If you think that Columbus doesn't really count as "putting your money where your mouth is" because he didn't move to the town he grew up in, you are nuts. Columbus is a different planet from Silicon Valley. This was a huge change.
95
Welcome to Columbus, Mr. Vance. Hillbilly Elegy was amazing on so many levels and I'm delighted that you have relocated here ! I hope you like Columbus - I think you will, at least for awhile. I have been here 6 years and I'm pretty much mezze-mezze about it. I live in a neighborhood that mirrors the kind of Southern Ohio small city you describe in your book, with their relatives and descendants, aka The Hilltop. Life is pretty insane and stressful here. Lots of drug dealing and prostitution, all twisted up together and related to the opioid epidemic...prescription pill sellers right on my block.. Again, welcome !
39
Didn't Franklin County OH, where the progressive city of Columbus is located, go solidly for Clinton last year, and has been a Democratic stronghold for last few elections? Be honest -- I don't think you're really going home.
52
I have a comment I make to groups I work with, that do mission/development work in places that are quote "less advantaged" than the ones the participants come from: don't pity the people you are trying to help. Everybody's life has beauty and grace and dignity, worthy of respect. Secondly, LISTEN twice as much to the people you visit/work with than you talk to/teach/help. HEAR their stories/point of view. They know the most about their lives/situation, they will still be there when you are gone, and many of them already have ideas for how to create new opportunities for their communities and just need some help.
60
Columbus isn't Appalachia
90
Mr. Vance: How/where can I learn more about your foundation to combat the opioid epidemic? Are you just targeting Ohio?
20
I think this may work for you, J.D., because you are conservative. I live in a super ZIP (Arlington, VA), and my entire family lives in South Carolina. I could never move back home to South Carolina because the conservative/Red State movement is so ugly now. It is not welcoming of diverse views or people, especially not now when Trump makes it "OK" to be that way. Sure, some South Carolinians are liberal or more open-minded, but the prevailing feeling is to look DOWN on anything progressive. My goal is to raise my children in the most positive, intellectually-stimulating environment possible, and going home would be going backwards. Not willing to let that happen -- they get one shot at childhood.
Loved your book, though - too bad I didn't read it BEFORE the election, or maybe I wouldn't been so freakin' shocked!
Loved your book, though - too bad I didn't read it BEFORE the election, or maybe I wouldn't been so freakin' shocked!
111
Mr.Vance,
I've heard you on TED and elsewhere, and read a bit of your writing. The humanity and compassion of your words never fail to touch my heart. Thank you, and may God bless everyone's hometown. We're all from somewhere.
I've heard you on TED and elsewhere, and read a bit of your writing. The humanity and compassion of your words never fail to touch my heart. Thank you, and may God bless everyone's hometown. We're all from somewhere.
40
Columbus is hardly rural Ohio.
64
Hard to imagine that your wife, a native of San Diego, willingly agreed to move to Columbus. What considerations did you make of this momentous change imposed on her???? Sounds like a one-sided decision on your part made to benefit YOU. A bit selfish, perhaps?
60
wonderful opinion piece J.D. and more power to you for following your convictions, for not being afraid, and for not "classifying" groups of people for the decisions they've made about their lives. What you and your wife are doing is sacrificial and courageous. Godspeed to you in your efforts to help our fellow mankind.
Sometimes an opinion piece is just that, an opinion; and it doesn't necessarily require an analysis or criticism. I see you and I choose not to judge you for being more courageous than me.
Sometimes an opinion piece is just that, an opinion; and it doesn't necessarily require an analysis or criticism. I see you and I choose not to judge you for being more courageous than me.
13
Cormac McCarthy sums it up nicely in his novel, Cities of the Plain: "You go back home and everything you wished was different is still the same and everything you wished was the same is different." Yep, sounds 'bout right to me.
115
Uh, Columbus is actually a major political center of the US, hardly a small town. Next step, state legislature, JD? Or, are your handlers aiming for Senate already?
69
Columbus is cool because isn't there a big college there?
I resent your pearl-clutching about flyover rednecks. That is not denigrating, but truthful: you don't go there because there be monsters.
I resent your pearl-clutching about flyover rednecks. That is not denigrating, but truthful: you don't go there because there be monsters.
48
Thank you, Vance! Many of my friends too actually look down on people living in the "flyover zone", something that troubles me deeply. Lincoln's great insight, that the union must be preserved above all, includes a kind of cultural cross-insemination. We are one with varied views and ways of doing things, but we are one, we are the UNITED STATES.
You're piece also contains a great insight, one that is obvious but heavily ignored in America, and that is: make decisions with an eye for benefiting others, with an eye towards the collective good. If the people around you are doing better, particularly because you helped them, you will live a more meaningful life. Ameican culture, with its emphasis on individual achievement, often makes it hard to perceive this basic truth. Your fate is tied to others. Treat them well and think about them, and you shall be better off for it.
You're piece also contains a great insight, one that is obvious but heavily ignored in America, and that is: make decisions with an eye for benefiting others, with an eye towards the collective good. If the people around you are doing better, particularly because you helped them, you will live a more meaningful life. Ameican culture, with its emphasis on individual achievement, often makes it hard to perceive this basic truth. Your fate is tied to others. Treat them well and think about them, and you shall be better off for it.
39
Good for you! But please don't lie to your fellow neighbors about the policies that will hurt them. Trump has used these people enough.
52
The solution to the opioids problem in these rural small towns with no work is to stop feeling sorry for yourself and get up and migrate to somewhere there is work. Migrating to find a better life takes strength, courage, and hope, which you aren't going to find in a pill bottle. Oh that's right, economic migrants are all rapist, murderers, and bad hombres. Never mind. Stay where you are.
50
If Zanesville or Akron or Youngstown had San Diego's weather, we'd all want to live there.
23
While I applaud his cause,I feel for his wife. While he is traveling the country, she will be in Columbus Ohio rather than her home, San Diego.
60
You're moving to Columbus, not Middletown. Big difference. If the rest of the US thinks Columbus is the pits, I'm really isolated.
50
Moving to an educated affluent hub like Columbus, Ohio is not moving to the rural places he writes about.
75
As a Wheeling, WV native who moved to NYC and then Savannah, GA, I have to ask you, why would you subject your children to the bulling that happened to us both in this part of the country? I would never move back and subject my child to that. As for the weather, tell your wife to get a light box for the winter. It's so grey and overcast in the winter (as much as Seattle I believe) she will be starved for light.
Your biggest challenge will be to surround yourself with folks with different viewpoints. I'm sure you can find a huge community of lefties in Columbus, but that's not what you are returning for, correct?
Your biggest challenge will be to surround yourself with folks with different viewpoints. I'm sure you can find a huge community of lefties in Columbus, but that's not what you are returning for, correct?
25
Vance's nonprofit is run by John Kasich's political advisor, who knows nothing about the opioid problem, and a lot more about politics. This is brilliant politics for a bid for office.
119
Mr Vance - some of us are immigrants and we do not want, nor can we go back home. And last I checked, Columbus is not exactly home for you, it is just closer. But if it makes you feel better why not. Hope the marriage survives.
45
Columbus? Home to Ohio State Univ., Limited Brands, Nationwide Insurance, etc. This is the hinterlands? Really?
71
I read J.D. Vance book Hillbilly Elegy and loved it. I saw a lot of myself in the book because even though I am a Black American who grew up in rural south west Alabama, our life experiences are very similar. I moved back home in 2010 after being unemployed for 2 years in the northeast. My relocation to rural south west Alabama was one of the worst mistakes of my life. On March 14, 2017, I awaken to an unemployment rate for Monroe County, Alabama of 10.3 percent. I have been unemployed and underemployed for 7 years. There are no jobs in Monroe County, Alabama. The factories packed up and left here after the creation of NAFTA. We watched 3000 jobs walk out of Monroe County for the country Mexico and no one is doing anything about it. What about us? Everyone talks about the Rust Belt but what about the Black Belt? We have an unemployment rate almost three times the national average but no one is talking about it. Monroe County is predominantly Black and heavily Democratic but Donald Trump won this county because he said that he was going to roll back NAFTA. We want to work and support our families but there are no jobs. What are we to do?
#MCAWEWANTJOBS!
#MCAWEWANTJOBS!
64
Interesting reading this article after watching Cinema Paradiso. In the film, the young man's older friend tells him to leave the Italian village to go to Rome and never come back. I know it is a film but I wonder what would the older generation tell the young people - stay? Go? Return?
12
The problem is a culture that refuses to accept the need to change. If there are jobs there, and not here, move there. If you don't have the tools for a different kind of work, gain them. If you're just not willing to leave your "cultural bubble," then stop whining about the lack of jobs and the "control of the elites."
55
"An east-coast girl will never survive in Ohio" - my husband
17
It's admirable to savor yesteryear, when we grew up and came of age. Lovely to long for our past, and our past friends -- even though they've moved to greener pastures. It's adventurous to rough-it in the "bad-lands" of a dirt-poor mid-west small town... for a month.
Nostalgia and homesickness tug at the heart. But those emotions cling to a reality that never returns.
The truth is: metropolitan cities and Super ZIPs bring success purely from diversity -- not just of income -- but also of thought, speech, gentrification, religion, arts, country of origin, skin-color, even weight. These areas have intrinsic advantages of efficiency -- market efficiencies. Cities are prosperous because they amplify the concept of "economy of scale" 100-fold. Their 'burbs do it too, just a bit less.
Compared to the rural dust-bowls and truck-stops along flyover country, these metropolitan areas and Super ZIPs are truly better, for economic opportunities, per-capita efficiencies, and a stable free lifestyle. They allow freedoms, and its commensurate success. This is why, the world over, metropolitan cities are successful, and always have greater employment.
The downsides to "city living" are anonymity, tight quarters, a lack of community, and a much faster pace of life. Suburbs balance softer rural elements with urbanism.
If good employment is important, then no matter what else you long for, large cities and their proximate suburbs always provide more opportunities.
Take a risk. Move.
Nostalgia and homesickness tug at the heart. But those emotions cling to a reality that never returns.
The truth is: metropolitan cities and Super ZIPs bring success purely from diversity -- not just of income -- but also of thought, speech, gentrification, religion, arts, country of origin, skin-color, even weight. These areas have intrinsic advantages of efficiency -- market efficiencies. Cities are prosperous because they amplify the concept of "economy of scale" 100-fold. Their 'burbs do it too, just a bit less.
Compared to the rural dust-bowls and truck-stops along flyover country, these metropolitan areas and Super ZIPs are truly better, for economic opportunities, per-capita efficiencies, and a stable free lifestyle. They allow freedoms, and its commensurate success. This is why, the world over, metropolitan cities are successful, and always have greater employment.
The downsides to "city living" are anonymity, tight quarters, a lack of community, and a much faster pace of life. Suburbs balance softer rural elements with urbanism.
If good employment is important, then no matter what else you long for, large cities and their proximate suburbs always provide more opportunities.
Take a risk. Move.
33
The house I grew up is now an office park. Places I played as a kid are now Superfund toxic waste sites. Another house I lived in as a kid was bulldozed this past year to become a 6 lane road.
Be greatful the places you once called home still exist.
Be greatful the places you once called home still exist.
17
This is your country on unfettered capitalism and oligarchy (cut to picture of egg frying in pan with empty Oxycontin™ bottles on the counter in the background).
Any questions?
(the Russian PSA equivalent would have empty vodka bottles)
Any questions?
(the Russian PSA equivalent would have empty vodka bottles)
24
Somehow I don't think that moving back to rural Wisconsin to raise children in the slew of racism, sexism, and homophobia I grew up in is a net benefit for society.
83
As for me, seriously considering selling Long Beach NY house and moving to PA to organize for Dem legislators and vote in a swing state. But is there a practical plan for achieving the critical mass necessary to make D migration an electoral strategy? If not, what's the long term strategy? Demographic change may not be the magic bullet and even if it is we cannot wait for years w fingers crossed.
14
Thank God I am a New Yorker, born and raised, and have lived in the NY metro area for all of my (so far) 66 years. Born in Manhattan, raised in Queens, educated at CCNY where I met my Bronx born and raised wife of 43 years, worked at various locations in the Bronx and Manhattan, and live in Westchester in the beautiful Hudson Valley.
I do not need to go home again; I am home. I have travelled the world, and the only other place I might consider living is the SF Bay area. But here I stay.
I do not need to go home again; I am home. I have travelled the world, and the only other place I might consider living is the SF Bay area. But here I stay.
27
A lot of Americans do entirely too much flying.
11
I say hats off to your "compliant wife" (see today's Thomas Edsall piece about the decline of the white man). I hope she sticks with you and together you can make that work.
My similar experience (moving from intermittently anti-intellectual and economically depressed Maine to Toulouse, France) didn't work out because my spouse whom I met in a "super zip" (31000) wouldn't budge.
My prayers are with you Mr and Mrs Vance -- and may you help many of Ohio's lost boys find their way out of addiction and hopelessness.
My similar experience (moving from intermittently anti-intellectual and economically depressed Maine to Toulouse, France) didn't work out because my spouse whom I met in a "super zip" (31000) wouldn't budge.
My prayers are with you Mr and Mrs Vance -- and may you help many of Ohio's lost boys find their way out of addiction and hopelessness.
14
The Pretenders song "My City Was Gone" popped into my head when I was reading this article.
13
I moved to MN from NJ. I do vote Democratic but I am appalled at what many coastal Democrats think and say about those living in the hinterlands. When Hillary Clinton used the word 'deplorables' she was showing herself to be a bigoted urbanite and in the end a stupid one, since her attitude helped the GOP defeat her. She won in MN, but she didn't win in my county. The leaders of the Democratic party have forgotten how to communicate with my neighbors.
23
This article has no information as to the reason(s) JDV returned to live in Ohio - it's just a riff on sociological gibberish.
24
I heartily commend you, Mr. Vance, for your courageous and generous decision to help others as much as you can. Of course, having read and enjoyed your book, I know that you have been courageous and generous your whole life.
I hope you can take advantage of connections you made in Silicon Valley to persuade them to help those in rural, inland states by making jobs available there. If it is possible to outsource programming jobs to India or Russia, why can't those jobs be open to people in Ohio or South Dakota? Why do they need to move to California? With all the videoconferencing technology, screen-sharing apps, and other software available to us, why can't tech jobs be a part of the revitalization of America's small towns? One of the drivers of the epidemic of drug addiction is the hopelessness long-term joblessness creates. I hope you can address that, even on a small scale.
I hope you can take advantage of connections you made in Silicon Valley to persuade them to help those in rural, inland states by making jobs available there. If it is possible to outsource programming jobs to India or Russia, why can't those jobs be open to people in Ohio or South Dakota? Why do they need to move to California? With all the videoconferencing technology, screen-sharing apps, and other software available to us, why can't tech jobs be a part of the revitalization of America's small towns? One of the drivers of the epidemic of drug addiction is the hopelessness long-term joblessness creates. I hope you can address that, even on a small scale.
20
Hmm, the same could be said about immigrants to this country. Coming here causes a brain drain in their own needy countries and communities while contributing to an embarrassment of riches and talent here.
Is that necessarily the best for their home states, countries, world?
Is that necessarily the best for their home states, countries, world?
15
Typical sentimental drivel. You seem to suggest that the problem is us and the choices we (have to) make as individuals, rather than the brutality of the (capitalist) system. The transnational corporations do not care about the culture of America's smaller communities or about the people who inhabit them. I notice that you are moving back, not to the small town your family departed to earlier in your life, but to a university town, Columbus, with all the amenities of the Silicon Valley you are fleeing.
38
Wouldn't mind if a few more transplants would return home. The Bay Area has gotten too crowded and expensive for us natives.
17
Who is going to tell the rural Trump voters that the best solution to their woes is to move?
19
I have great respect for J.D. Vance. If you have not read his book, Red Neck Elegy, definitely get a copy and read it cover to cover. Every community in America needs people like him, people who seek out education, share it back, and pay it forward. Good luck Mr. Vance.
3
Mr. Vance seems to think it is remarkable for him to decide to START to LIVE in a PLACE. By this, I mean to begin homebuilding ... to begin to integrate one's life into the lives of others in a community in a meaningful way for sufficient time that your daily efforts help to build or sustain the locality you call home. Having read Mr. Vance's book, he does not seem to have had the chance to live this way earlier in life based on things outside his control, and then he embarked on various pursuits that gave him temporary, disconnected residence in a number of locations but did not, as a matter of his choice, make homebuilding a priority. So now he decides, in some sort of epiphanous moment, that he should start the sort of process of homebuilding that can be mundane, tiring, frustrating, annoying, and extremely fulfilling. Great, I say, go ahead, choose join millions of others who live that kind of normal life, rather than choose to continue to use your Yale Law degree to rake in the dough. But why the showmanship about it? And the idea of starting a nonprofit? One would hope that this is not the kind of idea where he'll ask people, the government, and organizations for donations and pay himself a salary out of that ... if so, then he's asking for others to finance his homebuilding frolic under the guise of helping addicts, which is kind of a low thing to do. (By the way, it is hardly "going home" to choose to live in the state, but not the city or town, where you grew up.)
10
Isn't the United States, and many other "New World" countries, made up of people whose ancestors moved from bad situations in the "Old Country"? Americans have for generations been seeking to improve their lives by moving to other locations for a better life. Was that all wrong?
12
I thought when I read Hillbilly Elegy that the author's best move would be to return to Ohio to do public service, to heal his heart and his people, and now I see he thinks so too. Excellent. Go on, Mr. Vance, and let me know if you need help.
7
With 150+ museums (some world-class) and 250+ live theatre venues as well as the depth of the available restaurants found in NYC, why would anyone who can afford it live elsewhere?
9
Urban and urbane spaces are for the young, restless, and talented. Rural and unsophisticated spaces are for retirees, families with young children, and dull young people who cannot live on their own. Such has been the case since human civilization began.
It's noble of you to volunteer to help those people left behind. Let's just see how long you can bear to live without stimulating company, intelligent conversation, and bars and restaurants with ambience!
It's noble of you to volunteer to help those people left behind. Let's just see how long you can bear to live without stimulating company, intelligent conversation, and bars and restaurants with ambience!
5
I lived in W.Va. for almost 8 years during my early professional life. Unlike you, I went to law school and then dedicated my practice to serving this same population, not enriching myself in the canyons of capital.
I read your book with dismay - that you would characterize yourself as a conservative, yet fail to see that your ideology has nothing to do with this population, save that it exalts the parts of the culture that are the most dysfunctional, and blames the victims of standards they cannot possibly meet and for making poor choices from uniformly poor alternatives.
The pass you give your neighbors on their racism ((i.e., that Obama is sort of like them but a "stranger", hardly passes; since he is exactly like you - raised by a stronger grandmother in the absence of effective parents; and hardly like McCain or Palin, who are monstrously "unknown" except for being angry white Christians. That's racism.
You are still a young man. In your next book, I hope you address how conservative ideology functions to reinforce stereotypes, to protect the powerful, to punish the poor and to comfort the comfortable. It certainly does not make people more generous, thoughtful, or compassionate. And isn't that also what these populations need.
I read your book with dismay - that you would characterize yourself as a conservative, yet fail to see that your ideology has nothing to do with this population, save that it exalts the parts of the culture that are the most dysfunctional, and blames the victims of standards they cannot possibly meet and for making poor choices from uniformly poor alternatives.
The pass you give your neighbors on their racism ((i.e., that Obama is sort of like them but a "stranger", hardly passes; since he is exactly like you - raised by a stronger grandmother in the absence of effective parents; and hardly like McCain or Palin, who are monstrously "unknown" except for being angry white Christians. That's racism.
You are still a young man. In your next book, I hope you address how conservative ideology functions to reinforce stereotypes, to protect the powerful, to punish the poor and to comfort the comfortable. It certainly does not make people more generous, thoughtful, or compassionate. And isn't that also what these populations need.
50
After leaving home right out high school and moving far away to the left coast I hard a very difficult time returning to my hometown i New England, even for a short visit. Everyone treated me differently including my own family. They did not like to hear about how life was 'out there' and called me a snob because I preferred good coffee instead of Dunkin' Donuts. It was awful for many years then I firmly decided I had to move on and leave them in their misery.
There are always those who will try to pull you back into the bucket if you let them. Once you've left, keep going and don't look back, especially if it's harmful. The dysfunction and despair I chose to leave doesn't change, it just gets worse. I used to blame myself and try to appease others, no more. Going back to 'the farm' is not for everyone.
There are always those who will try to pull you back into the bucket if you let them. Once you've left, keep going and don't look back, especially if it's harmful. The dysfunction and despair I chose to leave doesn't change, it just gets worse. I used to blame myself and try to appease others, no more. Going back to 'the farm' is not for everyone.
35
Mr. Vance, I strongly recommend that you read this post on fundamentalism at Alternet by Forsetti's Justice: http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/rural-america-understanding-isnt-p.... I believe that fundamentalism, a syndrome of anti-thought pervasive among the white Christians of Middle America, is the root cause of most of the fly-overs’ problems. It is what makes PizzaGate and Trumpism possible and creative problem solving impossible. Your moving to Columbus Ohio will not make the slightest dent in the impermeable shield that is the rural fundamentalist culture. Opioid addiction is the natural culmination of the fundamentalist culture. Faced with unrelenting physical and psychological pain, a toxic cocktail of various social dysfunctions, grinding economic hardship, and a work ‘till you drop retirement plan, contrasted with a risible, vainglorious self-celebration as the “real” and “exceptional” Americans , it is no wonder these people are lethally self-medicating at epidemic rates to numb the existential despair precipitated by this stark dichotomy . In this context, we should applaud the best and brightest offspring of the Heartland, as they emigrate to civilization and adopt the values of the Enlightenment. First rule: save yourself. Mr. Vance, you are a bright man and you know these people. How do we defeat fundamentalism?
20
Yes, you may be moving to your home state, but are also blanketing yourself in the comforts of a college town. Here in East Lansing, of which most people in Ann Arbor (an hour away) barely know the rough location, we are also swaddled in the warmness by progressive views and experiences - we enjoy an international population, the energy of young adults finding their place in the world, and lots of effort to maximize our small town's access to arts and culture. My point is that you are no saint or martyr for moving to Columbus, Ohio, which is arguably one of the most desirable of the towns in "flyover country." You can get a lovely house for a more than reasonable price, the schools, I assure you, will be to your satisfaction with a lovely community of worldly intellectuals of all disciplines at your disposal because they all have more free time than the families on the coasts to hang out. And fear not, you will have to make due with only three (gasp) three Whole Foods Markets and, oh no, this may be the deal breaker, only one Trader Joe's. So cry me a river, J.D. Vance.
26
Your book is a favorite of mine JD, and I absolutely respect your decision to move home. But does home want you back? Many of us on the coasts are here because of deep-seated, entrenched resentment towards those who achieve beyond the local expectation. "Too big for your britches" is real, and it's existence is totally symptomatic of why these areas are in the economic state that they're in.
24
Your wife, is, I believe, of Indian extraction. What of her safety in a part of the country that has seen multiple hate crimes against immigrants in recent weeks? It's disturbing to me that you mention your concern for the economic issues of your hometown, but none for the racism that is, apparently, endemic in that part of the country, especially towards Indians, Pakistanis, and Middle Easterners.
Why does this not concern you?
Why does this not concern you?
45
The author is a bit disingenuous. Columbus, Ohio, the home of Ohio State University and Batelle is hardly a wasteland of cultural and intellectual opportunities.
30
After 20 years of living among the 'coastal elites,' I went home.
Unfortunately, as a famous fellow Tar Heel wrote, you can't go home again. For professional and also personal reasons, I returned to living among the 'coastal elites" and I'm immensely glad that I did.
I admire JD Vance and I wish him all the best. But I think he'll end up being disappointed.
Unfortunately, as a famous fellow Tar Heel wrote, you can't go home again. For professional and also personal reasons, I returned to living among the 'coastal elites" and I'm immensely glad that I did.
I admire JD Vance and I wish him all the best. But I think he'll end up being disappointed.
24
I really don't know why JD Vance invites such vitriol. I really don't. I read his book and thought it brilliant. We cannot fix that which we cannot understand and I found his insights to be valuable.
Similarly, he is saying something here you are all missing because you're all too high up on the horse to catch the nuances......
Regardless of how cosmopolitan Columbus, Ohio may appear relative to other rural areas, it is ABSOLUTELY in a different world altogether from Silicon Valley---just as it is a different world from NYC.
To me, progressive enclaves like Columbus, Austin, Charlotte even (yes really, governmental defuse aside, Charlotte residents are fairly progressive), Atlanta etc---are little oasis in otherwise culturally desert areas. Those cities must not be abandoned; quite the contrary.
What they need is an influx of new EDUCATED people to hold at bay the voices of ignorance, poverty and racism that heralded someone like Donald Trump.
"But this focus can miss something important: that what many communities need most is not just financial support, but talent and energy and committed citizens to build viable businesses and other civic institutions."
Occupy Wall Street had something very right: change comes from within. Not sure how effective he would be returning to rural Kentucky, but having a foothold in Columbus will enable him to do his part without losing his soul.
I don't agree with Mr. Vance politically but I respect his message. So should we all.
Similarly, he is saying something here you are all missing because you're all too high up on the horse to catch the nuances......
Regardless of how cosmopolitan Columbus, Ohio may appear relative to other rural areas, it is ABSOLUTELY in a different world altogether from Silicon Valley---just as it is a different world from NYC.
To me, progressive enclaves like Columbus, Austin, Charlotte even (yes really, governmental defuse aside, Charlotte residents are fairly progressive), Atlanta etc---are little oasis in otherwise culturally desert areas. Those cities must not be abandoned; quite the contrary.
What they need is an influx of new EDUCATED people to hold at bay the voices of ignorance, poverty and racism that heralded someone like Donald Trump.
"But this focus can miss something important: that what many communities need most is not just financial support, but talent and energy and committed citizens to build viable businesses and other civic institutions."
Occupy Wall Street had something very right: change comes from within. Not sure how effective he would be returning to rural Kentucky, but having a foothold in Columbus will enable him to do his part without losing his soul.
I don't agree with Mr. Vance politically but I respect his message. So should we all.
30
Small towns breed small minds, as evidenced by their support for the so-called president.
36
"Home" for you is Ohio. But for your ancestors, it's probably Central or Northern Europe (assuming you are of the majority demographic in Ohio).
I wonder, how much damage is the US doing to places much worse than Ohio in drawing in the best local talent, people who we often reward for having left struggling locales by calling them refugees, and awarding them residency status.
I wonder, how much damage is the US doing to places much worse than Ohio in drawing in the best local talent, people who we often reward for having left struggling locales by calling them refugees, and awarding them residency status.
4
"Not long before the election, a friend forwarded me a conspiracy theory about Bill and Hillary Clinton’s involvement in a pedophilia ring and asked me whether it was true.
"It’s easy to dismiss these questions as the ramblings of “fake news” consumers. But the more difficult truth is that people naturally trust the people they know — their friend sharing a story on Facebook — more than strangers who work for faraway institutions."
"...This problem runs in both directions: I’ve heard ugly words uttered about 'flyover country' and some of its inhabitants from well-educated, generally well-meaning people."
So, Mr. Vance, your friend who leans to believing a pathological fake news story about pedophilia and the Clintons is equivalent to liberals' "ugly words uttered about 'flyover country'?
It isn't "easy" to dismiss your friend's ignorance as "fake news." You should be dismissing it as dangerous pathology.
The only "ugly words" I notice here are yours, Mr. Vance.
"It’s easy to dismiss these questions as the ramblings of “fake news” consumers. But the more difficult truth is that people naturally trust the people they know — their friend sharing a story on Facebook — more than strangers who work for faraway institutions."
"...This problem runs in both directions: I’ve heard ugly words uttered about 'flyover country' and some of its inhabitants from well-educated, generally well-meaning people."
So, Mr. Vance, your friend who leans to believing a pathological fake news story about pedophilia and the Clintons is equivalent to liberals' "ugly words uttered about 'flyover country'?
It isn't "easy" to dismiss your friend's ignorance as "fake news." You should be dismissing it as dangerous pathology.
The only "ugly words" I notice here are yours, Mr. Vance.
38
Even though Columbus, Ohio may be a long way from Youngstown, Ohio, moving from Silicon Valley to the Midwest is a start. J. D. Vance, I have always enjoyed your writings.
In you start-up to address opioid abuse, I hope you will not focus solely on preventing fatalities because the benefits are so short-lived. Instead, focus on factors that facilitates communities thriving and flourishing. This means creating stronger community connections, influencing mindset, helping people deal with anxiety and depression before they become diagnosed as major disorders, being included and actively engaged in civic life, linking people with intrinsic passions, and advocating for healthy environments.
Good Luck to you J.D. and your wife. I wish you both well.
In you start-up to address opioid abuse, I hope you will not focus solely on preventing fatalities because the benefits are so short-lived. Instead, focus on factors that facilitates communities thriving and flourishing. This means creating stronger community connections, influencing mindset, helping people deal with anxiety and depression before they become diagnosed as major disorders, being included and actively engaged in civic life, linking people with intrinsic passions, and advocating for healthy environments.
Good Luck to you J.D. and your wife. I wish you both well.
9
Mr. Vance, I read your book and found it very informative and interesting. I am lucky. I was born in Southern California- albeit Compton, California. My family left Compton in the early 60s due to white flight. My father worked as an aerospace engineer and I was extremely lucky to have an upper middle class existence. But if I really look around my city, Los Angeles, I can find the same despair and lack of opportunity right here. From my perch here in Palos Verdes I can see the cities of Wilmington, Compton, and East Los Angeles. Poverty, illness, drug addiction and lack of opportunity abound in pretty much every city in America if you look for it. And honestly, you don't have to look far. People become marginalized because of many factors, but mostly it's being poor. And when you are poor, you have less access to good schools, jobs, and healthcare. Being poor also means that where you live is probably not as conducive to bettering yourself. When you live in the frame of mind that lack of money controls your thoughts it's very difficult to imagine or even ponder a better life. As we watch the safety net for marginalized people evaporate, we can only expect things to get worse. You don't need to go back to your roots to find the problem. It's everywhere.
41
Conservatives are not honest. Mr. Vance is not "going home" as he trumpeted in the headline. He wants us to believe that as he parks his car in Ohio State University's home, not his.
Why do conservatives tell transparent lies?
I think it must be because the Erickson type of conservative needs to continually convince the low information conservative of how "right" the small-town minds are for staying out of the modern world Erickson needs those votes to keep the repub facade in place. FOX News follows the same indoctrination program.
Why do conservatives tell transparent lies?
I think it must be because the Erickson type of conservative needs to continually convince the low information conservative of how "right" the small-town minds are for staying out of the modern world Erickson needs those votes to keep the repub facade in place. FOX News follows the same indoctrination program.
26
Like you I'm a transplant to my city. The reason I left my "hometown" was because of name calling, addition, religiosity, closed minded bogotry, willfull ignorance, and plain old nastiness.
I owe my "hometown" nothing. I hope it fails.
I owe my "hometown" nothing. I hope it fails.
17
A history sub-set is about people moving from home to another place for a variety of reasons: pushed out by more aggressive people, pushed out by climate change/agriculture decline, pushed out by lack of opportunity to advance orbetter one's family, etc.
The US has seen its share from the great westward migrations in search of land, or gold, in the 18th century to the "Okie" migration of the 1930's, which Will Rogers famously stated raised the IQ of both California and Oklahoma, the "hillbilly" migration to Detroit and the Black migration up Hwy 61 to Chicago.
Frederick Jackson Turner, a historian from Wisconsin, said that by the by the end of the 19th century the American frontier had ceased to exist.
Maybe the problem, and point, now is that there is nowhere else to go and that Americans need to make the best of, if not improve, where, and who, they are...
The US has seen its share from the great westward migrations in search of land, or gold, in the 18th century to the "Okie" migration of the 1930's, which Will Rogers famously stated raised the IQ of both California and Oklahoma, the "hillbilly" migration to Detroit and the Black migration up Hwy 61 to Chicago.
Frederick Jackson Turner, a historian from Wisconsin, said that by the by the end of the 19th century the American frontier had ceased to exist.
Maybe the problem, and point, now is that there is nowhere else to go and that Americans need to make the best of, if not improve, where, and who, they are...
4
I gather that the author's wife will spend the next year as clerk for the Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court. (Kudos!) That being the case, is this really the best time to scratch the itch of a home town return? I wonder why it is not mentioned in the op-ed as a factor... given the sense of human values being invoked.
8
Columbus is by some measures the most successful booming city in the entire midwest. It is about as far as one can get from depressed Appalachia. The public schools are excellent. Mr. Vance is not exactly returning home...
28
While I applaud Vance’s decision to found “an organization to combat Ohio’s opioid epidemic,” I would be interested to know how he plans to go about doing that. He doesn’t discuss any details here. Rehabilitation programs aren’t enough; they’re a band-aid on the problem. The roots of the epidemic are poor education, lack of jobs, poor healthcare and Big Pharma. I doubt that any of these are things that Mr. Vance’s avowed conservative politics wants to tackle. Conservatives don’t care about public education, only give lip service to job restoration and instead want to further enrich the wealthy, want to dismantle a healthcare program that has provided insurance for millions, and Big Pharma, well that’s capitalism at its best – conservatism’s holy grail. Mr. Vance likely wants people driven to opioids to pull themselves up by the bootstraps – the conservative mantra. One of the hallmarks of a conservative is the inability to recognize irony. I wonder if Mr. Vance is going to make himself feel better by moving back home and making a feel-good gesture to address the epidemic, but won’t be willing to support any fundamental policy changes that address the roots of the problem – education, poverty, jobs, healthcare and reining in capitalism-run-amok like Big Pharma.
10
I'm in the midst of some soul-searching on this very subject. Nearly 2 years ago, I moved to a medium-sized Indiana city about 30 minutes from the town I grew up in. My family is all here, for the most part, and I can see them every week. I have a good job, and I try to contribute to my community through our YMCA and my church.
But I've had to ask myself if this is really what I want for the rest of my life. I once had ambitions of living in a larger city, or even overseas, and I don't know if I'm ready to give that up for the comforts of home and family. I'm fortunate in my choice of job in that I can live pretty much anywhere and likely get employment, and I'm well aware of my blessings in that respect.
Mr. Vance and his wife seem to have made their choice, and they should be commended for it. I hope their time living on the West Coast has allowed them to leave it without regrets.
But I've had to ask myself if this is really what I want for the rest of my life. I once had ambitions of living in a larger city, or even overseas, and I don't know if I'm ready to give that up for the comforts of home and family. I'm fortunate in my choice of job in that I can live pretty much anywhere and likely get employment, and I'm well aware of my blessings in that respect.
Mr. Vance and his wife seem to have made their choice, and they should be commended for it. I hope their time living on the West Coast has allowed them to leave it without regrets.
3
I hate going home. The geography is nice, I can drive there from here, and it is not economically stagnant. Maybe middle of the road affluent. Solid community, growing some, rising home prices.
But the restaurants and shops are the same as they were 30 years ago. And the people of my generation who stayed seem to have stagnated as well. Not to mention that what was once moderately conservative has become extremely so, and an evangelical element has moved in. I've grown. I need more. I would not want to raise children in a place with such limited views and little diversity.
So I have self-sorted into a region with more people like me. It's not that I don't welcome different points of view; it is that moving home doesn't give m different points of view. It gives one point of view; the one I don't have.
But the restaurants and shops are the same as they were 30 years ago. And the people of my generation who stayed seem to have stagnated as well. Not to mention that what was once moderately conservative has become extremely so, and an evangelical element has moved in. I've grown. I need more. I would not want to raise children in a place with such limited views and little diversity.
So I have self-sorted into a region with more people like me. It's not that I don't welcome different points of view; it is that moving home doesn't give m different points of view. It gives one point of view; the one I don't have.
30
"I scaled back my commitments to a job I love because of the relocation."
I bet a lot of other people would be willing to move out of expensive cities/towns if they could take their high-paying jobs with them.
I bet a lot of other people would be willing to move out of expensive cities/towns if they could take their high-paying jobs with them.
8
There will be an added benefit of folks like JD moving home: the "excess" progressive votes in urban centers (Hillary won Los Angeles County by 1.6 million votes) will be distributed around the country, making states much more purple, and safe Republican districts less safe.
3
I love this guy for humanizing my father's people. He was Youngstown proud and loud. Committed to blaming himself for his situation and teaching his children to suffer was American. He ate so much shite, I wish I had the contract to haul it. Seen Gran Torino? More like Gran Santini.
An amazing surgeon who restored my brother's bowels left Phoenix for Ohio to start up three hospitals based upon the ACA's promises. I know they deserve the hand up, as they have been held down for so long even Bruce wrote a song about it.
It is my prayer his effort to combat opioid addiction is supported by our nation's healthcare mission. At the base of this whole disaster is unacknowledged pain, and it's time all who suffer are recognized. To share pain is healthy; to hide it and call that strength is disaster. It is OK to need help, especially after your nation's been riding your underappreciated back for forty years like an addict.
An amazing surgeon who restored my brother's bowels left Phoenix for Ohio to start up three hospitals based upon the ACA's promises. I know they deserve the hand up, as they have been held down for so long even Bruce wrote a song about it.
It is my prayer his effort to combat opioid addiction is supported by our nation's healthcare mission. At the base of this whole disaster is unacknowledged pain, and it's time all who suffer are recognized. To share pain is healthy; to hide it and call that strength is disaster. It is OK to need help, especially after your nation's been riding your underappreciated back for forty years like an addict.
5
Nope - not moving back to New Hampshire and SNOW! There are no jobs back there because there are no environmental regulations because they hate government which I love. I love paying taxes for great public schools, clean streets, clean ocean and wonderful programs. I want to live in diversity. And yes, I hate snow and cold.
12
On the topic of the big city and small towns and going home again, I recommend the 2005 movie Junebug.
The class reunion episode of The Andy Griffith Show was also thought provoking.
The class reunion episode of The Andy Griffith Show was also thought provoking.
6
Most of these comments fail to acknowledge the reason Mr. Vance is returning to Ohio: to open an Opiod Treatment Center. His move is not about choosing the best city, but about founding a service that can help the very people he poignantly described in Hillbilly Elegy. More power to you!
6
Having read Hillbilly Elegy, I can't figure out why JD Vance would want to return to Ohio. It raises the question in my mind of why people are so tied to their accidental geography, no matter how third rate it is. Is it our memories?
Are we romanticizing our childhoods?
Are we romanticizing our childhoods?
15
I grew up in small town Ohio, heavily reliant on the steel industry...a town on the Ohio River that has been on the front pages of the NY Times for it's opioid problems...another book "Dreamland" chronicles not only the breakdown in community with the loss of a major employer, but also how a crooked doctor in cahoots with a major drug manufacturer founded an entire system of drug dealing and pill mills. Feeding off those applying for disability, and an entire racket of getting them on drugs and distributing half of their prescriptions.
That said, the town has it's structural problems, and ingrained hierachies of society. Attempts to change that structure are met with gigantic resistance from the "old guard" determined to keep the status quo. Attempts to rebuild, restore the historic districts are blocked by this resistance. The only thing the town seems able to build are cancer centers, and welfare intake centers. I still have family there, but it's depressing to go to what was once a thriving little town, and is now a ghost of its former self.
That said, the town has it's structural problems, and ingrained hierachies of society. Attempts to change that structure are met with gigantic resistance from the "old guard" determined to keep the status quo. Attempts to rebuild, restore the historic districts are blocked by this resistance. The only thing the town seems able to build are cancer centers, and welfare intake centers. I still have family there, but it's depressing to go to what was once a thriving little town, and is now a ghost of its former self.
18
I grew up around DC, then lived in Southern Virginia, Philadelphia, Rural PA, then just outside of Pittsburgh & now Portland OR. We've moved when we had to because we could. We have also been fortunate enough to move when we wanted to not just because we had to. In some of the more rural communities or near cites where jobs dried up I've seen this same thin played out. It is especially true in areas that relied on one OR an old industry. They never had the vision to try to do something else with their economies because the old industry holds on for dear life and the politicians in places like rural Ohio or West VA & Kentucky short changed their constituents by catering to the corporations that paid to get them re-elected. They then blame someone or something else for the problems in their state they've ignored for years - Obamacare or regulation instead of the automation of coal or the decline in demand. If they had spent half the energy trying to solve problems rather than pointing fingers maybe things wouldn't be as bad.... I don't get how people like McConnell get re-elected for doing nothing.
18
I believe that the most important take-away from JD Vance's piece and book is that his heart appears to be in the right place, and after all home really is where the heart is, whether it has been negatively transformed by bad social and economic policy or not. Maybe we all need to think more about where we came from rather than where we are going, long and short term.
2
Good luck, Mr. Vance. Especially with your anti-opiod campaign.
I'm not sure there is much to be done about the flight of jobs to the coasts and overseas, although I wish there were. I live in a western town built on manufacturing jobs and now drifting into profound poverty. (You know your city is hurting when chain grocery stores close).
I'm not sure there is much to be done about the flight of jobs to the coasts and overseas, although I wish there were. I live in a western town built on manufacturing jobs and now drifting into profound poverty. (You know your city is hurting when chain grocery stores close).
5
Thank you, Mr. Vance, for your article, very informative. I also appreciate your efforts to help in any way. Thinking of other people's problems and making any effort to help is what is needed everywhere. Empathy and willingness to help seems to be overshadowed these days by the need to bend others to a different way of thinking. Actually, helpers, such as you, are to be explosively applauded and non-helpers should keep their minds on the positive and live and let live.
1
Columbus, Ohio -- home of the Wexner Center, the Short North, the Columbus Blue Jackets, the Battelle Center, Nationwide -- is the largest city in Ohio and the state capital. With a metro area of over 2 million in population, it's not exactly the homey, small-town, modest village that this opinion piece implies. J.D. Vance is moving to a vibrant city with a thriving economy and diverse opportunities. That's great, but let's not create alternative facts about Ohio.
21
Why Columbus? Vance is from actually just north of Cincinnati, which boasts one of the major airports of the country. I suspect he chose Columbus for political purposes rather than practicality. Personally, having lived in Northeastern Kentucky and Northwestern Ohio, I've not been impressed by his writings. He claims to be writing about "Appalachia" when he actually grew up in an Ohio mill town and his only contacts with "Appalachia" were actually with relatives in southern Kentucky some distant from the actual Appalachia. He does have some good points about brain drain. One of the follies of higher education is that there are no opportunities for the brighter people who go on to even bachelor's degrees unless they're bankers and attorneys (the medical profession is now overrun with immigrants.)
8
I was born and raised and lived in Midwest cities until I took a job as a physician in a small Midwest town and lived and raised a family there and now heading back to the city.
I like living in a small town but one thing that gets overlooked a bit in the health care debate is that rural health is struggling, really struggling. The rural population is older, sicker and poorer than the average suburbanite. Doctors are hard to recruit to rural areas and rural areas depend heavily on foreign doctors there are half the number of doctors per capita in rural areas and in some areas the ratio is much worse. NYT readers struggle to understand why poor rural white voters vote Trump but living here I get it, sort of a tribal appeal and turn back the clock outlook.
BUT there are limits. The GOP Healthcare bill will devastate rural healthcare many of these areas depend heavily upon Medicaid and Medicaid expansion and the exchanges. Urban readers cannot understand the economic and psychological impact of losing your towns only hospital. You lose your biggest employer, you make it extremely difficult to retain let alone attract new businesses or even keep retirees in town. It is a different sort of a death spiral. Hospitals will close, doctors will leave and will not be replaced.
The GOP healthcare plan represents an incredible betrayal to a large part of its base and this one they will not forgive.
I like living in a small town but one thing that gets overlooked a bit in the health care debate is that rural health is struggling, really struggling. The rural population is older, sicker and poorer than the average suburbanite. Doctors are hard to recruit to rural areas and rural areas depend heavily on foreign doctors there are half the number of doctors per capita in rural areas and in some areas the ratio is much worse. NYT readers struggle to understand why poor rural white voters vote Trump but living here I get it, sort of a tribal appeal and turn back the clock outlook.
BUT there are limits. The GOP Healthcare bill will devastate rural healthcare many of these areas depend heavily upon Medicaid and Medicaid expansion and the exchanges. Urban readers cannot understand the economic and psychological impact of losing your towns only hospital. You lose your biggest employer, you make it extremely difficult to retain let alone attract new businesses or even keep retirees in town. It is a different sort of a death spiral. Hospitals will close, doctors will leave and will not be replaced.
The GOP healthcare plan represents an incredible betrayal to a large part of its base and this one they will not forgive.
25
Read on its own merits, "Hillbilly Elegy" is an eye-opener into dysfunctional America. We ALL need to own what we've become, and stop turning a blind eye to what makes us uncomfortable.
My biggest fear is that people won't read it with their blinders off. It's a deeply troubling book, to be read carefully.
