"He lied to their faces about how many illegals voted-clearly untrue-yet he did it."
What a bunch of punks for not calling him on it.
Send money to the people who challenge Nancy and Chuck. They are not going to grow a spine, those that slither never do.
What a bunch of punks for not calling him on it.
Send money to the people who challenge Nancy and Chuck. They are not going to grow a spine, those that slither never do.
6
I couldn't agree more. I too was shocked that Schumer and Pelosi just sat there smiling like they weren't listening to blatant misinformation.
It is long past time to get rid of passive and complacent Democrats who are content to ride along in the back seat as long as they keep their jobs. We have to primary them out of the party like the Republicans do. Rally behind actual leftist candidates with a strong conscience. Forget those who have abandoned us.
It is long past time to get rid of passive and complacent Democrats who are content to ride along in the back seat as long as they keep their jobs. We have to primary them out of the party like the Republicans do. Rally behind actual leftist candidates with a strong conscience. Forget those who have abandoned us.
Sorry Arthur, but there is no reason to celebrate the peaceful transfer of power when the power has transferred to a man whom one can readily imagine arresting uncooperative journalists, defunding federal agencies that don't put out the numbers he wants, threatening companies with ruin by taxation if they don't create some jobs and give him the credit, and even cancelling the next election if things aren't looking good for him. Tyrants the world over win elections "fair and square" all the time, but their people have nothing to celebrate. I don't think we do either.
14
I'm not going to read all the comments, my habit is to start with the Readers' Picks. Biased towards earlier commenters and those with preferred status whose remarks don't have to wait hours for approval. If the topic is worthy I'll read all the NYT Picks, although that cedes even more bias to the moderators, whose algorithms to determine what is worthy of the Times logo frequently has me scratching my head.
All I can ask after reading the comments- what is Arthur C. (for conservative with a capital C) Brooks doing getting paid by the NYT? He brings nothing to the table. Absolutely zilch. At least sometimes the relevant pundits on the right side of the spectrum will make one think and have some poignant things to say. Sometimes when they think things have gone too far they'll call it out, like George F. Will publically lambasting Trump. Art Brooks is nothing of the sort, he's just an unapologetic shill with nothing substantial to add to the conversation.
If he were in my house incessantly burping out his meaningless platitudes I'd politely ask him to leave. And then wash the glass he drank out of at least twice, if not actually tossing it in the trash. Maybe even call the CDC in to decontaminate the place just in case a virus lingers that causes encephalitis.
All I can ask after reading the comments- what is Arthur C. (for conservative with a capital C) Brooks doing getting paid by the NYT? He brings nothing to the table. Absolutely zilch. At least sometimes the relevant pundits on the right side of the spectrum will make one think and have some poignant things to say. Sometimes when they think things have gone too far they'll call it out, like George F. Will publically lambasting Trump. Art Brooks is nothing of the sort, he's just an unapologetic shill with nothing substantial to add to the conversation.
If he were in my house incessantly burping out his meaningless platitudes I'd politely ask him to leave. And then wash the glass he drank out of at least twice, if not actually tossing it in the trash. Maybe even call the CDC in to decontaminate the place just in case a virus lingers that causes encephalitis.
19
"People may like or dislike this, but how can anyone find it shocking? It reminds me of when my kids were little and were shocked every single night when I instructed them to brush their teeth." Almost no one on the left has been shocked by Trump, just outraged like they have been since he started campaigning with hate and bigotry. Nothing has changed.
"At a moment when we should be celebrating the peaceful transfer of power, there’s almost no effort to unite on either side. We are almost completely locked down as a nation, ideologically. This bodes ill." This is a joke, right? There was always zero chance the nation as a whole would get behind this guy. There is a large percentage of this country that will never never accept the views, antics, tactics and deception that this man represents and attempts to foist on this country.
"But around Washington, both events felt more menacing and dystopian than joyful or patriotic." One felt menacing and dystopian for sure, that was Friday, the events on Saturday couldn't have been more joyful and uplifting to many in this country who have felt shame and disappointment at what we see as one of the greatest missteps in American political history. Saturday was a welcome return to the best of our values.
These are terrible times for America, it's unfortunate that many on the right like Mr. Brooks are willing to normalize them for the sake of trying to advance their party. Luckily many are passionate in their opposition.
"At a moment when we should be celebrating the peaceful transfer of power, there’s almost no effort to unite on either side. We are almost completely locked down as a nation, ideologically. This bodes ill." This is a joke, right? There was always zero chance the nation as a whole would get behind this guy. There is a large percentage of this country that will never never accept the views, antics, tactics and deception that this man represents and attempts to foist on this country.
"But around Washington, both events felt more menacing and dystopian than joyful or patriotic." One felt menacing and dystopian for sure, that was Friday, the events on Saturday couldn't have been more joyful and uplifting to many in this country who have felt shame and disappointment at what we see as one of the greatest missteps in American political history. Saturday was a welcome return to the best of our values.
These are terrible times for America, it's unfortunate that many on the right like Mr. Brooks are willing to normalize them for the sake of trying to advance their party. Luckily many are passionate in their opposition.
19
it’s not a requirement in the US Constitution that you have to release your tax return in order to be eligible to run for president of United States of America. The only requirement is; that you have to be born in America!
Actually they should avoid and stop this tradition of releasing tax returns otherwise only either poor or stupid people would be willing to run months or grueling pressure and represent us in any public offices!
Actually they should avoid and stop this tradition of releasing tax returns otherwise only either poor or stupid people would be willing to run months or grueling pressure and represent us in any public offices!
Let's just hand our country over to whoever is the richest and therefore in the eyes of the GOP the smartest, if that's your benchmark for good governance.
Mr. Gates, come on down!
Mr. Gates, come on down!
I've heard that conservatives always follow the one in authority, get in line, whether they like them or not.
This quality is completely foreign to me, and is really pretty revolting. It is on display in this article in the person of David Brooks.
This quality is completely foreign to me, and is really pretty revolting. It is on display in this article in the person of David Brooks.
11
Per Mr. Brooks, "People who ... mistrust the president found the speech to be radical and scary."
That should be every American. Trump has done nothing to earn our trust and everything to lose it. Yet there are millions who do, in fact, trust him with the presidency. I am not so concerned about Trump, frankly, than I am about those millions.
That should be every American. Trump has done nothing to earn our trust and everything to lose it. Yet there are millions who do, in fact, trust him with the presidency. I am not so concerned about Trump, frankly, than I am about those millions.
14
Read: "If you don't fall in line behind me, you are not patriotic."
I agree that whether a country should focus on helping other countries or herself first is an argument worth having. But with regards to what the president said about "the people" inside of our country and especially about patriotism: I think trying to read his inauguration speech literally (as attempted in parts of this column) is dangerous. Instead the speech needs to be analysed with the historical wisdom of having seen other demagogues before in this world, their techniques, their modus operandi, and the worldwide damage to democracy they can do. After all, it is not like the world, historians, and political scientists don't have plenty of precedents to go by. Which country do Drumpf's paternal grandparents come from again? - not Sweden!
Especially when interpreting the inauguration speech in light of White House press briefings since, to me the president's real message is this: If you don't fall in line behind me, you are not patriotic. If you criticise me, you are not patriotic. If you disagree with me, you are not part of us. Not part of "the people" that he says he wants to help.
The opposite is true. Therefore: Thank you, New York Times, and thank you all journalists in the world for continuing to scrutinize (constructively but rigorously) this administration - just as any administration should be scrutinized.
For that is patriotism.
I agree that whether a country should focus on helping other countries or herself first is an argument worth having. But with regards to what the president said about "the people" inside of our country and especially about patriotism: I think trying to read his inauguration speech literally (as attempted in parts of this column) is dangerous. Instead the speech needs to be analysed with the historical wisdom of having seen other demagogues before in this world, their techniques, their modus operandi, and the worldwide damage to democracy they can do. After all, it is not like the world, historians, and political scientists don't have plenty of precedents to go by. Which country do Drumpf's paternal grandparents come from again? - not Sweden!
Especially when interpreting the inauguration speech in light of White House press briefings since, to me the president's real message is this: If you don't fall in line behind me, you are not patriotic. If you criticise me, you are not patriotic. If you disagree with me, you are not part of us. Not part of "the people" that he says he wants to help.
The opposite is true. Therefore: Thank you, New York Times, and thank you all journalists in the world for continuing to scrutinize (constructively but rigorously) this administration - just as any administration should be scrutinized.
For that is patriotism.
9
This "dialog" is a whole lot of nothing. The word "lie" does not appear in it once. And that's the take-away from President Trump's first three days: we have elected a bold-faced liar.
13
Brooks II is a very poor imitation of Brooks I. I used to look forward to the exchange between Collins and Brooks I. It often sparkled with humor mixed With erudition and insights. With Brooks II, this dialog takes places at a 90 degree angle. It shows no cross insights and presents no erudition except that which comes from Collins. Brooks II is humorless. In that respect he is much like Trump but without the invective. Bring back Brooks I!
6
Hey Arthur I would be cool with "give the dude a chance" if the Republicans had not declared on day one they wanted to make the first black president a failed president and had not blocked a great and moderate Supreme Court nominee.
The die was cast with the Republican Congressional leadership and is now being polished by a teenager who wants to rank all women 1-10.
The die was cast with the Republican Congressional leadership and is now being polished by a teenager who wants to rank all women 1-10.
16
you two, are practicing literary criticism while Rome burns. Get a clue!
7
"The guy sitting behind me really messed up the country over the past eight years." Right out of the box, trump was wrong, wrong, wrong.
"Elites have been ripping off ordinary Americans and will get their comeuppance." And who will deliver this comeuppance? All the wealthy billionaires in his cabinet who not only want to keep every last $ but acquire more? Corporations currently paying an EFFECTIVE tax rate of 0 to 20 percent that are demanding a reduction in tax rates? At which point, after deductions, most of them won't pay any taxes at all. We will certainly be competitive globally! Except in education, the environment, our infrastructure, quality of life.
"I’m going to protect American jobs by any means necessary." I'm so grateful no one felt that way about carriage, buggy and wagon makers in 1900 or we would be drowning in horse excrement today.
At some point all the excrement will hit the fan. I doubt trump supporters or republicans will be able to see their role in taking a great country and sending it down the tubes.
"Elites have been ripping off ordinary Americans and will get their comeuppance." And who will deliver this comeuppance? All the wealthy billionaires in his cabinet who not only want to keep every last $ but acquire more? Corporations currently paying an EFFECTIVE tax rate of 0 to 20 percent that are demanding a reduction in tax rates? At which point, after deductions, most of them won't pay any taxes at all. We will certainly be competitive globally! Except in education, the environment, our infrastructure, quality of life.
"I’m going to protect American jobs by any means necessary." I'm so grateful no one felt that way about carriage, buggy and wagon makers in 1900 or we would be drowning in horse excrement today.
At some point all the excrement will hit the fan. I doubt trump supporters or republicans will be able to see their role in taking a great country and sending it down the tubes.
8
Gail do you wake up in a brand new world every day. Trump is doing and saying exactly what he said he would do during the election.
1
Sad to have to read Gail Collins talking to this guy who is tone deaf and unfeeling all the time. Speak for yourself, Gail, you have more to say, and now that the women are united, we would appreciate more women on the Opinion page speaking about concerns of the 51%
8
Gail Collins let Brooks dominate the conversation. Not good, since what he said wasn't worth a whole lot. Jump in there, Gail, don't let the other guy do so much of the talking!
8
Ah, Mr. Brooks, your delicate sensibilities. Dear me, how will you ever survive with this man who is the cause of all of these nasty signs? The man who did grab (cover your virgin eyes now) a woman's p*ssy, a man who has, indeed, a very dystopian view of the United States, and thinks that we are his vassals that he can ignore at will. A man whose inaugural address was written by a white supremacist, and whose understanding of how things work gets lost in the garbage of his mind. So, Mr. Brooks, may I suggest you try real hard to put aside your Victorian case of the vapors and get out and talk to all of us malcontents, who by the way voted for the winner of the popular vote, and learn what is going in the real world. And don't forget your smelling salts because your about to find out what Nora really did when she left Ibsen's Doll House.
8
"Gail: Well, it’s not like the concept of patriotism is a new theme for these events."
Evidently it is to Gail.
Evidently it is to Gail.
Can you please stop giving Arthur Brooks a platform to spread his apologist message? If the best thing you can say about Trump's inauguration is that we should be celebrating the peaceful transition of power, it's the most backhanded of compliment of all.
8
History is always repeating itself when we least expect it. We had Napoleon who loved himself and made people praise him. In the past, leaders would give high positions to their family and close friends. Trump gave his assets to his children so he could still have control of it but still make it seem legal. His Senate nominees are his close friends and have no or little experience or knowledge of their divisions.Who would believe in 8 years ago or when our fore fathers built this country, we would have Trump as president. I guess the dead presidents were rolling in their graves as Trump was inaugurated as president. Trump is DOES NOT REPRESENT AMERICA. America was build on liberty, freedom, and equality for all. As president, he should not be on twitter and twitting about how SNL and the media is making fun of him. I thought I was reading a 7 year old script who was bullied. He should be worried how the country is divided, women are not happy about his decisions, but most of all put the American people first and leave his superego at the door. But at the end, he will be president for four years and we as citizens cannot change it. But I recommend, do not give up. Be more active in your local and state courts, sign petitions, protest peacefully, talk to your local and state politicans, take details of Trump's illegal actions that go against the Bill of rights and Constitution, and believe America will be a symbol of democracy. Hold on tight for the four years !
3
I've tried to come here an open mind recognizing that I really like Gail and do share her political views. But I give up - I really don't like Arthur Brooks, he's a nasty man. Hundreds of thousands of women march peacefully across the country and he focuses on the few intemperate remarks by Madonna. No one thinks she will 'blow up the White House'. In view of the awful things that were said and shouted and scribbled on signs at Trump ralleys, this is hardly worth a mention. Of course Arthur also zeroes in to the few 'nice' words Trump managed on Friday and Saturday. Trump is a mess, he's the President of the USA and is still whining about crowd size. He doesn't 'get' the awesomeness of taking the same oath of office as George Washington and Abraham Lincoln.
I'm done with Arthur Brooks.
I'm done with Arthur Brooks.
27
Dear Gail, I find your writing witty, entertaining and often informative. You are a smart successful woman. Why do you waste your time engaging with this man who toes the party line even in the face of egregious behavior. Does he think that opening the pipelines is a good idea? Does he think that trickle-down economics really works. Does he have children? How can I look my children in the face and say, "Don't worry. Sooner or later we'll stop burning fossil fuels and then we can think about the environment." I am tired of hearing Arthur Brooks give Trump and his cronies a pass. I won't be reading this column again. And I will recommend to all of my friends that they stop reading it as well. Perhaps if there is no readership for it, no clicks, the Times will stop acting like Mr. Brooks is an observer with merit.
16
Agree. Replace this man with a smart and self reflective conservative.
5
Madonna did indeed advance the possibility of blowing up the White House. How is this any worse than actually doing it from the inside?
www.endthemadnessnow.org
www.endthemadnessnow.org
10
Mr Brooks, myopia does not make for an interesting conversation, nor does amorality. If it weren't so infuriating, it would be boring, no thanks.
4
In the past eight years of Obama, Tea Party and the Republican were staging all kinds of heated insults and attacks on him and his administration. If the liberals and Democrats are now doing the same to Trump and his administration, what makes that so wrong? Please explain to me clearly.
7
Mr. Brooks has apparently become a cowering Trump apologist, now blaming the divisiveness in the country on begrudging liberals who just won't come to the table after a year and a half of hate speech from our now president who wasted much of his transition period on a self-congratulatory victory tour, then spat a defiant inaugural speech in the style of a 3rd world dictator. For a moment during the campaign I was tricked into believing Brooks had a shred of integrity and it's now clear that I was mistaken. Please, Ms. Collins, sharpen your challenges to Mr. Brooks' indefensible defenses of authoritarianism, or cede the debate to Charles Blow.
5
President Trump's message and campaigning won enough votes in the right states to be elected. Period. Now he should focus on creating jobs and working with Schumer and the Democrats as well as the Republicans to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure.
Done properly appeals to nationalism and patriotism may be enough to overcome corrosive scorched earth partisanship. Maybe Trump can pull it off.
Done properly appeals to nationalism and patriotism may be enough to overcome corrosive scorched earth partisanship. Maybe Trump can pull it off.
No mention of Trump's "American carnage" line by Mr. Brooks, perhaps the scariest moment of all, at least for me. I'm sorry, but this is not an accurate description of the country, and certainly not a call to our shared values, to our patriotism, that Mr. Brooks so optimistically found in the speech. As for Mr. Brooks' criticism of those who were surprised (and worried), saying that really, this is Trump, what did you expect? Well, in my over half century of political sentience, I have grown used to candidates, especially after bruising campaigns, turn into presidents who at least called on all now to unify, using words that sought to heal, not widen, divisions. So, yes, I reserve my right to be surprised and appalled that Trump did nothing of the sort. This is a president who lost the popular vote, who comes into office with the lowest approval ratings in history, and then proceeds to deliver an inaugural speech that basically gives the middle finger to all who oppose him. And the next day, Mr. Brooks, called your colleagues at the New York Times "some of the most dishonest human beings on Earth." I have never heard this from someone who leads out nation. I make no apologies for worrying. And, by the way, there were no broken windows or arrests on Saturday -- only one out-of-place speech that few, other than you, even noticed.
4
Brooks' feigned surprise at people's quite understandable surprise and alarm fails to convince. "Never heard an inaugural address where I liked every rhetorical turn?" Please. That's like saying the herbs were not quite fresh on the bowl of slop you just had dumped over your head. But as yours is planted firmly in the sand, no worry.
2
What do I take from the last week.
1. That even after winning the office (if not the election) Trump continues to play the Big Lie card. Which has been shown to be frighteningly effective in the internet age, with no indication that it's going to lose its' potency any time soon.
