In a nutshell, Christians like "others" be they gay, black, Hispanic or Muslim as long as they "know their place" and submit to THE FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST, who are the only repositories of TRUTH.
"I love my gay neighbors as long as they recognize that they're third class citizens and that god will punish them in hell" isn't good enough for me. Being nice to someone as long as they remain in their place is evil. It can't be sugar coated. Those nice southern ladies don't gossip, they merely say to their friends, "we must pray for Mabel's drinking problem", with a nod and a knowing look. I prefer a good, honest gossip to a good Christian any day.
"I love my gay neighbors as long as they recognize that they're third class citizens and that god will punish them in hell" isn't good enough for me. Being nice to someone as long as they remain in their place is evil. It can't be sugar coated. Those nice southern ladies don't gossip, they merely say to their friends, "we must pray for Mabel's drinking problem", with a nod and a knowing look. I prefer a good, honest gossip to a good Christian any day.
154
I'm encouraged when I see that religious thought and organized religious participation is declining. It's all such nonsense. Religion is an escape, a sad crutch for people who need to believe in Santa Claus for the rest of their life. Grow up, Christians and others. Realize that you are embarrassing yourselves.
190
They are going to get exactly what they deserve and I have no sympathy for them. Any working class person that votes Republican is a self-deluded fool. If social issues are that important to you, then you'll live with the consequences. The Republican party counts on your ignorance and fear, they take it for granted.
Take a good hard look at the man you voted for and name one Christian value he even believes in, let alone practices. I'm waiting....
Then look in the mirror.
Take a good hard look at the man you voted for and name one Christian value he even believes in, let alone practices. I'm waiting....
Then look in the mirror.
490
So-called Christians, as they exist in the intellectual wasteland of modern-day America, bear no resemblance to Christ's apostles, or any of the early followers of this subversive movement. Christ was murdered because he presented a threat to the status quo--the Pharisees. He openly promulgated treating lepers, prostitutes, criminals, and yes, even politicians, as equals in the eyes of "God", thus directly challenging the comfort of those who benefited most from their ostracism.
Early Christianity was a peaceful organization, dedicated to humanity and good works, its symbols the lamb and the dove. Not until the Emporer Constantine turned it into a death cult in the fourth century did crucifixion gain its current prominence. He convened the Council of Nicaea, which, among other things, cobbled together a collection of scribblings circulating throughout the ancient world into a compendium which came to be known as the Bible, leaving out the most popular of all of them--the Gospel of Mary Magdalene--instead changing her from Jesus' closest confidant and yes, wife, into a prostitute. This reflected the profound jealosy exhibited by Peter especially, but other apostles as well, toward Mary Magdalene for her closeness to Jesus.
Today's "Christians", southern or not, are almost universally unaware of these simple facts, and therein lies the problem us non-religious folk have with Bible-thumpers--their slavish embrace of deliberate ignorance. Politicians love that.
Early Christianity was a peaceful organization, dedicated to humanity and good works, its symbols the lamb and the dove. Not until the Emporer Constantine turned it into a death cult in the fourth century did crucifixion gain its current prominence. He convened the Council of Nicaea, which, among other things, cobbled together a collection of scribblings circulating throughout the ancient world into a compendium which came to be known as the Bible, leaving out the most popular of all of them--the Gospel of Mary Magdalene--instead changing her from Jesus' closest confidant and yes, wife, into a prostitute. This reflected the profound jealosy exhibited by Peter especially, but other apostles as well, toward Mary Magdalene for her closeness to Jesus.
Today's "Christians", southern or not, are almost universally unaware of these simple facts, and therein lies the problem us non-religious folk have with Bible-thumpers--their slavish embrace of deliberate ignorance. Politicians love that.
361
When I was twelve, 1963, I went to the Wednesday business meeting of my Southern Baptist church. The subject was how to react if blacks came to our small Oklahoma village and wanted in the Church, a common civil rights movement practice at that time. Now never mind this would only have been a test and no blacks would come there regular ( our village was white-white and nine miles away from the city), never mind this is a CHURCH. They voted to not let them in. I never went back. So, yes , I practice Christianity to my fellow man; but no, I don't go to the church. I understand Margaret, she's correct. The ones who will suffer the most will be the poor and ignorant, many of them voted for Trump, vote for the so-called Republicans. My prayer is for the south to evolve.
224
You have beautifully articulated the religious, cultural, sociological divide that is present in our country. I am not sure about your "Christian nation" comment at the end of your essay. Most religious tenets hold the same beliefs. As soon as we label any set of beliefs with religious tags, we are excluding people. We need a leader who can pull us together based on our common beliefs. I think that is what you are saying. Thank you for helping us think!!
83
If Christian means the United States of a post-trump Mike Pence administration then...god helps us women..On second thought, we women have to help ourselves.
Be careful what you wish for.
Be careful what you wish for.
71
The Republicans use the Abortion issue to win Christians over to support Anti Christian leaders like Trump and Pence. These people care nothing for the baby once it is born. They will cut food programs for children. Get rid of healthcare. To use Christian terminology 'It is the work of the Devil'.
285
"By any conceivable definition, the sitting president of the United States is the utter antithesis of Christian values — a misogynist who disdains refugees, persecutes immigrants, condones torture and is energetically working to dismantle the safety net that protects our most vulnerable neighbors."
Uhhhh, I believe you failed to mention he makes fun of the disabled as well.
Meanwhile, concerning "[b]ut reasonable people can disagree on the moment when human life begins . . .", I think the real question is, when does somebody become a "person." That is, was Red Greene a "person" when he was a 3-month-old fetus in his mother's womb? For that matter, was he a "person" at any time before exiting the womb?
Uhhhh, I believe you failed to mention he makes fun of the disabled as well.
Meanwhile, concerning "[b]ut reasonable people can disagree on the moment when human life begins . . .", I think the real question is, when does somebody become a "person." That is, was Red Greene a "person" when he was a 3-month-old fetus in his mother's womb? For that matter, was he a "person" at any time before exiting the womb?
47
20
Anything can be supported by some passage or other in the Bible. If I were a Christian and/or communist, I would use
Acts 2:44-45 : "" And all that believed were together, and had all things common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.""... "Each according to his needs" is exactly how communism was presented by Marx and Engels.
Acts 2:44-45 : "" And all that believed were together, and had all things common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.""... "Each according to his needs" is exactly how communism was presented by Marx and Engels.
69
I'd be more forgiving if they embraced the New Testament instead of cherry picking the Old Testament for their hate du jour.
149
By all indications, they DID put Putin in the White House.
129
Hypocrisy is still hypocrisy and those who tolerate it are also hypocrites. They can call themselves Christians, but they are not. As for the South, the plantation society and the plantation mentality is alive and thriving, as it has been for over three hundred years. Lincoln's greatest mistake was that he didn't let the South go.
114
I feel for the Christians in our country, where pastors lead their flocks to smite nearly everything Christ ever said. Hey, I am not judging people or their religion. It's, "sad." Their faith is being used against them by the very people who were meant to guide them. If, you doubt me, then why have the Republicans been able to embarrass and compromise them and their supposed goodness so successfully? Hmm?
35
This article is about 50 lbs of tripe. The forefathers of today's hypocritical southern Christians supported and own slaves. After the civil war they condoned the KKK and abetted white terrorism against black people. Looked at the lynching of black people as a family entertainment event. These same southern Christians spit on and verbally abused children trying to enter the public school systems. These southern Christians sat on juries and exonerated murders of black people knowing the accused committed the crime.
Today these pro life Christians are one issue voters but don't want to be taxed to support these children's education housing or health care. These people have always been full of tripe
Today these pro life Christians are one issue voters but don't want to be taxed to support these children's education housing or health care. These people have always been full of tripe
254
The author could have been describing the rural Trump voters of my state. It's okay for them to benefit from federal programs like the agricultural welfare programs because they are deserving (and white).
174
Science, reason, common sense and observation necessitate a conclusion that no supernatural beings exist. I'm a secular humanist doing a couple of really good things. I had a poem published, title was DEATH. The poem was an empty column, no words. My greatest wish is that religion disappears. It's the only way to reach equality of all human beings and an understanding of where the planet is headed.
52
Southern hospitality? As long as you're just passing through. And Ms Renkl, there is nothing special about the way the South responds to disasters. That is common across all humanity. Sorry, but the self identified conservative Christians are very un-Christ like and have been since, well Christ was crucified.
171
I live in Texas, and I was once at an artisan craft show. One of the booths displayed little signs with sayings that you could purchase for your home. One said, "Love your enemies, but keep your guns oiled." That says it all.
83
There's a conundrum in that teaching to Love others as Ourselves: If we do not love ourselves first, there is no loving others. And that may be the key to your distress. with your One Plank Christians. PS: I had no idea Christianity had Planks.
27
"obdurate enough to be insensible to a reproving conscience." Frederick Douglass 1845 Southern christianity is a religion of slavery. A religion that is merely a gloss to the ideology of white supremacy.
98
Old Southern Proverb:
Stupid is as Stupid does.
Forrest Gump
Stupid is as Stupid does.
Forrest Gump
79
I guess that for a supreme con man, the easiest people to con are members of a tribe that marches in lock-step and seems unable to think as individuals, believing instead in fairly simple Manichean dogmas, and easily made fearful of "the other". Dare I say that it is a match made in Heaven.
110
Excellent article- we need to be pragmatic and look into our priorities. Food, education job, health care are most important. Let us stop the wedge between us vs them. I do support abortion. But time has come for us to understand the reality and move on.
When our democratic leaders will wake up?
When our democratic leaders will wake up?
9
I grew up Catholic and liberal in the South and I'm sure you already know, Ms. Renkl, that the overwhelming majority your evangelical Protestant neighbors don't regard you as a fellow "Christian." To them, you are a non-believer.
As laughable as that notion is in theological and historical context, it's nonetheless true in their "universe." Evangelical Protestant Christianity in the South has little to do with Christian theology. It centers primarily on the defense and continuation of Southern social mores such as complete deference to the upper class and grateful, humble acceptance for whatever your betters are willing to allow you in terms of making a living. In return they acknowledge your status as a white citizen and police the boundaries and proper social and economic placement of women and non-whites for your benefit. Expecting as a Catholic to connect with these people through a shared religious faith and tradition is virtually hopeless.
As laughable as that notion is in theological and historical context, it's nonetheless true in their "universe." Evangelical Protestant Christianity in the South has little to do with Christian theology. It centers primarily on the defense and continuation of Southern social mores such as complete deference to the upper class and grateful, humble acceptance for whatever your betters are willing to allow you in terms of making a living. In return they acknowledge your status as a white citizen and police the boundaries and proper social and economic placement of women and non-whites for your benefit. Expecting as a Catholic to connect with these people through a shared religious faith and tradition is virtually hopeless.
144
Bigotry and homophobia are NOT political differences; they are character deficiencies, no matter what religion someone claims to "practice".
Those Trump voters who voted for him and will be the victims of his capricious policies? THEY REAP WHAT THEY SOW.
Those Trump voters who voted for him and will be the victims of his capricious policies? THEY REAP WHAT THEY SOW.
77
"my husband’s aunt used to refer to us as “cafeteria Catholics,” picking and choosing what we believe."
Sounds like you should listen to your aunt more often. She certainly makes better points than you did in this op-ed.
Sounds like you should listen to your aunt more often. She certainly makes better points than you did in this op-ed.
21
It is a wonder to watch christians twist themselves around as they try to make what they have done somehow OK because they are a certain kind of christians other than the ones who have done it. Please take a look into the mirror of christianity and be honest when you confront the truth about your collective belief system which is not worth the paper you print it on. Belief systems are not real and it is long past time for us humans to live the reality of life grounded on Earth.
39
Religion wasn't meant to be talked about, but practiced, so I don't know why we do so much. Easier, probably. Or maybe too many nosy people who don't understand and too lazy to find out for themselves. Either will never get it.
16
I am an American and NOT a.c. Christian. I never want to see this country become a Christian nation. It is a nation of laws, not theocracy. That is clearly what the founders of the American Republic wanted. I'd the Southvwants a Christian Nation, I suggest that the attempted divorce of 150 years ago came too early, and now is the time for it. Let the South become the Christian Iran and become an independent theocratic country, with all of its poverty, ill-health, bigotry and ignorance all proudly claimed unto itself. I would say good riddence.
111
One argument for the existence of a benevolent deity is the observable fact that humans are good and ethical, and that despite our tribe or our religion, our ethics are quite similar. As an atheist, I see this argument as proof, if nothing else, that the ethics of Christianity are flawed. A religion which allows slavery, denies happiness for gay folks, and subjects half the population into virtual slavery to be of questionable veracity, on these facts alone. The "cafeteria catholic" who finds his or her way to a good and moral existence, despite the dangerous amoral tenets of the church, is demonstrable proof, to me, that people are good.
We need more good people to vote their conscience, not their ideology. We need them to be good, despite their religion.
We need more good people to vote their conscience, not their ideology. We need them to be good, despite their religion.
35
I have seen the damage of Christian belief: the harder Christians hold onto biblical literalism, the more contrarian to mainstream society they become.
If I told my grandmother I wasn't a Christian, she would think I am going to burn in hell (for eternity)!
There is a background of terror inherent in accepting these beliefs that Christians need to examine if they are interested in becoming more open, tolerant individuals.
If I told my grandmother I wasn't a Christian, she would think I am going to burn in hell (for eternity)!
There is a background of terror inherent in accepting these beliefs that Christians need to examine if they are interested in becoming more open, tolerant individuals.
29
I don't see how what's being planned in DC will hit the author's fellow Southerners harder. If Southerners (OR Northerners) didn't use logic when voting, how can they be expected to use it when assessing the election's consequences? They will surely rationalize it in a way I cannot understand. And they will continue to drag us all down this dark fearful tunnel.
46
The southern states, despite decades of generally upward economic development, lag the nation in almost every important measure of the quality of life: education, availability of health care, income, protections from predatory lending, seizure of houses by foreclosure without judicial review, life expectancy, imposition of the death penalty and the creation of damaging arrest records for minor offenses. Almost 50% of southerners have poor credit ratings with at least one debt collection action on credit reports. In this situation, abortion is the number one issue deciding whom Christians will support for president? Gimme a break.
Christianity is the primary religion across the old southern states. Yet, the south almost always favors military action, death through war or wars, when the option arises. Could it be there is a fundamental, unacknowledged conflict between Christianity as it is generally understood and the outlook of southerners toward these and other issues? Is Christianity essentially being bent, throwing off inconvenient commandments and the examples from Jesus' life and teachings?
I have heard more than one Christian say that Trump is being used by god and that god can use all kinds of people. How would they know this? It seems they think they have solved the inherent mysteries of faith and Biblical teachings and reduced it to one issue and one only, abortion. Or, could it be they are betraying their religion to fit whatever they and their tribe want anyway?
Christianity is the primary religion across the old southern states. Yet, the south almost always favors military action, death through war or wars, when the option arises. Could it be there is a fundamental, unacknowledged conflict between Christianity as it is generally understood and the outlook of southerners toward these and other issues? Is Christianity essentially being bent, throwing off inconvenient commandments and the examples from Jesus' life and teachings?
I have heard more than one Christian say that Trump is being used by god and that god can use all kinds of people. How would they know this? It seems they think they have solved the inherent mysteries of faith and Biblical teachings and reduced it to one issue and one only, abortion. Or, could it be they are betraying their religion to fit whatever they and their tribe want anyway?
102
For liberals the State is their god.
Christians make a distinction Caesar and God.
Christians make a distinction Caesar and God.
9
I trust the writer for her genuine faith. She hasn't mentioned (openly) that the real target was a _religious_ minority, the Muslims, together with a secondary target of "visible people." Let's be clear, pro-Christian in Donald's world means anti-Muslim. The first "Christian" to welcome The Bloviator was that fellow who runs the Jerry Fallwell 'university'. His display of what the school calls "Faith-based Education" was to point to his foot where his firearm was located, proclaiming how proud he was to lead his chapter of the NRA. Faith-based education means having faith in your concealed weapon and being educated in your Open one. With faith like that, you don't have to go to church.
24
I realize there is only so much room to print things in a paper. That being said I think this article could have benefitted from showing Christians in southern states that vote Republican but are members of liberal wings of the party. Or old Republican people in southern states that embrace people different from them but are still Republican.
6
When your prayers are for a man who sends bombs, but rejects the refugees he claims to be protecting, its time to look inside and ask yourself "To what god am I actually praying?"
64
Separation of church and state! Immediately! Most atrocities in the world are based on religion (war, pedophilia in the Catholic Church, still condoned and covered up, killing abortion doctors, and on and on) money, and oil. Talk about hypocrisy. The pope may be preaching benevolence, but until he really and COMPLETELY stamps out church sanctioned pedophilia in the ranks, he's a hypocrite too. The world would actually be such a better place with less religion and more empathy, compassion, support for human rights and dignity, taking care of our earth and fellow animals and other earth dwellers and butting out of other people's bedrooms and beliefs!!! Take away the tax exemption in the US and see how many so called religions fold. I am sick of the hatred and the conversion preached from so many pulpits. Humanists unite!
38
I congratulate Ms. Renkl for her well-written piece. I agree with almost every point she makes. The great majority of policies advanced by Democrats aligns much more closely with the faith tenets of Christians than do Republican policies. Because I admire her piece so much, I am all the more disappointed to learn that she is pro-abortion. Like Ms. Renkl I am a cradle Catholic, but one who refuses to be a one-plank voter (and who also has no problem whatever with non-abortive artificial birth control). Although I consider myself an independent, I haven’t voted for a Republican presidential candidate since Abu Ghraib. In defense of her support of abortion, Ms. Renkl writes: “But reasonable people can disagree on the moment when human life begins.” The scientific fact is that humans, like all mammals, are born alive. Disagreement on precisely when—-prior to birth—-human life begins may not in fact be reasonable, logical, scientific. If anything, it’s emotional.
14
"Watching Christians put him in the White House has completely broken my heart."
Watching so-called Christians elect Trump has forever hardened my heart about anything having to do with so-called Christianity. You can all go burn in hell for all I'm concerned. Religion is nothing but a cover for greed. If Jesus came back to earth tomorrow, he'd puke over what has been done in his name.
I was born Catholic and it has been a life-long struggle to regain mental clarity after nearly two decades of brain washing in guilt-wrapped make-believe. At least I escaped being sexually abused, unlike many others.
Trump's election finalized it for me: Christianity is evil, no better than any of the other religions - all a 'divine' excuse to kill others and still act "holier than thou."
Go back under some rock and leave the rest of us alone!
Watching so-called Christians elect Trump has forever hardened my heart about anything having to do with so-called Christianity. You can all go burn in hell for all I'm concerned. Religion is nothing but a cover for greed. If Jesus came back to earth tomorrow, he'd puke over what has been done in his name.
I was born Catholic and it has been a life-long struggle to regain mental clarity after nearly two decades of brain washing in guilt-wrapped make-believe. At least I escaped being sexually abused, unlike many others.
Trump's election finalized it for me: Christianity is evil, no better than any of the other religions - all a 'divine' excuse to kill others and still act "holier than thou."
Go back under some rock and leave the rest of us alone!
82
I shudder at the thought of a so-called "Christian" nation. Feeding the hungry, sheltering the homeless, welcoming the stranger, taking care of the elderly and the children, all of this and more, are things that aren't just Christian. They're also Jewish and Muslim and polytheistic and atheistic things. Civilized people do these things. Moral and ethical people do these things. Human beings, and even non-human beings, do these things. Early homo sapiens and Neanderthals did these things. Ancient Sumerians and Egyptians did these things. We were doing these things hundreds of thousands of years before anyone wrote the Torah, the New Testament or the Koran. These concepts are not just "Christian." Tribalism aside, they're what sentient beings do and have always done when there are enough resources to go around.
75
"You can love a human being and still fear the group that person belongs to."
Intended by the writer or not, that phrase is euphemism for "Love the sinner, hate the sin" and THAT phrase was what Bible-thumpers especially Catholic ones always used to say about gay people. So it's not just people with darker skin have reason to fear those who "fear" them.
Intended by the writer or not, that phrase is euphemism for "Love the sinner, hate the sin" and THAT phrase was what Bible-thumpers especially Catholic ones always used to say about gay people. So it's not just people with darker skin have reason to fear those who "fear" them.
18
When you have a religious cult at the helm that believes in a White Male God (how convenient!), this is the what you get - McConnell, Trump, Hatch et al. ,all twisting themselves around the cross. (the boddhisatva Christ is roling over in his Sepulchre.)
Those good 'ole boys ain't letting go without a big fight, and bringing everybody else down with them.) Resist.
Those good 'ole boys ain't letting go without a big fight, and bringing everybody else down with them.) Resist.
60
Well spoken, Margaret. I was raised Baptist in NC by relatively conservative parents, but somehow turned out liberal agnostic, maybe because my folks, bless them, never discouraged my questioning of our political and religious tribe. I have two friends that are southern liberal clergy, and they keep me aware of the aspects of Christianity that I can still embrace. Although it looks bleak now, I agree with you, and hope down the road us secular liberals and more conservative folks (whose good qualities can be hard for us libs to see and acknowledge) can find common ground, helping the least among us.
28
It's pretty obvious that Trump is not a believer. His love of money, his dishonesty, his lack of concern for the poor, well, it is not what Jesus was about. But it shouldn't be a surprise that conservative Christians support him, The have shown cognitive dissonance for a long time: today famous preachers scam their flocks for millions and fly in private jets, but further back you have to look at southern life during the era of slavery. How did white people survive in a system in which they treated others as property and tormented them and still manage to convince themselves they were Christians? They perverted the doctrine and twisted their beliefs to fit their circumstances.
73
The Republican party is starting to show it's real priorities in Washington, big business, less taxes, and more for the rich. But if it had just professed it's true goals it could never come to power.
So they picked on a few hot button issues that got a sizeable portion of Americans riled up to recruit them. One of these issues is the Abortion or Right to Life issue. That sure got the devout Christians on board.
I don't think the wealthy Republicans care if abortion is legal or not because, with enough money it can be done no matter where you live. The trouble is most are not in that position.
The damage that can be done by one party, either Democratic or in this case Republican, having all of the power with no intention to negotiate is scary. And recruiting voters based on a "party plank" which in reality is self serving to the party's end goals is what we are seeing now in the GOP.
So they picked on a few hot button issues that got a sizeable portion of Americans riled up to recruit them. One of these issues is the Abortion or Right to Life issue. That sure got the devout Christians on board.
I don't think the wealthy Republicans care if abortion is legal or not because, with enough money it can be done no matter where you live. The trouble is most are not in that position.
The damage that can be done by one party, either Democratic or in this case Republican, having all of the power with no intention to negotiate is scary. And recruiting voters based on a "party plank" which in reality is self serving to the party's end goals is what we are seeing now in the GOP.
42
Having lived and worked in the South for several years I have often wondered and pondered about this glaring asymmetry that has troubled Ms. Renkl. Southern Christians comfortably live social honesty and practice blatant political Hypocricy. Their unthinking loyalty to the Republican Party was best in evidence in their support for President Trump. While the contenders and both campaigns polled every conceivable demographic to minutiae, the South was hardly polled. (White) Southern Christians insist that Democrats take African American political support for granted. They do not seem to or want to admit that their relationship to the GOP is not so different either. The landslide support that the Evangelicals gave Mr.Trump makes a total mockery of their religious faith. There is a whole lot more to life than Roe vs Wade and another example of genteel hypocricy .....abortion rates are not necessarily lower in the South. Change will come some day but not anytime soon.
67
The United States was founded on slavery and genocide. The Constitution was written to protect slavery and to cement the profits of ethnic cleaning. Originalists in the courts have blood on their hands (however black they may be). All of this is the horrible consequence of being human. None of it surprises Jesus. In today's America propaganda disseminated by the White House and Fox contests in the heads of the citizenry with facts. Trump, Sessions and Tillerson are prone to kleptocracy. None of that surprises Jesus.
I understand sharing home-cooked meals with the neighbors of whatever color and creed. But then their resume for that job is not read or the apartment is suddenly unavailable or the good school's boundaries somehow excluded the 'others'. None of this is specific to the South and none surprises Jesus.
The one thing separating Trump from Stalin is that in 4 years, Trump will turn over the keys to the White House to the winner of the next election, who will slowly undo, order by order, what Trump hath wrought. And in the meantime, the government and military professionals will block many of Trump's illegal initiatives. The Putsch is not happening here, yet.
We can all strive to meet our own ideals. We can all reach out to our neighbors and truly include the 'others' in our hearts and prayers. We can try to find truths beyond our clan's opinions. We can try to make democracy work. That might surprise Jesus, pleasantly.
I understand sharing home-cooked meals with the neighbors of whatever color and creed. But then their resume for that job is not read or the apartment is suddenly unavailable or the good school's boundaries somehow excluded the 'others'. None of this is specific to the South and none surprises Jesus.
The one thing separating Trump from Stalin is that in 4 years, Trump will turn over the keys to the White House to the winner of the next election, who will slowly undo, order by order, what Trump hath wrought. And in the meantime, the government and military professionals will block many of Trump's illegal initiatives. The Putsch is not happening here, yet.
We can all strive to meet our own ideals. We can all reach out to our neighbors and truly include the 'others' in our hearts and prayers. We can try to find truths beyond our clan's opinions. We can try to make democracy work. That might surprise Jesus, pleasantly.
22
Everything you mention in this article is precisely why I left the Catholic church formally in 2015 and why I will not participate in other Christian denominations and why I will begin participating in a Buddhist practice, much to great peace and relief, this week.
23
Wonderful article ! You really got to the heart of it.
11
So long as Trump can point them to a "real" enemy, his followers will never grasp the damage he's causing.
26
As ye sow, so shall you reap.
24
They DID put Putin in the whitehouse to further their agenda.
