The can-do party of the republic (republican) that was born out of a desire to eliminate slavery (Abraham Lincoln) has now become the republifraud (the party that defrauds) party.
19
Blue Cross Blue Shield, my insurer under the ACA, made political contributions to Devin Nunes of $13,500 for the 2016 election CYCLE and $11,500 for the 2014 election cycle. BCBS were in his top five contributors both times.
https://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/summary.php?cycle=2014&type=...
I can't find a statement by BCS anywhere as to what they were paying Congressman Nunes to do or not do. Nunes has other big donors from the health care sector as well, as you can see at the link to OpenSecrets.org.
If a new bill is released (as seems likely) without the protections now in place for pre-existing condition and essential health benefits, Nunes will oblige BCBS by voting for it. It's just business for this "non-profit," right?
Congress has indeed regulated health insurers by the ACA. It has affected their bottom lines. In response, a huge regulated health insurer makes payment to a campaign committee for a Congressman who opposes regulation of health insurers.
How many OTHER Senators and Members of Congress have had cash from health insurers in their pockets as they have supported the deconstruction of the ACA? How much, in total, has the health insurance industry paid in order to tilt the playing field in their direction?
https://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/summary.php?cycle=2014&type=...
I can't find a statement by BCS anywhere as to what they were paying Congressman Nunes to do or not do. Nunes has other big donors from the health care sector as well, as you can see at the link to OpenSecrets.org.
If a new bill is released (as seems likely) without the protections now in place for pre-existing condition and essential health benefits, Nunes will oblige BCBS by voting for it. It's just business for this "non-profit," right?
Congress has indeed regulated health insurers by the ACA. It has affected their bottom lines. In response, a huge regulated health insurer makes payment to a campaign committee for a Congressman who opposes regulation of health insurers.
How many OTHER Senators and Members of Congress have had cash from health insurers in their pockets as they have supported the deconstruction of the ACA? How much, in total, has the health insurance industry paid in order to tilt the playing field in their direction?
31
We are one of the only (if not the only) westernized country that does not have health care as a right. We are Americans and we are suppose to look out for each other. Especially with health care. Leveling health care costs so young healthy folks help subsidize older less healthy folks is part of being American. Just because you are young and healthy now does not mean you will be in the future. If you get cancer I bet you will want leveled health care that covers pre-existing conditions. Illnesses can hit anyone at anytime at any age.
As Americans we have got to stop this thought process that we are only in this for ourselves. What if the military said they would only protect folks that are in the military. What if you called 911 and the police said..."Oh sorry, you're on your own". I haven't called the police ever but I still pay taxes to cover everyone. Should I stop paying for the police or military, I didn't start any of the wars. I don't call the police. That's ridiculous!!! WE LOOK OUT FOR EACH OTHER!!!
I'm sorry, but I think this country has become way too greedy. Its all about ourselves... screw everyone else. I'm not saying we buy cars for everyone who doesn't own one now. I'm saying that health care should be something where we all help each other. Without each other, who are we...
As Americans we have got to stop this thought process that we are only in this for ourselves. What if the military said they would only protect folks that are in the military. What if you called 911 and the police said..."Oh sorry, you're on your own". I haven't called the police ever but I still pay taxes to cover everyone. Should I stop paying for the police or military, I didn't start any of the wars. I don't call the police. That's ridiculous!!! WE LOOK OUT FOR EACH OTHER!!!
I'm sorry, but I think this country has become way too greedy. Its all about ourselves... screw everyone else. I'm not saying we buy cars for everyone who doesn't own one now. I'm saying that health care should be something where we all help each other. Without each other, who are we...
51
I'll admit that I couldn't bring myself to read all of this article. So maybe I missed the silver lining. But, honestly, it just made me want to wretch. What should be the PURPOSE of health insurance? "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights.."
SO WHAT is the purpose of health insurance for a cancer victim whose insurance doesn't cover her chemotherapy? So what citizen needs "life-saving" if she can't afford it without bankruptcy while, to her insurer, the cost is barely a drop in the bucket?? I can guess that this makes sense to the relatively well-heeled among us, but what about ordinary citizens?
SO WHAT is the purpose of health insurance for a cancer victim whose insurance doesn't cover her chemotherapy? So what citizen needs "life-saving" if she can't afford it without bankruptcy while, to her insurer, the cost is barely a drop in the bucket?? I can guess that this makes sense to the relatively well-heeled among us, but what about ordinary citizens?
27
In the pure sense, health insurance is for the purpose of indemnifying a loss due to illness. There is no point in purchasing a product that cherry picks which losses will be indemnified. Health care on the other-hand is about our ability to access accumulated knowledge and developed health systems to treat or recover from illness, reduce suffering, and sometimes return mortality to a more natural clock. My issue is who has the right to access that accumulated human knowledge and those developed systems? Who has a right to minimize their suffering or suffering of a loved one? Who has a right to return mortality to it's rightful time at the end of a normal human lifespan? Who? The rich? The anger builds as I type. I say it's everybody or nobody. Life is life. Mine is as important as yours and my dad's is as important as your dad's. Period.
64
Give everyone the healthcare choices available to Congress. If it's good enough for them, it is good enough for the rest of us.
53
If this happens my new healthcare plan will have to be a gun. Seriously. I'll take myself out before dying a slow agonizing death because I won't be able to afford my medicine or insurance. I seriously don't give a damn anymore.
20
As someone that relies on Obamacare and needs it for the next four years or so, I am going to need some anxiety treatments soon. The Republicans, magnanimous Christians all, and their plan for "health" care replacement, should at least provide a shovel and a plot to dig your own grave.
44
Looking at this from the 30,000 foot level, I believe a fundamental victory has already been won. Thanks to the effectiveness of the ACA, people expect the federal government to have a nationwide plan in place to ensure the broadest possible access to care.
That is what makes it so difficult for the GOP. The people demand a plan that will not reduce the number of insured, and the Freedom Caucus demands tax cuts for the rich. The only way forward is for the GOP to propose a plan that dramatically reduces the value of insurance, which is what Trumpcare 1.0 and 2.0 both attempt.
I'm grateful to the Democratic legislature of 7 years ago for their fruitful efforts, and fearful of how the GOP will now try to pass off another tax cut bill as a healthcare bill.
That is what makes it so difficult for the GOP. The people demand a plan that will not reduce the number of insured, and the Freedom Caucus demands tax cuts for the rich. The only way forward is for the GOP to propose a plan that dramatically reduces the value of insurance, which is what Trumpcare 1.0 and 2.0 both attempt.
I'm grateful to the Democratic legislature of 7 years ago for their fruitful efforts, and fearful of how the GOP will now try to pass off another tax cut bill as a healthcare bill.
40
Those of us who consider ourselves liberals and progressives need to remember that there are no free lunches. Whether a universal one-payer system or private insurance, revenue must exceed cost to survive long term. The Freedom Caucus is trying, in part, to reconcile revenue and costs to make the market attractive to both insurers and insured. But the problem is that the debate is focused solely on the market addressed by the ACA, with everyone forgetting about the much larger group market which includes employer, Medicare supplemental and drug plans. Aetna may be loosing money on its ACA plans in some states but when looked at operationally overall, Aetna is profitable. Rates should be set based on insurance companies' cost for plans in all segments, and if a company decides to pull out of one segment (i.e. ACA plans) in a state, it should be forced out of all segments in that state.
25
Under a free market understanding of health care, people with expensive medical problems should be treated by charity, paid for only by those who want to contribute to such charity. Under this understanding, it is theft to force someone who has no expensive medical problems to contribute to those who do.
Charities for those with various expensive medical problems would run ads that would compete for our dollars with ads from animal shelters and poor foreign children with cleft palates. Maybe they would raise enough money and maybe they would not. And if people with expensive medical conditions feel humiliated by accepting charity, they can decline it and pray to God for a minor miracle; somehow charity from God in the form of a minor miracle is different from charity from fellow citizens, even if they disguise this charity by making health care a right.
Charities for those with various expensive medical problems would run ads that would compete for our dollars with ads from animal shelters and poor foreign children with cleft palates. Maybe they would raise enough money and maybe they would not. And if people with expensive medical conditions feel humiliated by accepting charity, they can decline it and pray to God for a minor miracle; somehow charity from God in the form of a minor miracle is different from charity from fellow citizens, even if they disguise this charity by making health care a right.
10
Catastrophic illnesses or accidents can happen at anytime, to anyone. Hope there is a charity to help you, should you be so unfortunate. Karma.
25
Hopefully your comments are facetious...
In a true free market you would expect those in need to offer what they could...a kidney, a piece of liver, your babies stem cells from the cord, or bone marrow...is that the free market you imagine? A world where the weakest among us trade pieces of ourselves and our family members in exchange for care in a capitalist inhumane society?
I will pay my taxes. I will also pay a higher rate if it is good for society and we are all healthier and better for it. Taxes make for a civil society and the libertarians among us should try living in a place with no government and see how safe they feel. I have relatives that have recently moved from South Africa and Argentina and they would not go back.
In a true free market you would expect those in need to offer what they could...a kidney, a piece of liver, your babies stem cells from the cord, or bone marrow...is that the free market you imagine? A world where the weakest among us trade pieces of ourselves and our family members in exchange for care in a capitalist inhumane society?
I will pay my taxes. I will also pay a higher rate if it is good for society and we are all healthier and better for it. Taxes make for a civil society and the libertarians among us should try living in a place with no government and see how safe they feel. I have relatives that have recently moved from South Africa and Argentina and they would not go back.
10
I can only assume, and hope this is sarcasm.
Insurance takes on the will of G-d; why confront it. Onlybwhen EVERYONE in the country is on the SAME PLAN will we be able to get over this asinine exception and bogus choices. The chances for a young person 'suddenly' getting sick are ever increasing; it is in tje interest of the younger, and for now healthy, to participate in creating a safe pool. When these now young are older they will have a viable plan. Tje more one reasons this the more it points towatds Mexicare for all eligible. Eliminate so called Cadillac plans with low-no deductibles and copays.
Insurance takes on the will of G-d; why confront it. Onlybwhen EVERYONE in the country is on the SAME PLAN will we be able to get over this asinine exception and bogus choices. The chances for a young person 'suddenly' getting sick are ever increasing; it is in tje interest of the younger, and for now healthy, to participate in creating a safe pool. When these now young are older they will have a viable plan. Tje more one reasons this the more it points towatds Mexicare for all eligible. Eliminate so called Cadillac plans with low-no deductibles and copays.
10
I had gone without health insurance due to a preexisting condition. I had one seizure in 1980 and was denied insurance some 30 odd years later because of that ONE seizure. I was deliriously happy to have turned 65 and become eligible for Medicare.
And we can only guess which states will be first in line to skip out of the essential benefits and community rating provisions....states in the deep South, those in the Rust Belt, and those in the middle of the country. In general those are the states most in need of those provisions. And they are the states where most of the trump voters live. Will those people ever learn what a mistake they have made? Will this finally do it? Will they ever care? As they bring us all down?
A pox on the damn, inhumane Republicans as they continue to cut down any policy that shows any indication of helping the country, the environment, or the inhabitants of the US and most likely, the world.
And we can only guess which states will be first in line to skip out of the essential benefits and community rating provisions....states in the deep South, those in the Rust Belt, and those in the middle of the country. In general those are the states most in need of those provisions. And they are the states where most of the trump voters live. Will those people ever learn what a mistake they have made? Will this finally do it? Will they ever care? As they bring us all down?
A pox on the damn, inhumane Republicans as they continue to cut down any policy that shows any indication of helping the country, the environment, or the inhabitants of the US and most likely, the world.
81
Yes, they would create a lot of misery for millions of Americans. But they don't care about that. They aren't even thinking of that. Supplicants of plutocrats, like Mark Meadows, just know they owe their seat to the plutocrats who've bought them. In Meadows case, the plutocrats who bought a redistricting of Meadows' district that pulled the liberal part of Ashville, NC out so he could be elected.
Meadows knows he has to deliver major tax cuts for the plutocrats or he will be primaried. The plutocrats don't care about him or anyone else unless they can deliver tax cuts or government funds. But, they can't buy the most valuable thing. They should have listened to Bob Dylan:
"You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks
You that never done nothin’
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it’s your little toy
But there’s one thing I know
Though I’m younger than you
Even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do
Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul"
Meadows knows he has to deliver major tax cuts for the plutocrats or he will be primaried. The plutocrats don't care about him or anyone else unless they can deliver tax cuts or government funds. But, they can't buy the most valuable thing. They should have listened to Bob Dylan:
"You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks
You that never done nothin’
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it’s your little toy
But there’s one thing I know
Though I’m younger than you
Even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do
Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul"
58
Wow! Trump and Ryan are planning a health care system based on denying coverage to those who need it most.
47
Why in the world should any one want to subsidize health savings accounts for healthy wealthy people while sick and poor people, can't get health insurance?! I can understand , tho not appreciate, republicans wanting to have government out of health care, or a bare bones catastrophic plan everyone, but this is the most revealing proposal yet of their mendacity and greed...what a scam,
38
Prediction: the new iteration of Trumpcare will cost tens of millions of Americans their Healthcare Insurance in order to fund massive tax cuts for the wealthy.
The Republican Party is as predictable as the sunrise.
It's guiding principle: Serve the rich, and to Hell with everyone else.
The Republican Party is as predictable as the sunrise.
It's guiding principle: Serve the rich, and to Hell with everyone else.
38
What is happening in health care, EPA, education, etc, etc is just cruel! Billionaires accumulating wealth and power at the expense of the masses cannot end well.
Most of the people in power profess Christian beliefs. Justice will be served in the next life where "the last shall be first and the first shall be last."
Leadership is taking care of the citizenry, no being pigs at the trough
Most of the people in power profess Christian beliefs. Justice will be served in the next life where "the last shall be first and the first shall be last."
Leadership is taking care of the citizenry, no being pigs at the trough
19
This is what Trump voters wanted: an end to affordable health insurance and a Supreme Court justice who believes that someone should be fired if he doesn't choose to freeze to death performing his job.
51
This is the party that looks out for common working family?
42
I would tell people to watch the documentary of Michael Moore Sicko, the idea is to make workers dependent on their employers and corporate America for their health care and accept whatever bone is thrown at them .
it is simply the trickle down economy where everything is given to the top and the vast majority at the bottom can only hope that some wealth will come down .
when so many at the bottom keep voting against their own interest , the system is pretty much perfect for the overlords
it is simply the trickle down economy where everything is given to the top and the vast majority at the bottom can only hope that some wealth will come down .
when so many at the bottom keep voting against their own interest , the system is pretty much perfect for the overlords
34
Welcome to post-industrial feudalism.
11
Where have Republicans been for 30 years? Heritage Foundation plan adopted by Massachusetts under Romney became the ACA. There is no alternative that is comprehensive except single payer.
38
Right. So evidently the GOP desires to cover up this embarrassing state of affairs, namely that the Democrats enacted a conservative, market-oriented plan, by repealing the ACA and not replacing it functionally. Rather, they seek to put in something that benefits the richer folks and doesn't actually function as health coverage for those who aren't already well-off, and then claim that they replaced the ACA. It is a bait and switch. If they were not looking to keep their seats, they'd just repeal the ACA--use the switch and not bother with the bait. It comes down to the same thing for a whole lot of people.
6
The healthcare proposals offered by the Republicans will hurt the most vulnerable in our society. And it is possible that any one of us can one day become vulnerable when we are suddenly faced with a devastating illness. I am saddened by the lack of empathy and downright inhumanity of the Trump administration.
34
As a Canadian, the prospect of a return to a bleak landscape in American health care makes one appreciate even more our so-called "socialized" (i.e. universal access) medicine. All gloating aside, there is a pervading sense of sadness and real puzzlement that your Christian conservatives seem unable to make the connection between the tenets of their faith and caring for one another's health.
78
Big money donors have paid big bucks to put many GOP members of Congress in their seats. To be fair, a few Democratic candidates also got some funds. At least some of these people hate having the Federal Government involved in health care at all. They tried to stop the ACA before it passed. They've tried to get it repealed several times since. I actually don't think it is personal. It's the principle of the thing. 24 million people losing insurance is just a statistic for them. These donors and these members of Congress don't know those people who will lose insurance coverage. But if the members of Congress don't roll back Obamacare, the big donors may finance challengers for the seats of GOP incumbents. This isn't some sandlot basketball game. Those people spent almost as much as the two main political parties in the last election. Now this bill is coming due.
11
Every day it becomes increasingly clearer that the immutable laws of economics mean that unless the Republicans want to allow medical underwriting, that is where insurance companies can reject applicants with preexisting conditions, something very close to Obamacare must be retained.
Demand for medical care is inelastic. Controlling prices charged by doctors and hospitals via the use of monopsony like the rest of the developed world does is an anathema to Republicans. Monopsony, meaning "single buyer" is the flip side of monopoly. A monopsonist sets prices below free market equilibrium. It does not matter if there is an actual single payer or many buyers (or payers) whose prices are set by the government or by insurance companies in collusion with each other. see: Obamacare And Beyond: The Outlook For The Healthcare Sector. http://seekingalpha.com/article/1647632
As it is dawning on the Republicans, any system that does not explicitly control prices must have mandates and subsidies similar to those in Obamacare. Otherwise, most individual insurance policies would be far beyond the reach of middle class Americans since, without medical underwriting insurance companies would have to price their policies based on the assumption that the applicant has a costly preexisting condition..."
http://seekingalpha.com/article/4042715
Demand for medical care is inelastic. Controlling prices charged by doctors and hospitals via the use of monopsony like the rest of the developed world does is an anathema to Republicans. Monopsony, meaning "single buyer" is the flip side of monopoly. A monopsonist sets prices below free market equilibrium. It does not matter if there is an actual single payer or many buyers (or payers) whose prices are set by the government or by insurance companies in collusion with each other. see: Obamacare And Beyond: The Outlook For The Healthcare Sector. http://seekingalpha.com/article/1647632
As it is dawning on the Republicans, any system that does not explicitly control prices must have mandates and subsidies similar to those in Obamacare. Otherwise, most individual insurance policies would be far beyond the reach of middle class Americans since, without medical underwriting insurance companies would have to price their policies based on the assumption that the applicant has a costly preexisting condition..."
http://seekingalpha.com/article/4042715
9
So up until now I have been in a naive comfort zone thinking that there won't be any impact to me with health care because I have employee sourced coverage.
But wait a minute!
If fewer people have coverage and less is being covered by RyanTrump-care ... won't that mean I will eventually have to pay MORE FOR MY COVERAGE I'M GETTING FROM MY EMPLOYER ???
Because after all, somebody is going to have to foot the bill for the increase in emergency care to the uninsured and it will come in the form of higher billing rates to my insurance company who will pass those costs onto me eventually in the form of premium gouging.
Shucks!
I'm not worried.
I will still have a "choice."
But wait a minute!
If fewer people have coverage and less is being covered by RyanTrump-care ... won't that mean I will eventually have to pay MORE FOR MY COVERAGE I'M GETTING FROM MY EMPLOYER ???
Because after all, somebody is going to have to foot the bill for the increase in emergency care to the uninsured and it will come in the form of higher billing rates to my insurance company who will pass those costs onto me eventually in the form of premium gouging.
Shucks!
I'm not worried.
I will still have a "choice."
10
Without the employer mandate as in Trumpcare 1.0, your company will no longer be required to provide you health care any longer.. so you could be on your own to buy Healthcare thru your company, or on your own individual plan.. with tax-credits, depending on how much salary you make, up to $75,000 a year..
10
Take joy and comfort contemplating the huge tax cuts that will be enjoyed by Millionaires and Billionaires, the only Americans that the Republicans give a tinker's dam about.
6
The Republicans don't care if Americans have healthcare or not. Their plan is to insure the rich and suppress the middle class and poor as quickly as possible. Peons die quick under Fascism.
20
Since Reagan we middle class Americans have come to think like peasantry. We have learned to do more with less but worship and serve those with more. We are now proud quiet patriots in the service of wealth and the corporations which rule America. In the first rank of our peasant patriots are the corporate sponsored politicians we elect to public office. They teach us as patriots not to expect much from each other and from our government except to serve proudly in its service. They have taught us that our liberty is protected when individuals learn to do without and die quietly in its service.
Today middle class values are being slowly eroded by a peasant class mentality. Need proof? Today we actually have patriotic middle class Americans who do not believe in Social Security or Medicare or Medicaid or Healthcare, Education, Living wages, Clean air and Clean Water. Now that's what I call thinking like a peasant.
Today middle class values are being slowly eroded by a peasant class mentality. Need proof? Today we actually have patriotic middle class Americans who do not believe in Social Security or Medicare or Medicaid or Healthcare, Education, Living wages, Clean air and Clean Water. Now that's what I call thinking like a peasant.
54
If I could recommend this more I would. Excellent analysis.
7
Until they or someone they love needs it. Then they're shocked and horrified.
6
Calling HHS tomorrow. Outrageous does not even describe how preposterous their plan would be-.
Trump has more important things to worry about, like Korea, than whether or not he got health care in the first 100 days. Besides, he is on record as wanting universal health care--he has always had liberal leanings in the area of health care--now look at what he is saying--he has no soul. The Times could not print how mad this makes me.
Trump has more important things to worry about, like Korea, than whether or not he got health care in the first 100 days. Besides, he is on record as wanting universal health care--he has always had liberal leanings in the area of health care--now look at what he is saying--he has no soul. The Times could not print how mad this makes me.
17
From Obamacare to Wejustdon'tcare.
35
It's pretty obvious at this point that the GOP proposals are all slanted in favor of employer-provided insurance. Preexisting conditions and other restrictions are not a factor if you are automatically covered through your job. Furthermore, those group policies are subsidized by the government through employer tax breaks.
On the other hand, self-employed people — a growing segment of the labor force — are literally on their own. Even if they give up and try to find a job that provides insurance benefits, they had better not be very old. Older employees taint the risk pool and cost the employer more money.
Despite all the GOP lip service regarding the virtues of entrepreneurship and self-reliance, it's almost as if they WANT people to be beholden to an employer for their healthcare. That is, after all, the work world as the Chamber of Commerce would prefer it.
On the other hand, self-employed people — a growing segment of the labor force — are literally on their own. Even if they give up and try to find a job that provides insurance benefits, they had better not be very old. Older employees taint the risk pool and cost the employer more money.
Despite all the GOP lip service regarding the virtues of entrepreneurship and self-reliance, it's almost as if they WANT people to be beholden to an employer for their healthcare. That is, after all, the work world as the Chamber of Commerce would prefer it.
18
The Freedom Caucus seems to be a gathering place, like a watering hole, for the least considerate individuals in our country. Considerate in the sense of thinking through situations to get to a considerable understanding of problems which cannot be avoided. The chances of anyone developing some life threatening disease which requires huge expenditures of money to treat with any chance of assuring long term survival are determined by counting the people in a population who become sick and who recover or not. There are no assurances about who will and will not find themselves in such a situation. This is the reason that offering health insurance according to peoples' state of health is folly and why the only way to keep costs down is to keep to the principle that since all may participate without knowing how much nor for what kinds of treatments, all must contribute equally.
21
Sick patients don't wait until the next day. When patients are short of breath, having a heart attack, or experiencing complications from their diabetes they will seek care. Cardiac stents, emergent dialysis and intensive care are expensive. Who will care for these patients? The emergency physician will. Emergency rooms will have to absorb the medical catastrophe generated by this plan. Emergency room overcrowding will worsen. Longer waits will be routine, consultants-some who currently are not available- will be overburdened and clinical outcomes will be less favorable. Republicans must consider this scenario!
15
Focusing attention on the insurance companies, which are simply intermediaries between the doctors and the patients, was a tragic error. It would like trying to solve a problem of high energy prices by focusing on gasoline stations. Only if the government sets prices can health care prices be controlled. Controlling prices does not automatically result in longer waiting times. Japan generally has shorter waiting times to see doctors than does the USA. Additionally, if prices were controlled there would be no such thing as "in-network" or "out-of-network" since all doctors would accept all insurance plans.
Price inelasticity in medical care stems not from the physical nature of its delivery as is the case of retail electricity. Rather, it is the dynamics of how medical care is delivered via the patient -doctor relationship. How many people have ever negotiated with a doctor over the price before undergoing necessary treatment? Have you ever met anyone who got up off an examination table and walked out because the doctor quoted too high a price? In theory, sick people could shop for the lowest price, but they don't. An individual gasoline station faces elastic demand. People must buy gasoline, but if one station raises its price enough, customers will go elsewhere. When an individual doctor increases fees, most customers don't go elsewhere. Thus, fees will continue to rise until prices reach the elastic portion of the demand curve..."
http://seekingalpha.com/article/1647632
Price inelasticity in medical care stems not from the physical nature of its delivery as is the case of retail electricity. Rather, it is the dynamics of how medical care is delivered via the patient -doctor relationship. How many people have ever negotiated with a doctor over the price before undergoing necessary treatment? Have you ever met anyone who got up off an examination table and walked out because the doctor quoted too high a price? In theory, sick people could shop for the lowest price, but they don't. An individual gasoline station faces elastic demand. People must buy gasoline, but if one station raises its price enough, customers will go elsewhere. When an individual doctor increases fees, most customers don't go elsewhere. Thus, fees will continue to rise until prices reach the elastic portion of the demand curve..."
http://seekingalpha.com/article/1647632
15
It is time to get rid of for-profit health insurance, for-profit health related companies and bankruptcy causing drug costs.
Time for single payer care for all with constraints on money grubbing parasites. Drive costs down by innoculating against parasites.
Time for single payer care for all with constraints on money grubbing parasites. Drive costs down by innoculating against parasites.
24
Medical prices are controlled in various ways in the rest of the developed world. In Japan all medical care prices are listed in a book. The prices set in the book are usually less than a third of those in the USA. An MRI that costs $1,200 in the USA costs $88 in Japan. Japanese insurance companies are private as are most doctors. Japan spends less than a third per capita on medical care than America. However, the Japanese are greater consumers of medical care than Americans.
Japan's explicit price controls are roughly emulated in other countries via the use monopsonistic systems. Monopsony, meaning "single buyer" is the flip side of monopoly. A monopolist sets prices above free market equilibrium. A monopsonist sets prices below free market equilibrium. It does not matter if there is an actual single payer or many buyers (or payers) whose prices are set by the government or by insurance companies in collusion with each other.
More competition among sellers generally leads to lower prices. However, more competition among buyers leads to higher prices. In the health insurance industry the beneficial effects of more insurance companies competing for patients are far outweighed by the effects of insurance companies competing for doctors and hospitals in their HMO plans. This was misunderstood during the debate on health care reform. With health care, more competition among insurance companies on balance results in higher prices. .."
http://seekingalpha.com/article/1647632
Japan's explicit price controls are roughly emulated in other countries via the use monopsonistic systems. Monopsony, meaning "single buyer" is the flip side of monopoly. A monopolist sets prices above free market equilibrium. A monopsonist sets prices below free market equilibrium. It does not matter if there is an actual single payer or many buyers (or payers) whose prices are set by the government or by insurance companies in collusion with each other.
More competition among sellers generally leads to lower prices. However, more competition among buyers leads to higher prices. In the health insurance industry the beneficial effects of more insurance companies competing for patients are far outweighed by the effects of insurance companies competing for doctors and hospitals in their HMO plans. This was misunderstood during the debate on health care reform. With health care, more competition among insurance companies on balance results in higher prices. .."
http://seekingalpha.com/article/1647632
6
Others must have already commented to this effect, but if the bill with these new provisions is enacted into law the next election will put the House Republicans who voted for it out in the street, where they will enjoy the freedom to purchase the insurance that they had foisted on their constituents.
23
Unfortunately wrong. By virtue of having served in Congress they receive lifetime health coverage.
1
@RB - "..upon separation from political life, Members of Congress may purchase FEHBP insurance if they are otherwise eligible for retirement AND if they have had five years of continuous healthcare coverage under their DC SHOP plans."
They still have to buy it but the federal govt (taxpayers) subsidize about 72% of the costs. Not bad.
http://www.snopes.com/members-congress-health-care/
They still have to buy it but the federal govt (taxpayers) subsidize about 72% of the costs. Not bad.
http://www.snopes.com/members-congress-health-care/
5
Learned physicians suggest that the health of an individual is determined 1/3rd by your environmental choices, 1/3rd genetics, and 1/3rd no one knows. So, the Conservatives apparently feel that if you don't smoke, don't drink, don't live near a pollutant, live in an place where fewer accidents happen, etc., and are a member of the lucky sperm club, you should pay less than everyone else. All others, pay up. Good luck administering that on an individual underwriting basis. Sounds like the insurance lobby has bought their souls and a tax cut is coming. The whole premise of the insurance industry has always been everyone pays more or less the same and some will end up needing it more or less than others. Its part of the bargain. The Conservative approach is a manipulation of that business model to satisfy the politics of the self-righteous, though their genetic and don't know factors may yet catch up with them when they get a little older.
8
As for the members of Congress proposing higher insurance rates for people with preexisting condition, I can't imagine that all these people don't have a pre-existing condition, and do not have a family member who has one???
7
People with cancer and other pre-existing conditions who live in the districts represented by members of the Freedom Caucus need to make life miserable for these politicians. Protest outside of every one of their fundraisers. When they run for office next time, show up at their campaign rallies with every legal means of protest available. Treat them with the same respect that they're treating the most vulnerable among us.
17
It would seem that repealing the ACA and returning the country to the way health care insurance was managed before the ACA was enacted is the only path that conservatives will accept. There will not be enough legislators who have constituencies which will accept that alternative to the ACA, so it will remain in effect, indefinitely. I doubt that Republicans can nor would wish to simply revise the laws to enable the ACA to produce better results for everyone. So, until the Democrats regain control of the Congress and the Presidency, it's going to stay as it is.
6
So, the Republicans would trade the very lives of the people with preexisting conditions who were saved when the ACA provided them the ability to obtain affordable health insurance, so that they can bring those tax cuts to the wealthy donors. If they pass this, then hope that every single one of them is pushed into bankruptcy by expensive medical care for a preexisting condition which no insurance company will cover. And then removal from office with a promise to never, never again put power into the hands of those who dare to call this cruelty "freedom of choice".
23
this is terrible. it's a ruse. what we will have is fake insurance, you will have a policy that covers nothing and if you become ill, the policy will be cancelled. the more i read the details in this proposal, the sicker i become. but whoops, i better not try to use my insurance. time for single payer. NOW.
34
Fake insurance is a wonderful way to put it. It's become just another vehicle for transferring money from one group of people to another, more powerful, one.
13
The phone number for comments to HHS Secretary Tom Price is 202-205-5445.
22
The Republicans new plan sounds like it was dreamed up by a committee of evil villains. ...Trump, Freedom Caucus, Paul Ryan. Well, I guess it actually was.
28
They're back at the drawing board because they just can't abide people having proper coverage.
16
It bears repeating. This is not what the Republican President Trump promised. It is not what his supporters voted for. He said people would have better care at lower cost. He said everybody would be covered.
31
It bears repeating: Trump in a pathological liar.
8
Maybe the folks who keep voting for these people will wake up and realize that they are viewed with contempt by Republican politicians. They are voting to make their own lives miserable.
This flimsy excuse for health insurance will only produce greater misery for people already burdened by illness, all for the benefit of tax cuts.
21
With the Republicans, it seems the only way to have any individual personal freedom or security is to be a fetus.
40
Ah. Now I know what the Freedom Caucus means when it (cynically it turns out) uses that word to describe itself. Corporations. Freedom for corporations. Because to that caucus, corporations are the only "persons" who matter.
25
Perhaps. Today I heard one of them saying on the radio that their group is an intellectually conservative group that doesn't move in "lock-step" when voting.
How resoundingly intellectual that notion sounds..... corporations as persons.
NOT
Pray for America.
How resoundingly intellectual that notion sounds..... corporations as persons.
NOT
Pray for America.
8
As I like to say to people who support these measures, what exactly is the end game socially speaking? It usually comes down to some version of, this will force people to better plan for the future.
But I wonder what the percentage is of US citizens living paycheck to paycheck. One cannot plan for the future under those economic conditions, including retirement. The Republicans seem to enjoy setting up all these ticking timebombs, and I suspect they think that when they go off, well, that is just the cost of a truly "free" society.
Social Darwinism, it used to be called.
But I wonder what the percentage is of US citizens living paycheck to paycheck. One cannot plan for the future under those economic conditions, including retirement. The Republicans seem to enjoy setting up all these ticking timebombs, and I suspect they think that when they go off, well, that is just the cost of a truly "free" society.
Social Darwinism, it used to be called.
17
Many weeks ago I predicted Tump's gang would simply junk hated Obamacare, replacing it with nothing; how much lipstick slapped on their pig irrelevant to its porcine squalor. And here we are: many more billions of dollars spent on a rapidly expanded war in eastern Syria, and more high-tech armaments, all financed by gutting red state America's healthcare. A geo-strategic catastrophe on both sides of the Atlantic to be sure but -- who notices?
Trump will now initiate the next step in his plan: turn Americans against each other to further his own interests; especially to mask his Russian conections. He will mobilize his white, red-state Republican base by diverting its attention from everything he's doing sure to hurt them starting with the heath-care services he's taking from them -- nothing less than their future welfare in many cases -- by refocusing their scorn and hatred on racial and ethnic minorities.
Divide and conquer still works, and rules.
Trump will now initiate the next step in his plan: turn Americans against each other to further his own interests; especially to mask his Russian conections. He will mobilize his white, red-state Republican base by diverting its attention from everything he's doing sure to hurt them starting with the heath-care services he's taking from them -- nothing less than their future welfare in many cases -- by refocusing their scorn and hatred on racial and ethnic minorities.
Divide and conquer still works, and rules.
28
And don't forget about the outside help to this clever little plan.
Russian directives to Syrian puppets to create a media dominating event, like killing over 35 children foaming at the mouth from a chemical attack.
We live in unreal times.
Pray for America.
Russian directives to Syrian puppets to create a media dominating event, like killing over 35 children foaming at the mouth from a chemical attack.
We live in unreal times.
Pray for America.
9
The Republican, after seven years of whining about how bad Obama care is are now in conceptual talks over a new health care bill.
That is 144 days since this democracy's 9/11 (November 11,2016, The Presidential Election Day.)
How much more incompetent can this party of Lincoln's get?
I want "W" back.
What a shining light he has become.
That is 144 days since this democracy's 9/11 (November 11,2016, The Presidential Election Day.)
How much more incompetent can this party of Lincoln's get?
I want "W" back.
What a shining light he has become.
15
Scary, isn't it.
