A family values story...the mother of two American children deported. How do those Americans who claim religious self-righteousness reply to that?
13
With recurrent amnesties, the illegals will just keep on coming. It needs to stop. We have a right to control the number of immigrants; our resources are not infinite. Expand the guest worker program if we need to. Compel employers to verify status and prosecute the ones who don't. Why is this so difficult for our government?
30
Article states that deporting illegals is causing hardship to the family left behind in the U.S. The husband is also illegal. The family should be kept together and deported. Those that harbored them all these years in the U.S. are also guilty of harboring a criminal and should be deported. And then for more illegals to have the nerve to protest! Try protesting in Mexico. See what happens.
34
Trying to imagine how this woman posed a threat to the nation' security. Another victim of the President's reality show policies.
15
I am extremely sympathetic the the Latin American community's fear. I volunteer with migrants teaching English. I marched in DC for immigrants and against the new administration. I worked almost 2 years for Hillary Clinton. I am a proud progressive however.....
How in the world can a person live 35 years in a country and not speak the language she knows is the language of the place she lives, raises her family and lives?
This is the fight I fight with children of immigrants who hear nothing but another language in the home. It is the difference many times between Latino immigrants and other immigrants and i am certain that it is the reason Latinos are among the lowest paid group in the US.
BTW, I lived as a middle aged woman with a small child in Latin America. I learned to speak Spanish at the age of 45. It was hard but I did it because I had to.
How in the world can a person live 35 years in a country and not speak the language she knows is the language of the place she lives, raises her family and lives?
This is the fight I fight with children of immigrants who hear nothing but another language in the home. It is the difference many times between Latino immigrants and other immigrants and i am certain that it is the reason Latinos are among the lowest paid group in the US.
BTW, I lived as a middle aged woman with a small child in Latin America. I learned to speak Spanish at the age of 45. It was hard but I did it because I had to.
23
The tech companies want open immigration to reduce the cost of tech workers. Developers want open immigration to bring in cheap labor for construction. Farms don't want to pay what they should for wages and rather pay undocumented cash to bring down cost. This woman's case represents so many others who came here and have put pressure on the labor market and reduced income for all who are here legally or born here. Send her back to her country and have Mexico negotiate her return with the United States. It's their responsibility not ours. What is Mexico willing to do for their citizens. Hey I just found a way to pay for the wall.
36
I don't understand why she never began the process of applying for citizenship, even if it meant returning to Mexico and starting there. I'm also interested to know if the family regularly paid federal and state taxes and Social Security, or just freeloaded. Are back taxes collected from illegal immigrants before they are deported? A tight labor market historically raises wages - so farmers will have to raise wages to attract workers, improving wages for both legal immigrants and others who want to work in agriculture, and giving them money to spend in local communities.
25
Yes it is Sad that she is being taken away from her family but she broke the law. I'm from Arizona and i know a lot of families that the parents are here illegally and legally. The ones that busted there butts to become citizens and learn English do not agree with the ones that have been here for 20 years and cry about being deported. most of them did not think this day would come.
23
Mr.Trump picked on a woman with two American children. A soft target. She was complying with immigration and was doing her annual requirement as an alien in the U.S. re-registering. That ICE grabbed her and whisked her out of the country in less than a day, shows malice and for thought. One she was out, Rayos lost any chance of appeal or even a hearing. Sexual predators of children have higher ethics and morals than the Administration and ICE exhibited in this case.
11
Here we are and who is defending this decent lady? Not Silicon valley not anyone.
4
The point is: undocumented immigrants form a pool of workers who can hardly demand better wages and improved workplaces. Thus employers can afford to pay a pittance and force people to work more hours under bad conditions (at least for a certain kind of jobs). As there are always some illegals needing a job, also people working legally will have to accept these conditions.
Thus you can choose: lower pay and worse working conditions for everybody but cheaper services and/or higher profits for employers or more expensive services and lesser profit but better pay and working conditions also for meaner jobs as illegal competitors on the labor-market become less.
Thus you can choose: lower pay and worse working conditions for everybody but cheaper services and/or higher profits for employers or more expensive services and lesser profit but better pay and working conditions also for meaner jobs as illegal competitors on the labor-market become less.
12
You might be right in saying that Ms. Rayos should not have been deported because of her family withtwo American children here. But the Editorial Board brings forward a ridiculous argument: "Ms Rayos checked in regularily with immigrations officials but they had better things to do than to deport ther". What nonsense, they would have better things to do than regularily talk with a person who should not be in the country in the first place. And, as we could see, deporting her took almost no time, certainly less than to keep having appointments with her.
19
Good! She was ordered deported in 2013 and its taken 4 years to execute. She is a criminal who is here illegally. There must be consequences or our laws are meaningless.
22
I find the contrasting article about the California farmers who are starting to panic if they lose their 'illegals' insightful when reading this one. We will all suffer when that inexpensive help and fresh food becomes unavailable or only attainable by the very wealthy. Thanks trumpy.
13
What is bothering me the most about what is happening in the country lately is the abject cruelty of these orders and how the individuals responsible for carrying them out choose to do so in heartless ways. Why couldn't ICE wait an hour or so, and ask her kids to get her some clothes, a toothbrush, a photo of her loved ones? Who handcuffs 5 year olds and seniors at airports? How have so many of us become so cruel in so short a time? We can agree to disagree about the legality and morality of these undocumented people's actions, but there is no excuse for the cruelty on display here and elsewhere in the country. None. We have been tasked over thousands of years to love one another. We are better than this.
16
If we allowed EVERYONE who wanted a better life in here without inspection, how many people do you think would come?
Exactly what did she contribute outside of 2 anchors that cost $12,600 a year (US average) and $163,800 for KP-12 X 2 = $327,600. Do you think she even made that much in the whole time she was working here? Did she go to a hospital? In my county to have a baby pre-post natal cost $28,000.
Exactly what did she contribute outside of 2 anchors that cost $12,600 a year (US average) and $163,800 for KP-12 X 2 = $327,600. Do you think she even made that much in the whole time she was working here? Did she go to a hospital? In my county to have a baby pre-post natal cost $28,000.
25
It certainly does not seem fair. On the other hand, if she were living in San Francisco she could deal drugs, steal cars, commit felony assault, etc. all under the loving gaze of city authorities...
13
I agree with sentiments in comments below.
For life of me, I do not understand why the Congress cannot make breaking an imm8gration law a felone, if this will make a deportation easy.
Breaking and entering into a home whether occupied or not is probably a felony without even having stolen anything.
Why is it different about entering a sovereign country.
For life of me, I do not understand why the Congress cannot make breaking an imm8gration law a felone, if this will make a deportation easy.
Breaking and entering into a home whether occupied or not is probably a felony without even having stolen anything.
Why is it different about entering a sovereign country.
14
She's 35 now, has been here 21 years, so she was 4 years old when she got here in - 1996? Smack in the middle of the flow of illegal immigrants into the US at that time. The tide of illegal immigration from Mexico dropped sharply when the Great Recession began. This woman was well known to local law enforcement, they knew where she was, they could have deported her at any time - even under GWBush, gung ho deporters. She's not dangerous, she's just a very easy "See-e, I told you!" case for Trump. He needed a show, we got one. The true "bad guys" are much harder to find.
11
If the only law she broke was one that was necessary to allow her to work, we need to change that law.
6
Why is identity fraud acceptable to some people? This case, while clearly saddening, is still a felony. and the penalty she feared might be levied some day was finally delivered. Who knows where the fake SS# came from or who it may have impacted. When is that acceptable?
25
My understanding is that 26% of Hispanic voters went for Trump in last election
4
She knew when she illegally entered the country that she could someday be deported. She is an insult to every immigrant who ran the gauntlet and paid the high expense of coming here legally.
Make using a fraudulent government record like an SSN a felony and make E-Verify a requirement with the failure of doing so absolutely ruinous to business. Then watch the labor market tighten and wages rise. When U6 drops enough, start increasing guest worker visas.
Can't get anyone to pick veggies or clean hotels? Well then employers will have to pay more won't they? Then you will have to pay a few cents more for strawberries. Welcome to the legal labor market. It isn't that "Americans" won't do it, they just won't do it for slave wages. It is time employers pay market rates for labor.
We would all like cheap stuff, but too many employers think it is okay to violate the law to get cheap labor.
Make using a fraudulent government record like an SSN a felony and make E-Verify a requirement with the failure of doing so absolutely ruinous to business. Then watch the labor market tighten and wages rise. When U6 drops enough, start increasing guest worker visas.
Can't get anyone to pick veggies or clean hotels? Well then employers will have to pay more won't they? Then you will have to pay a few cents more for strawberries. Welcome to the legal labor market. It isn't that "Americans" won't do it, they just won't do it for slave wages. It is time employers pay market rates for labor.
We would all like cheap stuff, but too many employers think it is okay to violate the law to get cheap labor.
25
She never shoulda done that. All people in a remotely similar situation should realize that it's time to hide, go underground, take sanctuary in safe places and, oh yeah, keep doing all the jobs we don't like to do: cook our food, raise our children, walk our pets, harvest our produce, manicure our lawns, polish our shoes, park our cars (you know, that's too hard for us to do) and clean the homes of cabinet members calling for your deportation. Run, hide and resist. Do not go to court if you have a court date; do not report to ANYONE in government (not a social worker or a post office employee) and wait for this freak of a man to be thrown out of power.
12
This is great news! Now it's time to track down the illegal father and deport him as well. Every illegal immigrants in this country has already committed the crime of illegal entry and on that basis alone should be deported without delay. These are not the kind of people who should be admitted to the U.S.
17
So much of the commentariat predictably wants to excuse this lady's actions as a necessary evil, blaming a nameless, faceless system, the easiest form of protest. If an American citizen defrauded the SSA or committed identity theft, s/he would still be in prison, no four-year reprieve.
Most objectionable behavior is motivated by desperation. But we don't excuse it. Have we reached a point where the self-appointed left will make an excuse for anything? If this lady were your ex-boyfriend, you wouldn't put up with this pattern of transgression.
When do you stop letting others make a fool of your compassion? It isn't helpful, and to become complicit in the abuse isn't even healthy.
Most objectionable behavior is motivated by desperation. But we don't excuse it. Have we reached a point where the self-appointed left will make an excuse for anything? If this lady were your ex-boyfriend, you wouldn't put up with this pattern of transgression.
When do you stop letting others make a fool of your compassion? It isn't helpful, and to become complicit in the abuse isn't even healthy.
20
I feel for the whole family, I really do. Just as I do for my family, when we had to jump through hoops to prove that my two year old was not really working in aa Southern California hardware shop. Having a social security number stolen is rightfully a felony- tax problems from the state can go on for years, even if you have lived in another state for 15 years, because someone is using your social security number. This is not a victimless crime. And the perp is not innocent. But justice needs to be delivered with compassion and respect.
22
You can get rid of everyone not born in America and the poor, lazy, uneducated white trash still won't be able to find jobs. They have no skills and they think they're too good to scrub toilets and mow lawns.
20
This is a sad story and more will come. The story can only be blamed on those who took advantage and enabled the behavior. This is why the USA should have been taking border security seriously. We have measures for legal immigration and foreign nationals should respect these measures.
10
Sheer vindictiveness and cruelty. just the sort of petty and arbitrary punishment that minor bureaucrats with newly enhanced authority like to impose. Now there are two motherless children subject to the stress and strain imposed by this decision and who will probably now feel the tender mercies of social services.
6
As I have always believed there are no borders and no countries. We have reached a point where resources are limited and life a bitter struggle. Someone's ancestors forced themselves upon this land. Then wasn't the question of illegality but survival. They killed and pillaged the locals.
History will repeat. Humans will seek better life no matter what laws they may have to break. An American Assad who will one day uproot you will make you realize your limited world view. So live and let live, welcome all.
History will repeat. Humans will seek better life no matter what laws they may have to break. An American Assad who will one day uproot you will make you realize your limited world view. So live and let live, welcome all.
4
Let her stay.
Let her stay.
Let her stay.
Let her stay.
Let her stay.
6
Busting up a family like this sure feels like human trafficking.
1
Ms. Rayos broke the law, yes, but she was a productive member of society. This anti immigrant hard-line some people draw is so narrowly focused, it misses the bigger role of immigration - both legal and not - in our country.
Most (obviously not all) of us born here, even those of us born into poverty, have been fed hope for our chance at a bright future because we think won the lottery of birth countries. We often feel entitled because of that. Some don't have that luck and they fight tooth and nail to get here and carve out a decent life among us. There's nothing strange about that, and we could have easily been in their place if the stars hadn't been aligned for us, so practicing some empathy seems the least we can do.
For those unconvinced, or those who see no benefit in empathy, maybe you care about food costs. Look into Alabama's 2011 immigration law (HB 56) and how it played out before it was modified. Farmers could not get natives to stick out the tough manual labor positions formerly performed by immigrants. We entitled folk don't always have the grit and determination to show how much we love our country and how much we're willing to sacrifice in our appreciation to be here. See the 2016 election turnout percent as a ready example of our apathy.
Most (obviously not all) of us born here, even those of us born into poverty, have been fed hope for our chance at a bright future because we think won the lottery of birth countries. We often feel entitled because of that. Some don't have that luck and they fight tooth and nail to get here and carve out a decent life among us. There's nothing strange about that, and we could have easily been in their place if the stars hadn't been aligned for us, so practicing some empathy seems the least we can do.
For those unconvinced, or those who see no benefit in empathy, maybe you care about food costs. Look into Alabama's 2011 immigration law (HB 56) and how it played out before it was modified. Farmers could not get natives to stick out the tough manual labor positions formerly performed by immigrants. We entitled folk don't always have the grit and determination to show how much we love our country and how much we're willing to sacrifice in our appreciation to be here. See the 2016 election turnout percent as a ready example of our apathy.
9
The title here is misleading. She was warned before she showed up. She was reporting because her case was being reviewed. She was here illegally and committed a felony while here. While her crimes weren't against a person, you just can't ignore them, both of them. Our prisons are filled with punished citizens; why should non-citizens get preferential treatment?
The innocent ones here are her children.
The innocent ones here are her children.
12
Her employer is the one who should be prosecuted for hiring a worker who does not have employment authorization. How about penalty and jail time?
Unless employers are held responsible, this will just be a revolving door and it will further serve the employers - unlimited supply of desperate workers.
Unless employers are held responsible, this will just be a revolving door and it will further serve the employers - unlimited supply of desperate workers.
16
good luck catching anybody else, no one will visit these officers anymore.
7
I can't remember the number of times during the election campaign that Trump supporters said, "He doesn't want to get rid of the good, hard-working and peaceful people."
I took Trump literally, and everyone told me not to. Even recently Conway told us not to listen to his words but to look into his heart.
Well, I have looked into Trump's heart. There is nothing there. There is only the surface Trump we all know so well. Petty, ignorant, and vindictive. He will deport all of the undocumented immigrants just to prove he's better at deporting people than Obama was.
I took Trump literally, and everyone told me not to. Even recently Conway told us not to listen to his words but to look into his heart.
Well, I have looked into Trump's heart. There is nothing there. There is only the surface Trump we all know so well. Petty, ignorant, and vindictive. He will deport all of the undocumented immigrants just to prove he's better at deporting people than Obama was.
21
Ben, you seem to have the wrong article. This is one where a felon and illegal was deported. You want the one where great injustice was done. Try down the hall.
10
This is just the beginning. Perhaps, Arizona needs to ignore the law and become a "sanctuary" state as Brown is attempting to do with California.
2
Not as long as Arpajo is there.
2
No we do not! California is a wreck.
How would you like your identity stolen?
How would you like your identity stolen?
8
i am a compassionate person which should really not even have a place in this conversation. WE have to decide if we will be a country of laws or NOT - I feel we need to at least enforce the laws that are on our books now. That is called Justice. This person was using a fake SS #, and while i understand both sides feelings, we need to enforce our laws. Period. Other countries would not tolerate this porous situation and neither can we.
22
Any discussion of this needs to have a workable E verify system in place.
If we do not punish the company hiring, we will not fix the stream, even with the wall.
Now, the wall will slow down the drug issue, as important as the illegal immigration. Many illegals are carrying drugs over to pay their freight.
If we do not punish the company hiring, we will not fix the stream, even with the wall.
Now, the wall will slow down the drug issue, as important as the illegal immigration. Many illegals are carrying drugs over to pay their freight.
9
As soon as I saw " caught using a fake social security card", I was upset. Anyone caught using a fake SS card is a criminal, and should be punished. Since she is not a citizen, she can serve her sentence in her homeland. It's hard for me to have sympathy for anyone who willfully and intentionally breaks the law. When an illegal undocumented alien does it, It's like it is even that much more a violation and in complete disregard for the respect for our laws, and or for us as citizens, as a whole.
20
I am greatly saddened by this horrible event in my state. As a nation, we have lost our way. Two children are left without a mother. We have destroyed a family. We need to hold accountable each and every member of Congress who supports this tragedy. Let us remember this in two years, when we vote again. I, for one, will not forget.
14
Trump and his administration don't follow the ethics or laws of our country so until they do and until an immigration policy is formally made we need to only focus on those people that break the laws. Trump has broken trust with many laws but has lawyers and payoffs to get him set free. This is just wrong and should have never happened. What can we do to help this woman?
6
I feel sad for her children, they have lost their mother. If we had reformed our immigration policy regarding Mexico years ago, these kinds of tragic outcomes could have been prevented.
33
Identity theft is not a victimless serious crime. An illegal alien stole my friend's social security number and the havoc was endless. Do we have laws in this country or not? Why are immigrants allowed to pick and choose what laws they want to follow?
114
Reminds me of the first time I read similar stories and watched movies from photographers at the front during World War II!
I'm elderly now and am sick of seeing these greedy people beginning their wars for profit at the expense of everyone else.
Does anyone else feel the way I do?
I'm elderly now and am sick of seeing these greedy people beginning their wars for profit at the expense of everyone else.
Does anyone else feel the way I do?
24
So what. She came here illegally, she worked here illegally, and on top of all of that, she broke the law by using a phony Social Security card. What are we supposed to do, pat her on the back and tell her what a good little girl she's been?
113
But she's nice, that should excuse her.
5
"“I supported this bill. I believe in the idea of amnesty for those who have put down roots and who have lived here even though sometime back they may have entered illegally.” – Oct. 21, 1984 debate, on an immigration bill being considered in Congress."
- President Ronald Reagan
- President Ronald Reagan
61
I am pleased that this illegal immigrant was deported.
I believe in The rule of law. pun to.
I believe in The rule of law. pun to.
64
Trump issued an executive order that stipulated that "undocumented immigrants convicted of any criminal offense have become a priority for deportation."
I guess that would include ALL undocumented immigrants living in the United State without a green card as technically they are illegal.
I guess that would include ALL undocumented immigrants living in the United State without a green card as technically they are illegal.
49
She was a criminal, and whey don't you people realize that. She is here illegally.Ship her back to her home country and let her make a living there. I have no remorse for an illegal. We should be prepossessing their homes and car to pay for all the years breaking the LAW. These people say what a shame we have to send them home. THEY ARE BLIND! The laws are on on the books for a reason. Maybe the need to go to Mexico and do the same thing there as they did here and see how long they stay.
61
Here is the facts. She has lived here for 21 years illegally. 9 Years ago she was arrested for identity theft and charged with a felony she was suppose to self deport but Obama cut her a break. Her husband is also an illegal.
1. She had 21 years to get legal.
2. She is a felon
3. Her husband is also Illegal but he is choosing to stay in the us illegally and leave his wife in Mexico.
1. She had 21 years to get legal.
2. She is a felon
3. Her husband is also Illegal but he is choosing to stay in the us illegally and leave his wife in Mexico.
109
DRUMPF Grandfather of Donald, came to the country as an impoverished immigrant and did well. Clearly Donald does not wish to hold open the same opportunities to others. Not one to miss a chance to miss a chance, Trump has shown that he is merciless with the fastest growing demographic in the US, Hispanics. Trump has not shown that he's tough, fair and effective by authorizing the deportation of those who have made mistakes, but have also made significant contributions to the US. The 2018 elections are not far away. And Trump and the GOP will have to reckon with widespread dissatisfaction all across the political spectrum.
28
I don't really think you can even say she made a "mistake," given that she had absolutely no other choice at the time and did what virtually any other sane human being in her place would have done. Her other option was to lie down and die.
This is what America wants as decided by the election of President Trump, republican majorities in Congress, State Houses and Legislatures across the country. We have laws defining immigration. The other side wants to violate our immigration laws and call us hateful names simultaneously. If these families want to be together, they can meet in the country of nationality. I have a son who is a permanent resident of another country. He has restrictions on work and limitations on benefits. If he violates the rules he will be discharged from the country. He and his family would not like that, but those are the rules and he must live within them. The woman in question broke our laws and should be deported.
59
Not decided by a majority of votes. By states, with some very close
5
Yay...Arizona. So proud of my state. (Sarcasm). Arpaio brought shame--and now we have it in the White House. These kids need their mother!
34
Yes they do
They can be with their mother in Mexico. Since both parents are Mexican citizens, citizenship will automatically transfer.
11
Sad. I hope the USA becomes as great as Mr Trump trumpets. If so, it will throw him and his formative elite out of government. Power is always in a struggle with reality, Donald will be a loser too.
11
The hope I had when I voted for Obama and the Democrats gained control of Congress was that they would implement new laws to give people like Ms. Rayo's a path to citizenship. This obviously did not happen; their priorities were elsewhere. Sad. Now, we have a form of logic which essentially says, "Let everyone in and they can stay until they hurt someone, then and only then, they can be deported". That's a logic that is simply not acceptable to me. Further, we have 11 million undocumented illegal immigrants, who may have 22 million children at some point, who are legal citizens, which form a voting block for anyone in political power who allows the 11 million illegal immigrants to stay. This is almost analogous to a powerful lobbying group for legalizing illegal immigration. We would not be in this complicated situation if the Federal and State governments would have enforced or changed the laws in the first place. Today's situation is not just a problem caused solely by Trump, it was also caused by the many President's and Congresses that came before him. Someone has to draw the line somewhere, and that is exactly what Trump is attempting to do. Obama, Bush, and Clinton had their opportunities to do something, and they did not.
28
A more humane approach would have been for her to have a path to a green card and later to citizenship.
35
So are you claiming those paths do not exist? They have been in place more than 200 years.
6
She's a convinced felon. No amnesty bill ever proposed giving a path to citizenship to illegals convicted of felonies.
6
She is clearly a dangerous criminal who wants to damage this great country. Believe me. She voted illegally at least a million times (people are saying), and she played a central role in the Bowling Green Massacre. I heard she doesn't even shop at Nordstrom. How wonderful we now have a so-called president and attorney general who will protect us from this kind of evil, dangerous woman.
68
But using SS# of another citizen is a Felony and can cause that person years of harm and large financial consequences ..!! What if it happen to you..!!
74
As one who lived in a neighbourhood that has seen 6 murders over 18 months of teens as a result of ties to MS13 and the 18th Street Gang, I would prefer to see the dangerous immigrants sent home and continued focus on dismantling gangs and stopping unaccompanied minors coming in (some of the teens came without parents) and leave people alone who work, raise their kids, pay taxes, and contribute to the overall good,
37
she had a deportation order from 2013. there's no problem here other than the fact she's still here 4 years after the order came down.
62
"If anyone in these comments can explain to me how this woman's presence, working, paying taxes, and living in America, is actively hurting people, please let me know." --- Maybe the family whose teenage child can't get a job at the water park because someone who is not authorized to work in the U.S. is taking that job? Maybe the person whose identity she stole had their credit affected? Both are real possibilities. As for taxes, someone making $10 an hour at a water park is NOT paying very many taxes--probably not even CLOSE to the cost of educating her two children at taxpayer expense.
68
Doubt she was making $10 an hour. But good point. I always like to ask which job an illegal alien has that you want so badly? Water park? Cleaning office buildings and toilets? Picking fruit? Just adding...
23
Undocumented immigrants do not generally steal identities. They make up a number that looks like a social security number. Social security payments are deducted from their pay checks and deposited to that social security account. They are actually making a gift to the owner of that account not "stealing identity". They don't know the persons name and never put themselves forth as the other person.
1
Many people wait years to enter this country legally. They follow the rules. They do not illegally use the SS# of others.
To compare the subject of this article to a immigrant who came here legally is misguided and false.
To compare the subject of this article to a immigrant who came here legally is misguided and false.
6
My mother died in 1992. In 2002, I started being harassed by debt collectors, my mother's social security number and other personal information was being used by an illegal alien in California. Since I lived in California, the debt collectors started going after me too. It took figuring out how to get a death certificate for my mother to get them to stop calling me at work. I have no sympathy for illegal aliens stealing American's identities. The worst thing is that the US SSA knows these people are stealing American's identities, their ssa payments go into separate file, and they do nothing. If Trump wants to start enforcing US immigration laws, they need to start with raiding the SSA's files.
99
Agree with many of the commenters. She entered the country ILLEGALLY, she ILLEGALLY faked a Social Security number which is a major offense. These are two reasons alone she should have been deported a long time ago. Trying to raise some emotional outcry for this is simply terrible and irresponsible. Anyone that tries to cross the border into Mexico, commit crimes is going to get sent back ASAP or worse, end up in a cartel-controlled government jail and get tortured.
To think that other countries don't follow the exact same practices is absurd. It's time we simply enforce the laws in this country - immigration and border security being the most fundamental and simple laws to enforce. Do you have clearance to be here? No, please go back.
The lawmakers and our Former President have been complicit in this for years. There is only one reason that Occam's Razor can explain and that is they WANT this illegal immigration because their voting base has been decimated by the fact that most of their base either aborts their children OR fails to have children and delays it for other pursuits. This is the big demographic play that the Democrats have been pushing for years because they wouldn't exist otherwise. ENFORCE THE LAW OR WE WILL VOTE YOU OUT OF OFFICE.
To think that other countries don't follow the exact same practices is absurd. It's time we simply enforce the laws in this country - immigration and border security being the most fundamental and simple laws to enforce. Do you have clearance to be here? No, please go back.
The lawmakers and our Former President have been complicit in this for years. There is only one reason that Occam's Razor can explain and that is they WANT this illegal immigration because their voting base has been decimated by the fact that most of their base either aborts their children OR fails to have children and delays it for other pursuits. This is the big demographic play that the Democrats have been pushing for years because they wouldn't exist otherwise. ENFORCE THE LAW OR WE WILL VOTE YOU OUT OF OFFICE.
69
Twenty-nine percent of Hispanics voted for Trump, 29%! This country is genuinely divided about matters it will not compromise about because to do so, to true believers, would be to spill out their identity. To me, immigrants. legal or not, are Christ's stranger knocking at the door. The whole point of the parable is that when "the knock" occurs, so does possible danger. What do you do? The point of the parable is not vetting. The parable presents a moral dilemma. "The knock" never comes on schedule; it always seems to come when you're with your new bride or down on your luck. Do you help or do you vet? As cowardly as I am, my job is to be human, not safe at all cost.
It must be a real burden to believe in God and love your fellow man so much that you feel compelled to burn his seat at the table in the name of the Lord and in defense of Man's law.
It must be a real burden to believe in God and love your fellow man so much that you feel compelled to burn his seat at the table in the name of the Lord and in defense of Man's law.
19
"To me, immigrants. legal or not, are Christ's stranger knocking at the door."
Then post your address in suitable places with a note in Spanish that you will give shelter to Christ's strangers, however many they be. And don't lock your door. Open door policy, right? Right?
Then post your address in suitable places with a note in Spanish that you will give shelter to Christ's strangers, however many they be. And don't lock your door. Open door policy, right? Right?
7
Let me get this straight: she came here as a minor at the age of 14, she's lived here for 21 years, and this is not her home? Where is her home, then?
36
This person was here for over 21 years and caused no problems. Never committed a crime. No violence. Paid taxes, got married and had children. Now the US is breaking up families. Shame on Trump.
30
She is a two time convicted felon.
62
Good. America doesn't need her around. She broke the law.
29
You've never broken the law, then? No underage drinking or smoking? No driving or boating under the influence? No shoplifting as a minor? Fibbed on your tax return? I think you would find most Americans have broken at least one law in their lives, maybe we should deport everyone.
12
OMG, she used a fake social security card. She didn't murder anyone, beat anyone, sell drugs. It means she paid taxes.. at least thru that business and she would never be able to use social security
10
This is no less than institutionalized cruelty. Cases like this are particularly horrifying, but the INS has been pulling stupid stunts like this for years. I'm an immigrant, now a citizen, and I have witnessed US immigration and embassy officials humiliate people in public before refusing them entry. Most Americans never see this stuff going on. If they did, it wouldn't be tolerated.
21
Not only the INS humiliates, that is the intent of many of the writes responding to to this article. I speak as a refugee, now a successful and law abiding citizen.
Here's wishing that we had more of a "bleeding-heart" ethos in this country as opposed to this cold display of readers with no heart at all, most of whom are fortunate enough not to know what they themselves would do in a desperate situation. Lack of empathy and hate does not make America "great".
28
For all the non US readers, does this article explain what is meant by "making America safe again"?
10
The Obama Administration ignored the deportation order. Why?
Are there, using this precedent, other judge's orders that the Trump Administration may ignore?
Are there, using this precedent, other judge's orders that the Trump Administration may ignore?
19
Maybe, if we start enforcing our immigration laws as well as putting an end to H1B Visa abuse, we can start seeing real wage growth for American citizens.
51
Right, because most Americans really want to work on a farm, clean other people's homes and offices, tend to other people's gardens, take care of other people's children, etc. Maybe if Americans who complain of lost coal/manufacturing jobs, which by the way are never coming back, and instead learn to code, for example, we wouldn't have the H1B Visa issue. In this country hard work is becoming a talking point among those who are complaining about government overreach while sitting back expecting government to bring back non-existent jobs.
5
More likely we will a decline in the population and the economy, work going undone, store closed for lack of customers, tax revenues going down and economic shrinking.
2
I do not recognize my country. I am ashamed of us. Who was harmed by this woman?
We are presenting, now, the face of Ugly America for all the world to see.
Hateful, racist, bigoted, paranoid, illiterate, hateful, ugly America, where we don't recognize the true story of the Holocaust but where Jews are daily threatened; where our so-called leader is flat terrified of Muslims; where he takes time out of his day to rail against retail stores on behalf of his daughter who is apparently entitled to our money - where his spinners go on international TV and lie their heads of and then declare "Alternative facts!".
We now live in a nation where scientific data is threatened and extirpated from the people's - the PEOPLE'S - government agencies; where data about animal welfare is disappeared.
My god. Who is against the welfare of puppies?
What has happened, America? And who are you, that you support this garbage? Stand up. Let us see your faces.
We are presenting, now, the face of Ugly America for all the world to see.
Hateful, racist, bigoted, paranoid, illiterate, hateful, ugly America, where we don't recognize the true story of the Holocaust but where Jews are daily threatened; where our so-called leader is flat terrified of Muslims; where he takes time out of his day to rail against retail stores on behalf of his daughter who is apparently entitled to our money - where his spinners go on international TV and lie their heads of and then declare "Alternative facts!".
We now live in a nation where scientific data is threatened and extirpated from the people's - the PEOPLE'S - government agencies; where data about animal welfare is disappeared.
My god. Who is against the welfare of puppies?
What has happened, America? And who are you, that you support this garbage? Stand up. Let us see your faces.
30
The United States in a country of Laws.
49
Puppies will be deported next! We can't have these little criminals here who don't work and pay no taxes. Who are sycophants always looking for someone to feed them. Who are burdens on society!
Trump said he was going after the "bad hombres", the drug dealers, the rapists, the murderers. So what does he do? Deport a Mexican woman who was brought here at the age of 14. Separate her from her children. Who has a felony conviction because she used fake documents in order to work. Wow-we got a bad one here!! I'm not sure why so many Americans want to make this an official Christian country when they seem to have very few Christian values-compassion chief among them.
Trump said he was going after the "bad hombres", the drug dealers, the rapists, the murderers. So what does he do? Deport a Mexican woman who was brought here at the age of 14. Separate her from her children. Who has a felony conviction because she used fake documents in order to work. Wow-we got a bad one here!! I'm not sure why so many Americans want to make this an official Christian country when they seem to have very few Christian values-compassion chief among them.
3
I find it very interesting the news media and the protestors are not aware Ms. Ramos is guilty of identify theft. This crime is the basis for her deportation. I sympathize with her many victims that have lost their money and credit worthiness the Ms. Ramos' criminal acts.
The victims were all American citizens and their families were financial destroyed by Ms. Ramos criminal act. She would have been allowed to stay for a while longer had she not committed felonies.
The victims were all American citizens and their families were financial destroyed by Ms. Ramos criminal act. She would have been allowed to stay for a while longer had she not committed felonies.
44
Immigrants make up random numbers to use as Sicial Security number. Money is then deducted from their wages and payed into that made up account. So if that matched your account the money added by the poor low paid immigrant is actually a gift to you.
And oh, President Trump's wife gets a pass on the fact that she was here illegally too, then she married him.
22
Melania had special talent to pose nude. It's very difficult to do it. You have to be able to take your clothes off and pose in a provocative or sexually suggestive way. The problem
with the woman deported is she didn't know how to do this or didn't know the right people who could have recognized her talent.
with the woman deported is she didn't know how to do this or didn't know the right people who could have recognized her talent.
Some criminals sit on death row for 20 or 30 years before they are finally executed. How is this different?
6
Who's the dummy who never told her to become a legal citizen? Surely she had to know that.
17
I am still unable to understand why people from Nigeria or Bangladesh or Greece who want to immigrate to the US have fewer rights than people from Mexico.
If someone from Bangladesh comes to the US and overstays her visa, why does she have fewer rights than Ms. de Rayos?
But to alter something said by Stalin. 11 million illegal immigrants are a serious problem. ONE immigrant being deported is a tragedy. Ms de Rayos is that ONE immigrant and gets a full page in the New York Times. Someone equally deserving will not even get a mention.
We want everyone on the planet to have the same life as we do, because all men and women are created equal.
At the same time, we know very well we cannot afford it. We could not even take in the entire population of Bangladesh.
So how do we resolve this conflict?
Anyone who gets into the limelight has the same rights as a US citizen.
Someone with equal needs is just "someone with needs" and we cannot take care of that nameless someone.
The three principles, a) take care of everyone you know b) we are all equal and c) we cannot take care of everyone on the planet
are in conflict.
If someone from Bangladesh comes to the US and overstays her visa, why does she have fewer rights than Ms. de Rayos?
But to alter something said by Stalin. 11 million illegal immigrants are a serious problem. ONE immigrant being deported is a tragedy. Ms de Rayos is that ONE immigrant and gets a full page in the New York Times. Someone equally deserving will not even get a mention.
We want everyone on the planet to have the same life as we do, because all men and women are created equal.
At the same time, we know very well we cannot afford it. We could not even take in the entire population of Bangladesh.
So how do we resolve this conflict?
Anyone who gets into the limelight has the same rights as a US citizen.
Someone with equal needs is just "someone with needs" and we cannot take care of that nameless someone.
The three principles, a) take care of everyone you know b) we are all equal and c) we cannot take care of everyone on the planet
are in conflict.
30
The president and everyone eager to deport the 11 million people who are here either with fraudulent or no documents don’t understand the logistical problems.
Let’s put aside moral arguments for the moment—and look at what will happen to a nation that depends on the labor of millions of people to pick fruit/vegetables, cut meat, construct infrastructure, clean homes, babysit, and much more. Our nation would suffer serious economic repercussions (with some regions collapsing like what the South experienced after the Civil War) if people were rapidly deported. It's estimated that as many as 70% of agricultural workers have fraudulent documents.
The only rational thing is a process that corrects things over time so that new generations don’t become long-time U.S. workers without legal documents. A lot of that process exists. Employers have e-verify, work is underway to improve the turn-around time for seasonal worker visas, employers can recommend good workers to fast track for legalization, and so on.
Trump is really a man in search of a problem. There is no urgent reason to break families apart and kick hard-working people out of the nation. Getting rid of the men and women who pick our vegetables in California is not going to employ laid-off coal miners in West Virginia or laid-off autoworkers in Detroit. With sensible tweaks, our current immigration system can be improved over time so that, in a couple of generations, fewer and fewer people are undocumented.
Let’s put aside moral arguments for the moment—and look at what will happen to a nation that depends on the labor of millions of people to pick fruit/vegetables, cut meat, construct infrastructure, clean homes, babysit, and much more. Our nation would suffer serious economic repercussions (with some regions collapsing like what the South experienced after the Civil War) if people were rapidly deported. It's estimated that as many as 70% of agricultural workers have fraudulent documents.
The only rational thing is a process that corrects things over time so that new generations don’t become long-time U.S. workers without legal documents. A lot of that process exists. Employers have e-verify, work is underway to improve the turn-around time for seasonal worker visas, employers can recommend good workers to fast track for legalization, and so on.
Trump is really a man in search of a problem. There is no urgent reason to break families apart and kick hard-working people out of the nation. Getting rid of the men and women who pick our vegetables in California is not going to employ laid-off coal miners in West Virginia or laid-off autoworkers in Detroit. With sensible tweaks, our current immigration system can be improved over time so that, in a couple of generations, fewer and fewer people are undocumented.
35
You can't reason with a Bully.
You waste your time and their intellectual capabilities.
You waste your time and their intellectual capabilities.
9
Sorry, this sounds like a profound explanation of why we should let illegal crimes go unpunished. Wrong. If someone crossed the border illegaly due to the incompetence of our lawmakers, we should treat each one case-by-case.. But if you continued to commit a crime (In the article, this lady faked a SSN and stole someone's identity - a felony), you need to be on the first bus/train/plane out of the country. Sorry - get out and follow the laws of our country and laws that every other country on Earth with a functioning government enforce extremely strictly.
32
I feel very sad for the pain this causing her and her family. She came here as a child. I would THINK that would have been a help to her in obtaining documentation has she consulted an immigration lawyer years ago. This deportation order has been on the books since 2013. It seems she made no plans for the potential of this rainy day. I don't know the specifics of her use of a fake SSN. I don't know if she concocted number or used a stolen card. I had my SSN stolen. I found out when I received a notice from my employer saying that my wages were about to be attached for being a dead beat Dad in SOCAL. I'm a woman in NORCAL. It was a hassle to sort if out and fortunately, the person hadn't used my number to do anything else like damage my credit, etc... I support a path to citizenship for those non-violent undocumented people, but I understand the decision to deport this woman. I think it will end up costing US taxpayers MORE in the long run, since her children are US citizens, and that we should be focused on getting the hard core violent, undocumented people out. But, I respect this decision.
14
RE: " her family said Thursday that she had been deported to Mexico, a country she has not seen since she left it 21 years ago."
Too bad it wasn't 30 years. 30 years seems to be the current threshold for Republicans to say "it doesn't matter. it was in past" based on the comments regarding Mr. Sessions past practices raised in his confirmations.
Too bad it wasn't 30 years. 30 years seems to be the current threshold for Republicans to say "it doesn't matter. it was in past" based on the comments regarding Mr. Sessions past practices raised in his confirmations.
20
This is essentially the same treatment an illegal alien would receive in Mexico. Except it wouldn't take 8 years for them to deport you.
51
She must have used what is known as a "work number" with employers.
I suspect that she obtained an ITIN number from the IRS (which knows that she is not a citizen or green card holder), and then filed taxes because it was known she could get a cash refund of "additional child tax credit".
I suspect that she obtained an ITIN number from the IRS (which knows that she is not a citizen or green card holder), and then filed taxes because it was known she could get a cash refund of "additional child tax credit".
13
When is Andrew Pudzer's illegal maid getting deported? And how about Melania Trump? They both should be deported ASAP.
This is the most cruel thing I think I have seen my country do. That it came right after the Executive Order by Trump, plus his Storm Trooper Executive Orders signed today, mean that he and President Bannon and Sessions will be coming for all people of color.
I am crying. I am just sick.
This is the most cruel thing I think I have seen my country do. That it came right after the Executive Order by Trump, plus his Storm Trooper Executive Orders signed today, mean that he and President Bannon and Sessions will be coming for all people of color.
I am crying. I am just sick.
17
Feeling safer now America? Congrats to ICE for tracking now the number one bad duderette and deporting her.
13
Another job opens up for a U.S. citizen. Now employers will start having to pay a first world wage - not a third world wage to the millions of illegal aliens in the U.S. This is the best attack on income inequality in years and working class citizens will finally make some gains.
38
No. Employers won't necessarily pay more. Profit margins still matter. Read the article on farmers in California and their fears for the undocumented workers who pick their crops. Americans are not rushing in to get those jobs.
14
Bingo -- the biggest reason against simply allowing illegal immigrants to come into the country is the one about slavery and trafficking. Allowing Illegal Immigration is equivalent to supporting Slavery. Period. Full Stop. The solution is not Amnesty as that is highly disruptive to citizens and it's clear that this "incompetence" in our government is nothing more than a scam to shore up their voting bases.
14
This sends a good message to undocumented immigrants already in the US: do not try to use a Social Security number for unlawful purposes. And behave on all other matters as to their conduct while in the US.
24
On a human level I am sorry for this woman and her family, but 21 years and there was nothing you could do to legitimize your situation? Felony charge of using a fake SS number and the possibility of identity theft? I'm sure there were no taxes paid either, but plenty of resources used, including the cost of her incarceration, conviction and supervision. We all follow rules that we would like to ignore, but that's called anarchy and it's not a good foundation for a peaceful, orderly society.
43
Immigration cases are rarely handled through our criminal litigation process. While entering the country without going through the proper channels is indeed a crime called "improper entry" (punishable by up to 6 months in prison and $250 in fines per entry), being in the country without proper documentation (i.e. overstaying one's visa), legally referred to as "unlawful presence," is not a crime but rather a civil matter. The term "illegal" is intended to criminalize and dehumanize a whole class of people as a means to more easily justify upending their lives and causing them undue harm. No one is made safer and no economic benefits come from selectively prosecuting a mother of two and then deporting her. It is pure xenophobic vindictiveness which motivates such acts.
12
Erik, Words matter. Are you suggesting they are legal then?
8
I have no sympathy for Ms. Rayos.
I lived in a homeless shelter for a long spell during the great recession. As a single-adult disabled person I was eligible for public housing but in the town where I live there was none. Preference for public housing was given to families. And most these families had illegal Mexican immigrant parents with US born children. So I ( a US citizen) was forced to live in dangerous
unsanitary accommodations (sharing my living space with drug addicts, paroled murders and the simply insane) for a long time waiting for help, thanks to people like Rayos. A better life for Rayos (and people like her,
better than her life would have been in Mexico) means a worse life for me. Maybe in a country with greater support for the abjectly poor this would not be the case but that is the way it is here in the USA.
I lived in a homeless shelter for a long spell during the great recession. As a single-adult disabled person I was eligible for public housing but in the town where I live there was none. Preference for public housing was given to families. And most these families had illegal Mexican immigrant parents with US born children. So I ( a US citizen) was forced to live in dangerous
unsanitary accommodations (sharing my living space with drug addicts, paroled murders and the simply insane) for a long time waiting for help, thanks to people like Rayos. A better life for Rayos (and people like her,
better than her life would have been in Mexico) means a worse life for me. Maybe in a country with greater support for the abjectly poor this would not be the case but that is the way it is here in the USA.
