Bannon said right after the election that "they" will be in power for the next 50 years. This voting lie is the first step towards that goal and not the last, we still have a Supreme Court justice pick to provide more muscle to their programs. Maybe the end-of-days people are right, time to start the countdown towards Armageddon.
36
Donald Trump stated that three-to-five million non-citizens voted for Hillary illegally. Instead of calling Trump a liar, all Democrat should accept Trump's claim immediately. What follows then? Five million illegal votes out of an electorate of 129 million represents a massive fraud of roughly 2.5% of all voters. According to Trump, his election was totally corrupted by illegal votes. If 2.5% of all voters voted illegally, who can state with certainty that this fraud had no effect on the outcome in the Electoral College?
In the face of such widespread corruption of the electoral system, members of Congress from both parties have no alternative but to nullify the results of the 2016 election and schedule a do-over. And if the Republicans in Congress won't act in the face of such a gross subversion of our national elections, let's bring it to the Supreme Court. Let's see Jeff Sessions, or whomever Trump picks to become Attorney General, argue before the court that three-to-five million non-citizens voted illegally, and therefore the results in the 2016 election should be declared null and void.
So, all Democrats should back up Donald Trump's claim about illegal voters, and then demand that the corrupt election results be vacated.
In the face of such widespread corruption of the electoral system, members of Congress from both parties have no alternative but to nullify the results of the 2016 election and schedule a do-over. And if the Republicans in Congress won't act in the face of such a gross subversion of our national elections, let's bring it to the Supreme Court. Let's see Jeff Sessions, or whomever Trump picks to become Attorney General, argue before the court that three-to-five million non-citizens voted illegally, and therefore the results in the 2016 election should be declared null and void.
So, all Democrats should back up Donald Trump's claim about illegal voters, and then demand that the corrupt election results be vacated.
45
As commenter David noted, "if voter fraud is so prevalent, as the Trump crowd claims, then why didn't Clinton win?"
Exactly. That's what reveals Trump's thought process doesn't seem to include critical thinking or deep analysis.
He didn't even figure out that veterans would lose out in his federal hiring freeze since veterans have preference in hiring with points coming into an interview.
Veterans are part of a pool interviewing for jobs. No one will be interviewing. So veterans can't be hired.
He's clueless about how the federal government works.
He thought he fixed it all by adding hiring of doctors and ancillary staff at the V.A. who treat veterans.
That's not the same as hiring veterans at diverse, widespread federal agency jobs...
Even his walk-backs and re-do's lack critical analysis and deep thinking.
Exactly. That's what reveals Trump's thought process doesn't seem to include critical thinking or deep analysis.
He didn't even figure out that veterans would lose out in his federal hiring freeze since veterans have preference in hiring with points coming into an interview.
Veterans are part of a pool interviewing for jobs. No one will be interviewing. So veterans can't be hired.
He's clueless about how the federal government works.
He thought he fixed it all by adding hiring of doctors and ancillary staff at the V.A. who treat veterans.
That's not the same as hiring veterans at diverse, widespread federal agency jobs...
Even his walk-backs and re-do's lack critical analysis and deep thinking.
22
Project Vote - "Ensuring that eligible Americans are not prevented from registering and voting due to unnecessary and discriminatory bureacratic hurdles like proof-of-citizenship requirements is one of Project Vote’s key missions."
"Unnecessary and discriminatory bureacratic hurdles like proof-of-citizenship requirements." Proof of citizenship to register to vote is "unnecessary" and "discriminatory." Proof of citizenship to vote is a "bureaucratic hurdle." With statements like these could anyone in their right minds think there won't be fraud in the registration process.
"Unnecessary and discriminatory bureacratic hurdles like proof-of-citizenship requirements." Proof of citizenship to register to vote is "unnecessary" and "discriminatory." Proof of citizenship to vote is a "bureaucratic hurdle." With statements like these could anyone in their right minds think there won't be fraud in the registration process.
9
"If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself."
34
Democrat party vote fraud is massive, it is widespread, and it is centered in large Democrat-controlled cities. California for example requires no verification of identity or citizenship either for registering or for voting, and this is true of many Democrat-controlled states, many of which also have "motor voter" and "same day registration" which are fraud magnets. Paid registration signature gatherers blanket the US and they never require any verification. Neither do state Secretaries of State or other election officials. Vote fraud is rampant, it is huge, it is everywhere.
17
This article is interesting because while accurate factually, it's wide of the mark from as analysis. In other words it's preaching to the choir. I donated to Sanders, and held the nose to support Clinton doing my liberal duty. I disagree with the tone and the gist of this article.
Donald Trump, lest we forget, is allowed his politics. He won via politics not policy, so why would he stop now. That is what for instance talking tough on torture is about, it plays very well in upstate Michigan and Minnesota between beers. So it is disingenuous of various Left writers to call him out on what is simply smart propaganda; the use of words to create gain for one's side.
Conversely it is dumb of my side to think we can manage the opposition by pointing and swiping forward on the index finger while crowing, "... shame shame shame on you!" No street sense in that whatsoever, the opposition laughs.
I expect the GOP to do whatever it can legally (to be determined) to win elections and I expect it to push the boundaries so that they have to be sued in Federal Court. And I don't hold it against them, I just wish the Liberal side would take the gloves off too, instead of the constant feckless hectoring they seem to think matters and does not. My suggestion is that the DNC or Soros etc. funnel some money to start digging and come up with some fighting points (dirt) to be used against the GOP, from Trump on down. Cut the whining and "he's not fighting fair" malarkey.
Donald Trump, lest we forget, is allowed his politics. He won via politics not policy, so why would he stop now. That is what for instance talking tough on torture is about, it plays very well in upstate Michigan and Minnesota between beers. So it is disingenuous of various Left writers to call him out on what is simply smart propaganda; the use of words to create gain for one's side.
Conversely it is dumb of my side to think we can manage the opposition by pointing and swiping forward on the index finger while crowing, "... shame shame shame on you!" No street sense in that whatsoever, the opposition laughs.
I expect the GOP to do whatever it can legally (to be determined) to win elections and I expect it to push the boundaries so that they have to be sued in Federal Court. And I don't hold it against them, I just wish the Liberal side would take the gloves off too, instead of the constant feckless hectoring they seem to think matters and does not. My suggestion is that the DNC or Soros etc. funnel some money to start digging and come up with some fighting points (dirt) to be used against the GOP, from Trump on down. Cut the whining and "he's not fighting fair" malarkey.
38
Lock him up! Please, Secret Service, please do your job of making this egomaniac as secure as possible. Maybe somewhere in the deserts of the Middle East (best if it is one where there are lots of battles raging) there is a Osama B. type conclave where you can take him. Please! Please! Please, Secret Service, do your patriotic duty. Lock him up! And, yes, throw away the key.
12
Trump's allegations of voter fraud are the perfect way to distract the public from Russian influence in the election.
31
Why is there so much resistance to the conduct of an investigation to get to the facts. One of the more credible reports suggesting fraud is the Old Dominion study which relies on a self attestation of undocumented aliens who claim that they have voted. The estimate from this study is that 800,000 undocumented aliens voted in the recent presidential election. This is not to say it is happening, or not happening, but it certainly suggests that all Americans should want to know more and take reasonable steps to insure the integrity of our elections. This is a non-partisan issue. Not sure how a study will suppress votes. Could someone explain that to the Board?
14
It was said by Haley this week that they "Are Taking Names". You better understand that!
The claims of voter fraud are camouflage for gaining access to the identities of opposition voters.
These people are very dangerous and you softies will regret your gun control and your lack of the ability to defend yourselves when the Republican's resort to civil war, and if you don't believe me, you will lose.
The claims of voter fraud are camouflage for gaining access to the identities of opposition voters.
These people are very dangerous and you softies will regret your gun control and your lack of the ability to defend yourselves when the Republican's resort to civil war, and if you don't believe me, you will lose.
10
Roger Cohen described Donald Trump yesterday as suffering from advanced narcissistic disorder. He is also a man of dubious character and a proven pathological liar. This is Donald Trump and I expect things to get a lot worse as this unhinged president - with the help of the far-right - continues to undermine our democracy. We need a vigilant free press and great leadership to help us fight this unhinged president and his surrogates before it is too late.
14
The new POTUS takes his cues from comic books and woefully unqualified sources that any college freshman would stay clear of, as long as they feed into his pre-adult notions of human and world affairs. He is a spoiled brat-turned-demented-old-wacko, endowed with massive cash yet very little regard for the common man/woman. Where are the Republicans now who would rein him in?
15
None of this is really about voter fraud. Clearly, it's about Trump's exaggerated ego. However, if we're going to investigate our system and practices with respect to national elections, let's do the job right. While cleaning up registration roles (a good thing), let's look into redistricting designed to suppress voting; let's establish uniform standards for national elections (no, it shouldn't be left to the states -- we tried that, remember); let's get to the bottom of Russian intrusion into and effect upon the last election; let's clarify the connection of Trump's people to the Russians; let's examine the Comey Effect and related FBI.
If our recent election turned out pure, Trump would reject the findings. On the other hand, if the allegec large scale fraud, was found, or if the current election was significantly tainted by untoward influences -- which would mean the down-scale races also are likely tainted -- what then? A Constitution crisis? A complete do over? Endless litigation?
Maybe the simpler solution is to tell Trump he won the popular vote. In a time of "alternate facts" that probably would suffice.
If our recent election turned out pure, Trump would reject the findings. On the other hand, if the allegec large scale fraud, was found, or if the current election was significantly tainted by untoward influences -- which would mean the down-scale races also are likely tainted -- what then? A Constitution crisis? A complete do over? Endless litigation?
Maybe the simpler solution is to tell Trump he won the popular vote. In a time of "alternate facts" that probably would suffice.
21
Let's settle this voter fraud issue once and for all and conduct a full investigation. Then we will all know what is going on. We will understand the weaknesses in our system, the inconsistencies. Whether there is fraud or not, we should be concerned when the vote cannot be counted correctly the first time. Why do we end up with different results in recounts? Let's deal with this voter fraud issue - or myth as you prefer to describe it - and then move on. So why the hesitation? Why the hyperbole when describing having to show an ID? "Onerous"? Ridiculous. The same people who you believe would be burdened by the onerous task of producing a photo ID are already pulling out their photo IDs at various government offices, the liquor store, the community college, the check cashing store. There are many onerous struggles that these people face, most particularly in obtaining free assistance to file their tax returns (I know as I work with them), but showing a photo ID is not high on their list of troubles. For you to describe it as such, along with all of the other aspersions you cast on Republicans, leads me to doubt your faith in the voting system, and leads me to infer that you think there is something serious going on. So, again, bring on the investigation.
20
"Republicans may see these measures as a means of staying in power in the face of demographic changes. They should be ashamed of undermining the integrity of our system of government by trying to strip away a right Americans have fought for and died to secure."
The idea that any elected Republican would be ashamed of using his/her office to keep power and gain wealth is absurd. Why else would a Republican run for office in the first place?
Seriously, can anyone out there name even one bill that the modern (Since Reagan.) GOP has put forth that would have benefited the average American? I've searched high and low, long and hard, and haven't found even one?
Republicans long ago lost the battle of ideas, and they know it. Hence the proliferation of gerrymandering and voter ID laws. And now that they have all three branches of government, prepare yourself for the upcoming orgy of further voter restrictions, gutting of ethics laws, crackdowns on dissent, and the like.
Our one hope for the country to regain its sanity and kick these awful people out is that they simply can't govern for the common good. They won this election by making a number of highly publicized promises that they now must keep. It will never happen.
A Democratic Senate in 2018, and a sweep of the House and the White House in 2020!
The idea that any elected Republican would be ashamed of using his/her office to keep power and gain wealth is absurd. Why else would a Republican run for office in the first place?
Seriously, can anyone out there name even one bill that the modern (Since Reagan.) GOP has put forth that would have benefited the average American? I've searched high and low, long and hard, and haven't found even one?
Republicans long ago lost the battle of ideas, and they know it. Hence the proliferation of gerrymandering and voter ID laws. And now that they have all three branches of government, prepare yourself for the upcoming orgy of further voter restrictions, gutting of ethics laws, crackdowns on dissent, and the like.
Our one hope for the country to regain its sanity and kick these awful people out is that they simply can't govern for the common good. They won this election by making a number of highly publicized promises that they now must keep. It will never happen.
A Democratic Senate in 2018, and a sweep of the House and the White House in 2020!
15
OK, he's absolutely convinced that there was massive voter fraud. Now, wouldn't this mean that the election was invalid -- or, say, illegitimate? Wouldn't that indicate that his election was illegitimate, & therefore he is not a legitimate president? But when someone agrees with him, he gets all bent out of shape.....moving right along. Let's all agree with him! Let's say, "You're right, Dear Leader, of course you're right! The election is invalid! So let's toss it out and do it again! Do it! Make American great again, Dear Leader! Give us a new election, give us the chance to show how much we love you and want to make you a *legitimate* president." Hey - ask him the right way and it just might work. Let him declare a national emergency. Call for a one-day nationwide primary say, next week. Ask for volunteer candidates. The previous group doesn't have to run. The following week, we re-do the election, using the same polling places & proof or eligibility used last time -- no changes allowed, so everybody knows where the polls were and what they needed. Maybe call out the National Guard to protect voters in remote areas. Allow a week to count the votes. We could have this done in a month, and Dear Leader would go down in history as the Hero Who Made America Great Again.
6
I suggest that the press no longer use the term voter fraud fantasy of Trump.
I suggest you call it Trump's lies and propaganda to suppress legal voters.
I suggest you call it Trump's lies and propaganda to suppress legal voters.
17
Look, a squirrel! It's amazing how easily Trump distracts the press with a simple tweet while, in his first week, he is signed executive order after executive order on subjects that are far more important and have significantly more consequences to the Democrats in particular. But when you look at all of the articles, opinion pieces, and editorials that have been written, the focus is clearly on the "squirrel". This obsessive focus on irrelevant issues also has the disadvantage that rather than being proved wrong, Trump just might get lucky and the much called for investigation finds some voter fraud, which then allow Republican to justifies all the laws that they have been passing to suppress minority voting. But wait, look, another squirrel!
6
"Republican officials know the voter fraud claim is an indefensible lie. But few are challenging Mr. Trump or raising alarms about how severely this hurts our election system."
Lying is alternative fact in this administration. Mr Trump is an egomaniacal narcissist and the sooner this man is impeached the better.
I am waiting, patiently, for someone at the Internal Revenue Service to, yes, break the law, go to prison, to obtain and release all of the tax returns of Don the Con. If I worked for the IRS I'd probably do it myself. This man must be stopped from his attempt to wreck our economy and our democracy.
Lying is alternative fact in this administration. Mr Trump is an egomaniacal narcissist and the sooner this man is impeached the better.
I am waiting, patiently, for someone at the Internal Revenue Service to, yes, break the law, go to prison, to obtain and release all of the tax returns of Don the Con. If I worked for the IRS I'd probably do it myself. This man must be stopped from his attempt to wreck our economy and our democracy.
6
Each party, elected officials and voters alike should welcome this focus as an opportunity to address the cyber security flaws that abound within the different electronic voting machines used by states to record electorate votes.
Most of these machines have been in use for nearly twenty years and run on old, outdated software that is no longer supported or patched. Cyber security researchers have repeatedly discovered and displayed to Congress various ways in which these platforms are easily hacked and outcomes altered.
If we do nothing else between now and the 2018 election, we should design new voting machines with modern security measures as a priority, and mandate wholesale replacement of the old patchwork that now exists.
The bedrock, or foundation, upon which our representative democracy exists requires fair and accurate elections where votes are counted as cast.
Most of these machines have been in use for nearly twenty years and run on old, outdated software that is no longer supported or patched. Cyber security researchers have repeatedly discovered and displayed to Congress various ways in which these platforms are easily hacked and outcomes altered.
If we do nothing else between now and the 2018 election, we should design new voting machines with modern security measures as a priority, and mandate wholesale replacement of the old patchwork that now exists.
The bedrock, or foundation, upon which our representative democracy exists requires fair and accurate elections where votes are counted as cast.
8
Gerrymandering, voter suppression, targeted purging of voting rolls of minorities, closing of polling places in minority districts, subjecting voters to wait long hours to cast their votes are deliberate attempts to deny one's voting rights.
The Republican party, with the aid of our Supreme Court has brought this country to the point that it cannot be called a Democracy.
If you want to investigate the non-existent Voter Fraud, you should also investigate the various means of Voter Suppression that is in place.
The Republican party, with the aid of our Supreme Court has brought this country to the point that it cannot be called a Democracy.
If you want to investigate the non-existent Voter Fraud, you should also investigate the various means of Voter Suppression that is in place.
13
We have a narcissistic, mentally-ill, little man for president and he is surrounded by a pack of sycophonic enablers.
11
Whether or not there is rampant voter fraud, we can create an environment where both every legal voter can vote, and voter fraud is difficult to achieve.
The first obvious step is overhauling the process of cleaning up voter registration list. Another is to either present a CREDIBLE ID if you have it, or submit to a photograph and thumb print if you don't With facial recognition and finger print recognition technologies, it may be possible to detect a second voting attempt live.
Voter fraud deniers should consult this article, "Elections official caught on video blasting de Blasio’s ID program" and its linked video
http://nypost.com/2016/10/11/elections-official-caught-on-video-blasting...
From article :"While discussing the potential for fraud, Schulkin volunteered that in some parts of the city, “they bus people around to vote . . . They put them in a bus and go poll site to poll site.”"
The first obvious step is overhauling the process of cleaning up voter registration list. Another is to either present a CREDIBLE ID if you have it, or submit to a photograph and thumb print if you don't With facial recognition and finger print recognition technologies, it may be possible to detect a second voting attempt live.
Voter fraud deniers should consult this article, "Elections official caught on video blasting de Blasio’s ID program" and its linked video
http://nypost.com/2016/10/11/elections-official-caught-on-video-blasting...
From article :"While discussing the potential for fraud, Schulkin volunteered that in some parts of the city, “they bus people around to vote . . . They put them in a bus and go poll site to poll site.”"
9
It would do the Times and the US populace well to read the Guardian’s piece on Mr Phillips. Read the whole thing he has made quite a bit of money from Mississippi and Texas. I suspect Trump likes him so much because he is a lot like Trump in how he does business anyway.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/27/trump-voter-fraud-gregg-...
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/27/trump-voter-fraud-gregg-...
4
Perhaps there was some voter fraud: evidently Steve Bannon is registered in two counties in Florida, as well as New York. Did he actually vote in more than one county? That should be very easy to check.
7
Donald's voter fraud fantasy is a continuation of his belief that Mexicans are crossing the border in mass to rape and murder Americans. He discounts all the intelligence agencies reports that the Russians hacked the electoral process and denies they could have influenced the election in his favor. And the election was rigged anyway. Finally, the turnout at the inauguration was far, far larger than reported. When will this madness stop? The answer is, it won't. The president is a pathological narcissist who prefers his version of events to the facts. He may not be crazy, but chooses fiction versus the truth and will blurt out hypocritical comments defending his half baked beliefs. Over the next four years, or for however long he is in office, prepare yourselves for a steady diet of these whoppers.
4
What kind of Junta is this? Why are we going to wait 2.5 years to run a negative and coherent campaign against his lies, deception and white nationalism? The left needs to hit the airwaves with counterpunch after counterpunch and take control of the narrative. Our liberties may not be waiting for us like we wish. Who do I write the check out to?
4
But it is not a fantasy per se, nor it should be continued to be
labeled as such. It is a BIG LIE, propaganda with a dual purpose-to
incite the mobilization of politically sympathetic voters and justify
state politicians to pass laws with the same goal as
Jim Crow in the south.
If a state were truly interested in voter integrity, it would
fund a statewide effort for a simple single citizen ID that would be
easily obtained, and which would be used at election time.
The types of laws that have been adopted do not do this because
their forms of ID are not easily nor immediately available to all of
voting age within the state.
The evident avoidance of such an effort reveals the true anti democratic
and purely partisan nature of such efforts, which could not
find sufficient political support without the voter fraud canard
constantly being waved in front of the deplorables to
maintain their slavish zeal to promote this execrable BIG LIE.
labeled as such. It is a BIG LIE, propaganda with a dual purpose-to
incite the mobilization of politically sympathetic voters and justify
state politicians to pass laws with the same goal as
Jim Crow in the south.
If a state were truly interested in voter integrity, it would
fund a statewide effort for a simple single citizen ID that would be
easily obtained, and which would be used at election time.
The types of laws that have been adopted do not do this because
their forms of ID are not easily nor immediately available to all of
voting age within the state.
The evident avoidance of such an effort reveals the true anti democratic
and purely partisan nature of such efforts, which could not
find sufficient political support without the voter fraud canard
constantly being waved in front of the deplorables to
maintain their slavish zeal to promote this execrable BIG LIE.
1
Democrats are notorious miracle workers. Dead democrats often arise from the dead, to materialize from an urn of ashes, vote, and then return to their urns or their coffins. Ask JFK. The dead people of Chicago put him in the oval office. No one disputes that. Trump is right. There needs to be an investigation. Purge illegal immigrants and the dead people from the democrat voting rolls. It may not be 5 million but it is clearly over one million . Stay tuned.
8
They like to separate voter fraud and election fraud. Dead people voting, people with dementia in nursing homes voting, and various forms of cheating using absentee ballots and voting machines would all be classed as election fraud.
So beware when you hear about voter fraud, because it is a very narrow classification.
So beware when you hear about voter fraud, because it is a very narrow classification.
5
There is likely no voter fraud by voters, but I would like to see the NYT either confirm or deny reporter Greg Palast's investigation showing extensive voter fraud by the GOP. Palast says that Kris Kobach, Kansas Secretary of State, was funded by the Kochs to misuse Crosscheck, a tool used to weed out double-voters in 28 states. Palast interviewed people who were kicked off voter rolls, even if their middle names and Social Security numbers did not match. Minorities were targeted using common minority surnames and race. Palast estimates that up to two million minority voters were fraudulently removed from voter rolls. Why is this not a story? If it is not true, say why. If it is true, this is a huge story and should not be shunted aside. (Perhaps we now know why Trump is so caught up in this fake double-voting issue!) Palast is a serious reporter, and has written for the Guardian, the BBC, and Rolling Stone. Please, media, do your job and tell us what merit there is to Palast's claims!
9
Is it a coincidence that since the invention of electronic voting machines - with no paper trail Republicans have been winning elections over and over again, despite the fact that NO ONE agrees with them. There is the true voter fraud, right in front of our faces, yet no one calls out the system. It's pathetic. Why vote.
5
The last sentence of this editorial is a "huuuuge" understatement, Republicans should be ashamed of undermining the integrity of our system of government......." There is zero evidence that the leadership of the Republican Party is ashamed and to expect them show leadership is naive. Press reports from the G.O.P. retreat suggests no courage in that leadership emerged. While, currently, this group is claiming they do not agree with Mr. Trump they are assuming a hands off approach to his plan to investigate.
Allow me to present what this investigation will show. It will show many, possibly millions of voters are either registered in two states or deceased and still on the voting rolls. This will be presented as voter fraud. This is not in person voter fraud, which is what is supposed to be the subject of the investigation. For the record, DEAD people don't vote, voters registered in two states due to moving or clerical errors do not vote in both states. This is how the person now in the White House will undermine the radical act of voting, followed by a plan for a national government photo I.D. scheme.
Allow me to present what this investigation will show. It will show many, possibly millions of voters are either registered in two states or deceased and still on the voting rolls. This will be presented as voter fraud. This is not in person voter fraud, which is what is supposed to be the subject of the investigation. For the record, DEAD people don't vote, voters registered in two states due to moving or clerical errors do not vote in both states. This is how the person now in the White House will undermine the radical act of voting, followed by a plan for a national government photo I.D. scheme.
6
"Fantasy" in this context is too weak a word. We must seriously ask whether Trump is delusional.
7
For years, red states have been alleging "voter fraud" to excuse their unlawful vote suppression schemes. When asked about Trump's investigation by Greta Van Susteren, Paul Ryan said Wisconsin had that issue (voter fraud) too.
So the entire Republican party has joined in a fantasy about fraud to suppress the votes of democrats. And now, they plan to do nationally what worked so well in the states.
Let's hope the courts put a stop to this charade.
So the entire Republican party has joined in a fantasy about fraud to suppress the votes of democrats. And now, they plan to do nationally what worked so well in the states.
Let's hope the courts put a stop to this charade.
8
For most of our history voting regulations have been created on a state by state basis.The one exception was the voting rights act which attempted to curtail discriminatory practices in certain southern states and that part of the law was struck down by the Supreme Court.
Now Donald Trump wants to use bogus claims of voter fraud in blue states to reign in origressuve denocrats who voted against him. The tactic is illegal on many levels, but if Republicans get their way and put in a partisan Supreme Court Justice into Scalia's seat the law and justice will be out the window and voter suppression will be the law of the land.
Now Donald Trump wants to use bogus claims of voter fraud in blue states to reign in origressuve denocrats who voted against him. The tactic is illegal on many levels, but if Republicans get their way and put in a partisan Supreme Court Justice into Scalia's seat the law and justice will be out the window and voter suppression will be the law of the land.
3
Since the NYT Editorial Board has declared voter fraud a "fantasy" I can only conclude that they have had the voter registrations in all 50 states scoured by investigative reporters and have not found evidence of fraudulent registration by those residing within the US in violation of law or the dead. Thank you NYT Editorial Board for insuring that the election process in the US is free of any fraudulent activity.
In other news: In 2005, the U.S. Government Accountability Office found that up to 3 percent of the 30,000 individuals called for jury duty from voter registration rolls over a two-year period in just one U.S. district court were not U.S. citizens. Since 2005 it has become much easier for illegal aliens to obtain state issued identification. A total of 12 states plus the District of Columbia allow undocumented immigrants to obtain a driver's license.
How many states require proof of US citizenship in order to register to vote?
In other news: In 2005, the U.S. Government Accountability Office found that up to 3 percent of the 30,000 individuals called for jury duty from voter registration rolls over a two-year period in just one U.S. district court were not U.S. citizens. Since 2005 it has become much easier for illegal aliens to obtain state issued identification. A total of 12 states plus the District of Columbia allow undocumented immigrants to obtain a driver's license.
How many states require proof of US citizenship in order to register to vote?
9
In virginia I had to when I moved here 4 years ago. So now if someone makes a claim it somehow not the person making the claim who has to prove their claim. You prove it sir.
3
If you have evidence of voter fraud, present it. Now. Not tomorrow, not the day after that, right now.
4
What is most scary to me is that this administration seems have rejected the system of evidence-based reasoning that characterizes the modern world. The arguments they construct would not be accepted in a high school debate program.
6
Fine, let's have a do- over. New election.
9
One word: Diversion! While you disparage on this nonsense, the Grifter and Liar destroys elsewhere. Get him out and Pence goes too.
9
YES! This is precisely the point. Trump has said that he likes to be unpredictable because it gives him power. This is diversion, pure and simple. Stop covering it and his other nonsensical utterances and focus on his truly damaging activities, e.g. the outrageous nominees for Department Secretaries, Attorney General, and Supreme Court justice.
4
Gregg Phillips' claim was reported on November 14 by the InfoWars website run by Alex Jones, the radio show host known to be a favorite of Trump's. That was then linked to by the far-reaching Drudge Report for a short time that day. The word spread quickly among Trump supports. Simply checking Phillips' woefully out-of-date and unprofessional voting fraud website that day told even the laziest fact-checker that this was nonsense from the start. That website now redirects to another website.
5
The only certifiable Fraud to come out of November's election is the one sitting behind the desk in the Oval Office in the White House.
15
It's odd to make the claim that there's no evidence of voter fraud without investigating. I suspect it's because most non citizens voting are assumed to vote for democrats. John fund had a recent column in the WSJ (11/30/16) citing several studies indicating that many non citizens (legally here and illegally) vote. One study concluded 13% and another about 15.5%. If we ignore the legal non citizens and just estimate illegals voting and there are 11 million here then the number of illegal votes cast was between 1.4 and 1.7 million. If there are more illegals here, say 30 million as a Goldman analysis concluded then the numbers are much higher - between 3.9 and 4.7 million. At a minimum to protect the integrity of our voting system it would be appropriate for the DOJ to thoroughly investigate and make recommendations to congress to revise our Voter ID laws to ensure that only those legally entitled to vote in fact vote.
So Trump is basically correct that it is possible large numbers of people voted in the last election. If we assume that most voted for Hillary Clinton the 2.9 million margin could easily disappear.
So Trump is basically correct that it is possible large numbers of people voted in the last election. If we assume that most voted for Hillary Clinton the 2.9 million margin could easily disappear.
8
DBrown So far the only documented cases of voter fraud are on the part of Trump supporters. The real problem is voter suppression, not fraud.
3
Can you cite some documentation?
There are numerous studies pointing towards significant (range from single digits to mid teens) % of non citizens voting. The real problem is that our current system is not suppressing voting by non citizens.
There are numerous studies pointing towards significant (range from single digits to mid teens) % of non citizens voting. The real problem is that our current system is not suppressing voting by non citizens.
5
I do not think there is any voter fraud. But, may I suggest that if there was any in this election it was on the part of Trump voters. There is a reported case of a voter in Iowa who voted twice for Trump. How many other Trump voters dead or alive did the same thing in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin?
I demand an investigation.
I demand an investigation.
14
By all means let the DOJ investigate and make recommendations based on their findings to ensure that non citizens do not vote, and make sure that any citizen who wants to vote can.
3
"Litigation in a similar Texas case is now on hold, pending guidance from the new attorney general."
Which brings the crosshairs onto our third branch of government: The Judiciary. Can we count on the integrity of our courts to stand up for our rights under the Constitution? I regret to say I have nearly as little faith in our third branch as I do in the other two.
Which brings the crosshairs onto our third branch of government: The Judiciary. Can we count on the integrity of our courts to stand up for our rights under the Constitution? I regret to say I have nearly as little faith in our third branch as I do in the other two.
8
You wrote: "Perhaps the most damaging was his insistence that millions of Americans voted illegally in the election he narrowly won."
But Trump is not talking about "Americans"-he's referencing those millions of illegal aliens that somehow have unencumbered access to ballots in every state without the knowledge of election officials. Amazing feat of coordination, indeed.
But Trump is not talking about "Americans"-he's referencing those millions of illegal aliens that somehow have unencumbered access to ballots in every state without the knowledge of election officials. Amazing feat of coordination, indeed.
8
Let's call this what it is: paranoid delusion. There is virtually no voter fraud in this country.
15
Trump's outrage over losing the popular vote may result in another executive order: one that requires we all take a literacy test in order to vote. Oh, wait, that wouldn't work in his favor at all. Maybe he won't notice until it's too late.
