Perhaps, there is another ethical issue: Should anyone ever report a crime, even if you think one has happened, under the conditions of today's criminal justice system. Law and Order episodes aside, there are no trials by jury anymore. We have allowed our system to get so overbooked, thanks to the War on Drugs, that justice is negotiated, more often than it is adjudicated. I don't think any ethical person can, today, ignore the need to stop and think about whether the benefits of reporting a crime outweigh the risk of supporting injustice.
11
Bankruptcy is the least of this woman's worries.
23
Once Cindy broached the subject of spousal support it is time to get an attorney involved if for no other reason than her failing health and potential of not being able to protect her assets. Sean sounds like a vulture just sitting on the tree branch watching, waiting, and waiting to pick her bones clean.
As far as cutting rituals go with consensual and legal others...cut it out and mind your own business.
As far as cutting rituals go with consensual and legal others...cut it out and mind your own business.
12
Why is the person in the illustration portraying as picking the woman's pockets shown as dark skinned? That seems offensive.
13
The woman depicted also has dark skin. Is that a problem?
24
"Cindy reveled in having a lover for the first time in 30 years." Good for her. It may not be forever, but, nothing is.
5
The "ethicist" seems to be an advocate of free "choice," that phony concept that appeals only to the rich and deluded. As an old friend, why not just ask her what she is getting out of the relationship and if that, in her mind, really justifies what it is taking from her.
18
The teacher did not abuse anybody. Al she did was behaving irresponsibly. Few saints never do. Thank God you didn't "talk" to the principal.
Never mention the incident and try to analyze your rage and indignation, because I think there lies the problem.
Never mention the incident and try to analyze your rage and indignation, because I think there lies the problem.
42
Regardless of the ex-students involved, I certainly hope that none of my children's teachers are cutting themselves or using non-prescribed pills. Both of things require professional intervention, and something should have been done.
16
One normally needs to read the Social Q's column to get this much patronizing judgement from advice seekers.
3
The advice from the Social Q's columnist is tops and they don't muddy the water with readers' responses.
6
Find out what she wants to do and help her accomplish it. If the relationship is no longer of serious value to her, get him out immediately. If this were a close friend of mine I'd offer to help her find an appropriate attorney to come to the house, and request that this gentleman remove his belongings within 1-2 hours. You could give her moral support and possibly suggest a man be with her while this person leaves. I would have the attorney provide a letter for her signature explaining her decision and if possible provide a power of
attorney that a trusted and knowledgeable friend or relative or attorney can hold for her. Another complication is the business and anything of value it owns or responsibilities they share. Your friend is going to have to be strong, clear and unyielding to get through this serious concern as fast as possible. Any wobbly negotiations on her part will be costly indeed. First and foremost, the attorney should advise as to the best manner to protect her assets immediately, change the keys and have a phone dedicated to this concern. If she does not act decisively and consistently, in your place I would remove myself immediately and completely from the concern.
attorney that a trusted and knowledgeable friend or relative or attorney can hold for her. Another complication is the business and anything of value it owns or responsibilities they share. Your friend is going to have to be strong, clear and unyielding to get through this serious concern as fast as possible. Any wobbly negotiations on her part will be costly indeed. First and foremost, the attorney should advise as to the best manner to protect her assets immediately, change the keys and have a phone dedicated to this concern. If she does not act decisively and consistently, in your place I would remove myself immediately and completely from the concern.
24
Noticed skin color in drawing, irrelevant to problem.
More relevant may be my white experience: my husband was drunk every day by 8:00p.m., a condition so severe he often woke up the next morning that way as well.
Prime reason I divorced? HHusband was running his business in a way everything we owned was at risk and the risk was high. Frankly, the manner in which this person's friend has behaved in her situation (going into a business with a livein alcoholic and being willing to renew the commitment?) gives little hope she will take an effective assertive stance.
She needs a solid supportive dose of survival effort and fast. As for the readers who think the friend is being intrusive? I greatly valued the friends who helped me. But I took the lead and fought it through. It was, after all, my problem; past, present and future.
More relevant may be my white experience: my husband was drunk every day by 8:00p.m., a condition so severe he often woke up the next morning that way as well.
