Sure, of course it is exactly like the Cuban MIssile crises. Except of a few things. North Korea is not a global superpower. We have no reason to believe that North Korea has nuclear capability, much less the ability to attach a nuclear warhead to an ICBM. And if they do have that capability certainly the blame rests on the shoulders of the Obama Administration. One last thing. North Korea is not a mere 90 miles from US sovriegn territory.
Kim Jong-Un is a bully who is trying to blackmail the world for concessions to make sure his regime will survive, with his rockets and nuclear weapons. The best way to deal with bullies is to ignore them, and don't give them the satisfaction of a response. Let him shoot off rockets and do nuclear tests that doesn't hurt anyone outside of his pathetic country. He will never compromise on his weapons or his regime, so negotiations are pointless.
Kim knows that if he dares attack first, and hit South Korea, Japan or the US and civilians die, his country will be annihilated. Even if he survives in his bunker, his reign will be over, or he can reign a wasteland with dead people.
Trump is actually right in one thing: China should do more to try to reign him in.
The US has to make sure that South Korea and Japan are defended as best we can with a missile shield or Patriot rockets, in case he tries to attack first (and then it's clear who is to blame). For the rest we should leave the bully alone.
Kim knows that if he dares attack first, and hit South Korea, Japan or the US and civilians die, his country will be annihilated. Even if he survives in his bunker, his reign will be over, or he can reign a wasteland with dead people.
Trump is actually right in one thing: China should do more to try to reign him in.
The US has to make sure that South Korea and Japan are defended as best we can with a missile shield or Patriot rockets, in case he tries to attack first (and then it's clear who is to blame). For the rest we should leave the bully alone.
1
We are getting close to war. All American citizens, Democratic and Republican, need to rally together in support of our Commander In Chief.
There are two very significant difference between the Cuban missile crisis and the current conflict with North Korea. The first is the Cuba is a mere 90 miles from the United States, so President Kennedy's concern about emplacement of nuclear weapons there was urgent and immediate. North Korea is more than 6000 air miles from the US. Second, and even more significant, in John F. Kennedy and Nikita Khrushchev, the United States and the Soviet Union were both led by mentally stable human beings. With Donald Trump and Kim Jong Un, the exact opposite is the case in the current situation. We are in grave danger.
3
NK has nukes today, but insufficient delivery systems to neutralize the US deterrent. Within five years they may achieve global nuke capability and threaten our cities, neutering our defenses. Within a short time after obtaining global nuke capability NK will provide it to Iran, and similar. We can continue to kick the can like Clinton, Bush, and Obama, which is a conditional vote for ultimate submission and capitulation to NK.
Trump is trying to leverage China's desire for regional stability into compelling sanctions against NK. Good diplomatic initiative, but unlikely to get results, even if China is earnest, because of the regime threat to Kim Jong Un. US and China must cooperate as a first principle, with US insisting.
This probably requires a regional military solution led by US with SK, Japan active, and China on stand ready, to control outcomes in the aftermath. No US boots on ground. SK cannot unify with NK under their rule, but instead must concentrate on protecting 10mm people in their capital.
Not suitable to a lead from behind approach...
Trump is trying to leverage China's desire for regional stability into compelling sanctions against NK. Good diplomatic initiative, but unlikely to get results, even if China is earnest, because of the regime threat to Kim Jong Un. US and China must cooperate as a first principle, with US insisting.
This probably requires a regional military solution led by US with SK, Japan active, and China on stand ready, to control outcomes in the aftermath. No US boots on ground. SK cannot unify with NK under their rule, but instead must concentrate on protecting 10mm people in their capital.
Not suitable to a lead from behind approach...
Rather than argue over sanctions, I hope China's
military occupies North Korea and guarantees its
security. All of North Korea's nuclear weapons and
missiles would be guarded by the Chinese, and in return,
all sanctions should be lifted.
military occupies North Korea and guarantees its
security. All of North Korea's nuclear weapons and
missiles would be guarded by the Chinese, and in return,
all sanctions should be lifted.
1
First, Trump isn't the president I trust to start a war in Korea for any reason. I don't trust his abilities or those of his administration. I also agree with an op-ed from the Chicago Tribune this week. "We should cut South Korea lose", and bring our troops there and on Okinawa and Guam home. We have inter-continental ballistic missiles to punish North Korea at arms length for attacking our allies. And our allies are able to afford their own defense now. If there is going to be a war in Korea we should not be involved in instigating it. Too many innocents will die and whatever happens we, the USA, will be blamed for the war, especially if Korea and Japan are targeted in a nuclear war. If and when North Korea succeeds in mounting missile-sized weapons on intercontinental missiles then the president of the United States working with Japan and South Korea can look at the options. That seems at least ten years away. And never start a war that can terribly wrong when you don't need to.
1
The Russians were in control of the missiles in Cuba, not Castro, so the analogy is a poor one. The Chinese have allowed the situation to get beyond their control and it will have bad consequences for them regardless of what happens. It seems almost certain that Japan and South Korea will develop their own nuclear weapons to counter North Korea, although they won't admit it until they are in place.
2
At least there were a stalemates in the areas of the world that could ignite into WW3 prior to Trump taking over the country. Now we are on the verge of nuclear war on two fronts. Sad.
1
Big bomb had been tried many years ago. Carpet bombing was no use. Result is Vietnam's loss and ran like no tomorrow. Agent orange, Naphang or any other weapon did not win war now.
You embarrassed Norma Desmond on that one.
The Clutching of Pearls should become an Olympic sport.
The Clutching of Pearls should become an Olympic sport.
Not only is not so easy as Trump thinks, it's not what he thinks, or, rather, what he fabricates as the truth of the matter.
Unfortunately, Trump is nearly 71 years old. His life has been one of believing that what he said is true, is true. He's not going to change now, even in moments like this when one might be tempted to mistake his statement, “After listening for 10 minutes, I realized it’s not so easy,” he said. “It’s not what you would think…” to mean that he finally perceives that there are truths.
He doesn’t. Donald Trump is literally incapable of understanding the difference between lying a life and accepting as truth events and facts as others understand them and represent them.
This president is as likely to assure us in the aftermath of a war he’s started in Korea that “…it’s not so easy, it’s not what you think,” as if the rest of the world couldn’t already know that because Trump hadn’t consented yet to that hard fact of existence.
Unfortunately, Trump is nearly 71 years old. His life has been one of believing that what he said is true, is true. He's not going to change now, even in moments like this when one might be tempted to mistake his statement, “After listening for 10 minutes, I realized it’s not so easy,” he said. “It’s not what you would think…” to mean that he finally perceives that there are truths.
He doesn’t. Donald Trump is literally incapable of understanding the difference between lying a life and accepting as truth events and facts as others understand them and represent them.
This president is as likely to assure us in the aftermath of a war he’s started in Korea that “…it’s not so easy, it’s not what you think,” as if the rest of the world couldn’t already know that because Trump hadn’t consented yet to that hard fact of existence.
1
Since the advent of nuclear weapons in the 1950's, a key factor preventing their use has been the threat of massive retaliation in kind. It was (and still is) understood that a "first strike" nuclear attack will be met with overwhelming, catastrophic force.
So what has changed? We have a president in the United States who disregards the destructive power of nuclear weapons. He has said, idiotically, "why do we have nuclear weapons if we can't use them?"
Used in volume and full force, nuclear weapons could effectively switch off the lights of the world forever, or at least for millions of years as geologic time is measured.
President Trump's careless, disrespectful and blasé attitude towards nuclear weapons, wars, conflict, and life and death in general poses a grave risk to our nation. North Korea is fundamentally a weak state and with no direct threat to the United States.
Launching a nuclear attack isn't like sending an angry Twitter message in the middle of the night. Let's hope that Trump can figure out the difference.
So what has changed? We have a president in the United States who disregards the destructive power of nuclear weapons. He has said, idiotically, "why do we have nuclear weapons if we can't use them?"
Used in volume and full force, nuclear weapons could effectively switch off the lights of the world forever, or at least for millions of years as geologic time is measured.
President Trump's careless, disrespectful and blasé attitude towards nuclear weapons, wars, conflict, and life and death in general poses a grave risk to our nation. North Korea is fundamentally a weak state and with no direct threat to the United States.
Launching a nuclear attack isn't like sending an angry Twitter message in the middle of the night. Let's hope that Trump can figure out the difference.
6
It would appear, reading between the lines and considering the available evidence, that the US military have an effective EMP weapon able to wreck North Korean rocket launches into the sea of Japan. Possibly, sub-deployable systems exist; on detecting a launch, the radar triggers an EMP burst from a mast-deployed, single-discharge transmitter.
1
the comparison of the Cuban Missile Crisis to today's non-confrontation with North Korea could use some uncomfortable expanding. It was not an example of Mutual Assured Destruction (MAD) and therefore unthinkable as "statesmen" would take control and avoid a disaster. There were so many moving parts any one of which could percipitate a nuclear war including shooting down of a U-2 over Cuba, another lost U-2 that drifted over the Soviet Union, and the rush by the soviets to finish installing their missiles and present the Americans with a fait accompli. As to a calm and measured White House, I refer you to the SAC Commander's off quoted statement to the President, "Bomb 'em, bomb 'em, bomb'em! We'll take 70 million casualties but we'll win!" To relieve the tension, Kennedy still had his pimps supplying him with women during the 13 days of the crisis (Jackie was away). Not to mention Fidel's goading of Khruschev (mostly his manhood) to start a war. For the best book on the crisis see Michael Dobbs' "One Minute to Midnight". We dodged a bullet!
JD
JD
Seems it would be better to keep it from becoming an a Cuban like Korean Missile crisis.
1
Seems the question is how far do the world powers let this progress? Until warheads are fitted on capable ICBMs targeting American cities? Until a massive preemptive nuclear strike becomes the only viable option?
Kennedy did not wait for the Soviets to bring their plans concerning Cuba to fruition before drawing the line in the sand.
Kennedy did not wait for the Soviets to bring their plans concerning Cuba to fruition before drawing the line in the sand.
1
President Trump is no JFK and Kim is on a lower evolutionary intellectual scale than Kruschev. JFK was an enlightened warrior :an erudite, a student of history, a master of diplomacy and politics. He knew very well his military circle were eager to confront the USSR with a preemptive strike on Cuba. But it was Kennedy's cool head, demeanor and quite diplomacy that the ended the crisis. Conversely, President Trump is tempered by his enlightened military advisors who have seen the cost and carnage of 15 years of perpetual warfare. Kim is dangerous, irrational and delusional; when isolated from the modern world; ensconced and surrounded by military leaders who provide misinformation about his arsenals's capabilities, Kim may act upon his delusional capabilities. However, he does have a standing army of one million; ready and trained to fight and die for their skewed ideology! The US must not get involved in another war; the beneficiaries would be China, Iran and Russia; each would welcome the over commitment and the further weakening of US deterrence as the US would be then involved in a three front war.
2
I'm gonna go out on a limb here, but there could be a possibility that 45 teams up with Dennis Rodman to navigate these choppy waters w/Lil' Kim. God help us all.
4
The U.S. really can't be expected to sit back and be repeatedly threatened by NK. We don't have to take that kind of behavior. And no real superpower is likely to back a NK that repeatedly threatens all of its neighbors as well as us. The question is whether NK is a credible threat or just dud bottle-rocket goofs. But regardless, they very very much want us as well as the world to believe that they are real. They try much harder, then they're actually going to convince us, to their very real detriment. Preemptive strikes can be legitimate.
Nuclear weapons, from a North Korean point of view, will enable poor developing nations to defend themselves against what they perceive as expansive empires. It matters little that Trump does not view the Koreans as the proverbial Native American tribes and our military as cowboys. That is the view of both China and Kim Jong-un. And the view is not grounds for optimism that this crisis can be resolved by brinksmanship.
1
North Korea is a deeply traumatized nation. It was occupied and annexed by imperial Japan during the first half of the last century; Japan even attempted to destroy their culture in a push for assimilation. Korea was divided in two when Russia declared war on Japan during WWII, with Russia invading the north and us invading the south to ostensibly block the advance of communism. When the North invaded the South, North Korea was bombed and napalmed by us almost out of existence. Towards the end, many of our warplanes were dumping their bombs in the ocean for lack of worthy targets, and Koreans were digging holes in the ground for shelter. Millions of lives were lost. It is not surprising that they should hate us. If foreign powers had done that to us in the name of containing democracy or capitalism, we would be equally traumatized.
My point is that this is not Cuba, and the cold war is likewise over. It is time for stability and reconciliation. Our military deterrence should be accompanied by every effort to persuade North Korea that times have changed. Since we don’t have any credibility with them, it is up to China to practice psychiatry with both Kim and Donald.
My point is that this is not Cuba, and the cold war is likewise over. It is time for stability and reconciliation. Our military deterrence should be accompanied by every effort to persuade North Korea that times have changed. Since we don’t have any credibility with them, it is up to China to practice psychiatry with both Kim and Donald.
5
Mr. Kim stood for hours as so many missiles rolled by on Saturday, carried on portable launch vehicles that can be hidden in hundreds of tunnels bored into North Korean mountains.
Seems we missed our chance by not bombing the parade. (crowd boos)
Seems we missed our chance by not bombing the parade. (crowd boos)
1
Qaddafi may have given up his nuke program but it was his talk of going to a common currency with Africa that was his undoing. Ironically Hussein wanted to go off the Oil Dollar also. That is a no-no. Yet Kuwait did it after they were liberated.
He isn't going to "deal with" this situation any more than he's going to jail Hillary Clinton. Or impose import tariffs. Or bring jobs back to the Rust Belt. Or repeal and replace Obamacare. Or put WV coal miners back to work. It is just "The Trump Show".
Start paying attention when there are large quantities of money involved that can be diverted directly to "Family" coffers.
Calm down, folks. It is just that "The Apprentice" is now running 24/7.
I heard that the Democratic strategy for 2020 is "Family Feud".
Start paying attention when there are large quantities of money involved that can be diverted directly to "Family" coffers.
Calm down, folks. It is just that "The Apprentice" is now running 24/7.
I heard that the Democratic strategy for 2020 is "Family Feud".
2
A United States President needs to convince Congress and the American people that North Korea is a military threat to us before attacking it. So far, the Trump administration has not even made as strong a case as flawed as George Bush for his Iraqi invasion. Now, Trump's embittered domestic political adversaries, as well as some of our alleged international allies, could well hawkishly encourage him to fight a war resulting in massive American and Korean casualties. In that mindset ("If a war's what it takes to get rid of Trump, so....") there's no telling the lengths Trump's adversaries will go in order to end his term of office.
How real is the danger of missiles hitting the US mainland? The people need an honest assessment BEFORE we go shooting from the hip instead of the mouth. It's easy to drop bombs and use predators when the threat is far away, which is basically our policy since Rumsfeld. But when it's not just Japan, China, and South Korea with a stoke in the fire we all better be prepared for the worst after shots are fired.
“After listening for 10 minutes, I realized it’s not so easy,” he said. “It’s not what you would think.”
No, it's not what you thought, Mister President, but most people know more than you do and are not surprised by your putative realization that you are not equipped for the tasks of the presidency.
No, it's not what you thought, Mister President, but most people know more than you do and are not surprised by your putative realization that you are not equipped for the tasks of the presidency.
4
The comparison to the Cuban missile crisis is scary. I am reminded of the quote attributed to President Kennedy that what worried him most during the missile crisis was not the actions of big men with self-control and restraint, but by little men — the ones moved by fear and pride. Yikes! That description applies to both the North Korean and American leaders. I can think of no better example than our president of a little man driven by pride and ego. Hopefully, the Chinese leader can give more 10-minute tutorials to the Great Deal Maker.
2
Only somebody who did not live through the Cuban missile crisis would attempt to equate these two vastly different events. There is not enough space here to delineate the major geopolitical difference in the two events but as a single example, the Russians were caught deploying several dozen fully tested and operational IRBMs (Intermediate Range Ballistic Missiles), each of which could deliver a 3MT thermonuclear warhead to targets across the US with 5-10 minutes flying time. They had also deployed FROG tactical nuclear weapons for use in the event the U.S. attempted an invasion of Cuba. Quite a difference from a wacko despot in Korea who doesn't have a single operational missile that threatens us and whose largest nuclear test to date has a fission only device with a yield under 30KT - about the size of the Nagasaki atomic bomb.
I mean really, everybody on the planet knows that the NYT will never pass up any opportunity to trash President Trump but attempting this kind of absurd juxtaposition of events is not going to do anything but damage the NYT's credibility.
I mean really, everybody on the planet knows that the NYT will never pass up any opportunity to trash President Trump but attempting this kind of absurd juxtaposition of events is not going to do anything but damage the NYT's credibility.
6
Read about the destruction wrought at Hiroshima and Nagasaki before daring to imply that they were small weapons. Don't be flippant. Yes, there are more destructive weapons today, but one must realize that a 30 kiloton weapon can inflict horrific damage.
2
If you don't think we are doomed, I have some land to sell you.
2
Only interested if the land is in a red state or far away from blue cities because that is where Kim's missiles will be targeted if he gets his way.
Good article! There is ZERO comparison of any substance between the Cuban Missile Crisis - a standoff between two global nuclear powers, and the latest tantrum from the Hermit Kingdom. For the DPRK, there is no upside whatsoever for them in miscalculating. If they attack us, South Korea or Japan, their military would be utterly destroyed, likely by conventional means. This would result in the collapse of the regime, a few million refugees into China and a local catastrophe for the north Korean people. Nobody wants that to happen...least of all China. In fact, they have no good choices - war, peaceful reunification or continued famine and confrontation. Only the begrudging tolerance of the rest of the world over the last few decades has them thinking they can gain additional concessions. Trump has taken a new tact with China and that appears to be making the difference this time. China desperately needs our markets (the middle class consumers are restless), is terrified of a rearming Japan and so finally might actually have grown tired of Kim Jong Un and company, however useful it was to have him ranting and distracting the west. Any alternative short of the status quo is bad news for Kim and his equally nutcase military leadership. They would either be dead or out of a job. This article is well done, but there are a few things we have that can solve the "buried deep in the ground/quick strike" capability the DPRK possesses.
2
Maybe humanity is condemned to be perversed. Haven't we learnt anything from the previous wars? North Korea, as many other countries, is still in the time where they have to show who the greatest is, but this kind of attitude is really unpractical for good relationships between nations. There are more important things, as an economical strong system in coordination with other coutries, not provocation for war.
But that doesn't change the fact that US must be careful about its instinct to get into every second country. I would not be surprised if Trump made some unespected decision, as he has already made some.
But that doesn't change the fact that US must be careful about its instinct to get into every second country. I would not be surprised if Trump made some unespected decision, as he has already made some.
Reading this article reminded me of a course I took in college about executive level decision making. (Back in the Parchment Era when paper roamed the typical college campus.) The Essence of Decision by Graham Allison, about the Cuban missle crises, was required reading. It provided a critique about how JFK arrived at a series of well thought out decisions, focused on eliminating as many areas of uncertainty as possible, in order to avoid a nuclear catastrophe. Any chance of a informed decion making approach being applied by our current leader as it relates to Korea is remote at best.
1
John F. Kenney and his brother Bobby did not give the decision to the military to find a solution to the dangerous situation that Russia set up in Cuba with their nuclear missle shipment and set up in Cuba. The military wanted to take action and had we let them it would have catastrophic. Today, we are dealing with an unstable, President who has no knowledge of international relations or the ability to maintain any kind of balance. Kim Jon is a perfect foil to provoke Donald Trump whose need for attention and winning is the opposite of what is needed regarding the Nortr Korean leader.
JFK certainly did utilize the military to send the message to the Soviets that Cuba was hands off. So far Trump's approach seems to have borne more fruit than the efforts of his predecessors. At least the Chinese now seem to be paying attention.
“to take action, short of armed conflict, so we can avoid the worst”
But the elephant in the room is, there seems to be no plausible path for avoiding the worst, short of armed conflict. North Korea is determined to develop nuclear-capable intercontinental missiles. Does anyone see a realistic way they can be stopped short of armed conflict? Or does armed conflict seem worse to some than allowing North Korea to be able to annihilate U.S. cities?
But the elephant in the room is, there seems to be no plausible path for avoiding the worst, short of armed conflict. North Korea is determined to develop nuclear-capable intercontinental missiles. Does anyone see a realistic way they can be stopped short of armed conflict? Or does armed conflict seem worse to some than allowing North Korea to be able to annihilate U.S. cities?
2
I'm an ex-Naval Intelligence Officer. There are no military "easy buttons" for North Korea. Draft dodgers Trump and Pence are simply pushing "weapons of mass distraction". We are days away from a government shut down due to disagreements on the budget and Pence is getting photo ops on DMZ while Trump golfs at Mar-a-Lago. The real crisis is in Congress and its inability to pass a budget funding the federal government.
9
trump is not given credit for being able to adjust on the fly. even those who understand sports - the idea of matchups and adjustments as crucial to winning - don't understand that "policy" is ridiculous if you want to win.
3
Oh. So you really think Trump did anything besides follow someone else's orders on North Korea?
Here's the news: He has no strategy. He has no policy.
Here's the news: He has no strategy. He has no policy.
4
Having no policy is like having no idea about what you'll do. Bill Belichik begins each game with one or more plans. He often adapts, but he never goes in blind, as tbs evidently would have him do. Incidentally, his policy (plans) has been a bigbwinner.
Hearst is smiling down on Sanger and Broad but I feel this patently ridiculous headline is grounds for dismissal. The N. Korean GNP is just over 1/10000 of one percent of the US gnp. The entire GNP of the country does not even equal 2 modern aircraft carriers. This is the mouse that roared and should be treated as such. But maybe this is just about selling newspapers and meeting deadlines. So ridiculous and makes the times look like some useless 'fake news' outlet.
3
Please. No more Cold War hysteria. This isn't the Cuban missile crisis in slow motion, stop action or 3D. The old Soviet Union could have wiped us out. Not so with the Bond-like villain in North Korea. No need to always have an Enemy.
1
Have you actually taken the time to look at the parade photos -- or done any research on Kim Jong-un???
This is no dog-and-pony show.
This is no dog-and-pony show.
1
I'm sorry to hear that Kim Jong-un is keeping you up at night. I suppose a careful examination of the parade photos is a good way to spend those sleepless hours. Please advise us on the size and scope of the North Korean menace as soon as possible.
It is time to finally sit down with North Korea and negotiate a peace treaty and end the Korean War. There is really no other solution.
I don't think that many people understand how profoundly hostile to Americans North Koreans really happen to be. They hate Americans as if they are still at war with America. In addition, they live in a state where no person is not expendable and they all know it. If their leaders decide to go to war, the people expect to die and know that they will be expected to take a lot of people with them to their graves.
For all the fear of a live destroying nuclear exchange back in 1962, neither side was willing to start a nuclear exchange and sought ways to keep face while not going to war. Kim thinks that having the same ability to engage in a nuclear exchange will give him protection against a conventional attack as well as from a nuclear attack. If a build up of forces occurs and Kim fears an attack, he may believe that he must attack with nuclear weapons to deter an attack, and begin the escalation that leads to a full nuclear exchange. Korea will not hit the U.S. but it will destroy South Korea and probably devastate areas of Japan. That force the U.S. to preemptively destroy North Korea. Then China will invade Korea to maintain it's buffer along that stretch. If the U.S. nukes Chinese forces, China will nuke U.S. forces... The key is to keep North Korea talking and not shooting.
For all the fear of a live destroying nuclear exchange back in 1962, neither side was willing to start a nuclear exchange and sought ways to keep face while not going to war. Kim thinks that having the same ability to engage in a nuclear exchange will give him protection against a conventional attack as well as from a nuclear attack. If a build up of forces occurs and Kim fears an attack, he may believe that he must attack with nuclear weapons to deter an attack, and begin the escalation that leads to a full nuclear exchange. Korea will not hit the U.S. but it will destroy South Korea and probably devastate areas of Japan. That force the U.S. to preemptively destroy North Korea. Then China will invade Korea to maintain it's buffer along that stretch. If the U.S. nukes Chinese forces, China will nuke U.S. forces... The key is to keep North Korea talking and not shooting.
1
This president's failure to listen could be the death of us all. It took just 10 minutes with China's president to convince him that he perhaps had an inadequate grasp of North Korea's history, positions, and attitudes? Yes, because he didn't listen to anyone before then, or didn't bother toknow any facts before shooting off his mouth. He is an arrogant fool and we are stuck with him.
3
There is always the option of a strike targeted at N. Korea's leadership - all of them.
The crisis is real, but not related to North Korea. They're only the latest "straw", laid on the Trump camel's very weak back.
Donald Trump campaigned on promises to keep America out of "other people's problems" and foreign conflicts. He's already reneged -- and gotten himself involved in "many people's problems".
Trump attacked Syria, with no effect. The chemical weapons disappeared from the airbase he bombed, and Assad still has them to use in the future. Trump showed his impotence on the foreign stage.
Next came China. Trump's meeting with President Xi was hardly mentioned in U.S. media, but was widely discussed in Chinese and other media. Trump was presented as a war-mongering newcomer, who tried to embarrass Xi by launching bombs behind his back, as they ate dessert.
Russia was also a fiasco, with Trump sparring with too many words. He only highlighted his conflicting behavior. Did he indeed argue with Russia, or did he just continue a ruse... to fool people into thinking he was "against" Russia. The fact is, he took no action against Russia. Actions speak louder than words.
Then we had the "mother of all bombs" dropped in a corner of Afghanistan, with no effect. Just a show, for Reality TV Trump.
And now we have North Korea. Red-faced Trump is ready to bomb them. But North Korea doesn't care if they're bombed. They can hurt our allies, and us. Trump is badly outwitted.
No "Cuban Missile Crisis" here, but a crisis, where Trump is in, way over his head.
Donald Trump campaigned on promises to keep America out of "other people's problems" and foreign conflicts. He's already reneged -- and gotten himself involved in "many people's problems".
Trump attacked Syria, with no effect. The chemical weapons disappeared from the airbase he bombed, and Assad still has them to use in the future. Trump showed his impotence on the foreign stage.
Next came China. Trump's meeting with President Xi was hardly mentioned in U.S. media, but was widely discussed in Chinese and other media. Trump was presented as a war-mongering newcomer, who tried to embarrass Xi by launching bombs behind his back, as they ate dessert.
Russia was also a fiasco, with Trump sparring with too many words. He only highlighted his conflicting behavior. Did he indeed argue with Russia, or did he just continue a ruse... to fool people into thinking he was "against" Russia. The fact is, he took no action against Russia. Actions speak louder than words.
Then we had the "mother of all bombs" dropped in a corner of Afghanistan, with no effect. Just a show, for Reality TV Trump.
And now we have North Korea. Red-faced Trump is ready to bomb them. But North Korea doesn't care if they're bombed. They can hurt our allies, and us. Trump is badly outwitted.
No "Cuban Missile Crisis" here, but a crisis, where Trump is in, way over his head.
2
This is a manufactured "crisis". North Korea is never going to launch a first strike on the US. The sabre rattling is just ludicrous and it's embarrassing that the Times aids and abets it.
3
Over the past eight years the most enlightened and statespersons in the history of the USA, nay, the history of the World! have taken their swing at solving the NK problem. This stellar list includes Jacques Kerry, Hillary Rodham Clinton, and the Nobel peace prize winning American president, Barack H Obama. The problem has festered during that time, and could not have grown much worse. Here we are on the brink of a nuclear disaster, and the only issue anyone on this portal wants to write about is Donald Trump. Give me a break. This is exactly like Obamacare, a giant mess that he left for someone else to clean up.
2
Ivanka and Jared : war is good for the economy: invest your children . Or see if you can get Trump to be the peace proponent
1
As the Interpreter clearly showed in today's nytimes, there are no real military options.
But there might be another way: North Korea must change itself from inside. The North Korean people must do it.
How? Through the softening of a better life. Means: lift sanctions, let western products "spoil" the society. And with growing consumption people usually not only change their household situation but also their state of mind. China is an example. So make North Korea soft through a lift of sanctions. And the forever-pre-war state will vanish (with the vanishing of the outside "enemy")
But there might be another way: North Korea must change itself from inside. The North Korean people must do it.
How? Through the softening of a better life. Means: lift sanctions, let western products "spoil" the society. And with growing consumption people usually not only change their household situation but also their state of mind. China is an example. So make North Korea soft through a lift of sanctions. And the forever-pre-war state will vanish (with the vanishing of the outside "enemy")
1
The pervasive brainwashing, over three generations, has made North Korea a poor potential for "spoiling". That won't happen, not with the tight controls on domestic goods distribution from Pyongyang. The upper strata of party officials and their families would take all they could, and "bank" the rest, rather than provide goods to the people of the country. The head must be removed for any real, positive change to occur. That is unlikely, however logical. China is in a position to exert the correct pressure, but they are alone, and protecting their own borders comes first.
1
Actually, Oliver's point is quite valid. Did you know that NK already has hundreds of black markets across the country and their gov't can't do anything about them? Otherwise, the economy will just collapse outright. Did you know that NK people watch S.Korean dramas and movies despite heavy prosecution if caught? NK is not so isolated or mystical as the typical Western media depicts it to be. The money is mightier than the sword. I hope that policy makers and politicians finally start to think outside the box to solve this problem.
2
Have heard so many talking heads say that this foreign policy tack is totally contrary to Trump's campaign promise of "America First." They couldn't have it more wrong. First there is keeping Americans safe. Tinpot despots with nuclear capability does not make for a safe America.
A strong America is a safe country. It also makes for a safer world. Sixty-ish years of negotiating with a few generations of NK leaders has done nothing but embolden them. That needs to end.
A strong America is a safe country. It also makes for a safer world. Sixty-ish years of negotiating with a few generations of NK leaders has done nothing but embolden them. That needs to end.
2
There is more truth to the reporter's comparison to the Cuban Missile Crisis, than he or the New York Times might care to admit. Just like the latest U.S.-DPRK crisis, with the Cuban Missile Crisis, where the U.S. blame for brinksmanship and aggression was placed on Cuba and the Soviet Union, that crisis was actually precipitated by Operation Mongoose, whereby the U.S. planned a massive bombing and invasion of Cuba. That operation is what led Cuba to accept the Soviet Union's defenses and nuclear weapons. The U.S. objective was and even today is, the attempt to overthrow Cuba's socialism, although by other means now. Today, the blame that is placed on North Korea for justifiably preparing its defenses, should be directed against the warmongers in the U.S. government. The U.S. has never let up on its aggression for more than 70 years, in part to justify its permanent occupation of South Korea. That aggression includes the failure to sign a peace treaty with North Korea, the U.S.-South Korean war exercises that are conducted annually and growing ever more threatening, the THAAD so-called defense anti-missile system and the U.S. cyber war against the DPRK. The U.S. public is being fed an hysteria by the U.S. government and media, to try to actually make the people believe that one more war is really good for us: "trust us." It is more urgent than ever for the people of the United States to say No More U.S. War in Korea, in the Middle East or anywhere. www.answercoalition.org
2
He ties his relatives up to poles and murders them by shooting anti-aircraft shells at them. He will, in response to any aggression by the US, blow up potentially hundreds of thousands of innocent South Koreans. He and his father and the cabal that stands behind him are clearly deranged. And obviously they're not the only ones.
1
If we were serious about invading or bombing north Korea we would be evacuating or hardening Seoul against a tank assault or attacks by short range, possibly nuclear tipped, north Korean missiles. Since we cant move ten million people or protect them in place, we will never do anything kinetic to stop NKs nuclear program , diplomacy is the only option. It appears we must get North Korea addicted to Western trade, and then threaten to cut it off, if we are to have any leverage, a decades long project for which Trump has no appetite or comprehension.
4
An attack on NK in order to minimize casualties would never go down like that. As soon as you start large evacuations NK would attack therefore you would cause more casualties. An attack on NK would have to be a surprise attack, quick, fast and as hard as you can to stop as much of the counter attack as possible.
No surprise attack could be guaranteed effective enough to prevent a million dead in Seoul by submarine launched missiles or retaliation by NKs partner China. Or what if China responds by invading Taiwan in a Tit for Tat? We used to be at iterated war with Canada and Mexico, now we Trade. We have to imagine this future for North Korea.
A "crisis" in very slow motion. NK has to prove it can develop a reliable rocket. They have to develop a nuclear warhead small enough to fit on the rocket. Failure of a nuclear tipped rocket on the launch pad could be catastrophic. And I believe that someone in NK or China or Russia perhaps, will convince Kim that starting such a conflict means the end of NK.
1
correct me if I am wrong, but all those that are saying the current president does not have the political experience to handle North Korea, may I suggest that the current situation has come to a head after 65 years of experienced political types,HAVING NO IDEA WHAT TO DO.now, we are 2 or 3 years away from this dangerous dictator having missle strike capability vs. the u.s. mailand.slapping this turd down, is exactly the right thing to do. call in china, russia, britain, anybody that can help. but take care of it now, or pay the bill later. the invoice is already in the mail.
4
You know that if it happens during the weekend Trump will be directing this war from his golf cart.
2
I knew Jack Kennedy. Mr. Trump, you're no Jack Kennedy.
4
Not even close. The Cuban Missile Crisis was a planned strategy of confrontation, with clear goals and lots of consultation with allies and experts. Our SCROTUS (So-called Ruler of the United States) is a loose canon that is fully loaded. He doesn't need consultation, experts or evidence. He said (on a different issue) that HE IS the evidence. And his bigly brain know more than the generals.
On the other hand, if N.Korea is not stopped, by force, if necessary, it is entirely possible that we end up in a shooting war with a much stronger N.Korea. If you don't do preventative maintenance on your house, the repair bill, when there is no longer a choice, can be very expensive. The problem is that Trump, like any bully, only understands force, Lacking any transparency in this Administration, we can't trust any conclusion regarding the rationality of this plan.
