A word to the wise is sufficient, but a fist for a fool is necessary.
7
Hey...every now and then a demagogue like Trump is right.
A fair, non onerous tax on slave labor countries like Mexico is the way to go. (not countries like Japan, Canada, Europe).
Protectionism or the other extreme playing on an uneven field (where we are today) are both wrong.
A fair, non onerous tax on slave labor countries like Mexico is the way to go. (not countries like Japan, Canada, Europe).
Protectionism or the other extreme playing on an uneven field (where we are today) are both wrong.
Very soon, The Trumpster will manage to alienate every friend an all that America has in this world.
3
"reshape the tax code to give businesses less incentive to move operations overseas while also generating revenue they can use to reduce tax rates."
There in brief is the most backward policy imaginable. LOWERING corporate tax rates to reward corporate repatriation of manufacture by automation that is the mainspring of job loss. Not enough that corporations improve their bottom lines by dumping workers for robots, but they have to further their bottom line by paying less taxes!?!??!
It's abundantly clear that automation will soon idle many more workers, such as taxi and truck drivers, and even doctors that will be replaced by AI.
These dislocations require restructuring the economy to make people-centric, nonrobotic jobs pay a living wage. Corporate taxes should INCREASE to direct some of their profits from automation away from the 1/4% and toward a refocus away from robotic jobs toward people jobs.
There in brief is the most backward policy imaginable. LOWERING corporate tax rates to reward corporate repatriation of manufacture by automation that is the mainspring of job loss. Not enough that corporations improve their bottom lines by dumping workers for robots, but they have to further their bottom line by paying less taxes!?!??!
It's abundantly clear that automation will soon idle many more workers, such as taxi and truck drivers, and even doctors that will be replaced by AI.
These dislocations require restructuring the economy to make people-centric, nonrobotic jobs pay a living wage. Corporate taxes should INCREASE to direct some of their profits from automation away from the 1/4% and toward a refocus away from robotic jobs toward people jobs.
5
If we are collecting border taxes, why are they being used for a wall and not for improving our infrastructure? Mexico is not paying for the wall, our infrastructure is.
7
Mr. Irwin writes that a border tax applied uniquely to imported products makes "the United States corporate tax code more closely resemble the value-added tax that is commonplace in other countries." How is that so?
The VAT, common throughout Europe, is applied to all goods sold throughout the respective countries. Domestic manufacture is not exempt and therefore not particularly spared the tax burden. The VAT is not a border adjustment; it is a universally applied nation-wide tax on consumption.
We can debate the merits of VAT, but let's not call it what it isn't. That practice is in the Trump Administration's wheelhouse of fantasy.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
The VAT, common throughout Europe, is applied to all goods sold throughout the respective countries. Domestic manufacture is not exempt and therefore not particularly spared the tax burden. The VAT is not a border adjustment; it is a universally applied nation-wide tax on consumption.
We can debate the merits of VAT, but let's not call it what it isn't. That practice is in the Trump Administration's wheelhouse of fantasy.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
8
Wake up this is not entirely about Mexico, a wall or trade. This is a smoke and mirrors way to lift the economic sanctions on Russia. Watch what is occurring, from Trumps twitters to Bannons horrible statement to the NYT, to "shut up and listen". These are media props, meant to throw us off the real point. This weekend there will be a conversation between trump and putin, watch, it's about to happen, sanctions lifted, and we are paying for all of it.
5
"The second lesson from the incident is that the Trump administration looks inclined to be flexible in finding ways to satisfy campaign promises without doing major damage to the economy or international relations."
Has Kellyann Conway taken over authorship of The Upshot? It looks that way, because this sanguine assessment clearly comes from the alternate-fact universe.
Trump's slanderous and false attacks on Mexico and Mexicans have already done incalculable damage to America's already tarnished prestige in Latin America. They have produced a political and economic crisis within Mexico, which has seen a devaluation of its currency. Now, foreign investment in Mexico, a key element in economic development, is in jeopardy. Weakening Mexico economically will only exacerbate criminality in a country where many areas are not fully under the control of the state. It will also drive more Mexicans to emigrate to the US, reversing the current trend of net out-migration.
And how could an sharp increase in consumer prices for goods from Mexico not cause major harm to the US economy, first by hitting consumers in the pocketbook and second by creating a climate of insecurity and instability in the entire arena of global trade?
This piece seeks to normalize Trump, an impossible task given the man's pathological personality. The NY Times' readers deserve better.
Has Kellyann Conway taken over authorship of The Upshot? It looks that way, because this sanguine assessment clearly comes from the alternate-fact universe.
Trump's slanderous and false attacks on Mexico and Mexicans have already done incalculable damage to America's already tarnished prestige in Latin America. They have produced a political and economic crisis within Mexico, which has seen a devaluation of its currency. Now, foreign investment in Mexico, a key element in economic development, is in jeopardy. Weakening Mexico economically will only exacerbate criminality in a country where many areas are not fully under the control of the state. It will also drive more Mexicans to emigrate to the US, reversing the current trend of net out-migration.
And how could an sharp increase in consumer prices for goods from Mexico not cause major harm to the US economy, first by hitting consumers in the pocketbook and second by creating a climate of insecurity and instability in the entire arena of global trade?
This piece seeks to normalize Trump, an impossible task given the man's pathological personality. The NY Times' readers deserve better.
5
What it really shows is that the Trump administration is ready for primetime.
Trying to "interpret" statements from Trump and the liars like Spicer he has working for him is like trying to interpret statements from a six year old. A border tax is basically a tax on consumption although it notionally helps exporters if one assumes there is going to be no retaliation from other countries which of course there would be. A consumption tax is going to drive up prices for a lot of goods that Americans purchase and would hit low and middle income people hardest. Didn't a lot of these people vote for Trump? Fiascoes loom.
6
So where in this article is the part about the prices of imported goods being raised 20% to offset the import tax and so American consumers will be paying for the "wall", not Mexico. Lost jobs here and there. Not "winning".
3
Trump supporters you voted for this buffoon because he promised " change".
Mexico is not going to pay for your wall as he promised during his campaign, you are by paying more for consumer goods.
Mexico is not going to pay for your wall as he promised during his campaign, you are by paying more for consumer goods.
2
constant belligerence, feed by resentments, Limbaugh, Coulter, Hannity,Trump et all, do they have any friends? Will our country have any friends when this is over?
4
Where did the #nevertrump folks go?
Women marched last Saturday. Democrats are voicing dissent.
But Republicans are falling in line and saluting the leader - no questions asked. This bodes ill for America.
At least there's John McCain and Lindsay Graham.
Women marched last Saturday. Democrats are voicing dissent.
But Republicans are falling in line and saluting the leader - no questions asked. This bodes ill for America.
At least there's John McCain and Lindsay Graham.
4
So, the pattern is: Present your most outrageous plan in a tweet. See if it outrages the public. Back off if needed. Repeat.
3
"Flux' is an understatement.
1
Mexico will acquiesce to Trump's demands. They really have no choice. Liberals are acting hysterical because they have never seen a politician actually do what he said he would do.
2
Can anyone accuse Donald Trump of not being exactly as advertised? From the very moment he announced his candidacy we knew what he was.
And yet 60 million Americans voted for him. That is the true tragedy… that people saw what he was and decided, for whatever convenient excuse, that they could live with him as President of the United States.
Donald Trump is not the greatest threat to America...it is the frightfully ignorant and apathetic electorate.
And yet 60 million Americans voted for him. That is the true tragedy… that people saw what he was and decided, for whatever convenient excuse, that they could live with him as President of the United States.
Donald Trump is not the greatest threat to America...it is the frightfully ignorant and apathetic electorate.
6
Good God, this has been a long week.
"Fluid" is hardly the word I would use to characterize the current state of American public policy around taxes, trade, and diplomacy.
Here are a half dozen more descriptive choices: "chaotic", "incoherent", "reckless", "flawed", "unhinged", "deranged".
Here are a half dozen more descriptive choices: "chaotic", "incoherent", "reckless", "flawed", "unhinged", "deranged".
3
In 1987 an american president said: Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall! The world cheered.
Now Trump will build a new Berlin wall in the US! Humankind will never learn, that is the really sad part.
Now Trump will build a new Berlin wall in the US! Humankind will never learn, that is the really sad part.
2
I believe an idea with which we can frustrate and perhaps forces conferences and interviews. We must refer to Trump's as alleged tweets, we have know idea he wrote or tweeted the. We can say that we would hate to quote the President. We make this claim every time he tweet. "alleged tweets reportedly sent by Mr Trump"...It would drive him nuts
1
Picking on one of our best trade partners is never good. If there is an imbalance, fix it, but don't punish the Mexican people for wanting to better their lives.
3
A megalomaniac president now faces the reality of "paying" for a red meat campaign promise, and a compliant GOP dominated Congress is scrambling to further shift the American tax and debt burden onto the working class. What a deplorable spectacle ... drip by drip, hammer blow by hammer blow, we're witnessing a veritable huge Trump train wreck in progress unfolding daily before our very eyes!
3
The man is a blithering, unfocused ignoramus or a total idiot.
His advisors are either stupid or criminally incompetent. The 20% tax ploy is a jar-dropping admission that they have no idea how international trade works.
Mexico has just stood him up as a punching bag and knocked the stuffing out of him (and us) by behaving like a grownup sovereign country should behave. So what are you going to do about it, Donald...start a damn war?
I knew it was going to be bad but I had no idea he, Pence and Bannon could drive us into a ditch so fast.
Listen, about those tax returns...
His advisors are either stupid or criminally incompetent. The 20% tax ploy is a jar-dropping admission that they have no idea how international trade works.
Mexico has just stood him up as a punching bag and knocked the stuffing out of him (and us) by behaving like a grownup sovereign country should behave. So what are you going to do about it, Donald...start a damn war?
I knew it was going to be bad but I had no idea he, Pence and Bannon could drive us into a ditch so fast.
Listen, about those tax returns...
4
What keeps getting lost in all of this is that illegal immigration is not really a threat in general and is a decreasing problem overall, as I note here in a heavily data-sourced piece: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/state-illegal-immigration-2015-reality-vs... Illegal immigrants put more into the system than they take and are less likely than native-born Americans to commit crimes.
3
A border adjustment tax would not mean that Mexico was paying for the wall. Rather the tax would be paid by the Americans who pay higher prices for the imported goods. US farmers would also lose exports to Mexico from retaliation.
"..to the extent that the Border Adjustment Tax causes goods and services to be produced in other than the most efficient and least costly manner it will lower living standards and productivity. By picking winners and losers, crony capitalism in our view, these are exactly what is accomplished by a Border Adjustment Tax or an outright border tax.
Several points are worth emphasizing. First, with a Border Adjustment Tax retaliation could be well coordinated. The World Trade Organization permits border adjustments for indirect levies such as sales taxes and value added taxes, but not for income taxes. A sales tax or value added taxes tax consumption by the residents of the country which imposes it, but not the residents of other countries. So disallowing the cost of imports for tax purposes would violate World Trade Organization rules as well as most other free trade agreements signed by the United States. World Trade Organization rules also require approval for any direct tariffs in excess of 2.5%. Thus, enacting a Border Adjustment Tax or say an across the board 5% border tax could invite sanctions on the United States unless of course the U.S. simply decided to withdraw from the World Trade Organization..."
http://seekingalpha.com/article/4039655
"..to the extent that the Border Adjustment Tax causes goods and services to be produced in other than the most efficient and least costly manner it will lower living standards and productivity. By picking winners and losers, crony capitalism in our view, these are exactly what is accomplished by a Border Adjustment Tax or an outright border tax.
Several points are worth emphasizing. First, with a Border Adjustment Tax retaliation could be well coordinated. The World Trade Organization permits border adjustments for indirect levies such as sales taxes and value added taxes, but not for income taxes. A sales tax or value added taxes tax consumption by the residents of the country which imposes it, but not the residents of other countries. So disallowing the cost of imports for tax purposes would violate World Trade Organization rules as well as most other free trade agreements signed by the United States. World Trade Organization rules also require approval for any direct tariffs in excess of 2.5%. Thus, enacting a Border Adjustment Tax or say an across the board 5% border tax could invite sanctions on the United States unless of course the U.S. simply decided to withdraw from the World Trade Organization..."
http://seekingalpha.com/article/4039655
Good for Trump. Keep these tin pot presidents of banana republics guessing. this guy is the future Churchill.
We are lucky to have Trump. The Times can't keep up. What a freaking time we are watching. You guys cannot keep up. Too wooden. Too academic.
Get some therapy.
We are lucky to have Trump. The Times can't keep up. What a freaking time we are watching. You guys cannot keep up. Too wooden. Too academic.
Get some therapy.
1
Tax cuts for corporations, tax cuts for the rich, no estate tax VAT tax an tariffs. lol, good luck to the middle class and our national debt.
2
Apocalypse Now...
1
Mr. Trump has not done his homework. As a result he is trying to catch up while on Twutter. While he wrestles with the problem he created, The Wall, we are witnessing his scribbled, stream-of-consciousness solutions. The impact is chaos. If you asked him for direction he's likely tell to go North, then South, then East, then West.
1
If not for his wall, who would remember Hadrian?
Everything trump does is a stunt with a very calculated eventual outcome. His actions are not 'normal' or benevolent in any way. He's an evil, manipulative man.
2
Living in the tiny border town of Naco, Arizona, I walk the border daily with my 4-year-old Irish Terrier Suzie. Suzie, like many dogs who come over from Mexico, prefers living on the US side, since animal care here is a priority. How did she get to my house? Just by slipping past the Border Patrol agents who were busy checking humans. So when we walk by the current WALL she gets excited and barks at her relatives who are still living in Mexico, as if to say: "Hey! Com'on over here! The food is great and I have my own house!" But then The Donald, unlike any other President, doesn't own a dog and doesn't understand them, just as he doesn't understand people. ARF!
1
Trumps tirades over this week, shows that he is not fit for office, but the scarier part are his backup team!
2
The New York Times needs to do some research. This proposal is absolutely not the same as a value added tax in other countries. The VAT is indifferent as to country of origin. This proposal would invite retaliation and possibly start a trade war. Seriously you need to get some tax experts to analyze this crazy proposal.
2
The President seems blind, or indifferent to the fact that ultimately, one way or another, it will be the American Taxpayer and the American consumer who will foot the bill of his knee-jerk egotistical attempts to fulfill campaign promises that nobody thought through... And the dominoes of international trade will fall.
2
With all due respect, the assertion that a border adjustment tax is similar to a VAT tax is wrong. The TIMES should run a correction.
Of course a border adjustment tax will NOT be paid for by the Mexican government or its citizens; this sneaky tax will be paid for by American consumers, in the form of higher prices on imports from Mexico.
Just what Trump voters wanted -- higher priced guacamole.
Of course a border adjustment tax will NOT be paid for by the Mexican government or its citizens; this sneaky tax will be paid for by American consumers, in the form of higher prices on imports from Mexico.
Just what Trump voters wanted -- higher priced guacamole.
2
Perhaps the confusion stems from a lack of a policy?
So let's see: all imported goods are taxed, raising their purchase price to Americans. But that means Mexico paid for the wall??
Well, because Americans won't be able to afford as many goods, all countries selling to the US will sell less stuff. So Mexico will "pay" for the wall in a way, because we've slowed their economy. And ours. So everybody on both sides of the border will "pay" for the wall??
Doesn't seem to fit Trump's trumpeting.
And raising the cost of living for voters isn't helping us, nor is it narrowing the gap between the 99% and the corporate elite running the country.
Well, because Americans won't be able to afford as many goods, all countries selling to the US will sell less stuff. So Mexico will "pay" for the wall in a way, because we've slowed their economy. And ours. So everybody on both sides of the border will "pay" for the wall??
Doesn't seem to fit Trump's trumpeting.
And raising the cost of living for voters isn't helping us, nor is it narrowing the gap between the 99% and the corporate elite running the country.
1
I know it's only been a week but I think it's time to call the guys with the straight jackets.
1
Are they giving lobotomies away for free at the White House? Sure sounds like it.
I predict there will be another round of Simon Bolivar-inspired Pan Americanism. The Canadians could join and basically isolate the United States as they create a common market for the Americas. This could in turn be an alliance with links to Japan, Australia, New Zealand, Thailand, Vietnam and India. China will be helping and investing in the Pan American Union; with an aim to isolate and weaken the United States. Trump will bluster and blunder about ending the Organization of American States.
Putin will be laughing as he watches his Manchurian President destroy the good old USA. All of this of course caused by the idiocy of our own - Cheney, Bush, McConnell and Ryan.
Putin will be laughing as he watches his Manchurian President destroy the good old USA. All of this of course caused by the idiocy of our own - Cheney, Bush, McConnell and Ryan.