8
Big Brother had his Ministry of Truth, which communicated with Newspeak
In our time, delinquent Little Brother has his Department of Truth, staffed by Spicer, Conway and Bannon, who deal in Alternative Facts. The Newspeak glossary can therefore be expanded as follows to define:
SpiceFacts (spiced up data, as in crowd sizes)
ConFacts (the direct opposite of facts)
BanFacts (which don't even allow for, or acknowledge the existence of, facts)
In our time, delinquent Little Brother has his Department of Truth, staffed by Spicer, Conway and Bannon, who deal in Alternative Facts. The Newspeak glossary can therefore be expanded as follows to define:
SpiceFacts (spiced up data, as in crowd sizes)
ConFacts (the direct opposite of facts)
BanFacts (which don't even allow for, or acknowledge the existence of, facts)
8
This is like the "incredible things" his people were finding out while supposedly investigating Obama's birth certificate in Hawaii. Then we never heard anything because there wasn't anything to find. Time to start investigating the Koch Brothers and their various think tanks.
7
The Constitution requires that to vote you be a U.S. citizen. What is wrong with requiring proof of citizenship when registering to vote?
12
And exactly how would you prove your citizenship?
1
The goal of Republicans is a single party state. The lies about widespread voter fraud will be the rationale for national voter suppression legislation to be enacted to thwart any mainstream voter pushback at the 2018 midterms. With all 3 branches of government soon to be in Republican control assuming 1 or more SCOTUS deaths/retirements, the Democrats will be a permanent minority and ineffectual opposition. The 2020 census will enable further gerrymandering and the DOJ will stand back and let it happen. Next up, Federal Marshals raiding the remaining free press.
4
For once, I agree with Trump -- the election was clearly fraudulent. Let's have a do-over!
9
Vanity spending. People move from state to state, and are double registered. Shocking. No undocumented person would try to vote and take the chance of being identified and deported. The 'evidence' for this claim is a conspiracy bloggers remarks....but it would be nice if Trump could not have to keep hearing that he lost the popular vote. Can't this man just operate inside reality?
6
"Eight" years. "The voter fraud fantasy" is about laying the ground work for at least an eight year Trump presidency. As president-elect and president he has said he's expecting to need eight years to fulfill his promises to his supporters. Don't be surprised when he tweets the system is so broken he should continue into a second term without election until the system is fixed.
7
Voter suppression IS voter fraud.
21
Absolutely true! Voter suppression is equivalent to voter fraud. In fact, it is the principal means used by the Republican party to tilt elections in their favor. And up until a short while ago, the Voting Rights Act was our principal means to prevent and fight such voter injustices engineered by Republican officials, particularly in the South. Once our Supreme Court, led by Roberts, decided that the Voting Rights Act was no longer necessary...that those States that were under its jurisdiction are no longer involved in pursuing such measures to limit voter turnout in heavily Democratic districts or precincts, well, it didn't take long after removing that legal obstacle for those same States to resurrect their voter suppression efforts.
Voter suppression is the principal means by which Republicans hope to retain control of the government. They can't win fair and square so they've decided to cheat -- just like their fearless leader (5 deferments) in the White House.
Voter suppression is the principal means by which Republicans hope to retain control of the government. They can't win fair and square so they've decided to cheat -- just like their fearless leader (5 deferments) in the White House.
3
Let's hope if there is a "major investigation" on voter fraud that Jared Kushner and Sean Spicer, who it turns out are registered to vote in two jurisdictions simultaneously, are convicted sent to the Do-Right Hotel pronto.
8
Republicans have no shame and will do anything and everything to stay in power in the face of a changing American populace that doesn't look or think they them.
9
We the People ought to insist that OUR government makes it easier for citizens to vote.
This includes making Election Day a national holiday.
Call Congress: (202) 224-3121
#Resistance
This includes making Election Day a national holiday.
Call Congress: (202) 224-3121
#Resistance
8
Ironically, his allegation of voter fraud is likely true, as delivered by his Russian partners in favour of himself.
9
Over 12M immigrants residing in the US and we are to believe none of them voted? Please that doesn't just stretch the immigration it brakes it. Lets have a thorough investigation.
7
sjaco....we have a system of voter registration. Every vote is recorded by number. Undocumented people typically avoid situations where they would be identified committing a crime and then deported...get it?
7
Did you know that many of them voted for Trump?
4
Oh, you mean like the 600,000 plus illegal immigrants in California who were all too glad to go to the DMV and get their state drivers' licenses?
7
In the meantime, New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman has charged the NYC Board of Elections with improper purging of voter rolls in multiple elections since 2014, resulting in the disenfranchisement of more than 200,000 voters, including 120,000 in the recent presidential primaries.
http://www.wnyc.org/story/attorney-general--schneiderman-negligence-boar...
This kind of systemic misconduct and incompetence is a far greater threat to our democracy than voter fraud. This is where our government and and media need to focus their attention.
http://www.wnyc.org/story/attorney-general--schneiderman-negligence-boar...
This kind of systemic misconduct and incompetence is a far greater threat to our democracy than voter fraud. This is where our government and and media need to focus their attention.
5
And in the meantime, an audit by the NYC Dept of Investigations showed it was ridiculously easy for impostors to vote for dead people. In 61 of 63 attempts, auditors were allowed to vote for dead people still on the voter rolls
http://nypost.com/2013/12/30/the-dead-can-vote-in-nyc/
And a study by Newsday showed 6,000 dead people on the voter rolls on Long Island. And found evidence that 270 of them had actually voted after their deaths
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Dead-Voter-List-Long-Island-Nassau-...
http://nypost.com/2013/12/30/the-dead-can-vote-in-nyc/
And a study by Newsday showed 6,000 dead people on the voter rolls on Long Island. And found evidence that 270 of them had actually voted after their deaths
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Dead-Voter-List-Long-Island-Nassau-...
4
All of President's Trump's craziest "fake news" ideas and accusations have as their subject matter "not honoring and recognizing demographic change," as representative Lee said of Trump's voter fraud fanatsies. His false crowd size estimate was about dishonoring President Obama who had far larger crowds; who was elected, in part, because of the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act and "honoring and recognizing demographic change." Trump's birtherism fake news was not really about whether President Obama was born in Honolulu or not. It was about President Obama's color.
How do we know it was about color? Nobody disputes that President Obama's mother was a US citizen born in Kansas. So there is no dispute that he is a US citizen no matter where he was born. One might argue that, if he were not born in the US, he would not be a "natural born citizen," eligible to be president. But even this argument does not withstand scrutiny. Senator Ted Cruz was born in Canada to a US citizen mother. If a US citizen born in a foreign land could not be president, then Senator Cruz would have equally been ineligible. It is true that Trump made noise about Cruz's birthplace for a few weeks, but then dropped the idea like a hot potato.
In contrast he kept up his birther argument against President Obama for at least 5 years. Every wildly crazy "fake news" item of Trump is about "not honoring and recognizing demographic change." In other words, about his racism and bigotry.
How do we know it was about color? Nobody disputes that President Obama's mother was a US citizen born in Kansas. So there is no dispute that he is a US citizen no matter where he was born. One might argue that, if he were not born in the US, he would not be a "natural born citizen," eligible to be president. But even this argument does not withstand scrutiny. Senator Ted Cruz was born in Canada to a US citizen mother. If a US citizen born in a foreign land could not be president, then Senator Cruz would have equally been ineligible. It is true that Trump made noise about Cruz's birthplace for a few weeks, but then dropped the idea like a hot potato.
In contrast he kept up his birther argument against President Obama for at least 5 years. Every wildly crazy "fake news" item of Trump is about "not honoring and recognizing demographic change." In other words, about his racism and bigotry.
3
There is a simple way to determine the extent, if any, of voter fraud committed in the 2016 election: ask the Secretary of State in all 50 states to send a report to congress of every instance of known and/prosecutable voter fraud in his/her state. The Secretaries of State are responsible for certifying the vote; a vast majority of them are Republicans. Not one of them has reported massive fraud that involves millions of illegal votes; indeed, they know Trump's claim is a just another of the lies he has told in order to soothe his ego over his significant loss of the popular vote.
5
How about if this absurdity moves forward with a major (or even minor) investigation, that old big-mouth pay for it himself, out of his personal coffers? As a taxpayer I am not about to endorse one thin penny to assuage this man's gargantuan ego in his desperate attempt to prove how popular he thinks he is!
4
As usual, Trump's antics reflect more his ego than any concern for voter integrity.
Still, I have to laugh at the TIme's concern here; who historically have waved the bloody flag of election cheating by evil forces; always at the GOP of course.
But that's neither here nor there; we've had a week of Trump and his pathological obsession with the media. Bannon claims the media as the opposition party and Trump has concurred with the odious and idiotic idea.
So ask yourself: what will make Trump stop complaining about the media? Answer: when the media says what he wants it to say. Trump and Bannon want to control what the media say about the Trump presidency, and they're hiding this insidious corruption under the guise of media integrity.
These are dangerous people and they have been newly installed in the White House. This is where America is right now.
Still, I have to laugh at the TIme's concern here; who historically have waved the bloody flag of election cheating by evil forces; always at the GOP of course.
But that's neither here nor there; we've had a week of Trump and his pathological obsession with the media. Bannon claims the media as the opposition party and Trump has concurred with the odious and idiotic idea.
So ask yourself: what will make Trump stop complaining about the media? Answer: when the media says what he wants it to say. Trump and Bannon want to control what the media say about the Trump presidency, and they're hiding this insidious corruption under the guise of media integrity.
These are dangerous people and they have been newly installed in the White House. This is where America is right now.
2
There are 3 voting issues talked about re 2016 election but only 1 is serious.
1) HRC won the popular vote, therefore Trump's election, mandate, etc. is questionable. Not so. This is a leftist narrative with no foundation. The EC is how we play the game. Popular vote does not matter. This has always been so and will be (barring amendment) and poses no threat to future elections.
2) Russians influenced, undermined, etc. the election. Another leftist attack on Trump. No evidence the leaking of DNC e-mails influenced the election and NONE the vote itself was hacked.
3) Voter fraud. We know voter fraud occurs, it's the extent that matters. We know LBJ won 48 senate race due to fraud & 1960 presidential election may have been swung by fraudulent votes. And they couldn't even conduct a recount this elec in Detroit due to inconsistencies. Who knows how many local elections are affected?
Fraud is the real ongoing threat to the vote. While it is doubtful millions voted illegally for president, the fact is we have minimal safe guards.
-- we don't require a national voting ID
-- we don't require a photo ID in many precincts
-- vote totals are passed from the precinct level up, not actual votes
-- there is no reconciliation of individual votes at the state or national level.
-- the hurdle for obtaining ID (real or fake) is low -- if even needed.
These problems can be fixed. Dems resist though, yet scream about the threat pop vote and Russians. Why?
1) HRC won the popular vote, therefore Trump's election, mandate, etc. is questionable. Not so. This is a leftist narrative with no foundation. The EC is how we play the game. Popular vote does not matter. This has always been so and will be (barring amendment) and poses no threat to future elections.
2) Russians influenced, undermined, etc. the election. Another leftist attack on Trump. No evidence the leaking of DNC e-mails influenced the election and NONE the vote itself was hacked.
3) Voter fraud. We know voter fraud occurs, it's the extent that matters. We know LBJ won 48 senate race due to fraud & 1960 presidential election may have been swung by fraudulent votes. And they couldn't even conduct a recount this elec in Detroit due to inconsistencies. Who knows how many local elections are affected?
Fraud is the real ongoing threat to the vote. While it is doubtful millions voted illegally for president, the fact is we have minimal safe guards.
-- we don't require a national voting ID
-- we don't require a photo ID in many precincts
-- vote totals are passed from the precinct level up, not actual votes
-- there is no reconciliation of individual votes at the state or national level.
-- the hurdle for obtaining ID (real or fake) is low -- if even needed.
These problems can be fixed. Dems resist though, yet scream about the threat pop vote and Russians. Why?
5
So your evidence of voter fraud is elections in 48 and 60. A little long ago perhaps? And so you use your logic Jim crow laws are surely examples of voter suppression today eh amigo?
2
It would be useful to stop objecting to these kinds of initiatives on the basis of the factual wrongness of the original claims. After all, even GOP-led investigations have shown that voter fraud is a non-issue. And yet the GOP, and now Trump, raises the issue over and over again because of its obvious symbolic value. It is pointless to combat Trump's symbolic politics with facts. The Dems would be wiser to get ahead of this whole sham and come out forcefully in favor of universal standard ID or voter cards, distributed by states or the Federal Govt featuring limited basic data, like name, DOB, place of birth, and a picture. Voting in many countries requires such ID and it helps to standardize the process and instill faith in the system. Our election systems could easily stand for some reform and Dems could lead the charge in this area as a way to head off this silly investigation, which will only generate more he-said-she said headlines benefiting the GOP effort to obfuscate the truth of voter fraud and transform it into another symbolic identity issue. They probably won't do that, however, since the Democratic Party seems to be totally out to lunch, leaving opposition to Trump's hard-right agenda to extra-party efforts, like the Women's March and Indivisible agenda. But falling for an argument over whether voter fraud exists is sure to redound to Trump's benefit. Don't get taken in.
5
I have studied republican strategies and tactics in their goal to become a permanent majority party. The primary tactics are:
1. Get money into politics. Started with Grover Norquist, Ralph Reed, Tom Delay and Gringrich. It was called the K Street project.
2. Suppress and destroy institutions that support democrats such as unions, universities.
3. Suppress access to voting for democratic leaning groups by disinformation campaigns, onerous voter id laws, restricting voting times, limit voting places in certain neighborhoods, and gerrymander districts.
4, Engage in libelous disinformation campaigns against democratic candidates and democratic issues. Use Frank Luntz doublespeak.
How do we fights these efforts. Support the League of Women voters and fight back at the local and state level.
Should Trump do a study and republicans try to make sweeping changes on the national level, beware. They will not be more democratic and the voting franchise will be further restricted. This is not conjecture and information on these tactics can be found in many sources. .
1. Get money into politics. Started with Grover Norquist, Ralph Reed, Tom Delay and Gringrich. It was called the K Street project.
2. Suppress and destroy institutions that support democrats such as unions, universities.
3. Suppress access to voting for democratic leaning groups by disinformation campaigns, onerous voter id laws, restricting voting times, limit voting places in certain neighborhoods, and gerrymander districts.
4, Engage in libelous disinformation campaigns against democratic candidates and democratic issues. Use Frank Luntz doublespeak.
How do we fights these efforts. Support the League of Women voters and fight back at the local and state level.
Should Trump do a study and republicans try to make sweeping changes on the national level, beware. They will not be more democratic and the voting franchise will be further restricted. This is not conjecture and information on these tactics can be found in many sources. .
7
1. There's always been money in politics. If you'll recall, Hillary spent double what Trump did and lost
2. Public sector unions are doing fine and are the largest political contributors in the US. You have to be joking about suppressed universities.
3. I always laugh about the canard of restricted voting times and limited voting places. The supposed Democratic voters being "suppressed" all live in jurisdictions where Democrats control the voting apparatus
4. Democrats never engage in libelous disininformation campaigns or similar dirty dealings. Like how Obama was elected senator because he got a judge to illegally release his opponents divorce records
2. Public sector unions are doing fine and are the largest political contributors in the US. You have to be joking about suppressed universities.
3. I always laugh about the canard of restricted voting times and limited voting places. The supposed Democratic voters being "suppressed" all live in jurisdictions where Democrats control the voting apparatus
4. Democrats never engage in libelous disininformation campaigns or similar dirty dealings. Like how Obama was elected senator because he got a judge to illegally release his opponents divorce records
5
I mean this is all so insane (a winner still questioning the election process, undermining the very democracy he controls, re-tweeting some no-name zealot and giving his crackpot theory credence) on a number of levels but the real question I have is:
If all this "raw data" is so conclusive and detailed, it seems dubious you'd just land at 3,000,000 votes since Trump lost to Clinton by that much. How'd they arrive at 3 million?
I'm also really curious if this "raw data" will show which candidate illegal ballots were cast for. I mean, like everything else in this Trump sh*tstorm of a world we know live in, there are major implications but never actual definitive assertions (read: slander) and clearly they think these illegal votes were all for Clinton. But! Will this "raw data" show that these illegal votes maybe chose Johnson, Stein or, gasp!, Trump?
If all this "raw data" is so conclusive and detailed, it seems dubious you'd just land at 3,000,000 votes since Trump lost to Clinton by that much. How'd they arrive at 3 million?
I'm also really curious if this "raw data" will show which candidate illegal ballots were cast for. I mean, like everything else in this Trump sh*tstorm of a world we know live in, there are major implications but never actual definitive assertions (read: slander) and clearly they think these illegal votes were all for Clinton. But! Will this "raw data" show that these illegal votes maybe chose Johnson, Stein or, gasp!, Trump?
2
And this attempt by trump and his friends to keep minorities from voting is why he must be resisted at all costs. trump and his friends will destroy America. If our governments are elected without legitimacy, then what? Democratic voters are way underrepresented in state legislatures and in Congress due to voting laws.
"In Pennsylvania there are about 900,000 more registered Democrats than registered Republicans. National and statewide elections are competitive. But when you look at the electorate in congressional voting districts, out of 18 seats in the U.S. House of Representatives, Republicans hold 13 and Democrats hold five. " From https://keystonecrossroads.atavist.com/dividing-lines-how-pennsylvanias-...
This pattern is common in red states. So then the question: If a wide class of voters cannot either cast a vote or their vote just doesn't matter due to gerrymandering etc., then what? Are the governments elected by these means legitimate? And if they are not, then what? If (as is likely) trump will appoint fanatical right wing judges who will support this rampant voter fraud, what are our alternatives?
"In Pennsylvania there are about 900,000 more registered Democrats than registered Republicans. National and statewide elections are competitive. But when you look at the electorate in congressional voting districts, out of 18 seats in the U.S. House of Representatives, Republicans hold 13 and Democrats hold five. " From https://keystonecrossroads.atavist.com/dividing-lines-how-pennsylvanias-...
This pattern is common in red states. So then the question: If a wide class of voters cannot either cast a vote or their vote just doesn't matter due to gerrymandering etc., then what? Are the governments elected by these means legitimate? And if they are not, then what? If (as is likely) trump will appoint fanatical right wing judges who will support this rampant voter fraud, what are our alternatives?
5
First and foremost, NYT, this is not a "fantasy" - this is a deliberate, monstrous lie which comes on the heels of Trump's racist lies about President Obama, and the GOTP's nearly 6 decades of attempting to resurrect the Confederacy and gut the right of anyone attempting to vote Democratic from being able to do so. We have an entire party populated by charlatans and power-mad tools who will stoop to any appalling low, in order to install themselves in permanent positions of power. Jim Crow is upon us - and the GOTP's morally bankrupt leadership will not only do nothing to stop this tidal wave, they will be surfing on it in their long-held dream to crush the American government and any opposition to their zeal for power, money, and trampling everyone else in their way. Trump is dangerous and unhinged, and they all know this - yet their lust for power trumps all else. Our Constitution is under assault by the right. 1/28, 11:12 AM
12
The well-deserved praise of Mary Tyler Moore (and especially of "The Mary Tyler Moore Show") after her passing last Wednesday, reminds us that we have seen Donald Trump before in the egotistical, insecure and inept Ted Baxter.
But at least Ted Baxter was funny, had a staff that kept him in more or less in check, and didn't dye his hair or spray-tan his face.
Sad.
But at least Ted Baxter was funny, had a staff that kept him in more or less in check, and didn't dye his hair or spray-tan his face.
Sad.
4
In Trump-world, I imagine there were 65,844,954 fraudulent votes in the election. No real American who deserves the right to vote would have failed to chose someone as magnificent as Donald Trump. All other votes are illegal and should be punished.
8
Isn't it possible that the Social Security Administration send every one on its rolls over 17 a card with a bar code for identification that confirms they are a voter and the SS administration continue to do so when records show a citizen reaches their 18th birthday? Voting places then could scan the bar code and prevent multiple or fraudulent voting as that information would instantly be shared throughout the states. Just a thought.
7
When Jill Stein was litigating her vote recount in the courts Trump's lawyers argues that they found no evidence of voter fraud and therefore a recount was unnecessary. Now Trump is insisting that there was voter fraud and we must investigate. I'm not worried about an investigation. What I am worried about is the country ignoring facts and evidence that does the support their beliefs.
8
Trump has been talking to Kris Kobach, who has been peddling this nonsense in Kansas for years. His tenure as Secretary of State, Kansas' top election official, has resulted in a couple of prosecutions of people who forgot they were registered somewhere else.
On the other hand, there are about 30,000 citizens on a "suspension" list who cannot vote because they are unable to secure the necessary documents. Or they submitted the documents, which were "lost" by Kobach's office. My then 18 year old daughter uploaded her birth certificate to the Secretary of State's website several times before she traveled to the county courthouse to present her documents to the clerk in person. Not everyone has this option or the time and transportation to do it.
And the number of non-citizens accused of voting during Kobach's tenure? Zero.
On the other hand, there are about 30,000 citizens on a "suspension" list who cannot vote because they are unable to secure the necessary documents. Or they submitted the documents, which were "lost" by Kobach's office. My then 18 year old daughter uploaded her birth certificate to the Secretary of State's website several times before she traveled to the county courthouse to present her documents to the clerk in person. Not everyone has this option or the time and transportation to do it.
And the number of non-citizens accused of voting during Kobach's tenure? Zero.
8
The gop have no shame, they have only 2 concerns
1. to hold onto power by any and all means possible
2. enrich the 1% regardless of the welfare of the country.
1. to hold onto power by any and all means possible
2. enrich the 1% regardless of the welfare of the country.
2
This false claim is a prelude to disenfranchise millions of minority voters who usually vote for the democrats so that republicans can perpetuate their rule. Republicans have elected their own dictator who together with his cronies wants to transform the US into a quasi-dictatorship. These efforts should be fought hard by democrats and civil rights advocates otherwise republicans will continue to undermine US democracy.
3
Would a full investigation into the 2016 presidential election include going back to recount the votes in Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio, and Penn.? Be careful of what you wish for, Republicans. You might find the tallies different this time.
4
Well we already know from the Michigan recount that 37% of precincts in Detroit had more votes recorded than actual voters. And you'd be nuts to think those all didn't go to the D side.
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/12/12/records-many-v...
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/12/12/records-many-v...
4
Let Trump do this 'investigation' - it would be a good thing, because it would turn up nothing and make Trump look as stupid as he really is. And it would backfire on Republicans, because it would pull the rug out from under the false claims they use to justify voter suppression.
3
No, it won't turn up nothing. It will turn up exactly what trump wants it to turn up, with whatever language is necessary. Note how, already, people being registered in more than one state (they moved!) has been conflated with voter fraud.
3
It is hard to exclude people from a guaranteed Constitutional rights unless you have a supporters who ignore the obvious outcome of the proposal-voter suppression. Imagine if his supporters had the same suppression applied to gun ownership. Proof of citizenship, proof of residency and costly requirements to even consider buying any sort of weapon. Trump would be impeached in a New York minute.
6
And don't forget proof that you go to a Christian church every Sunday, are not gay, vote the right way on abortion, a veteran, especially if you fought in an unnecessary war overseas, believe in fake news about Democrats getting millions of illegal immigrants to vote for Hillary, and follow our fearless leader's new example and make Putin your new BFF.
3
This is another 'birther' utterance that will gain traction despite no evidence, or even evidence to the contrary.
6
Continuing to beat the same old tired liberal drums is exactly why Democrats are in the worst shape since the 1920's.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again with zero results....
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again with zero results....
4
"Democrats are in the worst shape since the 1920's" because the Electoral College rigged the election in favor of the Republicans. Hillary received almost 2.9 million more votes than Trump for president. Only in America can a presidential candidate win an election with fewer votes than their opponent. We need a constitutional amendment to abolish the Electoral College and elect our president the way it should be done in a democracy; whoever gets the most votes wins. But since that amendment requires 3/4 of the state legislatures to pass, the Republicans will never allow that to happen. Why should they support a change to our constitution when the present constitution stacks elections in their favor. Maybe instead of calling America a representative democracy we could call it a Republican democracy. And if Republicans keep passing voter suppression laws maybe we can even eliminate the democracy part and just call America a Republican country.
3
@ Alan in Michigan: And your point is.....?
3
The writers of this editorial fully understand the foolishness of the Republican myth about voter fraud.
The writers know that the myth is merely a device to excuse the illegal voter suppression which Republicans need in order to compete politically in an increasingly diverse society.
The writers are naïve to think Republicans will be shamed into changing their strategy.
The Republican Party will change its strategy only when it is forced to change. Republicans have no shame, and they have no loyalty to the concept of representative democracy.
This is going to be a long, hard slog for people who believe in fair and free elections
The writers know that the myth is merely a device to excuse the illegal voter suppression which Republicans need in order to compete politically in an increasingly diverse society.
The writers are naïve to think Republicans will be shamed into changing their strategy.
The Republican Party will change its strategy only when it is forced to change. Republicans have no shame, and they have no loyalty to the concept of representative democracy.
This is going to be a long, hard slog for people who believe in fair and free elections
8
The real fantasy is that Donald is president. He's the face and the mouth and the signature, but otherwise is nothing more than a shell. Bannon, Pence, Kushner ..... Listen to Donald and there they are, pouring out in one schizophrenic mess.
That anyone pays any attention at all to someone like Donald proves that some people can't listen unless they get slapped in the face. Threaten them, entertain them, scare them, whatever, but don't try logic, common sense, or provable facts.
Democrats must realize that to counter the likes of Little Donald, they need to find forceful and charismatic leaders. All the good intentions and ability in the world are useless if the person themselves can't connect. Clinton would have won if she wasn't an unlikeable rerun. So we're stuck with an empty nut.
That anyone pays any attention at all to someone like Donald proves that some people can't listen unless they get slapped in the face. Threaten them, entertain them, scare them, whatever, but don't try logic, common sense, or provable facts.
Democrats must realize that to counter the likes of Little Donald, they need to find forceful and charismatic leaders. All the good intentions and ability in the world are useless if the person themselves can't connect. Clinton would have won if she wasn't an unlikeable rerun. So we're stuck with an empty nut.
16
Five years after the Bush administration began a crackdown on voter fraud, the Justice Department has turned up virtually no evidence of any organized effort to skew federal elections, according to court records and interviews.
Although Republican activists have repeatedly said fraud is so widespread that it has corrupted the political process and, possibly, cost the party election victories, about 120 people have been charged and 86 convicted as of last year.
Many of those charged by the Justice Department appear to have mistakenly filled out registration forms or misunderstood eligibility rules, a review of court records and interviews with prosecutors and defense lawyers show.
Although Republican activists have repeatedly said fraud is so widespread that it has corrupted the political process and, possibly, cost the party election victories, about 120 people have been charged and 86 convicted as of last year.
Many of those charged by the Justice Department appear to have mistakenly filled out registration forms or misunderstood eligibility rules, a review of court records and interviews with prosecutors and defense lawyers show.
55
My impression is that many people who see voter fraud as favoring their side refuse to look for the evidence. Nothing to see here, move on, type of attitude. Since this issue arose I've been finding plenty of evidence. A study published Dec 2014 by Richman and Chattha 'Do non-citizens vote in US elections?' said this, "We find that some non-citizens participate in U.S. elections, and that this participation has been large enough to change meaningful election outcomes including Electoral College votes, and Congressional elections. Non-citizen votes likely gave Senate Democrats the pivotal 60th vote needed to overcome filibusters in order to pass health care reform and other Obama administration priorities in the 111th Congress."
5
no proof of citizenship required to vote in oregon
5
Five years after the Bush administration began a crackdown on voter fraud, the Justice Department has turned up virtually no evidence of any organized effort to skew federal elections, according to court records and interviews.
===============
What court records and interviews?
===============
What court records and interviews?
2
It is very obvious that the Republican Party for the most part no longer believes in the tenets of OUR Democracy. They will do whatever it takes to stay in power whether it's claiming massive voter fraud like Don the Con is doing now, creating outrageously designed voting districts to insure they'll get more seats in the House & putting out pure Propaganda on TV - Fox Faux News, Radio - Conservative Talk Radio & Newspapers - NY Post, Washington Times & partly the Wall Street Journal.
The American Public less & less are Not buying what the Republicans are selling & rather than change their policies they have to Cheat to remain in power. The Republican Party likes to refer to themselves as the Party of Lincoln but I'm sure Mr. Lincoln would be Horrified & Ashamed with what this current group of Republicans has done to the Party & their Attack on OUR Democracy.
I'm not sure if Don the Con's motives are the same as the Republican Party, his seem to stem more from a deep psychological Need to have the Most, the Biggest, the Best in every situation. So Moscow Donald is going to base this investigation on the ravings of Gregg Phillips & will be spending OUR tax dollars on this endeavor just because he can.
As for people being on voting rolls in 2 States well I might be because I never contacted New York when I moved to New Mexico & I doubt many people contact voting authorities when someone in their family dies to remove their names & such instances mean Nothing.
The American Public less & less are Not buying what the Republicans are selling & rather than change their policies they have to Cheat to remain in power. The Republican Party likes to refer to themselves as the Party of Lincoln but I'm sure Mr. Lincoln would be Horrified & Ashamed with what this current group of Republicans has done to the Party & their Attack on OUR Democracy.
I'm not sure if Don the Con's motives are the same as the Republican Party, his seem to stem more from a deep psychological Need to have the Most, the Biggest, the Best in every situation. So Moscow Donald is going to base this investigation on the ravings of Gregg Phillips & will be spending OUR tax dollars on this endeavor just because he can.
As for people being on voting rolls in 2 States well I might be because I never contacted New York when I moved to New Mexico & I doubt many people contact voting authorities when someone in their family dies to remove their names & such instances mean Nothing.
6
Wow, what a tiresome subject.
That the President, who won, keeps bringing up voter fraud allegations with no evidence is tiresome and stupid enough. The other aspect of it being tiresome is that we don't solve this -- permanently, once, forever -- by phasing in voter ID.
Do it over TEN YEARS. Make it utterly free for people who don't have a driver license or other government issued ID already. Hire people to drive people with no ID to the DMV or Sheriff's office to obtain an on-the-spot ID. Send social workers out to counsel people who don't know how to establish their citizenship, to photograph them and to make them an ID from a gizmo in the trunk of their car! Make it a national program!!! Make it a state program! Organize charities around it!! But please, solve it.
Children are hungry. We're throwing our foreign relations into utter turmoil. We're vilifying entire religions! We're going to dramatically change health care insurance (again). How can we argue, over and over again, about voter ID when it's so clearly an easily solvable problem?
That the President, who won, keeps bringing up voter fraud allegations with no evidence is tiresome and stupid enough. The other aspect of it being tiresome is that we don't solve this -- permanently, once, forever -- by phasing in voter ID.
Do it over TEN YEARS. Make it utterly free for people who don't have a driver license or other government issued ID already. Hire people to drive people with no ID to the DMV or Sheriff's office to obtain an on-the-spot ID. Send social workers out to counsel people who don't know how to establish their citizenship, to photograph them and to make them an ID from a gizmo in the trunk of their car! Make it a national program!!! Make it a state program! Organize charities around it!! But please, solve it.
Children are hungry. We're throwing our foreign relations into utter turmoil. We're vilifying entire religions! We're going to dramatically change health care insurance (again). How can we argue, over and over again, about voter ID when it's so clearly an easily solvable problem?
61
Its because they don't want to solve it. They can use the charge of voter fraud to put more and more restrictions to voting in place, so that fewer people vote. They do this every time they get in office. The fewer people who do vote, the better the GOP likes it.