On the other hand, if N.Korea is not stopped, by force, if necessary, it is entirely possible that we end up in a shooting war with a much stronger N.Korea. If you don't do preventative maintenance on your house, the repair bill, when there is no longer a choice, can be very expensive. The problem is that Trump, like any bully, only understands force, Lacking any transparency in this Administration, we can't trust any conclusion regarding the rationality of this plan.
2
"After listening for 10 minutes, I realized it’s not so easy,” he said. “It’s not what you would think.”
Heaven help us!
Trump's blank slate of historical precedence with (and lack of knowledge of) foreign leaders, international treaties, and world events, leads one to think he is so egomaniacal and so totally stupid that he truly believes there is no American past upon which to gauge current and future actions … there is only what occurs after he took command of the royal American throne!
Heaven help us!
Trump's blank slate of historical precedence with (and lack of knowledge of) foreign leaders, international treaties, and world events, leads one to think he is so egomaniacal and so totally stupid that he truly believes there is no American past upon which to gauge current and future actions … there is only what occurs after he took command of the royal American throne!
5
"He emerged surprised that Beijing did not have the kind of absolute control over its impoverished neighbor that he insisted it did last year."
Trump and his advisers are fools if they believe this. North Korea's economy and war machines are sustained through generous help and support from China and Russia. Trump thinks he is using his trade threats against China to make them keep North Korea quiet. The exact opposite is more likely true; China is keeping North Korea issue on a thin fuse. It allows them to keep the US ... at best busy on Korean conflict while they make steady inroads on global influence ... and at worse actually involve them in heightened conflict and get an upper hand in directly dealing with the US.
Trump and his advisers are fools if they believe this. North Korea's economy and war machines are sustained through generous help and support from China and Russia. Trump thinks he is using his trade threats against China to make them keep North Korea quiet. The exact opposite is more likely true; China is keeping North Korea issue on a thin fuse. It allows them to keep the US ... at best busy on Korean conflict while they make steady inroads on global influence ... and at worse actually involve them in heightened conflict and get an upper hand in directly dealing with the US.
3
The dangerous quagmire we're in would be a tremendous challenge to solve for even the most thoughtful, informed, and experienced politician in complex and nuanced matters of international diplomacy. It is clear to everyone in the world, even to his supporters, that Trump is not that politician. Not by far. The possibility of a nuclear conflict in that area of the world seems unthinkable, another one of those "it-will-never-happen" kind of scenarios, like a life-killing asteroid hitting Earth, or green aliens invading New York. But so was the possibility of having as our president a reality TV-star who publicly bragged about groping women. And yet it happened. With the likes of Kim and Trump holding the triggers, the chances of a nuclear weapon NOT detonating in the Korean peninsula in the next few months are very slim. The entire world should accept that fact and act accordingly.
1
North Korea probably suspects that China would happily abandon it to South Korea in exchange for Taiwan. Its weapons program probably has that contingency in mind.
North Korea is wise to be accelerating its nuclear weapons and missile programs as quickly as it can. The United States doesn't attack nuclear armed nations.
2
This is right out of the Putin dictators' playbook...create a crisis/war then consolidate power while everyone is distracted.
You just wrap the deception up in fear and propaganda (lies deceit and manipulation) long enough to take power then declare everyone who doesn't support you a "terrorist". Trump is building up his internment camps already, for the "illegals", no coincidence there, I'm sure it's all very innocent, ya sure.
This was the plan all along...Iran, NK, Syria, doesn't matter...it's an old tried and true tactic every dictator uses.
A war is coming all right, but the real one is not overseas.
You just wrap the deception up in fear and propaganda (lies deceit and manipulation) long enough to take power then declare everyone who doesn't support you a "terrorist". Trump is building up his internment camps already, for the "illegals", no coincidence there, I'm sure it's all very innocent, ya sure.
This was the plan all along...Iran, NK, Syria, doesn't matter...it's an old tried and true tactic every dictator uses.
A war is coming all right, but the real one is not overseas.
4
I'm from New England and we New Englanders have a special hatred for draft dodging war mongers like bone spurs trump.
If he was so eager for war he should have manned up during The Vietnam War and fought with his countrymen.
Now, even though he knows we know he is a draft dodging coward, he pretends to be a total the guy.
What is the with the big bad gop electing draft dodging war mongering cowards?
Must be the way they"re raised.
If he was so eager for war he should have manned up during The Vietnam War and fought with his countrymen.
Now, even though he knows we know he is a draft dodging coward, he pretends to be a total the guy.
What is the with the big bad gop electing draft dodging war mongering cowards?
Must be the way they"re raised.
7
How about offering a peace treaty to end the Korean War, which is still going on, on paper. NK's enemies, SK and US, seem to be what holds the country together. If it lost them, the regime might collapse.
Many here are placing their bets that the military who is advising Trump will keep us out of war.
I think if history teaches us anything that you cannot count on the military to go against their nature.
A mindset whose nature sees the "solution" to all our geopolitical challenges, since the obscene bombing of Dresden in World War II, as "let's bomb them into the stone age."
Years later during this same mentality was in evidence from Air Force General Curtis LeMay during the Cuban Missle Crisis and the Vietnam War.
Today, the "geniuses" in the Pentagon now propose we can successfully use the bloated MOAB as that one-stop "solution" to settling scores with rouge nations like Iran and North Korea.
So, if you think the military has learned anything in the last years 70 years, you are sadly mistaken.
And god help us all because we do not have a JFK or even an LBJ in the White House to place that needed check on a itchy trigger-finger military that always had far too many "toys" of war at their disposal.
I think if history teaches us anything that you cannot count on the military to go against their nature.
A mindset whose nature sees the "solution" to all our geopolitical challenges, since the obscene bombing of Dresden in World War II, as "let's bomb them into the stone age."
Years later during this same mentality was in evidence from Air Force General Curtis LeMay during the Cuban Missle Crisis and the Vietnam War.
Today, the "geniuses" in the Pentagon now propose we can successfully use the bloated MOAB as that one-stop "solution" to settling scores with rouge nations like Iran and North Korea.
So, if you think the military has learned anything in the last years 70 years, you are sadly mistaken.
And god help us all because we do not have a JFK or even an LBJ in the White House to place that needed check on a itchy trigger-finger military that always had far too many "toys" of war at their disposal.
1
"After listening for 10 minutes, I realized it’s not so easy,” he said. “It’s not what you would think.”
So a ten minute conversation has awakened the know nothing president that like the botched health care debacle that he's in over his head and is not prepared for the crisis at hand. But take heart,as he said he knows more than the generals.
So a ten minute conversation has awakened the know nothing president that like the botched health care debacle that he's in over his head and is not prepared for the crisis at hand. But take heart,as he said he knows more than the generals.
3
70 years ago I was sweating out my imminent discharge from the US
AiForce. President Truman and General McArthur didn't't allow North Korea
to keep WW2 going. JGAIA-
AiForce. President Truman and General McArthur didn't't allow North Korea
to keep WW2 going. JGAIA-
1
The Cuban Missile Crisis was between two roughly equivalent global superpowers. North Korea is acting as a rogue state, in violation of the wishes of its only powerful ally, China. As such, the analogy does not work...not even a little.
2
Obama’s strategic patience policy can be better described as no policy at all. What we are facing is a N.K. government that is willing to sacrifice millions of lives of its own people for the sake of the dictator. Plus the fact that China has been unwilling to cut trade relationships with N.K., installing sanctions just did not work. What the dictator fears is death delivered by US military power. Our hesitation of even warning N.K. of this possibility emboldened the dictator. We made him believe that he can get away with developing nuclear weapons. And when we realize we have been too soft on him, he would already have ICBM with nuclear warheads in his backyard. I am not opposed to negotiations, but we have to show him what terrible consequence (no less than death of himself) he would face if he continues the nuclear program. The regimen has become more and more insane and only the threat of death penalty has a chance of working.
1
To have such an arsenal, nuclear bombs included, you must have a powerful economy. This is not the case of North Korea a country with a small GNP. Therefore someone is financing this. And I have no doubt that is China, precisely the country in which Donald Trump trust to stop the madness of Kim Jong-un. Mr. Trump please don´t be so naive.
1
Actually you don't need a powerful economy, not if you run your country as a brutal tyrannical dictatorship, starving your populace and spending all of the money on the military.
4
Can I get some chocolate cake over here?
5
I can't quite believe I'm saying this but: If the US is to strike N Korea, then sooner than later is better. Before N Korea has more capabilities. And while a true catastrophe can (maybe) be avoided.
3
The idea of an extremely complex and dangerous conflict between North Korea and the U.S. with Trump at the helm is utterly terrifying.
It was bad enough when only one of the leaders, Kim Jong-Un, was narcissistic, unstable and incompetent. Now they both are. I hope we all live through it.
It was bad enough when only one of the leaders, Kim Jong-Un, was narcissistic, unstable and incompetent. Now they both are. I hope we all live through it.
2
Trump and his Generals are actually playing this pretty well. The Syrian slap on the wrist has demonstrated that there is a new sheriff in town, although credit Obama for likely doing extensive cyber damage to NK's nuclear ambitions, all without a single word (something Trump is incapable of).
The real mystery with North Korea is why they exist in the first place, or at least their government. Propaganda is a tool they use well, but at some point the citizens must believe the 30 year old buy prince must be interested in more than blowing things up. In fact of it weren't for the millions of innocent civilians we could blow that backwater country into the Stone Age. Alas, it won't be that easy.
But bravo to, probably Obama and Trump, for completely ruining their big submarine launch. And my guess is that if MK decides to test the equivalent of a hydrogen bomb somewhere is a fixed location, that fixed location will soon become dust.
The real mystery with North Korea is why they exist in the first place, or at least their government. Propaganda is a tool they use well, but at some point the citizens must believe the 30 year old buy prince must be interested in more than blowing things up. In fact of it weren't for the millions of innocent civilians we could blow that backwater country into the Stone Age. Alas, it won't be that easy.
But bravo to, probably Obama and Trump, for completely ruining their big submarine launch. And my guess is that if MK decides to test the equivalent of a hydrogen bomb somewhere is a fixed location, that fixed location will soon become dust.
3
Kim Jong-un is a boy and a coward. Any nuclear fight he starts with South Korea or Japan, directly or indirectly by messing with the US, will result in the obliteration of his insignificant country. That's too high a price to pay for all involved, so I'm thinking the lil' prince is all show and no go. He won't start a war where his death is insured.
Now if someone could just explain what that little country is so important to China. I just haven't seen a good explanation.
Now if someone could just explain what that little country is so important to China. I just haven't seen a good explanation.
4
North Korea doesn't want to start a nuclear war. They want nuclear weapons as means of protection. The US doesn't attack nuclear nations. If the DPRK was suicidal all it would have to do is bombard Seoul with conventional weapons, yet they haven't for 60 years.
China would likes having North Korea around as it acts as a buffer between US troops stationed on its border. Simple.
China would likes having North Korea around as it acts as a buffer between US troops stationed on its border. Simple.
2
Good point about why NK hasn't gone after SK. And I agree that their nuclear build up is as a deterrent. I just don't think the US, with or without China's help, will let them go much further. It's ok for them to have hand guns, but not machine guns. We'll see. A lot of inexperienced people in this mix now. Hopefully people like McMaster and Mattis can see how this could easily get out of control when the "leaders" are Trump and Kim-jung un.
1
All this saber rattling by the USA accomplishes only one thing: giving Jong-Un the PR advantage. By threatening NK, we are enabling his propaganda, that NK needs a nuclear defense. Don't put the cart before the horse. This just shows how incompetent and naive the White House is, regarding foreign policy. The bully method won't work here.
2
I do not think for one moment that this administration is out to start a war...Kim Jong is a fruit loop who is quite clearly of his rocker.
I do believe that Russia and China have no interest in starting any form of hostilities ...here in England we find Kim Jong a caricature it is very hard to take the short fat creature seriously...he is all hot air and nothing else.
I do believe that Russia and China have no interest in starting any form of hostilities ...here in England we find Kim Jong a caricature it is very hard to take the short fat creature seriously...he is all hot air and nothing else.
2
This is a "trigger happy, devil may care" administration.
Bombing Syria and Afghanistan and now North Korea in span of 10 days?
What ever happened to art of diplomacy? You can't bomb away to improve your ratings!
Bombing Syria and Afghanistan and now North Korea in span of 10 days?
What ever happened to art of diplomacy? You can't bomb away to improve your ratings!
1
Whatever happened to President Obama's wiretapping, anyhow?
The whole issue vanished! Leave it to bombs, they take care of everything.
The whole issue vanished! Leave it to bombs, they take care of everything.
3
so, instead we should do nothing?
1
Not starting WW3 =/= doing nothing.
3
Mr. Trump is a naive, one level, immature, narcissistic thinker whose followers believe every word he tweets as the "truth". Mr. Trump constantly demonstrates by his tweets, verbal statements and actions that he makes emotional decisions without a thorough regard to what happens next. For example, Mr. Trump's 59 Tomahawk cruise missiles against Assad was an emotional reaction with no coherent follow through.
Time and time again, when Mr. Trump popular naive campaign rhetoric hits the real world, he acts astonished that reality is harder than he understood. Quoting Mr. Trump: "Nobody knew that health care could be so complicated” and contradicting his campaign statements about China: "They're not currency manipulators",
Thus far, when reality confronts each of Mr. Trump's campaign promises, he has caved or reversed his position 180 degrees. For example, think of Mr. Trump's reconsidering the US recognition of the One China Policy, Repeal and Replace Obama Care immediately, not sending US Troops into Syria [Mr. Trump has already authorized hundreds of US Marines into Syria], Trump's initial failure to recognize Russia's annexation of Crimea which Ambassador Haley now condemns.
Hopefully, reality hits Mr. Trump and tempers his actions before Kim Jong-un unleashes an attack on South Korea or our allies. Remember, there is more than one way to deliver a nuclear weapon. An errant ship entering a US port city with a nuclear weapon is a direct threat to the USA.
Time and time again, when Mr. Trump popular naive campaign rhetoric hits the real world, he acts astonished that reality is harder than he understood. Quoting Mr. Trump: "Nobody knew that health care could be so complicated” and contradicting his campaign statements about China: "They're not currency manipulators",
Thus far, when reality confronts each of Mr. Trump's campaign promises, he has caved or reversed his position 180 degrees. For example, think of Mr. Trump's reconsidering the US recognition of the One China Policy, Repeal and Replace Obama Care immediately, not sending US Troops into Syria [Mr. Trump has already authorized hundreds of US Marines into Syria], Trump's initial failure to recognize Russia's annexation of Crimea which Ambassador Haley now condemns.
Hopefully, reality hits Mr. Trump and tempers his actions before Kim Jong-un unleashes an attack on South Korea or our allies. Remember, there is more than one way to deliver a nuclear weapon. An errant ship entering a US port city with a nuclear weapon is a direct threat to the USA.
2
@NKDA There is one thread of hope when it to Trump. At least he's willing to admit to the public he never thought it could all be so complicated. A more devious, or a hopelessly small minded person, would never even admit that much. Maybe there's a shred of hope this president can graduate to first grade.
People who voted for Trump must love all of this winning. The rest of us are very concerned:
Mr. Trump is clearly new to this kind of dynamic, as he implicitly acknowledged when he volunteered that Xi Jinping, China’s president, had given him what amounted to a compressed seminar in Chinese-North Korean relations. He emerged surprised that Beijing did not have the kind of absolute control over its impoverished neighbor that he insisted it did last year.
“After listening for 10 minutes, I realized it’s not so easy,” he said. “It’s not what you would think.”
Mr. Trump is clearly new to this kind of dynamic, as he implicitly acknowledged when he volunteered that Xi Jinping, China’s president, had given him what amounted to a compressed seminar in Chinese-North Korean relations. He emerged surprised that Beijing did not have the kind of absolute control over its impoverished neighbor that he insisted it did last year.
“After listening for 10 minutes, I realized it’s not so easy,” he said. “It’s not what you would think.”
1
It isn't really like the Cuban Missile Crisis at all: North Korea isn't The Soviet Union. No, it is more like the Korean War that was never finished. To that extent it involves China, who effectively underwrites the country and its military technology, as it did in the 1950s war. Of course, NK and China may have purchased ballistic missile and guidance technology from the US during the Clinton Administration:http://www.nytimes.com/1999/05/11/world/clinton-approves-technology-tran... Israel also sells or re-sells similar military technology. It is interesting, speaking of Israel, to consider what they would do geopolitically, if North Korea were their neighbor. A comprehensive bombing and verified destruction of their installations would be utterly within feasible policy. Time for a North-East Asia Transformation? In that regard, synthetic pretext may be the short-term risk to the US, which would foreclose coordinated statecraft solutions.
1
Using an anti-aircraft artillery weapon to execute a family member means the despot is psychotic, by definition. Surely, somebody close to him could be persuaded to commit the act needed to eliminate him. If not, it seems to me the risk of one psychotic with the ability to end civilization in NorthEast Asia is too big. Given enough time, he will do it. Therefore pre-emption is justified.
We have been appeasing the Kim regime in North Korea for decades, offering aid and recognition in exchange for a cessation of nuclear activities. That approach has clearly failed so maybe it's time to trade in the carrot for a stick.
If Kim thinks that Trump might actually do something drastic to achieve regime change, we could actually see a better behaved North Korea. Or we can go ahead and let Kim develop nuclear tipped ICBMs and just trust that he wouldn't ever use them. Good luck!
If Kim thinks that Trump might actually do something drastic to achieve regime change, we could actually see a better behaved North Korea. Or we can go ahead and let Kim develop nuclear tipped ICBMs and just trust that he wouldn't ever use them. Good luck!
The Trump administration reminds me of a guy I knew who found out he would get the full cost of his house from his insurance company if it burned down.
So, he burned it down.
Unfortunately, he could only rebuild another house.
Everything in his old house that had made it a "home" was gone forever.
So, he burned it down.
Unfortunately, he could only rebuild another house.
Everything in his old house that had made it a "home" was gone forever.
I understand that President Obama informed Donald Trump during the transition, that North Korea would be a big problem perhaps the biggest. There's no simple emotionally and/or politically charged analytic comments that is a solution. I hope the behind the curtain efforts of diplomacy and lines of highly confidential communication involving our former President and others including other nations can help. Too much anxiety attached to this President upon arrival and now in this crisis. I hope the paranoid lunatic madman of North Korea can be assured they won't attacked. The Chinese and the world can't bow to this growing threat. Pakistan the merry home of the Taliban and Libya were the conduits of North Korean nuclear growth as reported in the NYT and everywhere. What a mess. The denial of global warming, the border wall, the unethical administration with unprecedented conflicts of interest, personal self interest and appointed people with right wing and ultra conservative intolerant fascist religious agendas just adds to our misery.
1
Well what would the US do if the North Koreans had nuclear bases off our coasts while bombing anf invading lessor countries Is it rational for NK to disarm given US policy of containment and aggression around the world. The US has no moral high ground here. We might try negotiating less from a position of superiority and more from one of equality before we engulf Asia and the world in flames.
Ps. Do I hear the Times falling in line behind the war drums ..... again?
Ron
Ps. Do I hear the Times falling in line behind the war drums ..... again?
Ron
1
This alarmist headline is not serving anyone here. It's not the Cuban Missile Crisis. That was one of the closest, most dangerous confrontations between two superpowers with thousands of nuclear weapons ready to be launched at each other within hours. One false move and the whole world would've gone up in smithereens, with billions dead.
That is not the case here.
North Korea has, at most, a few nuclear weapons, and no means by which to launch them to other nations. It does have conventional missiles and weapons aimed at South Korea and Japan, and they will launch these weapons into heavily populated cities, like Seoul and Tokyo. Hundreds of thousands to millions will die in a region of the world with some of the most dynamic and sophisticated economies in the world.
So if Trump and his advisors are ready to cause a world recession and kill millions in South Korea and Japan, then have at it. But unless China and Russia involve themselves, this will not lead to nuclear confrontation.
Beijing seems to be more calculating and rational, along with Trump's advisors. They will put the breaks on this. Moscow may do so too.
We will see how things play out.
But Trump has now discovered that if he creates international crises and tensions like these, the US mainstream media will crow, lots of people will fawn over him as a "decisive leader", and all the bad news regarding his administration will be drowned out. This is a dangerous discovery for all involved.
That is not the case here.
North Korea has, at most, a few nuclear weapons, and no means by which to launch them to other nations. It does have conventional missiles and weapons aimed at South Korea and Japan, and they will launch these weapons into heavily populated cities, like Seoul and Tokyo. Hundreds of thousands to millions will die in a region of the world with some of the most dynamic and sophisticated economies in the world.
So if Trump and his advisors are ready to cause a world recession and kill millions in South Korea and Japan, then have at it. But unless China and Russia involve themselves, this will not lead to nuclear confrontation.
Beijing seems to be more calculating and rational, along with Trump's advisors. They will put the breaks on this. Moscow may do so too.
We will see how things play out.
But Trump has now discovered that if he creates international crises and tensions like these, the US mainstream media will crow, lots of people will fawn over him as a "decisive leader", and all the bad news regarding his administration will be drowned out. This is a dangerous discovery for all involved.
11
Excellent comment, thanks for the insight. I have been mulling it over and have come to the same conclusion, like millions of others, to be sure. 45....a Tempest in a teapot.
Nobody has the faintest idea how to handle this. The US appears better suited to handle our end of things because of generals who are not afraid to confront Mr. Trump as Kim Jong un's subjects appear to do with him.
Decades separate these two leaders in age, but they are both equally temperamentally fit for leadership. The Editorial Board this morning was urging caution and diplomacy, but what does the US do when it's adversary refuses to do so?
I just wish Team Trump would stop raising the ante with all these threats and ultimatums, which only deepen the paranoia of the young Kim Jong un. Surely, of all our awful options, this should be the most obvious.
Decades separate these two leaders in age, but they are both equally temperamentally fit for leadership. The Editorial Board this morning was urging caution and diplomacy, but what does the US do when it's adversary refuses to do so?
I just wish Team Trump would stop raising the ante with all these threats and ultimatums, which only deepen the paranoia of the young Kim Jong un. Surely, of all our awful options, this should be the most obvious.
2
A more apt analogy is National Lampoon's magazine cover: "If you don't buy this magazine we'll kill this dog."
North Korea is calculating that we will not risk Seoul's civilians. They are wrong.
North Korea is calculating that we will not risk Seoul's civilians. They are wrong.
1
Unfortunately, we don't have a president with enough intellectual grasp, and strategic imagination, to formulate a peaceful solution to this situation.
However, as it appears China is providing electronics and other components to the NK missile program, their talk about being "unable" to control Kim is completely false. There is no reasonable military solution to the problem, as proven by our recent inability to even render an airfield unusable in Syria.
Severe and crippling sanctions actually make the most sense, but hey MUST come from China.
However, as it appears China is providing electronics and other components to the NK missile program, their talk about being "unable" to control Kim is completely false. There is no reasonable military solution to the problem, as proven by our recent inability to even render an airfield unusable in Syria.
Severe and crippling sanctions actually make the most sense, but hey MUST come from China.
7
Those big multi-wheel mobile ICBM launchers are Chinese.
Methinks China overestimates how much it is loved by North Korea.
Methinks China overestimates how much it is loved by North Korea.
2
Anybody who has not seen the brilliant Cold-War thriller "FAILSAFE" (1964, Dir. Sidney Lumet), should see it.
8
After the twenty-plus, do-nothing, talk-talk, feckless years of Presidents Obama, Bush and Clinton, the window of opportunity for stopping Kim Jong-un is about to close.
If we don't act decisively very soon, Kim will have the capacity to inflict terrible damage on his neighbors and, eventually, the US. Are we willing to see that power in the hands of a depraved human being who has reportedly used his uncle as target practice for anti-aircraft weapons and routinely executes other officials in the same way, or with mortars, and even flame throwers?
President Trump is right, and his timing is right, and if the necessary actions will be belated and messy, the blame for that will lie squarely at the feet of his predecessors. No more tip-toeing around the issue. Where were our leaders when this problem was still manageable?
If we don't act decisively very soon, Kim will have the capacity to inflict terrible damage on his neighbors and, eventually, the US. Are we willing to see that power in the hands of a depraved human being who has reportedly used his uncle as target practice for anti-aircraft weapons and routinely executes other officials in the same way, or with mortars, and even flame throwers?
President Trump is right, and his timing is right, and if the necessary actions will be belated and messy, the blame for that will lie squarely at the feet of his predecessors. No more tip-toeing around the issue. Where were our leaders when this problem was still manageable?
3
Peaceful, rational, and diplomatic resources must be used first. However, when you have two saber rattling countries like the U.S. and North Korea, that probably is not going to happen. North Korea knows it cannot win against South Korea and the United States. Pushing them into a corner to react is not an answer. Creative problem solving is needed in this situation. I do not see the GOP and Trump trying anything remotely creative to calm the situation. You have to work hard for peace. Can't see lazy Trump/Pence/GOP exerting themselves.
Hey, I am in favor of creative problem solving too. But wishful thinking won't get us out of this scrape, and it could let the least bad option slip out of our hands.
You really think that the best and the brightest in successive Administrations haven't been trying to come up with creative solutions?
The fact is that the quest for "creative problem solving" has become an alibi for not doing what we have to do before it's too late.
You really think that the best and the brightest in successive Administrations haven't been trying to come up with creative solutions?
The fact is that the quest for "creative problem solving" has become an alibi for not doing what we have to do before it's too late.
Unfortunately this is much worse than the CMC because the leaders of the countries involved now are both mentally unstable and the weapons are even much more destructive.
I recall a Trump supporter's comment in one of the articles in The NY Times just before the election. "Trump is going to drop a nuke on Washington!", he exclaimed. Well I hope he is happy because here it comes ......
I recall a Trump supporter's comment in one of the articles in The NY Times just before the election. "Trump is going to drop a nuke on Washington!", he exclaimed. Well I hope he is happy because here it comes ......
8
As noted elsewhere, this is worse than Cuba. The US started that problem and in hindsight there was never any real danger. Khrushchev was responding to our provocation when we placed missiles in Turkey. Kennedy knew he had to back off.
There is no backing off here. Imagine if a crazy person in your town kept threatening to kill your family, and starting buying guns and practicing at the firing range. You go to the police and they can't do anything. What would you do? It begins to seem like that's what we will need to do to North Korea. The good news is that when it's all over, there will be one Korea and the people in the North won't have to starve any more.
There is no backing off here. Imagine if a crazy person in your town kept threatening to kill your family, and starting buying guns and practicing at the firing range. You go to the police and they can't do anything. What would you do? It begins to seem like that's what we will need to do to North Korea. The good news is that when it's all over, there will be one Korea and the people in the North won't have to starve any more.
2
I question Pres. Trump and Vice-President Pence suggesting that the US and its allies will tolerate no more of North Korea's provocative nuclear tests.....at the same time they seem to know nothing of diplomacy. A short little visit at a golf course and Pres. Trump assumes everyone is willing to go to war with him. He and his family will be safe you can be certain as he sacrifices the beautiful young people of America, as happened in the Vietnam War.
I doubt that his allies will be willing to follow the US to war with North Korea. Most countries value diplomacy and trade sanctions before getting out the big guns. Lately such action has just caused a vacuum where even worse leaders take the place of the deposed.
I doubt that his allies will be willing to follow the US to war with North Korea. Most countries value diplomacy and trade sanctions before getting out the big guns. Lately such action has just caused a vacuum where even worse leaders take the place of the deposed.
3
China values its largest trading partners. That's just smart business for those in charge of a growing economy. And who might those "valued" partners be? Here's a list of the top four in 2016:
1. United States: US$388.1 billion (18.3% of total Chinese exports)
2. Hong Kong: $292.2 billion (13.8%)
3. Japan: $129.5 billion (6.1%)
4. South Korea: $94.7 billion (4.5%)
On the other hand, while China is North Korea's largest trade partner North Korea ranked 82nd on the list of China's trade partners ...
1. United States: US$388.1 billion (18.3% of total Chinese exports)
2. Hong Kong: $292.2 billion (13.8%)
3. Japan: $129.5 billion (6.1%)
4. South Korea: $94.7 billion (4.5%)
On the other hand, while China is North Korea's largest trade partner North Korea ranked 82nd on the list of China's trade partners ...
1
Yes, this looks like the Cuban Missile Crisis except Kennedy and Khrushchev actually didn't want to destroy the planet. And, they didn't--although it came close due to an itchy finger on the trigger that was stopped on the Russian "side."
Today, there are two extremely disoriented and immature males who have no basis for measuring consequences. Both come from extremely similar backgrounds--spoiled by their fathers, brought into the "family business" when neither was really suited to the job. Both are boastful, suffer from
unpredictable behavior that the news media likes to call "improvised", which is a cover-up of the worst order--for all of us.
Where are the adults? In North Korea, I believe the last adult was killed by Kim--his uncle. Trump has made sure that he only surrounds himself with sycophants and his children thereby assuring that no one will intervene in his erratic behavior.
Will the world be destroyed while he is eating chocolate cake in Florida? Does he even realize what he is doing, threatening the entire existence of the planet and its peoples? I don't think he does because he is mentally and emotionally disturbed and the type of intervention needed is medical not military. This is not really programming for the morning chat shows but that's the best we get.
Today, there are two extremely disoriented and immature males who have no basis for measuring consequences. Both come from extremely similar backgrounds--spoiled by their fathers, brought into the "family business" when neither was really suited to the job. Both are boastful, suffer from
unpredictable behavior that the news media likes to call "improvised", which is a cover-up of the worst order--for all of us.
Where are the adults? In North Korea, I believe the last adult was killed by Kim--his uncle. Trump has made sure that he only surrounds himself with sycophants and his children thereby assuring that no one will intervene in his erratic behavior.
Will the world be destroyed while he is eating chocolate cake in Florida? Does he even realize what he is doing, threatening the entire existence of the planet and its peoples? I don't think he does because he is mentally and emotionally disturbed and the type of intervention needed is medical not military. This is not really programming for the morning chat shows but that's the best we get.
4
So Trump's grand strategy is to throw the ball into China's lap to solve NK. Foreign policy pushed to the point of idiocy! I can't figure which is worse, Trump having the nerve to try bullying the Chinese or his not recognizing the stupidity of the move altogether. All China has to do now is nothing, leaving the Trump holding the bag. Wonder what his next move will be?
4
You can fear the north korean trump if you want but we modern adults see this as what it really is, a pretty transparent and pathetic attempt by a mentally unbalanced man child to defeoct attention from his Russia treason.
No thanks.
We feel for this crap when the AWOL coward from crawford texas said iraq had WMD and it cost us thousands of US lives, 1/4 million Iraqi lives and $2 trillion in is tax payer money...as well as our reputation .
No thanks.
We feel for this crap when the AWOL coward from crawford texas said iraq had WMD and it cost us thousands of US lives, 1/4 million Iraqi lives and $2 trillion in is tax payer money...as well as our reputation .
3
The analogy with the Cuban missile crisis is not quite correct.
In this case, it is a third country, South Korea, that will be destroyed if we escalate militarily.
We are not threatened with total destruction, they are.
In this case, it is a third country, South Korea, that will be destroyed if we escalate militarily.
We are not threatened with total destruction, they are.
5
And what happens when the air over both N and S Korea moves this way? Many people will sicken and die. Babies will be born and too many will be deformed. What actual damage will happen to the entire planet and how many generations will have to pass through their life cycles before our planet can be declared at "sort of"' ok?????
If American trump didn't collude with russia to "win" the election and his team wasn't being investigated by the FBI we wouldn't even hear about the north korean trump and his iffy missiles.
4
Hey, Bot. Your screen name is misspelled...
1
Let's see now, in the past 90 days the world appears to be closer to the brink of nuclear war than it did when I was a child and my parents took us from Long Island to the interior portion of Pennsylvania in the hope that we would survive the Cuban Missile Crisis. Not only is Trump contending with North Korea, Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, a new Chinese hegemony and Russian interference in our electoral cycle, he now has to deal with Turkey, which will require a skill set not possessed by either Tillerson or Trump.
Just 90 days to get to this point because Trump does not realize the importance of his words which get tweeted out on a daily basis. He does not realize how his 180-degree turnarounds in policy make him appear to be the weakest president in memory. This is that moment in time when, if it is in him, he needs to become very presidential, or we and the world run the risk of the unintended consequence of a rogue leader starting a nuclear conflagration - be in the young boy running North Korea or the highly unequipped man-child running the USA.
Just 90 days to get to this point because Trump does not realize the importance of his words which get tweeted out on a daily basis. He does not realize how his 180-degree turnarounds in policy make him appear to be the weakest president in memory. This is that moment in time when, if it is in him, he needs to become very presidential, or we and the world run the risk of the unintended consequence of a rogue leader starting a nuclear conflagration - be in the young boy running North Korea or the highly unequipped man-child running the USA.
2
Happy, Trump voters?
Your man is really "proving himself, isn't he? Ok, then send your kids.....
Your man is really "proving himself, isn't he? Ok, then send your kids.....
5
There must be civil disobedience EVERY DAY in this country to protest the policies of this criminally dangerous administration. A collection of racists, homophobes, imbeciles and corporatists with a miscreant moronic child at it's head. These are the most dangerous times since the Cuban missile crisis so the public better start paying serious attention NOW to fight this evil that is slowly devouring our country.
6
"...I realized it's not so easy...It's not what you think." Really, Donald Trump? Your lack of any true knowledge of the complexity of the world's issues is terrifying. Do you think perhaps you might have studied up on Chineses/North Korean history before meeting with the leader of China? The fact that you are so intellectually lazy, makes the fact that you're the leader of the free world horrifying.
20
The man brags that he never reads books ought to tell you what kind of man he is. Four to 6 hours of tv watching, mostly Fox, and eating junk food all day. This is who is POTUS, the man frightens the heck out of me.
