Now that the ICE Agents feel they are free to perform their functions, do they also have the appropriate guidelines?. What criteria or basis do the ICE Agents follow when they have to stop and question someone?
According to news, family members of the Late Muhammed Ali (US Boxing Legend) were stopped at some airport in Florida, and questioned for sometime. Even though they are US citizens.
The ICE Agents may feel encouraged and motivated with the support they see coming from the White House. However, there is cause for concern in other areas. There are people who have mixed views and think differently. They feel emboldened by this new immigration order.
In a recent incident in Kansas City, two individuals of Indian origin was attacked by a gunman, killing one person. The gunman was shouting "get out of my country".
This new immigration order has been unleashed on the people with no proper thought process or foresight. For several decades, the subject of illegal immigration has been carried over from one Administration to the next. There was no serious strategy implemented to seek a solution to the problem.
So, today, we have a President who is capitalizing on his election campaign promise and hence we see this immigration order. Not seeing a solution, it would have been prudent for Mr. Trump, instead of issuing his Executive Order, to have the Legislative Branches to come up with their proposals to address the issues surrounding the undocumented immigration.
According to news, family members of the Late Muhammed Ali (US Boxing Legend) were stopped at some airport in Florida, and questioned for sometime. Even though they are US citizens.
The ICE Agents may feel encouraged and motivated with the support they see coming from the White House. However, there is cause for concern in other areas. There are people who have mixed views and think differently. They feel emboldened by this new immigration order.
In a recent incident in Kansas City, two individuals of Indian origin was attacked by a gunman, killing one person. The gunman was shouting "get out of my country".
This new immigration order has been unleashed on the people with no proper thought process or foresight. For several decades, the subject of illegal immigration has been carried over from one Administration to the next. There was no serious strategy implemented to seek a solution to the problem.
So, today, we have a President who is capitalizing on his election campaign promise and hence we see this immigration order. Not seeing a solution, it would have been prudent for Mr. Trump, instead of issuing his Executive Order, to have the Legislative Branches to come up with their proposals to address the issues surrounding the undocumented immigration.
8
The Police are kind of like "The Shining" now but those shining badges aren't big enough to hide their sadistic inclinations.
5
In Canada, immigration is controlled by occupational skills, education and age. In the U.S., it is traditionally controlled by family status/relationship. Clearly, the Canadians know what they are doing with this one.
16
Well if we did not have freedom of speech and the press, as guaranteed in the Bill of Rights, we would not go what is going on. If we did not have those, we would not know about Trump and company's relationships with Russia; the ttargeting of Hispanics and perceived Muslims by ICE and the CBP when white Europeans and Asians and others overstay; the unbelievable behavior of Sean Spicer, including his careening of his own staff's government and PERSONAL phones; the banning of certain parts of the press from briefings but the shameful behavior of other MSM in not refusing to go to the gaggle in the future; the financial dealings of Trump and company; the emergence of John McCain as the conscience of the Republican Party; the shameful behavior of Ryan and McConnel.
Isn't violation of the Constitution an impeachable offense?
Shouldn't we wake up? What can we do? This is not a rhetorical question. This is how econic disasters, unjustified wars, and most egregiously dictatorships start. Take to the streets? Do pro bono immigration work if we are attorneys? Volunteer at programs for immigrants? Give contributions to immigrant groups? Where are the activists who have marched for other causes as against police brutality? Against the dimunitution of the rights of women? I am at a loss. Simply because WE are at least protected by the Cobstitution against misbehavior by domestic police forces as citizens, why no rage against what is happening here. Our turn will come soon.
Isn't violation of the Constitution an impeachable offense?
Shouldn't we wake up? What can we do? This is not a rhetorical question. This is how econic disasters, unjustified wars, and most egregiously dictatorships start. Take to the streets? Do pro bono immigration work if we are attorneys? Volunteer at programs for immigrants? Give contributions to immigrant groups? Where are the activists who have marched for other causes as against police brutality? Against the dimunitution of the rights of women? I am at a loss. Simply because WE are at least protected by the Cobstitution against misbehavior by domestic police forces as citizens, why no rage against what is happening here. Our turn will come soon.
5
NYTimes; please start a database of news reports of immigrants killed by police during roundups and raids. There will be many people killed by the police.
9
'Freedom' to enforce the law? We should not ignore the punishment of the employers that took advantage of the lack of enforcement of the law. Who is ultimately responsible for NOT enforcing a law?
7
I am a white boy. My wife of 38 years is Mexican-American, born and raised in Dallas. We were stationed for many years in McAllen, Texas across the border from Reynosa, and then for many more years in Mexico City, Hermosillo, and Puebla. Mexico is a beautiful country with lovely people, but the political system is rotten to the core. It is the most corrupt country in the world. I still love Mexico, but their system is all about the $$$$. Rotten to the core.
14
I would expect the corruption in Africa is orders of magnitude worse than that in Mexico and Central America
3
I voted for Clinton but I must say, some of the comments here are ridiculous. Why should we mind 11 million illegal residents? Really? I am beginning to think that the cry babies here are going to lose their nanny or maid. I am a progressive Independent and you folks are making so-called "liberals" a dirty word. I am embarrassed. No wonder so many voted for Trump. Liberals have become irrational. Obama deported 2.5 million and I never heard one peep here about that.
22
JMM - I voted for Her too. Voted for Obama twice. Unfortunately our more far left liberal friends will be wearing pink hats, taking to the streets and making noise shouting Nazi!, instead of wearing formal attire, walking the halls of government and working toward a more perfect Union.
For me I've read too many stories of exploited women laborers who are sexually assaulted or raped and it makes me teeter between sorrow and a quiet rage. These women work in the evening when many readers are home with their families or getting ready for bed. They work in the same type office buildings, from LA to 620 on 8th Ave. NY. It is also likely that these mothers, sisters, aunts and daughters are probably coming from another job they were doing before they start a night shift vacuuming, mopping and scrubbing toilets. Hard working women with a quick smile. I know because I worked too many late nights behind a desk in a few office buildings in LA, doing my job while they did theirs. I'm trying to get ahead, while they are trying to get by.
I feel sorrow that these women are exploited economically and live in the shadows. I boil internally when I think of these strong yet vulnerable women being raped and sexually assaulted and they can't come forward for justice, the most beautiful of all women, out of fear of deportation.
To me, this is just another dark facet of illegal immigration but its OK because it is cost effective. That is until you look beyond the spread sheet.
For me I've read too many stories of exploited women laborers who are sexually assaulted or raped and it makes me teeter between sorrow and a quiet rage. These women work in the evening when many readers are home with their families or getting ready for bed. They work in the same type office buildings, from LA to 620 on 8th Ave. NY. It is also likely that these mothers, sisters, aunts and daughters are probably coming from another job they were doing before they start a night shift vacuuming, mopping and scrubbing toilets. Hard working women with a quick smile. I know because I worked too many late nights behind a desk in a few office buildings in LA, doing my job while they did theirs. I'm trying to get ahead, while they are trying to get by.
I feel sorrow that these women are exploited economically and live in the shadows. I boil internally when I think of these strong yet vulnerable women being raped and sexually assaulted and they can't come forward for justice, the most beautiful of all women, out of fear of deportation.
To me, this is just another dark facet of illegal immigration but its OK because it is cost effective. That is until you look beyond the spread sheet.
11
Yeah, they're here illegally. OK. OK. We get that. But for whatever reason, this was tolerated for decades. Now there is zero-tolerance. Is there no Trump supporter who has the least bit of humanity and sees the immediate personal/familial devastation of this complete one-eighty? You can't summon up the least bit of empathy? You can't somehow place yourself in someone else's shoes and see how perhaps twenty years ago you'd have gone anywhere under any circumstances to improve your life or the lives of your loved ones? Has your life been so static? Have none of you made rash or ill-advised decisions years ago and found you were unable to extricate yourself from your present situation, so you decided to try to live a decent life and move forward? Are all of you so perfect?
All I'm saying is, if you are so hellbent on 'removing' these people from your midst, you have to do this in some considered humane fashion. You are not sending dogcatchers out to 'round up' stray dogs. These are people with lives. You ask 'what don't liberals understand a bout illegality?' I ask conservatives, 'what don't you understand about humanity?' You're the crew still mad about Jesus's family being sent back to Nazareth or Bethlehem or wherever to pay their taxes all those years ago. How about a little room at the inn until these people can put their stuff in boxes and make arrangements to relocate?
All I'm saying is, if you are so hellbent on 'removing' these people from your midst, you have to do this in some considered humane fashion. You are not sending dogcatchers out to 'round up' stray dogs. These are people with lives. You ask 'what don't liberals understand a bout illegality?' I ask conservatives, 'what don't you understand about humanity?' You're the crew still mad about Jesus's family being sent back to Nazareth or Bethlehem or wherever to pay their taxes all those years ago. How about a little room at the inn until these people can put their stuff in boxes and make arrangements to relocate?
19
Many of them have had final deportation orders for years...even a decade. They have no intention of boxing up their stuff and going home.
Boy, so many are naïve with a capital N.
Boy, so many are naïve with a capital N.
15
Melinda (I love that name, btw),
"...even a decade." So you're kind of making my point. For whatever reason and by whoever’s edict, there was some kind of understanding that if one lived under the radar and was otherwise law-abiding, s/he would enjoy a protected status. Whether this was wrong or right is beside the point. As of the installation of the current administration, this protected status no longer applies. Time starts now. I mean you can call me naive, and maybe I am. I'm thinking about how I would respond in a similar situation. When the governor says no more reprieves, then I guess this is it. I gotta go to the chair. All I'm asking for is a little human dignity, a chance to say goodbye to my loved ones and a chance to put my affairs in order. Then you can flip the switch. And make no mistake, for people who have been away from an area for years and have no family or connections and no employment waiting, it probably is a death sentence.
"...even a decade." So you're kind of making my point. For whatever reason and by whoever’s edict, there was some kind of understanding that if one lived under the radar and was otherwise law-abiding, s/he would enjoy a protected status. Whether this was wrong or right is beside the point. As of the installation of the current administration, this protected status no longer applies. Time starts now. I mean you can call me naive, and maybe I am. I'm thinking about how I would respond in a similar situation. When the governor says no more reprieves, then I guess this is it. I gotta go to the chair. All I'm asking for is a little human dignity, a chance to say goodbye to my loved ones and a chance to put my affairs in order. Then you can flip the switch. And make no mistake, for people who have been away from an area for years and have no family or connections and no employment waiting, it probably is a death sentence.
7
I applaud these actions. It's time to enforce the laws of our nation, just as any other nation already does. For too long, our nation's leaders turned a blind eye towards illegal aliens, but we finally are doing what should have been done years ago.
14
People usually like doing their jobs.
A defense Lawyer likes defending people. A football player likes playing football, a school teacher likes to teach. An Immigration agent would like to arrest illegal immigrants. That is his/her job, whether we like it or not.
A defense Lawyer likes defending people. A football player likes playing football, a school teacher likes to teach. An Immigration agent would like to arrest illegal immigrants. That is his/her job, whether we like it or not.
11
When I travel to other countries I am detained along with others in customs and I also have to show my passport. Big deal.
13
The late Barbara Jordan, who chaired President Clinton's Immigration Reform Commission, said it best: In order for this country's immigration policy to be credible, people have to be deported. Yes, our priority has to be those with criminal backgrounds, but those who are holding jobs that rightfully belong to Americans must also be "required to leave." Why all this concern about "potential for abuse" when talking about people who have no right to be here? What is so abusive about a sovereign nation defending its sovereignty and right to self-determination?
17
It's almost comical, but not quite: ICE agents going to work at the crack of dawn in order to arrest people who also go to work at the crack of dawn. If the worst thing you can say about so many immigrants is that they are here ILLEGALLY, then by all means, please explain why ANYONE who is willing to get up at the crack of dawn in order to work hard all day should be considered unwelcome in this country.
16
This is a very weird headline. "Freedom to deport?" Can feel free by deporting someone today?
1
Obama applied the Pareto principle (basic in management).
Go for the 20% that causes 80% of the damage. Take out the people who are the cause of criminal problems.
Trump's memo endorses self gratification - see how hard I've tried.. Lots of activity leading to minimal results but an appearance of great effort.
Stick with Obama - more bang for the buck.
Go for the 20% that causes 80% of the damage. Take out the people who are the cause of criminal problems.
Trump's memo endorses self gratification - see how hard I've tried.. Lots of activity leading to minimal results but an appearance of great effort.
Stick with Obama - more bang for the buck.
13
Only serious criminals. Low level criminals were not bothered.
4
The Pareto principle refers to an observation in nature. Are you telling us that enforcement of laws should only apply to 20% of the law breakers? Did less than 20% of the wealthy population profit from the 8 years of Obama rule? Yes they did, and enforcing the laws regarding the Wall Street players was not part of his agenda. Is hypocrisy not evident?
7
I'm amazed and saddened at the number of people who are missing the point on this, and assuming (like ICE) that anyone coming in and being targeted is illegal. The point is that ICE now has free will to harass and detain anyone WITHOUT a valid reason. In the last few days, this included a visiting Australian author, a visiting French historian, and the fingerprinting and mugshotting of a senior Canadian couple who were just catching a connecting flight to Mexico from Canada. Reports of people (with US citizenship or valid VISAs) being questioned about where their grandparents and parents were born. Plus making everyone on a plane show their ID. The Trump administration has incited bigotry and hate, and has given ICE free rein to do the same. Meanwhile, most of the violence and crime is committed here by Americans.
21
So? When I have visited about 15 other countries, I have had to show my passport and Visa on many occasions. Big deal. If I am not commiting a crime I am not afraid nor pettily annoyed. Nations have a right to protect their sovereignity.
7
There seems to be two false narratives here. First, there is this suggestion that the Obama administration was somehow shackling immigration enforcement agents from doing their jobs. The numbers simply suggest otherwise. The Obama administration deported more people than any previous administration, and both Border Patrol and ICE budgets INCREASED under Obama.
Second, there is this idea that Trump's directive will lead to better enforcement. On the contrary, turning the focus away from gang members and violent criminals simply turns enforcement into a numbers game. Instead of focusing on public safety threats, the commandment of the new administration seems to be "pull in as big a haul as possible." Will dispersing enforcement resources to round up gardeners and cleaning ladies improve public safety? Logically, it seems not.
It seems to me this is classic Trump: sound and fury, signifying nothing. It looks good to Trump supporters for ICE police to do a lot more busts and kick down more doors. In substance, the new policies actually divert enforcement resources away from "bad hombres." But since Trump apparently thinks of his job as running for his second term, this focus on showmanship rather than substance should not come as a surprise to any of us.
Second, there is this idea that Trump's directive will lead to better enforcement. On the contrary, turning the focus away from gang members and violent criminals simply turns enforcement into a numbers game. Instead of focusing on public safety threats, the commandment of the new administration seems to be "pull in as big a haul as possible." Will dispersing enforcement resources to round up gardeners and cleaning ladies improve public safety? Logically, it seems not.
It seems to me this is classic Trump: sound and fury, signifying nothing. It looks good to Trump supporters for ICE police to do a lot more busts and kick down more doors. In substance, the new policies actually divert enforcement resources away from "bad hombres." But since Trump apparently thinks of his job as running for his second term, this focus on showmanship rather than substance should not come as a surprise to any of us.
22
Sickening. Customs and Border Patrol / ICE have always been given too much leeway and have always used this power in objectionable ways. The sad thing is that this friction hurts our economy and stature and does nothing to make us safe. The scary thing is, however, that Trump and team implement each policy with maximum cruelty. There is a hatred bubbling below the surface of this things and exciting the hearts and minds of the worst among us.
11
Now watch restaurants, farming operations, construction sites and the landscape gardening industry grind to a halt as one business after another can no longer find anyone to work for them.
15
Bologna! My teenagers and many others would love those jobs. And our lawns were fine long before these folks invaded.
11
History repeats because people repeat their knowledge of history.
2
So we go from shining city to gated community.
4
Unfortunately, we cannot take in all the billions on the planet in search of better economic circumstances.
4
Newsflash: If you're in this country without authorization then you are committing a CRIME. No American citizen gets the benefit of being labeled 'otherwise law abiding,' no American citizen is allowed to ignore the law without consequences. No American citizen can avoid consequences for their crime to avoid 'breaking up a family' If a child's parent brought them here then the parents should be prosecuted and deported. They may raise their children in the country they came from. Its not some human rights abuse for a Mexican child to be raise in Mexico. Dont be mad at those enforcing the law, be upset at the parents who put their families at risk and committed crimes while doing it. Trump campaigned on deporting those who are here illegally and he won the election. Time to put American citizens first before we pay for the housing, food, education and healthcare of every poor person in the world who makes it to our shores.
10
Michael, you claim that the US pays for housing, food, Healthcare and school for poor immigrants. Did you know that illegal immigrants do not have access to Healthcare, food stamps and other social programs? In most cases, if they work with a fake SSN, they pay taxes, medicare and social security just like you and me. They do get "free" school, but what good is that if you are not able to get a job later on because you're undocumented? I do not support illegal immigration, but there's a humane side to this conflict that we can't ignore.....we don't live in a black and white world.
9
"Obama administration, defended the rules as making the best use of limited resources. Without them, he said, fewer dangerous people might get deported. “There are 10 seats on the bus, they go to the first 10 you grab,” Mr. Sandweg said. “It diminishes the chances that it’s a violent offender.”"
This is the part that conservative voters are incapable of understanding. Math.
This is the part that conservative voters are incapable of understanding. Math.
9
Nonsense!
4
Sure, what person in a position of authority wouldn't want unrestrained power? For everybody to shut up and let you do your job the way you want to? Wouldn't that be great?
The problem is, there is no guarantee that the person in the position of authority will exercise power wisely or judiciously. Power, by its nature, has a tendency to corrupt, and even well-meaning individuals can lose sight of that when you give them unfettered authority. That's why we have a system of checks and balances on every level. That's why we expect transparency and accountability in government. That's why our way of government restrains those in positions of authority rather than to give them a blank check.
The problem is, there is no guarantee that the person in the position of authority will exercise power wisely or judiciously. Power, by its nature, has a tendency to corrupt, and even well-meaning individuals can lose sight of that when you give them unfettered authority. That's why we have a system of checks and balances on every level. That's why we expect transparency and accountability in government. That's why our way of government restrains those in positions of authority rather than to give them a blank check.
8
Let's just say, for the sake of argument, that ICE agents manage to round up and deport every single illegal alien in the entire country.
What then?
Does anyone seriously believe that even if that fantasy were to come true, that agencies like ICE will simply say "Mission Accomplished!," close down their operations and go home? Like all bureaucracies, ICE will seek to perpetuate itself, and some new "other" will have to be found. It might be trans people. Or gay people. Or mixed-race people.
Or Jews.
It's very easy to stand by and applaud things like this when you're not the one being targeted, and history has shown that this is a slippery slope that doesn't end well. Yes, illegal immigration needs to be dealt with (charging and fining the people who employ them would be a good start) but the creation of an unfettered police state is not the way to do it.
What then?
Does anyone seriously believe that even if that fantasy were to come true, that agencies like ICE will simply say "Mission Accomplished!," close down their operations and go home? Like all bureaucracies, ICE will seek to perpetuate itself, and some new "other" will have to be found. It might be trans people. Or gay people. Or mixed-race people.
Or Jews.
It's very easy to stand by and applaud things like this when you're not the one being targeted, and history has shown that this is a slippery slope that doesn't end well. Yes, illegal immigration needs to be dealt with (charging and fining the people who employ them would be a good start) but the creation of an unfettered police state is not the way to do it.
18
I am a retired attorney living in southwestern Kansas. Our area is more brown than white. I have both prosecuted and defended people on both sides of the immigration divide.
I want to tell all of you who think ICE ought to come to places like this and just round up everyone who is undocumented that it will not work. It will not work because there are too many "legal" brown people here. I defy ICE to do a roundup that does not violate the civil rights of US Citizens. Second, the only effective way to end the jobs for people who are not documented is to prosecute the employers. No one would come here to live if there were no jobs. Period.
I have seen all kinds of employers offer to jobs to people they know have no legal papers. Some employers pretend they do not know the status of their employees. Others do not even pretend. They do not even withhold American employee taxes. I have seen both. ICE has seen both.
Everyone gets along here for the most part. We live in a world that is both English and Spanish. We are all better off for it. Lazy high school dropouts see no reason to take these jobs. They are beneath them. I've seen that and so has ICE.
Until we see a bunch of Anglos rounded up on ICE buses, leave us alone. Your blatant racism has no place here. Yes, I am accusing ICE of racism and I am accusing the current president of racism. When there is no white face on the bus, you're racists.
Leave us alone. We are fine and we can handle our own.
I want to tell all of you who think ICE ought to come to places like this and just round up everyone who is undocumented that it will not work. It will not work because there are too many "legal" brown people here. I defy ICE to do a roundup that does not violate the civil rights of US Citizens. Second, the only effective way to end the jobs for people who are not documented is to prosecute the employers. No one would come here to live if there were no jobs. Period.
I have seen all kinds of employers offer to jobs to people they know have no legal papers. Some employers pretend they do not know the status of their employees. Others do not even pretend. They do not even withhold American employee taxes. I have seen both. ICE has seen both.
Everyone gets along here for the most part. We live in a world that is both English and Spanish. We are all better off for it. Lazy high school dropouts see no reason to take these jobs. They are beneath them. I've seen that and so has ICE.
Until we see a bunch of Anglos rounded up on ICE buses, leave us alone. Your blatant racism has no place here. Yes, I am accusing ICE of racism and I am accusing the current president of racism. When there is no white face on the bus, you're racists.
Leave us alone. We are fine and we can handle our own.
24
American was seen as a 'sucker' by the rest of the World, including our Western allies. Refugees, undesirables, criminals were all dumped into America and let her pay for it due to white guilt. Glad Trump is making America unattractive place for law-breakers, let them go to Canada and Europe, let's see how quickly they can absorb multiculturism. I waited 7 years before I got my legal papers and then came to America, last 8 years it has been a free for all, illegals, refugees, work visas to replace Americans, H1-b, j1, l1, b1....and host of others to keep Americans down. This former liberal is tired of the economist, academics, and well meaning Liberals who are clueless about the reality on the ground. Time to take America back for Americans.
15
Godspeed Mr. President. Bless You!
7
Illegal is illegal is illegal
Enforce our laws
They have NO right to be here
Enforce our laws
They have NO right to be here
8
You are ignoring the point of this -- people with valid paperwork, valid reason to be here, completely legal are being interrogated, detained. How about the children's author who was coming here legally to visit? How about the visiting French historian who spent ten hours in detention? How about this, the Canadian couple who was fingerprinted and scanned? I can't understand the lack of humanity of anyone who thinks this is okay.
http://calgaryherald.com/storyline/calgary-seniors-shocked-at-being-fing...
http://calgaryherald.com/storyline/calgary-seniors-shocked-at-being-fing...
5
My Father's wife, mother, father, sister and daughter were all "rounded up" and killed by the Nazis - why? Because the regime didn't want them in the country. And the rest of the world looked on. My Father and Mother spent years in prisoner of war camps in Russia after fleeing from a regime that was racist, putting one race ahead of others as superior, and trying to get rid of those who the "leader" felt were inferior.
And the rest of the world looked on.
What is going on here goes in the US is an unbelievable parallel. Please, please let's not just "look on" saying that "its time for the administration to do their job". People in Nazi Germany wanted to believe what the regime told them... and they did. The media was shut down, just like it is being now.
Let's not stand idle - let's not allow history to repeat itself.
And the rest of the world looked on.
What is going on here goes in the US is an unbelievable parallel. Please, please let's not just "look on" saying that "its time for the administration to do their job". People in Nazi Germany wanted to believe what the regime told them... and they did. The media was shut down, just like it is being now.
Let's not stand idle - let's not allow history to repeat itself.
8
I'm more than happy to speed dial ICE and tell them to pick up immigrants who are committing violent crimes. Unfortunately, at iCE nobody is there to pick up the phone, for ICE is too busy going after the low hanging fruit instead of prioritizing resources to rid our streets of these violent criminals. In other words ICE would rather fill a bus full of old ladies than criminals---not smart.
who are no different than US citizens who commit crimes.
who are no different than US citizens who commit crimes.
4
The links that you e mail are not working.
161 people with felony and misdemeanor convictions rounded up in California? Why do the media and all liberal Democrats show concern when the country is waking up from a very long nightmare, facing the bleak truth: criminals roaming the streets are not good for the country, even if they do fit the liberal criteria of illegals to whom we should show "compassion." What are we coming to in this country? Is the next step to release those on death row? I call this penchant mighty dangerous indeed!
11
Nobody is saying that violent criminals should not be deported. The issue is that they're trying to criminalize a whole community of mostly peaceful people whose crime is working without authorization. They want to criminalize them in the media so that people won't feel any compassion for them. If somebody is deported and then crosses the border again, it's a felony. So don't assume that every felon they're deporting has committed a violent crime. Some of them just crossed the border looking for work.
5
"Is the next step to release those on death row? "
All of the liberal "progressives" are calling for the release of "non-violent" drug dealers now in prison. If a significant number of illegal aliens are deported, there just might be enough jobs available for these ex-convicts to keep them from committing more crimes.
All of the liberal "progressives" are calling for the release of "non-violent" drug dealers now in prison. If a significant number of illegal aliens are deported, there just might be enough jobs available for these ex-convicts to keep them from committing more crimes.
4
If we started arresting the employers who hire illegal immigrants we wouldn't have this issue. They come here because they know they will find work and employers get cheap labor that they don't have to provide benefits for. Rounding them up makes a good show for Trump supporters but it does nothing to fix the issue. Our politicians have no incentive to really fix the issue, too much money to be had from the current system.
Desperate people are leaving horrible situations trying to create a new life. Most of these people are hard working and have a better appreciation for the USA then the Americans born here because they know how lucky we are.
These Ice agents sound like the Gestapo. They are empowered to round up people like animals. But they are also caught in an impossible situation because our politicians have let them down by making them the enforcers instead of resolving the issue in a responsible manner.
Desperate people are leaving horrible situations trying to create a new life. Most of these people are hard working and have a better appreciation for the USA then the Americans born here because they know how lucky we are.
These Ice agents sound like the Gestapo. They are empowered to round up people like animals. But they are also caught in an impossible situation because our politicians have let them down by making them the enforcers instead of resolving the issue in a responsible manner.
18
Here's the deal. Travel Ban - Muslim Ban - Bomb goes off here in U.S.. ISIS says --- nice job President Trump...Who cares if the terrorist is "home-grown"...not President Twitter...not the boys outside Mosul...
And now let's get on with the Oscars...
And now let's get on with the Oscars...
7
There seem to be abuses of valid visa holders from friendly countries, eg., Australia. And there seems to be a bullying attitude toward Americans returning from travel abroad, too. Any comments from border control about these?
8
Our border and immigration agents are wonderful
Always say " welcome home"
Always say " welcome home"
2
I listened to a group of people I once called friends in the throes of hatred and anger reminiscent of the Nazi's inflamed with hatred of immigrants and democrats. I think I've heard enough of their primitive rancid minds. I shun them now and feel much better not being their friend for I would never want to be identified as a part of their lynch mob.
For all of my sixty odd years, I was proud of Americans for wanting freedom for all and being what I thought was highly educated. Now I know better and I'm deeply disappointed and feel like a stranger in my own country.
There are more captives than immigrants. An entire nation has been captured and duped by a truly evil Television industry that brought us this very un-American administration.
Only a real live Devil would rise to such a high level appealing to hatred and anger and then reward the followers with more hatred and anger.
Where is the Church on all this or are they remaining silent like during WWII?
For all of my sixty odd years, I was proud of Americans for wanting freedom for all and being what I thought was highly educated. Now I know better and I'm deeply disappointed and feel like a stranger in my own country.
There are more captives than immigrants. An entire nation has been captured and duped by a truly evil Television industry that brought us this very un-American administration.
Only a real live Devil would rise to such a high level appealing to hatred and anger and then reward the followers with more hatred and anger.
Where is the Church on all this or are they remaining silent like during WWII?
17
The church recognizes the need to obey the law, something this country if finally beginning to do. If we want to admit felons into the country all we need to do is change the law but I somehow doubt that legislation would get very far.
6
Patrick - The church remain silent? Like when they were shuffling pedophile priests across state lines which is a felony. That same church is passing around the collection plate and telling their Hispanic parishioners to choose life as the church is still paying off the multi-million dollar settlements to the children that they abused over the decades. These people of the church are asking for money from those who have the least to give and the most likely to be exploited.
After 60 odd years you don't really think the church is just supporting illegal immigration for the humanity of it do you?
If you want to talk about evil then lets start there.
After 60 odd years you don't really think the church is just supporting illegal immigration for the humanity of it do you?
If you want to talk about evil then lets start there.
1
Funny how when it was "Stop & Frisk" in the 'hood, there wasn't much discussion.
10
You are spot on. Stop and frisk and nobody cared but ask for documentation or look at one's record and now suddenly that's racist and profiling.
I do not want illegal residents here. Some of these people have had 20 years to obtain citizenship or pending citizenship status and they did nothing. That is a crime in my opinion. If they came here to escape a drug cartel they should have applied for asylum.
I do not want illegal residents here. Some of these people have had 20 years to obtain citizenship or pending citizenship status and they did nothing. That is a crime in my opinion. If they came here to escape a drug cartel they should have applied for asylum.
6
That because it got results, meaning arrests of criminals, and so will this action by ICE.
It is not a matter of color, it is a matter of law.
It is not a matter of color, it is a matter of law.
2
The hysteria about this is almost funny if it weren't so sad. I'm sure there were no crocodile tears shed when the IRS targeted Tea Party groups illegally by sharing private information to opposition groups and denying fair processing for them.
Mexico just deported dozens of Cubans following president Obama's executive order. Were they being Gestapo thugs or simply enforcing their laws? Chill out.
Mexico just deported dozens of Cubans following president Obama's executive order. Were they being Gestapo thugs or simply enforcing their laws? Chill out.
16
A question to either Nicholas, Caitlin or Ron: Can someone please provide some ICE numbers as to:
How many violent offenders have been captured?
How many sexual assault offender have been captured?
Will these offenders serve their time here and then removed or are they sent to a dentition center and then immediately sent to their country of origin.
How many violent offenders have been captured?
How many sexual assault offender have been captured?
Will these offenders serve their time here and then removed or are they sent to a dentition center and then immediately sent to their country of origin.
5
On the plus side, when there is a labor shortage the wages will go up to a point that employers can not afford. This will ideally encourage the increase of automation and further hasten the much needed destruction of the work.
6
So what if wages go up? I'm tired of corporate welfare. We the taxpayers have to make up the difference by giving illegals food stamps, free medical and free schools. Here in Texas we pay county "hospital tax" and a "school district tax" plus other taxes based on our homes value. I pay my premiums for health insurance plus my out-of-pocket med expenses. Why do I have to pay another $2,000 a year for the illegals to go to the county hospital for free?
5
I'm not saying you should? I'm also not saying wages will go up in a way to be anti-crackdown. I'm saying I want wages to go up so that this encourages automation innovation. I want automation to happen. Not just for immigrant labor but for all jobs. Your's included (if you are employed and not retired or some other issue). Abolish every job possible with automation.
Meanwhile, I agree. Taxes need to be cut at all levels of government. For the most part, cut and streamlined can go hand and hand. We need not overly tax people to the point of suffocation. Instead we need to more intelligently spend tax dollars to get more bang for the buck. DeVos I personally see as a necessarily sledge hammer to public schools; ideally we get someone like Peter Thiel who can think outside the box some more; maybe encourage people to get their GEDs at 16 and go off to college from there. High school at this point is just a day care for teenagers..it's a waste of time and a great waste of money who's time for major reform is long over due.
I would argue one non-citizen the US should embrace would be Navinder Sarao for either fed chair or SEC chair. Maybe if we were to get Peter Thiel to replace DeVos eventually, following his reign we could get Anant Agarwal to further continue reforming k-12.
Meanwhile, I agree. Taxes need to be cut at all levels of government. For the most part, cut and streamlined can go hand and hand. We need not overly tax people to the point of suffocation. Instead we need to more intelligently spend tax dollars to get more bang for the buck. DeVos I personally see as a necessarily sledge hammer to public schools; ideally we get someone like Peter Thiel who can think outside the box some more; maybe encourage people to get their GEDs at 16 and go off to college from there. High school at this point is just a day care for teenagers..it's a waste of time and a great waste of money who's time for major reform is long over due.
I would argue one non-citizen the US should embrace would be Navinder Sarao for either fed chair or SEC chair. Maybe if we were to get Peter Thiel to replace DeVos eventually, following his reign we could get Anant Agarwal to further continue reforming k-12.
"Customs agents forcibly checking IDs."
"Forcibly" ? LOL.
Coming up next ...
Airline staff forcibly checking passenger tickets.
Librarians forcibly asking patrons to return over due books.
Hospitals forcibly demanding patients to pay for their medical expenses.
Cops forcibly requesting license and registration for over speeding.
Federal government forcibly ordering citizens to pay their taxes.
NYT forcibly demanding its subscribers to pay for subscription.
What a cruel, forceful world ...
"Forcibly" ? LOL.
Coming up next ...
Airline staff forcibly checking passenger tickets.
Librarians forcibly asking patrons to return over due books.
Hospitals forcibly demanding patients to pay for their medical expenses.
Cops forcibly requesting license and registration for over speeding.
Federal government forcibly ordering citizens to pay their taxes.
NYT forcibly demanding its subscribers to pay for subscription.
What a cruel, forceful world ...
20
Excactly. Cue the crying liberal snowflakes.
12
A strong police force is essential in any police state.
15
It is even more essential in enforcing the law. Obey the law and you'll have no problems and if you break the law, get a lawyer.
We are a nation of laws, or would you prefer Somalia?
We are a nation of laws, or would you prefer Somalia?
13
ICE and CPB have long been problematic. As a white, native-born US citizen with a distinctly English last name, I have been spared the worst of their behavior, but I still find their entitled attitudes disgraceful and their petty rudeness to be wildly inappropriate for any workplace.
Many of my daughter's friends and/or their parents are not US citizens. The parents hold Green Cards or work visas. They are investment bankers, college professors, physicians, etc. One runs US Operations for a multi-national conglomerate. They are highly educated and working in the US legally. Many have lived here for years, some for decades. I know at least three families who plan to permanently return to Europe at the end of the school year. Their employers are going to lose highly productive, highly specialized employees who cannot be replaced.
In the last month, it has only gotten worse. An Australian children's book author and a French academic, both in their 70s, both coming to the US on approved visas, both having visited many times previously have been detained, harassed and threatened. This is simply unacceptable behavior.
The claim that ICE and CPB are targeting dangerous, undocumented aliens is simply untrue. They are targeting anyone who crosses their path. They are out of control and need to be restrained and retrained.
Many of my daughter's friends and/or their parents are not US citizens. The parents hold Green Cards or work visas. They are investment bankers, college professors, physicians, etc. One runs US Operations for a multi-national conglomerate. They are highly educated and working in the US legally. Many have lived here for years, some for decades. I know at least three families who plan to permanently return to Europe at the end of the school year. Their employers are going to lose highly productive, highly specialized employees who cannot be replaced.
In the last month, it has only gotten worse. An Australian children's book author and a French academic, both in their 70s, both coming to the US on approved visas, both having visited many times previously have been detained, harassed and threatened. This is simply unacceptable behavior.
The claim that ICE and CPB are targeting dangerous, undocumented aliens is simply untrue. They are targeting anyone who crosses their path. They are out of control and need to be restrained and retrained.
24
I stopped going to the States about 10 years ago. After 9-11, crossing the border became too much of an ordeal - not so much for me, although I was barked at plenty, but for those, including US citizens, who aren't white or have "foreign"-sounding names. It chafed my conscience to be merely barked at, while others were separated from their families, interrogated, threatened. On my last trip down, an elderly Chinese woman in a wheelchair who spoke little English was berated and ridiculed in front of everyone else in the queue, then wheeled away without her son for questioning. Her apparent crime? She had an apple in her purse and didn't immediately understand the agent's request to hand it over. I never again want to have to stand silent while some two-bit buckaroo abused someone the way she was abused, so now I just stay away. And it's no small sacrifice: most of my friends and my daughter live in the US. They are beginning to understand why I won't go. Also, because I am not a US citizen, I can be disappeared. Doesn't matter that that's unlikely, given my demographic profile; what matters is that it's possible, and LEGAL according to US law.
9
They can be replaced. Professors are forced to be adjunct because there are not enough open positions. As for being detained and harassed at the airport, I am when I go to other countries. Try going through London's Heathrow a few times and have your bags searched and you will know what I mean. Perhaps you can find some malnourished children and elderly people nearby that you can help if you want this to be a better place.
5
How easy is it to find someone qualified to help run a lab at Sloan Kettering? Or who has deep knowledge and experience in the investment markets in Latin America and speaks fluent English, Spanish and Portuguese? There are reasons these people have lived and worked legally in the US for decades.
And, as a US citizen, I have been through Customs and Immigrations at Heathrow, as well as (among others) Charles de Gaulle, Fiumicino, Ben Gurion and Queen Alia Airport in Amman. I have never treated as rudely as I have been treated at JFK, even in those places where I do not speak the language.
The tourist industry in the US is already seeing a contraction and that will only get worse.
I'm not saying that violent criminals should be allowed to stay - please, go to Attica and Green Haven and deport every non-citizen there, I don't want to pay for their upkeep anymore. But harassing academics and authors legally coming to the US to make public appearances and present at conferences is security theater at its most absurd and is excruciatingly costly - in time, resources and reputation. Asking a US citizen, traveling on a US passport, about their religious beliefs and where their grandparents were born is simply unconstitutional.
And, as a US citizen, I have been through Customs and Immigrations at Heathrow, as well as (among others) Charles de Gaulle, Fiumicino, Ben Gurion and Queen Alia Airport in Amman. I have never treated as rudely as I have been treated at JFK, even in those places where I do not speak the language.
The tourist industry in the US is already seeing a contraction and that will only get worse.
I'm not saying that violent criminals should be allowed to stay - please, go to Attica and Green Haven and deport every non-citizen there, I don't want to pay for their upkeep anymore. But harassing academics and authors legally coming to the US to make public appearances and present at conferences is security theater at its most absurd and is excruciatingly costly - in time, resources and reputation. Asking a US citizen, traveling on a US passport, about their religious beliefs and where their grandparents were born is simply unconstitutional.
5
My community is not unique. In my town, working families enjoy a roof over their heads, heat in the cold of winter, loved ones across the kitchen table, talking and laughing. They work, pay taxes, do not receive welfare, and on payday, many wire excess earnings, if any, to their extended families in Mexico, Guatemala, and Salvador.
In my town, these families include thousands of people guilty of one crime, and one crime only. Lack of documentation; they are illegals. Law-abiding illegals except for a piece of paper.
Along comes ICE, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, bullet-headed thugs, many with checkered pasts, to zip-tie people, oblivious to cries and tears and broken hearts.
I know Obama exiled many thousands. I disagree with that. The undocumented with no criminal records need a path to citizenship, not assault and battery and a bus or plane ride to take them thousands of miles from their loved ones.
What is different now is that we have Presidents Bannon and Trump, giving race hatred, gay-bashing, and generalized bullying the White House stamp of approval.
What should an American do to change this?
In my town, these families include thousands of people guilty of one crime, and one crime only. Lack of documentation; they are illegals. Law-abiding illegals except for a piece of paper.
Along comes ICE, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, bullet-headed thugs, many with checkered pasts, to zip-tie people, oblivious to cries and tears and broken hearts.
I know Obama exiled many thousands. I disagree with that. The undocumented with no criminal records need a path to citizenship, not assault and battery and a bus or plane ride to take them thousands of miles from their loved ones.
What is different now is that we have Presidents Bannon and Trump, giving race hatred, gay-bashing, and generalized bullying the White House stamp of approval.
What should an American do to change this?
12
What part of illegal don't you understand? They broke the law. It's called crime. When a murderer is taken away and jailed do the cries of children and broken hearts not matter to you? what about thieves? These illegals stole our jobs, social services and taxes. You have to obey the law.
9
Law abiding people do not break the law by sneaking into another nation without permission
There are not degrees of illegal
They are criminals and we want them out
There are not degrees of illegal
They are criminals and we want them out
1
Have you missed the news or other posts? Many NON-CRIMINAL people, with valid visas and valid reasons to be here have been detained, and deported or almost deported, including an author and a French historian coming here to speak. This is NOT illegal. And as far as stealing our jobs, blame the companies who are outsourcing the work outside the country -- not valid and legal people coming in to the country.
3
In yesterday's NYT there was a photo of Canadian police escorting a Muslim women (wearing a hijab) carrying an infant after she had crossed the border. They were helping her, making sure she didn't slip on the icy path. As I understand the article, men crossing the border are routinely placed in handcuffs, but not women. They are all then taken to a facility where they are checked for criminal or terrorist records. If everything is OK, the handcuffs are removed, and they are escorted to offices where they can apply for asylum. Compare that to the descriptions and photos of our ICE Police in action. We are an embarrassment. We are disgraceful.
15
I'd like to ask the agent in Arizona (quoted in this article), "What part of civil rights and American democracy don't you understand?"
Agents are lying to themselves if they think they are protecting me or other Americans when they swoop down on a working family and deport a parent or child.
My security is not at risk from Latino immigrants working in my community. It IS at risk from security agencies running amok in what used to be a free society.
Agents are lying to themselves if they think they are protecting me or other Americans when they swoop down on a working family and deport a parent or child.
My security is not at risk from Latino immigrants working in my community. It IS at risk from security agencies running amok in what used to be a free society.
21
What part of illegal alien don't you understand? Can I break into your house and stay illegally because my house is not safe?
17
The analogy is wrong. Irregular migrants are not trespassing--they are functioning without administrative approval. The proper analogy is to driving with an expired license. Under international law, irregular migration is a matter of administrative law, nothing more.
Our country is not a piece of private property meant for the exclusive use of the millions already inside. EVERY American has descended from people who were either migrants or victims of human trafficking or victims of oppression and genocide. Those of us already here have no right to slam the doors on today's migrants and asylum seekers.
We need an orderly process for lawful entry. We need to fix the law, not enforce its stupidities. We don't need aggressive enforcement of the flawed, failed, hugely expensive, militarized, and anti-family immigration system that currently PREVENTS newcomers from the orderly, easy, and efficient entry to this country that my own grandparents enjoyed.
Our country is not a piece of private property meant for the exclusive use of the millions already inside. EVERY American has descended from people who were either migrants or victims of human trafficking or victims of oppression and genocide. Those of us already here have no right to slam the doors on today's migrants and asylum seekers.
We need an orderly process for lawful entry. We need to fix the law, not enforce its stupidities. We don't need aggressive enforcement of the flawed, failed, hugely expensive, militarized, and anti-family immigration system that currently PREVENTS newcomers from the orderly, easy, and efficient entry to this country that my own grandparents enjoyed.
6
Again, you are either deliberately not reading, or not understanding. Read the article and other news reports. There are people being arrested, detained, deported who are LEGAL and have valid paperwork and reason to come here. That is the issue here.
2
As one who has lived within a modest distance of the Canadian border for 40+ years and made numerous crossings, the idea of giving border agents either greater discretionary powers or an inflated sense of patriotic mission seems singularly unwise. These folks have the training and intellect of minor functionaries. They are capable of doing a good job within clearly defined procedural boundaries and routines. Anything beyond that is unrealistic.
24
The typical government bureaucrat has far too much power and far too little responsibility, so the more power that they have the more they will abuse it. The only answer would be to make them personally responsible for their misconduct allowing them to be sued for every dollar they have or ever will have and automatic loss of their jobs and pensions.
7
It seems to me that to search the papers of ALL the passenger on a domestic flight without probable cause and without due process is be a violation of the fourth amendment of the constitution:
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause..."
Although it might be argued that being required to show an ID is not unreasonable, can merely being on a flight from San Fransisco be considered probable cause?
James Madison, the constitution's author, stated: "I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations".
15
You are required to have ID to be in a sterile area like the airside portion of an airport, or an airplane. If you think once you are past the TSA you are immune from being asked for an ID or being searched, you are mistaken.
6
After 9/11, the federal agency known as Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) morphed into Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE). From a "service" where assistance to immigrants was the focus, we now have "enforcement" where policing of immigrants is the focus.
Why are 350 million people so threatened by 11 million? Why was this ever an issue in the first place? Have you personally lost your job because a border-jumper took it?
If employers were the subject of "enforcement" for hiring border jumpers, then perhaps a more humane solution could be achieved, and border jumpers would be encouraged to come through the front door where they could "register" themselves for work permits.
Why are 350 million people so threatened by 11 million? Why was this ever an issue in the first place? Have you personally lost your job because a border-jumper took it?
If employers were the subject of "enforcement" for hiring border jumpers, then perhaps a more humane solution could be achieved, and border jumpers would be encouraged to come through the front door where they could "register" themselves for work permits.
18
Who does this President think he is, enforcing laws that liberals don't like?
17
Don Trump and his followers should be deported back to the Abyss from wence they came.
Hatred and anger rule the land.
Don Trump said he was going to instill "Law and Order" yet now, we are faced with chaos, as seen during his campaign.
Don Trump is even lower than a Lynch mob rabble rouser.
Television brought us Don Trump. People are captive indeed; hundreds of millions.
Hatred and anger rule the land.
Don Trump said he was going to instill "Law and Order" yet now, we are faced with chaos, as seen during his campaign.
Don Trump is even lower than a Lynch mob rabble rouser.
Television brought us Don Trump. People are captive indeed; hundreds of millions.
10
"At Kennedy International Airport in New York, passengers arriving after a five-hour flight from San Francisco were asked to show their documents before they were allowed to get off the plane." i'm trying to understand this. are we no longer free to fly with in the USA, with the proper i.d. need to get on the plane, without fear of being tagged for what? flying? under what circumstances is this acceptable? did all passengers on that flight comply? what was the outcome in the end?
11
What are you talking about? Proper identification is required to pass through security, if an airline ticket is purchased at the airport, and when luggage is checked. In short, people cannot board a plane without having shown proper identification at least once and these rules existed before Trump took office.
14
Perhaps they were looking for someone specifically that bypassed boarding security in S.F. Gosh folks, use your imagination.
4
What happened to our humanity? What kind of people have we become?
We had better take a very close look in the mirror if we want to like what we see there in the future.
We had better take a very close look in the mirror if we want to like what we see there in the future.
15
Would people prefer that Trump take a page from Obama's playbook and simply alter statistics to deceive Americans? Trump could change the definition of "deportation" to suit his needs just as Obama did.
If he wants to look like he's deporting more people, he can continue the new measurement, which inflates deportations by including border turnaways. Or if he wants to make it look like fewer deportations, he can go back to the old pre-Obama way, which didn't include border apprehensions.
Or Trump can simply create an entirely new measure, say, by not counting all those who have received prior notices of deportation (which is the bulk of the deportations now) since they were technically served and slated for deportation under the Obama Administration. No need to double count, right?
Unlike Obama, however, Trump is not playing with statistics. He is just enforcing the laws as written, essentially doing the dirty work Obama never did. For that he is being demonized. Go figure.
If he wants to look like he's deporting more people, he can continue the new measurement, which inflates deportations by including border turnaways. Or if he wants to make it look like fewer deportations, he can go back to the old pre-Obama way, which didn't include border apprehensions.
Or Trump can simply create an entirely new measure, say, by not counting all those who have received prior notices of deportation (which is the bulk of the deportations now) since they were technically served and slated for deportation under the Obama Administration. No need to double count, right?
Unlike Obama, however, Trump is not playing with statistics. He is just enforcing the laws as written, essentially doing the dirty work Obama never did. For that he is being demonized. Go figure.
