My personal struggle has been that I applied for (and received) a $5000 loan forgiveness through the Teacher Loan Forgiveness Program. I thought that I could get this $5K forgiveness after 5 years of teaching and continue on my goal toward the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program. After all, I am a teacher and a public servant, right? Wrong! Getting the 5K forgiven reset the clock. After 5 years, I was back at Year 0. In the long run, this will cost me tens of thousands of dollars. This program is a bureacratic nightmare.
1
Why is this extremely legitimate program of loan forgiveness for those who sign up to do recognized public service work such a problem?It would appear that our government and ,in particular,the Department of Education is failing to operate in a straightforward and transparent manner. On the the contrary , the Department of Education would seem to be acting as opaque as possible like a trickster or con man. What becomes of the idea of public service when those hoping to serve are treated in this manner? Will anyone want to step up ,to take a salary below that which could have been commanded in the private sector "to help". What becomes of virtuous citizenship? Perhaps that is the point. This is not a problem of quote unquote "big government". It is ,quite possibly, a con run by those who would like government dedicated to the welfare of the great majority of its citizenry ruined if not entirely destroyed.
2
It is almost as if the upper echelons of our society, in particular Republicans, don't want to have teachers, health care specialists and people working in not-for-profits for the great social good. Is this because an under-educated, sick, desperate populace is less like to vote at all, or be fooled by Republican blather into voting against their own self interest? That way the rich get richer, and richer, and richer, at least in the short term. It is disgusting that we do not adequately support people who are central to our society's, our nation's, well-being.
4
Yikes! From reading these comments, even college financial advisers sometimes give students bum advise. My daughter will start taking out student loans next fall and is planning to become a teacher. What is your advise on who to consult to make sure we set everything up just perfectly so that she will eligible for the loan forgiveness program? Are there accountants that specialize in helping students set up these kinds of loans? I'm afraid that even after reading the 56 question fact sheet, the tool kits, the Department of Education's website, and the lender website I still might mess something up.
1
Make sure not to use an outside company to help once she graduates. I am a professor at a public university. I know from former students and friends that there are shady companies working in this space. They send letters to people with student debt saying that the may qualify for forgiveness. They charge money to help people file the PSLF enrollment paperwork. Then, they charge a monthly fee to help look after your account. The problem is that some of these companies don't actually finish all of the paperwork you need to be fully participating in the program. Antedotes are not evidence but I would not be surprised if the Department of Ed data showing that not everyone enrolled in PSLF has made a qualified payment is partially related to this phenomenon. The federal government needs to get a handle on the student loan debacle. Also, make sure that she submits annual verification of qualified employment to FedLoan Servicing every year once she becomes a teacher.
Well I tend to think the 'Public Loan forgiveness' program is just basically another government welfare program renamed, but for those who don't really need it.
Why should certain degrees be forgiven and others not? Should it be the government or the private market that's in the business of deciding which professions are worthy, and which are not? Why should doctors and lawyers, already on track to make obscene amounts of cash, receive preference over poets, artists, journalists or craftsmen?
Gross government overreach to the tune of over $50 billion dollars on average coming due this year, that taxpayers must pay for, for the next ten years.
Or put succintly, HALF A TRILLION DOLLARS added to the national debt in the coming decade. Truly shocking, indeed.
The US government really cannot afford to do this, not even one time. I know I certainly don't want to pay for someone else's education so they can live high on the hog at my expense.
And neither should you have to or anyone else.
This was a poorly conceived and ill-thought out program from the start and should be abolished, its enrollees made to pay at least a majority of what they owe. The government should not pay a dime.
Why should certain degrees be forgiven and others not? Should it be the government or the private market that's in the business of deciding which professions are worthy, and which are not? Why should doctors and lawyers, already on track to make obscene amounts of cash, receive preference over poets, artists, journalists or craftsmen?
Gross government overreach to the tune of over $50 billion dollars on average coming due this year, that taxpayers must pay for, for the next ten years.
Or put succintly, HALF A TRILLION DOLLARS added to the national debt in the coming decade. Truly shocking, indeed.
The US government really cannot afford to do this, not even one time. I know I certainly don't want to pay for someone else's education so they can live high on the hog at my expense.
And neither should you have to or anyone else.
This was a poorly conceived and ill-thought out program from the start and should be abolished, its enrollees made to pay at least a majority of what they owe. The government should not pay a dime.
2
This is no joke - Trump's Department of Education is waging a full-scale assault on student loan forgiveness benefits.
If Betsy DeVos gets to kill the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program, then you can bet that all the other benefits packages will be coming down soon after.
STOP THEM BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE! Sign the Petition to Protect the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program here: https://www.change.org/p/defend-federal-student-loan-forgiveness-benefit...
If Betsy DeVos gets to kill the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program, then you can bet that all the other benefits packages will be coming down soon after.
STOP THEM BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE! Sign the Petition to Protect the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program here: https://www.change.org/p/defend-federal-student-loan-forgiveness-benefit...
1
Many NYT comment-writers seem to be big proponents of the "attend where you can afford" school of thought, which is very reasonable for undergraduate education. However, this paradigm breaks down at graduate level fields- for example medical school.
There are only 150 medical schools in the US. Tuition for four years is between 100k and 300k. Interestingly, it costs most state medical schools more to educate the medical student than the tuition- the rest is covered by taxes. Regardless, paying the price tag up front is unrealistic for all but the 1% with rich parents.
So we have a quandary- either those most qualified take out loans, which so many commenters seem to deride, or only the richest Americans become doctors. Because medical school spots are so limited, there would easily be enough applicants who could afford to pay up front to fill the spots- but they may be slightly less qualified.
The biggest problem with the "no loans" mindset comes when all of the rich kids are now doctors- your doctors. Do we really think a hospital full of 1% physicians will be as attentive to those struggling to meet healthcare costs? What rich kid physician, accustomed to creature comforts, is going to go out and become your primary doctor in rural Nebraska?
Hate on student loans for undergraduates all you want, but unless you want a homogeneously privileged population of doctors, lawyers, etc.... They're a necessary evil.
There are only 150 medical schools in the US. Tuition for four years is between 100k and 300k. Interestingly, it costs most state medical schools more to educate the medical student than the tuition- the rest is covered by taxes. Regardless, paying the price tag up front is unrealistic for all but the 1% with rich parents.
So we have a quandary- either those most qualified take out loans, which so many commenters seem to deride, or only the richest Americans become doctors. Because medical school spots are so limited, there would easily be enough applicants who could afford to pay up front to fill the spots- but they may be slightly less qualified.
The biggest problem with the "no loans" mindset comes when all of the rich kids are now doctors- your doctors. Do we really think a hospital full of 1% physicians will be as attentive to those struggling to meet healthcare costs? What rich kid physician, accustomed to creature comforts, is going to go out and become your primary doctor in rural Nebraska?
Hate on student loans for undergraduates all you want, but unless you want a homogeneously privileged population of doctors, lawyers, etc.... They're a necessary evil.
11
Have no fear, Donald thinks that you'll just switch to a for-profit--like his padlocked one--that charges more than harvard or Srtanfor,and the credits will probably not be transferrable.
But the good news: the Government will pick up the remaining cost, after you realize that any "degree" from that "school" will be worthless, in your career goals. Go to community college, move up to state and, then, go to a name school--if you can--for grad or professional school!
https://thetruthoncommonsense.com
But the good news: the Government will pick up the remaining cost, after you realize that any "degree" from that "school" will be worthless, in your career goals. Go to community college, move up to state and, then, go to a name school--if you can--for grad or professional school!
https://thetruthoncommonsense.com
1
The student loan industrial complex is as responsible for the reprehensible rise in the cost of college as Medicare resulted in the insanely high price of medical care. Colleges and universities flush with student loan money went on a building spree including facilities that serve no academic purpose as well as spending on other non-academic pursuits like luring athletes with full freight tuition and costs who can barely spell their names. Of course, companies and banks in the business of student loans lobby long and hard, with big bucks, to stop any reform.
2
Don't fret! Betsy's going to make this all better by selling your outstanding loans to a for profit debt collection agency.
3
Student debt too high?- Can't repay??
LEAVE the country. Debt is uncollectible in another country Work outside the US and get paid in their currency. Bank in that country not in US
Pay your taxes-no refunds. come back to visit as nonpayment of debt is not a crime.
The organization that sold you the loan doesn't care about you.
You have become an indentured servant paying a large portion of your income to others. FREE YOURSELF
LEAVE the country. Debt is uncollectible in another country Work outside the US and get paid in their currency. Bank in that country not in US
Pay your taxes-no refunds. come back to visit as nonpayment of debt is not a crime.
The organization that sold you the loan doesn't care about you.
You have become an indentured servant paying a large portion of your income to others. FREE YOURSELF
5
Every parent of a student, and every student, should write and call their senator and congressional representative and Betsy Devos, about this travesty. These people need to be buried under an avalanche of calls and letters to alert them that their decisions will NOT BE TOLERATED.
No different than how voters have been contacting their elected officials over the ACA, we need to be hammering our representatives and trumps ridiculous appointee--DeVos. These politicians need to recognize that we will not allow them to continue to place people who took these loans out and worked in lower paying public employment at current and future economic risk by being undermined by these politicians.
No different than how voters have been contacting their elected officials over the ACA, we need to be hammering our representatives and trumps ridiculous appointee--DeVos. These politicians need to recognize that we will not allow them to continue to place people who took these loans out and worked in lower paying public employment at current and future economic risk by being undermined by these politicians.
I can't read past the fact that many of these people appear to be gaming he system from the start. Oh, I'll take these loans then get them forgiven. Guess that didn't work out. For those that didn't, they didn't do their homework in terms of the payoff in their chosen profession and being able to repay their loans based on that. But that's somehow not their fault.
In the end, though, this is the reason higher education has become more expensive. The government basically pumps money into the schools via these loans which enables the schools to charge more. The students are just the vehicle for the wealth transfer, hence the call for "free" college. Just cut out the middle man. But it's only free for those who pay no or minimal taxes. Otherwise, there's nothing free about it for taxpayers. Also, we'll get the same crappy educational system that we have at the primary and secondary school levels. Pretty much already there in many states. Further, you want more government involvement yet that's the exact problem here. Large bureaucracies do nothing well but free college is effectively a call to create additional bureaucratic complexity.
I have an idea, work first then take the government money. It's called the GI Bill, it's a great deal, and it's as "free" as the other "free" college suggestions are.
In the end, though, this is the reason higher education has become more expensive. The government basically pumps money into the schools via these loans which enables the schools to charge more. The students are just the vehicle for the wealth transfer, hence the call for "free" college. Just cut out the middle man. But it's only free for those who pay no or minimal taxes. Otherwise, there's nothing free about it for taxpayers. Also, we'll get the same crappy educational system that we have at the primary and secondary school levels. Pretty much already there in many states. Further, you want more government involvement yet that's the exact problem here. Large bureaucracies do nothing well but free college is effectively a call to create additional bureaucratic complexity.
I have an idea, work first then take the government money. It's called the GI Bill, it's a great deal, and it's as "free" as the other "free" college suggestions are.
5
Well I have the right student loans, and I'm in an IBR plan (owe $100K). My problem? Age discrimination. I "drank the kool-aid" and went back to graduate school and received an MBA and M.S. in Finance. I've been out 4 years, 700+ applications, approximately 650 in rejections, the rest either interviews or placed on eligibility lists that expired.
But hey, not all is lost. At 60, I recently got a $12/hour part-time security guard position. My options are 1: declare bankruptcy at age 65 (I've already made 3 years of on time income based repayments ($20/month), or 2) die before 20 years is over, the loan is forgiven, but since I wasn't able to get a qualifying PSLF job, the IRS will consider the forgiveness imputed income and tax it.
True irony is I would be 77 years old. Probably death is truly my only way out.
But hey, not all is lost. At 60, I recently got a $12/hour part-time security guard position. My options are 1: declare bankruptcy at age 65 (I've already made 3 years of on time income based repayments ($20/month), or 2) die before 20 years is over, the loan is forgiven, but since I wasn't able to get a qualifying PSLF job, the IRS will consider the forgiveness imputed income and tax it.
True irony is I would be 77 years old. Probably death is truly my only way out.
7
Funny things happen in life when you trust the word of a man like President Obama.
It's the College Cost Reduction and Access Act of 2007. Obama wasn't President in 2007.
7
So many of these Millennials were coddled from their earliest years and never got out from beneath their 'helicoptering' parents overblown concerns. These individuals never got to experience the ups and downs, their 'rights of passage', what one typically experiences as one grows up and matures into a young adult. Instead, they ultimately believed everything would always miraculously turn out to be OK. Bernie Sanders showed up and is why he had his fifteen minutes of fame, these Millennials hoping he'd get them out from beneath all their ill-gotten Student Loan Debt. That's all that was about: Sanders getting them free college educations and bailing out those drowning in debt. It was not about Sanders being for progressive issues. They didn't know Bernie Sanders from Colonel Sanders when the Democratic Primaries started. And what they've come to realize as they sit in their parent's basements trying to figure out what just happened, they're realizing it just doesn't work that way in the adult world. Instead, there's typically, not always, but usually someone waiting with his hand out.
1
I was paying my direct 8% consolidated federal loans to Sallie Mae for years and paid back nearly more than twice what I owed before I found out about PSLF three years after it started. Given I'm a life-long federal employee now just two years from retirement, it was a no-brainer to transfer my loans from Sallie Mae to the PSLF servicer for DOE, FedLoan. I figured at the very least I would be paying into the federal treasury instead of Sallie Mae's vast coffers. I was on track to have a small portion of my loan forgiven when FedLoan suggested I change my loan type from IBR to ICR, telling me my loan payments would be reduced $120 a month allowing me to have a bit more to forgive. Instead my loan went up $160 a month. Now There's likely to be nothing to forgive. Well played FedLoan. I should have known better than to believe any student loan servicer after my horrific experiences with Sallie Mae. They're all the same. Setting traps and pulling the rug out from under borrowers to bleed them dry.
7
In the 60's I had a loan that was a public service loan. In was the era of $75 a semester tuition. I taught for 10 years, paying my $31.53 a month payment and after 10 years my arrangement was done. My whole education was $3,500, and as my father was in the military and paid next to nothing, I had to take out loans in order to go to a state college (I also got a defense loan). I made sure to graduate in 3 years instead of 4 by working summers at the college and taking courses instead of a salary. 2 degrees, and 2 certifications, and 35 years of teaching later, I can't believe the financial numbers either.
3
I finally got my student loan paid off with a small-ish inheritance, a program that is not available to everybody. What a relief.
2
This is the largest civil crisis of our times. The inability to provide affordable access to education for public servants who provide essential functions such as teaching, healthcare, public health, child welfare is as insane as it self destructive.
I cannot in good faith recommend that people attend college as the given it was a generation ago. The debt will cripple anyone in virtually any career path. Look into industry certification programs, job training programs out of high school ( many partner with community colleges now). Find employers that help with tuition reimbursement and take night classes.
I see these words on the page and can't believe I've written them But I cannot honestly tell a young person today "Sure, take on that 100K debt for that degree. Don't worry, the economic value of your education will result in greater earning power and the debt will be paid off when you're earning boku bucks."
If someone tells you that, kids, you're being lied to. Be very, very careful.
I cannot in good faith recommend that people attend college as the given it was a generation ago. The debt will cripple anyone in virtually any career path. Look into industry certification programs, job training programs out of high school ( many partner with community colleges now). Find employers that help with tuition reimbursement and take night classes.
I see these words on the page and can't believe I've written them But I cannot honestly tell a young person today "Sure, take on that 100K debt for that degree. Don't worry, the economic value of your education will result in greater earning power and the debt will be paid off when you're earning boku bucks."
If someone tells you that, kids, you're being lied to. Be very, very careful.
6
I like that the article pointed out the pitfalls and cautioned how perilous and nebulous the policies of student loans are. I am one of millions of students who borrowed (for graduate school) from the government. Like the article stated I followed the requirements for loan forgiveness program and did research on the policies. It's not easy having an educational loan debt, in fact its a burden! I am paying consistently ~$380/mos under IBR plan while working for a 501 (c)(3) employer. Now that college tuition fees either state or private are getting more expensive, students would be making a difficult choice to borrow or not. The US Educational system has becoming more of a corporation and business model like. We could learn a lot from European countries' higher educational system where going to a college/uni is free.
1
I work for a non profit employer and when I learned of loan forgiveness I signed up but I was soon set right. I had the right kind of loans but not the right kind of repayment plan. The right kind of repayment plan would have had me paying twice what I was already paying monthly. There was no way I could afford the required $800 or more a month in loan payments. I was told that the goal was to have the loans repaid in 10 years not necessarily "forgiven". So what's the point of having a loan forgiveness program if the loans aren't actually forgiven? Your guess is as good as mine. So here I am still employed 10 years later at the same non profit and making loan payments that I can afford but will have me paying off the loans in hopefully another 10 years. But it makes no sense to me. My idea is to just have all student loan payments be tax deductible instead of the small percentage that we do get. That would help immensely. As a single woman with a non profit job there's no way I have savings, buy a house and pay off my student loans.
6
I am a special education teacher who made more in a different career 20 years ago, but I heeded those pleas that said the country needed teachers. One reason I was willing to take on the debt I did and go back to school was this program. What is happening now makes me very afraid. Even with the program, I will be paying my student loan until retirement. Without it? I'll be 80.
3
Trump: didn't pay millions in taxes by using high priced accountants to exploit every opportunity in the code, pushing the envelope to the point where he even sometimes broke the rules. Trump supporters: he's a savvy business man, and why shouldn't he take what he's entitled to? Young idealistic students: trying to use an opportunity intended to encourage and reward public service. Trump supporters: you're freeloaders, stop trying to mooch off the taxpayers.
6
I borrowed $15,0000 in increments of $5000 for my degree MFA out of Vermont College, that debt, with interest has grown to over $50,000!
I cannot make the payments and why is the government making profits on students? They clearly should not.
I cannot make the payments and why is the government making profits on students? They clearly should not.
1
We adults in this country need to stop terrorizing our children with horrendous debts for learning,and help them into their futures. Make learning something affordable and desirable! What kind of beasts are we that don't care about young adults trying to make their way in the world. We need to try to help, not make things harder. Who does this kind of thing to their children? Wake up financial "leaders"! You have children too. What kind of country do you want for them? You're creating a very ugly world. What happens to one being on the planet, affects ALL THE REST. Stop thinking that you can have it all while the rest of us suffer. You're suffering too, from an unequal country. You just dont' see it! You're blind. I'm disgusted by the greedy moneymongers among us.
2
I'm a late life career changer. At 53 I became a nurse. I also have graduate school loans. I work for a private not for profit hospital 503b (hopefully) thereby qualifying me (supposedly) for the program. I have close to 120,00 in loans, not all of which qualify. How will I ever know if I qualify? I have not consolidated my loans not entered into an income based repayment plan. I now discover that was a mistake. I called, they said wait to see if your employer is approved. So am I making qualifying payments in the wait until approval? Sounds like I am not. Is it worth it to consolidate and go on an income based repayment plan? Even if I don't qualify it merely means I am likely going to die with student loans. Not a very pleasant thought! Ommmmmmmmm, just breathe.
3
So what confidence should a patient have if they were honestly informed that the nursing education you received was not worth paying for?
i was rejected because my loans are from 1991. too old..i work as a teacher in nyc title 1 public school
2
Over a decade ago when the Student Loan Forgiveness program began, I called NelNet, the company who held my loans and asked them if I would qualify for the program as a government employee. I was told that I did. Fast forward 10 years. I called them and requested loan forgiveness, only to be told that my loans didn't qualify. I was literally in tears. They told me I could change my loan type and work another 10 years. I am 68 and not looking forward to working another 10 years to pay off these loans that are at 8%. And I still owe $50,000 on an original debt of $35,000. These loans are crippling our country's economic growth. New rules need to be put into place - for example, if you have made 10 years of payments on time, and are 65 or older, the loan is forgiven. Or better yet - free education, so we can have an educated workforce that is not burdened by debt. These companies are blood-suckers.
6
I'm a physician assistant, I paid off 120k this past year. I was able to do this due to several favorable situations that others may not have.
#1 I worked a second job as a PA on the weekends. #2 I married someone who didn't have student loan debt. #3 I was able to decrease my insane 8.5% rate to 4.75 from sofi.
I often tell young people going to college (or anyone that will listen ) that my student loans were/are the most influential thing in my life to date.
#1 I worked a second job as a PA on the weekends. #2 I married someone who didn't have student loan debt. #3 I was able to decrease my insane 8.5% rate to 4.75 from sofi.
I often tell young people going to college (or anyone that will listen ) that my student loans were/are the most influential thing in my life to date.
1
My partner teaches at a public university. She received multiple assurances that loan repayment plan qualified for the PSLF. On the eve of her loan forgiveness, she is now being told none of her payments qualify.
This is a sham.
This is a sham.
2
Once society started changing the changes didn't stop. Its all so new, this world you made up from remnants of thousand year old words and meanings.
I'm an architect who spent $70k on schooling 15 years ago at a private architecture school. The counselor at the time was more of a sales rep for sallie Mae and by extension the school itself. I signed a request form for cash and received it within days. I own my responsibility - regardless of the fact I can't afford it (an architect making well under $100k per year) and my opinion that I was "sold" my debt. I continue a debt cycle that includes borrowing from others so I can pay navient off monthly. I'm lucky to know people who can lend me money. The struggle has affected my credit score and ability to borrow money through traditional sources (i.e. The same banks that lent me money for school) - ironically impacting my capability to support the economy. Opportunists, regardless of political motivation, will take advantage of federal subsidies to make themselves rich-er. President Trump is one of these opportunists who could afford the lobbying efforts necessary to enact such ridiculous unlimited federal guarantees. The losers end up being American culture. We pay for what has become a shuck and jive economy based on the allure of free money. The fact that doctors and teachers and nonprofit ventures who signed up under a pretense of reimbursement are struggling to be relevant enough to receive this dangling carrot is, unfortunately, another sign of this cultural erosion. Education and health care are human rights - in an enlightened culture - not profit centers.
17
I was victimized in a similar scan. I had a great deal of passion for the subject matter at the school, and was stuck in indecision about whether to enroll, and wondering how legitimate it was. But the tipping point was the fact that they offered Federal Student Loans. I though well, they must be legitimate. It never occurred to me in my wildest imagination that scammers and slick salespeople could have access to federal dollars. I was innocent. Had to retrain in a more legitimate profession, and now I still carry private loans for a masters degree at age 57. I lost heavily. This can happen to any of us.