4
The celebrity apprentice president is pretty deep in the doo doo right now, with no sign of a pony yet. Mr McConnell and mr. Ryan are sitting on the sidelines not wanting to get their hands dirty. Mr. Pence is in hiding somewhere, hoping the press won't be able to find him. How is the novice president going to negotiate his way out of the deep and smelly pile he has created?
1
A vibrant Mexico entices more Mexicans to seek their livelihoods there just like a vibrant Canada does the same. Think of it like locks in a canal, if the water levels are the same on both sides, when the gates are opened the water needn't move.
It was when we chose China over Mexico as an investment destination (immediately after NAFTA was signed) that the massive influx of "water" began.
It was when we chose China over Mexico as an investment destination (immediately after NAFTA was signed) that the massive influx of "water" began.
1
Charge a tax on all peoples entering the USA from Mexico. Way to go!
Other nations do that when building new bridges and charge a toll to go over the bridge until the bridge is paid for.
Other nations do that when building new bridges and charge a toll to go over the bridge until the bridge is paid for.
Chaos. That is all I see. Chaos.
1
Oh, come on now. Mexico will not pay one red cent. US consumers will foot the entire bill if this is how it's funded. It's rather obvious if you stop trying to sugarcoat it.
1
It's a balloon. A brilliant negotiation ploy designed to make a Mexico play nice. Then pay nice. Both will happen, actual numbers/details/timeline irrelevant now, tbd.
The tea leaves read,"Racist."
1
At the heart of Trump's base are white people who think America is getting too brown. They think the border is wide open and only a wall can fix it. That is why Trump is picking a fight with Mexico. All politics is local.
1
He who knows not, and knows not that he knows not, is a fool. Shun him.
- (Supposedly) Confucius
- (Supposedly) Confucius
1
Mexico should just give us their exports for free because that was how it was done in feudal times when tribute was paid to the feudal lord, or else.
1
Has anyone checked if Vladislav Surkov is on the Trump payroll? With the bliztkreig of information and misinformation (lies) coming out of the White House it feels like someone either has a direct line to him, or is following his playbook.
From his short story "Without Sky" - 'In the primitive wars of the 19th and 20th centuries it was common for just two sides to fight. Two countries. Two groups of allies. Now four coalitions collided. Not two against two, or three against one. No. All against all'.
From his short story "Without Sky" - 'In the primitive wars of the 19th and 20th centuries it was common for just two sides to fight. Two countries. Two groups of allies. Now four coalitions collided. Not two against two, or three against one. No. All against all'.
Earning the utter contempt of an entire people, one inchoate tweet at a time.
1
How to interpret the latest signals ?
Disjointed, Delusional and Destructive.
Disjointed, Delusional and Destructive.
1
This article is gibberish. I've read it twice now and can't decide if its incoherence is due to a bad writer or bad editing or a fear of offending Trump. Late Henry James is clearer than this.
"How to Interpret the Trump Administration’s Latest Signals on Mexico"
"White House Sows Confusion About Plan for 20% Import Tax"
Your headlines tell the whole story.
Trump and minions are masters of distraction, masters of deception.
The media rise to the bait every time, compulsively trying to figure out what it really means. In the process you miss or ignore or simply fail to report the more important information: what Trump has actually done.
Please stop.
He'll play this game to the death, if you let him, and we will all continue to suffer.
"White House Sows Confusion About Plan for 20% Import Tax"
Your headlines tell the whole story.
Trump and minions are masters of distraction, masters of deception.
The media rise to the bait every time, compulsively trying to figure out what it really means. In the process you miss or ignore or simply fail to report the more important information: what Trump has actually done.
Please stop.
He'll play this game to the death, if you let him, and we will all continue to suffer.
He was elected by boasting and so many fell for it. Everything he touches ends in bankruptcy court or with law suits; what makes you think that his pea brain will make America great again? He's making us a laughing stock!
You let this man, who won't show his tax returns, take control of your check-book? He can't see past his orange nose and now he's planning your lives?
He's taking you for fools. America, wake up!
You let this man, who won't show his tax returns, take control of your check-book? He can't see past his orange nose and now he's planning your lives?
He's taking you for fools. America, wake up!
1
Trump seems to know only one negotiation technique, Which he must have picked it up in the building trade. He advances and hits his opponent on the head with a hammer, leaving no room for negotiation. This zero sum game does not work for foreign relations.
Mexico will suffer in the short term, but China will be happy to pick up trade with Mexico where America leaves off. Then we will have a hostile government on our southern border. Guess we'll need that ridiculous boondoggle of a wall after all.
Mexico will suffer in the short term, but China will be happy to pick up trade with Mexico where America leaves off. Then we will have a hostile government on our southern border. Guess we'll need that ridiculous boondoggle of a wall after all.
1
Import tax is a bad idea. Everyone knows that. Trump and his people are showing to the rest of the countries that they mean business. This is a tactic so that other countries will think twice before asking the US for concession. I may not agree with Trump on many things. But I comment the guy for sticking with his promises from campaign.
Everything we make there we made here ,until recently.The price of trucks and washer machines from Mexico are much more now than the price here ,when we had the factories here. The towns which lost thousands of jobs and still are supported Americans for generations. Close the border and make things here .
Time to tell the power boys again that tariffs on imports from Mexico means we pay for the wall in higher prices here. Like all the oil boys --- not the tacos and Corona Light.
What an action-packed week! Donald's supporters must be in heaven. Their man is firing with both barrels. The action seems impressive until you look behind the curtain. And then you can see the reversals, the hesitations, the walk-backs, and the down-right pants-on-fire lies. The aggressiveness of his announcements feels like progress to those looking for fulfillment of his campaign promises, but it is a smokescreen meant to befuddle, create anxiety and confusion, and stir the pot. It reminds me of a child with ADHD put in a room with too many toys. In a frantic effort to play with all of them at once, he wreaks havoc and has a meltdown. We need to give this bad child a timeout ...for at least four years.
2
"Fluid" and "flux"? Where is the editor? Synonyms in the same lede?
Who put everything in 'flux', anyway. Or to make matters worse, who made them 'fluid'? It must have been Obama, that Nigerian Muslim. As Trump announced, he was right about being wrong.
Who put everything in 'flux', anyway. Or to make matters worse, who made them 'fluid'? It must have been Obama, that Nigerian Muslim. As Trump announced, he was right about being wrong.
I can interpret it for you: it means putting America first, standing up for America and for Americans, no more allowing America to be taken advantage of, and finally, no more international apology tours.
1
. . . and on Twitter.
Border adjustment is a fairly complex economic theory. fully dependent on a strengthing dollar and uncertain outcomes. To stretch this into a trumpian victory that declares that Mexico paid for the wall demonstrates that nytimes and its reporters are too timid. Call him out on this! He failed to make Mexico pay for the wall. Don't let him off the hook based on ideas he doesn't even understand.
Next, Mexico acquires Pakistani nukes to protect its border as Trump threatens invasion to seize oilfields.
After all its a great idea for more countries to have nukes, but whoops a drug gang seized control of them.
No nightmare is too fantastical at this point.
We have out crazied Kim Jong Un.
1
Yes prices will increase if the US builds more product in the US. The work force here is regulated by the government way more then Mexico. ACA, workmanship comp, minimum wage, pollution standards all add to the cost. We all know this is why the jobs are leaving the US.
If other countries don't have the same playing field then a tariff is necessary to even the playing field. If a company in the US pollutes and has child labor it is just terribly wrong. But we trade with countries that do just that.
if the local kids don't want to pick apples at 5 bucks an hour then pay them more. Hiring illegals to do the work just so an apple cost a dime less isn't worth it.
If other countries don't have the same playing field then a tariff is necessary to even the playing field. If a company in the US pollutes and has child labor it is just terribly wrong. But we trade with countries that do just that.
if the local kids don't want to pick apples at 5 bucks an hour then pay them more. Hiring illegals to do the work just so an apple cost a dime less isn't worth it.
1
Some confusion in the first days of a new administration is to be expected, but this is bordering sheer lunacy. It also doesn't help that many senior career professionals have left the administration over the last few weeks, such as the unprecedented exodus of top level management at the State Department (for some reason NYT didn't cover that story):
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/josh-rogin/wp/2017/01/26/the-state-d...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/josh-rogin/wp/2017/01/26/the-state-d...
The Mexican controversy is a dangling dangerous piñata. Circumventing this strange gift sack & navigating through the haze of a hologram of hate one must be a modern day Cortez. Perhaps a parallel response in the form of a new poetry of allegory & mythology can counteract the relentless tweets, the "alternative news,' & the fake news? Cause to effect rational & linear thinking doesn't seem to be working here. It is time for theater arts to take up arms & build an innovative wall -- a screen projecting politics, opinions & prophecies. Mexico is rich in symbolism.
3
Mr. Irwin, please check your facts on how VATs are applied by most countries. Contrary to your assertion that it is normal to apply VATs to imports, Imports and Exports are exempt from VATs in all EU countries and Singapore which are the major economies that have VATs.
Mr. Trumps 20% Import Duty should not be misrepresented as "normal" in other countries. It simply is not.
Mr. Trumps 20% Import Duty should not be misrepresented as "normal" in other countries. It simply is not.
A friend tells me that discussions on FB have been on the order of "A wall is good. It keeps the bad guys out. Like the Berlin Wall."
People who point out that the Berlin Wall was to keep people in are shouted down.
What has happened to education in this country?
People who point out that the Berlin Wall was to keep people in are shouted down.
What has happened to education in this country?
1
How to interpret empty-headedness?
Regards,
JV
Regards,
JV
Spitballing on Twitter is no way to make policy but the fact suggest that it's the only core skill this administration expresses. Spitballin' the country to death, one way or another.
Stalin caused the Russian People to starve because he ruiend their agriculture, Here we go again! I predict starvation in this country, as we loose our field works, and access to crops south of the boarder. Thus we have Stalin re-incarnate, who thinks they can dictate how a free market operates. He is just a bull in a china closet.
Of course US consumers will pay higher prices. The question is and always has been: HOW willing are American consumers to pay higher prices by "buying American?"
Looks like we'll soon find out. My hunch is that if Walmart raises the price of widgets from $2 to $2.25 because those widgets now are made in the US, most Americans will pay the $2.25 and pound their chests with pride at "buying American."
But if Walmart raises its widget price from $2 to $8, most Americans will buy one widget a month from Walmart for $8 and buy the rest of their widgets for about $2.50 each from some guy who ships them in from Bangladesh and sells them out of the trunk of his car.
I guess we'll soon find out, but I'll be quite surprised if I'm wrong. Americans don't want illegal aliens taking their jobs, but they also don't want to pay $8 for a widget.
Looks like we'll soon find out. My hunch is that if Walmart raises the price of widgets from $2 to $2.25 because those widgets now are made in the US, most Americans will pay the $2.25 and pound their chests with pride at "buying American."
But if Walmart raises its widget price from $2 to $8, most Americans will buy one widget a month from Walmart for $8 and buy the rest of their widgets for about $2.50 each from some guy who ships them in from Bangladesh and sells them out of the trunk of his car.
I guess we'll soon find out, but I'll be quite surprised if I'm wrong. Americans don't want illegal aliens taking their jobs, but they also don't want to pay $8 for a widget.
El Presidente had a Trump Burrito for lunch
1
It's not just that Trump is so stupid as to not understand that Mexico won't be "paying" for a fence any more that he or his criminal cronies pay their taxes - it's his supporters that are too dumb to grasp that they are the ones that will be paying for this boondoggle. Trump supporters: do you understand that if we tax goods brought in from Mexico then it will ultimately just raise the cost for you? Or that they will just sell their goods to Canada or South America or China?
I think I am beginning to understand why he has declared bankruptcy so many times.
1
Consumers are paying the higher cost today in the form of benefits to those who are jobless. The only ones benefiting are the business owners, and the exporting country's public enjoying a higher standard of living.
trump is nuts and everyone else looking for power makes excuses for him or explains the inexplicable. this needs to stop. he's nuts!!!
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I don't think things are "fluid". I think things are chaotic, mean spirited and potentially calamitous. The President who controls our country has little control over his own impulses and thinks he knows more than everyone about everything. I think things are scary.
How to Interpret the Trump Administration’s Latest Signals on Mexico? Getting real stupid would be a good start.
1
If someone like Trump were the leader of a country other than the US, he/she would be soon disgusted at home and abroad and have no choice other than resign. I envy the privilege of the US that such a person can still find a bunch of entourage and is somehow able to function as the top of government and pray this spectacle does not cause havoc in the world.
Flux .. is that spin?
"... he will proclaim that Mexico has paid for the wall as promised — even if the Mexican government never literally cuts a check to pay for new concrete."
And that's exactly how anyone with half a brain interpreted way back when he first started saying it.
And that's exactly how anyone with half a brain interpreted way back when he first started saying it.
You give 20% corporate tax relief across the board. On Imports you charge 20% tax,
in essence any company that decides to outsource jobs is forgoing the 20% tax cut by paying it back on imports. It's an incentive for companies to keep jobs at home. I see no reason not to like the idea.
in essence any company that decides to outsource jobs is forgoing the 20% tax cut by paying it back on imports. It's an incentive for companies to keep jobs at home. I see no reason not to like the idea.
With all the trouble spots in the world for the US, Trump picks a fight with a friendly neighbor, one who has been bending over backwards to try to work with us. Yes, there are problem areas in our relationship, but this is a friendly neighbor who was acting in good faith. We have now caused a serious loss of face for its President, one who made the first move by inviting candidate Trump for a visit. President Trump repaid that move by slapping him in the face.
It was a stupid move, one that I would expect out of a rookie, not someone who prides himself on his negotiating ability. He shot himself in both feet. The world is watching and Trump just keeps confirming that he is a loose cannon with no filter between what passes for his brain in his twitter finger.
It was a stupid move, one that I would expect out of a rookie, not someone who prides himself on his negotiating ability. He shot himself in both feet. The world is watching and Trump just keeps confirming that he is a loose cannon with no filter between what passes for his brain in his twitter finger.
Does Trump know that Mexico did not attack us on 911? The terrorists were from Saudi Arabia. Maybe it would help him if someone explained to him that the Mexicans are not our enemies. They come to California and work in the fields picking our produce. In turn, the prices are affordable in the grocery stores.
Trump is an incompetent businessman who bankrupted many of his own enterprises (while profiting personally) and now plans to bankrupt the American economy.
The minority who voted form him had fair warning.
The minority who voted form him had fair warning.
Oh, enough with the speculation.
You can't really make another nation pay for something on your soil unless they really want to.
As was ALWAYS the case, We the People will foot the bill for the useless "wall," and then the future 2,000 miles of patrolling and surveillance that will be necessary in order to have any kind of effect.
We'll waste billions that could be going toward improving the lives of people on both sides of the border.
Instead, we'll make life worse for peoples south of the border and will give more of a reason to attempt entry.
You can't really make another nation pay for something on your soil unless they really want to.
As was ALWAYS the case, We the People will foot the bill for the useless "wall," and then the future 2,000 miles of patrolling and surveillance that will be necessary in order to have any kind of effect.
We'll waste billions that could be going toward improving the lives of people on both sides of the border.
Instead, we'll make life worse for peoples south of the border and will give more of a reason to attempt entry.
I am perplexed that I see the NYT perplexed. Clearly, the edicts, pronouncements, even most of the executive orders, as well as the lies that come out of Mr. Trump and his press secretary, with cabinet members and GOP Congressmen now joining in, are not policy. They are not even an intention of policy.
They are simply a communication to Mr. Trump's supporters that he is their man. An affirmation of allegiance from and to Mr. Trump and Mr. Bannon to his adoring crowds. Their purpose is to make Mr. Trump's support swell from the radical alt-right as he co-opts Republicans and throws the opposition into disarray, dazzled by too many things to oppose at once.
The next step is not really about border tax, or even a wall, or a fight with Mexico or China. Those are the distractions and window-dressing. The real next step is the systematic dismantling of the holds and balances of our institutional order --and then, Mr. Trump's henchmen *will* make policy while the mob cheers him up as the Greatest Leader.
They are simply a communication to Mr. Trump's supporters that he is their man. An affirmation of allegiance from and to Mr. Trump and Mr. Bannon to his adoring crowds. Their purpose is to make Mr. Trump's support swell from the radical alt-right as he co-opts Republicans and throws the opposition into disarray, dazzled by too many things to oppose at once.
The next step is not really about border tax, or even a wall, or a fight with Mexico or China. Those are the distractions and window-dressing. The real next step is the systematic dismantling of the holds and balances of our institutional order --and then, Mr. Trump's henchmen *will* make policy while the mob cheers him up as the Greatest Leader.
