The Retraining Paradox

Feb 23, 2017 · 66 comments
shoelace (California)
When I interview for tech jobs the managers do a one to one comparison of my skills to the job requirements. When there are 2 or 3 requirements that I am missing they are disappointed. Yet the jobs are very specific and every company has different software and hardware. If I worked with HP equipment and they have Dell, they act like it's a problem. They see me as a fixed set of skills and incapable of learning. It is very difficult to get across that I like to learn and adapt to new environments. I enjoy the challenge and sense of accomplishment. When I explain this to them, they attribute this to puffery.
Joschka (Taipei, Taiwan)
Just from the teaser (lede?) I can tell you that Paul Krugman has debunked this myth. If employers were having this problem, wages would be rising for those unfilled jobs. There is no evidence, per Krugman, of such a rise in wages!
Patricia (WA)
WAIT - Hillary Clinton was proposing a well-funded retraining program specifically to help coal miners? THAT certainly didn't get much play in the "out of touch elitist" narrative where she was so caught up in "identity politics" that she "neglected" the needs of struggling blue-collar workers! Hmm - too bad we're just finding out now that she actually had a plan, huh?
Ize (NJ)
Little industry outside of coal production and coal related businesses exists in much of coal country. Just as this article outlined, Ms. Clinton, whose campaign plan included shutting down coal mines, did not convince miners they should vote for her to get fired then retrained for jobs that do not exist near their homes.
Bert Love (Murphy, NC)
Consider an overly simplified world in which six months of training is needed for a given job but the skills are obsolete after four years and the cycle begins again. Perhaps some combination of public, new equipment manufacturer, employer and individual funding could provide this retraining. Alternatively, similarly funded after work continuing education style training could fill this need.
Scott (Albany)
Time for the Republican Congress to put up or shut up. It has worked in the Carolinas.
gaston (Tucson)
I teach adults who are looking for higher-paying and more satisfying work, in all kinds of industries and government agencies. The ones who are succeeding are already bright and inquisitive, and are determined to get to their goals. Unfortunately the students who decide to continue their education because they are just 'unhappy' or out of work are often very negative about life and are easily frustrated by the work required in the courses. Losing a job or being in one that depresses you is tough - and finding the mental strength to get out of that dark blue mindset is even harder. But future success depends greatly on optimism and self-confidence, and very few training programs can instill those qualities.
Bryn (Brooklyn)
The conundrum of matching job seekers with available jobs sounds very much like the same issue that Match.com and other dating apps address, especially if you add the "qualifications" filters.
MWR (Ny)
This piece is right on. I hire (or try to find) applicants for skilled positions being vacated by longtime employees, in addition to searching continually for talent in newer, tech positions that are being created faster than the supply of skilled labor can fill. Those of us in the HR fields see this all the time - sizable numbers of underemployed and unemployed workers but our open positions go unfilled for months at a time, sometimes longer, because of a qualified applicant deficit. The problem with government-funded skilled-jobs training is usually that it is chasing after a political objective rather than real-world demand. So-called green-jobs training is one great example of that - it's much easier for a politician to fund a training program for windmill manufacturing than gun manufacturing, even if demand for the latter is going unmet. They key, as the author here correctly observes, is to work with industry - even politically unpopular industry - to identify demand positions and then design training programs to serve that demand. And yes, employees should and will help fund these efforts. One additional note - even less-skilled jobs can be hard to fill because many applicants lack even the most basic skills for job searching and employment. That is where high school programs can help, and should, to prepare all students for even minimum wage, entry- level jobs. It starts there.
Joschka (Taipei, Taiwan)
Have you tried offering higher starting salaries? Krugman has concluded that this isn't happening to any great extent!
A. Davey (Portland)
When I graduated from law school 35 years ago, there were no jobs. There was no "retraining." There was only downward socioeconomic mobility until I finally landed my first real law job 20 years after passing the bar.