6
It is interesting that you chose the Cuban Missile Crisis as a parallel example. The CMC was an extremely low point in US-USSR (aka Russia) relations. Yet recently Trump asserted that the current time is the lowest point. Is it possible that Trump does not recall the CMC? He is old enough, but was probably not paying attention.
4
What a Mess: North Korea
The truth is that we can't always prevent another nation, even a terrorist group from obtaining and even using nuclear weapons.
The truth is that our only strength is in fostering peace, preventing the spread of nuclear weapons when possible, strengthening our alliances and pursuing carefully calculated, internationally supported, well executed, cautious and careful- diplomatic and if necessary military actions. All of which the current Administration has thrown out the window.
Donald Trump is like an aggressive driver, daring anyone that comes into his path to get out of the way as he speeds to oblivion- taking the nation along with him. Great powers do not act like bullies. They are not vengeful and petty. But as the President goes, so the nation.
If I chose to be an optimist- I would hope that China- takes on the mantle of world leadership abdicated by the United States and can mediate a face saving victory for Kim-Jong-un- and Trump. Doing so would allow US and Korean conservative hawks to claim victory and avert a nuclear war.
We are in deep trouble.
The truth is that we can't always prevent another nation, even a terrorist group from obtaining and even using nuclear weapons.
The truth is that our only strength is in fostering peace, preventing the spread of nuclear weapons when possible, strengthening our alliances and pursuing carefully calculated, internationally supported, well executed, cautious and careful- diplomatic and if necessary military actions. All of which the current Administration has thrown out the window.
Donald Trump is like an aggressive driver, daring anyone that comes into his path to get out of the way as he speeds to oblivion- taking the nation along with him. Great powers do not act like bullies. They are not vengeful and petty. But as the President goes, so the nation.
If I chose to be an optimist- I would hope that China- takes on the mantle of world leadership abdicated by the United States and can mediate a face saving victory for Kim-Jong-un- and Trump. Doing so would allow US and Korean conservative hawks to claim victory and avert a nuclear war.
We are in deep trouble.
10
I feel insecure, mostly because our President doesn't think before he speaks or tweets. My hope is that there are 'adults' propping up this presidency who understand the threat we are all facing, and that they will use caution and diplomacy rather than the big red button.
10
Dictators like Kim Jong (and Trump for that matter) are all about saving their own skins. The little boy from NK has nowhere to run and he's seen how the general population in Iraq and Libya tore apart Gaddafi and Saddam with their bare hands. So I don't expect Kim Jong is about to risk his own safety.
4
"He emerged surprised that Beijing did not have the kind of absolute control over its impoverished neighbor that he insisted it did last year. 'After listening for 10 minutes, I realized it’s not so easy,' he said." Here we are again, a month after his "who knew healthcare could be so complicated?" comment, and only a week or two after he figured out that Assad has been brutal towards his own population.
What else do he need to figure out on the job? And why is he treating world leaders like his personal Cliff Notes?
What else do he need to figure out on the job? And why is he treating world leaders like his personal Cliff Notes?
8
obviously there are many differences between the present situation with Korea and the Cuban Missile Crisis but two jump out at me.
First, The Cuban situation risked a war with Russia, not some 2nd rate power like Cuba or Korea.
Second, the Cuban crisis, if it came to war put millions of US citizens at risk whereas with Korea US citizens are not presumably at risk but many millions of Koreans (and Japanese) are.
The third and most worrisome difference is that Kennedy and Khrushev were rational. Now we have Trump and Kim Il-sung neither of whom do i consider rational. I much scarier situation
First, The Cuban situation risked a war with Russia, not some 2nd rate power like Cuba or Korea.
Second, the Cuban crisis, if it came to war put millions of US citizens at risk whereas with Korea US citizens are not presumably at risk but many millions of Koreans (and Japanese) are.
The third and most worrisome difference is that Kennedy and Khrushev were rational. Now we have Trump and Kim Il-sung neither of whom do i consider rational. I much scarier situation
4
Good up to the last sentence. This is bad, this is scary, but it is definitely NOT scarier than the Cuban Missile Crisis!
1
"When national ambitions, personal ego and deadly weapons are all in the mix, the opportunities for miscalculation are many."
Are we talking about Trump and the US?
Are we talking about Trump and the US?
3
trumps promises :
wall -- working on it
jobs -- uhh, get back to us, its more complicated than he thought
infrastructure -- soon, soon, maybe
war -- coming right up !
11
Please someone impeach this president already. Rescuing his beleaguered presidency by 'wagging the dog' – what a surprise. Allowing two desperate ruthless tyrants on two sides of the world to bait him into potential nuclear war simultaneously is as bad as it gets. We knew geopolitical crises would come up and now they they have.
Politicians of every stripe worm their way into the apex power in their respective countries through guile and intelligence (Putin, Xi Jinping) or hereditary entitlement (Assad, Kim Jong-un). Either way, as skilled battle hardened pols or as a heir apparent, it forces them to be students of geopolitics for better or worse. Donald Trump rose to the top another way, as a celebrity spouting off hollow, ill thought out, impossible to fulfill promises. With his opponent being a tone deaf and charisma challenged party hack he garnering just enough votes from the the poorly educated and greedy to squeak out a victory. As far as we can tell he was never a student of geopolitics or much of anything else except evading taxes and taking advantage of bankruptcy law. We are now in a bad situation to say the least – and in under 100 days in. Our only hope is that the generals advising him have some hold on rationality (the generals advising JFK during the Cuban missile crisis didn't and we almost had WWIII back then). The North Korea situation is especially serious as Trump's adversary there seems to be as unhinged and impulsive as he is.
Politicians of every stripe worm their way into the apex power in their respective countries through guile and intelligence (Putin, Xi Jinping) or hereditary entitlement (Assad, Kim Jong-un). Either way, as skilled battle hardened pols or as a heir apparent, it forces them to be students of geopolitics for better or worse. Donald Trump rose to the top another way, as a celebrity spouting off hollow, ill thought out, impossible to fulfill promises. With his opponent being a tone deaf and charisma challenged party hack he garnering just enough votes from the the poorly educated and greedy to squeak out a victory. As far as we can tell he was never a student of geopolitics or much of anything else except evading taxes and taking advantage of bankruptcy law. We are now in a bad situation to say the least – and in under 100 days in. Our only hope is that the generals advising him have some hold on rationality (the generals advising JFK during the Cuban missile crisis didn't and we almost had WWIII back then). The North Korea situation is especially serious as Trump's adversary there seems to be as unhinged and impulsive as he is.
4
Yes, let's impeach the duly elected President of the US on the charge of you just don't happen to like him. You wouldn't have the opportunity to criticize Trump on his Korea policy if the previous President had not been so woefully innefective in addressing NK's evergence as a nuclear threat. The slow fuse to this situation was lit many years ago and the guy who missed every opportunity to put it out is vacationing on some celeb's superyacht at the moment. Good job "O".
1
Actually, you decades too late with your accusations of "ineffective in dealing with NK." NK bought their their nuke technology from our ally Pakistan decades ago. That was the time for action.
"Donald Trump rose to the top another way..."
The last guy we had was a community organizer who after that was never anything more than a "back bencher" do-nothing... So let's stuff the left wing whining for the time being. Complaining about the POTUS accomplishes nothing. Everyone knows the Left loathes him because their spear carrier didn't plan well enough and lacked the political sense required of a candidate for the presidency in order to wing an election. NK has been growing noisier and more threatening day by day for the last 8 to 10 years, meaning that Trump was handed a mess and told, "Here, it's all yours..."
The last guy we had was a community organizer who after that was never anything more than a "back bencher" do-nothing... So let's stuff the left wing whining for the time being. Complaining about the POTUS accomplishes nothing. Everyone knows the Left loathes him because their spear carrier didn't plan well enough and lacked the political sense required of a candidate for the presidency in order to wing an election. NK has been growing noisier and more threatening day by day for the last 8 to 10 years, meaning that Trump was handed a mess and told, "Here, it's all yours..."
1
Trump is going to somehow make this situation better? Yeah right.
2
my, my, but this doesnt seem exceptional at all
just the opposite, in fact
1
What makes the N.K. situation so dangerous is that Kim has no one in his inner circle to ask the question, "Do we really want to go down this path?".
It might be the last thing that person says.
It might be the last thing that person says.
5
It's like a game of very very high stakes chess. Some of the international players are very practiced, and have been playing for years on the international stage. Our guy has been playing street chess; he knows how to bluff and cheat but his grasp of the rules is tenuous.
As a Seattleite with extended family in Seoul, I take the threat of war with North Korea very seriously. Parallels to the Cuban missile crisis are certainly overdrawn, except insofar as we are nose-to-nose with a determined and shrewd adversary. Trump is no JFK, not by a very long shot. But all this talk about Kim being a crazy dictator is equally off the mark.
As he sees it, the only thing preventing the eventual absorption of North Korea into the south is his nuclear deterrent. He knows that initiating hostilities equals national suicide, and he's far too proud of his little country to do that. He is a rational actor, and he is playing a very sophisticated game of Go (paduk in Korea). Go is to chess as chess is to checkers.
Trump, on the other hand, has no native intellectual capacity, and farms it out to a bevy of generals whose motivations are unknown, but we hope peaceable. Trump is playing checkers, and thinks he is playing chess.
This is getting all too real. Let's hope that China steps in to resolve this. They will reap the benefit worldwide as the peacemakers, and further seal the USA's fate under Trump. But it will be worth the price.
As he sees it, the only thing preventing the eventual absorption of North Korea into the south is his nuclear deterrent. He knows that initiating hostilities equals national suicide, and he's far too proud of his little country to do that. He is a rational actor, and he is playing a very sophisticated game of Go (paduk in Korea). Go is to chess as chess is to checkers.
Trump, on the other hand, has no native intellectual capacity, and farms it out to a bevy of generals whose motivations are unknown, but we hope peaceable. Trump is playing checkers, and thinks he is playing chess.
This is getting all too real. Let's hope that China steps in to resolve this. They will reap the benefit worldwide as the peacemakers, and further seal the USA's fate under Trump. But it will be worth the price.
5
The North Korean leader is rational?
LOL!
I guess you think starving one's people to death and having one's military resort to putting together raiding parties into China to snatch some donkeys to eat is rational leadership, right?
LOL!
I guess you think starving one's people to death and having one's military resort to putting together raiding parties into China to snatch some donkeys to eat is rational leadership, right?
1
Ruthless, vicious, cruel - absolutely.
But what could be more rational when facing starvation than snatching some donkeys to eat?
I think you're confusing irrationality and evil. He appears to understand cause and effect pretty well. I only hope the same is true of our "leader."
But what could be more rational when facing starvation than snatching some donkeys to eat?
I think you're confusing irrationality and evil. He appears to understand cause and effect pretty well. I only hope the same is true of our "leader."
If Trump miraculously ascended into heaven from the Rose Garden the Times and its loyal, illiberal readers would claim he is violating the constitution and is a dictator. Meanwhile they would deny any responsibility for the situation that was created and allowed to fester over twenty-four years of establishment tomfoolery, incompetence and cowardice under Clinton (remember his nuke deal with NK?), Bush and Obama. Somebody else did it. Trump is an imbecilic moron because he hasn't cleared up twenty-four years of countless messes in less then 90 days.
Is it impolite to laugh at hate filled, obtuse and irresponsible liberals?
Is it impolite to laugh at hate filled, obtuse and irresponsible liberals?
1
You've provided no counter-evidence that Trump is NOT imbecilic moron!
Liberals don't call him that because he hasn't fixed world problems within 100 days; they call him that because of the vast evidence, spanning decades, that he is deeply ignorant, psychologically unstable, politically inexperienced, and keeps proving he knows little about world and national affairs!
What liberals also point out that his clumsy, uninformed, knee-jerk, flip-flopping incompetence is threatening to make the country's and the world's problems worse, not better!
Liberals don't call him that because he hasn't fixed world problems within 100 days; they call him that because of the vast evidence, spanning decades, that he is deeply ignorant, psychologically unstable, politically inexperienced, and keeps proving he knows little about world and national affairs!
What liberals also point out that his clumsy, uninformed, knee-jerk, flip-flopping incompetence is threatening to make the country's and the world's problems worse, not better!
2
The factor unknown to us all is the effectiveness of America's anti-missle systems, those that can intercept ICBMs and the many smaller systems (tactical ABMs) that generally cannot intercept intercontinental strategic missiles, even if within range—an incoming ICBM simply moves too fast for these systems.
We need Trump on site to manage this situation.
A bunker in the D-zone can be built expeditiously.
A bunker in the D-zone can be built expeditiously.
2
We are headed for a shooting war with trigger-happy Trump. Either he is going to shoot off something that the North Koreans will take as a license to retaliate, or he is going to wimp out, which will embolden the North Koreans. Then there are the Japanese, who are North Korea's main target after South Korea.
Trump knows nothing, and Sending Jared into the fray is a joke.
Trump knows nothing, and Sending Jared into the fray is a joke.
4
So, during the Cuban Missile Crisis, we had a lot of smart guys in a room. some of whom had been dealing with the Soviets for decades, and others with foreign policy experience, and they got the missiles out of Cuba and prevented the world from blowing itself up. Now, we have a pretend contractor and a bunch of military generals, with absolutely no experienced civilian foreign policy advisers on hand, to prevent another meltdown. The generals during the early 1960's wanted to send missiles to blow up the moon, to show the Soviets that we could, which is an example of why you need civilian foreign policy people, to be a voice of sanity and hopefully, reason. Good luck with this bunch.
4
Time for the next Republicon profit war.
3
I was 15 years old in 1962 during the Cuban Missile Crisis. I remember it very well. My strongest memory is of President Kennedy speaking to the nation and advising of the "quarantine" that he was imposing. I remember my friends and classmates worrying what would happen if the Russian ships did not stop or if searching Russian ships would lead to war. I also remember that our armed forces began to mobilize. Olmsted Air Force Base in Middletown PA suddenly had large bombers on the runway and the other nearby military bases swarmed with activity. It was scary. Very scary. We wondered what would happen if a nuclear weapon exploded over Washington DC. Would the radiation from that blast kill us too? Then, almost as soon as the crisis began it was over in 13 days. But they were terribly fright-filled 13 days.
The biggest difference between now and then is the Commander in Chief was Jack Kennedy. President Kennedy had seen combat in the Pacific and knew the consequences of war would be beyond tragic. He also knew that the Russians could not be allowed to place nuclear armed missiles only 90 miles from the United States. That would lead to nuclear blackmail or worse, war.
I don't believe even for an instant that Mr. Trump has the courage, insight, or ability to deal with North Korea and China. He's playing with fire. He's playing with our lives and our future.
All us hope that cooler heads can prevail and that people with knowledge, understanding and experience can calm Trump.
The biggest difference between now and then is the Commander in Chief was Jack Kennedy. President Kennedy had seen combat in the Pacific and knew the consequences of war would be beyond tragic. He also knew that the Russians could not be allowed to place nuclear armed missiles only 90 miles from the United States. That would lead to nuclear blackmail or worse, war.
I don't believe even for an instant that Mr. Trump has the courage, insight, or ability to deal with North Korea and China. He's playing with fire. He's playing with our lives and our future.
All us hope that cooler heads can prevail and that people with knowledge, understanding and experience can calm Trump.
7
Your Kennedy vs Trump analogy is not correct; not from the political point of view, but historically.
JFK felt, that allowing Soviet missiles only 90 miles from Miami would be the end of the world, as he knew it, at the same time he and his predecessors had absolutely no qualms doing the same to the USSR placing similar weapons in Turkey, which actually has a land-border with the USSR, which is even worse.
In the end - despite of it having advertised it as a big American win - the truth is that, the Soviets withdrew their ships and missiles and the Americans did the same, by removing theirs from Turkey.
Win-win but at a terrible risk of an unwinnable global conflict.
JFK felt, that allowing Soviet missiles only 90 miles from Miami would be the end of the world, as he knew it, at the same time he and his predecessors had absolutely no qualms doing the same to the USSR placing similar weapons in Turkey, which actually has a land-border with the USSR, which is even worse.
In the end - despite of it having advertised it as a big American win - the truth is that, the Soviets withdrew their ships and missiles and the Americans did the same, by removing theirs from Turkey.
Win-win but at a terrible risk of an unwinnable global conflict.
waldo Canada - Your almost correct. The missiles in Turkey were already scheduled for removal but the Americans kept it quiet because they didn't want to show linkage between the withdrawal of the Jupiter missiles and the missiles in Cuba. The Jupiters were outdated. Besides, American bombers were cruising the perimeter of the Soviet Union and were ready to enter Soviet airspace at any time. Not to forget American Trident missiles on board nuclear subs. And don't forget too that Soviet forces were poised to enter Berlin and overwhelm the American garrison there. So, yes, it was a big American win and a terrible Soviet embarrassment. Furthermore the Soviet commander on the ground was ready to launch nuclear tipped missiles and the Americans were unaware of that. It was close. JFK knew that a nuclear would be an end to both the Soviet Union and the United States. So did Krushchev and his generals. The blockade gave the Soviets a way out because it was not a declaration of war. There was also an incident involving a Soviet submarine and the American naval forces and fortunately the Americans withheld their fire.
Most fortunately the back channels worked and cooler heads prevailed. Read the book 13 Days. You will gain insight. The Americans won but we all came within an inch of losing.
Most fortunately the back channels worked and cooler heads prevailed. Read the book 13 Days. You will gain insight. The Americans won but we all came within an inch of losing.
1
"Mr. Trump is clearly new to this kind of dynamic, as he implicitly acknowledged when he volunteered that Xi Jinping, China’s president, had given him what amounted to a compressed seminar in Chinese-North Korean relations. He emerged surprised that Beijing did not have the kind of absolute control over its impoverished neighbor that he insisted it did last year.
“After listening for 10 minutes, I realized it’s not so easy,” he said. “It’s not what you would think.” "
What we appear to have here is Harry Truman...without the horse sense.
“After listening for 10 minutes, I realized it’s not so easy,” he said. “It’s not what you would think.” "
What we appear to have here is Harry Truman...without the horse sense.
1
but the chocolate cake, tell about the chocolate cake again
2
"After listening for 10 minutes, I realized it’s not so easy,” he said. “It’s not what you would think.”
No, Mr. President, it's exactly what those of us who don't get all our information from television news already knew and have been thinking for decades.
You're the child in the room.
No, Mr. President, it's exactly what those of us who don't get all our information from television news already knew and have been thinking for decades.
You're the child in the room.
20
"After listening for 10 minutes, I realized it’s not so easy,” he said. “It’s not what you would think.”
well, he is reading " american - n/k relations for dummies "
so hes on the job
4
31 nations currently possess ballistic missile inventories. And 7 of those nations currently possess intercontinental and/or intercontinental-range ballistic missile inventories:
China
France
India
Israel
Russia
U.K.
U.S.
Are you telling me that N. Korea is the only menace amongst all 31 of them?
China
France
India
Israel
Russia
U.K.
U.S.
Are you telling me that N. Korea is the only menace amongst all 31 of them?
4
Not a real warm and fuzzy about Israel. They get their backs to the wall, they'll not hesitate to use their nukes.
1
The strategic advantage of first strike means that as war - and in particular nuclear war - becomes more likely, it becomes exponentially more inevitable. Ironically, the desire for a lasting peace to follow a quick victory can accelerate the arrival of war. That's what makes this moment - and Trump's madman, brinksman, improvised, amateur approach - so incredibly, horrifyingly dangerous. Our apocalypse will follow his hollow tweet, "We had no choice."
5
If we truly believe that China can control NK, why not offer a deal to de-militarize the Korean Peninsula. The USA withdraws all our troops and NK surrenders all nuclear weapons and materials to China, all monitored by an international peace keeping force. Is it not worth the effort to at least try some diplomacy?
1
hey, i know ...
lets buy the world a coke and wish it harmony
howd that be, sparky
To give credit to former president Clinton, he had an agreement with No Korea that achieved some success. NK was a signer of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Agreement and had nuclear inspectors on the ground. I believe we provided some type of grain or other vitals in return. When the Bush Administration dismantled the Agreement, out went the inspectors and the Nuclear Agreement was ended. NK tested their 1st nuclear bomb in 2006.
7
I worry about a political novice dealing with a situation such as this. And I sympathize with the people of North and South Korea who would bear the brunt of any action by Trump or Kim Jong Un.
At the same time, the problem is an intractable one. Are we really comfortable with a North Korean regime that is working towards being capable of hitting the US Mainland with nuclear-tipped ICBMs? And one which might proliferate that ICBM technology?
If not (I'm not), what do we do about it? I don't think the answer is another Korean war, but there must be an answer.
At the same time, the problem is an intractable one. Are we really comfortable with a North Korean regime that is working towards being capable of hitting the US Mainland with nuclear-tipped ICBMs? And one which might proliferate that ICBM technology?
If not (I'm not), what do we do about it? I don't think the answer is another Korean war, but there must be an answer.
1
The president's on the job training continues. Now, we find out that the North Korea is "complicated". What does the current administration think has been going on for the last 60+ years?
What does Trump think Obama, Bushes I and II Clinton have been doing? All have known that China's help has been needed? So Trump supporters now have to forget the campaign rhetoric of the currency manipulating, job stealing, steel dumping Chinese and deal with realpolitik of having them as our allies in controlling.
Since Trump has no real understanding of this or any other issue, lets hope his military advisors maintain their sanity and find peaceful solution to this conflict.
What does Trump think Obama, Bushes I and II Clinton have been doing? All have known that China's help has been needed? So Trump supporters now have to forget the campaign rhetoric of the currency manipulating, job stealing, steel dumping Chinese and deal with realpolitik of having them as our allies in controlling.
Since Trump has no real understanding of this or any other issue, lets hope his military advisors maintain their sanity and find peaceful solution to this conflict.
6
We have two unstable individuals making rash decision without a thought for the devastating consequences of their actions on their citizens. We have to stop Trump from proceeding. He says that his military advisors are making decisions. However, that is not to say that he will escalate things further with a tweet or a snarky comment on Fox. Speak up America before it is too late!
3
Exactly.
I assumed Kim killed his brother because he believed a plan to replace him with his brother had become operational under Trump. This would make sense, but why wasn't the brother protected?
1
On the bright side, the stock market doesn't seem to care, chugging along its merry way.
What does it know?
What does it know?
3
The best option is an international commitee meeting with North Korea to eliminate their nuclear program with the threat of force by the US. That's how this will go down. Even as a liberal, you can't have a nation threatening the US.
1
We are being led by a simpleton who stuffs cake in his mouth and cash in his pockets while playing god with people's lives. How do you take seriously a 70 year old man who is only now noticing that it's not easy addressing the issues confronting the billions of people across our globe. And only noticing it one issue at a time at that.
4
I see little acknowledgment of the fact that, notwithstanding the cannon fodder of our "trip-wire" ground forces in South Korea, Americans have been willing to tolerate an ongoing and existential North Korean threat to South Korea, and by extension to Japan, for many years. Now that the United States has credible fear of a horrific (but still future -- and definitely non-existential) threat from North Korea, we appear ready to recklessly risk total destruction of South Korea and enormous danger to Japan in order to eliminate the threat to the U.S. homeland. Let's be straight: Because of North Korea's admittedly insane bargain, the current U.S. threats aren't about protecting the South Koreans or the Japanese. We're threatening North Korea IN SPITE of what an attack could mean for our longtime Asian allies. If the U.S. miscalculates, it's the South Korean and Japanese people who will suffer the most. That would be "America First" at its most cynical. I pray Trump and "his" generals are mindful of what's at stake.
1
i am confused. Till 2 weeks ago, the nominate and president-elected said not a single word about the immediate threat of NK on US. What has changed in this time?
2
We better let the world know that if a nuke goes off in North Korea it is likely to be their own, not ours.
It seems that a good time for a preemptive strike would be when Kim-Jong has a parade.
It seems that a good time for a preemptive strike would be when Kim-Jong has a parade.
1
Were we ever to fully explain away the hypocrisy of saying "we can have nuclear weapons (and use them), but you may not," perhaps then there would be a better position from which we could communicate.
The cat was let out of the bag many decades ago. Either it is a nuclear weapon free-for-all, or smart minds and communicators make whatever concessions are necessary to have a sane international nuclear weapon policy. That might mean everyone who has the tech can own a few nukes (really bad thinking) or that might mean the world decides they are too destructive for *anyone* to possess (smart, but unlikely).
But to say "you can't; we can" will never, ever be good foreign policy, and it will ultimately end up in violence.
The cat was let out of the bag many decades ago. Either it is a nuclear weapon free-for-all, or smart minds and communicators make whatever concessions are necessary to have a sane international nuclear weapon policy. That might mean everyone who has the tech can own a few nukes (really bad thinking) or that might mean the world decides they are too destructive for *anyone* to possess (smart, but unlikely).
But to say "you can't; we can" will never, ever be good foreign policy, and it will ultimately end up in violence.
1
I understand that the US has examined and analyzed North Korean missiles that fell into the sea at the end of their tests. According to what I read, many of the analyzed missile parts were made by Chinese companies.
President Trump should get back on the telephone with his newfound friend, Xi, and convince him to crack down on companies that supply missile parts to the North Koreans. Not only would a Chinese crackdown retard North Korea's march toward deliverable nuclear arms: it would cut into North Korea's supplying of missiles and other arms to nations like Iran, with a byproduct of tightening trade and currency controls on North Korea.
And by the way, shouldn't the Chinese be worried that North Korean missiles and nuclear weapons could be used against *them*? Even now, North Korean missiles can hit much of China. Isn't it strange that China has been so passive about this?
President Trump should get back on the telephone with his newfound friend, Xi, and convince him to crack down on companies that supply missile parts to the North Koreans. Not only would a Chinese crackdown retard North Korea's march toward deliverable nuclear arms: it would cut into North Korea's supplying of missiles and other arms to nations like Iran, with a byproduct of tightening trade and currency controls on North Korea.
And by the way, shouldn't the Chinese be worried that North Korean missiles and nuclear weapons could be used against *them*? Even now, North Korean missiles can hit much of China. Isn't it strange that China has been so passive about this?
We have a slow motion thinker with a twitter finger in the Big House. Pray for the planet.
3
Cooler heads with actual brains were able to steer the troubled waters of the Cuban Missile crisis.
Not so today with North Korea. Both sides are led by individuals with warped egos and visions of greatness and martyrdom.
War will not solve anything other than the death of potentially millions. Diplomacy must be brought to the table to solve this.
Just because Donald Trump and Kim Jung-un have mutual death wishes, doesn't mean the rest of the world wants to die wth them.
Find the cooler heads with brains to deal with this before we all parish.
Not so today with North Korea. Both sides are led by individuals with warped egos and visions of greatness and martyrdom.
War will not solve anything other than the death of potentially millions. Diplomacy must be brought to the table to solve this.
Just because Donald Trump and Kim Jung-un have mutual death wishes, doesn't mean the rest of the world wants to die wth them.
Find the cooler heads with brains to deal with this before we all parish.
1
too bad theres no way to make trump fans suffer from the war, and spare the rest of you
ahhh, well, thats democracy for you
3
No, this is no Cuban missile crisis, not at all. The Cuban missile crisis was about Cuba right next to the United States. This diplomatic problem is about Korea, which is an ocean away from the US and this problem can be coped with diplomatically by following the Chinese lead.
We need to stop threatening immediately.
We need to stop threatening immediately.
2
While Trump in September 2016 stressed the importance of nuclear proliferation as an issue that will face the next president, on December 22 last year, he and Putin announced - almost simultaneously - that they were going to expand their nuclear arsenals and update the technology. Today he wants to rein in North Korea's nuclear ambition.
Now Trump can put his negotiation skills to the test. In the 1980s when the US and the Soviet Union sought to reach a new agreement following the botched SALT II, Trump told the press that he would do a good job as the US negotiator.
In 1984 - the year Kim Jong-un was born - he said it would take "an hour and a half to learn everything there is to learn about missiles. ... I think I know most of it anyway."
In 1985 again obsessed with nukes he told the AP: "Some people have an ability to negotiate.....It's an art you're basically born with. Either you have it or you don't. I feel for the first time in many years we're in a position to negotiate a really good treaty. I've been involved in studying the issue for years. I feel very knowledgeable about the issue."
Let's hope that Trump would translate words into action.
Now Trump can put his negotiation skills to the test. In the 1980s when the US and the Soviet Union sought to reach a new agreement following the botched SALT II, Trump told the press that he would do a good job as the US negotiator.
In 1984 - the year Kim Jong-un was born - he said it would take "an hour and a half to learn everything there is to learn about missiles. ... I think I know most of it anyway."
In 1985 again obsessed with nukes he told the AP: "Some people have an ability to negotiate.....It's an art you're basically born with. Either you have it or you don't. I feel for the first time in many years we're in a position to negotiate a really good treaty. I've been involved in studying the issue for years. I feel very knowledgeable about the issue."
Let's hope that Trump would translate words into action.
3
A key first step and dilemma: What will the Trump administration do about the tens of thousands of non-military US citizens in South Korea, many of whom are sitting daily within the range of KN artillery (and perhaps those in Japan as well) prior to any significant escalation of military actions against the North? Will we leave them exposed or pull them out prior to any action? What message/warning do we send either way?
1
sorry, but if they warned then the n/k will have advanced notice
they must be sacrificed to the will of god trump
im sure they will all gladly die in the service of the man-boy king, every man jack of them
1
Stumbling our way into the Guns of August with the most inept, unprepared administration in our history. How many, potentially, will die because of the election of this stupid man?
9
Guns of August updated to nukes of April. Ah, progress.
1
The most obvious breakdown of the Cuban missile crisis analogy is of course the difference in distance of those two countries from the U.S.! North Korea is over 6,000 miles away in a different hemisphere, and no one knows if their military can span that distance now, or in the near future. So, there's no need for any sense of urgency here, and that's reflected in the lack of public gloom and unease that one saw after President Kennedy's public announcement of the original crisis. So, Mr. Litwak got his name in the paper, but he's not doing anyone any favors by promoting a crisis atmosphere.
1
Kim has a strategy. This will be to rapidly and massively invade South Korea, only a few miles away, which could be done literally overnight, and essentially use South Koreans as human shields against our vast weaponry. This would compel us to launch a ground war in South Korea, which Kim knows we cannot afford.
5
Seoul is less than 30 miles from the border ,where the NK have thousands
Of tanks and weapons trained on downtown Seoul .
Hundreds of thousands will die within the first hour of conflict
Any who thinks this will not turn nuclear is deluding themselves
China is our only hope of turning the heat down.
Of tanks and weapons trained on downtown Seoul .
Hundreds of thousands will die within the first hour of conflict
Any who thinks this will not turn nuclear is deluding themselves
China is our only hope of turning the heat down.
2
It will turn "horrible" but not necessarily "nuclear"
The DPRK still can't deliver nukes to the US or even to Japan.
So, if it happens in the next three to five years it will be a blood-bath.
But probably a conventional blood-bath.
The DPRK still can't deliver nukes to the US or even to Japan.
So, if it happens in the next three to five years it will be a blood-bath.
But probably a conventional blood-bath.
2
More like Able Archer 83.
Possibly the closest the world ever got to nuclear war, with each side mistrusting and "testing" the other, lots of loose and inflammatory rhetoric, threats of attack, and a very near-miss of a "preemptive"attack by one side (Russia and the Warsaw Block nations) fearing imminent attack by an encircling power (NATO and the US).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Able_Archer_83
Thankfully, after Able Archer, Reagan and Gorbachev, realizing afterward how near the abyss, they'd come dialed back the rhetoric and then negotiated perhaps one of the most significant reductions in nuclear arms in history.
Possibly the closest the world ever got to nuclear war, with each side mistrusting and "testing" the other, lots of loose and inflammatory rhetoric, threats of attack, and a very near-miss of a "preemptive"attack by one side (Russia and the Warsaw Block nations) fearing imminent attack by an encircling power (NATO and the US).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Able_Archer_83
Thankfully, after Able Archer, Reagan and Gorbachev, realizing afterward how near the abyss, they'd come dialed back the rhetoric and then negotiated perhaps one of the most significant reductions in nuclear arms in history.
3
Reagan's Able Archer 83 net effect = positive.
1
Like most NYT readers, I am reflexively anti-Trump. However, after what seems like decades of empty threats, phony lines in the sand, and on-again, off-again sanctions, North Korea just keeps plugging along and now is on the verge of possessing nuclear-armed missiles capable of reaching the U.S. mainland. Really, is that acceptable to anyone? Continued appeasement does not appear to be a good option. Dictators only respect strength, and they fear an unpredictable adversary. This might work out.
20
China's missiles can reach US, so can Russia's. Is that acceptable? Dictators are a threat to their own people. Especially when America goads them into extra military spending. America has twelve aircraft carriers. We look for trouble everywhere.
Yes, it seems the Republicans are a little better at foreign policy than the Democrats, since WW2. Their domestic policy stinks. They see the world through their greedy, money eyes and have no comprehension of the knowledge of how to run a nation as a family, the best paradigm. D or R, you got to agree their is a clear and present danger going on over their in NK.
N. Korea has been a menace for decades. Each succeeding decade the mental illness of its leaders continues to become more severe. Unless a worldwide coalition can come together and economically force China to act, or act in unison with a coalition to bring N.Korea down, I fear the likelihood of a go-it-alone war between Trump and Kim, will make the middle east look like a stroll-in-the-park. This is situation is so complex, Trump has no ability to ever understand the consequences of his actions, if he strikes N. Korea alone.
5
Time to open up NK just like Nixon did with China.
3
The DPRK is not the PRC.
They are not governed by the same principles as the PRC during Nixon's time nor are they at peace with their neighbors.
They are not governed by the same principles as the PRC during Nixon's time nor are they at peace with their neighbors.
Although good advise, why would anyone wish to follow President Nixon's lead? Commenters here have been grounding him into bitter seasoning since he left office. All I can say is that if this ends badly then it is liberals who deserve the full force of things to come. Go Trump!