2
10 years is the typical repayment term, really? Try 23 years for me & many others. I have also worked for the government for 19 of the years & was never able to qualify for this program. I also went to state schools for all my degrees.
5
Tuition rates are much higher than they were in the 90s using any comparison metric. You would not have qualified for this program in any case since it did not exist....
The public servants in charge of running this loan "forgiveness" program need to do a reset themselves. There are too many conflicting rules which foul up the entire intention of the program and put it in a "US tax code" state of confusion.
5
My husband and I were both able to get our students loans paid off through the National Health Service Corp by working at a federal health center. As physicians, we would have been paying our student loans while our children were also in college. We are very grateful for this program, enhanced by Bush and Obama.
4
Classic case of a Republican-designed benefit program, with so many requirements and exceptions as to make it effectively non-existent. Same thing is happening with TANF, unemployment, and Medicaid.
18
I followed all of the advice in this article. I've been teaching Science in a high needs middle and public high school now for 17 years. I've applied for Loan Forgiveness 5 times over the years only to be denied each time for some ever changing reason (not 120 loan payments from last loan forgiveness application or not 10 more years from applying the last time, having loans taken out before a specific year and month, etc.) so I'll be paying monthly until I'm apparently 57. How the Federal Government can continue to make a fortune off of teachers like me is unbelievable.
31
It sounds like the student loan process must be added to the list of things that require you to hire an accountant and lawyer to evaluate and manage from day one of your involvement. Those financial aid counselors are not competent enough to protect you from consequences long after the application. These counselors and administrators also face no consequences as their only real task is to get you to take the money.
23
The military offers substantial educational programs in addition to VA benefits. Just a little something to compare with the ultimate sacrifice of organized fabric recycling.
5
She may actually be doing a useful thing. More to the point is that those 503(c)s are used for all sorts of spurious "charities" and that whole category ought to be reviewed and reined in. they are used to provide "public education" which is really politically slanted propaganda, for instance. And there are lots of nebulous organizations where the person to benefit is the head of the organization who takes a salary.
3
Clearly she should have worked for the military's recycling program. If only she had received your sage advice before starting her venture!
The military provides one of the biggest social welfare programs in existence, especially when it comes to paid training, post service benefits and discounts.
It would benefit us all greatly if those benefits extended to public servants, especially the helping professions ( teaching, nursing, social work) all of which require college educations, often with advanced degrees and professional licensure. Of course, it shouldn't escape anyone's notice that these positions are historically and consistently done by females.
It would benefit us all greatly if those benefits extended to public servants, especially the helping professions ( teaching, nursing, social work) all of which require college educations, often with advanced degrees and professional licensure. Of course, it shouldn't escape anyone's notice that these positions are historically and consistently done by females.
2
I live within my means so if you can also, that would be nice.
7
The stories in the main article highlighting how working and truly underclass individuals are exploited by a lending system and their schools are heartbreaking and require action on the part of the courts to remedy those abuses.
But this young lady featured in the article is MORE than something else entirely. She could very well be the poster child for one thing that is very wrong with America.
She has a masters from Colombia. I could be wrong but I would bet that her parents have college degrees as well. She was able to take that class-fork-in-the-road available only to those who can afford it, years of unpaid internships.
The point is that, whether she knows it or not, and I suspect she does, she is a very privileged human being on this earth and I don't mean in the way the word is tossed around in the culture of PC.
Ms. Schreiber is literally privileged.
She is the founder of a non-profit? My eyes are rolling uncontrollably. Who does she want to eat her student debt? Taxpayers? People who WORK?
I paid off my student loan just last year, an initially small debt that grew and hounded me most of my life. I'm 59. I took out that loan when I was 22. I'm the son of a steelworker and a hair dresser with 7 years total schooling between them.
There are those who know how to game the system, and those who are victims of the game. Maybe Ms. Schreiber knew all along that one possible avenue of avoiding paying her student loan would be to start a non-profit.
But this young lady featured in the article is MORE than something else entirely. She could very well be the poster child for one thing that is very wrong with America.
She has a masters from Colombia. I could be wrong but I would bet that her parents have college degrees as well. She was able to take that class-fork-in-the-road available only to those who can afford it, years of unpaid internships.
The point is that, whether she knows it or not, and I suspect she does, she is a very privileged human being on this earth and I don't mean in the way the word is tossed around in the culture of PC.
Ms. Schreiber is literally privileged.
She is the founder of a non-profit? My eyes are rolling uncontrollably. Who does she want to eat her student debt? Taxpayers? People who WORK?
I paid off my student loan just last year, an initially small debt that grew and hounded me most of my life. I'm 59. I took out that loan when I was 22. I'm the son of a steelworker and a hair dresser with 7 years total schooling between them.
There are those who know how to game the system, and those who are victims of the game. Maybe Ms. Schreiber knew all along that one possible avenue of avoiding paying her student loan would be to start a non-profit.
17
As someone who borrowed and repaid a student loan, I am pleased to be able to pay into a system that "forgives" the loans of those who dedicate their lives to serving others. All you who borrowed money and has the government pay the interest while you god your JD or MBA just needs to suck it up and thank god that someone is willing to work for the common good while you feather your nest.
10
So did none of the people who now think they are being mistreated not read the details when they signed the loan contracts? Did they never think about how hard it would be to repay all that money? Can't say I feel too sorry for the many who failed to plan and now complain that the loan FORGIVENESS they seek is not easily gotten!
Why should there even be a loan forgiveness program for public employees? It is not like they are poorly paid any longer. They generally have better pay, longer vacations and more time off than counterparts in the private sector as well as MUCH less accountability.
Why should there even be a loan forgiveness program for public employees? It is not like they are poorly paid any longer. They generally have better pay, longer vacations and more time off than counterparts in the private sector as well as MUCH less accountability.
4
How did they "fail to plan" when they made career decisions based on a repayment option made available to them at the time they took out the loan? Seems to me that they put plenty of thought into their repayment options. And while it may be true that SOME government positions have better benefits/pay that is not the case for others like doctors, lawyers, engineers and the like.
3
"They generally have better pay, longer vacations and more time off than counterparts in the private sector as well as MUCH less accountability."- Yes, if you mean the U.S. Congress, otherwise you are quite mistaken.
16
I am a public defender and make $35,000 a year or the equivalent of $10 an hour. I have $300,000 in law school loans. I could have gone into private practice and made $300 an hour but I chose to fill the need for public defenders (there is a massive nationwide shortage threatening the stability of our justice system and constitutional guarantees, in case you weren't aware). If the government wants to pay its public servants such poor wages to uphold the constitution (well, the defenders of those poor "criminals" at least- entry level prosecutors make twice my salary, in my state) then the government needs to assist in loan repayment.
10
It's outrageous that doctors qualify for this. They make plenty of money, they should be paying back their debts.
5
They qualify because they took a lower paying public interest job instead of going out in the private sector and making more money.
6
Doctors who work for PUBLIC hospitals don't make "plenty" of money. And you should be glad they are working for a public hospital- where do you think all those people who have no insurance or those whose ACA insured plans start disappearing once the Repugs get their wish to repeal it go when they need healthcare? Have you been to an emergency room of a public hospital lately? Do you know how understaffed they are?! Gosh! the amount of selfish disinterest in public service and doing good for the public is astounding these days!
16
Regarding the doctors, consider the following
We have far too few primary care 'general practice,' pediatric and geriatric medicine doctors, and those specialities don't rake in the bucks. Increasingly those physicians are employees of companies, or work in non-profit community clinics, and not in private practice. So I'd be very careful about making a blanket statement on this. (I'm not a doctor, nor are any of my relatives, btw.)
We have far too few primary care 'general practice,' pediatric and geriatric medicine doctors, and those specialities don't rake in the bucks. Increasingly those physicians are employees of companies, or work in non-profit community clinics, and not in private practice. So I'd be very careful about making a blanket statement on this. (I'm not a doctor, nor are any of my relatives, btw.)
9
It is a Sophie's choice for me - either make payments that I could not afford and have the loan paid off JUST IN TIME for forgiveness, or continue to make smaller payments and get no credit. It is like someone wanted the credit for the idea, but nobody actually wanted to pay for it.
7
The USA still operates on the "buyer beware" justification. That might have been worked when we dealt face-to-face with local people we knew. Now an individual is often pitted against a large organization. Often so complicated that the individual almost never gets the same answer twice to to the same question. There is no substantial power in "Buyer" should know more than government, private loan servers, and university financial aid departments.
4
T
he concept of "Indentured Servant" has been rescuitated since the1980s. Many students enter adulthood burdened with decades of debt owed to an invisible creditor. And for those who don't know: it is unforgivable by personal bankruptcy, just like personal debt in 18th century England.
he concept of "Indentured Servant" has been rescuitated since the1980s. Many students enter adulthood burdened with decades of debt owed to an invisible creditor. And for those who don't know: it is unforgivable by personal bankruptcy, just like personal debt in 18th century England.
15
I know a Dentist who's payment has been 1500.00 per month for the past 15 years. I don't know the nitty gritty of the terms but how is possible? Perhaps the Mafia hes better terms.
5
I cannot believe the casual meanness I see in these comments. What a country we have become! I took out about $250,000 in direct loans to attend a top law school, and directed my career towards public service because I wanted to help others. One reason I chose the school I did- nyu- was because they have a comprehensive loan repayment program that has since combined with the federal program. I think I'll be ok regardless because nyu has promised forgiveness if the fed govt falls through, but my loans are now at about $316,000 because I'm not even paying off the interest under IBR (my payments are still $1500/ month). Now maybe you could say it's my fault for taking these loans if I'm stuck with about 400k in loans after working ten years helping others, but I chose this path when I was a naive 22 year old, having been assured by my parents and the government and nyu that my loans would be forgiven. Perhaps I should have been savvier, but are you really saying my life should be ruined - which it will be if my loans aren't forgiven - because I failed to comprehend at that age that my government might just be taking advantage of me? If so, I suggest you think a bit more about what the purpose of a society is.
49
You're not helping the cause here for people who need forgiveness. By telling everyone that your payments are $1,500 per month under IBR, you're stating that you earn more than $135K per year. While you may have earned more at a big firm, if that was an option, some attorneys at big firms leave to go to the government because the hours are much better. You're better off not commenting than telling people who already oppose the program that you earn that much while working 40 hours per week.
4
So quit the ,supposed, "public service" work and get a paying job if you can. Don't further burden working men and women so you can maintain your naivete. You never mention what, exactly, you do that won't pay you enough to even cover the interest, but my guess is that it isn't too demanding and that i what you like. Sorry you were foolish at 22, lots of us were, but it's really not our problem. Maybe you need to ask your parents for the money since you seem to think they led you astray. By the way, it probably won't "ruin" your life to get a good job. Heck you might learn to like having those Big Boy pants on.
2
What is ridiculous is all this animosity directed at people for participating in a program that was part of the loan contract they agreed to! The existence of the program led many of us to make decisions based on that. So yeah, we had our big boy pants on way back then and made a plan based on the loan contacts we signed.
It seems people are mad because they weren't able to access those options? Or maybe what they'd prefer is for the people who can't get higher paying jobs to go work for the federal government instead of the best and the brightest? Trust me, getting a top law grad for $135k is a steal. He is likely 5 years out of law school and his private firms are making double that.
It seems people are mad because they weren't able to access those options? Or maybe what they'd prefer is for the people who can't get higher paying jobs to go work for the federal government instead of the best and the brightest? Trust me, getting a top law grad for $135k is a steal. He is likely 5 years out of law school and his private firms are making double that.
7
The stories in the main article highlighting how working and truly underclass individuals are exploited by a lending system and their schools is heartbreaking and requires action on the part of the courts to remedy those abuses.
But this young lady featured in the article is MORE than something else entirely. She could very well be the poster child for one thing that is very wrong with America.
She has a masters from Colombia. I could be wrong but I would bet that her parents have college degrees as well. She was able to take that class-fork-in-the-road available only to those who can afford it, years of unpaid internships.
The point is that, whether she knows it or not, and I suspect she does, she is a very privileged human being on this earth and I don't mean in the way the word is tossed around in the culture of PC.
Ms. Schreiber is literally privileged.
She is the founder of a non-profit? My eyes are rolling uncontrollably. Who does she want to eat her student debt? Taxpayers? People who WORK?
I paid off my student loan just last year, an initially small debt that grew and hounded me most of my life. I'm 59. I took out that loan when I was 22. I'm the son of a steelworker and a hair dresser with 7 years total schooling between them.
There are those who know how to game the system, and those who are victims of the game. I accuse Ms. Schreiber of knowing in advance that one possible avenue of avoiding paying her student loan was to start a non-profit.
But this young lady featured in the article is MORE than something else entirely. She could very well be the poster child for one thing that is very wrong with America.
She has a masters from Colombia. I could be wrong but I would bet that her parents have college degrees as well. She was able to take that class-fork-in-the-road available only to those who can afford it, years of unpaid internships.
The point is that, whether she knows it or not, and I suspect she does, she is a very privileged human being on this earth and I don't mean in the way the word is tossed around in the culture of PC.
Ms. Schreiber is literally privileged.
She is the founder of a non-profit? My eyes are rolling uncontrollably. Who does she want to eat her student debt? Taxpayers? People who WORK?
I paid off my student loan just last year, an initially small debt that grew and hounded me most of my life. I'm 59. I took out that loan when I was 22. I'm the son of a steelworker and a hair dresser with 7 years total schooling between them.
There are those who know how to game the system, and those who are victims of the game. I accuse Ms. Schreiber of knowing in advance that one possible avenue of avoiding paying her student loan was to start a non-profit.
6
I'm one of those who's "qualified" for PSLF but not making qualifying payments....because I didn't know about the program until 6 years after school, and I'd been making the "wrong" kind of repayments. PSLF staff looked at my remaining debt and informed me that were I to change my repayment plan and begin making qualifying payments, my payment amount each month would double. At the end of 10 years time I'd have only a couple thousand left to forgive. In the meantime, the higher payments would eat into my ability to save for retirement and a house downpayment. The opportunity cost was just too high - I stayed with the longer, lower payment and will pay the amount in full. But that's what I assumed was the case when I took the loans out, so I'm not too bitter about it.
Bottom line: All student borrowers should be required to go through online training (a webinar would be easy enough to set up and administer) informing them of their choices and details of the various programs. And student borrowers whose loan forgiveness is declined after faithfully making repayments should sue the heck out of the DoE for misleading them all this time.
Bottom line: All student borrowers should be required to go through online training (a webinar would be easy enough to set up and administer) informing them of their choices and details of the various programs. And student borrowers whose loan forgiveness is declined after faithfully making repayments should sue the heck out of the DoE for misleading them all this time.
1
In fact, the training you suggest -- counseling on the loans -- is already required! But it doesn't seem to be doing enough good yet.
2
Hopefully the system has improved radically in the last decade! I certainly didn't get any counseling when I took out Stafford loans for grad school c. 2005-2009.
1
The "required" counseling I was sent to was a half hour power point slide, scheduled during my senior year mid-terms. It was wildly confusing and made no mention of programs like PSLF.
I hope it has since become more robust. I've spent a lot of time and energy learning about my options since then and there are a LOT of fishy, predatory groups out there who are preying on lack of understanding and misinformation, encouraging you to consolidate through a non-government agency or take our private loans to consolidate. It's WILD how dangerous this system is for young people. And to now have the government joining in on the chorus of confusion - it feels like rigged game.
I hope it has since become more robust. I've spent a lot of time and energy learning about my options since then and there are a LOT of fishy, predatory groups out there who are preying on lack of understanding and misinformation, encouraging you to consolidate through a non-government agency or take our private loans to consolidate. It's WILD how dangerous this system is for young people. And to now have the government joining in on the chorus of confusion - it feels like rigged game.
1
Thing is one can get mortgage debt relief even if one received a mortgage via a "liar loan." There is no debt relief for student loans, despite years or repayment and no way to refinance interest rates, like with a mortgage. If I had the ability to refinance, I would have been out of debt 10 years ago. As it is now, I have 20 more years of payments, despite 17 years of payments and paying back my original loan twice over. It's all so miserably rigged.
4
I am not a big fan of class action law suits, but this definitely screams for one. No one group of people are denied debt relief except for students with the student loans (people like trump gets to declare bankruptcy repeatedly and even get tax credit out of their "loss.") And all the "small print" in the loan forgiveness program seems deliberately complicated so that the borrowers can't qualify for it. All the students need to get together and file a GIANT class action! Go for it!
5
I am traumatized. At 75 7ears of age, I have no ways to repat my loans to Navient. At this age I already paid my debt to the Nation by growing my mind to its full potential, so that my words are of value to all!
Gee. A government program designed to make "helicopters" instead produces "gas grills". No surprise here. Calls to government "help lines" result in exactly the wrong advice, or no advice, or hang-ups. No surprise here. Inquiry that merely seeks to have government answer the simplest of questions, such as, explaining their own policies, becomes a trip through a Kafkaesque landscape. No surprise here. What is surprising though is the expectation in some quarters of competence in this, or frankly most any other government help.
Silly rabbits. The Trix are on you.
Silly rabbits. The Trix are on you.
1
good comment based entirely on fitting this article to your ideology, too bad it doesn't address the issues brought up by the article but that's par for the course you're on. this kind of incompetence never ever never happens in any business small or large, under or over staffed.
making the government fail on purpose doesn't mean the failure is not government's fault.
making the government fail on purpose doesn't mean the failure is not government's fault.
2
I'd like to apply for for a mortgage forgiveness, is that an option for me?
No, it's not.
You barrowed it, you pay it back. It's called paying your bills.
No sympathy. Grow up.
No, it's not.
You barrowed it, you pay it back. It's called paying your bills.
No sympathy. Grow up.
4
Behind Door #1: a lucrative private sector job
Behind Door #2: a lower-paying public sector job with loan forgiveness in 10 years.
Crossing Overhead, your reply ignored the fact that the Education Department has changed the rules of the game.
Or is it only Trump and other members of the 1% who should have debts forgiven?
Behind Door #2: a lower-paying public sector job with loan forgiveness in 10 years.
Crossing Overhead, your reply ignored the fact that the Education Department has changed the rules of the game.
Or is it only Trump and other members of the 1% who should have debts forgiven?
18
Gastly, your response is everything! People don't get that the loan forgiveness was built into the terms of the loan.
So to use the mortgage example, it would be like taking out a mortgage that promised ten years of payments with the balance to be forgiven in return for living and working in that house for the entire 10 years. If you stayed in that house for ten years and then they didn't forgive the balance (per your contract) you would be pissed! Well it works the same way here.
So to use the mortgage example, it would be like taking out a mortgage that promised ten years of payments with the balance to be forgiven in return for living and working in that house for the entire 10 years. If you stayed in that house for ten years and then they didn't forgive the balance (per your contract) you would be pissed! Well it works the same way here.
4
this type of forced indentured servitude for an education is whats wrong with our country and how we treat the most vulnerable, our children. as a father who watched as my daughter has been put through the ringer of what is basically a loan sharking ring of despicable loans and even worse collection agents. the response or lack of is typical of the attitude of the high and mighty education system, private universities included. again the pain and anguish generated by a loan that amounted to 10% of the cost of her education never mind those of the more needy. stay with this story because it is this generations ongoing theme.
6
The comments in this thread reveal a lot about Americans' attitudes toward public goods. I have read dozens of comments expressing something to the effect of "I repaid my loans, so I want everyone else to suffer financially, too" or "Today's kids always want something for nothing."
Nearly every other developed nation considers higher education a public good that benefits society, so it is subsidized and affordable. In the US, we want to foist the cost onto students and their families, so we go out of our way to not only make higher ed unaffordable by removing direct subsidies, but also to saddle students with decades of debt.
To make things worse, Americans sneer at any education that isn't vocational, i.e. aligned with capitalist rewards. We react with outrage if taxpayer money is used for courses in art, history, literature or philosophy -- as if it isn't a benefit to society to be educated in those areas.
We should be providing free, or affordable, tuition at public universities for students who qualify. An educated society is well worth the investment.
Nearly every other developed nation considers higher education a public good that benefits society, so it is subsidized and affordable. In the US, we want to foist the cost onto students and their families, so we go out of our way to not only make higher ed unaffordable by removing direct subsidies, but also to saddle students with decades of debt.
To make things worse, Americans sneer at any education that isn't vocational, i.e. aligned with capitalist rewards. We react with outrage if taxpayer money is used for courses in art, history, literature or philosophy -- as if it isn't a benefit to society to be educated in those areas.
We should be providing free, or affordable, tuition at public universities for students who qualify. An educated society is well worth the investment.
55
"Everybody" mocks English majors, yet they are the ones who teach reading and writing (according to many articles, the skills many major employers value the most). They may jeer at Art majors, yet we enjoy nice design in our expensive gadgets, houses, and furniture. Moreover, peopke want entertainment when they are at leisure: enter Theatre and Film to the scene.
Even in a profit-minded world, the Humanities and Arts serve an important purpose.
Even in a profit-minded world, the Humanities and Arts serve an important purpose.
6
When I lived in Germany -- a few decades ago -- the kids went to school Monday through Friday and a half day on Saturday. After a certain grade, if the children weren't considered college material, they went to vocational school. Vocational training allowed them to get a good job, buy a home and raise a family -- and pay taxes. It was a win-win situation.
4
I had my student loans forgiven when I paid the money back.
9
I received my (convoluted form) letter this month stating that my application is not eligible: "No Eligible Loan Type." After 120 payments, why couldn't FedLoan Servicing been more specific before now? After reading this article, it appears that consolidating my many small loans into one "direct loan" prior to 2007 disqualifies me. If that is the case, people are getting punished for attempting to obtain lower interest rates. I have been teaching in public schools since 2000. It looks like I will be carrying this debt into my sixties. When politicians ask about why the middle class is shrinking they are being disingenuous. The middle class is right here, buried in student loan debt.
10
Please, next time you write about this -?follow the money. Really, follow it until you figure out who's benefiting from the confusing system. Only then will change be possible..
5
Seems like this program has people spending a lot of productive hours on the phone with the loan agents to make sure that their payments are applied properly etc. etc.
It's giving me a headache just thinking about the potential problems that I would have with these loan administration's. And a lot of time on the telephone trying to straighten them out…
It's giving me a headache just thinking about the potential problems that I would have with these loan administration's. And a lot of time on the telephone trying to straighten them out…
2
Every time an article appears on the cost of tuition I say this...but I think it needs to be said.
Tuition for a British student at Oxford or Cambridge is roughly $11,000 a year (£9,000). This is for three years (generally speaking), so the total tuition cost for most Oxbridge undergraduates is about $33,000. Your average University of California (at least last time I checked) was more in the region of $13,000 a year for four years: $52,000.
