Resilient design should start by not building in a soon-to-be flooded location. I said 16 years ago that the New World Trade Center should not be rebuild at its former location because it would be flooded; I was right, as Sandy demonstrated.
1
There is an article on Curbed about climate change and rising sea levels in the areas of Brooklyn and Staten Island that, ironically, voted heavily for Trump, while they use the Build-It-Back program to raise the level of their houses and streets:
http://tinyurl.com/h59h5w2
http://tinyurl.com/h59h5w2
2
Atmospheric carbon dioxide levels are above 400 ppm. The last time that happened was 3.2 million years ago in the mid-Pliocene
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pliocene_climate
with global temperatures over 2 °C higher than now and sea levels about 25 meters higher than now. So long as carbon dioxide levels remain that high, both heat and water will equilibriate at the mid-Pliocene levels once again.
While the buildings' air conditioners can handle the former I fear that the flood is beyond design basis.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pliocene_climate
with global temperatures over 2 °C higher than now and sea levels about 25 meters higher than now. So long as carbon dioxide levels remain that high, both heat and water will equilibriate at the mid-Pliocene levels once again.
While the buildings' air conditioners can handle the former I fear that the flood is beyond design basis.
3
We should not lose site of the fact that the fact that an impact of climate change will be not only flooding, but also a significant increase in both the number and duration of extreme heat events.
The 1995 Chicago heat wave led to 739 heat-related deaths over a period of five days--a far more deadly result than that of Sandy. Imagine the potential impact of an extreme weather (either a storm or excessively hot day) knocking out power, followed by a heat wave. Many less-able New Yorkers would be stuck in their sweltering apartments.
Put simply, significant improvements in building envelopes (i.e. better insulated buildings, up to and including those built to passive house standards) are an important part of any climate change resiliency plan. Let's not make the mistake of only preparing to fight the last war.
The 1995 Chicago heat wave led to 739 heat-related deaths over a period of five days--a far more deadly result than that of Sandy. Imagine the potential impact of an extreme weather (either a storm or excessively hot day) knocking out power, followed by a heat wave. Many less-able New Yorkers would be stuck in their sweltering apartments.
Put simply, significant improvements in building envelopes (i.e. better insulated buildings, up to and including those built to passive house standards) are an important part of any climate change resiliency plan. Let's not make the mistake of only preparing to fight the last war.
2
Weren't the natural gas pipelines the source feeding fires in the flooding of Jersey city during Superstorm Sandy? And weren't those pipelines shut off when their integrity was compromised from the flood?
2
And where will all the people be walking, driving or taking the train. In the flood waters. Some secure apartments way up high do not answer the problem of too much water on the ground. If it ever does get that bad, people will be leaving New York City or Miami and they won't be coming back.
Rising sea levels will ultimately cause the complete relocation of major portions of cities like Miami. The Governor of Florida has blocked information on climate change in that state and now President Trump has done the same at the EPA.
Lack of information will not stop the sea.
While I applaud innovation for safety, resilient design will only go so far. The changing climate will advance as it is won't and sea levels will rise creating a new habitable coastline. Bandaid buildings placate for the now. We all know what is really needed but Shh! We can't talk about it for the next 4 years.
Rising sea levels will ultimately cause the complete relocation of major portions of cities like Miami. The Governor of Florida has blocked information on climate change in that state and now President Trump has done the same at the EPA.
Lack of information will not stop the sea.
While I applaud innovation for safety, resilient design will only go so far. The changing climate will advance as it is won't and sea levels will rise creating a new habitable coastline. Bandaid buildings placate for the now. We all know what is really needed but Shh! We can't talk about it for the next 4 years.
6
I think the American Copper Buildings designers provided a thoughtful solution to the problem of rising sea levels that are the inevitable result of global warming. Rising sea levels coupled with storm surges like that from Hurricane Sandy will only become more forceful and make resilient designs very practical.
In my studies of the consequences of global warming it would also be prudent for important economic and population centers to do much more than provide a few buildings that can keep the lights on for a few weeks in the event of a flood.
Dr. James Powell and his colleagues, which includes me, propose building a huge sea wall out of high flotation ice (Pycrete) that would give protective elevation on the order of 20 stories in height in the sea approaches to the important populaton centers.
We have also proposed in a recent book, "Silent Earth", that describes technologies to evolve the industrial world away from fossil fuels.
Briefly, the technologies are a Maglev launched space solar system that beams electric power to Earth, superconducting Maglev transport networks for passengers and freight trucks to link up world populations, and technology for capturing carbon dioxide from air and hydrogen from water to make synthetic jet fuel, gasoline and diesel, and finally a very effective technology for capturing and sequestering carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and isolating it from the atmosphere in geological formations. This last item will be published soon.
In my studies of the consequences of global warming it would also be prudent for important economic and population centers to do much more than provide a few buildings that can keep the lights on for a few weeks in the event of a flood.
Dr. James Powell and his colleagues, which includes me, propose building a huge sea wall out of high flotation ice (Pycrete) that would give protective elevation on the order of 20 stories in height in the sea approaches to the important populaton centers.
We have also proposed in a recent book, "Silent Earth", that describes technologies to evolve the industrial world away from fossil fuels.
Briefly, the technologies are a Maglev launched space solar system that beams electric power to Earth, superconducting Maglev transport networks for passengers and freight trucks to link up world populations, and technology for capturing carbon dioxide from air and hydrogen from water to make synthetic jet fuel, gasoline and diesel, and finally a very effective technology for capturing and sequestering carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and isolating it from the atmosphere in geological formations. This last item will be published soon.