30
If Trump were somehow to suddenly not be the President any longer then Pense would be President. If Pense suddenly disappeared then Paul Ryan would be President. Things would not be any different. As a matter of fact, if there were someone in that chair who understood how government works they would be worst.
I personally blame every single person who voted Republican for what the USA has become and what it is becoming. They deserve what they are going to get from creating this monster without a soul or heart. They can try all they want to excuse themselves because they voted for what ever reason but the reason really is Selfishness, Bigotry, Hate, Envy, and Anger. If I could see where this was going when W Bush was elected then there is no reason anyone else couldn't have also seen this. If I can read history books and determine that everything that is lasting bad in the USA has happened at the hands of Republican so can anyone else.
The USA is lost because those who choose to vote Republican do so because they lack empathy, compassion, humility, morality, and justice. Now they are about to learn what their form of justice is because They Wanted It To Be The Law Of The Land. One thing for sure, if Christ does return he will not have his shining city on any hill in the USA.
I personally blame every single person who voted Republican for what the USA has become and what it is becoming. They deserve what they are going to get from creating this monster without a soul or heart. They can try all they want to excuse themselves because they voted for what ever reason but the reason really is Selfishness, Bigotry, Hate, Envy, and Anger. If I could see where this was going when W Bush was elected then there is no reason anyone else couldn't have also seen this. If I can read history books and determine that everything that is lasting bad in the USA has happened at the hands of Republican so can anyone else.
The USA is lost because those who choose to vote Republican do so because they lack empathy, compassion, humility, morality, and justice. Now they are about to learn what their form of justice is because They Wanted It To Be The Law Of The Land. One thing for sure, if Christ does return he will not have his shining city on any hill in the USA.
76
" Our famed Southern hospitality is just an illustration of Jesus’ exhortation to welcome the stranger."
And what is the Bible's position on slavery?
And what is the Bible's position on slavery?
19
As a secular liberal, I do not, and likely never will, know much about any of these Bible characters. So, from the get-go, I was completely unable to suss the premise of the 1st paragraph. You might say what an uneducated heathen. Well, I make my living in science, and am well-versed in literature, music and mathematics...just not interested in religion. And in a country that advertises the separation of church and state, that should be just fine! I suppose if I were to write something that presumed your knowledge of biochemistry, many would be similarly lost!
16
As a secular liberal... I think you may perhaps may want to rethink your opinions on this.
It is "fine" if you want to ignore the basics of the world's religions. But it's ignorance all the same. Just because I'm not a biologist doesn't mean I shouldn't need to know the basics of healthy eating; just because I'm not an accountant doesn't mean it wouldn't be beneficial for me to know a little about how my taxes work.
I feel like atheists, especially those who were brought up with religion (myself included), can feel 'burned' by religion. From that standpoint, it's easy to focus on all the negative things that religion can cause.
But it's worth looking at the positives as well. Religion can bring to those who practice a sense of community and purpose. Religion can foster charity and goodwill; it can provide comfort and familiarity to the grieving and afflicted.
I'm not saying that religion exclusively provides these things. But if you brush off religion as something you have a Constitutional right to not know anything about, you're alienating yourself from a huge portion of the population, and limiting your understanding of human behavior and community.
Religion's been a part of the human psyche for at least most of our existence as a species. I believe that makes it an important topic of study for everyone (especially us atheists!), so we can empathize with and understand each other better.
It is "fine" if you want to ignore the basics of the world's religions. But it's ignorance all the same. Just because I'm not a biologist doesn't mean I shouldn't need to know the basics of healthy eating; just because I'm not an accountant doesn't mean it wouldn't be beneficial for me to know a little about how my taxes work.
I feel like atheists, especially those who were brought up with religion (myself included), can feel 'burned' by religion. From that standpoint, it's easy to focus on all the negative things that religion can cause.
But it's worth looking at the positives as well. Religion can bring to those who practice a sense of community and purpose. Religion can foster charity and goodwill; it can provide comfort and familiarity to the grieving and afflicted.
I'm not saying that religion exclusively provides these things. But if you brush off religion as something you have a Constitutional right to not know anything about, you're alienating yourself from a huge portion of the population, and limiting your understanding of human behavior and community.
Religion's been a part of the human psyche for at least most of our existence as a species. I believe that makes it an important topic of study for everyone (especially us atheists!), so we can empathize with and understand each other better.
12
BCY123: here's the problem with your willful ignorance of one of the major if not The major piece of literature in western civilization. You are not all that "educated" as you claim if you do not know the history of the ideas you read about in those preferred texts of yours. Reading Biblical literature is not the same as "believing", as I am sure you understand. Those "Bible characters" are part of our common heritage. And, that would include Greek and Roman religions, as well as Islam and religions of South Asia.
9
Author forgot the other christian value that T does not have: respect for women. Being a misogynist is not the same as a sexual predator.
15
I harbor this hope that someday soon a leader will come along who will blur the definitions of Dem and Repub, left and right, by choosing to do the right or wise thing, regardless of party platform. I am a Democrat, but I don't agree with everything the Democrats seem to do. I'll bet a jagged path could be found that would include a majority of the voters, if only someone would try.
7
Calling yourself a "believer" simply shows a fundamental lack of human insight
8
"Jesus said, 'Truly, I tell you, whatever you did for the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.' All the rest is window dressing"
Trump says that making America great again requires us to kill the families of suspected terrorists we are unable to capture.
I say that all the rest of what Trump says and does is window dressing.
Trump says that making America great again requires us to kill the families of suspected terrorists we are unable to capture.
I say that all the rest of what Trump says and does is window dressing.
8
Ms. Renkl, you have beautifully articulated my own feelings. I can only say thank you for the word of hope at the end of this essay, blessings to you, and a very happy Easter.
8
The thrust of the piece seems to be that the good Christians of the South were hoodwinked by the Trump campaign. Please! This was not a sudden event. It is where these good Christians have been since LBJ got passage of the Civil Rights Act.
47
One thing that mystifies me about catholics in America.....
If a catholic "protests" some edict or rule of the catholic church....why dont they ever join a "protestant" church??
They seem to be fearful of a break from the most STATE of all "state religions".
Rome....a state. Catholic....a religion.......do I really need to connect ALL the dots for you folks???
Roman Catholics have chosen the leadership of Europe for a long time.
Then along came the Anglican(church of England)....which is in effect nothing more than the state religion of England...to this day. Of course, being English, the english ran around forming any number of other reformed systems of worship,,,,,and soon found themselves deported. Puritans, Quakers, Presbyterians, etc, etc,,,,,,,,,
The Puritans attempted to found a state religion in Massachuesetts and soon found it impractical for wilderness society. Down the road, in Rhode Island, Roger Williams created the Baptist Church.
Soon enough, Connecticut invented the Country Club and Congregational Churches.
Meanwhile in Virginia....founded as a Corporation....attempted to import the Church of England...but similar to the puritans, discovered it was impractical to controlling the wilderness mob populating the colony....eventually to the point of modifying the Anglican Church into the Episcopalian Church and interlocking banking directorates. A similar corporate interest prevented NY from ever imposing State Religion...the Dutch West Indies, LLC.
If a catholic "protests" some edict or rule of the catholic church....why dont they ever join a "protestant" church??
They seem to be fearful of a break from the most STATE of all "state religions".
Rome....a state. Catholic....a religion.......do I really need to connect ALL the dots for you folks???
Roman Catholics have chosen the leadership of Europe for a long time.
Then along came the Anglican(church of England)....which is in effect nothing more than the state religion of England...to this day. Of course, being English, the english ran around forming any number of other reformed systems of worship,,,,,and soon found themselves deported. Puritans, Quakers, Presbyterians, etc, etc,,,,,,,,,
The Puritans attempted to found a state religion in Massachuesetts and soon found it impractical for wilderness society. Down the road, in Rhode Island, Roger Williams created the Baptist Church.
Soon enough, Connecticut invented the Country Club and Congregational Churches.
Meanwhile in Virginia....founded as a Corporation....attempted to import the Church of England...but similar to the puritans, discovered it was impractical to controlling the wilderness mob populating the colony....eventually to the point of modifying the Anglican Church into the Episcopalian Church and interlocking banking directorates. A similar corporate interest prevented NY from ever imposing State Religion...the Dutch West Indies, LLC.
4
These people you speak of in this article are racist, first and foremost. All "religions" are debased in that they are anthropocentric. These organized religions are in direct conflict with our current scientific knowledge and any possibility that the human species will survive the planet bringing itself back into equilibrium will require a complete shedding of such ignorance.
21
I am the child of a religiously mixed family that was tolerant of all religions but critical of any group that interjected its beliefs into politics. I cringe when I hear a politician describe the United States as a "Christian" nation because that characterization fails to include all of us; indeed, if we are to live up to the aspiration of "e pluribus unum" we absolutely must separate church from state.
58
There is nothing to add! Perfectly stated. Bravo!!
10
Betrayal? Mr. Trump was as unfettered by the truth, philosophical underpinnings, and moral direction as a candidate as he is a president. His egomania, indiscretion, and lack of respect for people was well known prior to his candidacy. The blind led the willfully blind and unseeing voters got what they chose and what they deserve. The rest of us got what the blind chose and now suffer from the tyranny of the majority.
35
"What you do the for the least of you, you do for me"
Perhaps the biggest shock of this election was to see so many Christian leaders and their followers flock toward Trump. In the immortal words of former Mayor Bloomberg at the Democratic convention; I am a New Yorker, and I know a con man when I see one. Trump is a man who comes from a world of wealth and pleasure. He worships one and practices the other. To him losers are people who are not huge financial successes, i.e.. the millions of people who put him in office. For those Christians who cast their vote for him, Trump's entry through the golden gate are nil. Judas betrayed Christ. Trump will betray them.
Perhaps the biggest shock of this election was to see so many Christian leaders and their followers flock toward Trump. In the immortal words of former Mayor Bloomberg at the Democratic convention; I am a New Yorker, and I know a con man when I see one. Trump is a man who comes from a world of wealth and pleasure. He worships one and practices the other. To him losers are people who are not huge financial successes, i.e.. the millions of people who put him in office. For those Christians who cast their vote for him, Trump's entry through the golden gate are nil. Judas betrayed Christ. Trump will betray them.
39
@Babel
I agree with you. But, to play a bit of devil's advocate, was that really a 'shock'? I mean, once you've convinced the faithful of their stealth reinterpretation of the Bible into a kind of 'Capitalist-christianity', or less charitably, 'Christian-Darwinism', it shouldn't be a shock at all. Precisely because they've been led to believe that the best thing you can do for 'the poors' is to a) assume a moral failing, and b) minister to that failing, rather than risk one's own material well-being (and thereby question one's faith in reaping the 'rewards' promised by this new brand of Christianity) do they so willingly follow an empty prophet like our Page Six President.
These Christians (not all Christians) may not realize it, but they've long ago replaced a message of forgiveness and "God's will on Earth" with an ego-centric certitude about the uncertainties and pain in life that allow them to believe they're doing Good Things for others with no real sacrifice other than the time it takes to pray for 'those people'.
Couple that together with an ethnic twist of 'white protection' and you start heading into an area addressed 80 years ago by Dieter Bonhoeffer, who tried to get his German compatriots to wake up and realize that an exclusive Christianity - of any kind - was no Christianity at all. That there's a difference between using Christianity, or any religion, as a shield, and using it as a beacon in the darkness...as Jesus and the apostles meant it to be.
I agree with you. But, to play a bit of devil's advocate, was that really a 'shock'? I mean, once you've convinced the faithful of their stealth reinterpretation of the Bible into a kind of 'Capitalist-christianity', or less charitably, 'Christian-Darwinism', it shouldn't be a shock at all. Precisely because they've been led to believe that the best thing you can do for 'the poors' is to a) assume a moral failing, and b) minister to that failing, rather than risk one's own material well-being (and thereby question one's faith in reaping the 'rewards' promised by this new brand of Christianity) do they so willingly follow an empty prophet like our Page Six President.
These Christians (not all Christians) may not realize it, but they've long ago replaced a message of forgiveness and "God's will on Earth" with an ego-centric certitude about the uncertainties and pain in life that allow them to believe they're doing Good Things for others with no real sacrifice other than the time it takes to pray for 'those people'.
Couple that together with an ethnic twist of 'white protection' and you start heading into an area addressed 80 years ago by Dieter Bonhoeffer, who tried to get his German compatriots to wake up and realize that an exclusive Christianity - of any kind - was no Christianity at all. That there's a difference between using Christianity, or any religion, as a shield, and using it as a beacon in the darkness...as Jesus and the apostles meant it to be.
10
The GOP's success at hawking the Alternative Fact that Jesus is a Republican is nevertheless a heresy. That believers believe their lie is beside the point. Christ himself saved his wrath for the "white-washed sepulchers":the Pharisees, the hypocrites who patted themselves on the back while hating the poor.
Our election of a molester and fraud is there for those "with eyes to see". At least acknowledge the difference between cultural and political habits and the actual teachings of the Gospel.
Our election of a molester and fraud is there for those "with eyes to see". At least acknowledge the difference between cultural and political habits and the actual teachings of the Gospel.
25
The title of the article should have been, "The Passion of White Ultra Right Religious Southerns." As for "Christians"........that depends on ones definition of Christian. If you are a minority, gay, believe in other than "give me that old time religion" philosophy or just don't think and act like them, their acts of human kindness and alleged Christian values don't go very far. Having lived in the old South for 40 of my 75 years I can speak from experience. Can I get an Amen brother Donnie!
21
When did I hit the roof? When Mr. Groome labeled his essay with the title of 'The Abortion Party' where he is referring to the Democrats. This is not appropriate, or Christian-like for any political party. It did not help when later I was asked for my religion when going to a clinic for a standard test. 'Uh, I was brought up in the Catholic faith', as my voice trailed off, the receptionist looked abashed, and into the computer this information was logged.
Did you ask why, an American Jewish friend wanted to know. No, I was so taken aback and in more than sixty years, no one has approached me on this personal topic, not even the greatest 'Christian' I have ever known.
A kind neighbor. a Lutheran who has a bible-reading group over once a week told me recently 'I voted for Trump but I could not have done otherwise' with lowered eyes. Did I ask her why? No, because it is none of my business.
Working in the Humanitarian Community, we do not take action based on our religious beliefs. When an African friend and colleague past fifty told me she was applying for an assignment in the Sudan a few years ago, a devout Muslim, and I protested, she told me 'I am African'.
A decade ago, it was a Jewish friend who walked through a blizzard and brought me home after a medical procedure. Flowers were sent by a Muslim friend and they were a source of comfort and joy.
'Christian Pride' will be our downfall.
Did you ask why, an American Jewish friend wanted to know. No, I was so taken aback and in more than sixty years, no one has approached me on this personal topic, not even the greatest 'Christian' I have ever known.
A kind neighbor. a Lutheran who has a bible-reading group over once a week told me recently 'I voted for Trump but I could not have done otherwise' with lowered eyes. Did I ask her why? No, because it is none of my business.
Working in the Humanitarian Community, we do not take action based on our religious beliefs. When an African friend and colleague past fifty told me she was applying for an assignment in the Sudan a few years ago, a devout Muslim, and I protested, she told me 'I am African'.
A decade ago, it was a Jewish friend who walked through a blizzard and brought me home after a medical procedure. Flowers were sent by a Muslim friend and they were a source of comfort and joy.
'Christian Pride' will be our downfall.
11
I've noted that many religious people are willing to make donations and work for the poor or help those who have suffered calamities, but they also like to keep them at arm's length. For example, they'll send missions off to Haiti to do good works and enjoy the beaches, but the objects of their charity would be looked upon with horror if they moved in next door. A surprising number of families in my area have an adopted Chinese daughter, but shun local children who need homes. Charities can be big money-makers for the organizers, and have the added value of making people feel righteous and a bit superior.
As a gay man once told me right here in Tennessee, religious fundamentalists see themselves as good people, but they really aren't.
As a gay man once told me right here in Tennessee, religious fundamentalists see themselves as good people, but they really aren't.
22
Donald's lying is practically legendary, his serial molestation of women, well very serial. His utter lack of class, not to mention his utter childishness are the "secondary" traits. We've long known what the so-called Christian right wing stood for. Donald just exemplifies the traits even more.
19
Here's the root cause for Ms. Renkl's confusion about religion in America.
She's catholic.
She either fails to recognize or refuses to reconnize that the United States is the one and only "Protestant" nation on Planet Earth, in the history of mankind, ever.
And by "protestant", I mean "free thought", I mean "freedom of expression", I mean UN-orthodox.
Its the protestants that founded institutions like Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Dartmouth and hundreds of other colleges and universities across the nation.....as did the Catholics, except that the Catholic institutions remain fervently 'catholic" while the others have turned over guidance to non-sectarian leadership.
It was "protestants" that created the Chattauqua movements....promoting both religion and new ideas....now only practiced in the so-called "rural south" as the "camp meeting".
Falwell became upset with the disintegration of American Society and formed the "moral majority"...despite running counter to a core "protestant" attitude of separating religion from politics......Falwell's "fundamentalist" movement was quickly commandeered by the age old Catholic "evangelical" movement........think about it.
Westboro Baptist rails against the war and homosexuality.......yet virtually no aboriton clinic was ever blown up by a protestant.....we almost always discover the culprit is an evangelical catholic.
She's catholic.
She either fails to recognize or refuses to reconnize that the United States is the one and only "Protestant" nation on Planet Earth, in the history of mankind, ever.
And by "protestant", I mean "free thought", I mean "freedom of expression", I mean UN-orthodox.
Its the protestants that founded institutions like Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Dartmouth and hundreds of other colleges and universities across the nation.....as did the Catholics, except that the Catholic institutions remain fervently 'catholic" while the others have turned over guidance to non-sectarian leadership.
It was "protestants" that created the Chattauqua movements....promoting both religion and new ideas....now only practiced in the so-called "rural south" as the "camp meeting".
Falwell became upset with the disintegration of American Society and formed the "moral majority"...despite running counter to a core "protestant" attitude of separating religion from politics......Falwell's "fundamentalist" movement was quickly commandeered by the age old Catholic "evangelical" movement........think about it.
Westboro Baptist rails against the war and homosexuality.......yet virtually no aboriton clinic was ever blown up by a protestant.....we almost always discover the culprit is an evangelical catholic.
6
To quote the bumper sticker: The Moral Majority is neither.
12
OK, I'm a northern unchurched liberal, but I have been made deeply cynical about the "christian right" by their support of Trump ... far more so than ever in the past.
There's an old saying that is apposite here: "You don't need to tell me you are a Christian; let me figure it out for myself."
And I largely have. There are many courageous principled Christians who have stood up for Christ's words and the clear lessons of the bible, but the great majority have followed false leaders down the path of hypocrisy and lust for power.
Honest Christians take the parable of the good Samaritan to heart. (And no, I do not accept Augustine's "allegorical" interpretation -- and surely no one who takes the bible literally could possibly do so.) One should also remember the old-testament selection of Gideon's Army. Nowhere in the bible do you ever find any miracle worked through an evil man.
Unmentioned here is that Trump is a cruel and selfish man, a groper and a defrauder, a man who routinely cheated ordinary working people and small businessmen out of their earnings. Worse yet, his intent is great evil -- robbing from the poor to give to the rich.
Why cannot Christians find a decent person, perhaps even a person one can admire, to carry their message? Why a man so foul as Trump?
There's an old saying that is apposite here: "You don't need to tell me you are a Christian; let me figure it out for myself."
And I largely have. There are many courageous principled Christians who have stood up for Christ's words and the clear lessons of the bible, but the great majority have followed false leaders down the path of hypocrisy and lust for power.
Honest Christians take the parable of the good Samaritan to heart. (And no, I do not accept Augustine's "allegorical" interpretation -- and surely no one who takes the bible literally could possibly do so.) One should also remember the old-testament selection of Gideon's Army. Nowhere in the bible do you ever find any miracle worked through an evil man.
Unmentioned here is that Trump is a cruel and selfish man, a groper and a defrauder, a man who routinely cheated ordinary working people and small businessmen out of their earnings. Worse yet, his intent is great evil -- robbing from the poor to give to the rich.
Why cannot Christians find a decent person, perhaps even a person one can admire, to carry their message? Why a man so foul as Trump?
20
Ms. Renki:
pray tell ...
what is the difference between "your-wish" for a 'christian u.s.a.',
and the wahhabi insistence on sharia law as the law of all lands?
cain and able repeated forever.
surely,
any righteous lord-god-dess,
would provide a way to avoid both.
4
Please explain to your fellow Christian's that the Democrats are not going to force you to have an abortion, they are not going to take away their guns, and are not going to stop you from celebrating Christmas. Until your friends can learn to vote using their intellect instead of their emotions, they are going to suffer. And for your wealthy friends who complain about having to pay taxes to help the lesser among you, there was this guy named Jesus who said "For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required."
25
some writers make no distinction between LEGAL immigrants and those immigrants who have either sneaked into our country or have intentionally overstayed their visa. the latter are in our country in violation of our laws. our legislators make the laws and the executive branch is supposed to enforce those laws. some or many of those persons here in violation of our laws are nice, funny, parents, workers, loving, etc, but they are still here in violation of our laws.
there is a difference in being charitable and helpful IF YOU WANT TO BE and being FORCED to pay taxes and let others decide how to be helpful to others. personally i like to help people with my time and effort(including money) without being able to get a tax deduction. this is my choice. others think differently and that is their choice. so be it.
there is a difference in being charitable and helpful IF YOU WANT TO BE and being FORCED to pay taxes and let others decide how to be helpful to others. personally i like to help people with my time and effort(including money) without being able to get a tax deduction. this is my choice. others think differently and that is their choice. so be it.
1
Why is it acceptable for these southern Christians to kill an intruder in their house but not acceptable for a woman to abort an intruder in her body?
34
Southern Christianity isn't usually Catholicism and for quite a long time, conservative Christianity has dropped any support for the social Gospel. If you read discussions by conservative Catholics, the arguments have become quite similar. I think the author is delusional if she thinks Southern Christians of any stripe support social programs.
7
To simply survive through the millennia, all major religions embody much the same common sense rules for social coexistence: they instill the beliefs of non-violence, truthfulness, respect of the elders, the recognition of rights of others, compassion. Some throw into their mix of commandments gratutious corporate rules: no other Gods, no images, attend all the meetings. But for the most part, all major religions embody sensible prescriptions for a society so as to allow people to enjoy the life we are given. Further, one can surely hold these values without being religious. I am such a one.
So I share your heartbreak as each Trump-day passes and we see ignorance and incompetence being saddled by mean spiritedness and xenophobia. Carelessness and cruelity. We watch the unraveling of the values that make this nation shine.
Jimmy Carter's book entitled "Our Endangered Values" has sadly rung true.
So I share your heartbreak as each Trump-day passes and we see ignorance and incompetence being saddled by mean spiritedness and xenophobia. Carelessness and cruelity. We watch the unraveling of the values that make this nation shine.
Jimmy Carter's book entitled "Our Endangered Values" has sadly rung true.
12
I wish more people of faith would cherish the rights and protections codified in our Constitution and its amendments (especially noting the First Amendment's Establishment Clause). We are a pluralistic nation, each citizen free to worship as they choose, but none given the right to impose their religious views upon others. We are governed by secular laws.
In addition, simply being kind requires no specific doctrine.
In addition, simply being kind requires no specific doctrine.
28
I'll give you some points on your thoughts; I was born and reared in the South as well. BUT, some of these 'Southern Christians' are hate-filled bullies who see a President get away with the behavior they yearn to exhibit. ...bullying, intimidation, sexual demands of unwilling women, pride, 'I'm the big man" and all the rest. This has nothing to do with religious belief and everything to do with dominance and 'white' exceptionalism. And I, personally, didn't see much of the neighborly behavior you list - not in South Carolina, Georgia, or Tennessee.
The most tragic result of the recent election is that the world now knows the value many Americans place in such hateful behavior and the southern voters' admiration for it. (I refuse to agree that they are Christians. They exhibit none of Christ's empathy or love.) Perhaps all of us children of immigrants from the 1700s should leave and give this country back to the true Americans-- the North American Indians.
The most tragic result of the recent election is that the world now knows the value many Americans place in such hateful behavior and the southern voters' admiration for it. (I refuse to agree that they are Christians. They exhibit none of Christ's empathy or love.) Perhaps all of us children of immigrants from the 1700s should leave and give this country back to the true Americans-- the North American Indians.
48
I would be more impressed by an article about Southern Atheists.
6
The path out of the political and moral challenges now assailing your nation will lay in embracing the humanity that is the balm in troubled times and the inspiration to reach the answers to those troubled times. This basic humanity which is the core of any spirituality that resides in all of us (even atheists) can be and must be the glue that holds us all together. Blind adherence to a faith without practicing the humanity that all faiths admonish the faithful to do brings us to the world we inhabit today. We must embrace our own spirituality and accept others as long as that they do not oppress and marginalize others in promoting their own.
8
Once abortion is made illegal the next target of the Christian right will be contraception (IUD's, the pill, condoms, etc). Instead of abortion clinics and abortion doctors under attack, pharmacies, pharmaceutical companies, and pharmacists will be under attack. Once abortion and contraception are outlawed Southern Christians will want to bring back the sodomy laws that make the only lawful act to be the missionary position between a married man and woman (the proper appendage being placed in the appropriate orifice). Interracial and gay marriage will be outlawed. Pedophilia will receive the harshest penalty except for rich and/or powerful white men (and of course men of the cloth----the clergy).
Once we have all that settled Southern right-wing Christians will revisit "the fact" that the Earth is flat and was created 5000 years ago (dinosaurs notwithstanding).
With well over 100 million humans killed in all the wars since 1900 I always find it puzzling as to why Christians are so pre-occupied with the 9 months of life before birth. Once a human is born if it doesnt turn out to be a white Christian they are ready to string it up, torture it, mock it, deport it and kill it. Let's face it everyone loves babies, puppies, kittens and butterflies.