13
Obama deported 2.5 million. Look it up.
3
Where are the protests? Is this less objectionable than the travel ban, or are people tired and giving up?
3
So many comments equating Trump and ICE agents to Nazis.
How about we rework that famous poem written by Martin Niemöller.
First we allowed people to come into our country illegally and they took my neighbors job. I did not speak out because I still had my job. Then, the next wave of people to come here illegally and this time they took my job. I wish I had spoken out when I had the chance.
It is easy to say people here illegally are doing the work American citizens will not do. What's more likely is that they are getting paid a wage that no adult American can live on. Why pay an American the wage they would expect to paint your house when you can drive to your local Home Depot and pickup a couple of people here illegally who will take whatever you offer.
How about we rework that famous poem written by Martin Niemöller.
First we allowed people to come into our country illegally and they took my neighbors job. I did not speak out because I still had my job. Then, the next wave of people to come here illegally and this time they took my job. I wish I had spoken out when I had the chance.
It is easy to say people here illegally are doing the work American citizens will not do. What's more likely is that they are getting paid a wage that no adult American can live on. Why pay an American the wage they would expect to paint your house when you can drive to your local Home Depot and pickup a couple of people here illegally who will take whatever you offer.
21
Border Patrol and ICE Officers should be allowed to enforce the laws on the books. The Obama administration actually directed them not to enforce the laws on the books. Of course enforcement should be concentrated on criminal illegals first and illegals who already have deportation warrants oustanding. Should businesses that employ illegals also be dealt with? Yes, enforcement should be across the board and that includes accountasbility and enforcement of visas etc.. Legal immigration should be structured to allow people in as always with the goal to benefit the Untied States which legal immigration does. Businesses in the US should be able to hire legal immigrants with legal guest worker status to fill jobs that Americans won't do. Most Americans in poll after poll want our borders secure. Most Americans also feel that illegals who have been here for a long time should have a pathway to citizenship which includes meeting a criteria involving many steps, but ultimately results in citizenship. That program should be a one time program only. That program only initiates after our borders are clearly secure. That goal will be expedited if the e-verify system is actively implemented and enforced by Immigration authorities, because the ability to get a job will be much more difficult.
Across the board enforcement has almost never been in place as both parties have only had one sided emforcement policies.
Across the board enforcement has almost never been in place as both parties have only had one sided emforcement policies.
9
In 1954, President Eisenhower launched a roundup that removed about 1.5 unauthorized immigrants in just several months. The operation involved only 750 immigration and border patrol officers, a fraction of the force ICE and the Border Patrol could marshal today. In addition to those deported, hundreds of thousands illegal immigrants voluntarily left the country because they feared arrests. However, most Americans wouldn’t insist on the removal of all unauthorized immigrates or even most illegal immigrants. They want to stop future illegal immigration, which is something that the federal government has proven it can’t do alone. We should pass congressional legislation that empowers states, cities and counties to arrest migrants for unlawfully residing in their jurisdictions. We should change policy to automatically deny asylum to all asylum seekers who enter the country illegally. We should amend the citizenship clause to grant birthright citizenship only to children born to U.S. parents. Once these measures are in effect, we should offer citizenship to Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals enrollees and permanent legal resident status to other unauthorized immigrants who have established families in America.
9
Every point on your wish list is either impossible or unconstitutional. You won't take citizenship away from babies born in the U.S. without a constitutional amendment, and you're not going to get it. You won't get state, city and county law enforcement to do the job of the federal government because it interferes with their ability to do their own job. The federal government alone--ICE and Border Patrol--enforces immigration.
The only way to prevent future illegal immigration is to impose penalties on employers. Walls and mass deportations aren't effective.
The only way to prevent future illegal immigration is to impose penalties on employers. Walls and mass deportations aren't effective.
6
Anyone who says that illegal
immigration is o.k. and that it's perfectly fine for millions of illegal immigrants to disrespect our laws and to cut in front of those who are patiently waiting in line to immigrate here legally is intellectually dishonest.
Hypocrites all.
immigration is o.k. and that it's perfectly fine for millions of illegal immigrants to disrespect our laws and to cut in front of those who are patiently waiting in line to immigrate here legally is intellectually dishonest.
Hypocrites all.
20
Although some of these agents may have police training, that appears to be incidental to the listed job qualifications. They are giving real police officers a bad reputation. And no, we don't trust them because they are lack discretion.
6
So ICE agents now have the discretion to meet quota by picking up a hard-working dad vs. having to chase and engage with violent felons and gang members. It's pretty clear that ICE will leave the really bad guys for the real Police. No wonder the real Police aren't happy! So let's not call it a "Police State" in fairness to the Police, who do a good job protecting us, but rather a "State of Terror" we all will eventually feel the power of.
12
This type of behavior by ice agents to be checking IDs on domestic flights, checking for IDs on people just going about their business has to be seriously examined and stopped. This is the beginning of a POLICE STATE where anyone can be asked for an ID and arrested just on a whim of the "ice" agent.
My father had visited East Germany long long time ago and had told me that NO ONE, yes NO ONE, looked up or spoke with anyone else. Everyone seemed afraid. This is what is going to happen in the USA. You guys better wake up.
My father had visited East Germany long long time ago and had told me that NO ONE, yes NO ONE, looked up or spoke with anyone else. Everyone seemed afraid. This is what is going to happen in the USA. You guys better wake up.
13
Maybe mind your own business? I looked up how Australians treat their immigrants. They stick them on islands, away from the general population. A bit hypocritical to receive your moral lessons, don't you think?
9
Americans who are thrilled to see mass deportations clear their areas of "unauthorized workers" had better have a plan for dealing with the blowback when prices go up. The interplay of supply and demand is an established mechanism that will have an impact on every household. As much as people on a power trip would like to be able to impose rigid regulations on lesser mortals, real life and the marketplace are considerably more fluid. Generating a police state atmosphere in America will cause a political earthquake in 2018. Maybe that is what ultimately has to happen so that we finally enact the necessary reforms. We don't live in 1960 any more; the value of the dollar is different; the structure of the labor market is different. We are witnessing the last great flailing of white supremacism, a doomed delusion. When President Polk walked off with about half of Mexico's land in 1840, any reasonable person could have predicted that those populations would flow back in over time. We absorbed a large amount of Spanish-speaking territory; don't act so surprised that they act as if they belong here. We need each other. Sharing and realism are better, and also more profitable, than bullying and wishful thinking.
5
The major catch to this notion that he's somehow "protecting" us from terrorists or mad criminals is that none of these people is actually all that much of a threat. Additionally, what's to stop the people (presumably) deposited barely over the border into Mexico from just coming back?
6
The WALL will stop them from coming back!
5
I hope this is irony.
No, the wall isn't going to stop anyone. You'll just put immigration in the hands of the cartels, who already have burrowed more tunnels under the existing wall than anyone can ever find.
No, the wall isn't going to stop anyone. You'll just put immigration in the hands of the cartels, who already have burrowed more tunnels under the existing wall than anyone can ever find.
3
Hahahahaha! At a cost of well over 30 Billion of OUR MONEY. And they are doing this NOW. Your WALL won't be built in your lifetime.
1
I would be willing to be that the "North American Indians and Eskimos" are wishing ICE was around when the European Illegal aliens came across the big wall... called the ocean. The Europeans were murderers, rapists, slavers, religious zealots, carrying horrible diseases, pollution, war. Europe wasn't sending their best.
11
You are quite wrong in your sweeping, inaccurate statements. There was no concept of national sovereignty in the early decades or even centuries in the New World because there was no nation, hence there could not be illegal immigration. Period. Moreover, your sarcasm notwithstanding, the vast majority of early migrants were fleeing religious persecution or were simply adventurers hoping to find mineral wealth like that found in Peru and elsewhere in the Americas. Britain and Europe most certainly did not disgorge hordes of criminals onto these shores. But more than that, my ancestors (in the colonies since 1632) and those of millions of loyal Americans of all ethnic origins came here to create a uniquely valuable society through the dint of their contributions.
8
Re: "adventurers hoping to find mineral wealth like that found in Peru and elsewhere in the Americas."
They didn't just find those minerals. These "adventurers" enslaved the native Indian population and imported Africans to extract mineral wealth from the throughout Americas to send back to Europe. Hundreds of thousands died in those mines.
As to your other point, England definitely sent convicts to colonial Virginia, Maryland, and Georgia where they were used as labor.
They didn't just find those minerals. These "adventurers" enslaved the native Indian population and imported Africans to extract mineral wealth from the throughout Americas to send back to Europe. Hundreds of thousands died in those mines.
As to your other point, England definitely sent convicts to colonial Virginia, Maryland, and Georgia where they were used as labor.
4
So, the different tribes of Indians and Eskimo didn't have their own lands? But.....now that the Europeans start describing the now declared Americas as their own...the reality of national sovereignty becomes just that...reality. Then because the Europeans have declared it theirs after they have declared it to be a part of their national sovereignty, they now have some self-declared rights to kill those living here "first" because it was now on the Europeans land???? Also, you really need to check your history on who was banished to this country first. How about checking out Captain Cook's arrival and the number of Eskimo and Indians that died shorty thereafter due to the spread of disease. Or how about the disease that was brought over from Europe and killed hundreds of thousands of Indians. Typical republican, rewriting history to make the whites look like heroes. Until America accepts the truth about America, the insanity will continue.
3
"ICE" sounds cool. But it is a dirty job that gets no praise but all the blames. It is a tough job, but someone has to do it. Illegal immigration is hurting the country no matter how does one justify it. It is inhuman that may break up the family or relationship. But it also hurts legal immigration and normal society functioning. In the long haul, it will be better for everyone.
11
Undocumented immigrants are an essential part of many states' economies. For example, if your produce was grown in America, it was picked by an undocumented immigrant. Far from hurting our economies, they are boosting our GDP. If Trump succeeds in deporting 11 million people, you'll feel it in your pocketbook--and you'll pay for it twice over because these deportations are going to be very expensive to the American taxpayer.
6
If families are truly families with loving members, they will move as a family unit. What kind of values are people showing when they abandon their children? Even if the child has U.S. citizenship, if it is a minor, it should stay with the family, if the parents are deported.
3
"The Old Man's Back Again" (Dedicated to The Neo-Stalinist Regime) (Scott 4) by Scott Walker
2
Maybe all of the people out there who think that all of their problems stem from illegal immigrants should consider this: One of the main reasons Washington (congress) has been unable to come to a consensus about illegals in this country because the big business people who own our congressmen don't want the majority of the illegals in this country to be deported. They can't run their businesses without them. Scare the illegals enough so they won't complain about the substandard pay and working conditions they have to put up with but don't deport them because then those businesses might have to try to hire Americans to replace them. Remember this, the majority of illegals would not be here if nobody was willing to hire them.
10
It's called SLAVERY and it is immoral.
5
How is deportation going to force companies to pay higher salaries? The answer is that it isn't.
Rush Limbaugh, et al, have convinced millions of working stiffs to distrust 'union thugs," with the result his listeners now work harder for less pay and blame immigrants.
For years large companies have managed to squeeze more productivity from fewer workers with threats of layoffs, irregular hours, rotating shift work, no overtime pay, fraudulent time cards, etc. The wealthy shareholders and owners have literally been able to buy members of congress and state legislatures to eliminate unions.
Walmart is the exemplar, but there are thousands of similar examples. There is a lot more money to be made for shareholders by scaring employees with fears of union thugs than paying having employees organize and demand equitable wages.
Take a moment to visualize a future when illegal/legal/undocumented immigrants are gone. Walmart owners and shareholders will incentivize management to find ways to continue to pay low wages. Unions will still be marginalized. Rush Limbaugh, et al, will shift the blame from Wall Street, shareholders and management to find some other group to blame for the lack of increases to take home pay for working stiffs.
I grew up in a blue collar neighborhood in a rust belt city. This is the long con played over 40 years.
Rush Limbaugh, et al, have convinced millions of working stiffs to distrust 'union thugs," with the result his listeners now work harder for less pay and blame immigrants.
For years large companies have managed to squeeze more productivity from fewer workers with threats of layoffs, irregular hours, rotating shift work, no overtime pay, fraudulent time cards, etc. The wealthy shareholders and owners have literally been able to buy members of congress and state legislatures to eliminate unions.
Walmart is the exemplar, but there are thousands of similar examples. There is a lot more money to be made for shareholders by scaring employees with fears of union thugs than paying having employees organize and demand equitable wages.
Take a moment to visualize a future when illegal/legal/undocumented immigrants are gone. Walmart owners and shareholders will incentivize management to find ways to continue to pay low wages. Unions will still be marginalized. Rush Limbaugh, et al, will shift the blame from Wall Street, shareholders and management to find some other group to blame for the lack of increases to take home pay for working stiffs.
I grew up in a blue collar neighborhood in a rust belt city. This is the long con played over 40 years.
13
I am waiting for the various intelligence agencies along with the FBI, CIA to start arresting the law breaking and treasonous congressional and presidential representatives. I almost added GBU to the list but caught myself. Trump has contact with them.
6
The minute ICE starts rounding up illegal Irish immigrants in Boston, at their homes, schools, places of worship and work is when there is parity in this ICE dragnet. Maybe then white Americans will know what it's like to be accosted and confronted simply because what they look like be it at work, church, or school.
The externalities of this unthinking, disjointed, venture into answering campaign propaganda go beyond just immigrants, it denigrates people for example who for centuries were already living in the United States before it became the United States.
The externalities of this unthinking, disjointed, venture into answering campaign propaganda go beyond just immigrants, it denigrates people for example who for centuries were already living in the United States before it became the United States.
16
Really, we could care less if they are from Ireland or Timbuktu....illegal is illegal. Stop making this a race issue. Gracias
1
I question Trumps approach as it would seem to divert attention/resources away from those that we most want out of the country focusing instead on low level, none violent individuals.
Personally I don't see a national crisis with respect to Mexicans and illegal immigration. I do however understand that it's been a rallying cry for the far right who stoke the fire that that every murder, every rape and every good paying job are somehow connected to an illegal immigrant.
Personally I don't see a national crisis with respect to Mexicans and illegal immigration. I do however understand that it's been a rallying cry for the far right who stoke the fire that that every murder, every rape and every good paying job are somehow connected to an illegal immigrant.
9
Obviously all immigration agents aren't thugs. But those that aren't are going to have to do some real soul searching now. Obama was bad enough but at least there were some constraints. Spicer's heavy breathing giddy talk of how they are now unshackled was terrifying to the extreme. And to read these quotes by immigration agents portends a tremendous degree of brutality and violation. What a charge of excitement it must be to go after weak and traumatized people. Hovering here and there, laying in wait to pounce. Doing it in packs makes it it even more of a high. The weaker and more vulnerable the target the more emboldened they seem. Yet for some reason they cringe at being depicted as people who go after grandmothers and tear families apart. That is except those who get off on it.
Obviously there are those who love the the idea of people being rounded up, humiliated and brutalized. But leaving them aside, do the others who support these actions really think once unleashed these forces of repression can be contained and won't spread into almost all areas of life. It is shocking that people's resentment towards undocumented immigrants and bitterness toward the perceived and at timers real sanctimonious attitudes of liberals and celebrities would be so strong that they could allow this to happen.
Obviously there are those who love the the idea of people being rounded up, humiliated and brutalized. But leaving them aside, do the others who support these actions really think once unleashed these forces of repression can be contained and won't spread into almost all areas of life. It is shocking that people's resentment towards undocumented immigrants and bitterness toward the perceived and at timers real sanctimonious attitudes of liberals and celebrities would be so strong that they could allow this to happen.
6
It just goes to show you, when enforcing current laws designed and passed by both Democrats and Republicans and signed into law by the President is news that is pathetic. When Obama deported 2.5 million where was the outrage? Trump deported 700.
12
Obama turned a lot of people back at the border, and looked to deport actual "bad hombres" not the imaginary ones Trump is rounding up. That's the difference, hence the outrage.
9
CF:
These are not "imaginary ones." They were slated for deportation under Obama. He's just leaving his mess for Trump to clean up.
These are not "imaginary ones." They were slated for deportation under Obama. He's just leaving his mess for Trump to clean up.
8
Peter.....President Obama did it without out the grandstanding ....he simply enforced the law in a compassionate way.Trump is just a blustering leader who wants to ingratiate himself to his supporter base.
2
About time we brought sanity to our immigration process. Why should some people wait years to enter the country when all they have to do is sneak in illegally and contact the nearest ACLU office. The next thing they do is laugh at all the hnest people who wait their turn. Good citzenship lesson for all Cheat, steal and laugh at the honest suckers.
15
For all of the commenters here cheering on these ICE goons for "enforcing the law," please look at the tweeted photo in the article of them checking ID's of passengers getting off of a *domestic* flight, ID's they presumably had to show to get on the plane in the first place.
These are the tactics used in a police state, and this ugly genie is very hard to put back in the bottle once it's been set loose. Is that what we want here in America, a new Stasi?
These are the tactics used in a police state, and this ugly genie is very hard to put back in the bottle once it's been set loose. Is that what we want here in America, a new Stasi?
21
Big deal. You have to show ID to get on a plane, so presumably all onnthe plane have ID and have nothing to fear unless it is a fake ID. I had to show my passport all over Europe, Mexico, South America and Asia. So what? Stop crying. If one is not doing anything wrong they have nothing to fear.
2
Not to point out the obvious ... but the SS also had "freedom" to do whatever they wanted to anyone the wanted.
12
It seems that anyone that has dealt with Mr. Trump, in any way - business, personal, financial, marital, leaves the relationship victimized at worst, shocked and disappointed at best. Would the GOP please fire him, before he uses the White House as his personal urinal and trashes it beyond repair. Something only a terrorist, an agent for a foreigh power, would relish.
11
I find this extremely troubling for any number of reasons. The Obama administration deported more undocumented immigrants than all previous Presidents combined, so just how were ICE agents prevented from doing their job? Under Obama, they were merely told to prioritize their limited time and resources by focusing on serious criminals. So in celebrating the Trump policy, they are effectively saying they are glad they are now allowed to be indiscriminate.
I also worry about what comes next. If ICE is going to hire another 10,000 agents, who are these people going to be? Not, I fear, and to borrow from Trump, the best. Those people already have jobs. They are going to be people with, I fear, little sense of nuance, and perhaps a little too gung-ho. Some, I imagine, might be decent people.
The blatant support for Trump also troubles me; it gives the impression that they are going to be Trump's shock troops, not protectors of American public safety. Not the same things.
I also worry about what comes next. If ICE is going to hire another 10,000 agents, who are these people going to be? Not, I fear, and to borrow from Trump, the best. Those people already have jobs. They are going to be people with, I fear, little sense of nuance, and perhaps a little too gung-ho. Some, I imagine, might be decent people.
The blatant support for Trump also troubles me; it gives the impression that they are going to be Trump's shock troops, not protectors of American public safety. Not the same things.
14
You got it. The Rambos get to round everybody up now, no discretion required. Nice, huh?
4
There are 956,000 illegal immigrants who have exhausted all appeals and are marked for deportation, from the Obama administration. There should be no controversy if these people are collected up and sent out of the country.
14
First they have to find them... that was intentional with the catch and release program
6
I'm sorry to say I have little sympathy in situations like this. If you overstay a tourist visa with the intention to stay in the country without proper documentation, you have done a bad thing and deserve to be deported, with few exceptions. I am a strong advocate in favor of legal immigration and in favor of the acceptance of a greater number of refugees from both the Middle East and Latin America, but I fail to see why deporting people who choose to remain in this country without proper permission is so controversial.
"Some people don't have the resources to get the proper paperwork," you might say. And I say to that: "Then they don't get to come to the United States." Immigration to the U.S. is a privilege, not a right. There is considerable reason to fear the harsh and draconian manner in which these policies are carried out, but I see nothing wrong with them in principle.
"Some people don't have the resources to get the proper paperwork," you might say. And I say to that: "Then they don't get to come to the United States." Immigration to the U.S. is a privilege, not a right. There is considerable reason to fear the harsh and draconian manner in which these policies are carried out, but I see nothing wrong with them in principle.
15
This practice is frightening and harkens images of domestic interrogation forces only seen in autocratic countries. I'm appalled by this.
8
And how many illegals have been arrested and deported who work for the Trump Corporations?
9
Are the ICE agents knocking on the doors of the employers of these immigrants in the early morning? Somehow I doubt it.
12
I'm very heartened to hear that ICE agents are having more fun now, and that their discretion is being trusted.
Here's my question: after the ICE agents have had all their fun and deported 11 million people, in what way, exactly, is the country going to be better off?
Here's my question: after the ICE agents have had all their fun and deported 11 million people, in what way, exactly, is the country going to be better off?
7
Glad you asked, here's just a few:
1. Less crime.
2. Fewer gang members.
3. Less unemployment of Americans.
4. English restored as our national language.
5. Less demand on public social services.
6. Less freeway congestion in big cities.
7. Less consumption of precious water in California.
8. Higher learning in public schools. (no catering to foreign speakers).
9. Less illegal drugs.
10. Greater respect for the law (because its being enforced).
1. Less crime.
2. Fewer gang members.
3. Less unemployment of Americans.
4. English restored as our national language.
5. Less demand on public social services.
6. Less freeway congestion in big cities.
7. Less consumption of precious water in California.
8. Higher learning in public schools. (no catering to foreign speakers).
9. Less illegal drugs.
10. Greater respect for the law (because its being enforced).
14
I am on that SFO to JFK flight frequently. If a CBP agent asked me for an ID as I was getting off the plane, I would not submit and i would tell them to arrest me. This is way too reminiscent of the gestapo checking people's papers at train stations or random stops in a city or on a roadway. These people must be resisted if we are not to lose our country to a despotic dictator.
18
I'm with you.
6
Good for you that you have the free time and resources to grandstand with federal agents. The rest of us are mature adults with obligations that we need to fulfill. We will walk past your latter-day Abbie Hoffman stunt and get on with our day. However if your antics cause a delay in deplaning, we will be angry with you, not the ICE agents.
7
I am sorry for your loss.
3
It may well be the Republicans have a plan here. First appoint a Secretary of Education that doesn’t believe in educating the poor, then create jobs for the poor by deporting not the criminals but the people qualified to fill jobs without an education. Good circular reasoning. The country saves money by eliminating public schools and increases employment by making menial jobs available. Bingo! Two campaign promises checked off the list in one fell swoop.
7
Some how this seems like storm troopers raiding homes, looking for Jewish people. Makes me wonder who will be next. Perhaps any citizen with darker skin tones will be next to be detained. I saw how African American people were treated in the deep South in the 50 and 60's. And, btw, I'm a Southern born, protestant white boy, so I think I can make the above analogy from a neutral point of view.
12
It doesn't matter what kind of boy you are Robert, that is an absurd analogy. Being Jewish is not illegal in the USA. Entering the country illegally is.
8
I am a lifelong Democrat and I welcome the enforcement of laws. The only concern is that the law is not enforced fairly. Will ICE be in Chinatown? Russian or Jewish Brooklyn? Korean Flushing? West Indian Brooklyn? Bohemian sqautervilles? Indian Queens? There are more than enough people who have over stayed travel and student visas to go around fairly and jot just target Hispanics.
16
According to some stats, Asians are now the biggest group coming in illegally. And, yes, what about all the white Europeans, and affluent students overstaying? I guess besides Mexicans and other Latin Americans, they will target Muslims. And leave the white Christians alone.
6
ICE - Power tripping to boost their own self-esteem by harassing the vulnerable.
13
From the Canadian side also, this piece of reporting is a confirmation of the experience many Canadian citizens or genuine visa holders encounter every day at any entry point to the United States.
The immigration and customs officials can discover any flimsy or contrived reason to deny entry into the United States. If the Canadian citizens seeking entry into the USA look non-White, the officials ask the country of their birth. If they were born in certain Muslim majority (or, listed countries), they could be returned. The borders have been sealed and security tightened since 9/11. The officers were given wide discretionary authority by president Bush. His conservative cousin in Canada, the P.M. Steven Harper, didn't take up the Canadian cause ever. Not sure about Justin Trudeau, now a liberal P.M.
The non-citizens of the United States have no rights, and therefore, no recourse to any legal remedy.
Any case of "border rejection" can theoretically be referred to an immigration judge, but people very seldom go through that process.
They prefer to come back.
Many professionals and academics avoid going to the United States because chances are they might be subjected to a lot of harassment by the border officials.
Very seldom, some officers are well-behaved, courteous and decent.
The immigration and customs officials can discover any flimsy or contrived reason to deny entry into the United States. If the Canadian citizens seeking entry into the USA look non-White, the officials ask the country of their birth. If they were born in certain Muslim majority (or, listed countries), they could be returned. The borders have been sealed and security tightened since 9/11. The officers were given wide discretionary authority by president Bush. His conservative cousin in Canada, the P.M. Steven Harper, didn't take up the Canadian cause ever. Not sure about Justin Trudeau, now a liberal P.M.
The non-citizens of the United States have no rights, and therefore, no recourse to any legal remedy.
Any case of "border rejection" can theoretically be referred to an immigration judge, but people very seldom go through that process.
They prefer to come back.
Many professionals and academics avoid going to the United States because chances are they might be subjected to a lot of harassment by the border officials.
Very seldom, some officers are well-behaved, courteous and decent.
10
Great News! The police that we pay can finally do the jobs we hired them to do. Please don't act like this is outrageous. We have laws and police to uphold the law.
11
Pete, be educated, President Obama deported more illegals than all previous administrations....and there are almost 1 million illegals immigrants who are in line to be deported from the previous administration's enforcement. Don't be taken in by Trump's chest beating on a policy that President Obama was enforcing without the Trump grandstanding!
3
Adrian, i a man educated. I gave an MBA from Huston college. President Trump needs us to treat him fair. 30 days in office, I think he is trying hard to protect our country and have our country be treated fairly in trade agreements.
It may be time to revive the UNDERGROUND RAILROAD.
6
I dont think so
8
Regarding his oath to uphold the law, President Obama was at best a seditious fool, at worst treasonous. Thank god we now have a president who respects the constitution and has taken the politically correct handcuffs off our ICE agents. Thank you for your service!
11
OMG, treason? What about contact with the Russiand by Trump's minions? Also, I guarantee you, Mr. Obama likely did not employ undocumented workers in his vast (nonexistent) hotel, resort etc. holdings.
Then again, Mr. Trump was born in NYC of IMIGRANT parents, his dad changed his German name to Trump because a German-sounding name caused much difficulty during WWI--I.e. He was abused because of his immigrant status. He started making his fortune building homes for GIs with government-backed and provided mortgages--I.e. on the back of the Feds. And he violated anti-housing-discrimination laws in his NYC holdings.
The irony and despicability...Trump has accused the Hawaii-born Obama of being born in Kenya. He has filed for bankruptcy at least twice. He has ruined small and bigger businesses alike, he selectively banned Muslims--not one from countries with which he does business. He likely has employed undocynented workers. And his senior counselor Jared Kushner has apartment holdings in many US cities in apartment complexes offering rentals to people with HUD housing vouchers (previously called Section 8). Another one making big bucks on the back of government. His daughter sources her line of clothes from Asia, largely China as does Trump with his ties, shirts, etc. Again the irony.
Looking for possible treason and certain brazen hypocrisy? Look no further than the current occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
Then again, Mr. Trump was born in NYC of IMIGRANT parents, his dad changed his German name to Trump because a German-sounding name caused much difficulty during WWI--I.e. He was abused because of his immigrant status. He started making his fortune building homes for GIs with government-backed and provided mortgages--I.e. on the back of the Feds. And he violated anti-housing-discrimination laws in his NYC holdings.
The irony and despicability...Trump has accused the Hawaii-born Obama of being born in Kenya. He has filed for bankruptcy at least twice. He has ruined small and bigger businesses alike, he selectively banned Muslims--not one from countries with which he does business. He likely has employed undocynented workers. And his senior counselor Jared Kushner has apartment holdings in many US cities in apartment complexes offering rentals to people with HUD housing vouchers (previously called Section 8). Another one making big bucks on the back of government. His daughter sources her line of clothes from Asia, largely China as does Trump with his ties, shirts, etc. Again the irony.
Looking for possible treason and certain brazen hypocrisy? Look no further than the current occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
8
So easy to disregard the "facts", Trump's grandstanding has really sucked you in. FACT: President Obama has deported more illegals than all other previous administrations COMBINED, and when he left office ,there were/are almost 1 million illegals waiting to be deported, having exhausted all their appeal avenues. How does that stand up to your statement "now have a president who respects the constitution".? Trump will NOT respect the constitution ,he will stomp on it!
4
“Morale amongst our agents and officers has increased exponentially since the signing of the orders,” the unions representing ICE and Border Patrol agents."
Is it because they are finally able to do their jobs, and enforce the law? The article states that in California, officers detained 161 people with felony and misdemeanor charges. Only 10 had not criminal history other than being in the country illegally. They came here not because of fear for their lives, or prosecution at home---to make money. So they didn't wait 7 years, pledge allegiance to the US, and do it legally, and they are to be rewarded?
The 151 who were detained not only broke the law by coming here illegally, but they also committed a crime while they were here? And that's okay with you?
It makes a mockery of those who came into the country legally.
Is it because they are finally able to do their jobs, and enforce the law? The article states that in California, officers detained 161 people with felony and misdemeanor charges. Only 10 had not criminal history other than being in the country illegally. They came here not because of fear for their lives, or prosecution at home---to make money. So they didn't wait 7 years, pledge allegiance to the US, and do it legally, and they are to be rewarded?
The 151 who were detained not only broke the law by coming here illegally, but they also committed a crime while they were here? And that's okay with you?
It makes a mockery of those who came into the country legally.
12
Researchers at the Cato Institute estimated that a mass deportations policy would reduce economic growth by around $250 billion per year.
There are approximately 3.7 million unlawful immigrant households in the U.S. These households impose a net fiscal burden of around $54.5 billion per year.
What is your choice here?
I suggest that removing millions of illegals is a mistake. I also suggest that we change the laws to reduce payouts to illegals with American born children. I believe that this will help reduce extra expense of illegals without keeping the labor sans children for our businesses that need them.
There are approximately 3.7 million unlawful immigrant households in the U.S. These households impose a net fiscal burden of around $54.5 billion per year.
What is your choice here?
I suggest that removing millions of illegals is a mistake. I also suggest that we change the laws to reduce payouts to illegals with American born children. I believe that this will help reduce extra expense of illegals without keeping the labor sans children for our businesses that need them.
5
Most Americans value their citizenship more than the cost of an economic downturn.
1
Let's say Trump rounds up all the illegals working in California's fields, farms and factories. Do we really think Americans will be wanting those low paying back breaking jobs? Is he prepared to shut down the agricultural industry in that state? How will that affect the prices we pay in the grocery stores?
9
The price of goods and services should never be justification for hiring illegals even if you must pay a little more.
8
For most of my 63 years, I traveled all over Califonia by car and saw miles and miles of low to the ground vegetables and strawberries as well as fruit, olive and nut trees. Rarely, if ever did I see anyone but dark skinned men, women, and children working these thousands and thousands of acres of hot, dusty, or extremely cold lands. Often, there was no shade, or sheltee from the elements. Now I live in TX, and years round the vegetables, fruits, nuts, avacados that I see in all the grocery stores are coming up from Mexico. So, I woder if all those in the U.S.A. who cannot find work are going to apply and go to work for the agricultral conglomerates, ranches, chicken farms, wineries, etc? Are they going to perform these physically intensive jobs for absolute minimum wage and with no health benefits? Also, I am just a bit curious who Mister Trump and his family will employ at the "Winter White House" this summer since all his "illegal alien" summer employees should be kicked out of the U.S.A. by this summer.
3
This entire situation is a mess, and can be laid at the doorstep of politicians in both of the two major parties, as well as a good portion of the press who has sought to normalize illegal immigration to the United States - insisting on using language like "undocumented".
This is not just about farm work and cheap produce. Entire segments of the workforce have been turned on their heads. In fields such as construction (particularly residential house building), meatpacking, restaurant and hospitality, to name just some of them. These used to be decent, solid, working class and middle class jobs for millions of American citizens.
Meanwhile, the displaced citizens find diminished wages and job opportunities, coupled with rising property taxes and overcrowded school districts and community hospital emergency rooms - while their new neighbors are advantaged by receiving social services for their children (if born here), and don't have most of these tax burdens if they're paid in cash.
The ones who are not paid in cash have false S.S. numbers - which brings up other questions of course, such as where those numbers came from. Were they just pulled from thin air? Or were they "borrowed" from an already existing number (AKA identity theft)?
Something has to give, what we're witnessing is a breaking point. The only real surprise is that it took as long as it did. Be thankful the changes are coming as the result of the ballot box.
This is not just about farm work and cheap produce. Entire segments of the workforce have been turned on their heads. In fields such as construction (particularly residential house building), meatpacking, restaurant and hospitality, to name just some of them. These used to be decent, solid, working class and middle class jobs for millions of American citizens.
Meanwhile, the displaced citizens find diminished wages and job opportunities, coupled with rising property taxes and overcrowded school districts and community hospital emergency rooms - while their new neighbors are advantaged by receiving social services for their children (if born here), and don't have most of these tax burdens if they're paid in cash.
The ones who are not paid in cash have false S.S. numbers - which brings up other questions of course, such as where those numbers came from. Were they just pulled from thin air? Or were they "borrowed" from an already existing number (AKA identity theft)?
Something has to give, what we're witnessing is a breaking point. The only real surprise is that it took as long as it did. Be thankful the changes are coming as the result of the ballot box.
11
Don Jenkins, I am going to hazard a guess that you have never worked in a feed lot or slaughterhouse, or as a 'housekeeper' or low level restaurant worker, or as a 'domestic,' or an agricultural laborer, or as a non-union construction worker - or you could never, in a million years, assert that once upon a time these were good paying jobs that would support a Leave It To Beaver middle class lifestyle.
No, hombre, they never have been good paying jobs; they always have paid low wages, with minimal benefits or job security, usually requiring work under dangerous conditions that no self respecting 'middle class white American' ever would deign to do.
But if, as the Trumpistas now demand, all of the folks who are invisibly and thanklessly picking the fruit, swabbing the toilets, washing the dishes and wading in hog's blood are swept out of the country, a lot of mean-spirited white folks may just get their wish. After Steven Bannon and Paul Ryan have slashed the safety net to shreds, these sanctimonious 'patriotic Americans' may well find themselves without social security, medicare, food stamps, disability payments, and the other subsidies many of them rely on (check out red states like Tennessee, Kentucky, Alabama, Louisiana and see what I mean). And after the Bannonites have 'deconstructed' unions, labor laws, job safety regs and other 'impediments to economic growth,' a permanent underclass of poor white Americans will have little choice but to do their own dirty work.
No, hombre, they never have been good paying jobs; they always have paid low wages, with minimal benefits or job security, usually requiring work under dangerous conditions that no self respecting 'middle class white American' ever would deign to do.
But if, as the Trumpistas now demand, all of the folks who are invisibly and thanklessly picking the fruit, swabbing the toilets, washing the dishes and wading in hog's blood are swept out of the country, a lot of mean-spirited white folks may just get their wish. After Steven Bannon and Paul Ryan have slashed the safety net to shreds, these sanctimonious 'patriotic Americans' may well find themselves without social security, medicare, food stamps, disability payments, and the other subsidies many of them rely on (check out red states like Tennessee, Kentucky, Alabama, Louisiana and see what I mean). And after the Bannonites have 'deconstructed' unions, labor laws, job safety regs and other 'impediments to economic growth,' a permanent underclass of poor white Americans will have little choice but to do their own dirty work.
9
Let me ask, how many WHITE people work off the books? I am talking about home contractors who may ask for checks to be made out to them personally; babysitters; "companions and home care workers; in-home teachers and tutors (in suburban NY the going rate for some tutors is $50 an HOUR); musicians, artists, photographers; upscale waitstaff and others who under-report tips...
What of the employers who employ non-union construction workers, lawn care workers, roofers et. al? Have you or a neighbor or friend ever used any such services? Do you pay tips in cash? Pay a contractor off-the-books?
Come on...there is a lot of duplicity and hypocrisy here...
What of the employers who employ non-union construction workers, lawn care workers, roofers et. al? Have you or a neighbor or friend ever used any such services? Do you pay tips in cash? Pay a contractor off-the-books?
Come on...there is a lot of duplicity and hypocrisy here...
2
Slaughterhouses used to be pretty good union wage jobs in middle America, and they did support families and communities. The illegal workforce put an end to that.
4
Good!! Finally illegals are no longer given a free pass.
17
Bottom line, illegal immigrants have a 10th grade education on average," In the modern American economy people with that level of education tend to make modest wages and as result pay relatively little in taxes, at the same time they tend to use a lot in public services, regardless of legal status. In the case of illegals, they often receive benefits on behalf of their U.S.-born children. If you had to put it in a bumper sticker it would be: 'there is a high cost to cheap labor.'
13
Where do get your information. My observation over the last 40 years that they open restaurants, beauty saions , build furniture, become nurses and health workers , chefs , and own their homes and send their kids to community colleges and universities . Oh yes , some fight in our wars . I am sure I missed more and my observations are just my husbands family I have known, who came from mexico some legal and some illegal .
5
This Trump administration's "taking the shackles off" appears to be a theme. Included in the unshackling along with the DOJ are EPA, Education, Labor, Health and Human Services, State, Energy, Treasury, OMB, and trying to for Interior, Ethics, and Intelligence.
4
Yes, Congress has been avoiding the immigration issue for a long time. Trump, however, is a sick man with a twisted sense of reality. He wants to see humans suffer just because they want to make a better life for themselves.
8
It's about time we start cleaning house.
9
Indeed. We should be showing the Wall Street gang the door. Instead they own the White House!
10
Everyone making a comment on this article needs to see "A Day Without A Mexican." It's going to interesting to see how many, and who will be crying then. And where are all those Americans ready to work in slaughterhouses, lettuce fields, and on roof tear off crews?
5
Higher salaries and more robots. Problem solved.,
7
Higher salaries for more robots? Brave New World indeed.
1
Why is the liberals' defense of illegal immigrants limited to the self-serving concern of more expensive produce, lawn care and home improvement? Liberals claim that Trump's policy is inhumane but their personal wallet based view is neither compassionate nor humane .
4
If we wanted to get rid of illegal immigrants, we could do it overnight by criminalizing their employment. We don't do that. Therefore, we don't want to get rid of illegal immigrants. This whole sorry situation is a cynical display, a cardboard front for creeping authoritarianism. And all these ICE agents who think they have suddenly been empowered to "do their job"--so incredibly naive, so effortlessly exploited.
94
There are fines that can be levied on employers. It might be possible to claw back fines from the prior years they have employed illegals.
I hope to see a better world with no borders some day!
3
People who argue that they have to go because they are "illegal" have to explain why they are allowing any of them to stay.
Until Congress passes a bill with some form of amnesty, the administration is doing a terrible job keeping their promise to get them all out.
Until Congress passes a bill with some form of amnesty, the administration is doing a terrible job keeping their promise to get them all out.
1
I am uncompromising on illegal immigration. It says what it is! America has a means for any HONORABLE person to come here! Yes, it may not happen as fast as you wish...as with MOST countries, but if you wish to live here in peace, then you have to come in on our terms!
Just because we have and you need, doesn't mean we have to give! We can't save the whole world. Silently standing by are all of the rich middle eastern countries who are just watching as we take in their brethren! Something's wrong with this pic!
Just because we have and you need, doesn't mean we have to give! We can't save the whole world. Silently standing by are all of the rich middle eastern countries who are just watching as we take in their brethren! Something's wrong with this pic!
8
The thing I have the hardest thing doing is finding good data on the subject of immigration in the media.
(1) We need some sort of census of how many legal, illegal immigrants there are. Otherwise we have no objective idea of what the size of the issue is.
(2) We need an accounting of the per capita costs (infrastructure like water, sewage, schools, housing and services like police, fire, healthcare) that is needed to support a growing population. No matter how someone gets here, they would need these things and these things cost money.
(3) Some idea what % of the immigration population has a criminal record. I have not seen one statistic on this. A breakdown based upon serious vs misdemeanors would be useful. It would at least get us passed this hearsay.
(4) The total budget over time of the cost of running ICE and DHS compared to the total federal budget and compare to other law enforcement.
(5) An objective analysis of how ICE functions. What rules of engagement there is. What oversight there is. Does it have an appeal process? All this article did was rile everyone but I did not see a clean analysis of the whole system and how it is doing and how it works. People are making political decisions based on perception only.
(1) We need some sort of census of how many legal, illegal immigrants there are. Otherwise we have no objective idea of what the size of the issue is.
(2) We need an accounting of the per capita costs (infrastructure like water, sewage, schools, housing and services like police, fire, healthcare) that is needed to support a growing population. No matter how someone gets here, they would need these things and these things cost money.
(3) Some idea what % of the immigration population has a criminal record. I have not seen one statistic on this. A breakdown based upon serious vs misdemeanors would be useful. It would at least get us passed this hearsay.
(4) The total budget over time of the cost of running ICE and DHS compared to the total federal budget and compare to other law enforcement.
(5) An objective analysis of how ICE functions. What rules of engagement there is. What oversight there is. Does it have an appeal process? All this article did was rile everyone but I did not see a clean analysis of the whole system and how it is doing and how it works. People are making political decisions based on perception only.
6
You know what glaring information you didn't think to ask? The amount these illegal immigrants contribute to our GDP. It astounds me that so few people understand how much they add to our economy by being willing to work at the very low wages they work for. So, yes, we pay for infrastructure for these folks but they more than make up for it by what they contribute to our national wealth. And if you'd like a good read on what happens when they're chased away, read this Bloomberg article:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-11-09/why-americans-wont-do...
I've seen the number of illegal immigrants in the U. S. estimated at 11 million people. What difference does the number of legal immigrants make? Once you're here, you're here.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-11-09/why-americans-wont-do...
I've seen the number of illegal immigrants in the U. S. estimated at 11 million people. What difference does the number of legal immigrants make? Once you're here, you're here.
3
At one point, Jeh Johnson, Obama's head of Homeland Security, admitted under questioning that he didn't have comparable deportation figures to Bush's. He couldn't say whether he was actually deporting more than Bush did.
My sense listening to him was that the Obama Administration had its narratives about immigration and didn't care too much for actual statistics, especially those that didn't support its narratives. Just look how it fudged the Obamacare data to fit its narratives that it was successful; meanwhile, it's imploding before our eyes.
My sense listening to him was that the Obama Administration had its narratives about immigration and didn't care too much for actual statistics, especially those that didn't support its narratives. Just look how it fudged the Obamacare data to fit its narratives that it was successful; meanwhile, it's imploding before our eyes.
2
The cost of illegal immigrants on communities, services, schools, etc... should also be taken into account.
1
Many comments posted here imply that under President Obama immigration laws were not enforced and few undocumented immigrants were deported. That is untrue.
As of 2015, more than 2.5 million undocumented people had been deported by immigration authorities since President Obama took office in 2009, a total which is indeed record-setting. During the two terms of his predecessor, President George W. Bush, just over 2 million people were deported. The statistics come from reports generated by the DHS. Ironically, President Trump referenced these facts during the Republican Presidential Debates.
As of 2015, more than 2.5 million undocumented people had been deported by immigration authorities since President Obama took office in 2009, a total which is indeed record-setting. During the two terms of his predecessor, President George W. Bush, just over 2 million people were deported. The statistics come from reports generated by the DHS. Ironically, President Trump referenced these facts during the Republican Presidential Debates.
5
Just wondering: Were those passengers deplaning in San Francisco legally required to show their ID to ICE agents? What would have happened to US citizens who refused? What if many or all were to refuse?
4
Try it and report back to us.
6
Why show ID again when we showed it upon checking in and going through TSA to board the plane. It smacks of lack of freedom and how sad more people did not object.
2
To answer Laura's question. If you refuse to identify yourself at an airport, then you will be detained until the "Homeland" cop figures out his/her next step. The cop is obligated to bring you before a federal magistrate if you are charged with an offense because you refuse to show ID.
I suspect that if enough passengers refuse to cooperate, and given that there are only so many Homeland cops to go around, then Homeland may amend its tune. The political fallout caused by resistance would be too great to ignore.
The ACLU has some good information on their website about this issue
I suspect that if enough passengers refuse to cooperate, and given that there are only so many Homeland cops to go around, then Homeland may amend its tune. The political fallout caused by resistance would be too great to ignore.
The ACLU has some good information on their website about this issue
2
""""they bristled at what they considered stereotypes of indiscriminate enforcers who want to sweep grandmothers off the street or separate families."""
They (ICE officers) were rejoicing earlier in the article at the prospect of doing exactly that! They said that they go to people's homes early in the morning to arrest them, "hoping" their children didn't see their parent in handcuffs.
Dude, you can't have it both ways. You're either separating families or you're not. You ARE separating families.
I'm glad they're so happy at having their gloves taken off. But I'll tell you what....the politicians are going to be very angry when there aren't enough people to mow their lawns at their summer homes in the Hamptons, or wait on them in restaurants. I'm not joking. The vast, vast majority of landscape workers here are undocumented, and landscaping is a huge business here in the Hamptons. Swimming pool maintenance, sprinkler system installation and maintenance, hedge trimming, spring and fall cleanup, gardening, picking up dozensof flowering plants for parties and galas.
I can't wait to see the politicians' faces when they're told they have to wait two to three weeks to get their lawns mowed and oh yeah, the price for that is now $800.
They (ICE officers) were rejoicing earlier in the article at the prospect of doing exactly that! They said that they go to people's homes early in the morning to arrest them, "hoping" their children didn't see their parent in handcuffs.
Dude, you can't have it both ways. You're either separating families or you're not. You ARE separating families.
I'm glad they're so happy at having their gloves taken off. But I'll tell you what....the politicians are going to be very angry when there aren't enough people to mow their lawns at their summer homes in the Hamptons, or wait on them in restaurants. I'm not joking. The vast, vast majority of landscape workers here are undocumented, and landscaping is a huge business here in the Hamptons. Swimming pool maintenance, sprinkler system installation and maintenance, hedge trimming, spring and fall cleanup, gardening, picking up dozensof flowering plants for parties and galas.
I can't wait to see the politicians' faces when they're told they have to wait two to three weeks to get their lawns mowed and oh yeah, the price for that is now $800.
3
From living in one of the most expensive neighborhoods in America, (Pacific Heights, San Francisci) to one of the poorest, (Lone Star, TX), I have observed numerous American citizens of many races and cultures pay cash under the table for all and more of the services you describe, provided to them by Hispanics who line up for work each morning... or get the work by word of mouth. I agree with so many who describe this entire issue as an American cutural, political, business, and personal issue... There is more than enough blame to go around. However, I also believe that since the politicians failed to pass apprpriate pathway to citizenship legislation, we now have the extreme actions of Trump and gang.
1
Give a man / a woman a Uniform and tell them they have power and discretion over others, sit back and watch. It's horrifying the transformation that happens to a good portion of folks.
5
The movie "The Experimenter" details the real life Milgram Experiment where normal people (in a testing environment) have control of a machine that elicits shocks to another person who performs tasks unsatisfactory.
With very few iterations the person in charge is willingly shocking the person performing the tasks at higher and higher levels. Even when they can hear the person (in another room) hear that person screaming for them to stop.
They do so because in this experiment there was a man in a white coat (authority figure) in charge and telling them to do it. And most of them followed orders.
With very few iterations the person in charge is willingly shocking the person performing the tasks at higher and higher levels. Even when they can hear the person (in another room) hear that person screaming for them to stop.
They do so because in this experiment there was a man in a white coat (authority figure) in charge and telling them to do it. And most of them followed orders.
4
OK - how about give them authority to shut down, send to jail and take the business licenses away from the companies and private citizens that hire illegals knowingly. Republicans never talk about enforcing those laws.
