Structures built in the 60s and 70s have a shelf-life that must be examined, renewed or replaced. Our government - at all levels has not been doing that. Now we're starting to see the consequences.
3
I don't believe that government is at fault here. Government is just a reflection of voters behavior and voters have allowed ourselves to be brainwashed into believing that government is inherently bad and inefficient and the solution is endlessly to lower taxes to starve government of resources and that the only consequences will be money falling from the trees for everyone to benefit from. It's time we snapped out of this national stupor.
4
If we know what's happening in Oroville with over 200,000 evacuated where have they gone? With more rain on the way why aren't we using this time to find out what is working for the people. Ask some of them to help others who will be affected get people out of harm's way. Unless this is part of the NWO to get rid of people. If this is not the focus on all who will affected it is part of the plot. Who will be blamed? Who ever has been getting paid to do the job has one day to get this right. Let us know in Sacramento what we need to do today. Do wanna be making sure this don't ever happen again. A dam is in reach of man. DAM !!!
1
It's pretty simple.
Cheap is dear, and Republicans are cheapsakes except when it comes to their kleptocracies.
Cheap is dear, and Republicans are cheapsakes except when it comes to their kleptocracies.
1
When you don't spend the money on upkeep, you get to spend far more in disaster recovery.
But logic will never get through the Corporate controlled representatives.
But logic will never get through the Corporate controlled representatives.
1
Lived about 40miles away from Oroville for 22yrs. As a retired engineer I loved to visit dams and Oroville is beautiful in the sense of huge fresh water for central to Southern CA and large power output all year around. The main and emergency spills ways are completely separate from the dam wall. There never has been a danger to this dam now or before. This fill type dam and earthquake resistant more than others. Oroville Dam is a major part of the CA Water Resources Project. A month from now all this nonsense about fear and loathing will be long past. Sure lots of money for repairs but the value of this dam to CA is second to none. Many comments below don't have a clue about the situation, the Dam or the community. It is fairly remote country area with great agricultural areas for a hundred miles in all directions.
5
This is my hometown area (I grew up in tiny Loma Rica, which is in the Sierra foothills NE of Marsyville) and I appreciate the deserved coverage this story is getting right now. This area flooded twice in my lifetime already: once in 1986 and again in 1997. With a little (more) digging, you'll find nearly all residents have a strong memory of this - and I'm surprised this context hasn't been mentioned in any reporting yet (check out: http://www.bepreparedyuba.org/pages/prepare/history.aspx). Northern California is the part of the state that gets ignored. A lot. And yet. The central valley grows a ton of the world's vegetables (Bittman, "Everyone Eats There") and is mostly farmed by families in the Yuba City, Marysville, District 10, Live Oak, Gridley, & Oroville areas (and countless more, too). Yes, the Oroville dam is the linchpin of the entire water system for the state. Let's remember to also consider & report on how the flooding would mean the loss of crops, livestock, and thus livelihoods for a lot (if not all) of these family farmers in the area. I love California - all of it - and implore the NY Times to help ensure Americans are just as educated about lawns in Los Angeles as they are about family farms & ranches in NorCal that fill so many plates, nation wide.
6
INMHO As long as we continue to spend a ridculously high proportion of our national budget on all things military or "defense" and destroy everything that nourishes us as humans for the almighty buck, we will continue our decline. Education, infrastructure, the environment, a civil society that supports a high quality of life for all our citizens- all will continue to deteriorate until we collapse upon ourselves. We can't have it both ways.
5
I'll bet Feather Falls is rocking. I'm almost tempted to hike there to see it, but i'd probably get stuck in the traffic jams of the evacuees. Someone should get film.
(Feather Falls falls about 800 feet into a granite box canyon that leads to Lake Oroville).
(Feather Falls falls about 800 feet into a granite box canyon that leads to Lake Oroville).
2
California spent lots of infrastructure funds on high-speed rail to nowhere but failed to do essential projects. Out with Jerry Brown.
6
I'm sorry, but do you live in California? The HSR project may not be the best way to plan for a population growth of 5M people in the next decade or so, but it is not a train to nowhere. I'm wondering what you would have said to a multi million dollar cement pour for a spillway at a dam that had not needed that spillway in 50 years, during a 5-year long drought that saw the water levels way way way below capacity, and after the previous Republican administration had left the sate bankrupt and literally issuing IOUs, and our schools are still catching up on maintenance and infrastructure in an earthquake zone half the length of the eastern seaboard. I'm sure you were first in line to support funding for the spillway then, right?
11
Well, the train will go from Merced to Bakersfield. I guess that is not nowhere for a few hundred thousand people.
3
Before the dams were built we know that the Central Valley flooded completely to the same size of Lake Ontario in both 1850 and 1862. We also know from core samples in the aquifer and ancient lake beds that there have been extended dry periods before rainfall was recorded in the late 19th Century. It seems to me that these events, so much talked about over the last 6 years, are still well within the norm. (Marc Reisner's "Cadillac Desert" still stands as the best illumination into the California water system and historical weather patterns). Republicans, Democrats, bureaucracy, and climate change really have nothing to do with any of this and I am confused why people are so vexed by this very natural occurrence. It is not hard to see that such a torrential season of rain could burst one of these dams when we have such a slim knowledge of the historical patterns throughout time. There is nothing that can prepare you for the unexpected or the unthinkable. As a young man I remember that it rained everyday in February of 1998 except two days. What would prevent it from raining everyday from November to April? In light of all that we should prepare for the worst conditions, which have to be the dry years. I agree with opinions that argue for increased investment in waste water reclamation and desalinization.
10
You mean we can't blame someone for it (Republicans, preferably)?! That's all very confusing....
I wonder if all the money squandered on the silly bullet train from Los Angles to San Francisco could have been used to avoid this problem?
4
Thanks for your concern, person who lives on the eastern seaboard where rail, highway, and bus connections between major cities have been well established for over a century. Yes, it sure is silly to build rapid train connections between the two largest metropolitan areas in a state that represents 12% of the US population and 15% of national GDP. Why would anybody need other rapid transit options that might decongest our freeways, or reduce air pollution from driving and flying?
9
Well, we could've invested 100B into UofC which is now receiving zilch from the state.
3
Regarding climate change and this event, clearly a statistical connection for only one event is nearly impossible to prove so quickly, BUT you be be very lucky indeed if this is not a sign of things to come.
This is just a tiny taste of what Trump will bring to bear if you don't stop whining about the election. Heck, he created these holes while golfing...
2
Interesting that climate change was blamed for the drought, and there was no going back to a time of plentiful water. Now the floods are being blamed on climate change. When in doubt, and when wanting to make political points, blame climate change.
Oh, and California has had extreme droughts and extreme flooding well before CO2 emissions were an issue.
Oh, and California has had extreme droughts and extreme flooding well before CO2 emissions were an issue.
7
We never had a drought in California. If we had a serious drought- then our Governor Jerry Brown would have been compelled to impose a moratorium on the construction of new homes. Since he never once mentioned suspending or slowing urban sprawl- then my assumption is we have sufficient water reserves. So the drought was overblown, liberal "the sky is falling" baloney. To think everyone took shorter showers and stopped watering their lawns so we could keep building more homes so new residents could do the same??? That's just ridiculous.
3
And just how do you propose to stop people from moving in and out of any state or area in a free country? There are numerous legal angles of attack on overly restrictive zoning and building schemes, and your implication that public authority can just freeze growth in a state ("suspending or slowing urban sprawl") is unbelievably ignorant.
But then, so is your analysis of whether we have just been through a drought. Considering you're drinking and bathing in and watering your landscaping with Northern California water, pretty arrogant stuff here.
But then, so is your analysis of whether we have just been through a drought. Considering you're drinking and bathing in and watering your landscaping with Northern California water, pretty arrogant stuff here.
2
OK, here we are. ( again )
Let's not point the fingers at one side or the other of the political spectrum as to who did not do what, when and find solutions for the here and now going forward.
Climate change is\will wreak havoc on crumbling infrastructure. We need to upgrade as fast as possible.
Aye, I know the knee jerk reaction is to slow everything down ( which republicans did to Democrats for 8 years so they could not get credit ) , but let's just get it done.
We cannot just throw tax cuts at every problem and then offer platitudes when that gross solution does nothing, and comes back to bite us in the ...
Let's not point the fingers at one side or the other of the political spectrum as to who did not do what, when and find solutions for the here and now going forward.
Climate change is\will wreak havoc on crumbling infrastructure. We need to upgrade as fast as possible.
Aye, I know the knee jerk reaction is to slow everything down ( which republicans did to Democrats for 8 years so they could not get credit ) , but let's just get it done.
We cannot just throw tax cuts at every problem and then offer platitudes when that gross solution does nothing, and comes back to bite us in the ...
3
So much for the president's 1 trillion dollar infrastructure plan. You know, the one that he touted in his inauguration address and exists only in his mind...somewhere out there in the Land of OZ. Exists the same place as his healthcare plan and his Defeat ISIS plan.
My apologies to the Aussies.
My apologies to the Aussies.
3
We all need safe water, roads, bridges and other critical infrastructure.
Safe water and infrastructure have been so politicized that as a country we cannot agree on how to support safety for all.
Sadly chances don't look good for that changing anytime soon.
Safe water and infrastructure have been so politicized that as a country we cannot agree on how to support safety for all.
Sadly chances don't look good for that changing anytime soon.
2
'At one point the drought was so severe here that water levels in the lake dropped to just 33 percent of its capacity. ' In New Mexico, the Elephant Butte lake/reservoir dropped to less than 10% of capacity. Talk about severe drought!
1
The NY Times tells only part of the news because of political correctness.
Drought turning to flood is only part of the story.
Much of California is a desert. But since 1950 the population of California has quadrupled and desert has been turned into suburbs of large cities like Los Angeles. LA would not survive on its own water, so water is pumped in from far away. Thus the Colorado River is drained dry and little of its water actually makes it to the Ocean.
So the "drought" is actually caused by population growth.
But other things are caused by population growth too, such as global warming.
Without the internal combustion engine farming would be much harder, and many in the third world would starve.
But the conventional wisdom ignores this inconvenient fact and blames the internal combustion engine for climate woes.
It is not climate change, it is too many people which cause climate change as one of many noxious consequences.
Another is the "secular stagnation" which economists can't seem to understand. Incomes stagnate because there are too many unskilled workers competing which are no longer available.
In short what California needs is control of population growth. That includes a stop to illegal immigration and its "sanctuary cities."
But anybody who brings up the issue of overpopulation is called a bigot or a racist. Not just by extremists, but by NY Times readers, who are too willing to accept conventional wisdom rather than engage in critical thought.
Drought turning to flood is only part of the story.
Much of California is a desert. But since 1950 the population of California has quadrupled and desert has been turned into suburbs of large cities like Los Angeles. LA would not survive on its own water, so water is pumped in from far away. Thus the Colorado River is drained dry and little of its water actually makes it to the Ocean.
So the "drought" is actually caused by population growth.
But other things are caused by population growth too, such as global warming.
Without the internal combustion engine farming would be much harder, and many in the third world would starve.
But the conventional wisdom ignores this inconvenient fact and blames the internal combustion engine for climate woes.
It is not climate change, it is too many people which cause climate change as one of many noxious consequences.
Another is the "secular stagnation" which economists can't seem to understand. Incomes stagnate because there are too many unskilled workers competing which are no longer available.
In short what California needs is control of population growth. That includes a stop to illegal immigration and its "sanctuary cities."
But anybody who brings up the issue of overpopulation is called a bigot or a racist. Not just by extremists, but by NY Times readers, who are too willing to accept conventional wisdom rather than engage in critical thought.
7
Three has also been excessive snow melt.
