I guess from the NYT editorial board pov "American values" include NOT enforcing laws?
59
NYT makes such a big deal out of proportional punishment. I ask, how proportional was the crime? Not! it was full violation off the law, deserving of full punishment.
37
These actions sure do not make me feel safe. They do not reflect the America which has been an inspiration to the world. They reflect the paranoia of a disturbed, narcissistic, self-absorbed individual who is a far greater threat to America than any other terrorist thought of being. In the meantime Trump proposes hiring thousands of border agents and ICE Agents; all the while putting a hiring freeze on other government agencies whose essential functions are being put on hold. And, we are going to build a gulag of detention camps to abet this effort???
58
As are many native northern New Englanders, I am descended from Canadian immigrants. Three of my grandparents came down from Canada to work in the New England mills, two from Nova Scotia and one from Quebec.
Indeed, French-Canadians are still the dominant ethnic group in Maine, especially in the old mill towns, such as Lewiston, Biddeford and Rumford.
Of course, at the time my grandparents emigrated, the Canadian borders were completely open. In fact, the immigrants were actually recruited from the farms by the Yankee mill owners, such as the Cabots and Lowells. None of the ethnic quotas and inspections applied at Ellis Island were enforced at the Canadian border.
As my grandfather tells it, when he decided to apply for US citizenship, all he had to do was swear he had been a US resident for five years and pass the literacy test. No questions asked.
Of course, this is all by way of saying that the new immigration policies are all about domestic American politics and have very little to do with any rational, fact-based analysis.
Indeed, French-Canadians are still the dominant ethnic group in Maine, especially in the old mill towns, such as Lewiston, Biddeford and Rumford.
Of course, at the time my grandparents emigrated, the Canadian borders were completely open. In fact, the immigrants were actually recruited from the farms by the Yankee mill owners, such as the Cabots and Lowells. None of the ethnic quotas and inspections applied at Ellis Island were enforced at the Canadian border.
As my grandfather tells it, when he decided to apply for US citizenship, all he had to do was swear he had been a US resident for five years and pass the literacy test. No questions asked.
Of course, this is all by way of saying that the new immigration policies are all about domestic American politics and have very little to do with any rational, fact-based analysis.
49
This is such a sad, sad time for America and to be an American! I am ashamed, and angry, when the worst of us is now at the helm of our country. Time to join another march to protest everything about the new administration.
56
Republicans never were comfortable with the idea of innocent until proven guilty. If you pay attention pretty much everything they say is based in a concept of guilty until proven innocent.
They prefer to act on feelings as if those feelings indicate proven facts without thinking about the nuances that are the essence of freedom. Evidence is a pain in the neck after all and there are all those darn rules for how to use it.
Basically it’s case of “Ugh we know they did something why can’t we just punish them?”
I want Trump and his crew in the Whitehouse to forgo their legal protections for liability for their actions while in office to show us they have faith this new system was designed with the proper amount of forethought to protect the innocent. If they think they are doing right why wouldn’t they?
They prefer to act on feelings as if those feelings indicate proven facts without thinking about the nuances that are the essence of freedom. Evidence is a pain in the neck after all and there are all those darn rules for how to use it.
Basically it’s case of “Ugh we know they did something why can’t we just punish them?”
I want Trump and his crew in the Whitehouse to forgo their legal protections for liability for their actions while in office to show us they have faith this new system was designed with the proper amount of forethought to protect the innocent. If they think they are doing right why wouldn’t they?
21
If this administration is so concerned with upholding immigration law, why don't they go after the real perpetrators - the businesses and people who hire illegal immigrants?
The first sweep they should conduct is through the estates of the wealthy - I guarantee you will find almost all their hired help is illegal. But then don't just deport the illegals. Arrest the employers and fine and jail them.
Why should our immigration laws only beat up on the little guys? Equality under the law should make the employers also pay for the crime of breaking the law.
The first sweep they should conduct is through the estates of the wealthy - I guarantee you will find almost all their hired help is illegal. But then don't just deport the illegals. Arrest the employers and fine and jail them.
Why should our immigration laws only beat up on the little guys? Equality under the law should make the employers also pay for the crime of breaking the law.
42
So let's now hear about the very big door to be opened. If we expanded the number of legal immigrants to grow to match the number of those deported the biggest worries about the economic effects could be solved.
I'd also like to hear the administration promoting foreign aid that can help improve conditions in countries undocumented aliens are leaving. Too often the US was a significant contributor to the environment immigrants are desperate to escape.
Not to say either of these things would justify a cruel shift in policy . . .
I'd also like to hear the administration promoting foreign aid that can help improve conditions in countries undocumented aliens are leaving. Too often the US was a significant contributor to the environment immigrants are desperate to escape.
Not to say either of these things would justify a cruel shift in policy . . .
7
Well, so much for that malarkey about a thoughtful general working as a moderating counterweight to the crazy president. trump has his himmler and his ss. Is the Waffen-SS soon to follow?
28
Fear is the foundation of most governments; but it is so sordid and brutal a passion, and renders men in whose breasts it predominates so stupid and miserable, that Americans will not be likely to approve of any political institution which is founded on it.
John Adams, Thoughts on Government, 1776
John Adams, Thoughts on Government, 1776
33
For 5 yrs I've mentored youngsters in a migrant community, so I know first hand the enormous generosity of surrounding communities to work with migrant families and their churches to help get kids through high school and onto college despite gangs, drugs and drop outs. There is great gratitude and collegiality with/among our migrant families, who often live hard and complicated lives. But, there is also crime, drug trafficking, people trafficking, use/abuse of social service and other benefits without paying taxes. So, I suggest we lose the anger and stop hiding behind intellectual and moralistic arguments about American values. Get out there and roll up your sleeves and experience what is really going on and help solve the problems, family by family. And we will meet in the middle to find fair and humane solutions.
19
I have encountered immigration judges three times. They are the scum of the judiciary. On one occasion, the judge ordered the deportation of the man who organized ambulances after the Beirut Marine barracks bombing--after having refused to let testify an expert on Lebanon and the Marine colonel who had been his commanding officer in Beirut. On another occasion, a judge--on a poor quality video connection--ordered the deportation of an Iraqi Christian family who had waited four years for an asylum hearing. The father had been tortured under Saddam, but the video connection was not good enough for the judge to see the cigarette burns on the man's body. Anyway, the judge ruled that with Saddam overthrown, it was safe for the family to return home. He too refused to let experts testify.
A "surge" of new agents and judges is simply going to result in more recruiting from the shallow end of the gene pool.
A "surge" of new agents and judges is simply going to result in more recruiting from the shallow end of the gene pool.
24
More liberal lies. Americans want our immigration laws enforced. President Trump should rescind DACA and ICE should be using the DACA database to identify the names and addresses of illegal aliens and their families. We need to deport all 12 million illegal aliens and secure our border. I would recommend anyone who knows of any business that hires illegal aliens to contact ICE so that this business can be raided, the illegal aliens arrested and deported and the business owners fined and maybe arrested.
28
Many do not understand the cost of illegal immigration to American taxpayers. In NY, 10,000+ per year is spent to educate 1 public school student. Add to this, the cost of health care, etc. and we can see why city, state and real estate taxes are so high that NY is unlivable for the middle class. The average illegal works at sub par wages, not covering a fraction of these costs. This does not include the burden of much larger class sizes and the extra cost of bi-lingual education.
And to risk being called racist, the group most affected by illegal, low wage producing jobs, are lower educated African Americans.
And to risk being called racist, the group most affected by illegal, low wage producing jobs, are lower educated African Americans.
40
it is no surprise that Kelly lied to the approval committee. We have the imminent creation of a police force beholden to no one but the bigots we have in charge.
29
If American values include criminal behavior, especially murder, then yes, the new DHS guidelines are an assault on those values. As it should be! I support rounding up the criminal aliens and transporting them back to wherever they originated. President Eisenhower did it in the 1950s, so why can’t we do it now. We must do it, or American society will continue to decline, decline at more of an accelerated pace than it has in the last decade. Had HRC been elected, America as we know it now, would have been unrecognizable after and her left wing legions got finished with it! Thank God, we have President Trump, as we work to restore America. Thank you.
30
Here in europe those people are called "sans papier". you in the United States call them illegal immigrants. For what reason whatever they came into the US or Europe, their status is now illegal. I don't see a problem sending those people home and let them immigrate in a proper way. Unfortunately not everybody can come to the US or Europe, otherwise our societes will fail. Because the most in need do not have a chance to come to us, (women, children, sick people) It would be wiser to accept the most needy. All others should apply for a work visa
16
"So does every American who believes that the country is, or should be, committed to the sensible, proportionate application of laws,"
Like the laws passed by our Congress over time concerning immigration?
Those are the Laws this policy intends to enforce. If you don't like them, work to change them but until they are changed they need to be enforced.
Like the laws passed by our Congress over time concerning immigration?
Those are the Laws this policy intends to enforce. If you don't like them, work to change them but until they are changed they need to be enforced.
27
This is a policy designed to strike fear into the hearts of all American undocumented residents. They can no longer feel safe by being good citizens. Since a traffic stop can end up in a deportation procedure, we can expect more dangerous high speed chases when police attempt to pull people over for minor traffic offences.
This is an Un-American policy designed to harass and terrify decent law abiding people.
This is an Un-American policy designed to harass and terrify decent law abiding people.
16
This is great! Pretty soon I'll be able to get that busboy job I've had my eye on, and my wife will be able to fulfill her lifelong dream to be a hotel maid. And my kids will be able to pick fruit this summer now that those pesky Mexicans won't be hogging all of the good jobs!
31
All trump cares about is playing to his base and claiming he is only keeping his promise. If there was ever any doubt that he is a cold and ruthless excuse for a human being this is it. Millions of decent people are now living in fear. I just want to cry.
21
Trump Von Clownstick and his Chief of Gestapo SS Bannon will be met with the harshest Resistance we can muster. Their illegal unconstitutional orders will not be obeyed. We are not about to turn in people whom we know have nothing wrong and are trying to make it in America. First they came for the immigrants...Who's next?
DD
Manhattan
DD
Manhattan
8
I'm sick of being told by somebody else what my values should be, just because I was born here. When the Soviets did that, we called it brainwashing.
14
Final solutions have beginnings. Never forget that everything the Nazis did was legal.
16
If it is against American values to enforce immigration law, why have it in the first place? Let us open our borders to people from all nations - not just to our neighbors from the south. Where is the line drawn - if at all? Currently, the Trump Republicans are about to destroy the American labor movment lowering wages and standards for workers legally in our country while replacing them - even in the skilled trades - with undocumented workers who have no protection of U.S. labor law such as minimum wage, 40 hour work week, OSHA mandated safe working conditions, etc.. The employers who hire undocumented workers are criminals, who are rarely arrested or prosecuted. They are Trump Republicans who are enriching themselves by lowering the standards of living for regular American workers. They certainly don't want another amnesty given for undocumented workers lest they will be covered by labor protection law. The most humane way to deport undocumented workers would be to enforce sanctions against criminal employers to dry up the jobs so they will self-deport of their own volition. A humane, labor law protected guest worker program could be established for jobs that we are unable to fill. Trump Republicans never mention enforcing employer sanctions - I wonder why? Silly walls are nonthing but a ruse.
9
I think the illegal immigrants are the victims of a country that refused to enforce its own laws in the first place.
Now we have a president who has said unequivocally he will remove those who are illegal. People that are not supposed to be here or working and living here.
He is doing exactly what he said he would to the voters who elected him.
I don't understand the shock at this.
Now we have a president who has said unequivocally he will remove those who are illegal. People that are not supposed to be here or working and living here.
He is doing exactly what he said he would to the voters who elected him.
I don't understand the shock at this.
27
Ann hid in the attic with the rest of her family
A friends attic, and without this house and without them they would have gone to the 'detention centers' long ago. Away from a city she has known her whole life. Where all her friends lived.
Ann loved this town, her school, her little house. But someone noticed she was different, they were all different, they were not one of them. The recession, the decline in jobs, the crime - it was all their fault.
She and everyone like her must go 'somewhere else'.
During the day they had to be quiet. If someone heard them they might turn them in. That's when she wrote in her diary.
'in spite of everything, i truly believe people are good."
Then one morning the banging began. Then the door was broken open.
They wore helmets and bulletproof vests.
ICE was written on the back of their jackets.
A friends attic, and without this house and without them they would have gone to the 'detention centers' long ago. Away from a city she has known her whole life. Where all her friends lived.
Ann loved this town, her school, her little house. But someone noticed she was different, they were all different, they were not one of them. The recession, the decline in jobs, the crime - it was all their fault.
She and everyone like her must go 'somewhere else'.
During the day they had to be quiet. If someone heard them they might turn them in. That's when she wrote in her diary.
'in spite of everything, i truly believe people are good."
Then one morning the banging began. Then the door was broken open.
They wore helmets and bulletproof vests.
ICE was written on the back of their jackets.
19
As I read the plans for the deportation force and the possibility of mass deportations, the lack of critical and logical thought in this administration is truly frightening. Tearing a parent from their citizen children with no compassion possibly leaving them in poverty with a grudge against this country that will last a lifetime is stupid and dangerous. Couple that with destabilizing a country with millions of refugees.
The Trump Adminisrtation is planting the seeds for the next terrorist crisis, not a half a world away but at our southern border. Many will have US citizenship and passports with a grudge against the Government. How stupid is this. Trying to solve a minor and easily solvable problem by crating the potential for a long term disaster.
The Trump Adminisrtation is planting the seeds for the next terrorist crisis, not a half a world away but at our southern border. Many will have US citizenship and passports with a grudge against the Government. How stupid is this. Trying to solve a minor and easily solvable problem by crating the potential for a long term disaster.
13
Melania Trump entered the U.S. on a tourists visa and proceeded to violate federal law by working for pay as a model as an undocumented immigrant . Now, she sits silently in her golden tower looking down on this debacle as though she is above the law. Meanwhile, her enabler, the emperor with no clothes, orders people of his wife's ilk to be deported by the millions. The Republican Party is brimming with hypocrites!
33
Are the people arguing for enforcement of laws of the belief that all laws are enforced? Are there bathroom officials in North Carolina inspecting genitals? Are there officials in Georgia tasked with enforcing that no one is eating fried chicken with utensils?
I know it's comparing apples and oranges to an extent but is really spending time and money on this a good use of the limited resources we have?
I know it's comparing apples and oranges to an extent but is really spending time and money on this a good use of the limited resources we have?
6
I'm all for legal immigration; go through the process. Those here illegally broke the law and shouldn't be rewarded. End of story.
28
Sounds like the beginning of a police state to me.
6
Since when do American values include refusal to enforce the law and rewarding people who break laws?
26
All four of my grandparents were immigrants. Of them, 3 came here legally through Ellis Island. The fourth came via a South American ship on which he was part of the crew. He jumped ship in New York and never returned to Ireland. Eventually, he became a permanent resident because he married my grandmother and was somehow eligible through her to get his green card.There is no moral to my story other than all 17 of his grandchildren are productive, tax-paying American citizens.
9
This is the war on drugs, all over again. Billions will be wasted with no effect other than to lower the moral of law enforcement as they are asked to deal with something that they already deal with, but now in a ridiculously showy way.
There are a lot of illegal things/people in our country. Attempting to physically force them all out at once is not within the realm of possibility. Working on reducing the demand is all you can do. Just like illegal drugs, if there is a desire for them to be here, they're going to find a way.
There are a lot of illegal things/people in our country. Attempting to physically force them all out at once is not within the realm of possibility. Working on reducing the demand is all you can do. Just like illegal drugs, if there is a desire for them to be here, they're going to find a way.
4
One week ago today a Colombian frriend's sister and family arrived at Houston with their brand new, U.S. Consulate granted, visas in hand. Customs officers denied them entry on the basis of their absurd and unfounded claim they knew the family planned to overstay their visas. Their photos and fingerprints were taken and they were sent back, effectively banning them indefinitely.
Slimy already has his wall. This is shameful.
Slimy already has his wall. This is shameful.
15
The EO is quite simply a stand in for what was earlier understood to be our 'comprehensive immigration reform plan,' that which Congress crafted under Obama and Speaker Boehner blocked from final vote in the House. The legislative responsibility belongs to Congress, not 45. By deferring to 45 and his EO, they duck and cover rather than doing the legislative work of crafting a comprehensive plan that captures the complexity of the issue. Build the wall, Deport them all is not a comprehensive plan. To defer to this EO is yet another instance of the GOP's intellectual laziness. Do your job, GOP, because 45's reckless effort is yours for the explaining.
4
Proud of my President in this case, and as Americans we all should be. Illegal immigrants deserve absolutely no sympathy. They knew what they were doing was wrong, but they did it anyway and just like ALL people should be held accountable and face the consequences. They don't have to live in fear, they can go somewhere that they are legally allowed to live. We're building a wall, it will have a door. Respect our laws next time
22
This disaster in progress shows us exactly why comprehensive immigration reform is the only economically sound and humane way to address the issue. Reagan got it, while today's dumbed down GOP remains clueless. A mindless and inefficient, massive waste of taxpayer money. Heartless bureaucracy at its worst, leaving generations of human damage in its wake. Trump refuses to live up to his campaign promise and focus only on those who have committed serious crimes. These actions will now cement his oft threatened legacy of ruthlessness into history.
8
There have been reports in the press that one Donald J. Trump recently used illegal alien workers during the renovations on the Old Post Office Hotel in Washington, DC and had used illegals when he was building Trump Tower in NY years ago.
8 U.S. Code 1324a is the law that makes hiring illegal aliens a violation. It provides both civil and criminal penalties, including fines and jail time.
I suggest that the U.S. Government enforce 8 U.S. Code 1324a, if for no other reason that preventing people from offering work to illegal aliens will remove a major incentive for illegal aliens from coming to the U.S.
I suggest that the U.S. Government start with one specific employer, the same Donald J. Trump. I think they can find that scofflaw at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington, DC.
Let's "Make America Great Again" by going after the people who violate the law. All of them.
8 U.S. Code 1324a is the law that makes hiring illegal aliens a violation. It provides both civil and criminal penalties, including fines and jail time.
I suggest that the U.S. Government enforce 8 U.S. Code 1324a, if for no other reason that preventing people from offering work to illegal aliens will remove a major incentive for illegal aliens from coming to the U.S.
I suggest that the U.S. Government start with one specific employer, the same Donald J. Trump. I think they can find that scofflaw at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington, DC.
Let's "Make America Great Again" by going after the people who violate the law. All of them.
12
The wall will cost anywhere between 24 ad 40 Billion dollars , will not produce any returns and is not needed because Mexican immigration basically came to a halt 5 years ago.
But if we want to prevent future events, wouldn't it be a better investment to loan that money to Mexico, with interest, and help them improve their agriculture
and reduce the needs of the peasant to seek employment in the US?
But if we want to prevent future events, wouldn't it be a better investment to loan that money to Mexico, with interest, and help them improve their agriculture
and reduce the needs of the peasant to seek employment in the US?
6
From A Letter to My Friends
I have real trepidation about recording my thoughts after watching President Donald J. Trump's speech yesterday in Melbourne, FL.
No doubt you're familiar with Godwin's Law, the Internet adage that asserts, "As an on-line discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Adolph Hitler approaches 1.0;" i.e., if an on-line discussion (regardless of the topic or the scope) goes on long enough, eventually someone will compare someone or something to Hitler or Nazism.
Well, dear friends, I may well be precisely that person.
Right out of college (post 1960), I read William L. Shirer's "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich: A History of Nazi Germany," a superb book that everyone should read.
Over the years, it became a distant memory, but about ten years ago, I read another book that has also been around for quite a long time, John Toland's "Adolf Hitler." It too is an excellent book.
What I can tell you -- and very sorrowfully so -- is that Donald J. Trump's appeal to his base in these campaign speeches (like the one he delivered in Melbourne) -- that was not at all like a presidential address -- was so Hitlerian, it's almost mind boggling.
I implore you to do some serious reading about the rise of Nazism; and, as you witness the behavior of our president, look for parallels between his performance and the responses of his ardent followers and the early 1930s' performance of Adolph Hitler and the responses of his followers.
Whew!
I have real trepidation about recording my thoughts after watching President Donald J. Trump's speech yesterday in Melbourne, FL.
No doubt you're familiar with Godwin's Law, the Internet adage that asserts, "As an on-line discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Adolph Hitler approaches 1.0;" i.e., if an on-line discussion (regardless of the topic or the scope) goes on long enough, eventually someone will compare someone or something to Hitler or Nazism.
Well, dear friends, I may well be precisely that person.
Right out of college (post 1960), I read William L. Shirer's "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich: A History of Nazi Germany," a superb book that everyone should read.
Over the years, it became a distant memory, but about ten years ago, I read another book that has also been around for quite a long time, John Toland's "Adolf Hitler." It too is an excellent book.
What I can tell you -- and very sorrowfully so -- is that Donald J. Trump's appeal to his base in these campaign speeches (like the one he delivered in Melbourne) -- that was not at all like a presidential address -- was so Hitlerian, it's almost mind boggling.
I implore you to do some serious reading about the rise of Nazism; and, as you witness the behavior of our president, look for parallels between his performance and the responses of his ardent followers and the early 1930s' performance of Adolph Hitler and the responses of his followers.
Whew!
16
"[G]et right with the law"? This is how the editorial board of the paper of record writes? How about "become legal"? Are we now at the point where the English language must suffer such an injustice in the name of political correctness? C'mon, you are all much better than that!
12
From 1924 to 1965 legal immigration was severely restricted in the U.S. Was America somehow less 'american' in those 31 years? Those restrictions supported the development of a middle class and of broad prosperity in the postwar era.
20
I do not like Donald Trump. But for the NY Times to say that his heavy enforcement of the law is an assault on American Values is just crap.
The assault on American Values is the total disregard of the Rule of Law that people show who come to the USA without a visa in hand. They want what the USA has to offer, a system that sort of works. But that system is built upon the foundation of The Rule of Law.
I really do not care if we open the immigration gates like it was 1900. But, until we do then people need to stop coming to the USA unless they have a valid visa in hand. If they do, then they are guilt of ignoring The Rule of Law. I don't care if they have been here a day or 50 years.
Now we could change the law to let these people stay by perhaps creating a "sentence" for breaking The Rule of Law of 2 weekends a month for 5 years doing community service and paying 10% of their annual income as a fine for 5 years. Between now and then they get a temporary visa and at the end of the 5 years they get citizenship if they do the time and pay the fine and do not get convicted of anything.
But, to reward people for violating The Rule of Law is not an American Value and it should not be. The NY Times is wrong. The real assault to American Values is the disregard of The Rule of Law.
The assault on American Values is the total disregard of the Rule of Law that people show who come to the USA without a visa in hand. They want what the USA has to offer, a system that sort of works. But that system is built upon the foundation of The Rule of Law.
I really do not care if we open the immigration gates like it was 1900. But, until we do then people need to stop coming to the USA unless they have a valid visa in hand. If they do, then they are guilt of ignoring The Rule of Law. I don't care if they have been here a day or 50 years.
Now we could change the law to let these people stay by perhaps creating a "sentence" for breaking The Rule of Law of 2 weekends a month for 5 years doing community service and paying 10% of their annual income as a fine for 5 years. Between now and then they get a temporary visa and at the end of the 5 years they get citizenship if they do the time and pay the fine and do not get convicted of anything.
But, to reward people for violating The Rule of Law is not an American Value and it should not be. The NY Times is wrong. The real assault to American Values is the disregard of The Rule of Law.
18
The first thing Congress should do is pass a law that if you are a child of an illegal immigrant, you lose your citizenship. This alone would stop millions from coming into America illegally, & reduce the cost of the taxpayers to deliver the children of these illegal immigrants.
In biblical times there were cities that were havens for law breakers. If you were able to get to these cities before you were caught you did not have to face justice.Apparently, the editorial staff got the idea of allowing illegal immigrants the opportunity to become citizens rather than be deported.This will surely increase the flow of illegal immigrants to America. Why wait two years to become an American Citizen, when you can sneak into this country get forged documents, and live the good life.
It’s this type of thinking that gives liberalism a bad name.
In biblical times there were cities that were havens for law breakers. If you were able to get to these cities before you were caught you did not have to face justice.Apparently, the editorial staff got the idea of allowing illegal immigrants the opportunity to become citizens rather than be deported.This will surely increase the flow of illegal immigrants to America. Why wait two years to become an American Citizen, when you can sneak into this country get forged documents, and live the good life.
It’s this type of thinking that gives liberalism a bad name.
14
One huge problem is that to Trump and his followers, an illegal immigrant is the same as a legal refugee, who is the same as a person speaking Arabic. Next on his agenda will be Spanish speakers.
Creating fear, panic and hate is one step closer towards a totalitarian government. Many say that if Hitler was stopped when he reoccupied the Rheinland in 1936, we might have avoided the war yet hindsight is 20/20.
Perhaps Trump needs to be stopped right now. How? A bipartisan full investigation into his business dealings with Russia. The Flynn debacle provides the opportunity to start these proceedings. Lets see some congressional backbone for a change.
Creating fear, panic and hate is one step closer towards a totalitarian government. Many say that if Hitler was stopped when he reoccupied the Rheinland in 1936, we might have avoided the war yet hindsight is 20/20.
Perhaps Trump needs to be stopped right now. How? A bipartisan full investigation into his business dealings with Russia. The Flynn debacle provides the opportunity to start these proceedings. Lets see some congressional backbone for a change.
7
Again, we're conflating illegal immigration with legal immigration. One million LEGAL immigrants arrived in the US last year. This is not anti immigrant. Pres. Ronald Reagan reached a deal with congress to legalize millions of illegal immigrants and congress would then tighten borders and control immigration. This was to be a one time event. Millions were given amnesty but Congress failed to do it's part. This is what has led to our current situation; another 10 million illegal immigrants. This is one reason why Trump won, citizens total lack of faith in Congress to do it's job, leading to citizens hoping for a radical change. You can blame the Republicans for this, but you ignore the Democrats part in this.
15
This isn't about "immigrants." It's about illegal aliens. People who entered this country illegally, without a visa, without the fingerprinting, background check, medical exam, etc. They knew they were illegal when they came here, and they knew what would happen if they got caught. Well, they got caught. Cry me a river. But please stop whining about "immigrants." This has nothing to do with immigrants.
27
How many cellphone videos of Trump's SS violently destroying families will be required before 10 Million people march on the White House (actually Mar Lago) demanding his impeachment? His nativist supporters are outnumbered.
7
Each day are presented with new degrees of not just in your face nastiness, but completely mean spirited acts to dehumanize his victims by the flaunting and Tweeting of a pig headed bully. We have reached a new dimension of shallowness, where the vast hollow void of human decency has reshaped himself into this malignant wart of hate.
4
Now that we've agreed to keep 12 million illegal aliens- and continue to support them and their families- How about we stop paying state and federal income taxes? If the government can't possibly deport 12 million illegal aliens- there is no way to punish over 171 million Americans who file federal returns. Organize the drum circles and poetry slams baby! I think I've just started another righteous revolution !!! This is really heavy!
9
I guess that according to the NY Times, "American values" includes the selective enforcement of the law...
13
This cannot end well, because it is already clear that ICE is becoming a den of zealous, bigoted thugs.
Now, more than ever, citizens need to be prepared to document ICE enforcement actions for evidence of wrongdoing. It's dead certain that US citizens will be caught up in ICE dragnets because they look Hispanic.
By engaging in actions in gathering places like supermarkets, ICE is creating an atmosphere of terror. What's next? Schools? Hospital wards? The sidewalks around Mexican consulates?
We also need to be alert to efforts by the Administration to criminalize dissent by ginning up new ways to arrest people who protest the governments's purge of undocumented aliens.
Now, more than ever, citizens need to be prepared to document ICE enforcement actions for evidence of wrongdoing. It's dead certain that US citizens will be caught up in ICE dragnets because they look Hispanic.
By engaging in actions in gathering places like supermarkets, ICE is creating an atmosphere of terror. What's next? Schools? Hospital wards? The sidewalks around Mexican consulates?
We also need to be alert to efforts by the Administration to criminalize dissent by ginning up new ways to arrest people who protest the governments's purge of undocumented aliens.
5
Where is the actions about jobs that Adolf Trump talked about? Crickets. This will keep his supporters happy. A distraction. The Republicans don't give a hoot about infrastructure ( expect the wall). What's happening in Congress now, taking apart social security Medicare ACA,Medicaid but we are keeping out all of those evil immigrants.
There is song that reminds me of now, it was done by Creedence Clearwater Revival call " Don't Look Now" part of the verse goes- " Who will work the fields with their hands?who will put their back to the plow?who will take the mountain give to the sea?Don't Look Now it ain't you or me.
Who will the shoes for your feet? Who will make the clothes that you wear? Who will take the promise that you don't have to keep? Don't Look Now it ain't you or me.
There is song that reminds me of now, it was done by Creedence Clearwater Revival call " Don't Look Now" part of the verse goes- " Who will work the fields with their hands?who will put their back to the plow?who will take the mountain give to the sea?Don't Look Now it ain't you or me.
Who will the shoes for your feet? Who will make the clothes that you wear? Who will take the promise that you don't have to keep? Don't Look Now it ain't you or me.
1
It is against the law to refuse to rent or sell property to people of color.
It is against the law to swindle people by using high pressure tactics to induce them to hand over their savings at your fake University.
It is against the law to incite people to violence at rallies.
It is against the law to force yourself on women.
It is against the law to plot with agents of a foreign regime, secretly, behind the back of the duly elected US government.
Let the thorough law enforcement start now, at the top.
It is against the law to swindle people by using high pressure tactics to induce them to hand over their savings at your fake University.
It is against the law to incite people to violence at rallies.
It is against the law to force yourself on women.
It is against the law to plot with agents of a foreign regime, secretly, behind the back of the duly elected US government.
Let the thorough law enforcement start now, at the top.
7
Is it not time to call for Congress - Democrats in concert with principled Republicans (many of whom concerned constituencies such as in Florida) may constitute a real majority today - to act immediately. This Trump plan is the call to action and Congress is the one which needs to pass overdue reform.
2
At the risk of alienating my friends, I offer the following. I have trained multiple students in high end science to Phd level from India, China, Switzerland and South Africa. For them to legally stay in America to work after, it involved many thousands of dollars and years of effort. While I do not support widespread deportation of illegal people in the United States, it seems to me that having some control over who gets in from the south is prudent. What is good for laborers from South America and Mexico who want a better life in America, should be good for PhD candidates from elsewhere. I think have short term work visas with knowledge of who workers are as some level--and easier to get than green cards now---might be a solution.
6
Why be surprised. Kelly is just taking orders from Bannon, and like a good soldier he obeys. Remind me why his confirmation wasn't controversial.
2
If you are here illegally, shouldn't you be in a position to be deported? If our laws don't allow illegal immigration or 'sneaking' into the U.S. without the proper documentation shouldn't you be arrested and deported? Do you think if an American citizen was illegal in another country, we wouldn't face deportation? I don't understand all the hand-wringing. I realize that over the years illegal immigrants have settled in and are working, had children, established ties to the community, but you are here illegally. Why can't we work out a solution for those who have been here and have established themselves and their families? Just asking.
9
Very soon Trump and his cohorts will be co-opting songs and changing lyrics:
"America" will become; " "Amerika": "My Country Tis Of These- White Land of Liberty- of thee I sing".
Parliament Funkadelic's "One Nation Under A Groove", will become "White Nation Under A Grove"- Getting Down Just For the Heck of it- White Nation Under A Groove- Can't Nothing Stop Us Now..."
