a sense of purspose and they have a stronger sense of themselves and what they believe in. That is an invaluable and steadying force in a world filled with chaos.
I would also point out that the modern GOP is pushing America toward a very transactional view of citizenship. It is all about the individual and demonization of the collective. Democrats are not innocent by any means but there is a much greater tendency among members of the right to celebrate the individual. "I got mine, everybody else is on their own."
That won't work long-term.
4
This article set me to thinking about the major "thick institution" in my life which was later mentioned, Wheaton College (Illinois). I also attended the University of Chicago, and have degrees from two state universities and one Jesuit school. However, while I have often been frustrated with Wheaton’s leadership, it is the one school that truly left its mark on me.
Wheaton challenged me to first consider its own point of view (in the context of the literature, philosophy, theology and history of the western world), and then to develop my own world view. I worked my way there toward the values and vision that would drive my life so that even through career changes and personal stumbles, I would become increasingly confident regarding my place in working for the common good.
Soon I will be at the 55th anniversary of my graduation. In previous reunions, I noted that differences of class and privilege that once set us apart receded as we matured under the challenges of individual missions driven by shared visions of a better earth that we long ago discovered and celebrated together.
Our farm family was financially challenged in those years. A progressive program in effect at the time, the Illinois State Scholarship Commission, paid my tuition for all four years. Some cafeteria work, summer jobs, and a little help from my parents allowed me to complete my degree without a dollar of debt. Yes, I am pushing for that kind of investment in today's students.
Wheaton challenged me to first consider its own point of view (in the context of the literature, philosophy, theology and history of the western world), and then to develop my own world view. I worked my way there toward the values and vision that would drive my life so that even through career changes and personal stumbles, I would become increasingly confident regarding my place in working for the common good.
Soon I will be at the 55th anniversary of my graduation. In previous reunions, I noted that differences of class and privilege that once set us apart receded as we matured under the challenges of individual missions driven by shared visions of a better earth that we long ago discovered and celebrated together.
Our farm family was financially challenged in those years. A progressive program in effect at the time, the Illinois State Scholarship Commission, paid my tuition for all four years. Some cafeteria work, summer jobs, and a little help from my parents allowed me to complete my degree without a dollar of debt. Yes, I am pushing for that kind of investment in today's students.
10
Most people will mimic their leaders.
Strong charismatic leaders who emanate substance and not simply branding skills can cause authentic changes.
Strong charismatic leaders who emanate substance and not simply branding skills can cause authentic changes.
2
Unfortunately, thick institutions don't always serve a higher good. Think of the Mafia, the KKK, or exclusive country clubs.
8
The New Canaan (Connecticut) Volunteer Ambulance Corps. Enough said.
1
Excellent! This reminds me of why I continue to go to church even as all the pollsters and sociologists go on and on about the death of the Protestant mainline church. I cannot claim perfect faith or belief in Christian doctrine but I stay in it because it offers me "thickness," that is a path to moral agency, a connection with others and with our shared histories.
I think this can offer part of an explanation into the decline of mainline religion. It was probably a lot "thinner" than was perceived, people attending because they were expected to, and it was a source of social capital. I think it was the writer Rev. Diana Butler Bass who (in her book "The Practicing Church")pointed out that while America never had an "established" religion, it didn't need one. There was always an active civil religion that supported the state and vice versa, no constitutional attachment required.
Now, it's only those who have a shared commitment to this "micro-culture" (or even a counter-culture as per Rod Dreher's "The Benedict Option" in the conservative traditionalist version) that show up and carry these communities forward. For those of us who identify as progressive Christians, these communities may yet shrink some more, but I doubt they will disappear entirely.
I think this can offer part of an explanation into the decline of mainline religion. It was probably a lot "thinner" than was perceived, people attending because they were expected to, and it was a source of social capital. I think it was the writer Rev. Diana Butler Bass who (in her book "The Practicing Church")pointed out that while America never had an "established" religion, it didn't need one. There was always an active civil religion that supported the state and vice versa, no constitutional attachment required.
Now, it's only those who have a shared commitment to this "micro-culture" (or even a counter-culture as per Rod Dreher's "The Benedict Option" in the conservative traditionalist version) that show up and carry these communities forward. For those of us who identify as progressive Christians, these communities may yet shrink some more, but I doubt they will disappear entirely.
5
Three questions, David: 1. Can we infer that a society with thinned out organizations, from the broken family organization to that of diminished public schools to broken unions to government aimed at personal gain, will be less well off at the societal and personal levels than a society with thick organizations at all levels? 2. If the inference is valid, then why do so many Republicans seem hell bent on breaking up thick organizations such as public schools, public servants, professional/trade organizations such as air traffic controller unions? 3. Thicker organizations, according to the research presented in your essay, would strengthen people's sense of personal responsibility, so if Republicans truly value personal responsibility, then shouldn't they support the development of thicker organizations?
Thanks for the very informational article.
Thanks for the very informational article.
7
Wheaton? Surely you do not mean the once all-women's college i graduated from fifty years ago. It was ok, but it was not the Wheaton in the midwest to which you must be referring where we always heard you had to promise, among other thinbgs, never to dance.
If that is thick Wheaton, I am grateful for having been at thin Wheaton, where all the girls were as unlike each other as they could be in the early 60's and ran like heck every weekend to where the Boys were.
If that is thick Wheaton, I am grateful for having been at thin Wheaton, where all the girls were as unlike each other as they could be in the early 60's and ran like heck every weekend to where the Boys were.
6
Great article, David. I especially liked the 'horizontal versus vertical' metaphor. It is the time for college reunions....a great time for your article.
1
Based on this, I would suspect Hells Angels is a thick institution.
4
The newspapers I worked for years ago were both "thick" organizations and thank god for that. We who are alumni/veterans of them are all still pretty close and reflect on the experiences we had to be together and to do good. We miss that comraderie and the sense of mission we had then. Life since has been thin soup as many of us wound up in "thin" groups that offered little substance or sustenance for us or others. Those "thin" organizations run the world now. Sadly.
2
Thick institutions are virtuous and healthy as long as they don't start down the slippery slope toward tribalism, and "us-vs-them". If we don't check in with ourselves periodically to reevaluate our group's intentions, we can wander into the dangerous territory of exclusively, rather than inclusiveness.
Common good; remember to keep that in mind.
Common good; remember to keep that in mind.
5
I worked in agencies (federal) that did good work for the public and could have been thick-ish but mostly were thin. I did my best to accentuate the positive for myself-- paying as much attention as I could to the helping aspects and the training aspects and sometimes-- just occasionally-- the teamwork aspects. As a retiree, I can honestly admit that the fraught aspects of those places was constantly with me. But I mostly feel good about my own participation. And I have good memories of a few of the individuals whose SSI checks or passports I helped to make possible.
Just to say-- you don't have to feel entirely stuck when you happen to be in a place that simply helps you make a living.
Just to say-- you don't have to feel entirely stuck when you happen to be in a place that simply helps you make a living.
1
A very interesting column. Of course, the kind of organization that David describes could be a church, or could be North Korea.
I think it's also interesting to read the approving comments from many presumably liberal readers (of whom I am one), because "thick" groups are a common trope of conservative cultural warriors, e.g. Charles Murray. The idea being that our modern, secular, individualistic culture is broken, leading to loneliness and immorality.
I think Murray and Brooks take it a bit far, but they do have a point. I see a theme in the comments that I also feel. I "used to" belong to a church. I "used to" live in a small town and knew all my neighbors. There used to be a military draft, and labor unions, and Knights of Columbus, etc.
I think in the age of bowling alone, and Twitter, and smart phones, our social connections are much thinner or shallower than they used to be.
I think it's also interesting to read the approving comments from many presumably liberal readers (of whom I am one), because "thick" groups are a common trope of conservative cultural warriors, e.g. Charles Murray. The idea being that our modern, secular, individualistic culture is broken, leading to loneliness and immorality.
I think Murray and Brooks take it a bit far, but they do have a point. I see a theme in the comments that I also feel. I "used to" belong to a church. I "used to" live in a small town and knew all my neighbors. There used to be a military draft, and labor unions, and Knights of Columbus, etc.
I think in the age of bowling alone, and Twitter, and smart phones, our social connections are much thinner or shallower than they used to be.
7
I worked in a "thick" organization part-time while finishing my degree, and for 1 year after graduating.
Then I moved to a new city and worked nearly ten years in what could only be called a "thin" company. They day I left, only a few close people even dropped by to say goodbye.
After ten years absence, I went back to visit a friend at this first "thin" company, my 1-year-old daughter on my shoulders. As I walked through the partitioned office, these old colleagues stood and gave me a standing ovation just for getting married and having my child.
Now that's thick.
Then I moved to a new city and worked nearly ten years in what could only be called a "thin" company. They day I left, only a few close people even dropped by to say goodbye.
After ten years absence, I went back to visit a friend at this first "thin" company, my 1-year-old daughter on my shoulders. As I walked through the partitioned office, these old colleagues stood and gave me a standing ovation just for getting married and having my child.
Now that's thick.
2
CENTRAL HIGH SCHOOL IN PHILLY Is a thick institution, though it must be an outlier because it's a large public school in the city. It's selective with many applicants for each slot available. Central was founded in 1836 and has many distinguished graduates. When I attended between 1961 and 1965, it was an all boys' school. Now it's coed. We were all on the fast track, trying to get into a good college so we'd be well-trained for professional life. Alfred Barnes, who founded the Barnes Institute of Art in Philly was an early graduate. Noam Chomsky, renowned linguist and political philospher is also a Centralite. One thing I remember about Central is that we were very focused on learning. I cannot recall a time when guys teased each other because they loved learning. In 2015, I attended the 50th year reunion of my graduating class, the 224th. Many of the guys I saw there, including some I got to know beyond recognizing them, felt as I do that we most strongly identify with Central than any other place where we've studied. When we get together, we sing the school song. Every year there is an Alumni Career Day the Tuesday before Thanksgiving, right before the historic football game with Northeast High. In March there is a Student International Day. Central has the most varied students in the US, from many different countries and backgrounds. Though most of the teachers who taught there when I attended are gone, I'm grateful for how they prepared me for life.
2
I used to think America was a thick institution because it's known as the “United States” of America. I'm not so sure anymore.
8
It would be hard to argue with this, were it not for the examples. Fraternities, not mentioned explicitly but invoked by the "difficult initiation rituals" a/k/a hazing, famously feel "thick" but in fact are often instrumental for their members, both in their present lives (easier access to sex partners) and in their future lives (networking with people destined to be rich). The Marines, mentioned explicitly, are totally instrumental; they're to protect the interests of American rich people in exploiting other countries. They deliberately /simulate/ thickness to convince recruits that it's a good idea to kill and/or die to protect the rich. Carefully not expressed, but shining throughout this column, is the idea that religious groups are inherently thicker than secular groups. Why doesn't the list of example colleges include MIT? My experiences as an undergraduate there have very strongly shaped who I am; there's a very distinct MIT way of being in the world.
As usual, Brooks uses a great general idea as a hook to support rhetorically his usual rightist goals.
As usual, Brooks uses a great general idea as a hook to support rhetorically his usual rightist goals.
10
"A thick institution is not one that people use instrumentally, to get a degree or to earn a salary." Mr. Brooks' demans "thin" institutions (such as colleges or businesses), but our society is much better off for them. Given the rampant apathy and institutional failures in society today, we have to start somewhere. He is making the emotionally perfect the enemy of the practically good.
5
Is it practically good to turn out MBAs by the score when they will foist on industry the outworn thinking and economic models of the era of the Ford Foundations and Robert McNamara? I think not.
In essence, Brooks writes somewhat the same column over and over. This is a little different, but in the background is the same longing for a past that he may have had, and feeling that somehow something is amiss for most of us who don't cherish his values.
As has been pointed out to him probably hundreds of times. his support of the GOP starting with Reagan is support for a group of people who do nothing but undermine social cohesiveness. He continually displays a grand cognitive dissonance from the world he would like to be in to the world his people have created. Very immature.
As has been pointed out to him probably hundreds of times. his support of the GOP starting with Reagan is support for a group of people who do nothing but undermine social cohesiveness. He continually displays a grand cognitive dissonance from the world he would like to be in to the world his people have created. Very immature.
Individual, community, society is a continuum. A community is interpersonal; society is anonymous. The symbols that are used to designate an inclusive community, such as uniforms, argot, secret signs and handshakes also separate the community from outsiders. The interpersonal and named relationships in a community that seem to be more than instrumental nevertheless have a purpose, a use. That use is group solidarity based on alliances, who you know and who you don't. It is small scale. What we think of as civilized society transcends both individual and community; civilized society allows for social interactions that are based on function and not on who you know. Civilized societies span generations of individuals because their functional organization is not dependent on personal relationships. Brooks as a writer consistently elevates individual character and interpersonal relationships over systems and anonymity. This is fine from the perspective of the individual telling a story, but such a view does nothing to address the issues of the social system (and planet) as a whole. Brooks seems to think that moral exhortation and folksy parables will somehow fix the problems of human society and global ecology. But moral exhortation only works on the interpersonal level and it is at heart a nostalgic, retrograde, small town and ultimately useless endeavor when applied to civilized social systems as a whole.
4
I'm assuming you meant the Great Books school, St. John's College, and not St. John's University in Queens. If so, yes, Johnnies can spot each other in a crowd. They are permanently marked by an intense intellectual and personal development journey that few other college students experience.
Paula B, SJC-SFGI, 1974
Paula B, SJC-SFGI, 1974
1
The Citadel: viscosity of glass.
2
I wonder if you realize that you have described the difference between a Democratic Democracy and an exclusive Republican Capitalism. You so obviously prefer the "thick" Democratic Democracy, one wonders why you work so hard for the other kind?
7
You old friend, Joe Toscano, sounds like a devout community organizer, the same role that Barrack Obama was mocked for by your party in 2008 and after. But the brilliant success of his two terms confirms how beautifully that role inspired his policies and social strategies. Now, the only group I am aware of that may enjoy, as you put it, a label of wearing "secret underwear" are Mormons, a community thick with racism, bigotry, misogyny, and fundamentalism. And one mustn't overlook the thickness of the KKK and the NRA whose labels are more than familiar.
3
I guess I'm Thin.
When I was a kid in the '60's, I thought it was goofy that the same school that told me Russians were forced to love their country required me to stand and Pledge Allegiance, sing the national anthem, etc. I was creeped out by the people who craved church on Sunday, and when I was in the military I laughed at the people who were "ate up" - loved the ritualistic pomp & circumstance the military provides over just getting the job done. People seem to love their local university, but all that love seems to be around embracing the success of the sports teams. All forms of socialism.
What I find interesting is that my friends and family that are on the conservative end of the spectrum (using the currently popular definition of the term), LOVE all of those things. Ask them what they think about labor unions, or supporting the meaningful services the good 'ol US Government provides, and they'll scream "socialism", or "Nanny State"!
I particularly love it when a small government conservative screams about the feds telling them how to live their lives, after just having attended mass, where a guy (never a girl) just spent the last hour TELLING THEM HOW TO LIVE THEIR LIVES, and that we need more of THAT in our society.
When I was a kid in the '60's, I thought it was goofy that the same school that told me Russians were forced to love their country required me to stand and Pledge Allegiance, sing the national anthem, etc. I was creeped out by the people who craved church on Sunday, and when I was in the military I laughed at the people who were "ate up" - loved the ritualistic pomp & circumstance the military provides over just getting the job done. People seem to love their local university, but all that love seems to be around embracing the success of the sports teams. All forms of socialism.
What I find interesting is that my friends and family that are on the conservative end of the spectrum (using the currently popular definition of the term), LOVE all of those things. Ask them what they think about labor unions, or supporting the meaningful services the good 'ol US Government provides, and they'll scream "socialism", or "Nanny State"!
I particularly love it when a small government conservative screams about the feds telling them how to live their lives, after just having attended mass, where a guy (never a girl) just spent the last hour TELLING THEM HOW TO LIVE THEIR LIVES, and that we need more of THAT in our society.
10
Reading the comments reminded me that I moved to a "thick" culture 14 years ago when I realized that America was driving me slowly insane.
My adopted country has provided me with a superb health care system called Carte Vitale where the entire system is designed to help the patient first instead of only the providers or insurance companies.
My new village is multinational with retirees from all over Europe who support each other in all they have in common as retirees.
The government in my adopted country is more afraid of the citizens instead of the citizens fearing the government, just as it should be.
In my adopted culture, the rights of the citizens are always more important than the rights of the capitalists.
My adjustment to my new country required that I cast off my defensive and protective shell since it was no longer necessary in my new home!
My adopted country has provided me with a superb health care system called Carte Vitale where the entire system is designed to help the patient first instead of only the providers or insurance companies.
My new village is multinational with retirees from all over Europe who support each other in all they have in common as retirees.
The government in my adopted country is more afraid of the citizens instead of the citizens fearing the government, just as it should be.
In my adopted culture, the rights of the citizens are always more important than the rights of the capitalists.
My adjustment to my new country required that I cast off my defensive and protective shell since it was no longer necessary in my new home!
12
Felt the hair stand up on the back of my neck as I read this. There is nothing more alienating than finding oneself at odds with the thickness of others.
18
So what's the difference between a thick organization and a cult?
20
The promise of the Statue of Liberty is what "thickness" is all about. America is made up of millions of citizens who live that responsibility everyday of their lives and strive to share their faith in a better country and a better world.
4
My church meets all the criteria you list.And it "made all the difference."
1
I don't know about all those rituals and chanting. Ultimately, I think if you look back, it wasn't the chanting that stayed with you, but the warmth, kindness, and bonds among the people. Rituals and sacred stories are great (I teach mythology) and can be very moving, but unless--and you do suggest this--the creed translates into action, these are empty and hollow. They can also leave lasting marks when they are not positive influences (the devil was so real to me that I carried a fear of the dark and death well into adulthood).
Work--even salaried work--can be like this, too, as can internships, which you are perhaps too quick to dismiss out of hand--when the work is meaningful. Can we dare say in this day and age, when work is a vocation, even a calling?
It all boils down to what kind of mark we want to leave. And I assume that the marks come not from the "brotherhood" or the "sisterhood" but from the goodness of the people one meets and the good one is able to do?
Work--even salaried work--can be like this, too, as can internships, which you are perhaps too quick to dismiss out of hand--when the work is meaningful. Can we dare say in this day and age, when work is a vocation, even a calling?
It all boils down to what kind of mark we want to leave. And I assume that the marks come not from the "brotherhood" or the "sisterhood" but from the goodness of the people one meets and the good one is able to do?
1
The first institutions that come to mind when reading this article are Fraternities and Sororities. Love them or hate them, they clearly hit all the marks that engender a "thick" institution. Groups of similarly minded, young men and women, that come together with one purpose (friendship, bonding, community service, etc), and solidify a long lasting bond thru long-traditions, strong alumni, and a common purpose.
1
Brooks is one of my favorite writers. Another is Bob Vanourek, award-winning author of "Triple Crown Leadership" with his son, Gregg Vanourek (professor at KTH). Generally speaking, you can't have a great, or thick organization without a foundation built on great leadership. Many of the qualities of a thick institution espoused in the opinion piece by Brooks are inherent in the qualities of a great leader.