Where do I apply for a tuition refund?
Liberal Old White Guy (Washington)
In the early 90s companies decided that the purpose of their business was to "maximize shareholder value". Not by coincidence the shareholders of companies happen to be the richest Americans and the top managers became large shareholders. The result has been a relentless march to the lowest possible benefit to workers. No expense is too small to cut in this pursuit. Training new employees? Too expensive.
Don Endresen (Spokane, WA)
Seems to me that a lot of the problem in the folks that Mr Trump was talking to is that they live in geographically undesirable areas for the kinds of jobs that are available. In order to ultimately solve the problem, we're going to have to bite the bullet and provide skills evaluation and relocation assistance to where the training and jobs are. It may well involve a subsidy effort with individual guidance and/or coaching to ensure success. It will help resolve the employment dilemma, but more importantly, it will provide these folks the ability to feel like productive members of society again.
Naomi E. Dennis (Keasbey, NJ)
They don't want to move to where the jobs are at.
dennisbmurphy (Grand Rapids, MI)
companies have no loyalty to their employees anymore and don't want to invest in them.

the solution if they can't find a ride employees is to train internally but apparently that cost the bottom line
hen3ry (New York)
I find it ironic that we're encouraging students to major in the STEM fields or get certificates to work in a STEM field. All that's being said now is what I heard 40 years ago just as I was graduating from high school. As it happened I was interested in science. I wanted to be a physician. Failing that I wanted to work in cancer research. I majored in biology with a minor in chemistry. I was told that I'd be drowning in job offers. I graduated from college in 1980 and there were no job offers before or just after I graduated. It took me 9 months to get an entry level job in research. Eighteen years later I left the field.

The entire time I worked in the sciences, except for one employer, I received no training, no push to get an advanced degree, no credit for my contributions to the research (and yes, even research assistants contribute ideas, do the statistics, and set up the experiments), and was treated like a widget. One company, now well known, fired a bunch of us because of money problems, but never rehired us once it had the money back.

I retrained to work in IT. But even that's a problem because I now have more than 15 years experience in IT. The bottom line in America is that no one, not our government or the business sector has any interest in investing in us as employees. They expect us to train ourselves while they export jobs or bring in foreigners as they claim, falsely, that Americans can't do the jobs.
Ellen Liversidge (San Diego CA)
When was it that "we" decided to do away with vocational tracks in high school, determining that "everyone" needed to go to college? Such programs could be re-tooled to more accurately apply to the nowaday. Germany has been making such determinations with its students for years and years. Oh, and paying graduates of such programs decent wages.
Richard Sheppard (Alabama)
Not only that, but we're making our college degrees less and less valuable in the job market since supply is growing faster than demand. We need FEWER people going to college, not MORE.
Ize (NJ)
I watched incredulously in New Jersey as the federal government paid big money to train inner city people, with no construction experience, how to install insulation and caulking to make existing houses more "energy efficient". (Program sounded nice.) It did not lead to real jobs. Selling people future savings from insulation upgrades is complicated. Every contractor I knew had several unemployed workers available with the skills to retrofit insulation and more.
TexasRN (Houston)
Some of the comments below are disturbing. If there are private public partnerships as described in the article that benefit these graduates as well as the businesses, how is this bad? This does not sound like a scam. Who on earth would know that there is demand in the composite manufacturing? You would look at that job opening and discard it because you do not have the skills. This matches those that need a job with skills building. Its not that complicated a concept but needs an infrastructure to make it work because it won't happen on its own...businesses with very tight budgets can't afford to have such robust training programs.
M R (NH)
Everyone has an opinion but few are willing to see for themselves what our neighbors and strangers in nearby towns are really facing. Get involved! Visit your area community colleges and talk with the students there. I teach at Great Bay CC. We have some of the most dedicated, caring people who want to see lives changed for the better. Come visit, see for yourselves. Then your comments will be more than mere words and sophistry.
S. Hail (PA)
Common sense tells us that not everyone is interested in and will be successful in computer-/technology-related jobs. Even China, the current economic powerhouse, has problems finding jobs for all her college graduates, even the ones with technical degrees. The fact is that no one has a practical and permanent solution to the unemployment and underemployment, especially of the underclass of the world. Why can’t people who want to work find jobs? Hungry people need food. Homeless people need shelter. Sick people need medicines. Roads and bridges need to be maintained and fixed when broken. Somehow, the free market economy does not consider these priorities, mainly because there is not enough profit to serve these markets. Profit motives drive the economy. Products and services only exist to serve those who can pay. But this can all change if we replace the profit directive with a universal lifetime labor employment mandate. If businesses exist to employ all people, then all the people’s physical needs can be taken care of and fulfilled, and the unemployment problem will be solved.
Richard Sheppard (Alabama)
And how do you plan to convince employers to go along with that and not simply go out of business? If a business is not profitable, it shuts down. And if a business shuts down thanks to your proposed plan, guess what? Everyone who worked there is out of work, and you have more unemployed people than before. Businesses are not charities, and unlike the government they cannot spend more money than they take in.
NotKafka (Houston,TX)
I'm a 51 year old who had a successful career in IT and suddenly found himself among the long term unemployed. I definitely think that retraining can help (and in the past I have invested in my own training heavily). But now I can't really identify what skills to invest in, and it's impractical for me to enroll in any program that lasts longer than 6 months. More importantly, it's hard for me to understand skills in demand locally.
Jim m Roberts (Alexandria VA)
Your compassion makes for an impractical solution.