We've already sent basketball players (akin to the ping pong teams to China).
So far...........not much.
Maybe if we wend Beyoncé and Ivanka there will be a response that facilitates "opening"
So far...........not much.
Maybe if we wend Beyoncé and Ivanka there will be a response that facilitates "opening"
2
Today, tomorrow, ten years from now. There is no way this will end without violence. North Korea's only goal is regime survival. The best way to understand them is to think about them as a Mexican drug cartel or the Mafia. There is no care consideration of life or death of their citizens, anybody else. So the real question is what path will lead to least number of deaths? When is the best time to act? What is the strategy that will lead to the fewest deaths? The US, China, Russia, Japan and South Korea have been playing kick the can for the last 30 years, with things only getting worse. North Korea can only end with violence. Like Libya under Quadaffi, Romania under Ceauscecu, Iraq under Hussein, peaceful transition of power is pure fantasy.
5
We have a confederacy of dunces running our foreign policy. Pence just cares about Russian oil and being the Secretary of Fossil Fuels, Trump does not have a clue since he does not read or analyze, he just goes by the seat of his pants very obviously as to what will get him the most applause. Sadly, he has found this fantastic real toys called WMD's that gets him lots of applause.
We are in dangerous times and I blame Trump and the GOP. If we survive these dark days of Trump the GOP will pay, of course, the thing is IF WE SURVIVE and for that the only thing I can do is pray and I am not a religious person. John McCain where are you? Lindsey Graham, Susan Collins, Angus King, Governor John Kasich, Lisa Murkowski, Rand Paul?????
I just wish the rest of the country and the GOP who used to be moderates would wake up from their coma and act and remove Trump from office for all his crimes and misdemeanors!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We are in dangerous times and I blame Trump and the GOP. If we survive these dark days of Trump the GOP will pay, of course, the thing is IF WE SURVIVE and for that the only thing I can do is pray and I am not a religious person. John McCain where are you? Lindsey Graham, Susan Collins, Angus King, Governor John Kasich, Lisa Murkowski, Rand Paul?????
I just wish the rest of the country and the GOP who used to be moderates would wake up from their coma and act and remove Trump from office for all his crimes and misdemeanors!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
8
First let's say we remove the presumption of grandeur that you keep insisting on. Tell me what's G about this OP of yours. And be specific.
Hard to believe dictators like Kim and Castro do not get assassinated. I wonder how they sleep at night knowing someone is out there trying to bring them down.
1
I believe it is an unfair comparison -- Castro and Kim. Castro did bring some positive social advances to his people with an increased health care, education and cultural focus. From what we know about NK, the welfare of his people is not Kim's priority.
That said, amazingly Castro did survive reportedly over 600 assassination attempts and not passing away until he was 90, I'm guessing he slept pretty well. Unlike Castro, Kim appears to be a full-on, card-carrying sociopath/psychopath -- probably sleeps pretty well too since they feel no remorse or guilt, unfortunately.
That said, amazingly Castro did survive reportedly over 600 assassination attempts and not passing away until he was 90, I'm guessing he slept pretty well. Unlike Castro, Kim appears to be a full-on, card-carrying sociopath/psychopath -- probably sleeps pretty well too since they feel no remorse or guilt, unfortunately.
I think since taking office Mr. Trump realizes this is a delicate and comples issue. The Problem is he spoke with such Bluster on the campaign trail and talk of bombing that his base wants Action. I spoke to one of his supporters this weekend and was told " you will see Trump is going to bomb the heck out of North Korea." This is what irresponible talk gets you.
2
This is exactly what is needed. For years this nasty country has been making unprovoked threats and seeking payments for "protection" all while continuing to develop nuclear and chemical weapon capabilities. The fact that past Presidents not only failed to take action against these thugs but also, in essence, bribed them to try and appease them - kicking the can down the road - shows a complete failure in leadership. It's past time to wipe this bullying regime off the face of the earth.
1
I think this more like a version of THE MOUSE THAT ROARED. Except this is a far more lethal scenario. Unfortunately, Trump doesn't quite grasp the seriousness of the situation, nor does he have any geographical clue about the region and its dense population centers. My first trip to Seoul a couple of years ago opened my eyes to the complexity of the situation. The South Koreans have good reason to worry about any sort of attack from the North and they live with this reminder daily. Take the subway, go into a shopping center, check into a hotel -- you get a quick lesson in what to do in case of an attack. Perhaps Donald should take a few days off from Palm Beach golf and eating the world's best chocolate cake and head to the region to see it up close and personal. Hopefully, before dropping another big bomb. Otherwise, the next faces of injured and killed babies he is so moved by will be the faces of South Korean children.
9
Otherwise, the next faces of injured and killed babies he is so moved by will be the faces of South Korean children.
i am not being glib, id like an honest answer
do you think trump cares a whit about any children other than his own ?
i am not being glib, id like an honest answer
do you think trump cares a whit about any children other than his own ?
3
You really wanted testosterone?
Good luck.
Good luck.
6
There is an excellent documentary of the Kennedys and the Cuban Missle Crisis. He was smart, thoughtful and a superb strategist and tactician. He was battled tested. He understood it was more than might. It involved Sun Tzu's the Art of War thinking. In reteospect, the world never knew just how really dangerous it was.
There were 50,000 Soviet troops, not 5000. There were orders to launch nuclear strikes on Florida. One very very brave Soviet sub commander refused to move into the confrontation.
Imagine Trump in the same situation. Illiterate, bombastic, and utterly unprepared for the same test. We have plumbed the depths of Democracy. We are imperiled. This is how WWI started.
There were 50,000 Soviet troops, not 5000. There were orders to launch nuclear strikes on Florida. One very very brave Soviet sub commander refused to move into the confrontation.
Imagine Trump in the same situation. Illiterate, bombastic, and utterly unprepared for the same test. We have plumbed the depths of Democracy. We are imperiled. This is how WWI started.
6
This is a Trump made crisis designed to distract us from his administration's problems from a lack of legislative progress to the Russian scandal. It's the same reason we sent 59 tomahawk missiles into Syria. The missiles did little to no damage, but the press was easily distracted by Trump's shiny objects. Is North Korea a problem? Yes. Is it a problem that at this time requires that we move to a war footing? No. This is not a Cuban Missile Crisis. North Korea has no missiles that can reach the United States, and given the failure of the latest test, it is doubtful they can strike Japan. The New York Times and the rest of the mainstream media needs to stop taking Trump's bait, and start focusing on Trump's motivations. I'm not interested in sending any of my grandchildren to Korea to die in a Trump made war so he can boost his falling approval rating or stave off impeachment.
13
WOW! I thought I was a lone. Post a comment like you did on a right leaning site and prepare to a newly found traitor to your nation.
Could NOT agree MORE with you! Nailed it!
Could NOT agree MORE with you! Nailed it!
3
No mention here of the fact that kicking this issue down the road for the last twenty years is exactly why we're facing this threat.
"North Korea has no missiles that can reach the US, and given the failure of the latest test, it is doubtful that they can strike Japan." Wow, how naive.
I guess we should just wait until they DO?
"North Korea has no missiles that can reach the US, and given the failure of the latest test, it is doubtful that they can strike Japan." Wow, how naive.
I guess we should just wait until they DO?
This is NOT a Missile crisis like the Cuban one in which Russia placed missiles in Cuba directly threatening our nation during the Cold War. We were confronted by one of the world's three superpowers that had the capability to destroy us. At the same time, we had missiles in Turkey in close proximity to Russia. Kennedy and Kruschev agreed that both nations would remove their respective missiles, thus defusing the Cuban Missile Crisis. North Korea is not a major threat to America and should be managed by exhaustive and ongoing diplomacy to allay feelings of anger and paranoia between our nations. Try to think like a North Korean to better understand their motivations. They are confronted with an American military presence in South Korea. That is enough to instill acute paranoia in the North. The election of Trump threatened the peace in the world. Smarter people than those who elected him exist in the world that understand what an extreme threat to world peace Trump is.
Knowing the dominance of our military and their wanting wars to justify their existence and budget, and the fact that a puppet trained in a military school now leads them, can we really think this situation will not result in conflict? I'm not fool enough to think peace is inevitable. Please impeach Trump on medical grounds. You may save the world.
The United Nations is conspicuously absent. Are they waiting to rubber stamp American action? Do something.
Knowing the dominance of our military and their wanting wars to justify their existence and budget, and the fact that a puppet trained in a military school now leads them, can we really think this situation will not result in conflict? I'm not fool enough to think peace is inevitable. Please impeach Trump on medical grounds. You may save the world.
The United Nations is conspicuously absent. Are they waiting to rubber stamp American action? Do something.
4
The UN: both China and Russia have veto power in the Security Council
Don't hold your breath
Don't hold your breath
I believe this quote says it all:
“After listening for 10 minutes, I realized it’s not so easy,” he said. “It’s not what you would think.”
Umm, being the POTUS is NOT easy, and our nation's Super Power status carries enormous responsibilities, which requires a WISE person to LISTEN to those who have worked tirelessly to gather information, analyze data, and examine all the consequences of a vast array of actions.
Slowly, our Clown-in-Chief is realizing the magnitude of being POTUS-- yet he continues to Tweet like an 8th grader, and the so-called adults around him cannot stop him from blurting out the nonsense that loops around his head. Please, can someone just get him to shut up and at least pretend to be presidential?!?
“After listening for 10 minutes, I realized it’s not so easy,” he said. “It’s not what you would think.”
Umm, being the POTUS is NOT easy, and our nation's Super Power status carries enormous responsibilities, which requires a WISE person to LISTEN to those who have worked tirelessly to gather information, analyze data, and examine all the consequences of a vast array of actions.
Slowly, our Clown-in-Chief is realizing the magnitude of being POTUS-- yet he continues to Tweet like an 8th grader, and the so-called adults around him cannot stop him from blurting out the nonsense that loops around his head. Please, can someone just get him to shut up and at least pretend to be presidential?!?
7
I cannot imagine how the people of South Korea are dealing with this. In stark contrast to their North Korean neighbors, they've built a powerful 21st-century capitalist economy, with world class companies like Samsung, Hyundai, and KIA. All that they have built, and their very lives, are now in the hands of two blustering, insecure adolescents in command of nuclear weapons. For the sake of our children, we need to do whatever is necessary to prevent this from happening again.
4
Channeling Rumsfeld, Trump may not be the president the USA wants in this situation, but he is the president it has.
Hopefully, he will listen to the adults in the White House and to other leaders in the region.
Hopefully, he will listen to the adults in the White House and to other leaders in the region.
I sure hope Trump does *not* channel Rumafeld! Rumsfeld botched the invasion of Saddam's Iraq by not militarily securing the country, and then by appointing a bunch of incompetents and political hacks (some of whom were both) to run the occupation.
It's hard to be calm about nuclear matters with a screwball like Trump in charge, but I don't think this is as much of a crisis as it appears. The DPRK has had nuclear weapons, luckily only primitive, small-yield ones, for 11 years now. If they were going to use one, against South Korea, Japan, and so on, they already would have. If anyone like the U.S. were to attack them, I'm pretty sure they would try to use some nukes, but we don't seem about to do that (although one never knows with Trump).
The real threat is not the DPRK, but China. The DPRK plays all sorts of international incident games with South Korea constantly, but it does not seem interested in actually invading. If the DPRK fired all its nuclear armament at once, and all the birds reached their targets and detonated, millions would die, but only millions, and nearby. They don't have the range to hit the U.S. or India, and their attacking China is inconceivable; there are no other nuclear powers nearby so retaliation would be non-nuclear.
But China has the third largest stockpile, and if the U.S. were to leave them no choice but to launch, that would be game over for civilization. If China were making demands and threats, that would be a Cuban Missile level Crisis.
As it is, Trump the temperamental is quite cordial with China now, perhaps Putin shared his kompromat on Trump with them. This is thus just another queasy saber-rattling event, I think, and we should survive it.
The real threat is not the DPRK, but China. The DPRK plays all sorts of international incident games with South Korea constantly, but it does not seem interested in actually invading. If the DPRK fired all its nuclear armament at once, and all the birds reached their targets and detonated, millions would die, but only millions, and nearby. They don't have the range to hit the U.S. or India, and their attacking China is inconceivable; there are no other nuclear powers nearby so retaliation would be non-nuclear.
But China has the third largest stockpile, and if the U.S. were to leave them no choice but to launch, that would be game over for civilization. If China were making demands and threats, that would be a Cuban Missile level Crisis.
As it is, Trump the temperamental is quite cordial with China now, perhaps Putin shared his kompromat on Trump with them. This is thus just another queasy saber-rattling event, I think, and we should survive it.
“After listening for 10 minutes, I realized it’s not so easy,” he said. “It’s not what you would think. all i could think about was the maraloco chocolate cake. its the most beautiful chocolate cake youve even seen.
2
Why are we blowing things up in Syria, Afghanistan and potentially, N. Korea?
What possible right do we have to incessantly intervene in other nations' affairs throughout the world in such a bullying manner?
This is the basic question that is not being answered by our media or government.
We are not dealing at all with the myriad of horrific problems we have at home, such as the opioid crisis, crumbling infrastructure, totally corrupt political system, and yet we see fit to bomb the hell out of anyone we choose, at a cost of trillions and possibly inciting nuclear war.
To my mind this is insanity.
What possible right do we have to incessantly intervene in other nations' affairs throughout the world in such a bullying manner?
This is the basic question that is not being answered by our media or government.
We are not dealing at all with the myriad of horrific problems we have at home, such as the opioid crisis, crumbling infrastructure, totally corrupt political system, and yet we see fit to bomb the hell out of anyone we choose, at a cost of trillions and possibly inciting nuclear war.
To my mind this is insanity.
4
In the Cuban crisis there were (more or less) rationale actors on both sides.
Threats, bluffs and deals were are carried out with the assumption that the other guy was sane and did not want to be obliterated.
We lack a rational actor on the other side in this instance.
And I can't see a kinetic option for the US that does not run the risk of killing (up to) millions of South Koreans.
In Cuba it was American lives and Russian lives potentially on the line.
If we act pre-emptively we may not be putting too many American lives on te line (some of our troops in SoKor perhaps), but we would betray a good ally.
Unlike Donald, I would not be looking to heat up this situation.
If we can mess up little Kim's rockets and bombs with cyber tools, go for it.
If we can get China to apply serious sanctions (which I doubt) go for it.
But loud saber-rattling seems inadvisable.
Threats, bluffs and deals were are carried out with the assumption that the other guy was sane and did not want to be obliterated.
We lack a rational actor on the other side in this instance.
And I can't see a kinetic option for the US that does not run the risk of killing (up to) millions of South Koreans.
In Cuba it was American lives and Russian lives potentially on the line.
If we act pre-emptively we may not be putting too many American lives on te line (some of our troops in SoKor perhaps), but we would betray a good ally.
Unlike Donald, I would not be looking to heat up this situation.
If we can mess up little Kim's rockets and bombs with cyber tools, go for it.
If we can get China to apply serious sanctions (which I doubt) go for it.
But loud saber-rattling seems inadvisable.
2
the only solution to this is dprk regime change. best option is for china to establish provisional control with removal of kim jong-un and set up chinese style government with eventual replacement with north korean officials unaffiliated with kim jong-un or his family. massive aid can be given in exchange for denuclearization by china/u.s./s.korea/japan. of course the hard part is how to remove un.
1
Dear Nastyboy,
The hard part is not actually removing Un. As Un proved with his own half-brother, assassination is always possible. The hard part, and the reason China won't do this, is how to clean up afterwards. North Korea is mostly starving, almost entirely uneducated, and with an economy solely focused on munitions. Nobody wants to take it over as it would be too expensive to feed and fix, and it has no major valuable resources.
The hard part is not actually removing Un. As Un proved with his own half-brother, assassination is always possible. The hard part, and the reason China won't do this, is how to clean up afterwards. North Korea is mostly starving, almost entirely uneducated, and with an economy solely focused on munitions. Nobody wants to take it over as it would be too expensive to feed and fix, and it has no major valuable resources.
2
The comparison with Cuba has a hidden similarity with why N Korea is so full of hate against the US.
When Cuba allowed Russia to place nuclear weapons and missiles under our nose, it infuriated the Kennedy administration.
What is similar with the N Korea case, is that WE have placed 26,000 highly armed troops right under the nose of N Korea, along with supplying So Korea with our most modern weapons.
Can this type of "imminent fear" on the part of N Korea fuel Kim Jon Un's paranoia?
When Cuba allowed Russia to place nuclear weapons and missiles under our nose, it infuriated the Kennedy administration.
What is similar with the N Korea case, is that WE have placed 26,000 highly armed troops right under the nose of N Korea, along with supplying So Korea with our most modern weapons.
Can this type of "imminent fear" on the part of N Korea fuel Kim Jon Un's paranoia?
Kennell: Add to that the annual huge war games we have with So. Korea close to No. Korea.
If JFK and Cuba are your analogy, you are so far off you're not even wrong.
This seems more like Hitler redux: a madman threatens the world, not just us.
You should brush up on your history--and wake up your brains.
This seems more like Hitler redux: a madman threatens the world, not just us.
You should brush up on your history--and wake up your brains.
5
Dear Lisa Fremont,
I don't think Trump's quite up to Hitler levels yet, although sure he's worrisome. But Kim Jong Chubby hasn't invaded anybody and has no potential to do so, he's not really threatening the world, just rattling his little saber.
I don't think Trump's quite up to Hitler levels yet, although sure he's worrisome. But Kim Jong Chubby hasn't invaded anybody and has no potential to do so, he's not really threatening the world, just rattling his little saber.
1
“After listening for 10 minutes, I realized it’s not so easy,” he said. “It’s not what you would think.”
Which is about as long as Trump's attention span lasts. And no, it's not so easy (surprise) but it is what most any rational, thinking, aware American already realizes even without knowing the details.
Which is about as long as Trump's attention span lasts. And no, it's not so easy (surprise) but it is what most any rational, thinking, aware American already realizes even without knowing the details.
5
When oh when is the Times going to cover the Korea situation with emphasis on diplomacy? Shows of strength raise the risk of war, which is unthinkable. Talking with North Korea has been successful in the past, notably in the lead-up to the Agreed Framework of 1994 and the Six Party Talks accord of 2005. Trump's skewed belief that the Chinese will bail him out shouldn't keep getting a pass, nor should gunboat diplomacy.
Stop banging the war drum.
2
Obviously the problem here is mere jealousy: the "President" wishes that he too was considered the embodiment of a God, to be worshipped and fawned over, no questions asked.
Seriously, let's hope someone in that administration has some sense on the subject.
Seriously, let's hope someone in that administration has some sense on the subject.
1
I find bizarre behavior from the South Koreans when dealing with their northern brothers and sisters. While Mr. Kim bullies the South, the Seoul government recalls their ambassador from Tokyo because of acts that happened 75 years ago. The South desires to reopen the Kasong industrial complex in the North, giving them the cash so badly needed. the daily news in Seoul is full of Japan bashing, yet rarely is afraid to attack the North with the same enthusiasm. Strangely, South Korea sees Japan as more of a threat than Pyongyang. Is this a government we want to defend with American lives?
1
A "hands off" President, singularly uninformed and intellectually lazy, abdicating his responsibility by letting his military take over. A military which apart from all else will have its own bureaucratic and career incentives to launch a war to justify its own existence and bloated budgets. And a "foe" halfway across the world, which will immediately retaliate. Have no fear: America will stand its ground and fight, to the last Korean and Japanese!
2
This boils down to a simple truth: Russian involvement in the outcome of the presidential election? I have no idea what you're talking about...
2
Donald, Kim and Vlad. The three stooges of the Apocalypse.
21
You said, "The fact that Mr. Kim did not conduct a nuclear test over the weekend..."
But, they did conduct a test, and it failed. That doesn't mean they didn't conduct a test.
But, they did conduct a test, and it failed. That doesn't mean they didn't conduct a test.
That was a missile test, not the test of a nuclear device. But missile tests are still banned under the current sanctions regime.
3
but they didnt conduct a NUCLEAR test, miss word parser
2
Testing a nuclear/nonnuclear system is still a test of sorts when you think about it, but don't think too hard about it, And remain in your arm chair political socket
Kim, like ISIS, now have their dream. A US president who'll willingly play into their hands to help boost their own positions with their own people. Nationalism plays both ways. Trump is providing Kim's regime with the perfect propaganda about how Kim is standing up to the big bad evil US president who is threatening North Korea.
The aspect of this which people overlook is, for good or (certainly) bad, North Korea is a sovereign nation with the same legal rights to defend itself like all other sovereign nations. The US claims our nuclear arsenal is for "defensive" purposes, and legally NK as the same right to "defend" itself as the US has done. This is simply "reality" and definitely not a desire to support or defend NK.
If Trump attacks NK, then Trump will have attacked an innocent sovereign nation which has, technically speaking, done nothing more than pursue a path of trying to defend itself against just such a potential attack.
Let us further dress the scene properly. George W Bush declared Iraq, Iran, and NK as the "Axis of Evil". He then proceeded to attack an essentially defenseless (relative to the US) Iraq. Thus George W Bush demonstrated to Iran and NK they better be developing nuclear weapons to defend themselves against the bloated US military if they don't want to live under the threat of the US attacking them.
There has been much nationalistic biased propaganda slung about which has obscured the underlying international realities of the situation.
The aspect of this which people overlook is, for good or (certainly) bad, North Korea is a sovereign nation with the same legal rights to defend itself like all other sovereign nations. The US claims our nuclear arsenal is for "defensive" purposes, and legally NK as the same right to "defend" itself as the US has done. This is simply "reality" and definitely not a desire to support or defend NK.
If Trump attacks NK, then Trump will have attacked an innocent sovereign nation which has, technically speaking, done nothing more than pursue a path of trying to defend itself against just such a potential attack.
Let us further dress the scene properly. George W Bush declared Iraq, Iran, and NK as the "Axis of Evil". He then proceeded to attack an essentially defenseless (relative to the US) Iraq. Thus George W Bush demonstrated to Iran and NK they better be developing nuclear weapons to defend themselves against the bloated US military if they don't want to live under the threat of the US attacking them.
There has been much nationalistic biased propaganda slung about which has obscured the underlying international realities of the situation.
4
Then don't threaten them daily with regime change and sanctions. Folks just remember when Saddam and Gaddafi gave up their nuke programs what the US of A did to them!. NK have the right to defend themselves.
1
How can the President of the United States for god's sakes go into a meeting with the Chinese President not knowing this?
Mr. Trump is clearly new to this kind of dynamic, as he implicitly acknowledged when he volunteered that Xi Jinping, China’s president, had given him what amounted to a compressed seminar in Chinese-North Korean relations. He emerged surprised that Beijing did not have the kind of absolute control over its impoverished neighbor that he insisted it did last year.
“After listening for 10 minutes, I realized it’s not so easy,” he said. “It’s not what you would think.”
Is it possible to impeach someone for sheer incompetence?
Mr. Trump is clearly new to this kind of dynamic, as he implicitly acknowledged when he volunteered that Xi Jinping, China’s president, had given him what amounted to a compressed seminar in Chinese-North Korean relations. He emerged surprised that Beijing did not have the kind of absolute control over its impoverished neighbor that he insisted it did last year.
“After listening for 10 minutes, I realized it’s not so easy,” he said. “It’s not what you would think.”
Is it possible to impeach someone for sheer incompetence?
7
More belligerent posturing along the DMZ. I think it would be much better if Kim Jong-un and Kim Jong-don just sat down together and made a deal; after all, they have so much in common.
1
In the nuclear era, from FDR through Obama most Americans were comfortable with the guy at the helm of our "Ship of State"
“After listening for 10 minutes, I realized it’s not so easy,” he said. “It’s not what you would think.”
That statement by this so called President is just simply astonishing!
Combine that with his recent Chocolate Cake comment and the only question I can ask my fellow American's is;
"Feel Safe with who we have at the wheel?"
“After listening for 10 minutes, I realized it’s not so easy,” he said. “It’s not what you would think.”
That statement by this so called President is just simply astonishing!
Combine that with his recent Chocolate Cake comment and the only question I can ask my fellow American's is;
"Feel Safe with who we have at the wheel?"
6
he doesnt even know what country hes attacking
“Our [military] technology, our equipment, is better than anybody by a factor of five,” Trump said. “I mean, what we have in terms of technology — nobody can even come close to competing. Now we’re gonna start getting it because you know the military has been cut back and depleted so badly by the past administration and by the war in Iraq, which was another disaster. So what I said [to Xi] is ‘we’ve just launched 59 missiles heading to Iraq.’”
“Our [military] technology, our equipment, is better than anybody by a factor of five,” Trump said. “I mean, what we have in terms of technology — nobody can even come close to competing. Now we’re gonna start getting it because you know the military has been cut back and depleted so badly by the past administration and by the war in Iraq, which was another disaster. So what I said [to Xi] is ‘we’ve just launched 59 missiles heading to Iraq.’”
1
In an interview with Fox Business, Trump offered his first account of how he had broken the news to Xi Jinping as they dined at his Mar-a-Lago estate in Florida at the start of a two-day bridge-building summit last Thursday.
“I was sitting at the table. We had finished dinner. We are now having dessert. And we had the most beautiful piece of chocolate cake that you have ever seen. And President Xi was enjoying it,” Trump said.
“And I was given the message from the generals that the ships are locked and loaded. What do you do? And we made a determination to do it. So the missiles were on the way.
“And I said: ‘Mr President, let me explain something to you … we’ve just launched 59 missiles, heading to Iraq [sic] … heading toward Syria and I want you to know that.
“I was sitting at the table. We had finished dinner. We are now having dessert. And we had the most beautiful piece of chocolate cake that you have ever seen. And President Xi was enjoying it,” Trump said.
“And I was given the message from the generals that the ships are locked and loaded. What do you do? And we made a determination to do it. So the missiles were on the way.
“And I said: ‘Mr President, let me explain something to you … we’ve just launched 59 missiles, heading to Iraq [sic] … heading toward Syria and I want you to know that.
1
Kim Jong-un and Donald Trump are among a handful of the most unfit, unqualified and sadly unstable world leaders today. But perhaps scariest of all, they both have nuclear weapons.
The difference is the North Korean people had no choice. Americans proved how truly unenlightened we are by actually electing such a dufus to our country's highest office--and then allowing him to remain (when there are ample grounds to remove him).
Nukes and coal. Less access to education. Less health care. My embarrassment for my country continues to hit new highs as Trump and his minions reach new lows.
The difference is the North Korean people had no choice. Americans proved how truly unenlightened we are by actually electing such a dufus to our country's highest office--and then allowing him to remain (when there are ample grounds to remove him).
Nukes and coal. Less access to education. Less health care. My embarrassment for my country continues to hit new highs as Trump and his minions reach new lows.
5
This is all about survival for them. If Sadam Hussain had a nuke he'd still be in power. Every two bit thug knows this.
2
Well, it is already a real crisis though it is hard to sort the wheat from the chaff thanks to our very needy, egocentric President Trump who has programmed the press to give him the spotlight 24/7... But when the word nuclear comes into the conversation we need to listen.
So the USA is hinting at an ability to take out this threat. If that's the case, Obama's people developed this ability and kept it quiet, though they hinted at a drawer-full of options. My guess? Some incredibly sophisticated satellites hovering above the Korean Peninsula. Missile guidance systems and controls susceptible. Lasers? Yeah, there you go.
But years after the Cuban Missile crisis, we still have one simple premise; nuclear weapons are like hand grenades... "Almost" does count, times about a billion. And North Korea didn't develop this nuclear program or their sophisticated missile systems on their own. If there is a nuclear explosion on the peninsula, the prevailing winds on the Korean Peninsula in the summer are southerly, but in the Winter they blow strong and they blow northwesterly towards Russia and China.
This is the Cuban missile crisis, but happening on Russia and China's doorstep.... And Japan's as well. And Japan's take today?
"Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said his government was making contingency plans in the event of a humanitarian crisis, should the US respond to North Korea's refusal to abandon its nuclear missile program."
Refugees? Right... Remember Chernobyl?
So the USA is hinting at an ability to take out this threat. If that's the case, Obama's people developed this ability and kept it quiet, though they hinted at a drawer-full of options. My guess? Some incredibly sophisticated satellites hovering above the Korean Peninsula. Missile guidance systems and controls susceptible. Lasers? Yeah, there you go.
But years after the Cuban Missile crisis, we still have one simple premise; nuclear weapons are like hand grenades... "Almost" does count, times about a billion. And North Korea didn't develop this nuclear program or their sophisticated missile systems on their own. If there is a nuclear explosion on the peninsula, the prevailing winds on the Korean Peninsula in the summer are southerly, but in the Winter they blow strong and they blow northwesterly towards Russia and China.
This is the Cuban missile crisis, but happening on Russia and China's doorstep.... And Japan's as well. And Japan's take today?
"Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said his government was making contingency plans in the event of a humanitarian crisis, should the US respond to North Korea's refusal to abandon its nuclear missile program."
Refugees? Right... Remember Chernobyl?
2
What about Chernobyl… I was in Europe when that happened, in fact I was in the northern part of Sweden where they detected The fall out, sleeping out on the ground in the forest; and I have no problems today, (and especially at night) I can see everything clearly through my (stupid) American-Standard brand Transparenta-View (tm) head up the patootie – naval viewing system… A medical miracle!
The first step to defuse this artificial, blown-out-of-proportion 'crisis' is for the US leadership to show, that it sincerely is seeking peace and not confrontation.
Instead of veiled and direct threats, attempts to intimidate, all of which will make the NK feel even more cornered and therefore more determined to resist, how about the following:
The US should propose to convene and possibly even host a 5-party peace-conference, under the auspices of the UN, with the participation of the 2 Koreas, Japan and China, with the aim of 'defusing tensions' on the peninsula. No preset agenda, no focusing on NK alone, but a frank and open discussion, with all participants being able to air their grievances.
The ideal timing for such a conference should be put for after the upcoming South-Korean presidential elections, where according to polls, the more conciliatory and less aggressive candidate seems to be favoured.
It is certainly worth a try.
Instead of veiled and direct threats, attempts to intimidate, all of which will make the NK feel even more cornered and therefore more determined to resist, how about the following:
The US should propose to convene and possibly even host a 5-party peace-conference, under the auspices of the UN, with the participation of the 2 Koreas, Japan and China, with the aim of 'defusing tensions' on the peninsula. No preset agenda, no focusing on NK alone, but a frank and open discussion, with all participants being able to air their grievances.
The ideal timing for such a conference should be put for after the upcoming South-Korean presidential elections, where according to polls, the more conciliatory and less aggressive candidate seems to be favoured.
It is certainly worth a try.
3
“After listening for 10 minutes, I realized it’s not so easy,” he said. “It’s not what you would think.”
Trump is making fun of his audience on purpose.
Trump is making fun of his audience on purpose.
2
Forget the Cuban Missile Crisis. Remember the lessons of the Cold War. Absent first strike capability, the firing of a nuclear weapon inevitably results in the annihilation of the aggressor. Kim faces that essential truth. To believe that he will attack the US, you must believe that he is ready to commit national suicide.
Our understanding of Kim is not what it might be. But Khrushchev, who liked to pound tables, got it. An attack upon the most powerful nation on earth is nothing short of insanity. Perhaps Kim is insane. If so, nothing can help us. But if he's not insane, this is just a bunch of familiar posturing taken to a new level.
Our understanding of Kim is not what it might be. But Khrushchev, who liked to pound tables, got it. An attack upon the most powerful nation on earth is nothing short of insanity. Perhaps Kim is insane. If so, nothing can help us. But if he's not insane, this is just a bunch of familiar posturing taken to a new level.
1
Remember more about the cold war as you seem to be missing the truly deviant and crazy bums the human race can produce. Just as we saw the sum we thought expunged from our military after Vietnam come back to life because they were always there in Iraq, the Chinese are still the Chinese and the crazy folks who were so paranoid and aggressive towards the world are still there under the thin veil of calmness and stability they have to project now that they are so wealthy and involved in the world economy.
That said by the very same principle they know we do not wish to destroy them utterly as we also fear the unknowns of such a result and that is where these Chinese antics, through their proxy North Korea are directed. It is intended to lower our image, make us appear less than optimum etc. Any negative press on us is good for them and their phony enforced by the rd army stability. If they can go on fronting as calm and composed they think they win, and to short term thinkers they do.
That said by the very same principle they know we do not wish to destroy them utterly as we also fear the unknowns of such a result and that is where these Chinese antics, through their proxy North Korea are directed. It is intended to lower our image, make us appear less than optimum etc. Any negative press on us is good for them and their phony enforced by the rd army stability. If they can go on fronting as calm and composed they think they win, and to short term thinkers they do.
I agree that N. Korea is not going to attack us. The fear is that Trump will attack N. Korea. Even if both sides stick to conventional weapons millions will die.
It doesn't matter so much that Kim is insane. It matters so much more that Trump is stupid.
It doesn't matter so much that Kim is insane. It matters so much more that Trump is stupid.
"To believe that he will attack the US, you must believe that he is ready to commit national suicide."
Sadly, this would not be a unique incident in the history of the human race.
Sadly, this would not be a unique incident in the history of the human race.
Two immature, macho leaders. What could go wrong?
10
It worries me that Trump has so many generals in his cabinet. They're worthy and responsible men, to be sure, but when we have a military hammer in our hands, everything becomes a nail to hit with military action (witness Syria and Afghanistan most recently). Add to that a US president who has problems with impulse control, and we have an unstable and threatening posture.
The Chinese generally act responsibly and cautiously in their own interests. Trump must explore multilateral diplomacy. Menacing statements and unilateral military action should be the last options in an area where China, South Korea, and Japan lie in such close geographic proximity to North Korea.
