It's looking more and more like the rise of the 1st American Reich.
21
The larger question is "who watches over all the law enforcement agencies?" There have been hundreds of unreported or under reported stories of people being detained or their names "put on a no-fly list" or their properties being seized or even being held up by highway patrols on a freeway and if you had more cash than they thought you should have then its seized, we are fast becoming a police state or a corrupt state. These rogue agents are unaccountable and the "system" covers up their faults. As a law abiding citizenry we should systematically peel back these layers and remove or modify these laws so that law enforcement agents become accountable to the people that serve them. The ICE union chief is just one example.
17
Why is the union leader's statement inflammatory? Because Greenhouse disagrees with enforcement of federal law? How many union statements have been issued of a truly vicious and personal nature, but Greenhouse never chose to recognize them as inflammatory. We know that Obama's deportation numbers were jiggered to represent include those turned back at the border and that large number of deportees was never previously included in deportation numbers, but Greenhouse knows that too. But intentionally ignores it to make a point.
Greenhouse further points out that every illegal in the US who works without authorization is a law breaker. Greenhouse doesn't care about law or right and wrong, only about getting good Democrats onto the voting roles.
Greenhouse further points out that every illegal in the US who works without authorization is a law breaker. Greenhouse doesn't care about law or right and wrong, only about getting good Democrats onto the voting roles.
22
Given the choice I would prefer to go after an unarmed, peaceful, frighten person than an actual armed, dangerous criminal. Sounds like this union is becoming a safe community for psychopaths and sociopaths; like ISIS is a safe community for the truly deranged.
22
Many months ago, when Trump was revving himself up about Mexicans, I looked into how many undocumented people come from south of the border. Surprise, less than half. The rest are Canadians, Asians, Europeans etc. I don't see the big brave ICE guys out there doing raids on Canadians. Just like Trump, it's all the big show, good for their ego. They are disgusting.
51
It seems odd that the many angry comments here do not call for Trump to review the supposed documentary evidence that his wife achieved her US citizenship in a legal manner. There is sufficient paper trail, with big blanks, to have led Trump to make this assurance. Yet we have not heard from him on this topic. Nor have any commenters, so concerned with lawbreaking, insisted on this disclosure.
36
Things are getting conflated here. People brought here as infants and children are not criminals. Many are escaping likely death. I find it remarkable that we can show such concern for the life of unborn children, yet that concern seems to disappear if those children aren't born in America. And No, I don't think we're a nation of laws. That's not my primary definition. I think we're a nation of aspirations, ideals, hope and promise. And we make the laws and the laws can be changed. For most of us, our ancestors came here as immigrants before these current laws existed. We could, in theory, go back to less-restrictive laws. Finally, just because someone commits an illegal act, doesn't make THEM illegal. If someone gets a speeding ticket, or cheats on their taxes, we don't define them by that act. Many of the best, most hardworking, family-oriented, and faith-based people I know are immigrants -- and I suspect many of them aren't here legally. But, for my part, I think we're better for them.
55
Columnists like Linda Greenhouse who argue that unauthorized immigrants should not be deported should, at least, offer alternatives to deportation. How are we discourage illegal immigration if we reward those who elude the Border Patrol immunity to deportation? If we reward those who enter the country illegally or overstay visas with permission to reside and work in the United States, why should anyone bother to comply with the immigration and naturalization process? Why not make illegal immigration more convenient by setting up a separate lanes at the international bridges? The slow lane would be for those who would have visas to present while the fast lane would be for people who would be waived through after declaring their intention of entering the country illegally?
38
I'm thinking of the proposed North Dakota law that would make it legal to run over protesters on a highway if you do it "accidentally". Many of the protesters are Native Americans. The picture of Guadalupe Garcia de Rayos is heart breaking. The notion of shooting a youngster at play is chilling.
I teach immigrants every day at a community college. Most work hard and with such hope to create an opportunity for themselves and their families. Many go on to have productive careers and pay taxes here, or they go back to their country and improve life there.
Canada makes itself stronger as it lures our immigrants, many highly educated and sought after by U.S. firms. I read that California Central Valley farmers ivoted in large numbers for Trump and then were surprised when his actions re: immigrants deprives them of workers needed to bring in the crops.
The Statue of Liberty still stands. Immigrants talk about how much it helps that U.S. citizens show up at airports, offer legal assistance, affirm that they are valued and welcome human beings.
Let's work together to create a path to legal citizenship, but while it's broken, let's display humanity and mercy. Let's remember our own origins and traditions. Let's recall how immigrants have enriched our nation over its history and be sure that continues.
I teach immigrants every day at a community college. Most work hard and with such hope to create an opportunity for themselves and their families. Many go on to have productive careers and pay taxes here, or they go back to their country and improve life there.
Canada makes itself stronger as it lures our immigrants, many highly educated and sought after by U.S. firms. I read that California Central Valley farmers ivoted in large numbers for Trump and then were surprised when his actions re: immigrants deprives them of workers needed to bring in the crops.
The Statue of Liberty still stands. Immigrants talk about how much it helps that U.S. citizens show up at airports, offer legal assistance, affirm that they are valued and welcome human beings.
Let's work together to create a path to legal citizenship, but while it's broken, let's display humanity and mercy. Let's remember our own origins and traditions. Let's recall how immigrants have enriched our nation over its history and be sure that continues.
61
I get very annoyed when I read about border agents. wall building, or sending more ICE agents out to terrify the general public. The answer to our so called "illegal problem" is very simple. Levy very heavy fines on the businesses/people that employ them. The great majority of folks south of the border come here to work. If there are no jobs for them, they won't come and "problem" solved. This will never happen of course because we want "cheap" labor and allow businesses to buy our government.
31
This article is not "about" illegal aliens, despite numerous comments labeling it this way. It is about excessive zeal in shooting people unnecessarily, and a mistaken priority in deporting those easily trapped instead of those most likely to do harm, the latter having been prioritized both by Trump and by Obama.
The implication is that the mindset of these officers leaves much to be desired, being more about throwing their weight around than enforcing the law.
The implication is that the mindset of these officers leaves much to be desired, being more about throwing their weight around than enforcing the law.
21
Border Patrol agent Mesa may have been in a warlike border skirmish in his mind, but it's hard to imagine that he could reasonably have believed that this teen, running onto U.S. territory, had no rights to be treated as a person given the massive interchange between these interlinked cities and an absence of a "true" war between the neighboring countries. That's one of the questions before the Supreme Court. Frankly, I wonder what the Obama administration was doing to line up with this rogue officer for seven years.
11
I'm fine with building a wall or whatever we want to do to control our borders; however, the treatment of those already here has to take a just path.
So, Linda, next week would you mind explaining exactly how the whole leaking thing works. You know, how Snowden must face justice but those who leak against Trump to the NYT should face nothing. Will Trump call for the death sentence for leakers in the intelligence community like he did for Snowden?
There is one entity in America that has no protection at all: the individual. Discuss.
So, Linda, next week would you mind explaining exactly how the whole leaking thing works. You know, how Snowden must face justice but those who leak against Trump to the NYT should face nothing. Will Trump call for the death sentence for leakers in the intelligence community like he did for Snowden?
There is one entity in America that has no protection at all: the individual. Discuss.
8
Seems the Trump idiots will excuse anything, absolutely anything, that he does. He is a mentally ill, narcissistic idiot and I have no respect for any of you.
23
Another false narrative. The author claims she is writing about immigration, and her readers comment on immigration. Not true. She is writing about illegal immigration, i. e. those who sneaked into our country, and that's a completely different subject.
Republicans, conservatives, Trump, Tea Party all welcome immigrants. They do not want illegal immigrants. Trump promised to deport many of them during campaign and in large part people voted for him on that basis. So, why is the left attacking Trump for doing what he promised to do?
There is claim that "400,000 unauthorized immigrants" were deported per year. Not true. This numbers includes all those turned back at the border before they cross and go to court, that is, before they became illegal immigrants. Why don't we get the number of real deportees, those Obama government sought out? And really, what is so untrue about the statement "our officers were prevented from enforcing the most basic immigration laws"? Those are not the words of a single person - he was speaking for ICE. Is NYT saying they are all liars?
Who will watch the wathcers? Well, there is the liberal press, ready and willing to catch anything wrong done by Trump's team, and numerous left wing organizations and lawyers whose life's work is to defend the illegals.
Republicans, conservatives, Trump, Tea Party all welcome immigrants. They do not want illegal immigrants. Trump promised to deport many of them during campaign and in large part people voted for him on that basis. So, why is the left attacking Trump for doing what he promised to do?
There is claim that "400,000 unauthorized immigrants" were deported per year. Not true. This numbers includes all those turned back at the border before they cross and go to court, that is, before they became illegal immigrants. Why don't we get the number of real deportees, those Obama government sought out? And really, what is so untrue about the statement "our officers were prevented from enforcing the most basic immigration laws"? Those are not the words of a single person - he was speaking for ICE. Is NYT saying they are all liars?
Who will watch the wathcers? Well, there is the liberal press, ready and willing to catch anything wrong done by Trump's team, and numerous left wing organizations and lawyers whose life's work is to defend the illegals.
25
"Whom do federal immigration agents despise more: former President Barack Obama, or the immigrants whose lives are in their hands?"
A long time ago a professor taught us that often it is more important to ask the right question. Linda Greenhouse's question will be pondered by thoughtful, empathetic Americans, perhaps some in the media, but I have doubts about it mattering much to this new administration who even refuses to follow the basic laws as written in our Constitution 240 years ago.
A long time ago a professor taught us that often it is more important to ask the right question. Linda Greenhouse's question will be pondered by thoughtful, empathetic Americans, perhaps some in the media, but I have doubts about it mattering much to this new administration who even refuses to follow the basic laws as written in our Constitution 240 years ago.
27
Please remember these people are have crossed the border illegally,. have used fake SS numbers to work, etc. The list of crimes they commit in order to stay in this country our numerous. Obama was wrong to exempt some from deportation.
We are a nation of laws and that means laws should be enforced. Arresting and deporting illegal aliens is part of law and order. I am glad to see that this is happening. Maybe some will understand that they would be better off if they returned to Mexico or wherever NOW.
As for the crocodile tears about the splitting families - well Families get split when one member goes to jail and I don't see you crying about that. Remember they are always free to take their family with them so stop with the canard about splitting families.
We are a nation of laws and that means laws should be enforced. Arresting and deporting illegal aliens is part of law and order. I am glad to see that this is happening. Maybe some will understand that they would be better off if they returned to Mexico or wherever NOW.
As for the crocodile tears about the splitting families - well Families get split when one member goes to jail and I don't see you crying about that. Remember they are always free to take their family with them so stop with the canard about splitting families.
30
Of all the various issues swirling around Washington these days, the enforcement of our immigration laws is not the one I am overly concerned about.
I could care less if Trump deports felon illegal aliens by the thousands, just as Obama did.
People better start conserving their energy for what is coming down the pike from the Trump administration. Protesting for a single individual who has obviously broken our immigration and other laws is a ridiculous waste of time.
Nobody from outside of our country has the right to be in our country, even with a visa.
If you think it is any different in all of the other countries of the world, you are ignorant. You go and try to just up and go to any place else and work illegally and see how long you and your family will last, including Mexico and Central America. No mas.
I could care less if Trump deports felon illegal aliens by the thousands, just as Obama did.
People better start conserving their energy for what is coming down the pike from the Trump administration. Protesting for a single individual who has obviously broken our immigration and other laws is a ridiculous waste of time.
Nobody from outside of our country has the right to be in our country, even with a visa.
If you think it is any different in all of the other countries of the world, you are ignorant. You go and try to just up and go to any place else and work illegally and see how long you and your family will last, including Mexico and Central America. No mas.
12
Enforcing our nation's already generous immigration laws means identifying, apprehending and repatriating unauthorized foreign nationals whenever and where ever ICE can - that includes target-rich environments (e.g. sanctuary cities). The problem of sustained mass-infiltration of our nation by undocumented aliens has been decades in the making and will no doubt take decades to solve but amnesty can never again be part of the solution.
21
President Trump has not "expanded the category of immigrants deemed worth pursuing and deporting." The Immigrant Responsibility Act, which Bill Clinton signed into law in 1996. This act, which passed with bi-partisan majorities in both houses, calls for the deportation of unauthorized immigrants. It makes all unauthorized immigrants worth pursuing and deporting. However, ICE is still primarily focusing on those who have committed violent crimes. Once the violent felons are gone, ICE will probably focus on felons who have posed as U.S. citizens presented false documents to work illegally in the United States. U.S. laws makes this a felony offense punishable by up to five years in prison.
20
@William Case:
Correct. Trump is merely enforcing the law, which, as you said, has been passed by both parties. So, why are the liberals against enforcing this law? Why do we hear their loud distress when an illegal gets deported but not when a veteran doesn't get his due care?
Correct. Trump is merely enforcing the law, which, as you said, has been passed by both parties. So, why are the liberals against enforcing this law? Why do we hear their loud distress when an illegal gets deported but not when a veteran doesn't get his due care?
