Dems are dependent on insurance/pharma megadonors to run for office to beat the Gop. US medicine is used to big profits. Big corporate money isnt used to elect leaders in other democracies.
We have few options w/o campaign finance reform 1st. And how to get that ball rolling, when it's not mentioned on the media at all?
And how are voters' opinions molded anyway? H/c systems working abroad at low cost as a right of all citizens are never mentioned on our cable TV news, or explained on the Times op ed page, even by liberal columnists.
Neither party gives us the choices we really need, so we stay behind other democracies. Citizens of modern nations wouldn't put up with ACA, but we have no choice. Where does that leave us voters? These comparisons are what's left out of discussion by the media who want to stay 'centrist', while looking 'humanitarian.
We have few options w/o campaign finance reform 1st. And how to get that ball rolling, when it's not mentioned on the media at all?
And how are voters' opinions molded anyway? H/c systems working abroad at low cost as a right of all citizens are never mentioned on our cable TV news, or explained on the Times op ed page, even by liberal columnists.
Neither party gives us the choices we really need, so we stay behind other democracies. Citizens of modern nations wouldn't put up with ACA, but we have no choice. Where does that leave us voters? These comparisons are what's left out of discussion by the media who want to stay 'centrist', while looking 'humanitarian.
1
In the internet age, US voters seem cut off from the world by 2 big oceans & a Canadian border. Media doesn’t cover h/c abroad leaving Americans unaware of dozens of capitalist democracies with systems that work better than ours.
I saw a very unusual exchange on MSNBC’s O’Donnell show with business reporter Ali Velshi as recounted in Daily Kos..
Daily Kos:
Velshi: “nowhere on the face of the earth is there a free health insurance market that works. ….. in all the developed countries that have single-payer systems or Universal Healthcare, happiness about healthcare is actually substantially greater than in the US. Life expectancy [is also higher].
"Why do they all come here for treatment?" asked Rep Jim Jordan
"They don't all come here," Velshi said.
"Republicans say that all the time. But people in Canada, Norway, UK, Sweden, Denmark, they don't come here.
at? I grew up in Canada," My entire family is in Canada. Nobody I know ever came to the United States for health care. I am sure you have a handful of stories about things like that. It is not actually statistically true."
I saw a very unusual exchange on MSNBC’s O’Donnell show with business reporter Ali Velshi as recounted in Daily Kos..
Daily Kos:
Velshi: “nowhere on the face of the earth is there a free health insurance market that works. ….. in all the developed countries that have single-payer systems or Universal Healthcare, happiness about healthcare is actually substantially greater than in the US. Life expectancy [is also higher].
"Why do they all come here for treatment?" asked Rep Jim Jordan
"They don't all come here," Velshi said.
"Republicans say that all the time. But people in Canada, Norway, UK, Sweden, Denmark, they don't come here.
at? I grew up in Canada," My entire family is in Canada. Nobody I know ever came to the United States for health care. I am sure you have a handful of stories about things like that. It is not actually statistically true."
6
I don't doubt the results of studies that indicate patients in Canada live longer. I however question the non-inlcusion of the effect of climate and temperature. There is a great difference in life style between the U.S and Canada as well. I used to live in the Adirondacks of upstate NY. The air in the winter was cold and dry. Winter was long and brutal. Taking a walk outside in the cold to go to school, the grocery store or wherever required more energy and more lung power. If you live in the cold regions of NY or Canada your lungs work harder in the winter and not quite as hard in the summer too as the humidity is far lower. I would like to know what the difference is in survival when climate and environment are added to the control factors of the studies. Where do survivors live? How do they live? What is the source of heat in the home in winter? I would also like to know if there are other contributing factors when deaths in the U.S. and Canada are compared using past health problems and also if any of the people have problems with drug abuse or if they are smokers too. There is a lot left out of these studies that should be included.
1
Jay....yeah, if the researchers could only keep trying to find factors that could change the conclusion---that insurance, thus access to care is a big factor in life expectancy and well being.