1
This is the optimists view:
Acclimatization to a hotter world is a necessity for survival. However there are limitations. Adaptation to this new world can only partly be achieved through physiological responses. The remainder must derive from orchestrated strategies to reduce exposures via alterations to social, cultural technological and behavioral patterns. Shifts in housing and urban design, clothing, socially accepted behaviors and working hours will be required, as well as reorientations in industry, infrastructure and transport. Such major transformational changes will require decades to achieve, especially in the realm of infrastructure, housing and urban design. The complexity and embedded character of existing systems throughout the socio-political and economic fabric of society, coupled with propensity for inaction suggest that a coordinated multi-frontal approach is essential. This is necessary for human survival and sustained societal functioning in an increasingly hot climate. That process needs to start now.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4515708/
Acclimatization to a hotter world is a necessity for survival. However there are limitations. Adaptation to this new world can only partly be achieved through physiological responses. The remainder must derive from orchestrated strategies to reduce exposures via alterations to social, cultural technological and behavioral patterns. Shifts in housing and urban design, clothing, socially accepted behaviors and working hours will be required, as well as reorientations in industry, infrastructure and transport. Such major transformational changes will require decades to achieve, especially in the realm of infrastructure, housing and urban design. The complexity and embedded character of existing systems throughout the socio-political and economic fabric of society, coupled with propensity for inaction suggest that a coordinated multi-frontal approach is essential. This is necessary for human survival and sustained societal functioning in an increasingly hot climate. That process needs to start now.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4515708/
2
Whether it's buildings, or roads, or bridges or water treatment plants, our nation's civil infrastructure has been designed based on the obscure but foundational assumption of stationarity: past environmental conditions are reliable predictors of future conditions. There was good reasons for doing this. As author and environmentalist Bill McKibbben noted in his book, Eaarth: Making a Life on a Tough New Planet, “For the last 10,000 years that constitute human civilization, we’ve existed in the sweetest of sweet spots…average temperature between 58-60 degrees F…seas tame and level…predicable heat and rainfall…” But, because of global climate change, we are no longer in the "sweetest of sweet spots." Non-stationarity is now the new normal. The consequences are not only rising sea level/storm surge combos, but rising temperatures, extreme storms, extended droughts and heatwaves, along with secondary and tertiary effects that are not necessarily intuitive. Spending big bucks to be able to live in your apartment for a week in case of flooding doesn't take into account the loss of other infrastructure systems, e.g., transportation, water and wastewater treatment, that another Hurricane Sandy-like storm or two (or three) would bring. Resilient design is not just about spiffing up a building. It's about reinventing engineering design approaches, re-imagining infrastructure systems and redefining problem boundaries.
3
Typical American - rather than fix the underlying problem with hard work and discipline, we opt for an inefficient quick fix that benefits only the rich and famous.
5
miami beach, trendily called sobe, has real estate on a par w bel aire in ca
well written article explaining it w good graphics as well
This foundation for Miami Beach’s future is actually a complicated and expensive experiment: As much as $500 million to install 80 pumps and raise roads and seawalls across the city. A first phase appears to be working, at least for now. But just one year into a massive public works project that could take six more, it’s way too soon to say whether and for how long it can keep the staggeringly valuable real estate of an international tourist mecca dry — especially in the face of sea level rise projections that seem to only get scarier with every new analysis.
"We don’t have a playbook for this," said Betsy Wheaton, assistant building director for environment and sustainability in Miami Beach.
Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/a...
3
Leftist hysteria.
4
The good news: your condo will be above the floodwaters.
The bad news: you'll need a raft to leave your home and all necessary goods and services will be submerged.
Solution: start growing gills...
The bad news: you'll need a raft to leave your home and all necessary goods and services will be submerged.
Solution: start growing gills...
5
I'll bite. Why wouldn't the tenants of these building, where market rate rents start at $3,600 per month, just evacuate when they hear a hurricane is on the way? Presumably they have means to relocate temporarily in an owned or rented vehicle. The thing about hurricanes is there is sufficient advance notice so there is time to evacuate. Few people can ride out a hurricane safely. Money won't get Fish and Wildlife, I don't know what the equivalent is in NYC, to send their rescue boats any faster in an extreme flooding situation. It is better to leave when you can. #lessonsfromkatrina
This isn't germane to the article but I wonder whether the "affordable" apartments have the exact same amenities as the market rate apartments. I suppose I am not compassionate but I would't want to pay $3600 for an apartment and learn my neighbor is only paying $895 for the same apartment.
This isn't germane to the article but I wonder whether the "affordable" apartments have the exact same amenities as the market rate apartments. I suppose I am not compassionate but I would't want to pay $3600 for an apartment and learn my neighbor is only paying $895 for the same apartment.
2
" I would't want to pay $3600 for an apartment and learn my neighbor is only paying $895 for the same apartment."
Typically the subsidized tenant doesn't get use of all the amenities. The subsidized units are usually smaller as well less fancy cabinetry, counter tops and bathrooms for instance. Plus, the city forces the builders to put in subsidized units in order to get a permit to build. The city usually allows something extra like a couple of extra floors or a larger footprint.
Typically the subsidized tenant doesn't get use of all the amenities. The subsidized units are usually smaller as well less fancy cabinetry, counter tops and bathrooms for instance. Plus, the city forces the builders to put in subsidized units in order to get a permit to build. The city usually allows something extra like a couple of extra floors or a larger footprint.
Seems to me that this trend should be reported to the Disloyalty Police. The great and powerful Oz has said there is no climate change.