I would argue, based on my own experiences, that not all thick institutions are good, or of high moral character and ethically sound. But the same cannot be said of great leadership. By definition, great leaders are unwavering in their commitment and adherence to the highest levels possible of ethics and morality. Absent those two qualities, they are simply not great leaders.
I would argue, based on my own experiences, that not all thick institutions are good, or of high moral character and ethically sound. But the same cannot be said of great leadership. By definition, great leaders are unwavering in their commitment and adherence to the highest levels possible of ethics and morality. Absent those two qualities, they are simply not great leaders.
I appreciate this essay. I can relate to it in the community that I grew up in where I still know many people.
1
If you really want to leave a mark on people you could look at them and see the divinity in them and then treat them kindly and lovingly. You could share your lunch. You could give the guy with the sign a buck. You can look at a homeless person and smile and say "Hello". A lot things a person can do besides going to the University of Chicago.
There are two rather "thick" organizations that seem to have out sized influence in our government and Nation: the KKK and the American nazi party.
Boy, do those people's commitment to their groups and their causes get "thick".
There are two rather "thick" organizations that seem to have out sized influence in our government and Nation: the KKK and the American nazi party.
Boy, do those people's commitment to their groups and their causes get "thick".
Something that rings in my mind is "Make America Great Again". I believe the people in smaller towns, rural areas, even suburbs surrounding cities saw loss, and had a longing for, this kind of connection. They saw a chance with Trump and rolled the dice. They heard someone rail against the government, the leaders, the politicians, and the large institutions - the very people and organizations that they perceived worked against the formation and the maintenance of the thick relationships that mark ones life. They wanted - they still do - those experiences for their children, for future generations. They feared they could not provide this and lost hope in a government that seemed inadequate and unwilling to help with that. The "greatness" people sought might be captured in the thick institutions that Brooks describes. Communities, villages, work places, education places - environments that enable and nurture the chance for such thick institutions to evolve. Not this time, but maybe next time.
1
Is it a job or a vocation, are you engaged or are you just serving time, are you connected or disconnected?
Organizations matter; the mission, the individual and the leadership. You can take potshots at the characteristics of organizations that succeed in their (good or bad) mission by calling out the bad ones and collateral damage of some erstwhile successful ones, but there are lots of admirable organizations.
David Brooks is shouting out that admirable organizations are very important and don't just happen. Good point, worth making.
I will take a pass on the secret underwear, though. Not interested.
Organizations matter; the mission, the individual and the leadership. You can take potshots at the characteristics of organizations that succeed in their (good or bad) mission by calling out the bad ones and collateral damage of some erstwhile successful ones, but there are lots of admirable organizations.
David Brooks is shouting out that admirable organizations are very important and don't just happen. Good point, worth making.
I will take a pass on the secret underwear, though. Not interested.
At some point, in a big picture sense, I hope this sense of connection and unified vision can bring the United States back together again. Unfortunately at this point in time the only things that seems to bring us together are international sports team wins or a catastrophic event such as an earthquake or a terrorist event on our soil.
David, while I empathize with your thoughts, individuals who thanklessly go about helping others and lead what I would call a spiritually exemplary life, I would hope your following column would illustrate the negative side of the equation, groups that foment greed, violence racism ,misogyny; id est. KKK, NRA, and most of the republican party.
5
Thank you for your well worded response to Brooks' column. My sentiments exactly.
2
Sir:
As a long, long time respecter of your thinking and writing, a first note to you. The motto of Northfield-Mt. Hermon School in Gill, Mass. is "head, heart, hand," and its mission fits hand and glove with the essence of your column today. The evangelist Dwight L. Moody created the school in the 1880s so that young people regardless of gender, color, ethnic background or religious commitment could receive an education no matter their financial capability. Besides the usual academic, arts, sports and club activities students must do many hours of manual work in the service of the school each week (hands). Students do not wear khakis, blue button downs and blazers:) The school tries to guide each student to find his/her passion to make a constructive contribution to our planet. If you are not familiar with the school, I think you would enjoy. The Head is Peter Fayroian. With respect and warm regards, David Hartman...
As a long, long time respecter of your thinking and writing, a first note to you. The motto of Northfield-Mt. Hermon School in Gill, Mass. is "head, heart, hand," and its mission fits hand and glove with the essence of your column today. The evangelist Dwight L. Moody created the school in the 1880s so that young people regardless of gender, color, ethnic background or religious commitment could receive an education no matter their financial capability. Besides the usual academic, arts, sports and club activities students must do many hours of manual work in the service of the school each week (hands). Students do not wear khakis, blue button downs and blazers:) The school tries to guide each student to find his/her passion to make a constructive contribution to our planet. If you are not familiar with the school, I think you would enjoy. The Head is Peter Fayroian. With respect and warm regards, David Hartman...
Sigh. David Brooks, sometimes you exhaust me. You seem like a lovely, well-intentioned, thoughtful person but like many Republicans, you lead with ONLY your head. You tend to want to machinate everything and are then left surprised to learn that people are complex creatures. Will you ever learn that when it comes to human behavior, things are not black/white?
What leaves a mark on people? There is no one formula, though you certainly identified many things that help drive a specific culture. For example, a shared identity and mission. Human connection. Sometimes, but I would argue not always, physical proximity. An altruistic goal.
Even so, those attributes alone do not always leave a mark. You know what tends to do it?
When the people at the top respect and value the individuals below as full participant and not mere cogs.
Your friend Joe Toscano seemed like he got it. He was, as you called him, a "community-building" guy. Those types of people have huge hearts and a drive to lift others up via encouragement, organization, service and outreach. They don't lead with a stick; instead, the show the carrot, and then teach you how to make it into a stew.
Barack Obama was such a guy. He believed in other people. He understood we are not all the same. He got we come into this world with various needs and abilities. He measured progress in the number included in the tent and not on the size.
When we begin to lead with purpose but also with love, great things happen.
What leaves a mark on people? There is no one formula, though you certainly identified many things that help drive a specific culture. For example, a shared identity and mission. Human connection. Sometimes, but I would argue not always, physical proximity. An altruistic goal.
Even so, those attributes alone do not always leave a mark. You know what tends to do it?
When the people at the top respect and value the individuals below as full participant and not mere cogs.
Your friend Joe Toscano seemed like he got it. He was, as you called him, a "community-building" guy. Those types of people have huge hearts and a drive to lift others up via encouragement, organization, service and outreach. They don't lead with a stick; instead, the show the carrot, and then teach you how to make it into a stew.
Barack Obama was such a guy. He believed in other people. He understood we are not all the same. He got we come into this world with various needs and abilities. He measured progress in the number included in the tent and not on the size.
When we begin to lead with purpose but also with love, great things happen.
1
You are describing Bryn Mawr College.
I could relate to this column. I was a camper, apprentice and counselor at Camp Hantesa in Iowa. The leadership when I was young was a trio of wise women who knew the power of tradition. They saw to it that we all learned each other's names - including the names of the youngest campers. A woman who was a camper with me took over the leadership from them for many years. They continue to have a group of old (not just former) campers who come back each summer for a week as campers and reunions to which the rest of us are welcomed at the end of each camping season. The poems, songs and sayings from those days are still with me even though I live too far away to get back often. Many of my extended family members have been to that camp. Not all such places are "thick" in your sense - but I can believe that your camp must have shared some of those features - caring leadership, lasting traditions and an emphasis on building friendships.
11
David Brooks neglects the 800 pound gorilla in the room.
Everything these days is measured by efficiency and profit. To be sure, elite institutions will continue to be thick, because its members can shoulder the cost.
But for the rest of us, where everything is being measured and tested and reduced to numbers, what we are left with is pretty thin gruel relative to a sense of belonging, or even wanting to belong.
I doubt there will be reunions of Uber drivers, or Amazon fulfillment center workers, or for-profit college grads. Everything solid in those places, is being melted into thin air -- because you can never be too thin, from the perspective of those making profit off such things. They tell us, "thin" means being flexible, nimble, and able to reinvent yourself in perpetuum.
Everything these days is measured by efficiency and profit. To be sure, elite institutions will continue to be thick, because its members can shoulder the cost.
But for the rest of us, where everything is being measured and tested and reduced to numbers, what we are left with is pretty thin gruel relative to a sense of belonging, or even wanting to belong.
I doubt there will be reunions of Uber drivers, or Amazon fulfillment center workers, or for-profit college grads. Everything solid in those places, is being melted into thin air -- because you can never be too thin, from the perspective of those making profit off such things. They tell us, "thin" means being flexible, nimble, and able to reinvent yourself in perpetuum.
50
Asking the two questions, says much. The bonding rituals of the institutions, suggest tradition; a value essential to Conservative doctrine. Progressives are constantly in search of change; progressing, I suppose. Perhaps that is why it is so hard for them to find those things that thicken us together.
3
'Thick' institutions don't need hazing to bond their members.
29
David, you have a great long list of thickitudinous qualities:
Music incorporated into daily attendance? Singing and dancing together? Initiation rites? Common love? Sports? Vertical Organization? Shared moral "ecology"? Secret badges, rings, uniforms?
Sacred guidebook? Common ideals, places, and lifetime recognition? Same retreat or facility? Shared tasks? Standing in formation? Members "closely watching each other" as membership becomes part of a person's identity?
David, shake your head. You've just described the Hitler Jugend in Riefentshler's "Triumph of The Will". Ah, nostalgia.
Music incorporated into daily attendance? Singing and dancing together? Initiation rites? Common love? Sports? Vertical Organization? Shared moral "ecology"? Secret badges, rings, uniforms?
Sacred guidebook? Common ideals, places, and lifetime recognition? Same retreat or facility? Shared tasks? Standing in formation? Members "closely watching each other" as membership becomes part of a person's identity?
David, shake your head. You've just described the Hitler Jugend in Riefentshler's "Triumph of The Will". Ah, nostalgia.
3
David,what you write of here, is my experience as well.A treasure of love
that lives in the soul. Thank you for your heart which often shines through
the necessity to fill the page with words.
that lives in the soul. Thank you for your heart which often shines through
the necessity to fill the page with words.
1
A thick institution can also engender groupthink and uncritical acceptance of a bad actor or bad idea under its banner. Perhaps there would have been fewer victims at Penn State, or in some Catholic dioceses, if these institutions were a little less thick.
7
Please be aware of the gender bias in the term "fireman". The term "firefighter" is used to refer to both men and women. It is important to recognize the importance of words to be inclusive of all of your audience.
http://www.nfpa.org/news-and-research/fire-statistics-and-reports/fire-s...
http://www.nfpa.org/news-and-research/fire-statistics-and-reports/fire-s...
5
I found myself torn when I read this. I've been part of only a few "thick organizations" in my life, and I recognized them immediately from Mr Brooks' description. On the other hand, I've witnessed firsthand the exclusion that accompanies so many of these. You want your heart broken, watch your 6 and 4 year old daughters return home after being told they couldn't participate in the neighborhood Easter Egg hunt, put on by the "thick organization" of people who belonged to a church we did not attend.
Thick organizations require leadership or, at a minimum, a common value system that embraces inclusion and equality, whether that means elevating the least among themselves, or bringing the high and mighty down to earth. Far too many people find themselves permanently red-lined to the margins, the very thickness of these organizations making them impenetrable because of skin color, religion, sexual orientation... you know the list. It's no wonder so many turn to their own insular groups, their common attribute becoming their common bond. It's also no wonder so many become loners, or adopt an every man for himself stance.
At this time of my life I yearn for the closeness and support described in this article. I find it only fleetingly, and rarely among those I don't recognize.
Thick organizations require leadership or, at a minimum, a common value system that embraces inclusion and equality, whether that means elevating the least among themselves, or bringing the high and mighty down to earth. Far too many people find themselves permanently red-lined to the margins, the very thickness of these organizations making them impenetrable because of skin color, religion, sexual orientation... you know the list. It's no wonder so many turn to their own insular groups, their common attribute becoming their common bond. It's also no wonder so many become loners, or adopt an every man for himself stance.
At this time of my life I yearn for the closeness and support described in this article. I find it only fleetingly, and rarely among those I don't recognize.
46
Dear Jim,
I had tears in my eyes after reading your post about your two small daughters not being allowed to participate in the NEIGHBORHOOD Easter Egg Hunt because it was sponsored by a church you and your family did not attend. It is this kind of hypocrisy and meanness that puts me over the edge. What kind of message did this church give your daughters? Why call is a neighborhood event when clearly is was a church event. But mainly, your heart was broken because your daughters were told they did not belong or were not welcomed . . . and on Easter of all days. How unchristian was that act by those church members? My heart breaks for you.
29
I agree totally and have discovered that the US is a land of "thick cliques," including within political parties, one of which I have been involved with for a long time. "Movers and shakers" use the party as a stepping stone for their resumes, contribute nothing, and/or walk all over the sincere "doers."
Animal rescue groups are comprised of people who love animals and often abuse their volunteers. School staff ignore the volunteers giving time to children in need; volunteers are viewed often as unpaid serfs, the bottom of the hierarchy. In this for-profit capitalist society, volunteers are viewed as suckers and chumps with no rights.
Churches seem overall to dislike single women, though there are exceptions, which are rare IMHO. Friends seem to be in their tribal family bubbles. Try to experience Christmas as a single person with no family; it's very depressing, mostly because of the lack of generosity and sensitivity on the part of the shredded community. Some neighborhood churches offer Thanksgiving dinner, however, they have an agenda: conversion.
Those of us who are "different" in any way at all must carefully navigate the social minefields for our mental health if we do not wish to be routinely disrespected, marginalized, and heartbroken.
The best experience I have had with a "thick" and inclusive organization was volunteering with the Rainbow Coalition when it was active. Everyone was welcome.
Very sad commentary on the U.S. collective heart.
Animal rescue groups are comprised of people who love animals and often abuse their volunteers. School staff ignore the volunteers giving time to children in need; volunteers are viewed often as unpaid serfs, the bottom of the hierarchy. In this for-profit capitalist society, volunteers are viewed as suckers and chumps with no rights.
Churches seem overall to dislike single women, though there are exceptions, which are rare IMHO. Friends seem to be in their tribal family bubbles. Try to experience Christmas as a single person with no family; it's very depressing, mostly because of the lack of generosity and sensitivity on the part of the shredded community. Some neighborhood churches offer Thanksgiving dinner, however, they have an agenda: conversion.
Those of us who are "different" in any way at all must carefully navigate the social minefields for our mental health if we do not wish to be routinely disrespected, marginalized, and heartbroken.
The best experience I have had with a "thick" and inclusive organization was volunteering with the Rainbow Coalition when it was active. Everyone was welcome.
Very sad commentary on the U.S. collective heart.
20
I think leadership can dramatically affect the thick or thin nature of a group. I was a very active board member of our local education foundation for 6 years. Directed policy, was part of the design and execution of signature events, lead successful fundraising efforts. Like any volunteer group, we had "doers" and "talkers," but there was a thick quality to the group for 4 years. We had two good presidents (founding partners) in those 4 years. Then we had a changing of the guard. The new pres and veep were technically pretty good-- but the group became thin. By the time I left, there was no feeling of esprit de corps, people complained of burn-out, the "doers" felt unappreciated, our mission and passion was diluted by the negativity. The foundation just hangs on today. I still donate money and a bit of time, but it's more out of habit and a hope for some good to come, not out of any "thick" feelings. Great column David.
8
I experienced same with our local PTO. We created a really strong culture of inclusion and community and it took one petty-micro manager to blow it all to hell.
The good news is, though, the principal was fantastic so that the he was able to mitigate some of the nonesense
The good news is, though, the principal was fantastic so that the he was able to mitigate some of the nonesense
Add Texas A&M to any list of universities that are thick institutions with a distinctive micro culture. It's worked well for them I think.
I went to the University of Houston, and nowadays people from A&M and U of H often regard each other with a mutual appreciation. I think it's more than just having the fact of UT in common.
Many UH students are working or middle class kids from the Houston area, but in the 36 years Dave Williams was the golf coach UH won 16 national championships. On retirement he said that he watched the kids practice, and when a player was really on his game he did nothing but intently make a mental picture of what the kid did when things were working. Then he'd explain that to a kid who was off his game during a tournament.
I think Guy Lewis, the successful basketball coach during those years, also started with the strengths of his players, and that would inform the kinds of structure he'd impose.
A few years back I heard a UH student tell high school seniors that at most schools the school molds you, but at UH you reinvent the school. That rang true to me.
Two different approaches under which potential can flower, I suppose.
I went to the University of Houston, and nowadays people from A&M and U of H often regard each other with a mutual appreciation. I think it's more than just having the fact of UT in common.
Many UH students are working or middle class kids from the Houston area, but in the 36 years Dave Williams was the golf coach UH won 16 national championships. On retirement he said that he watched the kids practice, and when a player was really on his game he did nothing but intently make a mental picture of what the kid did when things were working. Then he'd explain that to a kid who was off his game during a tournament.
I think Guy Lewis, the successful basketball coach during those years, also started with the strengths of his players, and that would inform the kinds of structure he'd impose.
A few years back I heard a UH student tell high school seniors that at most schools the school molds you, but at UH you reinvent the school. That rang true to me.
Two different approaches under which potential can flower, I suppose.
8
Not confined to the South, but certainly reflective of the region Mentioning names of universities then proceeding never to say one word about academics, only sports. Somehow it fits in with people "growing up" and voting for Trump. Hysterical, actually.
I was a member of one such institution: It was a LaSalle Catholic School. A place where people truly felt included, valued and protected. The hallways of that building bring back beautiful memories. If only all people could experience such a thing at least once in their lives. It was my saving grace to have gone through there.
12
During my career I worked as an adjunct faculty member at twelve different universities for thirty years. All the universities I worked at marketed a thickness community to their students, but none of them delivered. The students were just numbers. Full time faculty members treated adjuncts like peasants. Thickness was just a slogan.
However the adjunct, the lowest of low on the pay scale with no job security offered a type thick community. We are like migratory workers in the Grapes of Wrath. We love the topics we teach. Teach passion and soulfulness. Wherever their are universities there are adjuncts. They teach most of the classes in American universities.
However the adjunct, the lowest of low on the pay scale with no job security offered a type thick community. We are like migratory workers in the Grapes of Wrath. We love the topics we teach. Teach passion and soulfulness. Wherever their are universities there are adjuncts. They teach most of the classes in American universities.
5
Adjunct faculty should be the ones protesting in the streets for the way they are treated. Even worse are the instructors who teach ESL. They earn much less than other subject faculty, they work in a for-profit business even if it's in a public university, and they are only part-time without benefits. Here in Califorrnia, it has gotten worse when the government passed a law saying that adjunct needed to be paid for prep time. All that did was lower their salary for teaching time.
1
My grandmother and grandfather touched many, many lives with their acts of kindness. They both belonged to altruistic organizations, but it was what they did personally not for their own benefit, but where they saw need that has stayed with me. I remember helping my grandmother deliver Christmas baskets of food she supplied herself to those who were in need of a little extra help at that time of year. It wasn't done as part of any organization, just a personal act of kindness.
It was not until after my grandfather's death that we knew he paid for school lunches for those unable to pay at a school in the countryside where most students were sons and daughters of hard working farmers, who sometimes had crops that failed and money and sometimes food were in short supply. When he died, the school sent a letter to my grandmother about what a great contribution he had made to those children's lives over the years, because he understood you could not learn if you are hungry. (This was before we had school lunch programs in my home state.) My grandfather also sponsored several relatives college educations. He was a man who had only a sixth grade formal education but highly valued education as a way out of poverty. He was a self made, and self educated man who left a mark on many people's lives because of his own personal altruism.