California, or should I say northern California, has done a lot to combat climate change. The problem is the anti-intellectualism and hatred of government in the rest of the states.
California, or should I say northern California, has done a lot to combat climate change. The problem is the anti-intellectualism and hatred of government in the rest of the states.
6
On the very same evening when our cultural glitterati were on stage celebrating their musical achievements in Los Angeles, this "dam" drama impacting nearly a quarter million mostly working class poor Californians was playing out in near darkness a few hundred miles to the north. During the surreal night, all tweets seemed focussed on the Grammy's, the outfits and the slights. Hardly any mention was being made of the unfolding tragedy and displacement. In California, proximity to salt water is a privilege while living in the shadow of harnessed fresh water is being revealed as a threat.
3
I miss those days when the only dire threat to California were earthquakes. Now there are threats of draught, floods, forest fires, mud slides. I keep asking my cousin why he still insists on living in Walnut Creek. Even with all of these dire and potential threats, he said California is the greatest state there is. I told him I would continue to light a candle in our home town Catholic church - just in case.
2
Yes, so very safe there in the land of epic Mississippi River floods and tornadoes...
1
Oroville is a sad example of what happens when a nation chooses to ignore its leaking roofs. During the drought California had the perfect opportunity to make the repairs that were clearly needed. Yet both republican and democratic administrations did nothing. Now the possible cost of their shortsightedness could be a hundred fold. Will we learn anything?
6
Let's spend the 25 billion on our dams instead of a wall.
5
Or, in instead of spending money to support the millions of illegal aliens in California, we could build dams.
3
Those silly environmental groups and pesky regulations. Looks like it would have been wise to heed both back in 2005, but alas Schwarzenegger and Bush were at the helm calling the shots. That's GOP government for you.
2
And the Democrats have been in total control in CA ever since... so?
1
Ever since 2015, Chris. Do your homework.
1
I grew up in Gridley California, one of the towns being evacuated. It is more rural than most people living in the cities or our nation could begin to believe. Like many rural out of the way areas of our country it's infrastructure is often given a very low priority.... Yet the Oroville Dam, built to control area flooding and provide water for millions of acres of agriculture as well as the Central Ca., Bay Area and Southern Ca. is critical to millions of people. We should have never gotten to this point.
9
They didn't think erosion would be a problem? I am flabbergasted. It is an emergency spillway intended to handle UNCONTROLLED spills from the reservoir. Any idiot can deduce that there could be erosion during a spill event.
What a profoundly stupid move.
What a profoundly stupid move.
5
Several commentators argue that the problem isn't a shortage of water -- it's a shortage of water STORAGE. CA, they argue, should build more reservoirs to "even out" the rainy years and the drought years.
More reservoirs would solve the water shortage, short term. But ample water would induce more people to move to CA, which would mean still more reservoirs and still more new residents, and so on.
In short, more reservoirs means more water means more people. We have enough here in CA already. If limiting the water supply curbs the inflow of people, so be it.
More reservoirs would solve the water shortage, short term. But ample water would induce more people to move to CA, which would mean still more reservoirs and still more new residents, and so on.
In short, more reservoirs means more water means more people. We have enough here in CA already. If limiting the water supply curbs the inflow of people, so be it.
7
"new, never-happened-before event[s]" are the new normal.
2
Is Trump punishing California taxpayers by withholding federal emergency fund?
1
We'll need Federal dollars to fix this mess. I wonder how amenable Congress will be to allocating funds towards the Golden State's infrastructure after most of California's politicians impugned the rest of the nation's character?
3
California donates huge money to Federal coffers each year. Maybe they just won't give any next time if they don't get the help they need now.
3
So now, you believe that if you do not like the way the federal government spends money, federal taxes are voluntary. Good luck with that.
1
On Jan 1., 1997 I stood on Bridge Street in Oroville watching 150Kcfs go under the bridge. That's 150 thousand cubic feet per second of water, the maximum capacity of the Oroville Dam main spillway. Water resources was reporting 300Kcfs coming into the lake at that time. They were warning if those conditions continued the lake would fill and water would flow over the emergency spillway. The main concern I recall was that Lake Oroville would then become nothing more than 'a wide spot in the river'. I don't recall concerns about the integrity of the emergency spillway but parts of Oroville were evacuated.
Inflow to the lake went down and water didn't go over the emergency spillway, but at some point that year it came within a foot of doing so. A few years later environmental groups filed suit warning the spillway would not have been able to handle an overrun. It seems the events of 1997 should have added urgency to those concerns.
Inflow to the lake went down and water didn't go over the emergency spillway, but at some point that year it came within a foot of doing so. A few years later environmental groups filed suit warning the spillway would not have been able to handle an overrun. It seems the events of 1997 should have added urgency to those concerns.
8
California has not been diligent about investing in and maintaining infrastructure. For a state to double in population in the last generation and not on water and other basics is unforgivable. Social liberals need to realize that deferring maintenance and pushing off infrastructure projects is not going to help their causes.
5
How exactly are liberals to blame for this? I haven't seen Republicans pushing for any kind of infrastructure spending.
2
Social liberals have been screaming for infrastructure spending for decades. Where have you been?
3
Need to save money to pay for social services for illegal aliens populating the states.
2
“It’s a flood plain — we know the history of the area..."
Exactly. Banking on a dam not to spill into a flood plain in worst-case conditions is like asking a car to save you in a bad accident without deploying its airbags so you won't get bruised. The real issue is that people are allowed to live and farm in a FLOOD plain, which clearly should not happen. And worst-case conditions always happen, sooner or later.
Exactly. Banking on a dam not to spill into a flood plain in worst-case conditions is like asking a car to save you in a bad accident without deploying its airbags so you won't get bruised. The real issue is that people are allowed to live and farm in a FLOOD plain, which clearly should not happen. And worst-case conditions always happen, sooner or later.
2
Annual rainfall is now back to the normal mean. On average, all looks right.
1
The climate science behind the drought long attributed it to natural, recurring climate variations. The phenomenon was well-studied and well-researched. In the last year of drought, though, a couple of studies talked of climate change as a partial cause, much as three voters who voted for Trump were a partial cause for his victory, Now, the Times and other media had what they wanted, This was a climate change phenomenon. Those who continued to cite the 65 million who voted for Trump were climate deniers.
The scientific method goes bath ways and does not bow to what liberals may want to claim. To have a scientific bent of mind, you must understand that some things are caused by climate change and others are not, and you must let the chips fall where they may.
The scientific method goes bath ways and does not bow to what liberals may want to claim. To have a scientific bent of mind, you must understand that some things are caused by climate change and others are not, and you must let the chips fall where they may.
1
I have no idea what you're talking about. Everybody knows cycles of drought are common in California. Some studies have predicted that we can expect an exacerbation of the extremes of these cycles. Nobody expected that California would never have a rainy year again.
4
Jerry Brown, a Democrat, prefers to give irrelevant speeches in Paris detailing "May-Be" Global Climate Change issues rather than worrying about the here and now in the Central Valley. He took over from Ronald Reagan, a Republican, in 1973 and nothing but water management problems from then-on.
4
Apparently the problem with the dam's design was known but it would have been enormously expensive to fix. The 'science' was bought by state agencies to legally establish the dam's emergency spillway could handle more than ten times the amount of overflow that caused it to nearly fail last week. Scientifically proven facts are only as good as the people who conduct the research and people are fallible, subject to personal, political and financial bias.
2
The drought and the extreme precipitation are predicted indications of "extreme weather" influenced by climate change.
The omission of any role of extreme weather and climate change in this coverage is a not so subtle form of denial.
The omission of any role of extreme weather and climate change in this coverage is a not so subtle form of denial.
2
Well, these people can thank the new $$$$B train from SF to Anaheim. Who cares about the real people when BIG projects bring political capital.
2
When times get tough and Mother Nature doesn't cooperate, Democrat Governor Brown demands help from the federal government. When times are good, he excoriates Trump and all things Republican, and threatens secession from the United States to illustrate his support for illegal immigration. Trump should tie any federal aid to a guarantee of compliance with federal immigration law and the deportation of illegal aliens. What goes around, comes around.
6
California is the sixth largest economy on the planet, the state pays plenty of money into the federal coffers.
1
The GDP of California is the sixth highest in the world. They contribute more to the Federal government in the form of taxes than any state. If the government won't help with this emergency, I suggest Brown figure out how to keep the state's money within the state. Like you say, what goes around comes around. You like food from California's central valley on your table?
2
"As of 2015, California oversaw 1,250 dams, of which 678 were deemed “high hazard” because of the consequences of their failure, according to the Association of State Dam Safety Officials."
http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/02/13/oroville-dam-crisis-highlights-nee...
Rather than spend state money on infrastructure repair, our governor who is beloved of the Liberals, has chosen to waste money on the high-speed train to nowhere. He could have used is political capital on passing bonds to help repair infrastructure that his dad pushed for. But I guess he felt that he had to compete with his dad in building a new white elephant. As a registered Dem who nowadays votes as an independent, I was excited when he replaced Arnold back in 2011. I now feel somewhat disappointed by his governorship overall. He leaves behind a burgeoning government employee pension problem and a crumbling infrastructure.
http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/02/13/oroville-dam-crisis-highlights-nee...
Rather than spend state money on infrastructure repair, our governor who is beloved of the Liberals, has chosen to waste money on the high-speed train to nowhere. He could have used is political capital on passing bonds to help repair infrastructure that his dad pushed for. But I guess he felt that he had to compete with his dad in building a new white elephant. As a registered Dem who nowadays votes as an independent, I was excited when he replaced Arnold back in 2011. I now feel somewhat disappointed by his governorship overall. He leaves behind a burgeoning government employee pension problem and a crumbling infrastructure.
4
Thank you, Mike McPhate and Jess Bigwood. For your next stories please consider "tutorials" on:
Manage by watershed. Watershed defined by Hydraulic Unit Code
Predicted inflow, managed outflow
Use of GOES satellite for water management.
Lessons learned from Easter Flood in Dayton
Notched levees
Valmeyer, Illinois
Will Green bypass or Humphreys thesis?
Conflict of use. Channel for shipping? Conveyance for irrigation?
Lessons from Rex Archer
Financial literacy of expected value
Land use zoning
Lessons from Hurricane Betsy
Federal government as insurer of last resort
Moral hazard of insurers free loading on governments
Definition of sustainable by John Renton of West Virginia University
Manage by watershed. Watershed defined by Hydraulic Unit Code
Predicted inflow, managed outflow
Use of GOES satellite for water management.
Lessons learned from Easter Flood in Dayton
Notched levees
Valmeyer, Illinois
Will Green bypass or Humphreys thesis?
Conflict of use. Channel for shipping? Conveyance for irrigation?
Lessons from Rex Archer
Financial literacy of expected value
Land use zoning
Lessons from Hurricane Betsy
Federal government as insurer of last resort
Moral hazard of insurers free loading on governments
Definition of sustainable by John Renton of West Virginia University
No one has mentioned climate change. As we as a nation ignore global warming we will have to pay the price for our negligence in unpredictable weather which causes natural disasters that can not be predicted. In California we plan for not having enough water, but have never had to plan for this much water. We knew the levees and water systems needed to be updated and protected, but the money was never spent and now the people evacuated are paying the price of our neglect.
5
Never had to plan for this much water? Because the climate change gang only looks at things moving in one direction - California will get hotter and drier and more desert-like, our shores will be eroded forever!! Every Hurricane will look like Katrina!!
By the way, few natural disasters can be predicted (haven't the geniuses in your state been trying to predict earthquakes for decades - that last "swarm" in southern California turned out to be a big dud, thankfully) and why haven't the progressives been clamoring for the money to be spent on the levees and water system infrastructure? You need to get the Hollywood crowd behind this before the surge of water does any damage to their mansions or their vineyards.