2. That reason, logic and fact have now become utterly irrelevant to a good chunk of the electorate, and that the same anti-intellectual agenda is not only embraced, but positively celebrated by the new administration. An administration where made-up "alternate facts" have a greater role in policy making that the old-fashioned real world variety.
So the question I'd put to Mr. Brooks and others who urge calm is how, under those circumstances, it is going to be possible for a functioning democracy to survive. Or why any of us should lift a finger to defend or perpetuate a system which is so flawed as to put a Donald Trump into office. Because for a great many of us, the answers are "it can't, and I won't."
Please put my mind at ease. Tell me why I am wrong.
1. That even after winning the office (if not the election) Trump continues to play the Big Lie card. Which has been shown to be frighteningly effective in the internet age, with no indication that it's going to lose its' potency any time soon.
2. That reason, logic and fact have now become utterly irrelevant to a good chunk of the electorate, and that the same anti-intellectual agenda is not only embraced, but positively celebrated by the new administration. An administration where made-up "alternate facts" have a greater role in policy making that the old-fashioned real world variety.
So the question I'd put to Mr. Brooks and others who urge calm is how, under those circumstances, it is going to be possible for a functioning democracy to survive. Or why any of us should lift a finger to defend or perpetuate a system which is so flawed as to put a Donald Trump into office. Because for a great many of us, the answers are "it can't, and I won't."
Please put my mind at ease. Tell me why I am wrong.
4
Arthur Brooks makes it seem that Trump is only doing what he promised to do, and that Democrats are just sore losers who don't like his policies. But in fact Trump is on record as lying brazenly and repeatedly, and of espousing bigoted, misogynistic, racist views that are informing his policies. When Arthur Brooks is endorsing Trump's actions then for me he is also implicitly supporting these other outlooks on the world, and asking us to live in a universe in which 'alternative facts' are somehow remotely acceptable.
4
"..My biggest worry is not wealthy cabinet secretaries, but the mutual contempt that is still dominating our discourse. At a moment when we should be celebrating the peaceful transfer of power, there’s almost no effort to unite on either side. We are almost completely locked down as a nation, ideologically. This bodes ill..."
The "mutual contempt" didn't start out that way. At no time during his two campaigns or while in office did the former POTUS use disparaging or divisive language or take actions (via policies and otherwise) to purposely hurt others. He made efforts to reach "across the aisle," but most often he was rebuffed. Just because. This new potus has said -- and done -- plenty of things to cause division before, during, and since being elected. How can one unite around a potus who basically lies e.g. alternative news? And this just 4 days into his presidency. That's a tall order. Words matter. Actions matter more. Still waiting but won't hold out.
The "mutual contempt" didn't start out that way. At no time during his two campaigns or while in office did the former POTUS use disparaging or divisive language or take actions (via policies and otherwise) to purposely hurt others. He made efforts to reach "across the aisle," but most often he was rebuffed. Just because. This new potus has said -- and done -- plenty of things to cause division before, during, and since being elected. How can one unite around a potus who basically lies e.g. alternative news? And this just 4 days into his presidency. That's a tall order. Words matter. Actions matter more. Still waiting but won't hold out.
3
Let's start a countdown clock to when Trump moves from mystery to irrelevance. How long until the GOP leaders in the House and Senate start calculating that their own beliefs and their political futures don't rest with the great wizard behind the curtain and stop taking his calls?
3
It might be more interesting if they played gin rummy instead.
1
this was perhaps the worst "conversation" these two folks have had which i have read. mr brooks could not bring himself to be honest about the man who is president and how that man almost singlehandedly has deepened the significant divide in our country. a divide resulting from the GOP not supporting and uniting with mr obama but promising that he would only be a one term president. that's the type of behavior the GOP will be getting for a long time. and ms collins who usually has some good comebacks seemed strangely quiet when support for the opposition was discussed. sad.
4
If I hear the press use the words "elites" or "regulations" again without defining those terms or providing examples, I'm going to tear my hair out. Stop letting Trump hide behind them.
3
I've several issue with points raised:
1) Patriotism First: No, no and no. I consider myself "patriotic", but people and what's in the common good for all takes priority over a block of dirt assigned latitude and longitude.
2) Trump's Consistency: Brooks begins his own "pivot", presenting Trump as a man consistent and entirely true to form. It's disingenuous to ignore that his only consistency is in being inconstant. We've been subjected to more than a year of perpetual action/claim and subsequent denial.
3) CIA Visit: It's offered out of context. No mention was made of his repeated vilification of that agency. His professed appreciation belies comments mere weeks prior.
1) Patriotism First: No, no and no. I consider myself "patriotic", but people and what's in the common good for all takes priority over a block of dirt assigned latitude and longitude.
2) Trump's Consistency: Brooks begins his own "pivot", presenting Trump as a man consistent and entirely true to form. It's disingenuous to ignore that his only consistency is in being inconstant. We've been subjected to more than a year of perpetual action/claim and subsequent denial.
3) CIA Visit: It's offered out of context. No mention was made of his repeated vilification of that agency. His professed appreciation belies comments mere weeks prior.
6
There is a very good reason Europeans are uncomfortable, if not alarmed, at expressions of nationalism and hyper-patriotism. The US fought in both world wars, but they didn't happen on US soil. Also no matter what your opinion of globalization, no country can exist in a vacuum (well, North Korea is still trying). We all depend on the same planet to sustain us; and our lives are all connected whether we like to acknowledge that fact or not.
3
Trump is successfully embarking on a crusade to destroy the government from within and destroy a free press. I hope and pray our institutions will allow us to survive this. Unify the country? Donald Trump has no plan to do that. More likely to avenge his losses in other states. The only positive note I can think of is that the March was allowed to happen unimpeded. Not sure that will happen after he's been in power.
4
I am confused. If Pres. Trump is a populist, wouldn't he want his followers to have lower mortgage payments? One of his first executive orders was to rescind an Obama Administration reduction in mortgage insurance amounting to about $500 a year. Don't the hard put-upon working class homeowners in Trump America hold mortgages that are fedrally insured?
WASHINGTON — The Trump administration, hours after taking office on Friday, suspended a plan to cut mortgage insurance premiums on federally insured home loans that the U.S. government had estimated would save eligible homeowners an average of $500 a year. (NY Times report).
WASHINGTON — The Trump administration, hours after taking office on Friday, suspended a plan to cut mortgage insurance premiums on federally insured home loans that the U.S. government had estimated would save eligible homeowners an average of $500 a year. (NY Times report).
3
"Arthur: Conservatives generally place a high premium on business success and executive-level management experience, where prior success usually tracks with hefty salaries."
The size of one's paycheck is but one way to measure success. But there are many, many ways to be successful and to do right for the country that cannot be measured in dollars. This is a fundamental difference between conservatives and liberals.
The size of one's paycheck is but one way to measure success. But there are many, many ways to be successful and to do right for the country that cannot be measured in dollars. This is a fundamental difference between conservatives and liberals.
5
Brooks' tone reminds me of the dead Buckley - all that ennui and casual and total dismissal of anything not agreed with - but without the humor or humanity or intellect. Poor Gail Collins who is so bright and funny flying solo is reduced to pleading with Brooks to drop the cigar and snifter and actually join the conversation. Spare us. Please.
5
Arthur Brooks's take on the D.C. Women's March couldn't have been more wrong. The March was peaceful, uplifting and unified. Yes, there were a few vulgarities, but that wasn't the tone or tenor of the event.
16
"When you open your heart to patriotism, there is no room for prejudice."
That was an attempt to set patriotism against identity politics.
That was an attempt to set patriotism against identity politics.
5
I really, really, really don't get why women reflecting the very words used about them and to them is considered vulgar and wrong but not offensive enough when uttered by a man who aimed (and achieved) to the highest office of the land.
He can be as crass as he wants to be and we have to overlook it but if we merely throw his words back at him that's wrong? It is precisely this weird standard which was the point of the march. The complete contempt for women that this idea expresses.
And fyi, Madonna was not advocating blowing up the white house. She was advocating not doing it. She was sharing her feelings, the fantasies her feelings engendered and then specifically telling us those were NOT what either she or us should do. She was telling us that reason must overcome passions.
He can be as crass as he wants to be and we have to overlook it but if we merely throw his words back at him that's wrong? It is precisely this weird standard which was the point of the march. The complete contempt for women that this idea expresses.
And fyi, Madonna was not advocating blowing up the white house. She was advocating not doing it. She was sharing her feelings, the fantasies her feelings engendered and then specifically telling us those were NOT what either she or us should do. She was telling us that reason must overcome passions.
23
This woman that calls herself Madonna is the kind of celebrity trash that turns the public against these so called feminist/Women's "Rights" marches/movements. She has had several abortions, slept with innumerable men and is bi-sexual according to her own admissions. Is she supposed to be some sort of role model/example? If she is we are in much worse shape than most of us believe. Also that so called actress Scarlett Johanssen admitting publicly she had a convenience abortion before hundreds of thousands of marchers on tv? Really? What is America coming to? It seems we are heading down the paths of Babylon and Sodom and Gomorrah more every day. God help us.
1
@NSH,
"if we merely throw his words back at him that's wrong?"
Did Trump throw his words at you? He was telling it to only one man, in private. People who repeating a private talk, loudly and proudly screaming it in the streets (with children looking and listening, by the way) are lacking not only in decency but also in honesty.
"if we merely throw his words back at him that's wrong?"
Did Trump throw his words at you? He was telling it to only one man, in private. People who repeating a private talk, loudly and proudly screaming it in the streets (with children looking and listening, by the way) are lacking not only in decency but also in honesty.
2
Sounds like it's safe space time, Diogenes.
1
At this comment moment Spicer is weaving and dodging journalists' questions concerning Trump's contention that 3-5 million illegal votes were cast for Hillary. Attention Journalists: Please keep pounding the W.H. with questions concerning this HUGE story. Tell the W.H. this is Big League voter fraud and we need to get to the bottom of it. (If necessary, on the our behalf feign outrage about these 3-5 million illegal votes(wink).
10
Does it seem to anyone else like Trump won't let this go, not only because it is an embarrassment for him, but also as a staging ground for new voter suppression laws? After the Women's March on Washington (et. al) he can't be feeling very confident about 2018/2020 elections. DJT has a long history of (effectively) telling a lie so often that it has the same neurological resonance as the truth. This needs to be opposed seriously, not just mocked.
3
Wow, Arthur, were you as much of an apologist for your children's bad behavior as you are of Trump's?
15
I see parents like him all the time in conferences. It's never their fault, nor the child's. It's the teachers fault.
4
One word - YUCK
5
Gail Collins is always brilliant and funny...except when paired with this other guy whose tedious, vapid comments she struggles to prop up. Gail, why bother?
14
Another man with a soft head. I will not compromise with Trump. You can't trust anything, (and I mean ANYTHING) that comes out of that con man's mouth.
Mr. Brooks would have us lay down to the tyrant. He's a useless as facts are to Trump...
Mr. Brooks would have us lay down to the tyrant. He's a useless as facts are to Trump...
7
I thought that Trump criticized Obama for his Executive Orders. But now it looks like Trump will have the most tremendous set of Executive Orders, more than anyone else in history ever. The most luxurious orders ever written. Sad.
10
"Elites have been ripping off ordinary Americans and will get their comeuppance."
Nice thought - but I haven't heard much about any effort to reverse the Citizens United decision or to champion campaign finance reform coming from Mr. Trump. Considering that many of our politicians are virtually owned by the big money elite, that would seem like a good place to start.
Nice thought - but I haven't heard much about any effort to reverse the Citizens United decision or to champion campaign finance reform coming from Mr. Trump. Considering that many of our politicians are virtually owned by the big money elite, that would seem like a good place to start.
9
Trump can spew all the patriotic drivel he likes, but if the past does in fact inform the future, we should know all too well that what trump blathers one minute has little to do with what he prattles on about the next. Who knows what opening "your heart to patriotism" means in trump-speak? It could mean making secretive deals with foreign powers that would ultimately benefit his private-sector interests, or it could mean launching nuclear weaponry because some foreign dignitary slighted him.
If any doubt remains about the unreliability of the trump word, then look no further than Kellyanne Conway, who said it best: "Ignore what Trump actually says and ‘look at what’s in his heart.’" That is, if you can find it.
If any doubt remains about the unreliability of the trump word, then look no further than Kellyanne Conway, who said it best: "Ignore what Trump actually says and ‘look at what’s in his heart.’" That is, if you can find it.
7
Well, Mr. Brooks, as a writer you should know talk is cheap but words do have meaning. Mr. Trump can not be taken at his word and that perhaps is the only saving grace we can look forward to. And that's not too great a future.
3
Brooks, you're already in a "drought of discussion" here. Harp on Madonna, as if Trump hasn't made threats of bodily harm against Hillary Clinton when discussing how the Second Amendmenters could go after her. Your "nothing to see here" attitude: just another peaceful transition of power, just another Inaugural address, all cabinet members will be approved cuz they're all fine, is a slap in the face. In this column, you're figuratively yawning and rolling your eyes in boredom. I'm bored with you too.
9
One person is talking about reality, other about a personal mood.
2
"At a moment when we should be celebrating the peaceful transfer of power, there’s almost no effort to unite on either side." Seriously? After eight years of dedicated effort to oppose everything President Obama tried to do, no matter whether it was based on Republican ideas, no matter whether he tried to consult and compromise? So the tactic here is to conduct a scorched-earth resistance, and then when the electorate is so frustrated with all politicians that they vote in a bomb-thrower, say now is the time to unite?
7
Arthur Brooks, Kellyanne Conway has a job for you! I do think you are in some alternative reality here. As to the peaceful transfer of power, there is a saying - the top sets the tone. Trump's repeated singularly nasty insults (to other Republicans during the campaign, as well as everyone else), disgustingly unfounded accusations (birther nonsense), advocacy of personal violence and abhorrent treatment of women set a terrible tone. He is the most vile person to be elected, I have no sympathy for his alleged hurt feelings and no patience for any unfounded pretense of tolerance. Table your pleas for unity and find a better road.
7
"We want what is real! We want what is real! Do not deceive us!" Hidatsa Indian song of the Bald Eagle.
Arthur: The hoped for "pivot" has nothing to do with liberal/conservative, Republican/Democrat, business vs government expertise, or indeed policy at all. It's the hope that Trump will escape his hall of funhouse mirrors and become reality-based. No space here for a litany of Trumpian delusions, obsessions and outright, verifiable clinical psychosis. Add Flynn, whose conspiracy paranoia almost got people shot in a pizza parlor, and Bannon, whose Breitbart howlings make Fox indeed fair and balanced, and this is a recipe for global horror. I never thought I'd be rooting for the calm, peaceful sanity of a general named "Mad Dog." Millions around the world see this and took to the streets day one. Why can't you see it? Don't you want what is real, Arthur?
Arthur: The hoped for "pivot" has nothing to do with liberal/conservative, Republican/Democrat, business vs government expertise, or indeed policy at all. It's the hope that Trump will escape his hall of funhouse mirrors and become reality-based. No space here for a litany of Trumpian delusions, obsessions and outright, verifiable clinical psychosis. Add Flynn, whose conspiracy paranoia almost got people shot in a pizza parlor, and Bannon, whose Breitbart howlings make Fox indeed fair and balanced, and this is a recipe for global horror. I never thought I'd be rooting for the calm, peaceful sanity of a general named "Mad Dog." Millions around the world see this and took to the streets day one. Why can't you see it? Don't you want what is real, Arthur?
8
I'm filled with dread. Trump is a populist lunatic who will do more to send us into the dark ages again then any president I can remember. I fully support the "vulgar" comments made by Madonna. They aren't vulgar enough and a heck of a lot more inspiring to me then lots of the cute slogan that appeared on signs in the Women's March (s), as great and wonderful a sign of real concern as those events were. We need to act and find ways to act forcefully. Supporting the NYt by buying a subscription and donating to organizations you support and give actual time to causes will be key.
2
The only way to break this political impasse is through election reform. As long as we have a winner-take-all system and an evenly divided electorate, half the country will always feel disenfranchised and powerless. It's absurd that any candidate or party can lose the popular vote by almost 3 million but still control all branches of government. A mixed cabinet would at least force dems and reps to talk to each other and perhaps work together to solve some issues.
2
While Brooks mentions unity, he never points out that President Trump wasn't exactly Lincolnesque in his treatment of non-supporters on Inauguration Day or since with his harping on the vote or the size of the crowd. He is President. If he's really so offended at losing the popular vote or crowd size count maybe we should grant his unstated wish and have a new election where he can try to do better.
We needed at least a moment of unity as in Lincoln's second inaugural : "With Malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation's wounds."
We needed at least a moment of unity as in Lincoln's second inaugural : "With Malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation's wounds."
4
The Emperor’s new clothes are indeed quite beautiful, Mr. Brooks!
6
A bit off topic, but, Trump and his legions always seem to be angry, and, most of the time, they're yelling.
I realize that these are points of style, but, sometimes style does= substance. Were these people born angry?
Then, I remembered...Dick Cheney.
I realize that these are points of style, but, sometimes style does= substance. Were these people born angry?
Then, I remembered...Dick Cheney.
3
I would like to quote a comment from a retired physician in Torrence CA:
"As a retired physician I am completely serious when I suggest Trumps' wild and erratic comments suggest frontotemporal dementia. It is a bit complex and people make mis-attribution for some statements to demagoguery. A careful analysis shows that many of his statements are against his own interest and better fit impairment of executive function seen with frontotemporal dementia. It has been said his elocution is at a sixth grade level; and not a very bright sixth grader at that. His speaking at a sixth grade level, tweeting at a sixth grade level and emotionally responding at a sixth grade level demands explanation. Tapes of him at a younger age suggest superior language and cognitive function. In a 70 year old male, the likely diagnosis is frontotemporal dementia. If you think he is just dumbing down his communication for his base, then you would observe a shift in other circumstances-----and you don't. It is a critical question. The NYTimes should study earlier tapes with a few academic neurologists and compare. Republicans and democrats who care about the country need to unite and address this worrisome problem."