Please don't comment on "Hillbilly Elegy" until you've read the book in its entirety. Read it, and you'll be humbled.
My biggest fear is that people won't read it with their blinders off. It's a deeply troubling book, to be read carefully.
Please don't comment on "Hillbilly Elegy" until you've read the book in its entirety. Read it, and you'll be humbled.
6
You mentioned Charles Murray. Didn't you know that's against the rules here at The Times? How dense does one have to be to think that Pizzagate is true? Is the entire media in cahoots with the Clintons to cover it up? (Though don't inquire this of some Sanders diehards.) You should've e-mailed your friend back and said, "Figure it out on your own, buddy."
In Thomas Wolfe's "You Can't Go Home Again," George Webber thinks that "academic life has created its own race of men who are set apart from the rest of humanity by the affinity of their souls." It is really impossible, rather than just difficult, for intelligent people -- people who read and think -- to understand the way the mind of the commoner functions. A good education creates a distinction between people that is as great as, or greater than, that between the uneducated and the great apes.
Probably Ross Douthat is right, though. Cultural liberalism has infected the lower orders; and they can't live like this. The incessant tearing down of hierarchy (why liberals hate hierarchy is unclear even to themselves) is terrible for society. Hierarchy is an inevitable feature of human life. We shouldn't admire distinction based on privilege, but we shouldn't try to move society further toward anomie by telling everyone that one culture is as good as another, one way of life as good as another. Up with paternalism, I say.
Blaming every social ill on corporations, robots, bankers, and elitists is silly.
In Thomas Wolfe's "You Can't Go Home Again," George Webber thinks that "academic life has created its own race of men who are set apart from the rest of humanity by the affinity of their souls." It is really impossible, rather than just difficult, for intelligent people -- people who read and think -- to understand the way the mind of the commoner functions. A good education creates a distinction between people that is as great as, or greater than, that between the uneducated and the great apes.
Probably Ross Douthat is right, though. Cultural liberalism has infected the lower orders; and they can't live like this. The incessant tearing down of hierarchy (why liberals hate hierarchy is unclear even to themselves) is terrible for society. Hierarchy is an inevitable feature of human life. We shouldn't admire distinction based on privilege, but we shouldn't try to move society further toward anomie by telling everyone that one culture is as good as another, one way of life as good as another. Up with paternalism, I say.
Blaming every social ill on corporations, robots, bankers, and elitists is silly.
6
I don't know how moving from the 13th largest city in the US to the 15th largest (difference of 16,000) is that much of a noble sacrifice. That's not news. Columbus doesn't need help; it's thriving and home to many global headquarters and one of the largest universities in the US. As someone who lived until he was 22 in a rural area several miles outside of Middletown, I can tell you that your time and dollars spent in Columbus mean nothing. I'm sure your organization will help, and thanks for that. But I would be careful to frame this as a sacrifice. It's at once very arguable, and also quite insulting.
31
I see a lot of people criticizing Vance for moving to Columbus and not Middletown or Jacksonville KY. The part of the puzzle you're missing is that Vance's wife is of Indian descent. Let me put it this way, she probably wouldn't be welcomed in these places like she would be in Columbus and they both know it. And that explains why Vance is moving "home" to a city he hardly mentions in his book.
18
Having grown up in Silicon Valley when there were still apricot and cherry orchards there, I wonder if Mr. Vance ever met many of the locals who were not working in tech. It's not rural Ohio, but the teachers, police officers, janitors. and others who are not waiting for their stock options to vest have certainly seen things get worse for them.
25
What is missed here is that the concentration of large corporations / big cities does not allow for smaller, successful outcomes in small towns. It is the concentration of wealth that drives "brain drain".
7
I grew up on an Iowa farm and loved it, but have lived in Chicagoland for the past 40 years. Were I to move to Des Moines, Cedar Rapids, or Iowa City from here, I would be moving back to my home state, not "moving home." Mr. Vance should not and cannot claim such rectitude and sacrifice in moving to Columbus, the largest city--and a good one at that--in his home state.
14
I wish Mr. Vance luck in his return to Ohio, even though Columbus isn't a holler in Kentucky, it's a far cry from here.
Having grown up in a blue collar neighborhood in the northeastern Ohio rust belt, with many neighbors from the hollers of West Virginia, Kentucky and western Pennsylvania, I assert the region brought much of it upon themselves by purposefully celebrating ignorance and xenophobia. I said the same nearly 50 years ago when I was in high school and yearned for knowledge represented by the larger world outside.
That's why I moved to San Francisco just as the microprocessor was enabling the personal computer. Suddenly I was surrounded by people who celebrated knowledge and learning. My intelligence was challenged and rewarded, not merely with money, but with opportunities to work directly with the leaders of this new world.
Here I'm surrounded by people from around the country and around the world. We don't look at each other suspiciously to discern subtle differences, the differences are big, bold and obvious.
If I moved back I literally don't know how I could help or educate people. You can't educate people who don't want to learn. They are proudly ignorant and resistant to change because to them change is an admission there is some wrong with them, when to us it's an opportunity to become better.
I invite Mr. Vance to keep us informed. Sadly, I fear it's a fool's errand.
Having grown up in a blue collar neighborhood in the northeastern Ohio rust belt, with many neighbors from the hollers of West Virginia, Kentucky and western Pennsylvania, I assert the region brought much of it upon themselves by purposefully celebrating ignorance and xenophobia. I said the same nearly 50 years ago when I was in high school and yearned for knowledge represented by the larger world outside.
That's why I moved to San Francisco just as the microprocessor was enabling the personal computer. Suddenly I was surrounded by people who celebrated knowledge and learning. My intelligence was challenged and rewarded, not merely with money, but with opportunities to work directly with the leaders of this new world.
Here I'm surrounded by people from around the country and around the world. We don't look at each other suspiciously to discern subtle differences, the differences are big, bold and obvious.
If I moved back I literally don't know how I could help or educate people. You can't educate people who don't want to learn. They are proudly ignorant and resistant to change because to them change is an admission there is some wrong with them, when to us it's an opportunity to become better.
I invite Mr. Vance to keep us informed. Sadly, I fear it's a fool's errand.
40
I could never return "home" again as I haven't the slightest chance of being able to afford to live anywhere in NYC (born and raised in Brooklyn).
As for here in VT, yes, for the most part those who are ambitious and smart leave the small towns and go elsewhere. Many of our rural towns have serious drug problems, poor job prospects, low wages and lots of rural poverty. Chittenden County, home of Burlington and UVM is booming and thriving but it's a totally different scene out on some back dirt road elsewhere in the state where cell service isn't even a possibility.
Some who have jobs that are transplantable and are willing to work for less pay such as teachers, doctors, nurses, etc find a way to stay here(or return). And of course we have wealthy out-of-staters with money to spend from property sales in Boston, NY, NJ, etc. relocate and plop a house on the highest peak they can. For those not in either of those situations though it can be a tough place to live.
Good luck back in Ohio and with your new project.
As for here in VT, yes, for the most part those who are ambitious and smart leave the small towns and go elsewhere. Many of our rural towns have serious drug problems, poor job prospects, low wages and lots of rural poverty. Chittenden County, home of Burlington and UVM is booming and thriving but it's a totally different scene out on some back dirt road elsewhere in the state where cell service isn't even a possibility.
Some who have jobs that are transplantable and are willing to work for less pay such as teachers, doctors, nurses, etc find a way to stay here(or return). And of course we have wealthy out-of-staters with money to spend from property sales in Boston, NY, NJ, etc. relocate and plop a house on the highest peak they can. For those not in either of those situations though it can be a tough place to live.
Good luck back in Ohio and with your new project.
13
Moving people off of farms into big cities has been true since at least the Roman Republic. It is always hard for relatively isolated places to compete economically and socially with diverse cities.
6
On reading this a second time, I'm reminded of GW Bush's Texas "ranch", which was used as a political prop for his run for the presidency. There he could be photographed wearing work clothes and gloves while clearing brush, driving a pickup truck, etc., while keeping the press outside when it was more convenient. As soon as he left office, he sold the ranch and moved to a wealthy, gated community in Dallas. Pure political hypocrisy.
19
The author has had the good fortune to have married, made friends and had productive work in many different environments. My hat's off to him. He is a lucky man.
I would never go back to the Catholic Brooklyn of my youth in the 50s and 60s (problems well documented), but I never again felt at home after I left it.
I would never go back to the Catholic Brooklyn of my youth in the 50s and 60s (problems well documented), but I never again felt at home after I left it.
4
/I’ve heard ugly words uttered about “flyover country” and some of its inhabitants from well-educated, generally well-meaning people./
Oh, please.
I am fortunate to count myself among such people and I have never heard one of them utter that silly expression. I do see it used frequently in print, but by conservatives attempting to bash liberals, and always, as above, in sneer quotes. Which begs the question: why are they sneer-quoting themselves?
Oh, please.
I am fortunate to count myself among such people and I have never heard one of them utter that silly expression. I do see it used frequently in print, but by conservatives attempting to bash liberals, and always, as above, in sneer quotes. Which begs the question: why are they sneer-quoting themselves?
22
Vance always talks about the disdain the coasts have for flyover country. I never once heard him ever address the assault on LGTB rights perpetrated by the Christian Extremists that rule the red states.
26
Members of my family came through Ellis Island and worked in the mills of Youngstown Ohio during the union battles and depression of the early 20th Cent. I grew up in that part of the state, between the Burning River and the Kent State Massacre. I couldn't wait to get out; I left as soon as I could and I've never gone back. It wasn't just the job. I wanted diversity, variety, tolerance, and a little anonymity; a place where the neighbors weren't peeping through the curtains and keeping track of me. I wanted neighbors who had a variety of opinions rather than condemning anyone who didn't agree with them. And, yes, I wanted opportunity that was not available there. I'm not special; anyone in Ohio could have done the same.
The future of Ohio is not my problem; the people there will have to figure out what works for them. I hope they will find a way to become more tolerant and diverse rather than more fearful and guarded. They hurt all of us, not only themselves, by their harmful attitudes and politics; but I do not have to live among them to understand them.
The future of Ohio is not my problem; the people there will have to figure out what works for them. I hope they will find a way to become more tolerant and diverse rather than more fearful and guarded. They hurt all of us, not only themselves, by their harmful attitudes and politics; but I do not have to live among them to understand them.
13
JD Vance makes several good points about the value of investing in a community and the failure of our oh-so brilliant, optimistic technocrats to solve basic real-world problems like affordable housing.
But if his experience is anything like my family's, he won't be welcomed back home with open arms.
My mom, now in her 70's, has never lost her soft Smoky Mountains accent. But a half-century ago, after her first visit home after a semester away at college in the Piedmont, her small-town peers noticed--or imagined--some difference in her voice. "What, do you think you're better than us now, college girl?" they asked. Fiercely unpretentious, she'd never think such a thing. She'd grown up to respect the mountain wisdom and the value of traditional skills, but they couldn't or wouldn't accept that "book-learning" was valuable too.
My father grew up on a small farm in the Piedmont, descended both from slave-owners and Scotch-Irish hardscrabblers. The Marine Corps exposed him to a world beyond the prejudices that swirled in the air he breathed. But when he returned home after his retirement from a career of service, his town was still stuck where it had been, blaming black and brown people for the loss of the textile mill and the brewery jobs, talking of Liberty while expecting a boss or a baron to provide their security and self-esteem.
Mr. Vance knows the folks back home, but they don't recognize him anymore, and they are suspicious of strangers.
But if his experience is anything like my family's, he won't be welcomed back home with open arms.
My mom, now in her 70's, has never lost her soft Smoky Mountains accent. But a half-century ago, after her first visit home after a semester away at college in the Piedmont, her small-town peers noticed--or imagined--some difference in her voice. "What, do you think you're better than us now, college girl?" they asked. Fiercely unpretentious, she'd never think such a thing. She'd grown up to respect the mountain wisdom and the value of traditional skills, but they couldn't or wouldn't accept that "book-learning" was valuable too.
My father grew up on a small farm in the Piedmont, descended both from slave-owners and Scotch-Irish hardscrabblers. The Marine Corps exposed him to a world beyond the prejudices that swirled in the air he breathed. But when he returned home after his retirement from a career of service, his town was still stuck where it had been, blaming black and brown people for the loss of the textile mill and the brewery jobs, talking of Liberty while expecting a boss or a baron to provide their security and self-esteem.
Mr. Vance knows the folks back home, but they don't recognize him anymore, and they are suspicious of strangers.
16
no need for a "brain drain" when there are so many institutions of higher learning. So, I think he means the drain of the highly educated, of which Vance is one ...(the ones labeled "elitists". The answer lies in those who are without good jobs or adequate healthcare, must receive additional schooling. The jobs are there, but require higher training and education.
5
Other than his concerns for her adjustment to the climate, Mr. Vance ignores the fact that his decision ("I decided to move back home.") takes his wife away from her home and the benefits of community and familiarity that home affords her.
7
Joseph Campbell described the "Hero's Journey" thus:
"A hero ventures forth from the world of common day into a region of supernatural wonder: fabulous forces are there encountered and a decisive victory is won: the hero comes back from this mysterious adventure with the power to bestow boons on his fellow man."
Maybe too many have not brought their individual journeys to a proper completion; with a return to the old home town, bearing knowledge or treasure to transform lives.
You might be onto something.
"A hero ventures forth from the world of common day into a region of supernatural wonder: fabulous forces are there encountered and a decisive victory is won: the hero comes back from this mysterious adventure with the power to bestow boons on his fellow man."
Maybe too many have not brought their individual journeys to a proper completion; with a return to the old home town, bearing knowledge or treasure to transform lives.
You might be onto something.
5
I read Mr. Vance's book. It was a compelling read. He should name his foundation for his grandmother who provided the love and discipline that helped JD 'escape' Middletown. What we forget is that even 'hillibillies' have family members who stay the course and rear their children the best they can. That isn't to minimize the sense of hopelessness that pervades those regions of the country where factories have relocated overseas and taken the jobs with them. Some of life's casualties can be found in rich enclaves. They are called spoiled rich kids. Bailed out of every scrape and never able to navigate in the real world.
2
I believe there are many of us "coastal elites" who would like to relocate and enjoy some of the truly wonderful aspects of other parts of the country in the name of "civic responsibility." Begs the question: what does a citizen owe its country? Alas, not all of us have the financial wherewithal..
2
Maybe the people who leave become the "best and the brightest" BECAUSE they leave. In a family of five children, only my sister and I left Iowa for Phoenix in the late 1970s. My other three siblings stayed in the same Iowa town that offered limited prospects for professional growth and success. As a result, my sister and I have successful careers while the others are stuck in dead-end jobs and continue to struggle to make ends meet. I moved back to Iowa in the early 1990s and I'm glad I did. But I wonder if I would be in my siblings shoes if I had never left.
13
I left my red state roots as soon as possible. And on the few occasions I return to visit family, I am reminded why I left in the first place. Best decision I ever made.
19
I really like this article. i moved back to my home state after I went to MIT in Boston. Every single one of my friends now lives in a big city, except me. I think its sad. They look down in us and say we are uneducated racist rubes, and we look down on them for living in concrete cages where nature is only the background on a smartphone. Its sad really.
I believe more smart, liberal, motivated people need to move to rural areas. They need just as much revitalization as the cities.
I believe more smart, liberal, motivated people need to move to rural areas. They need just as much revitalization as the cities.
10
Thank you for this; it touched me. I've had a similar experience and never know how to feel about the brain drain I'm contributing to. I was a bright and self-motivated kid who felt alien from the rural Texas culture at large, so I set off for the Ivy League the second the opportunity presented itself. Of course I don't regret the decision and am grateful everyday for the stroke of luck that landed me here.
I was surprised that I had the same culture shock a lot of international students do. I don't know anybody here who lived a life like the lives of everybody I knew for the first 18 years of my life. It feels like something of a betrayal to gleefully choose this life over the life most of my old high school peers are living. I don't feel guilty about this betrayal though. After all, Texas did me measurable harm and it might not have been the best place to grow up as a young gay kid and I no longer find myself feeling suffocated by the culture surrounding me now that I got out. I struggle to know how much I can criticize the culture of my hometown and how much I should respect that I am an outsider to it now.
I was shaken to see people I know and love decrying schools like mine for being liberal brainwashing centers. I don't know how to reconcile that with the support and pride expressed by these same people just a few years ago when I got acceptance letters to those centers. I don't know how to reconcile with the entire cultural transplant experience I guess.
I was surprised that I had the same culture shock a lot of international students do. I don't know anybody here who lived a life like the lives of everybody I knew for the first 18 years of my life. It feels like something of a betrayal to gleefully choose this life over the life most of my old high school peers are living. I don't feel guilty about this betrayal though. After all, Texas did me measurable harm and it might not have been the best place to grow up as a young gay kid and I no longer find myself feeling suffocated by the culture surrounding me now that I got out. I struggle to know how much I can criticize the culture of my hometown and how much I should respect that I am an outsider to it now.
I was shaken to see people I know and love decrying schools like mine for being liberal brainwashing centers. I don't know how to reconcile that with the support and pride expressed by these same people just a few years ago when I got acceptance letters to those centers. I don't know how to reconcile with the entire cultural transplant experience I guess.
11
Thank you for this article. I never considered a "brain drain" in the context of rural to city. It explains a lot.
I would add that living in large city also underscores what might be described as a liberal bias.
In a large city, you confront social problems every day. It is real to you. Whne you see other human beings who are destitute, mentally ill, suffering from substance abuse etc. it puts a human face on the very real problems that your community has. You can't just dismiss it as "those people." When you live with it day in and day out, you want to see these people that are suffering in a real way get help. In addition, there is a psychological cost to the community members who are not themselves suffering. We don't like to see it. It reminds of us of our own vulnerability.
I think this exposure, at least in part, explains the rural-urban divide on the issue of our willingness to accept higher taxes to support social programs.
But now rural communities themselves are being ravaged by what were formerly problems associated with cities - drug addiction. As horrific as the opioid epidemic is, it will be interesting to see if this changes perspectives. I doubt it but it may.
I would add that living in large city also underscores what might be described as a liberal bias.
In a large city, you confront social problems every day. It is real to you. Whne you see other human beings who are destitute, mentally ill, suffering from substance abuse etc. it puts a human face on the very real problems that your community has. You can't just dismiss it as "those people." When you live with it day in and day out, you want to see these people that are suffering in a real way get help. In addition, there is a psychological cost to the community members who are not themselves suffering. We don't like to see it. It reminds of us of our own vulnerability.
I think this exposure, at least in part, explains the rural-urban divide on the issue of our willingness to accept higher taxes to support social programs.
But now rural communities themselves are being ravaged by what were formerly problems associated with cities - drug addiction. As horrific as the opioid epidemic is, it will be interesting to see if this changes perspectives. I doubt it but it may.
3
"It’s easy to dismiss these questions as the ramblings of “fake news” consumers. But the more difficult truth is that people naturally trust the people they know — their friend sharing a story on Facebook — more than strangers who work for faraway institutions."
I am old enough to remember a time when this was not true at all. We would watch Walter Cronkite, "the most trusted man in America" on the CBS Evening News every night and trust him to tell us what was true and real. This was when the news was considered to be a public service not a revenue-generating part of television networks and before there was an industry of talk radio and cable "news" channels that told people not to believe anything that didn't confirm their beliefs and prejudices. This "faraway institution" had something sorely lacking now - credibility well beyond what your neighbor says.
These questions ARE the "ramblings of “fake news” consumers," it's just that now they have a wide selection of supposedly authoritative sources lending credence to, if not outright advocacy of, wild conspiracy theories. And now, they've even got a President who does the same thing.
Finally, Mr. Vance, please spare us the false equivalence of "This problem runs in both directions." Disparaging comments about "flyover country" are a far cry from an armed man going to the pizza place accused of housing the Clinton pedophilia ring to perform his own private investigation. Ridiculous conspiracy theories deserve ridicule.
I am old enough to remember a time when this was not true at all. We would watch Walter Cronkite, "the most trusted man in America" on the CBS Evening News every night and trust him to tell us what was true and real. This was when the news was considered to be a public service not a revenue-generating part of television networks and before there was an industry of talk radio and cable "news" channels that told people not to believe anything that didn't confirm their beliefs and prejudices. This "faraway institution" had something sorely lacking now - credibility well beyond what your neighbor says.
These questions ARE the "ramblings of “fake news” consumers," it's just that now they have a wide selection of supposedly authoritative sources lending credence to, if not outright advocacy of, wild conspiracy theories. And now, they've even got a President who does the same thing.
Finally, Mr. Vance, please spare us the false equivalence of "This problem runs in both directions." Disparaging comments about "flyover country" are a far cry from an armed man going to the pizza place accused of housing the Clinton pedophilia ring to perform his own private investigation. Ridiculous conspiracy theories deserve ridicule.
13
"the conservative scholar Charles Murray"
Vance pretends he isn't an alt-right white nationalist while continuing to drop obvious hints like this, but so far he has been phenomenally successful at peddling his poisoned wares to tolerant moderates and progressives.
Perhaps J.D. Vance is moving home to get away from all of us irritating minorities in the big cities.
Vance pretends he isn't an alt-right white nationalist while continuing to drop obvious hints like this, but so far he has been phenomenally successful at peddling his poisoned wares to tolerant moderates and progressives.
Perhaps J.D. Vance is moving home to get away from all of us irritating minorities in the big cities.
7
You know he's married to a woman of color, right?
6
I've lived and worked in Silicon Valley for 40 years. Social relationships here seem to be based on "what have you done for me in the last 10 minutes". No chit-chat, no foreplay, wham. Straight to the point. I'm from New England, by way of NYC now in California, so I'm not a touchy-feelie type to begin with.
It's almost a mini-vacation to go to the local paint store, or TARGET store here; where people are a bit slower and more relaxed; who might even smile at a stranger without calculated intent.
In the US we trade our humanity for efficiency. Business productivity at the cost of enjoyment of life. I'm not going to follow Mr Vance. I'd be bored, but I do go backpacking a lot, and love the peek at small town life you get going and coming from the trailhead.
There is are these enforced dichotomies in America. Personal time vs money. Personal space vs profitability. Work vs life. Location, location, location. We shouldn't have to choose. The Europeans do a much better job at reconciling the different aspects and potential of a human life.
It's almost a mini-vacation to go to the local paint store, or TARGET store here; where people are a bit slower and more relaxed; who might even smile at a stranger without calculated intent.
In the US we trade our humanity for efficiency. Business productivity at the cost of enjoyment of life. I'm not going to follow Mr Vance. I'd be bored, but I do go backpacking a lot, and love the peek at small town life you get going and coming from the trailhead.
There is are these enforced dichotomies in America. Personal time vs money. Personal space vs profitability. Work vs life. Location, location, location. We shouldn't have to choose. The Europeans do a much better job at reconciling the different aspects and potential of a human life.
5
My late husbands jobs foreced us to move 7 times during the course of our 33 year marriage. Two of those moves were 'back home' where we were able to enjoy the proximity of grandparents, cousins, brothers and sisters...But that was only 5 years out of 33. Health Insurance also played a part in these migrations. At 50, my husband was diagnosed with an aggressive cancer that, one month before a surgery to debulk a tumor, the very expensive drug Gleevec was approved for use on this cancer. Then he lost a University job with the insurance that would pay all but the $25.00 copay. If we had lost insurance the cost of the drug would have been around $50,000.00 a year. So we were set adrift and had to search for another University job with good insurance benefits, and leave the support of family. The wonder drug gave him 10 more years of life, but left me and our adult disabled child 1500 miles from 'home' and the support of family. I don't know that I have another move in me.
6
This article resonates very strongly with me. I live in a culturally vibrant, diverse, well-educated, attractive community 180 km from my depressed and depressing hometown. That 180 physical kilometers might as well be an entire continent from a cultural perspective. I certainly understand the author's logic in "returning home," and I greatly respect his fortitude in doing so. I don't think that I would ever be prepared to make the enormous personal sacrifice associated with such an act of altruism.
4
Here's the thing; part of the reason super-zips are popular with the upward and socially mobile is that they are more liberal places; people with choices want well-funded great public schools. They want cutting edge medical care associated with medical schools and universities. They want diversity, health care, freedom of choice and conscience with respect to sexuality and LGBT rights. Of course many are drawn to their birth communities, but it is hard to make your life in a place that may be a less good fit culturally, never mind economically impoverished. Brain drain wouldn't be so severe if blue states weren't attractive in lots of ways. Red states might consider emulating some policies of blue states (like strong public education and health care investment) while promoting their own distinctive virtues (and there are lots).
8
Mr. Vance may learn that he can't go home again. Growing in small town Midwest I learned that the reverse snobbery of small towns is just as bad as snobbery. It attempts to restrict growth and creativity in favor of rigid adherence to a defined way of thinking and behaving. It's worse than regular snobbery because it comes from people who are your family, friends and neighbors from whom you would expect to receive respect and friendliness. Mr. Vance's choices took him a long way from his home town and that reverse snobbery may limit his ability to feel at home and his ability to reach those he wants to help.
4
Columbus is hardly rural; it has the Ohio State University and is a great city. Now if he'd moved back to where his family came from I'd be impressed. Columbus, not so much.
5
Mr. Vance has our attention because his memoir, "Hillbilly Elegy", read so authentically. Now, I suspect, Mr. Vance is cashing in some chips, specifically, he expects to use his recent notoriety to become a political figure in his native state. This essay of his, therefore, seems to me disingenuous, which is a shame for Mr. Vance.
It's impossible for me to avoid my conclusion: Yale law, au courant bio, Marine service and, last, but not least, no distinguishing professional accomplishment. Of course, why wait for the last item to (potentially never) arrive when you have so strong a personal public narrative? Well, what's wrong with a career in public service for Mr. Vance? Two things: Mithril and, here it comes again, no distinguishing professional accomplishment. The former is a slim reed and we should be concerned about its influence on Mr. Vance, while the latter will weaken Mr. Vance's independence. Anyway, I think they're connected: "Hey, let's run a smart 'hillbilly' -- a guy we can talk to, after all -- to contain class impulses in his corner of American democracy."
Now that some of us watch our peers who have had unprecedented access to intellectual and technological heritage approach governing, we want more than the clothing of a career; to paraphrase the sage old wizard: 'wit may want wisdom.' In sum, why shouldn't Mr. Vance should wait a little and pretend a little less?
It's impossible for me to avoid my conclusion: Yale law, au courant bio, Marine service and, last, but not least, no distinguishing professional accomplishment. Of course, why wait for the last item to (potentially never) arrive when you have so strong a personal public narrative? Well, what's wrong with a career in public service for Mr. Vance? Two things: Mithril and, here it comes again, no distinguishing professional accomplishment. The former is a slim reed and we should be concerned about its influence on Mr. Vance, while the latter will weaken Mr. Vance's independence. Anyway, I think they're connected: "Hey, let's run a smart 'hillbilly' -- a guy we can talk to, after all -- to contain class impulses in his corner of American democracy."
Now that some of us watch our peers who have had unprecedented access to intellectual and technological heritage approach governing, we want more than the clothing of a career; to paraphrase the sage old wizard: 'wit may want wisdom.' In sum, why shouldn't Mr. Vance should wait a little and pretend a little less?
3
Dear J.D.- It appears to me that you are laying the ground for a run for political office. What better way to do that then by building your base in your home state? You have to ask yourself if this is not yet another type of manipulation on your part of the "fly-over" people as you like to call them? Your political philosophy appears to be the same "by your own bootstraps" mentality coming out of our current political nightmare. In your book "Hillbilly Elegy" you dismiss real structural and systemic forces that keep people in poverty by anecdotal evidence rather than by serious research and blame the very people you purpose to help in Ohio for their suffering. Your anecdotal story of a friend asking you to determine for her/him the validity of a fake news story about the Clintons is less about trusting friends over "faraway institutions" and more about her/his lack of education. Illiterate people often believe that simply by virtue of a story making it to print that gives it a type of validity outside of what it actually says. You expect poor people to posses a type of critical thinking that can only be gained by education. Perhaps you are confusing critical thinking skills with common sense? I would love to have a longer conversation with you about your book. We have similar origins but different trajectories as I am now a New York City Liberal. In the spirit of a true bi-partisan collaboration, let's compare notes and see if we can come up with some real answers.
30
You and Ami are my heroes. Good luck and thank you.
1
Nope. When I get enough money together, I'll take my business and my two college degrees and get away from Oklahoma and never come back. There is more to life than a job. There is culture. Beautiful scenery. Intelligent conversation. If I mention a book, let's say 1984, then I have to explain to people what that means. If I tell a joke, then I have to explain it. If I drive to Tulsa to see a Broadway play, I have to explain why I would want to do something like that. Heck, I've had people complain that I grow flowers in my garden instead of vegetables, like I'm wasting time and money by having something beautiful in my life.
The best way to fit in is to pretend to be ignorant and uneducated. I refuse to do that any longer. I just want out.
The best way to fit in is to pretend to be ignorant and uneducated. I refuse to do that any longer. I just want out.
23
Most states have university towns that benefit from the brain drain and are small versions of the economic dynamism found in thriving big cities. They suck talent out of surrounding small towns and meld it with talent from all parts of the country and the world. Columbus is (or perhaps contains) a university town, and replicates the nation's geographical sorting within Ohio. Columbus may envy San Jose, but at the same time it is a San Jose for Ohio.
We rely on the "social planning" of the market to make the dynamic areas so expensive that pieces of dynamism break off and go looking for locations that are more economically feasible. To the extent that we believe in social planning, governments try to accentuate these trends and attract some of the pieces to their regions, states, and cities. In today's age of information and the internet, it should be easier than before to spread the dynamism. But in flyover country, government is not trusted and business is relied on to bring dynamism even though business is also not trusted.
We rely on the "social planning" of the market to make the dynamic areas so expensive that pieces of dynamism break off and go looking for locations that are more economically feasible. To the extent that we believe in social planning, governments try to accentuate these trends and attract some of the pieces to their regions, states, and cities. In today's age of information and the internet, it should be easier than before to spread the dynamism. But in flyover country, government is not trusted and business is relied on to bring dynamism even though business is also not trusted.
2
I was born in Akron, Ohio in 1950, but thankfully grew up in Santa Cruz, California. Everyday I offer a thanks to the gods for the latter fact, if only for the opportunity to surf as teen and to experience the uniqueness of San Francisco circa 1967-1969. Based on the outcome of the recent election, I suspect many in my birth-state are God-fearing, conservative Americans who would likely condemn the progressive values I've developed. I'm also certain that there are many in Ohio who share those values, such as my cousin who went to Washington by bus to march against against Trump. Nevertheless, I seriously doubt whether those of us who fled or whose parents fled their birth-states long ago for more politically progressive pastures or simply to pursue a potential pie-in-the-sky opportunity in states like California would ever fit into or be accepted by these troubled old communities.
Mr. Vance's reported conservative political views, however, and his continued connection with his home state after leaving it, make him much more amenable to a good, acceptable fit. It makes sense for people like him to return to their home state to use his skills and knowledge to help make things better there. Unfortunately, this nation has become so polarized between the haves and have-nots; whites and non-whites; the Christians and non-Christians; Republicans and Democrats; and Red states and Blue states, to paraphrase Thomas Wolfe, many of us can't go home again.
Mr. Vance's reported conservative political views, however, and his continued connection with his home state after leaving it, make him much more amenable to a good, acceptable fit. It makes sense for people like him to return to their home state to use his skills and knowledge to help make things better there. Unfortunately, this nation has become so polarized between the haves and have-nots; whites and non-whites; the Christians and non-Christians; Republicans and Democrats; and Red states and Blue states, to paraphrase Thomas Wolfe, many of us can't go home again.
95
My wife and I live 45 minutes northwest of downtown Columbus. We're three miles from the Honda manufacturing plant. Leading up to last November's election I got tired of counting the number of Trump/Pence yard signs I saw in the very rural nine mile state route stretch between my home and Marysville. I have a client near Cleveland and driving the state routes up there I also got tired counting those same signs. Unless Mr. Vance and his wife plant themselves right into the hate-filled outer rural suburbs, I cannot imagine him thinking he has moved home.
5
Uh, there is an actual scientific reason why there are no jobs in rural places. It's called thermodynamics. If something costs more in energy to create in one place than in another, then naturally that thing will tend to appear more in the place it's easier for it (requires less energy) than in the place that is more difficult (requires more energy).
True free markets simply mimic and reflect this. The value in money is simply our bet that we will be able to produce more things in the future than we can produce in the present. That production is ENTIRELY based on energy. That is to say: things that require more energy relative to other things that do the same thing but require less energy COST MORE.
It costs more to make stuff in rural America than in other places. Not because people are stupid there (though many are), and not because of government manipulation (indeed my urban tax dollars subsidize rural lifestyles), but because they are far away from other people.
Rural people demanding that things stay the way they are (or, god forbid, "get better") for them really means that they want urban people to continue--and increase--our already ENORMOUS subsidies of the wasteful and inefficient lifestyle they have chosen. Sorry, no. Pay for what you get. That's the American way.
And double no when you shake your fist at me with one hand while your other hand grabs dollars out of my pocket. Just grow up and get a job in the city.
True free markets simply mimic and reflect this. The value in money is simply our bet that we will be able to produce more things in the future than we can produce in the present. That production is ENTIRELY based on energy. That is to say: things that require more energy relative to other things that do the same thing but require less energy COST MORE.
It costs more to make stuff in rural America than in other places. Not because people are stupid there (though many are), and not because of government manipulation (indeed my urban tax dollars subsidize rural lifestyles), but because they are far away from other people.
Rural people demanding that things stay the way they are (or, god forbid, "get better") for them really means that they want urban people to continue--and increase--our already ENORMOUS subsidies of the wasteful and inefficient lifestyle they have chosen. Sorry, no. Pay for what you get. That's the American way.
And double no when you shake your fist at me with one hand while your other hand grabs dollars out of my pocket. Just grow up and get a job in the city.
7
Guess what? Many of the rest of us are sick of being force-fed the fiction that "the Heartland" has some sort of monopoly on common sense and moral purity, or that it is somehow more of a "real America" than where we've chosen to live and work.
And we're also sick of being stereotyped as out-of-touch, shallow, lazy, and pretentious.
(For the record, I've never used the expression "flyover country" in my entire life, and never would: despite my supposedly corrupt coastal values, I was raised to believe in one America, and that we're all in this together.)
If Mr. Vance, with his Yale law degree, book royalties, and speaking tours thinks that Appalachian Ohioans outside his new home of Columbus are going to take him back into the fold as one of their own, he's in for a rude awakening. From where I sit, it looks like most of the divisiveness in this country is coming right from the middle.
And we're also sick of being stereotyped as out-of-touch, shallow, lazy, and pretentious.
(For the record, I've never used the expression "flyover country" in my entire life, and never would: despite my supposedly corrupt coastal values, I was raised to believe in one America, and that we're all in this together.)
If Mr. Vance, with his Yale law degree, book royalties, and speaking tours thinks that Appalachian Ohioans outside his new home of Columbus are going to take him back into the fold as one of their own, he's in for a rude awakening. From where I sit, it looks like most of the divisiveness in this country is coming right from the middle.
25
In the Washington, DC, Metro (subway) system, there are sometimes billboards advertising Columbus, Ohio, as a great place to live. It's interesting that Columbus is so actively and opportunistically recruiting in a city where many are fed up with the second worst traffic in the U.S., a high cost of living, and vagaries of changing administrations.
5
This is all fine and well if you are a white, educated heterosexual male or female as both JD and Ami appear to be based on their social media footprints. The choice is less obvious for those of us who are immigrants, or racial, social, religious, or gender/sexual orientation minorities in this country. Moving to Ohio or Alabama, or rural PA means my biracial daughter will likely be the only one of her kind in school. Such a move to make her a target to bullying and other social isolation. In our East Coast community, my daughter is one of over a half dozen visibly multiracial kids in her class. Me, with my very obviously ethnic/Asian name, will also stand out like a sore thumb. I've taken many a roadtrips across this country and travel frequently to "factory" towns to train workers and conduct corporate audits. The obvious stares at the "outsider" even if there is no underlying malice, is disconcerting to say the least. Part of the reason some people leave their home towns is because they are seeking to not be the "odd man out" anymore. Even if you are born in a community, it doesn't mean you always fit in. There is something wonderful about feeling like you belong somewhere. As I say to some of my white, native born American friends - there is tremendous privilege in moving to a place like Kansas City and feeling like you'll be safe and accepted in that community. That's not a privilege every American shares.
16
"people naturally trust the people they know — their friend sharing a story on Facebook — more than strangers who work for faraway institutions"
It's not as simple as that. "People" pick skilled surgeons when they need heart surgery, and don't have their friends do it. In that context they understand what an expert is and why you should rely on one. For political information and news of the rest of the world, however, they don't see the need for experts and prefer to rely on what was once called gossip. (Often that gossip is shaped for them by people with a lot of money.) That gossip is potentiated by the ability of like-minded people to coalesce on the Internet. What was once a parochial small town now turns into a parochial digital city without any of the benefits or the learning experience of living in an actual big city.
It's not as simple as that. "People" pick skilled surgeons when they need heart surgery, and don't have their friends do it. In that context they understand what an expert is and why you should rely on one. For political information and news of the rest of the world, however, they don't see the need for experts and prefer to rely on what was once called gossip. (Often that gossip is shaped for them by people with a lot of money.) That gossip is potentiated by the ability of like-minded people to coalesce on the Internet. What was once a parochial small town now turns into a parochial digital city without any of the benefits or the learning experience of living in an actual big city.
7
Over 40 years ago, I made the decision to leave a Harvard faculty position and return to my hometown in the midwest. It was the right thing to do. There is still much work to be done in small and mid-sized cities, especially in what we call "middle America". But, dedication to the "heartland" is a virtue, part of the "DNA" of what makes folks from Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota, et al, the real foundation of this great country.
3
Very thoughtful & honest. But the observation that the most productive, ambitious and talented folks migrate to big cities raises the worry: why should they be derided as a faulty 'elite?'
Modernity is ruthless. Protections for rural small town economies would be ideal-- but seem to require a benevolent public/private policy - maybe state/federal incentives too.
What can be located in Appalachia to replace toxic industries, failed manufacturing ?
Would a natl health insurance relieve business of crushing overhead (paying employee benefits) and foster job creation by scrappy start ups ?
Would craft replace assembly lines--quality over mass production in some regions ?
Vance is putting his money where his mouth is-- moving back. Is he ready to start a business ?
Modernity is ruthless. Protections for rural small town economies would be ideal-- but seem to require a benevolent public/private policy - maybe state/federal incentives too.
What can be located in Appalachia to replace toxic industries, failed manufacturing ?
Would a natl health insurance relieve business of crushing overhead (paying employee benefits) and foster job creation by scrappy start ups ?
Would craft replace assembly lines--quality over mass production in some regions ?
Vance is putting his money where his mouth is-- moving back. Is he ready to start a business ?
3
What do New Bedford, MA, and Bangor, ME have in common? Small cities and not exactly thriving, except perhaps in the opioid trade. What else links them? They were each once upon a nostalgic time the wealthiest cities in the country; bustling, productive, economically vibrant communities. What happened? Well, times changed and their resource-based economies lost their importance and ability to provide widespread rewarding employment. Check out basic market-based economic theory to find the answer to the demise of the communities. I believe you'll uncover some silly and seemingly antiquated theoretical construct like "mobility of labor". Apparently many people find it odd that those seeking to improve their and their children's lots in life would leave their home towns and relocate to where the jobs are, leaving behind those "unfortunates" who choose not to do so...
6
I'm from NYC. I cannot afford to move back there. My family began their roots sometime during the 1800s in Brooklyn. NYC is my root. I met my husband in Nashville and moved here because cost of living was more reasonable and he is a musician and music producer so his world is here. Now that Nashville is the IT city of the moment, rents have skyrocketed to the prices of NYC! 3 bed 2 bath at $6,600? But wages have not risen, job quality is not available to the lower - middle wage earner. There are teems of wealthy millennials and the brightest and best moving here, however poverty has skyrocketed And so has homelessness. State of TN refuses to raise the Fed minimum wage or abolish $2.13 sub minimum wage. Average wages here are about $10 a $12 per hour for even many college educated jobs. Nashville is focusing on catering to wealthy residents and tourists. There are restrictions on rent control, it is not permitted under TN state laws. Affordable housing is left to the discretion of the builder and if they want bonuses like density they must have a teeny percentage of affordable housing but mostly it is for those making 80 - 120% of average median income. Our Mayor is now in the cast of the show Nashville as the Mayor of Nashville. Nashville is the new Hollywood with NYC and San Fran prices.
5
J.D. Vance,
There are a lot of snide comments from the NYT readers which is sad for them as they miss the point of finding your passion.
I sincerely appreciate the work you are doing. I grew up in a lumber/pulp and paper/pea processing/bullet factory town Lewiston, Idaho. We had so much fun working hard at the mill and pea processing plant and the service station and fishing, floating and partying by the Snake and Clearwater Rivers. We had the beginnings of rock and roll and dances every Friday and Saturday night. The first dance I can remember was a tennis court dance with Jerry Lee Lewis, Chuck Berry, and Little Richard songs.
On the downside we had pollution so bad it turned building black and acid rain fell from the skies. We had one black family and a small but important Chinese Community.
The jobs are still there but the region is now dominated by big box stores. In the 50s and 60s the town was vital and most businesses were small an locally owned. Now they are outlets of global and national corporations. You can hear the money whoosing away.
I am heartened as the voters just passed a bond to build a new High School. The old high school site will house the expansion of Lewis-Clark College. So there is hope in the future for Lewiston. But it is not a fun as it was.
When I go home I walk the ruins of Main Street and drive the big boxes on the hill.
There are a lot of snide comments from the NYT readers which is sad for them as they miss the point of finding your passion.
I sincerely appreciate the work you are doing. I grew up in a lumber/pulp and paper/pea processing/bullet factory town Lewiston, Idaho. We had so much fun working hard at the mill and pea processing plant and the service station and fishing, floating and partying by the Snake and Clearwater Rivers. We had the beginnings of rock and roll and dances every Friday and Saturday night. The first dance I can remember was a tennis court dance with Jerry Lee Lewis, Chuck Berry, and Little Richard songs.
On the downside we had pollution so bad it turned building black and acid rain fell from the skies. We had one black family and a small but important Chinese Community.
The jobs are still there but the region is now dominated by big box stores. In the 50s and 60s the town was vital and most businesses were small an locally owned. Now they are outlets of global and national corporations. You can hear the money whoosing away.
I am heartened as the voters just passed a bond to build a new High School. The old high school site will house the expansion of Lewis-Clark College. So there is hope in the future for Lewiston. But it is not a fun as it was.
When I go home I walk the ruins of Main Street and drive the big boxes on the hill.
7
I hope one day technology and opportunity provides small towns disrupted by recession and population shifts the chance to shine again.
The suburbs shouldn't be ignored, nor should rural America. Frankly, urbanization is rampant and while measures are being taken to combat this, they aren't developing fast enough.
Being a young 30-something in New York City, I simply long for a quieter living on Long Island where I grew up, just 30 miles east. To work in a local office (possible) and engrain myself into a smaller community I feel fosters more meaningful relationships and a sense of being then justifying my existence in the city by giving up a seat on the subway.
My 4th grade teacher taught me "less is more" Sometimes, that's all you need.
The suburbs shouldn't be ignored, nor should rural America. Frankly, urbanization is rampant and while measures are being taken to combat this, they aren't developing fast enough.
Being a young 30-something in New York City, I simply long for a quieter living on Long Island where I grew up, just 30 miles east. To work in a local office (possible) and engrain myself into a smaller community I feel fosters more meaningful relationships and a sense of being then justifying my existence in the city by giving up a seat on the subway.
My 4th grade teacher taught me "less is more" Sometimes, that's all you need.
3
After 25 years living and working in a number of states, my husband and I moved back to our hometown. The addage "You can never go home", is true in the sense I now deeply feel the sorrow, regret, and disappoints of friends and family with whom I have reconnected; small towns are full of despair because of lack of services, jobs, and hope.
I have also realized my stay in other cities was actually a long-stay tourist attitude. I was engaged but not emotionally connected to the area and its problems (and successes). This change in perspective has given me the energy to "fight the good fight" to improve this dusty little town's future because I believe it is my future, too.
I have also realized my stay in other cities was actually a long-stay tourist attitude. I was engaged but not emotionally connected to the area and its problems (and successes). This change in perspective has given me the energy to "fight the good fight" to improve this dusty little town's future because I believe it is my future, too.
5
This incessant need that compells too many people to "belong" stems from their unwillingness to accept our innate incapacity to truly connect with anyone outside ourselves -- ever.