It is not! fluid. It. Is. Insane!
Nice Putin school of intimidation with Mexico....proud to be an American?
There are no details except this 24 hour plan from our "Con Man in Chief"
Say we will make it great.
Say you won the election. No really. Say it over and over.
Say everything you do is the greatest and bestest and everyone
just loves you so much its a beautiful thing. Really.
Start a fight with "pick whoever and whatever you want".
Say how much you hate the media. Also tell them they are all liars
and lowlifes. Unless you are watching Fox in case you might take a
pass.
Sign a document that says it will and it must happen right away.
Say its just gonna be great and beautiful when you are asked for details.
Have a temper tantrum. Preferably several.
Send someone out to blame someone.
Repeat next day.
Say we will make it great.
Say you won the election. No really. Say it over and over.
Say everything you do is the greatest and bestest and everyone
just loves you so much its a beautiful thing. Really.
Start a fight with "pick whoever and whatever you want".
Say how much you hate the media. Also tell them they are all liars
and lowlifes. Unless you are watching Fox in case you might take a
pass.
Sign a document that says it will and it must happen right away.
Say its just gonna be great and beautiful when you are asked for details.
Have a temper tantrum. Preferably several.
Send someone out to blame someone.
Repeat next day.
There's good faith negotiation with the desire to maintain a positive long-term relationship, then there's extortion and not caring who you alienate. Clearly, Trump prefers the latter. That might work with a small contractor you want to screw out of what you owe them, but it's a losing strategy when it comes to international relations. It won't be long before Trump will make the US the pariah of the world.
The best way to stop Mr. Trumps gibberish is very simple, pay or convince
Twiter to shut his account. Anything he wants to do would have to go through
congress. and then the country will see who is what in the Congress.
Twiter to shut his account. Anything he wants to do would have to go through
congress. and then the country will see who is what in the Congress.
Why are not Mexican workers paid more? I mean, if you take a job from the US that pays twenty to thirty dollars per hour and when it gets to Mexico the worker is paid five dollars a day, no wonder people are unhappy. The parties responsible are both the business owners, largely American, and the Mexican rich, who control everything in Mexico. Let the facts out, the truth will not hurt poor people anymore than they are already hurting.
Mexico has no leverage here and will cave in and pay for whatever we want. Hardball negotiations against a third world country- like fish in a barrell
1
Perhaps somebody can conjure up an intergalactic threat that might help keep President Trump occupied and diverted from doing damage to egos and economies so close by and intertwined with our own. You know, maybe an asteroid or something.
Our space program could use a boost. At least it would be forward looking.
Our space program could use a boost. At least it would be forward looking.
The "wall" is a complete boondoggle. Most thinking people knew this, but not Trump supporters! They fell prey to his insane simple slogans.
-Mexico has said flatly that they would not pay for a wall
-Border patrol officials say that the "wall" would be ineffective
-The idea of slapping a tariff on Mexican goods to pay for the "wall" is utterly insane. American consumers would end up paying on higher costs for goods, including all those avocados, strawberries and vegetables available in January.
Does President Trump even know what he is saying? The world is aghast at his utter incompetence. What are we to do when the ship of state is rudderless.
-Mexico has said flatly that they would not pay for a wall
-Border patrol officials say that the "wall" would be ineffective
-The idea of slapping a tariff on Mexican goods to pay for the "wall" is utterly insane. American consumers would end up paying on higher costs for goods, including all those avocados, strawberries and vegetables available in January.
Does President Trump even know what he is saying? The world is aghast at his utter incompetence. What are we to do when the ship of state is rudderless.
1
Neil, there is no policy per se. L'etat, c'est moi. Whatever enters Leader's head, whenever it enters-- that's policy.
Glad American businesses get to read tea leaves instead of hearing a coherent policy. I wouldn't invest a penny neither here nor there until this president lays out his policy. Time is money and this dithering is bad for business.
What we are witnessing is the chaotic thinking of Donald Trump. He flips he flops. No President in history has had more half baked ideas. Trump is not a creative thinker so much as a guy who throws things against a wall in a splash of color and then has his spokes people twist themselves into pretzels trying to create some logic out of his pronouncements. Why not call it what it is. This is Mad Hatter policy. I keep having to remind myself that a Republican Party, if it stood for anything, was always for free trade and dead set against protectionism. Everyone is being sucked into the vortex of the surreal world of this con man buffoon.
Trump seems to have this idea that the US is so powerful that he can dictate anything to other countries and they will have to kowtow. He is able to hold this idea in his head along with his belief that America is no longer great. Let's hope that Trump isn't the new Ozymandias and doesn't initiate the real fall of the American empire.
So how is not an indirect tax on us?
As an example, let's say the price of avocados or GM cars built in Mexico rises up to 20% to absorb the tariff. Didn't we just basically pay the tariff, not the Mexicans?
As an example, let's say the price of avocados or GM cars built in Mexico rises up to 20% to absorb the tariff. Didn't we just basically pay the tariff, not the Mexicans?
Can't slip anything past the Times!
"Anyone who has received a final order to leave the country, but has not left, is also considered a priority [for deportation]."
I give up -- what's wrong with that?
"Anyone who has received a final order to leave the country, but has not left, is also considered a priority [for deportation]."
I give up -- what's wrong with that?
1
I would like to read policy proposals and the relevant details in a well-drafted, clear, concise and accurate policy paper. Not in tea leaves.
But that's just me.
But that's just me.
flux? This is not seeing a policy "in flux." This is seeing a White House and COngress with no idea what they want, no idea how to get it, and even less of an idea on the ramifications of their ideas. God help us all to have a couuntry when they are done with us.
Can you imagine the reaction if Obama proposed a 20pct tax? What happened to the GOP? Do they believe in anything other than power? I feel like Alice in Wonderland.
My interpretation of Trump's latest signals on Mexico: Racism.
Stock up on Avocados, Cilantro and Papaya while prices are still affordable. Buy a deep freezer Made in Korea.
Tragedy or Comedy ? Your pick.
Tragedy or Comedy ? Your pick.
The Trump administration reminds us that diarrhea is ugly no matter which end of the gastrointestinal track it flows from. Unthoughtful, spite driven, threats or retaliation that just jump into the Donald's mind and lack coherence, forethought, planning and do not anticipate future consequences are just not pretty.
Now the whole world is waiting for the next Twitter message, the next hurried Press Secretary comment (which may or may not be true) and the next rumor from a WH that swirls with wild and crazy ideas. This is not sanity. We Americans look bad because our government is bad.
Now the whole world is waiting for the next Twitter message, the next hurried Press Secretary comment (which may or may not be true) and the next rumor from a WH that swirls with wild and crazy ideas. This is not sanity. We Americans look bad because our government is bad.
Trump's foreign policy is very clear. It's my way or the high way. In one week he has turned America into a big, amoral bully (with more than a little help from his fellow Big Brothers: Bannon, Kushner, Flynn, etc.) Resist Trump-Putin and their war on facts.
So the spinning begins. The Trump team is revving up the Trump supercollider. There it goes…. Now just lay back and look deeply into Sean Spicers’ eyes…yes, yes…relax. Now you will start to believe that the great Trump is building a wall paid for by Mexico because that is the great plan…the tremendous plan…Its going to be terrific….
If he reads the NYT daily, I hope he is also reading the comments and has a sense of the frustration and confusion he is sowing. Or maybe that's the aim of all his nonsense?
The campaign promise was that Mexico would pay for his wall.
I wonder if an explanation for the end of the day backtracking is that the 20% tariff was cooked up on the fly during the course of the day, when the president of Mexico had snubbed us (I don't buy for a minute President Trump's claim that the cancellation was a mutual decision) and the tariff was an attempt to return fire. It was only a few hours later they realized that with the way an import tax works this really meant that AMERICANS, not Mexico, would be paying for the wall, and for this and other reasons they backtracked. What a disaster! The only good news in the whole thing is that at least they had the common sense to do some damage control. And this Bannon person says they media needs to shut up? Can you imagine this crew stumbling along with this kind of ineptitude and the fate of our country in their hands without the media to check them not just on a daily but now on an hourly basis, as the Times and other outlets had to do on Thursday?
When you vote for a President who has neither intelligence nor integrity, thats what you get.
After 15 years of watching the republicans like John McCain and Lindsey Graham make flowery speeches about the desperate need for "immigration reform", followed up by Democrats who spout the same Kumbaya tune, I welcome real actions that make sense to the people who actually live here on the border.
Perhaps the press is aghast to see the direct talk, the bravado, the call for the wall, etc, but it is so far overdue that only the "out-of-touch" crowd in the beltway echo chamber can not hear the music.
It's fine if the press needs to find a new intellectual home to nest in, but remember who brought you this Mexico story. It's from the man you have degraded, denounced, defiled and disdained for the last two interminable years: our new president.
While the situation here has degraded year by year, and especially during the last eight, former President Obama seemed more concerned with sparing no expense in providing an 8 year platform (most recently at Stanford) for foreign entrepreneurs at the Global Entrepreneurship Summits than helping the American middle class in his flyover territory. He, like most of the press that covered him, fell victim to the now-disproven "Flat Earth-Flat Screen" thinking advanced by the NYT's own Thomas Freidman.
For 12 years, slumber reigned in DC as this intellectual hoax feigned ignorance of basic realities down here at the border. The press echoed the echo machine of political types who think like Friedman. No more of that, thanks to DJT.
Perhaps the press is aghast to see the direct talk, the bravado, the call for the wall, etc, but it is so far overdue that only the "out-of-touch" crowd in the beltway echo chamber can not hear the music.
It's fine if the press needs to find a new intellectual home to nest in, but remember who brought you this Mexico story. It's from the man you have degraded, denounced, defiled and disdained for the last two interminable years: our new president.
While the situation here has degraded year by year, and especially during the last eight, former President Obama seemed more concerned with sparing no expense in providing an 8 year platform (most recently at Stanford) for foreign entrepreneurs at the Global Entrepreneurship Summits than helping the American middle class in his flyover territory. He, like most of the press that covered him, fell victim to the now-disproven "Flat Earth-Flat Screen" thinking advanced by the NYT's own Thomas Freidman.
For 12 years, slumber reigned in DC as this intellectual hoax feigned ignorance of basic realities down here at the border. The press echoed the echo machine of political types who think like Friedman. No more of that, thanks to DJT.
The "Devils" in the details. Oh God did I just say that!
Tomorrow is TGIF. Can't wait. Maybe this super duper dysfunctional administration will give us a break over the weekend from all this. Hopefully.
Tomorrow is TGIF. Can't wait. Maybe this super duper dysfunctional administration will give us a break over the weekend from all this. Hopefully.
Trump is playing hardball and I love it. American taxpayers are sick of getting their pockets picked by illegal immigrants.
1
Maybe I missed it, but did Trump also announce a 20% raise for all workers in the US so we can afford to pay for this?
there is no need to interpret anything. The Mexican government has been extremely corrupt for years and liberals in the US have been subsidizing the corruption by allowing illegal immigration. The illegals send money back to Mexico supporting families allowing the corrupt government to exist. It a US national tragedy that we have done this to others. Trump is going to stop this disgrace and stop illegals forcing Mexicans to do something to fix their national corruption. Democrats supported the illegal immigration to buy votes and fix elections long term. Sorry, but it won't work now.
Frankly, I'd rather pay a VAT voluntarily by choosing to buy something than being forced to pay taxes that, in sum, now take half my income. Unfortunately, new taxes never mean an end to old taxes and ,more importantly, I just don't trust anything the Trump administration says when it's already lying about the small things.
For God's sake, stop trying to make sense of this. Policies are not in flux. There are no policies. There is only the chaos of mental illness.
You can't interpret random gibberish.
Dan Kravitz
Dan Kravitz
I might move to Mexico just so I don't have to join the American middle-class taxpayer in paying for this wall.
Yes, it is time to build a wall--a giant one around Trump's mouth and those of his spokespeople since they believe in words being fungible.
I must be ignorant because I do not understand the basis on which the stock market is going up with Trump as president despite the enormous uncertainty (euphemism "fluid") he and his administration are creating here and abroad.
How to interpret it? There's no policy. There's no plan. There never was.
My grandchildren are to be trusted more with the economy than these Keystone Cops. They're worse than incompetent. Vote them out asap.
This is a rationale article by Irwin. However the liberal die hard commentators here try to spin it, Trump is working hard to follow through with actions, not words, regardless of whether the losing party's followers agree or not.
Why aren't any of us blaming Mexico for refusing to pay for it, it's their wall too. Likewise why aren't any of us mad that Mexico has made life so hard for its own people that they feel compelled to have to flee there for here in order to earn a living wage. We're bad if we don't want to take refugees. What about the people that turned its citizens into refugees? They seem blameless in our eyes. Right now our sole focus is on dumping on Trump.
This new administration is pulling stuff out of their butts (making it up as they go). There is no plan.
Obviously, I would rather have a president that was more concerned with making the economy strong than one focused solely on fulfilling inane campaign promises.
His rabid base isn't that big. I see approval ratings crashing down on him very quickly. Can this last 4 year?
When is the next march?
Obviously, I would rather have a president that was more concerned with making the economy strong than one focused solely on fulfilling inane campaign promises.
His rabid base isn't that big. I see approval ratings crashing down on him very quickly. Can this last 4 year?
When is the next march?
Mexico's president cancels his trip to meet Trump. Trump then knowingly lies to his Republican cronies, telling them "they" decided to postpone the event. Is there a day gone by since last Friday Trump has not told a knowing verifiable lie? What is wrong with this guy? Does he even know that we know he's lying? If not, then please someone get this deranged personality to a psychiatrist pronto.
DD
Manhattan
DD
Manhattan
the unfinished tall iron wall
that NYT and others like to show the pictures of-
was started by some previous administration before trump,
why can't this project be continued.
Borders need to be protected, otherwise they do not exist.
that NYT and others like to show the pictures of-
was started by some previous administration before trump,
why can't this project be continued.
Borders need to be protected, otherwise they do not exist.
Democratic union leaders were fulsome in praise of Trump after meeting them this week, and loved his killing of that Pacific trade treaty and promises to renegotiate NAFTA. They also praised his successful efforts to keep U.S. factories in the U.S. and bring in new foreign investment for factories here.
NY Times readers should remember that such policies are wildly popular among workers in the midwest, the former Blue Wall in the "permanent" Dem electoral college.
If T the rump keeps up policies focusing on jobs and immigrants, he'll sweep the 2018 midterms and easily win reelection, while privileged East and West coast commenters continue to cal him insane and a baboon. They're denying the reality off a hollowed out mid America and Trump's excellent moves in his first days to reinvigorattge the American heartland.
I suggest you stop insulting Trump and try to see how his policies are affecting Americans throughout the country, not only on the coasts.
NY Times readers should remember that such policies are wildly popular among workers in the midwest, the former Blue Wall in the "permanent" Dem electoral college.
If T the rump keeps up policies focusing on jobs and immigrants, he'll sweep the 2018 midterms and easily win reelection, while privileged East and West coast commenters continue to cal him insane and a baboon. They're denying the reality off a hollowed out mid America and Trump's excellent moves in his first days to reinvigorattge the American heartland.
I suggest you stop insulting Trump and try to see how his policies are affecting Americans throughout the country, not only on the coasts.
Arguing on a Proposition, something like, ‘what’s sauce for th goose, is sauce ...’ etc.
Isn’t it just & fair that, if Mexico initiates an inchoate SOUTHERN WALL PLAN,
as uncertain as the US's scheme,
won’t Mejico be RIGHT to expect th US to PAY for it?
After all, given th real Mexican economy, how might they implement their plan, w/o some U.S. goodwill (i.e., funding, meaning some greenback dollars?
May Mejico appeal to that very history I learnt, growing up in th 50s, in bordertown Del Rio Tx? In my Spanish One class textbook (“El Camino Real” by title) I remember well the phrase, an allusion refering to the whole of ‘their’ population, “Our friendly neighbors to the SOUTH”.
[In 2017, here substitute NORTH, as th sauce--to keep our Proposition orderly!]
Believing this proposition isn’t deluded, we'd go further, regarding 2 walls (a North & a South), & say that building th Southern one will provide jobs galore.
Trump may believe, or know already, many ‘nationals’ are rushing northward, which stream will defray costs of transporting this unwieldy sector, of people, hands, obreros, to its jobsite.
With only minimum foresight imagining, & so building
our Gander Project! a 2-walled grandeur! &
with TWO walls accomplished, they may serve as Two Banks of a New Rio Bravo. Lo! an ad hoc infrastructure--an asset, against agricultural & climatological NEEDS that
we neighbors have IN COMMON & will share long into the uncertainly measurable future. what’s not to like?