Americans, frankly, deserve to be treated this way. Do not act like this is something that happened to you without your consent. You voted for Republicans. You voted for 'Blue Dog' Democrats. You got your tax cuts....enjoy them! Just don't come crying when your social services have been completely eviscerated and you live in the most unequal nation in the OECD.
Americans need to stand up and coalesce around a real, genuine progressive agenda. There is NO other solution. 'Incremental' candidates are not going to get you there. At most they will slow the decline, not reverse it. America is in need of a political and socio-cultural revolution. Anything short of revolution will only result in the continued slide into feudalism and oligarchy.
Can you remember anyone in America recently calling for a political revolution? How many people here complaining about tuition were ready to be a part of it? I do wonder.
Tuition for a British student at Oxford or Cambridge is roughly $11,000 a year (£9,000). This is for three years (generally speaking), so the total tuition cost for most Oxbridge undergraduates is about $33,000. Your average University of California (at least last time I checked) was more in the region of $13,000 a year for four years: $52,000.
Americans, frankly, deserve to be treated this way. Do not act like this is something that happened to you without your consent. You voted for Republicans. You voted for 'Blue Dog' Democrats. You got your tax cuts....enjoy them! Just don't come crying when your social services have been completely eviscerated and you live in the most unequal nation in the OECD.
Americans need to stand up and coalesce around a real, genuine progressive agenda. There is NO other solution. 'Incremental' candidates are not going to get you there. At most they will slow the decline, not reverse it. America is in need of a political and socio-cultural revolution. Anything short of revolution will only result in the continued slide into feudalism and oligarchy.
Can you remember anyone in America recently calling for a political revolution? How many people here complaining about tuition were ready to be a part of it? I do wonder.
9
Revolutions come with sacrifices and costs, and apparently a whole lot of people here think getting the latest i-Phone is more important.
Just pay back your loan......please......It took me 25 years to pay mine off.
5
I did, too.
But I wasn't lied to about the terms of my loans.
Big difference.
But I wasn't lied to about the terms of my loans.
Big difference.
13
So if you suffered, others must? You'd rather enforce that than make it easier on other generations to get an education? Given that the labor demands are changing in this country, that many factory jobs now require tertiary education (NYT had an article about that a few days ago), why not make it very easy for everyone to get a college degree, so we can finally eliminate subsidized industries like coal?
3
A healthy functioning democracy is predicated on decent education. It is far from a free luxury, it is a necessity, not a bonus.
We either pay as a society, abdicate the impossible burden on to the individual, or suffer the catastrophic consequences such as the one we're living through right now.
George Bush and the Republicans passed the public student loan forgiveness program in 2007 because they knew that:
1. People need to be incentivized to do the necessary work that isn't compensated as well as other Professions.
2. The student loan industry is going to blow up just like the housing market. Catastrophic consequences for everyone.
Here is an idea. Outstanding student loan debt is 1.2 trillion-ish. Instead of passing an infrastructure plan that is based on privatizing roads and bridges through tax incentives to wealthy corporations; why not take that same trillion and forgive all student debt effective immediately and watch the economy soar. After that, pass sensible laws like the sensible, means tested one that just got passed in NY.
We either pay as a society, abdicate the impossible burden on to the individual, or suffer the catastrophic consequences such as the one we're living through right now.
George Bush and the Republicans passed the public student loan forgiveness program in 2007 because they knew that:
1. People need to be incentivized to do the necessary work that isn't compensated as well as other Professions.
2. The student loan industry is going to blow up just like the housing market. Catastrophic consequences for everyone.
Here is an idea. Outstanding student loan debt is 1.2 trillion-ish. Instead of passing an infrastructure plan that is based on privatizing roads and bridges through tax incentives to wealthy corporations; why not take that same trillion and forgive all student debt effective immediately and watch the economy soar. After that, pass sensible laws like the sensible, means tested one that just got passed in NY.
9
Student loans unfortunately have allowed the colleges to run up debts on 18 year old to the point it has become a national problem. People should pay back what is owed. However, the government since it is heavily involved in the process should have some say in pushing Universities to keep their tuition in check at the inflation rate or less but educational government verses government colleges and cost containment is a oxymoron at best.
6
As a person who had student loans and paid them back, I must say, you should never take out any loan with the expectation that it will be forgiven. This debt forgiveness program is a benefit not unlike a tuition reimbursement program that a private employer might be offering. But unless there is a contract with your name on it like your student loan, the offer could be rescinded at any time. And considering that many government jobs now pay more than comparable jobs in the private sector, it probably should be.
4
Bottom line is that tuition fees are out of control and there is no end in sight. Too many administrators, faculty working limited hours, etc. Higher education needs an overhaul. My father with a modest income put three daughters through private colleges in Michigan in towns away from home and we contributed with summer jobs and then on-campus work to cover the extras. My student loan for grad school (MBA) was $31.66 for 10 years, oh the good old days!
7
I'm not thrilled with the idea that only certain kinds of jobs qualify for loan forgiveness. There should be a path to loan forgiveness for EVERYONE based on income and ability to pay. No one wants to shirk repaying school loans. But when college costs are exorbitant and loans are the only way to get an education and move forward in life - that's what they all say, anyway - then people are really between a rock and a hard place. That's the American way, I guess.
3
Other income-driven repayment programs do offer forgiveness to anyone, but the term is longer and the forgiven amount is taxable. (For now, at least. When people start running up IRS bills that they cannot pay, I expect a reckoning. But that won't happen for another several years at least.)
1
Reading these comments, many who qualify for forgiveness must make "income based" repayments, that pay the loan off in 10 years, hence nothing left to forgive. What was the purpose of this law?
Please read the story again -- the opposite is true.
2
Borrowing for graduate degrees is the biggest financial burden for the government's student loan forgiveness program, because (unlike undergraduate degrees) there are no limits on how much debt students can pile up. Although the Obama administration proposed caps last year, Congress did nothing. Now it looks like the Trump administration will try to cheat graduates instead of getting Congress to fix the problem. And what else did people expect from a president who routinely stiffs his contractors, or from an education secretary who promotes "therapy" that claims to relieve ADHD, autism, and a whole bunch of other stuff? If you vote for quacks, don't be surprised when they rook you.
10
How how in the world are we forgiving all these loans to med students? Is that what people thought when we we decided to forgive loans to workers at a non-profit? Columbia U hospital, really ???
1
I also think the assumption that non-profits and government entities are inherently good and people who work for them are saints working for little money, so they shouldn't have to repay their student loans, and the private sector is bad and people who work there are raking in big bucks, is equally specious. I'll bet a whole lot of the people who are gaming this program are doctors and lawyers who ran up big loans and then work for a government or non-profit entity at "regular pay" for their profession to get a huge loan-forgiveness subsidy when they could be just as productively employed elsewhere if it weren't for the market distortion this creates. As you say, how is working for Columbia University hospital on a doctor's income a hardship? And only people with fairly hefty loans are likely to spend the time to figure all this out and follow all the technical rules for 10 years. If you only owed $10K, it wouldn't be worth all the time and trouble.
7
1. Look up the salary that resident physicians receive.
1.a. Look up the number of hours that residents work.
2. Columbia Presbyterian serves a poor population of patients. Yes it is a world class facility with incredible training and research, but it's TOUGH.
I understand that people do not have a lot of sympathy for physicians. However, please realize that it's not the cushy life that you may think.
1.a. Look up the number of hours that residents work.
2. Columbia Presbyterian serves a poor population of patients. Yes it is a world class facility with incredible training and research, but it's TOUGH.
I understand that people do not have a lot of sympathy for physicians. However, please realize that it's not the cushy life that you may think.
1
The government should consider to "Iraq Solution" and airlift bundles of cash to those with outstanding loans. Put the CIA in charge of the program. At least the money would stay in the United States.
2
Keep in mind the most highly paid government employee in most states is a (millionaire) college basketball coach.
It is the little things added together that cause a course of classes to cost an individual $300,000. Administrators. Program directors. Buildings and real estate. Architects and contractors ...
It is the little things added together that cause a course of classes to cost an individual $300,000. Administrators. Program directors. Buildings and real estate. Architects and contractors ...
3
as much as I dont like the idea of debt forgiveness, allowing kids who made bad decisions to overpay and often party their way to a useless degree in fill-in-the-blank at university of ripoff, I propose a trade;
15 less unneeded F-35 warplanes for about 70% of outstanding student debt PLUS agreement to work in real public sphere and be required to really get their hands dirty. work with homeless people, be given charge over say, 3 blocks in a city that that must help keep clean 1 day a week, work in a national park or for a real 100% pass, go teach in a rural or inner city school for a year. I dont care what you teach, you cant be any less qualified than what they get now. its called leveling.
I always thought the BEST sentence for a wall street or other financial crook was also requiring a leveling experience. make them work a job making no more than $40K/yr and live in a middle class neighborhood, with required community service, rather than sending them to a country club prison. make them live amongst the rabble they so despise and see if it opens their eyes and brings out whatever empathy that have. for bernie madoff, he's probably now be ripping off poor people for hot chocolate but for people with a soul, and for kids who want something for nothing, getting financial redemption to boot, it aint a bad gig.
15 less unneeded F-35 warplanes for about 70% of outstanding student debt PLUS agreement to work in real public sphere and be required to really get their hands dirty. work with homeless people, be given charge over say, 3 blocks in a city that that must help keep clean 1 day a week, work in a national park or for a real 100% pass, go teach in a rural or inner city school for a year. I dont care what you teach, you cant be any less qualified than what they get now. its called leveling.
I always thought the BEST sentence for a wall street or other financial crook was also requiring a leveling experience. make them work a job making no more than $40K/yr and live in a middle class neighborhood, with required community service, rather than sending them to a country club prison. make them live amongst the rabble they so despise and see if it opens their eyes and brings out whatever empathy that have. for bernie madoff, he's probably now be ripping off poor people for hot chocolate but for people with a soul, and for kids who want something for nothing, getting financial redemption to boot, it aint a bad gig.
Although this specific program involves complete loan forgiveness, keep in mind that most federal loan forgiveness programs actually consider the forgiven debt taxable income. So if you consider that medical/dental students graduate with $250K+ in debt on average and 6-8% of interest on federal loans, this is a serious issue that affects the whole economy. These professionals start earning money in their 30's and the salary of residency is really symbolic in perspective of the debt and basically covers living expenses. The payments make only a dent in all the debt due to the high interest rate set by the government, and that prevents these professionals from contributing to the economy. Forgiving the high interest rate would in my opinion accelerate one's ability to pay the student loans and give the opportunity to invest in new practices, large houses and really fuel the economy in ways that this generation now cannot.
2
Thlis er doctor earns 250k a year. What do you mean he can't repay ?
Lady starts a nonprofit with one sole employee- herself !! Kinda like starting your own church eh?
Lady starts a nonprofit with one sole employee- herself !! Kinda like starting your own church eh?
9
My daughter taught for 15 years in an inner-city school. She made her loan payments on time for those 15 years, and more. She applied for the local forgiveness program. Every time she called about it, she received a different answer. She was asked, "How do we know the children in your school are from low-income families?" "Because 99 percent of them qualify for school lunch subsidies." "That's no good enough." So she got more evidence. She filed all necessary paperwork. She kept noticing that the principal on her loan was not going down. She kept calling. Each person told her a different story. She could not get a straight answer. The someone told her she needed to consolidate her loans in order to be eligible for loan forgiveness. "Why would I do that?" she asked. "If I do that, the interest rate will go from 2.9 percent to 6.38 percent." "Right," came the response, "and the 120 on-time payment clock begins again." Most recently, she discovered that the reason that her principal was not decreasing was that someone at the loan servicing place had, without her permission, put her loan into FORBEARANCE, meaning, she's been paying INTEREST ONLY for all this time! This is fraud. The last person she spoke to told her she should file fraud claims against them. She has spoken to her U.S. senator's office about this. I say she needs to talk to her state attorney general. I doubt that AG Sessions would be any help at all. What a scam.
23
" I doubt that AG Sessions would be any help at all. What a scam."
It's a federal program so why would you avoid the federal Attorney General? Do you think a state AG is going to be effective in mounting a federal investigation? Whether you like a person or his political beliefs you ask help wherever it's possible to get it.
It's a federal program so why would you avoid the federal Attorney General? Do you think a state AG is going to be effective in mounting a federal investigation? Whether you like a person or his political beliefs you ask help wherever it's possible to get it.
1
This is not a priority for Sessions. We had called his office and they said it's "not on their agenda." Perhaps this article may change that.
The commenters who feel obliged to share their own virtuous stories of how they signed up for the military or worked evening jobs or had parental support to clear their college debt -- usually harking back to a time when tuition was much cheaper -- miss the point in a big way.
Certain jobs require professional qualifications. Those jobs will pay significantly less than the prevailing market rate if they are in certain locations and deal with certain populations. If you have a mortgage's worth of debt to pay back, and no hope of ever doing so in rural Nebraska vs a coastal city, then the jobs in rural Nebraska won't be filled.
Debt forgiveness is not an ideal solution -- an Australian-style graduate tax would be preferable -- but it's better to have these graduates spending their money on actual mortgages.
Certain jobs require professional qualifications. Those jobs will pay significantly less than the prevailing market rate if they are in certain locations and deal with certain populations. If you have a mortgage's worth of debt to pay back, and no hope of ever doing so in rural Nebraska vs a coastal city, then the jobs in rural Nebraska won't be filled.
Debt forgiveness is not an ideal solution -- an Australian-style graduate tax would be preferable -- but it's better to have these graduates spending their money on actual mortgages.
14
“If anyone had said, ‘Check your loans,’ it would have put me on notice,” Dr. Amjadi said. Now, he’s got a balance of $40,000 and has missed out on years of eligibility for forgiveness.
This was a poor example. According to www.fedsdatacenter.com, Mr. Amjadi makes $242K per year. He should pay back the $40K loan. It would be nice if he also paid back the federal government for his highly subsidized medical education.
This was a poor example. According to www.fedsdatacenter.com, Mr. Amjadi makes $242K per year. He should pay back the $40K loan. It would be nice if he also paid back the federal government for his highly subsidized medical education.
3
His salary would have something to do with the article if the article was about whether the program should have income caps or debt forgiveness caps. But that's not what the article was about. It was about whether people are getting good information about when and how they qualify and what they should do. And he got lousy information.
5
When are we going to realize that college tuition is through the roof BECAUSE OF federal loan programs? Colleges have been able to raise their price year after year because students & their parents are willing to borrow huge sums of money and take a significant gamble on and with their future income. Stop the insanity.
13
Actually, the cost of tuition has gone up because funding has been cut for education. Loans had nothing to do with it - they've been around for more than 50 years. Tuition costs have skyrocketed only very recently, especially for state schools where federal and state funding is important.
1
This is just unrealistic. If it were true, colleges would be swimming in cash. Instead, faculty go a decade or more without even COL raises, buildings degrade, small colleges close and large state schools suffer. We've had so many rounds of budget cuts that nobody has phones anymore, half the photocopiers have been removed and the classroom IT is a decade old or more. Meanwhile, that tuition rate students pay isn't even the full cost of their attendance. It's usually already subsidized by the endowment.
Although I have mixed feelings about the loan forgiveness program, having paid off my own school loans when I went to school, I would still rather bail out students who are gainfully employed in public service types of jobs than all the money we spent bailing out greedy bankers so they could rip us all off again.
32
All of the "bailouts" were loans and in aggregate all was paid back with interest and profit. So we didn't "spend" any money on greedy bankers. Many lenders went bankrupt in the crisis causing investors tens of billions in permanent losses. Even some of the private "bailout" investments by big investors lost billions (see Washington Mutual). Some banks are still down 90% from before the crisis now almost 10 years later. Citigroup for example. Investors didn't lose "everything" but pretty damn close. The word "bailout" is very unfortunate. Sounds like a gift but it wasn't. I hate student loans but forgiveness is a slippery slope.
2
The banks had to repay their bailout money, plus interest. The banks weren't just given free money as is commonly thought. Look into it. But, the government, in many cases, gave subsidized loans to these students. I know, because just like you, I had student loans and paid them back. Why should these students be let off the hook? They weren't promised anything other than a loan, which they promised to pay back when they signed the documents.
6
If the US were not such a viciously-capitalist nation, a high-quality education would be free -- or at least affordable. Today, it definitely is neither. Medical education in particular is ridiculously expensive - the example in this article is of a doctor with $330,000 in student loan debt. Many other countries have realized that they should actually encourage medical education and they make it available for free. Having more doctors, and giving those doctors the option of going into the less well-paid specialties, is a benefit to society as a whole. When debt burdens are unconscionably high, doctors are forced to chose only the higher-paid specialties. That's not good for society. Putting young professionals in deep debt is vicious and self-defeating, IMHO. The days of indentured servitude should be over, but in America today, they are not. Beyond that, it is certainly NOT OK for the government to lie or to deceive students and young professionals whether deliberately or by having complex or obscure laws and regulations that would require the students to have 10 lawyers to understand their meaning! No excuse is acceptable here for the disastrously-expensive higher education system in the US today -- for which the federal government bears enormous responsibility! If the federal government doesn't step in to straighten out this mess, who else can?
20
It's free in Cuba. But the government tells if you if you can attend and what you can study. Is that ok with you? The reason college is so expensive is because government stepped in and subsidized demand without doing anything to increase supply.
1
Every Cuban citizen has free and easy access to primary care doctors right in their own neighborhood. Cuba educates so many doctors that it supplies doctors to many Latin American countries and even provides professors of medicine to medical colleges around the world. Most people in the USA have no idea that this is the case. Congratulations to you if you did. ARTICLE: Why Some Students Are Ditching America for Medical School in Cuba. "...Consider Cuba’s medical system, which punches far above its weight. The country’s GDP per is just one-tenth of the US’s,1 and it lacks access to drugs and equipment thanks to the US trade embargo. But life expectancy in Cuba is actually just above that of its northern neighbor. How? By focusing on preventive medicine for everyone under a national healthcare system." https://www.wired.com/2016/03/students-ditching-america-medical-school-c...
1
I oppose forgiveness of student loan debt. I have paid all of mine off. Everyone else should too. I did not have a lot. I took out a loan one year to cover living expenses when my scholarship to the University to Washington only covered tuition. Otherwise money that my grandfather left for me paid for my college education. I believe that unless one majors in a subject that will lead to a gainful career should take out a loan. I am against politicians, like Sanders and Clinton, who campaign for free public college education. They only campaign on such promises to get the college age vote, just like all other promises of free this and that. Believe me, there's no such thing as a free lunch, you will pay one way or another. Thank you.
12
If only everyone had such a grandfather, especially those who do not have a lot.
On another note, are you advocating for an elitist society, given that only the elite would be able to study the humanities, given that a degree in Greek antiquity might not lead to what you believe is a gainful career.
On another note, are you advocating for an elitist society, given that only the elite would be able to study the humanities, given that a degree in Greek antiquity might not lead to what you believe is a gainful career.
1
But what about people who are TRYING to pay their loans back and have had problem after problem with the loan servicing agents? This has nothing to do with Sanders and Clinton and "free college tuition." Every time you write, you try to bring in Sanders and Clinton and "giveaways." You are fortunate that your grandfather left you money to pay for your college. My children did not major in subjects that did not lead to a gainful career; they have been working hard to pay back their loans. My son even worked two jobs while going to grad school at night. I paid for my own college as well, but I worked full-time and went to college at night. No one gave me a free college education. I am the first person to have graduated from college in my entire family history. I had no inheritance to pay for college, and neither did my kids. So for you, who started on third base, and were able to score a college education, thanks to fortunate circumstances, to criticize people who start in the on-deck circle, and have to work hard to get their chances at bat is quite disingenuous.
Most people don't have money left to them. And I'd rather live in a society with a functioning middle class thank you very much. And if that means that basic schooling needs to routinely run past the twelfth grade then so be it.
2
Free higher ed like single-payer healthcare, is the only answer. Tax the corporations and the rich appropriately. A culture based on personal selfishness will ultimately collapse.
13
Why should not everyone who borrows money be obligated to repay it?
18
Because this is America where no one has to keep their word, where honesty, decency, forthrightness and responsibility are out of fashion.
16
Why do large corporations often pay no tax?
Why do wealthy homeowners receive $150 billion subsidy each year through the mortgage interest deduction?
Why should people who don't drive pay for road expansion?
Why isn't there a draft so every family will shed their fair share of blood for our freedom?
Why isn't life fair?
Why do wealthy homeowners receive $150 billion subsidy each year through the mortgage interest deduction?
Why should people who don't drive pay for road expansion?
Why isn't there a draft so every family will shed their fair share of blood for our freedom?
Why isn't life fair?
1
See if you're like Donnie the Con you just declare bankruptcy or shift money over seas and screw the little guy.
After my daughter had finished her residency and fellowship and a few more years as an attending at a teaching hospital in an underserved area in Chicago she found out her subsidized Stafford loans could not be forgiven after ten years because they were the "wrong type" of loan. Wouldn't it have been awesome if they told her that when she accepted them? She ended up refinancing them with Sofi for a way lower interest rate than the government offered and will have them paid off and not forgiven.
6
I don't know if this is the case with your daughter, but I had to consolidate all of my federal loans into the Department of Ed's Direct Loan program. The loans must be Direct Loans, although mine were not (or maybe a small number of mine were) when they were originated. I'm assuming she has already researched the issue, but I thought I would mention this just in case you and her are not aware.
2
Why is it that when the government gives you the wrong information they are even allowed to walk it back? Making a mistake with a credit card payment gets you immediate and correct feedback. Surely we are giving federal employees a paycheck for which we are right to expect professional service and an administration that will stand behind its word.
26
With all due respect, how about teachers as well. public servants of all ilk deserve clarity on this progress and minimally a small break. What is advertised as loan forgiveness is actually loan obfuscation. when we stop politicizing public service, including teaching, firefighting, law enforcement, and student loans, and focus on cultivating and nurturing the commitment to such and actually following through it might make a difference. the whole program is a sham.
2
Teachers are eligible. Please find out what the program actually entails before making assumptions.
10
Did you read the article? The point is that technically having access to these programs doesn't mean much when there are so many bureaucratic barriers in place, making it confusing for the average borrower to navigate.
Fabric recycling, you have got to be kidding me. If successful, Ms. Schreiber should write a companion to Abbie Hoffman's Steal This Book.
16
My thoughts exactly. If ever there were a rags to riches scheme, this is it.
13
Well, actually, municipalities gain by keeping fabrics out of the trash. Just as we are required (in my area) to keep electronics and hazardous wastes separated, we are also requested to separate fabric items for separate handling. Some of this would include worn out curtains, or bed linens for instance,requiring special reprocessing, and some might be actual yard goods that can be used as is. If she can handle these goods for the City cheaply, it can reduce handling costs.
