Ironic, isn't it, when the people in our country who can't stop talking about "freedom" align themselves with a Russian tyrant?
4
Good summary of past espionage cases involving Soviet Union/ US and the complexities to reveal (eventually) what really happened. After all, espionage is a game of smoke and mirrors.
If history serves as a guide, the Russian/Trump affair investigation will drag on for years without any conclusive result. The only hope is a random event of a Russian ' deep throat' coming out of the cold and presenting the ' smoking gun.'
More likely, Trump's future will be determined at the ballot box in the next election cycle of 2020.
If history serves as a guide, the Russian/Trump affair investigation will drag on for years without any conclusive result. The only hope is a random event of a Russian ' deep throat' coming out of the cold and presenting the ' smoking gun.'
More likely, Trump's future will be determined at the ballot box in the next election cycle of 2020.
3
There is so much smoke it is hard to breath! It is time to follow not only the electronic trail but the money trail. A subpoena of Donald Trumps taxes and the foreign entanglements they reveal could shorten this investigation tremendously. This is not a spy novel but what could be the fate of democracy and the balance of power in the world. Novels will be written about the choices of a great nation at the crossroads some day I am sure.
3
What's wrong with the following sentence?
"It began with evidence of a breach of the Democratic National Committee’s computers and has now evolved into a sprawling counterintelligence investigation to determine whether there was any coordination between members of Donald J. Trump’s presidential campaign staff and the Russian government, perhaps even influencing the 2016 election."
That's your article's lead paragraph, and the way it is phrased glosses over the possibility that any coordination may well extend not only to "members of Donald J. Trump's presidential campaign staff" but also to the president himself. That distinction is not insignificant. Your phrasing lets the president off the hook - and even James Comey did not do that in his recent congressional testimony.
Obviously choosing his words very carefully, Mr. Comey put it this way: “I’ve been authorized by the Department of Justice to confirm that the FBI ... is investigating the Russian government's efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election. That includes investigating the nature of any links between individuals associated with the Trump campaign and the Russian government, and whether there was any coordination between the campaign and Russia’s efforts.”
In other words, it’s the Trump campaign as a whole that is being looked at here, and that may well include Mr. Trump. For now, at least, The Times should not let it seem otherwise.
"It began with evidence of a breach of the Democratic National Committee’s computers and has now evolved into a sprawling counterintelligence investigation to determine whether there was any coordination between members of Donald J. Trump’s presidential campaign staff and the Russian government, perhaps even influencing the 2016 election."
That's your article's lead paragraph, and the way it is phrased glosses over the possibility that any coordination may well extend not only to "members of Donald J. Trump's presidential campaign staff" but also to the president himself. That distinction is not insignificant. Your phrasing lets the president off the hook - and even James Comey did not do that in his recent congressional testimony.
Obviously choosing his words very carefully, Mr. Comey put it this way: “I’ve been authorized by the Department of Justice to confirm that the FBI ... is investigating the Russian government's efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election. That includes investigating the nature of any links between individuals associated with the Trump campaign and the Russian government, and whether there was any coordination between the campaign and Russia’s efforts.”
In other words, it’s the Trump campaign as a whole that is being looked at here, and that may well include Mr. Trump. For now, at least, The Times should not let it seem otherwise.
4
In June 1972, another supposedly minor incident occurred. It began as a "third rate burglary" of the DNC HQ at the Watergate. Who knew?
Not the now celebrated Woodstein team. The reason in fact they were handed the story was because none of the Post's famed journalists wanted it, thinking it wouldn't amount to a hill of beans. Some hill, some beans.
As someone who has been kicking around long enough to know the difference between real and fake news, I will say there is much more smoke here than there was with Watergate.
Trump's conflicts of interest abound. On the domestic front, we have a host of smouldering fires ready to ignite at a moment's notice. But the big deal is on the international front. Nixon did try to prolong the Vietnam War until the election, and Reagan did work a backdoor deal over American hostages in Iran. Anyone who believes the hostages were released as Reagan took the oath of office needs to check their privileged news sources.
What lies before us makes those dubious international incidents pale by comparison. What is being alleged here goes beyond Nixon and Reagan, and perhaps even George W.'s preemptive war against Iraq's dictator. Evil though he was, Saddam was not guilty of a terrorist attack against the US. Dubya got a pass on ignorance. The circumstances surrounding these allegations against Trump make his predecessors crimes now seem like third-rate burglaries.
DD
Manhattan
Not the now celebrated Woodstein team. The reason in fact they were handed the story was because none of the Post's famed journalists wanted it, thinking it wouldn't amount to a hill of beans. Some hill, some beans.
As someone who has been kicking around long enough to know the difference between real and fake news, I will say there is much more smoke here than there was with Watergate.
Trump's conflicts of interest abound. On the domestic front, we have a host of smouldering fires ready to ignite at a moment's notice. But the big deal is on the international front. Nixon did try to prolong the Vietnam War until the election, and Reagan did work a backdoor deal over American hostages in Iran. Anyone who believes the hostages were released as Reagan took the oath of office needs to check their privileged news sources.
What lies before us makes those dubious international incidents pale by comparison. What is being alleged here goes beyond Nixon and Reagan, and perhaps even George W.'s preemptive war against Iraq's dictator. Evil though he was, Saddam was not guilty of a terrorist attack against the US. Dubya got a pass on ignorance. The circumstances surrounding these allegations against Trump make his predecessors crimes now seem like third-rate burglaries.
DD
Manhattan
7
Here's an important story to read (rec'd by another reader, Ann from Calif.)-
It was published just before Christmas of 2016 and is well-researched and written.
Go to the American Interest dot com and find "The Curious World of Donald Trump's Russia Connections."
Read this and then wonder why we don't yet have an independent prosecutor, the whole crew removed from the White House and are not yet gearing up for a re-do election for president/vice president???
It was published just before Christmas of 2016 and is well-researched and written.
Go to the American Interest dot com and find "The Curious World of Donald Trump's Russia Connections."
Read this and then wonder why we don't yet have an independent prosecutor, the whole crew removed from the White House and are not yet gearing up for a re-do election for president/vice president???
1
Now Ivanka Trump has a federal job! She should be investigated along with her husband in that case. These people do not belong in high office. They are not politicians and do not belong in our government. What gives?
2
Whilst this story is centered on the least obvious, when it comes to Trump and his circus, they are examples of the most obvious contravention of laws and accepted conventions in your country.
I cannot believe that he is still there ... what is wrong with the justice system in America? .. Has it also been compromised?
I only hope that the delay in removing this incompetent fool is down to your intelligence agencies creating an open and shut case, which, I hope, will result in jail terms, especially for those who have dabbled in treason.
And the kicker is that he and his "team" are in it for the money ... for greed.
Trump has trashed Americas reputation (even more) and made America the laughing stock of the world
I cannot believe that he is still there ... what is wrong with the justice system in America? .. Has it also been compromised?
I only hope that the delay in removing this incompetent fool is down to your intelligence agencies creating an open and shut case, which, I hope, will result in jail terms, especially for those who have dabbled in treason.
And the kicker is that he and his "team" are in it for the money ... for greed.
Trump has trashed Americas reputation (even more) and made America the laughing stock of the world
3
Circumstantial evidence of Trump's "Russia connection" is oozing everywhere. It's time the Republicans on both sides of the congress step up and call for an independent special prosecutor. Are they "patriots" or "Trumpets"?
5
We already know, at the very least, that Don Trump is a Russian puppet President by virtue of a wealth of public reporting, most notably and admirably defending our nation, this paper.
Credit when credit is due. Thanks New York Times.
Credit when credit is due. Thanks New York Times.
7
Perhaps one day a few decades from now we will learn that the KGB had kompromat on not only Trump of course but also on Ivanka, Jared Kushner, Sen McConnell, Reps Ryan and Nunes, and then all these truly bizarre events of 2016-17 will suddenly make sense.