"As a retired physician I am completely serious when I suggest Trumps' wild and erratic comments suggest frontotemporal dementia. It is a bit complex and people make mis-attribution for some statements to demagoguery. A careful analysis shows that many of his statements are against his own interest and better fit impairment of executive function seen with frontotemporal dementia. It has been said his elocution is at a sixth grade level; and not a very bright sixth grader at that. His speaking at a sixth grade level, tweeting at a sixth grade level and emotionally responding at a sixth grade level demands explanation. Tapes of him at a younger age suggest superior language and cognitive function. In a 70 year old male, the likely diagnosis is frontotemporal dementia. If you think he is just dumbing down his communication for his base, then you would observe a shift in other circumstances-----and you don't. It is a critical question. The NYTimes should study earlier tapes with a few academic neurologists and compare. Republicans and democrats who care about the country need to unite and address this worrisome problem."
11
To me the scariest of many scary parts of the Inaugural Address was the requirement of "total allegiance to the United States of America." Perhaps because of my view of the nature and intent of this President, those words seem to augur authoritarianism. "Love of country" and "total allegiance" are two very different things.
7
What has become painfully obvious is that Trump's primary (if not entire) motivation is to exact revenge for his personal public humiliation at the White House Correspondents' dinner several years ago. This consists of destroying Obama's legacy as payment for making his remarks, and attacking the press for laughing at them. Everything else is secondary.
3
Wow. Brooks seems to be backing off of his prior criticism of Trump and the current approach of the GOP. Scared of being blacklisted, perhaps?
2
Falling in line. It is what Republicans do (see Rubio, Marco re: Tillerson).
2
The Puritans of the Massachussetts Bay Colony talked about a "city on the hill". That is, a high moral ground from which to criticise the old world. That might be the ur-source for Trump´s "We will shine for everyone to follow". Too bad history has shown this to be so much empty rhetoric, and more or less from the beginning!
Everyone knows that New Year´s resolutions (it is that time of year isn´t it?) should aim for the possible. How about "We will stop spreading darkness".
Everyone knows that New Year´s resolutions (it is that time of year isn´t it?) should aim for the possible. How about "We will stop spreading darkness".
2
"But around Washington, both events felt more menacing and dystopian than joyful or patriotic... But rude protesters on Friday, vulgar signs on Saturday, and smashed-up store windows all suggest that an excess of unity is not our chief problem." Seriously, dude? The march was anything but menacing or dystopian, and the "vulgar signs" -- WOW -- they were in DIRECT RESPONSE TO YOUR PRESIDENT. Most of the "vulgarity," in fact, was a single word -- the word he made famous in pop culture -- so come on, try to be at least a little aware of actual fact facts as opposed to alternative facts.
8
We are in Orwell's Airstrip One now. Ready for our daily TWO MINUTES HATE.
1
I really like and enjoy Gail; she is a good read but....
This is precisely why Trump got elected; yes, you read that right. Gail is the optimistic, enthusiastic, positive liberal, go along, get along and by the way, don't take a very strong position about anything. Her adversary here is channeling donald, taking a strong stance on nonsense and ignoring the lying and racism and deep history and respect which should be accorded to institutions such as, well, the CIA.
Gail, if you are going to discuss events with someone who takes his perch at the NYT seriously, you too should offer some serious, reasoned engagement.
This is precisely why Trump got elected; yes, you read that right. Gail is the optimistic, enthusiastic, positive liberal, go along, get along and by the way, don't take a very strong position about anything. Her adversary here is channeling donald, taking a strong stance on nonsense and ignoring the lying and racism and deep history and respect which should be accorded to institutions such as, well, the CIA.
Gail, if you are going to discuss events with someone who takes his perch at the NYT seriously, you too should offer some serious, reasoned engagement.
3
Mr. Brooks is a Republican. It doesn't matter what Trump does, how egregious his actions or how humongous his lies. Mr. brooks will eventually give Trump his wholehearted support - that what Republicans do. With the GOP it's always the party above all else (especially above the people and the nation).
5
"My biggest worry is not wealthy cabinet secretaries, but the mutual contempt that is still dominating our discourse. At a moment when we should be celebrating the peaceful transfer of power, there’s almost no effort to unite on either side. We are almost completely locked down as a nation, ideologically. This bodes ill."
Brooks is not worried about super-wealthy cabinet appointees, OK, but is he worried about so many Senators ignoring their flagrant conflicts of interest? That once was a proud political tradition, too, Mr. Brooks.
So, nothing has surprised you about the Trump days so far: does anything worry you at all, besides the excesses you saw in Saturday's events?
Brooks is not worried about super-wealthy cabinet appointees, OK, but is he worried about so many Senators ignoring their flagrant conflicts of interest? That once was a proud political tradition, too, Mr. Brooks.
So, nothing has surprised you about the Trump days so far: does anything worry you at all, besides the excesses you saw in Saturday's events?
2
I agree with the comments about this mode of 'discussion'. It's superficial and artificial despite Gail Collins' best efforts.
5
Brooks's response re Trump at the CIA was positively Kellyanne Conway-ish.
9
" We will shine for everyone to follow."
Seriously? I am from Canada, America's best friend, and believe me, they have no interest in dismantling healthcare, privatizing social security, suppressing minority votes, denying gays human rights, raising trade barriers, building a Muslim list, turning away refugees, saddling students with debt, letting anyone carry a gun wherever, handing over public infrastructure to billionaires, dictating women's control of their bodies, attacking our free press, ignoring proven science about climate change, passing on opportunities in renewable energy and abandoning our NATO allies.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" - Samuel Johnson
Seriously? I am from Canada, America's best friend, and believe me, they have no interest in dismantling healthcare, privatizing social security, suppressing minority votes, denying gays human rights, raising trade barriers, building a Muslim list, turning away refugees, saddling students with debt, letting anyone carry a gun wherever, handing over public infrastructure to billionaires, dictating women's control of their bodies, attacking our free press, ignoring proven science about climate change, passing on opportunities in renewable energy and abandoning our NATO allies.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" - Samuel Johnson
10
This periodic conversation is totally bogus. All it does is give voice to
to a hard-right ideologue who constantly gets the better of a hapless, inexperienced, Gail Collins - every time. NYT must stop this distortion,
right now.
to a hard-right ideologue who constantly gets the better of a hapless, inexperienced, Gail Collins - every time. NYT must stop this distortion,
right now.
2
Gail, please stop the conversations with Albert Brooks. These conversations are sickening. He is sickening. He is basically no different than Kellyanne Conway, trying to obscure the facts and the issues with his lies and obfuscations.
He also treats you and the readers with contempt. For one example, you suggested that instead of talking about crowd size Trump could have discussed substantive issues. Brooks responds: "Based on the signs I saw Saturday, igniting a thoughtful deep-dive on education policy was not a primary goal for most of the marchers."
This is a classic example of blowing smoke. Why didn't you respond that "yes, actually, it is a primary goal for most of the marchers"?
Better yet, stop giving that awful man a place to spread his lies.
He also treats you and the readers with contempt. For one example, you suggested that instead of talking about crowd size Trump could have discussed substantive issues. Brooks responds: "Based on the signs I saw Saturday, igniting a thoughtful deep-dive on education policy was not a primary goal for most of the marchers."
This is a classic example of blowing smoke. Why didn't you respond that "yes, actually, it is a primary goal for most of the marchers"?
Better yet, stop giving that awful man a place to spread his lies.
9
Gail, please just write a 3rd column a week , instead of wasting your time with Brooks of any names
11
I believe trump's psychology-mind set of equilibrium that allows him to be comfortable and confident of himself has continually placed him living on a razors edge during his life. Manipulating others investment and blocking his share off safely when the time comes to declare bankruptcy that he knew his planned structure of 'his' business model includes is how he made his wealth. He sued states and anyone else over long periods of time, 9 years to get his business taxes lowered in NYC projects.
The lies he and his cohorts spread are part of his need to equalize his sense of wellbeing.
He got away with this on the scale of power of money to hire lawyers and hutzpah.
Now he as has entered the high energy field of globel events. His lawyers will not have any power to appease his encounters with events he has little or no control.
His razors edge of identity and being able to influence outcomes has become increasingly unstable.
I believe we have all the human ingredients of a Classic Greek tragedy.
All the Kings men and all the Kings horsemen will collapse leaving Agamemnon to his lonely fate.
The lies he and his cohorts spread are part of his need to equalize his sense of wellbeing.
He got away with this on the scale of power of money to hire lawyers and hutzpah.
Now he as has entered the high energy field of globel events. His lawyers will not have any power to appease his encounters with events he has little or no control.
His razors edge of identity and being able to influence outcomes has become increasingly unstable.
I believe we have all the human ingredients of a Classic Greek tragedy.
All the Kings men and all the Kings horsemen will collapse leaving Agamemnon to his lonely fate.
1
Gail, you need to raise your game a bit in these conversations and politely call out Arthur's false equivalencies and attempts to pretend their is historical precedent for Trump.
8
It won't be long before Trump addresses his belief that public education "leaves our young and beautiful students deprived of all knowledge" with an executive order mandating instruction in "alternative facts."
5
I always thought, empty desk empty mind. I have never found that this line ever failed me.
Scared men hide behind an empty desk. They don't know what to put on the desk. A blotter, family portrait, a pen set? He is not dressed to work, he is at a photo op in the big mans chair, where he does not feel comfortable or belong. Does he even read?
Scared men hide behind an empty desk. They don't know what to put on the desk. A blotter, family portrait, a pen set? He is not dressed to work, he is at a photo op in the big mans chair, where he does not feel comfortable or belong. Does he even read?
3
Hard to believe that not a comment was made about Trump and KAC's threat to shut out the free press unless they report "falsehoods" (lies) as news. That was my takeaway from the first weekend.
4
I'm disappointed at The Times' resorting to the dialectical "Crossfire" approach, as though both sides have important points to make. Arthur Brooks's sour, condescending tone ("I’ll have to pass on Cabinet Bingo") brings to mind all of the media normalizers trying to pretend the their new leader isn't a serial liar and law-breaker. But his parsing of Trump's CIA address for non-sociopathic nuggets is a display of banality that takes the breath away.
12
Trump may have the title of president. But he is Not Our President. He was not chosen by a majority of the people. He was in fact greased into office by a right wing coup engineered by the FBI and assisted by the Russians. This is not just a conspiracy theory. The theft of the election is supported by analysts like Nate Silver. The success of the coup d'état was further enabled by the fact that so many Democrats could not be bothered to vote. Ergo Trump..an ignorant narcissist who is thrashing about to overturn any and all social and environmental progress made in this country in the past 60 years. We must fight back to save our democracy, if it is not already too late.
7
That final move by Comey wasn't about e-mails at all. That was just the excuse to bring Anthony Weiner's baggage into the election.
Look at how that stupid puppy dog wags his tail when Trump pats his head now.
Look at how that stupid puppy dog wags his tail when Trump pats his head now.
4
Really? You're running this again? Shining some of Gail Collins's light on that slug Arthur Brooks? Brooks, who somehow against all reason praises Trump's universally panned inaugural speech and turns to condemn the peaceful women's march for excesses of what, language? Really? Has he heard Trump talk? Please don't continue this series, it only serves to lower Collins.
15
Donald Trump is an unendurable obscenity as head of state and a disaster as head of government. The blue states need the red states like a fish needs a bicycle.
5
Arthur, I don't understand why you say that the Women's March on Saturday was "more menacing and dystopian than joyful or patriotic".
My wife and three of her friends, including one from New York, marched on Saturday and they felt that the marchers were serious about defending their rights but that they were also kind, compassionate, eager to share their concerns, and courteous.
My niece and her six friends, all from upstate New York, also marched. They reported that the people on the march were so joyful that even the police and national guard officers got caught up in the good feelings to the point that they were posing for pictures with the marches.
I don't know about the people at the inauguration but the people who marched on Saturday displayed a balance of deep concern about the future of our country and respect for the all of the other marches. I think you owe them an apology.
My wife and three of her friends, including one from New York, marched on Saturday and they felt that the marchers were serious about defending their rights but that they were also kind, compassionate, eager to share their concerns, and courteous.
My niece and her six friends, all from upstate New York, also marched. They reported that the people on the march were so joyful that even the police and national guard officers got caught up in the good feelings to the point that they were posing for pictures with the marches.
I don't know about the people at the inauguration but the people who marched on Saturday displayed a balance of deep concern about the future of our country and respect for the all of the other marches. I think you owe them an apology.
8
It has been fascinating to read about the marches in the conservative press. They focused on Madonna's white House comment and a few in your face signs.
They completely missed (or dismissed) the sheer size, peacefulness, camaraderie . . .and yes, real anxiety. I attended the Boston March and had same experience as your relatives. Nothing but positive things to say about it.
They completely missed (or dismissed) the sheer size, peacefulness, camaraderie . . .and yes, real anxiety. I attended the Boston March and had same experience as your relatives. Nothing but positive things to say about it.
4
Instead of always protesting and making fun, let's unite behind a plan to defend and extol the wonderful variety that makes our country special. If more people buy into that, more will vote for candidates to take us forward rather than backward.
"The speech was less a grand rhetorical moonshot and more a practical greatest-hits medley drawn from the campaign." Yes, exactly, Mr. Brooks, in spades. Mr. Trump has spent his first three days working against the environment, trade and jobs in government. Wasn't this the man who campaigned on job development? I worked for a state government and for a state contractor in another state. We always needed more staff for the work to be done. In one case, that meant that children were not being protected from abuse and neglect. Not replacing workers at the federal level is a good way to tank our economy since government jobs have some of the best benefits, though not great pay in many cases.
Arthur Brooks writes:
"Elites have been ripping off ordinary Americans and will get their comeuppance."
That's not what Trump said. He specifically cast blame on the political class in Washington, not on "elites." His Cabinet is full of elites who have been ripping off ordinary Americans for decades. His line of argument was a rhetorical ploy to distract attention away from the sharp rise in economic inequality that began under Reagan and instead transferring peoples' animus at politicians and the media. Since he proposed policies like tax cuts that favor the wealthy will only further exacerbate inequality, he needs to make sure his voters and other gullible souls focus their attention on easy targets.
Will Donald Trump propose the abolition of tax incentives like the ones that gave him a $900 million loss in a single year? If he pushes for a simplified, fairer, and more progressive tax code, then I'll be the first to applaud him. I don't expect that to happen. Installing as Labor Secretary a man who opposes increases in the minimum wage and protections for working people just shows the hypocrisy in Trump's words.
"Elites have been ripping off ordinary Americans and will get their comeuppance."
That's not what Trump said. He specifically cast blame on the political class in Washington, not on "elites." His Cabinet is full of elites who have been ripping off ordinary Americans for decades. His line of argument was a rhetorical ploy to distract attention away from the sharp rise in economic inequality that began under Reagan and instead transferring peoples' animus at politicians and the media. Since he proposed policies like tax cuts that favor the wealthy will only further exacerbate inequality, he needs to make sure his voters and other gullible souls focus their attention on easy targets.
Will Donald Trump propose the abolition of tax incentives like the ones that gave him a $900 million loss in a single year? If he pushes for a simplified, fairer, and more progressive tax code, then I'll be the first to applaud him. I don't expect that to happen. Installing as Labor Secretary a man who opposes increases in the minimum wage and protections for working people just shows the hypocrisy in Trump's words.
4
Since we're sharing favorite lines, here's my favorite:
"Based on the signs I saw Saturday, igniting a thoughtful deep-dive on education policy was not a primary goal for most of the marchers."
Mr. Brooks, I marched with my cousin (Wellesley and Harvard alums). We'd be only too happy to discuss education policy with you.
Boarding the flight home, a man dressed in red, white, and blue apparently noticed the crowd of women surrounding him and started muttering, "Trump. Trump. Trump." Can you imagine an Obama supporter acting that way?
"Based on the signs I saw Saturday, igniting a thoughtful deep-dive on education policy was not a primary goal for most of the marchers."
Mr. Brooks, I marched with my cousin (Wellesley and Harvard alums). We'd be only too happy to discuss education policy with you.
Boarding the flight home, a man dressed in red, white, and blue apparently noticed the crowd of women surrounding him and started muttering, "Trump. Trump. Trump." Can you imagine an Obama supporter acting that way?
5
“At the bedrock of our politics will be a total allegiance to the United States of America",...I can see this coming...Protesters will be labeled unpatriotic....seeds of fascism...
5
I wish the other Mr. Brooks, David, would rejoin this conversation. He is a real journalist, like Gail. In contrast, Arthur Brooks is paid by the American Enterprise Institute to promote its right-wing political agenda. The polite word for this is "lobbyist."
4
I didn't realize Brooks was such an apologist for Trump.
It bothers me that Mr. Brooks expects the anti-Trump protesters to maintain an air of decorum. Vulgar signs... Heavens no! And, predictably, "huge crowds" think Trump is a monster, but that makes you suspicious of the crowd. Let me remind you, we now have in the White House a vulgarian of the highest order, a serial sexual assaulter who has zero respect for women, or at least for women he's attracted to. He invited a hostile foreign power to hack his opponent and said he would throw her in jail, unless one of his gun-toting supporters would kindly take her out first. And we're not even scratching the surface here. We will protect civilly but not politely! We will not roll over. We will not be quiet!
7
Where was Arthur Brooks' great concern for "unity" during the entire eight years of the Obama presidency? Did we even hear a peep out of this hack then?
4
Arthur, you wrote: "Conservatives generally place a high premium on business success and executive-level management experience".
As a businessman, Donald Trump has been a massive loser for 40 years. He has sold high profit, low profile properties and purchased low profit, high profile properties. His greatest accomplishment is losing less than half of daddy's money. If he had sold the business when he was given control and bought US Savings Bonds, he'd be a richer man today.
Dan Kravitz
As a businessman, Donald Trump has been a massive loser for 40 years. He has sold high profit, low profile properties and purchased low profit, high profile properties. His greatest accomplishment is losing less than half of daddy's money. If he had sold the business when he was given control and bought US Savings Bonds, he'd be a richer man today.