Isn’t it just & fair that, if Mexico initiates an inchoate SOUTHERN WALL PLAN,
as uncertain as the US's scheme,
won’t Mejico be RIGHT to expect th US to PAY for it?
After all, given th real Mexican economy, how might they implement their plan, w/o some U.S. goodwill (i.e., funding, meaning some greenback dollars?
May Mejico appeal to that very history I learnt, growing up in th 50s, in bordertown Del Rio Tx? In my Spanish One class textbook (“El Camino Real” by title) I remember well the phrase, an allusion refering to the whole of ‘their’ population, “Our friendly neighbors to the SOUTH”.
[In 2017, here substitute NORTH, as th sauce--to keep our Proposition orderly!]
Believing this proposition isn’t deluded, we'd go further, regarding 2 walls (a North & a South), & say that building th Southern one will provide jobs galore.
Trump may believe, or know already, many ‘nationals’ are rushing northward, which stream will defray costs of transporting this unwieldy sector, of people, hands, obreros, to its jobsite.
With only minimum foresight imagining, & so building
our Gander Project! a 2-walled grandeur! &
with TWO walls accomplished, they may serve as Two Banks of a New Rio Bravo. Lo! an ad hoc infrastructure--an asset, against agricultural & climatological NEEDS that
we neighbors have IN COMMON & will share long into the uncertainly measurable future. what’s not to like?
Are we emulating North Korea?
I get it. It's us, US consumers, who will pay for the wall buying anything made or grown in Mexico, whether produced by a US company or not.
A vibrant Mexico entices more Mexicans to seek their livelihoods there just like a vibrant Canada does the same. Think of it like locks in a canal, if the water levels are the same on both sides, when the gates are opened the water needn't move.
It was when we chose China over Mexico as an investment destination (immediately after NAFTA was signed) that the massive influx of "water" began.
It was when we chose China over Mexico as an investment destination (immediately after NAFTA was signed) that the massive influx of "water" began.
The stupid, it hurts.
This is all sadly a moot point. Trump, a cartoon and snake oil salesman, is taking my nation into a dark, violent world for his own ego and money grab. He is aging and hates that fact. He is a muppet. Mexico is not the blame. Mexico is sun in a cold winter. Mexicans are good, strong people who always believe in a better day. We must not let this relationship die at the hands of 14 pathetic people who never thought they would get this far. Do not make history repeat itself
Why are you still trying to read the tea leaves in this hurricane? there is no subtle thought process, no long game, no thought. it's like trying to figure out if your cat is hungry or wants to go outside because it keeps peeing on your bed.
Mexicans can take a very quick step and stop buying any American products exported to them. The American businesses would have to cut production and many people would lose their jobs. Wait for a YUGE boycott of American products worldwide.
A campaign by baloney sandwich has evolved? into government by trial balloon. The rest of the world waits and wonders, but it will have yo learn not to take anything said too seriously. Woe unto US when something is meant to be take seriously. How will that be signaled? Houston, we have a serious communications problem. Please advise.
It is all good China has made a nice nest in Mexico and now a nice vacation home now we will be deprived of a lot of goods and or pay up the ying yang.
Trump is proving himself to be a certified moron.
Life-long Republican
Life-long Republican
well if the united want to impose 20% tax in all good, it is just very simple imposed tax on united states as well, that along with visa traveling and if the united wants to retreat from the world arena of business let them do it and we will see that the world will keep rolling with or without the united states.
let the united states join Venezuela as their new friends.
let the united states join Venezuela as their new friends.
This article should be inside the main front page article about Trump's dealing with Mexico.
Could you please stop trying to "interpret" every little word, gesture, and "signal" that comes from the new WH? Just stick to reporting the facts. The rest of us will be grateful for more facts, less hysteria.
Is it going to take starting a war with Mexico before people, including people at the NYT, acknowledge that our government is in the hands of a mad man? His is spinner no out of control so quickly it's frightening.
He's going to claim victory no matter what happens. He'll just lie.
What I think is fun is that any tariff coming out of Mexico will hit Texas particularly hard. I'm from Texas, so I hate to see them suffer. But if that is what it takes to turn that state blue, bring it ON!
All of this anti immigrant stuff is going to completely blow up the Republicans' face. Just ask Pete Wilson. It's a great way to motivate immigrants to vote. I hope I live to see my home state a bright, big, blue dot on the map.
And furthermore, my family is in the oil business. They are laughing at the Keystone pipeline order. The price of oil is so low, it doesn't even make sense to build it. Bu,t I don't expect Trump et al to actually do any critical thinking, of course.
What I think is fun is that any tariff coming out of Mexico will hit Texas particularly hard. I'm from Texas, so I hate to see them suffer. But if that is what it takes to turn that state blue, bring it ON!
All of this anti immigrant stuff is going to completely blow up the Republicans' face. Just ask Pete Wilson. It's a great way to motivate immigrants to vote. I hope I live to see my home state a bright, big, blue dot on the map.
And furthermore, my family is in the oil business. They are laughing at the Keystone pipeline order. The price of oil is so low, it doesn't even make sense to build it. Bu,t I don't expect Trump et al to actually do any critical thinking, of course.
The only way to interpret the trump administration is to think of a ship of fools, spinning in a giant vortex that they never imagined existed - hanging on madly and all of them called conflicting orders.
This isn't government, unfortunately it is our new 'reality TV'.
This isn't government, unfortunately it is our new 'reality TV'.
Wall Street does not like conflicting messages and fluid situations. When will the markets begin react to all this uncertainty?
It is difficult to keep everyone happy. Is it not normal for a US President to keep US interests first ? Thousands of people that have lost their jobs in the manufacturing sector are probably happy that finally someone is trying to look out for US interests first.
I am thinking about building a wall around my property and making my neighbors pay for it, but my neighbors are Mexicans and quick to anger, so I may hold off for a while.
I am old enough to remember the days in NYC when con men would set up a collapsible table on a street corner and play "Three Card Monte". All it took was the table, three cards, a shill in the audience to bring in and distract the "suckers" and a fast talking slight of hand con man. The bait was the ego that wanted to outsmart the "smart man".
The only way to "win" was to see the game for what it was and to bet on your own intelligence by moving on back into the reality of the real world. This is the job of the press and our political leaders - a tough job in what now seems to be a culture of distraction.
The only way to "win" was to see the game for what it was and to bet on your own intelligence by moving on back into the reality of the real world. This is the job of the press and our political leaders - a tough job in what now seems to be a culture of distraction.
This week one right? Everyday is another banner Trumpian 'where did that come from' headline day. To the NYtimes - hang in there and don't ever give up investigative and factual reporting.
Former President of Mexico: Vincente Fox...has made the correct assessment
...Trump is mentally unfit to govern...and ... has colluded with Putin and
Russia to get elected...and thus due to this and violation of the
US Constitution's emoluments clause will hopefully be impeached.
...Trump is mentally unfit to govern...and ... has colluded with Putin and
Russia to get elected...and thus due to this and violation of the
US Constitution's emoluments clause will hopefully be impeached.
Neil, give it up, pal. You are smearing lipstick on one very ugly pig.
In the end, the very people who voted for Trump will pay for the wall and very dearly for the imported goods that they consume everyday - food, cloths, shoes, consumer electronic, car parts.... The list is endless. But, wait, they will also pay for the corporate and individual tax cuts and other goodies that Trump has promised. This is a redistribution of income except that it will come from, again, the very people who voted from Trump.
6
I never understood how even the most "deplorable"of the Trump fanatics didn't realize that they were only being used to give power to the very corporate elements that care nothing about the American people but only about making more money that they can hide off-shore. Trump's corporate handlers (facilitated by the greedy pop media) encouraged Trump's most outrageous behavior -- throwing red meat to the suckers -- in order to gain their ends. We, the people, who recognized what was going on, will pay -- along with the suckers -- in dirty air, contaminated food, climate change affecting habitat, increase in pests in forests and crop land, flooding of cities -- to mention only a small part of the coming degradation of our lives.
It's a little late, but I have been crying in the wilderness for decades that we should teach CRITICAL THINKING in schools from Day One.
It's a little late, but I have been crying in the wilderness for decades that we should teach CRITICAL THINKING in schools from Day One.
I get that the author is saying this is the administrations way of slipping in a 20% sales tax. But we shouldn't forget that it's no more or less more a sales tax than any other import tax has ever been.
There will have to be rebates on the import tax for parts which were used to in products for export (assuming there will still be any export markets for the US left). What a tangle that will be to sort out. No fear: an army of creative bookkeepers and lobbyists will rise up to save the day - the best connected will be able to turn the 20% tax rebate into export subsidies!
As an alternate strategy, let's suppose the US exported no more bonds to the international bond market, causing the exported dollars paid for imported products to pile up outside the US, and value of the US dollar to drop by 20%. Voila! Same as a 20% import tax but without convoluted bookkeeping. The winners would be the fittest export industries such as high tech machinery, and fittest domestic industries able to automate production lines.
Of course to keep the economy going during an adjustment period would require selling bonds to domestic entities only, or quantitative easing, but resulting debt and interest would be a purely domestic issue, under complete US control.
There will have to be rebates on the import tax for parts which were used to in products for export (assuming there will still be any export markets for the US left). What a tangle that will be to sort out. No fear: an army of creative bookkeepers and lobbyists will rise up to save the day - the best connected will be able to turn the 20% tax rebate into export subsidies!
As an alternate strategy, let's suppose the US exported no more bonds to the international bond market, causing the exported dollars paid for imported products to pile up outside the US, and value of the US dollar to drop by 20%. Voila! Same as a 20% import tax but without convoluted bookkeeping. The winners would be the fittest export industries such as high tech machinery, and fittest domestic industries able to automate production lines.
Of course to keep the economy going during an adjustment period would require selling bonds to domestic entities only, or quantitative easing, but resulting debt and interest would be a purely domestic issue, under complete US control.
1
Some readers have suggested the idea of a national VAT, applied to imports and domestic products and services alike. If the United States goes this route, we will have to take into account that many states have their own sales tax; I paid as much as ten percent for shoes on a brief visit to an outlet in Tennessee. Add 20% on top of that, and consumers, some in low-wage areas, are going to have to pony up 30% on top of the basic price. So there will have to be some accommodation, unless all state sales taxes are abolished. But that will leave the struggling states even worse off than they are now.
1
Building a wall is not to be taken literally. Trump wants to tighten immigration (illegally through Mexico or anywhere else) and adjust tariffs so both sides win. It will take some tweaking, but Trump will be able to claim he met his campaign promises.
Kellyanne?
So in other words, American consumers, most of whom are not billionaires although millions of them vote illegally, will be the ones who get to pay for the Iron Curtain through tariffs that increase the price of consumer goods. Add that to the expulsion of "foreigners," and we can look forward to paying $10.00 for a head of lettuce, if we can get it at all.
9
Thank you!!! Someone finally points out the obvious. The 20% tariff is essentially a federal sales tax on most consumer goods. The revenue generated will be used to offset corporate and income tax cuts.
The concept that these tariffs will bring back jobs from Mexico and China is a scam. It is a new way for 'consumption tax champions' to sneak their unfair and economically disastrous idea into law.
The concept that these tariffs will bring back jobs from Mexico and China is a scam. It is a new way for 'consumption tax champions' to sneak their unfair and economically disastrous idea into law.
14
Trump administration's latest signals on Mexico is difficult to interpret because Trump merely identified a serious and complex problem that has been created by all the politicians who came before him. Immigration reform was long over due. Trump gained traction in his presidential campaign because his supporters agreed with him that it is a major problem of epic proportions. Hopefully the saying that America will try everything that does not work and end up doing the right thing. If not anything it has sent a clear and loud message to the Mexican authorities to guard their own borders and don't permit illegal entry while at the same time be ready to receive the ones who have already entered illegally. I would hope that bot Mexico and the USA will better off when all is said and done. But then I am an optimist and I want to see better relations between the 2 neighbors but one that is based on mutual respect for the integrity and safety of both.
2
The US should have switched to a VAT, or something like it, decades ago. Instead, we tax wages to pay for just about everything: healthcare, social security, unemployment insurance, defense. This puts us at a tremendous competitive disadvantage compared to VAT countries, discourages employment, and encourages substitution of machines for workers. We used to get revenue from taxing corporate profits as well, but that share is steadily declining as global corporations become more adept at shifting profits to low-tax (or no-tax) jurisdictions. A VAT (or something like it) is also much easier to collect and harder to evade. Its much-maligned regressivity can be ameliorated by compensatory income tax cuts at the low end, or by charging a lower rate for necessities (food, healthcare, rent).
5
A national sales tax keeps the primary burden on the poor and middle class.
Interpret? Well, the trade balance between the USA and Mexico has become almost even. Not to forget that Mexico is one of the important oil suppliers for the USA - if the oil price would not have dunked rather recently, the trade balance between the two countries might be even today. To calculate with 10 bn positive gains per year (which is what we call a "Milchmädchenrechnung" in my country, which means the calculation is rather naive, and not taking all points into consideration) would make it 4 years until the estimated costs of 40 bn would be evened out. Actually it is foreseeable that the US buyers will have to handle the burden by higher prices. And if Mexico takes the same route of nationalism, US exporters to Mexico will suffer. How is all this a benefit to the US workers? Elsewhere walls have been taken down ... how walls do not work to the benefit of people on either side is a historic lesson to learn, specifically from the history of my country (Germany).
16
In other words, he will proclaim that Mexico has paid for the wall as promised — even if the Mexican government never literally cuts a check to pay for new concrete.
********
Another instance of trump demanding that we count the tail of a calf as a leg so that he can tell us that the calf has five legs. Then he will get angry when we refuse to accept another alternative fact that keeps his alternative world in place.
********
Another instance of trump demanding that we count the tail of a calf as a leg so that he can tell us that the calf has five legs. Then he will get angry when we refuse to accept another alternative fact that keeps his alternative world in place.
16
Unabashed autarky is a dangerous posture for the international economy to absorb, or even tolerate. The Trump presidency is proving more dangerous because so ideologically-driven than even many of us as critics thought possible. "Border adjustment: is just smoke and mirrors for an uncompromising unilateral global hegemony, which other nations will surely resist. America is veering toward the collapse of the domestic economy as a risk worth taking if it means the severe reduction of corporate taxes through raising revenues from taxing imports.
A trade war cannot be won, and is mad to contemplate. But so are other Trump policies, starting with construction of the wall. This is only week one. When will the nightmare end?
A trade war cannot be won, and is mad to contemplate. But so are other Trump policies, starting with construction of the wall. This is only week one. When will the nightmare end?
13
A headline during the election concerning one of Trump’s earlier insanities was - Trump’s plan to seize Iraq’s oil: “It’s not stealing, we’re reimbursing ourselves” The word “reimbursing” is now being used in context with Trump’s assertion that he will force Mexico to pay for the wall. Trump reiterated that he would have seized Iraq’s oil recently at a speech at to the CIA. A "trade" war?
Senator Reed Smoot and Representative Willis C. Hawley probably did many things in their careers, but history only remembers them for the Smoot-Hawley tariff of 1930 which remains today as the prime example of the damage that protectionism can do. Protectionism is the progressivism of fools. Gandhi was a great statesman but a horrible economist. Just as the ignorant in the USA argue that American workers who earn $15 per hour should not have to compete with Chinese workers who make $2 per hour, Gandhi thought that Indian workers should not have to compete with American and European workers who have the benefit of modern machines. As a result India adopted protectionism. In 1947 the per capita income of India was similar to countries such a South Korea. By 1977 the per capita income and standard of living in South Korea was many times that of India. India has since largely abandoned protectionism and has benefited immensely from free trade. Just as David Ricardo proved would be the case when he developed the concept of comparative advantage...."
http://seekingalpha.com/article/4033258
Senator Reed Smoot and Representative Willis C. Hawley probably did many things in their careers, but history only remembers them for the Smoot-Hawley tariff of 1930 which remains today as the prime example of the damage that protectionism can do. Protectionism is the progressivism of fools. Gandhi was a great statesman but a horrible economist. Just as the ignorant in the USA argue that American workers who earn $15 per hour should not have to compete with Chinese workers who make $2 per hour, Gandhi thought that Indian workers should not have to compete with American and European workers who have the benefit of modern machines. As a result India adopted protectionism. In 1947 the per capita income of India was similar to countries such a South Korea. By 1977 the per capita income and standard of living in South Korea was many times that of India. India has since largely abandoned protectionism and has benefited immensely from free trade. Just as David Ricardo proved would be the case when he developed the concept of comparative advantage...."
http://seekingalpha.com/article/4033258
Shaking up the status quo especially on trade, immigration, and tax policy is what we should engage in. Trump's has a knack for selling an idea or concept if you would, which releases ideas and thoughts from all corners to provide solutions to implement reforms. That Trump ability will shake up old school practices that certain interest especially old guard Pols from both sides of the aisle are keen to protect for their benefactors. A rejuvenation of our economic society and re-institutionalising the rule of law by Homeland Security will have profound effects on our society socially, for elevating our underserved poor citizens as well as overall national security.