Impossible to provide jobs for every American much less every work-capable person on this planet. There are already too many of both

Better if we produced humans for needed skills. Very science fiction but soon will be possible
Colenso (Cairns)
Sadly, retraining ain't always enough, as I have discovered first hand. Usually, unless we're directing a computer driven robot, we also have to have the necessary manual dexterity, which not all of us have. For example, when I went to night school to try to learn how to weld, I found it much harder than I expected -- both gas and electric arc. I did make some progress but it was very slow. It was quite disheartening to discover that I just wasn't very good at it.

Likewise for many other crafts. I can work in many materials including wood, steel, aluminium alloys and plastics. I can build walls and fences, but I know that the work I do when I work at a reasonable pace is just not that great. If I slow right down, of course, then my quality improves somewhat.

As I think Winston Churchill said, most of us can lay bricks slowly and well, or lay bricks quickly and badly. It takes a skilled bricklayer to lay bricks quickly and well.
Maloyo (New York)
Most of the people who comment on articles like this think that education and/or retraining are the answers to everything. They really think that everyone should go to college. Those who just can't, should become plumbers, carpenters or electricians. The fact is that a lot more people are going to be cashiers, or clerks, or whatever the 21st century versions of those level jobs are. They may need more skills to do them, but these need to be taught in high school or maybe community college and by the employers since most people can learn, but most are not going to go back to school for a year or two every decade. If the jobs pay a living wage and people are treated decently, you'll have more loyalty if that's what you want (most modern employers don't want it, in my experience).
Joel (Cotignac)
This article demonstrates how training targeted by a cooperative effort of government and industry can be one key in helping people become employable. It's never a perfect process. If a bomb hits it's target 25% of the time we call it a 'smart' bomb, but a training program with an 50% success is often seen as a failure. And yet, it remains the most cost effective way of preparing people for jobs of the future - retraining all the layer off coal workers for 2 years would probably cost less than a week or two of war.
Louisa Chiang (Washington DC)
Please do more stories like this. People who are hurting are attracted to Trump because they feel neglected.
Perspective (Bangkok)
This is rich. The private sector outsources training to meet its needs to the government and passes the cost to us taxpayers.
Cary mom (Raleigh)
There is no disconnect. If you pay them appropriately for area cost of living and educational investment they will come. Some small employers might struggle but everyone else is just complaining because they can't get their workforce cheap enough.
LIChef (East Coast)
Those of us in the labor force for at least 40 years don't find this problem all that hard to understand. That's because we can still remember the days when employers -- not taxpayers or jobseekers -- footed the bill for the training of their own workers. We can remember when an entry-level job might just be enough to support a small family and not the measly $16 an hour paid to one of the trainees cited in your story. We can remember when really good performance might get you a double-digit annual raise or a meaningful promotion and not the 1-2% -- or nothing -- offered today. We can remember when the duties of three people were not crammed into a single job. We can remember when it was rare to be contacted by your employer on weekends or evenings, unless there was a crisis. We can remember when employers paid a fair share of their workers' health insurance. We can remember when senior managements were more focused on their customers and workers than on dazzling (or bamboozling) Wall Street analysts. We can remember when our CEOs were well-off, but didn't need to pull down $20 million a year or more while the people who gave them that prosperity were barely squeaking by. And we can remember when companies treated their employees as valuable assets and not as garbage.