While many institutions have the ability to positively affect lives, it starts with a personal selfless commitment to serve "the higher good".
It was not until after my grandfather's death that we knew he paid for school lunches for those unable to pay at a school in the countryside where most students were sons and daughters of hard working farmers, who sometimes had crops that failed and money and sometimes food were in short supply. When he died, the school sent a letter to my grandmother about what a great contribution he had made to those children's lives over the years, because he understood you could not learn if you are hungry. (This was before we had school lunch programs in my home state.) My grandfather also sponsored several relatives college educations. He was a man who had only a sixth grade formal education but highly valued education as a way out of poverty. He was a self made, and self educated man who left a mark on many people's lives because of his own personal altruism.
While many institutions have the ability to positively affect lives, it starts with a personal selfless commitment to serve "the higher good".
51
Diana - thank you for sharing such a rich and poignant story about the caring and giving to others. The various acts generosity and grace by your grandparents not only helped individuals directly, but also indirectly. The memories and stories of their many expressions of love and concern to total strangers will continue on from generation to generation of the people they helped. This is the kind of example through actions which leave a mark on people. Your grandparents are the kind of role models much of present day society seems to be lacking. Their actions truly define the phrase "Paying it Forward".
2
All Brooks describes here are mainstream white (mostly conservative) males like himself. So in essence, it's at least in large part, another David Brooks endorsement of the status quo. Charmed, I can assure you.
3
Walter: Then please describe the thick organizations that you cherish and tell us in which ways they are essentially different from the ones David Brooks describes.
2
Another factor is time - a sense of shared history, being part of something that has endured and honors its own history. The Incarnation Camp is such a place. I have been to a number of retreats there over the years and I am always struck by the feeling that I'm in a now familiar place that changes gradually, but retains a grounding in what has gone before. There's a sense of being part of something that might well endure after I have left. That's a rare experience today.
I really like Brooks, especially his dialogue with Shields on the Newshour. However his articles on character or temperament often read like pop psychology; perhaps some research-based commentary would better serve this interest. Given his penchant for such moralizing, it is astounding that he doesn't consistently understand that Trump has no core philosophy, but shoots from his narcissistic hip. Last week he was trying to find positive trends in Trump's pronouncements of the moment, which reflects Brooks' own orientation to political philosophy more than anything about Trump.
3
From what I've seen and read there are few pundits who are tougher on Trump than David Brooks. The fact that he is willing to recognize positives when they can be found merely speaks to his fair-mindedness, something often missing in punditry.
All this sounds like a good labor union to me. Too bad David Brooks didn't belong to one.
7
Apparently this constitutes the thinking of one of the self-proclaimed intellectuals of our time.
It is a moving story, though.
It is a moving story, though.
1
In other words "Cults"
As usual you tend to et carried away with some platonic /messianic vision of human perfection in action.
There are a lot of competent caring folks out there on the Planet Earth achieving geat things for the common well being on a daily basis
There are not enough of them to even put a tiny dent in our world wide dystopia.!
Way too many stupid lost souls and growing exponentially.
As usual you tend to et carried away with some platonic /messianic vision of human perfection in action.
There are a lot of competent caring folks out there on the Planet Earth achieving geat things for the common well being on a daily basis
There are not enough of them to even put a tiny dent in our world wide dystopia.!
Way too many stupid lost souls and growing exponentially.
2
I still insist my tribe (thick or thin as it is) is better than your tribe.
6
I think the people most inclined to participate in "thick organizations" have personal and working lives that have stability. They have health insurance, they aren't fearing eviction, or bankruptcy. When mental health or addiction issues arise they have resources they can call upon to help. Large percentages of American lack these essential things and will never benefit from being involved in organizations such as the one's Mr. Brooks describes. Instead they will stay on the margins of society. Only the margins are getting thicker and thicker until those in the middle are really just on an island for themselves.
51
I think you hit on a pertinent point. Thick organizations are hard to find. And hard to get into once you recognize what a value they are. We've become a society of rootless, commitment-less jobs, where the hours are unsteady, and the benefits are few. People are tossed out after years of service - quickly and ruthlessly...it's hard to develop relationships that stick in that environment. That's part of what the 1% rebellion was all about. The profits that make communities good places to live are being sucked out by rabid tax thieves-which then reduces our living standards. They take and don't give back. Then they make laws where it's harder to move ahead and create stability for our families. This goes deeper than being kind. It's easier to be kind when you have something to be kind with...
I benefited from a Wheaton education (even though ours was a farm family on hard times), thanks to the Illinois State Scholarship System. It awarded me a competitive means-tested scholarship that paid for four years of tuition. I graduated in 1962 without a dollar of debt.
At their best, I think Unions are exactly the sort of "thick" organization Brooks describes. As a member of the Theatrical Stage Employees Union, IATSE Local 15, for 30 years, I have felt proud to be part of a tradition that preceded me, will outlive me, and to which I felt I have contributed and made a small difference. I wish that more people could share that sense of the value of a working life. It humbles and empowers at the same time.
43
Corporations try to build thick teams, especially among their salesmen. Companies that are pyramid schemes to some, but not to their lawyers, such as Amway, have building such teams as a central method of operation. Some bands of brothers are bands of thieves who use the strength of their solidarity to harm those outside the team or on other teams. And some thick teams, such as Scientology, use their very thickness to imprison their members.
A thick team that is part of a profit-making enterprise is often a carefully-sustained illusion for those at the top, and real for those not at the top until the plug is pulled. Thick teams can be abusive and abused, and this abuse is encouraged in environments where the ultimate standard is shareholder value.
A thick team that is part of a profit-making enterprise is often a carefully-sustained illusion for those at the top, and real for those not at the top until the plug is pulled. Thick teams can be abusive and abused, and this abuse is encouraged in environments where the ultimate standard is shareholder value.
7
"John the Cop" came to mind as I read the article. I'm not sure if it was like this in other cities in America during my youth in the 40's and early 50's. But we had neighborhood policemen (cops) that had walking patrols throughout the city of 80,000 that I lived in.
John, never knew his last name, seemed to just show up, say hello, and move on. It's odd to me that I can remember him to this day. It wasn't as though he made a big to do, a very quiet man. I guess our town was keeping a good eye on the kids. Mom's were grateful I'm sure for those extra set of eyes.
Thank you John the Cop.
John, never knew his last name, seemed to just show up, say hello, and move on. It's odd to me that I can remember him to this day. It wasn't as though he made a big to do, a very quiet man. I guess our town was keeping a good eye on the kids. Mom's were grateful I'm sure for those extra set of eyes.
Thank you John the Cop.
4
Once again Brooks makes an unintended revelation--"Such institutions have a set of collective rituals — fasting or reciting or standing in formation. "
By that definition, Walmart is a thick institution. One early morning I was shopping in the children's clothing department at the back of the store. i came across the employee meeting, where everyone was gathered around and made to sing the company song, clap their hands, and publicly declare their happiness.
I found that repellant. And likely--no singing, no job.
Not so different from participation in the "voluntary" the prayers at the back of the state legislature before each session.
I realize Brooks is describing summer camp and the lasting friendships in a community-- but look at the sentence separated from the rest of the prose and convince me that he doesn't have a yearning for something ever so slightly authoritarian.
By that definition, Walmart is a thick institution. One early morning I was shopping in the children's clothing department at the back of the store. i came across the employee meeting, where everyone was gathered around and made to sing the company song, clap their hands, and publicly declare their happiness.
I found that repellant. And likely--no singing, no job.
Not so different from participation in the "voluntary" the prayers at the back of the state legislature before each session.
I realize Brooks is describing summer camp and the lasting friendships in a community-- but look at the sentence separated from the rest of the prose and convince me that he doesn't have a yearning for something ever so slightly authoritarian.
7
@mom
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
3
The ultimate "Thick Institution" is a Cult when the individual becomes the group. Where I come from, a Fireman can double their pay by doing over-time, some of it doing Community outreach (ie.camp reunion fishing derbies)or doing busy work around the station. That's reality.
8
David, I have two boys who attended a camp in Vermont, on a lake for several years as campers, 4th grade through their junior year in high school. They took one year off. The summer after high school graduation they were on staff every summer, for 10 weeks, through college. One of them is now studying at the Yale School of Forestry. They respect nature. They love the natural world. I am thankful for that now that I read in this paper that the Great Barrier Reef is dead and a Yukon river has engaged in river piracy, all due to climate change, just today. You can have your thick and thin organizations David. I am going to go with nature, ultimately she will win.
2
He sounds like a wonderful, loving person. Best wishes to his family.
But, the only " thick " here is your premise, and convoluted digs at non- conservatives. Please, give it a rest. Bigly.
But, the only " thick " here is your premise, and convoluted digs at non- conservatives. Please, give it a rest. Bigly.
6
In 1981, I worked as a waiter at Jim McMullens, a restaurant on New York's Upper East Side. It's the thickest organization I've known. We never pocketed our tips. Instead waiters tossed their tips into a large champagne bucket. On the floor, there was never a sense of "this is my section." Each employee became responsible to all employees. We helped each other out all shift long. Our service was outstanding. The entire kitchen shared in the tips as well the cashier, dishwasher and of course, the most important workers on the floor of any restaurant, the busboys (men/women). At the end of the night the staff gathered in the private dining room for a cocktail or three while the person who drew the short straw had to count and distribute the money. No one looked over anyone else's shoulder when it came to cash. We made more money as a team than we would have working alone. We had a blast. As happens in NYC restaurants, we went our separate ways over the years.. We became professors, lawyers, dedicated teachers in tough public school districts, actors, dancers, Harvard Business School graduates and one of us went on to create lead roles on Broadway including in Les Miserable. After 35 years we still come together because what we had was special -- a thickness I suppose -- and to this day, it's the best job and era most of us have ever known.
148
Great story Ralph. I think it was in part due to your youth, but also the time in which you were a young man. The 70s and 80s sometimes get maligned. But I look back upon them with a love and respect for how communal we all were-- a tribe in the best of ways.
1
Thank you for sharing such a wonderful experience.
Dear Ralph,
Loved your letter. Brought back many fond memories. I worked at the Four Seasons hotel restaurant in San Francisco in the early 1980's. Worked with men and women from all over the world: Nicaragua, Guatemala, Mexico, Venezuela, Colombia, Poland, Greece, Italy, Spain, Canada, Iran, Pakistan, Hong Kong, The Philippines.... Men and women straight and gay. But all with a common purpose: to serve people with dignity and pride. We considered ourselves professionals. One of the waiters, Stanley, who served in the Polish military from 1939-1945, had been a waiter at the hotel for more than 30 years. I remember his retirement dinner at the hotel. He turned to me and said, John, I made it. The most elegant waiter I've ever known. Like some of your former mates, I went on to teach junior and senior high school English in Los Angeles. Completed Masters and Doctorate degrees, then taught for 15 years in teacher education at DePaul University [in your Chicago]. My time at the Four Seasons and in education were "thick" and rewarding experiences, serving others. No memories sweeter in memory than those Four Seasons days, when we were young, all of life just there, just ahead. In her book, Swing Time, Zadie Smith writes about having freedom in life, but as well the importance of meaning. I now live in Australia. I have freedom, and fashion from memory the meaning I enjoyed in life, waiting on tables, teaching in the classroom. Now, it's reading and writing.
Loved your letter. Brought back many fond memories. I worked at the Four Seasons hotel restaurant in San Francisco in the early 1980's. Worked with men and women from all over the world: Nicaragua, Guatemala, Mexico, Venezuela, Colombia, Poland, Greece, Italy, Spain, Canada, Iran, Pakistan, Hong Kong, The Philippines.... Men and women straight and gay. But all with a common purpose: to serve people with dignity and pride. We considered ourselves professionals. One of the waiters, Stanley, who served in the Polish military from 1939-1945, had been a waiter at the hotel for more than 30 years. I remember his retirement dinner at the hotel. He turned to me and said, John, I made it. The most elegant waiter I've ever known. Like some of your former mates, I went on to teach junior and senior high school English in Los Angeles. Completed Masters and Doctorate degrees, then taught for 15 years in teacher education at DePaul University [in your Chicago]. My time at the Four Seasons and in education were "thick" and rewarding experiences, serving others. No memories sweeter in memory than those Four Seasons days, when we were young, all of life just there, just ahead. In her book, Swing Time, Zadie Smith writes about having freedom in life, but as well the importance of meaning. I now live in Australia. I have freedom, and fashion from memory the meaning I enjoyed in life, waiting on tables, teaching in the classroom. Now, it's reading and writing.
I am suspicious of organisations that cause "individuals to adopt the identity of their microculture". I was born in communist Poland, and welll, sounds like indoctrination to me. Instead, why not cherish institutions that support people on their path towards developing and discovering their own individual identities, and their unique ways in which they can help others and contribute to the society.
4
Thank you for this piece. I will spend the day reviewing my thick institutions.
There were more than a few and I am grateful. Ignore the snarky remarks.
There were more than a few and I am grateful. Ignore the snarky remarks.
1
Mr. Brooks,
You should talk to your hardcore leftwing colleagues at the New York Times about respecting local cultures.
Whenever a liberal sees something he or she doesn't like in another part of the country - especially the South - they want to use the full might of the federal government combined with media smear tactics to crush any dissent.
You should talk to your hardcore leftwing colleagues at the New York Times about respecting local cultures.
Whenever a liberal sees something he or she doesn't like in another part of the country - especially the South - they want to use the full might of the federal government combined with media smear tactics to crush any dissent.
You're right. Lynching is still illegal.
4
What on Earth could you possibly be referring to? Are you so unreconstructed that you still resent the "War of northern aggression?" Because that's the only example I can think of that fits your complaint.
1
This article begs the question: Is the USA a thick or thin organization to you, dear citizen?
There is a great appeal to these kinds of "thick" organizations but there is also a big potential downside. It is far too easy for members to develop an attitude of superiority to those outside their group, to develop a dangerous sense of us vs. them, i.e. tribalism.
For example I have lived in states that have universities with "thick" cultures. The rivalries that develop can seem harmless but too often become toxic with the students and graduates from the university that is deemed more elite looking down on students and graduates from the university deemed less so, causing resentment similar to that which rural Trump voters have for urban residents. I have seen this lead to not only to bad feelings but also discrimination in hiring based not on qualifications but solely on which school the candidate attended. I have even seen coaches disparage the students from the rival university
Years ago my grandfather, who was a talented engineer, was denied a promotion that he clearly deserved. A manager took him aside to tell him he needed to join the Masons and wear a Masonic pin. My quiet, gentle grandfather decided to wear his Knights of Columbus pin instead. Needless to say he was never promoted until he changed jobs.
Most people have a deep need to belong to a "thick" organization that gives them a sense of belonging and identity but our society and those organizations need to find ways to address the toxic tribalism that too often arises.
For example I have lived in states that have universities with "thick" cultures. The rivalries that develop can seem harmless but too often become toxic with the students and graduates from the university that is deemed more elite looking down on students and graduates from the university deemed less so, causing resentment similar to that which rural Trump voters have for urban residents. I have seen this lead to not only to bad feelings but also discrimination in hiring based not on qualifications but solely on which school the candidate attended. I have even seen coaches disparage the students from the rival university
Years ago my grandfather, who was a talented engineer, was denied a promotion that he clearly deserved. A manager took him aside to tell him he needed to join the Masons and wear a Masonic pin. My quiet, gentle grandfather decided to wear his Knights of Columbus pin instead. Needless to say he was never promoted until he changed jobs.
Most people have a deep need to belong to a "thick" organization that gives them a sense of belonging and identity but our society and those organizations need to find ways to address the toxic tribalism that too often arises.
99
I completely agree. I read all that about uniforms, pins, secret languages and initiations, and all I could think was -- ugh, sororities and fraternities. And how they so often (not all members, but many) look down on those in a different group, or those not in the groups at all. No thanks. Common courtesy, kindness to others and simple respect for human dignity do not need a group.
1
I want to write a new Bible, it's brief, but here it is:
Take Care Of Yourself
Take Care Of Each Other
Take Care Of This Planet
Take Care Of Yourself
Take Care Of Each Other
Take Care Of This Planet
5
.... loyalty.... "snitches wear stitches...."
love makes a bond....
thus, we must love one another...
love makes a bond....
thus, we must love one another...
1
Brooks gives new meaning to "thick" and an insight as to why he's a republican.
Thick institutions become part of a person’s identity: head, hands, heart and soul like 4-H clubs. Thick institutions have meeting places like Munich beer halls; rituals, reciting or standing in formation like North Koreans; shared tasks which involve members closely watching one another like the Stasi; difficult initiation rituals like college fraternities; sacred guidebooks like Bibles or Korans; jargon and phrases like the Masons and other 'secret' societies; juvenile monikers, maybe messages in code; uniforms, flags, rings, bracelets, secret underwear like the military, Boy Scouts or other male gang paraphernalia and tattoos.
The Lord-of-the-Flies aspect, the mind-free juvenalia is creepy. The submission of an individual to a group that "marks" him and to which he must adhere through the above signs and signals or, it is implied, be reaccommodated, is not group love or truly belonging.
But this is an insight into Brooks' slant on things. It's been a puzzle how a person as seemingly even, curious and mostly reasonable as Brooks could be such a dyed-in-the-wool republican.
It must be all the pageantry and majesty surrounding the likes of McConnell and Ryan, the brilliance of those like Senator Snowball, the love of flag and flag lapel pins, the pledge of allegiance, the Norquist tax pledge, the homogeneous party of no, the mysterious, mindless magnetism of boy Trump.
I get it now.
Thick institutions become part of a person’s identity: head, hands, heart and soul like 4-H clubs. Thick institutions have meeting places like Munich beer halls; rituals, reciting or standing in formation like North Koreans; shared tasks which involve members closely watching one another like the Stasi; difficult initiation rituals like college fraternities; sacred guidebooks like Bibles or Korans; jargon and phrases like the Masons and other 'secret' societies; juvenile monikers, maybe messages in code; uniforms, flags, rings, bracelets, secret underwear like the military, Boy Scouts or other male gang paraphernalia and tattoos.
The Lord-of-the-Flies aspect, the mind-free juvenalia is creepy. The submission of an individual to a group that "marks" him and to which he must adhere through the above signs and signals or, it is implied, be reaccommodated, is not group love or truly belonging.
But this is an insight into Brooks' slant on things. It's been a puzzle how a person as seemingly even, curious and mostly reasonable as Brooks could be such a dyed-in-the-wool republican.
It must be all the pageantry and majesty surrounding the likes of McConnell and Ryan, the brilliance of those like Senator Snowball, the love of flag and flag lapel pins, the pledge of allegiance, the Norquist tax pledge, the homogeneous party of no, the mysterious, mindless magnetism of boy Trump.
I get it now.
26
For me, the kind of mark left on people has always been from their actions rather than their affiliation with any particular organization. Whether it be a fireman who saved someone from a burning building or a kitten (and its owner) up a tree or a park ranger and group of volunteers who helped locate a lost child who wandered off in the woods, or a stranger who helped a stranded motorist on the highway with a flat tire, it is the actions of these individuals which will leave a mark on the people they helped out.