9
Good marketing tool! And it isn't stupid to install generators in any building. Many of my friends have generators for their homes -- who knows when the power will go?
But to suggest these builders are somehow giving up profit to ensure safety simply out of the goodness of their heart is naive. Given the progressive delusions about climate change, a place to live in Manhattan that has generators that will last for a week is a marketing plus. They'll probably be able to charge higher than market rates and/or ensure full occupancy. And at what cost? Can the writers identify what the builders are forfeiting by their largess?
Making sure the refrigerator works and you have an outlet -- nice -- but what about things like heating or cooling? Can you open a window if it's hot? Will the generators support a heater if it's cold? Suppose a giant winter storm knocks out all power?
And linking this to climate change is silly. Storms, sure. Regardless of CC, anyone who lives near the ocean engages the risk of a big storm. But, if CC is real and seas rise significantly, the generators aren't going to help much. And, by the time the sea level rises enough to make a difference (should that happen) then buildings like this will likely be 100+ years old and ready to tear down and do over.
And -- the value of engineering buildings to avert the impact of significant sea rise only will be of value if other buildings in Manhattan and infrastructure have done so also.
But to suggest these builders are somehow giving up profit to ensure safety simply out of the goodness of their heart is naive. Given the progressive delusions about climate change, a place to live in Manhattan that has generators that will last for a week is a marketing plus. They'll probably be able to charge higher than market rates and/or ensure full occupancy. And at what cost? Can the writers identify what the builders are forfeiting by their largess?
Making sure the refrigerator works and you have an outlet -- nice -- but what about things like heating or cooling? Can you open a window if it's hot? Will the generators support a heater if it's cold? Suppose a giant winter storm knocks out all power?
And linking this to climate change is silly. Storms, sure. Regardless of CC, anyone who lives near the ocean engages the risk of a big storm. But, if CC is real and seas rise significantly, the generators aren't going to help much. And, by the time the sea level rises enough to make a difference (should that happen) then buildings like this will likely be 100+ years old and ready to tear down and do over.
And -- the value of engineering buildings to avert the impact of significant sea rise only will be of value if other buildings in Manhattan and infrastructure have done so also.
3
Here's an idea: Our of sheer sane self-interest, maybe the wealthy, instead of spending fortunes on flood-proof enclaves and hoarded resources for global warming's destruction of ecosystems, could pay higher taxes to fund construction of alternative energy systems that would both reduce carbon emissions and provide well-paid long-term employment (reducing the "other rising tide" of absurd income equality ).... Nah, instead build dystopian high-rise fortresses --akin to spending billions on giant border walls to keep out the desperate-- decadently wasteful, ineffectual, and heartbreakingly dumb.
13
More likely than not, during a true man made or natural disaster, the wealthy will just jump into their rooftop helicopters, go to Teterboro airport, then fly their jets to their prepper hidey holes, private islands, New Zealand or where ever.
5
Since there is no "Global Warming" nor is there any human caused "Climate Change" nor are the seas rising, the entire effort is idiotic. Floods do happen, but it is a function of normal, episodic events that are random and unpredictable. Too bad the city is governed by lunatics. Unless one is very wealthy, who with a brain moves "to" NYC?
1
Apparently, the developers don't agree with their fellow builder and New Yorker, Donald J. Trump, who has declared climate change to be a hoax.
7
Or it's just a hyped up marketing ploy.
All this for a sea level rise of 16 inches per century.
Yes, storm surges occur, but sea level rise has little to do with them.
Yes, storm surges occur, but sea level rise has little to do with them.
They are additive.
1
Antarctica contains some 7 million cubic miles of ice. The world's oceans cover some 35 million square miles. If 10% of the Antarctic ice sheet were to melt into the oceans, that would increase then depth of them by something like 0.02 miles, or about 100 feet. Melting of 10% Greenland's glaciers would be the icing on the cake (another 25 feet of water, or so). Let us hope things don't warm enough to do that.
6
As the temperature of the oceans rises, the water expands, so it's not only the melting of polar ice that contributes to a rise in sea level.
4
Let's add that the albedo, reflective ice is lost, the heat is absorbed adding to warming, ie self reinforcing feedback loops. Housing is useless without food and water. And what will these surviving residents do after a week? Will those apartments also be radioactive resistant? Indian Point and Toms River only have two weeks power before those pools start to dry out and the reactor cores start heating up. Stick around NYC for a week waiting for the cavalry? Dumb or Dumber.
200 species disappearing each day. Fact check that.
200 species disappearing each day. Fact check that.
1
Although your argument is mathematically correct, global sea level rises with increases in melt are not equal.
http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/globalsl.html
http://www.climatecentral.org/news/ice-melt-means-uneven-sea-level-rise-...
Some places will be hit harder than others. That ounce of prevention (or preparation) sure sounds like a good idea but at some point having a bomb shelter was a good idea as well. Those may also be coming back into style...
http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/globalsl.html
http://www.climatecentral.org/news/ice-melt-means-uneven-sea-level-rise-...
Some places will be hit harder than others. That ounce of prevention (or preparation) sure sounds like a good idea but at some point having a bomb shelter was a good idea as well. Those may also be coming back into style...
2
Please let us know when the owner of that famous waterfront property, Mar-a-Lago, decides to do something about the climate change risks of rising seas and more severe storms. The inevitable flooding of that property will provide a gratifying instance of poetic justice. Bigly.
16
Bravo! Finally someone with sense. Climate change is just climate. If storms will be worse and if water levels rise we need to prepare. It is no accident that most if not all ancient capitals were located away far from the vulnerable coastal areas, like Rome, for example. It we choose to live in the most climatically and environmentally hazardous areas, we must prepare for the worst as a matter of good stewardship.