If you peel back the layers of these unfilled jobs, you'll find that many of them aren't as attractive as the employers make them out to be. It just takes a little historical perspective.
ebmem (Memphis, TN)
You have also forgotten that those 10% annual wage increases were in a 12% annual inflation environment. Inflation had it's advantages, in that if you could scrape together a down payment on a house, you would get over being house poor in a couple of years as your wages grew but your housing cost didn't.
DoubleRider (New York)
The basic problem is companies are unwilling to train people for their specific jobs, then don't pay enough so the workers who are trained don't leave for better offers. They don't factor in the cost of a replacement worker when deciding how cheaply they can retain a current worker.

Giving people raises on a regular basis goes a long way toward employee retention, but how many times do you see people working for just above minimum wage?
Jan (NJ)
Texas gives signing bonus for badly needed B.S./R.N. nurses in cities where they need ICU/Critical care nurses, etc. Many jobs (especially in healthcare) need advanced degrees. When we have immigrants, illegals, and uneducated Americans, expect the problem to persist in many fields.
Asdf (Chicago)
I've had a few American manufacturers as clients. I am not saying this is the truth, but this is the evil management's perspective.

-There is a belief that there are fake disability claims. Low paying jobs don't pay much more than some disability payouts.

-No one wants any hard labor jobs. It's very hard to fill jobs working in a kiln even if pay is high for blue collar jobs. Everyone wants to work in an air conditioned facility where you just press a button over and over all day.

-People aren't qualified for the more technical manufacturing jobs that are more than repetitive elbow grease and require technical skills. In the US, it's cool to hate math.
JEG (New York, New York)
Organizations today do not simply want intelligent, hard-working employees with broad academic and professional experience in the area in which they will be employed, they are expecting to find individuals with years of experience in highly specialized areas. Today, it is not atypical for organizations hold positions open for a year or more, rather than hire and train someone to perform the role. That forces employees to use their own time and resources to advance their skill level, often by taking time out of the workforce to earn additional degrees or professional credentials. Lost wages and expenses make that a costly proposition, but could be worth while if organizations compensated workers for those hard to obtain skills. What is so problematic, is that organizations want to pay these highly specialized employees on the same scale as their more generic counterparts from years ago. That is the equivalent of asking for a limited edition, handmade Swiss watch, but demanding to pay the cost of a Casio digital watch because both are watches.
EW (Glen Cove, NY)
The Stock Market demands results on a quarterly basis, and most CEO's earn enough that they only last a few years then can retire. Why expend resources on training that will begin to pay off a few years from today? Changing corporate behavior with tax incentives is tricky and not currently in fashion anyway. Wall Street is doing fine, for now, so they're not going to fix this anytime soon. It's not good.
John (Los Angeles)
Excellent article, but one question: are there now ZERO examples of companies that provide on the job training?

It seems like the fastest, easiest way to get workers to believe in the promise of retraining is to hire them up front and invest in their development, not to ask them to undertake 6-24 months of retraining just for the promise of an interview.

Companies can probably write off in-house training expenses just like they already do with their contributions to these complicated partnerships with local community colleges, so why is on the job training completely off the table?

What was so bad about an apprenticeship model where the trainees actually get paid to learn new skills?
ebmem (Memphis, TN)
There are several companies in the area that need skilled employees. If employer 1 took someone off the street, spent six months training them, what would prevent employer 2 from poaching that employee six months later?

