President's Trump pledge to protect the U.S. from foreign and domestic terrorists is manifested in the State Department's order calling for extreme vetting of would be visitors. Regardless that the US has been spared from terror attacks that have plagued France, Germany and Belgium, adding another layer of defense would be prudent. As the Trump administration will commit more US personnel in its fight against Isil, there will be more incentive to attack the US and its soft targets. My concern, with the State Departments budgetary cuts and creating more stringent screening, how can overworked personnel effectively screen hundreths of applicants? By taxing the Department's resources and overwhelming it with an Herculean task of extreme vetting a complete opposite effect might occur, a careless and harried process potentionally creating more of an Isil opportunity rather than a deterrent.
1
As a foreign born and raised who went many times to Us consulates for tourist visas, I've always been facisnated by the level of ignorance Americans have about their own immigration system.
Nothing, I mean absolutely nothing in these "new" rules, except for the ban of 6 countries, differ at all to what has always been done. Visa waivers countries will continue to be so. All others are subject to the same scrutiny and subjective decision of the consul. The only difference is they are being called explicitly by the trump admin, and so "the outrage, the uproar...!" but this is the way it always was.
Why do you think millions of people cross borders illegally, are polizones in ships, swim to Miami shores, overstay visas, marry for green cards, etc? Because it has always been extremely difficult to get US visas, specially in 3rd world countries.
In short, for every one immigrant you see here, there were 50k+ who couldn't get visas.
Nothing, I mean absolutely nothing in these "new" rules, except for the ban of 6 countries, differ at all to what has always been done. Visa waivers countries will continue to be so. All others are subject to the same scrutiny and subjective decision of the consul. The only difference is they are being called explicitly by the trump admin, and so "the outrage, the uproar...!" but this is the way it always was.
Why do you think millions of people cross borders illegally, are polizones in ships, swim to Miami shores, overstay visas, marry for green cards, etc? Because it has always been extremely difficult to get US visas, specially in 3rd world countries.
In short, for every one immigrant you see here, there were 50k+ who couldn't get visas.
9
Look at the smile on Jeff Sessions face, yippee I'm putting tourists who may want to come for a few weeks, who will spend tourist dollars through extreme vetting versus Rex Tillersons facial expression, I had no say, where's the nearest exit. Facial expressions tell all.
3
Some genius finally figured out how to treat the disease--not put a bandaid on the symptom.
No surprise Obama administration never figured this out.
No surprise Obama administration never figured this out.
3
"...would make it tougher for millions of visitors to enter the United States, marking the first sign of the president's "extreme vetting."
Or make it so much easier for Customs and Border Protection officers at the nation's ports of entry to quickly admit bona fide tourists and visitors for business. This will cut down those lines significantly.
Or make it so much easier for Customs and Border Protection officers at the nation's ports of entry to quickly admit bona fide tourists and visitors for business. This will cut down those lines significantly.
4
According to the graphic linked to this article, 62 % of visa applicants from Ghana are denied visas. From my experience with friends' visa applications, this is an overly optimistic number. The business of denying visas to Ghanaians is big business for the US Consulate, as an application cost about $180, the last time a friend, with a full scholarship to a college in the US and a letter of appointment to a full time job in Ghana upon completion of the study, was denied a visa without her documentation being looked at by the interviewer. I don't know how much more "extreme" the vetting could be.
3
And, oh, let's cut the State Department budge by something like 25%................
This isn't governance, it's incredible stupidity.
This isn't governance, it's incredible stupidity.
8
Sounds like tougher vetting of the President's cabinet would be more worthwhile.
9
I hope Tillerson doesn't defect/abscond during his upcoming trip to Moscow.
Don't forget to come home, Rex!
Don't forget to come home, Rex!
5
Got to admire this terrific boost to the tourist industry. Way to go, Donald!
4
Rex W. Tillerson should resign as Secretary of State and stop playing the role. The Trump Administration is morally and ethically bankrupt.
4
This new White House order will "slow down the screening process" of visa applicants and "impose a substantial burden" on the consular staff at US embassies abroad. The State Department itself is under siege, facing swingeing budget cuts by a hostile administration. Its chief, Rex Tillerson said a few days ago that he didn't want the job in the first place.
Interest in travel to the US has taken a nosedive since Trump’s election, according to travel agencies who have reported a significant drop in flight searches and bookings since his inauguration and controversial travel ban.
Interest in travel to the US has taken a nosedive since Trump’s election, according to travel agencies who have reported a significant drop in flight searches and bookings since his inauguration and controversial travel ban.
4
The essential problem is that most terrorist attacks in America are being carried out by Americans. Maybe we should do a better job of keeping assault weapons out of the hands of people living here.
19
The latest attacks were committed by someone a British citizenship and from an Israeli citizenship. A white United States citizen stabbed an African-American man with a sword and killed him. Will the Trump Administration seek to make us all feel safer by not only creating tougher screening for those from Muslim Countries, but those from European (Ireland, etc) and Canadian countries? We will never feel safe if we chose to only screen people from countries where the people have brown skin. Screening visas must include Europe and Canada.
4
If you have a problem with these enhanced vetting, think about it like new regulations from the EPA. The harder steps are put there to protect people.
4
Native Americans could have used the trump crowd to keep the really rowdy terrorists out of America in 1492.
We asked the so-called President Trump team to review these questions but at press time have still not gotten a response because the A-team is ready to emasculate Ryan who was stupid enough to trust trump's horse manure about making the deal. But who knows? This could be another upset in the making!
So here goes:
1) Are you foreigners from Germany, France, Great Britain or Spain? If so, you can't come here because we know all you want to do is fight, ruin the environment, etc.
2) Are any of you immigrants religious, specifically, believers in any form of Christianity? If so, we have seen what damage you do to each other and people who are Islamic, so again, you cannot come here.
3) Are any of you slaves, indentured servants, or otherwise denied simple human and civil rights? If so, again you can't come here. We know that within just a few years you will turn on us, each other, women, Africans, newer arrivals, etc.
4) Are any of you white? Again, no entry. whites have a terrible history of hatred and abuse of non-whites.
5) Are any of you coming here to enrich yourselves by abusing the land, water, air and soil and the natural elements? Again, go home. We enjoy mostly peace and love and our Spirits say to us that the people and the land are special and holy and to be preserved.
So go in Peace, a condition that is foreign to you.
We asked the so-called President Trump team to review these questions but at press time have still not gotten a response because the A-team is ready to emasculate Ryan who was stupid enough to trust trump's horse manure about making the deal. But who knows? This could be another upset in the making!
So here goes:
1) Are you foreigners from Germany, France, Great Britain or Spain? If so, you can't come here because we know all you want to do is fight, ruin the environment, etc.
2) Are any of you immigrants religious, specifically, believers in any form of Christianity? If so, we have seen what damage you do to each other and people who are Islamic, so again, you cannot come here.
3) Are any of you slaves, indentured servants, or otherwise denied simple human and civil rights? If so, again you can't come here. We know that within just a few years you will turn on us, each other, women, Africans, newer arrivals, etc.
4) Are any of you white? Again, no entry. whites have a terrible history of hatred and abuse of non-whites.
5) Are any of you coming here to enrich yourselves by abusing the land, water, air and soil and the natural elements? Again, go home. We enjoy mostly peace and love and our Spirits say to us that the people and the land are special and holy and to be preserved.
So go in Peace, a condition that is foreign to you.
3
I don't remember the details of my applications for SECRET clearance, and renewals of the clearance. However, the new visa application requirements concerning documentation of one's whereabouts seem comparably, if not more, demanding. Perhaps Times reporters will find the details.
Should successful visa applicants under this new regime be awarded security clearances In addition to visas?
Should successful visa applicants under this new regime be awarded security clearances In addition to visas?
5
What is wrong with the many posters objecting to this on phony PC grounds? This is being done to make our country safer. Anyone have a problem with that?
6
It isn't, and won't. That's our problem with that.
11
Bill it's obvious that you think you know more than the entire State Department and the US government as to what will and won't make America safer.
4
Does extreme vetting mean they have to show us their tax returns?
11
You might not be so smug and rude if you or a loved one were the victim of a terrorist attack. But hey, all these discussions are a partisan joke, right?
5
Does not matter, as the visa interviewers at the consulate do not look at your tax returns, bank statement, letter from employer, deed to your house, registration papers of your business, your passport full of multiple entry stamps from many other foreign countries, etc etc. Maybe if they DID actually look at the documents submitted by applicants, they could learn something about them? Takes too long, when there are 100 applicants in the waiting room, and 3 staff to process these interviews. This was before the Trump budget cut the State Department even more than it had been cut by the last congress. Tired, harassed, overworked people are not good "screeners" either.
3
This move will not only alienate moderate people living abroad but might stir the peace here as well with its anti-immigration sentiment. This is a prime example of governance without data.
As for talented people around the world, they will find better avenues than going through this hassle to come to the US. Sadly, at this point the US government has made clear enough that they do not want immigrants of any type (under their blanket bans).
As for talented people around the world, they will find better avenues than going through this hassle to come to the US. Sadly, at this point the US government has made clear enough that they do not want immigrants of any type (under their blanket bans).
6
So let them be alienated. P.S. Your argument is a canard. Talented people will always come here, ALWAYS. Why? More $$$ to be made here if you have that talent.
6
In busy posts, sometimes referred to as "visa mills", Consular Officers routinely conduct in excess of 100 interviews per day for all classes on non-immigrant visas. In most cases the interviews are conducted in the language of the country in which the Embassy or Consulate is located. Interviews are generally no more than five minutes in length, frequently less. The good news is that Consular officers see the results of an applicant's biometrics check which compares fingerprints, etc. to several pertinent data bases. The system works well in terms of identifying potential terrorists, criminals, and those who have broken U.S. immigration law. The secondary purpose is to try to determine if an applicant will use the visa correctly. The countries included in the visa waiver program are so designated because travelers from those countries have demonstrated the best use of their visas.
5
My sister-in-law has been on a waiting list to become a legal immigrant to the US from the Philippines for over 21 years. I have learned that US and Philippino consular officials will accept 10,000 US dollars to move anyone forward on the list. To visit she would need a large bank account in the Philippines. Unfortunately she is not able to swim across the Pacific Ocean. She is now over 40 years old and is a qualified nurse whose tuition I paid.
3
I know several Filipino professionals, in and out of the medical community, who arrived here on H1B visas. Can't your SIL find a corporate sponsor? I would think qualified medical professionals would be given some priority, especially if there is no additional certification required for license to practice.
it's quite clear that Trump supporters are ignorant of current practices. This is another nonsense edict. And who is going to do the work - the State dept. funding is on the chopping block. Big mouths but hollow ideas!
13
I wonder if any of these bozos have any idea just how tough the visa system really is?
I've been through it having applied for both tourist and immigration visas for my Ecuadorian wife.
It is a lengthy ( two years for immigration visa) often onerous and insulting process requiring multiple document submissions and numerous fee payments (expensive). After a particularly rude and insulting "personal interview" , requiring travel to the U.S. Consulate in the southern part of the country, I finally lost it and fired off a rather pointed email criticizing the fellow American who conducted the very impersonal "personal interview" , from behind bulletproof glass, for his insulting and disrespectful attitude toward my wife and me.
That email prompted a call from a security officer stationed at the Embassy in Quito requesting that we have a "chat". He was a very professional young guy and listened to my recounting of the interview , taking thorough notes and promising to relay his report to the consular officials in Guayaquil.
Six months later my wife received her immigration visa and green card status.
I do understand the need to be thorough for security's sake. However, it is important that the process be conducted with dignity and respect for all parties concerned because the process is laborious, frustrating and costly.
I've been through it having applied for both tourist and immigration visas for my Ecuadorian wife.
It is a lengthy ( two years for immigration visa) often onerous and insulting process requiring multiple document submissions and numerous fee payments (expensive). After a particularly rude and insulting "personal interview" , requiring travel to the U.S. Consulate in the southern part of the country, I finally lost it and fired off a rather pointed email criticizing the fellow American who conducted the very impersonal "personal interview" , from behind bulletproof glass, for his insulting and disrespectful attitude toward my wife and me.
That email prompted a call from a security officer stationed at the Embassy in Quito requesting that we have a "chat". He was a very professional young guy and listened to my recounting of the interview , taking thorough notes and promising to relay his report to the consular officials in Guayaquil.
Six months later my wife received her immigration visa and green card status.
I do understand the need to be thorough for security's sake. However, it is important that the process be conducted with dignity and respect for all parties concerned because the process is laborious, frustrating and costly.
7
The biggest threat to a safe and sane life, living well and in a productive community with safe guards in the USA is the alt Christians that live here already.
They love and elected Trump — the anti-$ocial president. They are also ant-social. They fawn at the feet of oligarchs that insanely disdain the people that they are tax exempt charged to serve. They don't care about babies or families — just want your votes to enact the 1% theft. Unreality TV so to speak.
They love and elected Trump — the anti-$ocial president. They are also ant-social. They fawn at the feet of oligarchs that insanely disdain the people that they are tax exempt charged to serve. They don't care about babies or families — just want your votes to enact the 1% theft. Unreality TV so to speak.
5
This week the African Global Economic and Development Summit was held in California. There were NO nationals from African countries in attendance. Every single African citizen who requested a visa was rejected. I've spent a significant amount of time in West Africa, and I know the painful process that so many people endure only to be denied a temporary VISA. These are often very highly qualified professionals with letters of invitation from US institutions. They are denied and given no reason for their dismissal. I can't fathom how this process could be any tougher... or absurd. For details on the African summit without Africans, see the Guardian's article https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/20/no-african-citizens-visa...
11
Maybe they don't want any more Africans in the country because the next step (after Mexicans & Muslims) will be to get all African Americans back to Africa.
At this point, I would put nothing past them.
At this point, I would put nothing past them.
1
Cutting off Medusa's head at the root.
Excellent.
Excellent.
5
Seems to me that we should be “extreme vetting” our potential Cabinet members. What could it hurt?
The current crop has the potential to do great harm to the United States.
They represent “radical Conservative terrorism” and should be targeted for extra scrutiny.
They pose a serious threat to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
WE can implement protocols and procedures that will make us all feel safer and more secure. We can ask for a 15-year travel and work history.
And then maybe we would not be looking at such a drastic reduction in State Dept funding.
"A political society does not live to conduct foreign policy; it would be more correct to say that it conducts foreign policy in order to live."
-------- George Kennan
The current crop has the potential to do great harm to the United States.
They represent “radical Conservative terrorism” and should be targeted for extra scrutiny.
They pose a serious threat to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
WE can implement protocols and procedures that will make us all feel safer and more secure. We can ask for a 15-year travel and work history.
And then maybe we would not be looking at such a drastic reduction in State Dept funding.
"A political society does not live to conduct foreign policy; it would be more correct to say that it conducts foreign policy in order to live."
-------- George Kennan
5
Because of threats against the civilized world, as witnessed in London this week, the US must make it more difficult for foreigners to enter America for whatever reason. I agree with whatever measures are taken by the State Department, now under the leadership of Rex Tillerson, to determine if a foreigner is suitable to issue a visa. I believe the application process should include a polygraph test to detect deception on the part of the applicant. If deception is detected the applicant shall be placed on list of rejected applicants never to be allowed into the USA. We don’t need any deception kind of people here, especially from foreign countries. Thank you.
3
"Because of threats against the civilized world, as witnessed in London this week, the US must make it more difficult for foreigners to enter America for whatever reason."...The threat you refer to was carried out by a British born citizen who had converted to Islam. It would seem we are in far more danger from people living among us than we are from foreign visitors.
5
Why should we need any "deception kind of people here" from foreign countries, when we have enough of our own right here in Washington D.C.? .....Thank you.
5
How about administering a polygraph to the current occupant of the White HOuse. You OK with that?
4
Lets break this down and detail what it clearly means, shall we ?
~ If you are white, educated and come from a western country = welcome
~ if you are other, then you may get in on a work visa to work for a conglomerate for minuscule pay and no security\benefits ( indentured servitude )
I guess if you are lucky, you get to work @ MarALago or other property owned by this administration.
Welcome.
~ If you are white, educated and come from a western country = welcome
~ if you are other, then you may get in on a work visa to work for a conglomerate for minuscule pay and no security\benefits ( indentured servitude )
I guess if you are lucky, you get to work @ MarALago or other property owned by this administration.
Welcome.
8
Someone should tell them that the vetting process is pretty tough already in the countries they are concerned about and most countries. What a bunch of ignorant people -- wasting our tax dollars, rehashing all the policies that are in place - -coming up with none of their own -- no vision, no intelligence and most of all no humanity. They are all about money -- and we are footing the bill for all of this for the next 4 years. What a disgrace.
8
They aren't wasting tax dollars, because Trump is cutting the State Dept budget significantly. Of course that raises the question as to how this extra vetting can occur. The answer is that this is another way to implement the Muslim ban that is being challenged in court.
Why can't foreign countries improve their economies and living conditions to the point where millions of Americans would want to flood their borders for a change?
10
Just wait awhile. If Paul Ryan and the Republican Congress have their way we will soon be living in a shrunken Federal Government third world country, and lots of folks will want to be leaving.
4
You are asking about people who want to come here to live. But the article refers to new State Dept orders that pertain to most people seeing visas, such as tourists, business people, and family members of people legally living here.
2
Actually, there are upwards of 11 MILLION expats(NOT counting military), of which I am one. So yes, there are many who emigrate from the US "flooding" other borders. Am living in Norway, with full health care, free university for my child, and other benefits unavailable in the US. Headhunted here due to a specialist education. Oh, and I have 5 undocumented family members. They arrived in North America, on a little boat named "Mayflower". Eventually documented by history.
2
It's Canada's 150th birthday and the tourists will know where their welcome "Canada".
Toronto is looking for a banner tourist year. Thank you, Mr. Trump
Toronto is looking for a banner tourist year. Thank you, Mr. Trump
4
Who and what are we supposed to be afraid of? If I lived my life like Donald Trump and his GOP cabal, I'd be afraid. If you treat others with kindness, fairness, dignity and respect, others will treat you the same way in return. If you bully and berate others, don't be surprised if you get bullied and berated in return. The immigration hullabaloo feels like bullying by the American uber rich of both the American people and people of other countries who want to travel to the U.S. for business or pleasure.
1
If their is an imminent threat from people coming to this country,why did President elect D Trump not convene a special commission on Nov 5 to figure out how to do this on day one of his admin
I mean, if it is really a problem, what took them almost 5 months after the election ?
bigly sad !!
I mean, if it is really a problem, what took them almost 5 months after the election ?
bigly sad !!
2
All Visas should have a probation period of up to two years whereby people are monitored and any suspect contact or social media interaction with known terrorist organizations or sympathizers would warrant immediate deportation. The State Dept. should have the right to immediately revoke a visa at their discretion without lengthy court proceedings.
2
Another solution in search of a problem.
Oh boy!
Oh boy!
3
Like many other Trump promises, it sounds good, but it does not work in practice. Most foreign terrorist organizations are smart enough to get around "extreme vetting" by using visa waiver terrorists or lying in the interview. How about something useful like not letting people on the no-fly list buy guns? If you are scary enough that we don't let you fly, you should not be able to get a gun.
8
It's all just window dressing. So far the Trump administration is like a Potemkin village.
11
A mostly all-White Male Potemkin village.
5
Polygraph should be part of the extreme vetting process.
4
We could test this on politicians. The trouble is the test depends on a subconscious understanding of the truth. Well, maybe we could get another test group.
3
One quick read-through of the visa waiver program reinforces the prejudice that US immigration policy has always had against people of color: South Korea, Taiwan, and Singapore (long a British colony) are the exceptions for Asians due to military and economic ties. Other than that, the primary embracing factor for the nations given waiver status, including Eastern European nations that are highly susceptible to radical influences, is that their populations are historically Caucasian. Iowan representative Steven King would be proud of this institutionalized drive toward making America white again, and this administrative decision reinforces the policy.
9
the visa waiver program reinforces [your own] prejudices.
1. If you had even looked before spouting off:
Under the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015, travelers in the following categories are no longer eligible to travel or be admitted to the United States under the VWP:
- Nationals of VWP countries who have traveled to or been present in Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, or Yemen on or after March 1, 2011 (with limited exceptions for travel for diplomatic or military purposes in the service of a VWP country).
- Nationals of VWP countries who are also nationals of Iran, Iraq, Sudan, or Syria.
NOTE: it was 2015 thus these "additional" policies against "people of color" were by none other Pres. Obama.
Now go figure that one? Perhaps it it really is just about the security?
1. If you had even looked before spouting off:
Under the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015, travelers in the following categories are no longer eligible to travel or be admitted to the United States under the VWP:
- Nationals of VWP countries who have traveled to or been present in Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, or Yemen on or after March 1, 2011 (with limited exceptions for travel for diplomatic or military purposes in the service of a VWP country).
- Nationals of VWP countries who are also nationals of Iran, Iraq, Sudan, or Syria.
NOTE: it was 2015 thus these "additional" policies against "people of color" were by none other Pres. Obama.
Now go figure that one? Perhaps it it really is just about the security?
4
Too many visa cards are being issued without proper debt capacity vetting! Glad The Donald is taking the lead! Other visa vetting is just related to the usual anti-1st amendment actions but projected abroad.
3
33,000 gun deaths per year. 34,000 motor vehicle deaths per year. 88,000 alcohol-related deaths per year. 3500 terrorism deaths... since 1995.
Seems to me like we're making up problems to justify hatred.
Seems to me like we're making up problems to justify hatred.
20
I disagree.
They don't need to makeup anything for their H8tred. It's intrinsic.
They don't need to makeup anything for their H8tred. It's intrinsic.
9
Motor vehicle deaths are up to 40,000 in 2016. Absolutely catastrophic, also if you compare the per capita to other developed countries.
3
REALITY: putting the brakes on will lower risk also expel he visa overstays while the supreme court overturns the 9th circuit ruling and we increase border security QED
7
How will the Supreme Court overturn the 9th Circuit if the US hasn't sought review? Probably because they know they can't win.
But the brakes are on! Getting in is already hard. And why did Trump's original order not ban the really bad countries, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan? And so much terrorism is now homegrown, as in London this week, and previously in the States.
2
all fine and good but where is the money for the State department to complete these checks in a reasonable amount of time to allow people to travel for business and to see family?
4
They have no interest in completing these checks in a reasonable amount of time to allow people to travel for business and to see family. If people are locked out, they see that as a feature, not a bug.
Last week, there was an African trade conference in California: not *one* African made it through the visa process to get here. And that was *before* these new guidelines.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/20/no-african-citizens-visa...
Similarly, if blue states lose travel revenue, this would not trouble the Trump administration. If we make more enemies and trigger more terrorist attacks by people who are already here, they only gain political leverage.
It's all part of the destruction that Steve Bannon has explicitly stated that he desires, or -- at minimum -- views as inevitable.
Last week, there was an African trade conference in California: not *one* African made it through the visa process to get here. And that was *before* these new guidelines.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/20/no-african-citizens-visa...
Similarly, if blue states lose travel revenue, this would not trouble the Trump administration. If we make more enemies and trigger more terrorist attacks by people who are already here, they only gain political leverage.
It's all part of the destruction that Steve Bannon has explicitly stated that he desires, or -- at minimum -- views as inevitable.
2
Obviously, if you're a terrorist who come in under Visa waiver from a Visa waiver country.
