I'm not sure if there's any science to it, but I actively encourage my toddler to get dirty in the bacteria of the natural environment (woods, fields, etc). I'm less keen on human viruses and tend to avoid daycares and soft play areas and other vectors for transmission. In a sample size of 1 this seems to be having the desired effect: she is never sick and has no allergies. As non-scientists we tend to lump everything into "germs" but I wonder if there is a meaningful difference between viral and bacterial exposures and if the later confers benefits that the former does not?
2
Easy fix - get a dog!
6
Somehow, I suspect through drug company advertising, we have become convinced that humans are just giant agar agar cubes waiting to grow whatever bacteria comes along. I recently read an article (sponsored by a soap company) that recommended washing your hands once an hour because of all the bacteria in our environments. My mom, a nurse, (she would have turned 100 this week) used to say, "eat it anyway, it will help your immune system." In the 90's I had a friend who wouldn't let her children go outdoors after learning of round worms. Another friend whose child developed rickets because she slathered him in sunscreen and made him wear a floppy hat and sunglasses since birth. Thank you for this article!
1
It is so gross to lick off a baby's pacifier. Many adults have cold sores and possibly oral STDs, including human papillomavirus and herpes type 2. Tooth decay is caused by bacteria picked up from parents. Wipe it off with a tissue but don't lick it.
6
I just wish epidemiologists kept their results to themselves until they know what mechanism is causing the correlation they are making headlines with. Nobody knows what causes eczema or atopic dermatitis, the study might be tilted by an imbalance of some allele between control group and treatment group. Some dirt and specific microbes might be good for some people and bad for others, depending on the microbiome, mood or menstrual cycle. So, can we get money diverted to researching eczema instead of making silly correlations between things we don't understand?
2
I’ve wondered what we are missing too. My son has multiple food allergies/eczema and I did all the recommended things to prevent them. He was born vaginally, he has not needed antibiotics, we had a dog (he become allergic so we found the dog a new home), extended breastfeeding, encouraged playing in the dirt, we eat a wide variety of foods (during pregnancy and while breastfeeding). I tried introducing allergenic foods early and unfortunately discovered a severe egg allergy at 7 months of age. There has to be more factors than “just let your kid play in the dirt and get a dog.”
3
The 5 second rule worked for me and my family.
2
Bacteria in our environment are only a problem if they get into our blood stream through cuts, abrasions and sores, heart valves and organs, including our spine and the membrane of our brain. Fungi in the soil can present a challenge to those with compromised immune systems. Parents and team coaches need to scrub out every cut and graze ASAP with a soft nail brush, soap and water. This is particularly important for anyone playing a sport on artificial turf.
Far more serious for the general preadolescent populace, especially in poor neighbourhoods, are salts of lead, cadmium, and arsenic, plus the pthalates, found in road dust and house dust.
Last but not least, the ground floor of every dwelling and office space in many regions of the USA needs subfloor ventilation to flush out radon, the biggest cause of lung cancer after smoking.
Far more serious for the general preadolescent populace, especially in poor neighbourhoods, are salts of lead, cadmium, and arsenic, plus the pthalates, found in road dust and house dust.
Last but not least, the ground floor of every dwelling and office space in many regions of the USA needs subfloor ventilation to flush out radon, the biggest cause of lung cancer after smoking.
3
this morning I am at the sink and fresh eggs from the chicken coop soak to help remove "unwanted stuff". I notice 3 sippy cups right next to the soaking eggs. Really?
this is my life. sarah is pregnant again and Clyde collected the eggs.
we hope for the best....I guess I just stopped being afraid of germs when I could not stop the dogs from licking Clyde on the mouth
this is my life. sarah is pregnant again and Clyde collected the eggs.
we hope for the best....I guess I just stopped being afraid of germs when I could not stop the dogs from licking Clyde on the mouth
Interesting there is no mention of the fact that the chemicals used to clean the environment in the contemporary household are probably a lot worse for people than the traditional microbes. A little dirt is good for you in a lot of ways.
5
I rolled around in the mud a ton as a child and am rarely sick, while my friends who were more sheltered as kids are often sick and in addition have many allergies. Recently, as a medical student, I learned about the hygiene hypothesis. Have you ever thought about why children in developing countries don't have allergies? It's because their immune systems are preoccupied with fighting off parasites/helminths while ours have nothing to do but elicit hypersensitivity responses to peanuts and dust particles. Let your kids play in the dirt and don't run to the doctor requesting antibiotics every time they sniffle-- they'll thank you later.
1
Remember playing in sand boxes and mud puddles?
1
for those of us who believe in evolution its simple; we evolved this beautiful adaptie immune system and ten took away its job. now instead of eating bacteria germs microbes viruses etc, with nothing to do, our immune systems eat the only thing left; the host. hence all these auto-immumne diseases including not just simple ones like those mentioned but also MS, crohns and the many others that are basically improper immune responses run amok. it aint rocket science.
flyoverland, I am afraid it IS "rocket science" as you put it. Our immune system has a million other things to do, believe it or not. Even though we try to keep our environment very sanitized, we are swimming in microbes. For example, you pull the flush and the room is filled with --it.
So, our immune system is busy even in this sanitized environment, believe it or not. The reasons for autoimmune diseases are complex and and are being investigated by the sharpest minds. No easy answers there, I am afraid.
So, our immune system is busy even in this sanitized environment, believe it or not. The reasons for autoimmune diseases are complex and and are being investigated by the sharpest minds. No easy answers there, I am afraid.