The employees with six month certificates have established that they are trainable. And it's not as if they are productive workers on day one. There was a time that an employer could hire a high school graduate and be comfortable that they could read write and cipher, but that is no longer the case.
dennisbmurphy (Grand Rapids, MI)
well said
Richard Sheppard (Alabama)
Unless you're in California, the employer could just throw in a temporary non-compete clause to prevent such an occurence. Problem solved.
PLH Crawford (Golden Valley. Minnesota)
Newsflash! Excessive Immigration does reduce the number of lower class jobs for natives and rate of pay. People in the lower echelons struggle to compete when there is an exodus of manufacturing jobs among others. Real scientific studies have shown it over and over again.
Truth777 (./)
Employers can't fill jobs because they don't want to pay correctly. I've been shocked lately at how low companies want to pay for a job that is really three different fields.
Madeline Conant (Midwest)
Could someone please tell high schools what they need to be doing to prepare their non-college bound students for some of these job openings? Do principals need to be out beating the bushes to make alliances with individual companies? We have so-called "career centers" which are supposed to be preparing high school kids for jobs, but some of the career centers don't seem to be doing anything. High schools need help and guidance, especially smaller high schools. We need to re-build vocational training within the high school curriculum. What are the classes high schools should be offering? Help!!
David Neuschulz (Chatham, NJ)
Has anybody done a comparison of what high-level managers say about obtaining skilled workers versus what line-level managers say? I think there would be some real surprises in that comparison -- and a lot of potential for insight.
Andrew C (Fort Lauderdale)
Trump promises his followers that he will get their old jobs back where they live. Note how different that is from retraining and adapting to a new reality of manufacturing jobs involving new skills.
gherson (Stamford, CT)
Kerri U "had conflicts with her supervisors and lasted just over a year in the job [...] her house went into foreclosure. Kerri U also calls the experience “one of the biggest heartbreaks I’ve ever gone through.” Can Kerri or the author be more specific about what happened please?
K.S. (New York)
There is some screwy logic in this article. Companies don't want to train workers because they are worried that competitors will make a better offer? Don't we call that the free market? And shouldnt' we let market forces put companies back into the mindset that they are investing for the long term when they hire and train employees? Why do we expect the worker to take on debt or the tax payer to subsidize the company? "But the rules have changed--employers and employees have to be "flexible." That kind of reasoning is just special pleading: any company at any time period would love to be involved in such a scheme.
gherson (Stamford, CT)
Agree. But as to the logic question in your 2nd sentence, I think it is that it's cheaper to hire a skilled worker at the outset than to pay for both 1) training (in $ and employee time) and 2) the increased salary to then retain those workers.
In my experience, an employer can mitigate the risk of losing investment in a employee through employee loss by requiring that employees trained on the employer's dime stay a year after training. (Instead of attempting a clawback, the employee's last two weeks of salary can be forfeit.)
MWR (NY)
Skilled employee retention is a huge challenge for employees, and the problem is exacerbated by two compounding influences: first, culturally, the idea of spending an entire career with one employer is foreign to millennials; and second (perhaps contributing to the first), with no defined benefit plan (pension) employers have lost an historically effective retention tool. There are substitutes, but most are portable and less generous in the long run. So employees job-hop, increasing employer risk (and therefore cost) of on the job training. And correct, that is the free labor market at work. But note that a lack of job training benefits the employees who have the sought-after skills - scarcity drives up value; the few command and receive higher wages, and income polarization grows.
Grace (Portland)
I see people doing jobs all the time that I can imagine need a different kind of education background than standard college. Who maintains all the digital-electro-mechanical devices that can surround a hospital bed, for instance? We live in a very materially complex society. I imagine high school and community college programs where math, English and problem-solving are taught in real-life contexts (not necessarily in students' exact target fields but in representative but real contexts.) Word problems can be illustrated and animated on computers, but math and English tasks (write an e-mail describing a technical problem) could also be worked out at a community college shop table. This type of education might indeed fit more closely to ways people actually teach and learn, and as such would be more effective than academic learning aimed at technical skill. The question is: is society willing to support education that will train people to hold many different practical jobs throughout their work lives?
MollyT (Washington)
I suppose I'm being churlish if I suggest that if he'd majored in Computer Engineering instead of Communications he'd have been pulling down a good salary starting with the day after he graduated. but that would have required a lot more effort for those four years.
linda gies (chicago)
A lot of us don't major in tech fields because we haven't been successful in either math or science. Why try to succeed in a subject you don't understand?
Maloyo (New York)
Not everybody is cut out to be an engineer. I'm good although not a wiz at math, never had any issue with it. But I tried "computer programming" in the early 80s and I sucked at it. After a year I realized that it just was going to happen. Not everybody can do every thing.
sgu_knw (Colorado)
Yes it does sound like the government funded/industry coordinated retraining programs you describe have had some limited success.

But in the Great Bay program you describe only half of the 170 trained got jobs. This program has wasted the time and money of 85 people. 85 people who are now worse off, more deeply in debt,still unemployed and with skills no one wants. How is that a success?

In my experience most of jobs created by retraining programs are for the people doing the "retraining" alone. Employers, if any, then cherry pick from the people subjected to these programs and hire few. Further once hired, the newly employed are subject to being fired at will when dim-witted managers run their firms into the ground.