18
If people pay others to smuggle them in to this country, if they hide from authorities, use stolen IDs to get work, don't pay taxes, don't spend the tax free money they earned in this country but send it home to El Salvador or Mexico and they get caught, then they don't have a leg to stand on. If they brought children on this criminal adventure then they deserve no mercy either. If my husband and I knock over a liquor store and go to jail our children become wards of the state and nobody sheds a tear for them. Why should undocumented criminals be any different.
I am a Democrat and a humane and kind person. This immigration disaster has been created by Republicans to import cheap labor, the leverage they had over those people did not hurt either, they were treated like slaves and any attempt by Democrats to regulate the situation was killed by Republicans in Congress. So here comes Trump and wants to build a wall, wants to deport all 11 Million, roughs up a handful, gets 600 on the bus to Mexico and now we are back to where we started. Nothing gets done and those Americans that object to the rough treatment are bleeding hearts and those that want deportation are bad people.
I am also an immigrant, I came here legally, I have been a citizen for more years than I care to remember but in my heart I am no longer an American. This country has changed and is no better than those South American countries everybody is leaving
I am a Democrat and a humane and kind person. This immigration disaster has been created by Republicans to import cheap labor, the leverage they had over those people did not hurt either, they were treated like slaves and any attempt by Democrats to regulate the situation was killed by Republicans in Congress. So here comes Trump and wants to build a wall, wants to deport all 11 Million, roughs up a handful, gets 600 on the bus to Mexico and now we are back to where we started. Nothing gets done and those Americans that object to the rough treatment are bleeding hearts and those that want deportation are bad people.
I am also an immigrant, I came here legally, I have been a citizen for more years than I care to remember but in my heart I am no longer an American. This country has changed and is no better than those South American countries everybody is leaving
16
Even if Trump personifies incompetent malevolence, at least some of the like-minded people under him are bound to be both competent and malevolent. It seems the lessons of democracy have to be relearned every once in a while, and there is a large payment for each lesson in the currency of cruel and unnecessary suffering.
4
Without wishing to denigrate all ICE officers, I suspect that working for the agency requires not much education--maybe just a GED. And many of the individuals attracted to the work are harboring bias against immigrants in the first place.
So here we have a cadre of the poorly educated and biased entrusted with providing humane treatment to the immigrants they seize--and that just isn't going to happen. A more sinister consideration is this: Is the Trump presidency starting its pogrom with "aliens", with the long term goal of getting experience so that they can eventually detain others who don't agree with Mr. Trump?
The possibilities make my blood run cold!
So here we have a cadre of the poorly educated and biased entrusted with providing humane treatment to the immigrants they seize--and that just isn't going to happen. A more sinister consideration is this: Is the Trump presidency starting its pogrom with "aliens", with the long term goal of getting experience so that they can eventually detain others who don't agree with Mr. Trump?
The possibilities make my blood run cold!
12
Who will guard the guardians? is an apt question for the entire Trump administration. and especially so for those entrused with enforcing our laws.
The treatment of immigrants is only the tip of the iceberg. Our citizens will not be immune from harsh treatment if they happen to need health care, have a different skin tone from the accepted one or don't have the proper amount of money. Descrimination can be applied against anyone who can not defend themselves in our country which prides itself on justice.
Keep up your great work, Ms. Greenhouse.
The treatment of immigrants is only the tip of the iceberg. Our citizens will not be immune from harsh treatment if they happen to need health care, have a different skin tone from the accepted one or don't have the proper amount of money. Descrimination can be applied against anyone who can not defend themselves in our country which prides itself on justice.
Keep up your great work, Ms. Greenhouse.
20
Enough of this "undocumented" rhetorical euphemistic nonsense. They illegally entered our country or illegally stayed over in our country.
No matter whether they came from Canada or Mexico or some sea or airport all illegal immigration and immigrants are not humanely humbly empathetically treated equal. Slavic models and German draft dodgers and Scottish gold diggers are preferred over any one black or brown or Mexican or Muslim or Arab or African or Asian.
Legal American immigration is too slow too costly too complicated too confusing and too inconsistent with American values and interests.
How many Canadians sneak into America hiding their thick Canadian accents, maple syrup stench and love of hockey?
No matter whether they came from Canada or Mexico or some sea or airport all illegal immigration and immigrants are not humanely humbly empathetically treated equal. Slavic models and German draft dodgers and Scottish gold diggers are preferred over any one black or brown or Mexican or Muslim or Arab or African or Asian.
Legal American immigration is too slow too costly too complicated too confusing and too inconsistent with American values and interests.
How many Canadians sneak into America hiding their thick Canadian accents, maple syrup stench and love of hockey?
7
@blackmamba:
Ok, you make good points. They why didn't Obama and the democrats, who owned and ruled the entire government for two years (filibuster free), made no changes whatsoever in the current laws? That was in 2009-2010. Why didn't you take them to task then? Why did you and those of your mind acquiesce? Why did you excuse Obama and the libs for having done nothing on the points you so fervently bring up now?
Today, Trump is merely trying to enforce the law passed by both parties. Enough people voted for him to get this job done.
Ok, you make good points. They why didn't Obama and the democrats, who owned and ruled the entire government for two years (filibuster free), made no changes whatsoever in the current laws? That was in 2009-2010. Why didn't you take them to task then? Why did you and those of your mind acquiesce? Why did you excuse Obama and the libs for having done nothing on the points you so fervently bring up now?
Today, Trump is merely trying to enforce the law passed by both parties. Enough people voted for him to get this job done.
9
I don't think this has anything to do with Trump per se. I remember reading during the Obama years how miffed ICE agents were about not being able to enforce the law as they saw it. Routinely they'd capture an illegal. The illegal would get a fawning piece in the papers and they'd be released. The difference now is that Trump seems to have deferred to agents.
Law enforcement generally leans heavily to the Right and is big on law and order. At any rate I voted for Trump for this very reason. I wish Dems could offer a middle ground but their answer appears to be no enforcement what so ever.
Law enforcement generally leans heavily to the Right and is big on law and order. At any rate I voted for Trump for this very reason. I wish Dems could offer a middle ground but their answer appears to be no enforcement what so ever.
10
The agent who so proudly "got one" should be removed from service. He apparently thinks he is duck hunting.
14
We should all be troubled by the vectors of a getting tough on . When the highest office holder in the country pounds at the most legitimate of the media whenever they are not aggrandizing him as "so called media" or fake news, whenever his public speeches air the most bullying and conflict-laden words, it is not a big leap to believe that those with power down the government food chain will believe they have been granted not just the right to act with impunity but with a tacit understanding that they can simply assert that no such things they might have done actually happened. Alternative facts become truths, fake news becomes what heretofore was a coverup of the real stories, and by repetition upon repetition, so many of our fellow citizens just accept it.
There are so many incredible civil servants who bravely risk their lives to protect and defend us, but there are also some "bad hombres" who wear the same uniforms who seem to be capable of brutal acts and feel justified in committing them. We should not give them a pass, either from the courts or public opinion, to be slaves to their lessor selves.
There are so many incredible civil servants who bravely risk their lives to protect and defend us, but there are also some "bad hombres" who wear the same uniforms who seem to be capable of brutal acts and feel justified in committing them. We should not give them a pass, either from the courts or public opinion, to be slaves to their lessor selves.
10
So Kris Kobach represented the plaintiffs seeking to end Pres. Obama's program deferring deportation of DREAMERS. No doubt he argued that it grossly exceeded Obama's powers, and that any non-enforcement of any immigration statutes violated the president's duty, under Article II of the Constitution, to take care that the laws are faithfully executed. Hey Kris, how bout filing a suit against Pres. Trump,, arguing that his ordering the IRS not to enforce the Obamacare penalty tax (individual mandate) is similarly unconstitutional?
6
That was already being done under Obama (i.e. non-enforcement of penalty tax).
4
What is most disturbing by far is how ICE officers at airports refused to obey judicial injunctions or respond at all to Congressmen who personally traveled to speak with them about their apparent defiance of judicial orders. ICE officers should understand that the borders they defend are the borders of an open, inclusive, democratic society. The United States is not like Hungary - fearful and resentful of others who look a little different or speak a different language.
Imposing an embargo against ourselves -- by overzealous border enforcement that cripples the flow of commerce -- is a self-inflicted shot in the foot.
An armed, defiant corps of officers who defy judicial orders and refuse to answer our democratically elected leaders is worse than meddling with free trade.
At the same time, if ICE performs its mission properly and with dignity, it deserves our full support and respect. It must have the right mission to enforce and then enforce it the same way other departments do -- without any political allegiance or favor.
Imposing an embargo against ourselves -- by overzealous border enforcement that cripples the flow of commerce -- is a self-inflicted shot in the foot.
An armed, defiant corps of officers who defy judicial orders and refuse to answer our democratically elected leaders is worse than meddling with free trade.
At the same time, if ICE performs its mission properly and with dignity, it deserves our full support and respect. It must have the right mission to enforce and then enforce it the same way other departments do -- without any political allegiance or favor.
16
In 1930's Germany, the SS and Gestapo pretty much evolved as murderous governmental groups led by single-minded psychopaths just "doin their jobs."
The real villains are the Republican legislators who are enabling this new American based Royal Family dictatorship.
Gotta wonder if the right wing Supreme Court justices will allow this de facto coup d'etat to continue!
The real villains are the Republican legislators who are enabling this new American based Royal Family dictatorship.
Gotta wonder if the right wing Supreme Court justices will allow this de facto coup d'etat to continue!
9
There's an organization that has been watching the agents for a long time. Don't forget to donate to the ACLU.
11
A question to Ms. Greenhouse and to all of the people commenting herein, if I may.
What is the problem that you have with the enforcement of the legislation duly passed by Congress and signed into law by the President?
Criminal statutes are set to be binary...you are either abiding by the law or you are not. If you are not, the statutes clearly state the sanctions that are to be applied.
In a nation that prides itself on living by the Rule of Law, acceding to behavior that disregards the Rule of Law is a denial of the basic precept.
Unfortunately, much of Ms. Greenhouse's thinking discounts or ignores the basic premise of our system of governance.
What is the problem that you have with the enforcement of the legislation duly passed by Congress and signed into law by the President?
Criminal statutes are set to be binary...you are either abiding by the law or you are not. If you are not, the statutes clearly state the sanctions that are to be applied.
In a nation that prides itself on living by the Rule of Law, acceding to behavior that disregards the Rule of Law is a denial of the basic precept.
Unfortunately, much of Ms. Greenhouse's thinking discounts or ignores the basic premise of our system of governance.
18
Trump cannot deport 11,000,000 people.
He can create a reign of terror such as exists in the comment from Austin, Texas regarding trying to trap parents picking up their children.
Recently in my neck of the woods a town police officer stopped a woman whose parents came from India and who was out for a morning walk without her purse. He asked if she was here legally and wanted proof.
But this is the Trump era. Maybe a few heart-wrenching pictures of parents being torn from their children by ICE agents in black jackets might even penetrate the hearts of Trumpsters.
He can create a reign of terror such as exists in the comment from Austin, Texas regarding trying to trap parents picking up their children.
Recently in my neck of the woods a town police officer stopped a woman whose parents came from India and who was out for a morning walk without her purse. He asked if she was here legally and wanted proof.
But this is the Trump era. Maybe a few heart-wrenching pictures of parents being torn from their children by ICE agents in black jackets might even penetrate the hearts of Trumpsters.
8
I'm guessing there wasn't much competition for the New York Times Supreme Court beat from illegal immigrants through the years. And the gig probably pays well enough that it inoculates one from the corrosive effects on wages, public schools, hospitals, and social services.
But thanks for sharing the view from the elitist tower occupied by everyone at the Times. You folks sure are noble.
But thanks for sharing the view from the elitist tower occupied by everyone at the Times. You folks sure are noble.
22
When the ICE agents refused to attend the program, my first thought was that Pres. Obama had an "Air Traffic Controller moment" that he should have take advantage of and shown them who was boss. However, I didn't know, and still don't know, whether he would had the authority. Guess it doesn't matter now.
4
Lots of illegal immigrants pay voluntarily taxes hoping that it will make it easier for them to be accepted and get the green card.
Does Trump, the legal immigrant from the extreme margin of US society pay taxes? Is it a voluntary?
Does Trump, the legal immigrant from the extreme margin of US society pay taxes? Is it a voluntary?
8
Payment of US taxes (federal, staten and local) is not "voluntary".
not for citizens, not for legal immigrants and other foreigners here earning money legally and not for illegal aliens.
But payment of taxes entitles no one to legal "status" under immigration laws.
They all owe taxes regardless whether they are legal or illegal.
The only thing "voluntary" is that some of them "voluntarily comply",
just like tens of millions of Americans.
However, because their skills are usually low,
their incomes are low,
so the income taxes they pay are meager.
Meanwhile, the government-funded and government-mandated bennies (federal, state and local) soaked up by them and their children and other members or their households far exceeds the meager taxes they pay.
Sure, low income Americans also absorb more bennies than the taxes they pay.
