Just cancelled my flight to Washington DC claiming weather although American airlines is flying multiple flights on schedule from same airports. Made me miss my conference - this is the second time in six months! Am swearing off this airline in the future. Good bye United.
United is the United States copy of Aeroflot.
As much as we Americans bash "over-regulated" Europe, they allow numerous low cost startup airlines to operate, making for flights one half to one third of U.S. prices.
Yet the U.S. allows no foreign carriers to operate domestic routes in the U.S. Maybe Europe doesn't allow U.S. carriers to fly domestic routes in the U.S., but something is horribly wrong if Europeans can select new airlines and Americans can't.
And I was a 20-year United frequent flier, which I stopped more than 10 years ago. What a revelation to fly other carriers regularly.
I recently flew "1st class" on a United flight from LAX to their hub ORD in Chicago. Talk about rotten , sporadic "service" on worn out small seats. What a waste of money.
I miss Continental. :(
I "attempted" to take my 82 yr old mother to her last sibling's funeral in Georgia. After sitting on the tarmac in Chicago for over 1 1/2 hrs due to mechanical issues, then waiting further for take off clearance, we completely missed our connection in Atlanta to Augusta for the funeral. The behavior of the staff there was deplorable. We missed the funeral, and never received anything but plenty of rudeness.
My mom refuses to ever fly again because of that treatment.
I refuse to fly United.
My mom refuses to ever fly again because of that treatment.
I refuse to fly United.
4
I was once a frequent flyer on United, but since Munoz displayed such nauseating arrogance and disregard for customers I would hitchhike before giving the company a dime. What a disgusting fraud he is. Great communicator? Yup, he told all of us to stick it. A stupid and expensive display of lack of empathy and responsibility. Adios, United. May former customers are strongly united against this poorly run airline.
6
I have been avoiding United ever since being screamed at by a gate supervisor last year for 20 straight minutes (no exaggeration) for daring to argue with him that I need doctor prescribed pillows on my seat following major surgery. He decided each pillow is a bag and so I was exceeding my carry on allowance. The Dao incident is not an isolated incident -- this abuse has been going on for a long time.
5
I have avoided United flights for at least 10 years and these stories about poor customer service and treatment have occurred repeatedly. "Friendly skies" just makes me laugh. Denver is my primary hub, so I have choices when I fly and unless there is no alternative, I will always choose another carrier. It started for me with lost luggage 4 consecutive flights, and three of them were direct with no change of planes. I learned the hard way that there is a limit to what they will allow you to claim in value ... golf clubs exceed that $$ amount.
United is the worst, and I hope that the Dr. and his lawyers returned the "courtesy" in full to this putrid airlines.
United is the worst, and I hope that the Dr. and his lawyers returned the "courtesy" in full to this putrid airlines.
5
Your referenced experiment on how likely flyers will avoid offending airlines does not even begin to account for the long-term revulsion people feel in their gut about an airline could treat paying customers like branded cattle. That is even before discrimination and bigotry--real or perceived--are open for all to see. The take-away lesson for the boys in the executive suites is that your social powers shield you from the open secret that you are living in a house of mirrors.
4
Anyone with an ounce of common sense would realize United needs to be on their best behavior. Combine this with a drop in sales and resulting lower prices......Now is a great time to fly United.
3
For me, at least, there is no "great time to fly United".
3
All US airlines' services are inferior to those elsewhere .This is due to the lack of competition. But United is the worst of the worst and one would avoid it at virtually any cost.
7
I am surprised that the survey could find anyone on the planet who had not heard the story about Dr. Dao.
After years of avoiding United I flew to Lima business class on United, only because it was the only non-stop available. Worst business class seating arrangement I have experienced in years!
After years of avoiding United I flew to Lima business class on United, only because it was the only non-stop available. Worst business class seating arrangement I have experienced in years!
6
I LOATHE UNITED. If there is any other airline flying where I am going I will fly it no matter what the cost. And still, I have to fly the vile skies of United from time to time. I will not list my horror stories. No doubt there was always a reason or an excuse but I will list the airlines which have never treated me as badly as United: Air France, British Air, Lufthansa, Turkish Airlines, JAL, Alaska (my new favorite), Hawaiian Airlines and Southwest.
7
This experiment proves very little. Seasoned travelers know that American Airlines is the worst airline in the sky. They may not have had the scandal that occurred with United, but they routinely abuse passengers and their customer service is despicable. This survey compares had and worse.
8
personal experience: I have to fly next month. Did not want to fly on United no matter what the cost savings (it was $200 when i looked) and layover/stops were equal.
I will not fly on United again, ever.
I will not fly on United again, ever.
8
Ultimately the issue is safety. The current situation of a deregulated airlines monopoly pits airlines against passengers. Flight is now adversarial and increasingly the airlines exercise more and more control and provide less and less service to the present point of arbitrary exercise of authority a.k.a abuse. The airlines also pit passengers against each other. A recent first class paid up passenger was asked to leave (and threatened with handcuffs) for one with a "higher priority." (Was that priority a $50 bill, I wonder) In event of a real emergency, people are less likely to cooperate versus acting for themselves. That's why we need re-regulation. Won't happen with this Congress or this president unless we, the millions who must fly, get together and demand regulation of the air5lines as the monopoly and public utility they've become.
12
Reduction in the number of airlines coupled with increased air travel on top of the pressure and stress of security check has made flying a nightmare for everyone from airline personnel to airline customers. Why do we have to fly between cities several hundred miles apart?? Why is the US light years behind Europe and Asia in high speed rail?? Why? Why? Why? High speed rail would reduce the congestion, the stress and the inhumanity of air travel in the 21st century. Now to have a humane experience one has to pay extortionist fees. Instead of innovation reaching the customer experience, all technological innovation has done is transfer the work of check in to the customer even to the point of tagging your own luggage. The cost of the ticket, being one's own check in attendant, the stress of simply getting to the gate are all rewarded with being inhumanely compressed for hours and having to endure the videos of someone sitting almost on top of you and like it or not there is no way to avoid seeing the horrors on their screen. By the end of the flight the entire flying tube container is a disgusting trash bin including the cradled first class zone. The airlines are making money while customers and employees alike are inhumanely treated. The airlines should pay people to endure this madness. Wouldn't be great if the flying public boycotted airlines?
12
Excellent sane humane analysis. Thank you.
2
I swore off United years ago over two incidents: a flight attendant who let passengers know that "today is my last day" then proceeded to abuse anyone who made a special request or didn't respond quickly enough to her questions; a burned out attendant who thought I or other passengers couldn't hear her due to the change in air pressure, so she twice muttered "stupid" under her breath after answering a question.
United has a severe problem with its culture and training. They need more than a shift in how they treat customers -- they require a complete culture transformation.
United has a severe problem with its culture and training. They need more than a shift in how they treat customers -- they require a complete culture transformation.
16
Let's create a group of air passengers united to lobby our congress people to re-regulate the public utility of the monopoly ( only 4 main ones) airlines have become. Re-establish the Civil Aeronautics Board which tightly regulated airlines before Jimmy Carter with assistance from Ted Kennedy and his then aide Steven Breyer deregulated airlines in 1978. We were safer then. We could be safe again if we stop acting like the sheep in the pens of those endless lines they've designed to control us and take action like adult humans.
19
Compare? I don't even look at the United site any more.
15
Jadies and Lentilmen,
I would choose UAL over all others. They have taken a public flogging, hence they will be on their good behavior, for a while, anyhow.
I would choose UAL over all others. They have taken a public flogging, hence they will be on their good behavior, for a while, anyhow.
4
I'm not going to put up with anything. If I can't get somewhere without using a commercial airline then I simply won't go. Period. End of story.
15
Next month, I have an annual weekend trip to a place that's a six-hour drive from my home. In the past, flying was an easy choice. Not now. Between the knowledge that airlines are ripping me off, the security lines, and a variety of people I've come to think of as Sky Fascists, it's just not worth it. We can drive this year.
I'll stop working early, the kids can leave school at 1:30, and we'll beat the traffic. We'll stop for ice cream on the way, and the kids can swim at the hotel on the road. That will be fun! Meanwhile, no rental car, no baggage fee, no boarding stress, no worries about overhead bin space, no one reclining into my face, and no wanna-be totalitarians at the airport and on the plane who appear to see passengers as nobodies at best and people to be knocked around at worst (so far).
I'll stop working early, the kids can leave school at 1:30, and we'll beat the traffic. We'll stop for ice cream on the way, and the kids can swim at the hotel on the road. That will be fun! Meanwhile, no rental car, no baggage fee, no boarding stress, no worries about overhead bin space, no one reclining into my face, and no wanna-be totalitarians at the airport and on the plane who appear to see passengers as nobodies at best and people to be knocked around at worst (so far).
24
Today, American joined the ranks of the anti-customer trend, from airlines. I choose NOT to fly at all, if possible, thanks to the rotten bargain we all get in our efforts to quickly get from point A to point B. Build more railroads.
22
United, Delta, American, they are all the same. Huge airlines, with too many passengers, overburdened staff and crew and the constant pressure to grow earnings, at any cost.
I've been stranded, delayed, or otherwise had problems on all the major airlines, and so have most people. This is a blip for United, as everyone knows that it could happen on any airline, and 99 percent of travelers with shop price and schedule. Period.
I've been stranded, delayed, or otherwise had problems on all the major airlines, and so have most people. This is a blip for United, as everyone knows that it could happen on any airline, and 99 percent of travelers with shop price and schedule. Period.
11
Unfair comparison - those are the TWO airlines I will not fly. I will go out of my way to find another airline.
16
We have the Reagan Administration to blame for all our problems with airline travel in these past 37 years.
It was his bright idea to deregulate the airlines in order to promote that grand and glorious concept of Competition.
And we all know how Republicans adore the concept of Competition - which usually leads to a race to the bottom of whatever Service activity is under review.
Prior to this time all seats on all airplanes were priced the same - in any one class of seating area.
Flights did differ on the menus of meals provided, and that was something to be considered when choosing your flight - if such was of enough importance to be considered by you.
Now all we have is overpriced food to be found prior to boarding - or bring your own little packed meal in your carry-on if you prefer.
Forget service and a pleasant experience in any Service industry when competition is the only criteria under consideration.
Now that unending consolidation of airlines has been allowed to take place then the only solution - for the sake of the sanity of all persons involved in the airline business - is a return to the sensible process of the regulation of all airlines.
In spite of Reagan I think it can be said that "Government" isn't always the "Problem" after all.
It can be a solution in many cases ....... oddly enough.
It was his bright idea to deregulate the airlines in order to promote that grand and glorious concept of Competition.
And we all know how Republicans adore the concept of Competition - which usually leads to a race to the bottom of whatever Service activity is under review.
Prior to this time all seats on all airplanes were priced the same - in any one class of seating area.
Flights did differ on the menus of meals provided, and that was something to be considered when choosing your flight - if such was of enough importance to be considered by you.
Now all we have is overpriced food to be found prior to boarding - or bring your own little packed meal in your carry-on if you prefer.
Forget service and a pleasant experience in any Service industry when competition is the only criteria under consideration.
Now that unending consolidation of airlines has been allowed to take place then the only solution - for the sake of the sanity of all persons involved in the airline business - is a return to the sensible process of the regulation of all airlines.
In spite of Reagan I think it can be said that "Government" isn't always the "Problem" after all.
It can be a solution in many cases ....... oddly enough.
23
Actually, it was the Carter Administration with support of Ted Kennedy that deregulated the airline industry in 1978. Before that air travel was easy and expensive. Airplanes were half-full, fares were set high, and service was great. Deregulation means many more Americans get to fly, but many airlines couldn't handle competition. So mergers and bankruptcies were rife. Only in the past couple years have airlines really figured out to make money consistently. If you want re-regulation, fine. But know your flights will become much much more expensive.
3
I agree with your history. Carter did it, together with Ted Kennedy and staffer, now SCJ Steven Breyer.
More expensive? Not necessarily. The argument that people want only low prices is the same myth that tax cuts mean more jobs. Jet Blue and Southwest aren't losing money and they do a better job than the big four. We need to bring back the CAB. Flying which once was an adventure has become an ordeal. The airlines which pen us up in those crowd control lines are fleecing us now.
More expensive? Not necessarily. The argument that people want only low prices is the same myth that tax cuts mean more jobs. Jet Blue and Southwest aren't losing money and they do a better job than the big four. We need to bring back the CAB. Flying which once was an adventure has become an ordeal. The airlines which pen us up in those crowd control lines are fleecing us now.
12
To Rod and rxfxworld.
Thank you for your input.
I would add however that the process of deregulation of the airlines began under the Gerald Ford Republican Administration (1974-1977).
Wikipedia notes:
"In 1970 and 1971 .... the Richard Nixon administration, .... proposed legislation to diminish price collusion and entry barriers in rail and truck transportation.
While this initiative was in process in the Gerald Ford administration, the US Senate Judiciary Committee, which had jurisdiction over antitrust law, began hearings on airline deregulation in 1975.
The committee was deemed a more friendly forum than what likely would have been the more appropriate venue, the Aviation Subcommittee of the Commerce Committee.
The Gerald Ford administration supported the Judiciary Committee initiative."
The effort continued after President Ford left office.
The final legislative result:
The "Air Transportation Regulatory Reform Act" (S. 2493).
Passed the Senate on April 19, 1978 (83–9).
Passed the House on September 21, 1978 (363-8 as H.R. 12611).
Reported by the joint conference committee on October 12, 1978; agreed to by the House on October 14, 1978 (356–6) and by the Senate on October 14, 1978 (82–4)
(As indicated by the voting numbers, both parties strongly supported the legislation.)
Signed into law by President Jimmy Carter on October 24, 1978.
As always the devil is in the details and this is the situation with most of the Congressional legislative efforts extant.
Thank you for your input.
I would add however that the process of deregulation of the airlines began under the Gerald Ford Republican Administration (1974-1977).
Wikipedia notes:
"In 1970 and 1971 .... the Richard Nixon administration, .... proposed legislation to diminish price collusion and entry barriers in rail and truck transportation.
While this initiative was in process in the Gerald Ford administration, the US Senate Judiciary Committee, which had jurisdiction over antitrust law, began hearings on airline deregulation in 1975.
The committee was deemed a more friendly forum than what likely would have been the more appropriate venue, the Aviation Subcommittee of the Commerce Committee.
The Gerald Ford administration supported the Judiciary Committee initiative."
The effort continued after President Ford left office.
The final legislative result:
The "Air Transportation Regulatory Reform Act" (S. 2493).
Passed the Senate on April 19, 1978 (83–9).
Passed the House on September 21, 1978 (363-8 as H.R. 12611).
Reported by the joint conference committee on October 12, 1978; agreed to by the House on October 14, 1978 (356–6) and by the Senate on October 14, 1978 (82–4)
(As indicated by the voting numbers, both parties strongly supported the legislation.)
Signed into law by President Jimmy Carter on October 24, 1978.
As always the devil is in the details and this is the situation with most of the Congressional legislative efforts extant.
1
The really amazing thing is that people think American would be any better than United. American was 1/2 step above United before this debacle -- I assume that now they've fallen well below since United will be doing everything possible to keep people happy for the next few days.
I regularly pay 10-15% more (up to about $75) to fly Alaska over United, but only after checking that my Alaska flight isn't a code share on an American plane. Alaska has better service across the board, and has always dealt with potential problems quickly and fairly. (There's also free local microbrew beer and Pacific Northwest wine on the small planes, if the flight's long enough to allow any beverage service).
I regularly pay 10-15% more (up to about $75) to fly Alaska over United, but only after checking that my Alaska flight isn't a code share on an American plane. Alaska has better service across the board, and has always dealt with potential problems quickly and fairly. (There's also free local microbrew beer and Pacific Northwest wine on the small planes, if the flight's long enough to allow any beverage service).
16
Thanks for the tip, will bear that in mind :)
2
It's just a weird coincidence or it really is United. I've flown probably 40 times in the last 5 years. My one time flying with United I went to L.A. Had a 45 min layover in South Carolina or North Carolina. When we got off the plane, the sky was clear. There was a rain storm approaching but not for 5-6 hours I just couldn't understand at the time why my connecting flight was cancelled and I had to wait 16 hours. I was in the airport for about 2 hours just watching other planes board. Some even going to California, Texas, Washington. I was so furiously/dumbfounded. Maybe our plane was smaller, or lighter or something?
I now know that United didn't have enough people to fill the flight to L.A. And knew we would fly the next day on our "free flight".......the board showed nothing but on-Time departures on-time arrivals and 1 cancelled flight..ours. We were met with hostility and we were a burden to all the members of United. It was a "go to your hotel" it's only 16 hours attitude. "Weather is not our fault"....I just don't think it was weather though. there was not a single cancelled flight, 15-30 minute delays, no cancelations.
Missed concert-500$
Lost Limo deposit at L.A.-80$
Hotel-120$
Cab-30$
Reservations I booked 2 months in advance -peace be with you.
United being the only flight out of approx 75 flights to be cancelled-priceless
I now know that United didn't have enough people to fill the flight to L.A. And knew we would fly the next day on our "free flight".......the board showed nothing but on-Time departures on-time arrivals and 1 cancelled flight..ours. We were met with hostility and we were a burden to all the members of United. It was a "go to your hotel" it's only 16 hours attitude. "Weather is not our fault"....I just don't think it was weather though. there was not a single cancelled flight, 15-30 minute delays, no cancelations.
Missed concert-500$
Lost Limo deposit at L.A.-80$
Hotel-120$
Cab-30$
Reservations I booked 2 months in advance -peace be with you.
United being the only flight out of approx 75 flights to be cancelled-priceless
31
Chances are that your plane suffered a mechanical failure and was stranded in some other city.
1
I have been treated so poorly by American Airlines so many times that I have chosen considerably more expensive flights on other carriers now for years. Unfortunately I probably would still chose united over American. Foreign carriers are far superior if there is a choice. Almost always. I told my wife that if I won a Nobel prize and the only way to get to Oslo was on American I would have to miss the ceremony.
14
I flew to Europe on an American ticket about 5 years ago. I knew it was going to be bad, but it was a free mileage ticket. I would consider flying American for an international trip again -- if they pay me at least $100/hr for the total time at their mercy (from check-in until I collect my luggage) and guarantee a window or an aisle.
4
Interesting poll, but talk is cheap, and so are most airline customers. I expect when spending real dollars, most people would fly strapped to a board if it saved them $20.
8
We are flying United this summer for. Only one reason: no other carrier to Paris will allow us to take our small dog on board. American explicitly prohibited this for our breed.
3
It's been four years since United stranded me at the airport on a Christmas weekend. Every time I drive to see my parents I don't forget why I'm not flying.
20
I avoid them all and take the train.
19
I was a loyal United customer several years ago. I will never fly United again, even if I have to pay more for another airline. I travel a lot for business and it became apparent after a while that United employees and management seemed irritated that customers were on their planes. I'm done.
39
Mr. Johnston, unless you have a whole ton of money, you will fly United again. Guaranteed. When the choice comes down to attending Aunt Matilda's wedding or staying home, you'll buy that ticket. We all would. Unless, of course, you have a boatload of money.
Every single one of these people who swear they'll never fly United again will fly United again. Guaranteed. Because the industry is such that anyone who doesn't have a boatload of money can't pick and choose. You pick the flight that's cheapest and most convenient and cross your fingers. Anyone who says otherwise is either lying or deluded.
Every single one of these people who swear they'll never fly United again will fly United again. Guaranteed. Because the industry is such that anyone who doesn't have a boatload of money can't pick and choose. You pick the flight that's cheapest and most convenient and cross your fingers. Anyone who says otherwise is either lying or deluded.
8
I agree with you, Richard. The difference in cost between one airline and another is neglibible, especially considering the price we'll all pay if we don't put our foot down. I will gladly pay twice the price to fly with anyone but UAL, and I am not a wealthy person. For some of us, principles matter, ethics matter, and treating customers with consideration and respect is not out of style. It's my money. I'll gladly use it to buy a ticket AND make a statement.
26
Or you don't live in Chicago, Houston, Denver, or another United hub, since taking competitor flight will require not just more money but big compromises in schedule and time.
2
This must be the last existing worst airline in the US; refuse to fly, discourage all friends, have shorted stock, take your own risks
9
We call those persons liars.
Continental was so much better before the merger with United. Deregulation failed for the customer. Let European and Asian carriers have more access to US routes and maybe US airlines will step up to the plate.
30
You're so right, Observer. I'd been living overseas for a number of years and when my new employer booked my return flight to the US in 2005, I was pleasantly surprised to discover that Continental - despite its series of bankruptcies, or perhaps because of them - had become such a customer-friendly airline. My numerous transatlantic flights starting in 2005 were as pleasant as one could expect in the post-9/11 world.
Once the United/Continental merger took effect, however, the level of customer service declined precipitously - evidently the United "culture" overtook that of Continental...and quickly.
I have since used up nearly all of my United/Continental frequent flyer miles, and given this cultural change will avoid travel on United in the future (and not merely for this recent incident).
I wish the former Continental staff the best of luck working under United management - clearly this must have been a difficult transition for them.
You are so right in stating that being forced to match the customer service levels on European- and Asian-based carriers might prompt US-based carriers to up their game with respect to customer service. But as long as price is the sole criterion for the "not-frequent" flyer, customer service will not be a determining factor. More's the pity for those of us who do fly regularly.
Once the United/Continental merger took effect, however, the level of customer service declined precipitously - evidently the United "culture" overtook that of Continental...and quickly.
I have since used up nearly all of my United/Continental frequent flyer miles, and given this cultural change will avoid travel on United in the future (and not merely for this recent incident).
I wish the former Continental staff the best of luck working under United management - clearly this must have been a difficult transition for them.