"America" will become; " "Amerika": "My Country Tis Of These- White Land of Liberty- of thee I sing".
Parliament Funkadelic's "One Nation Under A Groove", will become "White Nation Under A Grove"- Getting Down Just For the Heck of it- White Nation Under A Groove- Can't Nothing Stop Us Now..."
2
Let's not discount the racist element of Trump's deportation obsession, which although unmentioned, is part of his plan of keeping America white. By expelling millions of brown-skinned people, the plan will prevent that this fast growing minority can become new citizens by birth or naturalization down the road, thus threatening the ethnic composition of the nation. Since Trump cannot deport black people, at least getting ready of brown people would be a great step in his plans to keep America mostly white.
9
There are 11 million illegal immigrants in this country who came here by circumventing the law. Either they overstayed a visa or crossed a border illegally. Some had children. A generation of young people who are citizens as a result of the illegal behavior of the parent. Some came out of desperation but recently I saw two examples that give me pause. A mother from Mexico brought her daughters here illegally to escape an abusive husband.
The other, a Honduran woman 9 months pregnant with a fetus with Zika who, by having her baby here, will have medicaid to cover the lifelong expenses of this newly minted citizen. My taxes will pay for both.
Compassion is one thing. Enforcing the law that has existed for decades does not make one lack compassion.
Were I to travel to Italy on a visa, overstay it purposely and then reap the benefits of welfare, healthcare, food stamps etc. it would not surprise me if one day some government official would try to deport me.
We have morphed the word illegal into undocumented. Those who came illegally broke the law. Time does not unbreak that act. It just gives one the opportunity to complain when the law is finally enforced.
Undocumented is incorrect. Illegal is the proper term.
The other, a Honduran woman 9 months pregnant with a fetus with Zika who, by having her baby here, will have medicaid to cover the lifelong expenses of this newly minted citizen. My taxes will pay for both.
Compassion is one thing. Enforcing the law that has existed for decades does not make one lack compassion.
Were I to travel to Italy on a visa, overstay it purposely and then reap the benefits of welfare, healthcare, food stamps etc. it would not surprise me if one day some government official would try to deport me.
We have morphed the word illegal into undocumented. Those who came illegally broke the law. Time does not unbreak that act. It just gives one the opportunity to complain when the law is finally enforced.
Undocumented is incorrect. Illegal is the proper term.
15
The failure of the Trump administration to deport all the illegals now living and working (and not paying taxes and burdening the social services) in our country would be an assault on MY American values. Does the NYT presume to speak for all Americans? Why do you think Trump is in the WH? You're on the wrong side of this issue.
5
A shameful country we have become.
9
To paraphrase Niemoller, First they came for the Mexicans, and I did not speak because I am not a Mexican. Then they came for the Muslims and I did not speak because I was not a Muslim.
It couldn't happen in the US except it has started.
Our president tells us the media is the enemy.
It couldn't happen in the US except it has started.
Our president tells us the media is the enemy.
5
... and where does Congress stand on the immigration and deportation issues?
For many years now, we have needed a sensible immigration policy to replace the archaic, frivolous laws currently on the books. Whatever happened to the efforts to pass a new immigration law?
A dysfunctional Congress and a dysfunctional President constitute a deadly sinkhole of American sense and sensibility.
For many years now, we have needed a sensible immigration policy to replace the archaic, frivolous laws currently on the books. Whatever happened to the efforts to pass a new immigration law?
A dysfunctional Congress and a dysfunctional President constitute a deadly sinkhole of American sense and sensibility.
6
Brown shirt types are salivating at this. Elections have consequences.
John McCain, where are you?
John McCain, where are you?
5
I am a conservative living in an affluent NJ school district that includes Trump’s National Golf course. In a town of 7000, we have ~700 immigrants who were brought here to care for the estates of our more affluent neighbors. As a Pop Warner coach, I’ve had the sons of both estate owners and caretakers on my teams. They’ve grew up side by side as teammates- with all the same American values.
So now, how do you now deport the kid who was brought here as a baby, while giving a pass to the man who paid his way here, housed him on his estate, and paid his family a pittance for caring for the estate? If you want to deny citizenship to their parents, fine. Give them legal residence. But you also need to address the estate and business owners- both conservative and progressive- who are responsible for them being here. As for the kids brought here by their parents (Dreamers), they were raised as Americans and deserve citizenship. They are as American as your kids.
So now, how do you now deport the kid who was brought here as a baby, while giving a pass to the man who paid his way here, housed him on his estate, and paid his family a pittance for caring for the estate? If you want to deny citizenship to their parents, fine. Give them legal residence. But you also need to address the estate and business owners- both conservative and progressive- who are responsible for them being here. As for the kids brought here by their parents (Dreamers), they were raised as Americans and deserve citizenship. They are as American as your kids.
11
Despite Conservative protests to the contrary illegal immigration was never a problem to the business community. Whether it's agricultural, construction, restaurant or janitorial illegals allowed businesses to avoid many of the costs that would exist if American Citizens had been hired.
Whether it's tomatoes in Alabama, fruits and nuts and every other agricultural commodity from the Imperial Valley to Eastern Washington or rebuilding New Orleans illegals are sought to do the work.
In order to get citizens to do any of these jobs they will have to pay better wages and really include benefit payments to Social Security and Medicare.
Then of course the Republican Politicians belonging to Koch, Wall Street the DeVos types will have to destroy the safety net and eliminate the minimum wage. Which will, regrettably, leave too many people without the means to live.
But of course they see that and are building the security apparatus to manage the dispossessed. Trump's employing most military and reactionary types is laying the foundation.
Whether it's tomatoes in Alabama, fruits and nuts and every other agricultural commodity from the Imperial Valley to Eastern Washington or rebuilding New Orleans illegals are sought to do the work.
In order to get citizens to do any of these jobs they will have to pay better wages and really include benefit payments to Social Security and Medicare.
Then of course the Republican Politicians belonging to Koch, Wall Street the DeVos types will have to destroy the safety net and eliminate the minimum wage. Which will, regrettably, leave too many people without the means to live.
But of course they see that and are building the security apparatus to manage the dispossessed. Trump's employing most military and reactionary types is laying the foundation.
4
Not so long ago, we finally got around to apologizing for the Japanese internment camps. We thought it took us a long time to learn that lesson. Turns out, we did not learn any lesson at all. We are repeating that mistake.
The Department of Homeland Security is an Orwellian and monstrous oxymoron. I do not feel one bit safer having goons in uniforms rounding up people, breaking up families, and deporting them. They will get around to the Jews--another lesson not learned.
The Department of Homeland Security is an Orwellian and monstrous oxymoron. I do not feel one bit safer having goons in uniforms rounding up people, breaking up families, and deporting them. They will get around to the Jews--another lesson not learned.
5
Let's defend American values by informing our immigrant friends and neighbors of their rights under our Constitution: They should never open their doors to ICE or other police or answer any questions from those police unless the police can show a warrant for their action issued by a court. This inhumane and vicious policy will fail if people know their rights, because courts will not be able to issue warrants on the scale needed for it to succeed.
3
In my rural neighborhood there are Guatemalans who worker in Nurseries, Landscaping companies and farms. They are hard working, usually men whose families are still in Guatemala. I am a physician and I know a few by name. These men work as many hours as they can get and send money home to their families. In Guatemala they worke at subsistence wages. One man told me that he sends money back and has a daughter back home who wants to be a Doctor. What would people in this place feel if he just disappeared? Would anybody care? Would anybody protest his disappearance? Would anybody benefit? What would happen if all those people just disappeared. Sure some are anonymous but we may know some peoples stories and they are not different from my family's story a century earlier. Keep America Great!
4
They are here illegally. They have citizen children, because they broke the law to get here. They had citizen children because they made a conscious decision to risk their children's futures by bing here illegally.
Under this logic, I can break into your home, take your TV or your money, stay as long as I want and you pay for me and my family.
That's ok, right?
They are here ILLEGALLY while hundreds of thousands of people ac ISS the world wait for years to get LEGAL access to this nation.
Criminal acts are UNAMERICAN. Enforcing our laws is what is right. We are a nation of laws, not emotions.
Under this logic, I can break into your home, take your TV or your money, stay as long as I want and you pay for me and my family.
That's ok, right?
They are here ILLEGALLY while hundreds of thousands of people ac ISS the world wait for years to get LEGAL access to this nation.
Criminal acts are UNAMERICAN. Enforcing our laws is what is right. We are a nation of laws, not emotions.
9
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
Shall we now turn the statue around so her back is to the rest of the world?
Shall we now turn the statue around so her back is to the rest of the world?
2
First they came for the 'undocumented' immigrants then ....
Remember HUAC and McCarthy?
I do.
Remember HUAC and McCarthy?
I do.
4
More and more Trump seems like a demented Roman emperor who is persecuting a minority whose presence he wants to eradicate.
How good Christians can go to Church and then witness the mass deportation of fellow Christians who "have broken the law" when the same Christians had religious ancestors who "broke the law" [the Roman law] and were wrathfully persecuted is beyond me. Surely, they are not Christians in any sense of the term. Pope Francis has already identified Trump as "not a Christian" - can't they take the hint?
How good Christians can go to Church and then witness the mass deportation of fellow Christians who "have broken the law" when the same Christians had religious ancestors who "broke the law" [the Roman law] and were wrathfully persecuted is beyond me. Surely, they are not Christians in any sense of the term. Pope Francis has already identified Trump as "not a Christian" - can't they take the hint?
4
When our country's fruits and vegetables rot on the vine because there is no longer anyone to harvest them, who will pay? We the people will pay in higher costs. Farmers will have to pay a decent wage to get the crops picked so prices will have to rise to make up for it. When Mexico buys their 3 Billion dollars worth of corn this year from South America, who will pay? The American farmers who have to sell the corn way cheaper than previous years even though it costs them the same to grow it and we will have a glut of corn. Who will be cleaning our hotel rooms? People making probably twice what the illegals were making, so costs of staying there will rise. Who will do the landscaping for all of the rich landowners? Somebody making a lot more money than the illegals who did a great job. Nothing he does makes sense, but are we really surprised?
4
So what's the alternative? Immigration reform (amnesty) is failed policy in that the enforcement provisions are never realized while the illegal alien population is rewarded with residency and citizenship. That's how we have 11+ million illegal aliens here after the "one time only" amnesty of 1986 looking for their amnesty. A different approach is required and that approach is enforcement of existing laws. What is being advocated in this editorial is the abandonment of immigration laws; that we have no moral right to control who comes to our country.
The inane position of the Board is why we have the demagogue Trump as our president. At least he is going to do SOMETHING about illegal immigration.
The inane position of the Board is why we have the demagogue Trump as our president. At least he is going to do SOMETHING about illegal immigration.
6
Familes in my Irish-Italian -Sicilian neighborhood entered America through Ellis Island a long time ago.
Officials in those days enforced tough straightforward rules.
what did they know that escapes current United States leadershi
p?
Officials in those days enforced tough straightforward rules.
what did they know that escapes current United States leadershi
p?
5
Thanks for your Daily Dose of Demagoguery regarding anything related to the Trump Administration. Your coverage and editorials do much more damage to the Republic than any statements from the President regarding the role of the mass media. Eight years of fawning, now Eight years of fracking?
8
We of the Trump Resistance will be doing just that, resisting till the cows come home and our immigrants are protected from deportation.
New York is the nation's largest sanctuary city. Without our cooperation and that of California there is nothing Trump and his Gestapo Chief SS Bannon can do to get rid of most of the immigrants in this nation, certainly not in the largest states. First they came for the immigrants...
The nerve of Trump. He claims to be the "least anti-Semite ever", "the least racist person ever". This is a lie. Trump uses his daughter's conversion as proof? You must be joking! With Bannon and the Breitbart horde of White Supremacists in Trump's ear daily with talk of making America All White Again, we have much to fear. The desecration of Jewish cemeteries in Upstate is atrocious. There are many Haters who now believe Trump has given them credence to exact their Hate on people not like them.
The trains are lining up here on the West Side, ready to take all the immigrants out of the country. They will stay there, empty, because if we citizens do nothing to aid and abet the authorities there is nothing they can do. From now on, if we see something we will not say something. Mum's the word. Impeach Trump and Pence before this nation is torn asunder.
DD
Manhattan
New York is the nation's largest sanctuary city. Without our cooperation and that of California there is nothing Trump and his Gestapo Chief SS Bannon can do to get rid of most of the immigrants in this nation, certainly not in the largest states. First they came for the immigrants...
The nerve of Trump. He claims to be the "least anti-Semite ever", "the least racist person ever". This is a lie. Trump uses his daughter's conversion as proof? You must be joking! With Bannon and the Breitbart horde of White Supremacists in Trump's ear daily with talk of making America All White Again, we have much to fear. The desecration of Jewish cemeteries in Upstate is atrocious. There are many Haters who now believe Trump has given them credence to exact their Hate on people not like them.
The trains are lining up here on the West Side, ready to take all the immigrants out of the country. They will stay there, empty, because if we citizens do nothing to aid and abet the authorities there is nothing they can do. From now on, if we see something we will not say something. Mum's the word. Impeach Trump and Pence before this nation is torn asunder.
DD
Manhattan
5
WE are, or should be again, a Capitalistic, Jeffersonian Society abiding by our Constitution and law! We have for the last 46 years slipped into a Western Socialism that paralleled our economic withdrawal.
It is time to drop subtleties and revert to a true form of aggressive Capitalism! Trump is mildly aiming to that direction. I advise an even more energetic approach! Fangs Out!
It is time to drop subtleties and revert to a true form of aggressive Capitalism! Trump is mildly aiming to that direction. I advise an even more energetic approach! Fangs Out!
2
Trump has only Attila values (a management book in the 80's) where only winning matters. This is similar to what Lombardi said: winning iss the ONLY thing All Trump wants to do is to win. So he always needs an enemy. he believes that his ruthless inhuman immigration slogans made him a wiiner so he will do that. He will lie, cheat, break law, whatever. .We know his idol is Putin, and may also be Mao and Stalin. THey were strong leaders and winners like Andrew Jackson. If his actions start losing, his policies and values will change. We don't know how many laws he has broken in his tax return Does he have any tax return, any year that is not under audit?
3
Call write text email your representatives in Congress and the house the Legislature, Town hall, County executives etc. and keep it up. Health care is at a stalemate because that is what so many people did. Comments in the NYT are interesting but have very little affect on our governing bodies.
1
Are we now going to tear apart families? Is that who we are as a country?
No, and no.
Illegal aliens who are deported can take their children with them. In fact, they should do so in order to keep the family intact. What type of parent would not place the welfare of their children first?
No, and no.
Illegal aliens who are deported can take their children with them. In fact, they should do so in order to keep the family intact. What type of parent would not place the welfare of their children first?
3
I don't disagree with a sane immigration policy, but there is a trend to all that Trump does. Enforce a new rule without much vetting, deal with fallout later. Like his first 7 nation travel ban. Pure pandemonium.
Or sometimes it's what he says or doesn't say. Like the absence of any reference to Jews in a speech on the holocaust (I'd like to hear a conversation between him and his son-in-law on that one). So now it is fashionable to bomb threat Jewish centers and destroy cemeteries. Extreme white Nationalists or maybe ISIS sympathizers? Some people are just incapable of empathy. Trump's spends a LOT of energy focused on self.
Or sometimes it's what he says or doesn't say. Like the absence of any reference to Jews in a speech on the holocaust (I'd like to hear a conversation between him and his son-in-law on that one). So now it is fashionable to bomb threat Jewish centers and destroy cemeteries. Extreme white Nationalists or maybe ISIS sympathizers? Some people are just incapable of empathy. Trump's spends a LOT of energy focused on self.
3
The New York Times reversal on the issue of illegal immigration since becoming a partisan blogsite is remarkable. In February 2000, the New York Times editorialized that “the primary problem with amnesties is that they beget more illegal immigration. Demographers trace the doubling of the number of Mexican immigrants since 1990 in part to the amnesty of the 1980's. Amnesties signal foreign workers that American citizenship can be had by sneaking across the border, or staying beyond the term of one's visa, and hiding out until Congress passes the next amnesty. The 1980's amnesty also attracted a large flow of illegal relatives of those workers who became newly legal. All that is unfair to those who play by the immigration rules and wait years to gain legal admission.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2000/02/22/opinion/hasty-call-for-amnesty.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2000/02/22/opinion/hasty-call-for-amnesty.html
4
Advocacy often makes for strange bedfellows. In this case, all these self-identified compassionate people are defending a system where millions of people become throwaway low-cost workers to be exploited by our economic system, and that is the desired outcome because that is the most compassionate thing to do.
They would claim that we need to allow millions to break the laws. Changing the system will cause drastic economic impacts, increase the cost of food, gardening, and other low-wage services. This will teach one group to recognize that changing policies will affect them, but how exactly is that humane?
Does it ever enter the consciousness of the compassionate that they are endorsing a form of modern slavery?
Claims of empathy are equally tempered with the odd belief that employing millions of workers with little or no rights is somehow a good thing, for them or us. Having an underclass of people is better for who?
So we don't deport people. That is the answer. We keep millions of people in a constant state of fear so our economy can continue to take full advantage of the undocumented people in our society who have no rights as workers.
What is wrong with everyone? Doesn't anyone see the obvious contradictions? Not sending people back is not a better option than sending them home.
We've created a Mexican standoff with actual Mexican people.
They would claim that we need to allow millions to break the laws. Changing the system will cause drastic economic impacts, increase the cost of food, gardening, and other low-wage services. This will teach one group to recognize that changing policies will affect them, but how exactly is that humane?
Does it ever enter the consciousness of the compassionate that they are endorsing a form of modern slavery?
Claims of empathy are equally tempered with the odd belief that employing millions of workers with little or no rights is somehow a good thing, for them or us. Having an underclass of people is better for who?
So we don't deport people. That is the answer. We keep millions of people in a constant state of fear so our economy can continue to take full advantage of the undocumented people in our society who have no rights as workers.
What is wrong with everyone? Doesn't anyone see the obvious contradictions? Not sending people back is not a better option than sending them home.
We've created a Mexican standoff with actual Mexican people.
6
The glaring omission of any language targeting employers is chilling. People would not come here, if other people were prosecuted for hiring them. Seems far less expensive to issue fast process citations to employers ,with steep fines and possible imprisonment, than erecting all kinds,of infrastructure to detain and process these economic refugees.
Kind of like stifle the demand, you will staunch the flow of the supply.
Kind of like stifle the demand, you will staunch the flow of the supply.
4
Am I the only one who believes that Trump is deliberately stoking outrage in hopes of starting a civil war he could then use to justify declaring martial law?
What else explains the horrendous things he's doing, many of which have massive opposition? As much as half of the electorate opposed to these things - maybe more?
Is Trump really convinced those who votes for him - a minority of the country - really want the end of PBS, really want to see millions of people torn from their children and deported, really want the U.S. to go to war against Iran, really want filth and sludge dumped into their rivers, lakes and streams to satisfy coal companies, pesticide companies, slaughterhouses?
Donald Trump intends to end democracy.
WAKE UP.
What else explains the horrendous things he's doing, many of which have massive opposition? As much as half of the electorate opposed to these things - maybe more?
Is Trump really convinced those who votes for him - a minority of the country - really want the end of PBS, really want to see millions of people torn from their children and deported, really want the U.S. to go to war against Iran, really want filth and sludge dumped into their rivers, lakes and streams to satisfy coal companies, pesticide companies, slaughterhouses?
Donald Trump intends to end democracy.
WAKE UP.
3
I just can't take it any more! The hatefulness of this administration is beyond belief and tolerance. What to do? Last night I watched PBS's American Masters series that featured Maya Angelou. At the beginning was a statement by Hillary Clinton. It was the first time I've seen or heard her since the election. I felt like someone had stabbed me in my heart. Later President Clinton talked about asking her to write and deliver a poem at his inauguration. He spoke of his admiration for her and the fact that much of her childhood was spent in Stamps, Arkansas about 25 miles from his childhood home of Hope. Neither of these estimable people were born with a silver spoon in their mouths, they had to work hard for their future success. To watch Ms. Angelou deliver her poem brought me back to a far better time. Hillary later said when she and Bill first met they talked about her book "Why the Caged Bird Sings". Can anyone imagine Donald and Melania talking about books when they first met. I am glad Ms. Angelou died in 2014 and did not live to see the tragedy that has descended upon this land; to be witness to the vulgar, hateful man now occupying the White House after President Obama finished his term. America I cry for you, for me, for our immigrants. Where is the greatness now? We have gone over the cliff and are treading in the mud of the swamp.
4
Wait until the cost of living goes up in all arenas and Trump tells you that, in order to receive benefits, you have to take that local dishwashing or landscaping job.
There are always consequences. When you make a big change, it is at least doubled on the flip side. Some of us know that and account for it. Even then, we can be blind-sided.
When you press that red button, it feels to great to you for a second, but the sadness that results will last a long time and affect multitudes.
There are always consequences. When you make a big change, it is at least doubled on the flip side. Some of us know that and account for it. Even then, we can be blind-sided.
When you press that red button, it feels to great to you for a second, but the sadness that results will last a long time and affect multitudes.
1
The timing of this article is extremely hypocritical when you consider that Obama deported more than 2.5 million immigrants. That's more than any president before him.
Why wasn't this an issue for Obama but it is now for Trump? Because of politics.
Why wasn't this an issue for Obama but it is now for Trump? Because of politics.
6
This country is in danger of having Mr. Trump's Deportation Force replace the Statute of Liberty as our national emblem. Since its founding, this country has been idealized as the place where people seeking freedom, refuge from hatred could come and live in peace. Now the borders are being shut to refugees fleeing from oppression,people seeking opportunity for a better life, or students seeking a quality education. More pronounced and threatening is a deportation force is being deployed to drive out millions of people living in this country,countless for many years, the vast majority of whom,present no threat to anyone. They work,they pay taxes,they contribute to our communities. The irony is at the same time the President's family is posting job listings specifically for foreign nationals to work in their vineyard in Virginia and elsewhere. This would not be necessary if the Republicans in Congress had not defeated efforts for Immigration reform. Xenophobic fear has overcome a history of welcoming people seeking asylum from terror and hatred. Mr. Kelly in the service of Mr.Trump is placing a blindfold on the Statute of Liberty.
3
It's "amusing" to think if previous Presidents had taken the same approach to immigrants as our current one. Perhaps we would have been spared Mr. Giuliani, among others members and backers of the current administration.
2
I'm no fan of Trump but this plan is not so different than Obama's. The accompanying incendiary language for the base is nauseating but the net result may not be so different. I suspect it will only be a slight difference in degree. Same with Trumpcare versus Obamacare and much of our foreign policy. Trump is a horror but maybe he will only push the pendulum a few degrees to the right. Maybe his greatest contribution will be to bad taste.
2
Largely absent from the media discussion about undocumented immigration is a description of the extent to which this is really a problem or an issue. There is an implication that there is a "problem", but the little meaningful reporting that has been done on the scope of the "problem", for instance James Fallows' work, suggests that not only is undocumented immigration not particularly problematic, but in fact is a critical element of viability in cities across the country that are already struggling economically, such as Erie and Fresno.
Like so many of the scapegoating tactics that the Republicans and Trumpists, enforcing a solution to a non-existent problem will only hurt those communities that are already struggling. When the media fails to frame the issue in a meaningful way, it only contributes to this tragedy.
Like so many of the scapegoating tactics that the Republicans and Trumpists, enforcing a solution to a non-existent problem will only hurt those communities that are already struggling. When the media fails to frame the issue in a meaningful way, it only contributes to this tragedy.
3
I am an immigrant to the US and absolutely disgusted by the executive orders that are in the making. That said, let's not pretend that the majority of Americans does not agree with them.
Yesterday The Hill published results from the Harvard-Harris survey. Over 80% of participants declared they were against sanctuary cities. 80 percent! That is a level of consensus more typical of the National Congress of China than of the public in a democratic country. Other questions in the survey produced similarly dismaying results, both with respect to the special rules for the seven countries and the deportation force. Overall, the USA approves of Trump's immigration policies.
The American values are what the American people considers as values. It may be that a positive attitude towards immigration was once an American value. It is no longer.
Yesterday The Hill published results from the Harvard-Harris survey. Over 80% of participants declared they were against sanctuary cities. 80 percent! That is a level of consensus more typical of the National Congress of China than of the public in a democratic country. Other questions in the survey produced similarly dismaying results, both with respect to the special rules for the seven countries and the deportation force. Overall, the USA approves of Trump's immigration policies.
The American values are what the American people considers as values. It may be that a positive attitude towards immigration was once an American value. It is no longer.
1
The US is no longer a moral leader - not with inhumane policies like this.
7
The majority of Americans want immigration laws upheld.
They also see the value of allowing low-skilled people to come here to work in the farming and tourism industries.
But these industries must be forced to comply with immigration laws: Sponsor people wanting to come work so they can work toward citizenship and pay them fairly.
They also see the value of allowing low-skilled people to come here to work in the farming and tourism industries.
But these industries must be forced to comply with immigration laws: Sponsor people wanting to come work so they can work toward citizenship and pay them fairly.
5
Trump is an assault on American values and I do not want my tax dollars paying for his madness. It is time to invoke Article 24 and get this lunatic out of the White House.
5
Required reading, from the Times, 2/9:
"California Farmers Backed Trump, but Now Fear Losing Field Workers"
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/09/us/california-farmers-backed-trump-bu...
This article highlights in stark relief how confused our immigration policy is, and how simplistic and ill-advised Trump's plan to deal with it is.
Regardless of what the actual law is, we have a long-standing policy of allowing "illegals" to work, live, and raise families here. As a result, they have become an integral part of our economy, as well as our communities. Humanitarian considerations aside, deporting them en masse will send a shock wave through the system, resulting in huge losses for businesses in the short term, and, more than likely, increased costs for consumers in the long term. It's also doubtful that there would be enough domestic workers willing and able to take on the mostly menial jobs currently performed by illegals.
Beyond that, there are all kinds of economic multiplier effects that occur as a result of illegals living here. One poignant example from the article discusses how the school district in one town largely populated by undocumented farm workers has been expanded to support their children, and how funding cuts and job losses resulting from a crackdown would effect everyone.
Trump is just throwing red meat to his racist, xenophobic base here, and it's no substitute for the nuanced immigration reform we clearly need.
"California Farmers Backed Trump, but Now Fear Losing Field Workers"
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/09/us/california-farmers-backed-trump-bu...
This article highlights in stark relief how confused our immigration policy is, and how simplistic and ill-advised Trump's plan to deal with it is.
Regardless of what the actual law is, we have a long-standing policy of allowing "illegals" to work, live, and raise families here. As a result, they have become an integral part of our economy, as well as our communities. Humanitarian considerations aside, deporting them en masse will send a shock wave through the system, resulting in huge losses for businesses in the short term, and, more than likely, increased costs for consumers in the long term. It's also doubtful that there would be enough domestic workers willing and able to take on the mostly menial jobs currently performed by illegals.
Beyond that, there are all kinds of economic multiplier effects that occur as a result of illegals living here. One poignant example from the article discusses how the school district in one town largely populated by undocumented farm workers has been expanded to support their children, and how funding cuts and job losses resulting from a crackdown would effect everyone.
Trump is just throwing red meat to his racist, xenophobic base here, and it's no substitute for the nuanced immigration reform we clearly need.
7
Follow the money. Who makes money from this. Many do.
2
On a practical note, who's going to care for the anchor babies when their parents are deported. These children born in the United States are citizens, just as surely as I. This is going to put a strain on state resources far exceeding whatever imaginary toll illegal immigration takes. This is a poorly thought out policy.
2
In the words of the late, great Frank Zappa: "Scab of a nation driven insane".
2
I think the Editorial Board reveals itself to be extremely narrow-minded in its frame of reference.
Ellis Island experience existed only for a brief 40 years or so.....and it effectively ended about 60 years ago.....beyond the younger american generation's memory, other than constant half-truth reinforcement thru history lessons......
Far from being a "nation of immigrants", we may need to look ourselves in the mirror and appreciate the greater, more common connection amoung americans, is that we are a "nation of REJECTS". We are descended from the people who did not fit in, where-ever our ancestors came from. We are the wanderers.
We shed our "old world" identities, for the most part, keeping only what we found to be practical and useful for our survival. This is true whether we are from Spaniards invading Pueblos. Pilgrims on Plymouth Rock, PoorHouse Englishmen serving as headrights in Jamestown, Philadelphia Quakers, African slaves in quarantine on Sulivan Island, SC....and yes, finally, the teaming tired, hungry, poor, yearning to be free at Ellis Island.
This "immigrant" version of ourselves fit the narrative of the Industrial Age. Today, in the Electronic Age, of instantaneous global communications and trade....it no longer has the ring of truth. Marshall McLuhan was very prescient as he forcast the future from the 1960s.......indeed as the world becomes closer, the humans pull apart, seeking to lose their individuality and seek refuge in unique Tribal identities.
Ellis Island experience existed only for a brief 40 years or so.....and it effectively ended about 60 years ago.....beyond the younger american generation's memory, other than constant half-truth reinforcement thru history lessons......
Far from being a "nation of immigrants", we may need to look ourselves in the mirror and appreciate the greater, more common connection amoung americans, is that we are a "nation of REJECTS". We are descended from the people who did not fit in, where-ever our ancestors came from. We are the wanderers.
We shed our "old world" identities, for the most part, keeping only what we found to be practical and useful for our survival. This is true whether we are from Spaniards invading Pueblos. Pilgrims on Plymouth Rock, PoorHouse Englishmen serving as headrights in Jamestown, Philadelphia Quakers, African slaves in quarantine on Sulivan Island, SC....and yes, finally, the teaming tired, hungry, poor, yearning to be free at Ellis Island.
This "immigrant" version of ourselves fit the narrative of the Industrial Age. Today, in the Electronic Age, of instantaneous global communications and trade....it no longer has the ring of truth. Marshall McLuhan was very prescient as he forcast the future from the 1960s.......indeed as the world becomes closer, the humans pull apart, seeking to lose their individuality and seek refuge in unique Tribal identities.
3
Insert tired old Niemöller quote here.
This is the practice run.
This is the practice run.
4
Beware the slippery slope.
You think the Holocaust started with extermination camps? Nope. It began with comparatively benign policies, like prohibiting Jews from working in certain professions or from marrying gentiles. The idea was to get Jews to emigrate out of Germany.
When that didn't work, Jews' citizenship was revoked and assets were confiscated. Later, they were transported to ghettos. Finally, came the camps.
If Trump gets away with this, what will he try next?
You think the Holocaust started with extermination camps? Nope. It began with comparatively benign policies, like prohibiting Jews from working in certain professions or from marrying gentiles. The idea was to get Jews to emigrate out of Germany.
When that didn't work, Jews' citizenship was revoked and assets were confiscated. Later, they were transported to ghettos. Finally, came the camps.
If Trump gets away with this, what will he try next?
4
Want to bet that the funds to hire an additional 15,000 immigration agents will come from cuts in social spending? In the end the poor and middle classes always end up getting shafted under Republican regimes.
5
My question for Trump is, the obvious strategy to find Hispanics to deport is at their jobsites. So is the Trump administration planning to do raids on farms, restaurants, hotels, etc.? Moreover, why aren't there any business penalties for harboring non-citizens? Obviously he's not planning to hold businesses accountable in any way -- surprise, surprise!
So sad!
So sad!
5
Why do people who break into the country "deserve a chance to stay and get right with the law?" What rights do breaking our laws confer on those people who do so? The right to demand health care at the public expense? The right to demand education, even at the disruption of our schools ? The right to displace American workers? Not those who follow the lawful procedures of immigration...but those who make their own law at the public expense.
