What is broken is the average length of a game. The easiest and simplest way to fix it is to go back to the past. Make it a rule that a team can only carry a ten man pitching staff. That was never a rule but it was standard practice for decades and it would make comparison between today's game and history's game much easier. Not to mention it would make the modern game much more exciting and way shorter.
Once upon a time, not every baseball game was televised. Time between innings, about two minutes. Now, every game on some form of television. Time between innings, four minutes or more. That alone adds about 36 minutes or more to game times. Gee, I wonder if networks would cut commercial time...
1
I better solution would be to reduce the players in the FIELD. Start the 10th with 8, 11th with 7 and so forth. Eventually, just a lonely guy on the mound with no one to throw to...
I became I became a diehard baseball fan at the age of 16 the weekend Rocky Colavito and Gene Michael pitched. Lindy McDaniel pitched 7 innings of perfect relief on a Friday night game that was suspended by the old rule not allowing an inning to start after 1AM. The Yanks played 18 innings that night but because it was suspended, nothing counted. This meant the Yanks and Tigers had to play a double header on Saturday as well as the regularly scheduled Sunday doubleheader. What's not to like?
Selig, Manfred, and Torre are so hot tom tinker---we have catcher rules, second base rules, speed up the game rules and now replay rules. If you want to speed up the game comer up with a "La Russa Rule" governing the unnecessary and incessant trips to the bullpen,. MLB has turned into basketball where the last minutes morphed into a half hour.
I'm not sure what I think about the extra innings solution, but starting an inning with a runner on 2nd and ONE OUT should eliminate the motivation for sacrificing him over to 3rd.
Thanks.
Well said.
Right now, I am living in india where cricket is a king.
The cricket organization, so called ICC had gone in the opposite direction for a while.
In the name of making cricket more popular, under pressure from a YUGE market of India, the so called ICC restricted first class games to perennial power houses of India, england, Australia, south Africa and new Zealand.
This was to ensure that the YUGE market in india is tuned, it ensures that india will play at least in the final 4.
This led to predictable consequences.
Recently, so called ICC reversed up to a certain point to start distributing more money to develop cricket around the world including outliers like Holland and USA
More they change, more it remains the same.
Well said.
Right now, I am living in india where cricket is a king.
The cricket organization, so called ICC had gone in the opposite direction for a while.
In the name of making cricket more popular, under pressure from a YUGE market of India, the so called ICC restricted first class games to perennial power houses of India, england, Australia, south Africa and new Zealand.
This was to ensure that the YUGE market in india is tuned, it ensures that india will play at least in the final 4.
This led to predictable consequences.
Recently, so called ICC reversed up to a certain point to start distributing more money to develop cricket around the world including outliers like Holland and USA
More they change, more it remains the same.
Leave the game as it is. If I have to go, I will go.
The ball park is a place to go relax, have a dog, and a beer. I do not go to clock watch.
Like the Beatles said, "Let it Be".
The ball park is a place to go relax, have a dog, and a beer. I do not go to clock watch.
Like the Beatles said, "Let it Be".
1
I have two suggestions. First, every run in extra innings counts for 2. It won't have any effect on anything, but it would be cool. Second, they stop selling beer after the 7th inning - if a game goes extra innings, they should re-open the bars.
The answer, dear Georgius, is not in the stars, it is in the money.
1
I had just finished my freshman year in college when I went to that Mets Giants doubleheader at Shea.
My friend and I left early in the second game when the Mets fell way behind.
We met his parents in Brooklyn for dinner. It dragged on but eventually I made it home. My dad was watching the game--somewhere in the 18-19 inning. I was stunned that they were still playing. He didn't understand why I'd left. I did then but I don't now.
Leave baseball alone.
My friend and I left early in the second game when the Mets fell way behind.
We met his parents in Brooklyn for dinner. It dragged on but eventually I made it home. My dad was watching the game--somewhere in the 18-19 inning. I was stunned that they were still playing. He didn't understand why I'd left. I did then but I don't now.
Leave baseball alone.
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"Why this obsession to mess with what ain’t broke? Baseball already screwed up a hallowed sport by allowing the designated hitter. Now it’s got wild-card games. Gimmicks."
Hear, hear. And bravo...
Hear, hear. And bravo...