1
Interesting picture at the top of the story. I suppose it never occurred to that baby who's crawling with its hands on the same floor as the fallen pacifier's parents, that that same child would put its hands in its mouth. I sure hope they don't try and boil those too.
4
“There are definitive ways to embrace the controlled exposure or uncontrolled defined exposure to that rich microbial world early in life”.
Huh?
The good doctor has made it so complicated that I can never hope to understand that.
Huh?
The good doctor has made it so complicated that I can never hope to understand that.
2
"A 2013 Swedish study, for example, showed that children whose parents just sucked their pacifiers clean had a lower risk of developing eczema." Whoa... I guess these pacifier-sucking parents weren't familiar with the risks of cytomegalovirus??
"CMV Is a Greater Threat to Infants Than Zika, but Far Less Often Discussed"
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/25/health/cmv-cytomegalovirus-pregnancy....
"CMV Is a Greater Threat to Infants Than Zika, but Far Less Often Discussed"
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/25/health/cmv-cytomegalovirus-pregnancy....
2
Like most parents, my hygiene standards declined exponentially with each child. But one thing I always consider when this topic is raised - when I was a kids we had pretty insular lives and were exposed to minimal microbes outside the environment of our limited neighborhood. Today people from all over the country and world are in and out of my neighborhood on any given day bringing with them microbes that are perfectly normal for their immune systems but new to mine/kids. Not too mention how much more environmental pollution my kids are exposed to. So like all things - it seems common sense should rule the day. Wash hands before eating and don't put strange things in your mouth!!!
3
this reminds me of Michael Pollan's writing about fermented cheese made by a cloistered nun in a traditional wooden barrel. The health department tried to shut her down, citing stainless steel as more hygienic. This sister also had a PhD in microbiology, so naturally she ran two batches of cheese, one in the wooden barrel (which couldn't be sterilized and had a film of bacteria on it) and one in the stainless steel.
The wooden barrel batch came out with no "nasty bugs"--whereas the stainless steel cheese was swimming with E. coli. Her point was proven: the "good bugs" in the wooden barrel out-competed the "bad bugs" present in the fermenting cheese. The microbiome could essentially police itself thanks to the bacteria living in the nicks and pockets in the wooden barrel--not so in the sterilized stainless steel container.
The wooden barrel batch came out with no "nasty bugs"--whereas the stainless steel cheese was swimming with E. coli. Her point was proven: the "good bugs" in the wooden barrel out-competed the "bad bugs" present in the fermenting cheese. The microbiome could essentially police itself thanks to the bacteria living in the nicks and pockets in the wooden barrel--not so in the sterilized stainless steel container.
23
I just realized the first sentence reads as if the nun were standing in a barrel while making cheese...
1
No doctor here but ABSOLUTELY. The body learns to fight disease by first getting it. Some call it a vaccine. Immunity anyone? So the cleaner the young environment the most likely outcome will be the greater diseased old one. And this become more of a truism once the protection of the home is lost. Remember your children and their first years of school?
3
My Mom who is old enough to have been around before polio vaccine, used to tell me that when she was a child there were more cases of polio in the cleaner suburbs then in the slums (that's what they called it in those days) of Paterson N.J. And now we know why!
4
George Carlin was talking about this in 1999, worth seeing: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0246645/
Often humor conveys things more effectively than scientific studies.
Often humor conveys things more effectively than scientific studies.
2
No mention of dust as a vehicle for exposure to other chemicals like flame retardants, pesticides, etc. Well known in the environmental health community that several toxic chemicals adhere to dust particles. Toddlers have higher exposure to dust as they spend more time on the floor and have more hand to mouth behaviors. Infants and children are more susceptible to the effects of these chemicals because their systems are not fully formed. In a New York City apartment you will likely find particles from air pollutants, pesticide residues, possibly allergens from roaches, flame retardants, phthalates, etc. https://www.nrdc.org/resources/not-just-dirt-toxic-chemicals-indoor-dust
1
Dust exposure to lead & other toxic heavy metals is certainly related to your comment. Good to add that to the complexity presented in this piece - depending on where you live, there could be abiotic exposures to consider as part of a bigger picture decision.
Give your baby a healthy start in life: Get a dog.
11
Maybe medical schools should throw a little epistemology in with the epidemiology; before you do no harm, you need to know what you're doing.
2
When I was a kid I bit my nails. I've enjoyed excellent health (so far) with no allergies, asthma or such. My siblings haven't been as fortunate.
We were all raised in the same house, same level of cleanliness (clean but certainly not antiseptic), although my siblings didn't bite their nails. I've always wondered if my being healthier than my siblings was attributable, at least to some extent, to my nail-biting - did ingesting all those germs for all those years immunize me? Makes sense to me.
We were all raised in the same house, same level of cleanliness (clean but certainly not antiseptic), although my siblings didn't bite their nails. I've always wondered if my being healthier than my siblings was attributable, at least to some extent, to my nail-biting - did ingesting all those germs for all those years immunize me? Makes sense to me.
4
Most of the bacteria living in human bodies evolved with us over 10000s of years and provide many benefits but (especially to digestion and immune health). We would be dead without them and so should not try to cleanse them away.
3
"You have to eat a pound of dirt before you're grown" - that's what my Mom used to say and it looks like she was right!
6
I recall literally eating the dirt - it tastes the way that it smells and is surprisingly gritty - from the yard in which my grandparents kept their free-range chickens. I'll be eighty years old, in a few weeks.
1
I have a co-worker who is a fanatical house cleaner, including liberal use of antibacterial wipes and sprays. She has three kids and they are always sick with stomach viruses, strep throat, ear infections, and also regularly contract MRSA.