85
George - Because the large companies are smart enough to outsource the jobs that exploit illegal labor. Walmart, to name one, does not hire janitors, that maintenance work is outsourced, so Walmart is not exploiting illegal labor and therefore is not subject to a fine or penalty. If this small business working for Walmart is fined, or loses their license, then they will close the doors and open the same business exploiting illegal labor under a different name.
And so it goes....
And so it goes....
4
Yeah, no kidding. Unreal.
When Trump hires more agents, he can hire all the unemployed haters that voted for him.
3
The laws they are following were created by democrats and republicans that agreed to keep OUR citizens safe, not another countries. As a center left Republican, I applaud the efforts of ICE.
6
As with so many of Trump's actions and words, this move gives license to bullies and sadists.
8
For all the "let's enforce the laws for a change" types out there, consider this:
8 US Code 1324a makes it an offense to HIRE illegal aliens. It provides criminal and civil penalties, including fines and jail time. But that law is RARELY IF EVER used. Why is that? Aren't we supposed to enforce all the laws?
The law makes it an offense to hire illegal aliens under a contract (e.g., to contract for workers to be hired by someone else, knowing that the workers will be or are illegal aliens).
If we enforced this one against employers, there would be much less incentive for illegal aliens to come to our country looking for work.
Suppose we start with a fellow who now bunks at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington, DC of whom it is reported in the press that he has used illegal aliens an several of his construction projects. He uses the excuse, which is covered by the law as an offense, the he only contracted for workers. Jail time might be appropriate under the law for a "pattern of conduct" or repeated offenses. Sounds like the excuse that has been offered.
ICE, are you paying attention?
8 US Code 1324a makes it an offense to HIRE illegal aliens. It provides criminal and civil penalties, including fines and jail time. But that law is RARELY IF EVER used. Why is that? Aren't we supposed to enforce all the laws?
The law makes it an offense to hire illegal aliens under a contract (e.g., to contract for workers to be hired by someone else, knowing that the workers will be or are illegal aliens).
If we enforced this one against employers, there would be much less incentive for illegal aliens to come to our country looking for work.
Suppose we start with a fellow who now bunks at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington, DC of whom it is reported in the press that he has used illegal aliens an several of his construction projects. He uses the excuse, which is covered by the law as an offense, the he only contracted for workers. Jail time might be appropriate under the law for a "pattern of conduct" or repeated offenses. Sounds like the excuse that has been offered.
ICE, are you paying attention?
17
I would like to see mandatory prison sentences for owners or managers of businesses who hire illegal aliens!
This is all a cruel farce. There are over 11 million illegal immigrants. It's inconceivable that ICE could round up and deport more than a very few million.
Over and over people ask, like Tom Toth Langhorne:
"Why not require E-Verify use by all US employers with a mandatory jail term for any employer who employs and illegal.
https://www.uscis.gov/e-verify
Illegals will be unable to work and leave."
Indeed, why not? Because businesses (most headed by Republicans) want the illegals here. The Republicans are never going to get rid of anything like the majority of the illegals, they have brought and supported them here in the first place.
This is just about scaring the illegals and pacifying the base, and then it will go back to business as usual.
Over and over people ask, like Tom Toth Langhorne:
"Why not require E-Verify use by all US employers with a mandatory jail term for any employer who employs and illegal.
https://www.uscis.gov/e-verify
Illegals will be unable to work and leave."
Indeed, why not? Because businesses (most headed by Republicans) want the illegals here. The Republicans are never going to get rid of anything like the majority of the illegals, they have brought and supported them here in the first place.
This is just about scaring the illegals and pacifying the base, and then it will go back to business as usual.
11
It also gives the employers an easy way to avoid paying what ever the person has already earned. When I worked in construction, may contractors would truck in Mexican workers to dig the trenches for plumbing, sewer, gas, water lines. And to do drywall. When the job was close to completed, these same contractors would anonymously call immigration and turn in the workers. I've been on housing tracts under construction when the words "La Migra!" (immigration enforcers) have echoed throughout and all the Mexicans disappeared running, the job complete, but never paid for. Great for the contractors.
8
The US was built on low-waged and free labour (the latter as known as slavery). This addiction
or economic model - call it what you will - is what makes the American economy go round...especially in the South. And so employers of undocumented workers will never EVER be held to account / punished as severely as the "disposible" wage-slave.
or economic model - call it what you will - is what makes the American economy go round...especially in the South. And so employers of undocumented workers will never EVER be held to account / punished as severely as the "disposible" wage-slave.
5
Gestapo like tactics is what comes to mind when reading this article. Militarizing both the Police and ICE have considerable danger to us all. There is a shadow citizenry who when placed at risk in tearing their families apart will resist mainly because they have an American mindset. One becomes Americanized quickly and takes on the individualistic traits of our culture. It is sad to hear that veterans who fought in wars, who wore the uniform would be glad to send people back who fought hard to come here and have endured horrible hardships we may never know about. It has come to this. It is incredible to see ICE has become the very instrument WWII veterans fought against. There are criminals among the illegals just like there are criminals among our population. We need an immigration policy not the Gestapo knocking on doors. There is always a price to pay when the vulnerable are exploited and injured. We owe all those soldiers who have died defending our country a nation worthy of their sacrifice and this is not it.
9
Well said!
2
I grew up on one of the states bordering Mexico. These unhinged bleeding heart libs comparing the poor ICE agents to the Nazis and fascists are ridiculous. This is first and foremost an economic problem. Why are liberals defending open borders? Illegal immigration has huge social costs, drives down the cost of labor and takes away jobs from Americans & legal immigrants.
We have long-standing immigration laws in the U.S. Time to enforce them. Period. Send them home and let them re-apply through the normal channels in their home countries.
I guess I support residency and work permits for the 'dreamers' who were brought here as kids...but only if they have not broken the law otherwise and have no gang affiliations.
This 'Don't separate families' argument is more emotional pandering. Anyone notice that extended Hispanic families are usually large ones? One person comes or one kid is born here and often the entire extended clan (siblings, cousins, grandparents, etc) feels as if they have a 'right' to live and work here, too. They come here EXPECTING to later relocate their entire families here but they have no legal right to have that expectation. They took the risk of separating their families. That's on them, not the American people.
Immigration is fine as long as Mexicans and Central Americans do not cut in front of those applying to immigrate here legally. Enough with their sense of entitlement. What is wrong with following the rules?
We have long-standing immigration laws in the U.S. Time to enforce them. Period. Send them home and let them re-apply through the normal channels in their home countries.
I guess I support residency and work permits for the 'dreamers' who were brought here as kids...but only if they have not broken the law otherwise and have no gang affiliations.
This 'Don't separate families' argument is more emotional pandering. Anyone notice that extended Hispanic families are usually large ones? One person comes or one kid is born here and often the entire extended clan (siblings, cousins, grandparents, etc) feels as if they have a 'right' to live and work here, too. They come here EXPECTING to later relocate their entire families here but they have no legal right to have that expectation. They took the risk of separating their families. That's on them, not the American people.
Immigration is fine as long as Mexicans and Central Americans do not cut in front of those applying to immigrate here legally. Enough with their sense of entitlement. What is wrong with following the rules?
19
If they truly cared about their family members, they would move back to their country of origin with all of their members.
Maybe all the unemployed Trump voters can take over the vacancies in picking the crops, cleaning the motels and gardening, plus all the other jobs that Americans have always found beneath them to do.
When will the I'd checks start for all of us? Worked for the Gestapo in the 30s. Looks like it's pretty close to starting here.
When will the I'd checks start for all of us? Worked for the Gestapo in the 30s. Looks like it's pretty close to starting here.
5
Maybe the teachers will be able to teach with 50% fewer students in their classes, maybe it won't be a 6 hour wait in the ER, maybe traffic will be less on the road, less graffiti and fewer gang members. God bless President Trump.
5
Illegal immigrants who work without authorization in the United States are felons, 18 USC Sec. 1015 states “Whoever knowingly makes any false statement or claim that he is, or at any time has been, a citizen or national of the United States, with the intent to obtain on behalf of himself, or any other person, any Federal or State benefit or service, or to engage unlawfully in employment in the United States” shall or imprisoned not more than five years.” Congress made posing as a U.S. citizen a felony because it undermines the nation’s ability to provide jobs its citizens, educate its youth, control its borders and regulate immigration.
11
If employers hire illegals, then they are complicit as well. If a few of these employers do jail time, I believe the immigration problem would be solved. Accountability, in this instance is one-sided, biased towards the immigrants and not the ones who are the enablers.
13
One important point missing here is the lack of legitimacy of Trump and his government. Trump and many of his cohort may be guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors for colluding with the Russians. For these corrupt, dishonest, and likely criminal thugs to get on their high horse about "illegals" is despicable. And those Trump apologists who dismiss Trump's likely treasonous actions are delusional and the worst kind of hypocrites.
14
I guess what bothers me in the final analysis is that some people are getting off on this. Rather than acknowledging the pain of others (no matter which side you take on this issue) or regarding repatriation as a 'necessary evil,' there are those who sound in their commentary absolutely gleeful and ecstatic. That's what makes people like me think of jackboots.
There are U.S. citizens who have committed horrendous crimes (such as first degree murder) and deserve the severest of punishments. However, even then, I don't think it's an occasion to throw a dance party. One should consider the gravity of the situation and behave accordingly.
There are U.S. citizens who have committed horrendous crimes (such as first degree murder) and deserve the severest of punishments. However, even then, I don't think it's an occasion to throw a dance party. One should consider the gravity of the situation and behave accordingly.
8
But it's ok for liberals to smash windows, set cars ablaze, push a department head down a flight of stairs, and bully corporations for the "crime" of selling Ivanka's clothing? Practice what you preach.
5
Lynne,
All the demonstrations I've attended have been peaceful. Many marchers were women of a certain age, college students and families with young children. I agree that peaceful resistance is paramount. Like you, I've read about purported anarchists causing mayhem. We share some of the same concerns, however I would advise troublemakers they are not helpful to the cause. It's important that those opposing Mr. Trump's policies are consistently nonviolent, but ongoing and consistent nonetheless. In my opinion, there is no way to normalize Mr. Trump's administration's behavior and I could never imagine becoming acculturated to it.
All the demonstrations I've attended have been peaceful. Many marchers were women of a certain age, college students and families with young children. I agree that peaceful resistance is paramount. Like you, I've read about purported anarchists causing mayhem. We share some of the same concerns, however I would advise troublemakers they are not helpful to the cause. It's important that those opposing Mr. Trump's policies are consistently nonviolent, but ongoing and consistent nonetheless. In my opinion, there is no way to normalize Mr. Trump's administration's behavior and I could never imagine becoming acculturated to it.
2
Sorry, I missed the Ivanka 'bullying' thing. There are companies with which I simply choose not to do business. As a matter of fact, I still don't buy Nestle products because of the breastfeeding/formula issue years ago. They're fine (I guess); they don't need me.
I would say boycotts are a nonviolent form of political speech. (Remember the table grapes boycott?)
I wasn't buying Ivanka Trump stuff anyway. Not my style. But, arguably, she put herself in this position. Had she not become a member of her father's administration - or divested herself of her business interests, since she did - she wouldn't be in this position.
Personally, if I was dying of thirst in the desert, I wouldn't buy a glass of Donald Trump spring water. But that's just me.
I would say boycotts are a nonviolent form of political speech. (Remember the table grapes boycott?)
I wasn't buying Ivanka Trump stuff anyway. Not my style. But, arguably, she put herself in this position. Had she not become a member of her father's administration - or divested herself of her business interests, since she did - she wouldn't be in this position.
Personally, if I was dying of thirst in the desert, I wouldn't buy a glass of Donald Trump spring water. But that's just me.
AFTER KATRINA I was on the Gulf Coast hanging drywall charging $20 a board, $30 taped and floated. Mexican's were charging $5 and $10. After they were done you look down the wall and it was bowed, gaped and looked like it was hung by children. Our's looked perfect and professional. Me and a couple guys could hand 20-30 boards a day; they would have half a dozen and hang 50 a day!!
10
Odd that these same governors support the Barry policy of forfeiting personal property BEFORE being found guilty of a crime. I guess as long as they make money, the constitution doesn't really matter. Unless there are cameras there to showboat
How is this news? Of course if we are going to enforce immigration laws those tasked with doing the enforcing will by necessity have more freedom to do their jobs.
11
I'm so happy for all the Germans who didn't give a flying Trump whether it was "illegal" to forge papers for Jewish fellow citizens.
All this mindless worship of legalism... And to think it comes from a group of Americans who like to see this as a Christian nation. Because mindless obedience to bad laws and worse authorities is what the Jesus movement was all about, right?
Are there any Christians left in America? I mean, probably, but their last names probably ends in -ez, so they're not welcome here.
All this mindless worship of legalism... And to think it comes from a group of Americans who like to see this as a Christian nation. Because mindless obedience to bad laws and worse authorities is what the Jesus movement was all about, right?
Are there any Christians left in America? I mean, probably, but their last names probably ends in -ez, so they're not welcome here.
12
Last I heard, the USA was deporting illegal immigrants back to their country of origin, not enslaving and murdering them. Comparisons to the holocaust are beyond facile.
7
And when the last trembling undocumented immigrant is rounded up and gleefully tossed over the Great Wall of Trump, who will this frothing herd of irrational fear and hate scapegoat next?
It could be YOU...
It could be YOU...
14
Many posters have commented that ICE tactics are racist because most of those caught up in sweeps are Hispanic, but according to the Pew Research Center, “about three-quarters (76%) of the nation’s unauthorized immigrant population are Hispanics.” This is why most deportees seem to be Hispanics. According to Pew, “the majority of undocumented immigrants (59%) are from Mexico, numbering 7 million. Significant regional sources of unauthorized immigrants include Asia (11%), Central America (11%), South America (7%), the Caribbean (4%) and the Middle East (less than 2%).”
10
Stop calling them undocumented immigrants. They are ILLEGAL ALIENS, which makes them criminals.
There are seven reasons why all illegal aliens must be deported and our borders sealed to keep them from coming back.
1. By coming here, they have proven that they have no respect for the law.
2. Most of them can’t find jobs and turn to crime. The most dangerous gangs in the country are comprised of Latinos.
3. Those who do find jobs are taking them from legal unemployed citizens who want and need the jobs. Employers hire them because they will work for less, and they pay them under the table, which means that no taxes are paid.
4. Having them here costs the U.S. taxpayer about 60 billion a year, which we can’t afford.
5. The country is already overcrowded and some resources, like clean water and the production of electricity are problematic.
6. They find ways to vote illegally.
7. Since they have no respect for the law, when they don’t get their way, they riot, destroy property, and cause harm to others.
Truthfully, this country is terribly overcrowded and we can’t keep cutting down the forests to make room for more people. The borders need to be closed permanently to all new immigration to help ensure the longevity of our country.
There are seven reasons why all illegal aliens must be deported and our borders sealed to keep them from coming back.
1. By coming here, they have proven that they have no respect for the law.
2. Most of them can’t find jobs and turn to crime. The most dangerous gangs in the country are comprised of Latinos.
3. Those who do find jobs are taking them from legal unemployed citizens who want and need the jobs. Employers hire them because they will work for less, and they pay them under the table, which means that no taxes are paid.
4. Having them here costs the U.S. taxpayer about 60 billion a year, which we can’t afford.
5. The country is already overcrowded and some resources, like clean water and the production of electricity are problematic.
6. They find ways to vote illegally.
7. Since they have no respect for the law, when they don’t get their way, they riot, destroy property, and cause harm to others.
Truthfully, this country is terribly overcrowded and we can’t keep cutting down the forests to make room for more people. The borders need to be closed permanently to all new immigration to help ensure the longevity of our country.
It is unlawful to knowingly hire an illegal alien 8 U.S. Code § 1324a -
It is also illegal to transport or assist an illegal alien to enter the USA. 8 U.S. Code § 1324 - In addition, it is also unlawful to provide support or assistance to a person known to be here illegally.
The simple solution is this: We need Congress to pass a national law which requires ALL people to be cleared through the existing E-Verify system for ANY job and for ANY benefit provided by ANY local, state or federal agency. Any employer who knowingly hires (or anyone who provides benefits to) an Illegal Alien must be prosecuted with a Federal Felony and lose their business license. With no income and no ‘freebies’, the vast majority of Illegal Aliens will simply pack up and self-deport. Those few remaining can more easily be identified and deported.
Illegal aliens commit 3–4 times as many crimes as US Citizens. However - LEGAL immigrants commit crimes about 1/2 the rate or US Citizens. Which would YOU rather have living among us?
From the L.A. Times - several years ago:
40% of all workers in L.A. County are working for cash and not paying taxes.
2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.
3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.
2. Less than 2% of illegal aliens are picking our crops, but 29% are on welfare.
10. 29% of inmates in federal prisons are illegal aliens.
It is also illegal to transport or assist an illegal alien to enter the USA. 8 U.S. Code § 1324 - In addition, it is also unlawful to provide support or assistance to a person known to be here illegally.
The simple solution is this: We need Congress to pass a national law which requires ALL people to be cleared through the existing E-Verify system for ANY job and for ANY benefit provided by ANY local, state or federal agency. Any employer who knowingly hires (or anyone who provides benefits to) an Illegal Alien must be prosecuted with a Federal Felony and lose their business license. With no income and no ‘freebies’, the vast majority of Illegal Aliens will simply pack up and self-deport. Those few remaining can more easily be identified and deported.
Illegal aliens commit 3–4 times as many crimes as US Citizens. However - LEGAL immigrants commit crimes about 1/2 the rate or US Citizens. Which would YOU rather have living among us?
From the L.A. Times - several years ago:
40% of all workers in L.A. County are working for cash and not paying taxes.
2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.
3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.
2. Less than 2% of illegal aliens are picking our crops, but 29% are on welfare.
10. 29% of inmates in federal prisons are illegal aliens.
13
Thank you, thank you, thank you for this.
I keep repeating these things, but the media keeps trying to paint a picture of these adorable, hardworking illegals with cute kids who NEVER commit crimes and are saintly, and so superior to "evil stupid lazy white people".
Just the last fact -- they are over 25% of criminals in federal prisons (mostly on drug and gang charges) is proof they are a lot of "bad hombres"....
I keep repeating these things, but the media keeps trying to paint a picture of these adorable, hardworking illegals with cute kids who NEVER commit crimes and are saintly, and so superior to "evil stupid lazy white people".
Just the last fact -- they are over 25% of criminals in federal prisons (mostly on drug and gang charges) is proof they are a lot of "bad hombres"....
6
And so our journey on the road to authoritarianism begins.
8
my first thought was Stanford Prison Test...still is.
3
How is enforcing current law a bad thing? The prison experiment showed that people who know nothing about a prison system could find themselves caught up in what they believe was true for prisoners and guards. None had ever actually been either. It was nothing but young adults acting out stereotypical behavior.
2
What's the oversight mechanism? Where is the appeal system? Are we going to have another closed loop process like we had under Bush with the FISC?
5
I am reminded here of Zimbardo's prison simulation experiment (1971... google it). In that study, 'pretend' prison guards (normal/average people) became authoritarian and brutal in short order... taking the control embedded in their role way beyond acceptable limits.
We've not learned from this, and the implication for the behavior of thousands of deputized enforcers with carte blanche is terrifying. Lord Acton said it: "Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely".
We've not learned from this, and the implication for the behavior of thousands of deputized enforcers with carte blanche is terrifying. Lord Acton said it: "Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely".
7
When you figure the pending SCOTUS case of the US boarder patrol shooting an unarmed Mexican kid he was chasing through the fence when the kid was on the Mexican side and killing him, it's not like there's really much of an already formed mind-set to change here by these new policies.
2
More discretion for the folks on the front lines? That is a recipe for disaster.
First, fear. Next, police state. I think Trump promised Law and Order. We're getting there. Remember how he ranted about NYC police used to use profiling to stop people? I can see that as a near term goal.
We should be doing better things with our federal resources.
First, fear. Next, police state. I think Trump promised Law and Order. We're getting there. Remember how he ranted about NYC police used to use profiling to stop people? I can see that as a near term goal.
We should be doing better things with our federal resources.
8
After the Oroville Dam evacuation order was lifted in Northern California earlier this month, it was reported among predominantly Hispanic communities that law enforcement and INS were positioned on some of the main roads back to Oroville from the smaller communities, and stopping people attempting to return to their homes in the evacuated area. After the stress of such a hasty evacuation (a one-hour-notice was given) it's alarming to imagine people would be subject to something so brazenly inhumane. I have yet to hear an official verification of this rumor, only hearing stories third-hand. Does anyone know of this kind of thing happening before? If this is true, it will keep people from evacuating in the future, or seeking help at emergency shelters. People's lives will be at risk, including the lives of those charged with getting people out of threatened areas.
Tricking people so they can be roused from their homes, laying in wait at churches and community events and even possibly scavenging disaster response sites, will not make my neighborhood safer; it will just make the (mostly) decent people who live here more poor, more cautious, less healthy and more afraid.
Tricking people so they can be roused from their homes, laying in wait at churches and community events and even possibly scavenging disaster response sites, will not make my neighborhood safer; it will just make the (mostly) decent people who live here more poor, more cautious, less healthy and more afraid.
8
Whenever I think about immigration -- illegal or legal -- I try to put myself in the shoes of the immigrant. If I lived in poverty, facing violence on a daily basis, without much hope for a better future for myself or my family, would I risk coming to the US even though I would be braking the law? My bet is that many American citizens would answer that question YES. If that is the case, perhaps we should respond accordingly and treat immigrants with the same respect and compassion that we would hope to receive if we were in their situation.
8
No, most of us would not act illegally to get jobs especially when in a foreign country. The real question is why people who want to work in the US do not apply for work visas. The answer is because it takes time, people can be turned down, and, until now, not doing so was hardly an issue. That said, i fail to see why anyone should be above the law.
1
There are 5 BILLION very poor people in the world, Machka.
By your logic, they all want to come to the US (or Canada or Europe).
We cannot possibly take them all in.
Why are MEXICANS a priority over, say, the 2 billion in Africa? just because Mexico is close by?
Trust me, those 2 billion poor Africans are far, far poorer than any Mexican peasant. They are therefore "more deserving". Mexico is actually relatively prosperous by world standards -- the minimum wage there is 2-3 times what it is in China.
By your logic, they all want to come to the US (or Canada or Europe).
We cannot possibly take them all in.
Why are MEXICANS a priority over, say, the 2 billion in Africa? just because Mexico is close by?
Trust me, those 2 billion poor Africans are far, far poorer than any Mexican peasant. They are therefore "more deserving". Mexico is actually relatively prosperous by world standards -- the minimum wage there is 2-3 times what it is in China.
4
Organize to make your country of origin a better place.
1
there is a fine balance to be struck when empowering law enforcement personnel, given that the job probably self selects those seeking power.Conversely, working in agriculture or in kitchens self selects those with a real hunger and work ethic.So who willl be blamed when harvests go awry, food service deteriorates and prices go up because of a lack of willing or productive Gringoes?Better identify them now.
6
"Must the citizen ever for a moment, or in the least degree, resign his conscience to the legislator? Why has every man a conscience, then?" begins Thoreau is his essay, "Resistance to Civil Government." In his passage, Thoreau bitingly critiques the "mass of men [who] serve the state," calling them machines, stones, straw, and a lump of dirt. In Martin Luther King, Jr.'s passage, Letter from Birmingham Jail, he argues that unjust laws do not follow the universal moral code. These agents are mindlessly following orders, and disregarding crucial moral codes. They need to learn that all people are human. There is no moral in intimidating and arresting people without knowing their true background.
6
This article quotes an agent stating that he'd have been disciplined for arresting outside Obama's priorities. This quote should have been fact-checked. Employees of ICE and CBP do not get disciplined for major violations of constitutional rights, much less arresting outside of the guidelines.
3
“The discretion has come back to us; it’s up to us to make decisions in the field,” a 15-year veteran in California said. “We’re trusted again.” Actually, no. You're no longer trusted by the people you serve - no matter their status.
Fo r,anu jobs, an arrest record is enough to disqualify and applicant, even if charges are later found to be baseless or dismissed, the arrest record remains. A lot of jobs in law enforcement, the courts and the prison system, along with jobs requiring handling of sensitive information, have this restriction. Rounding up people who aren't in fact illegally in the US, described as "collateral arrests", will put many people in this situation and unfairly affect their opportunities in the labor market.
Those picked up as "collateral arrest" are also more likely to be people of color, as we don't see many photos of illegal immigrants from Ireland for example being rounded up in raids at dawn.
Pretty m,uch the arrests are based on profiling. It would be very interesting to know the process for clearing one's record and receiving restitution for legal expenses and lost wages for a legal resident or US citizen after being picked up as a collateral arrest. Which part of "unconstitutional" don't you understand ?
Those picked up as "collateral arrest" are also more likely to be people of color, as we don't see many photos of illegal immigrants from Ireland for example being rounded up in raids at dawn.
Pretty m,uch the arrests are based on profiling. It would be very interesting to know the process for clearing one's record and receiving restitution for legal expenses and lost wages for a legal resident or US citizen after being picked up as a collateral arrest. Which part of "unconstitutional" don't you understand ?
5
In 1954, President Eisenhower launched a roundup that removed about 1.5 unauthorized immigrants in just several months. The operation involved only 750 immigration and border patrol officers, a fraction of the force ICE and the Border Patrol could marshal today. In addition to those deported, hundreds of thousands illegal immigrants voluntarily left the country because they feared arrests. However, most Americans wouldn’t insist on the removal of all unauthorized immigrates or even most illegal immigrants. They want to stop future illegal immigration, which is something that the federal government has proven it can’t do alone. We should pass congressional legislation that empowers states, cities and counties to arrest migrants for unlawfully residing in their jurisdictions. We should change policy to automatically deny asylum to all asylum seekers who enter the country illegally. We should amend the citizenship clause to grant birthright citizenship only to children born to U.S. parents. Once these measures are in effect, we should offer citizenship to Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals enrollees and permanent legal resident status to other unauthorized immigrants who have established families in America.
4
This is a pretty fair article.
The law is the law.
The law is the law.
5
"intrusion on your Liberty"? Logic = Law enforcement officers simply assume criminals will put up their hands. Of course their will be times when citizens will have to be subject to identity checks as they are now when subject to police road blocks or pulled over for whatever reason.
Last I checked Mr. Trump has passed no new laws nor made any regulations. He is just asking border agents to enforce existing laws passed by our congress. Exactly what is wrong with that? President Obama had 2 years without any opposition to change immigration law. He chose to change it by fiat not law. Well, Mr. Trump is just following the law...
12
Uncommon common sense.
4
I'm sure that all will agree that the primary cause of illegal immigration from our neighbors to the south is a result of disparity of income, scarcity of jobs and violence within their borders. And, it is a fact that 200 yrs of our foreign policy in support of that disparity in income has led us to where we are now.
The burden always falls on the common man, regardless of his citizenship, and the thieves who perpetrate the problem are always in high offices, never in the streets.
The burden always falls on the common man, regardless of his citizenship, and the thieves who perpetrate the problem are always in high offices, never in the streets.
4
This may give Illegals thinking of entering the U.S. a second thought, is it worth it????
In addition, enforcing the Law on the Books is a good thing, if it isn't then the people can repeal the Law.
In addition, enforcing the Law on the Books is a good thing, if it isn't then the people can repeal the Law.
9
It seems bizarre that Americans tolerate such intrusion on their liberty. if the crazy bigots who applauded Trump at CPAC think what is happening in America under Trump is the way of the future America is doomed economically, politically, morally. Trump and his followers are plainly unhinged. Maybe the rich are right in buying unused military silos.
8
America loves mr. Trump. And 85% of Americans stand with him and his immigration policies. Illegal means illegal. Detain and deport.
9
David,
"It seems bizarre that Americans tolerate such intrusion on their liberty"
Just to be clear, this is not happening to American citizens but to illegal immigrants coming into my country, and yours, who have broken multiple laws. How could you possibly have an issue with that?
"It seems bizarre that Americans tolerate such intrusion on their liberty"
Just to be clear, this is not happening to American citizens but to illegal immigrants coming into my country, and yours, who have broken multiple laws. How could you possibly have an issue with that?
7
If your comment is accurate 85% of Americans do not understand the consequences of deporting 11 million people who keep prices low by doing work that would not get done otherwise. We are not talking about criminals who were deported under previous administrations. Workers in food harvesting and processing, construction, tourist industry, and countless other areas of the economy have been coming from South of the Boarder and businesses including the Trump organization have been too happy to have them here.
1
This is a very complicated problem. Since I live in California, I see the problem from both sides. I have, unfortunately, worked for companies that thought nothing of hiring illegals to keep the cost of payroll and goods down. I have also known people who were willing to hire illegals for gardening, maids, nannies, plumbers, construction workers and housekeepers. If we round up all illegals, or force them to go to Canada, as they apparently are doing now en masse, who will perform these jobs? Today, teenagers laugh at jobs these illegals have been doing for decades. They would rather start a company or work in the tech world. So, again, I ask, who will fill these jobs? I foresee a cascading economic problem. When there are no illegals to fill much needed jobs, or the cost of hiring someone legal is too expensive, there will be many angry people and an economic void that will ripple through our society. Why not offer non-criminal illegals a realistic path to citizenship and welcome them to our country?
81
Actually, it is not that complicated. We need to enforce the immigration laws already on the books. No need for comprehensive immigration reform, conveniently known as amnesty.
6
Teens laugh at jobs? Change that.
Who will fill those jobs? Americans
It's not that complicated.
Who will fill those jobs? Americans
It's not that complicated.
1
It's not an immigrant problem, it's a teenager problem. God help us if we're forced to have to find a teenager these days to cut the grass. Do any even know what a lawnmower looks like anymore?
That's it! iMower! Then they'll pay you to play with it!
That's it! iMower! Then they'll pay you to play with it!
1
Excellent. Let them do their jobs. That is what they get paid the big bucks for. Presumably they are professionals and will act accordingly.
15
The failure to obey laws, and the failure to enforce them is a sure fire route to the demise of the Western way of life. ICE and the Trump administration are doing no more than enforcing compliance with the law.
All this talk of Nazi tactics is fear mongering by those who do not believe in democratic ideals and compliance with the law. Perhaps their fear of removing illegal aliens comes from their fear of losing their illegal drug supply.
All this talk of Nazi tactics is fear mongering by those who do not believe in democratic ideals and compliance with the law. Perhaps their fear of removing illegal aliens comes from their fear of losing their illegal drug supply.
19
Justice is supposed to be blind in this country. Laws should not be enforced based on politics as was done by the Obama administration. Or because one group of law breakers has a sob story. Crossing the border illegally is a federal crime with real world consequences for law abiding citizens and legal immigrants. Those consequences come in the former of higher taxes and lower wages for the law abiding who end up subsidizing illegal aliens. Along with an atmosphere of lawlessness where an entire class of people feel free to defy any laws they don't agree with. People became fed up with the lawlessness and dishonesty of the Obama years. Where NO concern was shown for law abiding citizens and legal immigrants who follow the law.Only the concerns of law breaking illegal aliens seemed to matter. That is a big part of why Trump was elected.He actually appeared with people of all races who had lost family to illegal alien criminals. Rather then ignoring the pain of these Americans. He was also the only candidate promising to enforce the country's immigration laws.
16
It seems to me, a non-lawyer, that this crackdown may fall under the "Cruel and Unusual " punishment clause. It is definitely "unusual" on the face of it. We have chosen not to enforce our immigration laws for decades. therefore we have allowed to build up in this country an inventory of violators which by many counts is in the range of 10-15 million people.
They came to this country in violation of our laws but they were allowed to stay because we-the United States Government- chose not to enforce the laws. At what point does arresting someone under an unenforced law become "unusual" and therefore "cruel"? It seems to me to be the same valid argument used by Anti-Capital Punishment advocates.
The solution is to revert to finding and deporting only the most violent and security threatening offenders and leaving the rest alone. Simultaneously we should pursue comprehensive immigration reform which should include a rigorous pathway to citizenship for our current inventory of law-abiding, non-threatening immigrants. This comprehensive plan should include the means of controlling future immigration so that we don't repeat this mistaken policy which allowed the tragic buildup of a human inventory. The interests of no-one were served by that policy.
They came to this country in violation of our laws but they were allowed to stay because we-the United States Government- chose not to enforce the laws. At what point does arresting someone under an unenforced law become "unusual" and therefore "cruel"? It seems to me to be the same valid argument used by Anti-Capital Punishment advocates.
The solution is to revert to finding and deporting only the most violent and security threatening offenders and leaving the rest alone. Simultaneously we should pursue comprehensive immigration reform which should include a rigorous pathway to citizenship for our current inventory of law-abiding, non-threatening immigrants. This comprehensive plan should include the means of controlling future immigration so that we don't repeat this mistaken policy which allowed the tragic buildup of a human inventory. The interests of no-one were served by that policy.
34
They're not Americans, they have no constitutional rights in this country.
7
Deportation is not punishment under federal law. That is why most illegals, if taken into custody by ICE, do not have a right to a publicly-funded lawyer.
2
It is not "Cruel and Unusual " to enforce the law.
It's "Cruel and Unusual " to have to deal with coyotes to do so
It's "Cruel and Unusual " to brings drugs into the country
It's "Cruel and Unusual "to take jobs from already economic depressed blacks
"Cruel and Unusual " for anyones' life to be taken by thse illegals
It's "Cruel and Unusual " to have to deal with coyotes to do so
It's "Cruel and Unusual " to brings drugs into the country
It's "Cruel and Unusual "to take jobs from already economic depressed blacks
"Cruel and Unusual " for anyones' life to be taken by thse illegals
2
I wonder if ICE agents are being deployed in neighborhoods that are enclaves of white, European immigrants, many of whom have expired visas and paperwork that isn't in order. I'm pretty sure that I can answer my own question though.
37
Exactly -- there are estimated to be about 100,000 illegal Irish immigrants in the greater Boston area ... I'd be surprised if one of them gets deported under Trump.
18
That would mean a crackdown in Menlo Park and Cupertino and Mountain View for Big Tech, dependent on H1B visa holders.
6
Mikey, my husband said the very same thing. He is from Central Europe and apparently there are 1000s of undocumented people from that region in NYC alone.
4
Change the "dark bulletproof vests" with "leather coats" and you have the history repeated.
18
Finally we are enforcing our immigration laws. Congrats to our ICE agents. PC politics won't interfere with you doing the job of enforcing our laws! If you're here illegally, turn yourself in and get it over with before we send the ICE teams to round you up!
And to the legal immigrants of America welcome and thank you for following our laws!!!
And to the legal immigrants of America welcome and thank you for following our laws!!!
18
Rounding up undocumented aliens is not going to solve the problem of crime and unemployment. In the majority of arrests, the person detained for deportation provides the food and shelter for his or her family. Subtracting this undocumented alien from the equation has the obvious result of increasing the probability of a life of crime for the children. This should not surprise anyone, as our prison demographics demonstrate. And, apart from the immorality of breaking up families, this form of deportation is exponentially expensive on a society because it includes the victims of crime. Of course, the solution to that might be a call for more federal police action (e.g. SS, storm troopers, etc.) and less freedom for law abiding tax-paying citizens. Remember your history studies and don't be so foolish as to think it's not already happening here.
3
Since ICE officers are "newly emboldened, newly empowered and already getting to work", I have a recommendation for how they can use their resources to show corporate America that the President takes this issue seriously.
As their first priority, ICE should do a sweep of all Donald Trump's hotels, golf courses and other branded properties. This would demonstrate that 'The Donald" is truly interested in eliminating assorted "bad hombres" & illegal immigrants. If any are found to be employed at his properties, the maximum fine available under the law should be levied against Trump's organization. I'm sure he would gladly pay the penalties to show what a good citizen he is in spite of the fact that he doesn't pay any income tax.
As their first priority, ICE should do a sweep of all Donald Trump's hotels, golf courses and other branded properties. This would demonstrate that 'The Donald" is truly interested in eliminating assorted "bad hombres" & illegal immigrants. If any are found to be employed at his properties, the maximum fine available under the law should be levied against Trump's organization. I'm sure he would gladly pay the penalties to show what a good citizen he is in spite of the fact that he doesn't pay any income tax.
37
We can only hope it would lead to his impeachment!
1
A good deal of opposition research was done on President Trump during the campaign. If even one illegal was employed on his properties, it would have been most embarrassing. My surmise is that the Trump Organization spent as much effort ensuring that they had no illegals on the payroll as the media did trying to find such an illegal.
3
The hard policies take time and thought - giving free rein to law enforcement types who have been itching to "do their job" looks good for the cameras and the delusion of doing something for America. This is what happens when Congress is useless and compromised - yes I mean the GOP. To be fair, Congress and past presidents have not really resolved the immigration issue through far reaching necessary policies. Now it is easy for a guy who thinks hard ball is a policy to enforce it.
3
Will the ICE agents go after the "Bad Dudes" who may be armed and dangrous or
a peaceful non-threatening illegal.
Take a wild guess!
a peaceful non-threatening illegal.
Take a wild guess!
6
ICE is NOT the gestapo. What hyperbole!!! It is a loathsome quandary requiring strong and forceful action. This isn't about removing legal residents and it's not even just about removing crooks. I think it's horribly painful that people who have come here ILLEGALLY (no doubt out of desperation) are, however you want to spin it, impertinently manipulating the decency and humanity of many in our nation by seeding the all too susceptible hearts of my fellow Americans with sympathies which do not have a moral ground to stand. These people, for all the courage and strength, having made the trip in whatever capacity they made it are still here illegally.
The argument that the economy will materially deteriorate forEVER if we ship these poor buggers out is a false equivalence of the lowest and most degraded kind and can be tossed aside; the unavoidable fact guiding this painful yet necessary policy is that it is painful yet necessary. This was the risk taken by these people when they made their gambit.
ICE wouldn't have such a task if these individuals were not functioning here contrary to what the law requires to become legally resident and would come forward. Being an ICE officer is not for the faint of heart; there is a detestable and painful job to be done--it is asked ask they perform it with honor and humanity, as it is no less a patriotic act than serving our country abroad or on the thin blue line.
The argument that the economy will materially deteriorate forEVER if we ship these poor buggers out is a false equivalence of the lowest and most degraded kind and can be tossed aside; the unavoidable fact guiding this painful yet necessary policy is that it is painful yet necessary. This was the risk taken by these people when they made their gambit.
ICE wouldn't have such a task if these individuals were not functioning here contrary to what the law requires to become legally resident and would come forward. Being an ICE officer is not for the faint of heart; there is a detestable and painful job to be done--it is asked ask they perform it with honor and humanity, as it is no less a patriotic act than serving our country abroad or on the thin blue line.
51
The very moment one of those people breaks the law by becoming violent, burglarizing or stealing, I am all with you. Hit them with the full fist of the law. Permanently.
I am talking about those people who are peaceful and who contribute productively to our economy and to our society.
They have shown that they are true Americans.
Better Americans than Trump and his Cabinet will ever be.
They must be protected.
I mean, come on, Trump cannot even show us his tax returns! What does that reveal, except an admission that he has stolen from all of us, and the most from the people who have voted for him.
And this is the leader you are looking up to?
Pathetic!
I am talking about those people who are peaceful and who contribute productively to our economy and to our society.
They have shown that they are true Americans.
Better Americans than Trump and his Cabinet will ever be.
They must be protected.
I mean, come on, Trump cannot even show us his tax returns! What does that reveal, except an admission that he has stolen from all of us, and the most from the people who have voted for him.
And this is the leader you are looking up to?
Pathetic!
6
Try to remember this: you are talking about real people here, people just like you. Rounding them up like cattle and shipping them out, or to your words, "ship the poor buggers out" is atrocious.
2
Excellent post, best I've read thus far.
1
Now, if Mexico would do same on its southern borders with illegals coming up from the south, we might see even more progress.
At last, Trump is reversing the Obama "change" to immigration laws now being enforced. A very good thing. Let's "hope" it continues with even greater pace.
At last, Trump is reversing the Obama "change" to immigration laws now being enforced. A very good thing. Let's "hope" it continues with even greater pace.
18
Mexico does and has been doing exactly that. Google it
1
Often I hear comments that the illegal immigrants take the jobs that nobody wants. That is so totally flawed. They take the jobs that nobody wants at the wage offered. The wage will go up until the position is filled or the job will be mechanized. Paying cheap labor to pick lettuce is just delaying the eventual robot picking the lettuce.
15
"Paying cheap labor to pick lettuce is just delaying the eventual robot picking the lettuce."
In the meantime, giving us vitamin and iron deficiency...
I know, unintended consequences. So, who are you going to blame for those?
The immigrants, Congress, Trump.... or yourself, who has no qualms going to the supermarket and buying exactly that what you detest here!
In the meantime, giving us vitamin and iron deficiency...
I know, unintended consequences. So, who are you going to blame for those?
The immigrants, Congress, Trump.... or yourself, who has no qualms going to the supermarket and buying exactly that what you detest here!
2
And are you willing to pay more at Walmart to pay for that robot?
Thing is, Americans would rather work at McDonald's than work in the fields. It's just too backbreaking. Read for yourself what happened when Alabama and Georgia cracked down on their illegal immigrants:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-11-09/why-americans-wont-do...
It's a good read, and you will learn something.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-11-09/why-americans-wont-do...
It's a good read, and you will learn something.
1
Yet again . . .
These are not "undocumented immigrants." The term "immigrant" is defined in federal law. An undocumented immigrant who left his green card at home. I carried mine with me, always.
They are "illegal aliens." Every one of them has committed at least one federal offense: Breaking into the US, illegally.
These are not "undocumented immigrants." The term "immigrant" is defined in federal law. An undocumented immigrant who left his green card at home. I carried mine with me, always.
They are "illegal aliens." Every one of them has committed at least one federal offense: Breaking into the US, illegally.
35
This is excellent news for the American worker. Do we want a living wage? Well, then, why wouldn't we be happy to see those who work here illegally and drive wages down deported? Deportation alone is great, but too many are still getting in. Once the wall is built, wages should rise naturally (without a need for legislation) to $15 an hour or more, as they have in other countries which actually defend their borders and enforce their immigration laws.
27
Why not require E-Verify use by all US employers with a mandatory jail term for any employer who employs and illegal.
https://www.uscis.gov/e-verify
Illegals will be unable to work and leave.
https://www.uscis.gov/e-verify
Illegals will be unable to work and leave.
14
I see it like Tom Toth does. Mandatory e-Verify, not just once but every couple of years everyone has to submit citizenship documents. And with a designated officer swearing that his company has met the law, and if they don't he goes to jail. Be a well-paid position.
I would presume the agents had the description of the person they were looking for. This would preclude checking the ID of everyone on the entire plane. The checking therefore was a tactic to induce fear and complicit participation from those checked each of whom had the right to ask why they were being checked and the right to refuse. Once we all get in the habit of accepting this kind of police action then it becomes easier to expand police powers and throw due process out of the window. The government can then scoop up any person or group. Illegal aliens are only the canary in the coal mine
25
If this were 1941, the headline would be "Many Obstacles Are Seen to U.S., Canada and Australia, Taking in Large Number of Jewish Refugees". We should all be ashamed - this country is special and should exercise more compassion. Our leaders have destabilized the Middle East (due to incompetence, not bad intentions) but now this is all Europe's problem?
We are all immigrants or descendants of immigrants. .
We are all immigrants or descendants of immigrants. .
12
The anxiety is palpable here in Los Angeles. In my son's middle school, kids are stressed out. I can't believe this is happening.
12
Whatever was Obama thinking stopping the enforcement of immigration laws? It was never a realistic measure, always temporary at best. Just another example of his short-sightedness for political gain. Such a weak president.
12
Obama did not stop the enforcement of immigration laws. He, if fact, deported a record number (a rate higher than his predecessors) of undocumented immigrants. This is the kind of misinformation that gave us the 'gift' of 45.
1
Obama deported more people than any other president.
1
Reading Miranda Rights is frustrating to police officers. Throwing away improperly obtained evidence is frustrating to DAs. Finding qualified, impartial jurors is frustrating to the courts. Due process is frustrating. By design. If ICE is frustrated, it means the legal system is challenging.
Fascism is a system in which all legal challenges have been swept away.
Reading that ICE agents feel disencumbered is disheartening.
Fascism is a system in which all legal challenges have been swept away.
Reading that ICE agents feel disencumbered is disheartening.
25
Agents should be free to hold illegally present foreign nationals accountable to the law. Why should it be otherwise?
24
"But arrests can appear dramatic, as agents arrive in large numbers, armed with semiautomatic handguns and wearing dark bulletproof vests with ICE in bright white letters on them." Maybe the should show up in pairs, carrying flintlock pistols, wearing toe shoes and tutus?
14
“There are 10 seats on the bus, they go to the first 10 you grab,” Mr. Sandweg said. “It diminishes the chances that it’s a violent offender.”
Maybe they need more buses.
Maybe they need more buses.
11
Surprised that people will enthusiastically engage in cruel behavior when they are given a little power and the license to abuse their fellow human beings? Zimbardo's Stanford Prison Experiment (http://www.prisonexp.org/) told us all we need to know about this human propensity.
And who has given the ICE license to be cruel? I think I saw these fearless leaders raising their fists at CPAC just now before their adoring followers.
And who has given the ICE license to be cruel? I think I saw these fearless leaders raising their fists at CPAC just now before their adoring followers.
11
When ICE goes into a hospital where a young undocumented woman is awaiting brain surgery, hand cuffs her and adds leg restraints and bodily carries her out of the hospital to deport her, I wonder what has happened to our country. We are in a mess with trump as president. This is inhumane, cruel and makes the US look like a banana republic. Yes, we now have a leader who is stealing from all of us with his excess travel and protection of his family on business trips etc. Time to kick him out.
25
I have attempted to alert ICE in the past to the notorious practices of companies favoring illegal hires to people like me working out of a labor pool . They are pretty much useless. Of course, this is a top-down directive. They only follow directions of current political enforcement policies. There are too many political
appointees given by presidents and governors entering office . Ronald Reagan was among the worst . When reporting illegals becomes a laborious task filled with letter writing or driving in person to meet someone face to face, you know the system is rigged.
appointees given by presidents and governors entering office . Ronald Reagan was among the worst . When reporting illegals becomes a laborious task filled with letter writing or driving in person to meet someone face to face, you know the system is rigged.
3
Yay! More freedom for the (not quite) police! Just what America needs! Appoint each cop as a judge at the same time he gets his badge. It'll save oodles of money that is wasted supporting that old-fashioned court system. "Checks and balances"? A check is for spending money and balance is for tight-rope walkers.
5
when is it good for a police force to feel "empowered and emboldened"?
10
Those applauding these actions might begin to reconsider when crops start rotting in the fields and the price of fresh produce goes through the roof. If they can't empathise with the pain of immigrants, perhaps their own financial pain will bring them to their senses.
8
H2A temporary agricultural visas are the remedy to the harvesting dilemma, not unfettered illegal immigration. There is no part of America encouraging illegal immigration that isn't deeply immoral for all parties. Creating a serf class while incentivizing people to undertake a dangerous journey using the assistance of illegal cartels cannot be defended.
15
Let's suppose this new approach of Trump will cost, for example, $1B per year for the foreseeable future. And for the moment, let's ignore the question of whether that money would be better spent on something completely different (education, healthcare...).
Is the building of walls and the hiring of 10,000 law enforcers the best way to go? It sounds a bit like a make work scheme for construction companies and mercenaries. What if a bit of REAL, high pressure diplomacy, coupled with $1B in carefully controlled and applied aid, could be directed towards Mexico and the countries to its south, so that people had less reason to come at all, and those that tried found bigger hurdles on the way?