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Don't forge that gimmick of gimmicks...interleague play.....it's all a travesty..
3
As usual George you are bang on!
4
What's the next step? Bringing in pitching machines in the 11th? Or maybe T-ball in the 12th? Like the designated hitter, this is a bad idea and it rules great moments in baseball--for instance, playing pitchers in the outfield, as the Cubs did occasionally this year.
2
While dating, if it was serious enough to contemplate marriage, I took the woman to baseball games. If a game went to extra innings, and the woman wanted to leave, I knew that relationship wouldn't work out in the long run (nor would cases where late inning games with a lopsided score unfolded). I once chose to live in St. Louis instead of Kansas City when a promotion required a move from Pittsburgh because KC is an AL city. We all know what's wrong with that. Tradition matters.
3
Even the softball gimmick doesn't go into effect until the THIRD extra inning.
Regulation games are seven innings, and the runner on second starting the inning starts the tenth, not the eighth. (I'm a retired youth softball coach)
If the baseball grandees want to try it, have it for the top of the 15th...
The kleptocrats of FIFA have increased the number of matches at a WC final tournament, but have, unknowingly, devalued qualifying matches to near zero.
Now instead of, say, Sweden being the best team not at a WC tournament, it might be Scotland.
And by doing away with simultaneous last group matches, they invite the "biscotto," most egregiously seen in your first World Cup, an arranged 1-0 win by West Germany over Austria that had thousands of neutral Spanish fans in Gijon whistling in derision for 80 minutes after Hrubesch scored.
FIFA is motivated by greed. MLB by sheer laziness.
Regulation games are seven innings, and the runner on second starting the inning starts the tenth, not the eighth. (I'm a retired youth softball coach)
If the baseball grandees want to try it, have it for the top of the 15th...
The kleptocrats of FIFA have increased the number of matches at a WC final tournament, but have, unknowingly, devalued qualifying matches to near zero.
Now instead of, say, Sweden being the best team not at a WC tournament, it might be Scotland.
And by doing away with simultaneous last group matches, they invite the "biscotto," most egregiously seen in your first World Cup, an arranged 1-0 win by West Germany over Austria that had thousands of neutral Spanish fans in Gijon whistling in derision for 80 minutes after Hrubesch scored.
FIFA is motivated by greed. MLB by sheer laziness.
3
George has it wrong on the DH.
It allows some position players who might otherwise not play all that much or that well (for any number of reasons) contribute and it allows for days of partial rest for other position players.
What's more, there are few things more boring in baseball than watching a pitcher pretend to be a batter.
The AL got it right on this one, the NL needs to get with the program.
It allows some position players who might otherwise not play all that much or that well (for any number of reasons) contribute and it allows for days of partial rest for other position players.
What's more, there are few things more boring in baseball than watching a pitcher pretend to be a batter.
The AL got it right on this one, the NL needs to get with the program.
3
Maranan, having grown up in the days of Bob Gibson, Don Drysdale, Tom Seaver, the only thing standing between pitchers and basic competence as hitters is the commitment to practice.
And teams whose pitchers can hit, or at least bunt, have a competitive advantage over those that don't bother.
And teams whose pitchers can hit, or at least bunt, have a competitive advantage over those that don't bother.
4
Football is a "60 minute" game, but the actual games are 3 hours long. Pro basketball is a "48 minute" game, but can last close to 3 hours. The beauty of baseball is there are no clocks to determine how long the game should take. Attendance is high and fans don't want gimmicks. If anything should have to change, it should be the extra time for commercials in between innings of nationally broadcast games. Those TV breaks tack on an extra 36 minutes!
4
Of course it's greed. It's not about sport. Hasn't been for years. MJ got rich from endorsements, not from games. The games get altered to generate more games, TV time, and ad revenue. Even fans at the stadium aren't fans at a stadium any more but just the studio audience at a TV show.
NFL games are at 1:00 and 4:30 p.m. Eastern, with evening games at 8:30. Rules change so more ads can be aired. The clock used to stop every time the ball went out of bounds. That changed so more ads could be aired. Some day, they'll start the clock when the ball is placed at the line of scrimmage after incomplete passes. Gotta sell more beer.