1
Actually, Cheryl, Ms. Shreiber appears cool, calm and collected w/o obvious sign of panic so whether the City benefits or not, she will be successful. By joining the rest of us in fulfilling contractual obligations her future credit score wlll be a positive topic in any conversation and an example to her peers.
1
I found out about this program too late, although I have worked for non profit hospitals since graduating from medical school.
After a very complicated application process that included reconsolidating my loans into a direct loan, I realized that I would have to make income based repayments (which meant that my loan would be paid off before 10 years so there would be nothing left to forgive). The whole process took many many hours and was unnecessarily complicated. It would have been nice if there was a tool where one could calculate whether it is worth it to even apply.
That being said, once I was accepted into the PSLF program, everything was laid out very clearly. I would have to make income based payments, prove my employer was still eligible on a yearly basis, and make sure I had a direct loan. With the amount of explanatory emails I was receiving, I find it hard to believe that the people referenced in the article were given no information.
After a very complicated application process that included reconsolidating my loans into a direct loan, I realized that I would have to make income based repayments (which meant that my loan would be paid off before 10 years so there would be nothing left to forgive). The whole process took many many hours and was unnecessarily complicated. It would have been nice if there was a tool where one could calculate whether it is worth it to even apply.
That being said, once I was accepted into the PSLF program, everything was laid out very clearly. I would have to make income based payments, prove my employer was still eligible on a yearly basis, and make sure I had a direct loan. With the amount of explanatory emails I was receiving, I find it hard to believe that the people referenced in the article were given no information.
6
You should do an article about negative amortization of these loans. For example, you can have a loan of say $190K for law school at 6-8% interest rate. So now you owe $240K despite paying for $80K already (in the course of seven years) because you were under IBR.
14
I enlisted in the military right after high school. Guess what: after my enlistment was up, I was eligible for enough cash, on a monthly basis, to support myself thru college. Along with a part-time job ( very related to my major) I did well, and graduated debt-free. Just saying.
16
I tried to get into the military but was denied because of a back problem I was unaware of until the pre-enrollment physical discovered it. So this option is not available to many of us who would have liked to use it.
6
Thanks for your service. There should be ways to achieve professional qualifications with relatively low debt without having to enlist in the military. Just saying.
3
In addition, loans are never "forgiven." Their costs are just passed on to someone else. In this case, future US taxpayers.
The US should abolish the Department of Education before it commits more of this financial lunacy.
The US should abolish the Department of Education before it commits more of this financial lunacy.
14
Nobody cares about taxpayers. Just soak them some more...Bleed them till there's nothing but bones left. Why ? Because todays young people are OWED everything.
5
Millennials are facing much more difficult economic landscape than the past few generations.
1
Well they certainly aren't passed onto Donald trump. He doesn't pay taxes.
This program is a perfect example of why the United States government is hurtling toward bankruptcy. Total insanity.
And as other commentators have suggested, this program is in effect a massive additional subsidy to colleges and universities which allow them to further inflate their tuition for the remaining few paying full freight.
And as other commentators have suggested, this program is in effect a massive additional subsidy to colleges and universities which allow them to further inflate their tuition for the remaining few paying full freight.
22
As a father that paid >$325,000 for my sons' tuitions, where do I go to get my money back?
12
No where sorry.
Glad for you that you had that much to spend.
Myself, I'd recommend two years at a community college and two years at the State University. A good GPA will then get your kid a grad school scholarship in a STEM field.
Glad for you that you had that much to spend.
Myself, I'd recommend two years at a community college and two years at the State University. A good GPA will then get your kid a grad school scholarship in a STEM field.
13
I know two cases where it was forgiven: In one, the daughter died, and the father sued to have the loan be forgiven, even though it was under his name. You don't want that. In the other case, the father died. And since the loan was under his name, the loan was forgiven. You don't want that either.
With Loan forgiveness and parents loans for college, where is the incentive for colleges to reduce tuition.
25
Loan forgiveness for select fields is a poor idea. Fairness, why should the taxpayers subsidize the educational cost of some individuals and leave others entirely on the their own? Cost, yet another way to drive up the cost of higher education and encourage borrowing far beyond what a student could ever realistically expect to repay. Outstanding student loan debt is already a bubble that threatens to burst at some not too distant point. It's not going to be pretty.
A better approach would be to cap the maximum a student (and the student's family) can borrow based on a formula that takes into account expected future earnings and average cost for a similar degree at a basket of public and private universities and colleges. The solution to the exorbitant cost of education is not to throw money at the problem. Better to start throttling the supply.
A better approach would be to cap the maximum a student (and the student's family) can borrow based on a formula that takes into account expected future earnings and average cost for a similar degree at a basket of public and private universities and colleges. The solution to the exorbitant cost of education is not to throw money at the problem. Better to start throttling the supply.
13
Until med school provides retroactive discounts based upon the field and geographical region its graduates enter, this is pie in the sky.
Rural West Virginia needs doctors. Ideally ones that don't hand out pain pills like popsicles.
Rural West Virginia needs doctors. Ideally ones that don't hand out pain pills like popsicles.
I went to an instate public medical school and I graduated with $250k in debt (now $300k). Luckily, I had some solid advice from now non-existent GL Advisor, consolidated my debt the right way and started making qualifying payments right away (in residency when most defer payments). Once I graduated residency, I submitted the PSLF application and all of my loans transferred from MOHELA back to the feds. I resubmit the application at least yearly. Recently, I asked for my qualifying payments summary (that I got 2 months later) and I'm more than halfway. I was so happy, I put it up on the refrigerator.
I chose to go into a low paying field in medicine that is very much in need of more physicians. I felt vaguely comfortable knowing that my student loan debt would be forgiven. I'm hedging my bets. Biggest gamble of my life. If my loans aren't forgiven, I am going to need to reconsider my life choices. Perhaps go "rogue" and join BigPharma.
I can definitely see my fellow physicians thinking naively that they have the right loans, making the right kind of payment, working for the right kind of non-profit. Doctors are smart, but student loan debt can give anyone an anxiety attack.
I chose to go into a low paying field in medicine that is very much in need of more physicians. I felt vaguely comfortable knowing that my student loan debt would be forgiven. I'm hedging my bets. Biggest gamble of my life. If my loans aren't forgiven, I am going to need to reconsider my life choices. Perhaps go "rogue" and join BigPharma.
I can definitely see my fellow physicians thinking naively that they have the right loans, making the right kind of payment, working for the right kind of non-profit. Doctors are smart, but student loan debt can give anyone an anxiety attack.
67
I am in the same boat, keeping our fingers crossed that the government holds up its end of the bargain.
4
I was so grateful to GL Advisor too and am sorry to hear the company is no more. I don't know what I would've done without their advice - it saved me.
The income-driven repayment plans contain a penalty for married persons. If they file a joint tax return, the spouse's income counts against them. If they file separately, both may end up paying a lot more income tax.
9
This is exactly the dilemma my husband and I face. I don't have any student loans, but he does. So we file separately, and just pay the extra taxes. What he would pay if we filed together would be almost impossible to pay. We don't have kids and can't afford a down payment on a home, so I dread tax time.
7
It's a shame that the program has to be so intricately and unnecessarily complicated. That said, I'm more amused - well, in a negative way - to learn a few things from the article:
(a) For someone to start her own "nonprofit," be the sole employee (and founder), and turn around to ask for loan forgiveness. That smells fishy.
(b) For someone to plan on the student loan borrowing - and borrow big time - counting on the expectation that the loan will be forgiven in ten years' time, if s/he takes the right action. According to my book, if you take out a loan, you should fully expect to pay it back, one way or the other.
I know how hard it's like to bootstrap to get an education. I grew up in a family where we lived in a small studio apartment with the seven of us. Parents expected us to do well in school, and we worked our way to and through college. I worked 3+ part time jobs while taking on full-time student load. (I was too ignorant to realize I could have applied for financial aid, though I did get a few scholarship.) I never asked for a dime from my parents or loans of any kind. I graduated with no student loan burden. The same goes with my brothers and sisters in the family, all of which eventually got our masters and PhD's, none of us incurred any debt or any familial assistance.
To those who complain that it's too hard and government is too unforgiving, I would only say, it can be done, and student debts is not the only way. Work to pay for yourself, that's how.
(a) For someone to start her own "nonprofit," be the sole employee (and founder), and turn around to ask for loan forgiveness. That smells fishy.
(b) For someone to plan on the student loan borrowing - and borrow big time - counting on the expectation that the loan will be forgiven in ten years' time, if s/he takes the right action. According to my book, if you take out a loan, you should fully expect to pay it back, one way or the other.
I know how hard it's like to bootstrap to get an education. I grew up in a family where we lived in a small studio apartment with the seven of us. Parents expected us to do well in school, and we worked our way to and through college. I worked 3+ part time jobs while taking on full-time student load. (I was too ignorant to realize I could have applied for financial aid, though I did get a few scholarship.) I never asked for a dime from my parents or loans of any kind. I graduated with no student loan burden. The same goes with my brothers and sisters in the family, all of which eventually got our masters and PhD's, none of us incurred any debt or any familial assistance.
To those who complain that it's too hard and government is too unforgiving, I would only say, it can be done, and student debts is not the only way. Work to pay for yourself, that's how.
10
I paid back my college loans, but that was over 25 years ago. For those like Tiddle who want to compare their experience from years gone by, here are some statistics from US News on increases in tuition over the past 20 years. It's a lot more than "cost of living" increases.
*The average tuition and fees at private National Universities jumped 179 percent.
*Out-of-state tuition and fees at public universities rose 226 percent since 1995.
*In-state tuition and fees at public National Universities grew the most, increasing a staggering 296 percent. https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articl...
I've seen plenty of students graduate with over $200,000 of debt and a degree that won't get them a full time job.
*The average tuition and fees at private National Universities jumped 179 percent.
*Out-of-state tuition and fees at public universities rose 226 percent since 1995.
*In-state tuition and fees at public National Universities grew the most, increasing a staggering 296 percent. https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articl...
I've seen plenty of students graduate with over $200,000 of debt and a degree that won't get them a full time job.
9
When did you attend college, 1965?
@Liz, no it's not from the 1960s, I can tell you that. But it surely helps if you're in the STEM field, and the part time jobs I took paid well while boosting my resume even before I graduated from college. But if you're taking out student loans big time to fund some liberal arts discipline at some for-profit no-name school, with part time jobs flipping burgers, then god-help-you to ever repay the student debt or even finding a decent entry-level jobs.
Life is full of choices, every one of which can be impactful. I was sharing my story/thoughts with the least intention of bragging, but more a hurrah to bootstrapping our way in life. Afterall isn't that what we've all been expecting it to be, the American way? That you work hard, you keep at it, you'll likely make it?
Well, there's no guarantee to success, but at least we try, right? Thrashing others with green envy is not going to help you repaying those loans one bit.
Life is full of choices, every one of which can be impactful. I was sharing my story/thoughts with the least intention of bragging, but more a hurrah to bootstrapping our way in life. Afterall isn't that what we've all been expecting it to be, the American way? That you work hard, you keep at it, you'll likely make it?
Well, there's no guarantee to success, but at least we try, right? Thrashing others with green envy is not going to help you repaying those loans one bit.
1
Judging from most of the comments, Americans hate people who don't pay their debts. Yet we elected a businessman who somehow became a billionaire bankrupting and refusing to pay contractors. Very confusing.
197
Donald Trump never filed for bankruptcy as an individual. One of his companies did, about 27 years ago. Bankruptcy is a tool provided by law to serve important policy objectives. It is entirely legal, as is the desire to minimize (not "evade") one's tax.
The Bankruptcy Code was amended some years ago to preclude discharge of student loans in other than extreme circumstances. Debate if you will whether that was wise or just, but avoid careless and facile characterization of the President's financial past.
The Bankruptcy Code was amended some years ago to preclude discharge of student loans in other than extreme circumstances. Debate if you will whether that was wise or just, but avoid careless and facile characterization of the President's financial past.
4
Somehow it just doesn't sound any better to say that Trump's lifestyle has been luxurious compared to a lot of small business owners and employees who ended up with business ties or working for his companies. Legal and ethical just don't come down to the same thing.
3
Trump went bankrupt 6 times and used it as a tool to not pay people.
16
There's another caveat to "The Right Way to Pay" that was not mentioned in this article: payments cannot be made in advance. This becomes an issue for those whose employers are making payments on their behalf (as some Federal agencies do) when the payments exceed the monthly due amount.
In my case, without realizing it, my payments jumped ahead during a three-pay period month. A year-and-a-half later, I was shocked to find out from FedLoan that only a few of my payments over that period qualified toward PSLF. Luckily, a FedLoan representative offered to initiate a "manual recount" process, which corrected the situation and got me full credit for that period. (But I had to speak to two representatives to get a solution. The first one offered nothing.)
Two PSLF lessons: Ensure that you are not paying in advance (especially if your employer is paying on your behalf), and be persistent in seeking out knowledgeable FedLoan representatives!
In my case, without realizing it, my payments jumped ahead during a three-pay period month. A year-and-a-half later, I was shocked to find out from FedLoan that only a few of my payments over that period qualified toward PSLF. Luckily, a FedLoan representative offered to initiate a "manual recount" process, which corrected the situation and got me full credit for that period. (But I had to speak to two representatives to get a solution. The first one offered nothing.)
Two PSLF lessons: Ensure that you are not paying in advance (especially if your employer is paying on your behalf), and be persistent in seeking out knowledgeable FedLoan representatives!
29
Thank you for providing this information. I recently joined a federal agency that provides loan repayment for federal loans. I have not received any payments, yet, but I was curious about the logistics and how this program works with the PSLF program.
5
BK - Your agency will directly pay the servicer each pay period in equal installments, up to the annual total you selected (typically $10k). Taxes will be deducted automatically from your paycheck, as these payments are viewed as ordinary income. You will want to push your payment due date to the end of the month so that during 2 PP months you get both payments in before or shortly after the due date. You must unselect any automated payments you had set up with the servicer, otherwise you'll be paying way too much. Depending on how much you request and what your payments are, you may need to pay a bit more to complete the monthly payment, or you may want to request less so that you're not overpaying, thereby increasing your tax burden just to pay off debt that you intend to be forgiven one day.
We can have public procurement corruption, pilot-killing F-35s, and a tax system that leaves the super-rich off the hook. What we can never, ever have is reasonably priced education. Or at least that's what conservatives and neoliberals insist. Please ignore the fact that public higher education was cheap 30 years ago and could be paid for by a part-time summer job before that. We need to accept that education must be paid for with sweat and tears. Otherwise, how will businesswomen/politicians like Betsy privatise the rest of the education system? They don't intend to make you pay up front. First, you'll get vouchers. Then the vouchers will turn into loans. Pretty soon, you'll be $300,000 in debt just to pay for public elementery school. Oh, you'll also have old-timers telling you how they paid their own way through elementary school and walked up the hill both ways.
25
"First, you'll get vouchers. Then the vouchers will turn into loans. Pretty soon, you'll be $300,000 in debt just to pay for public elementary school."
Chilling. And probably correct.
Chilling. And probably correct.
I think the federal government should get out of the loan forgiveness programs. Let the private companies or banks to deal with it.
I don't like government gives out our "tax money" as "free money" in exchange of someone providing public services. There are plenty of people who are willing to serve the public and do a decent service for the people. Never underestimate our determination to sacrifice for the greater good.
I don't like government gives out our "tax money" as "free money" in exchange of someone providing public services. There are plenty of people who are willing to serve the public and do a decent service for the people. Never underestimate our determination to sacrifice for the greater good.
7
People also want to earn a living wage and not have hundreds of thousands!! of dollars of debt too. It's easy to say people will sacrifice when it's not you destroying your financial future, and there's never enough of them. Shouldn't we incentivize people to do public works? Isn't that what government is for?
Private companies won't do loan forgiveness for good works. That's not how they roll- they just want to earn money. Governments aren't in it to make a profit, they're in it to protect the general welfare. Consider loan forgiveness a type of wage someone earns in exchange for providing public services, since that's basically what it is. It's not "free money", it's a benefit for taking a certain type of job in a free market exchange of labor for capital.
Private companies won't do loan forgiveness for good works. That's not how they roll- they just want to earn money. Governments aren't in it to make a profit, they're in it to protect the general welfare. Consider loan forgiveness a type of wage someone earns in exchange for providing public services, since that's basically what it is. It's not "free money", it's a benefit for taking a certain type of job in a free market exchange of labor for capital.
12
So basically, you are relying on exploiting those who are socially conscious and want to improve the welfare of a society. Is that right? There are jobs in public service that are enough as they are. Why can't society as a whole consider that a valuable good and pay for it? It's not the government that pays, it is society. Why would be espect anyone to work for less than they are worth? Why do expect public servants to do charity for US? For that's what they do when you don't compensate them properly: they are the ones subsidizing the wellbeing of society. If you expect a well-educated teacher to get all the credentials, then you ought to make it possible for the teacher to make a decent living and not worry day in and day out about those loans. And teachers require that education: they can't improvise or forgo a college education.
If we value education, health, safety, then we must make it possible for people to join those careers and make a decent living doing so. Loan forgiveness is one of the ways the community at large rewards these professionals for providing a social good and not focusing on the maximization of personal profit.
If we value education, health, safety, then we must make it possible for people to join those careers and make a decent living doing so. Loan forgiveness is one of the ways the community at large rewards these professionals for providing a social good and not focusing on the maximization of personal profit.
2
Employees in public service sectors pay taxes as well. We contribute to our own paychecks and, in this case, loans as well.
I had a friend who worked at a domestic violence nonprofit 501c3 in social work and she was frantic because her first payment was coming due on her student loans and it was much more than she could afford. I asked her if she had applied to an income driven repayment program (I had read an article) and she did not know what I was talking about. Being an accountant, I helped her through the application process and then asked her if she knew about loan forgiveness. Again she did not know what I was talking about.and again I stepped her through what she needed to do.
The government really needs to let these people know that these programs are available and give them assistance when they need it.
The government really needs to let these people know that these programs are available and give them assistance when they need it.
44
As the statistics that Rohit Chopra pointed to suggest, there are an enormous number of qualifying people who have no idea that this exists. Tell more friends.
11
I don't see this as being the government's fault. Your friend took out the loans so the burden is on her to educate herself about repayment terms and instances of forgiveness.
1
Hi Ron,
From everything that I was taught/told before taking out loans (before I signed any paperwork) it was made very clear to me that the school's financial aid office is to provide post education counseling. Any borrower who takers out a loan that would potentially be eligible for forgiveness is required to take a "quiz" (known as counseling) that they must pass before their funds are disbursed. It is the school that reminds the student to fill out the qualifying documents, but the counseling lesson is provided by the Education Dept.
Loans are processed through private administrators, but anytime I need advice or apply for a program like income based repayment or job forgiveness I must contact my school. The forms come from FedLoan, but the school must approve everything. The school actually contacts Fedloan directly to give their "approval." In fact, it is an individual school that makes these decisions.
I might be incorrect, but I would investigate. It's strange that no one is mentioning that school approve and provide "guidance" for all matters...Fedloan just bills you.
From everything that I was taught/told before taking out loans (before I signed any paperwork) it was made very clear to me that the school's financial aid office is to provide post education counseling. Any borrower who takers out a loan that would potentially be eligible for forgiveness is required to take a "quiz" (known as counseling) that they must pass before their funds are disbursed. It is the school that reminds the student to fill out the qualifying documents, but the counseling lesson is provided by the Education Dept.
Loans are processed through private administrators, but anytime I need advice or apply for a program like income based repayment or job forgiveness I must contact my school. The forms come from FedLoan, but the school must approve everything. The school actually contacts Fedloan directly to give their "approval." In fact, it is an individual school that makes these decisions.
I might be incorrect, but I would investigate. It's strange that no one is mentioning that school approve and provide "guidance" for all matters...Fedloan just bills you.
What strikes me is that taxpayers are always on the hook. We either must pay so that the govt can better fund universities or we end up paying to forgive loans when the costs are passed on to the students.
We can lower our individual risk of getting stuck with massive debt and pass on less burden to society by making better choices individually about money. We should be more critical about what we are actually paying for when we choose a particular college. Maybe this collective action will even persuade universities to spend less on enticing perks that have nothing to do with the quality of education provided.
My own student loan experience (less drastic than those in the article) and national events like this one will cause me to think very carefully about spending decisions on higher education if\when I have kids.
We can lower our individual risk of getting stuck with massive debt and pass on less burden to society by making better choices individually about money. We should be more critical about what we are actually paying for when we choose a particular college. Maybe this collective action will even persuade universities to spend less on enticing perks that have nothing to do with the quality of education provided.
My own student loan experience (less drastic than those in the article) and national events like this one will cause me to think very carefully about spending decisions on higher education if\when I have kids.
10
Not only are taxpayers "on the hook", but this is one of the most financially inefficient ways to pay for a student's education. If the taxpayers are going to provide $80,000 toward an education, why force the borrower to pay 10 years' worth of interest before doing so? Of course, this is by design, because it funnels profits from interest to the banks.
2
There are an array of public service jobs that are vital components of a functioning democracy. I am a lawyer. I have six figures of law school debt. I represent indigent defendants. I also recognize that prosecutors, legal aid attorneys, social workers, teachers, firefighters, police officers, and many, many other dedicated public servants rely on the CCRA. We can not have a society without well educated, caring, and competent professionals to fill those roles.
The CCRA of 2007 allows people who dedicate 10 years of their lives (while making payments on their loans) to public service to have the balance of their loans forgiven. It is not, as some have suggested, a "freebie." The work is difficult, often exhausting, and, contrary to popular belief, not easy to obtain.
When I applied to law school the CCRA was in effect and I read the requirements thoroughly. I did the research and decided it made economic sense for me to go to law school given the way the program worked and what I knew I wanted to do. I have made my payments on time, every month.
To the commenters whose self-righteous selfishness leads them to believe that hordes of us are seeking to sponge a freebie off the government, I assure you, you are not adequately informed. We need public services to have a functioning society. I do agree that tuition is out of control; but gutting student loan forgiveness for people who have followed the rules of the program is not the way to do it.
The CCRA of 2007 allows people who dedicate 10 years of their lives (while making payments on their loans) to public service to have the balance of their loans forgiven. It is not, as some have suggested, a "freebie." The work is difficult, often exhausting, and, contrary to popular belief, not easy to obtain.
When I applied to law school the CCRA was in effect and I read the requirements thoroughly. I did the research and decided it made economic sense for me to go to law school given the way the program worked and what I knew I wanted to do. I have made my payments on time, every month.
