In large urban areas with poor public transportation options people can be as limited to the neighborhood where they live and are most comfortable as more rural people. Early in my teaching career, I often asked my middle school students how many of them traveled to the other parts of our sprawling urban region for sports, for movies, for family or for shopping, etc. Many of my students had never been more than a few blocks from where they lived. Eventually large shopping malls with good transportation access changed some patterns of behaviour as did the need to get to where the jobs are located. Unfortunately anti-public transportation policies of Republicans at the local, state and federal level continue to restrict so many opportunities for education, jobs and cultural experiences of all people--urban and rural.
The urban vs rural conflict is evident at the state level when rural Republican legislators consistently oppose funding for public transportation in urban areas. In order for the "conversations" suggested by Mr. Appiah to take place, people have to be able to meet in person. Conversations by internet seem only to increase differences when people live in different places to begin with. The funding for access to broadband is limited in rural areas and expensive through cable monopolies in urban areas.
The urban vs rural conflict is evident at the state level when rural Republican legislators consistently oppose funding for public transportation in urban areas. In order for the "conversations" suggested by Mr. Appiah to take place, people have to be able to meet in person. Conversations by internet seem only to increase differences when people live in different places to begin with. The funding for access to broadband is limited in rural areas and expensive through cable monopolies in urban areas.
3
"Education turns mirrors into windows" goes the quote, and the same could be said for experiences of all kinds that bring us into contact with people, places, and ideas outside our own. Liberal and conservative may be different not just in political views, but in the range of experiences we had had outside the "Primary Discourse" of our families and birth communities. If we are to make the kinds of fundamental changes needed to create a better world for all people and all beings, it may be that education and broad life exposure are the keys to healing divisions and promoting understanding and respect.
4
It might be more appropriate to inquire:
1. How many generations of your family have finished college?
2. How many generations of your family attend church/synagogue regularly?
3. How many generations of your family have been professionals or business owners?
4. How many divorces are there n your immediate family?
5. How many generations of your family have been settled in America?
1. How many generations of your family have finished college?
2. How many generations of your family attend church/synagogue regularly?
3. How many generations of your family have been professionals or business owners?
4. How many divorces are there n your immediate family?
5. How many generations of your family have been settled in America?
2
I travelled widely in my youth. For many years, I lived in in many communities around the world in some of the grungiest neighbourhoods side by side with some of the poorest, most deprived and most violent.
On a personal level, I still talk to everyone. I tend to like and am interested in every person I meet. And I will help anyone in need, no matter what terrible things they may have done, no matter whether they are a friend, family member or a stranger I have just met.
Respect? That's another thing entirely. Respect has to be won. Because I know so many people very well, because of how much I talk to them, I know things about their past that often make it difficult to respect them.
Humans are weak, cowardly and selfish. Many humans are not very intelligent. I understand this. I recognise that they are just like me.
Nevertheless, I don't respect most persons I know well for the simple reason that they don't deserve respect.
On a personal level, I still talk to everyone. I tend to like and am interested in every person I meet. And I will help anyone in need, no matter what terrible things they may have done, no matter whether they are a friend, family member or a stranger I have just met.
Respect? That's another thing entirely. Respect has to be won. Because I know so many people very well, because of how much I talk to them, I know things about their past that often make it difficult to respect them.
Humans are weak, cowardly and selfish. Many humans are not very intelligent. I understand this. I recognise that they are just like me.
Nevertheless, I don't respect most persons I know well for the simple reason that they don't deserve respect.
3
Katherine Cramer's "The Politics of Resentment" and Arlie Russell Hochschild's "Strangers in Their Own Land" are two excellent studies that reinforce the concept that your Primary Discourse (the immediate close family or community you grew up in) has enormous impact on how you see the world (and how you vote). Unless you impact that primary discourse with other life experiences you will continue to see and interpret the world through that initial discourse. In both these studies rural populations saw the city and its diversity, its wealth and its education in a negative lens. It was where government was located and government monies were spent. Consequently cutting back big government was and is a comfortable position. Conservative politicians and political parties have taken advantage of that and garnered Rural Americans' votes.
Interestingly while the citizens of many western states are for less big government this perspective tends to come our of their "Settler Perspective" of the individual making one's way without interference from the government.
If three rural states had not impacted the election we wouldn't be discussing this topic.
Interestingly while the citizens of many western states are for less big government this perspective tends to come our of their "Settler Perspective" of the individual making one's way without interference from the government.
If three rural states had not impacted the election we wouldn't be discussing this topic.
4
@DugeThank God for those 3 rural states...And FYI, there are ALOT moe Trump supporters than just 3 rural states. Heck, even Minnesota, the most communist state in the midwest, almost went for Trump.
Looking at any subject from multiple angles will result in better decisions.
That is why biracial children score higher on tests (income held constant). That is why bilingual children score higher on tests (income held constant). That is why college students with both liberal arts & STEM training excel. That is why companies with Boards of Directors that are diverse have higher stock price performance.
It ultimately comes down to curiosity. Those who are curious and want to learn new things and try new experiences will excel. Those in society who are not curious, who do not stretch their comfort zones and are mentally lazy will spend their entire lives sitting in small town America, twiddling their thumbs and blaming others for their boring unproductive lives.
That is why biracial children score higher on tests (income held constant). That is why bilingual children score higher on tests (income held constant). That is why college students with both liberal arts & STEM training excel. That is why companies with Boards of Directors that are diverse have higher stock price performance.
It ultimately comes down to curiosity. Those who are curious and want to learn new things and try new experiences will excel. Those in society who are not curious, who do not stretch their comfort zones and are mentally lazy will spend their entire lives sitting in small town America, twiddling their thumbs and blaming others for their boring unproductive lives.
4
Looking at any subject from multiple angles will result in better decisions.
That is why biracial children scare higher on tests (income held constant). That is why bilingual children scare higher on tests (income held constant). That is why college students with both liberal arts & STEM training excel. That is why companies with Boards of Directors that are diverse have higher stock price performance.
It ultimately comes down to curiosity. Those who are curious and want to learn new things and try new experiences will excel. Those in society who are not curious, who do not stretch their comfort zones and are mentally lazy will spend their entire lives sitting in small town America, twiddling their thumbs and blaming others for their boring unproductive lives.
That is why biracial children scare higher on tests (income held constant). That is why bilingual children scare higher on tests (income held constant). That is why college students with both liberal arts & STEM training excel. That is why companies with Boards of Directors that are diverse have higher stock price performance.
It ultimately comes down to curiosity. Those who are curious and want to learn new things and try new experiences will excel. Those in society who are not curious, who do not stretch their comfort zones and are mentally lazy will spend their entire lives sitting in small town America, twiddling their thumbs and blaming others for their boring unproductive lives.
There were some in the African American intellectual community who wondered, if after formal segregation ended, did the best and the brightest move out & into middle/upper class white communities, leaving behind the weakest members of the tribe. I think the same is happening to rural white communities throughout Trump country. The best and the brightest leave, either to the sunbelt or to more progressive states, leaving behind the weakest members of the tribe. Who, in turn, look towards an authoritarian figure to solve all of their problems because they can't really fend for themselves. I don't think exposing them to Indian food will help matters.
2
Cosmopolitanism. What a nice word for not-hick. Please check my address. I have been here for 15 YEARS, due to husbands career. If I could turn back time, I would have divorced, instead of " living " here.
Imagine the worst, then double it. Horrible climate, NO scenic or natural beauty, worst economic picture in the country ( Obama , ha-ha ). Most people have never lived elsewhere, except for military service. Jesus and hating " libruls" are the main hobbies. Fox News playing 24/7, everywhere. A dust filled wasteland. The only ray of sunshine is frequent vacations, to Seattle. To women ( especially ) : life is too short to live in a place that you hate. It's not worth it. The saddest thing I could imagine would be to die here.
Imagine the worst, then double it. Horrible climate, NO scenic or natural beauty, worst economic picture in the country ( Obama , ha-ha ). Most people have never lived elsewhere, except for military service. Jesus and hating " libruls" are the main hobbies. Fox News playing 24/7, everywhere. A dust filled wasteland. The only ray of sunshine is frequent vacations, to Seattle. To women ( especially ) : life is too short to live in a place that you hate. It's not worth it. The saddest thing I could imagine would be to die here.