Just thinking out loud. Trump's approach just seems too pat. It plays to the crowd and lines the pockets of his friends.
For the record I DO believe something major needs to be done. Having millions living in an illegal status is not good for anyone.
Is the building of walls and the hiring of 10,000 law enforcers the best way to go? It sounds a bit like a make work scheme for construction companies and mercenaries. What if a bit of REAL, high pressure diplomacy, coupled with $1B in carefully controlled and applied aid, could be directed towards Mexico and the countries to its south, so that people had less reason to come at all, and those that tried found bigger hurdles on the way?
Just thinking out loud. Trump's approach just seems too pat. It plays to the crowd and lines the pockets of his friends.
For the record I DO believe something major needs to be done. Having millions living in an illegal status is not good for anyone.
2
"Elections have consequences". What a sad country we've become. Enough.
3
The US has been a "sad" country for quite awhile, long before the most recent election! It would be even "sadder" if Clinton had been elected...
3
What kind of people are this ICE agents? They enjoy? They feel fulfilled? All this reminds me too much of GESTAPO. Even the ordinary citizen is being harassed in his own country!
The idea that any low-level law enforcement officer ought to have unfettered discretion is absurd. Unfettered discretion is well above an ICE officer's pay grade. These federal cowboys don't belong in a free society. If their morale suffered for not getting to do what they want, to whomever they want, whenever they want, on whatever pretext, then they are in the wrong job. There are plenty of good reasons people in positions of authority are not blindly trusted.
Trump is a nightmare. He's the wicked witch of the west sending out winged monkeys in black ICE jackets. None of this will end well for the United States.
Trump is a nightmare. He's the wicked witch of the west sending out winged monkeys in black ICE jackets. None of this will end well for the United States.
Stupid does what Stupid orders and Stupid thinks !!! I hope someone sues the NYC ICE officers that detained the passengers on that flight. I suppose that was a sigle random event not charastic of activities over all the flights from SanFran, like you 17 interviews are not very representative of the ICE bureau in NYC.
4
JOC: Law enforcement are entitled to ask for your ID if you are in an area where you are required to carry ID, which an airplane is.
1
America is becoming a bit too much like a military gang for my liking. Officers are less "officers" and more "soldiers" due to our puzzling worship of military authority here. This power-hungry nonsense, especially with the more "alpha" among men, really needs to stop being glorified.
18
"armed with semiautomatic handguns"
This is why every gun owner in the country hates the idea of liberals creating firearms laws.
This is why every gun owner in the country hates the idea of liberals creating firearms laws.
8
If you should find yourself confronted by ICE or any other law enforcement, I strongly discourage you from waving your firearm about, regardless of the injustice of the situation. It is highly unlikely to make the situation any better.
9
1. I'm so liberal I believe in Reparations and am a Sanders-supporting/donating Democratic Socialist.
2. I'm not sure what your post has to do with my comment.
The point of my comment is that every single handgun ever made since 1873, when the Colt Peacemaker was launched, is semi-auto. Literally every single post-flintlock handgun is semi-auto, with the exception of some target handguns (very rare and never used outside of target competitions) and integrally suppressed, subsonic MI6/CIA/KGB assassination handguns whose cartridges do not have enough powder to create enough recoil to cycle the weapon, because (generally) less powder = quieter. These assassination handguns are nearly silent and must be cycled by hand.
When did I say I would "wave [my] firearm about"? I don't even own any firearms currently! Just an ex-Army guy here who hates seeing articles that are probably going to be used as propaganda by the NRA.
Either way, have a good day, and I do mean that.
2. I'm not sure what your post has to do with my comment.
The point of my comment is that every single handgun ever made since 1873, when the Colt Peacemaker was launched, is semi-auto. Literally every single post-flintlock handgun is semi-auto, with the exception of some target handguns (very rare and never used outside of target competitions) and integrally suppressed, subsonic MI6/CIA/KGB assassination handguns whose cartridges do not have enough powder to create enough recoil to cycle the weapon, because (generally) less powder = quieter. These assassination handguns are nearly silent and must be cycled by hand.
When did I say I would "wave [my] firearm about"? I don't even own any firearms currently! Just an ex-Army guy here who hates seeing articles that are probably going to be used as propaganda by the NRA.
Either way, have a good day, and I do mean that.
I do not dispute that most of those here illegally are not hard working fellow humans looking for a better life. Does that mean we should just do away with our immigration laws?
When I listen to Canadian officials talk about immigration into their country, it is predicated on what value you bring to their nation. If you have a skill they need and cannot be filled by a Canadian citizen you are in. If you do not, then you will not gain entry.
We need the same system here. We also need to be clear that if you come here illegally you will be sent home.
When I listen to Canadian officials talk about immigration into their country, it is predicated on what value you bring to their nation. If you have a skill they need and cannot be filled by a Canadian citizen you are in. If you do not, then you will not gain entry.
We need the same system here. We also need to be clear that if you come here illegally you will be sent home.
22
The Canadians have also forcefully rejected the notion that having a family member in Canada entitles her / his outside the country adult relatives to preferential immigration status in the name of "re uniting" families.
Instead the adult relative seeking admission to Canada must also separately and independently demonstrate their value to Canada's economy.
Thats a whole lot better policy than the US policy.
Instead the adult relative seeking admission to Canada must also separately and independently demonstrate their value to Canada's economy.
Thats a whole lot better policy than the US policy.
6
Agreed. The cost to the US of the family reunification, with many getting medical and other benefits without ever having paid into the system, is almost incalculable.
1
Either we have a legal system or we don't. If we don't, we do not have a sovereign country. Sadly, the Trump administration has inherited a country that has been allowed to deteriorate beyond recognition. The country is in shambles, chaos, a step from lawless anarchy. Radical change is desperately needed. is lost. Either law is restored or America is lost. Yes, it's that serious..
24
I agree with your first 2 sentences and strongly disagree with the rest of what you wrote. We've not living in paradise, but we live in an amazing place. I recently completed 4 years working in Saudi Arabia and traveled in several nearby countries. Let me assure you, things could be much worse and still be nowhere near "lawless anarchy".
2
And when American agriculture and the construction trades collapse for a lack of workers, I'm sure you'll be at the head of the line to pick lettuce.
4
I wish the wealthy would respect the rule of law. Oh, wait, they are making the laws.
3
Illegal immigration is not the same as decisions about whether to issue a moving citation or a warning ticket. If officers, chartered to protect the integrity of our borders, arrest a person in our country illegally, the supervisory management system takes over and decides what to do, not individual the officers. That management system will rule. If it incentivizes numbers of illegals arrested via performance evaluations and metrics, the officers will probably grab the low hanging fruit. If the incentives focus on clearer immediate threats to society, managers will emphasize those cases. Sometimes an "innocent illegal" will get caught up in those cases. It's not unusual for minor offenders to get caught up in operations targeting bigger threats. Bad luck happens to everyone.
3
The problem is that TRump has incentivized the DHS, ICE and individual agents to not distinguish between the truly dangerous and "low hanging fruit." The individual agents are now more laws unto themselves, rather than being followers of more detailed guidance. So, you are going to get craziness and suffering and injustice. The woman in the hospital with the brain tumor, the mother who was trying to work to support her family and had been in a program in which she was actually reporting in with ICE, students brought here illegally as little kids, are not the same as gang members, drug dealers and violent criminals. What is going on now is the "stop and frisk" of immigration. And who is going to get screened in? Anyone whose looks fit the profile.
Sure, you will get some really violent criminals by en massesse screening, but you may lose them too. People will not report crimes, not aid the cops.
There is a lot that can be done to strengthen our immigration system, starting with entrance AND exit immigration. Without exit immigration, we have no idea how many and who overstays on visas. Trump should devote resources to an enhanced electronic system to do this. If people expect exit immigration and tracking if they overstay, then they may not overstay--prevention and if they do, we know who they are. Guess what? This will likely pick up those who do not fit the stereotyped profile of the illegal immigrant: try white Europeans, for one.
Sure, you will get some really violent criminals by en massesse screening, but you may lose them too. People will not report crimes, not aid the cops.
There is a lot that can be done to strengthen our immigration system, starting with entrance AND exit immigration. Without exit immigration, we have no idea how many and who overstays on visas. Trump should devote resources to an enhanced electronic system to do this. If people expect exit immigration and tracking if they overstay, then they may not overstay--prevention and if they do, we know who they are. Guess what? This will likely pick up those who do not fit the stereotyped profile of the illegal immigrant: try white Europeans, for one.
4
These people are being seen by the world as 'brown-shirts' who are wreaking sorrow on defenseless people. All the people coming under attack are of Mexican descent and it isn't even a veiled threat against this group of people. The drug cartels, violent gang members and other "bad hombres" aren't in the data-base of ICE. The people in the data-base are people who are registered, working, and paying taxes. The 'brown shirts' have their home addresses precisely because they are not "bad hombre." but easy to prey on people trying to get by in the world. Once again the concept of we are kicking out the gangs and drugs cartel is a lie. Those "bad hombres" aren't going to be sitting ducks.
14
I favored the Obama era policy on this, but the comparisons being made to Nazi Germany and the SS are false and misguided. ICE is in fact enforcing the law, and when you enter the country illegally you face the possibility of deportation.
If you want someone to direct your ire towards, pick Congress. If people here illegally were offered a path toward legal status then ICE cannot deport them. At the same time, we should be looking at ways to improve our legal immigration system, which also requires involvement from Congress.
So, to quote Obama: "Don't boo, vote."
If you want someone to direct your ire towards, pick Congress. If people here illegally were offered a path toward legal status then ICE cannot deport them. At the same time, we should be looking at ways to improve our legal immigration system, which also requires involvement from Congress.
So, to quote Obama: "Don't boo, vote."
12
Some immigrants are bad dudes. So are some ICE agents.
12
Realit check this long over due other countrys you be put in jail never seen agun. Hit road jack if you dont want to be citzen an be part of freedom dont let door hit ya get out.
6
i would maybe see a reason for armwringing if the illegal immigrants were rounded up to work on US infrastructure projects or the wall itself,
but
- just being deported to where you belong seems pretty humane to me
but
- just being deported to where you belong seems pretty humane to me
9
It seems humane to wait for people outside their homes, early in the morning, and arrest them on their way to work? To leave their children in the house with no idea where Mommy or Daddy went? These people are no danger to our society. They contribute to it. The drug dealers and "bad hombres" are in hiding. They are not leaving home early in the morning to go to work.
10
Everyone of the commenters here who refer to the Nazis in the same breath as ICE agents and their new mandate to enforce Federal law need to book a trip to Dachau and educate themselves...
There's a big difference I assure you!
There's a big difference I assure you!
15
Ugly comment, and there have been a number of Holocaust survivors or their children who have pointed out similarities with Trump in the past.
Suppression of the media, militarizing law enforcement, singling out groups for persecution such as Muslims and Latinos, bias in favor of whites (particularly men), including tens of thousands of children in this mass deportation, people in hospitals and church shelters, and all kinds of people who in no way can be regarded as "bad hombres" but are peaceful individuals, is an atrocity.
Educate yourself. Do not be so condescending. The final solution didn't happen overnight but there were steps leading up to it. Among those steps were all the collaborators and those who refused to see what was in front of them.
First they came for the Socialists...
Suppression of the media, militarizing law enforcement, singling out groups for persecution such as Muslims and Latinos, bias in favor of whites (particularly men), including tens of thousands of children in this mass deportation, people in hospitals and church shelters, and all kinds of people who in no way can be regarded as "bad hombres" but are peaceful individuals, is an atrocity.
Educate yourself. Do not be so condescending. The final solution didn't happen overnight but there were steps leading up to it. Among those steps were all the collaborators and those who refused to see what was in front of them.
First they came for the Socialists...
11
Sorry, but ICE is the Gestapo in its infant stages.
2
Richard, then what does that make all of us who they work for and whose taxes pay their salaries? The accusations can't be leveled strictly at them.
For everyone deported- New ones [even the same ones] will now return legally with proper identification and e-verification. Now we can finally track these people and monitor true employment statistics, population concentrations, amount of social services allocated. Businesses who hire illegal immigrants will no longer be able to pay "off-book" and immigrant workers can start filing state and federal tax returns. We can tax them on the money they send back to their home countries - currently Mexico brings in $53 billion dollars annually [no wonder their government doesn't want them back]. Unless every illegal immigrant is going to step forward and register- It's going to take mass deportation in order to correct the broken system we have and I'm all for it. The free ride is over and it's time to start collecting toll.
6
You have some good points, however you failed to mention that taxes (state, federal, social security) ARE being withheld for many working illegals - who cannot file a return. Seems to be a profitable savings account for the US government; maybe the withheld taxes are being used as a "slush" fund to help keep the social security system solvent for a few more years? Follow the money...
2
That isn't so. Many claim multiple deductions, and get back what they paid through the Earned Income Credit, which they get as a refund.
2
The US Social Security Administration surely must know when fake SSNs or SSNs of deceased people are being used. It seems like that's the logical place to go for determining who is illegal and who isn't. Employers should be required to check the SSNs of job applicants before hire. If they hire someone who isn't using a legitimate SSN heavy sanctions could be applied to them that would quickly discourage them from continuing that practice. In the interest of being humane, current employees with non-legitimate SSNs could be given a free pass. The changes would only apply to new employees. I expect this policy will shut down illegal immigrants arriving in this country fairly quickly.
12
"e Verify" is a voluntary system for employers to check on the legal status of potential employees. I believe it is based on the SSN database. During the campaign Trump talked about making it mandatory and I expect he will probably take action on that soon.
As far as giving a "free pass" to people currently here, do you recall the Reagan Amnesty? I believe it was 1986, Reagan gave a blanket amnesty to all illegal aliens in the country, several million at the time.
Nonetheless, we're back in the same situation again. So I have my doubts about the blanket amnesty approach. I think there may be narrow classes of people who might warrant an amnesty however. We need an approach that acknowledges the complexity of different people's situations.
As far as giving a "free pass" to people currently here, do you recall the Reagan Amnesty? I believe it was 1986, Reagan gave a blanket amnesty to all illegal aliens in the country, several million at the time.
Nonetheless, we're back in the same situation again. So I have my doubts about the blanket amnesty approach. I think there may be narrow classes of people who might warrant an amnesty however. We need an approach that acknowledges the complexity of different people's situations.
6
We're in the same situation again because the Congress didn't make E-Verify mandatory. Making it mandatory for employers will effect change.
2
When I look at the comments I see a schism between "2 sides", those who oppose Trump and seem to want millions of people living under an illegal status to remain that way, and those who support Trump and want them all thrown out right away, no questions asked.
What I don't see is an acknowledgement on the part of Trump-opposers that having this "illegal" class of workers puts those workers themselves in vulnerable positions. They have no legal rights. Their presence may be preventing the strengthening of labor rights and unionization because employers have access to their cheap labor. In short, opposers don't acknowledge the harm that the "illegals" are suffering or the harm their presence may be doing to the strength of labor.
Trump-supporters don't acknowledge the complexity of the situation or try to craft a solution that reflects the difference between a gangbanger and a someone who came here as a child, is now married, with children, hasn't broken any laws and works for a living.
I'd love to see more comments searching for a discussion between the 2 sides, a search for common ground, and perhaps eventually even a solution that reflects a compromise we can all get behind.
Democracy doesn't need to be about 2 sides yelling at each other. It can also be about a variety of view points coming together into an agreement.
Shall we try it?
What I don't see is an acknowledgement on the part of Trump-opposers that having this "illegal" class of workers puts those workers themselves in vulnerable positions. They have no legal rights. Their presence may be preventing the strengthening of labor rights and unionization because employers have access to their cheap labor. In short, opposers don't acknowledge the harm that the "illegals" are suffering or the harm their presence may be doing to the strength of labor.
Trump-supporters don't acknowledge the complexity of the situation or try to craft a solution that reflects the difference between a gangbanger and a someone who came here as a child, is now married, with children, hasn't broken any laws and works for a living.
I'd love to see more comments searching for a discussion between the 2 sides, a search for common ground, and perhaps eventually even a solution that reflects a compromise we can all get behind.
Democracy doesn't need to be about 2 sides yelling at each other. It can also be about a variety of view points coming together into an agreement.
Shall we try it?
Those who support any action that rids us of illegals argue that they are here against the law and have no rights. But that doesn't answer the question. Illegals weren't admitted because of laws restricting immigration. Under those laws, 1.3 million Mexicans are currently waiting for visas. No country comes close to Mexico in the size of its waiting list, and experts estimate that it will take 20 years to clear the list.
During the late 19th century, at the height of white immigration to the US, there were no quotas. Virtually anyone who wanted to come was admitted. Today, the rate of immigration to the US is 40th in the world. The rate of refugees admitted is 80th. Those numbers are basically pulled out of a hat.
Being illegal depends on an arbitrary determination of annual quotas.
The key point isn't whether an immigrant is illegal. It is why we choose to bar his entry. Some would say the history of immigration policy reveals a racist pattern. Others would say that the density of population today justifies the greater restrictiveness. In that regard. population density in the US is 178th in the world. We've got more room to absorb immigrants and a greater ability to assure a decent standard of living for all than any other country in the world. Maybe some of those illegals should been granted visas.
During the late 19th century, at the height of white immigration to the US, there were no quotas. Virtually anyone who wanted to come was admitted. Today, the rate of immigration to the US is 40th in the world. The rate of refugees admitted is 80th. Those numbers are basically pulled out of a hat.
Being illegal depends on an arbitrary determination of annual quotas.
The key point isn't whether an immigrant is illegal. It is why we choose to bar his entry. Some would say the history of immigration policy reveals a racist pattern. Others would say that the density of population today justifies the greater restrictiveness. In that regard. population density in the US is 178th in the world. We've got more room to absorb immigrants and a greater ability to assure a decent standard of living for all than any other country in the world. Maybe some of those illegals should been granted visas.
6
So, this is a national police force with a single mandate - to detain individuals on American soil - and a reporting structure that bypasses all local authority and laws and goes straight to Donald Trump. Quick question: when they run out of immigrants whom do you think they're going to go after next?
6
M: Time enough to discuss that when we've gotten rid of the illegals. I think it will take long enough that it will take longer than President Trump's eight years.
1
I believe that if someone is black or slightly so, that person is in jeopardy. You can be an American of several generations and it will not matter. These are scary times. Authority has been granted to many wannabes and the hidden hate will surface.
6
Couldn't we at least put a statute of limitations (SOL) on enforcement of the crime of illegal immigration?
Currently there are many far more serious crimes covered by SOLs. Under current law a 65 year old, brought to the US illegally in infancy, who led a fine productive life and never broke any other laws, has no more right, under existing law, to remain in the US than a mass murderer.
Some now question the right to US citizenship for US born children of illegal immigrants. Would I then have no right to US citizenship if my ancestors were illegal immigrants to New York in 1750?
Currently there are many far more serious crimes covered by SOLs. Under current law a 65 year old, brought to the US illegally in infancy, who led a fine productive life and never broke any other laws, has no more right, under existing law, to remain in the US than a mass murderer.
Some now question the right to US citizenship for US born children of illegal immigrants. Would I then have no right to US citizenship if my ancestors were illegal immigrants to New York in 1750?
7
And what probable cause did ICE have to look at everyone's ID in that plane? If they knew they wetelooking for a male suspect for example, why would they need to look at IDs of females?
And why aren't they picking up employers when they're picking up the undocumented employees?
And why aren't they picking up employers when they're picking up the undocumented employees?
10
Federal agents are entitled to ask for your ID, or to search you, when within the airport secured zone. It's been a few years, but after 9/11, ID was commonly checked a second time and hand baggage often searched again.
4
Even after you already cleared the security checkpoints? I suspect this is true only if they have a reasonable suspicion. Since they checked everyone's documents indiscriminately, I suspect they were just "fishing" without any suspicion.
2
Nope. They'd check at the gate a second time. Another surge of it after the shoe bomber. I've been an elite frequent flyer for over 20 years. You notice these things.
There's a sign you may notice when you go through TSA at the airport, warning that you are still subject to further search. That includes showing an ID.
There's a sign you may notice when you go through TSA at the airport, warning that you are still subject to further search. That includes showing an ID.
1
Statements that ICE enforcement has become "fun" when ICE enforcement has become more and more focused on destroying immigrant families reinforces a clear impression that a significant proportion of ICE agents are simply thugs. The Arizona agent's comment “Which part of illegal don’t people understand?” applied equally to a violent criminal and a false SS number obtained so an immigrant can sweat picking crops to support their family and pay taxes indicates the shallowness and malice of some of the ICE agents.
15
How does enforcement of existing laws demonstrate "shallowness and malice" on the part of the agents designated to enforce the laws? It would seem to be negligence on their part for failing to enforce the law!
1
There is a phrase for a nation where the police forces are "unshackled": Police state.
20
I'm really tired with the, "We're a nation of laws crap." It's an infantile argument with absolutely no depth. Notice how this puerile argument is not used by TRUMP and his supporters when it comes to the environment, education and the corporate world. All those nasty laws meant to protect the average American citizen are being dismantled at a dizzying pace. Whose tax dollars are going to fund the 10,000 extra agents, and the 5,000 ,SUVs and the private enterprise detention jail centers?
24
OK. Why should anyone obey IRS rules and tax laws?
(((mic drop)))
(((mic drop)))
6
Please name one group that has been openly granted "sanctuary" from the law?
Obama made everyone buy his Obamacare insurance or face stiff penalties. No sanctuary there. The Attorney General can crack down on you like a ton of bricks when it decides to do so. No sanctuary there. (Just ask police departments across the country.)
Creating a special class of people who don't have to follow the law is a seriously misguided move. An egregious one for a president.
Obama made everyone buy his Obamacare insurance or face stiff penalties. No sanctuary there. The Attorney General can crack down on you like a ton of bricks when it decides to do so. No sanctuary there. (Just ask police departments across the country.)
Creating a special class of people who don't have to follow the law is a seriously misguided move. An egregious one for a president.
2
Enforcing the Law is in the interest of the citizens of our nation and those who LEGALLY apply and are in a proper waiting period.
We will have many more job opportunities that will give our legal citizens a chance to compete against the unfair lower wages the illegals are willing to work for. When more Americans are doing minimum wage work, the minimum wage will rise accordingly and without fuss by anyone. Employers who complain about losing low paid workers are exactly like those who export our jobs overseas in unfair trade deals that don't require an equal amount of product purchased from us.
THANK GOD FOR TRUMP.
We will have many more job opportunities that will give our legal citizens a chance to compete against the unfair lower wages the illegals are willing to work for. When more Americans are doing minimum wage work, the minimum wage will rise accordingly and without fuss by anyone. Employers who complain about losing low paid workers are exactly like those who export our jobs overseas in unfair trade deals that don't require an equal amount of product purchased from us.
THANK GOD FOR TRUMP.
13
Illegal immigrants come to our country because of its law-abiding citizenry and legal system. They, more than anyone, should appreciate our respect for laws and belief that our responsibility is to follow laws as written.
We have a process for changing laws we no longer want to enforce. We do it through elections of legislators who write the laws. We do not do it through nasty threats and harassment of those who follow them; nor do we just decide arbitrarily to not follow laws. That's a recipe for disaster -- the kind of disaster from which they likely fled.
We have a process for changing laws we no longer want to enforce. We do it through elections of legislators who write the laws. We do not do it through nasty threats and harassment of those who follow them; nor do we just decide arbitrarily to not follow laws. That's a recipe for disaster -- the kind of disaster from which they likely fled.
5
I'm disappointed but not too surprised reading that:
“Morale amongst our agents and officers has increased exponentially...the unions representing ICE and Border Patrol agents said..."
Unions, even public ones, are all about defending the civil rights of individuals against institutional power to curtail rights. This union response tells me that US law enforcement officers simply aren't to be trusted to follow the spirit of the Constitution's protections for individuals. Instead, they're the power seeking secret police of a tyranny.
“Morale amongst our agents and officers has increased exponentially...the unions representing ICE and Border Patrol agents said..."
Unions, even public ones, are all about defending the civil rights of individuals against institutional power to curtail rights. This union response tells me that US law enforcement officers simply aren't to be trusted to follow the spirit of the Constitution's protections for individuals. Instead, they're the power seeking secret police of a tyranny.
9
Did you notice the description of the typical agent--predominantly male and often having served in the military, police department, or both? Yup, a bunch of gung-ho Rambo types rounding people up like cattle. It's a national disgrace.
Trump is not defending America. He is making America not worth defending.
14
Every morning I wake up with distain for the president who has demonstrated over and over again that he lacks decency, compassion, and respect for other humans. If he looks himself into the mirror, I wonder if he is really fond of himself? Of course, he is, because he is a villain. I can only hope that the ICE folks maintain their cool and act as true civil servants and ignore the bigotry of their boss.
7
Regardless of national origin, religion, o skin color, no one in his right mind should consider immigrating into the US at this time. Maybe in the future things might change for the better, but right now the US is an increasingly dangerous place. Anybody fortunate enough to hold dual citizenship, regardless of race or social standing, should seriously consider leaving before it is too late. The future of the US looks dark and there is no reassurance constitutional rights will be respected.
7
So we are enforcing our laws... tell me again why that it a bad thing? If you are a US citizen and don't like the law then get it changed.
12
i believe the majority would like the law to change. However, comprehensive immigration reform has been blocked many times by the right wing in congress.
5
Everyone has been saying "it can't happen here" about the various outrageous proposals of Trump and his gang and the anti-democratic outrages being threatened, Well, guess what it IS happening here...now!
Attempts to gag a free press and demonize THEM? Check!
Unqualified zealots with outrageous, anti-democratic ideas? Check!
Disdain for democratic processes and love of strong-man decrees and ruling by fiat? Check!
And now "emboldened" black-shirted and -coated paramilitary types stopping people outside churches and on international air flights and travel? Actung, your papers, pleeze!
It IS happening here!
Attempts to gag a free press and demonize THEM? Check!
Unqualified zealots with outrageous, anti-democratic ideas? Check!
Disdain for democratic processes and love of strong-man decrees and ruling by fiat? Check!
And now "emboldened" black-shirted and -coated paramilitary types stopping people outside churches and on international air flights and travel? Actung, your papers, pleeze!
It IS happening here!
14
Gee, I hope they get bonuses like the Wells Fargo bank employees. Is this a great country or what?
2
It's becoming Great, Again.
3
Define what you mean by "great". Also define what you mean by "again" by selecting the time frame and the conditions in which A Erica was great.
How do I react to this? Anger? Empathy? Ridicule? Resignation? Combativeness? Acceptance? Do I write a poem? A torrent of words? Offer sage advice? Or spout nihilism?
Truisms ring true, but say nothing. Religion consoles, and oddly subdues- offering rewards, but not of this world.
At some point- when this all began, I was thinking: Fight or Flight. Leave America. But that was cowardly. Flight was based more on a deep cynicism towards my fellow Americans.
But, I no longer have that cynicism. People are more and more awakened. They less and less compartmentalize- and more and more generalize. Each day, their sensibilities jarred by some inanity and hate. Each day less and less able to retreat to their habitual modes of escape.
So I only offer one truly consoling word. One.
Act
It's not about me. It's not about how I feel. It's not about selfish desires. It's not even about love- unless it is the rare, unselfish kind, that compels sacrifice, has the couage to fight and never loses faith.
Act
Truisms ring true, but say nothing. Religion consoles, and oddly subdues- offering rewards, but not of this world.
At some point- when this all began, I was thinking: Fight or Flight. Leave America. But that was cowardly. Flight was based more on a deep cynicism towards my fellow Americans.
But, I no longer have that cynicism. People are more and more awakened. They less and less compartmentalize- and more and more generalize. Each day, their sensibilities jarred by some inanity and hate. Each day less and less able to retreat to their habitual modes of escape.
So I only offer one truly consoling word. One.
Act
It's not about me. It's not about how I feel. It's not about selfish desires. It's not even about love- unless it is the rare, unselfish kind, that compels sacrifice, has the couage to fight and never loses faith.
Act
5
I am a 56 year old carpenter. I have worked as a carpenter and contractor in California my entire adult life. I have worked shoulder to shoulder with immigrants from Mexico, Guatemala, Nicaragua, China, and Russia. MY personal experience has taught me that people are people no matter were they come from. Immigrants come to work hard and make a better life for there families. Demonizing Immigrants is wrong and unfair. Pretending that large waves of immigrants don't have any negative effects is also wrong. I have seen the wages of construction workers virtually frozen for decades. I have seen our schools severely impacted by large numbers of children who don't speak english. Our health care system has also been impacted by a large number of uninsured immigrants.
We now face a future were more and more low skill jobs will be replaced by machines. WE will not have enough jobs for the people that are already here.
We need to really think all these issues through. We need a plan
We now face a future were more and more low skill jobs will be replaced by machines. WE will not have enough jobs for the people that are already here.
We need to really think all these issues through. We need a plan
15
The only plan is improving education.
Seriously, nothing has changed since I was a kid.
Except that the living and working conditions of an unskilled worker are better today than they were back then.
The only difference is that TODAY the the internet has made sure that every unskilled worker is aware of what other people who have spent their youth acquiring skills can afford. Back then, that was all smoke and fairy tales.
That will never change, unless you want to bring socialism back and you know how well that has worked.
After all, we won the Cold War. Exactly because socialism just doesn't work!
Seriously, nothing has changed since I was a kid.
Except that the living and working conditions of an unskilled worker are better today than they were back then.
The only difference is that TODAY the the internet has made sure that every unskilled worker is aware of what other people who have spent their youth acquiring skills can afford. Back then, that was all smoke and fairy tales.
That will never change, unless you want to bring socialism back and you know how well that has worked.
After all, we won the Cold War. Exactly because socialism just doesn't work!
If you deport 100 "unauthorized" immigrants, and only 50 are "serious" criminals, that means the other 50 also cannot commit any violent crimes in the future. The Times has a feature in 2016 where every murder was chronicled in the 40th precinct. One murderer was an "unauthorized" immigrant with no previous criminal history (they knew of, at least). He shot and killed aspiring rapper, a law-abiding man in an argument over beer.
This is not to say that citizens don't also commit crime. But it's an obvious point: you can't commit crimes when you are not here in the first place. I'm glad ICE feels they can do their job, provided they do it responsibly and minimize the chance of violence. Seeing their strategies (waiting till immigrants come outside), this reassures me.
This is not to say that citizens don't also commit crime. But it's an obvious point: you can't commit crimes when you are not here in the first place. I'm glad ICE feels they can do their job, provided they do it responsibly and minimize the chance of violence. Seeing their strategies (waiting till immigrants come outside), this reassures me.
7
The President used fear to win the election. He is using fear to propel his administration. Let's call it "fake fear."
Three traits of humans are feeding this: the tendency to fear those different from oneself. And the urge to control the behavior of others, particularly if those others are perceived as either dangerous or weak. And finally, greed.
What is the concentration on immigrants but fear and the glee in control? What is the desire for so many guns? Fear and the desire for control. What is the attention to women's reproductive decisions? Fear and glee in control. What is the urge to thwart the EPA? Fear of other species and the delight in wiping them out, along with the wimps and weaklings who want to protect them. And of course, greed.
Three traits of humans are feeding this: the tendency to fear those different from oneself. And the urge to control the behavior of others, particularly if those others are perceived as either dangerous or weak. And finally, greed.
What is the concentration on immigrants but fear and the glee in control? What is the desire for so many guns? Fear and the desire for control. What is the attention to women's reproductive decisions? Fear and glee in control. What is the urge to thwart the EPA? Fear of other species and the delight in wiping them out, along with the wimps and weaklings who want to protect them. And of course, greed.
5
The election was Hillary's to lose and she did so by refusing to campaign to win votes and calling her fellow Americans deplorable. She lost the only test that decides the presidency (EC). Don't blame Trump for winning.
3
@DC
Just for the record. Hillary had a point.
But she didn't lose the election because of it.
She lost because the antiquated Electoral College system favors rural Republican states....
She also won the popular vote by 3 MILLION.
Just for the record. Hillary had a point.
But she didn't lose the election because of it.
She lost because the antiquated Electoral College system favors rural Republican states....
She also won the popular vote by 3 MILLION.
There are times in our history where a large part of the population is seeking a voice on a certain issue or issues. Trump caught that lightning, as did, say, Andrew Jackson in his day, or FDR. They could not be stopped, and in this election, many did try. I think that the future will judge President Trump's election as inevitable, and us present day folk somewhat blind for not seeing the tide that was running so powerfully to him.
1
The often-cited "potential" for abuse is anything but potential; it's real and ongoing, even before Trump's new OE. ICE on the border has flaunted a culture of license and unaccountability for years. Gratuitous beatings? Immigrant deaths in custody? Cross-border shootings of unarmed juveniles? These are nothing new; what's new is the heightened level of impunity conferred by this draconian new regime.
6
With all of the criminals the Obama administration claimed to have deported you would think there couldn't possibly be one criminal left. Two and a half million people were said to be deported under Obama. Did we have that many criminals here? I don't think so. However I never read about anyone panicking about the deportations when Obama was in office like they are doing now. So where is the problem?
7
A lot of people DID criticize Obama over this! But T's intention is appealing to the lowep instincts in humans in order to divide and conquer. Your letter is testimony to his success. Congratulations!
2
Obama's "deportations" were primarily people turned away at the border. No other president had ever counted border turn aways as "deportations." In this way, Obama hid the fact that his internal deportation figures were significantly lower. An illegal immigrant already living here practically had to kill someone to get deported. All other crimes were not grounds for deportation.
Law enforcement must have felt as though it had fallen through the looking glass under Obama. Enter Trump. Illegal means "illegal" again. Laws are being executed instead of ignored. That is what people are up in arms about. (Plus the fact that it's Trump.)
Law enforcement must have felt as though it had fallen through the looking glass under Obama. Enter Trump. Illegal means "illegal" again. Laws are being executed instead of ignored. That is what people are up in arms about. (Plus the fact that it's Trump.)
7
' An illegal immigrant already living here practically had to kill someone to get deported.'
Let's add - And be convicted. If you arrest them, give them a court date, let them go, and they disappear, you have to all purposes released them.
I remember the story of an illegal alien in the Chicago area who had 40 sex charges against him, some involving minors. Now 1 or 2 could be a he-says-she-says type of situation, but 40?
So what did we do? Slapped on an ankle monitoring device, gave him a court date, and sent him home.
What did he do? He removed the device and disappeared.
So now he's likely floating around somewhere with his proclivity for sexual crimes.
Not all of those 'innocent' illegal aliens may be so innocent.
Furthermore deportation isn't punishment. It's merely adjusting the person here illegally to his proper status. Sort of like removing a trespasser.
Let's add - And be convicted. If you arrest them, give them a court date, let them go, and they disappear, you have to all purposes released them.
I remember the story of an illegal alien in the Chicago area who had 40 sex charges against him, some involving minors. Now 1 or 2 could be a he-says-she-says type of situation, but 40?
So what did we do? Slapped on an ankle monitoring device, gave him a court date, and sent him home.
What did he do? He removed the device and disappeared.
So now he's likely floating around somewhere with his proclivity for sexual crimes.
Not all of those 'innocent' illegal aliens may be so innocent.
Furthermore deportation isn't punishment. It's merely adjusting the person here illegally to his proper status. Sort of like removing a trespasser.
1
At hitler's order, the nazis murdered 200,000 to 250,000 handicapped, ill or otherwise disabled persons. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aktion_T4) Having sacrificed over 400,000 inexpressibly sacred American military lives -- and including our allies, a sacrifice of tens of millions -- to defeat this horrific, criminal enemy, the United States of America would, of course, never even remotely consider electing to office anyone exhibiting any disregard for the disabled or justifying and promoting the persecution of any other vulnerable persons for any reason, whatsoever.
5
The cracy thing is, your country in ww2 liberated germany from a dictator fighting for democraty and now itself is on the way of loosing its democraty.
4
The United States of America is not, and has never been, a democracy! We are a democratic republic!
2
On the question of who we are putting in positions of authority in order to enforce federal law, take a look at Raymond Bonner's piece in ProPublica this week on Gina Haspell, Trump's pick for the 2nd in command at the CIA: known for her authoritarian presence at torture sessions:
https://www.propublica.org/article/cia-cables-detail-its-new-deputy-dire...
These are now the kinds of people who are increasingly 'in charge' in our country, and this kind of behavior gives a license to these border guards, to the officials at airports who are harassing visitors, and hoodlums who deface cemeteries.
https://www.propublica.org/article/cia-cables-detail-its-new-deputy-dire...
These are now the kinds of people who are increasingly 'in charge' in our country, and this kind of behavior gives a license to these border guards, to the officials at airports who are harassing visitors, and hoodlums who deface cemeteries.
6
Just because something is "the law" does not make it just. That's how the Nazis got away with rounding up the Jews; it was "the law." So all the "law-abiding" citizens felt all self-righteous and stuff while SS/ICE thugs went about their "law enforcement." The people who rely on the law alone need to really think about this more deeply. It is not that simple. What we need is Congress to stop sulking around, hiding from this issue, and grow some spine. Congress! Change the law!
10
What sort of a law would you like to see?
Do you want a Reagan style amnesty?
Something else?
Do you want a Reagan style amnesty?
Something else?
1
Immigrant = Good
Illegal Immigrant = Bad
Please stop conflating the two.
It may suit your agenda to describe illegal aliens as "undocumented" (immigrant or otherwise), but the simple fact remains, anyone who is in our country without permission is breaking our Laws. They are not immigrants, they are law breakers and should be removed to their country of origin.
Compassion is one thing, but where is the compassion for those negatively affected by their criminal presence? Where is the compassion for those harmed? Where is the compassion for those who have lost a family member at the hands of criminal illegal aliens?
ICE agents now have the authority (and duty) to do their job under the Law. If we don't like these laws we can petition to change them. The NYT and many of the commenters here are out of touch with American public sentiment on this matter.
Illegal Immigrant = Bad
Please stop conflating the two.
It may suit your agenda to describe illegal aliens as "undocumented" (immigrant or otherwise), but the simple fact remains, anyone who is in our country without permission is breaking our Laws. They are not immigrants, they are law breakers and should be removed to their country of origin.
Compassion is one thing, but where is the compassion for those negatively affected by their criminal presence? Where is the compassion for those harmed? Where is the compassion for those who have lost a family member at the hands of criminal illegal aliens?
ICE agents now have the authority (and duty) to do their job under the Law. If we don't like these laws we can petition to change them. The NYT and many of the commenters here are out of touch with American public sentiment on this matter.
15
Yeah - we should have some compassion for all those American citizens who have lost a family member to an undocumented and violent housemaid or crop worker. That criminal element is a threat to our safety and security.
4
Are you out raged over T's plans to take away healthcare from 20 million people? His staggering security cost, money that should be spent on needy people ?
1
Rob
You think we liberals are out of touch, and YOU want the laws enforced. Ok, here goes.
8 US Code 1324a makes it an offense TO HIRE an illegal immigrant.
If we enforced that law against EMPLOYERS, which provides civil and criminal penalties, including fines and jail time, there would be many fewer illegal immigrants who would come here to work.
I suggest they tart with a scofflaw who has repeatedly employed illegals, and who bunks these days at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington, DC.
But we do not enforce that law.
WHY IS THAT?
You think we liberals are out of touch, and YOU want the laws enforced. Ok, here goes.
8 US Code 1324a makes it an offense TO HIRE an illegal immigrant.
If we enforced that law against EMPLOYERS, which provides civil and criminal penalties, including fines and jail time, there would be many fewer illegal immigrants who would come here to work.
I suggest they tart with a scofflaw who has repeatedly employed illegals, and who bunks these days at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington, DC.
But we do not enforce that law.
WHY IS THAT?
“They wanted unfettered discretion.” - what an extraordinary example of euphemistic double-speak. George Orwell rolling in his grave. The ghost of Heinrich Himmler laughing in the rafters. The point, which seems to be missed: once you condone the "rounding up" of essentially innocent people - yes undocumented, but no, not violent - then who comes next? The thugs that do the rounding up are having "fun", so they will find new targets once they run out of hapless immigrants. Who is next? Anyone with unpaid traffic tickets? People with the wrong political party or religion? Who?
18
ICE Agents getting to do their job and Uphold the Immigration laws they are employed to enforce. Ok, that makes perfect sense that they can do their job. The real news is why are people defending Illegal Invaders who violate our Immigration Laws entering The United States. The Citizens of The United States are tired of this. Not all Illegals are bad people but they all committed a crime coming here Illegally. Any Illegal who commits any additional crimes such as stealing an SSN, Illegally voting or obtaining benefits they are not entitled to deserves to be imprisoned and pay restitution before being deported bad to their country of origin with no chance of being allowed to return to The United States for a long time. If they were deported and came back Illegally again, at what point do actually consider them a Risk ? There are many others who commit violent crimes and they need to be dealt with swiftly. There are constant news stories about US Citizens getting killed by people Illegally in The United States. There should be more outrage against that instead of a Federal Agency doing their job.
49
The constant PCspeak does not change the fact that the majority of these people are much more than "illegal immigrants". Most are refugees, whether from violence, crime, or abject poverty. "As you have done unto the least of these....". If you don't know the rest or it's equivalent, which is taught in every major religion in the world, I am beginning to understand you and your peers.
2
Constant news stories where? Faux News? Breitbart? Not any news source I read or view. And you're not the only "Citizen". I am, too, and I disagree vehemently. The vast majority of these folks are MORE law abiding than the average teen.
Where are the "constant news stories about US citizens getting killed by people illegally in the United States?" This sounds like demagoguery from Donald Trump. Undocumented workers have good reason to avoid breaking any kind of law, including traffic laws. They're less prone to violent crime than other populations.
This police state approach to immigration control reminds me of nothing less than the Gestapo rounding up Jews in 1940 Germany. It's an abomination. As then, the question on everybody's mind should be, "Who's next?"
21
It is sloppy thinking to compare Nazi Germany to the current enforcement of our immigration laws. The Jews were citizens of their European countries and had committed no crimes. Illegal immigrants break the law by entering this country illegally, stealing or making up SS numbers, driving without licenses, etc. It is easy to inflame passions by shouting Hitler, Nazi, Gestapo, brown-shirt, etc but what happened during that dark era is not what is happening today and anyone thinking the two are the same needs to read a history book or two.
1
Really? An abomination? That's just delusional...the Jews in 1940 Germany were German CITIZENS! This is about illegal aliens, not US citizens!
1
If the ability to lurk outside a church and swipe nonviolent immigrants away from their families is boosting "morale," there's something very wrong.
24
Have there been significant legal challenges to what seems like the unfettered power exercised by ICE and Homeland Security? These actions seem so counter to fundamental American principles of how police agencies interact with the public as to be constitutionally problematic. How is it that agents are legally allowed to stop anyone who looks like an immigrant and consider them guilty of being here illegally and subject to being held without due process unless they can prove otherwise.
7
When people from the East are in charge of immigration, this is the kind of thing you get. They have no concept of life anywhere near the border.
Democracy Today reported ICE agents removing a woman from a hospital where she was receiving treatment for a serious brain disease and took her to a detention center in Texas. What brave guys. Put those ICE agents to work harvesting fruit and vegetables. There are no words for the profound disgust I have for them.
14
I read about this also. The poor woman has a brain tumor and was scheduled for emergency surgery. ICE removed her from the hospital. Nazi Germany and Trump's America have so much in common now in terms of the absolute cruelty and the targeting of innocent people.
2
And if that is true, she will very likely be issued a B-2 visa for compassionate reasons, and be permitted to continue with her treatment. She will then be able to turn all of her attention to her recovery, without the added stress of worry about deportation. Since you're so concerned, Dianne, why don't you retain an immigration lawyer for her, and even offer to be her sponsor in the USA?
2
you cannot have it both ways-
either open your border and declare anyone who crosses it legal;
or
if someone is illegally here they should be deported asap.
either open your border and declare anyone who crosses it legal;
or
if someone is illegally here they should be deported asap.
12
Couldn't be happier! Imagine that, immigration agents doing what they are supposed to do and enforcing the law.
11
Divide and conquer at work. You are a happy victim!
1
If a person is in the country and have not gone through the legal process of entering the country legally then they should be returned to the country where they have legal residency. Once they are back in the country where they have legal residency then they can go through the legal process of applying for entry into the U.S.A. Orderly and legal immigration.
This may be academic for those of you who have white skin, but those of us who brown or have dark skin or speak with a Spanish accent, do we now have to carry identification and proof of American citizenship with us at all times? Guilty until proven innocent. This is the start of the demise of Democracy and the rise of an Authoritarian government.
Enforcing the law is always a good thing. This is excellent news.
10
Reading this article, I cannot help finding similarities between the arrests mentioned here, and the operations that paramilitary forces carried in South America during the 70s. People were taken before dawn there to avoid being seen. At the beginning they said they were arresting people; after a while those people disappeared without trace. It was called "State Terrorism" there. These are unfortunately the fist signs.
9
I used to believe that we are a nation of laws. But it seems we have no laws to protect anyone who is, or might look like, an immigrant.
Do we have no laws to protect a young child, a citizen of the US, from having a parent abruptly and forcibly taken away, based only on the discretion of an ICE agent? What kind of sick society are we? And what kind of society do we expect to become after many US citizens (and non-citizen human beings) have become victims of such atrocities.
The situation in the US today sounds frighteningly similar to what went on in Germany in the thirties, and look what happened there. How many millions will suffer or be killed before the current US wave of inhumanity to man passes?
I did not know about ICE trucks until reading this article, but believe me, I will now watch out for and fear them.
Do we have no laws to protect a young child, a citizen of the US, from having a parent abruptly and forcibly taken away, based only on the discretion of an ICE agent? What kind of sick society are we? And what kind of society do we expect to become after many US citizens (and non-citizen human beings) have become victims of such atrocities.
The situation in the US today sounds frighteningly similar to what went on in Germany in the thirties, and look what happened there. How many millions will suffer or be killed before the current US wave of inhumanity to man passes?
I did not know about ICE trucks until reading this article, but believe me, I will now watch out for and fear them.
12
From "Grapes of Wrath" Steinbeck
"This is the beginning—from "I" to "we". If you who own the things people must have could understand this, you might preserve yourself. If you could separate causes from results, if you could know that Paine, Marx, Jefferson, Lenin were results, not causes, you might survive. But that you cannot know. For the quality of owning freezes you forever into "I", and cuts you off forever from the "we".
— Chapter 14"
Steinbeck was known to have borrowed from field notes taken during 1938 by Farm Security Administration worker and author Sanora Babb. While Babb collected personal stories about the lives of the displaced migrants for a novel she was developing, her supervisor, Tom Collins, shared her reports with Steinbeck, then working at the San Francisco News. Babb's own novel, Whose Names Are Unknown, was eclipsed in 1939 by the success of The Grapes of Wrath and was shelved until it was finally published in 2004, a year before Babb's death.
The Grapes of Wrath developed from The Harvest Gypsies, a series of seven articles that ran in the San Francisco News, from October 5 to 12, 1936. The newspaper commissioned that work on migrant workers from the Midwest in California's agriculture industry.
"This is the beginning—from "I" to "we". If you who own the things people must have could understand this, you might preserve yourself. If you could separate causes from results, if you could know that Paine, Marx, Jefferson, Lenin were results, not causes, you might survive. But that you cannot know. For the quality of owning freezes you forever into "I", and cuts you off forever from the "we".
— Chapter 14"
Steinbeck was known to have borrowed from field notes taken during 1938 by Farm Security Administration worker and author Sanora Babb. While Babb collected personal stories about the lives of the displaced migrants for a novel she was developing, her supervisor, Tom Collins, shared her reports with Steinbeck, then working at the San Francisco News. Babb's own novel, Whose Names Are Unknown, was eclipsed in 1939 by the success of The Grapes of Wrath and was shelved until it was finally published in 2004, a year before Babb's death.