3
Or, you come from another state -- Just like that man from Baltimore, who came here to kill Black men...that's "terrorism", isn't it??
4
Ha! Tougher screening?!
Well, on Monday, I attended my Fiance's K-1 Visa interview, and she required a litany of official documents for herself and from me. None of which were ever needed! And the interview only lasted 5 minutes as well, so yeah, about that "extreme vetting"...
Well, on Monday, I attended my Fiance's K-1 Visa interview, and she required a litany of official documents for herself and from me. None of which were ever needed! And the interview only lasted 5 minutes as well, so yeah, about that "extreme vetting"...
6
Maybe you benefitted from the timing of this.
Best wishes for you and your fiance.
Best wishes for you and your fiance.
Vet Trump's Mouthing Off for God's Sake!
The Washington Post Fact-check for his first 63 days in office counts well over 600 false claims and misleading statements.
EEEEEEEEEKS!!
Many are rated as 4 Pinocchios!!!
The Washington Post Fact-check for his first 63 days in office counts well over 600 false claims and misleading statements.
EEEEEEEEEKS!!
Many are rated as 4 Pinocchios!!!
10
Time to hire AMericans first and at a living wage.
Each and every year our gov't hands out hundreds of 1,000's of worker visas such as H-1Bs and J-1s and others like candy at Halloween. We give work visas to ice cream scoopers, house painters, maids, t-shirt folders and dishwashers. They are not all going to rural doctors, nurses and the like.
Each and every year our gov't hands out hundreds of 1,000's of worker visas such as H-1Bs and J-1s and others like candy at Halloween. We give work visas to ice cream scoopers, house painters, maids, t-shirt folders and dishwashers. They are not all going to rural doctors, nurses and the like.
10
They're looking for Muslim terrorists. The Muslim ban didn't work, twice, so they're going about it another worry. Don't worry, your ice cream scoopers and as well as your technical H1B visa holders will still be coming.
And that "living wage" thing? That went out with Bernie Sanders.
And that "living wage" thing? That went out with Bernie Sanders.
10
What Law(s) do you want passed that would pay only Americans a certain Living Wage, oh and have those Americans qualified for the job?
4
Technical H1B visa holders are supported by families in their home countries, so they can come here and work for less than American citizens who have spent big money to get those degrees. India, Pakistan and China send a lot of H1B visa holders here. There is a requirement that employers show they cannot find equivalent Americans to hire; it is not enforced. This program should be re-visited and preference given to American graduates who will be paid an American living wage. This is a corporate welfare program, one of many.
1
I guess this means they will have to start scrutinizing the applicants life at the two months into fetus level.
6
Success has many fathers.
Hey - Visa waiver countries are not included in extra vetting? Actually, citizens of visa-waiver countries do not even go through basic vetting because they never go to an embassy/consulate for a visa application. Seems like a massive security gap, considering that citizens of France, England and other countries have committed terrorist acts.
Does that make any sense from a security perspective - No! But we wouldn't want to upset Europeans. Just tighten the rules and make it more difficult for the brown and black people.
Does that make any sense from a security perspective - No! But we wouldn't want to upset Europeans. Just tighten the rules and make it more difficult for the brown and black people.
15
Too bad Trump's policy ideas aren't subjected to extreme vetting. If they were, our nation wouldn't be saddled with such profound incompetence.
12
The increased scrutiny at the border will be a deterrent to world travelers from all countries. As entry to the US becomes more cumbersome, people from around the world will avoid traveling to the US. Who needs the hassle of uncertainty and delays. Plenty of vacations spots around the globe that are welcoming and easy to visit. Trump's vision of the USA is unwelcoming and unfriendly. The US will lose its international appeal as freedoms erodes.
9
Most of the real tourists come from visa waiver countries.
Real tourists come to sightsee and shop and spend money.
Real tourists do not come to overstay their visa and stay on and work illegally and soak up government benefits.
Real tourists come mostly from visa waiver countries such as Canada, European countries (other than a few like Russia), Australia, Japan and Taiwan.
Most real tourists do not come from countries in Africa, Latin America or the Middle East or India or other countries in Asia (other than a few like Japan or Taiwan).
Half of all illegal immigrants are visa overstays.
And nearly all of them come from Africa, Latin America, the Middle East or India or other countries in Asia (other than a few like Japan and Taiwan).
Indeed, half of visa overstays are from Mexico, Central America and other countries in Latin America -- that's on top of the half of all legal immigrants who cross the southern border illegally.
Real tourists come to sightsee and shop and spend money.
Real tourists do not come to overstay their visa and stay on and work illegally and soak up government benefits.
Real tourists come mostly from visa waiver countries such as Canada, European countries (other than a few like Russia), Australia, Japan and Taiwan.
Most real tourists do not come from countries in Africa, Latin America or the Middle East or India or other countries in Asia (other than a few like Japan or Taiwan).
Half of all illegal immigrants are visa overstays.
And nearly all of them come from Africa, Latin America, the Middle East or India or other countries in Asia (other than a few like Japan and Taiwan).
Indeed, half of visa overstays are from Mexico, Central America and other countries in Latin America -- that's on top of the half of all legal immigrants who cross the southern border illegally.
5
Actually, if you do the math, 120 visa application interviews in an eight-hour day would not average five minutes but four minutes per applicant.
And that's not allowing any time between visa interviews or time for the consular officer to check emails or attend staff meetings.
As Tillerson said in his cable, all visa decisions are national security decisions. If the State Department is really proposing consular officers interview 120 applicants per day, then the Department is giving consular officers less than four minutes to review each application, interview the applicant and make a snap decision affecting national security. Maybe the State Department needs to reconsider that pace of decision-making.
And that's not allowing any time between visa interviews or time for the consular officer to check emails or attend staff meetings.
As Tillerson said in his cable, all visa decisions are national security decisions. If the State Department is really proposing consular officers interview 120 applicants per day, then the Department is giving consular officers less than four minutes to review each application, interview the applicant and make a snap decision affecting national security. Maybe the State Department needs to reconsider that pace of decision-making.
4
Surprised that Tillerson deigns to see the light of day after hiding during his Eastern "diplomatic mission" to make oil deals with Putin and other pals, or that Sessions isn't down in the bunker destroying documents of all HIS contacts with the Russians and US hate-groups.
THESE two are our two highest cabinet-level officers? Think about that for a moment...
THESE two are our two highest cabinet-level officers? Think about that for a moment...
8
If it makes it tougher for terrorists to come here under the guise of being a "student" or tourist so be it. Our safety must come first.
10
Please cite an example of a terrorist attack by someone who came here on a student or tourist visa.
4
Yeah, cause we're being overrun with them now. Not!
Your are much more likely to be hurt/killed by someone you already know then be caught in a foreign born act of terrorism. Your/others fear is unfounded and illogical. Be more alert to the real risks already around you.
Your are much more likely to be hurt/killed by someone you already know then be caught in a foreign born act of terrorism. Your/others fear is unfounded and illogical. Be more alert to the real risks already around you.
8
The parents of the Tsarnaev brothers aka Boston bombers reached the United States on tourist visas and applied for asylum.
8
For the Trump administration what does tougher screening mean? It's simple, the first thing you do is look at the name and if has an Arab ring to it, put the application in the reject file. If they pass the name test, you go to the skin test. If the skin is on the dark side, put application in the reject file. And lastly, if they pass the name test and the skin test, go to the bank test and ask. do they have enough capital to contribute to the Trump agenda? This screening procedure should solve any problem that comes with refugees. Remember, Trump is an expert at this as he set up an effective screening process for selecting and rejecting tenants who wanted to rent apartments in his buildings.
7
DSS, your country enforces its immigration laws so you have only a few thousand undocumented immigrants. We have not been diligently enforcing our immigration laws with the result that we have well over 11 million undocumented people living here, most of them with little education and in need of many government services and subsidies.
Unless your country decides to accept a percentage of the undocumented Mexicans, Central Americans, and N. Africans who are now living in the U.S. illegally, you should not be criticizing us. What about taking half of them?
Unless your country decides to accept a percentage of the undocumented Mexicans, Central Americans, and N. Africans who are now living in the U.S. illegally, you should not be criticizing us. What about taking half of them?
3
If they are undocumented, how does anyone know how many there are?
2
ed g, this is an excellent question. From what I have been able to gather, the number is from information collected by the Census Bureau. The problem with this, as pointed out on the Bureau’s own web site, in a paper by Eric B. Jensen, Renuka Bhaskar, and Melissa Scopilliti, is that there are many reasons why the undocumented would not give information to the Bureau. These population researchers conclude that foreign-born Hispanic males are likely the most undercounted group.
As foreign-born Hispanic males compose the largest percentage of undocumented workers, many think that the true number of undocumented immigrants is much higher than 11 to 12 million. Some anti-immigrant groups say there are 30 million or more immigrants living here illegally.
As foreign-born Hispanic males compose the largest percentage of undocumented workers, many think that the true number of undocumented immigrants is much higher than 11 to 12 million. Some anti-immigrant groups say there are 30 million or more immigrants living here illegally.
I'll say it again. This is just politics and deprives our country of many good people we need here.
7
How about tougher screening of oil imports, e.g. KXL et al.
3
Want to know a key reason why we must screen visa applicants so carefully? Here it is 2017 and this country has no system for determining whether a visa holder who enters the country ever leaves. The only way we have to curb visa overstays is by being really careful who gets a visa in the first place. What a bassackwards approach!
12
Yes, we have no system for determining whether someone overstays a visa. But no, the new rules have no relevance to that.
2
When foreigners enter the USA they must fill out a form, which gives their projected address in the USA, and hand it in to immigration. When people leave they must hand in the carbon copy of that form--so yes, we know who leaves.
If they haven't left, immigration can, in theory, visit the address to see if they're there.
Of course, any immigrant planning to overstay gives a false address....
If they haven't left, immigration can, in theory, visit the address to see if they're there.
Of course, any immigrant planning to overstay gives a false address....
1
Immigration is so underfunded they do not have staff to travel all over the place to check on overstays. The whole system is full of loopholes.
1
I'd like to request that we "extremely vet" anyone running for U.S. president.
Thank you.
Thank you.
21
How about tougher screening on Trump and his make Russia great again advisors and cabinet members?
16
But that would be "wiretapppping"?
Allowing unelected bureaucrats craft policies and regulations that essentially amount to laws has been expanding exponentially for years with little if any accountability. How's that working out now?
4
Well done Mr. President !
6
You're saying this because more tourists will now visit Italy, instead of the US...
I for sure will skip America, and go visit beautiful Italy.
I for sure will skip America, and go visit beautiful Italy.
3
Will the vetting be applied to the angry white males who disproportionately commit acts of terrorism in this country, as per statistical evidence? Or is this just meant to be another unconstitutional discrimination based on religion and ethnicity?
20
This claim is ridiculous. Just because you make a statement with the extra words per statistical evidence doesnt mean it is true.
4
There are studies of who commits mass murders in the U.S. The studies show that mass murders are committed by men, predominantly angry young white men who have not succeeded in life. We are a competitive society.
I agree with the tougher screening of applicants for visas to enter the United States of America. We live in perilous times and must know every detail about the people who wish to visit our nation. We have to be certain that they will return back to their homeland and not become part of ours. Thank you.
7
Right, because people never lie about their true intentions.
FYI; Our homeland (so Hitlerian) is nothing but immigrants in some manner. You do know that being of white European heritage is not native to these lands....?
FYI; Our homeland (so Hitlerian) is nothing but immigrants in some manner. You do know that being of white European heritage is not native to these lands....?
11
BoRegard, it isn't Hitlerian if you can speak your mind and not be dragged off to a concentration camp. I enjoy this freedom and want to protect it.
I was referencing Hitlers use of the term. Despots love the term.
1
We once believed that bringing the citizens of poor countries to America was the best way to promote American interests. In the 1960s, the African Airlift brought the brightest Africans to America to help prepare them for independence. One of those Africans, Hussein Obama, married an American and gave this country Barack H. Obama Jr. Today, we are now telling the world maybe you are not welcome, because our government is confusing nationality with law enforcement.
For those who have never traveled to the third world, extreme vetting is already the policy at our embassies. There is an almost impossible bureaucratic maze of rules and restrictions in place to keep the third world out of the USA, all administered by strict consular officers sitting behind thick protective glass, in embassies shielded by high walls, razor wire, CCTV and the constant presence of US Marines. The simply act of physically entering one of our embassies is so difficult that it is all but impossible for most third world citizens. Any additional measures will simply mean do not bother coming to America. Some will try and sneak in the back way, but most of the gifted and talented will simply go to China and/or India.
Add to this Trump's proposal to scale back the foreign service, and the only way most people will get to know who we as American's will be collateral damage after we drone kill a terrorist or god forbid when junior Trump shoots an elephant on safari.
For those who have never traveled to the third world, extreme vetting is already the policy at our embassies. There is an almost impossible bureaucratic maze of rules and restrictions in place to keep the third world out of the USA, all administered by strict consular officers sitting behind thick protective glass, in embassies shielded by high walls, razor wire, CCTV and the constant presence of US Marines. The simply act of physically entering one of our embassies is so difficult that it is all but impossible for most third world citizens. Any additional measures will simply mean do not bother coming to America. Some will try and sneak in the back way, but most of the gifted and talented will simply go to China and/or India.
Add to this Trump's proposal to scale back the foreign service, and the only way most people will get to know who we as American's will be collateral damage after we drone kill a terrorist or god forbid when junior Trump shoots an elephant on safari.
15
According to your logic only scientists and nuclear physicists come to this country from foreign lands. We are not the nations innkeeper. We are not in the business to take in every foreigner that wishes to grace our shores.
5
I seem to recall that America was created and ran for centuries as a nation that would take anyone and everyone who survived the journey and spilled onto her shores, whereby they enthusiastically took to doing their best to wipe out and eradicate the indigenous peoples who were already living there, in addition to raiding other countries to bring kidnapped slaves over en masse to further create America.
All of which you conveniently discard as you shudder at the thought of more foreigners joining today.
We in the rest of the World - including your oldest allies - are watching what you say and think very, very closely indeed.
All of which you conveniently discard as you shudder at the thought of more foreigners joining today.
We in the rest of the World - including your oldest allies - are watching what you say and think very, very closely indeed.
5
Osama bin Laden, 9/11/01. He alone changed how America began to rethink immigration abroad.
4
In USA preventable/avoidable deaths in hospitals is over 400,000 annually, third leading cause of deaths overall. Should we not focus more on that than the very rare death by terrorism and even more rare death by foreign born terrorists.
?
?
9
Your forgot another cause of death that is not mentioned when it comes to death caused by a terrorist refugee, GUNS!
1
S Brady— I am amazed at your succinct and important thinking. It's the USA Health Care, stupid. We are stupid. We never even transitioned to the metric system. When we could have easily!
We cannot manage first world Health Care, nor safe environment planning and regulations, fair taxation, and quality education at the expense of billionaires paying fair wages and taxes, etc.. We are now one of the worst country's to live in and try to be happy, work and survive. We alternately elect uncaring oligarchs that love war and hate paying for them.
God forgive us. You warned us.
We cannot manage first world Health Care, nor safe environment planning and regulations, fair taxation, and quality education at the expense of billionaires paying fair wages and taxes, etc.. We are now one of the worst country's to live in and try to be happy, work and survive. We alternately elect uncaring oligarchs that love war and hate paying for them.
God forgive us. You warned us.
1
Since 9/11 lawn mowers have killed eight times more Americans than Islamic terrorists.
2
Does Donald et al really want the US to go into a recession. On the front page today - GOP want to see many healthcare providers to go out of business by no longer funding 10 services and now targetting the tourism industry. Just yesterday, Canada is no longer sending student to US because of unnecessaary harrassment of their citizens at the border.
This is all pretty much insane. Oh but wait, Tillerson is also really busy downsizing State, so he can blame "lazy workers". sigh.
This is all pretty much insane. Oh but wait, Tillerson is also really busy downsizing State, so he can blame "lazy workers". sigh.
10
As an American living in Canada, how about all those Americans coming across out border to buy stuff and take vacations cause it is cheaper here than back home. So Trump is going to bring back jobs and encourage "buy in America" when the people buy outside cause it's cheaper. Kind of ironic!
3
Does this include India? If they are so concerned about Muslims, then there are H1B visa holders that are Indian and Muslim. Or maybe the question I should be asking is : are there any Trump hotels in India? Because we all know that is the only decision used in this administration for policy decisions.
I do agree with Walker on the gun violence in this country. If guns had been as readily available in the UK as here, the deaths would have been much higher.
I do agree with Walker on the gun violence in this country. If guns had been as readily available in the UK as here, the deaths would have been much higher.
2
I am sure Trumps received votes because of his stance on limiting it revising the badly abused so-called skilled worker visas, the H1b, L1 and B1 visas. I am expecting increased vetting of foreign workers. In my experience, the so-called skilled workers using this visa have no particular advantage over American workers except for their lower rate of pay.
4
Don't hold your breath. Lower rate of pay is all that matters to Mr T and friends.
Not sure what your point was. Indians are predominantly (more than 80%) NOT Muslim. Are you concerned about their Muslims coming here on H1B or Indians in general? As for Trump hotels - they are there in India.
Answering the additional information listed like travel history, addresses etc (except for email & social media accounts) is already a thing that the consular officer can ask from many Muslim applicants from a list of 26 countries. The only thing Tillersen is adding is the social media account (which have been already suggested before during Obama time) and a compulsory security clearance for the citizens of the six countries (who the vast majority of them were already subjected to security clearances).
On paper, this sounds just an incremental tightening of Bush/Obama procedures. (God knows how tough they will be at implementation).
So again this is a publicity stunt to tell Trump base that we are trying to do something despite the court rulings.
On paper, this sounds just an incremental tightening of Bush/Obama procedures. (God knows how tough they will be at implementation).
So again this is a publicity stunt to tell Trump base that we are trying to do something despite the court rulings.
5
Most native Americans wouldnt pass the screening of their social media accounts. Americans post more vile, anti-everthing and everyone sentiment then any other nation/s.
5
We can start by not giving visas to anyone displaying religious garb.
7
If that includes Jews, it won't go over too well.
Think again.
Think again.
4
Please tell me you are being snarky and not genuine. Because if it's the later, that means priests, nuns, and anyone wearing a cross should be included in your mandate.
3
What is religious garb? Who defines it? Whether someone is religious or not, if they live in certain countries, they have to wear the same types of clothes as everyone else. How then, will anyone be determine if the person is an adherent to the religion?
2
This administration seems to do many things not because there is a real reason to solve an existing problem but just to demonstrate their willingness to do any thing to please their base. People calling for tighter visa vetting probably knows no one outside of this country and see very little need for anyone to travel across national boarders. Other than frustrating a lot of visitors and waste a lot of tax payer's money, this policy does not in anyway make the country safer because after 911, a rigorous vetting process is already in place. We must be grateful though for the fact that the base of current policy makers did not ask to fight the evil windmills. Although, we are not that much better off. In the meantime, the real threat of climate change and environmental degradation are ignored. The emperor is really naked!
3
So these new rules don't apply to citizens of countries under the visa waiver program? Looks as if they don't need a Visa as they have an American Express.
6
then the best we can hope for is theat they DON'T BOTHER and stop coming here. When the little coin banks are empty and they wonder why, maybe it will dawn on them that their policies are wrong. The recent London killer was BORN in England --he didn't arrive on a visa.
Foreigners, stay away. Do the patriotic thing. Deny the USA your tourist dollars, your brains, your education and your investments. Maybe then we will see the influence peddlers for who they are.
Foreigners, stay away. Do the patriotic thing. Deny the USA your tourist dollars, your brains, your education and your investments. Maybe then we will see the influence peddlers for who they are.
5
This is made even more ridiculous coming on the heels of the attack in London committed by an English citizen.
10
An "English citizen?" Some might argue that his "radicalization" and the attack provide strong evidence that it would have been far better had he not been...
I notice that a lot of readers are afraid that better security checks would be bad for business.
Anyone who feels that, way should read this story about Rudi Dekkers who didn't kick Mohammed Atta and Marwan Al-Shehhi out of his flight school in Florida, even though he knew they were bad people, because his business was making money off of them:
http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/911-Flight-School-Owner-The-last-10-Years-H...
Anyone who feels that, way should read this story about Rudi Dekkers who didn't kick Mohammed Atta and Marwan Al-Shehhi out of his flight school in Florida, even though he knew they were bad people, because his business was making money off of them:
http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/911-Flight-School-Owner-The-last-10-Years-H...
12
What does that have to do with Government Security?
I think he is saying that the potent loss of tourism revenue should not be determinative of security issues. That seems quite sensible, don't you agree?
Typo correction. "Potential" not "potent"...
The man who won't release his own tax returns, and protests questions about his (possibly corrupt) links to a foreign power, now wants to vet everyone else. What did the American people see in him that they chose to give him the most powerful office in the world on a platter?
We seem to be observing the downfall of a once-great country, in slow motion.
We seem to be observing the downfall of a once-great country, in slow motion.
14
Stupidity, ignorance and greed elected Donald Trump. The majority are going to suffer because of this.
2
For us here, the destruction of a once-great-country is in overdrive as Trump is intent on bringing us back to the days of the Monarchy.
3
He's bringing Canada "back to the days of the Monarchy?" That must be what you mean because it's certainly not happening here, except of course in the eyes of those who dwell in loony land...
1
While this article discusses some State Department directives, what of them are actually "new and meaningful". Since Trump has absolutely no clue how things currently work, and he's inclined toward "political theatre" as a substitute for being competent, why is this simply not this failing administration pretty much issuing directives to do what has been largely in place in the first place?
2
The only failure is the lockstep progressives failing to understand the desires of the mainstream Americans. How else would you explain the lunatic Pelosi retaining minority leadership. Or Chuckie Schumer replacing the vile Harry Reid.
Whenever Dems try to criticize the POTUS, I just remember who they voted for last November. It puts everything into perspective.
Whenever Dems try to criticize the POTUS, I just remember who they voted for last November. It puts everything into perspective.
3
Extreme vetting is supported by the ugly bunch of mean old angry and scared white men who now hold the reigns of power in Washington. They shouldn't be in positions of power to make any policy, expecially a retrograde policy that harkens back to the worst days of the cold war. They, the mean old dudes, are responsible for the international problems they've created in the world post WWII for both Americans and foreigners. That the extreme vetting applies to all African countries and other predominantly brown and darker peopled countries is flat out racist, it's not about making America great againn but making America anglo-white again.
The irony is the mean old wrinkly dudes extreme vetting will backfire on tens of millions of Americans as these same mean old guys have made America the world's greatest jailer and criminalizer of its own citizens. "American criminals" will be banned from other countries they could once freely travel to, as the foreigners do a tit-for-tat on visas for Americans.
Have a petty DWI or marijuana posession on your record? The authoritarians now share all American conviction and arrest records with Canada. You will be banned from traveling to go on that Canadian fishing trip, or to visit relatives or do business in Canada because you are going to be labled an "American criminal" even if your DWI was 40 years ago.
Keeping us safe or keeping the U.S. white? Violent armed Americans remain the biggest threat to other Americans. Sad losers R U.S. !
The irony is the mean old wrinkly dudes extreme vetting will backfire on tens of millions of Americans as these same mean old guys have made America the world's greatest jailer and criminalizer of its own citizens. "American criminals" will be banned from other countries they could once freely travel to, as the foreigners do a tit-for-tat on visas for Americans.