The assumption that Americans are obligated to solve the problems of every dysfunctional society by creating space and services for every person (and his/her family) who can crash the gates further undermines the already frayed social contract which is supposed to bind us together.
The assumption that Americans are obligated to solve the problems of every dysfunctional society by creating space and services for every person (and his/her family) who can crash the gates further undermines the already frayed social contract which is supposed to bind us together.
11
I have lived in six countries in my seven decades. One of my children was born in one of those countries. She could have become a citizen by birth in only two, the US and Japan but to become a Japanese citizen was onerous. None of the other countries extended the same courtesy and certainly not to someone whose parents were in the country illegally or "lured". I am not sure what the standards are at present but I have always felt it's a mistake to offer citizenship to the children of illegal immigrants, lured or otherwise. But I also think we need an easier system to allow employers to bring lower skilled workers to where there is a shortage of available labor. Most WVA and Ohio coal miners do not want to move to CA to pick fruit and for those employers in CA there aren't many options for getting that fruit off those trees and into our kitchens. I do think we should revisit automatic citizenship for those born in US, that I believe should hinge, in some manner, on the legality of their parents status. I think it might take one huge incentive out of individual's decision to have a baby in the US (this would include wealthy other mothers who fly in from all over the planet to deliver here for the same reason). I am what my alt right relatives call a "liberal" but I'd say I am a moderate and I think I might represent the core of this country.
4
Homeland Security and Border Control take the first steps to becoming the SS, deputizing local police who will shortly step from Good Germans to active agents of hatred. Hatred against those with dark-skin, the ones who can be easily ID'ed as immigrants.
Follow the trail to Russia and end this administration before our nation can murder its own soul, please.
Follow the trail to Russia and end this administration before our nation can murder its own soul, please.
4
These policies will make an end to any cooperation in finding "bad hombres" and, indeed, by fear and desperation, drive people in that direction.
3
The response that these policies are simply designed to enforce the law, e.g. to punish and deport those who engage in criminal activity don't seem to grasp that this is a policy that gives broad discretionary power to individual officers. The mere suspicion of potential criminal activity is sufficient grounds for immigration enforcement. In other words, they can come into your house and haul you away if they can say they think you're a criminal. Perhaps, down the road, you'll have your day in court, but by then your family's life will be in tatters. If that doesn't sound like a police state, I don't know what does.
2
The US is already "welcoming to immigrants" - there are millions of them settled into our population. It does not need to welcome those who have taken it upon themselves to arrive and to stay on in defiance of the law. They are already lawbreakers regardless of what else they may have done.
Of course, we may choose to be restrained and merciful in how we deal with them, but that does not modify the underlying principle.
At every opportunity, the media insist upon conflating legal migrants (whom the vast majority of Americans are delighted to have) with illegal ones. This only interferes with the possibility of having the level-headed discussions which need to occur.
Of course, we may choose to be restrained and merciful in how we deal with them, but that does not modify the underlying principle.
At every opportunity, the media insist upon conflating legal migrants (whom the vast majority of Americans are delighted to have) with illegal ones. This only interferes with the possibility of having the level-headed discussions which need to occur.
9
We whites do not own this land. Never did. But now that we are here in this land we ourselves usurped we can share it with others who, like our ancestors, came here for a life. The most frightening aspect of this "lawless" law is that we must rely on the sensitivity of the enforcers to do justice, sort of like in the Eric Garner case, I guess, who was strangled to death by several cops for selling "loose cigarettes."
4
There is only one humane way to solve this problem over the long haul: amnesty combined with a national ID system.
2
The artwork accompanying this editorial is fabulous. It captures the Kafkaesque terror, the cold bureaucratic facelessness of the state and the anger and paranoia of Trump and his henchmen. In one simple drawing, Golden Cosmos conveys the Russification of America.
3
As I opined yesterday, Republiccrooks have been lying for decades, claiming they stand for "family values." They are no more interested in "Families" than they are in doing good things for the people of this country. They are deplorable, indecent, and despicable, and all should be removed.
3
This is sickening and draconian. These actions exceed any form of rationality, and bring the harsh brutality of the Trump administration and its worldview into action.
This situation promises to foster an atmosphere of hostility and fear, which will target Latinos and other immigrants across this country, giving tacit approval to dehumanizing language and activities, hate crimes, and undue suspicion and harassment.
This is knee-jerk and asinine. It contains no intelligence or strategy, only the swinging of a bigoted, nationalistic sledgehammer.
To add insult to injury, this will undoubtedly be a financial boondoggle, allowing every agency, private business, and two-bit security contractor to gorge at the trough of public tax dollars. And this, from the Republican party-they of harsh austerity- who get outraged over our spending on healthcare and school lunches.
I, and the majority of American voters, do not want to live in a police state. This only proves that Donald Trump and the Republican party are as cruel, sadistic, and cold-hearted as I always suspected.
This situation promises to foster an atmosphere of hostility and fear, which will target Latinos and other immigrants across this country, giving tacit approval to dehumanizing language and activities, hate crimes, and undue suspicion and harassment.
This is knee-jerk and asinine. It contains no intelligence or strategy, only the swinging of a bigoted, nationalistic sledgehammer.
To add insult to injury, this will undoubtedly be a financial boondoggle, allowing every agency, private business, and two-bit security contractor to gorge at the trough of public tax dollars. And this, from the Republican party-they of harsh austerity- who get outraged over our spending on healthcare and school lunches.
I, and the majority of American voters, do not want to live in a police state. This only proves that Donald Trump and the Republican party are as cruel, sadistic, and cold-hearted as I always suspected.
3
Brave people in Poland, France, The Netherlands, even Nazi Germany, and elsewhere took Jews and other individuals and families on and hid them from deportation and worse during WWII. As the USA is now facing a near-equivalent final solution under Presidents Trump and Bannon, should we be trying to organize similar ways of protecting undocumented persons from similar fates? Deporting people back to countries or situations where they may be imprisoned, tortured, or killed by regimes or gangs they were trying to flee ranks way up there on the amoral spectrum. As Americans, shouldn't we do our part to uphold ethical values?
3
"Mr. Trump's 'Deportation Force' Prepares an Assault on American Values"
Does the New York Times really think that the United States of America VALUES those who violate the law? I thought the United States values equality under the law. A country cannot have EQUALITY if some are more equal that others and can violate the law with impunity!
Please stop with this false agenda before Americans start asking what laws they can violate with impunity.
Does the New York Times really think that the United States of America VALUES those who violate the law? I thought the United States values equality under the law. A country cannot have EQUALITY if some are more equal that others and can violate the law with impunity!
Please stop with this false agenda before Americans start asking what laws they can violate with impunity.
8
"A risk to public safety or national security." How easily such words under this adminstration could be used to include perceived enemies, or just people who some think are "different." Down the road, will Trump target Mormons, Catholics, or Americans who are Buddhists? Will unwed mothers, the disabled and poor be shipped to a fenced work camp in Alaska? Will those with a different skin pigmentation, who were born here, be required to sign a loyalty oath? Could we one day accuse a neighbor we don't like of being a "risk" and see him or her hauled off? Yes, we need fair and sensible immigration laws, but Trump is the human version of a slippery slope and ultimately the ruination of what America means to the world. Beware the dark side of the human heart.
4
Republicans would do well to remember that not only Obama, but previous (Republican) presidents also pursued policies to enable many undocumented immigrants to stay legally. 'Throw them all out' was not Republican policy.
2
This is an ugly moment in American history, and the saddest part about it is that the ugly is cruel theater, nothing more.
It is inconceivable that the Trump administration can deport 11 million. Eisenhower's "Operation Wetback" deported about 2 million; it was so sloppy that the numbers and names aren't really known; though many of those deported were actually US citizens -- just hispanic looking and having no paperwork and poor or no English.
Trump is playing to his base with this, but it will not materially change the problem of what to do about our illegal immigrants?
The even-worse reality is that beyond being kabuki, this is sure to be discriminatory. The reality about the illegal immigrants is that they are here because people who pay them want them here. It's always "all those illegal immigrants are bad, but leave mine alone." You should watch whose illegal immigrants get deported -- won't be those working for well-connected Republicans. Nor does this campaign involve any new sanctions or enforcement against those hiring illegals.
If the country really wanted the illegals out, then make E-verify mandatory for all employers. At present only Arizona does so, only AZ really wants them out.
It is inconceivable that the Trump administration can deport 11 million. Eisenhower's "Operation Wetback" deported about 2 million; it was so sloppy that the numbers and names aren't really known; though many of those deported were actually US citizens -- just hispanic looking and having no paperwork and poor or no English.
Trump is playing to his base with this, but it will not materially change the problem of what to do about our illegal immigrants?
The even-worse reality is that beyond being kabuki, this is sure to be discriminatory. The reality about the illegal immigrants is that they are here because people who pay them want them here. It's always "all those illegal immigrants are bad, but leave mine alone." You should watch whose illegal immigrants get deported -- won't be those working for well-connected Republicans. Nor does this campaign involve any new sanctions or enforcement against those hiring illegals.
If the country really wanted the illegals out, then make E-verify mandatory for all employers. At present only Arizona does so, only AZ really wants them out.
5
The rules that DHS issued yesterday appear to be overly broad and vague, and to violate due process as codified in the 5th and 14th Amendments.
I wonder who will challenge these rules on Constitutional grounds. I predict such a challenge would be successful.
I wonder who will challenge these rules on Constitutional grounds. I predict such a challenge would be successful.
2
Where are you getting "millions"? Are that many illegal immigrants regularly arrested and with living with outstanding warrants?
5
Most of the People coming across the Southern Border are Native Americans or of American Descent. How do they not qualify when they were here before the rest of us and they should get preference in coming here over people from across the seas.
1
Oh, right! We just call Manpower and have them send over 15000 unemployed NRA members. Part of current porosity relates to 85% of "guards" ' names ending in vowels or "Z". DC simply has no clue as to how life on the border is unique. Good luck to both sides.
1
Separate parents from children.
Tear families apart.
Divide communities.
Create endless personal tragedies in every town.
Rock us all back on our heels in pain and disbelief.
This is not America.
This is Trump's Reich.
Those who act in support of this will live in infamy.
America will survive this. But the pain will be unbearable.
Get the boxcars ready.
Build the detention centers.
Have we gone completely insane?
Jesus wept.
Tear families apart.
Divide communities.
Create endless personal tragedies in every town.
Rock us all back on our heels in pain and disbelief.
This is not America.
This is Trump's Reich.
Those who act in support of this will live in infamy.
America will survive this. But the pain will be unbearable.
Get the boxcars ready.
Build the detention centers.
Have we gone completely insane?
Jesus wept.
4
Hmm ... let's calculate 10000 agents plus 5000 other agents times 60000 salary each plus 120000 overhead each, at least 2,700,000,000 USD. But by the time this cockamamie project nears fruition the fiscally responsible budget deficit adverse US Congress won't pay for this back of the envelope figure (or what is more likely to be higher than this figure), once the people of the swamp (Oh, I forgot, the swamp has ceased to exist) work at it. So everything is OK. They can all jump off the bridge and die. So that's that. And oh, the families left behind can just suffer. And the Mexicans can pay for this too, even if the suicide cases are Hondurans and Salvadorans running away from gangs.
3
Illegal immigration is a slap in the face of all us that came here legally. We waited the better part of 5 years to get here and did so legally. Why do illegal immigrants get to jump the queue and now assert some rights?
8
Any provision for prosecuting those who employ someone who's in the country illegally?
3
With strokes of a pen, Trump and Kelly have turned the United States into a police state.
7
My tax dollars at work?
I say NO.
I say NO.
3
There is at least one sheriff in southern Ohio who will be thrilled by this turn of events. However, if law enforcement funnels money and effort into rounding up immigrants then that only means less effort being spent on the drug crisis. But maybe we'll get lucky and after even more people are killed on our highways by people strung out on heroin, and countless more children overtax already strained child welfare organizations, they will come to their senses and deal with the important issues.
In the meantime, I will continue to support Cincinnati's sanctuary city status.
In the meantime, I will continue to support Cincinnati's sanctuary city status.
3
Now we need to amend the Constitution to delete the provision that says anyone born in the US is an American citizen. This article was necessary when we had a huge country to fill, but no more. Wealthy Chinese women come to expensive clinics in LA to have their babies and return birth certificate in hand to China. Mexicans come over the border to have their babies and go back. Bill Richardson was a "drop baby." Europeans do not allow this form of automatic citizenship.
7
All unauthorized immigrants who work in the United States are felons. 18 USC Sec. 1015 states “Whoever knowingly makes any false statement or claim that he is, or at any time has been, a citizen or national of the United States, with the intent to obtain on behalf of himself, or any other person, any Federal or State benefit or service, or to engage unlawfully in employment in the United States” shall be fined or imprisoned not more than five years. Congress made posing as a citizens a felony offense because it undermines the nation’s ability to provide jobs for its citizens, controlled its borders, and regulate immigration.
6
You have corrupted our language (undocumented instead of illegal, deport for the act of sending an illegal enterer right at the border back across, etc.) to make a rational discussion of this problem impossible. I will use the actual words instead.
Illegal aliens mock those who have immigrated to the US legally, following the law and waiting their turn. They do not become citizens. In their protests, they wave foreign flags as if this country in which they are living must bow to this other, greater power. They outrage American citizens of the same ethnos who are lumped with these lawbreakers. They disgust their victims, like the father of Kathryn Steinle, shot to death on a San Francisco pier by a 5-time deportee and felon right in front of him.
You support demonstrations by immigrants to shame us. No one is against immigrants. All of us, even the Native Americans, are descendants of immigrants. We are against illegal aliens who have been allowed to ignore the law of our sovereign nation. And you fall back on your usual ad hominem attacks - paranoia, ill-will, authoritarian, out-of-control bullies - rather than any rational debate. Of course, your prostitution of the language shows you weren't going to do that right from the start.
Why are our immigration laws the only ones we are free to ignore? Why not bank robbery? I might rob a bank if you won't punish me for it. I'd give back 10% of my loot as a fine if you let me keep the other 90. You do that for Wall Streeters.
Illegal aliens mock those who have immigrated to the US legally, following the law and waiting their turn. They do not become citizens. In their protests, they wave foreign flags as if this country in which they are living must bow to this other, greater power. They outrage American citizens of the same ethnos who are lumped with these lawbreakers. They disgust their victims, like the father of Kathryn Steinle, shot to death on a San Francisco pier by a 5-time deportee and felon right in front of him.
You support demonstrations by immigrants to shame us. No one is against immigrants. All of us, even the Native Americans, are descendants of immigrants. We are against illegal aliens who have been allowed to ignore the law of our sovereign nation. And you fall back on your usual ad hominem attacks - paranoia, ill-will, authoritarian, out-of-control bullies - rather than any rational debate. Of course, your prostitution of the language shows you weren't going to do that right from the start.
Why are our immigration laws the only ones we are free to ignore? Why not bank robbery? I might rob a bank if you won't punish me for it. I'd give back 10% of my loot as a fine if you let me keep the other 90. You do that for Wall Streeters.
7
The good news is I haven't heard too many sanctimonious politicians standing on a soap box lecturing the rest of the world on human rights since Jan 20.
4
Where are the employers and recruitment and human trafficking agents in all this? Doesn't this all start with the demand side?
4
What kind of country are becoming to think that an American president who has sworn to uphold and defend the constitution would enforce the laws passed by Congress! The rule of law is NOT an American value! The original intent of immigration legislation was to help greedy capitalists deny rights to illegal immigrants making them very pliable workers as well as a tacit agreement with bleeding heart liberals not to actually enforce the law but allow them in anyway while throwing a sop to deplorables who really don't want immigrants. Now, to turn that law on head and enforce it literally is a radical departure from the original intent of the framers of the statute. This plays right into the hands of hard-working Americans who play by the rules and think the country ought to put the concerns of citizens first, the very people who voted for Donald Trump! If this isn't an impeachable offense, I don't know what is.
2
This is outrageous. All decent men must display that rage within us against this injustice.
I fear now that these immigrants, who rely on the emergency room for healthcare, are not bringing their children in to be seen by qualified medical personnel for fear of being reported, detained and deported.
I now worry that children that might need medical care are being deprived in the greatest nation on this earth of the right to live by a misguided few for simple aesthetics.
It has been reported that many of these kids are not even going to school for fear of the "authorities".
This is not justice. What next; the Muslim Repatriation Act, The African Repatriation act, The Cuban or Puerto Rican Repatriation Act? What next while Russian and European "illegals" litter our shores?
I will fight this administration and all it stands for with the same courage and conviction that I possessed when my entire lineage went off to fight for this great nation.
I fear now that these immigrants, who rely on the emergency room for healthcare, are not bringing their children in to be seen by qualified medical personnel for fear of being reported, detained and deported.
I now worry that children that might need medical care are being deprived in the greatest nation on this earth of the right to live by a misguided few for simple aesthetics.
It has been reported that many of these kids are not even going to school for fear of the "authorities".
This is not justice. What next; the Muslim Repatriation Act, The African Repatriation act, The Cuban or Puerto Rican Repatriation Act? What next while Russian and European "illegals" litter our shores?
I will fight this administration and all it stands for with the same courage and conviction that I possessed when my entire lineage went off to fight for this great nation.
3
"Assault on American Values"? Really? Your editorial headline is typical of your bubble headed point of view. A just released poll states that 80% of Americans support President Trump's deportation policy. So it seems that "your" American values are not most America's values.
But this is is not something unusual for the New York Times. Recall election 2016. Your bubble headed polls had Trump losing America by 85%. Imagine that. Your read of "your" America was, to be kind, embarrassingly and galacticly wrong. Some would also say that your American pulse taking is, in reality, nothing more than fake news elitist propaganda!
And as in most of your editorials, your discredited and biased editorial board continues to have deaf ears and blind eyes, in most cases intentionally, to what real America has to say about American values.
Carry on bubble heads!
But this is is not something unusual for the New York Times. Recall election 2016. Your bubble headed polls had Trump losing America by 85%. Imagine that. Your read of "your" America was, to be kind, embarrassingly and galacticly wrong. Some would also say that your American pulse taking is, in reality, nothing more than fake news elitist propaganda!
And as in most of your editorials, your discredited and biased editorial board continues to have deaf ears and blind eyes, in most cases intentionally, to what real America has to say about American values.
Carry on bubble heads!
6
This is not American. It is cruel, it is lazy, and it will hurt our economy and our communities; it will hurt our standing in the world with our allies and our neighbors; it will breed the isolationism and terrorism that we are claiming to fight against. When did my country become a place where people are "rounded up?" There are humane and sensible ways to deal with immigration. It is too bad that Mr. Kelly and Mr. Trump do not wish to pursue them. I am so ashamed of America right now, because I know we are better than this. We ARE better than this.
4
I fear the thousands of Trump-loving border guards and immigration officers who have the latitude to decide if anyone is a threat to national security. A Quebec woman was recently was stopped at the US border and prevented from entering because of a Islamophobic border guard whose questions all centred around her reliious beliefs and, believe it or not, what she thought of Trump. She was a law-abiding, documented, peaceful Muslim woman who was not welcome in the US. This is truly an unwise case of "releasing the hounds" on what we all thought America stands for. SAD DAYS!
2
Many have rightly asked what will happen to the economy once twelve million low wage workers are rounded up, no longer working in our fields, hotels and restaurants. And they also ask what it says of our nation that many Americans are fine with this taking place. Also a good question.
But I have another question. Suppose we, as individuals, come across a young woman, undocumented, who tells us she knows it's just a matter of time before she's rounded up, too, and put in a camp. What will we do for her? Will we turn away, telling her there's nothing we can do to help her, when we know we could help?
Many good citizens of European countries sheltered Jews and others fleeing a fascist state until they could again be safe. Maybe it's time for us to do the same.
But I have another question. Suppose we, as individuals, come across a young woman, undocumented, who tells us she knows it's just a matter of time before she's rounded up, too, and put in a camp. What will we do for her? Will we turn away, telling her there's nothing we can do to help her, when we know we could help?
Many good citizens of European countries sheltered Jews and others fleeing a fascist state until they could again be safe. Maybe it's time for us to do the same.
4
So much fear that our nation's in crisis,
And around every corner lurks ISIS
So a demagogue rose
While reality shows
That our true biggest threat is now WHIsis.
And around every corner lurks ISIS
So a demagogue rose
While reality shows
That our true biggest threat is now WHIsis.
2
To continue to insist that the "Nation of Immigrants" mythology is still valid, is to remain stuck in last century. A refusal to aknowledge how much the entire planet has changed in the past 30-40 years.
There are now close to 8 BILLION people on the planet......and everyone that wants to enjoy the "blessings of liberty" so forth and so on......simply wont fit inside the borders of the United States!
It is ridiculous to demand that the United States continue to behave as if Ellis Island is still the porch light luring all the lost souls in the universe into America.
Ellis Island only functioned for a brief 40 years or so....roughly 1880-1920....United States, existing as the one and only "protestant" nation(ie...no state religion, free thought, individual freedoms as opposed to tribal identity), has existed in one form or another for a much longer 400 years. Keep a proper perspective on YOUR american heritage.
At Ellis Island, arrivals had a ONE-way ticket, generally subsidized by American shippers, , where everyone was inspected, detected, injected, and often RE-jected. And most actually wanted to become 'american" as fast as they could.
Today's immigrant does NOT fit that mold. Today's immigrant often arrives as a tourist, student, H1B or refugee, with NO intention of becoming american....and often has a Return ticket home.
The Electronic Age allows these "immigrants" to remain connected to the very oppressive culture they claim they seek to escape!
There are now close to 8 BILLION people on the planet......and everyone that wants to enjoy the "blessings of liberty" so forth and so on......simply wont fit inside the borders of the United States!
It is ridiculous to demand that the United States continue to behave as if Ellis Island is still the porch light luring all the lost souls in the universe into America.
Ellis Island only functioned for a brief 40 years or so....roughly 1880-1920....United States, existing as the one and only "protestant" nation(ie...no state religion, free thought, individual freedoms as opposed to tribal identity), has existed in one form or another for a much longer 400 years. Keep a proper perspective on YOUR american heritage.
At Ellis Island, arrivals had a ONE-way ticket, generally subsidized by American shippers, , where everyone was inspected, detected, injected, and often RE-jected. And most actually wanted to become 'american" as fast as they could.
Today's immigrant does NOT fit that mold. Today's immigrant often arrives as a tourist, student, H1B or refugee, with NO intention of becoming american....and often has a Return ticket home.
The Electronic Age allows these "immigrants" to remain connected to the very oppressive culture they claim they seek to escape!
5
another attempt by the EB (shouldn't we call it the AB for anonymous board, as none of them have the guts to sign their name to their screeds) to demonize Trump.
But nowhere in this piece of journalistic legerdemain do I see written the number of illegals deported by Obama --- which was in fact in the millions.
You're clearly in the camp of -- if Trump does it, it's bad. Which is ridiculous. And highly partisan. And divisive.
We have a right as a country to protect our borders and determine who we let in. Illegal immigrants who sneak across the border have forfeited their claims to residency or potential citizenship as they have circumvented our law.
If someone has been here for a long time and has children who were born here -- and if they haven't violated the law, aren't gang members, then we need to give them special dispensation. And we should make arrangements so that needed workers can stay as long as they aren't criminals.
But none of this open borders garbage. And the Dems need to admit that their policy is not based on humanitarian grounds but on the strong likelihood that large numbers of immigrants will eventually swell party rolls.
And why don't you guys sign your names? Really. The dirty little secret here is that the EB is comprised of news department heads -- hard to see that there is any kind of firewall between news and opinion when the news chiefs write opinion. So let's see who you are? Off with the masks.
But nowhere in this piece of journalistic legerdemain do I see written the number of illegals deported by Obama --- which was in fact in the millions.
You're clearly in the camp of -- if Trump does it, it's bad. Which is ridiculous. And highly partisan. And divisive.
We have a right as a country to protect our borders and determine who we let in. Illegal immigrants who sneak across the border have forfeited their claims to residency or potential citizenship as they have circumvented our law.
If someone has been here for a long time and has children who were born here -- and if they haven't violated the law, aren't gang members, then we need to give them special dispensation. And we should make arrangements so that needed workers can stay as long as they aren't criminals.
But none of this open borders garbage. And the Dems need to admit that their policy is not based on humanitarian grounds but on the strong likelihood that large numbers of immigrants will eventually swell party rolls.
And why don't you guys sign your names? Really. The dirty little secret here is that the EB is comprised of news department heads -- hard to see that there is any kind of firewall between news and opinion when the news chiefs write opinion. So let's see who you are? Off with the masks.
7
The NY Times is imploding onto itself with its editorials and taking the Democratic party with it. Bon voyage.
P.S. Will you take all the illegals to the towns where the editorial board members live? What's that? The towns where editorial board members live are for the super rich. That is what I thought. Hypocrites.
P.S. Will you take all the illegals to the towns where the editorial board members live? What's that? The towns where editorial board members live are for the super rich. That is what I thought. Hypocrites.
8
I live in a sanctuary state (Oregon) and a sanctuary city (Portland). I will oppose this in any way I can. Any way. It smacks of fascism and the boot.
5
We've got to give him credit: he keeps his promises even if nonsensical pandering to the poor angry White middle Americans who elected him.
A bone fide leftist, I have absolutely no reservations about: a. doubling down on border enforcement to reduce influx, b. deportation of anyone here illegally who has been convicted of a violent crime. I'll bet we could all agree on that. (But please don't waste my money on a show-wall that achieves only negative results)
Beyond that, to deport anyone here illegally will create an internal siege, that will further divide us, violate our (at least historic) sense of self-decency, probably undermine the economy (angry Whites picking fruit . . . but hard labor might be just what they deserve) and demonstrate overt racism (unlikely we'll deport illegals from Europe) that more than half of our populace abhors.
All to placate angry white, mean-spirited bigots whose generation will die soon anyway, leaving the more enlightened millennials with this legacy of hate. A national disgrace. Let's fix the problem without this scorched earth vengeance, anathema to our values.
A bone fide leftist, I have absolutely no reservations about: a. doubling down on border enforcement to reduce influx, b. deportation of anyone here illegally who has been convicted of a violent crime. I'll bet we could all agree on that. (But please don't waste my money on a show-wall that achieves only negative results)
Beyond that, to deport anyone here illegally will create an internal siege, that will further divide us, violate our (at least historic) sense of self-decency, probably undermine the economy (angry Whites picking fruit . . . but hard labor might be just what they deserve) and demonstrate overt racism (unlikely we'll deport illegals from Europe) that more than half of our populace abhors.
All to placate angry white, mean-spirited bigots whose generation will die soon anyway, leaving the more enlightened millennials with this legacy of hate. A national disgrace. Let's fix the problem without this scorched earth vengeance, anathema to our values.
2
Our first taste of just what Gen Kelly will do! And he was suppose to be a man of values!
A shaming of America-- we have let the fanatics take over our country!
A shaming of America-- we have let the fanatics take over our country!
3
When on the campaign trail Pres. Trump made it patently clear that he held the Constitution in contempt, that, if elected, he would do as he pleased, after all he's Donald Trump. He, like G W Bush before him, center pieced his main focus on convincing the American people to be afraid, create an atmosphere of fear and you've got it made. This was accomplished with the complicity of the Republican party. They have turned the US into a country of wimps who owe so much to the "greatest generation" and have turned a blind eye to what truly makes America great.
1
Can we dispense with Natzi comparisons? Comparing the deportation of people who are here illegally and have broken laws to the round up and mass murder of 6 million Jews is despicable. Obama deported 2.8 million people, so that must make him Mao Tse Tung.
I am living in Mexico. If I over stayed my visa, stole a car and was arrested for drunk driving what do you think the Mexican government would do?
I am living in Mexico. If I over stayed my visa, stole a car and was arrested for drunk driving what do you think the Mexican government would do?
7
Seems to be loads of money available for deportation, military, but none for healthcare. Sad
3
The "assault on American values" occurred when criminals illegally entered our country and broke our immigration laws. Whine all you like about the "injustice" the administration's actions, but a good portion of us see this as the pinnacle of justice. Just sayin'
5
Why don't we JUST fix what's not working with our immigration policies? Our immigration system is badly broken. But consecutive Congresses have failed to update the immigration program for 27 years. Foreign nationals can wait more than a decade for a green card. The lottery system for worker visas is overburdened. And 11 million unauthorized immigrants live in the shadows.
Yes, we need to enforce the current laws but when you have States and many cities doing their own thing (ie sanctuary cities, etc.) and the Feds pushing their own agenda then no one will be enforcing the same laws in the same manner. How do you send a consistent message all the way to the local level? How do you enforce that if districts won't comply? (and no you can't withhold Fed funding unless it directly related to immigration/policing)
Besides the construction industry, do you think Trump will just round up the illegals that are more than 50% of the agricultural workforce in America? Yeah, right.
Yes, we need to enforce the current laws but when you have States and many cities doing their own thing (ie sanctuary cities, etc.) and the Feds pushing their own agenda then no one will be enforcing the same laws in the same manner. How do you send a consistent message all the way to the local level? How do you enforce that if districts won't comply? (and no you can't withhold Fed funding unless it directly related to immigration/policing)
Besides the construction industry, do you think Trump will just round up the illegals that are more than 50% of the agricultural workforce in America? Yeah, right.
1
Hiring 15,000 new immigration officials, deporting a large number of people, building a wall, building new detention facilities, expanding the number of judges will come with a massive price tag. Coupled with the expected tax cuts and the rebuilding of our allegedly hollowed out military, we are looking at a major increase in the deficit. Deficit scolds in the GOP have spent the last 20 years warning us about the danger of deficits. The new Director of OMB has led the charge. We will now get a chance to see if this was all about the Democrat in the White House, or if this was a principled stand. I'm betting on the former.
1
Those who argue that the law must be enforced are missing the point. It's not the letter of the law that matters so much as the spirit. After all, we have had a number of laws in our history that were rightfully ignored or broken, and if they hadn't been rejected by the people in practice (and sometimes by our elected leaders), they might never have been overturned. Anyone who has ever been pulled over for speeding and let go with a warning should understand that the law isn't always about throwing the book at people for every offense. Context matters. Common sense matters. The spirit of the law matters. This new immigration policy violates context, common sense, and the spirit of what we want to be as a nation. We should be ashamed of it.
2
We are shamed in the face of our hatefulness. Today is the day we lost any claim to greatness.
3
Since when does American 'values' include tolerating and supporting illegal behavior? This is an issue of fairness that those on the left of this country seem completely blind to. If we are all so adamant that we need and welcome those now being deported, where were the passionate pleas for immigration reform in the past 8 years? The problem is that we've said one thing (illegal) and allowed something else (hiring of undocumented workers) for far too long now. I doubt anyone reading this article would think they could fly to France and have a legal right to stay in France indefinitely.
4
Maybe it is time for Mr. Trump to deport those who commit anti-semantic crimes here in the USA? He has unleashed the monster of White Supremacy and those who support him now have license to go after those they deem not worthy to be in America. My God! What have we done?
2
To those who live in the bubbles of New York City, Chicago and LA, what part of illegal don't you understand? Also you are shocked that Trump is keeping his word, he told you that this was one of his campaign promises. He is only upholding current laws, not creating new ones. Americans love legal and controlled immigration, we don't like those who steal into our country for whatever reason, this is not in keeping with American values of upholding the law and rule of law.
7
Today I saw a poll on MSNBC that showed farmers who voted for Trump now fear the very migrant farm workers needed to run their farms will be deported, and the farmers are now afraid of the negative impact.