I can't help but think a bit of dirt in her house would increase their immunity.
I can't help but think a bit of dirt in her house would increase their immunity.
10
And think of how much cleaner our environment will be for those kids, without the antibacterial goop in the water, the wipes in the landfill, the bleach and other cleaning agents in our lungs (Formula 409, I'm talking to you), the gigatons of paper toweling, napkins, etc etc clogging up the world we live in. My mother lived by the "gotta eat a peck of dirt before you die" theory and all 7 of her kids grew up strong and healthy!
4
Don't be stupid here in the US. Dirty here means really dirty. It is not like the dirty in africa..where we meant dirty is soil and mud. Here in US, dirty is real dirty, nuclear remains, soap and other detergents. I used to run barefoot in kenya but I put on my shoe as soon as I got off philadelphia international airport. So, don't be stupid.
9
I am a big believer in letting kids do dirty things and keeping the house a little dirty but it does come with a price. My son recently developed a UTI and the likely culprits are his dirty hands and/or the dirty bath tub. It resolved with antibiotics, but it was excruciating. Also, taking lots of antibiotics ADDS to the risk of developing auto-immune disease.
But yeah, he doesn't have allergies and asthma, though his dad has them. So maybe all those germs helped him :)
But yeah, he doesn't have allergies and asthma, though his dad has them. So maybe all those germs helped him :)
3
Who knew that being such a lousy housekerper and neglectful (sometimes) parent would pay off? My kids find dog hair in the mashed potatoes, may or may not wash their hands, and have no allergies. I was ahead of my time.
19
I recall reading that German kids growing up on general farms (ones with several types of animals or birds) never developed asthma and few allergies. The same was found of kids raised with multiple animal species. The same was not found with kids growing up on corn and wheat farms (no animals outside of a dog or cat).
8
This all makes sense to me. As an adult, I developed eczema on my arms and legs and feet. Then last year, I started taking a probiotic daily. The real kind that has to be refrigerated, with 100 billion microbes in each dose. Voila! Within 6 weeks, my arms and feet were as smooth as silk. No more eczema. And the nail fungus on my big toe went away too!!!
8
When one considers that there are over 200,000 species of microorganisms that reside on or within the human body, it seems that the concern about exposure to "germs" is way overblown. That is 200,000 SPECIES - not individual organisms - and includes microorganisms, viruses and bacteria. Some are harmful, while others are beneficial, and they are all our distant relatives.
9
Hmmm....this means that the Japaese, with their extreme levels hygiene, would have had these problems for centuries. And have they?
6
This is a gross and unproductive generalization of the Japanese.
2
What "extreme levels" are you talking about, like the entire family and any guests bathing in the same water?
As a childcare provider, I've observed that today's parents are strongly averse to restricting their little ones to limited activity areas. Where once we had "playpens," which could be kept clean and safe and fairly unsupervised, today the whole house is open to tots, who thus need to be guarded constantly. Parents vacuum repeatedly. Stairs are often ungated. Shoes are not to be worn, due to the danger of outside germs. The approach adds a new level of exhaustion to the job.
The same folks who feel it's kind and useful to provide their dogs with crates for security don't want to consider a set-aside corner of their home that babies and toddlers can call theit own.
The same folks who feel it's kind and useful to provide their dogs with crates for security don't want to consider a set-aside corner of their home that babies and toddlers can call theit own.
9
I am in total agreement. My mother smoked during her three pregnancies in the 1950s, and drank a little bit of beer once in a while. My parents continued to smoke throughout my entire upbringing. I was formula fed. Our house was very clean, as we had a housekeeper once a week, and we were all responsible for cleaning other parts of the house. My parents were also doctors. I ate dirt as a child. I had no allergies at all until I was an adult, and suffered a skull fracture, and had asthma for 10 years, and used an inhaler. I believe in living in a normal environment, which means it is not overly clean. I have no allergies at all, just as I did not have any as a child, and my asthma has been completely cleared up for 10 years. I only had asthma for 10 years, and it was directly as a result of a skull fracture, with pneumonia and strep.
3
I am glad to know the benefits of my poor housekeeping skills. I am sure my children were not deprived of their "rich microbial world" in that way. However, both my kids were C-section, and my daughter had repeated bouts of ear infections (and the accompanying bubble-gum flavored antibiotic). She grew up with both allergies and asthma, issues my son does not suffer from.
6
One wonders whether adults also need their immune systems challenged and excercised to remain strong. Just an observation but I notice by 'clean freak' friends seem to get sicker more often
15
Or is it that your friends who get sick more often are more conscious of their need to control their environments?
6
Quite possible you are right - but I would love to see some research done. You gotta exercise your muscles and your brain to keep the functioning well; maybe that applies to your immune system too.
5
I've always found it odd, that at least in my family, if food falls on the floor it's perfectly o.k. to let the dog eat it, yet not for the kids. Do we think dogs have some unusual immunity, or is it because they clean themselves with their tongues and might eat their own feces?
3
It's because we aren't as concerned about the health of our dogs as we are of our children. It has nothing to do with beliefs about differing immune systems.
2
In our family anything that hits the floor legally belongs to the dog; for kids we have the 5-second rule in case the dog doesn't get to it first. They did a study a while back that found food retrieved under the 5-second rule was crawling with deadly microbes... only no one at our house ever gets sick.
6
Dogs' digestive systems are not the same as ours. I think that means they have different gut cultures.