You are so right in stating that being forced to match the customer service levels on European- and Asian-based carriers might prompt US-based carriers to up their game with respect to customer service. But as long as price is the sole criterion for the "not-frequent" flyer, customer service will not be a determining factor. More's the pity for those of us who do fly regularly.
6
Fascinating study - thanks for writing it up.
One of the aspects of this story that has received far too little attention is the responsibility of the Chicago Airport Police. Yes, United carries blamed for this debacle, BUT the excessive force was actually a result of extremely bad decisionmaking by the officers, who probably weren't adequately trained in how to handle a situation like this, and were obviously not well supervised. I'm not suggesting we let United off the hook; I'm only saying that avoiding incidents of excessive force in the future will require more than a change in one airline's policies. The problem may be O'Hare's as much as United's.
One of the aspects of this story that has received far too little attention is the responsibility of the Chicago Airport Police. Yes, United carries blamed for this debacle, BUT the excessive force was actually a result of extremely bad decisionmaking by the officers, who probably weren't adequately trained in how to handle a situation like this, and were obviously not well supervised. I'm not suggesting we let United off the hook; I'm only saying that avoiding incidents of excessive force in the future will require more than a change in one airline's policies. The problem may be O'Hare's as much as United's.
31
United is ultimately responsible and just settled with Dr. Dao for probably seven figures. The Chicago Aviation police which had no authority over the plane once passengers were boarded (they are responsible for the terminal only) were way out of line. They're a separate gov't entity. One of their staff was an interrogator at Guantanamo. It's not clear whether he was the over-aggressive 3rd guy. Doesn't matter. Dao will get to sue them for assault and battery.
6
My experience with United had gotten so bad that I told my corporate travel agent to never book me on the airline.
Once in a while when the schedule and price on United was superior to other options, my travel agent would say "I have an option on the airline never to be mentioned".
If it was really good, then I would use them, but only as a last resort.
My guess, they lost about ten to fifteen Round trip itineraries per year.
Once in a while when the schedule and price on United was superior to other options, my travel agent would say "I have an option on the airline never to be mentioned".
If it was really good, then I would use them, but only as a last resort.
My guess, they lost about ten to fifteen Round trip itineraries per year.
26
That's right, folks. All United needs to do is wait us out. No need to change the way they treat us like so much cattle. What choice do we have, really? The industry consolidation has made us vulnerable to exploitation and that is what we can expect. The "free" market is not free - not by a long shot. It is dead and zombie capitalism has replaced it.
29
What people say they will do versus what they will actually do when it's time to open their checkbooks are two different things. Talk is cheap.
12
I decided to quit flying United 3 years ago, even though the only alternative to get to my hometown, Santa Barbara, involves a 2.5 hour bus ride with not very frequent service. The last two times I was scheduled to fly from Santa Barbara to a larger airport for my connection to Europe, the flight was cancelled for no apparent reason and despite beautiful weather. Instead of my scheduled SB - SF - Frankfurt flight I flew SB - Phoenix - London - Frankfurt, arriving about 16 hours later than planned. For my inconvenience I was given a $100 voucher on an airlines that I'll never fly again.
While the friendly United agent was rebooking my route, I motioned to the long line of frustrated, angry travelers and asked her how often she had to deal with this. "A couple times a day," she responded.
While the friendly United agent was rebooking my route, I motioned to the long line of frustrated, angry travelers and asked her how often she had to deal with this. "A couple times a day," she responded.
29
I quit flying UAL in 1996 after they left me stranded in DC on a clear summer morning. No explanation. No compensation. No apology. Had to find a couple other passengers to share costs for a van ride to our destination.
7
Eddie and DMS, I was told by a very savvy travel agent that United (more than any other airline) cancels flights if they haven't sold/ don't sell a certain number of seats-- hence "no apparent cause". When you can't get a straight answer about why the flight was cancelled, this is why. Of course they keep those flights on the schedule because once people book with United they get the revenue because most people accept the replacement flight United offers them. I used to see this all the time in Chicago-- United very regularly cancelled their flight while American and Air Canada continued their flights to the same destination in the same time frame (I stopped using United, but I would keep track of their cancelled flights as I went off on another airlines flight!) . What people should know is that unless the airline can claim force majeure (including weather) you can demand that they fulfill their condition of carriage (filed with the FAA) that says you can be placed on another airline. The old Rule 240 has been incorporated into their filed Conditions of Carriage... makes sense to carry a copy if you do chose/ have to fly United. They typically won't do this unless you demand it. Of course this only helps if there are other competitors serving your city pairs.
15
The final paragraph is about the hope that this aversion to United fades quickly depending on the consumers short memory span.
It's unreasonable hope given the article does little to address the underlying core of the issue, more like Hamlet without the Prince of Denmark
The crux of the issue lies in the burst of consolidation if businessthrough mergers particularly in Airline industry to boost it profits more and mergers were largely aimed at consolidating allowing the merged Airlines to increase their market shares and cut costs. Of course the industry made no pretence to pass the savings to customers.
The unpleasant truth is the vast majority of the population uneducated as well as the educated, does not have a clue about economic principles and their impact on their daily lives and that includes, as the Economist puts it in http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21695385-profits-are-too-high-ame... the Business in America Too much of a good thing. Profits are too high. America needs a giant dose of competition
It's unreasonable hope given the article does little to address the underlying core of the issue, more like Hamlet without the Prince of Denmark
The crux of the issue lies in the burst of consolidation if businessthrough mergers particularly in Airline industry to boost it profits more and mergers were largely aimed at consolidating allowing the merged Airlines to increase their market shares and cut costs. Of course the industry made no pretence to pass the savings to customers.
The unpleasant truth is the vast majority of the population uneducated as well as the educated, does not have a clue about economic principles and their impact on their daily lives and that includes, as the Economist puts it in http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21695385-profits-are-too-high-ame... the Business in America Too much of a good thing. Profits are too high. America needs a giant dose of competition
10
Why does our government allow airlines to sell something they may not be able to deliver. ??? That's fraud.
All sales should guarantee a seat until the plane is full.
To protect themselves aginst no-shows, allow sales of standby seats, with priority of next in line by the time of sale.
All sales should guarantee a seat until the plane is full.
To protect themselves aginst no-shows, allow sales of standby seats, with priority of next in line by the time of sale.
34
Jan 2, 2016, United canceled my family's return flight to the US from Sydney, then rebooked my husband and me on a flight later that evening and my two teenage boys on a flight the following day. After speaking on the phone with a reservations supervisor and politely explaining why this would not work for us to leave our kids behind on one continent while my husband and I flew home to a different continent, the supervisor said "I can't do anything for you" and HUNG UP ON US. We haven't flown United since and never will.
59
terrible super
2
This whole thing is just silly. They asked him to get off the plane. He didn't, so they forced the issue. First get off the plane as requested, then argue it out with them in the airport. There's fault on both sides here. People are acting like it's the end of the world.
If they hadn't dragged him and further delayed the flight, everybody would be mad at him instead of being mad at United. Ridiculous.
If they hadn't dragged him and further delayed the flight, everybody would be mad at him instead of being mad at United. Ridiculous.
6
Um, well, except for the fact that they assaulted him and didn't exercise common sense and good judgement by finding someone else and/or raising the offers to get true (not coerced) volunteers)--oh, and add to that the fact that the flight was no overbooked but that they just wanted 4 seats for employees, which they didn't make clear until paying passengers were in their seats, which is when the airline had a legal obligation of ensuring those passengers arrived at their destination on that flight. As for being mad at United: take a look at the comments here. Plenty of people (me included BTW) have many years of horrible experiences with that airline for years running. That event on that plane with that man was part of a longstanding pattern IMO, not a blip.
41
Hey -- Rosa Parks, what's your problem? Just get off the bus and argue it out with them in the bus station. Oh wait -- once you get off the bus there's no arguing because they have already won. So then you just go home defeated again.
The difference here is that the bus company was at least going to provide a service to Rosa Parks in exchange for the money she paid (albeit discriminatory 2nd class service). United was just going to steal, with the threat of violence, something Dr. Dao had paid them for.
The difference here is that the bus company was at least going to provide a service to Rosa Parks in exchange for the money she paid (albeit discriminatory 2nd class service). United was just going to steal, with the threat of violence, something Dr. Dao had paid them for.
6
I for one will pay a bit more to avoid flying with United Airlines in exchange for a peaceful drama free flight. I don't want my carefully planned travels unravel while I'm already seated on the plane or waiting at the boarding area. And as a single female traveler with no elite miles membership, I'm too vulnerable to take my chances with United Airlines.
28
I will be interested to follow the curve of the fading aversion. One thing it shows is how strongly people choose on price based on those who had not heard of the United incident. Since both United and American fill their airplanes, this just means the United flights will slightly lag American in filling up. Once American flights are full, United flights will fill the rest of the way. The loyalty customers may not be impacted at all, since they are aware that the police beat up the customer and not the airline, which no reason to anticipate that the police would behave that way.
5
Nowadays I fly Southwest for the most part when travelling domestically, even if it means no non-stop flight is available. Anything except United, which I last flew about 4 years ago--a delayed departure out of SFO and missing my connection, with nary a "sorry" from any United staff member, was the last straw after a whole series of poor or non-existent customer service incidents. And for any overseas travel I try to fly a carrier like Cathay Pacific or Singapore Airlines, where even in coach class one can expect gracious customer service--I refuse to fly any US carrier overseas.
21
?any US carrier overseas
United has become the Comcast of the airline industry.
9
And guess what, Lois? Everyone still uses Comcast because there's no alternative. I'd drop Comcast in a heartbeat, but I can't because I would then have no high-speed internet connection. It's pretty much the same thing with the airline industry. In most cases, if you're on a limited budget, as most people are, you have no real choice.
2
I stopped flying United years ago after a series of cancelled flights, poor service and lost luggage nearly derailed a vacation. I have found that American is no better.
I prefer Southwest as I hate being nickel and dimed for every single thing, Southwest only charges for early boarding. Delta is second choice, only because they have better service out of our small airport.
I drive if the total flying time equals the driving time.
I prefer Southwest as I hate being nickel and dimed for every single thing, Southwest only charges for early boarding. Delta is second choice, only because they have better service out of our small airport.
I drive if the total flying time equals the driving time.
25
I quit United and Delta years ago. That is not easy as In MN all local airports are Delta. Alwsys overbooked, never no if you will actually get on a flight, etc. Last week finished more travelers off for sure!
6
Cool calculation:
Price goes from $204 to $270 - a 35% (relative increase).
Seat demand falls by about 30% in both instances.
Therefore the (relative) price elasticity is about 1 -- as a first order approximation, a 1% change in fare results in about a 1% drop in consumer intent to fly on your airline.
Fare sales shouldn't be especially effective in such a world.
Price goes from $204 to $270 - a 35% (relative increase).
Seat demand falls by about 30% in both instances.
Therefore the (relative) price elasticity is about 1 -- as a first order approximation, a 1% change in fare results in about a 1% drop in consumer intent to fly on your airline.
Fare sales shouldn't be especially effective in such a world.
3
I fly quite frequently between NYC and Asheville NC a route United Fly's non stop from Newark but requires a change of planes in Charlotte on American.
Although I'm an Advantage Platinum member I always ditched brand loyalty for the convenience of the non stop United flight.
No more. I just booked 3 round trip flights for May and June on American.
I'd rather spend an extra hour or two in transit then to give a dollar to United.
While my six flights will certainly not have an impact on United's revenue for the quarter I simply refuse to step on another United flight gain.
Although I'm an Advantage Platinum member I always ditched brand loyalty for the convenience of the non stop United flight.
No more. I just booked 3 round trip flights for May and June on American.
I'd rather spend an extra hour or two in transit then to give a dollar to United.
While my six flights will certainly not have an impact on United's revenue for the quarter I simply refuse to step on another United flight gain.
28
Just booked a trip for next month...on United. Round trip, first class, for less than $600. Booyakasha! Nearly all the seats are taken already, btw.
I'm not sure I love their new Express Deplaning option. Then again, if asked to leave, I'll simply do so -- and not come running back onto the plane like a lunatic. But that's just me.
I'm not sure I love their new Express Deplaning option. Then again, if asked to leave, I'll simply do so -- and not come running back onto the plane like a lunatic. But that's just me.
5
Aren"t you the daring maverick renegade! Don't forget your crayons and chocolate milk, Huck Honey!
7
Thank you! But no such amenities, please. I'll take my own water and my laptop -- a safe landing is the only "service" I require from an airline.
1
short?
2
I'm among the many people who have had multiple miserable experiences with UAL and, regardless of cost, I avoid United whenever possible. This recent news is horrifying but not surprising.
26
I am fond of my front teeth. I will no longer fly United.
36
It may be optimistic for United to think this aversion will fade for all customers. My wife still won't let me buy gas from Exxon-Mobile, and the Exxon Valdez disaster was 28 years ago.
37
And look how they've suffered...
4
vote
2
Indeed! After an encounter with an extremely rude counter agent at Budget Rent a Car in 1982, we have never rented from them again and never will. United is naive to think that people forget.
5
14 day cross country round trip That's 8 days of 'training' on AMTRAK. Sleepers, meals and scenery 1900.00. Haven't flown in ten years and my state has not gotten to 'Papers Please' REAL ID driver's licenses yet, so who needs the headache? Am retired so we have the time. All Aboard!
14
What people say and what they do are as evident as democratic party voter turnout results for the 2016, presidential election. People say they want and will pay higher prices for more leg room and great airline customer service, but they don't. People say they will buy 'made in America', but they don't, because it costs more. People say they're concerned about global warming but won't buy hybrid or electric vehicles because they cost more. People make purchase decisions based on their wallets, not their principles. Look at United Airlines earnings in six months (assuming we're not in World War III) and see just how many 'outraged people' have 'stopped' Flying the Friendly Skies.
8
Absolutely true. When people choose an airline, it is almost always based on the price of the ticket.
3
Speak for yourself. During the days when I flew United, I paid extra for Economy Plus, and now I pay extra to fly a local airline (Sun Country) domestically, if I'm going somewhere they fly, and foreign airlines overseas.
With long legs and arthritic joints, I am not going to tolerate a 31" seat pitch just to save $100-200. If my price range is that tight, it means I can't afford the trip at all.
With long legs and arthritic joints, I am not going to tolerate a 31" seat pitch just to save $100-200. If my price range is that tight, it means I can't afford the trip at all.
3
We rarely fly United and are not using our credit card that gives us United miles. The last time we flew them they cancelled our flight and when I tried to rebook on another United flight I was foiled by an angry group of a couple of hundred people at the customer service desk. Last flight will be this year, all miles are now used, no more flights, credit card will be cancelled.
20
When your flight is cancelled, you get on your phone rather than line up with the masses at the customer service desk.
1
I'd pay A LOT more not to fly on United.
19
The survey misses something. Sometimes price just isn't a consideration: yesterday I booked a flight for a friend roundtrip from L.A. to Detroit and back, and I just didn't even look at United flights. Wouldn't have mattered if it were free. No thanks.
24
United's "Money or Blood" booking policy is a disgrace.
18
1. Reliability/safety
2. Availability
3. Price versus creature comfort's
2. Availability
3. Price versus creature comfort's
1
Who on earth did NOT know of the United debacle?
14
I will not fly United ever again, and decided this 3 years ago with one bad experience after another. In the first place their regular seats are such that I cannot sit down unless I want my knees by my chin. I am 6'2' and thin. I must pay an extra $50 per leg of a trip to even sit down. United's customer service which used to be good years ago is now awful. If one has a problem, tough for you. Same goes for theur gate employees and inflight service crews. Many seem tired and unhappy to me.
25
I guess minority CEO's are not as great as liberals think they should be. We'll sweep that one under the rug.
1
What a silly comment. Anyone who puts money over customers is a lousy executive, non-white or no.
10
After an incident with United personnel last May haven't used them since. Have gone on four trips and am scheduled to go again in a few days. Went out of my way to make certain I didn't fly United.
Wasn't surprised this incident with Dr Dao occurred on United.
Wasn't surprised this incident with Dr Dao occurred on United.
11
Ok from someone who flies 3-5 times a month for 15 years. International and domestic. This survey is not a good representation because American isn't much better than United. I dont fly American or United and I have NEVER been bumped.
Domestic best to worst is.....
1. Virgin
2. Delta
3. Jet Blue
4. Alaska
5. Southwest
6. American
7. United
But if my only options were American and United i would rather land at a different airport 2-4 hours away and drive. Or just stay home.
Domestic best to worst is.....
1. Virgin
2. Delta
3. Jet Blue
4. Alaska
5. Southwest
6. American
7. United
But if my only options were American and United i would rather land at a different airport 2-4 hours away and drive. Or just stay home.
16
I avoid United like the plague. Travel vouchers sent to me to make up for service failures have gone unused. The recent "crisis" reflects the airline's complete failure to understand how to provide service.
Bumping passengers is within "the rules," but there are ways to do this effectively and in a civil fashion (although it is never right).
Bumping passengers is within "the rules," but there are ways to do this effectively and in a civil fashion (although it is never right).
19
It is inaccurate to call this quick and dirty survey an experiment. To judge the quality of the data from this industry survey, one needs to know specific information about the methodology.
2
No, not inaccurate to call the survey an experiment. ie. Experiment: a scientific procedure undertaken to make a discovery, test a hypothesis, or demonstrate a known fact.
Perhaps poorly designed, poor methodology, etc. But, it met the basic criterial.
Perhaps poorly designed, poor methodology, etc. But, it met the basic criterial.
1
Need to know specifics about "methodology"? How about seeing a passenger who had paid for his seat being dragged bloody down the aisle to throw him off the plane? Judege the quality of that data.
1
I am going to drive 16 hours to Austin, TX rather then fly. I flew last year to Austin for a funeral. This year their is a graduation. A year ago, the airport experience on both ends was long and unpleasant. The airplanes themselves are crowded and leave me with congestion from the poor cabin air quality. 16 hours on the road seeing the sights and talking to pleasant people is preferable.
6
I'm happy for you, EM. But you do see how that's not an option for most people, right?
It seems to me that there are two issues here. First, bumping seated passengers for company employees is pretty rude, but is within the rules. All airlines overbook, and all airlines bump passengers.
Second, my sympathy for the roughed-up passenger is limited by the fact that refusing an order from the flight crew, then uniformed security personnel, is a very bad idea. Fighting them is a worse idea.
Second, my sympathy for the roughed-up passenger is limited by the fact that refusing an order from the flight crew, then uniformed security personnel, is a very bad idea. Fighting them is a worse idea.
5
He argued and refused to move. He didn't fight or act aggressive.
12
I agree, my first feelings were of dismay for the passenger's behavior, I thought he had some mental problems. I could not believe they said he was a doctor. Don't they teach you from early on to comply with police stopping you on the road? They hold special sessions for foreigners coming in to study in the US, because for example in Italy, people like to argue with police... Anyway, had the passenger done like the rest, this would not have been news.
4
patrizia filippi : Neither the flight attendants nor the security types who manhandled Dr Dao were police. The captain of the airliner would perhaps have had some legal authority (if there was legal _cause_ to eject Dr Dao), but he was not involved in this incident. The contract of carriage permits the airline to refuse boarding to anyone for any reason, but it does not permit ejection of a passenger who has already boarded. Neither airline corporations nor airport authorities have the legal right to have their agents assault people. Wait for the court decisions on this, unless United manages to get the whole thing swept under the rug with a confidential settlement and prosecutors decline to lay charges .
6
Ever since United used declaring bankruptcy to cancel its pension plan in 2005 and break union contracts and forced pay cuts on union workers, employee morale at United has been horrible, and it showed in customer service. The entire management and Board of Directors of United deserves credit for putting in effect the stupid public relations policies of nickel and dimeing passengers. That attitude led directly to the stupid management decisions culminating in the forcible removal of the passenger last week. The entire management team and Board should be held responsible. How ? By people refusing to fly United until they all resign. At some point, hopefully soon, the stock will plummet enough on reports of low revenues that these people will resign. Oh yes, perhaps canceling THEIR pensions for cause would tell the next management team to act like responsible stewards of the skies.
45
Is this notion that we want rock-bottom prices an illusion? Is it possible that, when we are presented with a choice, and other things being equal, we prefer the lowest-cost option? That is, the one that causes least pain. So if prices start at $283 rather than $203 makes no difference to our feeling we have somehow made the best choice? If so, airlines could raise prices, improve service and comfort, cover their costs, and we would all be happy. Meanwhile, we choose the least painful (offensive, disturbing) option and avoid United.
2
Yes, if the experience is going to be awful, then you'll want to pay as little as possible. If the experience is decent, even pleasant, you'll pay a bit more.
Look at all the frequent travelers who aspire to business class, when coach will get them there just as fast and for less money.
Look at all the frequent travelers who aspire to business class, when coach will get them there just as fast and for less money.
2
As a contrarian, I will be more likely to fly United Airlines going forward. The people who are most outraged by the recent conduct are exactly the entitled, self-important travelers that have made contemporary airline travel miserable. Please, hop on over to Delta and American and leave me with an open middle seat.
4
You are absolutely correct. I am so entitled that I do not want to be assaulted for the seat I paid for and currently occupying.
13
But you need to think of more than your own comfort, but rather that of the public and getting a change in the policies of all airlines. A boycott of United, will teach all airlines especially Delta and American, that they must accede to customer's comfort and concerns to the extent possible. What is it JetBlue does that gets it so highly rated, but not the major carriers? In the meantime Congress should take up the issue of airline regulation.
12
Hey, if you want to be treated like a galley slave, have at it. :)
8
We need an Internet site on which travelers would post their negative experiences with the airlines. And if one exists I would love it if someone would tell me about it. I have been conducting my own personal boycott of United airlines for about 25 years. my and my family's numerous experiences of outrageously late flights, rude personnel, and failure to compensate bumped passengers poisoned the prospect. Now it seems that flight attendants are taking advantage of general fear of terrorism to harass passengers even more and even more bigotedly. I wasnt part of the poll but as an experienced traveler with options, I can't think of anything that would induce me to fly that airline.