To the commenters whose self-righteous selfishness leads them to believe that hordes of us are seeking to sponge a freebie off the government, I assure you, you are not adequately informed. We need public services to have a functioning society. I do agree that tuition is out of control; but gutting student loan forgiveness for people who have followed the rules of the program is not the way to do it.
139
The other option would be to pay all public and nonprofit employees private sector wages. If tax payers shelled out to pay public defenders and judges and the rest the $200,000 a year their law firm compatriots do, instead of $50,000 they earn now, then maybe we wouldn't need the loan forgiveness program.
9
Yes, I am a snarky comment her; but I agree with you entirely… And even understand the article a little better from your Real life explanation of the system. Thank you! PS did you have to be a lawyer?snark Snark
Eliminate all federal loans and federal backed / guaranteed loans and tuition will become afforadable again. If the kids could not borrow the money the schools could not charge what they do. Same with mortgages. The easy money created the housing bubbles.
23
New question: I am now retired and living primarily on Social Security. Between 2004 and 2007, I annually took out Parent Plus loans for my son to attend and major in Music (French Horn and English) at NYU. The head of NYU's Brass Department convinced me that our son would have many "gigs" that would him to help pay back his loan. Hogwash!
When my son graduated in 2008, he obtained his Master's degree from The New England Conservatory in Boston, MA in 2010, he had wracked up his own graduate bills, which I never ask about. He works four different jobs in the Boston area, many with very poor kids in the Boston area, but I, and I alone, pay $555.61 monthly to Sallie Mae, but it means that my Social Security is less than that amount every single month. Calling Sallie Mae is like calling hell; is there anything I can do to lessen these monthly payments?
When my son graduated in 2008, he obtained his Master's degree from The New England Conservatory in Boston, MA in 2010, he had wracked up his own graduate bills, which I never ask about. He works four different jobs in the Boston area, many with very poor kids in the Boston area, but I, and I alone, pay $555.61 monthly to Sallie Mae, but it means that my Social Security is less than that amount every single month. Calling Sallie Mae is like calling hell; is there anything I can do to lessen these monthly payments?
13
The best and only way is for your son to make the payments for you. Parent Plus loans are really just private loans from the gov't. They will be with you until paid off or your dead.
6
Wow, i didn't know there was such a career path for majoring in music (French Horn and English mind you) at one of the most expensive universities in the country.
Silly me, i just got a degree in advertising and make 80k a year as a senior designer.
And i paid back all my loans on my own.
Silly me, i just got a degree in advertising and make 80k a year as a senior designer.
And i paid back all my loans on my own.
11
Which is great if we want to have a society filled with ad people instead of musicians. Frankly, that sounds hellish
18
I do not see one comment in this thread (or in the article) that addresses the fact that Navient (formally Sallie Mae) has been popped in at least three Department of Justice investigations over the last couple of years. One for fleecing active duty personal, another for intentionally misapplying loan payments in an effort to stretch out the loans, and a third that seems to be only described as "misleading business practices." Perhaps there are more.
In a very serious way, we are talking about loan sharking students who are trying to follow (what they have been told is) one of the most conventional paths to middle class status. I hope the "personal responsibility" crowd can forgive me if I don't fall in line. But I feel no "moral obligation" to fulfill the terms of scam.
In a very serious way, we are talking about loan sharking students who are trying to follow (what they have been told is) one of the most conventional paths to middle class status. I hope the "personal responsibility" crowd can forgive me if I don't fall in line. But I feel no "moral obligation" to fulfill the terms of scam.
40
I thought I had an opinion on the matter reading the article, but the comments pull in every direction and leave me wondering whether the point is only that public universities in this country need far lower tuitions so that any borrowing done by students can be minimal.
9
It is ridiculous that physicians would qualify for loan forgiveness. The majority of hospitals in this country are nonprofit, and so loan forgiveness, in theory, would be automatic for doctors, who earn well into the six figures. Some earn seven figures, or close to it, after ten years.
If anyone can afford to repay student loans, it's doctors. There's no reason to forgive any of their loans.
If anyone can afford to repay student loans, it's doctors. There's no reason to forgive any of their loans.
21
You ok?
If you want to earn a larger salary you have that option.
If you want to earn a larger salary you have that option.
2
I second your opinion.
Yes and lawyers too. Good grief.
4
I am a physician, who made it through med school entirely on student loans. I paid every dime of those loans off, over the required ten years. Although I spent a good part of those years working at public hospitals, as an emergency physician, I was certainly not expecting anyone to pay my loans for me. News Flash folks---- most MDs in this country can pay their own loans off! Likewise, nursing, teaching, firefighting, and many government jobs actually pay very well these days.
Perhaps some of the emphasis of this forgiveness program is misplaced. Perhaps it is way too generous. Maybe, instead of misleading and confusing people, the Dept of Education should simply tighten up its criteria for eligible occupations.
Perhaps some of the emphasis of this forgiveness program is misplaced. Perhaps it is way too generous. Maybe, instead of misleading and confusing people, the Dept of Education should simply tighten up its criteria for eligible occupations.
26
I'm sorry to be blunt but this is the worst kind of incompetence. It's abundantly obvious that a program such as this should spell out its requirements in a clear and accessible manner (NOT in small print!) at the outset. In addition, from the outset as well, the program should obviously have been designed to be as straightforward as the law could possibly allow. And, if we actually wish to advance to a more mature and rational state, the department should, if necessary, have asked Congress for modifications if the program could not be administered in a clear and straightforward manner based on the text of the law. And if this request had been made, Congress should have complied. Promptly.
And finally, perhaps the worst incompetence of all will be if after all of this current attention, the department simply continues administering this program in the same manner. Or nearly so.
We obviously need a more effective means of ensuring accountability. If I were affected by this I would at least take some initial steps in the direction of accountability by calling the department and asking for an explanation of how the current procedures for forgiveness were derived from the text of the law. I've done something similar with the federal government which, although requiring some patience, was successful.
And finally, perhaps the worst incompetence of all will be if after all of this current attention, the department simply continues administering this program in the same manner. Or nearly so.
We obviously need a more effective means of ensuring accountability. If I were affected by this I would at least take some initial steps in the direction of accountability by calling the department and asking for an explanation of how the current procedures for forgiveness were derived from the text of the law. I've done something similar with the federal government which, although requiring some patience, was successful.
6
I'm all for loan forgiveness in certain fields, but the overall problem is the ever increasing cost of attending post secondary colleges and universities. And the problem the way I see it is the easy access to both private and subsidized student loans. The federal government is essentially footing the bill to allow untold numbers of students to attend college, while the colleges have virtually no skin in the game and can forever increase tuition and fees on the taxpayers dime. Cut off this easy source of funding and whatch how quick college tuition comes back down to earth. If colleges and universities want the students, let them start paying their fair share for the privilege, not the taxpayer.
10
This is ridiculous. It shouldn't even take 10 years to pay off college and grad school loans. When I was in school the program was work for ONE year, teaching, for example.
How are grads supposed to buy houses or have children while making huge payments?
The voters in this country do not believe in college education. It should be free. Tuition is absurdly high.
Forgive all the loans now.
How are grads supposed to buy houses or have children while making huge payments?
The voters in this country do not believe in college education. It should be free. Tuition is absurdly high.
Forgive all the loans now.
36
Simple. We aren't. Houses are for rich people
6
When I was in college, a teacher could pay off the loans by teaching for 5 years. I
2
Those were the days - and you could actually understand the loan rules.
There's money to be made in the student loan scam, both for the banks and the government. Obviously, profit is preferable to a better future for our children and the health of the nation - this is the dogma and soul of our capitalist religion. Things will only get worse for our children, not better.
15
I think the ABA will prevail in its lawsuit against the Department of Education (DOE) because DOE's servicer, FedLoan Servicing, communicated to ABA employees that their payments qualified for forgiveness after the employees submitted annual employer certification forms. ABA employees reasonable relied on FedLoan Servicing's approval of their certifications and likely maintained their employment for lower salaries as a result. However, this affects a small number of people in the program. Most people in the program work for government organizations or 501(c)(3) not for profit organizations, both of which clearly qualify based on criteria provided.
The ABA is a 501(c)(6) not for profit, which is a trade/industry organization, rather than a 501(c)(3), which is a charitable organization. The employer certification forms that borrowers submit to FedLoan Servicing clearly outline the criteria for qualifying organizations and most 501(c)(6) organizations would not qualify. I worked briefly for a 501(c)(6) organization before returning to the federal government. However, that organization's HR department is providing employer certification forms to employees to submit, asserting that it is a qualifying organization, when it is clear that the organization does not meet the criteria. While FedLoan Servicing has accepted the organization's assertion that it qualifies, I wonder if this will be the case when employees actually submit applications for forgiveness years later.
The ABA is a 501(c)(6) not for profit, which is a trade/industry organization, rather than a 501(c)(3), which is a charitable organization. The employer certification forms that borrowers submit to FedLoan Servicing clearly outline the criteria for qualifying organizations and most 501(c)(6) organizations would not qualify. I worked briefly for a 501(c)(6) organization before returning to the federal government. However, that organization's HR department is providing employer certification forms to employees to submit, asserting that it is a qualifying organization, when it is clear that the organization does not meet the criteria. While FedLoan Servicing has accepted the organization's assertion that it qualifies, I wonder if this will be the case when employees actually submit applications for forgiveness years later.
5
Life decisions to stay in a career/agency and to even get married or not (or be married and file jointly or separately) were based on this loan term and its verification by an agent of the Dept. of Ed. It would be criminal to shaft borrowers who planned accordingly.
3
Please. Teaching jobs and many others are hard to get. We are paying top dollar, benefits, AND people should get debt forgiven? This programs needs to go.
6
You are paying top dollar for teachers, really? As compared to what? To the salaries that graduates with equivalent-level degrees who go into other fields such as Business, Engineering, etc.? No, not really.
Take a look at the cost of post-high-school education in other first-world countries. Nobody should have to pay what students in this country pay for their education. Why is it so hard for so many Americans to accept that well-educated citizens who work full time, are capable of more demanding work because of their education, and pay taxes are an advantage to the WHOLE society, not just to themselves?
Take a look at the cost of post-high-school education in other first-world countries. Nobody should have to pay what students in this country pay for their education. Why is it so hard for so many Americans to accept that well-educated citizens who work full time, are capable of more demanding work because of their education, and pay taxes are an advantage to the WHOLE society, not just to themselves?
18
Teacher here, YOU are not paying top dollar. If you live in the DC metro area, districts do not pay enough for you to live where you work. If there are pay cuts and budget shortfalls, it's teachers,police and firefighters who do not get raises.
9
Just reading this article made my head ache and my heart race even though I don't have student loan debt.
47
Yes, it makes my stomach churn.
A niece - who ought to be saving for retirement - explained to me her loan situation, which was still confusing - to her as well. She did consolidate her loans, and she must verify income - which means that her payments are income based, but whether or not the meets the employer condition I don't know. And who knows if the consolidation was done accoring to Hoyle, since it looks as if the Education Department doesn't have a copy of the rules handy, either. Basically she is paying interest - no principal payments. I don' think she understood when she took on these loans that this is the way they would play out - a steady and interesting job, but without enough income to live modestly and get out of debt.
A niece - who ought to be saving for retirement - explained to me her loan situation, which was still confusing - to her as well. She did consolidate her loans, and she must verify income - which means that her payments are income based, but whether or not the meets the employer condition I don't know. And who knows if the consolidation was done accoring to Hoyle, since it looks as if the Education Department doesn't have a copy of the rules handy, either. Basically she is paying interest - no principal payments. I don' think she understood when she took on these loans that this is the way they would play out - a steady and interesting job, but without enough income to live modestly and get out of debt.
2
Her consolidation needs to be a federal Direct consolidation (with the Dept of Education - - she should make sure it was not done with a private lender/consolidator).
Income-sensitive plans may be required for Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF), however, to be eligible for PSLF (forgiveness after 10 years), one must work for an approved not-for-profit agency for at a least a set number of hours per week.
She can view her federal aid history via www.nslds.ed.gov.
www.ibrinfo.org is a good website
TICAS is a good org with good info also:
http://ticas.org/content/posd/top-10-student-loan-tips-recent-graduates
Income-sensitive plans may be required for Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF), however, to be eligible for PSLF (forgiveness after 10 years), one must work for an approved not-for-profit agency for at a least a set number of hours per week.
She can view her federal aid history via www.nslds.ed.gov.
www.ibrinfo.org is a good website
TICAS is a good org with good info also:
http://ticas.org/content/posd/top-10-student-loan-tips-recent-graduates
1
Here and there there! In other words me too! I didn't even finish reading this article, I want to go out and be sick
I run a group of outpatient medical clinics in the mid-Atlantic, and I had been blissfully unaware of the overall awful turn student loans have taken until I hired on a young doctor for part time work. She has about $500k in loans, with about $200k being deferred interest. When I had student loans, the interest for the loans was paid by the government while I was in medical school, active duty in the military and during my civilian residency. I was able to easily pay off my loans in full while working as an attending physician for a 501(c)3 organization (e.g., not a high salary), and now I've gone on to other useful projects, such as opening an outpatient psychiatric (medication prescribing) clinics that actually accept commercial insurance as in network. If I had the same loan burden as the doctor I hired, there's no way I could have started this important clinical enterprise. This convoluted set of rules about loan forgiveness is one thing. The larger issue is the interest forgiveness while in training programs when there's zero chance people can repay the loans.
20
Baloney.
The doctors who work for your clinic knew the deal when they signed up for the money. And $500,000 isn't a huge debt load, considering what a doctor makes. It's excruciatingly unfair to suggest that doctors, who are engaged in one of the highest-paying occupations in this country, should be forgiven student loan debt when others who make a fraction of a doctor's pay are struggling much worse.
The doctors who work for your clinic knew the deal when they signed up for the money. And $500,000 isn't a huge debt load, considering what a doctor makes. It's excruciatingly unfair to suggest that doctors, who are engaged in one of the highest-paying occupations in this country, should be forgiven student loan debt when others who make a fraction of a doctor's pay are struggling much worse.
10
Lets complain about doctors. That will solve things.
1
A West: one problem is that Doctors with a lot of debt debt are not inclined to pursue less remunerative areas, such as geriatrics, or primary care, and actively avoid underserved areas which do not support profitable practices. Loan forgiveness -in exchange for work in thes areas -can add to the public good.
6
Lets assume someone has $60,000 of student loan debt. That $60,000 is considered by the IRS to be earned income. That person would have to pay taxes on the $60,000 when loan forgiveness is granted. Let’s assume they are earning enough to be in the 35% federal tax bracket, and that they live in a state with a 5% income tax rate. Given these figures (there is no knowing what tax rates will be in the future), that person will be hit with a combined tax bill of $24,000. Unlike student loans, the $24,000 is not paid over a number of years. It is a bill that is due right then and there. Not too many people outside the 1% of top wage earners have the means to write out checks to the IRS and state totaling $24,000.
7
Michael - Two issues here. First, there is a section in the Internal Revenue Code that states that a person who is granted forgiveness on his/her student loans due to public service does not have to pay income taxes on the balance forgiven. It's only amounts forgiven while working in the private sector. Second, regarding your statement that "It is a bill that is due right then and there," no, that is not the case. The IRS's collection office will allow taxpayers, who cannot afford to pay a lump sum due, to pay the amount over 5 years. The taxpayer will pay a small amount of interest, 3-4%, during that period.
10
Thanks for the clarification, BK.
2
This is an important point to share for those who would have balances forgiven after paying in an income-based plan for 25 years (i.e. not in a Public Service Loan Forgiveness).
1
These are the consequences when people vote in monsters into government whose only priority is to service the wealthy, corporations and their own pockets. The student loan program is a disgrace. It has been set up so wealthy executives make a ton of dough (see how much executives at Navient and the other loan servicers make) (see how much the CEO of Sallie Mae made back a few years ago) (see how much the government makes off of distressed students). The system has been set up to gouge, and destroy students, especially the middle and working class. It's corrupt and immoral.
27
It sounds like a good program. Just need its rules confirmed. I don't think 100% of the loan forgiven is a good idea. Some kind of sliding scale depending on income or future potential income.
2
The changing roles of inflation and stagnating wages tends to be overlooked in discussions of student loan burden. When I took out student loans in the 90's, the advice from folks who took them out in the 70's and 80's was, "Don't worry. It seems like a lot now, but with inflation and your increasing income in your career, the payments won't seem like a big deal in a few years." But inflation dropped off sharply in the 90's and continues to decline. Meanwhile, wages have been largely stagnant since 1980. So student loan dollars of borrowers over the past twenty years don't "shrink" the way they did for previous generations. I suspect many students take out loans with the encouragement of parents who didn't find repayment a big deal, only to find out the economics don't work as they did then.
13
The problem isn't what you describe. The problem is that in the 1970s through 1990s, student loans were mostly direct, and mostly capped at relatively low levels. This meant manageable debt for the student, guaranteed below prime loan rates, and a control on how much administrators could raise tuition. My loan debt was about 40% of my entry level post-college salary. Then came the era of multiple types of loans and no caps on them, and THAT is when college costs escalated exponentially and loans amounts exploded. Not only that, but my loans were 8% or so below prime - now those loans are 3% ABOVE prime and start accruing interest unless they are direct loans. The choice isn't between "take loans or not" anymore. Not even close. The choice is between "take loans or don't get a college education" for most people, even when it comes to state schools.
11
My 90's loans were partly direct (then called NDSL or Perkins), and the rest in loans called Stafford and SLS, which were around 8-11% (private banks, but the govt. set the interest rates, which were at the time the same for everyone.) The worst ones were the SLS, which charged interest even while you were still in school. The amount of interest I was to end up owing was definitely part of my miscalculation -- but so was interest. Even then, it was take student loans or don't go to school. (And yes, I worked during school too.) I would have attended state school for both undergrad and grad had I realized it. Instead I went to state undergrad but a private grad school. I paid them off and went on to become a professor (at a state university. :-) ) But I have always been playing catchup financially, never able to save enough for a home downpayment, e.g, (since home prices keep increasing faster than my savings). It's even worse for our students now, since tuition prices have skyrocketed. But I think we still can't overlook the impact of inflation compared to 30-40 years ago when loans got effectively "smaller" over the course of repayment.
2
We so badly need Bernie and Liz warren to help us. Our students beg you.
This is crazy. My kids chose public service, yet it will take them years before they qualify for forgiveness. Anybody know anything about public school teacher at the Dept of Education, NYC eligibility?
This is crazy. My kids chose public service, yet it will take them years before they qualify for forgiveness. Anybody know anything about public school teacher at the Dept of Education, NYC eligibility?
5
Seems that a better way to approach loan forgiveness is to deal with the cost of going to college. I believe some states do variations of this now, or have in the past, but essentially, agree to "waive" the tuition (or part thereof) for a student's agreement to stay in that state and work X number of years per successful earning of a degree. This may not work well for undergraduate degrees, which are now more like really expensive HS diplomas, but that's a different topic and discussion.
Putting a power like that into the hands of all state institutions might do a world of good in many ways.
Putting a power like that into the hands of all state institutions might do a world of good in many ways.
3
For those commenters who focus only on the potential taxpayer cost of student loans, I would respond that this is not an appropriate mode of analysis. Rather, the appropriate analysis is long-term, rate of return analysis. Success of the loan program is measured in decades, not a single year. The original purpose of the federal student loan program was to enable students who otherwise could not afford post-secondary education to do so. The returns on the loan program, which are substantial, are individual and societal over the lifetime of the individual. However, given today's high interest rates on federal student loans, the program serves more as a profit center for the federal government.
9
If we valued return on investment that way, we would also need to subtract the cost of the amount forgiven, which offsets the intangible and difficult to measure "societal benefit".
What is not addressed here is that the forgiven loan amount is then considered as taxable income.....
i was the financial aid director of a small college and i hated to process loans. i urged student to take less credits.. go at night while working and take longer to obtain their degrees.... After they graduated.. students came back to me to thank me for prudent advice as compared to their colleagues.... The student loan program when expanded just caused colleges to raise tuition as they knew the money was not the object any longer. The for profit colleges based their tuition on the sum of maximum loan. maximum pell grant and maximum state grant....
i was the financial aid director of a small college and i hated to process loans. i urged student to take less credits.. go at night while working and take longer to obtain their degrees.... After they graduated.. students came back to me to thank me for prudent advice as compared to their colleagues.... The student loan program when expanded just caused colleges to raise tuition as they knew the money was not the object any longer. The for profit colleges based their tuition on the sum of maximum loan. maximum pell grant and maximum state grant....
31
No, it isn't taxable. Forgiven debt in the public service loan forgiveness program is not taxable, though it is going to be table (at least so far, vis a vis efforts to get this changed) in other income-driven payments plans that involve forgiveness at the end of their terms. And when a former financial aid director can't keep the rules straight, well, good luck to the teenagers interested in teaching or nursing who are trying to sort this all out ahead of time.
9
I'm a college prof and I see plenty of students wasting their tuition dollars by working themselves to exhaustion at full-time jobs, so they have no energy or time left for their coursework. "More work and less school" is terrible advice if they actually are going to succeed in the classroom.
1
1. When did Congress pass laws restricting the discharge of student loans in bankruptcy or in any way other than paying it off?
2. What is the relationship between those rules and the increases in tuition and prices of required materiel?
3. What is the relationship of these student loan rules to the numbers and actual accreditation standards of "for profit" schools?
There is a dishonest broker in the education loan field and it is not the students. It is Congress people and the people in private capital who came up with and passed the legislation that turned a path out of poverty into a permanent place in it.
Trump is one who capitalized after the fact, who set it up to begin with?
There is the real student loan issue.
2. What is the relationship between those rules and the increases in tuition and prices of required materiel?
3. What is the relationship of these student loan rules to the numbers and actual accreditation standards of "for profit" schools?
There is a dishonest broker in the education loan field and it is not the students. It is Congress people and the people in private capital who came up with and passed the legislation that turned a path out of poverty into a permanent place in it.
Trump is one who capitalized after the fact, who set it up to begin with?
There is the real student loan issue.
26
In all of this, nobody seems to recognize that learning is work. Any kind of financial aid to college students is not a "hand-out." It should be viewed instead as wages for brain work. Yes, the student benefits financially from the degree they earn for their years of "college work," just as any worker benefits from their years on the job, learning to do everything their employer requires and often getting free outside training. But employees are paid to learn on the job while we expect college students to not only work for free but also to pay for the opportunity! Looking at the current cost of higher education and the cost of borrowing money, I hope more of our bright young people decide that going straight to work out of high school makes more sense. Then, when employers start complaining that there are not enough "qualified" applicants to meet their needs and that they have to spend too much training their hires we as a country will feel begin to see higher education as an investment that benefits all of us.