4
In 1984 the US learned that the Soviets had compromised US anti-submarine defenses and forward deployed quiet attack submarines, thanks to their espionage efforts. One example of this was the anti-submarine warfare conducted in the Puget Sound region in December 1984. The ensuing crisis was a turning point in history, and lead to the rise of Gorbachev and the subsequent fall of the Soviet Union. The year of the spy was the US and Soviets cleaning house after that close brush with apocalypse.
5
I would like to be optimistic here. Aldrich Ames and Robert Hanssen were well-trained, highly competent spies. That was what made them so difficult to uncover. I don't see that as a problem here. Comey's testimony in the open hearing strongly suggested that the FBI already has a considerable amount of information, enough to hint at criminal investigations. Right now we seem to be in the early stages of the cover-up. If so, the cracks are already appearing.
4
The counter-intelligence aspect of Trumpgate (let's call 'em like we see 'um) is rather unique here, but I think the role of the Russians may be overstated. Moscow didn't seduce Trump, he's a willing partner. In a nutshell, why do the Republican Party leaders feel they can sell out the national interest for their own partisan interests -- repeatedly -- without the focus turning toward this clique's loyalty, honor, and -- frankly -- duplicity.
Trump 2016?
How about Reagan's 1980 footsy with the Iranians to hold up release of the embassy hostages in order to keep the stink on Carter instead of allowing Carter to bring the hostages home?
Then there's Nixon's similar 1968 intervention with the North Vietnamese to wait for some sort of better deal with him as prez after the election?
It is a paradoxical irony indeed that the party most obsessed with duty, honor, citizenship, and country is the one that continues to find itself in bed with foreigners to the detriment of US national interests. Always carrying on about how the Dems are "weak," it's a national tragedy that so many who would be inflamed by spying should really focus instead on the treachery of treasonous partisans within our own ruling party.
Trump 2016?
How about Reagan's 1980 footsy with the Iranians to hold up release of the embassy hostages in order to keep the stink on Carter instead of allowing Carter to bring the hostages home?
Then there's Nixon's similar 1968 intervention with the North Vietnamese to wait for some sort of better deal with him as prez after the election?
It is a paradoxical irony indeed that the party most obsessed with duty, honor, citizenship, and country is the one that continues to find itself in bed with foreigners to the detriment of US national interests. Always carrying on about how the Dems are "weak," it's a national tragedy that so many who would be inflamed by spying should really focus instead on the treachery of treasonous partisans within our own ruling party.
16
I, too, enjoyed the Hans Christian Anderson fairy tales in my infancy days.
1
"Frequently, the damage assessment reports remain classified, and the American public is never told how the story really ends."
Which is exactly what happened with JFK assassination. We will never be told that an 'ally' was behind it.
Which is exactly what happened with JFK assassination. We will never be told that an 'ally' was behind it.
This is really kind of pathetic.
We know that this "investigation" has been going on for nine months.
The NY Times reported on Jan 20 that the Trump campaign had been wiretapped but that no evidence of wrongdoing had been found.
Three weeks ago, ex DNI Clapper said he had looked at the gathered information and seen no evidence of collusion or wrong-doing.
If they have been looking for nine months with all of the resources of the FBI, NSA, etc etc and haven't found anything, they aren't going to find anything.
And finally, if they had found anything it would have already leaked by now.
We know that this "investigation" has been going on for nine months.
The NY Times reported on Jan 20 that the Trump campaign had been wiretapped but that no evidence of wrongdoing had been found.
Three weeks ago, ex DNI Clapper said he had looked at the gathered information and seen no evidence of collusion or wrong-doing.
If they have been looking for nine months with all of the resources of the FBI, NSA, etc etc and haven't found anything, they aren't going to find anything.
And finally, if they had found anything it would have already leaked by now.
4
The NYT reported no such thing on Jan. 20. Read the article for yourself: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/19/us/politics/trump-russia-associates-i...
The headline is "Intercepted Russian Communications Part of Inquiry Into Trump Associates." Nowhere does it say that the campaign was wiretapped, let alone that there was no evidence of wrongdoing.
The headline is "Intercepted Russian Communications Part of Inquiry Into Trump Associates." Nowhere does it say that the campaign was wiretapped, let alone that there was no evidence of wrongdoing.
14
I don't think you read that Jan 20 article very carefully.
12
Almost as good as the NYT- NYT readers and commenters.
1
I love this "real spy stuff", it's a distraction from game show host machinations… and eventually, after a week of r & r, when one returns his gaze to current events and reviews what has transpired in the preceding week, the guy with the big Boner for macho Pootie statement's and actions become an entertainment in init (?!) itself, a novelette of sorts, to be savored with relish as the next story in history. The Canadians will have a lot of good funny stories to read about us in the meantime. Dictation by Sir, almost steaks and miss spellings are his
If you want to know what's going on then let Edward Snowden back into your country.
Edward Snowden was careful not to put the USA at risk and after watching the TV documentary, Citizenfour, I think his concerns were patriotic and genuine for citizen joe blogs.
Both the media and Edward Snowden were careful not to print anything that would jeopardise the USA nation.
Edward Snowden has the experience to help work with USA government to improve the system. Maybe start up a new branch of investigation that investigates politicans. Governments employ hackers to catch hackers so Edward Snowden would be great for investigating government employees.
Edward Snowden was careful not to put the USA at risk and after watching the TV documentary, Citizenfour, I think his concerns were patriotic and genuine for citizen joe blogs.
Both the media and Edward Snowden were careful not to print anything that would jeopardise the USA nation.
Edward Snowden has the experience to help work with USA government to improve the system. Maybe start up a new branch of investigation that investigates politicans. Governments employ hackers to catch hackers so Edward Snowden would be great for investigating government employees.
3
Snowden, already in self-imposed exile in Moscow for several years, has shown what his "experience" is all about.
He's no hero.
He's no hero.
5
Snowden defected to Russia. One wonders whether they'd let him leave; maybe they've got all the info they want from him.
2
Snowdon exposed a huge amount of sensitive material. He was not careful. He did not care about the US. If he comes back, he will be tried for treason.
I am deeply troubled by the "patriots" who hate America. Let's make it better, of course, but we are blessed to live here.
I am deeply troubled by the "patriots" who hate America. Let's make it better, of course, but we are blessed to live here.
2
Correction four Sir(i) in previous statement: "in init", should be changed to "in love"
After being totally immersed in Trump/Russia reporting for months, I am still stunned that we are talking about the likely collusion between our current president and his campaign staff and Russian cyber attacks that successfully influenced an American election. The claims would be easy to dismiss if the Trump administration weren't doing everything in its power to block the investigation from continuing.
34
Bob:
"The claims would be easy to dismiss..."
And, yet, if the allegations against Trump and/or associates were so clear cut and egregious, those claims should be equally easy to prove.
So far, all we have is a multi-agency investigation ending in January that indicated there were no ties between the Trump campaign and Russians, according to James Clapper.
"The claims would be easy to dismiss..."
And, yet, if the allegations against Trump and/or associates were so clear cut and egregious, those claims should be equally easy to prove.
So far, all we have is a multi-agency investigation ending in January that indicated there were no ties between the Trump campaign and Russians, according to James Clapper.
4
The claims would be easy to dismiss if the Trump administration weren't doing everything in its power to block the investigation from continuing.
=================
What has this administration done to block the investigation? Nothing.
Actually, a number of people who have been smeared by these allegations have volunteered to testify to Congress.
=================
What has this administration done to block the investigation? Nothing.
Actually, a number of people who have been smeared by these allegations have volunteered to testify to Congress.
3
John, these things take time, and the fact that open-and-shut proof has not yet been released to the public indicates nothing. Heck, the real investigations haven't even started yet.