I'm a local. I'm expecting the intelligence community to lower the boom any day. They've got everything. I expect they can prove Steele's entire report. But they've got lots more than that.
Wait for it, but call your Senators weekly. The House seems to have folded. (Staff doesn't get the bonus vacations. They'll still be on the phones.) In 2018, replace EVERYONE in the House. They work for us.
I'm a local. I'm expecting the intelligence community to lower the boom any day. They've got everything. I expect they can prove Steele's entire report. But they've got lots more than that.
Wait for it, but call your Senators weekly. The House seems to have folded. (Staff doesn't get the bonus vacations. They'll still be on the phones.) In 2018, replace EVERYONE in the House. They work for us.
3
Republicans seem to hate the idea of federal regulation so much that they willfully try to do things (like removing the pre-existing conditions provision) that would hurt people and even ensure their deaths. What kind of human beings are they? They're certainly unchristian.
17
Unchristian? How about inhumane?
5
Trump voters, are you unhappy yet? Do you know what's coming down on you? It's both mean and bad, and healthcare just may put you over the top.
14
What the GOP fails to note is that the American system produces the worst outcomes in the civilized world, at twice the cost other nations pay.
Yeah, we let people die cause they don't get routine care, live sicker, die quicker, and pay more. Other nations that don't follow our shameful example give away care to everybody, never even asking whether they deserve it or can afford it. And they live longer, healthier lives. And to top it off, they pay as little as half what we pay.
You don't have to be stupid to be born into this system. But to think it's good, and like the GOP, want to keep it, yeah.
Stupid about covers it
Yeah, we let people die cause they don't get routine care, live sicker, die quicker, and pay more. Other nations that don't follow our shameful example give away care to everybody, never even asking whether they deserve it or can afford it. And they live longer, healthier lives. And to top it off, they pay as little as half what we pay.
You don't have to be stupid to be born into this system. But to think it's good, and like the GOP, want to keep it, yeah.
Stupid about covers it
21
In the USA we have attempted to deal with the combination of inelastic demand and unregulated medical care prices in various ways. One method of keeping medical care expense as a percent of GDP to "only" double that of other developed countries was to have a significant portion of the population uninsured and denied medical care in some circumstances. The existence of large numbers of uninsured (conscripts in the war against rising medical costs) did moderate the growth in health care costs.
HMO's were once thought to be a way of dealing with the inexorable price increases. The problem is that HMOs have to compete against each other for services of doctors and hospitals. As long as medical prices are set by market forces, the inelasticity of demand will force market prices inexorably higher. In a "mixed system" with both free-market and controlled health care prices like the USA, prices inexorably are driven upwards to the market level as long as demand is inelastic. Prices such as payments from Medicare that are "controlled" have to be increased continuously with legislation such as the "doctor-fix" to stay competitive with market prices. Medical prices can only be effectively controlled either by direct price controls or where everyone gets care for "free" from the government. In those countries only the extremely wealthy can chose not to use the government paid health services that they have already paid for with their taxes..."
http://seekingalpha.com/article/1647632
HMO's were once thought to be a way of dealing with the inexorable price increases. The problem is that HMOs have to compete against each other for services of doctors and hospitals. As long as medical prices are set by market forces, the inelasticity of demand will force market prices inexorably higher. In a "mixed system" with both free-market and controlled health care prices like the USA, prices inexorably are driven upwards to the market level as long as demand is inelastic. Prices such as payments from Medicare that are "controlled" have to be increased continuously with legislation such as the "doctor-fix" to stay competitive with market prices. Medical prices can only be effectively controlled either by direct price controls or where everyone gets care for "free" from the government. In those countries only the extremely wealthy can chose not to use the government paid health services that they have already paid for with their taxes..."
http://seekingalpha.com/article/1647632
2
Are they that tone deaf? Really? Not too mention heartless as well.
15
NYT team - I'd be very curious to see you report on the type of the health coverage that covers members of Congress. Does it cover existing conditions? Viagra?
24
They are provided with ACA coverage -
That would require a level of intelligence on their behalves which has been totally absent up to this point.
But we can hope.
But we can hope.
5
Buying insurance after you get sick is like buying car insurance after you get in an accident. It's not insurance, it's welfare.
5
Pre-existing condition pricing - known as "risk adjusting" in insurancespeak is the crux of the matter. Car companies can charge you more if you are in a lot of accidents, homeowners policies will cost more if trees fall down and kill someone because the assumption that you are a higher risk is not unreasonable. If you are a skinny, nonsmoking marathoner you can still get breast cancer and have complications from radiation and chemo and cancer can come back. This is not the same.
18
The transparent fact is this: Ryan-McConnell are not thinking about healthcare. They are thinking about how to arrange a tax cut for the 1/4% and foist it upon the taxpayers as something else.
It is a misuse of time to try to explain why the GOP healthcare won't work as healthcare. The real discussion they are concerned with is whether they can SELL their tax cut under the guise of healthcare while actually removing healthcare.
That's not a simple thing to do, and of course, it is a deplorable thing to do.
It is a misuse of time to try to explain why the GOP healthcare won't work as healthcare. The real discussion they are concerned with is whether they can SELL their tax cut under the guise of healthcare while actually removing healthcare.
That's not a simple thing to do, and of course, it is a deplorable thing to do.
20
Trump's hardcore base will happily have their insurance coverage gutted while blindly nodding their heads in agreement at every word out of Trump's mouth.
They will gladly sacrifice the health of themselves and their families in exchange for tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, all out of loyalty to their President.
They will gladly sacrifice the health of themselves and their families in exchange for tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, all out of loyalty to their President.
20
I'm not sure if it's so much loyalty to Trump as it is hatred for anything that they see coming from liberals.
Such is the human spirit when it is feed inspirational words that nurture prejudice and hate.
Bannon must have restful sleep every night knowing what is transpiring.
Bannon must have restful sleep every night knowing what is transpiring.
8
This issue is so easy to solve. Want to cover medical pre- existing conditions and give everyone affordable health care? Cut the military budget by 50% from $600 billion to $300 billion per year. The US would still spend more than the next 5 countries combined. And it would still have the bragging rights to the largest military industrial complex welfare program in the world. Amazing how much the US govt. loves to spend money to kill and how miserly it is when it comes to protecting life.
28
The allowance of pre-existing conditions changes the definition of the word insurance. The correct definition is a prepayment for unexpected future events. Allowing pre-existing events to be covered is a pipe dream only those unfamiliar with economics and human nature could support. For those with pre-existing conditions a risk pool with tax support would need to be created along with a robust charity care system staffed by professionals. As far as contractsts being cancelled, legislation can stipulate strict limits and harsh penalties such as 3 years no denial for any reason one a policy is approved and underwritten. Costs can be controlled by tax deductible health savings accounts carried over for unlimited years to build account balances that pay for any health costs to lower premiums for catastrophic expenses
2
You don't seem to understand that most people were insured, got sick and couldn't work lost their insurance and then couldn't buy it .Some became uninsured after they lost jobs because of the economy The other issue is some 18 year olds were uninsurable because of illnesses when they were a kid. Those pre-employment physicals weeded out the ones that could be costly and so they weren't hired. Very few people just sat back until they got sick and then wanted in. My cousin with diabetes was one of them. In 2006 he looked for insurance after losing a job and finally found a high risk pool. Insurance would have cost him 33,000 a year and his diabetes wouldn't be covered for 6 months. By age 40, 26 % of people have a preexisting condition.
12
Mark. Your plan is stupidly complex . What we need in America is socialized medicine-an extension of Medicare. Exactly why should Americans have worse insurance than other countries? But we do! Canadians are happy with their healthcare and Canada is not as wealthy as America. We are not happy with our health care and universal coverage is the only viable solution. Americans do not deserve 3rd world health. We live in a rich country.
recently i was incidentally-found a condition that i need a life-saving medication for the rest of my life. even with insurance coverage, i paid $360+ for 30 pills for a month supply. i inquired about same medication in Canada and Hong Kong, it cost less than 1/3 what i had paid. thus is the situation of US healthcare. either food or death. and US is one of the wealthy country in the world ? --not in the sense of decency and common sense.
4
Clearly the choice the GOP has been talking about all along is as follows – the choice between having insurance and not having it, regardless of one's ability to afford it, or whether one has been unfortunate enough to have a preexisting condition.
Remember the most important thing is that you get to 'choose'.
Silly us.
Remember the most important thing is that you get to 'choose'.
Silly us.
14
EquiLibrium. We All need heathcare and there is no choice but that. G
EquiLibrium: Get to choose!? Are you kidding? Most middle class people would be happy with reasonable healthcare. Only rich people choose.. and the poor go to the emergency room to die.
In America the destitute have never had choices and with poor schooling and job discrimination for
minorities they never will have choices. Is that you plan?
In America the destitute have never had choices and with poor schooling and job discrimination for
minorities they never will have choices. Is that you plan?
1
Ryan and cronies are expending a great deal of valuable time and mental effort attempting to reduce the government cost of medical coverage. They are unwilling to attack the roots of the problem-- the medical and particularly big pharma establishments-- but instead want a virtuous cycle of proxy assault by sick people with no or poor insurance who have to beg or borrow (but not use government funds) for health care, and failing that virtuously die and cost nothing. Meanwhile the taxpayer foots Ryan's and cronies family medical bills including during retirement.
Big pharma can be tamed, because of the huge NIH investment in basic research that big pharma freely uses to generate outside cash flows, plus giant buying power of federal and state governments. There isn't a lot that can easily be done about front line medical labor; but the back office as pointed out by the NYTimes is pathetically bloated. And those are just the low hanging obvious items whose costs can be addressed.
It is, however, much easier to pass laws for granny to die destitute in a gutter.
Big pharma can be tamed, because of the huge NIH investment in basic research that big pharma freely uses to generate outside cash flows, plus giant buying power of federal and state governments. There isn't a lot that can easily be done about front line medical labor; but the back office as pointed out by the NYTimes is pathetically bloated. And those are just the low hanging obvious items whose costs can be addressed.
It is, however, much easier to pass laws for granny to die destitute in a gutter.
19
The Republicans just keep digging the hole deeper. You thought that the public response raucous with Trumpcare I - you ain't seen nothing yet if this turkey sees the light of day.
17
But they think this one will get them out of the hole. The old, sad, failing rule of negotiation is to open with a bid that is so crazy the other side will think you are reasonable when you start dropping some of your nuttier provisions - well, we can't mandate healthcare, but maybe some pre-existing conditions could be covered.... This is Trump's pathetic, outdated art of the deal 101. In the face of negative public response, they'll start peeling away some of the totally kooky concepts and thereby position themselves as reasonable. No one should fall for this! Just say NO!
8
The republican solution: Lower premiums for health insurance policies for when you are healthy that doesn't cover you if you get sick. What a smart idea...not! Insurance is not for when you are healthy. If you were only buying it when healthy it should be free. It's to cover you if/when you get sick which will happen since we all will die last I heard. That's why premiums should be community rated so you pay for others when they are sick so others pay for you when you get sick. It's called risk sharing which makes sense. Otherwise healthy people will get low premiums but when they get sick their insurance won't cover the costs and if they try to get coverage for the illness the premiums will be too high to afford.
14
The repubs and trump's plan is too have all the sick go without medical care so as to speed up them dying so they can't vote! It's the repub version of DEATH PANELS!
14
Hope it will crash and burn as the first did. Some Repubs are so smug and selfish and men-spiried. Take away their health insurance and perks so they can live life on the edge.
13
And when Trump voters with pre-existing conditions figure out that Trump has sold them out, will they then regret having voted for him?
6
Probably not. We're not talking about rational, thinking people.
11
Freedom Caucus = freedom from paying taxes = freedom to deprive millions of education = freedom to deprive millions of health care = freedom to deprive women and minorities of rights = freedom to break immigrant families apart
10
This is like the Dracula movie where, if you don't dry a silver stake through his heart, he rises up and comes back at you again.
8
The Republican attempt to repeal Obamacare is not about health coverage. Republican representatives don't know or care two hoops about that. All they really want is cut tax for the rich by $275 Billion only for those making taxable income greater than $200,000 (single) or $250,000 (filing jointly) plus $1 Trillion in Medicaid subsidies plus $919 Billion in premium and cost sharing subsidies.
Trump and Ryan had to withdraw their bill before a vote because the radical Republicans (Freedom Caucus) wanted more drastic cuts. Now they are offering those cuts - that would probably make coverage unaffordable for the 52 million Americans with pre-existing conditions.
Wealthy Americans are paying a smaller portion of their incomes in taxes than they every have. Yet they want bigger tax cuts. How much is enough? Is there any lower limit - short of paying nothing - that would satisfy them?
Trump and Ryan had to withdraw their bill before a vote because the radical Republicans (Freedom Caucus) wanted more drastic cuts. Now they are offering those cuts - that would probably make coverage unaffordable for the 52 million Americans with pre-existing conditions.
Wealthy Americans are paying a smaller portion of their incomes in taxes than they every have. Yet they want bigger tax cuts. How much is enough? Is there any lower limit - short of paying nothing - that would satisfy them?
23
The "freedom caucus" may be safe, but as for the moderate Republicans, the 2018 campaign ads write themselves. The only good thing about this proposal, is that red state legislatures will be the ones to take insurance away from their constituents, many of whom will be Trump supporters. Do you think they'll learn?
8
"Do you think they'll learn?"
Highly unlikely based on the evidence we have seen thus far, but we can hope.
Highly unlikely based on the evidence we have seen thus far, but we can hope.
5
The GOP is willing to spend billions of our dollars for perceived threats (terrorists), that kill few of us, but is loathe to spend our money to protect us from the real threats (illness) that robs us of life and wellbeing.
Cost benefit analyses mean nothing to them; clinging to power by promoting fear means everything.
They embody greed and lust - nothing more. They wear religious values like their Ole Glory lapel pins - for image only.
Cost benefit analyses mean nothing to them; clinging to power by promoting fear means everything.
They embody greed and lust - nothing more. They wear religious values like their Ole Glory lapel pins - for image only.
30
So Paul Ryan - How is that thing about having "choice" the most important reform goal going? Choice to not be able to get insurance?
Pre-existing conditions locks people into jobs they may want to leave. It allowed insurers to deny health care to sick people by looking up old illness unrelated to claims and then cancelling policies by claiming pre-exisiting condition not reported.
It was one of the worst of the worst in the pre-ACA world.
P.S. Here is a simple universal health plan you would probably back. Just have a plan that covers nothing but covers everyone for a single low annual premium that goes to insurance company investors to pay their high administrative expenses..
Pre-existing conditions locks people into jobs they may want to leave. It allowed insurers to deny health care to sick people by looking up old illness unrelated to claims and then cancelling policies by claiming pre-exisiting condition not reported.
It was one of the worst of the worst in the pre-ACA world.
P.S. Here is a simple universal health plan you would probably back. Just have a plan that covers nothing but covers everyone for a single low annual premium that goes to insurance company investors to pay their high administrative expenses..
20
Removing the pre-existing condition exclusion takes us back to the situation before the ACA. Premiums might fall if insurers could cancel policies for expensive customers because the pre-existing condition customers likely caused the cost and premium increases (See Health Insurance by the Numbers http://bit.ly/2m4zUhZ). But what kind of system is this?
I think citizens need to ask their representatives whether or not they want some kind of system where everyone can access health care or one where 20% cannot. And ask them over and over again. Neither side has a plan where everyone can play. The ACA is an entitlement program and so is the AHCA and any solution will be.
What's happening in the individual market is an artifact of the pre-ACA system where people with health insurance benefits had 3/4 of their premium paid for by their employer (affordable) and the individual market paid in full (barely or not affordable). The ACA pushed uninsured (high cost people on the average) into the individual market, drove up costs and prices, subsidized the low income customers and forced the rest of the individual market customers to pay for a national problem because the government did not fully fund their mandate. The result is lots more people who cannot afford insurance.
The AHCA fixes one problem and creates another. It helps medium income people who did not get ACA subsidies to bring premiums into line with corporate benefits but turns around and hurts low income elderly.
I think citizens need to ask their representatives whether or not they want some kind of system where everyone can access health care or one where 20% cannot. And ask them over and over again. Neither side has a plan where everyone can play. The ACA is an entitlement program and so is the AHCA and any solution will be.
What's happening in the individual market is an artifact of the pre-ACA system where people with health insurance benefits had 3/4 of their premium paid for by their employer (affordable) and the individual market paid in full (barely or not affordable). The ACA pushed uninsured (high cost people on the average) into the individual market, drove up costs and prices, subsidized the low income customers and forced the rest of the individual market customers to pay for a national problem because the government did not fully fund their mandate. The result is lots more people who cannot afford insurance.
The AHCA fixes one problem and creates another. It helps medium income people who did not get ACA subsidies to bring premiums into line with corporate benefits but turns around and hurts low income elderly.
2
...aaaand we're right back where we started.
People with pre-existing conditions WILL get medical care. When they are desperate, when the condition has become expensive to fix, when they show up at an ER and the doctors are required by their Hippocratic Oath to treat that person. Expensively. And we all pay for it. Except the super-rich of course who can evade taxes.
One point of Obamacare, if it's been forgotten, is to avoid the inevitable collapse of an idiotic system that delivers expensive care, badly. Americans are less healthy for more money than other developed nations. People not getting the care they need till it's almost too late is a big reason why. Greedy insurance companies and big pharma also play a role.
People with pre-existing conditions WILL get medical care. When they are desperate, when the condition has become expensive to fix, when they show up at an ER and the doctors are required by their Hippocratic Oath to treat that person. Expensively. And we all pay for it. Except the super-rich of course who can evade taxes.
One point of Obamacare, if it's been forgotten, is to avoid the inevitable collapse of an idiotic system that delivers expensive care, badly. Americans are less healthy for more money than other developed nations. People not getting the care they need till it's almost too late is a big reason why. Greedy insurance companies and big pharma also play a role.
17
And it would seem that even "healthy people" who get these insurance plans would have no coverage when they got sick. So it would seem we would have insurance that doesn't really cover anything and it is nothing more than a money making scheme for the insurance companies. Single payer is the only option. Period.
26
In a fascist society, the old, the weak, the poor, and the sick don't count. In fact, according to fascist logic, the society as a whole is better off if the weak cease to exist. The heartlessness of Trump, Bannon, et al explained.
37
Most people have been dealing with insurance companies all their lives and know full well that they aren't going to offer better coverage for less money for everyone. If Trump had actually been able to deliver on this campaign promise, I might have rescinded my skepticism. But I knew, deep down, this was another Trump lie, more braggadocio about his super dealmaking powers. Sad. Sick guy.
Now the Republicans have come up with a brilliant plan to make health insurance premiums cheaper--eliminate health care coverage from the bill. That's the trick. The premium will get you an appointment--all the rest is negotiable.
For a party that is so fervidly pro life, you'd think they'd want to incorporate incentives to have a child, like offer low cost maternity coverage, expanded family leave, child care support, etc. (plus promise that your child won't be shot by the police for "acting out"). But, no, they'll put their money on a wall and let you scrounge for basic care. It's actually cheaper to pay out of pocket for an abortion.
Now the Republicans have come up with a brilliant plan to make health insurance premiums cheaper--eliminate health care coverage from the bill. That's the trick. The premium will get you an appointment--all the rest is negotiable.
For a party that is so fervidly pro life, you'd think they'd want to incorporate incentives to have a child, like offer low cost maternity coverage, expanded family leave, child care support, etc. (plus promise that your child won't be shot by the police for "acting out"). But, no, they'll put their money on a wall and let you scrounge for basic care. It's actually cheaper to pay out of pocket for an abortion.
12
Backroom talks among Republicans again proceeding out of the public view, without any support or even input from the health-care industries and groups. Why? For the same reasons as the original bill -- they know it will be even more unpopular, now purportedly excluding the extremely popular prohibition against preexisting conditions.
So Republicans are hoping to quietly come to a consensus that will put them over the top, and then bull-rush it through a vote before it is scored by the CBO, and before American opinion has a chance to once again solidify against it.
And then they will have something "in play" to go forward on in the Senate, as they move toward their goal of giving their $600 billion tax break to the 1% contained in the AHCA.
So Republicans are hoping to quietly come to a consensus that will put them over the top, and then bull-rush it through a vote before it is scored by the CBO, and before American opinion has a chance to once again solidify against it.
And then they will have something "in play" to go forward on in the Senate, as they move toward their goal of giving their $600 billion tax break to the 1% contained in the AHCA.
10
What gets my ire is how Republicans wrongly blame Obamacare for insurance companies losing money on the people they insured and then having to raise rates and deductibles in order to make a profit.
But the real reason is that even the insurance companies didn't realize how sick the people who previously didn't have insurance were and how costly it would be to take care of their neglected medical problems. These people had been shut out of the health system for years, and when the ACA opened up the floodgates and let these people finally in, their neglected medical needs were overwhelming and costly.
So the root cause of the ACA's problems is how badly the health system treated people who didn't have health insurance before the ACA. The ACA didn't create the mess; it was forced to deal with the mess that the pre-ACA health care system had created.
The ACA literally rescued people who were sick, suffering and even dying
under the old system. And Republicans blame the ACA because it finally
enabled these people to get desperately needed help. Shameful!
But the real reason is that even the insurance companies didn't realize how sick the people who previously didn't have insurance were and how costly it would be to take care of their neglected medical problems. These people had been shut out of the health system for years, and when the ACA opened up the floodgates and let these people finally in, their neglected medical needs were overwhelming and costly.
So the root cause of the ACA's problems is how badly the health system treated people who didn't have health insurance before the ACA. The ACA didn't create the mess; it was forced to deal with the mess that the pre-ACA health care system had created.
The ACA literally rescued people who were sick, suffering and even dying
under the old system. And Republicans blame the ACA because it finally
enabled these people to get desperately needed help. Shameful!
15
Of course this insanity is only the latest volley from the Republican Party's rightest wong in their ideological war against the American people. In what state of denial does it make sense to these people to drive Americans to paupery because of illness? Can they not grasp that taxpayers will have to pick up the tab when uninsured people get catastrophically ill and impoverished? These ideologues are neither intelligent nor faithful Christians, though I expect they fancy themselves both.
10
how can we have the largest economy in the world and such a horrible health care system?! how can so many of us pay 30 % of our hard earned income in the form of taxes, only to drive to work each day on roads that are pitted and covered in potholes?! our infrastructure is crumbling, our citizens can't afford to get sick, yet the politicians who created and manage this mess all live in $300k homes, drive to work in brand new Mercedes and BMWs and have free health care where everything is covered for them and their families... must be nice
17
Because you spend more on defence than the other eight closest countries to you combined.
1
Nice? It is INSANE. In order for it to be NICE, it has to be nice for EVERYONE. Because only these corrupt gangsters get all the goodies...it is not a democracy, but an aristocracy. They have created themselves as an aristocratic class against the rest of us. Trouble is that they are about as aristocratic as head lice.
6
The Far Right knows how to pander to its base. Dangle lower premiums in front of them and leave the states to pick up the pieces when people who where healthy become sick and resort to the free care pool. The GOP plans are consistently devoid of Christian values. At least they're separating Church from State.
11
Nothing is safe for US citizens with Moscow Donnie,
Paul Ryan , and Mitch McConnell in charge - especially the Supreme Court and any hope
of restoring justice for the middle class and
working poor. Gorsuch is a total stooge for
the Koch brothers.
Paul Ryan , and Mitch McConnell in charge - especially the Supreme Court and any hope
of restoring justice for the middle class and
working poor. Gorsuch is a total stooge for
the Koch brothers.
15
Being from one of the most corrupt and grossly mismanaged states in the union, I'll impart something my father told me when I was a kid. That all politicians are crooked and the smart ones know to throw their constituency a few bones. The difference between Clinton and Trump is that while both have dubious pasts, at least Clinton would have been smart enough to throw us a few bones.
So far, I don't see any bones coming our way via this administration. And you know the old saying, it's never good to push people who have nothing to lose because, well, with regard to their response, of course, they've got nothing to lose. Midterms coming up!
So far, I don't see any bones coming our way via this administration. And you know the old saying, it's never good to push people who have nothing to lose because, well, with regard to their response, of course, they've got nothing to lose. Midterms coming up!
10
DNCChair Tom Perez was absolutely correct when he lambasted the GOP leadership for being heartless. What kind of insurance plan denies the sick and the poor essential treatment? By comparison Louis and Marie seem compassionate.
8
At what point do we finally raise our pitchforks and storm the Capitol.
What church do these guys belong to when they unanimously vote that they receive 100% free health insurance with no deductibles for life and offer the People who elected them into office the crummiest garbage healthcare available in the world?!
What church do these guys belong to when they unanimously vote that they receive 100% free health insurance with no deductibles for life and offer the People who elected them into office the crummiest garbage healthcare available in the world?!
10
Ironically Rep. Chris Collins is out pleading for the Community rating to remain. My two ignorant siblings who voted for Trump live in his district. My sister is on Obamacare and weighs at least 400 lbs at 55. Her husband is Diabetic and 57. My brother who is 54 has rotten teeth, smokes and is close to 300 lbs.
My sister had my mother write notes in high school so she did not have to take PE every week. These are typical Collins voters!
My sister had my mother write notes in high school so she did not have to take PE every week. These are typical Collins voters!
4
Free market death panels are OK. Just as long as we avoid those liberal federally mandated death panels.
6
Do these reactionary Republicans believe their own extended families will always have the favor of the health insurance gods? Job loss, disability, a parent's or spouse's death, divorce -- they often happen to people with little or no warning. Even upper middle class people. What then?
7
The Freedom Circus is a more appropriate title. Everyday
I think, you just can't make this stuff up, it's so outside the realm of rational thinking. Not even three months into the new administration.
If you get the government you deserve, which is a statement used by many, there's something terribly awry in America.
I think, you just can't make this stuff up, it's so outside the realm of rational thinking. Not even three months into the new administration.
If you get the government you deserve, which is a statement used by many, there's something terribly awry in America.
5
"Clean bill of health"!!! How casually this is tossed out, as if people have gone out to "purchase" their illness. The NYT just recently reported a study which showed that many cancer occurrences are the result of completely random cell mutations. We must seek a new language that does not inherently demonize those in need of support.
8
Why buy health insurance under this proposal at all if you're not independently wealthy? It will be much cheaper to take a flight to India when you develop cancer and get treated there while staying in a nice hotel. You can even bring a family member or friend with you for the duration and arrange for follow-ups as needed - flying to India will still be cheaper than doing it in the US... And for broken legs and such we go to the emergency room. Of course what we really need is single payer, which has been proven to have better health outcomes at about two thirds of the cost in the USA, in the countries that have it.
10
Freedom Caucus health care amounts to the freedom to choose which tree to crawl under and die. To represent that the markets would improve and everyone would have low cost choices is callousness by those that never have to worry for their coverage. I'd like to think it's ignorance and not evil as the reason Mark Meadows promotes these plans for his fellow Americans.
5
Ignorance or evil? There are just two possibilities.
1. Evil & Ignorant
2. Evil.
1. Evil & Ignorant
2. Evil.
1
These people need to be voted OUT. None of them are working for us the people. They are all bought and sold! Ridiculous.
11
Freedom Caucus, freedom from what? They don't like paying taxes and they are the kind of folks who walk by people in need. There is no surprise, they're all white men who obtained money from the backs of hard working people. Trumpsters listen up, you have been scammed.
16
We are so worried about terrorists that might sneak into this country and cause havoc. I submit we have our own terrorists right here--they call themselves Republicans.
25
If Republicans had any decency these proposals would be called The Public Be Damned, not Health Care proposals.
11
I hope every single person in Congress who backs this variant of the bill ends up with a child or relative they love with a disease that requires significant expensive care. Does that sound harsh? Maybe it is. But at this point I think only very harsh lessons have any shot at teaching these people empathy.
What a disgrace.
What a disgrace.
14
If President Obama had pushed for universal single payer coverage for all, he could have settled for what Obamacare really was, a conservative idea as a compromise. But because the Republicans had already demonized him as a bomb-throwing radical secret agent, they had to refuse their own plan to show their ideological purity. Now in power the Republicans have nowhere to go except provide less coverage for fewer people. This is what happens when you get caught up in your own mis-information.
9
Single-payer health plan would not have passed in 2010. Too many blue-dog Democratic.
2
Wake up America. The politicians are on a campaign to kill us, one way or another.
We must demand that all politicians pay for their own medical & abide by the same rules as those of us who actually vote. Then let's see what they deem as acceptable.
We must demand that all politicians pay for their own medical & abide by the same rules as those of us who actually vote. Then let's see what they deem as acceptable.
16
Meadows and his ilk should be put to pasture. Better yet it being springtime on an ice floe.
7
Yes! Yes! The new GOP plan: a used car, without an engine or wheels but it still has a steering wheel!
14
GOP has removed
safety out of the workplace,
equality out of the paycheck
rights out of voting
privacy out of our life
care out of our health.
safety out of the workplace,
equality out of the paycheck
rights out of voting
privacy out of our life
care out of our health.
28
The "Freedom Caucus" motivation is clear. Healthcare insurance for maximum profitability, and minimal care. What's the point of that?
9
Just another way to insure that that tax cut for the wealthy gets passed. Instead of throwing 24 million people off the insurance roles, just eliminate coverage for pre-existing conditions. The people who need insurance the most won't be able to get it, so they'll drop out, and the resultant "savings" will be passed on to Trump's billionaire friends while many of those same people will literally die for lack of coverage.
There is evil abroad in the land.
There is evil abroad in the land.
30
Why can't we have Medicare look after everybody that wants to join? I have never heard anyone complain about Medicare. The answer can only be that both parties through political donations (Bribes) are on the take. How do we get the corruption out of our Political system?
7
"Speaking on "State of the Union" Sunday, [Sen. Bernie] Sanders told CNN's Dana Bash that he intends to introduce legislation outlining a "Medicare-for-all, single-payer" health care plan -- and he will reach out to President Donald Trump to help advance it."
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/27/politics/bernie-sanders-single-payer-healt...
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/27/politics/bernie-sanders-single-payer-healt...
5
Make it illegal for any politician to get a kick back, bribe, or pay off from any industry or corporate entity. NO LOBBYING! (Or you can lobby, but no money may change hands. Sure. That'll be the day!)
You think the politicians, especially the republicans, want to pass a law like that?
These politicians are getting richer than Midas from this kind of graft and corruption.
It may KILL the rest of us, but that is not their concern. They care less about us than they do about a gnat.
You think the politicians, especially the republicans, want to pass a law like that?
These politicians are getting richer than Midas from this kind of graft and corruption.
It may KILL the rest of us, but that is not their concern. They care less about us than they do about a gnat.
2
HR 626, Expanded and Improved Medicare for All was introduced in 2015 but hasn't appeared to have gone anywhere. There was a national call-in day to support it in January. I guess if Bernie gets behind a bill, it might get more attention, but he didn't invent it.
2
More Revenge and Destroy politics by Republicans.
6
Republicans are basically like a hypothetical public bus system that doesn't make any stops and only exists to line the pockets of the drivers.
4
I simply do not understand why anyone would think that kicking someone when they are down (i.e. charging sick people more) is a good way to approach this. It may not be me today, but it could easily be me one day. We are a very wealthy nation, can't we look out for each other at least this much? Health care just cannot be treated like a commodity in the same way that cars and houses might be, not if all human life is truly valued.
10
Sorry, but republicans believe that if you don't make a lot of money in life, your life is worthless. It is their religion. They do not want to help you, they have theirs, and you are on your own, bucko.
8
It should be obvious by now that the GOP is constitutionally incapable of creating a humane workable medical insurance system. If they don't like Obamacare, there is only one alternative: a single-payer system.
17
How about members of congress get the same healthcare they are proposing for the rest of us?
15
I keep seeing this come up. I saw a Congressman on TV say, they are required to pick their plans out of the DC Obamacare exchanges.
But MOST of them are very wealthy, and can afford the most excellent plans. And part of the costs of their insurance are subsidized by we, the taxpayers. The problem with health insurance is not when someone is very wealthy; they can then afford whatever Cadillac plan they want/need for themselves and their families. It is when someone is poor, or doesn't make a huge income.
3
What a wonderful idea -- "health insurance" that will be cheaper because it is actually totally worthless -- just like the Republican politicians who endlessly dream up these scams.
15
I have only one question: who are the constituents of the freedom party that back these policies?
11
These so-called "Freedom" Caucus GOPs should be forced to cancel their lifetime health insurance policies, paid for by we the people, and thus "have access" to their own Trumpcare policies, which would be the only policies available to them and all their family members for all eternity. What pre-existing conditions do these middle aged over-indulged fat cats have, one wonders?
Please explain to me how this proposed health plan is better than what exist now? Should one take any pride in the ability to stump on the sick, the poor and the unfortunate? Not only will this push our country backward, it will manage to take the humanity out of medicine.
5
It was only a matter of time before Republicans landed on this approach. They only had three options, namely a fixed up ACA, single payer, or insurance companies run amok, and there was no way they were going to choose one of the first two. The fact that this was totally predictable does not make it any less totally despicable.
14
"If living were a thing that money could buy,
well the rich would live and the poor would die."
"All my troubles, Lord, soon be STARTING!"
well the rich would live and the poor would die."
"All my troubles, Lord, soon be STARTING!"
6
Health insurance policy that does not cover us when we are seriously sick, and does not cover preventive care that may catch illness at the beginning, what is the point?
If men do not want maternity care, women should be allowed to opt out of Viagra coverage. If pre-existing conditions such as arthritis and basically any chronic conditions, what is left to cover? Such policy can be cheaper, but what really is the point?
These Republicans are imbeciles who are good only to help health insurance companies commit legal fraud.
If men do not want maternity care, women should be allowed to opt out of Viagra coverage. If pre-existing conditions such as arthritis and basically any chronic conditions, what is left to cover? Such policy can be cheaper, but what really is the point?
These Republicans are imbeciles who are good only to help health insurance companies commit legal fraud.
11
Why do Republicans keep trying to predict what insurance company executives and actuaries will do in response to a law? They keep trying to "strengthen the market," foster "competition" and "free" companies to market cheaper plans that "meet the needs" of everyone. But the insurance companies will do what they want to do to maximize their profits. They know their business better than any politician, right? I will not listen to any of the Republicans' promises that are based on second-guessing what "the market" will do until they sign a binding contract with Aetna, UnitedHealth, Kaiser, Blue Cross and all the other companies to deliver what Republicans promise. There will not be "better coverage at lower cost for all" as candidate Trump promised as long as private insurers are in the middle of our healthcare system.