By the way, few natural disasters can be predicted (haven't the geniuses in your state been trying to predict earthquakes for decades - that last "swarm" in southern California turned out to be a big dud, thankfully) and why haven't the progressives been clamoring for the money to be spent on the levees and water system infrastructure? You need to get the Hollywood crowd behind this before the surge of water does any damage to their mansions or their vineyards.
At least you know and admit it. The Golden state probably thought that this drought would be the new normal. poor planning on every level from Governor Brown down the line.
1
I gave up on the corporate-media, even liberal corporate-media, mentioning the anomalous weather we see almost weekly as having any relation to climate change.
With all the talk of 'fake news", it's about time to begin focusing on omitted news.
With all the talk of 'fake news", it's about time to begin focusing on omitted news.
2
This is exactly what climate scientists have been predicting for California with climate change caused by global warming - more drought, punctuated now and then and here and there by drenching rain and flooding. And on into the evermore indefinite future.
7
The people who are now piling criticism on California for not spending millions on building a second emergency spillway with concrete, even though the emergency spillway had been used only once in the last 50 years, are the same people that (had California concreted the spillway) would have been griping about wasteful spending if California had "wasted" millions to concrete a spillway that has only been used once in the last 50 years, in a time when we just went through multiple years of drought and a few years ago, the water level behind this dam was dramatically low. Hindsight is 2020, but please spare us the "typical inept Californians" talk and look to your own backyards and the public works projects that you are currently complaining about because they cost too much to construct or repair and have little chance of being needed. We had one of those types of projects, and all logic and budgeting said it wasn't worth the cost, and well...here we are.
9
Having lived in California for the past 5 years was enlightening that climate change is real and affecting the lives of people and state budgets in a very real way. California needs to substantially ramp up its investment in water management. We need to build additional capacity (overground or underground/ASR) to store water to effectively manage both droughts and floods. All of this could mean we have to increase taxes to pay for the new infrastructure. We will have to pay for climate change one way or another.
23
Actually recent history shows the opposite and it has nothing to do with climate change. We have endured a typical cycle of five years of drought followed by a wet winter, a pattern that has always existed here. The current wet year has filled our reservoirs so we have a year's full of storage. Our water systems are robust and are working; the only neglected area is ground water replenishment
3
The Liberals and Democrats have been talking about ramping up its investment in water management and building additional water storage capacity for decades.
Unfortunately, the state is poorly managed!
Unfortunately, the state is poorly managed!
2
...just like highways are NOT designed...
Sorry about that.
Sorry about that.
Here's the problem. Had a previous administration fortified the emergency spillway (which hadn't been needed in 50 years) as recommended a few years ago by several interest groups, this event would not have happened but those fortifying funds would not have been available to fund "free" higher education or the arts or ,,,
That admin would be viewed as "anti-people" by a noisy few, so they funded the ... and made the noisy few not happy but at least less noisy.
And here we are.
That admin would be viewed as "anti-people" by a noisy few, so they funded the ... and made the noisy few not happy but at least less noisy.
And here we are.
3
They had five years to do maintenance and make improvements and did nothing?
Have they built more reservoirs? Have they built more canals? Have they repaired roads, state highways and Interstate highways? Can the middle class live in the state? Why is their energy costs 50% higher than the rest of the nation? Is crime rising? Are city and state leaders abiding by all laws? How is the aquifer doing? Are they ready for the ongoing drought conditions going on in the southern part of the state? Why is their taxes so high? Why is their state in such massive debt?
It looks like the Californians idea of Nirvana leaves a lot to be desired!
Have they built more reservoirs? Have they built more canals? Have they repaired roads, state highways and Interstate highways? Can the middle class live in the state? Why is their energy costs 50% higher than the rest of the nation? Is crime rising? Are city and state leaders abiding by all laws? How is the aquifer doing? Are they ready for the ongoing drought conditions going on in the southern part of the state? Why is their taxes so high? Why is their state in such massive debt?
It looks like the Californians idea of Nirvana leaves a lot to be desired!
8
You obviously know nothing about California. Until Governor Brown straightened the budget, which Arnold claimed he would do when he ran for governor, a lot of things were not maintained because there wasn't the money to pay for it.
Yes, there is a middle class. Crime is rising everywhere. Taxes are high in other states too, and most Californians pay their taxes to receive services (for the environment) that other states don't subscribe to. There isn't a massive debt (see above, Governor Brown straightened out budgets/finances).
Living in SoCal isn't always easy nor is it cheap, but the vibrancy of the cities and the melting pot of cultures makes it worthwhile. And, we don't have to dig out of snow!
Yes, there is a middle class. Crime is rising everywhere. Taxes are high in other states too, and most Californians pay their taxes to receive services (for the environment) that other states don't subscribe to. There isn't a massive debt (see above, Governor Brown straightened out budgets/finances).
Living in SoCal isn't always easy nor is it cheap, but the vibrancy of the cities and the melting pot of cultures makes it worthwhile. And, we don't have to dig out of snow!
5
200,000 displaced people? No problem, Trump will make a quick call to Putin, and Mother Russia will take them in.
Or perhaps Enrique Peña Nieto would like to pay Trump for the privilege of taking them in?
With Trump & Cronies, Inc. anything is possible - except environmental awareness.
Or perhaps Enrique Peña Nieto would like to pay Trump for the privilege of taking them in?
With Trump & Cronies, Inc. anything is possible - except environmental awareness.
2
Recently I read an article in Scientific American about a weather phenomena called an atmospheric river. A weather pattern where enormous amounts of rain and snow fall in single area. The article stated that California had a similar effect long ago that dumped so much precipitation that it turned the San Joaquin Valley into a lake.
1
Too many folks who have no idea what they are talking about are commenting here. Oroville Dam is a multi-purpose reservoir which has been fulfilling it's functions well for 50 years. It's design and construction were accomplished to the best standards of the period. Design criteria do not include 'maximum possible' anything. Just like highways are designed to accommodate the highest traffic volume but something akin to the 90th percentile volume, reservoirs and spillways are designed to handle something less than a maximum conceivable event.
It has been just a bit over 50 years when the Hell Hole dam on the American River failed while under construction. The resulting flood wave was comparable to the dam failure which caused the Johnstown Flood. Only the fact that the upper American River was sparsely populated kept damage to a 'minimum.'
The problem is that things wear out. That makes maintenance ever so important. Ask New Orleans how their inundation could have been prevented IF faithful maintenance of levees had been carried out. It wasn't. Here, the dam has been functioning well and actually is coping with the current runoff event. It's the spalling of the concrete spillway that presents potential failure. Known problems were not fixed early on. Maintenance is expensive, you see, and easily delayed to 'save' money.
Incidentally, Oroville Dam used countless tons of old dredging rubble in it's construction. Many kudoes were given by environmentalists.
It has been just a bit over 50 years when the Hell Hole dam on the American River failed while under construction. The resulting flood wave was comparable to the dam failure which caused the Johnstown Flood. Only the fact that the upper American River was sparsely populated kept damage to a 'minimum.'
The problem is that things wear out. That makes maintenance ever so important. Ask New Orleans how their inundation could have been prevented IF faithful maintenance of levees had been carried out. It wasn't. Here, the dam has been functioning well and actually is coping with the current runoff event. It's the spalling of the concrete spillway that presents potential failure. Known problems were not fixed early on. Maintenance is expensive, you see, and easily delayed to 'save' money.
Incidentally, Oroville Dam used countless tons of old dredging rubble in it's construction. Many kudoes were given by environmentalists.
33
Yes, as with all these different infrastructures, etc…it is needed the continued maintenance... & hopefully it will work for those who desire to live in such areas of possible human or natural destruction. Would u buy a home if in a known flood plain ? even tho it has not happen in 100 years? Did the real estate broker mention this to you? or wanting to live in a home below a major damn that could be another Johnstown, etc. Hopefully your safety is best…peace
Baldwin Dam 1963 in CA. failure... min loss of life down stream…yet Oroville Dam is a much dangerous if compromised.
Mississippi flood 1923, etc… the 76 Damn that failed in Utah…etc, etc, etc don't worry be happy….ps if u can , live in high ground area, be it in rain or shine….be it for one day or 100 years.
Mississippi flood 1923, etc… the 76 Damn that failed in Utah…etc, etc, etc don't worry be happy….ps if u can , live in high ground area, be it in rain or shine….be it for one day or 100 years.
Rachel Maddow brought this to our attention a week ago.
2
Gov Moonbeam has spend millions of useless train projects and illegals while neglecting the folks paying the taxes. Of course, the people in the vicinity of the dam vote Republican, so Moonbeam wouldn't care one iota if their homes are flooded or not. California...a great place to leave!!!
6
"a great place to leave." I would say the same of sprawling, swampy Houston.
5
I live in a small town in the foothills northeast of Oroville. The counties that are being affected are Red counties. They voted for Trump. They are big on guns. They think environmentalists are communists (have been called that by a neighbor). They are climate deniers. Some folks want to sussceed to form the State of Jefferson, a right wing alt conservative state. They hate urban liberals. We will see if Trump comes through for them with more than just tweets. That would be in the form of fixing the dam. It would also include tightening regulations to make them safer.
What these folks are not seeing is how much worse it will get. Yes... Climate Change is real. Thirty years ago the precip at my elevation...2300 feet would have been snow. The spring melt would have been easier to manage than the recent deluge. The winds have become more intense over the past years. The ocean is warmer. Ignorance is not bliss. Belief is not good science.
A final concern for this massive dam is seismic. In 1975, there was an earthquake. The immense weight from the water in this dam put pressure on the fault system. Some geologist think that was a trigger for the event. Nature does not care how you voted. It does what it does.
What these folks are not seeing is how much worse it will get. Yes... Climate Change is real. Thirty years ago the precip at my elevation...2300 feet would have been snow. The spring melt would have been easier to manage than the recent deluge. The winds have become more intense over the past years. The ocean is warmer. Ignorance is not bliss. Belief is not good science.
A final concern for this massive dam is seismic. In 1975, there was an earthquake. The immense weight from the water in this dam put pressure on the fault system. Some geologist think that was a trigger for the event. Nature does not care how you voted. It does what it does.
13
You provide precise reasons why Sacramento would not spend a dime on these counties while building a train from SF to Ana.
1
The fact that the reservoir levels have been falling for the past five years only to be filled up in a very short period of time will put additional stress on the fault lines!
2
A relatively enlightened comment from a fellow Butte County resident.
However, this area is seismically about as stable as anything in California. It may well be that the filling of the Oroville reservoir permeated and pressures some faultlines to trigger the 1975 quake, which was brief and mild (I felt it in Chico). There have been no significant local temblors since then. We get one now and then up in the mountainous areas above Oroville, but, by and large, Oroville is not seismically risky.
However, this area is seismically about as stable as anything in California. It may well be that the filling of the Oroville reservoir permeated and pressures some faultlines to trigger the 1975 quake, which was brief and mild (I felt it in Chico). There have been no significant local temblors since then. We get one now and then up in the mountainous areas above Oroville, but, by and large, Oroville is not seismically risky.
There is a disconnect between creating huge structures and complex systems, and maintaining huge structures and complex systems. The former can be exhilarating and ego enhancing , while the latter, often goes unrewarded , if not ignored.
The consequences accrue, independent the lack of attention.
The consequences accrue, independent the lack of attention.
4
Yeah, nobody notices really important stuff until it's broken, then suddenly there's plenty of blame to go around, mostly, and bizarrely, directed at liberal democrats. I find that, in general, liberal democrats love spending on infrastructure because it keeps people employed and the economy up. Keeps our country looking good and working well. Conservative Republicans don't want to spend any money on anything except the military.