59
When our country has provided for ALL of our children, disabled, elderly and veterans then and only then should we continue importing more poverty from other countries.
I am sorry and ashamed this happened to you. We provide Section 8 housing vouchers for non-citizens, (Yes, we do), the least is that you could have been provided with one.
I am sorry and ashamed this happened to you. We provide Section 8 housing vouchers for non-citizens, (Yes, we do), the least is that you could have been provided with one.
27
If you have an ounce of empathy, it's a horrible time to live in America. This is one of the saddest stories of the year. Our government is off-track.
18
She used someone elses social security number. That is a felony. To get benefits from US tax dollars. If I did it as an actual American citizen, I'd have a felony on my record. Illegal immigrants with felonies need to be deported immediately. How is this even an argument?
50
She paid money from her salary to an unknown person's social security number. The owner of the number received a benefit from her. She didn't receive a benefit from anyone.
1
We have a president that paid $25 million to settle a fraud law suit deporting a woman who apparently has not broken the law in 21 years except for using a fake SSN number on employment documents at a water park (which, for some reason, is a felony)? Word fail.
24
In my opinion, deporting people such as this is a hate crime.
13
Try going to any other country on the planet and see what happens to you.
25
As it happens, I travel internationally quite often, and I am in Asia as I write this. From what I have seen, other countries are much more likely to take a person like this and cut them some slack than we are in the US.
She entered the country illegally and then sponged off our resources for 21 years. Good riddance. Wise up no-law liberals - this is a good beginning!
36
Nothing in the article indicates that Guadalupe "sponged off our resources". BearBoy is apparently just another example of a compassionless conservative making up fake facts.
7
If you want to export the unenvited illegals, then let's take back to 1492 ! O.K. ? Fair enough ?
14
But everyone who was alive in 1492 is now dead. Unless you know something we don't know. X-files?
11
Makes no sense not allowing someone to apply for a visa and then being mad that they don't have a visa.
13
Makes no sense to break the law of a country before you're even a citizen.
22
Now Sessions (The Keebler Elf) will take credit for deporting workers. Will his zealotry extend to White "criminals" from Europe who have over stayed their visas. I doubt they will be not be exposed to a public trial in a van. If chased down and expelled it won't be on the evening news. An estimate from a few months ago put the number of Irish alone was 50,000. That's a lot of airline tickets at taxpayer expense. Cheaper to keep them. Maybe a path to legal residence/citizenship. More white privilege I suspect.
12
What part of illegal do people not understand...if she has been here over 20 years why hasn't she applied for citizenship.
24
She hasn't applied for citizenship because there is no pathway in current law for an undocumented immigrant to obtain citizenship. Apparently Tonyjm doesn't understand immigration law.
14
No one seems very concerned about their own forefathers immigrating to the US without permission.
12
They had permission from their sovereign state/nation...
7
Perhaps you haven't noticed that hundreds of years have passed and the world is, um, a slightly different place. We simply cannot take care of everyone who wants to come here and there should be consequences for those who do not follow the LAW. Even Legal immigrants often sponge off the government. Kinda tired of my tax dollars being spent to take care of anchor babies and illegals working our very, very broken system. Meanwhile, if i commit a felony, will the authorities worry about splitting up my family so I can sit in jail? No.
22
I read another article that noted she committed identity theft. So, if she lived here for decades, why didn't she go through the citizenship process? And if she or anyone else committed a crime, why are consequences such a bad thing?
18
When my son sought to legalize the immigration status of his wife, who was brought here as a child from Trinidad, he found that because her family had entered the country legally with tourist visas and stayed here when the visas expired, she could get a green card and qualify for citizenship.
There is no such path now for people like Ms. Garcia de Rayos who entered the United States illegally. There used to be, I think, but that has changed.
There is no such path now for people like Ms. Garcia de Rayos who entered the United States illegally. There used to be, I think, but that has changed.
6
Meanwhile, as Trump deports hapless migrants, his own family's business connections make every American -- native born and otherwise -- a second-class citizen.
9
It's time to stop whining. It doesn't matter how long you've been hiding from the law. In any other country beside America, 99% illegal undocumented aliens are criminal. You don't sneak in to someone home, and claimed you're here because ours home are better than yours. It's illegal, it's not fair to the resident, and it's a huge financial burden for the country. What would you do to protect your homeland? President Trump didn't create war on immigrants, America is closing its door on the (illegal residents) criminals. Yahooooo!!!!!
27
The Social Security Administration knows where up to 12 million social security numbers are being used fraudulently.
If only Trump makes them share this information with someone that will do something about it.
If only Trump makes them share this information with someone that will do something about it.
19
Citizens have a right to protest, illegals do not and when they break the law they are deported, don't like it, you're free to leave whenever you can.
32
Other nations' problems are not our problems.
Other nations' people love to come here, more than any other country. Millions have no qualms about coming here illegally. Then some demonstrate and protest to change OUR laws when they could have done the same thing in their own countries to bring about the change they want.
Ms Rayos was seeing ICE every year since 2008. Somehow she didn't feel the need to pursue a legal way of being here. Since 2008. ICE could have deported her for years. But didn't. So now everyone is supposed to have waves of sympathy?
No wonder so many illegals feel entitled to stay here. Our own government didn't enforce anything. Now it finally is. Thank God.
Cities that have anointed themselves "Sanctuary Cities" and shield illegals should have every Fed dollar withheld. Don't cry "we have no money" for schools, police, services, etc; when they spend millions on protecting and providing resources to illegals who are not entitled to be here.
Other nations' people love to come here, more than any other country. Millions have no qualms about coming here illegally. Then some demonstrate and protest to change OUR laws when they could have done the same thing in their own countries to bring about the change they want.
Ms Rayos was seeing ICE every year since 2008. Somehow she didn't feel the need to pursue a legal way of being here. Since 2008. ICE could have deported her for years. But didn't. So now everyone is supposed to have waves of sympathy?
No wonder so many illegals feel entitled to stay here. Our own government didn't enforce anything. Now it finally is. Thank God.
Cities that have anointed themselves "Sanctuary Cities" and shield illegals should have every Fed dollar withheld. Don't cry "we have no money" for schools, police, services, etc; when they spend millions on protecting and providing resources to illegals who are not entitled to be here.
36
Sooooo.... in other words she's been breaking the law for 21years and finally got caught. Tell it like it is people.
40
I do NOT understand why this woman feels entitled to be here. She came here illegally and acquired a false social security number. Note that a person does not have to be a citizen to receive benefits government benefits in this country -- they just have to have a social security number and often times not even that.
I am past any kind of feeling when it comes to the illegal community. I have worked nearly 45 years in Texas and I am tired of these people carrying wads of cash to the Apple and Samsung stores and paying cash at relatively expensive restaurants. Did they pay tax on this cash that they are carrying? I am tired of ESL being required virtually everywhere in Texas. I am weary from listening to a language I cannot speak being spoken on all four sides when I go to the market. Fast food workers cannot even effectively take an order and they certainly cannot answer a question. My list is long and I no longer make apologies. I want them to go home.
I have often written of the dirty summer jobs my own children have worked while in college so I do not want to hear they are doing work no one else will do. It is said that 90% of the money earned by Mexican illegal immigrants goes back to Mexico so the statement "they are contributing to the economy is another falsehood."
I am past any kind of feeling when it comes to the illegal community. I have worked nearly 45 years in Texas and I am tired of these people carrying wads of cash to the Apple and Samsung stores and paying cash at relatively expensive restaurants. Did they pay tax on this cash that they are carrying? I am tired of ESL being required virtually everywhere in Texas. I am weary from listening to a language I cannot speak being spoken on all four sides when I go to the market. Fast food workers cannot even effectively take an order and they certainly cannot answer a question. My list is long and I no longer make apologies. I want them to go home.
I have often written of the dirty summer jobs my own children have worked while in college so I do not want to hear they are doing work no one else will do. It is said that 90% of the money earned by Mexican illegal immigrants goes back to Mexico so the statement "they are contributing to the economy is another falsehood."
55
This is the idiocy of the Trump policy on immigration. On the one hand, toss hard-working people out and send them back to Mexico. On the other hand, bully US companies into closing/not opening factories in Mexico - factories which would provide jobs to Mexicans and reduce their need to come here illegally to look for work.
Par for the Trump course.
Par for the Trump course.
11
The lawyer stated we're waging a war on immigrants. Add the word "illegal" and this statement becomes true.
24
I wish these articles would get the laws right. People are already confused enough.
Illegal entry into the US is a criminal misdemeanor but unless caught in the act, it is difficult to prove in court. Repeated offense can lead to felony charges.
Being undocumented or an illegal alien/immigrant is not a crime. It is called illegal presence and it is a civil offense. People can not be imprisoned for civil offenses.
Law enforcement can not hold suspects or offenders of civil crimes indefinitely. This is why many "Sanctuary" cities refuse to detain illegal immigrants based on Immigration & Customs Enforcement (ICE) requests. ICE can be very slow when processing an individual for deportation making local law enforcement responsible for potential false imprisonment lawsuits.
Illegal entry into the US is a criminal misdemeanor but unless caught in the act, it is difficult to prove in court. Repeated offense can lead to felony charges.
Being undocumented or an illegal alien/immigrant is not a crime. It is called illegal presence and it is a civil offense. People can not be imprisoned for civil offenses.
Law enforcement can not hold suspects or offenders of civil crimes indefinitely. This is why many "Sanctuary" cities refuse to detain illegal immigrants based on Immigration & Customs Enforcement (ICE) requests. ICE can be very slow when processing an individual for deportation making local law enforcement responsible for potential false imprisonment lawsuits.
9
>:( @realDonaldTrump
1
She was working and taxes deducted from her pay, that she will never be able to benefit from. Sounds like she was a net benefit to the US.
8
She got it all back, and then some, by filing a tax return and claiming the earned income tax credit. Of course, all this royally fouls up the credit of some American citizen who has done no wrong, but whose SSN she is using.
4
"The reason she was arrested...was because of her felony conviction for using a phony Social Security number, a common subterfuge by unauthorized immigrants looking to find work in the United States."
Articles like these are why Donald Trump got elected in the first place.
Donald Trump is a ignorant, mean and despicable man, but this woman should not be deported...why??? And as far as her children go, she should be immune to deportation because she chose to irresponsibly bear children while she was here illegally, knowing full well that she was subject to deportation?
Articles like these are why Donald Trump got elected in the first place.
Donald Trump is a ignorant, mean and despicable man, but this woman should not be deported...why??? And as far as her children go, she should be immune to deportation because she chose to irresponsibly bear children while she was here illegally, knowing full well that she was subject to deportation?
24
At least you should have some compassion for her children who are U.S. citizens and have done nothing wrong.
1
They can live with their father, who is not likely to be deported soon. Are anchor babies to be anchors for their felon parents?
5
Why not a statute of limitations in these cases?
The USA doesn't have to be heartless to have greater border security.
The USA doesn't have to be heartless to have greater border security.
7
To all those who favor Herr Trump's methods I say this as an alternative... LOCK UP THE BUSINESSMEN WHO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THESE PEOPLE. If you keep on blaming brown people for this so-called "emergency", eventually you will see all of your tea party politicians and your President fired. And your sons, who would rather spend time playing video games on their iPhones than picking lettuce, would go get jobs.
13
What happens to the kids now. The government has done them harm and violated their civil rights. Is there a legal case for the protection of civil rights for the minors?
2
Violated their civil rights...i.e. "I don't approve! You've violated my right to do whatever I please!"
11
John:
The government has done them no harm. They and the father are free to move back to Mexico with their mother.
The government has done them no harm. They and the father are free to move back to Mexico with their mother.
4
Seems sort of cynical to not allow someone to apply for a visa and then blame them for not having a visa.
11
Perhaps she should have thought about applying long ago.
We don't owe her anything.
We don't owe her anything.
16
My former neighbor had family members living in the garage. Martin had a job in IT at a local company.
Several times late at night a truck arrived and dropped people off, at first I was offended but later realized they were good people trying to make a better life here.
Martin used the equity in the house to buy another larger home and then lost it all when the economy collapsed.
Several times late at night a truck arrived and dropped people off, at first I was offended but later realized they were good people trying to make a better life here.
Martin used the equity in the house to buy another larger home and then lost it all when the economy collapsed.
1
First, this is part of a series of opening salvos in a War on Immigration. Republican Senators Tom Cotton and David Purdue just introduced a bill to restrict LEGAL immigration, and our new Attorney General Jeff Sessions has been a long-time opponent of legal immigration as well. After months of having Trump supporters telling us it's only about "enforcing our immigration laws," we finally see what's inside the Trojan Horse...and, surprise! It's xenophobia!
Second, like the War on Drugs, Trump's War on Immigration will probably worsen the problem in the long run. Obama enforced immigration laws. His administration actually deported more people than any previous. What Obama wanted was more humanity and flexibility in the process, and not deport people brought here as minors and who have lived in the country for decades. A more humane and flexible apporach encourages more people to come out of the shadows, exploitation by human traffickers and drug cartels.
What we get know are knee jerk "tough" policies. Ms. Rayos has been working with the authorities and handling things through the courts instead of hiding and running. For her troubles, the Trump administration says "gotcha!" This sends a message out that the undocumented should stay undocumented. Combined with Trump's trade war with Mexico, we can expect the problem of illegal immigration to get worse.
Second, like the War on Drugs, Trump's War on Immigration will probably worsen the problem in the long run. Obama enforced immigration laws. His administration actually deported more people than any previous. What Obama wanted was more humanity and flexibility in the process, and not deport people brought here as minors and who have lived in the country for decades. A more humane and flexible apporach encourages more people to come out of the shadows, exploitation by human traffickers and drug cartels.
What we get know are knee jerk "tough" policies. Ms. Rayos has been working with the authorities and handling things through the courts instead of hiding and running. For her troubles, the Trump administration says "gotcha!" This sends a message out that the undocumented should stay undocumented. Combined with Trump's trade war with Mexico, we can expect the problem of illegal immigration to get worse.
15
Is it your position that the cap on legal immigration can only ever go up?
Why?
We are near a record high percentage of foreign born people living in the US. Perhaps it's time for a brief timeout or slowdown to help with assimilation.
Why?
We are near a record high percentage of foreign born people living in the US. Perhaps it's time for a brief timeout or slowdown to help with assimilation.
18
Take note: The day America died
8
Maybe your America
13
To those who are outraged that there was some kind of identity theft I would remind you that there is a difference between someone who uses identity theft to steal from you and someone who uses it to gain entry to the country and then adds to your social security. Although both are equally illegal they are not equal illegalities. Murder and jaywalking are both illegal but they are not equal. I could imagine these outraged people remaining outraged if someone used their SS number to escape from the Nazi SS because they are unforgiving, mean-spirited people who would be outraged if a judge slapped them with a stiff fine and jail time for speeding, jaywalking or having an overdue library book. Many of them favor the strict enforcement of the law as long as it's some other person who suffers.
18
She commuted a felony!!!! Americans go to jail for this, lose their rights to own firearms, and vote unmongst other things!! So what should happen to her?? Creating an environment where laws only apply to its residents is crazy. You were here illegally, & you still broke the law! Glad they are starting to uphold the laws. Period.
31
Not fun when the IRS calls and wants the taxes on money someone else earned using your number
31
You make no sense my friend. If a US citizen did what she did, for the same reasons as her, they would be in jail for a long time. My parents came to this country legally and so should she. I feel no sympathy for criminals, no matter what sex, religion, or race they are and that is equality. Deport her and maybe people will start to wake up that these protestors do not represent American opinion
18
Guadalupe's crime is NOT identity theft. Like many undocumented immigrants, she seems to have used a forged SSN with her own name. She did this in order to get a job and support her family. She certainly had taxes withheld (like most undocumented workers), and may never have filed to get a refund. It appears she committed no other crimes. The overwhelming majority of people in her situation are doing their best to stay clear of the law. Guadalupe has kept her head down, worked hard and raised good kids. Hard to see how she's anything but a plus for America.
12
She may have claimed a lot of exemptions and had nothing withheld.
16
now multiply what she did by the 11+ million other illegal immigrants and you have a big problem. Why cant you see the big picture?
24
Bet she's paid more income tax than Trump since 2008. Very sad.
31
Want to bet?
The only taxes she paid are sales tax and SS tax (maybe). What they do is the claim however many dependents it takes to reduce the withholding to zero.
The only taxes she paid are sales tax and SS tax (maybe). What they do is the claim however many dependents it takes to reduce the withholding to zero.
14
Please Google Robert Guenterberg. Illegal aliens will no longer be able to get away with using invalid SSN
8
The article does not tell us what that facist Arpaio did to prosecute the employer of Ms. Rayos Golfland Sunsplash? Did the CEO spend any time in jail for the "illegal hiring"?
14
Most likely not because the democrats out there refuse to enforce the law. But there's a new sheriff in town and the laws will be enforced!!TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP !!!!
10
Deporting a mother of American teenagers, while she was praying. Disgusting. Remember Guadalupe.
9
If you feel that bad about it give her your social security number them. She'll be back soon just cause you cared so much.
29
She committed a crime using a social security number not hers. So she pleaded guilty to that felony and was allowed to stay? The newspapers claim she is the breadwinner for her family. This means she committed another felony. She put an invalid SSN on her employer's W4 IRS tax withholding form. Then year after year her employer gave her a W2 with her name and an invalid SSN. Then the IRS allows millions of illegal aliens like her to apply for an ITIN so she can file a tax return probably getting a big tax refund on illegal earnings. Please Google Robert Guenterberg and read how our American Dream was stolen by Cornelio Suarez and Enrique Jimenez. These two illegal Hispanics came illegally here with their parents. These illegals were able to buy FHA homes, rental property, Ford motor vehicles, and obtain credit cards for over 15 years. Since they were able to develop their own credit reports, their debts didn't appear on my husband's credit reports. Debt collectors came after him and he was denied credit and didn't know why. We had to manually file our income taxes and the IRS never told us that it was because they already knew these illegals were fraudulently using my husband's SSN since 1992. A collection agency in 2007 finally told us that two male Hispanics were using my husband's SSN since 1992. We could not get law enforcement in WI where we live or IL (of course) where these illegals lived to help us
27
She was paying in to Social Security with that fraudulent number without the opportunity to ever withdraw.
3
It would be wrong to separate Ms. García de Rayo from her children, husband, and community. Her story is perfectly in line with the principles our great country is founded on. My ancestors and family came to this country like most of yours did hoping to build a better life, hoping to work hard, take risks, and sacrifice to provide a better life for their children. I don't know if any of my relatives falsified any documents or statements along the way like Ms. García de Rayo did. When considering whether it is right or wrong to deport her, our great country should consider everything we know about her and make a fair, just, and inspired decision, as these daily decisions about how we treat people are the central actions that can keep our country great.
If you take the position that any violation - no matter the context and no matter how small - requires deportation then do you need to deport the President's wife for misrepresentations and subsequent untruthful statements denying her original misrepresentation?
I do not want our great country to deport Ms. Trump. She appears to be a law abiding citizen going about her business and making our country better as an immigrant like my ancestors and yours. In the same way, Ms. García de Rayo seems to be a productive, law abiding citizen working a less glamorous job to help put food on the table, a roof over her kids, and shoes on their feet.
A great country would not remove her from her kids, husband, and community.
If you take the position that any violation - no matter the context and no matter how small - requires deportation then do you need to deport the President's wife for misrepresentations and subsequent untruthful statements denying her original misrepresentation?
I do not want our great country to deport Ms. Trump. She appears to be a law abiding citizen going about her business and making our country better as an immigrant like my ancestors and yours. In the same way, Ms. García de Rayo seems to be a productive, law abiding citizen working a less glamorous job to help put food on the table, a roof over her kids, and shoes on their feet.
A great country would not remove her from her kids, husband, and community.
7
I feel for her and her family. I really do. And, she stole someone else's identity to survive.
What's the solution? Provide better access to employment for immigrants. Make the process clear, easy, and workable. Had she had such a process, perhaps she would not have felt the need to break the law. In California, without immigrant workers, many farms and business would go under. We need immigrants in CA to get things done. We need to provide legal papers, a living wage and benefits to immigrants that work.
What's the solution? Provide better access to employment for immigrants. Make the process clear, easy, and workable. Had she had such a process, perhaps she would not have felt the need to break the law. In California, without immigrant workers, many farms and business would go under. We need immigrants in CA to get things done. We need to provide legal papers, a living wage and benefits to immigrants that work.
8
She isn't an immigrant! Please Google Robert Guenterberg
7
Like working in a prison foodline.
The mother should take her kids back with her, no need to separate the family at all.
32
Her kids are Americans and pretty sure they never set foot in Mexico! You want to cut them from their friends and school?! How Christian of you! Try to think about that in church next Sunday! And maybe try to read your favorite book, the Bible, if you can understand its teaching!
9
Yes. The family can all go to Mexico to be with their mother provided Mexico will let the children live there. Remember, the children are U.S. citizens
10
Lolofrim, why would you assume Jim is Christian?
5
I wish they all were like that it would be so much easier on our agents.
3
A federal judge has ruled that a illegal immigrant who uses a fake security cared to obtain work is not guilty of identify theft unless they use the social security number of other purposes, such as applying for a credit car. Nevertheless, illegal immigrants who uses fake social security numbers are guilty of a felony. The Illegal Immigration and .Immigration Act of 1996 makes it a felony for a person to "knowingly makes any false statement or claim that he is, or at any time has been, a citizen or national of the United States, with the intent to obtain on behalf of himself, or any other person, any Federal or State benefit or service, or to engage unlawfully in employment in the United States."
16
Right you are, Wm. Case. But as far as the Times and its flock are concerned, what's one or two felonies among friends?
15
Please Google Robert Guenterberg. Our government helps illegals to continue to use real American citizens. The 2 illegal Hispanics fraudulently using my husband's SSN since 1992 were found innocent of identity theft because they bought his number and didn't know it belonged to him. Never mind the other felonies like getting home loans, vehicle loans, credit cards and not filling income tax returns. Instead everyone owed money came after my husband including the IRS!
11
“We’re living in a new era now, an era of war on immigrants,”
Yeah right. We're living in a new era now, an era where our immigration laws are enforced and illegals are deported.
Fixed!
Yeah right. We're living in a new era now, an era where our immigration laws are enforced and illegals are deported.
Fixed!
22
I feel bad for the lady, but all I know is that if I, as a legal citizen, was caught using a fraudulent SS card to "better my family", I would go to jail for a long time...
27
But if the US won't issue you a card, what choice do you have but to make one yourself?
2
You go back home. Maybe you should spend a little less time with that pipe, peter.
9
How sad that this woman's deportation is considered a "win" for Trump and his supporters. American is now safer and some deprived American will be able to take her job, and maybe raise her children too. Congratulations.
2
Google Robert Guenterberg. This illegal should have been deported before she had a chance to have anchor babies
9
It is a win, it shows that President Trump has resolve and was not deterred by the demonstration in Phoenix in seeing that the laws be faithfully executed, as is his duty. Obama would have wrung his hands and granted her humanitarian parole or something. Today, she's on the outside looking in and that's a good thing.
Her husband, an illegal who did not get caught in criminality, can take care of the kids, who are teens anyway. Possibly at that age they're not too unhappy about having Mom only available via Skype.
Her husband, an illegal who did not get caught in criminality, can take care of the kids, who are teens anyway. Possibly at that age they're not too unhappy about having Mom only available via Skype.
1
We will never solve the illegal immigrant problem until we admit that many businesses hire illegals because there are no other workers available to do the job. It is fraudulent to attack and punish the employee workers and not the employers. I can guarantee that Trumps golf course in Jupiter is staffed by a large number of illegal immigrants. They work in the kitchens prepping food, they clear the tables in the restaurant, they work for companies that take care of the landscape. They clean the homes and are on landscape crews for every home owner in the adjacent Bear Club. The work on building crews doing roofing and stucco work. They are painters and tile finishers. Our community's can not function without them because they keep costs down.
This problem could have been solved decades ago with work visa purchasable at Embassies for low skilled workers. They would be cheaper and safer than paying Coyotes. But then you would have to pay them the prevailing wage with benefits and that is something that Republican small business owners including Donald Trump will never do. And now that he is running the show you will pretend to arrest the workers and not the employers and you continue to blow smoke over e-verify. I suspect that e-verify has been a failure because the Republican controlled Congress has refused to properly fund it.
This problem could have been solved decades ago with work visa purchasable at Embassies for low skilled workers. They would be cheaper and safer than paying Coyotes. But then you would have to pay them the prevailing wage with benefits and that is something that Republican small business owners including Donald Trump will never do. And now that he is running the show you will pretend to arrest the workers and not the employers and you continue to blow smoke over e-verify. I suspect that e-verify has been a failure because the Republican controlled Congress has refused to properly fund it.
8
"...there are no other workers available to do the job..."
True. But that's not the same as saying "there are no other *people* available...," because there most certainly are. The real question is this: Why won't they?
True. But that's not the same as saying "there are no other *people* available...," because there most certainly are. The real question is this: Why won't they?
4
There are plenty of other workers available to do the job. They can't get hired because even though they are American citizens they are the victims of discrimination from both American and most shamefully, foreign nationals (illegal immigrants)
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-discrimination-temporary-staff...
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-discrimination-temporary-staff...
8
"I can guarantee that Trumps golf course in Jupiter is staffed by a large number of illegal immigrants."
I strongly doubt this. The embarrassment and political disadvantages of having that proven would have been clear to President Trump while preparing his successful campaign. You won't find any illegals. I'm sure the press looked with great enthusiasm during the past two years.
I strongly doubt this. The embarrassment and political disadvantages of having that proven would have been clear to President Trump while preparing his successful campaign. You won't find any illegals. I'm sure the press looked with great enthusiasm during the past two years.
2
No Americans can or will do the backbreaking labor of planting, weeding, and harvesting crops under the scorching sun, having to walk through a field to get to a Porta Potty, risking the harmful effects of pesticides and dehydration. The Mexicans are out in our fields where I live, bent over all day cutting cabbage, one after another after another, then tossing them into boxes. In the apple orchards they go up and down ladders all day long picking the fruit, filling enormous pallet boxes. The trees have all been sprayed with pesticides and it is very dangerous work. They can't wear gloves because the fruit is very delicate. The poisons get all over their clothes and wind up inside their vehicles and then their homes where they can easily get onto their children. No Americans will do this work--most of them would rather starve than go out into a field and work. I urge everyone to read this article about Baby Carlitos, who was one of several babies born deformed to Mexican mothers who had worked in tomato fields in Florida. http://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/news/carlitos/
In addition, there is an excellent book written by Gabriel Thompson called Working in the Shadows: A Year of Doing the Jobs (Most) Americans Won't Do.
I urge every American, starting with Donald Trump to inform themselves about the kind of work Mexicans do in this country.
In addition, there is an excellent book written by Gabriel Thompson called Working in the Shadows: A Year of Doing the Jobs (Most) Americans Won't Do.
I urge every American, starting with Donald Trump to inform themselves about the kind of work Mexicans do in this country.
13
How we must have starved before enticing these people to do that work! It's almost like we have no agricultural visas.
2
If there is a shortage of labor we can always increase the number of legal immigrants. Don't need to institutionalize illegal aliens in our economy.
2
I wish illegals just worked the fields. We have migrant workers for that. Illegals do landscaping, construction, and food service. They work for cash.Employers like to pay them lower wages, and like not paying unemployment insurance or workers comp. We don't need illegals!
15
It is about time we started deporting illegal immigrants. - all of them. Her family can join her in Mexico so don't cry crocodile tears about family separation.
If her husband was also illegal he should have been arrested for deportation also.
I do not feel at all sorry for her. She was criminal with a felony conviction who should have been deported long ago. Have US born children should never he used as a shield to avoid deportation.
I hope to see an increase in Deportation now that we have a President ant attorney general who is serious about the problem of illegal aliens in the US.
If her husband was also illegal he should have been arrested for deportation also.
I do not feel at all sorry for her. She was criminal with a felony conviction who should have been deported long ago. Have US born children should never he used as a shield to avoid deportation.
I hope to see an increase in Deportation now that we have a President ant attorney general who is serious about the problem of illegal aliens in the US.
34
You might not have empathy for this family, but don't accuse others of crocodile tears. We feel great distress. Have you noticed the demonstrations all over our country?
2
And by the way go in the fields harvesting tomatoes, fruits and vegetables, because when all the Latin American illegals will be out, nobody will be there to put food on YOUR table!
3
Don't forget to run down there and apply for her job, now that she's gone.
6
Wow, keeping America safe from the mother of two American teenagers. Way to go. And for you naysayers: The US is facing a crisis in terms of funding Social Security and Medicare due to the fact that the population is aging. Young people are needed, at beyond the level supplied by current 1.88 births per woman in the US, to keep these programs funded.
7
That is a problem that will not be solved by your ponzi scheme.
8
The social security taxes withheld from an illegals paycheck go into the Social Security Suspension File. Sorry but we don't need illegal workers here. Just put the people working part time and getting food stamps to work full time!
12
Regressives are fine with law-breaking as long as the law-breakers vote Democrat.
And don't hand me that nonsense that it's illegal for illegals to vote.
And don't hand me that nonsense that it's illegal for illegals to vote.
16
In many cases the employer is well aware that a worker is using a false social security number. I have represented HR employees who were terminated after they raised issues about the blind eye of the employer who hired one employee three times under two names and three different social security numbers. Often this is accomplished by treating the worker as a "contract employee " so that the employer does not have to file a W-2. Ms. Garcia de Rayos is simply another worker that serves as fodder for employers, Joe Arpaio and the Trump folks.
8
There is a huge positive unintended consequence. SS taxes are paid to the Feds and SS benefits are never paid to these individuals. At the height of illegal immigration, contributions by illegals to SS amounted to approximately $7 billion. These monies were included in the SS budget.
6
There is another NYT's article concerning large scale farmers in the California Imperial Valley...fear that Trump will deport thousands of illegal field hands. The consequence would be, as articulated by some of the growers, lack of skilled labor to maintain and harvest the produce. Wages can be $11/hr.
The growers voted for Trump on the anticipation of lower corporate taxes. They had not anticipated illegal immigration enforcement. (When I read that, I almost howled with glee). They bought the campaign Okey dokey.
The growers should take heart, the job vacancies can create jobs for "real Americans"...part of the deported cadre of pickers, pluckers, and bed. makers vacancies.
The growers voted for Trump on the anticipation of lower corporate taxes. They had not anticipated illegal immigration enforcement. (When I read that, I almost howled with glee). They bought the campaign Okey dokey.
The growers should take heart, the job vacancies can create jobs for "real Americans"...part of the deported cadre of pickers, pluckers, and bed. makers vacancies.
5
Elsewhere in The New York Times, righteous liberals are screaming at the top of their lungs that the US is a nation that lives by the Rule of Law. They are telling us that Trump's horrifying attacks on that "so-called judge" in Washington State is an existential threat to the very foundations of this great country (great, except, of course, for slavery, genocide, misogyny and general white male supremacy). Trump threatens the very system of checks and balances that ensure freedom and democracy for all when he challenges the juciciary.
That's elsewhere in The Times. In Phoenix, when the Rule of Law is put into effect, righteous liberals want nothing to do with THAT law. In Phoenix, the judiciary, in this case AG Holder's DOJ removal order in May 2013 based upon a conviction for identity theft, is a threat to the foundations of this great country.
A Nation of Laws. Except for the laws they don't like.
That's elsewhere in The Times. In Phoenix, when the Rule of Law is put into effect, righteous liberals want nothing to do with THAT law. In Phoenix, the judiciary, in this case AG Holder's DOJ removal order in May 2013 based upon a conviction for identity theft, is a threat to the foundations of this great country.
A Nation of Laws. Except for the laws they don't like.
29
The harm of her actions... is to the millions of people in the wide world who applied for immigration to the US in the legal manner, and were denied. Many of those denied might indeed have faced a more repressive government than that of Mexico, and might have had skills more helpful to US society than she had. Maybe those denied were Yazidis, or Rohynga, or Jewish or Christian minorities in Sudan, Afghanistan, or even Egypt.
I don't think she is a bad person. I don't want her deciding the US immigration policy with her feet, though, particularly when a consequence of her decision is that the greater US public becomes ill-disposed to legal immigrants from terribly dangerous places like war zones.
I don't think she is a bad person. I don't want her deciding the US immigration policy with her feet, though, particularly when a consequence of her decision is that the greater US public becomes ill-disposed to legal immigrants from terribly dangerous places like war zones.
14
The quotas for people who apply for immigration are in no way connected to illegal immigration.
5
This story is about a woman who broke two major federal laws, one for immigrating to this country illegally, the other for what is essentially identity theft, and the NYT runs a tiny violin story about how terrible it is for her and her family? How about how terrible it is for the taxpayers who have subsidized this woman and her family, and the tens of millions of other illegal immigrants who have lived in this country and leeched resources for decades? The U.S. has been unfailingly generous, and when we say we can't offer free rides anymore, we're branded as racists and xenophobes. How did we become the only country in the world that is not allowed to act in its own interests?
30
Exactly. Well said. I am not convinced that this woman was able to have two pregnancies here and raise two children here on a waterpark salary. What medical benefits did she have when she had her children. A policy paid for by the private waterpark? Sure
13
I worked Labor and Delivery in a LA County hospital. Most patients were Spanish -only speaking. Although I have no way of knowing, many were likely without legal documents. Often, they would arrive from Mexico several weeks before delivery. They would all receive emergency medi-cal as well as WIC assistance.
4
Guadalupe García de Rayos isn't being deported because she used a fake social security number. She is being deported because her present in the country is unlawful. She could be fined, sentenced to six months in prison and then deported, but she will simply be deported.
8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper Entry by Alien
Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper Entry by Alien
Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
21
Can I just point out that the article states that she was using a "phony", "fake" SS#. Nowhere does it state that she stole someone else's identity. She was arrested on suspicion of that offense, but that is not what she was convicted of. So, please stop using the term "identity theft". That is not true. Also, she was 14 when she came here - she was a child at the time. She was working, and paying taxes, and raising her family. Really, people, how, exactly, has she injured anyone?
10
She and her husband held jobs that should have gone to American citizens. That's costing us jobs, and we pay out more in unemployment and benefits to citizens because they don't have jobs that have gone to illegals.
Had she not been here she would not have had children here who take up space in school and occupy time and attention of the teacher that otherwise would have gone to children of parents rightfully here.
Someone paid the tax dollars for what she drew in benefits. What she drew in benefits, for herself and kids, might equal what an increasingly-rare West Virginia coal miner paid in taxes and would you like to explain to him how well his taxes were used?
Had she not been here she would not have had children here who take up space in school and occupy time and attention of the teacher that otherwise would have gone to children of parents rightfully here.
Someone paid the tax dollars for what she drew in benefits. What she drew in benefits, for herself and kids, might equal what an increasingly-rare West Virginia coal miner paid in taxes and would you like to explain to him how well his taxes were used?
3
The Presidential Apprentice will rejoice that America has been made great again.
Perhaps he'll deport Nordstrom's next.
Perhaps he'll deport Nordstrom's next.
4
Only if their undocumented. And if so We the American people would like them to show up early.
4
They've got a foreign sounding name so they must be illegal.
1
I expect Nordstrom's will self deport from most red states due to lack of business. Sad!
"We are a nation of laws"
"We are a nation of immigrants"
What this story proves is that we are also a nation of heartless, ruthless bureaucrats, lawmakers, and citizens. To allow this issue to fester for so long and deny for so long the reality of immigration through our southern border and the unseen and unacknowledged benefit these immigrants bring to our country and economy is a travesty of the ages.
We want to believe we are a democracy. Democracy is supposed to be the best way to identify and, through the will of the people, find ways to solve problems. Instead, we elect people who lie to us about what the problems are and what the solutions are and then they go out and pass laws that create more problems. And then we re-elect them.
If all these immigrants had been unable to find work here, they would have gone back home and stayed. Immigrants are supplying what U.S. employers and the U.S. economy and citizens demand. It's that simple. But lawmakers refuse to accept that. Instead, Republican lawmakers turn it into a morality issue, insisting that moral employers won't hire undocumented workers and moral people don't immigrate to another country through improper means and moral consumers won't purchase products made/harvested through immoral means.
At what point, though, does adhering so ruthlessly to this self-righteous sense of morality become shameful and immoral? We have come to that point.
America has broken democracy.
"We are a nation of immigrants"
What this story proves is that we are also a nation of heartless, ruthless bureaucrats, lawmakers, and citizens. To allow this issue to fester for so long and deny for so long the reality of immigration through our southern border and the unseen and unacknowledged benefit these immigrants bring to our country and economy is a travesty of the ages.
We want to believe we are a democracy. Democracy is supposed to be the best way to identify and, through the will of the people, find ways to solve problems. Instead, we elect people who lie to us about what the problems are and what the solutions are and then they go out and pass laws that create more problems. And then we re-elect them.
If all these immigrants had been unable to find work here, they would have gone back home and stayed. Immigrants are supplying what U.S. employers and the U.S. economy and citizens demand. It's that simple. But lawmakers refuse to accept that. Instead, Republican lawmakers turn it into a morality issue, insisting that moral employers won't hire undocumented workers and moral people don't immigrate to another country through improper means and moral consumers won't purchase products made/harvested through immoral means.
At what point, though, does adhering so ruthlessly to this self-righteous sense of morality become shameful and immoral? We have come to that point.
America has broken democracy.
17
If I chose to rob a bank, I've broken the law and must be treated accordingly. I don't get a pass because I've got a family but I go to jail.
If you break our immigration laws, you did that knowingly, voluntarily and you must be treated accordingly. You knew the law before you broke it and now you have to be responsible for YOUR choices so save your comments about shame and immorality.
Buh-bye!
If you break our immigration laws, you did that knowingly, voluntarily and you must be treated accordingly. You knew the law before you broke it and now you have to be responsible for YOUR choices so save your comments about shame and immorality.
Buh-bye!
10
I love america, been here as an illegal since 2000 and been using fake docs the whole time and on welfare too the whole kit and kaboodle. Aloha Snackbar dummies.....Give me more welfare venues.
2
The U.S. in NOT a democracy, it's a constitutional republic, with borders and laws. And if you break them, be prepared to suffer the consequences. It may sound heartless, but we are not a country without borders.
6
No More. The stinking party will turn us all into fragments. We must then get down on our scaly knees and pray--as Arthur Koestler suggested back in another epoch, on another question.
1
I supported Trump for three things: reality-based foreign policy (recognize Russian interests in Donbas and Crimea); restoring sovereignty (at border, in immigration policy, and trade policy.
I DO NOT WANT NON-CRIMINAL ILLEGALS DEPORTED. It says she has a felony conviction. I cannot find out what her conviction was. Nor when it occurred. If it was non-violent, and occurred >10 years ago, she should NOT be in the first group of deportees!
I DO NOT WANT NON-CRIMINAL ILLEGALS DEPORTED. It says she has a felony conviction. I cannot find out what her conviction was. Nor when it occurred. If it was non-violent, and occurred >10 years ago, she should NOT be in the first group of deportees!
12
Identity theft for using a fake SS card?
4
Well, then, Brian, like the rest of us, you'll have to settle for getting half a loaf, or maybe more than that. But no one bats a thousand, there are always things you disagree with. For me, it's Gorsuch as SC candidate (I would have preferred Pryor), for you is they're not moving quite to your specs on border control and they're deporting felons you'd prefer to keep. So it goes. MAGA.
2
She was convicted of a class 6 Felony. She had a fake SSI number. She should have been deported long ago. If we are to ever gain control over out southern border, then we need to deport any and every illegal alien we find. No illegal alien is free of crime -
9
People should not be given citizenship just because they are born in the U.S. Change the law now. However, parents of children born here -- and who were granted citizenship in the past -- should now be offered a clear path to citizenship themselves. It's stupid to have a policy where American kids don't have parents who can legally work to support them. That makes these American kids dependent on taxpayer dollars for support.
6
Having grow up in a "missionary family" I know fof a fact that the majority of missionaries do not have BS degrees in anything other than unacredited psudo-sciences. Which means they are most often only able to get tourist visas lying to local, regional, and national government around the world about their intentions to immagrate for religious or social reasons.
And using other means in these countries to illegally make money when times are lean or when the home church they come from eventually forgets about them in an out of sight out of mind fasion.
The only way they justify being in these places is the notion and gut feeling that G-d sent them
So - why is it a different set of rules for the most often brown Christian from Mexico or Hunduras et al [and other places] who feel that G-d led them here within the United States of America.
The only difference is so colonially institutionalized systemic racism that even innocent well intentioned people are blind to their own cognitive dissonance of the hipocritical double standard.
And using other means in these countries to illegally make money when times are lean or when the home church they come from eventually forgets about them in an out of sight out of mind fasion.
The only way they justify being in these places is the notion and gut feeling that G-d sent them
So - why is it a different set of rules for the most often brown Christian from Mexico or Hunduras et al [and other places] who feel that G-d led them here within the United States of America.
The only difference is so colonially institutionalized systemic racism that even innocent well intentioned people are blind to their own cognitive dissonance of the hipocritical double standard.
4
Two wrongs do not make a right.
3
This lady was a missionary from Mexico who asked for permission to enter the country?
No?
Ok then..
No?
Ok then..
5
She was guilty of identity theft. Did not respect our laws. Obama sent deportation papers in motion in 2013. Her family can go back with her. I'm sorry, but this is over. She's not here legally. It's time to take care of business and it has to start somewhere.
Now why doesn't the Times do a story on the many times Obama broke constitutional law. There are plenty of sources available for them to do some actual reportage of his crimes.
Now why doesn't the Times do a story on the many times Obama broke constitutional law. There are plenty of sources available for them to do some actual reportage of his crimes.
29
You mean as opposed to when the current president violated the Constitution on the day of his inauguration when he took the oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States via his ownership of the hotel in Washington DC which Bears his name and for which he continues to receive income notwithstanding the fact that this is barred by a particular Clause of the Constitution? To say nothing of the ethical and constitutional violations that continue to occur on a daily basis as a result of his business interests around the world.
5
While I oppose illegal immigration, I also possess a great deal of empathy for people stranded in poverty and seeking a better life, people who don't possess the connections, status, access to resources that can help them improve their circumstances. Many in the US can draw upon available resources to shape their destiny, some more than others. Life is bleaker and more hopeless elsewhere.
Rayos was working at an amusement park, 21 years after coming here. And it's likely that for 21 years she was paying into our social security system (as are most of the other 11 million illegal immigrants) for benefits she probably won't be able to draw upon but that boost the wealth of the program for Americans. So essentially what she got in exchange for her illegal status was the opportunity to raise a family in a stable environment in a modest way.
I wish the Times would look into the amusement park Rayos worked for. Are other undocumented workers employed there? Does Sunsplash intentionally hire the undocumented to keep labor costs down? Does Sunsplash provide benefits like health care? What are the employment guidelines regarding work hours? We demonize the illegal worker but rarely scrutinize those who employ them. What I'm getting to is that illegal immigration is a partnership, a joint activity between illegals and employers that has long supported and encouraged illegal immigration. One would not exist without the other.