Prime reason I divorced? HHusband was running his business in a way everything we owned was at risk and the risk was high. Frankly, the manner in which this person's friend has behaved in her situation (going into a business with a livein alcoholic and being willing to renew the commitment?) gives little hope she will take an effective assertive stance.
She needs a solid supportive dose of survival effort and fast. As for the readers who think the friend is being intrusive? I greatly valued the friends who helped me. But I took the lead and fought it through. It was, after all, my problem; past, present and future.
16
How does the second writer know that her friend has not also been reaching out, in her illness, to the former students to "make amends in case anything happens" for her ethically questionable behavior in the past? Why does she assume that she is the only recipient of the teacher's remorse? I don't see that the friend is owed the apology for the incident with the students as she was not hurt by it (regardless of its role in ending their friendship). It is the students who are are owed the apology for an ethical lapse (but not, I think, jailable offense) on the part of their former teacher, and that apology may very well have been extended as part of the same process of "making amends." But whether it has nor not, it is not the letter writer's business to expect an apology over this issue since it did not "happen between us," but rather happened between the teacher and her students. Her own "moral discomfort" over "failing to report her" is her own burden to bear.
35
LW1 - All that I have learned from the long letter is that you don't approve of Cindy and Sean and you know far too much about their lives. Is he taking advantage of her? Were you taking advantage of Cindy before Sean came along? Mind your own business.
LW2 - your friend sounds creepy but what good will come from confronting her? Move on, and if you can't, end the friendship.
LW2 - your friend sounds creepy but what good will come from confronting her? Move on, and if you can't, end the friendship.
6
When a man meets a woman who quickly establishes a relationship, moves in and begins to spend his money we shake our heads, tsk tsk, say how silly he is and leave it alone. When the tables are turned, and a man does the same to a woman all of a sudden an intervention is needed. Is your concern merely based on your paternalism and belief that women need more protection than men? If Cindy were the one running through Sean's money would you feel the same concern for him? Don't presume to know what goes on in their relationship. If you feel you must, express your concern gently, offer the number of a crisis intervention source in your area and leave it at that.
6
MsPea, I think you are the one who shouldn't presume to know the letter writer wouldn't be just exactly as concerned if Sean were the friend being taken advantage of instead of Cindy.
19
The answer about the former teacher and the former student sounds like a legal response, not an ethical one. Any relationship with a former pupil still involves a power differential in the consciousness of the young person, who is only 18. It is similar to a husband telling the wife after 20 years of marriage "our whole marriage has been a lie." She would be shattered because her sense of reality and of herself includes the belief that she has a sound relationship with her husband.
11
Case #1 - I think you should express your concerns, but be prepared that she may not take it well, and could even cut you off as a friend.
Case #2 - It's a little unclear what the actual ethical question is. If it's,"Should I bring this up with my friend now, years later?" I can't see what purpose that would serve. If it's, "Should I have told her principal at the time?" I think probably so. But if she is not a teacher now (and poses no danger to young people in any other way) then I can't see anything to be gained from rehashing it with her now.
Case #2 - It's a little unclear what the actual ethical question is. If it's,"Should I bring this up with my friend now, years later?" I can't see what purpose that would serve. If it's, "Should I have told her principal at the time?" I think probably so. But if she is not a teacher now (and poses no danger to young people in any other way) then I can't see anything to be gained from rehashing it with her now.
8
I am shocked that more alarm bells haven't gone off about Sean and Cindy. google men who take advantage of vulnerable women - this one seems classic. He was bankrupt and homeless; it began with love-bombing (romance and ego-bostering); she was hooked; now she supports him; she may owe him cohabitation alimony; he keeps her busy working on a business that is taking up her time and resources - a classic con. Now he is critiquing her appearance because he knows that makes her vulnerable - classic con techniques: idealize, devalue, discard. Sean probably has his exit and his next target lined up already.
88
The LW has cobbled together a picture of Cindy's life from observations and shared info with friends. The picture may be accurate, but maybe it is not. Out of respect for Cindy, a grown woman, please talk to her - but come from the position that you don't really know what is happening, you only know what you guess and surmise. Just express concern for her, allow her to open up if she wants to, and offer help (whatever you can, in energy or otherwise) if she then seems to need it.