This would be rich if it weren't for the fact that people's lives are affected and not necessarily in a good way.
Hey, I am all for deporting the violent criminal element if they are here illegally. But uprooting families that had their children born on US soil? I am haunted by the face of the Hispanic woman deported two weeks ago, her tear-stained face behind the arrest screen in a round-up ICE van. How is that kind of implementation making the country safer?
This would be rich if it weren't for the fact that people's lives are affected and not necessarily in a good way.
Hey, I am all for deporting the violent criminal element if they are here illegally. But uprooting families that had their children born on US soil? I am haunted by the face of the Hispanic woman deported two weeks ago, her tear-stained face behind the arrest screen in a round-up ICE van. How is that kind of implementation making the country safer?
3
It seems cruel and unusual to me to suddenly snatch people off the street and transport them to a street in a foreign country with nothing more than the clothes on their backs.
3
It is clear that they have not given much thought to the overall impact of the policies they promulgate.
These orders will quickly have a terrible impact on communities, the US economy and our system of values that will be hard to overcome and rebuild.
These orders will quickly have a terrible impact on communities, the US economy and our system of values that will be hard to overcome and rebuild.
2
What these policies, as draconian as they are, do not spell out is what happens to people once they've been deported. Do they get dropped off in downtown Tijuana? Say this deportation program succeeds in rounding up a quarter of the 11 million illegal immigrants in this country. How will this not create a logistical nightmare and a humanitarian crisis in the country or countries where they end up? We cannot pretend that it's not our business if millions of law-abiding people end up in refugee camps dependent on the charity of relief agencies like the U.N. (to which President Trump is reducing U.S. funding) to avoid starvation and exposure.
1
Maybe we should begin an Underground Railroad for passage to Canada.
2
Don't like the law, change the law... not enforcing a law that is on the books is subjective enforcement that puts too much power in the people in government, not the law. Immigrants have a choice to make, authorized immigration or unauthorized immigration. When they choose unauthorized immigration, this is the risk they assumed and the price they must pay under current US law.
6
The media coverage of this is just absurd. I'm not a Trump supporter at all - except in that I support any president and hope our country succeeds. But I'm not going to say he is attacking American values by enforcing laws already in existence or trying to remedy a problem. I don't remember outrage when our last president or his team was deporting hundreds of thousands of people, or lying about the ACA or why Benghazi happened or the Iran deal or when he backed off the red line practically cementing Assad in place and leading to even more deaths and horrors for the Syrian people? But we get articles calling Trump a liar (I think so too) b/c he doesn't know trivial facts about his election - things that have no effect on our policies or success. Or we get stories about the sky falling because Flynn lied to the VP. I know presidents get isolated in office, but maybe editorial staffs do too, surrounded by like thinkers. Many long time Times readers (like myself) are just embarrassed at the coverage. The irony is that Trump is right about the press even if he blind to his own faults. Journalists are writing that it is dangerous for the president to denigrate the press? Why? Is he the one person in the country who doesn't have free speech? What is dangerous is that there is nothing we can read anymore about politics or anything that has become politicized without doubting its veracity or spin. If I were a religious person I'd pray that this does not infect the rest of your work.
4
How come deporting illegal immigrants is against American values?
7
There is a car wash near me I've been using for at least 20 years. Over all these years, the workers have always been all Spanish speaking men, led by one who takes my car wash order in halting English. Right after Trump got elected, instantly, all those workers are gone. Now it's all 20-ish white guys with Long Island and Queens accents. They are all working just as hard. I can talk to anyone now.
What nobody says is this: 1. Some employers exploit illegal and legal immigrants. 2. Many employers would rather hire illegals than African Americans. They don't have to worry about getting sued by an illegal, they don't trust black people. 3. Employment in low-skill jobs is a zero sum game. If an illegal man gets a job, a black 17-year-old youth is not going to get it.
The unemployment and hopelessness in our cities is directly linked to the illegals who have swamped our country and taken away working class jobs. Illegals often have superior educations, and some employers are racists of course.
Legal immigrants are also taking away jobs in the professional classes---professors, engineers, lawyers, and many doctors and dentists. Where I live dentists are in ferocious competition thanks to foreign born ones.
I did not vote for Trump, he's unstable. But stopping illegals is a huge gift to native born working class whites AND blacks who desperately need the jobs in their neighborhoods that are now filled by immigrants.
What nobody says is this: 1. Some employers exploit illegal and legal immigrants. 2. Many employers would rather hire illegals than African Americans. They don't have to worry about getting sued by an illegal, they don't trust black people. 3. Employment in low-skill jobs is a zero sum game. If an illegal man gets a job, a black 17-year-old youth is not going to get it.
The unemployment and hopelessness in our cities is directly linked to the illegals who have swamped our country and taken away working class jobs. Illegals often have superior educations, and some employers are racists of course.
Legal immigrants are also taking away jobs in the professional classes---professors, engineers, lawyers, and many doctors and dentists. Where I live dentists are in ferocious competition thanks to foreign born ones.
I did not vote for Trump, he's unstable. But stopping illegals is a huge gift to native born working class whites AND blacks who desperately need the jobs in their neighborhoods that are now filled by immigrants.
4
Fear and terror are the genuine goals of Trump's deportation plans. All immigrants are terrorized by this plan. While Trump cannot deport 11 million, he is terrorizing them deliberately. Estimates of undocumented children ranges as high as 3 million. Their parents may have to hide or be deported.
Prevented from legitimate work, what parent will accept homelessness and starvation? What are parents to do?
Criminals? They are always at risk and now they are shielded by the absurdly broad sweep, and by the non criminals who are suddenly grouped with criminals.
Trump is manufacturing a crime wave and justification of his tyranny.
The message to all Muslims is clear in this policy. They are next?
The pallid renunciation of anti-Semites put the Jewish community in reach of the white supremacists.
We an't wait to see how Trump mellows...
Prevented from legitimate work, what parent will accept homelessness and starvation? What are parents to do?
Criminals? They are always at risk and now they are shielded by the absurdly broad sweep, and by the non criminals who are suddenly grouped with criminals.
Trump is manufacturing a crime wave and justification of his tyranny.
The message to all Muslims is clear in this policy. They are next?
The pallid renunciation of anti-Semites put the Jewish community in reach of the white supremacists.
We an't wait to see how Trump mellows...
2
Will families be b broken up? Yes. But this is not our problem. The aliens should have considered this possibility before they reproduced. Now they must pay for their crimes like every other criminal in society. Those aliens not yet here should take heed. Learn the lesson of your people. Stay where you are.
2
The NYT is quick to hide behind law and the Constitution when it suits, but tends to be more "flexible" when it doesn't. If the law offends "deeply held American values" then the law should go. However it's more likely that the Times is just conjuring up a counter argument out of the mists in order to have something, anything to put up against proper enforcement.
3
When the wealthy start losing their under-paid un-taxed "household help" cooks, maids, gardeners - I am looking at you Mr. Puzder - will they raise the alarm with the White House. Trump will respond by having ICE go after children and families first and leave the "help" for last.
America First Runner Up - Trump Wins.
America First Runner Up - Trump Wins.
1
Eleven million people (or whatever the number) are in the United States without proper documentation. How did such a huge number get here? Because we allowed them to, and in many instances we invited them to. So we are complicit in their presence here. Now Trump wants to throw them out. Why? For political gain. That is not reasoned public policy. It is thuggery.
1
What part of "illegal" do you not get? They are criminals that broke the Federal laws of the United States and should be charged with a crime and quickly deported. This American tax-paying citizen is sick of paying the way for health care, education and any other manner of public assistance illegals collect. Deport them NOW!
5
A review of Obama's policy of giving priority to deporting illegal convicted felons is certainly legit, whether it can be improved. The problem is that it is being done by Trump.
Trump is a bigoted, rabble rousing, ego maniac, pathological lying demagogue. He starts with three strikes against him.
Trump is a bigoted, rabble rousing, ego maniac, pathological lying demagogue. He starts with three strikes against him.
1
This is the Republican party's version of eugenics. Now that Caucasians are becoming the minority, everything must be done to reverse this trend. Terrorism makes for a "reasonable" justification but I believe there's a much bigger agenda aimed at preserving the political power of whites.
2
If this implementation is successful, it is the start of a police state.
2
We r already welcoming to immigrants, and allow up to 5 million a year to resettle in the US. Juliana waited two years before she was allowed to come from her native country of Ghana, and since coming has proved to be a positive addition to the US, and is presently training to become an EMS technician. Liberals are great at spending other people's money, of favoring the foreign man and woman over their fellow citizens.Illegal immigrants cost the taxpayer billions of dollars per year and cheapen the work pool. drive down wages.Counter intuitive to not be an America Firster,not to put one's country ahead of other considerations.If you are a wealthy journo, earning in the 6-7 figures yearly, it is easy to take a holier than thou attitude towards those who favor Trump, and call them "nativist."On the other hand, if u r on the receiving end of languid immigration policies, and r unable to find work because of the plethora of "indocumentados" available at half the wages you r earning, you support Trump.To employ the old cliche,"A nation that no longer controls its borders is no longer a nation."
4
Next stop...Concentration Camps called immigration holding camps or something like that. And as the immigrants get "processed out" and shipped to their respective "home" countries, the room made available will be filled with demonstrators and anyone else how attempts to resist the fascists. So here we are. Trump and his hardcore supporters will be using methods learned in suppressing insurrection in Iraq and Afghanistan implemented by militarized police and ICE agents. It was clear as Trump appointed his War Cabinet that it was set up to wage war against the American people and their most cherished institutions. Don't you agree?
2
It doesn't matter who Trump wants to deport. It could be someone who committed the most heinous crimes and the NYT would be against it because Trump was for it. Admit it.
1
So this morning the 3 headlines on TV news were about fear.
Immigrants in fear about deportation, Muslims in fear about Islamophobia, Jews in fear about Anti-Semitism.
Donald Trump finally got something right !
"American Carnage"...and President Trump, you caused it.
Immigrants in fear about deportation, Muslims in fear about Islamophobia, Jews in fear about Anti-Semitism.
Donald Trump finally got something right !
"American Carnage"...and President Trump, you caused it.
2
Since when did enforcing the law become "an assault on American values?"
2
I wonder if Americans will have an attic for these poor people to hide in. Anne Frank's family found such humane people.
1
Republicans must be dealt a crushing blow in the 2018 elections. And then again in 2020.
6
Trump is using Latinos as the latest "scapegoat"
Notice, he has no interest in deporting Europeans who over-stay their VISA. Latinos are easily identifiable, they work picking fruits and vegetables, construction and as dishwashers. All the areas previously worked by white immigrants.
Like needing to demonized the media by asserting they are unfair to him. He uses Latinos to ease the self-inflicted situation experienced by uneducated, I'll trained poor whites.
Notice, he has no interest in deporting Europeans who over-stay their VISA. Latinos are easily identifiable, they work picking fruits and vegetables, construction and as dishwashers. All the areas previously worked by white immigrants.
Like needing to demonized the media by asserting they are unfair to him. He uses Latinos to ease the self-inflicted situation experienced by uneducated, I'll trained poor whites.
3
Brown shirts and black shirts return wearing ICE and Border Patrol badges. Frightening, very frightening
5
In response to the tweeter in chief’s orders to implement radical immigration policies, the elected Canadian Prime Minister will enact a radical decree that bans all white American Rednecks from entering the Canadian border. Rednecks are a danger to our security. We know they are all violent racists, they are anti-semite and they attack female genitals. They believe in alternate realities. They carry concealed assault weapons and they kill children by the dozens in schools and movie theatre. Plus they burn coal and diesel fuel just for the fun of it and cause thousands to die of lung cancer. (Just search “Rolling Coal” videos on YouTube.) I also suspect that they are all hidden gays and it’s their deep rosy side that makes their neck so red and sometimes orange. It would be a complete disaster to let these nasty criminals in. Extreme vetting will be done at the border using a simple algorithm. It will be based on 1) a straight line that runs from Atlanta, GA, to Great Falls, MT and 2) Zip Codes. Any white male with a zip code situated 500 miles on either side of the line will be immediately sent back after genetic markers have been taken and saved in the Canadian Redneck Database. This data, of course, will be shared with our Western Europeans friends. The decree will naturally be legal because the security of Canadians is a top priority.
3
Message to Congress: Don't fund this! We don't need it, don't want it and there are other far more important spending priorities. Same for the blank-blank Wall.
3
Setting aside the humanitarian considerations for a moment, I'm a little puzzled by some of Trump's calculus in all this. If he deports all the illegal immigrants, then who's transfer of money back to Mexico does he intend to block to force Mexico to pay for the wall?
2
Reports say that in many countries, except Russia, people are losing interest in even visiting the US. Will people living here legally decide America is so hostile to outsiders they would rather leave? By the time Trump supporters realize that showing hostility to the outside world and foreigners inside our borders has hurt us, it will be too late: the damage will have been done, and the only hope of reversing it will be if the world blames Trump and no one else.
2
The assault on American values is nothing new. Right wing propagandists and media darlings have been assaulting American values for years. Republican lawmakers across the country, with help from many Democrats who often knew better, but were too afraid of losing their jobs to stand against them, have been passing laws contrary to American values for years.
Now, with the election of Donald Trump and a majority Republican Congress, the radical right is about to capture the Flag.
The assault on American values didn't happen under cover of darkness, it happened in broad daylight. Now, only now, when that assault is nearing it's completion, is the the dark upon us.
Now, with the election of Donald Trump and a majority Republican Congress, the radical right is about to capture the Flag.
The assault on American values didn't happen under cover of darkness, it happened in broad daylight. Now, only now, when that assault is nearing it's completion, is the the dark upon us.
4
It is entirely possible that TeamTrump will form a new, privatized border-patrol force, without the necessary vetting and polygraph tests. This means that Mexican drug cartels can place moles in the force, and TeamTrump and his GOP collabos will get a "taste" of the profits.
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Erik Prinz, Betsy DeVos's brother, will come out of the woodwork of private equity and organize such a group. After all , he headed the infamous Blackwater.
We should legalize prostitution on the streets and in brothels, not in government.
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Erik Prinz, Betsy DeVos's brother, will come out of the woodwork of private equity and organize such a group. After all , he headed the infamous Blackwater.
We should legalize prostitution on the streets and in brothels, not in government.
3
Senator Obama, July 2, 2008, Colorado Springs, CO:
"We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded."
Maybe you should have paid attention then.
"We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded."
Maybe you should have paid attention then.
5
Yes, but what color are their shirts? I vote brown, so we know them for what they are.
5
"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
*****
Is this really the American way? Or have we, as Americans, lost our way?
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
*****
Is this really the American way? Or have we, as Americans, lost our way?
3
Trump is proposing to slap millions of productive people in some for-profit gulag before kicking them out of the country. I suppose the politicians will continue to paint this as some sort of exceptional country. That might have been true in 1945 but not now.
4
Here we do again - the Zimbardo experiment in real life. Zimbardo argued that the Guards acted the way they did because they conformed blindly to their assigned role. You know the rest. Now watch ICE. See: http://www.bbcprisonstudy.org/bbc-prison-study.php?p=17
2
How could we expect the former head of troops at Guantanamo to have a heart when it comes to treating people with decency and not breaking up families?
3
The 1910 Census of the state of Nebraska included 300,000 native-born Americans and 900,000 immigrants. Their descendants now favor Trump and a wall. In 1916, Randolph Bourne wrote about richly multicultural "Trans-National America," reminding us that "We have needed new peoples . . .to save us from our own stagnation."
5
Every day, I read news and accounts about events happening in my country. People I know and love are affected by these events. I am sickened and saddened beyond belief. Friends in England ask me, "How can this be happening in America?" When I was in England in October, they were amazed that someone like Trump might become president. I remember telling them that I thought it was highly unlikely that he would be elected. An aberration.
I am beginning to feel like an alien in my own land. I absolutely dread seeing news some morning soon of mass round-ups and deportations. I never felt afraid before last November. Feelings of fear now unexpectedly come over me at times during the day. I am afraid for my country and for all her people.
I am beginning to feel like an alien in my own land. I absolutely dread seeing news some morning soon of mass round-ups and deportations. I never felt afraid before last November. Feelings of fear now unexpectedly come over me at times during the day. I am afraid for my country and for all her people.
5
This new policy is too little and too late to save America from the consequences of the diabolical plot of Russian President Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin from his" Czar Peter the Great Scheme" to select Donald Trump as President of the United States.
Too bad that there was no Department of Homeland Security around to keep Donald John Trump's criminal prosecution evading cowardly German military draft dodging grandfather from fleeing to America. Along with keeping Trump's gold digger anchor baby seeking Scottish mother out of America. Nor did America need nor deserve two Slavic born and bred communist atheist gold digger models like the Czech Ivana and the Slovene Melania.
Too bad that there was no Department of Homeland Security to keep Mike Pence's Irish Catholic grandparents out of America.
Then again they could all offer to self-deport back to their ancestral homelands. Or they can volunteer to join the 0.75% of Americans who have put on the military uniform of any American armed force.
Barack Obama deported more human beings than any American President in history with his soft colored brown Kenyan Luo Muslim smile. Lady Liberty was embarrassed and shocked into silence by the irony and paradox. Trump is trying to grab her lady parts to hide our shredded Constitution.
What can and will we the American people do to stop our troublesome Siberian President?
Too bad that there was no Department of Homeland Security around to keep Donald John Trump's criminal prosecution evading cowardly German military draft dodging grandfather from fleeing to America. Along with keeping Trump's gold digger anchor baby seeking Scottish mother out of America. Nor did America need nor deserve two Slavic born and bred communist atheist gold digger models like the Czech Ivana and the Slovene Melania.
Too bad that there was no Department of Homeland Security to keep Mike Pence's Irish Catholic grandparents out of America.
Then again they could all offer to self-deport back to their ancestral homelands. Or they can volunteer to join the 0.75% of Americans who have put on the military uniform of any American armed force.
Barack Obama deported more human beings than any American President in history with his soft colored brown Kenyan Luo Muslim smile. Lady Liberty was embarrassed and shocked into silence by the irony and paradox. Trump is trying to grab her lady parts to hide our shredded Constitution.
What can and will we the American people do to stop our troublesome Siberian President?
1
What's so disheartening is the inhumane meanspiritedness in this new broader policy.
Creating opportunity for a new class of bullies to mistreat a newly created class of victims.
I'm not feeling much hope for mercy or second chances in this scenario.
Creating opportunity for a new class of bullies to mistreat a newly created class of victims.
I'm not feeling much hope for mercy or second chances in this scenario.
3
Obeying the law is an American value. Go on from there.
1
Congress is to blame for this, not any President. I must say "president" trump is over zealous in this area, only because his base loves it and that is all he considers. The real problem here is the law. Law enforcement needs to enforce the law of the land, however if the law is flawed it is up to Congress to fix it. The GOP controlled Congress has refused to address this issue for the last 8 years, they should do their job!!
2
If anyone/everyone in the U.S. can now be stopped and interrogated upon "suspicion" of some crime, no matter how small, it seems that we all will have to carry IDs with us everywhere we go, along with whatever other documentation required to prove that we are indeed citizens. Of course this will fall disproportionately on non-white folks; I doubt that the many Irish immigrants in the Northeast have much to fear. Isn't there any other way to sort this out that doesn't put us all at risk of being stopped and detained for (probably) no good reason?
1
I remember the drug gang armed convoys that traveled frequently up and down the major interstates in California during the '80's, during Reagan's "war on drugs," which went nowhere and led to the Iran-Contra scandal, wherein the biggest pusher and aide and abettor to the distribution of illegal drugs turned out to be.... the Reagan Administration. Ollie North as the fall guy. Wasn't Bolton involved with all that? You have the archives, NYT: give us some history.
The cops back then wouldn't go anywhere near these fearsome convoys, and it was scary to pass them, obvious as they were.
What do you think is going to happen, then, with the "war on immigrants"?
I suspect we're going to see similar arming, and mass retaliation, the likes of which this country has never seen before.
I'd hate to be a member of the police, or the National Guard, under these conditions.
Trump/Kelly's plans put them all in severe danger.
The cops back then wouldn't go anywhere near these fearsome convoys, and it was scary to pass them, obvious as they were.
What do you think is going to happen, then, with the "war on immigrants"?
I suspect we're going to see similar arming, and mass retaliation, the likes of which this country has never seen before.
I'd hate to be a member of the police, or the National Guard, under these conditions.
Trump/Kelly's plans put them all in severe danger.
2
Don't be fooled here. Illegal immigrants are the main target now for this deportation surge, but we have already seen the first version of a Muslim ban and widespread vandalism and bomb threats against American Jews. A new and presumably more legal version of the travel ban will be out any day and in effect soon after. If those who have vandalized the St. Louis Jewish Cemetery are not arrested, charged and prosecuted vandalism will not only continue it will surge. If those who have called in bomb scares to Jewish Community Centers all over the country, these calls will continue and escalate. If 45 does not strongly condemn and direct his AG and DOJ to prosecute these crimes to the full extent of the law, then the pattern for harassment has been allowed and it will continue. Don't be fooled. This immigration crack-down is just step one of escalated bigotry and racism in America
2
Where , oh where, is the decency of the republican members of Congress? Hiding to ensure reelection? The country is shamed by Mr. Trump and his ilk.
1
What about including all the white illegal immigrants such as the Russian mafiosi who control the sex industry in Miami and all the Eastern European prostitutes that abound there. Why are they concerned only about Latinos?
1
Deporting criminals will be a priority. They're all criminals. Once they passed into this country illegally they became a criminal. Keep the families together. Deport them as a family unit. Round up all those who overstay their visa and deport them. Abolish the H1B visa program. Don't allow pregnant Chinese women into the country as bringing them here in the later stages of pregnancy has become a cottage industry so their Chinese children can claim American citizenship later in life for colleges, jobs, and benefits.
2
American values? YES for LEGAL Immigrants, not illegals crossing our borders. Does anyone really think any Country could exist with open Borders to anyone that wants a change from their birth Country?
2
The horror of a president doing what he was elected to do. This is the number one reason Mr. Trump got elected (never mind the fact that Mrs. Clinton was an abysmal candidate). Keep doing what you are doing Mr. Trump.
3
This is the policy choice of a schoolyard bully: focus on the weak and the defenseless; hide your utter lack of humanity and compassion under the guise of "respect for the law". (Speaking of the law, how about those tax returns?)
Hysteria about "illegal immigration"--a minor problem in this country--is, of course, dog whistle for "all immigrants", especially non-white. They will get to the educated, professional ones in due course.
I am a Latino immigrant and US citizen. I'll continue to hire whomever I want to do a job I need done, and mine is a "sanctuary home": if someone I know needs protection, they'll get it. If some idiot asks to "see my papers" due to an accent, or perceived "foreigness", they'll have either mockery or a lawsuit in their hands.
Hysteria about "illegal immigration"--a minor problem in this country--is, of course, dog whistle for "all immigrants", especially non-white. They will get to the educated, professional ones in due course.
I am a Latino immigrant and US citizen. I'll continue to hire whomever I want to do a job I need done, and mine is a "sanctuary home": if someone I know needs protection, they'll get it. If some idiot asks to "see my papers" due to an accent, or perceived "foreigness", they'll have either mockery or a lawsuit in their hands.
1
Where are our leaders on this?
Why isn't the screaming louder?
Will we just let this happen?
It IS happening, folks. Does anyone care?
Why isn't the screaming louder?
Will we just let this happen?
It IS happening, folks. Does anyone care?
1
The NYT arrogantly assumes it knows and can define American values. My American values. The NYT then superiorly accuses Trump of assaulting these values. In non-fake news land, American values have actually been eroding for a number of years. In fake news land, Clinton was supposed to win by a landslide. But in non-fake news land, huge numbers of people turned out to vote for their American values, not the NYT's values, and Trump won. Paradoxically, the biased reporting of the NYT, has the opposite intended affect and encourages people like me to support anything that is anti-fake news - even to the point of supporting a deeply flawed President Trump.
2
"Surge." "Force multiplier." These are terms of warfare, not police action. Will all due respect to the general's military career, he's not in the Marines now. Placing such wide discretionary power into the hands of individual agents and officials is bound to leave many non-criminal targets subject to extortion by a few bad apples.
1
"Assault on American Values"...must be the ones about illegally entering the country?
2
So much hysteria and hyperbole.
We've always had a "deportation force". It's called ICE. My goodness, what does the NY Times label the local police, "incarceration forces"?
We've always had a "deportation force". It's called ICE. My goodness, what does the NY Times label the local police, "incarceration forces"?
5
Enough is enough already. If it walks like a duck, just assume it's a duck. The time to resist had arrived.
2
People seems completely obsessed with confusing legal immigration with illegal immigration. An illegal immigrant from Mexico immediately breaks two laws: 1) crossing the border illegally and 2) trespassing on private property. We have immigration laws. We have ALWAYS had immigration laws. It is not a virtue to defend people that willfully break our laws. Illegal immigrants are criminals. They need to be addressed as such.
3
If you are in the country illegally you are breaking the law and should therefore be deported. Period! Criminal or not. In many cases, the only reason why these people have children who are US citizens is because after ILLEGALLY entering the US they produced children. These are nothing more than ANCHOR babies to justify their continued illegal presence. l If they do not want their familes broken up they can all go to Mexico.
2
Unless you happen to call under one of Mr. Trumps voting blocks. Then the rules don't apply.
http://www.npr.org/2016/03/03/469005699/cubans-free-ride-after-crossing-...
"Cubans, on the other hand, have only to present a passport, then they receive food stamps, Medicaid, rent assistance and, eventually, a work permit and legal residence."
http://www.npr.org/2016/03/03/469005699/cubans-free-ride-after-crossing-...
"Cubans, on the other hand, have only to present a passport, then they receive food stamps, Medicaid, rent assistance and, eventually, a work permit and legal residence."
2
I cannot believe this is life now. THIS IS NOT NORMAL.
1
And then they came for me. ....
3
Our racist, know-nothing president, whose mental fitness is justifiably being called into question, won the election by striking fear into the hearts of people who weren't even aware they were fearful until he told them they were. Over and over and over again. Now he wants to follow up on his election "promise" by deporting people who are contributing members of society and whose absence will have an enormously negative effect on the economy. Ask restaurant owners and landscapers and builders and farmers and Trump himself how this will affect their businesses. Do you suppose he's given any thought as to who will manicure the grounds of his beloved golf courses? Yes, let's get rid of criminals. But let's embrace the millions who have assimilated peacefully into the country, built families and hold down jobs, and remember what the United States stands for.
3
In Orlando at a December 'Thank You Rally' President Trump told the crowd:
"I mean you were going crazy. I mean, you were nasty and mean and vicious and you wanted to win, right?"
These new deportation guidelines are just that - nasty, mean, vicious and racist.
President Trump is playing to his base and showing them in no uncertain terms how he is a 'winner'. This is what Trump supporters want.
I guess Obama's deportation of criminal illegal aliens was too slow, too thoughtful. It did not cause pain, humiliation and suffering caught in a photo.
Our new police state is meant to be a recurring show for Trump any time he needs to say 'See I am tough'. It is disgraceful.
"I mean you were going crazy. I mean, you were nasty and mean and vicious and you wanted to win, right?"
These new deportation guidelines are just that - nasty, mean, vicious and racist.
President Trump is playing to his base and showing them in no uncertain terms how he is a 'winner'. This is what Trump supporters want.
I guess Obama's deportation of criminal illegal aliens was too slow, too thoughtful. It did not cause pain, humiliation and suffering caught in a photo.
Our new police state is meant to be a recurring show for Trump any time he needs to say 'See I am tough'. It is disgraceful.
2
"America" welcomed immigrants when they were useful. There was never anything noble about it. Over the weekend I heard an interview with Sebastian Barry talking about his new book "Days Without End". Irish immigrants conscripted right off the boat to fight in the Civil War (both sides depending on where they landed) and in the Indian wars.
http://www.npr.org/2017/02/20/515806702/an-irish-immigrant-fights-on-the...
Other immigrants have been useful for other purposes.
http://www.npr.org/2017/02/20/515806702/an-irish-immigrant-fights-on-the...
Other immigrants have been useful for other purposes.
2
Once trump gets his Gestapo force and concentration camps running full blast, trump will certainly find other groups "that pose a threat" according fo white, rural America's prejudices, to keep his "well oiled machine" running. The Reichstag hasn't burned yet, I wonder who trump will blame and have an excuse to round up.
3
Congress has to fund this. If they do, it will either be the end of the Republican Party, or the end of the United States. I do have one question, after all the illegal immigrants are gone, who will be next?
2
I have heard no talk of unauthorized asian immigrants being targeted.
These rules, all the attention, seem only to target hispanic immigrants.
Is there outrage and fear in the asian immigrant community as well?
All the media reports focus on hispanics.
These rules, all the attention, seem only to target hispanic immigrants.
Is there outrage and fear in the asian immigrant community as well?
All the media reports focus on hispanics.
2
A QUICK FLASHBACK : Obama is no longer President.
Donald J Trump is the President, with a mandate. Part of that mandate is to control immigration. Control means through the front door, not the back.
This is not the first instance of a President attempting to stop illegal immigration, just look at Bill Clinton's attempt at controlling immigration, they were primarily empty words but they were spoken by Clinton himself.
The border must be sealed.
This is the first President who is attempting to fulfill his promises to the American people. ( I realize some knucklehead will point out that he did not win the popular vote, too bad, he played by the established rules and won )
So let us together move forward to cleanse our country of those who did not play by the rules, those that entered in the dark of night, those that fuel the underground economy, those that take and do not give.
5
In a democracy, you get the government you deserve. We are certainly getting it. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
2
So innocent people will be rounded up based on suspicion alone.
If anyone says this is not the case, he is lying.
If anyone says this is not the case, he is lying.
2
What "values" are those...disrespect for the law and lawlessness?
3
We can't afford to build a tunnel from NJ to NYC. We can't afford to fix our infrastructure. But we can afford the yuge costs to deport millions? Sad.
2
This is a declaration of war against "domestic enemies". it certainly won't make America great again.
1
This kind of action by the administration is a kind of poison wedge issue. When Liberals criticize it, the conservative base is strengthened. Really twisted. Who needs to make stuff up with what goes on these days.
2
Remember tactics like this and the "wall" are what destroyed China for a thousand years. The only fortunate thing is that he only has a few days, months, or at worst three or so years with any power. We must focus on the money and get him impeached as quickly as possible.
2
The headline on today's upper-right lead news story, "Trump Details Plan to Deport Mllions of Immigrants," dishonestly omits the word "illegal." I suppose the Times' editors can't bring themselves to acknowledge this reality, and therefore the issue of the rule of law. It illustrates where the true failure of values lies.
4
Will we see former coal miners picking vegetables as members of the United Farms Workers?
5
Why is enforcing existing immigration laws an assault on American values? If there was such an assault it was by the people who passed the laws.
2
Great news for all the unemployed "real Americans" who have been longing to get into fields like kitchen help and migratory field labor. The sun will shine on the Rust Belt once again!
Meanwhile, the enforcers will enforce unrealistic and discriminatory laws, which will stand unchanged.
Another triumph for ignorant reactionary ideology! Kudos to Trump and his crackerjack team!
Meanwhile, the enforcers will enforce unrealistic and discriminatory laws, which will stand unchanged.
Another triumph for ignorant reactionary ideology! Kudos to Trump and his crackerjack team!
2
Let's talk about DACA. This plan also seeks to deport large numbers of them. With their parents or caregivers gone, they lose their homes, means of support, entire livelihoods. Conclusion? They have to go too. Indirect but effective assault on DACA. What happens to the US born children of undocumented immigrants? Foster care?