If they keep at it, maybe they would find something to justify keeping America's unique big proft h/c system that still leaves out millions---keep digging for anything at all---breathing cold air, drug abuse, smoking, 'life style' ...anything that blames the victims of the US exploitive system===typical traditional Gop blame displacement.
Canada's h/c for all started in the 1960s, The US has a half way solution in 21st century, generations behind the rest of the modern world, and now the dominant party aims to destroy it.
Strange that rw parties in dozens of nations accept their h/c systems. What is the matter with them?!
If they keep at it, maybe they would find something to justify keeping America's unique big proft h/c system that still leaves out millions---keep digging for anything at all---breathing cold air, drug abuse, smoking, 'life style' ...anything that blames the victims of the US exploitive system===typical traditional Gop blame displacement.
Canada's h/c for all started in the 1960s, The US has a half way solution in 21st century, generations behind the rest of the modern world, and now the dominant party aims to destroy it.
Strange that rw parties in dozens of nations accept their h/c systems. What is the matter with them?!
4
That was not my point. The Canadians last longer when they have cystic fibrosis. Why? The treatments themselves are always the only answer. The data is incomplete and analysis of the populations, environment and lifestyles is also incomplete. We attribute lifestyle and environment in other studies. Why not those that study and report results for cystic fibrosis? It is good and proper statistical analysis and a major part of research to ask how a study is done. What are the other possible contributing factors to survival? The costs of drugs and the responsibility of drug companies to make affordable solutions is not diminished by good data. Recall if you will Love Canal. The environment was the greatest cause of illness and death. Not the insurance companies or the drugs used to help the ill. Living at Love Canal was the primary cause of illness.
2
Um, writing from upstate NY here where the air was once colder. Tongue in cheek: maybe the Canadian kids in the study played hockey for years so their lung expansion from exercise and cold air exposure increased lung volume and therefore reduced fluid buildup. Maybe it was hockey and not a single payer system that overall increased the benefit to the masses.
The point of the article was to summarize the research and to convey the outcome. As the article stated "there was no difference in death rates between Canadians and Americans who had private health insurance". It is having insurance that is the underlying benefit to all Americans to obtain regular healthcare thus improving the lives of citizens. It is also the continued investment of our federal gov't to continue (not reduce) funding for the DHHS and NIH, etc. so that gains may continue in medical advances in order to benefit all.
The point of the article was to summarize the research and to convey the outcome. As the article stated "there was no difference in death rates between Canadians and Americans who had private health insurance". It is having insurance that is the underlying benefit to all Americans to obtain regular healthcare thus improving the lives of citizens. It is also the continued investment of our federal gov't to continue (not reduce) funding for the DHHS and NIH, etc. so that gains may continue in medical advances in order to benefit all.
That's what you get when the World's Richest Nation, which is one of the most unequal Nations is also one of the most Selfish Nations in terms of what offerings and help it provides it's most vulnerable citizens as an ever greater proportion of it's growing wealth and income is kept, taken and earned by its wealthiest few as the remaining 90% of all citizens slide backwards or receive/earn less as the years pass, whilst its number of poor grow in number as more fall into deeper poverty as support for them is reduced.
This is what you get when that Nation is America where it's growing wealth goes to it's richest few, leaving everybody else finding things harder or worse than previously and as time goes by, something new grows towards something unique as the World's Richest Failing State, more and more becomes to be.
This is what you get when that Nation is America where it's growing wealth goes to it's richest few, leaving everybody else finding things harder or worse than previously and as time goes by, something new grows towards something unique as the World's Richest Failing State, more and more becomes to be.
11
Why don't we consider health care, and education for that matter, as being part of our national security?
If national defense is defined as the military, economic and political power to maintain survival, well, our survival absolutely requires our health, and our ability to intelligently elect our government.
Perceived in this light, our defense budget should be apportioned to provide for all aspects of our security, that is our ability to maintain our survival, which includes protecting our health and providing our education.