But America can choose to help its own low income citizens without being dragooned into helping whoever jumps the border to come here from the rest of the world.
And America can choose to enforce tax laws on everyone based on their incomes and other economic and commercial activities regardless whether they are citizens, legal immigrants or illegal aliens and without having to bestow legal status under the immigration laws just because "taxes" are paid.
not for citizens, not for legal immigrants and other foreigners here earning money legally and not for illegal aliens.
But payment of taxes entitles no one to legal "status" under immigration laws.
They all owe taxes regardless whether they are legal or illegal.
The only thing "voluntary" is that some of them "voluntarily comply",
just like tens of millions of Americans.
However, because their skills are usually low,
their incomes are low,
so the income taxes they pay are meager.
Meanwhile, the government-funded and government-mandated bennies (federal, state and local) soaked up by them and their children and other members or their households far exceeds the meager taxes they pay.
Sure, low income Americans also absorb more bennies than the taxes they pay.
But America can choose to help its own low income citizens without being dragooned into helping whoever jumps the border to come here from the rest of the world.
And America can choose to enforce tax laws on everyone based on their incomes and other economic and commercial activities regardless whether they are citizens, legal immigrants or illegal aliens and without having to bestow legal status under the immigration laws just because "taxes" are paid.
11
President Trump's mean and vindictive behavior is working its way down in the executive branch of our government. We must resist him and his underlings every way we can. But we Democrats must also come up with positive solutions, very specific ones. They won't pass in this Congress, of course. Nonetheless, it is important that we take the high ground. We must be prepared to take over when more and more of the country rejects Mr. Trump's stupid stuff.
9
In an inflammatory statement posted on the Trump campaign’s website, Chris Crane, president of the union, the National ICE Council, complained that under President Obama, “our officers are prevented from enforcing the most basic immigration laws.” The statement went on to say that while Mr. Trump had pledged in a meeting to “support ICE officers, our nation’s laws and our members,” Hillary Clinton’s immigration plan was “total amnesty plus open borders.” Q1: How is this statement "inflammatory"? Q2: If eleven million emigres attempted to pass through JFK international arrivals without documentation, would they permitted entry?
8
"I’d like to think we’re better than that. A month ago, we were." No we weren't. That kind of sentiment has been prevalent for some time. When Clinton made her now infamous "deplorables" comment, she said commenters like the one quoted were "not America". If you, or she, had lived her life from a different perspective, you would realize that this kind of ugly is and has always been distinctly American.
7
Overlooked in this xenophobic zealotry is that long-resident undocumented immigrants are already interwoven into America's social fabric. The life of every long-resident undocumented immigrant is intertwined with the lives of many dozens of citizens' lives - family, friends, neighbors, co-workers and co-worshippers. To tear at the immigrant, who is hardly any more an immigrant but another resident American, is to tear at them all. Multiply this vindictive havoc by 11-12 million and you have an estimate of the magnitude of the chilling wave of fear, despair and anger the Trump administration and ICE are bent upon sending through American society. If they are allowed to continue unchallenged, no corner of America will be untouched. America and America's image and standing in the world will be changed for generations for the worse.
15
There are sadistic impulses behind a Border Patrol that enjoys deporting a woman who was our decent, law-abiding friend and neighbor for 22 years, that enjoys seeing her in a homeless shelter in Nogales with only the clothing on her back, and her three children rendered motherless.
Sadistic impulses are indulged under the cloak of "enforcing the law." But "the law" could be anything. How about a law the everyone who voted for Trump is branded with the letter "T"? Laws can be unjust, and often they are, and President Obama recognized that, and set deportation enforcement priorities accordingly. Obama was forced to act because Congress failed. Jeff Sessions fought immigration reform in the Senate, and John Boehner didn't even bring it up for a vote in the House.
So now we are left with an unjust law and a Congress that is even more anti-immigrant than ever, Jeff Sessions as Attorney General, and a President who made sadism the centerpiece of his campaign. Immigrants are treated as scapegoats for problems they did not cause. We have vicious, disproportionate and inhumane punishment for violating "the law", even against people who are reporting to ICE, and even against children under DACA. The extent to which this cheers anyone up is equal to the extent to which humanity is barbaric, as the comments here attest.
Sadistic impulses are indulged under the cloak of "enforcing the law." But "the law" could be anything. How about a law the everyone who voted for Trump is branded with the letter "T"? Laws can be unjust, and often they are, and President Obama recognized that, and set deportation enforcement priorities accordingly. Obama was forced to act because Congress failed. Jeff Sessions fought immigration reform in the Senate, and John Boehner didn't even bring it up for a vote in the House.
So now we are left with an unjust law and a Congress that is even more anti-immigrant than ever, Jeff Sessions as Attorney General, and a President who made sadism the centerpiece of his campaign. Immigrants are treated as scapegoats for problems they did not cause. We have vicious, disproportionate and inhumane punishment for violating "the law", even against people who are reporting to ICE, and even against children under DACA. The extent to which this cheers anyone up is equal to the extent to which humanity is barbaric, as the comments here attest.
25
The woman was not decent and law abiding. She crossed the border illegally, and she used a fake SS number to get a job which she had no right to do. Deportation was the right punishment.
15
Allowing someone to stay in the US because they birthed a child in the US, something favored by Clinton and Obama, is worse than an unconditional amnesty. It specifically favors the only large part of the illegal immigrant population that is likely to be a substantial burden on the taxpayer, by collecting benefits like TANF, special education, and bilingual education through their US-citizen children. Any sensible migration policy should eliminate birthright citizenship by freeing newly born children of illegal aliens from US jurisdiction during the first 5 years of their life, while at the same time, offering amnesty to the gainfully employed non-criminals.
14
A new Homeland Security Department report estimates that the Border Patrol catches about 54 percent of those who attempt to cross the border illegally, an estimate much lower than the 81-percent access rate previously claimed by the agency. (Border Patrolmen themselves say they catch about 40 percent of those who trigger sensors as they cross the border.) In 2016, the Border Patrol apprehended 174,923 migrants as they illegally cross the border in 2016. This means about 160,000 illegal border crossers succeeded. Of course, this doesn’t include unauthorized immigrants who enter the country illegally but overstay their visas. The Homeland Security Department estimates that about 416,500 people whose visa expired in 2015 were still in the country in 2016. So, in 2016 the United States absorbed about 650,000 new unauthorized immigrants. In 2016, ICE conducted 65,332 “interior removals” of unauthorized immigrants who had been residing in the United States.
7
There is such brilliance and humanity to a Linda Greenhouse column, I sometimes wonder (foolishly I know) how Aulito, Thomas and Roberts can read her and remain who they are.
12
Because they know that Linda Greenhouse likes to pick and choose which laws to cry about and which should be enforced. We are a nation of laws, Linda, that means when you break the law you get punished. Were you unaware of that principle?
8
I've had professional dealings with ICE agents and attorneys and despite a few bad apples found them to be reasonably competent and humane. I sense that career track coming to an abrupt end with performance reviews based on apprehensions, detentions, and deportations - not whether anything they do makes actual common sense, or makes our communities safer. I fear ICE will reward sick vengeance against the most vulnerable.
Congress needs to get off its rump and deal with the long festering problem of immigration reform. Maybe that can happen when American voters with common sense kick the do-nothings to the curb in 2018. I hope the country lasts that long.
Congress needs to get off its rump and deal with the long festering problem of immigration reform. Maybe that can happen when American voters with common sense kick the do-nothings to the curb in 2018. I hope the country lasts that long.
16
If ICE wants a "target rich environment," what is better than the planting fields of California's Central Valley, where 70% of field hands are illegal immigrants, and the people who employ them at a putative risk of a fine of $10,000 per head are Trump voting Republicans? Thousands of illegal immigrants pick the foods that end up on our tables.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/09/us/california-farmers-backed-trump-bu...
When lettuce goes to $15/head and strawberries $10/pint, the folly of the notion would be exposed.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/09/us/california-farmers-backed-trump-bu...
When lettuce goes to $15/head and strawberries $10/pint, the folly of the notion would be exposed.
32
Lettuce will not go up to $15/ head or strawberries to $10/pint.
Far from it.
Field wages can be raised to attract Americans and legal immigrants.
But raising field wages -- even doubling or even tripling field wages --
will not double or triple the retail price of the produce.
Far from it.
Far more than field wages make up the retail price of the produce --
the cost of land, water, irrigation pumps and other equipment, equipment to till the land, pesticides and fertilizer, facilities and equipment for storage and refrigeration, transportation to market, fuel and electricity for all that equipment, wholesale distribution costs,, etc.
Far from it.
Field wages can be raised to attract Americans and legal immigrants.
But raising field wages -- even doubling or even tripling field wages --
will not double or triple the retail price of the produce.
Far from it.
Far more than field wages make up the retail price of the produce --
the cost of land, water, irrigation pumps and other equipment, equipment to till the land, pesticides and fertilizer, facilities and equipment for storage and refrigeration, transportation to market, fuel and electricity for all that equipment, wholesale distribution costs,, etc.
5
'we're better than that....' ranks with it's 'unamerican'..
when does the penny drop and it registers that it's as american as mass shootings?
when does the penny drop and it registers that it's as american as mass shootings?
5
I am amazed that these federal employees have been allowed to thumb their noses at President Obama and publicly endorse the First Bigot with no disciplinary action--unionized or not. Let's rename these rogues SS.
9
Yes! The heck with that pesky First Amendment!
4
Federal employees are prohibited from engaging in political activity under the Hatch Act and several statutes in Title 5 of the United States Code. These racist storm troopers are violating various laws and regulations, and if they want to be zealots they can resign.
2
Quiz custodiet indeed. The police unions also supported Trump. The FBI rank and file forced Comey to do that disgraceful dog and pony show last fall.
Most frightening, 60 percent of the military supported him. Article I courts already control the fate of immigrants. Don't be the least bit surprised if an executive order sets up Article I courts to bring the rest of us to heel.
Most frightening, 60 percent of the military supported him. Article I courts already control the fate of immigrants. Don't be the least bit surprised if an executive order sets up Article I courts to bring the rest of us to heel.
10
I fear there is no chance of a guard for the guardians. It seems that in our system, what really matters, is which party controls what. If one party controls two of the three branches of government, checks and balances are hard to come by. These ICE people may be beneath contempt for some of us, but then so are the Democrats. What's all this about "we're better than this"? How can you tell?
1
Simply stated, President Trump's goal is to transform our totally DISFUNCTIONAL, "Helter-Skelter" immigration system into something that is orderly, fair, efficient and impartial within the framework of the law. This is, in fact, one of the main reasons why he won the Presidency by an overwhelming Electoral College majority. Is this goal attainable? Yes, of course it is! The only obstacle to us accomplishing that goal is our total lack of political will.
In light of the MILLIONS of illegal aliens (euphemistically, "undocumented immigrants") living in this country, Trump is focusing not on ALL illegals (something which has mushroomed into an incredibly complex problem over the years), but only on those who have committed crimes and other repeat offenders. So, from a practical standpoint, the MILLIONS of illegals who have not committed a crime (other than breaking our immigration laws in the first place) would be left alone. HOWEVER, from this point on, anyone entering this country would have to do so LEGALLY so as not to further compound an already out-of-control problem.
In the wake of DT's unforeseen victory, the DEMS have shown their true, insidious colors. What they really want are OPEN BORDERS, plain & simple. Everything else is just political posturing and rhetoric.
In light of the MILLIONS of illegal aliens (euphemistically, "undocumented immigrants") living in this country, Trump is focusing not on ALL illegals (something which has mushroomed into an incredibly complex problem over the years), but only on those who have committed crimes and other repeat offenders. So, from a practical standpoint, the MILLIONS of illegals who have not committed a crime (other than breaking our immigration laws in the first place) would be left alone. HOWEVER, from this point on, anyone entering this country would have to do so LEGALLY so as not to further compound an already out-of-control problem.
In the wake of DT's unforeseen victory, the DEMS have shown their true, insidious colors. What they really want are OPEN BORDERS, plain & simple. Everything else is just political posturing and rhetoric.
6
Fifty years from now, historians will judge this period in our history among one of the darkest of all.
17
ICE has no heart. Zero, none, zilch. You will not succeed in this world, long term, without a heart. You will only create further divides.
7
@kwb, people who come into the country legally and overstay their visas have committed no crime. And even if presence in the country without a valid visa were a crime, that does not make the people themselves "illegal," any more than refusing to file tax returns (which actually is a crime) would make me an "illegal American."
The term "undocumented" is accurate. "Illegal" is not.
The authoritarians and the right-wingers have a fetish for getting "tough," which is a thinly disguised term for "sadistic." So if we're bandying about terminology, let's start talking about Trump's sadistic policies toward undocumented aliens -- many of whom grew up here and know no other country.
The term "undocumented" is accurate. "Illegal" is not.
The authoritarians and the right-wingers have a fetish for getting "tough," which is a thinly disguised term for "sadistic." So if we're bandying about terminology, let's start talking about Trump's sadistic policies toward undocumented aliens -- many of whom grew up here and know no other country.
