What we know now has no effect on past events, but judgement and time aren't mutually exclusive. I will use the hand of time to point directly at the 70s.
I was born in 82 so I wasn't a thought when little Etan Patz was lured and killed. As a kid growing up in the 80s I most likely benefited from the unfortunate demise of Etan that birthed a "think twice" before letting your child or children walk or play alone especially outside the supervision of "trusted adults".
Maybe I benefited from my parents primary fear that if I wandered to far from the porch the possibility of me getting hit by a stray bullet significantly increased. A basic fear of a child crossing the streets without looking both ways was enough to send chills up a parent's spine.
I am certainly not blaming Mrs. Patz for the death of her child. However, I am making a statement against the claims of "things like that never happen(ed) here". Hearing stories about serial killers like Ted Bundy who terrorized the 70s terrified me in the 90s. I didn't need to it happened in proximity to me to take heed.
Hopefully, the Patz family can at least sleep a few more hours a night knowing the guy who possibly killed their son has now been held responsible for his murder. My prayers are with Mr. and Mrs. Patz.
I was born in 82 so I wasn't a thought when little Etan Patz was lured and killed. As a kid growing up in the 80s I most likely benefited from the unfortunate demise of Etan that birthed a "think twice" before letting your child or children walk or play alone especially outside the supervision of "trusted adults".
Maybe I benefited from my parents primary fear that if I wandered to far from the porch the possibility of me getting hit by a stray bullet significantly increased. A basic fear of a child crossing the streets without looking both ways was enough to send chills up a parent's spine.
I am certainly not blaming Mrs. Patz for the death of her child. However, I am making a statement against the claims of "things like that never happen(ed) here". Hearing stories about serial killers like Ted Bundy who terrorized the 70s terrified me in the 90s. I didn't need to it happened in proximity to me to take heed.
Hopefully, the Patz family can at least sleep a few more hours a night knowing the guy who possibly killed their son has now been held responsible for his murder. My prayers are with Mr. and Mrs. Patz.
1
I was raised in Brooklyn, New York, and I remember Etan Patz disappearance very well! I was just nineteen when it happened, and I sympathized with the anguish and frustration his parents were going through! I had always hoped that somehow young Etan was still alive, but thank God that after 38 years justice has finally been served, and Etan Patz can rest in peace!
1
February 15, 2015
Forever the case will remain heroic for every effort to resolve the crime, and that keeps open our prayers and even with this verdict the questing is our light as a guide to what civilized New York City will forever live for the beauty of our child son and all should live our dreams in accolade to Etan Patz life that was short and forever in love by our community.
Forever the case will remain heroic for every effort to resolve the crime, and that keeps open our prayers and even with this verdict the questing is our light as a guide to what civilized New York City will forever live for the beauty of our child son and all should live our dreams in accolade to Etan Patz life that was short and forever in love by our community.
3
When I read this story, the same shiver went down my spine that did back in May of 1979, when I had a 1-year-old. This was the very beginning of the realization that the world had changed forever...
2
If the location of the trash dump that served that area is knowable, and some clever researchers can narrow the search zone, I think that an effort should be made to recover Etan's body. Sure, it's expensive, but how many times has law enforcement dug up an area looking for Jimmy Hoffa, after all?
4
Dear NorthernVirginia,
This has been tried many years, excavated in the basement of a nearby store and so on. The body is gone, it's best to accept it. There is no real closure granted by retrieving it anyway.
This has been tried many years, excavated in the basement of a nearby store and so on. The body is gone, it's best to accept it. There is no real closure granted by retrieving it anyway.
4
So we render *closure* to the Patz family on the back of a mentally-handicapped, mentally-ill man? And then at last we can all sleep well at night, knowing how long Etan*s parents have waited for this moment?
For all we know the real killer is dead now. Perhaps it is the more plausible suspect--the one so plausible the Patz family won a civil judgment against him, that had to be vacated in order for this trial to proceed. We*ll never know, without those unbearably sad remains coming to light, and the chances are just about nil.
It*s another sad day for NYC.
For all we know the real killer is dead now. Perhaps it is the more plausible suspect--the one so plausible the Patz family won a civil judgment against him, that had to be vacated in order for this trial to proceed. We*ll never know, without those unbearably sad remains coming to light, and the chances are just about nil.
It*s another sad day for NYC.
8
Much as I have always hoped that the Patz family would find out who killed their son and have justice be done, I have a slight uneasiness about this conviction.
With very emotional cases like this - especially where nearly 40 years has gone by since the killing - there is always the danger that the need to give the grieving family closure trumps justice. It seems like a very flimsy evidentiary case to me.
I hope I am wrong.
With very emotional cases like this - especially where nearly 40 years has gone by since the killing - there is always the danger that the need to give the grieving family closure trumps justice. It seems like a very flimsy evidentiary case to me.
I hope I am wrong.
12
I really feel sympathetic to the parents of Etan Patz, inasmuch as they eventually became convinced that Pedro Hernandez was his murderer but given also that this conviction may never give them the closure they deserve.
But I don't believe that this trial could be said to have resolved for good the tragic case of the disappearance of Etan Patz.
Supposing that this man had retained a single bit of physical evidence - for example a small article this child had on his person, and that piece of evidence was produced at this trial. That's the kind of evidence that would clinch his murder conviction in my own estimation. I think of the positive identification of the blanket found near the workplace of the mother of Timothy Wiltsey which enabled her conviction of her own son's murder - that's the kind of evidence I think is missing to finally solve this crime for good.
Instead we have a great deal of admittedly very suggestive circumstantial evidence, and most of all this man's confessions to this crime. But Pedro Hernandez is a profoundly mentally ill man whose close relations have recounted his verbally expressed delusions to investigators.
Then there are my own lingering questions. One of them is: If, as he said he did, Hernandez disposed of his victim's body in the trash near the bodega at whic he was employed, why did not the police - who went into action as soon Etan's panicked parents got into touch with them - find any trace of the boy in their neighborhood search?
But I don't believe that this trial could be said to have resolved for good the tragic case of the disappearance of Etan Patz.
Supposing that this man had retained a single bit of physical evidence - for example a small article this child had on his person, and that piece of evidence was produced at this trial. That's the kind of evidence that would clinch his murder conviction in my own estimation. I think of the positive identification of the blanket found near the workplace of the mother of Timothy Wiltsey which enabled her conviction of her own son's murder - that's the kind of evidence I think is missing to finally solve this crime for good.
Instead we have a great deal of admittedly very suggestive circumstantial evidence, and most of all this man's confessions to this crime. But Pedro Hernandez is a profoundly mentally ill man whose close relations have recounted his verbally expressed delusions to investigators.
Then there are my own lingering questions. One of them is: If, as he said he did, Hernandez disposed of his victim's body in the trash near the bodega at whic he was employed, why did not the police - who went into action as soon Etan's panicked parents got into touch with them - find any trace of the boy in their neighborhood search?
9
I did not know that the NYPD and Manhattan prosecutor had the resources to pursue a case for 38 years. That will be a great relief to the thousands of other crime victims over the last 4 decades.
4
The article says that the police were alerted in 2012 by someone who said that they believed that Hernandez was involved. The case doesn't need to have been 'active' that whole time.
1
How about the city naming that street corner in Etan's memory? Etan Patz Way or something like that? It would be a nice gesture...
1
John Mark Karr confessed to murdering JonBenet Ramsey. But he didn't do it. It seems possible that Pedro Hernandez with his low IQ and mental health issues loathes himself enough to be convinced that he murdered Etan Patz. If this is true, why should we care? For his sake, many of us will not. But for ours the concern is paramount. If we are willing to go along with the word of this highly questionable witness we are become the chorus to pathetic tragedy. There is another man with motive, opportunity, and witnesses against him. Yet he is not prosecuted. It is easier to convict this sin-eater, Hernandez.
9
I have a suspicion that the second trial was a sham. After the lone holdout in the first trial, it's quite likely that the prosecutor managed to exclude from the second trial any prospective juror who wasn't willing to convict on a confession, ergo no real need to hold the second trial at all.
9
It would be very difficult for a juror to be a lone hold-out, or one of a few. Note how both juries spoke of multiple innocent votes dwindling down to one or none. The father quietly sat there every day with a small pillow on his chair. The jurors knew that there was no other suspect, and no further investigation would follow. If not convicted, the case would remain open for eternity, with no closure and no one brought to justice. When a jury has no evidence either way, and are faced with this, they begin to feel that no conviction is an injustice itself. Note how they later went to great pains to explain how thorough and focused they were--as if that itself gives credence to the verdict. It was a very difficult position for them all, and unfortunately, unlike the first trial, no one was willing to make stand based on the lack of evidence. This is something they will live with.
3
In response to Julie Grey's question:
"Julie Patz . . . was busy tending to her other children, and Etan . . . had been pushing to be more independent. He pleaded with her to let him walk about two blocks to the bus stop on his own."
I am positive that a day doesn't go by in which Etan's Mother regrets making that fateful decision.
13
I am a mother of three. I think I was a pretty good mom, but I can guarantee you that I am just lucky that my children entered into adulthood and parenthood without incident. I know I had many moments that would be considered "neglectful" by today's standards of helicopter parenting.
Still so sorry for the family.
Still so sorry for the family.
10
One can see the change in the way parents watch their children every afternoon across the nation as clusters of parents gather at bus stops to greet elementary and middle school students in the afternoons and escort them homeward. While there was an element of panic in the case of Etan and others, such mindfulness is not entirely irrational. Even back when I was high school age there were reports of men pulling up to waiting kids and exposing themselves, but I don't remember any news stories about children being abducted. Did the reporting change or was that a safer time?
We had a case in the Washington, DC, area when my daughter was an infant that changed us dramatically. A little girl was left alone in a children's wading pool for a few minutes while her father went inside their house and she was taken and killed. This was beyond shocking. We had to ask, Can you not leave your child alone in your own backyard for even two minutes? It later turned out she was taken by a mentally deranged neighbor who had been involved in a similar abduction and murder previously.
News reporting about these and other events changed America. Kids were encouraged to get involved in organized activities, like soccer, in the after school hours, always under the eyes of parents. A lot of the spontaneity and freedom, and the learning that occurs because of it, was taken out of childhood. We also had the "daycare panic" of the 1980s which saw some innocent people accused and sent to prison.
We had a case in the Washington, DC, area when my daughter was an infant that changed us dramatically. A little girl was left alone in a children's wading pool for a few minutes while her father went inside their house and she was taken and killed. This was beyond shocking. We had to ask, Can you not leave your child alone in your own backyard for even two minutes? It later turned out she was taken by a mentally deranged neighbor who had been involved in a similar abduction and murder previously.