"We live together, we act on, and react to, one another; but always and in all circumstances we are by ourselves.... We can pool information about experiences, but never the experiences themselves. Sensations, feelings, insights, fancies - all these are private and, except through symbols and at second hand, incommunicable. From family to nation, every human group is a society of island universes." -- Aldous Huxley, "Doors of Perception"
I can't crawl behind your eyes and see what you see. It's a struggle to even accurately imagine what you think. I'm content to know that we're all "pink-on-the-inside" mutts and enjoy those rare moments of supposed connection as they arise. In the meantime, I willingly accept that our solitude binds us (a collective of unique "others") and makes us "snowflakes" all.
"We live together, we act on, and react to, one another; but always and in all circumstances we are by ourselves.... We can pool information about experiences, but never the experiences themselves. Sensations, feelings, insights, fancies - all these are private and, except through symbols and at second hand, incommunicable. From family to nation, every human group is a society of island universes." -- Aldous Huxley, "Doors of Perception"
I can't crawl behind your eyes and see what you see. It's a struggle to even accurately imagine what you think. I'm content to know that we're all "pink-on-the-inside" mutts and enjoy those rare moments of supposed connection as they arise. In the meantime, I willingly accept that our solitude binds us (a collective of unique "others") and makes us "snowflakes" all.
2
While I (somewhat) admire Mr. Vance for making an effort to bridge the communication chasm that seems to be widening in our country, I am oh so tired of the "both sides do it" false equivalency he and so many conservatives voice. In this case, an imagined Clinton pedophilia ring with, "I’ve heard ugly words uttered about “flyover country” and some of its inhabitants from well-educated, generally well-meaning people." Huh? There is no left-wing comparison to the paranoid right-wing lie machine that has produced the Trump disaster. The anger coming from the left is more a reaction to seeing the world destroyed by the minority party through greed, more than anything. A party that long ago showed it "loves America" but seems to hate Americans.
18
Imagine if education in more rural areas becomes even worse due to the DeVos/Trump agenda. Would the writer return home to develop a new business if he could not hire locals as employees because they lack basic qualifications? I moved from a highly educated metro area (Boston) to a poorly educated area (Tucson). It's extraordinary how expectations drop once you realize the locals just don't have the chops to do better work.
10
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." Mark Twain
As a traveler for 60 years and living in 9 countries, what charitable view I have gained about mankind reinforces my own compassion but those who stayed at home cannot relate to my experiences. The critical comments to this article reflect the responses of those who cannot go home again.
As a traveler for 60 years and living in 9 countries, what charitable view I have gained about mankind reinforces my own compassion but those who stayed at home cannot relate to my experiences. The critical comments to this article reflect the responses of those who cannot go home again.
21
I too lived for many years in Silicon Valley and the people I met there were educated, driven and hard working. There were people from around the world who had managed to study hard and work their way out of hopeless towns and villages from India, to China, to Ukraine to the rust belt. As a woman, let me add that many of us escaped patriarchal sink holes where our lives, our intelligence and equality were not respected. I would never return to my red state where non-whites are mistreated, non-fundamentalist Christians shunned, women are denied reproductive choices and immigrants are vilified. I am sure being less challenged by the best and brightest from around the world appeals to many white males right now and so returning home to where you are at the top of he pecking order is certainly alluring.
190
Quite a snarky comment. Instead of celebrating a family who is trying to make a difference, why not mock him, right?
5
I've always been content to live in my small Georgia town and contribute towards making it better. We don't always succeed but we have good community spirit and have begun to see better days ahead from the film industry and relocations southward from companies wanting growth opportunities. Still, living in a small town, especially here in the south, can and often does lead to "groupthink" and it is easy to adapt a one-sided view of things, just as Mr. Vance suggested. It's one of the reasons I read the Times, because I need constant reminding of the diversity of our country and to understand why people feel the way they do on both sides of a matter. Doing this and reading other legitimate news sources keeps me grounded, informed and definitely more open minded. I'm glad that I resisted being part of "brain drain" and invested my talents and time into my community but the community doesn't form my critical thinking nor cloud my ability to be objective. Best of luck with your move home.
77
Although I wish Mr. Vance the best on his move back to Ohio, my comment has less to with his op-ed but more to with the hateful, snide, and vicious comments. My family roots are in the Appalachian South and I resent very much many of the comments. When I read stuff like this, it makes me more and more pleased that Donald. J. Trump is the President of the United States. Yesterday, Trump was here in Nashville. The line of people to see him and hear him speak stretched for over a mile outside Municipal Auditorium. HRC never attracted crowds of such proportions; in fact her running mate Tim Kaine could barely get over 30 people to listen to his nonsense. People are tired of listening to Democrats and their empty promises. The people of Appalachia once voted for Democrats, hoping for economic assistance, which never materialized. Those in West Virginia used to get federal money when Robert Byrd represented them in the Senate. Now that he's gone the well has dried up. Instead Obama did all he could through needless "environmental" regulations to kill their livelihood from the coal mines and their way of life in favor of the liberal urban disaster. Who could blame them for voting for Trump? HRC can careless about them! She champions the values of Beyonce, J-Z, and Bon Jovi. Theirs are not the values of Appalachia, and they are certainly not mine. Thank you.
3
Fact free screeds like this make me so glad I left Dixie behind after 35 years living there. Obama and the democrats are the cause of all the evil in America- hope the republican congress and president make everything wonderful for you. Check back in 4 years.
12
Fighting the opioid epidemic means a total revisiting of our assumptions, our beliefs and the drug war. A health problem, mental or otherwise, cannot be won by war. We've tried for over 97 years. Save huge money and taxes and stop the drug gangs by taking away their income. Medicalize all drugs and watch the problem dissipate like in Switzerland. The problem is not directly with opiates, the problem is when you stop giving them to addicts. There was about 1 1/2 percent of the population addicted to opiates in 1901. The percentage of the population addicted to opiates in 2017 is, you guessed it, 1 1/2%. It will not take over our country if we medicalize heroin. I would rather have doctor deciding whether my son gets heroin than the gangster down the street.
11
Vancouver B.C. has a good system for drug addicts too. This model should be replicated in many states/cities and provinces. Drugs were decrimilnalized in Portugal and somehow that country is doing ok. Legal marijuana is also beneficial for addicts to get off of the needle and or bottle.
3
I think we need some good statistics and not just a few anecdotes here. In my experience most people are living pretty far from where they were born or at least from where their parents and grandparents were born. And this mobility takes place in many directions -- from big cities to small towns as well as from rural America to cities. And then there are recent poor immigrants -- moving to an unknown land where people speak a different language and practice different customs. Many of these immigrants do fine -- at least in a generation or two. And the brain mobility (not drain) goes in multiple directions as well. Of course, some small towns and rural communities are just desolate. But most likely not very far way is another community that is pretty OK. Sure it's not fair to have to move away from all you know. But many of the people who complain about this are free marketers, supporting the invisible hand of the market in other facets of reality. If you don't like the pure free market, then support some human planning and adjustment. It works when done right.
1
a very real problem. Many of us know it to be true. Consider also that the Nation beggars the world for talent to come here, thus depriving other, poorer nations, of their native talent. It would be good if we considered those impacts when crafting national policy as well. And when education and infrastructure funding comes along, remember those forgotten areas and find ways to create new and more dispersed hubs of excellence around the nation. Think connectivity and then the beauty of many of those neglected areas. It is complex thus an interesting challenge for talented people.
1
It boils down to defining meaning in one's life. The biological need to survive and thrive supersedes all urges in life. Geography and location become irrelevant in this search. Charity begins at home. When I succeed I can then help others less fortunate succeed. Self effort, fundamental to surviving and thriving, requires all kinds of sacrifice for a higher good. When I change the world changes. I can help others up to a certain point...the ultimate responsibility for change must be owned by the individual. Just as decay and demise is an essential aspect of life, countries, states, peoples, individuals must face this same facets of life. The reason California and silicon valley thrive is because birth, decay and renewal happen faster, hard work and intellectual challenges are diligently sought and change is the breath of life.
1
I would add cultural expulsion of more progressively minded young people from rural areas as a compounding factor to the economic brain-drain described. As generations of LGBTQ people before us have known, why live a life in an area where you are threatened, mocked and targeted if you have the ability to move to a city where your differences are welcomed?
No "lower cost of living" could make moving to a place where my family is at risk worthwhile. Several families I know have relocated over the past year to safer urban areas due to the increasing hatred they faced in their hometowns. Many more have expressed a desperate desire to do so but can't for financial reasons. It's nice for Mr. Vance that he has that choice but, for a growing list of people, red state America is a dangerous place.
No "lower cost of living" could make moving to a place where my family is at risk worthwhile. Several families I know have relocated over the past year to safer urban areas due to the increasing hatred they faced in their hometowns. Many more have expressed a desperate desire to do so but can't for financial reasons. It's nice for Mr. Vance that he has that choice but, for a growing list of people, red state America is a dangerous place.
16
Mr. Vance has the advantage of having ties to this region, as well as being a white man.
2
It is heartening that Mr. Vance is "moving home" and is dedicated to giving back to the community. However, as someone who is from Silicon Valley, I have to say that his perception of and experience in the Valley is also skewed. He strikes me as a member of the 1%, not a working slug in a place where someone tried to rent a tent in their backyard for $1,200 a month.
Economic anxiety exists in the Valley -- while there are a plethora of jobs, where working people are struggling with extraordinary housing prices and perpetual job uncertainty. While Silicon Valley is currently booming, it always busts and the layoffs are usually harsh. Even in good times, there are constant mergers and layoffs, and working 8 hours a day is considered a half day. It is no wonder that a survey a few months ago found about one-third of Silicon Valley residents want to leave.
Can it compare to the hopelessness and economic decline of Appalachia? Absolutely not. But life in Silicon Valley isn't the idyllic, optimistic paradise that Mr. Vance would have us believe. And on a more positive note, it appears that more affordable cities like Cincinnati, in his native Ohio, are attracting artists and business owners who could never survive in places like San Francisco.
Economic anxiety exists in the Valley -- while there are a plethora of jobs, where working people are struggling with extraordinary housing prices and perpetual job uncertainty. While Silicon Valley is currently booming, it always busts and the layoffs are usually harsh. Even in good times, there are constant mergers and layoffs, and working 8 hours a day is considered a half day. It is no wonder that a survey a few months ago found about one-third of Silicon Valley residents want to leave.
Can it compare to the hopelessness and economic decline of Appalachia? Absolutely not. But life in Silicon Valley isn't the idyllic, optimistic paradise that Mr. Vance would have us believe. And on a more positive note, it appears that more affordable cities like Cincinnati, in his native Ohio, are attracting artists and business owners who could never survive in places like San Francisco.
7
It's so easy to justify these moves if you are straight, white, and privileged. A lot of people that grew up in towns like this, including me, left because it was an area thriving with bigotry and hatred of anyone different.
And although I am white, I didn't want my money paying taxes to further support local and state government that are intentionally hurting civil rights of minorities.
Why is it only on us to do all the work to improve these areas? I believe these areas need to meet us half way and that means respecting civil rights for all people. That means making voting easier for all citizens, not harder. That means saying climate change is real. That protecting the environment is not a political issue.
So I live in Colorado now and i'm not going back until these areas join us in the 21st Century. I have yet to see a confederate flag flying openly here, even though I would see them almost daily back east in central Pennsylvania on bumper stickers or flying proudly in pickup trucks.
And although I am white, I didn't want my money paying taxes to further support local and state government that are intentionally hurting civil rights of minorities.
Why is it only on us to do all the work to improve these areas? I believe these areas need to meet us half way and that means respecting civil rights for all people. That means making voting easier for all citizens, not harder. That means saying climate change is real. That protecting the environment is not a political issue.
So I live in Colorado now and i'm not going back until these areas join us in the 21st Century. I have yet to see a confederate flag flying openly here, even though I would see them almost daily back east in central Pennsylvania on bumper stickers or flying proudly in pickup trucks.
11
If readers are under the impression that Columbus is some backwater Mayberry, think again! While not Silicon Valley, Columbus is a comfortable city of 850,000 people. Its economy is diverse, grounded by both Ohio State University (60,000 students and nearly 30,000 faculty and staff) and the Ohio state government.
If ol' J.D. is packin' up the family and wants to move to the Ohio being decimated by poor economic prospects and opioid problems, may I humbly recommend places in Appalachian southern/southeastern Ohio. Living there is a challenge every day, and there are no Starbucks or fine dining restaurants to which one may retreat to feed big-city cravings. Brains aren't draining out of Columbus either: both the Battelle Memorial Institute and Chemical Abstract Services are there, along with a list of Fortune 500 companies. If Mr. Vance believes what he has written here, he is more out of touch with his home state than he realizes.
If ol' J.D. is packin' up the family and wants to move to the Ohio being decimated by poor economic prospects and opioid problems, may I humbly recommend places in Appalachian southern/southeastern Ohio. Living there is a challenge every day, and there are no Starbucks or fine dining restaurants to which one may retreat to feed big-city cravings. Brains aren't draining out of Columbus either: both the Battelle Memorial Institute and Chemical Abstract Services are there, along with a list of Fortune 500 companies. If Mr. Vance believes what he has written here, he is more out of touch with his home state than he realizes.
6
Vance is moving to the 15th largest city in America. Hillbilly? I'm going to go with a no here.
5
Good point. The author may have moved from a blue state to a red state, but seen more closely, he's merely hopped from one island to another in the 'blue archipelago' (the NYT had an excellent series of maps showing just how clearly the political sorting has become a matter of rural and small town vs. urban and big town.
3
As someone who is a native of Ohio (unlike JD Vance), Columbus is not a backwater Hillbilly hellhole, neither is Cleveland (where I was born), or Cincinnati. Columbus is also one of the more progressive and well educated places in the entire state and would not be considered a downgrade in most people's book, unless you were moving from very cosmopolitan place like Paris, New York or London. Mr. Vance in fact is making up stories about a place he just moved to. America's divide is not between LA verses Silicon Valley verse Columbus but rural verses urban people, with the people living out in the suburbs and rural area having a disconnect from a multicultural environment, where people are also more educated and open minded than they are. I lived in both small town and large cities and the biggest issue is I see is the majority of the folks living in these burgs, and in the suburbs is that they are quick to demonize people who are different from them (POC, gays, immigrants, the secular) and have a regressive outlook toward most things, which is why they vote Republican. I for one am very tired of the folks living in the provincial areas complaining how the world is changing too fast for them, while they fall more behind in terms of skills, education, and being a kind and open minded people. This article is a puff piece by a man with agenda.
13
If readers like this piece by Vance, they should read up on Wendell Berry, who's been writing on this topic for ages. To commit to real sod is important. Comments here are a little mean-spirited, sorry to say. I have lived in multiple size communities, from pop. 200 in the reddest of rural earth, to nearly a million. I choose to remain in a city now not because of financial interests but social ones. Lord knows every time I venture out to the red areas I marvel at the size of houses, property, boats(!), and other stuff people with a quarter to half my income can afford, while I can't save enough to get a down payment on a tiny condo or duplex in the city. Rent and prices eat up a paycheck fast. I could move back and telework, given the freedoms offered by my current employer, but I'd rather pay high taxes and be happy in urbania than have a boat(!) and yet be constantly fearing the homophobic and racist attitudes of "good country people." My pursuit of happiness tells me to not put myself in such danger.
4
Mr. Vance I read your book and I found it well written and sincere but not really helpful to our national problems. I think many people will use it as an excuse not to help those with alcoholism, drug addiction, poor parenting skills, etc. You exposed your extended family to the world in all it's warts and shame like an anthropologist and got a lot of attention and money.
Adapt, migrate or die really says it all about this world and especially this country with it's Darwinian world view. I completely understand lifelong nostalgia for one's childhood as I have it for Brooklyn in the 50s. However my parents immigrated from Ireland and that is why my eight brothers and sisters and I have at least a college education and successful lives. I am sure they ached for their homeland but they were poor and figured out how to pay the passage in the bottom of the boat and come to where there were job. They never blamed anyone for their problems and we were taught to be Americans in all it's diversity.
I have lived in Oakland California for 40 years and remember there was little concern from anywhere when the crack cocaine epidemic hit this areas mainly poor African American areas. Crack had the deadly combination of being cheap, available and unbelievably addictive. Heroin is the worst when it is affordable and available. What we have needed and used to have are professionals within medically monitored treatment programs, long term residential programs, etc.
Adapt, migrate or die really says it all about this world and especially this country with it's Darwinian world view. I completely understand lifelong nostalgia for one's childhood as I have it for Brooklyn in the 50s. However my parents immigrated from Ireland and that is why my eight brothers and sisters and I have at least a college education and successful lives. I am sure they ached for their homeland but they were poor and figured out how to pay the passage in the bottom of the boat and come to where there were job. They never blamed anyone for their problems and we were taught to be Americans in all it's diversity.
I have lived in Oakland California for 40 years and remember there was little concern from anywhere when the crack cocaine epidemic hit this areas mainly poor African American areas. Crack had the deadly combination of being cheap, available and unbelievably addictive. Heroin is the worst when it is affordable and available. What we have needed and used to have are professionals within medically monitored treatment programs, long term residential programs, etc.
5
Now that it's opioid addiction concentrated in the Republican's base support (white rural and Rust Belt folks), the GOP is finally realizing that a better social safety net (including affordable health care and well-funded public health programs) is needed to pull out of the downward spiral.
Thus about 20-30 years after Reagan & H.W. cut government spending on social services and let the crack epidemic spread because or latent or tacit racism.
Thus about 20-30 years after Reagan & H.W. cut government spending on social services and let the crack epidemic spread because or latent or tacit racism.
2
My parents survived the Depression, and left the coal country of NE Pennsylvania in the 1940s, for the chemical plant promised land of NJ. $0.70/hr there was significantly better than loading coal underground at $0.50/ton. Other than for occasional family issues, mainly weddings and funerals, they never went back. It was a given that I would go to college, which ironically, turned out to be in the area that they had emigrated from. Upon graduation, while the area had its charms, it did not have suitable employment. I moved east to NJ and have been living along the I-95 corridor ever since. While NJ is a strong blue state, the beginnings of Trump country can be found less than 50 miles west of I-95.
3
Those attributing base motives to the author because he is a Republican might want to consider whether ad hominem opinions are really helpful in a venue where suffering is not dependent on party. The opinion by Mr. Vance appears to be a coda to his recent book "Hillbilly Elegy" which provides context for the decision he describes.
He should be joined by efforts in other small and medium sized towns by people of both or all parties. If people of both major parties cannot come together to deal with a structural economic problem that the national Democratic Party as presently constituted permitted and National Republican party as now constituted seek to profit from, the slide toward dissolution and dictatorship will continue.
He should be joined by efforts in other small and medium sized towns by people of both or all parties. If people of both major parties cannot come together to deal with a structural economic problem that the national Democratic Party as presently constituted permitted and National Republican party as now constituted seek to profit from, the slide toward dissolution and dictatorship will continue.
2
Maybe because the "home" to which he says he is moving is the 15th largest city in America, the largest in Ohio, and one with a major university presence and lots of high tech jobs?
8
The problem for truly struggling communities (unlike Columbus, which is a large, thriving metropolitan area) is that no one wants to move to them - except immigrants, who are willing to take a risk to get a toehold in a new country. This unwillingness is especially true of young families. With very few exceptions, people with school-age children are not going to willingly relocate to a town with crummy schools, little to no cultural life, massive negativity, and rampant social ills such an opiate addiction crisis. The one exception - immigrants - are apparently unwanted. I gather the folks of rural Nebraska or Appalachia would rather have no doctor than an Indian one.
What would help? Aside from a more welcoming attitude, a good place to start would be a vastly improved infrastructure, along with the jobs that it would generate and attract.
I definitely know what won't help: eliminating funding for healthcare, science, medical research, clean energy, NOAA, the arts, and the humanities, while giving families vouchers to attend "bible" academies.
What would help? Aside from a more welcoming attitude, a good place to start would be a vastly improved infrastructure, along with the jobs that it would generate and attract.
I definitely know what won't help: eliminating funding for healthcare, science, medical research, clean energy, NOAA, the arts, and the humanities, while giving families vouchers to attend "bible" academies.
11
I also fled the Midwest in search of greater opportunity in my late teens. After 20 years in Los Angeles, I chose to move back to my home state to be closer to family and roots. There were many benefits, including a substantially more affordable cost of living. I bought a beautiful house in an historic neighborhood just outside of Kansas City. It seemed like a great idea.
What I had not fully appreciated is how much I had changed. It was a culture shock. My family has roots in Kansas City going back generations, yet I felt lost there. It is a curious thing to feel such a deep connection to family and origin, yet to feel like such an outsider culturally. I love my family and friends and my people in the Midwest. Kansas City is a beautiful place and in many ways a refuge.
But the fact is I feel most at home in California. I guess I prefer more diversity of people, more openness to the outside world, greater economic diversity. I am grateful to be living a good life in a beautiful place, working my dream job. I tried to return to my roots, but found that I had outgrown my old home.
What I had not fully appreciated is how much I had changed. It was a culture shock. My family has roots in Kansas City going back generations, yet I felt lost there. It is a curious thing to feel such a deep connection to family and origin, yet to feel like such an outsider culturally. I love my family and friends and my people in the Midwest. Kansas City is a beautiful place and in many ways a refuge.
But the fact is I feel most at home in California. I guess I prefer more diversity of people, more openness to the outside world, greater economic diversity. I am grateful to be living a good life in a beautiful place, working my dream job. I tried to return to my roots, but found that I had outgrown my old home.
226
The most significant and underreported result of the 2016 election is the fact that Clinton voting blue counties account for 64% of US GDP while Trump voting red counties account for only 36%. This ties in with numerous studies showing how the poorest and most welfare dependent states and counties are mostly red while the most prosperous are mostly blue.
We live in an era of false conservatism, celebrating not the best of the past but the very worst - the toxic comforts of dehumanizing tribalism - idealized us, demonized them - not good thinking but abysmally bad thinking that feels good.
This bad thinking kills middle class prosperity.
Look at the mess Republicans are making of healthcare. All that matters to them is demonizing Democrats - especially Obama - and shoveling money at their wealthy donors. The rest of America can literally drop dead for all they care. Meanwhile what Obama did was take the best idea Republicans had and run with it. And what did Republicans do? As soon as Obama adopted their idea they dropped it and demonized it. Asinine Manichean thinking.
History calls these political movements authoritarianism. Science uses the language of narcissism and psychopathy. The Bible calls it Pride. A good way to start the discussion can be found at Matthew 23:12 and Luke 14:11.
We live in an era of false conservatism, celebrating not the best of the past but the very worst - the toxic comforts of dehumanizing tribalism - idealized us, demonized them - not good thinking but abysmally bad thinking that feels good.
This bad thinking kills middle class prosperity.
Look at the mess Republicans are making of healthcare. All that matters to them is demonizing Democrats - especially Obama - and shoveling money at their wealthy donors. The rest of America can literally drop dead for all they care. Meanwhile what Obama did was take the best idea Republicans had and run with it. And what did Republicans do? As soon as Obama adopted their idea they dropped it and demonized it. Asinine Manichean thinking.
History calls these political movements authoritarianism. Science uses the language of narcissism and psychopathy. The Bible calls it Pride. A good way to start the discussion can be found at Matthew 23:12 and Luke 14:11.
21
Many of the wounds suffered by 'middle america' are self inflicted. By voting values rather than wallet they lost a voice in economic policy and had to settle for seeing their children go off to war and their jobs off to the Far East. I grew up poor in New Jersey but I had secular parents who valued education, I could get into New York City anytime I wanted and went to a great college that was affordable (at the time). I have worked in Silicon Valley as well as in New York and Boston all fabulous places that share a love for achievement, a diverse workforce and a resilience in the face of change. If we had had even a modicum of industrial policy over the last 50 years the Federal government could have worked in concert with states to keep good jobs spread out around the country instead of the concentrations we have now. Mr. Vance may thrive in Columbus because what brings contentment is work, family and friends (more than location, location, location). However the fact that he is going there to work on an opioid crisis rather than building a software company is something to be pitied rather than lauded.
6
A long American story of extraction of wealth to the cities off the blood, sweat, and tears of flyover country. It was the cotton wealth from the Mississippi Valley exported to Philadelphia, New York and Boston that made the US. The city and its peers have long benefited from the center of the country. As Henry Louis Gates, Jr, noted, slave produced cotton wealth brought about New York's commercial ascendancy. It fueled the Southwest expansion, leading to today's domination on the West Coast by the tech industry. It fueled New England textile wealth and the British empire. Now, China extracts minerals for tech world wide fueling expansionism, at a heavy cost, using slaves from their flyover country to build goods. They now seek cheap local labor in the US in flyover country. The cities are the parasites drawing blood from the host, "flyover country", derided by privileged urbanists who don't realize the rigged system they benefit from. The New York City hall is just above the graves of 17,000 African slaves in a city made on cotton wealth, just as in Philly and Boston. Yet, they know not of their privilege and think that the racists are in small town USA. A small miracle that arrogant Northerners belatedly realized the sin of slavery, after becoming rich off it. Yet, still they don't recognize the wealth they acquired from white gold of the South. Lily white Scarsdale and Chappaqua again believe themselves to be saviors, above the rest.
3
@Retired and Tired
Can do without the self-aggrandizing sneer quotes but the rest of your essay is spot on. Thank you for reminding us of what we would prefer to forget.
Can do without the self-aggrandizing sneer quotes but the rest of your essay is spot on. Thank you for reminding us of what we would prefer to forget.
2
Our rural communities may be associated with a lower cost of living, shorter commutes, less traffic, cleaner environment, and other benefits. But many who left may not be able to support themselves and their families, find viable employment, (be able to pay back educational debts?) or have confidence in these rural communities' schools to educate their own children to have mobility options that they themselves exercised. If we continue to see public school education as sufficient if it trains students to function in the local community (only), we will further constrain young adults' mobility. Until our social policies support adequate wages and excellence in public schools wherever the locale, fewer folks who moved away will move back home.
4
I've read Vance's book. While I don't agree completely with his take, I appreciate his story, work ethic and apparent conviction. I hope that he truly makes a difference in some ways against the terrible drug epidemic that plagues many places in America- Ohio, and Califonia where I live now. I grew up in the rust belt of western Pennsylvania and the Ohio valley. My family and neighbors mostly had jobs, then lost them as steel and related industries collapsed. With the jobs went many welcoming signs of community and social cohesion. I eventually settled in rural northwestern California as its resource based economy of logging and fishing also disappeared. Though different in the extreme, some of the same problems of economic and social decay exist. This is especially true with intense drug abuse and the very sad consequences. My son currently doing prison time for drug crime is a personal connection to this. I don't pretend to know what patches these things together, but positive connections to work and community beyond oneself is crucial.
59
The issue in much of the heartland is not just flyover states vs. coastal regions. Even within the Midwest, we can see differences between urban areas where educated professionals congregate and the rural areas that surround them.
The media has focused deserved attention on the bigotry of Steve King in Iowa. What has happened to Iowa, they wonder. As an Iowan, I have to tell you that the division between the liberal enclaves of Iowa City, Des Moines, and other urban centers only highlights the extremism of the rural areas. Since the '80s, I have seen small towns dry up and blow away, casinos become the largest employers in a district, and family farms give way to big ag and tenant farmers. Hospitals are closing their doors in rural areas, lacking financial support, leaving those seeking aid to have to travel up to 40 miles.
I grew up in a river town of 25,000 souls, which lacked real restaurants and shopping when we moved there. Many towns have no real grocery store, no place to shop for clothes or school supplies, and residents must travel to get basic items. These places, which see advantages go entirely to larger urban areas, have become the bastion of populism and revolt against an intellectual elite.
None of this changes unless we invest in jobs in rural areas, infrastructure improvements, and support for small businesses. These people are my neighbors. They suffer when ignored.
The media has focused deserved attention on the bigotry of Steve King in Iowa. What has happened to Iowa, they wonder. As an Iowan, I have to tell you that the division between the liberal enclaves of Iowa City, Des Moines, and other urban centers only highlights the extremism of the rural areas. Since the '80s, I have seen small towns dry up and blow away, casinos become the largest employers in a district, and family farms give way to big ag and tenant farmers. Hospitals are closing their doors in rural areas, lacking financial support, leaving those seeking aid to have to travel up to 40 miles.
I grew up in a river town of 25,000 souls, which lacked real restaurants and shopping when we moved there. Many towns have no real grocery store, no place to shop for clothes or school supplies, and residents must travel to get basic items. These places, which see advantages go entirely to larger urban areas, have become the bastion of populism and revolt against an intellectual elite.
None of this changes unless we invest in jobs in rural areas, infrastructure improvements, and support for small businesses. These people are my neighbors. They suffer when ignored.
3
The article, without saying so, suggests that the rust belt and flyover country towns and states are inhabited by undereducated, unemployed citizens who believe in the trafficking of fake news.
Well, maybe that is what they have become.
Because they have evolved into receptacles of fear, bias and racism which they appear to value more than their in self interest in obtaining education, health care and the prospect of workplace retraining. Trump could not have been elected but for his appeal to those ignorant enough to buy into his cynical spiel of lies and hatred.
If Vance is correct that flyover malaise is partially the product of the "brain drain" , we can also add the demise of unions at the hands of relentless right wing attack. With less than 10% of our workforce unionized, our workers have lost the political power that organization gave them. They have essentially become abandoned and easily manipulated by the false promises of the demagogue peddling trickle down economics and social hatred as the remedy for unemployment.
A reverse brain drain is an unrealistic antidote this social sickness and will only prove Wolf correct in his admonition that you can't go home again.
The harsh truth is that the Donald Trump presidency is the product of a mentality incapable of rational thought and mired in unshakable, fanatical allegiance to his own ignorant, narcissistic rantings.
It will take a national disgrace or catastrophe to change any of this.
Well, maybe that is what they have become.
Because they have evolved into receptacles of fear, bias and racism which they appear to value more than their in self interest in obtaining education, health care and the prospect of workplace retraining. Trump could not have been elected but for his appeal to those ignorant enough to buy into his cynical spiel of lies and hatred.
If Vance is correct that flyover malaise is partially the product of the "brain drain" , we can also add the demise of unions at the hands of relentless right wing attack. With less than 10% of our workforce unionized, our workers have lost the political power that organization gave them. They have essentially become abandoned and easily manipulated by the false promises of the demagogue peddling trickle down economics and social hatred as the remedy for unemployment.
A reverse brain drain is an unrealistic antidote this social sickness and will only prove Wolf correct in his admonition that you can't go home again.
The harsh truth is that the Donald Trump presidency is the product of a mentality incapable of rational thought and mired in unshakable, fanatical allegiance to his own ignorant, narcissistic rantings.
It will take a national disgrace or catastrophe to change any of this.
9
There are over 90 million Americans of working age not in the workforce.
"Using the information provided by the U. S. Census Bureau, let's clear up the confusion and misinformation. Out of a population of 282,556,000 people, 40,093,000 moved. That's an overall percentage of 14.19 percent annually."
If you doubled that number, it would be a catastrophe for their hometowns and the places they traveled to for work.
In the towns left - it would kill property values and businesses, further stressing the towns.
In the towns the ended up in, it would drive down labor rates and increase the cost of housing for everyone.
Moving is not the simple solution, which doesn't even address the fact that there are not jobs for most of those not in the workforce.
Our workforce participation rate is around a thirty-five year low. It will be solved by fixing the taxes and regulations that strangle startups and ongoing businesses.
For the first time in our history, more businesses are dying than startups created. That was a result of bad policies at federal, state and local levels.
"Using the information provided by the U. S. Census Bureau, let's clear up the confusion and misinformation. Out of a population of 282,556,000 people, 40,093,000 moved. That's an overall percentage of 14.19 percent annually."
If you doubled that number, it would be a catastrophe for their hometowns and the places they traveled to for work.
In the towns left - it would kill property values and businesses, further stressing the towns.
In the towns the ended up in, it would drive down labor rates and increase the cost of housing for everyone.
Moving is not the simple solution, which doesn't even address the fact that there are not jobs for most of those not in the workforce.
Our workforce participation rate is around a thirty-five year low. It will be solved by fixing the taxes and regulations that strangle startups and ongoing businesses.
For the first time in our history, more businesses are dying than startups created. That was a result of bad policies at federal, state and local levels.
2
I am just now reading Brian Alexander's new book "Glass House" which chronicles the epic, if not utterly depressing economic decline of a once vibrant if not humble working-class small town less than an hour away from the hustle and bustle of urban capital central Columbus, Lancaster, Ohio.
I, too, grew up in Ohio and I too moved away, but I also watched from afar as my old home state's beautiful rural regions, full of salt-of-the-earth natives, many of them plenty grumpy from working/tending their fields, but many also friendly and accommodating, have been unilaterally so socially and economically bankrupted by, of all people, the Vulture Capitalists, one cannot help but dismiss the motives of someone like Vance.
I wish I could ask him point blank- where was your sense of outrage when places like Lancaster's good name and good standing, their schools, their people were being fed to the Capitalist lions. I just don't get it. This essay almost sounds to me to be yet one more sort of fancy silicon valley vulture venture using Ohio's 'opiate crisis' as somehow their special key to obtaining yet more grant $$. To fix a problem that was caused by...
The arrogance just astounds me.
I, too, grew up in Ohio and I too moved away, but I also watched from afar as my old home state's beautiful rural regions, full of salt-of-the-earth natives, many of them plenty grumpy from working/tending their fields, but many also friendly and accommodating, have been unilaterally so socially and economically bankrupted by, of all people, the Vulture Capitalists, one cannot help but dismiss the motives of someone like Vance.
I wish I could ask him point blank- where was your sense of outrage when places like Lancaster's good name and good standing, their schools, their people were being fed to the Capitalist lions. I just don't get it. This essay almost sounds to me to be yet one more sort of fancy silicon valley vulture venture using Ohio's 'opiate crisis' as somehow their special key to obtaining yet more grant $$. To fix a problem that was caused by...
The arrogance just astounds me.
7
I would love to go back to my home town to live. Alas, NYC (and even my beloved Brooklyn) became popular destinations for escapees like the author who were perfectly willing to live several to a studio, allowing avaricious landlords to up the rents to impossible levels and push normal small families like my husband, son and myself not just out of the city, but out of the state back in the 80s.
But, then, I'm still seeing that in all the major cities ... anyone with a bit of money to spare wants to live and raise a family at the heart of where cultural events (music, festivals, restaurants), and it's pushing out other people who were born city kids. Such, I guess, is life. The grass is always greener.
The upside of people deciding to "return home" to their small towns is that they bring their new-found respect for diversity with them. More power to them!
But, then, I'm still seeing that in all the major cities ... anyone with a bit of money to spare wants to live and raise a family at the heart of where cultural events (music, festivals, restaurants), and it's pushing out other people who were born city kids. Such, I guess, is life. The grass is always greener.
The upside of people deciding to "return home" to their small towns is that they bring their new-found respect for diversity with them. More power to them!
6
My third and final career was working for the civilian federal government where if you wanted to improve your pay grade, 90% of the time you were forced to move (unlike the foreign service where you carry your grade with you). It was jsut me, so I had to take the opportunities. Fortunately, I love to travel and meet new people and new places. Now that I am retired, though, the disadvantages are apparent: my good friends are scattered around the world; I can't afford to move back "home" because it's priced me out of living there. I relocated to the desert SW which I love but am friendless to begin with. Geography was my destiny: I lived a fascinating life. I only hope that at 70, after a couple years in my new home state, I'll be making enough new friends not to be alone in the end.
5
I lived in Massachusetts until I was nearly 30 and then moved to Southeastern Ohio and I'd give anything to move back East.
The sad thing is, things are only going to get worse here under the Trump presidency.
I hope all the Trump voters here remember that when they witness a precipitous drop of quality in already bad schools and are choking on coal filled air and drinking contaminated water.
The sad thing is, things are only going to get worse here under the Trump presidency.
I hope all the Trump voters here remember that when they witness a precipitous drop of quality in already bad schools and are choking on coal filled air and drinking contaminated water.
14
J.D., I wish you were moving to Portsmouth, OH, birthplace of the opiate pill mill, where 13% of our babies come into the world with neonatal abstinence syndrome, 15% of our 18-24 years old lack a high school diploma, 15% of our families are below the poverty level, and SNAP recipients make up 25% of our residents. We are directly across the river from Kentucky, 1 hour from the Huntington (WV) Tri-State Airport, 2 hours from Port Columbus, 2.5 hours from Cincinnati/CVG. And part of our county has the privilege of living in Ohio's best example of a gerrymandered Congressional district, the 6th, extending through 18 Appalachian Ohio counties from Mahoning County (Youngstown) in the northeast to Scioto in the south, a distance of about 350 miles meandering along the Ohio River to Portsmouth. This is certainly a place that needs all the help it can get.
143
I'm from there too, still have family there. Some of it is a lack of desire on the part of the town to help itself. Attempts to rebuild or attract business for the last 30 years have been met with resistance from the status quo. And now there's nothing left for anyone.
3
Hi Liz, We are neighbors. I grew up in Wheelersburg and have a law practice in Portsmouth. Bset regards, John
3
My small town is Staten Island and there is no going back for me. Putting aside the rampant racism and bigotry, the lack of respect and hostility to education and a love of learning that I experienced growing there is something I would never subject my own children to. Yes, there are many incredibly warm, kind and caring people there who would give you the shirt off their backs and living in the Land of Minnesota "Nice" makes me long for their openhearted warmth. That being said, there is nothing that I can do to fix them and I'm not about to try.
115
Good point-many people leave small towns because of racism and intolerance towards anyone "different." Much of the damage done to red states is due to policies that were in place for decades,that drove anyway people who could have contributed to a community. My father left West Virginia to go into the military in 1948, and could not return until 1966, because he married a woman of color. We went back 3 times in the 1960's-70's and only lasted 2-3 days due to the bigotry of his family and their neighbors. I have since met a few people who grew up near my father in West Virginia-they all left after high school and probably will never return either.
1
It is valuable indeed to bring back to your home town whatever benefits you can rather than contributing only to "brain drain" or energy drain. Your wife's worry about schools for the kids is probably the most typical barrier to people's making that kind of commitment.
We should not, though, leap to a philosophy that it is primarily the responsibility of those who left and made good to go back to where they came from to solve the hometown problems.
We all need to work for and care about people who could benefit from what we could offer, even people in towns where we have never lived..
We should not, though, leap to a philosophy that it is primarily the responsibility of those who left and made good to go back to where they came from to solve the hometown problems.
We all need to work for and care about people who could benefit from what we could offer, even people in towns where we have never lived..
39
'Why I'm Moving Home' resonated with me because it echoes the bubbles that exist around our country that keep us apart. Our separation from one another fuels stereotyping, scapegoating, 'fake' news and the war of words that has already fostered the catastrophe of Trump. J.D. Vance's book, 'Hillbilly Elegy' provided a strong sense of the difficult lives of his family in Appalachia and the Rust Belt. That he has gone home again feels hopeful to me. Our mighty challenge beyond Trump is finding ways to listen to one another. One of our great divides along with the economic one is political. Many of us, victims of technology and our inability, so far, to create many stable, decent paying jobs, have also lost our communities, our sense of identity and hope for our children's future. Vance has witnessed the hollowing out of parts of our country. He got out and flourished in Silicon Valley, another bubble. Now Vance is going home. There is much to do there; 'combat the opioid epidemic'; adding his talents and energy to others' to establish business and civic institutions and to contribute to the revitalization of the region. These are good reasons to go home again. Bravo!
35
I thought you said Vance was from the Rust Belt and Appalachia? How is moving to the 15th largest city in America, population 850,000, and pretty cosmopolitan, moving "home" for Vance?
4
I visited Columbus last year. The German Village we walked around was especially charming. Columbus is also home to OSU, a massive, vibrant Big 10 STATE research university. And while I certainly wish him all the best in his wonderful initiative, I have to ask what the Trump era will actually do to Ohio. And they are certainly right to question, especially, what Trump and DeVos will do to public schools. Good luck going home. I enjoyed your book immensely, but I fear that all the people you chronicle in your story, probably many Trump supporters, will be sorely disappointed when the emperor has no clothes. And i sure hope Mr. Vance doesn't expect to get any Community Block Grant funding for his laudable initiative.
8
Many of these hoe town folks are not stupid but most are ignorant. They have no ideas about what alternatives exist for them. They are trapped by their own fears and anger. They do not see the destruction of their lives has to do with the Con men and women who lie and misinform them. They vote against their interests due to these emotions. Vance and others could best help by opening their minds to actually understand the world.
23
I spend half my time in San Diego and the other half in rural South Dakota and I can assure you that rural people are not stupid. They are, however, segregated from East and Left Coast liberals. They see life and quality of life differently. Their values focus on close community ties and the continuation of a way of life they love. I taught political science in South Dakota for 17 years and learned a lot. The major problem is allowing interest groups like the NRA to become major political intermediaries in place of parties. There is no easy way out. We are all going to need to listen to one another.
4
They are proudly and willfully ignorant and have no interest in another perspective. Ask anyone who grew up somewhere like that and then tries to return home even for a visit.
4
I read "Hillbilly Elegy". I enjoyed it very much and have recommended to many friends. But it left with me with one nagging question:
What is the author doing working in financial services in the Bay Area? Why doesn't he take his Yale law degree and marine corp credentials back to where it could do the most good: his home state of Ohio?
I'm glad to see my question answered. Good for you Mr. Vance. Wishing you well.
What is the author doing working in financial services in the Bay Area? Why doesn't he take his Yale law degree and marine corp credentials back to where it could do the most good: his home state of Ohio?
I'm glad to see my question answered. Good for you Mr. Vance. Wishing you well.
11
I have been trying to support the perspective of this op ed for quite a while now. Yes, mobility is great, very American, but it destroys communities and along with them a sense of connection, social obligation, tradition and even self respect. We can't all just be soulless interchangeable parts in the giant corporate mechanisms of our day. What will the US do when its smarter denizens want to move to India or China for jobs, education and opportunities, because that is beginning to happen. Should we value the values of capitalism more than nation, democracy, friends and family? Someone in government is going to have to step up and lead, because the paradigm shift is happening whether us humans adapt well or poorly to it.
6
If one leaves a community only to form another elsewhere nothing is being destroyed.
1
Sounds like someone laying the groundwork for a political career that he would have neither the popularity nor resources to pursue in California.
39
You're moving home to run for office.
35
Why not, someone's gonna do it, and he's got this care about the other guy kinda conservation I recall from the old days of George II. Nice of George to insist on mental health parity so Obama could demand we all have access to it.
1
Given the delopments in our high tech world where we have isolated ourselves with smart phones and laptops many people are not engaged with the community they live in but with a virtual one like Facebook. Thus to expect very many people to stop and consider their choice of hometown or home state is probably not in the cards. America elected one of the most egocentric people on the planet to be our so called president, enough said.
2
Sorry and all, and I appreciate what Mr. Vance has to say about working people, and I admire his willingness to move home, but at some level, this is just another case of a rich guy who's made some dough someplace rich, and can now afford to live the dream.
It might as well be a Peter Maysles novel.
Oh, and the cite of Charles Murray is semi-loathsome. For one thing, it brings in the same old sly insinuation (not so much of an insinuation as a claim, actually) that them rich libs in them super-ZIPs, THEY the real racists.
For another, and for worse, those super-ZIPs (as well as the decimation of rural towns and rural life) got made by plain old capitalism. This is what it does: "creative destruction."
It might as well be a Peter Maysles novel.
Oh, and the cite of Charles Murray is semi-loathsome. For one thing, it brings in the same old sly insinuation (not so much of an insinuation as a claim, actually) that them rich libs in them super-ZIPs, THEY the real racists.
For another, and for worse, those super-ZIPs (as well as the decimation of rural towns and rural life) got made by plain old capitalism. This is what it does: "creative destruction."
29
Little Vance is obviously the "flavor of the month." He tries very hard to explain the foul odors that emanate from the armpits of America. It doesn't work for me.
I also tire of those who wear their military service on their sleeves.
I also tire of those who wear their military service on their sleeves.
27
Sorry you lack compassion. You must feel angry and sad. Remind you of anyone?
4
Columbus and surrounding Franklin County gave Hillary Clinton 60 per cent and Donald Trump 34 per cent in the presidential election. It is now the largest city in Ohio, having surpassed declining industrial areas like Cleveland and Cincinnati. It has the state government, Ohio State University, and a number of large service businesses like Nationwide Insurance, as its employment base. Little industry, but a lot of knowledge businesses. So, although Columbus is in Ohio, it is more like Washington, D.C. or San Francisco than Akron or Middletown. We need to ask ourselves why Columbus is so successful while the rest of Ohio's towns and cities are in decline. The answer, it seems to me, is a lot of public employees and many knowledge-based businesses. How do you replicate this elsewhere?
35
Welcome home. My son lost a HS friend a few weeks ago due to a heroin overdose. Sadly, too may similar stories are being shared in central Ohio. I planned on staying here for 3 years but I am now on year 15; Ohio was and is a wonderful place to raise a family but we are in dire need of assistance in dealing with the scourge of drugs. It appears we are not likely to get help from our current administration and so efforts like yours, Mr. Vance, are sorely needed and greatly appreciated. Again, welcome home.