In short, if you go into the conversation with the assumption that you know everything - that is highly disrespectful of your friend's autonomy. Her choices may not be yours. Discussing them without pre-judgment may be more helpful to her than anything.
In short, if you go into the conversation with the assumption that you know everything - that is highly disrespectful of your friend's autonomy. Her choices may not be yours. Discussing them without pre-judgment may be more helpful to her than anything.
16
Regarding the first story, the nice thing about the "ideal of autonomy" Mr. Appiah mentions is that it works both ways. How will you feel never having spoken up if her financial situation takes a worse turn? Your right to say something has value also, and it may well be that she's living in a bubble that needs a good piercing. Sit her down and talk to her, but do it kindly. Make observations not condemnations.
And understand beforehand that she may just tell you to mind your own business. As for contacting her siblings, evaluate that after talking with her. One thing at a time.
And understand beforehand that she may just tell you to mind your own business. As for contacting her siblings, evaluate that after talking with her. One thing at a time.
15
I had a friend, 50s, minimal love life, also hustled by a charmer, who took much money from her, high five figures 20+ years ago), provided romance;
other friends persuaded her of the hustle, I met him once, he had a gift, in the end we persuaded her to break it off and we sued for financial recovery, went nowhere,
Talk to her, also see if you know any lawyers to declare her incompetent and seek a guardian and conservator, and do you know anyone else in her world who sees it your way
other friends persuaded her of the hustle, I met him once, he had a gift, in the end we persuaded her to break it off and we sued for financial recovery, went nowhere,
Talk to her, also see if you know any lawyers to declare her incompetent and seek a guardian and conservator, and do you know anyone else in her world who sees it your way
8
In the first letter about the woman named Cindy, simply broaching the topic of legal liability should this man remain and how he could literally take her to the cleaners under state palimony laws would be a wise thing to do. Ask Cindy the serious 'what if' questions.
Sure her home may be paid off, but if she has debts due to this man in her life or the failed business, they could come after her home to pay the debts off. If she becomes destitute then what?
Sure her home may be paid off, but if she has debts due to this man in her life or the failed business, they could come after her home to pay the debts off. If she becomes destitute then what?
17
Many single women don't do well in their old age. A reduced math sense and cognitive deficits of advancing age may be partly to blame. Unfortunately women have evolved to be dependent on men and families for child-rearing.
3
Women outlive men by almost a decade. I don't know how you define "don't do well," but I'd say death is not the best indicator of mental and physical health, either.
18
Excuse me, but you are way off base. What an evidence -free generalization.
27
A key reality of aging women alone is simple loneliness. They are also vulnerable due to the realities you note. But clearly and absolutely physical fear must be a factor when you are putting the brakes on the gravy train; protect your physical safety. Do not assume that someone is going to be "nice" and cooperative in this situation. Don't be alone when you have the please leave discussion.
11
not a large sampling of comments but i'm shocked that only a few could see that this Sean character is a very common type of con man and that he has already hooked Cindy into the cycle of idealize-devalue-discard. Romantic beginning - Now he's complaining about her physically. In between A and B he's hooked her for money, support, phony business deals, a place to live, the destruction of her credit and he keeps her hooked into doing the work for his grandiose plans that haven't panned out. By the time he leaves her (or likely, he already has some women on the side) she will be broke, heartbroke, and ruined. I would google up a storm on narcissistic sociopathic men who take advantage of vulnerable women and give her copies so she can face up to reality before it's too late. That situation will only get worse.
44
I am not quite sure what the second letter writer is referring to when saying the "cutting" friend could go to jail. Go to jail for what? The girl was 18 and it was consensual. While there may be an ethical question about this behavior, it is not illegal, and I doubt the friend would have lost her job. I am aware of teachers who have married former students. In the absence of proof of an inappropriate relationship while your friend was a teacher, there is nothing technically wrong or illegal going on here. Consenting adults are, by rule, consenting adults. You may have ethical qualms about what is going on here, but the law, as well as very likely the rules of the employer/school system, do not. Leave consenting adults to be consenting adults, and do not automatically assume another consenting adult is a victim. That is paternalistic and condescending.