1
NY Times readers would benefit from familiarizing themselves with actual sea level rise data from NOAA. It shows that trend at the Battery has been 2.8 millimeters per year, with no increase in recent years.
2
So I guess the argument is that hurricane Sandy was caused by global warming? Only in the minds of fanatical "progressives" who believe in the climate Apocalypse.
4
What do those silly climate scientists know, anyway?
Third year in a row for record high temperatures. It was 50 degrees in the Arctic this winter. I only hope you live long enough to see your folly
Third year in a row for record high temperatures. It was 50 degrees in the Arctic this winter. I only hope you live long enough to see your folly
3
After reading this all I can think is "we are a stupid and short sighted species". What was that saying again about an ounce of prevention?
7
Well I'll give the developers credit for the sales pitch and I'm sure the engineers had fun rigging in all these redundant systems. The idea that you can "flood proof" a building in the crosshairs of sea-level rise in the middle of a city is just silly. Sure, the occupants might ride out a week or two in creature comfort while they come to terms with the realization that their property values have imploded and the next flood is going to be worse. Thanks but I think I'll build on higher ground.
18
You could row to work. What's the problem?
2
Hopefully this is the beginning of many new voices being heard on the issue of global warming and rising sea levels. Regardless of what some members of congress are saying, serious investors are beginning to realize that their real-estate is at risk.
If this is true for New York, it's true for developments all over the east coast. When insurance companies decide they can no longer insure these properties and banks decline mortgages maybe then the politicians in Washington will realize that this is a very serious problem.
The issue is not whether seas will rise and inundate many areas, but when and how bad it will be.
If this is true for New York, it's true for developments all over the east coast. When insurance companies decide they can no longer insure these properties and banks decline mortgages maybe then the politicians in Washington will realize that this is a very serious problem.
The issue is not whether seas will rise and inundate many areas, but when and how bad it will be.
8
it is a marketing ploy. An amenity. It makes an unlivable space in case of an extended disaster something maybe, maybe you might survive in. Maybe. But it is not any protection against significantly rising seas -- if that should happen.
1
Any building over 200 feet is not sustainable in any sense. This is called physics. In order to deal with climate change, you are going to have to stop building sky scrapers everywhere. Sky scrapers are like automobiles, you can see the trees but you can't see the forest. In other words, we have developed a atomized society that has a selfish childlike aesthetic of shiny objects. The majority of Americans say they care about the environment as they jump into their beautiful cars to drive around to look at their beautiful cities and complain about everything that is being caused by some mystical agent.
6
Perhaps the architects and engineers would be wise to add a boat dock.
16
There is no place on this planet that will guarantee eternal safety. Quite frankly, compared historically to other parts of the country which regularly experience tornadoes, earthquakes, flooding, etc., Manhattan has done quite.
3
quite WELL. Oops.
It takes more than a cellphone and working refrigerator to survive for more than a week. Most people don't stock their pantry with sufficient emergency rations for that long. This means food that doesn't need to be cooked in case stoves can't work. Water is another issue. Storms don't just damage power lines, they can disrupt gas lines and make water from the tap undrinkable.
But it's a start knowing that real estate developers are attempting to learn from the past, planning for the future, and eschewing the notion of maximizing every last square foot for profit. I sense this is somehow driven by insurance companies, as I doubt the big money real estate folks are doing this out of the goodness of their hearts. One would think, given all the profits they're leaving on the table, that they hand out pamphlets to all the tenants containing information on what else is needed to survive a week without power besides a working cellphone and fridge. (Hint: anticipate that stores and restaurants will be closed, and anything available for purchase will be gone within a day or two. Trucks won't be able to enter the city, most folks have no idea how crucial trucks are in providing essentials. No large city can survive for more than a few days without running out of necessities when trucks can't replenish the goods everyone depends on.)
But it's a start knowing that real estate developers are attempting to learn from the past, planning for the future, and eschewing the notion of maximizing every last square foot for profit. I sense this is somehow driven by insurance companies, as I doubt the big money real estate folks are doing this out of the goodness of their hearts. One would think, given all the profits they're leaving on the table, that they hand out pamphlets to all the tenants containing information on what else is needed to survive a week without power besides a working cellphone and fridge. (Hint: anticipate that stores and restaurants will be closed, and anything available for purchase will be gone within a day or two. Trucks won't be able to enter the city, most folks have no idea how crucial trucks are in providing essentials. No large city can survive for more than a few days without running out of necessities when trucks can't replenish the goods everyone depends on.)
16
I am always ready. you just have to make the decision that you will not be a victim. Everyone in the Country needs to have a minimum of three months' food and water . . . . . or you could be one of the folks in the Super-dome, I suppose.
2
Also, a working sewer system is pretty important.
4
Ryan, hardly anyone living in a densely-populated city such as NYC has the space to store 3 months' worth of food and water - at least, not without turning a bedroom or living room or even most of an apartment into a warehouse.
Even if you're storing freeze-dried, vacuum-packed foods, you'd need to keep these in water-tight containers. The water alone needed for 3 months would take up a huge amount of space.
Then you also need batteries - plus tp & other personal hygiene products - although I'm sure in such a scenario, cleanliness & grooming will need to take a back seat.
And there's the matter of human & animal waste - where does it go when the toilets aren't working and neither is public sanitation?
Even if you're storing freeze-dried, vacuum-packed foods, you'd need to keep these in water-tight containers. The water alone needed for 3 months would take up a huge amount of space.