I'm skeptical of this. I don't believe that houses are cleaner and less dusty than, say, 50 years ago. The amount of time women spend housekeeping has dropped from 26 hours/week to 13 hours/week. The time spent by men has risen on housekeeping has risen to 7 hours/week - which is not enough to compensate. I suspect that home cleanliness peaked in the early 1960s, before women decided there were more important things to do in life than to make sure the kitchen floor is clean enough to eat off.
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0056620
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0056620
7
I'm not, there are many other differences other than how often the drapes are vacuumed. Hand soaps are mostly antibacterial and cleaning solutions promote how many bacteria and viruses they kill. Not to mention, antibiotics for kids are at much higher levels than 50 years ago, and there are antibiotics in food that weren't there 50 years ago. And how many kids play outside in the woods, in the dirt, like they did 50 years ago?
16
Talking about whether germs are good for the immune system is like talking about whether animals are good for ecosystems: it's such a vague and ill-posed hypothesis that we're not apt to get far. Observational studies are interesting--that Swedish study suggests, for instance, that neonatal infection with parents' herpesviruses (e.g., Epstein-Barr virus, HSV-1/2, and/or cytomegalovirus) might reduce eczema, but it's an obvious stretch to conclude that that means such infections are "good" (EBV increases the risk of lymphoma, CMV can cause immunosuppression), or that hand sanitizers are thus a waste of time too. There is a tension between the standards of health we seek now and the evolutionary pressures that gave rise to our immune systems. It is unwise to romanticize those pressures and try to recreate the conditions of our ancestors. They did not live very long or well by our standards.
There's a lot of fascinating work to be done here, but it would be a shame to roll back hygiene practices indiscriminately. Hand-washing, reductions in salivary and blood transmission, good sanitation, pasteurization, etc. have only recently enabled us, as a species, to start avoiding nature's brutality.
There's a lot of fascinating work to be done here, but it would be a shame to roll back hygiene practices indiscriminately. Hand-washing, reductions in salivary and blood transmission, good sanitation, pasteurization, etc. have only recently enabled us, as a species, to start avoiding nature's brutality.
41
Thank you! Well said!
1
Feeding babies fermentable fibers (GOS and inulin) for only 6 months helped establish a healthy microbiome in babies at high risk for allergies. An Italian study found that after 5 years, only 4.8% of that children had persistent allergic manifestations (rhinoconjunctivitis, eczema, persistent wheezing) compared to 26% of the controls. They were only fed fermentable fibers for 6 months and the health effects were still seen at 5 years old. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23158515.
People eating unprocessed foods get 30-40 grams of resistant starch (another fermentable fiber) every day. American adults get about 5 grams of resistant starch/day. Without feeding the good bacteria in our intestinal tract, our health suffers. The authors of this study left out the huge importance of fermentable fibers in the diet to keep the microbiome in good shape.
Forget about insoluble vs. soluble fibers, a much better way to understand it is bulking, viscous and fermentable fibers, which really explains the different benefits of different types of fibers. http://fiberfacts.org/benefits-of-fiber/
People eating unprocessed foods get 30-40 grams of resistant starch (another fermentable fiber) every day. American adults get about 5 grams of resistant starch/day. Without feeding the good bacteria in our intestinal tract, our health suffers. The authors of this study left out the huge importance of fermentable fibers in the diet to keep the microbiome in good shape.
Forget about insoluble vs. soluble fibers, a much better way to understand it is bulking, viscous and fermentable fibers, which really explains the different benefits of different types of fibers. http://fiberfacts.org/benefits-of-fiber/
5
It seems to me that our society today is borderline, if not outright, psychotic about our relationship to the Web of Life within which we are enmeshed. Consider the last half century and the way by which our capitalistic system has sold such things as cleaning products, etc.. They have hyped "cleanliness" to high heavens; and we bought it hook, line and sinker. It has, consequently and to put it bluntly, made most of us in our crystalline cities and cages of artifice we call homes juuust a bit nuts.
The reality is we can no more separate ourselves from life's entanglement than we can remove ourselves of our skin. We should understand this better, and in so doing reach a better accommodation with all the other life forms who share the planet with us. We, and our children, would be the better for it.
John~
American Net'Zen
The reality is we can no more separate ourselves from life's entanglement than we can remove ourselves of our skin. We should understand this better, and in so doing reach a better accommodation with all the other life forms who share the planet with us. We, and our children, would be the better for it.
John~
American Net'Zen
13
When my daughter was young I was never much of a housekeeper, hated it with a passion and only did it if company was coming over. I often teasingly told my daughter that the greatest gift I gave her was her stellar immune system. She had me and my lack of housekeeping prowess to thank for that.
20
The studies that I have read about the Amish show that they have fewer allergies, etc. due to being exposed not only to lots of germs and dirt, but also to unpasteurized dairy products. My kids grew up on raw milk from a clean, well run local farm, and have always been very healthy. I have used only raw milk for many years and am 51 years old and basically never get sick. Pasteurizing milk came about to cover up for the dirty, unhealthy conditions of industrial farming.
6
Bovine TB existed and harmed humans through raw milk consumption long before the advent of industrial farming.
15
The hospital I work in seems a number of people who raise their own sheep and goats, and I've seen more than one case of brucellosis.
6
After a friend gave birth, her obstetrician recommended that as soon as she could, take the baby on the NYC subway, thereby inoculating it against every disease known to man.
54
This is the best comment here! But, I would say stay out of the way of the rats in the subway stations, the creatures being more numerous than when I was growing up. They do carry nasty diseases.