20
Phyliss, I don't know if your comment is truth or humor. If it's the former, I feel sorry that you appear to have "lost" your life. What a bleak existence you describe. My condolences. If your comment was meant to be humorous, then you've done a good job, because from humor we can all learn a great deal.
1
Almost as bad in Tennessee, but at least I live in a blue city!
2
Nope, she's not being humorous. Everything she wrote is true. I live about 90 mile south of her town and it's exactly as she describes. Terrible weather. Brutal climate. No culture. No scenery. It's even hard to garden here. I can't wait to retire and get out.
2
I think it largely comes down to a matter of trust. Some people are comfortable only with members of their own group (which can be defined large or small depending on the circumstance), and some are more willing to give the benefit of the doubt regarding trust to individuals outside of their own group. I think if you could measure people's trust in this way, you would see a strong correlation to voting patterns. Of course, exposure to individuals outside ones group generally results in building trust.
2
Game meat is generally leaner than the beef from an over fed cow but at the same time high in protein and minerals and those who cling to guns for hunting are more likely to be members of the NRA and the NRA is closely tied to the Republican party. So it makes sense a majority of hunters are most likely Republicans. Ordering vindaloo is becoming a global trend not influenced by political affiliation but by multicultural multi cuisine spirit of Americans. Increasing number of Americans are driven towards spicy food and hotter and hotter peppers are defining the spicyness. In the coastal and urban areas of the country their is wider choice of ethnic foods and less so in the rural areas of America where hunting is more common and that may some how give an impression that food choices shapes the voting pattern but that is just a coincidence.
3
This article presumes the urban, cosmopolitan hipster voted for Clinton, as between Clinton and Trump only, and the rubes in fly-over country voted for Trump, as between Clinton and Trump only. I live in the Midwest and voted for Obama both times. Although I live in the Midwest, by education, income, travel, hobbies, foreign friends, news sources and the other variables considered in the referenced study, I should have voted for Clinton. I didn't. I couldn't stand just about everything about her. Nor did I vote for Trump. I cast a protest vote, voting third-party for the first time ever--and I have been voting since 1976. I guess even the educated urban professional reaches a point where it is impossible to rationalize continuing to vote for mediocre Democrats. I guess Republicans felt the same way this time around. Oh, I am now an Independent (unaffiliated with any political party), and I intend to die that way.
5
I'm always astonished at how few Americans travel overseas or domestically by comparison to Australians, Canadians, Europeans, et al. I think it's difficult to be afraid of "socialism" and many of the other right-wing fears, when you see the standard of living, quality of life and lack of fear in so many other countries. It doesn't help when you believe that everyone is going to hell, except for your small "chosen" religious group.
We could learn so much from others but sadly even those Americans who do travel, often stay at American hotels or go on American tours & cruises.
My wife and I are doing lots of house swapping and learning so much.
We could learn so much from others but sadly even those Americans who do travel, often stay at American hotels or go on American tours & cruises.
My wife and I are doing lots of house swapping and learning so much.
15
Well said. The right wing triggers of tax and socialism are put to rest when you actually live in other countries. You realize that on virtually every issue that affects quality of life (medical, education, infrastructure, arts, transport) the US is down the list and falling. The Trump voters have been had – and most don't even know it yet.
8
So Canada and Mexico are no longer part of North America, making the US "basically" a continent, which explains our lack of travel within, let alone outside of, our own country?
And Australia actually IS a continent. Yet the travel. Huh. Interesting.
My brother, a college educated professional pilot, voted for Trump. I have been unable to get my head around why... but now, maybe it's possible to understand. Bro has always been an unadventurous eater. Any food that's unusual turns him off, always has. Well.
7
Here's a conundrum not covered in this article. I have an in-law who is white, a West coast 'elite' and he is a staunch Trump supporter. He lives in a million dollar home and has a successful business. His wife is half Korean. He has traveled to Europe and travels frequently to Hawaii where he eats sushi in a Japanese restaurant. Yet, he thinks any news not presented by Fox, Hannity, or O'Reilly is 'fake news'. He really wants Trump to build the wall between the US and Mexico to keep his family safe from all those rapist, drug-dealing, welfare taking illegal immigrants. Although most of his laborers are immigrants from Mexico. He doesn't hunt and he doesn't hail from Appalachia or any other rural town. So, this article is just simply an entertaining read to be taken with a grain of salt.
2
Not really so much of a conundrum. Those of the ultra-moneyed classes tend to be very conservative -- sticking to what's tried and true is often viewed as a form of protection against the great unknown.
Look at Trump and his consorts...they all fit into that mold.
Look at Trump and his consorts...they all fit into that mold.
3
I can understand the top 1% voting for Trump to save taxes, particularly if they are old, have no children and don't care about the environment. I can't understand the former middle-class who have lost their jobs to Automation, thinking Trump or a wall will help them. Don't get me started on the evangelical hypocrites. Sad!
9
@Frank
It's the PROMISES! -- you heard him.
He's the "ONLY one" who can fix these problems.
He'll re-open mines (and kill the environment in the meantime).
He'll get those pesky companies who want to move south of the border to reconsider (next photo-op).
He'll put a chicken in every pot, and a new car in every garage (American-made, of course).
And then, he'll walk on water!
And guess what? -- they believed him.
It's the PROMISES! -- you heard him.
He's the "ONLY one" who can fix these problems.
He'll re-open mines (and kill the environment in the meantime).
He'll get those pesky companies who want to move south of the border to reconsider (next photo-op).
He'll put a chicken in every pot, and a new car in every garage (American-made, of course).
And then, he'll walk on water!
And guess what? -- they believed him.
7
I grew up in a fading New England mill town. In a high school graduating class of 330 students, about 30 went on to college. We left and we're never going back. Many of us live outside the US, or travel internationally for business.
At University I met other students with hillbilly roots. Same sentiment. "We changed; they didn't." I'm a "nonhillbilly" now, but I started out in life with the potential to be one. I fought that fate from the get go. "Moving to opportunity" on my own initiative.
So I accept, half of Ms Vavreck's argument: if you have the chance to meet new people, life generally improves. The other half of my family tree is in flyover country (Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma), so I don't lack for understanding or compassion for non-cosmopolitan, non-elites.
I find little to celebrate in their closed off view of the world, and it is not clear to me what's to be gained by thinking "more like a hillbilly". I'm not intolerant of, nor feel superior to, Trump's core demographic, I just don't understand Ms Vavreck's "I'm OK, Your're OK" prescription for amity. Rural folk, just don't seem to like city people.
At University I met other students with hillbilly roots. Same sentiment. "We changed; they didn't." I'm a "nonhillbilly" now, but I started out in life with the potential to be one. I fought that fate from the get go. "Moving to opportunity" on my own initiative.
So I accept, half of Ms Vavreck's argument: if you have the chance to meet new people, life generally improves. The other half of my family tree is in flyover country (Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma), so I don't lack for understanding or compassion for non-cosmopolitan, non-elites.
I find little to celebrate in their closed off view of the world, and it is not clear to me what's to be gained by thinking "more like a hillbilly". I'm not intolerant of, nor feel superior to, Trump's core demographic, I just don't understand Ms Vavreck's "I'm OK, Your're OK" prescription for amity. Rural folk, just don't seem to like city people.
10
Income has some effect but who you choose to associate with may have a bigger one. Stereotypes seem to exclude ' you my good friend that I know' Whereas it is easier to harbor negative feelings about people you don't know personally even if they come from the same group.
Seems to me, if you are traveling to other countries or eating out at other than fast food places, you have some disposable income and that might be the deciding factor. Those living from paycheck to paycheck do not have the luxury of cosmopolitanism, whether they desire it or not.
6
The rich donors to the republican party have significant disposable income, and then some.
8
I love Indian and Asian Food, have been to Africa several times and also go hunting. I guess that may explain why I couldn't stand either presidential candidate in the last election. Is nobody like me?
1
I would give Professor Vavreck's analysis an "I" for incomplete. Yes, there are cultural and educational differences between Trump (rural) and Clinton (urban) voters. But this does not adequately explain the animosity between the two groups.
The simple fact of the matter is politicians---primarily Republicans---with the generous assistance of Big Oil, Big Tobacco, the Chamber of Commerce, etc. have stoked these divisions and ginned up anti-government sentiment in the rural areas to get Republicans elected. It's been merely a continuation of Nixon's "Southern Strategy" but pushed one small step further. Trump understood or, more likely, intuited this better than his Republican opponents.