2
The rule may have been written very broadly so as to avoid a challenge on the grounds that it targeted a minority. Trump said something vague along these lines in his press conference.
"As far as the new order, the new order is going to be very much tailored to the what I consider to be a very bad decision.
But we can tailor the order to that decision and get just about everything, in some ways, more. But we’re tailoring it now to the decision, we have some of the best lawyers in the country working on it."
"As far as the new order, the new order is going to be very much tailored to the what I consider to be a very bad decision.
But we can tailor the order to that decision and get just about everything, in some ways, more. But we’re tailoring it now to the decision, we have some of the best lawyers in the country working on it."
Removing 11 million people from the workfork force denies workers and purchasers. This will have a negative effect as the GDP becomes smaller. Alfred Chandler remarks in his history of the American econmy that immigration created demand as it gave workers jobs. This plan has not been discussed by the congress but promulgated by an autocrtatic executive. The lack od opposition by the congress leaves only the courts to oppose this autocracy.
1
With all these good hombres rounding up all the bad hombres (and by the way the person who deported more people in the last 5 administrations was......that liberal guy Obama), who is minding the store ? The bad "legal" hombres that will remain will have a much easier time of it. The police will be too busy chasing the illegals. And the people who will be the ones committing the mass murder in the US day in and day out? They will be stockpiling their ammo and weapons getting ready to go rogue. And when all the illegal bad hombres are gone, who will we have to blame for them ?
1
Well General Kelly oversaw Gitmo, and in his quote in the Miami Herald he says 'Columbia showed us the way". Columbia is a terrible example for any democracy.
https://www.democracynow.org/2016/12/13/vowing_to_stop_political_correct...
https://www.democracynow.org/2016/12/13/vowing_to_stop_political_correct...
3
I'm an aging white female Boomer, a liberal, a Democrat, and I think that Trump has all of the makings of a tyrant. I don't look like I'm Hispanic or black or Muslim or whomever the bad-guy-de-jour is, but I do have flashing green eyes and expressive eyebrows, and I do have trouble blindly and passively following authority. So it's not hard for me to imagine getting on the wrong side of the cops, and then being carted off to jail or a retention center, just because of my attitude alone. My people have been in the US for several hundred years, so if I voice my dissent and refuse to kiss Trump's ring, to what country are they going to deport me?
2
Step one: control the media. Step two: create a common enemy (Mexicans, Muslims). Step four: create fear in the community with threats of deportation. Have ID, all the time. Government to ignore home grown terror acts against Jewish Centers and Mosques. Step four: IRS, publication 1345, photo ID's for tax filing, a convenient way to keep tabs on everyone.
Step five: Media, please stop calling protests at Town Halls like the "Tea Party". This is much larger than that. The majority who voted for someone else gets that. We remember the past.
Step five: Media, please stop calling protests at Town Halls like the "Tea Party". This is much larger than that. The majority who voted for someone else gets that. We remember the past.
4
You should also mention that the Obama Administration deported a lot of people. But it prioritized those who posed the greatest threat. This new policy is more indiscriminate.
I'm a little dismayed that General Kelly - who presumably got to that rank by being smart and analytical - would take such an approach to the situation.
I'm a little dismayed that General Kelly - who presumably got to that rank by being smart and analytical - would take such an approach to the situation.
2
It never was about "homeland security".
Hold the Republican party responsible for the damage their anger and hatred have caused, they are the anti-American force ripping this great Country apart.
Hold the Republican party responsible for the damage their anger and hatred have caused, they are the anti-American force ripping this great Country apart.
2
Americans will come to regret this decision,if not for the immoral treatment of vulnerable people, then for the billions it will add to the deficit, with no benefit for the American people.
3
"The detriment of deeply held American values"?
The Americans I hang with believe that laws are to be obeyed. That's a deeply held American value. Have you ever sat at a dead intersection at 3AM waiting for the light to change? That's an expression of those values.
The Americans I hang with believe that laws are to be obeyed. That's a deeply held American value. Have you ever sat at a dead intersection at 3AM waiting for the light to change? That's an expression of those values.
3
My American values say America and Americans first. Deport every illegal alien with a criminal background, and deport every illegal alien who has illegally benefited from our social welfare benefits, to the tune of billion$ oof dollar$ annually according to our government. That's good sound immigration policy. Thank you President Trump and Secretary Kelley. It's about time.
2
If you want to dampen any enthusiasm local police departments have for participating in these immigration enforcement programs, roll back the civil/judicial forfeiture laws that allow them to share in seized assets. Local police departments have been using federal asset sharing programs for 30 years or more to enhance their budgets. They are the ONLY reason local departments want anything to do with taking on responsibilities not part of their own law enforcement duties. The practice lends itself to abuse and often makes for bad law enforcement as the seizure and forfeiture of assets becomes the raison d'être of the departments' participation.
2
We are millimeters away from a time when a cadre of "Trump Youth" are recruited to turn in their friends' parents or their nannies in the interests of the State. The phrase "jackbooted thugs" may again echo across the land as an army commanded by Obergruppenfuhrer Richard Spencer fans out from their enclaves to do Trump's bidding.
Too extreme, too unrealistic, you say? I sure hope so. But I will not go before my maker at heaven's gate as a "good German".
Too extreme, too unrealistic, you say? I sure hope so. But I will not go before my maker at heaven's gate as a "good German".
2
This is a complicated issue, indeed different for different immigrants but I see many 'black & white' conclusions drawn. I think the very first point that comes up is that the people being deported are here illegally. So I am wondering if people are suggesting we drop any claim to authority over our borders and let people come at their discretion. Certainly no one can argue that by repeatedly granting amnesty to illegal aliens we create the greatest encouragement to millions more people to likewise sneak into the country. Lets first debate this because every other issue is directly effected by this policy. Does America, via its government, have the right to decide how many people and from where are allowed in?
2
Deporting illegal immigrants is an assault on American values ???
3
This IS the beginning of Fascism.
4
So who will pick your fruit,work in slaughter houses, hang your dry wall, or clean your hotel room? Maybe it will be the kid that walked into my shop looking for work sporting an "I am heavily medicated for your protection" t-shirt.... good luck with that!
1
ICE officers and tocal enforcement agents now have complete PERSONAL discretion whether to deport someone. This is rife for mistakes and serious abuse and undercuts the respect for all law enforcement.
4
As David Frum points out, if Democrats tell voters that only fascists enforce immigration laws, the voters will hire a fascist to do the job. When will the Democrats stop with the open borders talk, which is clearly unpopular. How many elections will it take to get this right? We need nuanced legislative solutions, we get hulk smash. On this issue raging incompetence is no roadblock to implementing bad solutions. And thanks, Obama, for not dialing back the security excesses of the Bush administration. The brown shirt brigades will be that much easier to get up and running now that we have a fascist in the White House.
1
Yes, putting a general in charge of border control sends a stern and rather odd message.
And I agree with the Times that Trump's policy is an assault on American values.
Also in today's Times is this article, ''From Trump, the Nationalist, a Trail of Global Trademarks,'' https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/21/business/donald-trump-trademarks-chin... -- which lends credence to the notion that maybe Trump really just wanted to expand his business. Building his empire is definitely a part of his aim, but his main aim --as always -- is to parade his massive ego around the world.
These are dangerous times. I've watched "Trumbo" numerous times recently., and I was a very small child during the McCarthy era. A colleague of my father was forced out of an American university and had to flee to Canada.
It has been reported that Obama deported more illegal immigrants than any other president. He did so quietly, and effectively. Nobody believes we should let in criminals or potential criminals, but the basic American values are inscribed on the Statue of Liberty, which Trump is assaulting.
The repercussions from Trump's policies will be far-ranging. In today's Boston Globe is an article stating that Boston-area hospitals are being pressured to reject foreign students because of Trump's policy. And how exactly does this make America great?
And I agree with the Times that Trump's policy is an assault on American values.
Also in today's Times is this article, ''From Trump, the Nationalist, a Trail of Global Trademarks,'' https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/21/business/donald-trump-trademarks-chin... -- which lends credence to the notion that maybe Trump really just wanted to expand his business. Building his empire is definitely a part of his aim, but his main aim --as always -- is to parade his massive ego around the world.
These are dangerous times. I've watched "Trumbo" numerous times recently., and I was a very small child during the McCarthy era. A colleague of my father was forced out of an American university and had to flee to Canada.
It has been reported that Obama deported more illegal immigrants than any other president. He did so quietly, and effectively. Nobody believes we should let in criminals or potential criminals, but the basic American values are inscribed on the Statue of Liberty, which Trump is assaulting.
The repercussions from Trump's policies will be far-ranging. In today's Boston Globe is an article stating that Boston-area hospitals are being pressured to reject foreign students because of Trump's policy. And how exactly does this make America great?
3
I once lived in such a police state. It was so oppressive. First, to even come into the country I had to pass a grilling by border officials. If no paperwork from my employer, I could only stay as a visitor for a short while. Even with paperwork, to work there temporarily I had to pay $150 and prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the work I was doubt couldn't be done by a native. This judgment was rendered by a nefarious and unseen "board" and their opinion was final. During the temporary status I would get asked for my immigration paperwork all the time, by seemingly everybody. Talk about trampling my rights! But it got worse. After temporary status, to try and stay permanently was truly a draconian process. They made me take an English rest, create a 10-year history of all my travels, and then "scored" me on skills, education, means, contacts in country etc. It was almost as if this dystopia wanted to...gasp...hand pick the chosen few weeks that they would allow to live and work in their country. What police state is this, you ask? North Korea? Hungary? Soviet Russia? Nope. It's CANADA!
2
The editors conflate many topics in their missive this morning. In the process, they are making the Trump supporters dig in their heels and they are making moderate Americans scratch their heads over Orwellian newspeak.
Yes, there are many illegal immigrants in the country who came here in search of a better life. Over time, they and especially their children have likely become more American than many third or later generation people living here. A cursory glance at Kelly's memos does not seem to indicate that these folks are at any particular risk.
Yes, there are many transitory migrants who come here to work, send some money home and return to their countries when their objective is reached. Their labor has enabled the US to have great food at low prices for just one example. If this labor source is disrupted, prepare for $5 peaches, just like in Japan.
Yes, there are thousands of illegals who come into the US as members of gangs who do irreparable damage to the communities in which they reside.
Finally, there are the tens or hundreds of suspected terrorists who want to make 9/11 look like a dress rehearsal.
The editors would be wise to differentiate among the groups. Failure to do so only alienates Americans who do differentiate and, ironically, only strengthens the convictions of those who support Mr Trump.
Yes, there are many illegal immigrants in the country who came here in search of a better life. Over time, they and especially their children have likely become more American than many third or later generation people living here. A cursory glance at Kelly's memos does not seem to indicate that these folks are at any particular risk.
Yes, there are many transitory migrants who come here to work, send some money home and return to their countries when their objective is reached. Their labor has enabled the US to have great food at low prices for just one example. If this labor source is disrupted, prepare for $5 peaches, just like in Japan.
Yes, there are thousands of illegals who come into the US as members of gangs who do irreparable damage to the communities in which they reside.
Finally, there are the tens or hundreds of suspected terrorists who want to make 9/11 look like a dress rehearsal.
The editors would be wise to differentiate among the groups. Failure to do so only alienates Americans who do differentiate and, ironically, only strengthens the convictions of those who support Mr Trump.
The language used here - surge, force multiplier - reads like a battle plan to attack our own country.
3
If this administration was truly interested in stemming the flow of illegal immigrants ( which is at a near net zero ), they would implement a national E verify program. A national E verify program would put pressure on employers to verify who they are hiring and prosecute those employers who hire illegal immigrants.
Trumps current plan will allow employers to blackmail (e.g. threaten to notify ICE if the employee does not accept lower wages) immigrants.
Trumps current plan will allow employers to blackmail (e.g. threaten to notify ICE if the employee does not accept lower wages) immigrants.
1
Whose values are Donald Trump endangering? Certainly not the millions who cheered him on at his rallys, who were drawn to his anti-immigrant rhetoric, who voted him into office, and who continue to rally around him today? To those people, Donald Trump is the embodiment of their values.
Our ideals are in danger, for sure. But the values of a large percentage of the American people are quite accurately represented by President Trump. That is what America and the world has to come to terms with.
Our ideals are in danger, for sure. But the values of a large percentage of the American people are quite accurately represented by President Trump. That is what America and the world has to come to terms with.
1
The actions of immigration enforcers, highly successful force multipliers and state and local officers untrained in immigration law will produce not only gross injustice, but violence. What's next, internment camps? Will this madness bring us back to the 1920's world of Pietro di Donato's "Christ in Concrete?" Will Americans' attitudes toward anyone perceived to be not "from here" cause a breakdown in humanity? We must push back against actions that can so easily shape group think.
1
To paraphrase aGerman Lutheran minister:
First they came for the Jews. I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the communists, but I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, but I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics and I wasn't a Catholic, so I didn't speak up.
By the time that they came for me, there wasn't anybody left to speak up for me.
First they came for the Jews. I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the communists, but I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, but I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics and I wasn't a Catholic, so I didn't speak up.
By the time that they came for me, there wasn't anybody left to speak up for me.
2
The proposed mass hiring surge of ICE officers and Border Patrol Agents will only result in more abuse and corruption within the ranks of Customs & Border Protection (CBP). This occurred during the Bush administration when there was a similar mass hiring after the September 11 attacks.
Today on NPR's Morning Edition show, Steve Innskeep interviewed the former Internal Affairs Assistant Commissioner of CBP. He indicated that there was little oversight and to meet their hiring "goals" CBP's vetting of those applying for those positions was weak or non-existent resulting in the hiring of many persons with questionable pasts.
Congressional members need to review these reports and ensure that strict background investigations, including polygraph testing, are in place before one single applicant is hired under this DHS memo.
Today on NPR's Morning Edition show, Steve Innskeep interviewed the former Internal Affairs Assistant Commissioner of CBP. He indicated that there was little oversight and to meet their hiring "goals" CBP's vetting of those applying for those positions was weak or non-existent resulting in the hiring of many persons with questionable pasts.
Congressional members need to review these reports and ensure that strict background investigations, including polygraph testing, are in place before one single applicant is hired under this DHS memo.
2
I have a modest proposal.
The Supreme court appears split in the case of a boy shot by an American across the Mexico border: since the agent was on our side and the kid was on the other, the Mexicans can't sue, so end of story.
So all we have to do is to get ICE to round up all the illegals they can find, push them through a hole in the new wall and set up a shooting gallery. If you charge a fee for playing, you could even raise revenue, like eco-hunting in Africa and thus we "can" make the Mexicans pay. It could become the destination.
The Supreme court appears split in the case of a boy shot by an American across the Mexico border: since the agent was on our side and the kid was on the other, the Mexicans can't sue, so end of story.
So all we have to do is to get ICE to round up all the illegals they can find, push them through a hole in the new wall and set up a shooting gallery. If you charge a fee for playing, you could even raise revenue, like eco-hunting in Africa and thus we "can" make the Mexicans pay. It could become the destination.
2
So how far back does Trump want to go?
Muslims and Latinos are targeted now.
Are Asians next?
What about the Jews?
The Irish.
The Polish.
The Italians.
The Germans.
Trump's family hasn't been in America very long.
Trump is of German ancestry on his father's side and Scottish ancestry on his mother's side; all four of his grandparents were born in Europe.
We need proof that Trump is legal.
His daughter, Ivanka is half Czechoslovakian. We need her checked out too.
Everyone who isn't Native American Indian needs to go back from where they came from.
Right?
Muslims and Latinos are targeted now.
Are Asians next?
What about the Jews?
The Irish.
The Polish.
The Italians.
The Germans.
Trump's family hasn't been in America very long.
Trump is of German ancestry on his father's side and Scottish ancestry on his mother's side; all four of his grandparents were born in Europe.
We need proof that Trump is legal.
His daughter, Ivanka is half Czechoslovakian. We need her checked out too.
Everyone who isn't Native American Indian needs to go back from where they came from.
Right?
4
The deportations should be limited to counties that voted for Trump
2
The word COMPASSION seems to come up in almost everyone's comment. When Mrs. Clinton called many of the supporters of Trump "Deplorables" she was pointing out that these people, like Trump, lacked compassion.
No matter how down and out Americans have been, they always seemed to have compassion for those less fortunate. The social programs of the Depression, the Marshall Plan, the Peace Corps all show that America has long been a compassionate nation. That is what is different today. A group of mostly White, middle class, educated people, who fear for the loss of "their place" in society, have lost their compassion. People like them lived in Germany in the 1930s. We know what that lead to. The rise of so much hatred towards immigrants, Blacks, Jews and "others" is frightening. People: Find your Compassion!
No matter how down and out Americans have been, they always seemed to have compassion for those less fortunate. The social programs of the Depression, the Marshall Plan, the Peace Corps all show that America has long been a compassionate nation. That is what is different today. A group of mostly White, middle class, educated people, who fear for the loss of "their place" in society, have lost their compassion. People like them lived in Germany in the 1930s. We know what that lead to. The rise of so much hatred towards immigrants, Blacks, Jews and "others" is frightening. People: Find your Compassion!
2
The “American Slave Market Scene”— depicted in literature, movies and even the documentaries such as, “America: The Story of Us,” reveals the horror of families being torn a part, especially parents and children.
I am not trying to equate American slavery with the current immigration crisis.
However, in the moment of deportation, or while living under the threat of deportation, a profoundly traumatic event gathers steam and boils over with lifelong consequences. My children go to school with classmates living in unbearable fear of “the knock at the door” or the fear of returning home after school, only to discover that a parent or loved one has been deported. No one is making up these observations. It is real.
Why is the United States government willing to inflict such trauma and instability into the lives of families and communities? What are the long-term consequences? Do we realize how we are tearing down and destroying a significant part of the American fabric? The outcomes will not simply go away. As the saying goes, “You reap what you sow. You reap after you sow. You reap more than you sow.”
I am not trying to equate American slavery with the current immigration crisis.
However, in the moment of deportation, or while living under the threat of deportation, a profoundly traumatic event gathers steam and boils over with lifelong consequences. My children go to school with classmates living in unbearable fear of “the knock at the door” or the fear of returning home after school, only to discover that a parent or loved one has been deported. No one is making up these observations. It is real.
Why is the United States government willing to inflict such trauma and instability into the lives of families and communities? What are the long-term consequences? Do we realize how we are tearing down and destroying a significant part of the American fabric? The outcomes will not simply go away. As the saying goes, “You reap what you sow. You reap after you sow. You reap more than you sow.”
3
Only in the left wing bizarro world is law enforcement enforcing existing laws an issue.
If you don't like the laws elect lawmakers who will change the laws.
Meanwhile I applaud President Trump for vigorously enforcing federal laws that he is constitutionaly bound to enforce.
If you don't like the laws elect lawmakers who will change the laws.
Meanwhile I applaud President Trump for vigorously enforcing federal laws that he is constitutionaly bound to enforce.
2
Encouraging unlawful entry or visa overstays discourages and impunes those who enter the country by lawful means. All Hispanic immigrants are seen as suspect; lawful or unlawful. This is unfortunate. Lawful immigrants from Hispanic countries must wonder why they bothered to fill it forms, hire lawyers, wait on line if the government doesn't bother to enforce existing laws.
3
Are we not looking forward to reading all the Catholic Church literature from all the single-issue-pro-life voters who cast their vote for Trump SOLELY to get rid of Roe v. Wade and insert Gorsuch on the Supreme Court?
Are these true Christians NOT caught in the hypocritical bind of their sincere Christianity which has pushed the sanctuary movement for the last 30 years?
Are these true Christians NOT caught in the hypocritical bind of their sincere Christianity which has pushed the sanctuary movement for the last 30 years?
3
ICE is a dirty word. Mr. Kelly is the ICE pick for our unqualified president to assault democracy, American values, by planning the deportation of millions of immigrants illegally living in the U.S. When states and local officers - who don't know or understand immigration law - decide who stay and who goes, the concentration camps, called "processing and detention centers" begin to change America to a fascist country resemlbing those with concentration camps that befell our world under the Axis in WWII. Injustice and chaos will reign. Out 45th "unpresidented" President's raves and rants have been weaponized. John Kelly, Trump's enforcer, is the "homeland security secretary". He will be the Himmler of the battle plan for the "deportation force" dreamed up by Trump. The evil card house built with the gold Trump brand is the thin edge of fear-mongering and bigotry which hopefully will fall - and soon - along with the 45th President and his grotesque ICE force.
2
So deporting ILLEGAL ALIENS is somehow an "assault on American values". No, the fact that there is more money spent to aid ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS than to help Americans and Veterans is the REAL assault on American values.
So many turn their back on their neighbors and the people that have done their civil duty and want to spend and spend on anyone else. ....and by the way, Veterans DO NOT automatically get VA benefits. Actually only a percentage do. I actually read some idiot claim that Vets get this and that. No they dont.
So many turn their back on their neighbors and the people that have done their civil duty and want to spend and spend on anyone else. ....and by the way, Veterans DO NOT automatically get VA benefits. Actually only a percentage do. I actually read some idiot claim that Vets get this and that. No they dont.
2
Columns that advocate legal due process for illegals is exactly the sort of liberal doublespeak that condemns their utterances on this subject to the laugh track. Notice that no draconian new laws have been enacted; the news is that current law will finally be enforced. So the liberal position then is: ignoring current law and advocating others - including sworn peace officers - do the same is good policy, but acting in accordance with immigration law is somehow onerous and worse, some sort of "betrayal". There is no meandering nonsense they will not embrace so long as their househelp gets to stay.
2
It sounds like the new policies basically allow for the deportation of anyone in this country illegally. It also sounds like many commenters here would applaud that. If that is the case among NYT readers, I'm sure there is even more support for it among the rest of the country. And although I think it is overly simplistic, it's easy to understand an argument that says "they broke the law and we need to enforce the law".
But is it good public policy? Is it a good use of American resources?
Estimates vary, but a commonly used number is 11 million undocumented (or illegal if you prefer) immigrants in this country. A quick Google search shows estimated cost of a deportation to be about $10,000. Not too hard to believe when you consider the administrators, officers, lawyers, holding facilities, and transportation costs involved.
So the cost to the American taxpayer to deport them all would be about $100 billion dollars. Is that a good use of our tax dollars? Personally I would rather see a continuation of the old policy -- focus on those illegal immigrants who are truly "bad hombres", and spend the rest of the money on infrastructure, or education, or healthcare, or any other of a number of programs that America so desperately needs.
But is it good public policy? Is it a good use of American resources?
Estimates vary, but a commonly used number is 11 million undocumented (or illegal if you prefer) immigrants in this country. A quick Google search shows estimated cost of a deportation to be about $10,000. Not too hard to believe when you consider the administrators, officers, lawyers, holding facilities, and transportation costs involved.
So the cost to the American taxpayer to deport them all would be about $100 billion dollars. Is that a good use of our tax dollars? Personally I would rather see a continuation of the old policy -- focus on those illegal immigrants who are truly "bad hombres", and spend the rest of the money on infrastructure, or education, or healthcare, or any other of a number of programs that America so desperately needs.
2
United, we stand.
Divided, we fall.
Divided, we fall.
1
If our immigrants were all middle-class, English-speaking, white Christians fleeing oppression in Northern Europe, we would not be having this conversation. Anti-immigrant = racism. Period.
3
It's clear that in the minds of the insane left, of which the NYT is one of the mouthpieces, upholding the existing laws of the US is an "assault on American values" The left's complete disregard for the rule of law and it's insane approach to those who disagree with them will be it's undoing. It's a freak show playing out in from of REAL America daily. Keep it up, we're enjoying watching your permanent demise.
3
Well let's see. We've tried your "sensible" way, presumably Obama's, and are stuck with 11 million illegal aliens and no plan in sight for slowing the tide. States and localities that disagreed with this approach, notably Arizona, have been pilloried by your paper.
Now, largely due to the American public rightly viewing such lawlessness as a complete betrayal of "deeply held American values" we've elected a president to enforce our laws.
The funniest part of blather like your editorial, to me at least, is you would think from the rhetoric we were sending people to North Korea to be shot. We are not. We are returning people to their home, Mexico. Do you really think it is such a bad place that following the law is so bad? Perhaps you should consider the racism of that logic sometime.
Now, largely due to the American public rightly viewing such lawlessness as a complete betrayal of "deeply held American values" we've elected a president to enforce our laws.
The funniest part of blather like your editorial, to me at least, is you would think from the rhetoric we were sending people to North Korea to be shot. We are not. We are returning people to their home, Mexico. Do you really think it is such a bad place that following the law is so bad? Perhaps you should consider the racism of that logic sometime.
5
This is government-sanctioned terror against an entire group of people, many of whom have spent the majority of their lives in the US. Trump has made unjustifiable economic scapegoats of these people and threatens to tear families apart at the whim of an ICE officer. This violates every concept of Judeo-Christian morality and CANNOT stand.
General Kelly should be truly ashamed of himself.
General Kelly should be truly ashamed of himself.
4
Although, one can't deny Mr. Trump's concern on immigrants coming from the six banned Muslim countries, as we have seen in the past that few of the immigrants, who were granted asylum by Germany and France, were involved in attacking the civilian targets. However, as you are right in raising concerns on imposing a blanket ban on all immigrants. The Home security should vet all applications and grant asylum to only those who don't have any criminal record against them. After all, one should not forget that the United States itself is a country of immigrants.
The vast majority of posters seem to suggest that the US should not deport illegal immigrants. OK. So, why have immigration laws at all? That is a genuine question. What logic is there in saying, for example, that if you're caught in the country illegally shortly after arrival you get deported, but if you've been here for years you can stay? Imagine if tax evasion laws worked that way. "Well, you haven't paid your taxes in 20 years. Impressive! Well, if you managed to not get caught this long I guess we can wipe those back taxes off the books to congratulate you for your cunning!" Mental.
The worst is posters who talk about this like some sort of fascistic purge. "First they came for the illegal immigrants...." Really? How on Earth can you compare basic law enforcement with the brutal repression and unlawful imprisonment of intellectuals and ethnic minorities in repressive regimes of the recent past? How horribly disingenuous, and frankly insulting.
I have been a legal, tax-paying immigrant in the UK for over a decade. I've worked at half a dozen universities, and even worked for the MOD, with security clearance. If I were to overstay my visa guess what: I'd get deported! There would be no outcry, no 'but he was such an important member of the community!' for me. The government wouldn't allow me to stay and work illegally because I'd been here a long time. This is how immigration works in every organised nation on Earth. Why should the US be different?
The worst is posters who talk about this like some sort of fascistic purge. "First they came for the illegal immigrants...." Really? How on Earth can you compare basic law enforcement with the brutal repression and unlawful imprisonment of intellectuals and ethnic minorities in repressive regimes of the recent past? How horribly disingenuous, and frankly insulting.
I have been a legal, tax-paying immigrant in the UK for over a decade. I've worked at half a dozen universities, and even worked for the MOD, with security clearance. If I were to overstay my visa guess what: I'd get deported! There would be no outcry, no 'but he was such an important member of the community!' for me. The government wouldn't allow me to stay and work illegally because I'd been here a long time. This is how immigration works in every organised nation on Earth. Why should the US be different?
4
The most frightening image that comes to mind is of the people who will volunteer to be part of this new "force". If they are not adequately evaluated psychologically before being hired, I fear we will have a group of over-enthusiastic white men intent on the violent expulsion of others. Not to make an equivalency, but Mussolini's Black shirts became a loyal extra-government force committing violence against others. Their were loyal to a "cause" as this force will be, not to proscribed norms of police behavior.
If the police forces of this nation don't help to stop this, or at least force out of the administration a vetting protocol for new hires, there will be a renewed animosity and distrust between the police and the citizens. And surely violence will follow.
It was inspiring to see fellow citizens volunteer after 9/11; whoever heeds this call will inspire disgust.
If the police forces of this nation don't help to stop this, or at least force out of the administration a vetting protocol for new hires, there will be a renewed animosity and distrust between the police and the citizens. And surely violence will follow.
It was inspiring to see fellow citizens volunteer after 9/11; whoever heeds this call will inspire disgust.
2
The Spartacus approach needs to start right now.
Either "official" papers need to be made widely available or we all need to declare ourselves illegal immigrants.
We are Spartacus!!!
Either "official" papers need to be made widely available or we all need to declare ourselves illegal immigrants.
We are Spartacus!!!
3
Our only hope to end this nightmare is for Trump to be impeached for orchestrating with Russia the rigging of his election victory.
1
How to engage citizens into political discourse is the only major change as ICE wades into protesters and chaos. Lawyers, piled on top of lawyers, going to court with papers, writs and prior orders fighting city hall, State and Federal Judges with the energy of a billion thunderstorms. Street protestors willing to die for alien rights and human decency will grow into millions of people in every cornor, hamlet and city in America. Protesting will become a substantial, unprecedented National pastime as people skip lunch breaks and have contest for the most pithy slogan. Rock and Roll.
1
Deeply held american values? Really? After decades of war and meddling around the world that has killed 10's of thousands... after assassinations, coups, invasions, mass murders, and "collateral damage"... after all that has happened in just the last 20 years, someone dares write about American values and expects us not to laugh?
3
If American business owners wanted immigration reform, Congress would have passed immigration reform laws. A shadow, illegal workforce allows unscrupulous employers to skirt all labor laws, cheat workers out of their pay, and pocket even more profits for themselves. They think the system isn't broken. It works for them. While it may seem cruel to make these workers go back to their native countries, its equally cruel to turn a blind eye to the abuses that they endure. The deportations will force the issue of immigration reform. The businesses need the workers, and our society needs them to come out of the shadows.
1
A deplorable mentality, apparent even in some of the reader comments here, seems to manifest itself in America periodically. Bigots repeatedly try to build walls of hatred, and in good times they can be thwarted. But there is a persistent poison in the body politic, and though many antidotes have been offered, no cure has been found.
1
I am NOT a Trump supporter and disagree with much of the Trump policy on immigration. However I think the publication of statistical crime data is a good thing. The Editors disagree.
"He plans to publish data on crimes committed by unauthorized immigrants, and to identify state and local jurisdictions that release immigrants from custody. Why? To promote the false idea, as Mr. Trump has shamefully done, that immigrants pose particular safety risks..."
No, in this case more information is better. There can be only 1 of 2 outcomes.
1. It turns out to be true that illegal immigrants DO commit too many crimes.
2. It turns out that illegal immigrants DO NOT commit too many crimes.
If 1 is the case, then something needs to be done to reduce the crime rate and more deportations may be part of the solution.
If 2 is the case, then this undercuts Trump's justification for his policy, which places such a high priority on this issue. If 2 is the case, then we can fight back against him more effectively and argue that there is no justification for the huge amount of money his policy is going to cost.
Either way, we need the data. I'm surprised at the Editors for arguing against MORE data. Information is the life blood of journalism.
By the way, anybody who wants to read the memos (I highly recommend it) will find them here.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/02/21/us/politics/document-Trum...
"He plans to publish data on crimes committed by unauthorized immigrants, and to identify state and local jurisdictions that release immigrants from custody. Why? To promote the false idea, as Mr. Trump has shamefully done, that immigrants pose particular safety risks..."
No, in this case more information is better. There can be only 1 of 2 outcomes.
1. It turns out to be true that illegal immigrants DO commit too many crimes.
2. It turns out that illegal immigrants DO NOT commit too many crimes.
If 1 is the case, then something needs to be done to reduce the crime rate and more deportations may be part of the solution.
If 2 is the case, then this undercuts Trump's justification for his policy, which places such a high priority on this issue. If 2 is the case, then we can fight back against him more effectively and argue that there is no justification for the huge amount of money his policy is going to cost.