Here's to the numbers 2 and 5 trains in the Bronx... now I can thank my dad for something more--my rides on the NYC subways when I was little and his lessons on how to use the system by the time I turned 10.
Here's to the numbers 2 and 5 trains in the Bronx... now I can thank my dad for something more--my rides on the NYC subways when I was little and his lessons on how to use the system by the time I turned 10.
7
It's not about germs. It's abut exposing an infant to those extreme sound levels that could be harmful -- is harmful to adults!
4
Reviewing the scientific literature in pdoing a research project on disinfecting blood pressure cuffs for work, I found that in order to kill disease causing organisms first all organic material and dirt must be removed, then the disinfectant including alcohol had to be on the surface and the surface actually wet for 10 full minutes for disinfection to occur. This is true for nonporous surfaces like hands. So how briefly rubbing hands with alcohol hand sanitizer does anything except smear the organisms around us impossible to believe. Has anyone other than those who sell the stuff performed scientific testing to see if alcohol hand sanitizers do anything at all?
5
Yes. It's very effective.
1
What does the alcohol in hand sanitizers and the other chemicals in them do to the livers of the people who use them? The fingernails have four times the absorption rate of the skin--through the absorption through the fingernails it would seem the exposure would be more as if people are drinking that chemical stuff.
1
I have never been so grateful for my mother's relaxed approach to cleanliness. Our home was never truly clean, we played outside all the time and tracked the dirt inside, my mother forced us kids to take baths only once a week (whether we needed it or not) and my siblings and I rarely, if ever, get sick.
Although my partner and I don't have children, I keep bringing up the importance of cultivating a rich microbiome in our home as a defense against too much cleaning. He isn't buying it!
Although my partner and I don't have children, I keep bringing up the importance of cultivating a rich microbiome in our home as a defense against too much cleaning. He isn't buying it!
21
interesting article. what about exposing young children to dogs or other pets? has this been studied? anecdotally, pets appear to improve child health, perhaps by creating a more diverse exposure to microbes. it would be good to know if there is any science behind this oberservation.
7
I am concerned with all the hand sanitizers. Go to the gym and everyone is spraying after every use of every machine. We then go shower with antiseptic soap. Can this seem healthy, but be causing unhealthy flora or even superbugs?
19
I grew up with the phrase "The kids must eat their peck of dirt". it meant that we needed to get dirty, play outside as much as possbile and not always be in a "clean" environments. My sister and I both grew up and remain healthy.
When my husband and i sailed around the word, we lived primarily outdoors (well, we were protected by a thin fiberglass shell. We lived in lots of places where hygiene standards were not those of the US. And in others where they were, better. We rode busses & trains, shopped in outdoor food markets, and were generally out in the community as much as possible.
With the exception of my bout with bronchitis in Italy, we were never sick. Now back in the US, in our enclosed buildings and livingless of an outdoor livfe. Colds. Flu. Allergies. Stomach upsets. Not often, but definitely a change from our boat life.
So, eat your peck of dirt and get outside. Especially the kids!
When my husband and i sailed around the word, we lived primarily outdoors (well, we were protected by a thin fiberglass shell. We lived in lots of places where hygiene standards were not those of the US. And in others where they were, better. We rode busses & trains, shopped in outdoor food markets, and were generally out in the community as much as possible.
With the exception of my bout with bronchitis in Italy, we were never sick. Now back in the US, in our enclosed buildings and livingless of an outdoor livfe. Colds. Flu. Allergies. Stomach upsets. Not often, but definitely a change from our boat life.
So, eat your peck of dirt and get outside. Especially the kids!
23
I can't believe this article. The problem is you ignore the fact that many if not all chemicals that are so called "safe" are never tested to see it their use by a pregnant women affects the fetus. You ignore the dousing of wheat with Glyphosate. You ignore the effects of diet soda on a fetus and more.
Meanwhile the health of children continues to decline so what do we do. We blame germs. Wake up!
Meanwhile the health of children continues to decline so what do we do. We blame germs. Wake up!
15
Brava! Damage to the adrenals can affect immunity and the adrenals are sensitive to many types of chemical exposures.
5
Articles like this one don't show the whole picture. Dust in modern homes is a stew of chemicals including flame retardants and phthalates. Keep you home clean and expose your child to animals and soil.
33
I am heartily sick of these NYT articles extolling the virtues of germs and dirt, while neglecting to mention the toxic chemicals in kids' environment. There are reasons to keep clean other than germs.
25
Now that it is springtime, it is a good time to open the windows of your house and let some of nature inside. You may have to go work in a cubicle all day in a building where the windows don't open, but you don't have to do that at home.
16
Genetics, sanitation, or just dumb luck, who really knows? I know I have he allergies all of my life. The allergies to antibiotics are life threatening. I was always getting strep throat. My maternal genetic material donor was OCD along with a laundry list of other mental illnesses. My son on the other hand was not breastfeed, I needed my medications and shot, and he got dirty. He was sick 4 days in his first 22 years of life and that was due to chicken pox. My nieces and nephews were in a proverbial ultra clean bubble, their mom made mine look like Pig Pen. They were sick all the time and had bad allergies. Go figure. I do know I did not pass my allergies on to my son because I did not breastfeed him. I hope this goes for RA too. It really sucks to have a messed up immune system.