Then you also need batteries - plus tp & other personal hygiene products - although I'm sure in such a scenario, cleanliness & grooming will need to take a back seat.
And there's the matter of human & animal waste - where does it go when the toilets aren't working and neither is public sanitation?
3
I applaud the ingenuity of the highly skilled engineering it takes to raise this building in a vulnerable area of the city.
For the near future, some folks will collect a small fortune. People living there will have the comfort of knowing they will be inconvenienced occasionally, yet they will retain use of their precious smart phones. It's important. There will come a day, if we do not address climate change, when the flood does not recede, when the power never returns. Coastal cities around the world will simply have to get up and move to the high ground. Sadly, if projections are close to on target, these catastrophic events will take place in my, and your, children's lifetime. Almost 1/2 of Florida will be under water, the tallest buildings poking out of the waves seemingly in the middle of the ocean, much like trees after a dam is built and a new lake is created. For all of man's glorious creative, and industrial superiority we grossly lack foresight. It is as though we are becoming parasitic. Parasites, if left unchecked eventually may kill the host.
In the distant future, pergaps historians may be puzzled by the fact we chose our smart phone over smart choices.
For the near future, some folks will collect a small fortune. People living there will have the comfort of knowing they will be inconvenienced occasionally, yet they will retain use of their precious smart phones. It's important. There will come a day, if we do not address climate change, when the flood does not recede, when the power never returns. Coastal cities around the world will simply have to get up and move to the high ground. Sadly, if projections are close to on target, these catastrophic events will take place in my, and your, children's lifetime. Almost 1/2 of Florida will be under water, the tallest buildings poking out of the waves seemingly in the middle of the ocean, much like trees after a dam is built and a new lake is created. For all of man's glorious creative, and industrial superiority we grossly lack foresight. It is as though we are becoming parasitic. Parasites, if left unchecked eventually may kill the host.
In the distant future, pergaps historians may be puzzled by the fact we chose our smart phone over smart choices.
5
Sandy flooded the subways, it also flooded the road tunnels. Most of the subways recovered within a few weeks except for the 'L' train which faces a multi-year overhaul due to water damage.
How many times must the subway flood before New York City ceases to function altogether? The rich condo owners can buy pumps and switchgear but the city as a whole cannot. There is a fairly tight bound to the costs the city can absorb before the entire enterprise is ruined.
The public sector assumption following Sandy is that similar- or greater flood is something to worry about a hundred years from now, that the changes needed to prevent that second flood can be put off. The stone lobbies and generators are denial made concrete, they represent the failure to take real danger seriously, to whistle past the graveyard and hope the consequences of inaction fall on 'that guy behind the tree'.
There IS no guy behind the tree only a mirage.
Not only unfair but foolish.
How many times must the subway flood before New York City ceases to function altogether? The rich condo owners can buy pumps and switchgear but the city as a whole cannot. There is a fairly tight bound to the costs the city can absorb before the entire enterprise is ruined.
The public sector assumption following Sandy is that similar- or greater flood is something to worry about a hundred years from now, that the changes needed to prevent that second flood can be put off. The stone lobbies and generators are denial made concrete, they represent the failure to take real danger seriously, to whistle past the graveyard and hope the consequences of inaction fall on 'that guy behind the tree'.
There IS no guy behind the tree only a mirage.
Not only unfair but foolish.
28
Build as high as you like. Water and erosion will win. Failure of the substrate due to inundation is assured.
12
I applaud the NYT for educating the public about resilient design. I thought the associated glossary was a good idea. But if you are educating the public please try to use the correct terms. Why are they always 'emergency' generators. The correct term in this case is 'standby' generator. Emergency equipment is associated with life safety systems. Sheltering in place requires optional standby systems. Operating the elevators during an evacuation requires 'legally required standby power'. The 'emergency' power system is mostly limited to the egress path illumination. I understand that 'emergency' is used casually in conversation to describe these systems but I think that the NYT can be more precise in an article where the purpose is the educate their readers,
12
Your point is well taken about my reflexive use of imprecise conversational language. I'll follow your suggestion in the future.
4
"Concrete steps" in the article's title might help solve this problem.
2
As the series unfolds, you will indeed see concrete steps used as natural flood barriers.
5
Great.....but what about already-standing older buildings? What is being done to safeguard them?
4
By the way, did the architect of those two towers in Murray Hill - one leaning as if it is going to fall over any moment - really think that is a look New Yorkers need to see every day?
11
If you were alive in 1675 London, you probably would have been one of the many who did not want to look at the Roman grandeur of St Paul's.
2
It is not St Paul's. And the orange arches in Central Park's installation were not Mozart.
A smart move; unfortunately the politicians of America will spend trillions of taxpayer dollars on useless levees and dikes and other devices in futile attempts to "save" what will not be able to be "saved" in the decades to come. The national flood insurance program is complicit in this waste of moeny as it continues to offer taxpayer-funded insurance for homes sure to be inundated in the future.
4
Flood insurance keeps going up. Mine has tripled since Katrina and I'm grandfathered in. We're also being held to new standards to minimize flood damage.
We are paying for all those people who didn't bother to buy insurance ahead of Katrina and Sandy.
We are paying for all those people who didn't bother to buy insurance ahead of Katrina and Sandy.
This is like the home fallout shelter, for you & your family only, while bombs destroy your city. We worry about the individual not the community.
9
In that case, you have to realize that you cannot save everyone.
1
People may want to live there because they are also beautiful buildings. Very different from the blue-glass boxes going up all over the city.