Either way, we need the data. I'm surprised at the Editors for arguing against MORE data. Information is the life blood of journalism.
By the way, anybody who wants to read the memos (I highly recommend it) will find them here.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/02/21/us/politics/document-Trum...
2
Editorial Board...you continue to distort the news.
"But immigrants have reason to be frightened by his sudden alignment with Mr. Trump’s nativism..."
You left out the most important word...illegal.
That's "ILLEGAL immigrants" have reason to be frightened.
Illegal...do you understand? I don't think you do because many others thinking wrongly like you are trying to turn ILLEGAL immigration into a human rights issue which it is not.
"But immigrants have reason to be frightened by his sudden alignment with Mr. Trump’s nativism..."
You left out the most important word...illegal.
That's "ILLEGAL immigrants" have reason to be frightened.
Illegal...do you understand? I don't think you do because many others thinking wrongly like you are trying to turn ILLEGAL immigration into a human rights issue which it is not.
4
The current focus on immigration in the US, and to a slightly lesser degree in the UK, is a bout of periodic nativism gone mad.
I believe you have a number of episodes of this in your past, but it is a paroxysm that will pass. The whole world seems to be teetering on the edge of madness, let us hope that this time we can avoid the worst excesses of conflict that have followed previous populist governments
I believe you have a number of episodes of this in your past, but it is a paroxysm that will pass. The whole world seems to be teetering on the edge of madness, let us hope that this time we can avoid the worst excesses of conflict that have followed previous populist governments
5
Now the question is will Congress pay for the billions that this will cost. Let's see if the California growers, many Republican backers, will go along with California GOP House members supporting the creation of a force to deport their workers. What about Georgia Republicans, the same state that saw fruits and vegetables withering on the vine during the last crackdown? Paul Ryan already said Congress will not pay for a deportation force. Well, the ball is in their court. Will the GOP in Congress stand up to Trump?
2
When will some people, even journalists, realize, that legal means respect for the law, illegal means no respect for the law.
Some people might not like that part of the migrant population has no legal status.
In a democracy, the way is by changing the law, not by disrespecting the law.
Some people might not like that part of the migrant population has no legal status.
In a democracy, the way is by changing the law, not by disrespecting the law.
1
This entire piece is based upon a false narrative.
The process outlined is based upon current law, and is no different than the process followed by the previous administration. There are about 900,000 people still here with final deportation orders.
The NYT just keeps digging a deeper hole with its anti Trump enthusiasm.
The process outlined is based upon current law, and is no different than the process followed by the previous administration. There are about 900,000 people still here with final deportation orders.
The NYT just keeps digging a deeper hole with its anti Trump enthusiasm.
1
Any chance if deporting Trump. As an Alien? As in Alien being.
2
The American Gestapo. Whoever would have thought?
My old age is increasing by leaps and bounds every day since January 20th.
My old age is increasing by leaps and bounds every day since January 20th.
2
I suppose the ultimate effect of all this is that the U.S. will become such an unpleasant place to live in and even visit that no one---even born-and-bred US citizens like me who choose to live abroad---would ever want to live there. It would only be familiar to those who live in police states. Thanks for nothing, President Trump.
1
Where's your contempt for the Congress that passed the law that the President is enforcing?
2
The thought of Trump/Kelly brown shirts going door to door looking for 'illegals' is very upsetting and shows that trump is not fit to be president. In his effort to show his 'christian' followers how holy he is, he obviously forgot all the values that his 'christ' taught.
2
Sheriff Joe Arpaio may have lost his last battle, but apparently he won the war..
2
Dear President Trump:
My paternal grandparents and five other relatives were on board the S.S. St. Louis on May 27, 1939 which was refused permission to discharge its passengers at the port of Havana, Cuba; who were then returned to various locations in Europe, where many of them -- including three of my relatives -- were captured by Hitler’s forces and eventually murdered in concentration camps.
My father, as loyal, devoted, hard-working, productive and patriotic an American as it is possible to imagine, never forgave President Roosevelt for refusing to help them.
I pray that you will not make a similar mistake.
Respectfully yours,
A. Stanton
CC: Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner
https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005267
My paternal grandparents and five other relatives were on board the S.S. St. Louis on May 27, 1939 which was refused permission to discharge its passengers at the port of Havana, Cuba; who were then returned to various locations in Europe, where many of them -- including three of my relatives -- were captured by Hitler’s forces and eventually murdered in concentration camps.
My father, as loyal, devoted, hard-working, productive and patriotic an American as it is possible to imagine, never forgave President Roosevelt for refusing to help them.
I pray that you will not make a similar mistake.
Respectfully yours,
A. Stanton
CC: Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner
https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005267
4
Have to agree completely with tRump on one thing: Sad!
Are economists involved in these decisions? How will this affect the labor market?
1
If FDR was the head of the "Greatest Generation" that led us out of the Great Depression, gave us the "New Deal", the strongest economy on earth, and defeated fascism then Trump is clearly the head of the "Worst Generation" that is giving us hate, ignorance, greed, and hypocrisy as the core values of who we are.
When a nation built on immigration, where nearly every person is an immigrant or descended from immigrants, to turn its back on the immigrants of today is not just economically stupid but morally bankrupt.
When a nation built on immigration, where nearly every person is an immigrant or descended from immigrants, to turn its back on the immigrants of today is not just economically stupid but morally bankrupt.
3
Ah, now we know what Trump was referring to when he talked about creating jobs! Just the other day, I watched a NYT video where a Trump supporter bemoaned that a nearby prison had been shuttered, causing a loss of jobs in the area. Now we can begin expanding "detention" centers, hire more ICE and police officers. Then, when he fully implements his "law and order" agenda, we can build more prisons to hold the citizens who transgress. Lock 'em up and Make America Great Again!
3
If he's looking for people who broke laws getting here, he need look no further than his wife.
2
Maybe that surge in law enforcement would be better used curbing down on drunk driving, and helping stem the spiraling opioid crisis. That would go a long ways towards improving public safety.
Unfortunately, it will go towards what law enforcement does best: harassing minorities without just cause.
Unfortunately, it will go towards what law enforcement does best: harassing minorities without just cause.
3
Donald Trump wants to hire 5000 new border patrol agents and 10000 new DHS agents to remove immigrants and secure the border, but was is going to happen to those 15k positions when most immigrants are removed and the border is secure? Who or what are they going to target next, or will the agencies cut their workforce once the "job" is done? (Also, what is going to happen to any property owned by illegal immigrants, will it go to their immediate family or will the government try to claim it was obtained with illegal sources of income?)
A change in law would have the same effect with much less effort, manpower, and money. This is a short sighted policy.
A change in law would have the same effect with much less effort, manpower, and money. This is a short sighted policy.
2
We are a nation built on religious freedom and immigration, how have we arrived at the point of assembling a deportation force. It sends chills down my spine thinking of this happening in America. History shows us where this can take us and it is a dark terrifying place.
2
I am still waiting for Melania Trump's phantom press conference, in which she addresses all lingering questions about her own immigrant status - given that many foreign-born models were working in the US illegally at one point or another, and we still do not know her actual immigrant status. Perhaps ICE should pay a visit to Trump Tower demanding all of her documents, and be prepared to "fast track" her right back to Slovenia. I suppose we'll find out that information at the same time we see Don the Con's tax returns. This nation has been taken over by bigoted white supremacists, who are trashing our very foundations and basic human values. "Make America Great Again?" More like make America stupider, more ignorant, more venal, more bigoted, and less patriotic than ever. 2/22, 9:12 AM
2
There has always been a disconnect between being an American and being a Christian. We Americans have a standard of living far exceeding most in the world. We don't want to loose this way of life. We will do what we can to preserve it. I believe Jesus would preach against this. He would probably want us to freely bring in immigrants and share.
Pretty much makes us all hypocrites. Including me.
Pretty much makes us all hypocrites. Including me.
1
You mean President Trump when you say Mr. Trump I assume. That's pretty funny how you play that, after all the money you are making spinning the news.
To the readers: The news is filler in-between the ads; the sensationalized stories are created to increase readership. It's the news "business." And, yes, make no mistake about it, it is a business. This paper doesn't care either way, they just want to make as much money as they can. If they can craft another story with "legs" they'll move on to that. You are being deceived.
To the readers: The news is filler in-between the ads; the sensationalized stories are created to increase readership. It's the news "business." And, yes, make no mistake about it, it is a business. This paper doesn't care either way, they just want to make as much money as they can. If they can craft another story with "legs" they'll move on to that. You are being deceived.
1
I don't suppose the NYT Editorial Board has considered that it has lost touch with what the rest of America considers to be "American Values." THE NYT EB didn't see Trump winning the election, and evidently still fails to understand. American Values includes respect for the rule of law, and many millions of Americans are sick and tired of illegal immigration being accepted and even encouraged. So when Trump campaigns on getting tough on illegal immigration at every stop, and when he wins, and does what he said he would do after winning, and the NYT EB says it is an assault on American Values...you have to wonder: "Does the NYT EB understand what "American Values" are? or "Does the NYT EB care about "American Values" or do they simply care about "Elitist Northeastern Progressive Values?"
3
America's values include following the laws of the land until those laws are changed by Congress. It really is that simple.
An assault on Leftist values is not an assault on American values. Precisely, often, to the contrary.
"The Obama administration recognized that millions of unauthorized immigrants, especially those with citizen children and strong ties to their communities and this country, deserved a chance to stay and get right with the law."
And how did these illegal interlopers--not "unauthorised immigrants"--come to "deserve" to escape the consequences of their crimes and, incidentally, cheat others of their home nations who obey US laws about coming here?
"The targets now don’t even have to be criminals."
Entering the country illegally is a criminal act--ALL illegal immigrants are, by definition, criminals.
"The Obama administration recognized that millions of unauthorized immigrants, especially those with citizen children and strong ties to their communities and this country, deserved a chance to stay and get right with the law."
And how did these illegal interlopers--not "unauthorised immigrants"--come to "deserve" to escape the consequences of their crimes and, incidentally, cheat others of their home nations who obey US laws about coming here?
"The targets now don’t even have to be criminals."
Entering the country illegally is a criminal act--ALL illegal immigrants are, by definition, criminals.
3
Wouldn't it make more sense to build the wall first considering illegals are coming across in swarms according to our fearful leader
2
The only part of this that is amazing is that it took thirty years for someone to finally decide to enforce the law. This should have been done a long time ago. For those of you who bleed for the illegals remember they came illegally knowing in advance what would happen if they were caught. They came anyway. So now they get what they already were aware of.
There is no whine like the whine of a lefty liberal's bleeding heart while spending someone elses money.
This is what Trump was elected to do and I guess unlike Democratic pols he intends to keep his promises
There is no whine like the whine of a lefty liberal's bleeding heart while spending someone elses money.
This is what Trump was elected to do and I guess unlike Democratic pols he intends to keep his promises
2
Necessary immigration reform was blocked in Congress. Americans that care about our country's deepest values, including that of "welcoming the stranger" from all races and all parts of the world, may soon reach the point that widespread non-cooperation with the present cruel regime will be the only response.
2
Illegal immigration is a substantial cost at all levels of government. From schools, healthcare, law enforcement, etc. Reagen struck a deal over 30 years ago to make people legal and to end more border crossings and more illegal immigration in return. And what did we end up with - an additional 8 million illegal aliens since then. Mexico has done nothing to stop this. Our own government has done nothing we people fly into our country and over stay visas and never leave. My father came to this country legal in 1974 and had to wait for 3 years to finally get in. He has never been on welfare and became successful, and has contributed immensely throughout his life in paying taxes. I am know doing the same thing. Is this not the fair way? Does this not serve America and its people to bring in the best and the brightest? What are progressives gaining by supporting illegal immigrants, sanctuary cities, and open borders? Nothing but supporting their own perceived self righteousness and moral superiority. The country is not with you on this issue and your pure hatred for anything Republican is blinding you to see how far out of control our immigration policy has become.
1
Under federal law all persons who are here illegally are subject to deportation. Trump's new policy aims at enforcing this law ban partially. Assuming that American values are reflected in law, how can this policy be contrary to American values?
Policy analysts say the sudden surge in CBP's hiring of border patrol officers with insufficient vetting and rapid training led to a surge in corruption and excessive use of force. DHS Secretary Kelly has acknowledged his concern about maintaining standards in the rush to hire yet another 15,000 CBP and ICE officers.
On the question of due process raised in this NYT editorial, I wonder if an American citizen stopped on the street by an ICE officer is required to prove his citizenship. In that situation, is the burden of proof on the American citizen or the government agent? Unlike people in other police states, Americans are not required to carry identification documents at all times.
There are different standards of "reasonable suspicion" and "probable cause" for a law enforcement officer to stop and frisk a person or arrest him. If ICE in the midst of a dragnet should stop and detain an American citizen, is that an illegal arrest? Worse yet, what happens when ICE mistakenly deports an American citizen? I return to the question of burden of proof, because I can see some interesting court challenges if ICE does not tread carefully.
To what extent is an American citizen (who has committed no crime) required to prove his nationality to an overreaching ICE officer, and to what extent does the burden of proof fall on the government? In court, what nondiscriminatory criteria could ICE reasonably assert for detaining a person and demanding proof of his citizenship?
On the question of due process raised in this NYT editorial, I wonder if an American citizen stopped on the street by an ICE officer is required to prove his citizenship. In that situation, is the burden of proof on the American citizen or the government agent? Unlike people in other police states, Americans are not required to carry identification documents at all times.
There are different standards of "reasonable suspicion" and "probable cause" for a law enforcement officer to stop and frisk a person or arrest him. If ICE in the midst of a dragnet should stop and detain an American citizen, is that an illegal arrest? Worse yet, what happens when ICE mistakenly deports an American citizen? I return to the question of burden of proof, because I can see some interesting court challenges if ICE does not tread carefully.
To what extent is an American citizen (who has committed no crime) required to prove his nationality to an overreaching ICE officer, and to what extent does the burden of proof fall on the government? In court, what nondiscriminatory criteria could ICE reasonably assert for detaining a person and demanding proof of his citizenship?
2
The editorial board asks for a “proportionate application” of immigration laws, but doesn’t define proportionate application. In 2016, ICE deported 65,332 of the estimated 11 million unauthorized immigrants unlawfully residing in the United States. This works out to a crime clearance rate of 0.6 percent. By comparison, U.S. law enforcement annually clears about 47.2 percent of violent crimes and 18.3 percent of property crimes. The proportionality of illegal immigration is that about 99.4 percent of illegal immigrants who elude the Border Patrol or overstay their visas get away with illegal immigration.
1
so the NY Times is opposed to the enforcement of immigration laws (on the books before Trump even came to office) and considers their implementation an "assault on American values"? Does the NY Times support the impact of that illegal immigration on those at the lowest wage scales in the US (i.e., the ones most economically impacted by this type of immigration)?
2
I find it interesting that the primary "American Value" that the NYT editorial doesn't mention is the rule of law.
Enforcing border security and immigration laws that have been overlooked since Ronald Reagan granted amnesty to law breakers is a refreshing return to enforcing our immigration laws and regulations.
Obama and Democrats directly and indirectly invited illegal immigration. In California and other states, illegals are granted drivers licenses and, as I understand it, are routinely registered to vote. This is a huge violation of "American Values" that coastal journalists, immigration lawyers and judges ignore.
Illegal immigration has corrupted America. It has caused people with "compassion" and "empathy" for illegals to discard their compassion and empathy for their fellow Americans whose lives are being ruined and cheapened by illegals who take their health care, educations and jobs.
Outside of sanctuary cities that pander to their huge legal and illegal immgrant populations, it is believed and understood that until we are taking care of our own, we are in no position to spend billions supporting and policing illegal immigrants who come from cultures where there is little respect for the rule of law or American Values.
Enforcing border security and immigration laws that have been overlooked since Ronald Reagan granted amnesty to law breakers is a refreshing return to enforcing our immigration laws and regulations.
Obama and Democrats directly and indirectly invited illegal immigration. In California and other states, illegals are granted drivers licenses and, as I understand it, are routinely registered to vote. This is a huge violation of "American Values" that coastal journalists, immigration lawyers and judges ignore.
Illegal immigration has corrupted America. It has caused people with "compassion" and "empathy" for illegals to discard their compassion and empathy for their fellow Americans whose lives are being ruined and cheapened by illegals who take their health care, educations and jobs.
Outside of sanctuary cities that pander to their huge legal and illegal immgrant populations, it is believed and understood that until we are taking care of our own, we are in no position to spend billions supporting and policing illegal immigrants who come from cultures where there is little respect for the rule of law or American Values.
31
The bottom line is the current administrations stance on immigration is a red herring. If it's current plans are successfully implemented, America will be forced to pay 5 to 10 times the current prices for food. No immigrants equals no produce, no fruit, no vegetables, no beef, no pork, no poultry. No milk, no cheese, no dairy. When your children are crying because they are hungry, then maybe you will realize that electing a not very successful bombastic reality show pitchman was a very bad idea.
3
The "sensible" thing would have been to require eVerify and to punish the employers of illegal immigrants. But somehow that got in the way of profits. It would also be "sensible" to educate Americans for STEM jobs instead of importing people from around the world to bring down STEM wages. Here is for a sensible immigration policy indeed.
3
I was working in D.C. in the 1980s when the last immigration law was enacted. Ronald Reagan was president. It gave amnesty to immigrants who were here before 1982 I bélieve.
What has changed that has made our nation so mean-spirited today? Is it the lack of jobs for poorly educated Americans? Maybe so.
What has changed that has made our nation so mean-spirited today? Is it the lack of jobs for poorly educated Americans? Maybe so.
2
The last time I checked, the "rule of law" --not by men or editorial boards-- is an American value.
4
Newsflash: coming through Ellis Island legally in the 1920s is an American value; sneaking into the country illegally is not. Waiting your turn in line is an American value; jumping line is not. The rule of law is an American value; ignoring those who refuse to apply for a visa or overstay their visit is not...
9
The end result of these policies is a police state. Immigrants contribute to our economy and do hard and dirty work for low wages. So what are we going to do with that force multiplier after we deport millions, have them pick fruit and clean our houses?
3
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Martin Niemoller
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Martin Niemoller
2
I never thought I would live in a police state - but here we are.
3
What is completely legal by the letter of the law can be unethical, immoral, horrifying and contrary to the human spirit.
This mass deportation policy is a case in point, and anathema to American values.
This mass deportation policy is a case in point, and anathema to American values.
3
People who are in this country illegally and have convicted of felony crimes, at the state or federal level, should have been put on a plane immediately. None of this prison term first nonsense.
4
No, Mr Trump's "Deportation Force" is preparing an assault on New York Times' values, certainly not American values. America is a nation that traditionally has run on laws. Breaking laws has never been an American value. If you are here legally, you have nothing to be concerned about. If you are a rapist, murderer, drug dealer here specifically to harm or injure American citizens, well, be afraid. Be very afraid. Trump won this election from sea to shining sea, from the Canadian border to the mouth of the Mississippi for a reason. Hillary lost to Barack Obama, a political lightweight of no merit, and again to a non politician eight years later. So why are you bellyaching? Prepare for some great headlines, and a very, very rough eight, hopefully sixteen years in the desert.
3
Shame is the daily feast dished out by this government of cruel, hard, rich men who have no regard for common humanity.
It is hard to call myself American today without wanting to cry out in horror.
It is hard to call myself American today without wanting to cry out in horror.
4
Trump cannot consider himself a natives. His grandfather came here from what is now Germany barely 100 years ago. He arrived, became wealthy building brothels, and returned to Germany a rich man, only to be deported for failure to perform his military service. So he returned to the US, wreaking his vengeance upon the world via Baby Donald, nearly a century later.
1
Talking about the USA being a nation of laws, what we need is the equivalent of ICE agents working in Wall Street and the financial,services industry.
1
If Trump's plans wee a well-thought-out solution to a notable problem, that's one thing. But, as we know from his Muslim ban, this is neither well thought out nor a valid reaction to a real and pressing problem--just like the Mexican Wall. When we could repair all of the dangerous and aged dams in this country for 21 billion OR build a wall with Mexico that doesn't address a valid problem for the same (or more) amount of money--just to follow through on 1/2 of a campaign promise (Build a Wall-for free was actually the campaign promise)--we have inept Exec and Congressional governance.
Obama's deportation policies were stepped up but done in a fashion that was not deliberately cruel. But then, his policies don't have flashing lights spelling out Trump's name...
Obama's deportation policies were stepped up but done in a fashion that was not deliberately cruel. But then, his policies don't have flashing lights spelling out Trump's name...
2
I teach English as a Second Language to immigrants in a small town in Maryland. It is a very successful program of the local Community College. One of thousands across the country. We do not ask or require students to inform us of their status. We offer six levels, and some have been with us for years. Many, if not most, live in mixed households, documented and not. They are terrified. Their friends and family might not return from work, or school, or the grocery store. What if one of the parents is taken while a child is in school?
How would even I prove my citizenship while out and about on my daily errands or work? I don't travel around town with a birth certificate or passport. Do you? If this enforcement is to be fair and honest and not prejudiced, then anyone, not just Latinos or foreigners, is subject to being held up. All of us could be caught in this disgusting dragnet.
I teach with a woman who was originally from Germany. She is horrified and stunned by this turn of events. We are on a very slippery slope.
How would even I prove my citizenship while out and about on my daily errands or work? I don't travel around town with a birth certificate or passport. Do you? If this enforcement is to be fair and honest and not prejudiced, then anyone, not just Latinos or foreigners, is subject to being held up. All of us could be caught in this disgusting dragnet.
I teach with a woman who was originally from Germany. She is horrified and stunned by this turn of events. We are on a very slippery slope.
3
How will they distinguish legal citizens who are not white from illegal aliens? They way they're approaching is a big brush.
Who would legal citizens complain if they get into rough ride with ICE and our government?
Current DOJ - under Chief Racists is not a place to go for sure.
I agree that illegals are illegals. Law needs to be respected, but there there needs to be thoughtful approach. We won't even know that how many good qualified immigrants we will not dare to come here because of this, it's our loss. I also want to see raids in mid-west on farms.
Just check this out: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/immigration-we-simply-cannot-afford-heath...
Who would legal citizens complain if they get into rough ride with ICE and our government?
Current DOJ - under Chief Racists is not a place to go for sure.
I agree that illegals are illegals. Law needs to be respected, but there there needs to be thoughtful approach. We won't even know that how many good qualified immigrants we will not dare to come here because of this, it's our loss. I also want to see raids in mid-west on farms.
Just check this out: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/immigration-we-simply-cannot-afford-heath...
Am I missing something? These people have come here illegally; let me repeat, illegally. Why should they receive special treatment when millions of others have followed the policies and waited their turn to gain legal access to the country. If I don't have proper paperwork I cannot leave and re-enter the country, or any country for that matter.
The monetary cost of this plan is what concerns me more than humanitarian aspect. There has to be a middle ground between mass deportation and total amnesty for upwards of 11 million people, who have, albeit illegally, come in search of a better life in America. Hire more processing agents at the INS. Do something to streamline the application process. Comprehensive overhaul has been promised for decades and never delivered on. It is truly unfortunate that people's lives are hanging in the balance, but they made a choice to break the law to begin their American dream.
The monetary cost of this plan is what concerns me more than humanitarian aspect. There has to be a middle ground between mass deportation and total amnesty for upwards of 11 million people, who have, albeit illegally, come in search of a better life in America. Hire more processing agents at the INS. Do something to streamline the application process. Comprehensive overhaul has been promised for decades and never delivered on. It is truly unfortunate that people's lives are hanging in the balance, but they made a choice to break the law to begin their American dream.
5
I haven't heard much about cracking down on those who employ illegals. If there were real consequences, such hiring would stop and illegal immigration would stop.
6
If we are a nation of laws, and not men (and women), then the laws as passed need to be enforced to the best of our ability. If these laws had been enforced appropriately in the past, we would not be in the situation we are in today.
It's silly that the President is coming under fire for upholding his duty to enforce existing laws. It's not his fault that his predecessors decided to ignore the problem (or worse). Further, he campaigned on this issue and was elected - to some degree, he now has an obligation to fulfil his campaign promise. What seems to have many exercised is, that unlike most politicians, he generally has meant what he has said and it taking action.
It's silly that the President is coming under fire for upholding his duty to enforce existing laws. It's not his fault that his predecessors decided to ignore the problem (or worse). Further, he campaigned on this issue and was elected - to some degree, he now has an obligation to fulfil his campaign promise. What seems to have many exercised is, that unlike most politicians, he generally has meant what he has said and it taking action.
5
Dear Mr. Kelly,
In case you have forgotten your Irish ancestry, here are some excerpts from a Library of Congress lesson I found online:
"... when the Irish families moved into neighborhoods, other families often moved out fearing the real or imagined dangers of disease, fire hazards, unsanitary conditions and the social problems of violence, alcoholism and crime."
"Many Irish women became servants or domestic workers..."
"... competition heightened class tensions and, at the turn of the century, Irish Americans were often antagonized by organizations such as the American Protective Association (APA) and the Ku Klux Klan"
Here is the full lesson: https://www.loc.gov/teachers/classroommaterials/presentationsandactiviti...
Sincerely,
GM
In case you have forgotten your Irish ancestry, here are some excerpts from a Library of Congress lesson I found online:
"... when the Irish families moved into neighborhoods, other families often moved out fearing the real or imagined dangers of disease, fire hazards, unsanitary conditions and the social problems of violence, alcoholism and crime."
"Many Irish women became servants or domestic workers..."
"... competition heightened class tensions and, at the turn of the century, Irish Americans were often antagonized by organizations such as the American Protective Association (APA) and the Ku Klux Klan"
Here is the full lesson: https://www.loc.gov/teachers/classroommaterials/presentationsandactiviti...
Sincerely,
GM
2
Wasted energy...so many avenues to improve the lives of America and Trump picks this as his number one priority --- a priority that will not make us safer, will not create jobs, and in fact, will do the opposite---create radicals, and create unemployment.
4
Get a grip! President Trump is merely enforcing the laws as they already exist. Maybe some psychological intervention would help you?
2
I get a kick out of the goobs who are complaining about losing their health insurance claiming they didn't think he meant it.
If you want to know what a fascist leader will do all you have to do is listen to what he says.
That said,once the storm troopers start knocking down doors the lawsuits will start to fly.
If you want to know what a fascist leader will do all you have to do is listen to what he says.
That said,once the storm troopers start knocking down doors the lawsuits will start to fly.
4
How is ignoring the law an assault on American values? The headline is an assault on common sense.
My guess is that if a vagrants pitched tents or cardboard boxes in the back yards of the editorial board members homes, the editors would be pretty quick to dial 911 and evict them posthaste no matter how peacefully the squatters conducted themselves.
Equating illegal aliens with lawful immigrants is disrespectful to the millions who have made great personal and financial sacrifice to immigrate here lawfully. Shame on the NYT editorial board for devaluing their sacrifice.
My guess is that if a vagrants pitched tents or cardboard boxes in the back yards of the editorial board members homes, the editors would be pretty quick to dial 911 and evict them posthaste no matter how peacefully the squatters conducted themselves.
Equating illegal aliens with lawful immigrants is disrespectful to the millions who have made great personal and financial sacrifice to immigrate here lawfully. Shame on the NYT editorial board for devaluing their sacrifice.
6
Depending on when you start the clock, the U.S. is a nation of around 300 million immigrants, almost all of whom arrived with no prior approval. This isn't about immigrants, it is about keeping the country for those who got here first, with the exception of the indigenous people, of course.
2
How is deporting illegal immigrants an assault on American values? We are not deporting legal immigrants. Do people realize that a large portion of our jails are filled with illegal criminals, may of them violent. Most of the heroin killing 10s of thousands per year are coming through Mexico carried by illegal immigrants and 100s of killings happen each year by illegal immigrants. The left will show one example of a mother who is being deported and the entire left base is up in arms. Even though this women committed felonies. Most of the illegals, if they haven't committed a felony, will not be deported. We need to get them in the system so we know who they are and where they live. The people who hire the illegals should also be arrested. I read a very well informed article from 2013 that showed that 2 million illegals are voting. I wonder what party they are voting for. I honestly think the left knows this and why they are so upset about cutting down of this population. lets increase legal immigration of people who can fill high tech jobs not people who can work minimum waged jobs.
4
These extremely draconian, inhumane policies threaten to pit state and local authorities at odds with federal law enforcement, potentially creating lethal flashpoints where people could be hurt or slain. They militarize the fiction that immigrants, in general, pose greater threats of violent crimes against Americans than people born here. In fact, the opposite is true. Perhaps we should deport our native-born if we intend to make the country safer.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
www.endthemadnessnow.org
6
When you have a clueless Grifter and Liar whose values are synonymous with hate, this is the result. What about Melania? Will she be subjected to these harsh tactics? Until proof is given, she is an undocumented and OUT she must go.
5
What are American values? Modern immigration law has always allowed the removal of foreign nationals on grounds that they entered the US surreptitiously or overstayed their visas, regardless of whether they have had contact with the criminal justice system, and regardless of whether they have US families or jobs. The immigration law which allows the most draconian of the announced initiatives, expedited removal, referred to here as "fast tracking," was enacted as part of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996, signed by Clinton. It is one of many. many harsh changes wrought by that Act.
5
Immigrants, legal or not are not the number one threat to our way of life.
It's conservative policy that will rip off the middle class with tax cuts for the wealthy and strip you of your health insurance, especially if you are poor.
When the potholes in your neighborhood go unrepaired because the tax cuts for the upper class broke the budget and you can't afford the cancer treatments for your kid, go find and punish Donald Trump and his henchmen, not some poor immigrant who can barely scrape by.
Kind of like you.
It's conservative policy that will rip off the middle class with tax cuts for the wealthy and strip you of your health insurance, especially if you are poor.
When the potholes in your neighborhood go unrepaired because the tax cuts for the upper class broke the budget and you can't afford the cancer treatments for your kid, go find and punish Donald Trump and his henchmen, not some poor immigrant who can barely scrape by.
Kind of like you.
1
Need to point out that other countries have some very specific requirements for legal immigration.
1.) Do you have a skill that is in demand?
2.) What is your educational level?
3.) Can you support your self?
Illegal immigrants to some countries are dealt with in a less humane manner.
The notion of open borders would most definitely benefit businesses, but at the expense of the citizens in America that have already paid into the system.
1.) Do you have a skill that is in demand?
2.) What is your educational level?
3.) Can you support your self?
Illegal immigrants to some countries are dealt with in a less humane manner.
The notion of open borders would most definitely benefit businesses, but at the expense of the citizens in America that have already paid into the system.
5
the program to create jobs and raise wages is now revealed. deport millions thereby creating all of these newly available positions.
and since most people have already rejected these same positions the only way to fill them will be higher wages.
so the cost of living goes up. inflation rises. so do interest rates. and poverty. the effective income gap increases.
bread lines? looting by those who can't afford basic items of life?
beware what you wish for.
and since most people have already rejected these same positions the only way to fill them will be higher wages.
so the cost of living goes up. inflation rises. so do interest rates. and poverty. the effective income gap increases.
bread lines? looting by those who can't afford basic items of life?
beware what you wish for.
"... they seek to make deportation machinery more extreme and frightening (and expensive) to the detriment of deeply held American values."
Trump voters threw those "deeply held American values" to the four winds when they elected an ignorant, bigoted, sexist xenophobe to the Oval Office. They also can forget any hopes of renewing our crumbling infrastructure when deporting millions and building a useless wall will be taking up the lion's share of their tax dollars with the rest going to "fiscal relief" for the 1%. Hope they're happy.
