As a physician, I can't think of a worse health care policy than the GOP plan which makes insurance unaffordable for middle aged people who don't yet qualify for Medicare. This is a cohort of people who are likely to require medical care. If they lack coverage, they will wait until they are sicker before they seek help. This, in turn, means sicker patients with higher costs, more disability, and more premature deaths. The :American Health Plan" should be christened the "Unaffordable Inadequate Care Act."
78
It's time to get used to this. Basically if you can't row the boat you are going to get thrown overboard.
It's time to think out of the box. Think medical tourism.
It's time to transfer your assets to kids or family and impoverish yourself and know your way to the emergency room at your local hospital.
It's time to tattoo on your forehead "DO NOT RESUSCITATE"
I get it now. If you can't take care of yourself or if you don't have family to take care of you
and you can't afford help, crawl somewhere and just die already. Like the old lion who can't hunt anymore and can't keep traveling with the pride, go under a shade tree and die.
Everybody get your minds right. It's gonna be brutal.
It's time to think out of the box. Think medical tourism.
It's time to transfer your assets to kids or family and impoverish yourself and know your way to the emergency room at your local hospital.
It's time to tattoo on your forehead "DO NOT RESUSCITATE"
I get it now. If you can't take care of yourself or if you don't have family to take care of you
and you can't afford help, crawl somewhere and just die already. Like the old lion who can't hunt anymore and can't keep traveling with the pride, go under a shade tree and die.
Everybody get your minds right. It's gonna be brutal.
57
I think what people don't get with the high deductibles is this: you don't pay out 100% on the first medical treatment in deductibles. It is gradual. I have a deductible, with a government plan, of something like $6000, but it gets spread out.
3
The plan to render insurance prohibitively expensive is the GOP version of a "death panel".
55
this math may backfire. what if the older people who stay on are the sickest? not everyone under 65 is sick.
2
Time to pay up, the free ride is over for the young and old. I'm fine paying my fair share, have been doing it for some time now. I don't rely on government insurance, maybe less of the population should.
4
Trump and his Republican cronies have turned the alleged "death panels" for older Americans of Obamacare into the "death wish list" of their proposals!
20
I knew that, if given the chance, the Republicans would execute the "death panels" that Sarah Palin was so concerned about. Her silence at this time is DEAFENING!
33
I thought the problem with Obamacare was that they were going to kill Gramma? How is this different?
20
When are the old going to start contributing to the rising cost of education and pony up for student loans?
2
Easy easy easy TrumpNoCare math:
$883,000,000,000.00 cuts to MediCare
$880,000,000,000.00 tax cuts for the wealthy.
Remember when so called "President" Beeblebrox promised "no cuts" tp social security and MediCare.
Pathological lies only when his lips move.
$883,000,000,000.00 cuts to MediCare
$880,000,000,000.00 tax cuts for the wealthy.
Remember when so called "President" Beeblebrox promised "no cuts" tp social security and MediCare.
Pathological lies only when his lips move.
19
The struggle to name this monstrosity is over: It is henceforth known as "The Throw Grandma Under the (Omni)Bus Bill of 2017."
23
Can the New York Times find out how much insurance companies are donating to the campaign chests of members of Congress?
35
Ryan must have stayed awake at night trying to think of the cruelest plan he could come up with. Am I crazy or wouldn't a better solution be to allow people in, say, the 60 to 64 age group to buy into Medicare? In the Medicare system they would be the youngest recipients. Thus they would be removed from the pool in which they are driving up costs because of their growing medical needs. Instead they could be in a pool in which they would need less medical care than older users of Medicare and could possibly help costs come down.
59
Those pushing this make it sound so nice, saying, ' It takes away that nasty mandate and gives people a choice to select whatever coverage they want.' Sadly the only choice many will have is no coverage due to the obscenely exorbitant premiums.
26
If trumpcare doesnt succeed as it looks like, trump still can provocate a war to get thorough 4 years... Would not be the first time this happens, if inner politics not work seting the focus to outside politics - be aware!
14
Importantly, I am encouraged that Republican Senators have understood that the healthcare insurance legislation designed by Paul Ryan is impossibly harsh. The idea of leaving tens of millions of people with no healthcare insurance should be unthinkable. However, we actually have a chance of moving to an improved, less expensive and more inclusive, healthcare insurance system.
7
This whole debate about Obamacare is simply ridiculous. Fiddling with insurance rates and plans is not the solution to America's healthcare crisis. Addressing and controlling the endemic greed in the medical and pharmaceutical industries is the only way to take the steam out of the constant inflation in medical costs. Step One: Allow importation of drugs from Canada and elsewhere at the retail level. Step Two: Allow HHS to negotiate the prices of drugs it buys under Medicare and Medicaid; Step Three: Allow insurance plans that limit doctors' liabilities by capping punitive damages as an option. Step Four: Allow the sale of insurance plans on a national basis to broaden markets; Step Five: Allow clinics in drug stores to provide an expanded range of services; Step Six: Provide Federal funds to build additional medical schools and facility licensing of foreign medical professionals to broaden rather than limit free market competition; Step Seven: Fine parents who fail to have their children immunised; Step Eight: Forbid doctors from making referrals for MRIs or other expensive diagnostic procedures to facilities they own; Step Nine: Ban all forms of payments from pharmaceutical companies to prescribing physicians. There are, of course, many other small steps that could be taken to control costs, but the lobbying power of the medical and pharmaceutical lobbies holds them back and that is the real underlying issue -- not insurance plans.
48
This bill, which will strip 24 million (mostly working) Americans of basic healthcare coverage is uncovering an ugly truth about the modern-day Republican Party. And it is that most (though not all) of the GOP members of Congress now seem to have fully and pridefully adopted the Ayn Randian view of the world. That the world owes you nothing. If you're poor (or even middle-class), it's your own fault, and it means that you simply haven't worked hard enough. This winner-take-all, every-man-for-himself world view has always played well to the top 5% and wealthy establishment, but I don't think it's going to play very well to the older, white, rural supporters who voted for Trump. Mr. Ryan can dress it up as a "freedom" issue all he wants, but at its core, it not only reveals his party's long-standing contempt for government (and its ability to protect its citizens) but pure contempt for the working-poor.
31
And that 5% didn't do it by themselves. Their employees, the lower and middle class working people built the base of their (the 5%) wealth, and that includes inherited wealth too.
Let Ryan et al live on the same plan they are proposing.
Let Ryan et al live on the same plan they are proposing.
16
Almost no one makes it to that 50 to 64 year old bracket without some health issue that insurers deem a pre-existing condition. Crippling the insurance market for this group in particular is extremely short-sighted. If you have high blood pressure or Type 2 diabetes (both conditions which can be kept under good control by being closely monitored by a doctor) and you are no longer covered by insurance, those conditions can spiral out of control. If you can make it to 65, and Medicare hasn't been ravaged yet, you will be much sicker when you can again afford to see your doctor regularly.
The CBO numbers reveal a lot, but they don't (as far as I know) reveal the tremendous impact this bill will have on our health systems. In many areas, including mine here in northwest Ohio, our providers have been expanding over the last seven years. There have been new satellite clinics built, improvements to hospitals, and increases in personnel. What happens to these systems when the dollars are no longer coming in? The workforce will be hit hard, unemployment will climb and some providers will be out of business.
All of this when the individual market under the ACA was beginning to stabilize. What we need are fixes for our current system, not a reinvention and cost-shifting. The AHCA is the very definition of robbing Peter to pay Paul.
By the way, I haven't heard a great outcry from the wealthiest of us who are paying higher taxes to support the ACA.
The CBO numbers reveal a lot, but they don't (as far as I know) reveal the tremendous impact this bill will have on our health systems. In many areas, including mine here in northwest Ohio, our providers have been expanding over the last seven years. There have been new satellite clinics built, improvements to hospitals, and increases in personnel. What happens to these systems when the dollars are no longer coming in? The workforce will be hit hard, unemployment will climb and some providers will be out of business.
All of this when the individual market under the ACA was beginning to stabilize. What we need are fixes for our current system, not a reinvention and cost-shifting. The AHCA is the very definition of robbing Peter to pay Paul.
By the way, I haven't heard a great outcry from the wealthiest of us who are paying higher taxes to support the ACA.
25
"Almost no one makes it to that 50 to 64 year old bracket without some health issue that insurers deem a pre-existing condition."
LJ, you're so right. If you've ever been to the doctor for anything, it's a pre-existing condition. I got cherry-picked out of the open insurance marketplace for having taken medicine (Lorazepam 0.5 mg., once daily) to help me manage stress during my husband's illness and subsequent death from cancer. This placed me in the high-risk pool with people in iron lungs.
LJ, you're so right. If you've ever been to the doctor for anything, it's a pre-existing condition. I got cherry-picked out of the open insurance marketplace for having taken medicine (Lorazepam 0.5 mg., once daily) to help me manage stress during my husband's illness and subsequent death from cancer. This placed me in the high-risk pool with people in iron lungs.
25
My medical care costs when up, insignificantly, and in return, I didn't have to pay out of pocket for some services, such as mammograms. Never felt it. Nevertheless, the republican destroyer governor of IL wants to gut our health care, unions, pay increases, pensions of state workers to pay for 100 B in deficit that was caused by the lawmakers over the years. And they won't raise taxes from 3% (do you believe that? 3 %) I don't think the governor (Rauner) has passed a single year in 2 years and we don't have a budget. This is the REAL carnage in Illinois
11
GOP genocide plan. How to make America great - work till you drop or die at your desk. No Medicare, no Medicaid and a new big shiny wall, more airplanes and a tax cut for the the 10%.
45
I guess I missed the part where not only the premiums will increase, but the catastrophic deductibles will also increase. For 2017, my 41 year old son has a silver plan with $459 per month premiums and a maximum $7,000 deductible, which he has already reached with two hospitalizations. So his average out of pocket will be $1,000 per month for 2017. I don't think we can swing much more than that, so we will be forced to drop out next year if the average out of pocket jumps to $1400 per month. That's a lot of take home pay for any average guy. People just can't pay these costs and still manage rent, food, transportation, etc.
38
Does the estimated costs and saving take into account, that someone that is insured does not pay the full cost of care. Insured people pay premiums and must pay deductibles, co-payments and coinsurance amounts, but get the benefit of negotiated discounts the the insurer with the providers and hospitals. If you are uninsured, you are billed and must pay the full billed amount. For example, the billed amount for and ultrasound transrectal procedure code 76872 is $800.00, Blue Cross has a negotiated price is $108.53, which Blue Cross and the patient share the costs.
10
Anyone who compares higher premiums for auto insurance vs. healthcare insurance makes the profoundly false assumption that the two are remotely the same. Owning a car is optional; one's health and wellbeing are not. As all living things age their good health declines. Why is it okay to charge older patients more for a fact of life they have no control over? In the alternative, look at it this way: Older patients have paid substantially more in Medicare taxes than their younger counterparts and thus, should be entitled to greater benefits. We're all in this together, America. Don't let the Republicans divide us any further than they already have.
43
If younger, particularly male drivers can be charged substantially higher auto insurance premiums due to the documented higher costs to insure them, then why can't older patients be charged higher healthcare premiums that reflect their higher costs? It's been said that something like 5% of the population consumes something like 60% of medical spending. Rates should reflect that.
5
Excuse me. I worked for 40 years and paid into Medicare and Social Security. I earned a very good salary; it was taxed. If I now have Medicare and Social Security. Who gave you the right to say I should pay some exhorbitant rate for Medicare? Medicare is taken out of Social Security. Taxes are taken out of Social Security above a certain income level, so I still pay into the system. I also pay for a supplemental plan above Medicare, and a prescription plan. I am able to afford that, for now. I should never use the benefits paid for? Paul Ryan, the Ayn Rand survival of the fittest, guy grew up on his fathers Federal Disability benefits; he went to school on Federal grant money. Ayn Rand died broke, living on Federal welfare and Federal medical benefits. Ayn Rand's philosophy is so debunked. Paul Ryan is not the smartest "policy wonk" in the Senate. He is a mediocre intellect, and a taker. He never had a real job, other than government work. He is smarter than the President grifter-in-chief, but not by much. We have a gerrymandered Congress from "safe" Districts. Scalia left a decision based on an old Superior Court case with a typo; a corporation was identified as an individual. Scalia used it in his Citizens United decision giving corporations "personhood". So they can pour unlimited cash into elections to elect takers like Paul Ryan.
51
Basic healthcare should be affordable for all, regardless of age. What you speak of is the extremely contentious issue of unlimited & expensive, "care" that is questionable in respect to whether truly necessary or merely a panacea of some type. Big Pharma as well as other medical inventors market their products quite hard, & since on average younger people are healthier, they market their goods to the elderly who have a strong desire (fear) to Not Die.
People will give all they have for more years in a dying body, and Big Pharma & the Medical Industrial Complex know this. They are quite happy to take all one's money, especially if there are no rules or regulations as to its distribution.
But even having said that, there is also the unfortunate truth that many people, after decades of poor eating habits, inactivity, & other negatives, are simply in pretty bad shape. To expect ones insurance or Medicare to simply fork over funds to repair & rejuvenate an abused and disused body is not only hugely selfish and irresponsible, but probably a waste of funds & resources.
E.g., the old 'dilemma' is whether the alcoholic should receive a new liver, even if he/she is still drinking. Most folks say "of course not; he should shape up!" Yet, if you change the scenario, and ask if the obese person should receive a new heart, hip, and 17 medications, or if the 88 year old found to have cancer should receive radiation, chemo, and more to fend off death (!), well, folks say "yes!"
People will give all they have for more years in a dying body, and Big Pharma & the Medical Industrial Complex know this. They are quite happy to take all one's money, especially if there are no rules or regulations as to its distribution.
But even having said that, there is also the unfortunate truth that many people, after decades of poor eating habits, inactivity, & other negatives, are simply in pretty bad shape. To expect ones insurance or Medicare to simply fork over funds to repair & rejuvenate an abused and disused body is not only hugely selfish and irresponsible, but probably a waste of funds & resources.
E.g., the old 'dilemma' is whether the alcoholic should receive a new liver, even if he/she is still drinking. Most folks say "of course not; he should shape up!" Yet, if you change the scenario, and ask if the obese person should receive a new heart, hip, and 17 medications, or if the 88 year old found to have cancer should receive radiation, chemo, and more to fend off death (!), well, folks say "yes!"
2
The reality is that obese people develop other diseases, i.e. Diabetes and gangrene in their lower extremities. They don't live as long you might think, even with medical attention. Cancer treatment is often left to a family to decide how much further to go. When my father developed lung cancer at the age of 80, he hospitalized and put on a ventilator. The doctor informed my mother that he would never be able to return home unless she could provide a hospital setting. She couldn't. At some point, after his brothers and sister, and our other family members had come to see him, he was at peace. When my mother gave the hospital a DNR instruction, she had done all she could do. My athletic father was suffering, hooked up to so many things, trapped in a hospital bed. He died peacefully in his sleep. That was a family decision, and the hospital honored it. There are options for families who have a dying member in a hospital. When my mother-in-law had a major stroke at age 89, she could no longer swallow or move. She couldn't talk. My daughter asked a doctor friend to come in and see her; he told the family that there was no hope. He also said she was suffering from dehydration and paralysis. He gave her a dose of morphine and she went peacefully. I believe that most family members faced with these decisions do take into account the suffering involved. It is sometimes best to let someone you love go peacefully when all treatment has failed.
10
So many comments here seem to blame millennials and other young Americans who ostensibly benefit from this plan. This is a smoke and fire and lights show by Republicans to hide who is really to blame, pulling the levers behind the curtains: the wealthy who can now pay slightly less on their taxes.
39
It's the American Health Destruction Act. What a cynical move to punish the older generation simply for being old. And will the adult children of the older parents then have to foot the bill of their parents healthcare? If so, where's the savings for the young? - The Republican Party has lost its moral compass, if it ever had one. Young and old: fight back!
47
TrumpCare is a yuuuuuge boondoggle gift for insurance companies. It means social security income (that the elderly get now, to live on), will go to insurance companies -- in the form of "if-you-wanna-live premiums".
So now, much of social security money will go to insurance companies....
...briefly passing through the hands of the elderly
(who will also have to pay taxes on it)
Shout it to congress (and everyone):
TrumpCare is NOT healthcare! TrumpCare is Corporate Welfare!
So now, much of social security money will go to insurance companies....
...briefly passing through the hands of the elderly
(who will also have to pay taxes on it)
Shout it to congress (and everyone):
TrumpCare is NOT healthcare! TrumpCare is Corporate Welfare!
39
Nothing is so hard for those who abound in riches as to conceive how others can be in want.
49
And even this "tough luck to the poor and old" is too generous for the Kochs & their paid-for Congressfolk.
We'll be having die-ins in front of WH and in the streets instead of protests. So that the wealthy don't have to share one bit. It's their belief, serfs, don't quibble.
We'll be having die-ins in front of WH and in the streets instead of protests. So that the wealthy don't have to share one bit. It's their belief, serfs, don't quibble.
23
The GOP is the party which has made tax cuts several time on the economic concept of trickle down economics. It hasn't worked, but they keep on doing it. Now they are asking us to believe that insurance rates will decline by 10% based on competition. I would like to see the analysis which supports that hypothesis, or was it something just grasped out of thin air?
20
Thanks to Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Ohio. Plus the Bernie folks who couldn't stoop to vote for Hillary.
13
nominating Hillary was the biggest gift from democrats to any republican who would have been their nominee. Trump looked credible in front of Hillary who was well known for terrible campaigning and vision. Sanders brought many people to the booth who voted for Hillary closing their noses. If not the gap would have been even further. I hope that democrats learnt from their mistake of voting for who they think will win when the data shows otherwise. Bernie would have stopped Trump but DNC cheated.
2
Plus James Comey AND Hillary herself who couldn't stoop to visiting Wisconsin or Michigan or addressing, nay, including the white working/middle class in her campaign S&T.
2
One wonders if our esteemed GOP members of Congress have ANY family members or good friends who are low-income, middle-class, mentally or chronically physically ill, CHILDREN, older folk, or the like, whom they actually CARE about.
Tell them that they have to accept the same Healthcare plans they are trying to foist upon us, and then see what happens.
Remind them that they are working for US, not the other way 'round.
Tell them that they have to accept the same Healthcare plans they are trying to foist upon us, and then see what happens.
Remind them that they are working for US, not the other way 'round.
28
Here's the problem. Everyone has their head in the sand about our out-of-control costs.
Per capita, our healthcare costs twice as much as Switzerland. Our drugs are 5x the cost of identical drugs from Canada.
These new payment plans all just put new lipstick on this old pig.
We currently spend 20% of the GNP on Healthcare. Simply not sustainable.
Focus on the costs, not on the payments. Wrong end of the telescope.
Per capita, our healthcare costs twice as much as Switzerland. Our drugs are 5x the cost of identical drugs from Canada.
These new payment plans all just put new lipstick on this old pig.
We currently spend 20% of the GNP on Healthcare. Simply not sustainable.
Focus on the costs, not on the payments. Wrong end of the telescope.
32
The Obama admin blew it when they didn't tackle the insurance and medical industry prior to the health care act. (I am an Obama supporter) They blew it when they didn't create a jobs act that would have provided meaningful work for men in our urban areas. We are stuck in the same position we were 10 years ago. Out of control medical costs and cities teetering on the brink of violence.
1
Canada has medical reviews for seriously, terminally ill patients. They do not keep all patients alive, stored in hospital beds. They also allow terminally ill patients to opt out of treatment which will prolong life with no quality or hope of recovery. This is also true in Europe. One question occurs to me: who benefits by keeping a terminally ill patient alive with expensive equipment? The hospital does; the patient and the family do not benefit.
12
Obama did present a Jobs Bill; it never made it to the floor for a vote; it was loaded with poison pills and died. Obama had an infrastructure bill; that also died. Look at a Republican controlled Congress who wanted Obama to fail, and they mostly succeeded. They were not able to stop the ACA from going forward; it went to the Supreme Court and was ruled constitutional. So it went for a vote and passed. A long arduous battle. Elect Democratic Governors who will undo gerrymandered Districts. Get a Democratic, civilized Congress in place. Government will improve. FDR gave us Social Security; Truman gave us Medicare; Eisenhower gave us the interstate highway system and he warned against the "military/Industrial complex. He was right. We now have that complex full on.
8
Our annual Federal budget is now roughly $3 trillion annually. That's $30 trillion in a decade. So, $300 billion over ten years is 1% of the Federal budget.
And this is going to be Ryan's and the Republicans' big macro-economic game changer? To drop the Federal budget by 1%?
Please folks: Do pay attention to arithmetic. Objects in certain smoke and mirrors appear larger than they actually are.
And this is going to be Ryan's and the Republicans' big macro-economic game changer? To drop the Federal budget by 1%?
Please folks: Do pay attention to arithmetic. Objects in certain smoke and mirrors appear larger than they actually are.
28
Is it any surprise that the Health Insurance Industry has been involved in drafting the necessary paperwork to Repeal Affordable Health Care, and Replace it with Something with a Twist? Something that the Insurance Industry lov des, increase the young and healthy, and forget about the old and sicker people in our Society. Medicaid, of course will be omitted, and the next stop will be "privatizing" (outsourcing) Social Security and Medicare.
https://thetruthoncommonsense.com
https://thetruthoncommonsense.com
15
Wall Street has wanted to get its hands on Social Security and Medicare; lots of money in those benefit venues. They keep pushing. This should never happen.
8
US laws prevent bargaining to bring down drug prices, patent laws allow drug companies longer times before generics are allowed, the GOP's proposed law allows insurance companies to charge older people 5 times as much instead of 3 times? When government sets the rules for insurance companies and drug companies to
18
Our government negotiates drug prices. Many of our drugs come from Asia and webare encouraged to use generics. Google PBS Australia. This is what you should be getting.
10
My blood pressure meds came from China and caused a sever reaction as per the warnings. I looked the company up and even the Chinese had issues with their quality control, Zhejiang Huahui Pharma. Co. I had the meds changed to a different country. Problem gone.
4
Expeditious is the word that defines the GOP answer to the ACA.
These are people who have healthcare through the government and typically better financial circumstances than your average consumer and have no concerns for the voters especially the older ones. These are the same elected officials who want to trim Medicare and Social Security, two other programs that benefit older Americans. This approach is made possible by cutting taxes to benefit the wealthy and corporations under the guise of smaller government. This is an activist government for the few, not the majority.
These are people who have healthcare through the government and typically better financial circumstances than your average consumer and have no concerns for the voters especially the older ones. These are the same elected officials who want to trim Medicare and Social Security, two other programs that benefit older Americans. This approach is made possible by cutting taxes to benefit the wealthy and corporations under the guise of smaller government. This is an activist government for the few, not the majority.
32
Re: Medicare and Social Security, government should not be competing with private enterprise for health insurance dollars or retirement savings plans. Period. It is unconscionable that more than 12% is removed (effectively by force) from the US economy for the purpose of retirement planning while banning not only private investment but inheritance rights as well.
You don't know what you are talking about. Inheritance rights are not even an issue and inheritance rights are a function of state law. Btw the 12% you speak of is in the economy in the form of paying hospitals, doctors and Big Pharma. It is in the economy as much as food purchases are in the economy.
2
Paul Ryan professes to be anti-government and pro-capitalism but has always been paid a taxpayer funded salary. In addition, when his father died his family relied on government handouts to survive. That he would now want to retract the helping hand of government to those who need it is deplorable.
58
Ryan also went to university on Federal grant money. He has never had any money, other than Federal money. And, he isn't even that smart.
3
He also went to university on government handouts in the form of Federal education grants. Unfortunately, he wasn't ever that bright. Now we have him in Congress shilling for big donors. McConnell has never helped the miners who die from black lung disease, and in unsafe mine accidents. He stays in NYC until election time rolls around and then he goes home, gets in a battered old pickup and makes his rounds. He makes sure that the State agents are paid off. Mines are now polluting rivers and streams with mining sludge from mountain top mining. It pours down the mountain into the local waters. Ryan and McConnell are two of the worst people currently in Congress.
4
The good news if this passes is that there has never been a better time to invest in funeral homes, casket manufacturers or cemeteries! (I say this as gallows humor, but I have a sick feeling that it is true.)
18
Carol, I think you are partly right. However, before that point is reached, as a result of a large number of presently insured individuals become uninsured, there is one social negative that definitely will occur. The crime rate will go up. People with few resources who incur large medical bills because they are uninsured will turn to crime out of necessity to get themselves out of hock. You can go very long when you have few assets and a negative cash flow.
6
Kind of reminds me of the death panels that the Repubs always brought up :-(
3
Yesterday Paul Ryan told us his family came to America because of the failure of the potato crop. That is like everything else about the GOP is false history. Paul Ryan's family came to America because for the same reason America cannot have a single payer universal healthcare system. Paul Ryan's family came to America because Ireland's economy was based on food export and The Economist and the right wing economic gurus of the time decided it was better to dispose of the peasants rather than feed them and that allowing cheap donated imported food into Ireland jeopardized Ireland's place in the world of fine food export.
Ireland exported enough meat, cheese and grain each year of the potato blight to feed the one million peasants that died and the million of peasants that were deported. There was no famine, Ireland had enough food but like the Ryan's poor, elderly and sick Ireland saw fit to let its "takers" disappear.
Jonathan Swift wrote about Ireland's potato eaters one hundred and twenty years before the blight and how malnourishment from an all potato diet made them ignorant, and lethargic. Swift said it all when he talked about Irish babies and their mothers would be better off if the babies of Ireland could be sold to grace the tables of the world's privileged.
The rationing of food to exterminate two million peasants was economic much as Ryan's healthcare is not about healthcare but comforting the comfortable and disposing of disposables.
It was a genocide.
Ireland exported enough meat, cheese and grain each year of the potato blight to feed the one million peasants that died and the million of peasants that were deported. There was no famine, Ireland had enough food but like the Ryan's poor, elderly and sick Ireland saw fit to let its "takers" disappear.
Jonathan Swift wrote about Ireland's potato eaters one hundred and twenty years before the blight and how malnourishment from an all potato diet made them ignorant, and lethargic. Swift said it all when he talked about Irish babies and their mothers would be better off if the babies of Ireland could be sold to grace the tables of the world's privileged.
The rationing of food to exterminate two million peasants was economic much as Ryan's healthcare is not about healthcare but comforting the comfortable and disposing of disposables.
It was a genocide.
56
My family came from Ireland; paternal side owned land, sold it to British aristocrats and got out with enough money to hire a wagon train and head West on the Oregon Trail. They sent the first Senator to D.C. from Oregon. The maternal side were poor; the women were exceptionally pretty and managed to get out and work as domestic staff. One of them met a postal worker who married her and took her to SF to open the first Federal post office. She did well and raised a family. The other one married George M. Cohan who was a vaudevillian with an eye for a pretty girl. They married and went to New York. The family never heard from her again. There are so many immigrant stories. Steve Jobs is one of those. No doubt the recent immigrant arrivals will also succeed and produce a genius or two.
2
Jonathan Swift already wrote the book on this one.
17
Great. Push older Americans out of the insurance pool and into the nation's emergency rooms. Taxpayers pay, ultimately, for the emergency rooms, too. So, either way, we pay. Only we pay more when people with no access to routine medical services rely on emergency rooms.
It's a shell game.
It's a shell game.
51
Glad you brought this up, JimBob. I recall this issue was a selling point for Mr. Obama's program. As I read, I am wondering where the statistics are on emergency room utilization before and after the advent of the Affordable Care Act. ALL medical facilities have utilization review departments. The numbers are out there somewhere. Let's see them.
4
The TrRyan Healthcare plan - remember that phrase folks - is only tryimg to make the weathy wealthier and the old and poor sicker. I'll continue to live a relatively comfortable life either way as the impact to me and my family will be tangental. For many of my fellow Americans, it will impart varing degrees of pain and suffering, through both sickness and varing degrees of financial stress. I for one cannot look myself in the mirror knowing that the small incremental monitary lift that I will realize will result in such suffering. I don't claim to be a Christian, or a man of great faith. Im just a felliw american that happens to care about his fellow americans. All mankind for that matter.
48
You're in the same situation I am and I care about my fellow Americans. I am still amazed by Trump supporters but not in a positive way. Great comment
24
Then contribute your assets to charity but keep the government's hands out of my pockets.
I like to call it Republicare (stolen from a popular website) that way there is no scape goat(s).
I feel exactly the same way you do. Ultimately My family and I won't feel much effect from this (heck I might even make out better!), but I care for the others that will feel it. I believe that's called empathy?
I feel exactly the same way you do. Ultimately My family and I won't feel much effect from this (heck I might even make out better!), but I care for the others that will feel it. I believe that's called empathy?
3
How can the party that claimed Obamacare would create death panels tell the American people with a straight face that causing 24M people to lose health insurance, with significant price increases for the elderly, that their proposed legislation is a better solution? Forcing people to lose coverage is not a choice. Forcing the poor/elderly to pay significantly higher premiums is not a choice. I am appalled that in a country as rich as America that we have anyone who does not have health insurance. Obama certainly misspoke when he promised that "you can keep your doctor," but it pales in comparison to President Trump's lie that "everyone will be able to have insurance and it will be cheaper." No insurance is certainly cheaper, but its not health insurance.
45
Obama said many comments like that. for all his smarts his propensity for the glib was a true Achilles heel. that he did not learn is puzzling. that said--how on earth did we go from him to a train wreck?
3
We allowed Hillary Clinton to be slandered for 26 years; we allowed the GOP to lie about her. She was a good NY State Senator; she was a good Secty. of State who was kneecapped by Ryan when she asked for funds to protect remote consulates. Ambassador Stevens died after insurgents overcame the two Marines who died trying to protect the residence. It was set on fire, and Stevens died from smoke inhalation. Clinton was blamed; Paul Ryan denied the funds and walked away from the tragedy. He is a shill for rich donors.
14
Great point, U028477 -- So-called death panels surfaced in my memory, too. The Republicans are able to do this with a straight face because they are so good at fighting dirty. The Democrats need get their game up.
4
Aaa s the GOP and right wing media raged about fake death panels with he ACA! They've created their own and they're real!
14
Follow the money. It's the insurance companies who are pulling the strings. I don't know how Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell sleep at night . . . and they're Irish!! Shame on them!
14
Everyone gets old. All of us will need a doctor sooner or later. Healthcare for all!
25
Very true. But also true is that young people get sick, do dumb things and get hurt, and we all run the risk of being hit by some drunk driver. We all need insurance. You never know when you will be stricken with some genetic disease.
Regardless, why do the Republicans think that people should not be mandated to buy health insurance to spread the cost, whereas everyone who drives a car is mandated to buy insurance, regardless of how safe a driver you are. They are complete liars.
Regardless, why do the Republicans think that people should not be mandated to buy health insurance to spread the cost, whereas everyone who drives a car is mandated to buy insurance, regardless of how safe a driver you are. They are complete liars.
14
I think we all need healthcare. Not health 'insurance'.
it becomes clearer to me that we need Medicare for all.
The Repubs are repugnant and heartless.
it becomes clearer to me that we need Medicare for all.
The Repubs are repugnant and heartless.
7
Wouldn't it be cheaper and provide more stimulus for the economy to provide universal health care? If employers didn't have to pay for health insurance for their staff they could increase hourly rates especially minimum wage. Yes, we would still pay via a tax, but in the end would this be a more efficient way to manage the rising cost problem?
25
If we had a government we could trust to run such a system, yes, but alas....
4
Laurie, we already have that great system you recommend. It's called Medicare and along with Social Security is the most popular and successful program in US history. Unfortunately it's only available for people over 65 and the government refuses the expand it because they are in the pockets of the health insurance industry.
13
Handouts and "investments" with guaranteed returns are always popular.
When I'm ready to die within the next 10 years, unable to afford hospitalization, I will be sure to teeter myself to the sidewalk in front of the White House and expire there. This will be in destitution, because I will have spent any money I had on my parents' end of life care.
55
It seems Mr. Ryan lacks the mental faculties to distinguish the difference between "does not want" and "can no longer afford" - interesting for someone who purports to understand money well.
47
He may understand money. He doesn't care to understand humanity.
37
Ryan grew up on Federal welfare, his father's disability benefits. He went to university on Federal grant money. There is nothing admirable about this man.
1
This situation is so deplorable. Many people have commented already about the insurance companies but for me, I lay a lot of blame at the feet of big pharma and medical equipment manufacturers also. The cost of drugs is through the roof and guys like the jerk who is now the most hated man in America should not be allowed to raise the price of medication by a 1,000% and not be held to account for it.
Some of the younger generation should keep in mind also, that they are going to age and be on the other side of the fence. It's too far off for many to give it much thought right now, but in the mean time, your parents or grandparents might already be at the age where they may not be able to afford care or specialized treatment. This inhumane and dispassionate way of tossing aside the elderly and poor has to stop. When is enough finally going to be enough?
Some of the younger generation should keep in mind also, that they are going to age and be on the other side of the fence. It's too far off for many to give it much thought right now, but in the mean time, your parents or grandparents might already be at the age where they may not be able to afford care or specialized treatment. This inhumane and dispassionate way of tossing aside the elderly and poor has to stop. When is enough finally going to be enough?
23
In the short time since the election I feel like I have gone from a country I love to feeling trapped in a country I no longer recognize
55
You are not the only one. And what makes it worse is that we are watching it all unfold on TV and can't do anything about it till it's too late.
14
Our country's no longer recognizable. It's turning into a greedy swamp.
This is the power of this mental illness (ironically, TrumpCare will not provide sufficient coverage for even narcissistic personality disorder -- which he suffers from).
This mental illness is much more than about simple narcissism. It makes people afflicted with it, care about no one else... other than themselves. It robs them of any empathy, humanity, or caring they may have had (but it's clear Trump never had any anyway). They spend every bit of energy and moment, trying to benefit themselves (to dig out of their emotional "you are a loser" hole/hold -- they never will). We see this in his avarice, his greedy self-benefiting (e.g. his weekly trips to Mar-a-Largess result in a profit for Trump, where the Secret Service spend $100,000 per weekend in hotel rooms, food, etc. -- straight into Trump's bank accounts).
Sad that our country must suffer, for this Neo-Nero's afflictions.
This is the power of this mental illness (ironically, TrumpCare will not provide sufficient coverage for even narcissistic personality disorder -- which he suffers from).
This mental illness is much more than about simple narcissism. It makes people afflicted with it, care about no one else... other than themselves. It robs them of any empathy, humanity, or caring they may have had (but it's clear Trump never had any anyway). They spend every bit of energy and moment, trying to benefit themselves (to dig out of their emotional "you are a loser" hole/hold -- they never will). We see this in his avarice, his greedy self-benefiting (e.g. his weekly trips to Mar-a-Largess result in a profit for Trump, where the Secret Service spend $100,000 per weekend in hotel rooms, food, etc. -- straight into Trump's bank accounts).
Sad that our country must suffer, for this Neo-Nero's afflictions.
4
Medicare does NOT paying for long-term nursing care. Medicaid does. This is for the younger folks: under Ryan and Co's plan, which calls for a 25% reduction in Medicaid, when your parents need long-term Alzheimer nursing care how do you feel about picking up the 25% Medicaid won't pay? (a good $2,000 per month per parent) Or you can always build an addition to your home and take them in. Some parents may have long-term insurance or a substantial nest egg but as it stands the majority do not. Ponder that.
30
Well said. My mother and I survived the American nightmare of trying to find a nursing home for my father after his first stroke in the later stages of Alzheimer's. Non- Medicaid cost for the only place I would even have considered: $9000/month. Cash money. Of course, the home was happy to tell of us the plan available to us if we did not want to leave my mother destitute after several years -- 'disown' him , essentially turn my father into a pauper to get on Medicaid. And those Medicaid rooms? Shockingly worse level of care was immediately apparent via the stench of them. We cared for him at home with help.