10
The Freedom Caucus is really the Calhoun Caucus: This Constitution of the Mind that they refer to, in which power is devolved to the states, is not the US Constitution, but rather the Confederate States of America one. The CSA Constitution created a weak federal government for the Confederacy, just powerful enough to serve the interests of the plantation aristocracy, and no one else. It is this CSA Constitution, and its corresponding vision of America, which they really believe in.
38
Basically, back to pre-Obamacare days, plus healthy/wealthy people get a tax credit. Whaaat????
28
Giving rich people more money doesn't seem to help Americans have affordable healthcare.
"An insurance market that did not include cancer care — or even any cancer patients — would be one where premiums for the remaining customers were much lower. The result might be a market that is much more affordable for people with a clean bill of health. But it would become largely inaccessible to anyone who really needs help paying for medical care." And, of course, we all know that at any given point in time insurance companies can all be reassured that those who have a "clean bill of health" and are cancer-free who are buying their cheaper policies WILL NEVER develop cancer! Boy, I sure wish they would do this because if I can buy a policy that will never cover chemotherapy for cancer because I have a clean bill of health NOW, that's a pretty good guarantee that I will NEVER develop cancer......right?
25
Doesn't everybody have a pre-existing condition? Why punish people for being human?
4
I think politicians should be forbidden to use the word "freedom" in caucus names, proposed bills, slogans, speeches. While we're at it, let's add "the American people" to the list.
As in "the American people" want "freedom" to choose and buy their health plans.
As in "the American people" want "freedom" to choose and buy their health plans.
8
There is another addition to that list:the "freedom" to suffer and die.
1
This kind of care is popular with insurance companies...collect premiums from people who do not file claims.
36
Exactly. The goal as of insurance companies (whether they sell health, home, car or some other type of insurance,) is to make a profit. They can do that by doing what this commentator says, collect premiums and pay as few claims as possible. Even with the ACA, how many times have we all heard stories about people having to fight to get a drug or procedure or equipment covered by their insurer. The Freedom Caucus doesn't care for their constituents as long as they themselves have health insurance as it was before the ACA.
4
Lets us be clear about the issues we face. Democrats and many other Americans believe that health care is a right of American citizenship. For them, the issue is how to best fund this care, not whether it should be available to all. Conservative Republicans hold that your health care is a service that you fund , and if you lack the funds, you go without. This is the real position of the Freedom Caucus. But since repeal but not replacement is a politically untenable position, they are pushing for repeal and replacement with a mirage that provides almost no health care. Let the real, honest debate begin, and let the American people understand both the stark choice they face, and the consequence of this choice to many American citizens.
31
Good points. Still, we need to remember that the people likely to be hurt most are those who voted for Trump et al., and/or who still support their GOP (rightwing) Senators and Representatives. If they are paying enough attention to see the threats to their health and well-being, should they perhaps turn their anxieties, angst, and anger in that direction? If they are not paying enough attention, should we conclude they deserve what they (do not) get?
Many people who voted for Trump describe themselves as Christians. I try to be one. Jesus did not discriminate between the virtuous, the tax collector or the sinner. All, He said all were Loved by God and equal in HIs eyes. We Christians are challenged to live and act according to these teachings, to see the face of God in all people, and thus, to understand that His gifts to us are to be shared with the less fortunate. So, yes, all of those who voted for Trump deserve health care.
It is up to God to judge, not me. But how will He judge those of means who refuse to take the opportunity to share His gifts by insuring that all have the health care then need. This not only a political issue. For Christians, and I hope for everyone else, this is also a fundamental moral issue.
It is up to God to judge, not me. But how will He judge those of means who refuse to take the opportunity to share His gifts by insuring that all have the health care then need. This not only a political issue. For Christians, and I hope for everyone else, this is also a fundamental moral issue.
1
William, my position is that these inhumane conservative republican con artists, and these deranged freedom caucus sadists are criminals. I think that the law of HUMANITY deems that citizens in a CIVILIZED nation should have the government provide health care for them...just like in France, Sweden, Canada, etc. The government is supposed to take care of its citizens--not just that we have a safe infrastructure (which we do not), but that we have excellent schools, and excellent safety and protections, including health care. The purpose of the government is not for the people in power to usurp everything from the middle and lower classes to enrich themselves, which is what is going on here now. We all pay taxes, and it is the VERY RICH who seem to get out of paying a lot of taxes by all kinds of accounting tricks and loopholes, and I believe that our country can not only afford to take care of all its' citizens, but by not doing so, and instead, PAYING OFF the rich with huge tax breaks IS CRIMINAL. When the government says to the poor, the sick, and the elderly "YOU DO NOT MATTER," it is A CRIME...in my humble opinion. it may not be a crime ON THE BOOKS, but it is a crime against humanity. It is a wrong--a terrible, dreadful, horrific wrong--that must be righted. The GOP mirage that provides almost no health care should be shoved down their collective throats; these are vile, deceitful individuals who are the epitome of the definition: ROBBER BARONS.
1
This issue is a new third rail but our dim witted friends have yet to release it yet. As true believers I think some ever will. If they want to commit political suicide, I say go for it.
8
If you are poor, you do not have the right to get sick. If you get sick, you do not have the right to live. This is the Republican Party statement.
60
Kodali,
Nailed it.
Thank you for speaking out.
Nailed it.
Thank you for speaking out.
4
As a parent of a child who has survived cancer I cannot imagine how our family would be able to afford care without coverage. So many healthy years paying premiums only to be cut out of the market when we actually need it. Health care access and insurance profits are like oil and water, they don't mix.
36
One way to avoid the single-payer plan which is loathe to many as being socialist, but still provide comprehensive coverage is to let the US govt offer a plan which will compete with the private insurance industry on the open market. Remove all regulations. If industry can entice consumers with a better and cheaper product, then consumers will buy private. If the govt plan is better, they will put private market out of business. Govt plan will probably have better economy of scale and more negotiating power. Use some kind of surcharge for those who switch to govt plan when they get older or sick, or discount for buying many years worth when young, etc. I.e., if you join while you're young, you get great rates your whole life, perhaps choice of hospitals, etc. But if you bargain hunt when young, and join govt later, then you must go to govt clinics, where there may be 10 patients in your room, or be located far from your home, etc.
10
A nice analysis of some alternatives. I worry, however, that, at least the Trump supporters (other than the REALLY wealthy who have a lot to lose) will really not understand the points or their options.. Sad, as somebody we (wish we didn't) know, might say.
I don't think your stipulations would be necessary, but this government plan is called Medicare...
1
Beyond discouraging, but such news just helps cement the impression that the HOP, and particularly the right wing as exemplified by the Freedom Caucus, are amoral, hypocritical, and interested only in making money for themselves however possible, but chiefly on the backs of the poor, the ill, and the uneducated. As their President would (not) say -- sad. One wonders how they look in the mirror in the morning, and how they square such hate and lack of mercy with their self-claimed Christianity.
12
They should call it The Affordable Death Panel.
30
The ACA is loaded with ridiculous entitlements that few people need. Most of the recipients cannot afford to use the plans they purchase.
They could afford slimmed down plans. That, in tandem with high risk pools, makes sense to try.
They could afford slimmed down plans. That, in tandem with high risk pools, makes sense to try.
1
No. We are one nation, not a bunch of small pools. We should all help each other.
4
Since when is choosing to live an entitlement?
4
To the republicans choosing to live is an entitlement if you are single and make less than $200,000/year, or married, and make less than $250,000/year.
1
I guess with all the automation, driverless cars, online stores , robots and AI needing no health plans..something has to be done with all these low skilled unemployable people. That is where this is going. Worry about automation stop driverless cars...and this thinking goes away...
7
I am a Type I Diabetic and if mandatory coverage for those with pre-existing conditions is struck down I will be dead about 10 days to 2 weeks after my last insulin shot. There is no way I could pay for 2 types of insulin, test strips, needles, and other prescriptions at their current retail prices. Talk about a Republican Death Panel for infants, children, adults and elderly with serious chronic diseases. Barbaric.
79
Likewise. Also a Type I Diabetic, I am an independent consultant so I lack access to healthcare through an employer. In an age where more and more people are entering the "gig" economy, it seems very short-sighted for the freedom caucus to be taking steps to limit the individual market--especially if job creation is important!
4
Margaret,
Exactly. Thank you for speaking out. Millions of us have serious, chronic diseases requiring daily medications. You're not alone.
Exactly. Thank you for speaking out. Millions of us have serious, chronic diseases requiring daily medications. You're not alone.
1
This made me cry. As an insulin dependent diabetic I pay out of pocket less than $20 a year for all the supplies, including two types of insulin.
I cringe when I hear your president and politicians describe themselves as leaders of the free world. You are right, they are barbarians and we do not want to emulate them.
I cringe when I hear your president and politicians describe themselves as leaders of the free world. You are right, they are barbarians and we do not want to emulate them.
1
More and more it appears that this country is heading towards oligarchy. Democracy is just a buzzword with no real meaning. The rich and powerful want to have everything will use whatever means possible - voter suppression, spreading lies and fear, gutting the EPA, destroying public schools and now healthcare. I am not sure when/where this will stop. By gutting the EPA, the Republicans are allowing more environmental pollution which will cause a lot of diseases (will be classified as pre-existing conditions) and will not be covered by any of these nasty healthcare proposals. I hope that these Republicans remember that "what goes around comes around".
27
The Republicans are so heartless and greedy, it wouldn't surprise me if they start denying Medicare to any elderly people who have pre-existing conditions. Oops, I better not give them any ideas.
40
The GOP is fundamentally straitjacketed in their ability to design a universal healthcare plan. They will not spend the money or involve the government in its operation. Healthcare becomes a private matter with the GOP reducing or eliminating regulatory controls that the insurance companies do not like. There goes the ability to buy insurance reasonably to cover existing conditions. We will be stepping back in time and we will have millions of un-insurable people. The GOP is an activist political entity only for capitalism, tax cuts, deregulation of businesses and the wealthy. The needs of the citizens are of no consequence.
26
The exclusion of pregnancy coverage seems like poor public policy in general. People will still have babies but they will be bankrupted (of what little they have) and hospitals will be unreimbursed. Generally most countries try to encourage reproduction eg with public schools and with public health plans. Making pregnancy coverage also has an evil, Eugenics or Racist cast as many people with slightly lower IQ or certain racial groups have lower incomes and couldn't afford pregnancy insurance and their reproduction would be discouraged. As Freedom Party might say, "Ten generations of black people is enough."
8
Why doesn't the government simply provide the needed assistance for people with pre-existing conditions and those considered high risk and leave the rest of us alone. I don't want to pay for someone else's prenatal care or monthly diabetic well checks through my insurance premiums. Aren't my taxes enough already? And besides, can we not ask for a little more from that group of people? My auto insurance is double for my teenage son as it is for me. He is considered high risk. That's the auto insurance industry. I accept it and pay it. Health insurance should be seen the same way.
1
Your son can ride a bike if you don't want to pay that.
A person that can't afford dialysis can't choose not to get it and live.
Health is not equal to the convenience of driving.
And therefore auto insurance is not analogous to health insurance.
Perhaps that can be one of Trump's first term accomplishments: making everyone understand that cars and health are different.
A person that can't afford dialysis can't choose not to get it and live.
Health is not equal to the convenience of driving.
And therefore auto insurance is not analogous to health insurance.
Perhaps that can be one of Trump's first term accomplishments: making everyone understand that cars and health are different.
10
The driving analogy is flawed because a person can choose not to drive; many people don't let their teenagers drive because of the costs, and make them wait until 18 or older. And young drivers only cost more for a short time. Drivers with bad records will lose their ability to drive, either through having their licenses revoked or through insurance refusing to cover them. Though inconvenient, not driving is not a death sentence. Driving is optional to life, health care is not.
People with pre-existing conditions were often born with them and will struggle with needing more health care for their entire lives as a matter of survival. People who complain that their insurance premiums are higher because people with pre-existing conditions are in the same pool are going to complain about their taxes. It's an attitude that sounds a bit like eugenics.
People with pre-existing conditions were often born with them and will struggle with needing more health care for their entire lives as a matter of survival. People who complain that their insurance premiums are higher because people with pre-existing conditions are in the same pool are going to complain about their taxes. It's an attitude that sounds a bit like eugenics.
16
Because illnesses like cancer strike randomly. Relatives of mine who watched their weight, never smoked or drank got cancer. Insurance is about covering possibility of getting sick.
11
So the Republicans are so obsessed with low government regulation and intervention in anything, including health care, that they're willing to let people die. This obsession with ideology of the free market leading to the greater good is delusional. And the refusal to draw on how other advanced countries care for their sick is baffling, but stereotypical of US insularity.
41
Let's be honest: the GOP is only interested in a healthcare bill as camouflage for tax cuts for the wealthy--to allow greater cuts for the wealthy when they get to tax reform--excuse me, tax cuts.
Trumpcare can be guaranteed to provide profits for insurance companies, Price's personal investments (as he did in the Senate), wealthy tax cuts--and a healthcare plan with little health care included.
Remember: The GOP did not pass Trumpcare because it was not harsh enough for the Freedom Caucus wing--even though this bill had only a 17% approval in polling the voters.
Write your Congressmen!
Trumpcare can be guaranteed to provide profits for insurance companies, Price's personal investments (as he did in the Senate), wealthy tax cuts--and a healthcare plan with little health care included.
Remember: The GOP did not pass Trumpcare because it was not harsh enough for the Freedom Caucus wing--even though this bill had only a 17% approval in polling the voters.
Write your Congressmen!
38
The GOP exists to restrict opportunities and personal freedoms and they work hard to continue a caste system. Our middle class is the working engine that is kept in debt to the rich and the poor are a waste which need to be slowly exterminated. That's not an opinion. Just look at their health care plans. Look at the proposed budget cuts veiled in libertarian jargon. And Americans love the GOP. Perhaps worse is the Dems who have been pansies and sissies since Reagan won in 1980. The Dems have actual solutions but don't speak up. We're in a pickle.
19
Repeal Congress Healthacre Coverage Act 2017. To end the absurdity and sheer hypocrisy of what happens in the name of public policy debate, I am proposing that we, as citizens, repeal the healthcare coverage of congressmen and their families first. It is not cast in constitution that our elected officials should be entitled to lifetime of taxpayer funded health insurance.
This can be done as a ballot proposal in 2018 election in all fifty states Moveon.org should thing about starting a signature drive for this now.
This can be done as a ballot proposal in 2018 election in all fifty states Moveon.org should thing about starting a signature drive for this now.
26
And take away their pensions, all perks, subsidised car, free transportation whenever they travel oit side of gover mentioned business. Zero perks. Just a salary.
2
Hear hear. Public servants shouldn't have better healthcare insurance than the people they serve.
2
Great way to make your plan even more unpopular, guys!
16
Here's an idea: how about we test different ideas at the same time and compare costs, outcomes and satisfaction (providers, consumers, other stakeholders)?
Test the public option in states that would probably support it, for example. Simultanesously, test a watered down, less restrictive ACA type program where people aren't required to buy, where there are fewer mandated benefits, more freedom to underwrite risk, etc..... At this point, we're stuck in a standoff.
Test the public option in states that would probably support it, for example. Simultanesously, test a watered down, less restrictive ACA type program where people aren't required to buy, where there are fewer mandated benefits, more freedom to underwrite risk, etc..... At this point, we're stuck in a standoff.
6
This has already been done with many types of systems throughout the world.
2
If i was in charge of the democratic party, i would be buying ads in Ohio, Florida, Wisconsin, all the swing states, and i would detail what will happen if these evil, evil men get their way. people should know what the elite is planning to do to them. Trump lied to get elected, but all the dems have to do to reverse all the bad is let the public know the truth.
34
Right on! The Democrats need to let the people know ( OVER AND OVER AGAIN) what they will lose if the Republicans get their way on healthcare reform. The Democrats need to repeatedly remind people that, if he would have had the votes last month, Trump was more than willing to sign into law healthcare legislation that would have denied many people essential health coverage! Not exactly what he campaigned on........
2
Wow! Trump and Ryan are planning a health care system based on denying coverage to those who need it most.
43
After all sick people cost more.
1
You expected something else. They have had 15+ months to prove that is exactly what they want to do.
2
As a retired Alaskan doctor (MD) I wonder who is going to give free medical care to to the sick uninsured? Are we going to let them die in the street? In my 40 years of Alaska practice about 20% of what I did was paid for by moose sausage and freezer burnt halibut. Should have saved it and given it as a political donation to the Republician congress.
44
Please let the halibut and moose sausage age in the trunk of a rental car in downtown DC for about three weeks in August before cooking it and donating it to a FREE LUNCH for the Freedom Caucas.
7
No you should be outraged as much of the country is unless of you would have been happy with chickens.
The only people more disgusting than those in the so called Freedom Caucus are the people who elected them.
34
After all republicans firmly believe dead people tell no tales but they can still be registered to vote republican.
14
I thought Trump and his Republican colleagues dodged a bullet when Ryan pulled Trumpcare from a vote. However, the Republicans obviously have a 2018 death wish. Will the Freedom Caucus also demand that young adults will not be able to stay on their parent's plan until age 26?
16
Governing very difficult. Much easier to be ideologically pure minority. Besides most of the Republicans have strong ties to business. Congress is just a stepping stone.
Let's rename the Freedom Caucus. How about Rich Men of the Victorian Age.
7
Exactly, Bruce! Trump is cutting funding for g that goes to actually help people, while increasing funding to our bloated Military, including nuclear weapons. The people he has surrounded himself with will profit from wars which will cost the rest of us our children who die in war, our future families who live with those who do not die but are scarred by war, the tax dollars that we wanted to go to health care and education, and so on. My Vietnam Vet husband commented when we saw the ghastly streaming of the assault on Baghdad, They are completely destroying infrastructure that only Haliburton could fix. This is what they do.
Back to healthcare, only a single payor government program can bring down the cost of healthcare. Why do we allow these pigs at the trough (Insurance companies and their wealthy owners) to insert themselves into our lives? Why should they be able to take such a large part of our income? So they can donate millions to the Republicans and keep them in power and thus keep inserting their profits on our lives.
Back to healthcare, only a single payor government program can bring down the cost of healthcare. Why do we allow these pigs at the trough (Insurance companies and their wealthy owners) to insert themselves into our lives? Why should they be able to take such a large part of our income? So they can donate millions to the Republicans and keep them in power and thus keep inserting their profits on our lives.
1
Always keep in mind that the Trump lovers hate Obamacare, but think the ACA is just fine. How do you deal with this kind of mentality? Speak very slow and use very simple words? Maybe draw some stick figures?
42
I am baffled as to why this "Great Nation" cannot provide health care for all its citizens. If we are going to make America Great again we need to start by providing health care to all its citizens. That is what will make us great
24
Unfortunately the majority of your populace are either gullible or greedy. Your country's obsession with free market forces and low government regulation guarantee immense suffering and modern enslavement for most. The rest of the world shakes their heads in disbelief at the state of the USA. So lost.
13
Cut me a break.
It's difficult to understand why the many Trump supporters dependent on subsidized health care voted for him in the first place. But if the GOP removes the requirement for coverage of pre-existing conditions, it would be absolute armageddon for them at the next voting cycle.
21
Armageddon for these ill-informed or otherwise biased, bigoted voters, or Armageddon for the GOP? Both might be fervently wished for, but as to the former, maybe we could show them some mercy, even if they have no intention of showing to anybody else??!!
1
Throughout the health care debate, the more conservative Republican politicians (unfortunately almost all these days) have one economic concern: Money!: Their money, their wealthy supporters and donors, and laws that allow them to hoard and increase their wealth. Why should a male have to pay for women's health issues that he will never suffer: pregnancy, birth control, etc? Why should a healthy person be saddled with helping to pay for someone with cancer or some other life-threatening illness? Why should I have to pay more for insurance when I don't need it?? For one thing, we're all part of a community. More selfishly, no currently healthy person will be healthy forever. The entire point of insurance is to pay into a system that can protect everybody's financial well-being in the event of an unforeseen (or currently known) medical issue.
The sad fact is that the entire Republican political approach to government is based on selfishness and a lack of empathy for others.
The sad fact is that the entire Republican political approach to government is based on selfishness and a lack of empathy for others.
39
You are exactly right---Nothing but selfishness and pure greed. I wonder why they get elected. They do not anything for the people who need help.
4
Unfortunately, as a woman, I can guarantee that exams like the prostate exam will be covered--tho nothing for women.
The Republicans seem absolutely determined to commit political suicide, don't they? Good. So great to see them exposing their war on the "little people" in a way even the "little people" will not be able to ignore, especially when their breast cancer makes them uninsurable again, as it did before Obamacare.
29
ConDon promised "terrific" healthcare for ALL. Cheaper with better coverage. I guess it's "difficult". Very difficult when all you care about is wealth people.
1
Suicide?...This is the platform that won them the election!
1
Exactly what the greedy Wall Street Insurance companies want.....the way things were before Obama stepped up and failed to by not pushing for Medicare for all when he had a majority in congress.
Trump also plans to change personal bankruptcy laws so people lose everything in the middle class if you get sick.
Trump and Paul Ryan creating a fascist state where the billionaires have all the money and power!
Trump also plans to change personal bankruptcy laws so people lose everything in the middle class if you get sick.
Trump and Paul Ryan creating a fascist state where the billionaires have all the money and power!
23
Personal bankruptcy. Right. And this from a guy who filed chapter 11 bankruptcies 6 times!
Don't forget that we have ultimate fascists -- e.g., Steve Bannon -- already in the White House and providing guidance on how to get to such an oligarchic, greedy, and amoral government. It's hardly just Trump (a puppet?) or Ryan, although they clearly can be held accountable for their immoral stances.
1
I would like to bring something to the attention of Trump and the Republicans. I lost my job when the corporation I worked for moved it overseas. Times are tough financially and I need a car to try and find work and to pick up the odd gig now and then. Unfortunately in order for me to legally drive my car, I am forced to purchase automobile insurance, which I can no longer afford. It is a total outrage and completely un-American to be forced to purchase something I don't need. I am a perfectly good driver and have never been in an accident. Please sign an Executive Order to eliminate the requirement for purchasing auto insurance in order to have a driver's license.
15
And if run into someone else or get sick who is going to pay for that?
And watching this so called president and this Conservative controlled Congress just 3% of those who elected these guys wouldn't vote for them again.
97% of the people who put these legislators and this so called president, self announced "very smart guy" in office would put them in office again to continue to abuse U.S. society pretty much in the same way Trump abused women over the years because he could.
“When you’re a star they let you do it,” “You can do anything.”
When you're president of the United States you can do anything, if you happen to be an unscrupulous president with an unscrupulous Congress.
97% of the people who put these legislators and this so called president, self announced "very smart guy" in office would put them in office again to continue to abuse U.S. society pretty much in the same way Trump abused women over the years because he could.
“When you’re a star they let you do it,” “You can do anything.”
When you're president of the United States you can do anything, if you happen to be an unscrupulous president with an unscrupulous Congress.
15
The the problem is easily solved ..
Single payer for all .
Just copy the Canadian system .
Canadians are healthier and have a longer life expectancy.
Canadians wouldn't change their system for the American CHAOS !!!
Single payer for all .
Just copy the Canadian system .
Canadians are healthier and have a longer life expectancy.
Canadians wouldn't change their system for the American CHAOS !!!
26
Except of course that Canadians are not as utterly consumed with making money as are the Trump family and minions.
2
...or Australia, or New Zealand, or Britain, Germany, France , Sweden, etc etc. All other advanced nations can figure it out. But your government is obsessed with allowing .arket forces to solve all.
2
Richest country in the world, and yet we can't do what all other civilized nations in the world are doing where their Governments' actually strive to help their citizens by leveraging their economies of scale to lower health care costs and make it available to all citizens. Here, the GOP believes the Government's role is to be privatized except to maintain control over the behavior of pregnant woman, the choice of bathrooms people use, and to keep people from getting high on weed because God forbid people would want any form of escape from the gaping, light-sucking black hole that is the GOP and the Trump Administration.
Basically, if you don't have a job, or you aren't Caucasian and don't have a good paying job, then you don't deserve the help of your own Government.
This is pure evil, plain and simple.
Basically, if you don't have a job, or you aren't Caucasian and don't have a good paying job, then you don't deserve the help of your own Government.
This is pure evil, plain and simple.
23
Reading this article and the accompanying comments of folks with friends and relatives who would be impoverished and die as a result of these policies brought to mind a horrifying item I remember seeing last fall on the Huffington Post. It contained a reference to a Frontline documentary “The Choice,” which apparently aired on PBS last fall and revealed that DJT agrees with "the dangerous and abusive theory of eugenics." People, I can only conclude that this is what the Republican "health" proposals are attempting to bring to fruition.
8
Certainly, their health care proposal will kill poor people. Their bare bones policy paid for with tiny tax credits, along with new restrictions on Medicaid, would force the poor to run to the emergency room.There, they would be stabilised and sent home. That brings us back 40 years.
6
Probably correct, but one thing missing: The return to the time before the poor and sick get what care they can from hospital ERs will raise costs for everybody. What we maybe need to worry about is a change in the longstanding law that requires at least some hospitals never to turn away patients from their ERs. If the GOP repeals THAT law, just think of the numbers of people who will die on the steps of hospitals around the country!
They can't seem to govern, but they excel at digging themselves into a deeper hole. November 2018 can't come soon enough.
14
Taking a page from Trump's outdated and sad playbook for deal-making, they start with an absolutely nutty opening bid for the next round of negotiations. It's time to laugh in their faces and tear up this wacko proposition. We cannot and should not even entertain this concept.
7
So how do you buy insurance across state lines then? Get your PO box in states that mandate coverage or will insurers stop covering those states. Another example of lawyers trying to legislate health care.
5
What moral universe have we entered?
25
The one where money doesn't grow on trees.
1
If you ever get sick, you'd better hope it grows on trees. Otherwise, you lose your house, your job, your retirement savings, you kids' education.
Where money only grows on the trees of the top 1% and they say, "let them eat cake":(
The only "improvements" are to make the existing Trumpcare bill even more draconian than it was a couple of weeks ago. They think this is progress?
16
Your Constitution gives you both the right and the imperative to overthrow a tyrannical government that does not act in the best interest of the people.
Why don't you use that power? It does not have to be violent. Gandhi and Corey Aquino did it. The collective 'No'.
If you let them do this to you you will have no liberty, you will not be able to pursue happiness and you will lose your Constitutional right to life itself.
Why don't you use that power? It does not have to be violent. Gandhi and Corey Aquino did it. The collective 'No'.
If you let them do this to you you will have no liberty, you will not be able to pursue happiness and you will lose your Constitutional right to life itself.
23
As an Aussie living in America, I thank you for your comment, Amy. I'm about ready to come home.
8
Me 2
1
How is yanking cancer patients, including children, off their chemotherapy NOT a death panel, Republicans?
How is any of this NOT a death panel, for that matter?
I really want to know.
How is any of this NOT a death panel, for that matter?
I really want to know.
28
Here is the difference between the two parties:
In an interview a few weeks ago, former House leader Tom DeLay said health care was not a right, but a responsibility. In another interview, DNC Chair Tom Perez said health care was a right, not a privilege. Social Darwinism at its best folks. Staying away from the Republicans is the healthiest thing we can do.
In an interview a few weeks ago, former House leader Tom DeLay said health care was not a right, but a responsibility. In another interview, DNC Chair Tom Perez said health care was a right, not a privilege. Social Darwinism at its best folks. Staying away from the Republicans is the healthiest thing we can do.
13
Easy for the Freedom Caucus....they are covered by a gold-standard policy with complete pre-existing care coverage.
6
And they get these perks for doing absolutely nothing. Showing up a couple of days a week and reflexively voting "no" are actions a chimpanzee could easily perform in their spare time, though they would at least be intelligent enough to wonder why.
3
Which they will lose when they get rid of the ACA, they have to buy insurance. The only difference is that, they can afford it.
1
Most Trump supporters (except the wealthy) and, for that matter, most Americans don't understand what it is that we provide members of Senate and House that so ENORMOUSLY exceeds what any of us could possibly afford! Could we somehow agree to force them to give up those perks and take what's available to the rest of us??!! Might bring them to their senses (if not to their knees).
1
Paul Ryan calls this a "conceptual stage" - tell that to someone hanging on to the Affordable Care Act for dear life - tell a Republican who voted for Trump!
Ryan and his pals have a very bizarre idea of conception! In this case, about other people's lives in accordance with healthcare products and premiums....or their deaths. Shame, shame, shame.
Forget your stupid vacation, Paul. It's not worth giving innocent people the death sentence. I'm a nurse, I know.
Ryan and his pals have a very bizarre idea of conception! In this case, about other people's lives in accordance with healthcare products and premiums....or their deaths. Shame, shame, shame.
Forget your stupid vacation, Paul. It's not worth giving innocent people the death sentence. I'm a nurse, I know.
11
Unbelievable. They did not learn anything. Why do they not realize that there is no package that pleases both the Freedom Caucus and the moderates and does not result in political suicide? It amazes me that they want to do this again and the measure will be defeated again. But I guess Trump did that with the travel ban too. He must be the worst strategist and negotiator known to man. The American people are beginning to learn why he filed for bankruptcy so many times...
11
When Trump said Obamacare will "explode", what he meant is that he and his evil minions in Congress are going to blow it up.
9
This will get the freedom caucus on board. And make a large portion of the existing supporters away. So in the end this is a futile exercise.
5
What is wrong with these people? Why is it so hard for them to embrace the idea that people need access to affordable health care? Why would anyone with a conscience advocate making it harder for sick people to get care?
10
It's a shock to see that the GOP hates the poor and works hard to keep the middle class enslaved in debt. They talk about freedom and liberty but it's lies.
2
Mr. Meadows seems to exhibit a new kind of morality I'm not familiar with; treating the sick, disabled and poor as practitioners of evil not worthy of compassion.
9
but is this retains medicaid and CSR, isn't it a tax on states tht optin for new provisions ?
in otherwords, poor red states will subsidize rich blue states, just as they do now by not taking expanded medicaid ?
in otherwords, poor red states will subsidize rich blue states, just as they do now by not taking expanded medicaid ?
1
Actually it is the rich liberal blue states that prop up the poor red states right now. And this proposal will do nothing to change that. Every red state gets back 2-3 $ for each tax $ sent to the federal government and every blue state gets back a minus of about 80 cents for each dollar sent. That is how the welfare state works, the liberals support the conservative moochers
6
A problem with this new plan, which was a problem for the old plan, is that it lacks the data necessary to support the claims that it will work. If anything, existent data shows just the opposite.
What it does show is ideology bundled to look like health reform, when really it's just a tax cut for the billionaire class. Why else would Republicans be working so hard to make it favorable to insurance companies by rescinding pre-existing condition clause in the ACA?
Indeed, without protection for pre-existing conditions, what is the point of having insurance?
Too, this is occurring in the absence of a jobs bill, whereby more people could have employer-based insurance, and in the presence of de-regulation of the environment, which is likely to add health problems.
Again, it's a tax cut for the wealthy, and further proof that the plight of the Rust Belt worker isn't a priority of the wealthy, despite Republicans' claims to the contrary back in November. Why do Trump's supporters struggle to grasp these two undeniable facts?
What it does show is ideology bundled to look like health reform, when really it's just a tax cut for the billionaire class. Why else would Republicans be working so hard to make it favorable to insurance companies by rescinding pre-existing condition clause in the ACA?
Indeed, without protection for pre-existing conditions, what is the point of having insurance?
Too, this is occurring in the absence of a jobs bill, whereby more people could have employer-based insurance, and in the presence of de-regulation of the environment, which is likely to add health problems.
Again, it's a tax cut for the wealthy, and further proof that the plight of the Rust Belt worker isn't a priority of the wealthy, despite Republicans' claims to the contrary back in November. Why do Trump's supporters struggle to grasp these two undeniable facts?
10
"And they could decide to do away with a rule that requires insurance companies to charge the same price to everyone who is the same age, a provision called community rating. "
What "bag of worms" could this alone open up.
Let's bargain away the lives of human beings like R&D does about features on a new care.
These new republicans are the bottom of the barrel when it comes to decency. These people turn my stomach.
How can any decent human being vote for people like these?
What "bag of worms" could this alone open up.
Let's bargain away the lives of human beings like R&D does about features on a new care.
These new republicans are the bottom of the barrel when it comes to decency. These people turn my stomach.
How can any decent human being vote for people like these?
8
There is obscene money to be made and they can smell it from
there .Where ever there is .
there .Where ever there is .
2
It hard for me to read and watch the incredible twisting and turning the Republican are going through to deny people decent health insurance coverage. What is wrong with single payer health care that we have in Canada and most Western Europe. Choose strictly single payer plan to single payer and additional supplemental plans for people who could afford and want fast access. Coverage for diagnosis and treatment of heart attacks, strokes, or trauma or urgent or emergency surgery is provided without delay and is paid for from general taxes. All patients have primary care and many have drug plans. Conservatives and Republicans objectives to protect insurance industry and avoid taxes on richest Americans at expense of poor and middle class.
12
Making pre-existing grounds for loss or denial of health insurance, will discourage people from udergoing routine checkups or seeking medical attention except in absolute emergencies, to avoid running the risk discovering a pre-existing condition.
14
Chuck, that's not a bug, it's a feature. They want us dead, if we can't be worker bees giving everything we have to them and their corporate masters, we might as well be dead. We are of NO use.
9
"The result might be a market that is much more affordable for people with a clean bill of health. But it would become largely inaccessible to anyone who really needs help paying for medical care." For all practical purposes, the GOP itself is now proposing "death panels." How ironic.
21
I think the comments that predict that Republicans will pay a price for their healthcare 'reform' are delusional. Sixty some odd million people voted for a TV game show host despite all the evidence that he is a racist, xenophobic, narcissist with shady business dealings and a pathological propensity for lying. Why does anyone think that a horrible healthcare policy will make any difference? The Republicans will remain in power as long as they keep up spouting nonsense about guns, abortion and the bible. The Country, for all intense and purposes is lost.
16
If this legislation moves forward then I will have to agree with you. But not yet.
4
They'll only 'pay a price' if the Democrats can find the nerve to step up & explain the thing loudly & clearly & honestly, with second-grade level graphics, & endless repetition. Loudly & Clearly. Promote the only policy that will improve the ACA: Medicare for All.
It barely gets mentioned, never mind explained.
There has been a vacuum in the Democratic Party, since Bill Clinton, that has allowed this insane 'conversation' to have reached the absurd point we find ourselves at today.
Given a functional opposition party, the country isn't 'lost', although I would say the human species probably is, by now, for different reasons (see Climate, Now What.).