13
you might look at the site untied (versus united) dot com for a litany of complaints about UAL.
4
You can either travel by spending as little as possible, or you can travel comfortably; never both. This is why I only travel first, or business class and will not go if it is not within reach .
Because of my "rule", every flight is like flying in the pre-deregulation days, well, except for airport security.
Now one could comment about 'those who cannot afford' the luxury, or some similar nonsense, but the fact is this: most of the time getting on an airplane is an option, not mandatory.
Because of my "rule", every flight is like flying in the pre-deregulation days, well, except for airport security.
Now one could comment about 'those who cannot afford' the luxury, or some similar nonsense, but the fact is this: most of the time getting on an airplane is an option, not mandatory.
3
I have a trip planned for a month or two from now. I've looked at prices and United is less expensive than my other options, but I'm still not flying with them. Not only was their treatment of that man despicable, but they didn't even immediately apologize. Now, not only am I appalled that they behaved like that to that man, but I wouldn't want them treating me like that. So, I'm not taking the chance.
21
Agreed. The only direct flight I can get to my vacation spot is via United. 9The only other travel alternative outside of driving is taking Amtrak, then driving to my destination.) I've never had a problem with United, and their flight saves time, but their treatment of the doctor was unconscionable. Flying is stressful enough--why go with an airline apparently willing to go the extra mile to make it worse?
11
The thing is, United has always been a grumpy, indifferent, and unpleasant company to deal with. If this were another airline, I think this might fade, but _everyone_ has a United story or two that still gets them mad. This won't go away because it didn't just happen.
23
I stopped flying United about 10 years ago when the airline cancelled so many flights I was stuck overnight three out of four times I flew with them. Anecdotally I've heard of others having the same problem. I really don't understand how the company stays in business. It's so worth it to pay $50 to $100 more and actually get where you're going without major, constant headaches.
21
For people like me who don't travel much, it may well fade into the background in a few weeks. On the other hand, for people who travel frequently and saw the horrifying video, as well as the racial implications, followed by the news that the doctor suffered a serious concussion and lacerations, this could be the cue to stop flying the unfriendly skies of Disunited!
United, and its greedy cousins, Delta and American, seem to have a genius for profit boosting, but possess cave dweller customer service skills.
United, and its greedy cousins, Delta and American, seem to have a genius for profit boosting, but possess cave dweller customer service skills.
15
Yeah, the racial implications are what are giving me serious pause. Suppose the doctor had been African-American? Bet he would have gotten way worse.
1
In my experience there is a large difference between Delta and United. Delta is far better than American and United. See the post above that ranks airlines; it's right.
As a frequent traveler to the Bay Area, I exclusively avoid United's non-stop service for a long transfer in Portland. This was not a one-time bad performance but an organization that lost its way long ago. United used to rule the West. What happened is a case study in business. I guess it took the recent drama for the public and media to see a long term trend.
19
Sometimes these experiences don't fade. I and three others were bumped off a Continental flight several years ago, and we had to rent a car and drive all night to get to a conference we needed to attend the next day. I never flew Continental again.
13
Like all airlines, United has its good and bad. What I take from this situation is this:
1. If i am the airline carrier, try to avoid calling airport police as they may use force which upsets people's sensitivities.
2. Dr Dao is a nutcase, every few months a publishable story of astonishing passenger behavior comes up, but their are many instances of unreported aberrant passenger behavior.
3. United offered a large amount of compensation for such a brief flight that in general gets accepted 99 percent of the time, but it only takes one.
4. I hope Dr Dao gets nothing as it will only embolden others to defy airport police, unfortunately United has to take the bullet.
1. If i am the airline carrier, try to avoid calling airport police as they may use force which upsets people's sensitivities.
2. Dr Dao is a nutcase, every few months a publishable story of astonishing passenger behavior comes up, but their are many instances of unreported aberrant passenger behavior.
3. United offered a large amount of compensation for such a brief flight that in general gets accepted 99 percent of the time, but it only takes one.
4. I hope Dr Dao gets nothing as it will only embolden others to defy airport police, unfortunately United has to take the bullet.
6
Dr. Dao refused because he had patients to treat the next day. I'm sure you wouldn't think he was a "nutcase" if you were one of those patients. Sad to see there are people like you who are unquestioningly slaves to authority.
8
Although I bet if United had offered enough money, Dr. Dao would have managed to reschedule his patients!
1
But, they didn't. Coulda,woulda, shoulda is not reality.
4
Unfortunately there are many routes where passengers do not have an option to choose what airlines they fly with. But the abuse and miss treatment of passengers has reached an absurd level across the boards. This is finally an opportunity for passengers to send a message to all the airlines. Boycott United whenever and where ever possible, and thank you for standing up and making a statement
27
I already do not been fly United after numerous bad experiences flying them to and from Asia. The worst! Once they tried to get me to repack my luggage for being 1 lb overweight. Another time, returning from China through San Francisco, I was standing at the only agent for coach checking in for my last leg home. I had requested to speak to a supervisor to complain about their pathetic customer service and while speaking to the supervisor the agent said, "I'm sorry but your suitcase is overweight". She then handed me a box and had me repack while there were at least a dozen people waiting behind me. And why was I complaining to a supervisor? Because in the multimillion dollar United customer service section in the International terminal that can accommodates around 20 United agents there wasn't a single agent. We had to hike through THREE terminals to finally find an open desk. I have many more stories. This company does not deserve our business.
36
Limits are limits. One or 2 pounds overweight… Heck they might as well go 10 and splash the plane. Typical Californians fail to obey limits, Like speed limits oh god don't start me on that!
You're lucky she gave you a box.
The unfortunate saga with the unfortunate Dr. Dao is the result of management shortcomings, most specifically a culture problem.
The entire United Airlines organization exists for one purpose: to transport its customers from one place to another with the minimum of inconvenience.
A couple of years ago United Airlines had another PR disaster when it paid a contractor to poison hundreds of birds that had been nesting in the proximity of the Bush International Airport in Houston. Millions of bird lovers the world over were enraged and many pledged never again to fly on United Airlines.
It is true that birds are a threat to aircraft operations; it is also true that there are proven and humane means of managing the threat of birds near airport runways.
The entire United Airlines organization exists for one purpose: to transport its customers from one place to another with the minimum of inconvenience.
A couple of years ago United Airlines had another PR disaster when it paid a contractor to poison hundreds of birds that had been nesting in the proximity of the Bush International Airport in Houston. Millions of bird lovers the world over were enraged and many pledged never again to fly on United Airlines.
It is true that birds are a threat to aircraft operations; it is also true that there are proven and humane means of managing the threat of birds near airport runways.
15
Why I, my family and associates will not fly United:
Demonstrated poor judgement on multiple levels ≠ safe air travel.
Demonstrated poor judgement on multiple levels ≠ safe air travel.
29
Excellent point. Similar to the Van Halen M&M test, where the band would put odd clauses into venue contracts to test if the venues and promoters had read the contract. If the venue wasn't complying to the M&M clause, could you trust it to comply with the clause regarding weight limits for light supports?
2
I have not read a lot of the other comments, but this "study" should have distinguished between business and casual travelers, and possibly also whether the subjects had significant elite status or not (i.e. could look forward to a free upgrade). To get meaningful financial predictions, such information would then have to be applied to the statistical mix of these different categories of passengers. What some infrequent traveler thinks may not really matter much here.
4
Ok, I will play the contrarian. There is much information regarding this event we are not being told. Who were the "security" people and why are they not taking any heat? What happened to the doctor that his face got bloodied and he was able to re-board the plane in a confused state? What went on in the gate area after he was removed? He just walks back on the plane??
And sorry but does a doctor behave in such a manner in that situation with the resistance and those noises while being forcefully dragged?
As I said, there is much more to this story.
Too many holes in this story.
And sorry but does a doctor behave in such a manner in that situation with the resistance and those noises while being forcefully dragged?
As I said, there is much more to this story.
Too many holes in this story.
12
Whether the story is exactly true or not misses the point. It is time for passengers to stand up and make a statement against lousy airline service generally. Boycott United.
13
All this information is available with the possible exception of how he was able to get back on the plane.
The security people are employees of Chicago Department of Aviation. At least two have been suspended. The one who did the actual dragging was suspended immediately following the incident.
"And sorry but does a doctor behave in such a manner in that situation with the resistance and those noises while being forcefully dragged?"
He had his nose broken, two teeth knocked out, and a concussion. The real question you want to ask is why the police did not call an ambulance right away to take him to the hospital.
The security people are employees of Chicago Department of Aviation. At least two have been suspended. The one who did the actual dragging was suspended immediately following the incident.
"And sorry but does a doctor behave in such a manner in that situation with the resistance and those noises while being forcefully dragged?"
He had his nose broken, two teeth knocked out, and a concussion. The real question you want to ask is why the police did not call an ambulance right away to take him to the hospital.
17
If you read the news carefully, you would see that a number of your questions have already been answered:
The security were airport police; they have been suspended for the moment, which seems like heat to me; and Dao was concussed, had his nose broken, and lost two teeth after being slammed into an armrest, which seems like more than enough reason to male "noises while being forcefully dragged." His profession is irrelevant to how he responds to being beaten up.
In short, the only holes appear to be in your reading comprehension, and, perhaps, in your sense of compassion and decency.
The security were airport police; they have been suspended for the moment, which seems like heat to me; and Dao was concussed, had his nose broken, and lost two teeth after being slammed into an armrest, which seems like more than enough reason to male "noises while being forcefully dragged." His profession is irrelevant to how he responds to being beaten up.
In short, the only holes appear to be in your reading comprehension, and, perhaps, in your sense of compassion and decency.
4
for me it's quite simple, I will not but a flight ticket on United as long as the current CEO is in charge
21
I've been avoiding United for years now because of their abysmal customer service. The recent video does not surprise me.
34
The reality is that the most frequent flyers (from whom the airlines derive 80% of their profits) travel on corporate fares. The amount of discount may require a business traveller to fly United independent of their personal feelings. So a kayak like experiment is not reflective of reality.
5
Consider whether this is merger shrapnel. In my experience, Continental was the best carrier in the sky under Bethune's leadership. But it seems to me Continental's customer-focused culture lost out in the merger to United's more rigid culture of black-and-white reaction to human stimuli not prone to facile predictability.
11
Nothing particularly egregious, but since United's emergence from bankruptcy, we have been dis satisfied for one reason or another, when flying United overseas, to the point when we only booked a United Business Class flight from Minneapolis to Istanbul after finding that the over the water and connection was a code share operated by Lufthansa. We had flown overseas on Continental before the merger, both in business and "compression" class without any problem but would be quite hesitant to do the same routes since their planes have been rebadged due to the merger. The latest incident only made us discard our United Visa cards in disgust. The skies of United might be friendly, but apparently not that friendly when the planes are on the ground. You don't need a broken nose and a few missing teeth to appreciate a corporate culture that makes no secret that the customer is irrelevant. As bad as flying has become, United has out paced itself in the race to eliminate customer service for a marginal increase in profit.
37
I have a friend living in poverty on the charity of her remaining family after 30 years with United, because her pension was stripped in bankruptcy. She voted for Trump just to flip the Monopoly board, after a lifetime of voting for Democrats who lifted not a finger for her in her need.
3
The Trump who stacked his cabinet with billionaires and is poised to give tax relief to them while stripping services and health care from the poor and elderly? That Trump? I wonder what she thinks of her vote now.
2
Avoiding United Airlines is a goal and therefore inevitably attainable however I only fly 6-8 times a year and there are a bunch of options where I typically fly. Others may not be so fortunate. In any event, sometimes we all must do things We do not endorse. End of story.
10
A few years ago I was seated in my seat on a United flight out of San Francisco with a valid ticket and a confirmed United itinerary, when I was told I had to get off the plane. I was intimidated by the ground crew until I left the plane. The person, who took my seat was a United employee. They told me afterwards that I was not on the passenger list, but I had the proof in my hand. I was lied to and forced to arrive home in Settle eight hours later. I was given zero compensation and no apology. Under no circumstances would I ever fly United airlines again.
You might check this out: I was told that airlines only bump passengers without checked bags as it takes too long to find and remove the bags because unaccompanied bags cannot be flown without the owners on board.
You might check this out: I was told that airlines only bump passengers without checked bags as it takes too long to find and remove the bags because unaccompanied bags cannot be flown without the owners on board.
91
you are right on the bag
12
We had an 8 hour 'weather' related delay out of Hartford to Newark. Curiously, other carriers were still flying, but United did not agree to book us onto those flights.
We received no information updates. We were forced to wait for almost 8 hours at the airport, leading to a delay of 12 hours until final destination. Proper handling and information policy by United would have allowed us to take another flight to Newark or arrange for ground transportation to make our original connection flight (it's about a 120 mile trip).
The new connection flight over London Heathrow (instead of a direct flight from NYC to Berlin) was late. Again, there were several earlier flight options from Heathrow to Berlin. We were re-booked on a lowest budget carrier with a problematic safety record (GermanWings), a carrier that seems to have 3 classes of service. United apparently booked us on the lowest fare level. We were not eligible for a drink or sandwich. We also lost our reserved aisle seats. All this was neither explained nor visible on the re-booked tickets we received when still in Hartford. No drinks or food were offered by United during these 24 h except on the Newark plane. I don't recall a worse flight experience.
United customer care stated that they complied with all regulations and compensation is not applicable according to their policies. Back home, they offered us a $100 voucher as a courtesy, valid for 1 year and only on United. One should avoid United whenever possible.
We received no information updates. We were forced to wait for almost 8 hours at the airport, leading to a delay of 12 hours until final destination. Proper handling and information policy by United would have allowed us to take another flight to Newark or arrange for ground transportation to make our original connection flight (it's about a 120 mile trip).
The new connection flight over London Heathrow (instead of a direct flight from NYC to Berlin) was late. Again, there were several earlier flight options from Heathrow to Berlin. We were re-booked on a lowest budget carrier with a problematic safety record (GermanWings), a carrier that seems to have 3 classes of service. United apparently booked us on the lowest fare level. We were not eligible for a drink or sandwich. We also lost our reserved aisle seats. All this was neither explained nor visible on the re-booked tickets we received when still in Hartford. No drinks or food were offered by United during these 24 h except on the Newark plane. I don't recall a worse flight experience.
United customer care stated that they complied with all regulations and compensation is not applicable according to their policies. Back home, they offered us a $100 voucher as a courtesy, valid for 1 year and only on United. One should avoid United whenever possible.
43
Why would anyone fly from Hartford to Newark? It's a 2 hour drive.
4
Someone who doesn't want to return to Newark and have a 2 hour drive after a day in the skies, which is why I fly out of Fresno and not SAN Francisco. After a day of flying, I want to be as close to home as possible when I'm returning
1
Did you read their post? Because they were flying to Europe. And they could have arranged ground transportation to make their connection to Europe out of New York if United had told them what was going on soon enough, but they didn't.
3
Unfortunately, the airline's response to all this will not be to correct the problem but, instead, to put a little extra money into PR to convince us that there really is no problem at all.
It's all in our minds, and we don't realize how much we're bothering them when they have better things to do.
It's all in our minds, and we don't realize how much we're bothering them when they have better things to do.
25
It's noticeable that United responded by changing one policy about bumping--no mention of retraining all employees to be more sensitive and service-oriented to human beings on their flights. And, to judge from the comments, from employees at all levels on the ground as well. No mention of consequences for the CEO.
3
Art,
yep.
the powerful (often white male *sorry to offend anyone)
anyway, the those-with-power response to offending, & often horrific behavior. throw money @ it or just gaslight. then blame the 'victim.'
I'm a 62 white grandmother, people say i'm beautiful, look too young to be whatever, but the truth is, I'm an incest survivor, rape survivor, spousal abuse survivor.
What also bugged me about United was, apparently the gentleman agreed at first, but then said 'no.'
I wrote United & said, "No means NO. But apparently not for people of color (or women, children, everyone) when 'powerful' decide."
ugh, please keep #resisting all & speak truth to power.
thanks, owe you a cup of coffee ...
yep.
the powerful (often white male *sorry to offend anyone)
anyway, the those-with-power response to offending, & often horrific behavior. throw money @ it or just gaslight. then blame the 'victim.'
I'm a 62 white grandmother, people say i'm beautiful, look too young to be whatever, but the truth is, I'm an incest survivor, rape survivor, spousal abuse survivor.
What also bugged me about United was, apparently the gentleman agreed at first, but then said 'no.'
I wrote United & said, "No means NO. But apparently not for people of color (or women, children, everyone) when 'powerful' decide."
ugh, please keep #resisting all & speak truth to power.
thanks, owe you a cup of coffee ...
1
Sorry for your troubles, Jeanne. But what in the world does this have to do with male vs female, or white vs black? That's more projection than I've seen on an IMAX movie screen...
Though I was not part of the survey, count me in. I avoid US airlines anyway. Smaller spaces, poor service, poor food, disrespect and so on.
14
Or ... like me, you could just drive.
1
To London, Paris, Milan ?
Maybe from Barcelona but surely not from Cedar Rapids.
Maybe from Barcelona but surely not from Cedar Rapids.
9
I flew United last week for the first time in a year and had some minor complaints.I usually fly American but always try to find someone to beat them.Though I have their card & did use miles on my return & had a minor complaint against them,as usual.
3
As a US government employee flying on official business, I am required to be ticketed on a US carrier, under the "Fly America Act." When the travel office hands me a ticket for an international flight, I pray it's not on United. If the ticket is on United, I pray I'll actually fly on Lufthansa or another code share partner instead on a United aircraft with a United crew. If I don't, woe is me. Here is a message to United flight attendants everywhere, particularly on international flights ... if you don't like your career or your working conditions or your employer or your salary or your customers, then get the heck out of the business because I don't want to see your grumpy face, hear your crummy attitude, or sense the obvious lack of respect for your lot in life. Spare me. If I have to fly United (HAVE to), I prefer the short-haul domestic flights that the senior flight attendants abhor and which, therefore, are staffed by younger cabin crew who have not become as bitter as you have. And actually know how to smile. My favorite inflight groaner: halfway across the Atlantic, I wake up and want some water. I walk back into the galley and a flight attendant is standing there reading a newspaper on the counter. He completely ignores me although I am very clearly in range of his peripheral vision. When I deign to ask him for some water, he literally huffs, rolls his eyes and drags himself 3 feet across the galley to get me a bottle of water. Find a new job!
96
I think United will have a PR problem for awhile longer. I flew out of Burbank airport yesterday (on Alaska Airlines). The gate next to us was a United flight (I think to SFO). They announced it was overbooked and asked for volunteers. The laughter (some of it nervous) from the Alaska passengers was pretty interesting. It was loud and pervasive. I never fly United (not convenient for me) but will avoid them as much as possible (and I admit it is not much of a struggle for me to avoid flying them).
18
By all accounts, tens of thousands of regular fliers have sworn to never fly on United ever, ever again. How could a United flight possibly be overbooked. If people are truly avoiding United as this article's survey would have us believe, most United aircraft must be flying less than half full.
I suspect the "upshot" is that people behave differently than their emotional responses to a survey might indicate. In any case, some hard-hitting investigative journalist might take the time to meet a few arriving United flights and ask a sample of passengers how many empty seats were on their flight. This would let us know how travelers are actually behaving.
I suspect the "upshot" is that people behave differently than their emotional responses to a survey might indicate. In any case, some hard-hitting investigative journalist might take the time to meet a few arriving United flights and ask a sample of passengers how many empty seats were on their flight. This would let us know how travelers are actually behaving.
3
United has two intractable problems here. Decades of horrible service have caused a lot of customer anger. And the airline's treatment of Dr. Dao crystalized how the industry really seems to feel about passengers. Nobody who takes a flight is likely to forget this mess--or fly without serious second thoughts/research into other options.
12
It's not like the other airlines are so much better, but if we boycott United til they hurt, maybe the other carriers will take note. Any of you (looking at you, American) could be next.
2
In 2010, my husband and I flew in economy seats to Paris for a ten day trip. On the first day, my husband broke his hip. He spent five days in the hospital and then we needed to get home. Our daughter pleaded with several managers at United to give her dad a 1st or business class seat on a direct flight home, required by his condition. His ticket was a rewards ticket and cost us nothing but miles. The flight she requested cost $8000 one way. One of the heads of international travel granted her request. We did not pay an extra cent, were given wheelchair assistance to the Red Carpet Lounge at CDG and a 1st class seat all the way home. I wish I had video evidence of this to post. I am a United customer for life. I hope they change whatever policy lead to the treatment of this passenger and am so sorry for his injuries; but my experience of 60 years plus has given me great faith in this airline.
4
If you are white, middle-aged, and relatable to United execs, I'm sure they would treat you wonderfully. For those who don't fit into that demographic, I doubt they'd get the same treatment.
You were one in a million. Congratulations!
5
You'll have a choice of seats now anyway. Hope that hip has healed by the time they drag your husband off to accommodate Mr. Munoz.
1
Thanks you NYT for keeping focus on this issue. I was a loyal United customer and will not fly them until they make real changes. I will also not use their credit card which as the NYT has pointed out is a major source of revenue.
There are technical solutions to the problem of moving crew around when the scheduling is screwed up. These are temporary arrangements for landing and take off that do not impact revenue seating. They are: 1/ add more jump seats, 2/ make the lavatory seat usable for flying like in Lear Jets, 3/ seats are not an FAA regulation and airlines are considering doing away with them anyway, put in standing restraints. This may be inconvenient for the crew but is better than dragging someone off a flight. Since all these cost money and externalizing cost by getting the taxpayer funded police to drag out and beat up passengers is cheaper, it won't be done. But soon in-cabin recording will be prohibited for "security reasons".