5
Adrenal and thyroid function, enter in adjusting the immune system to perform competently. If both parents do not have the exact same immune defect, offspring tend to be stronger. I inherited adrenal/immune problems was exposed to pesticide contamination, was told I was congenitally immune deficient, suffered several hundred infections before being told there was nothing more to be done. So abandoned conventional treatment, began to read widely and to work with supplements, diet, large doses of vitamin c, etc.--a naturopathic as well as biochemical approach. I was able to put the chronic hepatitis, and chronic fatigue in remission, stopped getting so many infections. One must become well-educated about these methods to apply them adequately, or find good doctors--preferably both. Dr. Majid Ali, NYC, who may seem odd but is an astute biochemist, and helps save many patients from a variety of"incurable" problems. One of his precepts is the prime role of gut culture, and gut condition, and liver function, have in forming foundational health. His perception is the body evolved centered on oxygen biochemistry, and that "oxygen homeostasis"-- balance--on the molecular level is need for health. Dr. Ali has multiple specialty degrees, taught for 26 years as an adjunct profess of medicine at Columbia University. He has never seen a RA patient without mold sensitivities. As a doctor and person he ain't easy, but is a rare genius who has saved my life and that of many others.
3
I would suggest a study of opposite end, as well: elderly and caretakers. There is little doubt in my mind that dear old (100) mom is passing something to me when it's my turn for an extended stay.
3
I am aware that studies have compared allergic tendencies of Amish children to other children raised in the US. But do those studies account for 1) genetic differences, and 2) natural selection against allergies/asthma within the Amish and possible relaxed selection within the rest of the US. Allergies are difficult to deal with and can be fatal, but they need not be. The rare individual with an anaphylactic reaction to peanuts 80 years ago may very well not have survived their second dose. S/he would have a better chance today.
Also, the protective effect of breastfeeding for allergies and asthma has been seriously questioned by newer research. If it exists it is probably very small.
Finally, while there is a lot of good evidence for the hygiene effect, it doesn't completely explain the rapid rise of allergies in the developing world where hygiene is less stringent than here. I suspect that increased risk of exposure and relaxed selection are part of the puzzle.
Also, the protective effect of breastfeeding for allergies and asthma has been seriously questioned by newer research. If it exists it is probably very small.
Finally, while there is a lot of good evidence for the hygiene effect, it doesn't completely explain the rapid rise of allergies in the developing world where hygiene is less stringent than here. I suspect that increased risk of exposure and relaxed selection are part of the puzzle.
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Have you seen this pacifier? https://doddleandco.com Being the founder of this company, I appreciate that the natural bacteria is able to stay on the nipple, protected, while not battling capet fuzz, hair and the multitude of other unsavory things that can adhere to a pacifier nipple after use. What are your thoughts?
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What a good idea! I have raised my children and the ones who took a pacifier aren't a whole lot different from the ones who sucked their thumbs.
I would have liked a pacifier that didn't pick up the greeblies from the carpet. Though I wiped the pacifier off on my shirt when it hit the floor, it is probably good to protect the nipple when it falls.
I raised four boys, two have allergies and two don't. My kids were exposed to a not-so-clean house when they were babies. We also had a dog and usually a cat in the house. The kids played outside a lot and were exposed to farm animals as well.
I think most allergy evidence is pretty much anecdotal these days. My opinion is that a little dirt never hurt any kid. And with this information, all the busy parents can feel better about letting the house go some. It will improve your mental health if nothing else.
I would have liked a pacifier that didn't pick up the greeblies from the carpet. Though I wiped the pacifier off on my shirt when it hit the floor, it is probably good to protect the nipple when it falls.
I raised four boys, two have allergies and two don't. My kids were exposed to a not-so-clean house when they were babies. We also had a dog and usually a cat in the house. The kids played outside a lot and were exposed to farm animals as well.
I think most allergy evidence is pretty much anecdotal these days. My opinion is that a little dirt never hurt any kid. And with this information, all the busy parents can feel better about letting the house go some. It will improve your mental health if nothing else.
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Remember that babies are really durable. As soon as they can pick things up, they go in their mouth. Yes, keep choking hazards and electric cords out of their reach (which can be impressive), but they can't yet ask what something is and there are lots of nerve endings in our mouths.
I grew up outside as much as inside. I remember picking ants off the sidewalk and eating them. I learned which tasted good and which tasted nasty. It was a city sidewalk. No pacifier, no thumb sucking, but lots of exploring. I survived.
Years ago, a study compared the health of sty-raised and lab-raised piglets. Those in the lab were anemic (I don't remember if the sow was anemic); those raised in the dirt were healthy. It was postulated the piglets got iron and such from the dirt. They were no more prone to illness.
Don't let babies get into cleaning fluids. Remember until the 1930s there were no antibiotics and it was after WWII that the public had access to penicillin. Before that, we fought off most infections. Vaccinations save lives, and are necessary.
Don't sweat the small stuff. Yes, the baby may give the dog a taste of a cookie. It's OK. Human mouths harbor nasty bacteria, but the dog will survive. Many of my schoolmates had eight or ten (or more) siblings. And pets. There's no way to keep floors sterile with all that coming and going.
Enjoy the babies. Don't worry so much. Feed them. Love them. Snuggle them. Relax.
I grew up outside as much as inside. I remember picking ants off the sidewalk and eating them. I learned which tasted good and which tasted nasty. It was a city sidewalk. No pacifier, no thumb sucking, but lots of exploring. I survived.
Years ago, a study compared the health of sty-raised and lab-raised piglets. Those in the lab were anemic (I don't remember if the sow was anemic); those raised in the dirt were healthy. It was postulated the piglets got iron and such from the dirt. They were no more prone to illness.