Once we have all that settled Southern right-wing Christians will revisit "the fact" that the Earth is flat and was created 5000 years ago (dinosaurs notwithstanding).
With well over 100 million humans killed in all the wars since 1900 I always find it puzzling as to why Christians are so pre-occupied with the 9 months of life before birth. Once a human is born if it doesnt turn out to be a white Christian they are ready to string it up, torture it, mock it, deport it and kill it. Let's face it everyone loves babies, puppies, kittens and butterflies.
41
And the majority of those deaths were at the hands of men like Hitler, Stalin and Mao who held themselves up as gods.
When you regard an unborn child as a thing you begin sliding down a slippery slope. The elderly. The sick. The weak. Who needs them? By your logic we would be better off if they were gone.
When you regard an unborn child as a thing you begin sliding down a slippery slope. The elderly. The sick. The weak. Who needs them? By your logic we would be better off if they were gone.
6
Will the message from pulpits over the coming week and on Easter be "damn the naysayers" or "we backed the wrong horse"?
6
Nails it - and holds a candle up to daily, utter hypocrisy.
20
Yes a lot of so called Christians voted for trump who as you say is the "antithesis of Christian values". I would go one further and say that it could have been the anti-christ himself who was running for president and the believers would have come running. The "very elite" have fallen.
8
Be careful, Christians, of the legalistic thinking that says, "Real Christians don't vote in x or y way." The fact is, people vote the way they do for many and varied reasons. It's perfectly reasons, religious beliefs aside, for a voter to have reasoned in November 2016, "Overall, I want less government," or "Overall, I want more government," and void accordingly.
1
Religion and politics. Someone has lost her way. If you were a church your tax exempt status should be revoked.
7
White southern christians would have (and did) made a deal with the devil to get the black man out and a white man into the White House.
28
Aren't all US Presidents limited to two terms? Therefore, no one made a "deal" to "get him out".
3
I grew up in the South also. Trump was in many ways a "hail Mary" vote: within a sea of political spinners who were difficult to tell apart (and Ms. Clinton herself sounds of a piece), Trump sounded refreshingly direct. It's not as if any of the other candidates would not have continued much of government policy as in the past. The problem with a desperate action: sometimes it truly is worse than nothing at all. Pinning desperate hopes on a man who is actually the opposite of his personal persona because you like the surface man is dangerous. Mr. Trump is a 6 x's bankrupt, stiffer of subcontractors, ignorant of government, insecure man and a serial liar--and possibly tied by money to a foreign government.
The South may learn that depending on hope and Trump's hype was a terrible choice akin to the saying "cutting off your nose to spite your face."
The South may learn that depending on hope and Trump's hype was a terrible choice akin to the saying "cutting off your nose to spite your face."
16
The day after the election my very Catholic father called me up to gloat about the results. I yelled at him over the phone that as a "Catholic" I had no idea how he could vote for and support a degenerate and think he should be embarrassed about it, not proud. We have not talked about the election since. I honestly cannot understand how anyone of faith could look at that person in the White House and be okay with it. There is nothing about him, nothing at all, that alines itself with "Christianity". It is sickening to watch as know nothing sycophants take over our government, who's only skill is loyalty to a fool. I find it very hard to stomach anyone identifying as religious supporting this man who is the antithesis of religious values.
83
Each time I read or hear that Trump is a great Christian, I shudder to understand that non-Christians condemn will misunderstand and assume that all Christians believe the same as Trump and the Christian Extreme Right. It offends my wife and myself who are believe in the inherent goodness of man combined with man's obligation to minister through silent adherence to the teachings of Christ to all people . Trump, " look up 2 Corinthians " , does not serve as a shining example of Christianity. His bigotry, racist, sexist, and, quite frankly his bizarre behavior, shows explicitly that he absolutely does not understand human compassion and caring for his fellow man. The blind obsession and unwavering support by these alt-right "Christian " followers is impossible for Americans to fathom and, at least to myself and my wife, totally unexcusable .
15
Dear Margaret,
I was born and raised in Beaumont, Texas, which is more southern than Texan.
Your memories of the little church ladies bring a cake to the new gay couple is nice, but you forget to tell about their husbands burning down their house that night. And everyone praying for them on Sunday morning, and saying they got what they deserve over lunch in the church kitchen.
As with all great southerns (and everyone else) you tell half the story. Not half the truth, just half the story.
I was born and raised in Beaumont, Texas, which is more southern than Texan.
Your memories of the little church ladies bring a cake to the new gay couple is nice, but you forget to tell about their husbands burning down their house that night. And everyone praying for them on Sunday morning, and saying they got what they deserve over lunch in the church kitchen.
As with all great southerns (and everyone else) you tell half the story. Not half the truth, just half the story.
38
Cafeteria Catholic? Heck, Jesus was a Cafeteria Jew! He did miracles on the Sabbath, criticized those who prayed or did rituals conspicuously or wanted a stone a woman found in adultery.
It's Sunday and I'm not in Church. But neither am I out castigating my neighbors for mowing lawns or gardening or watching golf.
My view is that the Gospels teach Love. As did Jesus. He taught forgiveness and turning the other cheek. Going the extra mile. And dissuaded his apostles from violence. He fed the hungry and urged us to do likewise. He healed the sick. Even on the Sabbath. He prayed, but often went out to pray in nature - in a lonely place.
I too am sad that many Christians have been seduced into one track voting. Life is precious. No doubt! But so is choice - free will. Free will is upheld in both Testaments.
I'm praying for political paralysis - to keep trump in line.
It's Sunday and I'm not in Church. But neither am I out castigating my neighbors for mowing lawns or gardening or watching golf.
My view is that the Gospels teach Love. As did Jesus. He taught forgiveness and turning the other cheek. Going the extra mile. And dissuaded his apostles from violence. He fed the hungry and urged us to do likewise. He healed the sick. Even on the Sabbath. He prayed, but often went out to pray in nature - in a lonely place.
I too am sad that many Christians have been seduced into one track voting. Life is precious. No doubt! But so is choice - free will. Free will is upheld in both Testaments.
I'm praying for political paralysis - to keep trump in line.
23
Looking around the world, I get the idea that religion works a lot better for people when it has the importance of a hobby in people's lives rather than a matter of life or death.
17
I used to work in Christian music in Nashville until I literally saw the Gospel Music Assn. become the entertainment wing of the Republican Party. This at a time when we had invaded Iraq based on lies about non-existent WMDs and had violated every international standard and Christian principle by using torture and extraordinary rendition. On the state level our "Christian" Republican politicians were advocating cutting food stamps and school lunch programs to the poor. That so-called "Christians" would not just defend such heinous acts but actually call them Christian was disgusting. I haven't stepped foot in a church (or listened to Christian music) in about 10 years. The truth is, Jerry Falwell opened the door to this sad state when he first politicized evangelical Christianity back in the '90s. The surest way to kill a religion is to politicize it.
52
The Southern Baptists were formed to support slavery. There is no disputing that they do some good things, but there is also no disputing that the members are largely racists.
19
A well-written piece. Many times, I love to read opinion pieces in the Times simply for the pleasure of it, regardless of my agreement or disagreement with the author. I wish I could write that well. Thank you, Ms. Renkl.
12
Fundamentalist anything is a recipe for disaster. Judgmental and angry is not a way to spread religion. I've been told by former friends who've 'found jesus' that I have no place in their lives unless I also see the error of my ways and come to the lord; I told them that believing in fairy tales is not going to bring them happiness in the long run. This president they've elected may bring them the Armageddon they so fervently pray for, it's just too bad they'll take the rest of us with them.
20
The author points at the issue yet, like most, refuses to acknowledge the problem: that voters equate their religion with their politics.
Simply, the two do not mix. More importantly, and most often ignored, the Constitution is fairly clear that the two ought not mix. Abortion is actually a wonderful example of where religious belief guides minds rather than reason and rational thought. I know better than to wade into the so very tired arguments, but suffice it to say if a "baby" at 1 month "old" is considered the same as a "baby" 2 weeks prior to birth, well, that is a miracle, at least in thought, because in reality, were one to see the differences not to mention the lack of viability of the 1 month "baby".
Opposing capital punishment? On what grounds? Goes against religious belief to protect society? That's the point of capital punishment, misnomer that it is (it is no punishment; it is protective). And if one opposes killing the murderer, can one support killing those who are merely defending their borders? Doing what their leaders, rightly or wrongly, require them to do? Some hypocrisy there, indeed.
But remove the religious belief, then at least these issues become ones of reason, of law, of what is best for society, not what is best for society based upon belief, belief that is not agreed upon even within the confines of "religion" to begin with.
Separation of church and state. It should be enforced, strongly.
Simply, the two do not mix. More importantly, and most often ignored, the Constitution is fairly clear that the two ought not mix. Abortion is actually a wonderful example of where religious belief guides minds rather than reason and rational thought. I know better than to wade into the so very tired arguments, but suffice it to say if a "baby" at 1 month "old" is considered the same as a "baby" 2 weeks prior to birth, well, that is a miracle, at least in thought, because in reality, were one to see the differences not to mention the lack of viability of the 1 month "baby".
Opposing capital punishment? On what grounds? Goes against religious belief to protect society? That's the point of capital punishment, misnomer that it is (it is no punishment; it is protective). And if one opposes killing the murderer, can one support killing those who are merely defending their borders? Doing what their leaders, rightly or wrongly, require them to do? Some hypocrisy there, indeed.
But remove the religious belief, then at least these issues become ones of reason, of law, of what is best for society, not what is best for society based upon belief, belief that is not agreed upon even within the confines of "religion" to begin with.
Separation of church and state. It should be enforced, strongly.
9
"... To someone who ardently believes abortion is murder, that idea is not as crazy as it seems. ..."
Fair enough. But, to the same people, other forms of 'murder'--namely capital punishment and war--are just hunky-dory.
Fair enough. But, to the same people, other forms of 'murder'--namely capital punishment and war--are just hunky-dory.
19
“Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.” --Jesus
America you've been played!... --God
America you've been played!... --God
2
The church has spent the past 4,000 years in Groundhog Day-like course corrections to massage text and interpretation to suit their aims. Everything's manipulable. It would be the easiest exercise to slide "personhood" up to viability and thus free the world from the impediments of the church. Fat chance.
2
No. Sorry. We do not want a Christian nation. We were founded on the ideal of secularism--a nation where people of all faiths are free to believe as they choose--but not to inflict sectarianism on any of us.
The protection of that secularism has been pretty inconsistent. As an ex-Noo Yawkuh, I grew up when the Blue Laws were still in effect. Thank God we've overturned them.
Southern Christians helped elect someone who is basically a Democrat--as opposed to Her who would have been a continuation of Republican Light. I myself voted for neither of them, as my enlightened state allows me to do.
FYI: A belief in Christ doesn't require you to adhere to any particular dogma. I'm sorry if you're afraid to proclaim your own faith. But that's your problem.
My problem is anyone--even someone claiming to be liberal, as you do--who continues to speak of Christian values as something we should promote as a national ethos. Sorry. Humanism is sufficient as a moral guide for a secular nation. I myself am a person of faith, but that's my private business.
The protection of that secularism has been pretty inconsistent. As an ex-Noo Yawkuh, I grew up when the Blue Laws were still in effect. Thank God we've overturned them.
Southern Christians helped elect someone who is basically a Democrat--as opposed to Her who would have been a continuation of Republican Light. I myself voted for neither of them, as my enlightened state allows me to do.
FYI: A belief in Christ doesn't require you to adhere to any particular dogma. I'm sorry if you're afraid to proclaim your own faith. But that's your problem.
My problem is anyone--even someone claiming to be liberal, as you do--who continues to speak of Christian values as something we should promote as a national ethos. Sorry. Humanism is sufficient as a moral guide for a secular nation. I myself am a person of faith, but that's my private business.
8
BRAVO! Spot on! Separation of church and state is a necessity, not a political idea. While we're at it, start taxing all churches, our infrastructure could use the blessings.
6
Margaret ; Jesus was a Torah observant Jew & believed only in Mosaic law. He was unfriendly to Gentiles as taught by the Torah. Eg.
1/ “You shall drive them out before you. You shall make no covenant with them & their gods. They shall not live in your land. (Exodus 23:31-33).
2/ Jesus insisted that his mission was “solely for the lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matthew 15-4. )
3/ Jesus commanded his disciples to share the good news with none but their fellow Jews: “Go nowhere near the Gentiles & do not enter the city of the Samaritans” (Matthew 10:5-6)
4/ As Jesus said to a non-Jew “Let the children (Jews) be fed first for it is not right to take the children`s bread & throw it to the dogs” (Mark 7:27)
5/ His commands to “turn the other cheek” & “love your enemies” relates strictly to other Torah observant Jews.
His objective of freeing Roman Palestine of the pagans is summed up in Matthew 10:34. Jesus reportedly said “Do not think that I have come to bring peace but the sword.”
Other than predicting that Yahweh was going to come down to earth & establish his (Yahweh`s) kingdom in Jerusalem & free Palestine of the pagans & temple elite during the his lifetime, his understanding of the world was that of a primitive religious zealot of which there were many in that same century. It was Saul/Paul who created the fiction of what Jesus stood for (Judaism lite). The actual followers of Jesus fought Paul`s fiction eg his brother James.
Virgin birth , anyone ???
1/ “You shall drive them out before you. You shall make no covenant with them & their gods. They shall not live in your land. (Exodus 23:31-33).
2/ Jesus insisted that his mission was “solely for the lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matthew 15-4. )
3/ Jesus commanded his disciples to share the good news with none but their fellow Jews: “Go nowhere near the Gentiles & do not enter the city of the Samaritans” (Matthew 10:5-6)
4/ As Jesus said to a non-Jew “Let the children (Jews) be fed first for it is not right to take the children`s bread & throw it to the dogs” (Mark 7:27)
5/ His commands to “turn the other cheek” & “love your enemies” relates strictly to other Torah observant Jews.
His objective of freeing Roman Palestine of the pagans is summed up in Matthew 10:34. Jesus reportedly said “Do not think that I have come to bring peace but the sword.”
Other than predicting that Yahweh was going to come down to earth & establish his (Yahweh`s) kingdom in Jerusalem & free Palestine of the pagans & temple elite during the his lifetime, his understanding of the world was that of a primitive religious zealot of which there were many in that same century. It was Saul/Paul who created the fiction of what Jesus stood for (Judaism lite). The actual followers of Jesus fought Paul`s fiction eg his brother James.
Virgin birth , anyone ???
7
I'll never forget the Sunday after the Malaysian Tsunami; I was visiting my parents and attended church with them (Southern Baptist). Dad had sent $500 to the Red Cross to help, I expected some sort of prayer for the lost and the suffering. We got a 45 minute sermon on planning retirement savings and investments. Any wonder why I was never attracted to "Christianity"?
24
“Christian” truly is "synonymous with angry white voters in red hats, personally responsible for handcuffing all those undocumented mothers and wrenching them out of their sobbing children’s arms".
And hypocrisy.
And narrow mindedness.
And self-righteousness.
And disingenuous cant.
And hate.
And hypocrisy.
And narrow mindedness.
And self-righteousness.
And disingenuous cant.
And hate.
17
As a Christian, I pray for a political party, or at least a candidate or movement, that represents what I and what I understand Margaret Renkal to believe: love your neighbor as yourself -- and who is my neighbor? Those most in need -- the most powerless. The person in the White House today seems to have the opposite of this mentality. Pope Francis was right to question his Christianity, however gently. He's a bully.
12
Glad to read your words, devastated your fellow "Christians" don't seem to understand or care about what they have wrought.
12
I was raised Catholic and can't speak about other Christian faith doctrines. I can't reconcile how Catholicism says that not only is abortion a sin, but so is birth control. And furthermore the single woman who does have a child out of wedlock is a sinner for having pre-marital sex.
And the men? They can spread their seed and wipe their hands of the mess they leave behind in their wake; often times shaming the woman with names like slut and tramp.
And the men? They can spread their seed and wipe their hands of the mess they leave behind in their wake; often times shaming the woman with names like slut and tramp.
16
"I hope we’ll end up with something that looks a lot like a Christian nation." That is exactly what's happening--and why a self-righteous, mentally unstable narcissist and his cronies have been elected to lead the delusional Christian nation. While these people waste their time praying and worshiping a god that does not exist, they ignore reality and transform our world into exactly what their religion teaches them to fear.
10
Lovely. Thanks.
3
I seem to recall that none of the Founding Fathers, with the exception of Washington, were Christians and it is infuriating that the opposite was taught to us by the "religious" right.
10
The biggest danger from from fundamentalist Christians in the Trump era is their brand of biblical-literalist all-out assault on the environment & life on earth.
Red-statists & Scott Pruitt are not basing their de-regulationist, anti-environmentalist dogma on economic or rational reasons.
The anti-environmentalist ferver is based in biblical Dominionism.
Scott Pruitt is a devout Southern Baptist. In 2007, the Southern Baptist Convention in a resolution on global warming declared that Christians should exercise dominion over the Earth, and that the U.S. government should reject mandatory cuts in greenhouse gas emissions.
Dominionism is drawn from biblical literalist interpretation of that line in Genesis which god supposedly gave Adam Dominion over the earth: “Fill the Earth and subdue it,” he supposedly said. “Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
Yale Climate Connections series on religion & climate change explains further:
http://www.yaleclimateconnections.org/2012/03/baptists-and-climate-change/
Red-statists & Scott Pruitt are not basing their de-regulationist, anti-environmentalist dogma on economic or rational reasons.
The anti-environmentalist ferver is based in biblical Dominionism.
Scott Pruitt is a devout Southern Baptist. In 2007, the Southern Baptist Convention in a resolution on global warming declared that Christians should exercise dominion over the Earth, and that the U.S. government should reject mandatory cuts in greenhouse gas emissions.
Dominionism is drawn from biblical literalist interpretation of that line in Genesis which god supposedly gave Adam Dominion over the earth: “Fill the Earth and subdue it,” he supposedly said. “Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
Yale Climate Connections series on religion & climate change explains further:
http://www.yaleclimateconnections.org/2012/03/baptists-and-climate-change/
7
Another statistic in which the Southern states lead that was missed by Ms. Renkl is unwanted pregnancies. How's that "abstinence only" sex ed working out for you?
16
Gotta tell ya,Margaret. Voting for ideas and people who violate your religious beliefs is not only wrong-headed, it is deeply un-Christian. The people we eleect are supposed to be in some way a reflection of what we want to see the government do. Look inside and see if there are not some areas where you could actually advocate for your morals.
3
So let me see if I follow..the hyper religious deep south is really a hypocritical mass of people that constantly contradicts its own beliefs?
15
Bingo!
9
Donny T as Judas – not bad, but not quite spot on, as Donny has never had any faith at all in a superior morality. Judas, for a time, did. And without Judas, we'd have no resurrection or redemption. Without Donny T ... we'll have Pence.
Bit of a pickle, eh what?
Bit of a pickle, eh what?
5
From the very beginning, Southern Baptist churches split off from Baptists in the north because they insisted the Bible supported race-based slavery. It is hard to conceive of a more self-interested and willful misinterpretation of Christ's actual words. From the beginning, Southern Baptists were more interested in contemporaneous political power and not in doing the hard work of following Christ's word and deeds of charity and personal sacrifice. So it comes as no surprise that evangelicals enthusiastically support Trump, a man no more in tune with Christ's teachings than Kim Jung Eun -- they are interested in power, not Jesus.
25
The "passion" of southern christians, like that of christians across the country, is matched only by their collective ignorance, fear and superstition.
17
Our their willing-ness to donate huge sums of time and money to go to the weakest among us......It makes no sense to attack something you don't understand
Renkl, is really talking about white Protestant Christians in the South. I grew up Jewish in the South. The obvious group of "others" were the largely Christian African Americans. They were (are?) at the bottom of the white Protestant order of society.
However, as Ms. Renlk must know, Catholics and Jews, were still second class in the white Protestant majority's eyes, forbidden in certain neighborhoods, clubs and schools. Papists and Hebrews were not equals.
My moment of awakening was as a 9 year old. Returning from the playground at my all white elementary school, many children cheered upon being informed that JFK had been shot. The two groups who stood with downcast eyes and disbelief were the Catholic and Jewish kids. A savage moment that uncovered two truths: that Christianity is not monolithic, and that shared Judeo-Christian values are largely mythical.
I'm pleased that liberal Catholics remain in the South, but don't for a minute think you represent the Christian South.
However, as Ms. Renlk must know, Catholics and Jews, were still second class in the white Protestant majority's eyes, forbidden in certain neighborhoods, clubs and schools. Papists and Hebrews were not equals.
My moment of awakening was as a 9 year old. Returning from the playground at my all white elementary school, many children cheered upon being informed that JFK had been shot. The two groups who stood with downcast eyes and disbelief were the Catholic and Jewish kids. A savage moment that uncovered two truths: that Christianity is not monolithic, and that shared Judeo-Christian values are largely mythical.
I'm pleased that liberal Catholics remain in the South, but don't for a minute think you represent the Christian South.
41
I do not trust Christians, especially those of the American South, to settle for something that looks a lot like a Christian nation — not in doctrine but in practice, caring for the least among us and loving our neighbors as ourselves. Check out 1861 to see what these people are capable of doing to get their very own Christian nation.
12
Can the author explain why the word "hypocrites" doesn't apply to people who act one way to your face and the opposite behind your back? You remember an outpouring of community churches to all in the face of disaster. Maybe so but I remember your esteemed Christian Pat Robertson opining that Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath was punishment for the lascivious lives of those affected. As for the Tallyho Boys -- cute, so long as you ignore the fact that these same children of the god you say you believe in do not share the civil rights you enjoy, and they should not be caricatures of patronizing nicknames. Christians and Republicans all spend far too much time wondering what goes on in other peoples' sex lives.
24
If so-called Christians feel they can impose their moral and ethic beliefs on me disguising them as religious liberty, then I have a right under their same religious liberty to impose on them my moral and ethic beliefs,
10
Liberals already do that. This is why we need to two separate countries. Leftists can have their own side and conservatives and libertarians can have their own.
An article like this brings out all the anti-religious people. This is Palm Sunday, a very important day on the Christian calendar and is showing a disrespect for Christians. How tasteless. Would you treat the Muslims and Jews in the same fashion? Highly unlikely.
3
What the article points out are truths. Whether you have an open mind and can accept them is another story. Truths are truths.
10
Fair enough. But an election brought out all you american fundamentalists. We'll be disrespected for the next 4 years. You have to tolerate today.
Boo hoo.
Boo hoo.
8
Matthew 23:23 ""What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore the more important aspects of the law--justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things."
4
Does anybody care to identify the time the "South" became Republican instead of Democrat? Inn the 1960s. Now, how about the reason?
12
I'll take a WAG: the Civil Rights Act?
What do I win?
What do I win?
8
Balderdash. The last thing this or any country needs is strong ties to any particular religious belief, be it Christian, Muslim, or any other. Religion only works as a force for good when it is divorced from political power. In the modern world Thomas Hobbes first recognized this almost 400 years ago. The harm that religion can and often does inflict on humanity is directly tied to its influence in governance. From the Crusades, to the Spanish Inquisition and Torquemada, the Reformation and Europe's 30 years war...to the participation of the Spanish Catholic priests in the slaughter of Republicans in the recent Spanish civil war. "Lifting our hearts to God", said a telegram of congratulations to Franco from Pope Pius X11, "we give sincere thanks with your Excellency for the victory of Catholic Spain." For those who want to reach an informed opinion on this subject read, as a starter, "The Stillborn God:Religion, Politics and the Modern West" by Mark Lilla. It will help the reader of Op-Ed pieces get a mooring on this subject in our current post-factual world.
9
It seems to me that most of the religious Republicans there in America are religious for one reason: By professing faith in God, it gives them the impunity to sin like the devil and then get a "moral mulligan" by admitting they are sinners after the fact. This then allows them to go back for another round of anti-Christian acts. Just look at what Republicans do to people who are less fortunate than them: deny health care for all, get rid of meals on wheels, pollute your air and water, etc, etc.. Despite this they profess themselves to be a pious as Pence....a randy wolf in sheep's clothing.
22
I won't argue with you that some people in their faith are hypocrites, it's been that way since the beginning of religion. To say that all are wolves in sheep's clothing is to miss the forest for the trees however. Please look at the good the churches do for the poor not what we only see in media. What they want you to believe is that 'all Christians are against Non-Christians' which is so far from the truth. Politics works through healthy debate and so what if out leaders lead by their faith if it gets out of hand they can be checked.
Let them turn bread into body and wine into blood and they'll all wind up dead.
5
The term "home boy" is a Southern expression and that describes a multitude of Americans. Adults who are thinly educated, never travel and are gullible tend to vote against their own best interests. It really has nothing to do with their religion. A more diverse education for children would be a good start. It is no coincidence that Republican voting Southern states are poor educators of their children.
10
Today is the final day of the 40 days for life campaign which has been held throughout the country and around the world. This is a pro-life group consisting of men and women of all ages and from all backgrounds and socio economic levels. They quietly pray in front of Planned Parenthood facilities and do not have any verbal contact with the patients. They have been approached by pro abortion folks who shout and scream insults. We have been instructed to not fight back but instead offer our prayers.
This group promotes life and have changed the minds of countless women who have decided to have their babies. It does not just stop there. After the woman gives birth, they assist mother and child in a variety of ways and never desert them. We have many good people taking part and they demonstrate what Christiianity is all about. They never preach but show love and compassionate to those who need are in need of a friend. We are always there to assist them. I have never met such fine and wonderful people as these volunteers.
This group promotes life and have changed the minds of countless women who have decided to have their babies. It does not just stop there. After the woman gives birth, they assist mother and child in a variety of ways and never desert them. We have many good people taking part and they demonstrate what Christiianity is all about. They never preach but show love and compassionate to those who need are in need of a friend. We are always there to assist them. I have never met such fine and wonderful people as these volunteers.