The simple fact of the matter is politicians---primarily Republicans---with the generous assistance of Big Oil, Big Tobacco, the Chamber of Commerce, etc. have stoked these divisions and ginned up anti-government sentiment in the rural areas to get Republicans elected. It's been merely a continuation of Nixon's "Southern Strategy" but pushed one small step further. Trump understood or, more likely, intuited this better than his Republican opponents.
15
WmC: Thank you for reminding us of the "Southern Strategy".......race baiting all the way to the White House.
1
Been to India several times and no one has ever heard of Vindaloo :)
2
I agree with the focus of the article.
Under under our skin, we're all the same. My parents taught in the medical school at a university in a religious state in the West. My parents had left religion in high school.
We traveled a lot in the U.S. by car to get to scientific meetings where my father spoke. My family of origin -- my parents and siblings -- and my husband and children are all Democrats. My few dozen cousins are mostly Republican.
Many grad students and med students from around the world came to our house, when I was small, from countries such as Burma (now Myanmar), Japan, Chile, Peru, Greece, India, The Netherlands and Poland. The food, the dress and the languages fascinated me. They often brought gifts a little girl would enjoy -- usually a doll in a costume from their country. I loved these dolls just as I loved the students who gave them to me.
I've lived in two countries, two Canadian cities, 4 U.S. cities, and have been to 47 states, 6 Canadian provinces and 18 countries, including Australia. (That's really not very many).
My food preferences were limited until I was out of my teens, but that was because I refused to eat anything but beef, potatoes, creamed corn, apple juice, Tang and chocolate. At 20, my palate opened up, and now I eat mostly plants and dairy, but love rich food on holidays.
We all want and deserve a life without war, but with sufficient food and shelter, and enough love and family to become the best person we can be.
Under under our skin, we're all the same. My parents taught in the medical school at a university in a religious state in the West. My parents had left religion in high school.
We traveled a lot in the U.S. by car to get to scientific meetings where my father spoke. My family of origin -- my parents and siblings -- and my husband and children are all Democrats. My few dozen cousins are mostly Republican.
Many grad students and med students from around the world came to our house, when I was small, from countries such as Burma (now Myanmar), Japan, Chile, Peru, Greece, India, The Netherlands and Poland. The food, the dress and the languages fascinated me. They often brought gifts a little girl would enjoy -- usually a doll in a costume from their country. I loved these dolls just as I loved the students who gave them to me.
I've lived in two countries, two Canadian cities, 4 U.S. cities, and have been to 47 states, 6 Canadian provinces and 18 countries, including Australia. (That's really not very many).
My food preferences were limited until I was out of my teens, but that was because I refused to eat anything but beef, potatoes, creamed corn, apple juice, Tang and chocolate. At 20, my palate opened up, and now I eat mostly plants and dairy, but love rich food on holidays.
We all want and deserve a life without war, but with sufficient food and shelter, and enough love and family to become the best person we can be.
4
I voted for Obama and Sanders, then, having no choice voted for Clinton. I haven't traveled at all in years and years and in my small town, other than Mexican, there are no ethnic restaurants and merely a handful of non white people, most who are Tea Party. I don't like group activities and never did but have since age 24 been active in environmental causes. I was born and raised in a very conservative town where all but few were Republicans. So, why my progressive attitudes even now at age 81. Simple. I love to read, I prefer foreign movies, I use the internet for research, I find people my age to be uncomfortable with change. I cannot stand the Republican party and I do not trust the establishment of the Democratic party.
18
I am amazed at all the rancor on this thread, especially from the right, though there is enough liberal privilege on display to consternate me as well. I have lived in rural areas that valued individuality and diversity (Vermont, Montana) as much as big cities, despite the fact that the population was generally white, Christian and working class. I have lived in deeply religious areas of the country (the deep South) and encountered intolerance, but I have also always enjoyed getting to know people from across a wide spectrum of cultural, political, socio-economic and religious vies. What scares me now is that there's such obvious resistance to what it is that actually does make the US great (and never went away): diversity and inclusion. What is the only school reform that has a proven track record? Integration. What is the safest economic hedge against an uncertain future? Diversification. Where does the future lie? With tolerance and diversity.
Venison curry is great. So is chili, so is a stir fry, and, yes, so is a good old fashioned stew, burgoo or burger. Take it from me; I've cooked them all.
Venison curry is great. So is chili, so is a stir fry, and, yes, so is a good old fashioned stew, burgoo or burger. Take it from me; I've cooked them all.
21
Why amazed? ---There is always rancor from the right, along with a ready line of reasons and excuses why....even when it comes to food.
4
This is interesting in that JD Vance( Hillbilly Elegy) married an Indian American at Yale Law school, and said in his book that his grandma would have been proud to meet her.
On a serious note, I have lived in Morgantown, West Virginia, and found that folks there were absolutely OK with Indian, Chinese, Japanese or other cuisines. My experience is that once you get to know people one on one, our brethren in so called 'red states' are as friendly and curious about other cultures, as anyone else. In fact I found the elites in Manhattan or Boston to be less interested in how their fellow citizens were doing, and more interested in how their peer groups in other countries were doing.
On a serious note, I have lived in Morgantown, West Virginia, and found that folks there were absolutely OK with Indian, Chinese, Japanese or other cuisines. My experience is that once you get to know people one on one, our brethren in so called 'red states' are as friendly and curious about other cultures, as anyone else. In fact I found the elites in Manhattan or Boston to be less interested in how their fellow citizens were doing, and more interested in how their peer groups in other countries were doing.
2
True. Person to person, folks are just fine. Interested, engaged, kindly.
It's when we're talking about policies that might help people you don't know that things get nasty. Or even specific decisions -- many red states excuse the most blatant police shootings of unarmed black people, often at a safe distance, presumably on the grounds that they are unlikely to know the victim.
It's when we're talking about policies that might help people you don't know that things get nasty. Or even specific decisions -- many red states excuse the most blatant police shootings of unarmed black people, often at a safe distance, presumably on the grounds that they are unlikely to know the victim.
3
And JD Vance lives in .....SAN FRANCISCO!!!!!
My Bride, of 40 years, and I have traveled extensively, across both oceans, almost never eat out while in the States, my Bride cooks far better than any Chef, we have tried, and far more diversely. We are retired now and keep up with the news. We voted for President trump as the "ONLY" viable possibility in a paultry and corrupt field. As a non-politician, he is doing remarkably well, with few "Politicans" to misguide him.
1
Just connecting some dots, but one may ask how the venison eaters reconcile proposed cuts in environmental regulations with deer that eat and drink in the wild. Do they want to eat contaminated meat?
6
I have socialized with Republicans, but we do not share any values and their beliefs are alien to me, the way German Nazis' believes would be alien to me if I were in Germany in 1933. They believe that the poor and uninsured should be left to die and they pray to money and greed. There is no common ground. That doesn't mean I wish them ill, it just means I want them to be defeated politically and stay that way, for the good of the country and the world.
16
If you were in Nazi Germany in 1933, chances are you would be swept along with it like everyone else, because not to be, would mean risking imprisonment, torture, or death.
2
65 million Americans are on my side vs. 62 million on the enemy side. Certainly we will see who is victorious.
1
@Debs
To be quite honest, I don't know what your point is, or what you're trying to say -- but the last time I looked, the war ended in 1945, so history has already dictated who was victorious, and we are no longer enemies.
To be quite honest, I don't know what your point is, or what you're trying to say -- but the last time I looked, the war ended in 1945, so history has already dictated who was victorious, and we are no longer enemies.
I'm a vindaloo and venison eater. Shot and butchered deer; prepared vindaloo with someone from Kolkata. Very few people have really lived in both of these worlds.
9
Do you want an Oscar???
1
Ha! The performance of "passing" in two cultures!
I can't begin to explain the disconnect between the groups of people in these two worlds, what it feels like. How each reduces the other to caricatures.
I can't begin to explain the disconnect between the groups of people in these two worlds, what it feels like. How each reduces the other to caricatures.
1
Because of the headline, it is natural to think that you are one of few. My liberal son who is very fond of Indian, Thai, Ethiopian and most other "exotic" food that he has tried just bagged his first deer (and is eating the venison). He learned to hunt from his cousin, my nephew, who is as NRA and Trump-loving as possible. Based on the amount of discussion of difficult Thanksgiving conversations after the election, there are probably a lot of us who know both sides. The author did not claim that large a split between the two sides.