7
8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien
Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both. Illegal entry is a felony.
Illegal immigrants who work without authorization in the United States are committing a felony. 18 USC Sec. 1015 states “Whoever knowingly makes any false statement or claim that he is, or at any time has been, a citizen or national of the United States, with the intent to obtain on behalf of himself, or any other person, any Federal or State benefit or service, or to engage unlawfully in employment in the United States” shall or imprisoned not more than five years.
Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both. Illegal entry is a felony.
Illegal immigrants who work without authorization in the United States are committing a felony. 18 USC Sec. 1015 states “Whoever knowingly makes any false statement or claim that he is, or at any time has been, a citizen or national of the United States, with the intent to obtain on behalf of himself, or any other person, any Federal or State benefit or service, or to engage unlawfully in employment in the United States” shall or imprisoned not more than five years.
7
Very true.
And the folks on the FBI's Ten Most Wanted list are not illegal either. Just their actions. So what?
And the folks on the FBI's Ten Most Wanted list are not illegal either. Just their actions. So what?
1
Sure,
"undocumented",
just like a quack -- i.e. a duck and not a doc -- is "undocumented",
no pretty "paper" -- i.e. no medical license -- to hang on the wall,
and therefore practicing medicine illegally,
precisely because he does not have the authorization and qualifications
signified by the pretty paper.
"undocumented",
just like a quack -- i.e. a duck and not a doc -- is "undocumented",
no pretty "paper" -- i.e. no medical license -- to hang on the wall,
and therefore practicing medicine illegally,
precisely because he does not have the authorization and qualifications
signified by the pretty paper.
1
Linda Greenhouse knows her assertion that “the Obama administration deported more than 400,000 unauthorized immigrants a year” is a lie. ICE removed 409,849 unauthorized immigrants in 2012, but removals declined sharply during President Obama last term in office. (ICE uses the term “removal” rather than “deportations” because most removals are of individuals caught while trying to enter the country illegally. Only a small percent of removals are of unauthorized immigrants residing in the United States.) In 2016, ICE conducted 240,255 removals, but only 65,332 of these were “interior removals” of individuals residing unlawfully in the United States. The 65,332 interior removals amounted to about 0.06 percent of the approximately 11.5 million illegal immigrants living in the United States. The other 174,923 removals were of individuals apprehended at or near the border or ports of entry
https://www.ice.gov/removal-statistics/2016
https://www.ice.gov/removal-statistics/2016
13
When will we get a reign on the paramilitary largely extrajudicial forces that we've contracted out to handle what are largely social and economic issues?
3
When employers pay Americans a fair wage instead of relying on imported scab labor to undermine the legitimate labor pool.
4
Why do that now? Did you have the same concerns over the last eight years?
2
While I support controlled immigration generally and found Trump's temporary travel ban from the seven countries poorly conceived and handled, I think there is an undue amount of noise, even hysteria, about current policy.
In 2013, President Obama deported 434,000 illegal aliens and while he claimed they were threats to our safety--"gang banger and the like"--only 59% had committed a crime. (Look here http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/03/18/in-2013-59-of-deported-i.... This was the highest number in history and subsequent years were nearly as high. Last week Trump's ICE deported 680 people, of whom 75% had criminal records. Where was the outrage in prior years?
Columnists are free to hate Trump, of course, but should be consistent in their positions.
In 2013, President Obama deported 434,000 illegal aliens and while he claimed they were threats to our safety--"gang banger and the like"--only 59% had committed a crime. (Look here http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/03/18/in-2013-59-of-deported-i.... This was the highest number in history and subsequent years were nearly as high. Last week Trump's ICE deported 680 people, of whom 75% had criminal records. Where was the outrage in prior years?
Columnists are free to hate Trump, of course, but should be consistent in their positions.
6
They ARE consistent: Democrats, good; Republicans, bad.
5
We had better be very careful about our Border Patrol, and especially cautious about giving them more agents and more money. They are a massive armed force within our borders, they are extra-judicial in many ways and they are solely in the pocket of a crazy man.
25
Finally, a feel-good story about illegal aliens.
The most sensible thing to do is to immediately expel all illegal aliens from our country. It just makes good sense.
The most sensible thing to do is to immediately expel all illegal aliens from our country. It just makes good sense.
9
It's disgusting what is going on. Our current leaders lack morals and a basic sense of decency. That some Americans find it acceptable is astounding. We have become the equivalent of Nazi Germany and those goose stepping along have completely forgotten how it all ends.
21
You're referring to Obama's immigration policies which for the most part are still in place, right?
7
Nazi Germany?!! Are you so deluded and History blank that you don't realize what you're saying? Where are the parallels? Are people targeting illegals in some way not apparent to the rest of us? No, not even close. Go to Chicago, New York City, LA, Miami, Houston, San Francisco or Seattle. 12 to 20 millions of them and some parts of America unrecognizable as such. Or are you afraid of missing ethic food without travelling? Keep up the moral indignation though, it is what we need to completely break the Country over people who don't belong here. They are more important to you than your fellow citizens who have paid for all of it for the last 30 years.
11
The author "gets" that many others do not share her views. Her response is that she would "like to think we’re better than that." in other words, if you persist in disagreeing with me, it's because I am better than you.
Can there be a clearer illustration of the current penchant to see any opposition as rooted in the personal deficiencies of one's opponents? And what point, then, is there in any discussion?
Can there be a clearer illustration of the current penchant to see any opposition as rooted in the personal deficiencies of one's opponents? And what point, then, is there in any discussion?
26
Just wait until ICE and local police start knocking on doors in the middle of the night and rounding up "political undesirables". But then it's already too late.
By that time Trump Inc will own America and the new Trumpocracy will begin---
government of the Trump, by the Trump and only for the Trump. Good luck on anything approaching democracy then. I always wondered why Trump admired Putin so much. Then we'll know all too well why.
By that time Trump Inc will own America and the new Trumpocracy will begin---
government of the Trump, by the Trump and only for the Trump. Good luck on anything approaching democracy then. I always wondered why Trump admired Putin so much. Then we'll know all too well why.
2
Dear Linda, People who with intention break our laws have NO dignity. I am amazed that you, of all people, take offense at federal employees who want to do the jobs that they are paid to do. Is it your opinion that they should go on a permanent "siesta"? The law is the law, and it will be so until our representatives vote to change it.
5
An armed quasi-military organization loyal to a political leader rather than to constutional norms and restraints----when have we seen that before?
4
Entering the US illegally is and always was a very poor idea. Those so tempted would be wise not to do it.
5
Was this wonderment a concern of yours during the administration that allowed unfettered, multiple entry of illegals? Did you wonder about border practices when the previous administration ran a sting that permitted automatic and sophisticated weaponry to wind up in the hands of mexican drug cartels? Did you care one whit that corrupt border cops were taking payments from human smugglers? The answers of course being "NO", render your thesis absurd, if not another flagrant example of selective outrage - an endemic liberal condition.
6
I believe it is important to support the brave women and men of our border patrols, they are the front line of our domestic security.
This article raises multiple interesting points.
1. Obama was in fact the deporter in chief with over 2.5 million deportees
2. In 2008 Guadalupe García de Rayos was convicted of false impersonation and illegally obtaining a social security card
3. Obviously the Border Agent should have been better trained under the Obama administration. Budgets have since been increased.
Socrates said that the best person "has a divine ruler within himself," and that "it is better for everyone to be ruled by divine reason, preferably within himself and his own, otherwise imposed from without."[9]
This article raises multiple interesting points.
1. Obama was in fact the deporter in chief with over 2.5 million deportees
2. In 2008 Guadalupe García de Rayos was convicted of false impersonation and illegally obtaining a social security card
3. Obviously the Border Agent should have been better trained under the Obama administration. Budgets have since been increased.
Socrates said that the best person "has a divine ruler within himself," and that "it is better for everyone to be ruled by divine reason, preferably within himself and his own, otherwise imposed from without."[9]
4
I’m guessing the fact that the “raids” under Trump are the same as under Obama escaped the author. Why let the facts get in the way of a perfecctly good bout of hysteria?
7
"Not everyone shares that view. I get that, and I’m reminded of it every time I write about immigration. Reader comments on articles about immigration, including the gripping one last week about Guadalupe García de Rayos, the Phoenix woman and mother of two American children who was abruptly deported when she dutifully showed up for her routine check-in at the local ICE office, run to “if she wasn’t illegal in the first place, she wouldn’t have been deported.”
Right. I’d like to think we’re better than that. A month ago, we were."
Better than....what? Better than having immigration laws at all?
If you are against the enforcement of immigration laws, then why have a border at all? What's the point?
If you believe in open borders, fine. Make your case. Do not, however, try to hide behind an argument that claims on the one hand to believe in the validity of national borders, but on the other hand demands that those borders not be enforced.
Right. I’d like to think we’re better than that. A month ago, we were."
Better than....what? Better than having immigration laws at all?
If you are against the enforcement of immigration laws, then why have a border at all? What's the point?
If you believe in open borders, fine. Make your case. Do not, however, try to hide behind an argument that claims on the one hand to believe in the validity of national borders, but on the other hand demands that those borders not be enforced.
6
America has lost its soul......
5
Not "undocumented." Illegal!
7
Crane assumes a Republican Congress under Trump will allocate more funding to hire more border guards, increasing his union membership and ultimately his bottom line. Money is ALWAYS the bottom line.
1
This reminds me of the shootings at the east/west border in Germany... With the USA as the Stazi.
--John 02/16/17 - 8:06AM
--John 02/16/17 - 8:06AM
3
With the difference, of course, of shooting people trying to ENTER the country as opposed to leaving it.
2
You hit the nail on the head: "I thought we were better than that." We're not. Whatever America might have been, it no longer is, effective January 2017. Officially......morally........bankrupt. Period. Not Trump. Not ICE. Not those who voted for Trump. The United States. Done. Finished.
2
I am a huge supporter of law enforcement, and feel that they have been generally ill treated by the people and the press over the past few years. This changes everything.
5
Meantime, at the US-Canadian border:
Donald Trump’s Backers at Border Protection
http://www.newyorker.com/news/benjamin-wallace-wells/donald-trumps-backe...
Then there is the Department of Homeland Security TV Commercial, 'America's Frontline'. Viewers might find it a bit, uh, militant?
https://www.ispot.tv/ad/Ac88/department-of-homeland-security-americas-fr...
Donald Trump’s Backers at Border Protection
http://www.newyorker.com/news/benjamin-wallace-wells/donald-trumps-backe...
Then there is the Department of Homeland Security TV Commercial, 'America's Frontline'. Viewers might find it a bit, uh, militant?
https://www.ispot.tv/ad/Ac88/department-of-homeland-security-americas-fr...
"This case raises important questions about the extraterritorial reach both of the Constitution and the damages remedy that is available..." It also raises important questions about the extraterritorial reach of the government agents who shoot unarmed kids across the border.
4
Law enforcement careers draw all kinds of people. Some want to help others and a few want to exert power over others. In my experience, ICE has a higher proportion of those who want to exert power than other law enforcement agencies, perhaps because their authority is less constrained. In the few dealing that I have had with ICE as an American citizen in Texas, including a stop at an interior checkpoint with our German exchange student and a stop of my son at a checkpoint, the agents were bullies. Since our President is also a bully, I suppose the courts will be the only constraint on the agency.
9
"Rather, the statement is evidence of how openly these law enforcement officers have been chafing at the bit to do their jobs as they please." That is the critical statement as it illustrates the both type of person who volunteers to join ICE, as well as what I call the "ideology of erasure" in which right wing forces are rewriting history and will eventually deny that Barack Obama was ever president. You think that is overwrought hyperbole? Wait another couple of Republican presidencies and watch what happens. There are far too many people trying to make America smaller, meaner, whiter, dirtier, more insular and parochial, and less successful as a nation and it looks as if they will have at least four years to do their dirty work.
5
High on the Democratic agenda must be a thorough housecleaning of ICE and CBP, who have demonstrated their contempt for any branch of government that doesn't agree with their narrow and cruel interpretation of the law. Their jaw-droppingly insubordinate endorsements of Trump brings the crisis into focus. CBP right now has a statement on their official government website defending Trump/Bannon's EO that several courts have strongly suggested is unconstitutional. CBP agents defied those judicial orders and even now may be skirting open defiance of them.
There is much news in Washington, but the willful abuse of vulnerable individuals by federal law enforcement agents deserves more attention from the NY Times and other credible news outlets.
There is much news in Washington, but the willful abuse of vulnerable individuals by federal law enforcement agents deserves more attention from the NY Times and other credible news outlets.
9
A fine line indeed, but I think we've crossed that line a while ago.
Take a cue from police departments across the country - not just on the border. They are using military grade weaponry and defensive and offensive tactics designed for military. I suspect there are complex reasons for that. But, law enforcement is deeply suspicious, and views about everyone not fitting their narrow profile - as potentially dangerous. Plenty of evidence to support this disconcerting inference. Again, complex forces at work.