6
I guess this begs the question, why weren't these sorts of measures adopted after the Great Hurricane of 1938, or the Great Atlantic Hurricane of 1944, or Hurricane Carol (1954), or Hurricane Donna (1960), or any of the other catastrophic storms of the latter half of the twentieth century? "Extreme weather" as the Times puts it is not new. You can take some precautionary measures, but there is no escape from "extreme weather" now or in the future. Humans will always be subject to the elements. You can try to minimize the impacts, but you certainly can't eliminate them.
6
So you seem to have missed the obvious thesis that rising sea levels will render extreme weather more of a problem. Extreme weather is not new, but sea levels that threaten Manhattan, or the waterfront in San Francisco are, in the history of those cities, and storm surges on top of water levels that are even marginally higher will be an increasing problem. This is why builders and insurance companies are now factoring in sea level rise and climate change. They have money on the line, not just ideas they need to defend regardless of the evidence.
4
The article addresses storm water, but what about blackwater?
What do they do with the sewage if the building is inundated? Floodwaters would overwhelm the sewer system and a tall apartment building would generate significant waste.
Have they installed massive septic tanks capable of handling the human and animal waste- plus cooking waste of the many residents? That stuff cannot just be dumped into the storm sewers or discharged into the floodwater as it would compound the pollution and create a significant public health threat.
It is an interesting subject, but if a Katrina like event happened in Manhattan the disaster would be multiplied many times over due to the density of population.
Also, how would they deal with desperate people who appear at the door in the event of a disaster? Would they let them in, would the people fleeing drowning from other buildings have a right to enter, etc.
This is the conundrum faced by the preppers. If you have all this stuff stored and have a backup generator and such, might you become a magnet for those who do not in the event of a disaster? What are the legal guidelines for such things?
What do they do with the sewage if the building is inundated? Floodwaters would overwhelm the sewer system and a tall apartment building would generate significant waste.
Have they installed massive septic tanks capable of handling the human and animal waste- plus cooking waste of the many residents? That stuff cannot just be dumped into the storm sewers or discharged into the floodwater as it would compound the pollution and create a significant public health threat.
It is an interesting subject, but if a Katrina like event happened in Manhattan the disaster would be multiplied many times over due to the density of population.
Also, how would they deal with desperate people who appear at the door in the event of a disaster? Would they let them in, would the people fleeing drowning from other buildings have a right to enter, etc.
This is the conundrum faced by the preppers. If you have all this stuff stored and have a backup generator and such, might you become a magnet for those who do not in the event of a disaster? What are the legal guidelines for such things?
20
Combined Sewer Overflow is already an issue with every rain event in the 5-boroughs. This can't be solved on a building by building basis, but through municipal infrastructure. Important set of issues, but separate from any discussion of a 100 year storm event.
4
That's why you need to be armed. It's a looting situation. Not every person who knocks on your door would like you to share if you can. He may want it all!
No mention in this article about raising the entrances on a podium so that in the event of flooding, water cannot enter the building. I would think that such a simple design feature would become de rigueur.
I hope that future articles discuss the construction of natural barriers, including earthen berms along the water front to protect low-lying areas. I would think that New York would look into doing this in lower Manhattan, Red Hook, and Newtown Creek, among other areas.
I hope that future articles discuss the construction of natural barriers, including earthen berms along the water front to protect low-lying areas. I would think that New York would look into doing this in lower Manhattan, Red Hook, and Newtown Creek, among other areas.
10
Complete nonsense!!
Following our experience in Superstorm Sandy, all waterfront development should have been re-examined. That these towers are being built right on the river, is going to make the developers wealthy immediately. Meanwhile, those who purchase these luxury apartments will suffer once the next storm comes.
Move these big towers to higher ground if you want to avoid the inevitable flooding. It is simply a matter of time.
Following our experience in Superstorm Sandy, all waterfront development should have been re-examined. That these towers are being built right on the river, is going to make the developers wealthy immediately. Meanwhile, those who purchase these luxury apartments will suffer once the next storm comes.
Move these big towers to higher ground if you want to avoid the inevitable flooding. It is simply a matter of time.
31
These are rental only
5
FYI -- These are RENTAL buildings with 800 rental units. The developer JDS is taking a risk here. Twenty percent of the units in the two towers will be designated affordable, with the remaining eighty percent to be rented at market.
Agree that this should have been an area of parkland and flood abatement. Unfortunately, with the high stakes property values and historical land ownership history dating back centuries, it is very expensive for the city to claim imminent domain and pay fair market value.
Agree that this should have been an area of parkland and flood abatement. Unfortunately, with the high stakes property values and historical land ownership history dating back centuries, it is very expensive for the city to claim imminent domain and pay fair market value.
4
whomever lives there will eventually be flooded out
3
Great article. It's important to publicize positive examples of resilient design. You might want to take a look at Spaulding Rehab Hospital in Boston as another such example. It is profiled on the Resilient Design Institute website: http://www.resilientdesign.org/how-to-make-a-hospital-resilient-a-tour-o...
7
Great planning - they can live for a week! Who is going to pull the plug on the ocean? Lots of money but short on sense! The level of dumbing down has reached the top! I expect that like the President - these people do not read books.
9
This is where Trump could build his wall, around Manhattan, to keep the water out. And he could make the rich pay for it.
27
What a fantastic idea! It is important to implement long term planning that is ready for any situation. Would love to see this design in more projects in the future.
3
I wonder when we will see announcements of "cost cutting" measures in the military that closes some bases - that just happen to be next to water? Or the investment or expansion of other bases - where that investment just happens to be away from the water - to "make the military great again"?