3
Is it better or worse that state-sponsored attacks on our democracy are inspired by efforts to launder ill-gotten gains or by communist ideology? Either way, they aim to subvert our democracy. Either way, they use all the tools of the state, tools which have been developed through years of experience.
I agree with commenters here that "Trump Inc." is, more likely than not, a massive money laundering operation that works primarily, but not exclusively, with Russian oligarchs. It was, I suppose, inevitable that such vast wealth would ultimately be used to usurp political power--particularly in the wake of Citizens United.
But I bet they wish they hadn't chosen someone so stupid to lead the charge.
I agree with commenters here that "Trump Inc." is, more likely than not, a massive money laundering operation that works primarily, but not exclusively, with Russian oligarchs. It was, I suppose, inevitable that such vast wealth would ultimately be used to usurp political power--particularly in the wake of Citizens United.
But I bet they wish they hadn't chosen someone so stupid to lead the charge.
14
It actually does not matter if the Russian meddling helped Trump win or not. All that matters is whether or not he sought aid or colluded in the effort. Even if he lost the election he would be still be guilty of many crimes against the United States.
18
Wow, talk about apples and oranges. On one hand, you had Americans who actually gave top secret information to the enemy and were ultimately responsible for the deaths of people working for our country, and, on the other, you have a political candidate who had occasionally expressed friendliness toward a (fairly despicable) foreign leader and a willingness to improve the relationship between our two nuclear-armed countries, and who has had some aides who have had business and political contacts with high-level Russians.
Sure, your article is supposed to be about the similar challenges faced in these different sets of investigations, but the effect of it (which I can probably assume was intentional) to the casual reader is to create a kind of moral equivalence between the actual high-treason crimes committed decades ago and the actual and alleged contacts between Trump's people and the Russians during his political campaign (which of course is something which should be investigated), of which the evidence so far indicates no criminal activity.
OK, OK – we get it. You hate Trump, and you need to provide daily red-meat to your legions of readers who share your antipathy. I don't like him either, but you're making yourself look ridiculous with these kind of articles.
Sure, your article is supposed to be about the similar challenges faced in these different sets of investigations, but the effect of it (which I can probably assume was intentional) to the casual reader is to create a kind of moral equivalence between the actual high-treason crimes committed decades ago and the actual and alleged contacts between Trump's people and the Russians during his political campaign (which of course is something which should be investigated), of which the evidence so far indicates no criminal activity.
OK, OK – we get it. You hate Trump, and you need to provide daily red-meat to your legions of readers who share your antipathy. I don't like him either, but you're making yourself look ridiculous with these kind of articles.
7
I have been a faithful reader of the NYT for over 25 years. Even though I often disagreed with some of its editorial policies, I always regarded the NYT as an authoritative, dependable reporter of the facts, which made an effort to be somewhat objective. Now the NYT editors and reporters have given up all pretence of objectivity, responsibility, fair play, or common sense. They seem to have lost their minds and been caught up in leftist ideological frenzy. I no longer trust their reporting on domestic or international affairs, which is a terrible loss. At least I still have the London Times and the Daily Telegraph, which have kept their British calm.
2
You miss the point. This isn't about hate. It is about disclosure
Because of the obstructionism of the Trump WH, the nation is unable to get the information or answers that would prove, or disprove, your assertion that this is "apples and oranges.")
If they have nothing to hide, why all the lies? the non-disclosure" the secrecy ?
Methinks the WH doth protest way too much.
Because of the obstructionism of the Trump WH, the nation is unable to get the information or answers that would prove, or disprove, your assertion that this is "apples and oranges.")
If they have nothing to hide, why all the lies? the non-disclosure" the secrecy ?
Methinks the WH doth protest way too much.
8
These two topics are only "apples and oranges" because we are at the end of the 1985 espionage cases and at the beginning of the 2016 espionage cases.
It's way too early to conclude that the Trump campaign's frequent dealings with Russian government agents are entirely innocent. That's one of the main points of this article: it takes years for these cases to unfold.
It's way too early to conclude that the Trump campaign's frequent dealings with Russian government agents are entirely innocent. That's one of the main points of this article: it takes years for these cases to unfold.
7
From the article:
"the Trump-Russia case may not be cracked"
Yes, but most likely, because there is actually no case, and not, because of bureaucratic investigators, as this totally biased article suggests.
Yes, Trump is a thorough going swine, but there is not an iota of evidence, that HRC lost the election due to any kind of Trump/Putin plot.
Engineers tell us the best explanation is always the simplest explanation. The byzantine Trump/Putin theory is laughable, since everyone fully understands that HRC was a very bad politician who has no appeal to the broad masses of the American Electorate.
HRC concentrated on the seaboard areas where she was strong due to the powerful Democratic party machine. That was a senseless strategy, which landed her, both a useless popular vote win, and a one-way ticket to oblivion.
If you want to investigate somebody, investigate those who were giving HRC political advice. Who knows - maybe real "spy" is Anthony Weiner? It's an idea, that is no more ridiculous, than the Trump/Putin conspiracy theory endlessly hammered by the NY Times.
The Times needs to stop these silly articles, and concentrate on the massive damage that Trump is now doing to our nation.
"the Trump-Russia case may not be cracked"
Yes, but most likely, because there is actually no case, and not, because of bureaucratic investigators, as this totally biased article suggests.
Yes, Trump is a thorough going swine, but there is not an iota of evidence, that HRC lost the election due to any kind of Trump/Putin plot.
Engineers tell us the best explanation is always the simplest explanation. The byzantine Trump/Putin theory is laughable, since everyone fully understands that HRC was a very bad politician who has no appeal to the broad masses of the American Electorate.
HRC concentrated on the seaboard areas where she was strong due to the powerful Democratic party machine. That was a senseless strategy, which landed her, both a useless popular vote win, and a one-way ticket to oblivion.
If you want to investigate somebody, investigate those who were giving HRC political advice. Who knows - maybe real "spy" is Anthony Weiner? It's an idea, that is no more ridiculous, than the Trump/Putin conspiracy theory endlessly hammered by the NY Times.
The Times needs to stop these silly articles, and concentrate on the massive damage that Trump is now doing to our nation.
6
The question is not whether Clinton "lost the election due to any kind of Trump/Putin plot". The question is not whether the meddling in our election by Russia (which is not at issue - they did meddle), it's whether or not the Trump campaign assisted, colluded or cooperated with the Russian government in their meddling. Criminal doings, like hacking computers or colluding with hackers, don't magically become un-criminal if they don't succeed in their objective.
9
If by "meddle", you mean put out propaganda - yes, they did. Just as we have put out propaganda in about 80 foreign elections since 1946. This is simply a normal thing for nations to do.
This whole "investigation" is the Democratic Party counterpoise to the Trump "birther" attacks on Obama; just pure nonsense, picked up on, in each case, by partisan media.
The real threat to America, is not imaginary coordination with Putin, but the illegal, and commonly done, coordination by our politicians with the 501(c)(4) organizations supporting them. Nobody in either party, nor our national media, seem to have the slightest interest in investigating that.
This whole "investigation" is the Democratic Party counterpoise to the Trump "birther" attacks on Obama; just pure nonsense, picked up on, in each case, by partisan media.
The real threat to America, is not imaginary coordination with Putin, but the illegal, and commonly done, coordination by our politicians with the 501(c)(4) organizations supporting them. Nobody in either party, nor our national media, seem to have the slightest interest in investigating that.
Peter, you can't reduce Russia's meddling in the election to mere "propaganda." What about the criminal hacking, among other attacks?
And does it really matter, from a U.S. national security perspective, whether the U.S. has ever done something similar to another country? Should we just lower our guard and accept every assault we've ever dished out, because it pleases the (perverted, treason-smelling) sense of fairness possessed by the Trump campaign?
And does it really matter, from a U.S. national security perspective, whether the U.S. has ever done something similar to another country? Should we just lower our guard and accept every assault we've ever dished out, because it pleases the (perverted, treason-smelling) sense of fairness possessed by the Trump campaign?