13
It's not $2,000 per month. It is more like 6,000 to 10,000 per month. I hope I die suddenly. Maybe I'll spontaneously combust.
7
There are some small family places which take in old people on Medicaid. My mother was in one for the last few years of her life. She died in her own bed at age 96; the Colombian family who cared for her the kindest people I ever met.
I don't know what you are all complaining about, they should just choose to not be old.
13
"Logan's Run", right? That would include the millennial as well. Why not.
4
actually-- there is nothing wrong with choosing to not be old; it is the ultimate liberation.
2
Here's a thought. How about the new Health Care plan provides the same benefits to all legal Americans that members of Congress get? Think Paul Ryan can work that in? I'm suggesting this to him, given that it appears that he has no understanding of economics, trade or health care.
27
does this mean we are back to instituting death panels?
12
You do not need death panels. Just make insurance so expensive that the average Joe can't afford it.
11
yes, but they have access!!
4
Why hasn't Paul Ryan's priest, bishop, and archbishop threatened him with excommunication from the Catholic Church, since Ryan's words and actions advocate policies that will result in the deaths of hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of Americans; since Ryan's words and actions would gleefully take the $337-billion of "savings" and apply them towards a WEALTHCARE Tax Refund for billionaires? What type of human being advocates this type of policy -- a policy of Conservative-Republican DEATH PANELS? We are talking about people's lives here.
38
Well, one of my favorite unpleasant numbers is done with just a bit of easy calculation.
The bill would save $337 billion over 10 years, and I ballpark maybe an average over those years of 20 million uninsured who would be insured under Obamacare.
So we're saving about $1600 per year per newly uninsured person. (So we won't even pay $1600 a year to keep each now-insured person insured, when the average person in the U.S. gets $10,000 per year of health care.)
This $1600 a year number shows us exactly where Republican values are at. A person's health care is just not worth even that little to them.
The bill would save $337 billion over 10 years, and I ballpark maybe an average over those years of 20 million uninsured who would be insured under Obamacare.
So we're saving about $1600 per year per newly uninsured person. (So we won't even pay $1600 a year to keep each now-insured person insured, when the average person in the U.S. gets $10,000 per year of health care.)
This $1600 a year number shows us exactly where Republican values are at. A person's health care is just not worth even that little to them.
17
They need the money to build the wall.
7
OK, let's go there and assume the oldest among us will lose their health insurance. It would be a republican dream for the old to just get sick and fade away, and for the young to be rewarded for signing up for health insurance. But eventually it will dawn on the young that their parents have inadequate or no health insurance, and the burden of their medical care will fall on their children.
27
Well, yes. In Japan children are responsible for the care of their parents. Why not here? No one gets a free ride any more, especially not when Ryan tells us how we should manage our health care.
7
It might also dawn on these young people that they are also mortal. They will get old and eventually die. Perhaps it will be on the street or earlier than needed, but at least no rich people will be inconvenienced by having to pay a few extra dollars in taxes for nursing homes or doctors visits for old people who are poor. Currently, they aren't talking about dismantling Medicare. That's next.
8
And what about people who don't have children? Just put them on an iceberg . . . no wait there won't be any icebergs. Okay, push them over a cliff. The Nazis started their exterminations with the elderly, the mentally ill and the infirm. Later they got to the Jews. We are all in this boat together. Whenever anyone suggests that there should be winners and losers in health insurance, they should remember that there but for the Grace of God (or fate) it could be them who is now "undesirable" and "undeserving" of health care.
8
The title of the article says it all about Ryan's expertise in economics.
14
More people will die early. Just think how much money the government will save on Social Security and other pensions. Go Trump and the GOP! You're true Americans. Precious!
14
After you pay well over 2K per month on my Alzheimer's through Medicare or whatever. People in my family live well into their 80's, maybe 90's. Some people think Im 38, I'm 54.
Yes. I remember back just 5 years ago, prior to Obamacare, when the streets were littered with the dead and dying.
Oh, wait...
Oh, wait...
It may be time to make ourselves visible in Washington - calls and letters are not enough.
28
If it's so good I can't wait for Ryan and the entire GOP to drop their congressional healthcare and move over to Trumpcare.
31
During the election the pundits were saying that Donald Trump was changing the Republican Party. That for years the Republican Party had not supported the working class and that Donald Trump understood them and would look out for them and had brought them back as Ronald Reagan had done. Well the Republican health care bill proves that the Republican has changed Donald Trump and not visa versa. They obviously don't care about the working class. The choice they provide in healthcare is the "choice" not to have health care The savings they predict will all go into the pockets of the rich. And hard working Americans will once again be left behind by the Republican Party If they expect the "Trump " democrats will stick with them they have a big surprise coming in the next election
14
"Hardworking" Americans? Have you ever renewed your license at the DMV or been on a checkout line at Walmart?
Yes, there will be people in their early 60s dying for lack of health care if they're priced out of health insurance, but there's much more the Republicans should consider. There will be many people of this age who will nonetheless be somewhat lucky - the ones who put off seeking medical help for a few years until they're enrolled in Medicare, but are not too late to get their health issues under control, at a much higher cost to the system than would have been incurred if they'd seen a doctor earlier and nipped the problem in the bud.
31
but Ryan wants to undermine medicare, too!
5
I recall the Congressional Budget Office signing off on Obamacare.
What happened there?
How did they get it so wrong?
What happened there?
How did they get it so wrong?
3
The Supreme Court ruled that states could not be required to expand Medicaid and Marco Rubio eliminated risk corridors which forced many insurers out of the market.
13
Targeting the old--what a great country we've become.
Pauperizing college graduates and those that failed to finish-- my how we've matured - E Pluribus Unum.
Thank you Republicans-- some of us have not forgotten your ugly traditional stripes.
Pauperizing college graduates and those that failed to finish-- my how we've matured - E Pluribus Unum.
Thank you Republicans-- some of us have not forgotten your ugly traditional stripes.
31
It isn't just the old who will die earlier. It is the newborns with medical issues, or the moms who don't get proper prenatal care.
10
I am tired of corporate welfare. One plan after another in order to keep the insurance companies and Big Pharma rich in profits. The cost of health care has priced itself out of the market. We are paying for advertising, lobbying in addition to profits for insurance companies and drug companies. To fix this problem the government has to subsidize premiums.
If all of us paid our premiums into Medicare, for example, we would save 20% percent or more. If we paid what other countries pay for their drugs (Canada at 50%) we would save 50% on our drugs.
If all of us paid our premiums into Medicare, for example, we would save 20% percent or more. If we paid what other countries pay for their drugs (Canada at 50%) we would save 50% on our drugs.
32
it's high time we listen to Nancy Pelosi " you won't know what is in the bill until it is passes". A sage observation. The ACA got passed despite warnings that it would be much more expensive than proposed and leave out 20 million.
1
You have no idea what your talking about. The ACA has more than paid for itself, even lowering the deficit a little. It has served millions, in spite of republican efforts to sabotage it. If the Medicaid expansion had included all 50 states, and if the risk corridors had been retained, things republicans blocked, millions more would have been helped. The ACA was out and available for anyone to read long before it passed. If representatives in government failed to take the time, shame on them. Taken from Gallup:
"The U.S. uninsured rate for health insurance remained at 10.9% in the fourth quarter of 2016. This matches the rate in the third quarter, which in turn marked the record low since Gallup and Healthways began tracking insurance coverage in 2008"
Not anyone's definition of failure, unless you are willing to lie about it for political gain.
"The U.S. uninsured rate for health insurance remained at 10.9% in the fourth quarter of 2016. This matches the rate in the third quarter, which in turn marked the record low since Gallup and Healthways began tracking insurance coverage in 2008"
Not anyone's definition of failure, unless you are willing to lie about it for political gain.
21
it is more expensive and it has left out 20 million
1
more expensive than no health insurance, yes. more expensive because Republicans forced the price up by killing the risk corridors (which Rubio bragged about!), yes. left 20 million uncovered because numerous Republican-governed states refused to expand Medicaid, yes.
Would single-payer for all have been better? Yes. Would Republicans have stopped single payer in committee and we'd have got no change at all and we'd still have 40-60 million uncovered? Emphatically yes.
Please shut up.
Would single-payer for all have been better? Yes. Would Republicans have stopped single payer in committee and we'd have got no change at all and we'd still have 40-60 million uncovered? Emphatically yes.
Please shut up.
Sounds like the workplace where older workers are shunned because their coverage cost more. Whats civil about the liberty and justice against the old? Smoke and mirrors Ryan. Pathetic. I think that we ought to look at outsourcing Congress and the Senate. Let save some money. A person who had top tier health care for life ought not be making any decisions about who gets to live or die.
26
What's Your Problem?
I'm shocked, shocked that in the last 100 years we have seen tbe GOP we saw it target the poor, woking class ...and in the last 55-ish years the middle class as well.
I'm shocked, shocked that in the last 100 years we have seen tbe GOP we saw it target the poor, woking class ...and in the last 55-ish years the middle class as well.
20
Where is the humanity? What has happened to us? The rhetoric is merely confabulation to slip tax cuts for the wealthy in the back door. I am embarrassed to be an American.
43
Paul Ryan's war on elderly Americans is now in full swing. Social security will be next. Such a heartless man.
51
Social Security is a socialist abomination that was foisted on us by FDR bad that needs to be repealed while we have the chance. Ponzi schemes do not magically become legal just because they're run by the government.
If you're on Obamacare, you've probably gotten a letter every fall saying your premiums will increase the following year. Or that you've been kicked to an HMO. Or that your plan's co-pays went up. The real verdict on the Republican health law will come in the fall, when I get that letter again. And then again in 2018, 2019 and every year until 2026. You see, that's the magic year. That year my health insurance company will decide to give me a premium that's 10 percent lower than what it was in 2017. Even though I aged nine years, they decided to discount it. And they also said my plan's benefits, co-pays and deductibles will be just the same as 2017. WHATEVS! HA HA HA
3
I heard Ali Velshi say this morning that the 10% decrease will NOT be lower than 2017 but will be 10% lower than the year before (2025). :(
8
Hey Red States, you got your man. Way to go. You must be so happy. All you have to do is not get sick until forever.
Hey coal miners over 50, boy have you been left out to die, I mean dry. Forget black lung disease, your are going to get Trump disease.
Middle class, write your will soon because your going to die when you get your first major malady.
To the really poor, you will be getting single payer health care soon since the ER will now be your full time doctors office. At least some group will be like the rest of the world.
To the really rich, will you employ a sick person, an immigrant or make your child cut your lawn, clean your pool or wax your fancy car? Since one will be dead, one not allowed here I guess your little richie-rich will have to get their fingernails dirty.
To Mr. Trump, do you think $54 billion is enough for the military? You know, those guys who mismanaged and wasted 22% of their budget last year? Give them more pleeese. What's health when you can have a new battleship.
Mr. Ryan, who's will be left to give you your free haircut at taxpayer expense? I doubt Mr. McConnell is very good with a pair of scissors unless he's cutting another safety net program.
Who would have thunk?
Hey coal miners over 50, boy have you been left out to die, I mean dry. Forget black lung disease, your are going to get Trump disease.
Middle class, write your will soon because your going to die when you get your first major malady.
To the really poor, you will be getting single payer health care soon since the ER will now be your full time doctors office. At least some group will be like the rest of the world.
To the really rich, will you employ a sick person, an immigrant or make your child cut your lawn, clean your pool or wax your fancy car? Since one will be dead, one not allowed here I guess your little richie-rich will have to get their fingernails dirty.
To Mr. Trump, do you think $54 billion is enough for the military? You know, those guys who mismanaged and wasted 22% of their budget last year? Give them more pleeese. What's health when you can have a new battleship.
Mr. Ryan, who's will be left to give you your free haircut at taxpayer expense? I doubt Mr. McConnell is very good with a pair of scissors unless he's cutting another safety net program.
Who would have thunk?
52
I couldn't have expressed it any better! Hey Republicans - this will all come back you. No more Obama to blame. You own it!
19
"Mr. Ryan has said that it is appropriate that the G.O.P. plan will cause more Americans to go without health insurance because it doesn’t have a mandate that people buy coverage or pay a penalty. 'We’re saying the government’s not going to force people to buy something that they don’t want to buy'," says Paul Ryan. No, those older Americans will want health insurance coverage, but they simply cannot afford it under the GOP plan. Another example of deliberate, deplorable Republican lies.
Here's a suggestion: modify the Medicare mandate to cover Americans at 55 and then decreasing ages over the next decade, until all Americans are covered by the program. Allow Medicare to negotiate drug prices, equipment, and all other medical services. This preserves 'freedom' -- Medicare patients can choose doctors in all 50 states, larger than any network in the private market -- while reducing costs, something the GOP plan does not do.
Here's a suggestion: modify the Medicare mandate to cover Americans at 55 and then decreasing ages over the next decade, until all Americans are covered by the program. Allow Medicare to negotiate drug prices, equipment, and all other medical services. This preserves 'freedom' -- Medicare patients can choose doctors in all 50 states, larger than any network in the private market -- while reducing costs, something the GOP plan does not do.
38
You are right on
2
GOP to USA: RIP
18
Be patriotic! Die early.
17
Trump and cohorts knew this GOP plan was DOA from the start but it has taken out Ryan and the Freedom Caucus, defanged them both. Now they go on to the real plan all along to starve Obamacare and no replacement necessary. ACA will die a pauper's death. Trump and the GOP will say, we told you so, it's no good. Then next they'll be on to Medicaid. To be sure these will be big hits on our economy, jobs lost, companies out of business and many hospitals closed not just in the Red states.The moderate Republicans just don't have the gumption to start that investigation. The Alt-right and Putin are cunning and appear successful hiding behind Trump, their stooge
16
Why not test this new plan in one state as an experiment? I suggest Arizona, which has the least to lose under the ACA.
13
I can remembering thinking in 1984 that maybe George Orwell had gotten things wrong. Turns out that he may have been off by few years but when it comes to the fundamentals... he hadn't.
15
Otherwise known as #ThrowMamaFromTheTrain.
Parisitic politicians!
Parisitic politicians!
27
congress should be mandated to go on whatever healthcare plan they vote in for the people both now and when they get older at the same price as the rest of us pay. they would think a little more about the details of the health plan.
14
Seniors are soon to die anyway- so just let them die- sarcasm
13
That's right, kill all the poor and old. They have no value. The GOP only values fetuses!!
55
There is something so cruel and heartless about this entire fiasco.
13
The article is a total fraud, older Americans are on MEDICARE unaffected by the Republican plan.
1
Not until they are 65. Listen up.
4
Only the ones who are at least 65. "Older" in this article refers to those in their early 60s and also in their 50s who benefited or would benefit from the ACA because of lack of access to affordable employer-based insurance. It refers to those who work(ed) for small companies that could not offer insurance, to those self-employed, to those forced to retire early and start collecting social security at 62, just as an example. So no, the article is not a fraud.
7
The Republican plan, phase one, has a sort of interesting twist on the Pro Life concept.
16
The GOP are greedy haters.
They hate poor people, old people and sick people.
They love rich people. The rich don't want to pay ANY taxes, for anything. The "make" their money by exploiting average people, and then they use every trick in the book to keep it all -- buying off Congressmen with bribes and bogus "campaign contributions."
I would not be surprised if the GOP plan's fine-print includes a "final solution" for all these inconvenient people who cannot afford to spend half their annual income on health insurance and deductibles. Gas chambers. Morphine pumps till people stop breathing. Free cyanide. Starvation and dehydration for two weeks works fine.
And why is America paying 18 percent of its GDP on health care, twice as much as the other industrialized economies? The health insurers and health providers are also lining their pockets with cash -- they don't care about the poor, the old or the sick either. Not really -- just for the purpose of getting as much money out of the system as possible.
18 percent of the GDP -- and the GDP hides the fact that the average person is getting lower wages in real terms -- all of the "growth" in the GDP is going to the rich.
The ratio of real dollars paid to get health care for the average family over the real dollars earned by the average family has gone up even more than the two-fold rise in the health care percent of GDP figure (which went from 10 percent to 18 percent in the last 30 years).
They hate poor people, old people and sick people.
They love rich people. The rich don't want to pay ANY taxes, for anything. The "make" their money by exploiting average people, and then they use every trick in the book to keep it all -- buying off Congressmen with bribes and bogus "campaign contributions."
I would not be surprised if the GOP plan's fine-print includes a "final solution" for all these inconvenient people who cannot afford to spend half their annual income on health insurance and deductibles. Gas chambers. Morphine pumps till people stop breathing. Free cyanide. Starvation and dehydration for two weeks works fine.
And why is America paying 18 percent of its GDP on health care, twice as much as the other industrialized economies? The health insurers and health providers are also lining their pockets with cash -- they don't care about the poor, the old or the sick either. Not really -- just for the purpose of getting as much money out of the system as possible.
18 percent of the GDP -- and the GDP hides the fact that the average person is getting lower wages in real terms -- all of the "growth" in the GDP is going to the rich.
The ratio of real dollars paid to get health care for the average family over the real dollars earned by the average family has gone up even more than the two-fold rise in the health care percent of GDP figure (which went from 10 percent to 18 percent in the last 30 years).
14
Did the CBO factor in the cost of insurance increasing due to the hospitals charging more, due to all of the uninsured getting care and someone has to pay for it? Somehow, all people get sick and need a doctor. Uninsured go to the ER, an expensive way to treat the ill.
18
This discussion is about taking away health insurance from people.
No it isn't.
It's about taking away subsidies from certain people.
Where do subsidies come from?
Somebody has to get up every day and leave home and family and go to work, so as to pay the government so it can hand out the subsidies to a select number of people.
The government is acting as a middleman to take money from certain people to give to others.
All the rest is just double talk.
No it isn't.
It's about taking away subsidies from certain people.
Where do subsidies come from?
Somebody has to get up every day and leave home and family and go to work, so as to pay the government so it can hand out the subsidies to a select number of people.
The government is acting as a middleman to take money from certain people to give to others.
All the rest is just double talk.
2
Absolutely. It's called our communal risk pool, and it's what we have when we buy (mandated) car insurance, home insurance, life insurance, or pay taxes for police/fire, military, roads, education, scientific research, the court system, the park service, FAA, air traffic controllers, and on and on: we all communally pay into support structures and services some of us may never use or benefit from. It's called civilization. It's called creating a quality of life in our country that strives to improve all lives not just the most "worthy", because we can never know when we will be the ones that suddenly need a service. Why is health care treated differently from everything else in society we have (maybe grudgingly) agreed to pay into? We need single-payer health care: doctors and hospitals you can go to without a bill (or nominal), like every other modern country with a high quality of life.
23
T.O.: Aren't a lot of these somebody's also working people? Some of them are children who, at least for now, can't get up in the morning and go to work. Or, others are disabled, and can't work for various reasons. Maybe they're too old and sick to get up in the morning to go to work anymore. We will all be old and sick someday. Think about it.
8
Yes, but I got up and worked everyday during the Iraq war and paid part of the trillions spent on a war that Republicans were insistent that we be a part of. Before I had kids I worked hard and my taxes went to child- related endeavors like schools and other programs. My tax dollars go to the tens of thousands of gunshot victims who wind up in hospitals every year and I don't own a gun. The flood victims. Earthquake and hurricane victims. Roads and bridges that I don't use. We have to think of the greater good. Not all of our tax dollars benefit each one of us directly.
20
This will backfire. A lot of Americans have no problem with Russia, with global warming, with gays lesbians minorities, with right wing war talk, with insulting our allies, and with lying, in general. Hillary's email is a problem, but not much else. It's all good.
But when the reality of making America great again hits home, it will be a revelation. This is not what Fox News told us; this is not what we voted for.
But when the reality of making America great again hits home, it will be a revelation. This is not what Fox News told us; this is not what we voted for.
17
Making America Great Again has little do do with this travesty of a Health Care plan. It has everything to do with Paul Ryan's grasping in the pockets of the health insurers and pharma companies.
4
So the Republican have had 7 years to figure out a better healthcare plan than Obamas and all they could come up with is take away affordable healthcare from the ones who need it most, the elderly and enrich the pockets of weathy people. The words heartless, unfeeling and incompetent come to mind.
30
We can always let the ACA just implode and go out of existence by doing nothing. The ACA was always a fraud and is collapsing now. what is your suggestion? Nothing?
The ignorance you show about the ACA is astonishing yet typical for GOP adherents unable to actually understand what insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies etc. have done to destroy the health care delivery system in our country.
But then again, you are in Texas, home to the remarkable GOPers that remain clueless and puffed up with their own self importance.
Piff
But then again, you are in Texas, home to the remarkable GOPers that remain clueless and puffed up with their own self importance.
Piff
12
GOP stands for Get Out Poor! What would Jesus say to the GOP? He would kick over their money changing tables. Republicans, in their war on the poor are simply evil.
8
I can't stand reading about this any more. It is as if a band of sociopaths has taken over Congress and there is nothing that the average person can do but watch this train wreck. One can only hope that the objections of groups like AARP, AMA, etc. can carry some weight. As it is, the Republicans have created enough disruption and doubt that the healthy people and insurance companies required for the ACA to work are not enrolling or are withdrawing because of the uncertainty. Then the Republicans and point and say "what a disaster" because they made it so, and finally use that as another reason to push through this crackpot plan. It makes me sick (literally).
21
The CBO predictions need to be taken to their inevitable outcome; how many Americans will die over the next 10 years because they are no longer insured?
14
Perhaps it’s time to examine the ideology that shapes GOP policy in general.
The House Trumpcare Plan is only part of a larger set of Republican policies that appear to have been designed by some sort of comic book villain. Watching Paul Ryan enthuse at using government to shovel tax breaks to the wealthiest Americans while kicking everyone else into the gutter is symptomatic of a profound moral collapse among the leadership of the GOP and most of its members.
The House Trumpcare Plan is only part of a larger set of Republican policies that appear to have been designed by some sort of comic book villain. Watching Paul Ryan enthuse at using government to shovel tax breaks to the wealthiest Americans while kicking everyone else into the gutter is symptomatic of a profound moral collapse among the leadership of the GOP and most of its members.
18
Just watch...they will all fall in line. The Republicans in Congress have no shame. They are all screaming about how bad this health care proposal of Paul Ryan's is, but in the end, they will fall in line. This is political hypocrisy at its best.
I can not wait for 2018. Vote them out. All of them!
I can not wait for 2018. Vote them out. All of them!
21
2018? Show me a great Democrat leader who cares about the poor and not their rich campaign donors also.
2
WWJD? Answer me, Paul Ryan.
10
Well, he might cure a lot of them, but he certainly couldn't afford insurance.
3
Who would Jesus deport?
1
He would deport the modern day money changers, starting with rich cabinet members and ending with Trump.
3
Note to Republicans: Old people vote.
30
Last November, a solid majority of them voted for Trump.
1
That was before they got how evil he is.
Well maybe one way the GOP can push older folks out of the Insurance market is to lower Medicare to 55:)
6
Ok. Here's the plan: I will have my kids pay my health insurance premiums in return for living at home for free. Encourage them to have their own kids early so that they can do the same.
4
More old people using heroin is where this will take us.
7
Again we want the millenials to pay our bills. Its bad enough we baby boomers have left them trillions of government debt and a college finance system that has left them with crushing personnel debt we now what them to pay for our health insurance subsidies before they pay for our Medicare. Shame on us.
3
The proposed bill is flawed. Some of the provisions are an improvement. One of the many flaws of Obamacare was the artificial limit that was placed on the relative cost of insuring a younger person versus an older person (the limit was 3:1). This means that the insurance companies had no chance at pricing policies that are rationale for younger people because if they did, they would lose their shirts on older people. The upshot, they had no choice but to price policies for older people at near the cost and price policies for younger people at irrationally high prices. With the change to the 5:1 rule, insurance companies can attract younger people with rates that may be 39% less AND hold the rates for older people. This will make the market more attractive to providers and it will improve stability.
the ratio is there to prevent insurance companies from gouging the elderly in our country (a cohort you will soon become part of), however i would have no issue tinkering with the ratio, especailly if it buys more genral acceptance... what used to be called "compromise" in the good 'ol days..
A toast to the return of compromise!
The GOP is determined to strip America's elderly of healthcare, social security, and most other benefits that ensure a basic quality of life for retirees. Perhaps we should ask ourselves why we're paying taxes? What, exactly, are we investing in?
Hopefully the 24 million (more) Americans about to be uninsured, and at risk of losing their entire life's savings over a medical emergency, show up at the midterms to remind the GOP that they are supposed to be investing in our society and serving at the pleasure of the people.
If we want good healthcare, good schools, social security, modern infrastructure etc., we must demand it. The government works for us. Not the other way around.
Hopefully the 24 million (more) Americans about to be uninsured, and at risk of losing their entire life's savings over a medical emergency, show up at the midterms to remind the GOP that they are supposed to be investing in our society and serving at the pleasure of the people.
If we want good healthcare, good schools, social security, modern infrastructure etc., we must demand it. The government works for us. Not the other way around.
25
We are paying for Mr. Trump's lavish travel habits, his family's residence in New York, and the high end rents associated with leasing space in Trump Towers. I honestly think the GOP has lost its way. Stripping down the programs that support our society and its most vulnerable citizens, while we watch a rich narcissist have weekly temper tantrums and flaunt his conflict of interests in our faces: this is America 2017.
8
When did Social Security and Medicare give anyone basic quality of life? Heck, we got poor seniors living in the streets of America or in dilapidated housing who can barely afford anything in this economy.
2
This is not about the deficit. This is not about the health insurance companies (for which competition to lower costs among a fixed population will only mean less profit). This is not about political aspirations.
This is about providing decent health care to everyone who needs it for a sustainable price.
This is about providing decent health care to everyone who needs it for a sustainable price.
7
This is a test run for dismantling Medicare. If Trump can uncouple the "third rail"political issue of old people and health care, that is, pay no political price for old people losing health care, then he will move on to supporting Ryan's plan to voucher Medicare next.
And he will get away with it, too, because there is no force on earth that can stop him.
Prediction: There will be a movement to repeal the 22nd amendment so Trump can serve more than 2 terms. Republicans are close to controlling the 3/4ths of the state legislatures needed to amend and "it'll be there when it's our turn" Democrats will provide the 2/3rds necessary at the federal level to amend.
By the end of Trump's 16 years in office he will be the titular, if not the de facto, leader of many nations on earth in control of entire continents. There is nothing that can stop him.
The 50-64 age group was one of Trump's biggest supporters over Hillary. I'll bet, like the frog in the pot of slowly boiling water, they have no idea what is about to happen.
And he will get away with it, too, because there is no force on earth that can stop him.
Prediction: There will be a movement to repeal the 22nd amendment so Trump can serve more than 2 terms. Republicans are close to controlling the 3/4ths of the state legislatures needed to amend and "it'll be there when it's our turn" Democrats will provide the 2/3rds necessary at the federal level to amend.
By the end of Trump's 16 years in office he will be the titular, if not the de facto, leader of many nations on earth in control of entire continents. There is nothing that can stop him.
The 50-64 age group was one of Trump's biggest supporters over Hillary. I'll bet, like the frog in the pot of slowly boiling water, they have no idea what is about to happen.
9
Jesus but thats alarmist. I suspect you are giving them more credit than there is evidence for and you are underestimating the incompetence and internal division in the GOP.
And as a European I take umbrage at "By the end of Trump's 16 years in office he will be the titular, if not the de facto, leader of many nations on earth in control of entire continents.'
One thing I have become absolutely clear on in the last few weeks is that the US and the UK media have little understanding of the actual situation in Europe, specifically around the Dutch and French elections, trying to project their own Us against Them "populist' pot stirring on to far more nuanced political systems, primarily for clicks and ad revenue.
A lot of the Alt right will be disappointed in the face of the reality of the Dutchs very sensible political system.
And as a European I take umbrage at "By the end of Trump's 16 years in office he will be the titular, if not the de facto, leader of many nations on earth in control of entire continents.'
One thing I have become absolutely clear on in the last few weeks is that the US and the UK media have little understanding of the actual situation in Europe, specifically around the Dutch and French elections, trying to project their own Us against Them "populist' pot stirring on to far more nuanced political systems, primarily for clicks and ad revenue.
A lot of the Alt right will be disappointed in the face of the reality of the Dutchs very sensible political system.
3
By the end of Donald Trump's supposed 16 year term he will be 86 years old. Let's see if he makes one year.
6
Not all of us in that age group supported the man. Please don't assume. He scared the living fool out of me prior to the election and what he has done to date in a staggeringly short time is terrifying. No, not all of us in that age bracket were taken in.
4
Why not allow older Americans between 50-64 to enroll in Medicare early but pay the full cost of their coverage ? This would be much less expensive than buying ACA-compliant marketplace insurance, reduce or eliminate the marketplace stability issue and improve Medicare's variability by adding another revenue source. It would also reduce Medicare's costs, since it would improve preventative care leading into Medicare's burden for new enrollees. An interesting statistic is that THE most expensive age in Medicare is enrollment is 65, since so many people defer expensive procedures until they get under Medicare coverage.
7
Yes. Excellent. But do insurers want to lose all that money? Of course not. Expanding Medicare will be the ultimate and only solution. It should be seriously considered.
3
I think the Dems had this provision in the original ACA bill but had to compromise it away to get the bill passed. It's too logical for the Repubs to allow it - and one step closer to "Medicare for all."
5
Something like this was proposed as part of Obamacare, but nixed by Joe Lieberman. who was more interested in defending the Connecticut insurance industry. http://www.politico.com/story/2009/12/lieberman-says-no-to-medicare-buy-... Hard to believe it could get through now.
6
All the opposition for a 10% reduction in premiums for fewer people?
Researchers have surmised that around 6.3 million Obamacare recipients supported Trump. Well more than the 300,000 total votes Trump allegedly received that won him the electoral college. Trump won my large margins among the elderly and other income and geographic groups that will be hard hit by Ryancare. If the threatened hardship of Ryancare doesn't turn them from Trump, nothing ever will. They don't care for themselves.
Researchers have surmised that around 6.3 million Obamacare recipients supported Trump. Well more than the 300,000 total votes Trump allegedly received that won him the electoral college. Trump won my large margins among the elderly and other income and geographic groups that will be hard hit by Ryancare. If the threatened hardship of Ryancare doesn't turn them from Trump, nothing ever will. They don't care for themselves.
10
Why do you cast such aspersions on people you don't even know? I recommend that you view the town hall meeting held in McDowell County, West Virginia with Bernie Sanders. These areas in West Virginia has some of the highest rates of opioid addiction and deaths in the entire country. An area that has been devastated with severe job losses from the vanishing coal industry. It has been reported that in the last six years drug manufacturers have shipped 780 million opiate pills into West Virginia.
The people in that county voted 75% for Trump. They misjudged, and now must have the fastest case of buyer's remorse. Bernie Sanders came with a message that touched every person in that meeting. I am glad that Sanders went down to speak with those folks. They need a compassionate hand to help them. Not the back of one.
The people in that county voted 75% for Trump. They misjudged, and now must have the fastest case of buyer's remorse. Bernie Sanders came with a message that touched every person in that meeting. I am glad that Sanders went down to speak with those folks. They need a compassionate hand to help them. Not the back of one.
5
But the coal industry is not coming back. These people have been lied to. Coals biggest customers, the electric power industry has switched to cheaper and environmentally efficient natural gas. Fracking has produced more of it at a cheaper price than coal. Trump voters will soon see that they have been lied to.
6
Trump told them that they are better than the immigrants and Obama and they opened their meager wallet for him. He said he will shower them with jobs. They don't have much else going for them. Now Trump will tell them that Obama is the reason they lost their healthcare and they will again open their wallet to him: You can't stop a suicide bomber with data.
3
I hope the AARP weighs in on this ageist discriminatory proposal. This Republican party is showing that it is the party lacking any morality. Thes congress people should be escorted out of D.C. and public life on a railroad train to Siberia. I just can't believe if someone is getting $24,000 or so from Social Security, which is hard to live on, that they would now have to pay $14,000 for health insurance.
18
AARP and the AMA both came out against it early on.
5
As a member, I feel confident in saying the AARP is mostly useless. Better to revive the Grey Panthers.
4
I'm not sure you have facts straight or myself. These figures are for workers up to age 65 who must find health insurance with tax credits and a 30k salary, while rates for them would be about 14k. At 65 we can still go to Medicare but I'm sure the Republicans have a plan to raise the age and have vouchers. And, they insist on tax cuts going mainly the wealthiest.
3
I have long said that the eligibility age for Medicare should be reduced to 50, or even 45. This would lower the average age of individuals covered by Medicare, reducing the average cost per participant.
And at the same time, it would significantly reduce the age of people in the private insurance pool, reducing the cost per covered person. Seems to me, it would be a win win situation.
And repeal the mandate that hospitals must treat everyone, regardless of their ability to pay. That mandate causes people to believe they can get away without insurance. You cannot go to a grocrey store and take food without some arrangement to pay for it. Food is probably more essential than heath care.
In the old days, those folks without insurance or the means to pay had to rely on charity. Why do you think many hospitals are church affiliated? But given the state of medicine at that time, their charity care may not have cost as much, or last as long.
And at the same time, it would significantly reduce the age of people in the private insurance pool, reducing the cost per covered person. Seems to me, it would be a win win situation.
And repeal the mandate that hospitals must treat everyone, regardless of their ability to pay. That mandate causes people to believe they can get away without insurance. You cannot go to a grocrey store and take food without some arrangement to pay for it. Food is probably more essential than heath care.
In the old days, those folks without insurance or the means to pay had to rely on charity. Why do you think many hospitals are church affiliated? But given the state of medicine at that time, their charity care may not have cost as much, or last as long.
2
"EMTALA" is the act that requires ERs to treat (or rather, stabilize) people in danger of dying and women in active labor without first doing a wallet biopsy. EMTALA was passed in response to several well-publicized, embarrassing incidents (!) in which hospitals turned away people who couldn't prove they could pay, and these people shamefully died in plain sight. You're saying you think it's good to return to this kind of good old days. I disagree.
8
So long as people think they can get service without paying for it, some will not make arrangements to pay.
So long as politicians believe they can leave people uninsured without dire results, they will do so.
So long as politicians believe they can leave people uninsured without dire results, they will do so.
3
RM, You just made the case for single payer, in a sick sort of Dickensian/Swiftian way.
3
Ryan can crow all he wants about saving money and reducing the deficit on the backs of older and poorer Americans. But by taking money out of the pockets of some 14-24 million people, or more, while reducing our health care, the money we lose (as older, lower middle class or poor people) will not be generated in the economy, will not be collected in the form of state or federal taxes, and will also drag down the community. You can't just allow people to die or starve or both, it is undemocratic, un-American, and morally reprehensible. Obamacare may have needed some tweaking, but Trumpcare, or Ryancare works for nobody but the very wealthy. Surprise, surprise.
58
The GOP is against spending money...except on the military. It is doubtful that many have spent an uninsured day. Many seem not to understand the principles of insurance at all. Most of Ryan's stripe seem to believe the purpose of their exercise is to sell the public on hyperbole and their ideology. The entire GOP conversation has degraded into meaningless sound bites, with Ryan being the spinner-in-chief.
23
I'm actually pleased that the horror of this is so obvious.
But even then, there is a lot people don't know unless they dig, like the tax breaks for insurance companies to overpay their executives, and the tax breaks for the top 2%, who didn't seem to be complaining about feeling poor.
Even if this passes it will ultimately fail, once the cruelty is played out over and over, in families across the country. Then the sun will set on this gasp of grotesque Republicanism. Hopefully gone for generations.