Really, what's the difference if cancer kills you, or some weapon, or some terrorist action? Dead is dead. The idea of a collective defense against all enemies domestic, foreign, biological and environmental is appropriate and necessary.
We really need to change how we approach this idea.
If national defense is defined as the military, economic and political power to maintain survival, well, our survival absolutely requires our health, and our ability to intelligently elect our government.
Perceived in this light, our defense budget should be apportioned to provide for all aspects of our security, that is our ability to maintain our survival, which includes protecting our health and providing our education.
Really, what's the difference if cancer kills you, or some weapon, or some terrorist action? Dead is dead. The idea of a collective defense against all enemies domestic, foreign, biological and environmental is appropriate and necessary.
We really need to change how we approach this idea.
9
Well, I do not mean to burst anyone's bubble, but I once had to wait 24 hours to see a doctor in the province of Quebec... so, I wonder how other health issues are tackled there? Canada's universal health system is really good in many aspects, but still a horrible one in others, just saying...
Yawn. I would never claim that the Canadian system is perfect, but this kind of waiting time anecdote acts as an ideology to disguise a basic truth: a system that provides zero wait time must necessarily be infinitely expensive--with medical services sitting idle, waiting for you to show up. The Canadian system can and does do triage in the allocation of medical resources, and this keeps the costs down dramatically. It obviously is better to have one MRI machine operating and booked 24 hours a day than to have eight private ones waiting around for fee paying patients. Similarly, it is also rational and economically prudent for wait times to be a function of immediate need. In Canada someone who needs a hip replacement because that hip has slowly deteriorated will indeed wait quite a while to get a replacement, but someone (oh, and should I reiterate, everyone) who breaks their hip gets it very quickly attended to.
14
Did you actually suffer from any adverse health effects by waiting for 24 hours, or was it simply an annoyance to have to share resources with the rest of the population who also have access to them?
In the United States, some of us may have quicker accwas to medical services, but that is only because many of us still cannot afford to access what would actually otherwise be a limited healthcare resource.
In the United States, some of us may have quicker accwas to medical services, but that is only because many of us still cannot afford to access what would actually otherwise be a limited healthcare resource.
5
I have top-of-the-line health insurance in the U.S. I couldn't be seen for 3 days for my moderately severe skin reaction. On the day of the appointment, the clinic called and tried to re-schedule for two months later. I ultimately found a physician twenty miles away who had a cancellation that day.
2
American Exceptionalism, embodied by soon-to-be more choice:
Don't get old, don't get sick, and it's your problem if you're not sufficiently wealthy to pay for what you need.
Don't get old, don't get sick, and it's your problem if you're not sufficiently wealthy to pay for what you need.
17
Simple: it is ALL about MONEY. Not about taking care of the sick.
6
American Exceptionalism----a nice sounding, proud propaganda phrase---really means American Abnormality vs the norms of the civilized world.
3
Indeed Meredith,
Many Americans with clout are thinking themselves so Exceptional,
That they have become the Exception to the Rules...
Of law, humanity, logic, compassion and having a Moral Compass.
Many Americans with clout are thinking themselves so Exceptional,
That they have become the Exception to the Rules...
Of law, humanity, logic, compassion and having a Moral Compass.
I have to ask this.
How is it you Americans tolerate the lies the GOP keep chanting.
You just had a false healthcare package dropped on you with appropriate lies that gave you access to healthcare but no means to actually use that accessible healthcare. With premium breaks to the younger consumers but prohibitive premium hikes to those who need it the most, older Americans.
Delivered with a smile and lie by Ryan.
Why don't you shun these liars. He wants millions of Americans to loose coverage and in effect die without insurance. He is an accomplice to mass murderer. He should be chased out of town.
He is your employee and he is a killer.
He wants your mother and / or father dead.
What gives?
How is it you Americans tolerate the lies the GOP keep chanting.
You just had a false healthcare package dropped on you with appropriate lies that gave you access to healthcare but no means to actually use that accessible healthcare. With premium breaks to the younger consumers but prohibitive premium hikes to those who need it the most, older Americans.