It barely gets mentioned, never mind explained.
There has been a vacuum in the Democratic Party, since Bill Clinton, that has allowed this insane 'conversation' to have reached the absurd point we find ourselves at today.
Given a functional opposition party, the country isn't 'lost', although I would say the human species probably is, by now, for different reasons (see Climate, Now What.).
8
I, for one, will "Not go gentle into that good night, but rage, rage, rage against the dying of the light." I still refuse to believe "The Country, for all intents and purposes is lost "--the words you posted.
1
This has become typical of Republican policy UNTIL a conservative lawmaker experiences misfortune close to him or her. Witness drug addiction. Governor Christie of NJ was all "law and order" on drug addicts. He promoted "tough love" and tougher sentences for offenders UNTIL he discovered that a longtime friend had a problem. Now in addition to doing PSA's for drug treatment he's been named by Trump to head up an drug addiction task force. Guess it's different when it's someone you care about.
With that said, one just has to wonder how these God fearing people look their friends and family in the eye with some of the policies they are pushing. From the latest attack on our personal freedom via the new proposal that interned providers are free to sell our most sensitive information to tax reform that will largely benefit the wealthy to this latest bad idea of abolishing the ability to get insurance if you have a pre-existing condition.
There is only one explanation, blind hypocrisy on a level that we have not witnessed in the past. As many have said and even more have thought, if this is there proposal for health care, then their plan should reflect these changes as well.
With that said, one just has to wonder how these God fearing people look their friends and family in the eye with some of the policies they are pushing. From the latest attack on our personal freedom via the new proposal that interned providers are free to sell our most sensitive information to tax reform that will largely benefit the wealthy to this latest bad idea of abolishing the ability to get insurance if you have a pre-existing condition.
There is only one explanation, blind hypocrisy on a level that we have not witnessed in the past. As many have said and even more have thought, if this is there proposal for health care, then their plan should reflect these changes as well.
24
What do we have to do to communicate a very simple concept:
we do not want health insurance, we want affordable and universal health care.
Insurance is a business for personal and corporate profit, health care is a service for the public good
Medicare for all.....
we do not want health insurance, we want affordable and universal health care.
Insurance is a business for personal and corporate profit, health care is a service for the public good
Medicare for all.....
65
Medicare IS insurance. What's needed is a mechanism for spreading financial risk, and that mechanism is insurance. What's not needed is for the Republicans to sabotage the health insurance system so that companies can exclude sick people.
5
I agree completely. But they don't care what we want. This isn't about health care. It's about ego -- wiping out Obama's achievement -- something that proves government can actually help people -- and about giving tax cuts to the wealthy. That's all. And that's why they're not looking at all the other countries -- Japan, Singapore, Chile, Columbia, Australia, Switzerland among many others that have health care systems ranking higher than ours according to WHO in order to study and use their models of government involvement/management for health care. They simply don't care about providing universal, affordable health care to Americans.
8
This is what the Freedom Caucus considers a serious proposal? Not covering pre-existing conditions to lower premiums for the healthy...will only extend lines to the expensive care unit (emergency rooms). This proposal is a giant step backwards on coverage, quality of care and cost of care...let alone disasterous to the health care delivery system. I guess their only real goal was to lower premiums for the healthy and lower taxes for the ultra-rich. It's even worse than RyanCare if that's possible.
33
Many diseases or conditions can be effectively treated if detected in time .
Cancer , diabetes , high blood pressure / cholesterol etc.
Do these cruel GOP Freedom Caucus Neanderthals understand what their proposal to drop coverage for screening and preventive care would mean.
Have they ever seen someone die a painful death from cancer because that cancer was not detected in time but could have been with screening.
Do they even care.
End all this idiocy.
Extend Medicare to all.
Cancer , diabetes , high blood pressure / cholesterol etc.
Do these cruel GOP Freedom Caucus Neanderthals understand what their proposal to drop coverage for screening and preventive care would mean.
Have they ever seen someone die a painful death from cancer because that cancer was not detected in time but could have been with screening.
Do they even care.
End all this idiocy.
Extend Medicare to all.
58
Ever seen someone die a painful death from unnecessary treatment because screening returned a false positive ?
https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/27/overtreatment-is-taking-a-harm...
"But an epidemic of overtreatment — too many scans, too many blood tests, too many procedures — is costing the nation’s health care system at least $210 billion a year, according to the Institute of Medicine, and taking a human toll in pain, emotional suffering, severe complications and even death."
https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/27/overtreatment-is-taking-a-harm...
"But an epidemic of overtreatment — too many scans, too many blood tests, too many procedures — is costing the nation’s health care system at least $210 billion a year, according to the Institute of Medicine, and taking a human toll in pain, emotional suffering, severe complications and even death."
The article you cited is not talking about routine screening but over treatment or unnecessary repeating of tests when a patient changes doctors.
I am unaware of patients dying from a blood test for diabetes or for high cholesterol or from a simple measurement of blood pressure.
There are numerous cases of deaths from untreated diabetes and high blood pressure /cholesterol.
While there is debate at what age mammograms should begin it is established that mammograms after age 50 do save lives.
Pap tests for ovarian cancer save lives.
There are numerous other conditions that can be diagnosed from a simple blood test.
But the GOP Neanderthals just want to save money.
They do not care that screening and routine check ups save lives.
I am unaware of patients dying from a blood test for diabetes or for high cholesterol or from a simple measurement of blood pressure.
There are numerous cases of deaths from untreated diabetes and high blood pressure /cholesterol.
While there is debate at what age mammograms should begin it is established that mammograms after age 50 do save lives.
Pap tests for ovarian cancer save lives.
There are numerous other conditions that can be diagnosed from a simple blood test.
But the GOP Neanderthals just want to save money.
They do not care that screening and routine check ups save lives.
3
I believe that I a single 64 year old should be required to buy dental insurance for pediatric dependents. also maternity benefits. And if I have active cancer, I should pay the same as somebody in perfect health. That's what you want?
1
Yes.
28
Yes. Because that is how insurance works.
3
Yes.
3
Health care cannot be fixed. New doctors and nurses cannot be trained fast enough to keep up with the patient demands of an aging population. The administration, financing and management of health care services is a secondary issue in the face of these profound demographic changes.
Projections for percentage of U.S. Population aged 75 and over:
2017 6.6
2020 6.9
2030 9.5
2040 11.7
In raw numbers:
2017 21.6 Million
2020 23.2 Million
2030 34.2 Million
2040 44.3 Million
Any increase in the size of the medical labor force cannot possibly keep up with the demands brought on by this tidal wave of older people.
Hospitals are dangerous places. See a doctor only when it is absolutely necessary.
Projections for percentage of U.S. Population aged 75 and over:
2017 6.6
2020 6.9
2030 9.5
2040 11.7
In raw numbers:
2017 21.6 Million
2020 23.2 Million
2030 34.2 Million
2040 44.3 Million
Any increase in the size of the medical labor force cannot possibly keep up with the demands brought on by this tidal wave of older people.
Hospitals are dangerous places. See a doctor only when it is absolutely necessary.
4
The rest of the developed world solved this with universal health care long ago.
Preventative health care means that older people are living longer and healthier lives, even those of us with diabetes and cancer (I have diabetes and have just overcome cancer).
Oldies (and I am 73 and still running my own business) are more focussed on living well and are not condemned to lives that are nasty, brutish and cut short.
We are neither a health crisis tsunami or a burden on society.
Why on earth don't you guys just dowload all the info on Department of Health and Department of Human Services web sites and say. 'see this is how it can work and rich people still get to keep their ill gotten gains'.
Preventative health care means that older people are living longer and healthier lives, even those of us with diabetes and cancer (I have diabetes and have just overcome cancer).
Oldies (and I am 73 and still running my own business) are more focussed on living well and are not condemned to lives that are nasty, brutish and cut short.
We are neither a health crisis tsunami or a burden on society.
Why on earth don't you guys just dowload all the info on Department of Health and Department of Human Services web sites and say. 'see this is how it can work and rich people still get to keep their ill gotten gains'.
5
Donald Trump, the ultimate con man: selling insurance that doesn't insure anything.
52
Getting insurance in spite of "pre-existing conditions" may be the most important provision of the ACA
Before, people could be denied insurance for having acne treatment as a teenager. This was a transparent method insurance companies used to limit coverage. People went bankrupt and died. The Trump administration would do this at their peril. The backlash will be horrendous.
If the GOP knows what is good for it, it will run headlong away from this unwise action.
Before, people could be denied insurance for having acne treatment as a teenager. This was a transparent method insurance companies used to limit coverage. People went bankrupt and died. The Trump administration would do this at their peril. The backlash will be horrendous.
If the GOP knows what is good for it, it will run headlong away from this unwise action.
28
You guys who wanted change are getting it. As everything good about the past 8 years is dismantled, say hello to government by , for , and of the corporations.
40
If they pass this they own it and will pay the price in 2018.
23
Insurance companies do nothing to improve health care. They care only about profit.
They don't invent or perfect procedures, medications, devices, implants, tests, etc.
They are simply private companies looking for profits. Yes, they employ people in their industry, but can't we as a nation find better uses for this money and employment?
Capitalism is an imperfect system run amok and we have to control it. The best first step is to go single payer and let the insurance companies cater to the wealthy who wish for more.
They don't invent or perfect procedures, medications, devices, implants, tests, etc.
They are simply private companies looking for profits. Yes, they employ people in their industry, but can't we as a nation find better uses for this money and employment?
Capitalism is an imperfect system run amok and we have to control it. The best first step is to go single payer and let the insurance companies cater to the wealthy who wish for more.
41
The states that elect to provide affordable care and require coverage to pre-existing conditions should also be given more House seats, one or two additional senators, and more votes in the electoral college.
17
Time to get serious about moving to Canada.
18
Canada, please annex the nothern tier of U.S. states so we can have true democracy and nation that cares for its people.
3
Do it now. Before they build a wall.
5
Karen - Google "The United States of Canada" in which Canada annexes the northeast and the Pacific coast states. The remainder of the country then becomes "Jesusland".
3
Regarding 'single payer' how would it be funded? Value added tax? National sales tax? What would the % rate be?
2
Lots of different ways, but probably best through income taxes. A big challenge, of course, would be helping "no taxes" zealots to realize that, for most people, the overall costs for individuals would be much lower than their current combined premium, deductible, and out-of-pocket costs.
7
Tax. Everyone pays, everyone is covered.
This is the conversation we should be having. I do not know the answers. However, the savings from removing the middle man/insurance mafia overhead would certainly make it viable. I have no doubt that we could figure this out and make it work. We just need to remove the unethical profiteers from the equation. This is an example where capitalism is not the answer. Paul Ryan can shove his copy of Atlas Shrugged up his a$$. We need single payer.
This seem's to be the thinking of the 'Freedom Caucus'.
Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose.
Nothin' ain't worth nothin', but it's free.
- Kris Kristofferson
Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose.
Nothin' ain't worth nothin', but it's free.
- Kris Kristofferson
22
Different color lipstick meets pig, round 2.
48
Well, based on how the ban went, maybe there is some hope 45 blew his political capital wad and will turn over and pass out until impeachment proceedings begin.
Destroying all things American should not be validated or celebrated.
Destroying all things American should not be validated or celebrated.
3
Let's test this ridiculous healthcare policy out in freedom caucus districts and let's see how their constituents like it and if they vote these guys back after a few years of real freedom from all government support and funding
Let's give these voters what they voted for.
Let's give these voters what they voted for.
29
Why do Republican'ts hate this country so much as per their actions not words?!
They are never gonna learn. They don't listen, will never listen and don't care.
Guess they never heard of Marie Antoinette and let 'eat cake?!
American Spring 2017!!
They are never gonna learn. They don't listen, will never listen and don't care.
Guess they never heard of Marie Antoinette and let 'eat cake?!
American Spring 2017!!
17
Your state voted for trump. You shall not be heard to complain.
1
Wow Fred, very unfair. I bet I worked much harder on the election than you did. Not everyone in the swing states voted for Trump.
Is there any way we can repeal healthcare for all members of Congress.
I believe that as long as healthcare is a given for them they will never make it a given for all taxpayers.
I believe that as long as healthcare is a given for them they will never make it a given for all taxpayers.
41
Petition on change dot org to take away healthcare from congress and their families. They should not be getting platinum coverage paid by us when we get nothing.
3
The minute I saw that Mark Meadows and the Freedom Caucus were interested in this healthcare bill, I knew it would be bad. How do those people sleep at night? Stephen Hawing is right. Greed and stupidity will destroy us all.
20
During the bad old days before the ACA, I purchased private health insurance so that I could go to nursing school. (Insurance is generally required, because while in school you will be working around sick people during clinical rotations) I was classified by all the insurance companies as a "high-risk" because of a history of major depressive disorder with one hospitalization as a teenager...even though I was then (and am) stable. I paid a much higher rate than my peers without significant history.
The GOP bill would punish those like me who were at one time a higher risk, but are not now.
The GOP bill would punish those like me who were at one time a higher risk, but are not now.
28
That is ridiculous. Sorry you had to deal with that.
11
It's like Republicans think there won't be another election. 2018 is coming. Winter is coming. And you are going.
23
You think there will be elections in 2018?? Wanna buy a bridge?
1
Fred, if there aren't elections in 2018, then you will see people self-immolating in front of the White House. We will have an "American Spring." Do you want that?
1
Good. The adults are in charge. People with pre-existing conditions do not get "insurance." They are driving up the costs of real insurance for the rest of us. By definition one cannot insure against an event that has already happened. Hello? This in not complicated stuff. Cover them some other way. Call it welfare...whatever you want but it is not insurance.
4
It's not "events" - what if you have type 1 diabetes, an autoimmune flaw that has nothing to do with diet or lifestyle and you need insulin to survive? You'll be paying out of pocket for everything and you will be ruined financially or you will die. That's not what a civilized society does.
9
I'm okay with this....take the insurers out of it and have single payer via Medicare for pre-existing conditions. Then we need to change the law on medicare and negotiating for pharmaceuticals.
7
And what are your ideas for providing coverage and health care for people who have the misfortune to have chronic health conditions, or injuries or any kind of unforeseen health problems? Are we suppoed to rely on Gofundmeor youcaring? Religious institutions? Bankruptcy?
You and your kind have no sense of anything other than your own wellbeing.
You and your kind have no sense of anything other than your own wellbeing.
9
And just think 46 percent of the potential American voters did not care enough to vote.
I will assure you that both congress and myself have health insurance that states that we can freely change policies once a year and have absolutely no worry about any pre-existing conditions.
I will assure you that both congress and myself have health insurance that states that we can freely change policies once a year and have absolutely no worry about any pre-existing conditions.
7
Yes! They need to try to pass this so they can have another spectacular public failure in the legislature, followed by yet another huge wave of backlash! It's the only way for progress to happen. Do they realize that what they are proposing is the direct opposite of their campaign promises?
16
We just got a bill for a five hour stay at our local ER. My wife had been sent there because of low blood pressure. After numerous blood tests, ekg, sonogram and what not she was sent home. No diagnosis.
Cost: $10,000 Our part deductible, etc $700.
Sounds good right?
Last year, my brother was driving through Europe when he contracted an infection of klebsiella a gram negative bacteria. Highly resistant to antibiotics. Life threatening. He was in Spain in a small seashore village. He was immediately rushed to the regional hospital and put on a cocktail of 4 IV antibiotics. He had a total of 4 surgeries to remove, drain and monitor the spread of the infection. 5 days in the ER, 5 days in a regular private room, 4 surgeries. Of course, since he was not an EU citizen he had to pay the full amount out of pocket.
Total = $5000.
So there you are folks:
5 hours in America=$10000.
10 days in Spain = $5000
Who's got the best medical system in the world?
Where are all our premiums going?
Cost: $10,000 Our part deductible, etc $700.
Sounds good right?
Last year, my brother was driving through Europe when he contracted an infection of klebsiella a gram negative bacteria. Highly resistant to antibiotics. Life threatening. He was in Spain in a small seashore village. He was immediately rushed to the regional hospital and put on a cocktail of 4 IV antibiotics. He had a total of 4 surgeries to remove, drain and monitor the spread of the infection. 5 days in the ER, 5 days in a regular private room, 4 surgeries. Of course, since he was not an EU citizen he had to pay the full amount out of pocket.
Total = $5000.
So there you are folks:
5 hours in America=$10000.
10 days in Spain = $5000
Who's got the best medical system in the world?
Where are all our premiums going?
79
In 1993 my husband and I were vacationing in Germany. I had a cold which turned into an ear infection. When we arrived at our hotel in Bremen we consulted the hotel staff about finding a physician who spoke English. The following morning we walked to the doctor's office and within 1 hour I had seen the doctor, received a diagnosis and prescription for medication.
We paid the fee, which was the 1993 equivalent of approximately 30 U.S. dollars, We took the prescription to the nearest pharmacy and had it filled within minutes, for less than 10 U.S. dollars. Competent, efficient healthcare. But we can't have nice things in the United States of Trump.
We paid the fee, which was the 1993 equivalent of approximately 30 U.S. dollars, We took the prescription to the nearest pharmacy and had it filled within minutes, for less than 10 U.S. dollars. Competent, efficient healthcare. But we can't have nice things in the United States of Trump.
36
The weather and food is better in Spain too!
3
How much would that $5k in care have cost an uninsured person in the US, ten or 20 times as much? No, because the uninsured person would be given the minimum care to address the immediate emergency, then discharged to likely die in short order.
5
If health insurance companies are only willing to insure people in perfect health, drop them as soon as they get sick, charge unaffordable premiums and high deductables, and refuse to cover treatment of pre-existing conditions they really are of no use to anyone. That the government has to force people to purchase this product just proves how useless and overpriced it is. No other industry gets to sell such a useless and overpriced product and stay in business.
We don't need health insurance. We need health care. We need to get rid of the useless private health insurance industry and expand Medicare to cover everyone or find some other way to provide health care for everyone as all other countries do.
We should repeal the individual mandate and the employer mandate. Force the insurance companies to compete like any other business or get out of the way.
We don't need health insurance. We need health care. We need to get rid of the useless private health insurance industry and expand Medicare to cover everyone or find some other way to provide health care for everyone as all other countries do.
We should repeal the individual mandate and the employer mandate. Force the insurance companies to compete like any other business or get out of the way.
30
If this ever becomes law, the only fair thing would be if every Congressman and Senator who votes for it is required to use this plan as their only insurance for themselves, their parents, children and all other family members.
30
"Affordable health insurance for all" is easily and readily found. Every insurance company will be glad to sell "affordable" policies to any healthy person. Pre-existing conditions, and chronic conditions will also be readily accommodated with policies, so long as a flexible definition of "affordable" is used. What is becoming fundamentally clear is that 'the free market' does not work for healthcare insurance. The market incentives for insurance companies are exactly opposite those which will support medical care for insurance customers. Insurance companies have every incentive to provide coverage only for those who do not, and will not, ever actually -use- that coverage, and insurance companies have every market incentive to expel and exclude any potential healthcare consumers who actually -need- the coverage. A 'free market' will not support coverage for those who really need it. Subdividing populations into ever-smaller pools with carefully-crafted restrictions and boundaries for the pools will be the result. This is contrary to the basic concept of insurance, where shared risks across a large population mitigate the cost for those who realize the risk in any period. The only solution for healthcare insurance coverage that is both "affordable" and "for all" is a universal coverage single-payer plan, Medicare for all. This will also be more efficient, a benefit to the economy, when actual health care is the primary goal, and not insurance industry profits.
22
I am not understanding how this is different than the health insurance coverage that was available before the ACA was put into place. It's simply REPEAL, not AHCA or any other acronym you can think of.
11
The cruelty of this idea is beyond comprehension. I have a pre-existing condition. If I cannot afford health insurance, I could die. What is wrong with these people if they don't understand this?
38
They are enforcing God's will. Don't you get them yet?
8
Fred, I've seen several of your comments in this forum and all I can say is either you're a bot or frankly, you should be one. Gratuitous cruelty is what you seem programmed to do.
Only bots tell people worried about their pre-existing condition and not being able to afford healthcare that death is inevitable. I find myself hoping that you are a bot and also worrying that you're not.
Only bots tell people worried about their pre-existing condition and not being able to afford healthcare that death is inevitable. I find myself hoping that you are a bot and also worrying that you're not.
1
The GOP just doesn't get it, do they? Now that people who didn't have insurance before do, they're not going to give it up without a fight.
There is an answer here for the GOP, if they can just see past partisanship: work with Democrats to *improve* the ACA, and make the Freedom Caucus irrelevant to the discussion.
There is an answer here for the GOP, if they can just see past partisanship: work with Democrats to *improve* the ACA, and make the Freedom Caucus irrelevant to the discussion.
22
Republicans get it, but a trillion dollars in tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires is more important to them than are the lives and health of working class Americans.
8
Your assumption is wrong. You think the GOP actually wants all Americans to have quality affordable insurance. They don't. But because ACA, even with its problems, was successful, they have to pretend that they do. That's their dilemma.
16
Sadly, I think I have to agree with you, Nancy. Until we the people stop providing top-level health insurance for our legislators free-of-charge, the unscrupulous among them will try to deny healthcare to us.
Those who design health care should have to be on it, without their billions to pay for all the gaps in coverage.
14
I give credit to the Freedom Caucus only for their candor. They genuinely do not want affordable, comprehensive healthcare for anyone other than their corporate donors. The rest if us can die young, go bankrupt, peddle our stories of woe on Gofundme.com.
29
Keep your eye on the money: this is about giving a massive tax cut to the rich by doing whatever it takes to pass a "health care" bill. The oligarchs will not let Trump give up, no matter how draconian the plan, until they get their tax cut.
23
I propose special car insurance for non-drivers. It would be cheap. It would be as logical as this proposal.
19
The only way to enable state-based health-care problem is to allow states make special provisions for the long-time residents of the state. That way a cancer patient from Louisiana will not show up in Washington state to drive up the cost there. Fix the problem in your state or live there with your problem.
1
I love how it's considered selfish to believe in lower premiums for healthy people, yet it's considered completely normal to request hundreds of thousands of dollars of tax payer money for your personal healthcare.
Since when does the world revolve around cancer patients?
When the cost of chemo is reasonable, we can distribute it to the masses. Until then, it's not worth the substantial drag on our economy to save a very small percentage of poor people.
Since when does the world revolve around cancer patients?
When the cost of chemo is reasonable, we can distribute it to the masses. Until then, it's not worth the substantial drag on our economy to save a very small percentage of poor people.
3
Well, the measure of a civil society is how well it takes care of those most in need. And it isn't a substantial drag, what is a drag on the economy is people, i.e. laborers, dying or getting sick because they lack access to reasonable healthcare. Look, most of the other countries in the world have resolved this issue, which is why literally no one has a healthcare system like our own because it doesn't work and it doesn't make sense.
I do not see the value in spending billions upon billions of dollars on an already bloated defense budget, if we are going to be okay with Americans, regardless if they are rich or poor, dying and suffering needlessly. It would be like a medieval lord spending a lot of gold on a a moat, only to be okay with everyone dying from the plague inside.
I do not see the value in spending billions upon billions of dollars on an already bloated defense budget, if we are going to be okay with Americans, regardless if they are rich or poor, dying and suffering needlessly. It would be like a medieval lord spending a lot of gold on a a moat, only to be okay with everyone dying from the plague inside.
1
Ah Nicky, perhaps if your mom or dad had cancer you just might alter your, yes, extraordinary selfish views. Unbridled capitalism is sooooo wonderful unless it affects you. America is the only industrialized country that puts healthcare in the hands of insurance companies. Wonder why.
1
Nicky, you forgot to tell us what major concerns you have in life that are addressed by provisions of federal or state law, so that people can decide whether to form a grass roots movement to get rid of those legal protections. Do you own your home home and take a home mortgage interest deduction on your federal taxes ? Do you get a property tax reduction for some reason ? Do you have any protection in your workplace against being fired at the will of the employer ? Do you have any kind of business license whose qualification rules may be much too lenient ? IS the interest on your credit card bills being limited by much too lenient federal or state law. IS the water quality you drink from the faucet in your home much too restricted by law ? Is your car insurance rate much too low because the insurance company is restricted by law from charging you more ? Anytime you believe that the law should not protect a significant group of people or people for a significant reason, those people or other people can just as readily turn around and take away from you any legal or economic advantage that you enjoy.
1
The problem with allowing states to decide the level of health care insurance is that generous states will become magnets for stingy states.
That is exactly what the Freedom caucus wants.
That is exactly what the Freedom caucus wants.
12
Well, there's a flip side to that, those generous states, which are more likely to be blue, would attract more people, which in turn would affect their population, which once we do the census would make them electorally more influential.
3
I have long suspected that the ultra-right in the GOP wants to thin the herd. If patients with cancer or serious pre-existing conditions are denied coverage and are unable to afford the care they need, they'll die--thus decreasing the "surplus population". Reduce this undesirable surplus and there's no need for "big goverment." See? They do have a plan.
The only way to justify these new ( or rather, old) ideas as anything other than inhumane and heartless is to claim to be concerned about the many younger and healthier people who can now afford healthcare (as long as they remain healthy and don't get pregnant). But such claims would be lies: young healthy people without kids and pregnancies are not a majority of the right wing's constituents, nor are they expected to be as a result of this policy, if it passes. Who is? The insurance companies, their shareholders, and other millionaires and billionaires.
16
How hateful and mean do you have to be to deny insurance to patients with cancer all the while YOU are getting premium healthcare provided by some the very people who you are denying coverage to? Do they realize that their constitutes will be dying and not able to vote for them again? Hope Karma takes a big old bite out of the Freedom Caucus with them needing chemotherapy in the near future. Of course they won't have to worry about how to pay the bills with their own good policies.
28
I'm a health professional, and if this bill passes, I'll tell you exactly what will happen. People who don't have access to care will go to the Emergency Rooms at our local hospitals for non-emergency treatment. This will cost all of us hundreds of times more, placing an enormous burden on our hospitals. The system is broken and we need to invest in a single-payer system where everyone has care. Not just "access to" care or "availability of", but real health care. Like all the other industrialized countries in the world. In France, the doctors still make house-calls! We haven't seen that in 50 years!
56
Run Logan, Run! The 23rd Century has come more quickly than they imagined in 1976 when at age 30 you became too expensive for the government to care for you and were terminated.
12
They get what we get. We should demand that all members of Congress give up their own premium health insurance policies--policies that we the people pay for--and settle for whatever plan they deem good enough for all the rest of us. They get what we get.
30
And once again all the folks who object to paying for insurance they don't need and object to having "their" dollars help defray tge cost of other folks' insurance will think they've won, without realizing that state and local taxes will ultimately rise to cover the deficits incurred when the uninsured can't pay their bills for care at public hospitals and when medical providers will raise their bills to make up for those unpaid bills.
21
Go for it Freedom Caucus!!! Now all they have to do is eliminate keeping kids on their parent's plan until 26 yrs old. If they can do all of that and pass it, it will be the absolute best thing that can happen for the Democrats. And it could finally bring about a move to single payer.
And so much for Trump's tirade against the Freedom Caucus.
And so much for Trump's tirade against the Freedom Caucus.
16
The Ryan And Trump (RAT) Plan - "Make America Sick Again"
24
Why not just repeal Obamacare? That would get you (Freedom Caucus and others) exactly what you are asking for: an end to community rating, and end to coverage of essential health benefits - in short, life before 2010. So why aren't they doing this? Because they know that their constituents want these benefits. So instead of just saying "we don't want any kind of equitable health insurance for the majority of Americans because it costs too much" they are trying to end it without mentioning their goals. What a brave new world they are trying to usher in!
17
Kathleen You actually answered your own question. That is that repeal without replacement is exactly what they want but they promised replacement so they have to pass a "bill" that essentially does nothing
5
A very large percentage of Republican lawmakers were born with several pre-existing conditions... Mercilessitis and Chronic Greeditis.
33
while this made me chuckle momentarily, I quickly sobered up.
This is exactly who these people are.
If they eliminate the package of basic benefits, which include what they would deem "fripperies," no doubt, such items as hospitalization, emergency services, prescriptions, maternity care, pediatrics, mental health care, substance abuse, etc. , what does their plan actually cover?
God save us from these people and from this venal administration.
This is exactly who these people are.
If they eliminate the package of basic benefits, which include what they would deem "fripperies," no doubt, such items as hospitalization, emergency services, prescriptions, maternity care, pediatrics, mental health care, substance abuse, etc. , what does their plan actually cover?
God save us from these people and from this venal administration.
9
Let's add to this bill that every member of Congress and the Executive branch must be covered (only) by this so-called insurance and see if it passes.
25
The odds of getting cancer within one's lifetime is almost 40%. How are these millions of people going to get the necessary care required if the insurance companies do not want to pay for chemotherapy or other forms of treatment? I would gladly help pay into a pool to help those dealing with cancer after seeing my father suffer and succumb to his illness. Do these politicians and insurers think cancer will pass over them. Unlike these deplorables, cancer does not see race, gender, income, lifestyle, etc., and it will knock on their doors as well.
21
Republican religious conservatives have been blocking Medicaid expansion to 400,000 Virginians at a cost of lost lives, avoidable suffering and forgoing billions of dollars of Federal aid to pay for expansion. They don't care. They really don't . If Trump can come up with a contorted formula which pleases enough right wingers, it will pass. Saving lives is not a consideration
20
It is impossible to comprehend what these folks have in mind. Each represents a district, mostly in the south. Is this really what their constituents want?
Also, not only will there be no access to outpatient care for more people, but hospitals must accept sick people even when not covered. The less number of people covered by health insurance, the more likely hospitals will close. Is this also what they want?
There is no common sense in the prospective of the "freedom" group. It all seems self defeating in the end.
Also, not only will there be no access to outpatient care for more people, but hospitals must accept sick people even when not covered. The less number of people covered by health insurance, the more likely hospitals will close. Is this also what they want?
There is no common sense in the prospective of the "freedom" group. It all seems self defeating in the end.
13
Without the 10 Essential Benefits, whatever was being offered would not be health insurance. It would be cover for spineless politicians to be able to blame states (less likely to afford the bills) and blithely move on to perpetrating their next grievous insult to the American public. There is a special place in the afterlife for people who would so wound their fellow citizens.
23
So Trump once more advocates a total betrayal of his promise to replace Obamacare with a law with better care, lower premiums and no less coverage, including preexisting conditions and no cutting of Medicaid, all so he can give another tax cut to the rich. Trump's supporters aren't likely to turn on him now, so soon after they put him in office, but democrats should be saving the videos from this betrayal of the average guy about whom Trump pretended to care
20
These sociopaths aren't really interested in making sure their fellow citizens can get good, affordable health insurance. The so-called Freedom Caucus is the worst of the worst.
17
High Risk Pools - YGBSM. That idea failed less than 10 years ago. Surprising except when you consider that Republicans still believe in "trickle down" economics.
17
More like "mist down" these days.
7
Well there you have the "Christian" Republicans' true attitude. If you have an existing condition and can't afford to pay for healthcare then die. Sure, we'll have high risk pools but we won't give them enough money to help cover everyone and it will still be unaffordable private insurance. Every time a Republican opens his mouth he makes the case for single payer.
36
Let's face it, the Freedom Caucus (what a ridiculous name!) doesn't want government involved in any kind of insurance. They believe that people should have the freedom to suffer and die. What a collection of carnivores!
34
Republicans just don't want to face up to the responsibility that healthcare is a right and the government has to play a meaningful role in providing it. for a party that talks about making America great again they sure seem to be doing everything to tear us down and make things harder. How anyone can argue that having access is the same as having health insurance doesn't deserve to be called a fellow American
9
Wow..."death panels" indeed. let's make sure cancer patients can't get coverage, and wait, let's call pregnant women invalids as well.
22
In other words, but unbeknownst to them, Republicans continue to present the best arguments FOR single payer.
Excellent.
Excellent.
25
Trump will do anything for a win, even if its a kiss of death for him down the road. He's willing to change positions so fast that a chameleon would blush at the spectacle, "c'est incroyable!"
He might as well blow a hole in the ACA without the pre-existing conditions requirement. Its happy days again for the profits at the Insurance companies. I hope there are enough right thinking Republican Senators and Democrats to put a stop to this madness.
He might as well blow a hole in the ACA without the pre-existing conditions requirement. Its happy days again for the profits at the Insurance companies. I hope there are enough right thinking Republican Senators and Democrats to put a stop to this madness.
12
"the promise that people can buy insurance even if they’ve had illnesses in the past."
I'm sorry, but that is not insurance.
I'm sorry, but that is not insurance.
1
Anyone can develop cancer or get hit by a bus at any time. Let that sink in for a moment.
8
If you have money you don't have to worry about these new terms.
6
What's the point of having principles unless you are willing to let other people die for them?
Those committed to free-market principles are resigned to having other people die unnecessarily based on their own adherence to ideological purity.
Those committed to free-market principles are resigned to having other people die unnecessarily based on their own adherence to ideological purity.
6
It's horrible, but it is tough not to wish awful diseases on these people, and wretched insurance. They do know how to try patience and kindness.
8
"Because they help people with substantial health care needs buy relatively affordable coverage, they drive up the price of insurance for people who are healthy."
This premise is a ruse. The insurance industry wants to only insure the healthy, not to keep premiums low for people, but to keep what they deem "lepers" out of the pool to make more profits for their investors & stakeholders, and of course the vaulted knights of the healthcare industry - their CEO's.
This premise is a ruse. The insurance industry wants to only insure the healthy, not to keep premiums low for people, but to keep what they deem "lepers" out of the pool to make more profits for their investors & stakeholders, and of course the vaulted knights of the healthcare industry - their CEO's.
10
Undermining the coverage for preconditions is better for the insurance companies. The less they have to cover the more profit. that is, after all, the whole point of the Republican plan, however it shakes out.
6
So, under this new proposed replacement states get to decide who is worthy of health care? Talk about death panels.
8
Who on earth continues to vote for these freedom caucus people year in year out ?
13
Probably the folks in gerrymandered states.
2
We need to have a long national discussion about this bill or any other healthcare reform bills. It's truly a matter of life or death.
10
this is all a big smokescreen. Republicansjust want a huge tax cut for the top 2 percent so they can do tax reform. not one of them is interested in anyone's health or the consequences of eliminating provisions designed to cut costs. they really want the Medicaid money and everyone else can go back to not having health care at all
8
The Republicans would have us believe their message is: "There is no free lunch." In truth, however, their message really is, "There is no lunch."
7
I often wonder how these people get elected. They must be very smart; surely people don't elect idiots to national office?!