70
Welcome home, Mr. Vance. I enjoy your commentaries. Originally, I'm from Pittsburgh. I moved to the Columbus region right after I left the Air Force and Vietnam. My main reason for leaving my beloved home town was opportunity. So yes, I know what you're talking about. In Columbus I found good jobs and eventually got my degree and met my wife.
Columbus is hardly the rust belt, and it meets many people's expectations of a large, modern urban center, with over a million people. I do applaud your your focus on tackling the opiate crisis. The surrounding cities within an hour's drive of downtown Columbus - Marion, Springfield, Bellefontaine, Sydney, Circleville, Lancaster - are home to some of the worst of the opiate overdose crisis anywhere in the country. Your help is very much needed and appreciated.
Columbus is hardly the rust belt, and it meets many people's expectations of a large, modern urban center, with over a million people. I do applaud your your focus on tackling the opiate crisis. The surrounding cities within an hour's drive of downtown Columbus - Marion, Springfield, Bellefontaine, Sydney, Circleville, Lancaster - are home to some of the worst of the opiate overdose crisis anywhere in the country. Your help is very much needed and appreciated.
66
Has anyone read the article?! Vance is moving back to Ohio to set up shop to fight opioid addiction. Many readers have ascribed all kinds of other reasons for this noble act.
9
While we appreciate your "sacrifice," some of us enjoy it here in Columbus--and not simply because it's home. As you well know, Columbus is a thriving metro of 2 million and home to our state capital, THE Ohio State University (60k strong), and a burgeoning arts scene. Your anticipated efforts addressing the opiate epidemic are appreciated, but perhaps towns like Mansfield, Youngstown, Akron, or Dayton would be more appropriate places for your public service.
185
You don't have to go to the states that voted for Trump to see the ravages of technology and globalization and the scourge of opioid abuse. You see many towns like that in New York's Mohawk and Hudson valleys, and in New England's Connecticut, Merrimack, and Blackstone valleys. Lots of abandoned red brick factories and store fronts.
The point here is that we shouldn't think of this problem as one confined to the midwest rust belt and appalachia.
The point here is that we shouldn't think of this problem as one confined to the midwest rust belt and appalachia.
191
Connecticut's decline started way before "technology and globalization" By the 60's the small farms and stream (water) driven mills had faded out. To be replaced by.... "nothing". So I left after finishing high school.
Connecticut, it seems, is just not profitable. Except as a home for hedge funds, and corporate CEO's. So, no, the private sector is not going to bring back jobs. Too much investment, for too little return.
Capitalism and it's discontents.
Connecticut, it seems, is just not profitable. Except as a home for hedge funds, and corporate CEO's. So, no, the private sector is not going to bring back jobs. Too much investment, for too little return.
Capitalism and it's discontents.
2
I am tired of the lionization of JD Vance.
"Not long before the election, a friend forwarded me a conspiracy theory about Bill and Hillary Clinton’s involvement in a pedophilia ring and asked me whether it was true." Not a word about whether Vance even tried to disabuse a friend of the notion of such a baldfaced lie.
And calling Charles Murray a "scholar" is more charitable than merited.
And he's moving back to a rural area, in the form of Columbus, Ohio, population about 850,000?
He wants to go take on "the opioid epidemic?" One thing every opioid addict starts with is a prescription. So that means taking on and retraining the medical establishment, getting Big Pharma to stop profiteering as merchants of addiction and death, and dealing with Paul Ryan's plan, #trumpdontcare, that makes affordable rehab out of the reach of the poor Vance pretends to speak for. Is Vance another lip servant?
Trump's budget axe is poised to chop down Americorps, a program that redistributes those college grads back to the rural areas you love (like Columbus?). My niece is taking a gap year before going to med school running a free clinic where she went to college in small Walla Walla, WA. (Only about 825,000 fewer people than Columbus) Most of the patients are poor, latino field hands. How will Trump and Ryan and your party help them?
"Not long before the election, a friend forwarded me a conspiracy theory about Bill and Hillary Clinton’s involvement in a pedophilia ring and asked me whether it was true." Not a word about whether Vance even tried to disabuse a friend of the notion of such a baldfaced lie.
And calling Charles Murray a "scholar" is more charitable than merited.
And he's moving back to a rural area, in the form of Columbus, Ohio, population about 850,000?
He wants to go take on "the opioid epidemic?" One thing every opioid addict starts with is a prescription. So that means taking on and retraining the medical establishment, getting Big Pharma to stop profiteering as merchants of addiction and death, and dealing with Paul Ryan's plan, #trumpdontcare, that makes affordable rehab out of the reach of the poor Vance pretends to speak for. Is Vance another lip servant?
Trump's budget axe is poised to chop down Americorps, a program that redistributes those college grads back to the rural areas you love (like Columbus?). My niece is taking a gap year before going to med school running a free clinic where she went to college in small Walla Walla, WA. (Only about 825,000 fewer people than Columbus) Most of the patients are poor, latino field hands. How will Trump and Ryan and your party help them?
34
Often when moving away from home, especially a home where ideas have become so archaic and out of step, we forget the people we left behind have become stagnant in thought. When manufacturing jobs moved out there was no safety net for those displaced workers. They had to move to survive. If you look at the election results of major cities in the Midwest, South and Texas you would be surprised. What we are seeing every night from the WH and media are the actions of those in power who are leading this country down a dark path. Yes, there are those few misguided people who actually would back the devil if he brought prosperity back into their lives. But most understand they are mere pawns and hope for some relief.
We are faced with a stark reality, we have been divided by a group that believes their way or the highway. Republicans constant remarks that job losses are due to immigrants or big government regulations allows them to push the fear button and maintain power. Those in the Midwest and South need a solution to job losses and out sourcing. The Republican solution is dangerous, reckless and void of any humanity. Going back will not change their minds, Mr. Vance's solution may begin the process but more is needed.
We are faced with a stark reality, we have been divided by a group that believes their way or the highway. Republicans constant remarks that job losses are due to immigrants or big government regulations allows them to push the fear button and maintain power. Those in the Midwest and South need a solution to job losses and out sourcing. The Republican solution is dangerous, reckless and void of any humanity. Going back will not change their minds, Mr. Vance's solution may begin the process but more is needed.
93
Thank you for coming home. Except for the Army and college I have lived in Southern Ohio all my life (72 years). I have seen the transformation of this region from booming urbanity and idyllic rural life to drug infested decrepitude. Neat, clean, well maintained neighborhoods have disintegrated into junky yards, dilapidated homes and streets full of potholes. Demolition permits outnumber building permits. Drugs are killing us on multiple levels. I identified with your book because I have seen it up close to those I care about.
132
It's not geography, it's community, so well articulated in Hillbilly elegy. As for the opioid problem, there are very few "rehab" programs that actually work; recidivism is high, unless the programs are very long term- like 2+ years. Never will there be enough government money is available to fund what works. Mr. Vance's efforts absolutely needs to focus on family, education and family. Throwing well-intended but ineffective money NEVER works. Way to go J.D.
51
There is one proven program that rehabilitates drug addicts and petty criminals. It is called Delancy Street and you are correct; it requires a two-year commitment.
Many people chose Delancy Street against their will; they were charged with a crime and the judge gave them a choice: prison or Delancy Street.
I am lucky to work with some Delancy Street graduates. They have seen hell first hand and are now the best employees in the company. And some of the happiest.
Many people chose Delancy Street against their will; they were charged with a crime and the judge gave them a choice: prison or Delancy Street.
I am lucky to work with some Delancy Street graduates. They have seen hell first hand and are now the best employees in the company. And some of the happiest.
1
Another thing that might help those currently addicted would be reform that would help them return to work without huge penalties. I don't know about Ohio, but my disabled sister who lives in Texas has told me that she can effectively never return to work, even if she could find a job she is capable of doing, because the state would expect her to pay it back for benefits she received from public assistance. Ditto for any inheritance, which means that she will live in guaranteed poverty for the rest of her life. Perhaps such punitive rules should be changed so that people can be on assistance or compensation for disability for a while, but return to work without penalty if the disability improves or if they can find a job that can accommodate them. Productive employment could then be a cornerstone of recovery for those addicted to opioids, giving them an incentive to remain clean or stay in a methadone program.
4
One thought that this interesting essay brings to mind is that as these poor areas lose population, often the "best and the brightest", those who remain would seem to gain something of vital importance: political power. Are those remaining less educated? Do they perhaps resent their former neighbors, maybe family members, who have left for areas with better opportunities? The remaining diminished population still elects two senators to Congress, along with their representatives, whose districts, with smaller populations, are more easily gerrymandered. The result? The Electoral College is selected by a minority of voters, forcing their will upon the majority. But this situation could be rectified if more folks like J. D. Vance return to their roots, diluting the concentration of power, and returning some political diversity to these areas.
92
I read that Mr. Vance voted for Trump. Is that true? If so it doesn't give me hope for serious change in this area.
3
It is amazing how these commentors read something, and then completely ignore every single point made because the author isn't technically moving to his actual home, but to columbous.
I have seen this happen in many arguments. When someone finds themselves unable to adequately riposte, usually due to their argument being fairly flimsy, they seek out a single trivial error and then harp on it. It's a way of signalling your own supremacy without all the trouble of having to come up with a cogent argument.
Republicans are past masters of this trick. Now democrats are climbing on board too. I think this is because, at least on this article, every argument in the end just seems to boil down to "you're white, heterosexual Christian and therefore bad." Or, in a serious twist, "you're a conservative and therefore bad." And the old favorite "It's a fundamental human right."
Basically, I get the impression that most who post on the NYT have never had their opinions seriously challenged because they live in a political and intellectual bubble. Now that is not to say many conservatives don't also live in bubbles, and they do. But if you were honestly reading this comment thinking "oh he doesn't think conservatives do what he's talking about" it means you are not actually considering my argument but just looking for simple things so you can ignore it. And this too is indicative of a society that is sorely out of practice when it comes to heavy duty thinking.
I have seen this happen in many arguments. When someone finds themselves unable to adequately riposte, usually due to their argument being fairly flimsy, they seek out a single trivial error and then harp on it. It's a way of signalling your own supremacy without all the trouble of having to come up with a cogent argument.
Republicans are past masters of this trick. Now democrats are climbing on board too. I think this is because, at least on this article, every argument in the end just seems to boil down to "you're white, heterosexual Christian and therefore bad." Or, in a serious twist, "you're a conservative and therefore bad." And the old favorite "It's a fundamental human right."
Basically, I get the impression that most who post on the NYT have never had their opinions seriously challenged because they live in a political and intellectual bubble. Now that is not to say many conservatives don't also live in bubbles, and they do. But if you were honestly reading this comment thinking "oh he doesn't think conservatives do what he's talking about" it means you are not actually considering my argument but just looking for simple things so you can ignore it. And this too is indicative of a society that is sorely out of practice when it comes to heavy duty thinking.
103
I believe if you check you will find Mr. Vance identifies as a conservative. For an intelligent person coming from the background described in his book I must confess that is difficult to understand. The Republican/Conservative idea that government is bad does not square with the fact that major safety net programs like Social Security and Medicare were developed by Democrats/Progressives but most of the people they serve are the middle class and working class who reliably vote Republican against their own best interests.
5
It's one thing to have one's views seriously challenged by a thoughtful conservative, but quite another to have them attacked by a rabid Trump supporter. If a person complains about "political correctness," I know which one I am dealing with and withdraw from the conversation. Ditto if a person brings up "fake news."
2
Amen to that.
Unless WE all recognize our own biases, and correct them: WE will stay the divided states of America.
Deep Thinkers and Tireless Doers Needed.
Unless WE all recognize our own biases, and correct them: WE will stay the divided states of America.
Deep Thinkers and Tireless Doers Needed.
1
Keep patting yourself on the back J.D. But remember, your grandparents moved from Kentucky to Ohio in search of a better life and found it (you are the proof). You and your family survived due to programs funded by your fellow taxpayers. Some of us are third generation scotch-irish hillbillies. We don't all live in super-zips, but we are thriving because our parents made significant sacrifices to move to a better life. They were brave, hard-working and helped by their fellow citizen taxpayers.
Moving to Columbus is hardly putting your money where your mouth is. (http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/blog/2015/01/ohio-s-wealthiest-zip-c...
Moving to Columbus is hardly putting your money where your mouth is. (http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/blog/2015/01/ohio-s-wealthiest-zip-c...
283
I simply do not understand what it is you are against in Vance's article. His success? Making a big deal out of moving back to an an area which has suffered from young, capable people leaving? What?
4
I share Scott Butler's distaste for this article. Columbus has not suffered from has not suffered from "young capable people leaving;" it
4
I left Grand Rapids, Mich. at 17. Never looked back. Our suburban neighborhood was a lot of hard-working, hard-playing union factory workers with a lot of toys - cars, boats, snowmobiles. Did they all vote for Trump now? Because he's not bringing back their jobs, certainly not union jobs. Thought about going back just because it's cheaper. Not GR, though. Maybe the SE corner.
9
Mr. Vance you may be going home but give us a break about your big sacrifice. Columbus is a thriving big city and home of one of the largest and best research universities in the country. You have made a name for yourself chiding out of touch liberals as if all liberals and progressives fit such an elite category. Many of us rose up from working class backgrounds and did not fall for populist hacks like Donald Trump the rich man's son with his elite and pampered children. We did not turn into drug addicted bigots but took the personal responsibility conservatives preached and made our way. We also showed support for social justice for all in need regardless of race, ethnicity, class or region. Don't assume all liberals are hypocritical as you follow your plan to use your new found fame to find a base to run for office. Instead look in the mirror.
30
Big, blue states like California also have small towns. In fact, I grew up in one and now live in a different one. Folks from other places who stereotype us as urban sophisticates who are out of touch with "real America," should come west and take a drive, through small towns, and big cities. We're not just LA, SF and Disneyland.
14
I left Detroit in 1951. I can't go home again because it no longer exists.
"Detroit, as I knew it",
www.efn.org/~hkrieger/detroit.htm
"Detroit, as I knew it",
www.efn.org/~hkrieger/detroit.htm
8
Went to U of D in 1980's. Have been back to Detroit recently, and some good things are happening.
3
Love your website, Herman Krieger!
2
Is this guy's 15 minutes up yet? He wants a pat on the back for moving back to one of the largest cities in Ohio? His self-promotion and the Times' embrace of it is tiring.
28
Ohio is a nice place.
7
I suspect we'll be watching to see if your foundation for the addicted comes to pass and helps the people you intend to or whether you're simply looking for a congressional district to run in. I see from the map that the place couldn't be any more gerrymandered. Either way, a laudable move.
While working with the addicted, I hope you'll not forget to remind them that although addiction is a disease, a lot of their other problems relate to the bad choices you describe in your book and were not the fault of Obama. Nor will they be much mitigated by Trump.
While working with the addicted, I hope you'll not forget to remind them that although addiction is a disease, a lot of their other problems relate to the bad choices you describe in your book and were not the fault of Obama. Nor will they be much mitigated by Trump.
11
J.D., please tell your wife that unpredictable weather is a plus (given the boring alternative) and that with public education under attack in DC school quality is likely to be threatened even in the Silicon Valley.
It is good to hear you are headed home. I respected "Hillbilly Elegy" both for its political prescience and the personal triumph you chronicle but I could not help feel that, just as the Democrats misread the environment you so deftly described and misplayed their campaign, your own political leanings suggest you learned the wrong lessons from your success in the face of such hopelessness. Is it too much to hope that your return might presage a reassessment?
It is good to hear you are headed home. I respected "Hillbilly Elegy" both for its political prescience and the personal triumph you chronicle but I could not help feel that, just as the Democrats misread the environment you so deftly described and misplayed their campaign, your own political leanings suggest you learned the wrong lessons from your success in the face of such hopelessness. Is it too much to hope that your return might presage a reassessment?
9
Perhaps we should leave it to Mr. Vance's wife, an independent autonomous human being, to decide for herself whether or not unpredictable weather is a plus, rather than "telling" her what she should or should not find boring.
Hi JD,
As I put your book down a few months ago, I thought to myself, "He'd do much more good if he moved back home rather than Silicon Valley". So congratulations on that decision.
As far as public schools go, I think you need to continue to work as a role model, & send your children to a public school. It certainly didn't hurt you, & it hasn't hurt me. Public school is the best when parents & teachers work together for the success of the children. So do that.
Finally, I have to say (since I'm on my soapbox here), that in your book, you just don't give the impression that you realize what a freak of nature (& I mean that in a nice way), you are. The exact confluence of opportunity/nature/nurture/inherent drive. How many others like you have you met?
NYT - thanks for this opportunity to comment. Nancy
As I put your book down a few months ago, I thought to myself, "He'd do much more good if he moved back home rather than Silicon Valley". So congratulations on that decision.
As far as public schools go, I think you need to continue to work as a role model, & send your children to a public school. It certainly didn't hurt you, & it hasn't hurt me. Public school is the best when parents & teachers work together for the success of the children. So do that.
Finally, I have to say (since I'm on my soapbox here), that in your book, you just don't give the impression that you realize what a freak of nature (& I mean that in a nice way), you are. The exact confluence of opportunity/nature/nurture/inherent drive. How many others like you have you met?
NYT - thanks for this opportunity to comment. Nancy
6
A thoughtful column. I expect that Vance will soon run for political office. He could be a formidable leader -- Jim Webb with the rough edges smoothed off.
5
I've lived in Ohio for years and I can tell you that what the rust belt needs is not Silicon Valley investment managers like Mr. Vance, but immigrant entrepreneurs. People who see opportunity where most Americans just see a place they'd rather leave, or work they'd prefer not to do.
22
Come on JD, you will probably move to the Columbus suburb of New Albany, Les Wexner's modern creation of Mayberry, where the schools are excellent and lily white. While I read your book and think you are earnest (to some degree) if you really want to focus on heroin addiction you should return to Middletown, one of the hearts of the epidemic in Ohio.
14
When I finished reading Hillbilly Elegy, I thought to myself, JD Vance really needs to take his knowledge and experience—of the Marines, of OSU, of Yale—home, where he can put it to the best possible use. I learned a lot about the Rust Belt from reading that book. The biggest takeaway was how essential it is for young people to have role models, mentors, or just plain adults who believe in you—and who are there to help you find your way.
I bow to JD and his wife.
I bow to JD and his wife.
5
This is the first piece of really good news in the NYT in quite a while. I'm not in favor of sending people to jail for drug abuse, but neither am I at all comfortable with suggesting that ingesting mind, and mood-altering substances is in any way healthy. So living and staying clean while living in communities where children and adults struggle to get clean and live clean has to be the right thing to do. Drug use needs to be stigmatized to the point where no normal person would dream of polluting her/his mind and body with poisons. You and your associates set a fine example for them and for us all. Best of luck, not that I think you'll need much!
2
I'm from rural Illinois and this article really touched me. I'm now planning to move to the north side of Chicago. Take that you east and west-coast liberals!
1
If you want to fight the opioids epidemic, a move to Stamford CT, home of Perdue Pharma or Washington DC, the home of Perdue's congressional enablers would have made more sense.
17
While Mr. Vance's efforts to combat the heroin crisis are laudable, I would submit that, in many ways, Columbus has more a lot more in common with the San Francisco Bay Area than it does with, say, Athens County, Ohio. Columbus may be geographically closer, but it is a vibrant capitol city which leans left politically and has lots of good paying university, government, and private sector jobs that rely upon intellectual capital. In other words, Mr. Vance is moving from a pocket of West coast liberal, new economy prosperity to a...pocket of Midwest liberal, new economy prosperity.
Mr. Vance, your efforts would resonate much more if you decided to take up residence in one of the "hollows" from whence you came and that you write about so vividly in your interesting book. Alas, we all know why that will never happen: because those places are really and truly awful. And contrary to the paeans by today's conservatives about such places representing "real America," in fact the right doesn't want to do what it takes to help people in those places (like, say, pay more in taxes in order to extend Medicaid coverage to the sick and old). In fact, conservatives want nothing to do with the voters in such places except to milk the resentment and bigotry festering there for votes at election time.
Mr. Vance, your efforts would resonate much more if you decided to take up residence in one of the "hollows" from whence you came and that you write about so vividly in your interesting book. Alas, we all know why that will never happen: because those places are really and truly awful. And contrary to the paeans by today's conservatives about such places representing "real America," in fact the right doesn't want to do what it takes to help people in those places (like, say, pay more in taxes in order to extend Medicaid coverage to the sick and old). In fact, conservatives want nothing to do with the voters in such places except to milk the resentment and bigotry festering there for votes at election time.
26
I have some sympathy for their plight, but when a majority of people in these circumstances don't believe in the theory of evolution or believe that the world is 6000 years old then I don't have much sympathy for the fact that they often vote in a manner that's counter to their best interests. its easy to see why these people are locked into lives and locations they cant escape.
21
Allen, how different are your beliefs from those of your parents? Most of us struggle to think in ways too different from the families, neighbors, and communities in which we are raised.
And to pick on the word "believe", whether in biological evolution or fundamentalist creation, someone who believes in either, without the technical knowledge and deep logic required for independent understanding and acceptance, has likely inherited a similar shallow level of knowledge.
And to pick on the word "believe", whether in biological evolution or fundamentalist creation, someone who believes in either, without the technical knowledge and deep logic required for independent understanding and acceptance, has likely inherited a similar shallow level of knowledge.
1
I work for a large Bay Area corporation and the majority of our workers are scattered across the country, some in areas with very low housing costs. The motivation to return home may for many be a purely economic one. Why pay Silicon Valley rents when you can make the same salary living near family in the rust belt. Perhaps my company is an outlier but I see very little reason career-wise to work at HQ when my boss, boss's boss and all my internal and external customers are scattered across all 50 states from Maine to Hawaii.
12
I spend a goodly amount of time in Eastern Kentucky (Appalachia), and after reading Mr. Vance's article, two sayings I've heard repeatedly in the region come to mind: 1) "Want to get a date in _____ County? Just put a bottle of pills in your pocket and give it a shake." And 2) "The smart kids show up for graduation with a suitcase at their side." Some of these bright and motivated students do return after college, but most don't. It doesn't matter if they have a degree in Marketing, Finance, one of the S.T.E.M. disciplines, or anything else, there are virtually no jobs for them in the region. And I doubt there ever will be.
13
When WW II ended the federal government did not want to repeat what happened after WW I. Thousands of GI's came home after the first war and flooded the labor marketplace. Resulting unemployment led to riots, particularly when their bonuses were "delayed".
After WW II the government created the GI Bill. GI's could get into college with the US picking up the bill. Also, GI's could get subsidized loans to buy homes, which led to tremendous home building. Both programs prevented mass unemployment and investments that paid off over time.
Among many changes in American society these two created astounding social changes.
First, GI's moved away from family and moved to the newly created suburbs - the Levittowns.
Second, jobs were created for un- and semi-skilled Whites. No riots, the growth of unions, and rising economic prosperity.
However, Grandma babysitting, family Sunday dinners, and moral and family monetary support waned. The old socioeconomic order was upended. On balance it was a win-win.
The US needs a plan to reintroduce those kind of policies - a domestic Marshall Plan for those, seventy years later, still stuck by geography and education. For the price of a couple of fighter jets a down and out town could get trade schools and create real opportunities for those stuck in a J.D. Vance world.
After WW II the government created the GI Bill. GI's could get into college with the US picking up the bill. Also, GI's could get subsidized loans to buy homes, which led to tremendous home building. Both programs prevented mass unemployment and investments that paid off over time.
Among many changes in American society these two created astounding social changes.
First, GI's moved away from family and moved to the newly created suburbs - the Levittowns.
Second, jobs were created for un- and semi-skilled Whites. No riots, the growth of unions, and rising economic prosperity.
However, Grandma babysitting, family Sunday dinners, and moral and family monetary support waned. The old socioeconomic order was upended. On balance it was a win-win.
The US needs a plan to reintroduce those kind of policies - a domestic Marshall Plan for those, seventy years later, still stuck by geography and education. For the price of a couple of fighter jets a down and out town could get trade schools and create real opportunities for those stuck in a J.D. Vance world.
13
Mr Vance is obviously a very intelligent man who was fortunate to make it to the Ivy League and a very successful life. Most people who are blessed with above average intelligence are able to do that. I read his book and must say I am somewhat mystified why it has become such a best seller. Essentially a story of one very dysfunctional family that likely could be found in most locations. My wife and I both grew up in rural Northern Minnesota, moved after College and lived Chicago and London. Most of my high school classmates also moved and most have done pretty well. Many of those who stayed have also done ok even though there are limited opportunities. My opinion of many of those described by Vance basically wallow in self pity and simply were unwilling to adjust when the world changed. They were willing to believe the lies of a fraud even though most rely on some sort of government programs. They will now get what they voted for and it is difficult to have much sympathy. Perhaps when things get bad enough they will finally realize a Republican vote is not in their best interest and government is us not the enemy.
34
I've lived and traveled all over the USA and the world, and I did eventually return home. But since home is Fairfield County CT, I am regularly reviled as elitist by people who seem very content living off my tax dollars. My liberalism is being slowly eroded.
7
These stories of individual efforts is what makes this country great. The politicians in Washington are just a joke. They care nothing about their constituents. They only care about being reelected! Mitch McConnell is the perfect example of a political who cared nothing for the people, only stated goal was to thwart our President Obama!
You do know that more of your tax dollars go to red states than to people in your own state, right? CT is one of those areas reviled by red states, yet you pay more in federal taxes than you receive less back from the federal government. Meanwhile, red states grab more in federal taxes than they pay.
If you don't know that, then Google "federal taxation and spending by state." Or, to make it easy on yourself, make it "blue states pay taxes, red states recieve benefits." Same results.
It's been true for decades.
If you don't know that, then Google "federal taxation and spending by state." Or, to make it easy on yourself, make it "blue states pay taxes, red states recieve benefits." Same results.
It's been true for decades.
1
You must be referring to Southern Appalachia and my state of Tennessee.
While my liberalism isn't eroding, I certainly concur with your sentiment, and don't think of you as elitist at all. Many of us down here in TN are fighting to raise our own revenue so that we are no longer so dependent on the federal trough and instead become a revenue-producing state like CT.
While my liberalism isn't eroding, I certainly concur with your sentiment, and don't think of you as elitist at all. Many of us down here in TN are fighting to raise our own revenue so that we are no longer so dependent on the federal trough and instead become a revenue-producing state like CT.
2
"Of course not every town can or should be saved." A large dollup of hubris in this sentence and some simple minded analysis in this article.
Do you really think your professor has summed up everything about small towns and the role of colleges and higher education in one sentence? Better think through the long duration of all the little colleges in the little towns in Ohio when you return. I have no idea about the little towns in California but you should be a little more curious about the little towns in the Midwest once you move back. Who is actually living there and why -- i suspect there are layers of life that you do not detect because they are not in your demographic.
And by the way, Columbus is much bigger and more diverse than it used to be, and far more complex that i suspect you realized at age 19. It hardly qualifies as a place plagued by brain drain and I am certain you will find appropriately rich educational opportunities for your family.
Do you really think your professor has summed up everything about small towns and the role of colleges and higher education in one sentence? Better think through the long duration of all the little colleges in the little towns in Ohio when you return. I have no idea about the little towns in California but you should be a little more curious about the little towns in the Midwest once you move back. Who is actually living there and why -- i suspect there are layers of life that you do not detect because they are not in your demographic.
And by the way, Columbus is much bigger and more diverse than it used to be, and far more complex that i suspect you realized at age 19. It hardly qualifies as a place plagued by brain drain and I am certain you will find appropriately rich educational opportunities for your family.
6
How wonderful that the new health care bill -- if it ever passes -- will cut funding for programs to help those addicted to strong painkillers. That means that now there's room for people like Vance to move back "home" and start foundations to help people with a drug addiction. Job opportunities will abound! But will I move back to my white, Trump-loving hometown? No way. I'll take Baltimore any day over that. And, no, I don't have a gun. In the meantime, good luck to Vance. He doesn't mention having any credentials to help people with substance abuse, so I don't know how that's going to work.
13
I read Vance's book. When I was finished I was so thankful that my dirt poor, uneducated, parochial, immigrant Scots-Irish ancestors got off the boat where they did- in Boston,
19
Interesting that your article contains NO attacks on Trump or on Republicans. Only thought.
Hope the editorial board can take a page from your book!
And thanks for this article. Community goes beyond food and shelter and (our very expensive) health care.
Hope the editorial board can take a page from your book!
And thanks for this article. Community goes beyond food and shelter and (our very expensive) health care.
4
At age 22, I left my home town, Niagara Falls, NY, for a career in the Air Force as a newly commissioned officer. I never returned except to visit family and friends. The Falls are, to my mind, the most spectacularly beautiful sight in North America. The region was one of the world's birthplaces of electro-chemical industry, thanks to the power generated by the waterfalls. WW2 were boom times as there were nearly two dozen major chemical plants in operation. Now, they are mostly gone, leaving their ugly rusting skeletons behind, along with such delights as the Love Canal.
I had 12 major location shifts in the Air Force, and lived in, not merely visited NYC, Atlanta, Boston, DC, Saigon, Omaha, St Louis, Montgomery AL, and Seattle. I have been in beautiful Seattle for the past 40 years. I lived in the segregated South, and the Great Plains. I am in Seattle by choice. Liberal, educated, affluent, scenic and secular. Who could ask for anything more?
If we want a united country, bring back mandatory military service for all citizens, no deferments. Otherwise, we are a nation of strangers.
I had 12 major location shifts in the Air Force, and lived in, not merely visited NYC, Atlanta, Boston, DC, Saigon, Omaha, St Louis, Montgomery AL, and Seattle. I have been in beautiful Seattle for the past 40 years. I lived in the segregated South, and the Great Plains. I am in Seattle by choice. Liberal, educated, affluent, scenic and secular. Who could ask for anything more?
If we want a united country, bring back mandatory military service for all citizens, no deferments. Otherwise, we are a nation of strangers.
18
I think a 2 year mandatory national service for 18 year olds, not necessarily military in nature, would benefit the nation, most 18 year olds, particularly males, and help for a more tolerant and informed electorate, far from the stratified parochialism of now.,
1
And if not in a military branch, at least some sort of conscripted regimental service, preferably out of each person's home geography and comfort zone.
2
I really hope more young people decide to move to "flyover country." Small cities and towns in Trump country could use an injection of ambitious and optimistic transplants. Millennials, please consider the opportunities: cheaper housing, small towns thirsting for a locally-owned brew pub, mostly friendly people, and the chance to flip a red district to purple or even blue over time.
Local brew pubs are the best indicator of up and coming towns. They are a magnet for others with an entrepreneurial vision. And they provide a perfect place for liberals and conservatives to share a beer and conversation or just a place to watch the basketball playoffs.
Local brew pubs are the best indicator of up and coming towns. They are a magnet for others with an entrepreneurial vision. And they provide a perfect place for liberals and conservatives to share a beer and conversation or just a place to watch the basketball playoffs.
7
@Betsy from Oakland Maybe some of those millennials could even learn some fly over values about self sufficiency, personal responsibility, and common courtesy. If Middlebury college is any harbinger of coastal millennial values and behaviors, there is valuable education to be had in flyover land.
My hat's off to you Mr Vance. For your service, past and future.
My hat's off to you Mr Vance. For your service, past and future.
2
...but You Can't Go Home Again, J.D. I hope your neighbors don't mistake Hillbilly Elegy for Libya Hill, but there are, of course, parallels of perception.
1
I hope you're also working to keep the ACA going, considering that it provides treatment for opiod addiction and insurance coverage to millions who will lose their coverage if the current administration succeeds in destroying it.
19
So you are moving home, and your wife has to leave hers? Your roots are very he most important ones?
10
Slightly off topic. The conversation that has enfolded below out of this piece has been one of the best NYT Comments discussions in recent memory. Reveals a lot of wisdom about our nation and society from a lot of good people. Thank you.
12
Years ago, we bought a house in a shiny, high-income, rarified city. We just barely squeaked in, and it wasn't in one of the highly desireable neighborhoods (which we couldn't afford), but it was a decent neighborhood. But we tired of the city - the traffic, the rarified atmosphere, the wealth, and the fact we still couldn't access the best parts of the city on foot or by bus. We wanted some land. So we decided to move to a less expensive location. Our city house had appreciated and we sold it for an amount that we would not be able to afford to pay ourselves if we were buying it. So it was a one-way ride out of the shiny city, to a lower status, lower cost location. It was a weird feeling. I don't regret it, but, truthfully, sometimes I do. Though I often wonder - what is the true value of what we gave up - all that super-shiny statusy opportunity? In our new location (sort of near Tacoma) we have strong community. That's worth a lot. But it is a weird feeling knowing we can never go back to all the advantages of one of the wealthiest cities in the US.
8
Sheesh, you could have just sent out those change-of-address cards you get at the Post Office.
9
J. D.: Don't you know that you cannot mention Charles Murray in the NYT, other than to say he is a racist?
5
It seems that we are supposed to feel sorry for folks "left behind" because of their lack of education or technical expertise. A man from West Virginia appearing recently on national news seems to represent the group--his family had been mining coal for generations (and all probably died horrible deaths) but he felt that he had a right as a high school dropout to demand that coal mining continue to provide him good-paying work. That is not the world we live in. The proud ignorance, the anti-intellectualism, and the resentment of people who did finish high school and college, and more, is appalling. As is the resentment of minorities and immigrants and refugees for taking jobs that don't exist any more. I'm sorry, but the culture of such places hardly seems to warrant attention.
19
The culture of every place warrants attention; cultures are merely reflections of the people who populate them, and people should never be dismissed or abandoned. As someone who grew up in a rural region, traveled widely and returned to a (comparatively) urban area in my state, I understand the impatience with people whose views are very often offensive to those of us fortunate enough to have been able to obtain education, to travel, to live in higher-cost zip codes, and so forth. But these people are not a caricature; they are every bit as intelligent and aware as people elsewhere. Very often, they've been encouraged, even manipulated, to hold attitudes or beliefs we find deplorable, but that just shows how important it is that people with advanced degrees and well-stamped passports not retreat to their progressive bubbles. I teach composition and rhetoric to community college students from rural, working-class backgrounds, along with the blue-collar city kids. They all need exposure to literature, art, philosophy, etc.--along with job training. If we ignore people who hunt and fish and listen to country music and like to go to the gun range and who live in un-glamorous places like Trinity, NC, or Yreka, CA, or Dickinson, ND, they're not going to change, they're not going to start voting for Democrats in national elections, and their worst attitudes will just be reinforced. These people aren't bad or stupid--they're just not us.
2
Leaving home in search of oneself, and then coming back after many years of 'exile' is the oldest storyline, across many cultures, from the Odyssey, to the Mahabharatha, to Tatooine to the Dagobah system.
It is the human condition, we only continue to live it.
It is the human condition, we only continue to live it.
8
Vance writes: But those of us who are lucky enough to choose where we live would do well to ask ourselves, as part of that calculation, whether the choices we make for ourselves are necessarily the best for our home communities — and for the country.
Isn't this something that applies to all of us, regardless if we have moved 5, 50, or 500 miles from home? Thinking critically and strategically - or not, meeting obligations - or not, living by the Golden Rule - or not, all can impact our communities in ways large and small. Viewing the world as abundant with promising possibilities, or, with a sense of aggrievement, can become a self-fulfilling prophesy. Aren't we all beholden to ourselves and each other to recognize our choices and actions have an impact at a micro and macro level?
Isn't this something that applies to all of us, regardless if we have moved 5, 50, or 500 miles from home? Thinking critically and strategically - or not, meeting obligations - or not, living by the Golden Rule - or not, all can impact our communities in ways large and small. Viewing the world as abundant with promising possibilities, or, with a sense of aggrievement, can become a self-fulfilling prophesy. Aren't we all beholden to ourselves and each other to recognize our choices and actions have an impact at a micro and macro level?
8
Hey J.D. Welcome home.
6
The brain drain from rural to dynamic urban areas is real, and we liberals who supported the Clintons' elitist trade policies (not to mention their unwillingness to support unions, inability to construct a passable health care policy in an era when it could have had bipartisan support, enthusiasm for expanding prisons, and ending welfare) are partly responsible for the decline and death of rural America. But we should realize that the arguments Vance makes are also applicable to immigration. By opening our doors so widely to the best and brightest of the third world, we deepen their impoverishment. The best way to encourage people to stay home and build their own countries would be sensible immigration restrictions combined with massive foreign aid--especially to those countries U.S. military interventions have devastated. Are the Trumpistas willing to do that? Or are they planning even more disastrous military adventures with the hugely expanded Defense budget?
6
Vance is the author of Hillbilly Elegy, which has topped the NY Times bestseller list for soem time. He has the means, now, to live where he wants and to do what he wants. I think what he's basically saying is that it hurts to see the small towns surrounding Columbus (he grew up in one of them) and throughout his home state succumb to the opioid epidemic, and he wants to try to do something about it. I agree with the many posters here about Trump and the disastrous policies or lack thereof that he proposes, including replacing Obamacare with DoNotCare. But I admire Vance's commitment to return to Ohio to try to stem the tide of this drug epidemic, undoubtedly using his resources and insider knowledge of having grown up in a town not far from Columbus. I wish him well.
7
Sounds like he's gearing up for a run for political office...Senate in the next few years?
5
I found your thoughtful book important to the discussion of our cultural divide. Then I saw your tweet on Meryl Streep's passionate comments and your tweet dismissed the content and your focus was to label her as elitist concerning her statement of film as an art form. I am disappointed that you didn't comment on valid points she made and chose such a trivial detail. It is admirable that you are returning to your roots, but as someone who is respected and whose opinion is sought, you bear a responsibility to be truthful and to move the discussion, rather than to write what appeals to the Republican base, where elitist and liberal are the new dirty words. When did it become abhorrent to use critical thinking skills and to care about other people? Current policies are going to further destroy the working class. It is my hope that when you return that you write about policies that will help the community.
17
Human events are non-linear. It's just a question of time (not much) until Ohio becomes a magnet (precisely because it will be "underpopulated" and "cheap").
1
What is "home." anyway?
6
Like many of his ‘librull’ critics, I have ‘points to score’ in my evaluation of J.D. Vance and his book (which I HAVE read),
But, while he seems naïve (as in: given to platitudes, name-dropping and an aversion to offending any living person), I DO believe that he is a sincere and well-intentioned young man...a ‘work in progress’ and NOT a partisan hack.
I wish him continued success and am interested to learn how his ‘world view’ evolves over these next few years...wherever he chooses to live.
But, while he seems naïve (as in: given to platitudes, name-dropping and an aversion to offending any living person), I DO believe that he is a sincere and well-intentioned young man...a ‘work in progress’ and NOT a partisan hack.
I wish him continued success and am interested to learn how his ‘world view’ evolves over these next few years...wherever he chooses to live.
5
Good luck to you, JD. I greatly enjoyed reading your book, and it was very enlightening. Your heart is in the right place. I wish you success.
"I’m founding an organization to combat Ohio’s opioid epidemic."
http://sidneydailynews.com/news/66942/vance-ready-to-battle-opioid-crisis
Vance Ready to Battle Opioid crisis: "On Thursday, the 32-year-old Vance was the featured speaker at the Shelby County Republican Central Committee Lincoln Day dinner at the Palazzo in Botkins. ...He is in the early stages of creating Our Ohio Renewal, a nonprofit organization 'to work on battling the opioid crisis and bringing durable capital to the region'.
Mr. Vance forgot to mention that "durable capital" part in this column. Just a guess, but I think Mr. Vance selected Columbus, Ohio rather than Jackson, Kentucky, where he also lived and frequently cites (and is being ravaged by opioids) because of that "durable capital" part of the equation.
Hint to Mr. Vance: Opioid addiction is not going to go away/be treated because of plans like you cite of Ms. Vitori Kimener, who is planning, according to the Middletown-area newspaper Journal-News (via Google): "...Gracie’s, an 'upscale comfort food-type restaurant' named after Vitori’s grandmother. Also in the early stages of planning are a wellness and yoga studio and an indoor children’s play place, plus 1,000 square feet of “ready-to-go” retail space." Are these really the types of businesses needed to revitalize a manufacturing area and provide employment - and thus combat opioids, too?
http://sidneydailynews.com/news/66942/vance-ready-to-battle-opioid-crisis
Vance Ready to Battle Opioid crisis: "On Thursday, the 32-year-old Vance was the featured speaker at the Shelby County Republican Central Committee Lincoln Day dinner at the Palazzo in Botkins. ...He is in the early stages of creating Our Ohio Renewal, a nonprofit organization 'to work on battling the opioid crisis and bringing durable capital to the region'.
Mr. Vance forgot to mention that "durable capital" part in this column. Just a guess, but I think Mr. Vance selected Columbus, Ohio rather than Jackson, Kentucky, where he also lived and frequently cites (and is being ravaged by opioids) because of that "durable capital" part of the equation.
Hint to Mr. Vance: Opioid addiction is not going to go away/be treated because of plans like you cite of Ms. Vitori Kimener, who is planning, according to the Middletown-area newspaper Journal-News (via Google): "...Gracie’s, an 'upscale comfort food-type restaurant' named after Vitori’s grandmother. Also in the early stages of planning are a wellness and yoga studio and an indoor children’s play place, plus 1,000 square feet of “ready-to-go” retail space." Are these really the types of businesses needed to revitalize a manufacturing area and provide employment - and thus combat opioids, too?
11
After reading the book, I wondered if these people had access to Planned Parenthood. I called Kasich's office and was told that he had "spoken out against it".
Perhaps J.D. Vance can enlighten him.
Perhaps J.D. Vance can enlighten him.
19
Columbus, Ohio? And you travel a lot? Columbus is a large, progressive, financially robust city. How is that even remotely similar to living in a remote, rural, poverty-stricken area? I don't mean to criticize, but frankly, I don't see the point.
20
Completely agree. Columbus is home of a major university, corporate headquarters and the state's capital. Great major city.
Not exactly a struggling small town.
Not exactly a struggling small town.
2
Moving out or traveling to other areas of the US is more important. I've met so many people who never left their local area and do not realize that there are viable views other than their own out there.
8
A note on the rise of so-called "Super ZIPS". Blame it on the crumbling of public school education quality. People who want to get ahead demand high quality education for their children. ZIP codes with bad public schools are to be avoided, or at least the public schools are to be avoided by sending little Johnny or Mary to a private school. But the better alternative is to move into a ZIP code where one finds high quality public school education, low crime rates, and stable housing values. Work where you must, live where you like.
5
Such compassion from my progressive friends. The smugness and contempt of some of these commentators reveals more about the writers than the validity of the arguments they are trying to make. I know an idyllic college town in Vermont you'd just love. Congratulations JD on your courageous move and commitment to community. Shame on the rest of you.
9
Most of us need go back only two generations to be found using an outhouse, so I don't know where anyone gets off making fun of folks trained to suffer for a living. We treat circus animals better.
yes, just like the compassion that Ryan and agent orange is showing with their new health care bill- throwing the poor and elderly under the bus for tax cuts to themselves... nice!
I'll take the smug elitists, thank you very much.
I'll take the smug elitists, thank you very much.
3
........there's only one little problem with your assessment - Mr. Vance did not move back to his roots - that's a holler in Kentucky. He moved to an educated bustling city that is home to the Ohio State University. If he was honest, he'd have moved back to Middletown (a dying town) where he was raised.
9
Columbus isn't really a small town.
But I applaud the author's commitment to community values.
But I applaud the author's commitment to community values.
7
He's balancing his own family's security against those who he hopes to serve, and that sounds sane. I wouldn't have my child live where there is no healthcare, either. But that is also a noble goal.
1
I am an international aid worker who has spent over 27 years living and traveling abroad. I just spent four months working in North Dakota - my first time ever in a flyover state. I was shocked to find a militarized, racist police force collaborating in step with the Energy Transfer Corporation to build the Dakota Access Pipeline. I was disappointed to meet ordinary North Dakotans who believed fake news and held highly racist and misinformed opinions about Barack Obama and the peaceful protest going on in Standing Rock. I was mortified when a native friend of mine was seriously assaulted at a gas station in the capital of Bismarck while he was called "prairie nigger" and "wagon burner." The police officers who took the accident report asked him what he was doing in ND when they saw his New Mexico driver's license, and the security tapes where never pulled to convict the assailants. I met local farmers who refused to sell me straw because I was from out of state and they thought I was helping the natives. I met christian church goers who just wanted all the outsiders to leave so their insulated lives could return to normal. I spent over $20,000 at a local construction supply store only to have the warehouse workers refuse to load my truck because I was an indian lover.
I have to say I feel more at home, and have more things in common with my colleagues in Kenya, Uganda, Ghana, Haiti, Colombia, and India.
Sorry, but no thanks. I'll take globalization any day.