Every day of my life I either witness or take part in some simple or small gesture of kindness and/or assistance towards another human being or animal. It is these acts and the almost knee-jerk response to help someone which leaves a permanent mark on people. Any fireman or police officer will tell you that whenever they respond to a call and either help or save a life, they did it because it was their job - pure and simple. They almost get embarrassed when adorned with praise and platitudes.
The kind of organization is less import than the actions and attitude of its members and people in general.
57
Dear God. I thought David Brooks was more instinctively kind than this.
He advocates "thick" institutions that lead people to fast, or recite doctrine, or stand "in formation." And the graphic introducing the article shows a bunch of men, in line, in uniform. Great.
Mr. Brooks, once again. Do you know that women exist? Ever noticed one? Hmm, you enjoy "sacred origin stories." How often do they include females?
You don't know beans about colleges. The culture of each college is reformed annually, daily, by the administrators, professors, adjuncts, and students. Many of the students and professors are women. Everything changes year by year. Sorry.
So. You propose that disparate, messy (liberal?) organizations promote weak, loose horizontal alliances, while those in the "thick" cultures are more focused and aimed to serve a "higher good."
How often is that "higher good," that hierarchy, defined by the men in the group, darlin'', and organized for their benefit?
I prefer the horizontal mess you despise. And I expect Jesus Christ did too (see: Sermon on the Mount). And Christ was REALLY interested in the higher good.
I once had faith that David Brooks was not this stupid. I am no longer a believer.
He advocates "thick" institutions that lead people to fast, or recite doctrine, or stand "in formation." And the graphic introducing the article shows a bunch of men, in line, in uniform. Great.
Mr. Brooks, once again. Do you know that women exist? Ever noticed one? Hmm, you enjoy "sacred origin stories." How often do they include females?
You don't know beans about colleges. The culture of each college is reformed annually, daily, by the administrators, professors, adjuncts, and students. Many of the students and professors are women. Everything changes year by year. Sorry.
So. You propose that disparate, messy (liberal?) organizations promote weak, loose horizontal alliances, while those in the "thick" cultures are more focused and aimed to serve a "higher good."
How often is that "higher good," that hierarchy, defined by the men in the group, darlin'', and organized for their benefit?
I prefer the horizontal mess you despise. And I expect Jesus Christ did too (see: Sermon on the Mount). And Christ was REALLY interested in the higher good.
I once had faith that David Brooks was not this stupid. I am no longer a believer.
14
I think you have missed something and it is a mistake to simply identify liberal organizations as thin and conservative as think. We were on college tours last week and visited U of Chicago. My response to my visit there was "I am so glad to go to a college that is clear who they are happy to say it. I don't know if it is the right place for my son but it was nice to be a place that wasn't trying to be all things to all people. " I really liked the way U of C was "thick". As I think about thick organizations in my life, one of the best at being thick is a liberal school that is very comfortable in who they are. Yes, some of the elements Brooks cites may be used in a way that you (and I) might disagree with. But he does know beans about colleges and, as I travel about with my third child to l look at schools, I am happy to find schools who are clear about their identity and it is not just serving wealthy, white males. There are other ways to create identity and vibrant institutions are realizing that in today's world. The challenge in today's world is to find the things that Brook's describes as "thick" and use them to strengthen the institutions that are meaningful and important to you. Or that's what I take from it.
16
Amy, our sons visited colleges about fifteen years ago. We took them on the tours. U of Chicago is a great place, and Chicago is a powerful, towering city. Though U Chicago is fundamentally conservative, in some ways, you know (for years it chose and taught The 100 Best Books in the World to every undergrad).
You do know that UC is tucked against the South Side, right? And the South Side is an African-American neighborhood bloodied by gun deaths, that U of Chicago resists by sharply defining its boundaries and keeping close to the Frank Lloyd Wright Robie House?
I'm sorry, but I really don't think it's a good thing when schools are sharply clear about their identities. Undergraduates should wander and explore. I realize and appreciate that's a luxurious, privileged idea. And expensive. Yet lots of Americans have tried it. And I wish your sons joy in their classes (sincerely).
You do know that UC is tucked against the South Side, right? And the South Side is an African-American neighborhood bloodied by gun deaths, that U of Chicago resists by sharply defining its boundaries and keeping close to the Frank Lloyd Wright Robie House?
I'm sorry, but I really don't think it's a good thing when schools are sharply clear about their identities. Undergraduates should wander and explore. I realize and appreciate that's a luxurious, privileged idea. And expensive. Yet lots of Americans have tried it. And I wish your sons joy in their classes (sincerely).
1
I liked this piece. Simple. Thoughtful. Relevant. It illumuninated why I still feel connected with my friends from years ago when I worked at Saatchi. And it added additional light on a career situation I am currently considering. Of leaving.
That being said. What is it? What is it that when I read a few of the comments I see that this Op-Ed became another political barfing board?
Perhaps it is paradigm.
That being said. What is it? What is it that when I read a few of the comments I see that this Op-Ed became another political barfing board?
Perhaps it is paradigm.
4
I have the good fortune to know a group of firemen who selflessly put their lives on the line for the sake of others and represent the best of a 'thick institution'. The friendship, loyalty, courage and support they share with each other is amazing as they assist strangers and at the same time, keep each other safe.
2
Yesterday I was a Rockaway Beach lifeguard, on the ocean, the real thing. That was almost 50 years ago. But I'll always be that lifeguard. It's on my skin and in my hair. I am covered with it, still, regardless of all the other paths I have walked down. There was a mutual dependency on each other for our safety as well as the lives off those we pulled from near-death, a foxhole bond that has never left me, as well as the unique rituals and language that went with the job and marked who we were.
The adage is if you save one life it's as though you saved all mankind. We did that. It was a privilege. Everyone should be a lifeguard at some time in their life. Brooks nailed it again.
The adage is if you save one life it's as though you saved all mankind. We did that. It was a privilege. Everyone should be a lifeguard at some time in their life. Brooks nailed it again.
7
Because our nation has more than one school named St. John's, it's worth mentioning that Brooks is referring to St. John's College in Annapolis and Santa Fe, where Brooks visited and spoke recently.
2
another insightful article on a non political topic. I have found Penn State ( I am neither an alum nor a parent of an alum, no personal connection whatsoever) to be one of the "thickest", students love it so much they seem to be in a cult , and adults retain their love despite years away from the place. It now makes sense to me: Joe Pa ( no matter his flaws) encouraged a sense of service to the world, and I think their annual Thon also encourages working for a better good. good stuff
Well, Joe Pa's flaws were pretty big considering he turned a blind eye to child sexual abuse. That, for me, negates any sense of service he encouraged.
5
How sweet that you describe Penn State and Joe Pa "non-political." Please.
5
How about your favorite institution, Mr. Brooks, the Republican Party? . That's one heck of a thick organization, isn't it? Thick with liars, thieves, racists, homophobes, misogynists, xenophobes, faux Christians, and just nasty, selfish authoritarian crypto fascist political prostitutes intent on reducing their fellow Americans to serfs at the behest of their one percent owners. We know you look for other things to write about, other then the fact that YOUR party knowingly installed a psychopathic traitor as president, but despite all the "thoughtful" and "touching" sociological fluff pieces, we won't forget what YOU and YOUR fellow Republicans did. And we will remember come November 2018, and 2020.
9
To me, the thick organization sounds creepy and brainwashy. Certain types of people buy into stuff like that fully and easily, other types won't ever.
10
Mr. Brooks,
Please write about the moment you are living in! You have shown you are capable of it. You have also recently shown you are capable of shrugging off the restrictive mental blinders of the Republican party and speaking truth to the dangerous lies of Trump and, even worse in many ways, the Republicans who support him.
This was actually a good article. But it's not the time for it. Write about our world in crisis right now.
People read you
You have influence
Use it!
Please
Please write about the moment you are living in! You have shown you are capable of it. You have also recently shown you are capable of shrugging off the restrictive mental blinders of the Republican party and speaking truth to the dangerous lies of Trump and, even worse in many ways, the Republicans who support him.
This was actually a good article. But it's not the time for it. Write about our world in crisis right now.
People read you
You have influence
Use it!
Please
Readers beware, there are more than one type of "thick" institution. There definitely does exist the type of deeply caring, mutually supportive, dedicated group, with a long trans-generational (and renewable) half-life described. That I hope is a fair encapsulation of what Mr. Brooks is talking about.
Be careful not to confound this thick institution with the ilk of other institutions like the Freedom Caucus, an enclave of clueless sticks in the mud stuck inside the U.S. House of Representatives' current Republican majority or, generally speaking, the American Enterprise Institute. These, and others like them are "thick" institutions too, but in an entirely different way. They are thick in the head.
Mr. Brooks beware now, your own language in this column is dangerously transparent and does not attempt to dissimulate your meaning. By writing panegyrics for cohesive social units that characterised by their deep sense of belonging, by unhesitating individual altruism that shines through their ranks, not to mention by the "easiness" with which identification and shouldering of whatever role within the organisation best suits one's abilities occurs, you seriously risk alienating any remainder of your friends who live in a certain bubble. I mean those who still swear up, down and sideways that Ayn Rand was some kind of philosopher or animal ethologist. She was not. You know it. I know it. I am nonetheless surprised.
Be careful not to confound this thick institution with the ilk of other institutions like the Freedom Caucus, an enclave of clueless sticks in the mud stuck inside the U.S. House of Representatives' current Republican majority or, generally speaking, the American Enterprise Institute. These, and others like them are "thick" institutions too, but in an entirely different way. They are thick in the head.
Mr. Brooks beware now, your own language in this column is dangerously transparent and does not attempt to dissimulate your meaning. By writing panegyrics for cohesive social units that characterised by their deep sense of belonging, by unhesitating individual altruism that shines through their ranks, not to mention by the "easiness" with which identification and shouldering of whatever role within the organisation best suits one's abilities occurs, you seriously risk alienating any remainder of your friends who live in a certain bubble. I mean those who still swear up, down and sideways that Ayn Rand was some kind of philosopher or animal ethologist. She was not. You know it. I know it. I am nonetheless surprised.
"As I was thinking about my list of traits, Angela Duckworth of the University of Pennsylvania shared with me a similar list"
Yeah, Dave, I sincerely believe that's the order that events took. i deny that you did a superficial reading of something and used it to belch out another column again.
Yeah, Dave, I sincerely believe that's the order that events took. i deny that you did a superficial reading of something and used it to belch out another column again.
David your column so resonated with me. My "thick" organization is an international camp for teenagers where I have worked for 19 years. To watch the connections made during the summer is heartwarming. The owners started out as young, inexperienced counselors so they know and keep the fires burning. I am nearly 50 years older than most who teach activities. But the campers can see me slinging around clay and wowing them when I work on the wheel. To them I am really old, but also with a young heart. We can laugh together, kid each other. At evening meetings we do silly things, even me. Campers grow up to be counselors; the connection and love is that deep. They make friends with kids from around the world. Their cell phones are locked away in the office safe so they can get to know one another, sing, dance, play, enjoy nature. It is a joyous bubble. I met a true friend there as do so many. Ah camp is only a month and a half away and how I look forward to it. It is a place of love, learning and deep connection and at the end how the tears flow...
Mr. Brooks you are a good man and I am sorry to hear about your loss. I don't always agree with you, but in your manners and thoughtfulness you give an opening for disagreement and humanity. Genuine caring and respect have often been lost in our society especially in a capitalist society where survival of the fittest seems to dominate everything. The world thrives on compassion and working together the lack of which may be our downfall as a society.
6
Mr. Brooks sounds like he is as humble, humane and empathetic as Presidential Apprentice Donald John Trump.
From the Republican Party to the University of Chicago to his sacred origins as a natural born Jewish citizen of Canada who made an exodus to the America of Chicago and New York, David seems to think that his path left a mark on most people.
Family blood is the thickest most basic human institution destiny designed by our biological DNA genetic evolutionary fit quest for fat, salt, sugar, water, habitat, sex and kin by any means necessary including conflict and cooperation and op-ed column writing.
From the Republican Party to the University of Chicago to his sacred origins as a natural born Jewish citizen of Canada who made an exodus to the America of Chicago and New York, David seems to think that his path left a mark on most people.
Family blood is the thickest most basic human institution destiny designed by our biological DNA genetic evolutionary fit quest for fat, salt, sugar, water, habitat, sex and kin by any means necessary including conflict and cooperation and op-ed column writing.
1
God rest Joey T.'s soul. Thick organizations build community around a shared story, one that may sound to some like it has elements of the fairy tale, but it's your fairy tale, so there! The story inevitably relies on characters that re-appear to bolster the mission of the community and to give substance to the fulfillment of that mission. Thick organizations leave handprints on the hearts of their members. Thanks, David, for sharing.
There is really important life information in David's essay here and I'm glad I read it.
I was especially glad near the end to see the remark, "If you’d asked him, are you doing this for the kids or for yourself, I’m not sure the question would have made sense."
Exactimundo. The really vital and lasting things in life combine, as David suggests, selfishness and selflessness don't they? Isn't awareness of that fact key to a meaningful human life?
Religions often attempt to obscure the truth of the above by claiming absolute selflessness for their founders or current leaders, but reality, it seems to me, suggests otherwise.
With very rare exceptions, when we do good for others, it's almost impossible not to benefit ourselves, though we may not immediately and explicitly recognize the benefit of so doing. That's what makes the world, or at least the good things in the world, go 'round!
I was especially glad near the end to see the remark, "If you’d asked him, are you doing this for the kids or for yourself, I’m not sure the question would have made sense."
Exactimundo. The really vital and lasting things in life combine, as David suggests, selfishness and selflessness don't they? Isn't awareness of that fact key to a meaningful human life?
Religions often attempt to obscure the truth of the above by claiming absolute selflessness for their founders or current leaders, but reality, it seems to me, suggests otherwise.
With very rare exceptions, when we do good for others, it's almost impossible not to benefit ourselves, though we may not immediately and explicitly recognize the benefit of so doing. That's what makes the world, or at least the good things in the world, go 'round!
I don't know what makes an institution "thick," but I'm certain about what makes an individual one. Republicans encapsulate it. Mr. Brooks, until quite recently, was a prime example.
All this is painfully, ruefully true. We bowl alone - or rather -we don't bowl any more. The gemeinschaft doesn't seem to work in urban or suburban settings. And the 'big belong' - known as patriotism is practically wiped out by vicious partisanship.
1
The bowling alone thing is kinda passe. Go to a bowling alley and see for yourself. Maybe more sociologists should go bowling.
Did I read this essay correctly? I thought I saw a sentence reading "Am I getting more out than I'm putting in?" Mr. Brooks should be more careful; at times he sounds like he's becoming an altruist when he writes of selflessness & selfishness marrying to fulfill one's purpose "to help others to have a good day".
Paul Ryan & the rest of the Ayn Rand acolytes in the GOP will force him to relinquish his "Conservative Card". In, fact he could be mistaken for a moderate Democrat or Republican!
By the way, I've been fortunate to have been involved in 2 thick organizations in the shape of the USMC & Journalism School at Ohio University, & I devoted my career to working in the thick institution of newspapers & magazines, whether it was helping to produce them or write them.
Paul Ryan & the rest of the Ayn Rand acolytes in the GOP will force him to relinquish his "Conservative Card". In, fact he could be mistaken for a moderate Democrat or Republican!
By the way, I've been fortunate to have been involved in 2 thick organizations in the shape of the USMC & Journalism School at Ohio University, & I devoted my career to working in the thick institution of newspapers & magazines, whether it was helping to produce them or write them.
1
I don't know you Manuel, but I wanted to comment on your Bobcats reverie. As a product of the never cry, always be tough working class, football culture, and the Vietnam era, I have an instinctive aversion to "thick" activities that have often bee predicated on those who are in vs those who are out. Having said that, I never attended OU, but our daughter did, and it seems I am always meeting people here in C-bus who, like our daughter, express so much love for OU and the deep (if not thick) connections it fostered. Not exactly how the school does it, but it seems to be working.
I remember "thick" organizations. They were the cliques in high school that excluded anyone who wasn't like them. They were the groups in the workplace that refused to allow others in or made newcomers' lives difficult. I'll take a loyal friend over those sorts of groups any day. I've read about other "thick" groups like the KKK, the Nazis, the inner circles of dictators, despots, ruling juntas, the Mafia, etc.
If, as a person you want to leave a positive memory of yourself with people, treat them with kindness, respect, and dignity. In fact, in life, I prefer to think of things this way even though I'm not religious. "Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares." It's the implication of kindness in this that catches my attention. It's also a reminder that we are all strangers at one time or another and that anyone, even a stranger, can be kindness personified. And we never know when or where we may need that kindness so it's a good idea to practice kindness. It's the unexpected kindness that often leaves a mark on people.
If, as a person you want to leave a positive memory of yourself with people, treat them with kindness, respect, and dignity. In fact, in life, I prefer to think of things this way even though I'm not religious. "Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares." It's the implication of kindness in this that catches my attention. It's also a reminder that we are all strangers at one time or another and that anyone, even a stranger, can be kindness personified. And we never know when or where we may need that kindness so it's a good idea to practice kindness. It's the unexpected kindness that often leaves a mark on people.
16
I had intended to make the same point, that is, that the qualities enumerated apply equally to the Red Guard, the Ku Klux Klan, the Weather Underground, the SS, and other ugly customers. We certainly see it at work in mob actions, whether those of Operation Rescue extremists harassing women at the door of Planned Parenthood or college students shouting down and shutting up a speaker who dares to voice a contrary opinion.
However, that is not in itself a reason to dismiss them. Despite Hen3ry's experiences - which have also been my own and are quite common - the qualities of 'thick' organisations are neutral, not negative per se. In fact, more often than not, the 'out' group members find or form an 'in' group.
Evolution has of necessity shaped H. sap as a social animal. The urge to bond and be part of a community is a necessary part of our nature. (Granted, I feel it somewhat less strongly than most people; whether that's because autism runs in my family or because, like Groucho, I wouldn't join any club that would have me as a member, is debatable.) The question is how to form positive 'thick' organisations, not just to denounce the tendency.
Hen3ry's second graf seems to me off topic, so the preceding responds to the first graf only.
However, that is not in itself a reason to dismiss them. Despite Hen3ry's experiences - which have also been my own and are quite common - the qualities of 'thick' organisations are neutral, not negative per se. In fact, more often than not, the 'out' group members find or form an 'in' group.
Evolution has of necessity shaped H. sap as a social animal. The urge to bond and be part of a community is a necessary part of our nature. (Granted, I feel it somewhat less strongly than most people; whether that's because autism runs in my family or because, like Groucho, I wouldn't join any club that would have me as a member, is debatable.) The question is how to form positive 'thick' organisations, not just to denounce the tendency.
Hen3ry's second graf seems to me off topic, so the preceding responds to the first graf only.
1
ACW, it may seem off but groups can also take heed of that: treating strangers with kindness because they don't know when they may need the same kindnesses extended to them. I think that in today's world, no matter where we are, we ought to be aware of how alike our needs are. Kindness, charity, thoughtfulness, etc., can be extended to people we don't know on the grounds that doing so, even as part of a group, will leave a mark on the group and the person, family, or group the kindness was given. Just as hatred leaves a scar, so does true kindness.