The Chinese generally act responsibly and cautiously in their own interests. Trump must explore multilateral diplomacy. Menacing statements and unilateral military action should be the last options in an area where China, South Korea, and Japan lie in such close geographic proximity to North Korea.
3
Pence warned N>korea that the US is going to run out of patience. What does John Wayne Trump want to do? Attack N.Korea so Kim will than attack 14 millin Seoul?
2
If Kim would, and we know he would, attack South Koreans, killing potentially millions, for what the US does to him, what will he do to us whenever he can? And he is getting close. Sometimes there is no good answer. I live on the west coast. All the centuries of wars we have fought for this country to exist as it does today, what does it mean if the first madman with nuclear weapons can threaten and eventually carry out a nuclear strike on the US mainland?
Beyond the usual blaming and bashing Trump there is not one idea here that hasn't already been tried repeatedly over the past 30 years and several presidents to reel NK in. Nothing has worked to reduce the regime's belligerency and they have shown that they are willing to attack unprovoked. NK is a useful foil for Russia and China to keep the US and it's allies occupied and threatened, so they do nothing except talk about being calm and then block anything we propose at the useless UN to keep it a stalemate.
Cuban Missile Crisis? really? Do we need inflated rhetoric from the mainline press when we can't tell facts from fakes in the rest of the universe?
China does not want a "situation" on its border and neither do we.
China does not want a "situation" on its border and neither do we.
2
Trump of course knows about sacrifice in war. He evaded sacrifice not once but five times in the Viet Nam war ... a draft dodger par excellence while over 50,000 of his fellow americans let it all go as he carried on his hedonistic life style with absolutely no regrets or second thoughts. That this guy is calling the shots on military action affecting millions is appalling!
11
Sorry America north Korea is nuclear and there is nothing you can do about it. If you attack the price will be incalculable, etc,. In fact it could lead to nuclear war with China and the world will end as we know it. We have to live with it just like we live with Pakistan and India. It s not the end of the world so move on trump,whoyou could not have a worse leader. A coward who would not fight when his country called on him but now wants to show what a tough guy he he is. All he is is a coward and a fraud.
7
During the Vietnam War, the US declined invading North Vietnam. This was written about at the time pro and con, but the main reason was we didn't want to force the Chinese hand as had been the case during the Korean conflict. This is one of the reasons we see China as a possible aid in applying economic pressure but also political pressure on the North Koreans to abandon their nuclear efforts. I don't see where things have changed very much other than in the nuclear calculations. A US preemptive strike risks not only involving the whole of the Korean peninsula but also taking the nuclear genie out of the bottle and ultimately might invite a great powers conflagration. We were wise to stay away from it in Vietnam and walk away. We have probably already lost the opportunity to destroy Kim's nuclear weapons. The North Koreans are right, if you have nuclear weapons and can threaten the South and possibly the US that should at least guarantee that a conventional strike is out of the question for now. Negotiation is the only avenue and should be vigorously pursued.
3
Regarding: "All the elements of the North Korean nuclear crisis —" you are forgetting one thing. The Cuban Missile Crisis has already happened, and we can LEARN from it. Specifically, we can see, in retrospect, how nasty rhetoric can become, and how immature we humans are at managing hostilities.
Humanity::: Learn from history, or you will be bound to repeat it. And this time, we may not be so fortunate, as we were with Cuban. That time we had the Kennedys to manage the crisis. This time, we do not.
Donald Trump is no Jack Kennedy.
Humanity::: Learn from history, or you will be bound to repeat it. And this time, we may not be so fortunate, as we were with Cuban. That time we had the Kennedys to manage the crisis. This time, we do not.
Donald Trump is no Jack Kennedy.
10
What worries me most about the U.S./North Korea standoff is the leadership on both sides. Both Donald Trump and Kim Jong-un are impulsive, and they think first of themselves. They are both leaders who would not be in the position they hold were they not heirs. And I question their judgement. I don't think that it would take much for Kim Jong-un to launch an attack on South Korea and even Japan. And in Mr. Trump's case, he thinks he is a genius at making deals, but frankly we cannot afford the equivalent of one of his bankruptcies. He takes high risks and then expects other people to pay for them. There's a good reason that the banks in New York City won't lend him money.
7
Interesting about the banks
For sure, a new war will be starting within Trump's first term. It is a complete shame that all other US presidents let NK grow for all this time. If your enemy is making up weapons and clearly say they aim to destroy you, should you wait until he pulls the trigger? Let us not fool ourselves, all possibles options on NK narrowed to one: war. The very essence of NK government is the radical americaphobia. There can not be patience, diplomacy or whatever. They want US dead as a first step to take the entire world, though it would be funny imagining all global lands being grabbed by a starving society. Deep inside, Trump is aware the start of this war is at his hands. His predecessors omissions have come to him as a heavy burden. And any smart observer knows he secretly hinted to the Chinese leader of the imminent war. It's not a coincidence Xi Jinping moved troops to the NK border. Trump won't and can't say it in public, but the war is about to start. Wars are never public declared. First they are planned and designed, and only in the last minutes they are publicly declared.
Anyway, as a Brazilian, I wish all the best to the US Armed Forces. They are the only ones capable of wiping out this growing beast.
Anyway, as a Brazilian, I wish all the best to the US Armed Forces. They are the only ones capable of wiping out this growing beast.
3
Thank you.
Since we seem to know everything that goes on there in N Korea and anytime they test fire anything out into the ocean, can't we just continue to and blast whatever they may shoot at anyone as soon as it leaves the ground? It's like we're Goliath and they're David yet we're the ones scared to death. What good is all our technology and weaponry if it's worthless defensively. If they knew whatever nuclear missile they developed would be detonated directly over their own heads, maybe they wouldn't want to develop it.
Not one mention of South Korea in this article. One would assume that South Korea will bear the horror and pain of any military confrontation that is bandied about by China, North Korea and the US and yet it is hardly ever mentioned.
Vice President Pence is in Seoul. I hope that this signals that South Korea is no longer being ignored. We treat South Korea as 'Oh yeah, we have to tell them we are going to ...' moments before we decide something. Why not get South Korea involved to a much greater degree in any and all diplomatic efforts?
Let's hope Pence has successful talks.
Vice President Pence is in Seoul. I hope that this signals that South Korea is no longer being ignored. We treat South Korea as 'Oh yeah, we have to tell them we are going to ...' moments before we decide something. Why not get South Korea involved to a much greater degree in any and all diplomatic efforts?
Let's hope Pence has successful talks.
2
In case you haven't been reading, south Korea has a little teeny bit of a leadership crisis right now; our military is fortunately stationed there, most likely on high alert.
It really is an easy decision to shoot millions of dollars of missiles into a Syrian base that has been (vacated by Russians who were forewarned) because Assad can't fight back. That was no more than a publicity stunt. North Korea is another story. Although they are inept they can level the Seoul metropolitan area in a quick time. Anything short of a Syria attack on NK will make this administration look weak. Hopefully, our military leaders took that into account and know Kim Jong Un as well as they think they do when they advised the President. We are playing right into China's hands.
3
Wow! We have a child in trump who is at best "learning" on the job. I'm glad to read he had the ability to listen for 10 minutes straight and again recognized that the situation is more complex then he thought. Now trump has drawn a "red line" for NK to cross and what happens when they cross it?
Two children with weapons of mass destruction!
What about the Russia investigation? What about the tax returns?
Two children with weapons of mass destruction!
What about the Russia investigation? What about the tax returns?
8
I don't know where North Korea is getting the materials and know-how to make these weapons, but I assume from China, where they get everything. Thus, is seems that it would be very easy for China to put an end to this weapons build-up.
They may have their reasons for not wanting to do that, but it seems to me that's where the pressure should be applied. Attempting to interrupt that supply chain should be job one.
They may have their reasons for not wanting to do that, but it seems to me that's where the pressure should be applied. Attempting to interrupt that supply chain should be job one.
People forget that the Cuban Missile Crisis resulted from Soviet moves to counter American belligerence and the deployment of US missiles on the Soviet border in Turkey threatening their oil supply. As crazy as the North Korean leadership is, there is some logic to their wishing to counter the large US forces facing them.
Sabre rattling to distract the public from the White House's Russian ties. Nothing more.
4
I'm gonna' begin with the biggest differences in these situations, meaning of course that I pretty much disagree strongly with pretty much any comparative to our "dust up" with Nikita.
1) The October crisis occurred in "our backyard", we get a really big advantage in ability to react quickly, prepare/logistics right there.
Now; We're, basically on the far side of the world with only depots of sorts i.e., Japan the Phillipines to either resupply, with quick reaction limited to nearby forces in reserve.
2) Our leadership of the time, while young were politically "very aware" with a strong leader (heroically awarded President, WWII) who had fought more than one tough battle to become a U.S. Senator.
Now; Where to begin, our leadership politically is non-existent, and certainly Mr. Trump has no military experience..let alone being an awarded hero.
3) In the '62 crisis our European allies along with NATO made it possible to direct our Cuban effort completely with no ambivalence.
Now; Relying almost completely on a trading partner, whom our executive leadership has repeatedly insulted.
Our ability to make this particular N. Korea situation come to a non-military close is very much in question. And if China does, yet even more to help hold Un in check (were that even possible) doesn't that mean that Mr. trump has spent all his international diplomatic capital in one shot. And so it goes thru' out the world with this administration..failure after failure on the world stage.
1) The October crisis occurred in "our backyard", we get a really big advantage in ability to react quickly, prepare/logistics right there.
Now; We're, basically on the far side of the world with only depots of sorts i.e., Japan the Phillipines to either resupply, with quick reaction limited to nearby forces in reserve.
2) Our leadership of the time, while young were politically "very aware" with a strong leader (heroically awarded President, WWII) who had fought more than one tough battle to become a U.S. Senator.
Now; Where to begin, our leadership politically is non-existent, and certainly Mr. Trump has no military experience..let alone being an awarded hero.
3) In the '62 crisis our European allies along with NATO made it possible to direct our Cuban effort completely with no ambivalence.
Now; Relying almost completely on a trading partner, whom our executive leadership has repeatedly insulted.
Our ability to make this particular N. Korea situation come to a non-military close is very much in question. And if China does, yet even more to help hold Un in check (were that even possible) doesn't that mean that Mr. trump has spent all his international diplomatic capital in one shot. And so it goes thru' out the world with this administration..failure after failure on the world stage.
1
Bully for President could do us all in..It certainly increases hate in the world Violence begets violence and bullying begets bullying...Crazy bunch of Evangelicals put Trump in office..and they are global warming denialists
1
And yet the stock market continues to climb. Don't understand it.
1
April 17., 2017
Quarantine Chinese trade to North Korea on selected items in agreement to stop all missile development and freeze all NK trades of its war technologies. That's the best for all parties and with 24/7 permanent monitoring by Asia Pacific parties.
Quarantine Chinese trade to North Korea on selected items in agreement to stop all missile development and freeze all NK trades of its war technologies. That's the best for all parties and with 24/7 permanent monitoring by Asia Pacific parties.
1
This is not defending our nation. It's a chorus of insanity rising to a crescendo.
3
Did anybody in the administration check with Google to get some insight into the anxious American psyche last weekend? Clearly, google is one thing we didn't have during the Cuban missile crisis. However over the weekend, for those that didn't put their frightened heads in the sand, Google searches for global wind directions, bunker building, etc- fear of nuclear fallout -must have been way up. Its time for something besides fear to bind us globally, we have the capacity now to bond as an electronically connected populace, lets make certain it not over tragedy that we find a common humanity.
1
Trump is not as subtle as JFK, but it was his red-line naval quarantine blockade that stopped the USSR from proceeding. JFK was counseled by General Curtis LeMay to nuke them and he pushed that advice away.
My question is Trump thinks aggression is ALWAYS the answer, and there are many generals who think so too: take NK out now before his missiles can reach our mainland. Much of Trump is bluster and so is Kim. But 2 fools can a war make.
My question is Trump thinks aggression is ALWAYS the answer, and there are many generals who think so too: take NK out now before his missiles can reach our mainland. Much of Trump is bluster and so is Kim. But 2 fools can a war make.
1
"A mix of national ambitions, personal ego and deadly weapons is creating opportunities for miscalculation." Welcome to Trumpland.
Why no mention of the annual war games between the US and South Korea that began in early March. Aren't these a provacation?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-sends-drones-assassination-squad-to-sout...
http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-sends-drones-assassination-squad-to-sout...
Plus cyber-attacks which are really undeclared, illegal acts of war to this lawyer.
1
This is one of many crises that will come up under Trump while he plays golf at one of resorts. All he knows is how to threaten and insult his enemies. He has no idea what to do.
3
PROSECUTE RUSSIAGATE! Enough with the red-herrings. Benedict Donald is flopping around all over the place with ploys to divert our attention from RUSSIAGATE because there is his downfall.
3
Nonsense. Cuban Missile Crisis resulted from RUSSIA putting offensive nuclear weapons 90 miles from the USA.
North Korea is no threat to the United States and the morons are governing America (MAGA) administration is trying to CAUSE an incident to give them a causes belli.
North Korea is no threat to the United States and the morons are governing America (MAGA) administration is trying to CAUSE an incident to give them a causes belli.
2
"A ‘Cuban Missile Crisis in Slow Motion’ in North Korea" while Mike Dunce is promising what he cannot deliver. What a bunch of incompetent Neandertals.
2
The concerns expressed in this NY Times story are legitimate. The problem is that the solutions attempted to prevent the North Korea acquisition of nuclear weapons and missiles that strike the US or our major allies in Asia have been pursued and have failed over the past two decades. Apparently the President is following advice to maximize pressure on China so that they "handle" the North Korean problem. If this works we will all be glad. Unfortunately the choices now have a much shorter time horizon due to the progress North Korea has made in developing nuclear weapons and long range missiles threatening our population. I think we all should consider the consequences if that happens and not just use this situation as another opportunity to express anger about Trump winning the election.
15
China wants to be a world power without actually wielding that power once in a while.
What makes you believe "we all should consider..." Why not face the cold, hard, reality that the previous administration copped out on Syria and North Korea?
We probably will have to task our generals to come up with a plan to take out NK in the best way. I don't see any future in appeasing NK. Stop them, by any means necessary, right now. China and Russia should know this and assist, as their lives are fully at risk too, and they should know this.
This is a totally different ballgame.A play in which no one really knows what's going on inside North Korea and inside the impermeable mind of Kim Jong Un and his blood brother in deviousness:CHINA.
Sometimes strange things can happen,as they say expect the unexpected.
During the Cuban Missile Crisis a young Kennedy had a pathway to talk to Nikita Khrushchev.
There exists no way to talk directly to Kim Jong Un except through his benevolent intercessor,China.
What you know about Kim is what is dished out by China.
North Korea cannot be disarmed without China.
The only way for China to come to senses is through Trade.
Sometimes strange things can happen,as they say expect the unexpected.
During the Cuban Missile Crisis a young Kennedy had a pathway to talk to Nikita Khrushchev.
There exists no way to talk directly to Kim Jong Un except through his benevolent intercessor,China.
What you know about Kim is what is dished out by China.
North Korea cannot be disarmed without China.
The only way for China to come to senses is through Trade.
12
China and Russia are kidding themselves if they think they can stand on the sidelines and watch US and NK nuke it out. Once the bombs start flying, they will perish as well.
The N Korea problem has been going on for 25 years. Its not reached the point they are getting close to being able to whack us with an ICBM with a nuke warhead. Did you notice they were prepared to set off another nuke test but did not when they saw Trump wont tolerate that crap. Honestly, we need to get behind the president and hope this problem is finished once and for all.
1
We got those huge stockpiles of missiles and stuff all just aging past the use by date; why not use 'em, or lose 'em, with a total overwhelming use of force… Kind a like Schwarzkopf did , On the sand.
In today’s press reports, it is common to imply that the U.S. cannot be hit by North Korean nuclear bombs until they have intercontinental missiles with small nuclear warheads. We are, in fact, right now in danger of a horrific and devastating attack. For fear of even minuscule encouragement I will not venture into details.
I desperately hope that our government does not share in this lack of imagination and is considering all North Korean options and the effects of Trump truculence on their probability.
I desperately hope that our government does not share in this lack of imagination and is considering all North Korean options and the effects of Trump truculence on their probability.
I'd feel much better about a positive solution to this complex situation if our President cared more about global affairs than how "beautiful" he found a piece of chocolate cake.
The ignorance, jingoism, and bombast on both sides of this equation are terrifying. What I wouldn't give for a real, knowledgeable adult in the Oval Office right now.
The ignorance, jingoism, and bombast on both sides of this equation are terrifying. What I wouldn't give for a real, knowledgeable adult in the Oval Office right now.
Cuba was, is, 90 miles from U.S. territory. North Korea is nowhere near a U.S. possession or state. North Korea is only a problem for the locals none of whom are called Americans.
1
Dear Mr. engineering, do you do read mediation and radiation clean up in your business? I may need some out here out west after sometime
Just what part of the "Intercontinental" in "ICBM" do you fail to understand?
Pretty Obvious ...many are not familiar with that part of the world since there are TONS of North Korean Artillery Pieces with few miles from the South Korean Capital SEOUL ...in order words just minutes away from it.
When you live there THE SITUATION has a Completely Different Sense of Urgency!
Specially when the North Korean Government is sooooo Unstable at the Moment.
Even Great China Fears It.
When you live there THE SITUATION has a Completely Different Sense of Urgency!
Specially when the North Korean Government is sooooo Unstable at the Moment.
Even Great China Fears It.
1
Once again, Trump has gotten what he wants. We have all forgotten about Russia now.
1
While Trump is definitely using this situation to distract from his Russia problems, I do not think millions of Americans, including members of the Senate Intelligence Committee have forgotten about the Trump-Russia Cover-up.
1
Can't let North Korea figure out how to miniaturize and put a device on the tip of a missile. China and Russia will be more than thrilled to let the U.S. do the heavy lifting to keep this from happening, though we'll all have to withstand the faux saber-rattling in the meantime. In this sense, there is no 'missile crisis' in the same sense of the Cuban variety from the 1960s.
I watched the video included with this article before and after I read the article. Leni Riefenstahl, if she were alive, would be aghast at how the symbolic imagery of her documentaries is being plagiarized. It is horrifying to wake up and realize that the world has a leader in North Korea emulating Hitler and the U.S.A. has a national leader who is incompetent and unstable. Has humanity not gained any insights since the past destruction caused by World Wars? This is NOT a computer game folks. If there is an actual military altercation, there will be no opportunity to "reboot" or erase the destruction that is caused. Most of the people of North Korea are starving. It's time for world leaders from countries throughout the World to emerge to guide and lead humanity away from this insanity. Donald Trump, his son-in-law, his daughter and Mr. Bannon are NOT the answer. We must all think of coming generations and act and insist that we the people, leave our ego's at the door and learn the ways of peace.
3
The United States took a very different approach to the Cuban Missile Crisis than what has been done with North Korea. Obviously, the sanctions against Mr. Kim and his predecessors have failed to accomplish what JFK did.
Indeed, idle threats against the Grandfather fostered his nuclear ambitions whereas JFK carefully deliberated the Cuban situation and took calculated military action causing the Soviets to back down.
The only viable diplomatic avenue to the ongoing crisis involves a strategic economic partnership with China. Sadly, our current President appears less than capable of effective diplomacy.
We should expect the worst since North Korea is serious about their goals while Mr. Trump tries to figure things out. But there can be no question the time has come to put an end to Boy Kim's agenda of insanity. The goal is clear but how this goal is accomplished remains to be seen.
Indeed, idle threats against the Grandfather fostered his nuclear ambitions whereas JFK carefully deliberated the Cuban situation and took calculated military action causing the Soviets to back down.
The only viable diplomatic avenue to the ongoing crisis involves a strategic economic partnership with China. Sadly, our current President appears less than capable of effective diplomacy.
We should expect the worst since North Korea is serious about their goals while Mr. Trump tries to figure things out. But there can be no question the time has come to put an end to Boy Kim's agenda of insanity. The goal is clear but how this goal is accomplished remains to be seen.
Trump mistakenly believes that acting tough makes him more presidential. Just one more indication of his sophomoric approach to leadership. He may very well be the least nuanced man to ever hold this office and in this day and age, that is flat out dangerous.
4
Any talks would be totally unproductive and designed to make the US look silly or bad. There are but two alternatives, total destruction or singular elimination.
I'm not convinced that the nuclear threat of North Korea is sanctioned given the fact that China isn't/hasn't taken a more active approach in the situation. It leads me to believe that China, the US and South Korea have, or are close to having, the techonlogical means to control North Korea's rocket engines. Large, nuclear war heads are essentially useless without the means to successfully deliver them to their targets. I think equally concerning to China and South Korea is the aftermath of an event that takes out Kim Jung Un, what to do with the 25 million North Koreans? China certainly doesn't want an democracy on it's border and South Korea would be hard pressed to adopt such as backward people and their country.
1
The South Koreans would be joyous at the freeing of their brethren in the North and the reunification of the Korean Peninsula. It would be analogous to the reunification of Germany. There would be some difficulties to overcome in bringing the Northern Koreans into the 21st Century from the socialist wasteland that exists now, but they would not be insurmountable.
3
North Korea remains notorious for ballistic missile proliferation over decades, and if further unchecked, may emerge as a nuclear weapons proliferator in a short span of time.
Sayan.
Sayan.
1
Kim is always referred to as an unstable, volatile madman. What if he isn't, and that is just an act? I wish someone involved in this debacle would say, "He must want something. Where is there a rational basis for some negotiation?" I believe Bill Richardson has offered to be the go-between. Kim has been totally demonized by press, and maybe he is a crazed lunatic, but I doubt it. There is probably some method to this madness. I hope one of the adults in charge figures out what.
1
Thank you Neville.
2
“After listening for 10 minutes, I realized it’s not so easy,” he said. “It’s not what you would think.”
Think this quote can sum up every simplistic remedy Trump has ever put forth.
Think this quote can sum up every simplistic remedy Trump has ever put forth.
2
Frankly I amazed his attention span stretched to 10 minutes. Seriously. He's into chaotic free-association.
1
What happened to his thundering campaign rhetoric "America cannot be the policeman of the world?!"
Seriously, he will start a nuclear conflict with another man-child leader to deflect attention from his floundering administration and Russia scandals?
Seriously, he will start a nuclear conflict with another man-child leader to deflect attention from his floundering administration and Russia scandals?
2
buy mr. kim and mr. trump a one way ticket on the next space vehicle to the moon. then let sane people sit down and communicate. two 'leaders' who are basically crazy.
The North Korean situation and Cuba are very different. Those missiles are not Chinese, do not reflect the policy of the Chinese government, they are not under Chinese control. Fortunately no one will gain from armed conflict in the region, so when push really comes to shove, the Chinese will help. Although they may never admit to it. That's the way it works.
Name the leader of a troubled nation who's eager to start a war in order to consolidate his power:
a) King Jong Un
b) Vladimir Putin
c) Donald Trump
d) all of the above
a) King Jong Un
b) Vladimir Putin
c) Donald Trump
d) all of the above
5
A key difference from the Cuban missile crisis: Khrushchev was rational. N. Korea lives in an alternate reality.
1
This is plain & simple Diversionary Tactics of the so-called President. North Korea is no more than the proverbial fig leaf for the so-called President. There is nothing on bringing back Jobs from China, on Trade Deals, on Infrastructure, Nothing !! Ditto the airstrike on Syria - shrugged off indifferently even by Syria ! The peoples of the World at staring down at the Dark Deep Depths of 19th Century Prejudices brought on by the American People's Democratic Choice of their President. Clearly Democracy has in the 21st Century has Serious Limitations. Fascist Dictator Adolf Hitler was the Democratic Choice of the German People in 1933. So is PM Narendra Modi in India, President Erdogan in Turkey, the rise of Marine Le Pen to the French Presidency. Everywhere Democracy is throwing up Rightist Autocrats Voted by the very people who suffer most under Dictatorships.
2
This is the pefect storm for trump enabling him to raise a false flag operation aimed at distancing himself from his Russian overlords in the face of increasing public and congressional scrutiny in regards to the 2016 elections. That it's lethal stuff he's recklessly playing doesn't matter
3
I think we should remember, our adversaries have had ample time to understand the model of western Democracies. A model of defense and failed diplomacy. Chamberlin appeasing Hitler is a prime example. Point is the world continues to produce maniacs, despots, dictators. Does anyone really believe mediating their rein with western Democracies will get them anywhere, to what benefit. At one time or another, post WW 2 we have engaged dictators as friends we thought. Then of course we have a history of turning on them. Gaddafi and Saddam come to mind as well as Mubarak. Our enemy's have watched and learned. Reality is from what media we get is diplomacy our filter information through our new found Chinese friend will simply allow North Korea a free hand no matter what they say or what comes from exhaustive meetings if we get to that point. Hitler was convinced if The Brits could keep their empire they would step back. Hitler was also convinced the US was always wrangling with it self and so full of Jews and Blacks it would never come to the Brits help.
Why haven’t we met with KimJong-un and discussed our differences, before we sent our Navel force to North Korea? I would assume this would be our first step in defusing the potential for a nuclear catastrophe.This is not a street fight, we are threatening each other & the lives of millions of people are at stake.The only thing that Trump has accomplished is to get Russia gate off the front pages.
2
To those who are so scared that the US might take redemptive action, think if the consequences of having a true psychopath with the capability to wipe out a US city. NK should never, never have been permitted to reach this point. We have been far too weak for the last 16 years. The stakes are high now, whereas an overwhelming show of force 16 years ago could have removed Kim's father easily enough. Now, I do fear that all our war is the best option, the only option should Kim approach second strike capability or H Bombs. So basically if he gets close to true miniaturization and sub launchers, we will need to hit him with everything we have first. It will be sad but there should be no holding back.
"So far, Mr. Trump has played his hand - militarily, at least - as cautiously as his predecessors".
And how so? That is the question. Dropping some 59 missiles at a cost of close to $90 million on an empty Syrian base, destroying a few fortified hangers and antiquated planes, while leaving the runway intact is not 'cautious', but foolish.
In a press conference at the WH with the Secretary General of NATO, Jens Stoltenberg - after the meeting with President Xi in his 'winter' WH - he said that should China not help them with North Korea 'We will go IT alone, with other nations.
The problem with our low-educated, narcissistic Egomaniac-in-Chief is that with a few incorrectly spelled words or short little mangled sentences in 140 characters we can end up in an 'unpresidented' (in Trump lingo) beginning of yet another world war.
And how so? That is the question. Dropping some 59 missiles at a cost of close to $90 million on an empty Syrian base, destroying a few fortified hangers and antiquated planes, while leaving the runway intact is not 'cautious', but foolish.
In a press conference at the WH with the Secretary General of NATO, Jens Stoltenberg - after the meeting with President Xi in his 'winter' WH - he said that should China not help them with North Korea 'We will go IT alone, with other nations.
The problem with our low-educated, narcissistic Egomaniac-in-Chief is that with a few incorrectly spelled words or short little mangled sentences in 140 characters we can end up in an 'unpresidented' (in Trump lingo) beginning of yet another world war.
1
Count me among the hundreds of millions who are alarmed and outraged when hearing the incompetent in the White House say things are more complicated than he imagined. Nothing is more frightening than having a simpleton's finger on the nuclear button. Wait. There is something more frightening. Having an insecure bully with his finger on that button.
Obama had the right strategy - technically undermine N. Korea's violations of nuclear agreements and with 80% failure of test launches, it's working. Trump needs distraction from his election collusion with Russia, which should get him impeached, but the crazy, murderous young dictator in N.Korea is too close to his temperament. This could kill millions and wreck the world economy. It pains me to say it, but China is right to intercede against the US. Trump, like Kim Jong-un, is unstable enough to do something really stupid.
1
Sometimes war is the only answer. Hitler was appeased over and over again but wanted more and started a war anyway. There was no other way to deal with him except to beat him and his armies into submission. Kim has a criminal mind and thinks nothing of his people. The past NK regimes have resorted to counterfeiting, money laundering, kidnapping, and various other criminal enterprises. This one has arranged the assassination of a potential heir and repeatedly threatened neighbors with nuclear tests and ever advancing missile technology. China has proven over and over again that they are unwilling to do anything of substance beyond telling all the parties to remain calm. Like Iran and ISIS, when NK gets a weapon they can lob at us I fear they will have no reluctance to use it. I have read that they already have submarines that can launch missiles so it’s not much of a stretch to expect one of these off any of our coasts ready to do just that. The time has come to cut the head off this snake as it just grows bigger and more vile every year it exists.
Successive administrations have had to deal with the madman---so now we have another madman tweeting and taunting this guy. Just the thing to provoke a crisis. And even if Trump orders a preemptive strike, the North Koreans have enough non-nuclear firepower trained on Seoul--which is some 30 miles from the DMZ and has a population of 25 million---to cause millions of casualties. So no matter what, the carnage will be massive.
Somebody remind this idiot that this isn't a reality show. This is real life with real life consequences. As John Oliver has said: We have a president on a learner's permit.
Somebody remind this idiot that this isn't a reality show. This is real life with real life consequences. As John Oliver has said: We have a president on a learner's permit.
1
Didn't help matters, of course, that because of Mister Bush's Discretionary War, we had to treat Pakistan as a bosom buddy. It was A. Q. Khan, remember, who gave DPRK its nukes.
1
Trump ought to keep his mouth shut as he is making the people of Japan and the South Korean very nervous . The concept of speaking softly
while carrying a big stick is far better than making idle threats.
while carrying a big stick is far better than making idle threats.
3
Finally the correct comparative.
Now who is going to finally hold China's feet to the fire for creating this monster?
China is fully responsible for North Korea existing at all and the source of these weapons and the technology they are using to make them.
Time to make China officially responsible for anything they do as we did the USSR for Cuba.
Now who is going to finally hold China's feet to the fire for creating this monster?
China is fully responsible for North Korea existing at all and the source of these weapons and the technology they are using to make them.
Time to make China officially responsible for anything they do as we did the USSR for Cuba.
19
The N.K. can has been kicked down the road for years.
The road is now at an end and the can must go now right or wrong.
This problem is not Trump's making but it is his problem.
He must organize a coalition of the region's players and end the N.K. problem once and for all.
A murderous 33 year old cannot have nuclear capability.
The road is now at an end and the can must go now right or wrong.
This problem is not Trump's making but it is his problem.
He must organize a coalition of the region's players and end the N.K. problem once and for all.
A murderous 33 year old cannot have nuclear capability.
38
Neither can an unstable, unfit and imbecilic 70 year old.
3
“The N.K. can has been kicked down the road for years.
The road is now at an end and the can must go now right or wrong. “
I agree with your assessment. However, there is a third option - the cliff at the end of the road. I fear this option could have irrevocable consequences.
1
But an nnsane narcissistic megalomaniac can?
So now needed peace in the world is left to two bombastic braggarts in Kim and Trump, with pre-adolescent fantasies of power and control. Freud would have a field day with the images accompanying this article, the so obvious phallic symbols on display, literally who has the biggest missiles, who can make the bigger display.
Then we have some in the media, like Brian Williams, who on seeing huge scorch marks on a Syrian airfield after a recent strike by Trump, gushed at the beauty of it all, and others proclaiming proudly that by launching this attack, Trump finally had become 'president of the United States'.
What a bizarre measure of 'competence', with this ultimate entry into the boy's club of demonstrating who has the most explosive power.
Trump has fully disengaged from his promises during his campaign to be restrained from foreign entanglements and commit funds here in the U.S. for rebuilding of infrastructure, to address problems right here at home. Once in office, he has became a too powerful little boy with lots of very dangerous war toys at his disposal, and very little reassurance that he won’t use them.
Then we have some in the media, like Brian Williams, who on seeing huge scorch marks on a Syrian airfield after a recent strike by Trump, gushed at the beauty of it all, and others proclaiming proudly that by launching this attack, Trump finally had become 'president of the United States'.
What a bizarre measure of 'competence', with this ultimate entry into the boy's club of demonstrating who has the most explosive power.
Trump has fully disengaged from his promises during his campaign to be restrained from foreign entanglements and commit funds here in the U.S. for rebuilding of infrastructure, to address problems right here at home. Once in office, he has became a too powerful little boy with lots of very dangerous war toys at his disposal, and very little reassurance that he won’t use them.
4
Trump is gambling that North Korea will cower when confronted by our superior technology and military. He is also depending on China's ability to reign in the North. The problem is Korea does not care about retaliation if they can hurt us in the process. Ten's of thousands dead in Seoul and Japan will be a world wide tragedy, while ten's of thousand dead in North Korea will not bother their leadership at all. They will ride it out in their bunker.
Remember when a million people starved to death and the Dear Leader did nothing? You can't depend on what we would call rational thinking when dealing with such a xenophobic leadership. Furthermore, if you have read about the Cuban Missile crisis, you will know that Cuba had tactical nuclear weapons ready to use on us if we had landed an invasion force. One misstep by Kennedy, push Cuba to far, and we would have had a nuclear war 90 miles off the Florida Coast.
I have no confidence in Trump or his people's ability to handle this crisis. I am placing my hope on career military and State Department counselors. I hope he takes their advise.
Remember when a million people starved to death and the Dear Leader did nothing? You can't depend on what we would call rational thinking when dealing with such a xenophobic leadership. Furthermore, if you have read about the Cuban Missile crisis, you will know that Cuba had tactical nuclear weapons ready to use on us if we had landed an invasion force. One misstep by Kennedy, push Cuba to far, and we would have had a nuclear war 90 miles off the Florida Coast.
I have no confidence in Trump or his people's ability to handle this crisis. I am placing my hope on career military and State Department counselors. I hope he takes their advise.
95
How nice it would be to rely on the State Department, had Trump not dismantled it.