News reporting about these and other events changed America. Kids were encouraged to get involved in organized activities, like soccer, in the after school hours, always under the eyes of parents. A lot of the spontaneity and freedom, and the learning that occurs because of it, was taken out of childhood. We also had the "daycare panic" of the 1980s which saw some innocent people accused and sent to prison.
8
We live in a time when it*s considered very bad taste to observe that bad choices often lead to bad outcomes, and that painful facts are not a moral judgment but simply painful facts.
People get away with dangerous choices until the day they don't. Many crimes are crimes of opportunity. When the opportunity is not there, the potential perpetrator doesn't necessarily go hunting for it. One bad choice sometimes triggers the other.
Did the Patz case cause a sea change in how people behaved? Or did it remind them of what they always knew--that life is full of known and unknown dangers, and parents are supposed to have better judgment than their children? That just because children beg to do something doesn't mean parents say yes?
We live in strange times. Everyone, apparently, according to comments here, ran around alone all the time in the vast canyons of urban neighborhoods but nothing ever happened to them. At the same time, according to what seem like daily news stories, sexual predators are everywhere, in every institution frequented by children, perpetrated by those adults children are specifically taught to trust, and these predations stretch back to the childhoods of people now in advanced middle age.
There was never a time children were not at risk, even from friendly Sammy at the corner deli or funny Uncle Harry who wasn't really daddys uncle but was treated like a member of the family. New York wasn't different in the *70s. It was real life, as always.
People get away with dangerous choices until the day they don't. Many crimes are crimes of opportunity. When the opportunity is not there, the potential perpetrator doesn't necessarily go hunting for it. One bad choice sometimes triggers the other.
Did the Patz case cause a sea change in how people behaved? Or did it remind them of what they always knew--that life is full of known and unknown dangers, and parents are supposed to have better judgment than their children? That just because children beg to do something doesn't mean parents say yes?
We live in strange times. Everyone, apparently, according to comments here, ran around alone all the time in the vast canyons of urban neighborhoods but nothing ever happened to them. At the same time, according to what seem like daily news stories, sexual predators are everywhere, in every institution frequented by children, perpetrated by those adults children are specifically taught to trust, and these predations stretch back to the childhoods of people now in advanced middle age.
There was never a time children were not at risk, even from friendly Sammy at the corner deli or funny Uncle Harry who wasn't really daddys uncle but was treated like a member of the family. New York wasn't different in the *70s. It was real life, as always.
7
I hope that this verdict brings some closure to Mr. and Mrs. Patz. I would imagine that the worst part of all of it has been the lack of a body to bury, a concrete way to say farewell to Etan. I remember when this happened. We were horrified that a small child just beginning to become independent was never going to grow up because he was probably dead. What has bothered me for years about this case is how it was handled (or not) from the beginning. If Mr. Hernandez is mentally ill and has a low I.Q. how did he get away with this for so long? And is he truly the guilty party? I understand the need to convict someone of this crime but I can't help wondering if Mr. Hernandez did it.
The other problem I have is that having a low I.Q. may mean he has no understanding of what he did, or if he did it. Americans and our judicial system do a very poor job when it comes to safeguarding the rights of handicapped people, especially mentally handicapped people, whether it's intelligence, emotional, or a combination of both. We characterize a woman killing her abusive husband as a violent sociopath or cold blooded murderer when she may be protecting herself. It's things like this that give one pause to wonder about Mr. Hernandez's conviction.
The other problem I have is that having a low I.Q. may mean he has no understanding of what he did, or if he did it. Americans and our judicial system do a very poor job when it comes to safeguarding the rights of handicapped people, especially mentally handicapped people, whether it's intelligence, emotional, or a combination of both. We characterize a woman killing her abusive husband as a violent sociopath or cold blooded murderer when she may be protecting herself. It's things like this that give one pause to wonder about Mr. Hernandez's conviction.
9
All rapists, deviants and murderers are in one way or another mentally handicapped - as well emotionally and morally missing key components of even a baseline sentient creature.
1
Comment-ers: Brian, Amy, Nancy & Anne; mention Mr Ramos as being implicated somehow in Etan's Disappearance. The NYT article also mentioned that Mr Hernandez's Lawyers suggested possible involvement on behalf of Mr. Ramos. Was this the same Mr. Ramos that the Patz family sued in a Civil Case? A case that I believe the Patz Family Won. What do the Patz family say now about Ramos? I am not taking sides here. Nor am I out to embarrass the Patz family. I feel for their lost. It will be interesting to read the Trial Transcript to see how the Parties in the Criminal Trial handled this. Being an Attorney (albeit a Patent Attorney) I am familiar w/ the Rules of Evidence. Yet it would be an "side-bar" for the NYT to consider writing about
7
We needed to convict someone of Etan's murder! Who cares if the accused is really guilty or innocent, as long as we convict someone, the case will be closed.
Therefore, an unscrupulous DA will be able to go and perhaps convict other people. Maybe that DA will get a real criminal someday and society will be safer.
Therefore, an unscrupulous DA will be able to go and perhaps convict other people. Maybe that DA will get a real criminal someday and society will be safer.
10
Etan disappeared the day I moved to NYC. My heart and soul go out to his parents who likely will never know the truth about the fate of their child. If I type it over and over, will the pain lessen? No. I have cried for this child and I am so so sorry.
11
The one thing I have not heard explained is why Hernandez killed Etan Patz. Have I missed something in the coverage?
4
Many men and even boys kill simply because they can - thrill killers - for the ego, power over a helpless/vulnerable creature and to see if they can get away with it.
3
It is reasonable to keep asking questions, when a mentally-defective man never accused of any other crime is convicted with no evidence except his *confession.* In order to try him, the civil judgment won by the Patz family against a previous suspect had to be vacated.
It is reasonable to observe that the world has always been a dangerous and unpredictable place; that Etan Patz was not the first child to be abducted and murdered in daylight hours, while doing nothing more dangerous, apparently, than being a child. As others have noted already, the disappearances of white middle-class children arouse the emotions of the nation while other children just remain disappeared and unremembered except by their own families.
I doubt that most of the people here claiming how they walked themselves to school in kindergarten and first grade were walking along Manhattan streets with no companions. At least one NY Times article has described the area from which Etan disappeared as a *gritty SoHo neighborhood.* As a mother I*d consider *gritty* a good synonym for *unsafe for unaccompanied children.* The bodega Etan was heading for has been described in the NY Times in ways that do not suggest a clientele primarily of small unaccompanied children.
As a New Yorker almost all my life, I remember the 70s, and the times I was attacked or threatened, all in broad daylight, on busy streets or subway passages, and to think that the Patz case alone was a great turning point is nonsense.
It is reasonable to observe that the world has always been a dangerous and unpredictable place; that Etan Patz was not the first child to be abducted and murdered in daylight hours, while doing nothing more dangerous, apparently, than being a child. As others have noted already, the disappearances of white middle-class children arouse the emotions of the nation while other children just remain disappeared and unremembered except by their own families.
I doubt that most of the people here claiming how they walked themselves to school in kindergarten and first grade were walking along Manhattan streets with no companions. At least one NY Times article has described the area from which Etan disappeared as a *gritty SoHo neighborhood.* As a mother I*d consider *gritty* a good synonym for *unsafe for unaccompanied children.* The bodega Etan was heading for has been described in the NY Times in ways that do not suggest a clientele primarily of small unaccompanied children.
As a New Yorker almost all my life, I remember the 70s, and the times I was attacked or threatened, all in broad daylight, on busy streets or subway passages, and to think that the Patz case alone was a great turning point is nonsense.
6
More proof that a headline hunting prosecutor in a high profile case will be able to obtain a conviction with little or no evidence other than an induced "confession" from a mentally ill suspect.
13
I lived in NYC when this happened. I remember the posters all over, and of course reading about it in the paper. I recall feeling deeply haunted by it, even though I wasn't in danger and I didn't have kids. Any child abduction is tragic but for some reason this really grabbed me.
I've thought about the case from time to time over the years, and have never lost that haunted feeling. I don't know if this guy really is guilty. So much evidence pointed to Jose Ramos as the guilty party. And there was something about the way this case was reopened by Vance that struck me as being highly political in nature.
In the end, I don't know if it matters, unless it brings a measure of peace to the Patz family and those who knew Etan. Regardless, I hope Etan's suffering was brief and that he rests in peace for eternity knowing how much he was loved and continues to be missed.
I've thought about the case from time to time over the years, and have never lost that haunted feeling. I don't know if this guy really is guilty. So much evidence pointed to Jose Ramos as the guilty party. And there was something about the way this case was reopened by Vance that struck me as being highly political in nature.
In the end, I don't know if it matters, unless it brings a measure of peace to the Patz family and those who knew Etan. Regardless, I hope Etan's suffering was brief and that he rests in peace for eternity knowing how much he was loved and continues to be missed.
8
I think it does matter though, if a person has been wrongfully convicted. In spite of the verdict there is still a sense of mystery about what happened.
6
I am happy for this family but there is never closure. You will always deal with this death every day . Until you live with a loss like this no one should question how someone feels. Plus during the trial you relive that time day over and over again. So much love for these parents. I lived with a death (killing) of my sister for 20 plus years without justice. God bless everyone that solve these cases.
2
I hope Etan's family can now find some measure of peace. I feel so sad for them.
2
It is absolutely shameful the comments made about the responsibility of Ethan's parents in this tragedy. It chills me. I was born and raised in NY. My cousin was Peter Weinberger. The baby who was the first kidnap victim after the sensational Lindberghs case. My aunt Betty put him outside in his carriage to sleep in 1956. They were willing to pay money but The Daily News printed the story and Angelo LaMarca never showed up. Everyone of my family members were stricken for the rest of their lives. I was a baby in 1956. We all had FBI protection. I found out about this family tragedy by chance. I was at my grandmother's and was in her bedroom. I found newspaper articles hidden. I went to her with them. She turned white, dropped the pan she was holding and told me to "put that away". Still stricken. I believe that my own mother was so traumatized over this loss that if she could've put me in a cage to protect me from life she would have. When Ethan went missing I was in NYC and got on my bike myself to search the streets looking. I thought of Peter, the life of a baby, robbed. No one understood why he just didn't leave him on the street--why let him die alone in the woods!!!
Don't think you know what these parents feel. You don't! Betty and Morris never found peace. It affected their other children forever! This crime will never wash away. I myself am a mother of two. At 62 I will never forget the white face or the silence. Family secrets or the pain.
Don't think you know what these parents feel. You don't! Betty and Morris never found peace. It affected their other children forever! This crime will never wash away. I myself am a mother of two. At 62 I will never forget the white face or the silence. Family secrets or the pain.
18
I wonder what would have happened in this case if the ethnic sectarian color national origin of the perpetrator and the victim were reversed.
How many black and brown kid homicides are successfully investigated and prosecuted?