63
I am no grammarian, but Appiah certainly sets a precedent for opining about things outside his expertise, so...
Week after week, we read phrases in letters and his comments that take the form "a [noun] of [possessive pronoun], e.g. "A friend of yours" or "a colleague of mine". Imagine the trees spared if Appiah simply wrote "your friend" or "my colleague" instead.
Educated without rigor re grammar, I'd like to hear from an authority. Be kind.
Week after week, we read phrases in letters and his comments that take the form "a [noun] of [possessive pronoun], e.g. "A friend of yours" or "a colleague of mine". Imagine the trees spared if Appiah simply wrote "your friend" or "my colleague" instead.
Educated without rigor re grammar, I'd like to hear from an authority. Be kind.
12
I think there is actually a subtle difference between the two. I think you're nitpicking and the targeted offence is quite obscure, to boot.
4
There is a difference between the two expressions, though in places they can be used interchangeably. "I am inviting a friend of yours to dinner" leads to the natural question "Which friend?" while "I am inviting your friend to dinner" suggests that both you and the speaker will know which friend is being referred to.
Once you've used "a friend of yours" as introduction you can then use "your friend" to refer to that individual during the rest of the conversation but you wouldn't normally do it the other way round.
In practice a lot of people do introduce the topic of an individual as "my friend" particularly in spoken language but there can be a slight tension as the listener then tries to work out whether they ought to know which friend is being talked about. "One of my friends" removes the assumption that the listener should know that identity.
Once you've used "a friend of yours" as introduction you can then use "your friend" to refer to that individual during the rest of the conversation but you wouldn't normally do it the other way round.
In practice a lot of people do introduce the topic of an individual as "my friend" particularly in spoken language but there can be a slight tension as the listener then tries to work out whether they ought to know which friend is being talked about. "One of my friends" removes the assumption that the listener should know that identity.
7
He's not breaking any rules of grammar. He's just got some hiccups in his style. Who cares, when he considers significant questions and does his best to answer them wisely?
9
I tend to agree with the answer - by all means talk to your friend about what's going on in her life, but bear in mind that you can't know how important either Sean or the business or both are to her and it is certainly not your place to try to conspire with others to force her to give up her partner or her enterprise because you think that's best for her. People have the right to make their own choices.
As for the second letter, the incident is long gone. I don't know why you would want to "confront" someone who is going through a personally terrible time but nonetheless has made the effort to reach out to you. The kind thing to do would be to say how much you've always valued her friendship and that as far as your relationship with her is concerned she shouldn't worry about anything from the past. I do understand that people can find it hard to put aside old incidents but there are some circumstances that really demand it.
As for the second letter, the incident is long gone. I don't know why you would want to "confront" someone who is going through a personally terrible time but nonetheless has made the effort to reach out to you. The kind thing to do would be to say how much you've always valued her friendship and that as far as your relationship with her is concerned she shouldn't worry about anything from the past. I do understand that people can find it hard to put aside old incidents but there are some circumstances that really demand it.
46
Regarding Cindy: it is remarkably easy to con people. And for them to admit they have been conned is difficult. If she brought up spousal support she is more or less asking for your advice. Perhaps you could research a decent attorney for her? And financial planner?
31
a call to your local council on aging might be in order depending on where you live. this sounds like financial abuse, and the COA should be able to advise you.
23
LW1 refers to her " province"and the three year rule on spousal support.My guess is she is not in the US. But it is likely that her jurisdiction has services for older adults and information sources on what to do in these situations. So yes, she should consult them.She should also investigate what law enforcement or prosecutors may be able to do. This sounds like it could be financial exploitation of a vulnerable adult. In my state this can be reported to adult protective services and state attorney general. Sean may not only be engaging in financial abuse; his drinking may foster physical and/or emotional abuse.
I don't agree with a hands off approach on this one. I'm afraid the friend who was reassured because Cindy's home was mortgage-free is naive. It may not be mortgage-free if Cindy has borrowed against it to help Sean. Was this borrowing, if it occurred, really done freely? Any intervention must be done before the spousal support threshold kicks in. Time is of the essence.