7
I chose to go to law school because this loan forgiveness program existed. I would not have applied to law school school if this program did not exist. I am the first person in my family to go to professional school. I now work for the federal government. I am making loan payments consistent with the terms of the law. I am thankful that a #bi-partisan Congress created this bill, and that president George W. Bush signed this bill into law. I look forward to the day that I will be able to have my loans forgiven, and so I can one day afford to have a family.
45
The our current system of education finance (i.e. student loans) is bad for the economics of our country. Ignore for a moment any questions of ethics and morality and just examine the economics.
Consider these facts:
1) Student loan debt represents > $1 trillion debt carried by Americans.
2) The service economy represents ~ 80% of US economy.
3) The government has the power to tax.
Charging students up front, and burying them in debt, is inefficient and impractical when the government has the power to recoup costs after graduation by collecting taxes. Enforcing the current system depresses spending by forcing loan borrowers to pay back the government with solely their own after-tax income. This has the real effect of delaying home & car purchases as well as the childbirth and general spending.
Considering that education is a public good it is reasonable to spread the cost of education across the population through taxation. This would reduce the burden on borrowers and free up their income to buy the things that drive our economy.
Finally, if loan borrowers are going to be in repayment for 30 years, is there a reasonable expectation for them to save money for future education of their children? Even if possible, that's additional capital pulled out of circulation.
The only groups our current system truly benefits are schools, loan originators/servicers, and the sufficiently wealthy. It does not efficiently service students, the American public, our economy.
Consider these facts:
1) Student loan debt represents > $1 trillion debt carried by Americans.
2) The service economy represents ~ 80% of US economy.
3) The government has the power to tax.
Charging students up front, and burying them in debt, is inefficient and impractical when the government has the power to recoup costs after graduation by collecting taxes. Enforcing the current system depresses spending by forcing loan borrowers to pay back the government with solely their own after-tax income. This has the real effect of delaying home & car purchases as well as the childbirth and general spending.
Considering that education is a public good it is reasonable to spread the cost of education across the population through taxation. This would reduce the burden on borrowers and free up their income to buy the things that drive our economy.
Finally, if loan borrowers are going to be in repayment for 30 years, is there a reasonable expectation for them to save money for future education of their children? Even if possible, that's additional capital pulled out of circulation.
The only groups our current system truly benefits are schools, loan originators/servicers, and the sufficiently wealthy. It does not efficiently service students, the American public, our economy.
7
Wrong. College education is not a "public good," especially when students earn useless degrees in nonsense. Taxpayers are not responsible for your bills to study basket weaving.
Further, we have reached college degree over-saturation. Tons of people with college degrees performing jobs that do not require four years of college. The more expensive degrees we hand out, the more worthless that college degree becomes.
You want an education? Go to your local community college, where it's cheap. Undertake an online study course, where there are great programs and it's even cheaper. Stop trying to bankrupt this country with disgustingly overpriced traditional colleges vomiting millions upon millions of worthless degrees, man of which aren't worth the paper they are printed on.
Further, we have reached college degree over-saturation. Tons of people with college degrees performing jobs that do not require four years of college. The more expensive degrees we hand out, the more worthless that college degree becomes.
You want an education? Go to your local community college, where it's cheap. Undertake an online study course, where there are great programs and it's even cheaper. Stop trying to bankrupt this country with disgustingly overpriced traditional colleges vomiting millions upon millions of worthless degrees, man of which aren't worth the paper they are printed on.
11
Wrong. Your disrespectful response says more about you than your "argument" says about my comment. If you can't comment without insulting others, you are part of the problem.
And did I advocate expensive schools? Why do you think I went to one? The state school I went to has quadrupled in price in the last 20 years. It would be WONDERFUL to have an adult conversation about the cost and quality of education. Unfortunately, my comment was about the effect of our education finance system on our economy and not about cost/quality so you're not even responding to what I wrote.
By lobbing insults you prevent any chance we may find common ground or that your points will be considered. You did, so I won't. Opinion denied. But thanks for writing!
And did I advocate expensive schools? Why do you think I went to one? The state school I went to has quadrupled in price in the last 20 years. It would be WONDERFUL to have an adult conversation about the cost and quality of education. Unfortunately, my comment was about the effect of our education finance system on our economy and not about cost/quality so you're not even responding to what I wrote.
By lobbing insults you prevent any chance we may find common ground or that your points will be considered. You did, so I won't. Opinion denied. But thanks for writing!
1) I have worked in non-profits since 1990 and I was never notified in 2007 about this program.
2) My employment/employer does qualify I found out last year.
3) Back payments do not count. I have made regular payments for over 25 years.
4) I was not and still am not in the right payment program and no one at FedLoans seemed to be able to help me.
5) I still cannot afford the payments for the 10 year payment plan. This payment plan confuses me because why would I need Student Loan forgiveness if I can afford to pay off my loans in 10 years?!
My conclusion is that Congress wanted to sound like they were helping individuals in public service but that they created so many ridiculous requirements that make it almost impossible for anyone to qualify.
GOP "fake" policy.
2) My employment/employer does qualify I found out last year.
3) Back payments do not count. I have made regular payments for over 25 years.
4) I was not and still am not in the right payment program and no one at FedLoans seemed to be able to help me.
5) I still cannot afford the payments for the 10 year payment plan. This payment plan confuses me because why would I need Student Loan forgiveness if I can afford to pay off my loans in 10 years?!
My conclusion is that Congress wanted to sound like they were helping individuals in public service but that they created so many ridiculous requirements that make it almost impossible for anyone to qualify.
GOP "fake" policy.
4
If you attended a university that many years ago, then you paid very low tuition compared to what people pay today. In addition, if you've been making payments for that many years, then your balance cannot be that high in comparison to your income. What are you asking the Department of Ed to do? Reimburse you for the small amounts you paid years ago? That wasn't the purpose of the program. It was created for people who incurred significantly higher debt in recent years as a result of very large annual tuition increases.
3
My understanding of a loan is that it is a way of borrowing money to meet short term needs with the intent to pay it off over a longer period of time
So why should these loans be forgiven? Were they made with an understanding that they would have to be repaid? How about a little bit of personal responsibility?
So why should these loans be forgiven? Were they made with an understanding that they would have to be repaid? How about a little bit of personal responsibility?
15
Because these people relyied on a governmental law that promised forgiveness if they met certain requirements. And they did so.
7
I worked three jobs to pay for my children's education. Parents are abdicating their responsibilities in allowing their children to acquire student loan debts they have little chance in paying back the principal let alone interest and late charges. This idea of loan forgiveness is yet another example of society punishing people who are killing themselves providing for themselves and their families while rewarding the slackers.
27
working in public service or for non-profits does not seem to be slacking
9
1) Western world colleges became (for some 30 - 40 yrs now) a production line for "progressives", inoculated with totalitarian utopia how the life and the world ought to look.
2) Even this article suggests that it is somehow OK and "sensitive" that taxpayers (or bank customers) feed the huge billions of student default loans and that students (and their parents) who piled up those loans ought to be somehow shielded from reality check by having fellow citizens - who for decades now suffer from globalization that only selected elites profit from - pay those debts for them.
3) Educational-industrial complex along with ever-present agenda of political correctness further expand college tuition inflation not only with all those Gender Studies, AA Studies but with armies of highly (obscenely?) paid university officials and people like Chief Diversity Officer at one university in Michigan who not only collect $380.000 in salary plus may tens of thousands in benefits but also gets in total 6 million dollars from National Science Foundation (i.e. taxpayers) to study completely esoteric agenda.
2) Even this article suggests that it is somehow OK and "sensitive" that taxpayers (or bank customers) feed the huge billions of student default loans and that students (and their parents) who piled up those loans ought to be somehow shielded from reality check by having fellow citizens - who for decades now suffer from globalization that only selected elites profit from - pay those debts for them.
3) Educational-industrial complex along with ever-present agenda of political correctness further expand college tuition inflation not only with all those Gender Studies, AA Studies but with armies of highly (obscenely?) paid university officials and people like Chief Diversity Officer at one university in Michigan who not only collect $380.000 in salary plus may tens of thousands in benefits but also gets in total 6 million dollars from National Science Foundation (i.e. taxpayers) to study completely esoteric agenda.
9
They are not slackers; they have been overcharged for what should be tax-paid education and they have chosen difficult careers in exchange for debt forgiveness.
While your working three jobs to pay for your children's higher education is commendable, both methods of loan payment and forgiveness are lose-lose.
The U.S.A. CAN afford to educate its future generations with redistribution of wealth. The current system is unsustainable and will halt the future, as educated adults will not be able to afford families.
While your working three jobs to pay for your children's higher education is commendable, both methods of loan payment and forgiveness are lose-lose.
The U.S.A. CAN afford to educate its future generations with redistribution of wealth. The current system is unsustainable and will halt the future, as educated adults will not be able to afford families.
1
Somebody has got to pay for all those coach's salaries and huge athletic complexes/stadiums.
25
College athletics & stadiums not only pay for themselves, but actually subsidize the rest of the educational system. If you really want each part of a college or university to pay for itself, then you can say goodbye to all those gender studies, medieval economics and sociology programs.
2
If that's true (which it isn't by the way) universities wouldn't tack on an "activity fee" each semester that is usually $500 or more.
2
It is true. And the activity fee has nothing to do with sports teams.
Student loans are a scam - a way to quickly transfer money from the poorer young workers to banks, and at the same time to have students subsidize spending by schools at a time of public spending cuts to education. At the same time, student loans are a significant drag on the nation's economy -> inefficiently channeling money to banks that could instead be used for other spending that would benefit the entire economy.
18
So, if you're GM or Wells Fargo or CitiBank, you're entitled to a bailout (for the good of the economy) but it you're some student, not only are you not supposed to get one, but people will castigate you as some sort of "moral desperado" for even asking?
Leaving aside the history that the Republicans have gutted affordable student loans, replaced by usurious loans by for-profit banksters!
And note: "Education Department" -- aka Betsy DeVos...
Leaving aside the history that the Republicans have gutted affordable student loans, replaced by usurious loans by for-profit banksters!
And note: "Education Department" -- aka Betsy DeVos...
63
But for the bulk of the loans...federal direct loans to students and parents, it's the government via the Department of Education that gets the money...including the usurious interest rates of between 6-8% depending on the loan. The banks just get a relatively small fee to administer/process payments to the government. It's simply an extra 6-8% tax on the middle and working classes. No other civilized country tolerates this kind of theft from their citizens.
10
Many other civilized countries provide free or subsidized college and post graduate degrees for their citizens so that they don't spend the rest of their lives paying off debts.
5
While you are obviously unable to miss a chance to make a swipe at Republicans, many states (like CT) have been dramatically cutting funding to their public colleges and reducing or eliminating public scholarships .... because Democrats created huge and unsustainable burden of states obligations toward retired state employees pensions and teacher pensions represent.
Thus retired have their even six digit, inflation-adjusted pensions while high school graduates can't afford to attend their public university or are crushed by student loan debt, even when studying STEM (which is no guaraty for employment and ability to pay off loans, start family, as say IT jobs are going to India etc.)
Thus retired have their even six digit, inflation-adjusted pensions while high school graduates can't afford to attend their public university or are crushed by student loan debt, even when studying STEM (which is no guaraty for employment and ability to pay off loans, start family, as say IT jobs are going to India etc.)
4
"Why should taxpayers be asked to subsidize students living in luxury condo style dorms with sushi bars and state of the art gyms?"
I think a better question is why you're applying such a ludicrous stereotype to those of us who have explicitly planned for a career of comparatively low-paying public service. (Pro tip: the number of us living in "luxury condo style dorms with sushi bars" is likely close to zero.)
"If higher ed wants more money from the government, higher ed should be working harder to provide more affordable degrees."
...the problem here being that the whole reason tuition has become so astronomically high -- at least among public universities -- is because state legislatures, under constant pressure to keep their larger budgets in check, have slashed higher educational funding to the bone. My undergraduate alma mater has experienced a 95 percent cut in state funding over the past 25 years, and as a direct result, tuition has increased over 500 percent for in-state students. Other factors have certainly played a role as well -- the competition between private and public universities for bringing on top-notch professors has never been higher -- but you're effectively blaming the victim here.
So: in sum, we Americans between 18 and 40 -- barring the unlikeliness of full student loan forgiveness -- will probably be racked with student debt into old age, and then further get the shaft thanks to Baby Boomers bleeding Social Security funds dry. Thanks, guys!
I think a better question is why you're applying such a ludicrous stereotype to those of us who have explicitly planned for a career of comparatively low-paying public service. (Pro tip: the number of us living in "luxury condo style dorms with sushi bars" is likely close to zero.)
"If higher ed wants more money from the government, higher ed should be working harder to provide more affordable degrees."
...the problem here being that the whole reason tuition has become so astronomically high -- at least among public universities -- is because state legislatures, under constant pressure to keep their larger budgets in check, have slashed higher educational funding to the bone. My undergraduate alma mater has experienced a 95 percent cut in state funding over the past 25 years, and as a direct result, tuition has increased over 500 percent for in-state students. Other factors have certainly played a role as well -- the competition between private and public universities for bringing on top-notch professors has never been higher -- but you're effectively blaming the victim here.
So: in sum, we Americans between 18 and 40 -- barring the unlikeliness of full student loan forgiveness -- will probably be racked with student debt into old age, and then further get the shaft thanks to Baby Boomers bleeding Social Security funds dry. Thanks, guys!
94
I was with you, Jeff, until you ended by saying that you "Americans between 18 and 40 will probably be racked with student debt into old age, and then further get the shaft thanks to Baby Boomers bleeding Social Security funds dry." Do you know how many years we older people have worked and paid into Social Security, while making sure the generation before us received their benefits? And how little Social Security payments are compared to the actual cost of living? If you want to look at who is bleeding this country dry, how about the ultra-rich gobbling up all the wealth, all the increase in productivity in the last few decades, while wages stagnate? How about the cap on Social Security contributions that protects the wealthy? If that were lifted, the Social Security trust fund would be protected ad infinitum. Do a little research before parroting right-wing talk points.
2
Baby Boomers Bleeding SS dry? You mean after financing the system for all who came before them and now supporting their children who can't find work partly because Baby Boomers can't afford to retire thanks to the Republican Recession of 2008?
And now Trump and his Republican Congress drooling at the thought of gettting their nasty little hands on what's left of SS and Medicare so they can hand it over to their Wall Street buddies.
Start educating yourselves about who your real enemies are.
This baby boomer did not vote for the Republicans who want to dismantle the social safety network and drove the debt sky high -- not for Reagan, not for Bush I, not for Bush II, and not for Trump and not for any of the vile Republicans now inhabiting Congress.
This baby boomer voted for the two candidates -- first Bernie and then Hillary -- who wanted to do something about student indebtedness, even though this baby boomer paid for their own child's higher education in full and so would not benefit nor would their child benefit in the least.
And now Trump and his Republican Congress drooling at the thought of gettting their nasty little hands on what's left of SS and Medicare so they can hand it over to their Wall Street buddies.
Start educating yourselves about who your real enemies are.
This baby boomer did not vote for the Republicans who want to dismantle the social safety network and drove the debt sky high -- not for Reagan, not for Bush I, not for Bush II, and not for Trump and not for any of the vile Republicans now inhabiting Congress.
This baby boomer voted for the two candidates -- first Bernie and then Hillary -- who wanted to do something about student indebtedness, even though this baby boomer paid for their own child's higher education in full and so would not benefit nor would their child benefit in the least.
There are two relationships the state should never have with the citizen: executioner and creditor.
Chaining young people to debt at a time in their lives when they are at their most risk-tolerant is stifling for economic innovation. All outstanding student loans should be forgiven for anyone who wants them. Anyone who has paid them off or would like to, can deduct the amount on their tax returns, proportional to how much time has passed since the debt was settled.
In exchange, the federal loan program should be eliminated, and replaced by free tuition to any public university a student has the GPA and test scores to get into. Private colleges and trade schools can incentivize their own enrollments with private money.
Chaining young people to debt at a time in their lives when they are at their most risk-tolerant is stifling for economic innovation. All outstanding student loans should be forgiven for anyone who wants them. Anyone who has paid them off or would like to, can deduct the amount on their tax returns, proportional to how much time has passed since the debt was settled.
In exchange, the federal loan program should be eliminated, and replaced by free tuition to any public university a student has the GPA and test scores to get into. Private colleges and trade schools can incentivize their own enrollments with private money.
11
This program should be cancelled. It provides huge subsidies for some, like graduates of hyper-expensive third-tier law-school diploma mills, and little or none for others, which cannot be an efficient way to subsidize wages. Instead, let the government directly pay a wage subsidy where it really thinks a particular job is truly vital.
26
I'm not sure you have all of the information necessary to make this conclusion, based on what you wrote. You mentioned people who attend lower tier law schools. How many of those people do you think get jobs with employers that qualify? It's not like every person who wants a government job can get one, simply because he or she has a law degree.
In addition, one of the reasons that this program was created was due to the low wages and large student loans of local prosecutors. Do you want to decrease the incentives for people to become prosecutors? They start at extremely low salaries after incurring large loan amounts, due to the extremely high cost of law school. Very few people will want to work in these positions if they can't afford it. Have you ever been a crime victim? If not, then you're fortunate. For those who are, I don't think they want to rely on a criminal justice system with inexperienced prosecutors who don't intend to stay in those positions due to financial reasons.
In addition, one of the reasons that this program was created was due to the low wages and large student loans of local prosecutors. Do you want to decrease the incentives for people to become prosecutors? They start at extremely low salaries after incurring large loan amounts, due to the extremely high cost of law school. Very few people will want to work in these positions if they can't afford it. Have you ever been a crime victim? If not, then you're fortunate. For those who are, I don't think they want to rely on a criminal justice system with inexperienced prosecutors who don't intend to stay in those positions due to financial reasons.
7
Even better: The government, via rich tax payers and fair corporate taxation, pays 95% of higher ed (and healthcare).
This is doable, is current policy in other first-world countries.
Continuing with the current destructive capitalist U.S. "each person for themself" social and economic policies, the U.S. will sink into second-world and then third-world global status within a couple of generations.
This is doable, is current policy in other first-world countries.
Continuing with the current destructive capitalist U.S. "each person for themself" social and economic policies, the U.S. will sink into second-world and then third-world global status within a couple of generations.
1
Yes, agreed with your suggestion here. Plus, 10 years is too long to keep someone in service with the promise forgiveness. Too much "life" happens in that time.
As every academic hospital in NYC it is a non-profit and pay their physicians market rate salaries, I don't see Dr. Chanler-Berat is making a sacrifice to work as an ER physician in the city nor how working as in VA hospital in Portland which similarly pays market rates as Dr. Amjadi is doing is any type of sacrifice either.
If either was working for the Indian Health Service or in physician deprived areas, I could perhaps understand their being some loan forgiveness but their situations would appear to make a mockery of the purpose of the program.
If either was working for the Indian Health Service or in physician deprived areas, I could perhaps understand their being some loan forgiveness but their situations would appear to make a mockery of the purpose of the program.
17
With $300,000 in loans, he is paying approx. $19,000-$21,000 per year in interest alone for the typical Department of Education government loan. Unlike with a mortgage or business expense, the maximum of that interest he can deduct is $2,500. As we have learned about Trump's tax returns, he can deduct $900,000,000. And he can and has declared bankruptcies. Student loans are not dischargeable via bankruptcy.
5
You are, of course, making excellent and to-the-point comments.
NYC or Portland, Oregon, are certainly not "undeserved" areas, on a contrary, they are among top "lifestyle" choices even for (generally, compared to the rest of the world, including Western world) highly paid American physicians.
Running up $300,000 in educational debt (while the average medical school and resident student loan debt is $150.000) indicated that this doctor doesn't have at least an average abilities to manage money.
All other most developed (OECD) countries pay their physicians 3-4 times the average wages in a country. Why we continue to overpay our physicians with, on average 5 to 7 times the average wage?
Physicians are (along with hospital managers, vendors, pharma, private insurance middlemen) the cause for US spending twice as much,in dollar terms and in % of GDP and OECD countries (like Canada etc.)
So, irresponsibly, twice as much the average loan debt accumulating Drs. Berat and Amjadi cry well, but on a wrong grave.
NYC or Portland, Oregon, are certainly not "undeserved" areas, on a contrary, they are among top "lifestyle" choices even for (generally, compared to the rest of the world, including Western world) highly paid American physicians.
Running up $300,000 in educational debt (while the average medical school and resident student loan debt is $150.000) indicated that this doctor doesn't have at least an average abilities to manage money.
All other most developed (OECD) countries pay their physicians 3-4 times the average wages in a country. Why we continue to overpay our physicians with, on average 5 to 7 times the average wage?
Physicians are (along with hospital managers, vendors, pharma, private insurance middlemen) the cause for US spending twice as much,in dollar terms and in % of GDP and OECD countries (like Canada etc.)
So, irresponsibly, twice as much the average loan debt accumulating Drs. Berat and Amjadi cry well, but on a wrong grave.
Not a Trump fan, but you are comparing apples and oranges. Non-mortgage interest is not deductible for anybody (Trump or the Dr.). Long-term capital losses, on the other hand, are deductible by everyone.
2
Regime change creates so much drama and with the draconian budget cuts this president has requested you can see the fall out in programs like this loan forgiveness one. No one knows what to do so they are erring on the side of denial
We have hobbled our young wth debt and we will all pay that price as too few of them can work with contribute to the institutions we all rely upon.
Time to up my savings rate...
We have hobbled our young wth debt and we will all pay that price as too few of them can work with contribute to the institutions we all rely upon.
Time to up my savings rate...
1
HIGH COSTS OF EDUCATION subsidized by govt throwing billions into loans and SURPRISE! College raise their tuition accordingly. IF you're a college who teaches a degree likely to qualify do you think there's any interest to 1) CONTROL your costs or 2) RAISE your costs.
Bush law to make student loan debt basically unforgivable in bankruptcy ensured banks loaned money to everyone and anyone without any thought of wether they were qualified to pay it back...
Bush law to make student loan debt basically unforgivable in bankruptcy ensured banks loaned money to everyone and anyone without any thought of wether they were qualified to pay it back...
2
Without subsidizing or heavily supporting higher education for all, we can't compete with the rest of the world who does.
Our greatest natural resource, (human minds), gets commodified and falsely regulated by greedy bankers. Education is an industry in our highly capitalistic nation. Just like medicine and the hospital/pharma industries.