Rayos was working at an amusement park, 21 years after coming here. And it's likely that for 21 years she was paying into our social security system (as are most of the other 11 million illegal immigrants) for benefits she probably won't be able to draw upon but that boost the wealth of the program for Americans. So essentially what she got in exchange for her illegal status was the opportunity to raise a family in a stable environment in a modest way.
I wish the Times would look into the amusement park Rayos worked for. Are other undocumented workers employed there? Does Sunsplash intentionally hire the undocumented to keep labor costs down? Does Sunsplash provide benefits like health care? What are the employment guidelines regarding work hours? We demonize the illegal worker but rarely scrutinize those who employ them. What I'm getting to is that illegal immigration is a partnership, a joint activity between illegals and employers that has long supported and encouraged illegal immigration. One would not exist without the other.
12
I wonder what the person whose real social security number it was feels about this? Or are they even aware? Better this than using it to empty their bank account with, I suppose.
13
And the basis for your absurd assertion that this woman or anyone else has used a false social security number to empty a bank account is what precisely?
2
Actually the person, who's social security number was used, should be happy. That person will show higher wages because of Ms. Rayos's earnings, so that person's retirement benefits will be higher.
What happens to this person who has to pay back into Social Security for money received but didn't earn to pay into SS. If government SS workers and officials don't do something now, someone in the future is going to be hurt.
5
Yes finally thank God.
As others have already noted, identity theft is not the same as borrowing a cup of sugar and failing to return the cup. It causes real, complicated, ongoing misery for the victims, who often know nothing of what was taken from them until their lives are suddenly upended. They are often people without the means of getting the problem rectified before it has irreparably harmed them.
"My mother's only crime" was not in trying to provide for her children. It was in building a life on fraud and having children who would be irreparably harmed by her act.
This country has already failed so many would-be immigrants to whom we owed a prior debt. It has already failed those immigrants who began the legal process long before, and found their children, or some of their children, aged out of the legal visa process and who have indeed faced the anguish of family separation. We have much to be accountable for, but not to people like these.
As others have already noted, identity theft is not the same as borrowing a cup of sugar and failing to return the cup. It causes real, complicated, ongoing misery for the victims, who often know nothing of what was taken from them until their lives are suddenly upended. They are often people without the means of getting the problem rectified before it has irreparably harmed them.
"My mother's only crime" was not in trying to provide for her children. It was in building a life on fraud and having children who would be irreparably harmed by her act.
This country has already failed so many would-be immigrants to whom we owed a prior debt. It has already failed those immigrants who began the legal process long before, and found their children, or some of their children, aged out of the legal visa process and who have indeed faced the anguish of family separation. We have much to be accountable for, but not to people like these.
21
Until you can tell me what specific harm the alleged victim experienced as a result of the use of a fake Social Security number for which you have no evidence as to whom it may have belonged, you are merely engaged in speculation.
1
Using a made-up SS number is not identity theft. It is being a good citizen and contributing to the economy by paying taxes.
1
The next level scam that goes with use of SS cards not one's own is that the rightful SS holder files taxes and collects the earned income tax credit. This is in "payment" for the use of a borrowed identity.
3
Crooked lying Trump has many vices, too many to count, but cruelty seems his favorite pastime; never a uniter, always a divider, leaving society's Unit, the family, stranded and in despair. What next, deport a mother while her child is in school? It seems as though petty nastiness must be penned to trump's narcissistic personality, and a lack of compassion not seen since the days of Andrew Jackson, a slave driver.
6
I imagine some friendly federal judge in Seattle somewhere will issue a nationwide injunction against deporting her despite the final deportation order. Then he'll extend it to everyone else.
Conflict between the executive and the judicial, my money's on President Trump.
Conflict between the executive and the judicial, my money's on President Trump.
8
So why, since 2008, seven years ago, when Ms Rayos started to check in annually to ICE, did she not then request a path to LEGAL citizenship? Why did the system not help her in a legal capacity for the last seven years?
"war on immigrants"? No. Legal immigrants are very welcome. Illegal immigrants are not entitled to be here.
I've found that the people most resentful of illegal aliens are people from other countries that came to this country legally. My workplace employs many legal immigrants. They have less empathy for illegal aliens than domestically born citizens.
"war on immigrants"? No. Legal immigrants are very welcome. Illegal immigrants are not entitled to be here.
I've found that the people most resentful of illegal aliens are people from other countries that came to this country legally. My workplace employs many legal immigrants. They have less empathy for illegal aliens than domestically born citizens.
22
There is and was no legal path for her. Our government cannot come up with a good bipartisan immigration plan that would offer a poor Mexican woman a viable path to any sort of visa.
It is easy to criticize illegal immigrants but if your choice was dire poverty or a chance to feed, clothe and educate your children what would you do? Would you have the strength and courage to leave your country and work illegally in a foreign land? I hope you would have that courage. I hope you would not turn to worse crimes. She took a desperate gamble, broke laws and finally lost. For her and her family that is a genuine tragedy.
Resources are not infinite and the economic reality is that the US cannot rescue everyone. We do have the need and right to control immigration and know the identities of those in our country. But we can also do a LOT more to help those with the courage and drive to risk everything and work hard to make a life for their kids. They are the exactly the sort of immigrants we need to keep America great. They are not job stealers. They are paying into the system and given half a chance will be job creators in the future.
It is easy to criticize illegal immigrants but if your choice was dire poverty or a chance to feed, clothe and educate your children what would you do? Would you have the strength and courage to leave your country and work illegally in a foreign land? I hope you would have that courage. I hope you would not turn to worse crimes. She took a desperate gamble, broke laws and finally lost. For her and her family that is a genuine tragedy.
Resources are not infinite and the economic reality is that the US cannot rescue everyone. We do have the need and right to control immigration and know the identities of those in our country. But we can also do a LOT more to help those with the courage and drive to risk everything and work hard to make a life for their kids. They are the exactly the sort of immigrants we need to keep America great. They are not job stealers. They are paying into the system and given half a chance will be job creators in the future.
2
As a test case, this one is pretty stinky. Start with the raid by the former Maricopa Sheriff Joe Arpaio. The same sheriff named "the nation's worst sheriff" by the NYTimes. His bad behavior lost the Maricopa County Sheriffs the authority to identify and detain illegal immigrants. Along with election violations, failure to investigate sexual assault cases, and costing the County more than $100 million in fines, he has been found in contempt of court and was involved in a really weird fake bombing plot to boost his election results. And, there's still more But, moving on: Andrew Thomas was the Attorney General for Maricopa County when Ms. Rayos was arrested. He has since been disbarred for multiple corruption charges. He also failed to bring ANY charges against Ms. Rayos' then employer, Mesa- based Golfland Sunsplash but he did manage to conduct lengthy, expensive, and ultimately fruitless prosecution of a single manager at that company. Yes, we need sensible immigration reform but nothing about this case will help us get there.
5
Why not just admit she did it and was responsible for her own actions?
12
Identity theft by illegal aliens is not a victimless crime. W-2s are issued in the name and under the Social Security numbers of the identity theft victim and are reported to the IRS. When the victim files a tax return and does not list the false income, it triggers a raft of notices and documents from the IRS. It takes an enormous amount of time for the victim to clear up the issue with the IRS. Identity theft is a serious crime.
20
"The reason she was arrested was not that she had entered the United States illegally, a civil offense..."
The author of the article is either woefully ignorant or so partisan as to believe the law to be unacceptable truth.
In fact, entry into the United States illegally is NOT merely a civil offense. It is a crime under federal law. For the first improper entry offense, the person can be fined (as a criminal penalty), or imprisoned for up to six months, or both. For a subsequent offense, the person can be fined or imprisoned for up to two years, or both. See 8 U.S.C. Section 1325, I.N.A. Section 275.
It is also worth noting that Mexico takes an even dimmer view of those who cross its borders illegally.Under the Mexican law, illegal immigration is a felony, punishable by up to two years in prison. Immigrants who are deported and attempt to re-enter can be imprisoned for 10 years. Visa violators can be sentenced to six-year terms. Mexicans who help illegal immigrants are considered criminals.
Facts matter, but sometimes they don't fit the narrative...
The author of the article is either woefully ignorant or so partisan as to believe the law to be unacceptable truth.
In fact, entry into the United States illegally is NOT merely a civil offense. It is a crime under federal law. For the first improper entry offense, the person can be fined (as a criminal penalty), or imprisoned for up to six months, or both. For a subsequent offense, the person can be fined or imprisoned for up to two years, or both. See 8 U.S.C. Section 1325, I.N.A. Section 275.
It is also worth noting that Mexico takes an even dimmer view of those who cross its borders illegally.Under the Mexican law, illegal immigration is a felony, punishable by up to two years in prison. Immigrants who are deported and attempt to re-enter can be imprisoned for 10 years. Visa violators can be sentenced to six-year terms. Mexicans who help illegal immigrants are considered criminals.
Facts matter, but sometimes they don't fit the narrative...
24
Reminds me of the trick motto above the gates at Dachau: "Work will make you free."
7
As Australia does, nobody who is here illegally should ever get to apply for citizenship. They've already failed their citizenship test.
Nor should they ever get the opportunity to re-enter the country for any reason, ever.
That may discourage illegal entries.
Get in line like the rest do and wait your turn.
Nor should they ever get the opportunity to re-enter the country for any reason, ever.
That may discourage illegal entries.
Get in line like the rest do and wait your turn.
18
Unfortunately the only way to get to the US is to have a close relative here. That rules out most people wanting to come, but allows a select few to import their entire extended family. There should be a fair way of allocating visas.
3
What's your problem, Fernanda? If people break our laws by entering and remaining in our country illegally, and then commit identity theft by using fake documents to obtain government benefits and jobs, then they are to be treated as felons.
Even Illinois senator Obama said that illegals have no place in our country of laws and they should be dealt with stringently.
Even Illinois senator Obama said that illegals have no place in our country of laws and they should be dealt with stringently.
15
Back home they go. To build their own country, to petition their own government for services, aid, education for their children.
No country I have ever been in tolerates illegal stay without visa.
Now, this must stop. Sorry it did not happen sooner. It is not your fault that you took advantage.
No country I have ever been in tolerates illegal stay without visa.
Now, this must stop. Sorry it did not happen sooner. It is not your fault that you took advantage.
19
of course it's sad for the family. But what is the alternative of not enforcing laws? It's a choice like Lybia, Iraq: sure the dictator is bad guy - but if we remove it, who's the alternative? That's the key point for making choices.
In this case the alternative is having a growing population of immigrants who do not pay the thousands of dollars that legal immigrants have to pay to enter and stay in this country legally. What impact would that have on legal immigration? It would just encourage people to skip the legal process - which is costly and a pain in the neck. If there is no downside in coming here illegally then why bother at all with the forms, the fees, and the interviews?
This country would just become like a train station: a place of passage that nobody cares about.
So now, who wants to live in a train station?
In this case the alternative is having a growing population of immigrants who do not pay the thousands of dollars that legal immigrants have to pay to enter and stay in this country legally. What impact would that have on legal immigration? It would just encourage people to skip the legal process - which is costly and a pain in the neck. If there is no downside in coming here illegally then why bother at all with the forms, the fees, and the interviews?
This country would just become like a train station: a place of passage that nobody cares about.
So now, who wants to live in a train station?
9
She broke our laws 21 years ago by illegally crossing into our country. , She was caught at a raid in 2008 as being illegal....and we let her off. She was caught using a fake social security number identity theft and another felony.
It was her poor decisions (potentially)dividing her family. Not Trump's. Don't complain to me because you want to break our laws. That's the kind of thinking that made Mexico such a wonderful place to get the heck out of so you can come here and turn it into Mexico. No thanks.
It was her poor decisions (potentially)dividing her family. Not Trump's. Don't complain to me because you want to break our laws. That's the kind of thinking that made Mexico such a wonderful place to get the heck out of so you can come here and turn it into Mexico. No thanks.
13
Just wait until they apply the rules to green card holders.
Alien is not limited to 'illegal' but includes those permanent legal residents.
Criminal offenses for Deportation purposes Is actually pretty broad.
So a person comes legally at age 2, grows up in some suburb, culturally assimilated in every way and at the age of 50, has been arrested twice for having, smoking, growing pot.
Now what?
"...In addition, the following convictions are also grounds for removal criminal deportation:
-convicted after admission of any violation of a federal, state, or foreign law or regulation relating to a controlled substance (other than a single offense for possessing 30 grams or less of marijuana for personal use);
-is, or at any time after admission has been, a drug abuser or drug addict;"
Immigration Hyenas are gathering. Sad.
Alien is not limited to 'illegal' but includes those permanent legal residents.
Criminal offenses for Deportation purposes Is actually pretty broad.
So a person comes legally at age 2, grows up in some suburb, culturally assimilated in every way and at the age of 50, has been arrested twice for having, smoking, growing pot.
Now what?
"...In addition, the following convictions are also grounds for removal criminal deportation:
-convicted after admission of any violation of a federal, state, or foreign law or regulation relating to a controlled substance (other than a single offense for possessing 30 grams or less of marijuana for personal use);
-is, or at any time after admission has been, a drug abuser or drug addict;"
Immigration Hyenas are gathering. Sad.
2
You certainly do get what you ask for in elections; Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Florida, please take note. What's happening here in Arizona today is disgusting, arresting long-term, peaceful and productive (and no doubt tax-paying) illegal immigrants but notably not arresting a single illegal drug dealer. Huh. Michigan, there go your cherry pickers, Florida, there go your citrus and field workers.
Another article in the NYT today talks about the Trump-supporting California farmers worries of losing their workers. Perhaps the Trump Administration is going to force the Rust Belt unemployed to move to California and find work in the fields.
Ms. Rayos didn't steal an identity; she made one up. Such a crime, Mr. President . . . but breaking the emoluments clause and violating the terms of a lease aren't? Interesting.
Another article in the NYT today talks about the Trump-supporting California farmers worries of losing their workers. Perhaps the Trump Administration is going to force the Rust Belt unemployed to move to California and find work in the fields.
Ms. Rayos didn't steal an identity; she made one up. Such a crime, Mr. President . . . but breaking the emoluments clause and violating the terms of a lease aren't? Interesting.
5
Are you giving the Rust Belt Working Class, "Presidential Treatment", for trying to vote their way out of an unwarranted situation?
1
I for one feel MUCH safer now that this "criminal" is no longer a threat to our national security. With all the real crime that needs policing, why are we squandering valuable resources, breaking up families, and ruining lives?
2
There seems to be an epic failure of the NewYork Centric Social Register to grasp the change in the course of history. Everyone connected to NYC and its extensive network of Power, preaches the parable of "Ellis Island". The NYer can recite the entire Emma Lazarus poem about "tired, hungry masses yearning to be free" etc etc. But they lose track of the facts. Ellis Island represents a brief 40 year stretch in the much broader spectrum of American History....and Emma Lazarus has NO connection to the Ellis Island waves of immigrants......she's from one of the oldest families in NYC, going back to when it was a Dutch Colony called New Amsterdam....maybe summa y'all heard of it? And the Statue of Liberty is designed to face its duplicate statue over in France....as back then US and France were paying homage to each other as beacons , lighting the way for the rest of the worlds march towards NOT america, but their own liberte, egalite, et fraterite. Red White and blue......maybe sum of y'all more perceptive ones have noticed that the US flag and the French flag share the same color scheme??
NOW.....40 years ago, out of the generous spirit of America, we enacted the Immigration Act of 1965. This open door no regulation of immigration policy has served its purpose, but is now completely out-of-sync with the challenges of the Modern World.
Its time to repeal it.
NOW.....40 years ago, out of the generous spirit of America, we enacted the Immigration Act of 1965. This open door no regulation of immigration policy has served its purpose, but is now completely out-of-sync with the challenges of the Modern World.
Its time to repeal it.
3
It is a myth that the US Statue of Liberty faces the one in Paris. Paris is further North than New York, and the statue faces southeast. The other one does face towards New York, or at least did at one time.
1
Yes. And the case law interpreting the Citizenship Clause contained in Section One of the Fourteenth Amendment to allow a child born to noncitizens to be given birthright citizenship should be overruled. It is absurd. And it's absurdity is emphasized by the so-called anchor babies born in this country to illegals. It's sheer madness...
2
Trump will destroy this country for all people except the wealthy. By driving this country into the ground he would make the immigrants' country the better place to live. Immigrant problem solved.
1
A Modest Proposal:
1. Repeal the Immigration Act of 1965.
2. End Dual-Citizenship>
When ya come to america, we'll welcome you and treat you right.
If ya wanna assimilate thats even better, we'll help ya do it.
But if ya wanna hold on to all that baggage that forced you to escape to America......back ya go.
1. Repeal the Immigration Act of 1965.
2. End Dual-Citizenship>
When ya come to america, we'll welcome you and treat you right.
If ya wanna assimilate thats even better, we'll help ya do it.
But if ya wanna hold on to all that baggage that forced you to escape to America......back ya go.
5
That she entered illegally, and then effectively hid out for twenty years during periods of nonenforcement, gives her some kind of legal right now to remain? That does not follow.
14
Does anyone (lawyers, social workers, etc) have any suggestions for those of us out there who desperately want to stand up to this injustice and help this family but don't know how? I donate to the ACLU, but what else can be done right now that might actually help this family (and the thousands who are in similar positions)?
4
Tickets to Mazatlan and assistance there would be one good way, right? Right?
8
Amnesty International?
Finally the law will be enforced judiciously under this administration. Viva Trump!
8
There are many USA citizens, me included, who voted for for a tougher stance on immigration. Send her back and send the law breaking protesters to jail (no bail) as well. Guilty illegal alien protestors should perform public works projects to pay costs associated with their unlawful activities. Then deports them. Also I suggest Feds and States prosecute businesses owners who use illegal non tax-paying workers to pad their profits. Business owner exploitation of illegal, invisible aliens is a despicable criminal activity that puts the illegals plight under the owner’s control. Owners do not withheld Fed State taxes against illegal workers earnings. This impacts Fed tax revenues. Business owners are probably under-reporting taxes on business profits as well. Illegals turn to and get free Obama sponsored Medicaid and Child benefit programs. All this contributes to fraud and a rising US National debt. This National debt will be left to future US generations to figure out.
12
When a yo-yo goes up and down, who's to say what the right direction for it to be going should be. Obama sent her in one, now Trump in the other. I'm sure she never wanted to be a yo-yo, in the first place, yet we decided to make her one.
We didn't invite her here.
4
Just immigrate legally and there won't be problems!!!!! We are not Wildebeest that can migrate across any country boundaries. If she had been waiting 8 years. Why couldn't she have done that in Mexico and waited her turn?
9
Good riddance foreign invader! What did America ever get by having her here? Nothing but more expenses! She broke the law by coming, she broke the law with ID theft, supposedly so that she could get a job and pay taxes to contribute to America... right... How much did she ever actually pay in taxes? I am sure that she got every penny back that she paid, plus whole load of extra AMERICAN money (EIC and other low income deductions). She never gave anything to America. She is nothing but an invader, a thief and a taker! Send them all back to where they came from. They are NOT Americas problem to take care of, other than kicking them out and keeping them out.
15
Trump is vile. He is unfit to be our President and his daily tirades on twitter are so embarrassing.
With that said, I am in full support of this woman being held for deportation.
An illegal immigrant stole someone's identity. Has anyone here been a victim of identity theft? I have and not only does it screw with everything attached to you financially, it also takes a toll on you emotionally.
Let's start with the financial. I spent thousands of dollars in legal fees to correct the damage done. That's money I will never ever get back. Every time I interacted with creditors (especially for the first three months), I was treated like a criminal. Do you know what that's like? It's not a good feeling.
It took me 2 years to get my particular circumstance cleaned up although there are times when it pops up. For example when we refinanced our house last year, it popped-up somewhere and even though we had the appropriate documentation to overcome whatever they came across, it still doubled the amount of time to process our refinance.
Emotionally, I still suffer from anxiety every time I pay with anything but cash or when I'm asked for my SSN.
So yes, I get where you all are coming from (i.e. She's not violent, she's working, she's raising a family) but still, I fully support her being sent back to her country of origin. Stolen identity is not a victimless crime.
With that said, I am in full support of this woman being held for deportation.
An illegal immigrant stole someone's identity. Has anyone here been a victim of identity theft? I have and not only does it screw with everything attached to you financially, it also takes a toll on you emotionally.
Let's start with the financial. I spent thousands of dollars in legal fees to correct the damage done. That's money I will never ever get back. Every time I interacted with creditors (especially for the first three months), I was treated like a criminal. Do you know what that's like? It's not a good feeling.
It took me 2 years to get my particular circumstance cleaned up although there are times when it pops up. For example when we refinanced our house last year, it popped-up somewhere and even though we had the appropriate documentation to overcome whatever they came across, it still doubled the amount of time to process our refinance.
Emotionally, I still suffer from anxiety every time I pay with anything but cash or when I'm asked for my SSN.
So yes, I get where you all are coming from (i.e. She's not violent, she's working, she's raising a family) but still, I fully support her being sent back to her country of origin. Stolen identity is not a victimless crime.
11
I sympathize, and my family _has_ been victimized by identity theft. I agree it is demoralizing and traumatic - but how much more so for a _child_ in our country who never had an official "identity" to begin with.
Perhaps there is some middle ground? Perhaps in such a case the person, when identified, should be asked to make recompense in some fashion to the individual who was harmed?
The punishment needs to fit the crime. In a case where a person who was a mere child herself when circumstances originally led her into such desperate straits that she would use someone else's social security number, perhaps the punishment needs to be a penalty commensurate with her present earning power. For far greater offenses, celebrities and people of means get "community service" or probation. Even a brief jail term would be more humane than deportation, ripping her away from own underage children, who need her in every way including financially (obviously!)
It also has to be considered that her record was clean in every other way. Crimes committed in desperation are always handled more leniently than crimes committed for greed or malice. She did what she did in order to WORK - it's not like she was part of a drug gang or something. Again, the punishment simply did not fit the crime. And her children may be punished worst of all, and that is despicable any way you look at it.
Perhaps there is some middle ground? Perhaps in such a case the person, when identified, should be asked to make recompense in some fashion to the individual who was harmed?
The punishment needs to fit the crime. In a case where a person who was a mere child herself when circumstances originally led her into such desperate straits that she would use someone else's social security number, perhaps the punishment needs to be a penalty commensurate with her present earning power. For far greater offenses, celebrities and people of means get "community service" or probation. Even a brief jail term would be more humane than deportation, ripping her away from own underage children, who need her in every way including financially (obviously!)
It also has to be considered that her record was clean in every other way. Crimes committed in desperation are always handled more leniently than crimes committed for greed or malice. She did what she did in order to WORK - it's not like she was part of a drug gang or something. Again, the punishment simply did not fit the crime. And her children may be punished worst of all, and that is despicable any way you look at it.
The story says she made up a social security number. She did not steal someone's identity. Clearly if she had stolen an identity, she would have been charged with that crime.
1
I had some difficulty in finding an article that actually detailed what she was convicted of, but the statute is this, from Arizona's criminal code.
13-2006. Criminal impersonation; classification
A. A person commits criminal impersonation by:
1. Assuming a false identity with the intent to defraud another; or
2. Pretending to be a representative of some person or organization with the intent to defraud; or
3. Pretending to be, or assuming a false identity of, an employee or a representative of some person or organization with the intent to induce another person to provide or allow access to property. This paragraph does not apply to peace officers in the performance of their duties.
B. Criminal impersonation is a class 6 felony.
13-2006. Criminal impersonation; classification
A. A person commits criminal impersonation by:
1. Assuming a false identity with the intent to defraud another; or
2. Pretending to be a representative of some person or organization with the intent to defraud; or
3. Pretending to be, or assuming a false identity of, an employee or a representative of some person or organization with the intent to induce another person to provide or allow access to property. This paragraph does not apply to peace officers in the performance of their duties.
B. Criminal impersonation is a class 6 felony.
'Self-deportation' is looking pretty good now, huh?
9
My daughter was the victim of identity theft in Arizona. An illegal immigrant stole my 12 year old daughter's Social Security number and ruined any opportunity she had to establish her credit as a young adult. This haunts her into adulthood. I have a difficult time separating my sympathy for a young woman's life circumstances and her quest to find a better life from the commission of a crime that very likely had an innocent victim somewhere along the way. Unfortunately, in this instance, a consequence is due for what should rightly be considered a felony. Make no mistake, identity theft always has victims!
28
identity thief is a crime punishable with jail! Thousands had their SS# and identity stolen by illegals completely messing up their lives.
26
Oh stop it; she may have very well have been using a number from a friend or family member; you've obviously never been in such a desperate state that you had to resort to breaking the law. Privilege much?
If she had such an excuse, it would be trumpeted in the story. Such is not the case. This story was shopped to the media professionally. They would not have omitted such an affecting detail.
4
These anecdotes are sad. BUT:
1. Anyone who is here illegally knows it (other than children). They took their chances and should not get what legal immigrants wait for.
2. If you claim that illegal entry is not a crime, make it one.
3. Stop the permissive attitude where citizens can automatically get citizenship for relatives.....if they want to see them daily, do not immigrate. We cannot keep paying benefits to everyone.
4. The idea of a Green Card needs to change. You qualify to live here forever? Become a citizen. Period. Do it within 10 years, or goodbye.
5. LEARN THE LANGUAGE. This should be mandatory. Nobody will succeed here without English; we need to stop facilitating the failure to integrate into American society.
1. Anyone who is here illegally knows it (other than children). They took their chances and should not get what legal immigrants wait for.
2. If you claim that illegal entry is not a crime, make it one.
3. Stop the permissive attitude where citizens can automatically get citizenship for relatives.....if they want to see them daily, do not immigrate. We cannot keep paying benefits to everyone.
4. The idea of a Green Card needs to change. You qualify to live here forever? Become a citizen. Period. Do it within 10 years, or goodbye.
5. LEARN THE LANGUAGE. This should be mandatory. Nobody will succeed here without English; we need to stop facilitating the failure to integrate into American society.
25
Regarding learning the language: Most Italian, Chinese, polish, etc immigrants from the 20th century did not learn the language. I've been to the homes of these people and they love America.
4
Do you speak Talawa of any dialect? Ojibwa? Navaho? [Without which you'd be speaking nihongo now and making the same idiotic arguements since sin is a part of being alert and self aware.
Do you speak Iroquois?
Hawai'ian then?
American Sign Language? Do you ever read Braille 2, do you know Morris Code?
Do you even know where the largest pyramid in the world is located? Yes it is relavant.
Let thrown you a bone - do you speak Gullah dialect of English and Seminole?
How about this - lets go with European-American Languages on the dialect train - do you speak AmishDuetch? What about the language of the nearly 1 million or more white namadic dessert wonderers that only the Navajo mostly run into on there Rez? Can you read old Mormon alphabet? What about California 'Bootlange'?
Tagalog has been the eighth most spoken language in America since the end of world war 2 - Can you speak Taglish even?
Cafe you comfortable code switch into any variant down the dialect train of the Urban phonic with friends, sports competitors, potwntial lovers, on the flirt, or with kids, and the elderly?
Did you know the the country with the most English reading and writing population is China?
Do you know that The most linguistically diverse state in the United States of America is Utah?
Grow yourself a set of brass overies and get over your English only silliness.
It is a beautiful world - we all shod work at living in it.
Do you speak Iroquois?
Hawai'ian then?
American Sign Language? Do you ever read Braille 2, do you know Morris Code?
Do you even know where the largest pyramid in the world is located? Yes it is relavant.
Let thrown you a bone - do you speak Gullah dialect of English and Seminole?
How about this - lets go with European-American Languages on the dialect train - do you speak AmishDuetch? What about the language of the nearly 1 million or more white namadic dessert wonderers that only the Navajo mostly run into on there Rez? Can you read old Mormon alphabet? What about California 'Bootlange'?
Tagalog has been the eighth most spoken language in America since the end of world war 2 - Can you speak Taglish even?
Cafe you comfortable code switch into any variant down the dialect train of the Urban phonic with friends, sports competitors, potwntial lovers, on the flirt, or with kids, and the elderly?
Did you know the the country with the most English reading and writing population is China?
Do you know that The most linguistically diverse state in the United States of America is Utah?
Grow yourself a set of brass overies and get over your English only silliness.
It is a beautiful world - we all shod work at living in it.
1
It's dreadful to imagine a surgeon could be so ignorant.
"Anyone who is here illegally knows it (other than children)."
Yeah, the children are always a thoughtless parenthetical, aren't they."Other than children." Whatever.
"Anyone who is here illegally knows it (other than children)."
Yeah, the children are always a thoughtless parenthetical, aren't they."Other than children." Whatever.
1
Sorry, Rayos is a criminal trespasser nothing more and should have been deported the moment she was first caught stealing ID.
She jumped the line in front of law abiding immigration seekers.
Had she been deported at the first incident her complications, anchor babies, wouldn't be here either
She has made no contributions to the US, she invaded and stole from it.
ADIOS
We should be putting citizens and people seeking LEGAL immigration first over such invaders.
She jumped the line in front of law abiding immigration seekers.
Had she been deported at the first incident her complications, anchor babies, wouldn't be here either
She has made no contributions to the US, she invaded and stole from it.
ADIOS
We should be putting citizens and people seeking LEGAL immigration first over such invaders.
28
Crossing the border illegally is a civil offense, not a criminal one. She couldn't come legally under any circumstances. She is a contributing American and needs to stay, through a reasonable path to legalization.
1
1st) Are you or are you not a: 'native born immagrant refugee"?
2nd) Are you claiming that you agree with your ancestors actions [or memetic ancestors if your European Ancestors came to this place fleeing oppression someplace else - like a different Standinv Rock during an ealier place and time in recent European history] of invading and slaughtering millions taking advantages of each nations differences rather than healing their divides?
Answer wisely - what there is left of your own moral concience is listening to what you type as a reply.
2nd) Are you claiming that you agree with your ancestors actions [or memetic ancestors if your European Ancestors came to this place fleeing oppression someplace else - like a different Standinv Rock during an ealier place and time in recent European history] of invading and slaughtering millions taking advantages of each nations differences rather than healing their divides?
Answer wisely - what there is left of your own moral concience is listening to what you type as a reply.
She worked. She did use a fake social security number. She has no other criminal record. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
1
I'm torn. I do feel sorry for her, to be uprooted from the life you know is a rough thing. On the other hand, she did come here illegally.
For those saying we should just deport every illegal immigrant (even if this were possible, which it isn't) keep something in mind. Much of our agriculture is dependent on illegal immigrants. That cheap produce you get at Walmart, Albertson's or the like? It's only cheap because the people picking and sorting it are here illegally and their employers underpay them. Frankly, if we were to deport all the illegal immigrants that industry would collapse.
Not long ago, Alabama tried out harsh punitive measures against illegal immigrants, those who employed them or even helped them (such as renting them a room). Thousands of them left the state and the produce rotted in the fields. As it turns out, workings class American citizens are *not* willing to do that work.
For those saying we should just deport every illegal immigrant (even if this were possible, which it isn't) keep something in mind. Much of our agriculture is dependent on illegal immigrants. That cheap produce you get at Walmart, Albertson's or the like? It's only cheap because the people picking and sorting it are here illegally and their employers underpay them. Frankly, if we were to deport all the illegal immigrants that industry would collapse.
Not long ago, Alabama tried out harsh punitive measures against illegal immigrants, those who employed them or even helped them (such as renting them a room). Thousands of them left the state and the produce rotted in the fields. As it turns out, workings class American citizens are *not* willing to do that work.
9
The produce rotting in fields was the choice of the farmers...they could have paid a high enough wage so that people would apply for the job. They chose not to. No one is entitled to cheap labor.
2
Ada, only 17% of illegal immigrants work in agriculture. The rest are taking jobs that many Americans would be only too happy to have.
The federal government could make it easier for farmers to bring in low-cost foreign laborers, on a temporary basis, without their families. When these laborers return home, their money will go further in their own countries.
The federal government could make it easier for farmers to bring in low-cost foreign laborers, on a temporary basis, without their families. When these laborers return home, their money will go further in their own countries.
5
Shame on working class American citizens for not picking vegetables and fruits so privileged class American citizens in sanctuary cities can enjoy a fresh salad prepared by their undocumented nannies or gardeners.
7
Now we will have deportations predicated upon what kind of a mood the individual Border Patrol agents are in. Some shifts will be crueler than others. The units with the lowest office morale will be the cruelest of all. What a mess.
8
Good...
4
Her husband is an illegal alien also. He should be deported as well.
28
Ms. Rayos should have been deported immediately to Mexico upon being arrested for identity theft and using someone else's social security number. Those who have ever been victims of identity theft know that the damage caused by this crime can follow you for years wherever you go. It can affect your getting a car or home loan and can cause you to lose everything. It can become a living nightmare and is not a victimless crime. I have very little pity for Ms. Rayos for the suffering she put her victims through and she should pack her bags and depart for Mexico.
26
Don't confuse what this lady did with the identity theft that you are riled up over. Typically the use of another person's social security in this type of case will increase the account of the actual holder or at most raise a question with social security.
It is easy speaking from the perspective of privilege to criticize the "illegal" actions of a young woman from poverty who bravely crossed a border to seek a better life for herself. Is it so hard for us to put ourselves in her shoes--try to imagine holding down a job and feeding her young children? Who in the same situation would not have done the exact same thing? Where is our compassion? America claims to be a Christian nation, but it is losing its heart and its soul. Shame.
7
"who bravely crossed a border"
But that was an illegal act. What moral distinction to you make between that, and bravely stealing from the store to feed kids to bravely breaking into my home to steal and feed her kids, escape from poverty etc? You assign all importance to her motive, and you believe it worthy, and I do not. So we have laws to determine outcomes. She broke our laws, and committed a federal felony. Mexico is the place, where, when she has to go there, they have to take her in. Send her.
But that was an illegal act. What moral distinction to you make between that, and bravely stealing from the store to feed kids to bravely breaking into my home to steal and feed her kids, escape from poverty etc? You assign all importance to her motive, and you believe it worthy, and I do not. So we have laws to determine outcomes. She broke our laws, and committed a federal felony. Mexico is the place, where, when she has to go there, they have to take her in. Send her.
7
To Kimmy in Mexico:
Mexicans and Central Americans must think that America has an endless supply of unskilled and low-skilled jobs, hospitals, schools, social services workers, and so on. We do not. The Mexicans and Central Americans who have come here, without permission, are taking our jobs and depleting our resources.
Mexico and Central American countries have resources. Why don’t they liberalize their economies and end corruption? By accepting people from these countries, we are preventing them from having to change.
Mexicans and Central Americans must think that America has an endless supply of unskilled and low-skilled jobs, hospitals, schools, social services workers, and so on. We do not. The Mexicans and Central Americans who have come here, without permission, are taking our jobs and depleting our resources.
Mexico and Central American countries have resources. Why don’t they liberalize their economies and end corruption? By accepting people from these countries, we are preventing them from having to change.
8
Why aren't there many millions of illegal aliens living in Canada?
It's because they enforce their immigration laws.
It's because they enforce their immigration laws.
31
Stringently.
9
Maybe if you took a look at a map, you'd figure out that geography is the main reason there aren't millions of illegal aliens in Canada. How would you suggest they sneak into Canada? Over the North Pole? Maybe they could walk across the Bering sea and down the coast of Alaska. Or run across the USA.
The other reason there aren't millions of "illegal aliens" is that Canada has a very open immigration policy. And refugee policy.
The other reason there aren't millions of "illegal aliens" is that Canada has a very open immigration policy. And refugee policy.
1
Putting aside the argument that Ms. Garcia de Rayos broke a law, unjust or just according to each individual - at this point in the economy, the real issue is this: the employer is really responsible for enabling a crime. If the citizens posting here are so concerned about someone breaking the law and being employed here without official permission, then they would propose amending the Constitution to forbid / ban birthright citizenship (jus soli) and only allow Jus sanguinis citizenship. Most of the Latin American countries have jus soli citizenship laws, thus most people would not be left stateless as a result of it.
But coming back to her act: she did it to get a job to feed kids. Was her crime one that caused material harm? No. Meanwhile, bankers that cheated people of life savings and their homes walked free in 2008, having done immeasurable damage to the working people. This case is symptomatic of the class discrimination in this country: the rich walk, having caused real harm; but we choose to prosecute the poor and working class to pat ourselves on the back as moral arbiters of what is right. Did you ever stop and think that the US caused the conditions that facilitated illegal migration? Check the stats: every time a darn "free trade" agreement was signed, the illegal migration sky rocketed. http://www.npr.org/2013/12/26/257255787/wave-of-illegal-immigrants-gains...
But coming back to her act: she did it to get a job to feed kids. Was her crime one that caused material harm? No. Meanwhile, bankers that cheated people of life savings and their homes walked free in 2008, having done immeasurable damage to the working people. This case is symptomatic of the class discrimination in this country: the rich walk, having caused real harm; but we choose to prosecute the poor and working class to pat ourselves on the back as moral arbiters of what is right. Did you ever stop and think that the US caused the conditions that facilitated illegal migration? Check the stats: every time a darn "free trade" agreement was signed, the illegal migration sky rocketed. http://www.npr.org/2013/12/26/257255787/wave-of-illegal-immigrants-gains...
11
Every day brings a new low. Today, the arrival of the dystopian future where people are separated from their families and hauled off to unknown destinations without due process.
8
She got due process. Eight years of it. Not getting what you want is not a failure of due process.
7
Due process? The US Department of Justice issued a removal order in May 2013. That would be Obama's DOJ headed by AG Holder.
5
So the number of people complying with this sort of annual check in goes down.....and you can get rid of your neighbors with a bogus crime report. SMDH.
5
Exactly. I wonder how many people showed up for their ICE appointments today?
2
She should have left with her family when her son was in second grade. The breaking up of her family is entirely her fault. Because of her illegal entry she was able to enjoy life here for years, that those who are waiting in line for legal entry could not. It is high time to pay for her actions
29
Why not make it possible for people to come legally without it taking twenty years if you don't have $50,000. to pay up front like the Saudis or the Chinese millionaires who can afford to buy their green cards? Our entire system has been corrupted by the bought Republicans, paid for by Koch, Trump, and De Vos billionaires, who want no-union slave labor. Does anyone in the construction or hotel trades go to jail or pay enormous fines for hiring non-union or below minimum wage labor? No, we deport the helpless mothers, who were brought here as children from families seeking a way out of poverty. Mexican and Central American workers should have an open way to work and return to Mexico or their countries, and pay taxes based on minimum or union wages. Also, Mexico is not a pathetic country, even if many, as in ours, are poor. Many Americans go there to start businesses and to retire in a better, cheaper way. Finally, how much did it cost the American taxpayers to deport Ms. Rayos? How much will it cost her family and the American taxpayer to support her American children without her presence? How would you like to be deported to country your family left over twenty years ago? Will this also extend to American citizens if the Trump fascists have their way? My grandparents escaped Poland after having most of their families murdered. I have no idea how "pristine" the papers were that got them in; they did what they had to do and so would have all the hypocritical posters if able.
5
This illegal immigrant and her equally illegal husband have been taking jobs away from ordinary Americans. They and millions of other illegal immigrants have flooded the unskilled and low-skilled job market, lowering the wages that employers must pay. One out of 6 able-bodied Americans is out of work, and one out of 10 Americans overall. Many have become so discouraged at finding a decent-paying job that they have stopped looking for work. This includes many minorities, particularly American Blacks. While out-sourcing and automation have decreased the number of jobs, we do not need any illegal immigrants to take any of the left-over ones. Harvard economist George Borjas found that the rate of Black employment dropped as the number of illegal immigrants increased.
This couple should return to their own country, and take their children with them.
This couple should return to their own country, and take their children with them.
21
So begins Donald Trump's imitation of the "Trail of Tears", Andrew Jackson's pitiless expulsion of Choctaw, Cherokee and other natives from their lands in the Southeastern United States in order to give theseto poor white supporters. Certainly. her expulsion does irreparable harm to her American citizen children.
Add to that the extraordinary discretion given to individual ICE officers, who are not trained judges, to expel at will illegal aliens, thought they have not committed serious crimes. You have a recipe for a flood of arbitrarily determined expulsions of perfectly decent people, comparable in effect to the Trail of Tears.
I hope ICE officials read, in addition to the executive order, the Sermon on the Mount and temper their actions with common sense and mercy for innocent families, who are about to loss their mothers and fathers under this unnecessarily cruel executive order.
Add to that the extraordinary discretion given to individual ICE officers, who are not trained judges, to expel at will illegal aliens, thought they have not committed serious crimes. You have a recipe for a flood of arbitrarily determined expulsions of perfectly decent people, comparable in effect to the Trail of Tears.
I hope ICE officials read, in addition to the executive order, the Sermon on the Mount and temper their actions with common sense and mercy for innocent families, who are about to loss their mothers and fathers under this unnecessarily cruel executive order.
7
Adios and don't forget 'la Bandera de Mexico'. It could get cold in your country.
5
This is who they choose to make the face of the new deportation policy? This is going to further convince sanctuary cities that they are right to not cooperate with ICE.
9
Yeah, like Chicago and Frisco were wavering.
2
Justice? This person was deported for breaking the law years ago. I get it. She was essentially on probation and followed th rules of the requirements given to her and appears to have lived on the straight and narrow. She used the SS number to feed herself and her family. She did not get any benefits otherwise provided by having a SS number that we are aware of. Should she have been deported? I would say no, as would most folks who have a shred of humility but, the new "sheriff in town" says YES! This is the same dirty but "extremely succesful" business man who that has clogged our court systems with innumerable litigation to rip off the people he just didn't want to pay and been on the receiving end of those who he should have paid but screwed them instead. He has been found guilty of discriminatory practices as a land lord and who just paid $6 MILLION dollars to settle a law suit for scamming students of his SHAM of a real estate "school". Anyone who supports or who does not see the absolute wrongness in this situation needs to get their glasses and their souls checked. Both are dirty and polluted by this egregious excuse of a man and his poisonous wreak. He will harm all of us with his hate in the end. Fiends will become enemies and we are seen as fools.
6
You mean to tell me it's not okay to sneak into a foreign nation and use a fake social security card?? Darn. I guess that means i'm going to have to get a passport and obey some laws. Total inconvenience! I'm really going to give these customs officers a piece of my mind.
24
Reading this article along with comments and reading and listening to the leftist media in general I feel that I am part of one of those alternate reality Star Trek episodes The subject of the article is here ILEGALLY. What part of this is not UNDERSTOOD? She has no right to be in this country at all Can I just illegally go to any country I want and have the right to stay there indefinitely? Obviously not. You leftists do not get it. You rhetoric is loudly promoted through the media outlets sympathetic to your cause Please be advised that your nonsense is not accepted by a huge part of our country Am I mistaken or did Trump not win the election with over 300 electoral votes?
18
Am I mistaken or did Trump lose the popular vote by almost 3 million votes?
1
Your point about the illegality of this woman's presence here is well taken. However, your last comment about Trump electoral win (only) is not. He lost the popular vote by nearly 3 million. The immigration question predated the election by decades. Solutions are possible but few have had the political will to address them. I see both sides; advocates on both will have to learn to negotiate and recognize some truths - that legal immigration and citizenship is a slow and expensive process puttingbit out of reach for many, and that some workers have been undercut by cheap immigrant labor who don't insist on workplace safety or fair treatment. These to name a few. Trump is unlikely to broker those dialogues either.