Have a petty DWI or marijuana posession on your record? The authoritarians now share all American conviction and arrest records with Canada. You will be banned from traveling to go on that Canadian fishing trip, or to visit relatives or do business in Canada because you are going to be labled an "American criminal" even if your DWI was 40 years ago.
Keeping us safe or keeping the U.S. white? Violent armed Americans remain the biggest threat to other Americans. Sad losers R U.S. !
3
Banned by the Canadians? That's Canada's choice. If Canada doesn't want you there for some reason, argue with Canada...
"Mr. Chen, of the American Immigration Lawyers Association, questioned how a single interviewer who conducts 120 interviews per day — at about five minutes per interview — could improve security for the visa process."
They can't and some of this is absolute nonsense. Just because someone visits Yemen, Iran, etc., doesn't mean that they are interested in terrorism. They may have families there. I can understand wanting all this information if a person is applying for refugee status but not if they are coming here for a short visit. And in the long run these new requirements will not stop terrorism anywhere in the United States. Terrorists don't wear signs saying "Hi, I'm here to kill and maim Americans". And secondly, some terrorists, Timothy McVey for one, are home grown. If we want to end terrorism, which we can't because there will always be someone somewhere who is perfectly willing to commit these acts here and elsewhere, we would do better to treat people decently no matter what we think of them or their religious beliefs or skin color or anything else.
They can't and some of this is absolute nonsense. Just because someone visits Yemen, Iran, etc., doesn't mean that they are interested in terrorism. They may have families there. I can understand wanting all this information if a person is applying for refugee status but not if they are coming here for a short visit. And in the long run these new requirements will not stop terrorism anywhere in the United States. Terrorists don't wear signs saying "Hi, I'm here to kill and maim Americans". And secondly, some terrorists, Timothy McVey for one, are home grown. If we want to end terrorism, which we can't because there will always be someone somewhere who is perfectly willing to commit these acts here and elsewhere, we would do better to treat people decently no matter what we think of them or their religious beliefs or skin color or anything else.
5
"The new rules generally do not apply to citizens of 38 countries — including most of Europe and longstanding allies like Australia, New Zealand, Japan and South Korea'
This new rule does not apply to Europeans but that is where the problem seems to be. Conversion to Islam among native Europeans is on the rise. Majority of the converts may not pass a threat but a minority, however, embraces radical interpretations of Islam and can pose a security risk. The involvement of Muslim converts in recent terrorist attacks has raised concern in Europe about these "converts to terrorism." In Europe, there is very little hard data on conversion to Islam due to the difficulty of gathering proper statistics. Richard Reid, a British convert to Islam who attempted to blow up an airliner with explosives hidden in his shoes and boarded a flight to the United States under the visa waiver program. For Islamist terrorists, the European convert is a prized recruit, at ease in society, cognizant of informal rules and opportunities, and able to move freely without arousing suspicion.
This new rule does not apply to Europeans but that is where the problem seems to be. Conversion to Islam among native Europeans is on the rise. Majority of the converts may not pass a threat but a minority, however, embraces radical interpretations of Islam and can pose a security risk. The involvement of Muslim converts in recent terrorist attacks has raised concern in Europe about these "converts to terrorism." In Europe, there is very little hard data on conversion to Islam due to the difficulty of gathering proper statistics. Richard Reid, a British convert to Islam who attempted to blow up an airliner with explosives hidden in his shoes and boarded a flight to the United States under the visa waiver program. For Islamist terrorists, the European convert is a prized recruit, at ease in society, cognizant of informal rules and opportunities, and able to move freely without arousing suspicion.
5
As well as refugees/immigrants from the middle east, I would profile any European muslim convert of mixed race, middle east descent. You'll find your problems right there.
3
Mixed race are not the only converts, even pure whites get converted into Islam, they do not even change their names to Islamic sounding names. Moreover Visa, Immigration or security people cannot ask what religion you practice. ISIS can use all those loopholes when they recruit.
2
The order is only incidentally about security. it's principal intention, particularly in Latin America, is to restrict the arrival of people, even if they have legitimate business, part of the Trump administration's drive to rewhitefy the United States..
1) For the visa officer working in taboo areas (the Muslim world and Latin America) the new rule may be summed up as "There is no visa problem that cannot be solved by denial of the visa."
2) The most interesting group of losers will be young, unmarried women from Latin America who will find getting a non-immigrant visa impossible. The new instructions will force visa officers to refuse all young women, unless they have powerful connections, on the presumption they are headed to El Norte to make a life by finding a husband.
3) The measure reduces illegal immigration but by also denying visas to many people who deserve them, it will reduce America's revenues from tourism and serve as a barrier to our efforts to open Latin markets for our goods. The singling out of Latins also feeds the anti-American narrative of Maduro and like minded kleptocrats in the region.
Surely, the instructions are unclassified (should be). Suggest the Times find out whether they A) establish targets for refusals and B) penalties for American consular officers who issue too many visas
1) For the visa officer working in taboo areas (the Muslim world and Latin America) the new rule may be summed up as "There is no visa problem that cannot be solved by denial of the visa."
2) The most interesting group of losers will be young, unmarried women from Latin America who will find getting a non-immigrant visa impossible. The new instructions will force visa officers to refuse all young women, unless they have powerful connections, on the presumption they are headed to El Norte to make a life by finding a husband.
3) The measure reduces illegal immigration but by also denying visas to many people who deserve them, it will reduce America's revenues from tourism and serve as a barrier to our efforts to open Latin markets for our goods. The singling out of Latins also feeds the anti-American narrative of Maduro and like minded kleptocrats in the region.
Surely, the instructions are unclassified (should be). Suggest the Times find out whether they A) establish targets for refusals and B) penalties for American consular officers who issue too many visas
The idea of Latin American women packing their bags to come to the US for the sole purpose of getting g a husband? Really, does that happen?
You lost me at "people who deserve visas". Nope, not a valid concept.
You lost me at "people who deserve visas". Nope, not a valid concept.
2
Sorry for the confusion.
No foreigner has a "right to a visa. But the Immigration and Nationality Act, in all its versions, provides criteria for the issuance of non-immigrant visas to deserving individuals. That is to say, they are going to the U.S. for legitimate purposes such as business, study or tourism (the latter includes short visits to family members). The principal rule is that the applicant demonstrate to the visa officer that his or her ties to their own country are sufficiently strong to assure that the
applicant will return from the U.S. before permission to stay in the U.S. expires. The new rules will make it harder for them to demonstrate their intention to return.
Example: A student, who would have passed muster before, gets turned down because he or she is not well connected enough to assure the student a good job at home after graduation in the U.S.
---------------------------
I know of no such cases but this sexist concern has been around a long time. It is likely the new rules will magnify it in the mind of the visa officer, whose job appears to be on the line if he or she is not tough enough.
No foreigner has a "right to a visa. But the Immigration and Nationality Act, in all its versions, provides criteria for the issuance of non-immigrant visas to deserving individuals. That is to say, they are going to the U.S. for legitimate purposes such as business, study or tourism (the latter includes short visits to family members). The principal rule is that the applicant demonstrate to the visa officer that his or her ties to their own country are sufficiently strong to assure that the
applicant will return from the U.S. before permission to stay in the U.S. expires. The new rules will make it harder for them to demonstrate their intention to return.
Example: A student, who would have passed muster before, gets turned down because he or she is not well connected enough to assure the student a good job at home after graduation in the U.S.
---------------------------
I know of no such cases but this sexist concern has been around a long time. It is likely the new rules will magnify it in the mind of the visa officer, whose job appears to be on the line if he or she is not tough enough.
1
Just when I think it's not possible to go any lower, new records are set. The self-proclaimed creator of new jobs will soon have an unemployment rate that will blast the record set by our depressions. The tourism industry not to mention all the ancillary industries dependent on tourism will crumble.
Another thing: the new budget severely cuts State department personnel. The luckless fools left will see their workload quintupled. I'd like to see T-Rex interview 120 people a day and be able to take responsibility for assuring that the ones that pass are ok. The only standard possible in 5 minutes is if you like the looks of the person (I.e., white -- must be ok; nonwhite-- can't take a chance; nervous? Must have something to hide.). Racism, profiling anyone? You know if a terrorist gets in, then it's not the president's fault because the buck doesn't stop there.
Another thing: the new budget severely cuts State department personnel. The luckless fools left will see their workload quintupled. I'd like to see T-Rex interview 120 people a day and be able to take responsibility for assuring that the ones that pass are ok. The only standard possible in 5 minutes is if you like the looks of the person (I.e., white -- must be ok; nonwhite-- can't take a chance; nervous? Must have something to hide.). Racism, profiling anyone? You know if a terrorist gets in, then it's not the president's fault because the buck doesn't stop there.
3
what are they always talking about a ban for, there is no ban on anything, just more checking, what is wrong with that, more propaganda to give Trump a hard time, the whiners are worried about it taking to long, this is why nothing gets done
4
As a proud whiner, increased checking is another word for ban. For Trump it's simple. The first thing you do is look at the name and if has an Arab ring to it, put the application in the reject file. If they pass the name test, you go to the skin test. If the skin is on the dark side, put application in the reject file. And lastly, if they pass the name test and the skin test, go to the bank test and ask. do they have enough capital to contribute to the Trump agenda? If they pass these tests then we can say it is okay to visit us.
2
While this commenter goes on to make points I agree with, this is an absurd statement:
"There is no evidence that foreign travelers are terrorists or will commit crimes if they are admitted."
Of course there's evidence. All of the 9/11 hijackers were admitted to the US and committed crimes once they got here. The San Bernardino couple is another example.
That said, I think future terrorism is just as likely to be perpetrated by people who are already in the country (as we saw this week in London, for example, or in Orlando last year or at the Boston Marathon before that). I doubt that terrorism can be prevented by tighter vetting. Nevertheless, even slowing it down a bit will be useful.
"There is no evidence that foreign travelers are terrorists or will commit crimes if they are admitted."
Of course there's evidence. All of the 9/11 hijackers were admitted to the US and committed crimes once they got here. The San Bernardino couple is another example.
That said, I think future terrorism is just as likely to be perpetrated by people who are already in the country (as we saw this week in London, for example, or in Orlando last year or at the Boston Marathon before that). I doubt that terrorism can be prevented by tighter vetting. Nevertheless, even slowing it down a bit will be useful.
6
terrorism can be prevented if we get out of the Mid East and leave those people to deal with their own problems. remember, tillerson's visit to rian started with the statement, "we are not here to take your oil". MUST have been true in the past though, and may still be true even though he denies it. OIL has been the biggie for a hundred years all around the world, even Vietnam where there is an ooil patch just off the coast.
We are responsible for our own predicament, and not the innocent victim we often protray ourselves to be. JUST READ some history.
We are responsible for our own predicament, and not the innocent victim we often protray ourselves to be. JUST READ some history.
1
Well he can't be expected to bring in more Russians,..without removing just as many Muslims and Latinos.
3
Actually, it may not be a bad idea, what with the London attack and all. Instead of soft-pedaling the issue, a tougher stand against the prospective evil-doers can go a long way to frustrate future efforts of self-radicalized, determined, callow, but cold-blooded criminals. As it is, terrorism is morphing into a global profession, that can bring home the bacon for fellows with fortitude, pursuing nefarious activities.
Paris, Brussels, and now London attacks should collectively serve as a canary in the coal mine, for law-abiding citizens of the world. When '''apparently normal persons'' are ill-trained to become baddies, and when they are armed, they may act like dogs that caught the bus. By the same token, it becomes ill-conceived actions, when an exasperated white goes around shooting any brown-skinned person, as happened in Kansas, in Feb. 2017.
If a country wants to put a kibosh on terrorism, one opines it ought to start from the root, for instance at the border, to begin with. And now, home grown terrorism is a whole different kettle of fish.
Paris, Brussels, and now London attacks should collectively serve as a canary in the coal mine, for law-abiding citizens of the world. When '''apparently normal persons'' are ill-trained to become baddies, and when they are armed, they may act like dogs that caught the bus. By the same token, it becomes ill-conceived actions, when an exasperated white goes around shooting any brown-skinned person, as happened in Kansas, in Feb. 2017.
If a country wants to put a kibosh on terrorism, one opines it ought to start from the root, for instance at the border, to begin with. And now, home grown terrorism is a whole different kettle of fish.
2
"Actually, it may not be a bad idea, what with the London attack and all. "
The recent London terrorist was born in Britain and was a British citizen. A person like him would still be able to get into the US under the visa-waiver program (which the US has with the UK.) So what is to prevent a citizen from one of the visa-waiver countries to get into the US, hire an SUV, and then mow down people like the London terrorist did?
The recent London terrorist was born in Britain and was a British citizen. A person like him would still be able to get into the US under the visa-waiver program (which the US has with the UK.) So what is to prevent a citizen from one of the visa-waiver countries to get into the US, hire an SUV, and then mow down people like the London terrorist did?
1
I'm returning to NY for my 40th HS reunion this summer with my Scottish-born wife. Her ESTA visa came through without a hitch, but I must admit at this rate there is still a pang of doubt as to whether she'll be allowed in.
I would not put it past those zealous cranks at Border Control to say "well, there have been recent terrorist attacks in the UK, so we are going to withdraw your ESTA. Sorry. Go home to Scaaatland." They seem to be a law unto themselves, and they don't like foreigners, even if they are attractive, middle-aged professional women with charming accents.
I would not put it past those zealous cranks at Border Control to say "well, there have been recent terrorist attacks in the UK, so we are going to withdraw your ESTA. Sorry. Go home to Scaaatland." They seem to be a law unto themselves, and they don't like foreigners, even if they are attractive, middle-aged professional women with charming accents.
3
Let's be honest. She's white. No problem.
7
I've travelled all over the world - and America's Border Control agents at JFK are by far the Worst I've eve encountered. They're guaranteed to put a sullen, hostile and rude start to any visit to America, only too well aware that Everybody passing by is terrified to call them out for being jumped up little Jobsworths blatantly abusing their power.
Instead, they're rude to Everybody going through - even though, for example, Irish passengers are already cleared by the US in Dublin, where you wouldn't be allowed to fly to America if you weren't a valid traveller - because who is going to say to any of the Border Patrol brats at JFK: "Excuse me! But don't you talk to me like that! Who do you think you are? Apologise, now. Get me your supervisor."
Nobody. Nobody says anything to the hostile JFK Border Patrol people - who represent the first image and impression that visitors to America have - because they're afraid of being refused entry, or hauled off somewhere under arrest 'for threatening language' etc, leading to a world of problems.
So it is that every visit to America, via New York at least, always, always starts with running the gauntlet of the worst Border Patrol staff I've ever experienced,who make China's grim, abrupt police seem positively charming by comparison.
I hope your better half makes it through okay, possibly with even less than usual of the bullying rudeness that JFK arrivals otherwise invariably get, to the shame of the airport.
Instead, they're rude to Everybody going through - even though, for example, Irish passengers are already cleared by the US in Dublin, where you wouldn't be allowed to fly to America if you weren't a valid traveller - because who is going to say to any of the Border Patrol brats at JFK: "Excuse me! But don't you talk to me like that! Who do you think you are? Apologise, now. Get me your supervisor."
Nobody. Nobody says anything to the hostile JFK Border Patrol people - who represent the first image and impression that visitors to America have - because they're afraid of being refused entry, or hauled off somewhere under arrest 'for threatening language' etc, leading to a world of problems.
So it is that every visit to America, via New York at least, always, always starts with running the gauntlet of the worst Border Patrol staff I've ever experienced,who make China's grim, abrupt police seem positively charming by comparison.
I hope your better half makes it through okay, possibly with even less than usual of the bullying rudeness that JFK arrivals otherwise invariably get, to the shame of the airport.
3
I can assure you it is not just JFK.
Is this another solution in search of a problem? Journalists now need to do the research for the State Department and tell us where any problems, from violent crime or overstayed visas, really come from.
BEA, you are in much greater danger from your fellow citizens than from foreign visitors. Like Donald Trump, Jr.'s recent tweet to the mayor of London. There are vastly more deaths from hunting accidents than terrorists. So, Don-boy and his buddies are more likely to kill you than some random terrorist.
BEA, you are in much greater danger from your fellow citizens than from foreign visitors. Like Donald Trump, Jr.'s recent tweet to the mayor of London. There are vastly more deaths from hunting accidents than terrorists. So, Don-boy and his buddies are more likely to kill you than some random terrorist.
7
Spot on Rob.
The great majority of crimes committed in the US are by its own citizens, so what exactly is all of this going to do for America?
Unless we have a police division that handles precog crime, like in a PK Dick novel, this vetting will simply be more like the precursory butt-sniffing we get in the airport.
The great majority of crimes committed in the US are by its own citizens, so what exactly is all of this going to do for America?
Unless we have a police division that handles precog crime, like in a PK Dick novel, this vetting will simply be more like the precursory butt-sniffing we get in the airport.
2
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/20/us/flaws-in-fingerprint-records-allowe...
"...nearly 900 individuals were granted citizenship because neither the agency nor the FBI databases contained all of the fingerprint records of people who had previously been ordered to be deported...Investigators found that in more than 200 cases they examined, none of the individuals disclosed that they had another identity or that they had final deportation orders on their naturalization application..."
This was in 2016 - how did that "vetting" work out so far?
"...nearly 900 individuals were granted citizenship because neither the agency nor the FBI databases contained all of the fingerprint records of people who had previously been ordered to be deported...Investigators found that in more than 200 cases they examined, none of the individuals disclosed that they had another identity or that they had final deportation orders on their naturalization application..."
This was in 2016 - how did that "vetting" work out so far?
9
The "Trump effect" has already begun. German SPIEGEL is now reporting schools in Toronto, Canada are now prohibiting school class trips to the U.S.A., out of concern for their students who may come from one of the countries listed on his "Muslim Ban".
Is this making America great again?
Is this making America great again?
12
Rex Tillerson is prime example of what you get when old Billionaire Boys Club gets together to divide the spoils of the election, then you get a person given a job that he is not prepared or even qualified to do as Secretary of State.
11
The executive order may have been unnecessary, as several commenters have pointed out, since US immigration officials apparently have started vetting EVERYONE more. While this apparently inconveniences many harmless visitors and immigrants (as other commenters have pointed out), at least they are suffering for the greater good.
2
In response to a poster below who berated the Senate Dems for not filibustering this bill, it was passed under Congressional Review Act and thus can't be filibustered. Not only that, debate on the floor is limited to 10 hours and no amendments can be proposed.
4
I'm glad liberal judges have pushed Trump into deploying the deep state apparatus for a righteous purpose. It's has been a long time. The Dulles brothers are playing Dominoes with Ronald Reagan this morning and smiling down on a safer America.
1
How do you know only Librul Judges are against the POTUS Actions?
Do they also disagree with his Love for Putin too,..because they're Librul?
Do they also disagree with his Love for Putin too,..because they're Librul?
2
Another "deep state" believer.
The knee-jerk raction is fully operational.
The knee-jerk raction is fully operational.
1
Sanders
Honeymoon in Soviet Union/Check
Full support of Clinton/Check
CP-USA
Full support of Clinton/Check
Wonder who visited Cuba during the travel ban? I do.
Honeymoon in Soviet Union/Check
Full support of Clinton/Check
CP-USA
Full support of Clinton/Check
Wonder who visited Cuba during the travel ban? I do.
Let's not forget when the ban was first introduced: the same weekend Bannon was put on the NSC. It was partly a distraction from that ominous piece of news. And it worked.
10
The majority of terrorist acts since Trump was elected have been committed by white racists, Christian fundamentalists and those bent on persecuting anyone who is not white or male. Net immigration from Mexico is less than zero, while we benefit greatly from workers coming from abroad. This will come at a cost: American business and tourism will suffer, both within our borders and internationally. All in yet another attempt to create a crisis where none exists.
17
Just be glad (I am) they weren't Russian or they'd probably be a Presidential Advisor by now or beneficiaries of his first pardon.
2
Too bad we didn't have tougher screening of presidential applicants.
33
Clearly, based on historical data, this "Extreme Vetting" is unwarranted. Americans have a far greater risk of dying from an auto accident, drowning, lightning strike or even shark attack than from a terrorist attack. According to the Cato Institute, a total of 3,024 Americans have died (which includes the 2,983 people killed in the 9/11 attack) since 1975. Meanwhile, over 33,000 Americans die every year from gun violence.
This is another effort by Trump and Republicans to create a "Bunker Mentality" in America. According to Webster's Dictionary, a Bunker Mentality is "a state of mind especially among members of a group that is characterized by chauvinistic defensiveness and self-righteous intolerance of criticism." The ultimate goal of Trump and the Republicans is to establish themselves through (lies, innuendo and propaganda) as the only Party that can protect Americans so they can cement their power and establish a "false" democracy and autocratic state like Russia.
This is another effort by Trump and Republicans to create a "Bunker Mentality" in America. According to Webster's Dictionary, a Bunker Mentality is "a state of mind especially among members of a group that is characterized by chauvinistic defensiveness and self-righteous intolerance of criticism." The ultimate goal of Trump and the Republicans is to establish themselves through (lies, innuendo and propaganda) as the only Party that can protect Americans so they can cement their power and establish a "false" democracy and autocratic state like Russia.
13
The U.S. Government spends billions of dollars screening visa applicants wishing to travel to the United States, on the theory that one or another of them might do us harm. There is no evidence that foreign travelers are terrorists or will commit crimes if they are admitted.
In the meantime, approximately 30,000 people a year are killed in the U.S. by citizens wielding handguns, while hundreds of thousands more are injured or permanently maimed. Where is the outcry and the anger? Who is proposing policies and programs to stop this slaughter? Foreigners coming to the U.S. can't possibly do as much damage as we're already doing to ourselves.
In the meantime, approximately 30,000 people a year are killed in the U.S. by citizens wielding handguns, while hundreds of thousands more are injured or permanently maimed. Where is the outcry and the anger? Who is proposing policies and programs to stop this slaughter? Foreigners coming to the U.S. can't possibly do as much damage as we're already doing to ourselves.
81
There is ample evidence that some foreign travelers are terrorists and will commit crimes if they are admitted.
Can't put all the evidence in 1500 words- it would take 15,000 words. Here are two examples you should recall:
3,000 people died on 9/11/2001 when monsters with student visas flew hijacked jetliners into the World Trade Center towers, into the Pentagon, and a few brave souls overcame the vile hijackers and flew the plane into the ground in Pennsylvania.
Two brothers were brought by their parents to Boston. The brothers grew up with the best the USA had to offer: free education, public support, college, etc. The vile mother hated the USA and returned to her cultural home. The older brother went for a months-long visit to his cultural home. He became radicalized, a foreign embassy reported this fact to the USA; he was vetted and found to be innocent of radical views. Next chapter: the Boston Marathon, with the radicalized brothers killing and maiming on that Spring Day.
Half of the 30,000+ people dying from gunshots are suicides - they would have found another way if not for their guns: jump from bridges, jump in front of a train, car, bus, suicide by cop, etc. The majority of other deaths by gunshots comprise criminals / gang members / and accidents. And don't forget San Bernardino in 2015 - 14 dead 22 injured, or Orlando 2016 - 49 dead 53 injured.
The two issues you relate are different problems, different causes, different solutions.
Can't put all the evidence in 1500 words- it would take 15,000 words. Here are two examples you should recall:
3,000 people died on 9/11/2001 when monsters with student visas flew hijacked jetliners into the World Trade Center towers, into the Pentagon, and a few brave souls overcame the vile hijackers and flew the plane into the ground in Pennsylvania.