Delivered with a smile and lie by Ryan.
Why don't you shun these liars. He wants millions of Americans to loose coverage and in effect die without insurance. He is an accomplice to mass murderer. He should be chased out of town.
He is your employee and he is a killer.
He wants your mother and / or father dead.
What gives?
30
What gives?
Those that could/should, Don't. (give)
Instead they Take.
Whilst almost everybody else gives or gives up.
Let me explain, why the stain of so much pain, so little Gain,
To us seems so insane, against the grain, here reasons Main:
Too busy fighting or hating on those poorer to see with Sight,
What you say & me and others elsewhere agree you're Right,
It seems not for the, by the, of the people, they have no Might,
Our Countries reflect the will of all to fly as high as our best Kite,
Not pursue happiness, we make more we have, brighten more the Light
Make it happen , serve us best , choose who best so we reach new Height.
We are who make our Country us, its so important, too big to ever Fail,
So we make sure we all do well, not to money others sell, they will go to Jail.
We see what happens when America does make itself, the richest State to Fail.
Those that could/should, Don't. (give)
Instead they Take.
Whilst almost everybody else gives or gives up.
Let me explain, why the stain of so much pain, so little Gain,
To us seems so insane, against the grain, here reasons Main:
Too busy fighting or hating on those poorer to see with Sight,
What you say & me and others elsewhere agree you're Right,
It seems not for the, by the, of the people, they have no Might,
Our Countries reflect the will of all to fly as high as our best Kite,
Not pursue happiness, we make more we have, brighten more the Light
Make it happen , serve us best , choose who best so we reach new Height.
We are who make our Country us, its so important, too big to ever Fail,
So we make sure we all do well, not to money others sell, they will go to Jail.
We see what happens when America does make itself, the richest State to Fail.
3
As many others here have commented, having a single payer system is the central foundation of a rational health care system in a rich country. In this particular case, I would not be surprised if the medical care costs for CF patients in the US were pretty much the same as they are in Canada, yet they generate ten years less survival for patients.
Think of the efficiencies of a single payer system. No rapacious, profit oriented insurance companies, clinics or hospitals. Rapacious doctors kept at least partially under control by a fee schedule. No itemized billing of medical costs to patients, and hence little billing overhead. No patient exclusions from the system, and therefore a huge pool to average costs over. Far fewer non-emergency patients seeking care at high cost emergency rooms, as everyone has medical coverage. A rational distribution of medical services, instead of having a private MRI clinic on each block struggling for a profit. Huge economic benefits to the society as a whole deriving from less mortality and morbidity. A better everyday quality of life for everyone.
Think of the efficiencies of a single payer system. No rapacious, profit oriented insurance companies, clinics or hospitals. Rapacious doctors kept at least partially under control by a fee schedule. No itemized billing of medical costs to patients, and hence little billing overhead. No patient exclusions from the system, and therefore a huge pool to average costs over. Far fewer non-emergency patients seeking care at high cost emergency rooms, as everyone has medical coverage. A rational distribution of medical services, instead of having a private MRI clinic on each block struggling for a profit. Huge economic benefits to the society as a whole deriving from less mortality and morbidity. A better everyday quality of life for everyone.
23
Just a few facts for the good of the order: Canada's healthcare delivery system altho "single payer" does include for-profit and private components. The delivery side is not socialized; the providers who deliver care are diverse and range from for-profit to non-profit to academic centers. The socialized component is the payment ("insurance") part, and premiums are charged at the individual and family levels. And where do you see valid comparisons of morbidity rates between our nation and Canada? I know one thing for sure, morbidity costs (can't work while waiting for a diagnostic MRI etc etc) are real, and so far as I am aware, are not tracked in Canada. As to mortality comparisons, I am guessing Canada has us beat, and while healthcare access may deserve some of the credit, our numbers are affected by an unfortunately unique American fact of inner-city violence, crime and vehicular trauma. The root causes of these factors cannot be laid to the feet of our healthcare insurance or delivery systems.