There are technical solutions to the problem of moving crew around when the scheduling is screwed up. These are temporary arrangements for landing and take off that do not impact revenue seating. They are: 1/ add more jump seats, 2/ make the lavatory seat usable for flying like in Lear Jets, 3/ seats are not an FAA regulation and airlines are considering doing away with them anyway, put in standing restraints. This may be inconvenient for the crew but is better than dragging someone off a flight. Since all these cost money and externalizing cost by getting the taxpayer funded police to drag out and beat up passengers is cheaper, it won't be done. But soon in-cabin recording will be prohibited for "security reasons".
10
Are you kidding? If the airlines put in standing restraints, the last person they'll put in those is an off duty crew member! No doubt it will be some Granny who can't stand up by herself.
4
I prefer a direct flight -- even though the more expensive -- from Sao Paulo/GRU to Dulles in DC. However, from now on I'll take another air carrier, despite a stopover in Miami/Atlanta.
United Airlines has shown the worst side of American corporations lately. Lack of respect toward customers and treating them like a herd of cows sent to an abattoir.
United Airlines has shown the worst side of American corporations lately. Lack of respect toward customers and treating them like a herd of cows sent to an abattoir.
18
So you'll fly Delta or American instead? Good luck with that. I think the technical term for this is "out of the frying pan, into the fire."
5
I also travel regularly from Brazil to the USA (mostly Sao Paulo -Boston). Up until Dao-day, United was my airline of choice, mostly because I was accumulating miles and had a United Visa card. I continued with UA even though the service has gotten a lot worse. Then on my last trip, I tried out Air Canada to Boston via Toronto. It took a few hours longer, but the experience was so much more pleasant. As one of the other commenters said, American carriers are awful. I have flown almost 1/2 million miles on United, but I will never again knowingly pay for travel on United. For travel to South America, good alternatives are Air Canada, Avianca, Copa and Latam.
f
f
10
I don't have a dog in this fight involving Delta and American. But a family member is a Delta flier Pehaps you noticed that Delta ranks 2nd in passenger satisfaction, second only to Alaska .
1
Continental was wonderful. Still canneasilyntll the difference between United flight crews and Continental. Ask any frequent flier from Newark, all will agree.
10
I believe I would drive to anywhere in the 48 states and probably drive to Alaska. Unless it was an emergency and I had to get somewhere quick, I'd drive. Love to see the quirky little towns and the amazing sites all over this country. In Kansas I went down inside the largest hand-dug water well in the world. I love New York and California, but dang, they can't dig a well like Kansans can.
5
Nice for geeks with time on their hands. On your way to a funeral, not so much.
Way back when, Hitler, quite mistakenly, took his measure of America and concluded that we were too soft for war. Reading these comments, it would be easy for someone to make that same mistake again.
Longer ago than I care to remember, I set out for college on a Greyhound bus. It was $99 from the West Coast to the East Coast. The trip took 3 1/2 days. Why would I do something like that? Because air travel was prohibitively expensive--flying would have cost four or five times as much (plus I couldn't take as much luggage). You can't bathe on a Greyhound. There are screaming babies and drunks and mentally ill people and couples arguing--in short, pretty much the same people you see on airplanes today.
To read these comments about poor service and having to wait for beverages and not getting enough help stowing overhead luggage, etc., etc., etc. Thirty years ago, 75 percent of people you see on airplanes couldn't afford to fly. Now, all we do is whine about a democratization of air travel unimaginable not so long ago.
The longest possible domestic plane ride lasts something like five hours. That's hardly an eternity. I like comfort and service as much as anyone, but I also understand that there are trade-offs. If you don't like the service you're getting in coach and you can't stand a few hours sitting in less than optimal conditions, then fly first class. Better than three-quarters of the planet would give eyeteeth for the travel opportunities we enjoy.
Longer ago than I care to remember, I set out for college on a Greyhound bus. It was $99 from the West Coast to the East Coast. The trip took 3 1/2 days. Why would I do something like that? Because air travel was prohibitively expensive--flying would have cost four or five times as much (plus I couldn't take as much luggage). You can't bathe on a Greyhound. There are screaming babies and drunks and mentally ill people and couples arguing--in short, pretty much the same people you see on airplanes today.
To read these comments about poor service and having to wait for beverages and not getting enough help stowing overhead luggage, etc., etc., etc. Thirty years ago, 75 percent of people you see on airplanes couldn't afford to fly. Now, all we do is whine about a democratization of air travel unimaginable not so long ago.
The longest possible domestic plane ride lasts something like five hours. That's hardly an eternity. I like comfort and service as much as anyone, but I also understand that there are trade-offs. If you don't like the service you're getting in coach and you can't stand a few hours sitting in less than optimal conditions, then fly first class. Better than three-quarters of the planet would give eyeteeth for the travel opportunities we enjoy.
9
It is true that flying has been greatly democratized and most people can now afford to fly.
However, the problem now is not just "poor service" but service that in many cases has degenerated to the point where they are not even showing basic human decency. The example you give of not enough help stowing items overhead involved an elderly person who found it difficult to do by herself. My mother-in-law's experience of passing out yet being ignored is another example of lack of basic human decency, not just poor service.
However, the problem now is not just "poor service" but service that in many cases has degenerated to the point where they are not even showing basic human decency. The example you give of not enough help stowing items overhead involved an elderly person who found it difficult to do by herself. My mother-in-law's experience of passing out yet being ignored is another example of lack of basic human decency, not just poor service.
10
You are absolutely right, Mr. West. What happened aboard that United aircraft was wrong, but the general whining about airlines is overwrought to say the least. I hope the loudest complainers do get off the planes and into cars or trains. And I hope they take their spoiled brats and pampered pets with them!
3
The longest domestic flight would be more like 10 hrs (think NYC to HNL) and there is no bus that does that route
2
Unfortunately, the airline's response to all this will not be to correct the problem but, instead, to put a little extra money into PR to convince us that there really is no problem at all.
It's all in our minds, and we don't realize how much we're bothering them when they have better things to do.
It's all in our minds, and we don't realize how much we're bothering them when they have better things to do.
9
Great for those who want to pay more, I don't fly, mostly if I do it is on Southwest.
1
We live near Newark which used to be a Continental hub. I loved flying Continental. My husband does frequent traveling and had been Elite Silver and even one year Gold status, which meant frequent upgrades, and if our whole family was traveling with him, we automatically got the preferred coach seats in the front. Service was excellent and I always felt good flying with them.
Then Continental merged with United and its been downhill ever since. Planes are more crowded, there are more fees, the gate people seem ruder, and in general are less helpful. Last summer we traveled to Portugal and the baggage handlers destroyed my parents' suitcase. There was a giant gash on one side when it arrived. Also, my mother had been using a walker which took an hour to recover after all the other baggage had been unloaded. When we went to report the broken luggage, we were told to take the suitcase to a mall in Lisbon to get it repaired. Is this how anyone wants to spend their holiday, dealing with luggage repair? Luckily, I had booked a private tour of Lisbon and our wonderful guide took us to the mall in Lisbon and explained to the people in the store what had happened and urged the salespeople to find a way to give us a good impression of Portugal. The salespeople gave us the luggage for free. End result, my impression of the people of Portugal: EXCELLENT. My impression of United: WORSE THAN EVER.
Then Continental merged with United and its been downhill ever since. Planes are more crowded, there are more fees, the gate people seem ruder, and in general are less helpful. Last summer we traveled to Portugal and the baggage handlers destroyed my parents' suitcase. There was a giant gash on one side when it arrived. Also, my mother had been using a walker which took an hour to recover after all the other baggage had been unloaded. When we went to report the broken luggage, we were told to take the suitcase to a mall in Lisbon to get it repaired. Is this how anyone wants to spend their holiday, dealing with luggage repair? Luckily, I had booked a private tour of Lisbon and our wonderful guide took us to the mall in Lisbon and explained to the people in the store what had happened and urged the salespeople to find a way to give us a good impression of Portugal. The salespeople gave us the luggage for free. End result, my impression of the people of Portugal: EXCELLENT. My impression of United: WORSE THAN EVER.
17
Last night, I bought tickets on Delta. On the airline ratings site Delta has 7/7 for safety AND for product. Good enough for my piece of mind.
http://www.airlineratings.com/ratings/51/delta-air-lines
http://www.airlineratings.com/ratings/51/delta-air-lines
5
I have avoided United for years. I am not a frequent flier, but when I have had to fly on United have most often had a sense of a superior attitude (and not in a good way) on the part of cabin personnel.
8
Me too,they were snooty....
4
How quickly we forget that these same airlines were losing billions only a few years ago, which brought about the very consolidation and cost-cutting and capacity focus we live with today. It wasn't about greed, it was literally about survival.
The airlines can do much better at customer service and comfort. No doubt. But let's keep the big picture in mind. Overall, fares are far lower than in "the good old days," even with the fees. And a healthy, profitable airline industry is a good thing for all of us. Taking down United -- if that's your protest pipe dream -- would only mean further consolidation and less competition.
The airlines can do much better at customer service and comfort. No doubt. But let's keep the big picture in mind. Overall, fares are far lower than in "the good old days," even with the fees. And a healthy, profitable airline industry is a good thing for all of us. Taking down United -- if that's your protest pipe dream -- would only mean further consolidation and less competition.
6
Chris, I think you miss the point. Gas prices have come down, profits have gone up, and service has only gotten worse. It doesn't cost the airline anything to make sure their personnel are not surly. The disdain for the passenger has nothing to do with decreasing profitability. If anything, an improvement in attitude might help its bottom line. The flights are incredibly and unnecessarily unpleasant. If only the other US airlines were any better.
11
My daughter has booked round-trip passage on a United flight from Hawaii to the East Coast. She is so angry with United that she was going to book on another airline and skip the United Flight, even though she would lose the fare already paid to United. As she makes the round trip at least twice a year, I suggested that she keep her reservations for this trip since changing now wouldn't hurt United, but that, for future trips, she book on another airline. That's what she's going to do. Multiply her reaction by heaven knows how many other people feel as she does and I bet that would add up to a great big financial loss to United. That's what they deserves.
20
Somehow this eventuality was a long time coming. United must be the only airline that bumps off seated passengers in order to give their employees seats. What arrogance and entitlement. If this is what an employee-owned company is like then give me a private or a widely held public company of an airline anytime. I fly mostly with either Delta and American and then if I had no more choice maybe United or the budget airlines. If Delta or American needed seats for other paying passengers they would ask for volunteers well before the boarding process, never after they are already in their places. If United give employees on holiday priority (as may or may not have happened in Dr Dao's case) then that is not acceptable. If they needed to fly a crew to Louisville so they could man a flight from there then that indicates bad planning and poor management systems on United's part. In any event this has exposed what I already sensed before - United attendants may not treat passengers so nicely compared with their peers. Something has got to change. If boycotting the airline is what would make that change then so be it, Let their experience be an example to the others in the industry that consumers will push back abuse considering we pay them so much already for things that used to be part of the airfare.
10
United are able to carry on treating passengers badly because the passenger body as a whole puts up with it. Hoping this will change things.
10
I avoid United and AAA come what may - an oligopoly and a mockery of free market!
6
Triple A or American?
I have a good friend who has worked for United most of his career - he is retiring next year. The stories he tells are not remarkable in the sense of interactions with passengers, but in the disdain and disrespect he has for the passengers and company. United's problems may not be unique, but they are deep.
25
You are very generous and insightful to have this perspective on the United employee, your "good friend." Many would by now have disowned him. May some of that generosity and insight seep into his own heart.
1
One interesting question is how many members of Congress take commercial flights at the lower air fares, which many of us must do to save money, and how many pay for their own, non-Congressional health insurance. Sometimes so-called deregulated freedom of choice is what Kris Kristofferson described as nothing left to lost.
4
Several years ago, I was scheduled to fly out of O'Hare on United. I was wary as my experience with United had been up to that point universally bad. The rudeness of the agents and flight crew was off-scale and on-time flight performance poor. I was limited in my choice at that time due to a tight series of meetings.
Early that morning, I was informed that my flight had been changed from 9:00 AM to what I thought was 8:55 AM (it was actually 8:55 PM). After I checked in at the kiosk, I found that I could not check my luggage (as it was too early), but at the time I couldn't figure out what was happening. I pressed the help button to have an agent call me on the phone attached to the kiosk. No one called. The kiosk was located directly in front of the check-in counter, so I looked up and politely asked once if the agent could help me.
She replied, "If you talk to me again, I'm going to call security."
I was so shocked that I immediately called a travel agent, canceled my next meeting and rebooked a flight on American. I have not flown United since, nor will I ever fly them again. United's current challenges do not surprise me in the least.
Early that morning, I was informed that my flight had been changed from 9:00 AM to what I thought was 8:55 AM (it was actually 8:55 PM). After I checked in at the kiosk, I found that I could not check my luggage (as it was too early), but at the time I couldn't figure out what was happening. I pressed the help button to have an agent call me on the phone attached to the kiosk. No one called. The kiosk was located directly in front of the check-in counter, so I looked up and politely asked once if the agent could help me.
She replied, "If you talk to me again, I'm going to call security."
I was so shocked that I immediately called a travel agent, canceled my next meeting and rebooked a flight on American. I have not flown United since, nor will I ever fly them again. United's current challenges do not surprise me in the least.
104
That's the standard UA call at Denver when flights are cancelled. " Pls step aside or we'll call security".
I actually don't think the Customer Service there really work for United.
I actually don't think the Customer Service there really work for United.
17
I intend to remind my network on a monthly basis of the United incident. You may choose your pocketbook over basic decency but I will not let you say you forgot.
17
In UAL's hometown no less... My girlfriend and I visited her family in Europe in March 2017, but she refused to take UAL. Since we flew through MUN, the logical choice was Lufthansa - a Star Alliance Partner - but we also made sure that this was not a shared code trip. We each ended-up paying about $75 more for the flight over a similar United flight, but the service was superb and the trip was seamless.
UAL's "customer service", or what substitutes for customer service, goes back at least a decade when I was flying regularly for my work. The violence is a new low even for UAL.
UAL's "customer service", or what substitutes for customer service, goes back at least a decade when I was flying regularly for my work. The violence is a new low even for UAL.
18
Two years ago I took a Delta flight to Kauai, to avoid United. This choice imposed the condition of arguing with the rental counter dude at 9:30 p.m., 12:30 a.m. Los Angeles time. I left with a huge grey Lincoln, the trunk large enough to hold two bodies. My family was delighted and immediately started calling me "Lincoln lawyer." I managed to avoid the one-way bridges, but the car clearly screamed "tourist" all over the island.
3
The last United flight I was on from Texas to Oregon, I asked for water and it was delivered by a metal pitcher, clearly from a bulk water supply. A mistake.
Within 24 hours, that evening when I had returned home, I became deathly ill with some form of water-born infection. I had only well-cooked home food before I drank the water And nothing subsequent to it. A seat-mate next to me with whom I had exchanged phone numbers, also experienced the same GI problems in the same time delay. I told United's customer service line all of this, as well as having had two doctor's appointments to address it.
I received a run around by United, and given another two numbers I should call to make a report. Still reeling from fever and illness, the last thing I wanted to do was invest the time in trying to protect a company who appeared to have no interest in following through on my complaint with the abundant information I had already given then. And, now this report of passenger abuse.
UNITED AIR IS TO BE AVOIDED - CUSTOMERS ARE ONLY INCOME TO THEM.
Within 24 hours, that evening when I had returned home, I became deathly ill with some form of water-born infection. I had only well-cooked home food before I drank the water And nothing subsequent to it. A seat-mate next to me with whom I had exchanged phone numbers, also experienced the same GI problems in the same time delay. I told United's customer service line all of this, as well as having had two doctor's appointments to address it.
I received a run around by United, and given another two numbers I should call to make a report. Still reeling from fever and illness, the last thing I wanted to do was invest the time in trying to protect a company who appeared to have no interest in following through on my complaint with the abundant information I had already given then. And, now this report of passenger abuse.
UNITED AIR IS TO BE AVOIDED - CUSTOMERS ARE ONLY INCOME TO THEM.
56
I have flown many companies including Air France, British Air, Quantas, Lufthansa, American, Delta, Alaska. But it was thirty years ago. The problem today is the cheap (and silent) US consumer and the Federal Aviation Agency. In this case it was also an overzealous and poorly trained police agency plus UAL ground agents without the brains and potential for sound judgement god gave them.
7
The entire experiment was skewed because the only choices were United and American, quite possibly the two WORST airlines in the country. A better comparison would have been United and Southwest or Jet Blue. After bitter experience, my personal rule is that if American is the only way to get somewhere, I won't go. (They left me stranded on an island when they sent a plane to pick up a flight full of delayed passengers, but didn't provide a flight crew who had enough flight time left that day to fly our route. Since the plane arrived full of passengers, all the hotel rooms on the island were full. So my children and I, and the other stranded passengers, spent the night on the floor of the airport looking at a perfectly good airplane that American had failed to staff properly.) I try to fly Southwest whenever possible, but of course they don't fly to Europe. My last couple trips to France on United were uneventful, so I would fly them again. (My last flight to Europe was on British Airways, which provided the worst boarding experiences of any airline I have ever flown. I'll never fly them again, either.) If only Southwest could fly to Europe... Also, I try to avoid islands. At least in the US, if necessary I can rent a car and drive home.
5
On the other hand, because this was a comparison of the two worst airlines, it controlled for airline quality, so differences were much more likely attributable to knowledge about how United treats (or treated) its passengers.
3
Aloha. I understand that Hawaiian Airlines gives fine service. So, if Hawaiian flies into an airport near you, you could visit the Hawaiian Islands without being abused.
4
Interesting experiment.
When it comes to price and elasticity and consumer behavior, though, the only real test is when real dollars are about to be spent.
We'll see over time if price trumps rage.
My guess? If this was a crowded market with many competitors, all sorts of shopping around might take place. But with relatively few choices, price will carry the day and most of us -- against our better judgement -- will forget their self-inflicted nightmare and go with the bargain.
When it comes to price and elasticity and consumer behavior, though, the only real test is when real dollars are about to be spent.
We'll see over time if price trumps rage.
My guess? If this was a crowded market with many competitors, all sorts of shopping around might take place. But with relatively few choices, price will carry the day and most of us -- against our better judgement -- will forget their self-inflicted nightmare and go with the bargain.
3
I haven't flown United since they stranded me in Denver overnight (February 2011) after grounding their whole fleet due to a software thing they'd ignored for seven years, or whatever that FAA thing was.
Don't miss it at all; Southwest, Virgin America, Alaska and other airlines have done just fine for me. I am done with American and Delta, too. Staying away from the Big Three is easy, actually.
Don't miss it at all; Southwest, Virgin America, Alaska and other airlines have done just fine for me. I am done with American and Delta, too. Staying away from the Big Three is easy, actually.
14
Results of this survey are highly suspect. When it comes down to it, no way do people pay more money to fly, or take longer. No way. Past population behavior patterns tell me I'm right.
3
It would be great to see your data. I definitely have paid more and sometimes flown with layovers to avoid flying American Airlines and now I am adding United to the list.
The mentality to which you allude is part of the reason the American consumer gets treated like cattle! Too many of us are willing to pay for the privilege!
The mentality to which you allude is part of the reason the American consumer gets treated like cattle! Too many of us are willing to pay for the privilege!
3
I usually go for the cheapest ticket where the flight meets all my criteria. It is not the rock bottom ticket price. I won't fly excessively early or late, not more than one connection, no connection with a layover shorter than one hour, no layover at certain hubs, and now, not on any United flight. So, yes, I will spend $100 more per ticket for adding that one criterion, but mentally, I am still going for the lowest price that meets my criteria.
1
Since reading about the United incident, a question, irreverent, has lurked around the edges:
"When authorities began to use violence to solve the situation, why did no other passenger offer to give up his seat?"
"When authorities began to use violence to solve the situation, why did no other passenger offer to give up his seat?"
7
Good question.
My best guess is that, when the real mayhem began, most people probably made a quick calculation that any intervention -- up to and including simply standing up -- might carry its own danger.
It's easy to overlook the terror of bystanders in a situation like this. In fact, I am fairly certain that some of the onlookers on the plane will bring law suits that United will choose to settle.
My best guess is that, when the real mayhem began, most people probably made a quick calculation that any intervention -- up to and including simply standing up -- might carry its own danger.
It's easy to overlook the terror of bystanders in a situation like this. In fact, I am fairly certain that some of the onlookers on the plane will bring law suits that United will choose to settle.
18
Here's why:
If I observed another passenger treated this way, the very last thing I would do is speak up, or attempt to intervene. I would be terrified that the authority agression would immediately turn on me. During this episode, even attempting a calm offer could result in a negative response. That woman who was screaming at them during the video took a huge risk for herself. I'm surprised she didn't get booted off as well.
If I observed another passenger treated this way, the very last thing I would do is speak up, or attempt to intervene. I would be terrified that the authority agression would immediately turn on me. During this episode, even attempting a calm offer could result in a negative response. That woman who was screaming at them during the video took a huge risk for herself. I'm surprised she didn't get booted off as well.
29
That level of violence was unexpected and by the time any other passenger could have volunteered Dr Dao had already been knocked unconscious.
7
Two companies I have been avoiding for years are UA and Payless. One can only take so many negative experiences before the brain decides enough is enough.
8
Glad to know I'm not the only one who gets blisters and worse from any Payless shoes.