What are you expecting from border agents? There are deadly threats (I saw Breaking Bad and Sicario). What do you expect law enforcement to do when: (a) no one is watching, (b) they have big weapons and itchy fingers, (c) there are real threats, and (d) less than 100% accountability?
These troubling questions will come to a head if we foster "law enforcement as an institution" in the same way as third world dictatorships do. I.e., to view everyone as a potential threat, terrorize everyone to keep them in line.
We are not there yet, but we may well be on the way. Are we attracting the best and the brightest to the hallowed institutions of law enforcement? Are we constantly working on the organization (structure, systems, and processes that produce transparency and accountability, and still get things done).
How on earth would the ordinary citizenry know the answers to these questions?
I suspect the answers are inconvenient too.
Kalidan
Take a cue from police departments across the country - not just on the border. They are using military grade weaponry and defensive and offensive tactics designed for military. I suspect there are complex reasons for that. But, law enforcement is deeply suspicious, and views about everyone not fitting their narrow profile - as potentially dangerous. Plenty of evidence to support this disconcerting inference. Again, complex forces at work.
What are you expecting from border agents? There are deadly threats (I saw Breaking Bad and Sicario). What do you expect law enforcement to do when: (a) no one is watching, (b) they have big weapons and itchy fingers, (c) there are real threats, and (d) less than 100% accountability?
These troubling questions will come to a head if we foster "law enforcement as an institution" in the same way as third world dictatorships do. I.e., to view everyone as a potential threat, terrorize everyone to keep them in line.
We are not there yet, but we may well be on the way. Are we attracting the best and the brightest to the hallowed institutions of law enforcement? Are we constantly working on the organization (structure, systems, and processes that produce transparency and accountability, and still get things done).
How on earth would the ordinary citizenry know the answers to these questions?
I suspect the answers are inconvenient too.
Kalidan
5
A typically astute column by Linda Greenhouse. I did a book of photographs about the border at Tijuana in 1997 and was struck by the overall professionalism of the agents. Since then there has been a huge increase in hiring- $123 billion on the Southern border since 2005 and they are not getting the same caliber of people. In Canada there is about to be a step up in the powers of border agents here doing preclearance at airports. There have been stories of passengers being asked what they think of Donald Trump. If asked, I shall quote Mao's response when asked what he thought of the French Revolution --"it's too early to tell." It is definitely going to be Trump Time at the border.
2
Nice try, but citing a single possibly abusive case of immigration enforcement is not going to garner you any sympathy. Americans have little patience for those that openly flaunt the law. When the illegals are rounded up and have all been sent home, then we will be happy to discuss a more sensible method of legal immigration for guest workers. Until then, better run to the border or hide.
10
I worked at the TSA for years right after the DHS was created in 2002. The nastiest, dumbest, most uninformed people I encountered in that role were border control employees. I'd stess that they were more stupid than mean but that isn't true. They were uniformly thuggish and woefully ignorant. If they had not landed that job they'd most likely be: 1. Prison 2. Prison guards, 3. Unemployable.
15
To a certain extent, ya can't help what kinds of people different jobs attract, but you can sure screen intensely not to let not just anyone attracted to those jobs get them.
It is horrifying to read of immigration officials referring to American cities as "target-rich environments," as though they are in a war against our country and the residents they are targeting are enemy combatants, not ordinary people living and working here. Earlier this month, as I watched on TV the scenes at the airports, where armed officers blocked lawyers and congressmen from seeing detainees in defiance of court orders, I had the uncomfortable feeling that ICE was acting as some sort of personal militia for Donald Trump. Their actions since then, and the statements in this article, have made me even more fearful that this is true. How long will it be before these modern brown shirts decide to expand their operation beyond seizing the undocumented? And, as Ms. Greenhouse asks, who will stop them?
5
It's a simple progression to go from the concept that law enforcement is always doing the right thing to the belief that ICE is simply enforcing the law.
There has to be a resolution to the immigration issue that creates policies to deal humanely with people who came long ago, who have families who are US citizens, who live peacefully, work and pay taxes, and who no longer have ties to their original "homeland."
The world has recoiled at the image of millions of refugees from the Middle East. What will the images of the millions of people being deported from the US look like?
There has to be a resolution to the immigration issue that creates policies to deal humanely with people who came long ago, who have families who are US citizens, who live peacefully, work and pay taxes, and who no longer have ties to their original "homeland."
The world has recoiled at the image of millions of refugees from the Middle East. What will the images of the millions of people being deported from the US look like?
4
There is an interesting comparison here with how employees at the EPA, IRS, and some other government agencies feel under Trump. Just as Border Patrol agents felt they were prevented from enforcing the law, EPA employees will feel similarly under Trump. Ms. Greenhouse thinks Border Patrol agents are heavy handed in their enforcement of the law, while EPA opponents think the EPA is heavy handed in describing any sometimes damp soil as a "protected wetland" and levying fines and enforcement actions against farmers and landowners. And without the Obama Justice Department to protect them, IRS employees might actually be disciplined for targeting conservative groups.
So what concerns Ms. Greenhouse regarding the Border Patrol has, for quite some time, concerned conservatives regarding much of the liberal government bureaucracy.
So what concerns Ms. Greenhouse regarding the Border Patrol has, for quite some time, concerned conservatives regarding much of the liberal government bureaucracy.
5
The question is not "Who will guard the guardians?". We know the answer: those persons and organizations charged with doing so, including agency internal affairs offices, the DHS Inspector General's office, relevant congressional oversight committees and, ultimately, U.S. citizens. No, the more proper question is to what standard are the "guardians" to be held? Applicable laws, policies, procedures and directives are published and reasonably obtainable. If CBP and ICE officers and agents are acting contrary to published guidance they should be held accountable. A "wink-and-a-nod" tacit understanding and approval by authorized officials, let alone by unauthorized union officers, cannot be tolerated. That way lies widespread but locally sanctioned vigilantism.
5
Trump told us that he was going to deport only the "bad hombres" who had violated criminal laws. So it turns out that this includes undocumented people whose "crime" was using a fictitious Social Security number to get a job to support their family and pay taxes. This is a disgusting display of autocratic inhumanity. Where will it stop? By definition, anyone who resides and works in our country -- even for decades -- without a green card or other visa is a criminal. This will stop only when Republican owners of companies and farms realize that they will have no one to do the dirty, dangerous and painful labor they need which American citizens don't want to do.
9
You can't just get a new SSN, you know. It ruins your life. Yes, deport for the crime of fictitious SSN; deter those who would try to fake one.
1
As far as stealing a SS number. These people will never see one penny of the tax money taken out. One penny of the taxes they pay, no refunds, can't file, it is on someone else's record. They may get higher SS payments because the amounts on their records for each quarter will be higher with the added work of the immigrant. They lose nothing. Probably gain, in bigger refunds. How many of them, go to the government and say someone is putting money in my SS tax fund, my wages collected for taxes, so I'm getting a bigger refund? None I bet, just shhhhhh, and take it.
1
A slippery slope here. It is clear (at least to me) that our immigration policy needs to be overhauled, and that need is being confounded by partisanship. The left shows us a continuing stream of cases where an obvious lack of compassion and good judgement have led to unfortunate results. The right cherry-picks cases of obvious criminality and defiance to illustrate the need for a hard-line policy. The euphemism "undocumented," is a trigger to law-and-order types – probably rightly so. Yet we are shown many examples of hard-working, productive people who have built a good, law-abiding life despite their illegal status. For most crimes there is a statute of limitations, why not for illegal entry? Even in feudal times, a vassal who fled his indenture and managed to remain at liberty for a year and a day was declared free. Could we not enact similar legislation to offer a path to citizenship for those who have established themselves in ways that are otherwise legitimate? I realize that those who have taken the official path to immigration might understandably be affronted by this suggestion, but sometimes a middle path is the way to agreeable settlement. Enforcement, I agree, needs to be strict, but also humane. Perhaps the best thing we can do as human beings is to protect each others' dignity – something mandated by no law, but impelled by an awakened conscience.
4
Burned by Reagan's amnesty. Let's see enforcement, particularly of employers, before any amnesty at all. H1B and farm worker visa programs are abused by employers and middle men companies too; crack down hard on them, and we'll believe you're serious about solutions.
3
People who want all immigrants out (but you should read that as all brown immigrants out, no one wants to deport the Irish, who per capita, have more illegals coming here in a year than any other country), saying all illegals are "criminals". That is saying that someone, one of those high and mighty' perhaps) who gets stopped for speeding, should be executed, or put in prison, for life. For all criminal enterprises deserve the exact same punishment. If that is true, then we can work it the other way. All murderers should be set free, new ones should never get more than the least punishment for the least crime on the books.
1
It makes my blood boil every time I’m confronted with the attitudes so many people who call themselves “true Americans” have toward undocumented immigrants and migrants. Here are people risking their lives to come here, to do the work that no one else seems to want to do for near-slave wages and with no legal protections. Farmers have had to let strawberries rot in the fields when harsh policies meant there was no one available for the harvest. Why are we not rewarding people who are doing the hardest of jobs with citizenship, or at the very least legal permits to stay here? Why are we stigmatizing an entire group of decent people by hypocritically insisting that what they do for this country is a crime? Why are we literally alienating children, who will someday grow up to remember? Is it all to trap them in a hopeless situation, so they can continue to work for us in near slave-like conditions?
12
As for the question posed at the end of the article, in the somewhat lightweight movie "Enemy of the State," that question was posed in relation to electronic surveillance, "who's going to monitor the monitors?" As Edward Snowden's revelations showed, nobody will monitor the monitors unless it's someone willing to risk prison or exile. On immigration, that question was "asked an answered" during the election campaign. Substitute the word "Jew" for "immigrant" in any number of Trump's speeches and those speeches were (are?) straight out of Göring's playbook, or is it vice versa?
And Ms. Greenhouse writes "This case raises important questions about the extraterritorial reach both of the Constitution and the damages remedy that is available to United States citizens whose constitutional rights are violated on American soil by a federal official." Reading this makes me wonder why this question isn't posed when the US "drones" people in foreign countries, "drones" being a euphemism for assassinates. Or when the US sends agents into another country to kidnap someone, aka "bring them to justice." And that begs the question of the invasion of other countries...such as Iraq for those too young to remember Vietnam.
I know, this column is supposed to be about the Constitution. But as was often heard on Law & Order, "you put it on the street, counselor."
And Ms. Greenhouse writes "This case raises important questions about the extraterritorial reach both of the Constitution and the damages remedy that is available to United States citizens whose constitutional rights are violated on American soil by a federal official." Reading this makes me wonder why this question isn't posed when the US "drones" people in foreign countries, "drones" being a euphemism for assassinates. Or when the US sends agents into another country to kidnap someone, aka "bring them to justice." And that begs the question of the invasion of other countries...such as Iraq for those too young to remember Vietnam.
I know, this column is supposed to be about the Constitution. But as was often heard on Law & Order, "you put it on the street, counselor."
4
Just keep telling those with last names not British, that they will never truly be Americans, no matter how many centuries they live here. That we the "true" Americans should make sure they don't "steal" the jobs from us "real" Americans, no matter what the job is. Even ones they would never do, even to keep their kids from starving.
Maybe, just maybe, after constant repeating, it might just get through their very thick skulls and they would see what they are doing. I doubt it. Their skulls are so thick that there isn't much room for brain in there. But, it is worth a try.
Maybe, just maybe, after constant repeating, it might just get through their very thick skulls and they would see what they are doing. I doubt it. Their skulls are so thick that there isn't much room for brain in there. But, it is worth a try.
3
I welcome the increased enforcement, and hope that the pace picks up. There is no reason to allow illegals to remain here. They drive up rents. They steal jobs. They make schools function less well, and require extra services that non-illegals must pay for. And the most annoying thing is the "normalization of deviance". I am expected to apologize for my requirement that the law be adhered to. I'm tired of that. More enforcement!! More deportations!! Keep 'em going.
13
"...They drive up rents..."
They build and maintain the rental properties, and are a big source of profit for property owners.
"... They steal jobs..."
Right. Deport a few million orange pickers and motel maids, and the auto workers will get their $80,000 a year jobs back,
"... They make schools function less well,.."
Most of the kids are US citizens. Sorry if they are the wrong color for you.
They build and maintain the rental properties, and are a big source of profit for property owners.
"... They steal jobs..."
Right. Deport a few million orange pickers and motel maids, and the auto workers will get their $80,000 a year jobs back,
"... They make schools function less well,.."
Most of the kids are US citizens. Sorry if they are the wrong color for you.
4
I have a perfect job for your kid. Lifetime, no quitting ever. It's cleaning public toilets 7 days a week 12 hours a day for 1/200th of minimum wage. Which if congress gets it's way will be about 1 cent a week soon. Every citizen will have to take one child out of school at age 8 and give them to the government to do the jobs the immigrants used to do. They will be working in those places until they die. We wouldn't want you to have to give up your cushy job and do this would you? Now I doubt you would like that. One kid who no matter how bright would never be a fully educated, having a good job, adult. Always looked at as a menial, stupid, to be disrespected, mongrel. No matter your ethnicity. To be kicked out of the way at any time, by anyone. He will live in dormitories, and after puberty, be castrated. If any girls are given over, they will be sterilized before puberty. Decent Americans wouldn't want these low class, stupid, untouchables to breed now would we? If you ever get in trouble with the law, which would almost absolutely happen, as your username is not an American name, so you would be watched carefully, as an immigrant, always. If that happened, your children would all be taken for the "immigrant job" program, so none would ever breed. Just looking at things from you perspective. Get rid of all immigrants. Starting with those who have "funny" last names.