The Grapes of Wrath developed from The Harvest Gypsies, a series of seven articles that ran in the San Francisco News, from October 5 to 12, 1936. The newspaper commissioned that work on migrant workers from the Midwest in California's agriculture industry.
6
Of course the agents are happy. These are clearly trigger happy law enforcement types who love brandishing their badge to exert their power over others. They are emboldened and empowered by this disgrace of an administration.
But are we safer as a nation? Are we better off in any way? Is our economy stronger? Are we less likely to suffer crimes at the hands of dangerous would-be felons?
The answer to all of those is no. Resoundingly no. But we have a bunch of happy agents who now get to say "Show me your papers!" to anyone who doesn't look like them.
And that right there is what this election was about to Trump voters. Hope they are happy - the electoral retribution will be fierce. And once the Democrats regain control of government, I hope they make it so these types of people never have their way in policy ever again.
But are we safer as a nation? Are we better off in any way? Is our economy stronger? Are we less likely to suffer crimes at the hands of dangerous would-be felons?
The answer to all of those is no. Resoundingly no. But we have a bunch of happy agents who now get to say "Show me your papers!" to anyone who doesn't look like them.
And that right there is what this election was about to Trump voters. Hope they are happy - the electoral retribution will be fierce. And once the Democrats regain control of government, I hope they make it so these types of people never have their way in policy ever again.
7
The real problem are those that employee the undocumented. We would not have this problem if there weren't so many who stand to gain from hiring illegal immigrants. People don't risk crossing the border just to rape and pillage, as Trump suggests; they come to work.
9
What you mean "we," eh? Your laws are dramatically different than ours, and contingent on "The Queen Mother" across the ocean.
Here's an idea. Let everyone who want's to stay-stay. They just can never vote. That would make us all happy, right?
2
You have just hit on it.
Notice how the main argument of the Progressives is that the illegal immigrants do lowly work at low wages.
They used to be called serfs.
Progressives are happy having serfs as long as they get to vote.
Notice how the main argument of the Progressives is that the illegal immigrants do lowly work at low wages.
They used to be called serfs.
Progressives are happy having serfs as long as they get to vote.
5
That's what we were told when Regan collaborated in illegal immigration in the 1980s to woo the Democrats. And look what happened. "Fool me once....."
4
Not Democrats. They want to import a new electorate
4
So, precisely who are these 15,000 new hires, whom Mr. Trump has hired so quickly. How could they possibly have been vetted for these jobs?
And might they just represent the same violent, jack-booted racists and jingoists who permeated his campaign rallies?
And might they just represent the same violent, jack-booted racists and jingoists who permeated his campaign rallies?
5
They haven't been hired yet. It will be difficult, if not impossible, to hire even 5,000 of them.
ICE agents have to make their numbers, that is the nature of the system. It is a job, and probably well paid as blue collar jobs go these days. With no constraints on who to arrest, it is a lot easier to make their quotas by collecting women and children than bad hombres. Our borders are going to get a lot more dangerous as ICE agents figure out the easiest way to do their jobs.
2
So much for Amerika being "as a city upon a hill," to quote Puritan John Winthrop aboard his flagship Arbella in 1630 as part of his sermon, "A Model of Christian Charity."
All ICE needs to complete the picture are red, white and black armbands over the sleeve of a brown shirt.
"Cry, the Beloved Country."
All ICE needs to complete the picture are red, white and black armbands over the sleeve of a brown shirt.
"Cry, the Beloved Country."
7
Terrifying. As a green card holder, that got it via the extraordinary ability category section of the immigration law, I am starting to feel concerned.
What if a neighbor doesn't like me just because my nose twitches the wrong way and makes an anonymous call?
What if my toddler takes my green card from my wallet playfully and I cannot provide evidence that I am legal? Then what? Retain a lawyer?
I just hope that at least someone will benefit from this. But for all the construction workers, legal farm workers, and babysitters in waiting, check your economics 101 and don't inflate your hopes. Just because the supply of cheap labor diminishes, doesn't mean that its wages will go up.
And that's because the professional class has been squished to the bottom with high depreciation of real wages, rising daycare tuition, and other costs. The anedoctal evidence comes from people I know, with combined incomes north of 6digits, and that buy used, go to consignment stores and the like. If people cannot hire cheap landscaping services, they will probably mow the lawn themselves.
(But I do hope I am wrong and that all this suffering is not for nothing)
What if a neighbor doesn't like me just because my nose twitches the wrong way and makes an anonymous call?
What if my toddler takes my green card from my wallet playfully and I cannot provide evidence that I am legal? Then what? Retain a lawyer?
I just hope that at least someone will benefit from this. But for all the construction workers, legal farm workers, and babysitters in waiting, check your economics 101 and don't inflate your hopes. Just because the supply of cheap labor diminishes, doesn't mean that its wages will go up.
And that's because the professional class has been squished to the bottom with high depreciation of real wages, rising daycare tuition, and other costs. The anedoctal evidence comes from people I know, with combined incomes north of 6digits, and that buy used, go to consignment stores and the like. If people cannot hire cheap landscaping services, they will probably mow the lawn themselves.
(But I do hope I am wrong and that all this suffering is not for nothing)
3
So what happens to these people after they are rounded up for deportation? They get sent over the border to Mexico but if the are from Guatemala does Mexico send them back to the US?
Since this move is uber profiling do Native Americans, Philipinos, and Hawaiians get nabbed? And why aren't Russian, Ukrainian, or Eastern European bad hombres getting the same treatment.
How much is this costing the tax payer? Tha salaries and benefits for the ICE army must be high. Is this good value in trade for the cheap farm labor provided by these people?
Since this move is uber profiling do Native Americans, Philipinos, and Hawaiians get nabbed? And why aren't Russian, Ukrainian, or Eastern European bad hombres getting the same treatment.
How much is this costing the tax payer? Tha salaries and benefits for the ICE army must be high. Is this good value in trade for the cheap farm labor provided by these people?
It's amazing, we are finally trying to enforce our laws and the lefties who long ago hijacked the democrat party are going ballistic...
Finally, American public service officers are able to do their job. Yes, it is sad when families of illegal aliens suffer. But then, what part of being illegal about anything is ever foolproof? There are millions of legal immigrants like me who support these actions of ICE.
8
Australian children's author Mem Fox detained by US border control: 'I sobbed like a baby' she reported. Muhammed Ali Jr. was detained two hours on his trip home from Jamaica. Why? Because he said he was Muslim. We are now truly the ugly Americans. Immigration officials will use and abuse their power. The fear of Trumps and his followers America will destroy us.
7
I have always wondered what impact will deportation have on social mobility for Latin American immigrants. Indeed, there are communities where you find generational poverty among Mexican Americans and Puerto Rican, but I wonder whether deportation will serve as a root cause for generational poverty for Mexican and Central American immigrants who arrived after the 1970s.
I'm ashamed to be an American.
5
Please don't use the word freedom in the same headline as the name Trump.
9
The subjects are not an "undocumented immigrant" or "unauthorized immigrants" but "illegal alien" as per law.
Any non-U.S. citizen is an alien. Aliens who have entered the US w/o permission, or who violated the admission terms are identified under the law as illegal aliens.
"The term “alien” is any person not a citizen or national of the United States."—US Code, Title 8, §1101(a)(3)
• "An illegal alien…is any alien (1) whose most recent entry into the United States was without inspection, or (2) whose most recent admission to the United States was as a nonimmigrant and—(A) whose period of authorized stay as a nonimmigrant expired, or (B) whose unlawful status was known to the Govt, before the date of the commission of the crime for which the alien is convicted."—US Code, Title 8, §1365(b)
The mainstream media are pushing their agenda of trying to decriminalize what is criminal behavior. It is a crime to enter the USA w/o permission. The 1st offense is a misdemeanor, the 2nd, a felony. It is true, that most violations of immigration law are dealt with in a civil court and not in a criminal court.
Insistence on terms as “undocumented worker” or "unauthorized immigrants" is a deliberate avoidance of the fact that people live here illegally in violation of law. Those who object to the use of the term “illegal alien” believe they can convince the public that illegal immigration is not really illegal, then amnesty no longer is amnesty, and enforcing immigration law is unnecessary.
Any non-U.S. citizen is an alien. Aliens who have entered the US w/o permission, or who violated the admission terms are identified under the law as illegal aliens.
"The term “alien” is any person not a citizen or national of the United States."—US Code, Title 8, §1101(a)(3)
• "An illegal alien…is any alien (1) whose most recent entry into the United States was without inspection, or (2) whose most recent admission to the United States was as a nonimmigrant and—(A) whose period of authorized stay as a nonimmigrant expired, or (B) whose unlawful status was known to the Govt, before the date of the commission of the crime for which the alien is convicted."—US Code, Title 8, §1365(b)
The mainstream media are pushing their agenda of trying to decriminalize what is criminal behavior. It is a crime to enter the USA w/o permission. The 1st offense is a misdemeanor, the 2nd, a felony. It is true, that most violations of immigration law are dealt with in a civil court and not in a criminal court.
Insistence on terms as “undocumented worker” or "unauthorized immigrants" is a deliberate avoidance of the fact that people live here illegally in violation of law. Those who object to the use of the term “illegal alien” believe they can convince the public that illegal immigration is not really illegal, then amnesty no longer is amnesty, and enforcing immigration law is unnecessary.
8
Yes, words matter and organizations such as the Times know it.
When Trump twists words around to manipulate the truth, or outright deceive, the press and we commenters are quick to call him on it, as we should be.
But we must live up to the standard we demand as well.
"Illegal alien" has a legal definition. "Refugee" has a legal definition. These words should be used accurately.
When Trump twists words around to manipulate the truth, or outright deceive, the press and we commenters are quick to call him on it, as we should be.
But we must live up to the standard we demand as well.
"Illegal alien" has a legal definition. "Refugee" has a legal definition. These words should be used accurately.
3
No one will argue the immigrants, illegal or unauthorized or undocumented, broke the law entering this country. Instead of decrying semantics think about what to do with them here. Our treatment will reflect our attitude as a country. Is America the kind of nation that welcomes foreigners with open arms, or that pushes them back saying "We don't want your kind around here."
Because frankly it's a myth that immigration is a zero-sum game and every job held by one doesn't go to a deserving hardworking American. Time and again studies have found that immigrants tend to take jobs no one else will. The rust belt former factory workers won't move to pick berries on hot California fields. They won't go into domestic service. Or animal processing in slaughterhouses.
But they, or their children, may open up a new restaurant, providing more jobs and pay more taxes. They might invent something, write or paint something contributing to the advancement of our culture. Their contributions would make the country better than if they had not come at all.
Deporting criminals and individuals deemed hostile to the country is proper. But when we are uprooting otherwise law-abiding families living here for decades, rounding people up in dragnets, suppressing if not utterly violating fourth amendment rights, let's take a step back and examine the end goals here. Economically immigrants help more than they hurt. Ethnically, however, they are not "us."
Because frankly it's a myth that immigration is a zero-sum game and every job held by one doesn't go to a deserving hardworking American. Time and again studies have found that immigrants tend to take jobs no one else will. The rust belt former factory workers won't move to pick berries on hot California fields. They won't go into domestic service. Or animal processing in slaughterhouses.
But they, or their children, may open up a new restaurant, providing more jobs and pay more taxes. They might invent something, write or paint something contributing to the advancement of our culture. Their contributions would make the country better than if they had not come at all.
Deporting criminals and individuals deemed hostile to the country is proper. But when we are uprooting otherwise law-abiding families living here for decades, rounding people up in dragnets, suppressing if not utterly violating fourth amendment rights, let's take a step back and examine the end goals here. Economically immigrants help more than they hurt. Ethnically, however, they are not "us."
There is a beautiful side to this story. When people are given the freedom to act, they can choose to act poorly; or they can treat people as individuals, show compassion, and do well.
The real job of the press should be to highlight those who do well.
Individuals who choose decency over stupid compliance, have always been more popular than those who take advantage of others. Publicize the good Agents, and they will flourish. Portray the bad Agents as insignificant, and they will become just that.
When ICE isn't cool, it will melt away.
The real job of the press should be to highlight those who do well.
Individuals who choose decency over stupid compliance, have always been more popular than those who take advantage of others. Publicize the good Agents, and they will flourish. Portray the bad Agents as insignificant, and they will become just that.
When ICE isn't cool, it will melt away.
3
Maybe they're happy that they can enforce the laws again. It must have been been terribly demoralizing to work under a president who would prosecute them for executing the law. Asking any law enforcers to purposely not execute their job is malfeasance.
9
But it's okay to have quota-driven motorcycle cops hiding behind every bush along the sides of the road we take to work each day? The're all "just doing their job", I suppose. We often like to selectively forget the context in which all these things are happening at the same time when it suits us.
2
As a former federal prosecutor, it concerns me that the comments reveal a confusion between ICE and the Border Patrol. ICE patrols the interior and is the subject of the changes by Trump. The Border Patrol does very different work. Most who cross he border illegally do so in groups led by one or more "coyotes". These coyotes charge for their services, often exorbitant amounts. There are plenty of instances where they have abandoned clients in the middle of the desert. And those who can't pay in full can be turned into indentured servants. Coyotes transport their clients to safe houses and sometimes abandon them there. Thousands die at the border every year and it is often the fault of the coyotes. The Border Patrol sends the clients back homer and then spends hours putting together criminal cases against the coyotes. A lot of coyotes are very dangerous people both to their clients and to the American public. When the Border Patrol does the work to throw them in jail, we are all better off.
8
Imagine what it must have been like being an ICE agent under Obama. You knew illegal immigrants were breaking the law by virtue of their living here without proper authorization. You knew they were even committing crimes. But you couldn't detain them unless they committed a major crime. You had to release them for anything short of that.
Most Americans would be screaming bloody murder if, say, bad cops or bad lawyers were allowed to behave with impunity. In fact, what other category of citizen gets a pass on following the law?
Most Americans would be screaming bloody murder if, say, bad cops or bad lawyers were allowed to behave with impunity. In fact, what other category of citizen gets a pass on following the law?
2
Good explanation.
And when we are too ready to welcome the clients on our side we are actually complicit in the crimes of the coyotes. We encourage the pattern and make it profitable.
The same can be said of all those American "victims" of drug abuse who purchase drugs originating south of our border. The money they spend to buy drugs goes directly to support some of the most vicious criminal gangs in the world. These "victims" of drug abuse are complicit in those gangs' crimes.
And when we are too ready to welcome the clients on our side we are actually complicit in the crimes of the coyotes. We encourage the pattern and make it profitable.
The same can be said of all those American "victims" of drug abuse who purchase drugs originating south of our border. The money they spend to buy drugs goes directly to support some of the most vicious criminal gangs in the world. These "victims" of drug abuse are complicit in those gangs' crimes.
2
The top five readers picks as I write this mention Nazi, brown shirts and storm troopers. Where were the authors of these comments while President Obama was deporting 2.4 Million people, placing unaccompanied children in for profit detention centers, increasing the number of ICE agents and building 100’s of miles of fence on our Southern Border. These authors are the vilest of hypocrites, using the most cataclysmic moment of human inhumanity and suffering in Western History to score a cheap political jibe. The result and most likely the purpose of these vile comments is to shut down debate and push the country further into opposing camps. Shameful.
13
One wonders whether this employment problem is exacerbated by the gigantic safety net Obama created. It doesn't appear that there is an exit once someone gets settled in it.
1
Illegals provide cheap labor so we can all profit.
We get cheap lawncare, cheap produce, cheap restaurant service, and cheap childcare.
They do nasty jobs for wages so low that no American will accept just to feed themselves.
The fear of deportation keeps many of them silent and compliant.
How is this all that different from slavery?
We get cheap lawncare, cheap produce, cheap restaurant service, and cheap childcare.
They do nasty jobs for wages so low that no American will accept just to feed themselves.
The fear of deportation keeps many of them silent and compliant.
How is this all that different from slavery?
5
You're on the right track, and no doubt America's foundation on the backs of slaves has ingrained into the culture that "lesser" races should do the menial jobs. But today the status attributed to undocumented Latino workers would more accurately described as "indentured servitude."
I am a "Liberal" and would never vote for Trump. But I also believe we need to restore legal order to our society on this subject of immigration. We cannot have a class of millions of people in this condition, in part, because they are such easy prey to abusers.
But I object to Trump's attitude towards them and to his strategy to solve the problem.
A blanket amnesty is certainly not the answer. Reagan tried that and here we are again. No, we need an approach that recognizes the complexity of people's lives. Prioritizing IS necessary.
We also need to be sensible to the cost/benefit situation. How much is it really worth spending on this situation when there are so many other things that need to be done, infrastructure repair, inner city unemployment and crime, education, healthcare...
Trump's attitude and approach is unbalanced. But he is more interested in putting on a show for his followers than solving problems.
But I object to Trump's attitude towards them and to his strategy to solve the problem.
A blanket amnesty is certainly not the answer. Reagan tried that and here we are again. No, we need an approach that recognizes the complexity of people's lives. Prioritizing IS necessary.
We also need to be sensible to the cost/benefit situation. How much is it really worth spending on this situation when there are so many other things that need to be done, infrastructure repair, inner city unemployment and crime, education, healthcare...
Trump's attitude and approach is unbalanced. But he is more interested in putting on a show for his followers than solving problems.
1
My contractor on Cape Cod says he can't get skilled American labor that will show up on time and/or don't have drug problems. In Boston Vietnamese immigrants will sand your floors and Irish roofers will rehang your gutters. There seems to be a breakdown in motivation and discipline in our homegrown working class, coupled with drug abuse, that has created these openings for determined foreigners. I see NO evidence that subtracting the illegals and the undocumented will open up jobs Americans will take; they could fill them now and don't. We should be grateful for the services and labor these foreigners provide us.
18
If I am a youth coming out of high school with two career fields in front of me, which do I pick? The service industry, where people who can speak English well are actually valued and wages are increasing? Or construction, which is currently overrun by employers willing to hire foreign day laborers at the cheapest rate possible, eliminating any chances of apprenticeship or longer term job security? If undocumented people were deported and just those skills are needed, market logic say the wages should increase and employers will be willing to train those willing to learn.
4
So, do you propose that we change nothing and leave this workers in an "illegal" status, which makes them easy victims of abuse by their employers? Maybe we want it that way because we get our roofs repaired cheaply?
Or do you have a constructive suggestion about what we can do to rectify a breakdown of the law on the issue of immigration?
Or do you have a constructive suggestion about what we can do to rectify a breakdown of the law on the issue of immigration?
Let the IceIce have their fun.
Why doesn't Mexico close it's northern border?
Rapists? Killers? Drug dealers? Gang bangers?
No thank you.
1,000's of unvetted people?
Non-Mexican nationals?
Ain't gonna happen.
Mexico should not accept a single person without EXTREME vetting.
What's good for T-Rex is good enough for Neito.
Why doesn't Mexico close it's northern border?
Rapists? Killers? Drug dealers? Gang bangers?
No thank you.
1,000's of unvetted people?
Non-Mexican nationals?
Ain't gonna happen.
Mexico should not accept a single person without EXTREME vetting.
What's good for T-Rex is good enough for Neito.
4
After the Second World War, Allied investigators asked members of the various police and military police agencies in Germany and in the "occupied European countries" like France, Poland or Russia,(then the USSR),an Eastern European states which were occupied by the Germans: "Why did you arrest, beat, torture and imprison, then send civilians-many of whom were citizens of Germany, to death camps ? Why did you aid in the shipping of tens of thousands of people via cattle cars, to slave labor and death camps in the East? Usually police and soldiers claimed that, had they refused that they, themselves, would have been arrested and sent to the death camps.
It has subsequently been proven that no German soldier who objected to such duty was ever refused a transfer to some other duty. Questions were never asked by commanders many of whom understood and shared the feelings of their men.
I wonder if, in coming decades, any members of ICE or HS will have been discovered harboring illegal immigrants in their basements or marrying them to protect them? How many will claim they actually did all they could to "humanize" the process. Or claim they only worked in offices or answered telephones? People should recall that America even finally tried to make amends for the mass internment of US citizens of Japanese descent and their families and their parents, in WWII.
This won't last forever. It may create a permanent bias against the Trump brand.
It has subsequently been proven that no German soldier who objected to such duty was ever refused a transfer to some other duty. Questions were never asked by commanders many of whom understood and shared the feelings of their men.
I wonder if, in coming decades, any members of ICE or HS will have been discovered harboring illegal immigrants in their basements or marrying them to protect them? How many will claim they actually did all they could to "humanize" the process. Or claim they only worked in offices or answered telephones? People should recall that America even finally tried to make amends for the mass internment of US citizens of Japanese descent and their families and their parents, in WWII.
This won't last forever. It may create a permanent bias against the Trump brand.
5
I appreciate your intelligent analyses and observations. I agree that this deportation debacle has dire consequences- one of which is collapsing the 6th largest economy in the world (California!). I urge you to paste your comments on Trump's Facebook page, as well as McConnell, Ryan, Chaffetz, and any other right wing fanatical supporters of these Executive Orders. Everyone has a cause or many that they feel passionate about defending. If we just preach to the choir, it won't be registered as dissent. Please send in your postcards on March 15th to the White House telling Trump "You're Fired!" And as you know, there are Town Halls going on (or not - to demand), teleconferences, marches, representative calling campaigns, local resistance meetings etc. This comment page is only the starting point....Let's take back our country. Good Luck!
8
Lock the barn! The Democrat horse has been stolen by the GOP!
A few years ago I was the manager of our county's juvenile hall. One of my officers, who is Hispanic, left to join ICE. He returned in less than a month. He explained to me that the training instructors made no bones about their racism and their contempt for those try to cross the border. He said he expected some level of this attitude; however, it was so blatant and so nasty that he could not continue participating. This prejudice is now emanating from the top on down and ICE officers are free to act on it.
166
Anecdotes aren't science.
3
Everytime I see the Media interview a Agent they are of Hispanic decent. Your statement does not jive with reality.
I also wonder why there are so many ICE people all over the world. If our government can't pass laws that are fair and manage immigration/refugees, are we saying we have to send these enforcers as well as ourmilitary all over the place? I am far from being an isolationist, but my idea of engagement is more through diplomacy and trade, not becoming the untamed tough guy globally. It is hard to believe what this country is becoming both at home and abroad. Thugs is the word that comes to mind.
This all has the appearance of going after brown skin people. Never see or hear about ICE rounding up people in other communities. For instance communities that have large groups of Asian and Russian people that were not born here.
This is the atmosphere Mr. Trump created.
This is the atmosphere Mr. Trump created.
121
Two reasons.
First, the majority of those in the country are Hispanic, therefore the majority of arrests will be of Hispanic people.
Second, it makes much better news when it fits into the picture they are trying to paint. The left would much rather paint the ICE as racist, so they would rather stories about how they are targeting Hispanics. The right wants to paint the Hispanic community as criminals, so they too would prefer stories about arrests in that group.
First, the majority of those in the country are Hispanic, therefore the majority of arrests will be of Hispanic people.
Second, it makes much better news when it fits into the picture they are trying to paint. The left would much rather paint the ICE as racist, so they would rather stories about how they are targeting Hispanics. The right wants to paint the Hispanic community as criminals, so they too would prefer stories about arrests in that group.
I wonder...perhaps the media is being selective in what stories it chooses to cover. Perhaps there are more reporters capable of speaking Spanish or of Hispanic descent who want to do stories involving their own heritage, rather than those who speak Chinese or Russian. Or perhaps, being substantially owned by Mexican Billionaire Carlos Slim,
The Times, known for giving top-down reporting orders, has an institional bias towards covering stories on Hispanics.
Have you thought of that?
The Times, known for giving top-down reporting orders, has an institional bias towards covering stories on Hispanics.
Have you thought of that?
2
Exactly. When ICE starts knocking on doors in Woodside and sending the Irish home, I'll know this isn't racist.
ICE is about to be feared by everyone. And there will be thousands more ICE agents.
Because they can grab anyone under "suspicion", no chance of a hearing, ICE agents soon will discover reporters and those protesting the Trump regime are "suspicious". Soon neighbors will be reporting neighbors as "suspicious".
It's perfect, eh?
Because they can grab anyone under "suspicion", no chance of a hearing, ICE agents soon will discover reporters and those protesting the Trump regime are "suspicious". Soon neighbors will be reporting neighbors as "suspicious".
It's perfect, eh?
6
Only legal American citizens get "hearings". All the others do not qualify since they have criminal warrants.
Charles, I am sure you would be ok with being detained, including in jail, being pulled off the street, and to have to prove you are a citizen? Or are you of nonHispanic descent, so not something you worry about?
1
Hey Charles: Now we have two kinds of American citizens: legal and illegal?? Rather, it is likely that the two kinds are distinguished as "suspicious" or "less suspicious", and the criteria separating them are, I'd hazard, even more suspicious.
1
"Execute true judgment, and shew mercy and compassions every man
to his brother:
And oppress not the widow, nor the fatherless, the stranger, nor the
poor; and let none of you imagine evil against his brother in your heart."
(Zechariah 7:9-10)
to his brother:
And oppress not the widow, nor the fatherless, the stranger, nor the
poor; and let none of you imagine evil against his brother in your heart."
(Zechariah 7:9-10)
And if everyone simply refuses to show their documents to the new ICE gestapo the next flight will be delayed.
5
How long before this flawed strategy turns into race based discrimination, where skin color and biological features are used to target even legal immigrants?
This is not a plan this is an authoritarian mandate! A fear based propaganda which will ensnare the innocent and embolden the evil!
I fear for my family because we're brown! And this is racial cleansing perpetrated under the banner of making America great.
This is not a plan this is an authoritarian mandate! A fear based propaganda which will ensnare the innocent and embolden the evil!
I fear for my family because we're brown! And this is racial cleansing perpetrated under the banner of making America great.
6
@Kalpen- If you are here legally then you have nothing to worry about..
Process the 11/12million instead of upsetting the economy. This is not Amnesty - this is an Economic Plan for the USA.
1. Sign up and Sign in and begin the process to citizenship (must have a clean record/no major criminal offenses).
2. Work out a financial plan to begin paying your back taxes (if applicable).
3. Once you have paid off your debt (back taxes) you are on your way to getting your U.S citizenship. It's a process.
*Those who don't sign up; those who don't or neglect to pay their back taxes
will be deported.
1. Sign up and Sign in and begin the process to citizenship (must have a clean record/no major criminal offenses).
2. Work out a financial plan to begin paying your back taxes (if applicable).
3. Once you have paid off your debt (back taxes) you are on your way to getting your U.S citizenship. It's a process.
*Those who don't sign up; those who don't or neglect to pay their back taxes
will be deported.
2
@Richard- I'm all for it- but you're never going to believe this.. It's actually cheaper to deport and re-admit them because the system is already in place to do so- It just needs to be beefed up with more people to accommodate the masses. In order to execute a new nation wide system to register illegal immigrants and keep them in country- it would require years of planning and billions of dollars. I understand the logic but dollars and sense wise- it's better to deport them- You can also stipulate those who self deport will take priority over those who have to be rounded-up and sent home at taxpayer expense.
1
John Kelly: “There is no greater calling than to serve and protect our nation,” he added, “a mission that the men and women of ICE perform with professionalism and courage every single day.” What a joke. Many CBP officers have increasingly been hostile towards anyone with a pulse (including Americans) entering this country for years. The immigration officers along the Canadian border have been spewing their hatred of immigrants to foreign nationals' faces for years. It's incredibly rare for an American to have a descent experience when returning from abroad let alone a foreign national. Now that the gloves are off, it will only be worse. Many are on a power trip - the job is now fun? How is it fun to treat someone worse than they would treat a dog?
4
I am fortunate to be born in this country, but I easily could not have been at all. I am wearing a yellow star on my work badge as I work for a very tolerant Los Angeles organization. This is how, he who shall not be named, started off in 1930s Germany! Never forget or we are doomed to repeat.
7
“The discretion has come back to us; it’s up to us to make decisions in the field,” a 15-year veteran in California said. “We’re trusted again.”
No you aren't. Not by the public you aren't. It's pretty clear who gets picked on: people of color or with non-European names. We must challenge, resist, and limit this abuse before it goes too far.
No you aren't. Not by the public you aren't. It's pretty clear who gets picked on: people of color or with non-European names. We must challenge, resist, and limit this abuse before it goes too far.
8
Only in tony Palo Alto -- NIMBY write large -- would someone claim that enforcement of the law is "abuse." Abusive zoning laws keep the riff-raff in EAST Palo Alto, you see.
Isn't it funny the illegals going to Canada are being arrested. How awful! I thought Canada was welcoming everyone.
KEY WORD in all of this... ILLEGAL!
There is a process. Follow it. It's call the LAW.
KEY WORD in all of this... ILLEGAL!
There is a process. Follow it. It's call the LAW.
7
When a few hundred Olympic Village condos in Vancouver went on sale, all but 1 (one) unit were bought by Asians keen on leaving Hong Kong before it went Communist ca. 1997, causing a huge scandal in Ottawa. Turns out with $200,000.00 in the bank a foreigner automatically became a Canadian citizen, sorta like qualifying to live on the Channel Island tax haven of Jersey.
3
I prefer giving the illegal aliens a path to citizenship, but I also understand that they are here illegally. If the government decides they need to be deported, however, it should be done humanely and thoughfully. If you grab and deport parents of children born here, what happens to those children? They are US citizens who deserve to be raised by their parents. Foster care? Loss of their heritage? Trauma at losing parents? A lawsuit when they come of age?
We need to be certain that our actions are morally and ethically correct. We need rules for the agents, not complete "discretion" in the field. There are now no rules; there is no plan. Just let the agents round up who they will and harass anyone they like (Everyone getting off a plane?).
Tough enforcement is fine, but a plan for enforcement is better. With this administration, there is no plan, just brute force.
We need to be certain that our actions are morally and ethically correct. We need rules for the agents, not complete "discretion" in the field. There are now no rules; there is no plan. Just let the agents round up who they will and harass anyone they like (Everyone getting off a plane?).
Tough enforcement is fine, but a plan for enforcement is better. With this administration, there is no plan, just brute force.
6
Bye, bye, America. I miss the promises you kept for so long. I will not support AmeriKa.
All my ancestors were undocumented, as they arrived here before Ellis Island - 1620, 1700, 1850. More recent family members came from a then-Eastern Bloc country -- with a Visa -- to do medical research with my father.
A great country trains and educates its newly arrived to its shores.. An inferior country gives border-control employees the unlimited power to deport any undocumented person.
As ''The Stanford Prison Experiment'' has shown, when you give people unlimited power, they will use it -- with impunity.
The statement at the end of the ''Stanford Prison Experiment'' movie stated that no participants suffered permanent harm. I cry foul. That flies in the face of psychological research. My husband is a psychologist.
Removing a massive number of undocumented immigrants will affect trade, because industries such as hospitality and agriculture, causing a negative effect on the U.S. economy.
We are sinking lower in global respect, because such policies do not represent a democracy but totalitarianism.
And this policy makes us less safe, not more.
All my ancestors were undocumented, as they arrived here before Ellis Island - 1620, 1700, 1850. More recent family members came from a then-Eastern Bloc country -- with a Visa -- to do medical research with my father.
A great country trains and educates its newly arrived to its shores.. An inferior country gives border-control employees the unlimited power to deport any undocumented person.
As ''The Stanford Prison Experiment'' has shown, when you give people unlimited power, they will use it -- with impunity.
The statement at the end of the ''Stanford Prison Experiment'' movie stated that no participants suffered permanent harm. I cry foul. That flies in the face of psychological research. My husband is a psychologist.
Removing a massive number of undocumented immigrants will affect trade, because industries such as hospitality and agriculture, causing a negative effect on the U.S. economy.
We are sinking lower in global respect, because such policies do not represent a democracy but totalitarianism.
And this policy makes us less safe, not more.
6
Not saying these ICE guys are a bunch of racist thugs, but when will they start raiding all the Irish bars and pubs between Boston and New York and checking the ID's of the bartenders and patrons? When will they start raiding all the Russian owned shops down in Brighton Beach and Coney Island? When will they start checking the i.d.'s in all the chinese owned businesses in NY and LA and points in between? Do you think they really ever will?
And when do you think they'll move out of the SCal cities and move up into the farm fields of the Central Valley? I'll enjoy hearing the whines then of all the farmers who voted for Trump, as their crops sit unpicked.
And when do you think they'll move out of the SCal cities and move up into the farm fields of the Central Valley? I'll enjoy hearing the whines then of all the farmers who voted for Trump, as their crops sit unpicked.
7
People who are fleeing countries made awful by a lack of rule of law now want the US to do away with the rule of law.
11
California's cities look more like Caracas every day, even $an Jose. Check the street crime epidemic in San Fran and (of course) Oakland.
2
Without commenting on whether Obama or Trump policies are correct: "people looking for work" should not be a criteria to identify those to arrest. While it may be tougher to find those not looking....they are probably not the right fit for the American Dream.
1
Those being arrested have outstanding warrants, and nothing to do with "work." In my county there are about 75,000 outstanding warrants, for all races.
2
So if an 'unauthorized immigrant' should not be held accountable for his crime should a carrier of an 'unauthorized firearm' similarly not be held accountable?
8
Of course that should be the case. But it will not happen
That would be a logical rational extension . . . Assuming one is starting from a rational place to begin with. Unfortunately, this is an strictly emotionally driven situation.
I guess everyone will have to start carrying their passports whenever they leave the house.
1
By demanding the ID of every passenger on the plane from SF, the border agents were attempting to make ordinary people complicit in this process of elimination, without which the agents could not identify a hunted and possibly terrified fellow human being. This must be a time for citizens to engage in deep self-searching about which situations we are able and willing to resist. It's a situation with profound moral implications, and history is watching us.
12
Those with experience in authoritarian regimes mention how citizen passive acceptance ultimately leads to complicity.
3
The Training of an ICE agent is no more than the basic 13 week POST police training with a five week Spanish Language immersion component. A downloadable "handbook" does not mention training in Constitutional Rights. Although job requirement information states a minimum of Bachelor's Degree is required, this is waived for prior law enforcement and military personnel. Hiring tens of thousands of new agents is reminiscent of California's Correctional Officer hiring frenzy in the early 1980s-1990s that resulted in hiring virtually anyone breathing and without a felony record.
ICE agents have been prevented from doing the job they swore an oath to uphold. It is long, long, long overdue to employ a very expensive governmental apparatus to do its statutory mission.
The reason we have the current mess is neither party has enforced longstanding immigration law with enough vigor and clarity of purpose to get compliance. In the meantime, thanks to the continuing lunacy of Birthright Citizenship, we have allowed a population with no legal right to be here to have US citizen kids at taxpayer expense and with taxpayer support. Our dereliction of duty has bred an entire scofflaw ecosystem of lawbreakers, apologists, supporters, exploiters.
Regaining control will and should take time. But a journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step. We have now taken that step.
The reason we have the current mess is neither party has enforced longstanding immigration law with enough vigor and clarity of purpose to get compliance. In the meantime, thanks to the continuing lunacy of Birthright Citizenship, we have allowed a population with no legal right to be here to have US citizen kids at taxpayer expense and with taxpayer support. Our dereliction of duty has bred an entire scofflaw ecosystem of lawbreakers, apologists, supporters, exploiters.
Regaining control will and should take time. But a journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step. We have now taken that step.
8
United States Civil Service Oath of Office:
“I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.” 5 U.S.C. §3331
First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America, 1791:
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
“I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.” 5 U.S.C. §3331
First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America, 1791:
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
1
Unless you are of Native American descent, you yourself have benefited from the "lunacy " of birthright citizenship at some point. We aren't an ethnographic state. Everyone's ancestors came from somewhere else.
1
To tell you the truth, I'm more afraid of the white guy in a BMW I see in my rear view mirror who's late for work in Encino and bearing down on me on the Ventura Freeway than I am some low rider whose passes me by on Whittier Blvd. in East Los Angeles.
So they're going after easy law abiding immigrants with families and spending less time on the dangerous ones?
ICE should start clearing Trump Hotels and see what's left of the kitchen, housekeeping and other departments.
17
His golf courses also.
2
So these Federal employees are doing the job they're paid to do?
And there's a problem with that?
And there's a problem with that?
5
To effectively do their job they should start checking farm laborers and construction sites. Then seriously fine the companies that hired them. However, that would not fly cause these guys likely are Trump supporters.
1
A scary development, this new zeal amidst the ICE agentry. I'm reminded immediately of John McCain's recent comments on suppression of free media: that it's Step One for a dictatorship. If we had to pick among things that might count as Step Two, this would certainly seem to be an option.
5
I'm extremely disappointed to read the Times describing sanctuary cities as "liberal-leaning cities that have vowed to protect immigrants from deportation..."
In fact, most sanctuary cities - and there are over 130 of such cities and counties nationwide - are frequently motivated by factors other than "protecting" immigrants from deportation.
Those factors include ordinances and statues designed to:
- Avoid lawsuits arising from unlawful detention (violation of the 4th Amendment) when local officers are "recruited", and there have been several such,
- Preservation of limited public safety resources deemed better directed toward genuine crime and other public safety issues, and
- Maintenance and improvement of police/community relations threatened by any mandated "cooperation" by local law enforcement in concert with the "big foot" of federal government agencies operating under much looser rules of conduct.
Overall, sanctuary cities recognize that they're not protected by such legislation as USAPatriot from lawsuits, misallocation of resources and an angered citizenry to nearly the extent that federal agents are.
By and large, they're protecting themselves, not the immigrants in their midst.
In fact, most sanctuary cities - and there are over 130 of such cities and counties nationwide - are frequently motivated by factors other than "protecting" immigrants from deportation.
Those factors include ordinances and statues designed to:
- Avoid lawsuits arising from unlawful detention (violation of the 4th Amendment) when local officers are "recruited", and there have been several such,
- Preservation of limited public safety resources deemed better directed toward genuine crime and other public safety issues, and
- Maintenance and improvement of police/community relations threatened by any mandated "cooperation" by local law enforcement in concert with the "big foot" of federal government agencies operating under much looser rules of conduct.
Overall, sanctuary cities recognize that they're not protected by such legislation as USAPatriot from lawsuits, misallocation of resources and an angered citizenry to nearly the extent that federal agents are.
By and large, they're protecting themselves, not the immigrants in their midst.
3
As a Bernie voter, I think that non-citizens, especially those illegally in this country, should not have any rights, and should be removed whenever the opportunity presents itself. Also, there needs to be several new crimes associated with illegal immigrations to stop the revolving door of repeat violators.
9
What does being a "Bernie voter" have to do with this?
Time to clean house....=) surprisingly satisfying
2
So when will the nonviolent protests begin? When will entire airport gates of people sit in and be unmoved when some of their fellow citizens are detained for "papers"? Or clog the bus station? Or the city street? I feel like it will be soon, and it will be dramatic.
5
The simple fact is that open borders are unrealistic, and violators of Federal Statues should be prosecuted. If you willingly undermine your own rule of law, for absolutely no logical reason at all (i.e. doing so is empirically good for the country, doing so is empirically superior to the alternative of enforcing the law), you do yourself harm in the process. Sanctuary cities do not have the authority to defy Federal Statute, and should be punished for attempting to do so. Immigration laws exist for very good reasons. We are not talking about brand new concepts. We are not talking about laws that are specifically targeted, in their statutory language and intent, towards particular races or ethnicities. We are talking about basic immigration laws that are reasonable and exist in literally every single country on the planet. If you can't follow such basic laws and adhere to the hierarchy of legal order, you don't deserve public schools funding, for example. You don't deserve Medicare/Medicaid funding. You don't deserve any federal funding, at all, because there is no guarantee said federal funding is going entirely to US citizens or legal immigrants.
4
Shortly after the attacks on 9/11 I noticed some security guards acting like they were in charge of behavior and attitude. Nobody authorized them to act this way, not by law anyway, but they took it upon themselves since so many people went along with this.
In Santa Barbara there were business owners I had known before 9/11 who advised me not speak against the war in Iraq as I might be seen as unpatriotic by others.
And now there's an anti-immigrant movement here that's in power.
I stopped buying from businesses that blindly supported the wars, and I'll boycott any business that supports the Trump administration and the racist attacks on people here legally, and illegally.
The immigrants we're seeing are mostly Central Americans and they're here partly because the US has destabilized their countries and subjected them to draconian measures thru the war on drugs, an entrenchment of corporate rule, plus the US has gone so far as to assassinate or authorize the killing of democratic leaders.
This slide into corruption has taken decades. Reagan sent billions of dollars in arms to oppose governments that fought back, and at the same time the US pulled the rug out from under its own citizens. Trump continues this policy.
The US is a short distance away from losing any semblance of democracy, if it hasn't lost it all already, and the attacks on immigrants are just a sideshow. These are direct attacks on democracy, on ourselves. War is the next step in finalizing power.
In Santa Barbara there were business owners I had known before 9/11 who advised me not speak against the war in Iraq as I might be seen as unpatriotic by others.
And now there's an anti-immigrant movement here that's in power.
I stopped buying from businesses that blindly supported the wars, and I'll boycott any business that supports the Trump administration and the racist attacks on people here legally, and illegally.
The immigrants we're seeing are mostly Central Americans and they're here partly because the US has destabilized their countries and subjected them to draconian measures thru the war on drugs, an entrenchment of corporate rule, plus the US has gone so far as to assassinate or authorize the killing of democratic leaders.
This slide into corruption has taken decades. Reagan sent billions of dollars in arms to oppose governments that fought back, and at the same time the US pulled the rug out from under its own citizens. Trump continues this policy.
The US is a short distance away from losing any semblance of democracy, if it hasn't lost it all already, and the attacks on immigrants are just a sideshow. These are direct attacks on democracy, on ourselves. War is the next step in finalizing power.
2
Seems like these agents are behaving more like children taking on the role of "cops" in a game of "cops and robbers", as opposed to law enforcement professionals with the requisite level of maturity, respect, and empathy for fellow human beings. ICE agents are fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, sons, and daughters. I hope they realize that those they seem to relish chasing are also fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, sons, and daughters.
This is not to say that immigration laws should be ignored. But the situation is one that calls for seriousness and solemnity, not something resembling a hunting outing with the guys.
This is not to say that immigration laws should be ignored. But the situation is one that calls for seriousness and solemnity, not something resembling a hunting outing with the guys.
3
Is ICE going to raid the fields when the workers, most likely undocumented immigrants, are picking our food?
4
I am brown color immigrant and US Citizen.
Who would I complain, if I get deported or harassed by this so called deportation force, just because I don't carry my passport with me?
Jeff Sessions?
Who would I complain, if I get deported or harassed by this so called deportation force, just because I don't carry my passport with me?
Jeff Sessions?
3
As a somewhat masculine looking women, who has occasionally been called "sir" (which, in the past, amused me). I now carry my drivers license, passport and birth certificate; just in case I am randomly stopped by the authorities. Or questioned, becuase, you know, maybe using a restroom outside my home. Or, I suppose I could wear more make-up and dress more like a women like the president would want. Hmmm choices, choices. I love this new freedom.
3
How do these " law enforcement" people live with themselves ????
Just like most so called "law enforcement " agencies they get off on power trip .
Biggest threat to public's freedoms is local and federal so called " law enforcement "
Just like most so called "law enforcement " agencies they get off on power trip .
Biggest threat to public's freedoms is local and federal so called " law enforcement "
1
Undocumented workers are a crucial part of the US economy. Yet the U.S. needs to uphold its laws. As someone here pointed out, this isn't the fault of ICE or Trump, it's the fault of lawmakers who haven't fixed our broken immigration system.
Trump is right to uphold the law -- he has a duty to -- and those who enforce those laws (ICE, DHS and others) are right to have improved morale because they can finally uphold their sworn oath of duty. What we DO need, however, is a system that allows a certain time period, perhaps 1 year, for anyone here illegally to apply for citizenship. Those who have jobs and pay their taxes and have not broken any laws should be granted fast-track citizenship. Those who come here, commit crimes or are sitting in prison at taxpayers' expense should be deported.
A sovereign nation has a duty to uphold its laws and secure its borders to the mutual benefit (economic, security) of its citizens. America has let our elected officials ignore our laws too long. It's time to do something about it.
Trump is right to uphold the law -- he has a duty to -- and those who enforce those laws (ICE, DHS and others) are right to have improved morale because they can finally uphold their sworn oath of duty. What we DO need, however, is a system that allows a certain time period, perhaps 1 year, for anyone here illegally to apply for citizenship. Those who have jobs and pay their taxes and have not broken any laws should be granted fast-track citizenship. Those who come here, commit crimes or are sitting in prison at taxpayers' expense should be deported.
A sovereign nation has a duty to uphold its laws and secure its borders to the mutual benefit (economic, security) of its citizens. America has let our elected officials ignore our laws too long. It's time to do something about it.
1
Let's see what happens after the officers who get their newfound freedom get a little slap happy with their deportees......
Hiding in the "land of the free" - the new America.
Hiding in the "land of the free" - the new America.
2
There are only 10 seats on the bus. So leave the seats empty until you have someone who meets your criteria. I get it.
excellent- enforce the law!!
5
I am a horrible person, so I care overwhelmingly about those things that impact me and not that much about other things such as the current debate about illegal immigrants.
I have never found illegal immigrants to be a source of concern, but I understand why some people feel strongly about them.
I am very concerned about the following:
1.- The fact that ICE agents forced every person on a domestic flight to show ID before being allowed to disembark. I do not understand why this is not illegal and hasn't been contested. (I understand that it would be legal on an international flight).
2.- The fact that the democratic party has not taken a position on illegal immigrants that most people can support. Although the administration position is too close to a police state for my liking, it seems to have the support of a majority of the country. The democrats need to develop a position that most people can support.
I have never found illegal immigrants to be a source of concern, but I understand why some people feel strongly about them.
I am very concerned about the following:
1.- The fact that ICE agents forced every person on a domestic flight to show ID before being allowed to disembark. I do not understand why this is not illegal and hasn't been contested. (I understand that it would be legal on an international flight).
2.- The fact that the democratic party has not taken a position on illegal immigrants that most people can support. Although the administration position is too close to a police state for my liking, it seems to have the support of a majority of the country. The democrats need to develop a position that most people can support.
2
How is that some of the major hate crimes such as the recent one in Kansas is not being covered by a liberal paper such as the Times... when it's being covered extensively by media outside of the US.
1
It's about time.
If US citizens face law enforcement every day, there is no reason the illegals should be exempt.
Border security starts where illegals live and not just at the physical border.
It's time to empower these agents for whom hard working tax payers are contributing.
Removing shackles off a law enforcement person- you talk about perversion of justice.
Time to enforce all of our laws.
And time to move past identity politics.
If US citizens face law enforcement every day, there is no reason the illegals should be exempt.
Border security starts where illegals live and not just at the physical border.
It's time to empower these agents for whom hard working tax payers are contributing.
Removing shackles off a law enforcement person- you talk about perversion of justice.
Time to enforce all of our laws.
And time to move past identity politics.
4
Sounds like Malfoy and his gang under Umbridge!
1
The short-sightedness of workers deporting illegals is unnerving. It sounds like they are more interested in having a product at the end of a work day than sorting through the people they detain to find who we actually don't want in our country. Many jobs don't have the benefit of having a product at the end of every work day. This is why we call "work", "work".
It's too bad we hire so many people with this "jock" mentality to work in this sector. When and why did our country start worshipping narcissism, sociopathy, psychopathy, deny that we were ever doing it, and continue to do so with no end in sight? More stuff that makes me embarrassed to be American.
It's too bad we hire so many people with this "jock" mentality to work in this sector. When and why did our country start worshipping narcissism, sociopathy, psychopathy, deny that we were ever doing it, and continue to do so with no end in sight? More stuff that makes me embarrassed to be American.
Detain and deport.