Dan Kravitz
2
If a poll was completed to determine the most dishonest president, where would Trump be after a few days in office? Certainly ahead of Pres. Nixon. Where in a year or will the US matter at that point?
Mr. Brooks complains about the "vulgarity" of the marcher's sign. Has he been listening to the word choices of Mr. Trump? I'm not a big advocate of slurs, coarse words or cursing but...what's good for the goose is good for the gander, unless, of course, you're a misogyny-prone Neanderthal.
2
Re the CIA laughing and clapping about Trump's statement that all journalists are dishonest: journalists also die trying to report the news from war torn countries. CIA makes use of journalists' reports from dangerous situations.
Shame on the CIA.
Shame on the CIA.
Can the Times please just publish Ms Collins' comments, please. Arthur Brooks has officially jumped the shark with the nonsensical in-Trump-we-trust rhetoric.
7
Mr Brooks sounds like a complete Trump toddy. I don't believe Trump has the ability to be truthful, constructive, or consistent in his remarks.
In his inaugural speech he claimed support for people of lesser means. He said that he would always work in their interest to make life better for them. Yet, less than 10 hours later he signed a Presidential order revoking an Obama order that would have reduced home mortgage insurance rates about $500.00/yr. for low income home mortgage holders.
How does increasing the cost of home ownership for low income workers benefit them, or contribute to the creation of construction jobs, much less honor his "promise to always work for you"?
Trump is only interested in Trump and further inflating his ego.
In his inaugural speech he claimed support for people of lesser means. He said that he would always work in their interest to make life better for them. Yet, less than 10 hours later he signed a Presidential order revoking an Obama order that would have reduced home mortgage insurance rates about $500.00/yr. for low income home mortgage holders.
How does increasing the cost of home ownership for low income workers benefit them, or contribute to the creation of construction jobs, much less honor his "promise to always work for you"?
Trump is only interested in Trump and further inflating his ego.
1
Arthur Brooks comments could be subitled: How I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb. Trump will almost surely start a (new) war. His rhetoric is protectionist and isolationist, of course. Yet when it comes to healing up contradictions between his bases and what he needs of the Washington establishment, he will find that war is the only unifying card he can play. Essentially, that is what Bush Junior did to cover up doubts about his questionable 2000 election win. Trump will be even more dangerous; he is smarter but more erratic.
2
When asking the question about the closest historical parallel, I think Andrew Jackson comes closest. Although he had served in both the house and senate, by the time he ran for president he was a huge populist figure He, pretty well, invented the Democratic party. HIs election overturned the establishment eastern order in favor of the growing west. His inauguration was the most complete, rowdy, expression of a populist invasion. He ended the US. Bank, leading to deep economic troubles. And, when the Supreme Court ordered him to inforce Native American treaties in Florida, in favor of the Seminoles, Jackson told the court to go enforce it themselves.
I feel really sorry for poor Gail. Patriotism is what will see us through the transition to a smaller, better national government and she is still playing the high school drama queen role. Surely, she was raised to be a more complete person.
But people will eventually realize that they can't take EVERY single word of Trump's as carved in stone as they could Obama's. Trump gets excited and off-topic, and Obama never once trusted the people with the truth about what he wanted.
But people will eventually realize that they can't take EVERY single word of Trump's as carved in stone as they could Obama's. Trump gets excited and off-topic, and Obama never once trusted the people with the truth about what he wanted.
2
Trump's tax cuts for the rich and proposed massive spending will increase the deficit by 10 trillion within a decade. This is a smaller, better national government?
1
Arthur, you're a tool--I know you don't believe any of the pablum you are dishing. Trump is unpredicable and dangerous and I believe that you know it as well as everyone else does. - If you want to help the country you love, start telling the truth and holding him accountable. - If Trump brings up down, you'll be treading water like everyone else.
2
"My biggest worry is not wealthy cabinet secretaries, but the mutual contempt that is still dominating our discourse. At a moment when we should be celebrating the peaceful transfer of power, there’s almost no effort to unite on either side."
Mr. Brooks contradicts his high-minded rhetoric in the very next paragraph by treating the participants in the women's march, peacefully exercising their First Amendment rights, with contempt, conflating the few window smashers on Friday with these marchers (there were zero reports of violence in the march in DC on Saturday - ZERO!) and citing only the "vulgar" signs in a sea of thoughtful, funny and earnest signs and the speech of a single celebrity to denigrate half a million people there and at least that many more in cities, large and small, across the country. Is this an example of your effort to unite?
Mr. Brooks contradicts his high-minded rhetoric in the very next paragraph by treating the participants in the women's march, peacefully exercising their First Amendment rights, with contempt, conflating the few window smashers on Friday with these marchers (there were zero reports of violence in the march in DC on Saturday - ZERO!) and citing only the "vulgar" signs in a sea of thoughtful, funny and earnest signs and the speech of a single celebrity to denigrate half a million people there and at least that many more in cities, large and small, across the country. Is this an example of your effort to unite?
99
Good old Arthur Brooks. He's ticked off. Why?
"Based on the signs I saw Saturday, igniting a thoughtful deep-dive on education policy was not a primary goal for most of the marchers."
" the lowest point came when Madonna gave a speech to the cheering anti-Trump audience at the Women’s March"
As far as Trump is concerned, Brooks is quick to assure us: "I see nothing wrong here".
"Based on the signs I saw Saturday, igniting a thoughtful deep-dive on education policy was not a primary goal for most of the marchers."
" the lowest point came when Madonna gave a speech to the cheering anti-Trump audience at the Women’s March"
As far as Trump is concerned, Brooks is quick to assure us: "I see nothing wrong here".
4
Addressing the bemoaning of divisive politics, I did some historical research of my own, and I think one of the most misconstrued concepts in our country is the purpose of voting. There's a belief that it involves an attempt to invoke the wisdom of the crowds. This is false. There are two basic reasons for voting: one can change rulers without violence and it gives a popular legitimacy to the winner. The second of these is fraying badly at this point. A large swath of conservatives never considered Obama they're President, and the same thing is happening the other way with Trump. The ability of elections to confer political legitimacy is unraveling and if that goes, so does the peaceful transfer of power.
I'm not predicting civil war, but we have momentum in that direction and Newton's first law is that a body in motion remains in motion unless it encounters an opposing force.
I'm not predicting civil war, but we have momentum in that direction and Newton's first law is that a body in motion remains in motion unless it encounters an opposing force.
29
A big issue is the thumb on the scale created by the electoral college. Blue state voters have been effectively disenfranchised three times (since GWB's second term would not have happened without the first). When partisanship runs so deep, and one side's equal participation has been blocked, violence wil result.
1
Brooks swallows Trump whole. Sad. Get rid of Brooks.
2
Arthur, you may be indulging in your own #alternativefacts of Saturday's Women's Marches which were overwhelmingly NOT "menacing and dystopian." All nearly 100% violence and arrest free — worldwide. Feel free to lump the marches in with the Inauguration Day mayhem and arrests in D.C. (and jeez, Madonna)... but it comports only with your worldview, not the facts.
Donald Trump is the standard bearer for the "mutual contempt that is still dominating our discourse," not the antidote despite what he declaimed in his Inaugural address.
Donald Trump is the standard bearer for the "mutual contempt that is still dominating our discourse," not the antidote despite what he declaimed in his Inaugural address.
7
Brooks writes: "For my money, the lowest point came when Madonna gave a speech to the cheering anti-Trump audience at the Women’s March. The content was so obscene that CSPAN had to apologize for airing it. It could practically have been staged by a conservative saboteur to scare people in the middle away from the left."
We're in worse shape, morally speaking, than I thought, if one of the leading voices of the so-called "intelligent right" thinks the use of a curse word at a political protest counts as "obscene", but not an elected president who uses his platform to lie to, and insult, the American people.
Gail Collins is great, as ever, but if we're still going to have these "right/left/boxers/briefs" columns (a shtick I thought was dead when Jon Stewart gave Tucker Carlson the tongue-lashing on "Crossfire") at least find a smarter conservative to fill Brooks' place.
We're in worse shape, morally speaking, than I thought, if one of the leading voices of the so-called "intelligent right" thinks the use of a curse word at a political protest counts as "obscene", but not an elected president who uses his platform to lie to, and insult, the American people.
Gail Collins is great, as ever, but if we're still going to have these "right/left/boxers/briefs" columns (a shtick I thought was dead when Jon Stewart gave Tucker Carlson the tongue-lashing on "Crossfire") at least find a smarter conservative to fill Brooks' place.
7
Yes. Someone was obviously lashing out here and it was not Gail.
1
Why is anyone talking about unity, when this guy rose to his position by being the most negative, most insulting, most dividing person? He's going to get what he gives, and he's going to get it from 65 million people who voted for someone else.
If there's going to be unity, he's going to have to change the way he does business, and he's going to have to apologize for his past immoral un-American behavior. Until then, expect more of the same.
If there's going to be unity, he's going to have to change the way he does business, and he's going to have to apologize for his past immoral un-American behavior. Until then, expect more of the same.
2
Brooks - calling bunko on your entire line of reasoning - 2 words - alternative facts.
Gail - how do you have that conversation without hitting Brooks over the head with your shoe? He is so full of cow patties, his participation makes the column unreadable. He picks the smallest little tidbit of Drumpf's inauguration "speech" that he likes and pretends that is what the entire speech is about. And his false equivalency is nauseating - comparing the contempt from the president - the president! - to those he promises to marginalize?! I mean really... I admire your patience.
Gail - how do you have that conversation without hitting Brooks over the head with your shoe? He is so full of cow patties, his participation makes the column unreadable. He picks the smallest little tidbit of Drumpf's inauguration "speech" that he likes and pretends that is what the entire speech is about. And his false equivalency is nauseating - comparing the contempt from the president - the president! - to those he promises to marginalize?! I mean really... I admire your patience.
4
Sorry, Gail and Albert, but these conversations are shallow and deeply uninteresting.
4
It's hard not to laugh when Arthur Brooks writes, "I confess I did like [Trump's phrase, 'We will shine for everyone to follow'], because it was one of the few really Reaganite lines."
As if that's a good thing! Jeesh! When will the Brookses of the world come to appreciate that their trumped-up hero, Reagan, presaged this farcical absurdity we're having to suffer through today? It makes reading Brooks (and Brooks) and other Brookings Institution or American Enterprise Institute types almost impossible.
Doesn't it make the Brookses of the world just a little bit ashamed to remember -- if they do -- that Trump's slogan, Make America Great Again, was most famously used (before Trump, of course) by Reagan? Trump is, in many ways, the logical, further-right consequence of Reagan's celebrity presidency. C'mon folks. Enough already!
And one more note -- nothing like a straight, white, Christian, American-citizen male celebrating "Trump’s point that the antidote to our corrosive identity politics is greater love of country." GIVE ME A BREAK. How tone-deaf can you get?
Want to talk about corrosive identity politics? The most corrosive and violent of all is WHITE SUPREMACY, the renormalization of which has been ushered in by the very bigoted fascist president Brooks has the nerve to laud. Frankly, I am done reading this cute column between Gail Collins and Arthur Brooks. Brooks hasn't got any self-awareness. Maybe Brietbart is hiring. Later on, cowboy.
As if that's a good thing! Jeesh! When will the Brookses of the world come to appreciate that their trumped-up hero, Reagan, presaged this farcical absurdity we're having to suffer through today? It makes reading Brooks (and Brooks) and other Brookings Institution or American Enterprise Institute types almost impossible.
Doesn't it make the Brookses of the world just a little bit ashamed to remember -- if they do -- that Trump's slogan, Make America Great Again, was most famously used (before Trump, of course) by Reagan? Trump is, in many ways, the logical, further-right consequence of Reagan's celebrity presidency. C'mon folks. Enough already!
And one more note -- nothing like a straight, white, Christian, American-citizen male celebrating "Trump’s point that the antidote to our corrosive identity politics is greater love of country." GIVE ME A BREAK. How tone-deaf can you get?
Want to talk about corrosive identity politics? The most corrosive and violent of all is WHITE SUPREMACY, the renormalization of which has been ushered in by the very bigoted fascist president Brooks has the nerve to laud. Frankly, I am done reading this cute column between Gail Collins and Arthur Brooks. Brooks hasn't got any self-awareness. Maybe Brietbart is hiring. Later on, cowboy.
2
“At the bedrock of our politics will be a total allegiance to the United States of America, and through our loyalty to our country, we will rediscover our loyalty to each other. When you open your heart to patriotism, there is no room for prejudice.”
Mr Brooks thinks this is unifying? I find this the most terrifying part of the speech (and there was a lot to terrify). When someone demands "total allegiance," it abrogates difference of view and values. It brooks no dissent. When I hear "there is no room for prejudice," what I understand is that we must all now embrace the same unquestioned attitude towards leaders and the positions they adopt. Democracy does not require "total allegiance;" it asks for commitment and sacrifice and, yes, respect for disagreement. That sometimes means a citizen can have trouble feeling "loyal" if she believes the country is heading in the wrong direction.
Mr Brooks thinks this is unifying? I find this the most terrifying part of the speech (and there was a lot to terrify). When someone demands "total allegiance," it abrogates difference of view and values. It brooks no dissent. When I hear "there is no room for prejudice," what I understand is that we must all now embrace the same unquestioned attitude towards leaders and the positions they adopt. Democracy does not require "total allegiance;" it asks for commitment and sacrifice and, yes, respect for disagreement. That sometimes means a citizen can have trouble feeling "loyal" if she believes the country is heading in the wrong direction.
2
I was a bit disappointed in this conversation, which is usually one of my favorite things in the Times. Both columnists are sliding back into familiar roles. This is a new era and demands new, thoughtful discourse.
For example, the very first part, about the Inaugural Address - doesn't anyone find "total allegiance" to be a little chilling? Obviously you can interpret it different ways, but there's no way I would profess "total allegiance" if, for example, the U.S. brought back Japanese internment camps. Or I would express my allegiance to the *principles* of the U.S., by fighting against internment camps.
Instead we get a light riposte about patriotism being predictable and... "unifying"? I'm not too comfortable with what we're "unifying" behind.
For example, the very first part, about the Inaugural Address - doesn't anyone find "total allegiance" to be a little chilling? Obviously you can interpret it different ways, but there's no way I would profess "total allegiance" if, for example, the U.S. brought back Japanese internment camps. Or I would express my allegiance to the *principles* of the U.S., by fighting against internment camps.
Instead we get a light riposte about patriotism being predictable and... "unifying"? I'm not too comfortable with what we're "unifying" behind.
4
Mr. Brooks, dissent is patriotic too.
6
Trump said one true word about himself. He is the president of carnage. He says it himself and shows that he is upsetting everything to win an election.
It is easy to criticize and sy your fired. It gives you the illusion of power. But to actually create something, and be a patriot you must bring people together instead of creating carnage as he has done.
It is easy to criticize and sy your fired. It gives you the illusion of power. But to actually create something, and be a patriot you must bring people together instead of creating carnage as he has done.
1
Gail--Dust off and enlarge your world-beating "Dog on the Roof" routine. We are going to need it. Desperately.
Arthur-- You know the old saying about "I turned my head away when they came for the others..." Well, Arthur, what are you going to do when these Fascists come FOR YOU?
Arthur-- You know the old saying about "I turned my head away when they came for the others..." Well, Arthur, what are you going to do when these Fascists come FOR YOU?
2
Well this is quickly becoming a waste of time. And Mr. Brooks, perhaps you should consider getting out of the District a little more
6
Who are Gail and Arthur and why did we care about their "dread" and virtue signaling? More nobodies
I respected Arthur Brooks until this column.
How can Mr. Brooks despair the lack of unity in this country during a peaceful transition of power when he so neatly and predictably falls in line behind his party talking points? When he abandons principle in favor of Trump? When he intentionally highlights incidents like windows being smashed on Friday while neglecting to mention that there were ZERO arrests made on Saturday, when millions marched? Mr. Brooks, if you do not have the integrity and the backbone to stand up for what I'm sure you know is right or to remember the values and beliefs that got you interested in this country's politics in the first place, please don't preach at us about how we should. If you are such a slave to the GOP party line, don't bemoan the lack of unity.
3
Arthur Brooks sounds like David Brooks.
1
We are in a "crisis cycle, where the actual crisis hasn't struck quite yet. Think 2018 timeframe.
Therefore, Trump is Hoover, not William Henry Harrison or Martin Van Buren.
If you look at a super-saeculum, then America is in the same cycle as The Glorious Revolution. England had been battling Catholicism since Henry VIII. When James II came to power, he brought back Catholicism. The people rose up against him, overthrew James II, and brought in William and Mary to rule.
America has been battling human rights since it's inception. The people are already beginning to rise up...the Women's March was about human rights...just read all the signs.
Unfortunately you need a James II to get a William and Mary. In a more modern view, you need a Hoover before you get a FDR.
Hold on, 1929 hasn't hit yet!
Therefore, Trump is Hoover, not William Henry Harrison or Martin Van Buren.
If you look at a super-saeculum, then America is in the same cycle as The Glorious Revolution. England had been battling Catholicism since Henry VIII. When James II came to power, he brought back Catholicism. The people rose up against him, overthrew James II, and brought in William and Mary to rule.
America has been battling human rights since it's inception. The people are already beginning to rise up...the Women's March was about human rights...just read all the signs.
Unfortunately you need a James II to get a William and Mary. In a more modern view, you need a Hoover before you get a FDR.
Hold on, 1929 hasn't hit yet!
1
Dear NYT:
Please bring back David Brooks. Without him, these columns are no longer worthy of the name, "The Conversation." A conversation is not just one side holding forth with a little wry commentary from the other. A conversation would imply equal input from both sides, not a conservative think-tanker holding forth with double his "partner's" word count.
From the word "go," Arthur Brooks has talked down to and borderline "mansplained" at Gail Collins. Sometimes it's better, sometimes it's worse, but it's virtually always there, and she doesn't call him on it because she's supposed to be collegial and polite.
This used to be one of my favorite columns in the NYT; now it's just painful to watch. You can do better for a right-wing commentator than this self-satisfied, bloviating egotist.