About three years ago, I decided to stop using United for all the reasons that other commenters have already mentioned. But both my wife and I have miles accumulated in the Mileage Plus program. So in planning a trip to Europe, we booked ourselves on other airlines (Virgin America, Icelandair and Norwegian) going east, but our return from Brussels to San Francisco intended to burn up everything left in the bank. It was *impossible* to actually book a nonstop from Brussels to SFO with miles, even though there were obviously seats on the flights we wanted to take. So we booked Brussels to Chicago/O'Hare in International Business class, and O'Hare to SFO in domestic first class. The intercontinental flight was delightful, a real revelation that United could do it right when they wanted to. But once back on American soil, the rest of the experience devolved into the same crappy passenger experience we'd come to know and loath from UAL. I won't go into the specifics of why that was, but the reasons would come as no surprise to anyone who's flown them in this century, and we have not set foot on a United flight since then, even if the alternatives inconvenienced us. I think you have to take a stand until the UAL management either gets religion or has their "Come to Jesus" moment. Last week's debacle indicates that neither has happened yet.
23
As long as the Chicago police doesn't beat up the UA pilots (before take-off) I would fly the any time. The more passengers being upset with UA the more space for me.
4
Until they start cutting flights due to lack of demand of course.
2
Until all they do is fly their own crew members around.
2
Sweet! More seats for me.
If one thinks moving airlines will solve the indignity, it will not. Only by being a frequent flier will treatment approximate anything better than an old dirty Greyhound.
Safe, but not pleasant
If one thinks moving airlines will solve the indignity, it will not. Only by being a frequent flier will treatment approximate anything better than an old dirty Greyhound.
Safe, but not pleasant
7
I gave up on United long ago because their service was even worse, their delays more predictable, and luggage lost more frequently than other airlines, all of which are awful. I recently took Amtrak across the country, and one of the best parts was giving the metaphorical finger to the airline industry all the way from SF to Chicago.
13
These people were part of a study, and not actually buying tickets. Believe it or not, what people say they will do, and what they actually do, are often two very different things. An example: How many said they would vote for Trump in the polls? Not enough for him to win the election. But then look what happened.
People can say what they want. But I can almost guarantee that of the many of the respondents who said they would pay more, or make the extra stop, to avoid UA wouldn't. At the same price and both non-stop - sure, I can see that but people are very fickle, especially when it comes to air travel, and time and time again, most prove that they care only about price.
Also, there is a lot of blaming the wrong place here. Yes, UA should take some blame - for causing the issue forcing last minute denied boardings, as well as their awful initial response. However, there is plenty of blame to go around the other parties. The city of Chicago really needs to step up - nobody would even know about this flight if their employees didnt step well overboard in the way they attempted to remove the passenger. The passenger himself is not blameless either - I get he felt wronged by being asked to leave the plane, but ignoring crew instructions and then Law enforcement/security instructions is not the right way to handle either.
People can say what they want. But I can almost guarantee that of the many of the respondents who said they would pay more, or make the extra stop, to avoid UA wouldn't. At the same price and both non-stop - sure, I can see that but people are very fickle, especially when it comes to air travel, and time and time again, most prove that they care only about price.
Also, there is a lot of blaming the wrong place here. Yes, UA should take some blame - for causing the issue forcing last minute denied boardings, as well as their awful initial response. However, there is plenty of blame to go around the other parties. The city of Chicago really needs to step up - nobody would even know about this flight if their employees didnt step well overboard in the way they attempted to remove the passenger. The passenger himself is not blameless either - I get he felt wronged by being asked to leave the plane, but ignoring crew instructions and then Law enforcement/security instructions is not the right way to handle either.
5
Disagree that Dr Dao was to blame. He had patients to see at the end of his flight.
6
He didn't ignore them, he refused them. They offered him a choice as a legitimate one and he declined. The UA attendants should have left him to his seat after that.
1
While I try to avoid Chicago, regardless of the airline, I am going to fly the quickest route with the fewest stops, with some regard for cost. The fun went out of flying (unless you are flying Emirates or Korean Air or JAL) a long time ago. Most people are too cheap to spring the extra $60.00 for a domestic first-class upgrade, or extra for an aisle seat on an exit row. Most Americans don't care about quality or service. In two months no one will remember this story. Conclusion: people will say they are going to do something about some injustice, but most are just sheep.
3
Not THIS heifer. Seriously.
4
$60 for an upgrade to first class? Things are more expensive now. And the planes no longer have propellers.
10
Too bad they didn't ask if passengers would be willing to fly United if they got to beat the United management and staff about the head and shoulders first. Might have got some takers.
11
Eheheheh. Indeed. ;)
I hate to put in a good word for United, since they clearly don't deserve one. But I should acknowledge that my experience with United's service is a step up from that offered by Interflug (DDR's airline) and Aeroflot in the early 1980s. Much better than CAAC (1986). Also an improvement on Lao Airlines (2010) and Yangon Airways (2012). And I've heard that North Korea's Air Koryo also comes up short of the UAL standard. No point in comparing UAL with Alaska or JetBlue, let alone Singapore or Emirates. Let's stick to rotten apples vs. rotten apples.
P.S.: I have more than 1.5M UAL miles and 800K American miles.
P.S.: I have more than 1.5M UAL miles and 800K American miles.
5
Poor Bluevoter. You may lose those UAL miles so better use them up. I used to have them and then realized they were expiring every years. Now they send me mailers persuading me to use UA miles to buy magazine subscriptions.
2
The only thing I can do is expand the radius I'm willing to drive to avoid flying. It was about 5 hours (300 miles or so) 10 years ago. I have personally had so many bad experiences, that I'm now willing to drive 12 hours (700 miles or so) to avoid flying. Until it hits the airlines on the profit side, they will keep treating people like cattle. I think there are less airlines now then when it was a regulated monopoly. It is time we push congress to regulate the airlines again. You think it would be an easy win for them since no one likes the airlines, but I'm sure big money will influence that.
7
I quit flying United years ago over poor customer service and treatment. I avoid it at all costs!
8
I fly about 125,000 per year. I used to fly United as my preferred airline. I had so many horrible experiences (and witnessed others) that I quit them more than 10 years ago. United both makes a lot of mistakes and is arrogant and dismissive -- a really bad combination.
In my personal experience American is the worst due to incompetence so that leaves Delay and Southwest of the big airlines. All airline travel is difficult but those two are measurably better.
In my personal experience American is the worst due to incompetence so that leaves Delay and Southwest of the big airlines. All airline travel is difficult but those two are measurably better.
12
None of the major US Airlines are any better than United. They all stink. The airlines have not only picked up the stormtrooper mentality of the Border Patrol and TSA, but they also gouge customers financially. Last summer, I was on vacation in Australia. I had to take 3 internal flights on a local Australian carrier. The experience was entirely different than in the US. Everyone was expected to put their luggage in the hold (for free). No one was allowed on with more than 1 bag weighing 15 lbs. And one shows up at the airport expecting to get through the process and onto the plane in about 15 minutes. The whole set up was so efficient that people were on and off of the plane in record time. The luggage handlers were at at the gate and unloading luggage before the passenger doors were opened (always 2 doors opened--front and back--it's more efficient.) The luggage beat the passengers. All the same security was in place but the stress level for passengers and airline personnel was non-existent. We can do a better job. We choose not to do a better job. To do a better job implies that passengers are worthy of respect. The airlines don't want passengers to believe they are worthy of respect. Since people have no real choices, it is easier to turn them into sheep.
34
How many on the flight? How many flights at the airport??
I get much better service at OKC, DLH, or ESC than I do at MSP, ORD, or IAH. Simple math.
I get much better service at OKC, DLH, or ESC than I do at MSP, ORD, or IAH. Simple math.
2
I just booked a June trip to Ohio and Michigan; I'm taking the train. No TSA, no long airport lines, no trip out to/from the airport, a dining car—not a cattle car!
15
I was once a United 1K member. But I started avoiding United years ago. Even as a 1K member I was treated like dirt if I happened to find myself in the back of the plane. I fly Eva Air to Asia, excellent service, a flight crew that knows how to smile and my bicycle flies as one of my free checked bags! In baggage claim in Taipei I asked an Eva air employee where my oversize bicycle could be picked up. She pointed me to the area but as I was collecting my regular bag this Eva air employee showed up wheeling my bike box over to me!!! Service still exists just not from American companies. Sad! to quote our president...
24
I try very, very hard not to get on a plane. Drive or take the train. Only fly if there is no other option.
10
(Saving) money talks. So people will continue fly United, but only because they have to, not because they want to. United Airlines has built itself to become a business of rules and orders, fears and submissions, compliance and authority. The crew's behaviors speak volume of who they are and how they are treated at work. It is very difficult to change a culture unless its people are changed or replaced. This takes time and efforts and determination. As long as United Airlines management is still in place with its same mentality of "us" vs. "them", passengers will continue to be those that the crew needs to push into submission.
10
In our years of flying coast to coast, to Asia, Europe and Australia, and had accumulated amazing number of points over the years from United, my husband and I are spending all our accumulated points, may be donate them just so we can punish United. I personally had been disrespected numerous time. The one most egregious wass when I swapped seat with my husband due to late booking. I booked early and got a business class seat in full fare, while my husband got stuck in economy squished by the front door and the window side. I offered my husband my bussines class seat so he could stretch his legs. After in-flight for awhle, I decided to visit my husband to ask for something. As soon as I got upstairs 1st class, the attendance told me I was not allowed there, that I need to leave immediately. I replied that I just wanted to ask my husband a question. She told me I need to leave immediately or she would call the pilot. I then told her I own the seat. She left to check the passenger's list. Well, I am Asian and my husband is White! Story explained! I have many more stories to tell yet. Bye, bye United for good, including creditcard.
I hope Dr. Doa's terrible experience with United will be sufficient to make United improve its customer service. Meanwhile, we'll fly other Airlines.
I hope Dr. Doa's terrible experience with United will be sufficient to make United improve its customer service. Meanwhile, we'll fly other Airlines.
41
Actually this whole incident with Mr Dao had more to do with police brutality and than it did with United airlines. However the Media and everyone had gone overboard the last few years with the police brutality thing, so they needed something new so they decided to go after United airlines. The general lemmings who are conditioned by social media to read a headline and get worked up over it, without taking the time to examine what is really going on. bought it lock stock and barrel.
9
Steve, you have omitted a critical point. United personnel called the aviation police. Hence, they bear the responsibility for aviation police officers' action.
7
Actually this incident was precipitated by UA employees accommodating the wishes of a crew wanting to get to their flight origination city a day early (they were not scheduled to fly until the next afternoon). And there were several ways for them to get to St. Louis, including Amtrak! But perhaps they had dinner reservations at a jazz club. Perfectly good reason to displace a seated passenger from his seat.
9
Steve, general public did not get "worked up" over it. We've had enough of it. United Airlines and other American airlines have treated passengers as though we need them more than they need us. They use rules and orders to beat us into compliance and submission. They treat passengers the ways government treats its citizens: with rules and orders. To the crew, as long as it is fair, safe, and legal, they are protected and should continue to exist. UA and airlines must realize they are businesses and businesses need customers and their loyalty. Anyone who thinks that the way UA treated Dr. Dao was appropriate as a business should never work in customer service business. What UA did may, or might, be legal, but should never be tolerated as a business. It must stop to exist as a business operation.
10
Hypothetical? Here's what happens in the real world: I often fly Jetblue, and I always pay the extra $50 or so for extra legroom (lots of it in the exit rows) and priority boarding. The seats in my row are often empty, which I'm not unhappy about it, even though the rest of the plane is fully booked. It's a vivid illustration that most people -- no matter what they claim -- are not willing to pay even a little more for better service and more comfort. Hypothetical indeed...and hypocritical.
11
Chris, who are you to decide to who can or cannot afford "an extra $50" for amenities like extra leg room?
3
You are reminding me of an American Airlines radio advertisement that I heard twice (before it was probably pulled). In a vaguely bored, condescending voice, a white women said, "I don't know why people complain about air travel today. I know how to travel," and went on to describe how she paid additional money for additional services in order to have a pleasant (i.e., normal) service experience. Why is it hypocritical to expect a basic standard of non-rude service included basic price? Why is it hypocritical to expect decent service without an extra charge?
5
It's not about who I am... it's about the way life actually works. Extras cost extra. Always have, always will.
1
Not being a frequent flyer I would happily pay a lot more to return to the friendly skies of the '60s and '70s...
10
At the rates when the airlines were still regulated in 1976, an LA-NY round trip would cost $1,586 in today's dollars. Yesterday you could find a rate under $600 round trip on JetBlue with two free checked bags and one free carry on, no change fee, and expedited security (and still cheaper fares on JetBlue if you were willing to forego a couple of those amenities). That's quite a difference. Granted, you can't get that good a deal on every route, but most routes are far cheaper than they were when the skies were "friendly"--if you could afford it. We really do tend to forget just how expensive air travel was in the '60s and '70s. The airlines' experience post-deregulation has shown that for most people, the most important factor in choosing a flight is the price point. And the lower fares have helped make flying these days so unpleasant for two reasons. The first is the airlines' attempts to remain profitable (they are very profitable right now, but a few years ago they were losing money hand over foot) by cramming more people onto the planes, maintaining high load factors, and dropping as many amenities as possible. The second reason is that the lower fares have enabled more people to fly more frequently, making for crowded airports as well as crowded planes. We all just seem to want it all.
5
Exactly Annie! The ticket prices for most travel within the US has remained stagnant or even decreased over the last 20 years. The airlines will react to the growing demand of it's customers. And as of right now the only thing the majority of customer's appear to prioritize is cost. When the consumer majority decides that they are willing to pay more for a better product the airlines will provide it. And if you don't care for how they treat their customers or the product they are selling you have other, more expensive and much more time consuming options.
1
I wonder what happened to those "field surcharges" which were tagged on due to high oil prices.
Actually, i don;t wonder at all. It's all par for the course, and deception is the least of it.
Airlines and banks: the perfect case for the disastrous consequences of deregulation!
Actually, i don;t wonder at all. It's all par for the course, and deception is the least of it.
Airlines and banks: the perfect case for the disastrous consequences of deregulation!
4
What this implies is that United is toast and should rightfully shut down operations.
That would be a just action.
That would be a just action.
4
Yeah, Clyde, I'm sure they're considering that. Or...maybe they'll make a few changes and be just fine.
5
Very simple: don't fly the big American companies. Any of them. For international flights you'll get more respect and better service by any other carrier. For domestic flights, use small companies.
Also, beware of frequent flyer programs: the get rewards you sacrifice freedom.
Also, beware of frequent flyer programs: the get rewards you sacrifice freedom.
4
What small domestic airlines are you referring to?
3
The study is intrinsically biased by sensational, incomplete, and factually inaccurate reporting by the Corporate Outrage Machines of a bloodthirsty media gorging itself on billions of clicks. What if the respondents had access to thorough, accurate, and unbiased coverage of the actual event, in which the physical harm to the passenger was directly caused by security personnel employed by the Chicago Department of Aviation (whose brutish actions were not directed or requested by the airline), and by the inexplicably odd behavior of the passenger himself? What if they were informed that the behavior of one single passenger who, convinced that his own needs were somehow more important than those of hundreds of others, behaved like a spoiled 4-year-old child, escalated the matter into a physical confrontation with security personnel, and wrought havoc with the travel plans of hundreds by creating an appalling spectacle in which everyone loses.
Except he himself, who stands to profit handsomely in the end.
Except he himself, who stands to profit handsomely in the end.
9
So Like United you are blaming the 69 years old doctor who refused to leave the seat he had fully booked and paid for ? It is his fault if United treated him like dirt ?
14
Yes.
He decided he was more important than everyone else on the plane,as well as the plane that the boarded crew members were to fly.
He decided he was more important than everyone else on the plane,as well as the plane that the boarded crew members were to fly.
And if you had been in the situations, you would have meekly left the airplane? To wait how long to make your flight? All because United can't run an airline?
4
In my opinion, United Airlines will not suffer long term effects from this tragic incident. The thugs who were in charge of 'security' could have manhandled travellers on other airlines. Finally, the attention span of our contemporaries is so greatly reduced. There will probably be a generous out-of-court settlement for Dao and many promises to avoid this sort of mishap. No further repercussions will occur, for most people only think of their own interests-- and bank account, too.
3
I think the results would have been different if people were actually taking these flights. It all comes down to fare and convenience, and I don't anyone who isn't a hard-core SJW is going to avoid United if it costs them time and money.
Also United has the best frequent flier program in the business. I hope this little incident keeps them from whittling away at it.
Also United has the best frequent flier program in the business. I hope this little incident keeps them from whittling away at it.
2
Fly a smaller, independent carrier whenever possible; Jet Blue, Virgin, Alaskan, or one of the many foreign airlines that provide so much better care of their passengers.
The CEO of United should resign or be fired (and lose his 50 million compensation package). He is responsible for the culture of his organization although he refuses to acknowledge this.
Monopolies stink.
The CEO of United should resign or be fired (and lose his 50 million compensation package). He is responsible for the culture of his organization although he refuses to acknowledge this.
Monopolies stink.
40
The fish stinks from the head. Most western "legacy" carriers are run today by CEO's & managers firmly believing that selling seats on an airplane is like selling chewing gum. The apalling result can be seen with United whose managers with huge egos and as much incompetence think they can outsmart the customer and haven't yet checked that air travel should still be a "people's business" where People serve People!...
24
Consumers are notorious for saying one thing in surveys and doing another. Who wouldn't want to punish United, eight? But when it comes down to actual money and time, people go the route of least resistance.
8
I still go for miles on an almost-empty gas tank just to avoid patronizing Exxon/Mobil. Why? I still remember the Exxon Valdez incident. Also avoiding BP....that leaves me Shell and Valeo.
7
What would really help this discussion is complete and accurate coverage of the story. This was a United branded flight, so they own a lot of the fallout from this. However, the airline wasn't United. It was Republic Airlines. Republic employees did not pull Dr. Dao off the airplane; airport authority personnel did.
Were there many screw ups in this event? Absolutely!
Is there a trend of people getting roughed up when they don't follow legal instructions? No--this is the first one I've heard of.
Will United learn from this? You bet they will.
Are all the other airlines thanking their lucky stars this wasn't them, and also learning from this? Yup.
Were there many screw ups in this event? Absolutely!
Is there a trend of people getting roughed up when they don't follow legal instructions? No--this is the first one I've heard of.
Will United learn from this? You bet they will.
Are all the other airlines thanking their lucky stars this wasn't them, and also learning from this? Yup.
10
United contracts with Republic Airlines--so, contrary to your post, United owns this problem completely. Also, it's not like Aviation police just wandered onto this flight. Republic employees called and asked for their assistance. What did they think, that the police were going to just shake their finger and Dao and call him a bad, bad passenger? They knew exactly what they were doing. Furthermore, none of the Republic employees intervened or protested when the police violently assaulted the passenger.
14
In the military there are such things as illegal orders and those who choose to follow them, like the security thugs in this instance, can be punished for following them.
6
I still maintain that much of the degradation in customer service has come about post-9/11, because passengers are afraid to complain to airline staff for fear of being labelled “disruptive” and being booted off or even arrested.
80
Absolutely, Linda. They've been handed the power of a hammer and we all look like nails to flight attendants, now, as well as airport personnel. Afraid to utter a peep or even look sideways at them.
Once pre 9-11 I had heated words aloft with a flight attendant due to her bad attitude and deliberate, disdainful poor service. There is zero doubt in my mind that had that incident occurred post 9-11 I'd still be doing hard time in some sort of federal clink. They wield their petty power because let's face it, it's about all they have besides their meagre wages and grim working conditions.
Once pre 9-11 I had heated words aloft with a flight attendant due to her bad attitude and deliberate, disdainful poor service. There is zero doubt in my mind that had that incident occurred post 9-11 I'd still be doing hard time in some sort of federal clink. They wield their petty power because let's face it, it's about all they have besides their meagre wages and grim working conditions.
6
This is pure nonsense. All that most people care about is the lowest possible price on a flight that meets their schedule. Which is a primary reason that service and comfort are NOT priorities for airlines -- passengers themselves are driving this race to the bottom.
That said, I hope the soft boycott sticks around a while so my United flights to the NYC area are less crowded...
That said, I hope the soft boycott sticks around a while so my United flights to the NYC area are less crowded...
8
I agree that passengers themselves are driving the race to the bottom (not that I don't think the airlines could be doing a better job than they're doing, but when the flying public regularly chooses to purchase tickets based on price and not service, it's certainly going to have an impact on what the airlines choose to do.) Mostly, though, no one wants to admit their own complicity in creating any of the kinds of results that we furiously complain about.
6
Annie,
You said it far better than I did: "No one wants to admit their own complicity in creating any of the kinds of results that we furiously complain about."
If the airlines were to be re-regulated, which will never happen, fares would likely double or triple. Then, the very same frugalistas would be screaming about how they can't afford to fly!
You said it far better than I did: "No one wants to admit their own complicity in creating any of the kinds of results that we furiously complain about."
If the airlines were to be re-regulated, which will never happen, fares would likely double or triple. Then, the very same frugalistas would be screaming about how they can't afford to fly!
3
One last thing about basic economy fare on United. You can not choose your seat. You are assigned a seat on the day you travel and that is your seat. That means families don't necessarily get seats together though I understand that small children do get to sit with their parents or guardians.
5
I just booked a flight for my family and chose a $750 Jet Blue flight over a $580 United flight costing us an extra $510. The United flight involved a longer layover and a less-convenient arrival but normally I would have considered it for the $500 savings. After this incident I'm simply not going to fly them anymore, a powerful statement from someone who's parents both worked for UAL and who literally grew up flying that airline.
61
I'm no fan of the airlines, but we have to take some responsibility for how truly awful flying (at least domestically) has become. Everyone wants a bargain, and lower tier airfares are certainly that. But do we have a right to complain when we get the level of service we're paying for? Would you rather spend similar money for a 1000 mile bus ride (12 hours or so) or two hours in the worst seat on even United?
