Your headline is misleading. It implies that ALL supplements are useless against arthritis pain. Furthermore when one reads the article it states "On scales measuring how well the knee worked, there was no difference between the treatment and control groups."
We all have rectors that work well, or do not work at all. Some of us are "missing a receptor." All of these possibilities, which are NOT "alternative facts"
account for the variability in individual patient response. For example, after a major (16 hour) abdominal surgery, I was given a fentynal pump. I had not been in a hospital nor had a pain killer in 37 years prior to this surgery. Unlike, morphine or demerol, fentynal provided ZERO pain relief. I hd never heard of it, and pain mismanagement refused to listen to me despite spikes in my blood pressure & my non stop wailing. Eventually, a not so bright bulb from pain mismanagement decided to "potentiate" the fentynal with IV tylenol. I had NEVER had Tylenol in my life. No one bothered to inquire about that fact. In short, my liver immediately failed, I had a massive (and first time) seizure, and was "coded." It took a seizure to give me a little relief because I went into a deep post seizure sleep. Of course, it was ALL blamed on the patient. It was then that pain mismanagement claimed that "this must be a gene." I was jaundiced for three or four months, and it took almost as long for the pain in my right shoulder to disappear. The equally outrageous fact is that my SURGEON lacked the courage to stand up to the pain mismanagement group from the very beginning of those horrific post op 36 hours. I discharged myself & he handed me a script for oxycodone 5mg. A single dose at home abated the pain within minutes!
account for the variability in individual patient response. For example, after a major (16 hour) abdominal surgery, I was given a fentynal pump. I had not been in a hospital nor had a pain killer in 37 years prior to this surgery. Unlike, morphine or demerol, fentynal provided ZERO pain relief. I hd never heard of it, and pain mismanagement refused to listen to me despite spikes in my blood pressure & my non stop wailing. Eventually, a not so bright bulb from pain mismanagement decided to "potentiate" the fentynal with IV tylenol. I had NEVER had Tylenol in my life. No one bothered to inquire about that fact. In short, my liver immediately failed, I had a massive (and first time) seizure, and was "coded." It took a seizure to give me a little relief because I went into a deep post seizure sleep. Of course, it was ALL blamed on the patient. It was then that pain mismanagement claimed that "this must be a gene." I was jaundiced for three or four months, and it took almost as long for the pain in my right shoulder to disappear. The equally outrageous fact is that my SURGEON lacked the courage to stand up to the pain mismanagement group from the very beginning of those horrific post op 36 hours. I discharged myself & he handed me a script for oxycodone 5mg. A single dose at home abated the pain within minutes!
4
Another placebo effect was brought my attention in the report in the New England Journal of Medicine showing that arthroscopic knee surgery for osteoarthritis is no better than a placebo. In its hey day, a half million procedures were done annually with no more effectiveness than placebo. When finally studied with placebo controlled methods, arthroscopic surgery for osteoarthritis was found to be no better than a sham operation.(3) This result isn’t surprising. Arthroscopic surgery simply cannot compete with total knee replacement, since lost cartilage cannot be repaired or “healed” with an arthroscope. ... for more see
http://jeffreydachmd.com/2014/11/power-placebo/
jeffrey dach md
http://jeffreydachmd.com/2014/11/power-placebo/
jeffrey dach md
5
there is a reason why the placebo can produce exactly the same result as the real pill: the whole body is engaged. Why not utilize these facts?
Remember, in 2015 a woman of 44 chose Euthanasia because she was told to "just live with it." Instead, Use the science of the placebo effect:
Reduce Stress chemistry
Understand how med/treatment works
Visualize it working - using all senses.
Use humor - even just smiling can improve immunity factors
Follow a stepped action program routinely to embed the response
More details: Stressed? Anxiety? Your Cure is in the Mirror" C 2015
Remember, in 2015 a woman of 44 chose Euthanasia because she was told to "just live with it." Instead, Use the science of the placebo effect:
Reduce Stress chemistry
Understand how med/treatment works
Visualize it working - using all senses.