Please, please, please, bring back David Brooks.
Please bring back David Brooks. Without him, these columns are no longer worthy of the name, "The Conversation." A conversation is not just one side holding forth with a little wry commentary from the other. A conversation would imply equal input from both sides, not a conservative think-tanker holding forth with double his "partner's" word count.
From the word "go," Arthur Brooks has talked down to and borderline "mansplained" at Gail Collins. Sometimes it's better, sometimes it's worse, but it's virtually always there, and she doesn't call him on it because she's supposed to be collegial and polite.
This used to be one of my favorite columns in the NYT; now it's just painful to watch. You can do better for a right-wing commentator than this self-satisfied, bloviating egotist.
Please, please, please, bring back David Brooks.
7
Mansplaining exactly.
Brooks has obvious contempt for Collins, it is quite galling that this awful man patronizes her (and us) this way. Collins needs to stop participating in this horrible "conversation."
Brooks has obvious contempt for Collins, it is quite galling that this awful man patronizes her (and us) this way. Collins needs to stop participating in this horrible "conversation."
3
Aggravatedly agreed. I do think the conversation is worth having, and I'm a huge fan of Collins; just, I don't think Arthur Brooks is the guy to do it.
Seriously, if David Brooks isn't up for it, Ross Douthat would be an improvement over Arthur. Better still, throw a line over to Jennifer Rubin at the Washington Post.
Maybe the NYT feels that they have to have at least a lukewarm pro-Trumper in the conservative slot, here (all the conservative voices I respect are Never-Trump), but I don't think that's consistent with reasoned, honest discussion. Even if, for the sake of argument, there are thoughtful, intellectually honest pro-Trumpers, Arthur Brooks is not a good example.
Seriously, if David Brooks isn't up for it, Ross Douthat would be an improvement over Arthur. Better still, throw a line over to Jennifer Rubin at the Washington Post.
Maybe the NYT feels that they have to have at least a lukewarm pro-Trumper in the conservative slot, here (all the conservative voices I respect are Never-Trump), but I don't think that's consistent with reasoned, honest discussion. Even if, for the sake of argument, there are thoughtful, intellectually honest pro-Trumpers, Arthur Brooks is not a good example.
1
Here is a radical idea, and one fact: If the New York Times displayed a "Donate to the New York Times" button, I would push it once in awhile.
We need to support the people who feed and nourish facts - even if and when they make mistakes and issue misguided or delusional op-ed screeds. Our Fourth Estate is our last bastion against the forces of darkness now engulfing us.
What say you? I've donated to Planned Parenthood and re-joined the ACLU this week already. I have a little extra dough to help pay down the overhead.
We need to support the people who feed and nourish facts - even if and when they make mistakes and issue misguided or delusional op-ed screeds. Our Fourth Estate is our last bastion against the forces of darkness now engulfing us.
What say you? I've donated to Planned Parenthood and re-joined the ACLU this week already. I have a little extra dough to help pay down the overhead.
This insistence on the part of NYT and commercial and PBS televised media to micro-monitor each Trump-second of time is reminiscent of LBJ's VietNam strategy.
All last summer, the Times, et al, increased the criticisms, amped up any negative minutiae it could muster as though it were truth, and yet Trump won.
So, just as LBJ chose to escalate from a few hundred advisors to 500,000+ troops (and (55,000+ dead) to "win" the war in SE Asia, the media seems to think boosting this daily onslaught will help defeat Trump in 2020.
Let's just see how this works out ...
All last summer, the Times, et al, increased the criticisms, amped up any negative minutiae it could muster as though it were truth, and yet Trump won.
So, just as LBJ chose to escalate from a few hundred advisors to 500,000+ troops (and (55,000+ dead) to "win" the war in SE Asia, the media seems to think boosting this daily onslaught will help defeat Trump in 2020.
Let's just see how this works out ...
Please NYT, set these two nice people free to go do good journalism, because this weekly piece is no longer illuminating or amusing.
3
"Trump is Trump. He had an agenda; he stated it over and over with zero variation in the major themes for more than a year..."
And when the frog asked the scorpion midway across the river, "Why did you sting me? Now we're both going to drown." The scorpion answered, "It is in my nature; you knew all along I was a scorpion."
And when the frog asked the scorpion midway across the river, "Why did you sting me? Now we're both going to drown." The scorpion answered, "It is in my nature; you knew all along I was a scorpion."
2
No, Mr. Brooks, foreign leaders don't tell their people every day: "I'll secure our interest before those of other countries".
Or a you referring to Mr. Farage of the UK, who is not it's leader, or Marine le Pen who is not yet - and hopefully never will be - France's leader?
The latters patriotism, and yours as well seems more like the one that Oscar Wilde described: "Patriotism is the vice of the vicious".
Or a you referring to Mr. Farage of the UK, who is not it's leader, or Marine le Pen who is not yet - and hopefully never will be - France's leader?
The latters patriotism, and yours as well seems more like the one that Oscar Wilde described: "Patriotism is the vice of the vicious".
1
"When you open your heart to patriotism, there is no room for prejudice.”
I take that as a veiled warning -- i.e., If you exhibit any prejudice towards us, you are not patriotic.
And I think my interpretation is the right one.
I take that as a veiled warning -- i.e., If you exhibit any prejudice towards us, you are not patriotic.
And I think my interpretation is the right one.
When isn't patriotism "Us vs. Them"?
1
How can Arthur Brooks suggest: "When you open your heart to patriotism, there is no room for prejudice.”? Does he live on TrumpWorld, the parallel universe where Kellyanne drafts explanations ion "What Donald Really Meant"?
How can their even be patriotism when the Draft-Dodger-in-Chief sits in the White House. The guy who uses military slogans as if he truly knew what he were talking about. If those many men, and now women, who faced the horrors of war, throughout our History, focused on Carnage, rather than Hope, they would truly be up the creek looking for where'd Donald left his paddle.
https://thetruthoncommonsense.com
How can their even be patriotism when the Draft-Dodger-in-Chief sits in the White House. The guy who uses military slogans as if he truly knew what he were talking about. If those many men, and now women, who faced the horrors of war, throughout our History, focused on Carnage, rather than Hope, they would truly be up the creek looking for where'd Donald left his paddle.
https://thetruthoncommonsense.com
It seemed to me like an open invitation to Russia, N. Korea, China and the war lords of Africa, South America and elsewhere: "we're not interested in your ethnic cleansing, hacking, coups and land grabs. We just want to brag about saving a few hundred jobs in factories in the USA." Poland is understandably jittery.
1
"Elites have been ripping off ordinary Americans and will get their comeuppance. I’m going to protect American jobs by any means necessary and will always put our interests first. ... People who approve of this agenda think his directness was a breath of fresh air. "
EXCEPT THAT HE'S DOING (and has always done) THE OPPOSITE.
Stop being so obtuse, Arthur. He "wants to bring jobs back"—but makes his own products overseas. He "puts our interests first"—but refuses to cooperate in an investigation of Russian meddling in the election. He complains about "elites" who have been "ripping off ordinary Americans"—but not only is he known for ripping off ordinary Americans himself by not paying them for their work, he's already handed a huge tax break to said elites. And I could go on.
"Breath of fresh air"? Geez, Arthur, how about breath of through the looking glass? How can you even say these things with a straight face?
EXCEPT THAT HE'S DOING (and has always done) THE OPPOSITE.
Stop being so obtuse, Arthur. He "wants to bring jobs back"—but makes his own products overseas. He "puts our interests first"—but refuses to cooperate in an investigation of Russian meddling in the election. He complains about "elites" who have been "ripping off ordinary Americans"—but not only is he known for ripping off ordinary Americans himself by not paying them for their work, he's already handed a huge tax break to said elites. And I could go on.
"Breath of fresh air"? Geez, Arthur, how about breath of through the looking glass? How can you even say these things with a straight face?
1
I am always amazed when intelligent people like Arthur Brooks can defend Donald Trump.
In his heart, he knows how bad Trump is. Can someone explain why he just doesn't admit it?
In his heart, he knows how bad Trump is. Can someone explain why he just doesn't admit it?
2
Waste of time. Let Collins have a conversation with somebody smarter than Banks, er, Brooks.
2
I wish Brooks & Collins had brought to this conversation a bit of the unvarnished truth told by this headline in today's New York Times:
"Trump Repeats Lie About Popular Vote in Meeting With Lawmakers".
"Trump Repeats Lie About Popular Vote in Meeting With Lawmakers".
2
"When you open your heart to patriotism, there is no room for prejudice.”
Sure, everyone knows all those flag waving white christians across the heartland are the most accepting of LGBT and ethnic minorities.
Sure, everyone knows all those flag waving white christians across the heartland are the most accepting of LGBT and ethnic minorities.
1
The problem I have with Trump supporters (not Trump) is so many supporters have claimed long and loud that any non conservative is not patriotic. As a veteran, I found no difference in patriotism regardless of political affiliation.
1
Always Pence, looking over Trump's shoulder.
Our next president, hand picked by Jared Kushner.
Our next president, hand picked by Jared Kushner.
2
Arthurs answers too long winded and not that light hearted. can we get David back?
4
Glorified, advertised "patriotism" is nothing more than nationalism and jingoism. But, trump doesn't know the meaning of most large words, so I guess I'm talking to the wind. No heart. No soul. Plenty of lies. NOT a president. Never trump.
2
Patriotism involves the right, privilege, and responsibility to say no. I am surprised Mr. Brooks that you did not invoke that as you sought to bring consensus and some sort of dialogue out of this chaos. You simply appear to be smug in your sense of right.
1
And there are no papers on the desk. Like him, all puff and polish. You can't polish a sow's ear.
2
I don't know Arthur Brooks but I now know Donald Trump by his own actions and speeches to be a bullying, thin-skinned, vindictive, unpredictable, undisciplined, inexperienced, narcissistic, old, white, rich male who seems to me to have difficulty stringing more than one sentence together without prevaricating. For those who voted for him because they liked his stance on immigration or jobs or draining the swamp or who didn't like Clinton or who always vote republican, you may have hitched your star to a loose cannon?
Entertaining conversation. Like Arthur and so many others, I worry about the intractable division in our country, except I don't see it as both sides being having become so extreme in their views. Really, only one said has undergone a seismic shift, and that's obviously to the right. So we can have more unity when the republicans become a lot more reasonable; otherwise, I don't see it happening. Arthur's example of left-wing lunacy is perfect for making my point about our political division being largely fomented by one side: Madonna is the extremest liberal who has scared away moderates. Since when does Madonna represent "the left"? She's just one sort of nutty celebrity; she doesn't represent liberals any more than Susan Sarandon does. Meanwhile, for the counterpoint divisive extremism on the right, we have the people who are now actually in charge of the entire country. Does anyone else see an imbalance in that comparison?
2
Now that Trump is elected we're supposed to forget how he got elected? We are now to unite behind Trump? This election was between going back to the past or pursuing an exciting future. The past won. This is not good news. I've lived in that past. It wasn't great for a lot of people and for much of our planet.
How can Arthur Brooks look down his nose at Madonna after the gnarly rhetoric Trump spewed during the campaign. Pure hypocrisy.
2
Arthur, get in the game, this is Donald Trump you are defending. And stop with diverting attention from how ugly this guy is with references to smashed windows and Madonna ---did you ever attend Trump rally.
1
Trump in the WH is not a good thing, his executive orders are harming everyday citizens, he is shutting down the comments coming into the WH switchboard, he doesn't want to hear from us. He is a Whiner in Chief, a bore, a liar. His cabinet picks are chosen to dismantle the departments, not enhance them. Republicans like their rubber stamp name Trump, that is until his embarrassment factor gets too much, then they will impeach him.
1
Bring back David Brooks!
2
Trump, remember, you can just blame the problems on the past 8 years. It worked for Obama!
Arthur, why do you expect the American people to "pivot" and unify? The lines were drawn months ago.
This should have been expected. Reagan was smooth, George W. Bush was pious. Trump is just belligerant and people are reacting accordingly.
1
It is mystifying that Arthur Brooks, who must surely be a very intelligent person (or Gail wouldn't willingly be conversing with him in these columns), could fail to understand that the problem with Trump's inaugural speech is not that is wasn't "the speech of a conventional politician." It isn't that his speech was unconventional that is so disturbing; it is that it was aggressively divisive, patently false in its characterization of the quality of life in the United States, and extreme, even frightening, in its prescriptions.
1
I can think of nothing brilliant to say. However, the speech by Madonna was right on, and I'm an elderly, white,middle class woman..
3
Arthur: did you say with a straight face that part of Trump's message was that "elites have been ripping off ordinary Americans and will get their comeuppance?" Surely, you jest. He did not say that (despite what your ear told you) and it is very much wishful thinking on your part. In fact, it is a joke. One among many as this con man takes over.
I'm not usually a quid pro quo person but, really, Mr. Brooks, you expect us to join hands w/ a party that did nothing but rip things asunder for 8 years & unite behind a pathological liar?
That's as oblivious as your take-away from the marches - teeming hordes of people & all you can talk about is one celebrity & some vulgar signs? I didn't hear about any menace from friends of mine in DC & other cities around the country & around the world - quite the contrary.
That's as oblivious as your take-away from the marches - teeming hordes of people & all you can talk about is one celebrity & some vulgar signs? I didn't hear about any menace from friends of mine in DC & other cities around the country & around the world - quite the contrary.
What a shame!
There's a too much polite talk going on. So Donald Trump gave a coherent speech at his inauguration. It was not written by him. Probably influenced most by Bannon. That was the scripted Trump, whom we've glimpsed before. The unscripted Trump, whom we've most frequently seen, produced the bizarre statement read by Sean Spicer and then the CIA harangue where he rambled on about his smart genes, Time magazine covers, the weather at his inauguration and the imagined throngs, then his grousing to congressional leaders about the phantom illegals who stole the popular vote. You don't need a medical degree to see that this man is disturbed, seriously disturbed. His hands are on the levers of power, and we need to watch closely that his aberrations don't take us into a dark looking glass world.
I see Mr. Brooks has the Conservative Hypocrisy Gene which allows him to critique the manners and language used against the most indecent and profane president we've ever experienced.
4
Vichy France could've used more men like Arthur.
2
Our nation could have avoided the "mutual contempt" spoken of by Mr. Brooks if only the NYT had not been in the tank for Mrs. Clinton, disparaging Bernie all the way. Oh, wait - perhaps the NYT would have disparaged Bernie after he'd beaten Trump as well.
1
"When you open your heart to patriotism, there is no room for prejudice." This line was notable too as it got delayed and sparser applause from the crowd. It should have been a standing O for several minutes.
"When you open your heart to patriotism, there is no room for prejudice.” Trump's comment is easily refuted by the example of the Founding Fathers, patriots all, who were also slave owners.
Gail, please as Mr. Brooks if he honestly feels Trump is emotionally healthy and stable enough to be president. And by the way, I enjoyed your conversations with the other Mr. Brooks much, much more. Though he is more conservative than I am, David Brooks is a reasonable and fair-minded person with a great heart.
2
Brooks vs Brooks: Here is what David Brooks said about the marches: The women’s marches were a phenomenal success and an important cultural moment. Most everybody came back uplifted and empowered. Many said they felt hopeful for the first time since Election Day." Here is what Arthur Brooks said: it "felt more menacing and dystopian than joyful or patriotic." I was at the DC march and clearly Arthur was not. It was electric, uplifting, and empowering. It included people of all ages, genders, and races. To complain about the vulgar signs is nonsensical given they were using Trump's own words against him. The vulgarity was his alone, his words thrown back at him.
1
Right wing radio hosts like Rush Limbaugh and people like Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham, and Anne Coulter are responsible for this debacle in the service of their ratings. They are traitors to our Constitution, our democracy, and our people. They pander to the worst impulses of the most ignorant fools in the country.
2
Arthur, your responses are breathtaking.
"...we have a president who gives his Inaugural Address about the downtrodden little people while he’s appointing a bunch of bankers and billionaires to run the government...
Yeah...shouldda pointed them downtrodden's to run the government!
Yeah...shouldda pointed them downtrodden's to run the government!
The good news is that no-one has ever paid much attention to anything Madonna has ever said or done. Well, other than Madonna.
1
I thought Brooks said some pretty sensible things so I looked at the transcript of Madonna's terrible speech expecting something dreadful. It was nothing. She said a word that isn't usually used on television. I guess most people do that sometimes. She said she had thought of blowing up the White House but she knew it wouldn't help. Has Brooks joined the thought police? It is Brooks who should be ashamed of himself in this matter.
4
Have impeachment proceedings begun yet?
1
I can't even finish this. Why do liberals always let conservatives run the conversation, and define them. When they call out any kind of over-the-line activity associated with left of center, we always say, "oh, we don't condone that, but..." Just stop. We don't have to apologize; the right certainly doesn't apologize for their extremists. If so, they'd be busy decrying the white supremacists marching with guns in Whitefish MT, or the legion acts of hate that are on the rise in every corner of our country.
2
We have Collins’ incessant fear and polemics and Brooks cogent pragmatism. One sees what is and adjusts and the other feels what isn’t and merely protests.
The big news coming out of Trump's bizarre talk at the CIA was missed by everybody except for Rachael Maddow. Our new president actually lamented that we did not "take the oil" when we invaded Iraq, and then further hinted "you guys may get another chance at that". "that" being a new effort to "take the oil" from a sovereign country. It't hard to imagine the ignorance necessary to entertain the thought of taking Iraq's oil. Does the new president think that Iraqi oil is neatly packaged and waiting on a dock for us to swoop in, load it up, and sail away in triumph? Is it possible that he does NOT understand that we would need to re-invade, re-occupy, and then fight a protracted war against not only the outraged Iraqi people but no doubt forces from throughout the area? Truly disturbing that the Commander in Chief does not understand the production of oil, international law or military reality well enough to see how ridiculous his statements and hints are from a practical point of view, not to mention how much danger they could place our forces in who are NOW deployed and working WITH the local forces, forces who would no doubt be their implacable enemies if they suspected we were contemplating "taking their oil".