1
For the skeptics, this is the way the world works. First, innovators introduce expensive new ideas in expensive new places. Experience works out the unforeseen, and often costly, bugs in the new technologies, and then the best measures trickle down to the rest of us.
4
I'm constantly amazed at the glossy ads in the NYT magazine for the new High-Rises going up in Miami Beach, an island that is literally sinking into the ocean.
When the buildings become inhabitable in the next couple decades, the owners will no doubt petition the federal government to literally bail them out.
When the buildings become inhabitable in the next couple decades, the owners will no doubt petition the federal government to literally bail them out.
35
This is a rental.
I'm reminded of the I.P.C.C. report on the costs of global climate change. Even modest changes in temperature have large costs. Witness example A: Apartment buildings in major cities now require significantly more planning and money in order to hedge against inevitable future flooding. Even if you don't feel threatened by climate change, architects and real estate developers apparently do. Presumably consumers will also pay the added assurance in rent.
More alarming, there was a book a few years ago called "The Long Emergency" by James Howard Kunstler. So far Kunstler's predictions are mostly quacky and inaccurate. However, he made an interesting point about our ability to cope with natural disasters. If the national guard can't get to you within 9 days or so, that's effectively the end of civilization for you. You're on your own. A community might mobilize together but you're operating on borrowed time. Tick-tock.
As you go to fill out your tax forms this year, please keep that government service in mind. Simple things like potable water become extremely dangerous surprisingly quickly.
More alarming, there was a book a few years ago called "The Long Emergency" by James Howard Kunstler. So far Kunstler's predictions are mostly quacky and inaccurate. However, he made an interesting point about our ability to cope with natural disasters. If the national guard can't get to you within 9 days or so, that's effectively the end of civilization for you. You're on your own. A community might mobilize together but you're operating on borrowed time. Tick-tock.
As you go to fill out your tax forms this year, please keep that government service in mind. Simple things like potable water become extremely dangerous surprisingly quickly.
4
LOL Just another silly excuse to charge even more for these apartments.
2
the rich can afford them
they save money by not paying taxes
they save money by not paying taxes
4
The Article tries to make the builders response seem like a response to global warming and rising waters. But rather it appears to be a response to a catastrophic but limited event such as the once every 500 years flood which was and is a very real risk regardless of global warming when building so close to the waterline.
The response to global warming and its permanent rise in water levels would be to build the high rise in Scranton.
No one who really takes global warming and the radical rise in water levels attendant to such warming seriously should build or buy near the waterline. A true believer in global warming should not be living in Manhattan.
The response to global warming and its permanent rise in water levels would be to build the high rise in Scranton.
No one who really takes global warming and the radical rise in water levels attendant to such warming seriously should build or buy near the waterline. A true believer in global warming should not be living in Manhattan.
3
How arrogant to presume one can avoid the effects of climate change if they are wealthy. Wake up!!!
8
The species is too stupid to survive! We do not learn. Something is desperately tragically wrong with us!
Cities should not be built below sea level! Equally: It is a fool's errand to build against the sea!
By Federal law, insurance should not be available within x miles of ANY coastline and what policies currently exist should expire within (to be determined) x number of years without possibility of renewal.
The money that is absolutely being wasted shoring up the shorelines (as stupid as that sounds) should be invested building up the adjacent interior. There, the money spent is the future; today's money spent is simply some firm's profit.
There is no, "at least a week." For us to learn the moral of the Titantic, it would have to sink every week! Listen to this quote form Arthur Rostron, Captain of the rescue ship Carpathia: "If you look in your dictionary you will find: Titans - A race of people vainly striving to overcome the forces of nature. Could anything be more unfortunate than such a name, anything more significant?"
My God, is that not us! Just stupid.
Penthouse graves is more like it.
Cities should not be built below sea level! Equally: It is a fool's errand to build against the sea!
By Federal law, insurance should not be available within x miles of ANY coastline and what policies currently exist should expire within (to be determined) x number of years without possibility of renewal.
The money that is absolutely being wasted shoring up the shorelines (as stupid as that sounds) should be invested building up the adjacent interior. There, the money spent is the future; today's money spent is simply some firm's profit.
There is no, "at least a week." For us to learn the moral of the Titantic, it would have to sink every week! Listen to this quote form Arthur Rostron, Captain of the rescue ship Carpathia: "If you look in your dictionary you will find: Titans - A race of people vainly striving to overcome the forces of nature. Could anything be more unfortunate than such a name, anything more significant?"
My God, is that not us! Just stupid.
Penthouse graves is more like it.
15
Much of New York's infrastructure is already below sea level and it works fine. It will cost money to protect the city against rising sea levels, but a only a small amount in relation to the value of what is already here.
New York is a large natural harbor at the mouth of a navigable river, and in consequence the hub of major land routes as well. That's not going to change for a long time, if at all.
New York is a large natural harbor at the mouth of a navigable river, and in consequence the hub of major land routes as well. That's not going to change for a long time, if at all.
11
Cheers to the NYT for launching a series on the emergence of climate-resilient building in NYC. It's so important to focus on what we can do to confront climate-disprutions.
But, while keeping the lights on, elevators, refrigerators and cell phones working are essential for sheltering in place in case of devastating weather events, heating in the winter and cooling in the summer are also essential to sheltering in place. I look forward to this series reporting on these resilience features too
But, while keeping the lights on, elevators, refrigerators and cell phones working are essential for sheltering in place in case of devastating weather events, heating in the winter and cooling in the summer are also essential to sheltering in place. I look forward to this series reporting on these resilience features too
9
Thank you. Please send examples of buildings around New York City with this kind of extra heating and cooling capacity to [email protected].