How many black and brown kid homicides are successfully investigated and prosecuted?
7
Maybe he did. Maybe he didn't. We'll never know for sure. The result is anything but sure. But at least its a result.
That's all that can be said.
No winner. One loser, Etan.
A huge mess.
That's all that can be said.
No winner. One loser, Etan.
A huge mess.
5
any trial 25+ years after the crime without a smoking gun makes me queasy. A bit like the Kennedy cousin/Martha Moxely murder trial. Scrutinized for more than 25 years and at least 4 plausible suspects. Then with no substantive new evidence they try one of those 4 and convict. The victim's family "gets closure" but my concern would be just creating yet another innocent victim. After 25 years and absent a smoking gun I think best to just forget it.
13
I wonder - Did he have an attorney present during this extensive questioning?
8
Answer to Skater242. You are concerned about whether Hernandez had an attorney during the interviews? Who was there to protect Etan Patz from this henious and predatory criminal?
3
I am not defending Hernandez by any stretch. I am just saying that according to reports, Hernandez was questioned for over 24 hrs straight at one point.
The cops knew he was mentally deficient and questioned him anyway and, to my knowledge, without legal representation. They could have him admit to killing JFK if they wanted to.
The cops knew he was mentally deficient and questioned him anyway and, to my knowledge, without legal representation. They could have him admit to killing JFK if they wanted to.
5
No one. And no one knows who killied this child.
5
EPatz has been in my own heart ever since he vanished. I was a child then, too. He filled me with hope to be found, and then I grew up. The intermittent possibilities of answers and new news piped in from here and there. At each of those moments (even 20/20 segments), I have felt more for his parents. Maybe we should all go to stand at our local landfills, pray, and understand someone and more is right in there.
1
Did not the boys in the "Central Park Jogger " case also confess? They spent their youth in jail for a crime they did not commit while the real criminal went on to do other evil deeds.
22
In New York, you cannot convict on words alone and that is all this jury had -- words. This case never should have gone to trial, but it did and the judge should have dismissed the case after the prosecution rested.
But when he first ran for office, now DA Vance promised that he would bring closure to the Patz family, the judge wanted finality perhaps even a conviction, and the jurors didn't follow the instructions on the law.
Pedro Hernandez isn't the first person or entity accused of this crime, he's the fourth. Jose Ramos, who knew the Patz family housekeeper, Othniel Miller, and NAMBLA were all accused of kidnapping Etan and apparently the government as wrong in each of those cases.
Now with no witnesses, no physical evidence, no corroboration whatsoever, we're to believe the government got it right? Highly unlikely.
But when he first ran for office, now DA Vance promised that he would bring closure to the Patz family, the judge wanted finality perhaps even a conviction, and the jurors didn't follow the instructions on the law.
Pedro Hernandez isn't the first person or entity accused of this crime, he's the fourth. Jose Ramos, who knew the Patz family housekeeper, Othniel Miller, and NAMBLA were all accused of kidnapping Etan and apparently the government as wrong in each of those cases.
Now with no witnesses, no physical evidence, no corroboration whatsoever, we're to believe the government got it right? Highly unlikely.
14
Tragic case. No need to write nonsense and hate in these comments, people. There were 2 trials, and much detective work. The NYPD looked again at the confessed scene, and they have done due diligence. Frankly, it is believable that a small child could be killed and his body removed from the city with no one seeing it - the world of 1979 did not have the security cameras, videos on phones and density of people in NYC that exist now. Stop pretending you are an armchair detective, stop pretending that you know more about this case than those who worked it, stop vilifying. The comments section of the NY Times is not your place to spread your fantasies, your aim at inventing things. Hernandez's family suspected him for YEARS based on what he told them - thank you to those who finally spoke to authorities and got the ball rolling on the investigation. Thank you to the NYPD, who never gave up on this case, to the judge and jury and to everyone who worked on it, tried twice, there clearly was something to bring this case to trial and to finally reach a verdict. Unlike what is going on in DC now, the system in NYC worked. We are grateful for that, and we thank all who brought us to this conclusion.
13
Yes, Hernandez's family suspected him for years. But, one, he is an unreliable witness, and two, they are, as you are keen to observe about us, not police detectives. Who's projecting the fantasy of a well-oiled, objective criminal justice system? Go back to watching Law & Order. That Mariska Hargitay is hawt.
2
LD: I agree. Many NYT readers have a proclivity, as you say, to know more about some topic than the experts.
We should ask the Court Officers what they think.
We should ask the Court Officers what they think.
If the defendant committed the crime, the DA now has a conviction as a bargaining tool to find out where Etan's body is buried. In exchange for the defense dropping the appeal, the DA recommends a lower sentence and the family really does get a chance at closure. I prosecuted cases in jurisdictions other than New York, where there remains room for negotiating post-trial.
2
The defendant confessed that he put Etan's body out with the trash at the bodega where he worked. Sadly, it appear highly unlikely that his body will ever be located.
7
Gopher1, I'm not sure you're familiar with the case... or logic. If Hernandez murdered Etan he was not compelled to bury Etan's body. There are other ways to dispose of bodies. And if he did not murder Etan he would not have any knowledge of Etan's remains' whereabouts.
For those who believe they can rely credulously on a prosecutor's case I submit gopher1's comment as defense Exhibit A.
For those who believe they can rely credulously on a prosecutor's case I submit gopher1's comment as defense Exhibit A.
4
I said, "IF...." . In a recent case in Minnesota solving a long term missing child case the defendant cut a deal on other charges upon the condition of disclosing the location of the body. He can't be compelled to say anything but, lawyers in criminal cases use appeals to keep working the case.
Obviously, if Hernandez continues to maintain his innocence or did dispose of the boy's body with the trash at his workplace, then he has nothing to offer.
The jury sided with the district attorney. Until an appeal is heard, those are the only votes that count.
Obviously, if Hernandez continues to maintain his innocence or did dispose of the boy's body with the trash at his workplace, then he has nothing to offer.
The jury sided with the district attorney. Until an appeal is heard, those are the only votes that count.
We can all play legal arm chair experts regarding this heinous crime that took the life of Etan Patz so many years ago. But, I would be very interested to hear what John Walsh has to opine regarding this conviction. After all, his son Adam was kidnapped and murdered. He has done so much to help Americans protect our children over the years. Like this case, Otis Toole confessed to having killed Adam, but he was never formally charged and this case was never adjudicated in a court of law. Instead Toole died in prison from cirrhosis of the liver in September 1996. These children should never be forgotten and my continued prayers go out to their families.
@MaryMac:
Toole confessed to Walsh's murder only to recant --this confession and a few score more; several times. It's a lifer's game sometimes called "yanking their chains". He did it to send homicide detectives on a merry chase.
He had nothing to loseand I'm sure it amused him.
Serial killers aren't stupid. Warped, twisted, cruel, demented -- yes. They are psychopaths. Many remember their victims fondly -- as trophies -- why many keep personal items taken from them. Souvenirs. That can trip them up. Dahmer, for example, kept some victims' body parts in his refrigerator, and ate their flesh.
Hernandez, to my knowledge, did none of that.
He also doesn't strike me as having a psychopathic personality, in part because he isn't intelligent enough. Exceptions, of course, can be found for any basic psychological profile. But profiles exist because they describe recognizable patterns between otherwise disparate subjects. Hernandez doesn't fit.
He strikes me as damaged goods: dull, dim and delusional. Bad genes from an alcoholic or drug-abusing grandfather?
To believe that he actually killed a child barely out of his teens one must also believe he killed just one time. An unplanned, spur-of-the-moment decision done so cleverly that no one saw him do it, or saw anything amiss. So proficient he left behind no physical evidence.
That is to say, a near-dunce committed a perfect crime save for a confession that I find incredible, in the worst definition of that word.
Unlikely.
Toole confessed to Walsh's murder only to recant --this confession and a few score more; several times. It's a lifer's game sometimes called "yanking their chains". He did it to send homicide detectives on a merry chase.
He had nothing to loseand I'm sure it amused him.
Serial killers aren't stupid. Warped, twisted, cruel, demented -- yes. They are psychopaths. Many remember their victims fondly -- as trophies -- why many keep personal items taken from them. Souvenirs. That can trip them up. Dahmer, for example, kept some victims' body parts in his refrigerator, and ate their flesh.
Hernandez, to my knowledge, did none of that.
He also doesn't strike me as having a psychopathic personality, in part because he isn't intelligent enough. Exceptions, of course, can be found for any basic psychological profile. But profiles exist because they describe recognizable patterns between otherwise disparate subjects. Hernandez doesn't fit.
He strikes me as damaged goods: dull, dim and delusional. Bad genes from an alcoholic or drug-abusing grandfather?
To believe that he actually killed a child barely out of his teens one must also believe he killed just one time. An unplanned, spur-of-the-moment decision done so cleverly that no one saw him do it, or saw anything amiss. So proficient he left behind no physical evidence.
That is to say, a near-dunce committed a perfect crime save for a confession that I find incredible, in the worst definition of that word.
Unlikely.
7
John Walsh? Wasn't he the guy who with his wife was more interested in "swinging" than taking care of their kid? Who left his kid in the I believe it was Sears to play video games where the pedophiles could watch them? I'm not sure he'd be the right guy to be an expert on any of this.
Kids get hurt and even killed in a variety of circumstances, but much more frequently by their caregivers than by strangers. It is very unfortunate that this bizarre, once-in-a-blue-moon case so strongly captured the public imagination and contributed to the loss of freedom by two generations of children.
5
No physical evidence. No witness. Forty subsequent years of living as a free man with no known incidents of child molestation. An 18 year old does not murder a 6 year old boy after having presumably sexually violated him, and not go on to commit another similar crime for the next 40 years! With all the publicity, you can bet that if he'd ever done anything to a child afterwards, they would now have come forward.
They probably convicted an innocent man. He's mentally not all there, confessed to a crime he likely didn't commit. There was SO much publicity around the time of his disappearance - everyone in NYC knew all the details that were being publicized. A weak-minded person with a mental health issue could easily have imagined himself into feeling guilty of the crime.
Meanwhile, there is a serial child molester who had a connection to the victim, who confessed to the crime, and who was convicted of it in a civil trial. That conviction was later vacated in order to prosecute Hernandez.
The judge should vacate this conviction. There is no evidence, other than the confession of a mentally deficient and mentally ill man with 40 subsequent years of never having committed a similar crime.
They probably convicted an innocent man. He's mentally not all there, confessed to a crime he likely didn't commit. There was SO much publicity around the time of his disappearance - everyone in NYC knew all the details that were being publicized. A weak-minded person with a mental health issue could easily have imagined himself into feeling guilty of the crime.