5
Trump's decadent core loves the fact that he lies, cheats, pays no tax, never read anything, ogles teen women, and has a cloned family of peroxide blondes.
What they might appreciate less is that he was making deals with the State Bank of Putin to take himself out of bankruptcy and to re-float Kremlin credit lines. For that reason, if for no other, the people of America must keep asking the Russo-Trump questions and say Kremlin ten times a day.
What they might appreciate less is that he was making deals with the State Bank of Putin to take himself out of bankruptcy and to re-float Kremlin credit lines. For that reason, if for no other, the people of America must keep asking the Russo-Trump questions and say Kremlin ten times a day.
14
I'll all for getting rid of Trump but going to the ancient worn out tale of the Russian bogeyman is the wrong way to do it., Impeach the man by getting sufficient New Democratic legislators in 2018. The Dems need a new platform in order to win : jobs, single payer healthcare , infrastructure problem and ending its neo-liberal corporate agenda.
As far as Trump the Russian spy is concerned- the case is built upon a Hillary Clinton excuse for her loss to Trump - Russian hacking. But this is a evidence free ideological assertion. And it could take years to ever get to the bottom of of the charge. Better to beat Trump in 2018 at the ballot box.
As far as Trump the Russian spy is concerned- the case is built upon a Hillary Clinton excuse for her loss to Trump - Russian hacking. But this is a evidence free ideological assertion. And it could take years to ever get to the bottom of of the charge. Better to beat Trump in 2018 at the ballot box.
6
Haitch-- don't agree with impeaching Trump but you are spot on re the Russian story. There is no there there.
4
worshipping false dichotomies is a sure way to lose to fascists.
for example. there is not a dichotomy between learning about Russian interference in the US election and democrats showing a spine and running to win in 2018. Apple pie AND ice cream!
and why would any sane American make either about Hillary? who cares about her and her royal ineptness? a more foolishly contingent role player I have never seen.
for example. there is not a dichotomy between learning about Russian interference in the US election and democrats showing a spine and running to win in 2018. Apple pie AND ice cream!
and why would any sane American make either about Hillary? who cares about her and her royal ineptness? a more foolishly contingent role player I have never seen.
We don't actually know yet that there is no there there. That's why there are investigations. If the investigations are thorough and it does turn out that there was no there there, well and good.
2
I lived behind the "Iron Curtain". And the signs are all there.
They have been for months. But now it seems, Americans, so unfamiliar with these tactics, and willing to share their love for Russia & Vladimir Putin with Donald Trump, are slowly starting to realize there's more to this "game" than they thought.
Except this is not a novel. This is real.
And the stakes are much higher.
They have been for months. But now it seems, Americans, so unfamiliar with these tactics, and willing to share their love for Russia & Vladimir Putin with Donald Trump, are slowly starting to realize there's more to this "game" than they thought.
Except this is not a novel. This is real.
And the stakes are much higher.
37
This essay makes for interesting reading just like "Spy v. Spy" in Mad magazine from many years ago. But what is happening in the GOP and the White House is neither interesting nor funny; it is dead serious, and seriously wrong.
10
So, that leaves us with a list of possible double agents from Trump on down, and these days, I suspect, one need NOT travel to Russia to become one. comey certainly comes to mind with his incredible performance on Clinton's emails, but trump is indebted to Russia on many scores as is his family who are now also likely "hostages" if something goes south.
The nation is truly at stake here and perhaps the direction of the entire world since what we do and say seems to have become a model for opthers. It seems it really remains to the GOP to flush out the mole(s), get rid of Nunes who is likely a traitor--at least in the sense that he is beholden to grumpy and cannot be impartial. we will see if party really IS what they stand for or whether they understand the text of the Pledge of Allegiance at all.
The nation is truly at stake here and perhaps the direction of the entire world since what we do and say seems to have become a model for opthers. It seems it really remains to the GOP to flush out the mole(s), get rid of Nunes who is likely a traitor--at least in the sense that he is beholden to grumpy and cannot be impartial. we will see if party really IS what they stand for or whether they understand the text of the Pledge of Allegiance at all.
4
These boys ( looking at you, Nunes) REALLY think they're living in a Tom Clancy novel. Please, just grow up. Seriously.
3
And who are the people who are right, Ted?
Sorry. This election's had me on edge too long.
1
“Devolution of a Scandal”
By the NY Times
Chapter 1 - Trump is a puppet of Putin.
Chapter 2 - Trump’s key advisors are puppets of Putin.
Chapter 3 - Trump’s key advisors have links to oligarchs who know Putin.
Chapter 4 - Some minor Trump acquaintances once met oligarchs who know Putin.
Where will this thriller end? (Spoiler alert)
Chapter 5 - Investigations find that Trump had nothing to do with the Russians. The Trump campaign and Russian diplomats had legal, perfunctory communications, but no collusion.
Trite cliffhanger ending revealed by this article: Although a thorough investigation revealed absolutely nothing, there could be nefarious links that will only become apparent after many years. Stay tuned, and buy our newspaper in the meantime.
By the NY Times
Chapter 1 - Trump is a puppet of Putin.
Chapter 2 - Trump’s key advisors are puppets of Putin.
Chapter 3 - Trump’s key advisors have links to oligarchs who know Putin.
Chapter 4 - Some minor Trump acquaintances once met oligarchs who know Putin.
Where will this thriller end? (Spoiler alert)
Chapter 5 - Investigations find that Trump had nothing to do with the Russians. The Trump campaign and Russian diplomats had legal, perfunctory communications, but no collusion.
Trite cliffhanger ending revealed by this article: Although a thorough investigation revealed absolutely nothing, there could be nefarious links that will only become apparent after many years. Stay tuned, and buy our newspaper in the meantime.
10
You may hope, but I will be watching his impeachment intently.
5
Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Jerks...
Comrade Donald LeTrump...
Comrade Donald LeTrump...
11
Mirrors 1985?
Stunningly inaccurate into plain lie.
The article thesis seems to be that the tradecraft process takes a long while to find out how the US is being betrayed and by who.
Even when the president and speaker of the house and the head of the relevant house committee are not working non stop on a cover up.
Which the said three and others are now doing in the name of their right to use Statee power to do what they want.
Stunningly inaccurate into plain lie.
The article thesis seems to be that the tradecraft process takes a long while to find out how the US is being betrayed and by who.
Even when the president and speaker of the house and the head of the relevant house committee are not working non stop on a cover up.
Which the said three and others are now doing in the name of their right to use Statee power to do what they want.
3
The espionage business certainly has its ugly side---especially among those in counterintelligence who seem to be more susceptible to paranoia. I had long been a detractor of espionage not just because of its tendency to corrupt and compromise the weak and the greedy, but because it seemed to me its colossal costs, financial, moral, diplomatic and otherwise, seemed unjustifiable. However, I was convinced by Markus Wolf, former head of East Germany's foreign intelligence service (HVA) that even the lowliest, dirtiest spies of the Cold War provided an invaluable service not only to the country and service which had employed him, but to mankind in general. For Wolf strongly believed that such spies helped to keep the Cold War from becoming a hot one by making transparent the strengths, advantages and, most importantly, the intentions of the enemy, thereby preventing miscalculations and mistakes with potentially horrific consequences.
Whatever valuable service a foreign intelligence service may provide in cold war times cannot justify any spy agency to disrupt or sabotage an adversary's political process or to bring about regime change. But before we condemn Russia's apparent intervention in our political process, we ought to remember that our CIA has routinely intervened in the political processes of other nations and is no doubt doing so today. That we do so while whining about Russian interference is part and parcel of the arrogance and hypocrisy that made America great!