But a higher quantity of wealth for just a few always Trumps the desire or impetus to make things better and improve those things for everyone......else.
5
Great points. I lived in Canada for several years while attending graduate school. Everyone was expected to pay something toward their insurance if they could. But you always felt that you were covered and did not worry about being in-network or out. It's a great relief not to live in a place where you may not be able to afford care. We are a backward nation in many respects and Comrade Trump and the GOP are making the situation much worse.
4
Is it significant that there were about 7 times as many Americans studied as Canadians? That jumped out at me.
1
Well, there are roughly ten times more Americans than Canadians out there. Statistically, the sample sizes here in both Canada and the US are huge. This ain't political polling, but pollsters for the latter are rarely able to afford a sample of 2.000 for the whole US; when they do get such a large sample they usually deem it very reliable.
8
No surprises here. More stories like this one, please. Sooner or later every illiterate who voted for That Awful Man and his party of craven enablers will surely see this kind of information on Facebook somewhere and see that they've been had. VOTE DEMOCRATIC IN THE MIDTERMS, all.
40
Sarah....That awful man and his party of craven enablers make the Dems look great don't they? But the Dems are also dependent on big money from the health care industry to run for office to beat that awful man and his party. Thus they can only go so far to bring the US up to international standards in health care access and pricing. Thus they try to stay with the restrictions of their donor industries like insurance/pharma, big oil, and Wall st banks, while trying to appeal to voters.
This makes for schizo politics, confusing the electorate. We have to take what they allow us. We'll never get rational h/c without campaign finance reform We'll just get better than the awful Trumpf---we hope.
This makes for schizo politics, confusing the electorate. We have to take what they allow us. We'll never get rational h/c without campaign finance reform We'll just get better than the awful Trumpf---we hope.
2
Meredith , you're so right although one can always hope.
It would cost the least amount of resource to simply extend Medicare gradually to more age groups, until the whole population is covered.
Medicare administrative costs run to about 4 to 5 % (same as single payer systems in other countries). the ACA (aka Obamacare) limits private health insurers to 20 % of administrative cost. Prior to Obamacare they ranged at times to 70% (I wonder if Trumpcare plan on keeping the 20% limit? hmmmm?)
It would cost the least amount of resource to simply extend Medicare gradually to more age groups, until the whole population is covered.
Medicare administrative costs run to about 4 to 5 % (same as single payer systems in other countries). the ACA (aka Obamacare) limits private health insurers to 20 % of administrative cost. Prior to Obamacare they ranged at times to 70% (I wonder if Trumpcare plan on keeping the 20% limit? hmmmm?)
A side-effect of a a single-payer universal healthcare system is indeed longer lives.
Trumpcare will of course be shortening a lot more lives of people suffering from many diseases and injuries with 24 million fewer covered by insurance.
Trumpcare will of course be shortening a lot more lives of people suffering from many diseases and injuries with 24 million fewer covered by insurance.
32
My older sister died from CF when I was 15. She was 21. We were lucky that our family had the means to cover her two week hospital "tune-ups" every six weeks, her private therapists that would come twice a day to our home to assist in her breathing treatments, her expensive medications, supplements, and group of physicians. As a child I never thought about how much this was costing my parents, and even now find it hard to fathom that other children and young adults with this disease are dying because they cannot afford to care for this horrific disease. As a grown woman who is trying to get pregnant, my heart is breaking picturing the pain that low income parents must go through as they have to make literal life and death decisions about their kids suffering from CF. I'm so ashamed of my country.
51
As am I, M. Utterly ashamed.