Meanwhile, there is a serial child molester who had a connection to the victim, who confessed to the crime, and who was convicted of it in a civil trial. That conviction was later vacated in order to prosecute Hernandez.
The judge should vacate this conviction. There is no evidence, other than the confession of a mentally deficient and mentally ill man with 40 subsequent years of never having committed a similar crime.
19
Jury of peers and a verdict. Done.
4
Have you ever been called to jury duty and looked around at - ahem - your peers? Scary.
4
..and done badly.
2
True peers would have been of equal intelligence and poverty levels. Or at least sympathetic to such traits and aspects.
Hernandez, who is mentally ill and dimwitted, carried out this heinous, cold-blooded act (including disposing of the body), without leaving any evidence, without being witnessed by anybody, or without raising any suspicions at the time? Additionally, he's never been connected to any other crime. Finally, Hernandez didn't offer a motive.
11
The takeaway from this case and so many others is simple: there are a lot of nuts and perverts out there folks. Need to protect yourselves, and your kids. What's frustrating is the mindless, knee jerk opposition from liberals to Trump's initiative to get criminal aliens off our streets. A portion of those ICE picked up already were convicted sex offenders and predators of children.
4
Please don't bring politics into this!
1
This trial doesn't seem quite right.....I fear the prosecutor was just desperate to close this case so he found a mentally unstable scapegoat.
8
How can we be certain Pedro Hernandez is the actual culprit? Was his confession coerced? There is more to this story than meets the eye.
8
Although I have serious doubts that this individual is the killer, if he wants to take the fall, and it gives him some comfort to provide the same for Etan's family than so be it. This case is tragic and there are NO winners - hopefully the Patz's can now find some peace and enjoy what little time they have left on this planet.
1
If I were the parents, I'd feel no sigh of relief. There is no evidence that this man did it beyond a confession that contained information readily available in the press and on TV since the poor child was abducted. Mental illness can cause very detailed delusions that are filled with facts from the outside. His deep religiosity could have played a part in filling him with guilt for something that he thought he did but did not do in reality. The prosecution just wanted to stop hearing about the case. There was a case in California of a mentally ill man arrested for being a serial killer. He gave and signed a long detailed written confession (though he was totally illiterate). The prosecutors were going for the death penalty. The real serial killer had just moved on to another area. He killed again while the innocent mentally ill, illiterate man was in prison. So eventually he was exonerated. The prosecutors would have willingly killed an innocent man because they could trick him into confessing and signing a confession he couldn't read. Of course, they didn't learn their lesson and went for the death penalty with the second suspect too. Get the case off of your desk regardless of catching the right guy. Ramos was a much more likely suspect in this case than this man. The truth is that too much time has passed and no hard evidence was found at the time. Thanks to Ronald Reagan for destroying the mental health treatment system so that these things happen.
9
Reagan wasn't the President in 1979 when Etan disappeared; he wasn't sworn into office until 1981. Prior to that he was governor of California, not New York where this occurred.
While I agree that not nearly enough is done in this country for those suffering from mental illness and disorders, you factually can not lay criticism for this crime at Reagan.
I also think that it is impossible to say that Hernandez is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Without remains or physical evidence, nor any eyewitnesses, conviction based on a questionable confession almost 40 years after the disappearance from someone with a low IQ and documented mental health issues is troubling.
While I agree that not nearly enough is done in this country for those suffering from mental illness and disorders, you factually can not lay criticism for this crime at Reagan.
I also think that it is impossible to say that Hernandez is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Without remains or physical evidence, nor any eyewitnesses, conviction based on a questionable confession almost 40 years after the disappearance from someone with a low IQ and documented mental health issues is troubling.
12
President Reagan was sworn into office in Jan, 1981. Prior to that he was governor of California, not New York. The disappearance and assumed murder of Etan Patz took place in 1979 in New York. To try to make a connection between Reagan's policies and this case is factually incorrect.
That said, I do agree that not nearly enough is done on in this country to finance and support treatment for individuals with mental health disorders.
Regarding the verdict in this case, I personally question that the prosecution proved their case beyond a reasonable doubt. The victim has never been located, there was zero physical evidence, and no eyewitnesses. All they had to build their case on was the confession, almost 40 years after the disappearance, of a man with a documented low IQ and mental disorder. Is it possible that he committed the kidnapping and assumed murder, yes. But proven beyond reasonable doubt, no.
I can't help but compare this case to another cold case, that of Jacob Wetterling. Last year, more than 25 years after his kidnapping, his murderer was convicted in a Minnesota court. However in that case, the perpetrator led law enforcement to the remains. There was zero reasonable doubt that the man convicted of the crime was in fact guilty, because the case was bolstered by physical evidence. Sadly, there is none in Etan's case.
That said, I do agree that not nearly enough is done on in this country to finance and support treatment for individuals with mental health disorders.
Regarding the verdict in this case, I personally question that the prosecution proved their case beyond a reasonable doubt. The victim has never been located, there was zero physical evidence, and no eyewitnesses. All they had to build their case on was the confession, almost 40 years after the disappearance, of a man with a documented low IQ and mental disorder. Is it possible that he committed the kidnapping and assumed murder, yes. But proven beyond reasonable doubt, no.
I can't help but compare this case to another cold case, that of Jacob Wetterling. Last year, more than 25 years after his kidnapping, his murderer was convicted in a Minnesota court. However in that case, the perpetrator led law enforcement to the remains. There was zero reasonable doubt that the man convicted of the crime was in fact guilty, because the case was bolstered by physical evidence. Sadly, there is none in Etan's case.
1
Although I have serious doubts that Mr Hernandez is the killer, if it gives him comfort to provide the same to the Patz family than so be it. This is a tragic case and there will be NO winners. Hopefully Mr Hernandez's conviction will bring some level of peace to the Patz's and allow them to enjoy whatever time they have left on this planet
5
But how is that fair to Mr. Hernandez, whose only crime may be to be mentally ill?
1
I feel like we should retire the word "closure." It doesn't exist; it's a fictional construct, and a destructive one. In the case of a murder, it can just amplify the original body count, because one can throw away one's entire life in a fruitless search for it, which in turn has a toxic effect on the surrounding community.
Closure should not be confused with justice. The point of the criminal justice system is to demonstrate not only the power of the state to uphold its laws, but also the values of the state. Its complexity and high bar for resolution is a feature, not a bug. It's a greater injustice to imprison the innocent than to let the guilty walk free; if you don't believe that, you might want to ponder the meaning of the last six words of the Pledge of Allegiance.
Justice cannot right every wrong or make victims whole. It cannot tend to our emotional and psychological needs following loss and trauma. Trying to wring those things out of a courtroom is a dangerous folly.
It is not a triumph of justice to punish a mentally ill man, with no physical evidence linking him to the crime, 38 years after the fact. And it certainly won't bring "closure."
We grieve; we incorporate that grief into our being; we carry on even while the wound remains. That wound would remain even if the dead came back to life; we can't undo the experience of loss. There is no "closure" - stop looking for it. And no one involved in the administering of justice has any business uttering that word.
Closure should not be confused with justice. The point of the criminal justice system is to demonstrate not only the power of the state to uphold its laws, but also the values of the state. Its complexity and high bar for resolution is a feature, not a bug. It's a greater injustice to imprison the innocent than to let the guilty walk free; if you don't believe that, you might want to ponder the meaning of the last six words of the Pledge of Allegiance.
Justice cannot right every wrong or make victims whole. It cannot tend to our emotional and psychological needs following loss and trauma. Trying to wring those things out of a courtroom is a dangerous folly.
It is not a triumph of justice to punish a mentally ill man, with no physical evidence linking him to the crime, 38 years after the fact. And it certainly won't bring "closure."
We grieve; we incorporate that grief into our being; we carry on even while the wound remains. That wound would remain even if the dead came back to life; we can't undo the experience of loss. There is no "closure" - stop looking for it. And no one involved in the administering of justice has any business uttering that word.
16
Agreed! "Closure" is one of those words that has come into vogue for some reason and has been applied to just about every stress related situation.
No parent EVER gets over the death of a child. Not even those that occur from natural causes rather than the heinous way this little boy died. The parents may not wear their grief on their sleeves everyday and, by necessity, they must get on with their lives. But has for closure.....never!!!
No parent EVER gets over the death of a child. Not even those that occur from natural causes rather than the heinous way this little boy died. The parents may not wear their grief on their sleeves everyday and, by necessity, they must get on with their lives. But has for closure.....never!!!
1
I agree. A verdict should be about justice and upholding the rule of law, not mythical closure.
Is it a good idea to print the jurors' photographs in a national newspaper?!!
5
I have the sinking feeling--and always have--that Hernandez didn't do it. To this day, I am pretty sure it was the babysitter's boyfriend--the creepy guy with the beard.
It's always sad to see justice deferred in the name of political expediency.
Hernandez didn't do it. And, most sadly, the body will never be found.
It's always sad to see justice deferred in the name of political expediency.
Hernandez didn't do it. And, most sadly, the body will never be found.
11
Curious to see what happens with him. Wasn't he found civilly liable years ago?
1
This was such a horrible crime. I hope they got the right person as I did not watch the trial and know nothing about the evidence other than what I have read for years in the papers about the case. So difficult for everyone.
Now if they can find his body so his parents can have some peace. It is horrific for a child to disappear and never be found.
The person who killed Etan should die. Just make sure he's the killer. People who oppose the death penalty have no idea what that child went through before he died. The children usually cry out for their parents before the killer finishes the torture.
Now if they can find his body so his parents can have some peace. It is horrific for a child to disappear and never be found.
The person who killed Etan should die. Just make sure he's the killer. People who oppose the death penalty have no idea what that child went through before he died. The children usually cry out for their parents before the killer finishes the torture.
It does seem as though they "bludgeoned" the confession out of him. I suspect the mistrial itself was manufactured to avoid double jeopardy. To me, many of the prosecutors don't much represent the people as they do the police. This causes a subtle shift in the burden. Rather than the presumption of innocence, the Police oriented prosecutors proceed from the law enforcement view that everyone is guilty and must prove innocence. A prosecutor that works on behalf of the people allows, albeit to a limited degree, the presumption of innocence. Why does this matter? Because it always seemed that Hernandez was presumed guilty but there just wasn't any real evidence because of the passage of time. As a result the case looks and feels manufactured because possibly it was.
10
Remember the Central Park 5.
They confessed.
But they were innocent.
They confessed.
But they were innocent.
33
I have a lot of respect for Cy Vance Jr and I am sorry to see him sink this low.
Twice.
This was a show trial manufactured to satisfy the longings generated by the coming 40 year anniversary to finally "bring closure". Why not "bring the truth, and justice"? Results-driven trial, imho.
Twice.
This was a show trial manufactured to satisfy the longings generated by the coming 40 year anniversary to finally "bring closure". Why not "bring the truth, and justice"? Results-driven trial, imho.