Oh, are you Native American or are you here legally because when your ancestors got off the boat, U.S. did not have the same immigration policies?
3
That is crazy! That poor Woman. If I had known about that, I have no doubt that I would have been with that support group!
6
How is it okay to deport the parent of U.S. citizens, still minors, a parent who most likely used a false social security number to get a job to support her children (again, U.S. citizens)? What happens if their father is deported? We are essentially turning these children into orphans. How can these children do all the things that make a person successful (such as focusing on their education) when living under such a threat to the stability of their home life (emotional and financial)?
9
By not making arrangements to take her family, she is making them orphans. In Arizona she would pay a sales tax, have some portion of her monies go to property tax....and other sundry fees. But from the top. Two children in the schools would eat up much or all that. Yes, they are citizens. But would not be so if their mom had followed the law. She has used the roads, the commerce et al for twenty years. It is not that she received nothing for those taxes.
Yes it is sad, but the responsible party is she!
Yes it is sad, but the responsible party is she!
5
You ask "Which would be more valuable to the US?" Just on the basis of this article and your comment I have no reason not to think that Guadalupe García de Rayos is as valuable (if not more so) to the US as any of the people who fall into those categories you feel are so special. And since artist is one of those categories, she very well could be one. Don't even like saying that. Because it drags me into a value system I deeply dislike. But its just that it doesn't seem to occur to you (at least in this context) that "illegal immigrants" could be artists. In terms of "importance", hopefully none of us (and that very much includes you in the UK) will be seen as being important in the way the forces of hatred and xenophobia are seeing and treating Guadalupe García de Rayos right now.
And just for the record I'm "on the left."
Even though the official mood of this country is growing uglier by the day, if you don't get your work visa maybe you can find work here. But I would have said that also to the younger you who had a job in the water park. Both of whom I am sure would (have been) wonderful to know.
And just for the record I'm "on the left."
Even though the official mood of this country is growing uglier by the day, if you don't get your work visa maybe you can find work here. But I would have said that also to the younger you who had a job in the water park. Both of whom I am sure would (have been) wonderful to know.
4
Yet, no one has been charged or punished for the criminal malfeasance in the banking and Wall Street industries that went on during the first decade of 21st century, and continues on.
Always the poor and downtrodden getting the shaft. Heck our own President now confirms this belief.
Always the poor and downtrodden getting the shaft. Heck our own President now confirms this belief.
21
Banking and Wall Street received an ambiguous pardon. The President said nothing about crimes being committed. Now, it can only be argued if he didn't uphold the Constitution.
1
Where is the rest of the story. Ms Rayos and her husband are in the country illegally, and she has been convicted of impersonating on the basis of using someone else's Social Security card. She has been working in the country for 21 years. Has she filed income tax returns for any of those years? Has she been working off-the-books and not paying taxes? Where is she living, and did she buy a home with her non reported income? Is she collecting food stamps and Medicaid benefits for her American born children on the basis of fraudulent under reporting of income? Looking at her lifestyle, can her income be estimated?
When she went in for her visits to ICE were they even allowed to ask her how she was supporting herself and her children since she was not legally permitted to work? Does she have savings in a Mexican or other foreign bank?
Who is paying her lawyer to fight the legality of the employer raid in 2008.
There are a lot of questions. We know that the federal government had her in custody for six months. She has a deportation order. Is she entitled to additional "due process"? Why can't she just be bused to the border and dropped off?
Are any of the protesters who were arrested in the country illegally and will they be deported.
The narrative is that she came from poverty and was living the American dream, but for the sword of Damocles of her illegal presence in the country. If she's been living the American dream, did that include paying taxes.
When she went in for her visits to ICE were they even allowed to ask her how she was supporting herself and her children since she was not legally permitted to work? Does she have savings in a Mexican or other foreign bank?
Who is paying her lawyer to fight the legality of the employer raid in 2008.
There are a lot of questions. We know that the federal government had her in custody for six months. She has a deportation order. Is she entitled to additional "due process"? Why can't she just be bused to the border and dropped off?
Are any of the protesters who were arrested in the country illegally and will they be deported.
The narrative is that she came from poverty and was living the American dream, but for the sword of Damocles of her illegal presence in the country. If she's been living the American dream, did that include paying taxes.
33
By your logic Mr. Trump is the first person to be thrown out of US. He is truly living an American dream: never paid taxes, cheated fellow Americans (Trump University Inc., etc) and now running a banana republic. Welcome to the world of alternate facts!
6
There are indisputable facts here which justify the ICE action, but none the less it is still unwise.
We know ICE and the courts are overburdened. She was working and unless it was "off the books", paying withholding taxes. She paid sales taxes. There are two citizen children. There is no mention of stealing government benefits. Arizona undoubtedly has alien drug dealers and violent criminals, and alien single males with no dependent children here. Deport them and use the limited resources to do so. Then look at aliens who are exploiting other aliens, for profit. This lady seems way down the list of people who need deportation action in the short term.
We know ICE and the courts are overburdened. She was working and unless it was "off the books", paying withholding taxes. She paid sales taxes. There are two citizen children. There is no mention of stealing government benefits. Arizona undoubtedly has alien drug dealers and violent criminals, and alien single males with no dependent children here. Deport them and use the limited resources to do so. Then look at aliens who are exploiting other aliens, for profit. This lady seems way down the list of people who need deportation action in the short term.
11
The fact is that without a legal right to remain in the US, the undocumented population is living in a legal limbo and is subject to immediate deportation. That is a terrible way to live and exist in a society, but ultimately it is a choice with consequences. I support action to provide a path to legalization for such persons, but they cannot expect not suffer the consequences of their choices in the meantime.
9
We need to make employing illegals a felony with mandatory jail time. Business owner, or CEO or the HR rep who cleared them. This would stop illegal employment and stop the influx of people who cheat the process and come here illegally.
19
["...could easily apply to a majority of undocumented immigrants in the United States.
“We’re living in a new era now, an era of war on immigrants,]
I am socially liberal on most issues and I don't think rounding up otherwise law abiding illegal immigrants is a good use of our limited resources. I think there are many more pressing issues we should spend our time and money doing. That being said, words matter. This would not be a war against all immigrants, it is action against illegal immigrants. They are going after foreigners who disregarded our laws because they felt it was more convenient to do so. It is not going after immigrants like my mother who followed the law and is now a US citizen. Now Trump's EO that barred legal immigrants with green cards IS a war against immigrants and likely illegal. That is why it is being challenged by our courts. I don't agree with the priorities of this administration, but actually enforcing our immigration laws is certainly legal actions for them to engage in.
“We’re living in a new era now, an era of war on immigrants,]
I am socially liberal on most issues and I don't think rounding up otherwise law abiding illegal immigrants is a good use of our limited resources. I think there are many more pressing issues we should spend our time and money doing. That being said, words matter. This would not be a war against all immigrants, it is action against illegal immigrants. They are going after foreigners who disregarded our laws because they felt it was more convenient to do so. It is not going after immigrants like my mother who followed the law and is now a US citizen. Now Trump's EO that barred legal immigrants with green cards IS a war against immigrants and likely illegal. That is why it is being challenged by our courts. I don't agree with the priorities of this administration, but actually enforcing our immigration laws is certainly legal actions for them to engage in.
11
Up at the top: or eight years, Guadalupe García de Rayos had checked in at the federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement office here
Halfway down: Yasmeen Pitts O’Keefe, a spokeswoman for ICE, said in a statement that Ms. Rayos “is currently being detained by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement based on removal order issued by the Department of Justice’s Executive Office for Immigration Review” in May 2013.
One bureaucrat has been getting paid to talk to her for eight years. Another group of bureaucrats issued a paper deportation order ("removal order") four years ago that apparently had no relevance or effect.
Maybe this is the future of the U.S. economy. For every undocumented immigrant there will be a corresponding government worker who shuffles paper related to that immigrant.
Halfway down: Yasmeen Pitts O’Keefe, a spokeswoman for ICE, said in a statement that Ms. Rayos “is currently being detained by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement based on removal order issued by the Department of Justice’s Executive Office for Immigration Review” in May 2013.
One bureaucrat has been getting paid to talk to her for eight years. Another group of bureaucrats issued a paper deportation order ("removal order") four years ago that apparently had no relevance or effect.
Maybe this is the future of the U.S. economy. For every undocumented immigrant there will be a corresponding government worker who shuffles paper related to that immigrant.
13
" For every undocumented immigrant there will be a corresponding government worker who shuffles paper related to that immigrant."
That sounds like the situation at the Department of Agriculture where there are more bureaucrats than there are farmers so every farmer could have his own personal bureaucrat(s). The government worshiping "progressives" love these situations since they can never have too many useless, parasitic, self-serving bureaucrats on the public payroll.
That sounds like the situation at the Department of Agriculture where there are more bureaucrats than there are farmers so every farmer could have his own personal bureaucrat(s). The government worshiping "progressives" love these situations since they can never have too many useless, parasitic, self-serving bureaucrats on the public payroll.
A bus ticket to the border for her and a guard would be cheaper. But we know what it is. This deportation was fought, and expensively so. Now she has been appointed as poster child for the anti-deportation movement and whether she's deported or not, I imagine there will be a lawsuit filed somewhere by tomorrow evening. Another challenge to President Trump is under way.
5
Nobody is saying what she did is ok. We are saying the punishment does not fit the crime. This person is a human being first and foremost. Calling her an "illegal" and her children "anchor babies" is deeply dehumanizing. What's incredible to me about the Right is the melodramatic concern for embryos and fetuses over people like this family. That is really screwed up.
9
There is nothing dehumanizing by the terms illegal immigrants and anchor babies as, indeed, that is what they are. The world is full of almost 7 billion human beings. Should they all be allowed in this country? And your comment about fetuses and embryos in an entirely different discussion.
2
I do not understand the commentators here who so carelessly, listlessly, lightheartedly gloss over the fact that the person described in the article broke the law of this land a couple of times. They simply say 'ok, so what, she did not kill/hurt any one or so, just wants to work, so come on in, this country is free for all'. I mean, really?? Such a haughty, snobbish, and short-sighted attitude of the most popular thoughts in this forum is completely incomprehensible, as is disdain for the law.
18
I don't know when your family arrived on these shores. Mine arrived in 1938 and unfortunately had to cross an ocean. If they could have arrived by land, they would have crawled here and done anything, and everything, to do so. I suspect most everyone's forebears would have; all actively leaving somewhere, all hoping for a better life here. The haughtiness and willful forgetfulness comes from citizens today who somehow believe their past was cleaner or more bright than real history would reveal. It was not. Over and over again, those who are here like to pretend they were never related to immigrants, legal or not. One big magic act how all this happens.
4
Aqsrw. Then what you are saying is the only possible moral position is open borders. No.
2
My family arrived here in 1992, as legal immigrants, and we also had to cross the ocean to get here. After applying for immigration in our country of birth, we had to wait in line for many years in order to leave, as we were repeatedly told that too many people are immigrating illegally and so the quotas for our country of birth had to be cut. We were immediately fired from our jobs and unable to find any other source of income, that being a government run economy at that time. We were literally spat upon and called traitors every single day, in the street, in the stores, oftentimes by people we knew and even by former friends and neighbors. Finally, the government changed currency on us, and only working people were getting their salary in new money, and by that time we have already lost our jobs! I was selling all the contents of our house at the black market, my clothes, and buying bread to survive until the final appointment at the American Embassy.
NOW ASK ME HOW I FEEL ABOUT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION!
NOW ASK ME HOW I FEEL ABOUT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION!
4
Illegal immigration from Mexico and Central America during the last 40 years is the overwhelming cause of the decline of California's public school system from best in the nation to 49th. "Hispanic or Latino" students:
a) fail Language Arts at rates averaging ca. 55% in middle school and ca. 65% in high school;
b) fail Math at rates averaging ca. 60% in middle school and from 80-90% in high school.
This cohort is now the majority, constituting 52% of total students in CA public schools. This percentage has been increasing steadily for a generation, at a rate of 1% per year.
California's future is America's: a workforce characterized by a majority underclass, incapable of developing basic proficiency in reading or writing or quantitative reasoning.
Here's the link to the public website that allows you to filter by ethnicity and other variables:
http://star.cde.ca.gov/star2013/ViewReport.aspx?ps=true&lstTestYear=...
2013 STAR Test Results - State of California
Hispanic or Latino - California Standards Test
Total Enrollment on First Day of Testing: 4,717,427
Total Number Tested: 4,684,210
Total Number Tested in Selected Subgroup [Hispanic or Latino]: 2,460,959
CST Algebra I
Result Type [ = school grade]: 9
# Students Tested: 140,287
% Advanced: 3 %
% Proficient: 10 %
BELOW PROFICIENCY, i.e., failing:
% Basic: 24 %
% Below Basic: 43 %
% Far Below Basic: 20%
a) fail Language Arts at rates averaging ca. 55% in middle school and ca. 65% in high school;
b) fail Math at rates averaging ca. 60% in middle school and from 80-90% in high school.
This cohort is now the majority, constituting 52% of total students in CA public schools. This percentage has been increasing steadily for a generation, at a rate of 1% per year.
California's future is America's: a workforce characterized by a majority underclass, incapable of developing basic proficiency in reading or writing or quantitative reasoning.
Here's the link to the public website that allows you to filter by ethnicity and other variables:
http://star.cde.ca.gov/star2013/ViewReport.aspx?ps=true&lstTestYear=...
2013 STAR Test Results - State of California
Hispanic or Latino - California Standards Test
Total Enrollment on First Day of Testing: 4,717,427
Total Number Tested: 4,684,210
Total Number Tested in Selected Subgroup [Hispanic or Latino]: 2,460,959
CST Algebra I
Result Type [ = school grade]: 9
# Students Tested: 140,287
% Advanced: 3 %
% Proficient: 10 %
BELOW PROFICIENCY, i.e., failing:
% Basic: 24 %
% Below Basic: 43 %
% Far Below Basic: 20%
13
Why does The NY Times hid the fact that these are criminals?
They are not undocumented...
They are illegal...
If the Times was talking about a bank robber would the call the undocumented withdrawals?
They are not undocumented...
They are illegal...
If the Times was talking about a bank robber would the call the undocumented withdrawals?
16
Is the New York Times going to buy me a new car for the one totaled by an illegal immigrant driving without a license and without insurance?
I didn't think so.
When are Americans going to have a Safe Space in their own country?
I didn't think so.
When are Americans going to have a Safe Space in their own country?
25
Or replace the lives of those killed by illegal aliens operating motor vehicles without a license?
12
Yes, your car getting totaled and a family being torn apart are morally equivalent problems. Did you know that the identity theft statute that led to Ms. de Rayos' arrest was declared unconstitutional by the SCOTUS? Flores Figueroa v. United States. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/05/us/05immig.html.
1
The NYT's completely ignores the problems of illegal immigration. They should send a reporter to Long Island which has a large population of people here illegally from Central America. The cost to provide education in our public school and healthcare in our hospitals is significant. There is also increased cost for police because of all of the gang members that have arrived from Central America.
Where are those stories?
Where are those stories?
5
One cannot expect anything else from Arizona. Just look carefully at Senator McCain who at age 80 still manages to ride 2 horses with one behind. SAD
2
So much for Republicans lies that all immigrants had to so was follow the rules.
Republicans left out the fact that they were going to keep change the goal posts.
Republicans left out the fact that they were going to keep change the goal posts.
3
Ironically, the injustice or cruelty that many perceive in the possible deportation of Rayos and others like her, would be far less, if she had been deported within a few months after her initial entry into the US. It's the fact that she essentially "got away with" living and working illegally in the US for so long, that she's been here so long and created a life here that makes her plight sad, and the possibility of deportation seem so cruel.
I agree with many commenters that it seems unnecessarily cruel to deport someone like Rayos. Even though I oppose illegal immigration, I would be in favor of allowing her to stay, given the circumstances. At the same time, I want to see more being done to prevent others immigrating illegally and then only being found 10 or 20 years later, and asked to leave far too long after they've arrived.
I agree with many commenters that it seems unnecessarily cruel to deport someone like Rayos. Even though I oppose illegal immigration, I would be in favor of allowing her to stay, given the circumstances. At the same time, I want to see more being done to prevent others immigrating illegally and then only being found 10 or 20 years later, and asked to leave far too long after they've arrived.
8
The writer keeps referring to these people as "immigrants". They are not "immigrants". They are illegal aliens. Words matter. Definitions matter. These are two different states of being under our laws. As an immigrant, you respected our country and submitted to our laws and came here legally. As an illegal alien, the very first criminal act you committed was entering our country without permission. Then, you take it upon yourself to commit more criminal acts of fraud, by pretending you are here as another person or that you are able to work here legally. And, do whatever else is "necessary" to stay in our country.
We want immigrants but we want people who will agree to uphold our nation of ideals. As our Pledge of Allegiance states, "We are one nation, under law"...Law. As Americans, we are a melting pot of diversity. We come from countries around the world with diverse ways of thinking and doing things. Terrific. Welcome. Make your home here with us! What makes us Americans is that we are a country of laws. We are all equal under the law. No one person or group is greater than another. As Americans, we all agree to be bound by the same laws.
We want immigrants but we want people who will agree to uphold our nation of ideals. As our Pledge of Allegiance states, "We are one nation, under law"...Law. As Americans, we are a melting pot of diversity. We come from countries around the world with diverse ways of thinking and doing things. Terrific. Welcome. Make your home here with us! What makes us Americans is that we are a country of laws. We are all equal under the law. No one person or group is greater than another. As Americans, we all agree to be bound by the same laws.
27
No you are wrong they are immigrants the same as mine were over 100-150 years ago just looking for a better life!
3
Laura is right. My grandparents came from three different countries in the early 1900's. The arrived here legally. My spouse and her family immigrated from here in the 1960's. They all came here legally.
It really is very simple. If you want to live and work in America, come here legally.
It really is very simple. If you want to live and work in America, come here legally.
6
jan M, the term you are searching for is "aspiring immigrant." It is disingenuous to call every person who would like to be in the US an immigrant. They are intruders. The word "immigrant" itself implies a state of being, which according to this story -- detailing her imminent deportation -- this lady does not have, and never has had.
3
How many Americans have used a fake ID in their lives, not to hold a job and feed a family, but just to get drunk when they wanted to? How many Americans broke a law before they turned 18? Now, as punishment, how many Americans spent six months in prison and "detention," or lost their jobs and families? Equal protection under the law should come from American soil, not a plastic card. That's a nationalism I can get behind.
4
Not to gain financial advantage
4
Is the law only black and white if you are brown? The likely Secretary of Labor (Pudzer)and Budget Director (Mulvaney) have both acknowledged they employed household workers "off the books". Those employers have now paid the taxes they failed to pay so we are told it isn't an issue, we should forgive them. Whether these household workers were illegal aliens or citizens Mr Pudzer and Mulvaney appear to have admitted intentionally choosing to evade their tax and insurance obligation as employers. Tax evasion is a felony under federal law. 26 USC 7201. Intentional failure to pay unemployment and workers comp insurance is likely a crime in their states. The rule of law is critically important to our constitutional democracy. How we choose to enforce it, the consequences of that enforcement and when we choose to forgive are equally important.
“Eternal vigilance is not only the price of liberty; eternal vigilance is the price of human decency.” Aldous Huxley Will you be vigilant?
“Eternal vigilance is not only the price of liberty; eternal vigilance is the price of human decency.” Aldous Huxley Will you be vigilant?
4
Another in the NYT's series of sad personal stories to push their narrative that people in our country illegally are just immigrants or undocumented aliens.
Illegal immigration causes many problems in our country. It pushes up the cost of housing in areas that are already overpriced. It depresses wages despite what the left says about no American wanting the work that illegal immigrants do. The citizens who live in the areas with large illegal immigrant populations pay the taxes that cover their use of public education and healthcare services.
Yes, this sounds harsh, but the middle class is past the breaking point. We are a nation of immigrants (legal) and a nation of laws (not just the ones that don't fit your narrative).
Illegal immigration causes many problems in our country. It pushes up the cost of housing in areas that are already overpriced. It depresses wages despite what the left says about no American wanting the work that illegal immigrants do. The citizens who live in the areas with large illegal immigrant populations pay the taxes that cover their use of public education and healthcare services.
Yes, this sounds harsh, but the middle class is past the breaking point. We are a nation of immigrants (legal) and a nation of laws (not just the ones that don't fit your narrative).
14
I wonder what the commentators here would expect to happen if they moved to another country without complying with immigration laws, then were caught forging government documents. In that case, being sent back to from whence you came is about the least-harmful punishment I can imagine.
16
As a student in France, I had to keep my residency card up-to-date. If I didn't, I'd be deported. I spoke French fluently. I was authorized to accept employment only during the summer months. Other countries enforce their laws.
2
She needs to go home and get in line.
Identity left, after all, is not a victimless crime.
Identity left, after all, is not a victimless crime.
18
I'm very liberal when it comes to illegal immigration - my views could hardly be more positive in regards to illegals. I think the DACA people (those brought to the US as children) should be given a fast track to citizenship - and I say this as someone who has been in the US LEGALLY and still waiting in the green card line, with no end in sight. I also think illegal immigrants with no criminal record should be given a chance to become legal, pay taxes, etc. So these are my vies on illegal immigration.
But felony level crimes are a different matter. Even a green card holder would be deported for a major CIMT (crime of moral turpitude), which identity theft is. Had she used a SS number of a relative who consented to it, that would've been another matter. But using SS number of a stranger can put that person in extreme hardship (tax fraud charges) from which they can never recover.
I honestly feel sorry for this lady. But felony-level crimes are unforgivable in immigration. Change the criminal law or reduce her offense to misdemeanor, fine. But as long as she is a FELON I see no hope for her in immigration matters. Every immigration lawyer will tell you that. Nevertheless, I hope she can stay in the US. It's a tough one though.
But felony level crimes are a different matter. Even a green card holder would be deported for a major CIMT (crime of moral turpitude), which identity theft is. Had she used a SS number of a relative who consented to it, that would've been another matter. But using SS number of a stranger can put that person in extreme hardship (tax fraud charges) from which they can never recover.
I honestly feel sorry for this lady. But felony-level crimes are unforgivable in immigration. Change the criminal law or reduce her offense to misdemeanor, fine. But as long as she is a FELON I see no hope for her in immigration matters. Every immigration lawyer will tell you that. Nevertheless, I hope she can stay in the US. It's a tough one though.
13
She paid social security taxes that she will never collect. That is the story behind her use of someone else's social security number. It is a common story around Arizona and I assume other border states.
2
It's not clear if she used a SS number of someone who agreed to that (still wouldn't be okay but at least that would not be a felony level crime). You don't know whether she paid social security taxes as that would depend on the employer. Some immigrants and non-immigrants pay other taxes but not social security one. Many legal non-immigrants (such as H1B visa holders) pay ss taxes but will also never get any benefits unless they become permanent residents or citizens. That's life.
If she did pay those taxes and was not paid as an independent contractor, with full responsibility for taxes.
it's cheaper to understand why people come here, why they stay and the value they bring with them. policy driven by fear is not sustainable.
1
America has lost it's heart, moral compass and collective mind. When did we become such a hateful, stingy and paranoid country? This poor single mother will now be separated from her child and for what? So inhumane and there is never an excuse to be so inhumane.
3
"This poor single mother will now be separated from her child..."
I missed something. Is someone keeping her child rom going with her?
I missed something. Is someone keeping her child rom going with her?
5
1) We are a nation of laws. Whether or not she understood our legal system when she arrived in American illegally, she nonetheless broke our immigration laws upon arrival and must be deported.
2) Illegal aliens who commit document fraud, use SSNs that do not belong to them, and falsify I-9 forms under penalty of perjury clearly are not ordinary law-abiding residents. They may be arrested and prosecuted for felony document fraud and perjury and in, certain states, they may be prosecuted for felony identity theft or felony identity fraud.
3) U.S. law enforcement agencies have observed that identity theft and immigration “go hand in hand.
4) Illegal aliens working with stolen identities and fraudulent documents transfer billions of dollars to foreign nations that would otherwise have been spent and invested in the United States. In October 2008, at a time the United States economy was reeling from an unprecedented financial crisis and a sharp drop in consumer spending, remittances to Mexico rose to $2.4 billion, a 13 percent jump from $2.2 billion in remittances in October 2007.
This blatant breach of our national laws MUST STOP! They are not "undocumented," they are illegal immigrants!
http://cis.org/IdentityTheft#14
2) Illegal aliens who commit document fraud, use SSNs that do not belong to them, and falsify I-9 forms under penalty of perjury clearly are not ordinary law-abiding residents. They may be arrested and prosecuted for felony document fraud and perjury and in, certain states, they may be prosecuted for felony identity theft or felony identity fraud.
3) U.S. law enforcement agencies have observed that identity theft and immigration “go hand in hand.
4) Illegal aliens working with stolen identities and fraudulent documents transfer billions of dollars to foreign nations that would otherwise have been spent and invested in the United States. In October 2008, at a time the United States economy was reeling from an unprecedented financial crisis and a sharp drop in consumer spending, remittances to Mexico rose to $2.4 billion, a 13 percent jump from $2.2 billion in remittances in October 2007.
This blatant breach of our national laws MUST STOP! They are not "undocumented," they are illegal immigrants!
http://cis.org/IdentityTheft#14
9
This is what governance looks like to Trump and his 62,979,636 morally bankrupt boot-licking toadies.
Deport a worker, while the real criminals run the White House and the country into the ground.
If only Trump supporters knew how stupid they really are.
Of course, it's difficult to convince pompous know-nothing-know-it-alls of their own obdurate inanity.
Deport a worker, while the real criminals run the White House and the country into the ground.
If only Trump supporters knew how stupid they really are.
Of course, it's difficult to convince pompous know-nothing-know-it-alls of their own obdurate inanity.
4
This is despicable. She spent 6 months in jail/detention for her offense already -- was not her debt to society paid by that? It is an unconscionable misuse of my tax dollars to persecute this harmless person and transport her to another country. How many responsible, contributing members of the community will receive this barbaric treatment, using MY money? Our society will be the poorer, literally and figuratively.
4
I think lots of Americans commenting on this article don't know how to comprehend what they read. Many here are saying that Ms Aroyo did not pay taxes and took advantage of welfare. Do you realize she's being deported because she obtained and used a FAKE SSN, right? She obtained a FAKE SSN so she could WORK. She did pay taxes while employed. Now you all forgot to mention that although she did use fake ssn and paid taxes, she must have not get any REFUND for her taxes since it was a fake ssn. You see, the government accepts taxes paid for by fake ssn, but the refund never happens.
Another big issue in the US, based on many comments here is poor education, based on lack of reading comprehension skills.
Another big issue in the US, based on many comments here is poor education, based on lack of reading comprehension skills.
6
Trumpler is hate.
Out west, immigrants from Mexico and other parts of Latin America have long been part of the fabric of our society.
What a sad joke the Russian stooge installed in the WH is.
We must survive this aberration of our democratic republic.
Out west, immigrants from Mexico and other parts of Latin America have long been part of the fabric of our society.
What a sad joke the Russian stooge installed in the WH is.
We must survive this aberration of our democratic republic.
4
Why do people get so upset when you laws are actually enforced it this country now. It's because they are the criminals violating those laws. We have seen what happens in Phoenix when the sheriff did that. Obama sends the ACLU and Federal judges after the Sheriff. Now they have elected a sheriff that will not enforce the laws there. What and see how fast crimes climb there. This is a case like so many others here in this country now. Someone breaks the law for so long that we should excuse them?? That's the liberal mentality here and the biggest problem we have. Just look at the #1 criminal.....Hillary. How long has she got away with her crimes and Don't forget her Billy boy. But they are above the law....right? These people are very simply career criminals.....it's the way you can explain it. 20 years, 30 years.......there is not excuse.
We should have protest in the street yes! By all of those that did obey the laws and come here TOTALLY Legally. YES??
We should have protest in the street yes! By all of those that did obey the laws and come here TOTALLY Legally. YES??
4
She's a felon, spare me the tears. American felons don't get any special breaks because they have kids nor should they.
9
In 21 years of living here, why did she not take the steps to become legal?
http://www.wikihow.com/Become-a-US-Citizen
http://www.wikihow.com/Become-a-US-Citizen
10
We have limited resources, she is low hanging fruit used to pander to people who voted for Trump. These are resources that should be directed towards apprehending undocumented violent criminals. Guess that is too much work for immigration.
3
Over 10 million pieces of low hanging fruit.
Our resources should be used for our children, veterans, disabled and elderly.
Our resources should be used for our children, veterans, disabled and elderly.
7
Innocent family destroyed = big-win for Trump!
After all that's what Trump does. He's a misery making machine!
After all that's what Trump does. He's a misery making machine!
3
There are over 60,000 homeless people in NYC. How much space has NYT allocated to covering their plight compared to the issues around Trump's executive order on immigration???
I thought it was UNconstitutional to make an ex post facto law, or, in this specific case: to take a non-criminal act performed years ago, redefine it as a criminal act, and then punish that person for having done a criminal act said years ago.
2
"The reason she was arrested was not that she entered the United States illegally, a civil offense. It was because of her felony conviction for using a phony Social Security number, a common subterfuge by unauthorized immigrants looking to find work in the United States."
Is that all? Don't the officials who deported her know that it's ok to use fake Social Security numbers if your'e an unauthorized immigrant looking for work? Only the authorized immigrants are prohibited from using fake Social Security numbers. However, I do agree that it's a waste for resources to send her back. She'll cross again soon. She's just low-hanging fruit for bureaucrats.
Is that all? Don't the officials who deported her know that it's ok to use fake Social Security numbers if your'e an unauthorized immigrant looking for work? Only the authorized immigrants are prohibited from using fake Social Security numbers. However, I do agree that it's a waste for resources to send her back. She'll cross again soon. She's just low-hanging fruit for bureaucrats.
2
: Firstly, let me say, dispassionately, that Texas frightens me even though I once had family there. In any case, I caught your recent entry, and “cottoned” to your remark that she’s just “low hanging fruit for bureaucrats”. I assume that your comment was cynical; well, so be it, it struck my fancy so I quickly comment on yours.
1
She is being deported because she is unlawfully present in the United States. She could be fined, sentenced to prison prisoned and then deported,
8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper Entry by Alien
Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both
8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper Entry by Alien
Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both
Should we feel sorry for people who voted for Trump, but did not take his words seriously? As they say, be careful what you wish for. Who ever believes Americans will rush in to take field jobs, dishwashing jobs, cleaning jobs, etc., formerly held by the deported is living in a delusional paradise. Good luck with that.
5
Don't feel sorry for me. Do I agree with everything he says/does? No! But I'd rather have Trump than that baby killing murderer Hilary. I wonder about a persons sanity that would even CONSIDER voting for her. As for this woman, I do feel for her but she's the one that used a fake ID. Maybe when one of the men from these other countries rape or kidnap your wife, girlfriend or daughter you & the rest of the Hilary lovers will wake up and see what Mr. Trump is trying to do. All she wanted was the power. She didn't have helping the country on her mind. Stop complaining and just listen, and maybe you'll actually understand what the President is doing for our country. U Democrat's are too busy causing trouble to see whats really going on.
3
So I would ask Trump, about the comments he made "we'll let the the good ones back in". Sounds as if Ms. Rayos is a "Good One"--she was working to support her family and following the law by reporting to immigration officials. She did not commit identity theft the way many US citizens do by stealing money and benefits by using someone else's identity --she just wanted to work. I am not in favor of keeping criminal immigrants in the US but here is Trump and his supporters chance to show us how they will treat the "good ones"
2
The American immigration system really is not very hospitable and the people should be aware of this. Let's take the straightforward case of marriage to an American citizen. Even in that case, the process of getting residence status lasts the total of 2-3 years and costs anywhere between $3000-10,000. You go to intrusive interviews where the officer, for example, asks you to identify your parents in wedding photos to make sure that they were there, you receive mandatory vaccinations (even if healthcare in your country of origin is more comprehensive and accessible than in the US), you declare that you are not a "habitual drunkard" and your fingerprints are taken like ten times (fingerprints must be some strange fetish of American bureaucrats). Such scrutiny is not the norm in many other western countries. No wonder there's illegal immigration in the US. The country of immigrants has made immigration impossible.
2
And yet the US nationalizes more people each year (1 million+) than any other nation on the planet. And most of them are Hispanic. How did that happen if immigration was impossible?
3
Deporting her as they should. And all the rest, too.
10
Ethics, empathy, morality, and brains are missing in just under half of our citizens. Some are still fighting the civil war, because their ignorance is passed from generation to generation. it is a lot easier to blame somebody else- Jews, emigrants (legal and illegal) than to step up and do the right thing. This whole era is a result of fostered racism and dumbing down pursued by Republicans and alternative truth sites like Fox news, Limbaugh etc since the end of the Nixon era. listening to that stuff -even today- is chilling. What have we come to?
4
Melania lied too. But then rules just apply to the rest of us.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/report-melania-trump-worked-in-u...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/report-melania-trump-worked-in-u...
7
With the way things are, I'm sure her lawyers will keep this in the courts for technical reasons for at least another 2 decades and she can go on living in the US.
3
So she IS worse than Putin,..apparently a lot worse.
2
All you bleeding hearts if you have not been informed a Egyptian and a Iraqi was. Caught trying to cross in the US illegal. These cities that protect illegals are just inviting more to come over. Each Mayor and Governor allowing cities to do this should be held accountable. Instead of giving Fedral money to cities not upholding law build a detention center in these towns with Ice agents then take them directly from jail to detention. Using money meant for City usage
6
But not enough homeless shelters in most American cities.
Where do they house illegal aliens? Hotels?
Where do they house illegal aliens? Hotels?
1
Don't blame her; blame Congress. Our representatives, so afraid of rightwing backlash, have failed to enact any sort of immigration reform. As a result the lives of innocent people like Ms. Rayos are at the daily mercy of the impersonal bureaucracy. She's had no opportunity to become a "legitimate" resident. Stories like this make me ashamed to be an American citizen.
4
May God bless her and her family. I will pray for them and hopefully they will soon be reunited! Most humans will go anywhere and do anything to provide for their family. I know I would; would you?
3
So, if I mugged you and took all your money, It would be okay if I spent the money I took on my family? Nice to know.
3
It is interesting to me how many readers here 'admit' that what the woman did is a crime. But then they go on to say it's a 'victimless' crime and what a shame it is. Then change the law. But as the law stands now, this woman committed at least one (and probably two) criminal acts. There are no ifs, ands, or buts about it. She broke the law and must bear the consequences.
8
If only some of these commentators could be in her shoes... Very easy to kick someone when they are down.
3
Why wasn't the owner of golf land sun splash arrested!!?!?
9
Legal citizens in this country especially those born here to great grandparents who immigrated here commit far worse crimes and are excused yet this woman is being made an example by penalizing her with one of worse punishments to be inflicted on any mother. The same "concerned citizens"who are quick to defend "legal immigration only " ought to start cleaning up their own homes, backyards, blocks and communities of unlawful activities of their "legal" brethren first.
1
Well, Cook County in Illinois is emptying the jails so, I guess it's okay.
2
This, like the border patrol harassment of Muslims and others at Canadian crossings, is the beginning of the current administration's campaign of state-sponsored domestic terrorism. Expect it to worsen as they discover that nobody will lift a finger to stop it.
3
In reading many of these forceful, thoughtful comments, I'm not certain it's been clearly conveyed what it means when so many undocumented workers use "fake Social Security numbers." This is NOT identity theft. And while it is indeed fraudulent use of gov. docs, it is important to reiterate that most undocumented workers do so in order to work and that state and federal taxes are being withheld from their paychecks. Sra. de Rayos will never see the resulting, hard-earned benefits that so many of us will. She is directly contributing to US tax revenue; I cannot say the same for our president.
5
Says the person who never had their SS# stolen or used.
Try the many years it took for me to straighten out that IRS, banking and credit report mess.
Maybe we should all just use fake numbers from now on instead.
Try the many years it took for me to straighten out that IRS, banking and credit report mess.
Maybe we should all just use fake numbers from now on instead.
6
A classic "Catch 22". Because she was undocumented she needs to use someone else's ID to get work. Then she get arrested because she used the ID. Then she gets deported because she has been arrested. Good grief.
2
In a compassionate country, people understand there is a difference between the letter of the law, and the spirit of the law. This country seems to have lost compassion. This woman did not deserve this. These actions make me very, very sad. Once again, embarrassed for my country today.
3
I cannot wait for the demographic tsunami represented by this woman's citizen children to change the direction of this hate filled country. It will be here before you know it and these action won't be forgotten.
2
The Trump regime does not care a fig about decency and humanity. Undocumented immigrants will likely not be showing up for status reports and will be changing addresses and jobs. There is going to be an underground railroad in this country as despotism grows.
4
This is just the first of what will become thousands a week. Trump meet with law enforcement all week, to get them onside and enlist them for this despicable work.
Sessions' first utterances, after being sworn in, were about ridding America of all illegal immigrants (that were taking jobs away from Americans...another scare technique). Be prepared for mass round-ups that will make the travel ban look like a small thing.
Sessions' first utterances, after being sworn in, were about ridding America of all illegal immigrants (that were taking jobs away from Americans...another scare technique). Be prepared for mass round-ups that will make the travel ban look like a small thing.
6
Our justice department successfully indicted gangsters in tax evasion... here is an illegally immigrant caught in a similar crime (just a smaller scale) using a SSN that did not belong to her, but it's OK?
She should have been deported eight (8) plus years ago.
No "special" treatment for illegal immigrants - the law is the law in this country!
She should have been deported eight (8) plus years ago.
No "special" treatment for illegal immigrants - the law is the law in this country!
12
Actually you should thank her for paying money into the Social Security system that she won't collect.
1
Actually, it's the complete opposite. Al Capone (I assume that's who you're referring to) was a US citizen but didn't pay taxes. She was not a US citizen but paid taxes.
You can pretty much tell that to every tax payer born after 1980 as well.
1
I wonder if legal immigrants could sue as they are not being treated equal to illegal immigrants...
A lot of folks seem to thin law breakers should be placed ahead of those who respect and follow the law...
A lot of folks seem to thin law breakers should be placed ahead of those who respect and follow the law...
8
this is one of the most ridiculous decisions possible - amnesty to continue to reside and prosper with her two citizen sons and her citizen husband.
2
The article says her husband is undocumented.
5
Many of the 11 million illegal immigrants in the U.S. have forged documents of identity to be able to work and drive. Will the authorities build up the resources to arrest them all and deport or detain them, or only go after those already convicted of this offense?
3
Many commentators have opined that Guadalupe García de Rayos is guilty of identify theft because she used social security number. But a federal court has rule that illegal immigrants do not commit identify theft when the use a fake social security number only to gain employment. The felony she is guilty of is posing as a U.S. citizen and using a fake document to work illegally in the United States. Congress made this a felony to discourage illegal immigration.
7
Don't do the crime if you can't do the time, don't do it.
13
Splitting up families is unacceptable, no matter who you are. Trump has no heart, no soul, and shows no mercy toward our hard working neighbors.
4
Maybe just let everyone come in?
9
Regardless of how one feels about the particulars of this case and the issue in general, it is clear that immigrants at risk will stop showing up for their ICE meetings. This is in no one's interest.
3
Yay - breaking up families, destroying people's lives, dealing a death blow to confidence in the enforcement authorities - now that's what I call "making a difference" ! Lets make America grate.
2
Full disclosure. I am a naturalized American Citizen. I got my papers through work. I absolutely feel for this family. Mr Trump is not my choice for president. But I respect the fact that he is. I pray for him as often as I can to be a good president for all America. My part to citizenship was relatively easy but it still took 13 years. Therefore only an immigrant can appreciate the situation that this family is in and what this lady has gone through. Similarly all only a human can empathize and show compassion. I am amazed at how mean people can be when the pain is another's. If you are a Christian remember that the one of the reasons why Jesus will punish some Christians is that he was a stranger or in today's language an alien and they failed to welcome him. Then he said if you fail to do it for the least of these you failed to do it for me. This lady was a stranger in US not for crime but for a better future. No crime in that. My prayer is that God will intervene on her behalf and that of her family. My must let go of hatred and given to the love of God for all the people in the whole world for whom HE gave his son. It takes real strength to give dignity when you have the power to take it away. God bless America.
4
Using Fake ID after 9/11 is not only against the Law but foolish.
Even "illegals" have to realize their actions have consequences. Sorry, life is not fair.
Even "illegals" have to realize their actions have consequences. Sorry, life is not fair.
4
A married, working woman with children, arrested and now being deported. I feel "safer' already.
4
I find it interesting that on the front page of today's NYTimes (online), there's a story that interviews farm-owners in Central CA. They all rely on illegal immigrants to manage their farms, pick their crops, etc. They've hired them for many years, knowing that they're illegal.
Most of them voted for Trump, thinking: "We believe him when he says that he will make America great again, and bring back jobs. But we don't believe him when he threatens to deport all the illegal immigrants."
This week, Trump issued an Executive Order, and illegal immigrants are starting to be deported.
Now they're all worried: "We won't be able to run our farms. Our teachers will be out of work, because most of the students are children of our illegal workers. Our insurance company in town will lose 80% of its business. Our restaurants and supermarkets will lose most of their customers. Etc., etc."
Trump very explicily told the country what he was going to do. Did they really think that Trump do only the things that THEY wanted, but not do the things that would HURT THEM too? Were they that naive?
Apparently so. And apparently 47% of the country was that naive (and/or stupid) as well.
The rest of us kept telling them: "Don't vote for Trump. He's going to destroy our country." They didn't listen.
Are the rest of us supposed to feel sorry for them now?
I'm sorry, but I don't feel any sympathy for them. They made their choice; now they have to live with the consequences.
Most of them voted for Trump, thinking: "We believe him when he says that he will make America great again, and bring back jobs. But we don't believe him when he threatens to deport all the illegal immigrants."
This week, Trump issued an Executive Order, and illegal immigrants are starting to be deported.
Now they're all worried: "We won't be able to run our farms. Our teachers will be out of work, because most of the students are children of our illegal workers. Our insurance company in town will lose 80% of its business. Our restaurants and supermarkets will lose most of their customers. Etc., etc."
Trump very explicily told the country what he was going to do. Did they really think that Trump do only the things that THEY wanted, but not do the things that would HURT THEM too? Were they that naive?
Apparently so. And apparently 47% of the country was that naive (and/or stupid) as well.
The rest of us kept telling them: "Don't vote for Trump. He's going to destroy our country." They didn't listen.
Are the rest of us supposed to feel sorry for them now?
I'm sorry, but I don't feel any sympathy for them. They made their choice; now they have to live with the consequences.
3
Ship her off. She has 21 years to become legal and I'm tired, as a tax-payer, for supporting her.
9
You did not support her. She worked and paid taxes that she surely did not get refund since her social security was fake.
2
We’re living in a new era now, an era of war on immigrants,” Ms. Rayos’s lawyer, Ray A. Ybarra Maldonado, said Wednesday after leaving the building here that houses the federal immigration agency, known by its acronym, ICE.
What a bunch of bull!
There is no war on immigrants! If you have a valid visa, or are a green card older, you are LEGAL and you can stay here. If you don't have any legal residence papers, you are here ILLEGALLY and so you need to go back home and get the legal paperwork to stay here LEGALLY.