But these very "smart" people, and those who support them and don't want there to be really comprehensive health for ALL, seemed to have overlooked a few small issues. I'm sure it's just a simple oversight and will be corrected shortly.
First of all, insurance is not like any other commodity. You absolutely will need it one day. So it cannot be regulated like cars or cable or phones (all of which can be left to market forces).
But most importantly, if YOU don't pay for insurance - I HAVE to pay for it. All these smart people are missing a very fundamental thing about insurance - we all play no matter what. If a guy gets injured and has no insurance I pay for his care through higher hospital bills - after all, they can't refuse to help him, and they're not going to lose money.
Health care in this country is the ultimate "we're all in this together". You may not want to pay for some "undeserving" person, but the fact is you already are. Why not give him or her an opportunity to pay something, even a small amount?
Maybe I'm just too smart.
But these very "smart" people, and those who support them and don't want there to be really comprehensive health for ALL, seemed to have overlooked a few small issues. I'm sure it's just a simple oversight and will be corrected shortly.
First of all, insurance is not like any other commodity. You absolutely will need it one day. So it cannot be regulated like cars or cable or phones (all of which can be left to market forces).
But most importantly, if YOU don't pay for insurance - I HAVE to pay for it. All these smart people are missing a very fundamental thing about insurance - we all play no matter what. If a guy gets injured and has no insurance I pay for his care through higher hospital bills - after all, they can't refuse to help him, and they're not going to lose money.
Health care in this country is the ultimate "we're all in this together". You may not want to pay for some "undeserving" person, but the fact is you already are. Why not give him or her an opportunity to pay something, even a small amount?
Maybe I'm just too smart.
9
Prior to any medical procedure, merely present yourself as a post-fetus. This will assure all the necessary care needed. In a clinch, pretend to be a congressman or senator.
11
Single payer. Done. Works for Congress, doesn't it?
10
It does work, very well as all other western countries have shown.
2
Oh my goodness, catering to a little bunch of millionaires. Willing to diss millions of people to satisfy a handful who have a gold package,courtesy of you, the American taxpayer. 45 is so desperate for a win he'll sell those people who voted for him. From what I read, his supporters will back him no matter what, so I guess 45 can do whatever he wants.
And where is Paul Ryan? Still nursing his wounds? Haven't heard a peep out of him since the health care debacle.
And where is Paul Ryan? Still nursing his wounds? Haven't heard a peep out of him since the health care debacle.
7
To those Trump voters who need this provision, tough. To the others who need this provision, I'm sincerely sorry. To the next round of Democratic congressional and presidential candidates, congratulations, this will add a few hundred thousand supporters. To Republicans everywhere, the top 1 percent thanks you profoundly.
6
I have to add one thing about the old pre-existing-condition-screened system that applied in most states pre-Obamacare, and that the discussed plans want to to bring us back to.
Often, a person would fill out the application for pre-existing-condtion-screened health insurance as honestly as memory allowed, pay the premium, be approved, and issued health insurance, and feel secure with the insurance.
But then, later, they would have a big medical claim, and the insurer would seek additional medical records, and review in more detail the cross-insurer medical claims and pre-existing-conditions databases, and, if they found anything at all inadvertently left off the pre-existing-conditions list on the original application, they would not pay the big claim, and would rescind the policy.
Here is a reference:
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/watch.html
where we see executives of 3 Health Insurance Companies indicating an intention to continue the practice of rescinding policies on people even when the person with the policy (and big medical bills) did not intend any misrepresentation or fraud. (There is a case of one woman affected by such rescission in Texas at 3:20-6:00 in the video. At 6:00-7:00 in the video, heads of 3 insurance companies indicate to Congress that they will not stop rescinding policies after claims come in, even for accidental pre-existing-conditions omissions.
See also: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/blue-cross-to-docs-help-cancel-coverage/
Often, a person would fill out the application for pre-existing-condtion-screened health insurance as honestly as memory allowed, pay the premium, be approved, and issued health insurance, and feel secure with the insurance.
But then, later, they would have a big medical claim, and the insurer would seek additional medical records, and review in more detail the cross-insurer medical claims and pre-existing-conditions databases, and, if they found anything at all inadvertently left off the pre-existing-conditions list on the original application, they would not pay the big claim, and would rescind the policy.
Here is a reference:
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/watch.html
where we see executives of 3 Health Insurance Companies indicating an intention to continue the practice of rescinding policies on people even when the person with the policy (and big medical bills) did not intend any misrepresentation or fraud. (There is a case of one woman affected by such rescission in Texas at 3:20-6:00 in the video. At 6:00-7:00 in the video, heads of 3 insurance companies indicate to Congress that they will not stop rescinding policies after claims come in, even for accidental pre-existing-conditions omissions.
See also: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/blue-cross-to-docs-help-cancel-coverage/
10
Then they should be forced to repay the money paid in premiums, ideally with interest.
2
Hi replier-to-me Citizen:
The thing is, the insurance company repaying the premum, with interest, doesn't solve the buyer's problem.
The buyer thought they were insured. And they, after this post-insurance health incident, may have $600,000 in medical bills, and they may even not be able to get insurance for some time or forever (it depends on if the state has a high-risk-pool, its rules, whether it's closed, etc.)
Thus, I was pointing out another way the old pre-existing-condition-screened system can really take a person out financially and health-wise, even if they never tried to game the system, and always maintained health insurance prior, all of their life.
(For more ways the pre-existing-condition-screened system could fail a person badly, see this NYT article https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/22/business/president-donald-trump-healt...
The thing is, the insurance company repaying the premum, with interest, doesn't solve the buyer's problem.
The buyer thought they were insured. And they, after this post-insurance health incident, may have $600,000 in medical bills, and they may even not be able to get insurance for some time or forever (it depends on if the state has a high-risk-pool, its rules, whether it's closed, etc.)
Thus, I was pointing out another way the old pre-existing-condition-screened system can really take a person out financially and health-wise, even if they never tried to game the system, and always maintained health insurance prior, all of their life.
(For more ways the pre-existing-condition-screened system could fail a person badly, see this NYT article https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/22/business/president-donald-trump-healt...
So the Freedom (to Die) Caucus scuttled the American Hell Care Act because it is not draconian enough.
If AHCA 2.0 passed, Trump could blame it on them and thus dodge his responsibilities to his supporters. However, had he been really the POTUS for all, he would not helped accepted even AHCA 1.0, let alone 2.0.
Too bad that his supporters are still making excuses for him
If AHCA 2.0 passed, Trump could blame it on them and thus dodge his responsibilities to his supporters. However, had he been really the POTUS for all, he would not helped accepted even AHCA 1.0, let alone 2.0.
Too bad that his supporters are still making excuses for him
5
Here's the problem - we've become a soft nation of free-riders, unable or unwilling to take responsibility for ourselves.
With a majority of the population now clinically obese, the cascade of disease - diabetes, heart disease, joint deterioration, etc etc - is inevitable. Couple that with a medical profession and industry now armed with advanced, incredibly expensive drugs, equipment and technology to keep us alive (barely, mostly disabled and in pain), and we have a crisis.
Years ago I learned that 80% of government healthcare costs were invested in the last 6 months of life. Having seen exactly what that looks like with my own parents, I came to understand the need for rationing and rules. As a society, we under-allocate healthcare to the early years of life (pre-natal and adolescent) and over-allocate to the twilight years. Government should provide more balance to ensure a healthier start in life (which often impacts all of one's life). And we should limit public funding of care at the end of life. If someone wants more care (surgery, hospitalization, drugs, etc), then it can be obtained through private insurance.
There's your fix.
And if I want to live a high-risk lifestyle - whether base-jumping or bloating out on food and TV - I belong in a high-risk pool. What is so mysterious about that? I am responsible for my health, and the cost to maintain it.
With a majority of the population now clinically obese, the cascade of disease - diabetes, heart disease, joint deterioration, etc etc - is inevitable. Couple that with a medical profession and industry now armed with advanced, incredibly expensive drugs, equipment and technology to keep us alive (barely, mostly disabled and in pain), and we have a crisis.
Years ago I learned that 80% of government healthcare costs were invested in the last 6 months of life. Having seen exactly what that looks like with my own parents, I came to understand the need for rationing and rules. As a society, we under-allocate healthcare to the early years of life (pre-natal and adolescent) and over-allocate to the twilight years. Government should provide more balance to ensure a healthier start in life (which often impacts all of one's life). And we should limit public funding of care at the end of life. If someone wants more care (surgery, hospitalization, drugs, etc), then it can be obtained through private insurance.
There's your fix.
And if I want to live a high-risk lifestyle - whether base-jumping or bloating out on food and TV - I belong in a high-risk pool. What is so mysterious about that? I am responsible for my health, and the cost to maintain it.
1
So my young adult daughter diagnosed with scoliosis as an adolesdcent will now be uninsurable. How is that her fault? Or my friend's child with schizophrenia? Or my sister's son with thyroid disease diagnosed in young adulthood? Or my nipeighbor's child diagnosed with asthma. Each of these individuals would now be uninsurable through no "fault" of their own.
All so the healthy can have lower premiums? Maybe, in part. But more so the rich can have their tax breaks!
All so the healthy can have lower premiums? Maybe, in part. But more so the rich can have their tax breaks!
3
Yet when Michelle Obama suggested that kids eat more fruits and vegetables, people treated it like the second coming of Stalin.
You Republicans positively slay me!
You Republicans positively slay me!
How about euthanizing people once they reach a certain birthday? Or just offer free euthanization for anyone who wants it? We could withhold care for anyone over a specified age who has a stroke or heart attack. The possibilities are endless.
1
By definition, we are all walking around with pre-existing conditions -- it's just that many of us don't know what they are, until illness strikes! I know these pols have a tin ear, but do they not have a heart? Would any of them surrender their gold-card health care and opt for this? No. So why should anyone else? Either extend senate-level health care to all, or go to single payer. The solution is really pretty simple -- expensive, perhaps, but simple. And for US citizens to be freed from worry about health insurance -- well, as the old commercial used to say, that's priceless!
12
FWIW, Congress lost their federal employee healthcare in 2014 as part of the ACA. They now have to buy it through the D.C. Exchange. Methnks this is what they really hate about the ACA. I do not know how they treated themselves under the AHCA -- but it is something we should follow in each and every one of these proposals.
1
Yeah, well, the republicans who push this draconian view of health care are also generally the same people who wear their religious beliefs on their sleeves and proclaim themselves "Christians" when it comes to abortion and lGBT rights (ie against both) are the same people seeing someone sick without health insurance and saying "tough, you don't deserve help"..and Evangelical Christians, many of them who need help with health insurance, who gained it through Obamacare and expanded medicaid, shout "Amen!" To that.
4
Along with this latest kick in the nation's head, Republicans are rolling back regulations that keep air and water clean, and that help protect the environment from heat-related illness and disease.
In short, they are creating an environment, quite literally, that can generate pre-existing conditions, where there likely would be none otherwise.
Brilliant. Nothing like handing a health insurance company CEO the keys to his fourth yacht while actually creating a reason for denial of coverage to a widowed single mother.
Meanwhile, an interesting side note is that in this forum, conservative commenters are declaring to health-insurance-for-all liberals that health care isn't a right, that no one should pay for anyone's health care, that we should return to denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions, and yet - it was those same liberals who paid the price at the voting booth.
One wonders why Trump supporters just do not understand who their enemies really are.
In short, they are creating an environment, quite literally, that can generate pre-existing conditions, where there likely would be none otherwise.
Brilliant. Nothing like handing a health insurance company CEO the keys to his fourth yacht while actually creating a reason for denial of coverage to a widowed single mother.
Meanwhile, an interesting side note is that in this forum, conservative commenters are declaring to health-insurance-for-all liberals that health care isn't a right, that no one should pay for anyone's health care, that we should return to denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions, and yet - it was those same liberals who paid the price at the voting booth.
One wonders why Trump supporters just do not understand who their enemies really are.
14
None of us are immune from disease, or accidents, or aging, or bad genes, or just bad luck. We are all eventually going to end up in the high-risk, high-cost pool - last I knew, no one has yet figured out how to get out of the difficult process of dying. If these guys have their way, when we are the most vulnerable and need the most help, we will instead be cast aside, with the notable exceptions of the rich, the powerful, and the Republicans in Congress who I am certain will not be subject to this hellish plan they are devising for the rest of us. This is not humanity, it is inhumanity.
7
At what point do we decide that it is economically irresponsible for the U.S. Government to issue long-term debt to cover current account deficits? The debate should not be about coverage. It should be about cost and the debt we are incurring to pay twice as much as our friends in Canada for less coverage. It is socially unacceptable to burden our progeny with debt to pay our reckless consumption today.
1
And this, at the same time we seem to be increasingly losing the privacy of our DNA. Many could soon be denied coverage, possibly, before they are even born.
5
Look, the bottom line is the new proposed bill will shift toward less coverage and less subsidy. It will reduce the number of insured in the US. The question is whether the moderate will go for that, since they have go to back and face their voters in their re-election in 2018. If they vote for this, will they have a plausible explanation for their voters who lost their low cost insurance. My guess is some probably can, other can't. We will see.
1
I am an independent who voted Republican in 2016. I cannot support a repeal of the mandate on covering people with pre-existing conditions, nor a repeal of community rating. Just like I abhor the democrats caving in to the extreme left, I cannot accept Republicans caving in on this issue to the extreme conservative right. Lowering health premiums only for the healthy( which includes me by the way) is not what this country needs. All of us, are vulnerable to becoming unhealthy at some point. I really don't think this will have full Republican support.
6
If you voted for Trump, you voted for this. He didn't withhold his plans for the ACA so this can come as no surprise to you or others who voted Republican.
Unfortunately, the rest of us are forced to live with your vote.
Unfortunately, the rest of us are forced to live with your vote.
6
Sorry Samuel, you voted for Trump so you now you own it.. There was ample evidence pre-election that Trump could not be counted on.
1
Many people who have been comfortable for so long they view the less fortunate with contempt. Obamacare has many warts and may very well be in a death spiral, but it is fixable and amenable to financial and operational improvements. I personally don't enjoy paying the substantial Obamacare taxes, but truth be told they have not hurt my lifestyle. It is worth the payment to ensure that all people have affordable board coverage healthcare. These members of congress proposing this takeaway represent greed and corruption.
24
You must be a Commie - or a Canadian. Just joking Pellam. We Canadians take it as a matter of common sense that all people will be covered by universal health care. Watching this mangled approach you're going through is a great mystery to us.
3
Republicans cannot solve this problem because they reject the very idea of sharing. Sick people are in sick people pools so healthy people do not have to pay for them. This sounds idiotic until you realize that ridiculous rhetorical individualism has so corrupted their thinking that they have become sociopaths. Government is sharing in many ways and, of course, government is bad. They claim to prefer local government but the red states are starved of revenue as well.
18
Let's start a national referendum: Members of the United States Senate and the House of Representatives Shall Not Have Access to Government Health Insurance, They Must Buy Their Health Insurance on The Individual Insurance Market.
35
They already are, since 2014. Pretty sure this is why they hate the ACA so much, they lost their federal employee health insurance.
Slow down and think. Of course there will be insurance for preexisting conditions but likely covered in a separate high risk pool which will be heavily subsidized. Others will see subsidies reduced somewhat to pay for the costs of their sick brethren.
2
"Of course there will be insurance for preexisting conditions but likely covered in a separate high risk pool which will be heavily subsidized." Oh, of course. That worked so well last time!
5
Idea that didn't work and still will not work on faith.
5
I say cheers to a repeal of the ACA and a replacement with a huge tax cut to the super wealthy and some awful program that won't cover pre-existing conditions. I say cheers to it, b/c it was an awful system and since the ACA was passed under Obama's leadership, the public in this country knows and has experienced a better way (although not perfect at all).
If Trumpy and the Republicans pass a repeal of the ACA that no longer covers pre-existing conditions, I am hopeful that this would wake up the white working class, many of which are sick and getting sicker to vote them out in 2018 and to revolt and help move the country towards single payer.
If Trumpy and the Republicans pass a repeal of the ACA that no longer covers pre-existing conditions, I am hopeful that this would wake up the white working class, many of which are sick and getting sicker to vote them out in 2018 and to revolt and help move the country towards single payer.
12
That sucks for people who didn't vote for Trump and are sick. As a young person with cancer, this bill is right on track to my untimely demise. Hope I don't have to die to teach others a lesson (not that I would expect sympathy from the psychopaths who support Trump).
11
The preexisting condition proposal discussed here can be made to sound by the GOP as if they are retaining the Obamacare preexisting conditions requirement when it fact they're not. The messaging on this is absolutely crucial just like the issue about allowing "access" to health care......
4
Once an entitlement, always an entitlement. And that's what politicians have to deal with re: the pre-existing-condition clause.
Insurance companies are for-profit entities, and they can't be expected, nor should they be forced, to adopt a business "strategy" that would drive them to bankruptcy.
We need a "Medicare for All", single-payer healthcare law, where it is required for all citizens to purchase some level of coverage. It will be more expensive than what is available now, but that's a consequence of creating an entitlement expectation in the markets. At least the government can leverage its purchasing power to keep the insurance companies profitable, if unhappy because the profit margins shrink - as they must.
As for the Freedom Caucus, they are quickly becoming marginalized with the exception, perhaps, of their respective constituencies. That's fine. They're a fringe group of whack jobs that belong in a museum of politicians done in by their own ignorance.
Insurance companies are for-profit entities, and they can't be expected, nor should they be forced, to adopt a business "strategy" that would drive them to bankruptcy.
We need a "Medicare for All", single-payer healthcare law, where it is required for all citizens to purchase some level of coverage. It will be more expensive than what is available now, but that's a consequence of creating an entitlement expectation in the markets. At least the government can leverage its purchasing power to keep the insurance companies profitable, if unhappy because the profit margins shrink - as they must.
As for the Freedom Caucus, they are quickly becoming marginalized with the exception, perhaps, of their respective constituencies. That's fine. They're a fringe group of whack jobs that belong in a museum of politicians done in by their own ignorance.
8
"At least the government can leverage its purchasing power to keep the insurance companies profitable"....
With that kind of leverage, why doesn't the government simply become the healthcare provider? Since when does the government have to guarantee profits for an insurance company?
With that kind of leverage, why doesn't the government simply become the healthcare provider? Since when does the government have to guarantee profits for an insurance company?
4
I have worked in the health insurance industry for over 35 years. Through out my career at various times I managed the customer service area. Before the Affordable Care Act, this was a difficult position because I would have to speak to individuals who were either denied coverage because of their health or could not get any coverage for over a year for their pre-existing condition. For those who were totally denied coverage, in Wisconsin we had the Health Insurance Risk Pool, (HIRSP) where no one was denied coverage. There were a number issues, a nine month waiting period before coverage would begin after you were denied by a health insurance company. In addition the premiums were out of reach for most.
When Congressional Members make it sound like this Health Insurance Risk Pool for chronically ill and terminally ill individuals is a solution for dealing with those who really need coverage do not be fooled. They are only kidding themselves that this is a solution to those who need medical care the most. None of them would accept this type of coverage for any of their family members.
When Congressional Members make it sound like this Health Insurance Risk Pool for chronically ill and terminally ill individuals is a solution for dealing with those who really need coverage do not be fooled. They are only kidding themselves that this is a solution to those who need medical care the most. None of them would accept this type of coverage for any of their family members.
34
So, somebody please do the math. A state ops to not cover the sickest citizens. But people will seek health care or end up in expensive emergency rooms. Unless a patient has the means, then such a system tends to impoverish a large chunk of its citizens whose income eventually leads to a level in which folks can apply for Medicaid. This then drives up the cost of Medicaid for the state and the overall cost of health care. Once again the market, as the Republicans like to say, has worked!
10
Hoping all supporters of Trump read this and contact their legislators to let them know that they want real, affordable, health care coverage, even if they have a pre-existing condition. It is absurd to think that our government will force people to go bankrupt in order to pay for required health care. Time to think again about getting insurance companies out of this, and just extend medicare to all? do the Republicans seem to have our best interests at heart?
9
What is the purpose of health insurance if you can afford it only when you are healthy? When you get sick you should be able to buy it at the same cost as when healthy. Otherwise it is meaningless.
14
Which gets us back to a penalty if you fail to buy it when healthy. That charge is only fair for the rest of us who do buy insurance.
1
Sorry, Trump supporter do not read real newspapers . They think like Trump and his Cabinet. However , I do believe that many people in Trump circles deal with doctors that do not even take Insurance . They take cash only to include major operations.
Wonder if the trump voters know this?
Wonder if the trump voters know this?
None of the people making these policies live in a world where they had to find their own individual insurance, save for their own retirement, and trade-off purchases, homes, education, etc for the care of family or friend, and depend on friends or family for childcare, etc.
The first step to reforming the healthcare system is putting government employees and elected officials on the same footing as the citizenry with regard to healthcare and retirement. As my Swedish grandmother used to say, "what's good for the goose is good for the gander"!
The first step to reforming the healthcare system is putting government employees and elected officials on the same footing as the citizenry with regard to healthcare and retirement. As my Swedish grandmother used to say, "what's good for the goose is good for the gander"!
13
The GOP has signaled it wants to lower costs and "give consumers a choice.' The absolutely ONLY way this can be done is to allow insurance plans to reduce the scope of what they provide and make it harder for those with pre-existing conditions to get affordable coverage.
That's how they come up with the nonsense about needing to be "continuously covered" (one moment of not being able to afford insurance and all the cost containment disappears for you).
State sickness pools has been tried in 30 states and failed in nearly every one of them because they just go too expensive. The federal government will have to shovel tons of money in to keep these running--a complete waste.
That's how they come up with the nonsense about needing to be "continuously covered" (one moment of not being able to afford insurance and all the cost containment disappears for you).
State sickness pools has been tried in 30 states and failed in nearly every one of them because they just go too expensive. The federal government will have to shovel tons of money in to keep these running--a complete waste.
9
If there is a silver lining - those who voted for Trump and Republican lawmakers thinking that ACA will not be touched - now you have learned your lesson.
Remember to vote for those who stands behind you in 2018 and 2020.
Remember to vote for those who stands behind you in 2018 and 2020.
7
the next step is to repeal the requirement that er's treat anyone even those wo ins
not only will that save gobs of money, it will cull the less desirable losers from the throng
i have lived in 3rd world countries where one must show cash or an insurance card BEFORE any treatment is rendered
those wo either are told to leave
trust me, folks, you dont want to live in such a place
14
There was a time in the US when ERs could do that, refuse service. In 1986, a law was passed that they could not refuse service to anyone.
It costs way too much to cover everyone. Republicans, especially tea party, owes no favors to people who cannot be fully employed with health benefits, nor to people who do not save for kids college or retirement. #MAGA.
Where does it leave the minority who is not successfully employed? Limbo. Who is responsible for those folks? Not government per the current administration, because a government should not intervene with our lives or business and should consist only DoD? U.S.A. is the best country in the world, but not for everyone. Just for the ones that are healthy, have a good education, great connections and ability to lead people.
The answer is that in order to be globally competitive the country needs to ensure that it's most valuable resource, people, are better educated, healthy and happy. This means that families with less financial resources there need to be a good education path, affordable healthcare, and clean environment. (However, the current administration does not support global point of view or this agenda.)
Where does it leave the minority who is not successfully employed? Limbo. Who is responsible for those folks? Not government per the current administration, because a government should not intervene with our lives or business and should consist only DoD? U.S.A. is the best country in the world, but not for everyone. Just for the ones that are healthy, have a good education, great connections and ability to lead people.
The answer is that in order to be globally competitive the country needs to ensure that it's most valuable resource, people, are better educated, healthy and happy. This means that families with less financial resources there need to be a good education path, affordable healthcare, and clean environment. (However, the current administration does not support global point of view or this agenda.)
7
The Republicans are not going to stop until they have isolated all the folks with pre-existing conditions into a sinkhole of debt....hoping we will die off before we use up the money they will allocate to the states to help with the cost. And as for high-risk pools... 30 states had them before 2010...Georgia (my state) had none. They didn't expand Medicaid either under the ACA. So do I think they are going to be looking out for me if this bill passes. Not ON MY LIFE....not ON MY LIFE! Shame! Shame! Shame! How did the health of the citizens of this country become political. It's a country-wide, non-partisan problem. Tax us all for the cost. it's no different from national defense...we all need it and we all must finance it.
12
So here it comes, the bait-and-switch and the great unravelling of the state. The loss of heath insurance will further undercut a sense of trust in the governmental structure. But wait! That is the stated goal of the Bannon-Vulgarian partnership, to "...blow-up the state."
The Vulgarian wants only to win, to be able to pronounce himself as having destroyed ACA, to dominate. Will the cheering hoards who bought his con and now lose their heath care coverage continue to cheer him and buy his campaign merchandise now?
The Vulgarian wants only to win, to be able to pronounce himself as having destroyed ACA, to dominate. Will the cheering hoards who bought his con and now lose their heath care coverage continue to cheer him and buy his campaign merchandise now?
12
This is the "let the wannabe parasites die plan". Our Republican rulers will, of course, refuse to allow assisted suicide for these wannabe parasites. This is to to ensure that they and their families experience maximum suffering. According to these religious nuts, like Meadows, the experience of suffering is what prepares one's soul to accept redemption from Christ. These Freedom Caucus guys don't view death and suffering as you and I do, they view it as redemptive, and who needs redemption more than poor and sick people? These wretched creatures suffer these consequences because they are not blessed with God's Grace. Suffering is the only way to get through their willful pride and save them from the fires of eternal hell. Amen. It also prevents the crime of the government forcing God's Elect from sharing the rewards that only they deserve. That's Scripture.
7
Well said!! Keep in mind that there self-righteous "Republican rulers" preach a major contradiction: they state that are "Pro-Life", but they're also "Pro-Death Penalty"...except those terminally-ill patients who want to die with dignity!
1
The Republican idea of health insurance is: Your health = your problem. Please just go die out of sight somewhere and give me my tax cuts.
This whole "Freedom Caucus" thing is just a cruel charade -- a way for the GOP to pretend they're actually going to repeal the ACA without ever doing it. And meanwhile keeping their base in line. "Just wait; any day now we're going to come out with a fabulous repeal plan. The same way we came up with our beautiful alternative to Obamacare that's going to cover more people for less money." Yeah, right.
Disgusting liars.
This whole "Freedom Caucus" thing is just a cruel charade -- a way for the GOP to pretend they're actually going to repeal the ACA without ever doing it. And meanwhile keeping their base in line. "Just wait; any day now we're going to come out with a fabulous repeal plan. The same way we came up with our beautiful alternative to Obamacare that's going to cover more people for less money." Yeah, right.
Disgusting liars.
9
More nonsense from the Free Dumb ones. It's not insurance if it does not provide coverage for your unanticipated medical needs, "high risk pools" do not work, republicans and trump voters get really sick, too, and everyone has a pre-existing condition. Can you say "DOA"? Of course you can.
9
Someday in this great country, except for the leadership, folks will wake up and take the folks selling health insurance, out of the game. They can devote all their time to selling auto insurance and homeowners insurance. Which can be a experience in ethics gymnastics, by itself.
It is as if the US looks at other places that have health insurance, and say those folks are suckers. Our way is better.
Then when you realize we pay more in medical costs than everyone else, but we no longer have the best care...something has to ring the bell of common sense.
This country has got to take the next step. Single payer. The current ACA is and has flaws. And it is in play because of what was in play before the ACA.
So time to move on.
Or we could just let the Republican Party take care of the wealthy folks as is their normal actions. And to hell with the rest of the population.
It is as if the US looks at other places that have health insurance, and say those folks are suckers. Our way is better.
Then when you realize we pay more in medical costs than everyone else, but we no longer have the best care...something has to ring the bell of common sense.
This country has got to take the next step. Single payer. The current ACA is and has flaws. And it is in play because of what was in play before the ACA.
So time to move on.
Or we could just let the Republican Party take care of the wealthy folks as is their normal actions. And to hell with the rest of the population.
9
When you remove strong regulations from the equation of something like healthcare, it creates a power vacuum that resolves to more power for plutocrats.
Some in the GOP genuinely believe in smaller government and don't understand this. They think it's more "freedom." These are the useful idiots.
Some in the GOP understand perfectly well how the power vacuum is resolved and are simply out to screw the rest of us. This is the plutocracy.
Some in the GOP genuinely believe in smaller government and don't understand this. They think it's more "freedom." These are the useful idiots.
Some in the GOP understand perfectly well how the power vacuum is resolved and are simply out to screw the rest of us. This is the plutocracy.
7
45 is a cruel, rage-filled man who clearly hates ordinary Americans. His worshippers in Congress can't wait to add to American grief.
6
What is wrong with Mark Meadows? Too inhumane to be believed! He would likely change his mind in a heartbeat if any one of his family members were diagnosed with cancer.
7
Mark Meadows has no heart.
2
What heartless people are the so called Freedom Caucus (what a name). Do they not know any working people with cancer? These people are lower than the stuff on my shoe.
7
This one is even worse than their last failed attempt! All people with pre-existing conditions will no longer be covered. There will be medical bankruptcies galore. So cruel! Everyone needs to protest in the biggest way possible! And in 2018 vote out every Republican who votes for this bill.
9
The "Freedom Caucus" is a misnomer.
Unfortunately, The Times cannot print what they deserve to be called.
Unfortunately, The Times cannot print what they deserve to be called.
6
Single payer. Now.
13
This disgusts me more than anything the Republicans have done since Trump took office. They deserve to be forced to have the same insurance they are attempting to foist on America. Throw the bums out in 2018.
7
Is this right? Or is it only me who thinks on this picture mark Meadows is blushing. I mean, who could have such a terrible idea without a red face?
Yesterday, Sanders said the Trump voters aren't the deplorable. Well, not all of them they are. But here, we have one fine specimen.
Yesterday, Sanders said the Trump voters aren't the deplorable. Well, not all of them they are. But here, we have one fine specimen.
Just remember, 48% percent of the voting public elected this guy. A majority of white women, 33% hispanics, 10% African American, majority of white males. Everyone who voted needs to be prepared to get sick and not get covered. Welcome to Trump's America, and the motto, "You better stay healthy"
This is just plain evil. Let's not bandy words about what is obvious.
5
This is getting worse and worse. What is wrong with the republicans? They deliberately set out to hurt the American people.
7
The depth and scope of Republican callousness and cruelty is boundless. How do people like Meadows sleep at night? The must be a he'll, because really, where else can these Republicans go?
5
Who do these people represent? Certainly not the voters.
3
Silly fellow, they represent whoever is greasing them with cash, which in the case of the Republican Party and especially the Freedom Caucus is Big Oil, Big Pharma, Big Health Care Industrial complex, Big Corporate America. Voting to allow ISP's to track and sell your personal information was a just a shot across the bow for whats coming.
What type of insurance policy does Mark Meadows have? The best the taxpayers of this county pay is their benefit. How awful are these people? You may be healthy today but sick tomorrow. How do these people keep getting elected? Shame, shame shame.
5
The so called Freedom Caucus represent the sadism and cruelty of the heinous Koch Brothers. This ideology is sick and deadly. These are morally and ethically corrupted people.
5
Let all registered republicans opt for their insane inhuman healthcare plan and all registered democrats choose chose ACA. Applicants must produce their official DNC or RNC ID cards. That's fair. All blue states will have health care and all red states will eventually depopulate. Gets rid of gerrymandering too. Win-win!
3
So those coal miners who aren't really going to have a job to go back to are not going to be able to get health insurance to cover their pre-existing "black lung". Strong work, Republicans! Of course the all have great health insurance thanks to the taxpayers.
7
Trump supporters get angry when liberals call them uninformed and ignorant. This just proves it.
They are not going to see this train coming until it runs over them
They are not going to see this train coming until it runs over them
5
The sadism among conservatives knows no bounds.
5
Right wing Republicans (such as Ryan and the "Freedom" Caucus) don't like "entitlements" (social programs for the poor and/or sick and/or old) because (1) taxes must be paid to sustain these programs and some of those taxes might be paid by good or smart or lucky people to help undeserving people, and (2) those undeserving people are encouraged to be bad or dumb or unlucky if they get free stuff.
But the right-wing Republicans in this case are both bad (to-hell-with-my-neighbor attitude) and dumb (everyone benefits when everyone - the mentally ill, for example - has health care). Let us hope they are also in this endeavor unlucky.
But the right-wing Republicans in this case are both bad (to-hell-with-my-neighbor attitude) and dumb (everyone benefits when everyone - the mentally ill, for example - has health care). Let us hope they are also in this endeavor unlucky.
3
A Ryan/Trump death panel. Favor the healthy, or wealthy. Send underclass losers into the woods, while whispering "you're fired!"
4
Can we rename the Freedom Caucus something that more accurately reflects their ideology? The Murder Caucus would do nicely.
3
One more thing. Remember how these folks think. If you need health care and can't afford it, it's because you are simply not a good enough person and you don't work hard enough. If you need financial support due to job loss, lack of good education (not your fault if you live in the wrong neighborhood), lack of jobs, disability, family tragedy, etc. you don't deserve it. Because if you did deserve it you'd have it. I have opportunity, and an education, and a good job, and most importantly MONEY. And because of that I'm simply better than you and you don't deserve my help.
THAT, at it's core, is the Republican philosophy.
THAT, at it's core, is the Republican philosophy.
2
Are Republican members of Congress, the President and his staff deaf? Did Congress not just return from seeing and hearing their constituents, who told them in no uncertain terms they would not stand for losing the no pre-existing condition part of their health insurance?
Albert Einstein famously said that to continue to do the same thing over and over expecting a different outcome is the very definition of madness.
I knew the GOP was heartless, but I am surprised to discover they are insane as well.
Albert Einstein famously said that to continue to do the same thing over and over expecting a different outcome is the very definition of madness.
I knew the GOP was heartless, but I am surprised to discover they are insane as well.
8
What was that definition of insanity again? The Republicans have set a new standard for it.
5
If this is the case, then Congress should be forced to buy insurance like everyone else.
7
Actually, they are, which is one reason why they hate the ACA so much..
ACHA update: 24 million fewer people covered by insurance, Medicaid gutted, more expensive costs for premiums, plus the Freedom Caucus "sweetener" of no coverage for pre-existing conditions -- all to fund a $600 billion tax cut for the 1%.
7
Hey "freedom" caucus members: don't actual existing humans, including those who are ill, have a right to life also?
8
Only if they are unborn. Once you're out and about, you're on your own.
2
I should have gotten a hearing aid, or perhaps I have dementia, but I recall keep the ban on pre-existing conditions as a Trump promise.