There is no defending indifferent, if not abusive, corporate behavior. United has never been known for their customer service. And this latest gaffe will cost them as dearly as they deserve. But in our rush to both our judgment and destinations, it would help us to remember we're getting what we pay for. If you spend more for even just an economy-plus seat, you're not likely to be dragged off by your heels any time soon.
There is no defending indifferent, if not abusive, corporate behavior. United has never been known for their customer service. And this latest gaffe will cost them as dearly as they deserve. But in our rush to both our judgment and destinations, it would help us to remember we're getting what we pay for. If you spend more for even just an economy-plus seat, you're not likely to be dragged off by your heels any time soon.
4
With airlines making record profits, we, as passengers, are not getting what we pay for. Instead, we are victims of unbridled corporate greed. Airfares continue to rise even with record low fuel prices. Airlines continue to add new "amenity" costs for items that were long included the the price of a ticket. Airlines continue to cram more seats in airplanes, making seats even smaller and reducing leg room even more, while making it nearly impossible to recline one's seat without inconveniencing the passenger behind you. And on and on.
9
Airlines historically are not profitable going back to the industry's inception.
They are experiencing a blip in profit due to demand and relatively low fuel prices. More power to them. I WANT any airline I fly to be making money to finance maintenance, investment in training and new aircraft, and other safety-related costs.
I can bring my own water bottle, pillow and snack. And a paperback book.
They are experiencing a blip in profit due to demand and relatively low fuel prices. More power to them. I WANT any airline I fly to be making money to finance maintenance, investment in training and new aircraft, and other safety-related costs.
I can bring my own water bottle, pillow and snack. And a paperback book.
1
My husband and I live in Houston and so are stuck with United. They took a wonderful airline, Continental, with its terrific service and new airplanes and destroyed it. That said, we will always choose to fly the airline with the most direct route and the cheapest fare. We travel fairly often and have come to expect very little from US carriers (yes, even Southwest) so we try to be prepared. We eat well before boarding or we bring a nice meal with us on the plane. We bring empty water bottles to the airport and fill them them up at the drinking fountains. Tha way we don't have to wait around for beverage service. We bring our own pillows, Lysol wipes, sometimes even seat covers. We don't eat the airplane food (offending some of the stewards but who cares). Basically, all we ask of the airline is to get us from point A to B safely. When we have a legitimate complaint with United, we put it in writing and send in it. 99.99% of the time, United comes through and provides compensation in the form of certificates that we use on future flights. I guess my point is that it helps to be prepared, not expect much, hunker down, and not ask the airline for much. Assuming you got a decent fare, you'll be ok. De-regulation, 9/11, and then airline mergers got us to this point. Since my husband and love to travel, we just try to deal with it as best we can.
11
Since United and other airlines have introduced basic economy tickets I avoid them when ever possible. Traveling for business I have to chose the cheapest fare. On United basic economy means you can't bring carry on luggage other than a laptop or purse on board. If you attempt to bring carry on luggage, in addition to the baggage fee they charge you a gate check fee. While you receive mileage for your flight, the miles don't count toward your elite status. All this is pure misery for a frequent business traveller. You are also board with group 5, the last to board. This doesn't matter since you are forbidden from using the overhead bins for carry on luggage. I fly Jet Blue domestically whenever possible. I have over 300,000 in unused United miles. I add United miles through car rental or hotel stays so that they don't expire after 18 months. I use miles to fly first or business class only to Europe on United or one of its partners. Domestic first class on United is not worth the miles in my opinion.
6
I've been a United frequent flyer for 30 yrs and also have flown the other major domestic carriers, alive and dead, as well as many foreign carriers. I avoided American for years because of rude airport-based people, then avoided USAIr for their mendacity with delays, and finally put up with Delta when i lived in Atlanta where they were often unavoidable. With fewer carriers, there are fewer choices and fewer ways to respond. Delta is the one carrier that seems to have benefited a bit from merger--their non-union flight attendants no longer hide in the back of the plane. their airport people still trend pretty passive if not dumb. My long-term experience with United was that when they were bad, they were awful, but otherwise they were fine, even during the periods (like now) where I wasn't a premium flyer. The removal of Dr. Dao was inexcusable and the airline's unwillingness to do anything close to the right thing at any stage will hopefully provide a healthy settlement to Dr. Dao. Nonetheless, it hasn't stopped me from flying United--American remains rude and Delta is utterly stupid. My last flight on Delta involved a change of aircraft and no way to reconfigure passengers who'd been bumped from two cancelled flights plus the one with the new plane--technology should have solved that a long time ago. We have terrible choices and little recourse. The low cost competition is even worse--Southwest is fine in Texas but not elsewhere and their pricing is often no bargain.
11
"technology should have solved that a long time ago"
Even technology has its limits.
Even technology has its limits.
2
Every time I fly United, there's always a problem. Once, an uptight flight attendant threatened to throw me off a plane despite I specifically measured my bags in regulation to United's policies. I was compesnsated with a $200 travel voucher. I sent it back asking if this was a joke. They replied it wasn't a joke and thanks for the voucher. Another time I was in their woefully equipped lounges during a stop over only not notice my gate was closing in five minutes. Racing with my mom in the nick of time, I asked why there was no announcement in the lounge. They said they did which was a lie. Then there was the time they cancelled my return flight in the midwest where they wanted to fly me to San Francisco first and then back to NYC. Just one problem after another, and they don't care because they own the routes. This is why they routinely end up in the bottom three airlines in customer satisfaction. I honestly wished when they filed for bankruptcy that they had gone out of business.
23
Years ago, in a era far away, when air travel was pleasant, reasonable, and passengers well treated (and fed), United -- Fly the Friendly Skies -- had the nickname "Untied Airlines". Seems it goes back a while. And the skies are most certainly un-friendly in their hands.
2
I worked for an airline (not United) back in the "good old days". I only had an office job, but being young and single, I took advantage of pass and discounted travel all the time. While a lot about flying then was far better than it is today--if you could afford it (I wouldn't have been able to without my airline benefits)--I was in airports enough to see near riots, screaming passengers, harassed airport staff, HUGE delays with no compensation (for the paying passengers--I didn't expect anything), and lots of other problems. Our employee newspaper was often full of articles about big problems and letters from angry passengers.
And thanks to those low fares that are causing so many of today's problems, air travel in the U.S. has increased almost five fold while the population has not even doubled between 1970 and today.
And thanks to those low fares that are causing so many of today's problems, air travel in the U.S. has increased almost five fold while the population has not even doubled between 1970 and today.
5
I will never use United for any flights out of Minneapolis!
7
Well, that won't be difficult, since MSP is a Delta hub.
2
This has all just become an amazing free for all against anything airline oriented. Fine. Too many seats crammed in? So you just won't be able to buy a ticket on that flight. Fine. I just finished a filthy journey on Amtrak, and then rented a car with all sorts of fees involved. But naw, since they aren't as dramatic, they aren't worth reporting I suppose. I have never, ever, seen a series of such incredibly unfair, sensationalistic and unreasonable accusations against an industry that only gets credit for bad things. There are regrettable events in every aspect of corporate America. But this....polls, hateful tweets, and now continually searching for ANYTHING that has EVER happened on a plane in order to exacerbate current events....takes the cake. You expect to be treated like a luxury car owner when you've purchased a bicycle. So go ahead and use that for your next trip. No hidden fees. Just money for a new set of tires. Oh and by the way, I hope you don't have weather problems or mechanical problems or anything else that interrupts your journey, because you won't have anyone but yourself to blame.
6
" You expect to be treated like a luxury car owner when you've purchased a bicycle. "
No, I think people who have purchased the bicycle expect to be able to ride it to their destination without being pushed off it.
No, I think people who have purchased the bicycle expect to be able to ride it to their destination without being pushed off it.
24
People say what they need to say for their own public brand, to themselves or to others.
What they do is a different story.
United shouldn't sweat. Corporate scandal comes and goes, America's love for a low price is forever.
What they do is a different story.
United shouldn't sweat. Corporate scandal comes and goes, America's love for a low price is forever.
3
I fly Southwest. They get it about customer service.
13
When a company tells you who they are, believe them.
I will never, ever fly United again. Period. No slow fade out to anger. It's clear this company has always put itself first.
Never again.
I will never, ever fly United again. Period. No slow fade out to anger. It's clear this company has always put itself first.
Never again.
32
United vs American? Why pick the two worse airlines although, even with the bloodied Chinese doctor, American is by far the worst of the two. I don't even price hunt anymore. If I am going anywhere in the United States, it is Southwest- easy to book, easy to change, free baggage, snacks and employees who at least act like they like working there. It will be a long time before I forget the handling of that Chinese doctor who simply needed to get home. Even though it was a regional airline, the aircraft had the United Logo on it. Maybe it is time everyone plays by the same rules. Maybe it is time to revisit "customer service".
15
Of course, airline travel in general has devolved into a miserable, demeaning experience, but I think United is ahead in the race to the bottom, and their edge in this little contest is that United employees simply HATE the company. United has been systematically miserable to their employees: cut their salaries; changed their work rules; abrogated existing retirement and pension agreements; bamboozled their employees into buying lots of UAL stock and then declared bankruptcy. The net result is that especially long term employees are very, very unhappy.
As a result, when they get told to do something stupid by the boss (which happens all the time in the real world, of course), they resort to "malicious compliance" rather than saying, "uh, do you REALLY want to do that?"
Net result this week is assault and battery of a paying passenger. Who knows how far we can go? There is no limit to human creativity.
As a result, when they get told to do something stupid by the boss (which happens all the time in the real world, of course), they resort to "malicious compliance" rather than saying, "uh, do you REALLY want to do that?"
Net result this week is assault and battery of a paying passenger. Who knows how far we can go? There is no limit to human creativity.
31
United is typical of contemporary corporate mentality towards employees. Salaried help are noisome burdens on the profit margin, only to be tolerated within the framework of functional necessity. Human resources do their best to whip up ideas to encourage high turnover and guaranteed burn-out so no one acquires -- gasp-- superfluous seniority which will make the employees demanding and complacent.
8
I had a good United flight to Bozeman in March and one to Columbus later on. So I see no problem flying United. The latest story doesn't make the flights that I have had with United retroactively bad. I am more upset with the way deregulation has turned out. We're all splitting hairs on airline service (See Vox for a good article on this topic).
We customers want to pay the least for flights, according to the Vox article, so I am skeptical of the survey mentioned here that has flyers opting for higher prices.
We customers want to pay the least for flights, according to the Vox article, so I am skeptical of the survey mentioned here that has flyers opting for higher prices.
5
While it's fine in this case to study and learn from the awful mistakes made by United, it's important not to lose sight of the fact that all the domestic carriers are awful. Anyone who has experienced airlines in most other countries realizes that the system in the US is insanely outdated and awful.
To boycott United here is ignoring the real elephant in the room. This is a broken industry that is ripe for innovation. In the US we pay significantly more money for significantly worse service. Maybe this latest United disaster can motivate a more significant change to this system that manages to stifle innovation and consumer choice?
To boycott United here is ignoring the real elephant in the room. This is a broken industry that is ripe for innovation. In the US we pay significantly more money for significantly worse service. Maybe this latest United disaster can motivate a more significant change to this system that manages to stifle innovation and consumer choice?
11
That's all nice, but what if you live in Houston, where United has a 75% market share* at Bush Intercontinental? Or Denver, where the share is 41% but there's no secondary/reliever airport. **
If we say we want to fix what's wrong with domestic airline travel, breaking up the Reagan-era fortress hubs is the place to start.
* 15.6 million passengers enplaned, out of 20.8 million total
http://newsroom.united.com/airport-fact-sheets?item=29970
https://d14ik00wldmhq.cloudfront.net/media/filer_public/6b/3e/6b3e7e00-3...
** 11.6 million enplanements, out of 28 million
http://newsroom.united.com/airport-fact-sheets?item=29973
https://www.flydenver.com/sites/default/files/downloads/Dec%202016%20Man...
If we say we want to fix what's wrong with domestic airline travel, breaking up the Reagan-era fortress hubs is the place to start.
* 15.6 million passengers enplaned, out of 20.8 million total
http://newsroom.united.com/airport-fact-sheets?item=29970
https://d14ik00wldmhq.cloudfront.net/media/filer_public/6b/3e/6b3e7e00-3...
** 11.6 million enplanements, out of 28 million
http://newsroom.united.com/airport-fact-sheets?item=29973
https://www.flydenver.com/sites/default/files/downloads/Dec%202016%20Man...
3
I have well over a million miles on United and don't have any issues with them. They have learned valuable lessons. 1) Don't board when overbooked. 2) use $$$ to buy people off. (I once got $1,000 and a round trip to Vegas to get off). 3) Once on the plane the Captain is in charge. He/She screwed up royally by calling the police and should be disciplined. 4) They made a major mistake by not admitting their screw up right away and asking forgiveness. Also the Police were completely out of line and should be suspended. Finally, to the passenger I have to tell you that you should never argue with the police. Get off the plane and sue them later. It's not worth it, but neither is this situation your fault. I suspect you will be handsomely compensated for your treatment. To United's 86,000 employees I would say that you must recommit yourself to being "friendly". To the CEO you should fire anyone and everyone who gave you advice as to what to say publically. As for you I say...Larry Kellner would never have been so tone deaf and you should apologize profusely to everyone. You let down 86,000 employees with your response.
6
Don't blame the Captain, or even the other flight crew. The United Gate Agent was responsible for boarding the aircraft, and he /she called in the Chicago Department of Aviation thugs, to remove a paying passenger, seated in his assigned seat. And CEO Munoz's statements notwithstanding, Dr. Dao was not "disruptive". Munoz backed down from his statement later.
The Captain only becomes legally responsible for the passengers, crew and aircraft, after the door is closed and the aircraft is in motion.
I know, I am a retired Airline Captain
The Captain only becomes legally responsible for the passengers, crew and aircraft, after the door is closed and the aircraft is in motion.
I know, I am a retired Airline Captain
9
They all stink. I'm driving.
5
I actually have somewhat worse experience with AA. One time when I am flying to CLT to LGA, even though the plane arrived above LGA, it was forced to return to CLT because of bad weather in NYC. Despite the fact that all passengers were frustrated, the flight attendant went ahead to announce, "but the good news is, you can now apply for the AA credit card with bonus 50,000 pts..." which made me angry. I know that it's their job to sell that, but please at least have some empathy. After landed at CLT, the AA personnel were not so much helpful in helping the distressed customer, and couldn't find a spot for me to fly to LGA the next morning to make the interview I needed to attend. Luckily, I found another way.
That was contrasted by another diversion over LGA 3 months after, again because of weather (snowstorm) over LGA. This time, the Southwest pilots went creative and persistent. First, instead of flying back (not an option this time, as I flied from Houston), we flied to Buffalo. Second, during refuel, the pilot submitted flight plans to return to LGA _twice_, as the first flight plan was deemed unsafe and rejected due to wind direction. The persistent of the pilots got us back to LGA at 3am, still much better than getting stranded in another city.
Southwest is not perfect (and not the cheapest anymore), but if having a chance, I would still fly Southwest. Sadly, United is indeed the cheapest.
That was contrasted by another diversion over LGA 3 months after, again because of weather (snowstorm) over LGA. This time, the Southwest pilots went creative and persistent. First, instead of flying back (not an option this time, as I flied from Houston), we flied to Buffalo. Second, during refuel, the pilot submitted flight plans to return to LGA _twice_, as the first flight plan was deemed unsafe and rejected due to wind direction. The persistent of the pilots got us back to LGA at 3am, still much better than getting stranded in another city.
Southwest is not perfect (and not the cheapest anymore), but if having a chance, I would still fly Southwest. Sadly, United is indeed the cheapest.
7
I am boycotting United.. period!
10
Not flying United again. Not flying United again. Not flying United again. Repeat.
17
This reminds me when we swore never to fly Pan Am and TWA. Look at them now. I rather take a bus to Mexico City (7hours) and pick up a flight from Mexico City than fly direct on United to Houston from Oaxaca , Mexico. I felt that way before the Dr. was dragged off the flight. This incident reinforces how I feel about this airline.
4
Sad to say, I've done everything I can to avoid United for years. The reason is that United runs the worst customer-class system of any airline I know. If you are one of their uber-unobtainium-whizzbang-preferred customers it is probably a nice airline. But if you aren't, then fuggedaboutit.
12
Now is exactly the time to be flying United as they will be extremely careful to change the public's opinion of them. I have never had a problem with United and I also think the doctor made things worse by refusing to get up and walk out on his own. I'm not sure I would sacrifice my teeth and head to make that point. Also, it was a hub airline that made the call. So while I don't think United should be off the hook for this, I do think angry people are rushing to be mad without taking all things into consideration.
4
People love to complain about things they know little about, whether airlines, doctors or the law. Yes, a lot of times these providers screw things up but often it's the rules/law or getting what you paid for, the latter being what Americans demanded and got.
Look at service things like meals or blankets in coach, or even no charge for a checked bag, which used to be provided. Survey after server should people saying they didn't want to pay for things they didn't use - I always bring a carryon, I don't need a blanket, the food sucks so I don't need it, etc. Then comes flight time and all of a sudden, hey, wait a minute, what do you mean I have to pay for this bag? I'm cold (in my shorts and tank top) what do you mean you don't have any blankets? Pay for food, are you kidding?
Uh huh.
Look at service things like meals or blankets in coach, or even no charge for a checked bag, which used to be provided. Survey after server should people saying they didn't want to pay for things they didn't use - I always bring a carryon, I don't need a blanket, the food sucks so I don't need it, etc. Then comes flight time and all of a sudden, hey, wait a minute, what do you mean I have to pay for this bag? I'm cold (in my shorts and tank top) what do you mean you don't have any blankets? Pay for food, are you kidding?
Uh huh.
7
When I flew long distance with United i felt sorry i hadn't brought my own pic nic...
6
Flight personnel having to appear 60 min prior is just marketing hype. You will still be bumped off your flight, even if it is now at the gate rather than on the plane. The airlines know one thing, where their own personnel were at, home or some other airport, when they need to fly to get to their plane. So how hard is it to block seat sales for them IN ADVANCE and save all this grief for their clients. The airline President is obviously still not thinking about his CUSTOMERS !
5
Sometimes things happen on short notice especially at a smaller airport that doesn't have reserve standby crew available. Say, for example a pilot or flight attendant suddenly gets sick and one needs to be flown in from elsewhere. You need at least two pilots and the FAA sets a legal minimum for the number of flight attendants each plane needs...you can't even board passengers if you're short. So either they take a seat or another flight down the road gets cancelled...inconvenience one person or 150. Not always an easy call
5
@George. This wasn't a case of one crew member getting ill. United bumped four boarded passengers to accommodate the entire flight crew for a flight out of Louisville the following morning.
7
I too strongly dislike United and do all I can to avoid them. But remember when United went through their bankruptcy, everybody lost their seniority and their pension funds disappeared. The cabin staff at United always seemed very angry.
Expedia rates specific airlines and flights and it is very revealing. When flying out of NYC years ago, we of the flying community always called US Airways - Useless Airways and when they changed their name to Allegheny - we shortened it to Agony.
When the DOT opened the pricing to competitive pricing years ago, airplanes turned into buses as air travel became very cheap. At the time I worked for a Dow 30 company and air travel was always first class and on company Gulfstream jets. When TSA happened, flying was then a drudge and continues to be.
The looser airlines continue to be loosers - remember to use Expedia to check out their performance but by buying directly from the airline's web site U can save a few bucks and also ditto for hotels and motels if U are paying.
Expedia rates specific airlines and flights and it is very revealing. When flying out of NYC years ago, we of the flying community always called US Airways - Useless Airways and when they changed their name to Allegheny - we shortened it to Agony.
When the DOT opened the pricing to competitive pricing years ago, airplanes turned into buses as air travel became very cheap. At the time I worked for a Dow 30 company and air travel was always first class and on company Gulfstream jets. When TSA happened, flying was then a drudge and continues to be.
The looser airlines continue to be loosers - remember to use Expedia to check out their performance but by buying directly from the airline's web site U can save a few bucks and also ditto for hotels and motels if U are paying.
6
I laughed in recognition at Butch Burton's post, as I remember Allegheny all too well. We called it All Pain-y.
3
What utter rot. Really amazing that NYT would publish something like this.
Respondents are a lot different than real consumers, who will go with their pocketbook every single time. I speak from experience. I had a nightmare experience with United many years ago (I won't give details, but suffice to say, I, and an entire planeload of fellow passengers, arrived in Seattle 36 hours late from NYC) and swore on my mother's grave that I would never fly United again, no matter what. Guess what? When you're looking through Kayak for options and UAL is several hundred dollars cheaper and more convenient than the runner up, you're gonna pick United. Every. Single. Time. I know I have, despite my prior experience with UAL, which treated me and other passengers like camel dung.
This piece utterly ignores what airline transportation has become. If you're rich and you can afford to make choices, that's one thing, but, if you're like most people, you go with what's cheapest and fits best with your travel schedule. It's a byproduct of airline deregulation which, on the whole, has been a good thing in that it forced prices down to the point where most everyone can now afford to fly.
Of course, what UAL did in Chicago was inexcusable, but anyone who thinks the airline is going to pay a price long-term doesn't understand the airline industry or basic economics. I expect NYT to hire writers, and editors, who understand the airline industry and basic economics.
Respondents are a lot different than real consumers, who will go with their pocketbook every single time. I speak from experience. I had a nightmare experience with United many years ago (I won't give details, but suffice to say, I, and an entire planeload of fellow passengers, arrived in Seattle 36 hours late from NYC) and swore on my mother's grave that I would never fly United again, no matter what. Guess what? When you're looking through Kayak for options and UAL is several hundred dollars cheaper and more convenient than the runner up, you're gonna pick United. Every. Single. Time. I know I have, despite my prior experience with UAL, which treated me and other passengers like camel dung.