But even then, there is a lot people don't know unless they dig, like the tax breaks for insurance companies to overpay their executives, and the tax breaks for the top 2%, who didn't seem to be complaining about feeling poor.
Even if this passes it will ultimately fail, once the cruelty is played out over and over, in families across the country. Then the sun will set on this gasp of grotesque Republicanism. Hopefully gone for generations.
26
If you wanted something you could brag about, you would think of the most cruel, most harmful, most destructive things our government could do against the public interest, and pass them along to Donald. You can claim credit when he follows through. Dirty our rivers? Donald says, "Yes!" End monitoring of carbon emissions at shale oil drilling sites? Donald says, "Yes!" Stop NOAA satellites from monitoring global climate change? Donald says, "Yes!" Kick old people out of health care? Donald says, "Yes!" Separate foreign-born parents from children? Donald says, "Yes!" Slander Latinos so they no longer want to cross the border? Donald says, "Yes!" Tax savings for the rich? Donald says, "Yes!" Kill worker safety regulations? Donald says, "Yes!" Stop funding health care for poor women? Donald says, "Yes!" Spend billions on defense industry equipment useful in a 1940's ground and air war? Donald says, "Yes!" Promote private school and parochial education with federal funds? Donald says, "Yes!" Pay me $400,000 for doing all of the above? Donald says, "Yes!" America, the joke is on you. Will you have the spine to just say, "No!"
71
I love what you wrote, Lawyer in LA! Not only for the truth of your words, but also for the way you expressed them. I hope you get this message out to more people than the readers of this comment section. It all helps!
4
No saving money. Just cost shifting from Fed to States. I would rather save lives than money. But I know how to do both. Come home from Afghanistan and Iraq. We llost those wars years ago.
17
This will likely drive many oldsters to climb the wall into Mexico, seeking asylum from the crazies in the U.S. working to knock them off.
If the Mexicans are humane enough to tolerate "illegals".
If the Mexicans are humane enough to tolerate "illegals".
21
You get what you vote for - no mystery here. Running on repealing health care got republicans victory in most all elections for the last several years. Why support what people don't want? I don't understand why but most people do not want health care from the feds.
6
For heavens sake, those rabid anti-obamacare folks wanted nothing to do with anything attached to the first black President. And their surfacing racism allowed them to abandon all reason in any argument about the bill. Death panels? Only a subterranean racism would believe such a thing would be in the bill. Those alleged 'death panels' were actually assistance in wading through end of life issues. Talk to someone who has a loved one lingering on a respirator with a pacemaker if you'd like a horror story. But Frightened voters are dangerous voters - I submit our current situation as my primary support of that hypothesis.
13
There is a difference between getting "health care from the feds" and "getting health care paid for by a public insurance system". Health care will always be provided by practitioners and practices and hospitals, the same ones doing it now. To conflate these is to make the same mistake the president has done, which is to confuse the care providers with the insurance brokers.
7
Obama promoted Hope, Trump promotes Fear, aided by the media and their sponsors who have been laying the groundwork for decades.
Fear [initially] trumps hope because its the most atavistic response, but only until one sees through the manipulation.
In many ways the best educator would be for the media on both sides to take responsibility and publicly acknowledge their culpability and work together to reform the industry and regain voters trust.
This can be done in extremis.
One brave and honourable Editor could start the ball rolling.
Fear [initially] trumps hope because its the most atavistic response, but only until one sees through the manipulation.
In many ways the best educator would be for the media on both sides to take responsibility and publicly acknowledge their culpability and work together to reform the industry and regain voters trust.
This can be done in extremis.
One brave and honourable Editor could start the ball rolling.
Yeah, the Republicans truly are a "Pro-Life" party...
Millions will lose coverage, tens of thousands will die prematurely or suffer pain, but Conservatives are concerned about preventing abortions to save life?!
The only thing putting a smile on my face is my Schadenfreude that a considerable percentage of affected demographics being pushed out of their insurance have voted for Trump. They had it coming...
Millions will lose coverage, tens of thousands will die prematurely or suffer pain, but Conservatives are concerned about preventing abortions to save life?!
The only thing putting a smile on my face is my Schadenfreude that a considerable percentage of affected demographics being pushed out of their insurance have voted for Trump. They had it coming...
23
Per Ryan... It's called "Choice". Frankly his pitch on GOP Care is outright nauseating and shows no shame. I despise this guy more than Trump. All he cares about is his political career. He'd toss his mom and dad under the bus if it would further his career. Wake up America!
14
These are not "older customers." They are your parents and grandparents! When I was growing up in the 1960s, my parents, and their brothers and sisters had to take care of their parents--financially and in every way. My grandmother lived a pretty humiliating life being shepherded from house to house for the final years of her life. All Trumpcare will do is place the VERY HEAVY burden of supporting parents and grandparents on the younger generation. We need to give "older customers" a face! You know them! They are our relatives!
19
I guess the death panels are a reality.
4
Whatever is ultimately passed, it should be mandatory for Congress to participate in this plan. If they really have Americans best interest at heart, they shouldn't take issue with.
22
The Death Panels were a GOP canard designed to scare the uninformed. Forcing those age 50 to 64 to choose between no health insurance and coverage that cost 50% of their income is a veritable Death Sentence for seniors. After 7 years of trying to repeal the ACA you would think that the GOP could craft a viable plan. Just goes to show you it is so much easier to be a critic than to be an author. Toss these bumps out of office.
18
I'm confused - could Paul Ryan please explain who is going to pay for the emergency medical expenses of those who can't afford or refuse to buy medical insurance.
24
The rest of us will pay for them. I want everyone to be covered. I want single-payer. Medicare for all. And we CAN afford it. Do not listen to the lying garbage-mongers, paul ryan, and his ilk, that tell you that we cannot. They tell us this because if we have single payer, the republicans will not get paid off by the health care lobbyists whom they are ensuring will make HUGE profits if their republican health care plan passes. HUGE profits for the health care insurers and other health care providers means HUGE kickbacks for Paul Ryan and Company. And that, in a nutshell, is why you will never get single payer from the greedy, sickening, low life republicans.
6
You and me
2
Today is my 68th birthday. I would like to remind P Ryan and crew, when I work, I not only build up my own life, and the lives of my family, I am building up the life of my community, state, and country by paying taxes, purchasing items, paying utilities, rent, etc. Now that I am older, and working fewer hours, (and, making room for younger workers and their families), I have come to believe the old lass is ENTITLED to good health care. I have worked hard, and have contributed to the well-being of this country, not just myself. This is a real smack-down to the elders of this fair land. Pax, jb
62
The old death panels are looking pretty good now, eh? At least there you could plead your case and appeal it. The GOP plan would simply push unhealthy and older Americans off insurance so they would have no appeal.
JUST DIE, because the hospital/doctors won't treat someone who can't pay.
I have sympathy for the doctors and the hospitals, but not for these heartless, crass politicians that seem to live in a bubble! The most fitting end would be to vote every Republican up for election out of office.
JUST DIE, because the hospital/doctors won't treat someone who can't pay.
I have sympathy for the doctors and the hospitals, but not for these heartless, crass politicians that seem to live in a bubble! The most fitting end would be to vote every Republican up for election out of office.
24
Some doctors are honorable; some are in it just for the money. Hospitals are absolutely businesses...and I understand that they have to make a profit, but for God's sake: $50.00 for a Band-Aid? $37.00 for an aspirin? $118.00 for 2 drops in the eye? $600.00 to change a sterile dressing? This is partially because they are charging the rest of us for those who don't have insurance, but it is also...well...CROOKERY at its' most obvious!
2
For those who do not understand how insurance works:
Insurance spreads out risk. Consider automobile insurance. Every year, some percentage of drivers will have accidents. We have no idea who might have those accidents. So we charge everybody a small amount of money to have a "bank account" out of which to pay the costs associated with the accidents. Some drivers have bad driving records, so they get charged more because statistically, they are the ones most likely to be involved in accidents. If there are too many accidents in a given year, the insurance company loses money (pays out more than it collected in premiums) so it has to increase its collections or it will go bankrupt. That raises the cost to each driver. Rarely, when the insurance company collects more than it spends, does it actually DECREASE the premiums the next year (but that miracle does occasionally happen).
You buy insurance to protect yourself against expenses that would bankrupt you. If you do not buy insurance, logically you are taking upon yourself the risk that you will incur an expense that DOES bankrupt you.
Under the health insurance system we have, we are now allowing anyone to begin buying insurance at any time, even when they KNOW they face huge expenses. That is illogical in that it allows people to game the system by never paying into the risk mitigation pool until the time when they expect to draw from that pool. That is what the individual mandate, a conservative idea, fixes.
Insurance spreads out risk. Consider automobile insurance. Every year, some percentage of drivers will have accidents. We have no idea who might have those accidents. So we charge everybody a small amount of money to have a "bank account" out of which to pay the costs associated with the accidents. Some drivers have bad driving records, so they get charged more because statistically, they are the ones most likely to be involved in accidents. If there are too many accidents in a given year, the insurance company loses money (pays out more than it collected in premiums) so it has to increase its collections or it will go bankrupt. That raises the cost to each driver. Rarely, when the insurance company collects more than it spends, does it actually DECREASE the premiums the next year (but that miracle does occasionally happen).
You buy insurance to protect yourself against expenses that would bankrupt you. If you do not buy insurance, logically you are taking upon yourself the risk that you will incur an expense that DOES bankrupt you.
Under the health insurance system we have, we are now allowing anyone to begin buying insurance at any time, even when they KNOW they face huge expenses. That is illogical in that it allows people to game the system by never paying into the risk mitigation pool until the time when they expect to draw from that pool. That is what the individual mandate, a conservative idea, fixes.
16
The individual mandate is a totalitarian idea, regardless of who came up with it, and I will be glad to see it go. The only proper way for a supposedly democratic government to fund the risk mitigation pool is through taxes which everyone (with sufficient means) is liable for, with allowances (credits, deductions, etc.) made for money spent on insurance and health care.
1
And it really is almost that simple...
Yes the fix is in. Typical Republican hypocrisy. Lower taxes for the rich increase, profits for the insurance companies and let people die for lack of health care.. That's the fix Ryan and his cronies are trying to put in. Follow the money ..then you will understand Ryancare
3
Does the Ryan plan set the table for a Medicare but-in for folks over 50?
Find me ONE 65 year old Republican who hates Medicare, has never enrolled in it, and prefers to pay out of pocket for all medical expenses.
I bet they are either enormously wealthy, or a big fat liar.
I bet they are either enormously wealthy, or a big fat liar.
46
Mitt Romney. And probably Trump too.
5
Very good, you adorable, smart, Greek girl from the Bronx! Who doesn't like Medicare?
2
Medicare is the absolute BEST coverage with the lowest administration cost in the US. It should be made available to all
6
The Unaffordable Health Care Act, expertly crafted by a administration that wishes you were dead.
30
This could very well be the Social Security, Medicare fix Republicans want . More people dying younger, problem solved!
5
In an age when we are supposed to be a society that cares enough to see that all receive health care, still among us are those who insist that people with no assets, often homeless and frequently missing meals, should exercise “personal responsibility” by paying funds they lack as a condition for receiving essential medical & mental health care. It's irrational and inhumane to have consumer-directed, moral hazard-based policies that erect financial barriers to care for the four-fifths of the U.S. population with minimal resources.
Trump, Pence & Paul Ryan Republican policy clearly exposes them as "reject Medicaid expansion" advocates. What kind of people are we that we elect individuals like this to take charge of our federal and state governments? Denying poor people basic mental health, medical and dental care simply because they cannot pay the premium defies logic. Does sentencing poor people to receiving little or no mental health/physical health care truly motivate them to find money that they don’t have to provide them the “dignity to pay for their own health insurance”?
Stop the war against the poor & middle class with a more efficient, affordable and humane system for universal coverage in the public interest: H.R. 676, a bill now in Congress, a single-payer, "Medicare for All" plan based on medical need, not ability to pay. "The Expanded and Improved Medicare for All Act" resolves problems of Medicaid, Medicare and other failed for-profit policies .
Trump, Pence & Paul Ryan Republican policy clearly exposes them as "reject Medicaid expansion" advocates. What kind of people are we that we elect individuals like this to take charge of our federal and state governments? Denying poor people basic mental health, medical and dental care simply because they cannot pay the premium defies logic. Does sentencing poor people to receiving little or no mental health/physical health care truly motivate them to find money that they don’t have to provide them the “dignity to pay for their own health insurance”?
Stop the war against the poor & middle class with a more efficient, affordable and humane system for universal coverage in the public interest: H.R. 676, a bill now in Congress, a single-payer, "Medicare for All" plan based on medical need, not ability to pay. "The Expanded and Improved Medicare for All Act" resolves problems of Medicaid, Medicare and other failed for-profit policies .
11
The level of greed and self-regard now on display in Washington is astonishing.
12
The CBO missed its enrollment estimate in the ACA by 30%. Why should I believe them this time. They are just people guessing.
1
They missed the estimate only because there was this little thing called a Supreme Court case that changed the conditions of which programs would be allowed to be part of the plan, where 19 states decided not to allow Medicaid expansion. Absent that unforeseen development, they were pretty accurate. They were not "guessing" then and they are not "guessing" now. BTW why does the WH think the new CBO score for enrollment is wrong bu thte score for deficit reduction is spot on? Could they be cherry picking the pieces of the same report? That's pretty transparent.
6
The CBO are statisticians and not guessing. And this time, it's not hard to predict. Give people the option of not buying insurance and they won't. Let's have more freedom and not require car insurance. Saves a fortune. The rest of us will pick up the tab when they hit the ER.
1
I suppose if the CBO misses their increase in the uninsured by 30% that makes it OK to accept GOP care. Only 18 million fewer people will not be able to afford health care instead of the CBO estimate of 24 million people. With that logic, it's OK to jump and plummet from a 50 foot cliff so long as it's not a 100 foot cliff?
2
Has the GOP ever wondered who is going to hew the wood and cart the water when they kill off all the productive members of society? You know, the older workers who hold the collective knowledge of how to make things work, those whose hands and skills do the work and even those who nurture the next generations who are future workers?
8
I haven't recently seen any evidence that those are skills valued by contemporary American society. Rather, the skills valued are those of "the dealmakers," or at least people who call themselves "dealmakers."
2
Push old and sick people into the streets to die for lack of health care and save the super-rich $350 Billion in taxes. Yep, sure sounds like the Republican Party alright.
30
The Republican health care plan basically eliminates the need for health insurance altogether because the only people who will be able to afford it are the people who won't need it. Why don't the people who vote Republican understand that their elected representatives (and Trump in particular) are turning us against one another to distract us from the truth: this is all about the rich taking an ever larger share of the pie. Perhaps it doesn't really matter-it's probably too late to change the path were on anyway...
7
Yup--sell health insurance to young healthy people and cahs their premiums! Then reject their claims! Works every time! Signed Rick Soctt. PS--inflate the Medicare and Medicair bills! Terrific! I am a "job creator"
3
Everybody needs healthcare. If you CHOOSE not to buy health insurance than the assumption can only be made that when that uninsured someone requires extensive care the bills he/she will never be able to pay will be paid by someone else. And they can rest easy knowing that for many, they will inevitably have to declare BANKRUPTCY and lose everything. Reassuring, isn't it Mr. Ryan?
The system can only work if 0there's a MANDATE and everyone who is able pays in. And that my friends is how it has a chance if working. Ryan's approach is beyond lame.
The system can only work if 0there's a MANDATE and everyone who is able pays in. And that my friends is how it has a chance if working. Ryan's approach is beyond lame.
7
Ryan isn't thinking like a human being. He's thinking like a Texas Instruments calculator from the late 70's. And the numbers just don't add up.
If millions of pre-eligible Medicare (55-64) seniors are priced out of the private healthcare market that Ryan says will miraculously, over time, evolve , and ultimately lower the cost of healthcare, they'll simply go without.
That means that early detection of various medical conditions and diseases, that disproportionately effect seniors, ( cancers, COPD, diabetes, GERD, kidney disease, plaque psoriasis, heart disease, Irritable Bowel Syndrome etc.,) will simply not happen. They'll just "live with it "and it will get worse, or they'll die.
By the time they are Medicare eligible they'll need significantly more care, at high cost, than if they had had access to preventive care, counseling and early intervention. So, the cost of Medicare will go up.
Ryan needs to start thinking like a human being and not the popular high school senior running for class president, who is good looking, but can't do basic math and is headed for Junior College.
If millions of pre-eligible Medicare (55-64) seniors are priced out of the private healthcare market that Ryan says will miraculously, over time, evolve , and ultimately lower the cost of healthcare, they'll simply go without.
That means that early detection of various medical conditions and diseases, that disproportionately effect seniors, ( cancers, COPD, diabetes, GERD, kidney disease, plaque psoriasis, heart disease, Irritable Bowel Syndrome etc.,) will simply not happen. They'll just "live with it "and it will get worse, or they'll die.
By the time they are Medicare eligible they'll need significantly more care, at high cost, than if they had had access to preventive care, counseling and early intervention. So, the cost of Medicare will go up.
Ryan needs to start thinking like a human being and not the popular high school senior running for class president, who is good looking, but can't do basic math and is headed for Junior College.
8
He needs to sit down with some professional actuaries and learn something about insurance. It's about time. He wasted the last eight years when he could have learned something. He is not well educated and he does not have much real world experience.
3
The GOP's "plan" isn't a plan at all. It's a Hail Mary pass with no chance of being passed. The GOP had years to come up with a viable plan that would either shore up the ACA, or replace it with something better and more comprehensive. Instead, they attempt to hoodwink the American public with a mishmash of hellishly expensive, poorly conceived ideas and half-measures. Other than long awaited payback for President Obama and the Democrats passing the ACA, there's absolutely nothing original, helpful or promising in the garbage they're putting forth as a replacement healthcare bill for all Americans. There do appear to be some nifty and totally disingenuous tax cuts included for wealthy Americans though, which is what this despicable and unacceptable bill is really all about.
8
It is very hard to believe the GOP takes this seriously. If passed, it will be an epic disaster that will doom them in the 2018 midterm elections. It is ANOTHER costly kluge that is too complex. And worst of all, it not only does not SOLVE the problem of high deductible, unaffordable insurance -- it makes it WORSE.
I can only assume they were so desperate, they cobbled something ridiculous together so it can fail and then they can say "see, those awful Democrats stopped us from reforming Obamacare!" and thereby, get off the stick over the issue. Pass the buck, the Congressional default position.
I can only assume they were so desperate, they cobbled something ridiculous together so it can fail and then they can say "see, those awful Democrats stopped us from reforming Obamacare!" and thereby, get off the stick over the issue. Pass the buck, the Congressional default position.
3
Why don't republicans just get rid of health care all together, and pass the savings on to the top 1%? I guess that's the tweak they expect to make in the future.
5
This is generational genocide. Baby boomers to the barricades !
8
I think it's time to "push out" another group of older people -- former and retired members of Congress who get lifetime comprehensive medical, dental and vision care at low cost, and usually with both in and out of network options.
15
Seniors must join the growing dedicated anti-Trump bloc, which in turn must increase its activity.
7
The most amazing fact related to all of the coverage of this story is the failure of all the news outlets, including the Times(and I am an avid reader and lover the Times) is that most Americans do not know that all members of the House and the Senate have FREE health care for life! Perhaps if Americans were advised of this simple yet salient fact the Republicans would not be so quick to repeal the Affordable Care Act that has in fact helped Millions
11
Most Republicans I know, including my own 92-year-old mother, are sweet people but also heartless. They simply cannot identify, or sympathize, with those who are "different." They don't care about those who are "others." There is a coldness that leaves me cold. Is this a lack of imagination? A lack of the compassion gene? I don't know.
9
See if you an get Tavis Smiley's 3/13 PBS broadcast.
A repeat, it was the most requested episode of last year, and it is a Sociology professor describing how the brain works, and why all of us are the way we are. Was very interesting.
A repeat, it was the most requested episode of last year, and it is a Sociology professor describing how the brain works, and why all of us are the way we are. Was very interesting.
1
Thanks for the suggestion.
These are not "savings". Stop framing the issue that way. This is a massive tax cut to the rich at the expense of working people. This is a tax cut disguised as a health plan.
14
Obamas healthcare plan was a cynical political promise for an unsustainable give-away. At least now we have some grown-ups running the government who believe that you cant just keep dangling shiny babbles in front of the public to get them to love you. Somebody needs to have a reality check. Thank you Mr. Ryan.
4
Reality Check!?! I don't know how old you are but what you call a cynical political promise kept my husband and I from going bankrupt. We have both worked our entire adult lives and purchased health insurance every one of those years either through an employer or as individuals. Most of those years I was never sick, but the moment I did become ill and forever after had a "pre-existing condition" my premiums went up an unholy amount each and every year. This "unsustainable give-away" can certainly be made better in more ways than one, but it's not a give-away. If you think it's "reality" to charge older people more than half their income on premiums (much less higher deductibles), on this point alone I would say the grown-ups who have come up with this plan have a very horrible view of mankind. In case you haven't noticed this plan by Mr. Ryan puts money into the pockets of the wealthiest. Thanking Paul Ryan for being such a clueless, selfish person is pretty odd.
5
Does Mr. Ryan really think he's fooling anyone?
4
Let God sort us out?
2
If that happened, the entire Trump administration and at least half the members of the Senate and Congress would be struck down by lightening.
4
The right wing has no shame.
6
Older and poorer Americans just need to get with the program and die early and quickly, saving the rest of us from having to pay for your unwelcome lingering existence. Get over it. You want to live forever? Well, you should have thought of that before deciding to be poor. Sheesh.
10
If you are old and poor, the GOP cares much more about a fertilized egg than they do about you.
21
Only until it is born.
10
The compassionate conservatives have morphed into the death panel they warned us about.
13
When were they compassionate? Not for a very long time now.
2
The GOP has decided to make an enemy of older people ... unless of course they're rich.
5
This plan is evil.
9
Those eagles on the DC eagle cam, are better examples of how to take care of one another, then we are as humans!
6
My 54 year old brother is angry about O-care and wants it to go. He's paying for his own health insurance and, I believe, that of his 27 year old son through the exchanges. Both have major health issues, and he's getting hammered by the deductibles. That he and his son would both be uninsurable pre-Obamacare, and that his premiums and deductibles are likely to sky-rocket under the R's proposed health insurance bill doesn't seem to register with him. He wants Obamacare gone. He says things can't get worse.
11
Oh, they can get worse. Take it from me. Tell your brother things can definitely get worse. If he has anything of value, such as a home, it can definitely get worse.
5
The cost no one is talking about is that of hospital emergency rooms, which will now be used to treat the uninsured.
19
Ryan/Trumpcare is the ultimate "death panel". This sort of rationing of care for the most vulnerable pre-Medicare cohort is not only disingenuous, cruel, and economically stupid, it hinges on the GOP delusion that government oversight and administration of what really is not a product or commodity at all, is somehow inimical to good health care. ("Socialized Medicine!!!!" is a 69 year old Madison Avenue zombie slogan). After all, every other OECD country seems to figure out how to care for their citizenry. Why can't we? Maybe we should give single payer a try. We've tried everything else and it doesn't work.
4
Remember the dire warnings prior to passage of the Affordable Care Act about "death panels"? A "tool" ACA would use to deny expensive procedures for older folk as a method of controlling health care costs.
If AHCA passes, the 115th Congress will have the singular distinction of having acted as the largest "death panel" in the history of health care in America. And consider this play out: as uninsured elderly citizens incur medical expenses that ultimately bankrupt them (think "loss of home due to mortgage default") we will have a deja vu of the sub-prime mortgage collapse that led to "The Great Recession".
Not so great, huh? Unless you played the big time Wall Street derivative games that enriched the fat cats. Fire up the foreclosure factories, but not until you invest in the glamorous financial products whose yields arise from the calamity of "we the people".
Deplorable.
If AHCA passes, the 115th Congress will have the singular distinction of having acted as the largest "death panel" in the history of health care in America. And consider this play out: as uninsured elderly citizens incur medical expenses that ultimately bankrupt them (think "loss of home due to mortgage default") we will have a deja vu of the sub-prime mortgage collapse that led to "The Great Recession".
Not so great, huh? Unless you played the big time Wall Street derivative games that enriched the fat cats. Fire up the foreclosure factories, but not until you invest in the glamorous financial products whose yields arise from the calamity of "we the people".
Deplorable.
18
It will never happen as long as the Republicans are in charge. The only fair way to correct this health care problem is to make the super-rich pay more taxes not less. If the quality of a people is determined how they treat the elderly and less fortunate, we are scoring zero!
30
Old people, up until about 10 years ago, were an asset to society, even if they weren't productive. After the iPhone and the Cloud, their existence can't be justified. Society no longer depends upon them to transmit knowledge from the past. Nowadays, machines and computers store, organize, and retrieve all the data we call history. Human life was once 40 years, at best. Medical science has extended it and it is indecorous. Now with the Republican Health Care plan in view, we can terminate older people at a more "natural" and at an age when we were intended by God to expire. This is the great gift of the Ryan/Trump Health Care plan.
15
David - you first!!
1
Serious or ironic? Akin to Jonathan Swift's "Modest Proposal?"
3
Ryan's theory that younger people will pay less simply because they are younger discounts the fact that obesity and its attendant side effects – heart issues and diabetes, among others – is also rampant among younger adults.
27
The GOP plan is what a partisan congress can do without 60 votes in the senate. Step 1; this - basically repeal ObamaCare, step 2: people scream at everyone in congress, step 3: bipartisan plan to fix things that neither party could get done without the cooperation of the other, which will now be forced on both parties. Trump/Ryan could just wait for Obamacare to implode on its own and get to the same place but at least this way, it might get fixed faster and in a more controlled way.
2
Except Obamacare is not imploding.
You are fake news.
You are fake news.
8
So the "Worlds Greatest Healthcare Act of 2017" is not great at all. As a person in my 60's, the health insurance uproar is terrifying and firms up a commitment to not retire in the United States.
42
Trump and the GOP think we are all idiots, will believe any lie they feed us on a daily basis and of course, have short memories and won't remember this come election time.
Sorry Trump, Ryan and McConnell- you have crossed a bridge too far. People will vote you all out of office sooner than you could possibly imagine.
As for Trump- he needs to be removed from office due to mental disorders- at least he has an excuse for his insane behavior- what is Ryan's excuse?
The GOP has devolved into a criminal organization completely devoted to conning the American people for their own greed and the greed of their billionaire overlords. This latest travesty is just another example in a very, very , very long lie of examples. Their treason and greed knows no limits- but we will not forget- we will never forget.
Sorry Trump, Ryan and McConnell- you have crossed a bridge too far. People will vote you all out of office sooner than you could possibly imagine.
As for Trump- he needs to be removed from office due to mental disorders- at least he has an excuse for his insane behavior- what is Ryan's excuse?
The GOP has devolved into a criminal organization completely devoted to conning the American people for their own greed and the greed of their billionaire overlords. This latest travesty is just another example in a very, very , very long lie of examples. Their treason and greed knows no limits- but we will not forget- we will never forget.
36
I wish I could agree with you but the voting public does in fact have a very short memory. The republicans have been giving us reasons not to vote for them for a long time yet they still get voted in & this last election they got the white house, congress & at a time when it was foreknown that this president most likely will be appointing 2 Supreme Court Justices.
3
that is the Republican way, budget over humanity, sounds like corporate America, God bless America-Why????
Insurance is not sustainable unless everyone buys in. Can't have only sick people covered by Insurance. That's why if u drive a car, you are required to have auto insurance. If you own a house, you are required to have homeowners insurance. That's why Obamacare has a mandate. Basically if you are going to be a contributing adult to society, you should be required to have health insurance.
52
Not all states require auto insurance, Wisconsin for one doesn't. No state requires homeowners insurance. If you have a lean on the house it's the note holder who requires the insurance to protect their investment
3
No auto insurance required in Wisconsin? Where did you hear *that*? Take a 1-second fact-check break for that...
2
I can assure you that Wisconsin requires auto insurance. I lived there for years, and they always did and still do require it. It's true that it's the mortgage holder that requires homeowners insurance, however, it isn't a comparable situation to compare homeowners and medical insurance. If you don't have insurance and go to the emergency room, all the people who have insurance pay more to make up for you not being able to pay.
2
What makes anyone think that the warmongers calling the shots care about a relativeley minor number of 'inconveniences' and deaths?
Remember, the increase in deaths in the United States is much less than the millions of deaths that the Imperial Militeristic foreign policy of the US has inflicted on the world in the last 15 years.
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/how_much_of_the_globes_humanitarian_...
Remember, the increase in deaths in the United States is much less than the millions of deaths that the Imperial Militeristic foreign policy of the US has inflicted on the world in the last 15 years.
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/how_much_of_the_globes_humanitarian_...
11
It's not about health care, it's about getting rid of anything President Obama achieved. The GOP prefers to ruin this country than to accept that we had an African American president (for eight years) and that he succeeded.
119
Couldn't agree more! This is politics for politics sake.
Disgusting.
Disgusting.
3
Yes, Isabel, that is true...but do not forget how much money these republican politicians like trump, ryan, mcconnell, and price will make on denying so many millions health care. They get HUGE pay offs from the health insurance lobbyists, and from other health care lobbyists who are going to profit from the suffering of American citizens...and these lobbyists give kick backs to the politicians who are responsible for their windfalls. We are talking about MILLIONS of dollars in pay offs!
6
Boy, you have cut to the chase, Isabel. Everything the repubs are enacting is payback for President Obama. Racial hatred has never been so rife since the civil war. I would like to understand where these racists became so full of hate & vitriol. It brings tears to my eyes.
6
And older voters broke for Trump and the GOP in the 2016 election - see the link:!
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/11/these-3-charts-perfectly-explain-how-old...
A 64 year old will get a premium increase of $12,900! If that's the way the GOP treats its supporters, it must have a death wish.
https://www.healthinsurance.org/repeal-and-replace/will-repeal-and-repla...
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/11/these-3-charts-perfectly-explain-how-old...
A 64 year old will get a premium increase of $12,900! If that's the way the GOP treats its supporters, it must have a death wish.
https://www.healthinsurance.org/repeal-and-replace/will-repeal-and-repla...
25
No, just a death wish for their NON-RICH supporters.
1
Well said!
1
How do we do away with the current health care coverage for both houses of Congress. That is what we as Americans need to be looking into. What can we do to overturn the extravagant and loaded health care options that they receive. If they have no interest in providing the middle class and others with viable health coverage then we need to look at other options for our representatives coverage. This is what we should be doing is looking into how do we as Americans change their plans until there is a serious movement to do this, we will not see our needs met. Write your congressional representative and tell them, that you want them to have the same coverage that they want to offer us. We as American citizens must uphold, we the people for the people. Our representatives have turned their back on us.
What can we do to overturn their health care coverage?
What can we do to overturn their health care coverage?
43
Vote them out.
2
Unfortunately US legislators pay themselves and legislate excellent lifelong healthcare for themselves. And most of them are millionaires and could manage without if necessary.
1
Costa Rica, here we come!
9
I'm sorry Mr. Ryan but who in their right mind would not want to buy health insurance? There are only two groups - 1) those who would otherwise be unable to eat, and 2) - those without the ability to reason.
Trump falls in the 2nd category, BTW. Come to think of it, Ryan is in Group 2 as well.
Heartless.
Trump falls in the 2nd category, BTW. Come to think of it, Ryan is in Group 2 as well.
Heartless.
19
When NYT uses term "older people", it would be helpful to say under 65 or not eligible for Medicare yet, otherwise you risk people saying that these people get Medicare anyway. Just trying to help the cause with better titling.
7
Not sure that distinction matters since doing away with Medicare is also an important part of Paul Ryan's agenda.
1
If all of Donald Trump's rural and older supporters die, how will Republicans continue to win elections?
35
Um...racists, misogynists, anti-abortion fanatics, xenophobes, the very wealthy, and Neo-Nazis/Skinheads/KKK...
Plenty of young and non-rural persons with those leanings.
I don't know about you, but it makes me want to throw up.
Plenty of young and non-rural persons with those leanings.
I don't know about you, but it makes me want to throw up.
4
Young uneducated people have more children than anyone else. Gullible new future voters as they are deliberately kept poor and uneducated.
3
I am very afraid of the future, I am going on 63, have TYPE I Diabetes, 3 other Auto-immune Diseases and 3 eye diseases. I have not been able to work for the last 10 years due to severe disability. My Social Security benefit will be about $820 a month gross income and I fear my life is imperiled by the GOP plans for their new Death Panel.
38
The Obamacare death panels that we were encouraged to worry about eight years ago turn out to be the Republican House. They'll decide which senior citizens get to live (those with a lot of dough) and which to die (those with not so much). This is really beyond belief.
48
For those seniors who will soon be priced out of healthcare, hopefully you've set enough money aside so you can visit that huge wall with the beautiful door on the southern border.
17
Let's don't forget, however health care dollars are spent, a very small number of people will make a lot of money. The vast majority of Americans are only here to put money into the walls around the gated walls of the billionaires.
Unless this larger issue is addressed, nothing, and I mean nothing, will be done right when it comes to health insurance in the country.
Unless this larger issue is addressed, nothing, and I mean nothing, will be done right when it comes to health insurance in the country.
21
Taxes and perpetual electioneering dominate the world's perception of America. Americans hate paying taxes, the war of independence was fought because of taxes. Government stagnates because of constant political campaigning. It's not what's good for the country it is what will get you elected. America is 5o years behind the rest of the western economies in regard to healthcare.
15
Paul Ryan and Scott Walker are 2 peas in a pod. Puppets to ultra rich donors.
Citizens United can't be reversed soon enough. Put the power back to the people, they'll vote for their own interests.
Citizens United can't be reversed soon enough. Put the power back to the people, they'll vote for their own interests.
11
Then you better get busy finding other people to run for office in Wisconsin.
3
Republicans will pay dearly in 2018. Older people and those who support older people should work hard to insure that Republicans loose as many seats as possible in 2018.
9
No, they won't. People voting for Trump did so for emotional reasons and hardly because of facts (like Trump being a failure as businessman), which will be ignored anyways.
And somehow everything the GOP does now will still be Obama's fault.
You'll see.
And somehow everything the GOP does now will still be Obama's fault.
You'll see.
What about how Obamacare forces young, generally healthier people to buy insurance that costs many times what they would otherwise spend on healthcare (many of whom would choose not to buy health insurance if they had the choice and would come out greatly ahead for it) to reduce the cost for those whose costs are astronomical, primarily the elderly. Obamacare was a wealth transfer towards older Americans even more than previous programs like Medicare.
2
You don't seem to understand the value of a risk pool that includes healthy people.
Compare it to car insurance: The risk pool includes safe drivers who have never been in a collision or made a claim on their insurance, yet they are required to carry insurance on their cars.
Do you now see why the ACA has a mandate for all?
Compare it to car insurance: The risk pool includes safe drivers who have never been in a collision or made a claim on their insurance, yet they are required to carry insurance on their cars.
Do you now see why the ACA has a mandate for all?
1
Ahhh - Tom, but the young do become old. And so it goes.
2
What is it about automobile insurance that forces generally safer drivers to buy insurance? The answer becomes obvious when even as a safer driver someone smashes into you and you have coverage.
1
I see a number of references to "Obamacare" in comparison to the American Health Care Act or the "Republican plan". I am curious why the NYT is not calling this bill the proposed "Trumpcare"?
5
GOP Death Panels. Any comments Sarah P?