What state and federal governments could do to help the unemployed is actually enforce existing labor and job discrimination laws against these greedy and lazy employers. Maybe even strengthen existing regulations. Get rid of the H1B program all together for example. Bring the hammer down on employers who discriminate against even highly qualified older workers, disabled workers and other excluded minority populations.

But this isn't going to happen, is it?
Wordsworth from Wadsworth (<br/>)
I applaud this retraining program in composites for producing skilled labor for high value added manufacturing. This is the kind of well-considering training, closely aligned with industry, that our country needs. It sounds a little like what they do in Germany.

I also applaud the students engaged in this, trying to change and do better. Mr. Dean Kandilakis, a well educated man, would seem to have insight into the stress of changing his identity. Perhaps the students could use psychological support as well.

These people should be rewarded with a good new life.
Mark (Columbia, Maryland)
The free market is cruel. Nobody's job is safe. I know plenty of Ph.D.s in STEM subjects who are begging for jobs as high school teachers. Training does not protect you from the law of supply and demand, nor does it protect your from new technologies that allow low-skilled workers to do your job. Your employer may be happy with the job you are doing, but he his not happy to pay you. The CEO of a major company (I forget whom), said the ideal employee is a temp, someone you can hire for ten minutes and then fire. Obviously he was exaggerating to make a point, but it is a scary point. Blue collar workers who are suffering from modernity should take a bit of comfort knowing they are not alone.
Bernice Glenn (<br/>)
Older workers also suffer from "modernity." It is not only the need for retraining people for new work conditions. Older workers who have been let go or laid off also find it difficult to find work, on the basis that they are not up to snuff on the new technologies, the new sales techniques, the new whatevers. If you are over fifty and need to find new employment, even updated training does not always help.
Maloyo (New York)
Then the world is going to be in a lot of trouble. There are way too many people on earth to bring back feudalism, even if the eight richest people on earth have as much wealth as the bottom half.
Jowett (Atlanta)
You have to admit, looking at a screen all the time is depressing.
Stuck in Cali (los angeles)
Other states have had the same problem with steel mill workers They were trained in medical technology,but did not feel it manly enough.
Maloyo (New York)
That's a different problem and one I have little sympathy for (I am female).
Scott (Chicago)
This sounds like public money financing private industries who refuse to train their workers. If there is a need for workers, and they can't wait two years, and are receiving $580 million contracts from the Army, something is wrong with that.

How many people can afford or are able to even take 6 months of training without pay? I'm currently in trade school, doing night classes 3 nights a week and I don't see how many people I know could realistically do it and pass. I'm lucky to have a steady 9-5 and time to study on my 4 free nights.

To me, the fact that The Great Bay is unable to lean on these companies in way that benefits workers, and instead is feeding them tons of public money is the more pressing political problem.
Nikki (Islandia)
It is heartening to see a greater emphasis on actual demand in newer retraining programs. Far too many of these programs have been little better than scams, training people for jobs that didn't exist -- as the article pointed out, giving them skills that were just as obsolete as their old ones. Demand-driven training is a start, although there are a few caveats:
1. The actual job placement of graduates must be monitored annually, because eventually every field will reach saturation point where there is a glut of qualified applicants.
2. Applied technology skills training must be paired with job readiness training that prepares the applicant mentally for the work world -- things like the social skills to interact with coworkers and resolve conflicts successfully, some measure of intercultural competence, work ethic, and realistic expectations. As Ms. Uyeno's experience illustrates, if an employee lacks these skills, they are unlikely to be successful even if they have excellent practical skills.
3. The other part of the employment problem is the need for assistance in relocation. A program to feed employers in a booming area of New Hampshire does nothing for unemployed workers in Flint, MI or Wheeling, WV. If you are stuck with a house that is underwater, relocation isn't an option. There needs to be some program that will financially support relocating to an area with greater opportunities or many will remain left out.
Claudia (NEW HAMPSHIRE)
The problem, often, is not that industry cannot find well trained workers for their new high tech jobs. The problem is that industry is unwilling to pay workers enough to make it worth their while to take the jobs offered at the wage offered.
The other problem is that industry is simply too inept at analysis in the area of what constitutes qualifications for a particular job. The hiring side often simply does not want to do the hard work of thinking but simply says, "Okay, for this job you need a Masters in international relations" or a PhD in nursing, without actually looking at what those degrees mean or at what the job really requires. Stupid in. Stupid out.