4
Oh goody. I was worried about what the 1% would do about climate change. But then, silly me--why should I fret? The 1% have historically lived up high as to avoid the rif-raf and floods below.
15
Did you listen to Fresh Air last night? Teri Gross interviewed Evan Osnos about his New Yorker article "DOOMSDAY PREP FOR THE SUPER-RICH". It follows your comment to its logical conclusion.
3
The 0.1% lived up high because they had servants to carry them there. But, the 1% lived low because it was easier to get there. It was the 99% who had to trudge up- and downhill every day. We forget how it was before automobiles. Look at where favellas are built in Brazil - even today, up-canyon, long hard walk from downtown.
1
@newell mccarty: I see you're from Oklahoma, so that may explain your comment, but these buildings are market rate apartments, and while $3,600 per month may sound like a lot for someone from Oklahoma, these are fairly average rents in New York City, and no one living here is close to the 1%, in New York City or the U.S. at large.
10
Half of you didn't read the entire article. 600 Market Rate apartments and 160 Affordable Housing units. Hardly "luxurious preparations" for the "uber rich".
You don't know from uber rich.
You don't know from uber rich.
16
The rich will retire to their ranches in Montana.
2
rats are known for seeking the high ground
12
an ancient comedy sketch by a reviled comedian today. no name required. Moses how long can you tread water?
4
oops Noah how long can you tread water?
6
Well, these luxurious preparations for those who can afford it is all fine and dandy. Now, how about the rest of us living on the planet?
48
Don't worry Road. Our President says that we don't need to be concerned about climate change and the attendant raising water. It's not gonna happen. Believe me.
5
Why blame the people who can afford it. What about you? You are free to move away from flood zones.
3
That's a great approach. Spend hundreds of millions of dollars so the uber rich can avoid the inconvenience of inevitable rising of water in New York. Thank you for giving these builders massive tax breaks, instead of spending OUR tax dollars to do actual meaningful city-wide infrastructure abatements that would help all of us. Oh, those few subsidized apartments. Yeah, that's a boon to all New Yorkers. How crass that the ultra wealthy, who have spread lies about climate change, will continue to profit from it. Meanwhile, tens of thousands of people die from starvation annually because of aridification of one-time food producing lands. But who cares, we have a gym in this tower! It's just a little nauseating.
78
These are hardly apartments for the uber rich. First they are rentals. Second while obviously expensive they are certainly not near the crazy rental prices we read about regularly. We should applaud the builders for constructing something that will last at least longer than other buildings without these precautions.
19
It's got to start somewhere. Look how hard it is to convince conservative politicians, and Trump, that we might face rising sea levels. Because those buildings that survive the floods will become the example to follow.
If coastal cities want to survive, they will have to make changes. Changes are expensive. Your job is to convince your representatives that climate change is happening.
If coastal cities want to survive, they will have to make changes. Changes are expensive. Your job is to convince your representatives that climate change is happening.
3
"How crass that the ultra wealthy, who have spread lies about climate change, will continue to profit from it. Meanwhile, tens of thousands of people die .."
The ultra-wealthy have lived well while tens of thousands have died annually for the past - oh - 6,000 years or so, so I wouldn't put too much hope in outrage changing anything right now. What we have, individually, over Egyptian or Roman peasants is a great deal more knowledge of what's coming our way. So leave the ultra-wealthy in their flooded, one-socket homes and figure out how to go live somewhere else that's safe and dry. That, historically, is the answer. Outrage is not. It makes us feel good, but when the tide is coming in, it won't save any of us. Leave the ultra-wealthy to stomp in futile fury against the waves, as if their money alone can save them (which it won't). When the fridge goes off after a week and there's no more chilled wine, they'll try to sue someone. hahaha.
J
The ultra-wealthy have lived well while tens of thousands have died annually for the past - oh - 6,000 years or so, so I wouldn't put too much hope in outrage changing anything right now. What we have, individually, over Egyptian or Roman peasants is a great deal more knowledge of what's coming our way. So leave the ultra-wealthy in their flooded, one-socket homes and figure out how to go live somewhere else that's safe and dry. That, historically, is the answer. Outrage is not. It makes us feel good, but when the tide is coming in, it won't save any of us. Leave the ultra-wealthy to stomp in futile fury against the waves, as if their money alone can save them (which it won't). When the fridge goes off after a week and there's no more chilled wine, they'll try to sue someone. hahaha.
J
4
I commend the owners and architects for incorporating resilience into the building design. Of course, nothing is foolproof. Gas delivery for the backup generators depends on the gas pipeline infrastructure. Given that flooding can cause large sinkholes that can break the gas pipes, the backup power is still at risk.
38
Building codes need to be revised for higher minimum standards for energy efficiency. New construction in high value flood prone areas should be built with worse case scenario standards for water and wind.
6
what a great selling point for the rich!
the rest of us had better improve our swimming.
the rest of us had better improve our swimming.
67
im buying fins and a snorkel tomorrow
If this is not a Trump solution---forget about the cause and instead seek out a simple answer.
4
It is great that they already have so many applications. Finally people are realizing the dangers of rising water levels.
12
I cannot discount the wisdom of trying to guard against future flooding. Even if it simply is an attempt to forestall a future where sea levels are radically higher than they are now. And being out of power, etc., for a couple of weeks is not the same thing as being inundated for months, and the concomitant damage to the region as would occur from such as that. All of this are about as futile as building a sand-castle on a beach area at low tide that gets washed out at high tide. Our only recourse? Move. I only hope it all doesn't come down to this implacable logic.
John~
American Net'Zen
John~
American Net'Zen
12