4
If the so called border adjustment is to be viewed as the equivalent of the valued added tax system, it will require that the 20% tax will also be applied on all domestically produced goods that are sold in the US. This is to satisfy the national treatment provisions of the WTO agreement, which requires that like treatment be given to both domestically produced goods and imports.
14
My hope was that the new administration would make America more competitive by eliminating regulations that make it difficult to do business here and that add to the cost as well as cutting taxes on American business - not by threatening or bullying our trade partners.
My own view is that while Trump supporters don't want to accept it, globalization will move forward and we shouldn't bury our heads in the sand.
My own view is that while Trump supporters don't want to accept it, globalization will move forward and we shouldn't bury our heads in the sand.
6
Such a move will hurt Mexican exports to the US.
It will mean some higher prices for consumers in the US.
It will actually increase exports from China to the US.
Mexico will selectively impose tariffs on imports from US - hurting Corn and Soybean farmers in the US.
Probably start a cycle of rising tariffs around the globe.
Think it through. You don't have to be obsessed with impulsive campaign promises. This is just week 1.
It will mean some higher prices for consumers in the US.
It will actually increase exports from China to the US.
Mexico will selectively impose tariffs on imports from US - hurting Corn and Soybean farmers in the US.
Probably start a cycle of rising tariffs around the globe.
Think it through. You don't have to be obsessed with impulsive campaign promises. This is just week 1.
8
I'm just wondering how long the American People will put up with this. Even Republicans have to realize that what is taking place is just not rational or constructive.
It is bomb throwing by insurgents who happen to control the government. How many will sit idle while our country is being literally destroyed from the inside out?
This is beyond politics. This is insanity.
It is bomb throwing by insurgents who happen to control the government. How many will sit idle while our country is being literally destroyed from the inside out?
This is beyond politics. This is insanity.
22
The time for those thoughts were on November 8, 2016.
I despise Trump and his policies but he did win.
The Trump voters are naive and mindless and are incapable of having the wisdom to see that they hurt themselves. Same thing for the idiotic Jill Stein crowd.
But Democrat voters need to act like the country's adults and show up for elections including 2018 midterms. Elections matter.
I despise Trump and his policies but he did win.
The Trump voters are naive and mindless and are incapable of having the wisdom to see that they hurt themselves. Same thing for the idiotic Jill Stein crowd.
But Democrat voters need to act like the country's adults and show up for elections including 2018 midterms. Elections matter.
5
Liberty Lover: You've got it 100% correct. When is someone from Congress going to stand up and say this is enough! DJT cannot continue this thoughtless, unchecked bomb throwing. We're going to be in one heck of a mess if he's allowed free reign of our country!
The Republican Party is terrified that the bomb-throwers will erode the last vestige of respect for them as a Party. Even the most "deplorable" Trump supporters will eventually realize that they have been had by the Clown-President's mindless blasts, as their lives (along with those of the rest of us) continue to degrade. Whom will they blame? Trump ran as a Republican...
It seems to be winging it. Maximum confusion; maximum chaos. FUD (fear, uncertainty & disinformation) rules the day
14
Given the firm refusal of Mexican govt to pay for any wall, the only way to get Mexicans to pay for it is to tax cash remittances sent from US to Mexico. This was floated during campaign and seems a lot better than asking importers to pay for it.
If importers pay, it will result in higher prices on their goods for all Americans, lowering sales here and forcing layoffs in Mexico, sending even more economic migrants to USA looking for work. But taxing remittances would not hurt other Americans, just people here who still send money back to Mexico.
If importers pay, it will result in higher prices on their goods for all Americans, lowering sales here and forcing layoffs in Mexico, sending even more economic migrants to USA looking for work. But taxing remittances would not hurt other Americans, just people here who still send money back to Mexico.
5
"Just People who still send money to Mexico...." LOL
And how long before illegal ways to send remittances flourish? Remittances are sent all over the world. Will they all be taxed? Or will this just be a discriminatory practice?
This is a preposterous article. It sets out to normalize that impulsive, incoherent, deceitful shenanigans of the malignant and dangerous man whom we have allowed to reach the presidency, to assign some sort of logic to them. It is utterly speculative. And it finds a silver lining where the only responsible choice is to see clouds as clouds and to get to work dissipating them. When this nightmare is over, and we get our country back, let us recall where Mr Neil Irwin stood at this time.
19
Last time I checked "our country" was not Thailand. Hypocrisy as usual. And why are all those Hollywood "celebrities" who promised to leave the U.S. if President Trump was elected, still here? And why haven't 35% of the Federal workforce in Washington DC area still there as, according to the Washington Post they were going to leave their jobs if Trump was elected. One can only dream.
8
I completely agree. I am aghast at this Upshot. It is spraying perfume on a stench of horrific, scattershot policy thought up on the run.
Mexico and China are low-cost producers competing against a high-cost producer, and the result is predictable ... a glaring trade imbalance. In due course the high-priced US workers find nobody's buying the stuff they make. Trump’s essential isolationism serves only to aggravate this situation.
16
Walmart is filled with inferior made, relatively useless junk. Chinese products for the most part are poorly made with short cutting of materials used, to produce a higher profit, according to some artificial 5 year plan. Carrier makes cast metal furnaces in China, sold in the U.S. They are cheap for Carrier but, unfortunately for the consumer, they are defective and fail after a few years. Carrier continues to import this crap even though the materials used are inferior, so who is to blame for Corporate America's mistakes?
Under a Trump Presidency my fear is that we will be seen internationally as a nation that is weak and unable to govern itself. That Trump will move to isolationism, avoid international diplomacy, reduce the media to a propaganda organ, bend the democratic process to fit his need seems certain given his actions so far. Trump by choice remains an enigma to those he will govern and to those he will deal with internationally. That is a recipe for governing that could end very badly for us all.
12
There is no escaping that by whatever name you choose, this would be a regressive tax on consumption. In other words, a sales tax, which falls most heavily on those least able to pay, and transfers the tax burden from those wealthy enough to hold capital assets to those who live from paycheck to paycheck. It is exactly what the Republicans' paymasters want, and a betrayal of Trump's voters. No surprise there.
31
Nearly any method of charging Mexico for the wall will ultimately result in American consumers paying for it through higher prices. Depending on the methodology used, it could end up being mostly paid by poorer Americans who were Trump's largest constituency. However, this constituency would struggle to understand how they were actually paying for it, so they would see it as a win for the Big Man. Clever.
A brief refresher course on money: Nearly all "government" money is ultimately "consumer" or citizen money. The government does not have its own freaking money!
A brief refresher course on money: Nearly all "government" money is ultimately "consumer" or citizen money. The government does not have its own freaking money!
8
Why the insistence on calling this a negotiation? Mexico has every thing to lose and nothing to gain by talking with Trump. It is not, by definition, a negotiation if there is no give and take. Trump is simply bent on retribution and punishment.
34
Trump does not have any idea about foreign policy, diplomacy, commercial policy, financial policy or trade policy. His advisors are more ignorant. So there are so many confusions in everything. Obama was no drama or boring. Now you have Trump who is a drama-King. We will see lot of flip flop and lot of dramas. Enjoy it. Mexico is not an enemy or far away country. Why Trump has to punish our neighbor and friendly country? Why we taxpayers have to pay for this unnecessary wall and 20 percent tariff on Mexican imports? Why he wants to punish Mexicans and also Americans?
32
Finally someone who is rocking the boat, President Trump. If you think that an eighty billon yearly trade imbalance and a 20 trillion U.S. deficit are OK then sure, point well taken. But if that is a problem for the U.S. economy, a severe problem lurking on the near horizon, then personalizing someone obscures the sad financial facts of our precarious financial situation. Read up on the European economies just prior to the Second World War. Reality has a way of waking up the Kool-Aid drinkers.
3
And with the lead up to the war nations were turning inward, Jews prevented from emigrating to the US and other countries, and a Germany which cracked down on the press and scientists that dared speak out and other dissidents, other political groups, and anyone who didn't fit into the "norm" of the Nazi regime (homosexuals, the Roma, the disabled etc. were also targets of the Holocaust along with Jews). Meanwhile a charismatic leader in Germany was spinning propaganda for Germany first. We should look at all the parallels, not the ones that are just convenient to your argument.
Trump does not read books. Case closed.
As a negotiator, Mr. Trump has all the patience and tact of a five year old who just chugged down six cokes. All those who opposed him repeatedly warned voters that his personality would never magically evolve into being "presidential". It has taken Mr. Trump less than one week in office to prove them 100% right. As opposed to a "great negotiator", America has instead elected a president who is exactly what he has always appeared to be. The President of the United States is now a brash, impulsive and egotistical game show host.
51
So many on the left are so eager for President Trump to fail that they seem to see only mirage like images of a Presidency that only they can see. Wait until his cabinet is fully approved, you ain't seen nothing yet. The left will not only be out in the wilderness, it will become their home for decades.
Unfortunately all these proposals have, or are believed to have, real impacts in Mexico. Whatever his personal preferences President Pena Nieto is forced by a firestorm of public fury to respond and some of those responses are likely to have real consequences. There is strong public support for significant reductions in the anticipated $2 billion+ purchase of US corn by Mexico this year as well as the $1 billion+ purchase of dairy products. Paul Ryan can explain to Wisconsin dairy farmers what Mexico has decided to buy from Canada and New Zealand. And Mexico can offer American manufacturers who use low-cost Mexican labor to assemble parts from abroad an awkward choice.....make more components in Mexico (costing jobs in the US) or pay a duty on imports, raising the cost of the final product. With early maneuvering for the Mexican presidential election of 2018 already underway President Trump's mindless provocations could lead to public support for more drastic measures such as expelling all DEA agents from Mexico. Such steps might be counterproductive but they would also be popular. And there are suggestions the Mexican government should cut deals with cartels for information on American political figures who facilitate smuggling or benefit from drug distribution. Do we really believe the meth epidemic in the American Midwest is facilitated by barely literate farmworkers? In an era of fake news even fragmentary revelations from cartels can do political damage.
25
Yes it would be great to expose those who would conspire with the Drug Cartels. The DEA and Border Agents just apprehended 100 million worth of meth attempting to enter the US on the Mexican border. Comments do not explain our yearly 80 billion dollar trade imbalance with Mexico. If a business arrangement is hemmorageing money, close it down or make it better, better, better.
2
Unfortunately, the author of this article does not seem to understand how value added taxes (VATs) work and is making a significant misstatement when suggesting that the proposed border tax is similar to VATs implemented in other countries.
Canada's Harmonized Sales Tax (formerly named the Goods and Services Tax) is a good example of a VAT and a quick examination shows that it is very different from Trump's proposed tax regime. Canada's VAT is a sales tax charged at the time of retail sale of a good or service and a uniform (13% in Ontario) sales tax is added to any applicable good or service sold to an ultimate retail purchaser, whether or not it is an import.
This tax is charged at each sale and resale of a good, so, to avoid double taxation, tax on wholesale transactions count as an "input tax credit" and are refunded to the wholesaler. This way, for instance, a raw good that is sold to five separate incremental manufacturers, each doing a small step in the chain of production, is not taxed 5 times more than if one full service manufacturer did all five steps itself.
In Canada, the price of imported goods generally is counted as an input tax credit, with no double tax, so there is no significant, trade distorting difference in the HST rates charged to Canadian and foreign manufactured goods.
Trump is proposing to prevent businesses deducting the cost of foreign goods from business revenue when calculating income, which would be a major distortion to trade.
Canada's Harmonized Sales Tax (formerly named the Goods and Services Tax) is a good example of a VAT and a quick examination shows that it is very different from Trump's proposed tax regime. Canada's VAT is a sales tax charged at the time of retail sale of a good or service and a uniform (13% in Ontario) sales tax is added to any applicable good or service sold to an ultimate retail purchaser, whether or not it is an import.
This tax is charged at each sale and resale of a good, so, to avoid double taxation, tax on wholesale transactions count as an "input tax credit" and are refunded to the wholesaler. This way, for instance, a raw good that is sold to five separate incremental manufacturers, each doing a small step in the chain of production, is not taxed 5 times more than if one full service manufacturer did all five steps itself.
In Canada, the price of imported goods generally is counted as an input tax credit, with no double tax, so there is no significant, trade distorting difference in the HST rates charged to Canadian and foreign manufactured goods.
Trump is proposing to prevent businesses deducting the cost of foreign goods from business revenue when calculating income, which would be a major distortion to trade.
24
The only reason that the Canadian citizens tolerate the VAT is that the funds raised go directly to support the free health care system in Canada. As this system has become more and more expensive, Canada is contemplating more tax schemes to be announced. As to capital goods vs retail goods, the US has several tax schemes that business uses to their advantage to account for imported parts and other items, pre-finished product.
2
Oh please!
"We want to remain friendly with practically our largest trading partner."
Whatever happens, you're assigning Mexico a status it doesn't deserve. The US sells a great deal to Mexico because it's right next door -- that's the only reason, and we'd sell a lot more if our neighbor wasn't such a poor country. (Ever calculate how much US producers sell to the average Canadian? To the average Mexican?) We buy a heck of a lot more from Mexico than we sell to it. And we buy what we buy because Mexican workers get paid much less to make it.
Simple as that. Mexico is not our "partner." It's just a low-cost producer competing against a high-cost producer, and the result is predictable: a glaring trade imbalance.
The question is -- and always has been: If we exclude goods produced in Mexico (through high tariffs or whatever), just how much more will US consumers be willing to pay for goods made in the USA?
I'll venture a guess that the answer is somewhere in the 10-20% range, and that won't be enough. US consumers will be asked to pay 100%+ higher prices if we effectively exclude Mexico (and whatever country tries to take its place), and I doubt US consumers will do that. Pretty soon, the high-priced US workers will soon find nobody's buying the stuff they make. Then what?
I hope I'm wrong, but I seriously doubt I am. We'll soon find out.
"We want to remain friendly with practically our largest trading partner."
Whatever happens, you're assigning Mexico a status it doesn't deserve. The US sells a great deal to Mexico because it's right next door -- that's the only reason, and we'd sell a lot more if our neighbor wasn't such a poor country. (Ever calculate how much US producers sell to the average Canadian? To the average Mexican?) We buy a heck of a lot more from Mexico than we sell to it. And we buy what we buy because Mexican workers get paid much less to make it.
Simple as that. Mexico is not our "partner." It's just a low-cost producer competing against a high-cost producer, and the result is predictable: a glaring trade imbalance.
The question is -- and always has been: If we exclude goods produced in Mexico (through high tariffs or whatever), just how much more will US consumers be willing to pay for goods made in the USA?
I'll venture a guess that the answer is somewhere in the 10-20% range, and that won't be enough. US consumers will be asked to pay 100%+ higher prices if we effectively exclude Mexico (and whatever country tries to take its place), and I doubt US consumers will do that. Pretty soon, the high-priced US workers will soon find nobody's buying the stuff they make. Then what?
I hope I'm wrong, but I seriously doubt I am. We'll soon find out.
7
Avocados are my favorite fruit. Amazing fruit. The best avocados come from Mexico. Hands down the tastiest most nutritious avocados are grown in Mexico. Nobody has better avocados than Mexico. Nobody. They practically grow on trees there. Believe me. Fabulous fruit. Chefs, all the best chefs really top people, use them as the First ingredient in guacamole. Trump Wall and Trump Tariffs are bad for avocados.
48
Nicely done
Yeah, the best cocaine crosses that border too.
They grow on uge trees.
Such dangerous nonsense, there's nary a qualified economist anywhere in the cesspool swamp of this Republican Congress and White House. I think we're headed for a short-term bubble of insider angling where the rich make out like bandits then flee - followed by a subsequent crash, this time, so catastrophic that the country is beyond saving. The president is a multi-bankrupted real estate developer who only knows how to game the system, not strengthen it. The GOP is full of ideological fools with no true allegiance to the wellbeing of the US and the State Department is now run by Exxon/Mobil. Explain how this can end well.
67
You said it all, thanks.
I'm sorry, but I'm a bit confused. How can it be said that a tariff on imports is paid by the exporter? As I understand the model, the exporter in another country enters into a contract to sell goods to the importer in the U.S. The price of the goods is at the factory door. Shipping and customs clearance are the responsibility of the importer. The customs agent looks at the goods and the documentation and determines the price is X and the duty is 20%, payable by the importer. The importer then the price of the goods in the domestic market at cost of the goods (X) + duty (0.2X) + shipping + local costs + profit.