The wealth of a nation depends upon the education and health of its citizenry. We are dying a slow, painful death.
Our greatest natural resource, (human minds), gets commodified and falsely regulated by greedy bankers. Education is an industry in our highly capitalistic nation. Just like medicine and the hospital/pharma industries.
The wealth of a nation depends upon the education and health of its citizenry. We are dying a slow, painful death.
87
Yes! Just replied similarly to another comment. Have heard so many tragic healthcare and higher ed stories in the last 20 years that are heartbreaking and unnecessary. Like the commenter above, these stories make my heart race, my head ache and my blood boil.
I think that most of these people should not get loan forgiveness, if not all.
Doctor's make significant income and should not have much trouble making those payments. I'm not concerned with their need for a fancy apartment or luxury car.
And the woman with the fabric recycling non-profit (business). Shame on you. She's still able to make what ever salary she deems fit as the organization's sole member and director. Way to game the system!
Doctor's make significant income and should not have much trouble making those payments. I'm not concerned with their need for a fancy apartment or luxury car.
And the woman with the fabric recycling non-profit (business). Shame on you. She's still able to make what ever salary she deems fit as the organization's sole member and director. Way to game the system!
14
Doctors who choose to work at nonprofit hospitals and clinics earn much less than their counterparts in for-profit institutions. Partial student loan forgiveness provides an incentive for them to consider working in the nonprofit sector. It also benefits nonprofit hospitals/clinics that often find it difficult to recruit physicians.
7
Some doctors make significant income but not all. The difference in salaries for a primary care doctor and a specialist like an orthopedist is wide. There is s shortage of PCPs in many areas because of salary.
The woman running the fabric recycling service is not going to get rich. She is at the very least providing a service. This woman isn't going to get Goldman Sachs richbfrom this business.
The woman running the fabric recycling service is not going to get rich. She is at the very least providing a service. This woman isn't going to get Goldman Sachs richbfrom this business.
7
Being self-employed, Ms. Schreiber has endless ways to demonstrate that her non-profit is making no money while she is payig herself poverty salary as well.
To start: Her non-profit, where she is a founder, president and the only (paid) employee looks like a scam and while it might have been certified by IRS as tax-exempt 501-c-3 it should never qualify for her federal student loan break or forgiveness, because she is - in so many ways in conflict of interests - as she decides on fundamental business decision of her non-profit, has so many ways to declare that she pays herself poverty wage. etc.
To start: Her non-profit, where she is a founder, president and the only (paid) employee looks like a scam and while it might have been certified by IRS as tax-exempt 501-c-3 it should never qualify for her federal student loan break or forgiveness, because she is - in so many ways in conflict of interests - as she decides on fundamental business decision of her non-profit, has so many ways to declare that she pays herself poverty wage. etc.
8
Why should taxpayers be asked to subsidize students living in luxury condo style dorms with sushi bars and state of the art gyms? If higher ed wants more money from the government, higher ed should be working harder to provide more affordable degrees.
19
It's not like the students have many choices in this situation.
2
Colleges, competing among themselves, especially in era of online degree programs, an mass compete among themselves on "lifestyle" issues, also in reflection of the fact that women now represent 62% of all undergraduate students.
Thus fancy dining halls and "boutique" eating places, fancy fitness facilities, all that to demonstrate "exciting college experience".
Thus deciding on college it is like shopping on steroids, where credit cards are replaced by array of student loans.
And while the progressives cry that "only 6.7% of STEM grads are women", pretending that being STEM grad still somehow guarantees a well paying and outsourcing-resistant job and career, who or what really prevent women to sign up and graduate from those majors?
BTW: I never heard any cries or saw any marches protesting that only 1% of stable, well paying nursing jobs are men or that 0% of under-the-table paid babysitting and nanny jobs are giver to man ... or that no 18 yr old female is - like all males, for decades now - required to sign up with Selective Service ad risk their lives and limbs ... while, despite being underrepresented on college campuses, facing (besides $200K penalty, up to 5 years in prison) denial of federal student loans, Pell Grant, Work Study dollars and federal employment.
Young men face these risks even when they fail to report change of address w/in 2 weeks, yet our equality warriors don't demand such "male privileges" like Selective Service for our daughters.
Thus fancy dining halls and "boutique" eating places, fancy fitness facilities, all that to demonstrate "exciting college experience".
Thus deciding on college it is like shopping on steroids, where credit cards are replaced by array of student loans.
And while the progressives cry that "only 6.7% of STEM grads are women", pretending that being STEM grad still somehow guarantees a well paying and outsourcing-resistant job and career, who or what really prevent women to sign up and graduate from those majors?
BTW: I never heard any cries or saw any marches protesting that only 1% of stable, well paying nursing jobs are men or that 0% of under-the-table paid babysitting and nanny jobs are giver to man ... or that no 18 yr old female is - like all males, for decades now - required to sign up with Selective Service ad risk their lives and limbs ... while, despite being underrepresented on college campuses, facing (besides $200K penalty, up to 5 years in prison) denial of federal student loans, Pell Grant, Work Study dollars and federal employment.
Young men face these risks even when they fail to report change of address w/in 2 weeks, yet our equality warriors don't demand such "male privileges" like Selective Service for our daughters.
2
I see choices available choices all the time. We have teachers at my school who went to modest state schools and begin their careers with modest amounts of debt $15,000 - $ 25,000, and we have other who went to country club schools and owe over 6 figures. I worked two jobs to get through school, and now I am a teacher and doing fine. I see younger people following in those foot steps, and others who do not.
1
Some commenters have bemoaned the fact that taxpayers pick-up the tab when students default on loans. I've got an idea...instead of the government using student and parent federal education loan interest as an extra major tax on the middle and working classes by charging the usurious interest rates of 6-8% on money the government is getting for 1%, why not just charge the 1%? It's the absurdly high interest rates that kill students and parents and cause many borrowers to get further behind in payments and finally throw in the towel. And then their credit rating is so terrible that they're lucky to find a good place to live or a good job. Defaulting is like getting a Dishonorable Discharge from the military...people never recover.
5
People have experienced this type of run-around, bait & switch foolishness for years from capitalists once our "neo-liberal" government abandoned consumer protection as a core purpose of governance.
Now things have gone so far that government itself adopts these tactics as increasingly we really do "run government more like a business."
As Sen. Elizabeth Warren has been noting for some time, educational loans already make a profit(!) off student borrowers by charging them higher interest than the government itself pays to borrow. (This despite the fact that market interest on market debts don't carry one key power that student loans do - that the debt is all but undischargeable in bankruptcy.)
Now things have gone so far that government itself adopts these tactics as increasingly we really do "run government more like a business."
As Sen. Elizabeth Warren has been noting for some time, educational loans already make a profit(!) off student borrowers by charging them higher interest than the government itself pays to borrow. (This despite the fact that market interest on market debts don't carry one key power that student loans do - that the debt is all but undischargeable in bankruptcy.)
12
A loan is a loan. You should never go in planning that a loan be forgiven, the world doesn't work that way.
Average college debt in the US is $35,000 and estimated additional lifetime earnings for a college grad are $500,000. Its a very good but not risk free investment. And a lot of that 35K relates to the American affectation toward out of state private universities- you can get a 4 year degree for $20,000 all in using of in-state public universities when factoring in all available subsidies.
Most American household debt is in mortgages- an amazing amount is in car loans- but we're not seeing a lot of forgiveness for those loans. Why college loans?
Average college debt in the US is $35,000 and estimated additional lifetime earnings for a college grad are $500,000. Its a very good but not risk free investment. And a lot of that 35K relates to the American affectation toward out of state private universities- you can get a 4 year degree for $20,000 all in using of in-state public universities when factoring in all available subsidies.
Most American household debt is in mortgages- an amazing amount is in car loans- but we're not seeing a lot of forgiveness for those loans. Why college loans?
13
Because this program was enacted to incentivize people to go into low-paying, public sector, community service-type jobs. That's pretty tough to do when you have huge student loan debt to service. There's really no comparison to mortgages or car loans. And I don't think it's as simple as "a loan is a loan." When there's a government program called "Public Service Loan FORGIVENESS," it's not that unreasonable to assume that your debt will be, uh, forgiven.
13
Right. Said the banks during the financial crisis.
6
My state university costs $35,000 per year for state resident students...tuition/room&board/fees...more if you are in the Business or Engineering Schools. This ain't Canada. But you can save money by renting your textbooks for only $500/semester instead of buying them for $1,500 (I am not joking.)
8
It's a crime that young doctors, nurses, and even social workers have to borrow huge sums of money for their training in America...that does not happen anywhere else in the rest of the civilized world. Whatever is the greediest and ugliest bird in North America should replace the Bald Eagle on the U.S. national emblem.
15
No, I mean no young person tries to apply and goes into medicine (or nursing) from mainly altruistic motives, i.e. I will pile up student loan debts and have an unsteady, low-paying career. On a contrary: Healthcare is, in this global economy, rightly sought and one of very few options for well paid and STEADY professional career. So, no charity there ..., and both medical schools and nursing programs have thus many, many applicants to choose from, thank you.
Then, when some, like Dr. Berat here, live a life when they pileup debts more than twice the average ($330 K versus $140K) one should ask how rational thinking such professional employs and will be able to use when working with patients.
Especially when they planned to work in "undeserved" areas (and BTW NYC or Portland, OR are not "undeserved" areas, they are among top "lifestyle" choices for any professionals),one wold expect they live more frugally than the average.
Then, when some, like Dr. Berat here, live a life when they pileup debts more than twice the average ($330 K versus $140K) one should ask how rational thinking such professional employs and will be able to use when working with patients.
Especially when they planned to work in "undeserved" areas (and BTW NYC or Portland, OR are not "undeserved" areas, they are among top "lifestyle" choices for any professionals),one wold expect they live more frugally than the average.
3
You can complain and be bitter of those around you. Or you can do something about it. Looking forward to your reply.
Both our kids went to private colleges where they received significant scholarships. They each took on about $20K in additional loans and my husband and I borrowed the rest. Both kids also participated in AmeriCorps programs that offer loan forgiveness of around 5-6 thousand a year, so they've been cutting that indebtedness in half (while working for less than poverty wages). Aside from the craziness around loan forgiveness that's described here, there's also the issue of interest rates. All of our loan rates hovered initially between 7.5 and 8.25 percent, and still do. I don't think highway robbery should be amongst the government's goals, no matter who is running it.
44
It sounds to me like the woman who left the Dept. of Sanitation (a VERY good job with SUPERIOR benefits for life) to open a fabric scrap non-profit seems to be playing the system. That she "plotted her loans, payments and career choices according to the rules of the loan forgiveness program" doesn't sit well with me.
24
What if she PLANNED her loans, payments and career choices according to the rules of the loan forgiveness program? Seems reasonable to me.
7
Yeah, that's sort of how I read it too. Sort of like trying to call your business a "religion" so you can get tax exemptions.
4
The fact that she is a) the founder b) the president c) the only (paid) employee of this "501-c-3 non-profit" doesn't smell good.
When we set-up bona fide 501-c-3 IRS scrutiny was thorough and certification not simple even when we had no paid employee.
In her cumulative roles she has - like any self-employee - a myriad of options to "creatively yet still legally" arrange matters so that she can still officially paying self poverty-level salary while doing quite well indeed.
She should not qualify for loan forgiveness, not only because she quit steady government job and career.
When we set-up bona fide 501-c-3 IRS scrutiny was thorough and certification not simple even when we had no paid employee.
In her cumulative roles she has - like any self-employee - a myriad of options to "creatively yet still legally" arrange matters so that she can still officially paying self poverty-level salary while doing quite well indeed.
She should not qualify for loan forgiveness, not only because she quit steady government job and career.
4
How about keeping it simple.
How about educating people that they should pay their debts?
Any program that tells people if you do these things you can walk away from your debts is immoral and should be cancelled. There are enough deadbeats in our country already.
How about educating people that they should pay their debts?
Any program that tells people if you do these things you can walk away from your debts is immoral and should be cancelled. There are enough deadbeats in our country already.
15
Oh puh-leaze,
How about creating a society where education isn't debt financed in the first place? It may be one thing to have debts related to a home, a car, and other commodities, of which require when financially secure. But what is immoral in my opinion, that you thoroughly fail to address, is why such indebtedness must be incurred BEFORE this has even been achieved, nor, given our current middling economy, and from the stories we've been hearing over the decade or more of the difficulty gaining stable and good paying employment esp. among recent graduates, you may not even know if you can achieve this (as even sure things like law school and real estate are no longer). And, as unlike ordinary commodities, the price for higher ed. has been soaring over 3 decades? Why can't education be a social good that could actually promote social mobility--rather than what seems its current opposite: as this very newspaper reported just three months ago, student debt is snuffing out entrepreneurial start ups. But never mind, we are told, these are just immoral deadbeats. Take the blinders off, please.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/11/business/smallbusiness/for-young-entr...
How about creating a society where education isn't debt financed in the first place? It may be one thing to have debts related to a home, a car, and other commodities, of which require when financially secure. But what is immoral in my opinion, that you thoroughly fail to address, is why such indebtedness must be incurred BEFORE this has even been achieved, nor, given our current middling economy, and from the stories we've been hearing over the decade or more of the difficulty gaining stable and good paying employment esp. among recent graduates, you may not even know if you can achieve this (as even sure things like law school and real estate are no longer). And, as unlike ordinary commodities, the price for higher ed. has been soaring over 3 decades? Why can't education be a social good that could actually promote social mobility--rather than what seems its current opposite: as this very newspaper reported just three months ago, student debt is snuffing out entrepreneurial start ups. But never mind, we are told, these are just immoral deadbeats. Take the blinders off, please.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/11/business/smallbusiness/for-young-entr...
7
@Sail2DeepBlue
"How about creating a society where education isn't debt financed in the first place?"
That is totally fine and a valid discussion to be had.
It has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the Education Dept no less is training people on how to not pay their debts.
There are many avenues to higher education without debts. Serve your country in the military and get free college. Work after high school, save the money, then pay for college. Work during college to pay for it. Grants and scholarships abound for poorer students with good high school grades.
And more can be done.
But for a Doctor who hacks up 300,000 in debt to be whining that he may have to pay it back is ridiculous. Incur the debt, pay the debt. That is the education that people need.
"How about creating a society where education isn't debt financed in the first place?"
That is totally fine and a valid discussion to be had.
It has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the Education Dept no less is training people on how to not pay their debts.
There are many avenues to higher education without debts. Serve your country in the military and get free college. Work after high school, save the money, then pay for college. Work during college to pay for it. Grants and scholarships abound for poorer students with good high school grades.
And more can be done.
But for a Doctor who hacks up 300,000 in debt to be whining that he may have to pay it back is ridiculous. Incur the debt, pay the debt. That is the education that people need.
4
I work in a field where there are regular, but vague rumors about someone possibly getting their large loans repaid. Over time, I have come to regard these rumors as a type of urban legend, because the debtor in question is always the friend of a friend of a friend. The information can never be verified.
I was never led to believe that my loans would be forgiven, but a friend has been repeatedly disappointed over the years. Every job she starts, she is told the position might qualify, but then it doesn't.
My loans were not that large and I just took a second job and eventually paid them. But we are not talking 300k here, more like 30k.
I was never led to believe that my loans would be forgiven, but a friend has been repeatedly disappointed over the years. Every job she starts, she is told the position might qualify, but then it doesn't.
My loans were not that large and I just took a second job and eventually paid them. But we are not talking 300k here, more like 30k.
1
When is a loan not a loan? When it's a student loan, of course! What a great lesson to teach college students. Just stiff the lending or government agency that granted you a loan in full expectation of repayment. When the going gets tough, the students demand loan forgiveness. Our beneficent Governor Andrew Cuomo (a bleeding heart Democrat, with his eyes on the presidency in 2020), is going these deadbeats one better in the free stuff race. He is apprpriating taxpayer money to give away free college tuition to the children of any family making less than $125,000 a year. As usual, the taxpayers who are footing the bill have no say or vote in the matter. No wonder people are leaving New York in droves.
14
How is it "stiffing" anyone to enroll in a forgiveness program that the government itself created just 10 years ago?
52
There was a time, before the Reagan tax cuts, when student loan interest was tax deductible. If one of the goals of tax policy is to encourage the pursuit of worthy goals, such as home ownership, why not higher education? But indebted students and graduates are not a powerful special interest like the real estate and mortgage industry, and so this issue never seems to get raised in discussions of tax reform.
10
It still is tax deductible, but you lose the deduction after you hit a certain income level.
5
Thanks. Is this something new within the last 20 years or so?
It's changed a lot over the years. Here's a Forbes story on the history. (I realize that a lot of their Web stuff is unedited these days, but Kelly tends to know her tax stuff.)
1
College tuition as well as books and fees are ridiculous. It has been seven years since our youngest graduated and we as parents are still paying off college loans. Both our children went to public universities and my son had half his expenses paid by scholarships. Every year costs rise. As someone who went to school tuition free in NYC I just feel that kids and parents are getting scammed between costs and loans.
33
What a scam, are you kidding me? This is a joke, surely no one believes this is real. No subsidies of any kind at any time. Take away all the loans and see the tuition drop. We have allowed the colleges to raise the price because of all the loans. Elizabeth Warren taught one class a semester for 300k, there is your value proposition. Enough already, with the bleeding hearts, and endless sob stories.
32
Or we can be sane non-jerks instead, and do what developed countries do with drug prices. Have price controls and give the government negotiating power—because often the Invisible Hand needs a sharp slap with a ruler.
The for-profit colleges in particular don't even bother with a "what the market can bear" excuse anymore—they just raise prices at will, come or go what may. Taking away subsidies just gives students less options against that tide, while taking away the profiteers' pens when they get greedy gives the students a fighting chance.
And when that's not enough and they just hike anyway? Strong, compassionate eminent domain et voilà, affordable housing that ends that whole homelessness problem as a bonus.
The for-profit colleges in particular don't even bother with a "what the market can bear" excuse anymore—they just raise prices at will, come or go what may. Taking away subsidies just gives students less options against that tide, while taking away the profiteers' pens when they get greedy gives the students a fighting chance.
And when that's not enough and they just hike anyway? Strong, compassionate eminent domain et voilà, affordable housing that ends that whole homelessness problem as a bonus.
2
If you take away the loans, you will not see tuition drop. You will see most medical schools (and many colleges and universities) forced to close.
3
well said! If I may add, education and health care are connected??
I am a doctor with three daughters going to college within two years. I know you are crying for me for the daughter part i.e. education, wedding etc. and not for the Doctor part. But my point is that I understand college education and live health care.
The price of education in this country is the major problem which is directly connected to our health care problems. Health care and education are the two major expenses for people under 65 years of age. In Europe and Canada, both education and Health care are free. The two biggest stressors in life have been removed. That's why the cost of health care and longevity are superior than our country.
Don't worry be happy...........
We need to change our approach in this country.
Solution: government subsidized health care and education. Forget the student loans or at least the interest. Put a 100% tax on alcohol and junk food.
I am a doctor with three daughters going to college within two years. I know you are crying for me for the daughter part i.e. education, wedding etc. and not for the Doctor part. But my point is that I understand college education and live health care.
The price of education in this country is the major problem which is directly connected to our health care problems. Health care and education are the two major expenses for people under 65 years of age. In Europe and Canada, both education and Health care are free. The two biggest stressors in life have been removed. That's why the cost of health care and longevity are superior than our country.
Don't worry be happy...........
We need to change our approach in this country.
Solution: government subsidized health care and education. Forget the student loans or at least the interest. Put a 100% tax on alcohol and junk food.
3
I have worked for federal/local government agencies for 12 years. Unfortunately for 8 of those years, I was actually employed through a government contractor at a federal facility but was not a federal employee. None of that time can be counted towards this PSLF program.
5
It's not clear why they set up the rules this way, but isn't it often the case that contractors make more money than government employees doing the same work (or who would have done the same work if only the work had not been contracted)? Perhaps this was why this happened -- or there was concern that higher-paid "government" work would unfairly be discharged.
2
It can be, but not always. I left a contracting job because while the immediate pay was good, the benefits of PSLF were far better. I wasn't making much more than I make in my comparable government job, and the benefits in a contracting job are usually worse in terms of retirement, leave, or for me, anyway, quality of life. It's an odd situation, because I was doing exactly the same job for exactly the same government department, but one was a GS job, and the other was contracting.
I had a lot of loans from college and grad school. I paid them off.
12
How much? From when? In what field? Without this context, it's impossible to know what kind of point you're trying to make or if it's relevant. In general, I find most of the "I toughed it out and you should too" commentary to be irrelevant if it involves schooling that happened more than 15-20 year ago, given how much educational costs have grown beyond the rate of inflation and/or salary increases, though it's not always the case. But specificity helps when you're trying to make a point here -- please add some if you can.
45
It doesnt matter...you take em...pay em back! Sick of handouts, that are subsidized by me, who paid mine back in full. Did i enjoy it, no...but I did it because I Had obligation to do so.
5
That's not what some of this is about though -- the suits are over a program that did promise to repay them (whether we like the program or not) -- where the DOE told the litigants that their jobs were eligible (causing them to take/stay in those jobs) and then changed the ruling.
And again, if we move towards yanking the program altogether or capping it, there are real questions about whether we'll have enough public-interest lawyers and public-hospital doctors and teachers in a few years (given the high tuition prices for those graduate schools and the fact that we may well be headed towards a situation where we're going to block the hiring of some of the immigrant/guest worker doctors who take some jobs).
And again, if we move towards yanking the program altogether or capping it, there are real questions about whether we'll have enough public-interest lawyers and public-hospital doctors and teachers in a few years (given the high tuition prices for those graduate schools and the fact that we may well be headed towards a situation where we're going to block the hiring of some of the immigrant/guest worker doctors who take some jobs).
30
Why are Americans simply incapable by nature in running large scale programs anymore? Why does everything they do gave to be ridiculously and impenetrable complicated? I believe the U.S. is now so thoroughly disheveled that it can only reform itself by a full reboot.
20
It's not unlike the explanation for the complexity of the tax code -- many of the income-driven repayment programs, kinds of loan, and types of exceptions and exceptions to the exception exist because the first set of things in that category caused problems for someone. (And yeah, some are there because of lobbyists.) Same thing is true for so many deductions and credits. There were a fair number of good intentions here, but when you pile too many of them up, you get the system that we have now. And then you get an administration that seems committed to silence and...
10
If your plans for grad school rest upon the belief of "free" money then you might think about making alternative plans.
Conversely, if your grad school is willing to pay your tuition and give you a stipend to TA, then you probably belong in grad school.
Conversely, if your grad school is willing to pay your tuition and give you a stipend to TA, then you probably belong in grad school.