Two brothers were brought by their parents to Boston. The brothers grew up with the best the USA had to offer: free education, public support, college, etc. The vile mother hated the USA and returned to her cultural home. The older brother went for a months-long visit to his cultural home. He became radicalized, a foreign embassy reported this fact to the USA; he was vetted and found to be innocent of radical views. Next chapter: the Boston Marathon, with the radicalized brothers killing and maiming on that Spring Day.
Half of the 30,000+ people dying from gunshots are suicides - they would have found another way if not for their guns: jump from bridges, jump in front of a train, car, bus, suicide by cop, etc. The majority of other deaths by gunshots comprise criminals / gang members / and accidents. And don't forget San Bernardino in 2015 - 14 dead 22 injured, or Orlando 2016 - 49 dead 53 injured.
The two issues you relate are different problems, different causes, different solutions.
4
Perhaps...just speculating here...that the vetting that currently occurs it what keeps out some of those who might come here but for the visa process.
As to those who are currently here, perhaps more vigorous enforcement of existing laws and longer sentences for those convicted might help.
Regardless, there is no linkage between these two items.
As to those who are currently here, perhaps more vigorous enforcement of existing laws and longer sentences for those convicted might help.
Regardless, there is no linkage between these two items.
1
A friend from Mexico who was born in Germany says she and her family no longer will visit the US with Trump in the WH...They have many friends here and are well off and come to photograph the national parks...stay for a month or so ....just an example how his presidency has affected tourism by people I know
4
Most of the real tourists come from visa waiver countries.
Real tourists come to sightsee and shop and spend money.
Real tourists do not come to overstay their visa and stay on and work illegally and soak up government benefits.
Real tourists come mostly from visa waiver countries such as Canada, European countries (other than a few like Russia), Australia, Japan and Taiwan.
Most real tourists do not come from countries in Africa, Latin America or the Middle East or India or other countries in Asia (other than a few like Japan or Taiwan).
Half of all illegal immigrants are visa overstays.
And nearly all of them come from Africa, Latin America, the Middle East or India or other countries in Asia (other than a few like Japan and Taiwan).
Indeed, half of visa overstays are from Mexico, Central America and other countries in Latin America -- that's on top of the half of all legal immigrants who cross the southern border illegally,
Real tourists come to sightsee and shop and spend money.
Real tourists do not come to overstay their visa and stay on and work illegally and soak up government benefits.
Real tourists come mostly from visa waiver countries such as Canada, European countries (other than a few like Russia), Australia, Japan and Taiwan.
Most real tourists do not come from countries in Africa, Latin America or the Middle East or India or other countries in Asia (other than a few like Japan or Taiwan).
Half of all illegal immigrants are visa overstays.
And nearly all of them come from Africa, Latin America, the Middle East or India or other countries in Asia (other than a few like Japan and Taiwan).
Indeed, half of visa overstays are from Mexico, Central America and other countries in Latin America -- that's on top of the half of all legal immigrants who cross the southern border illegally,
2
My guess is that a lot, if not most, of the tourist dollars are spent by people who come here under the visa waiver program. So, we need a better breakdown of what tourists spend what money in order to analyze these new measures.
The biggest problem in the Department of State is that the top person Rex Tillerson, a Putin's best friend is a super CEO of a big company , Mobile Exxon but with zero experience in diplomacy and government. Moreover, now we know that he was reluctant to take this job. He was not a Trump's friend or even acquainted person. How he got the job is a big mystery. Then he fired the top career officers in the department is also a mystery. Trump cut 37% budget for the department and he is very happy for the cut. Under the leadership of Mr.Tillerson, the department of state is weakened which is very dangerous in the present unstable world situation.
7
Tillerson is a disoriented shell of his former business self, now lost in a powerless position at the State Department and reduced to taking his cues from Trump, via tweets.
12
This shows how little the Trump Administration and the general public know about visa screening. Granting a visa has long been considered a national security decision, I can cite congressional testimony from a year go saying that. Researching social media use by the millions people who apply for visas each year would be prohibitively expensive and experts say would yield few, if any, results. The end result will not make the United States more safe, but rather make the United States a less desirable destination to visit, study or do business. One more more step to relinquishing American global leadership which seems to be the goal of this Administration.
14
This Canadian won't be bothering you. I'll see my American friends when this nightmare is over. We can wave over the border if the wall isn't too high.
20
Well you know they're not going to ban those with direct connections to the Kremlin.
Or he wouldn't have a staff or himself,..for that matter.
Or he wouldn't have a staff or himself,..for that matter.
10
Hard to imagine the Supreme Court (even as presently constituted) wouldn't reverse the Hawaii/Maryland district court decisions (assuming they aren't reversed earlier at the Circuit Court level).
On the other hand, if US immigration officials simply "vet" EVERYONE more thoroughly, regardless of where they come from, we can achieve stricter enforcement of our immigration laws without spending the time and money to appeal Trump's district-court setbacks. The outcome of Trump's legal tussle won't matter much anyway. A terrorist these days is just as likely to be in the country already (as we saw this week in London, for example, or last year in Orlando).
Tighter enforcement of our immigration laws will have the greatest effect on the southern border. I strongly doubt that that will lead to many unemployed Americans taking the jobs now performed by illegal immigrants, but we need to find out one way or another by enforcing our borders and requiring immigrants to get here legally. My very strong hunch is that the ultimate result will be a beefed-up "guest worker" program that appeals to Mexican and Central American job-seekers who now see no alternative but to sneak across the border. They can come here, work, leave, and repeat that process in subsequent years if they like, without taking away jobs that Americans want.
On the other hand, if US immigration officials simply "vet" EVERYONE more thoroughly, regardless of where they come from, we can achieve stricter enforcement of our immigration laws without spending the time and money to appeal Trump's district-court setbacks. The outcome of Trump's legal tussle won't matter much anyway. A terrorist these days is just as likely to be in the country already (as we saw this week in London, for example, or last year in Orlando).
Tighter enforcement of our immigration laws will have the greatest effect on the southern border. I strongly doubt that that will lead to many unemployed Americans taking the jobs now performed by illegal immigrants, but we need to find out one way or another by enforcing our borders and requiring immigrants to get here legally. My very strong hunch is that the ultimate result will be a beefed-up "guest worker" program that appeals to Mexican and Central American job-seekers who now see no alternative but to sneak across the border. They can come here, work, leave, and repeat that process in subsequent years if they like, without taking away jobs that Americans want.
4
This is a typical Trump move: let's create a solution for a problem that we don't have, people will talk about it and forget the absolutely disastrous moment that we are experiencing as a Country and as a People.
Applied to this week I am talking about health care of course, next week it will be something else.
When Trump got elected I thought his presidency would be a terrible one. Now I realize I was overly optimistic.
This man has a rare combination of feeble mindedness and insanity.
I truly fear for my Country.
Applied to this week I am talking about health care of course, next week it will be something else.
When Trump got elected I thought his presidency would be a terrible one. Now I realize I was overly optimistic.
This man has a rare combination of feeble mindedness and insanity.
I truly fear for my Country.
7
And I'm afraid of my country.....How much worse can it get?
1
Let's face it, Osama Bin Laden may have lost his last battle with the US, but he is winning the war.
5
An illusion for the rubes. Standard scrutiny has always been enough, but the GOP fatuous show must go on.
Rex the wonder hypocrite.
Rex the wonder hypocrite.
3
Most acts of terror committed in the United States are home grown.
Trump is playing to the uninformed that make up most of his base. Fear sells.
Tillerson is already proving to be a disinterested and disastrous pick who will surely further impale the reputation of the United States but at this point, maybe that's not possible.
Trump is playing to the uninformed that make up most of his base. Fear sells.
Tillerson is already proving to be a disinterested and disastrous pick who will surely further impale the reputation of the United States but at this point, maybe that's not possible.
7
This will create millions of new jobs in the tourism space. Trillions. Yuge. D.T.
5
I'm sure this will only increase tourism to our country...
3
Even though white supremacists are considered by most security agencies to be a terrorist threat, I've noticed trump not only isn't vetting them - he's appointing them to his cabinet.
8
If this is what it appears to be, this use of subjective "discretion" will be the most sinister and effective (i.e., difficult to defeat) way to do what Trump has been saying he wants to do. Chilling.
1
Any changes for business travelers from China or Russia?
1
Well the Russian ones have the undying affection of the WHouse.
3
When was the last time a Russian or Chinese citizen mowed down innocent beings with a truck or car and then went on a stabbing spree? Are they also committing such atrocities in Europe? Do the Russian and Chinese governments routinely throw gays off buildings or burn people alive? I am not minimizing how those two particular governments have often shown themselves dictatorial and dangerous, but we are taking about something else. Wake up.
4
You really need to study up on how our russian neighbors treat gays. You might also want to be aware of all their assasinations of their own citizens in and out of their country.
3
Another flimsy diversion that will appeal to Trump's gullible base... Meanwhile, the tourist industry takes the hit while America's reputation is further sullied.
7
I don't see what the problem is. Afterall, black male citizens go through extreme vetting all the time in this country.
9
Nothing comes before the safety of AMERICAN CITIZENS
Another reason Trump won
No one has a "right" to come here and foreigners are NOT protected under our
US Constitution
Another reason Trump won
No one has a "right" to come here and foreigners are NOT protected under our
US Constitution
7
Actually, BEA, foreigners are protected under our Constitution. Sorry.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielfisher/2017/01/30/does-the-constituti...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielfisher/2017/01/30/does-the-constituti...
3
Well, desecrating the State Department and putting someone in charge of it who never wanted the job in the first place sure isn't assuring the safety of Americans. Insulting our allies isn't either.
6
Just a reminder:Trump didn't "win" -- and he didn't even get the majority of votes.
Another thing.
That "Muslim Ban" of his?? .... it's unconstitutional.
Another thing.
That "Muslim Ban" of his?? .... it's unconstitutional.
6
OK. Trump and Tillerson are going to get "tough". Well? How? And what is their idea of tough? Just what, exactly, are they going to do that is not being done already? This article, like Trump et al is long on rhetoric and short on details and that is likely because that is all there is to report as this is Trump's MO. Mostly smoke and mirrors form the PR department. The tough go about getting things done in a quiet, effective, yet relentless fashion. Nothing here once again.
19
What we see here is the infliction of Jingoism upon the nation.
Security agencies have done a great job of keeping the terrorists out and the majority of terrorism cases in the past few years are the actions of native-born citizens including petty criminals or deranged people with delusions of grandeur influenced by doctrinal twisting of their religion (jihad-thinking). This week's attack in London England seems to an example.
Legitimate applicants, especially tourists, will just shrug their shoulders if they have to wait too long for a visa: "Eh, why go to the US? Plenty of other places to visit!”
Security agencies have done a great job of keeping the terrorists out and the majority of terrorism cases in the past few years are the actions of native-born citizens including petty criminals or deranged people with delusions of grandeur influenced by doctrinal twisting of their religion (jihad-thinking). This week's attack in London England seems to an example.
Legitimate applicants, especially tourists, will just shrug their shoulders if they have to wait too long for a visa: "Eh, why go to the US? Plenty of other places to visit!”
32
It's only common sense to increase the scrutiny of people coming to the United States. Why is this a story? It's not going to eliminate attacks, but if it prevents one, it's worth it. It's a supreme privilege to come here.
1
"It's only common sense to increase the scrutiny of people coming to the United States."....Can you cite an example of why this is necessary? Eight years of the "lax" Obama vetting resulted in how many terrorist attacks?
1
Brilliant! No more tourists. No more tourist money. No more funding for the TSA -- I guess that's why Trump is also shutting down the State Deprtment. No one is coming, or going anywhere.
So now, we all can just stay home. Alone. And twiddle our thumbs.
Making America Great Again!
So now, we all can just stay home. Alone. And twiddle our thumbs.
Making America Great Again!
4
More evidence of the all white and mainly Southern GOP's irrational fear of brown people.
2
Make it so tough that they don't even want to come here. Case solved.
I work in high tech. I have coworkers from all over the world. We have job openings that have remained open for months, waiting for qualified candidates. The candidates coming out of the universities are from all over the world (we tend to know the promising Phd candidates long before they graduate, from their publication history). We get the best we can - we have to or we fail. High tech IS an international endeavor. The research WILL go on. With or without the United States.
4
Let's see some tougher vetting on cabinet and NSA picks.
5
This is just another travel ban in sheep's clothing. Give it a rest Trump. Your arrogance is beyond the pale.
2
I am sure it only applies to everyone but Trump workers who are working at his resorts and hotels in the US.
Trump family uses Chinese steel to build his hotel, hires non-US citizens at his properties.
Let us see what is he willing to pay to US Citizens to work at his properties.
He is not going to address those illegal Irish immigrants in US, because they are white.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/16/us/white-irish-undocumented-trnd/
Trump family uses Chinese steel to build his hotel, hires non-US citizens at his properties.
Let us see what is he willing to pay to US Citizens to work at his properties.
He is not going to address those illegal Irish immigrants in US, because they are white.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/16/us/white-irish-undocumented-trnd/
2
Donald Trump says torture works to extract the truth.
Donald Trump claims water boarding is not torture.
Manafort and Flynn got past Trump's "extreme vetting". Thus it is time to test Trump's beliefs on any Americans trying to become part of the Trump administration. Starting with Donald Trump, Mike Pence, Rex Tillerson, Steve Mnuchin and Jeff Sessions. Followed by Bannon, Priebus, Spicer, Conway, Jared and Ivanka.
Donald Trump claims water boarding is not torture.
Manafort and Flynn got past Trump's "extreme vetting". Thus it is time to test Trump's beliefs on any Americans trying to become part of the Trump administration. Starting with Donald Trump, Mike Pence, Rex Tillerson, Steve Mnuchin and Jeff Sessions. Followed by Bannon, Priebus, Spicer, Conway, Jared and Ivanka.
6
Proper vetting would have emptied Trump's clown bus before it ever hit the on ramp. The "system" failed it's due diligence to the people. We are now paying the price. Shame on us.
6
What a pity that he doesn't vet his own cabinet. The FBI has white supremacist groups on its terror watch list. Not this disgraceful birther, though.
4
As we're turning into an isolated police state, whose foreign policy is being orchestrated by a guy whose goal is the deconstruction of our way of life and executed by a Secretary of State with zero foreign policy experience, no staff to speak of and who doesn't speak to journalists, we're also making it extraordinarily difficult for Americans to travel and do business around the world. Those countries whose people will be hampered coming here will reciprocate and do unto us as we've done to them.
Let deconstruction begin...
Let deconstruction begin...
6
This is not only idiotic and needlessly aggressive, but it seems to be a backdoor attempt at the "Travel Ban". Make travel to the US difficult and intrusive and people will be less motivated to travel here.
Unfortunately, since Trump and Tillerson can't think their actions through logically, this will also make it harder for students, scientists, medical professionals, and business people to travel into the US. Soon, these talented individuals will simply skip the US altogether, and take their skills, their talents, and their money to nations that aren't lead by regressive ignoramuses.
Unfortunately, since Trump and Tillerson can't think their actions through logically, this will also make it harder for students, scientists, medical professionals, and business people to travel into the US. Soon, these talented individuals will simply skip the US altogether, and take their skills, their talents, and their money to nations that aren't lead by regressive ignoramuses.
11
Even the Canadians are being subjected to extreme vetting at the border. Their school groups are cancelling trips to avoid being humiliated by hostile questioning at the border. A church youth group on a spring break volunteer mission was turned back because they couldn't prove they were not job seekers. We won't need vetting for long. No one will want to come for any reason.
8
Proving that this ban was just for show - there was no need for an executive order. All they had to do was increase the scrutiny. But the "president" and his inexperienced advisors decided they had to grandstand and it blew up in their bigoted faces.
9
It’s thought that at least 40% of undocumented immigrants came here on temporary visas. Until we develop a system that ensures visa holders leave by the time their visas expire, we should investigate every visa applicant as stringently as we investigate those who are applying for legal residency.
15
Thank you Ann for being a voice of sanity.
1
Last week the Indian parents of a US citizen were sent back after a 48 hour journey to visit their child, because they had overstayed their visa by 2 days in 2014. They journeyed here in 2015 with no problem. Why they were issued the visa in the first place if there was a problem is a mystery. Our policy needs to be more coherent, something this Administration appears incapable of.
2
40% seems to be a little too high, given the popularity of "build the wall" crowd. Otherwise, building the wall is only going to stop only around half of illegal immigration.
Even if 40% was correct, the question to ask is what percentage of people on temporary visas end up overstaying their visa and become undocumented immigrants?
Even if 40% was correct, the question to ask is what percentage of people on temporary visas end up overstaying their visa and become undocumented immigrants?
2
Good. People wanting to come here should be a net positive and have something to offer, rather than being a drain on the economy.
5
"People wanting to come here should be a net positive and have something to offer,"....You mean like the many thousands of foreign students who will now be prevented from coming. You need a serious wake-up call.
1
Has it occured to you that there are already Americans draining the economy and that they're Washington D.C.?
3
I supported the pause on entry from the countries president Obama selected, our Courts thus far have declined to continue Mr Obama's special scrutiny, when the current president expands on it.
So now all countries have special attention, and this will be reciprocal.
Well, a world without borders or a world with.
I prefer with.
=
Say how did this all come about anyway, why did Mr Obama choose those countries, and why is it ok for Mr Obama but not for President Trump?
THAT answer is easy, "It's different when WE do it"
So now all countries have special attention, and this will be reciprocal.
Well, a world without borders or a world with.
I prefer with.
=
Say how did this all come about anyway, why did Mr Obama choose those countries, and why is it ok for Mr Obama but not for President Trump?
THAT answer is easy, "It's different when WE do it"
2
"I supported the pause on entry from the countries president Obama selected,"....Why? Can you answer the question? I can't think of a single good reason and so far I haven't heard a single good reason from anybody who supports the ban. Our greatest asset in fighting terrorism both domestic and foreign are the vast majority of Muslims of good will. We need to cultivate them instead of doing things that alienate them. The ban not only makes us look stupid, it very definitely makes us less safe.
1
If only the Trump Administration would screen its advisors and cabinet members as thoroughly as visa applicants. It should be obvious which of these two groups contains the higher percentage of criminals.
Anyone worried about being killed by a terrorist immigrant will be comforted to know that there's a much higher probability they will be killed by a family member with a gun.
Anyone worried about being killed by a terrorist immigrant will be comforted to know that there's a much higher probability they will be killed by a family member with a gun.
5
WHY? Why is there a need for tough screening? To make people put into an unrealistic fear about terrorism feel better? Because it was a campaign promise?
I don't care if it was a campaign promise, because like the idiotic wall idea, "extreme vetting" is just language being used to calm fears, where the reality has no basis. Illegal immigration is at an all time low, the wall will be a boondoggle, and WE ALREADY ADEQUATELY SCREEN PEOPLE WHO WANT TO COME HERE!
Sorry for yelling.
I don't care if it was a campaign promise, because like the idiotic wall idea, "extreme vetting" is just language being used to calm fears, where the reality has no basis. Illegal immigration is at an all time low, the wall will be a boondoggle, and WE ALREADY ADEQUATELY SCREEN PEOPLE WHO WANT TO COME HERE!
Sorry for yelling.
5
Tashfeen Malik was adequately screened?
3
An exception makes a rule? You prove my point. Millions of people vetted, one radicalized immigrant and suddenly you want to close the borders down.
2
Tashfeen is a well known example of how screening did not work. Her case should be used to tighten the process instead of just shrugging and saying it was a one-off. How cruel. I'm sure the families of the San Bernardino victims do not share your "hey whatever " attitude.
3
Hate to tell you, this isn't going to work. Dissatisfied Americas who can't get jobs, good health care or feel respected in our country are the ones we should be worried about. Let's focus our energies on being the envy of the world with great health care, good educations for all, and a positive welcoming environment. The current government is geared towards the wealthy and keeping them that way while taking away the opportunities for the middle class and poor.
The only true way to stop ingrown breed of terrorism is the above plus closing down all internet access, that's where they find their friends, just like gangs that lure in the disenchanted.
The only true way to stop ingrown breed of terrorism is the above plus closing down all internet access, that's where they find their friends, just like gangs that lure in the disenchanted.
4
I think this is overkill and will probably hurt us more than help us but even if some of these measures make sense, my first question is how do these new rules get funded? Trump has proposed gutting the State budget... and this expands the responsibilities of State. So it's bigger government, not funded - typical GOP cough-cough "fiscal responsibility."
3
Welcome to our new Police State. Why on Earth would anyone want to visit us?
This is what happens when you put an entitled toddler in the highest office of the United States. While it may look good to him and feel good, he will end up alone and bitter in the end and blame everyone but himself.
This is what happens when you put an entitled toddler in the highest office of the United States. While it may look good to him and feel good, he will end up alone and bitter in the end and blame everyone but himself.
5
Just the Muslim ban by another name. And now clearly racist with the inclusion of Africa while giving Europe a bye. So last month Africans did not pose a threat but this month they do? This is an invented problem looking for an invented solution, all used to satisfy the racist Republican voters. Shame on us.
5
I'm starting to wonder if "Fortress America" is not only going to keep non-Americans out, but also keep Americans in. Are we the new Soviet Union? Will we start questioning our own citizens' reasons for traveling, requiring that we all apply for visas in order to leave the country for any purpose, and questioning all citizens about their political and religious beliefs before we re-cross the borders into our own country?
Since the Trump administration and its eager enablers, the Republican party, have demonstrated that they're completely willing to ignore the Constitution, and since they clearly don't expect any repercussions for their unconstitutional endeavors, the argument that the Constitution is going to protect us from despotism seems to be weakening.
Who is really going to stop them from doing whatever they want to, in the name of so-called national security?
Since the Trump administration and its eager enablers, the Republican party, have demonstrated that they're completely willing to ignore the Constitution, and since they clearly don't expect any repercussions for their unconstitutional endeavors, the argument that the Constitution is going to protect us from despotism seems to be weakening.
Who is really going to stop them from doing whatever they want to, in the name of so-called national security?
3
What is with the future tense regarding questions at border crossings? American citizens have been subjected to intrusive questioning for years when driving back from Canada. Returning from Mexico may be a breeze for Texans but that is hardly the case at the northern border.
3
When I was a little kid in upstate NY, we went back and forth over the Canadian border freely. Later, in California, we went to Mexico once when we were kids, and simply walked across the border with our parents, then walked back after spending the day. In those days, it was Europe that had borders, and we felt sorry for people who had to have a passport to go anywhere. Now it's starting to feel like we're being penned into the US like cattle. Travel has become increasingly difficult for anyone, regardless of race or religion, and pure paranoia is driving much of the difficulty.
Surely it is past time to begin "extreme vetting" of hyper-nationalist, white supremacist Christian Fundamentalists.
What, but for scale, is the difference between that fundamentalism that informs the bombing of American icons, and the bombing a family planning clinic?
What, but for scale, is the difference between that fundamentalism that informs the bombing of American icons, and the bombing a family planning clinic?
4
As a businessman, Trump had to maximize one number (profit). As president, he must balance many competing concerns. A businessman can screw all else for profit's sake, and be a good (if heartless) businessman. A president who screws all else for security's sake isn't a good president.