Once the bulk of illegals are gone we can go back to assuming that everyone is legal, hard-working and welcome.
Once the bulk of illegals are gone we can go back to assuming that everyone is legal, hard-working and welcome.
1
I suspect the new freedom these agents feel to indiscriminately round up woman, children, and decent people of all kinds struggling to survive and throw them into detention centers is a lot like how members of the Gestapo must have felt rounding up the Jews. A country without a soul is a country without a hope. Welcome to the brave new world of hate and hopelessness.
12
I don't understand how these people sleep at night.
5
The ICE agents quoted in this article struck me as being overly zealous, indiscriminately rounding up those posing no danger to society as quickly as those that do pose a danger. Reminds me of those movies and documentaries featuring zealous Gestapo agents rounding up Jews and others identified by the Nazis as undesirable. The optics on all this is haunting, bringing to mind the modus operandi of the fascist regimes the United States and its allies fought valiantly to wipe from the face of the earth in the 1940s.
8
There is reasonable discretion and then there is the assumption that one has been granted the status of judge and jury. Unconstitutional! Sad!
7
Law Enforcement does not interpret the law. That responsibility lies with powers much higher than field agents. If the President of the United States tells them their job is to focus solely on violent criminals and to leave everyone else alone, then that's their job. Saying things like "what part of illegal don't they understand?" makes them sound like power-hungry bouncers using the powerless as a canvass on which to prove their hyper-masculinity.
8
Mexicans don't get to dictate our immigration laws either. It's about time they found that out.
3
Good. I want our ICE agents "emboldened and empowered". Enough of political correctness and pandering to illegal aliens who have broken the laws of our country. This constant wailing by Democrats, liberals and progressives to protect criminals is disgusting. Deport every illegal alien back to their home countries. Build the wall. Protect American interests first.
15
Ah, freedom.... the freedom to be a thug....
I love the smell of cordite in the morning.....
Yeah, Republicans are living DOWN to my every expectation.
I love the smell of cordite in the morning.....
Yeah, Republicans are living DOWN to my every expectation.
11
WOW! All we have to say is WOW! America is acting like a country again and President Trump is acting like a president should act. Thank you, sir, for protecting America from the lawless. Everyone knows Democrats permitted this danger to the American people so they could get more votes. Its abominable... and its OVER. EVERY American should be happy about this. Those who aren't are still a little brainwashed by fake news.
12
No, he is not. Trump and Republicans are acting like Nazis. How can you defend rounding up innocent men, women and children for mass deportations? Where are the courts and lawyers making sure that basic rights are not violated.
No. Many Americans are appalled by this. Nazis and Fascists may be rejoicing but persecuting people for Muslim religion and now mass deportations including taking people out of hospitals and church shelters are the tactics of jackbooted thugs.
Romania may have a tradition of this, but it is absolutely anti-American. It is against the Constitution and all founding American principles. Civil rights are not being honored.
No. Many Americans are appalled by this. Nazis and Fascists may be rejoicing but persecuting people for Muslim religion and now mass deportations including taking people out of hospitals and church shelters are the tactics of jackbooted thugs.
Romania may have a tradition of this, but it is absolutely anti-American. It is against the Constitution and all founding American principles. Civil rights are not being honored.
3
What is so disturbing is that these agents are boldly professing their enjoyment at rounding up immigrants in what appears to be Gestapo-styled tactics. Boarding a domestic flight and screening everyone is un-American and should not be permitted to continue. Innocent people, immigrant or citizen, should not be treated without regard for their humanity. There is a pervasive lack of moral fiber apparent in these agents either as a result of training or upbringing. We rounded up the Japanese in WWII without regard to their citizenship or service to America. There needs to be a better way to target criminal immigrants than providing carte blanche to a bunch of bullies who get their kicks from pushing around people as we have seen with the current president.
13
To be fair they could only ask for the papers of people who look Hispanic (as the fugitive they were looking for was most likely one), but that would be racial profiling, and we can't have that - right? So to avoid lawsuits and "do the right thing", everyone must be asked. This is what the left wanted.
1
To truly be a facist, Trump needs a militia to do his bidding. I am seriously frightened that this is what ICE can become.
14
Imagine if a whole planeload of passengers decided to refuse to comply with the ICE demands. Then another planeload. What have we got to lose?
7
The litany of comments analogizing ICE with Nazi Germany only serve to underline the intellectual laziness and ahistorical ignorance of the commenters. Trump displayed the same fatuous, glib ignorance when he compared US Intelligence agencies to Nazi Germany. There is the potential for abuse and the necessity for strict oversight in any police force, but leaping to Nazi Germany analogies is simply weak and lazy.
80
Usually Godwin's Law applies.
But Godwin's Law works because the example of Nazi Germany is supposed to be unique, something that can never happen again because it was so extreme.
But what if the ICE folks are really acting like gestapo? In real life? Maybe we should pay attention?
Because that is what is so astounding in these reports--that they are happening in real time.
But Godwin's Law works because the example of Nazi Germany is supposed to be unique, something that can never happen again because it was so extreme.
But what if the ICE folks are really acting like gestapo? In real life? Maybe we should pay attention?
Because that is what is so astounding in these reports--that they are happening in real time.
6
I disagree. I appreciate your criticism that the facts are very different, and that people who leap to the analogy with Nazi's don't know their history books. But what you ignore is that the *real* analogy people are making is not that these are factually or historically similar. It's that ICE and Trump are taking extreme measures which have dangerous consequences for the targeted people, and, worse, their reasons that they tell the public for doing so are not based on truth. People are analogizing to the potential dangers of continuing on such path, the Holocaust being an extreme and terrible culmination that is possible if the path continues. The Holocaust was tragic and much worse: people faced certain execution. It was genocide. Deportation is not genocide. But, I think the point of some in making the analogy is that, though people will not face factory death camps when they head back to whatever country they're deported to, for many, there is a very cognizable risk of death, and soon. And the rhetoric around why families need to be deported immediately is based on alternative facts, not real ones.
6
Sorry, Jared. We do know what Nazi Germany is like, and if you were a reader of the New York Times, you will know there have been a number of commenters across the past year who are Holocaust survivors or the children of Holocaust survivors who have pointed out the similarities between Trump and Hitler. I have a Ph.D. in history and know very well where the suppression of the media, the constant propaganda and fake news about a ranting leader, the persecution of people for their religion, and mass deportations lead.
This is reality, and it is happening in America now. Denialism will not work: this is the rise of Fascism in America thanks to Trump, Bannon with his white supremacists, and the generals.
This is reality, and it is happening in America now. Denialism will not work: this is the rise of Fascism in America thanks to Trump, Bannon with his white supremacists, and the generals.
7
And now we're demonizing border cops for being cops. Apparently, no OTHER argument is having enough impact to deter current intentions.
Almost all cops believe in the centrality of the law in maintaining civilization, don't like to see the law violated and have chosen a profession that is dedicated to upholding law. I can think of a LOT of people, many of them on Wall Street, whom I would demonize first BEFORE demonizing cops.
Almost all cops believe in the centrality of the law in maintaining civilization, don't like to see the law violated and have chosen a profession that is dedicated to upholding law. I can think of a LOT of people, many of them on Wall Street, whom I would demonize first BEFORE demonizing cops.
8
From refusing to use the word, "illegal", to accusing immigration officers of being Nazis for just doing their jobs, the evidence is clear that Obama's legacy is to have defined immigration deviancy down.
Poor Trump is like the new law and order sheriff arriving in a Wild West town.
Poor Trump is like the new law and order sheriff arriving in a Wild West town.
1
Luettgen. As noted before, I have every confidence that if Trump personally shot all kinds of people on Fifth Avenue, you would be out there defending him.
Suppression of the media - check.
An inner circle of white supremacists and yes people - check.
Attacking civil servants and anyone who opposes him - check.
Firing anyone who doesn't do his will - check.
Persecuting people for their religion (Muslim) - check.
Mass deportations - check
Trump is the new Hitler, and Trump supporters are the new collaborators. After WWII, the question was about the "good Germans" and how evil could flourish. Now we know. It is all the apologists who will justify absolutely anything there Dear Leader advocates.
First they came for the Socialists ...
Suppression of the media - check.
An inner circle of white supremacists and yes people - check.
Attacking civil servants and anyone who opposes him - check.
Firing anyone who doesn't do his will - check.
Persecuting people for their religion (Muslim) - check.
Mass deportations - check
Trump is the new Hitler, and Trump supporters are the new collaborators. After WWII, the question was about the "good Germans" and how evil could flourish. Now we know. It is all the apologists who will justify absolutely anything there Dear Leader advocates.
First they came for the Socialists ...
4
How do these ICE agents and police determine who is an undocumented ,illegal immigrant? People are pulled aside and questioned for no other reason than them looking and sounding different from white Americans. At times, even American citizens are pulled over and being asked their ID if they happen to be non white. I am not exaggerating but I hope those instances are few but it is still happening in this country and that is very sad. The following incident happened just few days ago and published in The Baltimore Sun yesterday ( Feb 25, 2017 ) An Indian woman, naturalized American citizen was walking in her neighborhood where she walks all the time and she was stopped by a Bel Air Police Department officer. When she responded to his question about what she was doing – that she was walking ,the police officer started questioning her even more aggressively and told her she was not free to leave because she was "under criminal investigation" and demanded her ID. and was wondering why she did not have any identification with her. That is ridiculous, this lady is 47 years old , has been living there, in Bel Air for more than 30 years, she even went to school there and she is a U.S. citizen. It looks like all non white citizens of this country should walk around all the time with their US passports or driver license, otherwise chances are that they will get interrogated by police and even get arrested.
15
If we didn't have a problem with illegals in the first place this wouldn't be an issue.
Get the illegals out, and we can go back to assuming most everyone here is legal.
Get the illegals out, and we can go back to assuming most everyone here is legal.
1
As a native New Yorker of some seven decades and liberal activist from the Sixties I have remounted the counterinsurgency platform with friends and colleagues from the past. I never thought this threat of a totalitarian nation would rear its ugly head after the demise of Tricky Dicky Nixon. But it has. And like the purge against Nixon we must once again organize and vanquish this current demagogue who occupies illegitimately the Oval Office. Out with this darn spot.
As a citizen of a world capital sanctuary city and state, we welcome all those who flee in fear from Red States and run the risk of being rounded up for deportation. Come here to where the Statue of Liberty reside. We will shelter you from the Fascistic Storm Trooper SS Bannon and Trump who think the Constitution of rule of Law don't apply. They are the enemy of the people and they need to be removed from the White House.
With our new leaders of the DNC Tom Perez and Keith Ellison we will take to the streets and fight the power every day until they are defeated. From now on this citizen will look the other way when I think someone might be here illegally. If I see something, I will not say something. I've had enough of these Gestapo tactics. I and many others will never forget when these gangster Nazi came for the Jews. Never again.
We look upon the foreigners who live among us here in NYC as modern Anne Frank's. We will protect them.
DD
Manhattan
As a citizen of a world capital sanctuary city and state, we welcome all those who flee in fear from Red States and run the risk of being rounded up for deportation. Come here to where the Statue of Liberty reside. We will shelter you from the Fascistic Storm Trooper SS Bannon and Trump who think the Constitution of rule of Law don't apply. They are the enemy of the people and they need to be removed from the White House.
With our new leaders of the DNC Tom Perez and Keith Ellison we will take to the streets and fight the power every day until they are defeated. From now on this citizen will look the other way when I think someone might be here illegally. If I see something, I will not say something. I've had enough of these Gestapo tactics. I and many others will never forget when these gangster Nazi came for the Jews. Never again.
We look upon the foreigners who live among us here in NYC as modern Anne Frank's. We will protect them.
DD
Manhattan
19
Its about time that we enforce US immigration laws. This disregard for US laws is maddening. You have an illegal alien writing (and I doubt it was her own writing) an Op-Ed article in the NY Times while hold up in a Church. If ICE went in and dragged her out by the hair word would spread among the illegal alien community that it is time to get out of "Dodge City".
At the same time start jailing employers of illegal aliens and deport illegal alien parents who paid criminal gangs to smuggle their kids into the US and voila, self-deportation at very little cost. Paying 10 cents more for Orange juice and having to mow one's lawn is a small price to pay for restoration of our nation's immigration laws.
At the same time start jailing employers of illegal aliens and deport illegal alien parents who paid criminal gangs to smuggle their kids into the US and voila, self-deportation at very little cost. Paying 10 cents more for Orange juice and having to mow one's lawn is a small price to pay for restoration of our nation's immigration laws.
16
I would suggest that if you are looking for disregard of laws, you would search higher on the economic totem pole rather than single out the poorest and weakest victims of those crimes.
Note the proportion of people deported that are Latino. I suspect that even though they are only 50% of undocumented immigrants, they are 100% of the people targeted. In one town in California they were asking all customers going to a panederia for their documentation. It's a loathsome, sadistic and racist operation.
8
No one is "targeted." They have old warrants.
You remind me of the rumor-mongers in "The Monsters of Maple Street" episode on The Twilight Zone with Rod Serling, scaring themselves and those around them with childish fears of the bogeyman, etc.
You remind me of the rumor-mongers in "The Monsters of Maple Street" episode on The Twilight Zone with Rod Serling, scaring themselves and those around them with childish fears of the bogeyman, etc.
3
My father was a Jewish refugee from Nazi Germany. He taught me to be ready to flee at a moment's notice because when time comes, nobody will protect you.
Yes, my father, I am ready to go to Israel at a moment's notice. But until then I will protect refugees and hard working undocumented immigrants to the best of my abilities.
Yes, my father, I am ready to go to Israel at a moment's notice. But until then I will protect refugees and hard working undocumented immigrants to the best of my abilities.
276
And how many refugees from Syria has Israel taken in. These are there neighbors where is the outrage among American Jews. From a people that have suffered so badly as refugees there silence on this point demonstrates the hypocrisy of the poster. Stop lecturing your neighbors and take the same position across the board and demand that Israel take the same action that you demand that American take.
4
Well if you go to Israel you'd be going to a country with strong security and strong borders (and yes even their very own border WALL!) Why do you find it so threatening that the United States is enforcing its sovereignty in a manner similar to Israel?
5
So, in other words, you claim your loyalty to Israel, while don't care if millions break laws of your country (not being refugees, btw), and you're okay with that. Amazingly twisted arguments.
4
What will happen when all the "Illegal" immigrants or aliens are gone? Where will ICE and Homerland Security turn their spleen upon next? Are they keeping, Caligula like, lists of the people who dislike or who wrote about them in a displeasing manner? Will they become Trump's secret, or invisible Praetorian Guard? If they are allowed to misrepresent themselves as members of ordinary uniformed civil police, what is to stop them from misrepresenting their activities; what and who will prevent them from a campaign of disappearing their enemies? The Times and others have written about many people detained to death by the various agencies of Obama's and Bush's anti immigrant police forces. If things were that bad during a Democratic administration, what is to prevent these special "purification police" of the current administration from making extra Constitutional activities standard operating procedure? When the Latino and the Islamic victims are gone, will HS and ICE be peacefully disbanded? Will the forces using such techniques simply "fade away" . . . ?
8
This is one reason why private sector prisons are a good idea. When the demand declines, they can be wound down. If, instead, the government put up more Federal prisons with unionized/civil service employees, the demand could decline but we could never rightsize the prison system.
What happens to their homes or apartments when these persons have been seized? What becomes of their belongings? Their clothing, furniture, their photographs, the food in the refrigerator? Who feeds the cat?
Some immigrants may have been in a legitimate jam, some may have come based on an ill thought-out dream. But whatever the reasons for seeking out the United States, many have been here for years longer than the last administration. As time passes one can be lulled into a certain complacency. I’m sure many of these immigrants think of themselves as U.S. citizens, whether they are or not technically. Surely, in order to demonstrate the magnanimity and graciousness of this country, those who have been here previous to Mr. Trump’s ascension could be grandfathered in and allowed some sort of permanent status. Going forward, should it be Mr. Trump’s prerogative, disallow further entry without following a strict protocol. As many suggest, harsher sanctions on those who employ non-citizens may be a deterrent to further illegal immigration. However, disallowing people to work often contributes to an underground economy with its own enforcement mechanisms (gangs).
I can hardly believe we are back to putting people ‘on the reservation.’ For those who cannot see the inherent cruelty in stripping one of one’s dignity, freedom, home and possessions, I’m afraid I’m left speechless. A lack of empathy, in my book, is a psychological disorder setting you apart from the rest of humanity.
Some immigrants may have been in a legitimate jam, some may have come based on an ill thought-out dream. But whatever the reasons for seeking out the United States, many have been here for years longer than the last administration. As time passes one can be lulled into a certain complacency. I’m sure many of these immigrants think of themselves as U.S. citizens, whether they are or not technically. Surely, in order to demonstrate the magnanimity and graciousness of this country, those who have been here previous to Mr. Trump’s ascension could be grandfathered in and allowed some sort of permanent status. Going forward, should it be Mr. Trump’s prerogative, disallow further entry without following a strict protocol. As many suggest, harsher sanctions on those who employ non-citizens may be a deterrent to further illegal immigration. However, disallowing people to work often contributes to an underground economy with its own enforcement mechanisms (gangs).
I can hardly believe we are back to putting people ‘on the reservation.’ For those who cannot see the inherent cruelty in stripping one of one’s dignity, freedom, home and possessions, I’m afraid I’m left speechless. A lack of empathy, in my book, is a psychological disorder setting you apart from the rest of humanity.
11
Their possessions? What happens to a criminal's possessions when that person is jailed. If you choose to commit any crime, you put everything at risk to some degree. And yes, if someone is here illegally, he/she is, by definition, a criminal.
1
chicago860,
Typically, one has access to 'make arrangements' before sentencing - disposition and guardianship of minor children, child support arrangements, have a family member clean out your apartment and store belongings, wind down a business, etc.
I may be a bleeding-heart liberal; however you seem to see things only in black and white. I assure you, life is much more messy, complicated and nuanced than you would like to assume. And every 'criminal' infraction does not assume the same weight.
Typically, one has access to 'make arrangements' before sentencing - disposition and guardianship of minor children, child support arrangements, have a family member clean out your apartment and store belongings, wind down a business, etc.
I may be a bleeding-heart liberal; however you seem to see things only in black and white. I assure you, life is much more messy, complicated and nuanced than you would like to assume. And every 'criminal' infraction does not assume the same weight.
You're either here legally, or not. You can't be a little bit pregnant.......
6
So the beginnings of a Gestapo is underway. Im very disturbed by the incident at JFK involving a domestic flight from San Francisco. The article I saw said ICE was looking for a particular individual, after deplaning many passengers said the inspection was wholesale with no discrimination exhibited by ICE as to gender, race, or age, casting doubt on their one individual claim.
Please NYT examine this deeply, by what right can they hold an entire plane load of people hostage demanding "papers" on a flight by an American carrier between 2 US airports? Their sister agency, TSA, examined everyone's credentials at SFO prior to boarding. All ICE had to do was on arrival board the plane and ask the crew where so and so is sitting, if it was the person of interest remove him/her and leave everyone else alone.
The $64 question is can a US citizen refuse to comply with the "papers" demand by border control? I've dealt with these people on the private aviation side and they are for the most part heavy handed and obnoxious, but that was returning from overseas, I don't see what authority they have in the JFK incident. Sad.....
Please NYT examine this deeply, by what right can they hold an entire plane load of people hostage demanding "papers" on a flight by an American carrier between 2 US airports? Their sister agency, TSA, examined everyone's credentials at SFO prior to boarding. All ICE had to do was on arrival board the plane and ask the crew where so and so is sitting, if it was the person of interest remove him/her and leave everyone else alone.
The $64 question is can a US citizen refuse to comply with the "papers" demand by border control? I've dealt with these people on the private aviation side and they are for the most part heavy handed and obnoxious, but that was returning from overseas, I don't see what authority they have in the JFK incident. Sad.....
5
The illegals are the ones who are responsible for this.
Without an illegal alien problem, these tactics would not be needed.
Without an illegal alien problem, these tactics would not be needed.
The cognitive dissonance of the NYT having this article side by side with Kristof's editorial "Trump Voters, Your Savior Is Betraying You" is rather stunning. Which is? Is Trump keeping his campaign promises or not? The NYT seems to want to argue for both sides at the same time.
3
Too bad ICE was not here when those dirty, stinking land grabbing killers AKA the Pilgrims land at Plymouth Rock. America would truly be great again.
9
When are they going to start raids of apartment complexes and subdivisions under construction in Texas? Thousands of illegals toiling away, stealing jobs. Makes you wonder where Trump is because they're still there plain as day.
3
After 5 weeks you thought Trump would be chasing illegals around Houston? Heck, he's not Greg Abbott!!
Why aren't the illegals employers being rounded up? That would at least make it fair.
12
Where is e-verify. It is the law, after all
In many cases, employers hiring illegal workers haven't broken any laws. All current law requires of an employer is that they get a copy of a Social Security card and a completed I-9. Illegal "immigrants" happily supply a forged Social Security card as good as yours and perjure themselves to complete an I-9. Employers hire illegal workers every day completely legally. The law is inadequate. We need mandatory eVerify with workplace audits of compliance.
2
Mexico has a stronger Immigration policy then the U. S. When migrants enter their southern border they are transported to the U.S. border. They are not allowed to stay in Mexico. The U.S. government is doing the correct thing by deporting illegals. Those that want illegals to stay, open a spare bedroom. I'd like my tax dollars going to the inner city instead.
8
Reality check the free for all comes to end time to get back reality . People need to understand in most other countrys this would never happen . Other countrys if you dont show proff you are employed your histroy in 30 days. United states needs to incourage people to ocme to united states who want to be aprt of the freedom insted we incourage losers an criminals
4
Several years ago Japan began to jail for 30 days those who showed up at the airport with expired visas, and the offenders were banned form Japan for FIVE years, including many foreign students. Problem stopped soon after.
4
Many of whom we elect to Congress
I wake up every morning grateful for President Trump...and not Hillary. I love immigrants...legal immigrants. If you're here illegally...You're Fired!
8
Can someone give me a rule book so I can understand which federal responsibilities should become state or local issues? I can't keep up. Is it maybe just as simple as whatever pleases the Confounder-in-Chief?
3
There is a document. Its called The Constitution.
Those responsibilities not specifically listed as belonging to the Federal Government fall to the States.
Those responsibilities not specifically listed as belonging to the Federal Government fall to the States.
2
The Electoral majority of Americans voted to fully enforce our immigration laws. They ignored the hard task of Comprehensive Immigration Reform in Congress, and have decided that direct action is their only recourse, and Donald Trump has promised to provide it.
They aren't wrong, I can sympathize, but it's going to be an unmitigated disaster for all of us. Much like his election, this is going to feel wonderful for about sixty minutes.
They aren't wrong, I can sympathize, but it's going to be an unmitigated disaster for all of us. Much like his election, this is going to feel wonderful for about sixty minutes.
On February 7th, a man with the name Muhammad was detained at a Florida airport for two hours and questioned extensively about his religion. The man is a USA born US Citizen, with no criminal record. His father? Muhammad Ali, the boxer.
"Shackles off" sounds okay, until the shackles are on you.
"Shackles off" sounds okay, until the shackles are on you.
6
“There are 10 seats on the bus, they go to the first 10 you grab,” Mr. Sandweg said.
Simple solution: get a bigger bus
Simple solution: get a bigger bus
1
The NYT has stated that there's no moral justification for deporting illegals. Wrong. Here is the moral justification:
- We have borders. We have immigration laws. It's our moral duty to defend our border and laws. We have the moral right to choose exactly who comes into our country.
- Hundreds of millions of people would love to immigrate to America. Millions of them are starving in Africa. Many of them have applied to legally immigrate here, and have waited for many years. We have a moral obligation to those people that others don't illegally cut in line in front of them.
- Most illegals are paid in cash and don't pay taxes, yet use our schools and emergency rooms, roads, and other services. The government has a moral obligation to its citizens to ensure they don't get ripped off.
- NAFTA has already gutted many of our low-skill jobs. llegals exacerbate that problem because they are an illegal oversupply in the low-skill labor pool.
- We have borders. We have immigration laws. It's our moral duty to defend our border and laws. We have the moral right to choose exactly who comes into our country.
- Hundreds of millions of people would love to immigrate to America. Millions of them are starving in Africa. Many of them have applied to legally immigrate here, and have waited for many years. We have a moral obligation to those people that others don't illegally cut in line in front of them.
- Most illegals are paid in cash and don't pay taxes, yet use our schools and emergency rooms, roads, and other services. The government has a moral obligation to its citizens to ensure they don't get ripped off.
- NAFTA has already gutted many of our low-skill jobs. llegals exacerbate that problem because they are an illegal oversupply in the low-skill labor pool.
8
"To avoid distressing families and children, the agents prefer to apprehend people outside their homes..." This will not avoid distressing families. This avoids distressing ICE agents, where they would have to be confronted with the inhumanity of what they are doing: pulling mothers, who have been here since they themselves were children, away from their own children and families. No, I think they should have to witness and see just what this does to families, every time. Maybe, just maybe, they can then grow some hearts.
A huge amount of immigrants arrived as refugees from their own war-torn, poverty stricken countries, or while running from their own murderous governments. People do not leave their homes to come undocumented to other countries when all is well. This administration piles cruelty upon cruelty. Beyond sad.
A huge amount of immigrants arrived as refugees from their own war-torn, poverty stricken countries, or while running from their own murderous governments. People do not leave their homes to come undocumented to other countries when all is well. This administration piles cruelty upon cruelty. Beyond sad.
5
Fancy that! Law enforcement agents ALLOWED to enforce the law! What will they think of next?
6
Police departments all over the United States are struggling to positively connect with the citizens they serve. To have government employed bounty hunting ICE agents identify themselves as police officers is both offensive and potentially harmful to real police officers. While I agree with the idea we should be deporting violent criminals who are here illegally I am not sure that the gestapo like tactics ICE is using is the way to go about it.
11
Illegal immigrants are not "citizens" of this country. They all know they broke the law to get here, 11 million of them.
They cost the state of California 25 billion in services. However the agriculture industry need them so the only humane way for them to be here is with a green card as a guest worker so at least we can keep track of who is in our country. This country has been taken advantage of for long enough.The enforcement is long overdue.
They cost the state of California 25 billion in services. However the agriculture industry need them so the only humane way for them to be here is with a green card as a guest worker so at least we can keep track of who is in our country. This country has been taken advantage of for long enough.The enforcement is long overdue.
3
Key term: Citizens.
2
American citizens and people who are here LEGALLY are being caught up in ICE's dragnets and that is not acceptable. People who are here illegally should be detained and possibly deported but people who are here legally as well as American citizens should not be harassed and detained because they look like they might be illegals.
The article has agents discussing the best time to go after suspects. It is early in the morning, as the suspects leave their family, to go to their job. These agents see the laws as a way to disrupt and separate hard working families. Under President Obama the same laws were used to disrupt and deport violent felons.
8
Making America Great Again, by brute force, jackboots, and showing your papers for no reason. "Great" in Trumpworld is a fake slogan, by a fake leader of a fake Party of Lincoln or even Reagan.
8
Federal law enforcement agents actually enforcing the law, what a quaint idea! We have laws for everything in this country, from taxes to occupational safety to dog waste removal. Immigration is not, and should not be, any different. Of course, the vast majority of illegal immigrants are not criminals or rapists, but that doesn't mean that they are without impact. There is a social cost for any human being in the United States, whether legal or illegal, that is borne largely by the institutions of society. Schools in California are packed, sometimes with 99% non-native English speakers, public healthcare programs are overwhelmed, and heaven help you if you get into an accident with an undocumented (and therefore uninsured) motorist. These costs are largely born by an American middle class already struggling with their own high cost of living, while much of the increased economic productivity from immigrants goes to the 1% of people who soak up nearly all of the new wealth in our economy.
By the way, the commenters comparing ICE agents to Nazis or brown shirts are doing a great disservice to the millions killed by that regime. ICE isn't sending these people to Auschwitz for being Jewish, they're sending them to their country of origin for actual violation of U.S. law. And liberals accuse Trump of over-the-top rhetoric.
By the way, the commenters comparing ICE agents to Nazis or brown shirts are doing a great disservice to the millions killed by that regime. ICE isn't sending these people to Auschwitz for being Jewish, they're sending them to their country of origin for actual violation of U.S. law. And liberals accuse Trump of over-the-top rhetoric.
9
MAybe you're right: In fact, they're more like the agents of the GOP idiots under A. M. Palmer and J.E. Hoover and what was then the BI,(before it became the FBI). The US was not always outdone by Germany -recall our tereatment of the Japanese in WWII. While they never went to death camps-they were-exactly as were the Jews of Germeny-forced to sell their personal real property at immense losses to Ameroicans or just have the property sold at aution for pennies on the dollar. Even when, in the Reagan adminsitration, America finally admitted we had overreacted and behaved in an illegal and unconstitutional and beastly manner-similar to what went on in Germany- the Japanese were never made "whole" again as one might have expected.
You're right, Thompson. While Germany was really very good at getting people to remember Black and Brown shirts, leather jackets and SS or death's head insignia as cultural signifiers of evil; the USA does it's evil under the guise of ordinary civilian dress, and then we don't talk about. Or we make it look like space aliens did it, as in the X-Files, while making a bundle in Hollywood.
You're right, Thompson. While Germany was really very good at getting people to remember Black and Brown shirts, leather jackets and SS or death's head insignia as cultural signifiers of evil; the USA does it's evil under the guise of ordinary civilian dress, and then we don't talk about. Or we make it look like space aliens did it, as in the X-Files, while making a bundle in Hollywood.
1
Trump continues his divide and destroy presidency. Not much will be left of this country if he keeps getting his (or Bannon's) way.
4
None of Trump's advisors or top Republicans have come up with a solution for our agriculture labor needs. From picking lettuce in California, sugarcane in Florida, to apples in Washington state, the amazing low prices Americas enjoy at the fruit and vegetable counters is directly a result of cheap, undocumented labor.
Then there are the restaurant, hotel, healthcare and construction sectors that rely so heavily on undocumented labor to fill jobs that pay below minimum wage: dishwashing, ditch digging, demolition, chicken slaughtering, eldercare, etc. The preponderance of undocumented labor throughout the US economy is so well hidden behind the huge profits of the industries that exploit these immigrants.
However the saddest is to imagine millions in the USA living in constant fear of being rounded up, imprisoned and then deported. It resembles all to much the 1930s in Germany, 1940s occupied France, Belgium, Netherlands.
Let us not forget that less than 25% of all eligible voters voted for Trump - the lowest mandate of any modern day president in recent history.
Then there are the restaurant, hotel, healthcare and construction sectors that rely so heavily on undocumented labor to fill jobs that pay below minimum wage: dishwashing, ditch digging, demolition, chicken slaughtering, eldercare, etc. The preponderance of undocumented labor throughout the US economy is so well hidden behind the huge profits of the industries that exploit these immigrants.
However the saddest is to imagine millions in the USA living in constant fear of being rounded up, imprisoned and then deported. It resembles all to much the 1930s in Germany, 1940s occupied France, Belgium, Netherlands.
Let us not forget that less than 25% of all eligible voters voted for Trump - the lowest mandate of any modern day president in recent history.
4
Let's all stand up straight and proud and proclaim: "we must have illegal workers to survive". Is that what you are arguing?
How about slavery, child labor? Why should any industry exist in this country if they can only get desperate, illegal workers to do the work?
How about slavery, child labor? Why should any industry exist in this country if they can only get desperate, illegal workers to do the work?
2
Imagrants were welcomed, ushered in- quietly to take advantage by both business and government: business for cheap labor/higher profits for the owners, and both parties of government at different times.
Imagrants were the tool of "Union busting". Corporate raiders(for simplification Wall Street, private equitiy and some small business owners)) figured out how to peel the cream off the top, by using imagrant workers to tell American workers they were over paid and if they didn't like it they would hire someone for less or move their businesses outside of the country, follow cheap labor wherever it was. And hence the manipulation of the terms " productivity and globalization." The rue is it is explotation of all our values. The cheap clothing food, gardeners, housekeepers, elderly care, the list is long, undercut our basic values to be a fair, compassionate, moral leading country. We've been so happy to take advantage of the cheap stuff, we've become victims of our own shorted greed. A country that is now lead around by the nose by organizations that have deliberately dummied down there own people in the name of God.
What tragic hypocrisy. If our current leadership thinks they can put the dogs back into their cages, now that they have unleashed them, best think again, for if they try to tame or control the beast, it will come back to devour them.
We've taken a long step backword in shaming the millions of people who died for this Democracy.
Imagrants were the tool of "Union busting". Corporate raiders(for simplification Wall Street, private equitiy and some small business owners)) figured out how to peel the cream off the top, by using imagrant workers to tell American workers they were over paid and if they didn't like it they would hire someone for less or move their businesses outside of the country, follow cheap labor wherever it was. And hence the manipulation of the terms " productivity and globalization." The rue is it is explotation of all our values. The cheap clothing food, gardeners, housekeepers, elderly care, the list is long, undercut our basic values to be a fair, compassionate, moral leading country. We've been so happy to take advantage of the cheap stuff, we've become victims of our own shorted greed. A country that is now lead around by the nose by organizations that have deliberately dummied down there own people in the name of God.
What tragic hypocrisy. If our current leadership thinks they can put the dogs back into their cages, now that they have unleashed them, best think again, for if they try to tame or control the beast, it will come back to devour them.
We've taken a long step backword in shaming the millions of people who died for this Democracy.
5
Obviously our nation is made up of immigrants. To generalize, stating all Muslims are bad, is like saying all Christians are killers (referring to the Inquisition.) To ban immigrants is clearly racist, and sounds more like the Third Reich. Let's hope ICE people are not a bunch of overzealous thugs.
2
At last, the return of law and order.
8
Some of these customs and Border Protection/ICE people have no common sense or understanding of the law. They and we would be better off if they were trained better.
Here is one example: on February 7, Mohammad Ali Jr., the US born and US passport-carrying son of Mohammad "I am the greatest" Ali, arrived at Fort Lauderdale airport with his mother, after a trip to Jamaica.
These bozos detained Mrs. Ali until she produced a photo of herself with her late husband, and then she was released. (That photo must have been autographed or something right? Could have been photoshopped.)
The son had no such photo, so he was detained for hours and was asked such questions as "where did you get your name from" and whether he is a Muslim, even though he showed his US passport.
That sounds like a group of supposed US government professionals acting like Nazis. Once he showed his passport and proved he was an American, they had no basis for holding him unless they had probable cause. That his name is Mohammad is not probable cause. That he is a Muslim is not only probable cause, but is discrimination on the basis of religion. Who do these morons think they are? Wearing a badge and a uniform does not make you God.
Here is one example: on February 7, Mohammad Ali Jr., the US born and US passport-carrying son of Mohammad "I am the greatest" Ali, arrived at Fort Lauderdale airport with his mother, after a trip to Jamaica.
These bozos detained Mrs. Ali until she produced a photo of herself with her late husband, and then she was released. (That photo must have been autographed or something right? Could have been photoshopped.)
The son had no such photo, so he was detained for hours and was asked such questions as "where did you get your name from" and whether he is a Muslim, even though he showed his US passport.
That sounds like a group of supposed US government professionals acting like Nazis. Once he showed his passport and proved he was an American, they had no basis for holding him unless they had probable cause. That his name is Mohammad is not probable cause. That he is a Muslim is not only probable cause, but is discrimination on the basis of religion. Who do these morons think they are? Wearing a badge and a uniform does not make you God.
15
I wish the editors of The New York Times would drop the "undocumented immigrants" fantasy. Illegal migrants is harsh, but at least it has some basis in reality.
7
Federal law actually states they are defined as "illegal aliens"; that is what they should be called by the press.
I never could have imagined anything so disgraceful taking place in this country.
This is not about keeping us safe, protecting jobs, or stopping terrorism. It's a racist play to part of his base and, as an American, I feel ashamed.
This is not about keeping us safe, protecting jobs, or stopping terrorism. It's a racist play to part of his base and, as an American, I feel ashamed.
4
The harsh and negative tone set by this administration, and the attitude of ICE agents, the police state tactics and raids, as well as the attempts to militarize the nation against refugees and immigrants sends a big chill down my back about our nation. This is the first time in 82 years I have felt this way. The Trump administration and the face it is presenting to the world is an affront to the best that is America.
2
In order to show initially how fair and without profile we are to be treated, all of us will be stopped. Then it happens: a good number of us will be screened, some of us will be arrested, and a portion of us imprisoned, deported, or killed. Then it's just kill.
That's just how it's done every 80 years in a fulfilled Trump/Bannon philosophy!
That's just how it's done every 80 years in a fulfilled Trump/Bannon philosophy!
3
Have a heart. Let them all stay. In fact, let anyone in the world come in and stay as long as they are needy. It's for the children! Have a heart. Also, we should give these poor people free health care and "free" college tuition too because Bernie said that was a good thing to do. Have a heart people!
Or...you can have a heart for the American citizens. You can't have a heart for both at the same time. You pick.
Or...you can have a heart for the American citizens. You can't have a heart for both at the same time. You pick.
3
I was a police officer for 32 years and a trade unionist for 28. Ideally, law enforcement should be dispassionate and conducted with sympathy for both victim and perpetrator. Especially for border patrol agents who are looking for people who were looking for work, it would be a mistake to identify too strongly with the boss. Trump is no friend of labor and that goes for the enforcers as well as the retched of the earth. Brothers and sisters - in your day to day duties remember that money is free to travel the globe in search of cheap labor while only people are illegal when looking for work.
279
"Brothers and sisters - in your day to day duties remember that money is free to travel the globe in search of cheap labor while only people are illegal when looking for work." Hear, hear! Well said, sir, well said.
Why is Trump no friend of Labor? He's supported by most of US labor unions (I mean rank and file, not corrupt bosses), because he is fighting against wage erosion that occurs when millions of illegals take the jobs that otherwise would be taken by American workers. And notion that everyone who comes here is just looking for work is very naive and inaccurate. There are plenty of drug and human traffickers, gang members, spies, etc, who go across undefended borders; even people "working" here peacefully are violating our labor laws and putting an undue strain on our municipal services, educational system, and infrastructure that the rest of us pay for.
1
Very wise words especially in light of the fact that Trump himself uses immigrant labour and Ivanka recently moved her shoe factory from Guangdong China to Ethiopia where labour is much cheaper. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3824617/Trump-factory-jobs-sent-...
1
This is what Republicans are talking about when they harp on endlessly about freedom.
Freedom to run your life with institutional protections for theirs.
Freedom to run your life with institutional protections for theirs.
This is an excellent story. Even if it doesn't get quite as many comments as more hot-button issues like trans-gender bathrooms, it highlights a more serious issue and one that President Trump would rather we didn't know about.....keep up the good work, and don't forget to fact-check every single speech (big and little) that he makes!
6
We area nation of laws and I believe the rule of law should be our guide. I wish I was smart enough to figure this out but I see it quite complicated. I think those criminal, rapists, etc should be identified, rounded up and sent back to where they came. I have hired Hispanics as day laborers for landscaping work at rental homes I once owned. No I never asked if they were here legally or illegally. It seems like half of those I picked up from those large labor pools(100-200 or so) could hardly speak a word of English but my gosh would they work. I would have to tell them to stop, come to in from the rain, etc. They were honest, more than hard-working, appreciative of the work and appeared God-fearing people. They lived in crowded apartments and, I'm told, sent most of the money home. IDK, can't we find a way to keep these people f they want to become citizens. I think of the American Dream. I think of my ancestors who came from a broken, impoverished Ireland looking for a chance and willing to do whatever to make a life. Then I look at those I have hired through the years.......looking for a chance....willing to work....strong family ties.......Send 11 million packing?
8
An Ann Arbor, Michigan resident, a Muslim Jordanian immigrant who has lived in the United States for 18 years, drove to Detroit for his bi-weekly proof of residency on Jan. 30, but instead of the usual routine check-in after which he could go home to his wife and four children who are U.S. citizens, he was detained. He is still detained and will have a hearing this week.
8
Since when do we trust soldiers and field agents to make policy? Their input is valuable, but they should not be the ones deciding who is targeted and deported. They felt "shackled" under Obama, but that administration managed to deport 2.4 million people (far more than any predecessors) in a targeted way that focusing on priority targets. There's an anecdote here about a raid that netted 161 illegals including 10 who had clean records. Would that raid have been any less successful (and fun) had the turned the ten lose and netted 151 true undesirables?
4
While there are red flags aplenty with the Trump administration and its half-reasoned tilt towards Nationalism, the fact remains that the question is now out there: "what does it mean to have a country?"
Until the Liberals and business sector are able to articulate effective competing answers, the one that the Nationalists give us will be the one that sets policy.
Until the Liberals and business sector are able to articulate effective competing answers, the one that the Nationalists give us will be the one that sets policy.
6
As more and more illegal immigrants begin to be arrested and deported, it will be interesting to see how Washington and big business react to their labor force being taken away. This country, as always, is literally built by these immigrants. I wonder if they will stand their ground when it takes a toll on their profits.
2
Trumps new policies have given the bullies practically carte blanche. No one who isn't WASP looking will be safe pretty soon.
Which is what Bannon wanted all along.
MAGA, guys.
Which is what Bannon wanted all along.
MAGA, guys.
4
Governor Piscopo will make Jersey tolerable again.
1
For those who still think Obama deported more than any other President: The word deportation doesn't mean the same thing under the Obama administration as it did before. Even Obama says this (Link below).
Interior enforcement basically collapsed under Obama. The entire scenario whereby he became the 'deporter in chief' was merely a means to lull US citizens into believing that he had a really tough enforcement program going so that he could slide his amnesty and immigration expansion in.
To quote CIS's Jessica Vaughn in 2014 (last link): 'Under Obama-administration policies, interior arrests have dropped 40 percent since 2011, when aggressive enforcement-suppression policies, euphemistically called “prosecutorial discretion,” were imposed. ICE is now releasing more illegal aliens than it is arresting. In 2013, ICE agents reported encountering more than 700,000 illegal aliens, but they took action against less than 200,000 of them, letting the rest get off without charges. Among the many illegal aliens ICE agents were told to ignore were 68,000 with criminal records...Whether illegal immigrants are technically removed, returned, expelled, excluded, or deported is of little interest to Americans, as long as their numbers are greatly reduced, and that isn’t happening any more.'
https://www.numbersusa.com/sites/default/files/public/assets/resources/f...
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/375938/voxs-deportation-myths-jess...
Interior enforcement basically collapsed under Obama. The entire scenario whereby he became the 'deporter in chief' was merely a means to lull US citizens into believing that he had a really tough enforcement program going so that he could slide his amnesty and immigration expansion in.
To quote CIS's Jessica Vaughn in 2014 (last link): 'Under Obama-administration policies, interior arrests have dropped 40 percent since 2011, when aggressive enforcement-suppression policies, euphemistically called “prosecutorial discretion,” were imposed. ICE is now releasing more illegal aliens than it is arresting. In 2013, ICE agents reported encountering more than 700,000 illegal aliens, but they took action against less than 200,000 of them, letting the rest get off without charges. Among the many illegal aliens ICE agents were told to ignore were 68,000 with criminal records...Whether illegal immigrants are technically removed, returned, expelled, excluded, or deported is of little interest to Americans, as long as their numbers are greatly reduced, and that isn’t happening any more.'
https://www.numbersusa.com/sites/default/files/public/assets/resources/f...
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/375938/voxs-deportation-myths-jess...
8
The time has come to enforce our laws. They are here illegally and must be deported according to our laws. Obama sought to obstruct our laws with unconstitutional acts and not enforcing the law. New sheriff in town. The illegals are going home to reunite with their compatriots in the lovely homeland. And we get our country back. A win, win, for all. The open border crowd might want to pay attention. Those days are over. The sanctuary cities will be dealt with and the illegals will be deported. In the United States citizens do not get by with breaking our law so why in the world should illegal aliens?
9
It is people who say "remarks about their jobs becoming “fun.” It was fun playing army, except I was 6 years old. Oy.
1
Maybe the immigration advocates will learn a lesson from this experience. Some condemned the Obama policy of discretionary policing, strong border enforcement, and promotion of bipartisan immigration reform. One advocate from La Raza labelled Obama the "Deporter in Chief." Now these immigration supporters can see the reality of life under the opposition party. In hindsight the Obama policy doesn't seem so bad after all. Maybe the advocates should keep that in mind next time around.
7
In hindsight the sheer numbers deported by Obama remain the same, i.e., impressive.
Give human beings power, especially human beings who choose professions where they get a badge and a gun, and they can quickly become cold-hearted predators. After all, it's only the surface restraints of our "civilized" society which keep us from the tribe on tribe violence which predominated during most of our existence on this planet.
So what's this Darwin thing about "evolution"?
So what's this Darwin thing about "evolution"?
8
They were already cold-hearted (I prefer pathological). Now they "can have fun"). Let's issue guns to ALL immigrants, if we are going to kick out everyone who isn't an immigrant.
The only issue with this is EVERYONE in this country is an IMMIGRANT, except for Native Americans.
The only issue with this is EVERYONE in this country is an IMMIGRANT, except for Native Americans.
1
US of A was founded by illegal immigrants coming in from Europe, slaughtering and taking land away from Native Americans. Only if Native Americans had a 'Trump' among them.. all of you people would be somewhere in Europe fighting for a civilised life.
Let's talk about Illegal Immigrants then, eh?
Let's talk about Illegal Immigrants then, eh?
Why is a Federal agency allowed to detain U.S. citizens and force them to show identification without a warrant or just cause. This is a small step toward police of any kind being given permission to harass and intimidate anyone the individual agent or cop wants to harass.
Why is Congress rolling over and doing nothing? Do the Congressional leaders enjoy the knowledge that U.S. citizens are being harassed?
Why is Congress rolling over and doing nothing? Do the Congressional leaders enjoy the knowledge that U.S. citizens are being harassed?
22
In many locales it may be illegal not to have valid identification, since you're likely trying to escape a bench warrant. When I got my 1st job in Florida at age 19 in 1969, I needed special work papers I did not need up north. Why?
3
Fascism, in the good ol' USA, is on the rise.
Now-here is a little proof, for those who have eyes to see, and ears to hear!
Now-here is a little proof, for those who have eyes to see, and ears to hear!
Since reporters actually spoke with ICE employees, it would be interesting to know what their new guidelines actually say, and how they compare to the old rules point by point. There are some ambiguous hints of that in the story, which I suppose works if all we want to do is confirm our biases.
6
If ICE asks me for my ID, I won't give it to them. I am not legally required to carry an ID, the last I heard.
25
This is so.
Info about this is available from the ACLU. I think it is on the first page of their site.
No one in the USA is required to produce ID simply on the request of some cop. Of course, failure to follow such a request could lead to trouble when that cop decides that you are "uncooperative".
Welcome to the NEW USA folks!
Info about this is available from the ACLU. I think it is on the first page of their site.
No one in the USA is required to produce ID simply on the request of some cop. Of course, failure to follow such a request could lead to trouble when that cop decides that you are "uncooperative".
Welcome to the NEW USA folks!
1
No matter. Suspicion is enough to have you detained in their office until your true identity is ascertained. You get 1 phone call.
I am not legally required to carry an ID, the last I heard.
===============
Well as long as you don't drive a car.
Would you provide an ID for an FBI agent? A US marshall?
===============
Well as long as you don't drive a car.
Would you provide an ID for an FBI agent? A US marshall?
1
Will Europeans and those from Canada who are here illegally be included in these raids?
9
One only need ask a Canadian to return home, eh, and he will.
2
Yes.
I'll be waiting to see how many illegal Irish workers get picked up in Boston.
1
One over excited agent that by accident or intention, harms or kills someone-it will be an international disaster.