There nothing about war or difficult to understand!
My brother just received his green card and arrived in the US in December.
It only took him 10 years to get it. But during those 10 years, we did not have him come and live here ILLEGALLY. He just waited like everyone else.
What is a shame is that this process takes so long, that I can see getting upset over.
But to tell someone, you've been in this country since 2008 ILLEGALLY, and have used fake IDs and now its time to go home and clear things up, that's not difficult to understand.
What a bunch of bull!
There is no war on immigrants! If you have a valid visa, or are a green card older, you are LEGAL and you can stay here. If you don't have any legal residence papers, you are here ILLEGALLY and so you need to go back home and get the legal paperwork to stay here LEGALLY.
There nothing about war or difficult to understand!
My brother just received his green card and arrived in the US in December.
It only took him 10 years to get it. But during those 10 years, we did not have him come and live here ILLEGALLY. He just waited like everyone else.
What is a shame is that this process takes so long, that I can see getting upset over.
But to tell someone, you've been in this country since 2008 ILLEGALLY, and have used fake IDs and now its time to go home and clear things up, that's not difficult to understand.
9
Those fake Social Security numbers, with card included, with your real name in it, were sold for decades in the US and the government was taking the tax money sent by the undocumented workers. But they never got refunds, because the government knew perfectly the numbers were non existent. At least they were paying taxes. To the person that talks here about "ancestors in the second boat to Virginia", I ask: In which office of which government of which Nation did your ancestors get a visa to remain or even enter the territory of what is today the United States? Let's be clear, all this cruelty is just racism, because if all those immigrants were from Germany or Sweden, not people without a certificate of being of "pure Nordic race", they would have been given documents long ago. And to the self identified here as a descendant of a Mexican grandpa that "did all legally" and is revolted with all "those illegal immigrants": you are a candidate to be a "kapo" of a concentration camp. I have nothing against better controlling immigration, but all those human beings living here need to be given a broad amnesty before anything else is done.
3
People face deportation every day. It's not news.
Americans are deported from countries around the world every single day. This is what it means to have a border, and indeed to have a country.
Americans are deported from countries around the world every single day. This is what it means to have a border, and indeed to have a country.
15
"under an Arizona law authorizing sanctions against employers who knowingly hired undocumented immigrants."
And those sanctions against the employer, Golfland/Sunsplash, were what exactly?
And those sanctions against the employer, Golfland/Sunsplash, were what exactly?
19
Only 10,999,999 to go.
15
It seems like a white lie and victimless crime to me. May as well call it "identity gift". This woman was paying into the Social Security system lots of money (collectively it must be tens of billions of dollars) and that she will never be able to lay claim to. So all that money is just funding the SS payments that need to be made to people with bona fide numbers.
7
Really? A white lie and victimless crime? Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of immigrants who are trying to 'legally' enter this country but people like this woman's actions hurt them. And despite my paying into the social security system for almost 40 years now I'll NEVER see the amount of money i paid in paid back out to me in my retirement. Is that fair either?
5
If it was your SSN and you got dinged on your taxes because of income reported by an illegal how would that be?
I wouldn't volunteer my SSN. Would you?
I wouldn't volunteer my SSN. Would you?
6
You would not call it a victimless crime if it were your SSN and your credit report was damaged.
2
Shame on the United States for breaking up a family. The "crime" was victimless. Being in the USA for 21 years without any other incident she is a threat to no one. She has a husband and children. Does the trump administration have any sense of decency?
7
I did not catch that she was here, against the law for 21 years!
All the more reason to send her back to her country and she can try to obtain legal residence status like everyone else.
There are laws for a reason. if the laws are unjust, then there is a process to correct the laws.
But for 21 years she knew she was here ILLEGALLY, and she was teaching her child that laws can be broken without consequence.
Well her time is up, the law has caught up with here.
If she did not like the legal process here, she should not have smuggled herself into the country ILLEGALLY in the first place.
All the more reason to send her back to her country and she can try to obtain legal residence status like everyone else.
There are laws for a reason. if the laws are unjust, then there is a process to correct the laws.
But for 21 years she knew she was here ILLEGALLY, and she was teaching her child that laws can be broken without consequence.
Well her time is up, the law has caught up with here.
If she did not like the legal process here, she should not have smuggled herself into the country ILLEGALLY in the first place.
3
I am a Democrat who opposes Trump's travel ban. I also believe there's a big difference between legal immigrants and illegal immigrants (and that you certainly never reward the latter with a pathway to citizenship). The progressive lore of some of my fellow New Yorkers is that there are no borders and there are no countries. This is their basic argument. It creates an ideological chasm, as this article and its accompanying comments clearly show. Seeing how many defend Guadalupe García de Rayos, even after she used a fake U.S. Social Security card, just confirms which side of the chasm I will stand on.
17
hi mason.
i see a lot of space between "no borders" and "a pathway to citizenship".
like the Obama policy of turning a blind eye in these cases and letting her raise her US citizen children, without the benefits that citizen parents get.
do the gray areas - between residing and working, between working and voting - really have to be closed? is she taking a home or a job from an American?
as another commenter noted - even the US Supreme Court watered down the use of fake Social Security cards as a crime in 2009 in another immigration case.
find me the victim, REAL, not imagined or theoretical, and i might stand with you. but this just seems like a cruel punishment for at least 2 US citizens, her children. a punishment that you and i and everyone commenting here will have to pay for in some way.
i see a lot of space between "no borders" and "a pathway to citizenship".
like the Obama policy of turning a blind eye in these cases and letting her raise her US citizen children, without the benefits that citizen parents get.
do the gray areas - between residing and working, between working and voting - really have to be closed? is she taking a home or a job from an American?
as another commenter noted - even the US Supreme Court watered down the use of fake Social Security cards as a crime in 2009 in another immigration case.
find me the victim, REAL, not imagined or theoretical, and i might stand with you. but this just seems like a cruel punishment for at least 2 US citizens, her children. a punishment that you and i and everyone commenting here will have to pay for in some way.
1
Reality check think the writer is missing the point here. Amazing how carefully edited to suite there hidden agenda. Law states if you commit a crime in usa an not citzen you must be deported no if or butts. Half city of rochester ny would be deported if they deported all criminals who are here illegally. Exodus begins even for children of illegals they are just much half to abide to laws we citzens do. Noo exceptions no reason they dont know either .Its the responsibilty to apply to be citzen for illegals not to have government apply for them. Are we country with no borders now?
4
I fully agree.
Any other country would have deported her at the first sign of being here ILLEGALLY, and especially after using fake IDs.
The fact that she was allowed to stay is beyond me.
Any other country would have deported her at the first sign of being here ILLEGALLY, and especially after using fake IDs.
The fact that she was allowed to stay is beyond me.
4
We all know why they where allowed to stay the democrats need 17 million votes. Wont be first time these people choose to be illegals for many reasons no taxs ,compnys who hire them insted of citzens should be given million dallor fines
1
Is anyone concerned about the precident of being treated guilty based on presumption ALONE? On the abdication of the principle "innocent until proven guilty?"
". . . and even those who have NOT been charged but ARE BELIEVED TO HAVE COMMITTED “acts that constitute a chargeable criminal offense” — have become a priority for deportation."
(Emphasis mine)
Why aren't people up in arms about the denigration of this bedrock American principle- in the law itself no less? Even if it's applied towards "the least of these", I would hope LAWYERS, JUDGES, SENATORS and ANY CITIZEN, regardless of political party would fight to remove the idea of being guilty based on presumption.
It's plausible that actually having this written into the law(!) that belief of guilt, based on suspicion is enough, that a person doesn't have a right to be PROVEN guilty, makes it plausible that this same law will be applied towards other people within our country one day- even us.
". . . and even those who have NOT been charged but ARE BELIEVED TO HAVE COMMITTED “acts that constitute a chargeable criminal offense” — have become a priority for deportation."
(Emphasis mine)
Why aren't people up in arms about the denigration of this bedrock American principle- in the law itself no less? Even if it's applied towards "the least of these", I would hope LAWYERS, JUDGES, SENATORS and ANY CITIZEN, regardless of political party would fight to remove the idea of being guilty based on presumption.
It's plausible that actually having this written into the law(!) that belief of guilt, based on suspicion is enough, that a person doesn't have a right to be PROVEN guilty, makes it plausible that this same law will be applied towards other people within our country one day- even us.
2
In another in an endless stream of articles by the Times intended to evoke the passions of the uninformed, you have once again mistaken a simple example of justice being done for something newsworthy. The facts here, as reported by you, are that an undocumented immigrant with a criminal record who had been ordered deported by an immigration court is being deported. As much as your editors would like there to be a story here, there simply is none.
15
to think that this woman, at 14, had the strength and courage to say no to one kleptocracy (which is what Mexico was in the 1990's and in too many ways still is) and find a way out.
that she worked her teen years away (likely in low paid and at times grueling jobs) and had a family and built a life (without government handouts). and after all this she still has the strength and courage to face another kleptocracy at 35 (which this administration surely is).
and we choose to deport this strength and courage - instead of harnessing it.
i'll end this like the orange "leader". SAD!!!
so sad.
that she worked her teen years away (likely in low paid and at times grueling jobs) and had a family and built a life (without government handouts). and after all this she still has the strength and courage to face another kleptocracy at 35 (which this administration surely is).
and we choose to deport this strength and courage - instead of harnessing it.
i'll end this like the orange "leader". SAD!!!
so sad.
3
This is inhumane and disgraceful. She is the mother of teenage American children, honestly and voluntarily complying with requirements to check in. She is not a terrorist or an imminent threat to anyone. Meanwhile Ivanka has a problem with Nordstrom that needs Presidential attention, Melania is ensconced in Trump tower with high priced taxpayer funded security and the President is heading off for the weekend to play golf again all sponsored by taxpayer dollars. Had this been a wealthy person a hoard of lawyers would have gotten her a green card by now based on her need to care for her citizen children. What is this country coming to that it has lost its compassion, common sense and humanity. Where are the courageous Republicans to say" not in my name, no more" to a self dealing, authoritarian regime that discredits and threatens us all with its pervasive fear and loathing.
5
Here are the facts. Ms. Garcia de Rayos entered the United States illegally, has lived here illegally, has failed to pay taxes for the myriad public services and programs that has benefited from and she committed fraud against an actual American citizen. Ms. Garcia de Rayos needs to be deported from the United States. We have laws in this country. Wanting to enter our borders does not give you the right to skip millions of people who are waiting on a list and then defraud America. Go home!
14
On the tax point. She did pay into Social Security even though she will never collect it. She paid sales tax every time she bought something. She is probably a renter, so property tax would not apply to her. If it did apply, almost certainly she would have been paying it either with her mortgage or upon direct assessment by her local government. As for federal taxes, most likely her income would have qualified her for earned-income tax credits rather than tax payments. All in all, it seems pretty likely that, on net, she has been paying into the system.
2
And the proof that she did not pay taxes, federal, state and social security. Proof that she benefited from exorbitant freebie programs. Fact is, illegals DO pay taxes, don't use freebie programs to avoid being noticed, use their hard-earned money to contribute to the economy of their community by buying local and encourage their kids to better themselves at school because that is their only inheritance they can give them, a better life than they had. Most importantly, to love this country and be part of this American life.
She did pay taxes. She was paying taxes, which ironically, was her crime: paying in under a social security number that wasn't hers.
2
At one time I would say live and let live. But no more. I have family to look out for. Being a citizen means something. It doesn't mean that you can cross the border illegally and obtain the same rights as a United States citizen. As a black American I wonder how I would be treated if I cross the border into Mexico and used up their resources. Luis Videgaray said his country will spend about 50million to hire lawyers for migrant in the United States facing deportation. WHAT they're not legal citizens.
10
Obama had to choose: healthcare or immigration reform.
He chose healthcare.
Wish he would have done both.
He chose healthcare.
Wish he would have done both.
1
My great grandfather lied to immigration officials to get into America and raised a family on a farm in Iowa he bought and since then my family has been proud to call ourselves Americans. My father, mother, older brother and myself have all served in the military defending the rights of Americans. Since he was here illegally maybe my whole family should go back to Norway..... until that incredibly stupid racist gets impeached
16
She got what she had coming to her. She was an accomplice in identity theft. She probably wrecked havoc on the family of the legal holder of the social security number she used.
Then after she was caught and convicted, she didn't serve any jail time for her crime, like an American citizen would have. She was sentenced to deportation, and then that was stayed.
So she is a criminal who has so far got off scott free. But now it has caught up to her, so say bye bye.
This woman had been here illegally for 21 years, and there is no evidence she sought to get a visa, green card, or anything that would make her here legally. 21 years and no effort towards becoming an American citizen.
If she really wants to stay in America, the first step is to volunteer to serve a 5 year prison sentence for identity theft, make restitution to the harmed individual, and agree to have a permanent criminal record.
I would still probably kick her out, but she should at least make the effort.
Then after she was caught and convicted, she didn't serve any jail time for her crime, like an American citizen would have. She was sentenced to deportation, and then that was stayed.
So she is a criminal who has so far got off scott free. But now it has caught up to her, so say bye bye.
This woman had been here illegally for 21 years, and there is no evidence she sought to get a visa, green card, or anything that would make her here legally. 21 years and no effort towards becoming an American citizen.
If she really wants to stay in America, the first step is to volunteer to serve a 5 year prison sentence for identity theft, make restitution to the harmed individual, and agree to have a permanent criminal record.
I would still probably kick her out, but she should at least make the effort.
8
The article did not say she committed identity THEFT, it said she used a FAKE Social Security number.
2
She was caught using a fake social security number not someone else's social so there is a difference...
She actually did serve jail time, 6 months. And the raid was among other things identify theft, but it doesn't say that she used a stolen SSN, she simply used a FAKE number. Let's read the article before commenting on it.
This article provides a deeper insight into the plight of some people who have worked here a long time and yet are without citizenship. It makes the problem more complex; the stock hatred from Trump supporters is difficult to apply in cases like this, yet, clearly, Ms. Rayos has lived here as an undocumented person.
I think this penetrating article provides evidence that supports developing a real policy that is a constructive path forward for these people. George W. Bush advocated such a process. Instead of being hauled off by ICE, Ms. Rayos should have been led into a formal process whereby she could attain citizenship. If she contributes to our GDP, and has done so for two decades, then she is demonstrably a valuable person here.
The relationship between the U.S. and Mexico goes back a long way, like that between the U.S. and Canada. The U.S. government must take that history into account when developing an immigration policy with Mexico, and should look forward to a day when that wall becomes a vestige of a failed diplomacy and can come down.
I think this penetrating article provides evidence that supports developing a real policy that is a constructive path forward for these people. George W. Bush advocated such a process. Instead of being hauled off by ICE, Ms. Rayos should have been led into a formal process whereby she could attain citizenship. If she contributes to our GDP, and has done so for two decades, then she is demonstrably a valuable person here.
The relationship between the U.S. and Mexico goes back a long way, like that between the U.S. and Canada. The U.S. government must take that history into account when developing an immigration policy with Mexico, and should look forward to a day when that wall becomes a vestige of a failed diplomacy and can come down.
8
Why should she be placed ahead of those who follow the law to immigrate here?
You reward law breakers with benefits not available to those who are not law breakers.
You reward law breakers with benefits not available to those who are not law breakers.
4
Really, Charles? she is a convicted criminal, so we should REWARD her by giving her US citizenship for stealing someone else's Social Security number?
@Chris, I just knew that I'd get a comment like yours. Your are like the Trump people who misread what is printed, hence your attraction to the "alternative facts" that you read into factual material to satisfy your emotional needs. I stated that Ms. Rayos was here illegally but has contributed to the U.S. economy for 20 years, and brought the history of the relationship between the U.S. and Mexico into the conversation.
I've built the argument, and you are asking why she should be placed ahead of those who follow the law? I've made an argument, now read and understand it. If you disagree with it, then counter with an intelligent argument. It's what we elitists do.
I've built the argument, and you are asking why she should be placed ahead of those who follow the law? I've made an argument, now read and understand it. If you disagree with it, then counter with an intelligent argument. It's what we elitists do.
2
Illegal aliens protesting in our country is not prudent. This alone creates MORE resentment. As if they have Constitutional rights. Not citizens, period.
Try protesting in other countries that you are in illegally and see what happens, including Canada. Ridiculous behaviour.
Try protesting in other countries that you are in illegally and see what happens, including Canada. Ridiculous behaviour.
125
Actually all people present on American soil have some basic constitutional rights. You should look it up.
1
Ask owners of farms, Democrat and Republican alike, what they think of these new policies. The reason illegal immigrants feel like they have rights is because they feel as if they were implicitly invited. Agriculture, much of the hotel industry, and many other sectors depend upon their labor, and do not welcome these new policies.
I stand proudly on the other side of the ideological battle in the current phase of the culture wars in America. May I mention the German “Kulturkampf”? Another useful word which might be used! I have already reintroduced the word “anomie” earlier today. This concept has no meaningful translation into English. (Anonymous wouldn’t convey any meaning outside of the world of therapy and AA). Maybe, your point has legitimacy, but it also suggests a coldness which I see everywhere and which simply frightens me. We need warmth and gentleness, now more than ever. Legalism is something that makes me want to turn over and simply cry!
1
Dear Guadalupe Garcia de Rayos
This from the first line of this new article:
For eight years, Guadalupe García de Rayos had checked in at the federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement office here, a requirement since she was caught using a fake Social Security number during a raid in 2008 at a water park where she worked.
So let me get this straight,
You've been in this country since 2008 ILLEGALLY and you were caught using a fake social security number, and now people are surprised that you're being deported back to Mexico where you came from!
Give me a break!
Tell me, what other country would allow someone, who has broken at least 2 laws and could not get their legal residence status figured out in 9 years, stay any longer in their country?
I am more surprised that you've been allowed to stay in this country out of jail!
Go back to where you came from, and if you want to live in the US, you do so legally. Apply for a visa, apply for a Green Card, or simply stay in your own country.
This from the first line of this new article:
For eight years, Guadalupe García de Rayos had checked in at the federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement office here, a requirement since she was caught using a fake Social Security number during a raid in 2008 at a water park where she worked.
So let me get this straight,
You've been in this country since 2008 ILLEGALLY and you were caught using a fake social security number, and now people are surprised that you're being deported back to Mexico where you came from!
Give me a break!
Tell me, what other country would allow someone, who has broken at least 2 laws and could not get their legal residence status figured out in 9 years, stay any longer in their country?
I am more surprised that you've been allowed to stay in this country out of jail!
Go back to where you came from, and if you want to live in the US, you do so legally. Apply for a visa, apply for a Green Card, or simply stay in your own country.
41
Ma'am, The legal theory is that the punishment can't be disproportionate to the crime. Our constitution recognizes that legal theory. Secondly, our constitution applies to all the residents with the USA irrespective of their residency status or citizenship. Additionally, the legal doctrines across the world consider that there has to be a temporal relationship between the crime and punishment. Statute of limitations are a recognition of this theory. Finally, justice is based on injury to the affected as well as compassion for the accused and mitigating circumstances. Therefore, splitting a family in this case doesn't pass the test of any of the legal doctrines.
3
Nice, Mary. This is what Jesus would do surely. Hope you feel good about yourself in church this Sunday
1
Had you bothered to read the story you would see that she has been in the US for 21 years--not 8. She has two children who are US Citizens, and her crime is illegally obtaining a Social Security card so she could be a contributing member of society and support her family.
The anti-immigrant hatred knows no bounds and is antithetical to the teachings of almost every religion. I can't understand why you feel this woman is a threat to you. Pursuing a better life for your family should be the ideal of every person. That she had the misfortune to be born on the wrong side of the wall, is no reason to spew your bile and hatred at her.
The anti-immigrant hatred knows no bounds and is antithetical to the teachings of almost every religion. I can't understand why you feel this woman is a threat to you. Pursuing a better life for your family should be the ideal of every person. That she had the misfortune to be born on the wrong side of the wall, is no reason to spew your bile and hatred at her.
2
I find it highly ironic that the front page of today's newspaper has folks who voted for Trump on this very topic ... farmers ... are now petrified that Trump is actually taking action.
www.nytimes.com/2017/02/09/us/california-farmers-backed-trump-but-now-fear-losing-field-workers.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=second-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
www.nytimes.com/2017/02/09/us/california-farmers-backed-trump-but-now-fear-losing-field-workers.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=second-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
3
All those years she worked, with taxes being deducted from her paycheck, but never with the opportunity to collect social security ...surely something is wrong here. It is the laws that need to be changed to allow workers who have committed no violent crime against person or property to stay and contribute to the tax base, to fill job positions many others won't fill. The system is broken and needs to be fixed, but sending people like her back is not the fix.
7
Then anyone who commits a non violent crime should be rewarded with benefits.
She broke at least two laws and you say she should benefit from breaking the law?
Then non violent bank robbers should get to keep some of the cash....
She broke at least two laws and you say she should benefit from breaking the law?
Then non violent bank robbers should get to keep some of the cash....
2
The problem started the moment she came here illegally.
2
During George Bush's last term in office, he proposed and advocated in favor of immigration reform that would have given people like Ms Rayos legal status, very similar to DACA except that it would have been permanent, not just for two years. Not only did Senator Obama not support the effort, he voted against it.
Why weren't you advocating for immigration reform then, and writing to your Democrat elected officials demanding that they support Bush's initiative?
During Obama's first two years in office, he had a majority in Congress and no immigration bills were passed, much less signed into law.
Democrats were able to cram down ObamaCare with not a single Republican vote in 2010. It would not have been at all difficult for him to pass DACA: the overwhelming majority of the population was in favor, and McCain and the two maniac Senators, at least, would have crossed the aisle to vote for it. Most likely, there would have been overwhelming bipartisan support and it would have become law.
Why weren't you advocating for immigration reform then, and writing to your Democrat elected officials demanding that they pass DACA?
The President, instead of working with Congress to fix the law, decided that he would just pretend the law was what he wanted to be, exercise "prosecutorial discretion" then arbitrarily and illegally select a group who would be eligible for work permits. Why waste his bully pulpit on engaging the legislature when he had a pen and a cellphone.
Why weren't you advocating for immigration reform then, and writing to your Democrat elected officials demanding that they support Bush's initiative?
During Obama's first two years in office, he had a majority in Congress and no immigration bills were passed, much less signed into law.
Democrats were able to cram down ObamaCare with not a single Republican vote in 2010. It would not have been at all difficult for him to pass DACA: the overwhelming majority of the population was in favor, and McCain and the two maniac Senators, at least, would have crossed the aisle to vote for it. Most likely, there would have been overwhelming bipartisan support and it would have become law.
Why weren't you advocating for immigration reform then, and writing to your Democrat elected officials demanding that they pass DACA?
The President, instead of working with Congress to fix the law, decided that he would just pretend the law was what he wanted to be, exercise "prosecutorial discretion" then arbitrarily and illegally select a group who would be eligible for work permits. Why waste his bully pulpit on engaging the legislature when he had a pen and a cellphone.
1
If the Trump Administration wanted to demonstrate their "seriousness" about enforcing Immigration Law, they could have could have chosen someone involved in violent criminal activity... like the thousands that were deported by the Obama Administration (without any fanfare, by the way). Instead, they choose to "showcase" a working mother who's been "checking in" with Immigration every year since she was caught using a fake Social Security number. This "seriousness" on the part of the Trump Administration proves only one thing: that they do not care about each person's personal life, nor to any positive contributions they may have made to their communities. In the end, this will serve only to stimulate more opposition to the Trump Administration.
3
Obama claims that he has been diligently deporting those who are guilty of violent crimes, although this has been hampered by the sanctuary city/state policy of declining to notify federal officials that they are preparing to release a violent felon. Illegal aliens do not report to ICE every six months. They have to be detained by local officials and handed over to the federal government or they have to be tracked down and caught. The majority of violent illegal aliens get picked up when criminal activity brings them to the attention of law enforcement.
Ms Rayos was convicted in 2008. It took until 2013 for her case to make it to immigration court and for a final deportation order to be issued.
The logical and most cost effective next step would be to transport her to the border. How did it ever make sense to instead set her up on a monitoring program to check in once or twice a year with ICE? If she didn't show up, were they going to send investigators out to find her an bring her in for the interview and then send her home? What was the whole point of the program.
Had the nutso system not been devised, the ICE agents who were monitoring "the deported but not deported because they're criminals but not really bad criminals" could have been going after even more criminals.
Ms Rayos was convicted in 2008. It took until 2013 for her case to make it to immigration court and for a final deportation order to be issued.
The logical and most cost effective next step would be to transport her to the border. How did it ever make sense to instead set her up on a monitoring program to check in once or twice a year with ICE? If she didn't show up, were they going to send investigators out to find her an bring her in for the interview and then send her home? What was the whole point of the program.
Had the nutso system not been devised, the ICE agents who were monitoring "the deported but not deported because they're criminals but not really bad criminals" could have been going after even more criminals.
2
A note to some other commenters: Her "fraudulent use" of a Social Security card meant that she would pay Social Security taxes, but not be eligible for benefits. It is also likely that Federal and State income taxes would be withheld, but she would be unlikely to take the risk of applying for any refund.
I people to immigrate and work here legally, but we should stop pretending that illegal immigration is some type of plague rather than a net benefit to the rest of us.
I people to immigrate and work here legally, but we should stop pretending that illegal immigration is some type of plague rather than a net benefit to the rest of us.
13
Really? America is officially in it's Idiocracy. I have a social security number because I am a citizen. Immigrants have social security numbers because they became citizens. Illegal aliens STEAL social security numbers that belong to others.
Why are we mistreating our LEGAL immigrants by giving priority to criminal invaders? Deport them and then make them wait in line. It is appalling how many well meaning Americans are willing to support illegals.
Why are we mistreating our LEGAL immigrants by giving priority to criminal invaders? Deport them and then make them wait in line. It is appalling how many well meaning Americans are willing to support illegals.
4
When she completed her W-4, she listed eight exemptions so that no income tax would be withheld. People wo are in the country illegally have definitive knowledge of the law to know how to manipulate it to get maximum benefits at minimum tax.
If you look at the "bi-partisan" comprehensive immigration bill that was passed by the Democrat Senate, there was a provision for the illegal aliens who had been paying Social Security on a fraudulent number to get the credits moved to their newly issued legal SSN once they were granted amnesty.
The "undocumented immigrant" tag that the progressives have substituted for the correct legal term of illegal alien is misleading at best. The illegal aliens have lots of documentation if they think they can extract some benefit for the documents.
Legal immigrants are welcome and are a benefit to society whether or not the benefit is monetary. Illegal aliens eat away at a culture that values the rule of law and the equity that results. They are a financial drain on society and they also destroy ethical, moral and legal principles that unite citizens.
If you look at the "bi-partisan" comprehensive immigration bill that was passed by the Democrat Senate, there was a provision for the illegal aliens who had been paying Social Security on a fraudulent number to get the credits moved to their newly issued legal SSN once they were granted amnesty.
The "undocumented immigrant" tag that the progressives have substituted for the correct legal term of illegal alien is misleading at best. The illegal aliens have lots of documentation if they think they can extract some benefit for the documents.
Legal immigrants are welcome and are a benefit to society whether or not the benefit is monetary. Illegal aliens eat away at a culture that values the rule of law and the equity that results. They are a financial drain on society and they also destroy ethical, moral and legal principles that unite citizens.
4
I'm sure Bannon's boys think everyone in photo accompanying this article are terrorist bombers or Mexican Muslims...Those boys can hardly wait to get them guns, fire up the truck and ride around shoot in'.
HoooHaaa!
Sick not sad.
HoooHaaa!
Sick not sad.
4
Most reasonable people are asking themselves if the illegal aliens are living the American dream, collecting food stamps for their children despite having unreported, untaxed income too high for them to qualify if they were honest about it?
You may have noticed that nine of the protesters were arrested for breaking the law. There weren't any reports of deplorables riding around in their pickup trucks shooting up the neighborhood. You are confusing them with the thugs of inner cities in Democrat strongholds.
You may have noticed that nine of the protesters were arrested for breaking the law. There weren't any reports of deplorables riding around in their pickup trucks shooting up the neighborhood. You are confusing them with the thugs of inner cities in Democrat strongholds.
4
Put some tires on that car son. You're incorrect sir.
1
With Jeff Sessions coming on board as AG, if i were here illegally, I'd be self deporting VERY soon. This is just the beginning y'all.
15
Jm,
"This is just the beginning y'all."
beginning of what? Deportations have been going on for decades. Deportations under Obama were higher than any other president.
"This is just the beginning y'all."
beginning of what? Deportations have been going on for decades. Deportations under Obama were higher than any other president.
1
Thanks to President Obama's stepped up border enforcement and mass deportations of undocumented workers, since 2009 more Mexicans have returned home than have migrated to the US for the first time in decades. The result? We now have a serious shortage of farm workers.
As reported in today's Los Angeles Times, due to this farm labor shortage, US farms have cut back production of fruits and vegetables by 9.5%, costing growers $3.1 billion in lost revenue.
On a brighter note, this means that wages for farmhands are rising. Christopher Ranch in Gilroy, CA has announced it will pay its workers $15 an hour, four years ahead of California's legislated minimum wage increase. I guess this means all you immigrant haters will be heading out here to sign up for all these swell new jobs.
As reported in today's Los Angeles Times, due to this farm labor shortage, US farms have cut back production of fruits and vegetables by 9.5%, costing growers $3.1 billion in lost revenue.
On a brighter note, this means that wages for farmhands are rising. Christopher Ranch in Gilroy, CA has announced it will pay its workers $15 an hour, four years ahead of California's legislated minimum wage increase. I guess this means all you immigrant haters will be heading out here to sign up for all these swell new jobs.
186
Farm wages will continue to rise until farmers have the workers they need. Farm workers make up a tiny percent of the labor force, According to the Agriculture Department, the United States has only about 1.2 million farmer workers, and many of these work on their own farms. If farm wage rose so that farm workers earned $50,000 a year, there would be little impact on grocery prices. Most of what you pay at the supermarket are storage, processing, packaging, transportation and marketing costs, Besides, farmers can hire farm workers from other countries under the H-2A Temporary Agricultural Worker program. The drawback is that they have to provide H-2A workers humane working conditions.
3
Where do I apply?
And the regular agricultural visas can still be used.
Think of that!
A way to avoid the whole illegal migrant worker problem.
Our government made this work for farmers, maybe it needs to be expanded or ways to expedite are needed, but the mechanism exists and it is insulting and/or ignorant to say otherwise.
Think of that!
A way to avoid the whole illegal migrant worker problem.
Our government made this work for farmers, maybe it needs to be expanded or ways to expedite are needed, but the mechanism exists and it is insulting and/or ignorant to say otherwise.
2
Law and order. That's why I voted for Trump. Spare me the sob stories. Goodbye, Ms. Rayos.
34
There is no word to describe this other than cruel.
3
I can think of another word: Justified
4
Millions enter our country illegally and we reward them with citizenship?
Makes absolutely no sense at all.
Get rid of birth right citizenship as well. How hard is that to do? Special.
Makes absolutely no sense at all.
Get rid of birth right citizenship as well. How hard is that to do? Special.
39
Are you proposing to get rid of a law by which you, yourself, acquired citizenship?
1
It is hard to amend the constitution. But we should work on getting it done.
3
Get rid of birth right citizenship as well. How hard is that to do? Specia
May need a constitutional ammendment
May need a constitutional ammendment
I'm sure it's sad for the criminal's family when any criminal goes away to jail. But is that how we enforce the law? By looking to the family of the criminal?
No, of course not. The consistent application of the rule of law is one of reasons why our nation is 3X richer than Mexico on a per capita basis.
No, of course not. The consistent application of the rule of law is one of reasons why our nation is 3X richer than Mexico on a per capita basis.
26
Consistent application of the rule of law? Then why are none of the fat cat bankers who caused the financial crisis in jail? The rich get a pass, the poor do not.
2
That's right! I can't embezzle a company's pension fund, and then say, "but look I have a wife and two kids, so you can't send me away". Almost no one would be in jail.
3
President Trump was chosen in the primaries over other Republican candidates and then won the election largely over enforcing the law with immigrants living in this country illegally.
The use of language is extremely important when communicating information and ideas and it is very important to be precise and unambiguous. The term "undocumented immigrant" which is used by the NYT and others is not the correct term for Ms. Rayos and the 11 million others who are living in the country illegally. Since they are in the country illegally, illegal immigrant more correctly communicates their situation.
There are people living in the US who are here legally and yet lack documentation. To use "undocumented" with these people is a better use of the term.
A national newspaper should have as one of its goals to communicate news and other information as precisely and unambiguously as possible. For the NYT not to do so as in the case of using undocumented for illegal discredits those hard working NYT employees that want to publish the best newspaper in the world.
The use of language is extremely important when communicating information and ideas and it is very important to be precise and unambiguous. The term "undocumented immigrant" which is used by the NYT and others is not the correct term for Ms. Rayos and the 11 million others who are living in the country illegally. Since they are in the country illegally, illegal immigrant more correctly communicates their situation.
There are people living in the US who are here legally and yet lack documentation. To use "undocumented" with these people is a better use of the term.
A national newspaper should have as one of its goals to communicate news and other information as precisely and unambiguously as possible. For the NYT not to do so as in the case of using undocumented for illegal discredits those hard working NYT employees that want to publish the best newspaper in the world.
35
Illegal alien is the correct legal term. One is not an immigrant until one has the right to stay.
1
Republican President Ronald Regan signed the 1986 amnesty law, but the bipartisan bill was sponsored by Democrat Sen. Ted Kennedy. Kennedy predicted that the law would grant citizenship to no more than 1.3 million people. “We will secure the borders henceforth. We will never again bring forward another amnesty bill like this,” he promised. Of course, what we got was a tsunami of 11.5 million new illegal immigrants. This is why Democrat President Bill Clinton signed the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act, which call for the deportation of illegal immigrants. It does sometime cause family to be separated, but 35 percent of American children under 18 live in single-family household and an even smaller percent live with both biological parents. So it not as if only children of deportees experience family separation.
21
Now since false documentation is the crime of the century, I think to be fair we should consider dishing out 5 year prison terms for every teenager who uses a fake id to buy alcohol. After all it is a felony. Sorry suburban parents...guess you'll have to celebrate your son's/daughter's parole instead of college graduation!
15
Wrong analogy. They did not use someone else's ID without their consent. It's not considered identity theft to do so. But using ss number without consent is a very serious felony as tax fraud charges can destroy their life.
3
We also need to double down if people have been working for decades without filing an income tax return. She was only convicted of a single instance of fraudulently completing a government document. Liberals are anxious to see Trump's income tax returns. Let's see hers for the last 21 years. During her visits to ICE during the last three years, have they ever even inquired as to how she is supporting herself if she is not legally permitted to work?
2
She only did identity theft. Seriously, it's a felony.
36
Federal courts has ruled they cannot be charged with identify theft for using someone else's social security number if they had no intent to use the number in such as way as to damage the person the number actually belongs to. However, they are still guilty offing as a citizens and using a fake documented for the purpose of working illegally in the United States. These are felonies.
1
Re-read the article, Jack. Right near the top of the article it says that she used a FAKE Social Security number. It does not say that she used an actual number that belongs to someone else. So let's get this straight, she's been having SS withheld since she was a teenager and will never get credit for those contributions. Who knows, she could well have paid more into Social Security than Mr. Trump. Oh, wait, we can't check that because he's not disclosed his tax returns or his financial conflicts of interest.
Get them ALL out of here! Job-stealing, hospital-hogging, dragging down schools.
33
One day it's them the next it's you ... that's how it works throughout history.
4
Exactly. Get them ALL out. I just don't feel sorry for them at all. Come legally and I will give them a welcome hug.
1
Punishments are supposed to be proportionate to the crimes. Conceding that Ms. Rayos committed an offense, does anyone truly believe that the proper punishment is to banish her for life from her home and children? Apparently some of the commenters here, as well as those in the Trump administration, do - I just do not understand how anyone can be that cruel and merciless.
213
come on craig643,
She has been in the US illegally since 2008, she had plenty of time to figure out how to stay here legally.
She can go back home and apply like everyone else for a visa or green card.
And like everyone else she can wait until those are approved.
i see no reason why she should be given special consideration and not need to get a visa, or green card.
If she wants to live with her family, they can move with her to Mexico.
I don't see any hardship in that, and that's what most legal residents need to do in any other country.
She has been in the US illegally since 2008, she had plenty of time to figure out how to stay here legally.
She can go back home and apply like everyone else for a visa or green card.
And like everyone else she can wait until those are approved.
i see no reason why she should be given special consideration and not need to get a visa, or green card.
If she wants to live with her family, they can move with her to Mexico.
I don't see any hardship in that, and that's what most legal residents need to do in any other country.
3
She can take her family with her....
5
Her children can accompany her. What would you suggest should be her punishment since every day she remains here she is, again, breaking the law. The problem with all you good lefties is your refusal to call things what they are. If you wish unlimited amnesty for illegal immigrants, why won't you use that phrase?
2
I just spoke to the ICE office in Phoenix. The person who answered the phone said that Guadalupe Garcia de Rayos had been released.
9
We will see how this al plays out as it impacts local communities socially and economically. There may be no one left to pick those veggies you eat.
2
The US managed to survive about 200 years before the advent of the mass illegal alien invasion began in the 1960s. It'll do just fine once they are all mass deported.
10
yes, they used slaves to do their dirty work.
1
They didn't have slave picking fruit/nuts in CA "denise", and slavery ended in 1865 - over 150 years ago - LONG before the dems initiated their open borders agenda.
Just one more family ripped apart, but that means nothing to our fearful leader, he has vanquished the threat.
5
The real crime here was committed by Golfland Sunsplash and their parent company, investors, partners, etc. and every other fat cat that makes money from illegal labor. But instead of going after wealthy business owners the government goes after individual people that are only doing the same thing you would do in their shoes.
Punishment should fit the crime right? Deporting an immigrant and separating them from their family is a serious consequence. One that many would say is fitting because she did break the law after all. What would be the equivalent application of the law against the company that knowingly hires illegal labor? Because these are the real criminals here. Without them there would be no compelling reason for a Mexican to put their lives at risk to cross the border. So what do we do with these companies? We slap them with a meaningless fine and at the end it doesn't even put a dent in their bottom line.
But ya, lets spend billions of dollars going after 8 million individuals instead of going after the companies that hire them.
Punishment should fit the crime right? Deporting an immigrant and separating them from their family is a serious consequence. One that many would say is fitting because she did break the law after all. What would be the equivalent application of the law against the company that knowingly hires illegal labor? Because these are the real criminals here. Without them there would be no compelling reason for a Mexican to put their lives at risk to cross the border. So what do we do with these companies? We slap them with a meaningless fine and at the end it doesn't even put a dent in their bottom line.
But ya, lets spend billions of dollars going after 8 million individuals instead of going after the companies that hire them.
11
If you read the article...Goldland Sunsplash had no idea that the Social Security card that Ms. Rayos gave them was fake.
Likely, it was a real card that she stole from someone else. This is very common.
Short of mandatory E-Verify, there is no good way to catch such illegal aliens, who are stealing SS numbers and creating fake identities.
Likely, it was a real card that she stole from someone else. This is very common.
Short of mandatory E-Verify, there is no good way to catch such illegal aliens, who are stealing SS numbers and creating fake identities.
1
"using forged documents to obtain employment."
So what should the penalty be for employers who are conned by the use of fraudulent documents?
And, I hate to tell you, put Golfland Sunsplash's put put courses aren't quite the same with Trump's golf courses.
So what should the penalty be for employers who are conned by the use of fraudulent documents?
And, I hate to tell you, put Golfland Sunsplash's put put courses aren't quite the same with Trump's golf courses.
Most people do not realize that the workers who use false S.S. numbers pay social security taxes. But they probably will never receive money they retire. This helps the solvency of social security for everyone.
8
She also had two kids educated and assisted by the American taxpayer.
Did she or her husband drive - likely - did they have insurance? What of she had been in an accident and caused someone else to be injured and lose employment - could she pay support without insurances.
Did she ever use emergency room services?
The list could go on and on.
Did she or her husband drive - likely - did they have insurance? What of she had been in an accident and caused someone else to be injured and lose employment - could she pay support without insurances.
Did she ever use emergency room services?
The list could go on and on.
36
Most illegals do not use fake SS numbers; they simply work off the books paying nothing in taxes except when they buy something, yet they use all of the services/infrastructure like roads, garbage collection, firemen, schools, hospitals, etc. that they do not pay for.
12
Indeed -- perhaps you should know that answers to those questions before you imply anything further. Obviously, she paid taxes.
“The only crime my mother committed was to go to work to give a better life for her children,” said her daughter, Jacqueline. Except for illegally entering the country, harboring a fugitive, using false documents and falsifying tax returns.
47
To the NY Times: please avoid the Orwellian construction, "undocumented immigrant."
There is no such thing.
The correct term, codified in law and in the Constutution and universally applied and understood before the issue was hijacked by opportunistic politicians and greedy business owners, is "illegal alien."
There is no such thing.
The correct term, codified in law and in the Constutution and universally applied and understood before the issue was hijacked by opportunistic politicians and greedy business owners, is "illegal alien."
42
There is no such thing. I searched the Constitution for "illegal alien" and it doesn't appear in that document.
1
Her "American" children would not have the benefit of U.S. citizenship if she had not come here illegally. Whether she is causing harm or not, she broke the law. There is no such thing as a victimless crime and someone, something, somewhere is being effected by her presence, like all of her compatriots who are here legally and waiting for the process to be completed while she just jumps to the head of the line. It is time for all of them to go and we need to stop granting citizenship to the children of anyone that is here illegally.
28
Im sure youre irish catholic or know some coming from boston, and when waves of those immigrants came into the country us census takers recorded them as coloured. Thats how the us felt about them. Why then do you deem it acceptable to treat todays immigrants like your ancestors were treated? Her children are american, just like your immigrant ancestors children were american and you today are "american"
3
hey michael.
there's this thing called the U.S. Constitution. you might want to read it.
Section 1 in the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, states that "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."
her children were born here. they are American, not "American". no quotes needed ....except if you are casually telegraphing other opinions.
there's this thing called the U.S. Constitution. you might want to read it.
Section 1 in the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, states that "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."
her children were born here. they are American, not "American". no quotes needed ....except if you are casually telegraphing other opinions.
1
I am frightened for our country because of prejudice.
5
There is nothing prejudice in requiring people to follow the rules and obtain legal resident status. 1000s of people do it every day.
I don't see what's so difficult for Mexican people to understand this.
I don't see what's so difficult for Mexican people to understand this.
5
Mary Jones, the problem is that many of the immigrants are poor (after all, that's why they come here and so cannot afford the costs of getting a green card or visa.
2
The immigration policies (specifically concerning those coming in from Mexico / Latin America) going back several administrations have varied significantly but they all have been reactionary instead of looking at the root causes. Instead of blaming desperate Mexicans for violating our policies, we should focus our attention and our votes on the US foreign policy that has devastated this region for decades, through illegal and dangerous military action, to should-be-illegal NAFTA farm subsidies. Liberals and conservatives alike share the blame on this one, for putting large groups of non-Americans in a desperate situation. Our government and all of us are complicit in this situation and share responsibility for correcting it.