11
Ryan wants us to believe he is doing something good--even benevolent--. But the thing is, his 'plan' is truly insidious, and has a lot in common with the same arguments that brought the Nazis to power--the presumption that reducing those who are a 'burden' to society is doing us all good. It's a big fat lie and needs to be exposed for what it is.
11
Should the GOP acknowledge that a large percentage of their constituents are older, or does the GOP simply not care? In effect, are they ignoring current voters in hopes that "natural circumstances" will lead to a better turnout in the future? . . . The GOP has no soul.
6
I'm 63. I don't have insurance. I can't afford it. I work freelance because too many employers won't hire me.
I don't have $1000/m to pay for insurance that won't cover simple visits until there's a $500 minimum reached and won't cover dental or vision at all -- two that I need the most. Even if I could find a policy, it won't cover what I need.
Two years ago, I had an EyeMed plan. For my $1200 prescription+frames and $350 doctor visit, they paid.... $200 grudgingly.
Sure, the republicans pretend people choose not to have insurance; that insurance is available. It's not ACCESSIBLE. I work 50hrs/week and barely make $1500 / month. I should starve, give every penny to insurance that would do their best to pay zero.
I couldn't get a subsidy under the ACA because I wasn't working at all and didn't enough to get a subsidy. I live in a state that didn't expand medicaid. So, I can't get that either. I'm not on SSI so I can't get Medicare.
I'd like to visit a doctor. But $500 for that initial office visit is too much for me. I'd like to get an abscessed tooth removed and replaced with an implant but I can't afford the $3500 that will cost. I'd like to get the bridge I had to get back in 2006 replaced (it never fit properly), but that's $12,000 and insurance won't cover it. I need a new pair of glasses. That's going to be $1800. Don't have that either.
So please, to all the republicans who are pushing this 'plan,' tell me how much you care about my welfare.
I don't have $1000/m to pay for insurance that won't cover simple visits until there's a $500 minimum reached and won't cover dental or vision at all -- two that I need the most. Even if I could find a policy, it won't cover what I need.
Two years ago, I had an EyeMed plan. For my $1200 prescription+frames and $350 doctor visit, they paid.... $200 grudgingly.
Sure, the republicans pretend people choose not to have insurance; that insurance is available. It's not ACCESSIBLE. I work 50hrs/week and barely make $1500 / month. I should starve, give every penny to insurance that would do their best to pay zero.
I couldn't get a subsidy under the ACA because I wasn't working at all and didn't enough to get a subsidy. I live in a state that didn't expand medicaid. So, I can't get that either. I'm not on SSI so I can't get Medicare.
I'd like to visit a doctor. But $500 for that initial office visit is too much for me. I'd like to get an abscessed tooth removed and replaced with an implant but I can't afford the $3500 that will cost. I'd like to get the bridge I had to get back in 2006 replaced (it never fit properly), but that's $12,000 and insurance won't cover it. I need a new pair of glasses. That's going to be $1800. Don't have that either.
So please, to all the republicans who are pushing this 'plan,' tell me how much you care about my welfare.
22
get your glasses on line - cheap Chinese mail order.
What is there to hope that the working class among GOP supporters will push back against Ryancare? The Republicans opposed healthcare reform. Democrats had the ideas for parental coverage until 26 and no disqualification for preexisting conditions--the aspects of healthcare beloved by all. At townhall meetings, Trump supporters explain that Obamacare saved their lives. But they also explained that,--literally for some--with their lives on the line, they voted for Trump. Trump offered no alternative to Obamacare. Neither did the GOP. Since election, Trump admitted finding healthcare unbelievably complicated. And, indeed, Trump had demonstrated ranked ignorance around healthcare even as a candidate.
But the people believed Trump and the GOP to fix what they neither ever wanted and always opposed. With the roll-out of Ryancare, Trump and the GOP merely affirm identifies,--opponents of expanded government-aided health services. And I don't see anything to suggest that their supporters won't be who they always have been--duped. #sad
But the people believed Trump and the GOP to fix what they neither ever wanted and always opposed. With the roll-out of Ryancare, Trump and the GOP merely affirm identifies,--opponents of expanded government-aided health services. And I don't see anything to suggest that their supporters won't be who they always have been--duped. #sad
7
Paul Ryan's healthcare bill is a 'fake' offer, a fraud by any other name, and a cruel joke on millions of poor and middle class folks that will lose coverage. And without an individual mandate, the premium for those older and with serious illness would become prohibitive. Ryan's monstrosity is a vain attempt to slam Obamacare as a 'disaster'; nothing farther from the truth now that it is fully functional...and serving some 20 million people. That crooked lying Trump calls this new disastrous bill a 'huge' success, a 'marvelous' feat, a 'tremendous' beauty, is just one more make-believe made-for-TV fiction. Or, for a politician's benefit, 'pure wind'.
12
It is incomprehensible to me that anyone would vote for a Republican candidate ever again. The party as a whole will always put their (financial) supporters first and the American people - particularly the most vulnerable - last. How many times do we have to experience this to understand it? The party has become an embarrassment, with its hate for those who can't sponsor them. Add to this the undertones of racism and xenophobia that are increasingly evident from their supporters and you have a stink that will overtake us all.
Start looking at the 2018 elections! Get active and support candidates who will undo this horror! Give them your money, your time and your vote. Better still, consider running yourself. Taking an election for granted, as we did in 2016, can NEVER happen again!
Start looking at the 2018 elections! Get active and support candidates who will undo this horror! Give them your money, your time and your vote. Better still, consider running yourself. Taking an election for granted, as we did in 2016, can NEVER happen again!
29
Hey Ryan I'm way ahead of ya. I've already left the individual market. Older, self-employed - eh, no one cares about people in this category. Not one bit. My premiums tripled, I don't qualify for your subsidies - hey it's all a scam, anyway. No one does anything about controlling costs. It's all a scam - lies. No one's premiums are going to go down - especially not older, self-employed people. Healthcare costs entirely too much in this country. Why doesn't Trump get together a group of experts to tackle that? Nope. Won't happen.
That's okay though. All I want out of this administration is the repeal of the individual mandate. I'm going to stay with catastrophic insurance and you and your whole mess of a healthcare plan can go hang. #Resist
That's okay though. All I want out of this administration is the repeal of the individual mandate. I'm going to stay with catastrophic insurance and you and your whole mess of a healthcare plan can go hang. #Resist
3
Speaker Ryan and Secretary Price:
Your lack of concern for middle class people in need of insurance is astonishing. Those who will lose coverage under Trumpcare undoubtedly will not be able to select the insurance of their choice. How will they pay for it? Those who will have choice under Trumpcare already have choice now because they can pay for it.
Your lack of concern for middle class people in need of insurance is astonishing. Those who will lose coverage under Trumpcare undoubtedly will not be able to select the insurance of their choice. How will they pay for it? Those who will have choice under Trumpcare already have choice now because they can pay for it.
9
The Democrats need to do everything they can to make sure that the public knows for certain who came up with this. They need to go on every show and sound the alarm. They need to let Trump sign this. Then when the predictions all come true they will be able to use this when the next election rolls around. Exactly the same way that the GOP used Obamacare. Oh, and call it Trumpcare. Always call it Trumpcare.
10
here are secrets for NYT readers. The US is broke. both congressional parties have practiced voodoo economic for decades.. foreigners are financing US budget deficits. once they stop the dollar collapses.
the solution for health care is that EVERYBODY has to join and contribute, including the poor on welfare , government workers and millennial stay at home video players. plans should be chosen from competitive private plans. if not there is always the hospital emergency until the health system collapses.
sounds disgusting, but isn't it reality, fellow readers?
the solution for health care is that EVERYBODY has to join and contribute, including the poor on welfare , government workers and millennial stay at home video players. plans should be chosen from competitive private plans. if not there is always the hospital emergency until the health system collapses.
sounds disgusting, but isn't it reality, fellow readers?
3
So let me be that guy. Why should those who have the least earning potential be forced to pay? How does taxing the poor magically become good when the insurance companies are profiting?
Obamacare is based on two fundamentals: Indenturing every American to the insurance companies, and forcing those who earn the least to pay for those who cost the most.
Obamacare is based on two fundamentals: Indenturing every American to the insurance companies, and forcing those who earn the least to pay for those who cost the most.
2
Not correct, regarding those earning the least to pay for those who cost the most. Those earning more than $250k or so are taxed, and those funds go to help subsidize costs for those who qualify. The poor are not being taxed under the ACA.
7
No, carlos, if you fail to pay the insurance companies, you will most certainly be "taxed", as the supreme court renamed the fine. The poor are most certainly be taxed. The young poor are forced to pay the insurance companies to subsidize those who can afford more.
Sadly, Congress has no idea what the average voter needs or experiences when illness strikes,, and seems to care less. Every congress-person who votes for this plan, and their spouses, children and especially parents. should be required to give up the gold-plated health insurance and health care to which they now have access at public expense, and be covered by "Trump Care" . We would see some rapid back-pedalling. The same should have happened with the ACA, which was a vast improvement by virtue of being affordable insurance, but failed because actual care remained unaffordable for the average family with any serious illness, due to the insurance's companies' successful lobbying for high deductibles and annual caps .
6
They should also be required to stop getting their parents on Medicaid when they need nursing home care.
1
The countries that we fought to save in WWII all have universal health care while we continue to pay for more useless wars and cater to the rich. We may opt out of more taxes and move to France where at least we know the taxes will provide social services more equitably.
55
I guess this means the inevitable: as a senior citizen, if I receive a diagnosis that would involve medical costs that I cannot afford, I will simply commit suicide. I will die anyway, if I cannot afford the care. And the Republicans can take the blame for my early death.
55
If you are driven to suicide, please do it with camera coverage on the steps of the Capital.
9
not true. you would be on medicaid, nyt readers seem subject to hysterical outbursts.
Are you a case worker who helps people determine whether they qualify for Medicaid Charles? It's not like buying ice cream, and frankly I am not sure you know what you are talking about.
1
Pushing older people off health insurance is a tried and true method of increasing profitability pioneered and perfected by the private health insurance Medicare Advantage plans. So what if it increases death, dying and bankruptcy.
If the private health insurance plans administering Medicare Advantage patients can sacrifice patients in the name of profits for their shareholders, bondholders, bureaucrats and patron politicians, so then can our Congress and Administration do the same.
Interesting, when Donald ran for president he said he didn't want to see anyone dying in the streets. Apparently he either doesn't care, or he can't see the streets.
If the private health insurance plans administering Medicare Advantage patients can sacrifice patients in the name of profits for their shareholders, bondholders, bureaucrats and patron politicians, so then can our Congress and Administration do the same.
Interesting, when Donald ran for president he said he didn't want to see anyone dying in the streets. Apparently he either doesn't care, or he can't see the streets.
43
Medicare Advantage plans are for people over 65, who are enrolled in Medicare. MA plans do save money on co -pays, so I don't know what you are talking about.
2
Yes, Medicare Advantage plans are indeed for people over 65, but they save money for insurers, not people covered by the plans. They often sound like a good deal to indiividuals because they are cheaper than paying for a traditional Medicare supplement (which many insurers, like Blue Cross in NY, no longer sell because not enough profit). However, they typically provide less care in serious situations, like forcing people out of the hospital in shorter periods than under a Medicare Supplement, and providing shorter periods of rehab, often forcing people out before rehab facility thinks wise, thus forcing patient to pay for extra days.
3
Can the GOP offer a reasonable explanation as to why Medicare should not be available to those ages 55 - 65? It would take the pressure off the healthcare market and if we, as a country, cannot abide the thought of universal health care (I can!) at least would be a start until the marketplace "adjusts" to TrumpCare. Frankly, I was baffled until I recalled that The GOP plans to reinvent Medicare with some lesser voucher system. Then I understood.
24
Leslie, Medicare is expensive. People pay in to get over a life time to get it.
1
Juanita: There's no reason why people in the 55-65 group couldn't be required to pay more than people over 65. Also, keep in mind Medicare is already paying benefits on behalf of many many people who contributed little, if anything, to it: ex-spouses who are getting ex-spouse Social Security benefits; younger, sometimes much younger people who are on Social Security disability (and THAT is I believe the fastest growing area of Medicare expense as more and more people who lose their jobs apply for disability).
Not quite right. Current payroll taxes pay for those already on Medicare. It's not like a savings account.
GOP health plan: please die
GOP tax plan: give to the rich
GOP religion: christian? Really?
GOP tax plan: give to the rich
GOP religion: christian? Really?
22
Look, healthcare delivery in the US is a dirty racket. Look at the list below of countries who provide universal healthcare to their citizens. Some of these countries have been delivering universal healthcare for many decades. Personally I'm investigating healthcare in Cuba. See the list and weep.
Country Start Date of
Universal Health Care
Australia 1975
Austria 1967
Bahrain 1957
Belgium 1945
Brunei 1958
Canada 1966
Cyprus 1980
Denmark 1973
Finland 1972
France 1974
Germany 1941
Greece 1983
Hong Kong 1993
Iceland 1990
Ireland 1977
Israel 1995
Italy 1978
Japan 1938
Kuwait 1950
Luxembourg 1973
Netherlands 1966
New Zealand 1938
Norway 1912
Portugal 1979
Singapore 1993
Slovenia 1972
South Korea 1988
Spain 1986
Sweden 1955
Switzerland 1994
United Arab Emirates 1971
United Kingdom 1948
Country Start Date of
Universal Health Care
Australia 1975
Austria 1967
Bahrain 1957
Belgium 1945
Brunei 1958
Canada 1966
Cyprus 1980
Denmark 1973
Finland 1972
France 1974
Germany 1941
Greece 1983
Hong Kong 1993
Iceland 1990
Ireland 1977
Israel 1995
Italy 1978
Japan 1938
Kuwait 1950
Luxembourg 1973
Netherlands 1966
New Zealand 1938
Norway 1912
Portugal 1979
Singapore 1993
Slovenia 1972
South Korea 1988
Spain 1986
Sweden 1955
Switzerland 1994
United Arab Emirates 1971
United Kingdom 1948
34
Good point. I guess nobody, anywhere, is as callous, greedy and selfish as our Republicans and the plutocrats they work for. Will somebody please throw some ice water on the president's face. Is he paying any attention at all? Does he want this to be his legacy?
6
who do we blame? The AMA, insurance companies, politicians? Or our 'American independent spirit' - e.g., that promotes running from "socialism" or "socialized medicine" as fast as possible. So short-sighted and mean-spirited.
The party that railed against "Death Panels" now advocates the "freedom" to not afford even the possibility of health care. Err ... at least there is certainty of death in their plan for some people?
10
Who cares? The oldesters among the 62million that voted for Tweeter will be dead. They clearly don't care about the consequences.
7
I care.
I didn't vote for him. And I'd like to age with some dignity and peace of mind, thank you very much.
I didn't vote for him. And I'd like to age with some dignity and peace of mind, thank you very much.
11
It's almost impossible here to count the number of broad, and false, generalizations about this healthcare reform bill. There are so many, many more than when the world was all agog at the impending disaster of the ACA, which was not "A" as it turned out, nor did it "C", but it sure was an act. As in farce.
2
The republicans have a plan for old people.
Let them die quickly and quietly.
The republicans also have another plan to save the federal govt $B.
Provide social security and Medicare as a tax rebate rather than another gubmint handout.
The republicans also have another plan for global warming.
Hand out, no, sell life preservers to coastal residents.
The republicans also have another plan for mathematics.
Mandate dynamic scoring of answers.
Mamas, don't let your kids grow up to be republicans.
Let them die quickly and quietly.
The republicans also have another plan to save the federal govt $B.
Provide social security and Medicare as a tax rebate rather than another gubmint handout.
The republicans also have another plan for global warming.
Hand out, no, sell life preservers to coastal residents.
The republicans also have another plan for mathematics.
Mandate dynamic scoring of answers.
Mamas, don't let your kids grow up to be republicans.
31
John Cassidy, The New Yorker: "... The drop in spending on Medicaid helps explain why the C.B.O. estimated that the G.O.P. reform would reduce the deficit by three hundred and thirty-seven billion dollars—a fact that some Republicans seized upon. But why, you might ask, would the deficit be reduced by just three hundred and thirty-seven billion dollars over ten years when spending on Medicaid would fall by eight hundred and eighty billion dollars? The answer is that the bill would take most of the money that is saved from reducing Medicaid and hand it out to rich people in the form of tax cuts. The legislation would abolish the 3.8-per-cent Medicare tax on investment income and the 0.9-per-cent surtax on ordinary income that the A.C.A. applied to people who make more than two hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year. According to the C.B.O., getting rid of these taxes and some annual fees that the A.C.A. imposed on insurers would reduce revenues by five hundred and ninety-two billion dollars over ten years."
25
Yes indeed. Also, I think it's time to "push out" another group of older people -- former and retired members of Congress who get lifetime comprehensive medical, dental and vision care at low cost.
6
No matter our political leanings, I as most Europeans praise the Lord because (1) we live in societies where everyone is guaranteed quality health care, and (2) without the shame of having elected this miserable bunch of clueless evil-doers.
The only uplifting thing in this sad tale will be when the small minority of Amricans who elected Trump and republican congressmen senators realize how they have been conned and lied to. They are a gullible bunch but maybe when mom and dad or uncle Harry die early from a trivial and utterly curable disease, because they couldn't afford the "cheaper and better" Trump-care, it will finally sink in.
The only uplifting thing in this sad tale will be when the small minority of Amricans who elected Trump and republican congressmen senators realize how they have been conned and lied to. They are a gullible bunch but maybe when mom and dad or uncle Harry die early from a trivial and utterly curable disease, because they couldn't afford the "cheaper and better" Trump-care, it will finally sink in.
39
To the devil with private health insurance companies. Quality Medicare for all Americans.
39
Guess Mr Trump and his 'party aren't loyal to his key voting block (older americans)
And Mr Price, you truly don't deserve to be called Dr. You make me sick, as you will millions of older Americans when they can't afford insurance.
And Mr Price, you truly don't deserve to be called Dr. You make me sick, as you will millions of older Americans when they can't afford insurance.
22
Price is an arrogant, greedy, nauseating piece of work. His only interest is in keeping physician salaries as high as possible, and lining his pockets with pay offs from the health insurance lobby. He is a parasite who profits off the suffering of others. Most of these republican politicians are in the same category. I have to say that lately I have much warmer feelings for John McCain, as long as he is not all talk, and no action.
20
Under Trumpcare the list of elective surgery's (where insurance doesn't cover) will grow to include, anything that requires a scalpel.
6
Not everyone will use insurance but everyone will eventually need health care.
The idea of one payer healthcare system is not to socialize medicine but to recognize that medicine is a need not a want and must be paid for by the whole population in order for it to be available for rich and poor alike.
The government for years has subsidized healthcare for every person in the US whatever their income through Medicare, Medicaid, research and grants. The US government spends more on healthcare per capita than any other government in the world. A billionaire is out of luck if he or she gets sick and the hospital is out of business.
Ryan's congress and Trump's administration want to return to a time when the country didn't need government - when people burned wood for warmth and chewed leaves to relieve pain. The wealth class made their wealth by selling to the lower classes a better way of doing things - fuel oil, medical treatments, electricity, centralized food supply, manufactured goods. Where do they think their money comes from, their own electricity, healthcare, food, goods but from the entire economy making money for them.
Instead of trying to kill their golden goose, perhaps they should work to preserve it.
The idea of one payer healthcare system is not to socialize medicine but to recognize that medicine is a need not a want and must be paid for by the whole population in order for it to be available for rich and poor alike.
The government for years has subsidized healthcare for every person in the US whatever their income through Medicare, Medicaid, research and grants. The US government spends more on healthcare per capita than any other government in the world. A billionaire is out of luck if he or she gets sick and the hospital is out of business.
Ryan's congress and Trump's administration want to return to a time when the country didn't need government - when people burned wood for warmth and chewed leaves to relieve pain. The wealth class made their wealth by selling to the lower classes a better way of doing things - fuel oil, medical treatments, electricity, centralized food supply, manufactured goods. Where do they think their money comes from, their own electricity, healthcare, food, goods but from the entire economy making money for them.
Instead of trying to kill their golden goose, perhaps they should work to preserve it.
17
Seems that the Republican plan is to put Granny out on the ice floe (unless she is wealthy). Thanks a lot, Paul Ryan!
19
Actually, this very publication, thought to be "liberal" has been running a series of articles that all subtly endorse the idea of euthanizing seniors (denying access to ICU, for example) in one way or another, so Republicans aren't the only ones with this goal.
Time to bend over, Trumps about to shaft you guys, He talks up Australia's Immigration laws, he should also check our Public Health System (not perfect but works OK)
4
Finally GOP is coming out from the closet .. its for the super rich and wealthy and does not care a thing about the rural voters that have elected Mr Trump to take care of their needs.
Now go find solace in the fact that you will not have top wait in "line" to get medical help. You will not be allowed in since you cannot pay it!
Of course you can have your choices. you doctor/your nurse etc . just show me the money !
Now go find solace in the fact that you will not have top wait in "line" to get medical help. You will not be allowed in since you cannot pay it!
Of course you can have your choices. you doctor/your nurse etc . just show me the money !
5
Ryan: “And if we end an Obamacare mandate that says you must buy this government one-size-fits-all plan, guess what? People aren’t going to buy that.”
And those people who don't buy insurance go without preventive care, get sick, and go to emergency rooms, where they get "free" care subsidized by all the rest of us who do have insurance. Guess what? That's where we were in 2008.
And those people who don't buy insurance go without preventive care, get sick, and go to emergency rooms, where they get "free" care subsidized by all the rest of us who do have insurance. Guess what? That's where we were in 2008.
11
Will no media person please exert yourself and get an actual insurancce expert to explain that "one size fits all" plans are the cheapest way to go, overall? Putting people in pools according to their risk is what jacks up premiums. God, I am tired of screaming these obvious things at the TV while the likes of Wolf Bliter and John King and co. fail to ask the obvious follow-up questions.
3
It's about time that people pay their fair share. Why should the stressed-out middle class and younger workers have to subsidize Medicaid patients. Shouldn't we ask Medicaid patients to have skin in the game? Just because they claim to be poor (many probably work off the books) shouldn't they pay a co-pay, say $5 even if it means having to forgo the latest iPhone upgrade.
Next up, the Ponzi Scheme called Social Security. The elderly geezers who are receiving benefits way in excess of their Social Security contributions should be put on notice that the days of feeding at the Government trough are over. We have the computing power to calculate everyone's total contributions, apply a rate of return and at retirement buy an annuity from a private insurance company for that person. No longer will Social Security be an open-ended Welfare system but instead will be an actual retirement plan..
Next up, the Ponzi Scheme called Social Security. The elderly geezers who are receiving benefits way in excess of their Social Security contributions should be put on notice that the days of feeding at the Government trough are over. We have the computing power to calculate everyone's total contributions, apply a rate of return and at retirement buy an annuity from a private insurance company for that person. No longer will Social Security be an open-ended Welfare system but instead will be an actual retirement plan..
3
Wow, hope you never become a geezer and need help to afford your insurance. Let them eat cake?
6
One day these people will grow old also.
5
Your fact-free assessment is sad.
2
So, the GOP healthcare legacy will be to lower US life expectancy down to third world levels. But, good news. It won't effect the legislators or their kin. Honestly, how do these creeps live with themselves?
15
If this plan goes through, we will know that government of the people, by the people, and for the people has left the country.
14
That was 8 years ago when Obama and Pelosi enslaved every American to the insurance companies.
I'm confused.. Bernie says new plan offers 275 billion in tax breaks. Ryan says it will lead to a $335 billion deficit reduction. Has Ryan and CBO figured in the lower tax revenue in figuring out their figures for deficit reduction?
Yes.. See report
2
Paul Ryan is called Policy wonk! God help me. The guy spends 6 years to come up with a plan that will take care of him and rich people. He is not a policy wonk. He is just a ideologue that helps the rich.
26
i watched the West Virginia town hall meeting last night with Bernie Sanders. It was a real eye opener with regard to health insurance for not only the elderly but those with lower incomes. The ACA has their backs covered. They have settled into the ACA. They get it. These people are desperate without the ACA. And there sat Bernie Sanders listening and understanding their health insurance needs. And the audience was respectful and grateful to have a sympathetic ear. The Republicans will do irreparable harm if they repeal and replace the ACA. Just listen to the citizens of West Virginia.
27
Bernie is a national treasure, the man they voted for could never be bothered to comfort them.
11
What is really sad about all of this is that what will probably kill this bill is not the draconian approach of stripping millions of older and lower income Americans of any health insurance. Since Republicans have control, what will kill this bill is conservative infighting about just how much older and poorer Americans should lose, those who think this is not nearly draconian enough will end up killing this bill. Who votes for these people and why?
17
Ignorant people, with a few exceptions.. Some were desperate like rust belt and coal miners.. GOP fought Obama on every effort to create jobs but most people are too ignorant to see that.. However only 26% of registered voters went for Trump. So there is some hope.
8
Whoever it is that votes for them has been hoodwinked...or is voting for right wing ideologies that are HORRIFIC, and that are designed to hurt others, to deny others, and to disenfranchise others. But those voters are going to learn what KARMA is when, because of their own malice, gullibility, stupidity, or stubbornness, they, along with the people that they want to harm, deny, and disenfranchise, find themselves the recipients of harm, denial, and disenfranchisement. The only ones who will not be hurt that voted for these republican charlatans are the very wealthy...but those who voted republican because they are racists, misogynists, xenophobes, anti-abortion fanatics...a lot of those "charming" souls are going to be in for the shock of their lives when they find out that the deck is stacked against THEM. Sometimes you do reap what you sow. Sometimes what goes around actually does come around. Not often enough, but when it does...the universe becomes more balanced.
2
The US simply cannot afford the Medicare and Medicaid bills for aging Boomers like me. It is crowding out all other investment, especially for the young.
If the way we deal with this is for aging Boomers to become uninsured, and then uncared for, well we had a lot of advantages, we enjoyed life, we can still have moral authority (especially if we don't take food and jobs from our children and grandchildren, and other people's children and grandchildren), and we should remember what another President said when we were young:
"Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country."
If the way we deal with this is for aging Boomers to become uninsured, and then uncared for, well we had a lot of advantages, we enjoyed life, we can still have moral authority (especially if we don't take food and jobs from our children and grandchildren, and other people's children and grandchildren), and we should remember what another President said when we were young:
"Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country."
4
Or you could just do the truly honorable thing and just kill yourself right now. Why wait?
15
So, you're offering to kill yourself to save money? Is that it?
1
Actually the US can afford it. It's called taxing the highest earners at highers rates. Take capital gains at income levels and no corporate welfare.
These people/corporations have fleeced America enough. It's time for them to give back what they have taken.
These people/corporations have fleeced America enough. It's time for them to give back what they have taken.
3
Ryan certainly didn't give the forgotten men and women Mr Trump claimed as his supporters much thought other than as a piggy bank to finance his tax cuts. 2018 can't get here soon enough.
23
Trump campaigned that he would replace the ACA (Obamacare) with something better. Many voters supported him on this promise. Had Trump campaigned solely on the repeal of the ACA, these voters would not have supported him and he wouldn't have won the election. But rather than coming up with his own plan, he is leaving it to the Republicans in Congress because they had railed against the ACA since its inception. He doesn't want to do the work, just delegate. But that is not what he promised. If a viable replacement never comes, then in 2018 the electorate will let the GOP know that they should not have supported a candidate that lied to them. It is time for them to learn that Trump is not their friend or colleague, before he hangs them out to dry.
14
I think the CBO is underestimating how many younger people will simply drop coverage altogether. As a 20-something myself, it is easy to see insurance as an unnecessary expense. Even if premiums go down, why bother signing up. I have never yet had any need to use it, or been able to because I've never reached my deductible. I have an HSA that has come in handy a few times. If the Republicans roll back the ACA's requirement to buy insurance, I will definitely drop it and just sock the extra money away in a HYS account for emergencies. Why pay for coverage I never use? I could always sign up later if I had to, and just pay the slap-on-wrist 30% fee. What I'd like to know
3
That's fine, Mr. Adams, if your savings account covers the amount you will be charged for an accident. But the reality is most younger people do NOT save for emergencies. Do you really not think that hospitals calculate risk and adjust prices for EVERYONE accordingly? Many young people do not feel a mandate is fair. I don't think it fair that the fifty-somethings have higher medical bills because (some) twenty-somethings want a lifestyle that they (some) cannot yet responsibly afford. Perhaps at least a special catastrophic policy for younger people?
How about a little perspective? I see no mention that most Americans are eligible for Medicare when they turn 65. I also see no discussion of whether or not people aged 50-64 will pay more for health insurance under the Republican plan than they did before Obamacare.
It concerns me that you use the word "perspective" AND that you have found no discussion of how the AHCA may be worse for seniors. The discussion is at every website, in every paper. The new act will allow insurers to charge up to five times more for a policy for an older subscriber. The ACA allowed three. I don't think many seniors would have a problem telling you what the difference between those two amounts could buy. Like food.
2
What the Republican's don't tell you is the real reasons why Obamacare is failing; i.e. seven years of concentrated effort to make it fail. And they want Democrats to help them pass their bill? You have to be kidding me.
9
Health care is a business. Republicans do not see the human side of the business, they can only see the financial side and whoever suffers does not matter to them. If TrumpCare passes, it will take a long time for Democrats to clean up the mess, again.
8
Using age as a proxy for illness and medical "expensiveness," as the GOP plans does, is stupid unto itself. When you shift costs to older people, the first to drop coverage will be healthier older people. There actually are some. It benefits everyone to have these people in the risk pool. Driving them out is just another step to the adverse selection problems that the AHCA would create, and which would cause the collapse of the exchanges.
5
Agreed. The resulting premiums for those above 50 will spiral upwards, forcing more to drop insurance. If you can hang on to 65, Medicare kicks in and the public pays for 15 years of deferred medical care. Wonderful plan.
2
And without a mandate no healthy 20-something will get insurance unless it comes with the job. And perhaps a heap of folks on their 30s too. When you get sick, pay the 30% penalty for a year. Still cheaper than having insurance you don't use for ten years. My husband didn't visit a doctor from 18 to 33. Those are the people we need in the insurance pool.
2
They had, what six, seven years controlling both houses? And ample opportunity again and again to discuss making the ACA better, more affordable, more available and efficient. But no. They blocked, blocked, blocked. They had no ideas for what to replace it with, and no ideas on how to work with the sitting President. I hope they get a whipping in two years. They need a taste of some kind of medicine. And maybe some shock therapy.
11
I think I've figured your country out...
The Civil War is still not over.
Mic drop.
The Civil War is still not over.
Mic drop.
11
Paul Ryan has his revenge.
2
America got a small taste of what a universal healthcare system could be like. It will not forget until that goal is reached.
4
The 50-64 year old, low income demographic will be the most hurt? Well, they're the demographic that voted for Trump so this is obviously what they want. I'm not going to spend a lot of time worrying about them--they can stay in their bubble and I'll stay in mine. My bubble is much nicer.
6
Ryan is a disgrace. Is he giving up his gold plated taxpayer paid for health insurance?
4
The age 50–64 demographic is a large segment of the GOP base. Passing this plan should be political suicide. But I suppose Republicans are counting on these people to blame Obama or something else for their fate.
4
Well, the Republicans have finally made their prediction of "death panels" come true. The Republican-controlled 115th Congress IS the Death Panel.
4
Paul Ryan needs to read his bible and follow the teachings of Jesus. I'm not surprised by this generation's callous disregard for their elders. Remember, this is the generation that feels that they achieved all that they have all by themselves!!! Bravo, gen x!!! So happy that we boomers gave birth to you!!!
3
It's a plan to kill of the baby-boomers
4
The republican plan is just more of the same: create division against those who get a little vs those who get a little more and REWARD those who have lots of money and wealth who have more than they could ever spend.
2
So, basically, this plan lowers "average" premiums by pricing out older Americans from buying insurance at all, leaving only relatively wealthy young people able to buy insurance.
And that's on top of cutting off Medicaid to people with disabilities, and young children.
Does Ryan have absolutely no shame at all?
And that's on top of cutting off Medicaid to people with disabilities, and young children.
Does Ryan have absolutely no shame at all?
8
gee, my ACA policy premium remained the same or slightly reduced premium since I bought it. Not cheap, but nice to have those routine items covered. My routine (and if uninsured very costly) screening tests were covered - mammograms, colonoscopies. Doctor visits were reasonable. Annual physical covered.
so, let me get this straight: less stuff covered. Premium increase spiking 15 -20% (actually more, as I am in the 20-25% category, being over 60. And it is looking like the routine stuff won't be covered.
This is better how? Especially as the average price of my insurance after using a subsidy (minimal, but hey every bi helps0 and going to tax credits - will now be $14,600.
I can not afford this. Period. So, here's how I'll cover my health care needs: i will use the services i need, but rather than pay for them, I will utilize mr. Trump's proven business method - say the service was unsatisfactory, sue the medical providers and then declare bankruptcy. Sounds like a better plan than anything the republicans can possibly offer, with the added bonus of becoming a billionaire.
For all the whiners who don't want to pay in taxes for what they don't use: I've paid plenty in taxes for things that you use that I don't. This is part of belonging to a civil society.
so, let me get this straight: less stuff covered. Premium increase spiking 15 -20% (actually more, as I am in the 20-25% category, being over 60. And it is looking like the routine stuff won't be covered.
This is better how? Especially as the average price of my insurance after using a subsidy (minimal, but hey every bi helps0 and going to tax credits - will now be $14,600.
I can not afford this. Period. So, here's how I'll cover my health care needs: i will use the services i need, but rather than pay for them, I will utilize mr. Trump's proven business method - say the service was unsatisfactory, sue the medical providers and then declare bankruptcy. Sounds like a better plan than anything the republicans can possibly offer, with the added bonus of becoming a billionaire.
For all the whiners who don't want to pay in taxes for what they don't use: I've paid plenty in taxes for things that you use that I don't. This is part of belonging to a civil society.
9
Ryan's plan does offer a "one-size-fits-all" policy. It's still a bloated, packed policy designed to cost a fortune.
Well, Ryan will make sure that when he reaches 50 he has fed long enough at the public trough to have provided for himself and his family a comfortable living. And he does not need to worry about health insurance because the tax payers are paying for his gold-plated one.
So shameful.
Well, Ryan will make sure that when he reaches 50 he has fed long enough at the public trough to have provided for himself and his family a comfortable living. And he does not need to worry about health insurance because the tax payers are paying for his gold-plated one.
So shameful.
8
According to the CDC, the actual death rate for individuals aged 55 -64 is 9 times greater than the death rate for individuals aged 25 - 34. If insurance becomes unaffordable for members of this older and demonstrably more vulnerable demographic, Republicans will have created not a death panel but rather a firing squad.
18
Little more complicated than the team thought. Need to go back to the drawing board and figure out how to increase competition to bring prices down, provide more choices, and make a plan that enables the very large baby boomer generation 55-64 to afford health insurance premiums. This plan is dead on arrival.
9
There is no insurance competition. They collude to charge the same like the airlines.
1
Without a direct effort to control prices, and by that mean lower them, this will be a Republican band-aid on the healthcare problem instead of Obama's Democratic band-aid. We need a radical approach that slowly moves from a employer bases system to a national system.
5
It will be tough for a 60 year old making $26,000 to pay a healthcare premium of $14,750 but on the bright side their Heath Savings Account will make a huge difference. If this individual can save 5K a year to this tax free they will be fine.
2
What makes you think elderly have the years or dollars to save 5k? For most, that is 5 months of social security. Your suggestion is as absurd as the GOP plan.
4
A country is judged on how it treats its most vulnerable citizens and its elderly. So far, under Republican rule, they are setting up a premature death and a horrific life for our most vulnerable citizens and our elderly, but on the other hand, they treat our rich 2 percent extremely well and they, in turn, make sure the republican politicians are reelected so it can always continue this way.