21
Not as low as the murderer, however.
Possibly but that's an assumption.
On what grounds does that seem factual, even if plausable?
On what grounds does that seem factual, even if plausable?
From the first minute I read this story, it was obvious that this delusional man had nothing to with this. The boy's babysitter had a "boyfriend" who was a pedophile. Pedro had nothing, no evidence, only a story that made no sense. This is very unfortunate.
22
We were not in the courtroom though. We were not the man's brother (a person of character) who felt his brother could be responsible. If the evidence was there on the other person of interest, this trial would not have happened, IMHO.
1
Given the confession to many family members over the years, and to police, the trophy photo from the missing flyer he held on to for years, found by his wife, and his age at the time of the disappearance...he was prime age for on set of mental illness and sex crimes...he stll cannot face that this was a sex crime..but we all know it was. He left his job days later and tried to put it behind him, but he did confess over and over again with details that only the last person to see him alive could have known. Yes, the babysitters boyfriend is a convicted child rapist, but he could have had access anytime, he did not need to hang out at 8 am or so on the off chance that Etan would finally walk to school on his own that one day...I hope the families, both of them can have some closure.
9
I read about the Patz case in the NY-Times in 1979 in California. Sad case. I grieved for the parents then and still do. I can't imagine a greater, more devastating tragedy.
My theory about the Patz case at that time, based on nothing more than some hunches arising from Californians' brush with the Manson Family's depredations (a long series of undiscovered serial murders that went on at least several years before "Helter Skelter"), was that the little boy encountered a ghoul, someone who randomly, periodically kills complete strangers if circumstances allow him, or her, to do it unnoticed and get away. Not ordinary criminals who become serial killers, like Richard Speck.
Theodore Bundy was a ghoul. So was Richard "The Iceman" Kuklinski. And Aileen Carol Wuornos.
They are intelligent, some even attractive and charming. So nondescript they do not attract attention. Cunning and observant, yet quietly calculating, intent on adding to their score, their kills. They hunt people. Nothing is sacred. The thrill of the kill itself is central to their existence.
Their crimes fall into the "near-perfect" category because two of the three elements in the suspect triad ("detectable motive, method and opportunity") are missing. In the Patz boy's case it's worse because all three are absent. Detectives had nothing to detect, not even a body.
Thirty-eight years on I suspect the perpetrator is still alive, still out there, living quietly, preying quietly -- killing, the victims missing.
My theory about the Patz case at that time, based on nothing more than some hunches arising from Californians' brush with the Manson Family's depredations (a long series of undiscovered serial murders that went on at least several years before "Helter Skelter"), was that the little boy encountered a ghoul, someone who randomly, periodically kills complete strangers if circumstances allow him, or her, to do it unnoticed and get away. Not ordinary criminals who become serial killers, like Richard Speck.
Theodore Bundy was a ghoul. So was Richard "The Iceman" Kuklinski. And Aileen Carol Wuornos.
They are intelligent, some even attractive and charming. So nondescript they do not attract attention. Cunning and observant, yet quietly calculating, intent on adding to their score, their kills. They hunt people. Nothing is sacred. The thrill of the kill itself is central to their existence.
Their crimes fall into the "near-perfect" category because two of the three elements in the suspect triad ("detectable motive, method and opportunity") are missing. In the Patz boy's case it's worse because all three are absent. Detectives had nothing to detect, not even a body.
Thirty-eight years on I suspect the perpetrator is still alive, still out there, living quietly, preying quietly -- killing, the victims missing.
10
Possible yet seems more reaching than the law finally, with a big assist from the convicted man's brother, did its job.
2
Sometimes siblings do not like each other a lot.
1
This is a bizarre case. As far as anyone can recall it's the first time someone without any accusations of child molestation much less murder who wasn't a relative or close acquaintance of the murdered child is supposed to have killed a child.
And as someone who attended some of the testimony in the first trial it appears that the psychiatrists for the defense seemed to overlook the defendant's heavy cocaine use as a possible reason for a possible false confession. Drug users, even after they have ceased using the drugs, can have difficulty at times determining reality.
And as someone who attended some of the testimony in the first trial it appears that the psychiatrists for the defense seemed to overlook the defendant's heavy cocaine use as a possible reason for a possible false confession. Drug users, even after they have ceased using the drugs, can have difficulty at times determining reality.
11
The only thing that differentiates this case from the many, many cases of child molestations and disappearance, without any suspicion of it having been committed by a relative or close acquaintance, is that THIS case was the first to be hugely publicized.
The crime of child molestation and murder by a stranger has been going on forever - it's just that beforehand, nobody talked about it much. Certainly, it wasn't front page news for years afterwards, as this one was.
The crime of child molestation and murder by a stranger has been going on forever - it's just that beforehand, nobody talked about it much. Certainly, it wasn't front page news for years afterwards, as this one was.
What kind of parents allows a 6 year old wait for his school bus alone in the (any ) city? Though long overdue, it's obvious that murderer deserves the death penalty.
3
I have to disagree. It was not uncommon in the 1970s for children to go to school unaccompanied. I walked to school on my own starting in kindergarten -- in 1973. And that was in upper manhattan, certainly no "safer" than SOHO at the time.
Terrible crimes against children are horrific, but they are nothing new (there were a series of rapes/murders of boys in my neighbourhood in the early 70's). What was new about the Patz case is that he was white, and his disappearance sparked a huge amount of media coverage. That coverage, which was echoed and amplified in subsequent missing children cases did indeed contribute to a culture of "stranger danger" and the accompanying need to supervise children much more closely than has been normal in the past.
Today a 6 year old going to school on his own is very unusual, then it was not. And this change in attitudes is one of the consequences of this sad case.
Terrible crimes against children are horrific, but they are nothing new (there were a series of rapes/murders of boys in my neighbourhood in the early 70's). What was new about the Patz case is that he was white, and his disappearance sparked a huge amount of media coverage. That coverage, which was echoed and amplified in subsequent missing children cases did indeed contribute to a culture of "stranger danger" and the accompanying need to supervise children much more closely than has been normal in the past.
Today a 6 year old going to school on his own is very unusual, then it was not. And this change in attitudes is one of the consequences of this sad case.
7
I grew up in the 60s/70s in New York and let me tell you my parents and our neighbors would NEVER let us at six years old walk anywhere alone, let alone get on a bus by ourselves. We had to be with a parent or older siblings AND we had to hold hands. When playing on the block, it was different - there were dozens of us and always several moms watching from their windows unbeknownst to us until there was a cry of [NAME], KNOCK IT OFF.
2
I'm deeply sorry for the Patz family and their hideous loss. But to say that this case influenced the way parents oversee their children is overstated. I'm sorry, but even back in my own long-ago childhood when kids had a lot more freedom than they do today, I never heard of *anyone* letting a six-year-old walk to school *alone*! If a parent couldn't take them - and many couldn't - they'd walk with a group of other kids, or with a neighbor, but not alone. My first reaction to the initial news reports on this case was to wonder who in their right mind would let a child that young walk to school on their own.
21
This statement is unfair to the Patz's. This was a different time. Albeit the Patz's grew up in the 1950's when we all were encouraged by our parents to be independent at a young age. I walked back and forth to school at Etan's age alone. Bad stuff just didn't happen to kids then and up until Etan's disappearance allowed my own little guy to do the same. My grandkids now don't walk anywhere on their own.
6
At age 6, my mother took the city bus to and from school alone in Newark, NJ in the late '40s. She walked home alone from the bus stop to an empty apartment because her mother worked (father was deceased). (Now you've heard of someone.)
10
I, and every other child I knew, walked back and forth to school every day, starting in kindergarten at Mackay School in Tenafly, NJ. I started school in 1968.
11
In 1888, I decided to BOLT with my 5year old son from a public school on the UWS. I was appalled at the TOTAL LACK OF SECURITY. I freely roamed the halls, and even sat in on the Kindergarten Art class with no questions asked. Everyone assumed that I belonged there, and treated me as if I were a classroom aide. There were no doors on the boy's bathroom stalls (yes, I checked the boys bathroom out) and was told by the belligerent principal that it was public school policy to remove all the stall doors in the boys bathroom. My son was crying by noon. I whispered in his ear that we were "moving to Grandma's world!" We did move to a charming town with a ton of visible police, parents, and caregivers. The schools all called by 9am if the parent had failed to state the child would be absent. No such thing as waiting for a kidnapping report! Etan Patz was a gorgeous, sweet little boy, and much like my own little boy. I was on a 5th Ave bus the day he disappeared, and every passenger was horrified. We were in tears. His disappearance has haunted all of us, and I still grieve for his parents. Most of all, I would like the public to know that after two days, we never returned to that public school on the UWS. I never informed the school that we were MOVING OUT OF THE CITY & STATE because of the absence of security in that school. The security guards simply stood at the front door, and said;" sign in." So, let's see. That three day "call the home" rule has turned into 29 years.
10
A five-month trial and nine days of deliberations focused on the murder of a young boy; as someone who has spent too much time in a courtroom, my heart goes out and my kudos go to these awesome jurors who had to sit through, sift through, and deal with this brutality. I hope none of them lost their jobs for needing five full months of what must have been an agonizing experience.
I was touched by the mention of Etan Patz's mom not being in the courtroom and his dad sitting on a pillow. In these 40 years, they've aged; they sound elderly. My heart to them.
I grew up in the city and was 12 at the time. For me, this case is indelible. I recall the massive amount of media and the relentless and strong parents.
I'm not much of a believer in "justice," but I do hope they feel peace. Good thoughts to all who have suffered.
And let's remember that the jury knows more than we do and clearly did not take this lightly. Let's not be so quick to doubt them.
I was touched by the mention of Etan Patz's mom not being in the courtroom and his dad sitting on a pillow. In these 40 years, they've aged; they sound elderly. My heart to them.
I grew up in the city and was 12 at the time. For me, this case is indelible. I recall the massive amount of media and the relentless and strong parents.
I'm not much of a believer in "justice," but I do hope they feel peace. Good thoughts to all who have suffered.
And let's remember that the jury knows more than we do and clearly did not take this lightly. Let's not be so quick to doubt them.
29
Wise words.
10
Its not that we doubt the jury so much as we question the proceedings. I'm sure the jury did their level best. I am however skeptical of the outcome based upon the fact that the entire case was built on the words of an admittedly delusional person - a nothing else.
4
Some of the comments here are confusing. The confessions he made over the years were not "coerced". So that adds to the weight of the confession he gave to the police. Yes, the earlier ones might have been fantasies and later later ones a result of coercion, but I can't think of a precedent for that. There have been several cases in recent years where the police put people away for false confessions, costing taxpayers millions. However they didn't confess voluntarily to others earlier, as far as I know.