3
We should welcome hard working people like Guadalupe Garcia deRayos in our country, not punish them or break up their families. Her crime was trying to work to support her family and if we had better immigration laws there would have been no need to have done that. The dishonest donald will try to point toward the court decision that was made while President Obama was in office, but will hide the fact that President Obama in his wisdom and compassion stopped these abusive deportations of hard working people.
7
Why was she allowed to stay? Why was she not instantly escorted to the border? Why is her husband not shown the door, too?
EVERY illegal should be arrested and summarily evicted. No trial. No stay. No process. One question: "are you here legally"? And if the answer is no, onto the next bus, train, or plane back to your point of origin. And if that produces a "hardship", that's something you should have thought about before you committed the crime of entering the country illegally.
We foolishly tried the amnesty route in 1986 -- who said RWR never made mistakes? -- and it produced the entirely predictable result of a flood of new illegals counting on the "compassion" of the hard-leftists whose comments appear below.
Nope. No more. If you're here illegally, go home. If you've got American kids, bring them with you, as your country of origin is probably beautiful (they can return when their adults if they want to.) Just leave. If you want to return, apply the old fashion way -- you know, obeying the law -- and if you have something of value to offer and won't cost the taxpayers any money, we might consider it.
Immigration policy should be simple: all illegals must go home and we only admit people with talents which would benefit the country. Akin to Canada, Australia -- heck, even Mexico -- you only get to come and live here if you prove you will put in more than you take out.
Oh, and now that we know there are illegals at that church, the INS should pay it a visit.
EVERY illegal should be arrested and summarily evicted. No trial. No stay. No process. One question: "are you here legally"? And if the answer is no, onto the next bus, train, or plane back to your point of origin. And if that produces a "hardship", that's something you should have thought about before you committed the crime of entering the country illegally.
We foolishly tried the amnesty route in 1986 -- who said RWR never made mistakes? -- and it produced the entirely predictable result of a flood of new illegals counting on the "compassion" of the hard-leftists whose comments appear below.
Nope. No more. If you're here illegally, go home. If you've got American kids, bring them with you, as your country of origin is probably beautiful (they can return when their adults if they want to.) Just leave. If you want to return, apply the old fashion way -- you know, obeying the law -- and if you have something of value to offer and won't cost the taxpayers any money, we might consider it.
Immigration policy should be simple: all illegals must go home and we only admit people with talents which would benefit the country. Akin to Canada, Australia -- heck, even Mexico -- you only get to come and live here if you prove you will put in more than you take out.
Oh, and now that we know there are illegals at that church, the INS should pay it a visit.
36
It is human nature to scapegoat the weak and vulnerable and those excluded from mainstream society. It actually makes us feel righteous as we transfer our shadow side onto the scapegoats and then send them away. People who find comfort and self-righteousness in the strict legalities of the deportation of illegal immigrants simply have never been on the receiving end of America's economic colonialism and it's forcible extraction of wealth and resources from beyond its borders to create the illusion of peace and prosperity at home. Immigrants always come to the homeland along with the extracted wealth, and America First patriotic fervor and might will never make it right. America is already well down the same road toward ultimate collapse as all the empires that have gone before it. Our only hope is to somehow stop denying our willing complicity in the present day immigration problems and begin working to rebuild strong nation state partners who can act in their own best interests instead of our own.
1
Sorry, I've been on the other end, waiting to get a green card and finally obtaining legal citizenship.
It is a long hard wait, I was separated from my loved ones for a long time before i was allowed to enter the US legally.
I see no reason why people from Mexico, or any other country should be allowed to short circuit the normal legal process.
No other country on earth would allow someone to live and work in their country for 9 years illegally. You would be sent back to your home country and asked to apply for a legal visa or residency status.
I don't see what's sort hard about that
It is a long hard wait, I was separated from my loved ones for a long time before i was allowed to enter the US legally.
I see no reason why people from Mexico, or any other country should be allowed to short circuit the normal legal process.
No other country on earth would allow someone to live and work in their country for 9 years illegally. You would be sent back to your home country and asked to apply for a legal visa or residency status.
I don't see what's sort hard about that
5
and so it begins. Remember for trumpists, the cruelty is a feature, not a bug.
5
Calgary? In Alberta, Canada? The Canadian immigration system can be very efficient in handling these cases. She would have been escorted out of Canada long ago for pulling that sort of thing.
2
Since 2008,after spending time in jail for using a fraudulent social security card,has Ms. Rayos been paying taxes under the aegis of this same card and if not on want info is the IRS collecting taxes?Does Ms.Rayos get a refund if deported or are her taxes paid considered "a charge" by the IRS for being here illegally?Ms. Rayos had been checking in regularly with ICE,surely they knew she was paying her taxes..did they issue some sort of "alternative"document to enable the IRS to collect taxes??Explain please,am very confused
3
Most illegal immigrants pay no federal taxes because they don't earn enough to owe taxes. Most households headed by illegal immigrants get federal and state benefits. Many who don't file taxes uses their fake social security numbers to draw unearned tax credits. Most illegal immigrants pay socials security and Medicare taxes but will not be able to draw social security benefits or use Medicare. This means we are headed for a massive welfare and humanitarian crisis when they grow and sick. It's one of the man reasons we need to deport illegal immigrants.
13
The Earnings Suspense File - where payroll contributions that cannot be credited with a proper SSN go - is somewhere around $1.3 trillion. Undocumented workers contribute over $10 billion to the SS fund each year.
Net undocumented migration from Mexico is negative, but I do know how to reverse that and bring back the GREAT old days of massive illegal immigration: end NAFTA and choke off all those jobs in Mexico. The Trump people can't even play checkers let alone chess.
4
It's not just Mexicans anymore coming over the border.
9
Oh my god ... our government is enforcing our immigration laws! They are executing a lawful order of deportation finalized three years ago - the validity of which is nowhere impugned. I can't believe the nerve of those ICE agents.
38
Why is anyone on here worried about what immigrants are doing? I don't care who is undocumented or not. What I care about is that criminal and scammer sitting in the White House violating all of our rights. If you got time to spew xenophobic racism in the NYT comment section, you got time to demand that your congresspeople hold the President accountable.
8
"Violating rights"?! You mean, enforcing our laws! There, I fixed it for you.
18
When did targeting Muslims with a travel ban become the law? Also, when is lying about terrorist attacks "enforcing our laws?" That Trump Kool-Aid must be strong.
1
Emma Lazarus - rolling over in her grave.
5
Who cares? She was a left wing poet. She did not build the Statue of Liberty! she was not an elected US official!
1
From NYTimes, May 4, 2009:
WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court on Monday rejected a favorite tool of prosecutors in immigration cases, ruling unanimously that a federal identity-theft law may not be used against many illegal workers who used false Social Security numbers to get jobs.
The question in the case was whether workers who use fake identification numbers to commit some other crimes must know they belong to a real person to be subject to a two-year sentence extension for “aggravated identity theft.”
The answer, the Supreme Court said, is yes.
Prosecutors had used the threat of that punishment to persuade illegal workers to plead guilty to lesser charges of document fraud.
“The court’s ruling preserves basic ideals of fairness for some of our society’s most vulnerable workers,” said Chuck Roth, litigation director at the National Immigrant Justice Center in Chicago. “An immigrant who uses a false Social Security number to get a job doesn’t intend to harm anyone, and it makes no sense to spend our tax dollars to imprison them for two years.”
WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court on Monday rejected a favorite tool of prosecutors in immigration cases, ruling unanimously that a federal identity-theft law may not be used against many illegal workers who used false Social Security numbers to get jobs.
The question in the case was whether workers who use fake identification numbers to commit some other crimes must know they belong to a real person to be subject to a two-year sentence extension for “aggravated identity theft.”
The answer, the Supreme Court said, is yes.
Prosecutors had used the threat of that punishment to persuade illegal workers to plead guilty to lesser charges of document fraud.
“The court’s ruling preserves basic ideals of fairness for some of our society’s most vulnerable workers,” said Chuck Roth, litigation director at the National Immigrant Justice Center in Chicago. “An immigrant who uses a false Social Security number to get a job doesn’t intend to harm anyone, and it makes no sense to spend our tax dollars to imprison them for two years.”
6
Wrong. The court ruled they could not be charged with identify theft. They are sill guilty of posing as U.S. citizens and using fake documents in order to work illegally in the United States. The ruling doesn't apply to the charges in the Arizona case.
15
And thank god, under President Trump, once we seat Justice Gorsuch and soon, a replacement for the evil RGB, we can overturn that disastrous ruling and deport every single illegal alien.
1
What about that NYT news article is "wrong"?
2
Quote: “The only crime my mother committed was to go to work to give a better life for her children,” ... Actually no. The first crime your mom committed was to sneak through the border illegally at 14. Her second crime was to get fake paperwork. Her third one was to work without authorization. She is a three strikes criminal. I am an immigrant from Mexico too, but I played by the rules including paying 10 times a much tuition fees for college. Your mother knew she was breaking the law when she crossed, your mom is paying the consequences of her actions. Sorry. Don't blame immigration enforcement. Blame your mom. Disclosure... I am not pro Trump. I am a Democrat that donated to Sanders campaign.
33
During the campaign, during an interview with Sean Hannity if I recall correctly, Trump said his policies would be such that they would not be breaking up families. So add this to the exceptionally long list of campaign trail lies.
6
For the commenters who have deluded themselves into believing this is justice: When "They" come for you, there will be no one left to speak for you. We are now a society that takes mothers from children! A wife from her husband! I dread, with all my being, what will come next.
2
Okay, hollier than thou people. The truth is that the employers of these people knew they were all illegal and probably helped them with the fake ss#'s. Why? They did this for many reasons-- cheap labor #1 and a labor shortage which fueled by the rapid economic expansion of the 1970s. I lived in LA and beverly Hills during the 70s and all the labor was illegal. The people mowing the lawns, doing childcare, building homes, working in restaurants,in agriculture on and on. We are not taliking about a few people. We are talking about all the labor. That's right everyone who lived in California-- everyone was complicit. Let me repeat-- everyone was complicit. Everyone knew they were using illegal labor. If you lived in a building or house, if you had a nanny, if you had a handyman, if you owned a factory, if you worked in agriculture. We just took it in stride as part of the way things worked. I'm sure it was the same in other states. Many of these people have Amnesty granted by Reagan. Reagan granted the largest number of Illegal immigrants ever with his Amnesty decree. The number is in the millions! he understood that these were hard working people who had helped to create American prosperity. We still need these people to grow our economy. They don't take jobs. Their labor has helped to create growth and higher standards of living. These are facts and not alternative facts. I guess we can shelve the American dream of prosperity for now.
8
Can we please deport Trump instead?
9
An article of faith of the right is that immigrants pay no taxes but demand government services. Ms. Rayos's crime was to do the opposite: pay the tax but insure that she could never benefit.
6
When you combine harsher members against illegal immigrants and proposals to restrict legal immigration and build the border wall, it becomes clear the xenophobia that drove Trump's presidential campaign is now a centerpiece of his administration. Outsiders are the problem, so keep them out and show the, the door. It won't do anything to solve problems of drugs, crime, and terrorism, but as long as it keeps Mr. Trump's core supporters happy, that's enough.
6
A law is a law until it is changed by due process. Give this issue some time and it will be changed.
1
The Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act, which President Bill Clinton signed into law in 1996. This act, which passed with board bipartisan support in both houses, calls for the deportation of foreign nationals unlawfully present in the United States. This is the law that Trump has ordered ICE to enforce.
1
I have had my social security number stolen twice; each time I have had to spend years trying to correct the damage from the crooks. The police caught them, but did not file felony charges- I was willing to travel to testify against the crooks. My co-worker's mother had her social security number stolen, her bank account was drained by the IRS, as the thief claimed tax refunds using her number. Again, the police did not prosecute the full extant. If you steal another person's social security number, or driver's license you should be deported.
30
I'm about as liberal a person as you could imagine, but I'm tired of hearing these SOB stories about illegal immigrants. Go ask Canada, or Switzerland, or India, or China, or any other country on earth what they do with people that are in their country illegally. She can apply to come into this country like the millions of other people waiting in line for visas.
If this was a male who was here illegally, would we have the same amount of sympathy? Why the double standard? So what she has kids. They are welcome to go live with her in Mexico, and then they can come back to the US whenever they want since they are US citizens.
I'm a second generation immigrant myself. Now, I would love to have all my cousins, and aunts and uncles to come here, but I know there is a process they have to go through to get visas and come here legally.
Its a slap in my relatives faces that Ms. Rayos has been here for so long without any consequences. The nytimes should do a story of all the millions and millions of people that apply for visas every year to come to the US and are denied. How is it fair to them when they see cases like Ms. Rayos?
If this was a male who was here illegally, would we have the same amount of sympathy? Why the double standard? So what she has kids. They are welcome to go live with her in Mexico, and then they can come back to the US whenever they want since they are US citizens.
I'm a second generation immigrant myself. Now, I would love to have all my cousins, and aunts and uncles to come here, but I know there is a process they have to go through to get visas and come here legally.
Its a slap in my relatives faces that Ms. Rayos has been here for so long without any consequences. The nytimes should do a story of all the millions and millions of people that apply for visas every year to come to the US and are denied. How is it fair to them when they see cases like Ms. Rayos?
38
I remember, someone was using my social security number. I had to spent two years, in proving the fraud some illegals were committing on my number.
Now, I know people like here are responsible for those thefts.
Now, I know people like here are responsible for those thefts.
24
I see the visa/immigration system from an up close and personal perspective. Worldwide, on a daily basis, thousands of people apply to visit or work in the US. Those with USCIS approved petitions apply for immigrant visas, a wholly separate category. Take an early morning stroll past any US Embassy or Consulate anywhere in the world and you will see a long line of people wanting to come to this country. At no other diplomatic facility will you see this. The visa process is costly and somewhat complex. In most cases a consular officer conducts an interview to be sure the purpose of travel is legitimate. Applicant biometrics are run against several data bases in an effort to identify terrorists, criminals, and prior immigration violators. In short, there is valid rhyme and reason to this process. Those who willfully circumvent it in order to facilitate financial gain do not deserve the consideration given to those who follow the law, and it is vital that sovereign countries know who is crossing its borders. Giving birth on US soil may bestow citizenship on children, but does not give an adult's illegal presence legitimacy. "Tearing families apart" is not a reason to condone breaking the law. If there is blame to be assigned, it belongs to the adults who made a conscious decision not to resect our law.
22
I suppose the bitterness of the election has hardened my heart and made me cold. I don't really have anymore sympathy for illegal immigrants. Millions of Europeans came here from countries that were far worse off than Mexico, in cold, wet boats teeming with diseases, and they still had to wait in line. Thousands of of people from Iraq and Syria have been displaced by the wars, and many of them have been waiting patiently for years to come to this country. Many of those people lack marketable skills and will need simple, low-paying work while they settle themselves into their new country. How are they supposed to do that and assimilate when all the jobs have been taken by illegal immigrants?
30
I'm a legal immigrant from one of those European countries and the process took a decade and thousands of dollars. I was separated from my parents from the age of 1 until 11. I have nothing but sympathy for this woman.
Becoming a permanent resident or citizen is not just waiting in line. For a lot of those who come here for economic reasons, it's just not feasible. If you think it was OK for Europeans to come to U.S. to seek opportunities, you must understand why she came here. And let's not forget, Arizona was Mexico before it was U.S.
Becoming a permanent resident or citizen is not just waiting in line. For a lot of those who come here for economic reasons, it's just not feasible. If you think it was OK for Europeans to come to U.S. to seek opportunities, you must understand why she came here. And let's not forget, Arizona was Mexico before it was U.S.
"and sneaked across the border into Nogales, Ariz., ... she was caught using a fake Social Security number during a raid in 2008 ... a judge issued a deportation order against her in 2013."
No sympathy for the person who didn't get that job because and illegal would do it for less? No sympathy for the victim of identity theft? No concerns about refusing to follow a court order? No clue why Trump won?
No sympathy for the person who didn't get that job because and illegal would do it for less? No sympathy for the victim of identity theft? No concerns about refusing to follow a court order? No clue why Trump won?
35
It's very simple. The woman committed a crime by entering the U.S. illegally. The law states she should be deported. Evidently, the NY Times sanctions, and encourages criminal behavior.
32
To those who support illegal aliens in our country, I suggest that they go and try and live and work illegally in Mexico or any other country and see what results.
32
Even though I do not like to be called that, I do have some liberal tendencies and I am all up for live and let live. But as a legal immigrant, I really find it hard to accept the arguments that an illegal immigrant should be condoned? If I am a law enforcing officer who has to abide by the strict rule of law, then you are making my job incredibly difficult with your vague arguments. When I was in the US, I worked hard, paid my taxes, knew when my visa expired and left the country in a legal manner? How hard is that? I really have sympathy for those who have suffered in their own countries and have been persecuted. They can/should be allowed. But for others hiding behind this pretext, no sympathy. This is why Trump came to power because the liberal left never even wanted to discuss this issue and force their own opinions of "yes no man is illegal" on everyone. You are making it incredibly hard for the law-enforcement agencies, for the normal hard-working americans. Then this argument about economically integrated, so what? You cannot bend the law as it suits you. That is why it is a LAW.
34
I see too many people whose hearts seem to have rung dry getting multiple recommendations. If, I am right in this observation, then it seems likely that the “Culture War”, in its current incarnation, will deepen, and might only end in polarizing the US even further. I am reminded of the famous piece of Émile Durkheim called “Anomie et Suicide”. He was a famous nineteenth century French Sociologist. Loss of identity and general alienation is out there in America.” Anomie”, a word not used yet in the current debates, is, once again, a fact of life. Lonely people often commit suicide. So, then, yet another “scary” scenario needs further exploration.
2
I am thinking the only solution to protect ourselves from these multiple bullies and sociopaths posting her and recommending heartless and cruel posts is that the Blue States need to leave and form our own federation. Let the red states deal with the world without our tax dollars, our ports and our compassion. They will look like Ethiopia in five years.
1
I wholeheartedly agree with you, Nancy, except I am on the other side. Let the blue states try to feed themselves without the land mass of the red states, etc.
We are too far apart now to ever agree, and I think each side would be happy to be rid of the other. Let's divorce, but visit each other once in awhile if families choose different sides.
We are too far apart now to ever agree, and I think each side would be happy to be rid of the other. Let's divorce, but visit each other once in awhile if families choose different sides.
Many, many farmers live in the blue states, and many countries import food. I would be thrilled if we never had to listen to a Bible thumper who wants tax cuts for the rich and no food for the poor lecture me about being Christian.
And we will take all of the few educated people from the red states and the people of color, while shipping you our rural toothless lazy welfare loving white trash.
Sounds good to me!
And we will take all of the few educated people from the red states and the people of color, while shipping you our rural toothless lazy welfare loving white trash.
Sounds good to me!
She is a problem. keep applauding until they find a reason to come for you.
4
We are all global citizens and part of the human race.
No person should be banished to a life of poverty, crime or destruction just because they were born on the other side of an arbitrary piece of paper ( map ) , just like no person should be elevated at birth to be a monarch. ( just because their ancestors conquered another set of peoples long ago )
We are all born equal with the same red blood pumping through are veins.
No person should be banished to a life of poverty, crime or destruction just because they were born on the other side of an arbitrary piece of paper ( map ) , just like no person should be elevated at birth to be a monarch. ( just because their ancestors conquered another set of peoples long ago )
We are all born equal with the same red blood pumping through are veins.
4
There are no borders, no nations, and no sovereignty. I get it.
And yet I find that I prefer living under American laws, customs and mores. I don't want to live under those of another nation. If I change my mind though I will ask permission before I enter another nation. And it will be their right to say no.
We are all indeed born equal but that doesn't give me the right to enter your home without asking permission first.
We are all indeed born equal but that doesn't give me the right to enter your home without asking permission first.
This really rich. A con man being so self righteous about the law.
10
There was a bipartisan agreement which addressed undocumented individuals, giving them a path to citizenship which the lazy obstructionist Congress refused to vote on.
So, here we are again: harming those who work hard for a better life.
Isn't that what America is supposed to stand for?
So, here we are again: harming those who work hard for a better life.
Isn't that what America is supposed to stand for?
10
Illegal immigrants aren’t doing America any favors. We don’t need them. We can get all the legal immigrants we need by increasing legal immigration quotas. Millions are waiting in line. Legal immigration produces a highly diverse stream of immigrants who come speaking a multitude of languages from a multitude of countries and cultures. Their tremendous diversity encourages them to assimilate and acculturate into American society rather than coalescing in racial and ethnic enclaves. They also tend to possess the skills and education required to flourish in U.S. society. Illegal immigration produces a non-diverse, low-skilled and poorly educated stream of migrants who lack the skills and education required to assimilate, acculturate and flourish in U.S. society. Most take “starter jobs” that Americans teenagers once performed.
28
Now the Trump administration has begun to "disappear" people, just like 2 bit Latin American dictators have done over the years. This story deserves more exposure than it has received.
9
The Trump administration hasn't "disappeared" anyone.
The 43 people picked up by police and drug dealers in Mexico are "disappeared". Ms. Rayos can be found. Those 43 people will never be found.
The 43 people picked up by police and drug dealers in Mexico are "disappeared". Ms. Rayos can be found. Those 43 people will never be found.
4
Part of me sympathizes with this woman. But she is here illegally and she did use forged documentation to get a job. She's not unaware of her status even though she hasn't seen Mexico for 21 years. She didn't come here as a baby or a very young child who knew nothing about borders or immigration. She was 14 years old and had to know something. I'd have more sympathy for her if she was here with the proper documents and been arrested for no reason or if she hadn't used a fake Social Security number to get a job. The other party at fault is her employer. Employers who hire undocumented aliens ought to be penalized as well. The fines collected can be used to update the systems that keep track of legitimate social security numbers and who they belong to. It shouldn't be so easy to hire an undocumented alien in a first world country.
While I feel for her, there are others out there, refugees, and legal immigrants, the former who have gone through an agonizing wait to get into America. They went through an extensive vetting process, lost everything they owned, and have to start all over in a new country. Some of them will never be able to return to their native countries. They waited. She didn't and she doesn't seem to have been persecuted while living in Mexico.
While I feel for her, there are others out there, refugees, and legal immigrants, the former who have gone through an agonizing wait to get into America. They went through an extensive vetting process, lost everything they owned, and have to start all over in a new country. Some of them will never be able to return to their native countries. They waited. She didn't and she doesn't seem to have been persecuted while living in Mexico.
14
I am a Liberal and not a Trump supporter! Using a fake or someone else's Social Security numbers is a felony! It also deprives legal US citizens of summer jobs we all had growing up and after school. It holds down living wages for US citizens.
My daughter who's ancestors came on the second boat into Jamestown, Va in 1622, applied at a local water park when she was 15/ 16 years old. She did not get the job. She could not find a job until she was almost 18 years old. I worked from the time I was 12, cutting grass for old ladies in the neighborhood; then working in a diner, cading at a country club, working at the pro shop of the country club, then working in a grocery store. All while in high school. Today an American teen can not get these jobs. Illegals get these jobs.
Then illegals are building my daughters high school for Turner Constuction. Who time and time again has been found to use Subs who use illegals. Their are protesters in front. The quality of the masonry work is horrible.
I have a MS in Construction Engineering. When I came to Atlanta in 1983 a union Carpenter made 15 hr with benefits. Today 34 years later illegals are hired for less than that. You wonder why people are mad. 40% of my child's school is the chilldren of illegals getting free lunch. The other 40% is blacks who are living in section 8 and getting free lunch. The rest are white and Asian supporting the rest and hiding from the gangs.
My daughter who's ancestors came on the second boat into Jamestown, Va in 1622, applied at a local water park when she was 15/ 16 years old. She did not get the job. She could not find a job until she was almost 18 years old. I worked from the time I was 12, cutting grass for old ladies in the neighborhood; then working in a diner, cading at a country club, working at the pro shop of the country club, then working in a grocery store. All while in high school. Today an American teen can not get these jobs. Illegals get these jobs.
Then illegals are building my daughters high school for Turner Constuction. Who time and time again has been found to use Subs who use illegals. Their are protesters in front. The quality of the masonry work is horrible.
I have a MS in Construction Engineering. When I came to Atlanta in 1983 a union Carpenter made 15 hr with benefits. Today 34 years later illegals are hired for less than that. You wonder why people are mad. 40% of my child's school is the chilldren of illegals getting free lunch. The other 40% is blacks who are living in section 8 and getting free lunch. The rest are white and Asian supporting the rest and hiding from the gangs.
34
If you are so certain there are illegal immigrants working, especially on taxpayer funded projects, in your area, why have you not reported this to ICE?
2
Thanks to Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III, our new AG, we will see cases like this explode in number. The Dark Times are here and we must resist and persist.
5
So, here we have an illegal alien who has entered into the U.S. illegally and who has remained here illegally and who has engaged in identity fraud/theft and the government is now moving to deport her. I do not see any problem here other than that it should have been done years ago.
31
While I am sympathetic to her plight, this woman has committed identity theft. I have spent a great deal of time professionally helping deal with the often devastating effects of having your identity stolen. Not only do the IRS and State authorities go after you for unpaid taxes, but often there are credit cards and all other kinds of debt that will haunt and destroy you for literally years to come.
29
I'm a "liberal", but I have to say I don't feel an injustice is being perpetrated here. Ms. Rayos is here illegally, and has committed other illegal acts during her time here. She's availed herself of many benefits of living here for many years in the process. That she's been here as long as she has, and has raised a family here, should not give her the right to continue violating the law indefinitely. That she's been "productive" during her time here should have no bearing either - she's been compensated for her work. It's a sad story from a human perspective, but she's not a "refugee" in the sense that we normally think. The responsibility for any suffering her family will endure ultimately rests with her. She had to have known all along that, being an illegal immigrant, a day of reckoning could come at any time.
Is there hypocrisy here with the respect to selective or lax enforcement of these or other laws? Obviously. Should employers of illegals also be held accountable? Absolutely. Do we conveniently look the other way with respect to the routine employment of illegals in our agriculture, construction, and restaurant industries (to name a few), not to mention in our own homes (yes, Andrew Puzder, I'm talking about you)? Unquestionably. But one thing doesn't excuse the other. That would be a slippery slope to anarchy.
We've got enough reason to be incensed with Trump already. The Times doesn't need to publish bleeding heart stories like this to further the cause.
Is there hypocrisy here with the respect to selective or lax enforcement of these or other laws? Obviously. Should employers of illegals also be held accountable? Absolutely. Do we conveniently look the other way with respect to the routine employment of illegals in our agriculture, construction, and restaurant industries (to name a few), not to mention in our own homes (yes, Andrew Puzder, I'm talking about you)? Unquestionably. But one thing doesn't excuse the other. That would be a slippery slope to anarchy.
We've got enough reason to be incensed with Trump already. The Times doesn't need to publish bleeding heart stories like this to further the cause.
32
Ronald Reagan got approval for amnesty in the 1980's for those here illegally. The illegal immigration was then supposed to stop, but it didn't. Today, we must stop further illegal immigration and be quite strict about it so it doesn't happen. Yet, we must demonstrate compassion, understanding, and mercy to those who are currently here who have built a life for themselves, like Garcia de Rayos. My goodness, she has two minor children born here, ages 16 & 14. No one can support them and care for them like their mother. Who will do that? Are we blind? Drunk with bitterness about how this problem has gotten out of hand? The solution must be comprehensive, and holistic. People are people; you don't break up familes. Look to the future to stop people from coming in, if you wish; but don't create more problems by breaking up families. Reagan understood this and showed this compassion, we must do the same now.
7
Her husband, she is a criminal, she broke many laws. Tired of the double standards you bleeding heart libs ask for, enough of this . Enforce our laws.
17
The people you are addressing don't do compassion, as A Nash's response to your comment demonstrates.
4
The children can leave with her. They don't have to be broken up. Having said that I agree that we can be more compassionate.
2
Congress made using a fake social security or falsely posing as a U.S. citizen to gain employment or federal or state benefits a felony to discourage illegal immigrant. Using a fake identification card or fake social security card is a serious crime because it undermines the nation’s ability to control its borders and regulate immigration. If we stop making illegal immigration convenient illegal immigrants will stop coming. As far as family separation is concerned, 35 percent of American children under 18 live in single-parent households.
20
These individual cases that render at the heart remind me of the situation of the child whose parents let break important family rules, but do nothing to the child out of a sense of compassion. At some point, though, when the family gets bigger or circumstances change, the rule breaking cannot be overlooked anymore, and the parent punishes. Then, the child is upset that a behavior not sanctioned at Times A through J is being sanctioned at Time K, even though the child know the behavior was wrong right from the start.
All that said, more could be done with less person power if ICE started visiting blue-collar factories, warehouses, restaurants, and the like in big cities, and checking employment paper status of workers. If a company has illegal immigrants working there, warn it once. Then close it for a day. Then, close it for a week. Then a month. it won't be long before illegal immigrants in those cities go home in droves, because there's no work to be found.
Politically speaking, I'd start this in big cities in the states that the GOP lost. They're never going to win those places over, anyway.
All that said, more could be done with less person power if ICE started visiting blue-collar factories, warehouses, restaurants, and the like in big cities, and checking employment paper status of workers. If a company has illegal immigrants working there, warn it once. Then close it for a day. Then, close it for a week. Then a month. it won't be long before illegal immigrants in those cities go home in droves, because there's no work to be found.
Politically speaking, I'd start this in big cities in the states that the GOP lost. They're never going to win those places over, anyway.
8
When will people realize it's the system that needs fixing? This goes back to Ronald Reagan, when he pardoned all those illegal immigrants.
We need to change the laws - when will Congress do it's job?
We need to change the laws - when will Congress do it's job?
6
If you value your life, don't hold your breath...
United States is, I believe, the first country who started the withholding tax system across the globe (I maybe wrong). It is an excellent system to collect taxes often the taxpayer has no idea how much is being collected and for what.
It should be VERY easy for IRS to know if a SSN is being used in more than one places and immediately check to verify who is the legitimate owner of that SSN. In fact, the IRS should be able to do this check when the first withholding payment is made from a second source on a SSN. Consequently, the identity of a fraudulent user can me made rather quickly.
Only issue here is that whether the IRS really wants to do this. I am not mean spirited person but using someone else's SSN to get a job is identity theft and wrong. President Trump needs to direct the IRS to setup a system to do such verification and then the ICE folks can round up those folks and repatriate them.
The result will be that all the folks using other's SSN will be put out of business, and persons with their own legitimate SSN can get those jobs. A restaurant or an office building who needs a cleaner is going to hire someone to continue to stay in business and pay a legitimate SSN owner the proper legal wages - it will cut the business's profit but a business has to operate legally as well. We do not want businesses taking advantage and abusing persons because of their illegal status.
It is hard to use someone else's SIN in Canada because of government payments.
It should be VERY easy for IRS to know if a SSN is being used in more than one places and immediately check to verify who is the legitimate owner of that SSN. In fact, the IRS should be able to do this check when the first withholding payment is made from a second source on a SSN. Consequently, the identity of a fraudulent user can me made rather quickly.
Only issue here is that whether the IRS really wants to do this. I am not mean spirited person but using someone else's SSN to get a job is identity theft and wrong. President Trump needs to direct the IRS to setup a system to do such verification and then the ICE folks can round up those folks and repatriate them.
The result will be that all the folks using other's SSN will be put out of business, and persons with their own legitimate SSN can get those jobs. A restaurant or an office building who needs a cleaner is going to hire someone to continue to stay in business and pay a legitimate SSN owner the proper legal wages - it will cut the business's profit but a business has to operate legally as well. We do not want businesses taking advantage and abusing persons because of their illegal status.
It is hard to use someone else's SIN in Canada because of government payments.
6
'Only issue here is that whether the IRS really wants to do this' They don't. The IRS has been willfully knowingly complicit is the use of fake or stolen SSNs by routinely ignoring notifications from SSA when there is a mismatch. The result has been billions of dollars in tax credits going to illegal immigrants.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2016/04/13/irs-admits-it-encourag...
https://www.treasury.gov/tigta/auditreports/2011reports/201141061fr.pdf
http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2016/04/13/irs-admits-it-encourag...
https://www.treasury.gov/tigta/auditreports/2011reports/201141061fr.pdf
7
"President Trump needs to direct the IRS to setup a system to do such verification and then the ICE folks can round up those folks and repatriate them."
True. But he would have to hire more IRS agents to do this. He proclaimed a hiring freeze on most fed jobs not too long ago.
True. But he would have to hire more IRS agents to do this. He proclaimed a hiring freeze on most fed jobs not too long ago.
2
It's good to have checks and balances. The place to enforce the law is not by expanding the IRS but enforcing at the local level the laws already there, but with compassion and respect.
One possibility that comes to mind are fines for7 years instead of deportation if any law abiding person who "skipped the line" for any reason outside of safety for life and limb.
One possibility that comes to mind are fines for7 years instead of deportation if any law abiding person who "skipped the line" for any reason outside of safety for life and limb.
This is chilling. The estimate of 11 million undocumented immigrants in this country seriously underestimates the tidal wave of fear, anger and despair this policy launches upon American society. Even if you think, likely mistakenly, that you, personally, know no undocumented immigrants, this is not about Them. This is about Us.
Conservatively, for every undocumented immigrant, there are many dozens of American citizens -- family, friends, neighbors, fellow students, workers and worshipers -- whose lived world will be turned upside down and inside out by deportations and the dread of deportations. Through them, if not directly, your America will be inundated, darkened and desolated by this. Shortly, we will no doubt learn of American citizens wrongly detained. Cooperation with law enforcement will plummet in many areas of America most in need of law enforcement, with consequences well beyond.
The scale and full nature of the disruptive transformation of American life, society, culture and economy this begins is now unimaginable, but apparently the Trump administration has doomed us to find out. This is worse than any terrorist attack. This is the institutionalized terror of a racist police state.
Conservatively, for every undocumented immigrant, there are many dozens of American citizens -- family, friends, neighbors, fellow students, workers and worshipers -- whose lived world will be turned upside down and inside out by deportations and the dread of deportations. Through them, if not directly, your America will be inundated, darkened and desolated by this. Shortly, we will no doubt learn of American citizens wrongly detained. Cooperation with law enforcement will plummet in many areas of America most in need of law enforcement, with consequences well beyond.
The scale and full nature of the disruptive transformation of American life, society, culture and economy this begins is now unimaginable, but apparently the Trump administration has doomed us to find out. This is worse than any terrorist attack. This is the institutionalized terror of a racist police state.
13
Where was all of this angst when Akai Gurley was killed? Or Tamir Rice? Or Eric Garner? Or John Crawford? I don't recall it. And they were citizens. Most people shrugged and went about their affairs. The NYT certainly didn't run stories every single day about their family's loss and the injustice of no charges/convictions. I don't seem to remember hand-wringing about police-states and the darkening of America.
Mrs. Rayos and every other illegal immigrant have no right to be in the US. Their removal is the necessary and justified remedy for their presence. No one is shooting them or choking them to death or sending them to gas chambers. They are merely being assisted in returning to their own nations.
Mrs. Rayos and every other illegal immigrant have no right to be in the US. Their removal is the necessary and justified remedy for their presence. No one is shooting them or choking them to death or sending them to gas chambers. They are merely being assisted in returning to their own nations.
when will folks realize that elections have consequences ... failure to vote or to vote for the R's dramatically increase the negative consequences of those elections ... we are unfortunately seeing the results all across this country and even around the world. 2018 can not come soon enough and then we can only hope and pray that everyone will vote and vote BLUE.
3
You take your chances when you knowingly enter another country and work illegally. If you or I did that in most other countries in the world, we would be sent packing, no questions asked. Then never allowed to re-renter that country, forget about applying for citizenship too. Why should the US be any different? Most of us can't just up and go where ever we'd like to when the chips fall here. And expect that new country to educate our children, provide housing, food, clothing and jobs and medical care. Return them. They have no rights to remain, none.
23
Undocumented immigrants pay $12 billion a year into Social Security. They receive $0 back. Trump's policy makes each one of them a criminal alien. All you people screaming for their removal Better figure out how you're going to make up that amount.
15
Illegal is illegal. Period end of sentence.
16
People who commit identity theft do not pay income taxes. The fed and state go after the victim of the theft and often will place liens or levys on assets as a result of underpayment of income tax. Often these people also use the theft to get credit cards and incur many other debts. The effects are devastating to the victim. As I'm a CPA I have have had six very serious cases of identity theft and have helped people spend years trying to unravel the fraud. I am very opposed to Donald Trump btw.
7
For one stop reelecting congress persons who don't pay into S.S. or volunteer to make payments into it.
The deportation of Ms. Rayos is a real act of terrorism. This woman is not a threat to anyone. Is she any different than Melania Trump ,who came here as an immigrant seeking work ? I suspect the only difference is that she is not married to Donald Trump, or work as a domestic for Andy Puzder, the Secretary of Labor nominee.
15
Why did it take 8 years to deport her?
20
Once again the law is used against the poor and weak, while old white men are allowed to violate laws with impunity, Trump as a prime example, Bannon not far behind. There would seem to be a strong argument here that the government waived its right to deport Ms. Rayos because it knew of her violation but still permitted her to remain for years. All of a sudden something has changed? Trump is changing laws to punish the poor and reward the rich, Congress is his lap dog. This has nothing to do with justice.
9
“The only crime my mother committed was to go to work to give a better life for her children,” WRONG, she entered the country illegally, and then used forged documents to get benefits she should NOT have. They should have gathered up all the protesters and shipped them back with her!
22
Actually, she likely got no benefits. she just paid into Social Security and federal and state income taxes and got no benefit from doing so.
3
Why wasn't she deported in 2013? Oh, forgot. Obama wanted her here. Send her to live with him and Michelle. They have plenty of room.
19
Unfortunately, this points to the fact that in Mexico there is little to no respect for the law (any law), and people are brought up to believe it is ok to do what is necessary for your immediately family to get by.
That is why the narcos, extortion and kidnapping rings, and corrupt unions, wield so much power and, further, why everyone with anything of value in Mexico lives behind a big fortified wall.
The degree to which immigrant rights groups pretend that illegal immigrants have 'done nothing wrong' in violating U.S. immigration laws is the degree to which they lose my support. Just because you can do something and get away with it doesn't make it a moral choice.
Mexico is already, by far, the most favored nation (in terms of absolute numbers) for LEGAL immigration. Portraying it as otherwise is simply misleading.
That is why the narcos, extortion and kidnapping rings, and corrupt unions, wield so much power and, further, why everyone with anything of value in Mexico lives behind a big fortified wall.
The degree to which immigrant rights groups pretend that illegal immigrants have 'done nothing wrong' in violating U.S. immigration laws is the degree to which they lose my support. Just because you can do something and get away with it doesn't make it a moral choice.
Mexico is already, by far, the most favored nation (in terms of absolute numbers) for LEGAL immigration. Portraying it as otherwise is simply misleading.
24
I will have no problem with all of the Trump supporters demanding everyone be deported IF they stop the hypocrisy and use equal force in demanding all employers who use illegals to be harshly penalized and publicly shamed via Trump's Twitter account.
12
Penalize the employers. Absolutely.
And deport the illegals.
And deport the illegals.
So, she came to the USA and immediately committed ss fraud and identity theft?
Should there be ANY sort of criminal penalty, or are these federal crimes to be ignored?
Should there be ANY sort of criminal penalty, or are these federal crimes to be ignored?
14
Did you miss the part where she was in custody/jail for 6 months?
12
Did you miss the part where criminals get deported?
5
After rising steadily from 1990 - 2007 Illegal Mexican immigration has leveled off or been on the decline since then. Estimates put the number of illegal Mexican immigrants at 5.8 million - down from 6.4 million.
Immigrants who pick most of our food, cut our lawns, clean our homes and do the work that most others will not do. Not taking jobs away from anyone. No "bad hombres" ... just struggling hardworking ordinary people who are willing to risk their lives to create a better life for their families. They believe in the promise of America.
The TRUMP brand is FEAR and Illegal immigration is low hanging fruit. Honestly do you really think he gives a hoot about illegal immigration?
There will be collateral damage in his narcissistic war on immigration, but
this won't stop the tides of desperate people who yearn for the promise of what REALLY makes America great... diversity, compassion and the dream of a better life.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/03/5-facts-about-illegal-im...
Immigrants who pick most of our food, cut our lawns, clean our homes and do the work that most others will not do. Not taking jobs away from anyone. No "bad hombres" ... just struggling hardworking ordinary people who are willing to risk their lives to create a better life for their families. They believe in the promise of America.
The TRUMP brand is FEAR and Illegal immigration is low hanging fruit. Honestly do you really think he gives a hoot about illegal immigration?
There will be collateral damage in his narcissistic war on immigration, but
this won't stop the tides of desperate people who yearn for the promise of what REALLY makes America great... diversity, compassion and the dream of a better life.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/03/5-facts-about-illegal-im...
8
Justice is law tempered by mercy. Our current government seems to have forgotten that. Public policy also entails making priorities and weighing all potential consequences. Pursuing illegal immigrants without distinguishing those who are dangerous from those who are not simply forces them underground and actually makes law enforcement more difficult. There is real human cost.
10
So who sorts the nice from the nasty?
2
And tears families apart. So much for "family values."
3
They are called lawyers, judges, and administrators. The same people who sort "nice" citizens from "nasty" citizens.
Can we impeach Donald and prosecute "even those who have not been charged but are believed to have committed" un-Constitutional acts, lying to the American people, reckless incompetence, spending tax money they never contributed to, conflicts of interest, immoral behavior, .... ?
Ms. Rayos was barely a teenager when she came to this country - I am impressed!!! Her SS payroll taxes paid by any of her employers went into the SS system - and is unlikely to ever benefit from. Undocumented immigrants actually pay a lot in taxes (payroll deductions, sales taxes, etc.) for benefits they will never receive - or if they worked off the books, their employer kept those taxes to themselves shortchanging America (now who is the real criminal now?).
She held up her end of the bargain meeting repeatedly with immigration officials and now Trump the Tyrant orders the split up of American families and maliciously creating a new class of refugees. Not sad - HORRIBLE!
Ms. Rayos was barely a teenager when she came to this country - I am impressed!!! Her SS payroll taxes paid by any of her employers went into the SS system - and is unlikely to ever benefit from. Undocumented immigrants actually pay a lot in taxes (payroll deductions, sales taxes, etc.) for benefits they will never receive - or if they worked off the books, their employer kept those taxes to themselves shortchanging America (now who is the real criminal now?).
She held up her end of the bargain meeting repeatedly with immigration officials and now Trump the Tyrant orders the split up of American families and maliciously creating a new class of refugees. Not sad - HORRIBLE!
9
Untangling any knot is possible with enough patience. Cutting it out feels good because it's quick, but then not so when you realize you've just destroyed whatever it was that got tangled up in the first place. Such I guess are our immigration laws.