25
Perfectly said.
2
“The Congressional Budget Office agrees that the American Health Care Act will ultimately lower premiums and increase access to care.” (Paul Ryan)
I have to wonder- how does he (and the rest) face themselves in the mirror every morning? Just how much currency did they get to cash in their souls?
I have to wonder- how does he (and the rest) face themselves in the mirror every morning? Just how much currency did they get to cash in their souls?
18
Seems to me that one day we will wake up from this nightmare and realize Soylent Green is people.
14
Trump said with new bill 'everyone' would be covered.
And those who have it will get to keep it. The change would
be as easy as changing a nappy. Guess not! It seems like a total
disaster .
One time write-off of twenty million people to
balance the books -- so simple! I guess he is trying to apply
lessons from his benefiting rom billion dollar bankruptcies to national healthcare.
And those who have it will get to keep it. The change would
be as easy as changing a nappy. Guess not! It seems like a total
disaster .
One time write-off of twenty million people to
balance the books -- so simple! I guess he is trying to apply
lessons from his benefiting rom billion dollar bankruptcies to national healthcare.
11
I too, can lower my monthly budget and be quite proud (just like Paul Ryan): I can have my electricity turned off; water too. Forget about buying food and the dog will just have to fend for himself. I can also become a squatter in my own home- till the back kicks me out, but the savings; I'm no longer in the Red.
25
The Trump/Ryan/McConnell plan: a government that does not represent the majority (Hillary won 3 million more votes than Trump) repeals necessary social programs, provides no new jobs and pushes people to the wall denying redress at the ballot box leading to civil unrest. Trump then calls out the federal military and police (who by the way get raises, new hires and new weapons while civilian federal employes are frozen and cut) in order to suppress US citizens and create a martial law (i.e. non-voting) system. Trump is a Russian mole dedicated to the weakening and subversion of the USA. Ryan is playing the same game with McConnell not far behind. God save the United States.
20
So we get age panels which lead to illness and possibly death. Wow, this is really not health care at all.
11
So basically, Trump and the GOP are screwing the very people that voted them in. Those people that lost their job to corporate inversions and automation will be the same people that will need affordable health insurance as they get older. Only they will not be able to afford it. That's what happens when you take the short sighted view. And by the way, don't count on those jobs coming back either. That's the next shoe that's going to drop.
11
I thought our most shameful moment as a nation was electing Trump. I was wrong. This tops that and I know There are many competing shameful moments to come.
17
Meanwhile the scions of the tRump and Kushner families are milking their new status and global business connections for all they are worth. THEY certainly aren't worried about their medical care, or their children's.
1
GOP: Not having health care due to high cost is a choice. We are proud to increase individual freedoms.
5
Sounds like a Death Panel to me.
9
There is a very simple way to lower premiums. Sell worthless insurance that won't pay out when you get sick. That's what the Republicans have in mind. They want people to have the "freedom" to choose junk insurance.
7
Older folks are Trump voters, for the most part. Let them have what they deserve.
As for younger people who ambition to live in a civilized society where there is care and compassion, the only option is to emigrate. Get a solid education, something you can still do in the US, and look for greener pastures abroad. The US used to be a country of immigrants, it is now time to reverse the tide.
As for younger people who ambition to live in a civilized society where there is care and compassion, the only option is to emigrate. Get a solid education, something you can still do in the US, and look for greener pastures abroad. The US used to be a country of immigrants, it is now time to reverse the tide.
6
I take extreme issue with your statement that Trump was voted in by us 'oldsters'... I know of not one person over 50 with whom I work who voted for him... Perhaps you need to associate with a larger demographic and not just those who most resemble you...
1
I am an older person, Monckton. I voted Democratic and all my friends and relatives did. So what we deserve, according to you, is no health care? I don't know how old you are, but IMO, you deserve a kick in the slats!
1
I moved from San Francisco to Australia
24 years ago. Healthcare for everyone is not controversial here. We have an excellent National Healthcare program. It is paid for through our annual tax returns.
Individuals pay a 2% surcharge on the tax they pay on their taxable income.
If you earn $37,000 your income tax would be (37,000-18,200 tax free) x .19= $3572. Low income taxpayets with taxable income of $18,800 in this case would get a TAX CREDIT of $445.
$3572-445= Tax Due $3127
The Surcharge for the National Health Insurance on your annual tax bill is
.02 x $3127= $63.
Your Total Tax Bill, including health cover,
would be $3127 63 = $3190.
This is $266/month for both Income Tax and Health Coverage.
Note: The $37,000 is in Australian dollars,
about $28,000 US Dollars. The total tax
per month computed in US dollars is $201.
This is for a typical young person, so your own situation might be different.
Australians with higher incomes are required to purchase Private Health Cover
as well. A family of 5 would pay AUD $560/ a month for private cover. Look up
BUPA AUSTRALIA. So these Australians
can use the flashier hospitals which takes
the pressure off the public hospitals.
The critical point is that THE DOCTORS worrk in both public and private hospitals.
You choose your own doctor. All HOSPITAL EMERGENCY ROOMS are in PUBLIC HOSPITALS. There is NO CHARGE. You already paid through your tax bill.
Bright young Americans should consider migrating.
24 years ago. Healthcare for everyone is not controversial here. We have an excellent National Healthcare program. It is paid for through our annual tax returns.
Individuals pay a 2% surcharge on the tax they pay on their taxable income.
If you earn $37,000 your income tax would be (37,000-18,200 tax free) x .19= $3572. Low income taxpayets with taxable income of $18,800 in this case would get a TAX CREDIT of $445.
$3572-445= Tax Due $3127
The Surcharge for the National Health Insurance on your annual tax bill is
.02 x $3127= $63.
Your Total Tax Bill, including health cover,
would be $3127 63 = $3190.
This is $266/month for both Income Tax and Health Coverage.
Note: The $37,000 is in Australian dollars,
about $28,000 US Dollars. The total tax
per month computed in US dollars is $201.
This is for a typical young person, so your own situation might be different.
Australians with higher incomes are required to purchase Private Health Cover
as well. A family of 5 would pay AUD $560/ a month for private cover. Look up
BUPA AUSTRALIA. So these Australians
can use the flashier hospitals which takes
the pressure off the public hospitals.
The critical point is that THE DOCTORS worrk in both public and private hospitals.
You choose your own doctor. All HOSPITAL EMERGENCY ROOMS are in PUBLIC HOSPITALS. There is NO CHARGE. You already paid through your tax bill.
Bright young Americans should consider migrating.
1
The White House wants to call this Ryancare, in case it fails and it will. I think it should be called Trumpscare, as the only way it will pass is not because it is better than Obamacare, but because those that thought Trump was a smart guy believe that Obamacare is failing drastically and they should get out and join the Trump train ASAP cause he said so. Then when this plan begins to falter, there will be a Phase 2, that will be rejected for financial reasons. Trump is smart all right, that is if you call being a good con artist smart.
4
What a disgrace this Healthcare Bill is? The GOP should hang their heads in shame for concocting such shameful legislation.
7
Call this what it is - Death Panels for the old, the sick and the mentally ill.
21
I’m so tired of Ryan, Price, and company asserting, “Americans want . . . [fill in your lie of choice]“ I am an American, and I do not want any part of what these hucksters are trying to sell.
What I would like to see: a universal healthcare system like those in other civilized countries.
What I would like to see: a universal healthcare system like those in other civilized countries.
59
Ask your representatives for a VAT to go with those plans, which is what all of those countries have too.
1
I don't pretend to be an expert on healthcare but somehow I doubt this reporting tells the whole story. We know that CBO must do its analysis based solely on the information it is given. We also know a) that there are two more parts to the Republican plan which haven't been fully announced and therefore which CBO cannot have considered, and b) that the HHS Secretary is empowered to make over 1400 rules and regs - at least some of which could materially affect the conclusions reached by CBO.
They have had SEVEN YEARS to come up with a fully-formed plan and be ready to sell it. Why now the mysterious phase 2, phase 3, et al? Thought tRump and party said they had an excellent plan ready to roll!
They are prevaricating, partisan gasbags with no more clue of how to build a health care system than of how to conjure Ronald Reagan back from the grave. If their very lives depended on it, this clown car of lawmakeres and executives couldn't organze a trip to the national zoo without error. Yet tens of millions of simpleton Americas handed over the reins of their lives to these charlatans.
Thanks, low-info crowd.
They are prevaricating, partisan gasbags with no more clue of how to build a health care system than of how to conjure Ronald Reagan back from the grave. If their very lives depended on it, this clown car of lawmakeres and executives couldn't organze a trip to the national zoo without error. Yet tens of millions of simpleton Americas handed over the reins of their lives to these charlatans.
Thanks, low-info crowd.
4
Phase 2 and phase 3 will never happen. My guess is that it will raise the deficit. The only rules and regs that the HHS Secretary will make are those that will benefit the bottom lines of the health care industry. Remember Trump said he will bring back jobs and we should only buy American. This is a case where shopping for quality health care will take Americans off shore because it will be better and cheaper overseas.
2
You must be joking in your post, HurryHarry. You imply the Republicans have put forth the terrible parts of the new health plan first. And that when Ryan and company finally release the rest of the plan we will be over joyed with the great benefits - keep the best till ls. That's a joke, right?
3
This GOP "Health Care" Unhealthy Plan is just another display of the hidden Economic Darwinism that has always permeated this party since the implementation of the New Deal!!! Now with the advent of their New Team Leader and the entire Economic Darwinism inclination that motivated this group, the GOP has decided to come out in full blast in spelling out the improbable market design of Health Care where Age groups are pitted against one another in the unbelievable spectrum of Insurance Actuarial schemes; the younger healthy ones will get all the gilded attention while the older (50 to 64) ones are left to fend for themselves (the 67 and plus are, thank God, taken care by the awful Johnson New Deal Medicare... ) while visited upon by lack of employment opportunities, increased health risks, and all the challenges that push this group slowly and surely into the KILLING FIELD!!!!
4
24 million people - equal to the combined populations of Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas, Mississippi, Arkansas, West Virginia, and Alaska.
Or, let's look at some bigger states: 24 million people is more than the combined populations of Oklahoma, Kentucky, Louisiana, Alabama, and South Carolina.
Or Tennessee, Indiana, Missouri, and Wisconsin. Almost as much as Arizona, Michigan and North Carolina. The equivalent of all the people of Georgia plus Ohio, or almost the entire state of Texas, losing their insurance almost overnight.
That's odd - all of those states voted for Trump. Go figger.
Or, let's look at some bigger states: 24 million people is more than the combined populations of Oklahoma, Kentucky, Louisiana, Alabama, and South Carolina.
Or Tennessee, Indiana, Missouri, and Wisconsin. Almost as much as Arizona, Michigan and North Carolina. The equivalent of all the people of Georgia plus Ohio, or almost the entire state of Texas, losing their insurance almost overnight.
That's odd - all of those states voted for Trump. Go figger.
16
"Under Obamacare, poorer customers get help not just with their premiums but with deductibles and co-payments for their plans."
So basically- people who work 3 jobs earn just enough to pay the healthcare costs for somebody who doesn't have a job.. That's the part about Obamacare which always rubbed me the wrong way.
So basically- people who work 3 jobs earn just enough to pay the healthcare costs for somebody who doesn't have a job.. That's the part about Obamacare which always rubbed me the wrong way.
How stupid can the Republican Congress be?
People over the age of 55 are the MOST RELIABLE group of voters to show up at the polls on election days. If this RepubliCON plan passes as is, the town hall meetings they are seeing now will only be a mild preview to the blood bath they're going to experience in 2018.
So go ahead, make my day!
People over the age of 55 are the MOST RELIABLE group of voters to show up at the polls on election days. If this RepubliCON plan passes as is, the town hall meetings they are seeing now will only be a mild preview to the blood bath they're going to experience in 2018.
So go ahead, make my day!
9
How does McConnell figure the bill would "increase access to care"?
Oh, wait -- he's a Republican. The facts are whatever you want them to be...
Oh, wait -- he's a Republican. The facts are whatever you want them to be...
6
As we all know the Republican plan is meant to get rid of government subsidies for health insurance to the poor and has nothing to do with lowering health care costs. To do this, they have to drive out people that are being subsidized or expand the pool of those insured. Since they also plan to let the market take over and take away the insurance mandate, that pool is likely to get smaller. Take away the smoke and mirrors and you have insurance for those that can pay, like it was before Obamacare was introduced, and less people insured - particularly those in high risk groups. To make you think you are not losing or worse off, there will be plans available, but to sort out what is best for you, since you don't know the future and what you might need, will be impossible to do. It is not the same as buying a cell phone where you know what you want and can assess the options.
They must know something we don't know...everyone is going to be getting really sick! We have one of the most unhealthy diets in the world, many people are overweight, diabetic and sick or going to be because of how they eat..the poor with the cheap fast food..The environment with all the unregulated oil and gas fracking polluting our air....the agriculture industry with all it's unregulated pesticides polluting our streams and seas...All the while the rich get richer and their going to get a big fat tax break..Yeah, I'm so looking forward to seeing people on the street dying & dead!! And let's build that wall so that everyone stays out, another lie, who is going to want to come and witness this carnage
Actually, the situation you describe should dissuade anyone from coming to this country. Millions upon millions of Dollars saved by not building the wall.
Don't get sick, injured or old in America. If you do, you will lose everything you own and even owe more in the end. This is the healthcare business model in the US. Has been for a very long time. In collusion with insurers and others.
If you are poor just keep going to the ER for all of your healthcare, like illegals do and never pay the bill.
If you are poor just keep going to the ER for all of your healthcare, like illegals do and never pay the bill.
2
I'm 60. It would be more humane if Paul Ryan would just come to my house and shoot me.
10
I hope you are in good health and nothing serious is coming down the pike. Also, the young ones that the health insurers are salivating to insure, how many of them are really healthy? So many overweight and Type2Diabetes candidates, along with associated diseases. A lot of older people we know are healthy: they eat properly, they maintain a good weight, and they exercise. Under Obama the older folks were already squeezed to the point where many couldn't afford health insurance. A couple would have to pay $1,800/month plus over $10,000 in deductible before the insurance kicks in. Under Ryan's plan the cost will be even higher. I hope there is Karma!!
3
Tuesday is Soylent Green Day.
2
Once again, the Republican party tends to the rich at the expense of those most vulnerable. This bill is a shameful travesty. If the Senate has any backbone at all, it will be DOA.
2
If the Trumpcare plan is so great, Paul Ryan could post an ONLINE CALCULATOR that allows Trump Voters and everyone else to anonymously plug in their personal circumstances and financial statistics so Americans can see for themselves how they would benefit under Trumpcare.
Our Honorable House and Senate Members could gather feedback on a District by District basis to
see how TRUMPCARE helps their constituents. The feedback will help them decide how to vote on the American Healthcare Act ( Trumpcare) proposed by the Republicans.
If the Republican Party is unable to to this,
maybe the AARP can help them with this
technological challenge.
It could go viral.
Our Honorable House and Senate Members could gather feedback on a District by District basis to
see how TRUMPCARE helps their constituents. The feedback will help them decide how to vote on the American Healthcare Act ( Trumpcare) proposed by the Republicans.
If the Republican Party is unable to to this,
maybe the AARP can help them with this
technological challenge.
It could go viral.
5
No....Paul Ryan and the rest of the GOP should be the first on the signup sheet for their own plan. If it's good enough for everyday Americans then it should be good enough for them too. Besides, the cadillac plan congress is on is funded by the taxpayers - the same ones that Paul and his buddies want to hose.
53 percent of voters between ages 45 and 64 voted for Trump. I feel sorry for the other 47 percent, but the rest are getting what they deserve.
11
Hmmm. Seems like Ryan has forgotten the old people vote.
9
He's betting they'll all have croaked by the time he tries a presidential run, and he can tell Millenials he spared them from paying for all of those old freeloaders.
2
Feel sorry for the older Americans. But guys/gals don't be disheartened. I live in Pakistan and I know the healthcare here and in the United States. Travel here for annual check-up or God forbid a serious procedure. You can afford it and live healthier life with your loved ones.
You have less chances of dying at the hands of Taliban here then in United States of America by these elected leaders.
You have less chances of dying at the hands of Taliban here then in United States of America by these elected leaders.
10
"We're going to have insurance for everybody"— Donald Trump, Washington Post interview, 01/15/2017
5
Keep an eye out for Republican references to MOOP (Maximum Out of Pocket) limits in the ACA, with respect to their so-called Phase 2 and Phase 3. The holy grail for these "freedom of choice" snake oil salesmen is to return to the time when insurance companies could sell insurance with very low premiums but extremely high deductibles, so-called catastrophic coverage plans. But they can't sell these, unless the MOOP is significantly raised or eliminated. The deductibles on ACA "Bronze" tier plans already approach the MOOP, so there is not much room to sell "Dirt" tier plans with even lower actuarial value.
There's nothing intrinsically wrong with low premium/high deductible plans, provided the insured actually have the wealth to cover 25K, 50K or even higher deductibles in the event of a health catastrophe. But otherwise, these plans are scams, planned looting of taxpayers to service insurer bottomlines. If someone without means carries a out-of-reach high deductible, they pay premiums, albeit low, receiving next to no benefits until catastrophe strikes; then they go immediately bankrupt, fail to make premium payments, lose their insurance, and file for Medicaid and/or in some cases County Health programs. Insurance companies profit. Taxpayers pay out.
There's nothing intrinsically wrong with low premium/high deductible plans, provided the insured actually have the wealth to cover 25K, 50K or even higher deductibles in the event of a health catastrophe. But otherwise, these plans are scams, planned looting of taxpayers to service insurer bottomlines. If someone without means carries a out-of-reach high deductible, they pay premiums, albeit low, receiving next to no benefits until catastrophe strikes; then they go immediately bankrupt, fail to make premium payments, lose their insurance, and file for Medicaid and/or in some cases County Health programs. Insurance companies profit. Taxpayers pay out.
3
Paul Ryan spoke of his family's history as refugees from the Irish famine. Does he forget how wealthy English governors of Ireland exported record amounts of food while millions of Irish peasants slowly starved? Does he forget that authorities refused to distribute free food donated by other nations -- because it would violate their sacrosanct free market principles?
Does he forget that "those people" -- his people! -- were considered backwards and worthless; the fewer the better. That the starving were evicted from their homes because farms were so much more productive without those drunken Papist parasites spawning like rabbits?
Fueled by bigotry, avarice, and a firm belief in free-market-uber-alles, policy makers ensured that a million Irish died horribly, and another million became so desperate that they packed into dangerous "coffin ships" hoping to survive passage to the U.S. Many did not.
All this, Paul Ryan has forgotten. He identifies now with the wealthy well-bred Enlglish oppressors, not the epic suffering of his Irish forebears, deprived by government of representation, education, property, earnings, respect, charity, dignity, and even life itself, under the guise of "free market choices" and "being self-sufficient."
He should cover his face in shame on this St. Patrick's Day. And so should Steve Bannon, who sees himself in the exterminator caste, and not in the vermin category his recent ancestors occupied.
Does he forget that "those people" -- his people! -- were considered backwards and worthless; the fewer the better. That the starving were evicted from their homes because farms were so much more productive without those drunken Papist parasites spawning like rabbits?
Fueled by bigotry, avarice, and a firm belief in free-market-uber-alles, policy makers ensured that a million Irish died horribly, and another million became so desperate that they packed into dangerous "coffin ships" hoping to survive passage to the U.S. Many did not.
All this, Paul Ryan has forgotten. He identifies now with the wealthy well-bred Enlglish oppressors, not the epic suffering of his Irish forebears, deprived by government of representation, education, property, earnings, respect, charity, dignity, and even life itself, under the guise of "free market choices" and "being self-sufficient."
He should cover his face in shame on this St. Patrick's Day. And so should Steve Bannon, who sees himself in the exterminator caste, and not in the vermin category his recent ancestors occupied.
16
Some groups identify with their experience of less-fortunate times and use it as a moral guide ("we ourselves were once slaves in Egypt"). Others regard it as a shameful taint to be denied and lived down.
2
This is our first taste of getting Trumped. Most Trump voters are now experiencing what Trump investors, creditors, workers and suppliers have been experiencing for years. We tried to warn you guys. Too bad you get your 'news' only from Fox etc..
12
Lower premiums mean nothing when the deductibles are unaffordable. If you don’t have the money to cover the deductible, it is pure profit for the insurance company because you never file a claim. What a scam! And it is low income and the retired elderly families that are most effected by these practices.
Apparently, protecting private profits is more important that providing public health care. What will it take to get Federal single-payer health care?
Apparently, protecting private profits is more important that providing public health care. What will it take to get Federal single-payer health care?
6
They don't even know how to pretend they care.
25
They don't. But do we know how to flush them from elected office?
Everyone resist the lure of despair. Go to work now to reclaim the House in 2018.
Everyone resist the lure of despair. Go to work now to reclaim the House in 2018.
7
"Those older customers who would lose out on insurance coverage are more likely than the young customers who would buy it to need help paying big medical bills."
I'll wager the person who wrote this sentence has excellent coverage.
And that's fine. She should not be punished because of her ineptness at writing.
Try this - "Those older customers who would lose out on insurance coverage are more likely to need help paying big medical bills than the young customers who would buy it.
PS - We are screwed.
I'll wager the person who wrote this sentence has excellent coverage.
And that's fine. She should not be punished because of her ineptness at writing.
Try this - "Those older customers who would lose out on insurance coverage are more likely to need help paying big medical bills than the young customers who would buy it.
PS - We are screwed.
11
If the Trump administration plans an infrastructure spending program, I suggest that Emergency Rooms are put high on the list of projects. That way, older Americans, and the poor who lose health care, will have a place to go.
17
I know that he was blasted when he described Ryancare in 2009, but Rep. Alan Grayson was correct: He said (as I recall): "The GOP plan is: 1. Don't get sick. 2. If you get sick, die quickly."
Here we are in 2017 and that seems to be the plan for most everyone.
Here we are in 2017 and that seems to be the plan for most everyone.
20
So here it is a, snowy, blizzarding afternoon, actually reading the text of this monstrosity. After text-editing it, it is about 32 pages, single-spaced with 1" margins, in standard indented outline form. (The original ACA was about 200 pages in similar form, if I recall correctly).
It makes me very glad I'm on Medicare (for now, that is I remember those $1,200 ($5,000 deductible) payments for private insurance before I turned 65.
A pox upon the Republican house.
It makes me very glad I'm on Medicare (for now, that is I remember those $1,200 ($5,000 deductible) payments for private insurance before I turned 65.
A pox upon the Republican house.
31
Congressman Ryan, those older people you are trying to push out of the health care system have paid taxes, some of them since before you were born. Some of them served their country. Their longevity is a positive for the U.S. because countries where the life expectancy is low also have high illiteracy rates and dire poverty. Who are you to decide that they are not worth keeping alive and healthy?
44
As a long time aficionado of Ayn Rand (a proponent of a survival of the fittest; "it's al about me" philosophy , Speaker of the House Paul Ryan required the staffers and interns in his congressional office to read Rand and was effusive and public in his support of her ideas.
Paul Ryan is also a long-standing practicing christian (Catholic) which carries a stated philosophy of helping the poor, the sick. the disabled, the needy, etc. ( I know, I know; often ignored).
It must be quite a brain clash to deal with these two diametrically opposed philosophies. I have little doubt about who the ultimate winner will be and it probably will not be lower income, sick, disabled, needy folks. Where is the altruism, the empathy, the humanity in this whole pathetic Republican charade aimed at providing as little as possible in the way of health care for many, if not most, people? It begs the question: Who, really, is Paul Ryan and what actually is his philosophy?
Paul Ryan is also a long-standing practicing christian (Catholic) which carries a stated philosophy of helping the poor, the sick. the disabled, the needy, etc. ( I know, I know; often ignored).
It must be quite a brain clash to deal with these two diametrically opposed philosophies. I have little doubt about who the ultimate winner will be and it probably will not be lower income, sick, disabled, needy folks. Where is the altruism, the empathy, the humanity in this whole pathetic Republican charade aimed at providing as little as possible in the way of health care for many, if not most, people? It begs the question: Who, really, is Paul Ryan and what actually is his philosophy?
16
It is worth noting that Paul Ryan grew up supported by Federal Disability Benefits given to his father. He then went to university paid for by Federal grant money. The hypocrisy of this mediocre, untalented Congressman is breathtaking. He is shameless in his quest for donor money; and he will sacrifice the few remaining principles he might still have to stay in office. His connection to Ayn Rand is fascinating, because she died broke, dependent on Federal handouts and medical care. One can only hope that Ryan might be reduced to a similar, well deserved fate.
6
What is really scary is that when all of those people lose their health insurance, the republicans will blame Obamacare. They'll say, "Look at what we had to start with. This is just the process of rebuilding things after the Obamacare-caused problems." And conservatives will believe them.
7
Paul Ryan must have some great recipes for dishes of old people from The Ayn Rand Cookbook.
Lecter Stew and Cabbage---Malthusian Mocca Cobbler
Lecter Stew and Cabbage---Malthusian Mocca Cobbler
9
The GOP has completely maligned the word "freedom." Paul Ryan saves the day by offering the people the freedom to choose. Don't blame him that the choices aren't of value. Makes me sick to my stomach!
15
The Ryan Plan should include physician assisted suicide ( PAS)for the many many older people who will claim the "freedom" to NOT buy insurance--PAS will become a patriotic cost saving act rather than using hospitals and ERs like in the days before that terrible ACA---
The Ryan Plan: Freedom to get sick, get sicker and eventually die "with your rights intact", with no intrusion of the Government MANDATE; rather than an older age with the security and peace of mind that your passage will be humanely eased because people believed that we will ALL be there some day, and that a government mandate is simply a reminder of this
The Ryan Plan: Freedom to get sick, get sicker and eventually die "with your rights intact", with no intrusion of the Government MANDATE; rather than an older age with the security and peace of mind that your passage will be humanely eased because people believed that we will ALL be there some day, and that a government mandate is simply a reminder of this
11
Like the movie, Soylent Green?
Frankly, this is just all the more reason for me to keep smoking, and to succumb to the inevitable without intervention or complaint when the time comes. It'll be cheaper.
1
So more proof that Trump is our Liar In Chief!
"Everyone will get coverage! It will be so much, much better!"
Right! Better for Insurers, investors, the wealthy. Worse for the people to whom he made this promise to. Liar!
One additional benefit not talked about yet is that there will be no Death Panels...no waiting in line to end your life after you're bankrupt and living in constant pain and suffering. And if you're really lucky, and you live in Oregon or Colorado, you can actually legally end your life...assuming you can afford the doctor's bill.
What's next up for this Trump Reich, Soylent Green?
"Everyone will get coverage! It will be so much, much better!"
Right! Better for Insurers, investors, the wealthy. Worse for the people to whom he made this promise to. Liar!
One additional benefit not talked about yet is that there will be no Death Panels...no waiting in line to end your life after you're bankrupt and living in constant pain and suffering. And if you're really lucky, and you live in Oregon or Colorado, you can actually legally end your life...assuming you can afford the doctor's bill.
What's next up for this Trump Reich, Soylent Green?
12
We all knew that this selfish generation that produced Ryan would someday work to destroy the elderly, so they could keep more toys in their garage
10
I believe the average age of a US Senator is 60 years old. Ryan might be a gen-xer but congress is controlled by the baby boomers.
It's true: 'the government’s not going to force people to buy something that they don’t want to buy' Also true: the government’s not going to help people to buy something that they need and want but can't afford.
Before ACA, if you got sick, couldn't work and lost your job, you lost your health care. Under RyanCare, if you get sick, can't work and lose your job, you can't afford your health care. Big improvement!
Before ACA, if you got sick, couldn't work and lost your job, you lost your health care. Under RyanCare, if you get sick, can't work and lose your job, you can't afford your health care. Big improvement!
10
The Republican Party exists due to empathy deficit disorder. To them, money is more important than human lives, and power trumps humanity.
12
Governor Palin was right. There is a "Death Panel" under Obamacare. Its members are President Trump and Congressional Republicans:
"Let's take the money we've been spending to provide you with the health insurance necessary save your elderly, worthless, and poverty-stricken life and give it to well-deserving rich folks like us who can put the money to better use."
"You'll love our new system. You'll have complete choice and access. You won't have the insurance necessary to make any choices or give you any access to the health care needed to save your life. But, hey, freedom isn't free after all."
"Have a nice death. Uh, I mean, life."
"Let's take the money we've been spending to provide you with the health insurance necessary save your elderly, worthless, and poverty-stricken life and give it to well-deserving rich folks like us who can put the money to better use."
"You'll love our new system. You'll have complete choice and access. You won't have the insurance necessary to make any choices or give you any access to the health care needed to save your life. But, hey, freedom isn't free after all."
"Have a nice death. Uh, I mean, life."
12
So perfect.
This plan will be a nightmare for those who are currently on Medicaid or those with modest incomes who are not very young. People don't realize that a huge portion of seniors in nursing homes rely on Medicaid to allow them to remain there, where they can get 24 hour care. With the proposed block grants going to the states, a huge number of these folks will get cut off, meaning grandma is coming home for you to give 24 hour care. Also 60% of disabled children receive Medicaid to help with their care. With the block grant program, millions of these children will be dumped from receiving these benefits, causing their families extreme hardship. Pregnant women who receive Medicaid will also be cut off, meaning say goodbye to prenatal care. Even for those who just get their health insurance on the state exchanges, will be detrimentally impacted. If you are between the ages of 50 and 64, and make 25 or 30K a year, your subsidy will be dramatically cut and will often put these folks in a position where heathcare is beyond their reach. The proposed healthcare bill makes people sicker and will lead to many deaths. On the upside, multi-millionaires will get a HUGE tax break so they can buy even fancier cars and perhaps a third beach home. Where have American priorities gone?
16
The GOP is not getting enough credit for the their novel solution to reduce long term medicare spending, which hasn't received any press. By raising the cost of premiums and reducing the subsidies for low income near-elderly people, these folks will not be able to afford health insurance and will likely forego needed medical care until they are critically ill. This will lead to increased mortality and reduced numbers reaching medicare age. Even obviates the need for death panels. Brilliant!
8
Add to those under 65 those 65 and older. Medicare per the ACA is now supported by a surtax on the wealthy. Take that surtax away, and Medicare runs a deficit in 2019, greatly diminishing benefits to those who count on it the most: poor seniors.
10
Not to worry, Medicare is next on the GOP hit list. Clearly lying is not a problem for Trump.
9
Medicare is next, i am sure. Makes me sick to die, already. No need for health care.
1
Paul Ryan is only one part of the massive mathematical equation Americans purchased last November to dismantle over 250 years of progress. The other part of the equation is Donnie Trump. Ryan is in love with Ayn Rand’s theory that CEO’s and the one percenters must get rid of all the parasites like journalists, government employees, the poor and anyone else who stands in the way of their rule. Donnie is both the CEO and “one percenter.” So, the equation is something like this. 0+0= 0. Don't expect anything positive when the answer always comes up negative.
15
It is a fact, older people vote, younger people also, but not in great numbers as elders do.
Let us remind the GOP Congress, there is a mid term election in 2018 and some Senate seats will also be up for re-election.
This un-balance of a one party rule needs a healthy check and balance which is void at present.
Let us remind the GOP Congress, there is a mid term election in 2018 and some Senate seats will also be up for re-election.
This un-balance of a one party rule needs a healthy check and balance which is void at present.
24
I have no idea why anyone under 40 without an existing medical condition that requires ongoing medical support would purchase health insurance under the new program. Their cost, if they should need serious medical attention is to pay a 30% premium for a year. This means if they have no major medical need for 4 months, they win financially. Women need only wait until they are pregnant to purchase a policy.
But the Republicans teach that there are absolutely no personal morals. And this law drives that point home.
The insurance companies will likely find a far, far sicker set of patients than they have now, even after everyone over fifty who is not well-off is forced to drop their coverage.
Of course, now that there is no penalty for failure of a company to insure its employees, dropping medical coverage and letting everyone seek their own insurance (and offering a modest stipend, to make up the difference for the young and healthy) will save the companies lots of money, and not distress their (well-paid) management. This will be a competitive advantage because it will attract young healthy workers (who can pocket the stipend, or put in an HSA, or (foolishly) buy insurance), and force older and sicker employees to seek employers who still offer coverage.
We are now conducting test to see if most view this as an outrage or an opportunity.
But the Republicans teach that there are absolutely no personal morals. And this law drives that point home.
The insurance companies will likely find a far, far sicker set of patients than they have now, even after everyone over fifty who is not well-off is forced to drop their coverage.
Of course, now that there is no penalty for failure of a company to insure its employees, dropping medical coverage and letting everyone seek their own insurance (and offering a modest stipend, to make up the difference for the young and healthy) will save the companies lots of money, and not distress their (well-paid) management. This will be a competitive advantage because it will attract young healthy workers (who can pocket the stipend, or put in an HSA, or (foolishly) buy insurance), and force older and sicker employees to seek employers who still offer coverage.
We are now conducting test to see if most view this as an outrage or an opportunity.
5
We should have ended our system of health insurance tied to employment - a World War II relic - decades ago, and replaced it with a tax-supported system allowing people to obtain insurance that's right for them. But neither Democrats nor Republicans have the political will to do this, and that's unlikely to change.
3
Maybe those people under 40 have significant assets they don't want to lose when they get hit by a bus and rack up $100k in medical bills to save their life that they then can't pay without liquidating their assets.
Would you have the same attitude about auto insurance? homeowner's insurance? The point of insurance is that life is risky. What if auto insurance got so expensive many people couldn't afford it and just went on driving after all which of course we know they would do. Wouldn't it be government's job to intervene? Health care is even more vital than being able to drive. It isn't an option unless you're suicidal. The way the Republicans are going, suicide might look like a decent option vs suffering under their insanity.
You can need health care at any time in your life. The only people who can go without health insurance are the indigent without anything to lose. They can show up at the ER, not pay and stick us all with the bill. Unless hospitals start deciding to ignore that Hippocratic Oath thing and just let the poor die outside on the sidewalk. That at least would be an honest reflection of Republican values,
Would you have the same attitude about auto insurance? homeowner's insurance? The point of insurance is that life is risky. What if auto insurance got so expensive many people couldn't afford it and just went on driving after all which of course we know they would do. Wouldn't it be government's job to intervene? Health care is even more vital than being able to drive. It isn't an option unless you're suicidal. The way the Republicans are going, suicide might look like a decent option vs suffering under their insanity.
You can need health care at any time in your life. The only people who can go without health insurance are the indigent without anything to lose. They can show up at the ER, not pay and stick us all with the bill. Unless hospitals start deciding to ignore that Hippocratic Oath thing and just let the poor die outside on the sidewalk. That at least would be an honest reflection of Republican values,
1
It only makes sense that those who visit doctors and use medical services the most should pay more out of pocket expenses. Why should young healthy people foot the bill of those who are older and in poor health. Often older adults have more disposable income and can well afford to use it on their healthcare. Those who make less usually the young should pay less. That is perfect common sense.
1
Insurance works when everyone pays into the pool and most people don't need payouts. Think of auto insurance. Old or young or middle aged, those who get into accidents and receive insurance payouts are able to get such payouts because of those of us who drive years accident free. Of course auto insurance has risk and age-related assessments, and no one disputes that. The question is really whether everyone should be in the pool getting insurance (mandate) or not.
And Ryan knows that his analogy to Medicare penalty is incorrect. The Medicare penalty for one who does not take it when eligible is assessed for life -- not for one year. So there is a real incentive to start paying for Medicare even if one is healthy.