14
There is another side to this. As the mother of a CF daughter who died at 21, I just want to thank your country for all the CF drugs currently available to all CF people. They kept my daughter alive for those precious 21 years. Without all the medical innovations coming out of the US she would have died a lot younger. No other country is producing drugs for the CF market. Not Scandinavia, not Canada, not Europe. It is my guess that when the cure does come it will likely come out of the US also. We have a fully paid public system exactly like Canada. It is wonderful but under severe strain. It can't cope with the pressure it is under. Yes it means everyone is covered, but compared to a private US system (we are not allowed to pay for private CF care even if we are able) it is below private norms - one excellent consultant and fantastic team, but they have to cover 500 patients. Private beds hard to come by which means cross infection was a huge problem. Every system has its advantages and disadvantages.
2
Medicaid provides the most comprehensive healthcare access in the US. Most tertiary care and all academic facilities accept it, so access is not the issue with the Medicaid patients. Is it adherence/compliance? Poverty? Further research is definitely necessary.
Is this a joke? Good doctors, including specialists, who accept Medicaid patients are very hard to come by. The reimbursements are so low that in many cases they do not even cover overhead.
21
Wlli Americans notice that we need single-payer for the sake of our neighbors, if not ourselves.
11
I had a cystic fibrosis patient who cycled on an off insurance, another common scenario. It was a constant battle of juggling admissions to the hospital, finding a lung doctor who would see him whenever he had coverage, cobbling together free samples of medicine. He could not afford to buy insurance because he had a pre-existing condition - referred to as risk
adjustment in insurancespeak. He never had a job that paid insurance but made too much money for welfare. He died of a nasty pneumonia when he was 26, he had a 4 yr old son. When I read this article I wondered - if he had lived in Canada maybe he would have been able to see his son finish high school or college.
adjustment in insurancespeak. He never had a job that paid insurance but made too much money for welfare. He died of a nasty pneumonia when he was 26, he had a 4 yr old son. When I read this article I wondered - if he had lived in Canada maybe he would have been able to see his son finish high school or college.
49
Why can't we have single payer like Canada? I suppose we so not value our citizens as our neighbors do theirs. Shame.
28
A simple answer would be that the country's military budget is disproportionate to it's health care budget. A better balance COULD lead to a better healthcare system.
6
Well, no. In fact a single payer system almost certainly would make health care cheaper while also making it universal. No one pays as much per capita for health care as Americans.
14
roger124 - The US pays 16.7% of GDP for healthcare. Other developed nations with single payer pay about 9 - 11.5%
Your GDP is about $17 Trillian ($17,000,000,000,000).
16.7% of this is $2.839 T ($2,839,000,000,000)
12 % is $2.04 T ($2,140,000,000,000)
The difference between spending 16.7% and 12% is $799,000,000,000 - $799 Billion $$. More than is spent on defence.
You could afford the very best single payer system in the world and still have hundreds of billions left over. I don't get it.
Your GDP is about $17 Trillian ($17,000,000,000,000).
16.7% of this is $2.839 T ($2,839,000,000,000)
12 % is $2.04 T ($2,140,000,000,000)
The difference between spending 16.7% and 12% is $799,000,000,000 - $799 Billion $$. More than is spent on defence.
You could afford the very best single payer system in the world and still have hundreds of billions left over. I don't get it.
3
As a 69-year-old, retired American who was diagnosed twenty years ago with CF, I feel a very personal connection to the issues discussed here. My brother, who is a year younger than I and also has CF, has the good fortune to live in Sweden, where he enjoys all the benefits accruing from that county’s single-payer program. For years I have listened to his descriptions of the top-notch medical care that he receives over there, including frequent, in-depth treatments for his pulmonary, cardiovascular, gastrointestinal, and endocrine systems. All this is provided free of charge by the dedicated and proactive team of Swedish CF specialists looking after him. Although my brother’s health is significantly compromised by his disease, we are reasonably confident that his doctors will keep him going into his late seventies or eighties.
My own situation looks far less auspicious. As a former employee of the University of Wisconsin System, my current health insurance is a combined package consisting of Medicare plus a private plan. Unfortunately, the funds accumulated in my private health insurance account are rapidly draining away, so that in two-and-a-half years I’ll be totally completely dependent on Medicare. According to this article, Canadians with CF have a 44 percent higher survival rate than Americans on Medicaid and Medicare. Probably Swedes have even better odds. Reading about these national differences fills me with anxiety, bitterness, and even a perverse sense of shame.