21
I'm not disputing that they can, Hen3ry. I'm saying that kindness, thoughtfulness, charity, etc. are secondary to the purpose of Brooks' column, which is to describe the qualities of a 'thick' organization. One can describe the parts and functions of a human body - the circulatory, muscular, skeletal systems, the muscles and organs - and explain why they are necessary to its function; however, that body could as easily be that of Josef Stalin as of Nelson Mandela. (I thought to use Stalin as a change from Hitler, the usual go-to guy in analogies of this type.) To point that out, and/or to mention that a Mandela would be preferable to a Stalin, is somewhat beside the original point Brooks was making.
1
For me, a tireless Brooks skeptic, this word porridge about a dubious binary dialectic seems more thin than thick. A modest assumption would be that "institutions" sit somewhere on a bell curve running from molasses thick to paper thin. The great bulk would exhibit a crude mix of Brooksian virtues (moral framework, a higher noble purpose, and sacred ritual) and corporate shallowness (self-interest, narrow goals). Do not misunderstand - I am all for "intimacy and identity borne out of common love", but this essay contrasts outliers, which is too easy. And where along this continuum does one find evil institutions like the Mafia or the KKK? Don't their members (mistakenly) believe they are serving the common good? The antidote for this kind of over-simplification is, according to the writer Douglas Todd, to practice "mature realism". That will thicken you up nicely!
9
No one wanted me in their groups, not the Shuls I have attended, the colleges and law schools or the judiciary. I am less for it and but for my wife, all alone.
2
I'm sorry duckshots, and I understand your feelings. I do hope that you find a group that accepts you but, if you don't, that you find the acceptance inside yourself.
2
Personally I found large universities to be the thinnest of institutions and my experience at 8-week Summer camp and my law firm to be the thickest. But thick institutions are also very exclusive clubs with exclusive values and memberships. You can probably make a straight line graph from nuclear family to national and then world citizen.
2
Thick organizations are also brought about by stress. I had a horrible job once. Horrible management, horrible pay, horrible expectations with no training, horrible atmosphere. My co-workers and I moved on as soon as possible but I still keep in touch with many of them because the stress and chaos bonded us. Sometimes we get together, I think, just to reassure each other that, yes, it really was that bad but we made it through.
Thick, in other words, can sometimes just be thick headed awful.
Thick, in other words, can sometimes just be thick headed awful.
4
"Those thrilling days of yesteryear" do not resonate anymore, at all. 9/11 is receding. The economic collapse is completely forgotten by all Trump/Republican supporters. In fact, there is no future on the front burners. Coal, de-regulation, racism, abortion, violence are interrupted with gestures: Obamacare, tax reform, thermonuclear war, and irrational bellicose leaders: not in DC or Marilogo.
Boy, what billions of free and Russian payed propaganda can do to any sense of outrage about Garland-Gorsuch, or tax returns. Everyone was thrilled about 59 rockets in Syria and a big bomb in Afghanistan? Right? But not that much. Not like what this column is stretching for. Identity is fading away.
When 70%, plus or minus, of professed Christians can find their way to supporting and approving of Donald Trump, shouldn't we be sending out missionaries for atheism, Buddhism, Islam? Democrat have proven an inability or unwillingness to really fight Trump and McConnell. Only Sanders and Warren are left. Only they have real flare, gumption and meme producing moments. Everybody has some thoughts about Medicare for All, Public option, free college, debt relief for college graduates, renewable energy, a rebuilt infrastructure. I had 5 firefighter uncles,decorated for heroism. They were selfless guys who all wanted college for capable kids, clean air and water, healthcare, an end to dependence on coal and oil, and greed among our leaders. They have all died. Decency did not die with them.
Boy, what billions of free and Russian payed propaganda can do to any sense of outrage about Garland-Gorsuch, or tax returns. Everyone was thrilled about 59 rockets in Syria and a big bomb in Afghanistan? Right? But not that much. Not like what this column is stretching for. Identity is fading away.
When 70%, plus or minus, of professed Christians can find their way to supporting and approving of Donald Trump, shouldn't we be sending out missionaries for atheism, Buddhism, Islam? Democrat have proven an inability or unwillingness to really fight Trump and McConnell. Only Sanders and Warren are left. Only they have real flare, gumption and meme producing moments. Everybody has some thoughts about Medicare for All, Public option, free college, debt relief for college graduates, renewable energy, a rebuilt infrastructure. I had 5 firefighter uncles,decorated for heroism. They were selfless guys who all wanted college for capable kids, clean air and water, healthcare, an end to dependence on coal and oil, and greed among our leaders. They have all died. Decency did not die with them.
My Freudian side loves these Mr. Brooks' mild flight of fancy dream pieces. They read like lil' ole timey '50s dream shtick (sorry: 'utilitarian calculus') with simple-stuff macho thrown in, and remind me of a Newt Gingrich pitch. Given what is actually going on today, one also reads these pieces as David still cloaking his struggles with his community choices, and not coming to grips with his GO-P morphed into T-P, and now Freedom-P and the increasing realization what they pitch is as real or as nourishing as stone soup.
4
“It fulfills your purpose to help others have a good day.” And you, Mr. Brooks? You have spent your career advancing the cause of the Republican Party with little sign of reservation or remorse until its transformation into the Party of Trump was well along. I suppose if the “others” you had in mind to help were plutocrats, you may regard your life and work with an easy conscience on that score. The rest of us, not so much.
9
The Republican Party, for whom Lord Brooks never stops shilling, is, in the words of Jethro Tull, "Thick as a Brick."
1
"In a thick organization selfishness and selflessness marry. It fulfills your purpose to help others have a good day."
Let's say the "thick organization" is the human race. We have an innate urge to help others, an urge that has helped our species thrive. If a stranger were choking on food, you'd do the Heimlich maneuver, right? This urge is stronger in some people, almost undetectable in others. Some of us understand that paying taxes so that everyone can have health care, education, a safe environment, etc., helps the whole group and therefore helps the giver, too. It would be nice if everyone could understand that.
Let's say the "thick organization" is the human race. We have an innate urge to help others, an urge that has helped our species thrive. If a stranger were choking on food, you'd do the Heimlich maneuver, right? This urge is stronger in some people, almost undetectable in others. Some of us understand that paying taxes so that everyone can have health care, education, a safe environment, etc., helps the whole group and therefore helps the giver, too. It would be nice if everyone could understand that.
7
St. John's College (Annapolis and Santa Fe), mentioned by Brooks, definitely left its mark on me, a proud graduate of this thick institution. St. John's and its pedagogy--learning by studying seminal texts in philosophy, science, literature and mathematics, understanding them through civil discourse and encouraging respect for different opinions--is one of the true loves of my life. Importantly, its non-elective curriculum requires students to courageously master subjects we might never have chosen at a standard institution. Through seminar-style classes, we contribute to shared learning, and courteously consider and discuss opposing viewpoints. Love, courage, persistence, respect, teamwork, courtesy....values that form the basis of successful living and behavioral skills sorely needed in today's culture.
3
The thickest group of all is a well-grounded family, with unique icons, rituals and characters to remind, reinforce and inspire. Think "Bluebloods:" post-Mass, the clan gathered around the homestead dining room, each family member in their place. It's what pulls me back every week, and I look for ways to build traditions and practices in my own family.
The absence of thick organizations outside of our homes is a fundamental flaw of Western and American society. Time for some new organizations and icons.
The absence of thick organizations outside of our homes is a fundamental flaw of Western and American society. Time for some new organizations and icons.
You remind us to recall our most impressionable experiences that make our lives rich and worth sharing with family and friends. And you tell it beautifully and I thank you for your insights.
Our country is at a point in history where we need another strong leader to guide us through. We haven't had one since FDR. We not only need a strong leader but a leader that will actually help the working class. Thick institutions, good or bad, just make us more tribal and closed off from free and open thinking. I doubt things will change any time soon since we are unable to fully fund properly our institutions such as education. An under educated populous tends to stay uninformed, easily manipulated, and just scared of the world.
3
"Thick organizations think in terms of virtue and vice. They take advantage of people’s desire to do good and arouse their higher longings."
So seen edge-on, the Republican party is invisible?
So seen edge-on, the Republican party is invisible?
I wonder if the number of "thick" organizations is truly on the decline or if they have gravitated to other forms. Young folks probably consider their largely electronic connections as "thick". This may explain the decline in community-based activities like the ones created and run by guys like Joe Toscano.
As for me, "thick" never had an appeal strong enough to draw me in. While the support, camaraderie and collective purpose was attractive, the rules, ceremonies and politics of leadership were not.
As for me, "thick" never had an appeal strong enough to draw me in. While the support, camaraderie and collective purpose was attractive, the rules, ceremonies and politics of leadership were not.
4
I've wondered about how the generation that's grown up with the internet views their electronic connections too. Then I remember a friend I made because of a poem she found and how her email started a relationship that continues to this day. We've never met face to face and probably won't because she has a serious illness that makes meeting face to face unlikely. However, we do communicate through Facebook and emails and I think there's a good deal of respect for each other and liking. Despite never meeting in person we do make each other laugh, give each other comfort, and share pieces of our lives.
30
I would hope thick institutions are mixed in terms of skin color and income, but I have a feeling that they are not way.
4
I'm always uncomfortable with Mr. Brooks moral wanderings, which always seem reduced to a dualism between competing values---thick and thin cultures. I tend to agree with Dewey, that dualistic thinking sets up moral, ethical, ideological systems that work well when leading a movement or pushing a political agenda, but, do not represent the reality of the lives we live. In this case all institutions have thick and thin qualities---there is no either/or. All organizations possess both thick and thin qualities and depending on the situation, leaders or managers or fathers or mothers or little leagues managers will lean on one or more features to achieve an organizational goal. Great leaders or great mothers, great fathers, and great camp counselors are skillful at knowing when to go "vertical" and when to go "horizontal."
1
Respectfully disagree. There are thick and thin institutions as defined by Brooks. I've worked at both. Leaders, great and lousy, come and go at institutions and while they may make a difference for a while, they rarely add to thickness. There's a timeline for thickness. Lee Iococca and Jack Welch had great runs, but there is little evidence they permanently changed anything at Chrysler and GE.
Businesses can be thick. I joined one, which was thrilling and satisfying, but then watched as the new leaders made it thin. I'm ashamed that I was part of the downfall, as I was young and confused by the culture I saw and thought that we should just focus on making more money while the deep intangibles the business had worked so hard to inculcate were best for personal lives. How wrong I was and now greatly miss the deep sense of community and purpose.
Further reflection shows that thick is driven by love and those who know it and are unafraid to express it. It sounds corny and out of favor in our current cultural malaise to say such but that is because that culture is sick. Look up today's WSJ's "Black Men Speaking Latin" for an example of what love can do. Consider Eagle and Girl Scouts. A close-knit family. But read many of the comments below that unintentionally reveal the symptoms of the illness: they say thick institutions are dangerous and unworthy, when it is what we long for and need.
Just because it is difficult and some institutions harm does not mean they are all evil and we must each live as islands. Like the human heart, institutions must be carefully built and rigorously maintained because we can do so much more with them than without them. I was wrong to believe differently.
Further reflection shows that thick is driven by love and those who know it and are unafraid to express it. It sounds corny and out of favor in our current cultural malaise to say such but that is because that culture is sick. Look up today's WSJ's "Black Men Speaking Latin" for an example of what love can do. Consider Eagle and Girl Scouts. A close-knit family. But read many of the comments below that unintentionally reveal the symptoms of the illness: they say thick institutions are dangerous and unworthy, when it is what we long for and need.
Just because it is difficult and some institutions harm does not mean they are all evil and we must each live as islands. Like the human heart, institutions must be carefully built and rigorously maintained because we can do so much more with them than without them. I was wrong to believe differently.
3
So happy to see this! This is exactly what I have been thinking lately. Here is the bad news. The US of A will never become a "thick organization"! No point to waste time on arguing. Secession is the solution! In fact, there are many "thick cities/communities" already such as Boulder, Austin, etc. Liberals may talk about inclusions but they tend to live in exclusive communities. At least I am honest! Homogeneity is beauty and it is the foundation of any "thick organization". Just to be clear, yes I am partisan because I always vote Democrats. No, I didn't vote for Trump. I voted for Hillary with pride. Just wondering how many of those liberals truly supported our democratic tickets?! Now they are whining.
Because I realized the ugly side of human nature, I am pessimistic about the future. We are not really dealing with social, economic or racial issues. The real issue is embedded in human genome. How can you ever fix it?!
Because I realized the ugly side of human nature, I am pessimistic about the future. We are not really dealing with social, economic or racial issues. The real issue is embedded in human genome. How can you ever fix it?!
1
Cheers to you David Brooks for continuing to reflect on the spiritual aspects of human life...in a very materialist culture.
5
1. How about some information about what "Incarnation summer camp" is?
4
if you can arrange it, be part of a loving family of eight siblings; a thickness like no other.
Why do I imagine that Joe Toscano did not watch Fox News or listen to Rush Limbaugh?
2
"You can love or hate such places. But when you meet a graduate you know it, and when they meet each other, even decades hence, they know they have something important in common."
2 men are in upscale bar talking. First says: I know we've just met, but I deduce you went to Harvard. Second, that's true, how did you know?
Well, you mentioned Harvard 7 times in the first 2 minutes of our conversation.
Interesting. I deduce you're from Dartmouth.
True. How did you know?
When you were picking your nose, I read your class ring.
2 men are in upscale bar talking. First says: I know we've just met, but I deduce you went to Harvard. Second, that's true, how did you know?
Well, you mentioned Harvard 7 times in the first 2 minutes of our conversation.
Interesting. I deduce you're from Dartmouth.
True. How did you know?
When you were picking your nose, I read your class ring.
The thick organization of St. Benedict's Prep in Newark, as one commenter noted, does wonderful work with young men who are, for the most part, at risk.
The thick organization of the Hitler Youth accomplished almost nothing but evil.
Mr. Brooks was writing about, if you will, form rather than content. The form of organizations is to be thick or thin. Were he to have addressed the content of what these organizations do, this would have been a different column.
One would think, or at least hope, that the intelligent readers of the opinion pages of The New York Times could make that distinction. Maybe not.
The thick organization of the Hitler Youth accomplished almost nothing but evil.
Mr. Brooks was writing about, if you will, form rather than content. The form of organizations is to be thick or thin. Were he to have addressed the content of what these organizations do, this would have been a different column.
One would think, or at least hope, that the intelligent readers of the opinion pages of The New York Times could make that distinction. Maybe not.
1
I prefer the word community I prefer the word community to the thick institution.
2
It seems like our current "thin institution" is the Trump presidency and the "thick" is that portion of America that wants this lying sorry excuse for a leader gone.
Through thick and thin indeed.
Through thick and thin indeed.
4
I would imagine the Hitler Youth or the Waffen SS were thick groups, too. Their bonds of good feeling and shared mission enabled members to do things none of them individually would even consider. Groups, whether "thick" or "thin" can be harnassed to do terrible things. Beware, David Brooks, you're letting your inner fascist show.
1
Joseph Campbell said something to the effect:
We work Monday through Friday...go to church on Sunday...and the psychiatrist on Monday.
Joe T. lived with both the thick and the thin just like you and me and capitalism and democracy. He was lucky to have the brain, the job and the circumstances that allowed him to live such a giving life. If you had asked Joe he would have told you he was the luckiest man in the world. We all know and admire people like Joe. We wish we were more like them. If you counted all the kids that attended this fishing camps they would be small compared to the people he touched in the same way each day with his kindness. Joe was one of those people who was able to get "Joe" out of the way. He would say he was lucky like that.
We work Monday through Friday...go to church on Sunday...and the psychiatrist on Monday.
Joe T. lived with both the thick and the thin just like you and me and capitalism and democracy. He was lucky to have the brain, the job and the circumstances that allowed him to live such a giving life. If you had asked Joe he would have told you he was the luckiest man in the world. We all know and admire people like Joe. We wish we were more like them. If you counted all the kids that attended this fishing camps they would be small compared to the people he touched in the same way each day with his kindness. Joe was one of those people who was able to get "Joe" out of the way. He would say he was lucky like that.
1
A favorite thick institution: the nonprofit Shakespeare Tavern playhouse in Atlanta, GA. I've been in a lot of schools and churches and civic organizations...when I was reading this article, the Tavern popped into my head first. There's a reason it has about 800 active volunteers in any given year. Yep, not a typo: 800!
A person's attitude toward an organization has much to do with whether their experience is thick or thin. Having attended a large state University, I have seen that some peoples experience has indeed been enabling and what you call thick and others had not benefitted in that way.
In the large institution, there are many subcultures that often provide the "thick". Many people find themselves because of the diversity provided in large universities.
In the large institution, there are many subcultures that often provide the "thick". Many people find themselves because of the diversity provided in large universities.
1
Good thoughts, but there is something else too. Some people get more out of a thick organization than do other people. Some people drift through even the thickest organization.
In that way, it must also be the people involved, not just the organization in which they are involved.
Perhaps there is an overlap, in the selection and/or self selection of people who get involved.
Individualism is a big part of this too. An organization can bring out what is in the individual, but it must be there to be brought out. Of course, a badly run organization can poison that in some of the best people.
However, I am committed to the idea of individualism, not groups and organizations that make people things they were not. No Soviet New Man. The individual comes first.
In that way, it must also be the people involved, not just the organization in which they are involved.
Perhaps there is an overlap, in the selection and/or self selection of people who get involved.
Individualism is a big part of this too. An organization can bring out what is in the individual, but it must be there to be brought out. Of course, a badly run organization can poison that in some of the best people.
However, I am committed to the idea of individualism, not groups and organizations that make people things they were not. No Soviet New Man. The individual comes first.
5
Thank you for reminding me to take the time to think about and appreciate the 'thick organizations' in my life. It made me realize how lucky I am.
Kathy Devlin Kelly
Kathy Devlin Kelly
I spent my working life in the thickest of organizations: symphony orchestras. The orchestra is an organism in which every disparate member must be individually excellent yet perform as a team, literally breathing in the same rhythm. It is like a football team or an elite military unit, and our lives in the band (at least psychically) depend on each other.
Having been in four of these things (no names!),I have also seen that leadership is crucial. A music director and/or conductor who is not in control of himself can't control the group (and the most effective control is that of the light touch, not the club). He (it is almost always a "he") must have a rare combination of mastery and humility, and an indefinable quality that elicits respect from the players.
I've worked in both conditions and incompetent leadership ---if you care about the outcome --- is a major frustration, and the most common failing of leadership is an out of control ego.
The parallels between this and far more momentous matters is obvious.
Having been in four of these things (no names!),I have also seen that leadership is crucial. A music director and/or conductor who is not in control of himself can't control the group (and the most effective control is that of the light touch, not the club). He (it is almost always a "he") must have a rare combination of mastery and humility, and an indefinable quality that elicits respect from the players.
I've worked in both conditions and incompetent leadership ---if you care about the outcome --- is a major frustration, and the most common failing of leadership is an out of control ego.
The parallels between this and far more momentous matters is obvious.
16
I worked with a local Americana music festival, not as a musician, but as someone who helped feed the musicians, picked up litter from the field, etc. I have played music less formally, but yes, yes, the joy of creating with others.
Thick/thin distinctions encourage more either/or. What happens to the critical thinker in a "thick" organization with a common origin story that while encouraging group cohesion, is not altogether true? Helping others to be their best selves is highly subjective work. Many "thick" cultures and organizations rely on exclusion to bolster inclusion.