13
"Coercion" is an emotional perception borne of fear.
Unless you sit in an interrogatee's chair and are subjected to the "third degree", interrogated hour-after-hour for days on-end hungry, thirsty and very, very tired you cannot know what coercion is or how it feels.
I liken it to a trapped animal gnawing off its own foot to escape the snare.
Unless you sit in an interrogatee's chair and are subjected to the "third degree", interrogated hour-after-hour for days on-end hungry, thirsty and very, very tired you cannot know what coercion is or how it feels.
I liken it to a trapped animal gnawing off its own foot to escape the snare.
5
I was in 5th grade at PS 3 when Etan, a kindergardener at the school, went missing. I cannot express how profoundly this changed my perception of safety as a young person and my concern for my own children as a mother. The world changed overnight from a safe place to a dangerous one and it has never gone back. This conviction, whether not it is upheld, doesn't change a thing in that regard. May Etan Patz rest in peace.
58
Dear March Gallagher,
I was at PS 3 Annex too, now it's PS 234, and I think it was only the presumption of safety that changed. Things were never actually safe, we just thought they were before this kidnapping. In reality, life is never safe.
Also if you're the kid who I made fun of a few times at recess, sorry about that, we were all uncompassionate at that age.
I was at PS 3 Annex too, now it's PS 234, and I think it was only the presumption of safety that changed. Things were never actually safe, we just thought they were before this kidnapping. In reality, life is never safe.
Also if you're the kid who I made fun of a few times at recess, sorry about that, we were all uncompassionate at that age.
2
I still believe the killer is out there. This is nothing more than a desperate attempt by the state and NYPD to close a 40 year old high-profile cold case.
21
I would never have been convicted of this crime. I am white, well-educated, and have money. Pedro Hernandez had none of these things. Many are rotting in prison today for crimes they didn't commit. I hope Mr. Hernandez isn't one of them.
23
I HOPE it is also because you didn't do it.
2
I was young and new to New York when this happened. I will never forget Etan's sweet face and the heartbreak we all felt for this boy and his parents. I am middle aged now like Etan's parents. And I'm now a parent myself. I grieve for his parents still. I hope this guy is the one who did it and that justice in some small measure has been served. This won't bring back Etan, but if this conviction gives his pàrents some peace, I am thankful. I don't think any of us living here at that time will ever truly get over the tragic loss of Etan and the look of pain in his mother and father's eyes.
15
Is it solved? It*s not closed yet, with appeals to come.
We have a long history in this country of responsible jurors handing down a verdict that fails to be correct.
We really still do not know what happened. It*s not out of the realm of possibility that this mentally-handicapped man was as obsessed with this tragedy as the rest of us, to a greater or lesser degree.
I know it is considered brutally incorrect to suggest that parents making a terrible decision that aligned with their philosophy of childrearing should have paid so terribly. When I became a parent myself, a little over a decade after Etan disappeared, many people--some parents, some not--considered me overprotective. I was astonished by the carelessness many people brought to parenting--even those who claimed, loudly and often, to be devoted to their children.
A six-year-old is still a very little boy. There is a difference between walking to school in Manhattan, and walking to school in neighborhoods of private houses and apt. building with sitting areas where mothers and grandmothers know who belongs on their street and who might not. It is a parent*s job to tell a child he or she is too young to be walking alone--even if people are everywhere.
In a perfect world we would all be safe, even if drunk out of our skulls, even if we are barely dressed and walking down the street at three in the morning, even if we are an innocent little child on his way to school by himself.
We have a long history in this country of responsible jurors handing down a verdict that fails to be correct.
We really still do not know what happened. It*s not out of the realm of possibility that this mentally-handicapped man was as obsessed with this tragedy as the rest of us, to a greater or lesser degree.
I know it is considered brutally incorrect to suggest that parents making a terrible decision that aligned with their philosophy of childrearing should have paid so terribly. When I became a parent myself, a little over a decade after Etan disappeared, many people--some parents, some not--considered me overprotective. I was astonished by the carelessness many people brought to parenting--even those who claimed, loudly and often, to be devoted to their children.
A six-year-old is still a very little boy. There is a difference between walking to school in Manhattan, and walking to school in neighborhoods of private houses and apt. building with sitting areas where mothers and grandmothers know who belongs on their street and who might not. It is a parent*s job to tell a child he or she is too young to be walking alone--even if people are everywhere.
In a perfect world we would all be safe, even if drunk out of our skulls, even if we are barely dressed and walking down the street at three in the morning, even if we are an innocent little child on his way to school by himself.
7
You state that you became a parent a decade after Etan went missing. I'm sure you know that his disappearance was one of the things that changed how children are raised in America. Before this, giving a child a little freedom would not have been considered "careless", as you phrase it. Just be glad your own children are okay, and try not to judge others.
44
PM: As a born and raised Noo Yawkuh, I can remember terrible cases from my own childhood of kidnapped and murdered children. Life in big cities has never been safe. There has always been a difference between Manhattan life and how children were raised in safer neighborhoods of Queens and Brooklyn, etc.
Etan Patz was only six years old. He was too young to walk to school himself. Many of us didn't need the terrible results to remind us of that.
The phrase *judging others* is a little over-used. For thousands of years, human societies have developed myths and fairytales by which to teach the facts of life. The forest is dangerous. Inside the pretty candy house, something bad is waiting. Now that we are so modern, we try to pretend that things are different. They are not.
Etan Patz was only six years old. He was too young to walk to school himself. Many of us didn't need the terrible results to remind us of that.
The phrase *judging others* is a little over-used. For thousands of years, human societies have developed myths and fairytales by which to teach the facts of life. The forest is dangerous. Inside the pretty candy house, something bad is waiting. Now that we are so modern, we try to pretend that things are different. They are not.
4
The seventies were a different time. I was responsible to get my 7-year-old brother to and from school, including a city bus ride, in Reykjavik, when I was 9, and we didn't speak Icelandic. When we lived in Oakland, CA we also were allowed to walk alone several blocks to the store at age 5 or 6. Everyone did it and it usually worked out fine.
10
Not sure what was wrong with my comment. But it disturbs me that it's so easy to take a highly mentally ill, not very bright man, without any money, and use him as a scapegoat for a 40 year old murder, based on no physical evidence at all. I don't believe this psychotic person was the psychotic person who killed Etan Patz. It's not going to "bring closure" to the family either, there's no way to repair that wound to the soul, and if 40 years hasn't brought closure, this is not going to do the trick.
19
What a beautiful boy, and what a loving and loyal family. They are very brave and I admire them very much for the way they have handled this matter. Love is constant and does not fade. Now some peace, perhaps, with the hope of reunion one day.
7
So beautifully said, Belle. You may have been here then, as I was, and we have felt for the parents for almost 40 years.
8
I won't question the jurors who had a lot more details and specific instructions to base their verdict. But, after reading so much about this case for years and walking through the route on Prince St, one thing I've never heard discussed is why no one else saw Etan walking towards the bus stop. The Bodega, if I remember correctly, was on West Broadway, just around the corner from Prince. The bus stop was across from the bodega. Unless Etan left home early enough where he would have been the first kid at the bus stop, how did no one else see him?
14
Etan never made it to that bus stop. He told his mother he wanted to stop at the bodega to buy a soda with his dollar bill.
5
A mail carrier saw him. Apparently, Etan hesitated at the street corner, as though making a decision. About what? We won't ever know.
Well, the prosecution says he DID make it to the bus stop, just that Hernandez got to him first before any other parents or kids arrived.
1
So this mentally impaired man was somehow also a master criminal who left no clues, in a crime scene that was searched extensively at the time?
The coercive nature of the extended interrogation makes the results unreliable. Rehearsing the defendant for hours before turning on the video camera, its a disgrace this evidence was allowed in court, and the police were not disciplined for what constitutes assault.
There is zero possibility this man committed this crime, and part of the tragedy is that the victim's family doesn't seem to care, so long as there is a pound of flesh to salve their pain.
The most shameful part of this farce are the self-aggrandizing prosecutors, straining over themselves to invent motives and fantasize imaginings, its little wonder they fall back on religious imagery since this prosecution is purely a witch hunt, inspired by a bitter ex-wife and her family, against a mentally vulnerable serial confessor to imaginary crimes.
So now we can all wait for the appeal with the sickening knowledge that one more person is sitting in jail for a crime they could not possibly have committed, except this time we even know the name of the man who probably did commit the crime.
But an offer of a grant of immunity to the true culprit in exchange for the truth, well, that might get the truth and save us from a wrongful conviction, but it wouldn't satisfy the prosecutor's need for the limelight and another trophy conviction, now would it?
Contemptible.
The coercive nature of the extended interrogation makes the results unreliable. Rehearsing the defendant for hours before turning on the video camera, its a disgrace this evidence was allowed in court, and the police were not disciplined for what constitutes assault.
There is zero possibility this man committed this crime, and part of the tragedy is that the victim's family doesn't seem to care, so long as there is a pound of flesh to salve their pain.
The most shameful part of this farce are the self-aggrandizing prosecutors, straining over themselves to invent motives and fantasize imaginings, its little wonder they fall back on religious imagery since this prosecution is purely a witch hunt, inspired by a bitter ex-wife and her family, against a mentally vulnerable serial confessor to imaginary crimes.
So now we can all wait for the appeal with the sickening knowledge that one more person is sitting in jail for a crime they could not possibly have committed, except this time we even know the name of the man who probably did commit the crime.
But an offer of a grant of immunity to the true culprit in exchange for the truth, well, that might get the truth and save us from a wrongful conviction, but it wouldn't satisfy the prosecutor's need for the limelight and another trophy conviction, now would it?
Contemptible.
21
Finally! No jury is stupid enough to believe that defense.
6
Our first of 5 kids was about a year younger than the Patz boy. My heart breaks.
We were lifelong NYers until 1975, and left the city for good. It's still dog eat dog there, and a difficult place to have little kids. Glad we got out. I always knew where every one of them was, at all times. This horrific murder changes everything.
I believe he confessed. Can any reader imagine carrying the images of what he did around? It comes out. Always. Glad for the verdict.
We were lifelong NYers until 1975, and left the city for good. It's still dog eat dog there, and a difficult place to have little kids. Glad we got out. I always knew where every one of them was, at all times. This horrific murder changes everything.
I believe he confessed. Can any reader imagine carrying the images of what he did around? It comes out. Always. Glad for the verdict.
5
"The defense also suggested that another man could have been the culprit. The man, Jose Ramos, a convicted pedophile, had a relationship with a woman who had been hired to walk Etan home from school. Prosecutors, citing a lack of evidence, dismissed the suggestion that Mr. Ramos was involved."
Lack of evidence? A convicted pedophile, he dated Etan's babysitter. That's more than they had on Hernandez.