Whatever valuable service a foreign intelligence service may provide in cold war times cannot justify any spy agency to disrupt or sabotage an adversary's political process or to bring about regime change. But before we condemn Russia's apparent intervention in our political process, we ought to remember that our CIA has routinely intervened in the political processes of other nations and is no doubt doing so today. That we do so while whining about Russian interference is part and parcel of the arrogance and hypocrisy that made America great!
6
I'm calling on the Chinese, British, Australians, Mexicans, French, Swedes, Ukrainians and Canadians to hack Trump's taxes, Pence's private e-mails, and the Republican national and congressional committees and turn over the results to WikiLeaks (and to U.S. prosecutors).
Don't sweat the legal implications, as Putin's GOP pimps here in the U.S. say this is the new American way.
Your faithful servant,
G. Washington
Don't sweat the legal implications, as Putin's GOP pimps here in the U.S. say this is the new American way.
Your faithful servant,
G. Washington
The closest parallel is to the House Un-American Activities Committee hearings of the 1930s and 1940s and the hearings conducted by Senator Joseph McCarthy in the 1950s. The oddity is that newspapers like the Washington Post and New York Times are siding with the “Tail-Gunner Joes.”
4
William case. You do know that McCarthy was a Republican too, don't you?
Hi James. Thanks for being brave in government reporting. Read my ebook; "I'm In Oz".
The big question at present is ; Is Trump a Russian Puppet elected by Russian efforts during the campaign? Even if the answer is no, there will always be the question and assumption that he is, considering all the public information thus far. I point out that Trump has never taken an outward defensive stance, instead deflecting suspicion.
Even if Trump were a Russian puppet, the fact remains the F.B.I. took steps to mold public opinion against Clinton just a few days prior to election day resulting in a Trump win. Trump is also an F.B.I. puppet.
Trump has taken several steps that harm America leading me to believe he is a Russian puppet. It will take a clear signal from the intelligence community to convince me otherwise, meaning that Trump is just plain ignorant.
The big question at present is ; Is Trump a Russian Puppet elected by Russian efforts during the campaign? Even if the answer is no, there will always be the question and assumption that he is, considering all the public information thus far. I point out that Trump has never taken an outward defensive stance, instead deflecting suspicion.
Even if Trump were a Russian puppet, the fact remains the F.B.I. took steps to mold public opinion against Clinton just a few days prior to election day resulting in a Trump win. Trump is also an F.B.I. puppet.
Trump has taken several steps that harm America leading me to believe he is a Russian puppet. It will take a clear signal from the intelligence community to convince me otherwise, meaning that Trump is just plain ignorant.
2
" It will take a clear signal from the intelligence community to convince me otherwise."
And what on earth, my dear fellow, makes you think that you will be receiving such a signal? Do you have the appropriate clearances?
And what on earth, my dear fellow, makes you think that you will be receiving such a signal? Do you have the appropriate clearances?
2
Frank; are you part of the secret shadow government?
Russia has one too.
Russia has one too.
The integrity of America's electoral system has been under siege from within for decades. Gerrymandering, super pacs, voter suppression and electoral mismanagement at the state level. The Russians were no doubt cognizant of the vulnerabilities of the presidential election process since at least 2004. It was inevitable that if domestic abuse of the electoral process was allowed to knock down the door, a rogue foreign state would want to walk through it.
7
Good to hear from you again, Mr. Risen. Thanks for this fascinating column telling us how it works and what we can expect, or not. In other words "Don't hold your breath". I was hoping this would be unravelled soon and we would actually get the results.
2
I find it hard to believe that with all the bits of information revealed so far and the sophistication of NSA domestic spying Great Britain's corresponding spying unit that it would take so long to come to a final assessment. If it does, then political coverup will be the motivation. We need a bi-partisan commission with subpoena powers to objectively investigate Dondropov Trumpchenko's connection to Russia and if it played any part in the 2016 Election cycle.
2
"Even after an arrest is made, counterintelligence officials can spend several more years trying to determine exactly how much damage was inflicted."
I don't see that timeline working over on Breitbart. Asperger's/Libertarian defaults usually run to INSTANT GRATIFICATION over there.
("I'm not saying it's true. I'm just telling you what I heard.")
I don't see that timeline working over on Breitbart. Asperger's/Libertarian defaults usually run to INSTANT GRATIFICATION over there.
("I'm not saying it's true. I'm just telling you what I heard.")
1
I suspect that the relationship between Trump and his cronies -- I mean advisers -- and Russia is much more mundane than the Cold War spying described here. Follow the money. That's the only language Trump understands. My guess is that money laundering is involved. And sizable loans on easy terms to Trump. All the other stuff, such as the DNC hacking, was done to make mischief and maybe help out Trump a little bit. Did it interfere with our election? Certainly, if only because James Comey didn't feel that he needed to alert the country about his months-long investigation into Trump/Russia connections, but did feel he needed to dredge up Hillary Clinton's meaningless emails for the umpteenth time. Get Trump's tax returns and follow the money. And do it with an independent special prosecutor with full powers of subpoena, because clearly the Republicans in Congress are going to stall and try to change the subject as long as possible. They are cowardly at best; treasonous at worst.
40
The more Nunes, Ryan and Trump try to shut down the work of the Intel Committee the more guilty they look of collusion with the Russians. But the news will come out. It always does.
8
Trump's new message is that the "Democrats are out to get me. I won fair and square". Let's examine this. When Comey announced a reinvestigating into the Clinton in November, Trump and supporters applauded Comey's INTEGRITY in spite of the timing. This March when Comey announced that an investigation into Trump's campaign began last July 2016, Trump and republicans dismissed this as partisan politics. Truth has no home here. An investigation that began well before the election is now invalid? Trump and republicans campaigned on "Unwavering support of Law Enforcement". Do they only support law enforcement when it benefits them? Do they support Russian hacks, when it benefits republicans?
Trump spins a lot of propaganda for his followers and they no longer trust anything negative about him, even Comey's words are only believed when they support Trump's propaganda. The rational is an enemy of an enemy is a friend?
The biggest disappointment is that Comey did not unilateral announce the FBI's investigation of Trump's campaign back in November along with the investigation of Clinton. He should have for the sake of integrity. The FBI's silence and timing on this has allowed another political spin on the investigation to be staged by Trump. Republicans are blocking political damage, discrediting Comey after targeting democrats for 2 years. I am not sure of the strategy here, but Russia could be still meddling. However, Republicans will take a win at any cost!
Trump spins a lot of propaganda for his followers and they no longer trust anything negative about him, even Comey's words are only believed when they support Trump's propaganda. The rational is an enemy of an enemy is a friend?
The biggest disappointment is that Comey did not unilateral announce the FBI's investigation of Trump's campaign back in November along with the investigation of Clinton. He should have for the sake of integrity. The FBI's silence and timing on this has allowed another political spin on the investigation to be staged by Trump. Republicans are blocking political damage, discrediting Comey after targeting democrats for 2 years. I am not sure of the strategy here, but Russia could be still meddling. However, Republicans will take a win at any cost!
3
Sorry, there are no parallels to the present any time in US history.
Across many years, Trump accepted tens, and maybe hundreds, of millions of dollars worth of laundered money from Russian kleptocrats and mafia, to fund his projects. Trump and many in his inner circle have close personal relationships with, and are unabashed advocates for, Putin and members of his inner circle - Putin being the person who ordered the attack on the US political system, ordered the murder and/or jailing of scores of his political opponents, and ordered the invasion and annexation of a sovereign neighbor.
Nothing has ever come close in the history of the US - we have a president who is both a money launderer and a close personal ally of a US enemy. Our democracy is truly in peril.
Across many years, Trump accepted tens, and maybe hundreds, of millions of dollars worth of laundered money from Russian kleptocrats and mafia, to fund his projects. Trump and many in his inner circle have close personal relationships with, and are unabashed advocates for, Putin and members of his inner circle - Putin being the person who ordered the attack on the US political system, ordered the murder and/or jailing of scores of his political opponents, and ordered the invasion and annexation of a sovereign neighbor.