Trump voters threw those "deeply held American values" to the four winds when they elected an ignorant, bigoted, sexist xenophobe to the Oval Office. They also can forget any hopes of renewing our crumbling infrastructure when deporting millions and building a useless wall will be taking up the lion's share of their tax dollars with the rest going to "fiscal relief" for the 1%. Hope they're happy.
3
The fatuity of the inclusion of the words 'American values' makes me both laugh and groan. Everything revolves around profit and UTILITARIAN values in American society. The Chinese were welcomed in California for cheap and malleable labour on the railways. Newly conquered prairies were the object of land grants for Scandinavian immigrants prepared to till the soil and simply form a bulwark of white occupation of former Native American territories. Etc. Americans have to face incontrovertible historical facts, altruism and high-flown political idealism were never significant forces for tolerating foreign intrusion. I find Trump and his racist ideology detestable, but he is definitely showing America's true colours.
3
What is my legal recourse if an Immigration officer decides that I need to be deported back to Croatia without a hearing? Where do I explain that I was born in Bangor Maine? That my parents were also born there? That their parent were born there? That my greatgrandparents were born there? That my greatgreatgrandparents were born there? Need to check my family tree, I think I might be running out of native born ancestry.
1
A shout-out,to my friends,South of the border.For,the time being:the longest undefended border,in the world,I say,"for the time being" because,who knows,with that Buffoon--in the White House--Who knows?There is a wonderful cartoon in today's Toronto Star.It depicts the Statue of Liberty.A large X placed across:"Give me your tired.Your poor.Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free-----."She is holding a sign,where the torch should be.It is an arrow pointing to Canada---380 miles.That about says it all! Of course Toronto has become one of the largest culturally diversified cities in the entire world.So sad what America,under that pathological,narcissistic,megalomaniac man-child has sunk to.
1
The barbarism is about to begin. The only real immediate solutions are in the courts, civil disobedience, protest, and state and local Resistance.
It is just possible that this malicious caving to the base nativists can be slowed down by Democrats in the Senate when the requests for more enforcement money & personnel show up on the hill. But don't count on it.
This is your wake up call America. Large scale atrocities are about to be committed in your name. Time to engage.
It is just possible that this malicious caving to the base nativists can be slowed down by Democrats in the Senate when the requests for more enforcement money & personnel show up on the hill. But don't count on it.
This is your wake up call America. Large scale atrocities are about to be committed in your name. Time to engage.
4
I hope these procedures include Melania Trump, for she entered the US illegally, got her first job without working permits, and now lives off the taxpayer's money. Boy, it'd be a treat to see her being dragged away from her "anchor baby" and helpless husband, the three of them kicking and screaming, when ICE agents come to send her back to "wherever the hell she came from" (Mr. Trump's words). I know it's a shameful spectacle from a horrible policy, but THE LAW IS THE LAW! Justice for all!
1
The reason laws against undocumented workers were lax was that so many US businesses depend on workers from Mexico and Central America to grow and pick crops, serve as waiters, haul garbage, work underpaid in factories. Most people come because US trade policies drove Mexican farmers into a hole with corn prices and they have no jobs, or else they are escaping violence from drug gangs that arose to deliver to the huge US market. This sweeping up of almost any undocumented person, even if they are working and paying taxes, on any excuse from the police or ICE, is a simpleton's solution - it will devastate millions who were our friends and co-workers. Don't imagine it will improve relations south of the border either.
2
Is it the right time to demand to see Mr. Trump's birth certificate? How long do you think we could keep up the pretense of not believing he is a "real" American? Or does that work only if you are a Republican trying to smear a POC--a president of color?
2
When I think of the needless trauma that this "change in policy" will inflict upon families that will be torn apart and the glee that some not insignificant portion of the US population will take from their pain, I can very honestly say that in my 53 years, I have never been more ashamed to be a US citizen.
1
A fine editorial. I disagree because the Times is advocating for the federal government to ignore the laws of the United States, but that's OK.
I'm just concerned--like A LOT of Americans--that the liberal editorial agenda of the Times and the mainstream media infects every article that involves any traditional left-right political issue (with the left viewpoint getting the sympathetic news coverage and the right-leaning viewpoint largely being subject to enhanced criticism). I guess I'd put it this way: does the Times have a liberal bias and does the Times even view objectivity as a desirable trait?
I'm just concerned--like A LOT of Americans--that the liberal editorial agenda of the Times and the mainstream media infects every article that involves any traditional left-right political issue (with the left viewpoint getting the sympathetic news coverage and the right-leaning viewpoint largely being subject to enhanced criticism). I guess I'd put it this way: does the Times have a liberal bias and does the Times even view objectivity as a desirable trait?
3
The most chilling part to me of this instance of Trumpian "promise keeping" is the HUGE amount of leeway given to ICE agents and Border Patrol officers. It really does turn them into some echo of the Secret State Police of Nazi Germany--otherwise known as the Gestapo. Deported when only charged, not convicted? Deported if an agent or officer just thinks you might do something deportable? How can this stand?
Also, it's been reported by both Breitbart AND The NY Times (imagine that!) that as more Border Patrol agents come aboard corruption goes up, in large part because Internal Affairs can't keep up with strong vetting of applicants. https://mobile.nytimes.com/2008/05/27/us/27border.html And now Trump plans on almost doubling the force...
The Trumpeteers in the Central San Joaquin Valley are already worried that their support of Trump could backfire on them and take down agriculture in California, ultimately raising prices for us all.
What a disaster is in the offing.
Also, it's been reported by both Breitbart AND The NY Times (imagine that!) that as more Border Patrol agents come aboard corruption goes up, in large part because Internal Affairs can't keep up with strong vetting of applicants. https://mobile.nytimes.com/2008/05/27/us/27border.html And now Trump plans on almost doubling the force...
The Trumpeteers in the Central San Joaquin Valley are already worried that their support of Trump could backfire on them and take down agriculture in California, ultimately raising prices for us all.
What a disaster is in the offing.
3
for Hitler the headline bogeyman were the Jews. for Trump the Muslims
I do not recognize this country anymore.
they say born by the sword die by the sword. is the fate of our country, having been born by the sword,?
I do not recognize this country anymore.
they say born by the sword die by the sword. is the fate of our country, having been born by the sword,?
2
The rape of American values continues. Trump and the Republican Congress, complicit in its silence, tell us we should just relax and enjoy it. I suppose, in their minds, we were just asking for it anyway because we twice elected a black man - with the decency and mettle for the job - as President.
3
It has become obvious that DT is not the president of the United States –Steve Bannon is. Love him or hate him, Trump does not have the intellectual capacity to formulate any policies or programs. No, Mr. and Mrs. American you elected a Breitbart “alt-right” provocateur and now you, as well as the rest of us, will have to pay the piper. Imagine in your wildest dreams being part of “Hispanics for Trump” so that your grandmother could be deported. God help us all!!
2
Dear Immigrants -
There are many safe and conformable places to hide and many people ready to defy this inhumane order perpetrated by the unpatriotic people who happen to inhabit our government. These individuals have forgotten their ancestors's struggles when they came to America, legally or otherwise.
Stay strong,
GM
There are many safe and conformable places to hide and many people ready to defy this inhumane order perpetrated by the unpatriotic people who happen to inhabit our government. These individuals have forgotten their ancestors's struggles when they came to America, legally or otherwise.
Stay strong,
GM
4
Among the truly mind-blowing effects of this: parents torn from children, economic collapse (for who is going to do all those jobs that many of these undocumented workers do) and the whole-sale sell out of American values, on which most of our lives are based (for how many of our grandparents arrived here with a nod and a welcome at Ellis Island?) another is censorship. Any person who is not an American citizen who is now in this country--and this includes laborers, scientists, writers, doctors, artists, public service workers, artists, teachers, parents--are now going to be afraid to speak out against these injustices for fear of--literally--trumped up charges and deportation.
This is what the beginnings of a dictatorship look like.
This is what the beginnings of a dictatorship look like.
3
As horrifying as this is, right now it's just more bluster by Mr Trump to pander to his base supporters. There is no funding currently in place to carry out what has been proposed and ICE certainly does not have the man power to carry this out on a national scale. Detention centers would need to be built and it will take a substantial amount of time to hire and train 10,000 additional ICE personnel. Fortunately at this time Congress still control the nations purse strings. As far as deputizing local police forces; I kind of doubt most cities and towns will allow their police forces to be deputized to carry out this round-up of illegals. And finally, does anyone find it rather troubling how quiet the House and Senate have been on any of Mr. Trumps hot button issues (Immigration, repealing ACA)? Is there still a Congress out there that is creating any kind of legislation since Trump took office?
1
Only in the demented minds of the NYT's opinion writers can enforcing federal law be considered an assault on American values.
2
The attack is on our country's border by illegal aliens who are criminals, if we do not have secure borders we do not have a country
2
You fail to make mention of, or account for, the economic cost of the resources utilized by illegal immigrants (health, education, public safety) but you hyperventilate about the economic cost of securing the borders and enforcing our immigration laws. Have someone do the math.
2
I always wondered where the police would come from in a police state. Now I know. It would be the gun-toting angry white jobless male who blames immigrants for taking his job away (while not blaming the CEO of his company). The white male is being trained by Fox News to dehumanize immigrants, refugees, and anyone of a different color, ethnicity, religion, or culture other than his own.
Our police state will have no trouble signing up recruits.
God help us all.
Our police state will have no trouble signing up recruits.
God help us all.
2
I wonder if Trump's plans wil include penalties for Americans who hide illegal immigrants, or help them escape to Canada, like the laws in Germany prohibited anyone from helping a Jew escape. I live very close to Canada and have already talked with friends about helping people get across the border. To think that the US might have Guantanamo-like prison camps full of men, women & children awaiting hearings, sometimes for years, makes me sick. I don't care what the law says, and I don't care if they're legal or not. They are human beings, and I intend to resist as much as I can.
3
Assault on what values? Did you conveniently forget that we are a nation of laws and that lawbreakers need to be punished?
Sounds like you have no idea what the laws is and have forgotten all that promises of 1985 when we were promised enforcement in exchange for amnesty. Well now is the time for us to collect on that amnesty promises.
Sorry you have such memory that you think the American people won't notice the fact that you do not believe we should enforce our immigration laws, that promises made to the people should not be kept.
None of this speaks very well to you sense of being law-abiding and keeping promises. Do you think we are a bunch of stooges who can be lied to by the Press and the government all the time?
This editorial is a slap in the faces of US citizens who believe laws are made to be enforced, and when they are broken you face punishment.
Sounds like you have no idea what the laws is and have forgotten all that promises of 1985 when we were promised enforcement in exchange for amnesty. Well now is the time for us to collect on that amnesty promises.
Sorry you have such memory that you think the American people won't notice the fact that you do not believe we should enforce our immigration laws, that promises made to the people should not be kept.
None of this speaks very well to you sense of being law-abiding and keeping promises. Do you think we are a bunch of stooges who can be lied to by the Press and the government all the time?
This editorial is a slap in the faces of US citizens who believe laws are made to be enforced, and when they are broken you face punishment.
3
Why don't we investigate how many illegal immigrants Donald Trump has either married or employed ILLEGALLY to build the Trump Ivory towers he so gloatingly espouses.
99
"Unauthorized immigrants." So innocuous sounding. They are already here, so that makes them "immigrants," even if they violated US laws to enter or remain. The NYT wants to retain the status quo, that is, Obama's immigration policies,
and everything thing else. But Trump won largely on his get-tough immigration policy. Why is there surprise? Polls show that a significant majority of Americans agree with the President. As with the election, the opinions of this paper are at odds with significant parts of the country. This is not about immigration, but a desire to portray the President as antithetical to "American values," and therefore illegitimate. If you do not agree with this paper, you are not "sensible", do not welcome "immigrants," or are disrespectful of the "facts". So mu
uch for the vaunted "tolerance" of the left.
and everything thing else. But Trump won largely on his get-tough immigration policy. Why is there surprise? Polls show that a significant majority of Americans agree with the President. As with the election, the opinions of this paper are at odds with significant parts of the country. This is not about immigration, but a desire to portray the President as antithetical to "American values," and therefore illegitimate. If you do not agree with this paper, you are not "sensible", do not welcome "immigrants," or are disrespectful of the "facts". So mu
uch for the vaunted "tolerance" of the left.
3
This is the danger of putting a general in charge of domestic law enforcement. We confuse due process with a military campaign.
2
The very target of the assault was not the immigrants but the American values.
The immigrants was just a convenient vehicle to attack American values pretending it was in defense of law.
The immigrants was just a convenient vehicle to attack American values pretending it was in defense of law.
4
I guess there are a lot of questions I have about what open borders means that I don't understand and are never specified. I know a lot of Americans have them, also. No disrespect intended. But, why should there be a difference in illegal immigrants and legal immigrants? Why should legal immigrants have to wait years to become citizens if they can just cross the borders. What's the purpose then? They could come in and leave whenever they want? If all the borders are open, then what? Schools, government benefits money for everything, how do we figure that out? Registration? Taxes, how do figure that out? If they are coming daily for jobs, but then return that night to be with their families how do we handle that? If they commit a crime that day, can they cross the border that night? How do we figure out wages? Does it mean immigrants from around the world, not just Mexico? How do we count our population? The biggest problem, and many others have, is what exactly open borders means and will mean. There has to better, more specific explanations and there really hasn't been. It's just "open". Maybe with those explanations and people have a better understanding, a lot of the arguments for/against will diminish.
2
assault on American values?! are you kidding me? since when is coming in this country illegally and draining our limited resources considered an "American value"? liberals are out of their minds and this writer leads the pack. good job, President Trump!!
3
The blame for this lies at the feet of the Republican congress not with the enforcers of the congress-made law. The Republicans have made this bed of vipers on which we are about to lie and they must deal with it before the enforcement spreads the blame and guilt for inhumane policies to the entire society.
2
I can go along with deporting violent CONVICTED undocumented aliens. But this is really ridiculous.
Born as a stateless person in Austria, I was adopted at the age of 2, & received dispensation to enter the US in 1949 (birth mother was a refugee who fled from Lithuania when the Russians invaded...her husband had joined the German Army & was killed fighting the Russians). My adopted father was reassigned to Austria in 1952 & I had to stay in the US for 5 years to become a citizen.
When I was 6, I, along with other kids in the neighborhood, put pennies on the railroad tracks for the freight trains to flatten. It apparently is a crime. I am now 70. Should I be deported? If so, to where?
I have always been patriotic and proud to be an American, valued my citizenship & voted in every election since I was 18. But now the lust for power of this president is going to destroy our country. Not only on a humanitarian level that will tear families apart, but economically as well. Aside from the expense of apprehension & detention (by means that are too reminiscent of the Brown Shirts in German, the economic value in the communities where these people reside will affect everyone. Our world is indeed turning upside-down.
So let's put the people who wrecked our economy in powerful positions, Shame on those who were so easily deluded by cheap rhetoric (America was already great), but also shame on the GOP who is aiding and abetting.
Born as a stateless person in Austria, I was adopted at the age of 2, & received dispensation to enter the US in 1949 (birth mother was a refugee who fled from Lithuania when the Russians invaded...her husband had joined the German Army & was killed fighting the Russians). My adopted father was reassigned to Austria in 1952 & I had to stay in the US for 5 years to become a citizen.
When I was 6, I, along with other kids in the neighborhood, put pennies on the railroad tracks for the freight trains to flatten. It apparently is a crime. I am now 70. Should I be deported? If so, to where?
I have always been patriotic and proud to be an American, valued my citizenship & voted in every election since I was 18. But now the lust for power of this president is going to destroy our country. Not only on a humanitarian level that will tear families apart, but economically as well. Aside from the expense of apprehension & detention (by means that are too reminiscent of the Brown Shirts in German, the economic value in the communities where these people reside will affect everyone. Our world is indeed turning upside-down.
So let's put the people who wrecked our economy in powerful positions, Shame on those who were so easily deluded by cheap rhetoric (America was already great), but also shame on the GOP who is aiding and abetting.
3
this is scary. And shameful, This administration has no compassion or vision. For all we know we may be deporting the one person that finds a cure for cancer or invents an affordable renewal energy source, or has a great idea for education, or healthcare -- So many opportunities will be wasted in this futile operation to make sure the elites are protected from "crime" ! And yet, even as they deport immigrants( illegal or not) we will overturn Obamacare, which helps many people stay healthy. I am having so much trouble understanding this thinking (sic)
2
This is wonderful news. Finally an important issue in American life is being settled. Can the law be broken with impunity or will America continue to exist as a nation with its own language and culture.
5
Most illegal immigrants are here because they could find work and hope for a better life here. They were facilitated by employers who wanted to pay the lowest possible wages for working under conditions most Americans would reject.
Look at the businesses and individuals who hired them. There is the real problem.
Look at the businesses and individuals who hired them. There is the real problem.
4
What about someone walking down the street in a neighborhood where most people speak only Portuguese? When stopped by an ICE agent, what proof do I have that I am not an enemy alien? What papers do I have to show when asked to 'show me your papers'?
1
Steve Bannon claims he is influenced by Julius Evola an Italian fascist antisemite philosopher of the 1930s as well as by Charles Maurras ,the French fascist monarchist also antisemite.
And Trump chose Bannon as his adviser.
Americans know nothing about philosophy but it is not just a detail .There is a founding for the iedology of the Trump's administraition. And each single tiem I have tried to write that the NY Times did not publish it which means that the NY Times does not want the publuc to know.
And Trump chose Bannon as his adviser.
Americans know nothing about philosophy but it is not just a detail .There is a founding for the iedology of the Trump's administraition. And each single tiem I have tried to write that the NY Times did not publish it which means that the NY Times does not want the publuc to know.
2
Our only hope is to get this madman and his regime out of office. There should be a daily update - on the front page - of the status of the investigation into the administrations ties to Russia during the campaign.
3
A slippery slope of abuse by what sounds like a police state, ready to zap any undocumented immigrant out of 'existence'...by deporting him/her ipso facto, with no humane recourse, however integrated in society and contributing to the economy. This is cruelty 'gratis', worth studying, as it comes from a paranoid ADHD narcissist who thinks this new outrage will keep him in the spotlight. Shame on him, and on those complicit in degrading our human stature, as no one on this Earth can be illegal. Is this really a country build by immigrants gone loony? How low can we stoop, following the Diktat of a vulgar bully, loaded with sadism, seeking relevance in all the wrong places? And guess whose taxes are going to make this outrage possible? Yours!
2
And now we see the enormous downside of having "generals" making and implementing public policy on our home soil. It seems Secretary Kelly only has one gear.
1
"American values" have gone through cycles from Lady Liberty welcoming the "huddled masses yearning to breathe free" to shutting the "golden door" on specific immigrant populations going back to the "Chinese Exclusion Act" of 1882 passed overwhelming in Congress and signed by Republican President Chester Arthur in 1882. Thirty years later anti-immigrant fervor once was aroused to in new episode of nativism against European immigrants culminating in the "red scare" raids and mass deportations by Attorney General Mitchell Palmer in 1919-20. A few decades later the Franklin Roosevelt Administration forcibly interned all Japanese-Americans in World War II. Now we have the latest xenophobic outbreak, this time focused on immigrants from Mexico and Central America. The virus of fear of the other--the outsider--has once again been used by politicians to gain power by playing to the basest of human tribalism that is frightened of the new global world we live in. We are entering very dark times and can only hope the fever will break before it does irreparable damage to our democracy whose motto is "e pluribus unum"--out of many one. We cannot and must not let us close the golden door and hide behind a wall of fear in a gated-community that is Trump's medieval vision of America.
2
Why is it so hard for this paper to fathom that these people broke the law. They cheated the system and they living here illegally. Why is it you chose to selectively ignore certain laws just because you don't like them. We have borders and laws for a reason. Turning a blind eye to these people just encourages more illegal (yes illegal) immigration. How is this fair to the immigrants who followed all the rules and came here legally that we let these people skip the line? Calling Obama's policy of turning a blind eye to criminals no matter how upstanding they are after they committed their crime sensible is laughable. That's like saying we should let a bank robber walk free because after he robbed the bank he was a model citizen. This is just another mindless editorial by an increasingly clueless and irrelevant editorial board.
2
The Republican Fascist Party has started it march. Once it was Albanians, Poles, Scots, Irish, Tutsi and Hutu, Greeks, Turks, Libyans, Syrians and now... Mexicans and what's marching out with them is compassion and history not learned. Looking back in a few decades this will be our ethnic cleansing. And with it no right to lecture anyone, anywhere, ever again.
2
i am a Vietnam Veteran. Returning home, I remember one of the first questions that I was asked was if I had killed anyone.Landing in Cam Ranh Bay around midnight in September 1971, the first thing I became aware of was the disruption. The sights and sounds of tracers, flares, gunfire and explosions were overwhelming to an 18 year old. My next awakening was that the Vietnamese were human beings just like me. The reflection in the eyes of the Vietnamese children and elders was my own. I fell in love with the people and their culture, different from my own but adding to mine. I left the "country" in 1972 as the war was standing down. Families were scattered, children walking the roads all but lost amid the horror that war brings.
I have lived in the Italian Market area of South Philadelphia for 10 years. What has made this area so rich (to me) has been the melding of languages, religions and cultures. Italian,Jewish, Asian, African and Mexican Americans living next door.
The humanity of Mexican Americans is being questioned by Donald Trump and those who voted for him. Shame on you if this looks like what you voted for. We are a nation of laws but when I heard Donald Trump running his "law and order" con, and his followers swooning, I knew disruption was on the way. Some of my neighbors are no longer making eye contact and I am sad.
This is not an America that I recognize.
Time to stand up, not down.
I have lived in the Italian Market area of South Philadelphia for 10 years. What has made this area so rich (to me) has been the melding of languages, religions and cultures. Italian,Jewish, Asian, African and Mexican Americans living next door.
The humanity of Mexican Americans is being questioned by Donald Trump and those who voted for him. Shame on you if this looks like what you voted for. We are a nation of laws but when I heard Donald Trump running his "law and order" con, and his followers swooning, I knew disruption was on the way. Some of my neighbors are no longer making eye contact and I am sad.
This is not an America that I recognize.
Time to stand up, not down.
3
There are going to be inevitable conflicts between officers trying to enforce these new policies and the people they are trying to apprehend. Former officials of the Homeland Security service have mentioned that previous efforts to hire massive new numbers of border guards have found that many of these new hires are not suitable for the work, have criminal backgrounds themselves, and are not happy with the harsh environment where they must work.
2
As a naturalized U.S. citizen with a Spanish name, do I now have to carry my "papers" to prove my citizenship every time I leave my home? Do I now have to carry my passport as identification in my own country? This does not feel like the nation I love and became a part of many years ago - I feel like an alien in an alien and unfriendly land.
90
OK, fine. Let's put our money where our mouth is.
We will start today by raiding the fields and orchards of California. Get a lot of trucks and clear the place out. Let the food rot.
Don't go from community to community, go from employer to employer and shut the business down by rounding up everyone undocumented. Stop building projects in their tracks. Delay production. Disrupt schedules.
Pull workers out of construction sites, out of day worker sites, off of roofs, out of factories, out of restaurants. Shut the business down, today,
A few weeks in, maybe we will have a better idea of the costs and the benefits we get from the pool of workers we are deporting. I bet it is a whole lot more complex than the narrative from our right wing suggests.
We will start today by raiding the fields and orchards of California. Get a lot of trucks and clear the place out. Let the food rot.
Don't go from community to community, go from employer to employer and shut the business down by rounding up everyone undocumented. Stop building projects in their tracks. Delay production. Disrupt schedules.
Pull workers out of construction sites, out of day worker sites, off of roofs, out of factories, out of restaurants. Shut the business down, today,
A few weeks in, maybe we will have a better idea of the costs and the benefits we get from the pool of workers we are deporting. I bet it is a whole lot more complex than the narrative from our right wing suggests.
106
Unfortunately, all this was predicted:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/07/us/politics/trump-immigration-ban-hea...
By ruling on whatever got them a giant hug and not ruling on strict constitutional law, the 9th circuit essentially hardened the resolve of the administration to speed-up deportations, not slow them down. An administration, don't forget, with firm mandate of their electrorate to clean-up immigration. In other words, an administration with little political price to pay, only cheering attaboy rewards to get. An administration only too happy to say "phooey 9th circuit, who cares what crazy Californians thinks about immigration, duh".
So yes, thanks to the 9th circuit's careless ruling, the administration's ends now justifies their means. If not by order, then memoranda. By the way, nice trick, thanks Barack! See http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2014/12/16/obama-presidentia...
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/07/us/politics/trump-immigration-ban-hea...
By ruling on whatever got them a giant hug and not ruling on strict constitutional law, the 9th circuit essentially hardened the resolve of the administration to speed-up deportations, not slow them down. An administration, don't forget, with firm mandate of their electrorate to clean-up immigration. In other words, an administration with little political price to pay, only cheering attaboy rewards to get. An administration only too happy to say "phooey 9th circuit, who cares what crazy Californians thinks about immigration, duh".
So yes, thanks to the 9th circuit's careless ruling, the administration's ends now justifies their means. If not by order, then memoranda. By the way, nice trick, thanks Barack! See http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2014/12/16/obama-presidentia...
7
The New York Times version of American Values is a criminal alien raping a 3-year-old child in Arizona and others committing heinous crimes around the country, especially in the West. This is why liberalism is dying away.
Actual American Values are the law actually being enforced regardless of political correctness or heartbroken snowflakes.
Don't like being deported? Don't sneak in here.
Pretend we are Mexico for an explanation because Mexico will jail you just for sneaking in there.
Actual American Values are the law actually being enforced regardless of political correctness or heartbroken snowflakes.
Don't like being deported? Don't sneak in here.
Pretend we are Mexico for an explanation because Mexico will jail you just for sneaking in there.
1
“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.”
-Emma Lazarus
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.”
-Emma Lazarus
3
I'm sure nothing will go wrong with rapidly hiring ICE agents and deputizing local cops in a political climate where non-white citizens are considered suspect. I'm sure nothing will go wrong with having a retired general in charge of civilian forces that already behave as if they're military occupiers and have a reputation for shooting first and dodging charges later. (Kudos to the NYT on calling him "Mr." -- he's a civilian public servant.)
And I'm sure that ICE will be as assiduous about dealing with the 50,000 or so Irish visa overstayers in Woodlawn and thereabouts as it is with southern border cities.
And I'm sure that ICE will be as assiduous about dealing with the 50,000 or so Irish visa overstayers in Woodlawn and thereabouts as it is with southern border cities.
1
The Country needs radical Immigration Reform.
Perhaps the majority of the readers of the NY Times
and all of the Editorial Board do not feel the competition
for jobs/housing/seats in Public Schools that other Americans
feel from the effects of Un-Documented Immigrants.
I am in favour of allowing those Immigrants - whatever their status
an amnesty.
But then Stricter Boarder Patrols.
A sound and safe Temporary Worker Program.
Federal Funding for all mandated social programs that benefit Immigrants.
Required payment of at least Minimum Wages for all workers
and safe working environments.
Congress and previous Presidents have had decades to straighten
out the whole Immigration Crisis but Big Business likes to be able
to hire desperate Immigrants to do their dirty and dangerous work
while ignoring the collapse of the Middle and Lower Economic Classes.
Elite Liberals are you listening.
The Canary in the Mine of Economic Equality died a long time ago.
Trump is just the tip of the Iceberg of Social Unrest.
Perhaps the majority of the readers of the NY Times
and all of the Editorial Board do not feel the competition
for jobs/housing/seats in Public Schools that other Americans
feel from the effects of Un-Documented Immigrants.
I am in favour of allowing those Immigrants - whatever their status
an amnesty.
But then Stricter Boarder Patrols.
A sound and safe Temporary Worker Program.
Federal Funding for all mandated social programs that benefit Immigrants.
Required payment of at least Minimum Wages for all workers
and safe working environments.
Congress and previous Presidents have had decades to straighten
out the whole Immigration Crisis but Big Business likes to be able
to hire desperate Immigrants to do their dirty and dangerous work
while ignoring the collapse of the Middle and Lower Economic Classes.
Elite Liberals are you listening.
The Canary in the Mine of Economic Equality died a long time ago.
Trump is just the tip of the Iceberg of Social Unrest.
1
The nytimes is on the wrong side of history on this one. I am all for legal immigration but someone who is not here legally shouldn't expect to be allowed to stay.
So a quick question. Lets say I took a tent and placed it on Harvard's campus. Lets say I was there for 10 years. After 10 years, would Harvard say, Oh, your welcome to become a student? For all those other people that applied to go, that were rejected, what kind of message would it send?
How is our immigration laws any different?
So a quick question. Lets say I took a tent and placed it on Harvard's campus. Lets say I was there for 10 years. After 10 years, would Harvard say, Oh, your welcome to become a student? For all those other people that applied to go, that were rejected, what kind of message would it send?
How is our immigration laws any different?
1
You mean values like following the law?
People in any country, without permission, do not deserve to be in that country. They gave that up by slapping the country in the face as their first action.
People in any country, without permission, do not deserve to be in that country. They gave that up by slapping the country in the face as their first action.
2
I read the Kelly memos too, and as much as I would like to agree with this editorial I cannot. All the hysteria in the NYT piece evades the basic distinction between illegal and legal. How would the nyt define " not too illegal" ? Which it is where this argument is heading. How would that stand up to a federal ,court test. Proportionality is a less compelling argument that basic rule of law. Much as I disagree with much of Trumpism it is very hard to knock down this approach in its totality. Would like to hear critics propose a sustainable plan rather then just dump on this one. Nation of laws is an American value.
1
It will be interesting to hear what the Pope has to say about this new deportation strategy. If negative comments ensue, what will Trump tweet to the leader of the billion plus Catholic Church.
1
Military officers are not suitable as heads of civilian administration in democratic society. Their training and battle ground experience conflict with human approach required in solving problems in civic society. That is the reason they are required to wait seven years before they serve in such capacity.
Why is the government not going after businesses and people who hire these illegal immigrants? Are not they breaking the law?
Why is the government not going after businesses and people who hire these illegal immigrants? Are not they breaking the law?
1
Whenever, we start putting Generals into domestic positions of power, the country loses credibility. We now have a self-serving sociopath in charge of the United States government with former military commanders who do not understand what a Democracy should be.
All that comes to my mind is the early days of Hitler and the strange power he had over certain people who believed everything he said and could not distinguish facts from falsehoods.
All that comes to my mind is the early days of Hitler and the strange power he had over certain people who believed everything he said and could not distinguish facts from falsehoods.
1
Has it occurred to anyone that this kind of action can generate sufficient hatred from relatives of those deported that they become the very terrorists that is troubling the trump supporters.
1
quote from Martin Niemoller (Germany ~1937)
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
1
Unless you are personally willing to house, feed, clothe, and educate illegal immigrants, I'm tired of your crocodile tears. It's easy to get all preachy when you're spending other people's money and don't directly face the social and economic problems caused by unfettered immigration. If you want to understand why Trump won unexpectedly in some traditionally Democratic states, put yourself in the shoes of working class American citizens who bear the brunt of feel-good politics.
4
Trump and ICE are carrying out laws that were never intended to be enforced 5, 10, 15, or 20 years after a misdemeanor offense of crossing the border occurred. Wouldn't it make sense to have a statute of limitation on this offense rather than ripping a mother from her home, one who has lived in the US for 21 years, has a citizen spouse and citizen children and deporting her to Mexico? The gratuitous cruelty and brutality of these grotesque raids on people standing outside a church, kids walking to school, or adults being hard at work is beyond appalling. I'm cheering for the court system and all the courageous lawyers who can act before it's too late. Unfortunately, Trump is trying to shut that down with immediate deportations. What country is this?