Don't let babies get into cleaning fluids. Remember until the 1930s there were no antibiotics and it was after WWII that the public had access to penicillin. Before that, we fought off most infections. Vaccinations save lives, and are necessary.
Don't sweat the small stuff. Yes, the baby may give the dog a taste of a cookie. It's OK. Human mouths harbor nasty bacteria, but the dog will survive. Many of my schoolmates had eight or ten (or more) siblings. And pets. There's no way to keep floors sterile with all that coming and going.
Enjoy the babies. Don't worry so much. Feed them. Love them. Snuggle them. Relax.
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Polio was a disease of clean upper and middle class children who were not exposed to the virus early in life such as FDR.
5
The chemical-laden products that a lot of people use to clean their houses are not healthy either. Almost anything in a home can be cleaned with some combination of basic dishwashing soap (no "antibacterial" soap), baking soda, and vinegar. If there is something that really needs to be disinfected use DILUTED bleach.
4
A Japanese scientist dr. Teruro Higa makes a product with what he calls effective micro-organisms for cleaning houses, and one for gut culture. He has written many interesting books.
I grew up in a messy, dusty house with pets, and I have a lot of allergies. Genes play a part, too. It's not all about the environment in which a kid is raised.
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Read veterinarian Dr. Al Plechner's book, "Pets at Risk" to learn what he saw about the genetic influence of adrenal and thyroid function and how it can be inherited and how it impacts immune function. He worked on 100,000 animals during his career and learned that what he saw in animals exists in people too. He developed a treatment protocol. He helped my cats who were dying of feline leukemia, which is virally stimulated, beat the virus with their own immune systems.
1
A situation that some parents face is the fact that they were told that a C section was not a choice for medical reasons, that breast feeding was physically impossible, and that well meaning doctors put their children on antibiotics for ear infections. Add the pneumonia at age one and a half and if the child is delayed, sickly or is on the spectrum, the guilt lasts forever. How do you change the makeup of the micro biome if the child refuses to eat because of sensory issues? A highly invasive, risky, and controversial fecal transplant? Maybe a pet can make a difference to move the health needle slightly in the correct direction.
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Fermentable fibers move the health needle in the correct direction. Resistant starch and inulin are the two leading fibers that are fermented by the gut microbiome (wheat bran, psyllium, cellulose are NOT). Both of these ingredients have >100 published clinical trials showing important health benefits. People eating unprocessed foods get ~30-40 grams of resistant starch/day but Americans get about 5 grams/day. Stephen O'Keefe from the Univ of Pittsburgh showed that if Americans ate this quantity of resistant starch, their microbiome significantly shifted and inflammation significantly reduced. (http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/ncomms7342)
In fact, in December, the FDA approved a qualified health claim that resistant starch reduces the risk of type 2 diabetes because it significantly improves insulin sensitivity, especially in prediabetics. Its fermentation in the gut improves the composition of the microbiome, and changes the expression of hundreds of genes within the intestinal tract - which changes the expression of genes all over the body. Some of these genes directly control insulin sensitivity and fat metabolism. See www.ResistantStarchResearch.com for more information.
In fact, in December, the FDA approved a qualified health claim that resistant starch reduces the risk of type 2 diabetes because it significantly improves insulin sensitivity, especially in prediabetics. Its fermentation in the gut improves the composition of the microbiome, and changes the expression of hundreds of genes within the intestinal tract - which changes the expression of genes all over the body. Some of these genes directly control insulin sensitivity and fat metabolism. See www.ResistantStarchResearch.com for more information.
1
Dr. Majid Ali , NYC, is the doctor who understands and is competent to work on such issues. He has a lot of free videos on Vimeo, and sells longer ones on various subjects. See him before resorting to things like fecal transplants.
Am I misinterpreting this from the article. or is there an error in the composition?
"... unpasteurized milk has played a major role in reducing infant and child mortality "
"... unpasteurized milk has played a major role in reducing infant and child mortality "
It's a long sentence, but it supports pasteurizing milk. Of course, if you enjoy tuberculosis, drink it raw!
I'm not sure germs would want to live in 2% or 1% milk, but it's possible. I don't drink much milk, but I use real cream and butter.
I'm not sure germs would want to live in 2% or 1% milk, but it's possible. I don't drink much milk, but I use real cream and butter.
3
You misread the sentence. "Scrupulously separating children from the microbes that can be found in ... unpasteurized milk has played a major role in reducing infant and child mortality, enabling millions of children to live and thrive.
4
G.S. : "... separating children from the microbes ... has played a major role in reducing infant and child mortality."
My friend used to boil the pacifier when if fell out of her kid's mouth until she watch the kid immediately pop it out, rub it on the carpet (they had a dog) and put it back in her mouth. The mom joked that the pacifier was missing flavor.
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It would be interesting to follow this through family size and birth order. I imagine that the effort and energy directed towards hyper-fastidiousness is exhausted by the arrival of the third child.
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I was just wondering somewhat the opposite - as a first born I lived in a small, older house. When my little brother came along, we had more money and moved into a new built home that was only two years old by the time of his birth. He has many allergies and I have almost none.
2
Oh that's why my allergies are worse than my siblings' allergies!
No, look at adrenal and thyroid function, diet, stress, and other factors.
I write this same comment every time this discussion comes up.
I totally buy this argument as far as germs are concerned. But urban dirt sometimes contains a lot of lead. In fact, rural dirt sometimes contains a lot of lead too. I know a kid who got lead poisoning playing in the dirt around her rural home.
Please test for lead before letting kids play in the dirt and on the floors of old homes!