1
For the last 10 years we have been driving out to the Midwest several times a year- through Ohio, Indiana, Illinois. One year we stayed in a motel in Wauseon Ohio. We needed dinner and when we looked through all the restaurant menus left in the motel room, we saw our choices were fried American food, fried Mexican food or pizza- even the green beans shown on the menus were deep-fat fried- and booze. Lots and lots of it. We were travelling with a diabetic son and after a quick discussion drove to the local WalMart and bought some healthy food to cook in the room. We were really surprised at the variety of foods available at WalMart- na'an, jasmine rice, udon noodles, bulgar wheat, frozen Indian food, healthy foods from Kashi etc- so it seems the foods are available but certain people are just not willing to try any. And I don't know how you can encourage people to be open to new things if they are determined not to be. I feel sorry for people who are afraid to leave the boxes they have chosen to live in.
11
I am one of those "hillbillies" who, like Vance, made it out of the woods. People who grew up in small rural places as we did feel a deep connection to friends family and place that urbanites appear to lack. You need to understand that is why so few of "those people" don't just "pick up and move", as urbanites suggest.
It is mildly ironic that commenters here who identify as cosmopolitan because they have been to foreign countries appear to have little first hand familiarity with rural places in this country. Knowledge of such places appears to come to them second hand, from media.
If provincialism is looking down one's nose at someone else about whom you know nothing, then these commenters are provincial in their own cosmopolitan way. Maybe some of those commenters would consider taking a vacation to a small town in the Blue Ridge for a change.
Much of rural political conservatism comes from Fox News and right wing media generally. That is new since I left many years ago. I don't know how that can be changed.
It is mildly ironic that commenters here who identify as cosmopolitan because they have been to foreign countries appear to have little first hand familiarity with rural places in this country. Knowledge of such places appears to come to them second hand, from media.
If provincialism is looking down one's nose at someone else about whom you know nothing, then these commenters are provincial in their own cosmopolitan way. Maybe some of those commenters would consider taking a vacation to a small town in the Blue Ridge for a change.
Much of rural political conservatism comes from Fox News and right wing media generally. That is new since I left many years ago. I don't know how that can be changed.
42
@Nightwatch: "People who grew up in small rural places as we did feel a deep connection to friends family and place that urbanites appear to lack."
Oh, you are so, so wrong about that! I was born in NYC and have lived here all my life. What makes you think "deep connection" only comes from living in the middle of nowhere? On the contrary, some of the closest and most supportive and stable families I know are in NYC. Some of the deepest friendships you will ever see are among people in NYC.
I assure you that I am as deeply connected to New York City as you are to your home town. I can't imagine wanting to live anywhere other than NYC, even though I've traveled extensively throughout the USA & abroad, and even though I have family members who live in small mid-western locations (most of which are college towns).
Oh, you are so, so wrong about that! I was born in NYC and have lived here all my life. What makes you think "deep connection" only comes from living in the middle of nowhere? On the contrary, some of the closest and most supportive and stable families I know are in NYC. Some of the deepest friendships you will ever see are among people in NYC.
I assure you that I am as deeply connected to New York City as you are to your home town. I can't imagine wanting to live anywhere other than NYC, even though I've traveled extensively throughout the USA & abroad, and even though I have family members who live in small mid-western locations (most of which are college towns).
5
From what I've experienced, this provincialism works both ways. Being called a "libtard" or "snowflake" -- or worse, by people who think they know me based on my profession, level of education, or zip code doesn't make me inclined to cut people who reduce me to a stereotype much slack. Recognizing this knee-jerk reaction in myself, I do try to put myself in the shoes of others and understand their drives, motivations, needs, etc. Based on what I see around me, though, I am not very hopeful that many of the people I struggle to understand are making the same efforts to understand me. In particular, every time I hear the peculiar phrase "real American" it has been exclusively by someone right of center in reference to themselves to the exclusion of anyone who sees the world differently. That phrase alone is so loaded and so offensively reductive that I cannot give an "oh poor you! No one is trying hard enough to understand you so no wonder you're resentful" hall pass to the user. And that goes 100-fold for any politician using that phrase to exploit that divide.
1
Your last para says it all; but before them we had nasty racism in the South and rural areas of the Midwest, West and not so nasty racism in US cities outside those areas of our country. With Integration in my adult lifetime, many of our younger people in many areas have adjusted to non-whites & people with different backgrounds & ideas. We still have a long way to go.
This fits right in with my hypothesis that politics is driven by emotions, and for conservatives, that is a fear of strangers based on the belief that people, at heart, have ill intent.
But humans need to cooperate to survive (try living alone with a flint knife), and so conservatives must look for similar people to join up with, and dissimilar people must be kept at bay. This is the root of tribalism and Nationalism, and explains their support for strong borders, guns, and law and order; the tendency to have a larger right amygdala, which is responsible for processing fear-based information; and greater support for Christianity and its belief in the sinfulness of man.
In contrast, liberal fears are of separation and isolation, and they are sneered at as not being individuals able to stand on their own two feet. Their weakness is that, in trusting others, cooperation is vulnerable to free-loaders and bad actors.
These are extremes, but the fear/trust dichotomy explains today’s politics very well. For the future, travel and the internet is allowing us to see others as people, not ogres, and I hope that we can move to where the larger group which which we identify is not the tribe, but humanity.
But humans need to cooperate to survive (try living alone with a flint knife), and so conservatives must look for similar people to join up with, and dissimilar people must be kept at bay. This is the root of tribalism and Nationalism, and explains their support for strong borders, guns, and law and order; the tendency to have a larger right amygdala, which is responsible for processing fear-based information; and greater support for Christianity and its belief in the sinfulness of man.
In contrast, liberal fears are of separation and isolation, and they are sneered at as not being individuals able to stand on their own two feet. Their weakness is that, in trusting others, cooperation is vulnerable to free-loaders and bad actors.
These are extremes, but the fear/trust dichotomy explains today’s politics very well. For the future, travel and the internet is allowing us to see others as people, not ogres, and I hope that we can move to where the larger group which which we identify is not the tribe, but humanity.
11
This article makes a lot of sense to me. I urge anyone who has the resources to do so to travel or take brief sojourns to different parts of the U.S, to think of this type of travel as potentially as interesting and foreign as many other places, but with the added benefit of speaking the same language as the people one encounters, and all the conversations that can easily be had.
I get this opportunity to cross all sorts of class, cultural, and political lines whenever I visit my mom in the Midwest. It has helped me to talk with Trump voters there who are otherwise lovely people. I think it is interesting and helpful to my fellow conversationalists too. We have not changed one another's' politics, but there arises a sense that we share a country and that our fates are intertwined, and that we want to treat one another well.
Recently, I have started tutoring a Midwestwern high schooler long distance, and I think the experience with her and her family will probably be mutually enlightening. Next time I visit, I hope to get a lesson in gun safety from the grandmother at the local shooting range. Maybe we will try some non-American food afterwards, maybe not. But the conversations we share have already helped me to a broader understanding of the variety of life within the Unitrd States.
I get this opportunity to cross all sorts of class, cultural, and political lines whenever I visit my mom in the Midwest. It has helped me to talk with Trump voters there who are otherwise lovely people. I think it is interesting and helpful to my fellow conversationalists too. We have not changed one another's' politics, but there arises a sense that we share a country and that our fates are intertwined, and that we want to treat one another well.
Recently, I have started tutoring a Midwestwern high schooler long distance, and I think the experience with her and her family will probably be mutually enlightening. Next time I visit, I hope to get a lesson in gun safety from the grandmother at the local shooting range. Maybe we will try some non-American food afterwards, maybe not. But the conversations we share have already helped me to a broader understanding of the variety of life within the Unitrd States.
9
Joe Bageant laid it all out years ago in his book "Deer Hunting with Jesus." Wish more people had paid attention to that great and good man.
5
Interesting but not surprising. The hunter issue is closest to our family (we all are hunters) as are almost all my neighbors. Furthermore, hunting is non partisan out here and being a hunter has almost nothing to do with political leanings. Alas, Trump didn't carry the state in the primaries and didn't do well in most of the red flyover country. All he got was the votes in the general election. As to travel et. al., that is where the real breakdown happens. Some 60% out here have never even vacationed or traveled more than one state away. A paltry 8% have traveled outside the US (Canada and Mexico excepted). The vast majority of residents have no basis of comparison with other cultures (e.g. California, New York, let alone a truly foreign country) so their viewpoints are insular, narrow and unchanging since the 1950's.