4
Here is the thing about Guadalupe Garcia de Rayos's use of a fake Social Security number to find gainful employment. First, under the amnesty provision of the Immigration Control and Reform Act of 1986, the fact that an undocumented person has been gainfully employed was viewed as a qualifying attribute for the petitioner to be granted permanent residency. Even though the government knew that vast majority of employment was secured via fake Social Security number, the government understood that this was an inherent part of demanding that undocumented immigrants work and not become a drain on public and private assistance. Second, most employers know that they are hiring undocumented workers with fake Social Security numbers. All they have to do is use the e-Verify system or simply match the Social Security number with the names by contacting the Social Security Administration. This routine and purposeful oversight make the employer just as culpable as the worker. So, what do with do with all this? It makes no sense for the U.S. government to deport millions of people who are parents of U.S. citizen children, who lived in this country for decades, and whose only crime was to work and make a living. Give these people a path to legalization, and let's stop this madness that are tearing families apart and leaving American children without their parents.
16
Did Melania Trump work as a model and get compensated for her work while in the U.S. on a visitor/tourist visa? Some news reports eluded to it. If she had done that, did she not violate immigration laws? Should ICE investigate? Doesn't ICE know where Melania Trump lives? Doesn't Mr. Trump know where Melania Trump lives?
Would anyone calling Ms. Rayos illegal alien and support her deportation, tearing apart two minor U.S. citizen children from her mother, care to answer the above questions?
Would anyone calling Ms. Rayos illegal alien and support her deportation, tearing apart two minor U.S. citizen children from her mother, care to answer the above questions?
12
Keep the Hispanics, Deport the Socialist (I say in jest, sort of). Nobody works harder than Hispanics. Drive through neighborhoods in Houston during August and try to prove otherwise. Those who came here "illegally" earned a chance to stay. These people that Trump wishes to deport are the greatest hope to continue the American Dream - the idea that a person comes to this country through peril with dollars in their pocket, works hard to create the landscape of the future and their Great-Grandchild be elected to the US Senate, or Governor of the Great State of Texas.
8
How deeply ironic that every single human being on the continent is either a recent immigrant or a descendant of earlier immigrants.
6
How deeply ironic that so many people don't understand the difference between legal and illegal.
8
Think for a moment and you'll realize why that is not a true statement.
I am terribly worried that Trump is going down his checklist of campaign promises, and deporting 11 million of our friends and neighbors is next. Regardless of their illegal status, this threatened mass deportation of longtime residents, and the glee with which Trump supporters greet the thought, makes my blood run cold. No wonder Hitler was able to round up all the Jews. He just had to make them illegal, then they were just "enforcing the law."
7
Please stop the "false equivalence" of comparing Trump to Hitler and reread your history books. Jewish people were legal citizens of their European countries and what happened to them was a tragedy. People in this country illegally have broken the law upon entry, and then doubled down by breaking additional laws such as stealing social security numbers, driving without a license and assaulting others. No one is saying these people should be sent to gas chambers, we are saying they don 't belong here and should be sent back to their home countries.
21
Lynn, I know there are differences, but it is the similarity that is striking: the heartlessness, the silence of good citizens in the face of injustice, the reliance on their status as "illegal" to enforce extremely disproportionate harm, and the mass willingness of Trump supporters to go along with grave injustice. It is the gullibility of voters and the ease with which they are whipped into a frenzy of fear and ugliness to cheer mass deportations. That's why it is very much like Hitler and the Jews.
4
Glee? How about just relief? The idea of lower school tax. The idea of lower property tax from the reduction in costs from the public hospital and clinics. Lower risk of hit and run automobile accidents. The list goes on.
There are benefits to having these deportations.
There are benefits to having these deportations.
2
I applaud the deportation of Ms. Rayos and hope that she is among the first of the millions of economic terrorists who will be deported soon. This woman is a convicted felon: are you kidding me? Those on the left make any argument--no matter how specious--that these economic terrorists "deserve" to remain in the US for any number of ridiculous reasons: they have US citizen kids, they're nice people, they believe in god, they work hard, they pay taxes, all of which are ridiculous. Let's eliminate birthright citizenship to shut down that argument completely. These economic terrorists don't need to come out of the shadows--they need to get out of the country! Let's hope Trump ushers in an era of mass deportations. It's about time!
18
More deportations of felons 2009-2016 than there were 1981-2008.
3
And I assume you will have business owners and corporations who hire illegals for cheap labor arrested, fined and shut down ?
And for the record, Ayn Rand was a joke and highly overrated, Mr Galt
And for the record, Ayn Rand was a joke and highly overrated, Mr Galt
4
Is Atlas Shrugged the last book you read?
2
I am torn by this story.
I feel some sympathy for Ms. Rayos and her family, but I am more concerned about the political implications.
Most democrats have taken a compassionate posture towards people like Ms. Rayos. Unfortunately, I think this is now the minority position.
Trump won the White House in great part due to his bombastic pronouncements on immigration, terrorism and jobs.
The democratic party is being driven by its base on immigration. Unfortunately, the support of this base is not enough to win elections.
This administration is the worst in modern history, but they might be elected again with a populist position on immigration and jobs.
BTW, I do support the populist pronouncements on jobs. For too long we have seen jobs shipped overseas without the politicians doing anything. My personal experience is not with manufacturing, but the hundreds of thousands of software development jobs shipped overseas by greedy corporations.
I feel some sympathy for Ms. Rayos and her family, but I am more concerned about the political implications.
Most democrats have taken a compassionate posture towards people like Ms. Rayos. Unfortunately, I think this is now the minority position.
Trump won the White House in great part due to his bombastic pronouncements on immigration, terrorism and jobs.
The democratic party is being driven by its base on immigration. Unfortunately, the support of this base is not enough to win elections.
This administration is the worst in modern history, but they might be elected again with a populist position on immigration and jobs.
BTW, I do support the populist pronouncements on jobs. For too long we have seen jobs shipped overseas without the politicians doing anything. My personal experience is not with manufacturing, but the hundreds of thousands of software development jobs shipped overseas by greedy corporations.
4
I didn't commit any crimes. Just violated the immigration laws of the United States and falsified government documents.
18
Also true is that possesing fake US documents carries a max penalty of up to 10 years. https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-1524-false-identif...
6
I have mixed feelings about this story. On one hand, I feel compassion for the family but on the other, I do not see what is wrong with deporting someone who has thumbed their nose at our citizenship requirements. Those of you criticizing the government for picking on the weak have a point but would you expect to sneak into Australia, get caught for identity theft and be allowed to remain there for nearly two decades? Perspective, people.
22
Trump himself has done more harm to more Americans trough his "Trump University" than Ms. Rayos ever can and will. He had to return some of the money he extracted from his unwitting students; she gets deported. What a perversion of justice and fairness.
7
probably 90% of the people charged under this are men but the article had to pick the female to square with PC principles
15
did you read? She's the first arrested under Trump's order.
"Lawyers from two of the nation’s leading civil rights’ groups said Ms. Rayos might be the first undocumented immigrant to be arrested during a scheduled meeting with immigration officials since Mr. Trump took office."
"Lawyers from two of the nation’s leading civil rights’ groups said Ms. Rayos might be the first undocumented immigrant to be arrested during a scheduled meeting with immigration officials since Mr. Trump took office."
2
This may appear "legal", but it isn't right. Somehow we must figure out what is both right and legal. Under Trump, we have neither. He's our Mussolini.
7
I didn't realize Trump was Italian, thanks for the genealogy.
3
I am uber-liberal, but something needs to be fixed. Ms. Rayos arrived in the US at age 16 and never received a proper visa. She used a fake SS number to work, was caught, and has since had to check in at a Customs and Immigration Office. Is this office set up to help people receive legal documentation, and if not, what is its purpose? An undocumented person can simply check in with a gov't office? Is there a reason she hasn't applied for citizenship the past 21 years, or before 2008?
I don't have the answers, but a system that is organized to keep Ms. Rayos and others in the US illegally seems bizarre. I feel bad for all people who are caught in this web, but there's got to be a better solution than this.
I don't have the answers, but a system that is organized to keep Ms. Rayos and others in the US illegally seems bizarre. I feel bad for all people who are caught in this web, but there's got to be a better solution than this.
23
As a first generation born in the United States from Mexico my family always considered the illegals as a slap in the face. My family paid all the fees, endured all the interviews and jumped through all the hoops to enter legally. My Grandfather joined the U.S. military from Mexico to start the process. He loved this country more than most people born to it and found the whole "illegal" immigrant issue to be insulting. He said "Your first action in your new country shouldn't be to flaunt their laws." I miss him.
305
Salvador, your grandfather must have been a great man. I am proud to be your fellow citizen...
11
Very well said, and I agree with your grandfather's statement.
Two of my grandparents also immigrated here and they followed all the laws and eventually became U.S. citizens. I remember my grandmother telling me how proud she was to be in this country, and to become a naturalized citizen.
Two of my grandparents also immigrated here and they followed all the laws and eventually became U.S. citizens. I remember my grandmother telling me how proud she was to be in this country, and to become a naturalized citizen.
14
my grandfather, who i also miss, was the immigrant child of a smart but poor barber who got out of germany at the right time and a closeted native american woman who kept her genetics secret. he worked as a cop and then a security guard into his 70's and held little in high regard besides his family.
he taught me that everyone has a skeleton in their family closet. you might want to dig around a bit more in yours.
my sunday school childhood made me leery of throwing stones; who is without sin?
i've also tired of people claiming that they love "this country more than most people born to it". or that they are more patriotic. you can't measure love or patriotism.
i don't think the U.S. military takes 14 year old girls (so you might wonder what were her childhood legal options, no?) , but aside from that i get your feelings, i just find them misplaced.
he taught me that everyone has a skeleton in their family closet. you might want to dig around a bit more in yours.
my sunday school childhood made me leery of throwing stones; who is without sin?
i've also tired of people claiming that they love "this country more than most people born to it". or that they are more patriotic. you can't measure love or patriotism.
i don't think the U.S. military takes 14 year old girls (so you might wonder what were her childhood legal options, no?) , but aside from that i get your feelings, i just find them misplaced.
1
This is what is to be expected when you have a person like Trump and his cronies in charge. 21 years and she is going to be deported. How tragic.
4
Not tragic as she is a criminal.
6
If an American Citizen forges a document or uses a fake social security number, they go to prison. Thats an American citizen, a mother, a father, sister, brother. Where is your outrage for these families being split up because a family member decided to break the law? Should we make forgery legal for all? Is your position that only American Citizens should be bound by the law while Illegal immigrants arent?
8
So if I use someone id S/S thats ok ?
12
"THE SCOPE OF IDENTITY THEFT. The 2016 Identity Fraud Study, released by Javelin Strategy & Research, found that $15 billion was stolen from 13.1 million U.S. consumers in 2015, compared with $16 billion and 12.7 million victims a year earlier."
3
From this Sunday's gospel - I tell you, unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whole lot of scribes and Pharisees writing here today.
4
As troubling as this story is for this young woman. She did knowingly break the law when she used stolen government documents. Personally I am glad that we now have examples (in the New York Times no less) of our immigration laws finally being justifiably enforced. Thank You President Trump.
14
This is a sad situation, but one that has to be dealt with one way or another. The reason Trump is in the White House is mainly because of the illegal immigration issue. It's against the law for people to cross our borders illegally. Some are good people and others are only out to get whatever free benefits they can or worse. People blame illegal immigrants for their job losses and taking advantage of benefits paid for by U.S. citizens. Trump has used this issue to take over and manipulate our system to benefit him and his cronies just like the republicans have always used abortion to manipulate people. If the democrats don't address this issue in an intelligent manner, they will never regain power. We have to have some kind of control over our borders and stop the influx of illegal aliens. People who are in this country illegally, no matter what their situation, are breaking the law. There are thousands of sad, heart-wrenching stories about good, decent illegal aliens in our country but you can’t make exceptions because someone has a sad story after breaking the law. Either enforce the law or change it!
11
This is what happens when both parties refuse to impose a common sense law, because one side wanted cheap labourers, and the other side wanted cheap votes. Now we can't fix the immigration system without appearing to be a nation that exploited the illegals for cheap labour, and then acted cruelly, tearing apart families and lives, because they no longer suited our needs.
Had someone really wanted to fix the immigration, they could have just passed laws that would have punished the businesses/people that knowingly hired illegals, or failed to take the necessary steps to verify the legal status of someone before hiring them. But as I mentioned before, we know why that never happened before, and probably won't happen in the future.
Had someone really wanted to fix the immigration, they could have just passed laws that would have punished the businesses/people that knowingly hired illegals, or failed to take the necessary steps to verify the legal status of someone before hiring them. But as I mentioned before, we know why that never happened before, and probably won't happen in the future.
5
There are laws against hiring illegal immigrants. Employers who hire them can be fined or incarcerated, or both. But when ICE raises businesses, protests erupts. President Obama stopped the raids because they "separate families." Trump will probably resume the raids. He should also start putting the people who owned the businesses in jail.
5
Actually the state of Arizona tried to punish employers. The same people who are hitting the roof about Mrs. Rayos' possible deportation lost their religion about punishing employers as well.
When they say "not one more deportation" they mean it.
When they say "not one more deportation" they mean it.
“We’re living in a new era now, an era of war on immigrants,” Ms. Rayos’s lawyer, Ray A. Ybarra Maldonado, said
Seems the legal profession is egged on by the useful idiot media, or is it the other way around? Well it doesn't make a difference
These criminals are NOT IMMIGRANTS, they broke the law, saw nothing wrong with doing that, and now that the screws are being tightened in our systems, they and their minions led by folks like the NYT's scream like stuck pigs.
Sorry lady, should have thought ahead......The piper is calling and the BUS IS LEAVING.
Seems the legal profession is egged on by the useful idiot media, or is it the other way around? Well it doesn't make a difference
These criminals are NOT IMMIGRANTS, they broke the law, saw nothing wrong with doing that, and now that the screws are being tightened in our systems, they and their minions led by folks like the NYT's scream like stuck pigs.
Sorry lady, should have thought ahead......The piper is calling and the BUS IS LEAVING.
20
I think Ms. Rayos's lawyer misspoke. He must have meant "illegal economic migrants" rather than "immigrants."
6
Ms. Rayos came here to work, she has been contributing to American society, she is the mother of two American citizens, so it's beyond appalling that she is being deported. What about her contributions to this country? What about her children? What about her family, or family in general, which the right claim to love so much?
Also, has everyone forgotten that Donald Trump is married to an immigrant? Have we ever fully seen her documents about her immigration status from the first moment she got here until she became a citizen? Does she get a pass because he and she say everything was fine, or because she came from Europe? (And remember not just Trump but Mrs. Trump disgustingly questioned President Obama's citizenship, despite the fact that HE WAS BORN IN HAWAII, A US STATE!)
Trump's first wife was an immigrant. His mother was an immigrant! He allegedly employed undocumented Polish immigrants to build Trump Tower, then allegedly fired them so that he wouldn't have to pay them their full compensation! Does none of this grotesque hypocrisy register with people? Can the New York Times ever add this background to these stories about Trump and immigration?
Also, has everyone forgotten that Donald Trump is married to an immigrant? Have we ever fully seen her documents about her immigration status from the first moment she got here until she became a citizen? Does she get a pass because he and she say everything was fine, or because she came from Europe? (And remember not just Trump but Mrs. Trump disgustingly questioned President Obama's citizenship, despite the fact that HE WAS BORN IN HAWAII, A US STATE!)
Trump's first wife was an immigrant. His mother was an immigrant! He allegedly employed undocumented Polish immigrants to build Trump Tower, then allegedly fired them so that he wouldn't have to pay them their full compensation! Does none of this grotesque hypocrisy register with people? Can the New York Times ever add this background to these stories about Trump and immigration?
4
While we're all focussed on being upset about a mom from Arizona, the Koch brothers are continuing to take over what is left of America.
2
My guess is that you know very little about the Kochs, and have learned to hate them because they are vilified by nearly all whose comments regularly appear here, and thus it is the only correct thing to do. But take a closer look – and keep in mind that there’s a lot about them politically I myself could do without. In 2015 the Koch’s were praised by President Obama for their bipartisan efforts to reform the criminal justice system. It turns out that the Kochs are, and for many years have been, and that their efforts and stated views in that regard are rather closely aligned with those of the ACLU, the Center for American Progress, Families Against Mandatory Minimums, the Coalition for Public Safety, and the MacArthur Foundation. David Koch is one of the nation’s greatest philanthropists; in 2008, he pledged $100 million to renovate the New York State Theater in the Lincoln Center for the Performing Arts and $10 million to the Metropolitan Museum of Art. He has contributed at least $395 million to medical research causes and institutions; at least $35 million to the American Museum of Natural History; and millions and millions to educational institutions. And you’ll find that among those providing major funding for NOVA is the David H. Koch Fund for Science. Furthermore, the guy supports women's right to choose, gay rights, same-sex marriage and stem-cell research.
So tell me, just how much do people have to do to be “compassionate and caring” in the left wing’s world?
So tell me, just how much do people have to do to be “compassionate and caring” in the left wing’s world?
5
Excellent work. Obama did a very good job and hopefully Trump can improve on his effort.
Chairman Mao would be pleased.
Chairman Mao would be pleased.
Good. Have a nice trip.
16
"She decided to face the odds — a risky gamble that was also a statement."
A catchy sentence without meaning.
She played illegal acts with the US laws since age 14:(1) illegal entry; (2) false social security number. Sorry, no empathy here; in fact her behavior amplifies the anger many Americans feel towards illegal Mexicans.
A catchy sentence without meaning.
She played illegal acts with the US laws since age 14:(1) illegal entry; (2) false social security number. Sorry, no empathy here; in fact her behavior amplifies the anger many Americans feel towards illegal Mexicans.
29
This case makes a strong argument for a coherent immigration policy. This woman committed a serious crime in reporting a false social security number (anyone who's had their identity stolen will know what I mean). But if we had a better way of dealing with immigration, one that offered opportunity to those who wish to better their lives here, the woman in question wouldn't have had to commit the crime.
5
She is an illegal cheating our system, send them all back there are approximately 30 million illegals here. I don't feel one bit sorry for her she knowingly broke the law, even the Democrats agree.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQJlmFqUA8w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQJlmFqUA8w
9
Where in the world do you get the number 30 million? Seriously? And please don't quote some random blogger. Where is the reputable data that there are 30 million illegals?
2
I love all these Trump supporters who cite the rule of law with immigrants,,,who bemoan the jobs they are stealing from Americans. It's the oldest trick in the book, blame the weak and the poor. Here in Illinois it's an old Republican tactic. We had Jim Oberweis running for office put out a commercial where he flies over Soldier Field full of invisible immigrants. The rule of law must be followed! They must be forcefully deported! Unfortunately, Oberweis was hiring and getting rich off of these "criminals." Isn't it against the law to hire an illegal immigrant? The hypocrisy...
All those jobs being shipped out of the country were not lost because of the poor, mainly brown, people at the bottom of the company but rather the rich, mainly white, people at the top of the company.
An acquaintance who is an illegal immigrant with two American born daughters, works as a housekeeper in a wealthy hotel in downtown Chicago. She and all her coworkers are terrified right now...not only do they have to deal with the stress of providing food/shelter for their family with low wages, now they have this hanging over their head. It's inhumane...and here's the surreal part, her grown daughter voted for Trump-the same daughter who lives and is supported by her "illegal" mother while she goes to college. I told her if that was my daughter I would have told her to leave the apartment. I think this is what we need to do with the Trump supporters in our lives: you made a horrid moral choice, bye..
All those jobs being shipped out of the country were not lost because of the poor, mainly brown, people at the bottom of the company but rather the rich, mainly white, people at the top of the company.
An acquaintance who is an illegal immigrant with two American born daughters, works as a housekeeper in a wealthy hotel in downtown Chicago. She and all her coworkers are terrified right now...not only do they have to deal with the stress of providing food/shelter for their family with low wages, now they have this hanging over their head. It's inhumane...and here's the surreal part, her grown daughter voted for Trump-the same daughter who lives and is supported by her "illegal" mother while she goes to college. I told her if that was my daughter I would have told her to leave the apartment. I think this is what we need to do with the Trump supporters in our lives: you made a horrid moral choice, bye..
4
Then have her go back to where she came from and apply for a visa like she should have done in the first place.
6
I see Ms. Rayos was arrested in a raid aimed at identifying employers who knowingly hired undocumented immigrants. The raid at Golfland Sunsplash took place in 2008. 9 workers like Ms. Rayos were arrested, but I have not been able to find any reporting of charges being filed against the employers, much less any record of any penalties being imposed. Once again the poor and powerless suffer, while the rich and powerful skate free.
7
One wonders whether the employer, knowing he hired an illegal, simply kept the "deductions" he made on the lady's paycheck.
1
Why would the company be charged with doing the proper paperwork? If someone provides fraudulent documentation to you and then you fill out the required paperwork that is required for hiring a valid person then the company did nothing wrong. What you're speaking about is hiring of illegal immigrants without doing any paperwork, like picking up day workers in a home depot parking lot. The reason why that is illegal is that the employer is also defrauding the government in relation to the tax code.
2
Ms. Rayos was convicted of using a phony SSN, not of identity theft. Either many commenters here need practice in reading comprehension, or they don't care about the difference. I find sloppy attention to detail to be the hallmark of people who react rather than respond, and vote for politicians whose lust for power and self-enrichment is crystal clear.
2
The only problem with that logic is that the SSN is valid. They validate the number during employment process through submitting forms, like I-9. The reason it is so easy to fool the system is that SSN are capable of being reused after someone dies. So yes, it is still identity theft to use someone else's ID, even if they're dead. Then there is there is possessing a fraudulent government ID, aka SS card, with intent to defraud the US Government, among other violations relating to it. I mean I could go on about the laws being broken that is part of Title 18, Part I, Chapter 47.
5
The hate spewed by Trump supporters is appalling, though not unexpected. Our so called president, and his supporters bring shame to America.
2
Check out the vomit spewed in the comments toward any article by anyone considered 'conservative' and tell me whose supporters are so vile??
1
She stole and used a federal identification! Stop normalizing this behavior by implying there was no other choice.
20
Once we let fear make us cruel we go after those who cannot defend themselves. Of course when "they" become "us", we think life is unfair. Shame on us for letting a two century old compromise with the slave states hand the highest office in the land to a terrified male with a track record of cruelty to those less fortunate than he. Thanks for a timely article. Keep up the good work.
3
It amazes me every time a person keeps claiming this, and factually wrong, without actually understanding the reason we're a constitutional republic instead of a democracy. If we were a true democracy then the minorities will have no rights against the majority. We enjoy a system of government that allow the minorities to express themselves and to be able to have an impact on the election. Just because you did not take a civics 101 class does not mean we should have to suffer your ignorance in determining who is listened to and who is silenced.
The reason why the "slave states" argument is crap is that when this amendment was ratified it was done when ALL states were slave states. It's shocking why you dont even understand the system we have and why it protects us from a tyrannical rule by a majority.
The reason why the "slave states" argument is crap is that when this amendment was ratified it was done when ALL states were slave states. It's shocking why you dont even understand the system we have and why it protects us from a tyrannical rule by a majority.
Reagan gave amnesty - we should do the same. Use the resources to fight the drug cartels and the pushers. My outraged is at the billionaire cabinet members who hired undocumented immigrants - just to avoid paying taxes and decent wages. My guess is you will find the same situation within the Trump empire and the empires of many of his cronies. The family clothing line is made in China where wages are low - as Trump' s economic advisor from UC Irvine explains "he would not make a profit if he had to pay American wages". So don't try to play the "stealing American jobs".
229
The Reagan amnesty was a total disaster. Instead of fixing the problem once and for all, illegal immigration only increased afterwards. There's no way Republicans are ever going to repeat that.
9
And Bill Clinton removed it. It's a small detail I know. I'll give you a quote from Bill's immigration speech. "We're a nation of immigrants but we're also a nation of laws", and the person in the article posses a fraudulent government issue ID, not to mention other violations around that. It's funny how democrats are so concerned about kicking out illegal immigrants but a few years ago they were just a hard-liner like Trump. Schumer and Hillary all having a tough stance on it...
1
No. Reagan gave amnesty and it still continues today. Entering the country is a civil offense but using a false social security number is a felony. We have a right to have legal boundaries in this country just as other developed nations do and I am tired of bending the rules time and time again.
2
Both parties are complicit in allowing a steady flow of undocumented workers into our country. Despite Republican lawmakers being the most vocal (and therefore most hypocritical) against the undocumented, they've also quietly supported The Chamber of Commerce fighting tooth and nail to keep e-Verify from being the law of the land and keeping fines to businesses so low that they are not a deterrent. It is just another example of collusion between govt and big business. Nobody in power wants reform. We have undocumented paying into SS and Medicare that they'll never claim, working at depressed wages without any benefits or protections and when they do qualify for food or health assistance for their citizen kids, that cost is shifted to the taxpayer instead of the companies that employ them.
All that said, I do not understand the anger of many towards the desperate families that come here looking to survive another day while giving their representatives a pass of maintaining the status quo. We have made our bed, and now we must lie in it. It is morally reprehensible to call for blanket deportation when their only crime is coming here to work when our system has willingly turned a blind eye.
For those claiming that Obama was soft on immigration, his administration deported 2.5MM individuals with criminal records. That's a half million more than Bush.
All that said, I do not understand the anger of many towards the desperate families that come here looking to survive another day while giving their representatives a pass of maintaining the status quo. We have made our bed, and now we must lie in it. It is morally reprehensible to call for blanket deportation when their only crime is coming here to work when our system has willingly turned a blind eye.
For those claiming that Obama was soft on immigration, his administration deported 2.5MM individuals with criminal records. That's a half million more than Bush.
12
Trump allegedly employed undocumented--"illegal"!--Polish immigrants to build Trump Tower. At least TWO of Trump's Cabinet nominees have admitted employing undocumented workers. Mitt Romney, about as Republican as you can get, was alleged to have had undocumented workers working at his home in Boston, I think it was reported. And on and on. It's just absurd that we attack the immigrants, who are here working and contributing to US society, and do zero to the people who illegally--yes, illegally--employ them. They mostly get slaps on the wrist if even that, and some even get elected President of the United States.
5
I welcome immigrants and I fully realize that they are making a contribution to our society and economy, but at the same time, I don't like the idea that our borders are little more than a challenge and deemed not worthy of any respect. I believe that disrespect in one important area can lead to disrespect generally, for law and social customs, among others.
"LLBowen", I believe you, as I have written previously, are correct in saying that the two dominant political parties in our country have not wanted to solve the problem, especially Republicans in the merchant and farming cohorts who use the cheap labor for higher profits. It is so much easier for politicians to use unchecked immigration to beat each other over the head than to take the "blame" for resolving the issue. Blame is the operative word. Solutions require compromises and who wants to be the last congressman defeated because he or she tried sincerely to put a solution in place?
To this we must also add the public, the voters. In states with large immigrant communities, like Arizona and Texas, this is a hot button issue. In other areas, many people not directly effected don't care. This leads to extreme positions, which is where the politicians seem to want to keep things, unsolved.
"LLBowen", I believe you, as I have written previously, are correct in saying that the two dominant political parties in our country have not wanted to solve the problem, especially Republicans in the merchant and farming cohorts who use the cheap labor for higher profits. It is so much easier for politicians to use unchecked immigration to beat each other over the head than to take the "blame" for resolving the issue. Blame is the operative word. Solutions require compromises and who wants to be the last congressman defeated because he or she tried sincerely to put a solution in place?
To this we must also add the public, the voters. In states with large immigrant communities, like Arizona and Texas, this is a hot button issue. In other areas, many people not directly effected don't care. This leads to extreme positions, which is where the politicians seem to want to keep things, unsolved.
85
Given how many die in the desert trying to reach America, I sincerely doubt our borders are thought of with little respect. That said, I do agree with your thoughts on blame. We are in desperate need of a viable solution that will create the least amount of harm because at the end of the day, shouldn't that be what it's all about? Most undocumented people, or illegals or however you want to refer to them, do not come here to form criminal empires. They come to work, often taking what no American wants to do. They reinvest their money back into our economy. They're not the total drain on society that they are portrayed to be.
I am sad and frightened for our country. Just reading these comments from readers--the majority of them--and one can easily understand how the Nazis consolidated power in Germany. They didn't start gassing people until much later when the populace was good and complacent. Here we go, I fear.
4
This shows how outrageous the propaganda around illegal immigration has become. You're comparing ONE possible deportation to attempted genocide.
Think about that. Genocide.
No one is placing Mrs. Rayos in a death camp. No one is trying to exterminate everyone who looks like Mrs. Rayos. This country, like every other country on the planet, has the right, duty and obligation to determine who gets to enter and remove those who entered without permission.
If you think that's genocide, then I don't know how this country manages to stay together.
Think about that. Genocide.
No one is placing Mrs. Rayos in a death camp. No one is trying to exterminate everyone who looks like Mrs. Rayos. This country, like every other country on the planet, has the right, duty and obligation to determine who gets to enter and remove those who entered without permission.
If you think that's genocide, then I don't know how this country manages to stay together.
4
One swallow doesn't make a flock neither does the flaunting of the law make everyone eligible to violate it and get away with it.
You have a mother with two children, both of whom are US citizens, who was working, paying taxes, including Social Security, of which she will never see, and now she will be sent back to a country she does not know.
The two teenage children must now try to survive without the help of their mother, her earnings and her child rearing.
A family torn apart.
What will happen when the children need support and services they now don't need. They are citizens and entitled to it. The cost in the long run, not just in dollars, but in mental health, could be very large.
They all pay. We all pay. What's the value in that?
The two teenage children must now try to survive without the help of their mother, her earnings and her child rearing.
A family torn apart.
What will happen when the children need support and services they now don't need. They are citizens and entitled to it. The cost in the long run, not just in dollars, but in mental health, could be very large.
They all pay. We all pay. What's the value in that?
390
Her children can go and visit or live with her in Mexico. They can send remittances to her there.
4
There is no family being torn apart. The children, having been born to Mexican citizen born in Mexico[1], are also Mexican citizens. If the mother returns to Mexico, she can bring her children with her.
1. Constitución Política de los Estados Unidos Mexicanos, Articulo 30, http://mexico.justia.com/federales/constitucion-politica-de-los-estados-...
1. Constitución Política de los Estados Unidos Mexicanos, Articulo 30, http://mexico.justia.com/federales/constitucion-politica-de-los-estados-...
Yes but it was her poor life choice that resulted in this situation, and the law is very clear.
Why do we have millions of undocumented immigrants here? Is it not because there are hordes of business owners who give them jobs? Are they not the root cause of the problem? Why do they get a free pass while retribution falls entirely on the immigrants?
13
It's a little hard to find them when they're not reporting them hiring them. In this case, fraudulent documents were used so they couldnt charge the employer with knowingly hiring an illegal immigrant.
We can have compassion for Ms. Rayos, and for her undocumented husband too, but we cannot change the laws just for them. They knew the risks of illegal entry in to the US, and of using fake documents - but did it anyway. The smart move is to use legal channels, and they failed to do that because it did not fit their timetable, was not convenient to them. What about those who are moving through the immigration channels legally - shouldn't they get the benefit of our tax dollars to assist them? Instead, we waste resources holding hearings on illegal immigrants - its the one thing I agree with Mr. Trump on, and I'm a lifelong Democrat. We have serious issues in NY with illegal immigrants driving on our roads, causing accidents and fatalities - and running away from those crimes. We have overcrowded hospital ER waiting rooms, where people must be treated, but again, how much of our resources go to those here illegally? Yes, we have compassion, but we also have respect for the law, and those who think they are above the law, guess what - that won't work. Unfortunately, deportation is necessary, and reinforces that we respect those who respect us. If you work through legal channels to arrive in the US legally, more power to you. If you sneak in and expect to stay, then ICE should find you and deport you. The law is clear.
14
Actually, we can change the laws. We are the People in "We the People." It is our responsibility. Immigration reform based on facts, common sense and decency would protect immigrants who are here working, paying taxes, getting educations and raising families (often citizens.) Arguing that we are somehow safer when immigrants can be arrested for complying with our laws is ridiculous. Arguing that nothing can be done because "the law is the law" is irresponsible.
125
"Respect for the law"? Is that what Trump is showing by denouncing federal judges and saying he understands things better than they do because he was a "good student" in school?
The problem is too many people in Mexico and elsewhere without decent prospects of employment living right next to the richest large nation on the planet. The problem is in Mexico, not here, and that country is painfully trying to move away from its past where the oligarchy ruled and most citizens lived in dire poverty. It is becoming a country with a large economic middle class and, thus, fewer people who want to immigrate, legally or otherwise. The difference in our respective currencies, ours high, theirs low, also plays a major role.
Our two nations, working cooperatively, can take steps to lessen this problem. Instead, we are taking a punitive stance under Trump that will work for awhile but ultimately will not solve the problem. We are moving the problem around, human beings, rather than addressing it comprehensively.
The problem is too many people in Mexico and elsewhere without decent prospects of employment living right next to the richest large nation on the planet. The problem is in Mexico, not here, and that country is painfully trying to move away from its past where the oligarchy ruled and most citizens lived in dire poverty. It is becoming a country with a large economic middle class and, thus, fewer people who want to immigrate, legally or otherwise. The difference in our respective currencies, ours high, theirs low, also plays a major role.
Our two nations, working cooperatively, can take steps to lessen this problem. Instead, we are taking a punitive stance under Trump that will work for awhile but ultimately will not solve the problem. We are moving the problem around, human beings, rather than addressing it comprehensively.
2
Most of those who are here illegally contribute through taxes and social security payments withheld; they pay sales taxes and health insurance. They cannot benefit from Welfare or other social programs, and you can bet your bottom dollar they would rather drive with an insured automobile. We should have changed the law decades ago not just for the Rayos family, but for many others as well. Ronald Reagan pardoned illegal immigrants, but did not establish an immigration and employment policy that would seriously have deterred employers from hiring illegals. Ever since then, Republicans have run away from that portion of Reagan's legacy. Sad!
3
What an Orwellian construction, 'undocumented.'
It's as if the New York Times doesn't want to acknowledge that the United States has, or even has a right to have, laws that define who is in teh country legally, and who is not.
The word you are so painfully trying to avoid is 'illegal.'
It's as if the New York Times doesn't want to acknowledge that the United States has, or even has a right to have, laws that define who is in teh country legally, and who is not.
The word you are so painfully trying to avoid is 'illegal.'
21
Human beings are not "illegal." Undocumented is accurate.
3
Quite the contrary. They are indeed illegal when they are breaking the law by living in this country or any country illegally.
5
It is ILLEGAL to employ these undocumented workers. Are you going to arrest the companies or individuals who are employing them and breaking the law? Do you even care about that?
5
For eight years, Guadalupe has lived in, and taken advantage of, all that America has to offer it's citizens and legal visitors. But, she is neither a citizen nor a legal visitor. She came here without permission and then used a fraudulent SS number to work here illegally. Compassion is indeed due many of the poor from Mexico, but, so is it the responsibility of illegal "immigrants" to begin the process of becoming legal, not just hoping this country will change to suit her. After eight years she should have at least expected that her time was running out and that she would be held accountable. Don't cry for her lack of action. Don't blame Mexico's problems on Americams, We accept millions of legal immigrants who take responsibility, follow the rules and wait their turn. Because she committed a crime after coming here illegally, she even may lose her chance to return. That too is on her, not us.
177
the legal immigrants we accept are not poor folks looking for a better life for their families; our immigrant forebears were exactly these poor folks who saw little to no chance for a life in their homeland and so set out for the USA.
the whims of immigration policy at the time included them; the situation today is the result of a do-nothing but blame everyone government that has shirked it's responsibility and now is catching up by looking tough on immigration.
this is just the latest shameful episode in our present story
the whims of immigration policy at the time included them; the situation today is the result of a do-nothing but blame everyone government that has shirked it's responsibility and now is catching up by looking tough on immigration.
this is just the latest shameful episode in our present story
1
With that fake SSN, she has paid federal and state income tax, which she is unable to claim a refund of when it's time to file in April. The government has no qualm about collecting her taxes, just in returning them. Businesses and individuals alike enjoy the benefits of undocumented workers who contribute to the fabric of our society by cooking millions of restaurant meals, washing dishes, cleaning hotel rooms, caring for other people's children, mowing lawns, laboring on construction sites, working the fields, etc. As they do these thankless, low paid jobs, they are often raising their American citizen children, who go to college and contribute in different ways. Americans have refused for generations to do these low wage jobs, which we think are beneath us. Our arrogance and ethnocentrism is appalling. We should embrace these immigrants, documented or not, who enrich our economy and culture.
There isn't a legal path to citizenship outside marriage or waiting for US citizen children to petition for you once they turn 21.
2
Maybe she did not sign up for amnesty under Reagon is because she was not not in the U.S. at that time.
2
Can't say I think the US is much improved by deporting her. And I really can't say that the comments about the law being the law are all that compelling, since it seems to me that the same people who are demanding the cruelest applications of the law to the weak are the ones who turn a blind eye to the strong, downplaying Trump's actions, to Price's stock manipulation, to Mnuchin's running an offshore bank, to Manafort acting as a bag man for Putin....heck, to Putin generally....and accusing Obama of "lawlessness" and OMG the server, the server, the server.
Until "the law" means something more to such people than a stick to beat the helpless and a political tool, I'm going to be unimpressed when it's rolled out.
Until "the law" means something more to such people than a stick to beat the helpless and a political tool, I'm going to be unimpressed when it's rolled out.
6
A good example of misplaced priorities. We are spending our energy departing people like Ms. Rayos who contribute to society, while eliminating the funding for monitoring of violent, racist, white nationalist groups that kill people. Insane.
5
Why for 21 years did she not make an attempt to become a United States citizen? While she has led a good life, she did have a fake social security number which is troubling.
There is a huge criminal market turning out fake i.d.'s. Fake i.d.'s does not necessarily mean non-existent but may mean stolen. I doubt if the moral outrage expressed for this woman would be so intense if this was your social security number.
Compassion should certainly be taken into account. But living as an illegal does not grant you the same rights as a United States citizen. That's the law.
There is a huge criminal market turning out fake i.d.'s. Fake i.d.'s does not necessarily mean non-existent but may mean stolen. I doubt if the moral outrage expressed for this woman would be so intense if this was your social security number.
Compassion should certainly be taken into account. But living as an illegal does not grant you the same rights as a United States citizen. That's the law.
9
The report says that a judge ordered Ms. Rayos deported. The Obama administration "decided not to act on the deportation order."
How would those outraged by this news react if President Trump similarly started disregarding court orders?
How would those outraged by this news react if President Trump similarly started disregarding court orders?
26
It'sad that the word "compassion" is unknown by many of us.
1
How about we start deporting those Irish immigrants from New York, those German immigrants from PA, and those Scandinavian immigrants from Minnesota?
2
Yes, if they are in the US illegally.
5
If they are here illegally then they should be deported. Along with the many Chinese too. We are a nation of laws. Follow them or change them.
8
She is a criminal with felony convictions and should be deported.
Stop ignoring the law.
Stop ignoring the law.
15
Sorry to see but they are doing right.
14
Instead of ignoring and refusing to enforce our current immigration laws, The Obama administration should have helped people like her to get legal status. This is on Obama not president Trump.
5
Then they came for the Mexicans . . . .
3
Enforce the laws.
31
So you're saying Trump should be impeached for violating the Emoluments Clause of the US Constitution? OK. Write your Congresspeople and get it popping!
3
Indeed, Ms. Rayos is not alone: there are 12 million illegal aliens. The sooner we expel them from our country, the sooner we can focus on rebuilding our infrastructure, improving our education system, and taking care of our own citizens.
21
What would the economic implications be of deporting 12 million people who work and pay taxes? How much would it cost to do so? Have you consulted any sources on that question?
I do not accept your premise that the 12 million illegal aliens pay any reliably quantifiable sum of taxes, so the economic implications are purely speculative.
With respect to the cost of deporting the 12 million illegal aliens, I'm not too worried. Moreover, I am guided by the words of President Kennedy:
"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty."
With respect to the cost of deporting the 12 million illegal aliens, I'm not too worried. Moreover, I am guided by the words of President Kennedy:
"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty."
Finally the rules on illegal immigration are being enforced.
29
An immigration court ordered Ms Rayos to be deported in 2013. The deportation was not acted on until now.
The reason this is such a divisive issue is because people act as if our laws are illegal. As if they can and should be ignored. As if immigration laws are some kind of act against humanity.
When our laws are followed, everyone benefits and this stops being such an explosive issue.
The reason this is such a divisive issue is because people act as if our laws are illegal. As if they can and should be ignored. As if immigration laws are some kind of act against humanity.
When our laws are followed, everyone benefits and this stops being such an explosive issue.
25
So she and her spouse are both undocumented and supposedly aren't able to work. They have two children, citizens of the USA. So for income she must be receiving public welfare for those children all those years - this would include free medical for them (and her for her pregnancies) and food stamps. She doesn't pay federal taxes. I am sorry for this family but something has to give here. The cost of these illegals with their citizen children is huge. Regan offered amnesty - why didn't she sign up - or for that matter why didn't any of the long term undocumented? Because they would have to pay taxes like any citizen would. These costs and lack of immigrant citizen participation are good reasons to send them all back home.
25
"Regan offered amnesty - why didn't she sign up" .....Because 21 years ago, when she was brought to this country by her parents, the year was 1996 and Regan had already been out of office for 8 years.
4
Welcome to the American Police State.
5
Americans who cheer this deportation have a very stunted notion of justice. It is simply unfair to deport a person who has been here for 21 years, and the law would recognize such a claim. The passage of time, that she and her family are embedded here, and the tacit official acceptance of her presence gives her an equitable right to remain.
2
I'm reminded of the old expression "Have a heart." Apply some judgement to those who committed offenses that didn't hurt anyone, but provided for them a better life. Trump's administration can't understand that.
4
People are high & mighty about immigrants violating the law. Yet trump was elected president despite the fact that he violated moral laws right and left, didn't pay contractors, illegally used campaign finance laws, outright bribed the Florida AG to stop investigations of Trump University and has had to settle cases out-of-court for violations of law so they wouldn't go to trial. A man who has the morality of con-man talking about illegal anything is a joke and an act of blatant hypocrisy. And in the world of trump, two wrongs DO make a right, so don't tell me one thing has nothing to do with another.
645
Thank you for saying the absolute truth. When will we act on this? Trump would be in prison if we enforced our laws equally.
HJS So would Hillary
Hillary - yes, the Clintons are disturbing, I agree, but trump is in an alternative universe completely.
1
The party of "family vales" has no problem tearing families apart.
9
The children can go with them, they don't need to stay behind.
5
The family is not even remotely "torn apart".
The parents are Mexican citizens. They will return to Mexico. The children are minors, and will accompany their parents.
As US citizens, the children can return to the US at age 18 and claim their citizenship here if they wish to do so.
The parents are Mexican citizens. They will return to Mexico. The children are minors, and will accompany their parents.
As US citizens, the children can return to the US at age 18 and claim their citizenship here if they wish to do so.
1
I feel sorry that she is leaving her husband and children behind but, she made the decision to enter the US illegally, use a Social Security number illegally, and was then caught. A judge lawfully ordered her to be deported, but the then President decided that 'some' laws and or lawful orders didn't need to be enforced. Now we have a President that has ordered these laws or lawful orders to be enforced, which I have no problem with. Any person entering the US illegally knows what the risks are and shouldn't be upset or angry if/when they are caught.