5
He has never experience real love in his entire life. So when he wins an election due to an antiquated system, but did not receive the popular vote, he is again experiencing the lack of love he has so often craves. Sex replaces love and hate replaces bravery I his world. Now insulated from the real world, he thrives on us hating each other and loving him. We'll see if Americans are true to the documents we live by, or have we reduced our morality this low moralist now our president.
2
Even if we could make getting voter ID's easy, the Republican Party leadership will oppose it because they know requiring government issued photo ID's is a great way to suppress Democratic votes.
1
Ok, then I assume you have no problem with voter IDs?
5
There's far more to this problem than just obtaining voter IDs.
Read the article.
Read the article.
2
It was the WAY he did it.
The way Trump bullied and lied to Americans over the years will forever cause him to be a severely tainted and illegitimate president, forever causing disrespect and scorn for the current party of Lincoln.
He cannot, and is not, worthy to occupy the house and bedroom of Abraham Lincoln. Simply, historically, will never be worthy to claim a legitimate and respected place in American history.
It was the WAY he did it, and the WAY he WILL continue to do it.
us
The way Trump bullied and lied to Americans over the years will forever cause him to be a severely tainted and illegitimate president, forever causing disrespect and scorn for the current party of Lincoln.
He cannot, and is not, worthy to occupy the house and bedroom of Abraham Lincoln. Simply, historically, will never be worthy to claim a legitimate and respected place in American history.
It was the WAY he did it, and the WAY he WILL continue to do it.
us
55
If voter fraud is so prevalent, as the Trump crowd claims, then why didn't Clinton WIN?
76
The reason is simple. If there was election fraud, the fraud favored Trump and not Clinton.
2
@ David Henry: "If voter fraud is so prevalent, ... then why didn't Clinton WIN?"
Exactly!
Exactly!
1
Even Trump's voter fraud conspiracy theory is insane. His theory works this way: Clinton's people were trying to rig the election, so they got all sorts of illegal aliens to vote in California, a non-swing state that Clinton was going to handily win anyway. Like every other thing Donald Trump does, this theory makes absolutely no sense other than being the sour grapes foot-stomping of a petulant child.
1
So, here's the thing. If millions voted illegally, how many of those might have voted FOR Trump? If the statistical mean held, wouldn't it indicate that Hillary might have gotten perhaps 51% of those "illegal votes?" What I'm saying is, putting aside a criminal conspiracy that involved 3-5 million people (impossible) wouldn't this end up being a zero-sum game anyway, provided those votes didn't overwhelming happen in swing states?
Of course, my problem is that I'm attempting to apply logic in a situation where clearly none exists...
Of course, my problem is that I'm attempting to apply logic in a situation where clearly none exists...
2
The key words embedded within your editorial "BUT FEW ARE CHALLENGING"...Washington is laying on its back and getting steamrolled without an "ouch". The only thought, "reelection."
2
What does one say while watching our government under attack...by our government. We know that the man-child is incapable of dreaming this stuff up. He's too busy watching TV, bragging to folks about his "huge" crowd of admirers, and proving it by pointing to pictures that show the opposite. With an attention span of a newborn cocker spaniel, there is no way that this man is originating the chaos that that is unfolding in Washington and reverberating around the world.
So, who is the marionette causing and relishing the current mayhem? It's Stephen Bannon. His purpose in an interview a couple of years ago, is to completely take down "western government". Let chaos reign...and with the assistance of a child, and the abetting by Ryan, etal, he is rapidly burning bridges, rupturing long-held relationships, and on his way for causing more national and international trouble, than anyone in our recent history.
Well, Ryan, McConnell, and other conservatives, your agenda has been displaced by the madness of a man named Bannon. He got to the kid first, is keeping him busy with bright objects, and the rest of you are becoming irrelevant. Don't even ask what the impotent Democrats are doing.
As Vonnegut would say in Slaughterhouse-Five, whenever someone died..."so it goes".
So, who is the marionette causing and relishing the current mayhem? It's Stephen Bannon. His purpose in an interview a couple of years ago, is to completely take down "western government". Let chaos reign...and with the assistance of a child, and the abetting by Ryan, etal, he is rapidly burning bridges, rupturing long-held relationships, and on his way for causing more national and international trouble, than anyone in our recent history.
Well, Ryan, McConnell, and other conservatives, your agenda has been displaced by the madness of a man named Bannon. He got to the kid first, is keeping him busy with bright objects, and the rest of you are becoming irrelevant. Don't even ask what the impotent Democrats are doing.
As Vonnegut would say in Slaughterhouse-Five, whenever someone died..."so it goes".
2
Trump rarely thinks beyond the here and now. He tosses out ludicrous ideas without a clue that some will require follow up. To wit, he'd never have said diddly about investigating this absurd claim if not for NPR reporter Mara Liasson's schooling Spicer by stating the obvious: Surely a scandal of such proportions has to be investigated. With that, team-Trump knew how foolish he'd look if he didn't back up his foolish claim with actions that should have occurred to him when he first made it.
But it was his embellishment of this absurdity, in the ABC interview, that REALLY requires a follow up. "All those votes went to Hillary" he declared. Now, given the fact that votes are secret, known only to the voter standing in a booth, how exactly does Trump know for WHOM these phantom 3 million voters cast their votes? Could he be getting inside info from Russia by way of Putin's thugs having spied on our voting machines? Inquiring minds want to know. As should our intelligence community.
But it was his embellishment of this absurdity, in the ABC interview, that REALLY requires a follow up. "All those votes went to Hillary" he declared. Now, given the fact that votes are secret, known only to the voter standing in a booth, how exactly does Trump know for WHOM these phantom 3 million voters cast their votes? Could he be getting inside info from Russia by way of Putin's thugs having spied on our voting machines? Inquiring minds want to know. As should our intelligence community.
3
Let's wait for investigation of California and we can than deal with facts. Right now NYT Editorial Drones continue to feed us Fake News.
4
So you think the Democratic fraudsters were brilliant enough to make millions of illegal votes without a trace, but dumb enough to do it in California which is a shoe-in for Democrats anyway? What kind of sense does that make?
This is the logic behind many conspiracy theories. The perpetrators must be simultaneously omnipotent (millions of people and not a single leak!) and incompetent (not making those votes in say, Pennsylvania where it would have made a difference??)
This is the logic behind many conspiracy theories. The perpetrators must be simultaneously omnipotent (millions of people and not a single leak!) and incompetent (not making those votes in say, Pennsylvania where it would have made a difference??)
True, Greg. It is very "logical" that if Hillary had planned to forge votes, she would have done that in a state like California, were she was just about sure to win, rather than doing it in one or the other of the battleground states where she eventually lost. Could she not think of using some of those forged votes in Wisconsin, Michigan, or Pennsylvania?
Do the investigation...maybe Trump lost the election. The most obvious possible voter fraud is conducted by people that own two homes.
If you are wealthy enough to own two residences, the fraud would be easy to accomplish. This would go undetected because there is no national registration.
Own a home in a couple of swing states like Ohio and Florida. Go ahead and vote twice... For Trump? Wouldn't that be YUGE.
If you are wealthy enough to own two residences, the fraud would be easy to accomplish. This would go undetected because there is no national registration.
Own a home in a couple of swing states like Ohio and Florida. Go ahead and vote twice... For Trump? Wouldn't that be YUGE.
3
Voter fraud includes Putin-Trump collusion to take the 2016 election. Some call it treason.
6
Wish I could see an editorial with more "teeth." Is there nothing we can do?
Republicans ashamed? Not in my lifetime.
5
If it is a fantasy - the NY Times should welcome, encourage, cheer a review of the voting process in the US.
2
We have to get this man out of our White House.
7
Reasonable voter ID requirements are not intrinsically racist. Outcome and intent are not the same. If the net effect is to decrease voting by convicted felons so be it.
4
Then remove the obstacles introduced to the acquisition process for those voter IDs!
3
Why not require a national ID, replete with biometric identification markers, such as fingerprints (to prevent identity theft in case of lost or stolen ID), provided free of charge, which would count as a valid ID?
Is it because the proponents of strict voter ID laws looking to depress Democratic voter turnout by imposing a back door poll tax by forcing otherwise eligible U.S. citizen voters to pay for supporting documentation they cannot easily obtain, or cannot get at all?
Is it because the proponents of strict voter ID laws looking to depress Democratic voter turnout by imposing a back door poll tax by forcing otherwise eligible U.S. citizen voters to pay for supporting documentation they cannot easily obtain, or cannot get at all?
1
It's obviously another example of projection by Donald Trump. He knows that he would say and do anything to attain his goals, and he assumes that the American voters would do the same. Therefore, it's perfectly reasonable that the Clinton campaign rounded up millions of brown-skinned non-citizens, provided them with the names of dead voters and those who had moved to different states, drove them to the voting precincts of those former voters, instructed them to vote for Hillary, paid them a hundred bucks each and Uber fare back to their homes. The only flaw in this plan was they only this in New York and California, due to their lack of understanding of the electoral college.
Otherwise, it makes perfect sense.
Otherwise, it makes perfect sense.
2
The extreme alt-right is asking for another inquisition. The clearly bogus, scientifical construct of voter 'fraud' is absurd and moronic in the extreme. These attacks against the right to vote align with trump and his drone army of racist homophobes who serve russian dicktaters whilst attacking the very foundation of modernistic progressivist teachings.
The orange ape and his followers must be deterred from destabilizing the system.
The orange ape and his followers must be deterred from destabilizing the system.
You have heard the phrase: "We've seen this movie before". Well, we really have heard this movie before. And, it was a great, great, great movie titled: "The Caine Mutiny" starring Humphrey Bogart, ably assisted by Hose Fererr, Van Johnson and Fred McMurry. Bogaart played the role of Captain Queeg who commanded the U.S.S. Caine during WW II. Captain Queeg believed a significant amount of strawberries had disappeared and set out to investigate and get to the bottom of the missing strawberries.
This Trump affair is not a movie. This is reality the Celebrity Apprentice live. President
This Trump affair is not a movie. This is reality the Celebrity Apprentice live. President
1
"[Republicans] should be ashamed of undermining the integrity of our system of government by trying to strip away a right Americans have fought for and died to secure."
Republicans have proven for the past 8 years that they are not capable of feeling shame.
Republicans have proven for the past 8 years that they are not capable of feeling shame.
Both parties, and all citizens, should be advocating and pushing for all eligible voters to actually vote, in all elections, national, state, and local. Our biggest problem with voting is that a large minority of voters don't vote.
Talking about voter fraud and worrying about who is actually voting just takes away from this much bigger problem. I'd like to see a national discussion about how we can get more people to vote. There is almost no voter fraud, but there are millions of eligible voters who don't vote. What can we do to get them to vote?
Talking about voter fraud and worrying about who is actually voting just takes away from this much bigger problem. I'd like to see a national discussion about how we can get more people to vote. There is almost no voter fraud, but there are millions of eligible voters who don't vote. What can we do to get them to vote?
41
Engaging in falsehoods as a candidate is one thing, but lying as the president of the United States is something else. Earlier this week, Trump doubled down on his false claim that 3 to 5 million fraudulent votes were cast in the presidential election. If this were a provable fact, his election may itself be in doubt. Trump cannot separate the popular vote from his Electoral College victory by simply asserting that the fraud occurred in states that did not affect the final outcome. As it is, this election has been tainted by Russian interference and if President Trump is now claiming massive voter fraud, his Justice Department needs to appoint a special prosecutor to investigate the matter.
Also, Republicans must realize that pursuing Trump’s every preposterous lie down a rabbit hole is harming our representative democracy. More significantly, voter suppression tactics will always be contested in the courts, which still remain a beacon for equal justice under the law. And hopefully, changing demographics will still prevail over any Trump bias likely to make its mark on our judicial system in the coming years. Republicans, wake up, smell the spices and participate willingly in the natural tanning of America!
Also, Republicans must realize that pursuing Trump’s every preposterous lie down a rabbit hole is harming our representative democracy. More significantly, voter suppression tactics will always be contested in the courts, which still remain a beacon for equal justice under the law. And hopefully, changing demographics will still prevail over any Trump bias likely to make its mark on our judicial system in the coming years. Republicans, wake up, smell the spices and participate willingly in the natural tanning of America!
I think the Trump administration should also investigate how those pictures of his Inaugural were manipulated to show a relatively sparce crowd. Oh that's right he is on that.
5
We recall from our youth a man well ahead of his time named George Orwell analyzed how government officials could control the thinking of everyday people through lies-- and repeating those lies as repetitively as you hear from Mr. Trump and his surrogates.
"George Orwell’s classic dystopian novel, 1984, has suddenly surged to the very top of the Amazon’s bestseller list. Though first published in 1949, it’s back with a vengeance. And George only has the new administration to thank."
http://www.openculture.com/2017/01/george-orwells-1984-is-now-the-1-best...
"George Orwell’s classic dystopian novel, 1984, has suddenly surged to the very top of the Amazon’s bestseller list. Though first published in 1949, it’s back with a vengeance. And George only has the new administration to thank."
http://www.openculture.com/2017/01/george-orwells-1984-is-now-the-1-best...
1
Voter suppression is the real scandal, and GOP operatives have bragged that they are doing that, using that EXACT phrase -- "suppression." Federal courts in various states have held that the voter suppression and gerrymandering led by the GOP -- which has entrenched them in governorships and Congressional districts -- is unconstitutional and biased. We should be marching in the streets to protest the way one of our major political parties -- which now controls all three branches of the national government -- has robbed our fellow citizens of their right to vote.
79
The comments here rightly point out GOP mendacity in taking the opportunity for voter suppression. However, the idea that the GOP is on a losing track based on demographics is something media has been reporting for years yet the have managed to control the entire government, electing a president who lies, promotes conspiracy theories and is likely mentally unstable. The Republican congress has no interest in doing the right thing for the country and is falling in line with Trumps insane fantasies and will spend our tax money on a wall and investigating nonexistent voter fraud. Progressive policies are clearly best for the country but the GOP has done a great job of convincing low information voters to vote against their own best interest. I am in my 70's so I expect I will never see the impact of the claimed demographic changes. Sad.
5
The Republicans should indeed be ashamed, but unfortunately shaming doesn't ever seem to work.
3
"For when the One Great Scorer comes
To mark against your name,
He writes – not that you won or lost –
But how you played the Game."
— Grantland Rice (1880-1954), from his poem "Alumnus Football".
Arguably the last Republican leader who both understood that line and took it to heart was Gerald R. Ford. There is little doubt that he would be aghast at, and infinitely saddened by, what his party has become.
To mark against your name,
He writes – not that you won or lost –
But how you played the Game."
— Grantland Rice (1880-1954), from his poem "Alumnus Football".
Arguably the last Republican leader who both understood that line and took it to heart was Gerald R. Ford. There is little doubt that he would be aghast at, and infinitely saddened by, what his party has become.
1
The true absurdity is the position that this paper has willfully adopted against President Trump. It has set itself on a collision course with POTUS (along with the rest of the universally distrusted legacy media). The strategy appears to be to drum up a case for impeachment. But POTUS's approval rate is climbing inexorably as he moves with dispatch to enact his campaign promises. Who would have thought that the estimable NYT would morph into the "Fox News" of the left. Dismal fate indeed.
4
How is it a "fantasy" when it's been reported that Hillary received an estimated 800,000 votes from people not entitled to vote, whether they be dead or illegal?
We are the ONLY country that does not allow for voter ID for presidential elections. It's only logical, considering we have millions of dead voters on active voter roles, and no voter ID laws, that dead and illegal immigrants are voting.
There is an estimated 30 million illegal aliens residing in America. Think a few of them are voting?
We are the ONLY country that does not allow for voter ID for presidential elections. It's only logical, considering we have millions of dead voters on active voter roles, and no voter ID laws, that dead and illegal immigrants are voting.
There is an estimated 30 million illegal aliens residing in America. Think a few of them are voting?
8
I click on the news in the morning and wonder what fresh hell is at the door.
Hard to pick today's. Voter fraud that even Lindsey Graham has spoken out against? Banning Muslims? A rift with Mexico over a useless, but costly wall? And education Secretary who doesn't believe in public education? A Health and Human Services Secretary who doesn't believe in health and human services?Rick Perry? A chief strategist who feels that truth and reporting are the opposition?
Well, indeed, Trump brings something new to Washington. Who before him undermined every service, while undermining the faith in government. faith in free elections, faith in truth and factual information, and the faith in reporting facts?
The voter fraud fantasy? He never met a conspiracy theory he didn't believe. But it is just a small part of the insane amount of damage he is dealing.
Hard to pick today's. Voter fraud that even Lindsey Graham has spoken out against? Banning Muslims? A rift with Mexico over a useless, but costly wall? And education Secretary who doesn't believe in public education? A Health and Human Services Secretary who doesn't believe in health and human services?Rick Perry? A chief strategist who feels that truth and reporting are the opposition?
Well, indeed, Trump brings something new to Washington. Who before him undermined every service, while undermining the faith in government. faith in free elections, faith in truth and factual information, and the faith in reporting facts?
The voter fraud fantasy? He never met a conspiracy theory he didn't believe. But it is just a small part of the insane amount of damage he is dealing.
4
You're right of course. It's as if everything that's happening is in a scripted KGB plan to bring down the United States. Oh, wait...
Stephen Bannon is the toxin that has run throughout Trump show since August 2016. Bannon sets and makes policy. Bannon controls the media blitzkreigs and the timing. Trump's job is: don't read, don't think and just sign anything put to in front of you and glory in the signing ceremony.
Bannon is in a speed-race to push executive orders and policies at a rate f-a-s-t-e-r than anybody can react and respond to. He's furious with ANY media that observes and comments on him/them and that he doesn't control. A white supremacist efficiency machine to destroy everything in Bannon's path to impose total Fascism as soon as possible on USA.
Republicans are thrilled to stand by and wink while using Trump as the tool for their extremes, profiteering, control and to benefit from Donald's knee-jerk vindictiveness.
Bannon is in a speed-race to push executive orders and policies at a rate f-a-s-t-e-r than anybody can react and respond to. He's furious with ANY media that observes and comments on him/them and that he doesn't control. A white supremacist efficiency machine to destroy everything in Bannon's path to impose total Fascism as soon as possible on USA.
Republicans are thrilled to stand by and wink while using Trump as the tool for their extremes, profiteering, control and to benefit from Donald's knee-jerk vindictiveness.
2
Which is why we must fight the regime now and always. With obvious things like marches, demonstrations, and protests. Peaceful, on video so they cant LIE about it. But, also start organizing into a very large army to take them out if the peaceful ways dont work. They cant call out the army/national guard on us, as doing that is not legal. It wasnt legal at Kent State, and that demonstration was peaceful until THEY started shooting. We have the right to revolt, violently (with a shooting war). The Declaration of Independence says so. In fact it says we have not only the right, we have an obligation to do so. We dont have a right of winning, but millions of armed citizens marching on Washington is not something easily stopped. Remember when you march to not worry about damage to White Trash, their towns, or families. Just sweep them before you.
1
The Times needs to put all of Trump's idiocies on a new Alt Facts Page so that his lies and paranoid meanderings can be condensed and conveniently ignored by those of us who have quickly tired of the media covering him like he is a legitimate leader. He ain't.
Trump should be the focus of a "major investigation!" You can say the same thing about far too many members of the Republican Congress.
4
Trump is a realist who knows that power defines truth. And he's got the power. His realism prescribes that he manipulate the political agenda by creating fictions and applying propaganda (isn't that fake news?).
The voting comments are designed to give Trump the power and states the cover they need to purge the voting rolls of minorities and democrats. It gives them the cover to close polling places and DMV office so people cannot vote or register without taking a whole work day to do it
Here in NJ or when I lived in NY my wait to vote was never more than 10 minutes...I went to my local elementary school or fire department and voted without a line, or harassment.
If you waited more than one hour to vote your voting rights were violated by your state and your county and you should write, call and demand better access to vote and you should do that now
Get your birth certificate today, drivers license, state ID, passport renewed...you are going to need it in the next election
Here in NJ or when I lived in NY my wait to vote was never more than 10 minutes...I went to my local elementary school or fire department and voted without a line, or harassment.
If you waited more than one hour to vote your voting rights were violated by your state and your county and you should write, call and demand better access to vote and you should do that now
Get your birth certificate today, drivers license, state ID, passport renewed...you are going to need it in the next election
71
That is why we need a NATIONAL ID, as the ONLY ID required for voting. Some people (including white people) dont have birth certificates. People born in very rural areas, born at home, midwife never registered the birth (too far to go, no telephones), also during the 60s and early 70s and later many counter culturists purposely did not register their childrens birth. States have been dealing with this for decades now. The whole life of the country for the rural inhabitants. Most of these people are white. Many severely disabled people do not have driver's licenses. In many states they are the only state IDs, some states have Alcohol IDs too, as buying alcohol is more important than anything else in those states. This mishmash is why a NATIONAL ID, based on the passport CARD, not BOOK, is needed NOW. I have both. Carry the card at all times. If any state sets up road blocks to getting one the Federal Marshals should go in and take over the process. Disenfranchising those who attempted to keep any person from obtaining one. The penalties must be severe or repugs will just keep doing it. Fines dont bother them. Maybe for the next hundred years National IDs should be given to all people of color with no proof at all, and every white person should be considered to be trying to register fraudulently. I am white (mostly), and would take this as only fair. Repugs should have IDs taken if found to have ever tried to keep anyone from voting. No more voting for them, or their families.
None of the above are required to vote in Oregon.
2
Lets face it, and I can't believe I'm saying this, but many of Trump's voters are patently racist. If you are not white, then you should not have the same rights as the "real Americans". I hate saying this out loud, but unfortunately, I just look at facts.
13
With a National voting system any one caught attempting to suppress anyone's right to vote would be permenantly disenfranchised, have their National ID revolked (all benefits that would come with it terminated for life, i.e. no SS or Medicare, no unemployment payments. Though the taxes withheld would still be withheld, you would just not get anything for them. Basically it would terminate your citizenship benefits). Only the National ID would allow you to vote anywhere. You choose which state. I would even like to see political parties banned. So, voting would be for the person running, not the party. You would have to vote for both a president and vice president who might not be running together. Time to make this a country, not a group of states who are definitely NOT united. No more states rights. NONE.
When someone wins and claims voter fraud it's not a fantasy. It's a sickness.
15
A simple voter ID, acquired with proof of citizenship, would put all this debate to rest. But the left says no. Wonder why?
9
Not everyone has ID, not even all Republicans. Women have been denied the right to vote because their current ID didn't match a post-marriage name change. Older Americans, who have voted in elections for decades but no longer drive, have been denied the right to vote. And by the way, in Alabama, after requiring photo IDs, the legislature closed DMV offices around the state in and near neighborhoods with majority African American populations. Hmmm, I wonder why?
2
It's not the left, it's Republican governors, who refuse to issue statewide identity cards. I wonder why they do that?
2
About 11% of eligible voters in this country do not have a drivers' license, passport or other "acceptable" photo identification. Most of these people are poor, Black, Latino or elderly. Most of these people traditionally vote Democratic. An article that appeared in the Washington Post last May described Republicans as "giddy" that such restrictions are being imposed more and more in this country.
That's why.
That's why.
I do not understand how you can doubt voter fraud given the number of his family and administration members that are registered to vote in more that one place. Shocking, I say shocking! An expensive voter fraud investigation, a wall to resolve a problem that no longer exists--what has happened to Republican frugality?
1
The NYT is being extremely naive. All the illegals that apply for work at my business have government issued SS cards and drivers licenses. I know because I use E-Verify. They certainly are getting voter cards as well, so if anyone is promoting a lie it's the alt left and the NYT.
It will likely be proven soon.
It will likely be proven soon.
8
Purposely denying American citizens of their right to vote is an act of treason and should be treated as such.
It is almost funny that the current Republican party cannot and will not oppose any stupid thing the Trump says.
"Doth protest too much"
The NY times supported the voter recounts by Jill Stein when there was not even a hint of election fraud
The NY Times supports and has been vocal in calling for investigations into Russian "hacking" of the election, even though there is no hint of proof that voting machines were hacked or that the outcome would have been different.
So now all of a sudden the NY Times is against an investigation into illegal voting when there is proof in all 50 states that there are registration and election irregularities.
What gives?
It seems to me that if Liberals and Democrats (& the NYT is just a propaganda arm of the DNC) is so dead-set against an investigation into Voter fraud, than President Trump must be on to something.
What are Democrats so scared of?
Let's find out.
The NY times supported the voter recounts by Jill Stein when there was not even a hint of election fraud
The NY Times supports and has been vocal in calling for investigations into Russian "hacking" of the election, even though there is no hint of proof that voting machines were hacked or that the outcome would have been different.
So now all of a sudden the NY Times is against an investigation into illegal voting when there is proof in all 50 states that there are registration and election irregularities.
What gives?
It seems to me that if Liberals and Democrats (& the NYT is just a propaganda arm of the DNC) is so dead-set against an investigation into Voter fraud, than President Trump must be on to something.
What are Democrats so scared of?
Let's find out.
10
On to bullying punishing sadistic i crotchety on others sovereignty. On individuals on minorities in religions and soon he will encroach on nations. He is afraid and only feels hate and fear of other. People will die women minorities and he will rob and steal from any person or nation.
This is a threat to our democracy and to the world.
He must be impeached immediately.
This is a threat to our democracy and to the world.
He must be impeached immediately.
But election officials and democrats and republicans alike have already debunked Trump's claims of election fraud so at best his "major investigation" will be a massive waste of taxpayer money and at worst will further disenfrachise minorities and others who the republicans would like to keep out of the voting stations.
There are, in fact, proven irregularities in presidential voting. Due to allocation of electoral college votes, a Wyoming vote counts for nearly 4X a New York vote. In other words, a Wyoming voter gets to cast 4-identical votes for president compared with a New Yorker's one vote.
2
Fraud, fiction or fact it achieves the goal of fear. The nature of fear follows the primal instinct of flight or fight.
Putting aside for a moment the evidence supporting Trump's assertion of voter fraud:
How can an investigation be considered "a real threat to American Democracy"?
If the investigation turns up nothing, doesn't that support American democracy?
How can an investigation be considered "a real threat to American Democracy"?
If the investigation turns up nothing, doesn't that support American democracy?
6
what if they find 800,000 who voted illegally? it would be an interesting finding.
6
People are being told Trump is not a legitimate President. He lost the popular vote, the Russian hackers and people who voted for him a backwards and stupid. Even the 22nd amendment as in obamama would have won. They believe anything that reinforces their hatred of Trump and the Republicans. People believe in what they want to believe. Time to stop believing and figure out what the country needs and stop believing because it ain't necessarily so.
2
Trump is going to do whatever he can to suppress Democratic voter turnout over the next four years. He knows he is hated and that the Democrats will be out to get rid of him and the Republicans in the House and Senate over the next two/four years. This is the first step. Get ready, I am sure there will be other strategies to suppress voter turnout coming our way soon. This is what dictators do to stay in power.
1
To NYT editors, reporters, readers:
Please make immediate and constant demands of the president and the congress to investigate this one issue. Lost in the discussion of GOP motivations to further voter suppression is the underlying fact that allegations of massive voter fraud puts into question the legitimacy of the entire November election, not just the results of the presidential election. If true, we cannot trust any of the results as to newly sworn in senators, House members, governors, state legislators, judges, mayors and down the ballot to the most local candidates, bills, and referendums.
There is no doubt in my mind that the claims of our newly sworn president are outrageous lies to assuage and validate a perilously fragile ego. However, his claims are a direct presidential attack on the foundations of our democratic republic. They are now part of an official record of our government and cannot be let go unresolved or dismissed as delusional fantasy.
Please insist that the claims of massive voter fraud be immediately, vigorously investigated by bipartisan and bicameral committees of Congress, by the Justice department, and by other neutral parties or agencies.
If the claims are confirmed, nullify the election results and conduct a new election. If disproved, demand the president publically acknowledge promulgation of a lie and issue an apology to the American people. In the presidential and congressional record.
Please make immediate and constant demands of the president and the congress to investigate this one issue. Lost in the discussion of GOP motivations to further voter suppression is the underlying fact that allegations of massive voter fraud puts into question the legitimacy of the entire November election, not just the results of the presidential election. If true, we cannot trust any of the results as to newly sworn in senators, House members, governors, state legislators, judges, mayors and down the ballot to the most local candidates, bills, and referendums.
There is no doubt in my mind that the claims of our newly sworn president are outrageous lies to assuage and validate a perilously fragile ego. However, his claims are a direct presidential attack on the foundations of our democratic republic. They are now part of an official record of our government and cannot be let go unresolved or dismissed as delusional fantasy.
Please insist that the claims of massive voter fraud be immediately, vigorously investigated by bipartisan and bicameral committees of Congress, by the Justice department, and by other neutral parties or agencies.
If the claims are confirmed, nullify the election results and conduct a new election. If disproved, demand the president publically acknowledge promulgation of a lie and issue an apology to the American people. In the presidential and congressional record.
2
Many claim that Donald Trump lies. He doesn't. What he does is far worse. He lets delusions gush and stutter from his mouth and then obstinately tries to hammer them into any resistance surrounding him. This man is truly dangerous, but he is not nearly so vile as those Republicans who think they can control him in order to realize their own anti democratic political ends. They have a rude awakening coming.
Republicans may see these measures as a means of staying in power in the face of demographic changes. They should be ashamed of undermining the integrity of our system of government by trying to strip away a right Americans have fought for and died to secure."
Individually and collectively, members of the Republican Party lack shame. Thus, unfortunately, it follows that they are incapable of being ashamed. They are interested only in power, they put party before country and before humanity. They are (to paraphrase Basil Bunting's searing characterization of Ezra Pound) enemies of humanity at large.
I have just finished reading Joseph Ellis's stirring account ("The Quartet: Orchestrating the Second American Revolution, 1783-1789") of the four men who were responsible for replacing the Articles of Confederation with the Constitution. If they, or any of the "founders," came back and saw what the Republican Party has done to this country since 1980, they would never stop throwing up.
Individually and collectively, members of the Republican Party lack shame. Thus, unfortunately, it follows that they are incapable of being ashamed. They are interested only in power, they put party before country and before humanity. They are (to paraphrase Basil Bunting's searing characterization of Ezra Pound) enemies of humanity at large.
I have just finished reading Joseph Ellis's stirring account ("The Quartet: Orchestrating the Second American Revolution, 1783-1789") of the four men who were responsible for replacing the Articles of Confederation with the Constitution. If they, or any of the "founders," came back and saw what the Republican Party has done to this country since 1980, they would never stop throwing up.
Like the wall, which Mexico will not pay for but we shall, why should the entire government follow Trump down the rabbit hole to run after non-existent voter fraud? For those Republicans who believe Trump, how do you square the fact that GOP Secretaries of State across the land--which are the vast majority of states--certify that there is basically no voter fraud in their states? If there were 3-4M illegal votes cast then we would have a major problem; I believe Trump is doing this 1) because his narcissistic ego requires being first in all things, and 2) because it distracts from the real election interference--Russia.
Hearing the list of world leaders, in addition to Putin, that Trump will be speaking with today alone, I fear that global destabilization is nigh. We need to get this man out of office before he starts WWIII with his insults and ignorance.