9
Interesting that Trump is the candidate who most appealed to voters who never travel abroad or hunt. He is from Manhattan, had an upper-crust WASP upbringing, was baptized at Marble Collegiate Church, and lived on Fifth Avenue. I guess it was because he order steak well done with ketchup.
33
I made the same comment hours ago, but took it one step further by noting Trump didn't even win here.
Oh -- and he's from Queens, not Manahttan.
Oh -- and he's from Queens, not Manahttan.
13
Seeing other parts of the world, how people do thing there, and that they are still fulfilled is a huge part in understanding there are many paths to happiness. It is in not a binary thing. Once you understand and accept that, I think it is hard to be so insular. On a similar level the same can be said about someone who spends time in a larger diverse metropolis like NYC vs someone who spends their whole life in a mostly homogeneous tiny town somewhere. But it is certainly magnified when you travel internationally. There is a reason most population centers lean Democrat. In order to survive and get along with people that are different than you, you have to have a certainly level of tolerance and acceptance that there is more than one right way to do things.
9
What a lot of nonsense.
My "ruralish" area gets a lot of exposure to people from other countries. We get over 2,000,000 visitors a year from all over the world come to our dunes & beaches
Our experience with "diversity" touted by the NYT & its readers is not good..
We get a lot of visitors from down-state - the Muslim communities near Detroit & Ann Arbor. They come up here with the women covered head to toe & even some with the bedsheets covering all but their eyes. The Muslim men scream at & berate non-Muslim women on the beaches who are in swimwear or shorts . Oh yeah your 'diversity' is just so good (not!) I do NOT want to be around them & do NOT want them near me. Their attitudes are NOT "enriching" but oppressive & even dangerous to women
BTW this is where Sebelius (Obama's HHS Secretary) has her summer home. Guess she doesn't value 'diversity' enough to have her summer home in the middle of the inner city in Detroit.
As to the stupid theory about food.... I do not want seaweed or fish (Japanese) & the Indian food is just too complicated to make with hard-to-source ingredients. We do a lot of Mediterranean type cooking - baba, feta, 7-spices etc & routinely hit the middle eastern grocery in Ann Arbor.
And no I do NOT want to live in an urban area & now can avoid it. Too much traffic, too much congestion, too much crime (we don't lock doors) too much pollution, yuck! Anything stores do not have here I can get with a click of a keyboard.
My "ruralish" area gets a lot of exposure to people from other countries. We get over 2,000,000 visitors a year from all over the world come to our dunes & beaches
Our experience with "diversity" touted by the NYT & its readers is not good..
We get a lot of visitors from down-state - the Muslim communities near Detroit & Ann Arbor. They come up here with the women covered head to toe & even some with the bedsheets covering all but their eyes. The Muslim men scream at & berate non-Muslim women on the beaches who are in swimwear or shorts . Oh yeah your 'diversity' is just so good (not!) I do NOT want to be around them & do NOT want them near me. Their attitudes are NOT "enriching" but oppressive & even dangerous to women
BTW this is where Sebelius (Obama's HHS Secretary) has her summer home. Guess she doesn't value 'diversity' enough to have her summer home in the middle of the inner city in Detroit.
As to the stupid theory about food.... I do not want seaweed or fish (Japanese) & the Indian food is just too complicated to make with hard-to-source ingredients. We do a lot of Mediterranean type cooking - baba, feta, 7-spices etc & routinely hit the middle eastern grocery in Ann Arbor.
And no I do NOT want to live in an urban area & now can avoid it. Too much traffic, too much congestion, too much crime (we don't lock doors) too much pollution, yuck! Anything stores do not have here I can get with a click of a keyboard.
9
Actually, I think your comment proved the author's case.
13
Tell ya what. Your expierence with Muslims is no worse than a "white boy " pool party at a Vegas hotel. My experience with Muslims, who, by the way are as varied Christianity, I have never witnessed screaming and abusive behavior.
18
For some of us, it is just the opposite. I live in Manhattan, and although I do not like the stratification of ethnicity and class, I have few issues with diversity.
We own an NYC condo in a full-service doorman building, and our floor of 10 apartment is home to a diverse range of people, Canadian (female, working at the UN), a middle eastern couple, East Asians (immigrant and domestic, young and senior), Jews (NYC is home to the largest number), Indian (doctor at NYU), as well as some White people, like me. Our building staff is largely Hispanic and African-American, but also Asian. The super originated from the Caribbean, and the managers have been Hispanic.
- I work in financial technology, and my coworkers are often from India, Russia and/or Eastern European states (Romaine, Ukraine), Ireland, Japan, Ecuador, and the US, with some of the latter working remotely from South Dakota and North Carolina, and the our team includes African-Americans as well.Sadly, it is disproportionately male.
- The businesses we enlist locally are often run by ethnic groups, however stereotypical, with Asian dry cleaners, household cleaners that are Eastern European and/or Caribbean, with ethnic food prepared by people from many countries, wait staff from around the world, and from many parts of the US.
Although I dislike the stratification of class and race, diversity works for us.
We own an NYC condo in a full-service doorman building, and our floor of 10 apartment is home to a diverse range of people, Canadian (female, working at the UN), a middle eastern couple, East Asians (immigrant and domestic, young and senior), Jews (NYC is home to the largest number), Indian (doctor at NYU), as well as some White people, like me. Our building staff is largely Hispanic and African-American, but also Asian. The super originated from the Caribbean, and the managers have been Hispanic.
- I work in financial technology, and my coworkers are often from India, Russia and/or Eastern European states (Romaine, Ukraine), Ireland, Japan, Ecuador, and the US, with some of the latter working remotely from South Dakota and North Carolina, and the our team includes African-Americans as well.Sadly, it is disproportionately male.
- The businesses we enlist locally are often run by ethnic groups, however stereotypical, with Asian dry cleaners, household cleaners that are Eastern European and/or Caribbean, with ethnic food prepared by people from many countries, wait staff from around the world, and from many parts of the US.
Although I dislike the stratification of class and race, diversity works for us.
11
Many activities are chosen for the camaraderie they offer.
1
I don't see food choice as that big an indicator of political choice. For Example I would never vote for a Democrat even for Dog Catcher, but when I lived and worked in Montgomery Country Maryland, your choice for eating out was pretty limited - it was either Chinese or Indian. So I have eaten Vindaloo but that does not determine my politics. What is available to dine out locally when you are living near where you work, is not a true indication of political views.
Now I live in Western Maryland and my food choice are the traditional American Fare I grew up with -- Fried Chicken, Corn on the Cob etc. Forcibly exposing a child to the propaganda of other cultures is NOT my idea of democracy - it seems more like Left Wing Fascism.. People should be allowed to meddle with the child's sense of normality and home through indoctrination by schools or biased social groups. Please stay out of rural communities. We don't want you.
Now I live in Western Maryland and my food choice are the traditional American Fare I grew up with -- Fried Chicken, Corn on the Cob etc. Forcibly exposing a child to the propaganda of other cultures is NOT my idea of democracy - it seems more like Left Wing Fascism.. People should be allowed to meddle with the child's sense of normality and home through indoctrination by schools or biased social groups. Please stay out of rural communities. We don't want you.
3
Thank you, Judyw, for expressing the true Voice the Heartland.
12
The hope Judyw (and others here)- is that by exposing young children to cultural differences in an accesible manner- with a unifying topic such as food- that maybe future rural generations won't be as rigid and intolerant of others as your comments indicate. As you asked to "Please stay out of rural communities. We don't want you" - its unclear who exactly you want out of your communities.
But my response to you would be- if you are uninterested in educating children to be tolerant and understanding of others differences- whether geographically or culturally- then why dont you please GET OUT OF the United States and move to Russia where state sanctioned intolerance and racism are right up your alley. We don't need you here anymore - thank you.
But my response to you would be- if you are uninterested in educating children to be tolerant and understanding of others differences- whether geographically or culturally- then why dont you please GET OUT OF the United States and move to Russia where state sanctioned intolerance and racism are right up your alley. We don't need you here anymore - thank you.
25
There's a voice of openness, curiosity, and acceptance of others! It's great to restrict yourself and your children from experiences that could be enriching.
11
And yet Jeff Sessions and Betsy DeVos want to make it as easy as possible for those who want to avoid contact with anyone not aspiring to conform to the patriarchal white christian norm.