Use humor - even just smiling can improve immunity factors
Follow a stepped action program routinely to embed the response
More details: Stressed? Anxiety? Your Cure is in the Mirror" C 2015
1
Statistics: Any time a placebo is *better* than the alternative, either the alternative was doing evil or the "placebo" was itself a drug. This report was of a very poor study.
2
Sorry....but glucosamine with chondroitin DOES work for many people, including me. The fact that it doesn't work for everyone under controlled tests in no way invalidates the excellent results so many have experienced. It might interest your readers to know that it is even sold for use with dogs....and I don't think they are imagining the results!
10
My knee surgeon told me he uses glycosamine because it helps the body to pull fluid into the joint. That's good enough for me.
3
The placebo effect only works if you believe that you are taking an effective medication. That is the problem with all tests vs placebo. Faced with a choice between taking a much-advertised product and taking nothing, most people will buy the supplement. If someone has a solution to this vicious circle, I would like to hear about it.
1
It is called Medication Enhancement
With any medication or treatment:
Reduce stress factors
Understand what medication/treatment does
Visualize it working
Add action steps: take pill with glass of distilled water
When you do this your entire body works to aid the cure
More detail in my book
With any medication or treatment:
Reduce stress factors
Understand what medication/treatment does
Visualize it working
Add action steps: take pill with glass of distilled water
When you do this your entire body works to aid the cure
More detail in my book
1
This may be seen as bad news for those who rely on supplements for osteoarthritis pain and disability, but please consider this: our bodies heal naturally, and this healing power is far beyond what any physician, procedure or drug can produce.
Bad knees run in my very large family (80-ish YO mom has two knee replacements, as do most of her siblings that are still alive). I have a bad knee that has produded obvious limping on and off for about 10 years, but without any treatment I have been pain-free for about 2 years.
The solution was regular and varied activity, as in no desk job and no repetitive stress on joints.
Bad knees run in my very large family (80-ish YO mom has two knee replacements, as do most of her siblings that are still alive). I have a bad knee that has produded obvious limping on and off for about 10 years, but without any treatment I have been pain-free for about 2 years.
The solution was regular and varied activity, as in no desk job and no repetitive stress on joints.
3
A much larger study several years ago did find the combination effective for moderate arthritis of the knees. It can be misleading to over-generalize. And we can be overly fond of debunking past thinking, even when it proves to be correct.
6
Right. Today we know l theonine is in Green Tea
And honey has a physiological action to reduce cough
And honey has a physiological action to reduce cough
1
Dr. Waugaman, can you provide the study citation?
They seem to help my little dog who has osteoarthritis and 4 torn knees, though I also give him Metacam.
If I lower the dose of either, to try stop, he appears to be in pain, becomes lethargic, can't leap on the couch, is snappy if his legs are touched. So he stays on both, bouncy and frisky are good.
I tried it, hoping to get energetic like the pup, didn't do much for me, but I don't have osteoarthritis.
If I lower the dose of either, to try stop, he appears to be in pain, becomes lethargic, can't leap on the couch, is snappy if his legs are touched. So he stays on both, bouncy and frisky are good.
I tried it, hoping to get energetic like the pup, didn't do much for me, but I don't have osteoarthritis.
5
Maybe the your little dog just believes that the drugs help and then gets depressed when he does not receive treatment, accounting for his lethagy!
3
It has been clear for some years that the particular benefits of glucosamine/chondroitin have been, at best, of marginal. But that does not stop out-sized testimonials or unsupported speculations as to beneficial mechanisms.
The nutraceutical industry, where these supplements should be categorized, is massive with a lot of marketing dollars at play. Unless there were some horrible side-effect found, I doubt this most recent study will have much impact. Anything that can be sold will be oversold, particularly when its medical benefits are over-hyped. Just look at the markets for multiple vitamins: http://hub.jhu.edu/2013/12/17/vitamins-might-be-harmful/ .
The nutraceutical industry, where these supplements should be categorized, is massive with a lot of marketing dollars at play. Unless there were some horrible side-effect found, I doubt this most recent study will have much impact. Anything that can be sold will be oversold, particularly when its medical benefits are over-hyped. Just look at the markets for multiple vitamins: http://hub.jhu.edu/2013/12/17/vitamins-might-be-harmful/ .