2
I want to correct the following sentence as it should read "They never preach but show love and compassion to those who are in need of a friend."
But, it's OK to murder doctors who perform abortions.
9
Maybe your holy group should adopt some kids in foster care. Better karma. For you and for the kids that are here. They get totally shafted by Republican policies.They could use all the help your holy group can apparently give.
10
"I like your Christ, but not your Christians. They are so unlike!"
-Mahatma Gandhi
-Mahatma Gandhi
663
I grew up in Alabama. I'm not bemused by the strange contrast between taking a gay couple a pound cake and voting to annul his marriage. I'm not prepared to tut tut over all these people voting to take away their own health insurance. I am not distanced, not indulgent, and not forgiving. They voted to deny gays goods and services, and the equal protection of the laws, to protect cops who shoot unarmed black people. They voted to give the Presidency to a man who would give Lincoln the willies. Nobody forced them to, and I have no sympathy for them, none. Not now. This wasn't like throwing your vote away on George Wallace or Strom Thurmond. This had consequences for ALL of us, and I am more worried about the rest of us, and the welfare of the innocents, than I am about the perps.
741
I am not Christian. I am Jewish by heritage. I am also a life-long atheist. Yet, I very much share the values Margaret Renkl talks about & her bible teaches. I once taught Comparative Religions at a major college & what I got out of the course is that every religion has at the base of its morality a version of the Golden Rule; "Do unto others as you would have done unto you." We can debate whether this arose from revealed truth or as an evolutionary adaptation allowing people to live together in units larger than a hunter-gatherer family. A non-believer once told a Rabbi he would become pious if the Rabbi could explain the entire Torah while standing on one leg. The Rabbi lifted one leg and repeated the Golden Rule, adding. "All else is just commentary."
Today's Christians are very different than the original "Jewish Christians" of Jesus's time. Where they believed that following Him was all about emulating his behavior & his advice, today Christianity is about worshiping him & seeking salvation by accepting him as their savior. Jesus spoke about succoring the meek & poor. But many of today's Christians ignore this, & are concerned only about homosexuality & abortion (which was allowed by the Church up to 16 & 1/2 weeks until Pius IX changed it in 1869). Too many of today's Christians, I observe, want both the Crown of Thorns & the 30 pieces of Silver. They elected a sinning heretic only in hopes of having Iron Age sexual taboos, LGBT rights, & abortion made illegal.
Today's Christians are very different than the original "Jewish Christians" of Jesus's time. Where they believed that following Him was all about emulating his behavior & his advice, today Christianity is about worshiping him & seeking salvation by accepting him as their savior. Jesus spoke about succoring the meek & poor. But many of today's Christians ignore this, & are concerned only about homosexuality & abortion (which was allowed by the Church up to 16 & 1/2 weeks until Pius IX changed it in 1869). Too many of today's Christians, I observe, want both the Crown of Thorns & the 30 pieces of Silver. They elected a sinning heretic only in hopes of having Iron Age sexual taboos, LGBT rights, & abortion made illegal.
372
Beautifully articulated . Southern writers have a way of digging at the truth through words that gives their prose a richness that the rest of we mere mortals can only strive to attain. Thank you for a thought-provoking and affirmative read, Margaret, on this Palm Sunday.
5
Jewish people are very liberal when it comes to social issues like abortion and gay marriage. This was stated in the New York Times not to long ago by a Jewish woman.
Catholics have been involved in the pro-life movement since Roe v Wade and have been joined by some Protestant faiths. I know this from experience.
Catholics have been involved in the pro-life movement since Roe v Wade and have been joined by some Protestant faiths. I know this from experience.
1
The rabbi was Hillel. After he made the commentary statement, supposedly he said "Go and study." And if one does study, one will find many contradictions. For example, a just God would not allow Satan to kill a devout man's relatives in order to show how steadfast the man's belief was. The better reading of Job is the lesson that bad things happen to good people.
If you do a search for Hillel, you will find some variants of this anecdote.
If you do a search for Hillel, you will find some variants of this anecdote.
2
"With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil. But for good people to do evil---that takes religion."-- Steven Weinberg.
"Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool."--Voltaire
"Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool."--Voltaire
21
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich" Napoleon
21
Amen, sister.
5
People are free to believe whatever they want. To "hammer" your beliefs into your children, relatives and friends is understandable, but a bit frightening. Your "beliefs" or your "blind faith", whichever term you prefer, may help you as an individual,but it does nothing for humanity, the earth, and dealing with an alarmingly, inept, treasonous president. The second the conversation goes towards the "virgin" mary and her supposed virgin pregnancy to produce a god is when most sound people shrug their shoulders and wonder what the heck your'e talking about.
8
What a refreshing, thoughtful essay this is! It has been curious how Evangelicals & Catholics have gradually become GOP Conservatives over the last 40 years. They have gone from being voters for born-again Jimmy Carter to blindly supporting Trump, yet he is the antithesis of everything their Savior said & believed. Planned Parenthood helps eliminate abortion through supplying contraception to women, no matter what their income, but Conservative Christians are convinced it has to go.
This is not the Christianity I was raised in, but a dark side version. We are cursed with TV evangelists preaching a "prosperity Gospel" or claiming they know the Mind of a Supreme Being. The tent revival preacher has been replaced by MegaChurch Pastors with private jets & huge mansions, preaching frugality & humility.
We have seen the emergence of "fake news", but it was preceded by "fake religion" becoming popular in the last 40 years.
This is not the Christianity I was raised in, but a dark side version. We are cursed with TV evangelists preaching a "prosperity Gospel" or claiming they know the Mind of a Supreme Being. The tent revival preacher has been replaced by MegaChurch Pastors with private jets & huge mansions, preaching frugality & humility.
We have seen the emergence of "fake news", but it was preceded by "fake religion" becoming popular in the last 40 years.
20
I have grown weary of arguing with my good hearted, right wing , Fox News watching family, friends and neighbors. Sometimes it feels like I'm one of the last few people that haven't become a victim of an updated Invasion of the Body Snatchers. My octogenarian father soldiers on in a Southern Baptist church that he helped to build and still argues for his FDR liberalism while the preacher and majority of his "fellow" worshipers talk incessantly about the latest liberal outrage as trumpeted by Fox, Rush, et al. Maybe this is what it was like to be a liberal Christian in Germany eight decades ago.
25
And, maybe your Dad's church has been swiped, just as Gorsuch has swiped his seat on the Supreme Court?
Do "Christians" steal...?
Naw. How could that be...?
Do "Christians" steal...?
Naw. How could that be...?
7
This piece treats one of the most perplexing problems in contemporary America with some insight and compassionate, relevant anecdotes, but it is--as a whole--seriously incoherent. What does the Judas/Peter comparison of the opening have to do with the divided minds and behaviors of southern/working class Christians?
2
We can't condemn just the Southerners. I know a lot of Midwesterners who have the same ideas. They focus their religion on the Old Testament's "thou shall nots" and use them to justify their disapproval of anyone who violates their interpretation of those maxims. Even though they call themselves Christians, they ignore the only commandment given by Christ, "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself." And when a man tried to catch him by asking who was his neighbor, Jesus replied with the story of the Good Samaritan to illustrate that that the prime example of neighborhood was helping those in need even though they were considered lesser by those who considered themselves holy.
DISCLAIMER: I don't consider myself a Christian in any sense but I definitely believe in upholding our responsibility to treat everyone as worthy of love and understanding.
DISCLAIMER: I don't consider myself a Christian in any sense but I definitely believe in upholding our responsibility to treat everyone as worthy of love and understanding.
18
The way for Christians to hugely reduce abortions is to convince other Christians to stop having them (good luck with that). They seem to have abortions at the same rate as everyone else. Then provide birth control and sex education to those who should not have children.
By the way, it is not just Christians. When alien archaeologists come to this planet eons from now they will conclude that Hypocrisy was the great religion of mankind and that we were devout people.
By the way, it is not just Christians. When alien archaeologists come to this planet eons from now they will conclude that Hypocrisy was the great religion of mankind and that we were devout people.
11
Christians longing after political power and the worldly domination of living in "Christian nation" need to pick up their Bibles and reread Mark 8:36. They would be well advised to think twice about what they are asking for.
4
As a born and raised atheist, I find it hard to believe that Christians like Mike Pence actually believe what they claim to believe. The world is 6000 years old? Noah's Ark? To me it seems like a case of nobody being willing to admit that the emperor has no clothes. But maybe it's just that what you learn as a child becomes the basis for what you accept without question.
16
"... learn as a child..."
Yes. All religion is "learned".
All doctrines, all dogmas, all rituals, MUST be learned as no one is ever born knowing them.
Yes. All religion is "learned".
All doctrines, all dogmas, all rituals, MUST be learned as no one is ever born knowing them.
10
"Long before the government agencies mobilize, local churches are taking up donations, cooking hot meals, helping people pick through the wreckage — helping everyone, no matter their religion or the color of their skin or the language they speak at home."
Did that really happen in the Lower 9th Ward? (And it took a very long time for the government headed by born-again G.W. Bush to get mobilized in that case)
Did that really happen in the Lower 9th Ward? (And it took a very long time for the government headed by born-again G.W. Bush to get mobilized in that case)
8
I really appreciated this article, but was really annoyed at the end to the reference of "Christian Nation". This term I've heard several times and frankly it's insulting and alienating. You can't argue for more kindness, compassion and less division while simultaneously disrespecting others beliefs. I'm not a Christian and have no desire to live in a nation consistently putting down my beliefs. That's intolerance and last I checked we have separation of church and state. It's ignorant to believe Christians are better people because of their beliefs. History says much different and so does this past election.
55
What an infuriating, dishonest article that insults all people who can read and think.
Southern Christians? Seriously? What is this? Cloying, syrupy, holier-than-thou? Is this the southern hospitality? Eyebrows raised dismissal of everyone different from the benign and weak, and raw hatred toward everyone else from those with power? The unmitigated devotion to backwardness, the passionate embrace of every backward idea and opposition to everything good?
I guess the author would like the rest of us to believe that Southern Christians have existed in a sterile bubble, and have had nothing to do with the attack dogs, fire hoses, nooses, lynchings. Or the anti-semitism.
Passionate? Sure. But about the wrong things. About couching white supremacy as a cultural and religious tenet. About uniting around a singular notion: "We are in charge, we will suffer you if you do as told, stay behind the horizon, do our work. You are not equal, nor worthy. As long as we agree on this, we will all get along."
What makes the words in this article particularly jarring is that the southern passion for racial superiority and hatred toward others is matched by the passion for feeding on the federal teat. Their message to the America they hate (left coast, west coast, Northeast): "leave your money here and buzz off, we are entitled to being medieval here."
Sure Margaret, we'll do that.
Definitely Southern, definitely not Christian.
Kalidan
Southern Christians? Seriously? What is this? Cloying, syrupy, holier-than-thou? Is this the southern hospitality? Eyebrows raised dismissal of everyone different from the benign and weak, and raw hatred toward everyone else from those with power? The unmitigated devotion to backwardness, the passionate embrace of every backward idea and opposition to everything good?
I guess the author would like the rest of us to believe that Southern Christians have existed in a sterile bubble, and have had nothing to do with the attack dogs, fire hoses, nooses, lynchings. Or the anti-semitism.
Passionate? Sure. But about the wrong things. About couching white supremacy as a cultural and religious tenet. About uniting around a singular notion: "We are in charge, we will suffer you if you do as told, stay behind the horizon, do our work. You are not equal, nor worthy. As long as we agree on this, we will all get along."
What makes the words in this article particularly jarring is that the southern passion for racial superiority and hatred toward others is matched by the passion for feeding on the federal teat. Their message to the America they hate (left coast, west coast, Northeast): "leave your money here and buzz off, we are entitled to being medieval here."
Sure Margaret, we'll do that.
Definitely Southern, definitely not Christian.
Kalidan
32
I spend a lot of time in the South for work and I find it a confusing place.
The whole Southern Hospitality thing feels like a thin patina that is only so deep and should not be tested
The notion of Southern folks coming together in disasters is not exceptional - NYC in many ways was at its finest supporting each other during Sandy
Individuals are always great, but you also make the point the South can't come to terms with groups.
I'm sure you're right that Putin could get elected by the South if he ran on anti abortion. And isn't that where it all falls apart? The myopia that puts any price including murder (yes, Putin is a killer) ahead of the issue?
And before Roe v Wade I seem to remember the South being in turmoil. The big issue then was Civil Rights. I'm guessing Putin could have been elected then if he had promised no Civil Rights.
So what's the South's true compass? What whole are the South part of?
The whole Southern Hospitality thing feels like a thin patina that is only so deep and should not be tested
The notion of Southern folks coming together in disasters is not exceptional - NYC in many ways was at its finest supporting each other during Sandy
Individuals are always great, but you also make the point the South can't come to terms with groups.
I'm sure you're right that Putin could get elected by the South if he ran on anti abortion. And isn't that where it all falls apart? The myopia that puts any price including murder (yes, Putin is a killer) ahead of the issue?
And before Roe v Wade I seem to remember the South being in turmoil. The big issue then was Civil Rights. I'm guessing Putin could have been elected then if he had promised no Civil Rights.
So what's the South's true compass? What whole are the South part of?
38
My dear, how in world could you write a column about Southern "Christians" without mentioning that they are dyed in the wool racists. There is hatred in their hearts and they can fool themselves that they are good people but my experience is that they are hypocrites with violent tendencies towards any person or group that infringes on their "leave it to beaver" fantasy.
36
I would take issue. Sitting in a church does not make you a Christian any more than sitting in a garage makes you a car. Christianity is defined by actions, not platitudes. When you obsess about Leviticus and ignore the Beatitudes (that whole Sermon on the Mount thing about humility, charity, and brotherly love), you are not Christian, you are a zealot. Unfortunately, Christians have allowed Christianity to be hijacked by the evangelical, prosperity gospel, Six Flags Over Jesus crowd. Their core belief seems to be "I got mine, sucks to be you." I don't get to define who is a Christian and who is not (that's God's job), but I do not see these folks living out their faith through their actions.
41
All the leftists on here bashing conservative Christians wouldn't dare bash conservative Muslims, who are an actual threat to liberalism. Why is that? I guess the same reason PETA only targets fur wearing old ladies and not leather wearing bikers.
During the campaign, Trump reminded me of the classic televangelist: promising that world we aspire to, riches we covet, and rules to be enacted which will protect us. He preached effectively, despite a limited vocabulary.
Where the preacher begs for money and allegience, Trump begged for our votes and allegience (the money comes later in the form of reduced taxes on the rich).
It was laughable when Trump described the abortion process to garner votes from many of the "abortion issue" folks. Only because I could imagine him paying many of his mistresses to abort his "mistakes" over the years.
Where the preacher begs for money and allegience, Trump begged for our votes and allegience (the money comes later in the form of reduced taxes on the rich).
It was laughable when Trump described the abortion process to garner votes from many of the "abortion issue" folks. Only because I could imagine him paying many of his mistresses to abort his "mistakes" over the years.
20
This column gets to the tribalist heart of Christianity for my fellow white Southerners. I gave up on organized religion years ago but have always tried to live my life as a Christian. Sadly, most fundamentalist and evangelical churches, which are dominant in this region, are led by old men, who use carefully selected church teachings in an attempt to indoctrinate younger generations in worship that deifies themselves and their grandparents instead of Christ. They skip past the New Testament Gospels to concentrate on Paul, Peter and other early saints whose focus was on building unity within the church. Even today, these churches shut out the rest of the world in the mistaken belief that only their tribe will get into heaven.
257
To that I say, "Can I get a Hallelujah!?"
3
In order to win this election, DJT made himself appealing to those who have strong passions that he could play and use. He spoke to the tribal connections that many depend on to feel a sense of belonging. These tribal beliefs are central to who most of us have been our whole lives. It was a truly brilliant strategy, because a rejection of DJT would be a reassessment of our central belief systems, and most of us aren't prepared for that. Truly brilliant.
6
As an Aussie Christian, I am saddened with what I see happening in the US. I think the author has put it much, much better than what I could have.
Unfortunately in the land of Oz, we are going down the same road as you, with many of the right wing politicians claiming they are Christian, but are caring little for the poor, the dispossessed, the asylum seeker, the elderly, the environment etc.
One of the thing that gives me some hope is articles like this, as well as knowing many other Christians here that are concerned with the things I mentioned.
Keep fighting the good fight. Keep on doing it 'for the least of these'.
Unfortunately in the land of Oz, we are going down the same road as you, with many of the right wing politicians claiming they are Christian, but are caring little for the poor, the dispossessed, the asylum seeker, the elderly, the environment etc.
One of the thing that gives me some hope is articles like this, as well as knowing many other Christians here that are concerned with the things I mentioned.
Keep fighting the good fight. Keep on doing it 'for the least of these'.
12
Do these folks have any idea how utterly repellent their hypocrisy makes them to millions of us?
One of the biggest scourges to the human race is religion, the ultimate in crowd control, mind control and herd control. It's an escape from logical thought process, and an excuse to not think or reason. Religion blinds and binds its adherents. Religion is ready made for those that can't, or won't think and reason for themselves. What's worse, this easily led group thinks all others should behave and act as it does. They are right and all others are wrong.
When a charlatan and a liar like Donald Trump comes around with his false promises and hate filed rhetoric, gullibility, ignorance and stupidity, the major traits of all religions, comes into the picture in all their ugliness.
Religion provides the means for believers not to think and to decide for themselves, but to simply act and do as they are told.
Hypocrites can always find a home in religion, especially in American Christianity, especially if you are white, born in the U.S. and live in the South.
When a charlatan and a liar like Donald Trump comes around with his false promises and hate filed rhetoric, gullibility, ignorance and stupidity, the major traits of all religions, comes into the picture in all their ugliness.
Religion provides the means for believers not to think and to decide for themselves, but to simply act and do as they are told.
Hypocrites can always find a home in religion, especially in American Christianity, especially if you are white, born in the U.S. and live in the South.
24
In antebellum times, white southern christians used the Bible to justify slavery. Picking and choosing messages that fit your biases and prejudices is a very old tradition that continues to this day.
27
It was on the road to Damascus that the tax collector Saul of Tarsus had an epiphany: only the little people should pay taxes. This distortion of the original story is like the strange morphing of early forms of Christianity into the current right wing brand of the religion.
4
After 40 years in the Catholic church, 30 of them as a Eucharistic Minister, I stopped attending after the pastor read a letter from Bishop Barres - Allentown Diocese, PA , now Rockville Centre, NY - telling the parishioners there was one issue that trumps all others in the Presidential election. If that is what being a member of that "Christian" community believes then my wife and I will seek spiritual guidance elsewhere.
Thank you for your essay which helps us to understand our decision to take the teachings of Christ a little more seriously.
Thank you for your essay which helps us to understand our decision to take the teachings of Christ a little more seriously.
14
And yet I stay in the Catholic Church, working in a heavily immigrant parish. (That was OUR issue in the election). None of us are one plank humans and so it is with faith; we are defined by so much more, if we allow ourselves to see all of the Christian issues that surround us. There are other non-one plankers out there!
5
Patricia,
I realize how complex some issues can become. For me it was too much to ask us to not be aware of just how demented and delusional this candidate was and pretend his statements about "pro-life" were good enough to earn the not so subtle recommendation from the pulpit. My wife and I continue to work with the St Vincent DePaul group at that church but it's time to find a better way. The world and our life in it is a magnificent miracle to be appreciated and dealt with every day. I hope your immigrant friends find a way in this new narrow political climate.
I realize how complex some issues can become. For me it was too much to ask us to not be aware of just how demented and delusional this candidate was and pretend his statements about "pro-life" were good enough to earn the not so subtle recommendation from the pulpit. My wife and I continue to work with the St Vincent DePaul group at that church but it's time to find a better way. The world and our life in it is a magnificent miracle to be appreciated and dealt with every day. I hope your immigrant friends find a way in this new narrow political climate.
4
Abortion rates are way, way down since Roe v.Wade was first decided. This is because of more sex ed, and the great success of groups like Planed Parenthood to make birth control much more available. I never hear the right wing talk about this fact.
51
Southerners who claim to be Christian, but act like Republicans, justify their behavior by quoting misconstrued Scripture lifted out of context from the Holy Bible.
The Holy Bible defines two quite different religions. The Old Testament describes a community religion given specifically and exclusively to a chosen people. Only persons born to an Israelite or Jewish mother can be chosen; all others are outside the pale. The religion consists of several hundred rules of behavior, the first Ten being the best known and most applicable to all God-revering peoples.
The New Testament defines the Christian religion, which is a personal religion open to all who will accept it. The religion consists of only two commandments to govern attitude and behavior in any situation.
Packaging the holy scriptures of two religions in the same volume naturally leads to theological confusion and personal preference. Southern preachers tend to favor the rich and earthy rules of the Old Testament over the fundamentals of the New Testament. For an aggrieved person, “an eye for an eye” is more natural than “turn the other cheek”.
An unbiased study of the verbose, tedious, and repetitive Holy Bible is required to avoid confusion. Packaging the Testaments separately, or including the Holy Koran as a Third Testament, would offer a better perspective of the three God-based religions.
The Holy Bible defines two quite different religions. The Old Testament describes a community religion given specifically and exclusively to a chosen people. Only persons born to an Israelite or Jewish mother can be chosen; all others are outside the pale. The religion consists of several hundred rules of behavior, the first Ten being the best known and most applicable to all God-revering peoples.
The New Testament defines the Christian religion, which is a personal religion open to all who will accept it. The religion consists of only two commandments to govern attitude and behavior in any situation.
Packaging the holy scriptures of two religions in the same volume naturally leads to theological confusion and personal preference. Southern preachers tend to favor the rich and earthy rules of the Old Testament over the fundamentals of the New Testament. For an aggrieved person, “an eye for an eye” is more natural than “turn the other cheek”.
An unbiased study of the verbose, tedious, and repetitive Holy Bible is required to avoid confusion. Packaging the Testaments separately, or including the Holy Koran as a Third Testament, would offer a better perspective of the three God-based religions.
7
The Bible and the Koran, are beautiful pieces of literature. They belong on the book self with other world masterpieces of fiction that have been written over the years.
1
Republicans are not pro-life. They're pro-fetus.
They don't care about the kid (or mother) after birth. The so-called "freedom caucus" opposed Trumpcare because they thought that abolishing maternity care wasn't cruel enough.
They don't care about the kid (or mother) after birth. The so-called "freedom caucus" opposed Trumpcare because they thought that abolishing maternity care wasn't cruel enough.
68
they are also "pro brain dead on life support and won't let your family have the plug pulled."
4
I have a question. Why do these Christians think they have the right to control my body by denying me the right to use contraception or choose an abortion? I am an atheist. Your Bible means nothing to me except a book of tales. I don't demand that you have an abortion or use birth control or realize that that there is no god. I leave your beliefs and customs alone. Please honor the Constitution and keep your religion out of my life and my country's laws.
What a thoughtful column. Thank you, Ms. Renkl. Otherwise, Jon Lennon's song "Imagine" comes to mind. I wish every world leader, including religious leaders, would listen to it. Heck, I wish everyone in the world could listen to it.
15
My dear old mother makes a point of saying she is a Christian, and judges the advice or opinions of others based on whether they are "Christians" too. I mean the southern, evangelical-type of Christianity--saved by public profession, followed by full-immersion baptism. She is also personally and politically conservative. So much so that she will vote to have the Devil's nephew as president so long as he ran as a Republican and will appoint a conservative like Scalia to the U.S. Supreme Court. She knows Roe v. Wade will never be reversed by SCOTUS, but so long as Republican politicians continually harass Planned Parenthood and other abortion providers that is good enough for her. Same with illegal immigrants; she knows they will never all be deported, she just wants them to be plucked for deportation at random as punishment for coming here illegally--which is now the ICE program. And, of course, no more Muslims should be allowed into the country. That, and unwavering support of Israel no matter what. The Jews are not Christians but they are God's chosen people, and that's that. That's pretty much it. Despite the fact my mom and her extended family are well educated and relatively financially comfortable, for most of them these are the main positions they need to support a politician. If Trump does nothing more than appoint Gorsuch they feel rewarded for their vote.
But don't you even think about messing with her Medicare--as she told me, Trump promised he wouldn't.
But don't you even think about messing with her Medicare--as she told me, Trump promised he wouldn't.
62
I also live in a state whose people are renowned for their hospitality as well as for their antediluvian politics. Some of my relatives despise Trump's behavior and amoral values but voted for him on the abortion issue. One of them labeled Clinton a murderer because of her support for a woman's right to choose.
Ms. Renkl's explanation of this odd phenomenon makes sense to me. The capacity of decent people to treat individuals kindly, while adhering to abstract beliefs that condemn those individuals to hell, or at least deportation, has never ceased to astonish me. Some of them subscribe to a version of Christianity that depicts God as a loving father but dismisses his children as worthless creatures. These same Christians, however, treat their own children, and even strangers, as if they possessed infinite value.
They like their neighbors, but many of them cling to guns as the first line of defense in a chaotic world. The evangelicals among them tend to see the world as an evil kingdom ruled by Satan, whose dominance will end only through the rapture and his defeat in the battle of Armageddon.
This set of beliefs makes government a problematical institution at best. Only fire and the sword can redeem the world, but a president who pursues the right policies can at least stave off the worst consequences of evil. In the meantime, God still admonishes his children to help the poor, just not through government.
What a strange world we live in.
Ms. Renkl's explanation of this odd phenomenon makes sense to me. The capacity of decent people to treat individuals kindly, while adhering to abstract beliefs that condemn those individuals to hell, or at least deportation, has never ceased to astonish me. Some of them subscribe to a version of Christianity that depicts God as a loving father but dismisses his children as worthless creatures. These same Christians, however, treat their own children, and even strangers, as if they possessed infinite value.