2
And here we are with the most recent daily outrage! Beyond inanely stupid...the only plus here is the fervent hope that it significantly undercuts profits for Trump hotels throughout the country.
2
3 year ago my sister in law was denied a tourist visa to visit from Egypt. She is a middle aged, divorced, high school teacher in the public school system in Cairo. I'm a physician (ie generally a responsible citizen). Egypt is an ally. She was denied.
There system is already very tough. We are already safe from visitors on visas. This is a 'Trumped' up problem.
Sadly, the result is greater distrust of non-white and foreign seeming people.
Disturbingly real dangers are ignored
There system is already very tough. We are already safe from visitors on visas. This is a 'Trumped' up problem.
Sadly, the result is greater distrust of non-white and foreign seeming people.
Disturbingly real dangers are ignored
48
Granted, I'm a little weak mathematically, but I believe 3 years ago would land us right in the early years of the second Obama term, prior to Donald Trump announcing his candidacy. So this "Trumped" problem that you speak of seems to be awfully prescient in its manifestation.
If you actually take the time to read the immigration laws - which these days don't seem to be worth the paper, bits, and bytes they are created with - you will see it really doesn't matter how responsible or irresponsible you are. It would be all about your sister's background, attention to detail in completing the application, and whether she could satisfy the consular official that she posed no security or overstay risk.
If you actually take the time to read the immigration laws - which these days don't seem to be worth the paper, bits, and bytes they are created with - you will see it really doesn't matter how responsible or irresponsible you are. It would be all about your sister's background, attention to detail in completing the application, and whether she could satisfy the consular official that she posed no security or overstay risk.
4
The recent terrorist attack in the U.K. was performed by a U.K. born citizen. According to this article, people like him might receive a pass on visa vetting due to citizenship. Yet, we're again targeting countries from which we've had no terrorist attack (suggesting the vetting in place was already working). There seem to be some very big holes in our security protocols.
25
"There seem to be some very big holes in our security protocols."....More likely the holes are the heads of the administration.
2
If the vetting worked well, the female half of the couple who killed 14 people and wounded 22 people would not have been allowed into the USA. Those who lived and the families of those who were killed would disagree with you that the vetting in place was already working.
2
Since Tillerson is demonstrating daily his abject lack of qualifications for Secretary of State and inability/unwillingness to stand up to team Trump in their effort to destroy America's ability to lead internationally, he sees fit to focus on reducing the number of visitors in the name of security. Heaven help us!
Tougher screening for getting elected to White House is needed.
Banning top employees from coming to work in the State Department; banning people from health care; banning press from covering Secretary of State; banning EPA from doing its job; and making this an unfriendly country is a train wreck. Banning Bannon would be a better start, but Trump would then be stumped. Maybe a going away present of a big truck would do the trick.
Banning top employees from coming to work in the State Department; banning people from health care; banning press from covering Secretary of State; banning EPA from doing its job; and making this an unfriendly country is a train wreck. Banning Bannon would be a better start, but Trump would then be stumped. Maybe a going away present of a big truck would do the trick.
1
Why do you get to judge them?
Can one imagine if extreme vetting had been done on Trump, Bannon and Tillerson? It boggles the mind?
Thank goodness someone with a little common sense is at the helm, the Obama administration placed all of us in the kind of danger you now see manifesting itself in Europe.
Every jihadist that can rent a car or truck can now become a significant threat. These lunatic Federal judges playing politics with our internal security have an agenda that I don't share.
4
"Thank goodness someone with a little common sense is at the helm,"...... Tell us, during the 8 years of the Obama administration, how many Islamic terrorists have come here on a visa and attacked us?? What's the matter, can't find an answer? Now tell us in the same time period how many Americans were killed by lawn mowers. Home of the Brave?
4
WA
The table has been set under the Obama administration, we are now at the mercy of Fifth Columnists imbedded in our population. Hundreds of thousands of people following Islam were admitted under Obama's administration, I am concerned.
Talk all you want until something happens and then wonder why we did not do something.
The table has been set under the Obama administration, we are now at the mercy of Fifth Columnists imbedded in our population. Hundreds of thousands of people following Islam were admitted under Obama's administration, I am concerned.
Talk all you want until something happens and then wonder why we did not do something.
1
Well, he's started to make good on one of his promises ~ stop the massive flow of foreign-born terrorists into the US, since ... wait, what?
The worst crimes have been by US citizens?
Never mind ...
The worst crimes have been by US citizens?
Never mind ...
3
Allow me to point out the obvious.
With out a wall, vetting is meaningless. No one is vetting the people who sneak in illegally.
With out a wall, vetting is meaningless. No one is vetting the people who sneak in illegally.
4
A literal wall may not be the best method -- "electronic fences" may work better in many places. But that's just quibbling over methods. I agree completely that it's best to prevent illegal immigrants from entering.
Once an illegal immigrant has arrived here, it's difficult, expensive and time-consuming to get rid of that illegal immigrant -- much less difficult, and cheaper and quicker, to keep that illegal immigrant from ever crossing our border in the first place.
To those who insist that "illegal immigration is at an all-time low," this question: "How do you know that? Do illegal immigrants fill out some questionnaire when they arrive here, or what?" And for those who insist that "net" immigration is negative these days (meaning more people emigrate than immigrate), the same question and one more: "So what? Is net emigration a bad thing?"
Once an illegal immigrant has arrived here, it's difficult, expensive and time-consuming to get rid of that illegal immigrant -- much less difficult, and cheaper and quicker, to keep that illegal immigrant from ever crossing our border in the first place.
To those who insist that "illegal immigration is at an all-time low," this question: "How do you know that? Do illegal immigrants fill out some questionnaire when they arrive here, or what?" And for those who insist that "net" immigration is negative these days (meaning more people emigrate than immigrate), the same question and one more: "So what? Is net emigration a bad thing?"
3
This'll force Americans to travel to meet people who can't come here. Won't that lead to more American deaths? E.g. an Iraqi-American forced to go to Iraq to see family.
They can 't meet halfway or meet in Canada ?
Truth be told, getting a visa to the US has always been the most difficult of any western nation when it comes to foreign citizens from muslim/developing countries where America has weaker diplomatic ties. Processing takes longer, there are unexplained security checks and consular officials seem to have an unspoken license to be rude and potentially racist. So for anyone applying for a US embassy in these countries, not much will change.
This is the Trump administration's way of showing it's base that it's taking action and protecting borders. In reality, not much will change.
This is the Trump administration's way of showing it's base that it's taking action and protecting borders. In reality, not much will change.
4
When I finally gave this some thought, I wondered if the government had more "extreme" vetting in 2001, would the 9/11 terrorists had been able to enter the US at all? Maybe we need to face reality and become more cautious about who can enter the country and move so freely around.
Is there is much new here? The policy looks back 15 years (past addresses, employers, travel history). The old policy (at least for Georgian applicants) looked back five years. The question about ISIS is self-explanatory but can you see a would-be terrorist answering, "Yes."?
3
Between the attack on the tourism industry and that on all agricultural sectors employing 'illegal' workers, Trump is only going to ensure being able to confirm to his voters that he delivered on his promise to enforce "extreme vetting" at the cost of economic growth.
There's no way that economic growth won't stall with these misguided actions. Already there had been talk about how agricultural sectors were facing uncertain prospects of employing farm hands given the raids on the Hispanic communities.
And, to what end? THIS is why facts are important. Rather than exploiting individual incidents, they need to be level headed that crime in immigrants is much lower than that of rest of population.
And rather than tourists, or visitors from the 6 countries part of Muslim ban, terror incidents are more likely from converts or those that are natural born citizens but feel alienated for some reason. And, most of them have already been brought to the attention of law enforcement agencies who end up ignoring that threat. THOSE are the facts.
That's where resources need to be deployed. As opposed to new staffers evaluating 200 forms of documentation requested of ordinary tourists under the guise of "extreme vetting".
There's no way that economic growth won't stall with these misguided actions. Already there had been talk about how agricultural sectors were facing uncertain prospects of employing farm hands given the raids on the Hispanic communities.
And, to what end? THIS is why facts are important. Rather than exploiting individual incidents, they need to be level headed that crime in immigrants is much lower than that of rest of population.
And rather than tourists, or visitors from the 6 countries part of Muslim ban, terror incidents are more likely from converts or those that are natural born citizens but feel alienated for some reason. And, most of them have already been brought to the attention of law enforcement agencies who end up ignoring that threat. THOSE are the facts.
That's where resources need to be deployed. As opposed to new staffers evaluating 200 forms of documentation requested of ordinary tourists under the guise of "extreme vetting".
6
Should a possible collaborator with a foreign power be allowed to determine who enters our country?
3
Frankly, I think it is Trump and his family, the Trump admin and associates, including those he has appointed to any position, that need extreme vetting in light of what we are now learning.
6
I have no problem with being careful. But Trump is always playing a game with facts and using his new power to move the pieces. Fact is we have not had foreign terror here since Obama was elected. Those acts that we did have were committed by American born citizens, not immigrants.
Seems what we were already doing worked.
There is an old saying Trump needs to learn. "If it aint broke don't fix it"
Apply this to so many of his pledges to fix things that already work.
Seems what we were already doing worked.
There is an old saying Trump needs to learn. "If it aint broke don't fix it"
Apply this to so many of his pledges to fix things that already work.
35
You mean like when we had a president who didn't working with Russia in disrupting our electoral process? A president who didn't here white supremacists as advisors? A president who didn't have temper tantrums on Twitter? A president who won both the electoral college AND the popular vote - twice? A president who knew not just something but A LOT about constitutional law? A president who wasn't an ignorant birther? A president who doesn't brag about molesting women? A president who didn't settle out of court on several class action lawsuits filed against him for fraud and racketeering? A president who isn't as crazy as King George III? .... Yeh, well, at least to people who aren't Trump fans, President Obama actually WAS a lot less threatening.
2
You must have missed the Boston Bombers and the San Bernardino Islamic terrorist acts
3
You are not correct: we have had foreign terrorists here during the Obama years. The wife of the rifle-wielding (and would-be bombing) couple who killed 14 people and injured 22 more people in San Bernardino in 2014 came into our country on a visa after vetting.
And the Boston Bombers, the brothers Tsarnaev, who killed 3 people, wounded hundreds more including 16 who lost limbs in 2013, were immigrants who became naturalized American citizens. born in . Their vile mother returned to her native home in Kyrgyzstan. The older brother went back to his native land, and was reported to the US embassy as having become radicalized. He was "vetted" and given a clean bill.
Then there are the immigrants whose planned acts of terrorism were thwarted. Too many to list in 1500 characters; Google them if you choose.
But don't choose to forget them.
And the Boston Bombers, the brothers Tsarnaev, who killed 3 people, wounded hundreds more including 16 who lost limbs in 2013, were immigrants who became naturalized American citizens. born in . Their vile mother returned to her native home in Kyrgyzstan. The older brother went back to his native land, and was reported to the US embassy as having become radicalized. He was "vetted" and given a clean bill.
Then there are the immigrants whose planned acts of terrorism were thwarted. Too many to list in 1500 characters; Google them if you choose.
But don't choose to forget them.
3
Sure ..Trumpo should recommend the "extreme vetting" procedures he used for his cabinet appointees.
2
Sounds reasonable to me. Time for the State Department to get back to focusing on its primary purpose.
2
I have visited the US numerous times as a tourist, and I lived there legally 8 years as a student because I went to college and got my MBA. Loved every minute of it. Every time I applied for a visa, very tough screening processes were in place and many, many people were denied. I hope the government has done its homework and has estimated the impact this measure will have especially on tourism and higher education. As an example, my tuition fee was 5 times higher than that paid by my american fellow students. And regarding tourism, Disneyland or New York are always filled with international visitors during the summer.
4
thanks Donald.i saw mr.marriot from mariott hotels saying we will be getting more conventions and tourists.scared of going to the states with visa problems......from canada
1
Hopefully the 37% cut in the State Dept's budget helps this endeavor.
4
Trump talks of "job-killing regulations". Making it harder to travel for work surely counts as one.
3
As others have pointed out, Trump's proposed cuts to the State Department while demanding substantially more work from its consular service makes no sense, and neither are the added-on information requirements for visa applications justified by whatever threats we face from foreign visitors.
The State Department cuts likely are driven by Bannon's "deconstruction of the administrative state," i.e., removing America from the international community, while the new "extreme vetting" requirements are driven by cynical fear mongering so as to maintain public support of Trump's and the Republican regime.
I do wish the NYT and other responsible media outlets would include reminders to readers that the terrorist threats we face, primarily from lone wolf actors, come from individuals who either were born in the US, or who on average have resided in this country for 15 or so years. Our real security problems seem to me to derive far more from our gun crazed, religiously intolerant society.
The State Department cuts likely are driven by Bannon's "deconstruction of the administrative state," i.e., removing America from the international community, while the new "extreme vetting" requirements are driven by cynical fear mongering so as to maintain public support of Trump's and the Republican regime.
I do wish the NYT and other responsible media outlets would include reminders to readers that the terrorist threats we face, primarily from lone wolf actors, come from individuals who either were born in the US, or who on average have resided in this country for 15 or so years. Our real security problems seem to me to derive far more from our gun crazed, religiously intolerant society.
8
I assume the UK is now included in tougher screening, as is Belgium, and France.
2
If the aim is to keep Americans safe, why focus on what causes only a minite fraction of deaths? Preventing 100% of terror attacks would save fewer people than preventing 1% of car accidents.
3
How do you screen terrorist with European passports?
3
How do you screen terrorists with American passports?
2
Two years ago, after years of living in the US, I started travelling. Every time I returned to the states with my Resident Alien card, I faced increasing scrutiny at the border. I'm a middle aged white woman with a Canadian passport. Last year I finally applied for and got citizenship, which took almost a year and included handing over yeahs of tax returns and a copy of every page of every passport I'd had from 1976 on. I was in Miami airport the weekend of the travel ban and was glad to have that US passport, because I could have been hauled aside by Homeland Security. Last year, while boarding a plane, I noted that one of the Homeland Security agents was looking at his Facebook page, while the line slowly snaked toward the security checkpoint. I made a comment, was pulled aside for special scrutiny, searched 3 times, made to unpack my bag and sent to the wrong gate. Adding more security checks will not make us more secure, especially since the agents seem poorly trained and give not a wit about customer service. I recently passed through Rome's Airport, I was impressed with how efficient and well thought out the seccurity process was. Bins were big enough to fit all your items for screening, the screeners were polite and on your way out the door they asked you to rate their performance by pushing a button. We don't need more, but better screening and that can't be done when you cut the agency budget by 30%.
12
I bet you will refrain from further 'comment ' at US airports!!
2
Do not be shocked if companies leave the US. This so called "vetting" will do so much social and economic harm, I would not be surprised if it causes a recession or depression.
3
I am not so sure that will happen. Foreign nations place far more restrictions on corporations than the US does. Actions taken by US companies without consequence can be crimes overseas. Redomiciling should not be taken lightly.
3
As a former visa applicant from Brazil to the United States, I can state the current rules instituted over the past 8 years are (were) extremely lax. The United States has huge problem with illegal immigration and over half of illegal immigrants are visa holders who simply do not return to their home countries after their visa expires. Millions of people every year are taking advantage of our system by applying for a tourist visa and using it an immigrant visa. This abuse of our system has to stop. The tougher screening ordered by Trump is a good start.
17
“...over half of illegal immigrants are visa holders who simply do not return to their home countries after their visa expires.”
Please supply your source for this “statistic”... Sean Hannity, possibly? Breitbart?
Please supply your source for this “statistic”... Sean Hannity, possibly? Breitbart?
1
I know plenty of Mexican nationals who cannot get visas and do have homes they will return to....I guess you got in and now others????? Are you a citizen? WE? I was born here and I am appalled at how hard it is for certain people to get visas to visit...let alone how that affects our econony.
@The Voice of Reason: " over half of illegal immigrants are visa holders who simply do not return to their home countries after their visa expires."
Interesting statistic, you cite there: HALF. What's your source?
According to the INS, only 1.17 percent of visas issued in 2015 failed to exit the country.
https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/FY%2015%20DHS%20Ent...
According to Politifact:
In 2003, the last year for which there are statistics,
the INS released a report that said 33 percent of the illegal immigrant population in 2000 had entered the country legally. A 2004 report from the General Accounting Office, based on 2000 data, gave estimates on visa overstays ranging from 27 percent to 31 percent to 57 percent.
But no one has truly updated those estimates since then, mostly because there is no data available from which to draw new conclusions, the Migration Policy Institute’s Marc Rosenblum said.
http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2015/jul/29/marco-rubio/rub...
Interesting statistic, you cite there: HALF. What's your source?
According to the INS, only 1.17 percent of visas issued in 2015 failed to exit the country.
https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/FY%2015%20DHS%20Ent...
According to Politifact:
In 2003, the last year for which there are statistics,
the INS released a report that said 33 percent of the illegal immigrant population in 2000 had entered the country legally. A 2004 report from the General Accounting Office, based on 2000 data, gave estimates on visa overstays ranging from 27 percent to 31 percent to 57 percent.
But no one has truly updated those estimates since then, mostly because there is no data available from which to draw new conclusions, the Migration Policy Institute’s Marc Rosenblum said.
http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2015/jul/29/marco-rubio/rub...
1
I can't believe the number of xenophobic comments. How many of these comments are being written by people who have never even met someone from another country? What are the last words of our national Anthem?....Be afraid; very afraid.
6
Why couldn't everything be done through "diplomatic cable"? why did DT have to sign executive orders?
Also, for people from the MidEast, getting a tourist/student visa to the US, at least pre 2017, is SO MUCH EASIER than getting one to Germany or France. Just ask anyone from Lebanon or Jordan or Egypt. But, it looks like we are going in that direction now.
Also, for people from the MidEast, getting a tourist/student visa to the US, at least pre 2017, is SO MUCH EASIER than getting one to Germany or France. Just ask anyone from Lebanon or Jordan or Egypt. But, it looks like we are going in that direction now.
3
Many people from Latin America visiting other countries need US visas just to pass through Houston, Dallas, LAX or Miami airports and fly on. This visa delay will certainly change fly routes and reduce business for US air carriers, American Airlines in particular.
2
More tough guy security melodrama. Does this include all your Russian
" associates " ??? How about the " guests " at the southern branch of your boys club, in Florida??? Losers. Seriously.
" associates " ??? How about the " guests " at the southern branch of your boys club, in Florida??? Losers. Seriously.
4
Now it will be easier to get a visa for Bhutan than the United States. Send those would be tourists looking to come here to Cuba. I just wonder if there will be a golfer exception to the extreme vetting process.
2
Sell your entertainment stocks now such as Disney and Carnival Cruise Lines. Raising the bar for visas will have a negative impact on their earning .
1
Trump and his policies are becoming a Terrestrial Nightmare.
Wouldn't it be more logical to start with extreme vetting of the Cabinet?
Secretary Tillerson seems to be haplessly out of his depth and honest enough to admit it, at least. The rest of the rogues' gallery is mired on a swamp of recusal, active conflict of interest or collusion with foreign enemies. A stateless person sitting in the waiting area of an American consulate abroad has good cause to shake their head and reconsider the whole thing.
Secretary Tillerson seems to be haplessly out of his depth and honest enough to admit it, at least. The rest of the rogues' gallery is mired on a swamp of recusal, active conflict of interest or collusion with foreign enemies. A stateless person sitting in the waiting area of an American consulate abroad has good cause to shake their head and reconsider the whole thing.
2
Due to the recent attack in London, committed by a British-born citizen, a travel ban should be placed on ALL British-born people. They are OBVIOUSLY ALL terrorists! Trump admin, BAN THEM ALL NOW!
7
Is this a Muslim ban in sheep's clothing? Send your contributions to the ACLU because hopefully they will be watching for discriminatory actions.
This administration only gets worse each day. Wait till Wall Street reacts and the Dow plummets and then the GDP falls later in the year. Maybe Trump will listen if he isn't indicted first.
This administration only gets worse each day. Wait till Wall Street reacts and the Dow plummets and then the GDP falls later in the year. Maybe Trump will listen if he isn't indicted first.
7
Can't wait to see what happens at the United Nations General Assembly next September. Has anyone told DT that the UN is in New York?
2
Reality check seems more people who comment on visa,s care very little on security of america . Its futile to have free for all an allow criminals into our beautfull country at expense of few trouble makers . Histroy proven in past events like pearal harbor some one wasnt doing there job. Same is true other events like bombing of twin towers garages in court documents those people had plans for airplanes. Problem with people they have zero vision an only see what they in front of them .I propose government take serous an screen those who suppose to defend us make sure we have people in charge who willing to stop this free for all an get criminals ot of or country
Have you even bothered to notice that most of the terrorist attacks in this country were perpetrated by Ameircans???
4
And Trump`s proposed budget cuts how much from the State Department? A backlog is an understatement.
3
I think the tougher screening should have started with the Trump Cabinet members, starting with Rex Tillerson. When I read him commenting that he didn't even want the job, but was planning to retire, I think retirement with him was the better option. T
Tillerson is in as much over head in this job, as Trump is in his in the oval office....clueless.
Tillerson is in as much over head in this job, as Trump is in his in the oval office....clueless.
7
Several of the people who worked for Trump and his campaign, including Mike Flynn, who actually was appointed national security advisor, have ties to Putin and other Russian officials. Were they vetted at all or deliberately chosen because of their Russian ties? Perhaps we will know the answer if the FBI investigation is allowed to proceed. But how absurd is it that Secretary of State Tillerson, who also has Russian ties, is demanding people wanting visas be vetted more. Talk about hypocrisy.
10
Living as I do in Europe, I can tell you that I know many people here who were planning a leisure trip to the USA but who are so put off by all this hostility and aggravation that they will forgo the pleasure and spend their time and money elsewhere. That is a shame for the US travel and hospitality industries, for the travelers themselves and for the American people. What in the world are we becoming? What message are we sending to the rest of the world?
9
It's interesting to me that many of our allies around the world are "extreme vetting" President Trump.
2
How about mandating passing a security clearance to serve in the White House and Cabinet.
5
Isn't that already the case?
1
The the very fact, that Trump, and his minions, feel that they have the right, to unilaterally impose new visa requirements on our trading partners, is just another of the warning signs, that this demagogue is taking us closer and closer towards authoritarianism.
6
What will happen if other countries require visas for American travelers? Although some already require them, many do not. Turnabout is fair play, they will say.
In addition to hurting our international reputation, this extreme vetting will hurt our economy. Tourists will go elsewhere.
In addition to hurting our international reputation, this extreme vetting will hurt our economy. Tourists will go elsewhere.
6
I’m sure the State Department and Administration understand there will be a backlash against American citizens by those countries affected by these new visa application vetting rules, Which is all 177 of them.
Not sure what, if any, is their game plan other than trying to get back at those Judges that ruled against the Muslim ban.
Not sure what, if any, is their game plan other than trying to get back at those Judges that ruled against the Muslim ban.
4
By cutting the upper echelons of the State Department, 45 has put the Secretary of State in the position of having to rely heavily on White House-vetted Republican political operatives. Texxonosaurus Rex knew what he was getting into. Shame on him.
2
It has escaped me why they didn't simply chose this avenue to re-consider visa policies and skip this "executive order ban" altogether. Clearlty the best way to control entry to the country.
3
I would like to institute a ban on all Trumps entering the country. It's for our own safety.
12
This seems like a solution in search of a problem. I haven't noticed any crime waves being caused by people visiting from foreign countries.