10
If that is acceptable to the parents why is it your business to change it.
1
Deliberate obtuseness becomes no one, Judy. Vanessa's point is that it is not, in fact, acceptable to her, nor many millions of others, myself included.
14
Just because it is not acceptable to you, does not give you the right to force your view down our throats, If you want to see the result of forcing unwelcome views on a society take a look at the civil war in Donbass for how that works out.
1
At this moment, the counter indicates 26 comments. Scanning through them, I judge 8 or 9 that reject the idea of dialogue with others that are different, all by liberals rejecting what they consider conservative views.
Ms. Vavreck, you are shouting into the echo chamber.
Ms. Vavreck, you are shouting into the echo chamber.
12
That's an old trick, but that dog won't hunt. You belong to the party that refuses to budge, and just because I call you out on it doesn't make me intolerant.
19
Nonsense. I see lots of conservatives in this forum, while claiming liberals think of them as bigots and reprobates, essentially assume liberals are similarly disposed, but of course in another direction....
7
All the liberals? How would you even know that? You are assuming that any difference with you is "the other side". Starting with labels is a poor way to proceed.
4
Why not venison vindaloo? It doesn't have to be black and white. I know plenty of people who hunt and fish, whose politics are liberal, and who eat vindaloo. It's not us or them.
12
I hate to suggest this because of the adverse impact on climate change, but cosmopolitan urban dwellers might want to consider a driving vacation rather than flying to their destination. Camp or rent cabins in state parks, stay at roadside motels, arrange Air B&B stays. Go to church (your own denomination or another). Perhaps get in touch with fellow fans of what you feel passionate about, or those in your profession (I knew a lawyer who usually spent an afternoon in court when he was vacationing, just observing). There's a lot of beauty and history all across our country, and the people who live in rural areas can seem, to an urban dweller, as exotic as any foreigner.
Flying is like taking the subway: the high-density destination is a bright point, but all the places in between destinations are sort of gray and blurry. Driving (or taking the bus, for that matter) makes the in-between places more real.
Flying is like taking the subway: the high-density destination is a bright point, but all the places in between destinations are sort of gray and blurry. Driving (or taking the bus, for that matter) makes the in-between places more real.
8
When the entirety of one's universe is delimited by narrow cultural and geographical inheritance and there is no impetus or opportunity to explore or investigate the greater world, xenophobia is the result. This is why the right wing so vehemently objects to the proposition that one's environment is a significant determinant of one's thoughts and behavior; they want everything to be "the way it's supposed to be," without elaboration, as if there is something completely natural about being ignorant. That part of the right wing that is educated, well traveled, and aware of the world around them (the GOP leadership and financiers) know better, it's just that terrorizing and manipulating the ignorant is what they do for a living.
10
It is hard to expose kids from small communities in rural areas to diverse populations. Perhaps something like a Fresh Air Fund could be created to give these kids an opportunity to spend some time with people of different races and backgrounds.
Perhaps people from different countries who are American citizens or Green Card holders can be persuaded to go to small rural schools to talk about their festivals, foods, languages, etc. Once the child has been exposed to the diversity that exists in America, it will not feel alien and fearful.
Perhaps people from different countries who are American citizens or Green Card holders can be persuaded to go to small rural schools to talk about their festivals, foods, languages, etc. Once the child has been exposed to the diversity that exists in America, it will not feel alien and fearful.
23
What a lovely idea, and an excellent, thoughtful comment. Far more thoughtful than my own knee-jerk left-wingery. Thank you.
1
Being an immigrant, well travelled, liberally educated, and eating "foreign" food has made me "worldly" and all inclusive. Those who never leave home are naive and so repressed. I even managed to exist for 5 years in NE Kansas. The folks there are so closed. I was definitely not accepted but by one. A Brazilian woman with whom I found a lot in common. I must confess, I learned a lot from that experience and mostly, that the folks who "shelter" themselves are so closed. They are the ones that need to get out and reach out. They are also the t-rump voters who vote against everything that would help them. It all finally made sense to me.
22
An interesting premise; equating one's culinary habits with how one tends to vote.
Of course, here in New York City there is a limitation in the ability to go hunting, but there's no problem finding a good Vindaloo -- maybe that explains why Trump tanked here...even though it's his own hometown.
Of course, here in New York City there is a limitation in the ability to go hunting, but there's no problem finding a good Vindaloo -- maybe that explains why Trump tanked here...even though it's his own hometown.
9
Just curious: what percentage of the population of NYC do you think has eaten vindaloo?
4
The point is that it's available.
1
It would be nice to believe this, but the GOP has spent time, money and intelligence appealing to the not-so-cosmopolitan voter, and it has paid off handsomely. Hillary Clinton was never a very good candidate, but never so terrible that she would otherwise lose to a world class conman, liar, business failure, tax cheat, and blowhard.
During the campaign only one state considered immigration the #1 problem facing the nation: Alaska. How did that happen? Decades of GOP vilification of the main stream media mixed with manufactured fear of "the other" led those brave Alaskans to cower under their beds at the prospect of being attacked by "rapist" Mexicans.
We've been endlessly counseled to "understand" the Trump voters. But the data tell us that 85% of Republican voters still support Agent Orange. Most of them do it simply because he's a Republican.
But the fraction of that group conned by his promises to make everything "great" are simply fools. I understand being a fool: we're all fools now and then. But these people had 17 months to listen to this conman and they never caught on because he appealed to their racism, fear, paranoia and pie-in-the-sky hopes. Many of them are in dying towns, living on welfare, disability checks and opioids. Their kids are gone: they had the smarts to get out. But these Trump voters pinned their hopes on a performance artist who belongs in a revival tent preaching about the second coming. And selling a cancer cure in the parking lot.
During the campaign only one state considered immigration the #1 problem facing the nation: Alaska. How did that happen? Decades of GOP vilification of the main stream media mixed with manufactured fear of "the other" led those brave Alaskans to cower under their beds at the prospect of being attacked by "rapist" Mexicans.
We've been endlessly counseled to "understand" the Trump voters. But the data tell us that 85% of Republican voters still support Agent Orange. Most of them do it simply because he's a Republican.
But the fraction of that group conned by his promises to make everything "great" are simply fools. I understand being a fool: we're all fools now and then. But these people had 17 months to listen to this conman and they never caught on because he appealed to their racism, fear, paranoia and pie-in-the-sky hopes. Many of them are in dying towns, living on welfare, disability checks and opioids. Their kids are gone: they had the smarts to get out. But these Trump voters pinned their hopes on a performance artist who belongs in a revival tent preaching about the second coming. And selling a cancer cure in the parking lot.
55
No, Professor Vavreck, it wasn't Mr. Obama's comments about voters in parts of the country “clinging to their guns and their religion” that "didn’t help Appalachian residents warm to Mr. Obama." It was his black skin that reminded those rural whites that "he was different from them, and...reminded them of it all the time."
Whites who voted for Trump did so out of bigotry and racism. Pure and simple.
Whites who voted for Trump did so out of bigotry and racism. Pure and simple.
44
Thank you for avoiding the 'democrat- splaining' thats been going on since November.
The truth. If you voted for Trump- you have voted to support isolationism, bigotry and hatred. Period. He is - without question - the largest threat to our country we have encountered since the rise of Facism in the mid 20th century.
The truth. If you voted for Trump- you have voted to support isolationism, bigotry and hatred. Period. He is - without question - the largest threat to our country we have encountered since the rise of Facism in the mid 20th century.
13
Sad but true.
5
I applaud your extensive research and reasoned conclusion!
1
The real factor must be not eating in Indian resturants. I have checked all the other boxes and I am still conservative.
As far as visiting Asia did the researchers control for whether that visit was part of a combat tour or just a vacation?
Seriously though it is a simple matter of treating people who disagree with you with a little respect and having the courage to listen to different view points.
As far as visiting Asia did the researchers control for whether that visit was part of a combat tour or just a vacation?
Seriously though it is a simple matter of treating people who disagree with you with a little respect and having the courage to listen to different view points.
9
The real factor isn't about eating in Indian resturatnts.
It's about being open-minded to different cultures and traditions -- which under this increasingly White nationalistic administration, is looking less and less possible.
There's a problem when the term "foreign" doesn't only apply to those from another country, but also to where one lives (like NYC, LA, or the "coast).
And it's this kind of isloationist thinking that is tearing this country apart.