This piece utterly ignores what airline transportation has become. If you're rich and you can afford to make choices, that's one thing, but, if you're like most people, you go with what's cheapest and fits best with your travel schedule. It's a byproduct of airline deregulation which, on the whole, has been a good thing in that it forced prices down to the point where most everyone can now afford to fly.
Of course, what UAL did in Chicago was inexcusable, but anyone who thinks the airline is going to pay a price long-term doesn't understand the airline industry or basic economics. I expect NYT to hire writers, and editors, who understand the airline industry and basic economics.
4
You are right, when and if people are poor and have no other choice they ll pick up the cheapest flight but the others won't. I doubt that middle class people not to mention upper middle class passengers who can afford to make a financial effort to avoid United will fly with them ,in my opinion.Why would you pick up the cheapest option if you can afford to pay for more and be better treated?
4
Caroline,
What's your definition of "middle class?" I consider myself middle class. Paying several hundred dollars to get from Point A to Point B is not something I take lightly, nor will I pay anything more than the cheapest fare, all things being equal. If it's the same price and comparable schedule, yeah, I'll go with Alaska or Delta or some other carrier that I've had better luck with than United (and I've had horrid experiences with that airline). But will I pay $100, or even $75 more, to avoid United? No way, and I suspect most middle class folks such as myself feel the same.
End of day, doesn't much matter which carrier you pick. If you're not flying first class, you're gonna get crammed into a too-small space and just have to deal with it for a few hours. There are worse things in life. Consider the good old days, back before deregulation, when they allowed smoking on planes.
What's your definition of "middle class?" I consider myself middle class. Paying several hundred dollars to get from Point A to Point B is not something I take lightly, nor will I pay anything more than the cheapest fare, all things being equal. If it's the same price and comparable schedule, yeah, I'll go with Alaska or Delta or some other carrier that I've had better luck with than United (and I've had horrid experiences with that airline). But will I pay $100, or even $75 more, to avoid United? No way, and I suspect most middle class folks such as myself feel the same.
End of day, doesn't much matter which carrier you pick. If you're not flying first class, you're gonna get crammed into a too-small space and just have to deal with it for a few hours. There are worse things in life. Consider the good old days, back before deregulation, when they allowed smoking on planes.
2
Corporate malicious incompetence is terrifying on its own, but even more so with the Real (ID) big ticking time bomb still waiting to blow.[1] The requirement that everyone uses a passport that meets Real ID requirements (such as creepy RFID trackers) will combine with horrid prices, customer treatment, and the Pre-Check racket to destroy airliners as a reasonable means of travel.
https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/news/real-id-not-needed-fo...
We must elect a Democrat to every Congress seat up in 2018, each with enough spine to repeal and defuse that hideous security theater in the making. If they actually *prefer* that scheme to remain, well, then that's what the primaries are for.
[1] NO, I will NOT shy away from that metaphor with air travel. Bad corporations and bad law scare me far more than any religious madman chemist, or any amateur steamroller in a used truck.
https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/news/real-id-not-needed-fo...
We must elect a Democrat to every Congress seat up in 2018, each with enough spine to repeal and defuse that hideous security theater in the making. If they actually *prefer* that scheme to remain, well, then that's what the primaries are for.
[1] NO, I will NOT shy away from that metaphor with air travel. Bad corporations and bad law scare me far more than any religious madman chemist, or any amateur steamroller in a used truck.
2
I often have the choice to fly American vs. United, and I always choose American. Fortunately I can afford to do so. Not that this is high praise for American (all of our carriers are less than ideal), but United is the worst. Poor service is bad enough. Lies and rudeness add insult to the process. And this goes all the way to the top in my experience, b/c I've complained in writing to their CEO. You'd think that whoever is responding could be polite to a premium class flyer with thousands of miles who took the trouble to write a polite complaint about service with dates, time and individuals to the CEO via regular mail. Since then, my mega miles have gone to American, even when it's less convenient and more expensive.
14
Based on the number of untoward incidents recently, United has given its employees gestapo like powers. Whether this is to compensate them for low w ages and poor working environment I don't know but it is telling that United's CEO's first reaction after dragging a doctor off a flight was to congratulate his employees.
Friendly courteous service is usually the result of corporate policy and training that starts with treating the staff well - one can only imagine the corporate culture that results in kicking a small child off flight for wearing leggings or a couple on the way to their wedding for changing seats.
Friendly courteous service is usually the result of corporate policy and training that starts with treating the staff well - one can only imagine the corporate culture that results in kicking a small child off flight for wearing leggings or a couple on the way to their wedding for changing seats.
24
Would I fly United, again? No, of course not unless they changed the policy of bumping people off their airplanes and make their skies friendly, again. I believe strongly that the most effective political weapons are boycott and strike, and I would not go against those beliefs even if I had to pay more or be inconvenienced by another airline, though I will avoid those who have the policy of bumping passengers.
This is an insane policy that has to change. It is a perfect example of capitalism-run-amok! If this means I will lose out on some vacations, it is worth it to me to make the political statement: the only power I have in a situation in which I would otherwise feel powerless.
This is an insane policy that has to change. It is a perfect example of capitalism-run-amok! If this means I will lose out on some vacations, it is worth it to me to make the political statement: the only power I have in a situation in which I would otherwise feel powerless.
20
There is an undercurrent of threat and violence in all US airports that goes beyond the vigilance required to avert terrorism. I think this incidence tears the veil of the current climate that pervades our airports. The Chicago officers who attacked the passenger were demonstrating how easily this can get out of control. The airport security system working with the airlines have created an 'us v. them' environment - the traveling public is treated with contempt.
In our 70's, we are have been pulled aside for full body searches - we joke that my husband never makes it through security without being stopped. At the Boulder Colorado airport the security staff were extremely rude to us and appeared to suffer from barely suppressed rage. It is frightening - a culture of fear is being cultivated to keep people in line.
We can be serious about security without hiring bullies and incompetents with little training to deal with millions of travelers.
In our 70's, we are have been pulled aside for full body searches - we joke that my husband never makes it through security without being stopped. At the Boulder Colorado airport the security staff were extremely rude to us and appeared to suffer from barely suppressed rage. It is frightening - a culture of fear is being cultivated to keep people in line.
We can be serious about security without hiring bullies and incompetents with little training to deal with millions of travelers.
27
Wait until the entire American tourist industry craters when citizens will no longer wish to travel, without speaking of the foreigners disgusted with the Trump regime's policies towards travellers of certain nationalities and creeds.
6
It's not just the poor folks in economy, either. United booted at least one first class passenger from his seat in order to make room for a late arriving VIP.
We need re-regulation. The airlines argue that flying is cheaper now, but when you compare the actual product sold under regulation with the travesty sold today, it is clear that flying is not cheaper now. I'm not even talking about the deceptive fares, the add-on fees, and the dangerously crowded seats. Under regulation, flights were more likely to leave on time, flight times were significantly shorter, and many more cities were served. Now, due to a combination of hub and spoke, flight delays due to overscheduling, and reduced airline service to smaller cities, passengers spend a lot more time getting to their destinations. That time costs money, and it doesn't matter whether you are a business traveler or part of a family desperate to make the most of precious vacation time.
We need re-regulation. The airlines argue that flying is cheaper now, but when you compare the actual product sold under regulation with the travesty sold today, it is clear that flying is not cheaper now. I'm not even talking about the deceptive fares, the add-on fees, and the dangerously crowded seats. Under regulation, flights were more likely to leave on time, flight times were significantly shorter, and many more cities were served. Now, due to a combination of hub and spoke, flight delays due to overscheduling, and reduced airline service to smaller cities, passengers spend a lot more time getting to their destinations. That time costs money, and it doesn't matter whether you are a business traveler or part of a family desperate to make the most of precious vacation time.
11
Exactly! The only way we are going to fix aviation is to re-regulate it. Perhaps not to the 1960's extent but there needs to be a lot more control than the free-for-all we have today. IMHO the first step is to extend taxes not to just the base fare as it is now but to all add-ons like baggage fees, upgrade fees, rebooking fees and perhaps even meals. Because tax avoidance is a big driver in the push to unbundle everything.
3
United, Delta, whatever...it's the same all throughout the US airline industry. Only this time it was United's turn to be highlighted.
We need alternatives - high speed train, for instance. Even normal train service (as in Canada or Europe) would be preferable. But in the US, this is prevented by law. Single freight trains can claim right of way over Amtrak passenger trains for up to eight hours.
Air travelers suffer because of the common interests of government-subsidized airline and train companies. Airlines gift from us was deregulation in the 1980's. Train company's gift is government giveaways ever since the 1880's, ironically through corrupt regulation.
We need alternatives - high speed train, for instance. Even normal train service (as in Canada or Europe) would be preferable. But in the US, this is prevented by law. Single freight trains can claim right of way over Amtrak passenger trains for up to eight hours.
Air travelers suffer because of the common interests of government-subsidized airline and train companies. Airlines gift from us was deregulation in the 1980's. Train company's gift is government giveaways ever since the 1880's, ironically through corrupt regulation.
6
I love trains but the reality is people are not going to take a one or two day trip (even high speed rail can't match a jet) when they can fly across the country in a few hours.
2
We need alternatives: Indeed. how come consumers in the US do not have other options in some places than fly with horrid United or AA ?How come there are no excellent foreign carriers like Emirates or Singapore Airlines etc in many places across the US so that American carriers have proper competitors ? The lack of competition in the US skies killed any concept of customer service,to the detriment of US consumers & customers.
3
The only way that I would stop flying United (or any other airline) is if they were to adopt a policy of allowing customers to no longer follow orders from the flight crew.
The only real option is for the airlines to adopt a policy of never touching a passenger (unless placed under arrest), and to cancel the flight when a passenger refuses to follow orders.
Of course that will then lead to twitter storms about canceled flights. I don't think any company can come out looking good after a twitter storm.
The only real option is for the airlines to adopt a policy of never touching a passenger (unless placed under arrest), and to cancel the flight when a passenger refuses to follow orders.
Of course that will then lead to twitter storms about canceled flights. I don't think any company can come out looking good after a twitter storm.
3
You do realize that FAA regulations mandate passenger compliance with crew member instructions?
4
It's 298 miles from Chicago to Louisville. That's about 4.5 hours in the car, according to Google Maps, which is probably understating the true travel time.
My car gets 40 mpg at highway speeds. At the current price, that's $24.38 in fuel. Given the time required at large airports to check in, get through security, wait for the inevitable delays, and sometimes deal with atrocious customer service, the amount of time saved by flying is probably about 2 hours.
Based on the prices used in the study in this article, I'd rather take the car and save $180 (pay myself $90/hour) to avoid possibly getting beat up by airport security. Besides, driving gives me enough time to enjoy a good audio-book and see Indianapolis on the way through.
My car gets 40 mpg at highway speeds. At the current price, that's $24.38 in fuel. Given the time required at large airports to check in, get through security, wait for the inevitable delays, and sometimes deal with atrocious customer service, the amount of time saved by flying is probably about 2 hours.
Based on the prices used in the study in this article, I'd rather take the car and save $180 (pay myself $90/hour) to avoid possibly getting beat up by airport security. Besides, driving gives me enough time to enjoy a good audio-book and see Indianapolis on the way through.
40
LGA = LaGuardia airport (NYC)
1
I hate flying period. I hate what going to the airport has become in America. I hate sitting in seats that leave me no room to stretch. I hate being nickeled and dimed because the airline wants to make as much money off of me as possible while spending as little as possible on a clean seat, a clean plane, and a comfortable flight. Of course I'm one of the unlucky ones who remembers when flying was, if not always a pleasure, at least not like being tortured. It was, once upon a time, the start of a vacation rather than the torture preceding a vacation.
102
Contrary to the writer's assertion, outrage does not always fade quickly. Rude employees and bad service long ago alienated me from United Airlines. I'm one of the people who would pay more and ammend my travel plans to avoid United. This incident only reinforces my desire to continue to do so.
42
But-- but -- how will you do it? United is part of an oligopoly,reminiscent of Aeroflot during the Soviet era.
3
Prior to the horrific de-planning at United, My partner & I long ago decided not to fly United because of service issues, scary food (even on international flights), and being twice re-boarded because of mechanical repairs, like faulty air conditioning.
27
The only language that seems to matter in this society is the all mighty dollar. Take your business somewhere else. I certainly will. Consumers should lobby to minimize the greedy habit of overbooking flights in order to maximize profits. Enough is enough.
I intend never to fly united.
I intend never to fly united.
34
In a few days this will be forgotten and consumers will fly with whoever gives them the best price, from the departing airport. The flying experience is so bad brand loyalty is non existent. Road warriors of course thrive on status and points.
19
Our family has previously suffered a disasterous vacation due to 3-4 problems caused by United Airlines.
It would take a direct flight, and sitting in the co-pilot's seat, to lure us into their spider web or rudeness.
It would take a direct flight, and sitting in the co-pilot's seat, to lure us into their spider web or rudeness.
52
Sure in the US many people are stuck but elsewhere in the world(Europe, Asia and especially China) ,i would not bet United won't loose big business if there is the slightest doubt that Asian customers are badly treated for just being Asians .We ll see.
2
I would guess most of the issue is flying out of the small airport near Steamboat Springs. It's bad. Is there any ATC at the tower there yet? I'll drive 4 hours from Denver, in winter, to avoid that airport. Good luck!
1
Simple
I won't fly United, period. I wish that enough people will agree and they will go out of business and the pieces bought at fire sale prices and the corporation will simply cease to exist. Of course since air travel is in fact an unregulated illegal cartel with monopoly pricing power and air travelers are at their mercy there will be no change.
What is happening is that large sectors of the US economy are no longer part of a free market with competition and monopolists are able to make unlimited unregulated political contributions to keep and extend their power. Wealthy families and individuals secretly and not so secretly control the US government through 'legal' but corrupt political contributions.
The United scandal is just an instance of the ongoing trend towards increasing consolidation of wealth in an overt upper class aristocracy of the ultra rich and we are very close irretrievably passing the point where democracy is merely a fig leaf concealing fake elections that have no real effect.
I won't fly United, period. I wish that enough people will agree and they will go out of business and the pieces bought at fire sale prices and the corporation will simply cease to exist. Of course since air travel is in fact an unregulated illegal cartel with monopoly pricing power and air travelers are at their mercy there will be no change.
What is happening is that large sectors of the US economy are no longer part of a free market with competition and monopolists are able to make unlimited unregulated political contributions to keep and extend their power. Wealthy families and individuals secretly and not so secretly control the US government through 'legal' but corrupt political contributions.
The United scandal is just an instance of the ongoing trend towards increasing consolidation of wealth in an overt upper class aristocracy of the ultra rich and we are very close irretrievably passing the point where democracy is merely a fig leaf concealing fake elections that have no real effect.
92
86,000 people out of work is what you want? That can't be right...
1
And the very very wealthy who like this and make money off it don't ever have to fly United or any other airline they have ruined (remember TWA? Pan AM?), because they fly private jets.
1
The flight that the doctor was pulled off of was a United Express flight, which is owned by Republic Airways, so United employees were not involved. Unfortunately, the aircraft has "United" on it, so United bore the brunt of the criticism. The combination of a foolish policy in yanking a paying passenger off a plane and the violent treatment of him now tarnishes all United employees, and that is really unfortunate for them. I feel for the flying public and airline employees too, because flying today is an awful ordeal for everyone.
31
In a different article it was stated that the gate agent who called airport security to remove Dr. Dao was a United employee. After years of air travel incidents, I avoid United at all times. I
9
Conner, in Oregon, why is your comment the ONLY place I've seen this "not a United Flight" information? United's spokespersons had every opportunity to correct the press and did not, apparently accepting responsibility (finally) and vowing to reform. Is this "not a United flight" some sort of alternative fact?
2
No one forced United to co-brand that service. That was a business decision. Your beef is with the C-suite types who made it. And the board members who went along with it.
4
I completely agree with the flyers who say this has been a United problem for years, but now it seems to be infecting other airlines as well. As a business traveller, I qualified for high mileage status on several major airlines and often had a full-fare first class ticket. United's service was still horrible; the flight attendants seemed to compete for who could be the rudest and least helpful--even if you had paid for a full-fare first class seat. Even if the end result was the same, if there was a nice way to do something, and a rude nasty way, United employees chose the nasty way. About 20 years ago I stopped choosing United, no matter what their price or schedule, even if it meant taking a connecting flight instead of a nonstop. The occasional times I was forced to use United while flying with a senior colleague only confirmed my decision. I had hoped that Bethune would bring his turnaround magic and customer service ethos to United but sadly United seems to have infected the former Continental and every other airline. It is a race to the bottom, but that is one race United can win!
61
What is not being discussed in the media is that when one buys an airline ticket one contracts for a seat on a particular flight. Why should this purchase be different than any other? Taking away the customer's seat on that flight should only be allowed if the customer is willing to sell it back to the airline. That the airlines have lobbied for a regulation that denies the airline's contractual obligation to honor the customer's right does not abrogate it.
Joseph in Missoula
Joseph in Missoula
106
Good point! Isn't there a US Constitutional provision that prohibits governmental interference with contracts?
1
I also deeply resent that prices change constantly. Where else does this occur? Not on Amtrak or bus services or commuter rail. It is the first abuse that enables all the rest.
Sure, sure...reality has shown time and again that for most passengers when it comes time to buy a ticket down the road they will click on the lowest fare. Period. Oh they'll perhaps complain and moan about things they knew before hand (bag fees, tight seats, rude service, etc.) but still come back to the trough for more. You will often see this in airline review sites where people will lament a horrible flight but end with words to the effect of "but I'd fly them again if they were the cheapest".
8
There are so many factors involved in picking a flight. The carrier is often an afterthought. The time schedule and total duration of flight are big ones; and cost, of course. And there is also the question of which airport it flies into. If using miles, then these are usually even more of an issue. And internationally, United often has the best-situated partners for the places I want to go and are more pleasant airlines to fly on. Sorry, but in the end it is convenience and cost that win out. If costs are the same, then schedule and duration of flight/non-stops become paramount. I'm not going to take a 6am out of JFK with 2 stops to punish United, even with a great fare.
10
Are these the same people who said they weren't going to vote for Trump or remained silent then did?
6
Now try a poll that asks if you had a choice would you like to fly at all on any airline.
7
Did United drag him off the plane or was it TSA?
1
Chicago PD
3
airline employees
1
Airport police, at United's behest.
7
I shall boycott United Airlines because i can ,indeed from Paris,France to the US, we have plenty of options and for me ,if i wish to choose a US carrier, the only one worth taking is Delta because United Airlines has the worst food onboard not to mention its terrible manners to customers and American Airlines the worst service( no proper individual screens , limited choice of films etc).
4
On any airline if you have the cheapest seat you will get the worst treatment. What happened to that man would have never happened to anyone in first class. You either pay up or put up with it.
3
I fly out of Burlington, VT, served by United (among others). While waiting 2 hours for a friend to arrive, I asked a United ticket agent when was the last time a United flight arrived on time. Her reply; "I've worked here 5 years and I can't remember one."
11
I wont fly United unless it is impossible not to or the difference is astronomical. I cut up my Chase/United credit card and mailed it to Mr Munoz. For gosh sakes, this man is 67 years old. Three goons break his nose, etc. What is this-a third world dictatorship? There is NO excuse for this to have happened. None-nada...
29
So you can be bought, if the fare or timing is right. This whole protest movement is hollow enough to fly a 747 through.
2
Baloney.
We American lemmings will go right back once they offer cheap fares
We lazy Americans like to talk big but are weak. Take China, all the bluster about China taking American jobs. But what does America do? They keep shopping at Walmart. Do they even bother to look at where this stuff is made? Weak and dumb.
We American lemmings will go right back once they offer cheap fares
We lazy Americans like to talk big but are weak. Take China, all the bluster about China taking American jobs. But what does America do? They keep shopping at Walmart. Do they even bother to look at where this stuff is made? Weak and dumb.
15
Sadly noticing, that all the good, polite airlines like Swiss and Austrian
have been driven out of the market to leave us with what we've got now...
for international flights. Still we had good experiences with Lufthansa.
One is subjected to so much unpleasantness with air-travel these days, that
in spite of great invitations and wonderful temptations my zest for air-travel is gone. Of course all the radiation and other indignities due to security-checks
more than add to making it a quite undesirable experience. But to treat anyone as Dr.Dao had been is beyond the pall -more so considering his age.
Further to publish his past added insult to injury like doubling the assault.
All this should NEVER be aloud to happen in civilized society.
have been driven out of the market to leave us with what we've got now...
for international flights. Still we had good experiences with Lufthansa.
One is subjected to so much unpleasantness with air-travel these days, that
in spite of great invitations and wonderful temptations my zest for air-travel is gone. Of course all the radiation and other indignities due to security-checks
more than add to making it a quite undesirable experience. But to treat anyone as Dr.Dao had been is beyond the pall -more so considering his age.
Further to publish his past added insult to injury like doubling the assault.
All this should NEVER be aloud to happen in civilized society.
13
Interesting thought: how much are abusing be airlines hurting tourism? I am seriously considering sitting out international air travel altogether and choosing other forms of continental transportation. Enough is enough.
1
I agree that United has been the worst US carrier since the demise of US Airways. But it's a marginal difference; the others are only slightly better. Everyone seems to agree that foreign carriers are superior. Isn't it interesting that airlines founded or owned by governments do a better job? So much for the private sector...
What I don't agree with is the complaint that seats are getting smaller. The width of a 737 cabin is exactly the same on every airline, and they're always 6 across in economy. There's variation in the legroom, but the seat itself is exactly the same size.
What I don't agree with is the complaint that seats are getting smaller. The width of a 737 cabin is exactly the same on every airline, and they're always 6 across in economy. There's variation in the legroom, but the seat itself is exactly the same size.