9
Regarding “Agents Discover Freedom on Deportations Under Trump,” in which the article states “that the shift – and the new enthusiasm that has come with it – seems to have encouraged pro-Trump political comments and banter…like remarks about their jobs becoming “fun.””
We have lost our collective humanity when we delight in inhumanity.
We have lost our collective humanity when we delight in inhumanity.
8
Despite ICE reassurances, NOTHING about this shift in priorities makes me feel safer. Insisting that these agents spend their time looking for violent criminals is the correct and sensible policy.
Now we have to consider what we will do when asked to present our "papers" when exiting a domestic flight?
Now we have to consider what we will do when asked to present our "papers" when exiting a domestic flight?
Trump's sledgehammer approach will not turn out well.
9
Since the agents are only serving warrants for those who are in contempt of court, and fugitives, it's the OPPOSITE of a "sledgehammer."
During the Iraq war, the major cause for alienation of the Iraqi population against the American presence was the indiscriminate search and seizure. Nighttime raids when parents were humiliated and sometimes killed, shock and awe battering of doors, large scale detentions all contributed to this.
It is no surprise that ICE - drawn heavily from retired military are raring to go at being given the chance to employ the same tactics at home.
Doesn't it make more sense - while being less disruptive to the economy and kinder - to offer work permits to those who are here and have not been convicted of serious offenses? Whether it ultimately leads to citizenship can be decided later. There could even be provisions making it mandatory for such visa holders to leave the country once a year to retain contact with their homelands and not having the ability to apply for citizenship.
This brings an impoverished underclass out of the shadows. If that were to happen, there would be less opposition to simultaneously tightening the borders and yes actually building the wall?
There are class divides and there are certain jobs nobody wants to do - beyond first generation immigrants - which are still crucial to the economy. Honesty in recognizing this and having a humane solution is the only real way forward.
What we are doing today is sad and damaging to the national psyche.
It is no surprise that ICE - drawn heavily from retired military are raring to go at being given the chance to employ the same tactics at home.
Doesn't it make more sense - while being less disruptive to the economy and kinder - to offer work permits to those who are here and have not been convicted of serious offenses? Whether it ultimately leads to citizenship can be decided later. There could even be provisions making it mandatory for such visa holders to leave the country once a year to retain contact with their homelands and not having the ability to apply for citizenship.
This brings an impoverished underclass out of the shadows. If that were to happen, there would be less opposition to simultaneously tightening the borders and yes actually building the wall?
There are class divides and there are certain jobs nobody wants to do - beyond first generation immigrants - which are still crucial to the economy. Honesty in recognizing this and having a humane solution is the only real way forward.
What we are doing today is sad and damaging to the national psyche.
8
Totally agree ! This approach is what most people who have a degree if intelligence would prefer.
However, we are now being "ruled" by a bunch whose collective IQ resides somewhat South of the collective 97 IQ of America, so do NOT expect any approach that requires an IQ of OVER 97, anytime soon !
However, we are now being "ruled" by a bunch whose collective IQ resides somewhat South of the collective 97 IQ of America, so do NOT expect any approach that requires an IQ of OVER 97, anytime soon !
During the Iraq war, the major cause for alienation of the Iraqi population against the American presence was the indiscriminate search and seizure.
========================
No, the major cause for alienation was we were keeping the Shiite majority from settling scores with the Sunni minority
========================
No, the major cause for alienation was we were keeping the Shiite majority from settling scores with the Sunni minority
1
Illegal immigrants who work without authorization in the United States are felons. 18 USC Sec. 1015 states “Whoever knowingly makes any false statement or claim that he is, or at any time has been, a citizen or national of the United States, with the intent to obtain on behalf of himself, or any other person, any Federal or State benefit or service, or to engage unlawfully in employment in the United States” shall be fined or imprisoned not more than five years. The same section applies to anyone who presents false documentation, such as a fake Social Security number. Congress made posing as a citizens a felony offense because it undermine the nation’s ability to provide work for its citizens, control its borders and regulate immigration.
10
Your argument is wrong because immigrants, legal or illegal, don't pose as American citizens, unless they swear into becoming a citizen.
1
Does this include those employers who knowingly hired them, because there is not much talk about that part. It's like going after drug users while allowing the dealers to go free.
1
Will Trump also deport those from Europe and Canada who have overstayed Visa or who are here illegally. Immigration Agents must not only search farms and kitchens, they must search corporate offices. The United States has a list of people who are here illegally from all countries.
10
I have a Dutch friend who has lived and worked in the US for most of his adult life yet never has become a citizen. It is unusual for him to pass through immigration at JFK without a question from an agent as to why he has not become a naturalized American. He has never dared replied, "None of your business."
3
I find it morally offensive when advocates for ignoring immigration laws ask what will happen without undocumented workers to exploit? who will work on farms for low pay? Who will work in gardens, hotels and restaurants for low pay, or do construction work for low pay, or other work for low pay? They frequently leave out the low pay part, and they ignore the decline in pay and employment US citizens who compete in the labor market suffer. We also hear that the undocumented frequently pay Social Security taxes and they help the system because they cannot collect benefits.
All of the above arguments from those who don't want enforcement of immigration laws immorally want an underclass of people to exploit, so we pay less for goods and services. They also want to horribly exploit unauthorized immigrants by abandoning them when they are too old or too broken to work anymore by taking Social Security taxes from them but never give them the benefits they paid for.
All of the above arguments from those who don't want enforcement of immigration laws immorally want an underclass of people to exploit, so we pay less for goods and services. They also want to horribly exploit unauthorized immigrants by abandoning them when they are too old or too broken to work anymore by taking Social Security taxes from them but never give them the benefits they paid for.
10
Misuse of our resources, to our detriment, not our benefit. Keeping the population in fear=control.
3
Many people (like myself) who work with or know immigrants socially understand that our immigration laws are unfair, antiquated, and desperately need to be reformed. The GOP has blatantly refused to do this. It can take many years to get all the way through the immigration process, and it costs so much money, and these people are vulnerable to deportation the whole time.
I am horrified that ICE agents think it's "fun" to round up people who don't have their papers in order. This fills me with disgust for them. I hope neighbors will be ready to film as soon as ICE arrives; those little surveillance cameras are not expensive.
I notice that our immigration laws are applied in a very discriminatory way--Irish and Eastern European people don't get any flack. I'll bet they still won't.
And I also notice that all those unemployed Trump voters are not coming in from the counties to take the immigrants' jobs, the REAL jobs that need to be done. I'd be in favor of going out and rounding them up, to work at the REAL jobs that exist in our economy. I've had enough of them holding out for some fantasy job that hasn't existed since 1970,
We need to do everything we can to pressure lawmakers--REPUBLICANS--to reform our immigration system into something usable. This needs to be the hammer (or one of them) that we use whack some sense into these clowns.
Meanwhile, we must resist.
I am horrified that ICE agents think it's "fun" to round up people who don't have their papers in order. This fills me with disgust for them. I hope neighbors will be ready to film as soon as ICE arrives; those little surveillance cameras are not expensive.
I notice that our immigration laws are applied in a very discriminatory way--Irish and Eastern European people don't get any flack. I'll bet they still won't.
And I also notice that all those unemployed Trump voters are not coming in from the counties to take the immigrants' jobs, the REAL jobs that need to be done. I'd be in favor of going out and rounding them up, to work at the REAL jobs that exist in our economy. I've had enough of them holding out for some fantasy job that hasn't existed since 1970,
We need to do everything we can to pressure lawmakers--REPUBLICANS--to reform our immigration system into something usable. This needs to be the hammer (or one of them) that we use whack some sense into these clowns.
Meanwhile, we must resist.
8
If customs agents thought a specific person with a deportation order might be on the SF>NY plane, then presumably they knew the sex of the person. No need to harass 100% of the passengers; 50% would have sufficed for any rational action. But then, that's what happens in a police state.
5
If the spineless politicians, of the last 30 years, had been enforcing our immigration statutes, we wouldn't need such drastic action. As the old oil filter commercial used to say: "you can pay me noe, or pay me later."
10
The “Take Care Clause” of the Constitution tasks presidents to take care that laws are faithfully executed. The law Donald Trump is taking care to enforce is the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act, which President Bill Clinton signed into law in 1996. This act, which passed with board bipartisan support in both houses, calls for the deportation of foreign nationals unlawfully present in the United States.
3
How many employers of undocumented immigrants have been fined or arrested lately? I haven't heard of any. All those farmers in California must be aware their employees lack documentation. This administration is going after defenseless immigrants while letting those who make money exploiting them go unscathed.
16
When illegals migrated to America, they decided if they could sneak into the country they would be "home free" with no consequences... well they were wrong...and now they see that there are consequences for coming here illegally...even if they have been here decades. They have no right to be here if they came here illegally...if we are a nation of laws, every law that is broken weakens our nation, until finally we will no more be a nation to be respected and admired...we are at that point now partly because of all the illegals not respecting our laws, and partly because of weak presidents that chose not to enforce the laws...I am glad at last we have a strong president that is trying to change that for the better...
7
Just because it's the law and congress failed to pass legislation to address this year's ago is a problem. The fact they endorsed Trump is abominable, I wish them no success in rounding up families. No love for ICE here in NYC, a real microcosm of what America is all about. Shame on ICE and it's members.
4
I guess the Trump administration is keeping us safe from all those housekeepers, restaurant workers, gardeners, house painters, field workers, babysitters and nannies. When the businesses and farms that rely on these people find themselves unable to fill their positions, maybe there will be a pushback. Or perhaps, all the rust belt people who can't find work can fill these jobs. These jobs have always been there but Americans no longer want below minimum wage jobs with no benefits.
5
White slave owner to abolishonist: we cant end slavery they're just working the jobs no American wants to work, our economy will collapse.
The fact is no American CAN work many of these jobs and provide a living for their families, because illegal immigrants have eroded the value of these jobs by accepting lower wages, and having no argument for raises.
They are considered a disposible resource by the elitists that hire them. these same elitists are applauding the leftists attempting to keep the status quo, by defending undocumented workers.
The bottom line is we need to pay more for agricultural commodities and services to guarantee these workers, regardless of race or national origin, are making enough to survive.
when somebody makes The statement "they're just working the jobs no american wants to work" highlights the fact that they believe a migrant worker is somehow less human than an american. Disgusting !
The fact is no American CAN work many of these jobs and provide a living for their families, because illegal immigrants have eroded the value of these jobs by accepting lower wages, and having no argument for raises.
They are considered a disposible resource by the elitists that hire them. these same elitists are applauding the leftists attempting to keep the status quo, by defending undocumented workers.
The bottom line is we need to pay more for agricultural commodities and services to guarantee these workers, regardless of race or national origin, are making enough to survive.
when somebody makes The statement "they're just working the jobs no american wants to work" highlights the fact that they believe a migrant worker is somehow less human than an american. Disgusting !
There should be a hot line number to call so ordinary citizens can denounce suspected ilegal aliens to the police. That will save employers a lot of money because they can report their off the books workers the day before payday and keep the illegal’s wages for themselves.
The United States is a nation governed by the rule of law. Our immigration law has been violated for decades and more recently placed somewhat on the back burner with only selective enforcement. It is about time that the law is enforced as it is written. If you don't like the law, have Congress change it instead of selectively enforcing it.
Nothing is shameful about letting aliens live illegally in the United States.
Nothing is shameful about letting aliens live illegally in the United States.
Looking forward to the day they haul off trump in cuffs.
6
My neighbors banged on my door this morning, when I opened it they were sobbing and shaking and begging my wife and I to take their two toddler daughters and hide them so they would not be taken away and sent to back to El Salvador.
We know they are legal citizens and tried our best to calm them, assuring them that they were safe. But admittedly, my wife and I are not entirely confident. They might be safe today but tomorrow a switch in Washington could get flipped and they would be gone.
These are two of the sweetest, hard working women that I've ever know. Both sisters, they share the responsibility for two young girls (4 & 5 y/o), the older having entered the States with her mother when she was barely 1, the second ready to be born. The husband of one mother has been earning more money to come here as well while the sister’s husband was murdered in his taxi less than a year after she came to the US. She couldn’t even afford to see him, much less to have a funeral. During this time, the neighbors came together to make food dishes for them, wash/repair their POS car, take turns watching the girls, etc; to ease their time of grief. These are wonderful people with hardships put upon them simply because of geography.
I’m disgusted by our current system and frightened for these women/girls. My wife and I agreed we would take the girls if necessary but are we supposed to hide them in our attic until the next administration???
American Holocaust: Phase 1
We know they are legal citizens and tried our best to calm them, assuring them that they were safe. But admittedly, my wife and I are not entirely confident. They might be safe today but tomorrow a switch in Washington could get flipped and they would be gone.
These are two of the sweetest, hard working women that I've ever know. Both sisters, they share the responsibility for two young girls (4 & 5 y/o), the older having entered the States with her mother when she was barely 1, the second ready to be born. The husband of one mother has been earning more money to come here as well while the sister’s husband was murdered in his taxi less than a year after she came to the US. She couldn’t even afford to see him, much less to have a funeral. During this time, the neighbors came together to make food dishes for them, wash/repair their POS car, take turns watching the girls, etc; to ease their time of grief. These are wonderful people with hardships put upon them simply because of geography.
I’m disgusted by our current system and frightened for these women/girls. My wife and I agreed we would take the girls if necessary but are we supposed to hide them in our attic until the next administration???
American Holocaust: Phase 1
5
Outstanding. Our brave law enforcement officers at ICE have been kneecapped for far too long.
What use are our laws and courts if we don't enforce them? We might as be living in the medieval ages. Enforce the law!
What use are our laws and courts if we don't enforce them? We might as be living in the medieval ages. Enforce the law!
OK, Sunday morning. So far this week, ICE has detained or arrested a Salvadoran woman with a brain tumor and no criminal record, Muhammad Ali's son, and now French scholar Henry Rousso. Somebody please explain to me how detaining or arresting any of these people serves the interest of protecting the US from "bad hombres"? Is the goal just to arrest or detain anyone who is not a US-born WASP, because that sure appears to be what's happening.
Again this administration's policies depend on whom you ask and when. Just last week,, this is how Fox news reported Sean Spicer's messageon the new immigration policy:
"On illegal immigration, Spicer says deportations must be pragmatic and focus first on getting people who are a threat to public safety out of the country."
Now we get "unshackled"agents going so far as to pull in bystanders who look like they might be illegal (wonder how that bit of profiling works?) And as your story notes, there are only so many facilities available to hold and process subjects, which means truly bad actors are bound to be squeezed out.
Is it any wonder people don't trust this White House?
"On illegal immigration, Spicer says deportations must be pragmatic and focus first on getting people who are a threat to public safety out of the country."
Now we get "unshackled"agents going so far as to pull in bystanders who look like they might be illegal (wonder how that bit of profiling works?) And as your story notes, there are only so many facilities available to hold and process subjects, which means truly bad actors are bound to be squeezed out.
Is it any wonder people don't trust this White House?
2
Although this article paints a very broad and slightly one-sided view of potential overzealousness on the part of ICE authorities. It does point out that these ICE individuals are following the law as it is currently written.
However, I think the media should investigate and reveal to the public what the statistics are of ICE pursuing illegal aliens of European, Asian, African, etc. lineage.
There are other types of illegals currently residing in the United States not just those of Latin descent.
I believe that once these numbers are revealed it will demonstrate and validate how the current administration is racially motivated to removing a specific class from this country and that may give the public (those constituents who so strongly support) a moment of pause.
Because once the supposed "bad hombres" are removed one must ask them-self who's next?
However, I think the media should investigate and reveal to the public what the statistics are of ICE pursuing illegal aliens of European, Asian, African, etc. lineage.
There are other types of illegals currently residing in the United States not just those of Latin descent.
I believe that once these numbers are revealed it will demonstrate and validate how the current administration is racially motivated to removing a specific class from this country and that may give the public (those constituents who so strongly support) a moment of pause.
Because once the supposed "bad hombres" are removed one must ask them-self who's next?
4
If only it were so simple! Just enforce the law! As the editorial board makes eminently clear in its excellent piece this morning, the issue is far more complex.
The most zealous ICE agents seem to think this is some kind of rodeo. There are no notches to be put on belts here, no victories, no righteous self-congratulating to be done. We.already know the consequences of such human dragnets masked as patriotic acts. It"s shocking to see how many of our neighbors are such willing collaborators. We should remember well the final line of Niemoller's frighteningly realistic post WW Ii poem: "and then they came for me . . . ."
The most zealous ICE agents seem to think this is some kind of rodeo. There are no notches to be put on belts here, no victories, no righteous self-congratulating to be done. We.already know the consequences of such human dragnets masked as patriotic acts. It"s shocking to see how many of our neighbors are such willing collaborators. We should remember well the final line of Niemoller's frighteningly realistic post WW Ii poem: "and then they came for me . . . ."
3
The word is ILLEGAL.
Stop using euphemisms.
Stop using euphemisms.
5
You are allowed to migrate to any country in the world illegally provided that you have a good excuse, asylum is an example. So, ILLEGAL is incorrect until the immigrant has their day in court.
This attitude is like saying that battlefield rules of engagement are bogus because the make the grunt's job harder. At least on the battlefield the grunt is in actual danger. Where's the danger in rounding up women and children, pulling sick people from hospital beds?
This tactic is nothing more than state sponsored terrorism designed to terrify anyone in this country who is not white.
This tactic is nothing more than state sponsored terrorism designed to terrify anyone in this country who is not white.
4
We have a good vetting system for immigrants. Trump is using immigration as a springboard to assemble a military force in the United States to arrest anyone and everyone who is declared a enemy of the state. This is part of his and Bannons plan for chaos, realignment and a concentration of power. Trumps attack on the media, our allies and our institutions all point to one conclusion: The consolidation of power to the president.
Immigration is a smokescreen for controlling us all. He will have a private army that answers only to Trump. Loyalty to Trump will determined who is part of the private army, and only the most loyal will be hired. Those applying for the new ICE and customs jobs will not be hired if they vote Democrat. The new hires will be vetted.
Immigration is a smokescreen for controlling us all. He will have a private army that answers only to Trump. Loyalty to Trump will determined who is part of the private army, and only the most loyal will be hired. Those applying for the new ICE and customs jobs will not be hired if they vote Democrat. The new hires will be vetted.
2
"Trusted" by whom? Any official organization that gives even the *appearance* of arrest powers tip-toeing around the edges of the protections of the 4th Amendment hardly merits trust.
Worst is the masquerading as legitimate local police officers, clearly designed to intimidate. Don't we have enough problems with police/community relations as it is? What would be so hard about shouting "Immigration!" through the door instead of "Police!"?
Two local police officers in my community with whom I've recently spoken are quite bitter about the prospect of being conscripted into immigration enforcement duty while trying to improve community relations otherwise. It hasn't happened yet, but they feel they can see it coming and don't want any part of it. They'll do their duty of course, but they believe they really do have better things to do with their limited resources.
"Round-ups" are a feature of authoritarianism.
Worst is the masquerading as legitimate local police officers, clearly designed to intimidate. Don't we have enough problems with police/community relations as it is? What would be so hard about shouting "Immigration!" through the door instead of "Police!"?
Two local police officers in my community with whom I've recently spoken are quite bitter about the prospect of being conscripted into immigration enforcement duty while trying to improve community relations otherwise. It hasn't happened yet, but they feel they can see it coming and don't want any part of it. They'll do their duty of course, but they believe they really do have better things to do with their limited resources.
"Round-ups" are a feature of authoritarianism.
2
What criteria are they using nowadays? Are they looking for, arresting and deporting any illegal alien they can find, or is there some list of priorities. Certainly felons and gang members should come first, followed by anyone who has deportation orders or other court actions.
I kept waiting to see something about the agents' priorities in the article and couldn't find it. Did I miss something?
I kept waiting to see something about the agents' priorities in the article and couldn't find it. Did I miss something?
1
Does anyone else feel the hostility of ICE agents upon re-entering the U.S.? Is this purposeful intimidation? I've never felt a 'tude like this upon entering other countries -- even Cuba. Our ICE agents strike me as a group of hotheads on a hair-trigger, set to go off at the slightest opportunity. It's time to re-educate these people about courtesy -- and to remind them who is paying their salaries.
3
America needs to stop being a dumping ground for the problems of the wealthy Mexican elite who don't want to deal with their own population.
The wealthy Mexican elite prefer to let their problems go to the USA illegally and that way they don't have to spend one single dime to improve the job situation in their own country as well as their economy.
Meanwhile the US is left with providing social benefits for these individuals, dealing with the crimes they commit, and also losing at least $20 BILLION dollars a year when the illegal take the money they earn and SEND IT BACK TO MEXICO.
The United States just can't afford to be everyone's wealthy uncle anymore picking up the tab for everyone. Let the wealthy elite in Mexico solve their own problems.
And by deporting their problems back to Mexico we are forcing them to finally man-up, grow-up and solve their own employment and economic and social issues in their country.
And, finally, Mexico needs to stop the flow of illegal drugs into the US. It's destroying our youth and costing us a fortune in lost lives, lost wages and the astronomical cost of drug treatment.
Now, let those from all over the world who want to emigrate do so legally. Let them go through process, follow all the paperwork and do it the right way. I have no quarrel with someone who comes to this country who wants to make a better life for themselves and their family. And, I can sympathize with those who try to enter the US illegally.
The wealthy Mexican elite prefer to let their problems go to the USA illegally and that way they don't have to spend one single dime to improve the job situation in their own country as well as their economy.
Meanwhile the US is left with providing social benefits for these individuals, dealing with the crimes they commit, and also losing at least $20 BILLION dollars a year when the illegal take the money they earn and SEND IT BACK TO MEXICO.
The United States just can't afford to be everyone's wealthy uncle anymore picking up the tab for everyone. Let the wealthy elite in Mexico solve their own problems.
And by deporting their problems back to Mexico we are forcing them to finally man-up, grow-up and solve their own employment and economic and social issues in their country.
And, finally, Mexico needs to stop the flow of illegal drugs into the US. It's destroying our youth and costing us a fortune in lost lives, lost wages and the astronomical cost of drug treatment.
Now, let those from all over the world who want to emigrate do so legally. Let them go through process, follow all the paperwork and do it the right way. I have no quarrel with someone who comes to this country who wants to make a better life for themselves and their family. And, I can sympathize with those who try to enter the US illegally.
3
I do not place any blame on those who have entered this country illegally for this mess. We have indirectly invited them to our country by allowing them to work, drive, and use our social services. The US government and US Businesses are to blame for this problem, not the illegals.
From a rough economic point of view, illegal immigration is great for business. Labor is a commodity that follows the laws of supply and demand.
I've worked in construction and manufacturing my entire career. The labor force in the construction industry is 90% Latino. I've worked with excellent people from all over the world and don't believe for a second that skin color has any impact on a man/women's ability or work ethic.
However, this country needs to make a decision as to who we would like to employ. Who is more entitled to a job? An illegal or a working class American? The business owners in this country will ALWAYS choose the cheapest guy available. It's up to our gov. to make sure we are protecting jobs for our working class and not pitting them against the lowest common denominator.
The reality is that we have entire African American communities where the unemployment rate is 60%. These are Americans that have been left behind by liberal and conservative agendas for generations. Jobs that working class Americans used to take have been replaced by immigrants. Who is more deserving of a job in this country? I'll let you folks decide!
From a rough economic point of view, illegal immigration is great for business. Labor is a commodity that follows the laws of supply and demand.
I've worked in construction and manufacturing my entire career. The labor force in the construction industry is 90% Latino. I've worked with excellent people from all over the world and don't believe for a second that skin color has any impact on a man/women's ability or work ethic.
However, this country needs to make a decision as to who we would like to employ. Who is more entitled to a job? An illegal or a working class American? The business owners in this country will ALWAYS choose the cheapest guy available. It's up to our gov. to make sure we are protecting jobs for our working class and not pitting them against the lowest common denominator.
The reality is that we have entire African American communities where the unemployment rate is 60%. These are Americans that have been left behind by liberal and conservative agendas for generations. Jobs that working class Americans used to take have been replaced by immigrants. Who is more deserving of a job in this country? I'll let you folks decide!
3
It will be interesting when the overzealous agents and agency starts getting sued for arrests and detainment of persons who are not illegal immigrants. The bill of rights no longer seems to apply to ICE.
43
You presume that will even happen in the first place. And if it does, it still won't affect their power and authority to remove undocumented and illegal immigrants. The bill of rights protects US citizens, not people who snuck into our country without regard for our Federal laws.
3
Breaking a law to arrest other law-breakers is a time-honored investigative technique by law enforcement agencies. Repatriate all illegal criminals.
This is the "bill of wrongs".
2
The whole problem with the undocumented immigrant is the fault of our congress who refused to do anything about undocumented immigration since the Reagan years. Their cowardly non action stemmed from their inability to compromise. So, now we have a police state. I'm ashamed to say I am a United States citizen.
56
I agree. Having lived, 64, through Vietnam, Civil Rights Movement, and all the rest, I finally am ashamed.
There is no logical connection between a police state and the enforcement of immigration laws. None at all. You don't live in fear of the dozens of officers patrolling your streets below. You don't have a curfew to abide by. You don't live in a police state.
1
Why have they refused to do anything about undocumented immigrants? Well, between the former Trump pick for Labor Secretary Pudzer who hired an illegal immigrant as a housekeeper and all the other rich people and corporations that in order to be able to pay reduced wages, higher illegals for their farms and businesses, the ones that are decrying undocumented immigrants are the ones that are actually hiring them and be most affected by new laws.
This behavior is actually the behavior that should be of serious concerns to Americans. I spent six years in the military, and I learned a lot about human nature during that time, and it boils down to this: there are some people who are suited for positions of authority and some people who are absolutely not. Those who are not are often drawn, for psychological reasons to complicated to describe here, to work in positions where they can exert their personal brand of control and authority with impunity. What prevents many of these folks, those in ICE, corrections, law enforcement, etc., from behaving in outright unacceptable manners is the fact that there is a mystique, or more accurately, a facade of controlled professionalism around them that serves to regulate their behaviors. That facade is eroding--rapidly--and what we're seeing is what happens when a society doesn't psychologically screen and train applicants fully. The culture of law enforcement is not a productive or healthy one as it exists today, and the deregulation (clinically) we see here will become more frequent and increasingly ugly. As the need for more ICE and law enforcement agents increases, the quality of those applicants will degrade. I fear that what we'll end up with is a Stanford Prison Experiment sort of free-for-all that we can't call off after six days.
609
This is a key point. To this I would add that those who are inclined to abuse their authority are also attracted to situations where that can do it to the disenfranchised, those who lack the ability to effectively complain. Immigrants, who lack the vote and sho come from marginalized communities, as well as the poor and minorities are a happy hunting ground for these personalities.
They are much more circumspect around white middle class Americans - people they know might have the influence to complain effectively. As a result, middle class whites are often incredulous of the abuses immigrants, foreigners, the poor and minorities experience as commonplace.
They are much more circumspect around white middle class Americans - people they know might have the influence to complain effectively. As a result, middle class whites are often incredulous of the abuses immigrants, foreigners, the poor and minorities experience as commonplace.
1
Agreed! It's already effected many police departments and this will only exacerbate the issue. My fear is that, in addition to non-violent civil rights violations, there will be violence and people will be harmed.
Very good analysis.
Amazing seeing people submit to unwarranted stops by ICE officials while getting off a plane. I guess that pesky thing called the Constitution and the 4th Amendment does not apply to these agents.
36
4th Amendment protections don't apply to non-citizens. A legal citizen won't be deported. We need to enforce our immigration laws and get those who are here illegally out of our country.
3
I call it cooperating with law enforcement. I have nothing to hide.
3
You are aware that for transcontinental flights, you must fill out documents prior to landing establishing your citizenship, why you left the country, and how long you were out of the country, correct? Not to mention the fact that you must then show your passport at Customs to verify your own identity. Warrants don't apply for people entering the country. If they did, you would never have anyone stopped at the border to have their car searched randomly. Your logic is faulty.
1
This ushers in a shameful part of the U.S. history. It is inhuman and disgraceful.
63
Move them to VT. Perhaps on Bernie's nice property?
1
Why don't we just put them in places here? We could call them, uh, I know, Concentration Camps.
Says who?
Imagine that - actually enforcing the law
18
I understand the sentiment you expressed but this is a far more complex issue than simply breaking the law. Most of those here illegally hold jobs and pay taxes. How does the country make up for that lost income stream, particularly when Trump wants to cut taxes. What happens to those small businesses near the border which depend on those immigrants, as workers and as a customer base? Or the farmers, who are claiming their farms will fail without that immigrant labor? I don't claim to have answers but I see the harm it can do it for the small businesses in border states.
1
They are racists, cowards and bullies who need to be reined in. Rounding up normal people is so much easier than actually dealing with criminals. Though we need immigration law overhaul, we need to be rational and reasonable. At Ellis Island immigrants were not treated like we do today, least of all like criminals. Who oversees the 'enforcers'? America was built on, depends on, and is a superpower because of immigration. ICE is an embarrassment that is not protecting MY country.
What law allows people to be arrested for looking Mexican,? Will wearing a head scarf come next? And if you like this kind of law enforcement, how long will it take before they come for you? Perhaps, when you refuse to go out in the blazing sun to pick the crops after all the worker are deported...Good luck with that...
Discretion is another way of saying ill do what I want.
16
Our politicians on both sides of the aisle have been unable or unwilling to reform our immigration laws. Everybody knows they need an overhaul but no one can get anything done.
So somebody finally steps in and says fine, if you wont make new laws, we'll have to enforce the old ones.
I think this will finally get our politicians back to the table to develop sound immigration law and enforcement of the welcoming America we all intended. Its our politicians fault...not the people who enforce the law, as we are a nation of laws.
Undoubtedly these "round ups" will have many anecdotal issues. There will be mistreatment and there will be poor judgement applied by the agents. There will be heartbreaking stories. And now that the press has a dog in the fight of immigration enforcement (Trump questioning), we will hear all of them.
But make no mistake, poor lawmaking is to blame here and our lawmakers should be held accountable. Not Trump, not ICE, and not the press.
So somebody finally steps in and says fine, if you wont make new laws, we'll have to enforce the old ones.
I think this will finally get our politicians back to the table to develop sound immigration law and enforcement of the welcoming America we all intended. Its our politicians fault...not the people who enforce the law, as we are a nation of laws.
Undoubtedly these "round ups" will have many anecdotal issues. There will be mistreatment and there will be poor judgement applied by the agents. There will be heartbreaking stories. And now that the press has a dog in the fight of immigration enforcement (Trump questioning), we will hear all of them.
But make no mistake, poor lawmaking is to blame here and our lawmakers should be held accountable. Not Trump, not ICE, and not the press.
129
We are not a nation of laws in fact, there being so many exceptions.
Could have said exact same thing about slavery...
And Trump and Pence and SS Storm Trooper Bannon. They love a fight, they yearn for conflict. Trump has always been a bombastic showman a con artist trying to scam the public with his exaggerated claims of greatness. Trump is more the culprit than everyone else combined and for you not to acknowledge the work of a dictatorial demagogue is show your amazing ignorance of the subject.
DD
Manhattan
DD
Manhattan
America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great. -- De Tocqueville
44
Since deportations were at a record high under Obama, it's hard to credit the assertions made by ICE staff that they were somehow shackled or prevented from doing their jobs.
The alternative explanation is that previously their work was harder and more dangerous because they had to focus on serious criminals and they didn't like having to work harder. Now, they are using a dragnet and can quickly put up big numbers by capturing people who have committed no crime at all. This raises the question -- are they now enforcing the law or are they enforcing a particular view of America as a white, Christian nation? I suspect it's latter.
The alternative explanation is that previously their work was harder and more dangerous because they had to focus on serious criminals and they didn't like having to work harder. Now, they are using a dragnet and can quickly put up big numbers by capturing people who have committed no crime at all. This raises the question -- are they now enforcing the law or are they enforcing a particular view of America as a white, Christian nation? I suspect it's latter.
50
"Since deportations were at a record high under Obama"
False. Obama expanded the definition of deportation to include people turned back at the order.
False. Obama expanded the definition of deportation to include people turned back at the order.
2
Your alternative facts are showing, Eugene.
Read about reality at the link below.
http://www.snopes.com/obama-deported-more-people/
Read about reality at the link below.
http://www.snopes.com/obama-deported-more-people/
It's amazing isn't it what some people will do for money. ICE agents must be really proud of themselves. Sad, very sad.
6
Proud for actually doing their job? How awful, that they are proud to enforce laws that have been on the books for decades!! How awful that they now have the ability to actually do their jobs rather than sit on their hands!! For Shame!
1
These are the same kinds of sociopathic, bullying, cruel personalities that are drawn to all "law enforcement" in this country. It's revolting how much joy they take in abusing vulnerable people. Mexico should close ITS border, and refuse to accept any delivery of undocumented workers, by the US government. Two can play this unholy game. I support Mexico's right to do so.
27
Yes, overgeneralize without any understanding of the actual people involved, definitely the most effective way to engage in discourse. I suggest you familiarize yourself with the CFR and USC regarding immigration law in the US. "Unholy game" is a laughably ignorant label for this.
Chilling and sickening.
Not my America.
Not my America.
20
But it IS happening. We have to do something. Take action; be an activist. I have to practice what I preach, too.
I will defend any one who is profiled by their appearance or accent who is pulled aside and questioned for no other reason than them looking and sounding different from I, a native New Yorker. This is an outrage, an absolute atrocity and attack against our democracy. And we will defeat this madness.
DD
Manhattan
DD
Manhattan
31
Mohamed Ali's son, Mohamed Ali Jr, a US citizen carrying a US passport, was detailed for a few hours in Florida airport. He and his mother were returning to the US from another country. He was profiled because of his foreign sounding name.
ICE is ridiculous.
ICE is ridiculous.
ICE officers experience "freedom" in the name of militarizing everyday life. Open warrant for racial profiling. Glad someone feels more free under Trump.
10
Deporting those here illegally, actually enforcing immigration law, does not make you less free. Quite the opposite.
Tom, RW's point is that ICE activity will make mistakes about "legality" and even more mistakes in how they prioritize who they go after.
The problem with the whole "line skipping business" is this:
There is no line for these people to skip. They literally have NO line-never did.
When their fathers came here to work landscaping jobs in the 1980s, many of them stayed behind and waited patiently for visas that never came. I know--I asked and this is one of the stories I was told.
When their family was murdered by drug cartels and their sister was kidnapped, there was no asylum to seek. The education was not there to even to know that was an option--but even if the concept had been explained, it was nonexistent.
This immigration problem is as much OUR fault as theirs. We--the children and grandchildren of immigrants who came here legally WHEN THERE WERE NO QUOTAS pulled up the ladder to the raft and then got mad when they climbed up anyway.
.....and the sad part is, we are now reliant on these very people to keep our boat afloat.
Without undocumented immigrants, our economy will contract. Our tax base will erode because newsflash, they pay taxes. Our real estate values will go down and our consumer GPD will decline. Don't believe me? Look it up.
But worse than the ways we will be hurt financially are the ways we are going to stain our own souls in this misbegotten folly.
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free...." unless they speak Spanish or have brown skin.
I don't think so--that Statue is not green for nothing......
There is no line for these people to skip. They literally have NO line-never did.
When their fathers came here to work landscaping jobs in the 1980s, many of them stayed behind and waited patiently for visas that never came. I know--I asked and this is one of the stories I was told.
When their family was murdered by drug cartels and their sister was kidnapped, there was no asylum to seek. The education was not there to even to know that was an option--but even if the concept had been explained, it was nonexistent.
This immigration problem is as much OUR fault as theirs. We--the children and grandchildren of immigrants who came here legally WHEN THERE WERE NO QUOTAS pulled up the ladder to the raft and then got mad when they climbed up anyway.
.....and the sad part is, we are now reliant on these very people to keep our boat afloat.
Without undocumented immigrants, our economy will contract. Our tax base will erode because newsflash, they pay taxes. Our real estate values will go down and our consumer GPD will decline. Don't believe me? Look it up.
But worse than the ways we will be hurt financially are the ways we are going to stain our own souls in this misbegotten folly.
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free...." unless they speak Spanish or have brown skin.
I don't think so--that Statue is not green for nothing......
40
They supply the labor and in some cases the drugs. We sell weapons to the cartels and provide jobs for those who cross the border. It would appear that we have had a mutually cooperative relationship. Why spoil it?
Regarding the Statue of Liberty, funny thing about copper: it starts out copper colored, and turns green.
Freedom to deport = freedom to break the law.
7
San Francisco is why most of the rest of the USA thinks Californians are so idiotic, and with good reason. Deporting illegal aliens is enforcing the law, not breaking it. You don't even get the basics right.
1
It is impossible for an illegal immigrant to have no criminal history at all...
Their very being in the United States is a criminal activity.
Their very being in the United States is a criminal activity.
This is a pure purge.
Here, in many towns across suburban NJ, they make these check points and randomly stop and question anyone who doesn't look white enough. Pure discrimination at its finest in a new America. Businesses in many Latin communities are taking a huge hit now cause people are simply afraid to leave their houses and shop. Communities are getting decimated.
Unfortunately, this is just the inception of this nightmare. And, somehow, i have this gut feeling that after illegal immigrants they gonna come up with a way to go after legal residents. I just know that, according to the history of this country, this is really all about white supremacy and making America white again.
But hey, thats what people voted for, and thats a big fact.
Here, in many towns across suburban NJ, they make these check points and randomly stop and question anyone who doesn't look white enough. Pure discrimination at its finest in a new America. Businesses in many Latin communities are taking a huge hit now cause people are simply afraid to leave their houses and shop. Communities are getting decimated.
Unfortunately, this is just the inception of this nightmare. And, somehow, i have this gut feeling that after illegal immigrants they gonna come up with a way to go after legal residents. I just know that, according to the history of this country, this is really all about white supremacy and making America white again.
But hey, thats what people voted for, and thats a big fact.
19
I wonder if the people who wants these human beings deported and separated from their families are the same people who have unlimited compassion and clamor for the rights of the unborn?
32
Nice try, but you need to focus on the word ILLEGAL.
They separated their own families when they moved to America. Just because one person moves here from Mexico, or a few, thus separating their own family doesn't mean that all their cousins, aunts, uncles should be able to sneak across the border and stay here.
There are other names for the leash that restrains ICE and CBP officers: due process and civil rights. Removing these restraints infringes upon and diminishes the rights of all Americans -- even if your family arrived on the Mayflower.
When federal officers demand proof of citizenship or immigration status from large groups, they are removing probable cause as a justification for their intrusion.
When they target particular locations they are engaging in racial profiling -- already shown as unconstitution by NYC's experience with stop & frisk.
These actions by ICE proceed on a false premise: that we carry proof of citizenship or immigration status with us at all times. And the Trump administration's contempt for due process rights mean that those detained will be presumed not to have the right to correct false imprisonment. That's too much to bear.
Even under the comparatively competent Bush and Obama administrations, US citizens were unlawfully detained and even deported. Without access to legal due process, Americans will be cut off from lawful remedies to imprisonment resulting from inevitable errors.
The lack of a mandatory national ID card has long symbolized the freedoms and rule of law enjoyed by Americans. Are we to relinquish this for police-state tactics? Shall we sell our liberty so cheaply?
Time to support the ACLU and call for a hotline to monitor and interdict these storm troopers.
When federal officers demand proof of citizenship or immigration status from large groups, they are removing probable cause as a justification for their intrusion.
When they target particular locations they are engaging in racial profiling -- already shown as unconstitution by NYC's experience with stop & frisk.
These actions by ICE proceed on a false premise: that we carry proof of citizenship or immigration status with us at all times. And the Trump administration's contempt for due process rights mean that those detained will be presumed not to have the right to correct false imprisonment. That's too much to bear.
Even under the comparatively competent Bush and Obama administrations, US citizens were unlawfully detained and even deported. Without access to legal due process, Americans will be cut off from lawful remedies to imprisonment resulting from inevitable errors.
The lack of a mandatory national ID card has long symbolized the freedoms and rule of law enjoyed by Americans. Are we to relinquish this for police-state tactics? Shall we sell our liberty so cheaply?
Time to support the ACLU and call for a hotline to monitor and interdict these storm troopers.
19
What I don't hear from those who say "what part of illegal don't you understand" is an effort to punish those who are responsible for much of the illegal immigration in this country. That is the "job creators" who are hiring people who are here illegally. Why not throw them in jail. People come here to get jobs and they get jobs. If we punished the demand side of the equation some would stay home.
I don't believe that's really the answer. Immigrants are hard working and do many jobs that we don't want to to. When trump said he was going to create jobs I don't believe his supporters thought those jobs would be picking produce in the sun, or mowing yards, or cleaning hotel rooms. But maybe his supporters need to see what immigrants really do by having our produce be scarce and expensive and restaurants and hotels substantially raise prices because of what they need to pay to get help to do the work.
Some people voted for this, show them what they voted for. Sadly the rest of us have to suffer too...
I don't believe that's really the answer. Immigrants are hard working and do many jobs that we don't want to to. When trump said he was going to create jobs I don't believe his supporters thought those jobs would be picking produce in the sun, or mowing yards, or cleaning hotel rooms. But maybe his supporters need to see what immigrants really do by having our produce be scarce and expensive and restaurants and hotels substantially raise prices because of what they need to pay to get help to do the work.
Some people voted for this, show them what they voted for. Sadly the rest of us have to suffer too...
30
If they want those jobs, let them pursue them legally.
The simple fact is that deportation or insistence on obeying immigration law cuts across party lines and may be the single issue that elected Trump. My grandparents were legal immigrants and it took an eternity and a stint in the army during wartime to move that along. I've waited in lines behind illegal ("undocumented" is a euphemism) immigrants who came for reasons having nothing to do with assimilation and contribution to America - they just wanted the benefits of the U.S. (I distinguish between the idea and the country). And beneficiaries of DACA have had two decades to craft a path to citizenship. I'm a lifelong Democrat/Progressive but on this issue, Trump has struck a nerve. Democrats need to deal with it.
8
Who's working for whom? What ICE officers enjoy doing is completely beside the point. Our national goal should be to focus on felony offenders who arrived outside of legal channels. Dragging others away from homes or out of airports is counter productive and demoralizing for all immigrants, especially children and youth, who should be part of our vital future, not a fearful hidden subculture.
The main problem is that we do not have viable immigration or drug policies. So even though the net immigration from Mexico itself is zero, we still have issues.
The main problem is that we do not have viable immigration or drug policies. So even though the net immigration from Mexico itself is zero, we still have issues.
6
"Are your papers in order?" is no longer a cold war joke.
No, it Isn’t.
Almost everyone carries a valid driver’s license or photo ID.
The joke is no longer a joke.
No, it Isn’t.
Almost everyone carries a valid driver’s license or photo ID.
The joke is no longer a joke.
4
Ask for a warrant. Reasonable supicion and Due Process should apply to all but clearly they don't. Must be great fun to arrest anyone you find. Lot less work than doing a good job.
When I moved to the U.K. In the 1970s as a student I walked around with my green booklet issued by the British government. If I moved, I had to report it. But all Britons had to carry I.D. Or "papers" at all times (as did many citizens of other Western European countries. I felt so free and so lucky that in the US I could leave my house and go anywhere without ever having to provide ID...not to the police or anyone else. I'd give anything to feel that free again.
Why is it difficult to understand that illegal aliens have broken our laws?. Anyone in this country illegally or expired visa should be deported. They are not entitled to the constitutional rights US citizens have. I suggest to anyone who thinks we lack compassion, to try sneaking in any country including Mexico. they will be jailed without explanation.
I have no problem with our law enforcement doing their job enforcing existing laws. There are many different types of visas available for anyone who wants to work here legally. They are too lazy to apply for them or simply prefer a free pass and jumping the line. I have no sympathy for such individuals.
There are some 700 million people waiting to move at a moment`s notice to Western countries because it's easier than staying home and fixing their own problems. Illegal immigration is a huge problem that will destabilize our own country.
I have no problem with our law enforcement doing their job enforcing existing laws. There are many different types of visas available for anyone who wants to work here legally. They are too lazy to apply for them or simply prefer a free pass and jumping the line. I have no sympathy for such individuals.
There are some 700 million people waiting to move at a moment`s notice to Western countries because it's easier than staying home and fixing their own problems. Illegal immigration is a huge problem that will destabilize our own country.
10
Trump says they're getting rid of bad hombres and Congress refuses to reform immigration law, making ICE look like thugs.
2
Congress refuses to reform immigration law,
==================
Immigration law was reformed back in 1986, remember?
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Immigration law was reformed back in 1986, remember?
1
The article says, “Morale amongst our agents and officers has increased exponentially since the signing of the orders,” the unions representing ICE and Border Patrol agents said in a joint statement after President Trump issued the executive orders on immigration late last month."
Now we know why republicans attack public employee unions EXCEPT law enforcement and fire fighters. Their version of Hitler's brown shirts have arrived in America.
All it will take for them to be successful is for Good People to do nothing. Will we? Not me. Resist, obstruct, stand up to them whenever you see their unfettered bullying, find one of the attorneys who have agreed to represent them pro-bono, take every non-violent step to stop this forced-march to WWIII and world chaos engineered by The Top 1% Global Financial Elite Robber Baron/ Radical Religion Good Old Boys' Party and their shouters like The Con Don.
NOW it the ONLY time WE can STOP THEM.
Now we know why republicans attack public employee unions EXCEPT law enforcement and fire fighters. Their version of Hitler's brown shirts have arrived in America.
All it will take for them to be successful is for Good People to do nothing. Will we? Not me. Resist, obstruct, stand up to them whenever you see their unfettered bullying, find one of the attorneys who have agreed to represent them pro-bono, take every non-violent step to stop this forced-march to WWIII and world chaos engineered by The Top 1% Global Financial Elite Robber Baron/ Radical Religion Good Old Boys' Party and their shouters like The Con Don.
NOW it the ONLY time WE can STOP THEM.
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The top 1% populationHEAVILY favored DEMOCRATS in the election. They were the big money men for the Dems when they spent 1,3 BILLIIN dollars, and got their butz handed to them.
Who voted for American values? The American Citizens. Not 3-4 million 'dead' and illegal voters.
I am concerned about your attitude of militarism when you write about"stoppingthem." How? With intimidation, clubs, crowbar and knives, like the protesters have been doing the past month?
Who voted for American values? The American Citizens. Not 3-4 million 'dead' and illegal voters.
I am concerned about your attitude of militarism when you write about"stoppingthem." How? With intimidation, clubs, crowbar and knives, like the protesters have been doing the past month?
If ICE can now inspect passengers on a LA - NY Red Eye Special obviously this will end up in serious panic and people getting hurt. Dangerous. Greyhound Bus coming to the rescue.
13
If you are here illegally, then certainly you should be concerned. Otherwise, no sweat. Maybe illegal & undocumented should self report and apply legally...
Damokleez, tell that to Muhammed Ali's son. People are being detained based on appearance and surname. When you are detained by ICE and must spend 3 hours proving your citizenship, maybe you will understand how outrageous this conduct has become.
I wonder how the 30% of Latinos who voted for Trump feel now as they watch the ICE agents disrupt their communities. I am sure ICE is not seeking out those who overstay their time from other counties as aggressively as they are doing from the South American countries.
14
The Latinos who voted for President Trump support the rule of law and often waited years to enter the country LEGALLY. They, like the majority of Americans, are outraged at others who skip the line.
8
They feel great because the criminals and gang members will be removed from their community.....is this explanation to difficult for you?
1
It is reasonable to assume that the 30% of latinos who voted for Trump are US citizens....came here legally....respect the laws of this nation....and don't like to see illegal aliens from ANYWHERE ignoring and exploiting our laws or stealing our jobs.
Or are you admitting "some illegal aliens vote"?
I am sure ICE is operating without prejudice, but the FACTS are that overwhelmingly most illegals are from Mexico (72%) and Central American (roughly 20%).