Do not compare the current mess in North Korea to the Cuban missile crisis. They are not comparable in any way. The USA started the Cuban missile crisis when we wanted to install our then latest ICBM systems inside of Turkey which was being done to scare the Soviets. Our missiles would not be required to attack the Soviets via the North Pole as Turkey was much closer to Moscow. “Stick one of your missiles in my backyard and I will do the same” was Khrushchev's response. Hence, the installation of missiles in Cuba. Today, North Korea is by itself and is not relying on the military support of China nor are they being exposed to the nuclear weapons of the USA (this could be a concern because we support South Korea), China or Russia that is unless they were dumb enough to attack any of the three. They are definitely going to be a far bigger problem than the Soviets were and this time the three nations with the biggest supplies of nuclear weapons are collectively part of the problem and could end up paying for insanity of Kim Jong-un.
36
When Mike Dunce is out there throwing out empty threats, translation: everything is on the table, that means preemptive strike which is just stupid and not realistic. South Korea would not want to initiate a preemptive strike, that would begin their own countries destruction over the ego's of two nitwits.
Mike Dunce is a weird dude who seems to talk in an annoying way like he's trying to channel a cross between John Wayne and Ronald Reagan, but instead sounds like a putz who is more like the human Chatty Cathy Doll that spouts out the prerecorded Trump response every time you pull the string.
Mike Dunce is a weird dude who seems to talk in an annoying way like he's trying to channel a cross between John Wayne and Ronald Reagan, but instead sounds like a putz who is more like the human Chatty Cathy Doll that spouts out the prerecorded Trump response every time you pull the string.
14
Pence is even scarier then trump. Pence believes if the world is destroyed him and his wife are the first two going to heaven. Scarey indeed.
2
China's contribution to North Korean dilemma and the asymmetric trade with America are two important issues that Trump should keep strictly separate and concessions, on one for the other, violate some of the few ideas Trump seemed to have right. As well, the details of Xi's Florida talks seem as limited as Trump's recently awarded 38 Chinese copyrights etc., etc..
Japan and South Korea are not quite as much of the current discussion of an event that could be more devastating to them than the US. Any new comments from them?
Japan and South Korea are not quite as much of the current discussion of an event that could be more devastating to them than the US. Any new comments from them?
2
I don't believe that anything is going to stop North Korea's nuclear program and I don't believe that the population will turn against the leadership; they're under too much mind control. I fear that leads to military intervention by the US, Japan, and others. I only pray that the end result of all of it is the leadership is gone and possibly replaced by a far more sane one. Maybe this is the beginning of the end of the North as we know it - hopefully one day to a better country for its citizens than what it is now. It's certainly going to get worse before it gets better though.
3
It is also possible that it is the beginning of the USA as we know it, although that preamble was in Nov. For many years our leadership, aware of the instability of North Korea, and the fragility of that area, tried/kept a cool head. Now there are no cool heads in Washington.
The churning, interfering, showing of big "guns" in international affairs [in order to avoid the focus on Trump et al investigations,] will lead to events no longer controllable. I read today about people here who are so concerned about the results of the "election" in Turkey. Keep you eyes on THIS country....we are all in it ..the frog pond...and so few get it. Sad. Scary.
The churning, interfering, showing of big "guns" in international affairs [in order to avoid the focus on Trump et al investigations,] will lead to events no longer controllable. I read today about people here who are so concerned about the results of the "election" in Turkey. Keep you eyes on THIS country....we are all in it ..the frog pond...and so few get it. Sad. Scary.
Fortunately for us in the 60s, Castro had a healthy fear of the US and wanted to live. Can we say the same about Kim? If he can find a place under a mountain to hide I believe he may go for the nuclear option.
1
North Korea has learnt from the history of the last 70 years that the best security against US invasion/attack is nuclear capability. For the past 70 years the US has done nothing but create havoc around the world by there ambition to be world dominator. When will the US accept that it is part of the World not the World? Bring the troops home and accept your borders rather than trying to expand them at the cost of other nations.
3
Another thing to remember soviet submarine commanders were given freedom to launch. If it hadn't been for the quick thinking of a Russian admiral aboard one sub, countermanding a launch, we would probably not be here today.
2
What will a preemptive strike against North Korea accomplish?...except for complete catastrophe. They have enough conventional weapons to decimate South Korea. If North Korea is attacked, they will immediately fire back at Seoul. The situation calls for coalition building and shrewd strategizing, not ultimatums and then military strikes. Kim Jong Un is unstable and dangerous, for sure. Let's not forget he already has nuclear weapons. If he is attacked by the U.S., will he use them?
We go to war to defend our country, not to defend our President's domestic popularity with his supporters. Given North Korea's border with China, its leader Kim Jong-un ought to be China's military problem. If the Chinese do not view North Korea as a threat to them, why does Trump believe he is a threat to us? We have no national border with North Korea. And a vote in the United Nations General Assembly will demonstrate that the U.N. has no international border with North Korea, either. Not one threatened, that is, by the bellicose words of Kim Jong-un.
Only Congress has the authority to declare war.
Democrats ought to challenge Trump's bluster if they believe he aims to provoke a war in the Korean Peninsula. And South Koreans ought to refuse to give him permission to sacrifice South Koreans for Trump's dangerous threats to world peace. Let Trump sacrifice his presidency rather than Korean and American lives. Let China decide whether North Korea is enough of a military threat to them that China needs to militarily intervene as it did in the Himalayas, Tibet and Vietnam.
Only Congress has the authority to declare war.
Democrats ought to challenge Trump's bluster if they believe he aims to provoke a war in the Korean Peninsula. And South Koreans ought to refuse to give him permission to sacrifice South Koreans for Trump's dangerous threats to world peace. Let Trump sacrifice his presidency rather than Korean and American lives. Let China decide whether North Korea is enough of a military threat to them that China needs to militarily intervene as it did in the Himalayas, Tibet and Vietnam.
“After listening for 10 minutes (to Xi Jinping), I realized it’s not so easy,” he said. “It’s not what you would think.”
As he breaks one inane campaign promise after another, we're going to hear this sentence repeated every week or two for the rest of his term.
Yes, two infantile, giant egos clashing. The reality is they could destroy the rest of us in their ignorant efforts to win and prove which ego is "superior".
Why do so many US citizens vote for the aristocratic pro war repubs. They clearly don't care about you and me, or that the planet may be destroyed by the ignorance they installed in office.
Unbelievably frightening and maddening. Somehow trump needs to be removed before the planet goes down. Which could be any second.
As he breaks one inane campaign promise after another, we're going to hear this sentence repeated every week or two for the rest of his term.
Yes, two infantile, giant egos clashing. The reality is they could destroy the rest of us in their ignorant efforts to win and prove which ego is "superior".
Why do so many US citizens vote for the aristocratic pro war repubs. They clearly don't care about you and me, or that the planet may be destroyed by the ignorance they installed in office.
Unbelievably frightening and maddening. Somehow trump needs to be removed before the planet goes down. Which could be any second.
1
An important difference between the current crisis and the Cuban Missile Crisis is in the key leaders. In 1962 both President Kennedy and Premier Khrushchev were mature, intelligent men who had experienced the horrors of war, and both were savvy about international relations. But in the current crisis we have two leaders who inherited their privileged statuses and who have sensitive egos that seem to feed on militaristic posturing. In the case of our own President Trump, we have a leader who is astonishingly ignorant of world affairs. And it isn't at all clear that his skill as a television impresario will serve him well in his dealings with Kim Jong-Un. I have to say, this is all very worrying to me.
1
I would agree that North Korea is dangerously unstable. We, however, contributed to the situation by focusing our attention on a bunch of Middle Eastern tribes who were throwing rocks at each other, and allowed North Korea to acquire nuclear weapons. Unfortunately we now have a dangerously unstable President who wants to "Solve the North Korea problem."
Two facts which have deterred past Presidents from unilateral action: North Korea has a standing army of over 5.8 million people. Seoul, the capital of South Korea, with 25 million people in the region, is 35 miles from the DMZ.
Regardless of the final outcome of any war, North Korea has more than enough troops and weapons to punch through and wipe out Seoul.
If China wanted to perform a service to humanity, they would offer to replace the troops on both sides of the DMZ with their troops. Perhaps then North Korea and us would have the confidence to negotiate in good faith. We must do something radical like this because the man/child both North Korea and the US have for leaders are incapable of backing down. They need a grown up to step between them.
Two facts which have deterred past Presidents from unilateral action: North Korea has a standing army of over 5.8 million people. Seoul, the capital of South Korea, with 25 million people in the region, is 35 miles from the DMZ.
Regardless of the final outcome of any war, North Korea has more than enough troops and weapons to punch through and wipe out Seoul.
If China wanted to perform a service to humanity, they would offer to replace the troops on both sides of the DMZ with their troops. Perhaps then North Korea and us would have the confidence to negotiate in good faith. We must do something radical like this because the man/child both North Korea and the US have for leaders are incapable of backing down. They need a grown up to step between them.
With JFK, you had a man that had served in the military, was a student of history, and did not have a death wish for Americans. He provided oversight for the military and made his own decisions. With Trump you have a man who has no military experience, apparently has no understanding of history, and has ceded control to the military. Add to that his unregulated temperament. What could go wrong? I'm convinced that the people who voted for him have a death wish, otherwise they would have shown better judgment.
7
Trump is trying to start a war in order to get his approval ratings up; it is as simple, and complicated, as that.
1
Russia. Collusion. Focus.
1
If you wrote this into a satirical farce it wouldn't be funny unless edited to make it more plausible. An American president enters his first meeting with the Chinese president and needs a 10 minute lecture from him before realizing, for the first time, that the North Korea problem is complicated.
Think about it.
Think about it.
Why is Congress not in session? What important business do they have to conduct in their home districts? Hiding out from town hall meetings? When are these folks going to put in a 40-hour work week for their pay? They need to be advising our know-nothing President and injecting some common sense and practical solutions into his head. And where is the CIA? Why have we made this organization toothless? Used to be they could take care of the crazies around the world before they became a nuclear threat. Jung-un needs to go the way of bin Laden. Perhaps Mr. Obama could step in here?
1
People like to forget that the Cuban Missile Crisis was an ill-advised but certainly justifiable response to our doomed attempt at regime change... the Bay of Pigs. I say get the CIA out of the regime change and missile disabling business now! Imagine if the CIA had messed w the missile in such a way as to have made it land on Seoul? The CIA and NSA can't even keep their own cyber-weapons secure and we want them running around deploying them at whichever evil regime du jour we say needs overthrowing?
1
For Trump it's all photo-ops and approval ratings. What I fear is that he has learned that military action raises his approval rating. Therefore, that will be his first option.
According to Sun Tsu the purpose of war is to advance the goals of the state. Von Clausewitz said it was to achieve an end state different and hopefully better than the beginning state. Those two fellows are generally considered the two most renowned military philosophers.
But within those definitions, one has to ask “Whose state is it and who is setting the goals”. What does the “better end state” look like by whoever it is that believes war is the means by which the advancement or the betterment of the state should happen?
If I talk to the regular man on the street, what is his life all about…? Home, food, safety, a desire to explore life’s amazement's, family, possibly a connection to God in whatever form? How about the average woman on the street! How many see their children leaving for war with a smile on their face? Well, then at what level does this belief that war is the means by which the state becomes better?
A review of the causes of war indicates that money, power and control are the base reasons for war’s causes. So who does the fighting over this money, this power and control? How many of these people that want this money, power and control actually fight in these wars?
With the estimated number of one billion people who have died due to wars, what seems better?
But within those definitions, one has to ask “Whose state is it and who is setting the goals”. What does the “better end state” look like by whoever it is that believes war is the means by which the advancement or the betterment of the state should happen?
If I talk to the regular man on the street, what is his life all about…? Home, food, safety, a desire to explore life’s amazement's, family, possibly a connection to God in whatever form? How about the average woman on the street! How many see their children leaving for war with a smile on their face? Well, then at what level does this belief that war is the means by which the state becomes better?
A review of the causes of war indicates that money, power and control are the base reasons for war’s causes. So who does the fighting over this money, this power and control? How many of these people that want this money, power and control actually fight in these wars?
With the estimated number of one billion people who have died due to wars, what seems better?
1
I think by now, we all know the military is Republican and led into opportunistic wars by Republican leaders, so you Democrats should exhaustively convince your young people to stay out of the military so they are not sacrificed to the ideas of militaristic conquest, hatred and anger.
Apparently we are to believe that the solution to the crisis is to set up more South Korean opportunity zones where North Koreans can now work as slave labor for NEW masters.
President Bush's invasion of Iraq in 2003 taught the whole world that only nuclear weapons can protect national sovereignty. Libya only reinforced it.
Since Reagan, Republican presidents have made a dangerous habit of clanging their swords, talking tough, but limiting their actions to the weakest of proxies. Now, however, we have a president with no political experience or skill who has surrounded himself with generals and lackeys that also lack those vital attributes.
Prodding Russia (perhaps more of a nudge among friends considering the iceberg of financial ties of which we only get a vague awareness) and China, the two other superpowers, in a gambit to both assure his supporters at home and to prop up his obviously small and now damaged ego, the president has made his first hundred days far more dangerous, uncertain, and unnerving than the entire 8-year tenure of Obama.
Prodding Russia (perhaps more of a nudge among friends considering the iceberg of financial ties of which we only get a vague awareness) and China, the two other superpowers, in a gambit to both assure his supporters at home and to prop up his obviously small and now damaged ego, the president has made his first hundred days far more dangerous, uncertain, and unnerving than the entire 8-year tenure of Obama.
The two situations are not at all alike.
The Cuban crisis was between two nuclear superpowers. North Korea isn't either. And while Kennedy certainly had an ego he wasn't insane. Both current rulers are insane now. This will end badly.
The Cuban crisis was between two nuclear superpowers. North Korea isn't either. And while Kennedy certainly had an ego he wasn't insane. Both current rulers are insane now. This will end badly.
The Korean Peninsula plays a pivotal role in the future stability of the North Pacific region.
China, Russia and Japan being the most important interests with the USA still insisting on World Dominance by right of being the "last superpower standing".
Let's dispense with the State Dept style niceties and just blurt it out.......North Korea is a Chinese client state. Kim Jong Un only does what China allows him to do. If Kim Jong Un is testing a missile, its because CHINA wants him to test a missile. One suspects that the reason why NK missiles reliably "fail" 4 seconds after launch is because US Satellite Defense Systems reliably shoot them down 4 seconds into launch.....the Chinese are testing our ability to shoot down missiles!!!
North Korea also provides China with a port that faces EAST into the Sea of Japan.....Hungnam, the infamous port where we had to evacuate the US Army in 1950, destroying the port faciities as we left it to the control of the swarming 1 million man Chinese People's Army, armed with sneakers and burp-guns.....the Freezin Season at the Frozen Chosin Reservoir.
Russia and Korea make for a pinch point, blocking China from expanding towards Siberia and Japan and ... Alaska, etc, etc.........
Global Trade.......Most of the Philipines for North Korea.....let both Duterte and Kim Jong Un twist slowly in the wind...............
China, Russia and Japan being the most important interests with the USA still insisting on World Dominance by right of being the "last superpower standing".
Let's dispense with the State Dept style niceties and just blurt it out.......North Korea is a Chinese client state. Kim Jong Un only does what China allows him to do. If Kim Jong Un is testing a missile, its because CHINA wants him to test a missile. One suspects that the reason why NK missiles reliably "fail" 4 seconds after launch is because US Satellite Defense Systems reliably shoot them down 4 seconds into launch.....the Chinese are testing our ability to shoot down missiles!!!
North Korea also provides China with a port that faces EAST into the Sea of Japan.....Hungnam, the infamous port where we had to evacuate the US Army in 1950, destroying the port faciities as we left it to the control of the swarming 1 million man Chinese People's Army, armed with sneakers and burp-guns.....the Freezin Season at the Frozen Chosin Reservoir.
Russia and Korea make for a pinch point, blocking China from expanding towards Siberia and Japan and ... Alaska, etc, etc.........
Global Trade.......Most of the Philipines for North Korea.....let both Duterte and Kim Jong Un twist slowly in the wind...............
What we all should be deeply worried about is Trump is just not a slow motion guy---he shoots first and them aims--which in the case of a possible nuclear confrontation is planet ending.
Trump, you're no Jack Kennedy.
2
This is what we get when we have military minds hooked up to a macho-man wannabe in the White House running things with a Secretary of State accustomed to hard-nosed business deals rather than diplomacy. Where is Bill Richardson? Oh, he's a Democrat...
The problem on the Korean Peninsula is that their are two lunatics at each end, Supreme Leader Kim Jong-Un, and Emperor Donald I. Let's just hope that it is not a shoot-out between two narcissist, born into a privileged life, and care nothing for anyone who might suffer or die--due to their irrelevance.
https://thetruthoncommonsense.com
https://thetruthoncommonsense.com
This has zero resemblance to the Cuban Missile Crisis, don't know where that comparison came from. This is just another big mess left by the previous administration.
I wrote a similar analysis in the NYT of April 14th, 2017.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/14/world/asia/north-korea-china-nuclear....
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/14/world/asia/north-korea-china-nuclear....
1
"the roots of the Korean crisis go back a quarter-century"
I thought they went back to the 1950's. More than a half century.
I thought they went back to the 1950's. More than a half century.
Trump and his cabal are too incompetent to make decisions of this importance. They must be removed from office before they do further harm to this country and it's citizens.
Trump's modus operandi (MO) has been when he is being investigated or looked at for illegal activity, he creates another story of greater emotional impact to draw, what he believes, is people with short attention spans in another direction. This would include the media. It is kind of like a magic show. Keep the people's eyes on one hand while the other is manipulating the situation. The size of the new story must be bigger than the story that is being investigated otherwise the "trick" doesn't work. This Syrian air strike and now this Korean craziness, should give you an idea of how big this Russian "takeover" of the United States Government really is.
Would Trump and his Russian team be willing to be the cause of many deaths to keep this "Russian Takeover" of the US under wraps...one word that fits both Trump and Putin...NARCISSIST!
Would Trump and his Russian team be willing to be the cause of many deaths to keep this "Russian Takeover" of the US under wraps...one word that fits both Trump and Putin...NARCISSIST!
When dealing with a delusional psychopath and pathological liar one has to be very careful. And Mr. Kim is not so stable either.
1
Hahh now things are going back the way I predicted.
I had predicted upon his winning the elections that Trump would take us to war with North Korea. It made a lot of sense because the combination of 2 lunatics in power in 2 different countries can only result in war. But then he starts launching missiles in Syria. That wasn't in my predictions. I hate it when people act so irrationally.
I had predicted upon his winning the elections that Trump would take us to war with North Korea. It made a lot of sense because the combination of 2 lunatics in power in 2 different countries can only result in war. But then he starts launching missiles in Syria. That wasn't in my predictions. I hate it when people act so irrationally.
War = Higher Approval Ratings
It's a no-brainer
Literally.
It's a no-brainer
Literally.
If somebody did not want a nuclear armed North Korea, the time for military action was when it id not have nuclear arms. Now that it seem to have them, it won the race in that sense (and will remain a pariah attached to China).
So stop the madness. The best deal is to avoid a nuclear confrontation. If you lost already, do not make your losses larger. You are making NK look larger than it is. Contain and go win somewhere else. You know, the art of the deal.
So stop the madness. The best deal is to avoid a nuclear confrontation. If you lost already, do not make your losses larger. You are making NK look larger than it is. Contain and go win somewhere else. You know, the art of the deal.
`While all historical analogies are necessarily imprecise ...' That might be the understatement of the year. The Cuban missile crisis had one critical difference to the current faceoff with North Korea. And that difference is Mr. Trump. I'm reminded of Sen. Bentsen's takedown of Sen. Quayle in 1988. The same humiliating dig could be leveled at Mr. Trump: `... you're no Jack Kennedy.'
Tell us how Clinton and Obama handled NK. We wouldn't be at this stage if it weren't for them. Didn't Bill negotiate and end to NK's nuke program?
Each day I watch as the Times and its loyal readers descend deeper into an irrational, outrageously unfair hate of Trump. How can we have a rational discourse on any subject as long as this illiberal lunacy deepens? Where will this end up?
Each day I watch as the Times and its loyal readers descend deeper into an irrational, outrageously unfair hate of Trump. How can we have a rational discourse on any subject as long as this illiberal lunacy deepens? Where will this end up?
Two narcissistic, ego-maniacs with bad hair = trouble for millions. This is like a the world's largest, kindergarten playground fight.
When Mike Dunce is out there throwing out empty threats, translation: everything is on the table, that means preemptive strike which is just stupid and not realistic. South Korea would not want to initiate a preemptive strike, that would begin their own countries destruction over the ego's of two nitwits.
Mike Dunce is a weird dude who seems to talk in an annoying way like he's trying to channel a cross between John Wayne and Ronald Reagan, but instead sounds like a putz who is more like the human Chatty Cathy Doll that spouts out the prerecorded Trump response every time you pull the string.
Mike Dunce is a weird dude who seems to talk in an annoying way like he's trying to channel a cross between John Wayne and Ronald Reagan, but instead sounds like a putz who is more like the human Chatty Cathy Doll that spouts out the prerecorded Trump response every time you pull the string.
1
"As long as North Korea is a problem, we will not label China a currency manipulator", said our president.
"China needs to work harder to undermine the North Korean leadership", said our president.
What a comedy.
"China needs to work harder to undermine the North Korean leadership", said our president.
What a comedy.
The difference with the Cuban case is that back then it was the other side who created the situation. Now it is the mentally unstable ignorant clown who, in his infinite imbecility and ignorance, thought the world was a tv show...and still does.
2
Goody goody! Another war. It's about time. The military-industrial complex was getting edgy. I see big profits on the horizon.
"frontier of freedom.” That's a Pence quote during his visit to the demarcation line between North and South Korea. Doesn't that saber rattling rhetoric sound just like a line from the Bush-Cheney playbook!
I'm sure by now that Trump, Pence, and Tillerson have the "South Koreans" absolutely frightened out of their minds. These three chickenhawks are placing the world in a most dangerous position, and nothing or no one seems to be able to stop it.
Meanwhile Kim of North Korea is likely all puffed up knowing he is again on the world stage. A little military action is of little bother to him, lives lost mean nothing to him. If the U.S. strikes first, Kim wins and the world loses!
I'm sure by now that Trump, Pence, and Tillerson have the "South Koreans" absolutely frightened out of their minds. These three chickenhawks are placing the world in a most dangerous position, and nothing or no one seems to be able to stop it.
Meanwhile Kim of North Korea is likely all puffed up knowing he is again on the world stage. A little military action is of little bother to him, lives lost mean nothing to him. If the U.S. strikes first, Kim wins and the world loses!
Great. On the one hand we have a militaristic man-child with a bad haircut whose ego, bluster and delusions of grandeur and competence far outstrip the reality of how inept and over his head he really is.
And then we have Kim Jong-un.
Boy, were these two ever made for each other. Except Kim Jong-un is only sabre-rattling. Trump really does want to get into a war so he can order "his military" to blow up a lot of stuff and people. He thinks this will get Americans to like him. The sad thing is a lot of them will.
And then we have Kim Jong-un.
Boy, were these two ever made for each other. Except Kim Jong-un is only sabre-rattling. Trump really does want to get into a war so he can order "his military" to blow up a lot of stuff and people. He thinks this will get Americans to like him. The sad thing is a lot of them will.
4
This administration will do anything to keep Americans distracted from the issues at some. Who in their right mind fights a leader and people who do not have much to live for. But in the politicking of mad men and in the mind of wanna be actors this is just at WWE-You talk trash and act like you are fighting. But this is another era. God have mercy on all of us.
I found it telling, for example, that Mister Trump used the WWE/MMA phrase "choke out" to describe the effects of the Syria gas attack.
Another country that needs to wiped off the face of the earth.
I'll say it again; its amateur night at the local dive bar and idiots have the mic.
Except now they have nuclear weapons.
Lord Christ have mercy on us maybe our children can forgive us, probably not.
To those who think a "businessman" can make a great President, you were dead wrong. Emphasize the word dead.
Except now they have nuclear weapons.
Lord Christ have mercy on us maybe our children can forgive us, probably not.
To those who think a "businessman" can make a great President, you were dead wrong. Emphasize the word dead.
4
Saddam gave up his program, we iced him. Gaddafi gave up his program, we iced him. Tehran says No way, we stay back. Who's the crazy one here?
America is the most belligerent power of the 21st Century, by so far.
America is the most belligerent power of the 21st Century, by so far.
4
"President Trump and his aides have made it clear that the United States will no longer tolerate the incremental advances that have moved Mr. Kim so close to his goals. Secretary of State Rex W. Tillerson has said repeatedly that “our policy of strategic patience has ended,”
Without saying at all what they will actually do. Tough sounding, simplistic statements are not policy and, frankly, there does not appear to be a viable military option since any attack on North Korea would likely result in devastation in South Korea and an immediate explosion of war on the peninsula. Trump is moving in exactly the wrong direction. Negotiations are the only choice.
Without saying at all what they will actually do. Tough sounding, simplistic statements are not policy and, frankly, there does not appear to be a viable military option since any attack on North Korea would likely result in devastation in South Korea and an immediate explosion of war on the peninsula. Trump is moving in exactly the wrong direction. Negotiations are the only choice.
81
Agreed, but then Trump risks revealing he is actually not a sound negotiator, one of the pillars of his electorate...
The situation is going to get out of hand here.
The situation is going to get out of hand here.
Would those be the same negotiations that we have been attempting the last 20 years?
Then again, sometimes the simple solution is the one most likely to succeed.
There is no good answer here.
We have been able to kick the can down the road as long as the Chinese had some control of NK and NK did not have the capacity to hit the US or its allies with nukes.
The BEST solution would be for the NK leadership to get rid of the fat crazy kid and then enter negotiations to get rid of their nukes. Unfortunately fat boy has a lot of anti-aircraft guns to strap friends and family to that challenge him. In short,...it aint gonna happen. Though, if that leadership thinks the US and China will take them out or that China will agree to stand back and let the US do it maybe they will.
There is simply no way we can allow a crazy, sociopath with no checks on his power, who makes threats regularly to have nuclear capable ICBMs. Just no way. In fact, every major power from China to Russia to the US should be able to agree on that and come together to take this guy out.
SO...we are left with two additional options. Neither one a happy choice.
1. We strike at the NK nuclear facilities, sink all his submarines, and strike at Kim directly in a decapitation effort.
2. We encourage the Chinese to do it.
That's about it.
There is no good answer here.
We have been able to kick the can down the road as long as the Chinese had some control of NK and NK did not have the capacity to hit the US or its allies with nukes.
The BEST solution would be for the NK leadership to get rid of the fat crazy kid and then enter negotiations to get rid of their nukes. Unfortunately fat boy has a lot of anti-aircraft guns to strap friends and family to that challenge him. In short,...it aint gonna happen. Though, if that leadership thinks the US and China will take them out or that China will agree to stand back and let the US do it maybe they will.
There is simply no way we can allow a crazy, sociopath with no checks on his power, who makes threats regularly to have nuclear capable ICBMs. Just no way. In fact, every major power from China to Russia to the US should be able to agree on that and come together to take this guy out.
SO...we are left with two additional options. Neither one a happy choice.
1. We strike at the NK nuclear facilities, sink all his submarines, and strike at Kim directly in a decapitation effort.
2. We encourage the Chinese to do it.
That's about it.
Most Americans, including myself have little knowledge of North Korea and are vulnerable to having our opinion formed by the limited news we do get about the country. It appears to be a country with limited economic power, so you would think it would be vulnerable to an intelligent economic boycott. Encouraging China to comply with a boycott appears to be the biggest challenge, however I am sure the Chinese government does not want a US military buildup in South Korea, a location so close to its own border. This would take finesse and a President with greater experience than Mr. Trump. Playing Russian Roulette on the Korean peninsula will in the end, make China look like the bigger world power as in the end, it controls the situation.
51
The US military is in South Korea because of the USSR and China, they don't get an objection to that now or ever since they created the situation and have happily benefited from it for many decades. You can rest assured they are behind these antics in the North and while it is barely possible Un has gone rogue they are still responsible for him and the weapons he has and what he has done with them. You can trace the arrogance of North Korea's actions on the world stage directly to the beginning of the rise of China in the 80's. They are hand and glove.
The key may be to get China as worried about North Korea as the US and the rest of the world are. For all we know, China may already be that worried. But China may still be hoping that the US will act and relieve China of that burden. If China can avoid a conflict that weakens the US, North and South Korean, and quite possibly Japan and other nations in the region, then China will be by far the dominant power in the region both militarily and economically. Can China gain anything if it helps in promoting a peaceful resolution to the situation? Trump is already declaring that China is not a currency manipulator. Is Trump capable of working a deal with China to help keep North Korea bottled up? Just last week he spent ten minutes learning that the situation is "not so easy." And thanks to China for that.
we already have military there
A war of imbeciles. The solution has to be a united Korea, and that will only be accomplished by the agreement of China and the U.S. Others in the region such as Japan and Taiwan need to be kept out.
Huh!? The division of Korea was done by China and the USSR the only thing necessary for the solution is removing China, the original source of the problem, from the equation. The North's paranoia is them displaying China's true paranoia by proxy for them.
N. Korea has no logistical, moral or technical support from a major power as Cuba did in the crisis. Our focal point at that time was the Russian threat, not the Cuban threat. From all reports it appears China is not posing an existential threat to the US, and neither is N. Korea, although the militarism from Kim could escalate in the region.
A conventional war would result in massive casualties on both sides of the border, including thousands of US soldier stationed along the DMZ. But how long can such a war last without Chinese support in food, water, weapons and total logistical support, if not direct military aid?
If Trump is going to do a 'deal' with China or N. Korea; he better do it quick. The generals are clearly in charge of policy, and a quick response to the slightest misstep by N. Korea could escalate into 10,000 dead within a few days.
Personally I doubt Trump has any idea what to do, and with a dearth of skilled diplomats available in his administration, this could lead to calamity.
A conventional war would result in massive casualties on both sides of the border, including thousands of US soldier stationed along the DMZ. But how long can such a war last without Chinese support in food, water, weapons and total logistical support, if not direct military aid?
If Trump is going to do a 'deal' with China or N. Korea; he better do it quick. The generals are clearly in charge of policy, and a quick response to the slightest misstep by N. Korea could escalate into 10,000 dead within a few days.
Personally I doubt Trump has any idea what to do, and with a dearth of skilled diplomats available in his administration, this could lead to calamity.
66
DPRK has 30-40 nukes. The horse is out of the barn. We negotiate w an equal not an inferior. No war against them is "winnable". That word no longer applies. Simply taking that attitude would be a great start. And recognizing the DPRK's existence legally, which we still have not done.
1
GP writes that "N. Korea has no logistical, moral or technical support from a major power as Cuba did in the crisis"
North Korea, in fact have lots of logistical support, some moral support, and considerable technical support from China.
There are limits (the details of which we do not know) to Chinese support.
Just as there proved to be limits (the details of which we discovered through a mix of negotiation and experimentation) to Russia's support to Cuba.
That said, I agree with GP that the Donald could take us over the brink in this mess.
North Korea, in fact have lots of logistical support, some moral support, and considerable technical support from China.
There are limits (the details of which we do not know) to Chinese support.
Just as there proved to be limits (the details of which we discovered through a mix of negotiation and experimentation) to Russia's support to Cuba.
That said, I agree with GP that the Donald could take us over the brink in this mess.
1
"But how long can such a war last without Chinese support"
Sound like channeling Dick Cheney's liberators argument. It could last a lot longer than many of us might imagine. And further, don't assume China would not offer support.
Sound like channeling Dick Cheney's liberators argument. It could last a lot longer than many of us might imagine. And further, don't assume China would not offer support.
The UN is completely quiet on this USA-NK escalating sabre-rattling and it is startling and revealing that the "political experts" writing articles like this are not mentioning that fact.
4
So, it appears that the cruise missiles and the MOABs were just Trump flexing his muscles, most likely with the prodding of his military. Of course, now that the President had a "ten minute" conversation with the leader of China, and completely changed course, anything is possible....
10
It takes a special kind of obsessive insanity to read an article like this and then go straight to another anti-Trump rant. Americans have complained for generations about career politicians and then they're surprised when they elect a first-timer and there's a learning curve? The only real surprise is that Trump was humble enough to admit he's learning on the job, but as far as actions in Syria and North Korea go, so far it seems as if he put all the right people in place and is heeding their advice.
In Cuba the Soviets placed missiles there just a few miles off the US coast. NK is not placing missiles in other countries. It doesn't resemble that at all unless you're speaking of brinkmanship.
5
While the parallels to the Cuban Crisis are there, differences also are striking. The parent country in the current situation, China, is (apparently) on the side of normalcy, whereas back then the Soviets were not. In fact, they instigated the whole dangerous mess. Did China instigate this? It really doesn't seem so, but experts would know. With this one difference in mind, it would seem that a lot of effective world pressure could be brought to bear upon the rogue nation.
P.S. The many commentators here writing about President Trump being somehow egotistical or dangerous or irresponsible are showing themselves to be even more foolish than before. This, of course, applies to the front page of the oh so professional and responsible NYT writers.
P.S. The many commentators here writing about President Trump being somehow egotistical or dangerous or irresponsible are showing themselves to be even more foolish than before. This, of course, applies to the front page of the oh so professional and responsible NYT writers.
9
I guess your right, being that our idiot in chief learned all his military and international diplomacy skills at some third rate military academy. The thought makes me sleep soundly at night.
"Somehow" egotistical, dangerous or irresponsible? I knew Jack Kennedy, and Trump, sir, is no Jack Kennedy.
I beg to differ with you on your assertion that Russia instigated the Cuban missile crisis. Russia was our ally during WW2. It took someone like Truman to insult them repeatedly after the war was over. Truman felt comfortable doing so because we had just bombed Japan and he could hold the bomb over the heads of Russia. Russia lost more people in WW2 resisting the Germans than any other country and they were not about to face being wiped off the face of the earth again. We had our chance at world peace after WW2 and we blew it with arrogance. Arrogance always gets the US in trouble.