3
Has Trump, perchance, commented...excuse me, tweeted yet about the trouble in California? Shouldn't we expect something from our Dear Leader?
2
This is yet another proof of the fallacy of “Conservative” thinking about all things regarding safety, planning and otherwise using the Government to do public work.
This dam was obviously in need of shoring up in 2005 when groups concerned with long term thinking and planning tried to get it done. It was already obvious what the weather patterns would do in the ensuing years and planning for the bigger monsoon season storms was necessary.
But the “Conservative” folks in charge whom are always against spending unless it’s wasteful spending to a “Conservative” business, put a stop to it with the “Conservative” go to move, reliance on overly optimistic outlooks based on overly optimistic reports. Anything to avoid using Government to do good works that show the lie behind the dogma that government is the problem regardless of the danger. The problem all pro0blems we have is “Conservatives” being in charge of anything to include their own businesses, not the Government.
Anyone with any sense of what water does should have recognized that uncovered dirt and shrubbery in front of the minimal concrete edging would wash away in a matter of hours. The topography of eastern Washington (The Scab Lands) is a good example of what a sudden rush of water will do. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/earth/megafloods-of-the-ice-age.html
Yes it is the right time to be talking about who made what decisions when and why. The evil degeneracy of “Conservatism” must be ended!
This dam was obviously in need of shoring up in 2005 when groups concerned with long term thinking and planning tried to get it done. It was already obvious what the weather patterns would do in the ensuing years and planning for the bigger monsoon season storms was necessary.
But the “Conservative” folks in charge whom are always against spending unless it’s wasteful spending to a “Conservative” business, put a stop to it with the “Conservative” go to move, reliance on overly optimistic outlooks based on overly optimistic reports. Anything to avoid using Government to do good works that show the lie behind the dogma that government is the problem regardless of the danger. The problem all pro0blems we have is “Conservatives” being in charge of anything to include their own businesses, not the Government.
Anyone with any sense of what water does should have recognized that uncovered dirt and shrubbery in front of the minimal concrete edging would wash away in a matter of hours. The topography of eastern Washington (The Scab Lands) is a good example of what a sudden rush of water will do. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/earth/megafloods-of-the-ice-age.html
Yes it is the right time to be talking about who made what decisions when and why. The evil degeneracy of “Conservatism” must be ended!
3
I'm not sure what you mean by Conservatives because California is a blue state controlled by Democrats and Liberals.
California, under Democratic and Liberal leadership, is falling apart and is a reflection of why that group is wrong in so many different ways!
Heck, things are so bad in that state that the Middle Class can't afford to live their anymore!
California, under Democratic and Liberal leadership, is falling apart and is a reflection of why that group is wrong in so many different ways!
Heck, things are so bad in that state that the Middle Class can't afford to live their anymore!
1
"Did anyone ever look into trying to send this surplus of water back down into depleted aquifers? " That in fact is the question of the day or if it is not, it should be. Some farmers have found that during winter heavy rains they can use their irrigation infrastructure to flood their fields which should help to recharge the underground aquifer. Others are apparently reluctant to do so. Meanwhile the California aqueduct has sunk 6 feet in some areas due to the depletion of the aquifer causing the aqueduct to carry significantly less water to SoCal which is largely still parched. Farmers use something like 80% of the water in CA, a large percentage from the aquifer / pumping. Bottom line is the reservoirs may be full, but the "drought" is still here.
1
Democrats and Liberals are not known to have foresight and lack the ability to see the big picture.
So the answer to your question(s) is NO, they haven't done anything other than create sanctuary cities while creating a massive public debt crises!
So the answer to your question(s) is NO, they haven't done anything other than create sanctuary cities while creating a massive public debt crises!
1
As it turns out, not so much of the Central Valley's soils are suited to percolation as you might think. Here in Kern County, we have the largest water banks in the state because the soil is ideal for percolation. But yes, some farmers in the area between Fresno and Stockton are flooding their orchards this winter to try and recharge groundwater. Whatever works!
3
First of all Mr. The Sceptic, let's be real here. The last time we had a GOP president and congress, we had the biggest financial crisis since the great depression and a war in Iraq based on lies told by W and his cronies. So stop with the ignorance and stupidity and basically stop with the lies for which your party is becoming infamous. Moving on (past your absurd lies) to the question of foresight and the big picture. it is the farmers (who are largely conservative) who used the underground aquifer and have the land to recharge it. Since the warming climate (which your Republicans and your president deny) is swiftly changing the dynamics of water in the entire world, let alone California, who in fact is not seeing "the big picture"?
2
Good reporting. The LA Times is doing an excellent job as well and has graphics that helped me understand the layout of the dam and spillways.
3
Jerry Brown has been quite consistent. He has always opposed spending on infrastructure as evil. You haven't noticed any pictures of him inspecting the damage, have you?
5
Liberals!
They had five years to do maintenance and make improvements and did nothing?
Have they built more reservoirs? Have they built more canals? Have they repaired roads, state highways and Interstate highways? Can the Middle Class live in the state? Why is their energy costs 50% higher than the rest of the nation? Is crime rising? Are city and state leaders abiding by all laws? How is the aquifer doing? Are they ready for the ongoing drought conditions going on in the southern part of the state? Why is their taxes so high? Why is their state in such massive debt?
It looks like the Liberals idea of Nirvana leaves a lot to be desired!
They had five years to do maintenance and make improvements and did nothing?
Have they built more reservoirs? Have they built more canals? Have they repaired roads, state highways and Interstate highways? Can the Middle Class live in the state? Why is their energy costs 50% higher than the rest of the nation? Is crime rising? Are city and state leaders abiding by all laws? How is the aquifer doing? Are they ready for the ongoing drought conditions going on in the southern part of the state? Why is their taxes so high? Why is their state in such massive debt?
It looks like the Liberals idea of Nirvana leaves a lot to be desired!
4
We have high taxes and lots of regulation, yet California is the sixth largest economy in the world. We send more funds to Washington than 43 of the other states.
2
Cadillac Desert by Marc Reiser is a fascinating book about California's relationship with water.
5
Not just California but the western past of the US. Most interesting take for me was the idea that WWII was won because of the hydro electricity capability of the US Pacific Northwest (abundant hydro energy for nuclear and other weapons development).
1
It seems like this would finally be a good place to build a wall.
32
the dam was never designed to handle the flow it now faces. the prolonged drought and the virtual religion of global warming had the effect of convincing State officials that it would be a waste to spend money on a structure built for a bygone era of rain and snow. When you wish upon a star, dreams can take you very far.
14
Global warming brings not only drought but extreme weather like the heavy storms California has been experiencing AND warmer winters, which melt the snow a lot faster. The state's reservoir system was designed to store and release snowmelt from the Sierra Nevada's formidable snowpack, a huge natural reservoir. This winter has brought a lot of moisture and snow but also warmer temperatures that melt that snow faster. The heaviest flow is yet to come this spring.
2
This is not what happened, and only deep ignorance says otherwise. Among other things, a) Schwarzanegger pushed water projects that Republicans and taxpayers refused, and b) the 2007 crash left California broke.
By the way: the general global warming/climate change predections for the Sierras is: warmer, wetter winters.
By the way: the general global warming/climate change predections for the Sierras is: warmer, wetter winters.
3
Rob, in the 1970's climate scientists were already seeing evidence that the planet was warming due to human activity, and their models, even then, suggested that this would play out as an increase in the volatility of weather patterns. No one has ever sad that it would stop raining altogether in places like California, partly due to the increase in atmospheric moisture created by melting icecaps. Your attitude suggests that you have internalized the conservative mindset that sees a snowball as proof of a 'hoax', as well as the standard propaganda technique of setting up a 'straw man', in this case the idea of a rainless California, supposedly proposed by climate science, so that you can knock it down.
7
Same story different setting. As we continue to grow and sprawl our population these 'natural disasters' will continue to surge. More houses being built close to the shore, under sea level (New Orleans), close to rivers, in the middle of the woods (forest fires), in earthquake zones. More reservoirs with erodible dams to supply water to more and more people. More parking lots that don't absorb runoff. Each time there will be claims for taxpayers to make those affected whole, as it was 'nature' that did it.
When will we finally decide we've grown enough?
When will we finally decide we've grown enough?
20
Lake Oroville itself is ideally located in a sparsely populated area and is more rural than the numbers of evacuees would suggest. Though I suspect, since the passage of medical marijuana and now legalized marijuana, the population has seen a surge not seen since the Gold Rush. There are many small communities far downstream, and a 30' wall of water would surely have an impact on them. If populations only inhabited areas where there were no natural or man-made disasters, there simply would not be much room. Natural disasters have a way of controlling population growth, one way or another.
1
"Gov. Jerry Brown has requested that the White House make an emergency declaration for Yuba, Butte and Sutter counties."
Californians have been declaring their intention to secede from the United States. They have been signing a petition to have a statewide referendum on the question of whether California should exit the union. Yet, now, they are requesting emergency aide from Washington.
Californians have been declaring their intention to secede from the United States. They have been signing a petition to have a statewide referendum on the question of whether California should exit the union. Yet, now, they are requesting emergency aide from Washington.
13
Give us back the money we send to support the rest of the country. More money goes out of California than comes in.
2
Don't be ridiculous while your fellow Americans are in peril. In any event, California sends WAY more money to Washington than it gets back. Consider it a request for a partial refund.
2
Nice try --- There is no such petition.
3
Thanks for covering this. Infrastructure repairs are part of the story. But warm winter storms bringing rain instead of snow, causing massive, unseasonable runoff, have been predicted by climate models for a long time. That's also key piece of this story and I have not seen it reported yet.
31
Too bad reporters couldn't be bothered to drive 20 miles north to the city of Chico, where most of Oroville's evacuees were instructed to go, and which has mobilized heroically to accommodate the many thousands of them.
34
Prolonged drought conditions cause soil contraction, we've all seen the cracks that appear when a pond dries out. All earth dams are vulnerable to a similar scenario. Even the ground around concrete dams can have developed dangerous underlying structural conditions. Yes, this is part of regular infrastructure inspection, and maintenance that has been forced to go unattended due to lack of funding. Did anyone ever look into trying to send this surplus of water back down into depleted aquifers? Certainly not a simple feat, but if we can pump this sacred reserve out we should be able to send it back.
9
Everything you say might be true, but that does not decribe the situation here.
The problem was caused because the long concrete weir making up the emergency spillway emptied directly onto earth. The water flowing over it was not channeled into concrete. The heavy water flow eroded a gully in the bare earth. That gully eroded backward until it threatened to undermine the concrete weir, which would have led to its collapse.
The most depleted groundwater aquifers are hundreds of miles to the south of Oroville. There is no possible way that the amount of water needed to forestall an emergency at the dam could be transported that distance in such an emergency situation.
The problem was caused because the long concrete weir making up the emergency spillway emptied directly onto earth. The water flowing over it was not channeled into concrete. The heavy water flow eroded a gully in the bare earth. That gully eroded backward until it threatened to undermine the concrete weir, which would have led to its collapse.
The most depleted groundwater aquifers are hundreds of miles to the south of Oroville. There is no possible way that the amount of water needed to forestall an emergency at the dam could be transported that distance in such an emergency situation.
2
California has the largest number of illegal immigrants. Most of these people have little education, and so, have needed (and will continue to need) government subsidies and services that cost more than they pay in taxes. California politicians have found it politically expedient to underwrite the daily lives of illegal immigrants rather than to spend money on securing the viability of a dam and its spillways
16
Ann in Seattle, you need to review more sources of facts before opining on our economy in California. Undocumented workers in California pay $3.2 billion in California taxes each year with with an undocumented population numbering 3.1 million.