But ... in minor league baseball they try to prolong the careers and guard the health of the prospects. Nothing wrong with a doubleheader having 7-inning games. Why not get rid of long extra-inning games in the minors by using a softball rule? How do you feel about penalty shootouts in hockey and soccer? Why do they have to throw four pitches to give someone an intentional walk? Why isn't overtime sudden death? Why does it end with a touchdown but not a field goal? Why have overtime at all? What's wrong with a tie in football?
It's not sport today, it's business. It's not about individual teams competing against each other any more. Now it's about sport itself competing for your entertainment dollar against the play, movie, museum, or other amusement you might spend it on. How can you blame a business for adapting its product to the marketplace?
NFL games are at 1:00 and 4:30 p.m. Eastern, with evening games at 8:30. Rules change so more ads can be aired. The clock used to stop every time the ball went out of bounds. That changed so more ads could be aired. Some day, they'll start the clock when the ball is placed at the line of scrimmage after incomplete passes. Gotta sell more beer.
But ... in minor league baseball they try to prolong the careers and guard the health of the prospects. Nothing wrong with a doubleheader having 7-inning games. Why not get rid of long extra-inning games in the minors by using a softball rule? How do you feel about penalty shootouts in hockey and soccer? Why do they have to throw four pitches to give someone an intentional walk? Why isn't overtime sudden death? Why does it end with a touchdown but not a field goal? Why have overtime at all? What's wrong with a tie in football?
It's not sport today, it's business. It's not about individual teams competing against each other any more. Now it's about sport itself competing for your entertainment dollar against the play, movie, museum, or other amusement you might spend it on. How can you blame a business for adapting its product to the marketplace?
1
For argument's sake, let's stipulate that there is some validity to the proposal. Most extra inning games end by the 12th inning. So why not implement this proposal as of the 13th inning (or pick your own compromise inning)? It would preserve most of the integrity of the extra inning game, while addressing the concern about over-using pitchers or bringing in position players to pitch. I would also point out that it more or less approximates soccer's penalty kick solution for otherwise endless contests.
2
Compared with many other major sports, baseball has a certain purity that mustn't be disturbed. You can't run out the clock or take a knee. You have to get 27 outs, or 30 or maybe even 45, to win a game. And, by the way, both teams have to bat in extra innings - unlike football where one team can score a touchdown in OT without the other team touching the ball; even to decide the championship. MLB, leave it alone.
3
Exactly right. 48 teams in the World Cup means games played in empty stadiums, and a decrease in quality.
In reality the World Cup does not have the "magic" of years past, as top players now play in the Premier League, Bundesleague, La Ligue, etc., and the Champions league provides a yearly tournament for top players.
In reality the World Cup does not have the "magic" of years past, as top players now play in the Premier League, Bundesleague, La Ligue, etc., and the Champions league provides a yearly tournament for top players.
1
The reason they run out of pitchers is because of the incessant changing of pitchers for no apparent reason in the eighth inning. It is interminable, bring in a left handed pitcher-let him pitch to one batter, visit the mound, take him out or maybe let him pitch to the next left handed batter, visit the mound again, watch someone warm up. Maybe there's an advantage to using three pitchers in the eighth inning, maybe not, but the tradeoff is you run out of pitchers in the twelfth.
Minor leagues perhaps are different, since the games are meaningless why ruin someone's arm or play until 3 AM if there's no one there to watch, but major league games have been gimmicked up enough. I say limit pitching changes to one an inning. Enough over-managing and wasting everyone's time.
Minor leagues perhaps are different, since the games are meaningless why ruin someone's arm or play until 3 AM if there's no one there to watch, but major league games have been gimmicked up enough. I say limit pitching changes to one an inning. Enough over-managing and wasting everyone's time.
2
Another solution (in the spirit of comparing baseball and soccer) is simply to allow tie games, except for playoffs. If, say, at the end of the 10th (or the 12th or whatever) there is still no winner, declare it a draw.
All this is based on the idea that baseball's popularity has suffered because of the length of the games. Personally I'm not at all convinced. There's a good possibility that changing things will not make any difference at all.
But if they have to try something, this idea seems to me much more reasonable, less drastic a change to baseball's traditions. After all, in the days before electric lighting, they had to stop when it got dark anyway.