I have to say I feel more at home, and have more things in common with my colleagues in Kenya, Uganda, Ghana, Haiti, Colombia, and India.
Sorry, but no thanks. I'll take globalization any day.
86
"...And the dream that our mind had sketched in haste
Shall others continue, but never complete.
For none upon earth can achieve his scheme;
The best as the worst are futile here:
We wake at the self-made point of the dream-
All is here begun and finished elsewhere..."
Victor Hugo--Early Love Revisited
Aye, dude, as a fellow said in earlier comments- You Can't Go Home Again. In fact, you can hardly go back to that place you escaped to from home in your youth, a double whammy!
But one thing's for sure, we don't need no stinkin' opioids. Only the old timers knew how to handle those. And they all died young.
Shall others continue, but never complete.
For none upon earth can achieve his scheme;
The best as the worst are futile here:
We wake at the self-made point of the dream-
All is here begun and finished elsewhere..."
Victor Hugo--Early Love Revisited
Aye, dude, as a fellow said in earlier comments- You Can't Go Home Again. In fact, you can hardly go back to that place you escaped to from home in your youth, a double whammy!
But one thing's for sure, we don't need no stinkin' opioids. Only the old timers knew how to handle those. And they all died young.
5
Well, J.D., welcome back. And ignore the many snarky comments on here, I've learned long ago that commenters to the NY Times tend to be mean-spirited elitists who can't imagine leaving San Jose or Brooklyn for fear their biases might be challenged.
I suggest you connect with Jim Fallows at The Atlantic, who along with his wife have been doing some very good and interesting reporting on the rebirth of America in places like Columbus. Sure, the election was a setback, but until the Dems learn that they can't ignore working people (including those Enemies of the People, white men...) these things will happen. In the meantime, the parts of America that the Times ignores are getting along. We could sure use some help with the opioids, though.
I suggest you connect with Jim Fallows at The Atlantic, who along with his wife have been doing some very good and interesting reporting on the rebirth of America in places like Columbus. Sure, the election was a setback, but until the Dems learn that they can't ignore working people (including those Enemies of the People, white men...) these things will happen. In the meantime, the parts of America that the Times ignores are getting along. We could sure use some help with the opioids, though.
11
Lets be real here:It's called" The New York Times" and it is located on the West side of Manhattan to serve New York. And, I was not aware the paper "ignores,... parts of America". I think it more likely true that "parts of America" ignore New York, the Enlightenment,and progressive educated tolerance for those who do not resemble local native population(excluding Native Americans of course). That is the real parochialism at work behind the rise of an ignorant hate mongering demagogue like trump.
9
Buckeye Hillbilly, I am sorry that your reading of this Comments section has left you with such negative impressions of the commenters. My own perception here and reading comments in the Washington Post is that the political war of words on both sides is ugly indeed -- that is on both sides. I think it got worse as Trump's candidacy took off. Clearly, this divide among was a precursor of The Trump Catastrophe. Along with the economic divide, this is one of our mighty challenges. J.D. Vance's return to his roots represents one way for us to break down the bubbles, the stereotyping, scapegoating and disrespect among us. Buckeye, we are not all the same.
3
@Buckeye Hillbilly: If you truly believe "those Enemies of the People" are "white men", then your thinking is part of the problem (making white men a martyr doesn't prove anything). No one, including democrats, hate white men. But they do dislike racist/ignorant white women, black women, black men, and even orange-haired white old men -- these people don't see their own backward ideas have held them back. They invariably blame others.
As to the "opioid" problem ravaging middle-America, do you see that even your language of drugs is racist? Black druggies used "crack". White druggies use "opioids". No: crack is an opioid. And they're all druggies. Don't be afraid. The black inner-city dealt with it. When they had crack, racist white people wanted them locked-up, instead of treated. Now that the tables have turned, and some of those white racists are druggies... the same treatment will help them (both black and white druggies): Socialized medicine. Social programs do work.
So either vote for socialized medicine, or tell the druggies to move away from the desolate places they live in. At the back of their mind, they know their lives are stuck -- that's why they use drugs to escape. Tell them honestly: instead of escaping with drugs, go and really escape (move) to a better place.
Don't fool yourselves that "small town America" is such a great place. Some places truly are, but others truly aren't.
Move to a "city" and initially if you have to, work at ANY job you can.
As to the "opioid" problem ravaging middle-America, do you see that even your language of drugs is racist? Black druggies used "crack". White druggies use "opioids". No: crack is an opioid. And they're all druggies. Don't be afraid. The black inner-city dealt with it. When they had crack, racist white people wanted them locked-up, instead of treated. Now that the tables have turned, and some of those white racists are druggies... the same treatment will help them (both black and white druggies): Socialized medicine. Social programs do work.
So either vote for socialized medicine, or tell the druggies to move away from the desolate places they live in. At the back of their mind, they know their lives are stuck -- that's why they use drugs to escape. Tell them honestly: instead of escaping with drugs, go and really escape (move) to a better place.
Don't fool yourselves that "small town America" is such a great place. Some places truly are, but others truly aren't.
Move to a "city" and initially if you have to, work at ANY job you can.
1
I drove from Detroit to Knoxville last year, and, not having satellite radio in my car, had to listen to rabid right-wing radio from Toledo to Columbus. That's the Ohio that scares me. Columbus is like every thriving University town, an island of sanity, complete with an NPR station.
38
misterarthur: If you are going to base your opinion of an entire state on the rantings you heard on one right-wing radio talk show, then you are apparently as narrow-minded as the people you say you fear!
1
Some thoughts: This is the history of the world. Leaving a place with few opportunities for a better life. Eventually people may return to the 'hollowed' out areas for another way of life, gentrification or younger start ups. NEVER to recapture the past, nor to save those left behind.
Helping people with opioid addiction is a wonderful goal. And surely they exist in large numbers in areas with few opportunities. But you are going where the action is for YOUR WORK. Not to save a dying are.
No one returns willingly to a place with no hope and no opportunities. That is perhaps for the Mother Theresa's of the world. But not for those who want a life of achievement and a sense of purpose, that comes from more than serving the poor.
You are moving home because it makes sense for your work, your research or your sense of purpose.
Good luck with that wicked weather, by the way.
Helping people with opioid addiction is a wonderful goal. And surely they exist in large numbers in areas with few opportunities. But you are going where the action is for YOUR WORK. Not to save a dying are.
No one returns willingly to a place with no hope and no opportunities. That is perhaps for the Mother Theresa's of the world. But not for those who want a life of achievement and a sense of purpose, that comes from more than serving the poor.
You are moving home because it makes sense for your work, your research or your sense of purpose.
Good luck with that wicked weather, by the way.
11
Ug- Columbus is a cultural wasteland, full of football zombies who flock en masse to the plague of shopping malls whenever they have a free moment. There is nothing there. Better to have gone home to Middletown. At least you'd meet some real people there.
2
Whether our politics are left, center or right, snarky comments accomplish little other than demeaning others.
3
Columbus is a highly educated college town, and has little in common with Appalachia.
19
Having lived in both places, you are absolutely correct.
4
Be prepared to be resented. Here's the response if you go back to your small town, not a city: Oh, so you go off and have your elite life, then come back and try to "help" people as if you are somehow better than us now? Who do you think you are?
And your wife had better be prepared to be resented. One single comment about something being different back home in CA and she'll be written off an an insufferable snob. Oh, so sorry we don't have $7 mochalatteccappufrappawhatsis for you, your highness. Around here real people drink plain coffee and like it!
Have fun.
And your wife had better be prepared to be resented. One single comment about something being different back home in CA and she'll be written off an an insufferable snob. Oh, so sorry we don't have $7 mochalatteccappufrappawhatsis for you, your highness. Around here real people drink plain coffee and like it!
Have fun.
7
An interesting and well researched read on this subject is "The Big Sort" by Bill Bishop. He lived in Austin, Texas at that time... that was once a great little town....with a unique University and diverse population. Not so much now...
I hope your plans for an opioid treatment program were not prematurely hatched as the ACA replacement will probably not be supporting addiction treatment.
10
Vance: "I’m founding an organization to combat Ohio’s opioid epidemic."
Where is the money for that "organization" coming from?
Where is the money for that "organization" coming from?
10
Good God, the man's been on the best seller list for a year! That and his access to media can fund just about anything he wants.
1
Conservatives are always talking about taking personal responsibility. But too often, it seems, they're talking about people who are not like themselves. When you say your friend had to ask you if the Clinton pedophilia conspiracy is true because they read it on Facebook, perhaps this person needs to take some personal responsibility for how and where they source their news. And their own shocking inability to know the difference between, well, let's just say, a bodily excretion and Shinola. Their gullibility and their susceptibility to an obvious liar and scam artist who has exploited their ignorance and fear has sent the entire country and world on a cruel and dangerous course.
28
This kind name-calling of people you (and I) disagree with is just the kind of discourse that drives us apart. Let's quit blaming the victims -- people who responded to Trump's assurances he would make their lives better, just before he began the process of robbing us all. Conservatives divide and conquer us by telling struggling white folks that we "libruls" want to take from them (the hardworking conservatives) and give to undeserving Others (capitalized to include everyone not like them). The less sympathetic we are to those who have been snookered by Trump and Faux News the more the duped people will blame US for their plight. A better approach would be to find common ground with our fellow Americans.
2
After civilizing Columbus, Vance should move to Chapel Hill, where he can mix with all the rural North Carolinians who voted for Trump. Then Austin, to sort out Texas.
6
Isn't this called gentrification?
7
Why’s everyone hating on J.D. for moving to Columbus? He’s returning to the best geographical, political and financial community in Ohio to continue his work started in California. Ohio is ground zero for the opioid crisis and is only getting worse…“More Americans now die of overdoses than died of AIDS at the peak of that epidemic.”(Atul Gawande: The Annals of Surgery) Also it’ll be better for the family when his wife Usha Chilukuri Vance begins her clerkship at SCOTUS with Chief Justice John Roberts for the October 2017 term. And where better to start his pursuit for political office: ‘“So I will say I’m not running for office right now, which is true,” he says, finishing his martini. “But it’s sort of dishonest and, sort of, like, cagey.” So in other words, stay tuned.’(WaPo: Feb.6)
8
CAN YOU GO HOME AGAIN? The writer is idealistic and brave. Trying to turn the tide of opioid overdoses and deaths is a brutal business. In countries like Portugal and places in the US like Seattle WA where they have adopted programs of harm reduction, progress is possible. But without such flexibility, the prognosis for those struggling with opioid addiction in the US anywhere are grim. Asking people on welfare to use their scarce resources to purchase opioid antidotes even at the cost of $1 each is exploitive of those who would help the less fortunate. At least reimburse the antidote givers for the overdose antidotes. The number of opioid deaths last year were in the range of deaths by firearms and from traffic accidents. All three lethal problems can be addressed successfully if there is the poitical will. Right now we're witnessing a dangerous, unhinged power vacuum at the top. Godspeed to the writer and his family.
4
This is framed as a feel good piece but I suspect it is a segue to Mr Vance's political career. Just as I felt after finishing his book, I am left wondering, "What's his point?".
14
There is a corollary to the notion of bright, optimistic young people leaving small towns for better prospects, and that is the "Walmart effect". The notion that WM caused local retailers to go under, and book superstores and then Amazon caused the demise of local bookshops is well known, but there is more. Corporate banks swallowed up community banks, family farms collectivized into behemoth industrial farms, mines and small manufacturers were bought up.....in all these cases, the local wealth was sucked up first to bigger cities, then to the biggest cities on the coasts far away. The people who owned the local bank, the local hardware store, the machine shop, were leaders in their communities with a stake in the future of their town. Corporatization has left behind towns with no wealth, few "middle jobs", and few local leaders. No wonder they struggle.
31
"in all these cases, the local wealth was sucked up first to bigger cities, then to the biggest cities on the coasts far away."
Yes, except you left out the last step ... "and then to off-shore bank accounts."
Yes, except you left out the last step ... "and then to off-shore bank accounts."
3
I live in Windsor Terrace, Brooklyn. I wish all the people from Ohio would go home. Maybe then my son would be able to afford an apartment.
11
Your son could afford not just an apartment, but a beautiful 4-bedroom house, if HE moved to Ohio! I grew up in NYC but will take the Midwest any day.
4
Born and lived in Brooklyn New York until I was 13
Lived in Dade County Florida until 19
lived in Ponce Puerto Rico until I was 25
Lived in Southern New Jersey until I was 29
Have lived in Charlotte, NC until the present. (66)
I'm looking for somewhere else. I wouldn't live in any of the past places ever.
The NC coast is calling me.
Lived in Dade County Florida until 19
lived in Ponce Puerto Rico until I was 25
Lived in Southern New Jersey until I was 29
Have lived in Charlotte, NC until the present. (66)
I'm looking for somewhere else. I wouldn't live in any of the past places ever.
The NC coast is calling me.
1
Anne, NA, Socrates- stop with the hate. If you know of Mr Vance, or read his book, you understand that he isn't going to Columbus for it's nightlife, but for it's proximity to Appalachian Ohio.
Face it- you can't handle an educated rational person who can actually understand why Trump won this election. It's your issue, not his.
Face it- you can't handle an educated rational person who can actually understand why Trump won this election. It's your issue, not his.
6
Johnny- calm down.
Vance is not the only "educated" person who understands why Trump won.
On the contrary. It is so obvius:
Masterful (unprecedented) manipulation of social media; catnip personality for the press; ability to lie like a rug; appeal to the collective limbric brain.
Vance is not the only "educated" person who understands why Trump won.
On the contrary. It is so obvius:
Masterful (unprecedented) manipulation of social media; catnip personality for the press; ability to lie like a rug; appeal to the collective limbric brain.
3
Understanding why Trump won this past election isn't difficult; coming to terms with what it says about a country that was designed to function on a foundation of Enlightenment-era principles is more challenging. Enabling wilful ignorance, regardless of geography, is cancerous to the Republic.
2
The original Socrates of Plato's dialogues did not indulge in hate.
Just like truth-in-advertising laws, isn't there a truth-in-headline law? He's not moving home!
5
The NYT is challenged in that dept. Headlines not very accurate.
I think they compose headlines based on some internecine editors' cabal theory.
I think they compose headlines based on some internecine editors' cabal theory.
3
I've read his book and several articles about Mr. Vance, and sorry but I'm suspicious that he is also looking for the right place to launch his political career. I do not think that California is ideal for him. Nothing wrong with that, but be honest about it.
3
Well, this piece certainly resonates with me: I just moved back to my small Ohio town after 17 years in NYC. You are going to be really happy with your decision, Mr. Vance. I am so happy to be home.
3
IF only the US of A had the socio-economic mobility of ...say, Sweden !
Without some transition to the modern, the rural midwest will remain backward. Backward in terms of cultural and social awareness ...and nobody wants to live in that sort of state.
Without some transition to the modern, the rural midwest will remain backward. Backward in terms of cultural and social awareness ...and nobody wants to live in that sort of state.
1
I grew up in small town/Cincinnati suburb Ohio and know that going to Columbus is not returning to rural Ohio. Columbus is a city that prospers from government, great university and the knowledge industry that's grown up around it. It's a far cry from the Appalachian foothills of southern Ohio poisoned by the opioid epidemic. I can't see how moving to Columbus is going to help,the Hillsboros and Chillicothes and Middletowns and Irontons.
7
Okay, J.D. Vance, now that you have made your pile, you say you are going to help the poor in rural America. We'll be back to Ohio in a year or two to see what you have accomplished--if you are still there.
6
Mr. Vance, your intent is commendable even if Columbus is hardly rural.
I just wonder about your wife -- where was she in this decision?
How did you convince her to move to Columbus, OH?
I, for one, would have picked San Diego as the "home" to return to.
I just wonder about your wife -- where was she in this decision?
How did you convince her to move to Columbus, OH?
I, for one, would have picked San Diego as the "home" to return to.
5
Well...maybe they decided they would rather live in a nice house than a tiny apartment, and to pay less for it.
1
Lucky thing your friend didn't want to make wedding cakes for gay weddings in Indiana! Part of why people move isn't the money -- it's to get away from families who've driven them away, or otherwise closed minds. Sometimes it's a matter of choice, but sometimes it's literally life and death. You do not address this at all.
16
I have enjoyed Vance's writing and find his commentary enlightening BUT Columbus, Ohio, has been named the best US city I which to work and raise a family. I don't know what organization bestowed this honor but a friend working and raising a family in Columbus was quite happy about this acknowledgement. So, Vance's move to Columbus is a marvelous opportunity for him and his family, rather than the fulfillment of some sort of duty.
4
Every morning I drive past this billboard:
#sucede
Somehow I can't imagine this being attractive to those looking to relocate.
Same thing when you go to Walmart and see people toting guns around like they are in a war zone.
I don't mock any of these people although I certainly don't agree with such ideas or actions. But I don't know that I've heard Vance say much about how unwelcome these things make outsiders feel.
#sucede
Somehow I can't imagine this being attractive to those looking to relocate.
Same thing when you go to Walmart and see people toting guns around like they are in a war zone.
I don't mock any of these people although I certainly don't agree with such ideas or actions. But I don't know that I've heard Vance say much about how unwelcome these things make outsiders feel.
12
In 1978 I interviewed for an engineering position in Ohio. Having grown up in California it was like going back in time. Nice folks but when the interviewer asked me if I was "one of them women's libbers type" I concluded there was a place for everyone but Ohio probably wasn't the place for me. Lol.
I wish you well and hope you can make a difference.
I wish you well and hope you can make a difference.
19
Comments like these exemplify the widening cultural divide in the US, and the ignorance of people who think they are actually the enlightened ones. Judge an entire state based on your experience with one person? Isn't that what defines prejudice?
2
Reading the much-overrated Hillbilly Elegy I said to myself, "this guy's a politician." His ending flourish here about "what's best for our home communities - and for the country" is a stock campaign speech. Ohioans, expect a campaign flyer in your mail slot soon.
7
The Republicans under George W. Bush pushed through Medicare Part D so that everybody could get all the drugs they want or need. That was a disastrous decision for our Nation! All Prescription Drugs are possible poisons and have side effects, some of them dangerous, the Naturopath will tell you. Giving people drugs like this is so horrible for them. I am 76 and take NO drugs whatsoever, not even an aspirin! Stop taking prescription drugs, people. Those of you who can. This thing of insurance paying for drugs is a huge mistake of major proportions! Let food be your medicine. Foods have powerful healing abilities!!!!
2
I find it difficult to take seriously any article that approvingly quotes Charles Murray.
9
An afterthought to my first submission. File this and then get back to work.
Go home to Seekonk MA. No municipal sewage system, no public transportation. Move into a home with an oil burner or natural gas burner. No six to seven day a week high level recycling? Not the greatest mobile phone or internet system either. No trains to take me to Albany or Burlington or Saco in reasonable time. Busses that are like relics from the past.
Are you kidding?
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen - US SE
Go home to Seekonk MA. No municipal sewage system, no public transportation. Move into a home with an oil burner or natural gas burner. No six to seven day a week high level recycling? Not the greatest mobile phone or internet system either. No trains to take me to Albany or Burlington or Saco in reasonable time. Busses that are like relics from the past.
Are you kidding?
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen - US SE
5
Your problem is you don't want to be part of the solution, and that makes you part of the problem. If smart people don't plunge in and help make change, it won't happen.
@ Eyes Open - San Francisco - I am not sure I understand your reply and I am not sure you understand my situation. I have lived in Sweden 21 years, 20 of them consecutive and as a dual citizen simply point out what other dual citizens have pointed out, that the US is no longer first in all too many categories.
I have been "plunging in" for the past 3 years, filing 100s of comments suggesting to my fellow Americans and to the Times what they and it could be doing as concerns:
1) Renewable and sustainable energy
2) The archaic system used by the US Census Bureau to classify us Americans.
Briefly as concerns 1: I beg the Times to provide articles about renewable energy technologies little used in the US. The Times refuses even to mention them. I therefore ask comment readers to tell me how they heat and cool their homes. Rarely do they answer but if they tell me oil or natural gas, I ask "Have you looked into better technology, Ground-source geothermal heat-pump and several other different forms of heat pump technology." The best answer came from Oregon from a reader who told me and readers: We installed ground-source geothermal to heat and cool our home. Our annual costs dropped dramatically. GSG should be required by law at all new homes."
Will be happy to go further if you visit my blog and then get my Gmail there and write.
Thanks for replying.
Larry L - writing from a home heated by Sweden's standard fjärrvärme system. Out of characters.
I have been "plunging in" for the past 3 years, filing 100s of comments suggesting to my fellow Americans and to the Times what they and it could be doing as concerns:
1) Renewable and sustainable energy
2) The archaic system used by the US Census Bureau to classify us Americans.
Briefly as concerns 1: I beg the Times to provide articles about renewable energy technologies little used in the US. The Times refuses even to mention them. I therefore ask comment readers to tell me how they heat and cool their homes. Rarely do they answer but if they tell me oil or natural gas, I ask "Have you looked into better technology, Ground-source geothermal heat-pump and several other different forms of heat pump technology." The best answer came from Oregon from a reader who told me and readers: We installed ground-source geothermal to heat and cool our home. Our annual costs dropped dramatically. GSG should be required by law at all new homes."
Will be happy to go further if you visit my blog and then get my Gmail there and write.
Thanks for replying.
Larry L - writing from a home heated by Sweden's standard fjärrvärme system. Out of characters.
@ myself - as often happens in comment land, one files a comment and hours later and added thought or self reply. The later one appears and maybe the first one referred to here never does.
Here not so important.
Here not so important.
Men!! Vance smugly congratulates himself on returning to Ohio while mentioning in passing that his California-born wife may have to deal with a change in weather. In other words, she needs to abandon her home state because he wants to (sentimentally) re-attach himself to an urbanized version of HIS home state.
11
There are zip codes where divorce is rare? Do tell
6
I love this story, because it reinforces the thoughts I have had for the past handful of years.
After recently reading a book that was 1st printed in 80's, 'Small Is Better', it brought into focus for me all these thoughts and concerns I have had for so long.
Call me a traditionalist, because I believe in 'traditional American values & culture'.
The idea that 'BIG' seems to be the prototype for 21st life!
I like the idea of small, as in smaller government, closer to home!
I like the idea of small, as in small business, who locate in smaller communities across our country, and have a connection and responsibility to those communities.
I like the idea of small, as in people living in smaller communities, like Columbus,
rather than hordes of people cramming into BIG CITIES!
I like the idea of smaller neighborhoods, where people actually know their neighbors and live and work and socialize together, maybe even helping each other rather than relying of government programs for help.
Yes, I like small, and I like the idea of 'social engineering' to allow small communities to become 'integrated communities', so there is not this balkanization, where 'super zip codes' predominate.
And I like the idea that we are 'one American people', 'one American culture, a melting pot of diversity from a multitude of ethnic groups, not this idea of America as 'Multi-Cultural'!
Multi-cultural is exactly what we don't need! Let's return to 'the melting pot
that made American Great.
After recently reading a book that was 1st printed in 80's, 'Small Is Better', it brought into focus for me all these thoughts and concerns I have had for so long.
Call me a traditionalist, because I believe in 'traditional American values & culture'.
The idea that 'BIG' seems to be the prototype for 21st life!
I like the idea of small, as in smaller government, closer to home!
I like the idea of small, as in small business, who locate in smaller communities across our country, and have a connection and responsibility to those communities.
I like the idea of small, as in people living in smaller communities, like Columbus,
rather than hordes of people cramming into BIG CITIES!
I like the idea of smaller neighborhoods, where people actually know their neighbors and live and work and socialize together, maybe even helping each other rather than relying of government programs for help.
Yes, I like small, and I like the idea of 'social engineering' to allow small communities to become 'integrated communities', so there is not this balkanization, where 'super zip codes' predominate.
And I like the idea that we are 'one American people', 'one American culture, a melting pot of diversity from a multitude of ethnic groups, not this idea of America as 'Multi-Cultural'!
Multi-cultural is exactly what we don't need! Let's return to 'the melting pot
that made American Great.
1
There is a brilliant book by Lewis Mumford about the ideal city. I forget the title.
Basically European common sense. Smallish (1/2/ mil) cities uniformly spread out, surrounded by farmland. Duh.
Basically European common sense. Smallish (1/2/ mil) cities uniformly spread out, surrounded by farmland. Duh.
I'm not sure I understand your point. The idea of a "melting pot" is that the end product is bursting with different flavors that creates a unique whole. It's not about watering-down the different cultures that make up our citizenry and ending up with a uniform, but blander product. Of course, everyone must work together toward a common good as ALL nations aspire to do, but what makes American so unique and so wonderful IS its multi-culturalism!
2
I am smiling - in my part of the country a population of >850,000 (Columbus, OH population) definitely qualifies as a BIG CITY! not a "smaller community". And tomorrow Americans across the country will celebrate St. Patricks Day, even though most of them aren't Irish at all (note to the "real" Irish among you: you know it's Lent, right? So it's fish and chips for you, me boys! and none of that corned beef!) - isn't this multi-cultural? I do live in a small community (at least by your standards; here we are considered a small city), and I love Cinco De Mayo celebrations as much as St. Paddy's Day. I love the Nigerian nun's accent and her amazing smile and the Argentinian priest's soccer skills. We are a melting pot of diversity, which means that I am enriched by the new people who enter my community, even as they assimilate here.
2
Another issue living in a small town is lack of a hospital large enough to attract and support physicians who specialize in areas of medicine and surgery where people with all kinds of health needs can get good care. Did you know there are eye doctors who specialize in conditions of the retina? I didn't, until I was diagnosed with a burst blood vessel in the retina.
Having a population large enough to support trauma surgeons is vital, too. I hear helicopters often bringing patients in from afar who have life threatening injuries.
There is nothing wrong with making choices that benefit you and your family. Sorry, but life is much more complex now, and smart people make intelligent calculated decisions.
Having a population large enough to support trauma surgeons is vital, too. I hear helicopters often bringing patients in from afar who have life threatening injuries.
There is nothing wrong with making choices that benefit you and your family. Sorry, but life is much more complex now, and smart people make intelligent calculated decisions.
4
Vance apparently sees himself as some sort of noble figure, bringing civilization and culture to the savages. A thoroughly arrogant, elitist attitude consistent with what we'd expect from one of the self-styled intellectual class.
Those of us who are about to be the "beneficiaries" of his largess see it as something different; perhaps a cesspool overflowing and despoiling the surrounding landscape.
Unfortunately, Vance isn't unique. In many, if not most, areas of the country, the human locusts trying to escape from their toxic urban environments have polluted once desirable rural areas. Escapes from New York's crime, stress, and cost of living have slowly but surely brought their poor manners, lack of ethics, and trashy behaviors into the once pleasant environs of upper New York state and lower New Jersey.
The fact is that, Vance, we definitely don't need you, and we really don't want you moving back into our neighborhoods. Unfortunately, most of us are too polite to tell it to your face, so you'll probably come anyway. And as soon as you get here, you'll start demanding that everyone change to suit your idea of what "good" is, and before you know it, you'll have turned what was once a nice town into another Progressive garbage dump.
Do us all a favor, and stay right where you're at. That way, you can continue to consider yourself intellectually superior, and we won't have to put up with your insufferable arrogance.
Those of us who are about to be the "beneficiaries" of his largess see it as something different; perhaps a cesspool overflowing and despoiling the surrounding landscape.
Unfortunately, Vance isn't unique. In many, if not most, areas of the country, the human locusts trying to escape from their toxic urban environments have polluted once desirable rural areas. Escapes from New York's crime, stress, and cost of living have slowly but surely brought their poor manners, lack of ethics, and trashy behaviors into the once pleasant environs of upper New York state and lower New Jersey.
The fact is that, Vance, we definitely don't need you, and we really don't want you moving back into our neighborhoods. Unfortunately, most of us are too polite to tell it to your face, so you'll probably come anyway. And as soon as you get here, you'll start demanding that everyone change to suit your idea of what "good" is, and before you know it, you'll have turned what was once a nice town into another Progressive garbage dump.
Do us all a favor, and stay right where you're at. That way, you can continue to consider yourself intellectually superior, and we won't have to put up with your insufferable arrogance.
6
Statistically, people are continuing to flock to the bigger cities, not move to more rural areas. However, fact-based evidence that a Progressive influx to an area has a very positive effect, bringing jobs, amenities and improved property values. Perhaps it's your attitude that prevents you from recognizing these truths.
3
"Another Progressive garbage dump"? Vance is a self identified "conservative". You own him whether you want to or not.
4
Oh I think you're being more than a bit harsh. Skills, broad perspective, and experience elsewhere is of great value. Grasping tightly to provincial ways that have only led to disaster is hardly a solution to the miseries of where you live.
I have only one concern: I think we spend far too much energy as a society on
ideas, opinions, customs, and "politics." If we don't start caring for the environment, all our pathetic human vanities will be nothing, zip, nada.
I have only one concern: I think we spend far too much energy as a society on
ideas, opinions, customs, and "politics." If we don't start caring for the environment, all our pathetic human vanities will be nothing, zip, nada.
1
Dear NYT: Publishing self-promotional campaign ads (this feels like he's trying out tropes for 2018/20) from this guy (who, interestingly enough, works for a Peter Thiel VC/hedge fund), is not a substitute for hearing from actual voices who are actually still connected to struggling parts of America.
17
Are you suggesting that people who wish to use their time, talents and material wealth to revitalize the mid-west (even perhaps in a political role) shouldn't be acknowledged by the press? Why wouldn't you want to welcome anyone with the desire and means to try and make things better there and encourage others to do so as well?
3
Mr. Vance, energetic young people leave their home towns not just for better opportunities elsewhere. In a sense, they are pushed out as they react to the backward thinking and parochial prejudices that fester in so many places. Arriving in more cosmopolitan locales feels for many like breathing freely for the first time. Do they get homesick sometimes? Of course. But how many want to go back? I imagine that your choice of residence in Columbus will be in a pleasant neighborhood among well-educated people. Maybe it will even be a super zip. And you'll also likely have a nice smooth and safe ride to the airport as you enjoy the luxury of often flying out of town.
16
Columbus OH is hardly small town Appalachia. Almost a million people live there. It has one of the largest, best universities in the world.
10
True, but it's certainly not the cultural, economic and innovative industry mecca that Silicon Valley or San Diego is. Not to mention the incredible variety of natural beauty, numerous national parks, and the near-perfect weather. I can't imagine voluntarily leaving such a place.
2
Vance has nothing new to offer here. He's using his prominence to gain access to the Times' pages for one purpose: to congratulate himself on moving back to Ohio.
11
Shucks, J. D. You are turning into a community organizer, just like that other smart young thing who went to a spiffy school and could have stayed in the big leagues and made beaucoup bucks. Barack Obama.
I'm proud of you. I'll be even prouder of you if you decide to run for public office as an independent. This political polarization forces extreme choices that don't support the public interest in the long term. We are all progressive on some things, moderate on some things, and conservative on some things.
I'm proud of you. I'll be even prouder of you if you decide to run for public office as an independent. This political polarization forces extreme choices that don't support the public interest in the long term. We are all progressive on some things, moderate on some things, and conservative on some things.
10
well said. extremism is not our friend.
3
Hahaha! Is the cartoon beneath the headline a representation of the Columbus skyline (Yes, there is one!) paired with a residential neighborhood street (with smokestacks in between)?
Just asking: looks like the best of both worlds to me!
Just asking: looks like the best of both worlds to me!
Yes, you can tell the rural voters that now they have all the freedom in the world to die of sickness from lack of healthcare, joblessness from lack of education and freedom to breathe dirty air and drink filthy water.
Hope you are all enjoying your new found freedom.
Hope you are all enjoying your new found freedom.
6
"... brain drain encourages a uniquely modern form of cultural detachment. Eventually, the young people who’ve moved out marry — typically to partners with similar economic prospects. They raise children in increasingly segregated neighborhoods, giving rise to something the conservative scholar Charles Murray calls “super ZIPs.” These super ZIPs are veritable bastions of opportunity and optimism, places where divorce and joblessness are rare."
Cultural Detachment is the new Segregation.
Cultural Detachment is the new Segregation.
3
Oh my, a missionary. Of course Columbus is hardly Upper Tract, you'll be fine.
1
Bye JD. You dont deserve to live in California--you shouldnt get to live under our protections. Go live where they have the policies you support!
3
There was a reason you left your home: Lack of opportunity for what inspired you. Call it "poor soil in which to grow". It is not your role to question what your forebears left you; it is your role to react to it. You left based on that awareness.
Now you are back as some younger person's forebear, to try to make it a better place to live. Good on you! And, to answer your implicit question, you could not have done this had you stayed. It is, in fact, better for your home community that you both left and returned, primed to do what your forebears didn't or couldn't. Not all will make that same choice, nor should. The brain drain will persist. However, you may spark a movement and draw others. Artists moving to Baltimore, Kansas City, and Cincinnati have been doing just that.
Now you are back as some younger person's forebear, to try to make it a better place to live. Good on you! And, to answer your implicit question, you could not have done this had you stayed. It is, in fact, better for your home community that you both left and returned, primed to do what your forebears didn't or couldn't. Not all will make that same choice, nor should. The brain drain will persist. However, you may spark a movement and draw others. Artists moving to Baltimore, Kansas City, and Cincinnati have been doing just that.
2
Oh why, oh why, oh why-o, why did I ever leave Ohio?
4
Interesting, but Columbus, or even Ohio, is NOT Kansas. ( I'm from Dayton.). And the brain drain??? Well, the greatest majority of new college graduates move out. At least those that didn't " major " in bible studies, or similar. Thanks to Brownback and minions, the sun is definitely NOT shining on Kansas. My husband, an engineer, accepted a job with a local aircraft company almost 20 years ago. Very few of the nearly hired engineers, over the years, stay more than a year, or two. Their wives refuse to stay. In my time here, it's gone from " different" and quirky to nearly intolerable. We are just trying to last a few more years until retirement, then move out, for good. Within 10 more years, the only people left here will be those too old, sick or poor to leave. And of course, the kids. Thanks to Brownback, education has gone from generally average or even good in some areas, to abysmal. As in extreme budget starvation, for years.
I would never advise anyone to move here. Probably only 10 percent of residents are from elsewhere. Most people have NEVER lived anywhere else, except for military service. This is the epitome of an insular, self- perpetuating culture. Without the electronic devices and T.V. ( invariably, FOX 24/7 EVERYWHERE) this could be 50 years ago. And that's just the way they want it. When everyone knew their place. And the greatest arbiter of any social, economic or political question was the local
" preacher".
I would never advise anyone to move here. Probably only 10 percent of residents are from elsewhere. Most people have NEVER lived anywhere else, except for military service. This is the epitome of an insular, self- perpetuating culture. Without the electronic devices and T.V. ( invariably, FOX 24/7 EVERYWHERE) this could be 50 years ago. And that's just the way they want it. When everyone knew their place. And the greatest arbiter of any social, economic or political question was the local
" preacher".
19
I am sorry to hear of your plight. Life in Kansas sounds appalling and suffocating.
5
There are so many beautiful, immaculately-kept old Victorian houses in Kansas that can be bought for twenty to fifty percent of what they would cost in the coastal states. It's always so tempting to consider buying one of them. But then I think of the culture, the weather, the flat landscape and finding decent health care and I just can't do it. I wish a bunch of starving artists and quirky bohemians would pick a smaller US town to move to and revitalize. I'd follow them in a heartbeat.
2
Thanks! Vacation to Seattle, next month. Only way I can survive. Hope to retire there. Husband loves it, too. My HAPPY place.
3
Wow, I wish I could move home! I'm a New Jerseyan heart and soul but there was no way I was ever going to be able to afford a home there. My childhood post-war home (1200 sq feet) is selling for a million plus. Some of us moved to find affordability.
5
Brilliant! You speak for oh, so many!
3
The U.S. contributes to this brain drain around the world. We want all the smartest people here and what matters to the country they leave behind, who cares? So, it's not just in the U.S. but world-wide as well.
4
Yes, please go back, Mr. Vance, and take a close-up look at the consequences of Trump's policies for people who, like you, voted for him.
8
Dear, the policies that have screwed the country started under Regan.
4
People with schizophrenia are often said to have had a break from reality. Often times after having lived in the real and the unreal world, they choose the unreal world.
1
Enjoyed your book, but came away with the impression that your "home" was in the mountains of Appalachia, Kentucky to be exact...not Columbus. I don't believe you'll find what you're looking for in Columbus....might need to move south a ways.
1
Can you ever really go back, though? What you will bring is change, and, my guess is that most people who never left don't want that--or they don't want the same things that you do. My first thought when I started reading this was, Isn't that what gentrification is? But maybe it's worse when it's one of your own coming back to say you know better. I hope the author chronicles what he finds in going back.
GOOD LORD!
JD - you speak as though you were moving back to Middletown or to McConnellsville.
Columbus, as several have pointed out, is a cosmopolitian city that I would rank with any that I visit - and that is a lot. This is like saying you want to experience the rural New England life by moving to Boston. I won't spend a lot of electrons pointing out why Columbus is great, obviously you know because you are moving there instead of Chillicothe, Athens, McConnellsville.....
JD - you speak as though you were moving back to Middletown or to McConnellsville.
Columbus, as several have pointed out, is a cosmopolitian city that I would rank with any that I visit - and that is a lot. This is like saying you want to experience the rural New England life by moving to Boston. I won't spend a lot of electrons pointing out why Columbus is great, obviously you know because you are moving there instead of Chillicothe, Athens, McConnellsville.....
6
Columbus isn't really home, though. Is it, Mr.Vance?
3
His book is brilliant.
So honest.
It is a peek under the petticoat of America.
He describes well what the sees.
I take my hat off to him.
We have nobody like him in modern Australia.
So honest.
It is a peek under the petticoat of America.
He describes well what the sees.
I take my hat off to him.
We have nobody like him in modern Australia.
My hometown is Manhattan. Can't go back there. Tried rural life -- too isolated. Found Charlottesville, VA. Perfect small city. Sometimes you have to define your needs and go looking for a new home.
3
"I've heard ugly words uttered about 'flyover country'...."
Such as? (Any that The Times can print?) Aside from 'flyover country' itself I never hear another example. As an Amtrak fan I'd never use the term myself, and as a gay guy (and childhood Ohio resident), I appreciate long distance Amtrak trips because I get to see the inland and southern states without having to deal much with the scary, gay-hating inhabitants. Are those "ugly words" or just an accurate description?
Such as? (Any that The Times can print?) Aside from 'flyover country' itself I never hear another example. As an Amtrak fan I'd never use the term myself, and as a gay guy (and childhood Ohio resident), I appreciate long distance Amtrak trips because I get to see the inland and southern states without having to deal much with the scary, gay-hating inhabitants. Are those "ugly words" or just an accurate description?
4
Umm.....Columbus, Ohio: Population is over 2 million.
If that is rural America, come to Northern Wisconsin and talk about living in a small Trump lovin' town.
If that is rural America, come to Northern Wisconsin and talk about living in a small Trump lovin' town.
5
Sorry, no sympathy. All we've heard from those "flyover" places of the county is how horrible those of us on the coasts are, that we are "Socialists" and "elitists" and love saddam and terrorists....and mostly that they want to be left alone by us (even as our taxes go to supporting them more than we get back and were the ones to finally get them some health insurance via the ACA) with the final insult being their giving us and even themselves the nightmare that is Donald Trump. How much sympathy are we to have for people who are told, "Coal jobs are disappearing, so we will give you training so you can work in innovative energy industries" but hear only, "We are going to take your coal jobs away from you!", or are told to hear only that and go out and repeat it, never bothering to actually get he quote themselves? They want to be left alone; they want to be saved by government; they want us to "understand" them....
Since Reagan, we have put up with those areas of the country routinely voting against their own economic interests and giving us Reaganomics (trickle-down, which is their real problem) and Bush and Cheney, and now this depraved, demented man. They want to be left alone? No government help? Fine. Give we liberal states our taxes back, and pull yourselves up by your bootstraps. But don't pull a muscle, because you're about to lose your Obama-given health insurance.
Since Reagan, we have put up with those areas of the country routinely voting against their own economic interests and giving us Reaganomics (trickle-down, which is their real problem) and Bush and Cheney, and now this depraved, demented man. They want to be left alone? No government help? Fine. Give we liberal states our taxes back, and pull yourselves up by your bootstraps. But don't pull a muscle, because you're about to lose your Obama-given health insurance.
8
Vance: "I’m founding an organization to combat Ohio’s opioid epidemic."
What you are doing, Mr. Vance, is very admirable, and am hoping you have great success in making a difference in the lives of Ohio citizens. Hope you get a lot of help from many charitable folks willing to part with their money, since you will likely have to depend on philanthropy, rather than any government funds, to support your efforts.
If you have any doubt about that, take a look at Paul Ryan's proposed health care legislation and the proposed budget of the Republican administration.
What you are doing, Mr. Vance, is very admirable, and am hoping you have great success in making a difference in the lives of Ohio citizens. Hope you get a lot of help from many charitable folks willing to part with their money, since you will likely have to depend on philanthropy, rather than any government funds, to support your efforts.
If you have any doubt about that, take a look at Paul Ryan's proposed health care legislation and the proposed budget of the Republican administration.
3
there is not an equivalence between tasteless elite jokes about "flyover country" and bizarre stories about the Clintons running a pedophilia ring. Informed people do not get their news from people they know. They get their news from news sources, the old fashioned way. And I don't mean right or left wing online sites.
15
I hope this works for you. Years ago, in another life, I returned to my "home town" and it turned out to be one of the worst things, for ME, that I ever did. I did all the things you do, home-ownership, country club membe, active in church, Rotary Club, blah, blah, yada, yada, but once the kids fled to college we moved. I only returned when family, still there, was dying. What does that say? About me? And the place? Part of it has to be that, as my Grandmother always said, "These Yorkers would vote for the Devil, as long as there is an "R" behind his name. They did when I lived there and hey did 8 November 2016.
10
I hope the dual appearances of this piece and Edsall's column on White poverty and isolation signal a trend at the Times toward greater attention to economic inequality, in addition to the usual Times focus on the travails of women, non-white males and the tiny number of trans gendered (estimated at about a million). Edsall's focus on paid parental leave as a cause of male dysfunction seems absurd, but at least the subject is rationally addressed.
I don't expect the Times to seriously reduce its dedication to the usual cast of complainers, but perhaps the attacks on "flyover country voters" as Neanderthal racists could be accompanied by more sympathetic or analytical columns such as these. Blow and Bruni, especially, have become relentlessly repetitive and narrow. Consider cutting them to once a week columns and write longer magazine pieces for their pay. Replace them with "flyover folks" such as Vance. Digital circulation means broadening your range beyond the Northeast. This is a way to do so. And to up your game from just op-Ed whining among your regulars. Cable TV does that just fine.
I don't expect the Times to seriously reduce its dedication to the usual cast of complainers, but perhaps the attacks on "flyover country voters" as Neanderthal racists could be accompanied by more sympathetic or analytical columns such as these. Blow and Bruni, especially, have become relentlessly repetitive and narrow. Consider cutting them to once a week columns and write longer magazine pieces for their pay. Replace them with "flyover folks" such as Vance. Digital circulation means broadening your range beyond the Northeast. This is a way to do so. And to up your game from just op-Ed whining among your regulars. Cable TV does that just fine.
2
My husband's acute awareness of his place in the world even pervades his dreams. In them he knows what direction he faces by the warmth of the sun on his body. His innate compass and this rootedness in place is what brought us from the SF Bay area back to NE Ohio.
I was a gypsy, able to thrive anywhere. For my husband, like the mythological giant Antaeus, whose unconquerable strength came from touching the ground, living on the soil that nurtured him makes him whole.
The limitations of people (even family) in the area are disturbing yet do not rob him of the greater riches of being where generations of family before him thrived and he "belongs".
I do not have such feelings, however, it is awesome to witness the power of place.
I was a gypsy, able to thrive anywhere. For my husband, like the mythological giant Antaeus, whose unconquerable strength came from touching the ground, living on the soil that nurtured him makes him whole.
The limitations of people (even family) in the area are disturbing yet do not rob him of the greater riches of being where generations of family before him thrived and he "belongs".
I do not have such feelings, however, it is awesome to witness the power of place.
8
I would have liked to have seen him tell the friend that no there was no pedophilia ring and the reaction--I don't like the leaving that out there. To me you have to give someone something to strive, love and live for to combat drugs. For me, as a teen, in a drug culture, it was art, museums, and trains. The budget for all of that is being cut. But it's not something some of the hardest hit opiod places have ever had in their schools. The budget should be being raised for that stuff, not cut.
35
I live about 25 minutes away from Newton, Iowa, Charles Murray's hometown. Ever wonder why he doesn't live there? Or why it isn't a super ZIP? The town relied on one company, Maytag, that supported a whole community. Managers and workers lived on the same streets. When Maytag decided to leave the U.S. for cheaper workers elsewhere, Newton was left high and dry. What are Iowa politicians doing to help small town residents like the struggling folks in Newton? This year, they're working on stand-your-ground gun laws, cutting school budgets, dismantling local water quality control, closing mental health services centers, and banning collective bargaining. Being "hit hard by manufacturing losses" is not a natural disaster. It's a political disaster that results from political choices.