Nothing has ever come close in the history of the US - we have a president who is both a money launderer and a close personal ally of a US enemy. Our democracy is truly in peril.
10
Soviet Russia has become an oligarchy run by a demagogue and his corporate criminal cronies. The US has, unfortunately, fallen into a similar situation. It seems clear to me that some of the US oligarchs have teamed up with there Russian counterparts and some of their plotting was picked up by routine US surveillance of high level Russians and there operatives.
This is quite the opposite of the Cold War. This is the uber powerful of two of the world's major powers deciding to work together to increase profits and influence internationally. They have already stolen there own countries blind.
I blame the Democratic establishment for denying Senator Sanders a chance to dismantle the corporate/oligarch control of our democracy.
This is quite the opposite of the Cold War. This is the uber powerful of two of the world's major powers deciding to work together to increase profits and influence internationally. They have already stolen there own countries blind.
I blame the Democratic establishment for denying Senator Sanders a chance to dismantle the corporate/oligarch control of our democracy.
3
I've been doing research into cold war espionage for an unrelated novel and it definitely sheds light on the current events. I've especially enjoyed reading "Spy Wars" by Tennet H. Bagley and "KGB" by John Barron. Many top Russian players got their start trained in the KGB.
2
Tennent Bagley also wrote "Spymaster" which is based on the recollections of a high ranking Soviet intelligence officer.
1
Whoever hacked the DNC and exposed their corruption did the Americas people a favor. It's not as if the hacking caused any harm to the country. They didn't rig the election.
3
So criminal hacking or KGB espionage in America is okay if, in your opinion, the country as a whole is undamaged (or simply finds the leaked information interesting)? That's a bizarre view.
And why limit yourself to the DNC hack? Why overlook all the other interference in the election and potential collusion with Trump? Why set up election-rigging as the only possible wrong?
And why limit yourself to the DNC hack? Why overlook all the other interference in the election and potential collusion with Trump? Why set up election-rigging as the only possible wrong?
1
What other interference in the election? What collusion? There's no proof. It's all liberal wishful thinking.
If there is no national harm there is no foul. Even national security laws addressing leaks of classified information define the seriousness of a leak or release of classified information by the amount of damage they cause, and these so-called hacks don't concern classified information.
If there is no national harm there is no foul. Even national security laws addressing leaks of classified information define the seriousness of a leak or release of classified information by the amount of damage they cause, and these so-called hacks don't concern classified information.
What interference other than the multiple hacks, by different agencies, of the DNC computers? (1) The hacking of Podesta's email account; (2) hacking of the DNCC; (3) publication and promotion of numbers of falsified news stories attacking Clinton; (4) deployment of social media bots to promote Trump and denigrate Clinton; (5) the targeting or compromising of elements of multiple U.S. state or local electoral boards; (6) collaboration with Wikileaks to undermine election and more broadly confidence in electoral system; (7) use of RT as propaganda force, including payments from RT to Trump team members.
The reason it's described as "potential" collusion with Trump is that the proof, if it exists, is not public yet. The point of this story is that espionage cases take years to unravel. It's not "liberal wishful thinking," it's reasonable security protocols and the simple fact that the investigators are just getting started. They might find nothing, you're right. But it sure seems like they will.
The reason it's described as "potential" collusion with Trump is that the proof, if it exists, is not public yet. The point of this story is that espionage cases take years to unravel. It's not "liberal wishful thinking," it's reasonable security protocols and the simple fact that the investigators are just getting started. They might find nothing, you're right. But it sure seems like they will.
4
There is absolutely no reason that an American political campaign needs to be in touch with Russian agents/businessmen. It is interesting that a number of people who have an interesting relation to Putin are being thrown off roofs, having bags thrown over their heads, and dying on the street. Rex Tillerson's next visits are to Erdogan and Putin, two governments who provided funds to our former short term National Security Advisor. How much info did he turn over to them before he was forced to resign. I'm no conspiracy theorist, but the whole thing smells to high heaven. But, according to this article, it may take some time to smoke them all out. In the meantime, Nunes has blown himself up and needs to go, as well as Sessions, Kushner, and Gorka etc. What a bunch of ne'er do wells.
3
There is absolutely no reason that an American political campaign needs to be in touch with Russian agents/businessmen.
======================
Then why did John Podesta, Clinton campaign manager, work on the board of directors of a Russian owned energy company? And get awarded 75,000 shares of its stock?
======================
Then why did John Podesta, Clinton campaign manager, work on the board of directors of a Russian owned energy company? And get awarded 75,000 shares of its stock?
1
The president's effort to shift interest from the Intel Committee toward the Clintons won't work because:
A) the Clintons aren't being investigated, he is.
B) the Clinton saga is very old news, long ago settled.
A) the Clintons aren't being investigated, he is.
B) the Clinton saga is very old news, long ago settled.
3
Ten years of mining the nothings of Whitewater. Ten hours of hiding the Information on PutinGate, which will now be known as the WhiteWash Enquiry.
2
Fascinating piece and a terrific read.
However, it seems silly to compare these Cold War cases to the circus of the Trump campaign. The Hansons, Aldridges, theIr Soviet counterparts, et al were trained experienced agents, not amateurish wannabe hangers-on like Roger Stone, Carter Page, or others campaign "advisors" with no background in spycraft. Stone in particular seems to have made a career of inflating his importance beyond the reality of it.
Obviously, the advantage to Democrats is that any investigation they can gin up and make appear significant can indeed drag on for years and years, undermining the administration of a President they loathe. Having significant elements of such an investigation shielded from the public as classified makes it even more appealing, as innuendos and "grey clouds" over the President can be more useful for their ultimate goal of delegitimizing him than if Trump suddenly started speaking Russian this afternoon.
Unfortunately, Risen speaks of this investigation as the equal of those Cold War cases. It shouldn't be.
However, it seems silly to compare these Cold War cases to the circus of the Trump campaign. The Hansons, Aldridges, theIr Soviet counterparts, et al were trained experienced agents, not amateurish wannabe hangers-on like Roger Stone, Carter Page, or others campaign "advisors" with no background in spycraft. Stone in particular seems to have made a career of inflating his importance beyond the reality of it.
Obviously, the advantage to Democrats is that any investigation they can gin up and make appear significant can indeed drag on for years and years, undermining the administration of a President they loathe. Having significant elements of such an investigation shielded from the public as classified makes it even more appealing, as innuendos and "grey clouds" over the President can be more useful for their ultimate goal of delegitimizing him than if Trump suddenly started speaking Russian this afternoon.
Unfortunately, Risen speaks of this investigation as the equal of those Cold War cases. It shouldn't be.
2
Mr. Risen references an era during which personal computers, email, Twitter, etc. did not exist.
In contrast to the 80s and 90s, the playing field for espionage today is completely different. Who needs clandestine meetings in a park when messages can be exchanged between handlers and their agents via secure messaging apps?
The NYT reported a couple of months ago that the KGB, operating on computers in Russia proper, had placed child pornography on the home computer of a Russian dissident who lives in the UK. He was arrested by the British authorities.
I suspect the trail connecting this pathetic administration to the Russians is largely electronic in nature.
The Russians have something -- electronic -- on our "president." I don't care what Sean Spicer says.
In contrast to the 80s and 90s, the playing field for espionage today is completely different. Who needs clandestine meetings in a park when messages can be exchanged between handlers and their agents via secure messaging apps?
The NYT reported a couple of months ago that the KGB, operating on computers in Russia proper, had placed child pornography on the home computer of a Russian dissident who lives in the UK. He was arrested by the British authorities.
I suspect the trail connecting this pathetic administration to the Russians is largely electronic in nature.
The Russians have something -- electronic -- on our "president." I don't care what Sean Spicer says.