And Ryan knows that his analogy to Medicare penalty is incorrect. The Medicare penalty for one who does not take it when eligible is assessed for life -- not for one year. So there is a real incentive to start paying for Medicare even if one is healthy.
3
There is NO Common Sense in the US Health Care 'system'. Home and Auto insurance is also mandatory for everyone who drives and owns.
5
Well, dude, if your parents can't afford adequate health insurance you might just find yourself stuck with some big bills for their care if and when they need it. It would be better for all to be able to pay into an affordable health care plan than for you to have to pay huge medical bills for an elderly parent on your own. Or you can watch them die with no dignity for lack of care. If you have a conscience it could bother you for a good part of the rest of your life.
6
The only way I can make sense of this bill is according to the following conservative principles:
1) Government and markets must be kept separate (for liberals the equivalent would be separation of church and state).
2) Illness, injury, and other conditions requiring medical care are to be seen as retribution for sin. Therefore to provide aid of any kind is to let the sinner off the hook. For the government to do so would amount to officially condoning sin.
3) Freedom is an absolute. Someone recently quoted Barry Goldwater as having spoken against polio vaccinations, saying that it is wrong to infringe on anyone's freedom to contract polio.
So there we have purity, sanctity, and liberty as goals to be satisfied in the GOP bill. As for the cost of medical care and insurance, that's seen as a mere practical matter.
1) Government and markets must be kept separate (for liberals the equivalent would be separation of church and state).
2) Illness, injury, and other conditions requiring medical care are to be seen as retribution for sin. Therefore to provide aid of any kind is to let the sinner off the hook. For the government to do so would amount to officially condoning sin.
3) Freedom is an absolute. Someone recently quoted Barry Goldwater as having spoken against polio vaccinations, saying that it is wrong to infringe on anyone's freedom to contract polio.
So there we have purity, sanctity, and liberty as goals to be satisfied in the GOP bill. As for the cost of medical care and insurance, that's seen as a mere practical matter.
8
I'm a reasonably healthy, college-educated single woman in my early 50s who works for myself and makes a very comfortable living. I also help support a disabled sister who is on Medicaid. Under the GOP's health plan, I'm basically screwed. My premiums will go up, my deductible will go up, I'll get fewer benefits, and I won't get much help paying for the rise in cost because I earn over $75,000 a year. My sister will probably need more financial help, since Medicare funding will be scaled back, and it's not like the Texas GOP will allocate money to fill in the gaps. Meanwhile, food, utilities and other essentials continue to rise.
Mr. Ryan, I'd have a lot more respect for you if you'd tell me to drop dead to my face rather than legislate me out of existence.
Mr. Ryan, I'd have a lot more respect for you if you'd tell me to drop dead to my face rather than legislate me out of existence.
42
You indeed are in a precarious situation facing this GOP Ryancare plan. You are not alone, however. I hope this attempt to screw the neediest (disabled, elderly, poors) fails.
1
All this at a time when older people are likely to lose their jobs and are considered by many employers to be "too old, " so they will be unable to replace any health insurance they may have had at the old job. Remember "compassionate conservatives"? I guess the species has died out, like the passenger pigeon.
4
activist Grover Norquist famously declared, "I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub."That's an apt description for the GOP approach to Medicaid, too. Block granting Medicaid, the centerpiece of Trumpcare will do just that
3
With this Ryan-care, isn't it interesting that Republicans are being pro-choice and Democrats are being pro-life. Good bye planned parenthood, welcome planned death-panel.
7
Bring the pain, Republicans. We can't reason with Trump voters. But if Paul Ryan gets TrumpCare approved, then millions of Trump voters will suffer and many will die because they can't afford insurance. Many more will go bankrupt paying medical bills. This will anger the survivors, and, hopefully, make them vote Democratic in 2018 and 2020. And maybe fewer Democrats will sleep through the next election, since the pain will hit them too, and those who vote will understand that we can't afford to make "Statement Votes" for unelectable candidates like Jill Stein. This is war, fellow libs, and the 2018 midterms are a battle we must win.
16
Well said!
1
Good plan, unless the Republican monstrosity that they are passing off as health care reform fails to pass and then they start undermining Obamacare by attacking subsidies and anything that keeps it functioning and then blame the inevitable collapse and chaos on Obama, see we were right all along yadda yadda.
Many of those voters were simply too young and inexperienced to have understood what was at stake. It's a crying shame.
That's a great idea...get rid of the older (more likely to be sick) people first, then you lower the cost of healthcare to the Government while increasing the cost for those who wish to buy it...while giving the rich a tax break. Certainly works for the 1%. Nice job Ryan & Co.
10
The conservatives are devoted to not requiring people to buy something the people do not want. The liberals are devoted to feeling good about the situation even if people are forced to buy insurance that has little real protection.
The real answer is for a single payer health plan. For this to happen we need the two groups to talk to each other. This is impossible. What is the bottom line? (1) The congress lives in a perpetual hatred of the other side. (2) The people suffer. (3) Trump thinks he is God. It is a downward spiral. Someone has to wake up.
The real answer is for a single payer health plan. For this to happen we need the two groups to talk to each other. This is impossible. What is the bottom line? (1) The congress lives in a perpetual hatred of the other side. (2) The people suffer. (3) Trump thinks he is God. It is a downward spiral. Someone has to wake up.
10
Who cares about people? This is all about cutting taxes for the wealthy.
18
McDonnell is an out-and-out liar. The CBO did NOT agree that this monstrosity of a bill will increase access to care, unless your brain is so upside-down you think that losing your health insurance actually *increases* your healthcare options.
They're counting on their voters being just as stupid and ill-informed as they've always been I get the sense they're in for a very rude shock.
They're counting on their voters being just as stupid and ill-informed as they've always been I get the sense they're in for a very rude shock.
9
This health plan should, first of all, instead of the seniors, kick-off the Trump voters for being dumb enough to believe a single word the guy said. But if you seniors were trump voters, this is what you get apparently. Sorry for you.
19
I must give Republicans and other conservatives credit when credit is due.
Giving the wealthy new tax breaks and reducing government spending all while reducing the number of the old, poor and infirm is a truly original and brilliant idea with long-range benefits for all, or most all, Americans.
My hat's off to you...
Giving the wealthy new tax breaks and reducing government spending all while reducing the number of the old, poor and infirm is a truly original and brilliant idea with long-range benefits for all, or most all, Americans.
My hat's off to you...
2
So "freedom" means the freedom to buy an inferior product when I'm young and healthy and don't need it, and the freedom to not buy an inferior product I can't afford when I'm older and sicker and do need it?
Apparently Trump and the GOP misheard the famous quote as "Give me Liberty AND give me Death."
Apparently Trump and the GOP misheard the famous quote as "Give me Liberty AND give me Death."
4
What did anyone expect from a guy who makes fun and mocks the disabled in public during his campaign?
Trump-care shows that not only does Donald Trump not tell the truth or care about the elderly or people that voted for him in dire need of maintaining their health care under the ACA, but his idea of Trump-care is similar to standing at the top of an long staircase and giving an elderly pushing in a wheelchair a hard shove down the stairs.
What do you expect from a guy who pathological lies about everything from where President Obama was born or whether he wire tapped Trump Tower, Trump is not right in the head and it's clear he is in need of a medical checkup from the neck up!
Trump-care shows that not only does Donald Trump not tell the truth or care about the elderly or people that voted for him in dire need of maintaining their health care under the ACA, but his idea of Trump-care is similar to standing at the top of an long staircase and giving an elderly pushing in a wheelchair a hard shove down the stairs.
What do you expect from a guy who pathological lies about everything from where President Obama was born or whether he wire tapped Trump Tower, Trump is not right in the head and it's clear he is in need of a medical checkup from the neck up!
They are disgusting liars!
3
My husband is 54 and will be looking for insurance next year. Good Luck. He qualifies for a subsidy this year, which cuts his premium in half. Next year he won't be able to afford coverage. Thanks for the "Fantastic" plan Trumpites.
5
“We’re saying the government’s not going to force people to buy something that they don’t want to buy.” Ryan said on Fox News Monday afternoon.
Yes but when they go to the emergency room with no insurance and can't pay for care, those costs will be passed on to those of us who do have insurance.
Yes but when they go to the emergency room with no insurance and can't pay for care, those costs will be passed on to those of us who do have insurance.
2
Had the party in control of the White House and both houses of Congress presented its healthcare program as it has disclosed as opposed to the lavish promises made in the campaign, the incumbents would be substantially different.
As it is, voters may have to wait until the midterm elections to address the arrogance of the incumbents.
I suggest that one should not expect incredible outcomes when one gives enormous authority to one who took companies into bankruptcy six times and was noted for stiffing employees, banks, contractors and suppliers when he was in the business world.
His base touted how Mr. Trump could bring his business experience to government. That is exactly what he has done, bringing to Americans
BAIT AND SWITCH.
Section four of the 25th Amendment is something that Americans need to become familiar with to respond to this taking office under false pretenses.
As it is, voters may have to wait until the midterm elections to address the arrogance of the incumbents.
I suggest that one should not expect incredible outcomes when one gives enormous authority to one who took companies into bankruptcy six times and was noted for stiffing employees, banks, contractors and suppliers when he was in the business world.
His base touted how Mr. Trump could bring his business experience to government. That is exactly what he has done, bringing to Americans
BAIT AND SWITCH.
Section four of the 25th Amendment is something that Americans need to become familiar with to respond to this taking office under false pretenses.
2
Would at least the NY Times writers learn what phrase "reduce premiums by 10%' means? The GOP plan will not "reduce premiums by 10%." What the CBO concludes is that the GOP plan will reduce the rate of inflation in premiums by 10%. Plans that would cost 5% more in 2026 will cost 4% more. The GOP plans will not cost 90% of the equivalent ACA plan. The correct phrasing would be "the GOP plan reduces the rate of premium inflation by 10%".
3
I mean you have to laugh at the comical aspects of this. Analyses by various news organizations and Kaiser show that younger people in urban areas with a decent income will benefit the most from the GOP plan because they'll get tax credits (which likely don't now) and are living in areas with a healthy insurance market - unlike those older voters in rural areas with low to middling income and sparse insurance and medical provider competition who are royally....let's say not benefitting so much. I guess Democrats should say thanks Speaker Ryan but we really won't.
3
So.. Ryan's (il)logic is that by giving the insurance companies what they want - less risk and more profit ("hey, it's just business") it's more "fair" because Americans won't be forced to pay for something they don't want. Notwithstanding that the reason they don't want it is because Republicans like Ryan made sure to price them out of the market. This is not stupidity. It is unbridled cynicism and classism. And unabashed profiteering.
I used to wonder how people like Ryan and his ilk could get up in the morning and smile at their spouses and children, knowing full well they are sticking it to Americans less privileged.... that other families would literally go hungry or die. I came to understand it is because they are psychopaths, devoid of moral compass or empathy, though knowing that doesn't correct the problem. Many years ago, there was a solution for this sort of chicanery in France.
I used to wonder how people like Ryan and his ilk could get up in the morning and smile at their spouses and children, knowing full well they are sticking it to Americans less privileged.... that other families would literally go hungry or die. I came to understand it is because they are psychopaths, devoid of moral compass or empathy, though knowing that doesn't correct the problem. Many years ago, there was a solution for this sort of chicanery in France.
9
Trumpcare? Talk about oxymoronic. Fake President Trump doesn't care about anyone but himself. The Republicans in Congress don't care about anyone except the health care lobbyists who fill their campaign coffers. SAD!
5
Pushing out older people now, and later as well, you may rely. There is plenty of time to screw up benefits by the time young people get old enough to actually need health insurance.
1
Simple - kill off all the older people with stress of trying to pay premiums. Whoever survives this bludgeoning probably doesn't use doctors as much is thinking. So just cover young or healthy. Survival of the fittest and survival of the greediest.
4
The AHCA and the Muslim Ban have a big theme in common: pointless cruelty. We need to talk about American values.
11
I think we've already ascertained over the past ten-to-sixteen years what the American values are. 1.) I've got mine and you can't have it; 2.) Facts are evil; 3.) Anyone who doesn't look like me, think like me, worship like me, act like me or agree with me is evil; 4.) Science is evil; 5.) People from other countries are evil; 6.) All rich people are good and innocent until proven guilty, and all poor people are bad and must suffer for their sins; 7.) Intellectuals are evil; 8.) You can get away with anything as long as you are rich, white, male and/or powerful; 9.) Always blame the victim; 10.) If you can get away with it, it wasn't wrong to begin with; 11.) The Golden Rule is, those who have the gold, make the rules; and 12.) If anything bad happens to you, you probably deserved it.
Well, thanks for putting it so succinctly.
2
Older and poorer - aren't those people the key GOP voting block? Five million Trump voters to lose their Obamacare? I say push hard, GOP, to enact all the policies you hold dear in healthcare and everything else. That way, the voters can view the results and vote accordingly in 2018 and 2020. If they like your policies, you get another two or four years. If they don't....well, you reap what you sow.
9
No, not really. I know many younger people who voted Trump, and my 90 year old mom voted Hillary. Please, let's not divide Americans by age.
This is Paul Ryan's Ayn Rand Fantasy - it doesn't matter to him if several million Americans die along the way.
11
The problem with "choice" in healthcare is that the whole idea is specious. Everyone will die. Everyone will be injured or get sick at some point, unpredictably, in their lives. The only way to avoid the healthcare system is to die suddenly and irrevocably (e.g. sudden decapitation, getting run over by a freight train, but not drowning in a cold pond or getting buried in an avalanche - hypothermia might mean you can be revived). So, assuming you don't "luck out" and spontaneously explode, you'll be in front of a doctor at some point. Either (a) you pay "cash", (b) you have health insurance pay or (c) the hospital, Medicare, or the State pays (e.g. everyone else pays). If you've ever seen a hospital bill, you'll know (a) is out the window (OMG it's expensive, I had a "minor" operation and I could've bought a nice new car for that amount of money), so either you have (b) health insurance or (c) everyone else pays for you (either in higher bills to the hospital or taxes). I suppose the Republicans might argue for option (d) you die in the street. So, really, healthcare "choice" is a myth. IMHO, we should just go with a single-payer system, get rid of insurance companies, and be done with it. Easy-peasy.
9
Sure it is, except for 2 little problems: a) It's not politically possible, and b) we don't have a government that can be trusted to operate such a system. And neither of those facts is changing anytime soon.
So I'll stick with choice (no quotation marks).
So I'll stick with choice (no quotation marks).
The Republican Party will never allow single payer. They would prefer (d) you die in the street.
For a crowd that wears its Christianity so proudly and loudly on its sleeve, the Republicans sure have odd priorities. They are outraged by taxes on the wealthiest among us and have no problem denying healthcare to millions, primarily the poor and the elderly. And that, of course, is just the beginning of the list. There is no issue -- not clean air and water, not education, not even a balanced budget -- that outweighs their desire to give back to the wealthiest. I don't know which version of the Bible they are reading, but clearly not one I've ever run across.
96
I see a lot of confusion south of here which can easily be dispelled by a knowledge of history. In 1773 a whole lot of East India Company tea was dumped into Boston Harbour. East India Tea was untaxed as the board of directors of the East India Company told their hirelings at Westminster what to legislate.
It has taken 240 years to recover from the shock but after a hundred years of education The People have finally understood the error of their ways and understand that the descendants of the board of directors of the East India Company knew best. Government of the people was a terrible mistake. Only Wall Street knows best and The People should not be burdened with the critical job of governance.
The healthcare debate finally illustrates the inability of the people to govern. It is clear that the cheapest, most effective way to provide healthcare to all Americans is not the right way to go as it takes money from Wall Street where is is needed and can be used effectively and puts that money into the pockets of the people who will squander it on useless purchases like food and shelter.
It has taken 240 years to recover from the shock but after a hundred years of education The People have finally understood the error of their ways and understand that the descendants of the board of directors of the East India Company knew best. Government of the people was a terrible mistake. Only Wall Street knows best and The People should not be burdened with the critical job of governance.
The healthcare debate finally illustrates the inability of the people to govern. It is clear that the cheapest, most effective way to provide healthcare to all Americans is not the right way to go as it takes money from Wall Street where is is needed and can be used effectively and puts that money into the pockets of the people who will squander it on useless purchases like food and shelter.
38
"Paul Ryan said that insurance cannot work if healthy people have to pay more to subsidize the sick." [http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a53748/paul-ryan-insu...]
So, yes, if the high risk people are squeezed out, the low risk people left in should pay less because few of them need insurance.
Duh! But that's insurance for the healthy, not for those who need it the most.
So, yes, if the high risk people are squeezed out, the low risk people left in should pay less because few of them need insurance.
Duh! But that's insurance for the healthy, not for those who need it the most.
12
Millions of Americans between 55-65, have paid Medicare and Social Security premiums all their lives. But, they will not be able to afford the outrageously expensive health insurance premiums proposed by the Republican plan. Without affordable health insurance coverage, millions of older Americans will die before they receive a single dollar of Medicare or Social Security benefits they've worked hard to earn for so many years. But, perhaps the future value of unpaid Medicare and Social Security benefits resulting from millions of premature deaths is factored into the Republican's "savings" calculations...
36
"millions of older Americans will die before they receive a single dollar of Medicare or Social Security benefits they've worked hard to earn for so many years."
Sweet - I think that's the plan. I think the Republican Party has figured out how to institute "death panels"...without actually calling them..."death panels"....
This plan is a "twofer"...Repubs were looking for a way to save Social Security...
Sweet - I think that's the plan. I think the Republican Party has figured out how to institute "death panels"...without actually calling them..."death panels"....
This plan is a "twofer"...Repubs were looking for a way to save Social Security...
6
All people through their lifetimes are fetuses, infants, children, adolescents, young adults, middle aged adults, older adults, and terminal patients. The costs for treating a whole population of people through their lives can be calculated and the risks determined for their needed health care and how much, as a whole population. This is why single payer systems which provide universal care cost less and get good average results, because they can predict what will and will not be needed for such systems. The system we have allows that kind of predictability for those with health care benefits due to employment and enrollment in entitlement programs which is why they cost less to administer and have fewer risks for those who must fund and administer them in comparison for the market where customers participate voluntarily. The risks are not so easy to predict and the error can lead to insolvencies. The G.O.P. plan anticipates that the older people are the more health care they are likely to require and so they are charged more and young adults will likely cost less... But everyone who is a young adult is going to be an older person, so why not amortize the costs over the working lives of people, regardless of age and of health, so that the costs are more affordable and revenues more predictable? It's sensible but it means forcing everyone to participate.
15
We all know what the answer to universal and affordable healthcare is, because it is being done in many "civilized" western democracies. The reason it can't happen here is, well, follow the money.
16
A nation that denies medical care to senior citizens or children is not a nation. It is in reality a jungle where the fittest survive! It is fine to be the fiitest, but you better make sure that a drunk driver doesn't permanently cripple you or a debilitating disease doesn't come your way. The medical bills and the inability to work and thrive in the jungle will eat up that 401K and other assets rather quickly. The Republicans actually think they are the party of Jesus; however, the universal god of karma might have something to say about that.
18
Disabled people (sufficiently disabled to receive Soc Sec) receive Medicare regardless of age.
You're assuming Medicare will continue ... but there are already suggestions from the current administration that "entitlement programs" like Social Security and Medicare will be on the table for cuts and reductions.
The strangest thing about all this is it seems like they are creating the"death panels" the GOP went off about when the ACAwas being drafted, by creating a system with exorbitant premiums for older citizens is inhumane. We are trading health care for the poor by giving tax cuts for the rich. Our country is better than this.
17
Do what we sent you there for: Repeal and don't replace.
2
Repealing only does the same thing, it kicks many of the sick and elderly out of insurance and just back to where we were, paying a lot of money for poor healthcare.
The best way to save money, single payer for the poor and sick. It costs way less than what we had before the ACA and less than now.
The best way to save money, single payer for the poor and sick. It costs way less than what we had before the ACA and less than now.
Don't get your undies in a bunch. Read the act. They are not replacing. They are phasing out. Be patient. You will soon be seeing the increased death rates that will make your heart go pitty pat. Those death rates will be among the uninsured elderly with the added benefit of decreased social security costs.
1
Are you the 3% whose premiums went up with ACA or the 97% that benefited from a care without preexisting condition and non deniability by insurance? If you are not one of the 3%, then Fox News sold you a bridge.
If only the GOP would work half as hard at trying to solve the problems we face as they do trying to enrich their friends by punishing the elderly and poor.
44
I have an idea. Keep Obamacare! Those who don't want the mandate can sign a "freedom from healthcare" form. When they show up in the emergency room, they can be denied care. The rest of us can continue with the ACA ("Obamacare"). And make the penalty higher to ensure that the young sign up. Done.
35
So let me get this straight. The republicans want to enact a bill that could, most likely will, literally endanger the lives and/or kill many people, of which a disproportionate percentage voted Republican and hate Obamacare? I foolishly thought politicians were supposed to serve their constituents, not feed them poison.
17
Hello Washington D.C. How do Republicans sleep at night? Offering big tax cuts for the ultra rich at the expense of the 50-64 year olds. People LOSE their jobs at this vulnerable age due to layoffs, age discrimination, health issues and work burnout. I am sad we can't take care of each other.
36
Is health care a basic right or a luxury? The rest of the world has already made that decision: it is a basic right.
Our maternal death rate ranks near the bottom of wealthy countries and was one of the few countries showing an increase last year. Our infant mortality rates are the same.
The GOP says it wants to give us choices, that we have the best medical care in the world. We do--but only if you can pay for it. Does anyone REALLY choose to forgo medical care when their wives, their mothers, their children are dying? But these statistics are due to inadequate care.
The US pays more than double what the rest of the world pays. We pay double, triple and more for our medicines. And now the GOP is allowing us the freedom to keep doing so.
But don't worry--they don't understand what it is to worry about health coverage--even when they are no longer in office.
Our maternal death rate ranks near the bottom of wealthy countries and was one of the few countries showing an increase last year. Our infant mortality rates are the same.
The GOP says it wants to give us choices, that we have the best medical care in the world. We do--but only if you can pay for it. Does anyone REALLY choose to forgo medical care when their wives, their mothers, their children are dying? But these statistics are due to inadequate care.
The US pays more than double what the rest of the world pays. We pay double, triple and more for our medicines. And now the GOP is allowing us the freedom to keep doing so.
But don't worry--they don't understand what it is to worry about health coverage--even when they are no longer in office.
15
Funny howost off loading everyone over 65 on to Medicaid was not enough to satisfy their greed.
Do not allow employers to offer health care make everyone buy at full cost.
Why should employers have anything at all to do with your heath care?
Only this or Universal can fix this nothing else.
Do not allow employers to offer health care make everyone buy at full cost.
Why should employers have anything at all to do with your heath care?
Only this or Universal can fix this nothing else.
8
This is Ryancare, produced by a so-called Christian who swoons over Ayn Rand.
17
I'd call it Ryan-Price care. Tom Price surely had a big hand in it and, like Ryan, he could barely contain his glee when announcing it.
1
for republican voters, it IS magic. it takes doesn't take much: a skeezy con-man, a few nods to "christian" values, a couple of boogey men, and they'll believe anything that fits their skewed little view of the world.
9
So, in exchange for getting rid of the "death panels" so vividly described by Sarah Palin and the Republicans in their opposition to Obamacare, they are now giving us "death cohorts" by way of generational bias and discrimination. I wonder if "geriatricide" is a word or not.
17
I was always my understanding that pre-ACA, the insurance actuarial tables had an older person costing 5 times that of a younger person and the ACA threw out the tables and legislated older people at no more that 3 times a younger person. That is why less younger (and healthier) people joined the ACA. The GOP plan only restates the actuarial correct differentials. So instead to the headline that older people are being penalized and younger ones being rewarded, the truth is that true cost of insuring younger vs older people is only being restored to the correct differential. The ACA penalizes younger people and rewards older people.
2
Single payer is the answer.
3
That is how insurance works, the healthy pays for the sick. Not enough healthy people and insurance can't afford to cover people w/o high rates.
It is the older people who need health care the most and those younger people will need health care as they age. So they will wind up just as screwed as the older people now will be screwed.
Health care was bad before the ACA, many people died unnecessarily, so now we go back to that where the sick have no option but die faster.
Thanks for wanting that. You are a real sweetheart.
It is the older people who need health care the most and those younger people will need health care as they age. So they will wind up just as screwed as the older people now will be screwed.
Health care was bad before the ACA, many people died unnecessarily, so now we go back to that where the sick have no option but die faster.
Thanks for wanting that. You are a real sweetheart.
Just to let you know: you will be old too! I would like to see what you think in 10, 20 years when your income diminishes and have to paid higher premiums.
1
I feel like we're headed for a live version of Logan's Run, with Republicans being the cabal.
7
The republican plan seems to be to amp up the stress in the lives of older Americans. Their "cure" is to keep people away from doctors and hospitals and stress them to death.
The stress part is working on me now that I will likely lose something here.
The stress part is working on me now that I will likely lose something here.
5
I belive the CBO analysis. I mean Republicans expect me to take their word (politicians) over that of a historically non-partisan entity which has as its head, a conservative economist that Secretary of Health and Human Services Price helped get appointed.
I also believe that Ryan wants to cut expenditures on healthcare and doesn't care about the human cost of making healthcare inaccessible to millions. That is completely consistent with Republican thinking of the past 20 years.
What I do not get is how Ryan expects this plan to work out for the GOP politically.
Who votes Republican? Old people.
What do old people focus on?
Their health and their medical care and the fact that they have fixed incomes and cannot absorb large increases.
While a significant number of these people can be convinced by the usual disinformation and propaganda i.e. it is Obama's fault. A large enough number of these people are going to realize they have been cheated and have been lied to.
While Obamacare never had death panels, you could argue that the GOP plan just dispenses with the death panel - you don't even get to argue your case - they just leave you to stand on your own two very FREE FEET. Freedom!!!! But no death panels. No nothing.
Trump Care = No care = GOP saying, "Who Cares?"
I also believe that Ryan wants to cut expenditures on healthcare and doesn't care about the human cost of making healthcare inaccessible to millions. That is completely consistent with Republican thinking of the past 20 years.
What I do not get is how Ryan expects this plan to work out for the GOP politically.
Who votes Republican? Old people.
What do old people focus on?
Their health and their medical care and the fact that they have fixed incomes and cannot absorb large increases.
While a significant number of these people can be convinced by the usual disinformation and propaganda i.e. it is Obama's fault. A large enough number of these people are going to realize they have been cheated and have been lied to.
While Obamacare never had death panels, you could argue that the GOP plan just dispenses with the death panel - you don't even get to argue your case - they just leave you to stand on your own two very FREE FEET. Freedom!!!! But no death panels. No nothing.
Trump Care = No care = GOP saying, "Who Cares?"
8
Really - how do these people sleep at night?
5
How stupid can they be? Guess who turns out for mid-term elections? And the fall-out for those voters rears its ugly head when? 2018? Hmmm.... The only thing that is going to need good health care is this bill, but it won't help. It's DOA.
4
Paul Ryan inadvertently admitted (see NYT editorial today) on Fox News the other day, that the real objective of the health care bill was to eliminate the very small surtax on medicare and medicad expansion that wealthy investors where paying to help cover Obama care. This giveaway to the very rich (almost 1 trillion $$$) is a scandal and the democrats need to emphasize that this plan comes at the expense of middle and working class people, many who may have voted for Trump.
6
Don't forget...Ryan wants to dismantle Medicare, too, via his voucher plan. He has said so.
Social Security, of course, will be next to go.
Social Security, of course, will be next to go.
6
Gee, it sounds like the GOP will be the political party instituting death panels. Someone please let Ms. Palin know about this asap.
The ultimate death panel: the Republicans and the Trump administration. We will all get sicker as a result from the dirty air and poisoned water as environmental protections and public health regulations are erased, women will be more likely to die due to reduction in services, and when we get old we won't be able to afford to go to the doctor anymore.
7
We should invite all Congressional Republicans to a town hall meeting on the same date at Madison Square Garden.
7
" The C.B.O. estimates that the price an average 64-year-old earning $26,500 would need to pay after using a subsidy would increase from $1,700 under Obamacare to $14,600 under the Republican plan."
Give some thought to what that will mean for people as they move toward retirement. We better stop this plan!
Give some thought to what that will mean for people as they move toward retirement. We better stop this plan!
5
Fine, the GOP plan creates a simple plan. younger Americans won't buy insurance as they think they do not need it. The oldest Americans won't buy insurance, because they can't afford it. Those, on Medicaid will also drop out as they cannot afford insurance. Those, who have a lapse in coverage, with pre-existing conditions, will drop out, because they can't afford high risk pool insurance. Thus, leaving those with children left to pay for insurance, if they do not get it through their employer.
So, if so called "Trumpcare" passes, the CBO estimate may be too low,, as who will lose health insurance coverage. This could have an affect on employer provided insurance , as well. Especially, if the GOP gets its way and starts taxing employer provider insurance.
"Trumpcare", not "Obamacare" could decimate 1/6 of the US economy and drive health insurers out of the market place or out of business. It could also have a negative affect on the so called Medical Industrial Complex. And, finally the GOP can get their great wish, to bring down Medicare.
What we had, before Obamacare, was unsustainable and bad. What we have with Obamacare is some what better, but not by much. And with Trumpcare it has the potential to wreck the entire health care system, because could bankrupt Americans and insurance companies alike. And, put strains on any form of medical care. That is pay cash; or no treatment.
Only the wealthy will be able to afford health care, with their nice huge tax cuts.
So, if so called "Trumpcare" passes, the CBO estimate may be too low,, as who will lose health insurance coverage. This could have an affect on employer provided insurance , as well. Especially, if the GOP gets its way and starts taxing employer provider insurance.
"Trumpcare", not "Obamacare" could decimate 1/6 of the US economy and drive health insurers out of the market place or out of business. It could also have a negative affect on the so called Medical Industrial Complex. And, finally the GOP can get their great wish, to bring down Medicare.
What we had, before Obamacare, was unsustainable and bad. What we have with Obamacare is some what better, but not by much. And with Trumpcare it has the potential to wreck the entire health care system, because could bankrupt Americans and insurance companies alike. And, put strains on any form of medical care. That is pay cash; or no treatment.
Only the wealthy will be able to afford health care, with their nice huge tax cuts.
10
It's interesting how the Republicans hate the insurance mandate, yet it was originally their idea. It arose in 1989 from the conservative Heritage Foundation and was proposed it several times in the 1990's in their counter bills to Clinton's health plans. But that seems to be Republican logic. Come up with a good idea, but if the Democrats agree, disavow it.
12
The wisest way to get out of the health care costs problem without giving into the universal care with a single payer system would be to legalize euthanasia for those whose care will require great amounts of social support, indefinitely. If people cannot pay for a lot of medical care and they are willing to sacrifice for others, allow them to be put down like broken down horses or stray animals, voluntarily. When people become too old and demented to think rationally, let those who must support them have the option of putting them to sleep. If you are going to have a society that operates according to the fang and claw ethics behind these Republican proposals, be consistent.
8
But the Republicans will never allow a dignified and painless euthanasia for their victims. They will insist that life be prolonged beyond all reason through medicalized torture.
Because that's the sort of chaps they are.
Because that's the sort of chaps they are.
5
Very Swiftian, a very good comment.
You've been reading Swift's "A Modest Proposal", haven't you?
So Trumpcare will make the average premium rise 10-20 % next year and in 10 years it will be 10% lower--what a deal! Of course, by then our parents will be living with us as they can't afford health insurance at all. So much for starting your own family: women's health care isn't a big priority.
And that 10%-20% increased premium next year? It no longer includes a lot of care--that comes out of our pockets.
And that 10%-20% increased premium next year? It no longer includes a lot of care--that comes out of our pockets.
5
Plus higher deductibles and life max and every boogie man the Insurance companies can think of.
1
Just answer the questions, Republicans: Will I be able to afford a plan with no more than a $1000 deductible that covers diagnosis, treatment and medicine for any disease or injury or birth defect or mental illness or addiction I or my family might suffer? That's what I expect insurance to do. Anything less is not worth buying at any price. And by "afford" I mean I can still pay the rent or mortgage, the car loan, eat, buy gas, and keep the utilities on. Maybe even save a little for retirement or that rainy day. If you can't answer me that, leave Obamacare alone.
8
Healthcare should not be viewed as a mere commodity. That is why it is a "problem," and that is why it will remain unfair if not dangerous because people who cannot afford a simple Dr visit instead let bacteriological and viral issues fester. In the end, our greed and desire to have More Than others will kill us all.
15
I'd definitely like to see Paul Ryan pay for his own health insurance. I wonder if he would change his tune about "accessible" versus "affordable".
17
Don't forget he makes more than most Americans and has a rich wife. Maybe if he were still living on the Social Security he received after his father died he would have more empathy for the rest of us.
3
What ever plan they force on us they have to use all Politicians only get Trump care and cant buy anything else as long as they hold office.
State local and federal including Trump.
State local and federal including Trump.
So for the sake of $14,042 per person over the next decade, the GOP is good with kicking 24,000,000 people off healthcare. That is truly despicable.
22
No one has any right to be surprised. The GOP are the party of the wealthy and privileged and always have been.
14
Many of the jobs created in this country over the last 8 years have been in healthcare. This bill will probably kill these too, in favor of more dangerous jobs like in coal mines and manufacturing. With the EPA being gutted our environment will be less healthy in general. Thus the need for healthcare will be greater! The OMB i'm sure did not factor these into their calculations!
7
All this applies just to the disaster of medical care for persons under 65. The cuts in Medicaid would send older persons to thoroughly terrible care, and eliminate the possibility that aides will get a living wage.
7
Too bad, so sad.
Younger people are raising children and paying for their own college loans as well as for their children's college expenses.
Mid 60s have had decades of excellent jobs, ample opportunity and cheap university costs.
Older people get Medicare.
If Obamacare hadn't knifed so many in the back this wouldn't have happened.
Younger people are raising children and paying for their own college loans as well as for their children's college expenses.
Mid 60s have had decades of excellent jobs, ample opportunity and cheap university costs.
Older people get Medicare.
If Obamacare hadn't knifed so many in the back this wouldn't have happened.
2
"Mid 60s have had decades of excellent jobs, ample opportunity and cheap university costs."
That's a mighty big bucket you've constructed for just a subset of mid 60 year olds.
Agree, though, about the young often being in an awful financial situation, especially if their parents don't fit into that big bucket you built.
That's a mighty big bucket you've constructed for just a subset of mid 60 year olds.
Agree, though, about the young often being in an awful financial situation, especially if their parents don't fit into that big bucket you built.
1
You think this is bad for elderly but good for struggling young people? Something this article didn't mention that I'm guessing you aren't aware of: There's a 30% surcharge on people who've gone without health insurance for more than 63 days (page 12 under "continuous coverage provisions")
Do you know who goes without health insurance frequently? It's the young people beset by debt and struggling to raise a family, who are healthy enough to get away with it until a problem arises. In other words, both elderly AND young, poor people are getting the short end of the stick. Furthermore, this scenario is even more likely because the surcharge will be enacted in 2018 and the premiums are going to be 15-20% HIGHER for everyone until 2020 (page 21, paragraph 3).
Paul Ryan's plan literally helps most the people who need it least. Check page 16, paragraphs 3-4. I beg you as a citizen of the USA to read that section and inform yourself more on the matter. What is the logic in that section for benefiting the common American?
Do you know who goes without health insurance frequently? It's the young people beset by debt and struggling to raise a family, who are healthy enough to get away with it until a problem arises. In other words, both elderly AND young, poor people are getting the short end of the stick. Furthermore, this scenario is even more likely because the surcharge will be enacted in 2018 and the premiums are going to be 15-20% HIGHER for everyone until 2020 (page 21, paragraph 3).