I totally buy this argument as far as germs are concerned. But urban dirt sometimes contains a lot of lead. In fact, rural dirt sometimes contains a lot of lead too. I know a kid who got lead poisoning playing in the dirt around her rural home.
Please test for lead before letting kids play in the dirt and on the floors of old homes!
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Yes!!! I post the same comment, too! As somebody who grew up on a farm (and healthy!) I was sad that my suburban kids would have no access to rural areas. I got them the best I could - a house with a big back yard, and a pet. But being that we're right next to a large city, I also had our backyard soil tested for lead. It was classified at a call-the-EPA-now level of contamination! As in, children and pregnant women should not touch or breathe this soil level of contamination! We were shocked and had to spend a lot of our savings on a remodeling project to cover up the yard with clean, new soil and build a new lawn, before we had kids. I now look around at our neighbors with kids and wonder how many of them thought to test their soil. How many of them took our recommendation to do so. And how many are raising their kids in that dirt, thinking they're doing them a favor, but instead loading them up with lead.
So yes, dirt is good, but not all dirt is the same. We have ruined a lot of it. So test before you let your kids play in it!
So yes, dirt is good, but not all dirt is the same. We have ruined a lot of it. So test before you let your kids play in it!
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DH: that is so similar to my story -- we tested the soil around our suburban house and found shockingly high levels of lead. For us too, it too a lot of money (and anxiety) before I felt safe letting the kids out the back door!
We tell other parents about this, and nobody wants to worry about it. I don't get it: parents worry about some really marginal safety concerns, and this one is staring us right in the face.
We tell other parents about this, and nobody wants to worry about it. I don't get it: parents worry about some really marginal safety concerns, and this one is staring us right in the face.
4
But we never used to live in environments where there are leaf blowers, weed whackers, and other things that stir up the dust and pollen the way these things do. I don't disagree with what the article says but I've noticed that when I'm in an area where someone is using a leaf blower or a weed whacker I'm much more likely to wind up with an allergy attack. Those machines add more to my misery than a bad pollen day.
29
Really? Heard of plowing, reaping, winnowing, burning stubble and rubbish. . .
3
Not everybody was exposed to those things, or to the chemical overload which is in all of our bodies now.
1
A Tale of Two Mothers
My mother was fastidiously clean when she raised her two children. She boiled our bottles, teethers and toys. She made everyone who cared for us disinfect their hands with alcohol. Our sheets were regularly changed and disinfected with Lysol. We didn't have pets because my sister's neonatologist gave my mother a stern warning not to have pets around her kids. Mom brought us to the pediatrician at the slightest hint of a cold or fever. Our pediatrician, in turn, regularly gave us doses of antibiotics for suspected bacterial infections. My sister grew up always sick despite the cleanliness rituals my mother had us and our caregivers go through and the frequent trips to the doctor. We always had tonsilitis, ear infections, bouts of asthma, and nasal and skin allergies.
On the other hand, I had cousins whose mother did not bother to boil their baby bottles or toys and who allowed them to roll in dirt, wallow in mud, and play with dirty canal water. They ate food that were dropped on the ground. They used dirty sheets and pillowcases at home. They had several dogs whom they freely played with as kids. My mother sneered at the unhygienic practices of her cousin. But hey, her kids grew up pretty sturdy. They were seldom sick and didn't have the allergies my sister and I had.
We are living confirmation of the findings of Dr. Jack Gilbert.
My mother was fastidiously clean when she raised her two children. She boiled our bottles, teethers and toys. She made everyone who cared for us disinfect their hands with alcohol. Our sheets were regularly changed and disinfected with Lysol. We didn't have pets because my sister's neonatologist gave my mother a stern warning not to have pets around her kids. Mom brought us to the pediatrician at the slightest hint of a cold or fever. Our pediatrician, in turn, regularly gave us doses of antibiotics for suspected bacterial infections. My sister grew up always sick despite the cleanliness rituals my mother had us and our caregivers go through and the frequent trips to the doctor. We always had tonsilitis, ear infections, bouts of asthma, and nasal and skin allergies.
On the other hand, I had cousins whose mother did not bother to boil their baby bottles or toys and who allowed them to roll in dirt, wallow in mud, and play with dirty canal water. They ate food that were dropped on the ground. They used dirty sheets and pillowcases at home. They had several dogs whom they freely played with as kids. My mother sneered at the unhygienic practices of her cousin. But hey, her kids grew up pretty sturdy. They were seldom sick and didn't have the allergies my sister and I had.
We are living confirmation of the findings of Dr. Jack Gilbert.
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I grew up in a house full of allergens, and I have a lot of allergies. This isn't so cut and dried.
20
However the genetic inheritance could also be quite different. This is not so simple, there are multiple factors involved, including genetic inheritance and diet.
2
Want to expose your kids to wide varieties of bacteria to stimulate the old immune system?
Get them a pet--or better, several. Particularly furry ones. Interacting with those will help promote immune health. Not to mention all the other benefits that accrue from having to interact with other living things that don't speak and need to be cared for.
Get them a pet--or better, several. Particularly furry ones. Interacting with those will help promote immune health. Not to mention all the other benefits that accrue from having to interact with other living things that don't speak and need to be cared for.
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What???? Cleanliness ISN'T next to Godliness??? I am shocked, shocked!!! Just think of the generations of parents who struggled mightily to scrub their homes until they were more sanitary than operating rooms. Just think of all those advertisers who made a fortune selling products guaranteed to wipe out every germ within a 3 mile radius!!! What next?? Dogs cohabitatiing with cats? The very foundations of society are shaking!!
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