LW1 should be a good listener who uses gentle probing. BUT she should be.armed with information, from sources such as I listed, before talking extensively to Cindy on the situation. I would also not be as positive as Appiah, either, that Cindy is acting freely and is "of sound mind." She had a stroke, which can affect cognition. I also would not rule out talking to family. Cindy needs support if she acts; LW 1 should have concrete information and understanding of Cindy's options for action.
I don't agree with a hands off approach on this one. I'm afraid the friend who was reassured because Cindy's home was mortgage-free is naive. It may not be mortgage-free if Cindy has borrowed against it to help Sean. Was this borrowing, if it occurred, really done freely? Any intervention must be done before the spousal support threshold kicks in. Time is of the essence.
LW1 should be a good listener who uses gentle probing. BUT she should be.armed with information, from sources such as I listed, before talking extensively to Cindy on the situation. I would also not be as positive as Appiah, either, that Cindy is acting freely and is "of sound mind." She had a stroke, which can affect cognition. I also would not rule out talking to family. Cindy needs support if she acts; LW 1 should have concrete information and understanding of Cindy's options for action.
17
Busybody Week at The Ethicist.
27
It's always busybody time at the Ethicist. Most of the letters are from people who should just mind their own business.
12
That's one point-of-view. Another is that we are social animals. We care about and try to protect our friends and family, even though it takes courage and tact to speak up. The epidemic of depression and anxiety may be in large part due to our social isolation.
20
Social isolation? What with Facebook and all of the other "social media" that gives us so much? Smartphones and the ease of not having to interact with other real people have ruined this culture and society.
2
I also wondered if Cindy's house is still mortgage-free. Given her age and her recent medical problems, she may fall under her state's vulnerable adult protections. Her complaints about his drinking seem like a flag to me.
I would suggest a conversation with her to get a sense of whether she is really safe and doing okay in the situation, or whether some kind of help is needed. Let her know you are there for her, whether it is to listen or to help move furniture. If you suspect emotional or financial abuse, I would suggest contacting family or a friend (whoever might have her power of attorney).
It's tough to leave an abusive situation at any age. After 60, the medical challenges make it even tougher.
I would suggest a conversation with her to get a sense of whether she is really safe and doing okay in the situation, or whether some kind of help is needed. Let her know you are there for her, whether it is to listen or to help move furniture. If you suspect emotional or financial abuse, I would suggest contacting family or a friend (whoever might have her power of attorney).
It's tough to leave an abusive situation at any age. After 60, the medical challenges make it even tougher.
45
Yes. She could have reverse mortgaged the home.
8
Or she could have taken an an ordinary mortgage loan and given the cash to the boyfriend.
4
Considering LW2's friend has a dissociative disorder (or claims to), it's quite likely the entire cutting and cuddly episode was a fantasy or was a lie told to rile the LW up. That the LW is still so emotionally invested but did nothing 'out of loyalty' for years indicates her friend plays her like a fiddle.
18
Dilemmas.
LW1's concern with Cindy especially given that she had a recent stroke should result in meeting Cindy away from Sean, and kindly but clearly expressing her worries for her friend. She could ask if she needs some concrete help - w/ food, maybe. She doesn't need to hear disapproval or told what to do, but be drawn out to first see how she views this. Contacting her relatives should only be done if she is unable to handle her own affairs, and never behind her back. It may be good to be ready with a list of resources - a lawyers name, or therapy source or small business help - especially if she is exhausted at the moment and unable to think clearly. No rescues - but friendship in action. If the idea is simply to tell Cindy she's in a mess, stay away. She knows it. But don't abandon her after one outreach-stay in touch- and be more intrusive if she needs protection. Just let her tell you her feelings and be aboveboard about what you plan to do.