Paul Ryan's plan literally helps most the people who need it least. Check page 16, paragraphs 3-4. I beg you as a citizen of the USA to read that section and inform yourself more on the matter. What is the logic in that section for benefiting the common American?
There is no reason for any leader of the G.O.P. nor anyone who will benefit from any tax cuts from raising the costs of health care on those most likely to need them and slashing subsidies to assure that the health care is affordable. They only win when they cut taxes for the people who they represent. But does this political victory actually make their constituents better off?
How is wealth created in our world? By making and selling products and services to massive numbers of consumers. Growth depends upon those consumers always buying more and more, and to do that they must acquire more and more wealth. Those losers and takers according to Ryan et al are the consumers. Impoverish them and the market does not grow very fast and neither does the economy and neither do opportunities for investors to make more money. The Republicans are worried about the wealthy keeping more of their money by relieving them of taxes but removing social support systems to assure that nobody is destitute and all have healthy and safe lives will limit the capacity of consumers to buy more products and services because the families and friends of those who are desperate will lose their ability to prosper and to improve themselves. The whole society will become less prosperous and less able to support economic growth. The wealthy will pay less in taxes but over time, they just will not be able to earn as much with their money.
How is wealth created in our world? By making and selling products and services to massive numbers of consumers. Growth depends upon those consumers always buying more and more, and to do that they must acquire more and more wealth. Those losers and takers according to Ryan et al are the consumers. Impoverish them and the market does not grow very fast and neither does the economy and neither do opportunities for investors to make more money. The Republicans are worried about the wealthy keeping more of their money by relieving them of taxes but removing social support systems to assure that nobody is destitute and all have healthy and safe lives will limit the capacity of consumers to buy more products and services because the families and friends of those who are desperate will lose their ability to prosper and to improve themselves. The whole society will become less prosperous and less able to support economic growth. The wealthy will pay less in taxes but over time, they just will not be able to earn as much with their money.
1
"Pushing older households out" is essentially the "high risk pools" approach.
3
Government-run health insurance is so much easier to figure out.
You don't do anything. You just have it. And if you feel the need to go to the doctor, you just make an appointment. I never touch my wallet.
And yes, ultimately I do pay for it out of tax dollars. But I suspect I'm further ahead by belonging to a 38 million person insurance group than trying to get coverage on my own.
Lots'a luck people.
Next time spend a bit of time researching what you are voting for.
You don't do anything. You just have it. And if you feel the need to go to the doctor, you just make an appointment. I never touch my wallet.
And yes, ultimately I do pay for it out of tax dollars. But I suspect I'm further ahead by belonging to a 38 million person insurance group than trying to get coverage on my own.
Lots'a luck people.
Next time spend a bit of time researching what you are voting for.
20
"Less is better" is a very hard to sell, even for people who believed trump's lies.
11
How much is going in the pockets of our congressmen and women?? If this is such a good plan then all of the congressmen should also have the same plan as everyone. How have we elected year after year the same dishonest people? Maybe these next few years will bring about radical displacement of all those currently elected! We will hope that the majority of people will begin to realize who they have put in charge of their lives.
4
Please take care of your voters! I think the current plan can work IF you allow 50yo and up to be on Medicare! We are the ones likely to get laid off and not be able to find another full time job w benefits. We can't afford huge premiums and deductibles so let us access Medicare. Keep the new health plan for the "healthy" as Paul Ryan prefers.
1
Who is going to pay the higher Medicare taxes to provide care for the 50-64 group?
Welcome to Trump-care......it will cover the wealthy, but leave the elderly and needy out in the cold.
7
I am rewarding every commenter who uses the word Trumpcare!
Kick the old folks to the curb: more Family Values, Republican style.
15
Watching how the political dynamics play out in this ridiculous republican killing field plan is abominable. I'm not on ACA but I will be affected by this downstream. The goal of the republicans and Putin via Bannon/Trump is to kill off the surplus population of sick, disabled, and elderly. But the republicans look at how much money it's going to save the government for killing us off! We will suffer while the rich remain hedonistically holding billions of dollars (stashed someplace - Bank of Cypress seems logical - ask Trump or Wilbur Ross).
We are a vanishing democratic-republic. If we go the way of Russia (and it's all in place and moving along well), we have oligarchs in the cabinet doing hidden deals (until they're caught) and a kleptocracy in place, and "loyalists" in place to support this Russian-hacked and stacked election.
Our focus needs to be getting the Russians and KKK out of the white house and that begins at the top.
We are a vanishing democratic-republic. If we go the way of Russia (and it's all in place and moving along well), we have oligarchs in the cabinet doing hidden deals (until they're caught) and a kleptocracy in place, and "loyalists" in place to support this Russian-hacked and stacked election.
Our focus needs to be getting the Russians and KKK out of the white house and that begins at the top.
14
The solution is a lot simpler than what is being done for decades. The number of doctors has not increased in two decades while the population has grown. AMA lobby ensures that number of doctors stay low thus creating an artificial shortage. This means our specialists make $300k to $800k while doctors in other western countries doing the exact same thing makes 1/4 of that. As a result the entire healthcare industry in US is geared to minimize care.
Let's increase number of doctors, make regular care cash only and insurance kicks in for large expenses only. As for arguments about years of study, debt etc, no other profession gets any guarantee about earnings prospects irrespective of their debt or years of study. Time to apply free market on supply of doctors.
Let's increase number of doctors, make regular care cash only and insurance kicks in for large expenses only. As for arguments about years of study, debt etc, no other profession gets any guarantee about earnings prospects irrespective of their debt or years of study. Time to apply free market on supply of doctors.
3
Yes, but, in other western countries, doctors' cost of education is covered (as is that of their children), among other cost cutting advantages. So we'll need more than just more doctors. It's a fairly broad cultural shift required to support a system like that of other western countries. Kind of like what Bernie was talking about (I didn't vote for him, btw, but maybe I should have!).
I agree with Ryancare. If we arent going to do single payer, then Obamacare needs to be replaced with something else that works.
Making the middle class pay for their own premiums as well as the premiums for the poor is not right. Requiring that young healthy people buy plans that cover a lot of things is not necessary. Requiring that young healthy people pay for the heath care of older people isnt right. Young people like me should be allowed to purchase a catastrophic plan that only covers accidents. I pay $400 a month in premiums for a plan that has coverage for things I dont need, but then doesnt cover suboxone, the one medicine I do take.
Obamacare is a failure, regardless of what any liberal says. $400 a month for insurance that doesnt cover the most effective anti-opiate abuse medication in the world, that is a failure.
Making the middle class pay for their own premiums as well as the premiums for the poor is not right. Requiring that young healthy people buy plans that cover a lot of things is not necessary. Requiring that young healthy people pay for the heath care of older people isnt right. Young people like me should be allowed to purchase a catastrophic plan that only covers accidents. I pay $400 a month in premiums for a plan that has coverage for things I dont need, but then doesnt cover suboxone, the one medicine I do take.
Obamacare is a failure, regardless of what any liberal says. $400 a month for insurance that doesnt cover the most effective anti-opiate abuse medication in the world, that is a failure.
3
You just don't get it-- I have paid all my life and I am extremely healthy and rarely if ever need a doctor. Now because of my age I will have to pay astronomical fees for services I do not need. What you do not understand is the system previously was set up to protect you as you aged-- now the failsafe is gone and the insurance companies can increase almost unbounded. Additionally the uninsured will be force to turn to hospitals who are by law required to treat regardless of ability to pay. This in effect will shutdown smaller hospitals in more remote areas-- hopefully you can grasp now the colossal mess these people are making...
2
It's painfully obvious from your comment that you have no idea how insurance works. Your suggestion of only paying for what you think you need at the moment is what drives up premiums and reduces payouts. Insurance is a based on shared risk. Narrowing that pool down to a few who choose what coverage they want a la carte drives up everyone's costs, including your own.
2
I hope you don't come down with pneumonia. I also hope you don't take advantage of the preventive care provisions of Obamacare.
I also hope you don't have parents or grandparents who may suffer under this plan. You'll be paying for them.
I also hope you don't have parents or grandparents who may suffer under this plan. You'll be paying for them.
1
The label "Conservative" for these radicals seems a obvious misnomer. They want to disassemble our society and culture with no replacement aside from a completely unfettered free market. I have heard that Paul Ryan is an Ayn Rand acolyte he would most likely describe himself as an Objectivist a term the 1% could swallow but I am part of the 99%. From my perspective I see a Anarcho-capitalist.
Wiki describes as -
Anarcho-capitalism is a political philosophy that advocates the elimination of the state in favor of individual sovereignty, private property, and free markets. Anarcho-capitalists believe that, in the absence of statute (law by decree or legislation), society would improve itself through the discipline of the free market (or what its proponents describe as a "voluntary society").
Thoughts?
Wiki describes as -
Anarcho-capitalism is a political philosophy that advocates the elimination of the state in favor of individual sovereignty, private property, and free markets. Anarcho-capitalists believe that, in the absence of statute (law by decree or legislation), society would improve itself through the discipline of the free market (or what its proponents describe as a "voluntary society").
Thoughts?
2
We are facing a cruel, uncaring and corrupt administration.
More wealth for the wealthy. Less for everyone else. Greed Over Principle.
We must evict them before they can do irreparable damage.
More wealth for the wealthy. Less for everyone else. Greed Over Principle.
We must evict them before they can do irreparable damage.
34
There is nothing "conservative" about Republicans who would vote for this sort of extremism.
5
None of this matters if we can't vote these bums out in 2018. Based on recent events, even with what essentially amounts to a healthcare "plan" masquerading as a covert eugenics program, I don't think getting rid of these Republicans is certain. Their base seem to hate democrats more than they love life.
35
Let's see how they feel after these programs are enacted and start impacting them. We need to focus on taking down Breitbart.
4
Eugenics improves the breed, ostensibly.
What we have here is Ryanetics, which just thins the herd indiscriminately.
What we have here is Ryanetics, which just thins the herd indiscriminately.
3
Rather than having their own healthcare and retirement so very lavishly funded by us, members of Congress should be forced to live with the medical coverage they force on us while working (and later by Medicare), and to have their pensions tied to Social Security.
That's the only way they will genuinely try to have a good, fair system, and not work so hard to line the pockets of Big Pharma and Big Insurance, some of their biggest campaign donors.
Why do they not talk about actually negotiating lower drug prices for Medicare, for instance? Well...because their big donors in the Big Pharma industry don't want them to negotiate.
That's the only way they will genuinely try to have a good, fair system, and not work so hard to line the pockets of Big Pharma and Big Insurance, some of their biggest campaign donors.
Why do they not talk about actually negotiating lower drug prices for Medicare, for instance? Well...because their big donors in the Big Pharma industry don't want them to negotiate.
3
I agree. I also have a better budget saving program. Just kill all the elderly, the sick, the poor... and than you can save hundred times more.
11
When he signed the Medicare and Medicaid bill LBJ said: " No longer will older Americans be denied the healing miracle of modern medicine. No longer will illness crush and destroy the savings that they have so carefully put away over a lifetime so that they might enjoy dignity in their later years. No longer will young families see their own incomes, and their own hopes, eaten away simply because they are carrying out their deep moral obligations to their parents...And no longer will this Nation refuse the hand of justice to those who have given a lifetime of service and wisdom and labor to the progress of this progressive nation".
Somewhere at the LBJ ranch in Texas, Lyndon Baines Johnson is rolling over in his grave.
Somewhere at the LBJ ranch in Texas, Lyndon Baines Johnson is rolling over in his grave.
20
So much for that "deep moral obligation" to parents. It never really existed anyway, even back in LBJ's day, for many people.
Bill, my 86 yr old Mom lives with us. I think multi-generational families are common, however, it's not because it's a moral obligation. In many cases it's still financial.......and will be more so once the choices are between health care and food, or health care and rent/mortgage. Many older Americans are not well off, did not have pensions or 401K's.
We made this choice willingly for her comfort and it's just easier to have her around than worrying about what is happening if she's not. Everyone can't do that, but we can.
We made this choice willingly for her comfort and it's just easier to have her around than worrying about what is happening if she's not. Everyone can't do that, but we can.
Immoral.
12
To paraphrase Ed Koch: The old people have spoken let the old people suffer
4
It may be necessary for the health care system to crash and burn before people are willing to accept a rational replacement, which in my view is single payer. As awful as the present system is, apparently it is not yet bad enough. As long as the majority obtain acceptable care through the employer-paid insurance or medicare, they will be leery of change, especially if it costs them money or freedom of choice. Consequently, the republican plan, venal as it is, could actually be a step towards the ultimate goal. It is sad how many have to suffer in order for change to occur.
7
Too easy to say if you are not, yourself, one of those who will suffer on the road to your fantasy revolutionary paradise.
2
Well isn't that nice that the GOP is going after the very people who voted for them. What sweet revenge they take on their base.
11
I have to wonder if the base even cares. The few posts I've seen from the dtfan base is they don't care about Russia (which means Breibart has them brainwashed). I'd still welcome a dtfan who got well and realized Benedict Trump has turned against them and said it - he doesn't need them anymore (except for attention). We clearly need the Russian connections to come to light and soon, so we can dump this regime and millions around the world would be very happy to see that happen. dt would even see millions of us in NJ happily dancing around when his world comes crashing down on them.
2
While other cultures around the world revere their elders, the GOP, with Trumpcare, wants to push aside the generation most in need of affordable healthcare, AND provide tax aid to the rich. Mr Ryan, please explain how this makes our country better.
16
Excuse me, BBBear, but isn't Trump one of our elders? Start revering...
There are only two ways to provide healthcare - 1) universal payer or 2) insurance (private and/or public). We have the latter and the ONLY way to make the latter work is to mandate that everyone sign on. The Republicans willfully ignore this concept, in fact, Ryan doesn't seem to understand how insurance actually works. Until we get a single payer system, the ACA is the best we have. Anything that doesn't require everyone to buy a policy won't work. Car insurance is affordable because everyone is required to have it...same with health insurance.
17
The government can levy taxes as needed to support an insurance system, but has no business mandating that anyone purchase a private product or service. A tax-supported system will work, but won't happen for political reasons, not economic ones.
As for car insurance, if you choose not to drive or own a car you are not required to have it. And its affordability varies widely based on location and other factors.
As for car insurance, if you choose not to drive or own a car you are not required to have it. And its affordability varies widely based on location and other factors.
1
The right would reply "well, yes, but you're not required to buy a car". So I guess that means that by analogy we're not required to have a body either. Suddenly it all makes sense. lol
2
If you choose not to live then you don't need to buy insurance.
2
Ryan's upping rates for older Americans has nothing to do with lowering premiums. It has everything to do with killing older Americans who do not have millions of dollars. He hates us. After arranging the deaths of older Americans under 65 he plans on killing Medicare & SS. He wants us dead & as fast as possible. Not because we cost to much. Considering the millenniums of experience we have, we cost little. For some reason (personal I believe) he NEEDS to kill as many of us as fast as he can. He is, mentally, a MURDERER. Why? Could it be because we didn't have the decency of dying when his father did? Because whatever killed his father, didn't kill us? Why did his father die? An accident? A communicable disease? Or maybe that widespread killer of fathers, alcoholism? He seems to also be out to get rid of rehab for those who have become addicted to some substance also. He needs massive mental care. He needs a quiet place to get his sanity back. He needs to quit the House & go into seclusion until such time as he can walk into a room & NOT SMIRK. It shows his mental sickness. It shows he should not have any power, anywhere, at any time. Since he will not quit out of decency (he has any?), he will be one of the main targets when the Citizens' Army marches on DC. We must rid this country of these power hungry, murderers. Every person who dies because of his sickness (sick sick man, so sad), should be avenged by trying & hanging someone who worked on the DEATH BILL. Ryan first.
8
This "bill" is a treasonous fraud. Everyone knows it. It will take 50,000,000 angry citizens marching on the US Capitol to change anything. The damage Paul Ryan and Twitler have done to the USA is the worst crime in our history. Demand a special prosecutor to indict Trump for treason--before, during and after the election--colluding with Russia and trying to destroy the lives of Americans without million$.
10
Should be easy. That's fewer people than came to Trump's inauguration.
2
I can see 50 million people spread out at 300+ town halls over the next couple of years. That might get their attention.
So when I can't afford the equivalent of a house payment for health insurance I'll take comfort in knowing I am exercising my freedom. Thank Republicans almighty I'm free at last!
12
Our insurance premiums exceed 24,000 per employee now. Since we rely on skilled older workers for our very specific technical business I see nothing positive from all this.
Further, the new "immigration difficulty" situation has discouraged our customers from visiting or doing business in the USA. I was politely questioned by a Pakistani taxi driver in Melbourne, Australia this week about the US political situation and how Pakistanis, Indians and dark skinned people fear being beaten or being killed in the USA. What exactly could I tell him ?
This is not hyperbole, but rather a recital of facts.
I am still trying to figure out a reason why we will not relocate out multi-million dollar business employing 12 persons overseas .. but each day makes it harder to find any reason why. If we cannot insure anyone, well, we are done, because we need those 50-75 year olds for their expertise.
All the tax cuts and buy American provisions in the world will do nothing to improve our business or the infrastructure that attracts our clients to USA, so I guess the topic is pretty much over by the end of 2017.
From Hamburg, Germany .....
Further, the new "immigration difficulty" situation has discouraged our customers from visiting or doing business in the USA. I was politely questioned by a Pakistani taxi driver in Melbourne, Australia this week about the US political situation and how Pakistanis, Indians and dark skinned people fear being beaten or being killed in the USA. What exactly could I tell him ?
This is not hyperbole, but rather a recital of facts.
I am still trying to figure out a reason why we will not relocate out multi-million dollar business employing 12 persons overseas .. but each day makes it harder to find any reason why. If we cannot insure anyone, well, we are done, because we need those 50-75 year olds for their expertise.
All the tax cuts and buy American provisions in the world will do nothing to improve our business or the infrastructure that attracts our clients to USA, so I guess the topic is pretty much over by the end of 2017.
From Hamburg, Germany .....
6
There has to be a better way to come at this without the plan being everyone over the age of 50-die soon!
9
I'm turning 50 this year. Yikes! Since I won't be able to afford healthcare, I may as well throw a last gasp bash!
I have had insurance throughout my life. After paying in for so many years, why am I being penalized now?
6
Let's all also keep in mind the President's* newest 'Executive Order' appropriating the ability to decimate the Executive Branch of government - that's everything from Department of Treasury, through State, Defence, Agriculture, Commerce....
2
So, in a sense, this bill places a "worth" on human beings. Some are worth more. Some less. According to age. And a few are worth a whole lot more - because they already own substantial assets.
But this transfer of wealth is almost like a form of slavery for some, while others become effective enslavers.
It's the abandonment of human beings, to a substandard existence, that really gets to me.
And those who profit "own" that degradation they've enabled. As if they had purchased those lives. Never that's where I feel physically sickened.
But this transfer of wealth is almost like a form of slavery for some, while others become effective enslavers.
It's the abandonment of human beings, to a substandard existence, that really gets to me.
And those who profit "own" that degradation they've enabled. As if they had purchased those lives. Never that's where I feel physically sickened.
16
Dont you realize how bad those emails were!
2
As some have pointed out here, the need for younger people to care for their uninsured parents will negate any premium reduction. Plus, we can only hope that older Americans -- people who usually are reliable in heading to the polls -- will now understand that they are being cheated and lied to, and will vote out their GOP representatives in 2018. We have to make them understand that once this health bill is passed, Medicare and Social Security will be next.
21
The government "death panels" Sarah Palin used to love to talk about would be a blessing for the elderly under the GOP "Health Plan."
7
The GOP House members who vote for this plan should remember the 60+ year old demographic group votes in greater numbers and in higher percentages than any other group. You can throw your parents & grandparents under the bus now, but watch out for 2018 mid-terms!!
16
After a lifetime of paying premiums and being low-end users of healthcare (in other words, being part of the younger pool of insured that helped fund coverage for my parents' generation), seniors like me are being pushed to the side and told we don't deserve to be healthy in our retirement years. This is immoral. I don't know how Paul Ryan lives with himself.
21
Please keep in mind that Paul Ryan has been promoting the bill; but the entire Republican caucus is pushing for it. This is about Republican indifference to any constituency whose balance sheet is under a few million dollars.
2
Because they voted for him! They get what they wanted. More choice and rejoice in victory!
2
So in other words, the GOP's plan will disproportionately result in poorer health for older peole without college degrees. Ironic, and fitting. Now, if they manage to gut medicare. . . .
7
Republicans have exaggerated the flaws in the Affordable Care Act so stridently over the past 7 years that they no longer have any credibility in my eyes. When you see how badly they have lied and continue to lie about the current system, it will be impossible to believe much of anything they have to say about the replacement proposal.
11
Medicare for all and be done with it. It is high time for the parasitic and corrupt insurance industry and their sycophants to be sent packing. It is high time for the American people to rise up and reject policies, politicians and lobbyists who make money off of the suffering of people in this country. How many people could have had medical care for the money spent during the period of obstructionism by the GOP toward the ACA and now with Billionaire, Millionaire and uber wealthy politicians pretending they know something about health care and heath care finance.
16
Actually, Medicare includes the insurance industry, which provides both alternative plans and extensions to basic Medicare. It's really a very good system because of the competition it permits.
1
So... after paying into the health insurance industry for my whole life, they have developed a plan to extort much more money out of me as I get older and finally need what I have been paying for all these decades.
Seems to me that the entire concept of insurance has been turned on it's head. Considering how the biggest reason given for high medical costs is the high cost of malpractice insurance it looks like the industry is taking with both hands in order to pay their obscene salaries rather than claims.
Once peoples DNA is analyzed and used to discriminate, the whole concept of insurance becomes unnecessary.
Seems to me that the entire concept of insurance has been turned on it's head. Considering how the biggest reason given for high medical costs is the high cost of malpractice insurance it looks like the industry is taking with both hands in order to pay their obscene salaries rather than claims.
Once peoples DNA is analyzed and used to discriminate, the whole concept of insurance becomes unnecessary.
11
Those 50-to-64-year-olds would not only be more likely to run up very high medical bills (as the author notes) they also would be more likely to die from lack of health care. The GOP would probably see this as a feature, not a bug. All those people dying before age 65 wouldn't enroll in Medicare. Win-win!
17
You will end up paying for the older folks who cannot pay their bills as hospitals will raise their fees to cover them!
Reading about this new Republican plan I am struck by how our government policies operate in such a political see-saw like manner. The obamacare initiative took money from medicare advantage programs to pay for including more of the poor , and now the Republicans plan to take money from the older, pre medicare and poorer people to give money back to the wealthy. So in a sense both parties take turns rewarding what they see as their own natural constituencies. Unfortunately , it is now always an even trade off as the wealthy know who their benefactors are and usually vote Republican while the older and poorer people often vote against their own economic interests. It is too bad the country is always so divided by money and class issues and doesn;t adopt a consistent health care policy , one that would avoid these ups and downs and would cover all its citizens ,e.g. nationalized health care
8
There are plenty of wealthy people who see the long game and don't vote Republican. Smart people don't want to live in the global toilet Trump and the Republicans are trying to create.
5
The almost bipolar swings from GOP to Democrats and back again, with the Dems cleaning up the GOPs mess each time, seems literally insane.
One step forward, one back ad infinitum.
Change, but not a substanitial meaningful change, just disruption.
One step forward, one back ad infinitum.
Change, but not a substanitial meaningful change, just disruption.
As Justice Louis Brandeis said,"We can have democracy, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few , but we can't have both."
1) Do these people understand how insurance actually works. Young and healthy people need to be in the pool or it doesn't work. All kinds of insurance is based on sharing the risks - Insurance is not about no risk for anyone.
2) So when the uninsured elderly and poor generated by this plan get sick, they will wait until they are very sick and then go to the Emergency Room instead. Who will pay for this? All of us and at much higher cost than preventative care available from insurance.
2) So when the uninsured elderly and poor generated by this plan get sick, they will wait until they are very sick and then go to the Emergency Room instead. Who will pay for this? All of us and at much higher cost than preventative care available from insurance.
11
One of the media talking points made by Republicans is that the ACA is "not sustainable". However, there is never a follow up question to this: What does unsustainable mean? They bring up charts that mean little to the average viewer and say even less. I wait in hope for someone to go beyond "reporting light" and to get an answer to the question of sustainability. Growth can be predicted, but like the blizzard of March 14, 2017, predictions vary. Tax cuts for the wealthy or medicaid for the poor? TV news reporters typically back away from this important question and create a false dialogue. Health care is always sustainable, and must be, because health is life. It may be tough to pry answers from someone like Tom Price, a heartless ideologue, but given the media's role in the election of 2016, they owe us.
10
Like many of you, I wonder what possesses people like Paul Ryan to willfully inflict so much misery and harm on his fellow Americans. Sadly, we may never know what causes a pedophile to harm children, a rapist to attack women or Ryan to deceptively inflict so much harm on seniors.
What we can do (and must do) is lock up the pedophiles and rapists and remove Ryan from his legislative position.
Here is Ryan's bio. Republican Congressman Paul Ryan was born on January 29, 1970, in Janesville, Wisconsin. Ryan has been serving as the U.S. representative of Wisconsin's Congressional District 1 since 1999.
If you know anyone in his district, please call them and help us rid congress of Ryan.
What we can do (and must do) is lock up the pedophiles and rapists and remove Ryan from his legislative position.
Here is Ryan's bio. Republican Congressman Paul Ryan was born on January 29, 1970, in Janesville, Wisconsin. Ryan has been serving as the U.S. representative of Wisconsin's Congressional District 1 since 1999.
If you know anyone in his district, please call them and help us rid congress of Ryan.
17
Importantly Paul Ryan married into family with money. Politicans are very good at taking a big nest egg and making it even bigger with all the inside help that comes their way. Paul Ryan is no different than many politicians who are financially well off, that is from their perch on high they always seem apt at tightning the bootstraps..of the people who have the least.
6
To whom will older American turn for help with their health care if they don't have good insurance? To their children of course. Unless those children are willing to let their parents suffer from disease, they will end up paying to some degree for their parents healthcare.
So, youngsters, start saving that money you'll be saving on health insurance premiums to pay for your parents healthcare, or steel yourself to watch mom & dad suffer.
So, youngsters, start saving that money you'll be saving on health insurance premiums to pay for your parents healthcare, or steel yourself to watch mom & dad suffer.
4
The real problem with this plan and others like it, is that it doesn't account for how much uninsured patients cost. Just because they are not insured does not mean they don't use/ receive healthcare. They do, usually via an emergency room, which is the most expensive way to deliver care, and for high cost situations since they have not done any preventive screenings.
The real basic question (which was raised by Obama) is whether we are a society that delivers healthcare to all or not. If we are, then we just need to get over ourselves and provide single payer healthcare (sometimes known as universal healthcare) like many other first world countries, who by the way, have better healthcare outcomes than US by far.
If we don't care about providing care to everyone, then we should not need any government program and allow people to just buy the healthcare they can afford. Then we train doctors and nurses to get insurance cards before they treat anyone and get used to people just dying in the street if they are uninsured.
Another point is, right now, we do give everyone access to healthcare via ER's, 911 services, and the like. And we (taxpayers) all pay for it. But because we don't want admit that we care about all people, we deliver it in the most inefficient, high cost, bad outcome sort of way.
The real basic question (which was raised by Obama) is whether we are a society that delivers healthcare to all or not. If we are, then we just need to get over ourselves and provide single payer healthcare (sometimes known as universal healthcare) like many other first world countries, who by the way, have better healthcare outcomes than US by far.
If we don't care about providing care to everyone, then we should not need any government program and allow people to just buy the healthcare they can afford. Then we train doctors and nurses to get insurance cards before they treat anyone and get used to people just dying in the street if they are uninsured.
Another point is, right now, we do give everyone access to healthcare via ER's, 911 services, and the like. And we (taxpayers) all pay for it. But because we don't want admit that we care about all people, we deliver it in the most inefficient, high cost, bad outcome sort of way.
6
First thing we do: Fire the elderly!
Second thing we do: Fire the poor!
Third thing we do: Tax cuts for the 1%!
Second thing we do: Fire the poor!
Third thing we do: Tax cuts for the 1%!
11
Heard a GOP commentator on NPR speak about how people are going to have to rely on "the grace of the community" for healthcare. Compassionate Conservativism on display for all to see. Time to roll out the thousand points of light speech again.
8
Trumpcare is the death panel for older Americans.
16
The CBO underestimates the amount saved. People too poor to obtain healthcare will see doctors later and their illnesses will be more difficult to treat. They will die sooner and therefore save social security a bundle. Not my way to run a country.
7
The interesting thing is that, of course, if a person lives long enough...no longer much of a given thanks to Ryan...they will get old. Quite possibly also sick. And that's when they will be hit with higher premiums...just when they can't afford it. So, I wish our young people a ton of luck...they're going to need it.
11
Instead of repealing the metal tiers of the ACA, which represent different actuarial values, Republicans might more honestly add the kind of even lower tier plan, below "Bronze," they have in mind to peddle to the young and careless once older, sicker, poorer Americans have been systematically weeded out. Call it "Dirt."
14
Or Tin, to keep with the metal theme.
In 2013, before Obamacare, there were 57 million uninsured. By 2026, with Trumpcare, there will be 52 million uninsured. Which raises the question ... why even bother?
5
What a disgrace. They don't seem capable or have any capacity for shame.
9
Insurance companies set the rates, without universal health care no party can control health insurance.
6
Get rid of all insurance! If you cant pay you die! Set up an uber for medical practice! That is the way to bring down costs!
1
Math has never been my strong suit, but why is the quoted 10% decrease in premiums by 2026 such a selling point? Ten percent discount off an expensive product isn't that great. To quote beloved Republican Sarah Palin, "You can't put lipstick on a pig..."
8
Some questions to ask about the promised savings in premiums: will those policies still cover everything the ACA covers (no), will the deductible be higher (of course) and will co-payments be higher (of course)? One way or another, people will not be paying less if they have any healthcare expenses at all.
3
The 10% decrease in premiums by 2026 is not 10% of today's prices, as Republicans would like us to believe. It's a 10% decrease of 2026 prices which will, like everything else you purchase cost much more than it does today......
2
Republicons have long complained about how the ACA is convoluted. Yet, their plan would give a higher subsidy to older people and then allow insurance companies to take even more away by charging 5 times the insurance premium for younger people instead the ACA's 3 times. How screwed up is that? They might as well eliminate the middleman and just give the money to the insurance companies directly.
4
Certain politicians have made gun rights more important than healthcare rights for all, likewise, car insurance is mandated for all car owners but not healthcare insurance. These same politicians help the NRA & insurance companies that pay them millions! It's not about the American people! If it was, millions would not be losing coverage, the wealthy would not get a tax break and the healthcare insurance industry would not be getting more tax breaks, worth millions. Republicans in their proposed plan want to give bigger tax breaks to the healthcare companies. This is morally wrong to ensure higher salaries for CEO's making millions off of healthcare but not cover all Americans with healthcare. Top CEO's make between 10 and 17 million dollars each! It is outrageous! Are people in government for the people and by the people or for lobbyists & corporations, aka money donors? Republicans are continuing to brainwash American people by pushing their same old propaganda talking points but now it is more blatant and hollow than ever before. It is time to reframe the names and the platforms of the political parties for what they really stand for and promote.
For example, corrupt Tom Price is like the wolf disguised as grandma in the Little Red Riding Hood!
For example, corrupt Tom Price is like the wolf disguised as grandma in the Little Red Riding Hood!
2
"The Republican plan is designed to pass using a special budget procedure requiring only 50 votes in the Senate."
Does this mean that the Democrats can switch it back if they get 218 House members and 51 Senators?
Does this mean that the Democrats can switch it back if they get 218 House members and 51 Senators?
1
The ACA has not been repealed and is still in effect. Until it is repealed it remains in effect. Passage of Trumpcare can take place, but it does not automatically overwrite the ACA.
2
Yup. But, how many will be dead by then? A friend, relative, neighbor, member of your church? Do we want to wait until a million are dead? Or do we want to stop him now? Him & his co-conspirators (repugs in congress & everyone on *45's team). Try them for capital murder. For conspiring to commit these murders. For stealing from the American people to line their own pockets, leaving just enough to line the rich people's pockets yet again. When you are a duly elected official, or appointed by one, & conspire to kill a certain section of the population (older Americans & seniors, add the poor, addicted, & disabled to that too), that is called treason. They have all taken oaths to protect both this country AND it's citizens. They are breaking these oaths & paying the rich off so they can continue. They want to rule this country NOT govern it. They want to be our owners, not OUR employees. This is not hateful politics at it's worst. It is dictatorship. You do it my way, or no way. They may trip themselves up because too many want to be on top. But, we cannot wait to see. Too many will die. Just think, one poor child may die, who if (s)he had lived, gotten a scholarship to college, medical school, & then become a medical researcher. This child might have found the cure for what you will die from, but because Ryan killed him/her, you will die. Maybe Ryan will die from that disease too, would serve him right.
Ryan professes to be Christian. This plan is un-Christian to its core. Therefore, Ryan is not a Christian. Ryan is a hypocrite, a liar, and a scoundrel.
My most fervent hope is that he pays for that in this life and in the next life as well.
My most fervent hope is that he pays for that in this life and in the next life as well.
11
I agree, I have been saying this for a week!
The bill reads like something an insurance company wrote. I think I smell insurance lobbyist. Maybe AARP lobby will have something to say about scrapping Ryan's bill?
7
The politicians should also remember that older people vote more often and more consistently than 20-somethings.
Go ahead and fool with them. Then they will do their thing at the voting booth.
Wait and see.
Go ahead and fool with them. Then they will do their thing at the voting booth.
Wait and see.
6
I don't like this bill or the whole Republican approach -- but you have to admit that the phrase "penalizing older patients and rewarding younger ones" is clearly biased. The better objective argument is that the current ACA "penalizes younger patients and rewards older ones". What would you call a reversal of that?
The current ACA represents a large tax on young people to support older ones. (One of MANY such bias' in our current entitlement system.). Whether or not you think that may be justified, please at least be honest about it. We are not going to figure out how to get more young people into the system by pretending the current system represent parity.
The current ACA represents a large tax on young people to support older ones. (One of MANY such bias' in our current entitlement system.). Whether or not you think that may be justified, please at least be honest about it. We are not going to figure out how to get more young people into the system by pretending the current system represent parity.
You do know how insurance works, right? Adverse risk and all that? Young people will at the very least, need coverage as they age, of course we want them to invest in the system as they do so. It's not "bias".
1
Elected and government employees cannot be exempted from the plan and mandatorily participate!
2
First of all, this is not about 'health care'. It is a purge of a system that the GOP does not support and because of this certain segments of the populace are being punished.
The GOP does not believe government should help anyone unless they are successfully rich. That proves them worthy because dammit, they did it on their own. Where is the care or logic in that view?
Punishing people for getting older and therefore more prone to sickness is what they believe to be right. Younger, more healthy people should then logically be helped. By that theory, they can be purged when they get old and in need.
What kind of crazy plan is this? Well, it allows the GOP to claim saving money. They are not in the business to save lives, unless you consider corporations as people.
So money saved goes to tax cuts for the rich. Over time the other money saved offsets any increasing cost. How wonderful to feel more for a budget plan than people.
As for Trump, I'm sure that 5 minutes after he claimed to save healthcare once ACA was gone, he simply forgot he said it. After talking to Ryan he remembered his disdain for Obama and is good with this plan.