So now that the whining has begun should we call Trump Lying Whining Donald or Whining Lying Donald?
The scariest thing reported by the NYT on the front page this morning is keeping Comey as head of the FBI while the agency is investigating Trump's alleged ties to the Russians. It seems we have a real conflict of interest here. And Sessions as AG could squash the investigation completely. Gail and Arthur, the dread is underway and for very obvious reasons.
I am getting tired to ask to celebrate the peaceful transfer of power. It is a very low bar for celebration. Why, it is like celebrating that I made my kids brush today. What is coming down the line is more important: millions more uninsured and many many more with deep cuts in their healthcare, trillions in deficit squandered on tax cuts for the rich, wreckage of our environment both in terms of toxins and global warming, a way out of mainstream right-wing supreme court for decades, and so much more. Keep tuned, it is going to be uniquely horrible.
1
"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" - Samuel Johnson, 1775
Madonna's speech was obscene? She said the F word several times, but she didn't accuse Trump or his cronies of having small genitals or disgusting fluids flowing out of their whoozahs. Give us all a break!
At the march in Austin, there was a group of women wearing tees that said "Can we be civil?" One carried a sign: "1968 is calling. Don't answer." I thought this was ripe, coming from voters whose party has embraced rudeness and obscenity for decades now.
At the march in Austin, there was a group of women wearing tees that said "Can we be civil?" One carried a sign: "1968 is calling. Don't answer." I thought this was ripe, coming from voters whose party has embraced rudeness and obscenity for decades now.
6
The refusal of Brooks (a total nonentity) to call out Trump's lies isn't surprising. His CIA speech? Let's say your husband, brother, father, uncle were one of the fallen memorialized by that wall. How would you feel about the man who is supposed to protect their mission lying about how it was the press who made up the feud with the intelligence agencies and then called them Nazis? Trump is never going to take responsibility for anything he has said or soon to be anything he has done. That makes him a child -- and at his age that is pathetic. Worse are the people enabling him. Congratulations Mr. Brooks, you'll get a few environmental regulations rolled back and a lot of people will be denied a living wage. Hope the damage this buffoon does with your help is going to be worth it. Gail as usual, it boggles my mind that you can have a civil discourse with this dishonest apologist.
5
Arthur, twisting and twirling like a worm trying to avoid the hook. Maybe one of the worst aspects of Trump* is his impact on intellectual conservatism.
4
It was a 240 year experiment in democracy and now it's ended. Oh well. Is that Hamilton I hear screaming?
4
"With all due respect" to Arthur, could we bring back David to The Conversation?
He can actually be funny!
He can actually be funny!
2
"When you open your heart to patriotism, there is no room for prejudice.”
Sounds great but just is not true.
Most of the racist people I have known have been flag waving patriots.
That is such an obvious one, how do people get away with such nonsense?
Sounds great but just is not true.
Most of the racist people I have known have been flag waving patriots.
That is such an obvious one, how do people get away with such nonsense?
8
If the lesser Lord Brooks thinks that a multiday argument over the size of the inaugural crowd is unhelpful, then what does he make of Orange Julius Caesar thinking that his first meeting with Congre$$ional miscreant$, um, er, leaders, was the ideal forum to remake the claim, unmoored from reality, that he would have won the popular vote without millions voting illegally? Even Russian
Agent Orange would have to admit that if there had been such a major conspiracy, wouldn't 100,000 or so of those millions have shown up in WI, MI & PA to have changed the electoral college result?
Even Arthur can't bear to mention that the demonstrably false "American carnage" tone is as far from Reagan's "shining city on a hill" as is possible.
Agent Orange would have to admit that if there had been such a major conspiracy, wouldn't 100,000 or so of those millions have shown up in WI, MI & PA to have changed the electoral college result?
Even Arthur can't bear to mention that the demonstrably false "American carnage" tone is as far from Reagan's "shining city on a hill" as is possible.
6
From the moment of Obama's election, the Republican leadership showed absolute contempt for Obama, vowed to make him a one term president and block any initiative he proposed no matter how good it was for the country. Why is it Mr. Brooks, that you expect President of the Electoral College T-Rump to be treated differently by the majority of the voters of this country? Are you saying that Democrats should act better than you and your party does?
5
Although unity is a distant ideal at the moment, I think Brooks should fear the failure of his tribe to know when his leader is lying. Or is it just that they accept that "Trump is just Trump" (talk about denial). Machiavelli is in the building.
6
From a lay perspective, Trump is mentally ill. He can't be trusted; he lies -- incessantly on matters large & small.
His staff (and kids) are unable/unwilling to stand up to him for the benefit of our citizenry. We can't trust Trump/his staff or family to self-police.
ACT NOW --We the people need to be heard and take control.
Indeed, Friday Trump proclaimed: “what truly matters is…this government is controlled by the people” – “the people [are] the rulers of this nation again” – “[this] nation exists to serve its citizens”.
So instead of just our comments here, let’s take him up on his declarations – or call his bluff.
Luckily, Trump has not (yet) removed the Petitions page Obama put on the official WH.gov website, and now the Petitions page has 2 petitions to ensure Trump is working for us not himself/family.
The First Amendment enshrines our right to petition the government.
Scroll down at https://petitions.whitehouse.gov for 2 petition demanding divestment and tax disclosure, respectively.
If Trump is correct that "You learn very little from a tax return", then he needn't fret over tax disclosure. But methinks he doth protest too much.
The urgency of divestment is illustrated in this 1/19/17 article http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/01/donald-trump-conflic...
We the people can not only comment and march, we may petition (and vote)!
His staff (and kids) are unable/unwilling to stand up to him for the benefit of our citizenry. We can't trust Trump/his staff or family to self-police.
ACT NOW --We the people need to be heard and take control.
Indeed, Friday Trump proclaimed: “what truly matters is…this government is controlled by the people” – “the people [are] the rulers of this nation again” – “[this] nation exists to serve its citizens”.
So instead of just our comments here, let’s take him up on his declarations – or call his bluff.
Luckily, Trump has not (yet) removed the Petitions page Obama put on the official WH.gov website, and now the Petitions page has 2 petitions to ensure Trump is working for us not himself/family.
The First Amendment enshrines our right to petition the government.
Scroll down at https://petitions.whitehouse.gov for 2 petition demanding divestment and tax disclosure, respectively.
If Trump is correct that "You learn very little from a tax return", then he needn't fret over tax disclosure. But methinks he doth protest too much.
The urgency of divestment is illustrated in this 1/19/17 article http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/01/donald-trump-conflic...
We the people can not only comment and march, we may petition (and vote)!
5
The US has proven beyond reasonable doubt that it is completely incompetent by holding off doing diligence on Trump until after decreeing him president in an election that makes a sewage treatment plant smell like a rose garden.
Historic precedents? How about George the Third. After almost two-and-a-half centuries, the American states revert to mad monarchy.
3
Be careful what you speak to Mr. Brooks, civil wars have been started with less political animus than exists presently in th US and our Liar-in -Cheif is adept at inciting reactionary anger. We need a media that can stick to facts and make Trump do so as well such as "smashing windows" at the March which was both isolated and for all we know perpetrated by punks and yet Brooks speaks as if it was emblematic of the March. Be careful Mr.Brooks, you need to follow your own advice, this is not how ones starts out a dialogue.
4
Why the vulgarity and basic irrelevance of Madonna even makes it into this discussion eludes me.
4
That's the best Arthur Brooks could do -- comparing the president of the US with a rock star.
4
Madonna has more experience in govt than Trump a She played Evita. He just played a vulgar businessman on reality tv. She is also the far greater celebrity.
If you can look at the women's march and see Madonna as one of its notable features you are nearing full propagandist mode. Arthur Brooks gets the award for being the first semi-centrist to go full-frontal unapologetic apologist. It was bound to happen, at least within Washington. I guess there were some no-nonsense marching orders delivered last week at the old think-tank. Keep those checks coming.
5
How is it going? How about this outrageous, hateful, and anti-scientific measure: EPA is freezing all grants, webinars and communications under the new administration. It's possible the free EPA energy management system will also be removed, stymying efforts of many city and state organizations to analyze all sorts of data.
5
Trump's secret plan to prosperity is to fire everybody.
This country still doesn't know how deeply it has dived into raw psychopathy.
This country still doesn't know how deeply it has dived into raw psychopathy.
Excellent point. How does whichever Brooks this is feel about the anti-science fervor in the White House? Is he still mulling over whether human activity contributes to climate change? Is he willing to call out the science deniers in his party? Or as I suspect, is he just a shill?
1
Sure, Arthur, compare what Madonna said with what Trump said. Only one of them is president. Kellyanne would be proud of the way you avoid answering questions
15
I never thought I would have any respect for David Brooks, but I see now that he must have quit the Conversation with Gail Collins ashamed of the contortions he had to make to put lipstick on the pigs of greed and suppression.
8
Contrary to Arthur's assertion, the Women's March on Washington felt joyful and patriotic to me. And with Trump's declaration that his inauguration was a day of patriotic devotion, it's hard to envision it as anything but menacing and dystopian. Please stop your false equivalence between Trump and those of us who are alarmed by his ascension.
10
One of my most eye opening moments from a retirement home that I have visited, was when lawyers spoke about how they wished they had done something else; had chosen to do something more worthwhile with their lives. These successful professionals had the talent and skills to help, but instead they spent their energies thwarting progress and decency at their clients request.
I suspect that the Trump team will look back on their time in power much the same way, and not just because policies have been predicted by experts (i.e. Krugman, Brooks and Collins) to go sour in a big way if they pursue the course that appears in progress.
If I am still alive, I'd love to visit the Trump team in their retirement and see how they then view their past actions.
I suspect that the Trump team will look back on their time in power much the same way, and not just because policies have been predicted by experts (i.e. Krugman, Brooks and Collins) to go sour in a big way if they pursue the course that appears in progress.
If I am still alive, I'd love to visit the Trump team in their retirement and see how they then view their past actions.
3
You remind me of the regrets expressed by FDR's money people when they realized all the spending had produced such small improvements.
Lawyers do have to represent the client, whether the client is Bruce Wayne's grandma or the Joker.
Lawyers do have to represent the client, whether the client is Bruce Wayne's grandma or the Joker.
There are lawyers out there whose whole practice consists of aiding psychotics to force their delusions on others.
Many lawyers are anything but "officers of the court" who actually verify the facts and understand the contexts of their sworn complaints, L'Osservatore. Few explain what the law really is when there is much more money to be made from obfuscating it, particularly in view of how many other lawyers out there will tell it as the client wants it said, however delusional that may be.
Mr. Brooks writes: "I also appreciated Trump’s point that the antidote to our corrosive identity politics is greater love of country." What does it mean to "love one's country"? Why should anyone love his or her country? Should a devoutly religious person who longs for the afterlife love her country? Should someone who has been wrongly imprisoned (to take an obvious example) love his country? And what does "love of country" even mean? Two people could both claim to love their country yet have absolutely opposed views on what the act of loving would look like or what results it might bring. So how can this silly cliche be an antidote to anything? "Turning down the volume on disagreements: to give "greater focus on the things we hold in common" seems a better idea. Only there's the problem that the party in charge of the government does NOT support most of the things Americans hold in common: like common sense or a desire of universal health care or for a woman's right to choose or to have the wealthy pay their fair share in taxes. So we have put in power the very people who oppose the solution to what ails us: acting for the common good. But Mr. Brooks cannot see that because, let's be honest, he has "alternative facts."
4
Why should I love a country that makes voting an utterly empty and futile travesty all the while telling me it is God's gift to the whole planet? If hypocrisy were a virtue the US would be Heaven on Earth.
1
Arthur is very blase toward this slippery slope of blind patriotism. Patriotism is all fine and good, but in this scenario will be used as cudgel. Extreme vetting of fellow citizens will soon follow passing as the new religious test. Will Arthur be as breezy when Trump twitter attacks him and he needs private security because he expressed an opinion... on the opinion page.
"Arthur: I never buy the “this is the worst time in history” argument, which I heard over and over when Obama got elected"
If that's true, Arthur must spend a great deal of him time hanging around with white supremacists and neo-nazis. Come to think of it, that's no surprise.
I wish Gail wouldn't sully herself with these conversations.
If that's true, Arthur must spend a great deal of him time hanging around with white supremacists and neo-nazis. Come to think of it, that's no surprise.
I wish Gail wouldn't sully herself with these conversations.
2
Mr. Cohen: I marched on Saturday in Washington. How on earth can you conclude the event was mostly a dreary, dystopian, unpatriotic, and vulgar event? For me and millions of others, it was joyous, empowering, and very much inspired by love of our country.
2
These double standards are cracking me up. Brooks complains about Madonna, saying she wants to blow up the White House? What about President Trump's threats towards former secretary of state Hillary Clinton during the campaign, suggesting that the second amendment people do something, or whatever it was that he said that to effect? Oh, my God this is absolutely getting insane. I honestly cannot comprehend four years of Trump. And Conaway. And Pence. The worst part is, I honestly believe that the lesser of two evils between Trump and Pence, is Trump!
Pence has his own little rightwing so-called Christian agenda on his mind. Jesus himself would be horrified.
Pence has his own little rightwing so-called Christian agenda on his mind. Jesus himself would be horrified.
2
Dear Mr. Brooks,
If it is raining and you attempt to dance between the rain drops, you get just as wet and look silly, unless you are Gene Kelly, and intellectually, Mr. Brooks, you are no Gene Kelly.
Stop attempting to defend the indefensible. By means of a perfect storm, Trump won the election.
"Elites have been ripping off ordinary Americans and will get their comeuppance."
Yet somehow you are unable to document the cognitive dissonance of Trump's elite billionaire nominees assuming positions of power while some of them have philosophies that are antithetical to the institutions they are supposed to lead.
I understand that this dialogue is designed as a point counterpoint but it is time to come out of the rain, Mr. Brooks. You're all wet.
TLGK
If it is raining and you attempt to dance between the rain drops, you get just as wet and look silly, unless you are Gene Kelly, and intellectually, Mr. Brooks, you are no Gene Kelly.
Stop attempting to defend the indefensible. By means of a perfect storm, Trump won the election.
"Elites have been ripping off ordinary Americans and will get their comeuppance."
Yet somehow you are unable to document the cognitive dissonance of Trump's elite billionaire nominees assuming positions of power while some of them have philosophies that are antithetical to the institutions they are supposed to lead.
I understand that this dialogue is designed as a point counterpoint but it is time to come out of the rain, Mr. Brooks. You're all wet.
TLGK
Mr. Brooks has extremely selective observational skills. Millions of women demonstrated peacefully on Saturday and he focuses on Madonna being "obscene"? He thinks words are obscene but supports the obscenities of his political party? Mr. Brooks, the leader of your party is a walking obscenity!
3
These Trump apologists sound like Neville Chamberlain with their appeasement of the American bully in chief. I don't suppose they even know who Neville Chamberlain was, or have the slightest interest in the history of the worst global conflict.
1
One of the bits AB thought was heartening I thought was one of the scariest: this business of how we're all going to be reunited by our patriotism. Does this mean if you disagree then you're not 'patriotic'? Look, even loving your mom turns out to be challenging if your mom visibly loathes you, your country is a tad more abstract. That's part of how people turn into refugees. You want us united by love of country? The country in which I spend my life in the "helping professions" and then hear that our educational system takes kids' money and leaves them with zero knowledge? Why should I love *your* country, Mr. Trump? I want a country in which people united in their love of freedom (unmentioned in the speech) and their love for all their fellow human beings regardless of race, religion, ethnicity, and gender can breathe free of fear, free of hate, can all join in loving not just our mountains, deserts, rivers, and oceans, but also how we treat one another and even the rest of the world.
Liberals and conservatives obviously live in two different worlds.
1
That Mr. Brooks can defend Trump's appearance at the CIA at all is jaw-droppingly appalling. In that "speech" he lied about the media being the source of his problems with the intelligence agencies and then bragged about his crowds at the inauguration. Trump's talk was so filled with unmoored egotistical rants that it makes you question what kind of thinking processes actually go on in his brain.
1
These people are a chorus to deny the presence of 800 lb. gorillas.
Interesting to read presumably intelligent men like Arthur Brooks struggling to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse. You just gotta admire their straight faces as the people of the world, especially the female half, shrink in horror at events in the United States of America.
It's a living.
Nobody should be surprised that the one thing a conservative would highlight about Saturday's massive, world wide march was Madonna's goofy speech.
4
Arthur:
Prior to being Secretary of Energy, Steven Chu was Director of Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (one of the DOE labs) -- I would say that counts as management experience.
Prior to being Secretary of Energy, Steven Chu was Director of Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (one of the DOE labs) -- I would say that counts as management experience.
7
Mr. Brooks and his colleagues at the AEI who represent the establishment point of view in your "Room for Debate" feature always bring to mind that famous observation of Upton Sinclair that "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.
3
Every day the pages of the NYT are filled with various attacks on Trump. The net result? The latest Trump approval rating is at 57% and rising fast. Meanwhile the approval rating of journalists is so low as to be undetectable.
1
I'd love to know what poll THAT was! More likely that was the "disapproval" number and 43% was the approval. And journalists and reporters should be cherished, especially now that they're under attack by the disinformation troops.
Another alternative fact.
2
Sorry, Robert. The people here read and you can't get away with the standard Trump and Republican lies.
2
Sounds like Brooks has now completely bought into the delusional Trumpeter world of alternative facts and brazen, wishful thinking. I don't remember him being such a toady before Trump got into the White House. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but it's a disappointing turn for the column.
3
The penalty for failing sycophancy is expulsion from the Trump gravy train.
1
Mr. Brooks is complaining about "vulgar signs on Saturday"?
That's rich. Every single "vulgar" sign that I saw on Saturday was directly quoting the obscene vulgarity of Mr. Trump, while bragging about his success in habitually sexually assaulting women.
But, oh, the citizens are at fault for quoting the President? What hypocrisy.