5
What's so bad about exercising a little caution? No one has an absolute right to enter the USA except for US citizens and legitimate green card holders. Would any of the many NYT whiners here let anyone into their UWS brownstone without knowing who they were? I don't think so. EU countries like Italy give out passports like candy so now even an EU traveler may be suspect. BTW I think the strong dollar is keeping foreign tourists from visiting the US and terrorism in the UK and EU is keeping Americans from traveling there.
6
This order making it more difficult for tourists and business travelers to enter the U.S. makes perfect sense. International travel to the U.S. is already steeply declining (the "Trump Slump"), so Trump is doubling down to ensure additional harm to our economy. When has he ever backed away from any of his stupid actions?
8
I'm glad the visa's for "fiancees" is being tightened because I have seen this first-hand, where foreigners exploit naive men and women via the Internet in order to gain access to the USA. It's a dangerous weak spot. Fiancees are not all personally known by the people they are supposedly "in love" with.
6
Boycott America-NOW!
No more tourist (or other optional) travel to the US as longs as this person is in the White House. Thinking people from visa waiver countries welcome to join.
No more tourist (or other optional) travel to the US as longs as this person is in the White House. Thinking people from visa waiver countries welcome to join.
2
Such moves make excellent headlines for Mr.Trump's base without actually solving anything wit h respect to terrorism. It is easy to blame outsiders from terror prone countries when the source may be closer to home. With the exception of perhaps the horrific 9/11 attacks most of the terrorists have been home grown both in Europe as in the recent London attack and in our country. I may add, since friendly European allies are exempt, they harbour many grown terrorists who can easily be counted upon to engage in such acts. These moves ratchet up the xenophobia already at heightened levels since the Trump election campaign. We have seen reports in the NYT of murderous attacks on individuals who were perceived as "outsiders" because of their skin tone who turned out to be lawful residents and for that matter were non Muslims. There is no such thing as an "Arab and Muslim" physical type. They like the rest of us come in all colors and shapes. The radicalisation taking place in America's Muslim communities needs to be addressed on a higher priority.
1
As a foreigner, I can tell you that there's already a big chill over visiting the US. I hear it all the time. This action won't help.
3
The most recent terrorist act was committed by a British citizen. So how is this ban going to prevent terrorism if most of these acts are committed by people from, "safe" countries?
2
When I was a newly-minted vice-consul, two minutes was a reasonable time for a non-immigrant visa interview.
Now Trump wants to cut the Dept's budget by 29% while adding all this additional, in some cases very time-consuming, processing.
How's that going to work?
Now Trump wants to cut the Dept's budget by 29% while adding all this additional, in some cases very time-consuming, processing.
How's that going to work?
6
The point is that they don't want it, or much of anything else, to work.
1
This is immigration "reform" through the back door. If we can keep Muslims from visiting the country, it will be even harder for them to immigrate here.
1
Extreme vetting. Thank you. This was on the ballot. Now build the wall.
4
Yup, we'll catch them by surprise when they just hand over all their burner phone numbers, disposable email addresses, and jihadi social media handles.
The devil is in the details here. While inquiring about online activities may well seem or even be reasonable, the real issue is with the criteria that might be used to evaluate whatever might be turned up by subsequent a digital search. That's where a backdoor Muslim ban might be implemented.
It should be pointed out that radicalization via Internet is a signature of Western-born and Western-resident terrorists. It's ludicrous to suppose that ISIS or Al-Qaeda hunts local recruits online. (Oops, I just had to confirm the spelling of Al-Qaeda by entering it in Google. Oops, posting to the NYTimes is social media.) Thus, it is all the more likely that this kind of scrutiny can only used to effectuate a Muslim ban of the curious, the intellectual, and the spammed who are already sufficiently global in their loyalties and inclinations to have a significant online presence.
The devil is in the details here. While inquiring about online activities may well seem or even be reasonable, the real issue is with the criteria that might be used to evaluate whatever might be turned up by subsequent a digital search. That's where a backdoor Muslim ban might be implemented.
It should be pointed out that radicalization via Internet is a signature of Western-born and Western-resident terrorists. It's ludicrous to suppose that ISIS or Al-Qaeda hunts local recruits online. (Oops, I just had to confirm the spelling of Al-Qaeda by entering it in Google. Oops, posting to the NYTimes is social media.) Thus, it is all the more likely that this kind of scrutiny can only used to effectuate a Muslim ban of the curious, the intellectual, and the spammed who are already sufficiently global in their loyalties and inclinations to have a significant online presence.
3
This reminds me of the days when job applications/interviews and want ads were 'coded' to keep certain groups out. Like, asking a woman who is going to watch her kids, asking year of birth or asking a minority applicant how he/she will get to work (i.e do you own a car). Just a poorly veiled attempt to keep certain people from entering this country (not naming any groups, but I bet Christians and white Europeans wont have a problem).
Muslim ban 3.0
Muslim ban 3.0
7
We get the message Mr. Trump. You don't want tourists, students, business people, shoppers, etc. Your border cities are certainly going to feel the loss of cross border shoppers spending their money on gas, groceries, restaurants, etc. My friends and I are no longrr visiting the U.S. You won't see snowbirds if you keep it up and the annual trek to Disney for March break will dwindle to a trickle. How's that going to work for the economies in Florida and Arizona, two of the biggest destinations of your northern neighbour in the winter? Come to Canada everyone! Your American dollar will go further, we are welcoming, polite, and we don't carry guns!
10
How about tougher screening for Team Trump?
Thanks for draining the swamp and turning it into a snake pit!
Thanks for draining the swamp and turning it into a snake pit!
5
Quite honestly, I think the US needs to focus on tougher screening for our candidates for President and Congress. Some of the comments and actions by our current administration scare me more that the lone terrorist who might make it to our soil. Two recent examples - President Trump's Time interview and Ron Envry, who said " If you get impregnated by force, it’s because the Lord was just using your rapist to get to you. And if the fetus lacks a brainstem or has deadly chromosomal disorders, that’s just the Lord’s way of letting you know how much you’re really loved."
6
Sorry but no one can claim they were unaware of Trump 's views before the election. He was very clear on his views of illegal immigration and foreign refugees. Plus he generated his own negative press. That was the screening but people voted for him anyway. What else was needed ?
2
Tax returns, conflicts of interests, lawsuits, and campaign donors.
1
The inexperience of Mr. Tillerson is showing, not only because he is seemingly oblivious of the enormity of the task he has delegated to State Department personnel, but because he is unable to present those realities to his boss "the president." While immigration may indeed be a political issue, it is also an operational fact of life in the day-to-day of foreign embassies having limits and parameters which do not always, and more recently seem to never, fit with the pseudo-ideological outbursts on Twitter.
3
This new "extreme vetting for visas" order has Bannon and Miller's fingerprints all over it. Tillerson is merely the messenger - a role that he apparently is going to play for Trump. If Trump and his White supremacist stooges want to make America a pariah state, a place where no one wants to do business, go to school, or even visit, then this new program is an excellent way to push that agenda. Just remember that Trump's base - ignorant and uneducated, poor, parochial, and provincial are not going to pick up any of the slack as America loses billions of dollars in tourism, as well as commercial and technological business opportunities. Are there any Trumpoholics out there who can explain how any of this nonsense will "make America great?"
8
About time. For non US citizens entering this country is a privilege, not a right.
5
True that it is a privilege, but unreasonable over-reach will cost us business, tourism and international goodwill. I have Canadian acquaintances, Anglo-Saxon in name and heritage with high level business credentials, who have been subjected to unreasonable questioning at US borders, simply because they travel a lot on international business to places that have included Saudi Arabia and the Middle East. Not smart. International business will simply re-route their offices, high paying jobs, and work to Toronto and other friendlier places.
2
And who EVER said it was a right, Brainiac? Precisely no one.
2
Among those (academics, businessmen and the like) who frequently travel to the US, there have already been a lot of worrying signs, from the denial of visa to ALL 100 African guests of an African trade summit in California (which proceeded to take place without African businessmen and government officials...), to arbitrary, lengthy and arbitrary detentions at airports of (white, older, habitual US guests) travelers (a French historian, an Australian children book author...). A French (as in white, catholic aristocrat) friend of mine, used to traveling to the US for business, has been denied his ESTA, apparently because of business trips to Muslim countries.
This is not "just" affecting Muslims, Arabs, or whoever the Trump voters are afraid of. This is affecting everyone, INCLUDING people from closely allied countries included in the visa waiver program. It is disrupting tourism and business. People, from academics to businessmen, are revising their travel plans - who really wants to spend hours being insulted, mistreated and interrogated by a border "official" who doesn't want to understand that you can vacation in Turkey or have business to do in Saudi Arabia?
This is not "just" affecting Muslims, Arabs, or whoever the Trump voters are afraid of. This is affecting everyone, INCLUDING people from closely allied countries included in the visa waiver program. It is disrupting tourism and business. People, from academics to businessmen, are revising their travel plans - who really wants to spend hours being insulted, mistreated and interrogated by a border "official" who doesn't want to understand that you can vacation in Turkey or have business to do in Saudi Arabia?
13
"The new rules generally do not apply to citizens of 38 countries — including most of Europe and longstanding allies like Australia, New Zealand, Japan and South Korea — who can be speedily admitted into the United States under the visa waiver program."...... The most recent terrorist attack in London, as well as attacks in France, Belgium etc., were carried out by Islamic terrorists with European passports - no visa to enter the U.S. required. Of course we should have a careful visa vetting process, but it should be efficient; and the present ridiculous travel ban should be removed, but no one should imagine that this is some sort of great step forward in keeping the country safe.
1
Oh this will all work out just fine. It dovetails nicely with the removal of privacy in electronic communication, and Trumpcare. See, the vetting with get more extreme, and when people lose their ability to afford mammograms, prostate exams, and colonoscopies, they can just apply for a visa and go in for a full screening. Better and cheaper all round! Exactly as Trump promised!
16
Sorry, meant "the vetting will get more extreme". My sarcasm level overwhelmed spellcheck apparently.
1
Dumb. We will lose a lot of tourist dollars. And is we saw from Chelsea NY, Orlando, and San Bernadino, the lone wolves tend to be self radicalized green card holders or U.S. citizens. Let's be honest, If compared to traffic fatalities, drunk driving or bathtub falls, Islamic terrorism frightening as it is, has a minor impact on the population except for-- the fact that we go crazy over it and spend trillions on wars and a security-industrial complex. If wore a uniform or carried a badge I'd love these policies. But I don't, and like the TSA (when was the last time those geniuses caught a terrorist) it's overkill. By the way, nobody in Europe--where they have had a lot more terrorism in the past few years--has to take their shoes off at the airport. I don't even think they do it in Israel. So why do we? Because a decade ago that misfit Richard Reid got on a plane in London and tried to light his sneakers on fire. It failed but what succeeded was an absurd policy that is still in effect ten years later. God bless the USA.
43
That's not quite true about not having to take your shoes off when you fly in Europe; sometimes you do, sometimes you don't.
2
Oh, please: not another comparison with deaths by falling in the bathtub.
Bathtubs don't plot by meetings, cell phones, emails. Terrorists do.
Bathtubs don't hijack jetliners and fly them into buildings. Terrorists do.
I expect Barack Obama regrets comparing deaths by terror attacks to bathtub falls. Perhaps you will drop the analogy as well.
Bathtubs don't plot by meetings, cell phones, emails. Terrorists do.
Bathtubs don't hijack jetliners and fly them into buildings. Terrorists do.
I expect Barack Obama regrets comparing deaths by terror attacks to bathtub falls. Perhaps you will drop the analogy as well.
3
Actually traveling in the UK last year had to present my ticket and passport, take off my shoes and all my outer garments hat, coat, scarf as well as any carry-ons for x-ray as well as my person before going into the waiting area for the plane. So I disagree with you completely. The Brits were very careful. Everyone had to and I am a 60 year old woman. Rather be safe.
I don't mind the TSA as long as they are polite but they are known to be very rude and stupid even to me but especially if one is wearing a turban or head scarf. But for the safety of all passengers these items need to be checked however they can do that in private so not to offend anyone. I understand the religious aspect of this headgear and do not mean to offend but in this day and age people need to be a bit more tolerant from both sides.
In Israel we were brought to private rooms and checked by personnel and I was 16 years old at the time. But they want the journey to be safe.
Hand guns should never be permitted even in luggage on a plane.
But our country is full of self entitled people who don't want to obey laws even if they are meant to keep us safe.
I don't mind the TSA as long as they are polite but they are known to be very rude and stupid even to me but especially if one is wearing a turban or head scarf. But for the safety of all passengers these items need to be checked however they can do that in private so not to offend anyone. I understand the religious aspect of this headgear and do not mean to offend but in this day and age people need to be a bit more tolerant from both sides.
In Israel we were brought to private rooms and checked by personnel and I was 16 years old at the time. But they want the journey to be safe.
Hand guns should never be permitted even in luggage on a plane.
But our country is full of self entitled people who don't want to obey laws even if they are meant to keep us safe.
1
So let's see. A Briton who is exposed to fundamentalist social media without a foreign sounding name gets checked less rigorously than a Catholic nun who did charity work in Somalia. Makes sense to me. Not.
3
The fewer foreigners who visit the United States, the less problems America will have with immigration.
I hope the new vetting is truly extreme.
I hope the new vetting is truly extreme.
4
Guess that means we won't be seeing you anytime soon, Sven.
4
Sorry to hear you'll never be able to visit America Sven. Sounds like you'd love it here.
This administration seems determined to make America the country of "rich white guys." Requiring increased vetting procedures, pushing the healthcare replacement bill (which would kick thousands out of the insurance pool, leading to more uninsured and certainly more deaths), restricting public education, eliminating or greatly reducing funding for the NIH, NEA, FDA, EPA, PBS, and other arts and education organizations, all seem geared toward creating an insular, less well-educated society. We have become a laughingstock around the world; our allies don't know what will spill from 45's Twitter fingers next nor whether to believe or trust his words; and too much of Congress, both House and Senate, are wantonly ignoring the potential devastation to our country and its reputation. What has happened to that "shining city on a hill" of which we were so proud?
4
LOST JOBS Initial estimates of the impact of job cuts related to the Trump Muslim ban are 90,000. For someone who mouths the words, America First, putting tourism, a major industry in many areas, last is heading in the other direction. For now, the US may be the last place many tourists wish to visit.
4
If the visa approval process conducted at our Embassies abroad were any more stringent, no visas would be issues. Period.
Readers of the NYT may rest assured that the criteria for visa approval have worked and are working fine. The only individuals who have engaged in terror attacks in the US since 9/11 have been US citizens.
I can only conclude that the unclassified cable sent out under Mr. Tillerson's name was drafted at the White House for the express purpose of demonstrating to the rubes, yokels and meth addicts that support our "president" and his coarse, racist impulses that this failing administration is doing everything it can to keep out "bad hombres."
Readers of the NYT may rest assured that the criteria for visa approval have worked and are working fine. The only individuals who have engaged in terror attacks in the US since 9/11 have been US citizens.
I can only conclude that the unclassified cable sent out under Mr. Tillerson's name was drafted at the White House for the express purpose of demonstrating to the rubes, yokels and meth addicts that support our "president" and his coarse, racist impulses that this failing administration is doing everything it can to keep out "bad hombres."
4
Frank, I think you got something there. Time to start exporting the trash causing problems here.
1
After "enhanced vetting" comes what? " Enhanced interrogation", extreme rendition....?
2
Hopefully.
1
It is passing strange to me that an accomplished man like Tillerson would ever have accepted a job working for Donald Trump. An extraordinarily successful businessman and a lifetime supporter of the Boy Scouts who (according to Wikipedia) played a very significant role in convincing that organization to rescind its long-standing ban on openly gay youth as members, he surely would have been familiar with the Boy Scout oath which reads:
On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law; to help other people at all times; to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight.
In and of themselves, the last two words in that oath should have been a clear warning to Mr. Tillerson to avoid getting mixed-up with Donald Trump in the first place.
On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law; to help other people at all times; to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight.
In and of themselves, the last two words in that oath should have been a clear warning to Mr. Tillerson to avoid getting mixed-up with Donald Trump in the first place.
7
Immigration reform and rethinking eligibility for citizenship based on birth to foreign born parents who landed on US soil just to give birth to a US citizen is long over due. Tougher and strict screening of visa applicants sure could help in keeping America safe well into the future but efforts should be made also to understand the rapidly shifting goals and methods of the terrorists and identifying earlier on those promoting hate against the west like Awalaki, US citizen from Yemen and Anjem Choudhary, Pakistani origin British citizen who have a tremendous influence on potential lone wolf terrorists like the fort Hood shooter of Jordanian origin and Khalid Masood, British born and then converted from Christianity to Islam in the prison. Weapons of mass destruction (WMDs) has shifted from hijacking, bombing planes and trains to flying planes into buildings and since the truck that moved into a crowded street in Nice, France, the latest WMD is Hyndai SUV rented from Enterprise rent-a-car hiding a large knife used in the heart of London. It is also time to take moral high ground by not giving ammunition and a forum to the Awalakis and Choudharies to use social media and places of worship to inspire terrorism. Time to not impose western values on people who are too stubborn to accept them. Terrorism is world war III and it has to be fought on multiple fronts not just in the streets but also including not interfering and taking sides in regime changes but ending all wars.
6
Perhaps extreme vetting won’t have as great effect as feared, as my British friends had decided that they will be going to Disneyland Paris with the kids for their holiday rather than Disney World BEFORE the extreme vetting was put in place.
Although perhaps they will now need visas for that trip also. :)
Although perhaps they will now need visas for that trip also. :)
1
Good for them, the lines for rides in Orlando will only be 55 minutes instead of 60 now.
But seriously, Brits leave to get out of their miserable weather, so I doubt your claim. In fact many thousands of them own condos in Florida.
But seriously, Brits leave to get out of their miserable weather, so I doubt your claim. In fact many thousands of them own condos in Florida.
4
My coworker....here on a work visa for a couple of years tried to RENEW his wife's drivers license in NJ and they refused because she isn't working - she is a "stay at home Mom." I can't tell him how I really feel but I agree. You can't stay here "for free". You must be a tax-paying entity. They have three kids and own a nice house with a lot of land in Morris Plains NJ (one of the richest zip codes in the NE). I think she gets some assistance. The system is screwed....
6
My wife used t watch patients drive up in a new car for their Medicaid dental work. Tell me about it.
3
@ibeetb
She still has to qualify for a work visa and she may not be able to qualify and/or find a job that would make it worth her while to work. Decent childcare is expensive.
Many Americans find it better financially for one spouse to stay home and do the childcare.
She still has to qualify for a work visa and she may not be able to qualify and/or find a job that would make it worth her while to work. Decent childcare is expensive.
Many Americans find it better financially for one spouse to stay home and do the childcare.
1
Clearly the American people wish to make the US unwelcome to, not just immigrants, but any Visitor ! Which is most unfortunate. While every country in the world, & there are all of 192, has attractive Tourist destinations, the warmth & goodwill of ordinary American people is unique & priceless. And can only be Felt after Travelling in the US. US Embassies are invariably impersonal & even curt. Atleast for the next 4 years, tourists & entrepreneurs the world over must keep the US off their Business & Vacation lists.
2
Okay I get it: but did he clear this with Putin?
5
It's amazing after the terror attack in London that so many people are complaining about tightening our security. Would you rather wait until we have another large attack to agree that we need to do what we can to keep these monsters out?
And stop worrying so much about people that aren't citizens. We have so many Americans in jail that shouldn't be and the way we treat people with disabilities and Natives and Veterans is shameful.
Take your energy and focus on helping our citizens first and then we can worry about everyone else.
And stop worrying so much about people that aren't citizens. We have so many Americans in jail that shouldn't be and the way we treat people with disabilities and Natives and Veterans is shameful.
Take your energy and focus on helping our citizens first and then we can worry about everyone else.
7
Jon - The terrorist attack in London was carried out by a British born citizen. No visa required to enter the U.S.
1
What a relief. Let's open the floodgates to people requiring visas and let everyone in except for British citizens.
The point is terror groups only want to keep doing more and more harm and added screening can only help prevent future attacks.
The point is terror groups only want to keep doing more and more harm and added screening can only help prevent future attacks.
4
Yet, we as Americans feel we should be allowed to go anywhere and are offended by such obstacles as visas. We who want to explore the world and see and experience other cultures will now probably face similar restrictions in tit for tat. Already saw this in trips to South America,
30
Well, I can see you've never been to the Middle East.
4
This is a disaster. We have all kinds of talented people; grad students, tech geniuses, entrepreneurs, tourists, and rising political leaders from around the world being barred or discouraged from even trying to get a visa. It's not the criminals we are barring - they are either coming in illegally or not even trying. It's the very people we need, the Elon Musks, the Steve Jobs, and thousands of others whom we are turning away. This is not making America great. This is killing our future. I wish we could deport this Administration.
52
Perhaps the talented people can help those in their own countries.
And perhaps the talented people who were fired from their jobs but told they could get severance pay if they stayed on and trained their foreign-born replacements. This happens all over the USA, with tech companies being among the worst offenders. 60 Minutes tells the story:
YOU'RE FIRED! MARCH 19, 2017, 7:05 PM| 60 Minutes investigates how some businesses have fired American workers and replaced them with cheaper labor: temporary, foreign workers with H-1B visas. Bill Whitaker reports.
If you missed the excellent piece on 60 Minutes last Sunday evening, here's the link: http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/youre-fired/
And perhaps the talented people who were fired from their jobs but told they could get severance pay if they stayed on and trained their foreign-born replacements. This happens all over the USA, with tech companies being among the worst offenders. 60 Minutes tells the story:
YOU'RE FIRED! MARCH 19, 2017, 7:05 PM| 60 Minutes investigates how some businesses have fired American workers and replaced them with cheaper labor: temporary, foreign workers with H-1B visas. Bill Whitaker reports.
If you missed the excellent piece on 60 Minutes last Sunday evening, here's the link: http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/youre-fired/
4
Me too!
1
Steve Jobs was born in San Francisco. Fact checking?
Wake-up Call........... Here is a surprise for you, loyal New York Times readers... We live in a world where violent people are intent on doing us harm. Not surprisingly, many come from the Middle East. And of those who come from the middle east it's fair to say the majority are Muslim.
If being Muslim is a risk factor, then keep them O U T.....
I don't want them here.. Got it.?? Even with the complete, broad-sides attack the Establishment Media has leveled against Trump, he still is protecting me and mine. Thank you, President Trump.
If being Muslim is a risk factor, then keep them O U T.....
I don't want them here.. Got it.?? Even with the complete, broad-sides attack the Establishment Media has leveled against Trump, he still is protecting me and mine. Thank you, President Trump.
6
"We live in a world where violent people are intent on doing us harm. Not surprisingly, many come from the Middle East."....When I was in graduate school I had Iranian roommates for four years. At that time there were more than 20,000 Iranian foreign students attending college in the U.S. . Multiply that by all the other Muslim countries that send foreign students to the U.S. and look at how infrequently there has ever been a problem with foreign students - your comment shows a compete lack of knowledge and makes no sense.
1
There is orders of magnitude more violence by so called Christians in this country than by Muslims.
1
Hey Lake life, this may come as a surprise to you, but more than 30,000 people are killed each year by guns and the vast majority of the killers are Christian men, I'm much more afraid of the violent people in our midst than Muslim immigrants to our country. If anything, perhaps any Christians should be banned from entering our country and not Moslems.