26
Let's start with Trump's tax returns.
12
Interesting history, but no parallels to our current situation. At worst -- at absolute worst, we have the possibility the Russians hacked the headquarters of a private political party and leaked some embarrassing but ultimately not damaging emails. We have an even more tenuous possibility that elements of Trump's campaign colluded with the Russians -- but no evidence of any such collusion. And in fact, the time line doesn't fit (DNC was hacked before Trump threw his hat in the ring).
But even if it found (unlikely) that there was some collusion at some level -- the damage pales in comparison to what Ames et al did. What Ames did was treason -- if it is found that anyone in the Trump campaign colluded with the Russians in hacking the DNC/Podesta, that may be illegal, but not treason.
But even if it found (unlikely) that there was some collusion at some level -- the damage pales in comparison to what Ames et al did. What Ames did was treason -- if it is found that anyone in the Trump campaign colluded with the Russians in hacking the DNC/Podesta, that may be illegal, but not treason.
3
In this lack of an investigation, aa lack of motivation is the biggest factor.
The Republicans do not want to know.
The Republicans do not want to know.
9
n this lack of an investigation, aa lack of motivation is the biggest factor.
The Republicans do not want to know.
====================
Um, according to Director Comey this investigation has been going on for nine months.
According to agency leaks to the NY Times and statements by ex DNI Clapper, they never found anything.
The Republicans do not want to know.
====================
Um, according to Director Comey this investigation has been going on for nine months.
According to agency leaks to the NY Times and statements by ex DNI Clapper, they never found anything.
Considering Flynn had access to all the top secret files he could handle for a month. One would assume we've been completely compromised for years if not decades.
2
If Sec. Clinton's email server was important enough for a thorough and rigorous house oversight investigation, surly complicity in a foreign nation's interference in our elections are equally deserving.
21
"It began with evidence of a breach of the Democratic National Committee’s computers"
The FBI was investigating Trump campaign/ Russian ties in July, 2016.
Yet not one agency or major media outlet - nor Bernie Sanders who knew vitriolic attacks against Ms. Hillary Rodham Clinton on their supporters' facebook pages were coming from the Russians - truly sounded the alarm to save democracy.
The press parties - and profits - continued unabated while the election was treated as "business as usual" and the media courted The Con Don - mr. reality tv.
One simply has to reconsider what America means to the BIG money masters on all sides of the political spectrum. Apparently WE THE PEOPLE are the only ones who believed their mantras about "manifest destiny" as they continually destroy every social good since Teddy Roosevelt and FDR. They think do not have to worry - they're at the top of the food chain and trough. Guess they haven't figured out yet that their fellow sharks will eat them up too - as fast as they can.
WE - collectively - can stop The Con Don and his Top 1% Global Financial Elite Robber Baron/ Radical Religion Good Old Boys' Party/ Corporate Cabal from starting WW3 in cooperation with Russia, Turkey, Israel, Syria, UK and every other country they have thrown in turmoil in their money wars.
Will WE? Will the brightest minds - or perhaps some average citizen - figure out a way to throw the Robber Barons OUT of OUR governments right now?
The FBI was investigating Trump campaign/ Russian ties in July, 2016.
Yet not one agency or major media outlet - nor Bernie Sanders who knew vitriolic attacks against Ms. Hillary Rodham Clinton on their supporters' facebook pages were coming from the Russians - truly sounded the alarm to save democracy.
The press parties - and profits - continued unabated while the election was treated as "business as usual" and the media courted The Con Don - mr. reality tv.
One simply has to reconsider what America means to the BIG money masters on all sides of the political spectrum. Apparently WE THE PEOPLE are the only ones who believed their mantras about "manifest destiny" as they continually destroy every social good since Teddy Roosevelt and FDR. They think do not have to worry - they're at the top of the food chain and trough. Guess they haven't figured out yet that their fellow sharks will eat them up too - as fast as they can.
WE - collectively - can stop The Con Don and his Top 1% Global Financial Elite Robber Baron/ Radical Religion Good Old Boys' Party/ Corporate Cabal from starting WW3 in cooperation with Russia, Turkey, Israel, Syria, UK and every other country they have thrown in turmoil in their money wars.
Will WE? Will the brightest minds - or perhaps some average citizen - figure out a way to throw the Robber Barons OUT of OUR governments right now?
13
WE do not have years. NOW is the time!
12
Which is more believable on its face? Trump is a Manchurian Candidate, a treasonous mole insinuated into American politics to destroy American power around the world? Or Trump is an unscrupulous, self-dealing narcissist, a double-dealing huckster and serial liar who stops at nothing to enrich himself and his family?
Spies and spycraft are involved, but casting the Trump-Russia relationship in Cold War terms is a fundamental mistake, likely to lead to failure to detect and understand it fully. Putin and his cronies are not a Cold War ideologues. This is not a global battle between Communism and Capitalism. Putin's Russia is a kleptocracy, albeit one with nuclear weapons and regional imperial ambitions. Follow the money. The relation Trump and his cronies have to Putin's Russia is going to look in the end a lot less like Cold War era treason and a lot more like money laundering and organized crime on an international scale. That's just who Putin is. That's just who Trump is.
Spies and spycraft are involved, but casting the Trump-Russia relationship in Cold War terms is a fundamental mistake, likely to lead to failure to detect and understand it fully. Putin and his cronies are not a Cold War ideologues. This is not a global battle between Communism and Capitalism. Putin's Russia is a kleptocracy, albeit one with nuclear weapons and regional imperial ambitions. Follow the money. The relation Trump and his cronies have to Putin's Russia is going to look in the end a lot less like Cold War era treason and a lot more like money laundering and organized crime on an international scale. That's just who Putin is. That's just who Trump is.
59
I largely agree, but let's remember that both things can be true at once. Yes Trump (and Manafort, etc) are greedy money laundering con men, but Putin was expecting a geopolitical score from Trump - not to mention creating more chaos in western democracies. He used the machinery of espionage to accomplish his goals. And he treated the Trumpettes like his hackers - let them profit from their crimes on the side, while he accumulates more REAL wealth. Power.
A well done, informative article, but missing any reference to the case of the Moscow Embassy Marine Security Guard Clayton LONETREE, which caused quite a sensation, not to mention distraction, at the time.
2
Once a spy hunt gets beyond discovering the identity of the spy, it becomes a political matter. And that is so sad. The voters deserve a complete and accurate account. The only limitation on the extent of disclosure ought to be the protection of sources and, to a lesser degree, the protection of methods but only those methods that would be rendered ineffective by disclosure. The tendency of government agencies to protect their image and limit disclosure by exaggerated claims that limitations are necessary to protect methods denies voters a complete and accurate account.
12
The CIA had moles. The White House has treasonous rats.
51
I do not accept that the Red Menace stole our election, if so it was exceedingly well stolen, in three Blue wall States, and left CA and others unaffected, sacre bleu, who knew the pesky rooskies were so... so... so.. attuned to our nuance, more so than our Dems, who are STILL in bubble-shock
=
Our intel I submit, is cartoon-ville, even per this article; some of us remember Nosenko, code name Fedora, and later Top Hat, who said, 60s era, that there were, and then were not, moles, and thus we were paralyzed with self-doubt.
Paging James Jesus Angleton
Of late we had Snowden who walked off with the NSA vaults, the same! NSA that had been breached back-a-times with Falcon and Snowman (no relation)
When I saw that no NSA seniors had been publicly shot, I knew nobody cared
Since ONE version of sabotage of Clinton's campaign, was Comey announcing his continuing criminal investigation, his own October surprise
obviously Comey is red plant, now in charge of investigating hi9mself (oops)
=
the article here cites to multiple leaks, thwarting identification of any given leak; obviously Comey is part of the vast right wing conspiracy along with the vast Red Menace Communist conspiracy...