2
He is doing what his core base elected him to do.
We have to admit here that a large chunk of that base does not believe in the 'American values ' so emotionally espoused in the editorial and the comments.
To ignore this and to blame everything on this man is convenient,but ultimately shortsighted
We have to admit here that a large chunk of that base does not believe in the 'American values ' so emotionally espoused in the editorial and the comments.
To ignore this and to blame everything on this man is convenient,but ultimately shortsighted
2
So fiscal control is no longer a consideration with the President who also has taxpayers paying exorbitant amounts to cover his family's security, his golf trips, and his children's business trips. And what do we hear from Congress about budget restraints - we'll undo insurance with a scam replacement, undo medicare, undo medicaid, defund shows like PBS (Sesame Street's such a threat), defund legal services for the poor, defund Endowment of the Arts, etc. And oh yeah, we need more money to fight in Syria!
Let's see how high the national debt climbs. And all of this is happening, while simultaneously many representatives fail to represent their constituents by holding Town Hall Meetings during their break. Nope if it's not a feel good session then let's forget about no taxation without representation.
Time for a progressive 'Tea Party', one that cares about people, one that cares about the constitution, one that cares about American values.
Let's see how high the national debt climbs. And all of this is happening, while simultaneously many representatives fail to represent their constituents by holding Town Hall Meetings during their break. Nope if it's not a feel good session then let's forget about no taxation without representation.
Time for a progressive 'Tea Party', one that cares about people, one that cares about the constitution, one that cares about American values.
1
Sadly a reluctant and somewhat useless Republican House has fought any sensible way of approaching 'legality' for these mostly hardworking, smart and assertive folks for years. Republicans wonder why conservative Demos like myself consider them racist,though the Republican may be black, Spanish speaking, or Caucasian of a different origin - the tendancy to negate others's human worth based on race or origin is at best shameful. Disgusting would be a better word, but I choose not to use it.
2
The concerning word is Biggity not Bigly. It has been made the tone of the land. Biggity has been inaugurated and ordered by executives. Any one who wishes to mistreat the less fortunate has an excuse to act. This is not an America the Beautiful; Land of Opportunity or Home of the Brave. That America will have to rediscover its heart and reclaim its place in the world.
2
Illegal aliens are criminals just for the simple fact they came into this country illegally so for that reason only they should be deported. This article makes it sound like these are law abiding citizens. That's why the law calls them illegal aliens. Why is that so hard for liberals to understand?
3
"Mr. Kelly included a catchall provision allowing Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers or Border Patrol agents — or local police officers or sheriff’s deputies — to take in anyone they think could be 'a risk to public safety or national security.'"
So, am I to assume that it's possible that they could come after citizens of this country who have, say, protested, or posted messages disparaging this administration? ICE agents won't necessarily do that, but "local police officers or sheriff’s deputies" just might.
So, am I to assume that it's possible that they could come after citizens of this country who have, say, protested, or posted messages disparaging this administration? ICE agents won't necessarily do that, but "local police officers or sheriff’s deputies" just might.
Does the coal worker in Kentucky who hasn't had a job for a long time really think that the fellow who mows somebody's lawn in Connecticut or picks grapes in California is the cause of his misfortune? Well, if he can think 45 will solve all his problems then he might believe anything.
This roundup isn't about sensible enforcement of our immigration laws. For reasons cited in other comments, it will be an economic disaster for the country and a social disaster for the many immigrant families torn apart. It's about playing to the ignorant, racist base that elected our fuhrer. Now that's really sad.
This roundup isn't about sensible enforcement of our immigration laws. For reasons cited in other comments, it will be an economic disaster for the country and a social disaster for the many immigrant families torn apart. It's about playing to the ignorant, racist base that elected our fuhrer. Now that's really sad.
1
When your president decides to round up all the people and businesses EMPLOYING undocumented workers, I'll assume he wants to fix a problem. Until then, this is simply xenophobic garbage playing to the basest of his base.
3
Two out of three of Trump's wives are immigrants. Just goes to show that we need immigrants because there are some things Americans just don't want to do.
3
Amazing how many hypocrites now despise enforcing US law passed decades ago.
2
Well finally the vast machinery of Homeland Security has something to do! We never really thought that giant bureaucracy would be content to track a few terrorists did we? Next, our own citizens: brown people, liberals, and anyone who disagrees with the police state. Watch.
2
Why not just pack them in cattle cars eh? I recollect there is a model for that...
3
"Mr. Kelly promised before his confirmation to be a reasonable enforcer of defensible policies."
Almost all of Trump's unqualified, ideologically-rigid nominees have mouthed similar platitudes; Kelly is just the first -- of many to come -- to betray them.
Almost all of Trump's unqualified, ideologically-rigid nominees have mouthed similar platitudes; Kelly is just the first -- of many to come -- to betray them.
2
The Trump administration run by Stephen Bannon is an offense to every American value our soldiers have fought and died for. Ryan and McConnell couldn't care less. They are planning on filling their pockets with the massive donations from all the corporate benefactors of Trumpian fascist policies that they serve. The Republicans let the interests of our nation wash down the drain as they ignore Trump and his puppet masters. Every patriot in this country must rise up against those who support Trump or live with the guilt that they helped to bring fascism to the United States of America.
3
Let's be clear, these are illegal aliens, not immigrants. They have no right to be here. None!
Letting them break the law to illegally get in or remain in this country only sets the stage for them to see what other laws they can break and get away with.
I'm not a fan of Trump, but he is absolutely right on this one!
Letting them break the law to illegally get in or remain in this country only sets the stage for them to see what other laws they can break and get away with.
I'm not a fan of Trump, but he is absolutely right on this one!
1
Is the US going to be richer, safer, and freer society because of getting rid of illegal immigrants? Answer: No. Are there going to be more jobs created for Americans because of removal of illegal immigrants? Answer: No. Not the kind of jobs that the Trump supporters want anyways. The US consumers will have to pay more for certain items. Perhaps we should have a grocery store built just for the Trump supporters selling more expensive goods. They seem to want to deal with the consequence of negating what illegal immigrants contribute to this society economically. Think not. Unless this is the beginning of something else like rounding up Muslims next. Trump and Bannon, you use a religion for harnessing your political powers. You do not seem to practice your own compassionate Christianity, at all.
2
More hysteria from the ultra liberal NYT. Do interns write NYT editorials too? The authors of this essay apparently didn't even read the articles in this newspaper about Trump's instructions. They are deporting people who don't even belong here in the first place. Is Los Angeles a Sanctuary city? Now go look up gang activity in LA and in Northern Virginia, for example. Find that map of the USA that has the country divided into drug distribution zones by the various Mexican drug cartels. 80% of the drugs bought and sold on the streets of Chicago are from the Sinaloa cartel.
Why shouldn't ILLEGAL immigrants be frightened of being deported? You forget about the fear of Americans who have to tolerate the crime caused by certain illegal people who import their life of crime with them. It's unfortunate that hard working honest people are going to be caught up in the dragnet to deport illegal criminals but they need to show some pride in their new country and get right with the law.
There are many millions of legal immigrants in America and they have no fear of being deported. Even in Trump's America immigrants are welcome. Stop spreading fake news NYT and learn how to choose your words with less malice.
Why shouldn't ILLEGAL immigrants be frightened of being deported? You forget about the fear of Americans who have to tolerate the crime caused by certain illegal people who import their life of crime with them. It's unfortunate that hard working honest people are going to be caught up in the dragnet to deport illegal criminals but they need to show some pride in their new country and get right with the law.
There are many millions of legal immigrants in America and they have no fear of being deported. Even in Trump's America immigrants are welcome. Stop spreading fake news NYT and learn how to choose your words with less malice.
1
I was just watching an old episode of the PBS show "Finding Your Roots," which traces the immigrant ancestors of famous Americans. Our success and our glory is 100% due to our immigrant ancestors! And every American who is not a member of a native American tribe is the descendent of immigrants!
What is the Trump regime thinking??? Immigrants are literally our lifeblood, especially now in the days of low birthrate. For instance, Japan now has such a low birthrate that they must import immigrants or their whole economy will grind to a halt because too large a percentage of the people are retired and collecting pensions. Young people are needed to work, and immigrants are a younger population.
I feel like so much of what the Trump people do is not economically intelligent, and I believe, in fact, that in this case they are sacrificing sound economic planning and domestic policy specifically in order to do something violent, hurtful, and angry--conducting some sort of pageant of dominance and cruelty at great expense and inconvenience to show off to an angry 25% of Trump fanboys, mostly financed by the tax monies of successful blue states, a population where the majority does not want this policy and voted against it. So we not only get to cry our eyes out and die of shame, we also get to pay for expensive private jails and SWAT type warrantless raids on people of color. I hope they're fixing up a special place in hell for Trumputin/Bannon et al.
What is the Trump regime thinking??? Immigrants are literally our lifeblood, especially now in the days of low birthrate. For instance, Japan now has such a low birthrate that they must import immigrants or their whole economy will grind to a halt because too large a percentage of the people are retired and collecting pensions. Young people are needed to work, and immigrants are a younger population.
I feel like so much of what the Trump people do is not economically intelligent, and I believe, in fact, that in this case they are sacrificing sound economic planning and domestic policy specifically in order to do something violent, hurtful, and angry--conducting some sort of pageant of dominance and cruelty at great expense and inconvenience to show off to an angry 25% of Trump fanboys, mostly financed by the tax monies of successful blue states, a population where the majority does not want this policy and voted against it. So we not only get to cry our eyes out and die of shame, we also get to pay for expensive private jails and SWAT type warrantless raids on people of color. I hope they're fixing up a special place in hell for Trumputin/Bannon et al.
2
Only the NYT would have hysterics and howl that enforcing the LAW is "Un-American"
Only the NYT would wail and whine that people who have broken the law will get their just desserts as spelled out in the LAW
ILLEGALS are not lawfully in this country. They sneaked in. They pass forged or stolen documents to work. They commit perjury every time they sign an I-9 form swearing they are legally in the US and can work here.
Coming into the US without permission is a crime - anything from a misdemeanor to a felony if a repeat offense
Passing forged documents (fake ID) for their own gain is a crime. It is called "uttering" and is a felony
Committing perjury is a felony - and if it is Federal form on which they commit perjury, it is a Federal crime.
Enough with this open borders drivel. No to the NYT's wailing that the immigration laws must be changed to let law breakers stay.
Carpenters, construction workers, meat packers all use to make enough money to support a family in a modest manner. Now those jobs are filled by ILLEGALS who work for so little that they have to stuff multiple people into bedrooms to afford the rent.
WHo cares if they came here illegally and then decided to produce kids? The parents knew they could be deported if caught and didn't care enough about the kids they might have to avoid the problem. Having kids doesn't keep the house burglar out of jail and with his kids. No difference.
This kind of nonsense is why Clinton LOST!
Only the NYT would wail and whine that people who have broken the law will get their just desserts as spelled out in the LAW
ILLEGALS are not lawfully in this country. They sneaked in. They pass forged or stolen documents to work. They commit perjury every time they sign an I-9 form swearing they are legally in the US and can work here.
Coming into the US without permission is a crime - anything from a misdemeanor to a felony if a repeat offense
Passing forged documents (fake ID) for their own gain is a crime. It is called "uttering" and is a felony
Committing perjury is a felony - and if it is Federal form on which they commit perjury, it is a Federal crime.
Enough with this open borders drivel. No to the NYT's wailing that the immigration laws must be changed to let law breakers stay.
Carpenters, construction workers, meat packers all use to make enough money to support a family in a modest manner. Now those jobs are filled by ILLEGALS who work for so little that they have to stuff multiple people into bedrooms to afford the rent.
WHo cares if they came here illegally and then decided to produce kids? The parents knew they could be deported if caught and didn't care enough about the kids they might have to avoid the problem. Having kids doesn't keep the house burglar out of jail and with his kids. No difference.
This kind of nonsense is why Clinton LOST!
4
There are 50,000 "illegal" Irish immigrants here in the US. If none are picked up and deported too, then this truly is a racist policy built on hate of anyone who isn't white. Hope someone keeps track.
102
SO, now Trump has his own KGB (or I guess it would be TGB - Trump Guard Patrol). If this doesn't make the Republicans consider an independent investigation, I don't know what will. Are they worried he will start having them locked up and deported? After all, we are all immigrants except the Native Americans from the past 400 years! Next, Trump's known critics and enemies will start "disappearing", as in countries with authoritarian dictatorships. Might we ALL just block Homeland Security from getting to anyone, as they can't arrest us all? What happened to our America - the land of the free and the home of the brave? How could one person wreak such havoc in such a small amount of time? We, obviously, were taking our liberties for granted.
2
Our so-called "President" continues the bizarre practice of saying that in many ways, including respect for basic human rights, the U.S. is no better than Russia. These measures are a chilling step towards making such assertions true.
1
I agree with President Trump and Mr. Kelly that we should seriously address issues that threaten public safety. That's why I would like them to extend the deportation effort to include all the drivers who will endanger my life on the local roads today. Tailgaters and texters should be denied due process without question.
3
The way I understand it, most immigrants, of whatever degree of illegality, are here to work and make money, not to commit crime, and the economies of urban areas are dependent on these workers who comprise a reliable work force and pay taxes. The so-called sanctuary cities do not want ICE to lay off because these cities are beneficent; "sanctuary cities" want ICE to lay off because mass deportation would be economically devastating to the town. I recently read in The Philadelphia Inquirer where, just across the river, in Camden N.j., immigrant neighborhoods are some of the most prosperous and revitalized in that troubled city. We need a working immigration policy, but not one that causes more trouble than it prevents.
2
We as a country are in desperate times. This obvious path towards totalitarianism should scare us all. Our own kids have seen ICE staff at subway stations in Queens, NY and it scares them for many reasons, foremost among them being they have grown up in an inclusive neighborhood of people from many backgrounds and see this as an assault on how they were raised to believe all people are an essential part of the fabric of our society. We can only hope our sanctuary city of NY will be able to resist this move towards dictatorship.
1
There are scores of Illegal Irish Immigrants in the US.
Not one is being deported. Why?
Because, gosh, they're white.
Not one is being deported. Why?
Because, gosh, they're white.
4
Congress must be held accountable for shirking its duty now ever since Ronald Reagan's Presidency by not crafting along with any Predident a sane, reasonable and compassionate immigration policy. If Congress would get down to the business of legislating by compromising to tackle these tough issues, then we must tell them to be quiet until they do their job. That goes for Democrats and Republicans, alike. Stop this man by taking the matter out of his hands.
2
This paper is an assault on American values.
1
Trump parallels Hitler with Kelly as Goering or Himmler, your choice, by establishing the equivalent of a Gestapo in the United States. Has no one learned anything from history?
2
Assault on American values? Nonsense.
1
What would Reagan do ? Let them stay of course.
Meanwhile, NO President had a better record stemming the tide of undocumented immigration than Barack Obama. It's about time Republicans come clean and applaud Obama's record and explain why it was OK when Reagan let them stay.
Meanwhile, NO President had a better record stemming the tide of undocumented immigration than Barack Obama. It's about time Republicans come clean and applaud Obama's record and explain why it was OK when Reagan let them stay.
"An Assault on American Values"? Most people cite Ms. Lazarus' poem on the Statue of Liberty as a reflection of our values; nice poem, raised a lot of money, but is it a statement of our commonly held values? What happens when the values of one group are antithetical to those of another? Violence? Breathless editorials? Name calling? Violence in the streets? Who decides which values are, or are not, a threat to our common good? Does a value remain set for eternity or does it change over time? Are values always good? Do the values of the owner of a news outlet trump (cheap, sorry) those of the huddled masses yearning to be free of endless hyperbole and synthetic drama? To what extent does our acceptance of a value system reflect our personal bias, as opposed to an objective appraisal of the good?
Back to Ms. Lazarus: the inscription is a poem, it implies admittance to all, but is silent on legislation and administrative law governing admittance. Perhaps it is significant that Lady Liberty, unlike Justice, does not wear a blindfold.
Back to Ms. Lazarus: the inscription is a poem, it implies admittance to all, but is silent on legislation and administrative law governing admittance. Perhaps it is significant that Lady Liberty, unlike Justice, does not wear a blindfold.
So, no one noticed the jobs these immigrants were doing? Cleaning your house, minding your children, mowing your lawn, cleaning your hotel room, serving your lunch? Are they just brown people, or do they incude the northern Irish and the Polish/eastern euporean construction workers....or white immigrants?
Also, are the immigration police going to wear brown shirts?
They'll be in place to get rid of the next group.
Also, are the immigration police going to wear brown shirts?
They'll be in place to get rid of the next group.
2
Trump and his lackey's are master at "playing to his base". This is a perfect example. Once all the chaos is fully underway, people will be hiding under their beds and afraid to answer the door. I wonder if all the unemployed Rust Belt folks who voted for Trump will be packing up their jalopies and heading west to start picking artichokes in Watsonville, garlic in Gilroy, or lettuce in the Central Valley? Doubtful. The tsrgets of Trumps ridiculous order do very very hard work. Trump's folks will wait until he brings back those big fat manufacturing jobs he's promised...30.00 an hour with full benefits....They are the real dreamers. The other folks, some illegal of course, are just trying to make a living. They gave up dreaming a long time ago.
1
The Trump administration should encourage reading of one of the seminal documents of the 20th century, the 1000+ pages of the diary of Dresden resident Victor Klemperer, published in two editions 25 years after his death in 1995. Day by day he describes life under National Socialism, the increasing hardships, mistreatment of minorities, racism, legal decrees and dissolution of rights from 1933 -1945 in Germany. In the diary he studies the language of the regime, populism vs. thinking, 'belief', 'enemy of the state', 'heartlands' which relate to the seizure and expansion of power by the supreme leader. Remarkably, many details of the language are mirrored in the Trump administration. His complete diaries are available digitally an the Internet Archive or in paperback.
3
If the Times doesn't like existing immigration laws, then write an editorial about how Congress should act to change it.
But do not denigrate the administration of the first President in my lifetime to actually go on the record and promise to enforce EXISTING laws on the books. Anything less than enforcement is the true attack on our American values of law and order versus tyrants who choose to selectively enforce some laws and not others.
But do not denigrate the administration of the first President in my lifetime to actually go on the record and promise to enforce EXISTING laws on the books. Anything less than enforcement is the true attack on our American values of law and order versus tyrants who choose to selectively enforce some laws and not others.
2
I don't understand the position that the U.S. enforcing its laws is somehow wrong. What are the implications of saying that we get to pick and choose among laws? If it is illegal to immigrate to this country without permission, then that law should be enforced, right? If it's an unjust law, it should be changed. But, if it can't be changed because the democratic process doesn't allow for a minority to change laws, what exactly are we dealing with? I'll tell you. We're dealing with a group of people (progressives and pro-illegal immigration advocates) who don't care what the law says or what the majority thinks. This, if adopted as a position be everybody, would be the end of the U.S. as we know it. Enforce the law, regardless of how painful. It's worth it in the long-run.
After the last election, so called American Values have gone down the toilet and the Teal American values have emerged.
1
All this worrisome talk about who is going to pick our fruits and vegetables is hilarious! 60% of the produce angry liberals buy from Whole Foods or other major supermarkets is imported from Peru, Chile, Mexico and New Zealand. There are only a few cultivated crops left which are still picked by hand. In other words- nobody is going to take away your kale salads- so calm down.
2
I thought there was supposed to be a hiring freeze in the federal government. How then can we hire an additional 10,000 ICE agents and another 5,000 border patrol agents? I wonder how much their collective salaries and benefits will total. Maybe that is where our money for NPR will end up?
2
Stop the Hitlerian Republicans now before we reincarnate a Nazi nation.
2
Hm.. Some people commenting seem to have a problem with "American values" according to the Times. Maybe if we thought about this in terms of "Christian values" it might make more sense. After all, if you take most people who hold among their version of American values throwing out illegal immigrants who are here, say, because they were in mortal danger in Honduras and whose only "crime" is having invalid SS#s so they can do jobs that (to quote our so-called president) "no Americans want to do"--most people with values like that identify as Christians. But I don't think that's what Jesus would do with those illegals. This is a lot more complex than just "it's the law" and that's why there have been exceptions to the law. The law has been prioritizing the deportation of illegals who commit crimes that are a real threat to society. That's been going on. Obama deported more than Bush. This is a blatant play to satisfy an ignorant, racist base who like to think they have values, even Christian values, but really have rationalizations for a self-centered, self-serving set of prejudices, resentments and animosities that have nothing to do with the values on which, YES, this country was founded. (2nd submission)
1
I fear one day in the TImes I will read about "undocumented" murderers and thieves. The Editorial Board is without total merit. You have NO respect for the rule of law.
1
Sounds to me like step 1 of an ethnic cleansing campaign. First Trump slanders an ethnic group - then deports them.
1
Praying upon the defenseless, is this the nation we have become? What kind of leadership thinks this is a good use of our resources or a fair representation of our values? I am scared and ashamed.
1
As much as I oppose Trump and am very much opposed to hiring thousands of new government employees (for any purpose but especially for this one) it does have to be acknowledged that these people came here, for whatever reason, and remain here in knowing contradiction of the law. To say the laws that already exist should not be obeyed or carried out. Yes, there very well may be human tragedies associated with this action but the law should be carried out. If the law is wrong, change it.
2
There will be a tremendous backlash when WASPs have to cut their own grass, many popular restaurants are forced to close and farmers in California can't find anyone to harvest their crops.
2
We saw what became of the infamous 'war on drugs'. Now we're about to embark on a 'war on immigration'. The Republican party started the war on drugs because it was good electoral politics back in the late 1960's and Bill Clinton cemented it. The outcome will be the same, greater militarization domestically, skyrocketing incarceration rates, racial polarization, billions of tax dollars for law enforcement, both political parties capitulating to the electoral allure of criminalizing human behavior, more prisons and ultimately a tragic result that we will struggle to reckon with down the road. History repeats itself...
1
Leave it to the NYT to proudly laud Obama for his flaunting of and total disregard for the laws of the nation, and to criticize Trump for enforcing them. If you don't want those who have broken the law by entering the US without permission, tell your Congressman to enact new legislation. When you allow everyone or anyone to obey and enforce only those laws with which they personally agree, there is in fact no law.
I had hopes for Kelly. I hoped he wasn't a Flynn, a Hannity, an O'Reilly, a Conway; and certainly not a Trump. I hoped Kelly might have some heart, some grace, and that he was somehow in contact with our better angels. It isn't always what we do that matters, it's also how we do it. And Trump and his junta seem to be deranged sadists. It seems nothing they do is done without a satisfied snarl, as if the whole world is their enemy.
While there is room for a reasoned debate on immigration, it's not as if America is profligate in its generosity to refugees, many of whom are displaced by our policies of war and our long history of overconsumption. As Trump and his henchmen castigate what they deviously call our “open borders” policy, they say nothing of the corporations that profit from near-slave labor. They say nothing of the Chambers of Commerce who paid Congressmen to turn their backs on the issues of immigration. Visas are available by the thousand for the smart IT immigrants, but for the pickers of fruit and cutters of meat, none.
While there is room for a reasoned debate on immigration, it's not as if America is profligate in its generosity to refugees, many of whom are displaced by our policies of war and our long history of overconsumption. As Trump and his henchmen castigate what they deviously call our “open borders” policy, they say nothing of the corporations that profit from near-slave labor. They say nothing of the Chambers of Commerce who paid Congressmen to turn their backs on the issues of immigration. Visas are available by the thousand for the smart IT immigrants, but for the pickers of fruit and cutters of meat, none.
1
And, they said it couldn't happen here, We'll here we are. Were are the voices to counter this this? Who will stop Trump and his resident thugs Bannon and Miller? This isn't about keeping America safe, it's about keeping America white. There is no leadership on the Democratic side, and the Republicans want their right wing agenda passed. People in positions of power especially lawyers need to get in there and fight and the fight. Can you imagine were we will be in another year if Trump keeps going?
1
This editorial and so many of the comments are horrified by the actions and policies of The Republican President and his Homeland Secretary, General Kelly. The truth is that they are interpreting Immigration statutes now on the books. While it's to disagree with their interpretation of those statutes, we could not have a reasoned debate about necessary and appropriate changes to the Immigration statutes without understanding that General Kelly's memos interpreting those statutes reflect the policies advocated by Mitch McConnell and virtually every Republican Senator.
When statutes affect the lives of human beings, those statutes must be interpreted to temper justice with mercy. That is a fundamental Christian value that ought to have the support of Republicans who claim to represent Christian values. Sadly, the Republicans just don't agree.
When statutes affect the lives of human beings, those statutes must be interpreted to temper justice with mercy. That is a fundamental Christian value that ought to have the support of Republicans who claim to represent Christian values. Sadly, the Republicans just don't agree.
2
You mean ""American Values" according to liberals. When I received my Ph.D. from Harvard, I could not have become a (legal) immigrant. All of India had a quota of 100. I do not recall any marches against this policy.
Eventually the policy was changed by the Kennedy administration. People from India have been busy helping to make America a leader in IT, thousands of people from India are treating American patients, and about half the motels in the US are owned by Indian Americans.
On the downside there has also been some job loss for the native born. (But also, some jobs have been created by legal immigrants).
Immigration is a tricky issue. The law must be enforced and talk about "American values" is nonsense. The Statue of Liberty was dedicated in 1886 when the population density was one fifth of what it is now.
The small quota for India shows that the Statue of Liberty was never taken literally by the US. It is ironic that it is taken more literally now )that it has become less realistic.
But these 11 million people are here and most have built their lives in this country. So a solution must be found. I am not sure that Mr. Trump is interested in a humane solution, and I KNOW that the NYT is not interested in a solution at all (except perhaps to reward lawbreakers with citizenship).
Eventually the policy was changed by the Kennedy administration. People from India have been busy helping to make America a leader in IT, thousands of people from India are treating American patients, and about half the motels in the US are owned by Indian Americans.
On the downside there has also been some job loss for the native born. (But also, some jobs have been created by legal immigrants).
Immigration is a tricky issue. The law must be enforced and talk about "American values" is nonsense. The Statue of Liberty was dedicated in 1886 when the population density was one fifth of what it is now.
The small quota for India shows that the Statue of Liberty was never taken literally by the US. It is ironic that it is taken more literally now )that it has become less realistic.
But these 11 million people are here and most have built their lives in this country. So a solution must be found. I am not sure that Mr. Trump is interested in a humane solution, and I KNOW that the NYT is not interested in a solution at all (except perhaps to reward lawbreakers with citizenship).
How is it we suddenly have money to carry out these cruel, disruptive plans to deport millions of harmless people who do jobs few Americans will do, but we don't have enough to actually help poor Americans, including children?
2
What is the argument in favor of permitting people to sneak into the country?
You want to immigrate here? In your home country visit your local US embassy and apply. Profess to want to learn English, state without equivocation that you will abide by our laws and no other. Learn our history. Discard your little costumes and headgear. State definitively that you want to be an American.
You want to immigrate here? In your home country visit your local US embassy and apply. Profess to want to learn English, state without equivocation that you will abide by our laws and no other. Learn our history. Discard your little costumes and headgear. State definitively that you want to be an American.
Hire 10,000 enforcers? Build detention centers? When the millions of 'aliens' are deported will the enforcers lose their jobs? Will the detention centers be closed? Or, will new duties, and purpose, be created? Perhaps this horror of an administration will find new 'enemies' to round up and sequester. There is a lot a stake here. Power corrupts. We need to keep those in power in check.
1
I retired from the EPA, yes, THAT EPA, scorned by conservatives. I worked in the area of pesticide risk benefit analysis which used a somewhat "mystical" 1:1,000,000 threshold as a decision point for keeping/chucking uses of a pesticide. (But, then again, that was in the Age of Reason.) Whatever our conclusions, we had to ask for public comment. We couldn't simply just DoIt!
I am amazed, amazed, that The Donald can simply go out and "round up the usual suspects" without going through a similar EPA comment period. While our estimates were statistical, we were at least protecting a small population of "theoretical" people, if you will, from demonstrated risks. Yet, with the stroke of a pen, The Donald will affect millions of real people and real families, without asking for public comment, without known risk, without costs.
But why would The Donald, who he lost the popular vote, ask the public for comment, when he could just get his College of Homeland Sycophants to do his bidding, rather than that of the American people.
I am amazed, amazed, that The Donald can simply go out and "round up the usual suspects" without going through a similar EPA comment period. While our estimates were statistical, we were at least protecting a small population of "theoretical" people, if you will, from demonstrated risks. Yet, with the stroke of a pen, The Donald will affect millions of real people and real families, without asking for public comment, without known risk, without costs.
But why would The Donald, who he lost the popular vote, ask the public for comment, when he could just get his College of Homeland Sycophants to do his bidding, rather than that of the American people.
1
Please stop hyperventilating, NYT. We will be deporting felons who are here illegally. Felons. Oh, and did I mention they were felons?
“He plans to publish data on crimes committed by unauthorized immigrants…”
It sounds like fear of actual facts, which is odd for a newspaper.
It sounds like fear of actual facts, which is odd for a newspaper.
When any Hispanic in America is automatically suspect, even Puerto Ricans are at risk. "Show me your green card," a highway patrolman demanded of a Puerto Rican he'd stopped (for a burned out tail light.)
Of course a Puerto Rican doesn't have a green card. Like people born in any of the fifty states, Puerto Ricans are birthright American citizens. Will that protect them from this insane purge?
Of course a Puerto Rican doesn't have a green card. Like people born in any of the fifty states, Puerto Ricans are birthright American citizens. Will that protect them from this insane purge?
4
Every other President of the UNITED States of America has done at least a few positive chores in the first month of office. We're going backwards fast. Mr. Trump, you know you have no business in this position. Show us your taxes, then you can come back to class.
4
Baloney.
Every alien who has ever entered this country illegally knew that if they were caught, there is a risk of deportation. And, they also knew that any family members would be deported as well.
They took the risk, and that conscious choice may backfire on them, and their families.
As for this: "The Obama administration recognized that millions of unauthorized immigrants, especially those with citizen children and strong ties to their communities and this country, deserved a chance to stay and get right with the law."
No, what the Obama administration did was out of the cynical progressive left playbook: Create a class of people who are dependent upon you for their livelihood and well-being to cultivate voting support. It was cold, calculating, and contrary to American tradition - which us - to uphold the law. There was nothing kind, or generous, about it.
Is it fair to separate young kids born here - cross-border citizens - from their families ? No, I don't think so.
But who said life is fair ?
The parents should either arrange for custody pending their re-entry to the US, or take the kids with them knowing that the kids, at least, can re-enter the US at any time.
Doing anything other than enforcing the law, is manifestly unfair to the hundreds of thousands of people who, every year, stand in line and follow the rules in order to get a better life here in the US.
It is an insult to all of them, to allow the illegals to jump the queue.
2
"if Congress gives him the huge sums required to hire 10,000 ICE officers and 5,000 Border Patrol agents."
Only when there are costs associated with law enforcement or defense does the NY Times raise the "fiscal responsibility" issue. Otherwise, the Times has never met a spending program it didn't want to double.
Only when there are costs associated with law enforcement or defense does the NY Times raise the "fiscal responsibility" issue. Otherwise, the Times has never met a spending program it didn't want to double.
2
Does trump an his faux news viewing zombies realize who will control hispanic neighborhoods when everyone is afraid of the police? It will really help keep America safe to destabilize Mexico by returning 10 million to Mexico's unemployment rolls while cutting off 25 billion in payments to families AND slashing export jobs to Mexico's largest trading partner.
2
Need that special prosecutor, and Congress to investigate!