LW1's concern with Cindy especially given that she had a recent stroke should result in meeting Cindy away from Sean, and kindly but clearly expressing her worries for her friend. She could ask if she needs some concrete help - w/ food, maybe. She doesn't need to hear disapproval or told what to do, but be drawn out to first see how she views this. Contacting her relatives should only be done if she is unable to handle her own affairs, and never behind her back. It may be good to be ready with a list of resources - a lawyers name, or therapy source or small business help - especially if she is exhausted at the moment and unable to think clearly. No rescues - but friendship in action. If the idea is simply to tell Cindy she's in a mess, stay away. She knows it. But don't abandon her after one outreach-stay in touch- and be more intrusive if she needs protection. Just let her tell you her feelings and be aboveboard about what you plan to do.
30
Talk to "Cindy's" family. You think she may have had a minor stroke? You are observing that her once cautious behavior (considering the implications of "Sean" staying past three years) seems to be changing? Intent matters here. The writer's intent is to make sure her friend is OK. Does her family know? What do they think? Likely, if all compare notes, they will find they have more info together than individually.
The Cindy situation is not uncommon. She might actually be quite aware of her situation but uncertain how to leave it. Supportive friends and family will be needed.
The Cindy situation is not uncommon. She might actually be quite aware of her situation but uncertain how to leave it. Supportive friends and family will be needed.
88
I think the writer has the problem here. If the friend were doing something needing stopping now, that would be different. As it is, best to forgive Cindy for the things she asks forgiveness for and say no more.
15
You're talking about the second letter. Not the one about Cindy.
10
It sounds as though Cindy is in need of a direct conversation.....but to prepare yourself for such you might want to review a little bit of literature about emotional abuse, about codependency and borderline behavior.
A few things popped out to me:
- The so called generosity also speaks to impulsivity and a lack of discipline and mastery.
- The life choices she's made have not been fostered on her; she's willingly made them.
I would not focus so much on him taking advantage of her as this is the sort of things that happens in relationships in all sorts of ways. If a woman was the one not working, you might overlay those concerns right? Regardless I would talk with er instead about the state of her current happiness, her goals, and gently ask her questions to see if things are where she wants them to be..... Then go from there.
Listen and don't judge.
A few things popped out to me:
- The so called generosity also speaks to impulsivity and a lack of discipline and mastery.
- The life choices she's made have not been fostered on her; she's willingly made them.
I would not focus so much on him taking advantage of her as this is the sort of things that happens in relationships in all sorts of ways. If a woman was the one not working, you might overlay those concerns right? Regardless I would talk with er instead about the state of her current happiness, her goals, and gently ask her questions to see if things are where she wants them to be..... Then go from there.
Listen and don't judge.
34
The writer of the first letter should approach his friend You mean 'foisted', not 'fostered. Talk to her, but don't paternalistically 'operate' through her relatives or a government agency whose mission is to prevent elder abuse. You said mid-sixties, so she's not really that old.
2
The idea that the teacher/student ethical obligation ends when the student graduates is outrageous and preposterous. The student's attitude to the teacher will not suddenly change and will still have been formed by the teacher/student power imbalance. Even if the student was never a student, engaging in a cutting ritual with them, or anyone, is maladaptive.
77
But the point made is its not illegal.
16
Prof. Appiah seems to belong to the Henry Kissinger school of pedagogy.
You don't stop being someone's teacher when the semester is over. I am still in contact with former students and I would not dream of any sort of physical relationship.
You don't stop being someone's teacher when the semester is over. I am still in contact with former students and I would not dream of any sort of physical relationship.
8
Re Second Letter:
It sounds like you are less bothered by the actual behavior than by the thought that someone is getting away with something. That motive is generally not conducive to achieving a just resolution.
It sounds like you are less bothered by the actual behavior than by the thought that someone is getting away with something. That motive is generally not conducive to achieving a just resolution.
75
Your former friend is mentally ill, physically ill, possibly dying. She has reached out to apologize for many issues. And you want to pile on with an complex issue that may have been an early symptom of disease, may have been weird but ethical and may have been abusive...in one direction or another.
You did nothing when it might have been useful, when it might have been a signal of escalating behavior that could extend to current students.
And now you want to deal with it? Sounds either cruel or selfish to me. Find your own way to deal with it, without inflicting harm on a suffering soul.
You did nothing when it might have been useful, when it might have been a signal of escalating behavior that could extend to current students.
And now you want to deal with it? Sounds either cruel or selfish to me. Find your own way to deal with it, without inflicting harm on a suffering soul.