1
This is clearly "putting America first" - right?
Who would want to come to this country now anyhow?
It's like a new United States put on some weird world map that's not even our country anymore. I don't recognize it, and I sure don't want anyone else to see how embarrassing this nation has become since the Trump takeover.
When in New York I hang my head when around tourists. Ashamed.
Who would want to come to this country now anyhow?
It's like a new United States put on some weird world map that's not even our country anymore. I don't recognize it, and I sure don't want anyone else to see how embarrassing this nation has become since the Trump takeover.
When in New York I hang my head when around tourists. Ashamed.
3
I don't know this is necessary of if it would keep out "bad guys." But, as far as I am concerned, this is the president's prerogative under our law. Maybe the Ds will seek friendly judges in Blue states to say it is discriminatory. If Gorsuch is confirmed, probably by ending the filibuster for Sup. Ct. justices, it is likely the Ds ability to delay Trump's agenda judicially will come to an end. Or not. In the end, we don't know what the 8 judges up there in Olympus think about Trump either. But, I don't see, if they just apply the law, as they all say they will do, how they can take into consideration campaign slogans and speeches to determine whether something is discriminatory, which is not so either on its face or in its effect. If so, when the next D is elected president, can they not read his/her mind too? That's the problem with these two partisan ideologies. Each side pushes the envelope as far as they can. Then the next side comes in, and tries to exploit it more against the groans of the first side. We are seeing this right now with the filibuster. Reid used the atomic option to get in judges Ds wanted and now McConnell will try it with Sup. Ct. judges, if there is a filibuster of Gorsuch. Personally, I don't think the filibuster should ever be used to block nominations, but, both parties like it or not, only so much as it is valuable to them at each moment. They really are reprehensible, which is why we got the choice of Trump or Clinton.
3
State Department publishes annual reports with visa applications processed by country. Saudi and all the wealthy Emirates have the lowest denial rates globally! ;)
2
Xenophobic, nationalistic...or just plain paranoid?
1
I'll take "All of the Above" for $200.00.
With "Confusing Activity for Achievement" as a bonus.
With "Confusing Activity for Achievement" as a bonus.
1
I heard that memo included two new criteria. 1. If youre intrerested in buying some Trump property, you get thru faster, and get a well done steak and fries dinner. 2. If not, if you can survive some waterboarding, and give up your entire family, clan and neighborhood, you're in!
2
"Extreme vetting," effective or not, with both its expected and unexpected costs and consequences, is a mantra whose known, unknown and unknowable dimensions, need viable delineations by people with the necessary abilities to create,test, learn,recreate, integrate and acknowledge:"What if I am wrong?" Who are they? Where are they?It is also a viable opportunity for loud-mouthing.It is not a binary entity."National security," a word, term, goal,belief, principle of faith, totem, multidimensional, ever-changing, dynamic concept, value, process, system, politician's and other stakeholder's mantra, is also not a binary entity as it continues to be transmitted and presented to us directly and indirectly.Its achievable levels and qualities are constant challenges in theory and in practice.Feeling safe is not necessarily being safe. And being safe doesn't guarantee feeling safe.Ask the traumatized! Profiling a flawed stranger, by another flawed human being, however bright, trained, and motivated, doing the best s/he can,with constant constraints of limited time, imperfect tools, effected by the realities of interacting uncertainties, unpredictabilities, lack of total control, garbed in making an effort, and its impermanence, is a policy for random failures. Not for prophetic success. Mantraed "extreme vetting," misleads us from implementing necessary broad comprehension, focusing on both safe HERE and dangerous THERE, inside and out, to myopic focusing beyond our borders.
Since most of our terror attacks have come from home-grown radicalized people, what's the press on this now? Is there a special letter in Visas that indicate they're held by a Muslim? More distracting garbage from an illegitimate and deeply disturbed man sitting in the president's chair.
4
Student visas are opening the back door to numerous trouble-making young dissidents. They foment discord and hatred of the United States in the very vulnerable college setting.
Many students currently on college campuses should be denied re-entry next semester. Too little is being done, or will be done to weed them out. Further, college officials, students and neighbors are unwilling to report the behavior of dissidents fearing reprisals.
Where student visas are concerned Trump can't be tough enough.
Many students currently on college campuses should be denied re-entry next semester. Too little is being done, or will be done to weed them out. Further, college officials, students and neighbors are unwilling to report the behavior of dissidents fearing reprisals.
Where student visas are concerned Trump can't be tough enough.
8
"Student visas are opening the back door to numerous trouble-making young dissidents. They foment discord and hatred of the United States in the very vulnerable college setting."....This is so completely stupid it makes me want to erp. From personal experience I can tell you (I had Iranian roommates for four years during graduate school), that student visas are one of the very best ways to promote good will and establish life time de facto ambassadors for the United States and our way of life. The comment is so appallingly ignorant it makes me want to scream.
5
Visa control involves more than measures against terrorism.
It also involves measures against illegal immigration in general.
Most visas are supposed to be for limited periods -- i.e. only temporary stay --
e.g.. visits for business or "pleasure" -- family visits or sight-seeing or shopping.
Note step number 3 of the visa process -- demonstrate likelihood to leave at end of period of legal stay --- i.e. likelihood not to overstay.
Note also that none of Latin America except Chile qualify for visa waiver.
Note also that, of all the large Latin American countries, Mexico has the highest rejection rate, and that some Central American countries also have high visa rejection rates.
There is good reason for this process and this phenomenon.
Half of all illegal immigrants are visa overstays,
and half of those -- i.e. one fourth of all illegal immigrants -- are Latin Americans -- that's in addition to the half of all illegal immigrants who cross the southern border illegally, virtually all of them Latin Americans, especially Mexicans and Central Americans.
It also involves measures against illegal immigration in general.
Most visas are supposed to be for limited periods -- i.e. only temporary stay --
e.g.. visits for business or "pleasure" -- family visits or sight-seeing or shopping.
Note step number 3 of the visa process -- demonstrate likelihood to leave at end of period of legal stay --- i.e. likelihood not to overstay.
Note also that none of Latin America except Chile qualify for visa waiver.
Note also that, of all the large Latin American countries, Mexico has the highest rejection rate, and that some Central American countries also have high visa rejection rates.
There is good reason for this process and this phenomenon.
Half of all illegal immigrants are visa overstays,
and half of those -- i.e. one fourth of all illegal immigrants -- are Latin Americans -- that's in addition to the half of all illegal immigrants who cross the southern border illegally, virtually all of them Latin Americans, especially Mexicans and Central Americans.
5
In light of Trump's proposed 1/3 budget cut for State, who's going to be doing this extreme vettinng?
Crickets chirping...
Crickets chirping...
10
"who's going to be doing this extreme vettinng?"
Government employees of which there are hundreds of thousands who do nothing all day long?
Foreheads slapping...
Government employees of which there are hundreds of thousands who do nothing all day long?
Foreheads slapping...
1
He's personally going to check every tweet of every Visa applicant during his weekends in Mar-a-Lago....
3
This mess is what you get when a loud overgrown narcissistic schoolyard bully cons his way into the White House.
11
It seems to me more people are killed by the lax gun regulations in the US than any incoming terrorist can possibly achieve. On the whole a terrorist act (Islam inspired or otherwise) is generally speaking a home grown product. Especially of late these acts were committed by severely disturbed individuals with a history of (petty) crime and drug abuse in combination with bleak perpectives socially speaking. Apparently they are very susceptible to manupilation through the internet. In the short term this is hard to fight. Money spent on firepower (e.g. increase of military budget) and hardware like solutions (walls and such) seems to me a waste and are hardly effective to combat the lone wolf strategy of the terror masterminds. Extreme vetting at the borders is like trying to hit a mosquito with a hammer while the mosquitos are already inside. In the long term money wasted on these ineffective measures is better to invested in the social infrastructure of communities. That is your best chance of detecting the potential lone wolves before they attack. I am not talking about a big brother scenario but a healthy community is a fine balance between supporting weak, in the broader sense of the term, individuals and privacy. One may wonder why France is such a breeding place of jihadis until one realizes that without the right background, the wrong name (i.e. Middle Eastern name) and skin colour it is nearly impossible to advance in French society. A ticking time bomb is created.
7
"It seems to me more people are killed by the lax gun regulations in the US than any incoming terrorist can possibly achieve."....Since 9/11 eight times more Americans have been killed by lawn mowers than Islamic Terrorists.
1
"It seems to me more people are killed by the lax gun regulations in the US "
No one is kill by "lax gun regulations". Someone is feeding you lies.
No one is kill by "lax gun regulations". Someone is feeding you lies.
3
@Harry Sihan
You're right. The lax gun laws are helping to kill off people here -- And it's about to get worse now that this "president" has made it possible for folks to buy guns without background checks.
That combined with lax "Stand Your Ground" laws for self-defense means anyone can be a target now.
You're right. The lax gun laws are helping to kill off people here -- And it's about to get worse now that this "president" has made it possible for folks to buy guns without background checks.
That combined with lax "Stand Your Ground" laws for self-defense means anyone can be a target now.
It's odd. As a hotelier, Trump must want the tourist industry to remain in some functioning capacity. Is his racism actually stronger than his greed?
44
Gee, if we'd only stopped Tim McVeigh's great grandparents and the like from emigrating Trump would've never had the chance to sell Amerika to the Russian oligarchs.
4
It is high time the visa requirements are strengthened. If foreigners are upset by this, they can exercise other options and go to Canada or Europe, or even China as it wants to be viewed as a world leader. Resources are finite in this country and it is unsustainable to take a come one, come all approach to visitors and those who want to move here permanently. Too many American citizens are out of work, in need of health care and other resources. Sorry but we can no longer accept the world's tired and poor.
What are the "cables" Tillerson has issued? Are these like telexes? I thought that mode of communication was outdated.
What are the "cables" Tillerson has issued? Are these like telexes? I thought that mode of communication was outdated.
9
Well, 9/11 wouldn't have happened if consulates had been at least half-awake. For those great paid sleeping jobs in exotic countries, State employees need to thank Secretary Albright from the Clinton administration. Such a nice lady.
She's long been gone, yet everyone's still been enjoying those cushy jobs, no small thanks to Uncle John appointed by please-always-love-me Obama.
Today, Tillerson is running the show, and surprise, surprrise, throwing one angry fit after the other in this half-sleeping house they call State. Marching orders for many and wake-up calls for the rest. Sounds just right. All the best.
She's long been gone, yet everyone's still been enjoying those cushy jobs, no small thanks to Uncle John appointed by please-always-love-me Obama.
Today, Tillerson is running the show, and surprise, surprrise, throwing one angry fit after the other in this half-sleeping house they call State. Marching orders for many and wake-up calls for the rest. Sounds just right. All the best.
10
The 9/11 Saudi killers were refused travel on Air France so they went to American Airlines and paid cash for the trip. Airline protocols were a problem. There were many disconnects, like the report not followed up about the Muslim who wanted to learn to fly a jet but not how to takeoff or land, and more. It wasn't a matter of visa approvals that were the problem. Nor did the racist killer of a black man in NYC have anything to do with visas. Oddly, both this killer (it is ok to say this, he admitted it) and our biggest leaking of spy matters were from men who were in Army Intelligence. I hope that is a branch of service undergoing some introspection.
2
We used to be a welcoming country. No more. Trump has turned us into a mean-spirited, hateful place. i am ashamed of this new "amerikkka". Please let this nightmare end.
5
I am sorry but there are aspects of every day life that kill many more people (and Americans) a year than terrorists or visa holders (i.e. cancer, cars, slipping on ice and lightning) ! What a xenophobic rouse!
4
Was nearly impossible to get visa for a Thai woman, such as my wife before this extreme vetting order. A waste of $160 or so. Interview is just formality before stamp "refused". No one at embassy would lose job if refused visas, so why take the chance? BBC has been running ads here for "visit USA" recently.... "as if...."
1
And under-staffed, over-worked embassy employees, under explicit/implicit pressure to get the "revoked" numbers up will do so. Trump will then campaign that the total revoked is actually 100x more, Obama left this big hole that he plugged, and he saved America from all these terrorists. He's so simple, he's so predictable, he's so disgusting.
2
With so many radicals in Western Europe, why should there be a general waiver for them to obtain a visa. The Westminster terrorist was a British citizen. The President should abolish these waivers immediately.
2
Long overdue. Entering this country should be considered a privilege and not something anyone with the notion and a pair of shank's mares and proximity to a border or airport can do.
9
Well said!!!
1
The first thing that came to mind is that these directives are turning the US into a virtual prison that keeps many others out and making it economically difficult for ordinary citizens to travel, engage meaningfully in the world, and bring those experiences to enrich our lives in the US.
Also, it seems that the administration is using this backdoor measure to address two issues in one fell swoop. The refusals to admit non-European people (from the Middle East, read: Muslims) and Latin Americans (undocumented immigrants). Chile is the only Latin American country with a visa free travel arrangement with the US.
In essence it's trying to simultaneously enact their immigration and antiterrorism strategies by choking off the means of legal entry. The administration commits such mindlessness at our country's economic and cultural peril; it also diminishes our already eroding standing in the world.
Also, it seems that the administration is using this backdoor measure to address two issues in one fell swoop. The refusals to admit non-European people (from the Middle East, read: Muslims) and Latin Americans (undocumented immigrants). Chile is the only Latin American country with a visa free travel arrangement with the US.
In essence it's trying to simultaneously enact their immigration and antiterrorism strategies by choking off the means of legal entry. The administration commits such mindlessness at our country's economic and cultural peril; it also diminishes our already eroding standing in the world.
1
This order has the cold, clammy fingerprints of the little Dead-Eyed Sicko Stephen Miller all over it.
4
Bye-bye tourist and business dollars. President Baby strikes again...
8
I guess we will just have to find alternative places to go on vacation. Sad, I like visiting the USA but I can't make my bookings months in advance while the US govt decides to investigate every aspect of my fairly boring life. Besides which, most of these terror incidents and gun-crazy shootings originate within the US. This is just ill-conceived and will damage tourism from all but the most hardy traveler.
49
I'm honestly flattered you were still considering us a potential vacation spot at this point.
1
Canada, Europe, Asia....there are plenty of options.
1
How does this expanded Consular work fit into the proposed 28% budget cut for the State Department? For someone who touts international business experience, President Trump seems terribly naive about the role of the United States in the world economy.
Perhaps this explains why he continually demeans the United States as a world power by equating the role of the Presidency with that of a Russian regional bully.
Perhaps this explains why he continually demeans the United States as a world power by equating the role of the Presidency with that of a Russian regional bully.
34
So the tourism industry will collapse... domino number one on the road to recession.
It should all start with tougher screening of candidates for president.
101
Like, if we could get a look at their most recent tax returns?
2
there was tough screening in terms of both length of primary process and the total # of candidates. This was the result.
2
The screening has begun, e.g., President Trump i.e. how he got elected. The Country screened out the political establishment.
BHO did much for advancing screening intensification, i.e., his inability for 8 years to grasp the threat to America -- the world.
BHO did much for advancing screening intensification, i.e., his inability for 8 years to grasp the threat to America -- the world.
1
It's such a shame Trump didn't understand anything at all about government or the problems and issues he based his campaign on. Now we have solutions looking for a problem and every indication whatever problem there is has not been comprehended by the new president.
How novel it is to be scrutinized for a visa entry to the US, in fact when we visited Russia, China and Brazil over the last 4 years they seemed to be as strict. Don't we all stand in the threshold of our doorway to protect our homes after we open that door if someone has rung the bell?
21
You say that like the current system doesn't work even though all evidence shows that it does. Don't be scared. The people working to protect us have been doing there job and doing it well.
1
It's probably time for the travel and tourism industry, having seen something, to say something.
17
Just another nail in the coffin on the road to destruction of the United States and all that it used to stand for by the xenophobic Trumpster Administration. Do we all stand idly by and let this happen along with all of the other dysfunction that is now D.C. on a daily basis? I want my country back and so do millions upon millions of others. It has become unrecognizable in barely two months of this demagogue's ascension to the presidency.
23
This 70 year old child, by cutting 23% of State Dept. staff, should slow application time well into the 22nd century!
17
from the article this seems I'll conceived and implementation not thought out.
history of where lived, phones, counties visited, and more going back 10 years... I recently had to do that in a multi-page visa application. examining facebook timeline. fine. but all this needs to be done by a person trained in investigation. a private eye?
leave it to the whims of most embassy personnel and it will be cursory at best and biased. perfect for making screening worse not better. and without adding staff and investigators it will make screening more cursory.
then there is the decrease of visitors to the US .... and the decrease in tourism and business trips. and the loss of jobs. if every person who gets a job multiplies into 5 or more other jobs, for every job lost the same multiplier applies.
All smoke. no substance. might look "good". but at best does nothing. and more likely harms security.
impulsive not thought out not planned move.
history of where lived, phones, counties visited, and more going back 10 years... I recently had to do that in a multi-page visa application. examining facebook timeline. fine. but all this needs to be done by a person trained in investigation. a private eye?
leave it to the whims of most embassy personnel and it will be cursory at best and biased. perfect for making screening worse not better. and without adding staff and investigators it will make screening more cursory.
then there is the decrease of visitors to the US .... and the decrease in tourism and business trips. and the loss of jobs. if every person who gets a job multiplies into 5 or more other jobs, for every job lost the same multiplier applies.
All smoke. no substance. might look "good". but at best does nothing. and more likely harms security.
impulsive not thought out not planned move.
If they really want to protect the country from dangerous people stronger screening of political appointees would be more appropriate.
35
This move invites more lawsuits.
5
All my European friends and family have manifested serious doubts and concerns about the new US policy towards foreigners in general . Nobody wants to visit the US and decided to change their vacation plans for the summer . The damage inflicted by this administration in such a short time is appalling.
19
How much more effective, albeit more expensive, would it be simply to hire more and better trained interviewers and give them, say, 10 minutes per applicant? There's a lot more to be gathered face-to-face about a person and their truthfulness than in any number of written answers to written questions. If we want better security, let's just pay to do it the right way and dispense with ineffective discriminatory stereotypes.
5
Who is going to review the entire social media swamp any traveller has waded through in 5 min!?
Baloney!
Baloney!
1
The real Trump plan is to build a wall, physical or otherwise, all around the U.S. Make it as onerous as possible for anyone to enter. And when U.S. citizens leave and want to re-enter, search their computers and cell phones, isolate them for hours and interrogate them. What next, body cavity searches? Put everyone who dares dissent on a no-fly list?
I am so sick of hearing the President referred to as "leader of the free world," or this country as part of the "free world." For many years we have been incarcerating more of our citizens than any other nation. Now we are turning the entire nation into a vast prison.
I am so sick of hearing the President referred to as "leader of the free world," or this country as part of the "free world." For many years we have been incarcerating more of our citizens than any other nation. Now we are turning the entire nation into a vast prison.
19
So fear is dominating Trump policies.
How could this go wron
How could this go wron
4
This is great news, now if Parker and Meghan ever look up from their smart phone they can maybe get that job those Asians, who had actually taken math and science, were unfairly given.
10
This and at the same time a huge budget cut for State? Where will the staff come from to implement this cable? Tillerson - and Trump - seem to think you can have your cake and eat it too.
14
i KNEW LITERALLY HUNDREDS OF "STUDENT-VISA" FOREIGNERS,WHO CAME HERE,TO BIG CITIES,AND DISAPPEARED INTO AMERICA FOREVER--EVEN HOLDING REAL JOBS.--it was EASY for them to get that visa,come here,and never get thrown out--I knew a ton of them.--they stayed lifetimes,socializing with "their nationality",so do I think getting and staying in USA is easy?I saw it done,all the time.Now,imagine at least some of them are terrorists,even a few.
14
You mean like McVeigh, BK, Una, Eric Rudolph, Dylann Roof,..types?
1
Right, this is what we call "immigration." It's what built this country.
1
Sounds like a solid plan to me. Thank you for trying to keep the USA safe.
17
To date just about all terrorist attacks in the US have been committed by American citizens or by people presently living in the US. Unfortunately the same occurred yesterday in the UK as well. Although screening is important it has not prevented people who do come to the US from becoming angry and upset or citizens deciding to go postal. By the way should the US mail service also do extreme vetting for their employees? The term postal did come from a series of incidents committed by postal workers. Born and raised in America.
8
This is what Rex Tillerson has been up to? Sad.
In those countries where the US currently makes it most arduous to obtain a visa, the visa requirements are arduous in return (Brazil, anyone)? So what will ultimately happen as a result of this new regulation is that those countries targeted will make it much more difficult for American citizens to obtain visas as well. This is the usual short-sighted, close-the-borders move from Trump and his minions. It's hardly tourists and business people that are participating in terrorist attacks.
8
A man as experienced and knowledgeable as Mr. Tillerson is should recognize the importance of international travel in its many forms. He must understand quite well why people from around the world have sought opportunities to be educated, to work, to tour, and to become citizens of the United States.
How would the man who interviewed me during my last health care appointment have faired under this proposed system of extreme vetting, I wonder. He brought his family here from Sudan, where he practiced medicine until honoring the Hypocratic Oath became a liability. He had treated all who needed medical attention, regardless of origin or recent affiliation. But, when the lives of his wife and children were threatened as a result of his commitment to heal all who need healing, he brought them to this place where they might live in peace and without fear.
But he told me late last fall that he now fears for his family's stafety here. Coming from a place where boundaries between the good and the bad blur, and affiliations and acts may be interpreted in many ways, he felt that his presence here could be questioned without consideration for individual circumstances. How could anyone determine in five minutes and with available history, whether to allow them to build a future here with confidence?
How would the man who interviewed me during my last health care appointment have faired under this proposed system of extreme vetting, I wonder. He brought his family here from Sudan, where he practiced medicine until honoring the Hypocratic Oath became a liability. He had treated all who needed medical attention, regardless of origin or recent affiliation. But, when the lives of his wife and children were threatened as a result of his commitment to heal all who need healing, he brought them to this place where they might live in peace and without fear.
But he told me late last fall that he now fears for his family's stafety here. Coming from a place where boundaries between the good and the bad blur, and affiliations and acts may be interpreted in many ways, he felt that his presence here could be questioned without consideration for individual circumstances. How could anyone determine in five minutes and with available history, whether to allow them to build a future here with confidence?
8
On a related surreal and dreadful note, this week the African Global Economic and Development Summit was held at the University of Southern California. Delegations from Africa come to this annual meeting to confer with US. business leaders and government officials. This year there were NO delegations from Africa, because everyone from Africa was denied a visa. This is true craziness and can have nothing but bad consequences--for the U.S. as well as African nations.
Each year, delegations from Africa meet with officials and business leaders in the US for the African Global Economic and Development (AGED) Summit.
Each year, delegations from Africa meet with officials and business leaders in the US for the African Global Economic and Development (AGED) Summit.
14
I have a Master Card, but was thinking about getting a Visa. Looks like I waited too long...
7
Cut the State Dept budget, tell interviewers not to take longer than 5 min per applicant (120/day), and implement "extreme vetting". The emphasis is not on safety, it's on racism.
4
All the Trump critics who think that the tourism $ is more important than national security should get a grip. A sovereign nation who has experienced too many terror attacks should beef up national security measures / policy. The government owes its citizens that much; national security should be of the highest priority of any government. Similar measures should have been put in place directly after 9/11 by Bush, instead of invading Iraq. Better late than never.