6
If I reflect on what makes a thick versus a thin community I would add to your list: emerges and evolves organically, there are mediating institutions and the capability for the community to solve problems, people in the community are willing to struggle with people not like them (and they have tools for how to do that), there are locally owned businesses, government knows how to get out of the way of citizen initiatives, there are ways (other than spending money) to exchange value (barter), it is a place you can't race through, it is never possible to "plan" in a straight line - rather you need a method to manage the drift (consistent with the values and goals of the community), people need to perceive it is safe.
2
Perhaps it helps to turn the 'I' into 'We' when attempting to help one's neighbor. Here I would like to offer new fencing for my neighbors and me. This proposal engendered a duel of fencing between the men who volunteered for the task at a fairer price than doing business with 'The Mexicans'. These animated exchanges took place over my head wearing the cloak of invisibility.
High diplomacy is required and I am going for broke with an honest professional fence mender. Trying to please everyone is a losing proposition. We all agree that lawyers and doctors will bleed one dry, and I have just paid the town for the Water Bill. The Fire Department has put out another appeal for donations to their vocation. Beyond brave, they are courageous and need financial help to keep us safe in our homes.
How to Leave a Mark on People? An acquaintance once wrote of a friend 'there was something in his looks and in his voice and in his manner and in the goodness of his heart, I think, drew people to him and made them like him and listen to him, even against their will. I hadn't forgotten what he had done at that service. He hadn't made us feel we we was miserable sinners; or, as with most preachers, those outside was miserable sinners and our little lot was bound for heaven. He made us feel there was something good in the world and something good deep in everybody'.
This description reminds me of Jimmy Carter from a poor farm who went on to become a President of America.
High diplomacy is required and I am going for broke with an honest professional fence mender. Trying to please everyone is a losing proposition. We all agree that lawyers and doctors will bleed one dry, and I have just paid the town for the Water Bill. The Fire Department has put out another appeal for donations to their vocation. Beyond brave, they are courageous and need financial help to keep us safe in our homes.
How to Leave a Mark on People? An acquaintance once wrote of a friend 'there was something in his looks and in his voice and in his manner and in the goodness of his heart, I think, drew people to him and made them like him and listen to him, even against their will. I hadn't forgotten what he had done at that service. He hadn't made us feel we we was miserable sinners; or, as with most preachers, those outside was miserable sinners and our little lot was bound for heaven. He made us feel there was something good in the world and something good deep in everybody'.
This description reminds me of Jimmy Carter from a poor farm who went on to become a President of America.
3
Until Obama, Carter was the worst president in our nation's history.
To quote Truman Capote, an American author and a capitalist, 'Darling do not let me commence' for if both of us were right, one of us would be wrong.
Anglo-American management has long been preoccupied with ways and means, rather than purposes and ends. When the business schools were reformed in the 1950s management academics were concerned that they be seen as scientists rather than as moralists. They said in effect, “Given your ends, whatever they may be, the study of administration will help you achieve them. We offer you tools.” The emphasis has been on human individuals as rational actors making rational choices in the pursuit of selfish ends. As management scholar James March has remarked, we have been preoccupied with ‘plumbing’ rather than ‘poetry’, with the logic of consequences, what the economists call utility, to the neglect of the many logics of identity. For despite the economists’ emphasis on rationality, the evidence is that most human decision-making is an attempt to answer three questions, both individually and collectively:
1. What kind of situation is this?
2. What kind of person am I?
3. What does a person like me do in a situation like this?
Thick organizations emphasize the logics of identity and help their people answers those questions; thin organizations focus only on utility.
1. What kind of situation is this?
2. What kind of person am I?
3. What does a person like me do in a situation like this?
Thick organizations emphasize the logics of identity and help their people answers those questions; thin organizations focus only on utility.
9
David Brooks!?
Thank you for this and for your friend.
For my family it was and is Camp Calumet in Freedom New Hampshire !!
Still encouraging inner city kids and family connections. Family being Calumet Nation. Amen.
Thank you for this and for your friend.
For my family it was and is Camp Calumet in Freedom New Hampshire !!
Still encouraging inner city kids and family connections. Family being Calumet Nation. Amen.
Thick and thin are not the only descriptors of social capital: https://www.hks.harvard.edu/saguaro/glossary.htm . There can be a good bit of overlap in these ideas. Having said this, the idea of "thin trust" would appear to dominate our modern world of online social networks. Maybe we can develop some "thick trust" on Facebook, but that is a tough sell.
I grew up as an academic migrant--my father was a university professor and we moved every two to three years, until I left high school. Then there was college, medical school, specialty training, and a couple years in the Army medical corps. Then years of intense work involvement in a few locations. I am sure others have similar experiences, but the life-style did not favor "thick trust."
My wife grew up in one place until she left for college. She has close friends that go back to early childhood. The point is that, over the nearly 50 years we have been together, we complement one another. A good portion of this, on so many levels, is dumb luck.
The point is that the ideas of thick and thin need not be mutually exclusive. They can be brought together--even with different people--and depending on circumstances they can be both expansive and narrowing factors in a life. Maybe both are necessary for healthier existence. I did not take it that Mr. Brooks was excluding these considerations.
I grew up as an academic migrant--my father was a university professor and we moved every two to three years, until I left high school. Then there was college, medical school, specialty training, and a couple years in the Army medical corps. Then years of intense work involvement in a few locations. I am sure others have similar experiences, but the life-style did not favor "thick trust."
My wife grew up in one place until she left for college. She has close friends that go back to early childhood. The point is that, over the nearly 50 years we have been together, we complement one another. A good portion of this, on so many levels, is dumb luck.
The point is that the ideas of thick and thin need not be mutually exclusive. They can be brought together--even with different people--and depending on circumstances they can be both expansive and narrowing factors in a life. Maybe both are necessary for healthier existence. I did not take it that Mr. Brooks was excluding these considerations.
This is a wonderful article David Brooks. I am married to a retired "cop" and have frequently been envious of his large circle of loyal and heroic friends from the department. He was only on the force in a moderate sized city of the Midwest for ten years due to a neck injury but even with a new career, his friends from the force still remain close. I know any of them would help any of our family at the drop of a hat. Along with firefighters, paramedics, teachers, nurses and many other professions, cops are unsung heroes.
8
BMR, your comment highlights a downside of such organizations. Cops are "thick" for sure -- so thick that they'll cover up for each other, and perjure themselves for each other. Which is not so good.
If one is lucky and fortune shines reflection on a "thick" that allows stories for the grandchildren....or shudder from a memory against the storm. Scouting and the glory of nature came with the first , and the storm due to my thirsts. The "self" improvement movement and guided spiritual efforts some many share provide that shelter aided in no small part from earlier associations providing comfort and direction in a group.
Thick organizations, as Brooks argues, sometimes develop through impersonal bonds forged by common experiences or shared goals. Frequently, however, a charismatic individual can shape an institution in his own image and unify the group through the force of his personality and values. In the latter case, the existence of the organization, or at least the members' sense of a common identity, may not survive the departure or death of the leader. Nazis exemplify this variety of thick institution.
This example illustrates an uncomfortable truth about thick organizations, one astutely noted by Richard Luettgen, namely, that such entities sometimes arise from negative impulses or unite their members through aggression against other groups within society. Even in the absence of malign purposes, thick organizations occasionally bind their members so closely to each other that they create barriers between the elect and everybody else. Communities of religious faith sometimes exert this kind of influence.
Thick organizations play a vital role in deterring the sense of rootlessness that often afflicts citizens of a culturally diverse nation. At the same time, however, thin institutions enable people who have little in common with each other to cooperate in the achievement of limited tasks. In free societies, which discourage coercion as a spur to teamwork, both kinds of groups contribute to social harmony.
This example illustrates an uncomfortable truth about thick organizations, one astutely noted by Richard Luettgen, namely, that such entities sometimes arise from negative impulses or unite their members through aggression against other groups within society. Even in the absence of malign purposes, thick organizations occasionally bind their members so closely to each other that they create barriers between the elect and everybody else. Communities of religious faith sometimes exert this kind of influence.
Thick organizations play a vital role in deterring the sense of rootlessness that often afflicts citizens of a culturally diverse nation. At the same time, however, thin institutions enable people who have little in common with each other to cooperate in the achievement of limited tasks. In free societies, which discourage coercion as a spur to teamwork, both kinds of groups contribute to social harmony.
6
I like Joey T. He is like many I've been privileged to know in my faith community over the more than half century of my life. This is where I've encountered the very tenets you describe on "how to leave a mark on people". It is NOT my mark, but the mark of one who knows and loves God and is born of His kingdom. My greatest grief has been those of similar faith and kindred spirit supporting our so called President. The Judeo-Christian ethics our country was founded on includes the Ten Commandments, that many codes of laws are based on and out of the ten, he has unrepentantly broke more than half almost every week, since he announced, including stealing, bearing false witness, and coveting neighbor's. I guess my grief isn't the most important but God's grief over what is happening to our country and its citizens. It seems that this so called President calls forth the very opposite of God's code of conduct and enjoys turning Americans against each other. His selfish indifference to the pain he is causing is extremely telling. For out of the "overflow of the heart the mouth speaks", and his speech honors no one but himself. Joe T. is a much richer man than Trump, as he has a mansion in heaven. Joe T. reminds me of George in "It's a Wonderful Life", who realizes what is most important in life and it is not money and traveling to exotic places or owning them, but "treating others the way you desire to be treated" and living for something bigger than yourself!
2
But when you meet a graduate you know it, and when they meet each other, even decades hence, they know they have something important in common.
Adding to your list of schools - Brooklyn Technical High School. Even if you didn't go there but have a family or friend who graduated from there, you know what I'm talking about.
Adding to your list of schools - Brooklyn Technical High School. Even if you didn't go there but have a family or friend who graduated from there, you know what I'm talking about.
There is bonding with people through an organization and then there is adopting the identity of a microculture (!). I think Angela Duckworth's list goes way beyond the first and the second just sounds creepy, exclusive, insular and not particularly healthy for society at large.
3
Brooks offers a simplistic albeit interesting take on a topic that others have studied and written about with great rigor for decades. It would behoove him (and benefit his readers) to stop his practice of abstracting grand theories from his anecdotal experiences without connecting these insights to more established traditions ... but he rarely does.
2
Im a liberal tax-and-spender with a pink hat on my head, and it seems to me that the arc of David's recent writing has eluded several commenters. IMHO, David has been expressing his own deepening spirituality through several columns, and the recognition of the power and connections Not of the individual, but of an organization, is a constructive, meaningful contribution to civil and civic society. The Republican Party once included thoughtful people, didn't traffic in fake news, and listened to experts in their fields. Now, it is the Dope Dealer of Sloth, and is banking on us all to sit on our individual, thin couches and watch Reality TV.
Being part of an organization is the strongest means opposing and deposing that putative "self-made man," "rugged individual" and laughable carrier of the populist torch who stumbled his way into the White House. Fight the Power. Join and develop interests other than your own selfish, cynical and sarcastic justifications. Maybe throw in a prayer, and don't dismiss those of us who do, so smugly. Open up, because that's how we win.
And yes, David, I went to Wheaton (MA).
Being part of an organization is the strongest means opposing and deposing that putative "self-made man," "rugged individual" and laughable carrier of the populist torch who stumbled his way into the White House. Fight the Power. Join and develop interests other than your own selfish, cynical and sarcastic justifications. Maybe throw in a prayer, and don't dismiss those of us who do, so smugly. Open up, because that's how we win.
And yes, David, I went to Wheaton (MA).
6
Mr. Brooks, I'm sorry for the loss of your friend. He definitely left a mark on you.
What you described reminded me of what I've read about the military right after Pearl Harbor. Everyone was signing up, and it didn't seem like anybody was out to prove they had heel spurs, or what have you. There was a clear enemy to defeat, and it was easy to rally around the cause.
When you see old veterans together, and you see the tears well up in their eyes, one can only imagine how "in the thick of it" they once were.
What you described reminded me of what I've read about the military right after Pearl Harbor. Everyone was signing up, and it didn't seem like anybody was out to prove they had heel spurs, or what have you. There was a clear enemy to defeat, and it was easy to rally around the cause.
When you see old veterans together, and you see the tears well up in their eyes, one can only imagine how "in the thick of it" they once were.
3
"Thick organizations" produce "in the thick of it" experiences that may be challenging and exhausting but form you and remain with you.
This is a really thoughtful and helpful column. Thank you for reaching out to Professors Duckworth, Davison Hunter, and Olsen to articulate parts of it.
1
What Brooks is describing is simply a phenomenon of group life, called the sentience of a group. It's powerful to experience, and that's because it's the equivalent of what we lived in for a couple hundred thousand years running around the savanna in tribes, which molded our brains to make us capable of a deep emotional connection with a group, one in which one's identity becomes tied to membership.
However, to romanticize it is a mistake. The KKK is a group that engenders this kind of emotional connection. So was the SS, and the Red Brigades, and Scientology or any other cult you want to pick. To propose that we should all be part of a "thick" group is a misguided goal. The really important thing is the aim of the group and its relationship to the larger society. If it's just another warlike tribe, then it's dangerous, no matter how good it feels to be part of it.
However, to romanticize it is a mistake. The KKK is a group that engenders this kind of emotional connection. So was the SS, and the Red Brigades, and Scientology or any other cult you want to pick. To propose that we should all be part of a "thick" group is a misguided goal. The really important thing is the aim of the group and its relationship to the larger society. If it's just another warlike tribe, then it's dangerous, no matter how good it feels to be part of it.
11
So, are the Freemasons a thick organization because they have rituals and purport to do good deeds, or a thin one because the members typically engage in mutually beneficial business and political arrangements?
2
"...a shared goal, like winning the Super Bowl or saving the environment; initiation rituals, especially those that are difficult; a sacred guidebook or object passed down from generation to generation; distinct jargon and phrases that are spoken inside the culture but misunderstood outside it; a label, like being a KIPPster for a KIPP school student; and finally uniforms or other emblems, such as flags, rings, bracelets or even secret underwear."
Sounds a lot like a college fraternity. Or one of the many fraternal orders (Elks, Moose, various Masonic groups) which dominate the social and political pecking order in communities around the country. Exclusivity, ritual, jargon, lots of "sacred" physical icons.
While such organizations sometimes do a great deal of good, they are also fertile ground for rigid hierarchy, exclusion and bigotry, hazing, obsessive secrecy, covering up each other's misdeeds, etc.
Meanwhile there are other kinds of organizations out there who manage to do a great deal of good without elaborate initiation rituals, opaque jargon or, sheesh, secret underwear.
Sounds a lot like a college fraternity. Or one of the many fraternal orders (Elks, Moose, various Masonic groups) which dominate the social and political pecking order in communities around the country. Exclusivity, ritual, jargon, lots of "sacred" physical icons.
While such organizations sometimes do a great deal of good, they are also fertile ground for rigid hierarchy, exclusion and bigotry, hazing, obsessive secrecy, covering up each other's misdeeds, etc.
Meanwhile there are other kinds of organizations out there who manage to do a great deal of good without elaborate initiation rituals, opaque jargon or, sheesh, secret underwear.
which st. johns do you mean, maryland, new york, wisconsin?
Maryland--the Great Books school.
There are several Great Books schools. Shimer College in Illinois, St. John's in both Annapolis and Santa Fe. They all derive from Columbia U.'s original Great Books program and the Hutchinson Great Books program (now ended) at The U. of Chicago (Mr. Brooks" alma mater) which morphed into Shimer College. I believe there may be others.
Who cares what you choose for a label? There is one organization: People.
What you right-wingers do is always try to split and break apart into clans and cults. Right-wing thought is the primary evil. It is hardened and non-negotiable. (It is) Antithetical to the organization of diverse humans who make up the People group.
What you right-wingers do is always try to split and break apart into clans and cults. Right-wing thought is the primary evil. It is hardened and non-negotiable. (It is) Antithetical to the organization of diverse humans who make up the People group.
2
Mr. Brooks,
Your columns are of three types: 1)Right leaning and lightweight political 2) Pseudo philosophical pablum of the sort presented here (Thick institutions, indeed!) and execrable trash such as your recent 'Let Bannon be Bannon" piece. You do not lend distinction to 'thick" institutions like the U of C.
Your columns are of three types: 1)Right leaning and lightweight political 2) Pseudo philosophical pablum of the sort presented here (Thick institutions, indeed!) and execrable trash such as your recent 'Let Bannon be Bannon" piece. You do not lend distinction to 'thick" institutions like the U of C.
1
The United States is. thick institution that is rapidly turning into a thin one. It's an interesting thought. But I must admit that my eyes begin to glaze over trying to read these columns. The torpor inducing sanctimony and self-regard are a little much to plow through on only one cup of coffee.
2
Sounds like volunteerism to me, David. Helping those who need help by actually lending your hands.
It's not a handout, as our government "hands out" impersonally to those in need. No, it's the mark left by a hand-up or a hands-on or handshake.
Want to touch the lives of others like Dave's friend, Joe Toscana. Just reach out and touch them. Use your hands. It leaves an indelible mark.
It's not a handout, as our government "hands out" impersonally to those in need. No, it's the mark left by a hand-up or a hands-on or handshake.
Want to touch the lives of others like Dave's friend, Joe Toscana. Just reach out and touch them. Use your hands. It leaves an indelible mark.
34
Tell me Lake, how you are going to lend a hand to someone in the south Bronx? Through the government which is us... all of us...
Stop watching TV...
Stop watching TV...
Ah, Duff, good lad....the government's hands are never as good as our own.
The government isn't all of us. We are all of us. Helping South Bronx and others in need is what we are here for. Sure, the government helps. But a helping hand must come from each one of us.
The government isn't all of us. We are all of us. Helping South Bronx and others in need is what we are here for. Sure, the government helps. But a helping hand must come from each one of us.
Yes, but please let's not disparage government support of the needy. That disparagement makes it easier to shred the social safety net, with the dire consequences we are currently seeing in our country.
I was privileged to be a member of the Marine Corp and the University of Michigan two thick organization .Before I knew the difference between myself and a hot rock they though me the value of persistence , achievement and intellectually honesty.
4
I think the author has just written a "how to" guide for budding cult leaders.
12
I get it. My closest friend was retired from the NYPD. As a teenager he was a member of the Celtics football team in Brooklyn. Tom and his teammates were close over all the years and met in a Bay Ridge pizza joint once a month for many years. Tom died of brain cancer on June 1, 2001. I knew through my friendship with Tom all of those guys. They were firemen, cops, businessmen, one of whom had a limo and driver waiting for him after the pizza and beer ended. They bruised his ego unmercifully when he excused himself to"call his driver." They celebrated the "coach" on his 80th birthday and mourned his death as they did Tom's passing. They supported and consoled each other over the years and seemed all to be passing it on in ways large and small in their far flung communities but on those special nights they were teenagers dedicated to each other for the love of the team.
43
"A thick institution" - what profoundly moving words, David Brooks. Three thick institutions marked my life - Friends Seminary, the Quaker School on Stuyvesant Square in Manhattan, I attended from 4th through 12th grades, and CBS TV News, which marked my life in so many ways - the "Milk Barn" on 11th Avenue and West 57th Street -which provided love, marriage, family until we moved to the thick Brigadoon, a place in Rockland County. Three thick institutions, three thick places, that have provided years of memories - happy and sad. Those places left eloquent marks on my life. I am filled with transcendent gratitude and sorrow.