They like their neighbors, but many of them cling to guns as the first line of defense in a chaotic world. The evangelicals among them tend to see the world as an evil kingdom ruled by Satan, whose dominance will end only through the rapture and his defeat in the battle of Armageddon.
This set of beliefs makes government a problematical institution at best. Only fire and the sword can redeem the world, but a president who pursues the right policies can at least stave off the worst consequences of evil. In the meantime, God still admonishes his children to help the poor, just not through government.
What a strange world we live in.
14
Trump's and the GOP' betrayals and their victims are numerous.
Consider:
(1) Trump breaks many of his populist promises to improve things for his working class supporters. His backing of Ryancare is a case in point. In no way did that misbegotten plan provide better care for "everybody" at "lower costs" with "more choices."
(2) The GOP establishment is in solid opposition to Trump's populist "promises." Speaker Ryan and the GOP establishment will do their best to privatize, to underfund or to otherwise undermine not only the ACA, but also Medicare and Social Security. Further, there will be no GOP establishment support of Trump's "promise" to repair and improve the nation's infrastructure.
(3) Trump has a history of robbing the "little people"--Trump University, stiffing contractors, etc. Trump's history may be more blatantly obvious, but it is not all that different from the histories of many of the plutocrats the GOP serves.
(4) Trump has used bankruptcy as a ploy to build his personal fortune and his comebacks from financial disasters.
(5) As a result of Trump's numerous bankruptcies, reputable U.S. banks will no longer lend to him.
(6) Trump is carrying $300,000,000 in loans from Deutsche Bank, a disreputable bank which has been successfully prosecuted for laundering billions of dollars for Russian oligarchs.
(7) Trump's ties with Russia--and the GOP's failure to significantly address the issue--are major threats to our national autonomy and security.
Consider:
(1) Trump breaks many of his populist promises to improve things for his working class supporters. His backing of Ryancare is a case in point. In no way did that misbegotten plan provide better care for "everybody" at "lower costs" with "more choices."
(2) The GOP establishment is in solid opposition to Trump's populist "promises." Speaker Ryan and the GOP establishment will do their best to privatize, to underfund or to otherwise undermine not only the ACA, but also Medicare and Social Security. Further, there will be no GOP establishment support of Trump's "promise" to repair and improve the nation's infrastructure.
(3) Trump has a history of robbing the "little people"--Trump University, stiffing contractors, etc. Trump's history may be more blatantly obvious, but it is not all that different from the histories of many of the plutocrats the GOP serves.
(4) Trump has used bankruptcy as a ploy to build his personal fortune and his comebacks from financial disasters.
(5) As a result of Trump's numerous bankruptcies, reputable U.S. banks will no longer lend to him.
(6) Trump is carrying $300,000,000 in loans from Deutsche Bank, a disreputable bank which has been successfully prosecuted for laundering billions of dollars for Russian oligarchs.
(7) Trump's ties with Russia--and the GOP's failure to significantly address the issue--are major threats to our national autonomy and security.
I was born Catholic and have never considered myself a "Christian". Pretty much every so-called Self proclaimed Christian is a charlatan and a hypocrite. The true Christians don't feel the need to advertise their religious preference. The true Christian who follows Christ's word leads by example, and not by flapping their gums about their piety.
48
I am a cradle Catholic as well, who also went on to become a cafeteria Catholic. Eventually I spurned "formal" Catholicism after the priest sex-abuse scandal and the realization that the Catholic establishment was out of touch with the complexity of life in contemporary America. And as for single plank Catholics, my parents, lifelong Ohioans and Roman Catholics, were definitely these. So much so that nearly 30 years ago, when I first met my wife, I told her, in describing my mother, that she would have voted for Adolph Hitler if he had been opposed to abortion. My wife is Jewish.
22
I once had a phone call from a pollster asking me if I was going to vote Democratic or Republican. I said Democrat. Then the person asked for my reason. I said because I am a Christian and that party aligns most with my beliefs. The pollster was stunned. Silence. A well, um, gee, I don't know what to say. Just say that you haven't fallen victim to the fake news caricature of what Christianity is and means.
763
That was why I became a Democrat, because that political party aligned more closely with my personal beliefs as a Christian.
5
I'm always happy to hear the voice of a fellow Southerner in the NY Times. But perhaps because I lost my faith--and, sadly, much of my accent--years ago, I can't chalk up that divide you speak of simply to scale.
Instead, it seems to be a function of the cognitive dissonance that is the South's--and the nation's--greatest hallmark. Honed over generations, we have an exquisite ability to raise hell on Saturday and hosannas on Sunday. We're the people of sweet tea and separate water fountains, of Mayberry and the KKK.
I wonder how many of my Southern Baptist relations know that their denominations didn't fuss about abortion until they were trained to by the religious right.
Instead, it seems to be a function of the cognitive dissonance that is the South's--and the nation's--greatest hallmark. Honed over generations, we have an exquisite ability to raise hell on Saturday and hosannas on Sunday. We're the people of sweet tea and separate water fountains, of Mayberry and the KKK.
I wonder how many of my Southern Baptist relations know that their denominations didn't fuss about abortion until they were trained to by the religious right.
633
You are correct, shnnn. I was born in 1948. Not once were "back-ally" abortionists mentioned.
In fact, women barely got a mention at all except as temptresses or being demon-riddled.
Christianity in the 50's and 60's was headed for a dead-end.
Abortion and birth control gave it the bump it needed to survive.
Now Christianity will only survive within the Supreme Court....
.... and the "Nones" will continue to grow.
In fact, women barely got a mention at all except as temptresses or being demon-riddled.
Christianity in the 50's and 60's was headed for a dead-end.
Abortion and birth control gave it the bump it needed to survive.
Now Christianity will only survive within the Supreme Court....
.... and the "Nones" will continue to grow.
6
I am a southerner of the African American bent. It is well known that the most segregated areas in the us today are our churches. Personally, I am not surprised that evangelical Christians are one of Trumps most loyal constituents. When you look at the historical context of Jim Crow and other divisive constructs you have to acknowledge that the church facilitated and legitimized these concepts. In this context One can see how Trump would appeal to certain religious groups.
While southerners are known for their hospitality there is the historical context of intolerance in the same group towards others who are different. Yes they will be pleasant to your face but turn around and quietly undermine or run you out of town which is just duplicitous. I find this an interesting opinion piece but I see the conflicting actions as surface cordiality superimposed over underlying intolerance. I think if you ask the people who are actually different and not of the same persuasion as the author/Christians in question you would likely get a different opinion. In the end I do not know what is in another's heart but actions as in voting and legislation speak louder than a cordial wave and a Bless your heart.
While southerners are known for their hospitality there is the historical context of intolerance in the same group towards others who are different. Yes they will be pleasant to your face but turn around and quietly undermine or run you out of town which is just duplicitous. I find this an interesting opinion piece but I see the conflicting actions as surface cordiality superimposed over underlying intolerance. I think if you ask the people who are actually different and not of the same persuasion as the author/Christians in question you would likely get a different opinion. In the end I do not know what is in another's heart but actions as in voting and legislation speak louder than a cordial wave and a Bless your heart.
598
Agreed. I have been here in Alabama for 20 years. I have thousands of patients in a thriving practice. People are happy to call for advice at 3 AM or ask me to fill out reems of unpaid paperwork, but allow me into their social lives? Never. They smile politely, say I should come to this party or that event, but then never get back to me. I recently heard that the local docs have a Mardi Gras party every year and have gone to great pains to make sure I never heard about it. They don't dislike me and are happy to use me, but their social groups were set in high school and in their churches, and there is no opening to let in a new person, or a new idea. They are very nice to people who are like them, but casually cruel to those who are different - sometimes even their own children, if they don't fit the mold.
12
Satan has many followers in the old confederacy.
15
Religious beliefs aren't what are crippling this nation's politic- it is religious certainty. Such certainty, not just in God's existence but in his specific intent may seem like the highest form of human arrogance to the secular and the enlightened religious. However, to the believer in supernatural religious constructs, a dismissal of their beliefs creates in them the same impression of the secular. Whence the acceptance in the red states of the concept of the blue coasts being arrogant and looking down on their culture.
So our nation is divided politically by race and by religious belief in a way that has finally come to a crisis- the election of a man who should appear to the prescribers of supernatural Christianity as the anti-Christ, but they voted for him anyway, in hopes he would appoint a Supreme Court justice who would end "baby killing".
Of course, if the motivation was actually to end abortions, a more effective and far less cruel plan would be to support sex education and free access to contraception, but when you feel you know every detail of God's plan, your mind works very hard to keep logic out of your equation. Logic is the whisperings of Satan.
So our nation is divided politically by race and by religious belief in a way that has finally come to a crisis- the election of a man who should appear to the prescribers of supernatural Christianity as the anti-Christ, but they voted for him anyway, in hopes he would appoint a Supreme Court justice who would end "baby killing".
Of course, if the motivation was actually to end abortions, a more effective and far less cruel plan would be to support sex education and free access to contraception, but when you feel you know every detail of God's plan, your mind works very hard to keep logic out of your equation. Logic is the whisperings of Satan.
19
As I always say, love the bigot, hate the bigotry.
6
Holy Week upon us, this essay comforts me, the comments too give hope. Thank you.
7
Ms. Renkl laments the hypocrisy of southern Christians, while remaining silent on the hypocrisies of the followers of all the other organized religions. Every religion I have studied calls for the empathetic humane treat of all our fellow humans, yet the world is rife with religious wars and bigotry. A theocracy by definition is abusive and repressive to the rights of nonbelievers, and the a nation bound to Christian rules as law is just as frightening and un-American as is a Muslim caliphate.
24
John, you're right. Pretty much all religions are equally hypocritical and useless.
And your liberalism isn't a religion? Government worship, (communism) has been responsible for more deaths than any other ideology in the modern age. 100's of millions slaughtered by their own Atheist governments in the 20th and 21st centuries.
When you write an article, you don't have to say everything. Furthermore, the writer addresses the South's most prominent religion. Focus and brevity make sharper points!
1
Jesus was not a Christian, and one wonders if Jesus would be alarmed and confused by the actions and statements of those who, in great variety, profess to be the followers of Christ.
Christianity, as with most other human-devised groups, is about as diverse as the human species - good, bad, compassionate, atrocious, thoughtful and thoughtless. Organized religions are bureaucratic, and so are political parties. Many Christians voted for candidates who advocate cutting back on or eliminating programs that help the needy. What was it Jesus said about whether or not the government should help the poor? Will the Trumpers finally eliminate heating assistance, passenger train service, pre-school programs, affordable healtcare for everyone, food and low-income assistance and privatize Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid? Will the army of wealthy individuals gloriously pass enriched beyond imagination through the wide open eye of the national needle? Will millions who rely on government assistance continue to vote against their best interests, as they do when sophisticated propaganda stirs the passions of jealousy, anger and hate? Christians are only an assortment of human beings. Jesus, we are told, was more than merely mortal. There's a big difference between reading and even memorizing the New Testament and acting according to the difficult-to-follow philosophy of Jesus. Casting stones is easier (and perhaps more fun)
than sharing compassion.
Doug Giebel
Big Sandy, Montana
Christianity, as with most other human-devised groups, is about as diverse as the human species - good, bad, compassionate, atrocious, thoughtful and thoughtless. Organized religions are bureaucratic, and so are political parties. Many Christians voted for candidates who advocate cutting back on or eliminating programs that help the needy. What was it Jesus said about whether or not the government should help the poor? Will the Trumpers finally eliminate heating assistance, passenger train service, pre-school programs, affordable healtcare for everyone, food and low-income assistance and privatize Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid? Will the army of wealthy individuals gloriously pass enriched beyond imagination through the wide open eye of the national needle? Will millions who rely on government assistance continue to vote against their best interests, as they do when sophisticated propaganda stirs the passions of jealousy, anger and hate? Christians are only an assortment of human beings. Jesus, we are told, was more than merely mortal. There's a big difference between reading and even memorizing the New Testament and acting according to the difficult-to-follow philosophy of Jesus. Casting stones is easier (and perhaps more fun)
than sharing compassion.
Doug Giebel
Big Sandy, Montana
45
You know what else isn't Christian? Using the force of government to steal from one group and give to another.
1
"abortion has become the ultimate border wall for Southern believers" The South has put up 'border walls' before (slavery). It ended then as it will end up now. The North just thinks people, who actually exist as people, deserve to be given the rights of people. To the North, abortion is wrong, just not so wrong that a woman should be denied the right to choose. The South, enraptured as it is by fantasy, continually thinks otherwise. You need fantasy, you see, to tell a woman that her 18-year, half-million-dollar sacrifice (and all for the 'privilege of sending her offspring into a world of 10 billion people whose jobs are going to robots) is something you would totally endure with her. If, you know, you weren't late for your latest golf game with the Parson to count how many angels will fit on the head of a pin.
10
Southern conservative christians are very frightened people. They expected the environment to remain static and things changed quickly. Now they are in denial. They aren't able to reconcile Trump with real Christianity but they will change Christianity into christianity to fit Trump. Trump must be blessed by their god because he really has no skills, other than self promotion, that explains his financial success. And that is what they really worship. And that is what their preachers tell them.
Your dream of Christianity standing up in this world, lifting it's voice for something more than weekly choir practice, is nice.
Hope is nice, it keeps you moving, gets you out of the bed in the morning.
Or maybe it's just a caffeine addiction.
Us poor, lovable Christians have been praying and tithing since God knows when, waiting for the miracle, helping each other live through disasters, visiting the sick, comforting the bereft, making it work in each handy little microcosm.
But out there, down the Interstate, over there where the airlines go every day, the sand runs out of the bag.
Once you climb out of the little hole that is the home, the church and the work-place, and after you pay your yearly tithe to the cruise missile monster and get yourself buried, patiently awaiting resurrection, has anything changed anywhere?
Sorry, but we have been waiting for centuries, leaving the big money on the table, feeding the corrupt bargain of "render unto Caesar" that makes all that praying and devotion useless.
This is a physical, animal world that each year becomes harder to transcend, of which we are now indisputably the critical part.
We can no longer comfortably choose to ignore it- to focus on the immaterial.
Herein lies our last naked hope- our true last chance to change ourselves and this particular world in which we see ourselves, for now, each day, in the morning's mirror.
And that, brethren, is no illusion.
Hope is nice, it keeps you moving, gets you out of the bed in the morning.
Or maybe it's just a caffeine addiction.
Us poor, lovable Christians have been praying and tithing since God knows when, waiting for the miracle, helping each other live through disasters, visiting the sick, comforting the bereft, making it work in each handy little microcosm.
But out there, down the Interstate, over there where the airlines go every day, the sand runs out of the bag.
Once you climb out of the little hole that is the home, the church and the work-place, and after you pay your yearly tithe to the cruise missile monster and get yourself buried, patiently awaiting resurrection, has anything changed anywhere?
Sorry, but we have been waiting for centuries, leaving the big money on the table, feeding the corrupt bargain of "render unto Caesar" that makes all that praying and devotion useless.
This is a physical, animal world that each year becomes harder to transcend, of which we are now indisputably the critical part.
We can no longer comfortably choose to ignore it- to focus on the immaterial.
Herein lies our last naked hope- our true last chance to change ourselves and this particular world in which we see ourselves, for now, each day, in the morning's mirror.
And that, brethren, is no illusion.
2
"They’d put Vladimir Putin in the White House if he promised to overturn Roe v. Wade." and they fly the largest American flag in their porch and call in to right-wing hate shows professing their love for the Constitution and Jesus. What they really want is 'white' America with appropriately sized sprinkles of diversity (without representation - if possible -thanks to Gerrymandering, voter ID legislation), so not to be called racist and deplorables. And if that person is Putin or Putin-colluding traitor who undo AMERICAS promise and march to a better nation and be a beacon to the world, so be it.
The cracks are already showing...
The cracks are already showing...
18
This is a compelling article, but it ignores the elephant in the room.
Historically, the South has often been a single-party region, but In the years leading up to the Civil War southern votes were often split between Democrats and Whigs. Then an anti-slavery Republican was elected without the votes of a single southern state. The South seceded from the union. After the war, the South reliably voted for Democrats until Richard Nixon and his southern strategy. The South became a Republican region during the Reagan administration.
What is the common thread?
Before the Civil War, the South voted for Democrats or Whigs who defended slavery. After the Civil War the South voted for Democrats who defended segregation. Then, between 1964 and 1967, Lyndon Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act, The Housing Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act. In 1968 and 1972 Richard Nixon ran racist campaigns based on a "Southern strategy". In 1980, Ronald Reagan's campaign was filled with appeals to racists as he railed against "welfare queens". Can we forget George H. W. Bush's Willie Horton ad?
Do you see the common thread? The South votes anti-black.
Historically, the South has often been a single-party region, but In the years leading up to the Civil War southern votes were often split between Democrats and Whigs. Then an anti-slavery Republican was elected without the votes of a single southern state. The South seceded from the union. After the war, the South reliably voted for Democrats until Richard Nixon and his southern strategy. The South became a Republican region during the Reagan administration.
What is the common thread?
Before the Civil War, the South voted for Democrats or Whigs who defended slavery. After the Civil War the South voted for Democrats who defended segregation. Then, between 1964 and 1967, Lyndon Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act, The Housing Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act. In 1968 and 1972 Richard Nixon ran racist campaigns based on a "Southern strategy". In 1980, Ronald Reagan's campaign was filled with appeals to racists as he railed against "welfare queens". Can we forget George H. W. Bush's Willie Horton ad?
Do you see the common thread? The South votes anti-black.
115
The South votes:
anti-black
anti-poor
anti-woman
and anti-environment.
anti-black
anti-poor
anti-woman
and anti-environment.
487
Tajip Erdogan won the Turkish presidency on the strength of rural Muslim fundamentalist support. Morsi won it in Egypt under the banner of the Muslim Brotherhood for the same reason, despite being toppled by his country's military. Jesus found his following in the small villages and towns of Palestine.
Flyover country and, by extension, areas deserted by an economy geared to abandon people through automation and by exploiting cheap labor elsewhere, have always been fertile ground for religious extremism as it serves as a a kind of last stand against the impersonal forces that the corporate/military state leaves in its wake.
Flyover country and, by extension, areas deserted by an economy geared to abandon people through automation and by exploiting cheap labor elsewhere, have always been fertile ground for religious extremism as it serves as a a kind of last stand against the impersonal forces that the corporate/military state leaves in its wake.
8
Good point, Tom. It's worth adding that the drought in rural Syria had the same effect: millions of uneducated, highly religious farmers lost their crops and migrated to the cities, bringing their extremist views and anger to the urban centers of political power. It's as if all the right-wing homers of Alabama and Mississippi suddenly descended upon Minneapolis.
13
I live in Florida, where the will of the people is expressed by our "stand your ground" law, which lets us shoot people to death if we're irritated or inconvenienced. Is that the Christianity you mean?
47
I have no empathy for your people. They are as hypocritical as people (as you well note in your article) as they are as Christians.
9
Every Ash Wednesday my colleagues and students at school look at the ash on my forehead and say "Wow! I didn't know YOU were a Christian!"
I don't know whether to feel good or bad about that.
I don't know whether to feel good or bad about that.
2
All I want from the so called christians is that they leave me alone. You can believe in your imaginary friend all you want. Just don't impose his rules on the rest of us.
As for what Trump will do to the south, I don't care. I hope they all lose their health care and whatever else Trump wants to take from them. They did it to themselves!
As for what Trump will do to the south, I don't care. I hope they all lose their health care and whatever else Trump wants to take from them. They did it to themselves!
22
Those who voted for Trump deserve everything bad that is going to happen to them: pollution of their air and water, violation of their online privacy, loss of health care coverage, loss of medicare and medicaid, loss of social security, loss of science, loss of savings due to investment deregulation, suppression of opposing opinions online due to the loss of net neutrality, the extinction of the middle class (they'll become poor), and the rich will become obscenely rich off the backs of everyone else. Trickle down economics is a myth. We are descending into a kleptocracy. Truth is dying as the mainstream press is delegitemized and supppressed. I am glad I am 69 and won't live much longer. I only regret that my son will have to live under this.
20
I'm 67 and I absolutely agree.
3
Daisy.
Spot on. I'm 70. Hope they do indeed go down hard. It couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of ignorant and gullible fools.
Too bad the innocent are going to suffer because too.
Spot on. I'm 70. Hope they do indeed go down hard. It couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of ignorant and gullible fools.
Too bad the innocent are going to suffer because too.
5
I grew up in Georgia, lived a decade or so as an young adult in New England and then moved to Florida. Florida is sort of Southern Lite. Its southern character has been watered down people from all over moving down to enjoy the weather. Like Ms. Renkl I was born Catholic in a land of Baptists and Methodists.
I too have been dumbstruck by the contradictions that people display in their beliefs and behavior. I've listened to people who will talk about the need for a constitutional amendment against abortion, while in the next breath talking about the how doctors who perform abortions should face capital punishment all in the name of the sanctity of life. I've heard people say truly hateful things about African Americans and later seen the same people treating their black friend with true affection.
What is truly amazing to me is that people who exhibit these behaviors are not mentally dysfunctional. They are not 'dumb' by any stretch of the word. I think it would be more accurate to describe them as unthoughtful. They exhibit a behavior that seems to be the opposite of mindfulness. They do not seem take the time to evaluate the beliefs that they have, where those beliefs come from and why they have them. They just have them.
I've personally found people like this just about everywhere I've traveled too. It seems to be a very normal part of the human condition. Some humans are just like this.
I too have been dumbstruck by the contradictions that people display in their beliefs and behavior. I've listened to people who will talk about the need for a constitutional amendment against abortion, while in the next breath talking about the how doctors who perform abortions should face capital punishment all in the name of the sanctity of life. I've heard people say truly hateful things about African Americans and later seen the same people treating their black friend with true affection.
What is truly amazing to me is that people who exhibit these behaviors are not mentally dysfunctional. They are not 'dumb' by any stretch of the word. I think it would be more accurate to describe them as unthoughtful. They exhibit a behavior that seems to be the opposite of mindfulness. They do not seem take the time to evaluate the beliefs that they have, where those beliefs come from and why they have them. They just have them.
I've personally found people like this just about everywhere I've traveled too. It seems to be a very normal part of the human condition. Some humans are just like this.
262
This matches my experience growing up in an evangelical church. I think these churches draw in personality types that have a strong need for certainty. There's nothing wrong with this per se, except when that orientation blinds them from understanding the critical need for separation of church and state. Christianity is only possible when people choose it for themselves, and it is at its best when it compels us to look inward for change. Politics is oriented outward - the struggle for power. Too many insular religious communities have rallied around the idea of a faith-as-power-struggle (thank you Fox News.).
I am not optimistic about hope for change here, except, perhaps, long term demographic changes that will reduce their ranks.
I am not optimistic about hope for change here, except, perhaps, long term demographic changes that will reduce their ranks.
3
I think it's called "compartmentalization" and it enables people to be hypocrites or Nazi Party members, or women harassers, or Assad and still think of themselves as "good people," often praised by others who also think of themselves as "good people."
7
That's been my experience as well, and it seems to cross all geographical and class lines. Nor can we pin it solely on genetics or upbringing.
As an example, my great-grandfather was a teetotaler who nevertheless kept a Mason jar of his 80-proof "medicine" under the bathroom sink. Maybe he reckoned that if it's ingested by tablespoon, it doesn't count as drinking. He watched a man land on the moon on TV, and denied that it happened. He would al out certainly be a "birther." The only book ever seen in his hands was the Bible, and he seems to have missed a few key passages in his study of that Good Book. He founded a church, as we knew. But we only found the Klan robe after his death.
His son, though, was an innovative farmer who put what little spare cash he had towards the purchase of a set of Compton's encyclopedia that he read for pleasure. Three of his four children went to college. The fourth supports Trump, but even she seems like a truly kind, loving person. She made a quilt for me and my same-sex, Yankee, half-Jewish partner. But she holds beliefs--and casts ballots--that cause me and people like me actual harm. She doesn't see the contradiction. And I, I fear, can't un-see it.
As an example, my great-grandfather was a teetotaler who nevertheless kept a Mason jar of his 80-proof "medicine" under the bathroom sink. Maybe he reckoned that if it's ingested by tablespoon, it doesn't count as drinking. He watched a man land on the moon on TV, and denied that it happened. He would al out certainly be a "birther." The only book ever seen in his hands was the Bible, and he seems to have missed a few key passages in his study of that Good Book. He founded a church, as we knew. But we only found the Klan robe after his death.
His son, though, was an innovative farmer who put what little spare cash he had towards the purchase of a set of Compton's encyclopedia that he read for pleasure. Three of his four children went to college. The fourth supports Trump, but even she seems like a truly kind, loving person. She made a quilt for me and my same-sex, Yankee, half-Jewish partner. But she holds beliefs--and casts ballots--that cause me and people like me actual harm. She doesn't see the contradiction. And I, I fear, can't un-see it.
3
America a Christian nation? Absolutely--but I do have one question. Mormon or Catholic?
2
I once had the mother of one of my son's ask me (and she was college educated) if the Jews read the Bible (I kid you not). Astounded I said the Jews wrote the Old Testament.
If the author of this article really wants us 'to end up looking like a Christian nation,' the first thing she needs to do is stop defining us as a Christian nation but as a people under God- be he/she Jewish, Christian, Muslim or Hindu. Maybe that sounds a little Pollyanna-ish, but I get real tired of hearing about being a Christian nation as if it is the end-all and the only way to be.
There is room enough for all of us if we allow everyone the freedom to believe and practice and respect each other.
If the author of this article really wants us 'to end up looking like a Christian nation,' the first thing she needs to do is stop defining us as a Christian nation but as a people under God- be he/she Jewish, Christian, Muslim or Hindu. Maybe that sounds a little Pollyanna-ish, but I get real tired of hearing about being a Christian nation as if it is the end-all and the only way to be.