It's about being open-minded to different cultures and traditions -- which under this increasingly White nationalistic administration, is looking less and less possible.
There's a problem when the term "foreign" doesn't only apply to those from another country, but also to where one lives (like NYC, LA, or the "coast).
And it's this kind of isloationist thinking that is tearing this country apart.
10
I'm a costal elite who travels when ever I can. As a result I have been exposed to many kinds of people. And now I am expected to use that same tool to "appreciate a hillbilly " .
Maybe it's the hillbillies who need to crawl out of their comfort zone and expose themselves to the world.
Maybe it's the hillbillies who need to crawl out of their comfort zone and expose themselves to the world.
23
I understand your frustration because I feel it as well. But would you consider that it may be as difficult for "hillbillies" to venture out of their environments as it is for urban youths to escape gang-ridden neighborhoods, or for poor native populations of faraway lands to visit the "first world?" Yet, us urban elites shower the latter two with an enormous amount of understanding and empathy, while dismissing the former as ignorant and hopeless. Perhaps you and I don't have to change. But the Democratic Party, if it ever hopes to win the electoral votes again, must.
13
How about some empathy? Your attitude and similar attitudes of "coastal elites" illustrates the problem with the Democratic party alienating working and middle class voters. I grew up in hillbilly land, attended an Ivy League university, and have lived in large coastal cities my whole adult life. You could describe me as a "coastal elite," but I don't look down my nose at people who aren't exactly like me. My coastal liberal cohort embarrasses me with its snobbery and priggishness. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
12
Here's the thing: You have one vote. "Those hillbillies" also have one vote. If you'd like a different election outcome, it's time to stop sneering at them, and try to find some common ground.
6
I am always baffled by arguments that the Democrats/liberals/progressives MUST each out and understand Trump voters/Republicans as if there was some sort of conversion therapy going on. Why are the first group identified as particularly heinous when they dislike the second, but the second group is NEVER admonished to stop being crude, insulting, nasty and closed-mnded about the first? There is something wrong with this picture, as if the "elite" as disdainful and the incessant vituperation from the "non-elite" is somehow vindicated.
Of course, for some reason in the United States, it is quite OK to disdain education and knowledge, under the guise of "equality" and if the educated feel attacked they just need to toughen up and act their attackers. But when they do they are beyond the pale.
It's wrong on many levels.
Of course, for some reason in the United States, it is quite OK to disdain education and knowledge, under the guise of "equality" and if the educated feel attacked they just need to toughen up and act their attackers. But when they do they are beyond the pale.
It's wrong on many levels.
70
Has any study looked at correlations of IQ with voting patterns? Would be interesting. My guess would be that whatever the results, those for the Trump-Clinton election would be different from most of the others.
7
It was not much different than usual, except maybe the conservative party voters were even less educated than usual. Those with the highest education groups tend to vote liberally, as do, sometimes the lowest, although this is mediated by ethnicity. The middle tends to be conservative. With this last election, it was not different, and as usual, increasing education tended to vote more liberally.
As per FiveThirtyEight:
Education, Not Income, Predicted Who Would Vote For Trump
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/education-not-income-predicted-who-w...
Even Among The Wealthy, Education Predicts Trump Support
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/even-among-the-wealthy-education-pr...
As per FiveThirtyEight:
Education, Not Income, Predicted Who Would Vote For Trump
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/education-not-income-predicted-who-w...
Even Among The Wealthy, Education Predicts Trump Support
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/even-among-the-wealthy-education-pr...
I'm curious as to what it is that you're suggesting. Let's examine this: suppose your IQ question was studied, and it turned out that the average Trump voter's IQ was 10 points lower than the average Clinton voter's. Should we lower Trump's vote count by 10%? Should there be an lower IQ limit for voting? Should the votes of individuals with higher IQs count more??
1
The LEAST educated voters go Democrat
High school dropout rate
Hispanics 35%+
Blacks 13% +
Whites 6.7%
Do get a BA
Hispanics 15%
Blacks 20%
Whites 35%
SO who are the uneducated voters?
High school dropout rate
Hispanics 35%+
Blacks 13% +
Whites 6.7%
Do get a BA
Hispanics 15%
Blacks 20%
Whites 35%
SO who are the uneducated voters?
1
I don't like these indicators, since:
- Hunting is a pretty expensive hobby, particularly if you have to do it from scratch without being able to use your relative's infrastructure (guns, stands, etc.). Even worse, hunting is very regional. Fishing is cheaper, more universal, and is less bloody in nature, so it might have been a better indicator.
- Going to Europe or Australia is very expensive (particularly Australia, particularly in case of a family). It is a pure income filter more than anything else.
- Indian cuisine is still regional; Chinese or Japanese might fare better, simply because these restaurants are found everywhere
Truth is, this quick and dirty regional divide is rather meaningless, because the variables are already closely tied to known regional/income preferences.
- Hunting is a pretty expensive hobby, particularly if you have to do it from scratch without being able to use your relative's infrastructure (guns, stands, etc.). Even worse, hunting is very regional. Fishing is cheaper, more universal, and is less bloody in nature, so it might have been a better indicator.
- Going to Europe or Australia is very expensive (particularly Australia, particularly in case of a family). It is a pure income filter more than anything else.
- Indian cuisine is still regional; Chinese or Japanese might fare better, simply because these restaurants are found everywhere
Truth is, this quick and dirty regional divide is rather meaningless, because the variables are already closely tied to known regional/income preferences.
14
Exactly! It's the reliance on such unscientific "just so" stories that makes social science often unsuited for public policy advice, yet so tempting to cite.
3
Interesting criticisms, but they miss some key qualifiers from Vavreck:
"These relationships persist after accounting for things like partisanship, income, education and geography."
The prospect of confounding factors still remains. It is somewhat baffling, for example, how one could control adequately for income in examining the effects of travel outside of country (e.g. to Australia, Asia, Africa, or Europe). If rare few people in families living on ~$30K make such trips (they might travel to Canada or Mexico, but that's a different consideration). The sample size would have to be quite large in order to reflect that travel changed political beliefs, attitudes, and preferences, at lower income levels.
Vavreck also only briefly touches on issues of reverse and third cause - whether correlations between votes and the mentioned indicators were effects of a common cause, or whether the extent to which openness to candidates/political views is caused by getting out and traveling more, or whether the causation goes in the other direction (being more open causes one to explore more), or is a combination of both directions.
As with so much of what is published in The Upshot, interesting correlations are noted, often with strong hints of causation, while the hard work of causal analysis is barely touched upon. Surely the editors can do better.
"These relationships persist after accounting for things like partisanship, income, education and geography."
The prospect of confounding factors still remains. It is somewhat baffling, for example, how one could control adequately for income in examining the effects of travel outside of country (e.g. to Australia, Asia, Africa, or Europe). If rare few people in families living on ~$30K make such trips (they might travel to Canada or Mexico, but that's a different consideration). The sample size would have to be quite large in order to reflect that travel changed political beliefs, attitudes, and preferences, at lower income levels.
Vavreck also only briefly touches on issues of reverse and third cause - whether correlations between votes and the mentioned indicators were effects of a common cause, or whether the extent to which openness to candidates/political views is caused by getting out and traveling more, or whether the causation goes in the other direction (being more open causes one to explore more), or is a combination of both directions.
As with so much of what is published in The Upshot, interesting correlations are noted, often with strong hints of causation, while the hard work of causal analysis is barely touched upon. Surely the editors can do better.
3
Maybe you didn't notice, but your criticism was mentioned and negated:
"These relationships persist after accounting for things like partisanship, income, education and geography."
"These relationships persist after accounting for things like partisanship, income, education and geography."
When I was 18 I left my community for a State University. 30k people from the entire state of FL and many other states and countries. I lived in the dorm the first year with this diverse community (unfortunately the dorms became too crowded the next year and Sophomores were kicked out). I shared apartments for the remainder of the time with people I had never known before. One of my roommates gave me away at my wedding as standing in father of the bride when I was 50. Others took me to their homes where their families had very different backgrounds then mine and opened their homes hearts to me. Recently in FL I visited with one of these old friends and thanked her for her friendship and how much she had influenced my life direction.
This confluence of young people to the universities opened our minds to the world. Now college is too expensive for most or the loans place too high a cost for this experience. In my opinion, we cannot afford as a society to undercut education. Education is critical to open minds. On-line education while more affordable does not provide young people with the opportunity to become independent searchers of truth. All of us need the opportunity to meet the world, not just our little back yard. Education provides society with that opportunity and it should not be funded at a lower priority than guns and walls.