7
Thick vs. thin, is jargon that has flown below my radar, but an an experience that is an essential part of my life. Submarines, a thick organization, shaped my life, and took me from being a young adult to a fully formed adult. I learn something new every day of my life and I am always aware of that newly acquired knowledge. Subconsciously I evaluate that knowledge through the experience that I acquired as a young man while serving aboard submarines.
"They have a common ideal — encapsulated, for example, in the Semper Fi motto for the Marines."
The problem is this romantic sloganeering, as opposed to nasty realities. Indulging in simplistic thinking
justifies too many bad things.
The problem is this romantic sloganeering, as opposed to nasty realities. Indulging in simplistic thinking
justifies too many bad things.
6
Once more, I confess to being baffled about whom missionary Brooks is trying to reach with today's sermon. Since it is the holy season, I will take the charitable view and assume that he is trying to remind his fellow Republicans who celebrate the virtues of individual initiative and standing on one's own feet that behind the success of each of them is a tradition thick, elite college whose good old boy network helped him land his first well-paying job.
6
The terminology of “thick” and “thin” organizations is useful to describe the difference between those which leave a lasting impression on members and those which do not.
Rituals, symbols and words indecipherable to outsiders may play a role in bonding current and former participants, but they seem less important than the shared goal of the group.
Organizations which have a focus which is clearly good – providing enjoyable outdoor fun for kids, helping the poor climb out of poverty with dignity, giving the recently disabled a respite from arduous physical rehab – offer the members who give their time as much reward as the community which receives the help.
Our society should cherish “thick” organizations which have uncontroversial, benevolent goals.
Some groups with secret rituals and scary symbols ban together to discriminate against and intimidate outsiders based on race, religion and politics. The members probably have a good time, but we must oppose them at every opportunity.
The goals of an organization are far more crucial than anything else.
Rituals, symbols and words indecipherable to outsiders may play a role in bonding current and former participants, but they seem less important than the shared goal of the group.
Organizations which have a focus which is clearly good – providing enjoyable outdoor fun for kids, helping the poor climb out of poverty with dignity, giving the recently disabled a respite from arduous physical rehab – offer the members who give their time as much reward as the community which receives the help.
Our society should cherish “thick” organizations which have uncontroversial, benevolent goals.
Some groups with secret rituals and scary symbols ban together to discriminate against and intimidate outsiders based on race, religion and politics. The members probably have a good time, but we must oppose them at every opportunity.
The goals of an organization are far more crucial than anything else.
4
Brooks joined the Conservative Club 35 years ago, and it remains the thickest institution in his life.
Even Brooks knows this, so like a good conservative operative, he distracts from reality and writes feel-good poppycock for a living, which allows him to maintain his thick conservative head.
David's thick conservatism serves the 'higher good' by helping ensure that America's healthcare and internet providers remain the most expensive in the world due to fake 'free-market' competition while ensuring that slave wages and pension-free workplaces are given the Grand Old Plantation respect that they deserve from a really thick white head.
Thick organizations take advantage of people’s desire for tribal white supremacy, the 1950's, Bible Derangement Syndrome and arouse their fear and loathing in order to thicken their skulls into oblivion so that they gleefully anoint Know Nothing blowhards into power that immediately proceed to economically strip-mine the masses so corporations can be people....and people can be run over.
Thick heads believe a gun every pillow increases safety.
Thick heads scream 'repeal Obamacare' for eight years before they realize they didn't mean it.
Thick heads demand 'no new taxes' until their roads, bridges and public schools collapse and then sheepishly admit they were catastrophically wrong.
Thick heads think Donald Trump's tax-dodging and swindling talents and bankrupt mind are the answers to America's problems.
You can't fix thick stupidity.
Even Brooks knows this, so like a good conservative operative, he distracts from reality and writes feel-good poppycock for a living, which allows him to maintain his thick conservative head.
David's thick conservatism serves the 'higher good' by helping ensure that America's healthcare and internet providers remain the most expensive in the world due to fake 'free-market' competition while ensuring that slave wages and pension-free workplaces are given the Grand Old Plantation respect that they deserve from a really thick white head.
Thick organizations take advantage of people’s desire for tribal white supremacy, the 1950's, Bible Derangement Syndrome and arouse their fear and loathing in order to thicken their skulls into oblivion so that they gleefully anoint Know Nothing blowhards into power that immediately proceed to economically strip-mine the masses so corporations can be people....and people can be run over.
Thick heads believe a gun every pillow increases safety.
Thick heads scream 'repeal Obamacare' for eight years before they realize they didn't mean it.
Thick heads demand 'no new taxes' until their roads, bridges and public schools collapse and then sheepishly admit they were catastrophically wrong.
Thick heads think Donald Trump's tax-dodging and swindling talents and bankrupt mind are the answers to America's problems.
You can't fix thick stupidity.
350
rudeness does not constitute rebuttal.
3
Referring to the title to this piece, for conservatives how to leave a mark on people all too often is done by a police nightstick, particularly if one is black.
2
"Thick heads demand 'no new taxes' until their roads, bridges and public schools collapse and then sheepishly admit they were catastrophically wrong."
Or worse, Socrates, when they(R) refuse to admit the error but instead blame it on the folks(D) who told them about the impending disaster.
Or worse, Socrates, when they(R) refuse to admit the error but instead blame it on the folks(D) who told them about the impending disaster.
2
I guess the moral is that “thick organizations” build community while “thin” organizations are our way of making a living. I can buy that in today’s world, but it doesn’t read as particularly profound to me. Few mistake being an active member of a church and slogging it to work five days a week. It’s also not mutually exclusive, and shouldn’t be – “Joey T.” made a living as a firefighter, which tends to be pretty “thick”.
There are also examples of “thick” organizations that seek to build dark communities, such as the KKK or prison gangs based on race, which suggest that not all is wholesome about “thickdom”. Because I value wholesome community and efforts to create and maintain it, I see value in the more virtuous manifestations of David’s “thick” organizations.
But two thoughts.
The first is that we make a positive mark on people as individuals in ways that are every bit as impactful as those we might make in group participation. Every act of sponsorship and mentorship does that in the workplace, and there’s still plenty of that happening. The second is that there once were numerous commercial organizations that fostered “thickness”, where it could be a consuming matter to work there, to make one’s living there. Recent examples include Google, Xerox and Target, all of which support strong internal programs that seek to involve their people in communities on a host of important issues.
The ways of leaving wholesome marks on people are only limited to our imaginations.
There are also examples of “thick” organizations that seek to build dark communities, such as the KKK or prison gangs based on race, which suggest that not all is wholesome about “thickdom”. Because I value wholesome community and efforts to create and maintain it, I see value in the more virtuous manifestations of David’s “thick” organizations.
But two thoughts.
The first is that we make a positive mark on people as individuals in ways that are every bit as impactful as those we might make in group participation. Every act of sponsorship and mentorship does that in the workplace, and there’s still plenty of that happening. The second is that there once were numerous commercial organizations that fostered “thickness”, where it could be a consuming matter to work there, to make one’s living there. Recent examples include Google, Xerox and Target, all of which support strong internal programs that seek to involve their people in communities on a host of important issues.
The ways of leaving wholesome marks on people are only limited to our imaginations.
26
who are you, and what have you done with the "REAL" Richard Luettgen?
20
Inchoate:
I'm less than one week away from completing ten years of active commenting in this forum -- millions of WORDS (not characters, including spaces). Clearly, you have no real idea of who I REALLY am.
I'm less than one week away from completing ten years of active commenting in this forum -- millions of WORDS (not characters, including spaces). Clearly, you have no real idea of who I REALLY am.
We are whom we reveal ourselves to be - by those millions of words - and many of us - I join Inchoate But Earnest - are surprised at your 'take" today.
as a UofC graduate, i know exactly what you mean. whenever i encounter a fellow (or gal) survivor, even one who is decades older or younger than i, we share collective memories and a sense of having been held, for good or ill, in the grip of something greater than ourselves during those four years in which we lived (and often transcended) chicago's south side--a very rich and unforgettable life from the neck up.
7
Organizations in America, whether business oriented or religious or military or political or otherwise?
Anyone of exceptional intellect cannot help but be repelled by the organizations of America. They all pretend to be inclusive but they are quite exclusive. Only an organization composed of geniuses can be honest enough about its shortcomings, dare to look at the problem of inclusion/exclusion. Every other organization--especially our two political parties--are a study in hypocrisy if they care to speak at all.
The big test of political parties today--the defense of Popper's open society in the face of worldwide authoritarian trends--is how much they would allow every raw talent, every gifted mind in society, educated or uneducated, to link up in an organization on the internet and every other communication space and in the actual world. Something along the lines of Facebook but genius, raw talent, connecting so no genius languishes in poverty and is no longer marginalized.
It is a staggering realization when such an idea--which seems so obvious in retrospect--is placed side by side with the objectives of both our major political parties and every other organization in the U.S. There is not the slightest doubt in my mind both parties would be hostile to such an idea--in fact they would use the internet to prevent such an idea from coming to fruition.
Both parties obviously appear quite selfish, self-flattering, cowardly when faced with a movement of organized geniuses.
Anyone of exceptional intellect cannot help but be repelled by the organizations of America. They all pretend to be inclusive but they are quite exclusive. Only an organization composed of geniuses can be honest enough about its shortcomings, dare to look at the problem of inclusion/exclusion. Every other organization--especially our two political parties--are a study in hypocrisy if they care to speak at all.
The big test of political parties today--the defense of Popper's open society in the face of worldwide authoritarian trends--is how much they would allow every raw talent, every gifted mind in society, educated or uneducated, to link up in an organization on the internet and every other communication space and in the actual world. Something along the lines of Facebook but genius, raw talent, connecting so no genius languishes in poverty and is no longer marginalized.
It is a staggering realization when such an idea--which seems so obvious in retrospect--is placed side by side with the objectives of both our major political parties and every other organization in the U.S. There is not the slightest doubt in my mind both parties would be hostile to such an idea--in fact they would use the internet to prevent such an idea from coming to fruition.
Both parties obviously appear quite selfish, self-flattering, cowardly when faced with a movement of organized geniuses.
2
Alas, we need our geniuses and they exist, but often at a cost, and one finds they are emotionally childish at times when it comes to addressing the realities of pragmatic and mundane matters.
Our local schools used to be like this. Parents walked kids to school who were leaving their parents protective hand for the first time. This ritual of handing your child over to a stranger was the same worrisome experience for everyone.
But that person wasn't a stranger for long. These teachers soon worked magic on these young minds and the school become our home, not an institution. It was the place of PTA meetings and conferences with your child. It was where choirs sang and art was produced to adorn your refrigerator. It was where minds were awakened to the wonders of the world. And it was a place where women predominated as teachers and principles. Their distinctive touch brought a mothers love into every classroom.
For some, this ritual continued from child to child. For some even to another generation. But lately it has changed dramatically. Those loving teachers have been attacked and their unions savaged by those that once sat in their classrooms. The school community has been torn apart by closings and private corporations that claim to do a better job, for profit of course. Or they have become an extension of a church. Nothing wrong with that, except that now we have to pay for it.
Those schools and those communities were 'thick' but now they sit next to abandoned stores, empty lots and neighborhoods that ask whether the depression will ever end, while others talk of the recovery and the latest new product from Apple.
But that person wasn't a stranger for long. These teachers soon worked magic on these young minds and the school become our home, not an institution. It was the place of PTA meetings and conferences with your child. It was where choirs sang and art was produced to adorn your refrigerator. It was where minds were awakened to the wonders of the world. And it was a place where women predominated as teachers and principles. Their distinctive touch brought a mothers love into every classroom.
For some, this ritual continued from child to child. For some even to another generation. But lately it has changed dramatically. Those loving teachers have been attacked and their unions savaged by those that once sat in their classrooms. The school community has been torn apart by closings and private corporations that claim to do a better job, for profit of course. Or they have become an extension of a church. Nothing wrong with that, except that now we have to pay for it.
Those schools and those communities were 'thick' but now they sit next to abandoned stores, empty lots and neighborhoods that ask whether the depression will ever end, while others talk of the recovery and the latest new product from Apple.
239
You can be an essential part of a thick organization without picking the taxpayers pockets.
Yes, drspock. Are we facing an "inevitable decline" in the USA, or can we join together to do something about it? I hope that's a good question.
This is way over the head of David Brooke. I am sure he never enter a public school.
Sounds, more or less, like Scientology.
And KIPPsters? KIPP is the condescending, "no excuses," shaming, shunning organization that mostly reminds me of Basic Training at Fort Benning in 1966. Yes, we were thick. Thick as thieves as learned to surrender our critical capacities, suppressed our compassion, followed instructions without question and learned to kill under the banner of nationalist authority.
Ask members of any cult and they'll tell you how deeply they love each other. These are insular, usually homogeneous, always conforming, unfailingly compliant organizations.
And KIPPsters? KIPP is the condescending, "no excuses," shaming, shunning organization that mostly reminds me of Basic Training at Fort Benning in 1966. Yes, we were thick. Thick as thieves as learned to surrender our critical capacities, suppressed our compassion, followed instructions without question and learned to kill under the banner of nationalist authority.
Ask members of any cult and they'll tell you how deeply they love each other. These are insular, usually homogeneous, always conforming, unfailingly compliant organizations.
63
Cults, you call them? What is your alternative? We are social beings who were created to do life in community. What community (cult?) are you included in or are you trying to do life alone and in service only to your own needs? I feel sorry for you, if you have nothing to call forth the "better angels of our nature".
1
Ah, Grace, I don't need your well-intended grace. I am part of many interconnected communities, especially the school I head. We appreciate skepticism, not conformity, we love without requiring conformity, we don't "train" children or teach them oaths, pledges and slogans. Places like KIPP schools are cultish, with slogans, uniforms, call-and-response training and constant repression of individuality. Scientology is a scam and a cult. So, yes, Grace Needed, I call them what they are.
I have long struggled to articulate the subtle, corrosive effect that this generation of Ayn Randian, uber capitalists have had on the fabric of America.
Where we were once thick we have become thin. That lack of cohesion has fostered fear and mistrust. DJT is the face of that nightmare.
Where we were once thick we have become thin. That lack of cohesion has fostered fear and mistrust. DJT is the face of that nightmare.
16
The secular religion of true free market capitalism is a thick organization.
Mr. Brooks of late (perhaps since Trump landed in the White House?) you seem to be pleading for the days of yore when America's myth of a Pleasantville or Main Street way of life existed. When most of us had trust in each other and inn our leadership we felt more secure, we could turn away from racism, sexism and nationalism and pretend we were that shining example of a country. I don't disagree with your desire to build and maintain communities of trust, compassion, respect, justice-oriented for they can help us to evolve in positive ways. But as other commenters have said, they can also push us to devolve into us/them groups with secrecy, hubris, exclusion and privilege. Americans seem to be in great transition from viable and energetic and helpful communities to something new--which we can't yet fully grasp. Let's hope we find positive and open communities which benefit all of us, not just some. I too remember a church camp I attended when young, and the felt sense of goodness, fun, commitment, responsibility, etc. I'm an optimist most of the time, but the last couple of decades have convinced me that corruption and money rule our country with the results of disillusion, paranoia, us/them attitudes, anger, fear and so on. I hope our thicker communities are transparent and inclusive and indeed do work for a higher good.
13
I was a firefighter for twenty years and retired in 2004. I had a late start at 43. I was the local union's labor contract negotiator. Before my fire service career I earned a PhD in American Studies. Our fire department was a "thick organization." My crew was "thick": sleeping, eating, training, and fighting fire together. The entire International Association of Firefighters is a "thick organization." There is little turnover in the fire service. Thirty years of public service is common. In all the institutions of higher learning I attended, I never really experienced a truly "thick" organization. Then I became a firefighter.
22
I never miss Brooks' rendings. In m not-so-humble opinion he is truly a sage of our time. Reading his words and thoughts almost always lead me toward a better self. Write on, Mr. Brooks, right on.
14
His intelligence is wasted on much of the NY Times readership.
And on defending the GOP
My children and I are a thick institution, but I have spent my life being a part of no other. Is it too late or must one have started at a younger age to develop such a relationship? Maybe some people do not fit comfortably into organizations and would rather take the journey independently while making connections on their own terms. Leaving a powerful mark on one person is as valid as leaving your mark on many.
6
@Lee Del
Raising a family is critical. Sacrificing one's time for others outside the family, however, is an important way that we teach humility and sacrifice that our children will pay forward.
Forming thick relationships can begin at any time and age.
David was not being competitive. He was being vulnerable. And that's unwise with this readership.
Raising a family is critical. Sacrificing one's time for others outside the family, however, is an important way that we teach humility and sacrifice that our children will pay forward.
Forming thick relationships can begin at any time and age.
David was not being competitive. He was being vulnerable. And that's unwise with this readership.
11
Pop anthropology at best.
Dangerous tribalism thick with group think..at worst.
Dangerous tribalism thick with group think..at worst.
12
David is spreading it on a little thick today
12
"uniforms or other emblems, such as flags, rings, bracelets or even secret underwear."
At least the secret underwear is wearing thin.
David's weird homage to symbolism couldn't come at a worse, albeit, an appropriate time.
At least the secret underwear is wearing thin.
David's weird homage to symbolism couldn't come at a worse, albeit, an appropriate time.
10
The Mad Hatter and the March Hare are at odds, while We are becoming a Nation of Dormice asleep in our cup of tea.
For me, David Brooks has encapsulated many of the feelings I have of around my four years at St. Benedict’s Prep in Newark more than fifty years ago. Watch the segment of 60 Minutes that was aired about this “thick institution” and you will see what he means: http://www.sbp.org/60Minutes
4
My son used to attend a school that played St Benedict's Prep in many sports, so I had the opportunity to experience the students there on multiple occasions. I have never met such fine, upstanding, hardworking and polite young men in my life. Whenever they sensed a newcomer getting a bit confused while seeking a sporting venue or like me, a mother who couldn't find a vending machine to attempt to purchase Gatorade that the students had left on the bus, one of the students would offer to be my guide and escort me personally to my destination. All the floors and glass of that school shined in its cleanliness.
I was also going to recommend my alma mater, Benet Academy as a thick institution. Ora et Labora was our motto and it has served most of our graduates well.
I was also going to recommend my alma mater, Benet Academy as a thick institution. Ora et Labora was our motto and it has served most of our graduates well.
2
Does the place still run those summer camps?
Why are you. Mr. Brooks, not helping any more?
Why are you. Mr. Brooks, not helping any more?
8
It's very romantic. It's hard not to be seduced by this kind of poetry.
But the only tribal membership that matters in the long run is being an owner and member of the human race. Many smaller groups have their value and purpose, but if you get your identity from that and don't grow beyond it, you become part of the problem eventually.
A tribe as a stepping stone to wholeness is fine. Don't turn it into the ideal -- you belong to all of us. Own that.
But the only tribal membership that matters in the long run is being an owner and member of the human race. Many smaller groups have their value and purpose, but if you get your identity from that and don't grow beyond it, you become part of the problem eventually.
A tribe as a stepping stone to wholeness is fine. Don't turn it into the ideal -- you belong to all of us. Own that.
8
It interesting, but David Brooks has named almost every feature of an organization that would prevent me from wanting to join.
It feels too much like a cult, with shared rituals and uniforms and sacred origin stories. With a need for a defined higher value - higher than to simply be of service.