That's rich. Every single "vulgar" sign that I saw on Saturday was directly quoting the obscene vulgarity of Mr. Trump, while bragging about his success in habitually sexually assaulting women.
But, oh, the citizens are at fault for quoting the President? What hypocrisy.
161
In rely to Ann of Dallas,
Your comment was right-on.
How about an "alternative" protest sign. ( seen on tv coverage of the March ) ?
"Ikea makes better cabinets"
Keep the faith.
Your comment was right-on.
How about an "alternative" protest sign. ( seen on tv coverage of the March ) ?
"Ikea makes better cabinets"
Keep the faith.
1
I am with Gail. It was a terrible speech and surprisingly poorly presented.
1
So millions march peacefully and Arthur remembers the violent few? And he didn't like the signs carried?
Violence of any kind appalls but it certainly does get on TV and is all the conservatives talk about. How about that violent gathering in Boston where they threw the tea overboard? Washington and most Americans didn't like it. How about the violence in response to the suffragettes or the civil rights marchers? Most Americans didn't like that either.
Arrest the violent, but don't hide from the message of the marchers.
Violence of any kind appalls but it certainly does get on TV and is all the conservatives talk about. How about that violent gathering in Boston where they threw the tea overboard? Washington and most Americans didn't like it. How about the violence in response to the suffragettes or the civil rights marchers? Most Americans didn't like that either.
Arrest the violent, but don't hide from the message of the marchers.
2
The Conversation used to be interesting when David Brooks and Gail discussed issues. Though I may disagree with David Brooks on most everything, he offers a thought provoking analysis. On the other hand, Arthur Brooks basically follows the rules for republican conversation; deflect, lie, cherry pick, rinse, repeat regurgitate. Its so very boring and predictable. Has he ever had an original thought?
All the pictures I've seen so far of Mr. Trump in the Oval Office show him seated behind a desk that has absolutely nothing on it except a telephone. Nothing on his desk, nothing in his head?
Arthur and Gail, let's just sit back and wait. For Arthur to be so calm and collected casting complete comfort with this situation is telling. Let's see what happens in the next 100 days. Assuming no external crisis develops - which really does scare me to death - how many internal self-created crises will come from the Trump* collective?
A billionaire (without confirmation from tax returns) with a cabinet full of his rich cronies running this country. Now, why should we be worried?
Not a word about the elephant in the room: we now have a deeply mentally disturbed man as president. Instead we have Gail Collins with her light jokey writing and Arthur Brooks with his head in the sand trying to ignore the implications of a Glorious Leader with the temperament of a toddler in the midst of an extended tantrum.
Arthur was clearly not in attendance at Saturday's march because the claim that it was menacing and dystopian (like the inauguration speech) as opposed to joyful and patriotic is just not true. As for the vulgar signs, um that didn't happen in a vacuum
1
Mr. Brooks, really, you should be ashamed. I am very disappointed to see you turn into a Trump apologist. "But rude protesters on Friday, vulgar signs on Saturday, and smashed-up store windows all suggest that an excess of unity is not our chief problem." Thuggish behavior, vulgarity, petulance, egomania and lies all suggest that an excess of leadership is also not our chief problem. But you must acknowledge that while the elements you cite were present, they were not to the exclusion of good productive communication by a very large number of fervent, motivated protesters across the entire country. Conversely, a brief sentence at the beginning of a paean to himself does not excuse the shockingly boorish behavior of Trump.
The depressing thing for a foreigner (but also true in my country) is that foreign policy (except in trade relations) had no impact on anything in the election. The single most important fact about Trump is his ability to start a big war, and to foment little ones that could turn big, and involve the rest of us, and no one seemed to really care. Trump's stumbling bullying is terrifying because it leads to war. The rest is bad, but this is the BIG ISSUE -- where are the peace marches?
I wish Americans would stop using the reference "homeland" when speaking of our country as it is associated with you know who. It also tells immigrants in our country that this is not their home but ours alone. Bush started calling our country the "homeland" after 911 and I do not recall that reference prior.
Trivial in the context of our current events, but it bothers me, as so many things are today.
Trivial in the context of our current events, but it bothers me, as so many things are today.
2
It is pathetic to watch Arthur Brooks try to normalize Trump. AB tunes out Trump's total sellout of his help-the-little-guy campaign themes, of draining the swamp, etc. He minimizes Trump's tenuous hold on reality, petty vindictiveness, and addiction to lies.
It will be fascinating to watch AB piously contort himself over the coming months, as Trump and his Trumpettes stampede through the china shop.
It will be fascinating to watch AB piously contort himself over the coming months, as Trump and his Trumpettes stampede through the china shop.
1
Can I just say: Arthur Brooks pooh-poohed every one of Gail Collins' observations in a snobbishly dismissive manner. His attempt at sounding amiable was inadequate to conceal his elitist stance. And yes, he also demonstrated an inability to acknowledge even the smallest problems with the incoming administration. Why was he then so preachy about the lack of effort to unite on either side, when he failed to [authentically] make even the smallest gesture?
2
These discussions are becoming insufferable. With every iteration, Mr. Brooks strains even more to claim that everything liberals and the media are saying about Mr. Trump are as bad as what Mr. Trump has actually done. And Ms. Collins does not challenge him on it. It's becoming like the Times's own version of Crossfire - just two politically ensconced pundits talking across each other.
The direction this is going to take is becoming clearer.
During his campaign, Trump as much as acknowledged that he pays no taxes, that he has aggressively and shamelessly used every loophole possible to avoid all taxes, and he admonished Hillary for taking no action to legislate to prevent he and others like him from doing that. he says he would have paid taxes if he had been unable to avoid doing so.
So now it comes to outsourcing manufacturing jobs, is he going to follow that same advice? Only changes in the law will fix this. So go ahead Donald, bring in your border tax. Put your money where your mouth is. Lets see how it works out. It will be giant red tape for business, it will increase prices to consumers big time, it will not create the jobs you think it will. I think you know that.
So rather than risk all this,, you just want to threaten manufacturers without changing the rules, jawbone, use the force of your personality. Well there may be a few apparent victories with that approach, and you will no doubt make the most of them from a PR standpoint, but in the long run it will not work, of course. You will jump all over any company that wants to outsource to another jurisdiction, make an example of them, but of course thousands of companies have done that already. Your selective approach will unfairly disadvantage many manufacturers.
I give Trump about three months. By then the chaos he has created will be enough to get the impeachment effort rolling.
During his campaign, Trump as much as acknowledged that he pays no taxes, that he has aggressively and shamelessly used every loophole possible to avoid all taxes, and he admonished Hillary for taking no action to legislate to prevent he and others like him from doing that. he says he would have paid taxes if he had been unable to avoid doing so.
So now it comes to outsourcing manufacturing jobs, is he going to follow that same advice? Only changes in the law will fix this. So go ahead Donald, bring in your border tax. Put your money where your mouth is. Lets see how it works out. It will be giant red tape for business, it will increase prices to consumers big time, it will not create the jobs you think it will. I think you know that.
So rather than risk all this,, you just want to threaten manufacturers without changing the rules, jawbone, use the force of your personality. Well there may be a few apparent victories with that approach, and you will no doubt make the most of them from a PR standpoint, but in the long run it will not work, of course. You will jump all over any company that wants to outsource to another jurisdiction, make an example of them, but of course thousands of companies have done that already. Your selective approach will unfairly disadvantage many manufacturers.
I give Trump about three months. By then the chaos he has created will be enough to get the impeachment effort rolling.
1
So far, no wall, no jobs, no infrastructure, but we have disassembly of healthcare, the EPA, and the endowment to the arts. On the waiting list: NATO, selling off our National Parks and a tax cut for the 1%. What could go wrong
1
And so Arthur Brooks writes:”
“I also appreciated Trump’s point that the antidote to our corrosive identity politics is greater love of country — it’s not just about turning down the volume on disagreements, but about greater focus on the things we hold in common.”
How, Mr. Brooks, is the white nationalism of Donald Trump not a form of identity politics? Hasn’t it been deeply corrosive, especially when infused with racism and misogyny, which it often is? And, Mr. Brooks, hasn’t Donald Trump been most responsible for turning up the volume on disagreements? What part has his rhetoric and now action played in the nation’s divisiveness?
What we as a nation have held “most in common,” Mr. Brooks, is our ability to find common values and purpose in our diversity – and to be civil, not crude, in our discussions. In an increasingly diverse society, this is how we love our country. I’m afraid that you are too willing to attribute to his opponents ominous trends that have been fostered primarily by Donald Trump and his supporters? It is they, not their opponents, who shoulder most of the responsibility for the nation’s sorry – and dangerous – state of affairs.
“I also appreciated Trump’s point that the antidote to our corrosive identity politics is greater love of country — it’s not just about turning down the volume on disagreements, but about greater focus on the things we hold in common.”
How, Mr. Brooks, is the white nationalism of Donald Trump not a form of identity politics? Hasn’t it been deeply corrosive, especially when infused with racism and misogyny, which it often is? And, Mr. Brooks, hasn’t Donald Trump been most responsible for turning up the volume on disagreements? What part has his rhetoric and now action played in the nation’s divisiveness?
What we as a nation have held “most in common,” Mr. Brooks, is our ability to find common values and purpose in our diversity – and to be civil, not crude, in our discussions. In an increasingly diverse society, this is how we love our country. I’m afraid that you are too willing to attribute to his opponents ominous trends that have been fostered primarily by Donald Trump and his supporters? It is they, not their opponents, who shoulder most of the responsibility for the nation’s sorry – and dangerous – state of affairs.
3
"Conservatives generally place a high premium on business success and executive-level management experience,"
Arthur, this is rich. Any CEO who picked Rick Perry to be Energy Secretary, while neither he nor Perry knew that selection would put Perry in charge of the nation's nuclear arsenal, would be fired on the spot. I can hear your rejoinder now. Well, we don't know Trump didn't know that. Well, if he did, that makes it an even worse management decision.
Arthur, this is rich. Any CEO who picked Rick Perry to be Energy Secretary, while neither he nor Perry knew that selection would put Perry in charge of the nation's nuclear arsenal, would be fired on the spot. I can hear your rejoinder now. Well, we don't know Trump didn't know that. Well, if he did, that makes it an even worse management decision.
3
Arthur-if your guy would stop try to kill my child by taking away her health insurance and bankrupting me by taking away or substantially reducing Medicare and Social Security I might be more open minded. But death and starvation tend to upset people. How would you recommend I respond when Chuck Schumers phone is so busy you cant leave a message at any of his offices?
Seriously, don't be so naive!
Seriously, don't be so naive!
2
Arthur Brooks "Based on the signs I saw Saturday, igniting a thoughtful deep-dive on education policy was not a primary goal for most of the marchers".
You would be surprised. It's a shame that you didn't venture out and talk to some of the marchers, many of whom are remarkably well informed on the issues after years spent teaching, volunteering, working for a wide variety of non-profits and facing challenges in their life that many of us cannot begin to imagine.
We also seem to have lost the ability to look at comments in context. Madonna said "Yes, I'm angry. Yes, I am outraged. Yes, I have thought an awful lot of blowing up the White House, but I know that this won't change anything. We cannot fall into despair. As the poet, W.H. Auden once wrote on the eve of World War II: We must love one another or die. I choose love. Are you with me? Say this with me: We choose love. We choose love. We choose love."
For you and others who are offended by coarse language, the decorum ship sailed a long time ago, in large part due to President Trump. I am much more offended by a man who think it's ok to grab a woman by the genitals than I am by someone who uses profanity.
You would be surprised. It's a shame that you didn't venture out and talk to some of the marchers, many of whom are remarkably well informed on the issues after years spent teaching, volunteering, working for a wide variety of non-profits and facing challenges in their life that many of us cannot begin to imagine.
We also seem to have lost the ability to look at comments in context. Madonna said "Yes, I'm angry. Yes, I am outraged. Yes, I have thought an awful lot of blowing up the White House, but I know that this won't change anything. We cannot fall into despair. As the poet, W.H. Auden once wrote on the eve of World War II: We must love one another or die. I choose love. Are you with me? Say this with me: We choose love. We choose love. We choose love."
For you and others who are offended by coarse language, the decorum ship sailed a long time ago, in large part due to President Trump. I am much more offended by a man who think it's ok to grab a woman by the genitals than I am by someone who uses profanity.
4
For the first time since I started to read this series in the Times, one side of the debate sounds very restrained, cautious and even taciturn about what they say and how they say it (I am looking at you Brooks!). Another example, as if one were needed, of how the new administration seems to be changing the tone and quality of political discourse for the worse.
No mention of the cronies and staff Trump brought to the CIA to laugh and cheer at his remarks, making it look on TV as if it were the agents doing the cheering?
Much more obscene than Madonna's wonderful, and true, remarks.
Much more obscene than Madonna's wonderful, and true, remarks.
1
At the end of the day its not that complicated. Does the guy leave the country better off than when he took office? Its that simple.
Unless you liked seeing your 401k shrink by 5% a week, massive monthly job losses, and your home equity shrink by 3%/month you'd be hard pressed to not conclude Obama left the country a bit better off than when he took office. Bush on the other hand was the reverse.
So the $64k question is going to be whether Trump will leave the country in better shape when he leaves than now? We ran the experiment with GOP policies from 2000-2008 and it didn't end well which is partially why so many are worried.
But we'll give it another try and hope that tax cuts for billionaires, cuts to the safety net, reductions in workers rights, more restrictive voting, less regs so companies can sorta do what they want, etc, etc makes the country better.
And if doesn't we'll vote the suckers out en masse.....
Unless you liked seeing your 401k shrink by 5% a week, massive monthly job losses, and your home equity shrink by 3%/month you'd be hard pressed to not conclude Obama left the country a bit better off than when he took office. Bush on the other hand was the reverse.
So the $64k question is going to be whether Trump will leave the country in better shape when he leaves than now? We ran the experiment with GOP policies from 2000-2008 and it didn't end well which is partially why so many are worried.
But we'll give it another try and hope that tax cuts for billionaires, cuts to the safety net, reductions in workers rights, more restrictive voting, less regs so companies can sorta do what they want, etc, etc makes the country better.
And if doesn't we'll vote the suckers out en masse.....
1
Trump should simply ditch the campaign rhetoric on "Draining the Swamp" and move into the Reality of his Administration:
"I will bring back this country to it's hallowed, golden age of the post-Civil War 19th Century. The period that invented Crony Capitalism. U. S. Grant, I'm with you and that Credit Mobilere thing that enriched your cronies. Let the games begin."
"I will bring back this country to it's hallowed, golden age of the post-Civil War 19th Century. The period that invented Crony Capitalism. U. S. Grant, I'm with you and that Credit Mobilere thing that enriched your cronies. Let the games begin."
Nationalism makes me very nervous. Around the world in many different countries so many atrocities have been committed by nationalist leaders against their own populations. "America First" is a throwback to the 1940's and the anti-Semitic isolationist movement that opposed U.S. entry into WW II. The fanatical belief in American exceptionalism so belligerently demonstrated at Trump rallies during the election and in Trump's comments and speeches since then has a chilling quality. I hope that along with Trump's lies and distortions, his nationalist tendencies can be tempered by others in his administration.
Reading these exchanges is difficult. Gail subtly expresses the fear and astonishment that most of America is feeling, while Brooks continues to slyly deflect and normalize Trump.
The majority of the country never expected Trump to start speaking as a "conventional" president, Mr Brooks. He is who he is, and we dearly wish that you and others would stop pretending otherwise.
The majority of the country never expected Trump to start speaking as a "conventional" president, Mr Brooks. He is who he is, and we dearly wish that you and others would stop pretending otherwise.
1
Okay, if there's going to be so much to discuss then how about actually doing some discussing? The problem with these conversations is they're long on cutesy and short on substance. Why not take advantage of the fact that you have at your disposal a kind-of long form and really go at an issue in an intelligent and respectful way, arguing the merits. Be a model of thoughtfulness and comity, not just clever repartee.
I'm not going to bother reading these conversations any more. I love Gail Collins, but Arthur Brooks is just a worshipper of the wealthy. he adds nothing to the conversation. Please find someone worthy of conversing with Gail Collins.
Apparently Arthur Brooks did not get out on the street to observe the men and women marching on Saturday. What I saw in the support rally in Miami, were ordinary citizens, men and women of diverse ages and races coming together for something they love and don't want to lose--American principles of liberty and fairness. This was NOT identity politics, it was a desire to live a full life and give to your neighbors the same benefits of their own full lives. NO, I will never come together with the mean spirited Trump supporters. Trump simply is not the President of all the people. I don't care 2cents about trade deficits; I care about how people treat each other. Trump and his billionaires racist cronies simply don't care about anyone but themselves. Go Gail, but please find another intellectual sparing partner who gets it!
1
The most unifying part of the address is "total allegiance to the United States"!!
What does that mean? Will all the citizens be checked for this virtue? Only in totalitarian states does such language get used. And "patriotism leads to removal of prejudice"?? Really? Why dont we ask the Tuskegee Airmen or the millions of black soldiers in served in all the wars starting from the civil war.
What does that mean? Will all the citizens be checked for this virtue? Only in totalitarian states does such language get used. And "patriotism leads to removal of prejudice"?? Really? Why dont we ask the Tuskegee Airmen or the millions of black soldiers in served in all the wars starting from the civil war.
It is really interesting that these conversations--which show clearly the emotional state of news reporters--are being published at all. In a time when people distrust the news media, I'm not convinced that publishing a conversation in which one participant clearly indicates fear-based bias serves much of a purpose.
THe possibility of uniting requires a display of good faith. Obama offerd bona fide compromises to unite the country. Repubs did not reciprocate.
Trump has made no good faith offer. He will not seek a "middle of the road" nominee for the supreme court just as Mitch McConnell would not work with Obama on any legislation. Repubs did not try to repair Obamacare. THey did not offer to work with Obama to find a suitable Supreme Court nominee or an infrastructure bill. It is false equivalency to write that both parties act with equal stridency when in power.