3
Nevada tops the list of states that have the most undocumented workers Ann, and in California it has dropped considerably in the last ten years, by the way. Thankfully, xenophobia is not a big problem here in California.
3
Ann, after Trump deports all the illegal immigrants, I look forward to your screechy whining about the cost of your produce, when it rises by 300% or so.
4
"5 Years of Drought in California, Then the Threat of Flood".
Or: had five years to get essential infrastructure fixed, in one of the highest taxed states in the nation, but, as usual, procrastinated and now has a major dam that could fail any time.
Classic California.
Or: had five years to get essential infrastructure fixed, in one of the highest taxed states in the nation, but, as usual, procrastinated and now has a major dam that could fail any time.
Classic California.
14
classic Monday morning quarter backing......its just a guess but I'll bet most folks now saying this were crying for tax relief thru those years....
1
The faulty design of the Oroville dam was approved and constructed during the governorship of Democrat, Pat Brown, the father of the current Governor, Democrat, Jerry Brown, who has served 15 years years as governor. Jerry Brown and his administrations have had many opportunities when setting the state budgets to have made the decision to spend funds to improve the safety of this 49 year old dam and protect the over 250,000 citizens who are at risk.
Gov. Brown and his administration chose not to spend the money it would have taken to upgrade the spillways by convincing themselves that climate change has created a "Permanent Drought" in California. They have denied the scientific evidence that for hundreds of years California routinely has periods of torrential rains approximately every 15 years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pineapple_Express
The many comments by readers blaming Republicans for this situation is a failure by partisan Democrats to be honest with themselves and with the public, and take responsibility for the poor decisions made by the Democrats who lead the state of California.
Gov. Brown and his administration chose not to spend the money it would have taken to upgrade the spillways by convincing themselves that climate change has created a "Permanent Drought" in California. They have denied the scientific evidence that for hundreds of years California routinely has periods of torrential rains approximately every 15 years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pineapple_Express
The many comments by readers blaming Republicans for this situation is a failure by partisan Democrats to be honest with themselves and with the public, and take responsibility for the poor decisions made by the Democrats who lead the state of California.
19
This isn't Breitbart sir.
48
No, it is not Breitbart. It is just the plain facts. To quote former VP, Al Gore, this is "An Inconvenient Truth." Please feel free to present alternative facts if you have them. If not, then I guess your only recourse is to attempt to deflect by casting aspersions on your fellow citizens who want to have an honest discussion. Sad...
1
Kevin, you do know there are plenty of problem infrastructure issues across the nation, regardless of party?
But hey, keep trying for your "gotcha" moment.
But hey, keep trying for your "gotcha" moment.
2
California is the sixth largest economy in the world, going up one ranking as France dropped to seventh place.
California sends to the federal government the largest percentage of taxes while being rated as the 44th in dependency on federal govt. funds.
Forty-four states receive a higher percentage of funds back from the fed govt. than other states paid.
As one of the bluest of the blue states, California contributes to offsetting the dependency of the red states who pay much less in federal taxes than they receive.
California is home to some of the most prestigious engineering schools in our country, and leads the country in energy efficiency.
It's my hope that California, if given the chance, will once again lead the nation in water reclamation, retention and recapture of rapid run-off, and next gen environmental engineering solutions to our rapidly expanding climate change.
If past is prologue- in the most positive meaning of the phrase- California will study the overflow problems of the dam on the Feather River- and in the future come up with both pragmatic and innovative solutions.
Wishing them the best as they deal with the rains coming later this week and all of my fellow countrymen the best in the short term.
California is one of the most beautiful states I've ever had the privilege to visit.
Less partisan politics- a reality based community vs Republican dogma and more science and math on the reader board of the NYT might be a good place to start.
California sends to the federal government the largest percentage of taxes while being rated as the 44th in dependency on federal govt. funds.
Forty-four states receive a higher percentage of funds back from the fed govt. than other states paid.
As one of the bluest of the blue states, California contributes to offsetting the dependency of the red states who pay much less in federal taxes than they receive.
California is home to some of the most prestigious engineering schools in our country, and leads the country in energy efficiency.
It's my hope that California, if given the chance, will once again lead the nation in water reclamation, retention and recapture of rapid run-off, and next gen environmental engineering solutions to our rapidly expanding climate change.
If past is prologue- in the most positive meaning of the phrase- California will study the overflow problems of the dam on the Feather River- and in the future come up with both pragmatic and innovative solutions.
Wishing them the best as they deal with the rains coming later this week and all of my fellow countrymen the best in the short term.
California is one of the most beautiful states I've ever had the privilege to visit.
Less partisan politics- a reality based community vs Republican dogma and more science and math on the reader board of the NYT might be a good place to start.
88
Agreed. And California, with earthquakes, floods, wildfires and drought, has much experience with natural disasters and mobilizes our own resources immediately, requiring less federal help than we might otherwise.
2
thank you, R McIntyre.
1
In 1964, Northern California flooded so badly that entire towns were washed away. The high water marks in Weott are 20 feet up in the trees. People were rowing boats down Main St in Mill Valley. The snow was so deep that when they finally opened Lassen Pass in late July, it was 20 feet deep on either side of the road.
In the 1850s, the entire Sacramento valley was under water.
California has a huge watershed, and occasionally gets heaps of rain. This is such a time.
Meanwhile in Oroville, the dam is stressed but it has not failed. They're managing it, but they should have concreted that emergency spillway. Anyone could see that all that water cascading down a hillside would cause it to erode.
In the 1850s, the entire Sacramento valley was under water.
California has a huge watershed, and occasionally gets heaps of rain. This is such a time.
Meanwhile in Oroville, the dam is stressed but it has not failed. They're managing it, but they should have concreted that emergency spillway. Anyone could see that all that water cascading down a hillside would cause it to erode.
17
This story has not been reported well. I've yet to see an explanation of why the spillway damage would cause flooding if the damn is in tact and not at risk.
3
Poking a hole in the side of an overfilled reservoir will cause just as mch flooding as a broken dam. D-A-M. Imagine a big hole forming in the earth next to the dam.
4
Had part of the emergency spillway given way, an enormous quantity of water would then flow through the breach and across the same eroding hillside below the spillway. I assume this would have started a chain reaction, causing the entire emergency spillway to collapse, endangering the main spillway and so on.
Just the loss of the emergency spillway structure would have allowed an enormous uncontrolled release of the top 30 feet of the reservoir.
Just the loss of the emergency spillway structure would have allowed an enormous uncontrolled release of the top 30 feet of the reservoir.
9
There are 2 damaged spillways involved. The main spillway is a concrete runway. It is in the picture accompanying this article and it is being used now. The emergency spillway is to the left of the dam and acts like the overflow drain on a bathtub. It is a long concrete weir, 30 feet high, to the side of the main spillway. It sits on top of a hill and is not a part of the dam. The emergency spillway runs into dirt only, not into any kind of concrete channel. When the water going over it eroded a large gully into that dirt, which then continued eroding backward toward the concrete weir. If the erosion had continued, the concrete would have been undermined to the point of collapse. That would have left a 30-foot-high gap through which the reservoir water would then rush. But because it is separate from the dam, even though there would be massive flooding, the dam itself would remain intact.
1
Im no expert but the State Water Authority seems to be doing a pathetic job . On Fri and Sat some beer belly official said" no need to worry we are closely monitoring it" On Sunday they panic and disrupt 200,000 people. Even yesterday at the press conference they are vague, evasive. No heavy rock yesterday on the emergency spillway. One lousy front loader and 2 grounded helicopters. The Army Corps of Engineers would be working 24/7.They keep saying due to earthquake risk dam should be about 60% full. Now is 100% full.Police are doing a good job but its like the fable of the Dutch boy with his fingers in the dyke.They temporarily turn off the main spillway but no attempt at dumping some rock in.where is Jerry Brown- navel gazing?The Feds need to step in now.Its going to rain Thurs and Friday so those poor people have to suffer more.The State water Authority is fighting this on the cheap and now they face a $180MM repair. pathetic- Your fired!
19
Off the meds again, Rick?
You tipped your Trumpist hand in your last sarcastic mimicing of the "president", and your broadside attack on the response to this very real crisis is ill-informed and malicious. We who are actually up here in Butte County are seeing this first-hand, and the official response has been everything we could ask for under the circumstances. Forgive us if we're not impressed by sarcastic carping from 180 miles away.
It took a decade to build this project, and if maintenance has been skimped on over the years, I blame the Republican "leadership" that has bedeviled our state until just the last few years with its penny-pinching shortsightedness.
As for your assertion that "the feds" need to step in, this is a state facility, and it's our primary responsibility to maintain it and respond to this potential failure of an overflow structure. Governor Brown has asked for a federal disaster declaration, and we could sure use all the help that can be mustered, but then, this is the Trump administration we're appealing to. Wanna hold your breath for that response while the water rises?
You tipped your Trumpist hand in your last sarcastic mimicing of the "president", and your broadside attack on the response to this very real crisis is ill-informed and malicious. We who are actually up here in Butte County are seeing this first-hand, and the official response has been everything we could ask for under the circumstances. Forgive us if we're not impressed by sarcastic carping from 180 miles away.
It took a decade to build this project, and if maintenance has been skimped on over the years, I blame the Republican "leadership" that has bedeviled our state until just the last few years with its penny-pinching shortsightedness.
As for your assertion that "the feds" need to step in, this is a state facility, and it's our primary responsibility to maintain it and respond to this potential failure of an overflow structure. Governor Brown has asked for a federal disaster declaration, and we could sure use all the help that can be mustered, but then, this is the Trump administration we're appealing to. Wanna hold your breath for that response while the water rises?
1
This is all part of the neglected infrastructure really started zealously by Reagan and Republicans who cut taxes and leave huge important things like dams, bridges, roads etc vulnerable. There is a reason we have taxes and one of them is to pay for things like this. When Schwarzenegger was governor he pulled the same thing. And he raided funds set aside that had been voted for other projects. So go ahead and vote for people who say they won't raise your taxes or will lower them but be prepared to have this kind of thing happen more and more.
125
At least we are getting a high speed rail!$$$$$
1
Seems strange to blame Republicans when the legislature has been Democrat for eons. I think there is plenty of blame to go around, most especially with the failing quasi-religion of climate change causing bad decision-making and the bureaucrats who should be doing a much better job.
We have similar problems in Washington State that is basically run by the people on the west side of the Cascades with all their millionaires and billionaires (think Gates, et. al.). We need good civil engineers to manage infrastructure but perish the thought they should be listened to and their recommendations acted upon.
We have something called the Alaskan Way Viaduct that "might" be vulnerable to "The Big One" that could have been fixed for 1.2 billion. Instead, the politicians wanted an "open waterfront with better views for the condo inhabitants" so they are digging a 4+ BILLION dollar tunnel with the largest drilling machine in the world that broke down and sat idle for over a year. The tunnel will carry no more traffic than the viaduct does today. Spit!!
Competence and good thinking are at a premium everywhere. As Henry Ford is reputed to have said "Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is why so few people engage in it." Such is our sad condition.
We have similar problems in Washington State that is basically run by the people on the west side of the Cascades with all their millionaires and billionaires (think Gates, et. al.). We need good civil engineers to manage infrastructure but perish the thought they should be listened to and their recommendations acted upon.
We have something called the Alaskan Way Viaduct that "might" be vulnerable to "The Big One" that could have been fixed for 1.2 billion. Instead, the politicians wanted an "open waterfront with better views for the condo inhabitants" so they are digging a 4+ BILLION dollar tunnel with the largest drilling machine in the world that broke down and sat idle for over a year. The tunnel will carry no more traffic than the viaduct does today. Spit!!