Congress should pass a law that requires all candidates for the presidency to pass a mental fitness examination.
Hearing the list of world leaders, in addition to Putin, that Trump will be speaking with today alone, I fear that global destabilization is nigh. We need to get this man out of office before he starts WWIII with his insults and ignorance.
Congress should pass a law that requires all candidates for the presidency to pass a mental fitness examination.
1
it would only have taken a small number of fraudulent votes in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Ohio and Michigan to make Donald Trump president. If he knows there was fraud, maybe Hillary Clinton really won the electoral college, too. Although I hope if he knew that he wouldn't be pushing for an investigation, but maybe his concern for showing he won the popular vote overwhelmed his reason..
What concerned people don't seem to get is that the True Believers in Trump Land and the Republican Party simply don't care.
What supporters of Trump do care about is only that Hillary wasn't elected.
The Republican Party could care less what happens to America because they now got their wish for over 20 years to finally run our nation for their own benefit.
What supporters of Trump do care about is only that Hillary wasn't elected.
The Republican Party could care less what happens to America because they now got their wish for over 20 years to finally run our nation for their own benefit.
"Republican officials know the voter fraud claim is an indefensible lie."
That's simply not true...there is indeed evidence that people do vote in defiance of U.S. law. In 2013, a national survey of Hispanics in the U.S. suggested that some Hispanic non-citizens actually DO vote illegally...at least they are registered to vote, anyway:
http://www.mclaughlinonline.com/lib/sitefiles/National_Hispanic_Presenta...
On page 68 (far-right column, under "Citizen"), this poll's crosstabs reveal that 56% of the poll's respondents indicated that they were non-citizens; it further reveals that 13% of those non-citizens indicated that they were registered voters. You must be a U.S. citizen to vote in U.S. elections...yet 13% of the non-citizen respondents to this poll indicated that they were, nevertheless, registered to vote.
Fraudulent voting a "fantasy"?
Hardly.
That's simply not true...there is indeed evidence that people do vote in defiance of U.S. law. In 2013, a national survey of Hispanics in the U.S. suggested that some Hispanic non-citizens actually DO vote illegally...at least they are registered to vote, anyway:
http://www.mclaughlinonline.com/lib/sitefiles/National_Hispanic_Presenta...
On page 68 (far-right column, under "Citizen"), this poll's crosstabs reveal that 56% of the poll's respondents indicated that they were non-citizens; it further reveals that 13% of those non-citizens indicated that they were registered voters. You must be a U.S. citizen to vote in U.S. elections...yet 13% of the non-citizen respondents to this poll indicated that they were, nevertheless, registered to vote.
Fraudulent voting a "fantasy"?
Hardly.
3
You termed that correctly. "far right column."
I am fine with requiring Government ID to prove identity to vote. After all, we do that with firearms, and firearms are protected by the bill of rights.
States should be required to make voting ID requirements at least as restrictive as their ID requirements for firearms purchases.
States should be required to make voting ID requirements at least as restrictive as their ID requirements for firearms purchases.
3
Once voters recognize the fact that Republicans are concerned about voter fraud because they do not include women or minorities American. Most of us have become inured to Republican politicians extolling the wishes of the American people when they dismantle Obamacare, Medicare, Medicaid, public education, the EPA, etc. Most Americans do not want to believe that Republicans really think that only the 1% are Americans. It's true!
Anyone who is not a white male and does not have a few million dollars is a danger and cannot be allowed to vote. If the 99% understood that we could have greater health and prosperity if only we voted for them it would be unfair to the 1% that controls 90% of the total wealth. Wake up. This is real.
Anyone who is not a white male and does not have a few million dollars is a danger and cannot be allowed to vote. If the 99% understood that we could have greater health and prosperity if only we voted for them it would be unfair to the 1% that controls 90% of the total wealth. Wake up. This is real.
1
This is a Republican strategy to retain power. Trump's wild assertions are an opening bid to a negotiation framed around how much "voter fraud" there is, which shifts the discussion away from the truth that it barely exists at all. If Trump can convince the public that there is even moderate fraud, he can enact rules to suppress the vote. Let's not get sucked into debates about the magnitude of the fraud; nearly all claims of fraud are lies.
ONE of the two following claims is verifiable by evidence; that one shows a rational mind at work:
---Clinton could not have won the popular vote by millions;
Therefore, voter fraud skewed the results of the election.
---Clinton received millions more citizens' votes than Trump;
Therefore, Clinton won the popular vote.
The FIRST argument is closed to evidence. It does not come from a reasoning mind. It makes no sense to launch an investigation to show that it is true or false because, clearly, no evidence would convince the person who makes such an argument. The second is open to evidence--for and against its claim of millions more votes. Its premise is verifiable OR falsifiable. Now we can ask, where is the evidence that it is false? But we cannot investigate the claim of the first argument. It is the product of an irrational mind closed to evidence. It is Trump's way of thinking. If we fall into this Trump trap, we loosen our hold on reality, we close our minds to evidence and facts, and truth itself ceases to matter.
---Clinton could not have won the popular vote by millions;
Therefore, voter fraud skewed the results of the election.
---Clinton received millions more citizens' votes than Trump;
Therefore, Clinton won the popular vote.
The FIRST argument is closed to evidence. It does not come from a reasoning mind. It makes no sense to launch an investigation to show that it is true or false because, clearly, no evidence would convince the person who makes such an argument. The second is open to evidence--for and against its claim of millions more votes. Its premise is verifiable OR falsifiable. Now we can ask, where is the evidence that it is false? But we cannot investigate the claim of the first argument. It is the product of an irrational mind closed to evidence. It is Trump's way of thinking. If we fall into this Trump trap, we loosen our hold on reality, we close our minds to evidence and facts, and truth itself ceases to matter.
There is voter fraud that goes on, it's just not to the magnitude alleged by republicans. I favor a formal study to see exactly how much is going on and where, simply because it should not be occurring at all.
4
A thorough and credible investigation of voting in the last election could be very helpful. To be useful, however, it would need to look at voter suppression as well as fraud. All studies to date, say that voter fraud--where some person votes twice or more, votes under another person's name, etc.--is virtually nonexistent. We have no systematic studies of people who are legally entitled to vote and want to vote, but can't because of restrictions. We do know that calling some 12,000 people "felons" when they, in fact, were not in Florida in 2000 was critical, possibly determinate, in putting George W. Bush into the White House. (We know how well that worked out.) I'd love to know how voter restrictions affected this last election. It was very close in critical states were efforts at voter suppression were a matter of record, e.g North Carolina, and outcomes were not predicted from polls--always a red flag. Based on 2000 and 2016, I am pretty sure that if an election is close, Republicans will win it one way or another, and I'd like the details of how it is done.
2
While investigating the 3 million phantom illegal ballots that denied Trump the popular majority (and accounted for by just the margin in California), perhaps the authorities could look into the 80,000 ballots in the battleground states that gave him his electoral college win.
3
After the investigation into voter fraud is completed and reveals that inconsistencies are virtually non-existent, Donald will realize the conspiracy to conceal illegal voters is much greater than he suspected. Instead of 3 to 5 million illegal votes, the totals might be twice what he estimated. Similar to the size of the crowd at the inauguration, much larger than the reported figure or what the photographic evidence revealed. There are facts, but there are also alternative facts.
1
I like to think of three improbable things before breakfast, and order an investigation into one of them by lunch. The people find it so delightfully distracting and this leaves me free to play until tea time.
2
The Republicans have been edging toward exactly the kind of incremental coup to undermine democracy at least since Nixon's Southern strategy but more likely since the end of Reconstruction. After all, under Republican control of the federal government most of the time from 1865 until 1932, the KKK arose, Jim Crow laws flourished, and segregation and discrimination became the real laws of the land. Today, every one of the majority of states under Republican control has taken steps to restrict the franchise or hinder voting; not one has attempted to enlarge the one or facilitate the other. Indeed, the technologies which could enhance voting have been used, as in North Carolina, to degrade it. The party which touted "liberty," small government, less regulation, and state rights is now supporting federal authority to coerce states and cities, and industries and companies, to knuckle under to federal government policies and executive orders--without a word of demurral from Republicans. They prefer bullying to regulating because it exercises authoritarian power, not democratic processes. If there is a concern that some Americans look at other Americans as traitors, perhaps Democrats have good reason; I have yet to hear Republicans just since the election of Trump square their policies, principles, values, and ideals with those of American democracy. "Equality"? "Liberty and justice for all"? "Consent of the governed"?
2
Our men and women spend day after day defending us and some lose their life so we fellow Americans have a free country and the right and privilege of living in this great country. The right to vote has been paid for out of blood.
In order to go on plane, drive a car, have labs drawn at my Kaiser healthcare facility or sometimes cash a check, I need to produce an ID.
Here in Colorado anyone can get one with a few minutes effort. Requiring an ID for the right to vote does not seem like suppression but common sense. In no case has the court ever shown that any minority was refuse the right to obtain a valid ID. If you do not have any way of figuring out for sure who the person requesting to vote is, you must assume they are that person. Fraud is impossible to prove.
Did voter fraud occur in the last election? Just look at Wayne Country in Michigan. The number of votes and voters signed in did not match in many precincts. The recount did not happen in those precincts. Remember Chicago and the Kennedy-Nixon vote? Huge fraud. The outcome was changed on that one.
So if Trump appoints a commission and they show he is wrong, he will look a little foolish. If he is right, your paper will have egg on its face. Searching for truth in the voting booth should not be something we in a free country oppose. The cost is minimal. Are the Dems afraid of the truth?
In order to go on plane, drive a car, have labs drawn at my Kaiser healthcare facility or sometimes cash a check, I need to produce an ID.
Here in Colorado anyone can get one with a few minutes effort. Requiring an ID for the right to vote does not seem like suppression but common sense. In no case has the court ever shown that any minority was refuse the right to obtain a valid ID. If you do not have any way of figuring out for sure who the person requesting to vote is, you must assume they are that person. Fraud is impossible to prove.
Did voter fraud occur in the last election? Just look at Wayne Country in Michigan. The number of votes and voters signed in did not match in many precincts. The recount did not happen in those precincts. Remember Chicago and the Kennedy-Nixon vote? Huge fraud. The outcome was changed on that one.
So if Trump appoints a commission and they show he is wrong, he will look a little foolish. If he is right, your paper will have egg on its face. Searching for truth in the voting booth should not be something we in a free country oppose. The cost is minimal. Are the Dems afraid of the truth?
2
In Detroit (what do YOU know about Detroit?) There are always a scarcity of voting places, a scarcity of machines, and many broken an dysfunctional machines. This is done on purpose, to keep detroiters from casting ballots. The fact that a few precincts had more ballots than voters indicates nothing-- many other precincts couldn't be recounted at all. The state of Michigan is run by a republican machine paid for by the Koch brothers, and they don't want you looking into the various methods of vote suppression they employ in Detroit. Its hilarious that you try to use Detroit to prove vote fraud. It does alright, but not the kind you are looking for.
Well-informed people with a basic reasoning power know that Trump's assertions are neither factually or logically possible.
To believe the claims, you would have to believe that half of the "illegals" voted, that they all voted for one person, and that no official caught them. You would have to believe that these illegal voters, many of whom live in fear of being discovered and deported , chose to risk not only criminal penalties for falsely voting, but discovery and deportation. Moreover, given the distributional fallacy promoted by Trump (i.e. That Clinton's margin of victory came from NY and California)), you would have to believe that the bulk of these illegal voters came from those two states, which suggests not only individual voter fraud but conspiratorial voter fraud.
Trump may be dangerously unstable and willing to believe in alternative facts, but his supporters seem more than willing to go down that rabbit hole with him. Classic folie a deux.
To believe the claims, you would have to believe that half of the "illegals" voted, that they all voted for one person, and that no official caught them. You would have to believe that these illegal voters, many of whom live in fear of being discovered and deported , chose to risk not only criminal penalties for falsely voting, but discovery and deportation. Moreover, given the distributional fallacy promoted by Trump (i.e. That Clinton's margin of victory came from NY and California)), you would have to believe that the bulk of these illegal voters came from those two states, which suggests not only individual voter fraud but conspiratorial voter fraud.
Trump may be dangerously unstable and willing to believe in alternative facts, but his supporters seem more than willing to go down that rabbit hole with him. Classic folie a deux.
18
Trump complained about illegal immigrants voting, but he never said millions of illegals voted. He said there were millions of illegal votes.
2
Here we go again...
If there are votes, doesn't that mean someone actually voted. Your comment makes no sense.
Get ready to have to prove your citizenship in order to vote, even if you were born in the United States and have been registered to vote for decades. And if that is deemed insufficient to keep you and your liberal vote away from the polls for good, get ready to have to prove your racial, ethnic, or religious purity in order to vote. As long as it keeps liberal voters home, no tactic will be out of bounds.
6
The Constitution says only citizens can vote in national election. Why do you object to proving you are eligible to vote?
5
Trump and the GOP know full well there was no voter fraud. This is just more gaslighting; the mere implication that "something's going on" is proof enough for the Trump volk. Get ready for a slew of voter supression laws that will "rig" things in the GOP's favor and stave off, for a while longer, their inevitable slide into irrelevance. They intend to scuttle America before it falls into "enemy" hands.
5
It is so obvious, "Thou protest too much". Voting fraud has been counted on by the left for so many years it's been considered s civil right. Sorry, there really is nothing wrong for honesty for a change, get over it!.
6
Typical illiterate alternative fact response. And we wonder why we are in this nightmare.
4
It is so obvious. "Thou protest too much". Voting fraud has been counted on by the right as an excuse to institute laws (e.g., poll taxes, grandfather clauses, literacy tests, voter id laws) preventing their opponents from voting. For so many years, the right has tried to show true Americans that voting is not a civil right, it's a privilege that should not be shared with certain undesirables.
Sorry, there's nothing wrong with honesty for a change, get over it!
Sorry, there's nothing wrong with honesty for a change, get over it!
1
Vote suppression, used by one party or another since the civil war. The Gaslighting, thats a new tactic. The GOP couldn't get elected dog catcher without either of these.
1
Plenty of evidence during the first week that this is the Putin ver 2.0 administration.
2
As the editorial points out, this is all about voter suppression. The GOP knows they are not going to have enough angry, racist, or zealot white voters, so they have to double-down on suppression.
And you know what, I wouldn't be surprised if it works. I have neighbors who believe the fairy tales about illegal voting and it is impossible to reason with them about it.
And you know what, I wouldn't be surprised if it works. I have neighbors who believe the fairy tales about illegal voting and it is impossible to reason with them about it.
6
whatever the truth about voter fraud -- it should be looked at for some definitive information.
my guess is under a million fraud votes. but wouldn't we want to know?
my guess is under a million fraud votes. but wouldn't we want to know?
1
Tell you what--let's compare the number of fraudulent votes cast for Clinton with the number of people who would have voted for but were either suppressed or intimidated from doing so.
it is working. If it wasn't for gerrymandering and voter suppression, Hillary would be president right now. He won Michigan by @10K votes-- thats a small village worth of people. There were more than that in Detroit that gave up waiting in line for one of the inadequate number of voter machines they always have-- always long lines, and long waits to vote; voter suppression and gerrymandering ARE working.
1
we re going to need a nationwide freedom ride to register voters and massive "get out the vote" campaigns for every election
3
The big deal is government-issued picture ID's. A lot of elderly people and non-drivers don't have them.
1
The republican party is now treasonous. Plain and simple.
get a grip timesfolk, forget the petty stuff, trump's vote-size matters ego, h(r)c's pyrric parade and get behind the investigation (where you may have some useful influence)...all the players, at one time or another, have had something to say about the integrity of the vote, it's hackable, not hackable, the russians did it the russians didn't do it, the leaks did it, the leaks didn't do it...no matter that the leaksed emails, etc., we accurate, the leaking was a sign of vulnerability....so fix it!
whatever one thinks of trump, we need to keep an eye on the entire process and examine all possible weaknesses from the cyber to the stenographic...
this is where a wall might help.
we need to frame processes for protection in a (new!) federalized system, no more local machines and means of tabulation...let locals keep their quaint devices for local elections if they choose, but there should be a foolproof one-way for casting each vote when the election is national, when we, all of us, elect a president and vice president.
so...let the ulteriors distract the distractable, let trump be trump, but recall, there were complaints, from all points of view, about the integrity of the system, now's the time to button it up so that we can trust it in the future.
whatever one thinks of trump, we need to keep an eye on the entire process and examine all possible weaknesses from the cyber to the stenographic...
this is where a wall might help.
we need to frame processes for protection in a (new!) federalized system, no more local machines and means of tabulation...let locals keep their quaint devices for local elections if they choose, but there should be a foolproof one-way for casting each vote when the election is national, when we, all of us, elect a president and vice president.
so...let the ulteriors distract the distractable, let trump be trump, but recall, there were complaints, from all points of view, about the integrity of the system, now's the time to button it up so that we can trust it in the future.
3
"so...let the ulteriors distract the distractable, let trump be trump, but recall, there were complaints, from all points of view, about the integrity of the system, now's the time to button it up so that we can trust it in the future."
exactly. why are so many against doing some research in this area? my guess is under a million fraud votes. but wouldn't we want to know?
exactly. why are so many against doing some research in this area? my guess is under a million fraud votes. but wouldn't we want to know?
1
Between claiming news media as "the most dishonest people on earth" or "massive voter fraud," this is relentless self-serving hyperbole.
Spin. Manipulate. Control. Distort. Rinse and Repeat.
Any notion of widespread fraud has been widely rejected.
But this president has obsessive thoughts that he is "compelled" to share.
He's going on anecdotes with absolutely no evidence:
A story he heard from some golfer who said someone told him about people who didn't look the part of what a voter should look like. As if voting is like casting a reality television show.
And yes, we find out his inner circle has multiple state voter registrations.
Can we get through 4 years of fake outrage, made up facts, a guy who listens to anyone's whispers as true? Who jumps to conclusions from watching Fox News?
As one of his aides confided, he “gets bored and likes to watch TV, and aides have to push back privately against his worst impulses in the White House.”
They've described his white house and his campaign as a chaotic cage match.
It's worrying when insiders are already sounding the alarm bells, as Paul Ryan and other Republicans pretend everything is fine and dandy. Then we find out differently from leaked tapes of their meeting: This is a gigantic disaster.
Spin. Manipulate. Control. Distort. Rinse and Repeat.
Any notion of widespread fraud has been widely rejected.
But this president has obsessive thoughts that he is "compelled" to share.
He's going on anecdotes with absolutely no evidence:
A story he heard from some golfer who said someone told him about people who didn't look the part of what a voter should look like. As if voting is like casting a reality television show.
And yes, we find out his inner circle has multiple state voter registrations.
Can we get through 4 years of fake outrage, made up facts, a guy who listens to anyone's whispers as true? Who jumps to conclusions from watching Fox News?
As one of his aides confided, he “gets bored and likes to watch TV, and aides have to push back privately against his worst impulses in the White House.”
They've described his white house and his campaign as a chaotic cage match.
It's worrying when insiders are already sounding the alarm bells, as Paul Ryan and other Republicans pretend everything is fine and dandy. Then we find out differently from leaked tapes of their meeting: This is a gigantic disaster.
3
notion of widespread fraud is widely rejected -- but they're is not a lot of data. why not look?
my guess is they find under a million illegal votes. but that is good to know, no?
my guess is they find under a million illegal votes. but that is good to know, no?
1
He is playing 3 card monte with us. It's all about the taxes. We need to see both books. Then this nightmare will start to come to an end.
Americans can tolerate a big liar who promises to wave a magic wand. But nobody likes a card cheat. Not a sleight-of-hander who gets caught in a real-life game. Especially the shills. When they're in danger of being caged themselves, some of the canaries will start to sing.
People keep saying we have to do such-and-such for "the next four years." Will it really take that long to have enough red-handed tax cheating for an impeachment? You don't have to get him on every hundred million dollars.
One of his heroes must be Al Capone. For his business smarts.
This guy has constructed a house of cards and presented it to the IRS as an unshakable fortress. Let's all take a deep breath until this blows over.
I love the IRS. Tremendous organization. Really special people.
Americans can tolerate a big liar who promises to wave a magic wand. But nobody likes a card cheat. Not a sleight-of-hander who gets caught in a real-life game. Especially the shills. When they're in danger of being caged themselves, some of the canaries will start to sing.
People keep saying we have to do such-and-such for "the next four years." Will it really take that long to have enough red-handed tax cheating for an impeachment? You don't have to get him on every hundred million dollars.
One of his heroes must be Al Capone. For his business smarts.
This guy has constructed a house of cards and presented it to the IRS as an unshakable fortress. Let's all take a deep breath until this blows over.
I love the IRS. Tremendous organization. Really special people.
2
Dump is not the legitimate president and he proves it each and every day. Instead of reacting to his temper tantrums I suggest the NYT bring forth his illegal activities and his attempts to destroy our great land. WIth facts in hand when the opposing party takes control after the 2018 elections then they can move swiftly to impeach him using the evidence that NYT collects over the next two years. It will require several terabytes of storage as we know he is a degenerate liar and fraudster.
3
"If So and So told you to go jump in the lake..." my mother use to say when the
reason for wanting permission to do something ridiculous was presented to her
as "So and So" wanted me to. Donald Trump's suggestions for national
behavior have reached the point of asking or telling everybody to go
to that lake and jump in.
reason for wanting permission to do something ridiculous was presented to her
as "So and So" wanted me to. Donald Trump's suggestions for national
behavior have reached the point of asking or telling everybody to go
to that lake and jump in.
1
But they would gladly jump to their deaths rather than see through Trump's phony promises to "Make America Great Again" because he's made them "Feel Good About Themselves Again".
“You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts,” said Daniel Patrick Moynihan.
Trump doesn't believe in what Moynihan said, but unfortunately believes in many absurd things.
Trump is an insecure person who believes that he'd have got more votes than Mrs. Clinton were it not for the "illegal" votes, he had the most people at his inauguration, he went to the best school, he has the biggest hands and so on.
Unfortunately, he now holds the power to "prove" some of these things. The efforts to "prove" the illegal vote is one of those things.
There was a report that he personally called the National Park Service to get different pictures to "prove" that he had more people at his inauguration than Obama did. He had also ordered his press secretary to chastise the press corps about getting the crowd size estimate wrong.
What is scary is this man has control of our nuclear weapons.
I'd like to the NY Times editorial board to support the bill introduced by Rep. Ted W. Lieu and Sen. Edward J. Markey that'd forbid the president from launching a nuclear strike without first having Congress declare war.
That seems like a sensible control to prevent crazy decisions about nuclear war by crazy presidents.
Trump doesn't believe in what Moynihan said, but unfortunately believes in many absurd things.
Trump is an insecure person who believes that he'd have got more votes than Mrs. Clinton were it not for the "illegal" votes, he had the most people at his inauguration, he went to the best school, he has the biggest hands and so on.
Unfortunately, he now holds the power to "prove" some of these things. The efforts to "prove" the illegal vote is one of those things.
There was a report that he personally called the National Park Service to get different pictures to "prove" that he had more people at his inauguration than Obama did. He had also ordered his press secretary to chastise the press corps about getting the crowd size estimate wrong.
What is scary is this man has control of our nuclear weapons.
I'd like to the NY Times editorial board to support the bill introduced by Rep. Ted W. Lieu and Sen. Edward J. Markey that'd forbid the president from launching a nuclear strike without first having Congress declare war.
That seems like a sensible control to prevent crazy decisions about nuclear war by crazy presidents.
4
studying voter fraud needs to be done objectively. but, it is a topic we have all talked about for a long time. might as well study it.
2
This is just another case of "president" trump doing all he can to prove he is right and the all time winner. He can really care less who gets hurt in the process. The same is true for the wall, deportation, immigration ban, Obamacare. We all must learn that you can not apply civilized norms to what he does.
1
I put the voter fraud histeria into the same bucket as the stupid stories about Trump removing Martin Luther King's bust from the White House (which many ignorant sanctimonious liberals on this site still believe.). These items are no-news news. Let's focus on bigger issues like healthcare, foreign policy, taxes etc.
3
if, as in the past, efforts to 'expose voter fraud' turn into efforts to keep brown people from voting, then it is a big deal.
We've elected the most mentally ill individual ever to hold office. Even Nixon pales in comparison. He'll do his best to rewrite history. Sometimes you repeat the same lies over and over and eventually it becomes the new truth.
5
1984 is no longer fiction.
Voting for a fraud and fraudulent voting might be the point of confusion for Mr. Trump's tweeter-like mind.
5
The assertion that Mr. Sessions is going to abandon the voters rights act is absurd nonsense and fear mongering. Investigation into voter fraud need only focus on 4 Counties, Los Angeles, Miami-Dade, New York and Las Vegas. If voter fraud, I.E. non-citizens voting, is not found in those counties then it is not going to be found anywhere.
4
The place to start is among Trump's family and entourage. Jared, Ivanka and Steve Bannon all have duplicate registrations in New York, Pennsylvania and Florida. And that's just what we know so far! It's possible that it was those three who were the leaders of the massive fraud that Trump suspects.
a fair point - i don't know why everyone is against doing any fact finding here. this is a small study by federal standards. it's a topic we have talked about for months. let's find out what is going on.
2
Voter fraud efforts will soon give way to voter licensing efforts with only republicans getting licenses.
5
Why is it that every time a republican is in the WH, there's dire need to construct barriers on our southern border? We did this with GWBush, building that massive fence designed to withstand the forces of evil...we employ thousands of patrol officers, drones and cameras, all to "keep us safe". But, it's evidently not enough, b/c now we need a wall, I wonder if the wall will be on the north or south side of the fence? Perhaps that moat with the alligators could sit between the two...
If there are any democrats left in DC who can still speak for those they work for, stop this! What an insane waste of tax dollars, both the wall and an investigation into a non existent voter fraud problem. Will we really spend billions just to appease Trumps ego?
Under republican leadership, this country has gone crazy.....
If there are any democrats left in DC who can still speak for those they work for, stop this! What an insane waste of tax dollars, both the wall and an investigation into a non existent voter fraud problem. Will we really spend billions just to appease Trumps ego?
Under republican leadership, this country has gone crazy.....
9
Obama, and Clinton both voted FOR the wall.
1
When Trump first asserted that millions of people voted illegally last November, the New York Times demanded he provide evidence. Now it opposes an investigation that might provide the evidence it demanded.
9
The burden of proof is on the one who makes the allegation of fraud. 'Innocent until proven guilty' is still a cardinal principle of our justice system. Where IS the evidence that WARRANTS an investigation? If we abandon our core principle of justice, watch out! Officials who do not like your words will have the power to punish you for them.
1
let them investigate. If it is an honest investigation and it turns up more evidence of voter suppression than voter fraud, will the Trump admin admit that and fix it, or will they seek more voter suppression? This is not a concern about people who are not supposed to be voting who are are voting; it is their concern about people who are entitled to vote, but teh GOP doesn't want them to. Cheat to Win= GOP tactics
I'm fine with the investigation. I guess the fiscally conservative party wasting money on another inquisition is just a reality these days but the real question is this: will the right believe the evidence if it says zero voting for road happens or will they close their ears and ignore it like they already do with every study that says it doesn't exist. My guess is they will not change their view because evidence and facts do not Trump belief in the right.
Wow! The Clinton campaign was just brilliant! They got all these millions of 'illegals', brown people (WHATEVER!), to come out of the woodwork where they were hiding from authorities, and then managed to get them to vote lockstep for Hillary. Every single one of them. Source: secret Orwell, er, Trump Administration truth squad.
It's alternatively factually true! How could anybody doubt that, especially coming from Trump's folks who are fairly consistent with their ratings for truthiness, according to national fact-checking websites? Trump tells the whole truth a whopping 4% of the time! With those kind of numbers the media should just shut up and maybe they'd learn something? Why live a life of doubt for the next 4 years. That would be sad.
The only minor detail in this great Pied Piper poll parade of alternative voters that I'd work on, if I was a Democratic strategist in 2020, is to spread those fabulously fraudulent voters outside of California and New York, to those little inconsequential states like Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Florida.
Now that the Dems have proven they can mobilize millions of voters at such a high rate, they can take the next step by motivating and mobilizing all those 90 million lazy, citizen, registered voters who didn't vote in 2016 in time to vote in 2020. Make that 2018. Better hurry. The GOP voter suppression machine never sleeps.
It's alternatively factually true! How could anybody doubt that, especially coming from Trump's folks who are fairly consistent with their ratings for truthiness, according to national fact-checking websites? Trump tells the whole truth a whopping 4% of the time! With those kind of numbers the media should just shut up and maybe they'd learn something? Why live a life of doubt for the next 4 years. That would be sad.
The only minor detail in this great Pied Piper poll parade of alternative voters that I'd work on, if I was a Democratic strategist in 2020, is to spread those fabulously fraudulent voters outside of California and New York, to those little inconsequential states like Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Florida.
Now that the Dems have proven they can mobilize millions of voters at such a high rate, they can take the next step by motivating and mobilizing all those 90 million lazy, citizen, registered voters who didn't vote in 2016 in time to vote in 2020. Make that 2018. Better hurry. The GOP voter suppression machine never sleeps.
8
here in the flyover, inconsequential states, we would just like the gerrymandering and voter supression fixed...that would go a long way
4
Mr. Trump, at your inauguration you said you were giving the government back to the people. This person wants you to abandon this useless exercise of proving voter fraud. It will be a serious waste of taxpayer dollars.
You won the presidency, now govern.
Alternately, a good use of our taxes would be investigations into voter suppression and gerrymandering. That stuff really happens!
You won the presidency, now govern.
Alternately, a good use of our taxes would be investigations into voter suppression and gerrymandering. That stuff really happens!
13
He has no interest in giving anything back to the people. He is interested in showing the dim witted rubes who voted for him that he can honor the fantasy policies he campaigned on and burn our tax dollars and eventually destroy the economy.
1
The cry of "voter fraud" is the last refuge of he or she who lost the election.
It is similar to the non-call of pass interference in a football game.
It is similar to the non-call of pass interference in a football game.
4
Then why is it Trump and the Republicans who are crying "voter fraud"?
2
The evidence could not be more clear about the need to administer elections for federal office at the federal level and not at the state level. Voting laws and procedures need to be consistent across the states, from both an ethical and constitutional perspective. It is anarchy for individual states to pick and choose how they want to institutionalize discriminatory practices against their voters. And it is unconscionable that some unenlightened states choose to repress votes from any American. Democracy is based on each citizen's vote, not on the regressive autocracy of a political regime desperate to remain relevant.
14
There is something strange in the explanation of the voting resuls. Trump won decisively, yet lost in the "favorites" votes. The president is correct to demand a review of the favorites votes.
"Republicans may see these measures as a means of staying in power in the face of demographic changes. They should be ashamed of undermining the integrity of our system of government....."
Republicans have lost the capacity to feel shame. Exhibit A: President Donald J. Trump.
Republicans have lost the capacity to feel shame. Exhibit A: President Donald J. Trump.
1
How does Trump know all the alleged illegal voters voted against him?
Wouldn't massive voter fraud, if somehow proven, invalidate the results of the election that he claims to have won so bigly?
It is beyond bizarre that the person who won the office is the one claiming voter fraud.