I admire people who throw themselves in wholeheartedly, who are determined to give. But I also hope that there is space in "horizontal" groups for committed people, for lofty goals, for action.
Because otherwise, David and the universe have written off the 95% of us who care, and would work to be useful, but who will never be that type of joiner.
It feels too much like a cult, with shared rituals and uniforms and sacred origin stories. With a need for a defined higher value - higher than to simply be of service.
I admire people who throw themselves in wholeheartedly, who are determined to give. But I also hope that there is space in "horizontal" groups for committed people, for lofty goals, for action.
Because otherwise, David and the universe have written off the 95% of us who care, and would work to be useful, but who will never be that type of joiner.
56
David Brooks is describing AA. I had never thought of it that way, but there it is.
13
Ditto, for the Army.
3
Shared goals yes. But Brooks keeps harping about rituals as something everyone should appreciate. The Peace Corps has shared goals, but precious little in the way of rituals that go beyond the individual country in which we served. Shared hardship and initiation (the training, the "village live-in") yes; also jargon; but not the Brooksian quasi-religious claptrap he's always trying to foist on everyone.
45
Summer camp? Mr. Brooks, you've got to be kidding us.
A few decades ago, my thick organization was flying its fighter-bombers into North Vietnam. Other thick organizations included Marine rifle companies, countless Army units, and several hundred Navy ships. Similar thick organizations included Peace Corps, National Health Service, and others. The LAPD, other law enforcement agencies, most hospitals, and every fire department in this country are very thick organizations.
The US Coast Guard ("you have to go out; you don't have to come back" is among the thickest. But, Mr. Brooks -- as his columns shows -- sees the world only through the lens of summer camp in Connecticut.
A few decades ago, my thick organization was flying its fighter-bombers into North Vietnam. Other thick organizations included Marine rifle companies, countless Army units, and several hundred Navy ships. Similar thick organizations included Peace Corps, National Health Service, and others. The LAPD, other law enforcement agencies, most hospitals, and every fire department in this country are very thick organizations.
The US Coast Guard ("you have to go out; you don't have to come back" is among the thickest. But, Mr. Brooks -- as his columns shows -- sees the world only through the lens of summer camp in Connecticut.
18
Sounds like a description of labor unions. Remember those?
252
Oh, come now. Have you or a family member belonged to a labor union? I got to go to college because my father was a union man, and this sounds nothing like a labor union. By definition, a labor union works to advance the interests of its members, not abstract social good. Nor do I recall my father sleeping over or going to retreats, unless you count picket lines—and an effective strike has specific measurable goals that benefit the group's members. Unions have social benefit when most people belong to them and are protected by them, but not because they exhibit the characteristics David Brooks describes here. Or if so, do please enumerate point by point how a union would be an example of this kind of organization.
3
As a retired labor leader I thank you for your comment. Organized Labor helped transform this country. Unfortunately Our myths of self determination and rugged individualism doomed Unions in the long term.
I believe if it were not for the Great Depression, Organized Labor would have never taken root in America at all.
American seem to abhor anything deemed collective. We seem to view our myths as somehow divinely inspired, unfettered capitalism, let the devil take the hindmost.
I believe if it were not for the Great Depression, Organized Labor would have never taken root in America at all.
American seem to abhor anything deemed collective. We seem to view our myths as somehow divinely inspired, unfettered capitalism, let the devil take the hindmost.
It also reminds me of a description of how good families work when they have the time. The same goes for communities. Even though the family I had and the community I grew up in were not wonderful to me, I do understand the effect that living in a place with solid morals, ethics, and friendship can do for a person or a family in need. What's more, when you do receive in a time of need it's much easier to give back when someone else needs. That sort of reciprocity has vanished from today's America. We're much more isolated and fearful of others than we need to be.
4
It is disheartening to read some of the comments posted thus far and see the need of attacking Mr Brooks is so great that some of Mr Brooks's loyal oppositions chose to commit false equivalency they normally would be against.
They try to paint Mr Brooks's "thick institution" with a board brush as tribalism or organizations of hate. But of course, they know this is not what Mr Brooks meant. For example, no one would confuse the Salvation Army with the Khan, even though both claim to be the soldiers of Christ.
So why would they want to put words in Mr Brooks's mouth? Sure, some of the readers might have become fast online friends sharing he common goal of dissing the columnist but it would not be a community of NYT readers eager to share an intellectual life of sincere journalism but an attack pack. So the former is somewhat thicker than the latter, even if they are the same group of people. Identity is such a funny thing!
They try to paint Mr Brooks's "thick institution" with a board brush as tribalism or organizations of hate. But of course, they know this is not what Mr Brooks meant. For example, no one would confuse the Salvation Army with the Khan, even though both claim to be the soldiers of Christ.
So why would they want to put words in Mr Brooks's mouth? Sure, some of the readers might have become fast online friends sharing he common goal of dissing the columnist but it would not be a community of NYT readers eager to share an intellectual life of sincere journalism but an attack pack. So the former is somewhat thicker than the latter, even if they are the same group of people. Identity is such a funny thing!
59
I often wish columns like this were published anonymously, and the author's name was revealed only after all the comments were written.
7
If this column had been published anonymously it would have been obvious to anyone half sentient that the author would have been Paul Krugman, of course.
4
Ok, Bos, I'll take the bait. Assuming you meant "Klan," not "Khan," I will say that the Salvation Army and the Klan have a fair bit in common. Not equivalent, but not dissimilar either. The SA is anti-LGBTQ, thereby dismissing the full humanity of at least 10% of the population. They preach an exclusive, punitive religious dogma. They like their "soldiers" to wear uniforms and suppress their individual identities.
Identity is such a funny thing indeed!
Identity is such a funny thing indeed!
5
Any institution may be thick and thin, not just distinguished by its purpose or goal. The purpose of the military is to create unified persons who can become warriors and kill if need be, just like that of a college is to ultimately educate for the workforce and democratic citizenship.
Thick, or to put it another way, emotionally cohesive environments, tend to erode and become 'thin', when people are pushed to the brink. If they have so many things to do so that they don't have time for other people and colleagues; if they have to fulfill so many tasks yet earn a minimal wage. When they have familial commitments, children to take care of, family to attend to, and yet earn only so much, how can one expect someone in such a situation to spend time devoting themselves to others? Many resort to working a few jobs, or longer hours, so that they can maintain the environment of a 'thick', emotionally fulfilling place for their loved ones, at the cost of sacrificing themselves.
Thick, or to put it another way, emotionally cohesive environments, tend to erode and become 'thin', when people are pushed to the brink. If they have so many things to do so that they don't have time for other people and colleagues; if they have to fulfill so many tasks yet earn a minimal wage. When they have familial commitments, children to take care of, family to attend to, and yet earn only so much, how can one expect someone in such a situation to spend time devoting themselves to others? Many resort to working a few jobs, or longer hours, so that they can maintain the environment of a 'thick', emotionally fulfilling place for their loved ones, at the cost of sacrificing themselves.
6
In another pop psych column Mr Brooks manages to describe the positives of something he approves of, while ignoring things that don't fit. Tribalism is simultaneously responsible for many positive qualities and experiences. Yet, at the same time there is something inherent, apparently, in the human condition that does not simply allow us to say that the "we" and the "them" are different, somehow we have to say the "we" are better than the "them". Belonging to institutions that do good makes us feel whole, to be sure. However, Klansmen probably felt good too! I think I smell smoke from the cities, but Mr Brooks is showing his prowess on the violin.
105
No David, 'thick' institutions, (by which you seem to mean positively life changing) do not have to have ritual. Common purpose and shared humanity will do the job -- ritual will take care of itself.
Why, always, the neutral categories and pseudo-science framing ? Come down from the safety of the words, David.
Why, always, the neutral categories and pseudo-science framing ? Come down from the safety of the words, David.
12
Alexis de Tocqueville noted widespread membership in social organizations as one of the keys to the strength and promise of democracy in America. Long may such organizations thrive -- if they are gatherings of individuals with a healthy aversion to psychological conditioning.
This column of praise for initiation rituals ("especially those that are difficult"), recitation of origin stories, uniforms, emblems, and shibboleths makes my skin crawl.
This column of praise for initiation rituals ("especially those that are difficult"), recitation of origin stories, uniforms, emblems, and shibboleths makes my skin crawl.
104
Glad you said that. I saw the Hitler Youth.
31
If you analyze the "characteristics" of "thick organizations" to which David referred, they would seem to fit every contemporary terrorist organization from the KKK to ISIS. The concept of "virtue and vice" and "doing good" are extremely subjective, and could embrace any terrorist activity from suicide bombing, to mass shootings, to flying a plane into the World Trade Center. ISIS videos have musical scores and extremist groups utilize patriotic music. "Thick organizations" do leave a mark on the individual, and depending on the organization and context, have the potential to leave a devastating mark on an entire society.
133
Maybe the Mason Cult or Jonestown is the template. The more comments I read the weirder this column gets.
35
Mr. Brooks, I would suggest that another crucial aspect of a "thick" place is that its special ethos (perhaps "culture" is a better word) is spread and enforced through leadership. Every one of the thick places you describe has one or more leaders who perpetuate and enforce the culture. New leaders repeatedly rise up again and again to ensure that the culture remains foundational and permanent.
Those who embrace the culture are welcomed, celebrated and embraced by its leadership. Those who act in ways contrary to the culture are strongly encouraged, through word and deed, to embrace it or, at a minimum, not to do anything to damage it.
And when the leadership chain is broken, so, too, is the perpetuation of the culture that made the place special.
The metaphor to the current state of our country is clear and troubling. The foundational cornerstones of our culture that make our nation "thick"--respect for our democratic institutions, hard work, shared sacrifice, providing a hand up to those in need, and community--are being eroded. Instead, we have politicians, business leaders and so-called pundits who often preach a culture of putting self first, placing money above all else and denigrating those not like "us."
Our "thick" nation is becoming "thin" due to a lack of leadership to enforce and perpetuate what makes this place special. It all starts at the top, whether it's a summer camp, or a unit of the Marines, or an entire nation.
Those who embrace the culture are welcomed, celebrated and embraced by its leadership. Those who act in ways contrary to the culture are strongly encouraged, through word and deed, to embrace it or, at a minimum, not to do anything to damage it.
And when the leadership chain is broken, so, too, is the perpetuation of the culture that made the place special.
The metaphor to the current state of our country is clear and troubling. The foundational cornerstones of our culture that make our nation "thick"--respect for our democratic institutions, hard work, shared sacrifice, providing a hand up to those in need, and community--are being eroded. Instead, we have politicians, business leaders and so-called pundits who often preach a culture of putting self first, placing money above all else and denigrating those not like "us."
Our "thick" nation is becoming "thin" due to a lack of leadership to enforce and perpetuate what makes this place special. It all starts at the top, whether it's a summer camp, or a unit of the Marines, or an entire nation.
47
Yes. But you have to look behind what is going on to see why. In the case of politics, it is the infusion of huge amounts of money, equated with speech by the Supreme Court in one of its most wrongheaded and destructive decisions ever, that fuels the lack of leadership you describe.
Modern communication platforms and modern communication technology whether the internet or cable TV graphics or just a PA system are part of it. Megachurches preaching the Christian Prosperity Gospel? Thick I suppose, but not remotely having anything to do with Jesus.
Modern communication platforms and modern communication technology whether the internet or cable TV graphics or just a PA system are part of it. Megachurches preaching the Christian Prosperity Gospel? Thick I suppose, but not remotely having anything to do with Jesus.
3
The necessary organization in American society no one wants created, is in nobody's interest, in fact is perceived as dangerous, but the lack of which calls into question America as a place of democracy, liberty, individuality, an open society?
The organization I speak of would have to be society finally trying to locate every raw natural talent, high intellect regardless of education. An organization on the internet dedicated to genius--an organization which makes it its mission to locate every genius possible to have such no longer marginalized, friendless, languishing in isolation. Instead of Facebook, try Geniusbook.
But would such an organization be possible? No. Why? because it without question would be a threat to the right wing. Imagine all the major intellects in society marshaling their power. Why the only thing worse would be highly functioning, conscious Artificial Intelligence running amok! As for the left wing, it is a tireless project of making everything fair and equal--left wingers never tire of bringing anyone not in their socialistic, minority group projects down to size; geniuses do not figure as a minority group in left wing calculation.
So for all the noble organizations of America, for all the freedom and caring, expect the more gifted minds to have to continue to struggle to have justice done to their raw intellect, to not have their education mucked up, to not end up friendless or without employment...
Geniusbook or bust my gifted friends!
The organization I speak of would have to be society finally trying to locate every raw natural talent, high intellect regardless of education. An organization on the internet dedicated to genius--an organization which makes it its mission to locate every genius possible to have such no longer marginalized, friendless, languishing in isolation. Instead of Facebook, try Geniusbook.
But would such an organization be possible? No. Why? because it without question would be a threat to the right wing. Imagine all the major intellects in society marshaling their power. Why the only thing worse would be highly functioning, conscious Artificial Intelligence running amok! As for the left wing, it is a tireless project of making everything fair and equal--left wingers never tire of bringing anyone not in their socialistic, minority group projects down to size; geniuses do not figure as a minority group in left wing calculation.
So for all the noble organizations of America, for all the freedom and caring, expect the more gifted minds to have to continue to struggle to have justice done to their raw intellect, to not have their education mucked up, to not end up friendless or without employment...
Geniusbook or bust my gifted friends!
1
Today, Brooks veers off on another one of his pop sociology "mansplaining" pieces touting individuality mixed with higher purpose sounding like religion. Meanwhile, Rome burns while Trump plays golf. Are we tired of winning yet?
335
I think you need to look up "mansplaining": where does Mr. Brooks attempt to explain women's issues to women, or to assume that he inherently knows more about this topic because he's a man?
3
There can be great value and rewards from being in such an organization, but one should also remember the ways in which they can go awry and lead people astray. We see that today in politics, where extreme and reflexive partisanship can lead people away from the best interest of the nation and toward a what is in the best interest of the party. We have also seen sexual abuse of children covered up in favor of the interest of an institution rather than the people it is entrusted to protect. We see this in some police departments, where abuse of the public is tolerated in the name of protecting the organization.
At their best, institutions enrich and ennoble their members and the communities in which they exist. At their worst. they value tribal loyalty over more important values and the overall well-being of society. Many, of course, fall somewhere in between.
At their best, institutions enrich and ennoble their members and the communities in which they exist. At their worst. they value tribal loyalty over more important values and the overall well-being of society. Many, of course, fall somewhere in between.
15
This is all about the bright side of passionate environments. Passion in our work, our community, our families.
But passion has heartbreak as well.
Here it is, 4:00 am and I am getting ready to go to work at the plastics factory. The company is struggling, terribly. People at work say I work too hard in order that a failed structure endure. Many have often said that I care too much.
They think I care too much about that thin institution called the company. That is true.
But I think I care about the thicker institution of a business organization that might allow us all to reap a reasonable livelihood. I work hard for those people here at work with me.
I work hard for my boss.
Right now, I feel that neither has passion for me.
But passion has heartbreak as well.
Here it is, 4:00 am and I am getting ready to go to work at the plastics factory. The company is struggling, terribly. People at work say I work too hard in order that a failed structure endure. Many have often said that I care too much.
They think I care too much about that thin institution called the company. That is true.
But I think I care about the thicker institution of a business organization that might allow us all to reap a reasonable livelihood. I work hard for those people here at work with me.
I work hard for my boss.
Right now, I feel that neither has passion for me.
174
@Gordon
A wage doesn't confer worth. And having our sacrifices recognized by men is but a fraction of the satisfaction that each of us has for a job well done.
We have raised a generation of children who receive a trophy for having breakfast. Liberals need to let go of the wage fixation and turn a bit more attention to soul salvation.
After a generation of self-obsession, it should be clear that people do not find their happiness in being adulated and patted on the head.
A wage doesn't confer worth. And having our sacrifices recognized by men is but a fraction of the satisfaction that each of us has for a job well done.
We have raised a generation of children who receive a trophy for having breakfast. Liberals need to let go of the wage fixation and turn a bit more attention to soul salvation.
After a generation of self-obsession, it should be clear that people do not find their happiness in being adulated and patted on the head.
2
Sure wish the Times would chronicle your story for us.
4
"Wage fixation"? Wow. Is that also known as "getting paid a living wage"? You know, something conservatives are apparently against.
"Thick institutions," as you call them David are more substantive when glued together by a union, or formed under the rubric of state or federal government.
Cowboy capitalism in which societal cohesiveness is undermined by anti-tax platforms, corporate raiders, men with guns, and women without health insurance is the antithesis of what you seek.
Cowboy capitalism in which societal cohesiveness is undermined by anti-tax platforms, corporate raiders, men with guns, and women without health insurance is the antithesis of what you seek.
182
Ah, but the glue to a dog-eat-dog capitalist is one's whiteness. And, I'd add, maleness.
"Thick institutions ... are more substantive when glued together by a union, or formed under the rubric of state or federal government."
That's a joke, right?
That's a joke, right?
Or in the words of Shakespeare:
HENRY V, Act IV, scene III:
This story shall the good man teach his son;
.......
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remember'd;
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
HENRY V, Act IV, scene III:
This story shall the good man teach his son;
.......
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remember'd;
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
20
I love that quotation too. Henry V was a character--not written to speak Shakespeare's own beliefs about England. I see Henry at that moment brilliantly manipulating his terrified, ragged soldiers with a "story," and it worked. Thin-ish trying to sound thick at a crucial moment. But wow, what a speech! Best regards to you.
12
Mr. Schwartz - your post brought a tear to my eye. That deeply moving Shakespearean quote reminded me of the beautiful stained glass window in the American Air Force Pilots Memorial in St. Paul's Cathedral in London. That particular memorial is a stunning reminder of the mark every American serviceman and woman made who served and died in WWII. Thank you for this thoughtful post.
Brooks's paean to "thick" organizations neglects the fact that terrorist groups like ISIS can have just as much influence on impressionable youths as Connecticut summer camps. In other words, "thick" does not necessarily mean "good". There's a reason that con artist groups are called "as thick as thieves".
337
Here is another one for Brooks, Scientology, an extremely thick organization.
51
Both humanity denying African enslavement and equality defying Negro Colored Jim Crow were legal in the land of the free and home of the brave.
Tamir Rice, Walter Scott and Eric Garner are dead. While Cliven Bundy and Dylann Roof live!
There is a reason that America is known for cynical callous inhumane hypocrisy.
Tamir Rice, Walter Scott and Eric Garner are dead. While Cliven Bundy and Dylann Roof live!
There is a reason that America is known for cynical callous inhumane hypocrisy.
Someone needs to school David Brooks on the brilliance of individualism, the creative genius and potential of pluralism, the animating quality of an individual inalienable right to indignation. Animals move in herds, nudging each other along, never asserting an individual identity, quietly acquiescing to those evolutionary norms of behavior that are instinctual, automatic, individually unassertive. I should think that the North Korean army, goose stepping with a kind of ahistorical arrogance is a "thick organization." The thickest organization for a fully actualized and educated person is his or her individual creative power of self expression and ability to bring order, reason, tolerance and, at times, love to those who connect with that person
34
Not sure how you made the intellectual leap from the kind and giving firefighter Joey T. that David Brooks described, to the "goose-stepping North Korean army." I'll take the summer camp, thanks.
14