Everything beyond X is the responsibility of the importer, not the exporter. So how does the duty come out of the exporter's pocket?
Everything beyond X is the responsibility of the importer, not the exporter. So how does the duty come out of the exporter's pocket?
10
It's pretty simple, actually.
The playing field is leveled because it makes those imports more expensive and therefore encourages production, manufacturing, in the US.
Am wondering why the headline is so inflammatory when the reporting makes so much sense.
The playing field is leveled because it makes those imports more expensive and therefore encourages production, manufacturing, in the US.
Am wondering why the headline is so inflammatory when the reporting makes so much sense.
Listen it doesn't. If facts don't work, what makes you think logical formulas and proofs work. Just go with their absence of logic and embrace the force of alternative facts and you'll better in the morning. Trust me. It will be beautiful.
@Tokyo Tony
It doesn't. It gets paid by the consumer. Americans will pay more for avocados, for example. Whether Mexican avocados (grown by US agribusiness in Mexico) with the import tariff added to the wholesale price and passed onto retail price, or for more expensive avocados grown in California.
The rich represented by Trump want to shift taxes to consumers and away from income and corporate. It means shifting the tax burden to the middle and working Americans who spend a higher percentage of their income on consumption than rich folks do. No person who earns a paycheck is going to see big raises so consumer spending is usually fixed. If consumption taxes come out of retail it'll reduce the actual amount of spending by the amount paid in taxes, which will cost US producers and reduce demand in the economy, which will trigger another recession just as we climb out of the last one.
Deplorable economics in action.
It doesn't. It gets paid by the consumer. Americans will pay more for avocados, for example. Whether Mexican avocados (grown by US agribusiness in Mexico) with the import tariff added to the wholesale price and passed onto retail price, or for more expensive avocados grown in California.
The rich represented by Trump want to shift taxes to consumers and away from income and corporate. It means shifting the tax burden to the middle and working Americans who spend a higher percentage of their income on consumption than rich folks do. No person who earns a paycheck is going to see big raises so consumer spending is usually fixed. If consumption taxes come out of retail it'll reduce the actual amount of spending by the amount paid in taxes, which will cost US producers and reduce demand in the economy, which will trigger another recession just as we climb out of the last one.
Deplorable economics in action.
Trump wants to be the King and tries to manage the US Government like he manages his Trump enterprises; with authoritarian style with few unimpactful advisers. It costs him nothing if he blows the US economy, trade partner relationships or blows trillion dollars to unnecessary stimulation. The tax payors will carry the burden. This is a cluster fudge where the majority of voters do not support Trump. How to stop him is to ensure that Democrats have the majority. We can't do much about his shot-gun executive orders.
11
How to interpret the Trump administration? How about not even bothering? It is clear that President Trump, prefers to keep his cards close to his chest keep everyone guessing about what he is going to do. Including congress, and possibly his advisers as well. He probably doesn't even know what his plan is, and he's just talking through the process. We can't start taking every half baked idea that comes out of his mouth seriously, or we won't stay sane for the next four years.
How about exposing just how little he knows about these issues, how unformed and uninformed his ideas are? Instead of trying to explain what he's trying to do for him, how about having him explain it himself?
How about exposing just how little he knows about these issues, how unformed and uninformed his ideas are? Instead of trying to explain what he's trying to do for him, how about having him explain it himself?
18
Trump's only plan is to keep everyone else scrambling by starting a new fight every day.
5
It's been less than a week and I'm already in the Peter cried wolf too many times crowd- I don't believe anything that Trump or his group says.
1
"The Trump campaign was notoriously light on policy detail" Anyway they twist their followers around, the Trump campaign continues to not keep its many promises. One of the bluster statements on the stump was Mexico was going to pay for the wall. As Mexico's President said, it isn't going to happen. Instead, it appears they want to tax their way out of this. Where are the no-new taxes' Republicans. Since Day One it appears this new administration wants to manufacture chaos, cause fake disruption. Maybe they think that will pass for change, even though it damages the country on the world stage. So far he has an affinity for Russia but doesn't like our neighbors to the South. He prefers the Communist regime of Putin over our trading partner, Mexico. This is not the 1950s, fake anger and all this daily noise is most likely meant to create anger among people from different backgrounds. When will we see riots in our streets so that they can call in the military and do like they do in Russia. Having generals waiting in cabinet positions adds to the sense that Trump may think he wins by manufacturing chaos. The Republicans use to use these tactics. Remember Nixon. Someone from whoever is calling the shots needs to consult with Sanders. He made the 2017 forward compelling argument to our country: that the central problem is not racial but class (economics).
4
You hold rather high expectations for the Hair Apparent.
Trump, who sells suits made in Mexico, tapped into the rural white resentment against brown skinned Mexican immigrants taking away from whites such plumb careers as digging ditches, painting walls, washing dishes, and grape-picking.
This cabinet of millionaires and billionaires does not care about unemployed American workers (but unemployment is way down). The basis of their freshly minted tariff policy is to reward the appetite for revenge harbored by the racist-driven voters who supported Trump's ignoble campaign (starting with the birther slander).
The Wall will be a theatrical showpiece for visual display to the rubes who think that cutting off immigration will bring back the good old days of an America, of, by, and for, whites only.
But I suspect most of Trump's supporters know that the good old days are gone forever. Still, the thrill of sadism most not be denied to them.
This cabinet of millionaires and billionaires does not care about unemployed American workers (but unemployment is way down). The basis of their freshly minted tariff policy is to reward the appetite for revenge harbored by the racist-driven voters who supported Trump's ignoble campaign (starting with the birther slander).
The Wall will be a theatrical showpiece for visual display to the rubes who think that cutting off immigration will bring back the good old days of an America, of, by, and for, whites only.
But I suspect most of Trump's supporters know that the good old days are gone forever. Still, the thrill of sadism most not be denied to them.
16
It's a very curious argument.
Typically, it's conservatives who argue for strong trade relationships and domestic creative destruction, that results in exporting highly-paid American jobs in return for dirt-cheap imported products and services. Yet, now it's liberals arguing this model.
But ... any port in an ideological storm, I suppose.
Since everyone is getting into this Kremlin-watching syndrome applied to the Trump White House, I may as well stick in MY moderate toe. Trump isn't angling for a dramatic shift to domestic job retention at ANY price to imported Pez dispensers: he's merely arguing for a better BALANCE in favor of domestic U.S. jobs.
With all the fear on all sides, it appears that his negotiating techniques may be effective and he might get that better balance. It's like the Port Authority of NY & NJ demanding a bridge-&-tunnel toll increase to approx. $2,000 per passage, but "settling" for a "measly" $15.
Typically, it's conservatives who argue for strong trade relationships and domestic creative destruction, that results in exporting highly-paid American jobs in return for dirt-cheap imported products and services. Yet, now it's liberals arguing this model.
But ... any port in an ideological storm, I suppose.
Since everyone is getting into this Kremlin-watching syndrome applied to the Trump White House, I may as well stick in MY moderate toe. Trump isn't angling for a dramatic shift to domestic job retention at ANY price to imported Pez dispensers: he's merely arguing for a better BALANCE in favor of domestic U.S. jobs.
With all the fear on all sides, it appears that his negotiating techniques may be effective and he might get that better balance. It's like the Port Authority of NY & NJ demanding a bridge-&-tunnel toll increase to approx. $2,000 per passage, but "settling" for a "measly" $15.
3
Richard,
I thought that they raised the toll to $30? If all of the Americas break off relations with us then can we stop giving them money to like us?
I thought that they raised the toll to $30? If all of the Americas break off relations with us then can we stop giving them money to like us?
1
Liberals aren't the ones that have been crushed by globalization. Most blue collar workers wouldn't identify themselves as liberal.
1
This article seems to have been written for an alternate universe: one where executive and legislative bodies were thoughtfully pondering tax code.
In the universe I live in, a megalomaniac president needs a way to "pay" for a red meat campaign promise, and an utterly bought-and-paid-for Congress is calculating how to further shift the American tax and debt burden onto the working class.
In the universe I live in, a megalomaniac president needs a way to "pay" for a red meat campaign promise, and an utterly bought-and-paid-for Congress is calculating how to further shift the American tax and debt burden onto the working class.
61
cynical and spot on
11
If this becomes the state of relations between two close neighbors, Mexico and the United States, just think what it will be like with China on a range of issues.
Trump has targeted Mexico and China in his rhetoric and policies, most often centered around lies about how these countries interact on trade with the United States.
To make matters more bizarre, republican leaders who know better than Trump, are willing to make a down payment on building a fake security blanket called a "wall" with Mexico to launch the start of trade wars.
Trump has targeted Mexico and China in his rhetoric and policies, most often centered around lies about how these countries interact on trade with the United States.
To make matters more bizarre, republican leaders who know better than Trump, are willing to make a down payment on building a fake security blanket called a "wall" with Mexico to launch the start of trade wars.
8
Let's be clear the discussed 20 percent Border tax is to pay for a Corporate Tax reduction and as a consequence retail prices will increase crimping consumer demand. The true upshot is the American people will pay for the Corporate tax reduction which in turn will be passed on to shareholders in the form of higher dividends, share buybacks etc.
This will exacerbate the horrendous income inequality which exists.
It is not only Consumers, retailers who should oppose this it is our Corporations who have massive investments in Mexico and Canada running into hundreds of billions . Also Exporters Canada and Mexico are two of our largest export markets and these two countries will surely retaliate.
Every day of this administration has initiated more questions than it has answered , strong statements contradicted in hours or at nomination hearings,
Total confusion.
This will exacerbate the horrendous income inequality which exists.
It is not only Consumers, retailers who should oppose this it is our Corporations who have massive investments in Mexico and Canada running into hundreds of billions . Also Exporters Canada and Mexico are two of our largest export markets and these two countries will surely retaliate.
Every day of this administration has initiated more questions than it has answered , strong statements contradicted in hours or at nomination hearings,
Total confusion.
17
These share buybacks just concentrate more assets in the hands of America's lavishly overpaid corporate managements and other plutocrats.
2
if you feel that your vote did not count at the ballet box - now vote with your wallet - only spend on absolute necessities -
Translation: This guy doesn't know what he's doing -- or care what he's doing to our USA.
27
Policy, policy? What policy? This is not policy. This is the ravings of an incredibly, remarkably, astounding ignorant psychotic, a deeply, deeply disturbed ignoramus.
We import from Mexico $300 billion a year in goods so what this creature has proposed out of his moribund soul and deranged mind is a $60 billion tax on, on, on, on -- --- on Americans, duh, on us.
That's not policy. It is stupidity. I expect by mid-March that most or all of Latin America will have had to break off diplomatic relations with us in solidarity with Mexico.
Mexico is not a contractor you can nickel and dime to take 20 cents on the dollar. It is a sovereign nation of 140 million people from whom we stole at the point of a gun and an army -- and white racism -- all or parts of Texas, California, Nevada, Arizona, Utah, Colorado, Montana and Idaho.
There is no policy, there is no knowledge, there is no nothing except the rantings and ravings of this sick, depraved, emotionally deprived thing that occupies, briefly, the White House.
McConnell and Ryan said they'd provide $12 billion to build the thing's wall because they are shrewd -- evil but shrewd. So they are letting out the rope with which to hang this thing with impeachment within the year.
When the polls go under 30% approval, they will move. They do this for a living and they know none of this is going to happen. And they don't want it to because they want to keep the power they have and remove him from the power he thinks he has.
We import from Mexico $300 billion a year in goods so what this creature has proposed out of his moribund soul and deranged mind is a $60 billion tax on, on, on, on -- --- on Americans, duh, on us.
That's not policy. It is stupidity. I expect by mid-March that most or all of Latin America will have had to break off diplomatic relations with us in solidarity with Mexico.
Mexico is not a contractor you can nickel and dime to take 20 cents on the dollar. It is a sovereign nation of 140 million people from whom we stole at the point of a gun and an army -- and white racism -- all or parts of Texas, California, Nevada, Arizona, Utah, Colorado, Montana and Idaho.
There is no policy, there is no knowledge, there is no nothing except the rantings and ravings of this sick, depraved, emotionally deprived thing that occupies, briefly, the White House.
McConnell and Ryan said they'd provide $12 billion to build the thing's wall because they are shrewd -- evil but shrewd. So they are letting out the rope with which to hang this thing with impeachment within the year.
When the polls go under 30% approval, they will move. They do this for a living and they know none of this is going to happen. And they don't want it to because they want to keep the power they have and remove him from the power he thinks he has.
23
There is no US Congresscritter or Senator who stands on a national base and represents a national interest. They are all tools of their state governments that exist to perpetuate unequal protection of law in the US.
2
This rudderless ship aimlessly drifts in the winds of heated campaign rhetoric and ego. Bullying and bluster is not foreign policy. Neither is it very intelligent to openly assail a neighbor and ally. A wall was built in Berlin and served as an ever-present symbol of a cold war. Is that what we want here?
Sooner rather than later some country will call the Trump's bluff and bluster, leading us to war, humiliation or worse. The new regime has no strategy that goes beyond antagonizing nations of color while turning their backs to an historic adversary. And this is week one.
Sooner rather than later some country will call the Trump's bluff and bluster, leading us to war, humiliation or worse. The new regime has no strategy that goes beyond antagonizing nations of color while turning their backs to an historic adversary. And this is week one.
15
Hold fast hold fast President Nieto.
We will deal with this vainglorious "elected by a minority of voters" nincompoop up here in the US as soon as it is possible. After all, they are well versed at staking out positions based on fantasy, then act it out upon the populace.
The damage he and the grifting GOP Congress will do will be severe in the coming years, but soon enough in the arc of history the majority of Americans will clean up the Elephant Turds and return the USA to the family of nations.
We will deal with this vainglorious "elected by a minority of voters" nincompoop up here in the US as soon as it is possible. After all, they are well versed at staking out positions based on fantasy, then act it out upon the populace.
The damage he and the grifting GOP Congress will do will be severe in the coming years, but soon enough in the arc of history the majority of Americans will clean up the Elephant Turds and return the USA to the family of nations.
21
As far as Mexico, we don't want any stinkin' tea leaves.
We want a plan that is fair and just for all parties. We don't want the abuse of human rights of marginalized workers. We want to remain friendly with practically our largest trading partner.
Foremost, we want to have a modicum of control and influence in the Western Hemisphere. The reasons are not for American hegemony, but to further economic and environmental stewardship in our own backyard.
Both diplomacy and economics come down to more than the pecuniary. If there is a vacuum of rational leadership in this hemisphere, China will fill the void.
We want a plan that is fair and just for all parties. We don't want the abuse of human rights of marginalized workers. We want to remain friendly with practically our largest trading partner.
Foremost, we want to have a modicum of control and influence in the Western Hemisphere. The reasons are not for American hegemony, but to further economic and environmental stewardship in our own backyard.
Both diplomacy and economics come down to more than the pecuniary. If there is a vacuum of rational leadership in this hemisphere, China will fill the void.
20
"The second lesson from the incident is that the Trump administration looks inclined to be flexible in finding ways to satisfy campaign promises without doing major damage to the economy or international relations."
Among my least favorite things are pseudo-sophisticated analyses that claim to discern subtle strategies in incoherent policy. I would urge that you stopping try to be clever and just state the obvious instead. That would entail acknowledging that Trump and his henchmen are utterly ignorant on economic policy, just as on everything else, and have absolutely no idea of what they are doing.
Among my least favorite things are pseudo-sophisticated analyses that claim to discern subtle strategies in incoherent policy. I would urge that you stopping try to be clever and just state the obvious instead. That would entail acknowledging that Trump and his henchmen are utterly ignorant on economic policy, just as on everything else, and have absolutely no idea of what they are doing.
39
A very good question:
"Instead of expanding the wall, why don’t we require all employers to use e-verify to determine if their employees are legally allowed to work here?"
The two aren't mutually exclusive, but your question is nevertheless a good one. Undoubtedly some immigrants come here and collect welfare, but I suspect that number is very low. Nearly all come here because they hear there are good-paying jobs with employers who don't bother to verify their employees' legal status.
A few highly-publicized convictions of those employers, with long stays in the Do-Right Hotel, and those good-paying jobs will dry up very quickly. And so will most illegal immigration.
"Instead of expanding the wall, why don’t we require all employers to use e-verify to determine if their employees are legally allowed to work here?"
The two aren't mutually exclusive, but your question is nevertheless a good one. Undoubtedly some immigrants come here and collect welfare, but I suspect that number is very low. Nearly all come here because they hear there are good-paying jobs with employers who don't bother to verify their employees' legal status.