Just because some don't like what the law is, doesn't mean it shouldn't be enforced. If the people (meaning US citizens) don't like a law or regulation, then work towards either modifying or repealing it. Don't just ignore it, because once people start down that slippery slope, there MAY be many other laws or regulations that could be ignored. For example, near where I live there is a straight 2 mile stretch of road with a posted speed limit of 35mph. There are 5 houses on this road with the remainder either farmland or vacant. I believe that the posted speed limit is too low, does that mean I should ignore it and safely drive at 55 mph? If I get stopped by the police should I complain the law is unfair, unreasonable, and shouldn't be enforced? Or should I man up and accept the consequences of breaking the law?
Just because some don't like what the law is, doesn't mean it shouldn't be enforced. If the people (meaning US citizens) don't like a law or regulation, then work towards either modifying or repealing it. Don't just ignore it, because once people start down that slippery slope, there MAY be many other laws or regulations that could be ignored. For example, near where I live there is a straight 2 mile stretch of road with a posted speed limit of 35mph. There are 5 houses on this road with the remainder either farmland or vacant. I believe that the posted speed limit is too low, does that mean I should ignore it and safely drive at 55 mph? If I get stopped by the police should I complain the law is unfair, unreasonable, and shouldn't be enforced? Or should I man up and accept the consequences of breaking the law?
19
Americans are reluctant to support another amnesty for illegal immigrants because they know open border advocates will work to thwart efforts to curtail future illegal immigration. In 1986, we granted amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants based on promises that the federal government would stop future illegal immigration. But a tsunami of illegal immigrants quickly pushed the number of people in the country illegally to more than 11 million. Before granting another amnesty, we should take measures to stop future illegal immigration. We should empowers states, counties and cities to make it unlawful for unauthorized immigrants to reside within their jurisdictions. (Yes. This means—gasp—a traffic cop might asked for proof of citizenship.) We should make E-Verify mandatory nationwide. We should amend or reinterpret the citizenship clause to grant birthright citizenship only to children born to U.S. parents. We should automatically deny asylum to migrants who enter the country unlawfully. (Asylum-seekers should apply for asylum at U.S. embassies in their home countries or at legal ports of entry.) Once these measures are in place, we should grant citizenship to those enrolled in the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program and permanent legal status to illegal immigrants who have established families in America.
13
Our tax dollars at work.
4
A opportunity is being missed.
When an undocumented worker is deported, let's see if we can pair up the employer with an unemployed black youth, whose unemployment rate is high. Let's make this negative into a positive!
When an undocumented worker is deported, let's see if we can pair up the employer with an unemployed black youth, whose unemployment rate is high. Let's make this negative into a positive!
13
That certainly provides little solace for the children and families of the deported, who need them dearly. There are many other ways to employ youth, black or not. Not sure why you would single out black youth. Sounds like you buy into the failing crumbling "inner cities" trope.
4
Her family is free to follow her to Mexico.
5
Use of false social security number is a felony. Undocumented/illegals should not be held to a lower standard than the rest of us. This woman must be deported as should any other illegal using a fradulent social security number. American citizens don't get a free pass on felonies.
41
Hope you never have to try and support yourself and family in another country. And hope they would have jail and deportation for you as well. Some people have no e,patchy until they suffer the same for themselves.
4
Are you kidding?! Have you ever been outside this country? No one is as lax as we are. If you managed to get into a country on a visa and overstayed you would not be able to rent a home without proper papers, or open a bank account, or even get a cell phone. Forget about getting a job. E-verify and employer sanctions must be added also. I have sympathy for her, but I have more sympathy for all the unemployed and underemployed citizens of our country first. Her kids are free to follow her to Mexico, but of course, they'd have to give up all the welfare money too.
6
In order to vote you must be registered, and registration requires photocopy of proof-of-citizenship documents, such as your birth certificate, passport, or naturalization documents. She could not have voted without registering, even with a fake social security number.
Editor’s note: This comment has been anonymized in accordance with applicable law(s).
1
The Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act (IIRIRA), which President Bill Clinton signed into law in 1996, calls for the deportation of all foreign nationals whose presence in the country is unlawful. It doesn’t apply only to illegal immigrants who commit no crimes other than violations of immigration laws. The IIRIRA increases criminal penalties for presenting false documents such a fake social security cards in order to obtain federal or state benefits or service or engage unlawfully in employment in the United State, but Guadalupe García de Rayos would be a deportable alien even if she hadn’t been caught using a fake social security number. Trump’s guidelines instruct ICE to prioritize the deportation of aliens who commit violent crimes, but this doesn’t mean they should stop enforcing immigration laws.
13
The heartless roundup of productive persons who are "Dreamers" is a nightmare of Trump's sordid imagination transplanted on the American Dream. What can we expect from a man who has a mania with dystopian worldviews and a desperate, pathological need to lie to himself and everyone he knows to confirm that view and expects the world to accept his lies without question.
We are in a very sorry state for a nation of immigrants under the rule of a egomaniacal lunatic who hates and fears immigrants and refugees and thinks his dictates are law. He must be removed anyway possible under the real law of the land.
We are in a very sorry state for a nation of immigrants under the rule of a egomaniacal lunatic who hates and fears immigrants and refugees and thinks his dictates are law. He must be removed anyway possible under the real law of the land.
6
Which laws or judgments are we allowed to ignore? Can a US citizen use a fake SSN and expect no repercussions?
"...a judge issued a deportation order against her in 2013."
Also, the cry to "not break up families" of those who are lawfully being deported is the most bizarre logic ever applied. For any other illegal activity, from jay-walking to bank robbery, no one could apply such logic without being laughed out of court. But in this era of appeasement, we must consider those who break the law as "victims". Victims of what? Asking that our borders be respected?
If you were brought here illegally as a child, blame your parents, not the U.S. government. If you came here as an adult, you knew the risks. Simply because the laws were not enforced before does not mean a person has attained the right to deny enforcement now.
Ask the over-crowed schools filled with the children of the undocumented if they are victims. Or the hospitals with unpaid bills? Or the victims of crime committed by undocumented aliens. Or the taxpayer who supplements the social services for the undocumented.
Borders and laws have meaning or we have no country.
Facts:
In 2014, ICE deported 177.960 "convicted criminal aliens" (the government's term). These were not simply border crossers but undocumented aliens who have been convicted of a crime.
As of 2015 there were about 73,665 "non-citizen" inmates in federal and state prisons.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/08/politics/immigrants-crime/
"...a judge issued a deportation order against her in 2013."
Also, the cry to "not break up families" of those who are lawfully being deported is the most bizarre logic ever applied. For any other illegal activity, from jay-walking to bank robbery, no one could apply such logic without being laughed out of court. But in this era of appeasement, we must consider those who break the law as "victims". Victims of what? Asking that our borders be respected?
If you were brought here illegally as a child, blame your parents, not the U.S. government. If you came here as an adult, you knew the risks. Simply because the laws were not enforced before does not mean a person has attained the right to deny enforcement now.
Ask the over-crowed schools filled with the children of the undocumented if they are victims. Or the hospitals with unpaid bills? Or the victims of crime committed by undocumented aliens. Or the taxpayer who supplements the social services for the undocumented.
Borders and laws have meaning or we have no country.
Facts:
In 2014, ICE deported 177.960 "convicted criminal aliens" (the government's term). These were not simply border crossers but undocumented aliens who have been convicted of a crime.
As of 2015 there were about 73,665 "non-citizen" inmates in federal and state prisons.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/08/politics/immigrants-crime/
21
What is a "fake" Social Security number?
In my experience (a very long time ago), I applied to the Federal Government for my Social Security card -- they assigned the number and kept a record of it (even before there were computers!).
So how (as many comments here claim) is it possible for a number, not assigned by the government, to be used to e.g. make federal tax payments?
Surely when the SS Administration receives payments associated with a number that it (SSA) did not assign, that's proof-positive that the number is "fake" (and should be followed up on).
I suppose it is conceivable that there is a list of unassigned SSN's but even then the government should immediately recognize when an unassigned number was used to e.g. file tax payments!
Something doesn't add up here -- if the "fake" SSN's referred to in this article aren't stolen from someone else, how the heck can they be used in the context under discussion?
In my experience (a very long time ago), I applied to the Federal Government for my Social Security card -- they assigned the number and kept a record of it (even before there were computers!).
So how (as many comments here claim) is it possible for a number, not assigned by the government, to be used to e.g. make federal tax payments?
Surely when the SS Administration receives payments associated with a number that it (SSA) did not assign, that's proof-positive that the number is "fake" (and should be followed up on).
I suppose it is conceivable that there is a list of unassigned SSN's but even then the government should immediately recognize when an unassigned number was used to e.g. file tax payments!
Something doesn't add up here -- if the "fake" SSN's referred to in this article aren't stolen from someone else, how the heck can they be used in the context under discussion?
5
It was most likely another person's SSN. Which means it was not a victimless crime.
15
It's really a stolen SS number.
13
Some immigrants, desperate for work to feed themselves work on a friend's SSN. They keep working until they can position themselves to apply for their own SSN.
2
How come I never hear about those employing illegal immigrants going to jail?
11
I do, I hear about it all the time, when the employer is intentionally complacent.
3
You mean like all of the cabinet picks who have nearly each and everyone admitted to employing illegal household help? Oh right, the laws only exist for the east of us to follow. Do you want to take a guess at how many members of Congress and government appointees have employed help ( servants) who do not have working papers?
Don't be naive.
Don't be naive.
6
The immigration issue was never important to anyone in the Northeastern United States.......UNTIL the tide of spanish speaking white/native americans began setting up two or three mexican restaurants in NewJersey. Then, all of sudden, the spanish speaking black/caribean types began losing THEIR jobs to the lower paid mexican spanish speaking white/native american types........and the euro-white folks began to feel threatened by the hordes setting up in overcrowded conditions in trailer parks and delipidated houses.
Of course, the highly-educated, "holier-than-thou" , Upper East Side Crowd pretended not to notice and continued to lecture the tawdry commoners about "nation of immigrants" and "tolerance" ... yadda-yadda.
UNTIL....the euro-whites stopped re-electing them. Then immigration finally became an issue.
What the NorthEasterner ignores is this.........1000 miles away, in Texas, in California, in Arizona......this ebbing and flowing of cultures has been going on for 2 or 3 Centuries. Mexico City is actually closer to Atlanta, GA...than to Los Angeles, CA. Many folks in el Norte(Mexico's borderlands) have ANGLO ancestors.....Vicente Fox? Obregon is the mexicanization of O'Brien.
Once again, we are in the midst of a clash of cultures.....and we must ask ourselves, "Do we have the political will to Make "AMERICAN" values prevail...in Mexico....or will we capitulate to the "Mexican" standards of civil conduct?" there is a difference.
Of course, the highly-educated, "holier-than-thou" , Upper East Side Crowd pretended not to notice and continued to lecture the tawdry commoners about "nation of immigrants" and "tolerance" ... yadda-yadda.
UNTIL....the euro-whites stopped re-electing them. Then immigration finally became an issue.
What the NorthEasterner ignores is this.........1000 miles away, in Texas, in California, in Arizona......this ebbing and flowing of cultures has been going on for 2 or 3 Centuries. Mexico City is actually closer to Atlanta, GA...than to Los Angeles, CA. Many folks in el Norte(Mexico's borderlands) have ANGLO ancestors.....Vicente Fox? Obregon is the mexicanization of O'Brien.
Once again, we are in the midst of a clash of cultures.....and we must ask ourselves, "Do we have the political will to Make "AMERICAN" values prevail...in Mexico....or will we capitulate to the "Mexican" standards of civil conduct?" there is a difference.
4
Someone is actually enforcing the rule of law and of course some who are in our country don't like it. No surprise there.
20
What happened to compassionate conservatism and family values? There is neither kindness nor value in deporting a hardworking mother of two American children. Only vindictiveness. But that is what our Republican party is all about: cruelty to the poor.
I have come to hope that the courts rule in favor of our President's new travel ban. If the President can unilaterally decide immigration policy, the next Democratic president can unilaterally declare the Us-Mexican border open to anyone who chooses to cross it and grant legal status to all of them.
I have come to hope that the courts rule in favor of our President's new travel ban. If the President can unilaterally decide immigration policy, the next Democratic president can unilaterally declare the Us-Mexican border open to anyone who chooses to cross it and grant legal status to all of them.
6
The only thing that happened during the Obama Admin is that the poor got poorer!
15
There are billions of unfortunate people (by American standards) in the world. How many will you welcome into your home? The Mexicans and South Americans are only "lucky" because they are physically connected. Imagine what would happen if you could walk from India, or Bangladesh, or any other such countries to the US. You'd be living in a slum tomorrow. Sorry, some of us don't feel the need to share everything with everyone. They need to invest their energy in improving their own countries.
8
Why didn't she try to become a citizen during all this time since her arrest?
16
She can't. She would first have to move back to Mexico and then apply for a visa to come to the US as a permanent resident - a process that can take many years. Also only a tiny percentage of people who apply for visas are accepted.
3
You cannot adjust your status being undocumented unless a citizen family member petitions for you, normally you would still have to go back to Mexico to access that process.
3
good question - maybe she did? Are you assuming she did not?
1
Trump’s message in a tweet, which read: “My daughter Ivanka has been treated so unfairly by @Nordstrom. She is a great person -- always pushing me to do the right thing! Terrible!”
"Terrible!" is a too lighthearted expression in the case of Ms. Rayos. I wonder what words will Mr. Trump use in his tweets to express his outrage at the treatment of Ms. Rayos by the ICE, or may be not.
"Terrible!" is a too lighthearted expression in the case of Ms. Rayos. I wonder what words will Mr. Trump use in his tweets to express his outrage at the treatment of Ms. Rayos by the ICE, or may be not.
5
So, she was originally arrested a few years ago and to be deported under the Obama administration. Did her lawyer call that a "war on immigrants?" Or is that kind of incendiary rhetoric reserved for the present administration? What a liar. He knows full well this is no such thing - and yet he chooses those words, anyway. And BTW, how come this lawyer of hers didn't help her apply for citizenship in the past 21 years so she wouldn't have had to break the law and use a phony social security number? Why didn't he do it in the last 8 years when there was no "war on immigrants" under the Obama administration?
27
People in glass houses....
Those loudly asserting a strict application of "the rule of law" should look to their own lives, and the lives of their friends and family (past and present), and consider whether ALL of them -- without exception and without compassion -- have been punished to the full extent of the law.
Trump himself crowed about using loop holes to avoid the law -- when will Trump and his supporters be called to account by the same strict, uncompromising, EQUAL "rule of law" ?
Those loudly asserting a strict application of "the rule of law" should look to their own lives, and the lives of their friends and family (past and present), and consider whether ALL of them -- without exception and without compassion -- have been punished to the full extent of the law.
Trump himself crowed about using loop holes to avoid the law -- when will Trump and his supporters be called to account by the same strict, uncompromising, EQUAL "rule of law" ?
11
Loop holes, by definition, are legal.
Three are many personal stories like this to be found in the immigration enforcement record. What to do about it? We have every right to control our borders. But we want to be "lenient" in the application of the immigration laws. I see no resolution to this dichotomy. In the end, we must ask foreign nationals to respect our laws. No matter whether the perpetrator overstays their tourist or student visa or jumps the fence. No sanctuary cities. We cannot be the final repository for all of Mexico's or any other countries' economic problems. A comprehensive legislative resolution still awaits, where is Congress on this?
12
Our decades of silence in this lady's case have acted as a sort of an "implied consent" to her being here. This "implied consent" resulted in now adult children being born here, and a whole family taking root here over the decades. If we were to "honestly" crack down on illegal immigration, why can't we admit our own mistakes in this "implied consent" of the past, being more lenient for past undocumented workers than for new ones?
3
We don't need "reform". We need enforcement of the current laws, period.
6
Scott - I never consented.
1
So according to many here, its now ok for me to use a fake SSN to file fabricated cash earnings that will never be checked by the state or federal government to receive an EITC? Sign me up because why should not be allowed to scam the system too?
19
Time out. She breaks the law by coming, then she uses a fake social security card and I'm sure she would like the benefits in the future, and then she is surprised that maybe we don't consider her a good candidate to become a permanent resident.... And NYT spreads a little butter on the poop by saying she was able to hide for 21 years so she should get "bonus" points and be allowed to stay. It's not my fault, and certainly not this societies fault for her actions. People make choices and need to suffer consequences, this is a law.
37
You cannt collect SS benefits from a fake SS number.
3
The suffering inflicted upon such a hard working lady as this, by those who would judge her as a criminal, calls us all to forgive, both those who have inflicted the suffering, seemingly needlessly, and those who suffer. May we each find a place in our hearts, us and them, where we see the common humanity of each and all shining more brightly than our then tiny seeming differences.
6
Amen to that! Beautiful prayer for our nation's soul.
2
Welcome to Trump's fascist America. Sad. Believe me.
8
Is this the point where we see the emperor's so-called "big heart?" Doesn't he have "the biggest heart?" I'm sure throwing this this poor woman out of her home, away from her family, and sending her to a place she last lived at the age of 14 is going to make this country safer. Trump is a cruel joke, and America may never be the same.
8
So you don't believe in the rule of law? Should we let the king decide?
3
The figure of justice is blindfolded to ensure equal application of the law. Presenting this womans family as an exception is not applicable.
1
There is a paragraph in this column describing the arrests of Ms. Rayos and several others. There is a mention of an "Arizona law authorizing sanctions" against the people who had hired these people. There is no description of the sanctions that were imposed. Were any sanctions imposed on these criminals? Are any of them going to be separated from their families and sent into exile?
We seem to forget that the reason so many come to the States illegally is to take these jobs that are illegally supplied to them. It is illegal to take these jobs, but it is at least as illegal to provide them, something to do with encouraging criminal activity, or aiding and abetting.
We seem to forget that the reason so many come to the States illegally is to take these jobs that are illegally supplied to them. It is illegal to take these jobs, but it is at least as illegal to provide them, something to do with encouraging criminal activity, or aiding and abetting.
208
Good point Marty. We should instead be talking about "illegal employers" or "undocumented employers" and should suffer life altering punishment. Like the revocation of a business license or permit to operate. Without them the immigration problem would be reduced considerably. No demand, no supply.
As usual, two parties commit a crime. The weaker, less powerful one pays the penalty and the powerful party (who enjoys and keeps most of the benefits) pays no penalty at all.
1
This is a sad situation, but one that has to be dealt with one way or another. The reason Trump is in the White House is mainly because of the illegal immigration issue. It's against the law for people to cross our borders illegally. Some are good people and others are only out to get whatever free benefits they can or worse. People blame illegal immigrants for their job losses and taking advantage of benefits paid for by U.S. citizens. Trump has used this issue to take over and manipulate our system to benefit him and his cronies just like the republicans have always used abortion to manipulate people. If the democrats don't address this issue in an intelligent manner, they will never regain power. We have to have some kind of control over our borders and stop the influx of illegal aliens. People who are in this country illegally, no matter what their situation, are breaking the law. There are thousands of sad, heart-wrenching stories about good, decent illegal aliens in our country but you can’t make exceptions because someone has a sad story after breaking the law. Either enforce the law or change it!
184
Actually, then President Obama and the Democratic party did attempt to proceed with immigration reform.
Which, by the way, coincided with record level of deportations.
Republicans nonetheless knee jerk opposed the efforts while falsely painting them as opening the borders to all.
Which, by the way, coincided with record level of deportations.
Republicans nonetheless knee jerk opposed the efforts while falsely painting them as opening the borders to all.
4
law enforcement is only a topic now because of its use to the powers that be;
before now they were more than happy with the status quo.
ordinary people are suffering for having done the thinkable which was try to obtain a good life for their family.
i'd ask if our slate of transgressions against the law of the USA is as clean as some of theirs; do we also merit being deported to some house of detention for bad behavior.
before now they were more than happy with the status quo.
ordinary people are suffering for having done the thinkable which was try to obtain a good life for their family.
i'd ask if our slate of transgressions against the law of the USA is as clean as some of theirs; do we also merit being deported to some house of detention for bad behavior.
George W. Bush had a humane and workable guest-worker program, but couldn't get it through Congress.
1
Yes its true we are a land of immigrants but until relatively recently the newbies had to rely on churches to get a start, now they are privy to the wide ranging benefits available to them and their families, with the myriad problems faced by the forgotten former middle class who gave so generously both at home and abroad in the name of democracy we can no longer afford the magnanimity, using Mexico as an example, they have more than their share of billionaires, why should America serve as an escape valve to stave off revolution for this nation of extreme inequality? It is also long overdue that we revisit the fourteenth amendment it has been used as a loophole for immigration far too long. that we have given away the farm is an understatement and that Nationalism, racism and anti semitism have raised their ugly head in American and Europe should surprise no one as the poor from banana republics continue to take the few jobs available to the F.F.M.C.[forgotten former middle class]and a few of the clever children fleeing the horrors of Nazi Germany have shown their gratitude by heading financial institutions that continue to fleece the F.F.M.C., tanked our economy, dictate foreign policy that lead to trillion$ wars of choice. and control much of the garment industry that began the off shore movement; the worst part of this is that a whole race of people, myself included, get tainted by the actions of a few. The only hope of change is to shame our own kind and pray it works.
1
It sounds like she was here illegally and would have had to return to Mexico and complied with immigration requirements to enter the US legally. She did not do so and continued to run the risk of arrest and deportation. Surely some of the many lawyers she dealt with mentioned this. Time passed and she was arrested. QED.
19
she was not an immigrant she was illegal and using a fake SSN which is a huge deal (she can vote). I guess liberals are Ok with people robbing banks since they need the money. laws are laws and identity theft is a big one
Liberals have no morals
Liberals have no morals
26
No, she can't vote with a fake social security number. A number isn't an ID. There's not even a card.
What happens is, people, probably illegal immigrants, make up a number, they pay social security taxes, and they can't ever collect them.
In 2005, it was estimated that Social Security got about seven BILLION dollars from deposits from illegal immigrants who will never collect a dime.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/illegal-immigrants-are-bolste...
What happens is, people, probably illegal immigrants, make up a number, they pay social security taxes, and they can't ever collect them.
In 2005, it was estimated that Social Security got about seven BILLION dollars from deposits from illegal immigrants who will never collect a dime.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/illegal-immigrants-are-bolste...
5
You cannot vote with fake SS number bceuse you would not appear on the voters rolls and cannot register because you have a FAKE SS number. No undocumented person would risk discovery to try and register to vote.
2
Pondering: How many "regular" Americans feel they were robbed of a job that the undocumented workers typically occupy? Are there really that many folks - especially in red states - that seriously desire the low-wage work one usually sees in construction, restaurants, lawn-maintenance, hotel upkeep, produce farms, grocery store back rooms, etc. but are unable to get. Seriously.
10
She stole someone's SS number. That is a felony. You may not think this is a big deal until your SS number is stolen and used by someone else to open a new bank account or get a credit card or even vote. Years to get your life back......
12
The point is to pit people against one another so that they won't realize who is really hurting them. Instead of being angry that the top 25 hedge fund managers made an average of $250,000 an hour in 2015 (yes, you read correctly: as much in one hour as the average American makes in five years), they are angry that some starving teenager crossed the border 20 years ago and took a low-paying job in some part of the country they've never even visited.
2
I'll bite. I want my kids to be able to get the entry level jobs that used to be available for teens and now are filled with adults... there is a displacement down the line. Expect that to clear up a bit with the loss of illegals.
1
Mood Swings every day! The Trump Event unfolds like a nightmare that repeats itself endlessly. One day I feel stoical, although never optimistic. I tell myself and others that we all better learn to live with it; these are days when I examine the “paranoia” which seems to have become the new American Past-Time, and critique the futile, non-productive, hysteria that festers in the American soul. Then, like today, reading this story of a Mexican-American, caught up in the whirlwind of the New America, I lose all sense of objectivity! My eyes, filled with strangulating tears, feverishly burn. I look out at the spectacle and see only something unfolding which enrages me. A tragedy cum bathos overwhelms me. Suddenly, I realize that we are living in a Post-Orwellian cauchemar. Everything now appears to go “hellish”, and even “surrealistic”. I become frightened, and then get angry at myself for allowing such an emotion to take hold.
4
"Learning to live with it" means accepting it, which many Germans did in the '30s. I for one, will not learn to live with a fascist dictator who spews hatred, racism and worse and who has an agenda to completely delegitimization our entire governments and its functions in order to have a takeover. I, my friend, will RESIST at every turn!
3
I wonder how you frightened angry resisters would feel if one of these aliens stole your social security number.
1
I have no sympathy for illegal immigrants. I do sympathize with the millions of Americans who have been unfairly forced to compete with them for jobs and I also sympathize with the millions of legal immigrants who have been waiting for years and years and years while the illegals just cut to the head of the line.
I agree wholeheartedly with this part (but only this part) of Trump's agenda. We have the right to decide who comes into our country and we do not need a new voting bloc consisting of 11,000,000 mostly Mexican lawbreakers. It's time for the illegal immigrants to go.
I agree wholeheartedly with this part (but only this part) of Trump's agenda. We have the right to decide who comes into our country and we do not need a new voting bloc consisting of 11,000,000 mostly Mexican lawbreakers. It's time for the illegal immigrants to go.
278
Yup, so many Americans waiting in line to pick tomatoes, clean barns and work at fast food joints. Yet, many companies in dire need of skilled labor, IT and engineering can't find enough US citizens to fill vacancies. The myth that illegals are taking food away from citizen mouths is just that..a myth.
10
CDC MA: you sympathize with the millions of Americans who have been unfairly forced to compete with them for jobs? Jobs like picking your fruit, mowing your lawn, tending your garden, waiting on your table and doing all the menial jobs that NO American seems to want, which are the jobs that these "illegals" do? Do you realize that the large fruit and vegetable farms all over the country are in disagreement with you? And you seem to be worried about how they vote - if the Republicans show even an iota of mercy they will vote Republican.
3
Unfairly competing for jobs? Which jobs? Managerial positions? Teachers? Lawyers? Fire / police / ems? No, the only competition is for jobs that American's either won't do for the money or are dead-end jobs that you would never take. Now, if you would like to talk about paying $7 for a head of lettuce or far more for that cute kitchen reno, or maybe have to deal with raising the minimum wage that would reduce the pressure of having to hire cheap labor... we can talk. As for the 11M voting bloc being bad because "Mexican", you must be new here. The same was said about the Irish, Italians, Poles, Germans, Asians, Jews, Catholics, Blacks (actually that last one was written into the Constitution) and it didn't sound good any of those times either.
6
Ms. Rayos sounds like a perfectly good person who made a mistake several years ago, just like millions of American citizens have done. Ms. Rayos is not a hardened criminal who was convicted of a violent felony. Her crime was using a false social security card. Millions of American teenagers have used a false ID at one time or another (myself included, about 40 years ago). Why is she so much worse than they are?
Until this story ran in the paper, none of the commentors here had ever heard of Ms. Rayos, nor were they affected by her life in the US. It didn't matter to them if she was here legally or not. Now, suddenly people from Colorado, Michigan, Alabama and other places are outraged, OUTRAGED! by Ms. Rayos and seem thrilled that she will be deported, as if it makes any difference to them. What a sorry country we are when so many are cheered to read a story like Ms. Rayos'. When so many have absolutely no empathy for her. Her deportation serves no purpose and makes no difference to anyone, except her family. That people somehow feel satisfied and vindicated by her being sent away is a sorry testament to what Americans have become.
Until this story ran in the paper, none of the commentors here had ever heard of Ms. Rayos, nor were they affected by her life in the US. It didn't matter to them if she was here legally or not. Now, suddenly people from Colorado, Michigan, Alabama and other places are outraged, OUTRAGED! by Ms. Rayos and seem thrilled that she will be deported, as if it makes any difference to them. What a sorry country we are when so many are cheered to read a story like Ms. Rayos'. When so many have absolutely no empathy for her. Her deportation serves no purpose and makes no difference to anyone, except her family. That people somehow feel satisfied and vindicated by her being sent away is a sorry testament to what Americans have become.
909
Not only are they OUTRAGED but it's pretty likely that a certain percentage of them have applied for and are receiving Social Security benefits. Some of which have been paid for by Ms Rayos' hard work.
We should consider the fact that she would never have the chance to apply for said benefits. Let alone receive anything. So all her Social Security payroll deductions are really donations to those of you who are getting Social Security checks.
My dad always said, "Never look a gift horse in the mouth".
We should consider the fact that she would never have the chance to apply for said benefits. Let alone receive anything. So all her Social Security payroll deductions are really donations to those of you who are getting Social Security checks.
My dad always said, "Never look a gift horse in the mouth".
2
It does make a difference. It means the law is going to be enforced. You can see we live in CO. Would you like to hear our story of persecution / harassment / etc by our local county sheriff for years? Trumped up charges; thrown into jail for what ever reason they came up with that day; and the list of issues goes on! What did we do? nothing! repeating NOTHING and yet our life has been made a living hell twice now since 2009 over something that our fire district / county caused that severely harmed us; caused us thousands of dollars in lost wages; emotional harm; etc. We live in a snactuary county in a sanctuary state too so we have no sympathy for any illegals because they are given breaks that we as a US citizen is not getting while her life is being upended for no reason other then they can upend our life. We are supposed to pick up the pieces and move on. Thats very hard to do when you cant afford it; when they stole your car; etc and when you have no resources left. So give us and many other US citizens a break and stop pandering to illegals! Deport and no excuses anymore.
NO amnesty. NO work permits. NO nothing but deportation.
NO amnesty. NO work permits. NO nothing but deportation.
Perfectly good people do not engage in identity theft.
1
Over the weekend my high school kids played in an all-city band concert. After the concert my daughter related this story to me. She was playing percussion and struck up a casual acquaintance with other percussionists. One was a young lady from a high school in the south part of our city. This high school is a performing arts magnet, and in the heart of what's known as the Hispanic district. (Omaha is very segregated). My daughter asked her what her plans after high school were. She said, "Well, if I don't get a full scholarship somewhere, college is out of the question. My mom works at Subway and my dad just got deported."
My daughter said it kind of took the air out of the room. My daughter's been agonizing over college applications, scholarship essays and so forth for months. Sometimes she's been reduced to tears. But nothing in her life compares to the challenges this young lady must be facing.
My daughter said it kind of took the air out of the room. My daughter's been agonizing over college applications, scholarship essays and so forth for months. Sometimes she's been reduced to tears. But nothing in her life compares to the challenges this young lady must be facing.
770
Indeed, the young student whose father was deported likely will face challenges. But nobody needs a full scholarship to attend college in the U.S. if they are willing to accept the debt associated with student loans.
1
You are fortunate to have an empathic daughter!
1
Her dad chose to come to the country through unofficial means, aka illegal.
If anyone in these comments can explain to me how this woman's presence, working, paying taxes, and living in America, is actively hurting people, please let me know. If we can spend billions of dollars on a wall, surely we can provide for all the Americans in need that people are mentioning here. Our resources and efforts are being poorly utilized.
Also, as another person pointed out, it's easy to say "just apply legally". The process can be very long, she has two American-born kids, the situation is FAR more complicated than that, and I implore people to exercise empathy.
Also, as another person pointed out, it's easy to say "just apply legally". The process can be very long, she has two American-born kids, the situation is FAR more complicated than that, and I implore people to exercise empathy.
599
Empathy is the bedrock of humanity but so is respect for the law. When the above two clash which one should we choose. We can choose empathy and wind up as nation with laws dictated by the whims and fancies of being empathetic to violations of the law.
Imagine the disruptions that would ensue if we followed empathy as the foundation of case law
Imagine the disruptions that would ensue if we followed empathy as the foundation of case law
4
You are right. This is extremely complex. But, however sad Ms. Rayos' situation is - and it is very sad - her problems are based on an initial bad choice. Deciding that because she wanted to come to the US, she could. Everything else follows. That initial bad choice is compounded by the fact that once here without legal permission she was obliged to use a fraudulent Social Security number to find work.
On the one side we have the argument that she and her undocumented husband have American born children, that she pays Social Security and Medicare taxes.
On the other side, people will argue that she likely pays no other federal taxes but instead benefits from the earned income tax credit and that it took four years for the immigration system, from 2009-2013 to issue a deportation order that was then never enforced. That she is guilty of two crimes - entering the country without permission and using fraudulent documents.
Whether you call it migration, illegal immigration, undocumented border crossing, the situation is a mess and I don't see a good solution.
On the one side we have the argument that she and her undocumented husband have American born children, that she pays Social Security and Medicare taxes.
On the other side, people will argue that she likely pays no other federal taxes but instead benefits from the earned income tax credit and that it took four years for the immigration system, from 2009-2013 to issue a deportation order that was then never enforced. That she is guilty of two crimes - entering the country without permission and using fraudulent documents.
Whether you call it migration, illegal immigration, undocumented border crossing, the situation is a mess and I don't see a good solution.
3
Just for starters, she's using a fake SS#. Perhaps you'd like to offer to let her use yours. Hopefully we're entering a new era where people don't get to cherry pick the laws they want to obey.
6
What is justice? When we pledge "liberty and justice for all", who are the all? Only those with birth certificates, driver licenses, Social Security cards, and officially issued ICE citizenship papers? Is justice strictly "Law and Order"? Or does justice include grace, space to forgive and forget and reconcile adversities and conflicts humanely? What is the greater good, keeping families together or being absolute with the law in a manner like the enforcers of the Spanish Inquisition? Remember the hypocrisy of POTUS, he wants obedience to his Executive Order for deportation, but as a citizen he defiantly violated Fair Housing Laws. The common denominator is racism. Is it just to oppose or obey the edicts of a racist leader?
263
Justice is conforming to the rule of law, we do have ways to change that and of course the people through the constitution are indicating that they want the law enforced. As a famous person once said elections have consequences.
4
We are quickly becoming like the Inquisition. Watch out!
1
Justice in this case means that someone who doesn't have the right to be in this country is removed to her own country. If someone moved into your house without permission would you accept that? Or would you say that you have the right to decide who enters into your home?
2
What about the citizen who's SS she was using, so you have any idea how this complicates their life. Gee how do I know that because my husbands SS was being used by a illegal. Took two years to get this fixed. She should not have been here in the first place, she broke the law she knew the risk. If this had been in another country she would have gone to prison, or shot as a spy. In Mexico you get 2 to 10 years for the same crime. Answer send the whole family back to Mexico. Two illegals should not make a citizen.
16
I'm about as liberal as they come, but I will never understand the Democratic obsession with blurring, or outright ignoring, the lines between legal and illegal immigration. I wonder how many of them have actually emigrated in their lives...how many of them know how incredibly difficult, fraught and expensive the process is. I've been in the UK for over a decade and teach at quite possibly the best university in the world. Yet, in 8 months time I may face deportation, unless I can secure another work visa. If I overstay my visa I will be deported, and possibly barred from re-entry. Why should long-term illegal immigrants receive more lenient treatment than highly educated, productive, world-class workers?
I respect that the issue of 'Dreamers' is enormously difficult. I am perfectly happy with the US giving them asylum and allowing them, over time, to work towards permanent residency (whilst paying all attendant fees) and, if they so chose, citizenship. After all, they were forced to emigrate without their 'legal' consent. However, we cannot talk about how to deal with illegal immigrants intelligently so long as the Democrats (not 'the left', but specifically Democrats) insist on declaring all immigrants equal, whether they followed the rules or not.
The hard-line and frankly ponderous position of many Democrats is every bit as much to blame for the impasse as the hard-hearted Republican hard-liners. They need to recognize that, and start trying to bridge the gap.
I respect that the issue of 'Dreamers' is enormously difficult. I am perfectly happy with the US giving them asylum and allowing them, over time, to work towards permanent residency (whilst paying all attendant fees) and, if they so chose, citizenship. After all, they were forced to emigrate without their 'legal' consent. However, we cannot talk about how to deal with illegal immigrants intelligently so long as the Democrats (not 'the left', but specifically Democrats) insist on declaring all immigrants equal, whether they followed the rules or not.
The hard-line and frankly ponderous position of many Democrats is every bit as much to blame for the impasse as the hard-hearted Republican hard-liners. They need to recognize that, and start trying to bridge the gap.
72
"Why should long-term illegal immigrants receive more lenient treatment than highly educated, productive, world-class workers?"
What in the world is a "world class worker?" Someone who is trying to feed a family against huge odds? Someone who does good works? Someone who works to the point of exhaustion? Someone who wakes up in the morning or in the middle of the night to do a humiliating oppressive job. Obviously it can even even be someone teaching in some ridiculous education factory that you describe as "quite possibly the best university in the world."
And what makes you more "productive" than the people you are comparing yourself to. Nothing I suspect.
That being said I wish you the best to secure your work visa.
What in the world is a "world class worker?" Someone who is trying to feed a family against huge odds? Someone who does good works? Someone who works to the point of exhaustion? Someone who wakes up in the morning or in the middle of the night to do a humiliating oppressive job. Obviously it can even even be someone teaching in some ridiculous education factory that you describe as "quite possibly the best university in the world."
And what makes you more "productive" than the people you are comparing yourself to. Nothing I suspect.
That being said I wish you the best to secure your work visa.
7
Hear hear, Robert Roth!
3
A world-class worker is an individual who is among the best in the world at what they do. They typically have very high-end, and rarefied skills, and are valued for both their skills and their scarcity. Anyone can work in a water park. Heck, I've done it myself. Not everyone can be a high-level programmer, computer scientist, physicist, artist, doctor, etc. Please, let's try to be realistic here.
None of this, of course, is to suggest that unskilled workers do not work 'as hard' or that they don't deserve at least a living wage. They do. For a nation, any nation, with limited space and natural resources, however, there must be a process by which one determines what work is more valuable than other types of work, skills and expertise. This is somewhat less true of the US, due to its vast size and relatively small population, but the basic premise holds. Everyone can cook basic theme park food, or clean. Not everyone can conduct complicated research experiments (like the Iranian scientist shamefully barred from the US by the Muslim travel ban). Which would be more valuable to the US?
Your post is exactly what I was referring to: the feeling among many Democrats that every potential immigrant, legal or illegal, is of equal value. This simply is not the case, by any metric.
None of this, of course, means that I would oppose making it (much!) easier for workers of all stripes to come to the US.
None of this, of course, is to suggest that unskilled workers do not work 'as hard' or that they don't deserve at least a living wage. They do. For a nation, any nation, with limited space and natural resources, however, there must be a process by which one determines what work is more valuable than other types of work, skills and expertise. This is somewhat less true of the US, due to its vast size and relatively small population, but the basic premise holds. Everyone can cook basic theme park food, or clean. Not everyone can conduct complicated research experiments (like the Iranian scientist shamefully barred from the US by the Muslim travel ban). Which would be more valuable to the US?
Your post is exactly what I was referring to: the feeling among many Democrats that every potential immigrant, legal or illegal, is of equal value. This simply is not the case, by any metric.
None of this, of course, means that I would oppose making it (much!) easier for workers of all stripes to come to the US.
1
So Ms. Reyes is finally being deported. Years after a final deportation order was entered against her.
The rule of law finally wakes from its slumber. Good job, Trump Administration! This is exactly why I supported Trump during his candidacy, and I suspect that this is why millions of my fellow Americans did the same.
Also: We are told that Trump's definition of "criminal alien" could plausibly apply to the majority of illegal aliens in the United States. The NYTimes couches this as a reason to disapprove of Trump's policies. But, when you think about it, doesn't this actually VINDICATE Trump? Didn't he say something in his opening campaign speech about how a disproportionate share of illegal immigrants from Mexico were criminals? Weren't we told at the time by the entire media and liberal establishment that this was a false, Racist, evil lie? Well, it looks like the NYTimes has finally come around!
The rule of law finally wakes from its slumber. Good job, Trump Administration! This is exactly why I supported Trump during his candidacy, and I suspect that this is why millions of my fellow Americans did the same.
Also: We are told that Trump's definition of "criminal alien" could plausibly apply to the majority of illegal aliens in the United States. The NYTimes couches this as a reason to disapprove of Trump's policies. But, when you think about it, doesn't this actually VINDICATE Trump? Didn't he say something in his opening campaign speech about how a disproportionate share of illegal immigrants from Mexico were criminals? Weren't we told at the time by the entire media and liberal establishment that this was a false, Racist, evil lie? Well, it looks like the NYTimes has finally come around!
13
Good. If you are here illegally you should be sent back. If people don't like the laws, vote so as to change the laws. There are lots of laws I don't like, but I obey them. There is no "right" to enter the US and live here illegally.
I know of no other country in the world that allows anyone to just come on in and live there. Either we have laws and borders or we don't.
I know of no other country in the world that allows anyone to just come on in and live there. Either we have laws and borders or we don't.
18
The problem with Common Sense is that it is a very uncommon virtue.
All the blah blah about how illegals suffered to get here, found low-paying work, had families who did well is just emotional blackmail -- we're supposed to feel bad for these people and forget that, at the beginning of it all, they broke our laws. Whatever happened after that is irrelevant.
Sounds cold but either we are a nation of laws that EVERYONE must obey, or we're an anarchical society and everyone can just do whatever they can get away with.
Apologists for illegals like to say "that's not who we are" when there's a call to enforce the border. I guess they prefer anarchy?
All the blah blah about how illegals suffered to get here, found low-paying work, had families who did well is just emotional blackmail -- we're supposed to feel bad for these people and forget that, at the beginning of it all, they broke our laws. Whatever happened after that is irrelevant.
Sounds cold but either we are a nation of laws that EVERYONE must obey, or we're an anarchical society and everyone can just do whatever they can get away with.
Apologists for illegals like to say "that's not who we are" when there's a call to enforce the border. I guess they prefer anarchy?
5
I think that's your side that prefers anarchy. Look at what you have wrought. Check out Bannon in his own words and then look at the fascist idiot who is supposedly running the country now.
1
I'm really liberal, but I'm strongly for illegal immigrants being deported, especially if they've committed crimes. Let's just see it done in humane, ethical and legal ways.
35
So, what's the definition here of "crime." Murder, armed robbery, or speeding ticket. As a self-defined "liberal" I imagine you understand there are differing levels of crime. Is every level of crime deportable?
2
This sad for two reasons: the damage to her family and the fact that a felony conviction for identity theft can be dismissed by the reporter as a mere "common subterfuge." This dichotomy is what is tearing at the heart of this nation.
13
Being taken into custody is supposed to happen when you break the law. She was engaged in Felony Identity Theft and had broken US entry law which can carry PRISON time. The first unlawful entry into the US is a misdemeanor and subesequent entry after deportation is a felony.
12
All this does is spread the word not ever to report to ICE -- and go further into hiding. The local immigration agents and their bosses are clueless about what they are actually causing to happen.
4
Wow, she had a fake Social Security card. Big threat there. She could hurl it like a frisbee and sink it deep into the throat of an unsuspecting gun-toting good old boy (or girl). We can't have that.
5
She is a felon. She was probably collecting EITC and other benefits to which she is not entitled. Is there some part of that you don't understand?
10
As an American citizen, fake a legal document, some little non-threatening form of identification (in your opinion) and then go use your new identity to advance your own interests. The rest of us would consider you a "criminal". This is not different.
4
STOLEN identity.
It wasnt just a fake SS card.....Ms. Rayos stands accused of stealling someone else's identity.
It wasnt just a fake SS card.....Ms. Rayos stands accused of stealling someone else's identity.
4