75
Good luck Mr. Vance. I was born and raised in Canton, Ohio, and attended OSU for four years in the 70's. The intervening years have been spent largely in California, and subsequent trips to visit relatives in Ohio have left me both saddened and flabbergasted. I think you will find from a cultural and social perspective that the people in Ohio are as hard as the Buckeye they all so adamantly follow, and your new fangled ideas are going to be as welcome as tofu and soy milk on a Sunday morning. Last time I visited I finally gave in. We visited the local diner where I was served a six egg omelet with gravy and biscuits. When I gasped at the portions, one of my cousins simply said, "oh yea, mom said you were all idiots in California."
34
Ok, I'm a little tired of readers mocking people from "flyover country." To characterize an entire state, with a population of 11 million people, as "hard as the Buckeye they all so adamantly follow" is narrow-minded and pretentious. Isn't narrow-mindedness one of those traits you coastal types despise? If your cousin is a dead-eyed hilljack, perhaps you should blame that on your family - not the mentality of an entire state. I have a master's degree. My mom and dad both voted for Hillary Clinton. My mom's neighbor is a French professor who spends every summer in France. My boyfriend is an art professor. We're not all covered in gravy and wielding pitchforks. And not all conservative people are bad people - some are friendlier than your neighbors in Sacramento, I promise.
1
Moving "back home" to Columbus, Ohio ain't such a big deal. It's not exactly like Vance is moving back to a depressed area or something. Columbus is thriving and it is quite cosmopolitan. I always wondered at the fact that Vance achieved such cachet as a self-described "hillbilly" when, in fact, he grew up in Middletown, Ohio which is not exactly a term one associates with that term.
28
How do we get people to consider the bigger good of what's best for a town, state or country over what they perceive as best for them as an individual? That would require a change in the American mindset. But, if JD is doing it and writing and talking about it, maybe it will inspire others.
6
To take one example, I'd wager that the vast majority of people who supported, and still support, the ACA--certainly me--already had health insurance. Believe it or not, it mattered to me and to millions of other people that as many Americans as possible also have health insurance. So I and millions of other people do care about people in towns and states that are not our own, because we share one country, America. But if people in certain regions keep insisting on committing political suicide, there's not much I or anyone else can do about it.
1
I am also from Ohio, now living in Massachusetts. Ohio is on the fault line between the east and the midwest; between the north and the south. The politics on each side of the fault line follow the predictable patterns. Living in northeaster Ohio, is like living in upstate New York. Living in Cincinnati is like living in Tennessee. Columbus sits right on top of the fault line. It is a prosperous, vibrant college city, hardly rural or small town. However, my perspective is I have zero patience for the whining of the Ohio (and red state) voters who preach religion, small government, and personal responsibility. We aren't going back to the 1950s! The Donald is not a miracle worker, he is a charlatan selling fake cures. Stop the self-pity, get retrained, relocate if you have to and stop watching Faux News!
78
Vance wrote: "whether the choices we make for ourselves are necessarily the best for our home communities — and for the country." Where in this age of rampant individualism do we find community-centered citizens?
9
Well certainly not in the Republican party.
1
If the Times wants to study the working class and educational migration, it can look a few miles west of Manhattan. Not all of New Jersey consists of "super ZIPs" like Montclair and Ridgewood. My relatives voted for Christie and Trump, and they seriously talk about moving to PA and Delaware for lower taxes. All of them have better educations than I do and better than the supposedly Hillbilly author does. The issues are more cultural than geographic.
25
I left my rural hometown because I couldn't stand the climate - both the weather, and the political climate, left me cold.
Neither one is going to change in my lifetime.
Why should I freeze in hopes that they will eventually thaw?
Neither one is going to change in my lifetime.
Why should I freeze in hopes that they will eventually thaw?
47
So, the wannabe big fish has decided to try a smaller pond. The incessant self congratulation leaves me underwhelmed.
42
Ditto
1
No mention of the deliberate disinformation campaign aimed at the people like his friend who asked about the Clinton 'conspiracy'. This is the real reason we are so divided, and moving home won't help.
40
No one mentioned what he is going to do in Columbus: found an organization to combat opiod use. Astonishing omission by them. Criticism and ridicule instead. It's worth moving to Thule to leave small-minded Americans like these.
7
Too true. Read all the snarky comments of this board reveals how arrogant and dismissive many readers are.
2
Thank you for sharing your heart in this essay. I believe that love of place, home, the beauty we remember as a child, is an important feeling. It's a feeling that hardly has a name. Patriotism doesn't quite do it. But the loyalty imbedded in patriotism is part of it. I believe choosing to love a place and then investing your time and talent there is one of the unknown pleasures of life. Educated people are often discouraged from this feeling. The whole concept is counter to our economic system and values.
But there it is. Love of home is a pleasure and a virtue.
But there it is. Love of home is a pleasure and a virtue.
8
Vance did not move back to his hometown, Middleton. He moved to Columbus. A college and government town. A world of difference.
I grew up in western Ohio in the 50s. Couldn't wait to go to college and never go back home. Yes, good people but unless their ministers told them what to say and think, little original thought was forthcoming.
Three global careers later I look back and say, "what the heck happened to the American Dream?" If I learned just one thing over the past 4 decades having done business on six continents, it is this: the USA certainly does not have all the right answers - far from it.
We live in very unsettling and precarious times.
Three global careers later I look back and say, "what the heck happened to the American Dream?" If I learned just one thing over the past 4 decades having done business on six continents, it is this: the USA certainly does not have all the right answers - far from it.
We live in very unsettling and precarious times.
63
You should probably have included that they were good people as long you believed, looked, acted, dressed, and had the exactly the same shade of skin as they do.
2
We’re in our 70’s now and have moved all over the country working and raising our children. Never really gave thought to moving back to our hometown. Not even once. Long ago we had an unwritten, unspoken pact that our lives together were what life was all about.
A few years ago though we started thinking about moving back to the town we were married in, and all things considered we agreed, let’s do it. Of course there’s a little catch, we’ll do it when we cross to the other side. Thought that would be the right time to return so purchased our burial plots at the local cemetery. Hometowns are full of memories and for us good ones.
A few years ago though we started thinking about moving back to the town we were married in, and all things considered we agreed, let’s do it. Of course there’s a little catch, we’ll do it when we cross to the other side. Thought that would be the right time to return so purchased our burial plots at the local cemetery. Hometowns are full of memories and for us good ones.
20
Congratulations Mr. Vance. Ohio will be all the richer because of your return. My son also worked in Silicon Valley and his experience was much like yours, in terms of the blind optimism of the young professional transplants who are drawn to the region. He also felt, this rarefied optimism disconnects many not only from the struggles in other parts of the country, but even for those residents who have not been fortunate enough to "keep up" with the sky high cost of living. Like you, he returned home to chart his course in his more humble city of origin.
13
In addition to alleviating the brain drain and revitalizing the middle of the country, if more people move back home, perhaps the Electoral College vote will be more reflective of the popular vote.
30
I grew up in Appalachia, dirt poor, so I know what Vance writes about.
But I am extremely put off by Vance. In fact, I can't even bear his frequent TV appearances in which he spouts off stuff like an expert. No way.
This man is profiting from writing about "his people." He is returning to become a Republican politician and to line his pockets for the future by taking advantage of his newfound fame. I have no respect for that. If he weren't doing that, I'd have a little more respect for him, but it appears he's just one more guy planning to rake profits off the poor.
Unless he puts his so-called knowledge into working FOR, not against the welfare of the people he profits from, I cannot respect him. So far, he appears to be the worst - a person who will take advantage of the people he's making money off of. He's made a bundle off writing about the people, and he will rake in more by becoming a fat-cat Republican politician. Expect to see him cozying up to Trump soon and kissing Joe Manchin's well-heeled behind.
Vance nauseates me.
But I am extremely put off by Vance. In fact, I can't even bear his frequent TV appearances in which he spouts off stuff like an expert. No way.
This man is profiting from writing about "his people." He is returning to become a Republican politician and to line his pockets for the future by taking advantage of his newfound fame. I have no respect for that. If he weren't doing that, I'd have a little more respect for him, but it appears he's just one more guy planning to rake profits off the poor.
Unless he puts his so-called knowledge into working FOR, not against the welfare of the people he profits from, I cannot respect him. So far, he appears to be the worst - a person who will take advantage of the people he's making money off of. He's made a bundle off writing about the people, and he will rake in more by becoming a fat-cat Republican politician. Expect to see him cozying up to Trump soon and kissing Joe Manchin's well-heeled behind.
Vance nauseates me.
27
Columbus, as previous posters have noted, is not exactly a struggling rust belt city. To wit, it is home to The Limited, one of largest retail companies in the US and a major local employer. The Limited, along with local developers, built Easton Town Center, the paradigm for open-air lifestyle shopping centers. There one can find every price point and category, including Louis Vuitton, Tiffany and Tesla stores. Not saying Columbus does not have its share of issues, but if you want to pick a midwest city to live and raise a family, you could done a whole lot worse.
7
The Limited has closed all its stores and gone out of business.
2
First of all, Good Luck!!!! Second, I think this ship might have sailed. The move to cities started with the agricultural revolution when it was no longer necessary for everyone to be tied to the land. Third, I continue to find it hard to understand how/why (as a brown-skinned successful immigrant), i should have to relate to people who sincerely believe that Clinton was involved in a child-sex ring and who think that people like me 'should go back to where they came from' and who are quite prepared to use violence (with omni present guns) to make that happen. I am starting to turn down business travel opportunities to these places, as I actually do fear for my safety in the present climate that they have created.
But as I said at the beginning, "Good Luck!!!!
But as I said at the beginning, "Good Luck!!!!
23
I also want to understand the plight of Americans left behind in places like Camden NJ and Newark so after a lot of soul searching, I've decided to move to Princeton. It won't be easy and I'm worried about the schools. Wish me luck.
46
Tell this to those who were all but chased out of their hometowns. The queer kids, the non-conformists, the black folks, south asian Americans.... The intolerance to difference is what is sapping these areas of developing talent.
I mean, why else would they they eagerly vote for people who openly declare a need for "a homogenous civilization" (Steve King, IA).
I mean, why else would they they eagerly vote for people who openly declare a need for "a homogenous civilization" (Steve King, IA).
27
There is a real amount of dishonesty in this essay. In order to hold on to his "Hillbilly" credibility, Mr. Vance would have us believe he was moving back to home to a trailer park in an obscure hollow. Leaving the fast pace of Silicon Valley to sit on a porch smoking a corncob pipe!
In reality, he is moving to one of America's most dynamic post-industrial cities, Columbus, Ohio. Home to a massively large university, a thriving medical industry, and a vast public sector. In other words, the future. What the heck?
In reality, he is moving to one of America's most dynamic post-industrial cities, Columbus, Ohio. Home to a massively large university, a thriving medical industry, and a vast public sector. In other words, the future. What the heck?
37
It really isn't so different in big cities; it's just that there is more money for services and housing. In spite of the need for affordable housing, there is a ton of it in NYC, and families live in subsidized apartments for generations. There isn't much motivation to move when working lower paid jobs provides plenty of subsidies. I have no problem with this - I know a few people who live in such housing. But then I have a problem with them wearing $900 winter jackets. So I am scrimping and they are not. This bothers me a lot.
1
I've decided to take up the arduous and depressing task of rereading Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged. The vapid writing style and the paucity of intellectual rigor as she develops of her celebration of selfishness and hyper-individualism make this work the perfect place to begin if one wants to understand contemporary "conservatives." It's a dark world where bodily pleasures and greed are rewarding while family, community, and love lead to the downfall of society. It's a poor representation of reality and a repudiation of many conservative values.
Rand's influence on the modern-day Republican Party is such a sad paradox. There are so many who subscribe to her dark world that I'm often tempted to paint all conservatives with the Rand brush. It's wonderful to see conservatives such as Vance, Douthat, and Brooks who recognize the value of community and an individual's responsibilities to her communities.
Rand's influence on the modern-day Republican Party is such a sad paradox. There are so many who subscribe to her dark world that I'm often tempted to paint all conservatives with the Rand brush. It's wonderful to see conservatives such as Vance, Douthat, and Brooks who recognize the value of community and an individual's responsibilities to her communities.
12
I respect and admire your decision, Mr. Vance, but I believe some people in some parts of this country are resisting the inevitable. Towns that grew up near coal mines and steel factories owe their growth to families who came for the jobs but refuse to accept that those jobs are gone forever. Economic migration brought millions of people to this country. My pwn grandparents left their homes and the poverty and pogroms of Eastern Europe, seeking a chance to work and raise their children in a country where they could be free. If the mine or the factory is gone, no politician's unrealistic promises can bring them back.
15
This piece speaks to me as I've traveled all over, but consider Ohio home.
Columbus is a strong city, and it's known for being known for nothing, which is fine. I find the same situation in Cincinnati: strong, well-diversified economy, tons of Fortune 20s with a large footprint, a top children's hospital in the world. However, once you leave the the urban core of highly educated professionals and into the rural areas, it starts to get really iffy. No one wants a Kentucky license plate.
I've been to Middletown, and it is a spotty area between Cincinnati and Dayton. Lots of decimated jobs, run-down and a few nicer areas, but not much there. Good luck.
Columbus is a strong city, and it's known for being known for nothing, which is fine. I find the same situation in Cincinnati: strong, well-diversified economy, tons of Fortune 20s with a large footprint, a top children's hospital in the world. However, once you leave the the urban core of highly educated professionals and into the rural areas, it starts to get really iffy. No one wants a Kentucky license plate.
I've been to Middletown, and it is a spotty area between Cincinnati and Dayton. Lots of decimated jobs, run-down and a few nicer areas, but not much there. Good luck.
5
Columbus, OH is a vibrant, affordable city, and I wish this article did not have such a self-celebratory tone, but many of the readers here are too harsh on Vance. He is certainly conservative and intensely ambitious. But he is also a careful thinker, and the cultural decay that he writes about is real. He is not (as seems to be implied) a bigot or a conservative Christian. His wife is of Indian origin, and their wedding involved both Hindu and Christian rituals.
Give the man a chance to contribute to society in ways that are meaningful to him. This is still America -- we remain a work in progress, and there is plenty of work to do.
Give the man a chance to contribute to society in ways that are meaningful to him. This is still America -- we remain a work in progress, and there is plenty of work to do.
10
I grew up on the West Virginia Pennsylvania border, down a mile long dirt road. I worked in steel mills, where I joined the Teamsters, to earn money for an elite (Ivy) college eduction. I left. I did not return. Why? Because those small towns have decided that bigotry, xenophobia and looking backward is their future. By not welcoming all, to not opening up to the new world, they have relegated themselves to a bleaker world and a lack of opportunity. Trump stokes those fears and guarantees a downward spiral. Hatred begets hatred. Fear begets fear.
117
I loved the underlying premise of Vance's article, but moving to Columbus isn't a sacrifice. Columbus is a vibrant and diverse city with a strong economy. If Vance had chosen an economically troubled city like Toledo or Cleveland, I would have much more respect for his commitment to make a difference.
Were you supposed to go back home as a success and show those people that there is a better way to live an enlightened life? Or did your attitude toward the place you came from do a 180?
Columbus is a sun belt city in the middle of the rust belt (except without, obviously, the sun). It's an open, progressive, growing, white-collar city with a major university and a burgeoning arts scene. Sixty percent of Franklin County voters supported Hillary Clinton for president. Vance is not moving back to Appalachia. He's just moving closer.
74
I am trying to ascribe to the meeting norm we frequently invoke - assume good intention. I honestly hope Vance is going back to do some good work on the opioid crisis and not just to mount his run for Congress in a few years.
But given the cruel and inhuman budget outline released by the White House yesterday, this paragraph from his essay rings awfully hollow to my ears:
"I realized that we often frame civic responsibility in terms of government taxes and transfer payments, so that our society’s least fortunate families are able to provide basic necessities. But this focus can miss something important: that what many communities need most is not just financial support, but talent and energy and committed citizens to build viable businesses and other civic institutions."
Personally, I think most in his community would be a lot better off with government taxes and transfer payments than his energy and commitment.
But given the cruel and inhuman budget outline released by the White House yesterday, this paragraph from his essay rings awfully hollow to my ears:
"I realized that we often frame civic responsibility in terms of government taxes and transfer payments, so that our society’s least fortunate families are able to provide basic necessities. But this focus can miss something important: that what many communities need most is not just financial support, but talent and energy and committed citizens to build viable businesses and other civic institutions."
Personally, I think most in his community would be a lot better off with government taxes and transfer payments than his energy and commitment.
20
The budget outline might be cruel to the chair-warmers at the state Department and the anti-capitalists in the EPA field offices, but nothing affecting the poor seems to be affected.
Trump will turn out to be the hero for the poor worker that we all figured Mr. Obama would be - but never tried.
Trump will turn out to be the hero for the poor worker that we all figured Mr. Obama would be - but never tried.
I was moved when I read Vance's book. I feel for those who were left behind when corporate America decided it could reap more profits by leaving them behind. This is the same story for Utica, NY, Springfield, MA, Bridgeport, CT and the countless other small cities. Their local companies employed those with less than high school diplomas, and many with them, who were able to carve out a respectable life.
But they settled for mediocre schools. Those schools were incapable of ramping themselves up to prepare their students for the (then) new service and information economies. I was a teacher in the 1970s and I watched this happen in rural upstate NY. My male students, in particular, sat in class figuring they really didn't need what I was teaching because they could get a job at the many major corporations in the nearby city. Those companies, that didn't require much beyond a high school diploma, are shuttered brick dinosaurs on the urban landscape. Those teenagers I taught are now 55 and likely feel left behind. I call them "Grumps for Trump."
If Mr. Vance wants to accomplish anything, it is not only working on painkiller abuse, but also on the education of the next generation to be the future of the local economy. They need to learn to use their minds well, to think aggressively, to have goals, and to gain a sense of local pride. Corporate America, despite what comes from the White House, is not going to invest in under-educated, drug-dependent communities.
I wish him well.
But they settled for mediocre schools. Those schools were incapable of ramping themselves up to prepare their students for the (then) new service and information economies. I was a teacher in the 1970s and I watched this happen in rural upstate NY. My male students, in particular, sat in class figuring they really didn't need what I was teaching because they could get a job at the many major corporations in the nearby city. Those companies, that didn't require much beyond a high school diploma, are shuttered brick dinosaurs on the urban landscape. Those teenagers I taught are now 55 and likely feel left behind. I call them "Grumps for Trump."
If Mr. Vance wants to accomplish anything, it is not only working on painkiller abuse, but also on the education of the next generation to be the future of the local economy. They need to learn to use their minds well, to think aggressively, to have goals, and to gain a sense of local pride. Corporate America, despite what comes from the White House, is not going to invest in under-educated, drug-dependent communities.
I wish him well.
96
The educators and parents all have to look ahead to where these students are going to be in a decade.
I remember how many high schools were teaching Russian as a foreign language in the decade after Sputnik. At least they were trying. But Latin hung on a decade after Russian classes were closed out in our area.
I remember how many high schools were teaching Russian as a foreign language in the decade after Sputnik. At least they were trying. But Latin hung on a decade after Russian classes were closed out in our area.
Don't lecture me about dismissive liberal opinions of flyover country - I live there and my opinions are based on experience. I'm extremely familiar with rural Texas, where it is quite common to hear just about any problem you care to name attributed to the laziness, parasitism, poor character, and lack of discipline of unknown persons of different ethnicity living in faraway cities, a voracious enemy whose appetites for the fruits of other people's toil are joyfully satiated by empty-headed liberals who know nothing about the real world. I suspect that this sort of culturalised opinion is common in Anglo populations across the South and Appalachia, as well.
What I object to, Mr. Vance, is the idea that I am somehow wrong when I call these ignorant people ignorant. While I respect every person's right to an opinion and to express that opinion, that does not oblige me to validate that opinion simply because that person works hard, goes to church, and loves their family - especially if that person otherwise doesn't know which way is up and isn't interested in finding out - or worse, isn't interested in anything that might involve the possibility of discovering their similarity to those they are so comfortable despising.
What I object to, Mr. Vance, is the idea that I am somehow wrong when I call these ignorant people ignorant. While I respect every person's right to an opinion and to express that opinion, that does not oblige me to validate that opinion simply because that person works hard, goes to church, and loves their family - especially if that person otherwise doesn't know which way is up and isn't interested in finding out - or worse, isn't interested in anything that might involve the possibility of discovering their similarity to those they are so comfortable despising.
219
I would rebut your argument by pointing out the real culprits in your first paragraph are the politicians and "media personalities " who use those manipulative diatribes to divide us. Blaming people who are so duped is a variation on blaming the victim. I too get tired of the anti-intellectualism and accusations of elitism. But repeating the "ignorant " accusation doesn't help our cause. It just widens the division.
And don't call me somehow wrong, Mr. Bars, when I point out that your expressed attitude is the very definition of bigotry.
1
You'll find racists and bigots everywhere. Half the commenters here or at Right-wing outlets seem to be.
The Right may indeed over-react when members of the Left call out people for being ignorant. This is a trend now because it has been a Leftist habit for a generation now to reflexively denigrate all people with different opinions as ignorant, crazy, or ... you know the rest.
Once we hear liberals do this twenty times an hour, we realize that they are the fear-filled people with such poor egos that they MUST call their enemies such names just to be able to accept their situation for a minute.
This problem was made much worse lately by Democrats failing to understand why they are losing offices everywhere, especially after Hillary was assured victory by EVERY Democratic voice.
So are there bigots in flyover country? Yes, but they aren't panicking for answers when they make these judgments. Right or wrong, they're too busy anyway.
The Right may indeed over-react when members of the Left call out people for being ignorant. This is a trend now because it has been a Leftist habit for a generation now to reflexively denigrate all people with different opinions as ignorant, crazy, or ... you know the rest.
Once we hear liberals do this twenty times an hour, we realize that they are the fear-filled people with such poor egos that they MUST call their enemies such names just to be able to accept their situation for a minute.
This problem was made much worse lately by Democrats failing to understand why they are losing offices everywhere, especially after Hillary was assured victory by EVERY Democratic voice.
So are there bigots in flyover country? Yes, but they aren't panicking for answers when they make these judgments. Right or wrong, they're too busy anyway.
2
People leave rural areas not just for jobs but for wider opportunities. In some cases, smaller towns and communities don't welcome change or growth, so someone of larger ambitions is lost there or finds themselves fighting constant rearguard actions, swimming against the tide. "We don't care how you did it in the city, this is how we do it here," can be one common comment.
America circa 2017 is a new and different country from even 20 years ago. Moving is expected. The corporate imperative of move to improve is throughly set. The result is a rootlessness and a longing for a sense of home, of belonging, that, in fact, many would trade higher paying jobs for if they could get it. Once you leave the big cities, living and housing costs are much lower, so the big deal job often only winds up covering the difference.
I have lived most of my adult life around the Washington, DC, area. The other places where I put down temporary roots, California, France, Portugal never qualified as "home". I feel most relaxed, at ease, in Texas, the home of my parents and where I spent more than half my time from zero to age 22. There is something inside of my that understands the place (even while I experience intellectual/political dissonance). It is like a feedback loop telling me I belong there, even if others don't see me that way.
The message is clear: you can leave, but you always leave something behind. This is part of the story of our American lives in this age.
America circa 2017 is a new and different country from even 20 years ago. Moving is expected. The corporate imperative of move to improve is throughly set. The result is a rootlessness and a longing for a sense of home, of belonging, that, in fact, many would trade higher paying jobs for if they could get it. Once you leave the big cities, living and housing costs are much lower, so the big deal job often only winds up covering the difference.
I have lived most of my adult life around the Washington, DC, area. The other places where I put down temporary roots, California, France, Portugal never qualified as "home". I feel most relaxed, at ease, in Texas, the home of my parents and where I spent more than half my time from zero to age 22. There is something inside of my that understands the place (even while I experience intellectual/political dissonance). It is like a feedback loop telling me I belong there, even if others don't see me that way.
The message is clear: you can leave, but you always leave something behind. This is part of the story of our American lives in this age.
12
this article does not mention the most important reasons for moving out of coastal large cities back to Midwest - affordable housing and a reduction of the commute to reasonable lengths.
193
Not all areas of the Midwest offer those same advantages. The affordable housing, yes, the reduction of commute, no. Many rural communities like my own home town are near job- and food-deserts, requiring long commutes to even minimum-wage jobs, and long reverse commutes just to buy groceries (it's a 45-minute drive to anyplace with a store selling fresh produce) and other necessities of life. The cost of gasoline and the time cost of the travel negate much of the savings in housing costs.
I have had to spend a few lengthy stretches back "home" over the past few years with my aged parents and dealing with the aftermath of my father's passing. While I could continue to work in my role in technical services, my work was made more difficult due to the poor communications infrastructure and the nonproductive time I had to spend driving here and there continually.
I found that living there, even for just two or three months at a time, to be very difficult on a day-to-day basis. The disadvantages far outweigh the advantages of small-town life. The contrasts between life in my small home town and both here in the Pacific Northwest and where my in-laws live in Central Florida are stark.
I have had to spend a few lengthy stretches back "home" over the past few years with my aged parents and dealing with the aftermath of my father's passing. While I could continue to work in my role in technical services, my work was made more difficult due to the poor communications infrastructure and the nonproductive time I had to spend driving here and there continually.
I found that living there, even for just two or three months at a time, to be very difficult on a day-to-day basis. The disadvantages far outweigh the advantages of small-town life. The contrasts between life in my small home town and both here in the Pacific Northwest and where my in-laws live in Central Florida are stark.
1
yes, but we don't know if those were their primary reasons for leaving
You're assuming there are good jobs to commute to.
My family has been in my home town 170 years but my family won't be able to stay another 170 because it will be underwater. Thanks all you very nice well meaning people in flyover country. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
2
As a Columbus resident, I resent the picture this article paints of our city, that Mr. Vance is really making a sacrifice to move here. As others have said, Columbus is a growing, thriving city with lots of opportunity. I imagine Mr. Vance is choosing to move here because he knows it's a great place to live.
6
It's a place where he can make money. Period. He will be a fat-cat Republican and line his pockets there.
Vance's obvious good intentions are actually tempering my response, which wants to express disgust at the obvious the-male-is-default POV driving his assessments. Us women who have lived and worked in Silicon Valley (and Wall Street) have NOT had a lovely life full of great expectations, and your skeptical-about-Trump peers (skeptical ? about that infantile moron ?) destroyed the one society-wide payback I thought I might have in my lifetime, i.e. seeing an intelligent, educated, decent woman like me become President.
6
I wonder if JD Vance ever read the New York Times "Neediest Cases" section or ever picked up a book about Manhattans manufacturing past.
If JD Vance brought jobs to Appalachia they'd complain about all the development those jobs brought with them and diversity of choice. If JD Vance brings success back to Ohio the people there will complain about JD Vance and his wife being busy-body do-good rich people. Junkies are junkies because they choose to take that path and it's sad they do and am sorry for their parents. I disagree with his whole "hillbilly eulogy" thesis and am glad he's leaving the city. Better him than me.
If JD Vance brought jobs to Appalachia they'd complain about all the development those jobs brought with them and diversity of choice. If JD Vance brings success back to Ohio the people there will complain about JD Vance and his wife being busy-body do-good rich people. Junkies are junkies because they choose to take that path and it's sad they do and am sorry for their parents. I disagree with his whole "hillbilly eulogy" thesis and am glad he's leaving the city. Better him than me.
6
Elegy. It won't be until the death of King Coal that we can begin thinking about the possibility of change in Appalachia and an eventual hillbilly eulogy.
1
Is home where the heart is? I too moved, all over the West, (19 times) for economic advantage. From the lonely Bitterroot Mountains of Montana to Washington, Oregon and the depths of Las Angeles and eventually Las Vegas. “That’s where the bigger money and opportunity is.” But when we retired, we didn’t care for the last place we had landed. Now we’re considering going back to the start. Back to where family remains (middle of California’s San Joaquin valley). For weekend gettogethers, barbecues, watch the youngsters grow and move away. Back home.
I left home because there was no room for me in my small town's economy, nor either of my brothers. If fact out of eight cousins, there was only room for 1, everybody else left because there was not work.
5
My wife's grandfather was a fixture in Middletown, a doctor. Her father became a museum director in the Midwest and Northeast. She is now a Wall Street lawyer.
When I mentioned the article she was taken aback for a minute. Then she said: "Middletown is an old industrial town." Then: "It has some pretty scenery." Then left for her very challenging work.
Some of Ohio remains in her. She wants to buy a second just to have a larger garden. I, a native New Yorker, have promised faithfully to visit her, if she does.
Life is very funny. When we have the most virtuous intentions, like the author, the results often surprise us, and teach us deep things about life and ourselves that we did not see to begin with. Thinking one is a savior to other human beings is not always as reality based as one might think.
When I mentioned the article she was taken aback for a minute. Then she said: "Middletown is an old industrial town." Then: "It has some pretty scenery." Then left for her very challenging work.
Some of Ohio remains in her. She wants to buy a second just to have a larger garden. I, a native New Yorker, have promised faithfully to visit her, if she does.
Life is very funny. When we have the most virtuous intentions, like the author, the results often surprise us, and teach us deep things about life and ourselves that we did not see to begin with. Thinking one is a savior to other human beings is not always as reality based as one might think.
3
It's easy to go "home" when you are white and educated
Mobility is a privilege
Some people escaped their "homes" because they didn't love the sexism and racism and lack of progressiveness that abounded
Instead they wanted to be free to be who there are vs what some locals (family and friends) that bullied / teased them into being - especially in small towns
I escaped and sometimes think of oh how simple things would be back "home" - but then the realization of a landscape which has zero tolerance for difference wakes me up to how privileged I am here to express myself
Fighting opioid addiction is a noble task
Wish you success
Mobility is a privilege
Some people escaped their "homes" because they didn't love the sexism and racism and lack of progressiveness that abounded
Instead they wanted to be free to be who there are vs what some locals (family and friends) that bullied / teased them into being - especially in small towns
I escaped and sometimes think of oh how simple things would be back "home" - but then the realization of a landscape which has zero tolerance for difference wakes me up to how privileged I am here to express myself
Fighting opioid addiction is a noble task
Wish you success
3
Hey, props to my own "home" town of Salt Lake City where the Mormon majority in the hinterlands continues to dial down all aspects of city life, so it's just like living in rural West Virginia (except for the air pollution that mimics Beijing in the winter and soon to be all year long thanks to tRump and our cowardly governor ). So I get the best of both worlds: horrible Republican domination and lowest per pupil school spending via gerrymandering and all the congestion, pollution, crime and alienation of the big city!
5
I'd like to think the author will spend time outside of Columbus, in places like Athens, 70 miles south of the capital and with perhaps the state's highest poverty and optic addiction rates. And I'd like to think Vance isn't moving to Ohio so he can run against Democratic Sen. Sherrod Brown, who fights for the very communities Vance hopes to fix. I'll choose optimism over cynicism, for now.
8
I read Vance at every opportunity and appreciated what I learn from his perspective, but Columbus is not rural Kentucky or even Portsmouth Ohio. It is young, educated, prosperous and diverse. While it is on US 23 and home to many Appalachian transplants, it is also on virtually every list of thriving cities.
We lived on a suburban Columbus street with blacks, Asians, families with LGBT kids, and two Ohio Arts Council fellowship recipients. The neighborhood could have been dismissed at first glance as "white bread America."
We lived on a suburban Columbus street with blacks, Asians, families with LGBT kids, and two Ohio Arts Council fellowship recipients. The neighborhood could have been dismissed at first glance as "white bread America."
5
Well, people fulfilling their intellectual potential is a heck of a lot better than being stuck in Nowheresville AR. As usual, the intelligentsia miss the point: it's not about what we do with the smart ones, it's what we do with the rest. And for them, being enrolled in the college scam is not the answer. Maybe it's abolishing all those so-called worker-friendly laws and regulations that make it cheaper to do stuff in Ho Che Minh City than Ozark City. Yeah sure, it would lead in the short term to people in the heartland working for a pittance. But they would be working, and as has been pointed out in these very pages, getting people working starts a virtuous cycle.
2
Give Mr. Vance a break! He will throw his efforts behind the Ohio opoid crisis. Believe me, this takes courage and selflessness. Our crime rate rises as these drug addicted zombies roam our streets looking for money for their next fix. Economic forces behind over prescription fuels their misery.
3
The huge cities are becoming less affordable due to increased cost of housing some of it caused by national and international housing investors- so people need to move to smaller cities. Examples: Southern California, New York City.
Apparently, Mr. Vance drove the Silicon Valley Freeways in an hermetically sealed vehicle much like the planes that fly over mid-America. The truth is poverty homelessness and especially addiction are endemic to the valley. But, safe journey "home."
9
You've not touched on other reasons for leaving home. Although a California native, the small Central Valley town I grew up in offered little to an irredeemable outsider, such as myself, other than proximity to family. That latter is not easily discounted in light of the great love for and among my large, extended clan.
Outsider-- desiring exposure to a variety of cultures, beliefs, ideas and philosophies. An impulse to explore. And then there's the "gay" thing. To this day, the hostility and ease of alienation remains prevalent. How do you propose we address these things?
Outsider-- desiring exposure to a variety of cultures, beliefs, ideas and philosophies. An impulse to explore. And then there's the "gay" thing. To this day, the hostility and ease of alienation remains prevalent. How do you propose we address these things?
5
Don't hurt your hand, patting yourself on the back so hard. Some of your points are definitely true, and would be easier to appreciate if the article didn't drip with political ambition. I'm trying to find a larger purpose, a theme I can connect to.
As in your book, you speak generically of coastal snobs disparaging flyover country but fail to give specific anecdotes. I've lived all over the US, in liberal and conservative bastions, and the people of the latter were far more likely to judge. In my experience, those on the coasts don't generally hold strong feelings for or against our interior brethren, save for when it's their votes electing some buffoon.
As in your book, you speak generically of coastal snobs disparaging flyover country but fail to give specific anecdotes. I've lived all over the US, in liberal and conservative bastions, and the people of the latter were far more likely to judge. In my experience, those on the coasts don't generally hold strong feelings for or against our interior brethren, save for when it's their votes electing some buffoon.
33
I have long thought that in our nation's push to give everyone a chance at a college education, we've created a snobbism about regular folks who aren't interested or capable in academics. Rather, they are (or could be) skilled at the very important work involving the trades. Every community needs electricians, plumbers, builders, etc. to service its citizens. Any they shouldn't be made to feel lesser for it. These businesses can be lucrative and can put food on a table and a roof over a head. I would love a movement where the trades are introduced in high school, like they used to be, and financial incentives to extend apprenticeships beyond that time period. This alone may help promote renewal in rural areas and foster a sense of pride in a communities where there is the brain drain Vance talks about.
7
I noticed years ago when I lived in a small foreign country with a unique language, that the brain drain was small. Because talented and creative people would need a foreign language to emigrate, fewer did. There was a very active musical, film, theater and intellectual environment that you don't see in similar sized places in the US.
3
Iceland is very much like this.
Many destined to rise to national prominence concluded early on in their working lives that being a big fish in a small pond has its charms. All the best to the writer (and family).
4
I'm not on board. These places have long history of politicians that neglected the obvious and impending decline and they are filled with people who voted for them. I'm not interested in resolving their self inflicted misery anymore than they are interested in helping Syrians who are fleeing an awful war.
Good luck in Ohio, I'm staying here.
Good luck in Ohio, I'm staying here.
16
I've been doing genealogical research. It was complicated because so many people with the exact same name as my grandfather left Ireland in the mid 1920s. There is nothing new in this. Good for the author, who is moving to Ohio since he is doing an Ohio-based thing, but yes...many young people should move, and then move their parents near them! Very few people will have the means to return to areas where there is no economic base and start business that can succeed. please don't talk other people into staying in places where there is no opportunity and, increasingly, no infrastructure.
4
When I was in high School, our history teacher, a nun, had us all subscribe to a reputable newspaper, which at the time happened to be the New York Herald Tribune. She taught us how to fold it properly for easier reading, even in the subway, and expected us to read and discuss what we found in its pages. This practice, combined with study of US history and the structure of government, established a habit that has lasted a lifetime. If more schools adopted similar policies we would have a well-informed, intelligent citizenry. Why can't we do it?
15
I left home (Long Island) at 17 to join the Navy, and I have not been back. I've lived in dozens of different places, and for the last 20 years in California. Where were my wife and I the happiest? In the developing world. We learned there that people do not need a lot of money to be happy. What they need is family, friends, enough to eat, music, and the assurance that others will be there for them when they need help. There is nothing wrong with the government providing much of that help. Perhaps with enough help - particularly medical care and job training - rural Americans will be able to stay where they were born. If not, we have vegetable-picking jobs out here starting at $12 an hour. Our Mexican immigrants are filling those jobs because no one else will. Now the government wants to send them home.
21
There's a PBS show coming out of NC called "A Chef's Life", about chef Vivian Howard and her husband who, after working in the business in NYC for many years, move back to Kinston, NC, to run an upscale restaurant, Chef and the Farmer. Focusing on traditional-meets-haute cuisine, every show introduces viewers to various friends and small entrepreneurs of this rural, eastern NC area, as they use locally sourced ingredients to create their innovative menus.
We have been enjoying watching this show for it's portrayal of her struggles and successes, knowing that our family's future may be a similar one as we plan our own relocation to a more rural, southern locale. There is much work to be done, but the opportunities for social and environmental progress and development are great. It feels good to know your expertise is truly needed and can make difference.
We have been enjoying watching this show for it's portrayal of her struggles and successes, knowing that our family's future may be a similar one as we plan our own relocation to a more rural, southern locale. There is much work to be done, but the opportunities for social and environmental progress and development are great. It feels good to know your expertise is truly needed and can make difference.
4
Vibrant cities are the economic drivers of all states.
America's world class cities are less defined by a coastline than they are by sharing three things: superior hospitals and institutes of higher learning that attract global talent; access to reliable public transit; embracing of urban waterfront (be it river, ocean, lake)
Historic, beautiful Columbus most definitely has "the bones" for an overdue Renaissance. (My daughter went to school in Ohio and I came to truly love green state and the friendly people I met.) But despite the efforts of smart. talented young people like yourself, as the WH continues to push its reckless, regressive, non-fact based policies: - race-based assault on travel (see global talent above); public transit slashed (see DT's proposed budget cuts); rollback on environmental protection (more pollution, more cars on the road, less innovation, more flooding, more disease ......) you will be on a fool's errand.
America's world class cities are less defined by a coastline than they are by sharing three things: superior hospitals and institutes of higher learning that attract global talent; access to reliable public transit; embracing of urban waterfront (be it river, ocean, lake)
Historic, beautiful Columbus most definitely has "the bones" for an overdue Renaissance. (My daughter went to school in Ohio and I came to truly love green state and the friendly people I met.) But despite the efforts of smart. talented young people like yourself, as the WH continues to push its reckless, regressive, non-fact based policies: - race-based assault on travel (see global talent above); public transit slashed (see DT's proposed budget cuts); rollback on environmental protection (more pollution, more cars on the road, less innovation, more flooding, more disease ......) you will be on a fool's errand.
12
Columbus is a distribution center for moving products in and out of small town Ohio. Any NGO that seeks to combat the effects of the opioid crisis needs to be similarly situated. Mr. Vance will find plenty of his former rural neighbors in this friendly, economically vibrant city. He will have no shortage of college educated volunteers who migrated from rust-belt, coal and small town USA..
5
Bravo for J.D. Vance for moving to Ohio and helping to ameliorate the opioid epidemic. Since the Republican healthcare plan will drastically cut drug treatment funding, and since Ohio is one of the leaders nationwide to suppress minority voters in order to keep Republicans in power, perhaps Mr. Vance can best further his agenda by fighting voter suppression efforts and running for elected office. . .as a Democrat.
15
The writer accurately explains why so many regions continue to support the current administration. The problem is magnified by the right wing media that uses deception and dishonesty to mislead those whose ignorance makes them more susceptible to messages of hate, fear, and greed.
12
I'm a JD Vance fan based on his book. And so curious that he'd throw Charles Murray into the discussion without any attribution. Provocative. I like it. The cynicism of some of the comments is sort of a blue-sate mirror of the red state hopelessness. More toys and money, but similarly stuck without any constructive solutions or skin in the game.
3
I think the point here isn't that Vance is moving back to Ohio to experience the experience of living in the rural Midwest, but to help the state with its awful opioid problem. The focus should not be the on the sacrifices he's making (which many are pointing out are probably minor), but the service he is trying to provide that will help all Ohioans, both urban and rural.
15
It is hard for us sons and daughters of immigrants to wrap our heads around Vance's sentimentality over geography. My family came from Mexico and we constantly moved around for economic opportunity. We were way poorer than many of the American citizens who nowadays elect to remain stuck in one place in the Midwest. Why not think like immigrants and follow the jobs? Move, then move again and again if necessary. Do it for your children's future and your own security. If you want to help people, you can find a way to help the needy through charitable work wherever you find yourself, even in wealthy Silicon Valley (e.g. in neighboring East Palo Alto, Redwood City?). My family's ensuing financial success is proof that deferred gratification and sacrifice pay off. In any event, it beats staying put in a dead-end place.
30
I grew up in a small town. Since leaving for college I have lived in a number of large US cities including New York. The truth is that I have encountered much nicer behavior in large cities than I ever encountered in my hometown. In my experience people living in small towns are often suspicious and hostile to people, ideas, and things that they are not familiar with. I have no desire to go back to small town life.
60
And of course, how many of us have money with which to guide such a choice and decision? This opinion piece portrays a romantic notion to what is an option for a shrinking few. As for me, I have to remain where my secure job is--at least until the earthquake of the Vulgarian's budget cuts come. BTW, moving and relocation expenses take a substantial chunk-o-change, not counting the personal energy. Get real, Mr Vance.
Yes, I love much about Ohio -- the long spring, the rolling hills that start just south of Circleville, the open friendliness of many folks. But I will never move back to my home state of 35 years because so much of it is hateful to who I am. Why would I immerse my child in that? Yes, I am choosing to live elsewhere, where people do not think I am the devil's spawn simply because I love someone I was created to love. And the blame for that falls squarely on so many Ohioans' judgemental ways and the government they support. Perhaps fewer brains would drain away if all brains were embraced.
65
Yes to this. If depopulated areas want to keep their local talent, they have to value them as human beings and not treat them, at best, as outsiders - or at worst, as vermin.
Funny how the J.D. Vances of the world never talk about this. But then they'd have to accept that not everyone is white, straight, male, and Christian.
Funny how the J.D. Vances of the world never talk about this. But then they'd have to accept that not everyone is white, straight, male, and Christian.
2
That was beautifully said. I hope you and yours find peace and acceptance wherever you go!
1
You compare some one from Trump's America believing the insanity of "Pizzagate" with a cultural elite reference to "flyover country"? Seems somewhat unbalanced as the start of making a case for "this is some we all do in homogenized communities".
I've read your book, it provoked a lot of thought - and much needed conversation. But since I've read your book, I've heard Trump's America - in their own words. Just last night there was a live twitter feed of folks in the line. These weren't innocents who had been dealt a bum hand. These were racists with hate and fear in their heads and hearts.
Trump and Bannon have let the genie out of the bottle. My sympathy for racist whites in this country is running low and we are only entering the third month of what I believe will be the worst president ever.
I've read your book, it provoked a lot of thought - and much needed conversation. But since I've read your book, I've heard Trump's America - in their own words. Just last night there was a live twitter feed of folks in the line. These weren't innocents who had been dealt a bum hand. These were racists with hate and fear in their heads and hearts.
Trump and Bannon have let the genie out of the bottle. My sympathy for racist whites in this country is running low and we are only entering the third month of what I believe will be the worst president ever.
1105
we can certainly expect some folks with extreme views to mingle with those who simply want the opportunity for a better life--work, good pay, affordable housing, schools that actually teach our kids the skills they need to "thrive" in our evolving world--but lets not throw out the baby with the bath water.
Thoughtful sentiments and experiences shared by many of us.
Equating the notion of a pedophilia ring as somehow believable among those from rural amurica, and use of the term flyover country among those who aren't, stretches things too thin. That anyone could accept the notion of the pizza parlor child ring speaks to educational underpinnings that are infinitely more consequential than where you call home.
Equating the notion of a pedophilia ring as somehow believable among those from rural amurica, and use of the term flyover country among those who aren't, stretches things too thin. That anyone could accept the notion of the pizza parlor child ring speaks to educational underpinnings that are infinitely more consequential than where you call home.
