If you are waiting for answers to all of the puzzles and mysteries this show explores, you're missing the point.
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"What makes “The Leftovers” such an exciting and challenging show is that it understands why some people need to find meaning in the coincidence and confusion that is everyday life — and why other people resent that effort"
Loved this sentence except for one thing: The "need to" is judgmental; why add it? Some people find meaning in chaos and some don't. The "need to" is derogatory, implying that belief is a weakness. The show is agnostic, respecting both sides.
Loved this sentence except for one thing: The "need to" is judgmental; why add it? Some people find meaning in chaos and some don't. The "need to" is derogatory, implying that belief is a weakness. The show is agnostic, respecting both sides.
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Anyone have thoughts about Kevin and Nora's address - 420 - and perhaps a biblical reference? It was visible in the scene with Kevin leaving the house after the asphyxiation.
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Where you see a possible biblical reference, I see a possible weed reference.
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First, let me say thank you to all of you who took the time to make comments and attempt to answer the many questions raised by this series. It's nice to know other folks are as intrigued as I am about this. However, I'd like to know if anyone is annoyed by the many questions without answers that the show presents. After Season Three's first episode, I wrote to my sister and said, "If this show doesn't start making sense, I'm not watching it anymore." I probably won't do that, but are there others who sympathize?
No, I'm used to it.
I'm surprised no students of history recognized that the "band of pilgrims" were Millerites during the Second Great Awakening. The incident was the Great Disappointment of 1844. Millerites were hi-tech for their time and used the printing press to spread their message and carrier pidgins to communicate. Millerism has several decedents, most notably 7th Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses and Branch Dravidians.
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Any guesses on Nora's broken arm? I might have missed if it was discussed in the episode.
No explanations yet (if ever...) about her wearing a cast OR the missing adopted daughter, Lily. Stay tuned....
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Didn't she break it on purpose, season 2?
I thought the white birds were possibly carrier pigeons carrying messages from somewhere? There's a brief shot of a bunch of little paper slips during that sequence.
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Not that Wiki is the best source, but a) Tommy was 2 years old when Kevin met Laurie, Kevin could have actually adopted Tommy. b) the missing (from mention) now 3+ year Baby was "Lilly". I did a Wiki and went to HBO-on-demand. But Thx to you other Comment(ers). You helped me narrow my search
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a) Kevin clearly says in the episode, while he's telling the story of how he and Laurie met... "and that's when we adopted you" to Tommy.
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Kevin's daughter did ask him if Nora "talks about Lily", but there was no mention of what happened to her.
All the beards!
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I think several comments above are correct about Kevin's asphyxiations taking him back to the hotel. When I first watched the scene, I felt that his approach to the closet and selection of clothing from the rack was very similar to what occurred last season when he awoke in the hotel. I think a faint musical motif from last season may have been used--I'll
have to re-watch it to see!
have to re-watch it to see!
5
it was the same music
With The Leftovers headed to Australia for the ending, I hope proper respect and some homage is shown for Nevil Shute's On the Beach, and Peter Weir's The Last Wave. Just saying.
7
Great references that are going to make me see this wonderful series in a whole new light. Thank you.
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interesting that the church in australia has 'sister mary mackillop anglican church' painted on it. mackillop was a catholic nun, and is now australia's first saint. therefore, it's unlikely a protestant church would be named after her. so, make of that what you will.
Couldn't help but think Nora's denial that the name Kevin had any meaning to her was a lot like Peter's denial of Jesus....hmmm....
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Sorry, but Laurie and John aren't swindling. She is offering remote therapy using John as her vehicle. They shred the money. This is an important detail.
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Speaking of "adopting", what happened to that [Black] Baby that Kevin and Nora encountered in S1:E10? The Baby was in various Episodes in S2. I know that S3 is now three years after S2, but did I miss any sighting/mention of the Baby in S3:E1? Like I mentioned in a previous post, this show is convoluted
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There was a brief mention of it by Kevin to his daughter before she got in the car.
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The comment was that Nora was not yet ready to talk about it. I'm wondering if there was a bicycle or car accident in which the child was killed, and Nora got that cast on her arm.
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Her name is Lily and as noted below, it was mentioned briefly. I assume something happened to her that wasn't good. Possibly involving Erika, who according to IMDb does appear in this series, perhaps briefly.
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Glad to have the show back! Many dark passages for viewers to follow down this first episode. The reappearance of Dean and the whole "dog men" elements has me scratching my head and wondering if this is going to be a real component or just another one of the crazy things that happens in Jarden.
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Replacing the haunting classical riff with gospel music isn't cutting it for me.
Season 1 was delightfully agnostic.