...all to elect Donald Trump, and T's bannions, oops minions, rolled over for room rates and vacancy rates in his hotels,
=
and our side is accused of intellectual incoherence?
=
Clinton lost and MSM lost its influence and front row seat at pressers
oh the horror the horror
=
Our intel I submit, is cartoon-ville, even per this article; some of us remember Nosenko, code name Fedora, and later Top Hat, who said, 60s era, that there were, and then were not, moles, and thus we were paralyzed with self-doubt.
Paging James Jesus Angleton
Of late we had Snowden who walked off with the NSA vaults, the same! NSA that had been breached back-a-times with Falcon and Snowman (no relation)
When I saw that no NSA seniors had been publicly shot, I knew nobody cared
Since ONE version of sabotage of Clinton's campaign, was Comey announcing his continuing criminal investigation, his own October surprise
obviously Comey is red plant, now in charge of investigating hi9mself (oops)
=
the article here cites to multiple leaks, thwarting identification of any given leak; obviously Comey is part of the vast right wing conspiracy along with the vast Red Menace Communist conspiracy...
...all to elect Donald Trump, and T's bannions, oops minions, rolled over for room rates and vacancy rates in his hotels,
=
and our side is accused of intellectual incoherence?
=
Clinton lost and MSM lost its influence and front row seat at pressers
oh the horror the horror
7
Nice little farce 'Fort'; but the question remains what did he know and when did he know it and when will the Investigation be allowed to answer these questions?
2
I wonder what evidence you need, for this to be nothing at all but de-legitimization. It is impossible to prove a negative (ie no conspiracy)
The nature of intel is deniability, and it is impossible to know or accept what anyone says.
I submit, your position, 'attempt, without effect,' is different from 'stole' the election, the original meme.
So far we have wikileaks, which may or may not be the pesky rooskies, ZZZZzzzz...., and we have ongoing chatter between people in a global dialog, some of whom are russian and some of whom are trumpian
This is not enough for me, to say there were even ATTEMPTS at influence
I have no idea, so tell me, what 'collusion' means;
The Clinton administration would havebeen irrelevant to the Russians, who pretty much do what they want, so cui bono?
I hold that a Trump-Putin alliance, is FDR-Stalin in WW2, to fight the Naz, and we now fight the new Naz, the Muz (oops) the Muslims of warrior Islam, so I see the world in Manichean terms, and Islam v the infidel and v itself, in terms of Islam's 1300 year war of global conquest
=
Stalin defeated the Naz, and got eastern Europe as his trophy, and we benefited, b/c we did not have to take Stalin's casualties
=
Back to the conspiracy at hand, it is unknowable, like, who killed Kennedy, and all the rest
My opinions are irrelevant to policy, but the stench of witch hunt prevails,
We make subjective judgment, and mine is Your Side is sore losers
The nature of intel is deniability, and it is impossible to know or accept what anyone says.
I submit, your position, 'attempt, without effect,' is different from 'stole' the election, the original meme.
So far we have wikileaks, which may or may not be the pesky rooskies, ZZZZzzzz...., and we have ongoing chatter between people in a global dialog, some of whom are russian and some of whom are trumpian
This is not enough for me, to say there were even ATTEMPTS at influence
I have no idea, so tell me, what 'collusion' means;
The Clinton administration would havebeen irrelevant to the Russians, who pretty much do what they want, so cui bono?
I hold that a Trump-Putin alliance, is FDR-Stalin in WW2, to fight the Naz, and we now fight the new Naz, the Muz (oops) the Muslims of warrior Islam, so I see the world in Manichean terms, and Islam v the infidel and v itself, in terms of Islam's 1300 year war of global conquest
=
Stalin defeated the Naz, and got eastern Europe as his trophy, and we benefited, b/c we did not have to take Stalin's casualties
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Back to the conspiracy at hand, it is unknowable, like, who killed Kennedy, and all the rest
My opinions are irrelevant to policy, but the stench of witch hunt prevails,
We make subjective judgment, and mine is Your Side is sore losers
1
Of course a win feels fair, because it feels good to win. Of course a win does not feel good when there is a "cheating cloud" above the winners head. Any group would natural be defensive and deny it, when one of its players is accused of cheating. Your anger is natural. Our anger is natural. But just look at it this way. When we found out that Germany had been systematically drugging their athletes after decades of denials, it became clear that everyone had been cheated. Everyone will eventually be cheated in the long term. Because it is just a matter of time until their (Russia's) preferential candidate is not the one you feel is deserving. Then it will be too late.
What happened to Stombach?
A bit of historical perspective helps to underscore the foolishness of Democrats' current hysteria.
In 1985, the US & USSR were global rivals locked in a nuclear stalemate, poised to destroy each other and the world with their devastating arsenals. The spying competition involved agents working on nuclear weapons programs.
In 2016, the scandal that has one part of America in a mindless frenzy involves a couple of Russian ops uncovering a few private messages from a hired political campaign manager in which unkind things are said about that manager's colleagues.
Is this a joke?
Have the Democrats lost their minds?
In 1985, the US & USSR were global rivals locked in a nuclear stalemate, poised to destroy each other and the world with their devastating arsenals. The spying competition involved agents working on nuclear weapons programs.
In 2016, the scandal that has one part of America in a mindless frenzy involves a couple of Russian ops uncovering a few private messages from a hired political campaign manager in which unkind things are said about that manager's colleagues.
Is this a joke?
Have the Democrats lost their minds?
13
On the contrary, the current spying scandal is even more important than those of the Cold War, because it involves the Presidential election.
It's not like the Hanssen case. It's like the Hanssen case and the Watergate break-in combined. It's as if Nixon had accepted the help of plumbers from the KGB.
It's not like the Hanssen case. It's like the Hanssen case and the Watergate break-in combined. It's as if Nixon had accepted the help of plumbers from the KGB.
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"Have the Democrats lost their minds?"
I asked myself the same thing regarding Republicans when they were obsessed with Benghazi and emails...
I asked myself the same thing regarding Republicans when they were obsessed with Benghazi and emails...
2
Lincoln said that the dogma of the quiet past is inadequate to the stormy present and that we must think and act anew. One would hope that after 30 years counterintelligence techniques and contacts with Russians are improved to the point that these spy situations can be cleared much sooner. Holding to the excuse that these things always take so much time plays into the hands of Nunes and Trump. There is so much obstruction going on that there was likely criminal collusion with the Russians by the Trump campaign. The joint investigative group must work harder and faster than ever before because our democracy is at stake. If there are foreign agents in the White House, their work is still ongoing and it must be stopped.
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There were foreign agents in the Bill Clinton WH, and our democracy survived. This isn't just speculation, it was reported as fact.
I wonder if the whole story will ever be told or will it be too damaging to our own intelligence entities? At what point are we shooting ourselves in the foot to disclose CIA/FBI information on our activities in Russia and elsewhere?
2
Good to see the NYT write about the Cold War. Have you finally understood that Communism was indeed an awful and inhumane system? I fear not. You just want to bash the current president.
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Mortarman, You'll have trouble finding anyone (including the NYT) who doesn't realize that Soviet Communism was an awful and inhumane system, but it collapsed over 25 years ago. President Trump is being bashed for things that are happening now.
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Meanwhile, having already accomplished what they wanted with us they are sitting back right now waiting to see what drops off the tree. Our politicians are so partisan, especially, the Republicans, that they hamstring our ( FBI, CIA, NI, etc.) agencies almost completely with their obfuscation and infighting further delaying results.
Comey, Clapper, Brennan, and Yates may be game breakers for us and they are just sitting on the sidelines waiting to be called. The White House continues to wreak its ignorant havoc, leaving Nunes in his position as chairman of the house intelligence is just one example of the malpractice going on.
I have no confidence that the White House or the cabinet have any clue of what they are doing.
Our best hope is that the FBI will find some criminal activities by the Trump campaign that will require the president to resign.