Wouldn't massive voter fraud, if somehow proven, invalidate the results of the election that he claims to have won so bigly?
It is beyond bizarre that the person who won the office is the one claiming voter fraud.
3
Government by fantasy and whim, all to create fear and repression.
The goal is also to distract. The billionaires want to loot the treasure, sell off public lands, and destroy Social Security/Medicare.
Be afraid, be very afraid.
The goal is also to distract. The billionaires want to loot the treasure, sell off public lands, and destroy Social Security/Medicare.
Be afraid, be very afraid.
1
My heart aches at the thought of Trump committing so many of our national resources to the pursuit of his fantasies. He will stop at nothing to recreate America in his own depraved image.
How are we letting all this happen?
How have the pillars of liberal democracy turned to sand in such a short time?
What can we do to stop this accelerating slide into chaos?
It may be too late already but if the US tax payer must pay millions for an investigation into a problem that doesn't exist, it's time for the members of Congress to push back and blow the whistle. Or are our 'representatives' so self-concerned that they won't risk any effort to stop the wreck.
How have the pillars of liberal democracy turned to sand in such a short time?
What can we do to stop this accelerating slide into chaos?
It may be too late already but if the US tax payer must pay millions for an investigation into a problem that doesn't exist, it's time for the members of Congress to push back and blow the whistle. Or are our 'representatives' so self-concerned that they won't risk any effort to stop the wreck.
I do know this: no government will prevent me from voting, which is the aim of the Trump crowd.
This is where the rubber meets the road. How dare they?
The gall!
Resist because these are bad people, and its enablers are collaborators, betrayers.
This is where the rubber meets the road. How dare they?
The gall!
Resist because these are bad people, and its enablers are collaborators, betrayers.
3
Voter fraud in the USA in the 2016 presidential election is not a fantasy it is nonsense that does not need to go on. Hillary won the popular vote and Trump won the electoral college and that is that . Just move on.
1
Please quite using euphemisms for false statements by Trump and his minions-they are lies. Plain simple lies. These people lie intentionally and they spout off without regard for the facts or even caring about them.
1
Trump says he wants an investigation of election fraud. Great. If he gets an honest analysis, it will disprove his theory of fraud.
So in the Trump and GOP world, if you don't vote for us then you shouldn't be allowed to vote...
Trump continues to demonstrate the traits of some sort of personality disorder where he cannot see or accept the world as it is and attempts to project his version ( a delusional fantasy) into view and now public policy.
It's bad enough that the GOP has fostered laws upon based on mere innuendo or ideological belief. Now, coupled with a delusional fool that peddles in fraud, lies and conspiracies, I fear more for our country now more than ever in my 5 decades.
Trump continues to demonstrate the traits of some sort of personality disorder where he cannot see or accept the world as it is and attempts to project his version ( a delusional fantasy) into view and now public policy.
It's bad enough that the GOP has fostered laws upon based on mere innuendo or ideological belief. Now, coupled with a delusional fool that peddles in fraud, lies and conspiracies, I fear more for our country now more than ever in my 5 decades.
Republicans are not going to stop from trying to restrict access to voting by non-white Christians simply because demographic change will eventually result in their becoming a minority in all buy a few places. They will go to any length to accomplish this because for them, it is the end of their country as they see it - a beacon of white Christian privilege.
Crony capitalism. The new American democracy. How better to have your way when the citizens who don't agree with you become invisible?
I can see why Donald and his crew wish to suppress scientific research and teachings. It's a nuisance to their agenda. Little Donald wants us to all become part of his fantasy world where he is the all-powerful and adored supreme being, one who is tolerant enough to give his cronies - and only his cronies - license to indulge themselves in their favorite hobbies. Most of these hobbies involve inflicting their personal views on the masses, and all involve vast sums on money.
So how do we fight this monster? How do we help the disenfranchised voters who for one reason or another lack government photo ID's have their voices heard? I'd like to help, but don't know how.
I can see why Donald and his crew wish to suppress scientific research and teachings. It's a nuisance to their agenda. Little Donald wants us to all become part of his fantasy world where he is the all-powerful and adored supreme being, one who is tolerant enough to give his cronies - and only his cronies - license to indulge themselves in their favorite hobbies. Most of these hobbies involve inflicting their personal views on the masses, and all involve vast sums on money.
So how do we fight this monster? How do we help the disenfranchised voters who for one reason or another lack government photo ID's have their voices heard? I'd like to help, but don't know how.
1
The new American pastime. Gaming the system!
Have we sunk this low? Yes, appears to be the answer.
This brave new American ethic, if unbridled, will lead us into a distopian future where the ends justify the means and vote denial and stealing are accepted as the virtues needed by the weak and ugly to prevail finally over the strong and proud citizens that once we were.
Have we sunk this low? Yes, appears to be the answer.
This brave new American ethic, if unbridled, will lead us into a distopian future where the ends justify the means and vote denial and stealing are accepted as the virtues needed by the weak and ugly to prevail finally over the strong and proud citizens that once we were.
"...Republicans may see these measures as a means of staying in power in the face of demographic changes. They should be ashamed of undermining the integrity of our system of government by trying to strip away a right Americans have fought for and died to secure...."
But Republicans have no shame. All they want is power, and shame has no place in the equation. This country is becoming less democratic, with a small "d", as Republicans continue their decades long war on democracy.
But Republicans have no shame. All they want is power, and shame has no place in the equation. This country is becoming less democratic, with a small "d", as Republicans continue their decades long war on democracy.
Sorry but I disagree with the idea that requiring a national photo ID card would have an onerous impact. Why don't Democrats call Trump's bluff and switch positions by leading a massive registration drive for all eligible voters to have ID's by November 2018. Folks need something real to do that will have a societal result.
3
If you're middle class, producing a government issued photo ID(aka driver's license) is no big deal. Most already have one anyway. But many who are poor, disabled, or a recent immigrant and English is not their first language, don't own a car. And that's not counting many college students and people living in cities with good public transit, like Boston or New York, who choose not to own a car and also do not possess a driver's license. I had a friend who wanted to get a picture ID for their daughter. To get the ID they either had to pay $36 for a birth certificate to be mailed to them or take time off from work to go in person and pay $18. If you're poor, both options are a serious obstacle to voting. I had another friend, who was homeless, and asked me to help them get an ID. Since he now lives outside of the state where he was born he had to go online to request a birth certificate. I offered to pay the $40 fee f0r him, since he had no income. In order to get an ID he needed a birth certificate, but in order to get a birth certificate they said we had to fax a copy of his ID! Voting should be easy to encourage more people to vote, instead of having Republicans creating obstacles to voting for poor people, the disabled, recent immigrants and young people who tend to vote Democratic.
1
"They should be ashamed of undermining the integrity of our system of government by trying to strip away a right Americans have fought for and died to secure."
That's assuming Republicans are capable of feeling shame, but they aren't. They are scared to death of Trump. They publicly pretend to ignore or, at best, minimize what the POTUS says, but privately - I'm assuming, since they are human - they fret over the ignorance, bombast and irrationality exhibited by him on a daily basis. They are cowards, the whole bunch of them. What will happen? We'll get our "investigation" (the GOP has congress) with a pre-ordained result that will yield attempts to corrode voter rights even further. After all, an ignorant bigot sits atop the DOJ. And the whole cabal better get going because the 2018 election isn't that far off.
That's assuming Republicans are capable of feeling shame, but they aren't. They are scared to death of Trump. They publicly pretend to ignore or, at best, minimize what the POTUS says, but privately - I'm assuming, since they are human - they fret over the ignorance, bombast and irrationality exhibited by him on a daily basis. They are cowards, the whole bunch of them. What will happen? We'll get our "investigation" (the GOP has congress) with a pre-ordained result that will yield attempts to corrode voter rights even further. After all, an ignorant bigot sits atop the DOJ. And the whole cabal better get going because the 2018 election isn't that far off.
Trump's claims on the scale of voter fraud/illegal alien voting are, like most Trump pronouncements, exaggerated for effect but so is the certainty of the denials and dismissals. Trump is sensitive to ongoing attempts to undermine and delegitimize his presidency. How many times will we hear how Hillary won the popular vote and people showed up for the woman's march than the inauguration? Demographics explain both. Clinton won California by over 4 million votes and NY by nearly 2 million. She won the popular vote by just under 3 million. It's fair to say the most of the votes in both states are totally legit. Did some illegal aliens vote in CA? Who would know one way or the other? Who is more likely to travel to DC rural working class Trump supporters or urban/metro politically active professionals?
2
The most unsettling thing about this fraudulent fable of voter fraud is the normalization of the new principle, "guilty until proven innocent." We seem gradually to be accepting such a distortion of our traditional justice standard, acceding to an authoritarian President who throws outlandishly unfounded allegations against the wall and then sicking the dogs of his own Justice Department to "investigate."
Any guesses as to what a Jeff Sessions-led inquiry might find?
www.endthemadnessnow.org
Any guesses as to what a Jeff Sessions-led inquiry might find?
www.endthemadnessnow.org
3
The editorial says Republicans "should be ashamed of undermining the integrity of our system of government." That is a vain desire because the Republicans have shown over the last decade that they simply have no shame. All they have is an overriding lust for power and will do anything to stay in power.
3
Representative Barbara Lee of California states that accusations of voter fraud “is about not honoring and recognizing demographic change.” However, in Texas, which is undergoing demographic change, complaints of voter fraud seem to be most prevalent in Democratic primaries where Hispanic candidates accuse each other of voter registration fraud in borderland districts where most Democrats run unopposed in the general election. I suspect the same situation exists in California.
2
Here is reality. A few days before the election here is a question to and response from President Obama which seems relevant to this discussion:
Gina Rodriguez: “Many of the Millennials, Dreamers, undocumented citizens, and I call them citizens because they contribute to this country, are fearful of voting. So if I vote will immigration know where I live? Will they come for my family and deport us?”
President Obama: “Not true. And the reason is, first of all, when you vote you are a citizen yourself and there is not a situation where the voting rolls somehow are transferred over and people start investigating, etc. The sanctity of the vote is strictly confidential.”
Was the President that inarticulate, or is he expressing what was in fact possible?
Gina Rodriguez: “Many of the Millennials, Dreamers, undocumented citizens, and I call them citizens because they contribute to this country, are fearful of voting. So if I vote will immigration know where I live? Will they come for my family and deport us?”
President Obama: “Not true. And the reason is, first of all, when you vote you are a citizen yourself and there is not a situation where the voting rolls somehow are transferred over and people start investigating, etc. The sanctity of the vote is strictly confidential.”
Was the President that inarticulate, or is he expressing what was in fact possible?
1
I stand with Barbara Lee. This will turn into a Republican voter suppression circus. Women against Trump should begin talking to City, County and State representatives to make sure voter registration rolls are up-to-date and accurate, and in the process get out into the neighborhoods and sign up as many voters as we can. Although the Republicans have funding from the white male oligarchy, women have feet-on-the-ground power. While registering voters we can educate them about the lies being told by Trump and the Republicans. Thank you for this opportunity Trump! We will certainly tell the voters we talk to that the only voter fraud in the last election was Trump's repeated lying, over and over and over.
Hard to understand why anyone would oppose an investigation. Critics charged that the Obama Administration's Justice Department didn't want to find voting problems. Trump's does. Elections have consequences.
Americans deserve to know, and we're certainly not taking the media's or democrats' word for it. These are, after all, the same people that claimed Trump would lose and who happily parroted the Obama Administration's talking points, including its "Lie of the Year."
Americans deserve to know, and we're certainly not taking the media's or democrats' word for it. These are, after all, the same people that claimed Trump would lose and who happily parroted the Obama Administration's talking points, including its "Lie of the Year."
2
Don't blame it all on the media, when it was the majority of Americans thought , no, WANTED Trump to lose.
And with each passing day, he reveals the reason why.
And with each passing day, he reveals the reason why.
To me, Trump asking for a investigation is a gift to the Democrats, if they would see it. I would suggest Pelosi and Schumer draft legislation for a full, independent commission of the highest authority to do a complete report on all voter fraud in all 50 states. Have this commission headed by Presidents Bush and Obama. Bi-partisan, both houses represented.
Use this opportunity to put this nonsense to rest once and for all. Take this GOP talking point for voter suppression away from them.
Use this opportunity to put this nonsense to rest once and for all. Take this GOP talking point for voter suppression away from them.
1
Facts:
We have north of 10 million illegal aliens in this country; of course we don't know how many because they are here...illegally.
We have cities and states that have actively promoted
'sanctuary" and drivers license policies congenial to these groups.
President Obama went on national television to explicitly tell these illegal aliens that NO efforts would be made to detect or prosecute them for voting. (And of course none were.)
No ID check that can verify citizenship is made prior to voting thanks to further assidious Democrat efforts.
And then we are told there is NO evidence of illegal aliens voting.
We have north of 10 million illegal aliens in this country; of course we don't know how many because they are here...illegally.
We have cities and states that have actively promoted
'sanctuary" and drivers license policies congenial to these groups.
President Obama went on national television to explicitly tell these illegal aliens that NO efforts would be made to detect or prosecute them for voting. (And of course none were.)
No ID check that can verify citizenship is made prior to voting thanks to further assidious Democrat efforts.
And then we are told there is NO evidence of illegal aliens voting.
I agree that there's no evidence of any significant voter fraud. But continuing calls for dispensing with sensible ID requirements can only play into the hands of those who spin the voter fraud myths. It is important not only that our elections be honest, but also that they are seen to be so.
1
I would suspect that Trump's dwelling on voter fraud and the launching of an investigation of same is an excuse for eviscerating voter rights, but I don't think that he is anywhere near smart enough for that gambit. I do, however, fear and believe that his party and advisers are planning on taking advantage of his neediness to do exactly that.
And one might add that, for Trump to claim that he would have won the popular vote if it were not for these 3 to 5 millions who allegedly voted fraudulently, all 3 to 5 millions of them would have to have voted for Hillary exclusively, and none for him. Now is this a whopper or not?
In Trump world, no lie is too big.
In Trump world, no lie is too big.
Until we some sort of voter id (such as fingerprints) anything can go on no one could imagine. People are registered in multiple states due to moves and dual home ownership and anything is possible.
1
We have a President who would rather believe a right wing blogging troll than anyone else, including government officials who report to him. I have many questions.
Who led Trump to Phillips?
How could Phillips have supportive date to announce that figure only days after the election?
How could all 3 - 5M votes go to Clinton and how would anyone know?
How does someone orchestrate a massive fraud of that many voters who are all undocumented aliens, who ought to fear being caught, to impersonate people who are dead, no longer residents of that district, or not intending to vote?
How does a sane person believe it?
Has our President lost his sanity?
Who led Trump to Phillips?
How could Phillips have supportive date to announce that figure only days after the election?
How could all 3 - 5M votes go to Clinton and how would anyone know?
How does someone orchestrate a massive fraud of that many voters who are all undocumented aliens, who ought to fear being caught, to impersonate people who are dead, no longer residents of that district, or not intending to vote?
How does a sane person believe it?
Has our President lost his sanity?
1
I believe most reasonable Americans see no harm in requiring an ID to vote. Interestingly enough, the idea has been labeled "voter suppression".
If there is not a hint of voter fraud, then why don't progressives welcome the research to confirm their position?
If there is not a hint of voter fraud, then why don't progressives welcome the research to confirm their position?
The biggest lie yet concocted by our fraudster-in-chief, that of voter fraud he surely knows is his shameful invention...to avoid the appearance of being a loser. That the republican party remains highly hypocritical ought not be a surprise, as it has been trying to find excuses to disenfranchise minorities (i.e. usually not voting for the G.O.P.) for ever, so they won't 'bother' to show up, and vote democratic. Trump, our liar in residence, must not be allowed to get away with this; in fact, made to apologize for peddling such an outrageous big-mouth obscenity. And further, subjecting his cowed enablers to toe the line, against the overwhelming evidence: there was no voting fraud...except in the sick brain of a vainglorious loser.
Trump keeps repeating this lie bolstered by a no-proof conspiracy theory and a misinterpreted report about voter registration. This can only mean one (or more) of three things.
1.) He knows it is a lie and he is putting it forth to deceive and misdirect.
2.) He doesn't know he's lying but he's too dumb to understand the report from Pew research, though it has doubtless been explained to him.
3.) He doesn't know he's lying because he is delusional and divorced from reality. To be blunt, he reminds me a lot of my dad during his slide into Alzheimer's.
They're all bad, so let's pick one and take the steps necessary to rid ourselves of this danger to our democracy.
1.) He knows it is a lie and he is putting it forth to deceive and misdirect.
2.) He doesn't know he's lying but he's too dumb to understand the report from Pew research, though it has doubtless been explained to him.
3.) He doesn't know he's lying because he is delusional and divorced from reality. To be blunt, he reminds me a lot of my dad during his slide into Alzheimer's.
They're all bad, so let's pick one and take the steps necessary to rid ourselves of this danger to our democracy.
Given the Republicans repeated attempts to suppress and oppress voting, if there is ANY illegal voting, it must be revealed.
In SC where I live, some election monitors stand over you while you vote, after you're done voting they press a button that could be trashing my Democratic vote - I would like to see that investigated. In fact, I would like to see a complete investigation of every aspect of voting in every precinct. No price is too high to protect democracy.
Conduct the investigation and If any fraud is uncovered then the American people deserve a new election. And given, the influence that Putin and Comey have had on this election, all the more reason to have a new election. Until this is settled suspend Trumps actions.
"What once seemed like another harebrained claim by a president with little regard for the truth must now be recognized as a real threat to American democracy." It is either a threat or it isn't - time to move this beyond rhetoric and salvage our democracy.
In SC where I live, some election monitors stand over you while you vote, after you're done voting they press a button that could be trashing my Democratic vote - I would like to see that investigated. In fact, I would like to see a complete investigation of every aspect of voting in every precinct. No price is too high to protect democracy.
Conduct the investigation and If any fraud is uncovered then the American people deserve a new election. And given, the influence that Putin and Comey have had on this election, all the more reason to have a new election. Until this is settled suspend Trumps actions.
"What once seemed like another harebrained claim by a president with little regard for the truth must now be recognized as a real threat to American democracy." It is either a threat or it isn't - time to move this beyond rhetoric and salvage our democracy.
1
It is interesting how trump uses putin as his role model. In today's digital NYT an article enlightens the reader as to how the russians softened the laws on domestic violence. They have also accused cyber techs of treason. How are the two stories related? trump like putin interpret laws to suit their self-serving position on a day to day basis. putin's obsession with his masculinity puts women's rights in jeopardy. Although trump has no trouble boasting about his earlier sexual conquests, which in the future mostly will lead to an attempt to weakening women's rights on equality and abortion. If you recall he boasted on air that avoiding STDs was his Vietnam.
1
The ramblings of the neighborhood rich kid whose lonliness is surpassed only by his weakness....Psch. 101 for those of us who paid attention in school. Almost half of the country didn't, and have now gifted us with our first early 20th century-fashioned, inferiority complex-laden fascist, whose pending carnage with regard to our democracy is already set in motion.
So, how long do we post our profound indignation on opinion forums before we get over the fact that it's finally happened here, and actually act?
So, how long do we post our profound indignation on opinion forums before we get over the fact that it's finally happened here, and actually act?
1
I hope that the people of America still have the strength to withstand this dictatorial regime for two years, when midterm elections may devolve the lunacy in the Oval Office, before violence becomes the means of change. Impeachment leaves us with the ventriloquist pence. We have to vote out the spineless liars in congress. We have to deflate trump's ego and educate those scammed by his vain rhetoric. We cannot become the hateful nation trump proposes. Because he has had no real friendships in his life, do not let him foist that characteristic on our international relationships. He has put fear into the hearts of Americans. He substitutes hate for bravery.
Typical of the foul oaf, Trump. His self-aggrandizing lies are scattered all over the place. The oaf cannot be trusted, and, worse yet, his policies represent the very worst aspects of the lowest form of American character, no doubt reflecting the kind of people that voted for him--immigrant forbears themselves opposed to immigrants, religious nuts who want to shove their hokem down everyone else's throats, gun nuts who want to act like it's still the 1870s in Dodge City, and money whackos who think tax-breaks mean for them when them really mean letting the filthy rich get even filthier.
If the New York Times is correct in arguing voter that fraud is a fantasy, it should welcome an investigation that will prove it right. Studies of voter registration rolls indicate the system is vulnerable to voter fraud, and voter fraud is difficult to detect. Most voter fraud involves voter registration, mail-in-ballots and deliberate miscounts, but even voter impersonation may be a bigger factor than supposed. In 2014, New York City’s Department of Investigations dispatched undercover agents to 63 polling places. Assuming the names of individuals who had died or moved away, or were in jail, they were allowed to vote at 61 of the 63 polling places. One of the two agents turned away was simply unlucky. The felon whose name he assumed was the son of an election official at the polling places. In the other case, a poll worker followed the agent outside and advised him that he could probably get away with using his fake ID at a nearby polling place. No poll workers called police or reported the two unsuccessful attempts. Even when voter impersonation is detected, it is seldom reported. The 2014 undercover operation showed that voter impersonation is about 97 percent successful and goes unreported when detected about 100 percent of the time. People should welcome the voter fraud investigation.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/368234/voter-fraud-weve-got-proof-...
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/368234/voter-fraud-weve-got-proof-...
1
Two points
1) Fascists come to power by destroying faith in governing institutions – electoral systems, Obama's citizenship, media are liars and so on. Read Umberto Eco. We are almost there.
2) In Milwaukee, a place Republicans have accused of having rampant fraud. strict voter ID went into place between Presidential elections – Result – more people voted in the second election. Evidence that voter fraud does not occur.
1) Fascists come to power by destroying faith in governing institutions – electoral systems, Obama's citizenship, media are liars and so on. Read Umberto Eco. We are almost there.
2) In Milwaukee, a place Republicans have accused of having rampant fraud. strict voter ID went into place between Presidential elections – Result – more people voted in the second election. Evidence that voter fraud does not occur.
1
Republicans have no shame, just hate. I hope there are some sensible folks in the republican party who will try to convince Trump to back off of the ridiculous, childish claims of a completely self centered and insecure man. But I also hope I win the lottery. I think there is an equal chance either will happen.
Neither shame nor reason nor facts nor humanity nor democracy reign in the Oval Office of the Donald Trump White House.
The Trump 46% minority represents secession, insurrection and rebellion that threatens the breaking on the union. Under our Constitution determination of who has the right to vote is a state's right. The Confederacy is rising with the likes of Alabama's worst native sons Addison Mitchell McConnell, Jr. and Jefferson Beauregard Sessions, III.
The American people have the ultimate power and responsibility to preserve, protect and defend their Constitution. And beyond the Constitution there is the "self-evident truth that all men are created equal and endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights among which are the rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."
We need to remind Trump that he is beneath the American people, their Constitution and their divine or natural creator. And the primary way that we can do that is by having the right to vote in our divided limited power democratic republic.
A republic born in racist misogynist hypocrisy focused on guaranteeing the political governing power of white Protestant Englishmen who owned property has evolved beyond it's ugly beginnings. Trump needs to be stopped by all means necessary within and without the Constitution. From the "emoluments' clause to conflicts of interests to Congress to the courts to the streets it is nation time before it is too late.
The Trump 46% minority represents secession, insurrection and rebellion that threatens the breaking on the union. Under our Constitution determination of who has the right to vote is a state's right. The Confederacy is rising with the likes of Alabama's worst native sons Addison Mitchell McConnell, Jr. and Jefferson Beauregard Sessions, III.
The American people have the ultimate power and responsibility to preserve, protect and defend their Constitution. And beyond the Constitution there is the "self-evident truth that all men are created equal and endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights among which are the rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."
We need to remind Trump that he is beneath the American people, their Constitution and their divine or natural creator. And the primary way that we can do that is by having the right to vote in our divided limited power democratic republic.
A republic born in racist misogynist hypocrisy focused on guaranteeing the political governing power of white Protestant Englishmen who owned property has evolved beyond it's ugly beginnings. Trump needs to be stopped by all means necessary within and without the Constitution. From the "emoluments' clause to conflicts of interests to Congress to the courts to the streets it is nation time before it is too late.
Every president starts their administration with a strategy to win the second 4 years. This new administration is going after the voter registration roles and at some point will claim that a registration error is the same thing as voter fraud. In an effort to clean up this "fraud" laws will be passed that disenfranchise a significant portion of the majority of America that voted against the .0001% regime. This is the long game to repeal the National voter registration act of 1993. Democrats think that after a law is passed we can move on to other issues but voter suppression is a key republican strategy and this law is in play.
1
If similar claims regarding voter fraud had been made by a third world president, we would be remarking how sad it was that the people of that nation had elected a madman.
We have to face the sad truth that our president is mentally ill.
There is no other explanation to account for our president having a televised interview with an ABC anchorman and claiming that not only were their 5 million votes casts by illegals, but that every one of those illegal votes went to his opponent.
Congress should commence hearings to determine how to legally remove Trump from office due to severe mental illness.
We have to face the sad truth that our president is mentally ill.
There is no other explanation to account for our president having a televised interview with an ABC anchorman and claiming that not only were their 5 million votes casts by illegals, but that every one of those illegal votes went to his opponent.
Congress should commence hearings to determine how to legally remove Trump from office due to severe mental illness.
13
Do not underestimate Trump. Clearly he is mentally and emotionally unstable.
But he, or his aides, are pushing this voter fraud fiction with the purpose of suppressing minority voting. His madness is giving the Republican Party cover.
But he, or his aides, are pushing this voter fraud fiction with the purpose of suppressing minority voting. His madness is giving the Republican Party cover.
1
my guess is 800,000 fraud votes, and five times that fraud voters registered. my guess is 70-75% went to HRC.
you think the numbers are far lower.
why not check?
you think the numbers are far lower.
why not check?
1
A clear demonstration that Donald Trump does not think things through.
Before going down this path, many of his supporters believed he won the popular vote to be elected President. Now they are seeing multiple interviews with experts who explain things like his narrow Electoral College win and the absence of evidence for voter fraud.
Trump, in his interview with David Muir of ABC, went so far as to dispute the author of the Pew study Trump himself was citing.
Many true Trump believers are doubtlessly thrilled at the quick pace of his actions. Others are starting to wonder about the sore winner they helped elect.
Day by day, Trump and his close advisers are making mistakes that will come back to bite them. Reality has a way of doing that.
Before going down this path, many of his supporters believed he won the popular vote to be elected President. Now they are seeing multiple interviews with experts who explain things like his narrow Electoral College win and the absence of evidence for voter fraud.
Trump, in his interview with David Muir of ABC, went so far as to dispute the author of the Pew study Trump himself was citing.
Many true Trump believers are doubtlessly thrilled at the quick pace of his actions. Others are starting to wonder about the sore winner they helped elect.
Day by day, Trump and his close advisers are making mistakes that will come back to bite them. Reality has a way of doing that.
14
Stop giving a platform for those whose positions have been proven absurd. Your providing a link to a man from a Southern state (state and person not being shown deliberately) only further fosters these insane and dangerous beliefs. If they wish to continue what their assinine and divisive claims, let they themselves find the appropriate bottomfeeding media on their own.
3
Trump refuses to believe the evidence of 17 security agencies showing Russian hacking of the November election. However, he's quick to embrace the unfounded voter fraud claims of a single crackpot.
If Trump and his followers believe the election was truly illegitimate, then let's hold another one. Now that the nation has seen how extreme and irrational Trump has been in just one week as president, he'd be booted out in a heartbeat.
If Trump and his followers believe the election was truly illegitimate, then let's hold another one. Now that the nation has seen how extreme and irrational Trump has been in just one week as president, he'd be booted out in a heartbeat.
22
Speaking of fantasy, "Russian hacking of the November election" perhaps is on equal par...
1
The Editorial Board "doth protest too much".
Fearful of what a thorough investigation of voter fraud might reveal, the Editorial Board resorts to baseless claims that it does not exist.
The assertion that millions of Americans, without any identification of their eligibility, vote without any abuses is unequivocally nonsense.
Let the facts be uncovered.
Fearful of what a thorough investigation of voter fraud might reveal, the Editorial Board resorts to baseless claims that it does not exist.
The assertion that millions of Americans, without any identification of their eligibility, vote without any abuses is unequivocally nonsense.
Let the facts be uncovered.
9
Straw man. The Times does not assert that there are no abuses. They assert that other experts declare there are no abuses on anything approaching the scale Trump claims. No abuses on a scale to tilt even a tight race.
1
You realize that this myth for years has been debunked and that you are now calling 31 republican secretary's of states liars?
We all know this is about further suppressing voters. You want "valid identification" (whatever that is deemed to be this week), then be ready to pony up the money to provide every eligible American voter with this specific form of identification. That includes physical facilities, materials, and people - and aren't just limited to a 9 to 5 situation.
I know something about voter suppression. My son, who is eligible to vote (born in Indianapolis, Indiana, over the age of 18) - couldn't. Want to know why?
1. He has a disability and is homeschooled.
This means he does not have a school picture ID.
2. He cannot drive so therefore he has no picture ID to prove who he is.
3. We do not take advantage of any government program therefore he does not have a picture ID. We probably should have taken advantage of various government programs when he first became disabled (age 8) however we make decent enough money and we're not as bad off as others.
He has a birth certificate, social security card, we've lived at the same address his entire life (except for his first 2 years where we lived less than 10 miles away).
My son is unable to register to vote in the state of Indiana because he cannot get a State issued ID.
And guess what? He's white, has no criminal record, and was born and raised in a red state.
We all know this is about further suppressing voters. You want "valid identification" (whatever that is deemed to be this week), then be ready to pony up the money to provide every eligible American voter with this specific form of identification. That includes physical facilities, materials, and people - and aren't just limited to a 9 to 5 situation.
I know something about voter suppression. My son, who is eligible to vote (born in Indianapolis, Indiana, over the age of 18) - couldn't. Want to know why?
1. He has a disability and is homeschooled.
This means he does not have a school picture ID.
2. He cannot drive so therefore he has no picture ID to prove who he is.
3. We do not take advantage of any government program therefore he does not have a picture ID. We probably should have taken advantage of various government programs when he first became disabled (age 8) however we make decent enough money and we're not as bad off as others.
He has a birth certificate, social security card, we've lived at the same address his entire life (except for his first 2 years where we lived less than 10 miles away).
My son is unable to register to vote in the state of Indiana because he cannot get a State issued ID.
And guess what? He's white, has no criminal record, and was born and raised in a red state.
2
People, do the math. To "verify" 3 million illegal votes between election day by inauguration day (much easier than doing it by "late November") would require confirming 1,667 illegal votes per hour, or one every two seconds, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Did Mr. Phillips do that all by himself? If not, where is the organization that did it? Where is the record of his travel costs? Or were all those illegal votes in Texas, which Mr. Trump won?
11
"... where is the organization that did it?"
That's easy: Judicial Watch. (meaning, they didn't do the honest day's work, but got the "alternative facts" out.)
That's easy: Judicial Watch. (meaning, they didn't do the honest day's work, but got the "alternative facts" out.)
Something needs to give regarding the balance of power
between the branches of the U.S. democracy.
Trump is off the rails and lack of emotional competancy is the
issue to say nothing of executive competancy.