Season 2 was ploddingly Mainstream Christianity.
This Season, so far, feels rankly fundamentalist.
... say it ain't so.....
Season 1 was delightfully agnostic.
Season 2 was ploddingly Mainstream Christianity.
This Season, so far, feels rankly fundamentalist.
... say it ain't so.....
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The season two theme "Let the Mystery Be" is the epitome of agnosticism. We haven't heard the theme for season three yet. I don't believe "I Wish We'd All Been Ready" is it, but it was an inspired choice for the cold opening flashback, demonstrating the stark contrast between the fundamentalist's view of what divides us, and the reality of just how divisive and destructive their faith can be.
4
Kevin adopted Tommy. Tommy is not his stepson and has not been labeled as such on the show. Tommy is his son. Regardless of his divorce from his first wife Kevin is still legally Tommy's father.
12
Correct!
3
Good point. The fact that this story is brought up in this episode, as if to remind the audience that Tommy is not his biological son, makes me wonder if that will be relevant somehow in the story -- for example if Kevin's role as someone who can be resurrected might be passed on to only his biological daughter.
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Correct! Also wanted to point out that Laurie and John are married, not just dating, judging by Tommy's comments before blowing out his birthday cake candles. Paraphrasing: "Don't wish for a larger family since everyone seems to be marrying each other", and "Always wanted a little brother", gesturing towards John's son Michael, presumably his now step-brother.
3
The book of Kevin will catch on. He will be too famous for Texas, and will move far away, to Australia. Years pass, Kevin will become the new Jesus (killed, rises from the dead) and Nora has to hide out from his followers. The messages on the doves are spreading the gospel, she doesn't want anyone in her hideout to know about it.
That's my prediction.
That's my prediction.
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Thanks
I like it. Good theory!
Please explain to me again why LEFTOVERS gets a detailed dissection every week while the beautifully written, feelingly acted, thematically rich GRIMM went through its entire run with the Times barely acknowledging its existence?
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The NYT also failed to cover the exquisite Rectify - and now it's too late.
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I'm a fan of both shows (just watched the finale of Grimm the other day) and while I agree that Grimm is one of the better genre shows on network TV in recent years, it really doesn't have the same depth, quality and craft that The Leftovers has routinely given us during its first two seasons.
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Rectify, Hell on Wheels, Turn, Justified...
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Regarding the birds in both the frontier prologue and the flashforward: We see both the pastor and Sarah remove rolled-up messages from the legs of the birds; Sarah drops a tiny scroll into a bucket half-full of them.
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The birds are carrier pigeons. They "work" because they have an intuitive geographical knowledge of their "home" so they can be taken many miles away and will always return to the same place, a skill that was used in he past to deliver messages (before phones etc).
In the prologue, they seem to be receiving messages via the birds that other friends or believers are still around, so "the end" has not yet come, it's not that they were left behind (hence their look of relief and changing of the apocalypse date). It's unclear at the end, with Nora/Sarah if these birds are being used for messages again because there aren't other forms of communication, or as a sort of hobby as many people use them today.
There are also obviously allusions to the Bible, when on the Ark, Noah realizes they are near land because a dove with leaves in its beak are seen.
In the prologue, they seem to be receiving messages via the birds that other friends or believers are still around, so "the end" has not yet come, it's not that they were left behind (hence their look of relief and changing of the apocalypse date). It's unclear at the end, with Nora/Sarah if these birds are being used for messages again because there aren't other forms of communication, or as a sort of hobby as many people use them today.
There are also obviously allusions to the Bible, when on the Ark, Noah realizes they are near land because a dove with leaves in its beak are seen.
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Did anyone notice the name on the Anglican Church at the end? It was a female saint... I was wondering if it was a "real" saint or perhaps it might have been the "true believer" woman from the prologue who is inspiring this new generation of true believers in the future and who have decided she is a saint.
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Thank you NYTimes & Author for this article about "The Leftovers S3:E1" I loved S1 but luke-warm about S2. The show w/ it's use of Flashbacks/Dream-Sequences can become quite convoluted. This article explained certain aspects of the show/characters that I suspected but could not confirm. As if Anything could be confirmed on a TV Show like this one. The Author of this article doesn't have to worry about adding Spoilers. The show is so complicated that we (viewers) won't know a Spoiler even it hit us in the face. I will look forward every Monday AM for more articles like this one
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Totally bizarre and compelling, as usual.