Lack of evidence? A convicted pedophile, he dated Etan's babysitter. That's more than they had on Hernandez.
38
Etan Patz’s remains were never found, and prosecutors had no scientific evidence from crime scenes to corroborate their allegations. What they had is a story provided, decades after the events in question, by Mr. Hernandez himself, a man with no criminal record, whom evidence suggests may have a mental illness and intellectual deficiencies.
Mr. Hernandez may have been found guilty, but it is hard to take any comfort in this verdict that the guilty party has been convicted.
Mr. Hernandez may have been found guilty, but it is hard to take any comfort in this verdict that the guilty party has been convicted.
34
I remember that time, vividly. That child's face was everywhere, on posters, milk cartons, just everywhere. It was heartbreaking. How can anyone do such a thing?
26
I hope the Patz family is able to find some peace of mind. They have suffered horribly. The prosecution's case was a difficult one. My guess is the jury felt compelled to right a wrong and give the Patz family some form of justice, and the defendant presented poorly and unsympathically. The big question is whether or not the confessions of the defendant are actually what happened (he killed Etan) or, the result of coercion or fantasy. We probably won't ever know.
There is one thing in this article that stood out in my mind - when Etan did not make it to school that day, school officials did not notify his mom.
The school did not call to inquire about why the boy was not in school; clearly the mother did not call school to report he would not be attending that day, because she sent him.
Etan's mother had to call around, after school, to figure out why he hadn't come home. I wonder if school officials have, throughout these past 38 years, thought about what might have occurred had they called Mrs. Patz, after attendance had been taken in the morning, to inquire as to why Etan was not in school.
That would have been perhaps within 1 - 2 hours after Etan left home for school. We don't know whether or not he might have been found alive, had the school made that call, but it seems that at minimum, it would have increased the chances of law enforcement finding him alive, or at least finding his body (if indeed the defendant did put the boy in a plastic bag).
There is one thing in this article that stood out in my mind - when Etan did not make it to school that day, school officials did not notify his mom.
The school did not call to inquire about why the boy was not in school; clearly the mother did not call school to report he would not be attending that day, because she sent him.
Etan's mother had to call around, after school, to figure out why he hadn't come home. I wonder if school officials have, throughout these past 38 years, thought about what might have occurred had they called Mrs. Patz, after attendance had been taken in the morning, to inquire as to why Etan was not in school.
That would have been perhaps within 1 - 2 hours after Etan left home for school. We don't know whether or not he might have been found alive, had the school made that call, but it seems that at minimum, it would have increased the chances of law enforcement finding him alive, or at least finding his body (if indeed the defendant did put the boy in a plastic bag).
40
Public schools don't call the homes of every absent child. They don't have the personnel for that, and there is generally no reason. The child brings a note from his parent when he returns to school.
5
Was he in public or private school? At my daughter's public school, if a kid is out sick for 3 days or less we don't need to call and tell them, and they don't question the absence. Were they told ahead of time he was going to be coming all by himself? Otherwise my guess is they probably assumed he was home sick. A small private school might call home, but a public school never would.
5
We live in an urban area with a huge school district. Parents receive a text and/or phone call within an hour of the start of school if the child is absent and the parent didn't call to excuse them. Everything is completely automated, therefore no personnel issues. I can't imagine letting my child walk or bike to school if I wasn't alerted if they didn't show up.
1
One of the reasons so many New Yorkers have given up on our Justice system was this case which has stayed in parents memories as a cautionary tale of whether children can navigate the City without an escort. Sadly,the previous trial ended with a hung jury,one holdout. Now,going forward,let's not cling to the notion that Justice is done. The parents do not get much satisfaction in this murderer of little mental stability. The System took way too long to get to this moment,again. We can only ask what will it take to get more mentally ill potential attackers of children into treatment or protective custody. Etan Patz should be an adult enjoying his own family but sadly,is a history lesson like Kitty Genovese.
9
A teenager with no relation to the family commits this crime in broad daylight, is never even questioned by police for some 40 years and also apparently never committs any subsequent related crimes. Meanwhile there is a convicted pedophile with a relationship to the family who was a suspect from the very beginning who is never brought to trial? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
44
Thank you, it doesn't seem clear to me either why Ramos was ruled out for "lack of evidence" but a clearly mentally challenged person's dodgey confession is the basis for a conviction. My sympathy lies with the Patz family, but they don't get justice if the wrong person is imprisoned for Etan's murder.
14
I agree with you 100% something smelly about this whole thing.
8
There is a very likely place where this crime could have been committed, and a very likely way for the body to have been disposed of, with the involvement of either Ramos, or of somebody else (there was a "revolving door" of lowlifes in certain buildings around there), but the police did not have enough "local knowledge" to ask the right people the right questions.
If you do a practical, minute-by-minute analysis of the known events, it will be obvious that Hernandez could not possibly have committed this crime.
If you do a practical, minute-by-minute analysis of the known events, it will be obvious that Hernandez could not possibly have committed this crime.
4
Since when does the NY Times publish photos of the jurors? I call on the NY Times to ensure this does not again occur, to help maintain anonymity of the jurors and avoid any chilling effect on future jury pools. I, for one, would never want to be identified by name or image, while performing my civic duty.
132
Any juror who didn't want to be identified could choose not to be identified. That's how journalism works.
6
try Google search image - it's getting better all the time. Their anonymity should be protected!
It certainly looks like nine jurors willingly posed for that picture -- seeking their 15 minutes?
It's hard to fault the NYT for this.
It's hard to fault the NYT for this.
1
Ooops: make that 23 out of 24 jurors in the two trials that agreed the accused was guilty of the murder.
4
Pedro Hernandez’s conviction was not based SOLELY on his video-taped confession, but on all of the surrounding facts and circumstances…including the testimony of others to whom Hernandez himself had made incriminating statements over the years.
We must keep in mind that the prosecution must make its case beyond a REASONABLE doubt, not beyond a SHADOW of a doubt; and that they did. It takes panel of twelve REASONABLE, arm’s-lengths, independent jurors to make that determination…not those who may be out to prove a political point.
The sooner we take POLITICS out of the criminal justice system, the better off we’ll be!
We must keep in mind that the prosecution must make its case beyond a REASONABLE doubt, not beyond a SHADOW of a doubt; and that they did. It takes panel of twelve REASONABLE, arm’s-lengths, independent jurors to make that determination…not those who may be out to prove a political point.
The sooner we take POLITICS out of the criminal justice system, the better off we’ll be!
33
The man could have been obsessed with the crime and believed himself to have done it. I'm not claiming that was the case but it's very possible and not unprecedented. Mental illness. I have a relative who believed he was guilty of and suspected of committing a crime--he was bipolar and severely depressed.
4
Auntiehero...given the jury's excruciatingly difficult deliberations, I'm quite sure they took all of that into account. Moreover, remember that Mr. Hernandez was determined fully fit to stand trial, which in itself establishes the parameters for a the possibility of a "reasonable" guilty verdict. For one to assume up front that he may have "imagined" all of this upon himself...superseding all of the other surrounding circumstantial evidence...is stretching it, to say the least! Remember...we need to take politics and personal bias OUT of the criminal justice system.
1
A lot of readers in disagreement seemed to have missed some facts presented in this article: various confessions through the years of his crime to people other than the cops; when NOT u der duress of interrogation but of his own volition his retaining the missing poster; being in thw vicinity of the crime. In this age of CSI the lack of a body preserved to satisfy your preferred method of evidence wasn't possible.
Nothing will restore peace in the hearts of the Pstz familt for the loss of Etan; but at least we can close this case and say we did right by them and Etan.
Nothing will restore peace in the hearts of the Pstz familt for the loss of Etan; but at least we can close this case and say we did right by them and Etan.
21
A lot of amateur psychiatrists writing comments today. It is the defense's job to try and obscure the place. In two trials 23 out of 24 jurors, people who had listened to the evidence and concluded Mr. Hernandez was guilty. I wonder who footed the bill for Mr. Hernandez's defense. That is pretty high-powered defense team.
2
Thank you! It is not a finding of guilty beyond all doubt, but a finding of guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. This defense team is skilled in creating reasonable doubt and they still failed. His presumption of innocence is gone. He is deserving of the harshest punishment. He knows what he did...and now so do we all.
4
Why aren't You posting my NON OFFENSE comment?????
3
Mr Hernandez was low-hanging fruit. The appeals will last for a decade.
32
I do not question the guilty verdict, which, counting both trials, is what 17 out of 18 people agreed to after hearing mountains of evidence. Frankly, I always thought the one holdout from the first trial imagined himself in the heroic role of the Henry Fonda character in "12 Angry Men."
On another subject, how is that the police failed to interview Hernandez at the time of the killing? He was at work in the very bodega where the young boy was planning to buy a soda that morning. This is according to the mother's testimony. On top of which, that bodega stood in front of the stop for the bus the boy was to catch. Tons of resources expended on the case over decades, but this one obvious piece of police work was overlooked, sadly.
On another subject, how is that the police failed to interview Hernandez at the time of the killing? He was at work in the very bodega where the young boy was planning to buy a soda that morning. This is according to the mother's testimony. On top of which, that bodega stood in front of the stop for the bus the boy was to catch. Tons of resources expended on the case over decades, but this one obvious piece of police work was overlooked, sadly.
15
Good question John H. Hernandez may have left the job before they could interview him but you'd think that alone would be a red flag.
2
This man stands convicted. I sure hope for the sake of all that this man actually did this crime. Sadly, over the 71 years of my life, I have lost all confidence in our legal system getting it right.
I'm sure the jury members did their best. But a jury finding a man guilty (or not guilty for that matter) does not make it so.
As I said. I sure hope he's the one that did it!
I'm sure the jury members did their best. But a jury finding a man guilty (or not guilty for that matter) does not make it so.
As I said. I sure hope he's the one that did it!
21
Isn't time to let poor Etan Patz rest in peace already?
2
Never thought I'd see the day when you and I agreed on something, Sharon.
2
Abie Normal-- well, stranger things have happened. What everyone overlooks in this tragic case is the shameless media exploitation it has received over the course of 4 decades. Whenever there was a slow news day in New York City, all our local papers had do was put the name Etan Patz accompanied by that haunting photo of the tragic 6 year old on page one in boldface type. Worked like a charm every time.
2
Is it illegal to give a lie detector test to a mentally disturbed individual?
3
Lie detector wouldn't help in the instance of a person who was suffering a delusion. If he believes his own lie, he will pass the test.
3
Pathological liars who believe that they are telling the truth even when they repeatedly contradict themselves can easily pass a lie detector test.