3
As opposed to the presription drug commercials from Big Pharma saturating the airwaves?
1
My finger joints were getting larger and larger and hurting, even tying shoes and handling knife and fork. Glucosamine advantages were just being published where it lubricates joint lining. My joints stopped enlarging and the pain left so I can even help build my house. Lately I've added hyaluronic acid pills where the chemical is altered to be small enough to be absorbed into the joint fluid. My daughter the doctor prefers injections into the joint every 3 months or so. Note glucosamine is useless if the joint lining is already gone since there's nothing to lubricate. I have no evidence that chondroitin does anything or is even absorbed into the joint since the molecule is too big.
5
The article says users had a 19% decrease in pain. How does that correlate to the assertion that it has no effect?
1
"Placebo" is little more than a code describing, but not explaining, that some material, in some form, has had an effect, which can not be explained in terms of generalizable, scientific, evidence-informed, facts. Which itself is a belief system. In this one time study two groups were given (and believed?) a supplement which was to effect pain from a medical condition whose "workings" is still inadequately understood. One group took the 'real thing,' the other, took 'a nothing?'; which worked better than the real thing. Both were given a supplement by a licensed person whom they trusted since they entrusted their body, self, well being and care to him. Both ingested.Both reported levels and qualities of results. Which proves what? That under certain conditions, which are not measureable, adequately understood, or repeatable, that unexpected outcomes can and do occur. Science labels this process as "placebo." Religion-"miracle."
And in our reality many of us continue not to consider ever present,
interacting, dimensions and operation of uncertainty and unpredictability as we continue to make linear, cause and effect types of plans, experience people, places and events in binary either/or categories, rather than in multidimensional continua...and in addition, and in addition. What was the purpose of publishing this article for NYT readership. To sensitize, and perhaps even to reinforce, during these painful, inflamed, difficult times that relief is just a placebo away?
And in our reality many of us continue not to consider ever present,
interacting, dimensions and operation of uncertainty and unpredictability as we continue to make linear, cause and effect types of plans, experience people, places and events in binary either/or categories, rather than in multidimensional continua...and in addition, and in addition. What was the purpose of publishing this article for NYT readership. To sensitize, and perhaps even to reinforce, during these painful, inflamed, difficult times that relief is just a placebo away?
1
There is clear scientific evidence as to why placebo works; the key is to apply them
There is no illness or condition that cannot be improved by a set of steps that includes stress reduction
, humor/smile and directed visualization
There is no illness or condition that cannot be improved by a set of steps that includes stress reduction
, humor/smile and directed visualization
2
Of course. These supplements aren't about the inflammation of arthritis, they're about helping the body heal micro wear and tear injury of cartilage. So using them after cartilage is destroyed, or for arthritis is unlikely to show benefit.
They aren't drugs in that way. I started taking them in my 20s after years of knee injury problems, and after seeing the big benefit in my dog after a vet recommended following injury. Within 6 months, greatly improved joints. Theyre about early recovery and prevention, not treatment of inflammation.
They aren't drugs in that way. I started taking them in my 20s after years of knee injury problems, and after seeing the big benefit in my dog after a vet recommended following injury. Within 6 months, greatly improved joints. Theyre about early recovery and prevention, not treatment of inflammation.
14
I have taken Glucosamine and chondroitin and msm for many years.
Any older large dog that I have that has joint discomfort is also given the same
amount. If I stop what the dog gets and in a week I see it is having joint
discomfort again, that pretty much tells me to keep taking it myself.
AND keep my weight, and theirs, light. Don't overload the joints!!
Any older large dog that I have that has joint discomfort is also given the same
amount. If I stop what the dog gets and in a week I see it is having joint
discomfort again, that pretty much tells me to keep taking it myself.
AND keep my weight, and theirs, light. Don't overload the joints!!
13
However, animals given Glucosamine and Chondroitin have improved. No dog is going to "fake" getting better!