5
How noble of Mr. Vance. But Columbus is ranked by Forbes as #14 on the list of Best Places for Business & Careers (higher than San Francisco). Business Insider ranks it 50th among most livable American Cities. US News & World Report says it is "teeming with art, music, theater, museums, and culture" and gives it a score of 7.5/10 for value for money (San Fran got a 5.6). Indeed, the lowest rating Columbus receives is not for anything intrinsic but simply for its perceived "desirability"--fueled, no doubt, by the unknowing elitism of the coast-dwellers to whom Mr. Vance is pandering. As a transplanted "coaster" myself, with liberal politics and an advanced degree, I find the diversity of the Columbus area--economically, politically, ethnically, and geographically--one of its great strengths. But as another writer notes, people here are less full of themselves, and this may be what Mr. Vance has the hardest time adjusting to.
9
As a fellow native of the Buckeye State, I find myself drawn back to Ohio as well. I live in New York now. Like the author, I left Ohio because even back in 1981 when I graduated from high school, there were very few opportunities in my hometown of Dayton. If anything, things have gotten much worse since then.
However, the author's decision to move back to Ohio was certainly facilitated in large part by the financial flexibility afforded by appearing for weeks on the bestseller's list, as he has. For most people who left places like Ohio, they don't have that kind of flexibility. So this is an appeal with a very limited audience: people who have enough savings to effectively retire back home.
However, the author's decision to move back to Ohio was certainly facilitated in large part by the financial flexibility afforded by appearing for weeks on the bestseller's list, as he has. For most people who left places like Ohio, they don't have that kind of flexibility. So this is an appeal with a very limited audience: people who have enough savings to effectively retire back home.
3
You are obviously not representative of the unskilled white male who is stuck in an economically depressed area with no hope for a brighter future. Columbus, Ohio is not quite like the coal mining towns in West Virginia, southwest Virginia, or Kentucky. There is no easy answer, but it is cruel to hold out false hopes for these people, as Trump has done. They must make difficult decisions to improve their lot. Telling them that he is going to fix the problem for them is just mean.
6
I am all for returning to "home" after completing education, acquiring skills, and seeing some of the world. What handicaps rural areas, in my opinion, are the people who have never left, have never expanded their view of the wider world, have never met people who live differently. We need something like the Great Depression's WPA or a federal JobsCorp, to counter the insularity and enable people to return home with new energy, new problem-solving skills, and openness to different points of view.
8
l lived for many years in San Diego and consider it my second home town. I moved there for the lack of employment just as Mr. Vance says then moved back to Ohio for that very reason and retired with a good pension and benefits.
If you read the comments Mr. Vance, I read your book and so much of it is true about the sad situation in Ohio of drugs and White and Black Trash (the former gives Hillbillys a bad name). I am a 72 year old Vietnam Veteran and I know at least one thing is true about life here in America: people pretty much put themselves where they are in life. Our Welfare system here in Ohio only encourages both the White and Black Trash to live the way they do by having a bunch of State Babies who grow up with the same trashy values of dependence as their parents--if they even know who they are. Until we can somehow instill a sense of pride in responsibility for the choices we make in life, the drugs and welfare dependence will never end in America.
I hope with your background you work in politics or writing to address the problems we have here and not just end up becoming a Stooge for the Republican Party.
If you read the comments Mr. Vance, I read your book and so much of it is true about the sad situation in Ohio of drugs and White and Black Trash (the former gives Hillbillys a bad name). I am a 72 year old Vietnam Veteran and I know at least one thing is true about life here in America: people pretty much put themselves where they are in life. Our Welfare system here in Ohio only encourages both the White and Black Trash to live the way they do by having a bunch of State Babies who grow up with the same trashy values of dependence as their parents--if they even know who they are. Until we can somehow instill a sense of pride in responsibility for the choices we make in life, the drugs and welfare dependence will never end in America.
I hope with your background you work in politics or writing to address the problems we have here and not just end up becoming a Stooge for the Republican Party.
2
Several decades ago I took a sociology class in which I learned about the tendency for people to divide the poor into the "good poor" and the "bad poor." Coastal America seems to have decided that Middle America's down and out are there because they are too ignorant to move to "where it's happening." They cannot move because they can't find anyone to buy their houses. They prefer not to move because by staying in their small towns many have a support system that no government program can match -- an extended family whose members pitch in to help one another and the community. And as for Vance being "hypocritical" for moving to Columbus instead of a small town, my interpretation is that he is subject to the same realities as everyone else. Without access to research libraries, to reliable high-speed internet, transportation, etc., it would be difficult for him to do the job he has assigned to himself. Give the man credit. He could be in sunny California making millions.
5
I think this kind of points out the reason why so many 'counties' voted for a shallow, unqualified showman. They were unable to determine that he offered dog whistle solutions to some issues, which really are not big problems, and even more simplistic and doomed to fail solutions to very real problems. The metal in those old factories isn't the only thing that has been gathering rust.
7
The writers situation comes down to an laudable act of do gooderism from a person who by hard work and self improvement had choices and to whom the concept of “home’ while still remaining upper-middle class is appealing. But what of those with no choice or those who missed the boat when there was a choice?
In the post WW2 economy, people have sorted themselves out and fought or at least were victims if a new kind of war against labor unions, labor laws, the living wage, etc., where the American manufacturing workers were pitted against low wage foreign workers in a race to the bottom. The ownership class for their own enhanced profits moved or abandoned factories and destroyed whole domestic industries and kept new ones like electronic off shore. We invented televisions sets are made here.
I have driven though a few towns in Pennsylvania where there was little to see but boarded up and rusting factories and shabby home for families who used to work in those factories and for some reason the people are still there and looking for someone to blame. They blame government when Wall Street and the wealthy ownership class are to blame. These people have self segregated themselves and are mad as hell and won’t take it any more and have sought salvation in something they little understand, fascism, and a “businessman” who does not hire American or buy American. Now not only people who live in cities are the the targets of this new kleptocracy.
In the post WW2 economy, people have sorted themselves out and fought or at least were victims if a new kind of war against labor unions, labor laws, the living wage, etc., where the American manufacturing workers were pitted against low wage foreign workers in a race to the bottom. The ownership class for their own enhanced profits moved or abandoned factories and destroyed whole domestic industries and kept new ones like electronic off shore. We invented televisions sets are made here.
I have driven though a few towns in Pennsylvania where there was little to see but boarded up and rusting factories and shabby home for families who used to work in those factories and for some reason the people are still there and looking for someone to blame. They blame government when Wall Street and the wealthy ownership class are to blame. These people have self segregated themselves and are mad as hell and won’t take it any more and have sought salvation in something they little understand, fascism, and a “businessman” who does not hire American or buy American. Now not only people who live in cities are the the targets of this new kleptocracy.
10
And what if I already came from one of those Eastern urban centers? Does that obligate me to move somewhere else? I tried that and wasn't particularly welcome. Smart people leave places because they are ostracized in school and in social circles. American culture often celebrates stupidity and punishes intelligence. And do the intellectuals end up clumping where they are welcome and rewarded for what they have to offer.
19
Often when living on the west coast there was more support among friends and deeper relationships were found because we were all misfit orphans from other parts of the country.
2
Eh.
All my adult life, I've traveled to different places in Europe and the United States and thought, How wonderful if I could live here. But when I've stayed in such places long enough, that thought dissipates.
I still have a hankering to move to a place where I don't have to hear ear-shattering car stereos and experience all the ways that too many people crammed into too small a space make them crazy.
But then, I'm lucky I was born here and that my parents were born here because, despite its flaws, Brooklyn's a good place to call home.
Everywhere is a palimpsest of over a hundred years of images:
This is where my maternal aunt was whupped for walking home from school with a boy; here's the church my grandmother helped to build. There's the spot we picnicked in Prospect Park; the tree is gone, though.
That's the hill my father rolled down into the Narrows to go swimming, pre-Belt Parkway; beneath the Williamsburg Bridge, my young parents courted. That new condominium stands on the spot of the hospital in which my father died. That's the window my uncle leaned out of, waving the paper proving he'd finally paid off his mortgage. The look on his face!
Here's where Mom liked to walk; this supermarket was once Tappin's Restaurant.
Some memories are hand-me-downs, others mine. They keep me here even though they make me lonely for a world that's gone.
Here's where I worked at my jobs, and my family is buried; how could I leave them behind?
Hard to move away..
All my adult life, I've traveled to different places in Europe and the United States and thought, How wonderful if I could live here. But when I've stayed in such places long enough, that thought dissipates.
I still have a hankering to move to a place where I don't have to hear ear-shattering car stereos and experience all the ways that too many people crammed into too small a space make them crazy.
But then, I'm lucky I was born here and that my parents were born here because, despite its flaws, Brooklyn's a good place to call home.
Everywhere is a palimpsest of over a hundred years of images:
This is where my maternal aunt was whupped for walking home from school with a boy; here's the church my grandmother helped to build. There's the spot we picnicked in Prospect Park; the tree is gone, though.
That's the hill my father rolled down into the Narrows to go swimming, pre-Belt Parkway; beneath the Williamsburg Bridge, my young parents courted. That new condominium stands on the spot of the hospital in which my father died. That's the window my uncle leaned out of, waving the paper proving he'd finally paid off his mortgage. The look on his face!
Here's where Mom liked to walk; this supermarket was once Tappin's Restaurant.
Some memories are hand-me-downs, others mine. They keep me here even though they make me lonely for a world that's gone.
Here's where I worked at my jobs, and my family is buried; how could I leave them behind?
Hard to move away..
4
Methinks Mr. Vance is moving here to establish residency ahead of a run for office. And laying the groundwork by framing his move as inspired by do-gooderism and civic obligation. I will be interested in seeing if he moves to Columbus proper or to one of its numerous affluent suburbs (with great schools).
17
My family moved a lot, so I don't have a hometown. But when I lived in "flyover country", as you call it, the place didn't like me. Maybe they're kind to YOU—as one of them—but I was "different". I was criticized even for how I dressed and openly made fun of for my opinions and ways of doing things.
It was an enormous relief when I moved to NYC and was allowed simply to be myself again.
I've been hit hard by the economic problems since 2008, earning much lower wages and having a hard time getting health insurance. (Plenty of city people are are NOT upper class.) But when I was in Texas recently, they didn't see any kinship there between us; instead, I was laughed at and harangued about putting my daughter's car seat in the center position, the "wrong" place. As to drug problems, how understanding have rural people been about drug problems in cities, or among other races?
So I'm dubious at being told that it's city people who refuse to understand or respect others.
It was an enormous relief when I moved to NYC and was allowed simply to be myself again.
I've been hit hard by the economic problems since 2008, earning much lower wages and having a hard time getting health insurance. (Plenty of city people are are NOT upper class.) But when I was in Texas recently, they didn't see any kinship there between us; instead, I was laughed at and harangued about putting my daughter's car seat in the center position, the "wrong" place. As to drug problems, how understanding have rural people been about drug problems in cities, or among other races?
So I'm dubious at being told that it's city people who refuse to understand or respect others.
43
J D Vance continues to paint left and right as similar in their disdain for each other. But the Affordable Care Act which primarily helps lower income and sicker Americans (and most of the unhealthiest states are Red States) was passed without a single Republican vote. It was not the preferred choice of most Democrats let alone liberals yet it garnered our support because our sole aim was to extend health coverage to more and hopefully all Americans. For that we accepted an undesirable but necessary compromise.
And yes we hoped there would be more support for the law and for Democrats as people benefitted but that didn't happen and, in the end, makes no difference because the people who most needed help, Republicans or not, got it.
Republicans on the other hand, as we're seeing all too clearly now in the debate over ACA repeal, don't give a hoot about any harm to their own base let alone anyone else.
And that is the difference between Democrats and Republicans Mr Vance.
And yes we hoped there would be more support for the law and for Democrats as people benefitted but that didn't happen and, in the end, makes no difference because the people who most needed help, Republicans or not, got it.
Republicans on the other hand, as we're seeing all too clearly now in the debate over ACA repeal, don't give a hoot about any harm to their own base let alone anyone else.
And that is the difference between Democrats and Republicans Mr Vance.
40
Interesting comment on the elite naturally coalesing into ghettos where the echo chamber is loud and obnoxious, and group-think and group-speak combine to silence any dissenting or imaginary thinking just because it can.
It is curious that it is the liberal versions of these enclaves are the most vicious in their efforts to suppress given their very vocal and passionate claims of support for inclusion an diversity.
Their hypocrisy is the stuff on which legends are founded.
It is curious that it is the liberal versions of these enclaves are the most vicious in their efforts to suppress given their very vocal and passionate claims of support for inclusion an diversity.
Their hypocrisy is the stuff on which legends are founded.
3
When I moved back east to the region I grew up in, after living abroad and in major west coast cities, I was so shocked with the drug and alcohol abuse. Nobody I spoke to would acknowledge this glaring problem. The community buried its head into the sand, refusing to accept this reality and ignoring it in hopes it would all just go away. Well that of course was not the outcome. A dozen years later there is a huge heroin/fentynal epidemic raging with no real hope. I tell all of the young people I know to get the hell out of here, the earlier the better. Until there is a real attempt to economically help and stabilize many areas of the nation, this epidemic will continue with destroyed lives and deaths. It has to stop or be slowed somehow but I don't see this happening with this current administration and no healthcare available.
15
Vance is proving to be a self-styled hero of the common man who doesn't walk his talk. He has no interest in relocating his family to a small town with failing prospects even though as a writer he could live anywhere. He could move somewhere with substandard schools, boredom for kids and the lure of drugs and alcohol to relieve it, poor access to healthcare and other glories of rural towns everywhere but he can't stomach that sacrifice so he conflates moving to Columbus as a sacrifice. I grew up in a big city in the south with access to the usual amenities. As for getting your news from a trusted neighbor, it doesn't matter how large the population and opportunities are in the city if the people in these cities still turn on Fox News every night for their information. I visited my hometown last year and the same us vs. them, liberals are the problem, rabid religiosity and alternative facts still reigned supreme. No thanks!
46
Many commenters are correct to note that Columbus is pretty cosmopolitan - Big research university, state capital, corporate headquarters, NHL team. But good for Mr. Vance to focus on the rural opioid epidemic -- that certainly merits praise.
Smart, educated people have been leaving rural areas for cities for centuries. What's interesting is that some smaller cities (Greenville, SC, Grand Rapids and Boise are examples) have been able to grow by offering good schools, a welcoming climate for business, and some urban amenities while keeping housing prices much lower than larger cities. Altruism won't bring an educated middle class back to middle America, but good policy might.
Smart, educated people have been leaving rural areas for cities for centuries. What's interesting is that some smaller cities (Greenville, SC, Grand Rapids and Boise are examples) have been able to grow by offering good schools, a welcoming climate for business, and some urban amenities while keeping housing prices much lower than larger cities. Altruism won't bring an educated middle class back to middle America, but good policy might.
30
I agree with the others who shout out that moving to Columbus isn't really moving back home. For most of us, moving away was a matter of emotional survival. Yes, I know everybody in my hometown. Yes, they rallied for me when a relative died. Yes, our linked histories make them dear to me. But to live amidst their short-sighted values-- well, that's why I left in the first place. Understanding is highly over-rated. Somethings are just wrong. I grew up with East Texas racism, greed, and willful miseducation. Thank God, I won't die in it, and I wager Mr Vance won't either.
43
As a transplant from NY to ND who had a good job, money in the bank and lots of experiences to bring to bear, I'm not sure we are doing our rural communities any good. We have plopped ourselves down in the middle of economic and education misery and because of our resources, we are insulated from the daily grind. My job allows me to live well, my kids don't have to worry about college and I have flexibility my neighbors don't have. If we are to really help, we need to put our considerable resources and connections to help grow the rural communities. People should be able to start a business too, they shouldn't have to rely on well off repatriates creating opportunities. We need to work with the government and private companies to convince them to invest, convince them these rural communities have potential so people can flourish where they are.
13
The greater Columbus metro area is a bubble of blue in what has become a red state overall. I live 30 minutes from the city center and many people near me fit squarely into the mold of very conservative, rural Americans. But if you live within the metro area it will not be much different from living in any other large city, just on a somewhat diminished scale.
I personally find the willful ignorance of rural America depressing and I intend to move to the greater Seattle area in a few years to escape the deep seated hatred for progressive politics here. I guess our moves will balance each other out.
But if you believe that interjecting more educated and aware people into flyover land will change the local culture, you are out of touch with how deeply fearful and angry rural America is today. None of the Democrats that I know in my area are even willing to put campaign signs in their yards for fear of the repercussions. My wife put a Hillary sticker on her car and I was amazed that it was not vandalized by the guy driving the van with "The Democratic party is like satan to your soul" written large on the side.
I personally find the willful ignorance of rural America depressing and I intend to move to the greater Seattle area in a few years to escape the deep seated hatred for progressive politics here. I guess our moves will balance each other out.
But if you believe that interjecting more educated and aware people into flyover land will change the local culture, you are out of touch with how deeply fearful and angry rural America is today. None of the Democrats that I know in my area are even willing to put campaign signs in their yards for fear of the repercussions. My wife put a Hillary sticker on her car and I was amazed that it was not vandalized by the guy driving the van with "The Democratic party is like satan to your soul" written large on the side.
13
Mr. Vance is a skilled writer and storyteller. In his memoir, "Hillbilly Elegy," he describes his own childhood growing up surrounded by adults who were prone to violence, alcohol abuse, drug abuse, and chaos. Mr. Vance then pulled himself up by his own bootstraps, joined the Marines, learned discipline, entered college, and wound up at Yale. He is a fiscal conservative who has no faith in government-funded social programs because they didn't much help his family and near neighbors. Believe he would advise people to go out, get their own bootstraps, and start pulling.
Perhaps this helps explain why Mr. Vance's decision to move out of Silicon Valley, back to Ohio, is described in this article as an individual's choice -- his personal choice -- and why his wife is only mentioned in passing.
He will help save Columbus, Ohio, he's got a plan. And she will, no doubt, adapt.
Perhaps this helps explain why Mr. Vance's decision to move out of Silicon Valley, back to Ohio, is described in this article as an individual's choice -- his personal choice -- and why his wife is only mentioned in passing.
He will help save Columbus, Ohio, he's got a plan. And she will, no doubt, adapt.
3
Columbus is a huge city, the state capital and home to a large university. In contrast, the change that has occurred in small towns over the past generation or two is that the local population went from relatively uneducated, but respectful of education, to anti-education. Atticus Finch was respected. His counterpart is spat upon and considered un-American in modern Maycomb. What bright, capable young person wants to endure a lifetime of sneering when he or she can easily escape?
4
One thing that Seems missing from all these articles about mobility is the fact they we now live in a two income family paradigm. My family lived in six different places growing up and only in the last place did my mother seek employment. They could do that because the job payed well enough. The same could be said at the time for blue collar workers as well.
Now you have to find two adequately paying jobs before moving becomes an attractive option. Most families that are striving to improve their lot in life are in this situation. One of my sons had a teacher last year who had moved from out of state because her husband had taken a job here. Within six months his job was cut and they had to scramble to find somewhere else they could both work at the same income level. Fortunately they found jobs in Raleigh, but unfortunately the school had to get a new teacher.
What if they hadn't? Would they have had to move back home with mom and dad?
Suffice to say mobility is more complicated than it used to be.
Now you have to find two adequately paying jobs before moving becomes an attractive option. Most families that are striving to improve their lot in life are in this situation. One of my sons had a teacher last year who had moved from out of state because her husband had taken a job here. Within six months his job was cut and they had to scramble to find somewhere else they could both work at the same income level. Fortunately they found jobs in Raleigh, but unfortunately the school had to get a new teacher.
What if they hadn't? Would they have had to move back home with mom and dad?
Suffice to say mobility is more complicated than it used to be.
3
I grew up in Southwestern Pennsylvania. I grew up poor. I left for college and never wanted to go back. Many of my childhood friends did the same and others stayed and were able to make a living and raise a family but their children have left.
I do think of my childhood, as may others may do. and remember immediately the good times with friends and the slow pace and freedom from adult concerns. But then I also remember the hard times and the economic problems that plagued my childhood and I am satisfied and definitely not guilty that I never went back.
Mr. Vance seems to be bragging about the self-sacrifice on his part that he is returning to a dying part of the country with hopes that he can help revive it. But he is really is not immersed in the real dying parts because he lives in Columbus and because he travels he is not confined to a small geographic location that has very little economic opportunity. Oh, and what a nice dig on the quality of schools in Ohio.
Fifty years ago, economic opportunity pushed people out of Pennsylvania and into Ohio. Now it pushes people out of Ohio. Can't blame anyone for seeking a better life elsewhere.
I have no praise for Mr. Vance but I do feel sorry for the people (because I grew up with them) who were left behind and did not have the opportunities and sometimes did not take the ones given them to leave those dying towns.
I do think of my childhood, as may others may do. and remember immediately the good times with friends and the slow pace and freedom from adult concerns. But then I also remember the hard times and the economic problems that plagued my childhood and I am satisfied and definitely not guilty that I never went back.
Mr. Vance seems to be bragging about the self-sacrifice on his part that he is returning to a dying part of the country with hopes that he can help revive it. But he is really is not immersed in the real dying parts because he lives in Columbus and because he travels he is not confined to a small geographic location that has very little economic opportunity. Oh, and what a nice dig on the quality of schools in Ohio.
Fifty years ago, economic opportunity pushed people out of Pennsylvania and into Ohio. Now it pushes people out of Ohio. Can't blame anyone for seeking a better life elsewhere.
I have no praise for Mr. Vance but I do feel sorry for the people (because I grew up with them) who were left behind and did not have the opportunities and sometimes did not take the ones given them to leave those dying towns.
2
Many businesses could exist in the "fly-over" country states given the ease of communication now. My husband works for a global organization and no more than three members of his group work in the same place. They are located all around the world. Yes, it makes for webex conferences at off-hours, but so what? On the flip side, some people are simply unwilling to go to where jobs can be found. An article in the Washington Post talked about a town in Ohio that lost 1200 jobs when DHL relocated to Cincinnati - all of 50 miles away. News flash - you can commute - to those jobs or others in Cincinnati. Hundreds of thousands of people in the "elite" northeast commute every day. My conclusion is that these red-staters are whiny losers who want the government to save them. Boy, did they elect the wrong guy.
8
Welcome back JD. Columbus has a diverse, educated, and liberal population. Theater, jazz, art, great restaurants, beautiful parks and many fine walkable areas abound. You will find a great quality of life here.
I spend plenty of time in big coastal cities visiting family and friends. Many of them are very proud of their cosmopolitan ways. Except, they are living in the same Brooklyn, Long Island, Westchester, Boston, and Philadelphia neighborhoods that their great, great grandparents lived in. Wow! How insular is that? I've met some interesting Trump supporters there, too. I've lived in a number of different areas of US and met great people from across our wide ranging country. People on the coasts only know their little neighborhood slice of America.
And if I want to spend the weekend in NYC, San Francisco, Chicago, etc., I hop on a jet and go. It's not like we still use horses and buggies out here in fly over country.
There is much to be fixed in these "United" States, but bigotry and hate are not confined to Ohio or anywhere else. Check out the number of counties in New York that went for Trump. Sad.
I spend plenty of time in big coastal cities visiting family and friends. Many of them are very proud of their cosmopolitan ways. Except, they are living in the same Brooklyn, Long Island, Westchester, Boston, and Philadelphia neighborhoods that their great, great grandparents lived in. Wow! How insular is that? I've met some interesting Trump supporters there, too. I've lived in a number of different areas of US and met great people from across our wide ranging country. People on the coasts only know their little neighborhood slice of America.
And if I want to spend the weekend in NYC, San Francisco, Chicago, etc., I hop on a jet and go. It's not like we still use horses and buggies out here in fly over country.
There is much to be fixed in these "United" States, but bigotry and hate are not confined to Ohio or anywhere else. Check out the number of counties in New York that went for Trump. Sad.
3
J. D. Vance should come live in our town of Springfield, Ohio. It offers easy access to Dayton International Airport, but also the the real Ohio of struggling recovery. Here he can live in a city that is a leader in a number of categories including the highest level of food insecurity in the state, and most famously (see NPR and Christian Science Monitor), the city that ranks first in the nation for the decline of its middle class. His kids can attend the same public schools my kids (and John Legend) attended, and he can become more a part of the solution than he can by residing in elite, privileged Columbus, the only growing major city in Ohio. It has a professional soccer team with its very own stadium, for heaven's sake!
10
"The Hillbilly Elegy" is a magnificent book, at once thoroughly researched and sincerely personal. It has been borrowed from me several times. It lets me understand so much about a segment of America that needs understanding and attention.
How selfless, brave and altruistic to return! Much luck in a most difficult endeavour!
How selfless, brave and altruistic to return! Much luck in a most difficult endeavour!
6
I see quite a few smug remarks here. Let's be thankful that someone who seems to have both a brain and a heart is interested in addressing this terrible problem in the heart of our country. The people who are suffering lifted trump up on their shoulders and carried him to the White House. Now we all suffer. Maybe Mr Vance can lead a movement that will help these people in many ways: offering them better political choices, and educating them about making responsible decisions about poltical leadership so that they stand a chance of getting the help they need. It's becoming very apparent that they won't be getting that from Trump unless they plan to enlist in either the military or immigration control services.
14
There are many places in the world where one could live well and happily if one only has a sense of adventure and a certain amount of financial security. I even have relatives who were missionaries and still say that their happiest years were those spent in Papua, New Guinea and they were originally from Minnesota! And unless acquisition is the center of ones life, being able to give time and care to the less fortunate is really the most enjoyable and satisfying thing to do.
5
Vance is the aggrieved voice of those in flyover country. Ironic that those folks voted for Trump in part because he allowed them to turn their back on political correctness, yet they are the first to howl when they are called the deplorables. Just like when Obama caught lots of flack for referring to them as those who cling to their guns and Bibles. But at this time when we are permitted to express ourselves freely, I will call a spade a spade. I watch some of these cretans at Trump rallies, shouting USA, USA. Denigrating a free press, and railing against a Hillary who is allowed to remain free from jail. I get all the arguments about poverty and the lack of privilege. Still, there is no excuse for ignorance and for believing the pronouncements of a proven liar of pathological dimensions. This is the sort of citizenry that gives rise to a Hitler. Alas, it already has.
37
Methinks Mr. Vance is establishing residency where he bets he can run successfully for office. So he's couching his move in terms of do-gooderism and civic obligation. I am curious to see if he actually lands in Columbus proper or in one of its many affluent suburbs (with excellent school districts).
10
So you would rather Mr. Vance put his children in inferior schools? For what purpose?
1
I agree with many of the comments about moving to Columbus Ohio-Actually Columbus is one of the cities that sucks up those rural kids.
Based on my experience it is nothing new. I graduated from high school in 1963, off to college and off to the big wide world after growing up in a small town with a graduating class of 112. Of the top ten students in my class only one returned to a teaching career. So this brain drain is nothing new
I returned "home" in 2004 to take my care of my mother and found a world of difference---700 good factory jobs gone, an empty main street and no real reason for an ambitious young person to stay here.
Based on my experience it is nothing new. I graduated from high school in 1963, off to college and off to the big wide world after growing up in a small town with a graduating class of 112. Of the top ten students in my class only one returned to a teaching career. So this brain drain is nothing new
I returned "home" in 2004 to take my care of my mother and found a world of difference---700 good factory jobs gone, an empty main street and no real reason for an ambitious young person to stay here.
3
In 1989 Flint, MI native Michael Moore made hay with his documentary "Roger & Me." With his newfound wealth, he decamped to a luxury lakeside home in Northern Michigan's pristine Traverse City region. He also founded a summer film festival in Traverse City which draws thousands of well-heeled tourists, including Hollywood celebrities. Good for Traverse City but honestly, that place hardly needed the help. Its summertime streets are often barely navigable, by foot, bike (and forget the car!) due to the crowds.
Flint, on the other hand, needs all the help it can get. Flint is slowly revitalizing now, and many great things are happening--a downtown Farmer's Market that's been nationally recognized for its excellence, a strong and growing restaurant scene, a Thursday evening bicycle ride that draws hundreds, etc. But how much farther along might we have been if Moore had moved back to his hometown and started a Film Festival here?
Eh? On the other hand, if I'd been in Moore's position--I'd have done the same thing he did. Human nature is a difficult thing to rise above.
Flint, on the other hand, needs all the help it can get. Flint is slowly revitalizing now, and many great things are happening--a downtown Farmer's Market that's been nationally recognized for its excellence, a strong and growing restaurant scene, a Thursday evening bicycle ride that draws hundreds, etc. But how much farther along might we have been if Moore had moved back to his hometown and started a Film Festival here?
Eh? On the other hand, if I'd been in Moore's position--I'd have done the same thing he did. Human nature is a difficult thing to rise above.
6
Commitments to public education and access to information technology can, and should, benefit every town. The next great idea can come just as easily from places far more remote than Columbus, Ohio. The real threat comes from those who encourage the demand for "taking back" cultural isolation and Fifties conformity.
11
I read Mr. Vance's book, Hillbilly Elegy, and found it fascinating up to and until he started blaming the government and Obama for many of Appalachia's problems. These folks got caught in the Hillbilly Highway that led to jobs in the North in WWII and then many of the jobs were gone. Appalachia hasn't changed much since RFK. The drug epidemic just added to the problems - especially when one pharmacy in a small WV town can import millions of pills. Much of the opiod problem was brought on by Big Pharma but the bulk of the problem was brought on by the users who substituted pills for alcohol as an escape that was a dead end. Lastly, it wasn't luck that allows me to choose where I live - it was 8 years of college which I paid for myself thru a series of jobs. It was a mother and grandmother who were educated and "nasty" women who pushed me to succeed. My wife and I live in a small town that has built the local businesses and civic pride and we've been successful at keeping both.
43
I haven't read Mr. Vance's book yet, but I intend to do so very soon. As a product of Appalachia (Western NC), but also a graduate of THE University of NC (no comment on your av) who had the opportunity to remain in the Raleigh area to pursue my career as an educator, I opted some 35 years ago to "come home," and I have lived and worked here ever since. Admittedly, my decision was not a unilateral or simple one on my part, but in retrospect I believe it was a good one for me, my family, and my community.
Contrary to your observation that Appalachia "hasn't changed much," my experience has been that change has been fairly constant in my community and in regional communities - sometimes for better, sometimes for worse. In that manner, I don't think Appalachia is so much different from the so-called "Rust Belt," for example, where jobs have disappeared and communities have struggled over the past few decades.
I would also caution you against striking what seems to me to be a somewhat arrogant pose in your "read between the lines" implication that Appalachia is populated primarily by "dead enders" who turn to opioids or alcohol as a means of escape, rather than make successes out of themselves, as you have obviously done. Hurrah for you - and I mean that - but geographic regions, families, economic realities, hell, life in general is complex. Please try to avoid being overly judgmental in your observations and implications about people you know so little about.
Contrary to your observation that Appalachia "hasn't changed much," my experience has been that change has been fairly constant in my community and in regional communities - sometimes for better, sometimes for worse. In that manner, I don't think Appalachia is so much different from the so-called "Rust Belt," for example, where jobs have disappeared and communities have struggled over the past few decades.
I would also caution you against striking what seems to me to be a somewhat arrogant pose in your "read between the lines" implication that Appalachia is populated primarily by "dead enders" who turn to opioids or alcohol as a means of escape, rather than make successes out of themselves, as you have obviously done. Hurrah for you - and I mean that - but geographic regions, families, economic realities, hell, life in general is complex. Please try to avoid being overly judgmental in your observations and implications about people you know so little about.
I would never move back to my home town in rural western Massachusetts. Yea Massachusetts DOES have rural areas. It was a small minded place where the girls my age got married and pregnant right out of high school (and of course divorced later) and where the many of the young men went into the military voluntarily rather than be drafted. Some believed that if their kids wanted a higher education they could go into the military and get the GI bill. I was one of a few that went away to a four year university as opposed to the community college. There my horizons grew. I always knew that I wanted to move to California from a very young age and did so when the opportunity presented itself. I have never looked back and have been very happy with my choice. My home town is even worse now than before. There is no retail except for some grocery stores, mini-marts and of course Walmart. Most people usually go up to New Hampshire to take advantage of the fact that they have no sales tax. Their pastime is getting drunk on the weekends. The major employer seems to be state welfare agencies. If I wanted to live there I would have to move to Boston or Amherst which have similar economies and cost of living as California except with snow. No Thanks. I'll stay where I am.
4
I suspect that the major problem with human societies is that we are ill-equipped by evolution and biology to maintain functional cooperative relationships in groups much larger than tribal size.
See Dunbar's work ("Dunbar's number").
Although I myself dream of living in a large compact city with many small neighborhoods in a tiny apartment. (My wife does not .)
See Dunbar's work ("Dunbar's number").
Although I myself dream of living in a large compact city with many small neighborhoods in a tiny apartment. (My wife does not .)
1
When J.D. Vance gets "home," I propose that he advocate for free higher and technical education and a $15 wage. Only when economically depressed people have access to education and can pay their bills will opiate addiction decline and the effects of poverty (depression, poor health, and suicide, among other outcomes) become less evident. not everyone is going to have a supportive Mawma and Pawpa and prodigious intelligence like Vance. Those people don't need miracles, they need education and economic fairness.
9
For years, I thought that the 99% of my childhood friends who stayed home did so as a positive choice; I've realized in recent months that they did so mostly out of fear of leaving, fear of the unknown, fear of failure (a negative choice).
During the years since high school graduation, they have seemed like perfectly nice simple people; now that we get nearer and nearer to an American Third Reich, the cracks in their facade are getting wider and wider, showing dark things hidden for ages: alcohol and substance use, spousal/child/elder abuse, fear and hatred of minorities and immigrants and "elites" (which mean anyone with the audacity to learn something), and most important - a refusal to take responsibility for their own mistakes and failures. For years, they've been encouraged to be better than these dark urges; but now the floodgates have been opened, and our current leaders are not just allowing but encouraging more id-driven behaviors.
Small towns are not always a bastion of simple values; they are often nests of hatred.
During the years since high school graduation, they have seemed like perfectly nice simple people; now that we get nearer and nearer to an American Third Reich, the cracks in their facade are getting wider and wider, showing dark things hidden for ages: alcohol and substance use, spousal/child/elder abuse, fear and hatred of minorities and immigrants and "elites" (which mean anyone with the audacity to learn something), and most important - a refusal to take responsibility for their own mistakes and failures. For years, they've been encouraged to be better than these dark urges; but now the floodgates have been opened, and our current leaders are not just allowing but encouraging more id-driven behaviors.
Small towns are not always a bastion of simple values; they are often nests of hatred.
19
The problem with Hillbillys is stated rather well in your novel. The issue is two fold, the first is the chaos of the family, more tribal than parental, the second is lack of education and the need to learn critical thinking.
The decrease of a functioning family structure leads to generations of ongoing failures, including the dependence of drugs, The lack of education leads directly to lack of good job opportunities.
These people usually live day to day on the public dole.
These problems plaque Black as well as White poor communities, although we as a Nation seem to lack the answers.
Certainly, the party that they tend to support, in fact does not support them.
The decrease of a functioning family structure leads to generations of ongoing failures, including the dependence of drugs, The lack of education leads directly to lack of good job opportunities.
These people usually live day to day on the public dole.
These problems plaque Black as well as White poor communities, although we as a Nation seem to lack the answers.
Certainly, the party that they tend to support, in fact does not support them.
6
As a native and (mostly) lifelong resident of a rural state, Maine, that famously split its electoral votes between Clinton and Trump, I can attest to the validity of Mr. Vance's remarks.
In my closest circle of friends, we have seven children among us who were raised in Maine. Only one of the seven still lives here now. The others are scattered from Los Angeles to Oregon, Atlanta, NYC and Boston.
Our rural areas are depopulating. We have had five paper mills shut down here in the past three years. These mills were the economic backbone of the state. Nothing is going to replace them.
Maine is the oldest and whitest state in the country. Other than low-paying service and tourist industry jobs, there are no well-paying jobs left here in the rural areas to support our young people.
I see no easy answers to this dilemma.
In my closest circle of friends, we have seven children among us who were raised in Maine. Only one of the seven still lives here now. The others are scattered from Los Angeles to Oregon, Atlanta, NYC and Boston.
Our rural areas are depopulating. We have had five paper mills shut down here in the past three years. These mills were the economic backbone of the state. Nothing is going to replace them.
Maine is the oldest and whitest state in the country. Other than low-paying service and tourist industry jobs, there are no well-paying jobs left here in the rural areas to support our young people.
I see no easy answers to this dilemma.
4
This problem does not "travel in both directions". That is a false equivalence. Vance serves up just more self- serving, self-righteous right wing nonsense. If there are no jobs in your area you must commute, or move, to a place where there are jobs.This is not difficult to understand. From "a friend sharing a story" with me, an always valid source according to Vance, I have heard stories of people in Appalachia who are unwilling to drive 20 miles to work.They want the work in the town where they live, and will not commute to known and available work (according to this friend of mine). But this tale runs counter to the maudlin homespun elegiac of rural purity and sanctimony Vance would have us believe. But I think and learn for myself, not relying on others, to validate my prejudices or limit my horizons, qualities rural right wing America eschews.Vance should try that himself instead of wallowing false rationalizations for failure and poverty.
13
How ironic: the tone of your comment ("maudlin homespun elegiac of rural purity and sanctimony") confirms that the problem does in fact travel in both directions.
1
As a Columbus native and current resident, Mr Vance chose to live not in Hillbilly Heaven but the most educated, literate, and cultural city in Ohio. His Indian wife will feel right at home in the large East Asian population of Indians, Pakastanis, Bangladeshis and others who call Columbus their home.
Perhaps in the 1960s when I was a child, Columbus was a "white bread" city but no more. Yes, we have our share of opiates and heroin but you cannot compare my city to SE or SW Ohio, where jobs and opportunities are lacking in partnership, it seems, with a lack of technical trades or education. Appalachia and its army of Trumpites have no one to blame but themselve. Instead of waiting for Eisenhower America and those jobs to return (coal, steel, auto, etc) they need to wake up, adapt, be flexible, and re-educate and re-invent themselves for 21st century America. It was the novelist Thomas Wolfe who said it best, "You Can't Go Home Again".
The biggest favor Mr. Vance can do for his fellow Ohians is to spread the message that education and job training will be the salvation of his friends and relatives, just as he profited from his Ohio State and Yale education.
Perhaps in the 1960s when I was a child, Columbus was a "white bread" city but no more. Yes, we have our share of opiates and heroin but you cannot compare my city to SE or SW Ohio, where jobs and opportunities are lacking in partnership, it seems, with a lack of technical trades or education. Appalachia and its army of Trumpites have no one to blame but themselve. Instead of waiting for Eisenhower America and those jobs to return (coal, steel, auto, etc) they need to wake up, adapt, be flexible, and re-educate and re-invent themselves for 21st century America. It was the novelist Thomas Wolfe who said it best, "You Can't Go Home Again".
The biggest favor Mr. Vance can do for his fellow Ohians is to spread the message that education and job training will be the salvation of his friends and relatives, just as he profited from his Ohio State and Yale education.
20
I would argue that J.D. Vance's point is a good one, that perspective matters. In Silicon Valley, as in the city where I live, a close in suburb of Washington D.C., we are largely isolated from what occurs in rural Ohio, rural West Virginia, rural many places. To move forward, we cannot shout down the opposing side. Instead, we should listen and learn why an opinion is held, why a position is taken, why a politician is supported. While Columbus sounds like it is not the most rural part of Ohio, I applaud him for moving back and trying to make something good happen in the lives of people he loves. I would also hope that he keeps writing and speaking about both sides of the equation, Silicon Valley and Ohio, in an attempt to move us all toward understanding and away from an "us" versus "them" mentality. Such understanding would seem to be in the best interest of our country.
1
I think it's a pity some people must leave their birthplaces in pursuit of "opportunity". It's a reality, but it's still too bad. I believe it can indeed weaken families and communities. I'd like to see America, "the land of opportunity", be a place where there is opportunity everywhere. I'd like to see us pursuing policies that encourage businesses to set up in places where there are more unemployed. Spread the wealth!
But I'd like to mention one other thing. I think it's very healthy for people to travel and live in other societies and cultures, especially when they're in their teens and early 20s. We really need the mind-expanding experiences of travel. Otherwise we become to insular and unimaginative.
Having the freedom to "leave home", and then "come home", this is the best of both worlds.
But I'd like to mention one other thing. I think it's very healthy for people to travel and live in other societies and cultures, especially when they're in their teens and early 20s. We really need the mind-expanding experiences of travel. Otherwise we become to insular and unimaginative.
Having the freedom to "leave home", and then "come home", this is the best of both worlds.
2
Opportunity in small town America has always hinged on smaller scale manufacturing and distribution, with some of the companies becoming successful giants and others simply providing decent jobs in the local area. The internet was supposed to replace manufacturing, by allowing small-scale businesses in smaller towns to have access to big city skills and markets, but has been a dismal failure as instead the internet helped propel manufacturing and even client service centers overseas to the cheapest possible location, or concentrate them even further in the US. Bring back the manufacturing base, which Trump and Sanders pledged to do, but Clinton and the regular Democrats never discussed, and small towns will be viable again.
My question for the author is why not take the lessons learned while he lived in a place like Silicon Valley where optimism abounds and make these struggling communities adopt them.
It seems the best way to make these communities stronger is to take things like investing in education, caring for the environment, welcoming immigrants and affording everyone equal protection under the law and implementing in places that for too long just had to focus on a certain sector or industry and never had to adapt. This the reason why places like CA, NY, Oregon have done well is because they actually invest in their people rather than make a mad dash to the bottom to attract an odd factory here and there.
It seems the best way to make these communities stronger is to take things like investing in education, caring for the environment, welcoming immigrants and affording everyone equal protection under the law and implementing in places that for too long just had to focus on a certain sector or industry and never had to adapt. This the reason why places like CA, NY, Oregon have done well is because they actually invest in their people rather than make a mad dash to the bottom to attract an odd factory here and there.
Here on the taiga in Central WI in a town of 20,000 and dominated by a large medical complex so it is not "typical".
My children received a very good public education. Our property taxes are very high. Then they to the excellent University of WI.
Our state income taxes are high.
Then to another high tax state MN to get their professional degrees.
They and all of their friends who went to university are gone to the "super ZIP' codes"
They will not return nor will their children.
This is a brain drain but a natural thing that is fostered by excellent public education..
It is loss of blue collar jobs here that makes the situation bad. Not the loss of the more talented or more adventurous.
My children received a very good public education. Our property taxes are very high. Then they to the excellent University of WI.
Our state income taxes are high.
Then to another high tax state MN to get their professional degrees.
They and all of their friends who went to university are gone to the "super ZIP' codes"
They will not return nor will their children.
This is a brain drain but a natural thing that is fostered by excellent public education..
It is loss of blue collar jobs here that makes the situation bad. Not the loss of the more talented or more adventurous.
So J.D. Vance moved from Silicon Valley, "surrounded by other highly educated transplants with seemingly perfect lives" to Columbus, OH, which has neighborhoods that could be described in the same manner as he describes Silicon Valley.
Why does J.D. Vance think his presence in Ohio is going to help people? Has he become that much of a narcissist since the publishing of his book, Hillbilly Elegy?
This article paints him as a superhero who is going to move to the wealthy neighborhoods of Columbus and that will help people in impoverished counties, cities, and towns.
If J.D Vance wants to convince people that he's really helping people in impoverished areas, then move to those areas. Move into their neighborhoods. Living apart from them will not endear him to their plights.
Why does J.D. Vance think his presence in Ohio is going to help people? Has he become that much of a narcissist since the publishing of his book, Hillbilly Elegy?
This article paints him as a superhero who is going to move to the wealthy neighborhoods of Columbus and that will help people in impoverished counties, cities, and towns.
If J.D Vance wants to convince people that he's really helping people in impoverished areas, then move to those areas. Move into their neighborhoods. Living apart from them will not endear him to their plights.
2
I applaud Mr Vance's commitment to addressing opioid addiction and appreciate his recent book, but as someone who recently relocated to Cleveland, Ohio, I hardly think that moving to Columbus is a great sacrifice. Smaller cities, but cities no less, in the Midwest like Cleveland and Columbus offer much in the way of quality education, arts and culture as well as great housing value and lower cost of living. It is also my understanding that the move from the west coast will also allow him to be closer to his wife while she clerks at the Supreme Court in DC.
4
I appreciate the author's nod to the idea that perhaps not all small towns can or should be saved. Living within 50 miles of a large city generally leads to longer lives de to better health care and other resources. Jobs abound in urban areas and no one should be faulted for leaving today's rural America, which rarely resembles the agrarian paradise that lives in our mind's nostalgic eye.
I do think the author errs in implying that we must choose between our hometown and a cloistered community of opportunity and opulence that is detached from "regular" America. Many, many communities still have churches, schools, libraries, parks and community centers where people of differing means and mindsets connect in meaningful ways. We would do well to create more such places that edify us individually and strengthen our nation.