His inner circle of the dark one Bannon, the highly inexperienced
son-in-law kid, and the feeble Priebus, compounds the
intolerable dangers.
between the branches of the U.S. democracy.
Trump is off the rails and lack of emotional competancy is the
issue to say nothing of executive competancy.
His inner circle of the dark one Bannon, the highly inexperienced
son-in-law kid, and the feeble Priebus, compounds the
intolerable dangers.
8
"Republicans may see these measures as a means of staying in power in the face of demographic changes. They should be ashamed of undermining the integrity of our system of government by trying to strip away a right Americans have fought for and died to secure." Expecting today's Republican party to feel shame over using anti-democratic tactics to bolster their power is delusional. This is a gang that cannot be shamed.
11
Inauguration Day, January 20, 2017 -- henceforth to be referred to in history books and high school history classes as Rock Bottom Day and Bottom-of-the-Barrel Day, the day that Americans elected the worst and most unfit president of all time -- will likely be celebrated in the future as a joyous occasion ranking close behind Christmas and Thanksgiving.
And rightly so.
Because now, thanks to President Trump, Americans will never again be forced-- on election day-- to deal with the awesome, anxiety-provoking question of whether they have elected the worst president of all time.
Of course, that still leaves us with the open question, yet to be resolved, of whether there will ever be another president after him.
And rightly so.
Because now, thanks to President Trump, Americans will never again be forced-- on election day-- to deal with the awesome, anxiety-provoking question of whether they have elected the worst president of all time.
Of course, that still leaves us with the open question, yet to be resolved, of whether there will ever be another president after him.
5
I have lived in Latin America (Colombia, Argentina, Uruguay) for more than 12 years. I can assure Americans that what they are experiencing with the measures taken by the Trump administration so far, follow a pattern common to demagogic leaders I have seen while living abroad. Demonization of the press and other media, obfuscation of the truth, "alternative facts", and the constant repetition of them are typical. Strong-arming of businesses and threats of executive retaliation against opposition are as well. Not least of the elements subverted by demagogues is the suppression of the vote. America, you are playing with fire here. Beware. The country can slip away before you know it.
25
Some of us have realized this. We are terrified.
3
Here's the complete fallacy of this: So the Democrats were smart enough to somehow get 3-5 million people illegally, but they forgot to do it in the battleground states?
Not to mention the Trump staff who are illegally registered to vote in multiple states. And that German golfer who can't even vote here because...he's German.
Not to mention the Trump staff who are illegally registered to vote in multiple states. And that German golfer who can't even vote here because...he's German.
10
Did somebody say that the unproven fraud would be a Democrat conspiracy ?
The fact you allege that Trump staffers were illegally registered in multiple states, and that a German was registered are indication that voter fraud in the USA is a real possibility. Trump should thank you.
The fact you allege that Trump staffers were illegally registered in multiple states, and that a German was registered are indication that voter fraud in the USA is a real possibility. Trump should thank you.
Trump told the truth--there was voter fraud. Only it did not favor Hillary Clinton. Cybersecurity experts have studied how Russia could have hacked into our election computers and voting machines, and they say unequivocally that Russia could and probably did swing the election in Trump's favor.
So Trump is not the legitimate President of the United States. At the very least, he is the beneficiary of Russian interference in our democracy. At worst, he and his staff colluded with Russia to hack our election. In that case, he is guilty of treason, and should be tried and punished. If he prefers to be waterboarded during his interrogation, his wishes should certainly be accommodated.
So Trump is not the legitimate President of the United States. At the very least, he is the beneficiary of Russian interference in our democracy. At worst, he and his staff colluded with Russia to hack our election. In that case, he is guilty of treason, and should be tried and punished. If he prefers to be waterboarded during his interrogation, his wishes should certainly be accommodated.
10
The intelligence community's report did not conclude that Russia probably swung the election in Trump's favor. The hacked emails showed that the Democratic National Committee encouraged reporters to write damaging articles about Bernie Sanders. It affected the Democratic Primary, not the general election. Most of the disaffected voters in Midwestern swing states who provided Trump his margin of victory were probably unaware of what the email showed.
I suspect that Alt-Senior Adviser Putin will have some good ideas for Alt-President Trump, not only about how to find voter fraud in a sprawling, continent-scale nation like the USA, but about how he can guarantee bullet-proof election results for himself and his executive committees in the Alt-Congress moving forward.
Also, with Alt-Attorney General Jeff Sessions working with the states and a friendly Alt-Supreme Court, there will, of course, no longer be any voter fraud to distract Trump from carrying out his designs, since only verified Americans will be voting, and overwhelmingly for Trump and his executive committees.
Also, with Alt-Attorney General Jeff Sessions working with the states and a friendly Alt-Supreme Court, there will, of course, no longer be any voter fraud to distract Trump from carrying out his designs, since only verified Americans will be voting, and overwhelmingly for Trump and his executive committees.
1
C'mon ... Cut The Donald Some Slack
What's all of this talk about democracy?
At the end of the 18th century the Founding Fathers greatly feared democracy; so, to protect their property rights, they gave us a republic (and an electoral college).
At the beginning of the 21st century the American People feared democracy; so, to protect their "freedom," they gave us autocracy.
Only a few weirdoes in this country care anything about democracy ... and, those who do don't have roots in Western Europe. One of the problems with democracy is that it requires the intelligence and (real) education of the electorate to make it work well ... two commodities that are greatly deficient in the United States.
I think it was George Bernard Shaw who said, "Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few."
So let's stick with what we've got and forget all of this nonsense about democracy.
What's all of this talk about democracy?
At the end of the 18th century the Founding Fathers greatly feared democracy; so, to protect their property rights, they gave us a republic (and an electoral college).
At the beginning of the 21st century the American People feared democracy; so, to protect their "freedom," they gave us autocracy.
Only a few weirdoes in this country care anything about democracy ... and, those who do don't have roots in Western Europe. One of the problems with democracy is that it requires the intelligence and (real) education of the electorate to make it work well ... two commodities that are greatly deficient in the United States.
I think it was George Bernard Shaw who said, "Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few."
So let's stick with what we've got and forget all of this nonsense about democracy.
1
Perhaps one of Trump's most remarkable achievements is that he is literally changing our language.
Trump's statements and behavior are so unprecedented that we do not have a proper word to characterize them.
Merely to say his statements are false is to miss the outlandish, absurd character of their falsity.
But it is probably not right to call them 'lies' either, because this implies that he knows his statements are false - and his penchant for delusions makes this difficult to establish.
He can easily avoid the charge of lying, merely by insisting he believes his statements to be true.
In short, we need another word for what Trump does.
A statement like "millions of voters voted illegally" is a Trumpism.
A "Trumpism" is a statement which (A.) everyone knows is false, and (B.) anyone in the speaker's position should know to be false.
Until now the English language has had no need for such a word, because so few people can utter Trumpisms for long without suffering serious damage to their career and personal relationships.
But we are clearly in a new era.
Trump's statements and behavior are so unprecedented that we do not have a proper word to characterize them.
Merely to say his statements are false is to miss the outlandish, absurd character of their falsity.
But it is probably not right to call them 'lies' either, because this implies that he knows his statements are false - and his penchant for delusions makes this difficult to establish.
He can easily avoid the charge of lying, merely by insisting he believes his statements to be true.
In short, we need another word for what Trump does.
A statement like "millions of voters voted illegally" is a Trumpism.
A "Trumpism" is a statement which (A.) everyone knows is false, and (B.) anyone in the speaker's position should know to be false.
Until now the English language has had no need for such a word, because so few people can utter Trumpisms for long without suffering serious damage to their career and personal relationships.
But we are clearly in a new era.
3
Republican's efforts to suppress minority voting work only because a significant number of these potential voters are delicate little flowers who fold at a little inconvenience. I expect that over the next four (or more) years some of these people may be more seriously inconvenienced - along with the rest of us.
Obviously, the only fraud that needs to be exposed is the fraud that is the GOP. And I'm convinced that the best defense against their corruption and deceptions is a highly educated citizenry where critical thinking skills, along with a strong civics program are given prominent priority status beginning early with Elementary school and continuing through High School and College. I know that this is a tall task, but it is one well worth the effort. If such were the case, they'd never even consider attempting to pass off their latest allegation of massive voter fraud. It would be roundly rebuked as absurd. (And the person (DJT) making the accusation would be viewed "suspiciously", and considered an unprincipled fraud as well...Which, in this case, would be absolutely true! -)
4
That's why they want DeVos. Her agenda is the destruction of the public schools.
2
We should expect more straw men and alternative facts from Trump et al but there is the clear intent of staying in power the Chavez way. Because the democratic institutions are stronger in the US, the road to implementing an authoritarian regime has to be covered with "investigations" and "legalities".
Other straw men are just smoke screens to take attention away from the consequences of soon to be without health insurance.
Other straw men are just smoke screens to take attention away from the consequences of soon to be without health insurance.
4
The voter fraud accusations can work both ways. If a bipartisan commission should be established to investigate this 5 million ballot "discrepancy" in the popular vote this past election, it just may open up a can of worms for Trump. We may find out that there were anomalies in the counts in a few districts in the key states of Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania should have warranted recounts and further scrutiny. I for one find it odd that there was a 3 million vote margin - that's a lot of votes - in the popular vote vs what happened in the electoral votes. But the fact is - thee are too many indicators that Republicans legislatures have for many election cycles suppressed voting with restrictive voting laws. And that is a verifiable fact.
8
Donald Trump is the perfect representative of the modern conservative in America today. They control most of the country at the federal, state and local level and still paint themselves as victims. Unless, of course, they are really saying that they are so ineffective that even though they control most of the country at the federal, state and local level, they cannot even influence policy, let alone drive it.
6
We need old style investigative journalism and NY Times is filling that critical need as Trump + Republicans push a stunningly insatiable right wing agenda.
Now we learn Trump took over the previously non-partisan government-run Voice of America to get out his messages. This has never been done before. It was always a bipartisan board of governors that ran it.
Messages were never political.
But we also learn there is a page 1,404 of a defense bill passed by the Republican Congress right after the election, where it's pretty much hidden they got **rid of the board of governors and the bipartisan thing.**
Trump's already appointed two of his political staffer operatives to push out his viewpoints on Voice of America.
Republicans are a sneaky bunch-- this feels very much like ensuring their power runs strong, as is done with propaganda in a banana republic dictatorship.
Now we learn Trump took over the previously non-partisan government-run Voice of America to get out his messages. This has never been done before. It was always a bipartisan board of governors that ran it.
Messages were never political.
But we also learn there is a page 1,404 of a defense bill passed by the Republican Congress right after the election, where it's pretty much hidden they got **rid of the board of governors and the bipartisan thing.**
Trump's already appointed two of his political staffer operatives to push out his viewpoints on Voice of America.
Republicans are a sneaky bunch-- this feels very much like ensuring their power runs strong, as is done with propaganda in a banana republic dictatorship.
8
On the contrary, the NYT has taken a position, which prevents it from serious reporting. The only thing it seems to investigate these days is Trump's speech. Being hellbent on proving..something, anything...is hardly the stuff of objective and professional reporters.
If we think of a nation as a sentient entity, a term that comes to mind for the U.S. under Republican rule is “psychotic nation. Our invasion of Iraq is one instance where we failed to understand reality and behave appropriately. If we end up conducting a major voter fraud investigation, it will be confirmed we continue to act based on a distorted view of reality.
2
There is a potentially huge piece of the voter fraud controversy that the Times studiously ignores. States are inconsistent in what is required to register in the first place. California allows me to register online without stating address, driver's license #, or social security number. All I have to do is affirm that I live in the state and I am an adult citizen. The click to do that is as easy as clicking that I have read and agreed to some software license.
When I show up to vote or complete my absentee ballot there is no way to prove that I have not voted multiple times or that I am in fact a citizen. It seems quite disengenuous for the Times to brand suspicions of fraud as a lie when over 2 million undocumented residents in one state alone have such a blatant opportunity to vote illegally with impunity.
When I show up to vote or complete my absentee ballot there is no way to prove that I have not voted multiple times or that I am in fact a citizen. It seems quite disengenuous for the Times to brand suspicions of fraud as a lie when over 2 million undocumented residents in one state alone have such a blatant opportunity to vote illegally with impunity.
7
According to the United States Elections Project 40% of eligible voters in the U.S. did not vote in the 2016 election. Why would millions of illegal aliens give their name and address to a government agency to vote and commit a crime that they could be deported for when 40% of voting elligible Americans don't vote? Even if state election departments don't thoroughly check if a voter is a U.S. citizen, illegal aliens would have to be nuts to vote and risk deportation. I'm looking forward to yet another investigation of voting fraud that shows that voting by non-citizens is virtually nonexistent. But if I know Trump, he will still insist that millions voted illegally(and all for Democtats too!) because facts and the truth are irrelevant to what President Trump wants to believe.
The voter fraud issue is merely symptomatic. Trump and his immediate coterie correctly concluded that the GOP was a perfect host and ripe for takeover. They have a parasitic relationship. The Trump-GOP cabal, with factions that are both tightly and loosely coordinated, are advantaged by their disciplined close-minded focus on narrow but key issues. Everything else is noise they ignore, reject, or refute with lies. They're a national antithetical embodiment of the worst kinds of exclusive and hateful high school cool kids clubs. But exclusivity is its own strength. It reinforces their shared and misdirected sense of victimhood (Christianity, jobs, immigrants, etc.). It justifies their astonishing rejection of an objective reality (science, economics, etc.). It underlies their attack on the very fabric of our constitutional republic (deliberate disenfranchisement, absolute repudiation of individual rights, forced imposition of majority rule, etc.). It enables consistent thought-free idiocentric, repetitive, and self-justifying messaging with no effort to invite discussion or engage others. Democrats, liberals and I'd venture many independents, by contrast, have or seek a diametric opposite mindset and modus vivendi. This is a far more difficult approach to governing. It focuses on the long-term, not the short-term. It values inclusion, not exclusion. It seeks to share balanced power, not strong-arm sovereign dominion. Democrats must quickly adapt and intelligently attack. Now.
4
So the press and media have been crying out for proof of Trump's assertion (wrongly labeled a lie) about voter fraud. Using a post election survey a consortium of universities has determined that Clinton may have received upwards of 800,000 fraudulent votes. Now admittedly it is not enough to change the popular vote, but 800,000 fraudulent votes (mostly by illegals) is 800,000 to many.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jan/26/hillary-clinton-received...
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jan/26/hillary-clinton-received...
1
It is of high importance to validate the US election process. The idea that fraud and manipulation of results can be achieved with ease by either parties needs to be addressed in the next four year, preferably before. Technologies exists today to make a system of trust, or at least a system of more trust than current.
So what do we know so far?
We know that he is not normal; we know that he is intent on dominating other nations and people; we know that he speaks a strange language somewhat similar to English but distinctly different from it in that it is composed almost entirely of lies; we know that he craves power and wealth, condones torture and is not above stealing other people’s oil; we know that he has tiny hands and a very small heart; a face that frequently changes color; and a head that appears to have something growing out of it that is not hair; and we know that he has the capacity to make promises, common ordinary decency and tax audits disappear.
So where do we go from here?
Cue theme music from The X-Files.
We know that he is not normal; we know that he is intent on dominating other nations and people; we know that he speaks a strange language somewhat similar to English but distinctly different from it in that it is composed almost entirely of lies; we know that he craves power and wealth, condones torture and is not above stealing other people’s oil; we know that he has tiny hands and a very small heart; a face that frequently changes color; and a head that appears to have something growing out of it that is not hair; and we know that he has the capacity to make promises, common ordinary decency and tax audits disappear.
So where do we go from here?
Cue theme music from The X-Files.
3
Republicans only win by cheating, but it's not just our unfortunate emperor who is unclothed - the money-soaked system is in flagrante too. We have a republican Supreme Court that shreds democratic protections with Citizen's United and the dismantling of the Voting Rights Act. And this is what we get: rule by a fanatical minority who not only gets less votes but also does everything in its power to ensure it continues. Claiming voter fraud is just one of their gleeful gambits.
5
The Republicans have conjured a phantom army of illegal voters without considering the logistical requirements of such a massive conspiracy. The organization and resources needed to record the names of so many people on the voting rolls and to transport to the polls individuals belonging to the lowest income levels of American society would create a massive footprint easily detectable by the crudest investigative tools. Yet the diligent defenders of electoral purity have relied on allegations unsupported by any persuasive empirical evidence.
The architects of this elaborate conspiracy also apparently neglected to take politics 101 in college. They either overlooked the key importance of the swing states in the Midwest, or targeted too few resources to Ohio and Florida, which all the polls showed leaning to Trump by a fairly narrow margin. Such incompetence reveals far worse shortcomings in our educational system than even the harshest critics have uncovered.
The villains we are pursuing should not be hard to find. They possess highly developed organizational skills, but they can't count to 270.
The architects of this elaborate conspiracy also apparently neglected to take politics 101 in college. They either overlooked the key importance of the swing states in the Midwest, or targeted too few resources to Ohio and Florida, which all the polls showed leaning to Trump by a fairly narrow margin. Such incompetence reveals far worse shortcomings in our educational system than even the harshest critics have uncovered.
The villains we are pursuing should not be hard to find. They possess highly developed organizational skills, but they can't count to 270.
My question is this.
Just how many hard earned tax dollars can Trump order be spent on his paranoid delusion of millions upon millions of fraudulent voters - all of them for Hillary - appearing in the flesh at polling places - what, with false ID's or having been given the names of dead people or having the gumption to register not just once as most people won't do (we have drives for that) but twice in different states - and actually drive between states to vote twice when the problem is we can't get enough people to the polls - and vote twice with the specter of a federal crime and deportation over their heads? People who are trying to hide every day of their lives? On the one day they are being looked for at the one place they might be found?
How much money would that cost? And how many arrests, with how many poll watchers they had, would there have been, if they only caught - with their watchful eye - 10 to 20%? If 3 - 5 million, we would expect 3 - 5 hundred thousand arrests, easy. Right?
Is any of this making any sense to anyone but the man we - you - voted to be President?
Just how many hard earned tax dollars can Trump order be spent on his paranoid delusion of millions upon millions of fraudulent voters - all of them for Hillary - appearing in the flesh at polling places - what, with false ID's or having been given the names of dead people or having the gumption to register not just once as most people won't do (we have drives for that) but twice in different states - and actually drive between states to vote twice when the problem is we can't get enough people to the polls - and vote twice with the specter of a federal crime and deportation over their heads? People who are trying to hide every day of their lives? On the one day they are being looked for at the one place they might be found?
How much money would that cost? And how many arrests, with how many poll watchers they had, would there have been, if they only caught - with their watchful eye - 10 to 20%? If 3 - 5 million, we would expect 3 - 5 hundred thousand arrests, easy. Right?
Is any of this making any sense to anyone but the man we - you - voted to be President?
1
Why is it assumed that those alleged 3 million votes were cast for Democrats and especially for Mrs. Clinton. Why is the media not commenting on that issue considering that the GOP has its own band of "rigging" elections via gerrymandering. In addition, there were nearly 8 million votes cast against both Trump and Clinton by aggrieved Sanders supporters and third party supporters, ergo those 8 million votes were not all against Clinton some had to be against Trump so he lost the popular vote by more than the estimated 3 million votes. Lastly what about the non voters who sat on the sidelines being too apathetic to get off the couch. Trump refuses to accept the fact that he is not and will not be a popular man in the oval office, no matter what his megalomaniacal inner self tells him.
3
Republican claims of rampant voter fraud is a fraud in itself. The only voter fraud taking place in America today exists solely within the ranks of the GOP with their persistent and brazen attempts to selectively "rig" elections by depriving certain groups of U.S. citizens of their constitutional right to vote.
When the U.S. Supreme Court recently ruled to remove the protections provided by the "Voting Rights Act", it didn't take long for the GOP to swing into action to once again take full advantage of the situation.
It is outrageous that the accusations of voter fraud continue to come from the very party that has worked so hard to deprive citizens of their legitimate right to vote. In truth, the only fraud taking place comes directly from the very party making the accusation.
It is clear what their intent is -- to help preserve their majority status in Congress while they implement unpopular policies that impact the lower and middle classes.
Nothing is more important in our Democracy than protecting our right to vote. Without it, we have nothing. It is our most effective means to produce meaningful change in a peaceful and orderly fashion -- just what the Framers of our Constitution wanted.
To allow the Republicans to rig the system in their favor by imposing artificial barriers is tantamount to treason and should be treated as such.
Our Founding Fathers must be turning in their graves.
When the U.S. Supreme Court recently ruled to remove the protections provided by the "Voting Rights Act", it didn't take long for the GOP to swing into action to once again take full advantage of the situation.
It is outrageous that the accusations of voter fraud continue to come from the very party that has worked so hard to deprive citizens of their legitimate right to vote. In truth, the only fraud taking place comes directly from the very party making the accusation.
It is clear what their intent is -- to help preserve their majority status in Congress while they implement unpopular policies that impact the lower and middle classes.
Nothing is more important in our Democracy than protecting our right to vote. Without it, we have nothing. It is our most effective means to produce meaningful change in a peaceful and orderly fashion -- just what the Framers of our Constitution wanted.
To allow the Republicans to rig the system in their favor by imposing artificial barriers is tantamount to treason and should be treated as such.
Our Founding Fathers must be turning in their graves.
2
Alleged "research" by a single individual of questionable legitimacy shouldn't be the basis for national expenditure of tax dollars, or the cause of societal upheaval, especially in light of many thousands of election officials of all political persuasions across the entire nation verifying there was no fraud.
If there is real data, present it. But of course, it has not been presented. My guess is we will never see that "data".
And if there really was election fraud, then it is up to the President to ensure that a total recount - every single vote - is conducted and/or a new election is held to counter that fraud. If Mr. Trump believes more people voted for him, a new election shouldn't present a problem.
These won't happen either, because the President is a liar and knows all too well this is a scam, as do his Republican enablers. So much for love of country.
If there is real data, present it. But of course, it has not been presented. My guess is we will never see that "data".
And if there really was election fraud, then it is up to the President to ensure that a total recount - every single vote - is conducted and/or a new election is held to counter that fraud. If Mr. Trump believes more people voted for him, a new election shouldn't present a problem.
These won't happen either, because the President is a liar and knows all too well this is a scam, as do his Republican enablers. So much for love of country.
2
There was an old Adage in Richard Daley's Chicago--that all the cemeteries in the city were Democrat--because that's how they always voted.
It is not all that surprising that only Liberals deny the existence of voter fraud--because they are the sole beneficiary of it. It's exactly why they want no restrictions on voting. They seemingly cannot conceive, of the millions of illegal aliens in California--with that state's "voter friendly" regulations, none of them would attempt to vote. In reality, if no one is verifying, and there are no penalties, why not try? With Liberals in charge of local gov't, how could anyone ever know?
I hope the Trump Administration conducts a thorough study of the 2016 elections. If they do, I'm not sure they'll find millions of illegally cast votes-but it's pretty much a guarantee: hundreds of thousands of votes were cast by convicted felons, illegal aliens, and people casting votes in multiple jurisdictions. And when those votes are uncovered--nearly 100% of them will be for Democrats. Given that...it's no wonder they don't want to pull up the electoral covers and peek underneath.
It is not all that surprising that only Liberals deny the existence of voter fraud--because they are the sole beneficiary of it. It's exactly why they want no restrictions on voting. They seemingly cannot conceive, of the millions of illegal aliens in California--with that state's "voter friendly" regulations, none of them would attempt to vote. In reality, if no one is verifying, and there are no penalties, why not try? With Liberals in charge of local gov't, how could anyone ever know?
I hope the Trump Administration conducts a thorough study of the 2016 elections. If they do, I'm not sure they'll find millions of illegally cast votes-but it's pretty much a guarantee: hundreds of thousands of votes were cast by convicted felons, illegal aliens, and people casting votes in multiple jurisdictions. And when those votes are uncovered--nearly 100% of them will be for Democrats. Given that...it's no wonder they don't want to pull up the electoral covers and peek underneath.
3
Jesse has written another example of the deterioration of democratic principles in the USA. What shred of evidence or 'probable cause' exists to warrant spending taxpayer money on an investigation of voter fraud? To date, no evidence has surfaced. The burden of proof is on those who allege electoral malfeasance, not on the accused--Democrats--in Jesse's allegation.
Millions of illegal votes, across the country, and NO evidence? This is not something to waste taxpayer money "investigating." This is baseless slander. Let's call it by its proper name.
Millions of illegal votes, across the country, and NO evidence? This is not something to waste taxpayer money "investigating." This is baseless slander. Let's call it by its proper name.
1
A few years ago I was having lunch with a conservative friend. I mentioned the voter ID laws that were being passed despite "virtually no evidence that voter fraud exists in America." My friend responded, "On the contrary - I think it is a widespread problem!" Clearly, there were two disparate sources of information at play.
This is the problem, in a nutshell: conservatives are receiving a nonstop message that voter fraud is rampant in our country. Liberals hear just the opposite. Thanks to Facebook, Google and personal preferences, we are receiving two entirely separate sets of facts. And now that the "mainstream media" has been declared null and void, we have lost our last source of objective facts.
So how on earth are we supposed to govern ourselves?
This is the problem, in a nutshell: conservatives are receiving a nonstop message that voter fraud is rampant in our country. Liberals hear just the opposite. Thanks to Facebook, Google and personal preferences, we are receiving two entirely separate sets of facts. And now that the "mainstream media" has been declared null and void, we have lost our last source of objective facts.
So how on earth are we supposed to govern ourselves?
138
@ TM: "Thanks to Facebook, Google and personal preferences, we are receiving two entirely separate sets of facts."
With all due respect, we the people are NOT receiving two sets of facts. There are facts reported by responsible journalists, and then there is fake news and opinion masquerading as legitimate news. It is not so difficult to tell the difference, but one must make an effort. The NY Times has published excellent pieces on "voter fraud." The UpShot also provides first rate reporting/analysis on the issue. Facts. Do. Matter.
With all due respect, we the people are NOT receiving two sets of facts. There are facts reported by responsible journalists, and then there is fake news and opinion masquerading as legitimate news. It is not so difficult to tell the difference, but one must make an effort. The NY Times has published excellent pieces on "voter fraud." The UpShot also provides first rate reporting/analysis on the issue. Facts. Do. Matter.
2
And both sets of facts are not correct, something that can be remedied with a little effort i.e. refusing to stay within a news media echo chamber. On this issue studies on % of non citizens voting from single digits to mid teens - as high as 16%. Given the large numbers of non citizens (both legally here and illegally) they could easily have put more Democrats into office than should have been, since those studies also show non citizens tend to vote for Democrats (no doubt in part because Republicans tend to favor stricter voter ID laws). For example, Sen Al Franken was put into office by a 312 vote margin, and thus we can reasonably conclude he is illegitimate.
Yes, people on the left and right have different opinions on the existence of voter fraud. First, they are opinions, because definitive evidence really doesn't exist. Also, the absence of evidence is not evidence, especially if one is not looking hard.
But I support voter ID laws. Why?
1. It is a very minor burden on voters and is a normal practice in our society.
2. To whatever extent it is a burden, we can have programs to enable all voters to get necessary documentation.
3. It is reassuring to the public that elections will be fair.
4. It signals that we consider voting important.
But I support voter ID laws. Why?
1. It is a very minor burden on voters and is a normal practice in our society.
2. To whatever extent it is a burden, we can have programs to enable all voters to get necessary documentation.
3. It is reassuring to the public that elections will be fair.
4. It signals that we consider voting important.
1
Your headline should read: "Trump administration set to continue voter suppression, cementing Republican dominance of elections".
By focusing on the lie attention is drawn to the question of whether or not there are illegal aliens voting, instead of the real story - voter suppression.
By focusing on the lie attention is drawn to the question of whether or not there are illegal aliens voting, instead of the real story - voter suppression.
1
The absurdity started with the irrelevant and ludicrous claim that Trump lost the popular vote. Instead of giving him unqualified credit for a stupendous victory won against all odds, even those cooked daily by this very paper.
That's where the absurdity starts. No unqualified words of praise, no humble pie, just sour grapes, hate and venom. All here, the hallowed NYT opinion pages.
As a result, the absurd claim is being given the deep dekko it's begging for. We already know California alone supplied the excess 3m votes. We also know California is over-stuffed with immigrants of all types, legal, illegal, and semi-legal H1 types. Their immigrant culture always at the cost of African Americans, the intended beneficiaries of Civil Rights reforms, but upended by Johnson's sleight of hand in the 60s offering immigrants as proxy, with California only too happy to take the bait. Thus, along with California's immigrant culture, is their shameful legacy of the nation's worst racial riots, driver's licenses for the asking, a lily-white Silicon Valley, sanctuary cities, and a lily-white Hollywood.
Co-conspirators Democrats claim of not enforcing voter ID to protect minority voting is rubbish. Case in point, they want the convict vote too. Democrats are in this out of self-interest only, that too for decades. Now it's about their survival.
Who needs the report? Give it the cursory glaze, then implement voter ID nationwide. That's what Donald wants, more power to him.
That's where the absurdity starts. No unqualified words of praise, no humble pie, just sour grapes, hate and venom. All here, the hallowed NYT opinion pages.
As a result, the absurd claim is being given the deep dekko it's begging for. We already know California alone supplied the excess 3m votes. We also know California is over-stuffed with immigrants of all types, legal, illegal, and semi-legal H1 types. Their immigrant culture always at the cost of African Americans, the intended beneficiaries of Civil Rights reforms, but upended by Johnson's sleight of hand in the 60s offering immigrants as proxy, with California only too happy to take the bait. Thus, along with California's immigrant culture, is their shameful legacy of the nation's worst racial riots, driver's licenses for the asking, a lily-white Silicon Valley, sanctuary cities, and a lily-white Hollywood.
Co-conspirators Democrats claim of not enforcing voter ID to protect minority voting is rubbish. Case in point, they want the convict vote too. Democrats are in this out of self-interest only, that too for decades. Now it's about their survival.
Who needs the report? Give it the cursory glaze, then implement voter ID nationwide. That's what Donald wants, more power to him.
2
Unless you have a problem with reality (or Math) -- Trump did lose the poplar vote ..... by nearly 3 MILLION.
Don't underestimate the voice of the AMERICAN people who didn't want this bigot in the White House.
Get real.
Don't underestimate the voice of the AMERICAN people who didn't want this bigot in the White House.
Get real.
3
I agree with Donald Trump that voter fraud took place ... in PA, MI, and WI.
Why did Trump's lawyers file suits to stop the recounts in PA and MI? Why were the ballots in WI not counted by hand in each county during the recount when it was suspicion of hacking of voting machines - by Trump's eager to oblige allies in Russia - that led to the recount petition in the first place?
Allegations of voter fraud work both ways, Mr Trump. I think both sides can agree that the 2016 election was tainted, and that just makes you an illegitimate president.
The controversy goes beyond the present and recent past. Trump isn't just motivated by ego and personal insecurity in alleging voter fraud. He's creating the case for voter suppression and voter fraud (to his benefit) in 2020.
Why did Trump's lawyers file suits to stop the recounts in PA and MI? Why were the ballots in WI not counted by hand in each county during the recount when it was suspicion of hacking of voting machines - by Trump's eager to oblige allies in Russia - that led to the recount petition in the first place?