Competence and good thinking are at a premium everywhere. As Henry Ford is reputed to have said "Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is why so few people engage in it." Such is our sad condition.
2
Indeed. What you say is the big barely-spoken-about truth of the last 35 years. When will America wake up to the reality that we need *massive* tax increases for the next decade or longer in order to make even a small dent in the necessary investment in our infrastructure? We've been brainwashed by an endlessly-repeated mantra that lowering taxes is good, raising taxes is bad. There's nothing evil about taxation - it's what separates civilization from primitive societies. Anyone who's traveled to Europe or much of Asia in the last 10 years cannot help but be appalled upon returning to the U.S. at just how 3rd-world-like our urban environments by comparison have become: Our highways and airports are becoming a national embarrassment. And our railroads look like they belong in a museum of technology from British India of the 1840s. And we refuse even to pay our obscenely low minimum wage to employ people to keep our streets clean.
In case of catastrophe will the Trump be willing to provide aid, or will he turn away? CA still has republican members in the House. I imagine those seats are vulnerable to any Trump vindictiveness in the face of CA need. Kevin McCarthy, majority leader, would be a good place to start - last election, he had to scramble.
6
Years of neglecting infrastructure are making themselves felt more often. The investment needed to correct infrastructure defects and gaps ranks up with, and may exceed, our accumulated national debt.
11
Yes, thank you to 31 years of Republican "leadership" here since the dam was finished...
Interest rates and water levels both being low for the last ten years, it would have been a great time to fix all our dams....
13
or start taking some of them out and allowing rivers to do what they naturally do, which is flood and renew their flood plains. the best idea is not to build towns (or any dwellings) in the flood plain to begin with. for those that are there - offer a buyout. that's what happened on the Mississippi/Missouri after the 93 flood. much cheaper than the inevitable buy out of disaster relief and dam upkeep. dams are man made and like all things man made they are going to go away at some point.
no dams - no disaster relief - imagine the tax savings!
no dams - no disaster relief - imagine the tax savings!
Yeah, I know, people really hate dams these days, but California relies on water management to grow the enormous amount of crops they grow that feed the rest of us. They don't get a nice even distribution of rainfall year round; they have to manage their water.
2
I'm curious if they got the federal emergency declaration from 45.
7
Drought then flood, followed by another drought, then fire and then a flood to wash away everything the fire destroyed. Isn't this what climate change is all about? Total upheaval of everything we have known for millennia. All I can say is get used to it and try to figure out how to farm and exist in this new disruptive economy.
13
Actually, what you call climate change is climate cycle consistency. It is the same pattern that repeats itself over and over- especially in California.. What is shameful is our idiotic governor running around and trying to fix the blame on others (including Republicans and God) when he should have spent the taxpayers money fixing the on=going problem of inadequate spillways. Well that, other than the fact that he is the basis of the problem of lack of preparedness with his head stuck you know where...and his priority on his "train to nowhere' that no one wants, needs, or can afford.
11
Arnold Schwarzenegger was your governor before Brown. Why don't you blame some of this on him? The inadequacy of the emergency spillway was pointed out on his watch.
2
Will this convince Trump supporters that there are many, many, many better ways to spend $26 billion dollars than on a border wall with Mexico that a. Won't prevent anything, b. Will harm relations with Mexico and damage US reputation elsewhere? Spending money on that wall is just flushing money down the toilet. But, it takes a lot less thought to say "Build a wall" than to identify infrastructure projects all over the country.
93
Unfortunately, If it's not in their own back yards, I don't believe any of Trump's followers really care.
1
If California wants federal dollars, it may want to reconsider becoming a "sanctuary state."
1
The wall comes first.
There's a similar disaster looming with NYC's upstate reservoirs. Mismanagement leading to massive spills has increased flood crests during heavy rain events in the recent past - water cresting as much as SIX feet higher below the dams. But the warnings and pleas (going back 10 years) to change the dangerous practices that created these disasters have gone unheeded. Politicians have done nothing. Even this paper has refused to cover the story.
So, wait for it, folks. It's coming. A LOT closer to home.
So, wait for it, folks. It's coming. A LOT closer to home.
11
The nation is taking a snapshot at events in Oroville currently. Historically the geology of the area gives a better clue to current events unfolding. I can remember as a child when Marysville was a giant flood plain every winter. And California, a large part of it, is desert. It was the Central Valley water project which delivered gold to California farmers and controlled severe flooding. Yes, that was a government project and, yes, it has returned the investment thousands of times over. California is a huge state which includes several micro climates. This produces distinct regions which produce the diversity of value California provides to the world. This may have been facilitated by a severe turn in weather but there is much more to the story that needs to be explored if you are digging for roots.
69
just don't forget to add the local pork barrel flavor of all that dam building in the 60's and 70's...
The Central Valley Project is a federal system, based on Shasta Dam and the Sacramento River. Oroville is part of the California Water Project, a state project based on this dam and the Feather River, a tributary of the Sacramento far downstream at Verona, a few miles above Sacramento.
Each is a crucial part of our water infrastructure.
Each is a crucial part of our water infrastructure.
1
The original design considerations and geotechnical evaluations of the emergency spillway location have obviously not stood up to the reality shown these past few days. The "rock" conditions below and adjacent to the emergency spillway failed with a discharge of only some 12,600 cubic-feet-per-second against a design discharge of 450,000! The postmortem on this event should start with a reanalysis of the design and ground condition assumptions when the dam was built some 50 years ago.
The acting head of the California Department of Water Resources is totally disingenuous in stating that this is a new event and "we didn't know" what would happen. The original design said "no problem". Find out why that was wrong and apply it to other existing dams.
The acting head of the California Department of Water Resources is totally disingenuous in stating that this is a new event and "we didn't know" what would happen. The original design said "no problem". Find out why that was wrong and apply it to other existing dams.
17
Politicians have a difficult time getting a grip on a problem when their hands are greased.
2
And the so-called president is missing in action regarding this catastrophic event. He's too busy tweeting about Mark Cuban, CNN and his other perceived "enemies" on is list. Then again he may be thinking, California did not vote for me so I don't have to help the citizens there. SAD!
20
I'd appreciate seeing a map of the area and the potential flooding zone.
Not many of us know where exactly where Oroville dam is and the towns or communities surrounding it.
Not many of us know where exactly where Oroville dam is and the towns or communities surrounding it.
13
It is called google. Developed by Californians.
Always interesting when a local says" yes, we knew it was a flood prone area but it's been awhile..." - humans will build into every place they can, even when they know there is potential for disaster. Just in hope that the once in a lifetime catastrophe will be in someone else's lifetime
2
So.. Here we have bureaucrats who authorize the building of an INADEQUATE spillway instead of one that is usable. Hmmm, and we have more bureaucrats that say the current spillway is useless.
AND we have more bureaucrats that denied $$'s to shore up the spillway to something that is usable. This sounds a lot like gross incompetence. IF I was those effected I would bring a class action lawsuit against not just the California departments that made those decisions BUT go after the individuals that failed in their job. Incompetence should NOT be ignored.
AND we have more bureaucrats that denied $$'s to shore up the spillway to something that is usable. This sounds a lot like gross incompetence. IF I was those effected I would bring a class action lawsuit against not just the California departments that made those decisions BUT go after the individuals that failed in their job. Incompetence should NOT be ignored.
4
Engineers designed the dam and spillway. And it is 50 years old. You are going to have to dig up some graves to go after those responsible for the design.
1
The whole story about the dam just underlines one fact: the people who were raising alarm bells about California's lack of investment in its water infrastructure were right all along.
The concept of climate change implies dramatic - and unpredictable - changes in weather patterns; preparing for the worst by building up dams and reservoirs is only logical.
The concept of climate change implies dramatic - and unpredictable - changes in weather patterns; preparing for the worst by building up dams and reservoirs is only logical.
51
This was predictable. California is subject to torrential rains occasionally. Last year was supposed to be the dreaded monster el nino, but it was a bust. This year was supposed to be normal to dry, and look what happened.
It's like timing the stock market; you know it will happen but you can't predict when.
It's like timing the stock market; you know it will happen but you can't predict when.
It's ironic that the abundant supply of water for the area residents is now he source of danger. You can blame this event on lack of recognition, but then again how many "once in 40 years" type storms have we seen recently?
Let's see if America can rise to help arrest the issue -- but this will take time.
Let's see if America can rise to help arrest the issue -- but this will take time.
Can if flood during a 'drought'? Yes, a drought is a long term condition and a flood is short term and this is a very dumb article.
3
Gotta get ready for megadrought, except, oops, when it does rain a lot, our reservoirs break!
I think I've got to differ with you, though, as far as it does look to me like the trend right now is the drought is easing, based on the news I've been reading for a little while.
I think I've got to differ with you, though, as far as it does look to me like the trend right now is the drought is easing, based on the news I've been reading for a little while.
2
Good, but my comment was about the article suggesting that a flood would not occur during a drought that's all.
How was the Oroville Reservoir managed throughout the rainy season, before the rainfall pattern became clear? Most likely the goal was "store all the water that can possibly be stored".
Should more of it have been used for electricity generation, or to supply water at an earlier time?
Should more of it have been used for electricity generation, or to supply water at an earlier time?
1
What compounded the recent issue is the last set of storms where warm causing large amounts of snow to melt. Calculations of how much to release is based on short and long term conditions. The amount of storms are not that unusual and been planned for, but the primary spillway had been damaged causing the spillway to be shut-off for inspection while large amounts of run-off to empty into the lake. This allowed the lake to raise faster than they wanted. People understandably get concern when they release to much water early in the year but water resource people realize their are snow-packs and additional spring rain to come. Spring can be the worse storms. We got a long winter and spring ahead. I really don't think this story is going away.
An additional concern is the upcoming storms which can bring an additional 10 inches in the Feather River Canyon above the lake. 1st storm will be warm. My understanding right now, the local utility who runs hydroelectric power plants along the Feather River canyon are concern with these upcoming storms. The river is already seeing historic water levels and these storms could potential jeopardize power to the valley below-as well as the lake.
My heart goes out to all the people who are being displaced and they don't know for how long.
An additional concern is the upcoming storms which can bring an additional 10 inches in the Feather River Canyon above the lake. 1st storm will be warm. My understanding right now, the local utility who runs hydroelectric power plants along the Feather River canyon are concern with these upcoming storms. The river is already seeing historic water levels and these storms could potential jeopardize power to the valley below-as well as the lake.
My heart goes out to all the people who are being displaced and they don't know for how long.
9
It is sounding to me that shutting off the primary spillway for inspection was not a reasonable step to take, given that even the moderately long shutting off was at the point of putting flow onto the emergency spillway. The emergency spillway should've been known to be a no-good option.
I have looked at aerial photos after they moved the flow up to 100,000 cubic feet per second. It did not look like the primary spillway was going to go bad back any closer to the dam, only downhill from the gash in that primary spillway. That was my gut feeling while watching the aerial video.
I have looked at aerial photos after they moved the flow up to 100,000 cubic feet per second. It did not look like the primary spillway was going to go bad back any closer to the dam, only downhill from the gash in that primary spillway. That was my gut feeling while watching the aerial video.
"It’s a flood plain — we know the history of the area and understand sort of the realities of it. I think if anything the drought maybe caused a lot of us to kind of ease into forgetting about that,” Mr. Richter said."
Yes, reoccurring drought or torrential rains are nothing new to the region. This has nothing to do with Global Warming folks!
Yes, reoccurring drought or torrential rains are nothing new to the region. This has nothing to do with Global Warming folks!
3
Yes because unusual weather like long term droughts or non stop rains to the point of floods has nothing to do with global warming. Yeah.