11
President Trump is in the process of fulfilling Osama ben Laden's fondest wish: harming the US economy. Our country through these policies, the TSA, and other Homeland Security activities is consuming billions of dollars in dollars diverted from necessary productive investments like infrastructure and health care, draining untold valuable hours of work effort from business travelers - both domestic and foreign, and interrupting international trade and personal communication - while at the same time stoking unnecessary fear.
87
I'm sure Osama bin Laden would much prefer lax immigration procedures, but he probably really appreciates the democrats repeatedly calling Trump's policies, "Anti-Muslim". You cannot buy advertising like that!
4
My father was American (from a family very much in The Daughters of the Revolution mode) and my mother English. Nowadays my brother lives in Texas, and I live in England. Despite my impeccable "credentials", I am completely put off visiting the States for maybe years. So goodness knows how many other tourists, family members,students, and valuable workers will be put off. But I guess that's the point, to make America like Russia!
73
Your post captures exactly my first thought upon reading the headline. Thanks.
There's obviously something you're not telling us here!
1
Unless you are involved with any type of unsavory actions, you need not worry according to the article itself:
"The new rules generally do not apply to citizens of 38 countries — including most of Europe and longstanding allies like Australia, New Zealand, Japan and South Korea — who can be speedily admitted into the United States under the visa waiver program. That program does not cover citizens from any country in the Middle East or Africa."
"The new rules generally do not apply to citizens of 38 countries — including most of Europe and longstanding allies like Australia, New Zealand, Japan and South Korea — who can be speedily admitted into the United States under the visa waiver program. That program does not cover citizens from any country in the Middle East or Africa."
1
These measures are more burdensome than the GDR screening process to allow its citizens to cross back and forth to FRG prior to reunification. I wonder if the additional time to process this paperwork takes into account that the Embassies budget will be cut nearly 30% under Comrade Donald's budget.
9
Trump doesn't know what he's doing and Tillerson is out of his element. "Making it tougher for millions of visitors to enter the United States..." Now that makes lots and lots of sense for promoting tourism and providing jobs in one industry. Aren't there already multiple checks on people coming to the U.S.?
13
"Mr. Chen, of the American Immigration Lawyers Association, questioned how a single interviewer who conducts 120 interviews per day — at about five minutes per interview — could improve security for the visa process."
This appears to be a ham-fisted way for Mr. Trump to keep one of his main campaign promises to make it harder for evil Muslims to enter the country. I've never understood this term, 'extreme vetting," other than potentially an "extreme administrative hassle" designed to thwart the awarding of visas.
Don't our embassies have enough to do without adding a magic number of 120 rapid-fire interviews of visa applicants for which they would be on the hook to ensure safety? It seems like bureaucratic mumbo-jumbo designed to help Trump maintain his bombastic bluster about how tough he is so he can continue to win applause at rallies.
Everything I've read about the vetting of visa applicants tells me this new "policy' adds nothing to an already rigorous process. The only "bad hombres" entering this country were the Saudi henchmen of 9/11. After our crackdown on terrorism under Bush, practically all terrorism has been committed by bad guys born here and radicalized in the United States.
Adding the word "extreme"--but essentially only lengthening a paper trail of proof, rather than adding an extra process step somebody missed--won't help our already ample vetting.
It's hypocritical, and will only add expense and time to an already functioning system.
This appears to be a ham-fisted way for Mr. Trump to keep one of his main campaign promises to make it harder for evil Muslims to enter the country. I've never understood this term, 'extreme vetting," other than potentially an "extreme administrative hassle" designed to thwart the awarding of visas.
Don't our embassies have enough to do without adding a magic number of 120 rapid-fire interviews of visa applicants for which they would be on the hook to ensure safety? It seems like bureaucratic mumbo-jumbo designed to help Trump maintain his bombastic bluster about how tough he is so he can continue to win applause at rallies.
Everything I've read about the vetting of visa applicants tells me this new "policy' adds nothing to an already rigorous process. The only "bad hombres" entering this country were the Saudi henchmen of 9/11. After our crackdown on terrorism under Bush, practically all terrorism has been committed by bad guys born here and radicalized in the United States.
Adding the word "extreme"--but essentially only lengthening a paper trail of proof, rather than adding an extra process step somebody missed--won't help our already ample vetting.
It's hypocritical, and will only add expense and time to an already functioning system.
24
My work brings me into regular contact with talented students abroad and I frequently receive inquiries on where they might study X, Y, or Z, or whether the University of ? is a good place for graduate work in chemistry. No longer will I recommend U.S. universities. Canada is an excellent alternative. It is time for major international scientific conferences to begin to offshore meetings to spare our colleagues from abroad the difficulties of getting a visa. I notice the Latin American Studies Association is meeting in Lima, then Barcelona. There seem to be plenty of wealthy Russian oligarchs to spend their money in the US. Help the scientists and engineers by meeting outside the US.
31
Canada is also vetting people who want to enter the country. Soon the government will change its visa waver policies regarding Mexicans. So here you are!
1
This will go over well with the tourist industry - not!
Between this, the rumored BAT (Border Adjustment Tax) and a proposed trillion dollar cut to healthcare by replacing ACA (Obamacare) with AHCA, aka American Hell Care Act (Trumpcare or Ryancare), the U.S. economy can go from first to worst a couple of years,
And let's not forget all these will happen on the back of another tax cut to the extremely wealthy.
So America is repeating the 2001 - 2008 mistake
Between this, the rumored BAT (Border Adjustment Tax) and a proposed trillion dollar cut to healthcare by replacing ACA (Obamacare) with AHCA, aka American Hell Care Act (Trumpcare or Ryancare), the U.S. economy can go from first to worst a couple of years,
And let's not forget all these will happen on the back of another tax cut to the extremely wealthy.
So America is repeating the 2001 - 2008 mistake
29
Paris – congratulations, your 2024 Olympic bid versus LA would now seem be a lock.
107
Good! Let them have it.
4
From what I have read, the visa application is already lengthy and cumbersome. I suspect that the extra vetting will only delay further the process without uncovering any more than the present approach. But, Trump, of course will claim that he has saved the country from dangerous dudes.
49
anyone familiar with the visa vetting process knows you are right.
3
The visa application process is actually not all that lengthy - all of the questions on the visa application are reasonable and most are of the name, rank, and serial number type - presumably to be used in search engines and the like.
I just helped complete an application for my mother in law, who is visiting on a tourist visa. It took less than an hour to complete online. Truthfully, the hardest part of the whole process was taking a digital photo with an iPhone that met the State Department requirements for shape, size, and resolution. Once complete, she sent her application and her passport to the US Embassy. She needed to visit the US Embassy in Kiev, Ukraine for an interview a week later that was about 5-10 minutes. After answering questions, she was issued a 10 year multiple entry visa. Her passport was returned to her about 5 days later. In all it was less than two weeks from application to receipt of her visa. Ten years from now, she can apply to renew her visa, which should be simply an administrative exercise so long as she does not overstay her visa. Most people spend longer preparing their tax returns than they ever would applying for a visa.
I just helped complete an application for my mother in law, who is visiting on a tourist visa. It took less than an hour to complete online. Truthfully, the hardest part of the whole process was taking a digital photo with an iPhone that met the State Department requirements for shape, size, and resolution. Once complete, she sent her application and her passport to the US Embassy. She needed to visit the US Embassy in Kiev, Ukraine for an interview a week later that was about 5-10 minutes. After answering questions, she was issued a 10 year multiple entry visa. Her passport was returned to her about 5 days later. In all it was less than two weeks from application to receipt of her visa. Ten years from now, she can apply to renew her visa, which should be simply an administrative exercise so long as she does not overstay her visa. Most people spend longer preparing their tax returns than they ever would applying for a visa.
3
@Mike, I suppose that it varies from what part of the world the applicant comes from.
1
The 9/11 terrorists came in on student visas that were summarily issud with no background checks. Every president since that time has tightened visa issuance regulations. It's naive to think that our allies don't carefully vet those from the Middle East and North Africa who travel with visas, and in some instances, they harshly vet citizens of allied countries as well. When I applied for a long term visa for France, I had to go through a lengthy 6 month process, provide reams of financial documentation, undergo a lengthy interview in The US, and another one once in France within 90 days where I had to register with local authorities and keep them apprised when I moved. None of this offended me or dissuaded me. As a former FSO at State, I see absolutely nothing wrong with throughly checking the backgrounds of those from non visa waiver countries, just as Europe and Australia do. Entering a foreign country is a privilege, not a right.
54
SW, you are naively and incorrectly comparing the basically financial checks that you went through and that required for a long term visa which includes the possibility of access to state funds and financial schemes such as pensions and health care with those required for a tourist visa. Moreover, you have put in the little caveat "non-waiver countries" to rationalize and systemetize non-disruption to your own personal holidaymaking even though this exposes a massive loophole. Yep, you pretty much confirm everything this 20+ year multi-country expat has come to expect with it comes to "FSOs at State" and cognitive dissonance. Incidentally, if the checks are so tough in Europe, how is it exactly that, statistically speaking, Europe probably has two orders of magnitude more foreign-born extremists than the US does?
5
Long term is quite different than a trip to visit friends in Paris! That is what this will
1
Agreed. But you seem to think that getting a visa to come here is easy. It is not, it is just as hard as the process you described. It is also expensive. So basically, it is already pretty hard to get a visa. The president is going to make it even harder, and probably longer, that is all.
2
This is great! One step towards Trump's (Bannon's) utopia: zero Muslims, minimum other aliens, ban all imports, 10x military spending, bag & drag all corporations back to America. Let's make America "great" again!
35
Yes, this is One step closer to Bannon's objective--fewer foreign-born people living in our country. He doesn't make a secret of it, so why did so many believe they were only targeting "illegals"? I can't tell you how many times I've heard "duh, just come here legally. It's the law!" But it was never about the law, following rules, any of that. It's xenophobia and stupid, ugly nationalism.
1
How about tougher screening of cabinet appointees?
431
That was up to Congressional Democrats. And they proved to be weak and ineffective. Without BOLDNESS and UNITY in the Democratic Party, we will continue to lose.
2
There it is. The Muslim Ban, buried inside this new draconian process.
119
Sounds reasonable.Why doesn't Europe do this?
33
Because it has managed so far to avoid the Trumps of this word. Have you thought of emigrating to Trump's USA?
1
Because they're not fanatics?
3
Because the EU is willing to destroy itself in the name of political correctness.
5
Tourism is already seriously down and this sends a clear message: we don't want *you* and we don't want *your* business because... well, because we have ignorant leadership sacrificing the nation's good, --its reputation, and its economy-- all for empty political posturing and lies. Mr. Tillerson, who knows better should be ashamed.
125
He's the "former" CEO of ExxonMobil, the company that has brought us wonderful environmental miracles like the Valdez spill.
His very job there, and in the Now-Indeed-Quite-White House among such champions of citizens and civil rights as Bannon, Sessions, Conway, and (oops) Perry, depends on him to not know better.
#rainTheSwamp
His very job there, and in the Now-Indeed-Quite-White House among such champions of citizens and civil rights as Bannon, Sessions, Conway, and (oops) Perry, depends on him to not know better.
#rainTheSwamp
2
It appears Mr. Tillerson is in a job he only thought was good on his resume, not the retirement plum where he could sit back and put his feet on his desk. Besides, didn't his wife tell him to take this? Wonder how Robert Gates feels now about recommending Mr. Low Energy High on Russia and Putin guy.
1
Very large numbers of supposed "tourists" from Asia, Africa and Latin America overstay their visas.
Visa overstays are half of all illegal immigrants,
and half of them -- i.e. one fourth of the total of all illegal immigrants --
are visa overstays from Latin America, especially Mexico and Central America --
that's in addition to the half of illegal immigrants who cross the souther border illegally, nearly all of whom are Mexican and Central American.
Visa overstays are half of all illegal immigrants,
and half of them -- i.e. one fourth of the total of all illegal immigrants --
are visa overstays from Latin America, especially Mexico and Central America --
that's in addition to the half of illegal immigrants who cross the souther border illegally, nearly all of whom are Mexican and Central American.
7
Smooth move, Mr. President. Guess we don't want tourism revenue, or doctors in our rural clinics. That's OK - our smarter neighborhood will happily welcome them to stoke their economy and enrich their intellectual capital.
154
Do you think foreign doctors have ever been admitted without a long term visa enabling them to work? Do you think that everyone in the world can just book a flight and enter the US at will? Yes, those from visa waiver countries can, but the majority of the world cannot. The naïveté of most Americans on this subject is staggering.
63
See my experiences with "student visas" above.
FYI, allowing doctors into our country doesn't mean they can practice. All foreign doctors must past an international Board exam and then do an internship/residency in their field independent of previous experience. The process takes years. The rigor to become an American doctor surpasses most other countries. Our system does not take entry into it lightly unless you have been "extremely vetted" as doctor.
7
Once tourists get wind of this they'll probably decide to visit Cuba instead of the US. Trump is a bad guy (sick). Sad.
93
Most of the real tourists -- the ones who come here, sightsee, spend money and go home at the end of their period of temporary stay -- are from visa waiver countries such as Canada, Europe, Australia, Japan and Taiwan.
The USA and its economy have no need to try to attract real tourists from other countries. Such countries are not sources of real tourists. They are sources of illegal immigration via visa overstay.
Half of all illegal immigrants are visa overstays -- and half of them are Mexicans and other Latin Americans -- that's in addition to the half of all illegal immigrants who cross the southern border illegally. Nearly all of the other half of visa overstays are Asian African. No African country qualifies for visa waiver and only Japan and a few other Asian countries qualify and, of all the Latin American countries, only Chile qualifies. Good reason for that. Virtually all of the visa overstays come from countries that do not qualify for visa overstay.
The USA and its economy have no need to try to attract real tourists from other countries. Such countries are not sources of real tourists. They are sources of illegal immigration via visa overstay.
Half of all illegal immigrants are visa overstays -- and half of them are Mexicans and other Latin Americans -- that's in addition to the half of all illegal immigrants who cross the southern border illegally. Nearly all of the other half of visa overstays are Asian African. No African country qualifies for visa waiver and only Japan and a few other Asian countries qualify and, of all the Latin American countries, only Chile qualifies. Good reason for that. Virtually all of the visa overstays come from countries that do not qualify for visa overstay.
7
Visit Cuba? Great place if you want to get arrested for not bribing the 'right' person.
4
This is where we have been sheltered against the world in the US. Everybody already goes to Cuba and has been going for years. Ask anyone from Canada. We were the only one blocked from Cuba.
African American man gets stabs to death in NYC by white former military individual born and raised in the USA with a history of psychological issues. A British born citizen with a "Muslim" name attacks people in London with an SUV and kills a police officer with a knife. An Israeli Jew with US citizenship is accused of making bomb threats to Jewish organizations around the world. All these stories occurred in the past 2 days and in Western nations were the most disturbing as terrorist threats even though, regarding lose of life, were minor compared to auto and gun deaths in the US, and also didn't have anything to do with foreign travelers.
222
Ahh but how certain are you Mark Flynn that none of those Guns and Autos didn't pass through Muslim Hands, Muslim Passengers, Muslims working at Auto Plants, Sell Guns,...
How do we know Americans that killed with their guns and cars weren't thinking of Muhammad Ali or Kareem Abdul Jabbar? It's possible, isn't it?
And why didn't Hakeem Olajawon stay in Houston and not go back to Africa after retiring from the NBA???
How do we know Americans that killed with their guns and cars weren't thinking of Muhammad Ali or Kareem Abdul Jabbar? It's possible, isn't it?
And why didn't Hakeem Olajawon stay in Houston and not go back to Africa after retiring from the NBA???
1
Yes, so while the 10 ring circus goes on over healthcare, these hapless clowns keep trying to manipulate the borders. What a nightmare.
57
Guam has been working hard to develop a reputation as a paradise for weddings for the Asian market. I just received word that several brides have cancelled plans to come here and are going to Thailand and the Philippines instead. Trump's extreme vetting is a real job killer.
97
Having been to Thailand, the Philippines, and Guam, I can say they will get more for less in Thailand and the Philippines. Guam is expensive and not as nice. What's with the $50/hour taxis, anyway?
2
ohmigod, someone cancelled their wedding to Guam. Let's throw open the borders.
9
Better a job killer than people killers
4
Well, there will be lots of new US government jobs for investigators, probably posted in foreign countries. Trump said he would create lots of new jobs.
Of course, the Muslim bans have insulted enough travelers that only the most determined will want to visit the US anymore.
Cutting tourism will really give these new inspectors a chance to keep up with the case load. Fewer tourists will make Trump and his gang feel more secure while those who live on the tourist industry will need to get jobs as investigators for visas.
Wonder how Trump Hotels in the US will do?
Of course, the Muslim bans have insulted enough travelers that only the most determined will want to visit the US anymore.
Cutting tourism will really give these new inspectors a chance to keep up with the case load. Fewer tourists will make Trump and his gang feel more secure while those who live on the tourist industry will need to get jobs as investigators for visas.
Wonder how Trump Hotels in the US will do?
36
The tourists who are coming to the U.S. now are anthropologist types who want to see the U.S. before it crumbles under this kind of bizarre crack in the universe that allowed this ridiculous situation to occur in the first place.
5
Once again, a solution in search of a problem. This is all a sad cover for Trump's campaign rhetoric.
171
Funny how most of the people who are against extensive vetting live in areas where there has never been a terrorist attack and never will be, isn't it?
4
Wow, great business move guys!
What a sad sorry mess.
What a sad sorry mess.
70
What the Trump Administration doesn't understand is that most visa applicants are not potential immigrants and ghat hurts the U.S. economy and will lower the demand for turism visa or student visa. Has he ever seen an American Embassy anywhere around the world? In Brazil the lines were huge and the visa application process already scrutinizes applicant's life to ensure one's not tryi g to immigrate or has any ill intentions when visiting here.
How much more are they going to scrutinize one's life? Is it going to be to the point where tourists and students and qualified workers will choose another destination? This is loss of potential revenue.
How much more are they going to scrutinize one's life? Is it going to be to the point where tourists and students and qualified workers will choose another destination? This is loss of potential revenue.
88
The embassies are already stretched. The officers will have to reject people because they just do not have the time and resources to do this.
1
A step in the right direction!
35
Seriously?
27
Only if the right direction is over the cliff
6
I believe you meant, but in your hast to post, neglected to include "far".
5
This this is a huge hit against higher education, tourism, health care. There is no demonstrated need for it. We have not experienced a rash of terrorist attacks from people coming in as tourists. The vetting system already in place has generally been sufficient.
314
Supposedly 41% of undocumented people in the US are people who overstayed their visas. If they will lie about their length of stay what else might they lie about? If you can't prove you are trust worthy we do not want you.
But that will most likely be a terrorists next scheme; disguising themselves as a Hawaiian tourist with cameras and pineapples and… Ooooh, exploding pineapples? I could just imagine reading the headline tomorrow:
(somebody else fill in the blank for me)
(somebody else fill in the blank for me)
Hawaiian tourist? Is Hawaii a foreign country?
3
kill off the tourist industry
good show, lads, good show
138
Not to mention continue to leave people who are here or plan to work here on H1B Visas--in limbo. Brilliant. I know I am so much safer for this xenophobic activity.
36
Tourism and international students all hurt by this. Wait till other countries start to retaliate.
3
Speaking of H1B visas, that's another program that needs to be eliminated. Just a way for companies to displace Americans with cheap foreign labor. Send the H1B workers packing.
5
US Tourism data (from trade.travel.gov - for FY 2015): Tourism is 2.6% of GDP, supports 7.6 million jobs (5.4 million direct; 2.2 million indirect; 1.2 million total jobs supported by international visitor spending in the United States) and overall $1.6 trillion is generated in travel & tourism total sales ($905.9 billion direct; $657.5 billion indirect).
I wonder what these figures will look like in two or three years.
I wonder what these figures will look like in two or three years.
147
Canada Girl Guides have cancelled all trips to the US indefinitely. Schools across our Country are cancelling trips to the US. Your closest ally, neighbor, and biggest trading partner is cautious about crossing the border. Doesn't bode well..for the US.
8
Can't say as I blame you.
1
And how is this "extreme vetting" supposed to work when Trump's budget also includes cutting State Dept's budget by 30%? Ah, I get it. It's not supposed to work. It's got nothing to do with enhanced security, and everything to do with keeping "foreigners" out of America. Genius.
279
It’s also an easy way for them to look “tough” when they know perfectly well (assuming they’ve even looked into it) that the existing process is already extremely thorough, involving multiple hearings, and other investgative procedures. It’s just red meat for the base.
6
The evil genius of this is it is a Muslim ban that will survive legal challenge, with the added benefit of pushing talented, conscientious consular agents out of government. Overworked, underfunded officials will do what overworked, underfunded people do when saddled with more work - they'll take shortcuts (or quit). Just to get through the day and the huge stack of applications, they will give a pass to all the easy cases (east Asians, white Europeans, rich people) and (regretfully) put everyone else with a complicated life history, Muslim names, etc., into visa purgatory. Thousands of lives get put on hold, wondering why they don't get a callback from the embassies. It's really sick.
2
It's only about the theater. It's not reality; it's a reality show.
2
Have these people such a myopic vision that they cannot see how this will impact Americans and American businesses? Do they really think acting like the Soviet Union is a plan to make America great again? Mean spirited and giddy with power they have no discernment. It is pure folly.
130
Great, just great! people whose skills and perspectives this country really needs will look elsewhere. There are choices. Hello Canada! We can start adding up our losses sooner than we think.
Tomorrow's Silicon Valley in the Okanogan of British Columbia? Invest now!
www.endthemadnessnow.org
Tomorrow's Silicon Valley in the Okanogan of British Columbia? Invest now!
www.endthemadnessnow.org
77
And how are VISITORS supposed to "fill the skills and perspectives that this country really needs"? Please explain.
5
Scientists coming to conferences won't be able to attend. That's one example. Last week, the annual African trade conference had to be held without representatives of any African countries. There's a second example. I'm sure there are many more. Please educate yourself and please think.
3
@Phil - Congratulations on your demonstration of Trump-type thinking: shallow.
1
This is going to devastate our economy, hurt our innovation, make it hard to recruit the best employees and top students, cost money, and won't make us an iota safer.
209
The Trump administration basically indirectly instructed consular officials in embassies around the world to stop giving visas to Muslims.
154
This affects everyone from non visa waiver countries, including millions of Buddhist, Hindus, Christians, and even atheists.
10
Finally!
3
Yes, SW, but they are not the target, Muslims are.
2
This looks something handcrafted by Bannon and Miller. Overall, this fits perfectly well with the administration's goal of restricting all kinds of immigration and finding some national security justification for it. It's only a matter of time before they come after the people who aren't affected by this current order.
131
Perhaps we should find ways to restrict people like Manafort, Carter Page, Roger Stone, and Trump himself--they are the real danger.
5
"Overall, this fits perfectly well with the administration's goal of restricting all kinds of immigration..."
You do realize that the new measures apply to NON-IMMIGRANT (visitor's visas). don't you? The process for IMMIGRANT visas is already complicated and has been so for years and has involved higher a vetting process than what is proposed by the new directive.
You do realize that the new measures apply to NON-IMMIGRANT (visitor's visas). don't you? The process for IMMIGRANT visas is already complicated and has been so for years and has involved higher a vetting process than what is proposed by the new directive.
2