There is room enough for all of us if we allow everyone the freedom to believe and practice and respect each other.
8
I have no God, with a capital "G". Would I be included in your nation? This is the baseline for many of us, in fact, the fastest growing single group of us. We don't want laws created "in the name of God," or because the Bible or the Koran has some obscure passage written by some Bronze-age priest that condemns some person or behavior. i don't vote for representatives who invoke God as a reason for their beliefs. I don't think religion has a place in our civic life. Oddly enough, neither does our Constitution. Hard for many "Christians" to accept, but true.
3
Can't we just leave out god entirely? That whole separation of church and state thing? It was, after all, what our forefathers intended.
7
@Ella- I have no problem leaving leave God out of the conversation. Every person is entitled to his/her own opinions.
Unfortunately for many, Christianity is portrayed as a one note tune: as long as you are against abortion, nothing else matters. You can promote torture, murder, war or any other evil. But if you promise to end abortion you can call yourself Christian.
In fact, Christianity is a whole beautiful symphony. No political party fulfills all of the requirements to be Christian. And I am afraid that many folks who try to follow Christ will be sadly disappointed by the current president.
In fact, Christianity is a whole beautiful symphony. No political party fulfills all of the requirements to be Christian. And I am afraid that many folks who try to follow Christ will be sadly disappointed by the current president.
228
"One day a man was asked if there were any true atheists. Do you think, he replied, there are any true Christians?"
~Denis Diderot, Pensées Philosophiques, 1746
Christianity, like any religion codified by holy books of "Revealed Truth" is filled with hundreds of laws, many blatantly contradictory & many equally . Even the most faithful of Christians pick & choose that which comforts them & reject that which disturbs them. Has any modern Christian obeyed the injunction to "not suffer a witch to live?" How about Christ's teachings on how slaves & masters are to behave toward each other?
If you read the synoptic Gospels (Mark, Matthew, & Luke), you'll see Jesus called the Son of Man. It isn't until John, whose writings are considered to have been added in the 2nd century, that the change to Jesus as son of God is made. Since the original Jewish requirements for the Messiah rely on him being a direct descendant of King David, both Luke and Matthew construct elaborate chains of lineage to show that Joseph was a direct descendant of King David (different lineages, BTW). That more than implies that the writers of the second and third Gospels clearly saw Jesus as the son of Joseph, thus fulfilling the prophesy. BTW, the author of the Gospel of John is believed to have lived in the second century in either Greece or Egypt, & had never been to the Holy Land, since he got so much of its geography wrong, putting towns on the wrong side of lakes, for example.
~Denis Diderot, Pensées Philosophiques, 1746
Christianity, like any religion codified by holy books of "Revealed Truth" is filled with hundreds of laws, many blatantly contradictory & many equally . Even the most faithful of Christians pick & choose that which comforts them & reject that which disturbs them. Has any modern Christian obeyed the injunction to "not suffer a witch to live?" How about Christ's teachings on how slaves & masters are to behave toward each other?
If you read the synoptic Gospels (Mark, Matthew, & Luke), you'll see Jesus called the Son of Man. It isn't until John, whose writings are considered to have been added in the 2nd century, that the change to Jesus as son of God is made. Since the original Jewish requirements for the Messiah rely on him being a direct descendant of King David, both Luke and Matthew construct elaborate chains of lineage to show that Joseph was a direct descendant of King David (different lineages, BTW). That more than implies that the writers of the second and third Gospels clearly saw Jesus as the son of Joseph, thus fulfilling the prophesy. BTW, the author of the Gospel of John is believed to have lived in the second century in either Greece or Egypt, & had never been to the Holy Land, since he got so much of its geography wrong, putting towns on the wrong side of lakes, for example.
3
Christian doctrine is not just based on the words spoken by Jesus but also on the letters of the Apostle Paul and others. Many of the subjects that Paul expressed strong opinions about were never mentioned by Jesus. For example Jesus never speaks of homosexuality but Paul condemns homosexual behavior and calls it sinful. To deny the writings of Paul is to deny the veracity of the Bible. If Christians seem intolerant at times it is because they are following what they believe is from God.
26
Biblical inerrancy is the root of much evil. If you are a Christian you know that Jesus is God and Paul was a man. One is perfect and the other was flawed. Read your red letters and don't be so cocksure of that God judges as you do.
2
"If Christians seem intolerant at times it is because they are following what they believe is from God".
Replace "Christians" with "Muslims" and you have AlQaeda and ISIS. You just gave AlQaeda and ISIS the justification for their actions, and based on your Christian belief, you must also condone their actions as being given from God.
Replace "Christians" with "Muslims" and you have AlQaeda and ISIS. You just gave AlQaeda and ISIS the justification for their actions, and based on your Christian belief, you must also condone their actions as being given from God.
5
I thought you said "the writings of Paul", but then one sentence later it is "from God". Please clarify.
3
I'll say it plainly: it's about time. Let them reap what they've sown, all these years, and elections. Live your " religion" and beliefs all you wish, BUT live also with the consequences. Willful ignorance and Jesus won't buy much at the supermarket, or pay your rent. Good luck.
407
You said it in a nutshell.
Christians don't have a lock on caring for the least among us or loving our neighbors. Millions of Muslims and Jews and atheists want to help the poor, care for the sick and elderly, and create a country which helps all its citizens - not just the richest.
But that's harder to do now that a few thousand downtrodden whites aligned with hypocritical conservative Christians to elect an unqualified, unChristian, undeserving man as president.
They should have known better, and they're going to suffer for it, maybe more than the rest of us (Democrats, Clinton voters). They got conned. Maybe "believers" are just too gullible.
But that's harder to do now that a few thousand downtrodden whites aligned with hypocritical conservative Christians to elect an unqualified, unChristian, undeserving man as president.
They should have known better, and they're going to suffer for it, maybe more than the rest of us (Democrats, Clinton voters). They got conned. Maybe "believers" are just too gullible.
530
Amen!
2
Your husband's aunt was right. You are cafeteria Catholics.
"Reasonable people can disagree on the moment when human life begins,"
but reasonable Catholics believe it begins at the moment of conception.
Disagree if you like; but don't call yourself a Catholic.
"I don't see my own commitment to protecting a woman's legal right to choose as a contradiction of my religious practice."
But it IS a contradiction of the teaching of your church.
I don't ask you to be right, or to be Catholic. I ask you to be consistent.
Catholicism is not a democracy. There are rules if you want to join the club.
Have you considered joining the Episcopals? They look Catholic, but anything goes.
"Reasonable people can disagree on the moment when human life begins,"
but reasonable Catholics believe it begins at the moment of conception.
Disagree if you like; but don't call yourself a Catholic.
"I don't see my own commitment to protecting a woman's legal right to choose as a contradiction of my religious practice."
But it IS a contradiction of the teaching of your church.
I don't ask you to be right, or to be Catholic. I ask you to be consistent.
Catholicism is not a democracy. There are rules if you want to join the club.
Have you considered joining the Episcopals? They look Catholic, but anything goes.
2
Pope Francis, the leader of the Catholic Church has asked "who am I to judge"? So, I ask you: "who are you to judge"? As Jesus said: "judge not, lest you be judged ".
Ed,
Thank you for confirming that the whole "life begins at conception" thing is nothing more than a religious belief that Catholics and evangelicals are trying to place into law, forcing it upon the rest of us in their attempt to create a theocracy.
Thank you for confirming that the whole "life begins at conception" thing is nothing more than a religious belief that Catholics and evangelicals are trying to place into law, forcing it upon the rest of us in their attempt to create a theocracy.
6
So the only test of being a Christian is abortion. Funny, I can't recall anything Jesus said about abortion.
5
"They’d put Vladimir Putin in the White House if he promised to overturn Roe v. Wade."
Exactly. And that wouldn't solve anything and leave us with Putin as president. So many Christians are willing to elect the Devil himself to stop a sin. If these Christians had more faith they could demonstrate to the world a way of life that would make abortion truly unthinkable. Stop trying to stop people from sinning and start changing the world so sin has no place in it.
Exactly. And that wouldn't solve anything and leave us with Putin as president. So many Christians are willing to elect the Devil himself to stop a sin. If these Christians had more faith they could demonstrate to the world a way of life that would make abortion truly unthinkable. Stop trying to stop people from sinning and start changing the world so sin has no place in it.
11
Spirituality is a good thing. The moment you institutionalize it into a "religion" it becomes evil. Religion is about power and control.; We are right everyone else is wrong. We have a lock on truth. believe our way or will will burn you to death for heresy. The history of Christianity is filled with dead bodies beyond counting slain by those who claimed only we have the truth. One does not need to belong to an organization to be spiritual nor you need some intermediary to connect you to the object of your spirituality. Want to speak to your God? Just do it. No need for someone wearing funny robes and silly hats to do it for you. Every since humankind first swung out of the trees he and she have created thousands of Gods and each one was real until someone created the next one and the previous suddenly became obsolete and false. Funny thing that.
10
As for southrrn evangelical christians there is no greater bunch of hypocrits. Take the multi-millionaire Franklin Graham's facebook quote on news of Trump's victory,
" I believe that God’s hand intervened Tuesday night to stop the godless, atheistic progressive agenda from taking control of our country."
In one sentence he portrays his political opponents as God's opponents. So my liking Bernie Sanders makes me godless?
There's a reason the fastest growing religion in this country are "nones". Enough with your southern drawl infused hypocritical mythology. Southern evangelicals are only in it for themselves.
Like my own saintly Catholic mother used to say, "The more God you wear on your sleeve the less room you have for Him in your heart."
Oh yeah and about that old standard, "The South's going to do it again!"
What? Lose?
" I believe that God’s hand intervened Tuesday night to stop the godless, atheistic progressive agenda from taking control of our country."
In one sentence he portrays his political opponents as God's opponents. So my liking Bernie Sanders makes me godless?
There's a reason the fastest growing religion in this country are "nones". Enough with your southern drawl infused hypocritical mythology. Southern evangelicals are only in it for themselves.
Like my own saintly Catholic mother used to say, "The more God you wear on your sleeve the less room you have for Him in your heart."
Oh yeah and about that old standard, "The South's going to do it again!"
What? Lose?
28
Your mom was a very wise woman.
3
Not sure why that statement didn't get his tax exempt status revoked...
4
Since we are told being politically correct is dangerous, let's call it what it is.
The problem we face is Radical Christian Facism.
The problem we face is Radical Christian Facism.
43
No one wants/wanted to turn this into a Christian country. We wanted to restore our Constitution which is conveniently ignored by the democrats to fit their agenda. People did not want big gov't, socialism, illegal immigration or wealth redistribution and that is why President Trump won the electoral vote. P.S. Public schools in the inner cities also stink and the teachers and their unions put the kids last. Their parents should have THE FREEDOM to choose charter schools if they please.
2
Ms. Renkl, an excellent piece of writing on "the Passion of Southern Christians"! On Palm Sunday, today, (the day before Passover) the word "Christian" now has connotations far beyond the ethos of the Christian religion. Angry white Trump voters in red MAGA golf caps are Christians, so are those who castigate and arrest undocumented aliens, mothers, fathers, children, and Southern hospitality is an oxymoron. Indeed, you can love a human being and fear and hate the group that person belongs to.
The 2016 election was an awful anomaly in our democratic history. A Christian business-man, Donald Trump, lacking in Christian values, was voted into his three White Houses (Trump Tower in NYC, The Oval Office in Washington, DC, and Mar-a-Lago, his Palm Beach Versailles). Conservative Christians - misogynists, racists, bigots - don't give a tinker's dam about a woman's legal right to choose what she does with her own body. In the Republican View, ignorant men should have dominion over women's issues. Zygotes are not persons.
Ms. Renkl, you are right, that Republicans can now turn America into a Christian nation. Unaffordable health care, poisoned water, poverty, racism, misogyny, execution of prisoners, remnants of Jim Crow's strange fruit - all of these including betrayal of Christians by a "Christian" President, abound in America - which is why you "never felt lonelier than [you] feel in Donald Trump's America". May Resurrection in practice this Easter not be a vain hope.
The 2016 election was an awful anomaly in our democratic history. A Christian business-man, Donald Trump, lacking in Christian values, was voted into his three White Houses (Trump Tower in NYC, The Oval Office in Washington, DC, and Mar-a-Lago, his Palm Beach Versailles). Conservative Christians - misogynists, racists, bigots - don't give a tinker's dam about a woman's legal right to choose what she does with her own body. In the Republican View, ignorant men should have dominion over women's issues. Zygotes are not persons.
Ms. Renkl, you are right, that Republicans can now turn America into a Christian nation. Unaffordable health care, poisoned water, poverty, racism, misogyny, execution of prisoners, remnants of Jim Crow's strange fruit - all of these including betrayal of Christians by a "Christian" President, abound in America - which is why you "never felt lonelier than [you] feel in Donald Trump's America". May Resurrection in practice this Easter not be a vain hope.
6
There are many kind of Christians who range from left wing Liberation theologians to supporters of right wing dictators like Pinochet. Each believes that Christian values dictate their actions. How can this be when they behave so differently? After all, the the Inquisition was a Christian endeavor who's victims were, in large part, also Christians. What we really have are separate groups of people with conservative and liberal belief systems. It is the belief systems that govern people's actions. Those who are also Christians tend to believe that their moral belief system is based on Christianity. Instead your religion is usually based on where and when you were born. So while the author is correct that conservative Christians can treat gays or immigrants they meet with tolerance, it is mostly because people tend to be less hostile to people they know even if they are different.
Right wing Christians claim they voted for Trump to end abortion to protect the vulnerable. If protection was their real motive, they would realize that cutting off Planned Parenthood's funding will stop health care that prevents miscarriages and other pregnancy related medical problems for women and infants.
A real test could occur if Planned Parenthood split into two complete separate organizations one that provided medical care and another that provided abortions. I think Christian conservatives would still want to cut off funding to both organizations because they are run by Liberals.
Right wing Christians claim they voted for Trump to end abortion to protect the vulnerable. If protection was their real motive, they would realize that cutting off Planned Parenthood's funding will stop health care that prevents miscarriages and other pregnancy related medical problems for women and infants.
A real test could occur if Planned Parenthood split into two complete separate organizations one that provided medical care and another that provided abortions. I think Christian conservatives would still want to cut off funding to both organizations because they are run by Liberals.
8
The single issue voter has placed the GOP strongly in power. The GOP gave them their single issue, abortion or guns, The electorate than forgot that they lost ALL the other issues, education, healthcare and EPA, among many others.
The result is the GOP control the whole, it is uncertain that we the citizens will fare well.
The result is the GOP control the whole, it is uncertain that we the citizens will fare well.
11
You can't impose morality on people. I consider myself having very high moral standards, yet I favor a woman's right to choose. I am not pro-abortion. I don't think there's a human being that favors abortion over life. However there's a myriad of reasons why a woman has an abortion and I cannot judge anyone for their reasons. I cannot impose my moral beliefs on anyone. That's why I favor a woman's right to choose.
24
I spent my freshman year in college a long, long time ago, in Richmond. A friend was showing me around the city and I noticed there were churches on almost every street corner.
"Yes,"she said. People are either great sinners or holy saints."
"Yes,"she said. People are either great sinners or holy saints."
4
Growing resistance against Trump? That's doubtful. Trump's ego won't allow it. The attack on Syria is a case in point. It appeals to the middle, including a secular liberal like myself when I am in unguarded moments. Trump will abandon what people thought of as his "principles" to appeal to the middle. And guess what... conservative christians will vote for him again.
3
Before he was "president" Trump, he swindled $7,000 from me via his "University." I joined the lawsuit and his $25 million settling payout is proof enough for me that he is the farthest from a Christian and he knows it. He no more knows about two corinthians than he does about the two amendment. Call it like it is: Trump is a I Timothy 6:10 Christian, and I'm a proud Darrell 3:16 atheist.
14
Yes, disillusionment. And so it often goes for those whose lives are based on illusions.
4
It's a sad reality, that the main issue which continues to prevent the USA's hourly workers, from unifying, and forming an effective third party, for hourly workers (as in Europe) is racism.
A racism spawned by the reluctance of white Christian workers, to accept the science of evolution, because evolution proves that racist white workers, all had African ancestry.
And, Christianity teaches females, that, due to the sin of Eve, they have to be subordinate to their male-counterparts, forever.
So, until females, either join female friendly religions, or, start their own -- most notably in the South, their Christianreligion is their own worst enemy.
And, Christianity has the main responsibiliy, for racism lingering around, for as long as it has, in the USA.
A racism spawned by the reluctance of white Christian workers, to accept the science of evolution, because evolution proves that racist white workers, all had African ancestry.
And, Christianity teaches females, that, due to the sin of Eve, they have to be subordinate to their male-counterparts, forever.
So, until females, either join female friendly religions, or, start their own -- most notably in the South, their Christianreligion is their own worst enemy.
And, Christianity has the main responsibiliy, for racism lingering around, for as long as it has, in the USA.
9
Conservative Christians use their political views to inform their religious beliefs. Not the reverse.
15
Thank you, Ms. Renkl, for an extraordinary column. I'll be sharing it with my friends, re-reading it, and thinking about it for a long time.
Cheers.
Cheers.
2
The photo says it all: put your hands together, close your eyes, maybe kneel down. Nothing fails like prayer.
5
Trumps hypocrisy about religion has been apparent from day one. When he was going through his 'rebirth, walking around with his mothers bible, only fool people who go weak in the knees when discussing their lord. Trumps famous line that he couldn't reveal his favorite verse because it was too personal, should have been a sign 'from the devil'. I think that the reason Melenia is kept out of the limelight, is because she knows too well, that he is pulling the cover over everyones eyes.
6
Separation of church and state, remember?????
9
No, the part of Jesus's message that conservative American Christians ignore is what he said AFTER "that which you HAVE done..." namely, "that which you have NOT done for the of these...you have NOT done for me."
The first part made it optional, bonus points as it were, so that you could still choose to ignore the poor, sick and oppressed as long as you professed your faith in Jesus.
But the second part makes it mandatory; you cannot turn your back, and you cannot make the excuse that helping those in need who are different from you is an infringement on your freedom of religion. Because if you do, Jesus himself will tell you "be gone from me" (read it yourself in your Bible). Your religion requires you to treat those who are different from you as your brethren.
The first part made it optional, bonus points as it were, so that you could still choose to ignore the poor, sick and oppressed as long as you professed your faith in Jesus.
But the second part makes it mandatory; you cannot turn your back, and you cannot make the excuse that helping those in need who are different from you is an infringement on your freedom of religion. Because if you do, Jesus himself will tell you "be gone from me" (read it yourself in your Bible). Your religion requires you to treat those who are different from you as your brethren.
459
I think a better title might have been The Compassion of Christians. With the start of Holy Week upon us, it would have been very appropriate to write a positive article about Christianity rather than this negative one. You find fault with Christians, but in reality we are the ones who volunteer and assist those who are in dire straits. We have food pantries, homeless shelters and those who are ready and able to assist the poor and needy. We are very welcoming but one must ask for help.
We love immigrants but legal ones. We love refugees but we must have some control as to those who enter our country for the safety and security of our citizens. Germany has open borders and look at what that country has become.
Tomorrow is Palm Sunday and millions of Christians around the world will be attending services. This is a very important time for them and they are getting ready for Easter which is the most important time on the Christian calendar. The Christians I know and worship with are kind, decent people who are generous and giving. They talk the talk and walk the walk. Isn't that what Christianity is all about. I think people should take another look at Christianity and Christians and see that we are fairly nice people who care for others.
We love immigrants but legal ones. We love refugees but we must have some control as to those who enter our country for the safety and security of our citizens. Germany has open borders and look at what that country has become.
Tomorrow is Palm Sunday and millions of Christians around the world will be attending services. This is a very important time for them and they are getting ready for Easter which is the most important time on the Christian calendar. The Christians I know and worship with are kind, decent people who are generous and giving. They talk the talk and walk the walk. Isn't that what Christianity is all about. I think people should take another look at Christianity and Christians and see that we are fairly nice people who care for others.
39
Can you believe that non christians are also very nice people who care for others?
15
The easy good that people do does not remove from them the smell of fear and the smallness of spirit that gets exhibited in other ways. Doing good does not make you "all good." That's the problem, isn't it?
12
Hi, WMK -
I notice you live in NYC. This column is specifically about "Southern" Christians, as the title makes plain.
As for the qualifiers in your comment that begin in the second paragraph, I don't believe Jesus would be in accord. I don't recall that he made a distinction between legal and illegal aliens. Nor do I recall him talking about the need to "control" refugees.
This might be a good time to remember that the Holy Bible was written during extremely violent times when women were, in the remains of the Western Roman Empire, regarded almost as property. The "good" book approves of slavery and outlines a number of circumstances under which God wants parents to kill their children.
Christianity and Christians have done a great deal of good in the world and continue to do so. Christianity and Christians have also perpetrated a great deal of evil and arguably continue to do so. But one thing is certain, especially this week: it is difficult to live one's life according to the message of Jesus, but the world would certainly be a better place if we all did so.
Peace.
I notice you live in NYC. This column is specifically about "Southern" Christians, as the title makes plain.
As for the qualifiers in your comment that begin in the second paragraph, I don't believe Jesus would be in accord. I don't recall that he made a distinction between legal and illegal aliens. Nor do I recall him talking about the need to "control" refugees.
This might be a good time to remember that the Holy Bible was written during extremely violent times when women were, in the remains of the Western Roman Empire, regarded almost as property. The "good" book approves of slavery and outlines a number of circumstances under which God wants parents to kill their children.
Christianity and Christians have done a great deal of good in the world and continue to do so. Christianity and Christians have also perpetrated a great deal of evil and arguably continue to do so. But one thing is certain, especially this week: it is difficult to live one's life according to the message of Jesus, but the world would certainly be a better place if we all did so.
Peace.
11
I spent 8 years in Colorado Springs, a city sustained by evangelical Christianity, the military and now, weed. When I arrived there I was a cradle Episcopalian, regular church goer, committed to the Christian message.
After watching the judgmentalism, the discrimination and the outright hate of my fellow "Christians" who were quick to display that artificial "Southern hospitality", I have given up on the church, and for that matter, on Christianity.
Jesus would not recognize the people that act in his name, except perhaps to brand them as Pharisees, so consumed with their own "holiness" so as to lose sight of the message.
After watching the judgmentalism, the discrimination and the outright hate of my fellow "Christians" who were quick to display that artificial "Southern hospitality", I have given up on the church, and for that matter, on Christianity.
Jesus would not recognize the people that act in his name, except perhaps to brand them as Pharisees, so consumed with their own "holiness" so as to lose sight of the message.
25
Suffice it to say that Evangelical Christians, including the current far-right Catholic movement within the greater Church, helped greatly elect a man to the Presidency of the United States. And that man, by all measures and evidence, is an embarrassment to the true teaching of Christ.
16
Why are discussions of Southern Christians always about whites, but rarely do these articles rarely directly make that point? There were millions of Southern African American Christians who voted for Hillary Clinton. Articles about white Southerners that ignore race cannot give a genuine analysis the politics of white Southern Christians,
For religious Southern voters expecting trump to be next best thing to the rapture, he will be their tribulation. And ours.
9
As a fellow Catholic living in the South, I'd like to remind you that many so-called Christians don't even consider us to be Christian. We are the 'other' they fear to our backs while smiling to our faces.
13
Even as a Godless American, I can understand the Christian opposition to abortion. What I can't understand is why there is such opposition to the number one way to eliminate it. Our joint goal is to have every child brought into this world be wanted and cherished and adored. The only way to make that happen is your full support for family planning in whatever forms possible. Anything less betrays your deepest goal and makes your political stance more about keeping your the least among us in economic bondage.
18
Christianity and politics - like oil and water - were never intended to mix. When they do, you end up with a zombie-like fusion product such as "evangelical Christianity" that is far removed from Christ's original message of peace and love toward all mankind.
7
The dominant characteristics of worldwide Christianity are intransigence and intolerance. What else can you expect from a religion with around 40,000 different sects, each one believing they and they alone truly have The Word?
I keep trying to find some sympathy for the trump supporter, but I just can't. I understand the situation intellectually, but emotionally, I just can't. They wrecked themselves; they wreaked us. This is what they wanted; this is what they got. They own this.
28
I'm a progressive Christian who lived in Texas for five years and couldn't leave fast enough.
Southern Christians brag about their beliefs being "Bible-based", but they have invented some extra principles to make it easier. For example, they claim that we aren't allowed to feed the hungry via the government (We the People!) but only via voluntary charity—as if the method were the point and whether the hungry actually got fed only a side issue.
In fact, many Southern Christianists completely ignore the hardest and most radical part of the gospels—loving your enemies and doing good to those who hate you. They say that Jesus didn't mean NOW, with THESE enemies; he meant in the thousand years between the Second Coming, when only The Good would survive and it wouldn't be so goshdurn HARD to love others.
Southern Christians brag about their beliefs being "Bible-based", but they have invented some extra principles to make it easier. For example, they claim that we aren't allowed to feed the hungry via the government (We the People!) but only via voluntary charity—as if the method were the point and whether the hungry actually got fed only a side issue.
In fact, many Southern Christianists completely ignore the hardest and most radical part of the gospels—loving your enemies and doing good to those who hate you. They say that Jesus didn't mean NOW, with THESE enemies; he meant in the thousand years between the Second Coming, when only The Good would survive and it wouldn't be so goshdurn HARD to love others.
809
It would seem, if you listen to Conservative Christians, that in his Sermon on the Mount, Jesus confiscated all of the loaves and fish that had been given free to his followers & criticized them for lying about on the hillside when it was the middle of the day and they should all be at work.
Give a man a fish & he'll be fed for the day. Teach him to fish & he will be able to feed himself for his life. Give him religion & he'll starve to death praying for fish.