1
Global warming or not this pattern has been consistent in California for centuries. The weather pattern here is "fire season, earthquake season, drought season, flood season, mudslide season."
Sorry but earthquakes are not part of the weather.
Why are there rice farmers in California? Rice requires obscene amounts of water, water which California is short of?
4
Because rice growing is done in the delta and the flooded fields are an important habitat for wildlife in particular migrating birds on the pacific flyway
13
Except when there is drought and water that should be allowed to run to the bay to preserve our ecosystem is diverted to keep the farmers in business. This wildlife habitat excuse is a convenient straw man for the agro lobby. We CAN have flooded marshes without rice agriculture.
That delta was important for wildlife long before there was an appetite for domestically grown rice. Growing rice just changes things around and doesn't do a thing for other less "important" species
the state of this infrastructure is a pretty sad commentary on how well local governments have done in maintaining infrastructure (for those who don't believe this to be typical they should also look at the disgraceful state of subway systems nationwide, especially in DC, NY).
4
I'd sure like an explanation over how a spillway failure can unleash a "30 foot wall of water." It doesn't make sense to me. How would it increase the water flow?
I'm wondering if the authorities are worried about a dam failure.
I'm wondering if the authorities are worried about a dam failure.
1
They worry about the failure of the auxillary spillway. Not the dam itself.
4
It's the 30-foot-tall emergency spillway to the side, not the main spillway, that is the concern.
3
You asked how a spillway failure woud unleash a 30-foot wall of water. If the doggone spillway were to erode away at a large gash, more and more water would flow through causing more and more erosion opening up a large amount (a 30-foot wall) of water. Remember that below the concrete lip, the auxiliary spillway was compose of earth piled up
2
I lived in northern California for eighteen years. It is a beautiful place.
My thoughts and prayers are with the people of this area.
My thoughts and prayers are with the people of this area.
14
High rates of unemployment and poverty don't make for a particularly mobile population, and those with whatever jobs are available are most likely going to earn $0 during however long this evacuation is in effect, a complete unknown at this point. Banks and utilities don't provide 0% interest or missed payment forgiveness during these events. My thoughts are with those people.
43
I bet lots of folks thing the dam itself is at risk of failure which is not true..and the water went down since the emergency spillway was used..the evacuation was of people who would be affected by flooding if...there was no emergency exactly
The Fukushima nuclear power plant was built to withstand a level 8 earthquake, which is huge. It got hit with a level 9, ten times worse. The chances of a level 9 were zip, but not zero. To have designed for a level 9 would have driven costs too high. Ditto for the Oroville dam. It was designed for all but the least probable events. And it got hit with a least probable event. No one is to blame. To make something perfect would cost an infinite amount.
3
@bob in NM - Nope, the Fukushima earthquake measured 6.9 to 7.4. It wasn't the earthquake that caused the power plant disaster, it was the resulting tsunami.
8
Your analysis is incorrect. The main problem is with the emergency spillway. It was supposedly designed to handle far more water than went over it on Sunday. (I can't find the relevant numbers right now, unfortunately.) But officials are being quoted as saying they didn't think it was ever going to be used.
If you read the article, you have seen that several environmental groups (and the Yuba County Water Agency) petitioned that the emergency spillway be fully made of concrete as part of the re-licensing process, pointing to the threat of erosion (which is exactly what happened). Their petition was denied.
If you read the article, you have seen that several environmental groups (and the Yuba County Water Agency) petitioned that the emergency spillway be fully made of concrete as part of the re-licensing process, pointing to the threat of erosion (which is exactly what happened). Their petition was denied.
2
The decision not to use concrete on the spillway was made by state water bureaucrats not politicians. The federal oversight commission agreed with their logic. This emergency spillway has been used once in 49 years. Continue to mount your soap boxes
10
Whats the point of having the emergency spillway if it does not work as designed?
A great example of infrastructure failure, that could have been addressed during the previous 6 years of Republican economic stagnation. How many other dams, levees, and bridges are in failure mode due to a congress that prioritizes a never ending war over the welfare of our people.
42
California has money for a train from LA to Frisco. Get your priorities straight.
5
Where was Barack "shovel-ready" Obama over the past eight years?
it doesn't help the evacuees, but in a larger sense that train may well be the bigger priority
It should be noted that this dam was built under Governor Reagan. People have been building dams for a thousand years and understand their function. The construction was underfunded which compromised the design.
17
Yes, and the 2005 report was ignored by Republican Gov. Schwarzenegger because Republicans want government to fail.
4
Check your facks, Pat. Oroville was started in 1961 when Edmund G. "Pat" Brown was Governor. Pat Brown was the father of the current governor, Jerry. Jerry is the guy who is building the $100 Billion bullet train, which won't be damaged if Oroville fails.
3
It was approved and built under Gov. Pat Brown, father of the current Governor. I believe it was completed just as Reagan was becoming Governor.
4
Good luck with your CalExit, California.
6
You think their "domestic product" (7th globally) can't handle this? The cost of a disaster would still be peanuts compared to what they hand the feds.
What were once 100 year floods seem to occurring once a decade.
9
Would appreciate more reporting on the emergency spillway fix, i.e. are the helicopters now flying to bring rock to fill in the eroded spillway and how successful are they expected to be in the time remaining before the new storms hit? Can they still fly during those storms? The eroded spillway looked like it had huge, deep and wide holes and I wonder how many hundreds or thousands of flights are estimated necessary to fill them. Guarding against further backward erosion toward the concrete weir itself seems to be the necessity here and do engineers think they now can keep maximal water flow going on the primary spillway without resorting again to the emergency one? Hard to imagine that they can allow the return of residents without high confidence of answers to such questions and there's plenty of more in depth reporting to be done. How are 200 thousand evacuees coping and for how long can they be expected to put their lives on hold?
It looks to me that 700 foot tall dams are too high for spillways because there is too much gravitational potential energy in the water undergoing such a huge drop. Hydroelectric dams discharge water at reduced altitude without such energy, because it has been converted to electricity.
12
Oroville does generate electricity, over 800 MW.
6
The damaged spillway is NOT the primary point of discharge management. The spillway is used only when the input of inflow exceeds the discharge capacity. When that excess discharge capacity is experienced, the emergency spillway comes into use. In this case the main spillway was damaged by hydraulic force, the auxillary spillway failed due to inadequate design and build criteria.
2
The present flow vastly exceeds the capacity of the turbines. Climate change will bring more extremes of both drought and flood than many existing systems were designed to withstand.
article – “ Astrological probable alerts for US in coming year 2017” - published in wisdom-magazine.com/Article.aspx/4387/- in December 2016 issue. If the link fails in locating the article , it could be alright to first go to the site by ticking wisdom-magazine.com to find Wisdom Magazine’s Monthly Webzine , then tick “ Article Archives” there followed by ticking “ The Heavens” for the purpose. February-March in the year 2017 were predicted to be of major worrisome concern. The following text from the article in relation to February- March is expected to be more than clear : “ The months of February and March in 2017 look to be bringing to surface for US , woes of economic nature which may upset heavily policy makers and rulers alike”. There is more : “ Health hazards may be in focus having substantial worry”. There is further more : “ Ambitious projects relating to power generation or nuclear energy may meet with delay”. So taking these alerts for US covering months of February and March 2017 , it can be said that this writer was somewhere accurate in figuring out the major worry involved in the danger posed by dam.
1
@kushal kamar - Sorry, but that's not prophetic, it's a group of vague pronouncements that some think apply after the fact if they stretch their imaginations to think it applies.
4
a reality check moment ...!
2
Investing in infrastructure is not a priority, building a new boarder wall is. Legislators seem to react only after the fact
17
This is a state water project not a federal one. Californians have voted twice to approve propositions providing bond funding for billions of dollars to shore up old water instrastructure and build new. Most of the money has been spent on studies.
This is a failure of leadership in California -- which is a single-party Democratic state. it has nothing to do with the federal government. Before the spillway blew, our state leaders were climbing over each other passing bills protesting Trump's presidency. They need to do their jobs.
This is a failure of leadership in California -- which is a single-party Democratic state. it has nothing to do with the federal government. Before the spillway blew, our state leaders were climbing over each other passing bills protesting Trump's presidency. They need to do their jobs.
6
Investing in infrastructure was never big, not with Democrats nor with Republicans. Our bridges and roads are crumbling, yet no one cares.
4
The drought and the flood are products of climatic disruption through anthropogenic emissions.
Science - broad pure science and research - is invaluable.
The forces of nature are nearly impossible to appreciate for all but the most educated.
Science - broad pure science and research - is invaluable.
The forces of nature are nearly impossible to appreciate for all but the most educated.
27
It is a natural flood plain, did you manage to grasp that part of the story? It has nothing to do with AGW.
1
By that, I presume, you mean you and not the rest of us?
I think all of the residents that evacuated get it!
I think all of the residents that evacuated get it!
actually, the more educated one is regarding the forces of nature the less likely one it is to assume an understanding.
The real loser here is Jerry Brown. He blew it in the early 70tish when he compared State workers, including the Department of Water Resources, to useless intestines and now again wasting money on environmental studies and climate change issues from a global perspective rather than just focusing on California. Considering that he owns private property not far from Oroville Dam and didn't see this coming shows dangerous incompetence. He should resign.
10
So California has its own weather now?
3
One can't help but think from the outside that this dam is America's new narrative metaphor. Who in the world can look away?
50
I can't decide...is this Bush's fault or Trump's fault?
In all seriousness...they need to listen...they were told the damn needed reinforcement a decade ago. Those folks were dismissed as alarmists.
In all seriousness...they need to listen...they were told the damn needed reinforcement a decade ago. Those folks were dismissed as alarmists.
19
Who was California governor in 2005? Arnold Schwarzegar, Republican and actor, host of Celebrity Apprentice.
Who is president in 2017? Donald J Trump, Republican and TV reality star, host of Celebrity Apprentice.
Who is president in 2017? Donald J Trump, Republican and TV reality star, host of Celebrity Apprentice.
7
A policy wonk said on PBS that improving the spillways was too costly - when will we dump these overpaid "experts"? They never expected this - live in California long enough and expect the unexpected. You don't need to look back too far to the storms in the 1970's. It doesn't take much in the way of brains to know the cost of the evacuation of 200,000 people and the loss of the towns. One of the people responsible for the manufactured energy "crisis" now works for the state on water planning. Let's fire these "wonks" and get some real thinkers in here. This would not be a problem if someone had listened to the environmentalists. Now it is a disaster! And all that water lost. Let's get the Dutch in here - they know about water.
39
What are you talking about, " water lost?" It's going to go downstream one time or another.
3
California should have been investing in infrastructure rather than spending its money on illegal immigrants and other numerous feel-good programs. Perhaps this is a good time to revisit the sanctuary policy. This is not a natural disaster, no need for federal funds, why not cut state spending and increase taxes. Hey, maybe some of those politically active "celebrities" will kick in some money.
25
And how is this not a natural disaster? This is extreme weather causing a structure to fail. Then by the same reasoning there was no need for federal funds for damage caused by hurricane Sandy and Katrina.
Note that California pays the most federal taxes so the "celebrities" are kicking in some money.
Note that California pays the most federal taxes so the "celebrities" are kicking in some money.
38
Californians already pay more federal tax per dollar than they ever glean in benefits. California helps pay for the other, as you call them, "feel good" programs in states like Florida and Alabama. Of course there's very little that feels good in those states if you're not well off and white. Of course, practically all the heavy Trump supporting states are already considered "tax friendly," that is, they let California, New York, and all the other states where Trump did not win the popular vote, pay for their hungry children and pathetically underpaid services for the disabled. So please explain about Californians needing to pay more taxes...