Allegations of voter fraud work both ways, Mr Trump. I think both sides can agree that the 2016 election was tainted, and that just makes you an illegitimate president.
The controversy goes beyond the present and recent past. Trump isn't just motivated by ego and personal insecurity in alleging voter fraud. He's creating the case for voter suppression and voter fraud (to his benefit) in 2020.
9
Gregg Phillips, the self-proclaimed voting fraud expert, has some personal experience with fraud of various kinds. Seems he owes the IRS $100K. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/27/trump-voter-fraud-gregg-...
3
Used to be that both political parties worked hard to make voter registration as simple and easy as possible. Used to be that following the Voter Rights act of 1965, that signing up and registering as many unregistered voters was a moral imperative as well as a legal one. Back in the olden golden days of our republic it used to be...
7
"Republicans may see these measures as a means of staying in power in the face of demographic changes. They should be ashamed of undermining the integrity of our system of government by trying to strip away a right Americans have fought for and died to secure."
Individually and collectively, members of the Republican Party lack shame. Thus, unfortunately, it follows that they are incapable of being ashamed. They are interested only in power, they put party before country and before humanity. They are (to paraphrase Basil Bunting's searing characterization of Ezra Pound) enemies of humanity at large.
I have just finished reading Image result for Joseph Ellis's stirring account ("The Quartet: Orchestrating the Second American Revolution, 1783-1789") of the four men who were responsible for replacing the Articles of Confederation with the Constitution. If they, or any of the "founders," came back and saw what the Republican Party has done to this country since 1980, they would never stop throwing up.
Individually and collectively, members of the Republican Party lack shame. Thus, unfortunately, it follows that they are incapable of being ashamed. They are interested only in power, they put party before country and before humanity. They are (to paraphrase Basil Bunting's searing characterization of Ezra Pound) enemies of humanity at large.
I have just finished reading Image result for Joseph Ellis's stirring account ("The Quartet: Orchestrating the Second American Revolution, 1783-1789") of the four men who were responsible for replacing the Articles of Confederation with the Constitution. If they, or any of the "founders," came back and saw what the Republican Party has done to this country since 1980, they would never stop throwing up.
7
The only voter fraud taking place in America is within the ranks of the Republican Party with their persistent attempts to "rig" all elections by depriving U.S. citizens of their constitutional right to vote. They are the party of the liars and the cheaters. They can't win legitimately, so they'll lie, deceive, and manipulate the "rules of the game" in their favor.
I am convinced that if voting age citizens throughout the United States understood the stark philosophical and political differences between the Democrats and the Republicans, the Democrats would consistently come out on top. But this is no excuse for the Republicans to "cheat" by imposing artificial barriers to voting that are specifically designed to target Democratic-leaning voters. Instead, it should be a signal to do a serious reassessment of their policy positions.
Nothing is more important in our Democracy than protecting the right to vote. It's the "We, the people's) most effective means to effect needed change in a peaceful and orderly fashion. To allow the Republicans to rig the system in their favor by imposing artificial barriers is tantamount to treason and should be treated as such.
I am convinced that if voting age citizens throughout the United States understood the stark philosophical and political differences between the Democrats and the Republicans, the Democrats would consistently come out on top. But this is no excuse for the Republicans to "cheat" by imposing artificial barriers to voting that are specifically designed to target Democratic-leaning voters. Instead, it should be a signal to do a serious reassessment of their policy positions.
Nothing is more important in our Democracy than protecting the right to vote. It's the "We, the people's) most effective means to effect needed change in a peaceful and orderly fashion. To allow the Republicans to rig the system in their favor by imposing artificial barriers is tantamount to treason and should be treated as such.
13
They'll use this as a further catalyst to foment these laws. The Congress shall back fill the federal judiciary with obedient judges to support legal challenge, and the Congress and President shall install one or more Supreme Court justices to guarantee it all.
Don't be surprised if McConnell does away with the filibuster at the next opportunity.
It seems extreme, but if the Democrats are expected to use it, justifiably to the same extent as the Republicans, it prevents government from operating, and therefore the writing may be on the wall for its demise. If McConnell has such vision, it surely would make sense to get rid of it before the Democrats are able to get its full benefit before it goes away anyway.
If they drop the filibuster, they can get everything they have wanted for the last 30 - 40 years, as well as unfettered voter suppression to stay in power. Should they have confidence they can hold on with these advantages, they might take the risk of making this leap, and let someone else worry about the future ramifications.
McConnell has resisted this, but Trump and some conservatives in Congress have made this an issue as recently as the last few days.
Don't be surprised if McConnell does away with the filibuster at the next opportunity.
It seems extreme, but if the Democrats are expected to use it, justifiably to the same extent as the Republicans, it prevents government from operating, and therefore the writing may be on the wall for its demise. If McConnell has such vision, it surely would make sense to get rid of it before the Democrats are able to get its full benefit before it goes away anyway.
If they drop the filibuster, they can get everything they have wanted for the last 30 - 40 years, as well as unfettered voter suppression to stay in power. Should they have confidence they can hold on with these advantages, they might take the risk of making this leap, and let someone else worry about the future ramifications.
McConnell has resisted this, but Trump and some conservatives in Congress have made this an issue as recently as the last few days.
2
Phillips is a charlatan who claims to have proof, including the names, of those illegal voters. Of course, like Trump, he will not provide any "proof" of his assertions. The GOP has embarked on a a voyage of government by smoke and mirrors.
8
The New York Times opposes the investigation because it might provide evidence of voter fraud the newspapers says is nonexistent. It singles out Phillips to make it appear that the concern over illegal voting is attributable to a single Tweeter account..Concern over voter fraud goes back to decades when there were no such thing as Tweeter or the Internet.
2
Why would anyone object to an investigation? Are there millions of undocumented aliens registered to vote under fake IDs? How many of the dead voted? Who knows for sure? An investigation could conclusively show either that this is a non-issue or else that voting procedures need to be tightened.
3
Dictatorships need a "founding lie" which they use for rallying the supporting fanatics and as a justification for normally illegal acts.
"Fraudulent votes" are perfect.
"Fraudulent votes" are perfect.
9
Meanwhile, with supposedly 3 to 5 million people voting illegally, our GOPers are unable to point to ONE case of ONE illegal immigrant in ONE state who was caught and charged with in-person voting fraud.
You'd think they could find at least one out of millions. But DonCon just keeps repeating the same old lie.
You'd think they could find at least one out of millions. But DonCon just keeps repeating the same old lie.
8
Don't know if American taxpayers wil end up paying their hard earned dollars to build the "beautiful" Mexican Wall," but it looks likely they'll be paying plenty to fund another expensive congressional investigation to satisfy Trump's quixotic quest of massive voter fraud. Got to give all those GOP legislator's something important to do now don't we!?
9
So how does a democracy deal with a President who is clearly delusional? There is no constitutional mechanism for removal and unlike in a parliamentary system no party to rebel. When is the US going to stop pretending that they have elected a somewhat more right wing version of Reagan.
The man is not capable of holding the office and there is no mechanism for removal - are you going to stumble through four years?
The man is not capable of holding the office and there is no mechanism for removal - are you going to stumble through four years?
7
The 25th Amendment does allow for the removal of a President who is unfit to serve.
A majority vote by the members of his Cabinet could transfer power the the Vice President.
I think that's pretty unlikely. Even if Trump were removed from office, I'm not sure Pence is much of an improvement.
A majority vote by the members of his Cabinet could transfer power the the Vice President.
I think that's pretty unlikely. Even if Trump were removed from office, I'm not sure Pence is much of an improvement.
1
I sincerely hope that Trump will have bigger problems to confront than his cynical form of scholasticism over voter 'fraud' perpetuated by the 'enemies' from abroad....
Calls for state secession are becoming more and more frequent and vocal on the comment boards of articles on the Trump débâcle. The precursors of Yugoslavia and the former Soviet Union are not to be ignored for there is no preordained divine imperative that dictates the perennity of the United States of America in its current corrupted form.
Calls for state secession are becoming more and more frequent and vocal on the comment boards of articles on the Trump débâcle. The precursors of Yugoslavia and the former Soviet Union are not to be ignored for there is no preordained divine imperative that dictates the perennity of the United States of America in its current corrupted form.
2
Thanks to the Editorial Board for bringing this up....Again. This makes about the thousandth time it has. Voter Fraud is simply the Grand Old Pirates scam to suppress the vote of those who will not vote for them. Thus undermining our democracy at it's most basic level.
In other words: they cheat.
They have known for decades now that they really can't win a fair stand up fight at either the state or national level. So they cheat. They did so at the national level in 2000 and again only manged to eek out a victory this time by technicality's off voter suppression and the vagaries of the electoral collage. Be it removing names from the rolls like Florida in 2000 or shorting voting hours or locations or claiming fraud requiring ID: it is all a scam to keep the wealth and power in their hands.
It's hard to change things for the better when the lairs, cheaters, and thieves party is in change. But we can and must try. And complain loudly when we find them cheating.
Resist.
In other words: they cheat.
They have known for decades now that they really can't win a fair stand up fight at either the state or national level. So they cheat. They did so at the national level in 2000 and again only manged to eek out a victory this time by technicality's off voter suppression and the vagaries of the electoral collage. Be it removing names from the rolls like Florida in 2000 or shorting voting hours or locations or claiming fraud requiring ID: it is all a scam to keep the wealth and power in their hands.
It's hard to change things for the better when the lairs, cheaters, and thieves party is in change. But we can and must try. And complain loudly when we find them cheating.
Resist.
13
It is beyond obvious that the present Republican Party does not believe in democracy. If our apathetic citizens don't wake up soon, doomsday is just over the horizon.
13
I agree, Eskibas. Apathy is a serious enemy of democracy. My hope is that the Democrats will someday push for a more robust education for our citizenry in both "critical thinking skills" and "civics" and that it should start very early in the educational process, and then continue through higher education. A self-respecting, intelligent, confident, and educated electorate will easily be able to differentiate truth from fiction and quickly move on to more serious concerns. The GOP, in such an environment, wouldn't even attempt such a foolish deception. (The same, of course, would apply to the Democrats as well.)
Of course, the Republicans would never push for this approach because I think that they know that it would come back to haunt them, given their track record.
Of course, the Republicans would never push for this approach because I think that they know that it would come back to haunt them, given their track record.
1
A lot of severely biased and outrageous assertions in that editorial.
First a question, did the NYT had the same coverage and editorials when the Greens and Democrats alleged voter fraud in 3 States, and obtained a recount?
As non American myself, living in Africa, the US voting control, or lack of, is astonishing. In Africa of course, you have enormous voter fraud, allowed by the loose controls, like in the US. In European countries, France for example, you must properly register with an ID card, which is proof of your citizenship, and then you receive an “electoral card” you mest present in the voting booth, unless you are well known from several officials there. Only that ensure honest elections.
It is the Democrats resisting basic controls that seems geared to permits voter fraud, or at the least enables it. The accusation of racism and “vote suppression” is just a cover. Bur of course, NYT votes Democrat…
By the way, isn't plain racism to suggest that "minorities" are too stupid to properly register ?
I also noted the stories and headlines saying "False claims" from Trump, etc. and in the news shows the assertion that Trump lies about vote fraud. What strikes me is the deliberately negative covering. To say that the claim is false, or that Trump lied, you must know if there was or not voter fraud. And that nobody knows before the investigation is concluded.
The true story would be that Trump thinks that there was voting fraud, based or not based on any evidence.
First a question, did the NYT had the same coverage and editorials when the Greens and Democrats alleged voter fraud in 3 States, and obtained a recount?
As non American myself, living in Africa, the US voting control, or lack of, is astonishing. In Africa of course, you have enormous voter fraud, allowed by the loose controls, like in the US. In European countries, France for example, you must properly register with an ID card, which is proof of your citizenship, and then you receive an “electoral card” you mest present in the voting booth, unless you are well known from several officials there. Only that ensure honest elections.
It is the Democrats resisting basic controls that seems geared to permits voter fraud, or at the least enables it. The accusation of racism and “vote suppression” is just a cover. Bur of course, NYT votes Democrat…
By the way, isn't plain racism to suggest that "minorities" are too stupid to properly register ?
I also noted the stories and headlines saying "False claims" from Trump, etc. and in the news shows the assertion that Trump lies about vote fraud. What strikes me is the deliberately negative covering. To say that the claim is false, or that Trump lied, you must know if there was or not voter fraud. And that nobody knows before the investigation is concluded.
The true story would be that Trump thinks that there was voting fraud, based or not based on any evidence.
10
There is no evidence of voter fraud in the U.S. as many studies have shown. So there's only one reason to create a false flag of voter fraud, and that's to suppress votes of Americans who vote against republicons. You don't see any Democrats calling for laws to suppress votes, do you? That's because Democrats are for democracy and republicons are for Putin-style fascism.
5
Behind Trump's seeming narcissism lies his sinister motives to turn America into a Gambia or Ivory Coast, which made headlines because incumbents refused to step down even though they lost the elections. In fact the potential damage he would cause to America's democracy had he lost the November election would pale in comparison to the damage he is doing as a sitting president.
The timing of his "harebrained claim" aimed to justify his anti-immigrant narrative, which would enable him to be tough on migrants and ethnic minorities. At the same time he could set up barriers to discourage or effectively bar millions of Americans from exercising their voting rights.
Apparently Trump has already drafted a script that could be used in two years’ time to impeach the midterm elections should they result in Republican reversals. The same script could be called upon four years from now should he lose a re-election bid.
The timing of his "harebrained claim" aimed to justify his anti-immigrant narrative, which would enable him to be tough on migrants and ethnic minorities. At the same time he could set up barriers to discourage or effectively bar millions of Americans from exercising their voting rights.
Apparently Trump has already drafted a script that could be used in two years’ time to impeach the midterm elections should they result in Republican reversals. The same script could be called upon four years from now should he lose a re-election bid.
18
So, hold Mr. Phillips feet to the fire. Demand that he release his "proof" that millions of "non-citizens" voted. As you suggest, it is all likely smoke and mirrors with no there there. Come down hard on him.
66
The GOP has no shame, so the NYT can cease and desist from appealing to their sense of shame.
This voter fraud nonsense is just that. Another fraud being pulled on the American people by the GOP with the full throated cries of the Fox propagandists ringing in our ears.
God save us all, since common sense and decency are long gone.
This voter fraud nonsense is just that. Another fraud being pulled on the American people by the GOP with the full throated cries of the Fox propagandists ringing in our ears.
God save us all, since common sense and decency are long gone.
107
my guess is 800,000 fraud votes, and five times that fraud voters registered.
you think the numbers are far lower.
why not check?
you think the numbers are far lower.
why not check?
Democrats should not expect facts to stop this. They need to go on offensive here. If Republicans use voter fraud as cover, redirect it against the President. Question his legitimacy. Attack his ego.
Example: Why do you assume that dead people voted for Hillary? Isn't it suspicious that every single swing state swung Trump's way? How many dead people are registered to vote in Florida? What about Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania?
Example: Why do you assume that dead people voted for Hillary? Isn't it suspicious that every single swing state swung Trump's way? How many dead people are registered to vote in Florida? What about Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania?
135
how many republicans are registered to vote in multiple precincts, I wonders?
1
This is one of the most obvious and most aggressive approaches to deal with what will undoubtedly be a constant, incessant and undemocratic attack on things we have valued (yes Republicans, too) since the birth of our nation.
Ny Times: stop calling them "fallacies" and "false claims". Grow some guts and call them what they are: outright lies intended to deceive, distract, demoralize and divide, part of a larger propaganda campaign intended to create confusion, fear and uncertainty among anyone who might oppose him. Enough already.
585
So what will be the cost to taxpayers if Trump, Sessions and others concoct and conduct an investigation into nonexistent voter fraud? Since Trump claims there were from three million to five million fraudulent votes cast (and he has now said that none of the fraudulent votes were for Trump), how long will it take to find and examine three to five million votes? How many employees will be required to spend 40 hour weeks in pursuit of presidential happiness? What will be the cost of the paperwork? Will the administration guarantee that the full findings will be accurately reported to the nation? If an investigation refutes the Trump claims, will Mr. Trump then claim the investigation was rigged? Does the public have a right (and a need) to know the devilish details before this shaky ship sets sail?
Doug Giebel
Big Sandy, Montana
Doug Giebel
Big Sandy, Montana
240
How about we look at it this way, Doug? If all the three to five million illegal votes were all for Mrs. Clinton, shouldn't we welcome them to this country as three to five million exceptionally astute and wonderfully warmhearted people whom we should immediately grant citizenship to?
We should look for millions more just like them to come to America.
We should look for millions more just like them to come to America.
We would have to go thru every single ballot. I don't think the states want to pay for it.
a study that checks will cost relatively little.
I think about 800,000 illegal votes were cast, and five times that illegal voters registered. you think the numbers are far lower.
why not try to get a handle on the real number?
I think about 800,000 illegal votes were cast, and five times that illegal voters registered. you think the numbers are far lower.
why not try to get a handle on the real number?
1
I can’t really object to the Times’ characterization of Mr. Trump’s concerns of voter fraud as “fantasy,” as in this editorial. Mr. Trump is very likely wrong, and his style is unpresidential, to put it mildly.
That said, the Times should not be using the word “lie” in covering this story, as it has in multiple news articles and opinion pieces related to Mr. Trump’s concerns of voter fraud.
“Lie” implies deliberately telling a falsehood. If Mr. Trump believed his claims of fraud were false, the last thing he’d do is demand a full investigation. So, NY Times, reserve the highly charged word “lie” for circumstances in which it is clearly appropriate.
As for an investigation, is that really a bad thing? True, there have been multiple studies thus far. But given the concern, warranted or not, that the prior studies have been biased, is a full, impartial, and transparent investigation really a bad idea? If there is a desire to repeal voter ID laws, perhaps we should settle the matter, hopefully once and for all.
It’s worth noting that with the exception of England, most or all western European nations have voter ID laws. Most Europeans believe such laws are a good idea to prevent voter fraud, and many wonder why they aren’t universal in the US.
There is some merit to this somewhat overwrought editorial, and I hope, but don’t really expect, Mr. Trump to moderate his style. So should the Times’ editorial board. But, in this case, I’m not really bothered by an investigation.
That said, the Times should not be using the word “lie” in covering this story, as it has in multiple news articles and opinion pieces related to Mr. Trump’s concerns of voter fraud.
“Lie” implies deliberately telling a falsehood. If Mr. Trump believed his claims of fraud were false, the last thing he’d do is demand a full investigation. So, NY Times, reserve the highly charged word “lie” for circumstances in which it is clearly appropriate.
As for an investigation, is that really a bad thing? True, there have been multiple studies thus far. But given the concern, warranted or not, that the prior studies have been biased, is a full, impartial, and transparent investigation really a bad idea? If there is a desire to repeal voter ID laws, perhaps we should settle the matter, hopefully once and for all.
It’s worth noting that with the exception of England, most or all western European nations have voter ID laws. Most Europeans believe such laws are a good idea to prevent voter fraud, and many wonder why they aren’t universal in the US.
There is some merit to this somewhat overwrought editorial, and I hope, but don’t really expect, Mr. Trump to moderate his style. So should the Times’ editorial board. But, in this case, I’m not really bothered by an investigation.
2
I for one don't want taxpayer dollars wasted on this nonsense.
4
Mr. Trump's "style," Alex, is to lie. He does deliberately make things up out of thin air.
He makes things up and then believes them. That's what people who are mentally ill do.
If you're not "really bothered" by an investigation called for by this cuckoo bird nesting in the White House, then it is unlikely you would be satisfied with the answer that says, "There was no voter fraud."
He makes things up and then believes them. That's what people who are mentally ill do.
If you're not "really bothered" by an investigation called for by this cuckoo bird nesting in the White House, then it is unlikely you would be satisfied with the answer that says, "There was no voter fraud."
2
Why not just call it for what it is??? -- It's a fait accompli.
The Republicans have pulled out all the stops in assuming control of all three branches of government, and they won't let changing demographics stand in their way.
Anyone who has been keeping a watchful eye on their efforts to dismantle, the Voting Rights Act in several southern states, knows this to be true.
But is it not enough that we are now living in an America that starts to look less like itself with each passing day, as our civil rights and liberties granted under the U.S. Constitution come under attack?
Is it not enough that foreign entities have found a way to influence our election process?
And now, a select segment of our society is not only on the verge of being further disenfranchised, but at the mercy of a U.S. Attorney General who once called the ACLU and the NAACP "unAmerican" -- And all this is happening under the guise of eradicating voter fraud?
Forget all the euphemisms. Call it for what it is.
A fait accompli.
The Republicans have pulled out all the stops in assuming control of all three branches of government, and they won't let changing demographics stand in their way.
Anyone who has been keeping a watchful eye on their efforts to dismantle, the Voting Rights Act in several southern states, knows this to be true.
But is it not enough that we are now living in an America that starts to look less like itself with each passing day, as our civil rights and liberties granted under the U.S. Constitution come under attack?
Is it not enough that foreign entities have found a way to influence our election process?
And now, a select segment of our society is not only on the verge of being further disenfranchised, but at the mercy of a U.S. Attorney General who once called the ACLU and the NAACP "unAmerican" -- And all this is happening under the guise of eradicating voter fraud?
Forget all the euphemisms. Call it for what it is.
A fait accompli.
13
I have lived all over the country. I'm sure that at any given time, I've been registered in more than one state.
Soooo...according to Orange Man and Chief Propaganda strategist Kellyanne Goebbels, in ONE day, I'm going to vote in my current state of residence, pay hundreds of dollars to fly to my former state of residence to vote AGAIN, and then fly back home. I'm going to accomplish all of this in the SAME day.
The notion is so CRAZY that it defies reason.
Soooo...according to Orange Man and Chief Propaganda strategist Kellyanne Goebbels, in ONE day, I'm going to vote in my current state of residence, pay hundreds of dollars to fly to my former state of residence to vote AGAIN, and then fly back home. I'm going to accomplish all of this in the SAME day.
The notion is so CRAZY that it defies reason.
18
No need to fly around the country--that's what absentee ballots are for.
2
But if it is so crazy and defies reason (yes!) then Trump voters will believe it evey more fervently. Deplorables!
2
Jesse - and voter IDs don't work with absentee ballots. So why the IDs?
2
Non-citizens with green cards have the requisite i.d. to register in any state in the country. When registering, they would have to falsely claim that they are citizens. If they do that, there have been enough isolated fraudulent registrations to know that their false claim of citizenship would not be detected. From there, we know next to nothing. That is the nature of fraud. Unless we detect it, we simply do not know. But if there are millions voting illegally, all for the Democrats, that doesn't happen by chance. There is a massive conspiracy out there which could not reasonably be covered up if law enforcement investigated. If they detect such a conspiracy, the Republicans are right. If not, there is only isolated fraud out there. For some reason, there has been no such investigation.
As things stand, Republicans make unfounded claims of fraud and Democrats make unfounded claims that fraud does not exist. Get the FBI on the case and we'll know what the story is in less than a year. Or maybe everyone would rather argue and not risk finding out.
As things stand, Republicans make unfounded claims of fraud and Democrats make unfounded claims that fraud does not exist. Get the FBI on the case and we'll know what the story is in less than a year. Or maybe everyone would rather argue and not risk finding out.
4
There have been many investigations over the past 10 years. They're out there. Look them up.
In 2016, Trump's lawyers found no evidence of voter fraud in Michigan. Republican governor says no fraud in MI. "Let's move past politics." Kansas Republican attorney general successfully prosecuted only 4 cases of double registration after investigation of 84,000 cases. Republican governor of Ohio says "easy to vote, hard to cheat."
Gregg Phillips, voter fraud fantasist, won't release study to prove voter fraud. Trump won't release information he supposedly has proving widespread voter fraud. Yes Republicans make unfounded claims of voter fraud. They have been proven wrong again and again.
In 2016, Trump's lawyers found no evidence of voter fraud in Michigan. Republican governor says no fraud in MI. "Let's move past politics." Kansas Republican attorney general successfully prosecuted only 4 cases of double registration after investigation of 84,000 cases. Republican governor of Ohio says "easy to vote, hard to cheat."
Gregg Phillips, voter fraud fantasist, won't release study to prove voter fraud. Trump won't release information he supposedly has proving widespread voter fraud. Yes Republicans make unfounded claims of voter fraud. They have been proven wrong again and again.
2
Assuming that the illegal immigrant population is around 11 million, that would mean that between 1/3 to 1/2 of them were able to vote for Hillary. Does that really make any kind of sense? This is clearly delusional.
2
If I thought that there were illegal votes for Democrats, I'd be a nincompoop to want to fund a long and very expensive search for the perpetrators.
If I figured the miscreants were voting for Republicans, then I'd say, "Let's find the crooks and shoot them."
Really, Michjas, think through things.
If I figured the miscreants were voting for Republicans, then I'd say, "Let's find the crooks and shoot them."
Really, Michjas, think through things.
Just learned that Tiffany Trumpet and Steve Bannon are registered to vote in two states. So what is this voter fraud we are talking about?! Maybe, no I take that back, dictator Trumpet and the fascist Republican'ts should look in the mirror concerning this issue! The small minded deplorables should've voted for President Hillary Clinton and the Dems to save their sorry little existence instead of these liars, thieves, and fascists. Next time deplorables, stay home and don't vote as you aren't smart enough. And you will never realize what you've done even after it is too late. Thanks stupid Americans.
8
"Republicans may see these measures (voter registration requirements) as a means of staying in power in the face of demographic changes. They should be ashamed of undermining the integrity of our system of government by trying to strip away a right Americans have fought for and died to secure."Republicans are frightened by the possibility they will lose power. They have done everything possible to retain their influence. You can't shame them. They are desperate and are not above doing anything to hold onto their influence. Neither patriotism nor conscience has any influence over these politicians. Supporting Donald Trump's cabinet clearly indicates no concern for we the people. Indeed, they will sell their soul to support Putin rather than protect us from people who will destroy public education, voting rights, clean air and water, etc.
10
There's only one answer to Ivanka, Steve and others around Predator Trump who by being registered in two states therefore have committed voter fraud - Lock. Them. Up.
46
Claiming voter fraud is just another Trump tactic to throw the public off the scent of his smelly tax return. His unwillingness to release his tax return is the real and important story. More pressure by the media (and unsympathetic Republicans such as John McCain) is needed. Never give up, never shut up the USA media will not be muzzled.
41
I saw reporting from Talking Points Memo that pointed out that the President discussed eliminating the electoral college with Mitch McConnell. He clearly believes this lie. Not only can we not trust the White House to tell us the truth. We can't trust the White House to recognize the truth. Trump, it would seem, is not a liar when he tells this lie. He is delusional.
9
They will not be ashamed. They have no shame.
19
This is a good sign that you've begun to catch on to the rhetoric and logic that drives the careening Trump train. You are entirely justified in regarding every tweet, every random answer in Fox News interviews, and every bloviation at these "executive order" signings as though they were coherent, discursive policy statements and action plans articulated by a responsible head of government. In the absence of any other evidence, you--and we--are justified in drawing conclusions from the evidence at hand, even if it comes in bursts of 140 characters. You can even go further than that without violating journalistic norms.
For example, consider the evidence: Trump praises Putin (while at the same time attacking John Lewis, a bona fide hero of the Civil Rights movement); he refuses to release his tax returns; his campaign staff is under investigation for contacts with Russia during the campaign; Putin directly interfered in our election process and Trump's response is--perhaps--to lift sanctions. This is evidence that everyone has access to. Based on that evidence, you are entitled to draw conclusions as you would in a court of law, given the fact that Trump himself could easily dispel much, if not all, suspicion by releasing his taxes. What conclusions? First and foremost that his is in thrall to the Kremlin--that he is Moscow's man in Washington. To coin a phrase that should have a familiar ring in Trump's circle: He's Putin's Pup--Lock him up!
For example, consider the evidence: Trump praises Putin (while at the same time attacking John Lewis, a bona fide hero of the Civil Rights movement); he refuses to release his tax returns; his campaign staff is under investigation for contacts with Russia during the campaign; Putin directly interfered in our election process and Trump's response is--perhaps--to lift sanctions. This is evidence that everyone has access to. Based on that evidence, you are entitled to draw conclusions as you would in a court of law, given the fact that Trump himself could easily dispel much, if not all, suspicion by releasing his taxes. What conclusions? First and foremost that his is in thrall to the Kremlin--that he is Moscow's man in Washington. To coin a phrase that should have a familiar ring in Trump's circle: He's Putin's Pup--Lock him up!
42
Donald Trump is so scummy he thinks other people are too.
20
When do impeachment proceedings start?
13
If you want to vote then register, as everyone must do and go vote at your delegated voting place, as everyone must do.
Simple. If you want to vote then go vote.
Simple. If you want to vote then go vote.
5
But that does not allow the left to continue their "all conservatives are racists" narrative.
2
If you want to drink coffee, then make coffee, as everyone must do and go get a cup from the cupboard and drink, as everyone must do. Simple. The wisdom of AGM
We need national minimum standards for how voting is to be conducted in the United States. If it takes a constitutional amendment, let's get started. It can no longer be left up to the state and local governments to conduct national voting without national rules.
The Republicans falsely claim, they lie, that the reason they want voter ID laws is to protect the integrity of voting. Hey, where have they been the last 100 yrs.? It was only when the winds of change, demographics, began shifting away from their hidebound rural base, and the southern states also began to shift toward more moderation, that they raised the idea of voting fraud.
Everyone knows what the purpose of more restrictive voting is, even the federal judges who have invalidated many of the more drastic efforts. It is to discourage voting by blacks and the poor, pure and simple. We are now in a war to protect democracy and if we lose it, it won't be gotten back easily. The cost to reclaim it could be very high.
Is there any means for citizens to directly impeach a president? I know there isn't, but this situation indicates we need that ability as well. Even millions of people who voted for Trump might soon want to join in such an effort. Trump needs to be impeached by public disapproval and then, perhaps, the spineless Republican jellyfish in Capitol Hill might realize they need to follow along.
The Republicans falsely claim, they lie, that the reason they want voter ID laws is to protect the integrity of voting. Hey, where have they been the last 100 yrs.? It was only when the winds of change, demographics, began shifting away from their hidebound rural base, and the southern states also began to shift toward more moderation, that they raised the idea of voting fraud.
Everyone knows what the purpose of more restrictive voting is, even the federal judges who have invalidated many of the more drastic efforts. It is to discourage voting by blacks and the poor, pure and simple. We are now in a war to protect democracy and if we lose it, it won't be gotten back easily. The cost to reclaim it could be very high.
Is there any means for citizens to directly impeach a president? I know there isn't, but this situation indicates we need that ability as well. Even millions of people who voted for Trump might soon want to join in such an effort. Trump needs to be impeached by public disapproval and then, perhaps, the spineless Republican jellyfish in Capitol Hill might realize they need to follow along.
26
Also, it also didn't help when the conservative U.S. Supreme Court recently ruled that the "Voting Rights Act" was no longer needed. The GOP schemers then, once again, jumped into action to deprive a huge segment of our population, who traditionally vote Democratic, of their constitutional right to vote. This is how they plan to retain their majority political status in both the State and Federal legislatures.