176
While I share your sentiments here to an extent, this outlook disregards the situation of the 18 yo girl - who should be more prominent in this discussion. I'm not convinced that this wasn't abuse, that this girl was not a victim and that to this day may need closure on what could have been at least a weird experience and more possibly a life altering negative experience. You have an entrusted authority figure affirming self destructive behavior here, and this needs to be looked at.
7
It may be useful to the "victims", if indeed abuse was committed. For them, it may not be too late. Clearly this should have been raised earlier.
2
But it is possible that if it came up in discussion, the friend might be persuaded to contact the (then-18-year-old) woman she engaged in the cutting ritual with, with a view toward making amends toward her, as she has expressed that she is trying to make amends to various people.
On the other hand, she may even have already done this; the LW wouldn't necessarily know about it. Reasonably enough, she probably does not view the LW as someone she needed to make amends to regarding the cutting episode.
On the other hand, she may even have already done this; the LW wouldn't necessarily know about it. Reasonably enough, she probably does not view the LW as someone she needed to make amends to regarding the cutting episode.
The cutting incident sounds dicey, but not illegal. It's the sort of prevarication & hair splitting that says "Well, if we didn't actually kiss, it wasn't cheating, even though we traded suggestive texts for months". The most I could say is that it was VERY poor judgment. True, they kids were over 18 and technically no longer her students. Still… ick. And yet… the letter writer should MYOB.
I looked up dissociative identity disorder, aka "multiple personality disorder". It seems in this case like possibly another way of dodging responsibility, although people with DID may suggest other opinions here. I freely admit to not having direct experience with this particular condition.
I looked up dissociative identity disorder, aka "multiple personality disorder". It seems in this case like possibly another way of dodging responsibility, although people with DID may suggest other opinions here. I freely admit to not having direct experience with this particular condition.
21
There's no ick factor here. The girl was 18, had graduated and is an adult. What about the ick factor of a boss and a subordinate? What about the ick factor of ....? Don't press your judgemental perspectives on others (as like the author).
2
It's one of those diagnoses looked on skeptically now; it was basically a fad diagnosis in the 80s and 90s, at the height of the "recovered memories" craze, where practically everyone had been sexually abused as a child and repressed it, and any self-destructive behavior was a symptom.
Many years ago (before internet!) an older friend of mine had a boyfriend who, similarly, moved in with her, and asked for money for his business, which was "just about to turn a profit." There seemed to be holes in his story but my friend, in love (and in emotional need), did not see them. In the end, he lost his mind and tried to kill her, she called the cops, and he was taken away. During his trial we learned that he had similarly seduced and defrauded other lonely older women.
The writer might conduct a google search of "Sean" and see what evidence emerges of his past behavior.
The writer might conduct a google search of "Sean" and see what evidence emerges of his past behavior.
161
Dreadful responses this week to both letters - the first, condoning a judgmental buttinski, and the second, scolding someone who SHOULD have intervened. The second in particular is not an ethically sound response in the slightest.
8
Why is the man in the illustration for the first letter dark skinned? Was there anything in the letter to indicate the ethnicities of the people in question?
12
Both the man and the woman are dark-skinned in the illustration. Why should white skin be considered the norm, to be broken only under very specific conditions?
52
Sm, I was wondering about that too. Obnoxious.
3
They are both dark skinned. One is slightly darker than the the other, but I don't think it's supposed to mean anything, it just makes the illustration more realistic looking, because people are not uniform shades of skin color.
2
For bankrupting friend: you can't fix stupid. Harsh, but true. Speak with her all you wish. But, DO NOT " lend " her money. Been there, done that. It NEVER ends well.
39
" many years ago ". Statute of limitations. You blew it, and NOW are trying to assuage your guilt. Be a friend, OR mind your own business. At this date, those are your choices. Lesson learned, hopefully.
57
Re the second letter. Come on? An event years ago should be brought up now? Who among us has a clear conscience about all past actions? The writer seems terribly judgement (and one wonders why) and should let it go. The issue would be relevant only if the writer was aware of on-going abuses.