17
You have no clue about California. Turn off Fox "News" and Limbaugh, navigate away from Breitbart, and stop typing talking-point drivel to the New York Times. We in California are now several years into rebuilding our fiscal health and ability to build and manage critical infrastructure after five decades dominated by Republican governors and a stubborn GOP minority that misused Prop. 13's supermajority taxation rules to obstruct real-world planning and implementation. Our undocumented population is part of our economy and a net gain, not the dead-weight drag you imagine from the other side of the continent.
Every 18 to 19 years, cyclic conditions force an "atmospheric river" of dense moisture to flow directly across the heart of the Sierras. We call it the "Pineapple Express". We can expect this same pattern in 2035
Few people know that during the latter part of the Civil War, my little-populated State was struck by this phenomena and the entire ranching economy was destroyed. Massive flooding changed the course of the Los Angeles and Santa Ana Rivers into the channels we see today. This was followed by several years of severe drought, and California was forced into bankruptcy.
If you ever visit the southern half of my state, and you see the gigantic concrete channels criss crossing Los Angeles, this weather is precisely why they were built. I'm surprised that this hasn't happened elsewhere.
Few people know that during the latter part of the Civil War, my little-populated State was struck by this phenomena and the entire ranching economy was destroyed. Massive flooding changed the course of the Los Angeles and Santa Ana Rivers into the channels we see today. This was followed by several years of severe drought, and California was forced into bankruptcy.
If you ever visit the southern half of my state, and you see the gigantic concrete channels criss crossing Los Angeles, this weather is precisely why they were built. I'm surprised that this hasn't happened elsewhere.
55
In that flood of 1861, the entire Sacramento Valley was flooded. So we're huge parts of Oregon and Nevada. It happens.
2
Like the builders of Titanic, who never thought lifeboats would be needed and thus condemned thousands to drown, so the builders of this dam have similarly demonstrated the human capacity for unlimited self-delusion.
16
if only taxpayers were willing to pay for all these resources demanding their money. Plus the quality of the civil service would be needed to be improved to insure better maintenance. Not likely.
2
Of course there were lifeboats on the Titanic, do your research. They had 20 on board, enough to accommodate 1,178 people.
1
The wrongheadedness of the Oroville project goes way back. It is thought that an earthquake in the area was caused by the sheer weight of the dam, a 700 foot tall concrete structure that is the highest of its kind in the world. The damage to aquatic life has been incalculable. And why do we do it? Because developers insist on building in areas that don't have the water resources to support highwater-use human populations. As Lynn notes, Republicans in CA as well as at the federal level, with their wrong-headed Grover Nordquist "pledge" mentalities, have been making infrastructure investments impossible with endless obstructionism.
Well, there's one saving grace: maybe the 180,000 people who now have no place to live for the indefinite future can stay in Trump's hotels.
Well, there's one saving grace: maybe the 180,000 people who now have no place to live for the indefinite future can stay in Trump's hotels.
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The Oroville dam was approved and constructed during the governorship of Democrat, Pat Brown, the father of current Governor, Jerry Brown. Your blaming Republicans is misplaced.
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More than 80% of our water goes to agriculture, not "high water use human populations". If the rest of you could feed yourselves...
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Developers don't create consumers. They respond to demand. It's a cop-out to always blame "corporatists" or the profit motive or real estate robber barons for these land use predicaments. If homes are built on eroding coastlines, or flood plains, or earthquake faults, or if we want to live in previously remote wilderness locations and enjoy all the modern conveniences, well then we all are to blame. Blaming developers (I'm not one) when buyers buy what they develop makes for a nice protest slogan, but by shifting responsibility elsewhere it changes nothing.
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Didn't California's governor say last year that the state was in a "permanent drought"? Huh, I guess not.
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saying the drought is over is like saying global warming is over because it is snowing. This rain is obviouisly some of the climatic catastrophe's predicted with the global warming model. Over all, the prognosis for California is less water, really drought. And don't forget, most of the state gets it's water from the Colorado river, that doesn't even reach the Pacific anymore because we take all the waer for human use already. Last I checked, the Colorado is not getting wetter..
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A stitch in time saves nine, but don't ever expect a Republican to look further ahead than the tip of their nose.
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And what did the Democrats of California do to plan ahead and avert this disaster?
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A Republican? You are seriously out of step...
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Why beat up on just the Republicans? Do you think the Democrats are better? After all, both serve their corporate masters.
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Once more -- an unimpeachable reason for the Feds to put massive funds into infrastructure across the nation. California, for one, needs yuuge updating in the way it manages water. When it does rain - so much of it is sloshed across concrete and blacktop and out into sea...never having a chance to be absorbed and replenish aquifers.
We are managing resources based on early 20th-century knowledge and standards.
We are managing resources based on early 20th-century knowledge and standards.
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Once more -- an unimpeachable reason for the Feds to put massive funds into infrastructure across the nation.
so the dam is poorly maintained and it is the responsibility of the federal govt to pay for it.
so the dam is poorly maintained and it is the responsibility of the federal govt to pay for it.
Maybe California can rethink their own budget and begin investing on our state. I hate the idea that the Feds are expected to do everything for us. Let's get our own house in order.
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As an engineer, I am very familiar with the claim that it is too expensive to build the implement the solution that the calculations show is required. "We just can't justify the expense," is the excuse. This same excuse has been applied to the climate change situation, and others down the line will pay dearly.
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Idiotic comparison. The structural impairment of the dam is in no way comparable to concerns over gradual climatic warming.
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The California state water board voted to keep the water restrictions in place state wide on Wednesday. State wide! Save the Oroville dam and take an extra long shower. Maybe even take a bath.
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@Jim - One unusually rain/snow episode doesn't mean the drought is over. The natural state for a fair part of California in the past has been desert.
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The drought is over some parts of NORTHERN California. The drought is not over in SOUTHERN California. California is a big state. We have a variety of ecosystems from the mountains to the desert. Check out a map.
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Do some journalism. Who made the 2005 request for maintenance and who, exactly, rejected it?
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They state the group who requested the maintenance and that the state rejected the request. They also quote the current head of the CA Dept of Water re not having records of the request.
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Actually 3 environmental groups: Friends of the River (mentioned), the Sierra Club, and the South Yuba Citizens League. The Yuba County Water Agency also joined in the request.
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So who bears the cost of helicopters flying in rocks to hopefully mitigate the washout? Has no one figured out that, unless the rocks are the size of the helicopters themselves (unlikely), the same water force that created the erosion will likewise just sweep the rocks away downstream? Our government in action.....ignore the cost, look like you're doing something to palliate the constituency's fears, the outcome will be what it is, and nobody is responsible. Unreal.
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So Jack, you understand the fluid mechanics and what size of rocks will wash away? Maybe stick to Florida and look at the money wasted there in flood mitigation, supplying fresh drinking water, etc.
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Read "The Johnstown Flood" by David McCullough -- it's a very similar scenario. If the spillway goes the hillside rapidly erodes and the dam breaks. Let's hope the crews can do emergency repairs and get ready to care for the people if the worst happens.
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that was a good book but that dam was built by plutocrats for an artificial lake for their exclusive use. Plus they were not held accountable for the disaster afterwards.
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You are factually wrong. The whole hillside down which the spillways drop is not at all in danger. It is simply the foundation of the overflow weir that started to cavitate and erode dangerously. If the foundation fails, the weir could fall over, down the hill. The weir is 30 feet hight, so the topmost 30 feet of lake water would be released uncontrollably with the weir gone or severely breached. That release would vastly exceed the flow capacity of the Feather River downstream from Oroville.
If the whole dam were in danger, everything from Sacramento to the Bay Area would be under evacuation. Thirty feet of water is one thing; 700 feet is orders of magnitude worse.
The dam is secure and in no structural danger. Johnstown was a crappy local dam that suddenly gave way altogether.
If the whole dam were in danger, everything from Sacramento to the Bay Area would be under evacuation. Thirty feet of water is one thing; 700 feet is orders of magnitude worse.
The dam is secure and in no structural danger. Johnstown was a crappy local dam that suddenly gave way altogether.
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Will anyone profit from this incident to reflect on the implications of building a dam this high, creating a lake this large, primarily to supply water to a city built in a desert hundreds of miles to the south?
Angelenos to whom this winter's rains raised the agreeable prospect of being able to fill both their swimming pools may face a completely different baseline in water use.
Angelenos to whom this winter's rains raised the agreeable prospect of being able to fill both their swimming pools may face a completely different baseline in water use.
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Nancy, about 80% of all the water that courses through our states water system is used by agriculture. LA, and the other cities, use the other 20%.
If the rest of the nation could feed itself, Cali might have a free flowing river to the sea.
If the rest of the nation could feed itself, Cali might have a free flowing river to the sea.
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@jeff - No one forced California to build an agricultural business across miles of desert in the Central Valley. That was someone's decision based on profit, and the "rest of the nation" adjusted according to supply and demand.
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If California agriculture had not convinced the nation that it needs asparagus and strawberries year-round, 69-ct lettuce, and almonds in everything from salads to wheaties, maybe the rest of us could make a living raising food for our own communities.
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If more rain is looming, now is time to implement rain prevention technology.
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The real questions are why was this allowed to continue if the dam was falling apart was there any upkeep of the dam?
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The dam is not falling apart. Erosion from the high water level has undermined the main spillway, which is a separate structure to channel over-flow.
Its failure may have been due to the past years of drought, when the lake was at 30% of capacity, and the earthen embankment that supports the spillway became dried out, shrunken or permeable.
The question is whether something could or should have been done to stabilize the spillway before its capacity was stressed. But no one expected rains equal to 200% of normal.
Its failure may have been due to the past years of drought, when the lake was at 30% of capacity, and the earthen embankment that supports the spillway became dried out, shrunken or permeable.
The question is whether something could or should have been done to stabilize the spillway before its capacity was stressed. But no one expected rains equal to 200% of normal.
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The dam was not falling apart. Excessive rain was in effect causing it to wash away. If you want to argue that the dam was not constructed correctly in the first place, that is a different matter.
Why was there no upkeep of the dam? Why is there insufficient upkeep of all of the infrastructure in the US?
Why was there no upkeep of the dam? Why is there insufficient upkeep of all of the infrastructure in the US?
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The area is high in poverty and unemployment, and has a large presence of homeless people. Call me cynical, but I do think that contributes quite big a part to the lack of maintenance.
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" Environmental groups, including Friends of the River, a California-wide organization, requested in 2005 that the state cover the hillside with concrete. The request was rejected."
In 2005, California had a Republican Governor.
Republicans instinctively oppose both investing in infrastructure and listening to warnings from environmental groups. The cost of failure to heed warnings can far exceed the cost of timely investment.
In 2005, California had a Republican Governor.
Republicans instinctively oppose both investing in infrastructure and listening to warnings from environmental groups. The cost of failure to heed warnings can far exceed the cost of timely investment.
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The momentum of climate change builds every day.
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Hindsight is always 20-20 and you convienently left out the art of the article that said the engineering experts through the spillway would not erode-
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The cost of failure to repair infrastructure always exceeds timely investment.
Also, the cost of electing so called conservatives always exceeds the cost of electing liberals for at least two reasons. The misnamed conservatives never conserve anything. And the cost of cleaning up their messes always exceeds what it would have cost had liberals been elected. The last time the above assertion was wrong was during the Eisenhower administration. Remember?
Also, the cost of electing so called conservatives always exceeds the cost of electing liberals for at least two reasons. The misnamed conservatives never conserve anything. And the cost of cleaning up their messes always exceeds what it would have cost had liberals been elected. The last time the above assertion was wrong was during the Eisenhower administration. Remember?
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