My own situation looks far less auspicious. As a former employee of the University of Wisconsin System, my current health insurance is a combined package consisting of Medicare plus a private plan. Unfortunately, the funds accumulated in my private health insurance account are rapidly draining away, so that in two-and-a-half years I’ll be totally completely dependent on Medicare. According to this article, Canadians with CF have a 44 percent higher survival rate than Americans on Medicaid and Medicare. Probably Swedes have even better odds. Reading about these national differences fills me with anxiety, bitterness, and even a perverse sense of shame.
65
I also have CF and currently have private insurance which I need to maintain myself as a self-employed person - I am determined to avoid Medicaid and Medicare as long as possible, exactly because of these results, which are not at all surprising. I too am filled with anxiety, bitterness and a perverse sense of shame. I suspect that the CF results would be similar in other chronic serious illnesses, if those illnesses and outcomes were similarly studied.
Shame, shame, shame, America.
Shame, shame, shame, America.
11
Free of charge does not mean free. This program is supported by taxes which are considerable. If Americans would support a similar system it means increased taxes. Probably not on any political party or personnel agenda.
1
But that's a critical point: per person, the Canadian system costs roughly one half as much as the US system!
11
American exceptionalism?
10
Yes indeed which makes America the Exception to the Rules...
... of logic, compassion and common sense.
... of logic, compassion and common sense.
3
How about genetics causing the difference?
American death rates varied with insurance status - death rates similar to Canada's for privately-insured people, worse for Americans with Medicare or Medicaid, and worst for Americans with no insurance. I can't see where genetics comes in. The authors did state they controlled for severity of disease, age and "other factors" - I assume at least one of the other factors might be race, which wasn't a factor.
13
I think you will find that genetically Americans and Canadians are from much the same genetic pool. A mix of Europeans, Asians, Africans etc.
We are not all "Eskimos" up here.
Your life span down there is more to do with having the funds for healthcare. Wealthy have the best healthcare and best health, the poor have little access to healthcare as it is unaffordable and so have the worst health outcomes, they die from preventable or curable ailments.
Your Paul Ryan just foisted upon America a plan where the old are cut off by higher premiums and less subsidy. The insurance companies make higher profits by insuring healthier young people who get a break on premiums. To put it simply, he wants to kill off Grandma and Pop. IT is the GOP way, why help persons who are at the end of their lives when we can enable our benefactors buy yachts and a 5th vacation home? Simple!
We are not all "Eskimos" up here.
Your life span down there is more to do with having the funds for healthcare. Wealthy have the best healthcare and best health, the poor have little access to healthcare as it is unaffordable and so have the worst health outcomes, they die from preventable or curable ailments.
Your Paul Ryan just foisted upon America a plan where the old are cut off by higher premiums and less subsidy. The insurance companies make higher profits by insuring healthier young people who get a break on premiums. To put it simply, he wants to kill off Grandma and Pop. IT is the GOP way, why help persons who are at the end of their lives when we can enable our benefactors buy yachts and a 5th vacation home? Simple!
16
Do you think that on whole, Canadians and Australians have different genetic make up than people in the US??? I used Canadians and Australians as examples because they have the same sort of diverse population and variety of climates as we do.
Look up the tables ranking life expectancies by countries. Why do you suppose that the US ranks around 40 to 51 (depending on the tables) while Canada ranks number 12?
Look up the tables ranking life expectancies by countries. Why do you suppose that the US ranks around 40 to 51 (depending on the tables) while Canada ranks number 12?
1
So much for the death panels in Canada and Canadians rushing to the border in droves getting American health care.
Wake up Republicans, especially poorer Republicans, get Canadians health plan or a version of it that the rest of the civilized world has instead of the well intentioned but bureaucratic ACA or much worse the de facto Republican plan of be rich, don't get sick and/or don't have a bad life event.