This has been coming for a long time and is worse now because both the US and Korea have leaders with unstable personalities. I can only hope that Trump can be managed throughout this by his staff and Kushner. I think the US saber rattling is aimed at China to get Xi on board to really help rather than North Korea. Kim literally has nothing to lose. Unfortunately China has almost as few options as the US. I would offer the Chinese some guarantees if they enforce a full trade embargo. No unification if North Korea collapses. China would be able to create a client state in the North using existing North Korean leaders other than Kim. US aid to help rebuild North Korea if the regime collapses. I would make these terms public in the hope that North Koreans themselves overthrow Kim. An internal coup is a long shot because Kim is so powerful but the will to survive of those around him could be enough if they really feel the alternative is death for all of them.
5
The reason that North Korea is pursuing nuclear weapons is because of American troops on their border. South Korea is well positioned to provide their own defense. Many in the south desire to unify the peninsula, and see the US as an obstacle. It is time to remove the presence of US troops from Korea.
Scary headline, particularly once one realizes that the reason the Cuban Missile Crisis did NOT turn in to World War 3 was because of the restraint and coolness under pressure of BOTH Soviet leader Khrushchev and American President Kennedy. Remove BOTH factors, like today's situation, and prospects for peace are much worse.
18
Unless you judge things by the way the administration has been handling events as opposed to judging it by the boogeyman in your head.
Indeed, in some ways this confrontation does bear some resemblance to the Cuban Missile Crisis. But two leaders involved this time around are far less grounded and knowledgeable and far more ego-driven than Kennedy and Khrushchev were. To cite just one minor but still illuminating element in this dynamic, it's hard to know what's worse - that Trump needed a 10-minute lecture from Xi to educate him on Chinese-North Korean relations, or that he took that lecture (however accurate it conceivably might have been) at face value.
In addition, there's another very worrisome factor at play: Trump is a master at deflecting attention from political problems, and no issue can deflect attention from his scandals and potentially boost his public support more than a national security crisis. This is yet another factor that can turn a slowly evolving confrontation into a massively combustible one. The point is not necessarily that Trump will intentionally start a war (though can we put anything past this president?) but that he'll bluster and blunder into one.
In addition, there's another very worrisome factor at play: Trump is a master at deflecting attention from political problems, and no issue can deflect attention from his scandals and potentially boost his public support more than a national security crisis. This is yet another factor that can turn a slowly evolving confrontation into a massively combustible one. The point is not necessarily that Trump will intentionally start a war (though can we put anything past this president?) but that he'll bluster and blunder into one.
15
Narcissists feed on praise. For weeks, Trump receives criticism and rejection in the Russia/election investigations. Trump receives greatest public praise for bombing Syria. Trump sees public fascination with his use of the Mother of All Bombs. Trump associates military action with praise and acceptance. What could possibly go wrong in a confrontation with North Korea?
10
With Donald Trump and Kim Jong-un, we have two impulsive, insecure, ego-driven leaders in a standoff involving nuclear weapons. What could possibly go wrong?
24
Our great negotiator failed miserably, again. Xi got everything he wanted in exchange for nothing. Then Xi turned to Russia for help to control Trump.
As David Cay Johnston warned us, Donald is a terrible negotiator. Why do you think he went through 6 bankruptcies?
As David Cay Johnston warned us, Donald is a terrible negotiator. Why do you think he went through 6 bankruptcies?
45 said in campaign mode that he wondered why we have nukes if we can't use them...I fear he has made up his mind.
7
We are at this point because Bill Clinton, George Bush and Barack Obama failed when they had an opportunity to stop North Korea from building a nuclear program. People object to Trump's more aggressive posture, but clearly appeasement didn't work.
13
I knew, some how or another, someone would say this was Obama's fault. And if President Obama had done anything about it beyond his commendable restraint, the right wing press would be apoplectic about Obama starting a war.
How about letting South Korea, Japan and China getting together for once and stopping North Korea?
How about letting South Korea, Japan and China getting together for once and stopping North Korea?
11
Yes, Obama shares some of the blame, but, as I pointed out so do Clinton and Bush. If you ask the simple question, are the North Koreans closer to being able to deliver a nuclear warhead then they were on Obama's first day of office, the answer is clearly yes.
So you approve of trump attacking Kim who in turn attacks Seoul?
Nuclear deterrence worked with the USSR during the Cold War. Unless North Korea is literally suicidal, it will work with them. MAD remains the most powerful policy for nuclear war prevention.
I think North Korea may well be suicidal.
And so may the U.S.
The big winner of all this may well be China.
And so may the U.S.
The big winner of all this may well be China.
The roots of the Korean crisis go back a quarter century...to 1992?
4
A ‘Cuban Missile Crisis in Slow Motion’ is the worst comparison. Cuba, during JFKs time was seen by Russia as a possible jumping point against the US. North Korea only has their own Kim Jong-un and nobody else.
Isaac Asimov aptly stated that "violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." That thought is on ample display today by the Trump administration. And even though the North Korea v. US standoff is not an exact simile of the Cuban Missile Crisis, it reminds us of why it is crucial that in our republic the military have civilian oversight. Left to their own devices, the initial instinct of the generals will be to excersice their muscle and then see what the consequences were. Imagine if the military had been allowed to act during Cuban crisis without the tempered hand of a John F. Kennedy who, in my view, almost single handedly averted a nuclear conflict. Trump needs to rein in the military and listen to his advisors, even those that he does not agree with, in order to issue measured responses and keep us out of a potentially apocalyptic conflict.
5
It was not "single handed". Stanislov Petrov Is the man you want to know about.
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/the-man-who-saved-the-world-watch-the-fu...
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/the-man-who-saved-the-world-watch-the-fu...
1
In the name of all humanity, someone stop Trump.
There's no need for any of these threats and talk of nuclear war as if we're talking about the weather.
Every morning I wake up in terror. I listen to mainstream media hype this potential conflict, and essentially assert "something" must be done.
Yes something must be done: we have to stop Trump and "his" military.
There are other means to deal with North Korea than sending a fleet to their doorstep and threatening pre-emptive "strikes."
Where is JFK when we need him?
Why must we all suffer such nonstop fear from the popular vote loser president, who knows nothing about anything, least of all diplomacy?
Nuclear war is NOT an option. It is never an option.
The fact that one must even state this is terrifying.
Wake up, Trump.
Don't you want your grandchildren to grow up?
There's no need for any of these threats and talk of nuclear war as if we're talking about the weather.
Every morning I wake up in terror. I listen to mainstream media hype this potential conflict, and essentially assert "something" must be done.
Yes something must be done: we have to stop Trump and "his" military.
There are other means to deal with North Korea than sending a fleet to their doorstep and threatening pre-emptive "strikes."
Where is JFK when we need him?
Why must we all suffer such nonstop fear from the popular vote loser president, who knows nothing about anything, least of all diplomacy?
Nuclear war is NOT an option. It is never an option.
The fact that one must even state this is terrifying.
Wake up, Trump.
Don't you want your grandchildren to grow up?
7
Kim seems to think nuclear war is an excellent option. How do you counter that? Talk to him some more? Clearly that has not worked with him or any or his predecessors over the past 25 years. Besides Trump bashing are there any ideas here for solving the NK nuclear threat?
This is what happens when you have bumbling incompetents running the White House. Rather than taking careful, calculated approaches to reining in NK's nuclear ambitions, Trump's team counters every provocative move with aggressive statements and actions, walking right into Kim Jong Un's nuclear fantasy. Pitting one extreme narcissist against another never ends well, and we may end up paying for feeding their egos.
After all the recent failures of Korea launching missiles it appears a Korean nuclear missile aimed at the US has a better chance of hitting China then the US. Cuba is 4000 miles closer then Korea and it was Russian bombs. This isn't even close to the Cuban missile crisis.
3
Tens of millions of lives are at stake in South Korea's capital alone, so I'd say it's orders of magnitudes worse. It just takes one. And the DPRK already has dozens and has shown a willingness to "go for it".
1
The have submarines launched missiles too...
Actually, it is very close. NK is fully capable of dropping nuclear weapons on South Korea and Japan. If that happens, the US will have to respond. Then it's game over for all of us.
We have already created a big mess in the Middle East and it looks like we are about to do the same in North Korea. The US is getting deeper and deeper into conflicts. The US with its massive and sophisticated weaponry cannot resolve this situation alone and need the help of China, Russia and the rest of the world. War is not and has never been the answer….just look at past history.
We all live on this one planet…..yet we cannot live in peace. There are 9 countries harboring Nuclear Weapons which translate to thousands of weapons. What happens if one of these other countries decides to use its weapons? Will the US intervene risking more conflict?
It is unfathomable to think that the human race would commit to annihilation for the sake of ego and saving face but this is exactly what is happening here. You have two incompetent leaders showing off their testosterone in addition to a self serving congress only concerned with wealth and corruption. Without diplomacy and communication, this is a no win situation.
The Doomsday Clock is ticking and people not only here in the US but around the world are oblivious to it.
We all live on this one planet…..yet we cannot live in peace. There are 9 countries harboring Nuclear Weapons which translate to thousands of weapons. What happens if one of these other countries decides to use its weapons? Will the US intervene risking more conflict?
It is unfathomable to think that the human race would commit to annihilation for the sake of ego and saving face but this is exactly what is happening here. You have two incompetent leaders showing off their testosterone in addition to a self serving congress only concerned with wealth and corruption. Without diplomacy and communication, this is a no win situation.
The Doomsday Clock is ticking and people not only here in the US but around the world are oblivious to it.
7
"We" created a big mess in the middle east? I think you mean eight years of Obama and Democrat incompetence preceded by eight years of Republican establishment tomfoolery don't you?
1
Why is this (again) only an American problem? Nuclear proliferation should be a topic all nations would be interested in stopping and reversing. Trump needs to tread lightly; his trade negotiations with China are not worth putting Korea on a tenuous trip wire anymore than it already is.
There are 2 things that are certain: North Korea has nuclear weapons and will never give them up; and North Korea will eventually be able to deliver a nuclear warhead to the US, via an intercontinental ballistic missile. What options does the US have short of war?
3
A peace treaty recognizing the DPRK's existence and a transfer to SK of as many B-61s as THEY think THEY need to defend THEIR citizens against a nasty neighbor.
1
What to do about North Korea.
You have a megalomaniacal, childlike sociopath who thinks he's playing with his toys with nuclear weapons, and who has gone way beyond anything his father ever imagined. And on the other side you have Kim Jong-un. No easy fix.
You have a megalomaniacal, childlike sociopath who thinks he's playing with his toys with nuclear weapons, and who has gone way beyond anything his father ever imagined. And on the other side you have Kim Jong-un. No easy fix.
12
Thanks, Repubs, for taking us to the brink of nuclear crisis with an idiotic so-called "president" who likes the praise he's been getting for dropping bombs.
This kind of danger—which those of us with brains foresaw—is what you were wiling to risk to retain your (stolen) SC seat?!
You still have time to show your spine and get this fool out of office. Will you?
This kind of danger—which those of us with brains foresaw—is what you were wiling to risk to retain your (stolen) SC seat?!
You still have time to show your spine and get this fool out of office. Will you?
6
Where were the spines of Bill Clinton, George Bush and Barack Obama over the last 24 years? They made this mess and let it fester didn't they? Trump hasn't been in office three months.
And the lesson that Trump has learned from his recent brush with politics is that the United States needs (following the cues of the Obama administration) to invest in even more nuclear weapons? An arms race - what a really terrific idea! Maybe the associated rhetoric will help one party or the other win that impending election in New Jersey or South Carolina.
At the turn of the last Century (1900) it was dreadnought superiority that governments sought. This anticipated the outbreak of WWI (the purported war to end all wars) between the European powers. When push came to shove the zero-sum-game didn't quite work out and it certainly didn't lead in its aftermath to the end of war.
The 20th Century was a trail of tears and the 21st - to-date - has proven itself to be no different. While the United States still has the economic legs how about a global push to eliminate nuclear weapons? Is ISIS or Al-Qaida or the Taliban really the number one global threat to civilian life? I really don't lie awake at night wondering about them coming to my neighborhood.
Nuclear weapons are a different story. We have already had numerous close calls (remember eight consecutive zeros as the universal launch code for American missiles for about 20 years?) since 1945. Anybody who thinks that it can't happen is only insuring that it will happen. The law of averages guarantees that.
Our government consists of fools who want to wrangle about nonsense when the fate of billions is on the line.
At the turn of the last Century (1900) it was dreadnought superiority that governments sought. This anticipated the outbreak of WWI (the purported war to end all wars) between the European powers. When push came to shove the zero-sum-game didn't quite work out and it certainly didn't lead in its aftermath to the end of war.
The 20th Century was a trail of tears and the 21st - to-date - has proven itself to be no different. While the United States still has the economic legs how about a global push to eliminate nuclear weapons? Is ISIS or Al-Qaida or the Taliban really the number one global threat to civilian life? I really don't lie awake at night wondering about them coming to my neighborhood.
Nuclear weapons are a different story. We have already had numerous close calls (remember eight consecutive zeros as the universal launch code for American missiles for about 20 years?) since 1945. Anybody who thinks that it can't happen is only insuring that it will happen. The law of averages guarantees that.
Our government consists of fools who want to wrangle about nonsense when the fate of billions is on the line.
3
NK has declared it has the right to defend itself. Given our history waging wars against countries that don't play to our tune and don't have nukes, I can't blame them for wanting to have it, and now that they have it, we are not going to touch them.
BTW, how come no coverage of the slaughter the rebels did by killing over 100 pro-government civilians that were being rescued from rebel areas. What gives NYT? You had wall to wall coverage for days after the same number killed by gassing.
BTW, how come no coverage of the slaughter the rebels did by killing over 100 pro-government civilians that were being rescued from rebel areas. What gives NYT? You had wall to wall coverage for days after the same number killed by gassing.
2
Seriously -- if they had dropped a MOAB on this parade instead of in a remote corner of Pakistan, the whole crisis -- and the NK government in current form, would be over. So in reality there is a viable pre-emptive option that would work.
Antiwar as one must be, the reality is that only when we become ruthless and all-out for victory, do we win. We killed 100,000 Tokyo citizens in a weekend of firebombing, 400,000 with nuclear bombs, we killed 1,200,000 Germans in urban carpet bombing, and now we whine when a precise strike is in error and we kill 22?
Our fear of the violence of war is what has put us in this situation -- halfway efforts fail us, and so we watch a theocracy (Iran) and an idiotocracy (NK) intimidate us
Antiwar as one must be, the reality is that only when we become ruthless and all-out for victory, do we win. We killed 100,000 Tokyo citizens in a weekend of firebombing, 400,000 with nuclear bombs, we killed 1,200,000 Germans in urban carpet bombing, and now we whine when a precise strike is in error and we kill 22?
Our fear of the violence of war is what has put us in this situation -- halfway efforts fail us, and so we watch a theocracy (Iran) and an idiotocracy (NK) intimidate us
3
It will indeed be fascinating to see whether Trump causes the deaths of many millions of people and a worldwide depression by attacking North Korea and thereby causing the greatest artillery assault on a city in the history of war when North Korea annihilated Seoul and the Korean economy just as surely as if they had vaporized both with a nuke. It's tragic that Trump's feeble brain and narcissistic ego can't grasp the concept of "no good options," The American masses used to elect sane, responsible, prudent leaders like Eisenhower and JFK. Now our mob chooses Trump instead. You get the self-destruction you pay for.
4
He'll start WWIII, and his supporters will STILL support him. Just watch.
How do you deal with a madman?
Within the realm of possibilities cyber sabotage while seeking rapprochement with the Chinese seems to me the best course, at least for now.
Surely the Chinese have a national interest in tamping down tensions on the Korean peninsula, and avoiding nuclear war on its border. We should be able to work together towards that end.
Within the realm of possibilities cyber sabotage while seeking rapprochement with the Chinese seems to me the best course, at least for now.
Surely the Chinese have a national interest in tamping down tensions on the Korean peninsula, and avoiding nuclear war on its border. We should be able to work together towards that end.
3
Are we willing to give the lives of our children to a Trump war? We knew when he increased military and Congress passed a bill that women must now register for the draft exactly what he was planning, war. Does he even know what he is doing? Will the rich have to die in this war or will they just reap the profits like in Viet-Nam? We know if he does not start this war, he will start another,which will lead to World War III.
2
24 Comments so far on this quasi-Cuban Missile Crisis story. Compare that with the thousands on the United Airlines passenger removal article!
1
Many here seem to forget that Obama felt the same way as Trump when it comes to North Korea. He stepped up the military presence and urged China to reign in their support of N Korea. China has pulled back their purchase of coal from N Korea, but will not condemn their pursuit of weapon production.
The US is not a threat to N Korea, N Korea is a threat to the region. This is not the Cuban missile crisis. This is a country that has been out of control for decades. One run by intimidation, torture, and imprisonment. While Cuba committed the same atrocities onto it's people, it also created schools and a system of communism that had good intentions, but in the end did not work. There are no good intentions in N Korea.
The US is not a threat to N Korea, N Korea is a threat to the region. This is not the Cuban missile crisis. This is a country that has been out of control for decades. One run by intimidation, torture, and imprisonment. While Cuba committed the same atrocities onto it's people, it also created schools and a system of communism that had good intentions, but in the end did not work. There are no good intentions in N Korea.
5
North Korea is a failed nation state with nuclear weapons run by an evil. murderous madman.
There are no good options, least of all for the people of North Korea.
There are no good options, least of all for the people of North Korea.
1
North Korea is not the Cuban missile crisis, nowhere near it. This narrative is idiotic and plays into Donald Trump's constant deflection away from his corruption, and collusion with Russia. I only hope this idiotic administration, led by the pathological liar imbecile, Donald Trump, kick a hornet's nest of trouble in North Korea.
2
Chilling. Two leaders, both impulsive and irrational. Scarier than Kennedy v Kruschev, neither of them impulsive nor irrational. Let's hope Trump listens to the right people. And thank goodness trigger-happy Flynn is out of the picture.
3
If North Korea were to launch an ICBM at the US, the US would respond by leveling NK. China would stand down and allow it. NK knows this. The party would be over for the Kims.
This latest comic tragedy is yet another of their periodic tantrums that past US presidents have settled down via diplomacy, with negotiations NK then can use in the propaganda control of its people.
Trump decided to call Kim's bluff, rather than simply assembling another set of negotiations that allow things to go on as usual. Trump is a fool. His children are not the ones who would put their lives on the line. His children have ski vacations planned.
This latest comic tragedy is yet another of their periodic tantrums that past US presidents have settled down via diplomacy, with negotiations NK then can use in the propaganda control of its people.
Trump decided to call Kim's bluff, rather than simply assembling another set of negotiations that allow things to go on as usual. Trump is a fool. His children are not the ones who would put their lives on the line. His children have ski vacations planned.
1
Two insecure, narcissistic children with their fingers on the nuclear button. What could possibly go wrong?
3
Trump and Pence sure like those military jackets. Guess it makes them feel tough. North Korea will have a problem dealing with us because it's not unusual for us to break any agreement made.
Comparing this to the Cuban Missile crisis is such disingenuous claptrap, sorry. North Korean tension is serious, for sure, but the situation pales in comparison to CMC, given that was a confrontation at the pinnacle of Cold War, between virtually even adversaries, with nuclear warheads sitting 50 miles off Florida. This is a classic instance of never ending geopolitical chess that various stakeholders in US engage in, hyping up a situation for selfish interests. The military gets to play their little war games with, in reality, an impotent enemy that can't really harm the CONNUS. Great chance to pitch their case for more funding! The globalist capitalist crowd wants all hands on deck to fight potential battles for tech cash cow South Korea. The media and #Resist crowd hungrily hovers over Trump administration, looking for any potential feeding opportunity, and gee, more viewership on top! US military shouldn't even BE in S Korea, save for reasons listed above. We should close foreign bases and divert funds to "moon shot" project to safeguard US from rogue nuclear attacks, which should be possible. But that's too easy & too common sense, and doesn't slate appetites of vulturous parties named above.
"...the presence of a hidden Washington hand." To better understand this cryptic phrase, readers should view the docudrama "Zero Days".
No Trump fan here but years of kicking the can down the road hasn't worked. Clinton, Bush and Obama failed miserably here. The very same people preaching strategic patience will be the loudest critics when a North Korean missile reaches Alaska or Hawaii.
Time to settle this. With or without China.
Sincerely,
A veteran.
Time to settle this. With or without China.
Sincerely,
A veteran.
3
The only reason Trump or his lapdogs are interested in North Korea or Syria is to deflect attention from the illegal and unethical activities their involved in as an elected officials.
Come on, Congress.
Don't drop the ball on your investigation.
Come on, Congress.
Don't drop the ball on your investigation.
1
During the troubled 1930's, Churchill quoted an old limerick:
"There was a young lady of Niger
Who smiled as she rode on a tiger.
They returned from the ride
With the lady inside
And a smile on the face of the tiger."
The dictators (he said) are like the lady, riding about on tigers which they dare not dismount. And the tigers are getting hungry.
Which in the case of North Korea is literally true. A country incapable of feeding its own people. I truly believe--if the North Koreans had the power and simply reckoned up what their own leadership has done to them these many years--the suffering and privation, the endless propaganda, the unrelenting tyranny, the stifling of independent thought, independent life . . .
. . . .they would rise up and tear Mr. Kim limb from limb. The words of Vladimir Nabokov come to mind. A dictatorship, he said, is ipso facto at war with its own subjects. I think Mr. Kim has no desire to be torn to pieces.
Hence the long, ostentatious parade of nuclear missiles. Something for the hungry masses to look at. Divert their gaze, maybe, from the fat face and chubby body of the youngster who leads them.
We should (in all seriousness) be praying for President Trump and his advisors. With North Korea, I think, they have their hands full.
"There was a young lady of Niger
Who smiled as she rode on a tiger.
They returned from the ride
With the lady inside
And a smile on the face of the tiger."
The dictators (he said) are like the lady, riding about on tigers which they dare not dismount. And the tigers are getting hungry.
Which in the case of North Korea is literally true. A country incapable of feeding its own people. I truly believe--if the North Koreans had the power and simply reckoned up what their own leadership has done to them these many years--the suffering and privation, the endless propaganda, the unrelenting tyranny, the stifling of independent thought, independent life . . .
. . . .they would rise up and tear Mr. Kim limb from limb. The words of Vladimir Nabokov come to mind. A dictatorship, he said, is ipso facto at war with its own subjects. I think Mr. Kim has no desire to be torn to pieces.
Hence the long, ostentatious parade of nuclear missiles. Something for the hungry masses to look at. Divert their gaze, maybe, from the fat face and chubby body of the youngster who leads them.
We should (in all seriousness) be praying for President Trump and his advisors. With North Korea, I think, they have their hands full.
1
From Donald Trump: "After listening for 10 minutes, I realized it’s not so easy,” he said. “It’s not what you would think.”
Trump spent many months campaigning for his party's nomination and then the presidency. He got the China/North Korea relationship wrong the whole time. He could have taken 10 minutes to get it right. He didn't bother to do that. Now, with 10 minutes of education, he's one of the principal players in a drama on which millions of lives may depend.
Trump spent many months campaigning for his party's nomination and then the presidency. He got the China/North Korea relationship wrong the whole time. He could have taken 10 minutes to get it right. He didn't bother to do that. Now, with 10 minutes of education, he's one of the principal players in a drama on which millions of lives may depend.
2
Notwithstanding the horror and nuttiness of Kim, and the military stalemate of the Peninsula, there are no analogies, not between Moscow-Cuba and JFK. Moscow had an empire, Kim has none. Kim is camped in no one else's country or hemisphere. Kim has nobody's sympathy, not even China's (there isn't even a Stalinist Albania!). There's no international law he's broken because N Korea withdrew from Non-proliferation. Kim calls it "self-defence." Israel, by way the way, never signed the treaty. The Bannonites don't even recognise the Treaty because Treaty obligations are "globalism" and prevent non-signatories from hiding their bombs. Hey Donald, you're not the man, and your regime is as narcissistic as any Kim Jung-un.
2
Like Cuba missile crisis, the only possible resolution to end NKorea nuke/missile threat is guarantee by US not to attack and N-S peace treaty backed by US and China. Pres Xi can make this happen.
It's obvious to me the establishment media has once again jumped on the war bandwagon. Sometimes one has to listen very carefully for clues, as in when "Morning" Joe said today the DPRK's unsuccessful weekend missile was ". . most likely launched from a submarine."
This is the first I'd heard of such a capability. I knew The DPRK has old soviet-era diesel powered submarines but had no idea they wera capable of launching missiles. Are they? I still don't think so.
If the fat boy has submarine launched missiles, who care ablout ICBMs? Just sail over to San Fran and toss a few into Palo Alto. Where did Joe get the info to drop such a startling bon mot? Is there something I missed?
This is the first I'd heard of such a capability. I knew The DPRK has old soviet-era diesel powered submarines but had no idea they wera capable of launching missiles. Are they? I still don't think so.
If the fat boy has submarine launched missiles, who care ablout ICBMs? Just sail over to San Fran and toss a few into Palo Alto. Where did Joe get the info to drop such a startling bon mot? Is there something I missed?
In 1961;
We had the Kennedy brothers @ WH
We had Dean Rusk @ DoS
We had McNamara @ DoD
We had experienced hands and analytical minds
We now have a fake TV personality impersonating as POUS with his ex-model daughter and a rich RE kid calling the shots!
God save us!
We had the Kennedy brothers @ WH
We had Dean Rusk @ DoS
We had McNamara @ DoD
We had experienced hands and analytical minds
We now have a fake TV personality impersonating as POUS with his ex-model daughter and a rich RE kid calling the shots!
God save us!
3
Kim appears to be a frightened boy, who is left trying to bully his frail ego. Unfortunately for us trump is exactly the same. Two idiots trying to inflate their egos, this does not end well for the world.
Matters like these more than any other have me wishing that a more sane candidate had won the election. The Donald can rant and Tweet all he wants in the domestic sphere, but checks and balances ensure that no single person will have absolute control over domestic policymaking. Foreign policy and the military are different. The executive has virtually unlimited control over the course of action the United States takes in the wider world, and thanks to a century of military building has the capability provoke foreign conflict, intentionally or not.
The silver lining here is that the ideologues in Trump‘s inner circle, namely Steve Bannon, are increasingly sidelined due to their limited practical experience with world affairs. The national security and military establishment are by no means peaceniks, but they hardly desire nuclear war. My hope is that they will steer Trump on a course that preserves stability in the region, coordinating closely with China, South Korea, and Japan to prevent North Korea from gaining ICBM technology and missile-ready warheads.
The silver lining here is that the ideologues in Trump‘s inner circle, namely Steve Bannon, are increasingly sidelined due to their limited practical experience with world affairs. The national security and military establishment are by no means peaceniks, but they hardly desire nuclear war. My hope is that they will steer Trump on a course that preserves stability in the region, coordinating closely with China, South Korea, and Japan to prevent North Korea from gaining ICBM technology and missile-ready warheads.
71
Trump can still send troops to battle without Congress to fight terrorism and South Korea fills that bill by it's belligerent stance. That is ironically how we are perceived globally as well.
Lots of theater between the two immature leaders.
Trump shows off our military capabilities and willingness to use it by lobbing missiles at Syria (not Iraq) over chocolate cake, by dropping a very big bomb in Afghanistan and by sending some ships towards N. Korea.
Kim Jong Un puts together a very big parade.
Then NSA Director McMasters says we won't intervene militarily. (So much for not advertising tactics.). Hmmmmm... Sure hope that Kim Jong Un got that message.
Time for the grown ups to intervene.
Trump shows off our military capabilities and willingness to use it by lobbing missiles at Syria (not Iraq) over chocolate cake, by dropping a very big bomb in Afghanistan and by sending some ships towards N. Korea.
Kim Jong Un puts together a very big parade.
Then NSA Director McMasters says we won't intervene militarily. (So much for not advertising tactics.). Hmmmmm... Sure hope that Kim Jong Un got that message.
Time for the grown ups to intervene.
42
The grown ups had 8 years and just watched.
Any US president, not just Trump, would view North Korea's successful development of an ICBM that could hit the US as a massive provocation and would probably respond with a preemptive strike or threat of a strike. We can debate over whether or not that's right, but the current US position is not unusual in that regard.
What is unusual is escalating tensions instead of trying to defuse them when we're not at that point.
The US has tried varying degrees of hardline and conciliatory approaches to North Korea. None of them have worked particularly well, because the North Korean government is crazy. The advantage of the conciliatory approach is that it's probably cheaper to bribe North Korea not to act stupidly than it is to start a war. And, maybe, if we hold off a conflict, the regime will one day fall in some way other than by starting a war with the US.
You could argue that it's a failure of this approach if North Korea's ability to threaten the West, South Korea, or Japan increases as time goes on. But: North Korea developed its nuclear weapons under a relatively hardline regime (the Bush administration strategy of Six Party Talks). And how would it change? I take it that developing an ICBM would be a red line that would prompt an immediate US response. The North can already threaten South Korea and Japan with nuclear weapons. It's not clear what marginal improvements they could make to their military stance that we would tolerate at this point.
What is unusual is escalating tensions instead of trying to defuse them when we're not at that point.
The US has tried varying degrees of hardline and conciliatory approaches to North Korea. None of them have worked particularly well, because the North Korean government is crazy. The advantage of the conciliatory approach is that it's probably cheaper to bribe North Korea not to act stupidly than it is to start a war. And, maybe, if we hold off a conflict, the regime will one day fall in some way other than by starting a war with the US.
You could argue that it's a failure of this approach if North Korea's ability to threaten the West, South Korea, or Japan increases as time goes on. But: North Korea developed its nuclear weapons under a relatively hardline regime (the Bush administration strategy of Six Party Talks). And how would it change? I take it that developing an ICBM would be a red line that would prompt an immediate US response. The North can already threaten South Korea and Japan with nuclear weapons. It's not clear what marginal improvements they could make to their military stance that we would tolerate at this point.
8
Actually Clinton had negotiated with them and they were following the terms. They had agreed to stop enriching uranium one way but still were doing it another but they were slowed tremendously. The cowboy Bush came in and, instead of building on those negotiations insulted the North Korean leader and followed a policy of undoing anything Clinton did.
I cannot agree that the present state of affairs in North Korea resembles the Cuban Missile Crisis, and might add that such a characterization artificially enhances a moderate problem. There was no China capable of intervening and controlling the situation in October of 1962. Kim Jong Un is hardly as savvy as Fidel Castro. For that matter Donald Trump and Rex Tillerson are pathetic when compared to JFK and RFK, who were the principal architects of solving the problem of nuclear weapons in Cuba; which Robert Litwak should recall was a literal knife to the throat of America. North Korea is not so dire. Lastly, if the NY Times wishes to maintain its journalistic credibility, overplaying North Korea in it's anti-Trump campaign is not the way.
190
Kim will keep testing. Yesterday showed us that. If that missile hadn't "failed" we could have shot it down, causing the DPRK to retaliate against SK or our ships. As a matter of fact, I would have expected a response from us. Tillerson had his ten-gallon hat handed to him by the pros in Moscow. They don't like Brennan and McCain's false flags... and neither should we!!
JFK was high the whole time on speed and painkillers and lucky as heck.
JFK was high the whole time on speed and painkillers and lucky as heck.
I agree that there are many differences of detail between the Cuban Missile Crisis and the current situation with North Korea. I also agree that the immediate threat to the US is less dire than in 1962. But it's hard to overplay the North Korean threat in the long run. North Korea is only determined to become more dangerous and is unlikely to stop on its own until it becomes an existential threat to the US. The North Korean regime appears less rational than those of Cuba and the Soviet Union. And millions of people in South Korea, Japan, and elsewhere do have a knife at their throat, just as the US did in 1962.
As bad as Trump is in so many ways, none of that is his fault. But he's the one who has to deal with it, as flawed as he may be. As a NY Times reader, I'm very interested in how that goes.
As bad as Trump is in so many ways, none of that is his fault. But he's the one who has to deal with it, as flawed as he may be. As a NY Times reader, I'm very interested in how that goes.
4
Khrushchev was also a principal architect of solving the Cuban Missile crisis.
3
Why is this administration so eager to start multiple wars?
We can't be involved in the Middle East and North Korea at the same time, even if we have the most powerful military in the world, the best weapons, etc., the cost of maintaining multiple wars will cripple our economy and stretch the military too thin.
We, the U.S, won't benefit from this, maybe the military industrial complex will benefit, but everyone else won't.
We can't be involved in the Middle East and North Korea at the same time, even if we have the most powerful military in the world, the best weapons, etc., the cost of maintaining multiple wars will cripple our economy and stretch the military too thin.
We, the U.S, won't benefit from this, maybe the military industrial complex will benefit, but everyone else won't.
364
"Why is this administration so eager to start multiple wars?"
1. Because aggression and threats of force are the only way Trump knows to "solve" problems.
2. Because last week, he got a lot of praise for dropping a few bombs that really didn't even do much damage.
When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. And authoritarians always make the mistake of thinking that if they're tough enough, the other side will back down. They don't realize that when they're facing another authoritarian, both are playing the same game.
1. Because aggression and threats of force are the only way Trump knows to "solve" problems.
2. Because last week, he got a lot of praise for dropping a few bombs that really didn't even do much damage.
When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. And authoritarians always make the mistake of thinking that if they're tough enough, the other side will back down. They don't realize that when they're facing another authoritarian, both are playing the same game.
3
Our military equipment is in a state of disrepair due to its constant use. Replacements might be the way to jump start the economy?
Make that the military industrial Congressional complex, as Ike's original notes indicate.
3
Both Trump and Kim are big on saber-rattling. But if either lets the sabers go, untold scores of innocents are going to pay the price.