Give a man a fish & he'll be fed for the day. Teach him to fish & he will be able to feed himself for his life. Give him religion & he'll starve to death praying for fish.
10
Those one plank voters need to consider that Trump's aggressive deregulation of chemicals and pollution dumping is likely to result in a whole lot of spontaneous miscarriages, fetal damage, childhood cancers, early parent deaths. And his robbery of essential coverage from his healthcare bill is an abomination for his poorest and oldest supporters. It's a lot of rotten planks that noone will be able to trust walking on.
Yes, the president (his believers) elected IS about to show them what betrayal really looks like.
Yes, the president (his believers) elected IS about to show them what betrayal really looks like.
11
The anti-abortion crusade is a ruse. I know several "Christian" women who have had abortions, but claim Jesus forgave them & now their "mission" is to prevent other women from having abortions. Meanwhile, fathers disappear & don't pay child support, women & children live in poverty while other "children of God" languish in foster homes because no one wants them. Yet these "Christians" support legislators & policies which gut programs for families while supporting corporations. Living in SC I have learned that if you identify yourself to me as a "Christian", I will always watch my back.
31
Self-styled southern "Christians" who have convinced themselves that God selected Donald Trump to lead America have set new standards for gullibility and stupidity. Really, they should be embarrassed. I feel more anger than pity for them though, as they continue their quest to transition America into a theocracy.
15
The modern South is more shackled by today's distorted Christianity than when I grew up here on the buckle of the Southern Bible Belt. The 50's post-McCarthy knee-jerk response of adding two small words ("under God") to our pledge of allegiance put a national seal of approval on religious discrimination. Forcing loyalty to a spiritual creed turned religion into a test of patriotism.
I want the freedom from religious tyranny established by the creators of our democracy. I want freedom FROM religion.
I want the freedom from religious tyranny established by the creators of our democracy. I want freedom FROM religion.
1288
Have you joined the Freedom from Religion Foundation? If not, put your money where your mouth is.
3
Yes, my parents simply pledged allegiance to the flag; I pledge also to the republic for which it stands; my children mouth in addition, "under God". A fourth implicit version now runs, "and to the Republicans, under God, for which it stands."
More seriously, I thank Ms Renkl for her very moving commentary.
More seriously, I thank Ms Renkl for her very moving commentary.
Apparently, you do. Not because the Constitution gives you the right not to be a "believer," but because it appears you choose not to be one. It's kind of like the 'off' button on the TV remote control, isn't it.
3
If you really object to abortion, then get to work promoting safe, effective, inexpensive and widely-available birth control and science-based sex education. If all babies were wanted and all sex were consensual, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Until that time, the best solution is to stop the egg and the sperm from ever meeting in the first place rather than destroying them once they have. (No replies about abstinence, please.)
1419
Sorry to break your request, but studies show again and again that taking vows of abstinence only delay onset of sexual intercourse among teens by about 9 months (& many fill in the time with oral and anal sex). And, given their ignorance about sex, they are less likely to use protection, more likely to get pregnant, and more likely to catch diseases when their teenage hormones override their vows. A friend of mine, now a counselor at an Ivy League university, used to be social worker for a women's clinic. She told me (without violating identities) that a large percentage of her patients were Catholic teens dragged in by their mothers. In one case, she recognized the mother of a 15-year-old girl as a national organizer of Operation Rescue. The woman traveled 50 miles, used a false name, & declined counseling, but my friend had seen her crying "Don't kill your baby" at frightened teens when at regional meetings in a clinic the woman protested at daily. The day after her daughter's abortion, she was back at the other clinic's fence leading chants of "Murderer."
There is an old joke that goes "What's another name for Abstinance? Motherhood."
Ghandi once commented: "I like your Christ. I don't like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ."
There is an old joke that goes "What's another name for Abstinance? Motherhood."
Ghandi once commented: "I like your Christ. I don't like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ."
12
Well said. Good common sense advice.
But always remember this, those of you that oppose abortion. It is the woman's choice to choose. It's none of your business. You decide what's best for you, and let others decide what's best for them. It's really a very simple concept. DO NOT IMPOSE YOUR BELIEFS OR YOUR RELIGION ON OTHERS THAT ARE NOT INTERESTED.
But always remember this, those of you that oppose abortion. It is the woman's choice to choose. It's none of your business. You decide what's best for you, and let others decide what's best for them. It's really a very simple concept. DO NOT IMPOSE YOUR BELIEFS OR YOUR RELIGION ON OTHERS THAT ARE NOT INTERESTED.
14
You're calling for birth control and science-based education, saying that we should prevent the sperm and egg from meeting in the first place, and then saying no to abstinence. That logic doesn't fit together. There's no science-based way to guarantee that a sperm and egg don't meet as a result of sex except abstinence.
2
I'm with her. Please let us show our kinder more gentler selves.
As an agnostic, I can wish that humanity practices as Jesus preached. Liberty and justice for all.
As an agnostic, I can wish that humanity practices as Jesus preached. Liberty and justice for all.
401
Pam, I am 67 years old. I have been kind and courteous to Republican all my life but it stopped the moment Trump was elected. I have reached out to Republicans. I have tried to reason with them. I willed myself to believe they were good people who wanted a good world for everyone. I am willing to admit I was wrong. They are evil people who hide under the cloak of religion. They are not tolerant of other religions which are not their own. They do not cherish and hold dear The Bible, The Constitution, nor the Bill of Rights. I'm agnostic also. That doesn't mean I don't know evil when I see it. Right now, I see a bunch of people who are willfully ignorant about just how evil they are. They are dangerous for the entire planet and for the future of our species.
6
I think that you have your assessment right. This election exposed a tribalism which Jesus' message opposed. His parable of the Good Samaritan keeps coming to my mind; it challenges us to act righteously towards the stranger; to expand on the notion of,"Who is my neighbor?" Sanctioning hate for "Those people," whoever those people in the out-group are, shows our lack of charity. Masking a lack of charity with "hospitality" has another name, hypocrisy. And hypocrisy will make us feel ashamed.
11
Our country is based on the separation of church and state. The more people try to blur those lines, the more bifurcated and divided we become. There is no 'religion' on earth that has a right to impose it's beliefs on me, and that will be my religion until my dying day.
18
With all due respect to consider "caring for the least among us and loving our neighbors as ourselves" is not only a Christian practice. It is found in our human ability to reason.
11
Margaret Renkl is right on the money--the Abominable Showman is demonstrating every day what betrayal really looks like. Nonetheless, with one hand he takes away healthcare, clean air and water, and the tatters of a safety net, but with the other he gives back tokens of America´s greatness: a wall, out-of-control militarism and so many other good things. It isn´t at all clear if Ms. Renkl´s friends and neighbors will buy it but I tremble to think that in November of next year we will find out.
6
The problem with conservative Christians is they believe in freedom of religion as long as it is their religion,they have no room for people of other faiths.
37
"Watching Christians put him in the White House has completely broken my heart".
I could of wrote that line about my family here in Chicago. This election has exposed so much for me I cant go to church anymore.
I could of wrote that line about my family here in Chicago. This election has exposed so much for me I cant go to church anymore.
11
Please go. If they never hear a decenting voice from within they will never realize that their beliefs and actions do not match.
1
Religious people are not more ethical than nonreligious people.
1512
I believe there have been studies that reveal that the most ethical group in American are actually Atheists- perhaps because there is no one to absolve them but themselves, so they take more responsibility for their actions. More likely it is because a higher percentage of the better educated are atheists and they are less likely to be driven by economic desperation.
6
Religious people seem to have a peace and contentment that is often missing from the non religious people. I am speaking from first-hand knowledge.
1
Same deal with drug users until their addiction turns ugly. The contentment comes from being released from the terror of the logical conclusion of individual insignificance next to the unfathomable vastness of the universe and, in some cases, from the agony of having to make ones own decisions.
Your statement is pretty sweeping. I've known lots of spiritual people that are religious in their own way- but they are age of enlightenment religious and don't need to reject science and hold onto superstitions to experience the comfort of religion.
I am a Quaker and some Quakers are even atheists. Most don't have a belief system that rejects science and I believe many are relatively contented.
Your statement is pretty sweeping. I've known lots of spiritual people that are religious in their own way- but they are age of enlightenment religious and don't need to reject science and hold onto superstitions to experience the comfort of religion.
I am a Quaker and some Quakers are even atheists. Most don't have a belief system that rejects science and I believe many are relatively contented.
5
Here I thought Christian voters felt comfortable with Trump because they could be certain that this man can't possibly be Satan because, Lord knows, He'd have come up with a better disguise.
But seriously folks, the Christian right has been deceived by another Satan- the Republican propaganda machine that has convinced them that unless abortion is a crime the government is promoting it and if it is made a crime it will disappear.
Of course it won't disappear if legal abortions aren't available- just as alcohol didn't disappear when that "immoral" drug was made illegal. But bad abortions are even more catastrophic than bad moonshine.
Logic should lead to the conclusion that the best way to make abortions rare is to assure that women have easy access to birth control so unwanted pregnancies were reduced to a rarity. But this isn't about logic, deep down, it is about wanting the government to confirm religious beliefs. It isn't about saving babies, it's about achieving the comfort of having your beliefs enforced by the government therefore legitimizing them. It is about having the government enforce religion.
But seriously folks, the Christian right has been deceived by another Satan- the Republican propaganda machine that has convinced them that unless abortion is a crime the government is promoting it and if it is made a crime it will disappear.
Of course it won't disappear if legal abortions aren't available- just as alcohol didn't disappear when that "immoral" drug was made illegal. But bad abortions are even more catastrophic than bad moonshine.
Logic should lead to the conclusion that the best way to make abortions rare is to assure that women have easy access to birth control so unwanted pregnancies were reduced to a rarity. But this isn't about logic, deep down, it is about wanting the government to confirm religious beliefs. It isn't about saving babies, it's about achieving the comfort of having your beliefs enforced by the government therefore legitimizing them. It is about having the government enforce religion.
1597
It is curious how one of the rallying cries in the formation of your country and it's democracy was freedom of religion, was soon transformed into freedom for me to have mine but yours, not so much. It is not unlike the first sentence in the Hippocratic Oath "First do no harm" that is daily ignored by some doctors.
5
Yet they Republicans claim they want government OUT of their lives, when they really want it IN their lives.
3
Similarly, the government forcing Christian bakers and photographers to help celebrate gay marriages "isn't about" cakes and photos for gays, which they can easily get down the street, "it's about the comfort of having your beliefs enforced by the government...It is about having the government enforce religion," i.e. enforce one point of view against another. No doubt, Mr Haigh, you and your liberal bubble buddies (well?) are outraged by such enforcement.
1
The Founders gave us freedom of religion and freedom FROM religion, something too many professing Christian values, or at least what they deem to be Christian values, forget.
122
I too know some single-issue voters, northern Christians. That path is easy: become outraged about the "killing" of what is assumed to be a healthy, beautiful baby (what monster could wish such a death?) and vote accordingly. Such a focus has none of the messiness of considering immigration, school funding, the complex issues surrounding poverty (and the violence one often finds in poor areas); abortion voting always views the "victim" as completely pure and innocent, the rescuer/voter as heroic and gallant.
Yet, one can hardly be truly "pro-life" by voting to turn refugees back to violence and death, to allow capital punishment, to cut the ill off from life-saving medical care, or to deprive poor women of access to contraceptive help or maternity care. True faith-based voting, which IMHO is a duty for all people of faith, requires exploring one's full beliefs as told in sacred texts (whatever they may be) then comparing these beliefs to the range of ideas and policies espoused by various candidates. Single-issue voting has only the veneer of being faith-based. It is not. It is an easy path to self-righteous satisfaction, nothing more.
Yet, one can hardly be truly "pro-life" by voting to turn refugees back to violence and death, to allow capital punishment, to cut the ill off from life-saving medical care, or to deprive poor women of access to contraceptive help or maternity care. True faith-based voting, which IMHO is a duty for all people of faith, requires exploring one's full beliefs as told in sacred texts (whatever they may be) then comparing these beliefs to the range of ideas and policies espoused by various candidates. Single-issue voting has only the veneer of being faith-based. It is not. It is an easy path to self-righteous satisfaction, nothing more.
176
I am always amazed by liberals who have compassion for vicious murderers on death row, but none for unborn children in the womb.
Perhaps abortion is the modern version of child sacrifice and a sacrament of the hardcore Left.
Perhaps abortion is the modern version of child sacrifice and a sacrament of the hardcore Left.
5
Until I left the South over 25 years ago, I had not recognized these traits as clearly as Margaret Renkl has. From afar, though, I began to see how contorted our behavior is about such matters as politics and religion. For some reason, most Southern Christians cannot grasp the simple message of Jesus. Instead, they twist the message and practice their faith within the framework of what I believe is our cultural deprivation. For we have yet to come to terms with our history and ourselves. Since my return to the South two years ago, I've observed enough to believe I'm on to something. It is not a hopeful conclusion.
156
This is powerful writing. My hat is off to you. I'll be looking forward to seeing more from your pen, or should I say, keyboard.
67
I take issue with so-called Southern Hospitality. Having spent 48 of my 59 years in the South after moving from the North, I can earnestly say that Southern Hospitality is a ruse predicated on disingenuousness. To say, "Y'all come back now," is only half the phrasing. The rest of it is "...just not real soon, bless your heart." The same fake hospitality extends to the supposed Christianity of the South in that it is predicated on ardent self-righteousness which obviates the ability of Southern Christians to truly pursue true Christianity - to care for the least of us, to turn the either cheek, to refrain from judging. The entire culture is a farce. And, no wonder when it is a culture with its roots in the most abhorrent practice of its antebellum "peculiar institution." If you can excuse that based on religion, you can achieve anything with religion.
568
Yeah I agree, my experience is that the belief that one is deeply hospitable permits the passage of deep judgement against those failing to uphold the rules of a hospitable interaction. Thus outsiders are ostracized and deviation punished, but never does the self-image of one's own benevolent hospitality falter.
35
Your observations are right on. I would only add that when you hear a Southern Christian woman start a sentence with, "Bless her little heart," she is about to skewer someone in a most unChristian way.
72
I am a conservative Christian and I was horrified to see so many of my friends fall in line and vote for him. I often said "What does it profit a man to gain a Supreme Court justice and lose his soul?" Being pro-life means caring for the whole life of children, the elderly, the sick, the disabled, the poor, and the disenfranchised. This man regularly disregards every one of those with each executive order he signs and the legislation he supports. So I would add that it is a lonely time to be an anti-Trump Christian, conservative or otherwise, regardless of where one lives. As for what this Supreme Court justice cost us? Too much. He cost us our integrity. He cost us mercy and compassion. He cost us our souls.
1090
I grew up, maybe a generation earlier, in pretty much the same environment that Ms. Renkl describes, except mine was traditional Protestant. It's thus ironic that my faith is best described by a scientist about my age rather than theologians and preachers. Here's what Freeman Dyson wrote in the course of reviewing a religious book by a fellow scientist named John Polkinghorne, who seems to be a spiritual descendant of the renowned C. S. Lewis:
"I am myself a Christian, a member of a community that preserves an ancient heritage of great literature and great music, provides help and counsel to young and old when they are in trouble, educates children in moral responsibility, and worships God in its own fashion. But I find Polkinghorne’s theology altogether too narrow for my taste. I have no use for a theology that claims to know the answers to deep questions but bases its arguments on the beliefs of a single tribe. I am a practicing Christian but not a believing Christian. To me, to worship God means to recognize that mind and intelligence are woven into the fabric of our universe in a way that altogether surpasses our comprehension."
"I am myself a Christian, a member of a community that preserves an ancient heritage of great literature and great music, provides help and counsel to young and old when they are in trouble, educates children in moral responsibility, and worships God in its own fashion. But I find Polkinghorne’s theology altogether too narrow for my taste. I have no use for a theology that claims to know the answers to deep questions but bases its arguments on the beliefs of a single tribe. I am a practicing Christian but not a believing Christian. To me, to worship God means to recognize that mind and intelligence are woven into the fabric of our universe in a way that altogether surpasses our comprehension."
103
Two giants in the Black struggle for racial justice shared their views on white christians:
Frederick Douglass wrote in 1845, “…between the Christianity of this land, and the Christianity of Christ, I recognize the widest possible difference—so wide, that to receive the one as good, pure, and holy, is of necessity to reject the other as bad, corrupt, and wicked. To be the friend of one, is of necessity to be the enemy of the other….I can see no reason, but the must deceitful one, for calling the religion of this land Christianity. I look upon it as the climax of misnomers, the boldest of all frauds, and the grossest of all libels. Never was there a clearer case of stealing the livery of the court of heaven to serve the devil in. I am filled with unutterable of loathing when I contemplate the religious pomp and show, together with the horrible inconsistencies, which ever where surround me.”
Dr. King, the iconic prophet, in his famous “Letter from Birmingham Jail” wrote,: “I have traveled the length and breadth of Alabama, Mississippi, and all other southern states. On sweltering summer days and crisp autumn mornings I have looked at the South’s beautiful churches with their lofty spires pointing heavenward. I have beheld the impressive outlines of her massive religious education buildings. Over and over I have found myself asking: ‘What kind of people worship her? Who is their God?.”
The white church, like America writ large, has as its core value, hypocrisy.
Frederick Douglass wrote in 1845, “…between the Christianity of this land, and the Christianity of Christ, I recognize the widest possible difference—so wide, that to receive the one as good, pure, and holy, is of necessity to reject the other as bad, corrupt, and wicked. To be the friend of one, is of necessity to be the enemy of the other….I can see no reason, but the must deceitful one, for calling the religion of this land Christianity. I look upon it as the climax of misnomers, the boldest of all frauds, and the grossest of all libels. Never was there a clearer case of stealing the livery of the court of heaven to serve the devil in. I am filled with unutterable of loathing when I contemplate the religious pomp and show, together with the horrible inconsistencies, which ever where surround me.”
Dr. King, the iconic prophet, in his famous “Letter from Birmingham Jail” wrote,: “I have traveled the length and breadth of Alabama, Mississippi, and all other southern states. On sweltering summer days and crisp autumn mornings I have looked at the South’s beautiful churches with their lofty spires pointing heavenward. I have beheld the impressive outlines of her massive religious education buildings. Over and over I have found myself asking: ‘What kind of people worship her? Who is their God?.”
The white church, like America writ large, has as its core value, hypocrisy.
385
One word: hypochrists. Spellcheck underlines it in red, but when I tried to submit it to the Urban Dictionary after I thought it was my original neologism, I found it's already in there.
Elections do have consequences. As I first heard from a girlfriend with a lovely Missourian drawl, "careful what you wish for."
Elections do have consequences. As I first heard from a girlfriend with a lovely Missourian drawl, "careful what you wish for."
40
Miss Renkle,
You are a wolf in sheep's clothing. Unborn children are the least among us.
I can only imagine what the Son of God would think about an abortion mill and "Christians" who defend this modern day slaughter of innocents in the name of "choice."
Jesus told his apostles: "Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven". An abortionist prevents children from ever seeing the light of day. I trust He will still be able to recognize his own.
You are a wolf in sheep's clothing. Unborn children are the least among us.
I can only imagine what the Son of God would think about an abortion mill and "Christians" who defend this modern day slaughter of innocents in the name of "choice."
Jesus told his apostles: "Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven". An abortionist prevents children from ever seeing the light of day. I trust He will still be able to recognize his own.
8
The words of Jesus that you quote (essentially, send the children to me in heaven) sounds more like an acceptance of abortion than a condemnation.
And that interpretation, I would posit, is more in keeping with the Jesus I was taught about as a cradle RC - one who was kind and good and would understand and sympathize with any woman faced with all the pressures and realities that can drive one to make such a very difficult decision.
And that interpretation, I would posit, is more in keeping with the Jesus I was taught about as a cradle RC - one who was kind and good and would understand and sympathize with any woman faced with all the pressures and realities that can drive one to make such a very difficult decision.
17
Eric, the Republican policy of defunding family planning in the US and around the world will have the effect of increasing abortion numbers by hundreds of thousands, if not millions. Is that what you want? Why can't you supposed anti-abortion people seem to grasp this simple fact?
24
So I don't understand. That zygote is a child but a child that will never see god? Why not?
Seems to me he'd carry all those pure perfect human zygotes straight to his side in heaven.
Seems to me he'd carry all those pure perfect human zygotes straight to his side in heaven.
6
As a Christian, the Person I like to listen to is Jesus: give to Caesar the things that are Caesar's... And to God, that which is God's. I wish my fellow Christian Americans would see they are being used by politicians over one issue in particular about which the Bible is silent (abortion). EVERY other sin, including daughters raping their fathers (!) is described and proscribed. Does anyone really believe that abortion did not exist over the thousands of years the Bible was written? The Bible is silent probably because life begins when God breathes His breath into the clay (Adam's "birth" as described in Genesis). But even if we disagree on when life begins, we need to stop buying into wars and "capital punishment" and promoting other ways of killing people so as to protect zygotes! We are going to suffer as a nation for closing our eyes to the core truth about DJT's character, even understood by his colleagues: he is a liar. And who is The Father of Lies? <sigh> Yes, Satan, the lover of death.
125
Meg,
I agree with this letter and your response to it with the exception of one point. You said the bible doesn't deal with the issue of abortion. I disagree.
I have yet to find in conversation with any Christian, northern or southern, anyone with an opinion on Numbers chapter 5. No one seems to have a clue regarding it's contents.
As I understand it, this chapter describes an abortion ritual condoned by God. God instructed Moses to teach the Isrealites this ritual. Zondervan NIV softens the text in its notes on 5:21 by calling the results of the ritual on a pregnant woman a miscarriage. Is an intentional miscarriage not an abortion?
Politically speaking, why is it such a stretch for Republican Christians to agree with Christian Democrats that abortion is not a contradiction of God's will? It seems to me that if God, in His infinite wisdom, would instruct and condone such practice in His temple at the hands of His priest simply to satisfy the insecurities of jealous husbands that we as Christians would certainly have moral cover to allow abortion in cases of rape, incest, or health of pregnant women.
I agree with this letter and your response to it with the exception of one point. You said the bible doesn't deal with the issue of abortion. I disagree.
I have yet to find in conversation with any Christian, northern or southern, anyone with an opinion on Numbers chapter 5. No one seems to have a clue regarding it's contents.
As I understand it, this chapter describes an abortion ritual condoned by God. God instructed Moses to teach the Isrealites this ritual. Zondervan NIV softens the text in its notes on 5:21 by calling the results of the ritual on a pregnant woman a miscarriage. Is an intentional miscarriage not an abortion?
Politically speaking, why is it such a stretch for Republican Christians to agree with Christian Democrats that abortion is not a contradiction of God's will? It seems to me that if God, in His infinite wisdom, would instruct and condone such practice in His temple at the hands of His priest simply to satisfy the insecurities of jealous husbands that we as Christians would certainly have moral cover to allow abortion in cases of rape, incest, or health of pregnant women.
5
Numbers 5: God recommends that a man take his cheating wife to a rabbi so that he can give her a potion and a curse to force her to lose the baby. Sounds like God advocating an abortion to me, though admittedly Old Testament.
8
I think Thomas Jefferson had the right idea: cut all the mystical mumbo-jumbo from the "Good Book" and just keep the "Do Unto Others" and "Whatsoever you did to the least of these you did unto me" parts.
Oh, and the Good Samaritan story. Where is that in the GOP 2016 platform? (Hint: it's missing)
https://www.amazon.com/Jefferson-Bible-Thomas/dp/0807077143/ref=sr_1_1?i...
Oh, and the Good Samaritan story. Where is that in the GOP 2016 platform? (Hint: it's missing)
https://www.amazon.com/Jefferson-Bible-Thomas/dp/0807077143/ref=sr_1_1?i...
91
This is a fascinating account of the seeming contradictions in the views of southern Christians, and as such, it definitely humanizes them for this Massachusetts liberal.
But I have one quibble with the writer. She appears to favor open borders. I not only strongly oppose open borders, I would greatly reduce legal immigration, as Barbara Jordan recommended when she ran a commission on immigration under the Clinton Administration. She also recommended strict enforcement of immigration laws which basically hasn't happened since the Reagan amnesty of '86.
Why would a liberal oppose ad lib immigration?
1. because it hurts working Americans. According to figures from the National Academy of Sciences, mass immigration has resulted in an annual transfer of half a trillion dollars from low wage Americans to the owners of the businesses they work for, because the resulting oversupply of cheap labor enables reducing wages.
2. It's bad for the environment. We're the major industrialized nation with the greatest per capita greenhouse emissions. Moving people from almost anywhere else to the US boosts greenhouse emissions.
3. Mass immigration of the largely low/no-skilled immigrants who predominate results in a fiscal drain of nearly $300 billion annually (a tax of ~$900 per US citizen, yearly), according to the National Academy of Sciences.
http://cis.org/NAS-Study-Workers-and-Taxpayers-Lose-Businesses-Benefit
But I have one quibble with the writer. She appears to favor open borders. I not only strongly oppose open borders, I would greatly reduce legal immigration, as Barbara Jordan recommended when she ran a commission on immigration under the Clinton Administration. She also recommended strict enforcement of immigration laws which basically hasn't happened since the Reagan amnesty of '86.
Why would a liberal oppose ad lib immigration?
1. because it hurts working Americans. According to figures from the National Academy of Sciences, mass immigration has resulted in an annual transfer of half a trillion dollars from low wage Americans to the owners of the businesses they work for, because the resulting oversupply of cheap labor enables reducing wages.
2. It's bad for the environment. We're the major industrialized nation with the greatest per capita greenhouse emissions. Moving people from almost anywhere else to the US boosts greenhouse emissions.