Wake up Republicans, especially poorer Republicans, get Canadians health plan or a version of it that the rest of the civilized world has instead of the well intentioned but bureaucratic ACA or much worse the de facto Republican plan of be rich, don't get sick and/or don't have a bad life event.
28
Statistics are interesting but useless if they don't take into account factors, at all levels. To arrive at a higher truth and then to implement mindful changes.
So where is the comparison for quality of care ?
Where is the comparison for treatment ?
Drugs? Compassion?
Where is the comparison between a real Health Care system vs a desease management system?
Here is a hint...
One cares about restoring harmony, physically, mentally, emotional and spiritual.
The other milks your household and transfers your wealth to the system.... preferentes before you die.
So where is the comparison for quality of care ?
Where is the comparison for treatment ?
Drugs? Compassion?
Where is the comparison between a real Health Care system vs a desease management system?
Here is a hint...
One cares about restoring harmony, physically, mentally, emotional and spiritual.
The other milks your household and transfers your wealth to the system.... preferentes before you die.
2
Canada includes health care in their bill of rights.
I used to work on ALS, Lou Gehrig’s disease. There is currently only one, not very effective drug for ALS, riluzole, which increases lifespan by only 2-3 months. Despite Republican predictions of death panels, in the EU all patients get riluzole. European regulators have decided that riluzole is a cost effective treatment. In the US, prior to the Affordable Health Care Act, only about 50% of patients received riluzole - those with insurance. American families without insurance almost always chose to skip riluzole because of the devastating, uncompensated costs associated with caring for an ALS patient (about $50,000/year according to the Muscular Disease Association). Are we on the road to making America great again?
23
You're so right DK, particularly when you the median family income in the US is around 50.000 $ which means the whole income of half of US families would be needed to cover that medication!
An additional factor is involved: Canada and European countries put a limit to what Big Pharma can charge for a medication. That's why some folks who live close to the Canadian border get their meds from Canada..... I remember reading studies that pharmaceutical still make great profits even when the prices are controlled (studies are on line..).
Also, most new drugs are the ultimate result of research funded by the govt and universities. Yes it does take investment to bring them to the public but ultimately, they're the result of much collective work. Pharmaceuticals couldn't come up with those new drugs if it were not for the previous research that went into them...
example: see the recent op ed in the NYT by Bernie Sanders:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/10/opinion/bernie-sanders-trump-should-a...
An additional factor is involved: Canada and European countries put a limit to what Big Pharma can charge for a medication. That's why some folks who live close to the Canadian border get their meds from Canada..... I remember reading studies that pharmaceutical still make great profits even when the prices are controlled (studies are on line..).
Also, most new drugs are the ultimate result of research funded by the govt and universities. Yes it does take investment to bring them to the public but ultimately, they're the result of much collective work. Pharmaceuticals couldn't come up with those new drugs if it were not for the previous research that went into them...
example: see the recent op ed in the NYT by Bernie Sanders:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/10/opinion/bernie-sanders-trump-should-a...
Another triumph fro American Medicine.
24
Don't blame American medicine. Blame American voters.
17
yes, blame the voters for president, but Congress has been bought by the insurance and drug companies. The Clintons tried in the 90s but could not fight them.
7
Blame voters, to some extent, but what are the voters choices?
Dems are dependent on insurance/pharma megadonors to run for office to beat the Gop. US medicine is used to big profits.
We have few options w/o campaign finance reform 1st. And how to get that ball rolling, when it's not mentioned on the media at all?
Dems are dependent on insurance/pharma megadonors to run for office to beat the Gop. US medicine is used to big profits.
We have few options w/o campaign finance reform 1st. And how to get that ball rolling, when it's not mentioned on the media at all?
1
Duh
26
In any case, this will be of little if any interest in the US since it does not affect the well off who can afford private insurance in the US and thus arrive at a similar life expectancy than Canadians on public insurance.