1
Meanwhile, POed, do be prepared to pay higher taxes if you get your wish for more deportations.
For example, here in Arizona where I live there are an estimated 264,000 hard-working, honorable, undocumented persons that have contributed a quarter of a billion dollars in local, state and Federal taxes.
Who knows? Some of them might even be my neighbors!
But sending them back will, P0ed, guarantee your being slapped with a much higher tax bill than you currently have.
For example, here in Arizona where I live there are an estimated 264,000 hard-working, honorable, undocumented persons that have contributed a quarter of a billion dollars in local, state and Federal taxes.
Who knows? Some of them might even be my neighbors!
But sending them back will, P0ed, guarantee your being slapped with a much higher tax bill than you currently have.
3
Every nation has a right to control its borders. If someone is in the country illegally they should be removed. Lumping in the murder of a young boy with the legal enforcement of the law does little to advance the argument for less enforcement. The other law that needs to be enforced, is the one for employers who employ illegals and abuse H1B and other visa programs to employ cheap labor. Most Americans have nothing against legal immigration, but for those of us who came here legally, we do resent the people who came here illegally and feel they have a right to skip the line just because they are here. If people are worried about their families being broken up, they are welcome to take their children back to their countries of origin and start the legal process to emigrate.
17
Mesa should be tried, found guilty of 1st degree capital murder, taken to the spot where he shot across the border, hung on the fence with barbed wire around his neck and left to slowly choke to death. A picture of him should be posted in every immigration office, barracks, and holding office. To remind officers that this WILL be their fate if they do something as horrible as that. Done right it should take him several days to die. Anyway, how did a man, with a Mexican name get a job in immigration. He is obviously an illegal immigrant, a criminal, who should be deported (not extradited) to his "home" country immediately. Then the Mexican government can handle their "national" any way they choose. Only people with names like Smith, Jones, Wells, Churchill, typical American last names should be allowed to have jobs of any job of any responsibility. Every other person with "different" "other" names should have to spend 20 years being extremely vetted before they can do more than menial, manual labor, or go to any after high school education. Vetting can not begin until the immigrant is at least 20. They must "prove" they are 1. American citizens, have no ties to anyone out side of this country, or any ties to anyone who has ties outside this country (including friends and neighbors), have grades in high school in the top 1%, and have found a "decent" American to marry, who has a "decent name", they will have to take this person's last name. All foreign names must be erased.
1
I don’t doubt that those who will be watching the agents watching our borders will continue to include the New York Times and Linda Greenhouse. And that’s appropriate and necessary. A people that presumes to govern itself through elected representatives has nobody to blame but themselves if their society succumbs to tyranny through a failure to keep cops honest.
It was inevitable that a conviction brewing for years among the hard-left that America has an obligation to support “open borders”, in violation of our laws, and millions of people fleeing unsuccessful societies seeking economic sufficiency here at whatever cost to our own culture and the prosperity of our own workers … would ignite the resistance it has. And it’s inevitable that implementation of a policy preference by JUST enough Americans in JUST the right states will sometimes be excessive, as enforcement actions usually are to one degree or another.
Fairly, in part due to personal conviction but also due to public pressure, Trump appears to have backed off on deportation of DACA youths. Continued pressure should have salutary effects on treatment of illegals generally. The Times and Linda can rightfully claim credit for that.
However, it remains that Trump was elected in part to re-secure our borders and again make meaningful our laws; and he means to do just that. If the left wants to change those laws, it needs to co-opt the votes of a lot more Americans than their arguments so far have been able to do.
It was inevitable that a conviction brewing for years among the hard-left that America has an obligation to support “open borders”, in violation of our laws, and millions of people fleeing unsuccessful societies seeking economic sufficiency here at whatever cost to our own culture and the prosperity of our own workers … would ignite the resistance it has. And it’s inevitable that implementation of a policy preference by JUST enough Americans in JUST the right states will sometimes be excessive, as enforcement actions usually are to one degree or another.
Fairly, in part due to personal conviction but also due to public pressure, Trump appears to have backed off on deportation of DACA youths. Continued pressure should have salutary effects on treatment of illegals generally. The Times and Linda can rightfully claim credit for that.
However, it remains that Trump was elected in part to re-secure our borders and again make meaningful our laws; and he means to do just that. If the left wants to change those laws, it needs to co-opt the votes of a lot more Americans than their arguments so far have been able to do.
6
It's all coming fast and furiously, and it is more than a bit too much for this sixty-something year old. Financial and environmental deregulation, border walls, implementation of a national "religion", destruction of decades-old foreign policies in less than a month, a return to favoring climate destroying fossil fuels and a turn away from renewable energy sources - the list goes on and on. This nation, in the hands of a self-absorbed demagogue installed by an angry mob of voters and "advised" by extremists (and, quite possibly, controlled by a foreign adversary), is in the process of devolving, going backward in time even as many other nations advance. Never in my wildest nightmare did I ever expect to live to see this. I am ashamed for my country, I fear for the future, and, for the first time in my life, I pity the young.
269
I remember many incidents reported during WWII when I was a child in Canada.
I am convinced that President Johnson had the best plan for solving the so-called illegal problem.
He simply provided the means for immigrants to become legal citizens of the United States of America.
Every Human being belongs on this Earth of ours. if people don't know the rules and aren't welcome here, then clearly we are creating a permanent underclass to be exploited by criminals. Shame on US.
I am convinced that President Johnson had the best plan for solving the so-called illegal problem.
He simply provided the means for immigrants to become legal citizens of the United States of America.
Every Human being belongs on this Earth of ours. if people don't know the rules and aren't welcome here, then clearly we are creating a permanent underclass to be exploited by criminals. Shame on US.
3
Hard to say it much better. i'm embarrassed by my government and ashamed that my generation is responsible for it. How did the children of the vietnam war and the age of Aquarius become so crabbed, selfish and racist? It may lack courage but i will be an expat within a few months.
2
I pity the young too, I am so happy I have no children, sorry for those good people who do, and hope that those with children and voted for trump absorb everyone else's misery.
1
When I had to drive from Michigan to New York state on a regular basis in the 1970s (the Nixon years included), the U.S. border customs abused their authority intentionally damaging my car on more than one occasion to the point where it was hard to finish the drive. Why? Because I was in graduate school and visiting my parents in the Buffalo area was suspicious. Student equaled suspicious. Mind you my family has been in the U.S. since the 1600s so I cannot imagine what anyone not born here will face under Trump. We are back to the intimidation that was prevalent under Nixon and the thugs surrounding people like this. Cancel your travel is my advice. And yes, these people need watching.
72
When people who wanted the law to be enforced complained about the Obama Administration's policy of avoiding internal immigration enforcement they were gleefully told that immigration was a federal policy, that the feds had the right to set priorities and states had no right to interfere.
Well. We now have a different Administration with different priorities. And the same people who were lecturing everyone about federal supremacy have suddenly discovered states rights.
So it goes.
As has been written elsewhere it's unclear as to exactly why American citizens should be supportive of illegal immigration. All in all, it's not in our self-interest. And if you were Kate Steinle or Jamiel Shaw, illegal immigration was downright deadly.
I didn't vote for Trump. I don't like Trump. But on this issue, he's correct. No one has a right to enter and reside in my country illegally.
Well. We now have a different Administration with different priorities. And the same people who were lecturing everyone about federal supremacy have suddenly discovered states rights.
So it goes.
As has been written elsewhere it's unclear as to exactly why American citizens should be supportive of illegal immigration. All in all, it's not in our self-interest. And if you were Kate Steinle or Jamiel Shaw, illegal immigration was downright deadly.
I didn't vote for Trump. I don't like Trump. But on this issue, he's correct. No one has a right to enter and reside in my country illegally.
21
We are almost all illegal, including you. Unless course you're 100% Cherokee, or Pueblo, etc. Those who would close our borders simply don't share well with strangers--due to the perception that there isn't enough to go around. Instead of looking at those you deem beneath you for the solution, look up to the fat cats who have taken all but one cookie off the plate, and couldn't be happier at the spectacle of the masses fighting over it.
2
What a bizarre argument.
No one is arguing states rights. It's about human rights. It's about decency and racism and respect for all life--even brown-skinned lives.
No one is arguing states rights. It's about human rights. It's about decency and racism and respect for all life--even brown-skinned lives.
4
Agree 100%. I am not a Trump supporter. However, I have been driven from the Democratic Party by their hispandering nonsense of supporting, encouraging, and actively helping illegals. The position of the Democrats is morally bankrupt. In addition, their position of encouraging illegals has created a moral hazard. By encouraging illegals, they brought more here, and now they are complaining that these folks are being thrown out. To the Democratic Party: Stop with the hispandering and encouraging illegals. Trump won because of this issue. If you want to beat him in 2020, you need to change the Democratic Party approach to illegals.
2
Yes the Border Patrol is tasked with guarding our borders, and I give them credit for doing their job. But, it appears that they have an attitude internally that needs some tweaking. Yes, their job is catching people sneaking across the border. That's good.
Their job is bigger than that tho and they seem to have forgotten that. Why would they disagree with putting criminals at the front of the line and waiting to deport someone who has not broken any laws, except for the civiil law of being here without legal documentation? Why would they complain about deporting 400,000 undocumented people yearly? Is that enough? Its the most of any president.
So once more I need to say, their internal culture needs to be tweaked.
Their job is bigger than that tho and they seem to have forgotten that. Why would they disagree with putting criminals at the front of the line and waiting to deport someone who has not broken any laws, except for the civiil law of being here without legal documentation? Why would they complain about deporting 400,000 undocumented people yearly? Is that enough? Its the most of any president.
So once more I need to say, their internal culture needs to be tweaked.
14
If there is a reason that "we aren't better than that" it is people are tired of the endless tolerance of illegal immigration by the cabal of the left hoping for more voters and the chamber of commerce looking for cheap sources of labor. Add to that the 1984 like truth speak of renaming illegal aliens as undocumented workers, trying to blur the line between legal and illegal immigration, and telling people that questioning the issue makes you a racist. Come up with a reasonable plan, acknowledge the illegal immigration is problem and that we are entitled to control our own borders. Then you may find a more human view to the issue.
67
Well then, since you love to use words like "cabal" and "truthspeak", just be honest and tell me why right-minded folk (like you) will not arrest these sneaky aliens right out in the open. You know, there are thousands of them out in fields each day in hated California (bastion of lefties no less!). Have your ICE 'welcome groups' go to the orchards and fields and talk to the growers. Take buses with them to process the workers who are aliens, etc. That's a 'reasonable plan' coming from a leftie, OK? Why is that not a priority for tRump? Let me know what you think; I'll check back.
4
so until you get those demands met, you'll support breaking up families, laying in wait near elementary schools, etc? Do we have that right?
4
In case you didn't notice, the chamber of commerce is a "cabal" of the right. One whose members want desperately cheap labor to work in their farms and restaurants.
As a (liberal) chef, I can offer eyewitness testimony that there are jobs illegal immigrants do that American born folks just will not.
Here's an example from the Times:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/09/us/california-farmers-backed-trump-bu...
As a (liberal) chef, I can offer eyewitness testimony that there are jobs illegal immigrants do that American born folks just will not.
Here's an example from the Times:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/09/us/california-farmers-backed-trump-bu...
7
Legally speaking there is no such thing as a "unauthorized immigrants".
The subject individuals are not an "undocumented immigrant" or "unauthorized immigrants" but correctly an "illegal alien" as defined by US federal law.
Specifically, under federal law, any non-U.S. citizen is an alien. Aliens who have entered the United States without permission, or who have violated the terms of their admission, are identified under the law as illegal aliens. That is a fact, not an issue for debate.
"The term “alien” means any person not a citizen or national of the United States."—United States Code, Title 8, §1101(a)(3)
• "An illegal alien…is any alien (1) whose most recent entry into the United States was without inspection, or (2) whose most recent admission to the United States was as a nonimmigrant and—(A) whose period of authorized stay as a nonimmigrant expired, or (B) whose unlawful status was known to the Government, before the date of the commission of the crime for which the alien is convicted."—United States Code, Title 8, §1365(b)
The mainstream media and many others are pushing their personal agenda of trying to decriminalize what is criminal behavior with euphemisms. It is also a fact that, according to U.S. law, it is a crime to enter the United States without permission. The first offense is a misdemeanor, the second, a felony. It is true, however, that most violations of immigration law are dealt with in a civil court and not in a criminal court.
The subject individuals are not an "undocumented immigrant" or "unauthorized immigrants" but correctly an "illegal alien" as defined by US federal law.