3. Mass immigration of the largely low/no-skilled immigrants who predominate results in a fiscal drain of nearly $300 billion annually (a tax of ~$900 per US citizen, yearly), according to the National Academy of Sciences.
http://cis.org/NAS-Study-Workers-and-Taxpayers-Lose-Businesses-Benefit
12
I appreciate Ms. Renkl's article. However, I don't think our Southern Christianity is all that mysterious--or particular to the South. Conservative Christians' approach comes down to a couple of things. First, the notion that we should "Love the sinner and hate the sin." explains why it is possible to be so friendly towards those whose behavior is considered wrong by Biblical standards. Second, the idea that government should address any material lack in people's lives rather than relying upon simple Christian charity is recognized to not be a voluntary form of personal sacrifice in service of another. No, it is government taking by force from one to give to another. That can be called many things, but it isn't Christianity. The fact that government feels compelled to do such things is both an unconstitutional, gross expansion of governmental power never envisioned by our Founding Fathers and a sign of the Christian Church's failure to achieve its God-mandated goal of serving others in a loving, sacrificial manner.
Abortion is certainly a dividing line for many, but, with the exception of Roman Catholics, birth control isn't. I would suggest that a way forward in the never-ending abortion wars lies in that observation, if anyone cares to pursue it.
Thanks,
Abortion is certainly a dividing line for many, but, with the exception of Roman Catholics, birth control isn't. I would suggest that a way forward in the never-ending abortion wars lies in that observation, if anyone cares to pursue it.
Thanks,
4
Just in case any readers think that "Love the sinner and hate the sin." is somehow biblical, it is not. Not only does it not appear anywhere in the scriptures, it is directly contradicted by the teachings and actions of Jesus. Honest theology treats this "love/hate" pairing as an abomination and a heresy.
15
Mr. Hall's support of birth control as a "way forward in the never-ending abortion wars" interests me. His notion of taxes to support social programs as "violence" is a stretch, but I'll entertain it and ask what is the way forward from our (and notably the South's) dependence on those social programs and entitlements. Tom Price and Mick Mulvaney seem to want to go cold turkey: stop the programs and force the people who need them back on private charity. We've seen where that led before -- well-known Southern misery and squalor, which of course still exists seven years into Obamacare. Moral exhortation to the churches, with their limited attendance and resources, seems to be a weak reed here. Have Southern Conservative Christians really got a "way forward"?
12
Even if there were a fact that the government felt compelled to do anything, it wouldn't be unconstitutional. But the notion is nonsense: obviously governments don't feel.
You accept the need today for a standing army. You wouldn't propose disbanding it, and rounding up militias to defend the country. Yet a standing army was anathema to the founding fathers. Times change, and we with it.
Simple Christian charity is insufficient to the needs of modern society. Needs occur at great distances, across cultural divides, at greater speed than informal systems can address.
That's no mere postulate. It's empirical fact. Before social security, 25% of the elderly lived in poverty. Without unemployment insurance, during the Great Depression 25% or more were unemployed. Families camped in Central Park. The great confiscations you so deplore were invented out of great need when simple charity proved, over years, that it wasn't up to the task. Because they exist, that calamity has never been repeated.
Humanity for millennia lived in grinding generalized poverty. Industrialization changed that, but it also brought specific instantaneous poverty. Why is it surprising that a general concern for our fellow man found flower in our elected government to look after the least?
You accept the need today for a standing army. You wouldn't propose disbanding it, and rounding up militias to defend the country. Yet a standing army was anathema to the founding fathers. Times change, and we with it.
Simple Christian charity is insufficient to the needs of modern society. Needs occur at great distances, across cultural divides, at greater speed than informal systems can address.
That's no mere postulate. It's empirical fact. Before social security, 25% of the elderly lived in poverty. Without unemployment insurance, during the Great Depression 25% or more were unemployed. Families camped in Central Park. The great confiscations you so deplore were invented out of great need when simple charity proved, over years, that it wasn't up to the task. Because they exist, that calamity has never been repeated.
Humanity for millennia lived in grinding generalized poverty. Industrialization changed that, but it also brought specific instantaneous poverty. Why is it surprising that a general concern for our fellow man found flower in our elected government to look after the least?
19
There once was a southern, evangelical president. He lived his faith and was a devoted family man who even spoke of resisting temptaions to stray from his wife. He still participates in his church and its Sunday School. He used his power to protect and better life. He even challenged us to make small sacrifices for a greater need.
That was, of course, Jimmy Carter. And he lost re-election to a divorced, secular, west coast actor who would serve two terms. That was the start.
And today, Pope Francis is a strong global moral leader. Pope Francis has expressed, along with condemnation of, yes, abortion, condemnation of the death penalty and of greed. Pope Francis calls on us to be responsible stewards of our one planet and speaks as an educated scientist. Pope Francis asks for care of the sick, the poor, the immigrants and the refugees (regardless of their faith). Pope Francis said that no man who builds a wall can call himself Christian.
So, looking at the big picture, it is clear where christian values voters, southern or not, should logically have found their place for decades. It's not with Republicans.
That was, of course, Jimmy Carter. And he lost re-election to a divorced, secular, west coast actor who would serve two terms. That was the start.
And today, Pope Francis is a strong global moral leader. Pope Francis has expressed, along with condemnation of, yes, abortion, condemnation of the death penalty and of greed. Pope Francis calls on us to be responsible stewards of our one planet and speaks as an educated scientist. Pope Francis asks for care of the sick, the poor, the immigrants and the refugees (regardless of their faith). Pope Francis said that no man who builds a wall can call himself Christian.
So, looking at the big picture, it is clear where christian values voters, southern or not, should logically have found their place for decades. It's not with Republicans.
327
Carter also happened to be incompetent.
I hire plumbers based on their ability to fix leaks not their faith.
I hire plumbers based on their ability to fix leaks not their faith.
1
Thank you, thank you, thank you for bringing up Jimmy Carter. I had just graduated from college and was beginning to pay closer attention to politics.
Carter put the phrase "Born-again Christian" on the cover of Time. I will long remember when Jerry Falwell announced his support for Reagan. I was stunned and angry. I could not believe the hypocrisy of a "religious man" turning his back on the most "Christlike" person to have occupied the White House.
Now I'm just numb to the words and actions of our modern day Pharisees and Sadducees.
Carter put the phrase "Born-again Christian" on the cover of Time. I will long remember when Jerry Falwell announced his support for Reagan. I was stunned and angry. I could not believe the hypocrisy of a "religious man" turning his back on the most "Christlike" person to have occupied the White House.
Now I'm just numb to the words and actions of our modern day Pharisees and Sadducees.
28
Eric,
According to 91 Presidential Historians (who I'm sure you think are all pointy-headed liberals), Carter ranks 26 out of 43.
GW Bush is 33.
If the helicopter hadn't failed in the desert in Iran in 1979, we'd all be saying "Ronald who?"
According to 91 Presidential Historians (who I'm sure you think are all pointy-headed liberals), Carter ranks 26 out of 43.
GW Bush is 33.
If the helicopter hadn't failed in the desert in Iran in 1979, we'd all be saying "Ronald who?"
13
Ms. Renkl,
For Christians, we are about to enter Holy Week with tomorrow being Palm Sunday and ending one week later with Easter Sunday. This is one of the most important holy times on the Christian calendar and taken very seriously by millions of Christians around the world.
I agree we should not judge those who believe differently than we do but what about those of us who must defend our religious beliefs and practices on a regular basis? In secular Manhattan, it is not always easy being a Christian and you are definitely in the minority. We often have to explain why we believe and must endure endless questions and skepticism from others.
I am pro life and am frequently challenged by my sincere belief that abortion is the taking of innocent human life. You are killing an innocent human being and it should not occur. The frequent argument is that it is a woman's right to control her own body but there is no consideration for the life inside her. Many of those arguing for abortion are nasty and show no compassion for the opposing side. It is a two way street and all views must be respected.
For Christians, we are about to enter Holy Week with tomorrow being Palm Sunday and ending one week later with Easter Sunday. This is one of the most important holy times on the Christian calendar and taken very seriously by millions of Christians around the world.
I agree we should not judge those who believe differently than we do but what about those of us who must defend our religious beliefs and practices on a regular basis? In secular Manhattan, it is not always easy being a Christian and you are definitely in the minority. We often have to explain why we believe and must endure endless questions and skepticism from others.
I am pro life and am frequently challenged by my sincere belief that abortion is the taking of innocent human life. You are killing an innocent human being and it should not occur. The frequent argument is that it is a woman's right to control her own body but there is no consideration for the life inside her. Many of those arguing for abortion are nasty and show no compassion for the opposing side. It is a two way street and all views must be respected.
7
"You are killing an innocent human being and it should not occur."
Are the children of the several countries we daily kill with our bombs not innocent? This is where there hypocrisy charge comes in. For that matter, what does innocence have to do with it?
Are the children of the several countries we daily kill with our bombs not innocent? This is where there hypocrisy charge comes in. For that matter, what does innocence have to do with it?
12
All views must've accepted- but your views shouldn't to take away the rights of the opposing side. So, if you don't believe in abortion- for religious views- don't have one. I do not believe a non-viable fetus is a person deserving of the rights belonging to the woman carrying it.
10
A lifetime of observing pro choice and pro life conflicts makes it clear who is "nasty." Who kills, bombs, screams, threatens, demands, lies and refuses to care for unwanted children? Who tries to respect women and take care of children, relies on science and education and makes contraception a mandate? One wearies of the self righteous, their meanness, their hypocrisy and their distortion of Christianity. As we educate young people to take responsibility for sexual activity they will stop accepting the beliefs and behaviors of most of the pro life crowd and this destructive distortion, this pretense of caring about life, will wither away.
29
It's little surprise that Fake News Nation fell head-over-heels for the Faker-In-Chief who faked his Christianity throughout the campaign - doing his best impersonation of the original snake oil salesman Clark Stanley - as he rolled out his fake Christianity to adoring cult congregants with the soothing reassurance of a psychopathic hypocrite.
"Let us prey" said the Predator-In-Chief, making absolute mincemeat of the teachings of Christ.
"You can never be too greedy", wrote Donald Trump in the The Art of the Swine in 1987, as he publicly prayed to the God of Mammon and spit in 'God's' face.
The idea that alleged Christians voted for Donald Trump is prima facie evidence of Bible-concussive syndrome and clinical cognitive dissonance.
The idea that America's alleged Christians voted for Trump is 'heart-breaking', but of much greater concern are the broken minds of alleged Christians voting for a man who's as close to Christ as your average bordello-and-casino operator,
In spite of - or because of - all those decades in church reading the good book and praying for salvation, American Christians showed us and delivered to us The Passion of the Anti-Christ.
Heckuva' job, Jesus freaks.
I'm sure Jesus would be just thrilled with the Fake-Christian-In-Chief.
Now let's get rid of that healthcare for the poor so they can 'meet the Lord' as soon as sadistically possible.
Nice 'Christian' people.
The Passion of America's Anti-Christs runs deep.
"Let us prey" said the Predator-In-Chief, making absolute mincemeat of the teachings of Christ.
"You can never be too greedy", wrote Donald Trump in the The Art of the Swine in 1987, as he publicly prayed to the God of Mammon and spit in 'God's' face.
The idea that alleged Christians voted for Donald Trump is prima facie evidence of Bible-concussive syndrome and clinical cognitive dissonance.
The idea that America's alleged Christians voted for Trump is 'heart-breaking', but of much greater concern are the broken minds of alleged Christians voting for a man who's as close to Christ as your average bordello-and-casino operator,
In spite of - or because of - all those decades in church reading the good book and praying for salvation, American Christians showed us and delivered to us The Passion of the Anti-Christ.
Heckuva' job, Jesus freaks.
I'm sure Jesus would be just thrilled with the Fake-Christian-In-Chief.
Now let's get rid of that healthcare for the poor so they can 'meet the Lord' as soon as sadistically possible.
Nice 'Christian' people.
The Passion of America's Anti-Christs runs deep.
713
Trump cannot help but to bear false witness and he obviously covets other women, while he's married. And, he steals and brags. Now everyone can see why God gave the Ten Commandments to my people.
2
I dread the thought that this might, in all contradiction to our Founders' intentions, become a Christian nation. That is because a Christian nation will be an illiberal, intolerant, dogmatic, totalitarian nation like all religious states throughout history. It is also because I am not a Christian and I see no reason to be discriminated against for that reason.
I hope and am inclined to believe that by a "Christian nation" the author means a nation that practices the humane values of liberality, tolerance, thoughtfulness, and freedom to live as one pleases (without harming others). Those are not sectarian nor Christian values; they are human values. I welcome with gratitude all Christians (and Moslems, Jews, Buddhists, and others) who will strengthen those values.
I hope and am inclined to believe that by a "Christian nation" the author means a nation that practices the humane values of liberality, tolerance, thoughtfulness, and freedom to live as one pleases (without harming others). Those are not sectarian nor Christian values; they are human values. I welcome with gratitude all Christians (and Moslems, Jews, Buddhists, and others) who will strengthen those values.
187
Thank you for this thoughtful and thought-provoking essay.
28
I think this is beautifully written and I have the same hope as the writer.
While I am angry about the horrible things the President said and did in his life prior to becoming a candidate and what he said and did during the campaign, and as flabbergasted and profoundly disappointed I am in how many of my fellow Americans thought that behavior was somehow acceptable and voted for him (on the single issue that they just got paid back for on Friday), I am looking to the future when we can start to undo the damage his administration is inflicting on our country.
To be ready for that and to be able to do that, we will need to remember what are the right things to do as caring compassionate, empathetic human beings - whatever your religion or beliefs, and act and treat others as such. This administration will continue to enact it's destructive plans and policies and we we need to look out for each other while we wait for their time to pass.
While I am angry about the horrible things the President said and did in his life prior to becoming a candidate and what he said and did during the campaign, and as flabbergasted and profoundly disappointed I am in how many of my fellow Americans thought that behavior was somehow acceptable and voted for him (on the single issue that they just got paid back for on Friday), I am looking to the future when we can start to undo the damage his administration is inflicting on our country.
To be ready for that and to be able to do that, we will need to remember what are the right things to do as caring compassionate, empathetic human beings - whatever your religion or beliefs, and act and treat others as such. This administration will continue to enact it's destructive plans and policies and we we need to look out for each other while we wait for their time to pass.
66
It is hard to understand why "Christian" voters were apalled by speck that was in Hillary's eye, while ignoring the log that was in Trump's.
782
Because the same log is in theirs.
9
Two words: Fox "News."
14
It must have been those deplorable and irredeemable comments.
2
A sad truism about politics in the USA, is that although we are a secular nation, a secular candidate for President would not receive enough meaningful support to get any traction. The result of this, is that a populist con man simply lies about his faith, and draws in that extra subset of voters like so many flys on flypaper. Perhaps that would be true of any large club, but watching how some of these larger churches influence their flocks to vote is only Insult to misguided injury.
108
That he lies about his faith should be obvious. So why did they vote for him? You hit on it with "these larger churches influence their flocks to vote"; in short they'll do what ever they're told to do. That this happens in 'churches' that essentially businesses should strip away their tax free basis immediately.
15
I would agree, but for the recent counterexample of Bernie Sanders.
2
Bernie Sanders was a secular candidate, and likely would have beaten Trump if he had been nominated. (As a Christian, I was an enthusiastic Bernie supporter.)
1
It doesn't matter how "right" your religion seems to you, or how beautifully it fits into your life, in this land we agree not to force our beliefs upon everybody by making them the law of the land.
You can proselytize, you can persuade by the beauty of your example. But putting a judge on the Supreme Court to vote for your religious views, or insisting upon your religious teachings in public schools, or other such religiously motivated actions that force your convictions upon others, are actions contrary to Democracy.
You can proselytize, you can persuade by the beauty of your example. But putting a judge on the Supreme Court to vote for your religious views, or insisting upon your religious teachings in public schools, or other such religiously motivated actions that force your convictions upon others, are actions contrary to Democracy.
667
Read The Myth of A Christian Nation, by Gregory Boyd
8
Quite honestly, Southern "Christians" have driven me from attending church services and now from living in the South at all. In less than two months I will be moving to a place where there are more real "Christians." There are things I will miss about the South, but very few of the people!
229
I have said often that some of the best christians I know are Muslim. By christian (as opposed to 'Christian') I mean those adhering to the actual teachings of Jesus and other holy men over the millennia.
8
The failure of Elite Liberals to treat those Americans who disagree with them
with civility and compassion led to Trump.
Trump knew he could say and promise just about anything because
America's poor relations were fed up with Washington, D.C.
Charity begins at home.
with civility and compassion led to Trump.
Trump knew he could say and promise just about anything because
America's poor relations were fed up with Washington, D.C.
Charity begins at home.
9
John Brown, I pity you for your inability to distinguish between Elite Liberals and Washington, D.C. Washington's national government is not very liberal at all.
That government, by the way, has been ruled largely by Republicans for some two decades through a combination of strict party discipline and refusal to compromise.
That government, by the way, has been ruled largely by Republicans for some two decades through a combination of strict party discipline and refusal to compromise.
207
Elected all of those down to earth everyday billionaires should help. Yee haw!
27
TZ,
I don't know if anyone governs this country.
I do know that those who voted for Trump feel, and
feeling is what matters, not cool rational judgement that
matters.
When the Supreme Court reads into the 14th Amendment
"Same Gender Marriages" and President Obama issues
an "edict" saying all Public School must allow self-proclaimed
Transgendered youth access to whatever Facilities they so choose
and if they don't the School District could lose Federal Funding.
Those types of issue enrage Trump Supporters because it seems
to be an un-Constitutional Intrusion into their lives.
Trump realised long ago what Hillary failed to learn
it is public perception that matters - not the plain facts.
When Elite Liberals look down their noses at the lower classes,
who dare to disagree with them, what do you expect the
lower classes to do.
Trump knew what to do and to say - even if they were all lies.
I don't know if anyone governs this country.
I do know that those who voted for Trump feel, and
feeling is what matters, not cool rational judgement that
matters.
When the Supreme Court reads into the 14th Amendment
"Same Gender Marriages" and President Obama issues
an "edict" saying all Public School must allow self-proclaimed
Transgendered youth access to whatever Facilities they so choose
and if they don't the School District could lose Federal Funding.
Those types of issue enrage Trump Supporters because it seems
to be an un-Constitutional Intrusion into their lives.
Trump realised long ago what Hillary failed to learn
it is public perception that matters - not the plain facts.
When Elite Liberals look down their noses at the lower classes,
who dare to disagree with them, what do you expect the
lower classes to do.
Trump knew what to do and to say - even if they were all lies.
2
A chance to turn this into a Christian nation? The Christianity of the conservative right is about membership in the club. It's not about anything that Jesus taught. It also provides a means for the 1% to control a populace that's more than willing to choose belief over facts. If we were going to be a Christian nation we would have elected the Jewish guy who ran.
439
Which Jewish guy are you referring to?
If someone truly follows Jesus, they can't really belong to either political party. Christ's principles are above human politics. I agree with Ms. Renkl that abortion is the dealbreaker for many Christians. Myself, I put in with the party which is most likely to lead to an equitable, fair and just society. It's always a difficult decision and one needs to choose and vote as best as one can.
72
Religion is acceptable, even necessary, within walls framed by stained glass. But outside those walls we need to have a religion-like belief in capitalism. It is in fact our secular religion. It is like nature in its sometimes brutal power. For those who have a hard time with this I recommend they take a look at the Prosperity Gospel.
3
Dear Leave Capitalism Alone: Anyone who has studied the Bible and traditional Christian doctrine knows that 1) the Prosperity Gospel is the polar opposite of what Christ taught--he cautioned his followers against the spiritual hazards of material wealth, and 2) Among the people Christ condemned were those who went through the motions of religious piety but did not let their actions reflect their professed beliefs.
It is sad to see today's equivalents of the people Jesus condemned wanting to enshrine their notion of personal sexual behavior in secular law (including things Jesus never mentioned) while claiming that the Bible's calls for peace and justice and generosity are "impractical."
It is sad to see today's equivalents of the people Jesus condemned wanting to enshrine their notion of personal sexual behavior in secular law (including things Jesus never mentioned) while claiming that the Bible's calls for peace and justice and generosity are "impractical."
10
Too many people have a religious view of capitalism and don't see how that brutal power doesn't help them at all. Of course for the ones on top, that religion has proven worthy for them. But for the millions in poverty, it hasn't and never will work for them.
Capitalism has no morals, no law to make it decent. Only people can do that. Prosperity gospel is just another form of capitalism that is all about one person getting rich, just like capitalism.
When I was young, capitalism was referred as dog eat dog economics. Nothing has changed. Only by making it something else can capitalism have a hope to be able to help everyone. You tame the beast or it eats you. So far it is eating most people.
Capitalism has no morals, no law to make it decent. Only people can do that. Prosperity gospel is just another form of capitalism that is all about one person getting rich, just like capitalism.
When I was young, capitalism was referred as dog eat dog economics. Nothing has changed. Only by making it something else can capitalism have a hope to be able to help everyone. You tame the beast or it eats you. So far it is eating most people.
14
I’d prefer it if we weren’t a Christian nation, or a Muslim nation, or a Pentecostal Snake Handler nation, or any nation that put belief in invisible spirits ahead of compassion for living, breathing human beings.
I’m done with the gay bashing, the second-class status of women, the knee-jerk science denial and the clueless Congressional cohort who thinks that bringing on the End of Days would be a good thing.
I’m especially fed up with the idea that the right to life really means that a child is doomed to be raised by a woman who is unwilling, unable or unprepared to raise it—a fate that is even more likely when combined with the religious right’s opposition to birth control.
Religion is often a convenient handle by which large swathes of believers can be pulled along and convinced to vote against their own interests. No amoral political hack worth his salt could pass up the opportunity to get millions of votes just by mouthing a few sanctimonious platitudes, or pretending that “Two Corinthians” was his favorite part of the Bible.
There are lots of good-hearted religious folks who are better people than I am. But in the aggregate there’s a danger that as the wall between church and state is weakened, so is the one that keeps out fundamentalism, ignorance, misogyny and homophobia.
We’re enjoined to love our neighbors. But I would love my neighbors more if they would keep their religious beliefs to themselves.
I’m done with the gay bashing, the second-class status of women, the knee-jerk science denial and the clueless Congressional cohort who thinks that bringing on the End of Days would be a good thing.
I’m especially fed up with the idea that the right to life really means that a child is doomed to be raised by a woman who is unwilling, unable or unprepared to raise it—a fate that is even more likely when combined with the religious right’s opposition to birth control.
Religion is often a convenient handle by which large swathes of believers can be pulled along and convinced to vote against their own interests. No amoral political hack worth his salt could pass up the opportunity to get millions of votes just by mouthing a few sanctimonious platitudes, or pretending that “Two Corinthians” was his favorite part of the Bible.
There are lots of good-hearted religious folks who are better people than I am. But in the aggregate there’s a danger that as the wall between church and state is weakened, so is the one that keeps out fundamentalism, ignorance, misogyny and homophobia.
We’re enjoined to love our neighbors. But I would love my neighbors more if they would keep their religious beliefs to themselves.
1471
Perfect...my sentiments exactly.
13
Gemli, you are consistently a gem.
18
Sorry to break your thought pattern but Bobby Jindal said the bible can't be trumps favorite book because he is not in it!
8
Margaret, IMHO, authentic spiritual growth is often challenging and disillusioning. I argue that this phase of disillusionment is an essential step in the process of enlightenment, inasmuch one must necessarily let go the illusion that they already know the truth before sufficient mind space can be created to allow in the next incremental installment of what is likely an extraordinary complex and challenging cosmic reality.
If a Trump presidency has the potential to serve any useful purpose, introducing evangelical and conservative Christians to the likely banquet of disillusionment that awaits them is as good as it get.
Furthermore, In this, the year of the 500th anniversary of the start of The Reformation, IMHO, the lesson that Southern Evangelical Christians must learn is that belief is wildly overrated - as overrated as, for instance, the ability of necessarily self-interested businessmen to effectively manage a people's economy. And not only is it overrated, but it can be positively dangerous - especially when wholly subjective and untested beliefs about religious righteousness are routinely conflated with a style of politics that makes a mockery of Jesus' actual teachings, and substitutes in its place a theology best encapsulated as "might makes right", "wealth equals virtue", "do unto others BEFORE they do unto you" and "happiness is a warm gun".
If this be Christianity, then I cannot easily distinguish it from Satanism.
If a Trump presidency has the potential to serve any useful purpose, introducing evangelical and conservative Christians to the likely banquet of disillusionment that awaits them is as good as it get.
Furthermore, In this, the year of the 500th anniversary of the start of The Reformation, IMHO, the lesson that Southern Evangelical Christians must learn is that belief is wildly overrated - as overrated as, for instance, the ability of necessarily self-interested businessmen to effectively manage a people's economy. And not only is it overrated, but it can be positively dangerous - especially when wholly subjective and untested beliefs about religious righteousness are routinely conflated with a style of politics that makes a mockery of Jesus' actual teachings, and substitutes in its place a theology best encapsulated as "might makes right", "wealth equals virtue", "do unto others BEFORE they do unto you" and "happiness is a warm gun".
If this be Christianity, then I cannot easily distinguish it from Satanism.
442
Excellent article. I would just add that it's pretty lonely being Christian and liberal in the Midwest, as well.
59
Chris Hedges has written a wonder book entitled "American Fascists" on this subject. It'll scare you to death.
12
It is a modern day affectation promulgated by pastors and priests as their concocted at-home litmus test to identify True Believers. "I hate abortion, therefore I am worthy of Christ's blessing."
In truth, no one likes or loves abortion, but many of us believe that a woman's right to choose her own destiny is far more important than the potential for an unwanted zygote or embryo.
Do you think government should have the power to dictate to women that they MUST abort when directed?* I thought not. Then, in good conscience and all honesty, can we all not agree that government should not have the power to dictate to women that they must carry to term?
How "Christian" is that? Is that what Jesus would force women to do? Either way, how do you know?
*The U.S. once came to this conclusion regarding pregnant women in our armed forces. The decision was later squashed.