1
Also, it also didn't help when the conservative U.S. Supreme Court recently ruled that the "Voting Rights Act" was no longer needed.
====================
That's not true at all. The only part dropped from the VRA was peclearance in some states. That was because it was based on data from 50 years ago
====================
That's not true at all. The only part dropped from the VRA was peclearance in some states. That was because it was based on data from 50 years ago
1
The claims by Trump that voter fraud led to a significantly higher popular vote for Hillary than for him are no different from his claims that he had a better turnout at his inauguration than Obama or that he had a greater turnout than the Women's March on Washington the day after his inauguration. These fantasies, which are easily refutable by real data and photos, underline Trump's god complex. It is Trump's extreme narcissism at work. Trump is now in a position to impose the dangerous effects of his mental disorder on the entire nation. Thank you Republican leadership for burying your collective head in the sand and handing the reigns of power over to Trump.
69
What is the Trump Presidential strategy? What is he trying to do? Just look at
today's NYTIMES editorial page. There are 13 articles about Trump. He is
dominating the media, and is the center of all discussions. Political noise like
this nonsense of voter fraud is mixed with more serious issues like the Mexican
wall and Obamacare changes. My sense is Stephen Bannon and Jared Kushner
are giving him advice.
today's NYTIMES editorial page. There are 13 articles about Trump. He is
dominating the media, and is the center of all discussions. Political noise like
this nonsense of voter fraud is mixed with more serious issues like the Mexican
wall and Obamacare changes. My sense is Stephen Bannon and Jared Kushner
are giving him advice.
35
They are attempting to claim an overwhelming mandate. Also huge deflection. Both in the pursuit of torpedoing social programs that don't put dollars in the pants of folks that aren't really needy. Truly greedy. The programs also actually have wide support among the populace
Let's go to war with refugees from a social and economic disasters all over the world, smugly tell them to pull themselves up by their bootstraps but the boots, they're gonna cost. Republican humor.
Who can honestly tell me the defense/security apparatus of this country needs more funding.
Trump really hasn't figured out yet, he's a minor detail.
Let's go to war with refugees from a social and economic disasters all over the world, smugly tell them to pull themselves up by their bootstraps but the boots, they're gonna cost. Republican humor.
Who can honestly tell me the defense/security apparatus of this country needs more funding.
Trump really hasn't figured out yet, he's a minor detail.
Donald Trump would want news about a pubic lice infection to make page one news in the New York Times. He is an attention addict, for lack of a more polite term to describe such a megalomaniac.
POTUS: "I am Batman."
Reporter: "Sir, there is zero evidence that supports that."
POTUS: "You don't have proof that I am not Batman. Have you ever seen us in the same room together? We will launch a full scale, major investigation into whether I am Batman with a report due in 120 days."
How long can this nonsense go on? And to think that this is all over an election that Mr. Trump desperately wants to be seen as legitimate and a historic testament to his movement, and yet he keeps questioning the very legitimacy of his victory.
Reporter: "Sir, there is zero evidence that supports that."
POTUS: "You don't have proof that I am not Batman. Have you ever seen us in the same room together? We will launch a full scale, major investigation into whether I am Batman with a report due in 120 days."
How long can this nonsense go on? And to think that this is all over an election that Mr. Trump desperately wants to be seen as legitimate and a historic testament to his movement, and yet he keeps questioning the very legitimacy of his victory.
354
skip trump...here's a chance for us to get behind a sentiment that everyone, both sides, expressed... that our elections may be subject to corruption from without and within...we the people can ensure that our newly elected/appointed employees investigate without bias (raise voices america!) any and all questions concerning the integrity of the vote and our election selections (who knew that h(r)c's her dnc fifth column were subverting the primary process?) and ensure that, going forward, these processes are safe from cyber and local stenographic interference.
2
Maybe there will be evidence of several hundreds of thousand non-citizens having voted in Los Angles county, Batman.
"POTUS: "I am Batman."" Why not use a real example rather than a mode up one?
"Mr. Trump desperately wants to be seen as legitimate and a historic testament to his movement, and yet he keeps questioning the very legitimacy of" How do you know what the president things.
As fare as voter fraud goes we argue about the level endlessly, or we can eliminate the potential opportunities for fraud by rigorously cleansing the voter register roles and requiring either credible ID, or submitting to a thumb print and being photographed to be used live and after the fact with recognition technologies to detect multiple voting at nearby locations. Both code be destroyed once the election was certified.
Suspicious registrations such as those of people appearing deceased could be flagged at the polling place such that the voter could be asked to explain so the issue can corrected.
"Mr. Trump desperately wants to be seen as legitimate and a historic testament to his movement, and yet he keeps questioning the very legitimacy of" How do you know what the president things.
As fare as voter fraud goes we argue about the level endlessly, or we can eliminate the potential opportunities for fraud by rigorously cleansing the voter register roles and requiring either credible ID, or submitting to a thumb print and being photographed to be used live and after the fact with recognition technologies to detect multiple voting at nearby locations. Both code be destroyed once the election was certified.
Suspicious registrations such as those of people appearing deceased could be flagged at the polling place such that the voter could be asked to explain so the issue can corrected.
Republicans ashamed? Don't be ridiculous.
They should have been ashamed when Trump spouted the birther nonsense. Sorry, virtually every Republican was silent- and they knew the truth.
They should have been ashamed when Trump got the nomination. But nooooo, Ryan, McConnell et al twisted themselves into pretzels covering for Trump.
They should have been ashamed when Trump outright lied about an election landslide and voter fraud. Nope, spokes-mantis KellyAnne was right there to offer "alternative facts". They should have been ashamed when Trump said the size of his inaugural crowd was larger than the crowd in 2009. Au contraire, Spicer was right there to say "who ya gonna believe, Trump or your Lyin' eyes"
There is no ashamed in Republican World.
They should have been ashamed when Trump spouted the birther nonsense. Sorry, virtually every Republican was silent- and they knew the truth.
They should have been ashamed when Trump got the nomination. But nooooo, Ryan, McConnell et al twisted themselves into pretzels covering for Trump.
They should have been ashamed when Trump outright lied about an election landslide and voter fraud. Nope, spokes-mantis KellyAnne was right there to offer "alternative facts". They should have been ashamed when Trump said the size of his inaugural crowd was larger than the crowd in 2009. Au contraire, Spicer was right there to say "who ya gonna believe, Trump or your Lyin' eyes"
There is no ashamed in Republican World.
80
Is there a more pernicious, hypocritical tactic than this lie of Trump's? This one, where he maintains this racist (at bottom) canard that millions voted illegally and were not caught? And now he must use this accusation as cover for more vote suppression bills, disguised as "voter protection"?
This is a democracy. Mr. Trump, if you don't like it, you don't, after all, need to be president. And we don't need Tamberlaine. We voted for a leader, and she received a large majority of the votes- Clinton. And she doesn't have a problem with democracy.
Why did he run, and risk winning? Now we all have to suffer for his stupid mistake. Yes, mistake.
This man clearly never wanted to be president. And now, he and we are all stuck.
This is a democracy. Mr. Trump, if you don't like it, you don't, after all, need to be president. And we don't need Tamberlaine. We voted for a leader, and she received a large majority of the votes- Clinton. And she doesn't have a problem with democracy.
Why did he run, and risk winning? Now we all have to suffer for his stupid mistake. Yes, mistake.
This man clearly never wanted to be president. And now, he and we are all stuck.
16
Is there a more pernicious, hypocritical tactic than this lie of Trump's?
=================
Actually, yes. The non-stop attempts by Democrats to claim that Trump didn't really win the election because of Russian hacking, fake news, Doug Comey, popular vote!
=================
Actually, yes. The non-stop attempts by Democrats to claim that Trump didn't really win the election because of Russian hacking, fake news, Doug Comey, popular vote!
1
Donald Trump trusted voting integrity when he wanted the recounts to stop in those states he won by a hair.
Donald Trump does not trust voting integrity when he sees Hillary Clinton's wide margin of victory nationwide.
He can't have it both ways. Either he supports recounts as quality control, or he admits he won office under dubious circumstances.
Donald Trump does not trust voting integrity when he sees Hillary Clinton's wide margin of victory nationwide.
He can't have it both ways. Either he supports recounts as quality control, or he admits he won office under dubious circumstances.
14
Hillary Clinton and Democrats trusted voting integrity when she was convinced she was going to win the election. Doubting the integrity of our election was undermining democracy.
After she lost it has been nonstop fake news -> Russian hacking -> Comey did it! -> Trump isn't legitimate
You can't have it both ways
After she lost it has been nonstop fake news -> Russian hacking -> Comey did it! -> Trump isn't legitimate
You can't have it both ways
1
President Trump makes policy decisions the way the National Enquirer decides what is news: if anyone on the planet says something that fits your preconceived view of the world (or might serve as a rallying cry for your ill-informed supporters) treat it as gospel and run with it. Trump plans to launch a massive investigation into alleged voter fraud based on the claims of one unreliable source, while all experts and officials who have looked into those claims have found no basis to pursue them. There is a term for going after people based on a hunch and a desired outcome: it's called a witch hunt.
10
President Trump makes policy decisions the way the National Enquirer decides what is news:
===================
Before you go beating down on the National Enquirer, you have to admit that it was the only news outlet that was willing to publish the real truth about John Edwards and his baby mama
===================
Before you go beating down on the National Enquirer, you have to admit that it was the only news outlet that was willing to publish the real truth about John Edwards and his baby mama
1
So a lie is used to set off a useless investigation, wasting taxpayer dollars and acting as a cover for legitimate voter suppression.
But what constitutes a "legitimate voter"? It bothers me that I can walk into a polling booth, as I did in November, with no identity verification. In most places, ID is required to make a simple credit card transaction.
I know I feel safer when asked to produce an ID. Why then is it too much to ask for the same before we vote?
I would rather see taxpayer dollars go to establish a national-form of photo ID. That should be an agreeable premise for everyone.
Whether that happens or not, it's not unreasonable to require a photo ID prior to voting. As you note, millions have died to protect our right to vote. What is wrong with protecting that?
But what constitutes a "legitimate voter"? It bothers me that I can walk into a polling booth, as I did in November, with no identity verification. In most places, ID is required to make a simple credit card transaction.
I know I feel safer when asked to produce an ID. Why then is it too much to ask for the same before we vote?
I would rather see taxpayer dollars go to establish a national-form of photo ID. That should be an agreeable premise for everyone.
Whether that happens or not, it's not unreasonable to require a photo ID prior to voting. As you note, millions have died to protect our right to vote. What is wrong with protecting that?
3
Despite your fears there is no evidence of widespread voter fraud.
"Most experts say voter fraud is extremely rare in the U.S., with one study by a Loyola Law School professor finding just 31 known cases of impersonation fraud out of 1 billion votes cast in U.S. elections between 2000 and 2014."
http://fortune.com/2016/10/18/studies-contradict-trump-claim-that-voter-...
I agree with your idea of a national I.D. as long as it is provided free of charge and without requiring Americans to jump through multiple hoops to acquire it that have been used to suppress votes in many Republican-controlled states.
"Most experts say voter fraud is extremely rare in the U.S., with one study by a Loyola Law School professor finding just 31 known cases of impersonation fraud out of 1 billion votes cast in U.S. elections between 2000 and 2014."
http://fortune.com/2016/10/18/studies-contradict-trump-claim-that-voter-...
I agree with your idea of a national I.D. as long as it is provided free of charge and without requiring Americans to jump through multiple hoops to acquire it that have been used to suppress votes in many Republican-controlled states.
5
How many people who had the temerity to vote illegally would it take to affect the outcome of the vote for a president of the U.S., Joe? Really.
Wouldn't there have to be a national drive to get those crooked voters to go to polls everywhere to vote for the "other" side? Could such an initiative be kept secret?
Logically, there is no chance that could happen or did happen.
Wouldn't there have to be a national drive to get those crooked voters to go to polls everywhere to vote for the "other" side? Could such an initiative be kept secret?
Logically, there is no chance that could happen or did happen.
1
In person illegal voting is almost nonexistent for a variety of reasons. In New Mexico, you have to give your full name and birth date. Thus you need to know the name and birth date of someone who (1) is registered in that precinct, and (2) is not going to vote in that election. If two or more people show up to vote as the same person, that will be caught. Is getting one illegitimate vote worth the risk of getting caught? And if you are undocumented, you would almost certainly risk deportation.
I am much more worried about the "helpful" assistant in a senior center in Florida filling out everyone's absentee ballot for them and having them sign the envelope.
I am much more worried about the "helpful" assistant in a senior center in Florida filling out everyone's absentee ballot for them and having them sign the envelope.
4
They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security.
Benjamin Franklin
Benjamin Franklin
11
Trump should stop lying about any voter fraud, which is made-up, and also stop lying to cover up the real election manipulations from Russia.
36
You think Republicans should be ashamed? That's a good one!
7
It is indeed a "good one" since Republicans now (as opposed to in Joe McCarthy's day) are incapable of shame.
3
The Sarasota Herald Journal published an piece 2 days ago wondering why Steve Bannon is registered to vote in 3 counties - Sarasota (Casey Key), Miami, and NYC. That article is below.
Yesterday, I read that Tiffany Trump is registered both in Pennsylvania and NYC,
Yesterday I also read that Mnuchin is also registered to vote in 2 states.
The Fortuen article is below covering that.
Aside form the age-old quite blatant attempts by Republicans to suppress voting among minority and libel areas, could it be that they see voter fraud everywhere because that is what they themselves do?
http://www.heraldtribune.com/news/20170124/column-does-stephen-bannon-li...
http://fortune.com/2017/01/25/mnuchin-bannon-voting-registration/
Yesterday, I read that Tiffany Trump is registered both in Pennsylvania and NYC,
Yesterday I also read that Mnuchin is also registered to vote in 2 states.
The Fortuen article is below covering that.
Aside form the age-old quite blatant attempts by Republicans to suppress voting among minority and libel areas, could it be that they see voter fraud everywhere because that is what they themselves do?
http://www.heraldtribune.com/news/20170124/column-does-stephen-bannon-li...
http://fortune.com/2017/01/25/mnuchin-bannon-voting-registration/
142
I always say, if he blames others for something, its because he's done it. I just believe the opposite of what he says.
5
i think about 800,000 people voted illegally in the last election, and five times that were registered. you think the numbers are far lower.
why not check and see?
why not check and see?
This essay ends by calling for Republicans to do the right thing, to stop being so anti-American and anti-democracy.
How can they when it is part of their DNA to steal votes through gerrymandering, and cancel votes through strict voter ID laws targeted at minorities?
They used to do this in secret. But now they are brazenly open about it. Essentially they are telling the American people: "we will game the system to our advantage.
They don't even care about the honor of respecting one of the few principles left in America that DO make us great: one man, one vote, universal suffrage.
President Trump knows damn well that voter fraud doesn't exist! He dishonestly is using it as carte blanche invitation to the GOP to increase voter suppression.
This country is becoming unrecognizable under Republicans. Put away your flags and flag pins, they are sickening in light of what you do.
We have a party and President hell-bent on destroying just about everything that is, or was, great about American democracy.
How can they when it is part of their DNA to steal votes through gerrymandering, and cancel votes through strict voter ID laws targeted at minorities?
They used to do this in secret. But now they are brazenly open about it. Essentially they are telling the American people: "we will game the system to our advantage.
They don't even care about the honor of respecting one of the few principles left in America that DO make us great: one man, one vote, universal suffrage.
President Trump knows damn well that voter fraud doesn't exist! He dishonestly is using it as carte blanche invitation to the GOP to increase voter suppression.
This country is becoming unrecognizable under Republicans. Put away your flags and flag pins, they are sickening in light of what you do.
We have a party and President hell-bent on destroying just about everything that is, or was, great about American democracy.
301
Interesting comment. Problem is we don't have and have never had one man, one vote. If we did, Hillary would be sitting president now.
The US of A is not a democratic nation nor has it ever been.
Trump and Republicans are just making it even more difficult.
And had the people voted that were denied the vote beacause of gerrymandering, restrictive laws and hours, Hillary would be sitting president now.
The US of A is not a democratic nation nor has it ever been.
Trump and Republicans are just making it even more difficult.
And had the people voted that were denied the vote beacause of gerrymandering, restrictive laws and hours, Hillary would be sitting president now.
2
i actually think fewer than a million illegal votes are cast in presidential elections. you think much less are cast. why not look and see?
"Voter fraud" is a largely nonexistent effort to blame victims and prevent the less fortunate from voting. Those who don't have cars or work jobs where they can't take time off work have to go to offices, often not open many hours, with arcane requirements for qualification. Sarah Silverman does a lovely vulgar takedown, with specifics (the vet who can't use his military ID, but a gun permit works - if you can kill, you can vote):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypRW5qoraTw
The Koch billionaire network has been busy providing templates to state and local governments. I'm not making this up: it's a real criminal effort to prevent people from voting so billionaires can get their people and it will only
http://www.alecexposed.org/wiki/Democracy,_Voter_Rights,_and_Federal_Power
The NRA and the gun industry promote paranoia to increase sales. They have more power than constituents, who are in favor of reasonable regulations. But regulations are anathema to profiteers, and god forbid we should inhabit a democracy!
Conscienceless kleptocrats are only interested in themselves and the wealthy interests that pay to get them re-elected. They're not blind; Trump is so obviously a conman out of his depth, vindictive and narcissistic, but he is a useful idiot for organized interests.
Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypRW5qoraTw
The Koch billionaire network has been busy providing templates to state and local governments. I'm not making this up: it's a real criminal effort to prevent people from voting so billionaires can get their people and it will only
http://www.alecexposed.org/wiki/Democracy,_Voter_Rights,_and_Federal_Power
The NRA and the gun industry promote paranoia to increase sales. They have more power than constituents, who are in favor of reasonable regulations. But regulations are anathema to profiteers, and god forbid we should inhabit a democracy!
Conscienceless kleptocrats are only interested in themselves and the wealthy interests that pay to get them re-elected. They're not blind; Trump is so obviously a conman out of his depth, vindictive and narcissistic, but he is a useful idiot for organized interests.
Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
95
It will only get worse. Now the foxes are in charge of the henhouse. John Roberts, are you listening? Do you have a conscience? We desperately need independent judges to put the brakes on this wholesale looting of our country. Patriots, please stand up!
210
Susan, your paranoia discredits you. We have had voter fraud in many prior elections -- mostly local -- but some major state elections (LBJ-48 for the senate) as well as possibly JFK in 1960 for president. I say maybe because they never finished investigating but the huge difference in Chicago vs the rest of the country re proportion of votes is disturbing.
Ultimately -- the real issue is ensuring the integrity of the vote. The dems are all ready to pounce on the Russians for hacking and Repubs for voter suppression, but seem strangely indifferent to our very lax voting rules. With the way things are set up now, fraud is possible. On how wide a scale it could be managed is another issue, but if authorities simply tighten voting rules and reconcile votes at the top level, the possibility of fraud (or fraud at a level that could affect even a local election) would be removed.
Ultimately -- the real issue is ensuring the integrity of the vote. The dems are all ready to pounce on the Russians for hacking and Repubs for voter suppression, but seem strangely indifferent to our very lax voting rules. With the way things are set up now, fraud is possible. On how wide a scale it could be managed is another issue, but if authorities simply tighten voting rules and reconcile votes at the top level, the possibility of fraud (or fraud at a level that could affect even a local election) would be removed.
1
Thia is another example of the big lie, it has one purpose, to convince the Trumpites that there is voter fraud. Trump and his parasites are on a quest to keep as many people from voting as possible. We are seeing this in several states, they are believers in this conspiracy theory.
It is as has been noted, the same tactics used by the Nazis, and other totalitarian regimes. They will keep it up, until we get enough legislators who have the courage to put a stop to this sort of restrictions of eligible voters. Such actions should be made criminal with, it is an assault on our democracy, it is treasonous.
People who promote this deserve noting but contempt from the rest of us, they are despicable people, with no redeeming qualities.
It is as has been noted, the same tactics used by the Nazis, and other totalitarian regimes. They will keep it up, until we get enough legislators who have the courage to put a stop to this sort of restrictions of eligible voters. Such actions should be made criminal with, it is an assault on our democracy, it is treasonous.
People who promote this deserve noting but contempt from the rest of us, they are despicable people, with no redeeming qualities.
239
This is the next big lie, the 3 million fraudulent votes that made Hillary the winner of the popular vote.
The previous big lie, stated over and over, was the Birther Lie. A sizable chunk of the Republican base *still* believe that Obama wasn't born in Hawaii.
Incidentally, even if Obama was born in Kenya to an American mother (nobody disputed that she was an American), he would still be a natural-born American citizen. I know this because I was born to American parents living overseas and my birth certificate on US Consular letter head says right below, "Notice of child born to American citizens living overseas." Down further on the paper is the raised seal and the signature of the American Consulate-General of Bombay, India. It also says that a copy of this document has been filed with the United States Department of State in Washington, D. C., which I believe is true, too. Why? Because my brother had the same type of birth certificate and when he couldn't find his, wrote to the State Department and they sent him a certified copy of his! We were both born overseas and are "natural-born American citizens."
Thus, even if Obama was born in Kenya (he wasn't) to an American mother, he'd still be a citizen and could run for president. Sad!
The previous big lie, stated over and over, was the Birther Lie. A sizable chunk of the Republican base *still* believe that Obama wasn't born in Hawaii.
Incidentally, even if Obama was born in Kenya to an American mother (nobody disputed that she was an American), he would still be a natural-born American citizen. I know this because I was born to American parents living overseas and my birth certificate on US Consular letter head says right below, "Notice of child born to American citizens living overseas." Down further on the paper is the raised seal and the signature of the American Consulate-General of Bombay, India. It also says that a copy of this document has been filed with the United States Department of State in Washington, D. C., which I believe is true, too. Why? Because my brother had the same type of birth certificate and when he couldn't find his, wrote to the State Department and they sent him a certified copy of his! We were both born overseas and are "natural-born American citizens."
Thus, even if Obama was born in Kenya (he wasn't) to an American mother, he'd still be a citizen and could run for president. Sad!
1
my guess is under a million fraud votes. your guess is much less. let's look and see.
1
The Constitution gives the executive branch a tremendous amount of leeway regarding its powers. This is done to allow the executive the power needed during extreme conditions. When the world is falling apart, quick and decisive action must be taken. But the framers never considered someone like Trump occupying the office of the executive branch. They also never considered that the majority party would turn a blinds eye to the lunatic occupying the executive office just to push their fanatic ideology through. Representatives were supposed to be only people of the highest integrity.
Add the these two factors together, and we have the makings of a dictatorship. Not a dictatorship won by military force. But a dictatorship put in power by a bamboozled public crying out for populism and facilitated by the majority party lusting after power in spite of the laws they claim to cherish. (Wearing that little flag lapel pin justifies their actions).
To entrench their power, they undermine the electoral process. Don't bother to vote, it's rigged. If you want to vote for the other guy, we will make sure you can't.
Our nation has never been this close to the conditions that precipitated the rise of Nazi Germany. We even have our ethnic scapegoats, Mexicans and Muslims.
The seeds of tyranny have been planted. It's here. The noxious weeds of totalitarianism are taking root. Don't be like the German Jews who did not leave. They thought it wouldn't get any worse.
Add the these two factors together, and we have the makings of a dictatorship. Not a dictatorship won by military force. But a dictatorship put in power by a bamboozled public crying out for populism and facilitated by the majority party lusting after power in spite of the laws they claim to cherish. (Wearing that little flag lapel pin justifies their actions).
To entrench their power, they undermine the electoral process. Don't bother to vote, it's rigged. If you want to vote for the other guy, we will make sure you can't.
Our nation has never been this close to the conditions that precipitated the rise of Nazi Germany. We even have our ethnic scapegoats, Mexicans and Muslims.
The seeds of tyranny have been planted. It's here. The noxious weeds of totalitarianism are taking root. Don't be like the German Jews who did not leave. They thought it wouldn't get any worse.
424
Don't stop there. We're headed to Sodom and Gomorrah, the decline of Rome, and Sicily. Trump signs a bunch of legal regulations at the suggestion of his advisors. He stands by as millions demonstrate against him. He says non-citizens are voting but sends no message that citizens shouldn't vote. His most important actions have been the rejection of a trade agreement opposed by the AFL-CIO and environmentalists and his commitment to build a border wall.
Hitler took office as a dictator after an election rigged by his police. His first actions were to dismantle the remnants of democracy, execute his political opponents, purge his party, and consolidate his control of the army.
Bruce, you're way off the mark.
Hitler took office as a dictator after an election rigged by his police. His first actions were to dismantle the remnants of democracy, execute his political opponents, purge his party, and consolidate his control of the army.
Bruce, you're way off the mark.
Obama committed numerous illegal acts that were impeachable, but the Democrats in the Senate would never have voted to convict because he was, in many cases, doing things that they would never have been able to do using the democratic process.
Republicans will join with Democrats in impeachment if Trump breaks the law. They are pursuing multiple actions to constrain the executive branch. Nixon resigned when the Republicans told him he would be convicted, and the Democrats let Clinton get away with lying to Congress, along with multiple other charges.
Here is a partial list of Obama offenses. He waived the employer mandate for 2014 and 2015, depriving the Treasury of revenue; violated the 27th Amendment by increasing the compensation of Congress by providing employer health insurance subsidies; made payments to insurance companies that Congress had not authorized.
He made recess appointments while Congress was in session. The IRS targeted conservative non-profits. The EPA created regulations not authorized by legislation.
We have spent the last eight years living under the rule of an autocratic dictator, and now you start worrying.
It is well within the authority of the President to authorize a review of voting practices to determine if fraud has occurred.
You do not like his bombastic personality. You do not like his executive actions and cabinet choices. Point to a single offense for which he should be impeached.
Republicans will join with Democrats in impeachment if Trump breaks the law. They are pursuing multiple actions to constrain the executive branch. Nixon resigned when the Republicans told him he would be convicted, and the Democrats let Clinton get away with lying to Congress, along with multiple other charges.
Here is a partial list of Obama offenses. He waived the employer mandate for 2014 and 2015, depriving the Treasury of revenue; violated the 27th Amendment by increasing the compensation of Congress by providing employer health insurance subsidies; made payments to insurance companies that Congress had not authorized.
He made recess appointments while Congress was in session. The IRS targeted conservative non-profits. The EPA created regulations not authorized by legislation.
We have spent the last eight years living under the rule of an autocratic dictator, and now you start worrying.
It is well within the authority of the President to authorize a review of voting practices to determine if fraud has occurred.
You do not like his bombastic personality. You do not like his executive actions and cabinet choices. Point to a single offense for which he should be impeached.
1
The only thing I disagree with is that you state the founders never considered someone like trump being elected. They actually feared that a trump would win an election. The founders addressed this issue by saying they thought the unwashed, uneducated masses could be swayed by someone using emotion, specifically anger to get elected and cause ruin to the nation.
The whole reason why we got 3 branches of government and an electoral college was because of their fear of someone like Trump taking power. They thought that the steps they had taken would help stop a Trump.
Ben Franklin put it the best when he was questioned about what they (the founders) had accomplished. Ben responded "A republic, if you can keep it."
It's beginning to look like we will not be able to keep that republic.
The whole reason why we got 3 branches of government and an electoral college was because of their fear of someone like Trump taking power. They thought that the steps they had taken would help stop a Trump.
Ben Franklin put it the best when he was questioned about what they (the founders) had accomplished. Ben responded "A republic, if you can keep it."
It's beginning to look like we will not be able to keep that republic.
5
Look at it this way. Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Kathleen Sebelius spent fifteen months concocting then imposing ObamaCare on us, ultimately splitting the nation down the middle and destroying Democratic power at ALL levels of governance for what could be a generation; and beyond those hideous consequences, all that effort is about to be wasted with an ignominious repeal. Donald Trump may spend a couple of months obsessing over voter fraud and not consume a lot of resources doing it, then it’ll go away. As curious fantasies go, Trump’s are cheap and those of others unimaginably expensive to our political civility and ability to move forward productively.
Besides, what if he’s right? After all, everyone (including me, gulled as was everyone by an MSM that called it so entertainingly wrong) believed that President Hillary Clinton at this moment would be rehearsing her excuses for why Congress was calling every single one of her announced initiatives DOA.
Besides, Congress might exercise its power to more uniformly define voting rules for national elections, which usually determine rules for local elections as well, but a president has no power to do so apart from signing or vetoing such legislation. So, why all the hoopla over Trump? It’s not as if he’s established a track record as yet of arrogating power to himself that our federal courts rule with metronomic regularity he doesn’t possess – like some presidents we’ve known.
Tempest in a teapot.
Besides, what if he’s right? After all, everyone (including me, gulled as was everyone by an MSM that called it so entertainingly wrong) believed that President Hillary Clinton at this moment would be rehearsing her excuses for why Congress was calling every single one of her announced initiatives DOA.
Besides, Congress might exercise its power to more uniformly define voting rules for national elections, which usually determine rules for local elections as well, but a president has no power to do so apart from signing or vetoing such legislation. So, why all the hoopla over Trump? It’s not as if he’s established a track record as yet of arrogating power to himself that our federal courts rule with metronomic regularity he doesn’t possess – like some presidents we’ve known.
Tempest in a teapot.
6
Typical non sequitur but Luettgen.
There is noting wrong with our voter registrations, there is much wrong with such opinions, they are the opinion of a petty satrap.
There is noting wrong with our voter registrations, there is much wrong with such opinions, they are the opinion of a petty satrap.
94
RL never disappoints in justifying the unjustifiable. Indeed, a federal holiday for voting, and universal suffrage, are goals deeply to be desired. Perhaps the Australian system, where people are required to vote.
A universal ID instead of forcing the elderly and working stiffs, those without automobiles, those with two or three jobs, to go to an office only open a few hours every week or three to meet changing ID requirements, and real penalties for cheating, would help. The organized attacks on poor people voting are dishonest and meant to deny voting rights. It's very well documented. For example, I have a common name ... and the Crosscheck effort has been demosntrated to be dishonest.
So how about the government actually exert itself instead of letting local partisans deny citizens the right to vote because they can. Gerrymandering, a lack of accessible voting places in poor districts, the list goes on and on.
The tempest is one of villainy, and it is coming from the top down, not the bottom up.
A universal ID instead of forcing the elderly and working stiffs, those without automobiles, those with two or three jobs, to go to an office only open a few hours every week or three to meet changing ID requirements, and real penalties for cheating, would help. The organized attacks on poor people voting are dishonest and meant to deny voting rights. It's very well documented. For example, I have a common name ... and the Crosscheck effort has been demosntrated to be dishonest.
So how about the government actually exert itself instead of letting local partisans deny citizens the right to vote because they can. Gerrymandering, a lack of accessible voting places in poor districts, the list goes on and on.
The tempest is one of villainy, and it is coming from the top down, not the bottom up.
158
Oh yeah, Richard, the evil Democratic program which gives tens of millions of people access to health coverage that didn't have access before, keeping people alive who may have died without it is destructive to our democracy. What looney tunes world do you live in where this assertion makes any sense? The Affordable Care Act was passed by Congress and signed by the President, after months of debate. The poor, foolish Republican Party was bamboozled by those fiendish Democrats. Give me a break!
79