3
I agree that Kevin is killing himself and returning to the hotel. The episode in Season 2 when Kevin was taking little Patty to the well I think was way important. The English man on the bridge told him "this is the most real thing happening" and we still don't know what he whispered to Kevin. He was also the one who showed Kevin how to return home; but also remember how cynical he was. If Kevin is a "Jesus" figure (aka good); is the English guy an anti-Christ (evil)? Does Kevin end up sacrificing himself for the good of what is left of mankind thereby abandoning Nora? Is that why Nora as an old woman is left empty & sad & denies knowing him? I love the journey of this show. I agree with Brandon that the writers hopefully don't do with Leftovers what they did with "Lost".
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He's not an "English Guy" he's an Australian guy. (actually the actor is American but he is doing an Austrailan accent)
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Sorry about that. I stand corrected. And it actually makes more sense given that Leftovers is Australian bound.
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I think Kevin already realized what Matt said, which is that he can't die (at least in Jarden/Miracle) and maybe elsewhere. So he tries to kill himself over and over.
4
Lindleof better wrap it up right. The reason, I suspect, that "few" people watch this show is because there are MANY LOST fans out there who were VERY disappointed with his finale and general wind-down of the show. This is the last chance that me and several of my friends are givin him.
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Count me as one of them. I'm waiting to see how he ends this thing before I decide to binge or not to binge....
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This show is almost impossible to binge on. It's way too involving and demanding emotionally. I wanted to binge a rewatch but couldn't do more than 2 episodes at a time. And I have a feeling that if one were to watch while doing something else, the essence of the show itself would be lost and it wouldn't seem as good or engaging. Try it out, it's well worth the time and effort!
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Well, I for one loved the ending of Lost -- I was not disappointed one iota. But I do worry with only 7 episodes left, this may be a difficult one to wrap up. What a ride.
4
I'm going to need a re-watch but a few things stood out:
* The Laura/John con hearkens back to the "who wants a hug" Laura/Tommy con. Tommy couldn't stand it but I think Laura, being a psychiatrist, understands how deeply people's desires for finality and answers can screw them up. Giving them some, even if fake, is doing good. This show has seriously changed my stance on cons.
* My immediate thought when Kevin asphyxiated himself was that he was returning to the hotel, intended to do so, and this isn't the first time he's done it. But why?? It was also funny when Kevin says to Laurie that he's better now, and she agrees, just a minute after she says that you never tell a person who is delusional that they are delusional.
* Is it possible that Kevin is a leading a double life in the "other life"? The timing here may not work out because he doesn't lose any time and immediately leaves for work whereas when he died and Michael buried him, he rose days later (I think?). The fact that he told Tommy he killed someone and all of her bodyguards (and we see a flashback to Patti) as if it happened in this life may mean he's blurring realities somehow now...
* I worry Mary WILL become comatose if she leaves!!
* I'm guessing there's a baby on the way for Kevin and Nora based on all the gooey eyes over Noah...that can't go well given Lily, with one L.
I can't believe there's only 7 more episodes. I'm already missing this show.
* The Laura/John con hearkens back to the "who wants a hug" Laura/Tommy con. Tommy couldn't stand it but I think Laura, being a psychiatrist, understands how deeply people's desires for finality and answers can screw them up. Giving them some, even if fake, is doing good. This show has seriously changed my stance on cons.
* My immediate thought when Kevin asphyxiated himself was that he was returning to the hotel, intended to do so, and this isn't the first time he's done it. But why?? It was also funny when Kevin says to Laurie that he's better now, and she agrees, just a minute after she says that you never tell a person who is delusional that they are delusional.
* Is it possible that Kevin is a leading a double life in the "other life"? The timing here may not work out because he doesn't lose any time and immediately leaves for work whereas when he died and Michael buried him, he rose days later (I think?). The fact that he told Tommy he killed someone and all of her bodyguards (and we see a flashback to Patti) as if it happened in this life may mean he's blurring realities somehow now...
* I worry Mary WILL become comatose if she leaves!!
* I'm guessing there's a baby on the way for Kevin and Nora based on all the gooey eyes over Noah...that can't go well given Lily, with one L.
I can't believe there's only 7 more episodes. I'm already missing this show.
22
Excellent comment, the bit you mentioned about Laurie telling Kevin that you don't call psychotic a psychotic person, made me reconsider that sequence. :)
3
Imagine having on demand access to your own personal holodeck...
So yeah, not really surprising if he wants to spend more time there, though having to kill yourself to get there is certainly enough to give one pause for thought.
So yeah, not really surprising if he wants to spend more time there, though having to kill yourself to get there is certainly enough to give one pause for thought.
I was thinking about the hotel also, when he opened up the wardrobe and his uniform and shirts were the same as they were in the hotel. It's interesting that Kevin falls asleep and instantly wakes up someplace else. And I know he was doing that in the other episode when he would wake up and go kill dogs and guilty remnants. Did Kevin always have those tattoos on his back?