7
I might be in favor of health plan proposals that require two things:
1) ALL members of Congress, POTUS, the White House cabinet and advisors (paid and unpaid), SCOTUS, FBI, CIA, military, and every federal worker MUST sign up and pay same premiums as us, NO exceptions, and if you let premium pymts lapse for 60-90 days, you are FIRED without any unemployment or federal benefit perks; lawmakers must also resign their term within 30 days of notification;
2) Such health care law takes effect within 60 days of passing so lawmakers can't run away.
Then watch as a truly fair health plan gets mutually worked out and passed by both parties with support of insurance companies. After all, even crooks and evil special interests have to live, too.
1) ALL members of Congress, POTUS, the White House cabinet and advisors (paid and unpaid), SCOTUS, FBI, CIA, military, and every federal worker MUST sign up and pay same premiums as us, NO exceptions, and if you let premium pymts lapse for 60-90 days, you are FIRED without any unemployment or federal benefit perks; lawmakers must also resign their term within 30 days of notification;
2) Such health care law takes effect within 60 days of passing so lawmakers can't run away.
Then watch as a truly fair health plan gets mutually worked out and passed by both parties with support of insurance companies. After all, even crooks and evil special interests have to live, too.
Let's provide car insurance only to people who don't drive.
9
The young, healthy people who think they don't need health insurance are the same people who text while driving..... Back to hospitals and the insured covering the expenses of those who cannot pay.
I think the people who voted for Trump and the many statements he made while campaigning about repealing Obamacare are finally starting to understand the impact the Republican health plan will have on them. If they don't get it now, they sure will when (whatever) Republican is approved. As they say .... "be careful what you wish for".
5
Rational leaders (Democrats, Independents) need to have a unified, easily understood message about Trump/Republican healthcare:
Trump and the Republicans want to greatly reduce your insurance coverage, take away $800 Billion from Medicare and give that money to Billionaires in tax cuts. They want the middle class and poor people to have reduced health coverage to pay for hundreds of Billions in tax cuts for Billionaires.
This needs to be repeated over and over again - every time Trump and the republicans talk about 'affordable' healthcare.
Low premiums are meaningless if the insurance doesn't cover you when your sick. 'Access' is meaningless if you can't afford the level of insurance that give's you the coverage you need
Trump and the Republicans want to greatly reduce your insurance coverage, take away $800 Billion from Medicare and give that money to Billionaires in tax cuts. They want the middle class and poor people to have reduced health coverage to pay for hundreds of Billions in tax cuts for Billionaires.
This needs to be repeated over and over again - every time Trump and the republicans talk about 'affordable' healthcare.
Low premiums are meaningless if the insurance doesn't cover you when your sick. 'Access' is meaningless if you can't afford the level of insurance that give's you the coverage you need
3
If you look at Florida, you see a state with nearly a million uninsured people. How returning to the pre-ACA days with the same basic insurance environment will help this situation is puzzling. Of course a big portion of this issue is for people to do what the can to avoid catastrophic illness - healthy lifestyle is an individual's responsibility here. But stuff happens, and modern health technology can often deal with it but at great expense. Is health care a privilege or a right? Until this country answers that question there will be endless wrangling over how to deal with the costs.
3
Pay us now or pay us later. Because anything republicans view as acceptable will be unacceptable to the millions of voters thrown off affordable coverage who will come back and put democrats who voters know are the only option that have any possibility of delivering the health care coverage they want. Finally the litmus test to demonstrate that republicans never did have the general publics' interest in mind as much as their wealthy patrons' interests -- for millions of us keeping up out here that has always been plain.
1
Let them continue to alienate people with medical conditions and they will suffer the consequences. I know staunch conservatives and others on Medicare who think it is great. It shatters the notion that government cannot manage at reasonable cost. Allow it to negotiate drug prices (oh, free market, what a concept) and it is a no-brainer. Medicare for all - just like roads and power for all, and lets move on. The health insurance companies can then be obsoleted like many other industries have. Of course then they will be asking the government to bring their jobs back.
8
It's all about making money for the insurance companies and hospitals. Scrap health insurance and let everyone pay for their care as needed. The costs of medical care will rapidly reduce once people are unable to pay the present astronomically inflated rates and the vulture middlemen are removed from the picture.
3
I am horrified at what I'm reading in this article. The United States sends food and medicine to foreign nations as a humane effort to provide help for suffering, sick and starving people. Yet in this country we seem to care less for the sick or weak.
Healthcare should be a basic right, especially when corporations pollute our resources for their own gain.
Are the Republicans trying to kill off everyone else? I would like to have the same health insurance that our Congressmen/women have!
Healthcare should be a basic right, especially when corporations pollute our resources for their own gain.
Are the Republicans trying to kill off everyone else? I would like to have the same health insurance that our Congressmen/women have!
7
This is cynical. They want ACA to die. They want insurers to pull out of ACA exchanges. Therefore, talk up things that are good for insurers, like underwriting based on pre-existing conditions. And cancel the baseline protections. Good for insurers, bad for people and patients.
Near-term purpose: Create conditions for ACA to die on the vine.
Medium-term purpose: Cut enough ACA spending that a second and larger tax cut for the rich can go through this year on reconciliation. I.e., transfer money from poor and disabled patients to the wealthy.
Long-term purpose: Kill all government insuring of health for American people, including Medicare, Medicaid, and subsidized exchanges.
Near-term purpose: Create conditions for ACA to die on the vine.
Medium-term purpose: Cut enough ACA spending that a second and larger tax cut for the rich can go through this year on reconciliation. I.e., transfer money from poor and disabled patients to the wealthy.
Long-term purpose: Kill all government insuring of health for American people, including Medicare, Medicaid, and subsidized exchanges.
5
This article represents rampant speculation offering the most ridiculous possibilities. Republicans are not going to suggest that people buy insurance that excludes cancer coverage, anymore than they are going to provide federal subsidies for aromatherapy, as was suggested in a recent article.
What they are going to do is allow the insurers to set community rating, appropriately age adjusted, that will be available to people who have been continuously insured, regardless of health condition. They will set up state pools for those who wait until they get sick to get insurance, which will expect people who are wealthy to chip in some of their wealth via higher premiums or coinsurance. People who delay getting insurance but are still healthy when they buy insurance will pay a surcharge commensurate with how long they have been freeriding.
Medicaid will remain in place for the poor or for those who deplete their assets.
What they are going to do is allow the insurers to set community rating, appropriately age adjusted, that will be available to people who have been continuously insured, regardless of health condition. They will set up state pools for those who wait until they get sick to get insurance, which will expect people who are wealthy to chip in some of their wealth via higher premiums or coinsurance. People who delay getting insurance but are still healthy when they buy insurance will pay a surcharge commensurate with how long they have been freeriding.
Medicaid will remain in place for the poor or for those who deplete their assets.
3
The proposed Trump/ Republican plan would create less expensive premiums for insurance that would be basically worthless if you actually had a severe illness. The cost of an insurance plan that covers illness (i.e cancer) would be too expensive for many middle class and working poor to afford.
In regards to Medicare, the plan is looking to cut funding by over $800 Billion that will be used a gift to Billionaires in the form of a tax cut. Are you ok with reduced or eliminated healthcare for millions of fellow citizens to give Billionaires a tax cut?
In regards to Medicare, the plan is looking to cut funding by over $800 Billion that will be used a gift to Billionaires in the form of a tax cut. Are you ok with reduced or eliminated healthcare for millions of fellow citizens to give Billionaires a tax cut?
3
As we know from the debate about the AHCA, age adjustment is just another way to penalize the poor.
Also, why should someone have to be continuously insured to benefit from lowered rates. What happens when someone cannot afford insurance because the tax credit was age adjusted instead of income adjusted?
State sickness pools don't work as exhibited by the bankruptcies that most state pools experienced. If Medicaid gets turned into a block grant, it will not be available for most poor. The US Territories currently get Medicaid in that form and it's truly been a disaster.
Is this the "fantastic" healthcare plan we were promised? It's just a bunch of failed ideas.
Also, why should someone have to be continuously insured to benefit from lowered rates. What happens when someone cannot afford insurance because the tax credit was age adjusted instead of income adjusted?
State sickness pools don't work as exhibited by the bankruptcies that most state pools experienced. If Medicaid gets turned into a block grant, it will not be available for most poor. The US Territories currently get Medicaid in that form and it's truly been a disaster.
Is this the "fantastic" healthcare plan we were promised? It's just a bunch of failed ideas.
1
You didn't read the article, and instead are merely repeating the analysis of right wing media.
Do yourself a favor: read the article. This is a tax cut masquerading as a health plan.
And then go learn about how insurance is structured.
Good grief.
Do yourself a favor: read the article. This is a tax cut masquerading as a health plan.
And then go learn about how insurance is structured.
Good grief.
4
An employee gets cancer and is covered by his employers health care policy, his job is ended due to a work force reduction. Now that employee will not be able to find affordable insurance because of the prior condition. This is a heartless concept of health care.
61
I don't think this is an afforability issue. I think there's a fundamental question of whether any insurance company will take on this person, at all.
The former CEO of Palm devices wrote a great op ed about how she (a quite wealthy individual) could not get health insurance. She once applied for health insurance while needing a minor operation. Because of this "condition," her application was denied. She was then further denied on subsequent applications for any insurance because she had to say that she had been denied insurance in the past.
The former CEO of Palm devices wrote a great op ed about how she (a quite wealthy individual) could not get health insurance. She once applied for health insurance while needing a minor operation. Because of this "condition," her application was denied. She was then further denied on subsequent applications for any insurance because she had to say that she had been denied insurance in the past.
5
That exact thing happened to me when I quit my job some years ago and wanted to consult. Naive, young me, who had always been covered by my employers (government and nonprofit) was denied any coverage at all because of the word "cyst" (nothing to do with cancer) appearing in my health records. I'm on ACA coverage now (after again quitting my nonprofit job to consult), and if they get rid of this requirement, I'll have to stop pursuing my dream and go back to traditional employment, if I can find it. Many, many people are like me: stuck in jobs or unable to start a small business (unlike in Europe).
8
Besides being cruel, it is also grossly unfair to provide subsidies to group policy members that are not provided to others in the individual market. It is not commonly acknowledged that the government already has a big hand in corporate group plans and provides a ton of money and rules to make those plans function.
It is just basic fairness that individual policies be provided the same level of government support so non-corporate buyers can get the same deal as corporate employees. Of course, those individual buyers would be paying both the employee and employer portion of the premium, but at least they would be getting their fair share of the government help.
This issue is faced not only by the already sick. Many corporate employees decide to become independent contractors, and not all states require insurance companies to issue group policies to small, one or two person groups. There is not justification for treating some citizens better than others when it comes to insurance access, cost, and consumer protection.
It is just basic fairness that individual policies be provided the same level of government support so non-corporate buyers can get the same deal as corporate employees. Of course, those individual buyers would be paying both the employee and employer portion of the premium, but at least they would be getting their fair share of the government help.
This issue is faced not only by the already sick. Many corporate employees decide to become independent contractors, and not all states require insurance companies to issue group policies to small, one or two person groups. There is not justification for treating some citizens better than others when it comes to insurance access, cost, and consumer protection.
2
Insurance is based on underwriting specific risks.An insurer cannot insure a house with a leaking roof.Likewise the high risk of a person with a preexisting injury is uninsurable.The numbers do not work if the insure seeks to make a profit.there is only one way to offer health care to everyone.Its medicare for all. No more insurance companies.Only how much tax will be required?
14
If your roof leaks and you can't afford to fix it, you can theoretically move into a rental or something. There's no analogy for when you can't afford your health care bill.
There's nothing wrong with the insurance company. The wrong part is when they make a profit off insuring.
There's nothing wrong with the insurance company. The wrong part is when they make a profit off insuring.
That could be computed by comparing costs and taxes in any western European nation with national health care. But included in the calculus would have to be medical salaries relative to other salaries, hospital overhead, and what they pay for pharmaceuticals - this is part of the hard work of cleaning up the mess of medicine in the USA that Congress et al seems unwilling to do. There's way too much waste and overcharging in American medicine to make national health care affordable without major changes in how US medicine operates.
1
ZL do you work for nothing, all pro bono stuff? Because that is what you are expecting insurance companies to do. Very naive.
High risk pools could theoretically work, including lowering the costs of insurance premiums to healthy people. However, the costs of paying for workable high risk pools - one where pre-existing conditions are covered, community rating is enforced and premiums are truly affordable (2 to 7% of AGI depending on income?) - would probably end up costing the government at least as much it costs for the subsidies under the ACA cost. So this would be a non-starter for the Freedom Caucus. Also, if you really had workable and affordable high risk pools, which did not contain a continuous care requirement, what would be the incentive to maintain insurance until you get sick?
7
Many states under funded high risk pools pre-ACA days. Policies were high priced, coverage was skimpy and deductibles and co-pays were also much higher than most insurance policies. The high risk pools put people in the position of having to decide to eat or have medicine to live. It seems to me that by undoing the community rating basis for health insurance, the Republican proposed plan is necessarily going to be more expensive, offer less coverage, and be no improvement al all.
1
Schneiderman, isn't sharing risk in a pool the essence of insurance? Splitting the sick from the healthy is the exact opposite of shared risk. Or is this another exercise in individualism? Perhaps people should fix their own potholes.
1
The risk would still be shared. Instead of the sharing coming from payment of insurance premiums though a large pool as occurs in the ACA, the "sharing" would come from taxes or premiums paid to support the high risk pools. But as I said in my comment, the cost of a good high risk pool would be well into the tens (if not hundreds) of billions of per year so it's a non-starter with the Freedom Caucus. My only point was that high risk pools could theoretically work if sufficiently subsidized.
The other part of the Freedom Caucus' plan - including eliminating community rating and pre-existing conditions - is cruel and wrong.
The other part of the Freedom Caucus' plan - including eliminating community rating and pre-existing conditions - is cruel and wrong.
Isn't it time we–meaning the US–got ourselves a divorce? Nothing lasts forever. We had a decent run as one nation. But let's face it, basically half the country believes in a reasonable, rational, humane, progressive liberal democracy, while the other half either believes in or has endorsed an insane, nihilistic, dumb, regressive and fascistic world view based on lies, hate and hypocrisy.
Let's work together to work out a division of land. I suggest the right-wingers take their homeland: south of the Masoo-Dixon line and east of and including Texas. Right-wing states outside of that zone can opt to become part of it as a satellite.
The rest of us will take the northeast, west coast and whoever chooses to come along, provided they prove they're not insane.
Come on, America, let's work together to split up! We'll all be happier for it.
Let's work together to work out a division of land. I suggest the right-wingers take their homeland: south of the Masoo-Dixon line and east of and including Texas. Right-wing states outside of that zone can opt to become part of it as a satellite.
The rest of us will take the northeast, west coast and whoever chooses to come along, provided they prove they're not insane.
Come on, America, let's work together to split up! We'll all be happier for it.
61
I think it's easier just to join Canada... At least the remaining parts will be contiguous.
On a more serious note, who gets to keep the nuclear weapons?
On a more serious note, who gets to keep the nuclear weapons?
I live in Maryland -- we wouldn't be happy as part of the red-state nation. I've thought that perhaps we'd eventually have to divide, but there really is no way to divide evenly. And perhaps our division now wouldn't last forever.
1
I suggest the northeast and west coast join Canada which seems to be a country that cares for its citizens fairly well. They have always been a peaceful neighbor to the USA so the right- wing home- landers will feel safe. A win win all around.
1
My husband and I have been self-employed off and on throughout our careers, and have bought insurance coverage under the old model and the ACA. I cannot express how much better our exchange plan was, even though we didn't qualify for subsidies and so paid roughly four times the cost of the pre-ACA plan--which covered approximately nothing, left us with hundreds in medical bills from a nasty case of viral pinkeye, and was difficult to get since I have a pre-existing condition, hayfever. Oh, and I got denied by a different plan for having had mono years before, too. Not exactly high cost or high risk conditions.
Another friend who was self-employed pre-Obamacare dropped her birth control because her plan didn't cover it, now a provision of the ACA's basic care requirements. Surprise! She had an unplanned pregnancy soon thereafter, and wound up on Medicaid. Her daughter is lovely but I'm not sure how that saved taxpayers any money.
To suggest that a return to that model is a nod to "freedom" is ignorant at best. The freedom to what? Die more quickly from stress-induced chronic conditions resulting from worry over health care?
Another friend who was self-employed pre-Obamacare dropped her birth control because her plan didn't cover it, now a provision of the ACA's basic care requirements. Surprise! She had an unplanned pregnancy soon thereafter, and wound up on Medicaid. Her daughter is lovely but I'm not sure how that saved taxpayers any money.
To suggest that a return to that model is a nod to "freedom" is ignorant at best. The freedom to what? Die more quickly from stress-induced chronic conditions resulting from worry over health care?
68
Insurance plans purchased pre-ACA often left the consumer with a lot of bills to pay in the event of a major illness. I often heard people express surprise when they saw the large deductible they agreed upon was only the beginning of a long list of exclusions.
1
Then please let your congress representative know. I called my GOP congresswoman (Barbara Comstock, VA 10) EVERYDAY during the week of the last vote to express my disapproval of the last bill. Me, and many, many like me. She ultimately switched her vote and she's a reliable supporter of Paul Ryan's policies. The only way to stop this travesty of a bill is to make noise. You saw how it worked the last time. This time it needs to be louder.
2
Too bad we don't hear more from people like you in the public discourse...
What a great idea (sarcasm) to offer health insurance for the healthy, those that don't need health insurance, while denying insurance or making it more expensive for those that need it.
Either way this is all about profits.
If I'm healthy and don't need any care all the money I spend on insurance will go to profits.
If I'm sick either I can't get health insurance, which means the company doesn't need to spend money on me, which means more profits, or I get health insurance at astronomical costs, which means more profits for the company, or pay out of pocket, which means even more thousands of dollars in profit for pharmaceuticals, etc.
Either way this is all about profits.
If I'm healthy and don't need any care all the money I spend on insurance will go to profits.
If I'm sick either I can't get health insurance, which means the company doesn't need to spend money on me, which means more profits, or I get health insurance at astronomical costs, which means more profits for the company, or pay out of pocket, which means even more thousands of dollars in profit for pharmaceuticals, etc.
13
As long as we voters shy away from demanding -- and I mean demanding -- health insurance coverage precisely equivalent to what US Senators get (and enjoy), we will continue to be fools.
47
Please be sure to write to your representative in Congress to state that we deserve their coverage. I wrote to Bernie Sanders who wants universal coverage but the Congressional representatives should also use the same coverage. There shouldn't be a separate ruling class who have superior coverage. That would end all debates.
4
Yes! Let's get all we want for free! Brilliant idea!
Forget about it. This is not insurance, it is a scam guaranteed to ensure hefty profits for insurance companies. Having experience with the pre-ACA individual plans, let me say that the premiums were not just very high, they were discriminatory based upon the whims of the individual underwriter assigned to your application. If this is how we are going, then we should just all go without insurance and see what happens.
8
Unconscionable. How do these guys sleep at night? And who votes for them? I know all about those "high risk pools" they think are such a good idea. In 2010 I was paying $1500 a month (yes! this is not a typo) for just myself in a CA high risk pool as a self-employed HEALTHY 53 year old. That cost did not include any pharma coverage (the good news here is that I was healthy, and didn't take any medication other than vitamins). The reason I was in this pool? Ten years earlier I had taken thyroid medication for an under-active thyroid. Bottom line, pretty much anyone who is on their own in the insurance market over the age of about 45 is going to be judged with a pre-existing condition. This is how the insurance companies roll. This is why Americans need the force of legislative protection, which we must count on from our Congress. So if the cost for decent insurance (I had good coverage other than the pharma piece) was like a second mortgage in 2010, what would be my monthly nut if Obamacare rolled back? I am betting over $2000 a month, and I don't know many who could pay that--so I guess the alternative, Mr. Meadows and Followers is what? Death? I would like YOU to have these same constrictions on your insurance, particularly since I, as a taxpayer, am paying for it!
26
Just do away with the whole things and switch to a publicly funded single-payer system. Every other developed country has a public system that delivers better overall care for less cost.
What, worried about your taxes going up? You're already paying them. They're called "premiums". Factor in co-pays and deductibles and you're coming out ahead.
You'll never again have to fight with your insurer about a claim, never again be limited to only seeing the doctors associated with your HMO, never again have to decline a better job because you're worried about the health plan changes.
Oh - and once you've done it, be sure to allow the system to negotiate bulk drug prices with Big Pharma... Like other countries do.
It's actually the fiscally conservative thing to do.
What, worried about your taxes going up? You're already paying them. They're called "premiums". Factor in co-pays and deductibles and you're coming out ahead.
You'll never again have to fight with your insurer about a claim, never again be limited to only seeing the doctors associated with your HMO, never again have to decline a better job because you're worried about the health plan changes.
Oh - and once you've done it, be sure to allow the system to negotiate bulk drug prices with Big Pharma... Like other countries do.
It's actually the fiscally conservative thing to do.
71
True Capitalism. Living and dying in debt.
12
Wow, take something incredibly unpopular (even among your base) so unpopular you couldn't vote on it and make it even worse!! These folks should teach a class in "how not to govern". Maybe, sometime, in the future people will figure out that the Republicans actually DON'T care about them. But given the articles I've seen in this paper and elsewhere profiling Trump voters I don't hold out much hope.
25
I guess no one in the White House or Freedom Caucus has ever had an illness or accident, or known anyone who had an illness or accident. That's the only explanation I can think of for why they're so myopic.
20
Apparently, they all have enough money so it does not matter.
They are myopic because they have a Cadillac health plan, paid for by you and me. In addition, many of them are wealthy. Their vision is limited by the blinders of privilege.
Selfish, as they are OK. Sometimes corrupted forms of Christianity plays a role. Jesus is looking out for them but not, apparently, for people who suffer misfortune.
Sometimes misfortune wakes them up but only when they are stricken. They are not an imaginative bunch.
Sometimes misfortune wakes them up but only when they are stricken. They are not an imaginative bunch.
The Republicans are obviously counting on the ignorance of people. They would be not only making it impossible for people with pre-existing conditions to get health insurance, but also allowing the health plans to hike the policies' price at will. So, if you are healthy today, and tomorrow you get arthritis, you are doomed anyway, but today you are happy, because you are paying less and think that you will never get sick.
To make things worse, since it seems many people believe whatever they are told, so the Republican party only has to say that this is the best plan ever, and a lot of people will simply vote for them, without thinking.
This is an attempt against the life and well being of all United States citizens that are not covered under a group health insurance. If the Republicans hate American citizens that much, they should at least support assisted end of life laws. This may be the only viable option left to us, cancer patients.
To make things worse, since it seems many people believe whatever they are told, so the Republican party only has to say that this is the best plan ever, and a lot of people will simply vote for them, without thinking.
This is an attempt against the life and well being of all United States citizens that are not covered under a group health insurance. If the Republicans hate American citizens that much, they should at least support assisted end of life laws. This may be the only viable option left to us, cancer patients.
17
How much more are we Americans willing to take it on the chin until we reach a point of no more? When are we going to have our own French revolution and really drain the current swamp?
21
she whinges from belgium
Are there no prisons?" asked Scrooge.
"Plenty of prisons," said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.
"And the Union workhouses?" demanded Scrooge. "Are they still in operation?"
"They are. Still," returned the gentleman, "I wish I could say they were not."
"The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?" said Scrooge.
"Both very busy, sir."
"Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course," said Scrooge. "I'm very glad to hear it."...
I help to support the establishments I have mentioned -- they cost enough; and those who are badly off must go there."
"Many can't go there; and many would rather die."
"If they would rather die," said Scrooge, "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population.
24
Completely apt and no exaggeration.
2
Two simple questions...what is wrong with this country? Does "American exceptionalism" include being the exception in the industrialized world where healthcare isn't a right of its citizenry?
21
Exceptionally destructive to other countries and at the same time exceptionally cruel and uncaring towards our own citizens. Gotta love the Republican way.
Can you say "culling the herd"?
7
Although I am angry about the changes coming down the pipeline that will likely affect everyone's Health Insurance negatively, a small part of me gets some satisfaction out of watching the people who elected Trump get exactly what they voted for. Nothing wrong with that, right?
7
Republicans scream about letting states do this stuff.
Well, they had that opportunity, and many chose not to. The idea that the fed. gov. should just give states a "block" grants so they can do whatever they want is the height of irresponsibility. We all know where the money WON'T go-- to those who actually need it.
One of most common reasons people have had to declare bankruptcy is over medical expenses----and those people had insurance! But that was when very bad policies were allowed to be sold---the very same type of policies being proposed now by Republicans.
Insurance isn't only about health. It's about not going bankrupt paying doctor and hospital bills for your sick or injured loved ones.
Well, they had that opportunity, and many chose not to. The idea that the fed. gov. should just give states a "block" grants so they can do whatever they want is the height of irresponsibility. We all know where the money WON'T go-- to those who actually need it.
One of most common reasons people have had to declare bankruptcy is over medical expenses----and those people had insurance! But that was when very bad policies were allowed to be sold---the very same type of policies being proposed now by Republicans.
Insurance isn't only about health. It's about not going bankrupt paying doctor and hospital bills for your sick or injured loved ones.
8
Millions for billionaires...poverty for the poor without medical coverage.
Would anyone want to share a table at Mickey D's with a member of the Freedom Caucus?
Me? I'd love love it...
Smoosh!
Would anyone want to share a table at Mickey D's with a member of the Freedom Caucus?
Me? I'd love love it...
Smoosh!
Unfortunately, the GOP voters are asleep. They went to the voting booth. They won and that is it. They have already gone nighty, nighty. Trump could pawn off America piece by piece and they would not be watching. They do not read the News. They get their information from the many provided echo chambers. So none of this is real.
5
Like Alan Grayson said, the Republican health care plan for America is "Don't get sick." But its not a fool-proof plan. For those Americans who do get sick, the Republican health care plan is "Die quickly."
11
Sadly, I'm pulling for those repugnant republicans to pass any version of their terrible health care bill so in 2018 all those who voted against their own best interests will elect enough dems to take back the house.
7
The GOP healthcare plan will cover you.... with 6 feet of earth.
26
I think you're missing a word in this sentence from the article:
"That would mean that more middle-income Americans would probably have health coverage than before the Affordable Care Act, since the combination of policies would tend to make insurance much more affordable for people who are young and healthy."
"That would mean that more middle-income Americans would probably have health coverage than before the Affordable Care Act, since the combination of policies would tend to make insurance much more affordable for people who are young and healthy."
Ok compare to car insurance. Should people be able to wait for an accident to buy insurance to cover that accident? And then stop paying when the accident is paid for? In many stories NYT has run highlighting how great the ACA is such people have been included. Makes me think they couldn't find enough people who didn't play that game.
2
Death camps for those who really need health care.
Way to go, Republicans.
Wedon'tcare to replace Obamacare.
Shameless!
Way to go, Republicans.
Wedon'tcare to replace Obamacare.
Shameless!
11
It’s been a pattern since this administration took office.
Everything the previous administration did is being undone, one by one, and the country is reverting back to the GOP conservative sweet spot of eight years ago.
If I remember correctly, all the changes that are now being repealed were needed and all the ones now being enacted were exactly the problem.
Instead of building on the past eight years were turning back the clock.
Everything the previous administration did is being undone, one by one, and the country is reverting back to the GOP conservative sweet spot of eight years ago.
If I remember correctly, all the changes that are now being repealed were needed and all the ones now being enacted were exactly the problem.
Instead of building on the past eight years were turning back the clock.
6
If anybody really wanted a quick and simple solution, the Republicans could just repeal the ACA aka Obamacare.
That's what they screamed they wanted to do for the past 7 years.
All the chatter about a replacement is just that - chatter. There is no GOP replacement plan; there never has been. The GOP has never gotten that far in their planning. That's why the 18-day plan didn't please either the most conservative or the not-so-conservative end of the GOP.
The GOP leaders can talk all they want about keeping the popular parts of the ACA - they know that nothing less than a complete repeal of all benefits, will ever satisfy their core base and satisfy the profit-oriented insurance lobbying groups.
Just repeal it now and let the political chips fall where they may.
That's what they screamed they wanted to do for the past 7 years.
All the chatter about a replacement is just that - chatter. There is no GOP replacement plan; there never has been. The GOP has never gotten that far in their planning. That's why the 18-day plan didn't please either the most conservative or the not-so-conservative end of the GOP.
The GOP leaders can talk all they want about keeping the popular parts of the ACA - they know that nothing less than a complete repeal of all benefits, will ever satisfy their core base and satisfy the profit-oriented insurance lobbying groups.
Just repeal it now and let the political chips fall where they may.
2
In other words no freedom if you have a Pre-X condition. Hey I'm healthy or wealthy so why should I care about anyone else.
6
It's interesting to hear the GOP talk about this bill: there's no pretense that they are serving the interests of the people and their health care; they just want to "win" to make Trump look better. And to get tax savings for their tax cuts.
4
The Freedom Caucus have managed to top themselves after their last debacle. This latest D.O.A. proposal is truly fake insurance.
5
Great, so what the Republicans are saying in layman's terms is you can afford insurance coverage as long as you don't need it. Once you use it and need it going forward they can drop the coverage you need (claiming preexisting conditions) and charge as much as they want (so now you can't afford the coverage.
Why not make it simple and just eliminate insurance altogether and let everyone go broke. It is so painfully obvious that the Republicans have no interest in the care or well being of an individual, only the care and well being of a corporation.
So sad that our once great country is fast spiraling to the level (and eventually below) of truly third world nations in terms of caring for our own.
Why not make it simple and just eliminate insurance altogether and let everyone go broke. It is so painfully obvious that the Republicans have no interest in the care or well being of an individual, only the care and well being of a corporation.
So sad that our once great country is fast spiraling to the level (and eventually below) of truly third world nations in terms of caring for our own.
The Christian Freedom Caucus is surprisingly lacking in Christian values, including love of fellowman and charity. Hence no Heathcare is necessary, except for selfish them.
7
"The proposal is not final"
Oh, there's still time to strip out more provisions so even more people get screwed?
This is how Republican "progress" is defined. Anything to preserve the massive tax cut for the wealthy. That, after all, is their entire intent behind this so-called "health care" bill.
It should be called "wealth care".
Oh, there's still time to strip out more provisions so even more people get screwed?
This is how Republican "progress" is defined. Anything to preserve the massive tax cut for the wealthy. That, after all, is their entire intent behind this so-called "health care" bill.
It should be called "wealth care".
17
Maybe more like "stealth care"....because nothing is defined.
1
Other countries have affordable healthcare for all.
Other countries have millionaires and billionaires.
Why are US millionaires and billionaires so vile and indifferent to the common good vs the rich of other countries? Obviously our rich are funding these "initiatives" through covert finance and compliant people in the Congress.
Finally Meadows has a safe gerrymandered seat (wikipedia). But surely the majority of his voters are not the super rich and this legislation will only hurt them. Yet they keep him in office.
Very strange.
Other countries have millionaires and billionaires.
Why are US millionaires and billionaires so vile and indifferent to the common good vs the rich of other countries? Obviously our rich are funding these "initiatives" through covert finance and compliant people in the Congress.
Finally Meadows has a safe gerrymandered seat (wikipedia). But surely the majority of his voters are not the super rich and this legislation will only hurt them. Yet they keep him in office.
Very strange.
10
They keep him in office, because they can't imagine voting for the Hillaries, Billeries, and Pillories of the world that threaten their guns and homes.
The Republican Party never had an interest in providing Healthcare. They're They gambled hard that the Affordable Healthcare Act was never going to be made law; counting on Obama losing his second term and the Supreme Court ruling to do away with it. Even as they currently had their chance to repeal, they couldn't agree because the American people had a taste of it. Always remember the GOP's domestic policy centers around the reduction of Federal social services, (Medicaid, SNAP, Social Security, etc.) It's asinine for anyone to believe the GOP is trying to fix any social program as that's against the party's fundamental ethos. Typical I never agree with the Freedom Caucus however they were correct with their refusal of Trumpcare. If the GOP's goal is to remove The Affordable Healthcare Act, then anything less of full repeal would truly be un-republican. Misinformed Americans need to ditch their blind allegiance to a party that's determined to take the social safety net away. While your preferences on same sex marriage or immigration may be conservative, does that supersede your importance of clean water, healthcare, housing or food assistance if times get ruff. Trump ironically is the lesson America needs. Sometimes things must be taken away for us to learn how truly valuable they really are. Unfortunately most Americans aren't equipped for such a turbulent journey.
11
ObamaCare was poorly designed. It gives huge amounts of incremental revenue nd profits to big medicine. Some of the largess has to be stripped away from big medicine in order to deduce the cost of medical care. That means some rich "charity" hospitals will not be able to pay people like Michelle Obama $350,000 per year for a part time job that does not make any contribution to patient care, and the administrative executives of hospital chains, particularly non-profit "charity" hospitals will have to give up their seven and eight figure salaries.
Drug companies will no longer be permitted to game their price lists to maximize their profits as well as the profits of pharmacy benefits managers by using opaque pricing models.
If you knew anything about science, you would be aware that the Clean Power Plan does not reduce worldwide carbon dioxide. You would be aware that Germany is producing more carbon dioxide despite having fabulous renewable statistics. You would be aware that London and Paris have poorer air quality than before their adoption of the Kyoto requirements, and that the EU has not reduced their production of carbon dioxide as much as the US has, which did not adopt Kyoto.
Unfortunately, you rely upon what the politicians and left wing media tell you about science rather than what the scientists have to say.
So you believe that the ObamaCare objective of increasing insurance coverage is equivalent to increasing access to health care.
Drug companies will no longer be permitted to game their price lists to maximize their profits as well as the profits of pharmacy benefits managers by using opaque pricing models.
If you knew anything about science, you would be aware that the Clean Power Plan does not reduce worldwide carbon dioxide. You would be aware that Germany is producing more carbon dioxide despite having fabulous renewable statistics. You would be aware that London and Paris have poorer air quality than before their adoption of the Kyoto requirements, and that the EU has not reduced their production of carbon dioxide as much as the US has, which did not adopt Kyoto.
Unfortunately, you rely upon what the politicians and left wing media tell you about science rather than what the scientists have to say.
So you believe that the ObamaCare objective of increasing insurance coverage is equivalent to increasing access to health care.