I do think the author errs in implying that we must choose between our hometown and a cloistered community of opportunity and opulence that is detached from "regular" America. Many, many communities still have churches, schools, libraries, parks and community centers where people of differing means and mindsets connect in meaningful ways. We would do well to create more such places that edify us individually and strengthen our nation.
I find Vance's decision to return to Ohio interesting, and having read his Hillbilly Elegy, have some understanding of the emotional pull of "moving home." That said, I still cannot comprehend how Vance, with Ivy League education, could point to President Obama as his "hero" role model, and simultaneously express his "profound relief" at the impending Presidency of the least qualified, most spectacularly unfit stunted adolescent ever to ascend to this office. There is a jarring disconnect in Vance's thinking - and it's striking that he doesn't mention Kentucky, which is really his family's "home base." His oblique insinuations about the right wing memes of "lazy takers" ( "government transfer payments") provides, perhaps some clues - but living in Columbus, Ohio doesn't exactly square with "heading back home" to help the addicted. Vance seems to still suffer from unresolved emotional conflicts: I doubt that physical relocation will solve those for him. Freud's "wherever I go, I go with me" still rings true. 3/16, 8:51 AM
2
To CS: I read this article three times in search of the word "rural" -- it isn't there. "Hillbilly Elegy" it is about the Appalachian diaspora: people who left rural Appalachia a generation or more ago for industrial towns and cities of the Midwest, in search of jobs; it is not about rural Appalachia. Mr. Vance says that he needs to be able to travel for work, and thus to live near an airport, hence his decision to move to Columbus rather than one of the several smaller towns he lived in as a child. He wants to start an organization to combat a problem; it makes complete sense for him to move to the state capital and home of the flagship state university, as he is much more likely to find the resources and people he needs to succeed. And in a sense it is a move home for him: it's where he spent his college years. No matter how wonderful Columbus is, trust me, many people he knows in urban coastal cities will not understand. (From Charlotte, NC-- home of large banks and Bojangles, an Ivy League grad and parent, spouse also from NC with PhD from Stanford, lived on both coasts and abroad, now in West Virginia, lots of stories.) I'm sure that I have political disagreements with Mr. Vance, but I wish him nothing but success in establishing a good life for his family in Columbus, in maintaining his career, and especially in his work combatting the opioid epidemic. From what I know of the opioid problem across the Ohio River here in West Virginia, he has his work cut out for him.
In 1968, I wrote about "Rural Problems" for the Department of Health, Education and Welfare's Special Task Force on Social Services. At the time a major problem was the migration of the poor to cities; in essence to obtain "services." I offered that fighting this regional War on Poverty would be far more effective (and cheaper) in situ. As then, it ought not be necessary to move away from home to get what you deserve. However given the current national regime, moving won't make much of a difference.
1
With the staggering budget cuts planned for non military items by the Trump Administration rural and poorer communities will be crippled further. No matter how well intended, churches & volunteer organizations can only do so much to help the poor. Vance may be well intended, but as he points out - he will be based in thriving Columbus - a booming city of opportunity and universities.
But with even fewer dollars devoted to rehab facilities, health care, education, and such simple but valuable programs like Meals on Wheels (!!) the marginalized parts of our country even more isolated. How can we possibly call ourselves a humane and caring people? By building walls higher & stronger & becoming even more devoted to defense (not nation building) it is amazing how many don't seem to see the ugly path we are on. Even President (& General) Eisenhower warned about the intoxication of an over reaching military complex - but then we know Donald is not big on reading... unless it is a Tweet.
But with even fewer dollars devoted to rehab facilities, health care, education, and such simple but valuable programs like Meals on Wheels (!!) the marginalized parts of our country even more isolated. How can we possibly call ourselves a humane and caring people? By building walls higher & stronger & becoming even more devoted to defense (not nation building) it is amazing how many don't seem to see the ugly path we are on. Even President (& General) Eisenhower warned about the intoxication of an over reaching military complex - but then we know Donald is not big on reading... unless it is a Tweet.
I believe that many people return to where they're from because it is the most authentic place they've been. Hometowns connect to deeper roots and values, and if these are important to someone living a long distance away, then moving home reconnects them to what's really important to them. In my life I've seen this play out many times, usually for the better.
Additionally, states like Ohio offer an attractive improvement in quality of life, in terms of affordability and lifestyle that just aren't possible when living in a large city. One huge problem in Ohio and surrounding states is the heroin crisis, that affects many people who have stayed - or who have been marginalized and couldn't leave. These people need help beyond what they get from their communities. Kudos to Mr. Vance for taking this challenge on
Additionally, states like Ohio offer an attractive improvement in quality of life, in terms of affordability and lifestyle that just aren't possible when living in a large city. One huge problem in Ohio and surrounding states is the heroin crisis, that affects many people who have stayed - or who have been marginalized and couldn't leave. These people need help beyond what they get from their communities. Kudos to Mr. Vance for taking this challenge on
1
I have rural southern roots near towns that are struggling in the modern world and there are no doubt opportunities to make things better. Whether the residents would accept me is a different matter. Like other commenters, my view of the world has broadened and the view of the world of those that stayed has narrowed deepening the gulf between us. It's hard to see how we would find 'detente.' As much as I might have 'moved on' I feel those that stayed have little in common with my ancestors who, generally, sought to learn about the rest of the world beyond their community despite their lack of mobility. I cannot reconcile the complete lack of curiosity or desire for understanding about those living outside the community. I would feel isolated and unhappy at 'home.' Perhaps small Alabama towns are extreme examples but it certainly fits with the experiences of those I've read and discussed with others about their own experiences in Appalachia.
I recently read "Hillbilly Elegy" and highly recommend it. J.D. Vance eloquently addresses the plight of rural America. Perhaps politics is in his future? One thought to compliment his focus: Our nation is dotted with excellent regional colleges. I was lucky enough to attend a small liberal arts school in upstate New York. Many in my class were valedictorians from upstate New York high schools with Regents' Scholarships. After graduation a significant portion went home and became leaders in their communities. GE was a large employer in the area and hired several of my classmates, one of whom went on to become Vice Chairman. GE still has a strong presence in Upstate NY. But my college today prides itself on admitting students from all fifty states and many foreign countries. The percentage of students from upstate high schools is much lower than forty years ago. I think the striving of small liberal arts colleges to achieve national prominence and ranking has contributed to brain drain of smaller communities. Without well educated local managerial talent, entrepreneurial job creation has suffered throughout the Mohawk River Basin.
I live in rural Wisconsin. A state that regrettably went red for Trump. There are active, liberal Democrats still here! As a county supervisor I can attest to the reality of a rural brain drain but we are focusing on Economic Development that recognizes that the natural resources and beauty of our area can attract new people and perhaps bring people back. I think it's important to point out that not all rural people only watch Fox News. We have fiber optic high speed internet, decent schools and land of exceptional beauty. I read JD Vance's book and have tried to understand the mindset of the people he represented but just can't get past the violence and self pity. I can't understand how they can support companies and that have literally raped and stolen their land and elected officials that have never delivered justice.
6
J.D., moving from Silicon Valley to Columbus, Ohio, is more of a lateral move than you might think, except for the price of real estate and the distance to an ocean. I've traveled to both regularly for the last five decades and witnessed the remarkable transitions that share a lot of similarities. Columbus, like SV, has benefitted from the technological and transportation advances of post WWII America and in the 21st century it is much like other metropolitan areas with an economy and culture nurtured by research universities, access to investment capital, and advanced communications and transportation infrastructure. Top jobs in Columbus may have a lower barrier to entry than the San Francisco Bay Area/SV (Ohio State vs MIT) but its economy is driven by the same well educated work force that thrives in many metro areas across America, including flyover cities like Pittsburgh, Indianapolis, Denver, , etc. You're not moving home to the small town Ohio you described in Hillbilly Elegy, you're moving to another island of prosperity where upward mobility is largely determined by education.
11
Mr Vance hit it big with a book that "explained" the residents of Trump country for those pointy-head liberals. He now can afford to go to Columbus and "give back."
Columbus is not exactly Appalachia and one of the underlying problems is the contradictions between rural and urban lives. I grew up in a small town in Upstate NY that is battered by the economic changes. Some of the people who fled went to places like Columbus.
"Of course not every town can or should be saved." The ideology of free markets has been applied to our philosophy of government and we have concluded that a conglomeration of individual decisions will provide the best government. The fall of the Soviet Union ironically has led to a complete distrust of planning and policies that ameliorate the consequences of bad decisions people make.
I don't know what Vance plans to do to fight opioid addiction. If his quest doesn't involve addressing the underlying issues, I expect he will not achieve his goals.
It's great when people make efforts to help others, but sometimes those efforts just make them feel good. I suspect that talent and energy of committed citizens will not change as much as he thinks. We might want to think more clearly about the role that government and some attempts at economic redistribution should play.
Columbus is not exactly Appalachia and one of the underlying problems is the contradictions between rural and urban lives. I grew up in a small town in Upstate NY that is battered by the economic changes. Some of the people who fled went to places like Columbus.
"Of course not every town can or should be saved." The ideology of free markets has been applied to our philosophy of government and we have concluded that a conglomeration of individual decisions will provide the best government. The fall of the Soviet Union ironically has led to a complete distrust of planning and policies that ameliorate the consequences of bad decisions people make.
I don't know what Vance plans to do to fight opioid addiction. If his quest doesn't involve addressing the underlying issues, I expect he will not achieve his goals.
It's great when people make efforts to help others, but sometimes those efforts just make them feel good. I suspect that talent and energy of committed citizens will not change as much as he thinks. We might want to think more clearly about the role that government and some attempts at economic redistribution should play.
1
I am a great admirer of J. D. Vance. I’m reading Hillbilly Elegy and find his reflexions and reasonings in his book, and here, encouraging and praiseworthy. My fear, however, is that in the greater political conversation, his example will be lifted up as a solution to our social shortcomings, and that conservatives will point to his actions as the counterargument to having social and safety net programs in place for our poor and vulnerable. Let’s be clear. J. D. Vance is the exception to the rule. There are few that selflessly will chose to sacrifice their personal gain for the greater good. Even were there to be a groundswell of individuals moving back to their struggling hometowns, they would still be far outnumbered by those that choose self over community. His example, and that of his friends, cannot be part of the equation we make as a society to take care of all individuals in this country.
I spent 40 years teaching in a suburban middle to upper middle class community just minutes away from Manhattan. The kids were for the most part motivated to achieve. They went to competitive universities and successfully charted their way through the job market.
Our chapter of the National Honor Society had exchanges with other ones throughout the country. It was great for both groups of students. Those spending a week in our school got a chance to visit NYC. Our kids got a chance to find out how others lived far from major metropolitan areas.
One year we had a group from a small city in the upper Midwest. One of our teachers who chaperoned our group told us about the community who hosted us. They had a beautiful high school with all modern equipment. However, the students were not very interested in academics or for that matter technology. They didn't appreciate the teachers who tried to motivate them. Few went to four year colleges. Community college for a year or two and then a local job was the goal. It seemed very sad to me.
Our chapter of the National Honor Society had exchanges with other ones throughout the country. It was great for both groups of students. Those spending a week in our school got a chance to visit NYC. Our kids got a chance to find out how others lived far from major metropolitan areas.
One year we had a group from a small city in the upper Midwest. One of our teachers who chaperoned our group told us about the community who hosted us. They had a beautiful high school with all modern equipment. However, the students were not very interested in academics or for that matter technology. They didn't appreciate the teachers who tried to motivate them. Few went to four year colleges. Community college for a year or two and then a local job was the goal. It seemed very sad to me.
2
I'm from Gary, which prospered till my teens. In short order, Asian steel killed the mills, the black majority matured into leadership, white flight killed the remaining economy, and the city became a drug-riddled ghost town. Some of my family stayed nearby; I left to where I could get jobs fitting my growing skillset. I still miss the people, the Indiana dunes and Lake Michigan. Where I depart from the other comments is in bitterness and, I hope, judgment of others. My atavistic yearning for home is at once an unrealistic wish to return to the past and a denial of the value and opportunity of the present, where I am a thousand miles from Gary. Plus it's a fantasy of union with beloved others instead of cultivating devotion to others here and now, where such heart-ful action might actually do some good. Wouldn't that, not a geographic return, do more to heal this fractured nation?
1
Personal growth and deeper understanding of broad community involvement are never a bad thing. Sharing our realizations is brave and we learn how to be useful incrementally. The evolution of our planet is dependent on not only understanding our responsibilities but acting on them. With an open heart we will figure out what ways to use our talents best. Getting online education to rural areas can be one prong of progress. This links the urban institutions to students regardless of zip code. But we can all grow where we are planted by supporting our communities. Volunteering to mentor youth that need it and showing interest in our neighborhood support groups is within all our grasp.
2
I did find Vance's musings about his return to Ohio thought provoking as to why we do what we do. I find it also interesting the criticisms that are offered sound more like a defense of what they are doing than simply listening to what Vance is saying. It reflects a bit like the nature of our politics today (sadly) of individuals feeling insecure or weekend somehow if they are not right. Why is it that we can't simply take-in this type of reflection without worrying as to how it reflects on our own choices. I have had the great opportunity in life to live in most regions of this country and at times overseas. I have grown and benefitted from each experience. However, it is true that even though I grew up in an Irish-Catholic family in northern Utah, I find myself considering a return to "home" that I ran away from in the early 1980s as I consider retiring from my current profession in the next few years. I don't need to know the big picture reason as to why this is true; all I find interesting about it is the stubbornness of its resonance.
1
Moving to Columbus is not such a sacrifice. The economy is thriving, there's a vibrant art scene, diverse population, low cost of living, and you're within a day's drive of 50% of the nation's population. If you like sports, there's NHL hockey, MLS, AAA baseball, and top-tier college football. NFL, MLB and NBA games are no more than an easy 2.5-hour drive north or south. Suburban public schools around Columbus are excellent, even if Columbus City Schools are so-so. There are numerous outstanding public and private colleges in central Ohio and renowned research facilities (Ohio State, Battelle). Columbus never had the manufacturing base that helped define Cleveland, Detroit, Pittsburgh and other rust belt cities. Banking, pensions, insurance, education, information, research and government make up the economic landscape. Crime is relatively low and traffic problems are minimal. You can actually drive from one side of town to the other in 30 minutes, but alternative forms of people-moving are in the works too. Columbus was awarded a federal Smart City grant last summer from the DOT to develop intelligent transportation, including driverless cars, electric vehicles, smart traffic lights and other transportation infrastructure. There's even an exploding craft beer scene anchored by the new Brew Dog North American headquarters and production facility. Columbus is happening. It's a great place to raise a family or start a business. Welcome home, J.D.
3
One economic impact that isn't mentioned is income inequality. It's not just the economic struggles of the rural areas which are socially and politically problematic. It is also the exploding cost of living in urban areas which causes this reverse "brain drain".
Income inequality remains an unsolved problem in our nation. Wages have barely budged in decades, and many employers are still living in a bunker mentality - existing as though we were still in the depths of 2008, and squeezing salaries and benefits accordingly.
To add insult to injury, cities like New York are blooming with new housing, most of which is completely out of reach for most working citizens. Then there are utilities, transportation, and student loans.
I came from a town of fifty thousand, in a suburban/rural area, and moved to New York eleven years ago. Most of the friends and colleagues I've met in the intervening years have left, or are leaving. The tight and inflexible economics of city living are the reason.
This has a negative cultural and economic effect upon the life of large urban areas. Big innovations require a diverse talent pool to come together in a localized area, so that their ideas can reach a critical mass greater than what would happen individually.
As of now, however, creative people are leaving, or staying home. It will be interesting to see what effect this has upon our economy, our culture, and our politics, in the years ahead.
Income inequality remains an unsolved problem in our nation. Wages have barely budged in decades, and many employers are still living in a bunker mentality - existing as though we were still in the depths of 2008, and squeezing salaries and benefits accordingly.
To add insult to injury, cities like New York are blooming with new housing, most of which is completely out of reach for most working citizens. Then there are utilities, transportation, and student loans.
I came from a town of fifty thousand, in a suburban/rural area, and moved to New York eleven years ago. Most of the friends and colleagues I've met in the intervening years have left, or are leaving. The tight and inflexible economics of city living are the reason.
This has a negative cultural and economic effect upon the life of large urban areas. Big innovations require a diverse talent pool to come together in a localized area, so that their ideas can reach a critical mass greater than what would happen individually.
As of now, however, creative people are leaving, or staying home. It will be interesting to see what effect this has upon our economy, our culture, and our politics, in the years ahead.
1
I hope that some of Mr. Vance's efforts will involve education - one of the hardest hit in many areas as federal funds are withdrawn. Sadly, Trump's proposed budget removes federal funds for education. States have little money and sometimes little incentive to spend on education. Recent studies on school vouchers reveal awful results for the poor, yet as head of education we have a school voucher proponent. What we had always assumed as a given - free education for all - seems to be going swiftly down the drain.
5
I am a disabled veteran, and I lived all over the west coast. It was an easy place to live and work in the 60's and 70's. I loved the beautiful areas, the culture, and inexpensive homes, cheap rents then. Good paying jobs. Easy life.
Then I lived in Denver for many years in the 80's and 90's, and watched the inexpensive homes disappear, jobs payed ok, and again a nice culture if you lived in Denver. It was booming then, and now. But now a simple home there can cost $700,000. It became very expensive to live there. As I grew older I missed my family in a small city in the midwest. Houses were cheap then, but no jobs here. Many folks were out of work and struggling. And the racism is terrible here. There was little racism in the west coast cities. The only friends here doing well are the University graduates, education does wonders.
But I am bored to death here in the midwest after living out west. The west coast was a special wonderful place to live way back then, and people are just piling in to live in the sun, no terrible winters. Maybe rain.
I have a great education from in western universities, but it is tough for most folks struggling. So many interesting, educated younger folks are leaving for the crowded west coast, or East coast for jobs. There is much suffering, many poor folks. If I was younger I would move back to Denver or the Western coastal area. I will die here.
Then I lived in Denver for many years in the 80's and 90's, and watched the inexpensive homes disappear, jobs payed ok, and again a nice culture if you lived in Denver. It was booming then, and now. But now a simple home there can cost $700,000. It became very expensive to live there. As I grew older I missed my family in a small city in the midwest. Houses were cheap then, but no jobs here. Many folks were out of work and struggling. And the racism is terrible here. There was little racism in the west coast cities. The only friends here doing well are the University graduates, education does wonders.
But I am bored to death here in the midwest after living out west. The west coast was a special wonderful place to live way back then, and people are just piling in to live in the sun, no terrible winters. Maybe rain.
I have a great education from in western universities, but it is tough for most folks struggling. So many interesting, educated younger folks are leaving for the crowded west coast, or East coast for jobs. There is much suffering, many poor folks. If I was younger I would move back to Denver or the Western coastal area. I will die here.
2
To those who are cynical of Vance's move back to less afflicted, less rural and more enlightened Columbus and have not read Hillbilly Elegy you should. Hillbilly Elegy offers a poignant real window into the lives, culture and harsh realities that many growing up in "Flyover country" face.
Having read Hillbilly Elegy provides a deeper understanding of how Vance now arrives in Columbus. While I suspect Vance has additional aspirations such as eventually running for office he offers some hope in what I believe to be our most intractable problem bridging the communication gap between the two America's a gap of which Trump ripped off the bandaid while making it even the problem way worse. Due to fake, polarized new & information sources we are unable to even have a productive conversation.
Vance's deep understanding of the problem and his credibility having lived it offers a chance to move beyond Trumps lies and fake news. Oh for the days of Walter Cronkite. I for one not only hope that Vance succeeds in combatting the opioid epidemic but that he also does ascend to higher office and helps bridge our insidious divide and alienation felt by so many that they would vote against their interests in electing a truly despicable president.
Having read Hillbilly Elegy provides a deeper understanding of how Vance now arrives in Columbus. While I suspect Vance has additional aspirations such as eventually running for office he offers some hope in what I believe to be our most intractable problem bridging the communication gap between the two America's a gap of which Trump ripped off the bandaid while making it even the problem way worse. Due to fake, polarized new & information sources we are unable to even have a productive conversation.
Vance's deep understanding of the problem and his credibility having lived it offers a chance to move beyond Trumps lies and fake news. Oh for the days of Walter Cronkite. I for one not only hope that Vance succeeds in combatting the opioid epidemic but that he also does ascend to higher office and helps bridge our insidious divide and alienation felt by so many that they would vote against their interests in electing a truly despicable president.
1
Vance's piece resonated with me. I am on the opposite arc -- born and lived most of my life in the super affluent DC suburbs, moved in my late 40s to Belmont County, Ohio, where I teach in the local community college. So often the criticism of people in "fly-over" country is that they are not smart, and I have been known to think the same thing. That's just not true for my students. What is true is that they are poor, and getting poorer. Poor not just in economic terms, but poor in opportunity, poor in optimism, poor in vision, poor in hope. It's not their fault. The odds are against them, beginning with the cost of getting out, and that begins with tuition. There are a lot of things broken in this country, and (in my opinion) most of them have been broken by fiscal conservatives over the last 50 years. However, when the history of this sorry age is written, future sociologists will no doubt point to the defunding of higher education, and the exponential increase in student debt, and the attendant social costs, as the prime reason for our current decline. Education has got to be affordable for everyone. Anything else is just stupid.
13
Here in the lost hollows and hills of my area of the world, everything you say is true. I suggest reading Joe Bageant's "Rainbow Pie" and his" Deer Hunting with Jesus."
I fear for the future of so many.
I fear for the future of so many.
I have no formal relationship with Berea College in Eastern Kentucky, but I am a fan. I couldn't help think of Berea when I read Vances piece. Berea was established in the mid 1800s to educate students from Appalachia including women and African Americans. It is highly competitive because it provides a first rate education, continues to focus primarily on Appalachia, expects work and study from all students and offers a tuition free education to all its 1600 students AND it only enroll students of high potential from families under the poverty line. It has a large endowment and thousands of loyal donors. What?because Berea holds dearly to values of excellence, tolerance and civic responsibility and many of its graduates return to their home communities. We need a Berea in every area of the nation.
9
I grew up in a community similar to that of Vance, but in my small town in Virginia people were much more moderate in their thinking and my basic education was very good, especially for those of us who had parents who had some college education. Evangelicals had not taken over at that time and there was some opportunity; however, only 15 out of my 63 high school graduation class went to college. The valedictorian and salutatorian didn't go to college. All of those 15 except one became doctors, college professors, lawyers, and teachers and moved to larger cities. My hometown has now become very much like what Vance described in his book. I could never be happy living there now. Of course, Vance is moving to a city very much like my current city, an oasis surrounded by rural areas who view progress negatively. Not much of a sacrifice.
3
Really? His wife is from San Diego, and then lived in Silicon Valley. Those of us native to West Coast --and the dramatic Pacific Ocean--find the rest of the nation a big adjustment to make when we relocate. I understand why she at least needs a thriving and very livable city!
He is not from California. He is from Ohio by way of Kentucky. He moved to California after college. I'm not advocating that he move away from California. That was his decision. I'm just saying Columbus, Ohio, is a far cry from the "hillbilly" culture he talked about in his book.
2
Good luck with your move back to Ohio, Vance, although I'd hardly say Columbus is the actual heart of the state. I moved back to Ohio myself, in 2004, to Columbus in fact with frequent sojourns to Dayton, my original hometown and near where my son and his family still live. Maybe it was just me, but I would swear up and down that something more serious than simple job losses had occurred during my years on the West Coast. The cities (Columbus and Cincinnati were exceptions) had fallen on very hard times and were struggling to stay afloat and relevant. Fine neighborhoods from my youth had not just fallen but were demonstrably burned out, with multiple roofs open to the sky. The once fine neighborhood of Five Oaks in Dayton, my place of habitation for years, was cut up beyond recognition by street barriers built in the 90s to combat the crack cocaine problem but left in place still, destroying mobility and isolating one sub-neighborhood from another. Great shopping streets were stripped of the local companies that make a city livable. Interestingly, the small shops were still around; they were in the south suburbs. Now, I'd say these areas are beginning to come back and the reason is that the economic upturn of the Obama years made investment and chance-taking more feasible, helped by the return of at least some industry. I hope you're working on providing exactly the boost in jobs that Ohio needs more than ever now. If you are, you may make a serious difference.
1
While I have been impressed and even moved by aspects of Mr. Vance's memoirs, I am also skeptical of his analytic elements which are often muddled. As others have noted, he is moving to Columbus which, in addition to being a large metropolitan area, is also a university city and the state capital. This is a good move and one wonders why it is not one undertaken by more of Mr. Vance's former neighbors in Kentucky and southern Ohio. It is interesting that, while many Americans revile immigrants who have the courage to move thousands of miles to, say, Columbus, we also often patronize those who prefer to stay in less prosperous places in Ohio or Kentucky. While there may be many virtues in small-town life and personal reasons for staying where one was born, moving to places that offer more opportunity, besides being an American tradition, can have significant economic and educational payoffs for one's family.
3
Very good piece. Unusual for the Old Grey Mare. This paragraph:
"Talking with Ami, I realized that we often frame civic responsibility in terms of government taxes and transfer payments, so that our society’s least fortunate families are able to provide basic necessities. But this focus can miss something important: that what many communities need most is not just financial support, but talent and energy and committed citizens to build viable businesses and other civic institutions."
... Is especially telling. Many of the self-important self-righteous liberals are of the attitude that simply throwing some welfare at the flyover folks is adequate. It assuages their guilt and prevents unrest, a win win for them.
"Talking with Ami, I realized that we often frame civic responsibility in terms of government taxes and transfer payments, so that our society’s least fortunate families are able to provide basic necessities. But this focus can miss something important: that what many communities need most is not just financial support, but talent and energy and committed citizens to build viable businesses and other civic institutions."
... Is especially telling. Many of the self-important self-righteous liberals are of the attitude that simply throwing some welfare at the flyover folks is adequate. It assuages their guilt and prevents unrest, a win win for them.
1
BSC111
As a proud liberal, I can tell you that I agree with JD's statement above.
Now, please assure me that employees will get paid enough & get enough hours to be financially stable.
As a proud liberal, I can tell you that I agree with JD's statement above.
Now, please assure me that employees will get paid enough & get enough hours to be financially stable.
This article would erroneously lead a reader to believe that it is noble for people to return to their roots and devote their lives to fixing rural, small town, America. I suppose immigrants from Ireland should go back to fix Ireland, the Dutch immigrants should go back and take on Geert Wilders. Sure.
Some causal factors deserve exploration. First, has religion (Christianity) failed rural America, and kept it backward? Evidence that the preaching and practice of religion has produced complex problems that people want to flee - is pretty abundant. The love for guns, bible, hate radio and TV, superstition, celebration of ignorance and backwardness, and faux-patriotism seem inextricably linked in rural American contexts. Whether this correlation is causal - deserves exploration. At present, backward rural America is more analogous to urban ghettos than to Mayberry.
Second, the notion that country folks are good, wholesome, hospitable, loving, kind, family oriented, church-centered, all milk and honey - is laughably irrelevant given the reality of the debt, government dependence, and addiction to crime and drugs. As if slavery, segregation, lynching are explainable outside the rural, small town, farm context.
The overwhelming desire of rural Americans to hurt immigrants (on whom they depend), and kill/deport everyone different - largely fails to inspire concern for their plight - regardless of what it might be. Return or not, I cannot find the context noble.
Kalidan
Some causal factors deserve exploration. First, has religion (Christianity) failed rural America, and kept it backward? Evidence that the preaching and practice of religion has produced complex problems that people want to flee - is pretty abundant. The love for guns, bible, hate radio and TV, superstition, celebration of ignorance and backwardness, and faux-patriotism seem inextricably linked in rural American contexts. Whether this correlation is causal - deserves exploration. At present, backward rural America is more analogous to urban ghettos than to Mayberry.
Second, the notion that country folks are good, wholesome, hospitable, loving, kind, family oriented, church-centered, all milk and honey - is laughably irrelevant given the reality of the debt, government dependence, and addiction to crime and drugs. As if slavery, segregation, lynching are explainable outside the rural, small town, farm context.
The overwhelming desire of rural Americans to hurt immigrants (on whom they depend), and kill/deport everyone different - largely fails to inspire concern for their plight - regardless of what it might be. Return or not, I cannot find the context noble.
Kalidan
5
One of the things that has changed, IMHO, is that our once free and liberal education system has become an institutional tool used to sort people, instead of educating them. This is the old Europe or Asia model, where education is used to categorize people and serve as a gatekeeper, not as a way of helping people. I'm a big believer in education, but it exists to better people, not to create castes. Also, this "Super Zip-Code" region the author describes is also largely due to education, not just economics. As education has become more and more important, people definitely move to areas with good schools. In the old days before massive public schooling, it was quite possible that people from different economic classes (and races) could live in close proximity to one another, often in the same little town. Those days are long gone, and it's largely due to public education. To not have access to a good education spells doom. That's what so scandalous. The political sides that have supported strong compulsory public education laws have been the first to bail, abandoning the masses and leaving them out to dry. Lousy public schools are the underlying issue to many of our most pressing social problems, and nobody wants to talk about it. Meanwhile, our universities have to rely on foreign people to fill their positions as too many American kids suffer in crummy schools. Many of them would be better off without school, at least as we currently define it. Truly.
3
JD Vance says he is returning to Ohio to tackle the opioid crises. a worthy cause. More likely he is returning to Ohio to prepare a political campaign. Breating the opioid crises requires curbing big Pharma opioid push; admitting US drug problems results from US policies, not Mexican dealers; expanding treatment and rehabilitation centers, which Trump/Ryan budget eliminates; maintaining extended Medicaid under the Affordable Care Act, due to be cut by the Trump/Ryan agenda JD Vance has championed.
Armco Steel, now AK, dumps 24.3 million pounds of chemicals into the Ohio River per year. In 2015 the Ohio River was the most contaminated body of water in the US despite the 2006 AK Steel settlement with the EPA which "required" it to clean up the PCBs (estimated to cost $12-$13 million at the time). Job losses in the steel industry has certainly fueled the despair, loss of work ethic, spike in drug use etc. JD Vance documents in "Hillbilly Elegy", but JD Vance ultimately blames the victims and fails to address the scandalous failure of the steel industry to take care for its former and current workers and to clean up the toxins it has dumped into the soil and water for 100 years.
JD Vance, as talking head for the Republican Party, offers no solutions to the poverty, drug use, violence, of his youth. JD Vance could learn from Australia, where his same ethnic group embraced National Health, free college tuition, great public transportation.
Armco Steel, now AK, dumps 24.3 million pounds of chemicals into the Ohio River per year. In 2015 the Ohio River was the most contaminated body of water in the US despite the 2006 AK Steel settlement with the EPA which "required" it to clean up the PCBs (estimated to cost $12-$13 million at the time). Job losses in the steel industry has certainly fueled the despair, loss of work ethic, spike in drug use etc. JD Vance documents in "Hillbilly Elegy", but JD Vance ultimately blames the victims and fails to address the scandalous failure of the steel industry to take care for its former and current workers and to clean up the toxins it has dumped into the soil and water for 100 years.
JD Vance, as talking head for the Republican Party, offers no solutions to the poverty, drug use, violence, of his youth. JD Vance could learn from Australia, where his same ethnic group embraced National Health, free college tuition, great public transportation.
25
I left my home area, a then-small resort town in South Carolina, to live in Chicago and after returning ten years later, to the New Haven, CT area. I moved back two years ago, to a small town near the now bustling and much larger resort where I grew up.
I did a lot of soul-searching before I moved back. The area is quite red despite a prospering university and technical college nearby. But a lot of liberals live here too. The area offers the comfort of warmer weather and old friends and acquaintances.
It's been a good move overall. I have found many like-minded people, though I wish there had been more progress in serving various vulnerable populations such as children and people with addiction and mental illness. Public transportation is better, but still poor.
My hope is that I will make a positive contribution where I can and live in peace with those whose thinking is colored by ignorance and prejudice. So far, so good.
I did a lot of soul-searching before I moved back. The area is quite red despite a prospering university and technical college nearby. But a lot of liberals live here too. The area offers the comfort of warmer weather and old friends and acquaintances.
It's been a good move overall. I have found many like-minded people, though I wish there had been more progress in serving various vulnerable populations such as children and people with addiction and mental illness. Public transportation is better, but still poor.
My hope is that I will make a positive contribution where I can and live in peace with those whose thinking is colored by ignorance and prejudice. So far, so good.
3
AS Mr. Vance no doubt knows, Appalachia extends through Maine and into the Martimes, ending in Cape Breton, whose coal mines closed decades ago. The issue of bright young people leaving for the bright lights of Montreal and Toronto or the oil fields of Alberta has persisted for decades.
I crossed swords with Canadian federal officials from the then Department of Regional Economic Expansion, when I was a county planning director in southwestern Nova Scotia in the 1970s. I claimed that the special regional economic areas of Metro Halifax and the Strait of Canso were sucking the leadership talent out of the rest of the province. Their reaction was hostile.
Expatriate Nova Scotians often return to their ancestral homes when they retire. By then they've made most of their leadership contributions somewhere else.
I crossed swords with Canadian federal officials from the then Department of Regional Economic Expansion, when I was a county planning director in southwestern Nova Scotia in the 1970s. I claimed that the special regional economic areas of Metro Halifax and the Strait of Canso were sucking the leadership talent out of the rest of the province. Their reaction was hostile.
Expatriate Nova Scotians often return to their ancestral homes when they retire. By then they've made most of their leadership contributions somewhere else.
2
Things mms to have gotten a bit personal. We all have stories about "home", I grew up in the SF east bay area in the 1950s. I loved the region and it remains, in my heart, my home. Nonetheless, I cannot "go home" because it now costs too much to live there. The home my parents purchased in 1951 for $9,000 still stands and, if it were to go on the market, would be priced somewhere around $450,000 to $500,000. For those who could return as prices have not exploded one has to wonder why. Communities in the "Rust Belt" have been deteriorating since the demise of the steel and tool and die industry. Farm jobs have been displaced by ever larger and more mechanized farms. States where industry remains lose jobs continuously to automation. So, it seems to me, the question can't be how to "turn around" these declining regions with more and better jobs because "more and better" are disappearing everywhere. It is how to distribute the gains rationally.
5
You and your friend Ami will both fail to regain home because the forces that undercut your past are still in power. Manufacturing, the enterprise that built our suburban and flyover communities, was driven out by congressional malfeasance. Congress promoted and still promotes tax laws favorable to transnational companies to move production out of our towns. My own old town, an outer borough of NYC, does dot exit as it did 60 years ago and I can not, would not, return. There is nothing that I remember remaining. Thomas Mann wrote you can't go home. It's an American elegy. He was speaking to me and you.
13
There is a vast difference between a "home" and a "dwelling." A home is simply a structure - with walls, doors, a roof and stuffed with possessions. A dwelling is where you "live" and where all the forces are that make up the character that you become.
All the accoutrements that make up and go into a home may have nothing to do with the person you are, but a dwelling, a place you choose to "live" in will define you as a person to everyone who lives around you. So, a home or a dwelling - which will it be?
All the accoutrements that make up and go into a home may have nothing to do with the person you are, but a dwelling, a place you choose to "live" in will define you as a person to everyone who lives around you. So, a home or a dwelling - which will it be?
In contrast China is mandating that rural dwellers move to cities. See this NYTimes article: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/16/world/asia/chinas-great-uprooting-movi...
Time will tell if this is the way to achieve economic growth or inner city poverty.
Time will tell if this is the way to achieve economic growth or inner city poverty.
As I always say when questioned about moving to Vermont, you can't choose where you're born but you can choose where you live.
7
You're going to combat the opioid epidemic... with your own money? You'll get no help from the president that your friends (and you?) elected.
18
It would be fascinating to have this gentleman write a follow-up piece in 5 or 10 years, and see what he says then.
4
Good luck! You'll need it.
Opioid addiction and de-industrialization are both symptoms of total lack if a usa industrial policy. The "market" has seldom has serious solutions for social crises. These problems require a long term commitment from government and business to improving peoples lives. Quite the opposite is happening in the usa at the present.
Opioid addiction and de-industrialization are both symptoms of total lack if a usa industrial policy. The "market" has seldom has serious solutions for social crises. These problems require a long term commitment from government and business to improving peoples lives. Quite the opposite is happening in the usa at the present.
14
Interesting op-ed although choosing to move back to Columbus is not the same as choosing to return to an economically depressed small-town. Big university, huge healthcare community, NetJets HQ, well-funded museums, good schools and better than average employment opportunities...not exactly a disadvantaged community lacking resources and opportunity. Otherwise, I agree with his many of his points.
14
I would argue/add that a large part of the problem has been the rise of children of success being pushed to out of state colleges and graduate schools by their upwardly mobile parents. Once there, it's even more difficult to go home afterwards. What was good for their parents (the University of xxx) is no longer good enough for their children, who must now go to Penn, Harvard, Stanford, or (more importantly) more mediocre schools that are private and far away as a means of showing off to their friends. Gone are the ties back to their home communities or a coterie of friends from college who act as the beginnings of their social community and business network.
2
My husband, a NYC native, and I, Seattle native, lived happily in Chicago for 10 years. But we find the quality of life and affordability of life very good in Northwest Ohio. Excellent public schools, as well as private. High quality modern and new housing for prices comparable to Chicago 30 years ago. Good symphony, art museums, opera and amazing large metro parks in our region. Income is a little lower, but the purchasing power is at least three times as great. Chicago, Toronto and other cities easy drives away. In Seattle, people would live in 80 year small house for Price of our modern home in a golf community, and their real estate taxes are nearly identical.
They certainly cannot, for most part, afford to travel the world as much as we do with this high quality, low cost quality of living. And the stress and traffic is much less here.
They certainly cannot, for most part, afford to travel the world as much as we do with this high quality, low cost quality of living. And the stress and traffic is much less here.
5
I spent the first half of my life in western Michigan, and never thought I'd leave. However, in the early '80's I decided to "spend the winter" in Florida; in spite of my longing for the change of seasons, I stayed for far too many years. Finally, in 2009 I moved back to my home town - "for good" - to take care of my mother. As wise people know, things seldom go exactly as planned.
So, my career pulled me overseas in 2012, and today I live & work in Ghana. Yes, I know - no change of seasons. Exactly. But the job is great, the climate tolerable, and retirement looms. And you can bet your bottom dollar that this ancient Michigander will be enjoying his final years in the region & climate that he loves best.
As for politics, if we make just the slightest effort, we can create & maintain relationships - virtual or real - with lots of people with varying views. However, it requires the frequent use of the one phrase that is becoming less & less common in today's society: I could be wrong.
And so, while I agree wholeheartedly with the author's observations about geography and political persuasions, until and unless all Americans again view each other with mutual respect and a shared sense of purpose, we will drift further and further apart - and that has little if anything to do with where we live.
So, my career pulled me overseas in 2012, and today I live & work in Ghana. Yes, I know - no change of seasons. Exactly. But the job is great, the climate tolerable, and retirement looms. And you can bet your bottom dollar that this ancient Michigander will be enjoying his final years in the region & climate that he loves best.
As for politics, if we make just the slightest effort, we can create & maintain relationships - virtual or real - with lots of people with varying views. However, it requires the frequent use of the one phrase that is becoming less & less common in today's society: I could be wrong.
And so, while I agree wholeheartedly with the author's observations about geography and political persuasions, until and unless all Americans again view each other with mutual respect and a shared sense of purpose, we will drift further and further apart - and that has little if anything to do with where we live.
27
What do you do if your hometown is in NJ?
2
You wouldn't have left in the first place. New Jersey to Connecticut? Not much difference.
Mr. Vance, I read your great book and have sincere compassion for people in this country who feel they have been "left behind" economically.
But I am sick and tired of being told I need to understand Trump voters/rural Americans while they appear to wallow in their own prejudices and perceived victimhood and spew hate at urban and coastal Americans.
Maybe they should read a book or two and stop believing ludicrous, ridiculous conspiracies.
But I am sick and tired of being told I need to understand Trump voters/rural Americans while they appear to wallow in their own prejudices and perceived victimhood and spew hate at urban and coastal Americans.
Maybe they should read a book or two and stop believing ludicrous, ridiculous conspiracies.
47
You're having a baby, that's why.
I don't even have to read this article: young man rises above poverty thanks to memaw and the military; meets and marries a beautiful smart wife; sells out the people back home by pretending he represents them, even though he hasn't lived there in a long time, none of the years while he was grown; creates a bestseller by telling the ruling classes what they want to hear, while selling out the folks back home...
Now you've collected your cash, and are peering ahead into the future as an ambitious white man: maybe I could be a future politician, riding this gravytrain into office?
You're not really that unique, Mr. Vance, despite what they tell you today.
Truth be told, you should have waited to write the book until you had returned, fully grown, and walked a mile in the shoes of the people you purport to represent. You got an awful lot wrong, that is not being cited as gospel.
The thing about writers like you, you got a good break and published, with your connection to the Yale professor writer, the "Tiger Mom". But you did more telling in your story than you did showing, and nowhere is it evident that you sought to understand why other grown men acted differently than you did
You left, and now you want to go home again. You're simply seeking sanctuary, but want to keep the millions you got while you were out there selling out. The times have changed: open your eyes, read, and learn. Your children will thank you, put them first.
I don't even have to read this article: young man rises above poverty thanks to memaw and the military; meets and marries a beautiful smart wife; sells out the people back home by pretending he represents them, even though he hasn't lived there in a long time, none of the years while he was grown; creates a bestseller by telling the ruling classes what they want to hear, while selling out the folks back home...
Now you've collected your cash, and are peering ahead into the future as an ambitious white man: maybe I could be a future politician, riding this gravytrain into office?
You're not really that unique, Mr. Vance, despite what they tell you today.
Truth be told, you should have waited to write the book until you had returned, fully grown, and walked a mile in the shoes of the people you purport to represent. You got an awful lot wrong, that is not being cited as gospel.
The thing about writers like you, you got a good break and published, with your connection to the Yale professor writer, the "Tiger Mom". But you did more telling in your story than you did showing, and nowhere is it evident that you sought to understand why other grown men acted differently than you did
You left, and now you want to go home again. You're simply seeking sanctuary, but want to keep the millions you got while you were out there selling out. The times have changed: open your eyes, read, and learn. Your children will thank you, put them first.
7
Well good for you for moving back to Ohio. Although moving to Columbus--a fairly vibrant Midwestern city complete with good shopping, culture, a huge world class research university--is not exactly the same as moving back to a town that's been decimated by the loss of manufacturing or mining jobs.
As to your friend(s) who asked you if the conspiracy theory about Hillary and Bill Clinton was true, you would have served them better by teaching them how to do a Google search of primary news sources than providing them the answer. Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. Learning to navigate the Internet is kind of like that too, don't you think?
Good luck in Columbus. I spent a week there about 25 years ago and it seemed like a very nice town.
As to your friend(s) who asked you if the conspiracy theory about Hillary and Bill Clinton was true, you would have served them better by teaching them how to do a Google search of primary news sources than providing them the answer. Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. Learning to navigate the Internet is kind of like that too, don't you think?
Good luck in Columbus. I spent a week there about 25 years ago and it seemed like a very nice town.
10
It sounds like to me that Mr. Vance made a lot of money off that book about people in his old neighborhood. Now he can afford to quit his job move back into the big house, afford the best schools and healthcare and of course write more books about the people he got rich off.
If Mr. Vance is not moving into an existing neighborhood and his kids aren't going to the public school this "Gentrification" and we have plenty of examples around the world to show this does not help the downtrodden.
But honestly I am glad Mr. Vance made it. I acknowledge that it could not have been easy for him and he really worked hard. I also think that his community has gotten the shaft but they also have isolated theirselves and voted against their interests in order to stay pure. They shafted others, ostracized others and when the "others" Vance's of the world work hard and make it (say to the presidency?) they never acknowledged their hard work. And they certainly don't want those guys moving into their neighborhoods.
But of course we don't want to talk about that because we're on a "listening to them" tour.
If Mr. Vance is not moving into an existing neighborhood and his kids aren't going to the public school this "Gentrification" and we have plenty of examples around the world to show this does not help the downtrodden.
But honestly I am glad Mr. Vance made it. I acknowledge that it could not have been easy for him and he really worked hard. I also think that his community has gotten the shaft but they also have isolated theirselves and voted against their interests in order to stay pure. They shafted others, ostracized others and when the "others" Vance's of the world work hard and make it (say to the presidency?) they never acknowledged their hard work. And they certainly don't want those guys moving into their neighborhoods.
But of course we don't want to talk about that because we're on a "listening to them" tour.
7
Huh? Columbus is a big, growing city. Many people fleeing the decline of smaller rust-belt communities in Ohio are moving TO Columbus. I doubt Columbus is suffering much "brain drain."
12