A few highly-publicized convictions of those employers, with long stays in the Do-Right Hotel, and those good-paying jobs will dry up very quickly. And so will most illegal immigration.
9
rich republicans do not put other rich republicans in jail
1
Let's do both! We can also deport criminals too!
Someone (perhaps my high school econ teacher) needs to give this man a basic economics lesson.
More importantly, I hope his supporters now realize that he has no idea what he is doing and that his policies will, in one way or another, ultimately end up hurting them. But hey, at least we will have a fully useless fence along the border.
More importantly, I hope his supporters now realize that he has no idea what he is doing and that his policies will, in one way or another, ultimately end up hurting them. But hey, at least we will have a fully useless fence along the border.
31
Where should we start in working through how wrong this all is? The whole thrust of Trump's slashing abuse of NAFTA and Mexican immigrants was about mobilizing his voters, not about reality. The wall, if and when it is built, will be tremendously expensive, going into very difficult terrain, and is unlikely to keep out immigrants any more than the current barrier. Mexico has been, by and large, a good neighbor. Net migration from Mexico to the U.S. has been negative in recent years. Mexico is a large and important trading partner, where American companies have major investments. Cooperation on checking inflow of drugs is important to the U.S. Trump's words, Tweets and actions are all stirring up a hornet's nest of animosity to the U.S. in Mexico and Latin America more generally and shows up the U.S. to be a bully, led by an unstable man with no real advisers.
30
Kudos !
By saying the wall will be tremendously expensive, you mean tremendously profitable for Boeing and KBR who are building the wall. Which Trump and his friends have stock in, right?
It's amazing how all we have to do to be the "big bad bully" of the Americas is talk about building a fence on U.S. Soil.
There must be a number of parties that have a stake in the U.S.not building a fence.
There must be a number of parties that have a stake in the U.S.not building a fence.
Our policies are now going to be born through random tweets based on the random thoughts that pop into Trumps head. There will be no consistency; there will be no deep--or even shallow--philosophy behind them. Its a mess and going to become messier.
44
In 2006, Joseph Contreras profiled the issue of Guatemalan immigrants illegally entering Mexico for Newsweek magazine and pointed out that while Mexican president Vicente Fox demanded that the United States grant legal residency to millions of illegal Mexican immigrants, Mexico had only granted legal status to 15,000 illegal immigrants. Additionally, Contreras found that at coffee farms in the Mexican state Chiapas, "40,000 Guatemalan field hands endure backbreaking jobs and squalid living conditions to earn roughly [US]$3.50 a day" and that some farmers "even deduct the cost of room and board from that amount."[2] The Mexican National Institute of Migration estimated that 400,235 people crossed the border illegally every year and that around 150,000 of them intended to enter the United States
5
"Mexican president Vicente Fox demanded that the United States grant legal residency to millions of illegal Mexican immigrants"
That is not actually true. In fact, Fox endorsed a proposal made by President Bush to do that. The Contreras article only accuses Fox of "urging the United States to upgrade the status of millions of illegals from Mexico," which may or may not be true. At the time, Fox was actually credited elsewhere for his cooperation in helping reduce illegal immigration to the United States.
That is not actually true. In fact, Fox endorsed a proposal made by President Bush to do that. The Contreras article only accuses Fox of "urging the United States to upgrade the status of millions of illegals from Mexico," which may or may not be true. At the time, Fox was actually credited elsewhere for his cooperation in helping reduce illegal immigration to the United States.
14
And now Mexico has a southern border patrol that captures and returns those same immigrants to their native countries. Funny, what's okay for Mexico on it's southern border is anathema on its northern border....and no one here seems to notice or care.
"the Trump administration looks inclined to be flexible in finding ways to satisfy campaign promises without doing major damage to the economy or international relations.".....Are you crazy. He has already completely screwed international relations with Mexico for years to come, not to mention all the Arab countries by moving the embassy to Jerusalem. I can hardly wait until he starts on China, which anybody with a brain knows will respond badly to any overt public attempt to pressure them.
36
You forgot about Canada. He just made things tough for them with the pipeline announcement. He'll get to China, don't worry, but he's got to destroy Japanese and Korean relations to get there.
Mexico needs to be put in its place. Its taken advantage of the USA for too long. Its main export is illegal drugs. Mexico knows America is addicted to drugs. Just think how much money the USA could make if it taxed the drugs coming into the country from Mexico. Think about it. Thank you.
5
" America is addicted to drugs. " Point taken. Abusive childhood, Abusive relationships, Chronic Health Issues can result in a feeling of unfulfilled life leading to Drug Addiction.
Mexico or no other country can fix that unfortunately. Individuals will have to do it themselves by being responsible for themselves and their dependents.
Take a moment and slow down. Bring a little more simplicity and friendliness in your day to day life. Deflate your ego and the supreme sense of Self a little. Seek joy in small, mundane and trivial things of daily life.Life will be much easier and the need for a high will automatically decline.
In short, address the cause and not just the symptoms is my point.
Mexico or no other country can fix that unfortunately. Individuals will have to do it themselves by being responsible for themselves and their dependents.
Take a moment and slow down. Bring a little more simplicity and friendliness in your day to day life. Deflate your ego and the supreme sense of Self a little. Seek joy in small, mundane and trivial things of daily life.Life will be much easier and the need for a high will automatically decline.
In short, address the cause and not just the symptoms is my point.
3
Actually, "Southern Boy", our insatiable desire for drugs has destroyed parts of Mexico and led to the deaths of thousands. Many who came illegally fled the violence that our demand for drugs created. As for taxing recreational drugs and narcotics, there's a problem with that - they're illegal. Any nationwide, sensible drug policy that legalizes the less harmful drugs, taxes them heavily, and uses the tax receipts to pay for desperately needed drug rehab centers, is all but certain to be opposed by the Southern Boys in the House and Senate as "immoral".
4
Yes America is addicted to drugs. And it firearms, which are exported and smuggled to Mexico adding greatly to the misery in Mexico caused by the drug cartels. Still it's a win for US weapons manufacturers as practically all weapons start their life as legal weapons coming out of the factory.
2
Would somebody pull the plug on Fox news! They are a hazard to this country's educational system which tries to develop reading comprehension skills. Concepts like "alternative facts" are developed in this dangerous breeding ground of hatred and stupidity. No, actually it is stupidity and hatred. The stupidity comes first. Comrade Trump probably listens to it all day long. That must be why he and his staff make some of the statements that get printed. God help us all.
43
Not Fake News: I run a successful business in Mexico, and a separate successful business in the U.S. I just crunched some numbers re the president's talk about a 20% tariff on Mexican imports. As Mexico is the 2nd largest consumer of U.S. exports ($240+Billion), if it chooses to retaliate, say goodbye to U.S. jobs, many in manufacturing (I buy U.S. goods when I'm in Mexico, usually monthly). In the U.S.($294 billion in Mexican imports), get ready to start paying 20% more for many foods and products. So, we lose twice. And fyi, today there are more U.S. citizens crossing the border--to live in Mexico--than Mexicans coming to the U.S. Stop the politics and looking for false scapegoats. Look at the economics. That's in your self interest. And mine.
143
Jon---If his 'tariff becomes a reality US citizens will unjustly pay for the building of the wall 3 ways First our tax money will be used to pay for the construction of it...Then we as consumers will end up paying the tariff in the form of higher prices on the goods we purchase...When Mexico retaliates and initiates tariffs on US goods our workers will suffer.
The wall proposal stinks. The same thing could be accomplished by hiring more people to patrol the border, and using available technology (drones etc.) to make their jobs enable them to do their jobs more efficiently.
The wall proposal stinks. The same thing could be accomplished by hiring more people to patrol the border, and using available technology (drones etc.) to make their jobs enable them to do their jobs more efficiently.
1
It is apparent Trump supporters are at the low end of the gene pool and like their "dear leader", live in another reality and only believe "alternative facts".
He hasn't look at facts or reason yet, why start now. Look, you are expressing logic, business sense, experience, and are probably college educated. In other words, you're exactly the type of person he doesn't listen to.
We now have incompetent leadership. Our relationship with our partners is not fluid, it is threatened, and it may soon be nonexistent. This administration does not appear to understand the legal commitments of treaties. These neophytes think they can turn their backs on our allies without repercussion. That will not happen, and we will see our reputation, our word, be unacceptable to other countries.
65
Instead of expanding the wall, why don’t we require all employers to use e-verify to determine if their employees are legally allowed to work here?
We could also deny illegal immigrants the use of any government services and subsidies, not required by law. If they cannot find work or receive government services and subsidies, most illegal immigrants will leave our country, on their own. And we will not need a wall to stop hordes of new ones from trying to enter.
We could also deny illegal immigrants the use of any government services and subsidies, not required by law. If they cannot find work or receive government services and subsidies, most illegal immigrants will leave our country, on their own. And we will not need a wall to stop hordes of new ones from trying to enter.
18
"Instead of expanding the wall, why don’t we require all employers to use e-verify to determine if their employees are legally allowed to work here?"....Because, while it would be much more effective and would cost a fraction of building a physical barrier, it would not fulfill Trump's idiotic promise to build a wall. And after all, he is a very smart person....just ask him..
40
Which government services and subsidies are you referring to? They don't receive the same benefits as citizens (Medicaid, SS, unemployment...)
Also don't forget that undocumented immigrants annually contribute an estimated estimated $11.64 billion in state and local taxes. (http://www.itep.org/pdf/immigration2016final.pdf) Please move away from this idea that undocumented immigrants contribute nothing and only take - it is a false and racist narrative.
Also don't forget that undocumented immigrants annually contribute an estimated estimated $11.64 billion in state and local taxes. (http://www.itep.org/pdf/immigration2016final.pdf) Please move away from this idea that undocumented immigrants contribute nothing and only take - it is a false and racist narrative.
Sure; he can say that revenue from Mexican revenue paid for the wall; it would just be another of his lies; just because he says it doesn't make it true; and what does he do when Mexico slaps on taxes and prudes revenues from American exports to Mexico equal to the Trump tax? If he goes twenty percent and the do a twenty percent counter then what? He raises to 25? Where does this end? Unreal. He's destroying one of this country's best advantages -- friendly relations with countries on our land borders. Gross incompetence.
73
My understanding is that this tax is protectionist (that's its purpose); value-added taxes are not. VATs are applied to both imported and domestically made goods, so there is no preference. VATs are similar to sales taxes. Trump made this mistake in an early debate. Should have been called on it. Check Krugman (and almost any economist).
20
This search for real answers is causing changes in responses, this is a welcome sign.
The real concern is not building the wall, but stem the tide of illegal immigrants. This calls for a host of measures, improving law and order in Central America, spreading prosperity southwards, a trusting relationship with Mexico to insure sealing of porous borders from both sides. Wall also, if done with mutual consent of both nations, could also be part of the answer.
When there is serious intent, and commitment to things get done, normally it gets done well. Expect things will cool down, and better sense shall prevail for creative, pragmatic solutions. Think with sound diplomacy, bitterness shall gradually dissipate, make room for better understanding towards real resolution.
It is such a pragmatic managerial approach one expects, if and when the CEO turned nominated Sec of State gets confirmed, or will this scenario remain a wishful thinking?
The real concern is not building the wall, but stem the tide of illegal immigrants. This calls for a host of measures, improving law and order in Central America, spreading prosperity southwards, a trusting relationship with Mexico to insure sealing of porous borders from both sides. Wall also, if done with mutual consent of both nations, could also be part of the answer.
When there is serious intent, and commitment to things get done, normally it gets done well. Expect things will cool down, and better sense shall prevail for creative, pragmatic solutions. Think with sound diplomacy, bitterness shall gradually dissipate, make room for better understanding towards real resolution.
It is such a pragmatic managerial approach one expects, if and when the CEO turned nominated Sec of State gets confirmed, or will this scenario remain a wishful thinking?
3
pipe dreams
1
A more reasoned discussion of our financial relationship with Mexico would identify major revenue streams from the US, for example drug revenue from the US, money sent by immigrants living in the US, and US "aid" including weapons systems and cash. This might help bring into focus a potential contribution from Mexico for a "wall", and more rationally, better immigration control without the need for a wall.
7
Exactly. But Mexico does not acknowledge the influx of illegal addictive drugs into our country.
And the dollars that Mexicans earn in the US and send back home make it easier for the Mexican government. That is why they hate the closing of their northern border but close their own southern border to illegal immigrants from Central America.
And the dollars that Mexicans earn in the US and send back home make it easier for the Mexican government. That is why they hate the closing of their northern border but close their own southern border to illegal immigrants from Central America.
1
Your assessment that American policy is "fluid" simply apologizes for an administration that has no idea what it's doing. Instead, the picture seems to be one of chaos created in large measure by utterly untried, uninformed and unprepared staff members who suddenly find themselves doing what they thought they never would--govern.
79
There is one executive. One. Trump decides a lot of things. During the campaign, I heard a lot about how they were both corrupt and that it didn't matter who won. This was the media mantra. Hillary and her emails. Hillary and her Foundation. Trump and his businesses. Trump and his foundation.
As it turns out, it matters a huge amount who is in the White House. Huge. Or, in this case, Yuge. Now we are going to see how it works when we have a president imposing a 20% tariff on Mexican imports. It won't be long before the president is imposing a 20% tariff on Chinese imports and, in that case, it will be enforceable.
As it turns out, it matters a huge amount who is in the White House. Huge. Or, in this case, Yuge. Now we are going to see how it works when we have a president imposing a 20% tariff on Mexican imports. It won't be long before the president is imposing a 20% tariff on Chinese imports and, in that case, it will be enforceable.
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Then I don't even see why we have tariffs if we can't use them. People talk as if they're anathema. If so they shouldn't exist. Don't blame Trump they're there, he didn't make the law allowing for them.
20% tax on Chinese imports? I m not so sure. The Walton family of Walmart fame, of course, and I am sure their many friends in government, just might have something to say about that.
First any such tax has to be done by congress, so it will not happen immediately.
Trump seems to think he can strong arm Mexico. As we see the Mexicans ar furious, they have been good neighbors, they will not be now. Mexico is not without ways to retaliate.
The Canadian prime minster is upset over the pipeline, the Chinese are also furious. Kim Jong has made a threat, probably at the suggestion of the ]Chinese, and the Germans think he is the second coming of il Duce.
We have suddenly become a third world country. The Chinese are taking over in Asia, The E.U. Europe led by Germany, we are suddenly not popular elsewhere. The rest of the world has caught up with us. It is only because of the size of our population that we are such a big customer.
other countries can make goods a good and as fast as we can, and in most cases cheaper. Expenses and profits regress to the mean. Those high paying low skill jobs are gone for a long time.
Trump seems to think he can strong arm Mexico. As we see the Mexicans ar furious, they have been good neighbors, they will not be now. Mexico is not without ways to retaliate.
The Canadian prime minster is upset over the pipeline, the Chinese are also furious. Kim Jong has made a threat, probably at the suggestion of the ]Chinese, and the Germans think he is the second coming of il Duce.
We have suddenly become a third world country. The Chinese are taking over in Asia, The E.U. Europe led by Germany, we are suddenly not popular elsewhere. The rest of the world has caught up with us. It is only because of the size of our population that we are such a big customer.
other countries can make goods a good and as fast as we can, and in most cases cheaper. Expenses and profits regress to the mean. Those high paying low skill jobs are gone for a long time.
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David,
If "no one likes us" look at all the money we can save by not having to pay countries like Mexico to like us. A 10% tax on the $2.9 Billion that is wire transferred to Mexico each year would raise $290 Million. Canada does this now on some payments to the U.S.
If "no one likes us" look at all the money we can save by not having to pay countries like Mexico to like us. A 10% tax on the $2.9 Billion that is wire transferred to Mexico each year would raise $290 Million. Canada does this now on some payments to the U.S.
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Now we have a man as head of our national government who, because of his vain ego, believes that impossible and fabricated events occurred with no evidence to support it, and has gone into a rage when others disagreed with that belief and used what power he had to harm and silence them. This man is now the leader of a world power, commander of the largest military there is, and controller of thousands of nuclear weapons. His words are falsehoods, his actions are erratic, his opinions are contradictory, and his decisions are illogical. He has shown no compassion to the downtrodden and no empathy for humanity. He has blocked scientific knowledge and investigation but rewarded ignorance, bigotry, and hatred. He has insulted and scorned our allies and praised our enemies. He has demeaned democracy and lauded dictators. He has asked for and received illegal help from a foreign government in order to gain a high government office. He has criticized humanitarian aid, advocated war crimes, and overlooked atrocities. He has shown intolerance towards major religions and suggested crusades against them. He has mocked the disabled and bragged about assaulting women. He has abused his power to leer at naked children, disregarded social norms, and dishonored his marriage vows. His status in the world is one ridiculed and disparaged, and he generates fear, animosity, and contempt towards our country. Other world leaders do not trust him, nor do they respect him. This is now our President.