1
Ironic that you've mentioned not one alternative to your list of complaints. No one argued that the Affordable Health Care was perfect, or as you've mentioned; whether the Kyoto Protocol was efficient. Even with there faults, Its still better than nothing; akin to putting out a fire with a leaky hose vs. no hose at all. As mentioned before, the GOP doesn't have an adequate alternative to the Affordable HealthCare Act because it was never their goal of providing healthcare to the American people. That is exactly why they're spending so much time configuring a way to remove the pre-existing conditions clause. Why mandate that the truly ill or sick have coverage when natural selection handles that free of charge.
2
I have a pre-existing condition. In 2004 I needed health coverage and my only option was a high risk pool. I wasn't sick, and hadn't been for many years. The high risk pool was very expensive and, from what I recall, would not have covered anything deemed to be related to my pre-existing condition. So, I would have had to pay a lot of money for insurance that wold not cover the types of treatment I was deemed most likely to need.
Thankfully, I was able to purchase COBRA coverage until I found a job with health benefits. But that was a scary experience, to apply for insurance with multiple companies and be denied. That we might be moving back toward that system seems inhumane.
Thankfully, I was able to purchase COBRA coverage until I found a job with health benefits. But that was a scary experience, to apply for insurance with multiple companies and be denied. That we might be moving back toward that system seems inhumane.
16
All of the Republican plans provide for community rating for people who have been continuously insured. Period. So if you had allowed your insurance to lapse, you would wind up in a high risk pool, but otherwise you would get community rating.
Big medicine loves the fact that the taxpayer is subsidizing health insurance that people can buy during the open enrollment period, waiting until they are sick. Under the Obama regime, a woman becoming pregnant qualified her for a special enrollment so that young healthy women did not have to buy insurance until after they became pregnant.
Big medicine loves the fact that the taxpayer is subsidizing health insurance that people can buy during the open enrollment period, waiting until they are sick. Under the Obama regime, a woman becoming pregnant qualified her for a special enrollment so that young healthy women did not have to buy insurance until after they became pregnant.
The error in the argument is that eventually a lot of the healthy people that would get insurance now will develop Cancer, Diabetes or some kind of heart disease and would become part of the "bad insured". Even if the republican radicals manage to kill all the people with pre existent conditions nowadays we will always get sick people.
12
If you get sick while in a Republican designed plan, the insurer is not allowed to rerate you or cancel your coverage.
After someone had been continuously covered in a high risk pool, they are entitled to move to community rating.
in a normal insurance pool, 20% of the participants consume 80% of the benefits in any given period. What ObamaCare did was create synthetic pools where the high cost proportion became 50-60% and the remaining 40-50% proportion was inadequate to subsidize the people who were already sick.
If you have a normal pool and can slowly meter in the unhealthy, the system has time to equilibrate.
The individual market might very well be stable today but for the fact that Obama, for personal political benefit, interfered with the metering. During the summer of 2012, he declared that the employer mandate would be delayed from 2014 as the law required, to 2016. He did this because the job creation in 2012 was essentially all part time employment as the employers of unskilled workers were gearing up to avoid having to pay for insurance or the employer mandate.
What the Gruber models had predicted is that the employers of young, healthy, low income employees would be dumped into the O'Care individual exchanges. Eliminating the employer mandate delayed the dumping until 2016, by which time premiums had risen to the point that the young and healthy were rejecting participation.
After someone had been continuously covered in a high risk pool, they are entitled to move to community rating.
in a normal insurance pool, 20% of the participants consume 80% of the benefits in any given period. What ObamaCare did was create synthetic pools where the high cost proportion became 50-60% and the remaining 40-50% proportion was inadequate to subsidize the people who were already sick.
If you have a normal pool and can slowly meter in the unhealthy, the system has time to equilibrate.
The individual market might very well be stable today but for the fact that Obama, for personal political benefit, interfered with the metering. During the summer of 2012, he declared that the employer mandate would be delayed from 2014 as the law required, to 2016. He did this because the job creation in 2012 was essentially all part time employment as the employers of unskilled workers were gearing up to avoid having to pay for insurance or the employer mandate.
What the Gruber models had predicted is that the employers of young, healthy, low income employees would be dumped into the O'Care individual exchanges. Eliminating the employer mandate delayed the dumping until 2016, by which time premiums had risen to the point that the young and healthy were rejecting participation.
1
Trump will deprive millions of his supporters of their health insurance resulting in higher medical costs, greater suffering, and unnecessary and premature deaths. And they will continue to maintain their slavish devotion to a morally corrupt, uncaring, and thoroughly selfish charlatan.
Trump bragged during his campaign "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters. It's like, incredible."
As the song says, "no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."
Trump bragged during his campaign "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters. It's like, incredible."
As the song says, "no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."
8
“To pass the House, any bill would need to find favor not just with the Freedom Caucus, but also with more moderate Republicans. It would also need to attract the support of nearly every Republican in the Senate to become law.” And one more time for those who weren’t paying attention the first time: “To pass the House, any bill would need to find favor not just with the Freedom Caucus, but also with more moderate Republicans. It would also need to attract the support of nearly every Republican in the Senate to become law.”
1
What? So now I'll be charged 5x more because of my age plus god knows how much more because of my pre-existing conditions? They really how to hurt a guy. Freedom to commit suicide? I hope that's included...
12
Great points!... but YOU know the answer: The Freedom Caucus also calls themselves "Pro-Life" in spite of the fact that they are in favor of the Death Penalty!...and, by the way... the "Freedom Caucus" is also against "assisted suicide" for terminally-ill patients. Their warped vision of Humanity includes forcing people terminally-ill people to suffer!
1
Your premiums will increase by 15% over what they would have been under ObamaCare. Your premiums are not going to increase five times. Calm down.
So, people who are (at this moment) healthy might be able to afford insurance and health care, but people who are sick, or become sick (that would be everyone, eventually) will not be able to afford either. Wow! Great plan. Even Trump voters should be able to understand this will be a disaster.
13
There will be no cancellations or re-rating when people get sick. As was the case for over 50% of the population before ObamaCare.
Death Panels = GOP (easy eh?)
16
Hospital emergency rooms will again be over run with indigent people, who will consider the ER their free medical care facility. These costs will, of course, be passed on to the tax payer and drive Federal Costs up or bankrupt many more regional hospitals serving mostly the rural poor. Middle income people, who currently decide that they are presently too healthy to buy health insurance will be forced into bankruptcy if bad luck or fate results in them getting cancer, or suffering a tragic accident. Other family members will be forced to lend financial and emotional support. Rates of Alzheimer's disease, diabetes, and other long term chronic and terminal diseases are increasing rapidly, particularly among the retiring Baby Boomers. Then there are the unforeseen issues such as the Zika virus and the potential need of life time care for babies born with multiple birth defects. The Republican proposals are riddled with many, Penny wise but pound foolish ideas.
23
You have not been paying attention. Ostensibly, Americans who had insurance were going to see their healthcare costs decline by $2500 per year because fewer people would be using ERs for primary care, since they now had insurance.
There has been a small reduction in ER usage since the Medicaid expansion and subsidized ObamaCare. So why didn't anyone see reductions in the cost of employer provided health insurance? Either premiums went up or deductibles and co-pays went up. There are very few if any people who experienced a reduction in their medical cost.
The reason for that is that the hospitals engaged in a reorganization plan, consolidated, reduced competition and raised the prices they charged to insurers. Rather than making a determination that they could reduce rates to insures since they had less uncompensated care, they raised prices.
The same thing happened with drug prices. Since more people had insurance , the drug companies raised their prices.
There has been a small reduction in ER usage since the Medicaid expansion and subsidized ObamaCare. So why didn't anyone see reductions in the cost of employer provided health insurance? Either premiums went up or deductibles and co-pays went up. There are very few if any people who experienced a reduction in their medical cost.
The reason for that is that the hospitals engaged in a reorganization plan, consolidated, reduced competition and raised the prices they charged to insurers. Rather than making a determination that they could reduce rates to insures since they had less uncompensated care, they raised prices.
The same thing happened with drug prices. Since more people had insurance , the drug companies raised their prices.
So basically, this new Republican plan allows someone with a pre-existing condition or cancer to buy a plan for more money than under ACA, but may not pay for drugs or treatment for that condition. Wow! Where do I sign up??
34
Republican healthcare:
If you get sick, die quick. (If you are healthy and do not need much healthcare, pay up anyway.)
If you get sick, die quick. (If you are healthy and do not need much healthcare, pay up anyway.)
16
If people with pre-existing conditions are put into a high-risk pool and everyone else gets "regular" insurance, then neither one is insurance. This was Ryan's plan; he complained that the majority of people in an insurance plan pay for the health expenses of a minority of the people in plan. But THAT is how insurance works. If you follow his plan and reduce the cost to the majority of people, where does the money for the high-risk patients come from? They want to stigmatize people with pre-existing conditions, and they think those people don't take care of themselves. What about multiple sclerosis? Not my fault. Tomorrow marks 34 years with the disease, and 17 years of very expensive medication that costs my annual salary. (Nothing was available when I was diagnosed.)
26
I was born with Barth Syndrome an X chromosome genetic disorder. That's not my fault. But it is my fault I want to continue breathing; for they don't see how that increases their profit. Make no mistake they care only about profit. In their amoral worldview profit is the highest good, indeed, the only good -- as long as it's their profit.
4
I understand and agree with you. I developed diabetes type 1 at the age of 54 (LADA). No, I did not get it because: I am obese, don't exercise, don't work and eat sugar. The point is, this is an AUTOIMMUNE disease, and there isn't a thing I can do about it. If they make pre-existing conditions a reason for insurers to reject, and put us into a high risk pool that may not cover services and prescriptions related to the pre-existing condition, then I will literally die. But the GOP doesn't really care, do they? After all, it's not their mother, father, son brother or siblings that will suffer.
3
People who are continuously insured are in the regular pool. They do not get cancelled or re-rated if they get sick.
People who are not continuously insured but are still healthy when they buy insurance are charged a surcharge proportional to the time period during which they were freeloading.
The high risk pools are a transitional category for those people who free ride until they get sick. After they are in the high risk pool for 3-5 years, they transition to the community rating pools. Their premiums/co-pays/deductibles are based on income plus wealth. Rich people do not get a free ride because they have arranged their finances to make their income low.
People who are not continuously insured but are still healthy when they buy insurance are charged a surcharge proportional to the time period during which they were freeloading.
The high risk pools are a transitional category for those people who free ride until they get sick. After they are in the high risk pool for 3-5 years, they transition to the community rating pools. Their premiums/co-pays/deductibles are based on income plus wealth. Rich people do not get a free ride because they have arranged their finances to make their income low.
Health insurance is not like auto insurance where you penalize the bad drivers by increasing their premium thus incentifying them to be better drivers. Increasing the healthcare costs by penalizing people with preexisting conditions or offering insurance with no real coverage will not make sick people well. It will reduce the costs for healthy people, but truly cause sick people to make a life or death decision. This is so wrong on many levels.
28
This sounds like a good plan. And it shouldn't even be controversial. All it says is that states get more flexibility to make these decisions. States are accountable to voters, and each state can reflect the will of those voters in their insurance regulation. The liberal states will have higher premiums and greater coverage. The conservative states will have lower premiums and less coverage. That's federalism. That makes sense.
3
All it says to me is that the 1% still get a $600 billion tax cut by throwing 24 million people off insurance, gutting Medicaid, raising costs for the elderly and, now, excluding pre-existing conditions.
7
No that is abdication of actually running a government of, by and for the people. I suppose you would extend this bit of logic to; " The liberal states would not have slaves and every person would be a person under the constitution The conservative states would have slaves and they would not be persons under the constitution."....That's federalism. That makes sense.
2
@DRS. You have a valid point of view as long as you don't consider healthcare a basic human right. Also, if you believe conservative states are entitled to foist their policy prescriptions on their entire populace in all cases. The concept of the tyranny of the majority comes to mind. And in many states their legislatures have been re-engineered via gerrymandering into bodies unrepresentative of their populations. Otherwise, your points are valid about allowing conservative states to downgrade their healthcare.
1
"An insurance market that did not include cancer care — or even any cancer patients — would be one where premiums for the remaining customers were much lower."
...and an auto insurance market that did not include liability coverage — or even cover anyone who has ever had a moving violation — would be one where premiums for the remaining customers were much lower.
When will Americans ever realize that, in many regards, medical insurance is similar to any other type of insurance. The greater the number of participants paying into the system, the lower the price is for each person. Without the individual health insurance mandate, we all pay for the health care of the most indigent patients anyway. But because of their greater use of emergency room services and because of the often advanced stage of their medical problems by the time they seek help, this shared cost is greater than it has to be.
...and an auto insurance market that did not include liability coverage — or even cover anyone who has ever had a moving violation — would be one where premiums for the remaining customers were much lower.
When will Americans ever realize that, in many regards, medical insurance is similar to any other type of insurance. The greater the number of participants paying into the system, the lower the price is for each person. Without the individual health insurance mandate, we all pay for the health care of the most indigent patients anyway. But because of their greater use of emergency room services and because of the often advanced stage of their medical problems by the time they seek help, this shared cost is greater than it has to be.
24
It's not about math. it's about hate, greed, pettiness, and stupidity.
1
States require liability insurance, which covers damages the owner of a car does to other people. Financers of auto also require coverage for damage done to the vehicle in order to increase the probability they will get paid if the car is damaged.
Auto insurers price the insurance commensurate to the risk. Someone who has multiple moving violations/accidents is going to pay more than someone who has no points on his license. Someone who buys a more expensive car pays more for insurance than someone who buys a cheaper car. Someone with higher deductibles pays lower premiums.
For it to be called insurance, people who have similar risks are charged similar premiums.
Making a bigger pool does not decrease the medical cost per person. The total medical cost is going to be similar is you have one pool for average health people and you put the sick uninsured into a separate pool. Under ObamaCare, you have a pool where the 50% who have average health are subsidizing the 50% who have expensive health costs.
ObamaCare could conceivably worked if you eliminated employer provided health insurance and put the 59% of the generally healthy people in the same pool as the 13% who were uninsured and the 3% who were in the individual market. But the ObamaCare exchange market expected the 3% in the individual market to subsidize the 13% who were uninsured. Of the 13%, a third (3%) were very costly.
Auto insurers price the insurance commensurate to the risk. Someone who has multiple moving violations/accidents is going to pay more than someone who has no points on his license. Someone who buys a more expensive car pays more for insurance than someone who buys a cheaper car. Someone with higher deductibles pays lower premiums.
For it to be called insurance, people who have similar risks are charged similar premiums.
Making a bigger pool does not decrease the medical cost per person. The total medical cost is going to be similar is you have one pool for average health people and you put the sick uninsured into a separate pool. Under ObamaCare, you have a pool where the 50% who have average health are subsidizing the 50% who have expensive health costs.
ObamaCare could conceivably worked if you eliminated employer provided health insurance and put the 59% of the generally healthy people in the same pool as the 13% who were uninsured and the 3% who were in the individual market. But the ObamaCare exchange market expected the 3% in the individual market to subsidize the 13% who were uninsured. Of the 13%, a third (3%) were very costly.
If insurance companies are required to take anyone with pre-existing conditions, why should anyone buy insurance when they are well. That is the crux of the problem. Under ACA it was supposed to be solved by penalties for those without insurance but the penalties were small and loopholes many such that there were no incentives for the young and healthy to buy insurance thus driving up the cost for everyone.
6
You don't understand how it worked. Person has a good job with insurance and gets cancer. Illness makes him lose that job and he can't afford COBRA payments, he will never be able to afford insurance again. He tries to make payments and is forced to declare bankruptcy when his treatments cost over 200,000. He still has cancer and can't get insurance or he is cured but can't get a job (because of ageism related to health care costs) He goes on Medicaid (if his state has expanded it). You get to pay more to cover his bankruptcy and then even more to cover his Medicaid. Or you have a preexisting condition from childhood and you can never get insured. We pay either way.
1
It was also very unfair that in order to maintain the 3:1 rule, the young and healthy had to pay $250/month for a policy when the expected cost of their care was $50/month in order to provide "affordable coverage" for 64 year olds of $750/month when the expected value of their care would have been $1200/month if they had average health but the old pool was heavily weighted with people who had expected value of their care at $2400.
For young people, the penalty was far less than the differential between the premiums and the expected value of the insurance. Add to that the fact that the penalty can be completely avoided by managing your withholding such that you are not due a tax refund at year end.
For young people, the penalty was far less than the differential between the premiums and the expected value of the insurance. Add to that the fact that the penalty can be completely avoided by managing your withholding such that you are not due a tax refund at year end.
So, let's see--I don't drink, smoke, or even drive. I eat as healthy. However, I was born with a genetic condition (my bad, should have picked healthier parents with out a genetic defect). So, therefore, I am refused affordable health care (you notice, I did not mention insurance, which is a scam when it comes to health care).
I went through a brush with cancer a short while ago (again, due to genetics). Am I supposed to just give up and die? No, I think not.
I recently read about a celebrity personal trainer--the picture of health: a vegan, regular gym attendee, perfect body weight, etc. So what happened--major heart attack, saved by two doctors at his gym and equipment designed to re-start the heart in an emergency. He mentioned in the interview that he should have thought more about the fact that his own mother died early from a heart attack. Bingo! Pre-existing condition. Any more questions about why we need to have everyone covered with affordable health care?
I went through a brush with cancer a short while ago (again, due to genetics). Am I supposed to just give up and die? No, I think not.
I recently read about a celebrity personal trainer--the picture of health: a vegan, regular gym attendee, perfect body weight, etc. So what happened--major heart attack, saved by two doctors at his gym and equipment designed to re-start the heart in an emergency. He mentioned in the interview that he should have thought more about the fact that his own mother died early from a heart attack. Bingo! Pre-existing condition. Any more questions about why we need to have everyone covered with affordable health care?
25
So you didnt pay for insurance till you needed it.
in the Regressive state of mind if you're not profitable to the corporation, yes, you should die. In systems where corporations have had complete control (fascism), they euthanizes those of us with genetic conditions. The current GOP has many who would gleefully do so again.
2
So this plan is affordable for healthy people who won't use insurance, but not affordable for sick people who need it? Really?
26
Hmm. Well, the right wing is now making real the 'death panels' they tried to sell (and did sell to the ignorant) as an objection to Obamacare. Those fictitious Death Panels got so much attention, apparently now they feel they have to make them real. In The Real Republican Freedom Caucus Death Panels, they will define you and anyone you love, who is not a perfect, healthy human being, as garbage to be thrown out with the rest of the trash. So, folks wanted Death Panels to be real.. and they are getting their wish. Well done Mr. Trump and Freedom Caucus, you've all proven once again just how low people will go to assure that the rich get richer, and that the lesser beings, the poor and underpaid, die as quickly and quietly as possible.
14
I don't believe in anything religious or afterlife-related, yet I'm convinced most of Congress has origins in the deepest bowels of Hell. How else to comprehend such a horrible regard for their fellow humans and their sufferings. Disgusting.
25
The only question is from which of Dante's rings did they emerge?
you dont need health care
if you get sick, just go to your nearest rich person and ask for help
he will gladly give you whatever you need
such is the infinite magnanimity of the rich
10
Yes, ask the billionaires Koch brothers to help if you get sick. The Koch's are against any form of health care plan and are funding efforts for a plain repeal of the ACA.
Obviously they don't have to worry about their own health care:
When David Koch got prostate cancer, he donated $100M to build the "David H. Koch Institute for Integrative Cancer Research at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology" to fight prostate cancer.
They expect you to be able to do the same if you get sick.
Obviously they don't have to worry about their own health care:
When David Koch got prostate cancer, he donated $100M to build the "David H. Koch Institute for Integrative Cancer Research at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology" to fight prostate cancer.
They expect you to be able to do the same if you get sick.
2
the american dream will becoming a nightmare of Kafkaesque proportions under trump
you are now getting a sneak preview of the titanic devastation to come
8
Will? Try already has....
1
It's as if the GOP believes if they can't keep us in pain they will lose the steam that drives their mean machine.
This is ourselves under pressure. Soon as we can alleviate these clogs in our heart, we have a chance of living the Roseto Experience. A small PA town where no matter how badly you ate or lazed about, you lived long and healthy with no anxiety of dying alone and uncared for. Old World wisdom we could use to cruise into the future like advancing humans.
Lasted as long as they didn't assimilate, so so much for that prescription.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-rock-positano/the-mystery-of-the-roseta...
This is ourselves under pressure. Soon as we can alleviate these clogs in our heart, we have a chance of living the Roseto Experience. A small PA town where no matter how badly you ate or lazed about, you lived long and healthy with no anxiety of dying alone and uncared for. Old World wisdom we could use to cruise into the future like advancing humans.
Lasted as long as they didn't assimilate, so so much for that prescription.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-rock-positano/the-mystery-of-the-roseta...
And if you thought this news item is disturbing, you need to also read the piece written by Margot a few days ago about how Obamacare is doing the vanishing trick in many states and will soon be gone starting next year if nothing is done about it.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/31/upshot/obamacare-choices-could-go-fro...
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/31/upshot/obamacare-choices-could-go-fro...
3
Let's remember that for Republicans only rich people have value and that the motto the Republicans have for people who have serious illnesses and are not rich is "Die Already." In their sick world Jesus is a market capitalist who loves the rich and disdains the poor. And they call their ideal world "freedom."
It makes sense to consider a national health services regime, similar to what is done in most European countries. The best insurance program in the U.S. would be a single-payer, national system, where the risks and costs of insurance and healthcare are spread over the entire U.S. population of 315 million people.
Sure, younger, healthy individuals would initially be paying more into a system which disproportionately benefits older people who have greater need for healthcare services. However, young people won't remain young forever. They will all grow old, grow sick, and die.
Offering health insurance policies to the young and healthy, while excluding the old, poor, and sick will guarantee high profits for insurance companies. So the choice we face is (a) do we want a system which benefits insurance company executives and their shareholders, or (b) a system run for people who need medical care and health services?
Trumpcare guarantees high profits for the insurance industry and generous contributions to Republican campaign coffers. For the elderly, poor, sick, and afflicted - who will probably be most of us in the fullness of time - Trump tells us all to "#Drop Dead!"
Sure, younger, healthy individuals would initially be paying more into a system which disproportionately benefits older people who have greater need for healthcare services. However, young people won't remain young forever. They will all grow old, grow sick, and die.
Offering health insurance policies to the young and healthy, while excluding the old, poor, and sick will guarantee high profits for insurance companies. So the choice we face is (a) do we want a system which benefits insurance company executives and their shareholders, or (b) a system run for people who need medical care and health services?
Trumpcare guarantees high profits for the insurance industry and generous contributions to Republican campaign coffers. For the elderly, poor, sick, and afflicted - who will probably be most of us in the fullness of time - Trump tells us all to "#Drop Dead!"
Congressional Republicans have no interest in improving our healthcare system. Their main goal is to remove government oversight, government funding, and, most importantly, any taxes that underpin coverage.
No matter what they say about 'freedom' and 'patient centered care', it's really about the money. Far more than absolutely anything else.
People can die in the streets and they won't care. God wouldn't punish the righteous, would he?
No matter what they say about 'freedom' and 'patient centered care', it's really about the money. Far more than absolutely anything else.
People can die in the streets and they won't care. God wouldn't punish the righteous, would he?
I do not understand the rationale for this so-called health proposal.
Whom does this help? What good is it? Is it fair?
Are the Republicans truly interested in assisting at the taxpayers' expense those who cannot well afford health care, or are they just going through the motions to appear as if they are doing something, without care about the content?
Please explain.
Whom does this help? What good is it? Is it fair?
Are the Republicans truly interested in assisting at the taxpayers' expense those who cannot well afford health care, or are they just going through the motions to appear as if they are doing something, without care about the content?
Please explain.
3
No. They are manifestly NOT interested in helping the American citizen. They couldn't care less if people who aren't rich enough to need no support from anyone just die and get on with it. And half the country - the half that needs help the very most! - continue voting for these rabid dogs and keeping them in office to do their wretched work. Unbelievable.
2
Peggy quote and I am a liberal.
"When all you want is the card in the wallet so when you’re strapped to the gurney in the emergency room, they’ll see it and they’ll say the word you want to hear: “Covered.” Then you can happily pass out.
People need simplicity and clarity. They deserve it. They’ll pay for it as best they can, a lot if they have to. But they need not to be jerked around anymore.
And that is what Congress doesn’t know."
"When all you want is the card in the wallet so when you’re strapped to the gurney in the emergency room, they’ll see it and they’ll say the word you want to hear: “Covered.” Then you can happily pass out.
People need simplicity and clarity. They deserve it. They’ll pay for it as best they can, a lot if they have to. But they need not to be jerked around anymore.
And that is what Congress doesn’t know."
2
How low can they go? Bottom line is they don't want people to have health insurance with government support. Medicare for all is looking more and more feasible once these bums are thrown out of office.
How about this;
NO premium insurance plan for everyone in American. That includes Trump supporter as well.
A universal coverage paid for by Federal government in parallel with national security(Defence), through Federal tax $$$.
No premium, no increase, no fuss.
And allow, Blue states to provide Cadillac plan to their citizens, if they can manage their finances better.
NO premium insurance plan for everyone in American. That includes Trump supporter as well.
A universal coverage paid for by Federal government in parallel with national security(Defence), through Federal tax $$$.
No premium, no increase, no fuss.
And allow, Blue states to provide Cadillac plan to their citizens, if they can manage their finances better.
3
Millions of Trump voters will be denied health insurance under such a proposal.
Cue 2018 and 2020: buh-bye, GOP.
Cue 2018 and 2020: buh-bye, GOP.
3
When are the Trump voters, among the poorest and sickest people in the country, going to realize they've been scammed? How many of their neighbors will have to die, lose their homes or file for bankruptcy before the true believers turn against the madman in the Oval Office?
11
im currently listening to $ 200, 000, 000 f 35s operate, at $ 35, 000 per hour
your single payer health care funding is being blown out their afterburners
1
This is much much worse than the last thing they came up with (hard to consider it a proposal, only thing it proposed was cutting people off healthcare). It will cost more and targets the most vulnerable. As if they could get any crueler.
2
The answer to this is campaign finance reform. Take away the Koch leverage over the average repub and we'd see a difference right away. The problem here is morally bankrupt people trying to fill up their coffers on 'freedom money'. We see you.
2
For a supposed Christian organization the so- called Freedom Caucus adheres to amazingly unChristian values: no love for their fellow man, no sense of charity whatever not even for children. Instead they are as vengeful as Pontius Pilate and would rather crucify the American public with their non-heathcare ideas. We must vote all of them out. Evil begets evil.
14
I can lower everyone's health care premiums in an instant:
1. Don't cover any prescription drugs. Big Pharma doesn't need your money anyway.
2. Don't cover any cancer treatments. If people want to smoke or eat bacon, then that's their problem.
3. Don't cover any mental health issues. How do we know they aren't faking it?
4. Don't cover anyone who has ever visited a doctor for anything other than a physical, and then only if they received a clean bill of health. You broke your leg in the past? You are clumsy, so you are likely to do that again. We can't afford to keep treating you.
5. Don't cover maternity care. The world is over-populated anyhow.
6. Institute "lifestyle panels". These are similar to the Obamacare "death panels", but in this case you have a jury of your peers determine if your "lifestyle" meets with their definition of "healthy". If you are overweight, if you don't eat what they think you should be eating, if your genetic testing comes back with a pre-disposition for an illness, then the "lifestyle panel" can determine if you are "worthy" of insurance.
1. Don't cover any prescription drugs. Big Pharma doesn't need your money anyway.
2. Don't cover any cancer treatments. If people want to smoke or eat bacon, then that's their problem.
3. Don't cover any mental health issues. How do we know they aren't faking it?
4. Don't cover anyone who has ever visited a doctor for anything other than a physical, and then only if they received a clean bill of health. You broke your leg in the past? You are clumsy, so you are likely to do that again. We can't afford to keep treating you.
5. Don't cover maternity care. The world is over-populated anyhow.
6. Institute "lifestyle panels". These are similar to the Obamacare "death panels", but in this case you have a jury of your peers determine if your "lifestyle" meets with their definition of "healthy". If you are overweight, if you don't eat what they think you should be eating, if your genetic testing comes back with a pre-disposition for an illness, then the "lifestyle panel" can determine if you are "worthy" of insurance.
Let's face it, our country is completely screwed up and getting worse. Our debt is out of control, our healthcare system is broken, and under Trump is about to be destroyed for all but the rich. As for them, they just keep getting richer and the rest of us are getting crushed. We need universal healthcare, A la Bernie Sanders. We also need to get our debt down. Both of these require smarter spending, spending cuts, and above all higher taxes. The GOP, per usual, is on the wrong side of these issues. Taxes need to be raised considerably on the top 1%, particularly on the top .1%. SS taxes need to be increased to include CPI increases. Healthcare taxes will also need to be added for both employee and employer. However, if Universal HC is "done right" it should be a net gain for all. We do have some very good examples from around the world to chose from, see Switzerland and French HC systems. Next, military spending needs to be reigned in. There are way too many useless big $ projects underway. This is just the start, but it is the only possible course if we are to survive in any civilized manner.
3
So let me get this straight: Insurance companies will basically be able to refuse providing coverage to their clients when they need it.
One helluva business model.
One helluva business model.
4
Does the "Freedom" caucus think that only Democrats get cancer? Because this health"care" plan of theirs is 100% political. And 110% inhumane.
4
A good way to rationalize the health care discussion is to require all federal employees, including Representatives and Senators, to participate in the same insurance market as their constituents.
4
The Republican foolishly incompetent never ceases to amaze me. Why keep beating up a dead horse, the Republican health bill, when the discussed provisions will make the bill even more unpalatable for the Republican moderates in the House and Senate? What is even more revealing is that this White House is so out of touch and incompetent and the Freedom Caucus is callously cruel to vulnerable Americans. The saying of "only in America" has never been so apt now.
4
I did not expect them to drop the effort, nor did I expect the effort to be this savagely barbaric.
Please do not be lulled into complacency, thinking this cannot happen.
Barring overwhelming press coverage and public outrage, it can and it will.
Please do not be lulled into complacency, thinking this cannot happen.
Barring overwhelming press coverage and public outrage, it can and it will.
13
It's clear that Republicans feel so emboldened by their base of hinterland anti-culture warriors that they needn't even pretend to support policies benefiting the middle class. Republicans speak of opportunity for individuals yet work tirelessly to enact policies that shackle those individuals to jobs in the hope that they may hold on to health insurance coverage without which they or their family members would die.
Republicans support a caste system of the healthy and the sick where providing health insurance is by design a redundancy and a safe bet for corporations to make money.
Republicans support a caste system of the healthy and the sick where providing health insurance is by design a redundancy and a safe bet for corporations to make money.
7
This will make opt-out state less competitive for employment. Anyone starting a new business and leaving employment based insurance behind will prefer a full coverage based-state. This is the problem with gerrymandering: locking in low quality pols like Meadows who advocate policies that will move his state further backwards.
9
I'd like each of the sponsors of this proposal to answer one question, honestly: If you or your spouse had had cancer, and you didn't have your deluxe congressional health care plan, would you buy insurance under these rules?
Everyone should have the exact same medical coverage that members of the so-called Freedom Caucus (I can think of far more accurate names for them) have for themselves and their families.
Put another way, the members of the Freedom Caucus and their entire families should be forced into the same plans that they have constructed for the rest of us.
Put another way, the members of the Freedom Caucus and their entire families should be forced into the same plans that they have constructed for the rest of us.
10
Then what's the purpose of insurance at all?
8
Why, to support the insurance industry and allow it to fleece the people with impunity, of course! That's what Republicans are there for!
3
It is incredible that the Republicans' own health proposals are going to kill off the very people that put them in office to begin with.
12
Single player seems the inevitable solution. We're slow getting there, but as Churchill said we'll finally do the right thing after trying everything else.
9
The only way you can have inclusion of pre-existing condition is through a national healthcare system like Medicare for all. Otherwise, the numbers don't add up.
5
In TrumpCare like Orwell's 1984 2+2=5
1
Finally a proposal mean spirited enough for Republicans everywhere to get behind. Well this is what our neighbors voted for I just hope they are the first ones to feel the pain of lost coverage and coverage costs beyond their means.
7
As the Republicans are so concerned with Freedom they should vote for the freedom to choose a Public Option.
12
Combine this with the Senate going with the "nuclear" option to force feed us their corporate capitalist loving, religious fanatic judge and we just might be able to see the train at the end of the tunnel that will kill whatever was left of our democracy.
4
Remember, the members of the House and Senate have good health care, they do not care about the rest of us.
9
Actually the ACA requires members of Congress must buy coverage through the DC exchange. So they are on Obamacare. I learned this 2 weeks ago. No wonder they want to get rid of it. They would never admit it works for them.
1
When I see or read about Conservative Republican policies and proposals, I can't help but think about their alignment with Christianity and wonder: How can they ignore the poor, the sick and the least fortunate of us?
It bewilders me to understand this 'conflict of moral interest' here. It is beyond hypocritical- it is basically insane. But then again that is the new normal here- what's wrong with me here?
It bewilders me to understand this 'conflict of moral interest' here. It is beyond hypocritical- it is basically insane. But then again that is the new normal here- what's wrong with me here?
11
The noise will continue as long as the health ins. co.'s contribute to Republican campaigns. Re-elect at all costs. Thousands died pre-ACA while not having ins. and history will repeat post-ACA.
One has to wonder what the biggest driver behind the repeal of the ACA has to be...my guess is that once it is gone they are eligible to participate once again in the Cadillac government employeee plans and will no longer have to get their health plans from either (i) their spouse's health plan (if he or she is otherwise employed); or (ii) on the ACA exchanges.
Congress is already "forced" to participate in the ACA, but I imagine they will remove that requirement from any replacement plan going forward. Otherwise they are just "working stiffs" like the rest of us.
Congress is already "forced" to participate in the ACA, but I imagine they will remove that requirement from any replacement plan going forward. Otherwise they are just "working stiffs" like the rest of us.
Mr. Meadows, give up your health insurance.
9
Looking forward to bitter Republicans systematically taking apart the ACA. If this didn't pass the first time, why would you take it personally and launch an "attack" to get it passed. Wouldn't that just indicate the support, both internally and nationally, just wasn't there?
Why is the possibility that the majority of America, Trump voters included, didn't want this bill to pass so totally inconceivable? Do lawmakers now believe they know better what their constitutes want than those people themselves? I mean, I know many do, but it just sounds so crazy to say out loud.
Why is the possibility that the majority of America, Trump voters included, didn't want this bill to pass so totally inconceivable? Do lawmakers now believe they know better what their constitutes want than those people themselves? I mean, I know many do, but it just sounds so crazy to say out loud.