American cyber attacks on North Korea were a possible reason for last weekend's failed missile launch. It will take that kind of technological approach to keep people alive.
American cyber attacks on North Korea were a possible reason for last weekend's failed missile launch. It will take that kind of technological approach to keep people alive.
4
This so called president trump is no president Kennedy, and that's frankly very scary. Everything trump does is a stunt with a very calculated eventual outcome. His actions are not 'normal' or benevolent in any way. He's an evil, manipulative man. That it's lethal stuff he's recklessly playing with doesn't matter.
25
Most Americans are ignorant of the history of North Korea, unaware that at least 20% of their population was killed in the Korean War, perhaps as much as 30% of the population. If the United States had lost a similar portion of our population, that would have been over 30 million people.
That has clearly had a profound effect on their subsequent thinking and history, just as it would have for us.
That has clearly had a profound effect on their subsequent thinking and history, just as it would have for us.
12
Who will stop a madman surrounded by military? Take your pick - one in N Korea and one here.
17
When you have two nations filled with people suffering and looking for release, and two leaders mesmerized by weaponry and the ability to create mass slaughter and in the case of Trump has had his first taste of blood and clearly like Kim Jong-Ju loves the ability to kill and dominate we are all in deep deep trouble.
10
In slow motion. How wonderful to have a commander in chief who THINKS in slow motion. Thanks, GOP.
11
The problem is that his thinking is so slow that at the end of a thought he forgot already how it began.
1
One thought that crosses my mind is that unlike the Cuban crisis, it seems less likely that either China or Russia are playing a major hand. One might wonder if the best way to deal with this is to just ignore them? Oh, a reminder of the power of an ICBM or 3 that a number of nations are perfectly capable of delivering... Kim craves attention but has few technological resources. As long as he raves inside his playpen he poses no real threat, IMHO.
1
There is a huge difference between the Cuban missile crisis and this one- the trustworthiness of our Commander in Chief. Trump is no JFK. I hope this ends well in spite of Trump. I'm not sure it will.
22
I don't know how to resolve this situation, and I fear trump knows less than I.
61
Gosh and golly. Don't ya know that in trump lingo it should be less than 'me'?
Trump vs. Kim Jong-Un? What could go wrong?
55
“After listening for 10 minutes, I realized it’s not so easy.”
Gee, Donald, this is almost as complicated as health care. I hope enough Americans are thinking about what an on-the-job training program can lead to and will vote accordingly.
Gee, Donald, this is almost as complicated as health care. I hope enough Americans are thinking about what an on-the-job training program can lead to and will vote accordingly.
111
Nothing is ever "so easy." Except maybe going to Mar a Lago. At least it will be out of range for a while.
20
Nut Trump wants to hold back fuel from North Korea. That's just what precipitated WWII. when it was done to Japan.
The Military is out of control with their "Pivot To Asia" and Trump is a mad man.
The Military is out of control with their "Pivot To Asia" and Trump is a mad man.
24
This crisis shows why the hate fest of the against Putin and Russia conducted by the media and partisans of Hillary Clinton was so ill-advised. North Korea is a true threat to the United States. It is only a very few years from developing ballistic missiles which can strike the United States. It has a very aggressive and dangerous, and apparently irrational, leader. The way to stop Kim Jong-Un is through aggressive diplomacy. For that, we need the cooperation of all the powers in the region--South Korea, Japan, China--and Russia. You do not have to like Putin to feel this way. You can condemn his autocratic ways but you must work with him. Whatever his flaws, he is a rational actor with a very important role to play.
4
Caleb, it isn't just "partisans of Hillary Clinton" who are concerned about Russian influence on U.S. elections through targeted hacks, leaks, fake news and outreach to political operatives. Our European allies alerted us to these issues, and many Republican lawmakers are disturbed by it too.
Putin may have supported your favorite candidates and policies in 2016, but there is no guaranty you'll agree with him on his next choices. Working with him should not mean giving him a vote in our elections nor covert influence on our lawmakers.
Putin may have supported your favorite candidates and policies in 2016, but there is no guaranty you'll agree with him on his next choices. Working with him should not mean giving him a vote in our elections nor covert influence on our lawmakers.
4
We are playing a very very dangerous game and a country's populace will lose. Simply stated, which country HAVE THE MOST TO LOSE. So, when dealing with two bullies you don't antagonize them. That's what the American media is doing and loves doing so. Antagonize DJT. Antagonize Jim Jong.
It's a dangerous game of chicken and someone ALWAYS lose. Question: Will it be the United States of America because no one wins all the time!
Communicate, negotiate or at least shut up!
It's a dangerous game of chicken and someone ALWAYS lose. Question: Will it be the United States of America because no one wins all the time!
Communicate, negotiate or at least shut up!
4
This time however we don't have a profile in courage president we have a female gentile grabber who brags he doesn't pay his taxes because he is smart.
But never mind, he is smarter than the generals, he alone can stop ISIS! And he is single handledly bringing back coal.
The anxiety is the same. The outcome not sure.
But never mind, he is smarter than the generals, he alone can stop ISIS! And he is single handledly bringing back coal.
The anxiety is the same. The outcome not sure.
42
a female gentile grabber…
I'll bet all those shiksas who voted for him anyway are sorry now.
I'll bet all those shiksas who voted for him anyway are sorry now.
1
Thank you for a very informative article about the nuclear capability of North Korea. Hope you will follow up with an objective, intelligent analysis by an international relations expert regarding what our next moves -- or general policy -- should be, free-- please!-- of any political ranting. Perhaps rather than a "Cuban Crisis in slow motion", we could have, with the right strategy, a Cuban crisis prevented. Show us (and Trump) how.
6
Like Cuba missile crisis, the only possible resolution to end NKorea nuke/missile threat is gusrantee by US not to attack and N-S peace trewty backed by US and China. Pres Xi can make this happen.
6
The best of all end games, save the end of the bloodthirsty despicable dictatorship in North Korea. Can the Chinese really effect this? I certainly hope so.
China absolutely does not want the dictatorship in North Korea to end -- that would almost certainly result in the reunification of Korea.
Like the reunification of Germany, but even more so, the extraordinary difference in the economies and organization of north and south would guarantee that a unified Korea would be dominated by the south, though struggling for many years to achieve anything approximating a unified country.
China absolutely does not want a westernized strong unified Korea on its border.
Like the reunification of Germany, but even more so, the extraordinary difference in the economies and organization of north and south would guarantee that a unified Korea would be dominated by the south, though struggling for many years to achieve anything approximating a unified country.
China absolutely does not want a westernized strong unified Korea on its border.
2
When Kim was first toying with nukes, we said "naughty." When he launched larger missiles, we said "keep it up and you'll be spanked." And as he continued we fretted, saying it was too late to force a stop. We scolded more and he continued further; a madman with real WMDs. I guess we just keep fretting and chiding until he has shown us a real mushroom-shaped cloud near, say, Cleveland. Then we'll all say, "should have stopped him earlier."
13
Or 62 million people should have thought the consequences of their vote.
As Trump was first toying with 59 rockets, some learned foreign policy experts inside this country and in most other advanced countries said "naughty".
They scolded more and he continued further. a madman with real WMDs.
I guess we just keep fretting and chiding until he has shown us a real mushroom-shaped cloud near, say, Pyongyang. Then we'll all say, "should have stopped him earlier".
They scolded more and he continued further. a madman with real WMDs.
I guess we just keep fretting and chiding until he has shown us a real mushroom-shaped cloud near, say, Pyongyang. Then we'll all say, "should have stopped him earlier".
2
Hank, if you mean a repeat of George W. Bush's attempt to "stop Iraq from getting weapons of mass destruction," please count me out!
5
Is this not the scariest scenario imaginable? Two, impulsive, unstable, juvenile, and narcissistic leaders with nuclear weapons.
Kim Jongun is the mirror image of Trump and this tit for tat is going to have global consequences. Trump who spends three days a week golfing in West Palm Beach has no idea what he's doing. The smallest miscalculation and we'll find S. Korea, the US, Japan and China all thrust into a potential nuclear war.
Kim Jongun is the mirror image of Trump and this tit for tat is going to have global consequences. Trump who spends three days a week golfing in West Palm Beach has no idea what he's doing. The smallest miscalculation and we'll find S. Korea, the US, Japan and China all thrust into a potential nuclear war.
236
No, Trump is more vicious and less intelligent.
We're talking about the same principle A.T. Mahan introduced back in 1890. He was talking about sea power but the concept is the same. Your security is my threat and my security is your threat. That's the genesis of any arms race. As mentioned, Trump's problem is that there's nothing he can really do at this time. There exists no military solution without the potential for enormous humanitarian fallout. I don't use that term lightly either. Our only option at present is economic warfare.
Kim for his part is still messing things up though. As witnessed, an intermediate range nuclear missile is enough to cast doubt on any military intervention. Why push for an intercontinental capability that might force the United States to accept the risks associated with humanitarian catastrophe? In Kim's case, his own security is his own threat. That's where the Mahanian concept falls off the rails. Kim is pursuing a self-destructive agenda and the motive has nothing to do with the United States.
Oddly enough, I had friend visit this week who spent several years living in South Korea. Her explanation was simple. We're at the end of the North Korea winter. Everyone is starving. Kim needs to make a show of force or he'll likely collapse from within. South Korea doesn't really care because they've been watching the same program since the Cold War. I suspect my friend meant assassination rather than democratic uprising but you get the idea. Kim is on a collision course with himself.
Kim for his part is still messing things up though. As witnessed, an intermediate range nuclear missile is enough to cast doubt on any military intervention. Why push for an intercontinental capability that might force the United States to accept the risks associated with humanitarian catastrophe? In Kim's case, his own security is his own threat. That's where the Mahanian concept falls off the rails. Kim is pursuing a self-destructive agenda and the motive has nothing to do with the United States.
Oddly enough, I had friend visit this week who spent several years living in South Korea. Her explanation was simple. We're at the end of the North Korea winter. Everyone is starving. Kim needs to make a show of force or he'll likely collapse from within. South Korea doesn't really care because they've been watching the same program since the Cold War. I suspect my friend meant assassination rather than democratic uprising but you get the idea. Kim is on a collision course with himself.
22
Very insightful. I agree there is no strategic advantage to developing a North Korean ICBM. Kim has destroyed the North Korean economy and ground his people into the earth and is using the last device of a desperate despot to control his people; a threat or a focused hate against those outside the country. Willing to kill all his people in order to continue to be in power.
Actually this behavior is similar to Hitler. His generals told him to not attack Britain and Russia after conquering western Europe. Consolidate power, negotiate and live to fight another day. He wouldn't listen since he was smart enough to realize that if the German people were given a pause in fighting and hatred they would ultimately discard him as their leader and sue for peace.
Moral of the story is be careful of the leader who is quick to threaten others and talk up the need for aggression.
Actually this behavior is similar to Hitler. His generals told him to not attack Britain and Russia after conquering western Europe. Consolidate power, negotiate and live to fight another day. He wouldn't listen since he was smart enough to realize that if the German people were given a pause in fighting and hatred they would ultimately discard him as their leader and sue for peace.
Moral of the story is be careful of the leader who is quick to threaten others and talk up the need for aggression.
Trump of course knows about sacrifice in war. He evaded sacrifice not once but five times in the Viet Nam war ... a draft dodger par excellence while over 50,000 of his fellow americans let it all go as he carried on his hedonistic life style with absolutely no regrets or second thoughts. That this guy is calling the shots on military action affecting millions is appalling!
300
@ J. Townsend:
"That this guy is calling the shots on military action affecting millions is appalling!"
Even more appalling is that he calls it MY military.
"That this guy is calling the shots on military action affecting millions is appalling!"
Even more appalling is that he calls it MY military.
4
A lesson in learning from history: JFK was instructed in part by the lack of communication that may have been what ignited World War I. In the last analysis, he acted against military advice and saved us from destruction. Do we have anyone in the WH or the military with the same sensibility?
81
Kim Jong-un vs. Donald J(ong-un) Trump for the world heavy-weight title of malignant personality disorder.
Don't miss the match made in hell, humanity.
Coming soon to an apocalypse near you.
Don't miss the match made in hell, humanity.
Coming soon to an apocalypse near you.
77
"If we have all these nuclear weapons, why can't we use them?". That's the question DJT asked an expert foreign policy adviser in early 2016, no less than 3 times. Does anyone doubt he's itching to launch? I worry that he may create an "incident" to justify nuking a target or 2, we've done it before to start hostilities, but does he appreciate how much of a quantum leap that would be? How much more is at stake? China, Russia, the middle east, N. Korea and the horrible, disgusting hordes (and fake media) that are out to get him at home, that's as many hot spots as he can count on one hand. Since he can't keep track of 2 things at once, you have to conclude we're in deep and he's forgotten how to swim. Of course he could send Jared Kushner to solve this, but then he'd be seen as even more helpless, ineffective and bumbling. If he's marginalizing Bannon for stealing his thunder, he'll have to summarily execute Kushner, should he actually get anything done. There's no consolation to be taken form the next in line, whose religious fanaticism and Oedipal proclamations are more frightening in a way than those of our whacko tweety bird in chief. It feels like we're locked into a lose-lose, the Kobayashi Maru with no Capt. Kirk in sight. What we got here is a failure to cogitate.
3
Rather than trifle with the world's continuing habitability, perhaps Linda McMahon can arrange a steel cage match to work out the hostilities. First one to denude the other of his hairpiece wins...
1
From the article:
"Periodically, the North Koreans write about that experience, noting what a sap Colonel Qaddafi was to give up the nuclear program that might have saved him. Mr. Kim, it appears, is not planning to make the same mistake."
As is often remarked, "past is prologue".
Saddam Hussein and Qaddafi were removable because they lacked a nuclear deterrent - and now Little Kim has learned this lesson, and will refuse to give up his.
"Periodically, the North Koreans write about that experience, noting what a sap Colonel Qaddafi was to give up the nuclear program that might have saved him. Mr. Kim, it appears, is not planning to make the same mistake."
As is often remarked, "past is prologue".
Saddam Hussein and Qaddafi were removable because they lacked a nuclear deterrent - and now Little Kim has learned this lesson, and will refuse to give up his.
12
Significantly different. Technology: we relied upon liquid oxygen to power ICBM's during the Cuban crisis which only enabled portions of our missile arsenal to be ready at one time. The Russians faced the same constraint. Many military computer models attempted to guess when we would have more missiles ready than the Russkies. This vastly inflated the pressure for a first strike. Parity: though we had more weapons, the Russians still had enough (including H Bombs) to inflect tremendous damage. North Korea is equipped to hurt South Korea and maybe Japan. Conventional threat: North Korea has always relied upon its conventional capability to wipe out Seoul as its major deterrent. Taking out the nukes would not change that. Cuba had no such capability. Bay of Pigs: is Trump's bombast equal to that humiliation? Russian role: Cuba did not develop the nuclear capability. It offered geography. In fact, that location was more psychological than strategic. The Russian missiles would have done as much damage from a different launch point. Leadership: Niki and JFK were much more sane that Un and Don. That makes things scarier.
52
Learn from history from the great leaders like Lincoln.
You don't want to go too slow or too fast on this.
One could argue, the previous presidents like Obama, Bush 2, Clinton went too slow, ie minor sanctions and condemnations and nothing else.
On the other hand you don't want to do what the admitted war criminal Bush 2 did in Iraq, ie, invade and bomb it and create the horror story we have today in the mideast.
The key here is China. North Korea lives or dies on China. We should give China the carrot and stick approach here. Warn them if they do nothing and allow North Korea to continue with their nuclear program and military build up, we will start to supply more and more military aid to Japan and So Korea including encouraging them with our help to get limited nuclear weapons capability like North Korea has.
After China freaks out, give them the carrot, ie if they force North Korea to get rid of its nukes, we will get rid of our military presence in the area too.
You don't want to go too slow or too fast on this.
One could argue, the previous presidents like Obama, Bush 2, Clinton went too slow, ie minor sanctions and condemnations and nothing else.
On the other hand you don't want to do what the admitted war criminal Bush 2 did in Iraq, ie, invade and bomb it and create the horror story we have today in the mideast.
The key here is China. North Korea lives or dies on China. We should give China the carrot and stick approach here. Warn them if they do nothing and allow North Korea to continue with their nuclear program and military build up, we will start to supply more and more military aid to Japan and So Korea including encouraging them with our help to get limited nuclear weapons capability like North Korea has.
After China freaks out, give them the carrot, ie if they force North Korea to get rid of its nukes, we will get rid of our military presence in the area too.
6
"admitted war criminal Bush"
Such over the top hogwash, any point you sought to make after that is invalidated by your own rhetorical excess.
Such over the top hogwash, any point you sought to make after that is invalidated by your own rhetorical excess.
This isn't the 1930's. Japan is not a threat to China and that wouldn't change with us rearming them. Here is a list of road blocks to this "stick" you suggest:
Japan, as we insisted after the war, disavowed war. It is in article 9 of the Japanese Constitution.
If you are talking about nuclear arms, you might want to check on all the nonproliferation treaties that exist and Japan has signed. The U.S. and Japan would be violating international law. Not to mention the almost certain and strong protests of China and Russia (you know, two of the five members of the the U.N. security council), and probably France and Britain as well.
If you are talking about conventional weapons, how long do you think it would take to arm Japan with the quantity and quality of weapons needed to fight a modern war. Don't forget, your idea relies on Japan actually being capable of fighting China. It can't be a token force.
Who is going to pay for this rearmament? Japan? The U.S.?
Arming Japan does the opposite of adding stability to the situation. You might just for N. Korea's hand and then there will be a shooting war that will certainly kill hundreds of thousands, if not millions. N. Korea is not Iraq. The U.S. destroyed the Iraqi military. That is why the initial invasion was so quick. N. Korea is armed to the teeth and on a constant war footing.
Our military presence in the region is not only because of N. Korea. It is actually, primarily, because of China. We won't leave the region.
Japan, as we insisted after the war, disavowed war. It is in article 9 of the Japanese Constitution.
If you are talking about nuclear arms, you might want to check on all the nonproliferation treaties that exist and Japan has signed. The U.S. and Japan would be violating international law. Not to mention the almost certain and strong protests of China and Russia (you know, two of the five members of the the U.N. security council), and probably France and Britain as well.
If you are talking about conventional weapons, how long do you think it would take to arm Japan with the quantity and quality of weapons needed to fight a modern war. Don't forget, your idea relies on Japan actually being capable of fighting China. It can't be a token force.
Who is going to pay for this rearmament? Japan? The U.S.?
Arming Japan does the opposite of adding stability to the situation. You might just for N. Korea's hand and then there will be a shooting war that will certainly kill hundreds of thousands, if not millions. N. Korea is not Iraq. The U.S. destroyed the Iraqi military. That is why the initial invasion was so quick. N. Korea is armed to the teeth and on a constant war footing.
Our military presence in the region is not only because of N. Korea. It is actually, primarily, because of China. We won't leave the region.
Bush was a war criminal, but never admitted it.
The Constitution says that ratified treaties are "the Supreme Law of the Land." There are at least three such treaties the US is a signatory to that proscribe torture. As a reminder, we successfully prosecuted waterboarding as a CAPITAL WAR CRIME in the aftermath of WW II. So the John Yoo/Jay Bybee "Torture memos" are not only woefully insufficient to overcome our treaty obligations, but neither do they change our own legal precedent that waterboarding is a capital war crime.
Yes, he was a war criminal. No, he neither admitted it, nor did Obama pursue prosecution of those war crimes.
The Constitution says that ratified treaties are "the Supreme Law of the Land." There are at least three such treaties the US is a signatory to that proscribe torture. As a reminder, we successfully prosecuted waterboarding as a CAPITAL WAR CRIME in the aftermath of WW II. So the John Yoo/Jay Bybee "Torture memos" are not only woefully insufficient to overcome our treaty obligations, but neither do they change our own legal precedent that waterboarding is a capital war crime.
Yes, he was a war criminal. No, he neither admitted it, nor did Obama pursue prosecution of those war crimes.
2
The difference between this situation and Cuban Missile crisis is that this time, we look like the aggressor, because we have our military presence off of THEIR coast. Also, how can the US threaten North Korea successfully, when Seoul's 20 million people are within artillery range of the North's guns?
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Don't worry, fox fake news will find a way to spin it that small-man-child-hands-don is WINNING and our heads are spinning, and South Korea doesn't matter.
3
So Trump has run out of patience, now what? Does Trump realize that over 50,000 Americans died as a result of the Korean War, which has not official ended. North Korea would like very much to take over South Korea or at least significantly punish them. We may be able to take out all of the North's nuclear capabilities in a single strike, but we cannot take out all it's conventional weapons or significantly reduce the size of it's military. Any attack on North Korea will result in massive deaths to the South Koreans which will bring us into a hot conflict. Let's not forget that we fought the Chinese in the last Korean War and there's no guarantee that they wouldn't come to the aide of North Korean if there's another hot war.
This is no time for a macho standoff as the result can be more American lives lost in a foreign war. North Korea is no real threat to the US, but they are a very real threat to South Korea and possibly Japan.
This is no time for a macho standoff as the result can be more American lives lost in a foreign war. North Korea is no real threat to the US, but they are a very real threat to South Korea and possibly Japan.
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North Korea is also now a financial and geopolitical threat to China. Do not neglect the geopolitical and world economic changes between the Korean War and now. China has a huge interest in there not being another 'hot' war in the Pacific Rim.
3
Actually that is not true. Unfortunate as it may be, we can and must simultaneously take out their nuclear capability. Slice the size of the ground forces by 80-90% and remove most conventional capabilities. This will require a set of tactics not seen in recent warfare but the capability and the need exist in this case.
Who would launch a nuke with the possibility that the missile would explode "within seconds"?
The timetable is long enough that diplomacy MUST be tried. I suspect this confrontational approach reflects nothing more than impatience with subtlety and nuance.
The timetable is long enough that diplomacy MUST be tried. I suspect this confrontational approach reflects nothing more than impatience with subtlety and nuance.
20
Is there any way we can appeal to President Obama to return? We need him!
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Term limits. President Obama has served the maximum of two terms.
Another eight years of ignoring this threat is not going to solve the problem.
Obama took the lead in solving the Iranian nuclear problem without our customary national call for violence.
2
Sooner or later the world is going to have to come to grips with the fact that there needs to be international law on the possession and deployment of nuclear weapons and missiles that can strike thousands of miles away.
Of course, the hypocrisy of the rich nations who have thousands of nuclear weapons of mass destruction isn't mentioned, but when the end comes, if it does, in a blinding global flash of nuclear war, the fault will lie with those rich nations.
They could have helped the UN create a nuclear weapon free world. But they enjoyed their time swaggering about the world as holders of Security Council veto powers, so no change ever came.
Hugh Massengill, Eugene Oregon
Of course, the hypocrisy of the rich nations who have thousands of nuclear weapons of mass destruction isn't mentioned, but when the end comes, if it does, in a blinding global flash of nuclear war, the fault will lie with those rich nations.
They could have helped the UN create a nuclear weapon free world. But they enjoyed their time swaggering about the world as holders of Security Council veto powers, so no change ever came.
Hugh Massengill, Eugene Oregon
17
Remember the Kellogg-Briand pact? That international treaty outlawed war. Outlawing nuclear weapons would be equally effective.
We have the nut case ruler of North Korea and the egotistical leader of our country. Our voters were warned about giving this man the power of our nuclear arsenal. Hopefully, the more rational advisors of our president are working behind the scene with the Chinese to pressure the North Korean leader.
8
I don't know the solution to North Korea, but it is my belief, on his own, Kim will proceed with weapons development until he can target large U.S. cities with solid fueled ICBMs. Once something is launched, it is very difficult to shoot down. In general, people spend too little on prevention and far too much on remediation and we cannot afford such a failure.
7
I'm more concerned about the destruction Trump himself is doing to our country then this wackadoo in North Korea. His total sellout to all the polluting industries that manufacture poisonous air, water and food poses the greatest threat to our national security and future.
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"North Korea used to be pretty successful at launching missiles, so much so that its missiles were sold around the world. Then its launches started failing, suggesting the presence of a hidden Washington hand." That second sentence seems utterly unfounded and otherwise unsupported in the writing. What's up with that?
7
There's a link in the second paragraph: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/04/world/asia/north-korea-missile-progra...
Sometimes I think Republicans want us all to die.
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You mean because they deny global warming and want to eradicate the EPA, which information is no longer available on the internet.
17
Yes, that's one reason. Basically everything they do seems to be based on a complete disregard for (post-birth) human life.
12
We are all going to die including Republicans. Have a cookie and some warm milk.
What Xi Jinping's "compressed seminar" appears to have been mercifully devoid of is the old chestnut that North Korea is, or may be, "bluffing". This complacent misconception that has permeated the majority of reporting as well as think-tank and policy-making debate for well over a decade is, perhaps at last, coming to rest.
In this regard, Pres. Trump may have a head start on his predecessors, all too ready to see the North Korean nuke issue as secondary to Iran, to dismiss nuclear tests as "fizzles", and to find solace in a boosted nuclear device rather than a full-blown thermonuclear one.
It was high time to see and accept that the material ability for Pyongyang to threaten its region and beyond is real and growing. But many years have been wasted by consistent underestimation of North Korea's nuclear potential, progress and achievements.
True, the DPRK dystopia, the haircuts and hats, the bouncing goose-steps and frantic TV announcers look closer to a Tim Burton nightmare than to Huxley or Orwell.
But step one was acknowledging the reality and urgency of the problem.
And at long last, here we are.
In this regard, Pres. Trump may have a head start on his predecessors, all too ready to see the North Korean nuke issue as secondary to Iran, to dismiss nuclear tests as "fizzles", and to find solace in a boosted nuclear device rather than a full-blown thermonuclear one.
It was high time to see and accept that the material ability for Pyongyang to threaten its region and beyond is real and growing. But many years have been wasted by consistent underestimation of North Korea's nuclear potential, progress and achievements.
True, the DPRK dystopia, the haircuts and hats, the bouncing goose-steps and frantic TV announcers look closer to a Tim Burton nightmare than to Huxley or Orwell.
But step one was acknowledging the reality and urgency of the problem.
And at long last, here we are.
4
This headline could be about Mr. Trump.... "A mix of national ambitions, personal ego and deadly weapons is creating opportunities for miscalculation."
This appears to be a manufactured "crisis", and I'm not buying it.
This appears to be a manufactured "crisis", and I'm not buying it.
16
It's time for you to pay attention to reality. North Korea has been a very real threat to peace for a long time through several US administrations. A manufactured crisis? By whom and for what purpose?
I'm sure the South Koreans are really excited about President Trump's saber rattling. The entire peninsula is being held hostage by two egos.
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Neither of whom seems to understand the horrors of nuclear weapons.
Let's not make the same mistake as we made with Iraq. Remember that these tyrants need to look tough and maybe a little crazy to hold power. If they show weakness then someone will chop their head off. There is no benefit for this guy to start a war. He knows we will annihilate him and dying for the glory of North Korea is still death.
Just keep messing with his rockets and technology to slow him down and work on China, who doesn't want or need a war either, to leash this guy.
Just keep messing with his rockets and technology to slow him down and work on China, who doesn't want or need a war either, to leash this guy.
10
The frightening concept that this could be the Cuban missile crisis redux is made more frightening by the fact that JFK was a well-read and intellectually curious leader who sought advice from all of his close advisers while the current president has none of those attributes. DJT is everything JFK was not, and situations where decisions could lead to war, whether nuclear or not, are not good places to begin to learn about geopolitical realities.
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Oh, you mean like all the best and brightest JFK was consulting when he launched the Bay of Pigs invasion or escalated the number of "advisors" being sent to Viet Nam? Those guys?
"The Missiles of October" accurately portrayed JFK lacked all these calming influences and rational advice before the crisis. It was only afterwards (WWIII averted) that he took steps to make sure he never relied on a closed system for guidance again. And he was helped during the crisis by Nikita Khrushchev, who negotiated the pullback of US missiles from Turkey as a quid pro quo concession for his own Soviet military cabal.
It is doubtful Trump's advisors (Nikki, Jared, Ivanka, Steve, Sean, Kelly Anne, etc.) have even heard of the Cuban missile crisis, let alone understand its relevance to the current situation. The junior super heroes in 1600 Sesame Street can't hold a candle to RFK or the rest of the Kennedy advisors.
It is doubtful Trump's advisors (Nikki, Jared, Ivanka, Steve, Sean, Kelly Anne, etc.) have even heard of the Cuban missile crisis, let alone understand its relevance to the current situation. The junior super heroes in 1600 Sesame Street can't hold a candle to RFK or the rest of the Kennedy advisors.
1
Very well stated. We are being led by an ignorant and vicious man who is totally clueless about history and military issues.
In the 1960's, there were missiles being placed at our doorstep. It's not quite the same level of threat here with North Korea. Yet I fear that puffed out chests, egos, and a potential "wag the dog" scenario might make a huge and unnecessary mess. There are several ways to fix the situation without people dying. Let's hope that cool heads exist and prevail.
6
North Korea's race to get the biggest weapons of destruction and the means to deliver them anywhere in the world will not go away on its own.
Like Hitler, their goals are often stated. They want to hold the entire world hostage to their insane dictatorship and war plans.
They are quite willing to sacrifice their own people to hurt us.
They do not need ICBMs for defense. But they are developing them to attack other continents such as North America.
North Korea has a very long history of criminal and warlike activity, none of it defensive.
They must be stopped. If they get further in development the costs of stopping them will be much higher.
With each passing day they grow stronger and more bellicose.
Now is the time. We must not delay the inevitable any longer.
Like Hitler, their goals are often stated. They want to hold the entire world hostage to their insane dictatorship and war plans.
They are quite willing to sacrifice their own people to hurt us.
They do not need ICBMs for defense. But they are developing them to attack other continents such as North America.
North Korea has a very long history of criminal and warlike activity, none of it defensive.
They must be stopped. If they get further in development the costs of stopping them will be much higher.
With each passing day they grow stronger and more bellicose.
Now is the time. We must not delay the inevitable any longer.
15
It is good and well to say they must be stopped, and they should, but you fail to articulate how. I'm eager to hear how you envision this seemingly doable task so we can all just go ahead and do the stopping.
9
Like Hitler, their goals are often stated. They want to hold the entire world hostage to their insane dictatorship and war plans.
Or like Djt he wants to hold the whole world hostage to his insane ego and incompetence.
Or like Djt he wants to hold the whole world hostage to his insane ego and incompetence.
5
Actually, N Korea sees an ability to launch long range nukes as defensive. It is called a deterent. I'm not saying they are rational, I'm just saying you are wrong.
Stop with the Hitler comparisons. For goodness sake, this one isn't even close.
Besides the stated desire to take S Korea, there is no evidence of "war plans". N. Korea hasn't made a significant offensive move since the early 50s.
Stop with the Hitler comparisons. For goodness sake, this one isn't even close.
Besides the stated desire to take S Korea, there is no evidence of "war plans". N. Korea hasn't made a significant offensive move since the early 50s.
For 70 years we've been at war (hot or cold) with North Korea. For most of that time we were only risking the lives of our soldiers over there. But that has changed and we have to do something definitive before we totally lose control of the situation. Any comparison to the Cuban Missile Crisis breaks down when you consider the irrationality factor. No one in the case of Cuba was acting irrationally. In the case of North Korea we're dealing with a country that's been drinking Kool Aid for generations. This is not a case where we're dealing with someone else's problem. This is our problem now.
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Martin, from what I’ve read, Fidel Castro encouraged the Soviets to plunge into nuclear war. Psychopaths oft do risk their way into power, where their irrational drives and lack of empathy cause disaster.
Congress has set a dangerous precedent by letting Trump attack Syria without Congressional approval in defiance of our laws. Evil will triumph where good men do nothing.
Congress has set a dangerous precedent by letting Trump attack Syria without Congressional approval in defiance of our laws. Evil will triumph where good men do nothing.
2
Re: Cuba " No one was acting irrationally" , How about Fidel who installed Russian missiles ( with atomic option) aimed at US" ?
2
"In the case of North Korea we're dealing with a country that's been drinking Kool Aid for generations."
And we are dealing with a Commander in Chief who probably thinks this is all a reality TV show and doesn't seem to understand that WWIII wouldn't ultimately be good for his ratings because most of the viewers would be dead.
And we are dealing with a Commander in Chief who probably thinks this is all a reality TV show and doesn't seem to understand that WWIII wouldn't ultimately be good for his ratings because most of the viewers would be dead.
2
Two men, Jong-un and Trump, with gargantuan egos and almost no perspective. I think that's a dictionary definition for a grave and present danger.
172
This will escalate in ways the world isn't prepared for. We need China, South Korea, Japan and Russia all on the same page so any military action taken isn't misunderstood. Communicate, communicate, communicate..
445
'China, South Korea, Japan and Russia all on the same page'
Good luck with that!
Good luck with that!
4
The International Mafia, aka The Top 1% Global Financial Elite Robber Baron/ Radical Religion Good Old Boys' Party/ Corporate Cabal wants WW3.
This is what unprecedented wealth inequality - manipulated by the "market' Robber Barons - causes.
This is how civilized world order is destroyed. Again. Welcome to the 21st century - just like the 15th century if WE let it happen. Turn off Game of Thrones. Turn off fox so-called news. Think.
This is what unprecedented wealth inequality - manipulated by the "market' Robber Barons - causes.
This is how civilized world order is destroyed. Again. Welcome to the 21st century - just like the 15th century if WE let it happen. Turn off Game of Thrones. Turn off fox so-called news. Think.
3
dt does not know or understand diplomacy
2
A Japanese news source is reporting that China approached Russia last week about working together to reign in BOTH the U.S. and North Korea. China and Russia have now sent ships in behind the U.S. "aramada" to monitor its activities. Is this what "winning" looks like?
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It worked for Baby Doc of Haiti, and a few others:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/05/world/gallery/fallen-dictators/