Specifically, under federal law, any non-U.S. citizen is an alien. Aliens who have entered the United States without permission, or who have violated the terms of their admission, are identified under the law as illegal aliens. That is a fact, not an issue for debate.
"The term “alien” means any person not a citizen or national of the United States."—United States Code, Title 8, §1101(a)(3)
• "An illegal alien…is any alien (1) whose most recent entry into the United States was without inspection, or (2) whose most recent admission to the United States was as a nonimmigrant and—(A) whose period of authorized stay as a nonimmigrant expired, or (B) whose unlawful status was known to the Government, before the date of the commission of the crime for which the alien is convicted."—United States Code, Title 8, §1365(b)
The mainstream media and many others are pushing their personal agenda of trying to decriminalize what is criminal behavior with euphemisms. It is also a fact that, according to U.S. law, it is a crime to enter the United States without permission. The first offense is a misdemeanor, the second, a felony. It is true, however, that most violations of immigration law are dealt with in a civil court and not in a criminal court.
68
"Legally speaking there is no such thing as a "unauthorized immigrants"."
Speaking in the current vernacular of American English, the word alien is used to either describe a space monster in the movies, or to name an entity that is completely foreign to human life.
In many, many countries, emigration bureaucracies are sympathetic to those who can cough up the money - and even when the fees are met, the process is not always competent. Most of these "aliens" are getting out of a soured living situation and have put an extraordinary amount of effort into coming here. It's a lot more difficult - and often impossible - to do it legally.
The law you cite is part of legislation passed in 1986, and it's specifics are much more closely defined than the broader immigration laws our immigrant ancestors had to deal with. Considering our common history, it's unAmerican to dump these people coming into our country into an antiseptic legal definition and treat them as less than human.
The ICE officers have the authority to act with flexible discretion in the field and I hope they keep the greater American spirit of the laws they work under.
If they don't exercise their own judgement and decide to stand on the minutia of the law, their actions can push us into becoming a flagrantly militarized society.
Speaking in the current vernacular of American English, the word alien is used to either describe a space monster in the movies, or to name an entity that is completely foreign to human life.
In many, many countries, emigration bureaucracies are sympathetic to those who can cough up the money - and even when the fees are met, the process is not always competent. Most of these "aliens" are getting out of a soured living situation and have put an extraordinary amount of effort into coming here. It's a lot more difficult - and often impossible - to do it legally.
The law you cite is part of legislation passed in 1986, and it's specifics are much more closely defined than the broader immigration laws our immigrant ancestors had to deal with. Considering our common history, it's unAmerican to dump these people coming into our country into an antiseptic legal definition and treat them as less than human.
The ICE officers have the authority to act with flexible discretion in the field and I hope they keep the greater American spirit of the laws they work under.
If they don't exercise their own judgement and decide to stand on the minutia of the law, their actions can push us into becoming a flagrantly militarized society.
1
Yes but under the law there is also a statute of limitation. Why are we deporting people who have been here for 20 years? In Texas here are some of the more serious crimes with statutes of limitations.
Thefts involving fiduciaries or officials forgery, sexual assault, indecency with a child: 10 yrs.; misapplication of fiduciary property: 7 yrs.; other theft, burglary, robbery, and certain sexual assaults: 5 yrs.; arson: 7 yrs.; others: 3 yrs.
So they leave rapists and child molesters alone after 10 years but seek out and deport Mexicans that have been here for 20 years and more! Good ole Texas justice!!
Thefts involving fiduciaries or officials forgery, sexual assault, indecency with a child: 10 yrs.; misapplication of fiduciary property: 7 yrs.; other theft, burglary, robbery, and certain sexual assaults: 5 yrs.; arson: 7 yrs.; others: 3 yrs.
So they leave rapists and child molesters alone after 10 years but seek out and deport Mexicans that have been here for 20 years and more! Good ole Texas justice!!
3
If you read the definition quoted for illegal alien, it does not say what you think it says. It is defining as illegal aliens those who have committed a crime in the US after entering in the ways mentioned. Hence others, who have not committed a crime in the US are not "illegal aliens". Since you insist on using the terms correctly, please do.
The election of 45 not only unleashed white hate groups, it unleashed the Trump para military deportation force. There will be no oversight of these law enforcement groups as most of them supported 45. The Supreme court will hear a case of an I.C.E. officer who shot over the border, and killed a 15 year old, caught on video, we will see just how much leeway is given to these border enforcement folks.
46
Until Ms. Greenhouse and other NYT columnists cease referring to illegal aliens as undocumented immigrants they will be preaching to the choir.
I just spent a week traveling with a senior border patrol enforcement agent. Got an earful about some of the ridiculous "rights" accorded to lawbreakers of this sort.
The case against Mesa seems clearcut. Citing it as a normal action by border patrol is irrelevant to the broader issues.
I just spent a week traveling with a senior border patrol enforcement agent. Got an earful about some of the ridiculous "rights" accorded to lawbreakers of this sort.
The case against Mesa seems clearcut. Citing it as a normal action by border patrol is irrelevant to the broader issues.
25
I fear too. But I fear for a variation of this premise. I fear for what might happen when the President himself orders that the law be ignored or disobeyed. Will law enforcement or the military stand up against their "commander in chief" in that instance?
10
I was intrigued by ICE union endorsing 45, but did not make much of it. Now when I read that the union president filed suit against the US government and, more importantly, that they were represented by Kris Kobach, he of the millions-of-illegals-voted-for-Hillary-Clinton fame, I am convinced that ICE is waiting to enforce the law, not as humanely as possible, but as inhumanely as possible. While I understand that ICE officers are the front line in a difficult and contentious context, there is no need to be uncivil and inhumane. That is not just un-American, it is un-human.
167
"While I understand that ICE officers are the front line in a difficult and contentious context, there is no need to be uncivil and inhumane."
It's also extremely unprofessional.
It's also extremely unprofessional.
4
Let's not be naive about our history. Inhumane and uncivil treatment of immigrants (documented or not) or "others" in general is as American as apple pie.
1
The America the Trumpers voted for is a dark and foreboding place. They think they will be unaffected by any of this, they are wrong. Unfortunately, by the time they figure it out it may be too late for all of us.
71
Have no fear, all this Trump stuff is simply precursor to our next civil war.
The attack dogs are quite happy to have unfettered access to fresh meat. Restraining them, so that they would be fair and humane, and maybe even useful, runs counter to the savage mentality they embody. We have all read how immigration is actually a benefit, reducing crime, increasing salaries, improving the lives of immigrants as well as their surroundings. What would an animal like that care about value or humanity, since it only wants more fresh meat, with comfort in knowing that they won't be restrained in the future...
22
An unreported element about the unprecedented speed with which Trumputin's travel ban was implemented is the border agent union's support for his candidacy. They were enthusiastic supporters of the ban.
26
Heck YES! as where a clear majority of American citizens! who are tired of seeing our borders and laws flouted!
#yesMYpresident
#yesMYpresident
1
The current public relations campaign that the Trump Administration has spun surrounding deportation is just piling more alternative facts on truth.
Getting rid of bad hombres? Casting out hard working immigrants who contribute to our economy. Breaking up families and leaving motherless children who as American children will add to our social services rolls or eventually end up in our prison systems. Upending Latino communities and creating fear and intimidation.
I suggest everyone find a film, A Day Without A Mexican, a 2004 movie, which cleverly demonstrates how vital our immigrant population is to our lives.
Since President Trump enjoys TV and media so much, maybe someone should suggest he sit down and watch it. He might glean something from it since he skips all those briefings.
I was an English as a Second Language teacher for 34 years and I know how much this population can contribute to our lives. They will enrich the U.S. and we are throwing away a valuable resource.
Getting rid of bad hombres? Casting out hard working immigrants who contribute to our economy. Breaking up families and leaving motherless children who as American children will add to our social services rolls or eventually end up in our prison systems. Upending Latino communities and creating fear and intimidation.
I suggest everyone find a film, A Day Without A Mexican, a 2004 movie, which cleverly demonstrates how vital our immigrant population is to our lives.
Since President Trump enjoys TV and media so much, maybe someone should suggest he sit down and watch it. He might glean something from it since he skips all those briefings.
I was an English as a Second Language teacher for 34 years and I know how much this population can contribute to our lives. They will enrich the U.S. and we are throwing away a valuable resource.
125
Our rising tide of pseudo-nativism rises from a profound lack of empathy for other human beings. We would all truly understand the problem if the Border Patrol actually did its job completely. They should confine anyone without papers, Anglo and Latino alike, as potentially illegal immigrants. Only the First Nations people should get a pass, like the Apache, Hopi, Dine, Anasazi and the like. True nativism would return the country to its original inhabitants. Then we might see the vast majority of us are all immigrants. Having come here sooner should not grant anyone a special exemption--to do otherwise is simple prejudice even if culturally sanctioned.
43
Doug Mc wrote: "Our rising tide of pseudo-nativism rises from a profound lack of empathy for other human beings."
No, the lack of empathy for illegal aliens arises from the prior lack of empathy for those Americans whose livelihood and lives were destroyed by illegal aliens in the workforce, driving down wages well below what is livable. Rather than empathy, those American citizens were derided while the exploiters of illegal aliens cheerfully explained that these were jobs Americans won't do.
Deporting all illegal aliens is right, it is just, and America and her citizens will be better for it.
No, the lack of empathy for illegal aliens arises from the prior lack of empathy for those Americans whose livelihood and lives were destroyed by illegal aliens in the workforce, driving down wages well below what is livable. Rather than empathy, those American citizens were derided while the exploiters of illegal aliens cheerfully explained that these were jobs Americans won't do.
Deporting all illegal aliens is right, it is just, and America and her citizens will be better for it.
5
Doug McC, Northern Virginia,
No room for nuance? We should not have let the illegal immigration situation get this bad. We should screen people one by one, and determine whether we want each to be a citizen or be deported. We should enforce our borders, and deport, and make it clear that the legal path is the only path. We cannot have as citizens those with no respect for our laws. There is no entitlement for those not born here to live here. And we should crack down harshly on employers and exploiters. There are illegal immigrants who would make good citizens, but not all 11 million and not even all dreamers.
No room for nuance? We should not have let the illegal immigration situation get this bad. We should screen people one by one, and determine whether we want each to be a citizen or be deported. We should enforce our borders, and deport, and make it clear that the legal path is the only path. We cannot have as citizens those with no respect for our laws. There is no entitlement for those not born here to live here. And we should crack down harshly on employers and exploiters. There are illegal immigrants who would make good citizens, but not all 11 million and not even all dreamers.
1
If we are to have free trade agreements, why isn't labor one of the things allowed to be traded? It is the most basic commodity.
Many immigrants are just looking for work (and usually finding it), so why not recognize that? And allow it proceed in an orderly fashion.
Or maybe just start calling the free trade agreements what they are, that is "free trade for large companies only".
Many immigrants are just looking for work (and usually finding it), so why not recognize that? And allow it proceed in an orderly fashion.
Or maybe just start calling the free trade agreements what they are, that is "free trade for large companies only".
48
Ms. Greenhouse is correct in questioning the activities of the US Border Patrol and Immigration and Enforcement Officers. What is also troubling is Mr. Trump's Executive Order issued on 1/25/17 regarding security in the interior of the US. Section 7 of the E.O. authorizes the hiring of 10,000 immigration officers. Section 8 of the E.O. empowers all State and local law enforcement officers to perform the functions of an immigration officer.
This appears to be a veiled attempt by the Trump Administration to allow any LEO to ask of any person to prove to them that they are legally in the US.
Will we now be required to carry proof of citizenship wherever we travel in the United States of America and why we are where we are and what are we doing there?
This is a frightening thought.
This appears to be a veiled attempt by the Trump Administration to allow any LEO to ask of any person to prove to them that they are legally in the US.
Will we now be required to carry proof of citizenship wherever we travel in the United States of America and why we are where we are and what are we doing there?
This is a frightening thought.
156
My US-born Latino father and I already carry proof of citizenship with us. We live 15 miles from the Canadian border and are sufficiently well-versed in history to can see what is coming unless something changes very soon.
5
Isn't that EO in diametric opposition to the one he signed calling for an across the board federal hiring freeze, the military excepted?
2
In the great state of Florida, at least in Pinellas County, you are required to carry on your person government issued identification.
1
Eager to be mean, to be cruel. There is never a shortage of sadists. There are unpaid,volunteer patrols hunting frightened, unarmed people wandering in deserts. Righteous, patriotic, for sure. Keep them away from children, please.
114
this is true, btw, as I can report first-hand. I was approached by an armed person who demanded to know if I'd seen "the illegal" in the area - while I had my brown-skinned in-laws in the car with me. And this was a decade ago...imagine how much worse things are in the Southwest now.
4
Geez, "the cops are all pigs", and "all cops are fascists". The ICE agents, who were hamstrung by Obama rules, want to do their jobs. They have 8 years of back work to complete. There's gonna be a lot of screaming, and I welcome the sound of the screaming. We have laws for a reason. We need to enforce them. And that starts now. Mr. Trump was primarily elected for this specific reason. DEPORT!!