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We don't look so good, do we? We threw a tantrum and chose a nincompoop to guide us. Yikes!
You forgot one thing: Trump is also preparing to make war against we the people. In anticipation, he has weaponized many of our most important institutions, including the tradition of democratic elections, the department of justice, and the media. He is now deploying these weapons.
Can I explain this simply? Ship raw materials to Mexico. Receive an export tax credit. Use the raw materials with the cheap Mexican labor and return the goods at the cost plus labor rate. No tax benefit for the incremental cost of the labor. Viola! 20% tax on labor that is 1/20th the cost of US labor.
No big deal.
Imports have a slight disadvantage that the currency discount adjusts, making our labor that much more disadvantageous.
Coal miners still can't compete with natural gas. Auto workers are still automated out of a job and now the drug lords in Mexico target US vacationers.
No big deal.
Imports have a slight disadvantage that the currency discount adjusts, making our labor that much more disadvantageous.
Coal miners still can't compete with natural gas. Auto workers are still automated out of a job and now the drug lords in Mexico target US vacationers.
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Incorrect. Ship products to Mexico at $100, only the profit is exempt say $10 not the total cost so the 20% tax on the reimport with Mexican labor of 10% or $10 - reimport price of $110 ($22 in border tax) far exceeds the exemption. Sale price needs to be $122 (cost plus tax plus labor less original $10 profit) to break even.
If the material are used to make products in the US (same $90 cost) this allows for US labor cost of for a break even at $32 more than 3x Mexican labor cost.
Point is - the tariff drives manual labor back to the US. Clearly has other intended results (consumer prices if there is no current US production to keep prices low) but it increases US manufacturing jobs.
If the material are used to make products in the US (same $90 cost) this allows for US labor cost of for a break even at $32 more than 3x Mexican labor cost.
Point is - the tariff drives manual labor back to the US. Clearly has other intended results (consumer prices if there is no current US production to keep prices low) but it increases US manufacturing jobs.
Viola?
after your roundtrip is complete... we will have 0$. right? the credit - tax = 0
My financial advisor and I saw the first tremors of recession in November, 2006, while others were sanguine about the economy. A more defensive investment stance resulted, to good effect. Later, with normal balances restored, 2013 was a fabulous year.
2016 was not a bad year, with steady growth throughout after a slow start in the winter. Now we are watching the s***storm forming all around us carefully, ready to hunker down while the administration makes astonishingly bad decisions. No confidence in 2017 at this point.
2016 was not a bad year, with steady growth throughout after a slow start in the winter. Now we are watching the s***storm forming all around us carefully, ready to hunker down while the administration makes astonishingly bad decisions. No confidence in 2017 at this point.
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Then wait til the market crashes and buy low.
2017 will be ok. It will 2018 when things can go south real fast and hard. And the crisis will start in the manufacturing sector that Trump is trying to save/revitalize. The Lehman Bros moment this time will be one of the Big Three auto companies.
Of course, I could be 100% wrong.
Of course, I could be 100% wrong.
First, it sounds like the press secretary should "keep his mouth shut" (in the lingo of Steve Bannon).
Second, a tariff to pay for the wall would mean US consumers would pay for the wall twice. Once with our tax dollars to build the wall and the second time thru higher consumer prices as tariffs are passed thru to consumers.
Third, higher prices and probable shortages would probably result in layoffs in the US as well as Mexico and maybe a recession.
It is hard to understand how starting a trade war before we have capacity to produce our own consumer products would help us.
How nice it would be to have an administration and GOP that would think things through and do what is best for low and middle income Americans.
Second, a tariff to pay for the wall would mean US consumers would pay for the wall twice. Once with our tax dollars to build the wall and the second time thru higher consumer prices as tariffs are passed thru to consumers.
Third, higher prices and probable shortages would probably result in layoffs in the US as well as Mexico and maybe a recession.
It is hard to understand how starting a trade war before we have capacity to produce our own consumer products would help us.
How nice it would be to have an administration and GOP that would think things through and do what is best for low and middle income Americans.
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The assumption here is that Trump knows what he's doing, is floating a plan, that he has considered ramifications and unintended consequences. Nope. Start with the fact that Trump doesn't take advice from experts but does from Steve Bannon, who is only calculating the political consequences and how to manipulate Trump to accommodate Bannon's own dark vision of the world. Then add the startling ignorance of Trump himself as he confidently blusters into one ill advised tweet after another. Mr. Irwin is trying too make sense out of nonsense.
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Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
I know there's a certain amount of ambiguity depending on your angle of view in economics, but if a 20% tariff is placed on imports from Mexico to the tune of $11 billion in U.S. revenue, doesn't that mean that our citizens, businesses, and importers fork over $11 billion in our currency to our government from our pockets to build the wall? Doesn't that mean we would paying for the wall?
(Comparative advantage purists might throw in an additional deadweight loss to both countries.)
I yield to economists on both of the above matters.
As I never like to inflame an already-inflamed situation, can I propose we take a look at El Chapo, decide having him here is worth $11 billion to us, and call the wall paid for?
I know there's a certain amount of ambiguity depending on your angle of view in economics, but if a 20% tariff is placed on imports from Mexico to the tune of $11 billion in U.S. revenue, doesn't that mean that our citizens, businesses, and importers fork over $11 billion in our currency to our government from our pockets to build the wall? Doesn't that mean we would paying for the wall?
(Comparative advantage purists might throw in an additional deadweight loss to both countries.)
I yield to economists on both of the above matters.
As I never like to inflame an already-inflamed situation, can I propose we take a look at El Chapo, decide having him here is worth $11 billion to us, and call the wall paid for?
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We will through higher taxes on imports, you're right. He's raising the taxes on the working class consumers only to lower the corporate taxes for the rich. It's called the Great Tax Shift.
Oh Please!
Why waste your time trying to make sense of the nonsensical. These people are total incompetents led by a lunatic. They don't have any idea of the implications of their proposals. They are just throwing stuff against the wall to see if any of it sticks. This is worse than the blind leading the blind. At least blind people have functioning minds and can make decisions.
The Trump demolition derby has begun and week one isn't even over yet. Never in the history of the known universe has any good come out a trade war. But war we must because our dear leader commands it. Trump has a new toy to play with. It's called the economy and he doesn't know which buttons to push. So he pushed the big red one that says "Do Not Push".
When the lunacy is exposed by merely repeating their idiotic proposals, the Trump head hitman attacks this paper and the profession of journalism. How dare they inform the public of our stupidity. That's the whole point Bannon. You people are stupid.
Why waste your time trying to make sense of the nonsensical. These people are total incompetents led by a lunatic. They don't have any idea of the implications of their proposals. They are just throwing stuff against the wall to see if any of it sticks. This is worse than the blind leading the blind. At least blind people have functioning minds and can make decisions.
The Trump demolition derby has begun and week one isn't even over yet. Never in the history of the known universe has any good come out a trade war. But war we must because our dear leader commands it. Trump has a new toy to play with. It's called the economy and he doesn't know which buttons to push. So he pushed the big red one that says "Do Not Push".
When the lunacy is exposed by merely repeating their idiotic proposals, the Trump head hitman attacks this paper and the profession of journalism. How dare they inform the public of our stupidity. That's the whole point Bannon. You people are stupid.
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this guy has it all over you. some part of you knows it. he can do things, you sit back and are mystified. He's the president. you're watching and frightened.
A 20% tax on German imports would not raise the price of a BMW or Mercedes by 20%, since only the engine and transmission are made in Germany. The other parts are not from Germany, and the cars are assembled in the US. however, it may be that the EU decides to take counter action in the forms of duties on US goods. Farmers may be affected, airplanes may be affected, or perhaps firms such as Google or Facebook. The degree of the EU actions may not be known for some time, but the uncertainty is a factor in shaking up the world economy.
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Hi toom,
The 20% tax applies to Mexican imports. Trump's threatened border tax on Mercedes and BMW is 45%.
Regardless of the resulting cost increase per vehicle, it's troubling that Trump sees the world as a bifurcated Us vs. Them. It's as though he's unaware that both Mercedes and BMW have large American headquarters employing many hundreds of professionals in Georgia and New Jersey respectively, not to mention the owners and staffs of the many dealerships across the country. He may find it unappealing, but the world is interconnected, and attempting to flex his nationalistic muscles will -- should his ill-advised ideas succeed -- visit hardship upon the American workers he pretends he aims to help.
The 20% tax applies to Mexican imports. Trump's threatened border tax on Mercedes and BMW is 45%.
Regardless of the resulting cost increase per vehicle, it's troubling that Trump sees the world as a bifurcated Us vs. Them. It's as though he's unaware that both Mercedes and BMW have large American headquarters employing many hundreds of professionals in Georgia and New Jersey respectively, not to mention the owners and staffs of the many dealerships across the country. He may find it unappealing, but the world is interconnected, and attempting to flex his nationalistic muscles will -- should his ill-advised ideas succeed -- visit hardship upon the American workers he pretends he aims to help.
4
Only a few BMWs are assembled in the USA. That said, there are very few "all American" or "all German" cars. The auto manufacturers all have global supply chains where parts and sub-assemblies are procured from countries around the globe.
First of all, Trump is a gambler. The problem is that other people's money and jobs are on the table.
I guess he had something personal in the past against Mexico That behavior and violence against a neighbour is not seen since the German-France rivalry.
Finally, someone must teach him on how international trade works.
I guess he had something personal in the past against Mexico That behavior and violence against a neighbour is not seen since the German-France rivalry.
Finally, someone must teach him on how international trade works.
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Unfortunately, you can't teach anything to those who are unwilling to learn because they just know that they already know everything there is to know. This is the harsh intersection of ignorance and arrogance. Wisdom is the opposite side, and lamentably, I don't see any of it anywhere guiding the new administration's policies.
Two things to keep in mind, these folks are blinded by their greed, and now that they have the reins of power they will prove that they are all the wrong people making all the wrong decisions, for all the wrong reasons. A judicious reading of the long history of this kind of malfeasance provides ample evidence that this type of political behavior leads to the fall of empires. For more information, read the late great Harvard Historian Barbara W. Tuchman's, The March of Folly.
"Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely," quote from Sir John Acton.
Two things to keep in mind, these folks are blinded by their greed, and now that they have the reins of power they will prove that they are all the wrong people making all the wrong decisions, for all the wrong reasons. A judicious reading of the long history of this kind of malfeasance provides ample evidence that this type of political behavior leads to the fall of empires. For more information, read the late great Harvard Historian Barbara W. Tuchman's, The March of Folly.
"Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely," quote from Sir John Acton.
3
Trump's plan-du-jour, the 20% tariff to pay for his wall, simply means American consumers will be paying for the wall. It will not be Mexico paying for it. It will not be U.S. corporations paying for it. It will be the American consumers trying to buy formerly-cheap goods imported from Mexico.
This is the fly in the ointment of Trump's longstanding shouting about dismantling trade deals. Any effort to implement Trump's protectionist policies will be paid for by American working people. Prices on a vast array of consumer goods will climb. People living paycheck to paycheck will be hurt the most. And, of course, U.S. exports will fall as other countries retaliate, as well they should. Lower exports will mean less business activity. Sounds like a job-killing approach to economic policy. And no amount of currency re-evaluation will stop the damage.
There are rational reasons why Trump had almost all his branded products made overseas, used imported steel to build his buildings, and used undocumented foreign construction workers. But these are alternative facts.
This is the fly in the ointment of Trump's longstanding shouting about dismantling trade deals. Any effort to implement Trump's protectionist policies will be paid for by American working people. Prices on a vast array of consumer goods will climb. People living paycheck to paycheck will be hurt the most. And, of course, U.S. exports will fall as other countries retaliate, as well they should. Lower exports will mean less business activity. Sounds like a job-killing approach to economic policy. And no amount of currency re-evaluation will stop the damage.
There are rational reasons why Trump had almost all his branded products made overseas, used imported steel to build his buildings, and used undocumented foreign construction workers. But these are alternative facts.
83
So, in other words, he will just lie to convince people he is fulfilling his campaign promises.
105
Similar to Carrier when during the primary he threatened them with a 35% import tax if they moved ANY jobs to Mexico. It ended up with only some of the jobs not moving and the Americn taxpayer paid for it! Trump supporters have got a large "S" firmly planted in their forehead.
he never had another plan.... this is it.
Pretty much.
" In other words, he will proclaim that Mexico has paid for the wall as promised — even if the Mexican government never literally cuts a check to pay for new concrete." What's this? More "alternative facts". Even the Mexicans will understand that a border adjustment tax is just a tariff by another name. And that a tariff is nothing more than making Mexico pay for the wall.
This administration is beginning to look more & more like a mad house where objective reality, aka facts don't matter any more.
This administration is beginning to look more & more like a mad house where objective reality, aka facts don't matter any more.
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The income tax provided revenues which tariffs, customs, fees, and taxes on goods just could not, and it still is the most ample source of funding for our big state and national governments. However, the notion that capital drives economies and therefore the more money in the hands of the capitalist entities has made taxing them seen to economic growth killers, and shifting the burden back to consumers and importers has become a popular alternative to income taxes on the very wealthy. Frankly, I think unless everyone is prospering and getting wealthier, economies stagnate because the capitalists run out of customers who can buy their products, but that does not seem to be the thinking of Trump and the Republicans in Congress, so they are willing to raise taxes on imports which could have adverse affects upon trade that have no offsets benefits in our domestic economy.
14
Trump just gave the consumers in the United States his first indirect tax increase. By charging a 20% import tax on goods imported from Mexico, the consumers will have to pay 20% more. Should Mexico reciprocate, producers of goods in the United States will result in a reduction in demand, and therefore layoffs. Stagflation will be the result.
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You can bet trump stands to profit from that somehow. Follow the money trail; or should I say, good luck following the money trail.
You need to look on the bright side. When Mexico stops helping in the War on Drugs the resulting massive increase in supply to the USA will drive down heroin prices and help offset the inflation from food and consumables. *sarcasm*
Remember when Reagan made the Japanese build a certain percentage of their cars here? It worked back then, and it can work again. Currently Japanese car makers still produce a good deal of their cars here, and Germany needs to do the same. American car makers should be held to an even higher standard.
Thank you for trying to reduce the anxiety flowing through the country right now. Despite your best efforts, however, what is clear is that we are dealing with someone who does not have a firm grasp on how economies work, how trade works and what we stand to lose with unilateral actions. My state will suffer since we export lots of farm products to Mexico....no one can't say this is going to painless or trivial.
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And how much tax will Mexico impose to North American products? For example must of the corn use for tortillas comes from the USA. And what about the possibility of Mexico increasing its imports and exports with China, which is part of to Trans Pacific Trade. Or kicking out Walt Mart, etc from Mexico? France did force out some American retailers to promote the French retailers.
15
Yep, all those dry beans & pulses you grow to export to Mexico will just sit in bins unsold. Trump just handed Canada and a half a dozen other countries a golden opportunity to grow the crops that you have previously grown & exported to Mexico.
He has NO grasp whatsoever.
Day six.
Feels like day 666.
Feels like day 666.
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Yes it's exhausting isn't it?
Only 1454 days to go. For the first term.
Day 1460:(
In a confusing day near the end of a confusing week in what is bound to be a supremely confusing month, one thing is clear - this president* and this administration have no idea what they are doing.
They don't know what they don't know and that is very, very dangerous.
They don't know what they don't know and that is very, very dangerous.
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Consumers can't buy goods and won't have to pay taxes on them if they don't have jobs.
1
But does the person who elected him care? You ask the man on the street to explain the intricacies of trade agreements between countries, they would not have a clue. These people hear that trump saved 1000 jobs at Carrier. They don't understand what was given away to get that concession. But if you ask the trump voter how's he doing...they will say he is telling it like it is and that he is doing great. We need these people to wake up and not vote for him again.
They also don't understand the law of unintended consequences...even if those unintended consequences are glaringly obvious.
I'm sorry to mention this but does the Trump administration remind anyone of the Great Leap Forward and the cultural revolution?
126
Yes, only this is Chairman Trump's Great Leap Backward.
17
Yes. Just waiting for him to make all us university professors, lawyers and doctors head to the fields for migrant farm work.
Yes and the former was the topic of my doctoral thesis.
However Trump tries to spin it, the US economy is headed for recession because of the Trump team ineptitude. Globalization is how things work in 2017 and only fools think they can go back to living in a protectionist world.
179
Keep pandering to slave wages and soon slave wages is all it'll require to buy your products.
1