3
"Freedom" to die young, uninsured and bankrupt. What next a law to pass on medical debt to your heirs?
6
What a crackerjack idea! Contact the Freedom Caucus; I'm sure that can be given serious consideration as a rider to the 'American Health Care Act,' along with abolishing the estate tax for those who shuffle off this mortal coil with more than $5 million in assets. Brilliant!
The sad thing is few members of today's Republican majority in Congress would understand that is intended to be satire - it could well be enacted.
The sad thing is few members of today's Republican majority in Congress would understand that is intended to be satire - it could well be enacted.
Before it was pulled, the ACHA was supported by only 17% of Americans. And yet they now are considering excluding one of the most popular provisions of Obamacare. Trump and the Republicans themselves are a gift going into the 2018 midterms.
I did not think it possible to make the GOP Wealth Care proposal any worse than it already was. Wow, these guys are geniuses!
2
It is as if the government, unable to rescind citizenship upon those who it considers undesirable, instead eliminates the benefit of having government.
2
Why I could never be a Republican, Reason No. 84,332,428,601,598:
First, try to take away health-care coverage from 24 million Americans. That benighted proposal having crashed and burned, come back with a proposal effectively to deny coverage for pre-existing conditions.
I'm reminded of Woody Allen's exasperated, classic remark in "Annie Hall": "Always the wrong answer. Always."
First, try to take away health-care coverage from 24 million Americans. That benighted proposal having crashed and burned, come back with a proposal effectively to deny coverage for pre-existing conditions.
I'm reminded of Woody Allen's exasperated, classic remark in "Annie Hall": "Always the wrong answer. Always."
7
So, the Freedom Caucus wants us to be able to spend $, and have the government spend money subsidizing policies that will not cover any real illness or injury. No surprise there. They hated the last repeal/replace bill because it actually still helped some people and they can't have that. They want the red states to be able to have their low/no wage people be sick and die with no assistance. They believe government is of and for the rich and everyone else has to pay since they won't and don't. Sick! Hopefully there are enough legislators who want to be re-elected that this albatross won't fly.
4
Yanking away coverage for pre-existing conditions would seriously traumatize most of the adult population of this country. The GOP is committing political suicide if they do this. I feel very optimistic now about 2018. Trauma and fear will trump ideology any day of the week.
13
My blood is boiling. I'm a cancer survivor, 20 years plus. When I was diagnosed and treated, I had excellent employee coverage. Still, I was not unaware of the costs, even co-pays added up. And I knew, when I examined those chemotherapy bills, the totals and the insurance payments, that costs vary widely depending on one's insurance plan and on whether one has insurance at all. Anyone who votes for this should be subject to sustained public humiliation.
21
Insurance is NOT the solution to providing people with access to affordable health care in this country.
Providing affordable health care is the solution to providing people with access to affordable health care.
The simplest, most straightforward way to accomplish this is to implement a single payer system. Doesn't have to be a public system, doesn't even have to be a not-for-profit system. But you can account for virtually ALL of the additional cost of the American health care system by looking at the expense of administering the hodge-podge of plans, the costs of for-profit hospitals, labs, etc., use of over-advertised medications etc.
Giving more people access to insurance is not going to fix those things. And until they are fixed, we aren't going to get control of the costs inherent in the system.
Single payer, please.
Providing affordable health care is the solution to providing people with access to affordable health care.
The simplest, most straightforward way to accomplish this is to implement a single payer system. Doesn't have to be a public system, doesn't even have to be a not-for-profit system. But you can account for virtually ALL of the additional cost of the American health care system by looking at the expense of administering the hodge-podge of plans, the costs of for-profit hospitals, labs, etc., use of over-advertised medications etc.
Giving more people access to insurance is not going to fix those things. And until they are fixed, we aren't going to get control of the costs inherent in the system.
Single payer, please.
15
Greediness and heartlessness abound. I really can't see any other motivations/explanations for suggesting health care policies that would ultimately be worthless for the very individuals that absolutely need coverage. Truly shameful. I would like to hear a rationale from these wealthy white guys who "got theirs" and now want to prevent others from having what they have.
If they believe America and Americans are so exceptional - why don't we already have first rate coverage for all Americans? May they never have to come to understand the awful cruelty of being denied health care when they most need it. Decent health care - is it really too much to ask? Heath care is a right not a privilege. Stop being so greedy and stingy. Stop hiding your greed behind the guise of keeping government out of health care based on misguided ideas about government overreach. These hard right Republicans are in the pockets of the insurance and pharmaceutical industries.
If they believe America and Americans are so exceptional - why don't we already have first rate coverage for all Americans? May they never have to come to understand the awful cruelty of being denied health care when they most need it. Decent health care - is it really too much to ask? Heath care is a right not a privilege. Stop being so greedy and stingy. Stop hiding your greed behind the guise of keeping government out of health care based on misguided ideas about government overreach. These hard right Republicans are in the pockets of the insurance and pharmaceutical industries.
20
Not everyone agrees with you. And you delegitimize whatever substance there is to your argument by demeaning the opposition as "white guys" as if someone's race and gender can be a negative attribute. A lot of us believe that healthcare is a service that you pay for like anything else. It has never been some special "right" in this country, and it's not something that the government should meddle in to this extent. Because you think everyone else should pay for your healthcare doesn't make it so.
2
DRS - Do you know what insurance pools are? If so, how can you argue that no one should pay for anyone's health care? We all pay for you to some extent or other, so why the double standard?
2
The previous proposal fell flat, in my opinion, not just because it was a plan that failed to fulfill Trump's promises, but because the Congressional Budget Office publically produced numbers regarding how many would lose their insurance, and what monumental tax breaks were given to the very wealthy. Couple those things with a very few astute news people who took the time to explain, to the public, that breaking up the essential benefits just shifted the costs, not lowered them. The public caught on and were packing town meetings expressing their disgust.
Now this type of plan will be pronounced as affordable and will allow more choice. The press and the CBO have an obligation to help the public understand how plan design (selectively choosing benefits) can cause Adverse Selection and yank us back in the 1990's regarding benefits and preexisting conditions.
Increased costs are another issue. The causes are extremely arcane as is health care in total. Certainly great amounts of money and very talented people lobbying plus billing techniques that are not understandable to most mortals as well an new technology and discoveries all add the costs.
However, for today, plans without a basic benefit package to level the playing field will just allow insurance companies to increase their balance sheets. They have very good actuaries.
Now this type of plan will be pronounced as affordable and will allow more choice. The press and the CBO have an obligation to help the public understand how plan design (selectively choosing benefits) can cause Adverse Selection and yank us back in the 1990's regarding benefits and preexisting conditions.
Increased costs are another issue. The causes are extremely arcane as is health care in total. Certainly great amounts of money and very talented people lobbying plus billing techniques that are not understandable to most mortals as well an new technology and discoveries all add the costs.
However, for today, plans without a basic benefit package to level the playing field will just allow insurance companies to increase their balance sheets. They have very good actuaries.
10
Correct. With Trumpcare 2, Republicans declare war on all Americans who ever had asthma, were pregnant or married to a woman who was pregnant, had cancer, had surgery, had treatment for a mental health disorder. That's 52 million Americans. Any Republican who votes to deprive Americans of health insurance and healthcare serves is a bad joke on all of us and should be voted out of office.
21
You left out overweight, high blood pressure, older (but under 65) and anyone with a workman's comp claim.
At first, I thought this story was a leftover April Fool's Day joke.
The last bill was DOA, if not officially in the House then certainly in the Senate. The term DOA more than strongly implies that something was originally "alive", whereas these "discussions" revolve around introducing legislation that substitutes an inanimate object - say a rock - for something that was once (at least technically) "alive". Probably less than 100 GOP members of the House would wind up supporting this proposal because to do so would be political suicide for the mid-terms, even in districts that are considered completely safe by the GOP, including some of the districts represented by members of the Freedom Caucus.
The last bill was DOA, if not officially in the House then certainly in the Senate. The term DOA more than strongly implies that something was originally "alive", whereas these "discussions" revolve around introducing legislation that substitutes an inanimate object - say a rock - for something that was once (at least technically) "alive". Probably less than 100 GOP members of the House would wind up supporting this proposal because to do so would be political suicide for the mid-terms, even in districts that are considered completely safe by the GOP, including some of the districts represented by members of the Freedom Caucus.
7
Just "floating" or "discussing" the idea, even if by the fringe Freedom Caucus and even if it has no chance of advancing, stains all Republicans and makes them more likely to be chum in next year's midterms.
As much as "repeal Obamacare" slogan sounds appealing to the GOP, it is not an emotional appeal. There are some tax savings for a few, but overall they are taking away from people who depend on health insurance. More than anything else, they are getting more citizens to register as Democrats and then go to the polls in 2018.
Better to form a coalition with Democrats and improve the system.
Better to form a coalition with Democrats and improve the system.
8
Instead of calling one side cruel, or the other side socialist, we should just boil this discussion down to the differing philosophies, & put it to the people to decide. Do we want to spread health care costs among the entire population, forcing those who are healthy or have made healthy life choices to pay higher costs to cover those on the other side of the equation, or not? It's really quite a simple question.
1
I don't smoke, drink, take risks like skydiving, road racing, etc.(I don't even drive a car, for that matter.) I was, however, born with a genetic condition, and had a brush with cancer in the last two years. How have I "chosen" an unhealthy lifestyle, but my pre-existing condition forces me to pay double or more for my health care? Get real. Pre-existing can happen anytime to anyone.
10
Wow, in what world do you live in. Our old system penalized the poor, or those in the "wrong gene pool" with familial genetic hx of asthma, cancer, etc you name it. (no, its not always life care choices that creates disease.)Those people with no insurance not only suffered from inadequate preventative care because they were "blue collar workers" they also were forced to get their care from hospital ER's where the care given is rightly costly because they treat emergency life threatening disease. Those expensive visits were paid for by all of us.
3
Of course, present healthy people should understand that at any moment they can be pushed other side of the equation without any prior notice or consent!! Cancer and other life threatening deceases does not need our consent or prior notice.
6
America truly is an exceptional country. We spend twice as much as other advanced nations do for health care, as a percentage of GDP. Access to care is a nightmare, and for many a serious illness means financial as well as devastation. Last but not least, life expectancy and infant mortality continue to fall behind.
Why we cannot devise and implement a rational system for delivery and funding of healthcare for all is beyond me... other than the fact our populace and politicians are exceptionally mean-spirited, stupid and self-destructive.
How many millions voted for Donald Trump because he assured them 'everyone will be covered, and it will be so great, you'll love it'? And how many will continue to slavishly worship the scoundrel, even after that turns out to be the big lie that ruins their lives?
Why we cannot devise and implement a rational system for delivery and funding of healthcare for all is beyond me... other than the fact our populace and politicians are exceptionally mean-spirited, stupid and self-destructive.
How many millions voted for Donald Trump because he assured them 'everyone will be covered, and it will be so great, you'll love it'? And how many will continue to slavishly worship the scoundrel, even after that turns out to be the big lie that ruins their lives?
18
how many billions slavishly worship jesus even though he has never done a thing for anyone
thats the nature of gullibility
As long as "health care" is a for-profit proposition we will fight this perverse strain of political posturing.
The solution is amply demonstrated for us all around the world; some better than others, but almost none as bad as the United States; pay more to get less...but stockholders and executives get a pretty profit off the suffering of others.
The solution is amply demonstrated for us all around the world; some better than others, but almost none as bad as the United States; pay more to get less...but stockholders and executives get a pretty profit off the suffering of others.
16
Interesting because this is the only part of the ACA that I would keep. The rest of it is garbage...convoluted collection of penalties and subsidies and handouts to the companies that helped write the law. The law and it's implementation, despite what supporters say, shows absolutely zero understanding of the needs of the most vulnerable citizens. That is, everything but the provisions for those with pre-existing conditions. These are the people who need government's help and this is a part of the law that actually helps people in real need. The rest of the law amounts to tinkering around the edges of a flawed health care system. I would be fine to rip the whole thing up and start over but a replacement MUST include a provision to help those with pre-existing conditions as this reflects common sense values that most Americans share.
4
I suspect, people in your camp have no clue how the insurance works!! "Spreading the health care costs among the entire population, healthy or unhealthy is the only way to reduce the cost for everyone" is the principle. It is selfish to expect best healthcare without shouldering the costs. If you want the insurance companies to cover the costs of pre-existing conditions of our fellow citizens, we the healthy people (mind you, cancer or other deadly deceases do not need our consent for attack!) must shoulder the burden. Otherwise when you and me need the help, we may not get any and will get kicked out of the pool, like it or not.
Really? So you wouldn't keep the insurance mandate then? So how do you propose to pay for all those sick people on insurance? Because they are the only people who will be paying for it. You think a young, healthy person wants to pay hundreds of dollars a month for insurance? So how would you pay for this "largess" you so "graciously" will allow?
They're at it again. This time they are trying to obfuscate — "Oh, you can have health care for less (it just doesn't cover anything). Or, you can have it for so much more you can't afford it."
How to fight this? The same way they fought "Obamacare," with simple (in their case simplistic) slogans that the "average American" can understand.
Get a bumper sticker that says, "TrumpCare: Pay More/Get Less.
How to fight this? The same way they fought "Obamacare," with simple (in their case simplistic) slogans that the "average American" can understand.
Get a bumper sticker that says, "TrumpCare: Pay More/Get Less.
21
At last count, there are 33 members who are members of the Freedom Caucus. And not one has a family member without a pre-existing condition? No diabetes, cancer, heart conditions, epilepsy in the lot? A rational conversation about health insurance with someone willing to dump family members into these high-risk pools just isn't going to happen.
14
Congress has special insurance, for life. Even if its Obamacare, cadillac its better than most have. They are not like us. Lifetime salary, too.
2
Before this goes any further, we need data on its impacts. I propose that those in Congress who vote to proceed with this idea should constitute the experimental group to determine whether the concept is viable. Those who want to continue insurance for those with pre-existing conditions would be the control group. I expect that the proponents of this new version of Trumpcare will quickly figure out that they will have no coverage for cancer, heart conditions and other chronic conditions, causing the notion to disappear before it is inflicted on the rest of us.
7
The Freedom Party is the Tea Party with a name change to make it more palpable.
The irony in pre-existing conditions is to ask yourself, "How many pre-existing conditions are there due to toxic chemicals everywhere in our lives?" I have allergies and live about 5 mi. from a coal plant (yes, here in Asheville tourist town). A suggestion was made years ago and I think studies were done linking autism to polluted rivers in the Toms River area of NJ. My ears are messed up due to useless surgeries performed by docs making a buck on my head. Flue shot, anyone? I've had a severe reaction to it as have friends. They're very limited in treating a specific small range of flues, so they're obviously peddle-pushed by the large pharm. lobby. What are the longterm effects of getting these? We'll never know.
Break it down and find the source of the pre-existing conditions. They're likely traceable to horrendous environmental factors.
The irony in pre-existing conditions is to ask yourself, "How many pre-existing conditions are there due to toxic chemicals everywhere in our lives?" I have allergies and live about 5 mi. from a coal plant (yes, here in Asheville tourist town). A suggestion was made years ago and I think studies were done linking autism to polluted rivers in the Toms River area of NJ. My ears are messed up due to useless surgeries performed by docs making a buck on my head. Flue shot, anyone? I've had a severe reaction to it as have friends. They're very limited in treating a specific small range of flues, so they're obviously peddle-pushed by the large pharm. lobby. What are the longterm effects of getting these? We'll never know.
Break it down and find the source of the pre-existing conditions. They're likely traceable to horrendous environmental factors.
5
I have a pre-existing condition. It's called "Life."
This is a variant on something my brother with AIDS used to say. "I have a sexually-transmitted, terminal condition. It's called Life."
He died in 1993, age 44. Thank goodness he was able to go on medical retirement with 75% of his salary and full medical coverage, even for AIDS. Back then, his last few years living with the disease cost about $100,000 a year.
This is a variant on something my brother with AIDS used to say. "I have a sexually-transmitted, terminal condition. It's called Life."
He died in 1993, age 44. Thank goodness he was able to go on medical retirement with 75% of his salary and full medical coverage, even for AIDS. Back then, his last few years living with the disease cost about $100,000 a year.
1
The opposition and resistance to a single payer system defies logic and comprehension. It's a verifiable fact it costs less with better results, The focus is on preventive care in order to have a healthier population and minimize major medical problems. Opponents label it socialized medicine at the same time they accept that they are protected by police, fire departments and drive on government built highways. These are things that government does for the benefit of all of us paid for by our taxes we pay.
Are the countries with single payer systems perfect? No but again less cost with better results. How are about our broken patchwork of medical care delivery here in the US, are any of those other countries citizens wanting to do away with it and descend to our American model?
The president wants to raise the defense departments budget by 51 billion dollars. How many clinics could be built with that money in Americas poorest counties delivering at least basic care to a population that doesn't know what a doctors office looks like.
Could at the very least someone explain how a health care system for designed for maximum profit is the best delivery system for America. I think not!
Are the countries with single payer systems perfect? No but again less cost with better results. How are about our broken patchwork of medical care delivery here in the US, are any of those other countries citizens wanting to do away with it and descend to our American model?
The president wants to raise the defense departments budget by 51 billion dollars. How many clinics could be built with that money in Americas poorest counties delivering at least basic care to a population that doesn't know what a doctors office looks like.
Could at the very least someone explain how a health care system for designed for maximum profit is the best delivery system for America. I think not!
31
The opposition and resistance to a single payer system defies logic and comprehension.
theres your mistake right there bob
you think you live in a logical country
you dont
1
Last year I retired to my wife's country Germany I pay a monthly equivalent to what I paid for Medicare Part B which also includes dental!
Those who drag out the old song about the wait times in socialized medicine, my answer is what about the wait times in the US for those who don't have insurance or can't afford treatments for a serious illness.
Hurry up an die!
Those who drag out the old song about the wait times in socialized medicine, my answer is what about the wait times in the US for those who don't have insurance or can't afford treatments for a serious illness.
Hurry up an die!
2
The Republicans, especially the ultra-right "Freedom (for the rich from taxes and laws) Caucus" of course support the Big Insurance lobby's wishes. They know that selling "health Insurance" only to people who aren't sick, haven't been seriously sick, are not old and certain to be sick, and to stop coverage if you become sick, is an immensely profitable business that will result in plenty of "choice" in the marketplace of Corporations wanting to share in the loot. Time for the vast majority of Republican voters to let their Congressmen and Senators know they can't "... fool them all the time" ...
16
What is wrong with these people? How will their proposal make healthcare more affordable and accessible?
13
The answer is simple. It won't be either more affordable or accessible...unless you're young and healthy. What's wrong with "these people"? They have been paid hundreds of thousands of dollars by the insurance companies. And hey, they earn an average $174,000/yr, so with their salaries, the money they get from big pharma, insruance companies and PACs, they have no financial worries. Maybe if donations from such entities were outlawed congress might sing a different tune. Follow the money.
We have become a mean country. And stupid.
This proves that the American version of Christianity is now dead.
The end game of full-on libertarianism, which is what the Freedom Caucus wants, is that the biggest bully on the block always wins. Ironic, that the people who won't believe evolution want us to return to a state of Darwinian survival.
This proves that the American version of Christianity is now dead.
The end game of full-on libertarianism, which is what the Freedom Caucus wants, is that the biggest bully on the block always wins. Ironic, that the people who won't believe evolution want us to return to a state of Darwinian survival.
79
america wont survive the 21st century intact
mark my words
1
Agreed. A Christian would never oppose abortion and then want the children to live in poverty (by not raising the minimum wage), without health care (as we see here), without the right to vote (as we have seen, again and again, by limiting laws, regulations, restricted time windows and locations), abused by the police (as we can see with Jeff Sessions trying to undo the controls on police), with no right to privacy (thanks to Trump), no protection for those that are old (trying to make old people pay 5 times as much as younger one, not doing anything to protect social security, trying to limit access to Medicaid), an so on. They are no more Christian than ISIS militants are Islam followers. It is the same old story: using religion to control the ignorant.
1
stupidity has consequences
sometime fatal
25
Of course costs will come down if the coverage is less. Let's just send everyone back to the ERs which are still overcrowded with people waiting for prescription renewals.
22
Here is an idea. Why doesn't Congress just farm out healthcare/insurance to AMAZON or WALMART or both. They seem to do a good job of planning, organizing, implementing, marketing and selling. I'd wager than in less than a year Jeff and his staff could do what the GOP, the Democrats, and all the other players (drug companies, hospitals, doctors, medical suppliers, insurance companies. etc...) can never do and do it cost effective and with better care than we have now. Oh well........one can dream.
I've said it before but I'll repeat it for posterity...let the Repubs repeal and replace Obamacare with the same benefits they enjoy (at the expense of the American taxpayer) and they will stop all this noise immediately. Next!
20
But they won't. That will never happen. So then what?
Mr. Meadows lives in a world where finely pressed and laundered shirts at $10/each paired with $150 silk ties and $1500 suits are the norm. Pity so many of us 'fellow' Americans don't live in that world.
Most of us live in a world where keeping up with the regular bills can be a challenge; where an extra $10,000 or so for medical treatment can be devastating. He wouldn't be bothered by it; pocket change to him. We don't have paid-for deluxe health insurance plans like his. Small businesses can't afford to offer them and regular people can't afford to buy them. So we get jack.
What is so appallingly bigoted about the right-wing republicans ongoing mission to rip the country apart is their professed beliefs. They claim to be pro-family, pro-life, and pro-religion. But they want to rip away any family-friendly policies, wreck the lives of those most in need ... all the while proselytizing about how good and just and righteous they are.
A poor single woman who finds herself in need of health care -- prenatal care or an abortion -- is an abomination and should be cast out of society according to their mantra. Let her figure it out. It's her own fault, even if she is the victim of "consensual rape." An old man who can't walk because of a stroke is denied ambulance service by the insurance company because they deem it "not necessary."
Compassion, offering a hand up to those in need, trying to take even one step in the other person's shoes is not convenient for them.
Most of us live in a world where keeping up with the regular bills can be a challenge; where an extra $10,000 or so for medical treatment can be devastating. He wouldn't be bothered by it; pocket change to him. We don't have paid-for deluxe health insurance plans like his. Small businesses can't afford to offer them and regular people can't afford to buy them. So we get jack.
What is so appallingly bigoted about the right-wing republicans ongoing mission to rip the country apart is their professed beliefs. They claim to be pro-family, pro-life, and pro-religion. But they want to rip away any family-friendly policies, wreck the lives of those most in need ... all the while proselytizing about how good and just and righteous they are.
A poor single woman who finds herself in need of health care -- prenatal care or an abortion -- is an abomination and should be cast out of society according to their mantra. Let her figure it out. It's her own fault, even if she is the victim of "consensual rape." An old man who can't walk because of a stroke is denied ambulance service by the insurance company because they deem it "not necessary."
Compassion, offering a hand up to those in need, trying to take even one step in the other person's shoes is not convenient for them.
41
Wow. Given that here in Florida we have the inestimable Rick Scott and one of the most corrupt - even by Republican standards - statehouses I am sure they would opt out of everything beneficial. Revolting.
Sounds like a plan Stalin would devise for a gulag.
32
The elimination of the provision for pre-existing conditions is tantamount to murder.
I don't see why the Republicans are wasting their time.
Just repeal the ACA and leave it at that. That, at least, would be honest.
Just repeal the ACA and leave it at that. That, at least, would be honest.
If you don't have a pre-existing condition and think this is going to be great for you, think again. When you do fall sick, Insurance companies will deny the claim claiming that the condition was pre-existing. This used to happen all the time in California, until the state barred insurance companies from selling insurance that did not cover pre-existing conditions.
28
It would be more honest for the Republicans to simply explain they are happy to have sick people die, so they can keep health industry profits up.
19
This is clearly repeal without replace.
9
Which is really what the Republicans have wanted all along.
Ready to go with whatever Trumped-up version they submit--so long as Congressional members are subject to every one of its provisions.
10
“We’re going to have insurance for everybody,” Trump said in an interview with The Washington Post. “There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can’t pay for it, you don’t get it. That’s not going to happen with us.”
“I was the first & only potential GOP candidate to state there will be no cuts to Social Security, Medicare & Medicaid”
“We don't want anyone who currently has insurance to not have insurance.”
“I am going to take care of everybody … Everybody’s going to be taken care of much better than they’re taken care of now.” More recently, Trump has promised that repeal will end with “a beautiful picture.”
16
These guys need to find something else to do. Now they are proposing a return to the old status quo in which sick people can't get insurance and if they do, they can't be sure it will cover what they need and won't be cancelled at the discretion of the insurance company. Anything that is acceptable to the Freedom Caucus has got to be bad for millions of Americans. I thought Trump might have figured that our by now.
10
We will go back to the time that health insurance was only for the healthy. Maybe the Republicans think we should turn to the church and out neighbors when we need a doctor. They can pray over us.
10
These congressmen should be required to drop their current policies and purchase new ones on the health exchange, should this pass.
11
The only thing the GOP is offering is a gift to the insurance companies. Their plan is to open government run "high risk pools" in each state. These pools take sick people off of insurance and into state run plans that have high premiums and high deductibles. When these were tried in the past, the standard of care was less than ideal and many states made you wait 3 to 6 months before you could file a claim. Further, they put caps on your care and they limited they types of treatments you could get. This is not an answer to the problem with healthcare in this country.
9
People are getting the gobermint they voted for, minus 3 million or so who didn't count.
2
Republican plan: Basically, Pay or Die.
11
Not sure why the GOP keeps messing around with these half-measures.
Just abolish company-paid health insurance and make everyone responsible for paying for their own coverage. Abolish EMTALA while you're at it and relieve doctors of that burdensome Hippocratic oath.
Yes, a few mostly poor folks will die, and yes, many in the middle class will loose all of their possessions and yes, there will be a substantial transfer of wealth, but it will be in good direction, that is, upward!
A small price to pay to enable the country to finally get to the promised land of unchained capitalism.
Just abolish company-paid health insurance and make everyone responsible for paying for their own coverage. Abolish EMTALA while you're at it and relieve doctors of that burdensome Hippocratic oath.
Yes, a few mostly poor folks will die, and yes, many in the middle class will loose all of their possessions and yes, there will be a substantial transfer of wealth, but it will be in good direction, that is, upward!
A small price to pay to enable the country to finally get to the promised land of unchained capitalism.
15
When a bunch of wealthy white males make the rules people suffer. How many of these men took time off from work to care for a sick child or parent? How many of them are acquainted with the true cost of medical care for those who are not born in privilege. They treat re-existing conditions like bad behavior. My daughter was "healthy" until the age of 16 when she began to show the symptoms of an autoimmune kidney disease. In the last 5 years she has been hospitalized multiple times and she deals with daily health issues. Thankfully she has been on our insurance and has had high quality medical care. She works hard to follow the plans outlined by her medical team, taking her medications on time, sticking to a low sodium diet and making time for her medical appointments. Despite her many challenges she will graduate from college in May. This young woman wants to get a job in a non-profit agency where she can help those in need. Her disease was not caused by bad behavior but by nature itself. I wish that those in government would spend time really getting to know what life is like for those living with chronic disease so that they could have more empathy for what pre-existing conditions truly means. Of course those with illnesses drive up the cost of insurance but decisions should not be based on cost alone.
17
Having birthed a child in the 1960's who developed a rare condition requiring repeated surgeries every two months throughout his childhood, I know too well the horror of having to deal with insufficiently regulated insurance companies. Being advised by a representative from financial services while your child is in surgery that he is no longer covered by your company's group plan is a nightmare. Indeed, the insurance company hadn't even allowed us the benefit of knowing we had been dropped.
Those who want the government out of healthcare and/or have grown-up in the age of COBRA, a government program that prevents such action by insurers, haven't experienced the catastrophic results of unbridled, greedy profit-driven insurers. Pre-existing and/or chronic conditions are a part of life that no one wants nor should they be punished for them. Corporate America cannot be counted on to provide insurance for those who need it. We need someone who carries a BIG stick protecting us. Individuals cannot do it themselves; we count on the government to carry that stick for us.
If the insurers are not willing to cover those with pre-existing and chronic conditions, it is time for a national, single payor healthcare plan. Is the government for the people or for the "personhood" of big business?
Healthcare is not an entitlement; it is a necessity—far more than a border wall, a travel ban, paying for the first family's multi-location security, or a tax break.
Those who want the government out of healthcare and/or have grown-up in the age of COBRA, a government program that prevents such action by insurers, haven't experienced the catastrophic results of unbridled, greedy profit-driven insurers. Pre-existing and/or chronic conditions are a part of life that no one wants nor should they be punished for them. Corporate America cannot be counted on to provide insurance for those who need it. We need someone who carries a BIG stick protecting us. Individuals cannot do it themselves; we count on the government to carry that stick for us.
If the insurers are not willing to cover those with pre-existing and chronic conditions, it is time for a national, single payor healthcare plan. Is the government for the people or for the "personhood" of big business?
Healthcare is not an entitlement; it is a necessity—far more than a border wall, a travel ban, paying for the first family's multi-location security, or a tax break.
40
Before you reach the death panel, Americans with pre-existing conditions, will have to use all of their savings and eventually lose their homes, retirement savings just as we did in the past. The poor will use the ER and then eventually we will all face the death panel. Our survivors will face higher life insurance premiums for the burial because so many will be making claims. This will be the fate for every American, if not today, then tomorrow. Relief will only come when a loved one passes and the family is forced to move on.
8
That is the dream of every last Republican. Let us pray they are the first ones to shuffle off this mortal coil.
1
So, politically, they could say they "repealed" Obamacare. But the states could continue just as they are. Nothing changes but they can say they kept their promise. There are those who are uninformed enough (or just plain dumb enough) to believe this.
I wonder about those waivers. There is a legislative initiative in California to introduce single payer. Colorado tried to put it on the ballot but it failed (it was expensive, especially for retirees who wouldn't get the benefit but would have paid the tax). What if these states band together and create a single payer? Keep the Federal subsidy money (that's how the waivers work.) Oregon and Washington could join. Maybe a progressive Midwestern state like Minnesota, too. That would make the risk pool large. And they could negotiate with drug manufacturers to drop prices, because they would be too large to ignore. Call it BlueCare.
We are already going to be two countries: one with progressive policies brought forth by its states, one with regressive policies. Let people still live in Kansas if they want to.
I wonder about those waivers. There is a legislative initiative in California to introduce single payer. Colorado tried to put it on the ballot but it failed (it was expensive, especially for retirees who wouldn't get the benefit but would have paid the tax). What if these states band together and create a single payer? Keep the Federal subsidy money (that's how the waivers work.) Oregon and Washington could join. Maybe a progressive Midwestern state like Minnesota, too. That would make the risk pool large. And they could negotiate with drug manufacturers to drop prices, because they would be too large to ignore. Call it BlueCare.
We are already going to be two countries: one with progressive policies brought forth by its states, one with regressive policies. Let people still live in Kansas if they want to.
5
I'm willing to bet that if some states did adopt single payer, they would see a lot of in-migration of folks from other states.
1
When I think of how this would affect my 33 year old daughter working on her PdD (destined for a rough job market, now living on the economic fringe) it makes me even more sickened by the lunatics in the "Freedom Caucus" and the White House.
She's lived a life (since birth) of cardiac intervention, both surgical and aortic angioplasty twice.. Her cardiac surgery happened when she was 5 months old. It's not a question of whether she'll need a valve replacement; only when.
I wonder how she and all people like her (those with any preexisting conditions) feel about the evil being proposed?
She's lived a life (since birth) of cardiac intervention, both surgical and aortic angioplasty twice.. Her cardiac surgery happened when she was 5 months old. It's not a question of whether she'll need a valve replacement; only when.
I wonder how she and all people like her (those with any preexisting conditions) feel about the evil being proposed?
15
Despicable! Really, just Despicable. Cheaper health care for the healthy to hide the fact that I doesn't cover you when you get old a sick. But it does accomplish a huge tax cut for rich people. No shame.
14
Just more proof that the republican healthcare alternative is and always has been 'choke, go broke, croak.'
11
Well...I hate to say "I told you so" to the millions of Trump voters (and people continuing to insist that a Trump administration is more inclusive; more efficient; less wasteful; less corrupt; more forward-thinking; more conscientious, etc.) It all seems laughable now because it is "opposite day" and everything that the Trump people were accusing Clinton of being seems to be so much truer than it might have been with a Clinton administration. The people who voted for Trump in droves (single, uneducated white males) don't think they will ever have health problems or need anything from the government like so many of us do. Just bear in mind that your government does not care about you or the air you breathe or the water you drink or the cars you drive. Because looking the other way is cheaper for business and so that is all that matters. My dad used to say "what's good for General Motors is good for the country and so it is these days. Those of us in the NY area knew all about Donald Trump; how he only did something not to take pleasure in helping people but to showboat and to take credit and tohumiliate the other guy. It is/was all about self-promotion and those of us who are familiar with him know him as nothing but a big blowhard and a bully. What an example for the future of our country, the young people and this sets a very BAD example about how to get ahead in life. Basically if you have money and like to throw your weight around, you can generally get your way.
8
Representative Meadows should put his death panel talk into action -- time for him to refuse his Cadillac government health insurance and buy some insurance for him and his family on his precious free market. Hope none of them have cancer!
9
These gyrations in GOP Health care schemes are butting against one major logical premise any way you look at it: "Health Care Provision cannot be fulfilled through the free market process and Government must intervene through subsidies to insure Human and Decent Health Care Provision". Any free market provision that selects who lives and who dies, as described here-in, would challenges not just the decency of the whole society but as well as the basic values of that society. ACA was a major advance to move away from that Darwinist aspect of the previous health care system that ignored the Health Care needs of more than 40 million of people. The nation as a whole has seen the major positive difference in the repudiation of that provision. Going back to that same provision would be a step backward no matter how it is covertly designed!!!
6
Aspirations to an interesting combination effect...I have brain cancer. The right would be fine with me not getting coverage, and hence no real opportunity to get even palliative care. But it also doesn't want to give me the opportunity to end my life in a humane way - like physician assisted suicide. So precisely configured to maximize my suffering. No care, no exit. Yes, healthcare is complicated! And the ratings mostly stink.
7
For much of government, all debates are solely about fundraising for re-election. If A proposes X, someone writes a check in support it and someone else writes a check in opposition. And they drag it out as long as possible.
Our Congress has long since stopped voting in the public interest. We have only campaign promises -- a flimsy fabric -- on which to base expectations.
Our Congress has long since stopped voting in the public interest. We have only campaign promises -- a flimsy fabric -- on which to base expectations.
11
congress does what lobbyists tell them to do
8