6
Spoken like a short person. Space has 3 dimensions. Width is only one of them.
7
Should've picked a hypothetical airline, not a real one. I'm sure that there were some participants (such as myself) whose choices were also influenced by the fact that they have had negative experiences on American Airlines.
5
I've avoided United since they refused to provide me with a wheelchair to navigate the endless trek through Houston airport after a long flight from Buenos Aires, claiming I hadn't requested a wheelchair in advance. After I filed a claim, United admitted that I had advised them about my disability and need for a wheelchair through their website reservation system, but the information got "lost." They offered no compensation of any kind and instead hired an obnoxious lawyer who claimed that "accidents" were not compensable. Why would anyone want to travel with an airline like that under any circumstances?
175
Not only the action against Dr. Dao was unwarranted and egregious (did the crew stand by while the other passengers were horrified about the violence?), but also what is troubling is the botched, inadequate response by the airline's leadership. What was Mr. Munoz thinking (if he was)? That adding insult to injury was going to exculpate their behavior?
Indeed, his initial communications are insulting to all airline passengers.
Indeed, his initial communications are insulting to all airline passengers.
71
This is just the latest in egregious, mercenary behavior by what used to be a "friendly" transportation system. To make my point I suggest everyone look at pictures of crowded animals being processed for slaughter and then compare those pictures to human beings in an airport or compressed into seats spaced so close together they can hardly move.
19
And they prod and probe you in line.
Exactly the same.
Exactly the same.
5
My husband and I learned years ago NOT to fly United. From Chicago (United home base) check in is confusing if impossible. Aboard service is rude rude rude. We are older but were told that we would have to stow our hand luggage in the overhead bins ourselves because it was not the responsibility of the young steward.. Since our disgusting experiences with the haughty, indifferent and unhelpful United employees we have never flown with them again and never will. They are mean and surly in the air and on the ground. We were not surprised by the brutality last week.
177
I have had the same experiences with United and also made the decision to fly another airlines whenever possible. The United employees were among the rudest employees of ANY type of company that I have ever dealt with.
74
CD-R,
I am glad that you and your husband can afford to not fly UAL. I've had my own nightmare experience with UAL, to the point I swore I would never again fly UAL. But I have. Why? Because when I need to go somewhere and my budget is limited and UAL has flights that I can afford that are scheduled to depart and arrive when I need, I grit my teeth and pull the trigger. If there's another choice, I do that, but most often, there isn't another choice. That's the way it works when it comes to airline travel for most folks.
Again, it is good that you can afford to be picky. I don't have that luxury, nor do most folks who fly.
I am glad that you and your husband can afford to not fly UAL. I've had my own nightmare experience with UAL, to the point I swore I would never again fly UAL. But I have. Why? Because when I need to go somewhere and my budget is limited and UAL has flights that I can afford that are scheduled to depart and arrive when I need, I grit my teeth and pull the trigger. If there's another choice, I do that, but most often, there isn't another choice. That's the way it works when it comes to airline travel for most folks.
Again, it is good that you can afford to be picky. I don't have that luxury, nor do most folks who fly.
4
Haughty, indifferent, unhelpful and rude crew just about sums it up for me. After watching a flight attendant offer a man a second cup of coffee, fail to deliver, and when he reminded her gently, she snipped at him with, "Sir, patience is a virtue," I knew i'd never fly United again.
The entire flight had been awful, and that capped it. I've never flown since and that was nearly 20 years ago. It seems indicative of the company's entire culture.
The entire flight had been awful, and that capped it. I've never flown since and that was nearly 20 years ago. It seems indicative of the company's entire culture.
3
What makes people think that airlines are any different? As someone who has flown a considerable amount on business trips, I know it is always an inconvenience, fraught with delays and too frequent cancellations for a number of reasons. Cutbacks on TSA staff have made security checks arduous, often requiring arrival at airports well over an hour before scheduled takeoff. Flight staff are in short supply, with little or no backup. That is the reason four United employees needed to get to Chicago. The airline industry is just one more area where government cutbacks and lack or appropriate regulations have made the life of ordinary Americans more difficult. I avoid flying whenever I can, preferring to drive considerable distances to do so.
49
Wow, you seem to have enjoyed quite a luxury of time in the past, if you are complaining about arriving more than an hour before your flight. Since 2001, it has been standard at my airport to recommend at least an hour and a half for domestic flights, and more for international.
But I agree with your comment on the short supply of flight staff. Recently my flight was delayed several hours while we waited for people to be flown in from somewhere else. I wondered then -- and still do -- why they didn't know they were going to need these people earlier? One of the passengers was an off-duty flight attendant, who actually helped out with passenger processing as a volunteer while the new crew was arriving, to help us get aloft more quickly. That's pathetic. (But a wonderful volunteer effort.)
But I agree with your comment on the short supply of flight staff. Recently my flight was delayed several hours while we waited for people to be flown in from somewhere else. I wondered then -- and still do -- why they didn't know they were going to need these people earlier? One of the passengers was an off-duty flight attendant, who actually helped out with passenger processing as a volunteer while the new crew was arriving, to help us get aloft more quickly. That's pathetic. (But a wonderful volunteer effort.)
2
Easy to say but not easy to do. United, for example, flies to about 200 cities worldwide. It would be impossible to have crew members (pilots and flight attendants) stationed at every single destination (some with only one flight a day) in order to address things like illness. The hubs, of course, do have stand by crews, but no system could accommodate having spare employees at every location.
5
One theme you will notice in these comments is the description of United employees as "rude", and people are making that determination in comparison to the behavior of other airlines. Does the government make people "rude"?
Please, no more blaming the "government" for this one. Other airlines manage under the same circumstances without rude, highhanded and obnoxious behavior. The United employees involved in this incident decided it was easier for them to call in security and likely lie and claim the passenger was "out of control" than to do their job and negotiate to get one more passenger off the plane. It probably counts against their performance if they offered more money to get a volunteer. This situation is not on the government, it is on United's terrible culture AND on the incentives given to employees (don't pay more than X for volunteers).
Please, no more blaming the "government" for this one. Other airlines manage under the same circumstances without rude, highhanded and obnoxious behavior. The United employees involved in this incident decided it was easier for them to call in security and likely lie and claim the passenger was "out of control" than to do their job and negotiate to get one more passenger off the plane. It probably counts against their performance if they offered more money to get a volunteer. This situation is not on the government, it is on United's terrible culture AND on the incentives given to employees (don't pay more than X for volunteers).
6
I am a million miler on United and have flown more than 3/4 of those miles in coach (premier economy). I am sticking with United because flying on a carrier where I have NO status is like being in steerage class on the Titanic. My loyalty is weirdly based on being able to upgrade to business on occasion, having priority boarding (since I only take carry-on even on 10 day trips to Asia), and a choice of seats.
The way the doctor was treated in the recent video does not surprise me. I have believed for years that United employees exhibit racist attitudes against its Asian customers, and have heard extremely demeaning comments by the staff to people in coach (sometimes saying things to customers in a manner that implies they believe the Asian customer doesn't understand them anyway. Ugh at so many levels).
Business class seems to be a different story, so it does appear to be "class" oriented as well. Some of this attitude from the staff seems to be based on poor management from the top (Jeff Smisak seemed to create a lot of resentment; those were tough years for us consumers of United).It seems that cuts in salary, flights, and status, mean the oldest staff members fly those Asian routes. I have flown 57 times to Asia on United in 8 years and the stewards are, in general, mean-spirited and grumpy.
I hate to write such a negative comment but others here have it right: carriers outside of the US seem to be doing something right. Not sure what the answer is.
The way the doctor was treated in the recent video does not surprise me. I have believed for years that United employees exhibit racist attitudes against its Asian customers, and have heard extremely demeaning comments by the staff to people in coach (sometimes saying things to customers in a manner that implies they believe the Asian customer doesn't understand them anyway. Ugh at so many levels).
Business class seems to be a different story, so it does appear to be "class" oriented as well. Some of this attitude from the staff seems to be based on poor management from the top (Jeff Smisak seemed to create a lot of resentment; those were tough years for us consumers of United).It seems that cuts in salary, flights, and status, mean the oldest staff members fly those Asian routes. I have flown 57 times to Asia on United in 8 years and the stewards are, in general, mean-spirited and grumpy.
I hate to write such a negative comment but others here have it right: carriers outside of the US seem to be doing something right. Not sure what the answer is.
152
Sorry, pay and management doesn't grant the flight attendants the right to demean and abuse the customer. That's what their union is for.
10
One answer, Sir, for your excellent and appreciated comments, is for people
like you in particular (flown 57 times to Asia on United in 8 years) not fly United and let them know why. If people as sensitive and knowledgeable as yourself continue to affirm them by your patronage, how much can the rest of us hope to have affect?
like you in particular (flown 57 times to Asia on United in 8 years) not fly United and let them know why. If people as sensitive and knowledgeable as yourself continue to affirm them by your patronage, how much can the rest of us hope to have affect?
3
Sorry, the connection between how a company treats its employees and how those employees then treat their customers is virtually a business maxim. Management doesn't get a pass simply because they don't interact with their customers.
8
I lived in Chicago for ten years, and I traveled frequently (usually over 100,000 miles per year). Early on, I experienced United's operational deficiencies: canceled flights, significant delays not attributable to any identifiable source and, yep, overbooked flights from which they "randomly choose" passengers to stay behind. I joked that the last three times I flew United, I vowed to never do it again, and the very last time, I really meant it.
I did mean it, and even living in the Chicago hub I found other airlines and routes to avoid them. Since I moved from Chicago, I have flown with them just a few times when it was absolutely necessary, but since this incident, I will never go back, even if I am extremely inconvenienced by the alternative. Seems to me that if they have any chance of recovery following this debacle, it must involve a complete operational, employee training and corporate communications overhaul. Good luck.
I did mean it, and even living in the Chicago hub I found other airlines and routes to avoid them. Since I moved from Chicago, I have flown with them just a few times when it was absolutely necessary, but since this incident, I will never go back, even if I am extremely inconvenienced by the alternative. Seems to me that if they have any chance of recovery following this debacle, it must involve a complete operational, employee training and corporate communications overhaul. Good luck.
95
They could also consider renaming themselves, like the airline that broke regulations about carrying dangerous cargo and other safety rules -- ValuJet erased itself and became AirTran and stayed in business till it was bought out by Southwest (I think). I am sure consumers would be interested in helping to suggest names!
2
Honestly I find all of the North American airlines and airports similar in their lack of customer service and in their officious, annoying holier than thou attitude -- and I fly business all the time. Late departures are normal. Forget about priority luggage -- what a laughable farce; often my luggage clearly marked priority, comes out near the end. [In contrast, I note that Carribbean Airlines which I recently used, carefully separated the priority luggage from the other luggage and ensured it came off first -- I watched the process from the airplane window]. Certainly in Business class one is treated better but the whole flying experience from the moment one enters the airport terminal is pretty stressful for everyone. One thing I do note is that Delta, while guilty of poor service (very often leaving late) was good in responding to complaints, better than a lot of other airlines, including its partners.
38
I have had excellent experiences with Southwest, even when my husband had to change my and my sons flight due to an accident where I was unable to fly. When I fly internationally, it seems like almost every quality airline is better than our US ones.
42
Southwest has always treated me fairly and with genuine humanity, and I think that sets them apart from all the other carriers. Every employee seems to genuinely CARE about treating all customers with kindness and courtesy.
13
I am amazed that heavily frequent flyer clients are as dumped on by airlines as us occasional flyers. Amazing. Seems to me there is an opportunity for someone here.
2
With 1,500,000 seat miles on United I thought I'd experienced every perversion of customer service and deception a company could make up. Using force to pull a passenger off a plane takes bad customer service to a new level. My guess is the next leg down will be serving dog food to passengers for only $15 per can.
125
Great comment, Paul. You and others (including myself) recognize that UAL is awful, but we keep flying UAL because there's no real choice, given a ton of variables that end up funneling folks to UAL for many different reasons.
If there was a viable alternative, I would guess that you'd go that route. But there aren't viable alternatives for a variety of reasons, cost and scheduling being at the top. That's what infuriates me about this story. It's a hypothetical exercise that ignores the real world. We live in the real world and, sadly, so does UAL.
If there was a viable alternative, I would guess that you'd go that route. But there aren't viable alternatives for a variety of reasons, cost and scheduling being at the top. That's what infuriates me about this story. It's a hypothetical exercise that ignores the real world. We live in the real world and, sadly, so does UAL.
After reading several such comments from readers, I don't understand: Why, after " 1,500,000 seat miles" (which I would interpret as "Airline Hell") "on United, I thought I'd experienced every perversion of customer service and deception a company could make up" Unbelievable. Why did you contintinue to such an astonishing level? Company requirement? What? YOU ARE ONE OF THE IMPORTANT PERSONS IN GETTING THIS SITUATIONS CHANGED. How much attention and impact do you think my one flight a year is going to have? If you experience such disrespect and disinterest, what do you thinkI and other less travelled clients receive? I can't help but think how much misery they routinely introduce to your life which includes extensive business travel. Please don't let them get by with it for either of us. Thank you.
3
If I can't get there domestically w Southwest or JetBlue I'm not going.
94
Actually there is not much difference between the culture of American, Air Canada, United and most other American airlines. many airlines have lost or damaged luggage, cabin crew spend 3/4 of their flight huddled and chatting in the small area at the back of the plane, airline employees are unable to remember basic procedures, maintain composure and facilitate passengers when dealing with mechanical problems, over-booked flights or passengers arriving at the gate due to their connecting flight arriving five minutes late. Also, how many passengers have been asked to move by the cabin crew to accommodate their free flying family, or large families of free flying airline employees returning from vacationing with multiple carry-ons, food, toys plus the grandparents? Passengers are moved (without their consent) after paying extra for their seat find they are now seated across from the bath room doors at the back of the plane. The promo of 'collecting' air-miles from every sales outlet on the face of the earth, is a terrible gimmick that ought to be scrapped. The necessity of flying can be compared to travel by oxen and cart.
44
Spoken like a woman who doesn't have to fly US airlines.
2
She DID mention Air Canada.
3
On a trip from London to Alaska (via New York and Vancouver) and back we did everything possible to avoid an American carrier. In a study as described in this article it would be difficult to choose between the two after an experience my mother-in-law had with American a few years back when they came to visit us. She had passed out near the toilets and was completely ignored by the flight attendants when she came to and was struggling to get to her seat. She made the mistake of handing the complaint form (and they rarely complain) to the flight attendant.
It turns out it was impossible to avoid flying United from Alaska to the continental US because the rules don't allow a non-US carrier. As B from Minneapolis points out, the real problem is consolidation and rules that favor US carriers.
We flew Cathay Pacific from NY to Vancouver and their Premium Economy is better than United First Class. Stories are coming out now about United that show a pervasive culture that allows bullying and mistreatment of passengers and lying to cover it up. The incident with Dr Dao was just a convergence of long-standing practices and attitudes. It was an incident waiting to happen.
It turns out it was impossible to avoid flying United from Alaska to the continental US because the rules don't allow a non-US carrier. As B from Minneapolis points out, the real problem is consolidation and rules that favor US carriers.
We flew Cathay Pacific from NY to Vancouver and their Premium Economy is better than United First Class. Stories are coming out now about United that show a pervasive culture that allows bullying and mistreatment of passengers and lying to cover it up. The incident with Dr Dao was just a convergence of long-standing practices and attitudes. It was an incident waiting to happen.
118
"Pervasive culture that allows bullying and mistreatment of passengers" seems to be the motto of too many leaders, communities (substitute "people" for "passengers"), and businesses in the U.S.
6
Next time fly Alaska! They're wonderful!
2
I fly to Asia all the time in economy but I pay extra to sit in the exit row for 13 hour flight JFK to Tokyo on United. I'm a elite member of United's frequent flyer program, have its credit card, and hundred of thousands unused frequent flyer miles. With all this I'm willing to stop flying United after their terrible militaristic gate agents and cabin attendents eager to remove passengers from a flight if you look cross eyed at them. Delta doesn't fly to Bangkok anymore where I fly. I wanted to fly the Japanese airline ANA for all my Asia travel, even willing to suffer smaller legroom but their Boeing 77W planes have non reclinable seats to Tokyo and those gave me a terrible lower back pain and stiff neck of a previous short 6 hour flight. I would not survive a 13 hour flight on ANA' non recline seats so I an stuck with United. If United puts those non recline seats on their transpacific planes, I'll then move to Korean Air or Asiana. I'm stuck with United for the moment. I fly them in 10 days time.
15
Thank you for your comment and explanation.
3
After the most miserable flight in United basic economy from Europe to the US, I declare the airlines have beat me. Nine hours in the smallest possible space (three seats on the side which used to be two) just wore me down.
No more trips to Europe unless I can fly business class, if it means fewer trips then so be it.
No more trips to Europe unless I can fly business class, if it means fewer trips then so be it.
78
Maybe you should look into ocean liners! It may take a few days longer, but what a colossally better experience!
3
I would also suggest flying the country of your destination's airline. The prices are often comparable, but service, food and comfort way better.
4
The respondents are reacting to an egregious example of how little an airline cared about customer service. The real problem is airline consolidation - to the point where they don't have to care unless they do something really stupid like dragging a customer off a plane
None of the major airlines really care about customer service unless you believe their marketing hype. If you look at what they do (rather than what they say), they are squeezing us into smaller and smaller seats, charging for every possible feature of air travel, herding us like cattle onto and off of their planes, creating multiple class differences (first, business, preferred and chattel) to drive more revenue and using their market control to inflate prices.
They can do this to us because our government allowed them to consolidate into 4 major airlines that have divided up most of the major hubs so one dominates each of them.
For example, Delta flew 71% of all passengers from Minneapolis in 2016. United once tried to increase its marketshare between Chicago and Minneapolis by reducing its price well below Delta's. Delta matched the lower price until United gave up and increased its price to match Delta normally high price. United is trying again by pricing a roundtrip at less than $100 compared to Delta's price of $360 and up. Delta has cut prices on its planes in half and is using its contracted cheapo airline (e.g., GoJet) to match United's low price. United will probably give up again
None of the major airlines really care about customer service unless you believe their marketing hype. If you look at what they do (rather than what they say), they are squeezing us into smaller and smaller seats, charging for every possible feature of air travel, herding us like cattle onto and off of their planes, creating multiple class differences (first, business, preferred and chattel) to drive more revenue and using their market control to inflate prices.
They can do this to us because our government allowed them to consolidate into 4 major airlines that have divided up most of the major hubs so one dominates each of them.
For example, Delta flew 71% of all passengers from Minneapolis in 2016. United once tried to increase its marketshare between Chicago and Minneapolis by reducing its price well below Delta's. Delta matched the lower price until United gave up and increased its price to match Delta normally high price. United is trying again by pricing a roundtrip at less than $100 compared to Delta's price of $360 and up. Delta has cut prices on its planes in half and is using its contracted cheapo airline (e.g., GoJet) to match United's low price. United will probably give up again
68
"We don't care. We don't have to. We're the plane company."
7
"They can do this to us because our government allowed them to consolidate into 4 major airlines that have divided up most of the major hubs so one dominates each of them." Etcetera.
4
It seems United has gone off the handle. The recent news of United booting off a couple on their honeymoon adds to that.
27
I Think they wanted publicity (and attendent freebies) and they are getting it.
7
The facts support the couple being removed as they were hopping about trying to sit in more expensive seats they had not paid for. Sorry, you don't get to do that. Oh, but the "fact" that they were supposedly going to their wedding is supposed to make that all okay?
7
That's now. Wait till it blows over and United starts offering very low fares.
These people will come back.
These people will come back.
15
Choose between 2 terrible options? Both airlines rank low in Consumer Reports, and LaGuardia is a terrible place from which to fly. Our domestic choices are better and easy, JetBlue from Kennedy, one of the best airlines and the best airports in the NYC area.
18
This is interesting because anecdotally (but perhaps with data backing it up) American and United are the worst domestic airlines. I'd like to see this comparison between United and Delta/ Jet Blue/ Alaskan/ Southwest. Although it seems that price is the greatest motivator I wonder if there are a considerable number of defectors who simply cannot tolerate United.
26
Alaska not Alaskan
2
There are. At least this one.
4
Alaska is GREAT!!! If I can't get there on Alaska, I reconsider my plans.
Seriously. We have flown our daughter and two granddaughters from Raleigh to Seattle and back, several times for a family vacation. They loved it, too. Seriously, it's like flying 20 or 30 years ago. Go, Alaska!!!! We used to drive all the way down to Oklahoma City for Alaska flights. Starting this month, now flying out of Wichita. Oh, happy, happy DAY.
Seriously. We have flown our daughter and two granddaughters from Raleigh to Seattle and back, several times for a family vacation. They loved it, too. Seriously, it's like flying 20 or 30 years ago. Go, Alaska!!!! We used to drive all the way down to Oklahoma City for Alaska flights. Starting this month, now flying out of Wichita. Oh, happy, happy DAY.
6
Even before this, I had decided that it would require a life or death situation for us to fly on United, ever again. This was a result of being stranded in Denver, several times. Due to " weather ". Funny, other airlines were flying. Later found out it was United computer problems. They don't cover expenses for " weather ". Thunderstorms in Kansas, in summer. Never happens, LOL. I'll drive first. Seriously.
111
Thunderstorms do happen in Kansas in the summer.
https://www.hayspost.com/2016/07/12/summer-storms-bring-heavy-rain-stron...
https://www.hayspost.com/2016/07/12/summer-storms-bring-heavy-rain-stron...
1
SB: I think Phyliss from Kansas was being sarcastic. Jeez!
7
MS: thanks. I sometimes forget that some people LACK a sarcasm meter.
5