45
Cindy- Go talk to her and explain your fears. She may get mad, or she may not. She'll always know that someone cared enough to alert her to a possible danger. Sounds like she was lonely and found a bum. It's sad, but you can't change history. She might appreciate the warning and might act on it before it's too late.
Consenting student- I think you need a lot more to happen than just graduation to dissolve the student-teacher power dynamic. Most students want to please their teachers for whatever reason, and that continues for many years. This behavior was exploitive. If someone is trying to clean the slate, this should be mentioned. It controlled their lack of a relationship for a long time. Sounds like you're trying to save a relationship that doesn't exist. Why?
Consenting student- I think you need a lot more to happen than just graduation to dissolve the student-teacher power dynamic. Most students want to please their teachers for whatever reason, and that continues for many years. This behavior was exploitive. If someone is trying to clean the slate, this should be mentioned. It controlled their lack of a relationship for a long time. Sounds like you're trying to save a relationship that doesn't exist. Why?
28
"If someone is trying to clean the slate, this should be mentioned."
Maybe, but between the parties involved, not with a third, uninvolved party.
Maybe, but between the parties involved, not with a third, uninvolved party.
3
An 18 year old former student of a high school teacher is "outside the range of trust between teacher and student"?? This is just one of so many things that are dangerously wrong in Dr. of Philosophy Appiah's advice. I am accustomed to Appiah's frequent failures to distinguish between ethics and etiquette, but here he confuses ethics and law - dangerous realm indeed.
Once again, calling on the Times to involve the Public Editor to address this column, and perhaps to shut it down, but certainly to assign a reporter to consult with health and mental health professionals to address this and other recent columns in which Appiah has offered advice based on highly questionable, misleading or blatantly false notions.
Once again, calling on the Times to involve the Public Editor to address this column, and perhaps to shut it down, but certainly to assign a reporter to consult with health and mental health professionals to address this and other recent columns in which Appiah has offered advice based on highly questionable, misleading or blatantly false notions.
75
True that. This has gone past stupid comments about blood transfusions to condoning sexual exploitation of teenage students.
1
I have no issues with his advice. He is technically correct on the relationship between a teacher and a former student who is now of age though does indicate he is not 100% comfortable with this situation, it isn't legally (or ethically) a clear cut case of abuse of power. A situation which certainly should worry people, but both were over 18 and can we assume 'consenting adults' until proven otherwise?
I've met many people who've done messed up things in their times, hell, I've done them myself. Could people be a little less preachy and judgemental? Perhaps we knew what we were doing and had valid reasons for it, however messed up, and perhaps it was cathartic? Maybe not in 'finding god' or 'going to the gym' or some socially acceptable form of catharsis, but hey, not all of us are Brady Bunch material.
I've met many people who've done messed up things in their times, hell, I've done them myself. Could people be a little less preachy and judgemental? Perhaps we knew what we were doing and had valid reasons for it, however messed up, and perhaps it was cathartic? Maybe not in 'finding god' or 'going to the gym' or some socially acceptable form of catharsis, but hey, not all of us are Brady Bunch material.
14
You seemed to have missed the part where he further explained his position, consent when drugs and alcohol are involved, and abusive power dynamics.
The person was 18, which is the age of consent. Is your issue with his acknowledgement of that? Where is his dangerous realm?
The person was 18, which is the age of consent. Is your issue with his acknowledgement of that? Where is his dangerous realm?
12
If the fridge is almost empty, "Cindy's" home may not be mortgage free any longer. "Sean" may be in denial about the behavior that caused him to became bankrupt and homeless and he may be doing the same thing with her assets.
Cindy may need assistance in escaping from Sean. I doubt Sean will let this gravy train go without resistance. She may even need a place to stay for a while. Hope her friend can help her!
Cindy may need assistance in escaping from Sean. I doubt Sean will let this gravy train go without resistance. She may even need a place to stay for a while. Hope her friend can help her!
151
All of this is true, and if it comes to filing for bankruptcy, she will almost certainly lose her paid-off home.
5
I am surprised you didn't interfere earlier. All seems more than a bit late now. Why talking to others first? If "Cindy" is not estranged from her family, why haven't they already tried to get her on track again?