1
The answer to Greenhouse's final question is blindingly obvious: Congress. And that is increasingly an answer to fear even more.
73
A close friend of mine teaches at an elementary school in Austin, TX with a high Hispanic population. The children are pretty much all citizens; a number of their parents are not. ICE agents set up a checkpoint near the school so that parents would have to pass it to pick up their children. The point seemed to be to catch the parents or force them to leave their children there. Teachers stayed very late to try to help. The children were (and are) completely and utterly terrified. Agents were also going house to house in the neighborhood. They have also come inside the school itself. I am continually amazed when people simply scream "law and order" at me in the face of such cruelty.
376
I teach at a small liberal arts university in Austin, and just learned yesterday that one of my students is a DACA (Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals) who must re-register tomorrow. Thank God I learned this as I was able to connect her with a lawyer. But I know there are many more such students at the school, who also need to talk to lawyers, who need protection. Our entire city is tense, panic-stricken, anguishing. And our Congressional representatives (in our gerrymandered districts) do not answer phones, do not have staff in their offices.
As for those who say these people came illegally, I say: educate yourselves about the conditions that compelled people to leave their homes and families. Educate yourselves about the quota system our antediluvian immigration system allots Latin American countries. Educate yourselves about the role our country plays in the life-threatening conditions in those countries. And consider what you would do if you faced certain death. Six million Jews died in Europe in WWII because our quotas denied them visas.
As for those who say these people came illegally, I say: educate yourselves about the conditions that compelled people to leave their homes and families. Educate yourselves about the quota system our antediluvian immigration system allots Latin American countries. Educate yourselves about the role our country plays in the life-threatening conditions in those countries. And consider what you would do if you faced certain death. Six million Jews died in Europe in WWII because our quotas denied them visas.
13
Spare your tears. The parents put themselves in this position. They are here illegally. They were not forced to come. Now, the piper must be paid. I welcome the enforcement.
11
I also live in Austin and can attest to the veracity of your friends statement. The tactics employed by these agents are absolutely terrifying and brutal. I believe that having a sadistic trait and a total lack of empathy and humanity is a key element to employment with ICE.
6
I am more worried about the infiltration of our border agents by Mexican cartels than I am that individual agents will be as psychopathic as many of our police. Let's get border security first before we worry about relative meanness.
14
Maybe border agents should stop wasting so much time and taxpayer money ripping apart peaceful, hard-working, loving families, and focus their efforts on drugs/cartels.
85
We have no border security problem is you use facts and history to make your judgments. I know, I live on the border now and have for a good many years.
2
My concern is not having border agents as psycopathic as some of our police. My concern is having border agents as psychopathic as our president.
3
The law grants too much authority to border agents, even when they are dealing with U.S. citizens holding valid travel documents.
135
Like you Ms Greenhouse, I am quite concerned about how ICE agents do their jobs.
Handcuffing five year olds, ignoring court orders, coercing people into surrendering green cards, etc. etc. etc. are all inhumane, unprofessional, and reprehensible actions. And it's part of a pattern of bad behavior over the course of years by the people we entrust to welcome visitors and keep out the bad hombres.
But shooting a child across the border is in no way similar to deporting someone who is not legally in the United States. One is, or should be, a crime. The other is ICE agents' actual job.
Don't like the law? Change it. We the people and all that.
Don't conflate legal deportation with murder or all ICE's other unnecessarily disrespectful, inhumane, and unprofessional actions.
Reform ICE. There is plenty of work there without blaming them for doing the job they have been charged to do.
Handcuffing five year olds, ignoring court orders, coercing people into surrendering green cards, etc. etc. etc. are all inhumane, unprofessional, and reprehensible actions. And it's part of a pattern of bad behavior over the course of years by the people we entrust to welcome visitors and keep out the bad hombres.
But shooting a child across the border is in no way similar to deporting someone who is not legally in the United States. One is, or should be, a crime. The other is ICE agents' actual job.
Don't like the law? Change it. We the people and all that.
Don't conflate legal deportation with murder or all ICE's other unnecessarily disrespectful, inhumane, and unprofessional actions.
Reform ICE. There is plenty of work there without blaming them for doing the job they have been charged to do.
65
Looking to make Border Agents great again, Tiger? How many ICE/BP agents have been prosecuted for stealing money from those they arrest? Will we go back to arresting school children and calling parents to pick them up so we can deport another family? Some of us in Tucson remember when the BP was paid poorly. Brown skill is illegal in Arizona because the 2nd Amendment trumps "Thou Shalt Not Kill". Time for Congress to end the legislative coma of the past administration.
1
The author had to go back seven years to find a truly controversial shooting incident.
We are better than this. But there's a malignancy growing, nurtured by the racist and xenophobic rhetoric of our current president. People think it's okay to be inhumane. They've forgotten (for some perhaps they never have admitted) that we're all immigrants to this country except for Native Americans. Many of us have ancestors who came here illegally. This isn't new and should not be surprising nor is it a despicable offense. A road to citizenship is what should happen. Hard working people should be welcomed. Thank you for shining a light on this. These are very dark days.
233
I am tired of this "we're all immigrants " trope. Black Americans are not immigrants.
Every country in the "New World" started as a settler state. Every last one. Any yet, just like every other country on the planet, the nations in North and South America still have the right and duty to determine who gets to enter into and reside within their country. Period.
Every country in the "New World" started as a settler state. Every last one. Any yet, just like every other country on the planet, the nations in North and South America still have the right and duty to determine who gets to enter into and reside within their country. Period.
3
You are right, Americans are better than this. See http://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-wednesday-edition-1.39... for proof of what some Americans do when people are denied entry into the US because of their religion.
Actually, we are not all immigrants. America is not now and has never been a “nation of immigrants.” Most Americans alive during the Revolutionary War were native-born. (Only nine of the 56 delegates who signed the Constitution were immigrants.) Today, the Census Bureau list 86.8 percent of people residing in America as native born and 13.2 percent as foreign born, but the Census Bureau counts residents, not citizens. About 42 million people residing in the United States are foreign born, but not all of these are Americans, about half are citizens. More than 11 million of the foreign are illegal immigrants and millions more are green card holders. Less than 10 percent of American citizens are immigrants.
1
The Sergio Hernandez case has provoked two reactions in Mexico. Some Mexicans are pressing for a pledge by candidates for the 2018 presidential election that they will refuse to extradite drug kingpins wanted by the United States until the US sends them Mr. Mesa and any other Border Patrol agent who kills someone on the Mexican side of the border. And others suggest that each time someone from the Border Patrol kills a Mexican on the Mexican side of the border an agent, any agent, should be killed in return. The Supreme Court may resolve the law in a way that satisfies Ms. Greenhouse but until Mexicans feel confident that arbitrary shootings will be managed with an eye for justice all our Border Patrol officers will be in jeopardy.
59
Why doesn't Mexico keep kids away from such dangerous areas?
Why doesn't Mexico tell kids, "go home and study, quit goofing off?"
USA999, are you going to volunteer to help secure our borders?
Why doesn't Mexico tell kids, "go home and study, quit goofing off?"
USA999, are you going to volunteer to help secure our borders?
2
The killing of Sergio Hernandez has haunted me since I first read of it, and even more after seeing a graphic that showed the order, culver and the neighborhood adjacent to them.
Who can't imagine any teen playing some dumb game like that?
How is it possible that that kind of game is any kind of threat to grown men in body armour carrying firearms? Why should anyone be able to shoot a gun across the border into a sovereign nation and not be charged with murder?
Sergio was in his own country.
How is it that our agents are defended after showing callous disregard for human life? Even for kids? From an administration that calls itself "pro-life"?
But I saw a picture from the airport debacle that showed an 8 year old handcuffed behind his back, the cuffs so much too big for him that he was cuffed on his upper arms. Who does that to kids?
And the elderly couple, one blind, one with diabetes, detained as their daughter waited on the other side, frantic... what possible good could ever come from such barbaric treatment?
Our nation is showing its ugly to each other and to the world - treating those who have arrived with hope with disdain and cruelty. Who is watching the archers, and who is setting the tone? We are devolving from within.
Who can't imagine any teen playing some dumb game like that?
How is it possible that that kind of game is any kind of threat to grown men in body armour carrying firearms? Why should anyone be able to shoot a gun across the border into a sovereign nation and not be charged with murder?
Sergio was in his own country.
How is it that our agents are defended after showing callous disregard for human life? Even for kids? From an administration that calls itself "pro-life"?
But I saw a picture from the airport debacle that showed an 8 year old handcuffed behind his back, the cuffs so much too big for him that he was cuffed on his upper arms. Who does that to kids?
And the elderly couple, one blind, one with diabetes, detained as their daughter waited on the other side, frantic... what possible good could ever come from such barbaric treatment?
Our nation is showing its ugly to each other and to the world - treating those who have arrived with hope with disdain and cruelty. Who is watching the archers, and who is setting the tone? We are devolving from within.
286
First of all, Clinton was for open borders. Proof is her statement made prior to the election she did say she was for free trade and open border in the Americas. Remember?
Also, I think the border patrol agents on the Mexican border and within the States are the very people who have knowledge of what they experience in dealing with illegals.
As for Yates, she served at the pleasure of the President. So guess what, he did not find it pleasurable to see an employee not following orders.
Concerning the woman in Arizona, she did not do anything wrong. She was just convicted of identity theft.
Finally if you think, like Clinton that drunk driving is such a minor offense, go ahead and get hit by an illegal immigrant that can maim or kill you.
This is crazy, who is supposed to establish rules? Those who support illegals who defy laws or elected officials?
Also, I think the border patrol agents on the Mexican border and within the States are the very people who have knowledge of what they experience in dealing with illegals.
As for Yates, she served at the pleasure of the President. So guess what, he did not find it pleasurable to see an employee not following orders.
Concerning the woman in Arizona, she did not do anything wrong. She was just convicted of identity theft.
Finally if you think, like Clinton that drunk driving is such a minor offense, go ahead and get hit by an illegal immigrant that can maim or kill you.
This is crazy, who is supposed to establish rules? Those who support illegals who defy laws or elected officials?
13
There has been no candidates for high office that have ever been for open borders. None. That is false.
As to your 2nd point - Are you aware of how many Americans are driving drunk, distracted or impaired by drugs? When you are hit by an American are you any less hurt, any less dead?
If only it were so easy to blame the high rate of traffic fatalities squarely on the shoulders of the foreign born. But that is a pipe dream.
Sally Yates will be remembered in the same category as Archibald Cox, when this story is written - imo.
As to your 2nd point - Are you aware of how many Americans are driving drunk, distracted or impaired by drugs? When you are hit by an American are you any less hurt, any less dead?
If only it were so easy to blame the high rate of traffic fatalities squarely on the shoulders of the foreign born. But that is a pipe dream.
Sally Yates will be remembered in the same category as Archibald Cox, when this story is written - imo.
48
"First of all, Clinton was for open borders. Proof is her statement made prior to the election she did say she was for free trade and open border in the Americas. Remember?"
I do remember.
She was speaking about international electric power grids, not immigration movement.
I do remember.
She was speaking about international electric power grids, not immigration movement.
5
Ms. Greenhouse points out a serious issue indeed, which goes hand-in-hand with the Border Patrol operating up to 100 miles in from our boundaries, stopping any and all to ask ' Where are you going ? ' and ' Where are your papers ? ':
https://www.texasobserver.org/border-patrol-takes-no-for-an-answer-at-in...
This will become a more important issue as various state police/departments of public safety want the same powers to sift through neighborhoods in major cities located outside a 100-mile perimeter from the nearest border.
https://www.texasobserver.org/border-patrol-takes-no-for-an-answer-at-in...
This will become a more important issue as various state police/departments of public safety want the same powers to sift through neighborhoods in major cities located outside a 100-mile perimeter from the nearest border.
102
More fully answering Linda's question, it will be an independent judiciary that will watch the agents watch us - of course, Sen. Cruz tried to kick that concept to the curb during the primaries:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/06/27/ted-cruz...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/06/27/ted-cruz...
18
Neighbor Al (Asian) got stopped at the Detroit bus station by feds. As soon as he spoke in Midwest English, they left. Took 25 seconds -- world did not end.
As for "watching" -- Ms. Linda, what about the NYPD street cops who watch over NYTimes street-corner circulation boxes? Do they meet your standards? Protect your pension and fees?
Well, ICE and DHS haven't met our standards for 25 years, and we're pretty unhappy. And until they do, everything else is secondary.
As for "watching" -- Ms. Linda, what about the NYPD street cops who watch over NYTimes street-corner circulation boxes? Do they meet your standards? Protect your pension and fees?
Well, ICE and DHS haven't met our standards for 25 years, and we're pretty unhappy. And until they do, everything else is secondary.
1
A woman (and mother) who has illegally entered the country many years ago -- is a criminal.
A man who takes the life of a defenseless child when that child was within the borders of his own country -- is not.
This is a disgrace. The ICE agent should be looking at a jail sentence and summary dismissal from duty for what he did. Anything less is a bloodstain on the Stars and Stripes.