This confluence of young people to the universities opened our minds to the world. Now college is too expensive for most or the loans place too high a cost for this experience. In my opinion, we cannot afford as a society to undercut education. Education is critical to open minds. On-line education while more affordable does not provide young people with the opportunity to become independent searchers of truth. All of us need the opportunity to meet the world, not just our little back yard. Education provides society with that opportunity and it should not be funded at a lower priority than guns and walls.
50
It is not just the unaffordability of education, although it is an outcome, but the inequality, the lower quality of life that it engenders, and the maltreatment coming out of our government, and the short-sightedness of our culture, that is ruining American lives.
1
I agree with Chef K on everything except his vote for Trump. I just can't go that far. I also want to put in a plug for reading novels set in different cultures. Hotel at the Corner of Bitter and Sweet or My German Soldier are two examples. I grew up reading Charkes Dickens, The Ugly American, Advise and Consent, and more recently, In the Garden of Beasts. Those books helped me understand people and cultures different from my own without traveling widely. Combined with travel, these books would help bridge the gaps between people of all cultures.
7
Thank you for your words of support Ms. Cagle. My vote for Trump was really an anti swamp vote, and the fact that I felt we should not endure another 4 - 8 years of the Clintons on Pennsylvania Avenue (sometimes we have to hold our nose at the voting booth (LOL)). BTW, we read the same books, along with Silent Spring, Portnoy's Complaint, To Kill A Mockinbird and The Good Earth :-). Father was out of blue collar Irish, and mother a Philadelphia Quaker. I inherited a great mix of both.
5
This is nothing new. Diversity, is both cause and effect of openness to experience. Open-minded people, as per the Big Five and/or OCEAN personality inventories, tend to be liberal, and their lifestyle choices reflect that. They tend to get educated, move to cities, and enjoy a greater variation in travel, reading, and music. They enjoy urban, dense environments with a range of identities. People with low openness, or for the sake of simplicity, the close-minded, tend to stick close to home, favor family and church, and tend to distrust urban, diverse environments. This dimension seems to also informally correlate with disgust and fear of the unknown, something seemingly related to a fear of the foreign.
You likely have guessed, or assume, that I am very liberal, and I am an fairly empathetic person, but I would not find engaging with such people enjoyable, or at least not for long. The ones I do have in my environment, the obvious ones, are the most belligerent, hateful people, and the more subdued ones are nice, but not people I personally engage with, although I can certainly enjoy conversations about personal topics with them.
In truth, the more my spouse and I understand how we do not fit in the United States, and that humanitarian and welfare concerns will likely be treated as less important than work, the more we consider emigrating. As individuals, we would better fit in Sweden or the Netherlands, while as a couple we might enjoy Canada or New Zealand.
You likely have guessed, or assume, that I am very liberal, and I am an fairly empathetic person, but I would not find engaging with such people enjoyable, or at least not for long. The ones I do have in my environment, the obvious ones, are the most belligerent, hateful people, and the more subdued ones are nice, but not people I personally engage with, although I can certainly enjoy conversations about personal topics with them.
In truth, the more my spouse and I understand how we do not fit in the United States, and that humanitarian and welfare concerns will likely be treated as less important than work, the more we consider emigrating. As individuals, we would better fit in Sweden or the Netherlands, while as a couple we might enjoy Canada or New Zealand.
19
re:"Open-minded people . . . tend to be liberal, and their lifestyle choices reflect that. They tend to get educated, move to cities, and enjoy a greater variation in travel, reading, and music. They enjoy urban, dense environments with a range of identities."
I see through the other end of your telescope, having retired to Appalachia. I've found educated, well-traveled people of diverse heritage living throughout the area. There is a healthy mix of political opinion, and civility in expressing it. It seems that there is a national trend toward moving away from urban, dense environments. I'm a liberal living in rural America and I'm not alone.
I see through the other end of your telescope, having retired to Appalachia. I've found educated, well-traveled people of diverse heritage living throughout the area. There is a healthy mix of political opinion, and civility in expressing it. It seems that there is a national trend toward moving away from urban, dense environments. I'm a liberal living in rural America and I'm not alone.
9
My honeymoon budget for two weeks in Italy, all things included, came down to 10k; I can imagine cutting it down to 5k, but no more, since at this point we start hitting airfare, absolutely cheapest hotels, and bottom for transportation within the country.
My two weeks in Washington last year - for two - came in at about half the price, since we drove and the museums were free.
The math would be even more brutal if there were three of us, or more. Truth is, form most US households unless you had enough money prior to having kids to go to Europe, next time you can realistically do so is when you retire.
My two weeks in Washington last year - for two - came in at about half the price, since we drove and the museums were free.
The math would be even more brutal if there were three of us, or more. Truth is, form most US households unless you had enough money prior to having kids to go to Europe, next time you can realistically do so is when you retire.
4
The entire United States is a big place -- have you really traveled it so extensively that you're sure you don't "fit in" anywhere? We'd hate to lose you.
2
My life of six decades has been an immersion in both worlds. I grew up in Western PA (currently mapped in the land of deplorables) , and spent the next 20 years in Manhattan. I would agree with the author that a "broader orbit" in life can be enlightening. As a lifelong conservative Democrat I have voted both parties (Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, W, Obama, Trump) = in some cases swayed by party policy and in others by the candidate alone. I would proudly characterize myself as a real social mutt - fiscally conservative, socially liberal, bird hunter, NRA life member, jazz/opera/bluegrass fan, fully supportive of women's and LGBT equal rights, love NYC, Paris, Rome as well as the natural beauty of Appalachia and Dakota plains - go figure?
I take exception to coastal liberals who disdain flyover country folks as politically ignorant and socially prejudicial. This is merely a reflection of their own ignorance and prejudice because they have never walked any distance in the other pair of shoes - a weekend "interaction" at BnBs in Charleston, WV does not suffice. Trust me, there are yuge numbers of fine citizens all over this great country.
I take exception to coastal liberals who disdain flyover country folks as politically ignorant and socially prejudicial. This is merely a reflection of their own ignorance and prejudice because they have never walked any distance in the other pair of shoes - a weekend "interaction" at BnBs in Charleston, WV does not suffice. Trust me, there are yuge numbers of fine citizens all over this great country.
34
I agree with you. When I was growing up I saw diversity in my dad's very diverse family -- ten children who ranged from farmer,, to factory worker, to policeman, to school superintendent, to pediatrician, to insurance company executive. Their differences led to completely different lifestyles and arguments that led to no changed minds but the arguments never led to name calling or dislike. I mingled with these people all my life. I can't say I ever completely understood them but was able to converse with them on a personal level and cared about them. Disdaining those who are different will never lead to the democracy we yearn for and will only lead to greater distrust. Hillbilly Elegy is a must read for elites from both parties. It explains the weaknesses in their culture without faulting them. It would be good if someone could write a similar book about the culture of the elite. Both sides could use the understanding.
12
Why did you vote for Trump?
4
Very similar in a lot of ways to Chef K and agree completely with his comment about coastal liberals, and also held my nose and voted for Trump. Betsy, to answer your question, you should not assume that someone voting for Trump actually likes the man. Rather, most of us felt that despite being a narcissistic vulgarian he would on whole be more likely to do things we wanted, such as appoint a more conservative SC justice, have a more "transaction oriented" foreign policy, etc.
3
However, if the 'hillbillies' are not interested in interacting with you it makes it hard to 'relate' to them.
Second, I had no problem understanding Trump's core demographic. We should not paint ALL Trump supporters with the same brush. But the fact remains that a significant number of them are, or at a minimun tolerate, racists, sexist, xenophobes, and religious bigots. You are asking those of us who do not harbor nor tolerate those views to be understanding of these 'poor rural folk' who are sufferning economically and have an opiode addition crises. Well boo-hoo. The urban poor have been suffering for a generation from disapearing economic opprotunity, a war on drugs that was a war on the black family and all we heard from the rural poor was, 'It's your own moral failings that cause your problems'. I used to have sympathy for the so called Trump voter. But by voting for Trump they have shown that they don't care about the values of Christianity, only identity politics. Rural America has been playing a zero sum game for 30 years and sticking it to the Urban American. I have had enough and will be looking for payback.