10
Asking again: How many public defenders would we have if this was how we operated? Would there be enough in 10 or 15 years? I don't think so, but if anyone has a data-based case to make that there are enough people with $200,000 in the bank for law school tuition or from family -- or who are willing to take on that much debt to make $60,000 per year for a while, I'd like to see it.
47
Ron - thanks for taking the time to read and reply.
I know many folks who are very smart and in law school and some of them have indicated they will choose the public service route - independent of tuition forgiveness. This has to be the best solution.
The secondary question is how many graduate degrees are non-value-added because folks simply don't have options after a bachelor degree and are seduced by the promise of another two or three "free" years of school for a MA or a MFA.
You may believe in government intervention - I may believe in letting the smart folks decide what they want independently of financial inducements that are as fleeting as a desert mirage.
I know many folks who are very smart and in law school and some of them have indicated they will choose the public service route - independent of tuition forgiveness. This has to be the best solution.
The secondary question is how many graduate degrees are non-value-added because folks simply don't have options after a bachelor degree and are seduced by the promise of another two or three "free" years of school for a MA or a MFA.
You may believe in government intervention - I may believe in letting the smart folks decide what they want independently of financial inducements that are as fleeting as a desert mirage.
2
Ron, you know that medical-doctor students take big debt-loads. Even with good salaries, it can be a scary thing. IMHO, most do it, because they really like making life better for people, or the science, or both. (And some do it for the money).
Don't like the sight of blood, and like to argue for "the little guy?" Law school might be a good fit. Just be careful with your finances. Military service is an option, as is Americorps.
Don't like the sight of blood, and like to argue for "the little guy?" Law school might be a good fit. Just be careful with your finances. Military service is an option, as is Americorps.
3
Yet Education Secretary Devos has an extra 1mm month security detail probably ultimately going to going to her brother for security. This is completely screwed up and we are turning into Russia, a bankrupt economy but money channeling to a select few.
Welcome to the new, horrible world of the GOP and Trump. We are doomed!
Welcome to the new, horrible world of the GOP and Trump. We are doomed!
42
I still think I should never have been offered these loans - I was 22, didn't own even a car and was paying 1/4 rent for an a aprtment - in what insane world was I eligible to sign up for over $60,000 worth of loans for a three years masters degree? then they disallowed declaring bankruptcy, guaranteeing I was screwed for life. I have NO other debts, at all, never have, but that single huge mistake was a doozy. Now I find the Forgiveness loan for public servants (which I am) program would acually require me to make almost twice as high payments as I am making, for the ten years, so I am only looking forward to income based reduction when I retire - I am almost 61. Stupid. Loans are for people who like to play with money - that is NOT me. A loan based culture is a sick culture.
11
The Public Service Loan Forgiveness program does not affect the payment amount at all - - the type of payment plan you are in does. You should complete and submit a PSLF form and check if enrolling in an IBR or REPAYE income-based repayment NOW is to your advantage. The following website spells things out more clearly than the Dept of Ed:
http://www.ibrinfo.org/what.vp.html#pslf
http://www.ibrinfo.org/what.vp.html#pslf
1
Pay for the education you can afford. Don't rely on government handouts. And then whine when they don't come through.
16
If this was how we ran things, I don't think we'd have enough doctors in public hospitals given how expensive medical school has gotten. (It can be well over $300,000 when you count living expenses.) Yes, public hospital docs can sometimes make those loan payments on their salaries. But they may not be able to afford to save up for a home or have children and pay for child care.
84
So only people with rich parents should be allowed to get an education? Most cannot afford to pay 350k in cash for medical school. The same people complaining about this policy would be the same people complaining when they can't get a doctors appointment...
98
That might have worked years ago when it cost $6000 a year to go to a 4 year university. Instead of loans, we should move to a means-tested free tuition program paid for through taxes for public colleges and universities. It would cost 1 or 2 percent and guarantee that anyone who wants to go to school, can go to school. Why should only those who are already well off have the resources to get the well paid jobs? People aren't poor because they are unintelligent. They are poor because poverty is a vicious cycle that afflicts generations.
15
4 years ago, while working as the Chief Information Officer at a state university in Illinois, I came to understand first hand of student loan debt. Helping a few, and that turned into a flood.
Borrowers are told to trust their servicers, without also being told about conflicts of servicer's interest, pending or settled litigation based upon servicer's behavior or how to validate the information given to them by a servicer is true. The program rules are complicated - but the easy mnemonic is 3Q's - qualified: plan, payments, employer.
1. All qualified plans require annual re-certification. If your loan payments don't require annual recertification, you aren't in the kind of plan for forgiveness.
2. All qualified loans must have "Direct" in the name of the loan. If the loan doesn't say Direct, you can't be in a qualified plan though you are making payments. At the beginning of the forgiveness plan some servicers urged borrowers to consolidate FFEL loans because they were programmatically ineligible. That was later fixed, but no one told those borrowers that they had a new way to become eligible for loan forgiveness.
3. Qualified payments means paying the qualified plan amount on-time every month. Late payments don't count.
4. Qualified employers. Only 501(c)(3) firms qualify, however there are many categories of 501(c) - make sure your employer is a (3).
Research. There are a lot of blogs about the programs and the rules. CFPB has very clear information.
Borrowers are told to trust their servicers, without also being told about conflicts of servicer's interest, pending or settled litigation based upon servicer's behavior or how to validate the information given to them by a servicer is true. The program rules are complicated - but the easy mnemonic is 3Q's - qualified: plan, payments, employer.
1. All qualified plans require annual re-certification. If your loan payments don't require annual recertification, you aren't in the kind of plan for forgiveness.
2. All qualified loans must have "Direct" in the name of the loan. If the loan doesn't say Direct, you can't be in a qualified plan though you are making payments. At the beginning of the forgiveness plan some servicers urged borrowers to consolidate FFEL loans because they were programmatically ineligible. That was later fixed, but no one told those borrowers that they had a new way to become eligible for loan forgiveness.
3. Qualified payments means paying the qualified plan amount on-time every month. Late payments don't count.
4. Qualified employers. Only 501(c)(3) firms qualify, however there are many categories of 501(c) - make sure your employer is a (3).
Research. There are a lot of blogs about the programs and the rules. CFPB has very clear information.
3
See, this gets to the complexity here. Even extremely well-meaning people don't always have the right answers and may spend years inadvertently giving the wrong ones to people they are trying to help.
4) here is not true. It is not just 501c3s that qualify. See this FAQ, question 28, for more on qualifying nonprofit employers.
4) here is not true. It is not just 501c3s that qualify. See this FAQ, question 28, for more on qualifying nonprofit employers.
11
I am trying to navigate this right now. I work at a public university and have been there 8 years. But I can't find any info that lets me know whether the on-time payments I've been making all these years will count toward the 10 years you need for forgiveness. How to go about this?
1
Denise, follow the links in the piece to the mandatory reading and it will help you sort it out. The first call will likely have to be to your current servicer -- I'd be wary of trusting the first answer you get, given the history of bad information coming out of those shops. Ask 2-3 times before you make any moves, and see the earlier comment from the teacher and the written confirmation she fought to get -- I'd want that too.
6
I agree this is all confusing, but the only area I know about, in health-care, most (over 80%) are non-profit or government. I don't believe there's a huge salary differential in working for one vs one of the for-profit hospitals, so why should those get loan forgiveness? ER docs make 250-300K/year, regardless of the type of hospital. I could understand those that work in underserved areas, etc., but to distinguish based on the tax nature of the owner of the hospital doesn't make sense. In fact in the example in the article on New York, I think all hospitals are non-profit, so everyone working for a NY hospital qualifies for loan forgiveness?
11
There is a substantial difference between private practice and academic/public service job salaries. Not all jobs in these hospitals you are talking about are actually employed by the hospital. Some are subcontracted out to private groups... but it all depends on the specialty. Regardless, this program was already put into place by the Obama administration. We can't argue about the program now. It's the governments responsibility to honor it and not say "hey we didn't realize this was a bad deal, deals off"... that's the major problem here
4
HF, I'm not sure where you're getting your information and numbers, but you are mistaken. I am in my final year of medical training (4 years of medical school, 5 years of residency, and 2 years of fellowship) and have accepted a position at a non-profit, county hospital beginning in July. My best friend graduated from training one year ahead of me and accepted a job in the same field, but in private practice. Our salary difference? $260k/year. I would call that huge.
5
This article hit the nail on the head: "Let’s call the Education Department’s refusal to clarify the matter exactly what it is: meanness."
13
I don't think it's "meanness" at all and I am surprised that this silly language made it into the article. Even Scholastic News wouldn't provide this level of reporting. Government agencies are huge bureaucratic entities where the left hand often doesn't know what the right hand is doing. All of these agencies could stand an overhaul of their operations to eliminate redundancies, provide transparency and provide user-friendly interfaces to the public. I wish Kushner well with his Office of American innovation but he has no clue what awaits him.
3
And what you won't get with Kusner is transparency. Remember that he's the one who refers to voters as "customers." Because customers provide profits....................
3
I note when I was a student, the primary originator of the majority of student debt in this country, Sallie Mae, was a government entity, operating under strict student loan management guidelines and that my interest rate on my loans was 2-3% and I came out of school with a student loan debt of no more than $12,000. I also note that in 2004 during the Administration of George W. Bush Congress, under pressure from the powerful private financial institutions of this country, terminated Sallie Mae's federal charter and it became a private institution where most of its loans were provide by private banks and financial management corporations, and that the current average interest rate is now 6.8%. I also note that the management of the individual student loan may not in fact be held by the originator of the loan, but subcontracted out to a private company that may in fact be off shored.
-So, my feeling is that if the US would like truly like to do something to help the average person afford college in this country, that our leadership needs to closely examine whether it is in the best interests of the country to continue to let the private banking and financial institutions treat public education as if it is their own personal cash cow, rather then treat education as if it is a valuable utility which helps guarantee the future of our nation.
-So, my feeling is that if the US would like truly like to do something to help the average person afford college in this country, that our leadership needs to closely examine whether it is in the best interests of the country to continue to let the private banking and financial institutions treat public education as if it is their own personal cash cow, rather then treat education as if it is a valuable utility which helps guarantee the future of our nation.
72
This whole situation is very disturbing. I am a resident physician who is almost 2 years into qualifying payments, meeting all 4 of the above criteria, that have been confirmed by my employment certification form. I have 450k in debt. While I understand Ben's viewpoint on the subject, the price of medical school has continued to rise and physician salary has gone down significantly. The entire system is flawed. This program made it feasible for me to pursue my dream as a doctor. I am now in a horrible dilemma. Do I stay in an academic setting after residency making less money to teach other future doctors of America and take a huge risk that my loans may or may not be forgiven in 8 years or do I take a private practice job and try and pay off my debt as fast as possible? At this point we are all scared to trust this program and rightfully so. Even if we meet those four criteria, can we trust it? Will they put a cap on the amount forgiven? Will they get rid of the program without grandfathering in those of us who are already in? Will there be a salary cap? I would ask people like Ben, who thinks we are defrauding the government, if docs are making less and less and med schools are charging more and more who is really at fault? Maybe the real problem is the tuition rates in our country. And if you were to say, "if you don't like it then don't be a doctor", I would say the doctor shortage we currently have in primary care would be a lot larger without this program.
46
Sir, this is becoming a big paperwork and financial nightmare for everyone. Kind of like "you can keep your doctor."
When someone tells you something is "free" -- as Harry Truman said, "go home, and put an extra lock on the meat freezer." A big snafu is in the works.
When someone tells you something is "free" -- as Harry Truman said, "go home, and put an extra lock on the meat freezer." A big snafu is in the works.
4
Our entire higher education system is obscene - and not least of all the governments role in it - making a profit off borrowers. Over a trillion dollars and climbing with no end in sight. It wasn't always like this - but our parasitic, capitalist system of all-"free" market, all the time, has left us with almost no sense, let alone duty, of common good, public responsibility or even morality. So we have turned young people (and their parents etc.) into indentured servants. We don't value our teachers, doctors, nurses, etc. Because in this exceptional America it's all about profit - which is why profit comes before education, healthcare, the environment and on and on.
I'm hoping that one day, millions of these people will come to the realization that their debts are illegitimate and stop paying them, en masse. In any civilized, morally decent country, the taxes and monies paid into the system actually has a return in services and in making life better for its people.
But in these glorious United States - the gov't soaks you for taxes, fees etc. - and then drives you into debt for education, healthcare etc. I mean, it's really kind of insane when you think about it.
I'm hoping that one day, millions of these people will come to the realization that their debts are illegitimate and stop paying them, en masse. In any civilized, morally decent country, the taxes and monies paid into the system actually has a return in services and in making life better for its people.
But in these glorious United States - the gov't soaks you for taxes, fees etc. - and then drives you into debt for education, healthcare etc. I mean, it's really kind of insane when you think about it.
111
I agree that we lend excessively. We allow people with little means even after graduation to borrow too much for too many degrees for too long. There's no limit on plus loans or to how many chances you get. Fail at 5 or 6 prior colleges and never pay a dime of it, no problem, we give you another chance. There needs to be more rational limits. However, if you check the CBOs own assessment and the portfolio of loans on the department of education's data center, you will see that loans are far from profitable once you take into account all the high debt loans either not being repaid or only partially repaid. There is a growing portion of negatively amortizing loans that is not being repaid that must be accounted for.
1
Wow. This is what's wrong with our country. The thought that you can "borrow" money to attend a pricey private university and then have that debt forgiven. Other people must pay for your choice? Shame.
6
Higher education, which is 70% government-run, is "profiting?"
Yup. That's what "Not Hillary" has been saying. Wish him and Mrs. DeVos, in their battle with the Public Education Industrial Complex.
Yup. That's what "Not Hillary" has been saying. Wish him and Mrs. DeVos, in their battle with the Public Education Industrial Complex.
It is not a shameful message when lawyers working for the ABA find out they are not eligible. It is a non-profit, but not a charity.
13
Nor is it shameful that someone starts a business, calls it a non-profit (which is easy to do), and then demands forgiveness. The regulation clearly was not intended to protect this type of "employment."
8
Herein lies the crux of the problem. How do you encourage respsonsible borrowing as a financial aid advisor or make rational decisions as a student when there's a payment plan with loan forgiveness at the end of it? Let's be clear, students are never forced to borrow more than they can afford, but we act as though they had no choice and are now feeling bad that the $300,000 they borrowed from our fellow taxpayers isn't going to just vanish? This program with all it's good intentions unfortunately encourages abuse and downright fraud. There has to be a limit to how much can be included in this, such as undergraduate loans only, and no Plus loans, which have no lifetime cap.
11
Really? Do you know what an ER doc in a non-profit hospital actually does? If they put in 10 years at that job the tax payers should be HAPPY to forgive their student debt, plus loans and all. We're not talking about a ferrari-driving plastic surgeon getting their loans forgiven here.
71
This is the sort of comment that makes me want to tear my hair out.
There was a time when college - public or private - liberal arts or medicine or law - did not require a lifetime to repay. People actually could work their way through school as well - try doing that today, I dare you. There are few colleges that have affordable costs - even state schools. If you want to become a teacher, in most parts of the country a four year degree isn't even good enough. You need graduate school. Doctors didn't used to have to take out $300,000 or more to practice medicine. Colleges - whether public or private have been starved for state funds and/or been following the corporate business model - and government has allowed this - and now here we are. No longer in this country do we take any responsibility for each other - for the common good, for the next generation. It is absolutely indefensible that millions of people have to take on this kind of debt in order to get an education. Furthermore, elites in both education, government and media have been beating the drum for years about going to college and filling out FAFSA's, all the while making it impossible for anyone in trouble to discharge their debt in bankruptcy (unlike gambling debt which is fine).
The whole thing is rigged, unjust and not befitting decent people.
And what are taxes for, anyway? To pay for our military industrial complex and subsidies for big oil and big AG? I'd rather it go to people.
There was a time when college - public or private - liberal arts or medicine or law - did not require a lifetime to repay. People actually could work their way through school as well - try doing that today, I dare you. There are few colleges that have affordable costs - even state schools. If you want to become a teacher, in most parts of the country a four year degree isn't even good enough. You need graduate school. Doctors didn't used to have to take out $300,000 or more to practice medicine. Colleges - whether public or private have been starved for state funds and/or been following the corporate business model - and government has allowed this - and now here we are. No longer in this country do we take any responsibility for each other - for the common good, for the next generation. It is absolutely indefensible that millions of people have to take on this kind of debt in order to get an education. Furthermore, elites in both education, government and media have been beating the drum for years about going to college and filling out FAFSA's, all the while making it impossible for anyone in trouble to discharge their debt in bankruptcy (unlike gambling debt which is fine).
The whole thing is rigged, unjust and not befitting decent people.
And what are taxes for, anyway? To pay for our military industrial complex and subsidies for big oil and big AG? I'd rather it go to people.
126
I agree about the importance and service of doctors, which raises the question of how we award doctors in particular. Unfortunately the majority of borrowers taking advantage of this program are not doctors or ever intended to be. They use this program as an afterthought once they realize they cannot really afford their loans. Many include students that borrowed at multiple schools while using loans as an income source. We cannot have an open checkbook for any and all degrees at any school whatsoever.
4
Thank you, NYT, for getting the word out. Sounds like a simple statute that was undermined & obfuscuscated by exec-agency "implementing" regs-- so often a cover-up for undermining the letter of the law.
Consumers have long learned to expect a bait-&-switch run-around from phone, utilities & insurance co's - we've been caught for decades (since deregulation of monopolies) waiting for the invisible hand of marketplace competition to compensate. We'll be waiting for Godot to recoup from privatization of ed loans.
Consumers have long learned to expect a bait-&-switch run-around from phone, utilities & insurance co's - we've been caught for decades (since deregulation of monopolies) waiting for the invisible hand of marketplace competition to compensate. We'll be waiting for Godot to recoup from privatization of ed loans.
17
This was bipartisan legislation signed into law by George W Bush.
That has been executed by the Obama administration for eight of the ten years it has been in existence, an administration not noted for its excellence in execution.
5
Actually very well noted as such!
3
This is correct. The initial legislation capped borrower's payments at 15% of their adjusted gross income, minus 150% of the poverty rate (about $17,600). Obama, via executive order, enhanced the program to cap payments at 10%. However, it was the Obama administration three years ago that was floating the idea of capping the total amount forgiven.
3
The statute is not complicated, actually. Government, 501c3, and other people who perform specific service jobs, fulltime, at other nonprofits. That is not complicated at all. The complication comes from the Department refusing to have a formal application like every other program, changing eligibility from the statute to ignore jobs and look only at employer, and then 7 years later, secretly introduce a new layer of employment eligibility that exists nowhere in the statute or regs. Oh, that's right, and the Department approved specific requests for certification for several years but is now rescinding them, retroactively. But it's the statute -- those 20 words -- that's complicated?
5
My son is a second year medical resident at a non profit hospital associated with an Ivy League medical school. His gross income for 2016 was only $5,000 more than than the amount of interest added to his student loans. According to an article in NYT by the year 2020 we will be 20,000 doctors short in the US. He is caught up in this mess. Working shifts that are frequently 20 plus hours makes it virtually impossible to make calls and be on terminal hold while being sent in circles.
At this rate, without a program of some form of debt forgiveness for public service who will teach medicine in teaching hospitals? How would a young doctor actually have a family, home and life with a debt load of what may be half a million dollars by the time they finish a fellowship?
Will we really be able to attract our best and brightest to be teachers, nurses, social workers, MDs, researchers etc. when we leave them with crushing lifelong debt?
Streamline the rules and regulations, it is only fair to clearly know if you qualify or not!
At this rate, without a program of some form of debt forgiveness for public service who will teach medicine in teaching hospitals? How would a young doctor actually have a family, home and life with a debt load of what may be half a million dollars by the time they finish a fellowship?
Will we really be able to attract our best and brightest to be teachers, nurses, social workers, MDs, researchers etc. when we leave them with crushing lifelong debt?
Streamline the rules and regulations, it is only fair to clearly know if you qualify or not!
9
Best thing I did (as a teacher) was request from FedLoan Servicing, a Qualifying Repayment History, and I'm going to ask for this documentation yearly. It lists all qualifying payments made, and the reason WHY any payments did not qualify. It also lists the Employment Certifications Forms/dates that were submitted and if those qualified or not.
I had been working on getting this document since December 2016. I made a phone log of who I spoke with, their employee ID number and asked for specific dates as to when I should receive the document. I made regular phone calls when I did not get the document. Finally, April 5th I refused to get off the phone with the escalation specialist until it was in my Gmail Inbox. Although I was told repeatedly that SHE did not have the authorization to do this- she got sick of speaking to me and found someone who could send the document that moment. She was not happy but I got my paperwork!
Now I just need to get a correct copy because on the front page it states I made 40 qualifying payments and in the next paragraph it lists 22 qualifying payments. Hopefully by Christmas I will have a corrected version in hand.
Stay diligent. Follow up. Don't give up. Documentation is going to be our best friend.
I had been working on getting this document since December 2016. I made a phone log of who I spoke with, their employee ID number and asked for specific dates as to when I should receive the document. I made regular phone calls when I did not get the document. Finally, April 5th I refused to get off the phone with the escalation specialist until it was in my Gmail Inbox. Although I was told repeatedly that SHE did not have the authorization to do this- she got sick of speaking to me and found someone who could send the document that moment. She was not happy but I got my paperwork!
Now I just need to get a correct copy because on the front page it states I made 40 qualifying payments and in the next paragraph it lists 22 qualifying payments. Hopefully by Christmas I will have a corrected version in hand.
Stay diligent. Follow up. Don't give up. Documentation is going to be our best friend.
154
It is astounding that it takes this much effort. But maybe we shouldn't be surprised.
7
Now just imagine being on the other side of that phone and having your hands tied by red tape and being told you don't have the authority to give it out and that if you are allowed to send the letter, it has to go through 2 other departments first before it can even get out the door. There is a reason why the escalations department is not a desired job unless you're on your way out the door of the company.
2
No document you receive from the government is binding.
4
any rational person would have little faith in this program. Best strategy, just go to highest paying job and ignore any desires to "serve" social cause (i.e., new teachers need look for jobs in good suburban schools instead of working in urban areas with expectations of debt reduction).
11
America is more than suburbs. Advising teachers to avoid vast segments of the population does not fit with good education policy for a nation that seeks to compete successfully with other nations .
1
Kickham, what you say is true but in many of the areas you mention pay is pretty bad. It makes paying student loans difficult, if not paying rent. It guarantees poverty.
3
Maybe this will bring about the death knell for this program!
6