All this is based on the idea that baseball's popularity has suffered because of the length of the games. Personally I'm not at all convinced. There's a good possibility that changing things will not make any difference at all.
But if they have to try something, this idea seems to me much more reasonable, less drastic a change to baseball's traditions. After all, in the days before electric lighting, they had to stop when it got dark anyway.
2
I find it ridiculous that MLB claims to be trying to speed up game on one hand
And then they introduce "challenges" which can take from 90 seconds to 4+ minutes. Worse these challenges happen EVERY game by both teams.
This softball idea is just another gimmick to try and speed up game.
Hopefully it will not come to pass.
And then they introduce "challenges" which can take from 90 seconds to 4+ minutes. Worse these challenges happen EVERY game by both teams.
This softball idea is just another gimmick to try and speed up game.
Hopefully it will not come to pass.
1
I would agree that the idea of putting a man on 2nd base at the beginning of extra innings is a bad idea. It would be better to enforce the existing rules to speed up the interval between pitches, and possibly cut down on the number of times catchers and coaches can visit the mound.
Here's a more radical solution: cut down on the number of pitcher changes. Establish a limit per inning or per game.
Here's a more radical solution: cut down on the number of pitcher changes. Establish a limit per inning or per game.
2
The World Cup should expand . It should be a celebration of internationallsm. It will not hurt the top teams. What's the problem?
Joe: The most powerful European Leagues have seasons that start in August and end in May. Those league clubs pay e players' salaries, not the National Teams.
Going to 48 teams will likely be xtend the WC from 35 days to somewhere between 42 and 49 days.
Are we asking for the top players to have NO time off between seasons?
Going to 48 teams will likely be xtend the WC from 35 days to somewhere between 42 and 49 days.
Are we asking for the top players to have NO time off between seasons?
2
Paul. According to what I read, the plan is to complete the WC in the same number of days (32). So that should not be an issue. Also, some national federations do award some extra money to players. And it is only once every 4 years. AND, a great player (think Obramovich, or Bales for example) has a better chance to play in a WC if he happens to play for a smaller nation team. So, I really don't see a downside.
Joe, I went in person to the 1982 Workd Cup, so far, the only time three team groups have been tried, in the second phase. Of the 4 three team second phase groups, only one, the famed Argentina, Brazil & Italy group produced compelling football of the highest order. In the other one I saw, Poland surprisingly raked over Belgium in the opening match, 3-0. When the USSR could only beat the Belgians by 1-0 (with the first match rout, Belgium was virtually eliminated, and demoralized) it set up a decider where Poland needed only a draw to advance, and the worst match of the 16 I attended, the only nil draw I saw, a soporific affair not enlivened by 105 degree temperature. In fact, the only memorable moment was the unfurling of a colossal "Solidarnosc" banner in the empty upper deck of the Nou Camp. In the other bracket, England, compelling in group play, was played to consecutive nil draws by Spain and West Germany. The Germans barely attacked, saving themselves for the final match, where they beat the hosts 2-1 to get to the Semi. In the final liguilla group, France all but won the group by opening with a 4-1 thrashing.
There will be negative, tentative play, and with two of three teams advancing, the stronger teams will nod and wink it at the expense of the minnows, more obvioys in a 48 team field.
With two teams going through, and no simultaneous final group matches, the chance for chicanery by the last two teams playing, if a particular score guarantees both passage.
There will be negative, tentative play, and with two of three teams advancing, the stronger teams will nod and wink it at the expense of the minnows, more obvioys in a 48 team field.
With two teams going through, and no simultaneous final group matches, the chance for chicanery by the last two teams playing, if a particular score guarantees both passage.
1
George: As for soccer: Its all about the almighty dollar! Not the game. As for baseball, who cares.
4
And then, of course, there's hockey. The NHL season used to end in April when the ice got soft. Now the NHL season ends in mid-June when there is no ice especially in teams like Phoenix, Las Vegas, Tampa, Miami and Dallas. Greed knows no bounds.
12
Instead of "teams," substitute "cities." Not just in the sun belt. The ice at MSG is notoriously uneven late in seasons, which might help explain the Rangers' current drought. That and the bad karma of Jimmy Dolan ownng the franchi$e...
2
3 hour game, almost 2 hours in the car door to door 250 for tickets and a C note for food. Somethings got to give.