What a sorry excuse for a nation that is so wealthy but is now led by a party of cold-calculating and conniving bunch of liars and thieves more proud of screwing people than enhancing lives.
The GOP does not believe government should help anyone unless they are successfully rich. That proves them worthy because dammit, they did it on their own. Where is the care or logic in that view?
Punishing people for getting older and therefore more prone to sickness is what they believe to be right. Younger, more healthy people should then logically be helped. By that theory, they can be purged when they get old and in need.
What kind of crazy plan is this? Well, it allows the GOP to claim saving money. They are not in the business to save lives, unless you consider corporations as people.
So money saved goes to tax cuts for the rich. Over time the other money saved offsets any increasing cost. How wonderful to feel more for a budget plan than people.
As for Trump, I'm sure that 5 minutes after he claimed to save healthcare once ACA was gone, he simply forgot he said it. After talking to Ryan he remembered his disdain for Obama and is good with this plan.
What a sorry excuse for a nation that is so wealthy but is now led by a party of cold-calculating and conniving bunch of liars and thieves more proud of screwing people than enhancing lives.
9
Well, if they aren't going to pay for much of anything, why don't they just drop the subtlety and allow anyone to pick up the "Death with Dignity" cocktail at the closest pharmacy (no copay, of course.)
8
C.A. That is illegal in most states. The congress is always legal. (Ya Right)
Only the government has the right to decide when it is ok (or better than ok, mandated) for you to die. Then there will be a heavy penalty, to make sure no money stays with your family, that they could have stolen. They will refuse to allow you to get medical help, until you die, but, if you kill yourself, they will take everything from every relative, for not "saving" you.
They will even do their best to take the money your loved one put down on a "prepaid, preplanned" funeral. They will take the body (for a fee of course), give it to a medical school for them to "practice" on. Then it will just be disposed of at the nearest landfill incinerator, the ashes collected to use in fertilizer (ingredients for which are getting scarcer). Maybe someday they will bypass that & just start making soylent green. Cemeteries will be cleared off & turned into either business or government properties. No need to take care of the dead. They are DEAD. Which is what they want for many of us.
Repugs love the word mandated, as long as they can make it seem it is either in a bill because Demipoots put it there, or that it shows how benevolent they are (NOT).
Only the government has the right to decide when it is ok (or better than ok, mandated) for you to die. Then there will be a heavy penalty, to make sure no money stays with your family, that they could have stolen. They will refuse to allow you to get medical help, until you die, but, if you kill yourself, they will take everything from every relative, for not "saving" you.
They will even do their best to take the money your loved one put down on a "prepaid, preplanned" funeral. They will take the body (for a fee of course), give it to a medical school for them to "practice" on. Then it will just be disposed of at the nearest landfill incinerator, the ashes collected to use in fertilizer (ingredients for which are getting scarcer). Maybe someday they will bypass that & just start making soylent green. Cemeteries will be cleared off & turned into either business or government properties. No need to take care of the dead. They are DEAD. Which is what they want for many of us.
Repugs love the word mandated, as long as they can make it seem it is either in a bill because Demipoots put it there, or that it shows how benevolent they are (NOT).
Now, it is up to the Dems to finally communicate. They left the battlefield to the Republicans and Frank Luntz and Breitbart for 7 years. The content of this article should have been repeated many times by the media in the last seven years. Promising to fulfill stupid campaign promises made over the past seven years is not a good reason to actually pursue seriously damaging legislation!
I think the Dems have been saying all along many things that were true about the ACA: that it lowered the rate of increase, and that there were problems needing to be fixed. The GOP kept up their loud, cherry-picked lies and now the chickens are coming home to roost. People have chosen to believe fantastic promises by Ryan, Trump, et al. Health care costs money. If money is more important than health care for flesh and blood human beings, that's a choice. It would not be my choice but apparently it is the choice of the ideologues who think everyone should fend for themselves no matter how old, sick, poor or disabled they may be. That's the plan, according to our so-called POTUS and you know what the plan is, says he.
2
You know know why the repugs never put forth a replacement. The data in this report was not available until just over a week ago. The OBC studied it as soon as they got it, & came out with a report. It couldn't have been repeated in the media over & over for 7 years. As this repug DEATH BILL did not exist. That fact is not the fault of demipoots, the media, or anyone but the repugs. If we had the data sometime during the last 7 years, we could have kept the congress majority demipoot, & the WH too! But, they never wrote it out. They said anyway. Then for a month they hemmed & hawed, had a few closed door meetings, & boom, all written, rewritten, passed out, voted on. Less than 2 days. Someone just had to pull it out of a safe somewhere, make copies, & sandbag us. Liars all. Demipoots are too polite. No matter what none will walk up to Ryan & kick him in the testicles with steel toed boots. Or the political equivalent. Though I would do the real thing. WE the PEOPLE must do it. WE MUST march on Washington & make them act like decent humans, even if we must imprison some, hang some, & just shoot some.
Speaker Ryan, we are not idiots, and when you tout the positives in the CBO report without addressing how those positives come at the expense, according to the same report, of older Americans, already living on fixed incomes of whom are the most likely part of our population to need good healthcare insurance, is unconscionable!
Doesn't anyone remember the out of control costs of free market healthcare insurance before managed care, HMOs and the ACA?
One way to put healthcare dollars back into healthcare is to cap the profits of, or make not for profit, the multi billion dollar insurance industry. In the state of PA the only provider that remains in the marketplace is a nonprofit. I wonder why? The insurance industry is in the business of making money not providing affordable healthcare pure and simple.
Doesn't anyone remember the out of control costs of free market healthcare insurance before managed care, HMOs and the ACA?
One way to put healthcare dollars back into healthcare is to cap the profits of, or make not for profit, the multi billion dollar insurance industry. In the state of PA the only provider that remains in the marketplace is a nonprofit. I wonder why? The insurance industry is in the business of making money not providing affordable healthcare pure and simple.
4
You hit the nail on the head, but no matter how many times Mr. Ryan gets pounded, he is obligated to support industry not Americans.
You need to check the salaries of upper management in all non profit companies and organizations. If the head is making millions, you can call that "salary" profit. It is unconscionable. Add "bonuses" to that & those are also profits. Just called something else. In MA under the ACA, insurance companies have to pay back some of the premiums paid by companies & employers, if the payout is below a certain percentage. Of course from what we say before we went to Medicare, that money went to the company, & they sent us a letter saying they would use it to lower premiums, which never lowered. They would say if asked, that if they hadn't done that the premiums would have gone up. So, insurance company found a way around the ACA, & still get more "profit".
THE DEATH BILL will not stop that sort of thing, just make it way easier. Pay more, get less, give them back what they are required to give to you, & premiums go up anyway.
Why I will fight anyone over Medicare & SS. I will fight in the halls of crooked politicians (every one of them is one, until proved otherwise), I will fight them in the streets along with the Citizens' Army. I will volunteer to pull the lever to drop the hatch when we hang them, after confiscating every dollar & every asset their family has. To help those they are trying to kill. They die, their families will be penniless, homeless, jobless (who wants to hire any member of one of the murderers family?), no benefits of every kind. For them SS & MedCare isn't.
THE DEATH BILL will not stop that sort of thing, just make it way easier. Pay more, get less, give them back what they are required to give to you, & premiums go up anyway.
Why I will fight anyone over Medicare & SS. I will fight in the halls of crooked politicians (every one of them is one, until proved otherwise), I will fight them in the streets along with the Citizens' Army. I will volunteer to pull the lever to drop the hatch when we hang them, after confiscating every dollar & every asset their family has. To help those they are trying to kill. They die, their families will be penniless, homeless, jobless (who wants to hire any member of one of the murderers family?), no benefits of every kind. For them SS & MedCare isn't.
We now understand the GOP's obsession with 'death panels" it was their plan to kill off the working class in order to keep ladling Treasury giveaways to the rich. You destroy healthcare for the those about to retire ... they have to work in order to pay for healthcare and that reduces the money that will have to be paid out in the form of Social Security and Medicare.
We kept hearing from the right-wing that Obama was the anti-Christ; with this healthcare plan the GOP has officially become the party of mammon.
We kept hearing from the right-wing that Obama was the anti-Christ; with this healthcare plan the GOP has officially become the party of mammon.
6
Say it straight and right. Both SS & Medicare are not entitlements. We, all working people, have been paying into the trust funds for a long time. When you reach retirement age & have to sign up for Medicare, or pay a penalty, you are still paying in (Medicare sign up is 65, SS, at this point, is 67) as long as you work. Plus once signed up you still have to pay a quarterly "fee" to Medicare (spouse's & mine are a little over $400 a quarter each, & keep changing), add to that you must pick (must=mandate) either an "add-on" or a MedicareHMO plan, more useful they are the more the premium is. We are moving our scripts to Walmart. It's cheaper even if the HMO doesn't pay any of it, deductible for their mail in is well over $3000 a year, & they add some of it to your bill with every refill. So what Walmart charges $10 for 90 days for, costs well over $300 with "plan". Plan is right, plan to steal all your money.
I'm long term disabled. We (because I was raised that way) were proud of not taking a dime from the government. We stood on our own. Now I feel like a fool. After not taking anything, they call me a leach for taking what we paid for (Medicare, and later SS). I get it through my spouse's account. I will get every penny I deserve as will my husband. If they take that I will have no reason to not go kill people who did this to all our disabled & elderly. I will march with the CITIZENS' ARMY. I will carry & use a firearm. I will make sure others coming after get to live.
I'm long term disabled. We (because I was raised that way) were proud of not taking a dime from the government. We stood on our own. Now I feel like a fool. After not taking anything, they call me a leach for taking what we paid for (Medicare, and later SS). I get it through my spouse's account. I will get every penny I deserve as will my husband. If they take that I will have no reason to not go kill people who did this to all our disabled & elderly. I will march with the CITIZENS' ARMY. I will carry & use a firearm. I will make sure others coming after get to live.
In opposing the ACA, the Republicans trumpted their made-up "death panels" out of feigned concern for the elderly. Now that they're in charge, older people are in the crosshairs. Nice.
11
I turn 64 this year. Great. Now I spend the rest of my life stressed and worrying.
What planning I have done with what I have now appears very inadequate. Will they keep me on at my job until I am 75? Seems necessary now.
What planning I have done with what I have now appears very inadequate. Will they keep me on at my job until I am 75? Seems necessary now.
3
You would quality for Medicare at age 65. They aren't proposing to dismantle Medicare . . . YET. Of course, some of the savings that the ACA put into Medicare will go away if this albatross of a bill passes.
2
Elizabeth, you did toward retirement, what you needed to do given the assurances of the Federal Government that SS & Medicare would be there when you retired. We have paid into that system for many years. Neither is an entitlement. They are paid up insurance policies, backed by the Feds. And stolen from by Congress (all of them from the beginning). Over 3 TRILLION DOLLARS STOLEN. Bet that money, if it was in the trust funds, would pay for the retirement, & medical care of all those who are, or will be over 65 in the next decade or more. With no quarterly payments, better MedicareHMOs, with no premiums. Maybe Millennials should be counseled to save 85% of their gross pay every week in "retirement" accounts. No frills living, no owning houses, no having new cars, only store brands for food, clothing, & other necessities. No health insurance until they turn, well by then it will probably be 90, same with SS.
Hopefully the work you do is something you can keep doing for a long time. When you hit 65 you will save your company money. They won't have to pay for health insurance for you. You will have Medicare & whatever add on or HMO who pick. At least until Ryan ends Medicare & SS. Then steals the rest of the money in the trust funds (big slice to *45, he wants to be a trillionaire), another to the rich, & of course a nice size piece for himself.) No matter what he says will be done with it. Oh, he won't stop the taxes you pay for it every week. No Sirreh Bob!
Hopefully the work you do is something you can keep doing for a long time. When you hit 65 you will save your company money. They won't have to pay for health insurance for you. You will have Medicare & whatever add on or HMO who pick. At least until Ryan ends Medicare & SS. Then steals the rest of the money in the trust funds (big slice to *45, he wants to be a trillionaire), another to the rich, & of course a nice size piece for himself.) No matter what he says will be done with it. Oh, he won't stop the taxes you pay for it every week. No Sirreh Bob!
Let's be clear. The AHCA is NOT a healthcare bill, it is a budgetary bill.
The republicans are trying to pass the AHCA using the Budget Reconciliation process.
Using this process in which legislation can be passed with a simple majority, the only aspects of the ACA that can be addressed are those having to do with issues relating to cost. There s no way the Republicans can come up with a comprehensive 'healthcare' bill through the BRP.
That's the main reason that this bill is mess.
It's built on lies and deception. Don't be fooled by the rhetoric.....
The republicans are trying to pass the AHCA using the Budget Reconciliation process.
Using this process in which legislation can be passed with a simple majority, the only aspects of the ACA that can be addressed are those having to do with issues relating to cost. There s no way the Republicans can come up with a comprehensive 'healthcare' bill through the BRP.
That's the main reason that this bill is mess.
It's built on lies and deception. Don't be fooled by the rhetoric.....
7
Old people who no longer work don't contribute to millionaire pocketbooks, so they will be put out to pasture by Trump and the GOP. Those of us who are in unions will (hopefully) be covered in our Golden Years, but the Red State folks who drank the Republican Kool-Aid and let guys like Scott Walker bust up their unions will be left high and dry.
9
They want to dismantle Medicare next. Many union members get Medicare with a supplement that is underwritten by union insurance. Watch your backs folks. If you are young now, you are not exempt from having nothing to fall back on in retirement. That is what the GOP wants: dismantle all of the social safety net for everyone except the rich.
4
It is really sad that the Republicans can't get their act together. If the Republicans don't solve this we are going to swing left and end up with a socialist nationally run health care system like expanded VA where you try to schedule with a government doctor and then get denied care so the bureaucrats can cover up their inefficiency.
I am in my 60s, white with only a high school education. I voted for Hillary Clinton, have always voted Democratic more recently Working Family Party.
I am still dumbfounded that my demographic went overwhelmingly for Trump and the Republicans. What were you thinking? Did you have your head in the sand during the last 10-20 years as they tried to privatize social security, propose a voucher system for medicare and do everything they could to block and sabotage the ACA? I wish i could be kinder but you are getting what you voted for and what you deserve, unfortunately the rest of us will suffer too.
I am still dumbfounded that my demographic went overwhelmingly for Trump and the Republicans. What were you thinking? Did you have your head in the sand during the last 10-20 years as they tried to privatize social security, propose a voucher system for medicare and do everything they could to block and sabotage the ACA? I wish i could be kinder but you are getting what you voted for and what you deserve, unfortunately the rest of us will suffer too.
15
I recently took the time to write to VP Pence asking him to seriously consider the implications of allowing "Alternate Facts" to go unchallenged by men like him, who I might disagree with but who I do believe (now did believe) wanted to serve his Country (and mine) honorably. What I have received as a reply is a daily barrage of information and biased surveys from the Whitehouse. Things like "Tell us how Obamacare ruined your life " or "Tell us your about your worst Obamacare nightmare". There is no opportunity to give a "Good" Obamacare story. The email then follows up with links to Breitbart News and other FAR ALT RIGHT "News" outlets. Obviously they are using the Whitehouse Email Servers as one more way to reach out to the masses, hoping to turn us all into "True Trump Believers". I personally find it creepy to get Whitehouse Emails filled with questions and surveys designed to be misleading. The Republican Heath Care Bill is cut from this same cloth. Everyone is free to choose the plan they want - heck which do YOU want, food and shelter or a medical plan that will cover you if and when you need it? You choose, not the government. And if you are 62, sick, and poor, you are the problem. Why should the public help you? Here is a tax deduction, oh sorry, you don't pay taxes, well neither does the President, but then he has plenty of cash to pay HIS bills. He's smart, you're stupid, especially if you voted for him!
4
I knew that the GOP favored the death penalty. I didn't know that they wanted to kill all but the very rich however. I thought it was just for heinous crimes. Apparently not as shown by this so-called American Health Care Act. Cyanide anyone?
2
Essentially, the Republican Party has abandoned everyone over 50 but under 65 who does not obtain their health insurance through an employer's policy. Also abandoned is anyone who regularly requires a prescription drug, as prices, without any action by Congress, will continue to rise (greed being more powerful than concern for one's fellow humans--as big pharma has demonstrated). Employers are likely to begin to rescind the offer of sponsored health insurance, just as they have, in recent years, begun to lower the percentage of policy cost they pay.
Taken all together, this is a slap in the face to the electorate. The electorate should respond by turning out to the polls in 2018 and throwing the GOP out of Congress, state legislatures, and governorships. It is the only way to get their attention.
Taken all together, this is a slap in the face to the electorate. The electorate should respond by turning out to the polls in 2018 and throwing the GOP out of Congress, state legislatures, and governorships. It is the only way to get their attention.
5
Their is a very easy answer to solving the issue. The government has already had a nationwide marketplace. That has some plans that are plans that cross state borders. In fact it is one of the largest healthcare plans in the country. The Republican Congress and Senators are doing this whole Repeal so they can get off the ACA and get back on it. It is the FEHB plan.
For 2017 the Nationwide ( across state lines) BCBS Basic plan which is like an HMO ( you can only use network providers but it has $O deductible in exchange but $7,000 per person max out of pocket is $7,407.36 per year individual or $17,665 family coverage. The BCBS family standard plan which allows the use of providers outside the plan but requires a $300 deductible and higher copays a $6,000 per person out of pocket max out of pocket max. Is $8,519.16 per person $19,740 per family. In atlanta the FEHP has 17 plans competing this year. In other markets they have over 30. All have several nationwide plans. At least 95% of the doctors and hospitals take FEHP.
Why not just over the refundable tax credits on a sliding scale based on income and family size to all who make up to x amounts of the poverty with gradual phase out. Don't forget Head of house holds. Eventually encourage business to join this larger group for efficiencies.
Yes there has to be a penalty for those who don't enroll. Just like in Medicare, if you do not enroll in Medicare when you are first eligible you are forever stuck with Add
For 2017 the Nationwide ( across state lines) BCBS Basic plan which is like an HMO ( you can only use network providers but it has $O deductible in exchange but $7,000 per person max out of pocket is $7,407.36 per year individual or $17,665 family coverage. The BCBS family standard plan which allows the use of providers outside the plan but requires a $300 deductible and higher copays a $6,000 per person out of pocket max out of pocket max. Is $8,519.16 per person $19,740 per family. In atlanta the FEHP has 17 plans competing this year. In other markets they have over 30. All have several nationwide plans. At least 95% of the doctors and hospitals take FEHP.
Why not just over the refundable tax credits on a sliding scale based on income and family size to all who make up to x amounts of the poverty with gradual phase out. Don't forget Head of house holds. Eventually encourage business to join this larger group for efficiencies.
Yes there has to be a penalty for those who don't enroll. Just like in Medicare, if you do not enroll in Medicare when you are first eligible you are forever stuck with Add
1
FEHB is the Federal Employees Health Benefit. It is the equivalent of a major corporation's employee health insurance offerings, in this case covering all non-military Federal employees. Because the 'pool' of Federal employees is very large, prices have the advantage as do benefits. Exactly like any other large employer, Federal employee health insurance plans are partly paid for by their employer, as a benefit. Extending membership in the FEHB is the equivalent of 'Medicare for All' or 'VA for All' - that is a single insurance access point covering most.
1
I don't support opening FEHB to those outside the federal workforce. Can I take advantage of the employee benefits of corporations I don't work for? Of course not. People could have joined the federal workforce to take advantage of FEHB, the federal pension (no longer so generous), TSP (similar to a 401k), as well as the other benefits. Too late now with the hiring freeze plus Trump will most likely call for staff cuts, maybe RIFs.
Medicare has an add on if you do not sign up for it within three months of first being eligible for it and not being covered by an equivalent plan. My mother got burned by the Medicare plan penalty. She was three years younger than my father. My father had a small business and had cobbled together a small group of everybody he could think of to have a group rate. My parents, my aunt the hairdresser, his cousin a sole practice attorney and his family, his accountant and his wife, his other friend an attorney and his family, my sister and her husband a chef, my other sister and her husband a doctor. The only problem the plan was one of those non-conforming Pre Obamacare plans. So when my father turned 65, and my mother was 68 they got a big surprise that my mother would have to pay a penalty for 34 months she had not been covered on Medicare A&B or an equivalent plan ( she was three years and 1 month younger than my father). It ended up being about a 30% penalty each month on her premium. Which was significant because my parents only had combined Social Security of $775 per month.
And they wonder why the replacement plan is not getting universal support. It just isn't fair to charge a senior 5X the cost you're going to charge a younger participant. Even if the cost of treatments will largely be on the shoulders of the customer, it is a raw deal.
4
Trumpcare would actually be a disincentive for corporations to hire older workers. Or to put it another way, an incentive to either fire or lay them off. Because their insurance premiums will cost the company 70% more than a young person in benefits.
So the older worker would face not only age discrimination on the job but also insurance discrimination. This is a recipe for disaster for the older workers.
So the older worker would face not only age discrimination on the job but also insurance discrimination. This is a recipe for disaster for the older workers.
21
It's already happening. "54 and out the door" is real. I know; it happened to me last year. If Medicare was expanded to age 55, however, the reverse would be true.
2
But great for corporate pension plans, as uninsured old people tend to die faster, so less payouts.
That's the Republican way!
That's the Republican way!
3
A majority of who voted for. . . .
If I may quote from Wikipedia (with journalist's footnotes contained therein):
"When he was 16, [now-Congressman Paul] Ryan found his 55-year-old father lying dead in bed of a heart attack. Following the death of his father, Ryan's grandmother moved in with the family, and because she had Alzheimer's, Ryan helped care for her while his mother commuted to college in Madison, Wisconsin. From the time of his father's death until his 18th birthday, Ryan received Social Security survivors benefits, which were saved for his college education."
And his mother presumably collected (as well she should) a survivor's benefit from Social Security, and, later on, Medicare.
In other words, "I got mine. Yours? I don't think so. We need to save the Koch Brothers a few billion."
"When he was 16, [now-Congressman Paul] Ryan found his 55-year-old father lying dead in bed of a heart attack. Following the death of his father, Ryan's grandmother moved in with the family, and because she had Alzheimer's, Ryan helped care for her while his mother commuted to college in Madison, Wisconsin. From the time of his father's death until his 18th birthday, Ryan received Social Security survivors benefits, which were saved for his college education."
And his mother presumably collected (as well she should) a survivor's benefit from Social Security, and, later on, Medicare.
In other words, "I got mine. Yours? I don't think so. We need to save the Koch Brothers a few billion."
61
I just dont understand how American citizens can let Ryan get away with it?
Remind him of those facts via Twitter - again and again and again - its the only form of communication they understand.
Remind him of those facts via Twitter - again and again and again - its the only form of communication they understand.
1
It is my fervent wish that all those Trumpists who reminded us that "elections have consequences" are affected by and "benefit" from Trumpcare. As it turns out, voting against your own best interest ALSO has consequences.
Tell us how "Make America Great Again" is working out for you when you are spending half your fixed income on health insurance premiums.
Tell us how "Make America Great Again" is working out for you when you are spending half your fixed income on health insurance premiums.
10
They won't spend it on health care. They gladly hold onto the cash, consider themselves richer because of the Trump are plan, and complain about the Democrats if anything bad happens.
The Trumpers will never, ever, see inadequate health care as arising from their voting actions.
The Trumpers will never, ever, see inadequate health care as arising from their voting actions.
2
Just fyi - my new health insurance with a $10,000 deductible that pays 80% after that, covering me and Darin is $223.74 per month!
So I am going from $1700 per month Obamacare with a $5,000 deductible costing $20,400 per year to $2,684.88 per year saving me $17,715.12 for insurance I might need to have. Even if I had to put out the $10,000 deductible I'm probably coming out ahead...
So I am going from $1700 per month Obamacare with a $5,000 deductible costing $20,400 per year to $2,684.88 per year saving me $17,715.12 for insurance I might need to have. Even if I had to put out the $10,000 deductible I'm probably coming out ahead...
2
So what law has been voted on to change Obamacare to something else for you to buy? Congress has taken no action yet.
1
The new health care plan has not taken effect yet.
1
how old are you?
2
This may come as a surprise to many under thirty, but you will continue to get older. Time passes in a blink and you'll likely be needing all the medical help you can get. Especially considering the opiate epidemic that is decimating your generation.
16
I hope someone reads this.
In all the information and comment on this awful bill, let me call your attention to
foxnews.com. None of this is on there. The people who are being screwed will never know it until it's too late.
In all the information and comment on this awful bill, let me call your attention to
foxnews.com. None of this is on there. The people who are being screwed will never know it until it's too late.
18
I'd say if you watch Fox and therefore choose to remain ignorant you deserve to be screwed. Ignorance, like elections, has consequences.
3
It is their own collective faults for both listening to Fox and voting Republican. However did their stupidity have to take down the whole country. We will not think kindly of them.
2
do we need to write letters to Fox News to remind them?
2
Remember all those "death panels" that the GOP talked about when ACA was being debated? Well, they got them...thanks to this.
8
No magic here: it's a simple formula. Collect premiums from those less likely to make claims; decline coverage, or simply charge prohibitively expensive premiums, raise deductibles and tighten exclusions for those more likely to make claims. Amass profits, invest them in real estate and other tax sheltered, income producing assets; pay CEOs and directors whopping salaries and bonuses, issue dividends to shareholders; rinse, repeat.
Back to the good ol' days of Social Darwinism. There you have it: 'freedom to choose,' as defined by the Republican Party in 2017.
Back to the good ol' days of Social Darwinism. There you have it: 'freedom to choose,' as defined by the Republican Party in 2017.
17
Who says Trump and Ryan are an odd match? Ryan, the disciple of Ayn Rand believes the weak should not be protected, and the President, who made his fortune cheating the weaker (less lawyered) shifts government funds from benefitting the people to enriching insurance executives (his own class).
Succinct and right on.
Lower premiums, but higher deductibles, and fewer insured are not a good trade off for most of us. In addition, 24 million of our most vulnerable citizens will lose all access to health care insurance? Alder Americans will be forced to pay much, much more?
This is not good law. It was written In the dark of night, and passed without thought by a rabid majority. It should be ignored, and Ryan sent back to the drafting table to come up with a law that works for all of us,
or t
he Republican majority should finally concede that most of the A.C.A. is good and can work for all Americans, if they would jump in and get their states' governors on board, it can still succeed.
This is not good law. It was written In the dark of night, and passed without thought by a rabid majority. It should be ignored, and Ryan sent back to the drafting table to come up with a law that works for all of us,
or t
he Republican majority should finally concede that most of the A.C.A. is good and can work for all Americans, if they would jump in and get their states' governors on board, it can still succeed.
6
I am not sure I understand the statement that the average cost of a plan will go down by 10%. Based on this article it appears that everyone's individual plan could increase in cost but do to the individuals requiring the most care dropping insurance after the first 1-2 years the "average" cost of the remaining plans will be less than the initiial average of all of the plans. If this is the case then saying that the average cost of a plan will decrease by 10% is incredibly misleading.
4
Essentially that is what the article says. Premiums for older individuals will be allowed to be 5 times those for young people under Trumpcare. At the same time subsidies through tax credits will change from income based to age based but the increase in the subsidy will not sufficiently offset the increase in premiums for the older individuals thus significantly increasing their net cost. They will drop their insurance so insurers will have a pool of younger lower cost individuals to cover so premiums would decrease.
Throughout much of the western industrialized world we have been now and in to the future be dealing with a proportionately larger and larger aging population base. I assume by the premise of this column and what it describes as being a cornerstone of this so-called plan, if no one else, the biggest benefactors going forward will be those in the funeral home business.
7
I wonder if Paul Ryan, who must have presidential aspirations, has simply decided that wooing younger people is his best path to the White House. Otherwise this abomination of a plan, which is going to alienate reliable voters, is difficult to understand from a strategic strandpoint let alone a practical one.
15
Ryan doesn't seem to realize that younger people have parents and grandparents and they probably won't enjoy watching them sicken and die without health care.
2
I guess you can compare the reversal of Obamacare with the removal of the draft. Both issues are quite similar if you get down to the basics. By stopping the draft and continually increasing military spending our nation keeps buying equipment that either doesn't work or that most of our citizens really do not want to use. When you have a large Military, you have to pay people, and corporations do not make money paying people, they make money by making stuff. Just think you produce a new weapon. Do not use it and then in 5 or 10 years it becomes obsolete and you have to throw it away and buy an upgraded model A License to print money
Part 1 Part 2 on the way
Part 1 Part 2 on the way
4
These Republics want to raise the defense budget while attacking Medicare and Medicaid for the neediest populations. So, they support war and all things attached to it, but protecting healthcare for our own citizens, not so much.
6
These ideologues apparently don't believe in insurance. However, they do believe in the watered down ideas of Ayn Rand.
12
Little did we know the "death panels" that Republicans were predicting in 2010 would materialize under their replacement plan, but it has. Hang on America I fear that our life expectancy will be going down hill quite quickly and soon.
10
Republicans screamed about so-called "death panels" - but they apparently think it's ok to just let those who are poor and elderly die for lack of health care. They certainly cannot seriously think the poor can afford to spend 50% of their meager incomes on health insurance.
11
Young working adults, take heed: while you may save on health insurance due to your age, you can be sure there will be plenty of 50, 60, and 65 year olds clinging to jobs you want (especially those jobs which offer reasonably priced pre-tax health insurance plans) .
They're literally clinging for dear life to those jobs - because they can't afford the cost of health insurance otherwise. Affordable health insurance can be the line between being able to cover the basic costs of living - or facing old age while struggling desperately to stay financially afloat.
They're literally clinging for dear life to those jobs - because they can't afford the cost of health insurance otherwise. Affordable health insurance can be the line between being able to cover the basic costs of living - or facing old age while struggling desperately to stay financially afloat.
18
This is the GOP plan to replace Obamacare? If the GOP leadership was smart - a big if - they would have refined and improved Obamacare so that there is a minimum level of guaranteed care for all but require all participants (not a mandate) to pay according to ability and desire. Now what they call a plan means some people win (sort of) and a lot lose. This is not a plan, forget strategy. If older Americans are stupid enough to shoot themselves in both feet because socialism is unAmerican, be my guest. There is no cure for stupid - all one can do is take care of oneself. Guess we are all on our own.
4
Ryan needs to be informed that the MAJOR responsibility of the able bodied in a culture is to care for their elderly, sick and vulnerable, and their children. Ryan and the Republicans should be ashamed of themselves. That Ryan said he was "encouraged" by the CBOs numbers that would put health insurance financially out of reach for millions of seniors and vulnerable people shows what a heartless, compassionless, privileged, white man that he is. I hope his constituents throw him out when he is next up for election.
17
"the MAJOR responsibility of the able bodied in a culture is to care for their elderly, sick and vulnerable, and their children. "
This plan will reduce the amount the government takes from them, and allow them to fulfill this responsibility.
This plan will reduce the amount the government takes from them, and allow them to fulfill this responsibility.
As our choice narrows to dying in bed or at the curb, assisted suicide may become the elder issue of our time. Thanks Ryan, Trump and McConnell. It took you eight years to come up with "kill people."
16
Surprise, Surprise! More horrific than the true numbers themselves is the photo of Gilligan trying to give a power point presentation last week. Is this the reason the Right, Far-Right, and Right Media give Gilligan so much credibility and continue to call Gilligan the "intellectual" of the republican party? Because Gilligan is the only one of the ninnies capable of even giving a power point presentation? Enough Already! Call a spade a spade!
3
Gilligan? Try Eddie Munster.
The republican party has declared war on America, on the Bill of Rights and the Constitution! Enough - it's time for Sun Tsu! We need to relentlessly focus on and attack republican where they are the weakest and never, never, never let up. We need to launch impeachment and recall campaigns on every single elected republican in the United States from local Dog Catcher to President - NOW.
7
The fact that Ryan (a beneficiary both then and now of government assistance and largesse) now wants to pull the ladder up behind him is hypocritical at best, catastrophic at worst.
This simply demonstrates conclusively that Ryan came by his nickname ("Zombie-Eyed Granny Starver") honestly.
This simply demonstrates conclusively that Ryan came by his nickname ("Zombie-Eyed Granny Starver") honestly.
11
To say the CBO is not credible in their assessment of the the GOP replacement plan for the ACA is beyond ludicrous! Call Speaker Ryan at 202-225-3031 and tell him his plan will cause millions to lose their healthcare. Tell him you want the exact same plan he has as a member of the United States House of Representatives! That would solve the healthcare issues once and for all.
6
This plan should be called Republicare, not Trumpcare. It's the first step in realizing the long-held Republican dream of eliminating all help for those who have the misfortune of not being rich and privileged.
11
When the old folks get a taste of this great plan, Marco Rubio will have to go back to Cuba for his safety.
5
How much money do we also save by eliminating the CBO. These facts are all very inconvenient.
2
Probably already on the chopping block
Ryan does not know the difference between markets and insurance. His thinking is narrowed to the simplicistic view of Ann Rand, like Greenspan another worshipper, who was asleep as the 2009 crash developed. No thanks Allan.
Ryan believes that less demand for healthcare will produce lower prices even if older people have die to lower demand. Who needs death panels when we can have death pricing, he must think, if he even does.
The CBO pulled back the curtain on this huckster, thank goodness.
Ryan believes that less demand for healthcare will produce lower prices even if older people have die to lower demand. Who needs death panels when we can have death pricing, he must think, if he even does.
The CBO pulled back the curtain on this huckster, thank goodness.
6
As a millennial working in high-tech industry, I always hold myself responsible for the sustainability of our society from education, health care, to environment. I am willing to pay more tax to help out others in need because I am fortunate enough to attend public schools and enjoy the life I am having. I do not understand why people, more specifically the Republicans, do not have the same level of compassion and level-headedness. Last but not least, let's pin both Ryan and Trump's names to this so-called "health" act, just like how the Republicans pin Obama's to ACA. If this "health" act is going down in history as one of the most disgusting political ploys, I hope both Ryan and Trump go down with it as well.
16
Paying your taxes does not connote virtue. Try not paying them and see what happens.
You can hold yourself responsible for "the sustainability of our society" and demonstrate "compassion and level-headedness" without paying taxes. Give it a try!
You can hold yourself responsible for "the sustainability of our society" and demonstrate "compassion and level-headedness" without paying taxes. Give it a try!
No wonder Trump objects to naming the GOP plan Trumpcare. Perhaps a more appropriate substitute would be "Trump Doesn't Care."
5
Yeah, I hate the Individual Mandate that forces everyone to buy auto insurance.
Government overreach. Taking away my freedom. Why should I have to pay for something I don't want right now. I'll buy it if I ever have an accident.
Government overreach. Taking away my freedom. Why should I have to pay for something I don't want right now. I'll buy it if I ever have an accident.
14
Good luck with that one.
No one is forcing you to buy or drive a car.
It was sarcasm
So how much will Paul Ryan have to pay vs his parents? Assuming they were covered under Obamacare and now will be covered under Ryancare.
Resign, Ryan! Take your books by Ayn Rand with you.
12
This could never happen, of course, but what if they had Medicare for all those 50 and over, and a marketplace plan for those younger (and therefore healthier?)
2
At the very least, the Republicans should allow physician assisted suicide- which is the only humane option for older people who get sick without healthcare. We do it for our pets-
5
Be careful what you wish for....
Looks like the television commercial (depicting the impact of Republican healthcare policy) showing Republicans pushing a senior citizen in a wheelchair toward a cliff and pushing her off the cliff was ACCURATE!
What will the 2018 congressional impact be for Republicans? Will trump voters wake-up and start voting in their own best interest?
What will the 2018 congressional impact be for Republicans? Will trump voters wake-up and start voting in their own best interest?
3