2
This guy, person, made me so afraid to let my kids outside alone, not trusting anyone... I'm even afraid to let my 5 year old grandson outside for a second ... I'm so sorry for the family that they had to live this torture... it's no way to live being afraid like this... the torture you put your mind through... there are decent people out there, though... I know there are... god bless you Etan...and your family...
35
As a little kid in NY around your age when you vanished I followed your case on the local news with terror. Nearly forty years later I still think of you - only now with sadness for the tragedy of your story and all you missed out on in life. I hope there is some semblance of peace for you now and your gritty parents.
50
Heart-breaker. I cannot think of anything worse than to have lost a child (for any reason). Murder exacerbates the loss. I do not know what "perfect justice" might be (and neither do the courts). At least there is an attempt to seek some kind of justice. God knows we need to do a lot better.
16
It's upsetting to see this man convicted. I wonder what leads to these convictions based on such flimsy evidence. Does the average person not understand what "beyond a reasonable doubt" means? Or are people so eager to give this family closure that they are too willing to put aside reason in favor of passion? Disappointing day for our criminal justice system.
I hope the Patzs have found some measure of peace after their horrific loss.
I hope the Patzs have found some measure of peace after their horrific loss.
21
I'm not so sure. It appears Mr. Hernandez knew right from wrong, and the jury agreed. Also, I would think only the family of Etan Patz can feel what the endurance of 38 years of not knowing anything and having hope; then, finding horror and grief; which will be with them the rest of their days.
I lived on Sullivan Street off Prince shortly after this occurred, for a long time. I remember people talking about it.
I lived on Sullivan Street off Prince shortly after this occurred, for a long time. I remember people talking about it.
4
Look at how young the jury is. I am a High School English Teacher. I can tell you that most students I come across these days would easily fall trap to the zeitgeist's hunger for expediency of "justice." Americans these days would rather look at a phone and be fed information than to read something, hear something, experience something and then process it. The court system shall be strained in the 21st century, for sure.
7
How do you pass such judgment on the justice system while clearly knowing very little about how it actually works? Are you unaware of voir dire, during which people who "are so eager to give this family closure" would (hopefully) be weeded out by a competent defense and judge? Are you unaware of jury instructions, which occurs in every single criminal trial, during which the judge explains the concept of reasonable doubt to the jurors and ensures their comprehension before deliberations commence? Are you drawing your conclusions from personally witnessing daily trial proceedings over a five month period? Did you examine every bit of evidence and discuss it at length for multiple days with a group of other people who also examined every bit of evidence? Do you somehow have more information than the jurors or Judge Wiley (who could set aside the verdict if he determined that the defendant was convicted on insufficient evidence)? I'm not directing this comment solely at you, but for all of the armchair quarterbacks in this comment section who for some reason think that by reading a few articles in a newspaper they are more well informed on the case than the Judge and jury and can render a morally superior verdict from the comfort of their computers. I find these types of comments extremely dismissive, arrogant and disrespectful to the people who actually had to deal with this disturbing, all-consuming case on a daily basis for months/years depending on their role.
4
Many commenters don't like the fact that a semi-retarded man was convicted of these crimes. Let's remember, however, that mentally challenged folks do commit a lot of crimes. Being mentally challenged doesn't mean they didn't do it, though it may mean the intent was not there.
4
Intent is one of the elements of the crime and needs to be proven in court. Also, people are not upset that a mentally ill or disabled person was convicted. It's that he was convicted solely on his own word, with no corroborating evidence. There was serious doubt as to whether his confession was trustworthy. Absent corroborating evidence, the only just verdict would be not guilty.
16
'Scientific evidence' is not necessarily a guarantee and our trust in such creates a questionable dependency. I take solace in thoughtful deliberations.
9
I read an interesting account written by the lone man (Adam Sirois) who held out in a jury who heard this case in 2015; his top reasons included the delayed reading of the Miranda warning by police, the prolonged interrogation, and ultimately whether Hernadndez's mental illness could have led him to make a false confession. When I began reading the account I was skeptical--by the time I finished it, I wasn't so sure. It definitely shone a new angle on the story.
I have the utmost respect for all judges, jurors, lawyers, and investigators involved. But I was moved by Sirois's courage to thoroughly question the events that happened.
I have the utmost respect for all judges, jurors, lawyers, and investigators involved. But I was moved by Sirois's courage to thoroughly question the events that happened.
73
Adam Sorios was caught up in alternate facts that had NOTHING to do with the facts in 2015; he is caught up in his ego and trying to seek fame. I was a juror in the first trial.
12
That is 23 out of 24 jurors who thought he was guilty.
I have read several through and clearly explained pieces by Mr. Sorios. He comes across as thoughtful and gives clear fact based reasons for his choices. He may or may not have made a correct choice when he voted not to convict, I don't know, I was not there. One thing that does come through in his writing is that he is doesn't badmouth the other jurors or question their motives for the way they voted. Just from curiosity can you support your claim that you were on the jury with any evidence? None of the reports I have read mention a juror named Benjamin.
5
It seems that Pedro Hernandez was just the next person to be accused and tried in the media or in court for the murder? of Etan Patz. The man has emotional/mental problems, low IQ and his confession has changed over the years. That's reasonable doubt. He was expedient, not guilty.
48
How is this case "solved"?
Because the jury was able to come to a guilty verdict?
Mr Holmes?
Because the jury was able to come to a guilty verdict?
Mr Holmes?
61
Sorry. I don't buy it. I've heard a lot of people say "Thank god it's over." But is that really the attitude to have?
During the anniversary of the crime and with renewed interest in the case (and increased pressure to solve) , this guy, who is obviously mentally confess without any real motive or connection, or previous indicators of guilt.
This was sketchy from the beginning as his confession is the only concrete evidence that appears to have gotten him convicted. I'm not sure who did or didn't do it but something was off about this recent case and confession from the beginning.
During the anniversary of the crime and with renewed interest in the case (and increased pressure to solve) , this guy, who is obviously mentally confess without any real motive or connection, or previous indicators of guilt.
This was sketchy from the beginning as his confession is the only concrete evidence that appears to have gotten him convicted. I'm not sure who did or didn't do it but something was off about this recent case and confession from the beginning.
53
I just read a very thought-provoking piece written by Adam Sirois, the lone dissenter from the jury that heard this case in 2015. Raises the same points you do as well as some others.
9
I have thought about this beautiful boy and his grieving parents for years. It still hurts to think about the pain that Etan's parents live with. I pray for them and wish them some measure of peace and healing, if possible.
136
Seems like it is the right guy, but without scientific evidence we shall never know. Alas for all involved.
15
Condolences to the Patz family ( long overdue )
The long arm of the law really stretched in this case, but let this be a small modicum of deterrent to any future attackers, that the law does indeed, never give up.
The long arm of the law really stretched in this case, but let this be a small modicum of deterrent to any future attackers, that the law does indeed, never give up.
12
Even after 4 decades since the disappearance and murder of 6-year-old Etan Patz, this story continues to be heartbreaking. My heart continues to break for Etan's parents and family. Perhaps If Pedro Hernandez would admit he committed this heinous crime, some resolution could come to the family. But I doubt that will ever happen. Even after this verdict, Etan's family will forever live in a world of hurt and grief. Rest in peace Etan.
28
There is a confession. Maybe you missed that?
6
No, I read the various statements that he made throughout the years to family members and various detectives. But he was/is also mentally ill and he probably did do it. But as one juror stated, it's not a black and white case. This verdict took 40 years for a reason. The complexities of the case coupled with his mental issues were pretty profound. I just hope Etan's family will one day find peace.
4
Actually, his confession is the only evidence that got him convicted. And it's questionable whether his confession can be trusted.
11
Thank God it's over.
3
It's not over. His lawyers are appealing.
9
@Lee:
It's never over, especially for the grieving parents who will weep bitter tears until they die.
I explained my thoughts about the problems with this trial and verdict in two prior comments so there's no need to reprise those. My conviction about Hernandez' conviction, however, deserves restatement. I'm profoundly disturbed by it, and believe it is a miscarriage of justice.
Although the statute of limitations never closes for a murder, as a practical matter if a trial doesn't begin within five years of the incident it's patently unfair to the defendant. But to hold it nearly forty years later is rank absurdity unless, unless, unless ironclad physical and eyewitness evidence exists. Ironclad.
In this instance there isn't so much as fleeting vapor by way of hard physical evidence, that confession aside. That suspicious confession aside.
I believe Hernandez was coerced into confessing to a crime he didn't commit and the actual killer is either dead, imprisoned for other crimes -- possibly some similar -- or still out there plying his trade. I don't believe NYPD detectives performed adequately or even competently, in part because the killer outmatched them but mainly because the NYPD was a deeply flawed organization in 1979, hobbled by a culture that was corrupt to the marrow of its bones (Knapp Commission/Serpico).
As for the administration of justice in the Five Boroughs (forget atrocities like Rikers) that would be laughable were the consequences not so tragic.
It's never over, especially for the grieving parents who will weep bitter tears until they die.
I explained my thoughts about the problems with this trial and verdict in two prior comments so there's no need to reprise those. My conviction about Hernandez' conviction, however, deserves restatement. I'm profoundly disturbed by it, and believe it is a miscarriage of justice.
Although the statute of limitations never closes for a murder, as a practical matter if a trial doesn't begin within five years of the incident it's patently unfair to the defendant. But to hold it nearly forty years later is rank absurdity unless, unless, unless ironclad physical and eyewitness evidence exists. Ironclad.
In this instance there isn't so much as fleeting vapor by way of hard physical evidence, that confession aside. That suspicious confession aside.
I believe Hernandez was coerced into confessing to a crime he didn't commit and the actual killer is either dead, imprisoned for other crimes -- possibly some similar -- or still out there plying his trade. I don't believe NYPD detectives performed adequately or even competently, in part because the killer outmatched them but mainly because the NYPD was a deeply flawed organization in 1979, hobbled by a culture that was corrupt to the marrow of its bones (Knapp Commission/Serpico).
As for the administration of justice in the Five Boroughs (forget atrocities like Rikers) that would be laughable were the consequences not so tragic.
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Sending peace and prayers to Etan's parents and family.
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After 3 months of testimony and 9 weeks of jury deliberations, following a previous long drawn out deliberation, I do not share your confidence in this verdict. Hernadez supposedly lured young Patz into his basement -- that takes 3 months to prove. And in the end the jurors decided based on a confession This case reeks of over prosecution.
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9 days
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Now we can understand what happened. In the act of sexual molestation, while the child screamed, the assailant, who had not intended to commit murder, choked him to shut him up. Freud was right about some things. Our secular culture is in denial about the need for society to control man's baser instincts, to raise children in healthy moral communities of intact families. The perverse environment of extreme poverty in our inner cities leads to an 18 year old male unable to control his urges while the 18 year old males in rich suburbia take up guns on a rampage due to the very same absence of cultural norms of morality.