Or are you admitting "some illegal aliens vote"?
I am sure ICE is operating without prejudice, but the FACTS are that overwhelmingly most illegals are from Mexico (72%) and Central American (roughly 20%).
1
While Trump was not my choice, Here is what I understand.
We are a country with laws
We are a country of immigrants
There are laws regarding the entry to this country either a visitor or immigrant.
Undocumented -you probably broke the law in getting in the country
If you break the law there are consequences outlined in the law
Illegal immigrants are very expensive to the taxpayer in that they don't pay taxes, medical, social security, disability, education costs etc.
We are a better country with immigrants, the kind that understand they must respect the protocols and entry rules, they make really good citizens
Illegals make really bad citizens, they can't vote or participate in any way
Third world country's have no rules and boundaries - are we there? Why is the press pitching this as if it is some gestapo type response when it is simply enforcing the law? as I understand it we are now moving towards getting a grip on the "illegal" population, exporting those with criminal backgrounds.
We are a country with laws
We are a country of immigrants
There are laws regarding the entry to this country either a visitor or immigrant.
Undocumented -you probably broke the law in getting in the country
If you break the law there are consequences outlined in the law
Illegal immigrants are very expensive to the taxpayer in that they don't pay taxes, medical, social security, disability, education costs etc.
We are a better country with immigrants, the kind that understand they must respect the protocols and entry rules, they make really good citizens
Illegals make really bad citizens, they can't vote or participate in any way
Third world country's have no rules and boundaries - are we there? Why is the press pitching this as if it is some gestapo type response when it is simply enforcing the law? as I understand it we are now moving towards getting a grip on the "illegal" population, exporting those with criminal backgrounds.
44
Liberals don't understand the trap the are falling into. They do not understand that they will be portrayed as aiding and abetting criminals by the conservatives (and many liberals as well). The Trump administration understands how to use propaganda and liberals don't have a clue what's coming. If they continue down the road of supporting illegal immigration they will be demonized by the Trump administration and they will lose even more support. This is the issue that Trump ran on and why he won. It's not a winning strategy in the long run to be for criminality. They need to give it up and move on to more important issues.
"undocumented immigrants" are in reality refugees of our own making. Read up on the our history in the region (and around the world). As for "the law; immigration to the United States on a temporary or permanent basis is generally limited to three different routes: employment, family reunification, or humanitarian protection. Many refugees do not have family here. Very real fears of imminent danger are often difficult to prove – especially to judges who are skeptical at best. Coming here for employment requires one to have a job lined up and an eligible employer who will sponsor them. Each year the United States sets a numerical limit on how many refugees will be admitted for humanitarian reasons. To be admitted as refugees, individuals must be screened by multiple international and U.S. agencies and prove that they have a “well-founded fear of persecution based on race, religion, membership in a particular social group, political opinion, or national origin.”
There are also significant backlogs based on our quotas for immigration. Even if one can qualify it can take 10 to 25years to get a visa. Most if not all of the people coming here from Central America cannot wait that long. They are hardly to only refugees desperate for a safe haven.
There are also significant backlogs based on our quotas for immigration. Even if one can qualify it can take 10 to 25years to get a visa. Most if not all of the people coming here from Central America cannot wait that long. They are hardly to only refugees desperate for a safe haven.
Why do i have to keep explaining this? Everyone pays taxes, everyone, when you buy anything you are paying taxes...also that social security that they pay for from jobs they get taxed from, they can't ever claim it. Why? Because they don't have a stupid social security number. But please don't say they don't pay taxes, unless you're a hermit. But if you consume anything at all, you are without doubt paying some kind of tax.
Counting down to the wave of documented cases of overreach and abuse by frothing-at-the-mouth agents in 5...4...3...2...
27
I must admit that I find this a good thing. I am not all Donald Trump but that was one of my reasons why I voted for him. If you are here illegally then you have to go. It can't get any more simple than that. If you commit a crime, you will do the time.
29
"[T]hey [ICE officers] bristled at what they considered stereotypes of indiscriminate enforcers who want to sweep grandmothers off the street or separate families."
They can "bristle" all they want, it is obvious that these stereotypes have more than a grain of truth. Indeed, it is exactly what we are seeing.
Who chooses to sign up with ICE? I rather suspect a large majority of them have an authoritarian streak, choosing a job where they can control other people's lives.
They can "bristle" all they want, it is obvious that these stereotypes have more than a grain of truth. Indeed, it is exactly what we are seeing.
Who chooses to sign up with ICE? I rather suspect a large majority of them have an authoritarian streak, choosing a job where they can control other people's lives.
34
Like fixing a broken, leaky vase with a sledgehammer. Why are we setting up more paramilitary thugs instead of enforcing eVerify? Everyone picked on Romney for the term self-deport, but it really would be better to crack down on illegal theft of SSNs, and those employing people at low low wages than to round up and question random people who "look like illegals".
40
Blue State: I think mandatory E-verify IS coming, later on. Be fair. Trump hasn't been in office quite 5 weeks. He's done a LOT in that time.
And remember that states like California actually make E-verify ILLEGAL and even go after companies which use it to screen applicants. There will be open rebellion in California -- like the Southern States in the 60s that refused to integrate -- and it will require National Guard troops to enforce the law there.
NOTE: I agree on illegal SS numbers, but most illegals work for cash under the table.
And remember that states like California actually make E-verify ILLEGAL and even go after companies which use it to screen applicants. There will be open rebellion in California -- like the Southern States in the 60s that refused to integrate -- and it will require National Guard troops to enforce the law there.
NOTE: I agree on illegal SS numbers, but most illegals work for cash under the table.
4
Agents were looking for someone thought to be on the plane--someone who had received deportation orders. The piece said early on, that agents were checking ID's, but did not say why until the conclusion. Was the author trying to add to a narrative, but would still be able to say the story was complete? We know that many readers do not get to the end of stories. It is this sort of reporting that Mr. Trump is using to hammer the media.
13
The most humane, moral thing to do here is enforce the law that protects the rights of the American people. It is about time. We are a first-world country.
30
We all know where this is headed...the first mother, son, daughter, or father that suffers serious injury or death from a botched raid will personalize an administration already out of control.
10
These are the characteristics of a Police State not a Democracy.
66
I am a doctor. One of our patient is here illegally. She's an insulin dependent diabetic. She is now petrified to come out of her house to come see us to monitor her health. I have also heard of ICE agents in California staking out the parking lots of community health centers so they can arrest patients after they come to appointments. It's inhuman - they are tearing families apart. These folks are doing jobs no Americans want to do. If they have no criminal record other than immigration violations, give them a path to become citizens.
76
She can get all her insulin, for free, back in her native homeland of Mexico, which is a peaceful democracy with NATIONAL HEALTH CARE.
10
Illegal immigration tears families apart.
As Mexican American, I always try to recuse myself on any discussion about illegal immigration because I cannot be impartial. I can see both sides of the equation and I feel for both.
However, I am extremely bothered by the recent campaign to paint immigrants and Mexicans in particular as criminals. We are NOT! We are people who believe in peace and hard work. As an American, I see this as a lazy, cowardly way for Pres. Trump to be popular among the angry. It is easy to target the weak. How can anyone see strength on this man is beyond me.
The worst part for me is the common rhetoric now used to rally against immigrants "lets keep Americans safe". Since when has an immigrant from the South committed an act of terrorism? NEVER!
I do believe that there are better, clever, kinder ways to deal with issues. After all we are Americans. There is nothing we cannot do if we put our minds to it. I would even concede that yes, illegal immigration needs to be curved but I strongly believe that we can continue to be a great compassionate nation in the process.
Finally, the one thing I urge everyone to remember the wise words from our beloved Benjamin Franklin which I am paraphrasing "Those who sacrifice freedom/Liberty for security deserve neither and lose both" and "There is no such a thing as a good war or bad peace".. how applicable that is still today...
However, I am extremely bothered by the recent campaign to paint immigrants and Mexicans in particular as criminals. We are NOT! We are people who believe in peace and hard work. As an American, I see this as a lazy, cowardly way for Pres. Trump to be popular among the angry. It is easy to target the weak. How can anyone see strength on this man is beyond me.
The worst part for me is the common rhetoric now used to rally against immigrants "lets keep Americans safe". Since when has an immigrant from the South committed an act of terrorism? NEVER!
I do believe that there are better, clever, kinder ways to deal with issues. After all we are Americans. There is nothing we cannot do if we put our minds to it. I would even concede that yes, illegal immigration needs to be curved but I strongly believe that we can continue to be a great compassionate nation in the process.
Finally, the one thing I urge everyone to remember the wise words from our beloved Benjamin Franklin which I am paraphrasing "Those who sacrifice freedom/Liberty for security deserve neither and lose both" and "There is no such a thing as a good war or bad peace".. how applicable that is still today...
514
Most of us are from "immigrants", C.R. That is why this red meat grandstanding by The Con Don is so unamerican.
16
So, breaking the law does not make you a criminal? The marine who make a wrong turn and drove across the border into Mexico who had guns in his truck and declared that he had them, was still arrested and locked up for 7 or 8 months in Mexico. Did he break the law?
5
desuhu: Breaking immigration law is a civil offense, not a crime. In NY State it's the law to wear a seat belt. Does it make you a criminal if you don't? So no, breaking the law in many cases does not make you a criminal.
Much of our supposedly modern world is still believing a nation is partly defined by who keep out and throw out. Ultimately, the underlying dilemmas behind whether a certain law is enforced or not change only when the law is changed.
Has any qualified group from all ends of our political spectrum actually studied the full economic, demographic and cultural effect an open border might have on our society? For just one example, shouldn't we import a work force rather than export jobs?
That approach would be very hard to do, even harder to accept. It's easier to build a wall and round people up. Or is it? Get back to me when your taxes go up and the price of your lettuce doubles.
Has any qualified group from all ends of our political spectrum actually studied the full economic, demographic and cultural effect an open border might have on our society? For just one example, shouldn't we import a work force rather than export jobs?
That approach would be very hard to do, even harder to accept. It's easier to build a wall and round people up. Or is it? Get back to me when your taxes go up and the price of your lettuce doubles.
14
That is the experiment behind the European Union. In case you haven't noticed, the results have been controversial at best.
2
It is a crime to enter our country illegally, so I don't see what all the hubbub is about. We haven't been enforcing this law for years and it's about time. There are plenty of people wanting to come here legally and it takes them 3 or 4 years to accomplish this, so why do those who walk across our border think they're special? I have a niece from Brazil, who went through the legal process and she said it was about 4 years before she got her citizenship. I agree with what they're doing wholeheartedly.
43
3-4 yrs!!? She has to have family here to gain it that fast. No way it takes 3-4 yrs to gain citizenship. Just to become a resident takes a few yrs and then to become a Citizen, you have to, if the rules have not changed, be in the country for a period of 160 days for 5 consecutive yrs. So 3-4 yrs! has to be through family and most people do not have that luxury. I am not condoning illegal immigration I am just bringing to light the reasons why so many do. The ones who gain it fast are the highly educated. So that leaves a super majority, cooks, cleaners, farm hands etc etc, out of luck. The problem I see is, that the illegal immigration is geared and focused on those south of the border. What about the Filipinos, Chinese, Europeans etc etc. Illegal immigration is not a Mexican issue but a world issue.
3
Three or four years? Try ten or twenty for people who come from "undesirable" countries and just want to work hard and have a better life.
3
It is not possible to agree with this "wholeheartedly." People who think it's right to deport people who've been here for ten or twenty years and who have deep roots and children in this country just don't have a heart.
Reinforcing the theory that many enter law enforcement to take out their frustrations on minorities and the less fortunate.
27
You didn't mention the fact that by being here, they are in fact criminals. Enough with the pity for your underpaid gardener and housekeeper.
7
Lots of comments showing concern about illegal immigrants not cooperating with the police if they become victims of crime.
If they left the US, they would not be here to become victims of crime.
If they left the US, they would not be here to become victims of crime.
21
Yes, if immigrants weren't here, it would leave only REAL Americans to be victimized.
Some of them are here because of a constant threat of violent crime: some being threatened personally by gangs and cartels. The threat of violence and robbery which accompanies the trip to El Norte is severe enough that it should make you realize how bad the conditions must be where they came from.
What a horrible statement.
The police aren't concerned solely about undocumented VICTIMS of crime being deterred from reporting criminals.
The police are concerned undocumented people who WITNESSED crimes will be deterred from reporting what they've seen. Such as an undocumented person witnessing the murder of a child or rape of a woman or burglary of an elderly person. And then being afraid to come forward with their knowledge that could solve the case.
The police aren't concerned solely about undocumented VICTIMS of crime being deterred from reporting criminals.
The police are concerned undocumented people who WITNESSED crimes will be deterred from reporting what they've seen. Such as an undocumented person witnessing the murder of a child or rape of a woman or burglary of an elderly person. And then being afraid to come forward with their knowledge that could solve the case.
From the very first sentence, "...waited outside a church shelter where undocumented immigrants had gone to stay warm," until the very end, this is the most disturbing and alarming report that I have ever read. Had it not contained names of US cities, I would never have imagined that I was in the "U.S." section of a US newspaper. In 2017. I am 60 years old. This is not the America in which I was raised.
103
No, it's not. We were raised in an America which contained mostly legal Americans.
7
You're right, for the last 8 years, it's become lawless, with amateur leaders picking and choosing which laws to enforce.
9
you have just described the effect of left propaganda on unsuspecting folks
So when it comes time to pick the crops before they rot in the fields can we count on the Trump voters to roll up their sleeves and get out there? Immigrants to the USA contribute far more than they take away and we will all be poorer with their exclusion. Hey Walmart shoppers, ready for a price hike?
67
Maybe all those able bodied people who did terrible in school because they didn't want to "act white" can go do the ag work? That is what happened before welfare, and guess what, no poor black child was ever the subject of peer scorn for doing well in school. We have created a dynamic that hurts the work ethic of blacks. Even MLK said that no matter what your job is, do it with pride. This should be the new Americorp, maybe daycare and busses to ag jobs during the summer. You do recall that summer vacation used to be so kids could help in the fields, right?
1
Walmart does not sell many products from Mexico Scooter..
When will you in the media stop using the phrase, "undocumented immigrant"? It is not even a real phrase, because each word contradicts the other. To be undocumented makes you an alien. To be an immigrant, you must be in possession of immigration papers.
31
Sorry, you don't have a grasp of the terminology. See this official government definition, for instance, of the term "permanent resident alien" as "an alien admitted to the United States as a lawful permanent resident":
"Permanent residents are also commonly referred to as immigrants; however, the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) broadly defines an immigrant as any alien in the United States, except one legally admitted under specific nonimmigrant categories (INA section 101(a)(15)). An illegal alien who entered the United States without inspection, for example, would be strictly defined as an immigrant under the INA but is not a permanent resident alien. Lawful permanent residents are legally accorded the privilege of residing permanently in the United States. They may be issued immigrant visas by the Department of State overseas or adjusted to permanent resident status by U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services in the United States."
https://www.uscis.gov/tools/glossary/permanent-resident-alien
The terms "conditional resident" and "returning resident" are terms that you might also find useful.
It would've been useful also if the current administration had been familiar with the varieties of status before issuing their chaotic and poorly thought-out edit.
"Permanent residents are also commonly referred to as immigrants; however, the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) broadly defines an immigrant as any alien in the United States, except one legally admitted under specific nonimmigrant categories (INA section 101(a)(15)). An illegal alien who entered the United States without inspection, for example, would be strictly defined as an immigrant under the INA but is not a permanent resident alien. Lawful permanent residents are legally accorded the privilege of residing permanently in the United States. They may be issued immigrant visas by the Department of State overseas or adjusted to permanent resident status by U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services in the United States."
https://www.uscis.gov/tools/glossary/permanent-resident-alien
The terms "conditional resident" and "returning resident" are terms that you might also find useful.
It would've been useful also if the current administration had been familiar with the varieties of status before issuing their chaotic and poorly thought-out edit.
4
Speaking of not following through a thought: I meant, sarcastically, "edict" not "edit."
Although I was born - 1944 - and raised in the USA, I think of myself as a "legal alien" - much like Antoine de Saint-Exupery's "The Little Prince" would be. I've been reading " Connectography - Mapping The Future of Global Civilization, by Parag Khanna (only on page 56 of ~411, but I started by reading his Conclusion, which ends with "Building a Borderless World). His ideas, and the ideas of others he quotes, seem to me to a lot more forward thinking, and more rational/logical, than anything coming out of Washington!
Happy to be here, but not a "Patriot/Nationalist" - the Cosmos is my Country... a Centrist, politically...
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/who-is-undocumented-immigrant.html
Happy to be here, but not a "Patriot/Nationalist" - the Cosmos is my Country... a Centrist, politically...
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/who-is-undocumented-immigrant.html
1
The obsession of so many law and order commenters is their hypocritical blindness to the contempt their hero in the White House has for the law. In their minds, it seems, once you grasp the reins of power by hook or crook, you become the law. This kind of knee jerk reaction is a fast track to fascism.
25
Commenters here who are cheering this on and congratulating themselves for just wanting to have immigration law enforced either didn't read the article closely or envision a vastly different and more repressive society than the one I want to live in.
Shoplifting and speeding are both illegal, but I don't want to see the same law enforcement tactics used against shoplifters and speeders that might come into play for breaking up a violent drug gang. I don't want to see the places I shop filled with armed police; I don't want to see a middle schooler who slips lip gloss into her pocket thrown onto the ground, handcuffed, publicly humiliated, and sentenced to many years in maximum security prison. If I'm driving ten miles over the speed limit to get to work on time, I deserve a speeding ticket, but not to have my car impounded and to lose my job.
The issue is proportion of response and how we choose to allocate our resources as a society. The only way to stop all illegal activity (and actually, you could never succeed) is to make a society so regimented and monitored that no one enjoys any freedom at all. And why, for instance, is the crime of seeking a better life under a false SS number and paying taxes so much worse than being a citizen and evading your taxes?
All our laws are increasingly enforced selectively on the basis of race and wealth. I'm much more concerned about creating a police state than about peaceful undocumented immigrants living under the radar.
Shoplifting and speeding are both illegal, but I don't want to see the same law enforcement tactics used against shoplifters and speeders that might come into play for breaking up a violent drug gang. I don't want to see the places I shop filled with armed police; I don't want to see a middle schooler who slips lip gloss into her pocket thrown onto the ground, handcuffed, publicly humiliated, and sentenced to many years in maximum security prison. If I'm driving ten miles over the speed limit to get to work on time, I deserve a speeding ticket, but not to have my car impounded and to lose my job.
The issue is proportion of response and how we choose to allocate our resources as a society. The only way to stop all illegal activity (and actually, you could never succeed) is to make a society so regimented and monitored that no one enjoys any freedom at all. And why, for instance, is the crime of seeking a better life under a false SS number and paying taxes so much worse than being a citizen and evading your taxes?
All our laws are increasingly enforced selectively on the basis of race and wealth. I'm much more concerned about creating a police state than about peaceful undocumented immigrants living under the radar.
158
You're right about enforcement being selective, hence Hillary is still walking around free with that stupid forced grin on her face.
2
I guess you don't want SS to be there, in the future, for you and your children, since you hold the program in such contempt -- you think identity theft is just fine??? REALLY?
BTW: you can't just "make up" an SS number. The numbers are not random; they have meaning. The IRS would spot a fake number easily. They know which names go with which numbers, too. If an illegal has a false SS number, it was STOLEN...not "invented". They STOLE someone ELSE'S number, ruining that person's credit or their future ability to collect SS checks.
BTW: you can't just "make up" an SS number. The numbers are not random; they have meaning. The IRS would spot a fake number easily. They know which names go with which numbers, too. If an illegal has a false SS number, it was STOLEN...not "invented". They STOLE someone ELSE'S number, ruining that person's credit or their future ability to collect SS checks.
4
most criminals have started small and young-
by pursuing a shoplift you may have saved that kid's life
by pursuing a shoplift you may have saved that kid's life
So, essentially, ICE officers have been given permission to do their job.
24
I thought the greatest fear was radical Islamic terrorist...the president's rationale behind his immigration ban.
Yes, there are "bad dudes" coming in illegally from the southern border (or from Canada, I assume). But it sounds to me these gleeful ICE agents will soon be engaged in vigilantism claiming their badges make it okay.
All these jobs...if unemployment rates are so low in some parts of the country that jobs which pay up to $25 per hour cannot be filled...exactly what jobs are these undocumented workers stealing? The entire construction trade and restaurant trade would come to a screeching halt where I live if the "Mexicans" were deported. Nobody who is grousing about their lost jobs (coal workers or factory workers) are going to sign up to be dishwashers or non-union spacklers and ditch diggers. It definitely isn't fair to those waiting in line to come to the US legally but why doesn't Trump use that money to fight ISIS and create jobs these whining Americans acknowledge times change. These immigrant-haters (Not THE terrorist haters) wouldn't take the jobs these "bad dudes" to toil at. Sounds like the vicious haters are ramping up a movement which is simultaneously set to destroy the earth. Sounds like Soylent Green.
Yes, there are "bad dudes" coming in illegally from the southern border (or from Canada, I assume). But it sounds to me these gleeful ICE agents will soon be engaged in vigilantism claiming their badges make it okay.
All these jobs...if unemployment rates are so low in some parts of the country that jobs which pay up to $25 per hour cannot be filled...exactly what jobs are these undocumented workers stealing? The entire construction trade and restaurant trade would come to a screeching halt where I live if the "Mexicans" were deported. Nobody who is grousing about their lost jobs (coal workers or factory workers) are going to sign up to be dishwashers or non-union spacklers and ditch diggers. It definitely isn't fair to those waiting in line to come to the US legally but why doesn't Trump use that money to fight ISIS and create jobs these whining Americans acknowledge times change. These immigrant-haters (Not THE terrorist haters) wouldn't take the jobs these "bad dudes" to toil at. Sounds like the vicious haters are ramping up a movement which is simultaneously set to destroy the earth. Sounds like Soylent Green.
22
They will sign up for those jobs if you stop giving food stamps and welfare to the able bodied who can do the work. Why should I support them with my work and my careful control of how much money I spend and how many children I have?
How simple the world is for many people—if they’re here illegally, lock ‘em up. and throw ‘em out! That simple. No interest at all in the complexities of the actual situation. For decades, we have tacitly encouraged (and exploited) illegals to pick our crops, clean our hotel rooms, do the work citizens seemed unwilling to do. Not only that, but by paying these workers lower wages, the rest of us would pay less for food and accommodation. I can hear the moaning when food prices go up and the tourist industry struggles to fill the vacant jobs.
Trump’s new policies may satisfy some people but it will accomplish little anything except impose hardship on decent families, legal as well as illegal.
Trump’s new policies may satisfy some people but it will accomplish little anything except impose hardship on decent families, legal as well as illegal.
23
We need comprehensive immigration reform. There is a sizable number of immigrants who fled their country seeking asylum in the United States. They passed a credible fear interview at the border and were released, but the asylum process is difficult to navigate and border agents do not give them any information about how to apply for asylum (or the fact that they need to do so within a year of their arrival in the US). On top of all this, criteria for asylum requires that the persecution be based on an aspect of your identity that you can't change. You might have been threatened, shot at, beaten, or had family members killed by gang members...and would be unable to obtain lawful status in the US. Gangs like Mara-18 and MS-13 have a powerful reach throughout South and Central America. We cannot be blind to the fact that the decision to flee to the US is 'life-or-death' in many cases and OUR decision to deport many undocumented people will be a matter of 'life-or-death' as well.
7
We have gangs and violence too. Look at Chicago.
Illegals move to exactly the cities and neighborhoods in the US that HAVE gangs and drug dealers and crime -- some of it based on illegal immigration. They sent US their criminals and gangsters! to get rid of them!
Why is a gang in Honduras unendurable...but gangs in Chicago or East L.A. no problem at all?
Illegals move to exactly the cities and neighborhoods in the US that HAVE gangs and drug dealers and crime -- some of it based on illegal immigration. They sent US their criminals and gangsters! to get rid of them!
Why is a gang in Honduras unendurable...but gangs in Chicago or East L.A. no problem at all?
2
Citizens are finally understanding that under Obama, it was ok to be in this country illegally as long as you did not commit a serious felony. I was amazed to learn that illegal aliens who pled guilty to drunk driving were allowed to remain in the USA ---my dad was killed by a drunk driver---I can't believe this kind of disregard for the "health, welfare & safety" of US citizens. The woman holed up in the church sanctuary in Denver had the nerve to use false documents to work, have a bunch of kids in the USA, plead guilty to fraud, get a deportation order....and then go back to Mexico and get caught sneaking back in and....under Obama she was given a "stay" and allowed to return to her family in Denver!
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! People do not get to pick and choose what laws apply. Immigration is supposed to serve the broad national interest....not just the interests of illegal aliens and employers. Robots are displacing humans and we just don't need an army of poor people anymore. Sorry, as a Democrat I say the Democratic Party is never going to win with its open borders policies. This kind of stupidity and disrespect for our laws and our culture and the American people gave us Trump.
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! People do not get to pick and choose what laws apply. Immigration is supposed to serve the broad national interest....not just the interests of illegal aliens and employers. Robots are displacing humans and we just don't need an army of poor people anymore. Sorry, as a Democrat I say the Democratic Party is never going to win with its open borders policies. This kind of stupidity and disrespect for our laws and our culture and the American people gave us Trump.
25
The Democratic party wants open borders and no enforcement of immigration so that they can get more DEMOCRATS. And so that the children of these illegal immigrants will vote Democrat in the future. Isn't it obvious?
10
No, it's not obvious, considering that these were in effect the same policies under GW Bush, and which go back to Reagan, and which moderate Republicans also supported until Trump took over.
jj, you already know that this immigration problem has existed under administrations of both parties, so leave the Fox News/Breitbart explanations concerning Democrats out of the dialogue.
It is scary that these agents are so excited and almost giddy. A few days ago they removed a woman that has a brain tumor from the hospital where she was being treated. I don't understand why they feel like finding and deporting only serious criminals was a waste of their time. That seem a lot more important than arresting the people who do lawn care, kitchen or farm work.
28
I'm curious, who pays for this woman's treatment? As sad as her case is there are many Americans who are in the same boat. Charity begins at home. Let Mexico pay for this woman's healthcare.
2
Sure, give GS-07s and -09s authority too make independent decisions and wonder why their actions lead to bad outcomes. Jeesh...
23
The desire to have a better life is also the desire of virtually every human being on planet earth. Hence the development of immigration law. All nations have immigration law (including Mexico, which is quite strictly unforced) for the purpose of regulating the ebb and flow of massive amounts of humanity and to maintain levels of influx that are sustainable without overwhelming the domestic workforce or saturating certain sectors of labor. While it is true few citizens would seek employment in the fields plucking potatoes from the dirt, it is also true that only a mere 3-4% of the entire illegal immigrant population is employed in the agriculture industry. The large majority are employed in construction , service, hospitality, and culinary sectors. These are, in fact, the jobs working class Americans and legal immigrants have depended on for generations. Who is prepared to say there is no such thing as an American construction worker, chef, auto mechanic, or waitress? What jobs exactly does the educated class think poor Americans have been doing for the past century? This is what immigration law was designed to do..Allow a healthy influx of people with diverse labor skills at a rate that doesn't contribute to a rise in Citizen workers unemoyment rates. It was not designed to be mean, racist, draconian, or unfair. Immigration law is simply necessary on a planet populated by over seven billion people.
38
Why do they have these jobs? Because Americans hire them. The people doing the hiring make the choice. They can choose to hire Americans. They don't because it's cheaper not to. It's also illegal. If we crack down on the people doing the hiring, they won't hire illegals and people will voluntarily stop coming. No need to build a ridiculous wall. How do we know it will work? People stopped hiring during the recession and Mexicans stopped coming here.
4
I mean the job market is at 4%. Under obama who deported mostly immigrants with a criminal record and left those without a record mostly alone, and yet was able to lower the job market to 4%. I don't know but perhaps think about that?
Another armed force numbering in the tens of thousands under the control of a psychotic president who gives them unfettered discretion to challenge any one they please. Can we get an armed force who will protect us from our president and his administrative goons?
22
Looking at this from afar, I fail to see the problem. In most of Europe it is mandatory for everyone over 18 to carry a photo-ID. Any law enforcement officer has the right to request that someone shows this. Non-compliance may lead to further action, inability to produce such an ID will most likely result in the request to present oneself at a police office before a certain date.
The absence of a photo-ID obligation in the UK is the single most important reason for the unending flow of illegals across the EU. They are purposely refusing to register in any of the countries they pass through, which DO demand proof of identity, in order to reach the UK and 'disappear'. So, having mandatory photo-ID isn't really a negative thing.
For someone who war raised in this context, the oddness lies at the other side. The idea that I should be allowed to go somewhere and pretend I was someone else and enter into a legally binding relationship, such as seek employment, WITHOUT proving who I was, seems on the far edge of preposterous.
To come now to the matter at hand, as I understand it, what the new instructions at the DHS mean is that a number of executively mandated exceptions have been removed, and that the agents are now requested to apply the body of the law. What's wrong with that?
For sure, one can raise serious question about how the law defines illegal residency what the NYT so peculiarly calls 'undocumented', but that a wholly different matter.
The absence of a photo-ID obligation in the UK is the single most important reason for the unending flow of illegals across the EU. They are purposely refusing to register in any of the countries they pass through, which DO demand proof of identity, in order to reach the UK and 'disappear'. So, having mandatory photo-ID isn't really a negative thing.
For someone who war raised in this context, the oddness lies at the other side. The idea that I should be allowed to go somewhere and pretend I was someone else and enter into a legally binding relationship, such as seek employment, WITHOUT proving who I was, seems on the far edge of preposterous.
To come now to the matter at hand, as I understand it, what the new instructions at the DHS mean is that a number of executively mandated exceptions have been removed, and that the agents are now requested to apply the body of the law. What's wrong with that?
For sure, one can raise serious question about how the law defines illegal residency what the NYT so peculiarly calls 'undocumented', but that a wholly different matter.
14
Who can blame Mexican immigrants for seeking a better life and better opportunities in the United States. There isn’t a soul in the U.S. who would not do the same thing if the situation were reversed. The vast majority of these immigrants are hard-working virtuous people simply looking to improve their lot in life.
With that said, President Trump wants to build a 20-billion-dollar wall and hire 10,000 border patrol officers to “protect” us from the influx of illegal immigrants. Why not just hire an additional 10,000 ICE officers and have them visit employers in the U.S. who have hired illegals, fining them $1,000 or more for each illegal employee on their payroll. These employers are committing crimes as well; are they not? The illegal immigration problem would take care of itself in no time. This would be a good starting place if the U.S. “really, really” wanted to rid itself of the illegal immigration problem.
Additionally, building a wall between Mexico and the U.S. would leave a permanent visual scar on our great democracy, and would not serve to curtail illegal immigration or drug traffic in any significant way. It would serve as nothing but a trophy for our newly-elected president to point to whenever he wanted to stroke his ego and show us how wonderful he is. It is an ignorant solution to a complicated problem.
With that said, President Trump wants to build a 20-billion-dollar wall and hire 10,000 border patrol officers to “protect” us from the influx of illegal immigrants. Why not just hire an additional 10,000 ICE officers and have them visit employers in the U.S. who have hired illegals, fining them $1,000 or more for each illegal employee on their payroll. These employers are committing crimes as well; are they not? The illegal immigration problem would take care of itself in no time. This would be a good starting place if the U.S. “really, really” wanted to rid itself of the illegal immigration problem.
Additionally, building a wall between Mexico and the U.S. would leave a permanent visual scar on our great democracy, and would not serve to curtail illegal immigration or drug traffic in any significant way. It would serve as nothing but a trophy for our newly-elected president to point to whenever he wanted to stroke his ego and show us how wonderful he is. It is an ignorant solution to a complicated problem.
24
Those ICE agents will have to visit and fine a whole bunch of upper middle class Americans who pay illegals to clean, do landscaping and other such manual work. It's not corporations who hire those guys waiting for day labor outside Lowe's and Home Depot. They aren't standing out there every day for the fresh air, but because American homeowners and small businesses routinely hire them.
Well guess what: Everybody, including citizens and legal residents wants to better their life and their family's circumstances but that does not give one the right to violate the law. Being poor does not make one a criminal but being poor also does not give one the right to be a criminal and to violate the law.
Is working hard to improve your life & being virtuous a Legal Defense for, conspiring with human smugglers, possessing & using false govt. IDs, committing perjury on visa applications, engaging in identity theft, stealing food or money to feed their family, child abuse, or tax fraud, etc, etc? Legal residents who are caught violating these laws would be prosecuted & suffer the penalty for their crime(s) but you condone that illegal aliens should not face the penalty for their crimes? 14th Amendment- Equal Treatment under the law.
No matter how much alleged or supposed good illegal aliens might do for this country (which is doubtful considering that most have an average of a tenth grade education), the "end" never justifies the means.
Is working hard to improve your life & being virtuous a Legal Defense for, conspiring with human smugglers, possessing & using false govt. IDs, committing perjury on visa applications, engaging in identity theft, stealing food or money to feed their family, child abuse, or tax fraud, etc, etc? Legal residents who are caught violating these laws would be prosecuted & suffer the penalty for their crime(s) but you condone that illegal aliens should not face the penalty for their crimes? 14th Amendment- Equal Treatment under the law.
No matter how much alleged or supposed good illegal aliens might do for this country (which is doubtful considering that most have an average of a tenth grade education), the "end" never justifies the means.
1
During the campaign Trump talked about making eVerify mandatory. We'll see if he follows through with that.
A plausible guess on the direct cost of 10,000 more ICE employees = 10,000 * $100,000 = $1,000,000,000. That's $1 billion a year, every year. Considering all the other added costs of equipment, weapons, pension, etc, this number can easily double or triple.
I wonder how much marginal return do we get with these extra people. Or is the return even positive? A fiscal conservative would never approve this.
I wonder how much marginal return do we get with these extra people. Or is the return even positive? A fiscal conservative would never approve this.
12
It is putting people to work. And by doing so, it is putting more money out into the economy and making even more jobs. The billion dollars is not being thrown into the ocean.
5
Look at the welfare, school, crime and insurance costs of the people that we have not rounded up. For every illegal worker making $500/week we probably have one kid in school who doesn't speak english. So we have translators, and stress on the teachers. Then us parents have to buy supplies that go into a pool to be redistributed... Schools spend between 6-12k per student (in some insanely democrat areas, upwards of 20k). This stuff adds up. I'll pay more for tomatoes if my taxes drop and my kid gets more attention in school.
At least these are good jobs. So Avi your a statistical person, what is the cost of illegal immigrants in Tax Dollars, law enforcement, no benefits, education, no contributions to entitlements like unemployment, welfare, medical and the crimes they may commit. no car insurance or licenses, com on man lets be a little real there are 2 sides to the issue here.
This story purports an over zealous ICE that is sweeping up people like one big vacuum cleaner. It pines for the good old days under President Obama. This whole narrative is typical of the liberal glint as it regards illegal immigrants. This story cites just ten people caught in the net who were not criminals per se. Well, guess what, illegals don't wear signs. As a follow up, I'd like to see what happens to those ten people caught in the net.
I live in a city where the undocumented are generally sheltered, but exploited to death by employers who hold their status over their heads. There is no penalty for them. No stories about them. The ones held as hostages to greed.
I'm not concerned about the net being too broad. I'm concerned about the dispositions afterwards. And fair reporting requires that follow up.
I live in a city where the undocumented are generally sheltered, but exploited to death by employers who hold their status over their heads. There is no penalty for them. No stories about them. The ones held as hostages to greed.
I'm not concerned about the net being too broad. I'm concerned about the dispositions afterwards. And fair reporting requires that follow up.
16
"We're trusted again". I don't think those words mean what you think they mean. With a Russian poodle in the Oval Office, you might want to be careful about becoming too excited by, or too closely identified with, the looming disaster. You may find that "trust" shattered.
8
What's comes after the roundups? Forced labor camps? God save us from this madman.
25
"maneuvers and have to pass seven written examinations and a physical-fitness test that includes an obstacle course" .... Seven tests? What could they possibly have seven tests for guys with guns and handcuffs arresting people? Is there an examination on the Constitution? An obstacle course - woah! Some of these ICE guys are so over weight, they would have trouble walking a flight of stairs. Good thing they have all those SUVs to carry them around. These billions of dollars might be better spent supporting welfare programs in Mexico so people would have incentive to stay there.
9
Who knew that enforcing existing laws was so radical?
It's about freaking time.
It's about freaking time.
39
And the excuse will be: I just did what I was told to do.
19
Ah yes - the Nuremburg defence!
Since when does a law enforcement Officer/Agent need an "excuse" to enforc the laws?
1
Why was it moral to pass these laws, but immoral to enforce them? This issue reveals a lot of hypocrisy beyond that. Those who seem committed to open borders have shown no care for immigrants once here. Illegals get stuck in the worst jobs we have, they are subject to abuse and cannot make use of police and education services. Graduation rates for ELL students are tragically low. We have done almost nothing for immigrants after they arrive, and in fact leave them to survive on their own in crime, poverty, and ignorance. I wish all those who protest any immigration enforcement would spend that time helping those who are already here. It is one thing to paint a poster. It is quite another to actually support an immigrant.
18
Why was it moral to pass these laws, but immoral to enforce them?
=====================
Strange reasoning, isn't it?
=====================
Strange reasoning, isn't it?
1
I am surprised there is no psychological exam for ICE agents as part of the hiring process. 90% of police precincts use them according to some estimates, and for good reason. Power corrupts. I'm some what middle of the road on immigration and do believe that we are a nation of laws to be respected, but we're dealing with people at the end of the day - children, families, the elderly - whether or not they have broken the law. A lack of psych test seems a huge hole in the screening process to me. How do we guarantee we don't have a force of cruel bullies out there, licking their lips at power and control?
19
Prospective agents have to take a lie detector exam and "The AP reported that 2 out of 3 applicants fail the exam." So it's not going to be easy to hire new people.
http://www.npr.org/2017/02/23/516712980/trumps-plan-to-hire-15-000-borde...
http://www.npr.org/2017/02/23/516712980/trumps-plan-to-hire-15-000-borde...
1
In Bridgeport, CT on Thursday we had an immigrant from El Salvador with a felony on his record who was deported in 2013, come back and kill the mother of his child and almost kill another person. Yet our Governor Dan Malloy and Mayor of the Capital city Hartford Luke Bronin tell local police to not cooperate with ICE and that immigrants are not a problem. Connecticut is broke and we are setting up sanctuary cities like there is no tomorrow,
35
Connecticut is broke and we are setting up sanctuary cities like there is no tomorrow,
==================
Malloy and others are putting themselves in legal jeopardy:
8 USC 1324 Bringing in and harboring certain aliens
A) Any person who—
(iii) knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that an alien has come to, entered, or remains in the United States in violation of law, conceals, harbors, or shields from detection, or attempts to conceal, harbor, or shield from detection, such alien in any place, including any building or any means of transportation;
(v)
(I) engages in any conspiracy to commit any of the preceding acts, or
(II) aids or abets the commission of any of the preceding acts,
shall be punished as provided in subparagraph (B).
(B) A person who violates subparagraph (A) shall, for each alien in respect to whom such a violation occurs—
(ii) in the case of a violation of subparagraph (A)(ii), (iii), (iv), or (v)(II), be fined under title 18, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both;
==================
Malloy and others are putting themselves in legal jeopardy:
8 USC 1324 Bringing in and harboring certain aliens
A) Any person who—
(iii) knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that an alien has come to, entered, or remains in the United States in violation of law, conceals, harbors, or shields from detection, or attempts to conceal, harbor, or shield from detection, such alien in any place, including any building or any means of transportation;
(v)
(I) engages in any conspiracy to commit any of the preceding acts, or
(II) aids or abets the commission of any of the preceding acts,
shall be punished as provided in subparagraph (B).
(B) A person who violates subparagraph (A) shall, for each alien in respect to whom such a violation occurs—
(ii) in the case of a violation of subparagraph (A)(ii), (iii), (iv), or (v)(II), be fined under title 18, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both;
1
In my view, Trump's Executive Order violates the Due Process Clause of the Constitution. Its wording is so broad it grants ICE too much discretion in determining what is actionable conduct under the Order and then granting ICE overly broad authority to enforce its own ad hoc determinations. In other words, Trump's Executive Order allows ICE to play "judge and jury" in the field of law enforcement.
I have worked for U.S. Customs, and worked with Immigration, the Border Patrol, the DEA, the FBI, federal marshals, and Interpol. I am an attorney admitted to the U.S. Supreme Court Bar. If this Executive Order gets challenged in court, as it should, I believe it would be struck down as being "void for vagueness" in violation of the Due Process Clause of the U.S. Constitution.
I have worked for U.S. Customs, and worked with Immigration, the Border Patrol, the DEA, the FBI, federal marshals, and Interpol. I am an attorney admitted to the U.S. Supreme Court Bar. If this Executive Order gets challenged in court, as it should, I believe it would be struck down as being "void for vagueness" in violation of the Due Process Clause of the U.S. Constitution.
19
mB, President Trump borrowed that language on conduct which is a crime directly from the statute. Which has been upheld numerous times in federal court. It's why you're not seeing the usual suspects rushing to friendly judges in the Ninth Circuit on this one.
All he's doing is reordering prosecutorial priorities, a matter squarely for the Executive Branch.
All he's doing is reordering prosecutorial priorities, a matter squarely for the Executive Branch.
9
There is no due process for foreign nationals here illegally. Sorry. Constitutional RIGHTS are for CITIZENS.
3
What EO are you referring to? The temporary travel ban or allowing ICE to enforce the laws for which they swore an oath to uphold? I don't believe any "due process" has been denied as a matter of practice or violatig Constitutional rights. If anything, ICE, CBP & USCIS bends over backwards to not violate an alien's rights. I was employed by the Fed Marshals, USCS & ICE and worked with DOJ, Interpol & just about every agency that has a criminal investigation arm.
And ICE/CBP/USCIS are not making any more ad hoc determinations than any other law enforcement officers do every day. If you don't like the laws then work to change them.
And ICE/CBP/USCIS are not making any more ad hoc determinations than any other law enforcement officers do every day. If you don't like the laws then work to change them.
1
"Are your papers in order?" is no longer a cold war joke.
9
They are simply enforcing the laws. If you don't like it change the laws.
21
Here we go....... ICE is begining to be cast as the enemy. And we will soon have the heart breaking stories everyday of illegal immigrants forced to obey the law.
32
ICE and CBP have a terrible reputation in the legal community and with regular law enforcement. There will be appalling true stories.
Trump is a fool, badly advised. In the legal community ICE and BBP have long been a byword for recklessness, excess, abuse, lawlessness, impunity and frequent borderline criminality (18 USC Section 1001 (Federal false statement act is routinely broken for example.) a little more awareness and he'd have been warned of the danger of letting them "off the leash." Their excesses have long been the subject of shocked discussions amongst lawyers. There will be outrages, maybe worse, and Trump will be blamed for things he did not even contemplate happening (not that he cares on a personal level.)
One point rarely made in the Sanctuary Cities debate. one reason is, as is said is to secure community cooperation with law enforcement. But one hears another reason quietly - police just don't like working with ICE and BBP, they see them as reckless, over aggressive and thuggish. And it's not like the police have always a perfect reputation in that regard.
One point rarely made in the Sanctuary Cities debate. one reason is, as is said is to secure community cooperation with law enforcement. But one hears another reason quietly - police just don't like working with ICE and BBP, they see them as reckless, over aggressive and thuggish. And it's not like the police have always a perfect reputation in that regard.
12
Links to examples of violations of 18USC 1001?
And what is "BBP"? Did you mean CBP?
And what is "BBP"? Did you mean CBP?
To summarize: don't look for the violent offenders; grab the low hanging fruit (goodbye, Granny!); and use the available manpower to run the numbers up. Oh, and one other thing: while you're making America great for violent offenders again, better hope Trump's shoe polish has a tasty tang.
11
What happens to the people who got caught? Where do they go? If many of these people who came here illegally from Central America (obviously without passports), to where do we send these people back? Are we building massive additional prisons at tax payer's money to keep these people indefinitely? It appears that the private companies involved in prison businesses will be the only beneficiaries of this as far as I can see and our loss as tax payers.
10
They are returned to their home country. ICE has been unable to identify an illegal alien's home country in extremely few cases
1
Imagine if the scenario were taking into custody all the murderers who had escaped in Chicago. The Times would be wailing about targeting blacks and breaking up families.
After eight years of lawlessness breaking the law seems to have become a right to the progressives.
After eight years of lawlessness breaking the law seems to have become a right to the progressives.
13
I am detained, searched, felt-up, wanded, x-rayed, scanned, must show my "papers", take off my belt and shoes and empty my pockets every time I enter an airport. As a law abiding citizen, I don't like it at all. I am sorry if those who HAVE violated our laws are inconvenienced also.
17
I've seen arguments as of late that the administration should create a "Trump Doctrine" similar to the one employed by George W. Bush. Seems to me he already has one: the differential between what he claims in public speeches (both during and after his campaign), and what actually transpires.
Claim: "We're deporting 'bad hombres' and preventing them from returning."
Reality: Nah, let's stop focusing our efforts on bona fide gang members and criminals, and just deport as many people as possible en masse, including women and children.
Claim: "I banned residents of seven majority-Muslim countries from entering the U.S. to keep out 'bad dudes.'"
Reality: As reported today by The Times, Homeland analysis found no correlation between citizenship of a certain country and likelihood of engaging in terrorism.
Claim: "No one on my team has ever associated with Russian intelligence officers, and the 'failing' New York Times is reporting FAKE NEWS!"
Reality: Their interactions have been confirmed by a dozen or more senior-intelligence officers to The Times and Washington Post, and the FBI is actively investigating all of it.
Those of us who've been paying attention -- to actual news sources, not Breitbart and their ilk -- figured out Trump's con game a long time ago: using bold, mostly false rhetoric to obfuscate what's *really* going on -- in this case deportations en masse of people guilty of no other "crime" than not being born on U.S. soil.
And this is only the beginning. Sigh.
Claim: "We're deporting 'bad hombres' and preventing them from returning."
Reality: Nah, let's stop focusing our efforts on bona fide gang members and criminals, and just deport as many people as possible en masse, including women and children.
Claim: "I banned residents of seven majority-Muslim countries from entering the U.S. to keep out 'bad dudes.'"
Reality: As reported today by The Times, Homeland analysis found no correlation between citizenship of a certain country and likelihood of engaging in terrorism.
Claim: "No one on my team has ever associated with Russian intelligence officers, and the 'failing' New York Times is reporting FAKE NEWS!"
Reality: Their interactions have been confirmed by a dozen or more senior-intelligence officers to The Times and Washington Post, and the FBI is actively investigating all of it.
Those of us who've been paying attention -- to actual news sources, not Breitbart and their ilk -- figured out Trump's con game a long time ago: using bold, mostly false rhetoric to obfuscate what's *really* going on -- in this case deportations en masse of people guilty of no other "crime" than not being born on U.S. soil.
And this is only the beginning. Sigh.
18
I wonder when people understand just how dangerous this policy, given time, will transform our nation into a all inclusive gulag.
These walls may end up keeping us in instead of their stated purpose.
These walls may end up keeping us in instead of their stated purpose.
12
Far less dangerous than the OBAMA era policy of NOT enforcing the laws that Congress had passed, and doing end runs around them. Of creating "law" such as DACA and DAPA that actually rewards illegal aliens for breaking the laws that a million LEGAL immigrants follow each year.
6
You mean the policy we had in place for the last 250 years?
6
Obama deported some 2.5 million.
Change the laws if you don't like them, don't blame people who are hired to enforce them.