The fulfillment of a business contract or the operation of the Republic requires that parties act in good faith. The Republican senate acted in bad faith by famously doing all it could to undercut Obama and the American people. Repubs prevented any legislation that might inure to the benefit of Democrats, without regard to whether it would help the country. It was a successful political strategy for 8 years to subvert the efficacy of the gov't, at great cost to its citizens, so the party in power could be blamed for failure and "gridlock." It was not "gridlock." It was a barricade in the style of Chris Christy. This strategy was never used by Dems. Schumer even now has offered to work with Repubs.
Dems can act in good faith to govern. They may compromise, if that democratic tradition is reciprocated by the Repubs. But "Good Faith" does not mean appeasement.
Trump has made no good faith offer. He will not seek a "middle of the road" nominee for the supreme court just as Mitch McConnell would not work with Obama on any legislation. Repubs did not try to repair Obamacare. THey did not offer to work with Obama to find a suitable Supreme Court nominee or an infrastructure bill. It is false equivalency to write that both parties act with equal stridency when in power.
The fulfillment of a business contract or the operation of the Republic requires that parties act in good faith. The Republican senate acted in bad faith by famously doing all it could to undercut Obama and the American people. Repubs prevented any legislation that might inure to the benefit of Democrats, without regard to whether it would help the country. It was a successful political strategy for 8 years to subvert the efficacy of the gov't, at great cost to its citizens, so the party in power could be blamed for failure and "gridlock." It was not "gridlock." It was a barricade in the style of Chris Christy. This strategy was never used by Dems. Schumer even now has offered to work with Repubs.
Dems can act in good faith to govern. They may compromise, if that democratic tradition is reciprocated by the Repubs. But "Good Faith" does not mean appeasement.
1
Quoting the part of Trump's inaugural speech that Brooks liked
“At the bedrock of our politics will be a total allegiance to the United States of America, and through our loyalty to our country, we will rediscover our loyalty to each other. When you open your heart to patriotism, there is no room for prejudice.”
The problem with this sort of sentiment is that person asking for allegiance and patriotism usually has very specific ideas on what constitutes those things and that is dangerous when they also have the power to punish what they see as unpatriotic behavior. In his "Great Loyalty Oath Crusade" Joseph Heller does an excellent job of capturing both the absurdity as well as the dangers of focusing on allegiance and patriotism and I hope we're not going to end up like poor Major Major Major.
“At the bedrock of our politics will be a total allegiance to the United States of America, and through our loyalty to our country, we will rediscover our loyalty to each other. When you open your heart to patriotism, there is no room for prejudice.”
The problem with this sort of sentiment is that person asking for allegiance and patriotism usually has very specific ideas on what constitutes those things and that is dangerous when they also have the power to punish what they see as unpatriotic behavior. In his "Great Loyalty Oath Crusade" Joseph Heller does an excellent job of capturing both the absurdity as well as the dangers of focusing on allegiance and patriotism and I hope we're not going to end up like poor Major Major Major.
1
It is amazing to me how skillfully Arthur Brooks can turn the lemon that is Trump into lemonade that sounds non-threatening and almost presidential while deftly highlighting the most extreme of Trump's critics from the Women's March. Trump is president with considerable power to affect millions of lives. Madonna is a singer who has only one vote. Expectations of sensible speech/thoughts are different for Trump and Madonna. She exceeds hers; his incomprehensible wanderings into ego-centric trivia is an embarrassment to the office he holds now.
No matter how pretty a picture of Trump his apologists like Brooks and Hewitt are painting, Gail Collins' dread is justified by Trump's speeches and actions to date as president.
No matter how pretty a picture of Trump his apologists like Brooks and Hewitt are painting, Gail Collins' dread is justified by Trump's speeches and actions to date as president.
3
The conservative commenter in this article does his best to deflect the fact that it does not matter in any way what Trump says...the man is a congenital liar. Saying that he has been consistent from the campaign through his inaugural address and first week in office is simply leaving off the much-needed ending to the description...Donald Trump has consistently LIED from the campaign through his first week as Chief Executive. What Mr. Brooks and all other apologists neglect to mention is this: no-one objects to the goal of more jobs; no-one objects to the goal of better living conditions and better salaries for "average" Americans, or all working Americans for that matter; no-one object to the goal of strong security and a safer world. What is so objectionable is the person who consistently and constantly makes these statements in such a vacuous manner, who lies and changes his position at every gust of wind that scrambles through the orange grove on his head, who has no plan, no direction and, especially, no clue on getting from where we are to where it would be nice to be. Mr. Brooks is vainly attempting to support not just an "empty suit", but a clueless empty suit.
1
A couple of points -
1. The "window-smashers" at the Inauguration were a small group of anarchists, using what is called "Black Bloc" tactics. They are not new or mainstream in any way - they originated in Germany with an initial focus on combating Neo-Nazism last century. Their greatest notoriety here was in Seattle in the late 1990s, protesting the WTO. If Hillary had won, they well might have behaved the same way at her inauguration. It is a mistake to characterize their illegal behavior as representative.
2. Arthur Brooks is cherry-picking relatively reasonable points in Trump's speech and behavior thus far - a poor defense of someone so divisive and small-minded in his talk and behavior. He is already difficult for his staff to control. If this continues, he will be abandoned by the majority of his followers.
1. The "window-smashers" at the Inauguration were a small group of anarchists, using what is called "Black Bloc" tactics. They are not new or mainstream in any way - they originated in Germany with an initial focus on combating Neo-Nazism last century. Their greatest notoriety here was in Seattle in the late 1990s, protesting the WTO. If Hillary had won, they well might have behaved the same way at her inauguration. It is a mistake to characterize their illegal behavior as representative.
2. Arthur Brooks is cherry-picking relatively reasonable points in Trump's speech and behavior thus far - a poor defense of someone so divisive and small-minded in his talk and behavior. He is already difficult for his staff to control. If this continues, he will be abandoned by the majority of his followers.
2
At some point the opposition is going to have to accept that Donald Trump is President of the United States of America. At some point Donald Trump is going to have to accept the fact that he is not the President of Trump Enterprises any longer and cannot simply issues orders and Congress and the bureaucracy carry them out. He leads one part of a three part government that has checks and balances and each of the three parts needs to respect and work with the other two insofar as is necessary and possible. Ideological divisions will not go away and there will always be disagreements, but there has got to be sensible discussion and compromise among all parties for the country and the government to function half way properly and move forward. This is not a playground with the big bully lording it over the other kids. The Democrats need to move beyond their anger and dislike for Donald Trump and he needs to reach out and try to work with them to get the federal government, the economy, and other government programs functioning well. This can only be done by rational, reasonable discussions and using common sense, compromise, and reconciliation. This is true for all sides. Frankly given the current overall make-up of the executive, legislative, and judicial branches of the federal governrment the country does not have a first rate team by any means, but we can hope that we can do the best we can with a government of dray horses as opposed to a government of thoroughbreds.
1
Brooks: "...But I doubt many foreign leaders saw the core message as much different from what they tell their people every day: I’ll secure our interests before those of other countries."
Are you kidding? This was a very aggressive speech by an unhinged, narcissistic man who is the leader of the most powerful country to ever exist on Earth. Of course there is a difference - every diplomat on the planet knows what Trump means. And it will mean clashes of civilisations, trade wars and international turmoil for the next four years.
Are you kidding? This was a very aggressive speech by an unhinged, narcissistic man who is the leader of the most powerful country to ever exist on Earth. Of course there is a difference - every diplomat on the planet knows what Trump means. And it will mean clashes of civilisations, trade wars and international turmoil for the next four years.
The US built a successful world after 1945 with a policy of grnerosity that benefitted all of us. Now Trump comnes along, following the famous Daily News Headline : "Trump to World: U_ Y-----" THere was no reason why we should have exoected Trump to change character or policy -- indeed he speech as his campaign was mainly anti-GOP -- but reality will intrude The Americans have always failed to understand that others -- e.g., the North Vietnamese, the Islamists, whoever -- will also stand up for their views and that our current real friends, e.g., the Germans, the Japanese, etc, are not going to lie down either. Eventually it will become clear that Trump is an empty suit who has little understanding of the real world and whose policies, if they can be termed that, will fail to deliver. He won by a narrow margin in a system rigged from 1789 based on territory not people, and he can be defeated by relatively small movements of voters.
I would enjoy this feature more if Collins and Brooks would speak to each other's observations, rather than coming forth with their highly predictable positions. Real conversations go beyond canned talking points.
Trump lied all through his campaign and then after the election we have been told by some 'to give him a chance', or he's just in 'campaign mode' he needs a little time to adjust to actually being in 'presidential mode'. Now it's just more lies and deceptions from conservatives Lies, Incorporated and the White Supremacists (Bannon had a heavy hand in the Inaugural Address per the WSJ).
1
Gail, the consummate ironist, should have vexed Arthur more directly about Trump's antipathy to the truth on virtually every subject. Brooks tried and failed to defend the indefensible. Gail prefers to untie an opponent's shoelaces rather than point out that he's not wearing clothes. The sooner both Trump and Penced are impeached and removed from office the better.
1
Arthur has turned a bit serious here. The famous light touch is mostly missing. I take this to be a sign of tension arising from the turmoil an intelligent person suffers when trying to defend the indefensible.
3
What planet does Arthur Brooks live on? He says "My biggest worry is . . . the mutual contempt that is still dominating our discourse. At a moment when we should be celebrating the peaceful transfer of power, there’s almost no effort to unite on either side. We are almost completely locked down as a nation, ideologically."
Mr. Brook's doesn't seem to differentiate between the outrageous lies of the Republicans vs the truth-telling of the Democrats. How on earth does a person who holds integrity dear unite with unrepentant liars? He's doing that "false equivalency" thing again. Their lies are as good as our truths, so we should unite? Spare us the wishy washy thoughts of Mr. Brooks, please.
Mr. Brook's doesn't seem to differentiate between the outrageous lies of the Republicans vs the truth-telling of the Democrats. How on earth does a person who holds integrity dear unite with unrepentant liars? He's doing that "false equivalency" thing again. Their lies are as good as our truths, so we should unite? Spare us the wishy washy thoughts of Mr. Brooks, please.
2
President Trump is in the building and soon Mr. Trump, his plutocratic cabinet, and Speaker Ryan will set to work on a massive infrastructure project. For the vast majority of Americans, they will be constructing a oneway superhighway to serfdom.
This massive project begins with the GOP wrecking crew doing its job: Privatize or otherwise diminish social programs such as public education, Medicare or Social Security; environmental and financial deregulation; reduced taxes for the rich, etc.
Then all the workers will be rendered more thoroughly insecure, and exceedingly thankful for whatever mode of underemployment is offered them.
The outcome: Heaven for the Plutocrats, dwelling in their pent houses and gated communities, a far lesser estate for we mere mortals.
This massive project begins with the GOP wrecking crew doing its job: Privatize or otherwise diminish social programs such as public education, Medicare or Social Security; environmental and financial deregulation; reduced taxes for the rich, etc.
Then all the workers will be rendered more thoroughly insecure, and exceedingly thankful for whatever mode of underemployment is offered them.
The outcome: Heaven for the Plutocrats, dwelling in their pent houses and gated communities, a far lesser estate for we mere mortals.
"My biggest worry is not wealthy cabinet secretaries, but the mutual contempt that is still dominating our discourse. "
Yeah, why on earth are we being so divisive when he puts white supremacists in the White House? Why do we have to insist that Hillary won the popular vote when he says illegal immigrants stole it? Why do we disapprove of his trashing of our national intelligence agencies when they suggest he might be beholden to a foreign power?
We should be much more respectful of these unifying gestures on his part.
Yeah, why on earth are we being so divisive when he puts white supremacists in the White House? Why do we have to insist that Hillary won the popular vote when he says illegal immigrants stole it? Why do we disapprove of his trashing of our national intelligence agencies when they suggest he might be beholden to a foreign power?
We should be much more respectful of these unifying gestures on his part.
2
What is it with Republicans and "vulgarity"? You'd think this was 1950, when ordinary, nice, educated, utterly civil people really didn't frequently use the s word and the f word, and all the other common emphatics.
I really wish we didn't have to do that silly thing - either say it or don't say it. Holding the offending term aloft between thumb and pinky as a virtue signal in 2017 is like pretending to blush when someone says 'bathroom', or 'hell'. But for a party that's now run by the p word man, whose real offense was that he uttered it in the context of sexual assault, and for Arthur to characterize the spectacularly peaceful and positive women's march as an objectionable exhibit of "vulgar" signs, is truly obscene.
Republicans have long loved to portray themselves as the keepers of old fashioned Christian virtue that way. The rest of us have been busy promoting whacky ideas like being one's brother's keeper, prioritizing the needs of the poor, tolerating (even loving) our neighbors, and respecting the sacred vessels that are one another's bodies. Oh, and throwing the money changers out of the temple, with a few choice and angry words.
And after the shameful debacle of Republican contempt for Obama that we all have had to witness for the last 8 years, to suddenly pretend that their message is or ever has been some sort of kumbaya unity (who made that lovely song a nasty joke?) is, well, a lot of xx-words.
I really wish we didn't have to do that silly thing - either say it or don't say it. Holding the offending term aloft between thumb and pinky as a virtue signal in 2017 is like pretending to blush when someone says 'bathroom', or 'hell'. But for a party that's now run by the p word man, whose real offense was that he uttered it in the context of sexual assault, and for Arthur to characterize the spectacularly peaceful and positive women's march as an objectionable exhibit of "vulgar" signs, is truly obscene.
Republicans have long loved to portray themselves as the keepers of old fashioned Christian virtue that way. The rest of us have been busy promoting whacky ideas like being one's brother's keeper, prioritizing the needs of the poor, tolerating (even loving) our neighbors, and respecting the sacred vessels that are one another's bodies. Oh, and throwing the money changers out of the temple, with a few choice and angry words.
And after the shameful debacle of Republican contempt for Obama that we all have had to witness for the last 8 years, to suddenly pretend that their message is or ever has been some sort of kumbaya unity (who made that lovely song a nasty joke?) is, well, a lot of xx-words.
4
The GOP has hitched its wagon to the most unpopular president in history and is pushing through the most far-right, extremist legislation in recent history. The GOP had similar control of government from 2003 to 2007, yet did not pursue anything like the current extremism. Theirs represents the minority position on outright repeal of the A.C.A., climate change and green energy, education, tax cuts for the rich, decreased regulation of Wall Street Financial institutions, women's rights and forcing Trump to release his tax returns.
What right do they think they have to institute this hostile takeover of our Democracy? What chance do they think they have to retain power when the majority rises up against them in 2018 and 2020? Have they gone as insane as their president?
What right do they think they have to institute this hostile takeover of our Democracy? What chance do they think they have to retain power when the majority rises up against them in 2018 and 2020? Have they gone as insane as their president?
1
Maybe I didn't laugh and didn't find this column the least bit amusing because the situation is beyond humor.
Try as Brooks might to find an equivalency between this administration and the last, there just wasn't any.
There is nothing equal about Trump's band of robbers. He is leader of a vindictive hate crew. Obama's crew came to do what was best for the country given the facts at hand.
Trump is all about exclusion - "you are fired" mentality. The Republicans running Washington love it because they can fire all the people of color. The world will follow our light because of the glare coming off the white faces surrounding Washington.
I got used to the diversity in Obama's administration. I got used to the fight for my interests, the culture of governance for the people and not for business. I got used to the balance of power between business and government.
The march was important just to give those who watch Trump sink his talons into our Constitution a sense that the end of civilization is not near.
And stop talking about Madonna as if she represented anyone at the march, when so many people spoke so eloquently. Most people will agree she is as crazy as Trump is, but thankfully a majority of Democrats would not support her as President.
Try as Brooks might to find an equivalency between this administration and the last, there just wasn't any.
There is nothing equal about Trump's band of robbers. He is leader of a vindictive hate crew. Obama's crew came to do what was best for the country given the facts at hand.
Trump is all about exclusion - "you are fired" mentality. The Republicans running Washington love it because they can fire all the people of color. The world will follow our light because of the glare coming off the white faces surrounding Washington.
I got used to the diversity in Obama's administration. I got used to the fight for my interests, the culture of governance for the people and not for business. I got used to the balance of power between business and government.
The march was important just to give those who watch Trump sink his talons into our Constitution a sense that the end of civilization is not near.
And stop talking about Madonna as if she represented anyone at the march, when so many people spoke so eloquently. Most people will agree she is as crazy as Trump is, but thankfully a majority of Democrats would not support her as President.
4
I'm afraid we are headed towards a civil war- eventually and somehow. I can only hope, like the peaceful transfer of power, it will be a peaceful separation of peoples who no longer belong together.
2
I never had any expectations that DT would grow up and start acting like a president. The man clearly has a severe case of narcissistic personality disorder, on the sociopathic end of the scale. That means he is incapable of self-reflection. I actually don't think he's a liar - I think he psychologically cannot absorb any fact that downgrades his grandiose self-view in any way because he is so wounded. It's a symptom of his disorder. Most of the people I know are very aware of this and never thought he'd suddenly grow up - that's why we find him so frightening. His disorder is not unlike many of the world's worst dictators and it makes him completely unfit to be POTUS.
3
While I was traveling in the Confederate South on business during the reign of conservative Republican saint Ronald Wilson Reagan I was repeatedly told by white evangelical Christians that Reagan bore the 666 "three hundred three score and six mark of the beast" foretold in the Book of Revelation 13: 16-18. Reagan's six lettered trinomial personal, middle and surname, divorced status and acting background sealed the deal for them.
The Republicans have regularly nominated multiple married adulterers for President. Reagan, McCain and Trump are the antithesis of conservative evangelical Christian values and principles. From Washington to Jefferson to Monroe to Madison to Jackson to Harrison to Tyler to Polk to Taylor the White House has been inhabited by white supremacist male xenophobic racist misogynous rapist slave trading owner masters. No Christians among them from Matthew 25:31-46.
No Trump blood has ever been shed in an American military uniform nor covert American intelligence service.
Can we expect to see the White House burning again as divine justice for Americans original sin of humanity denying black African enslavement?
Lightning? A meteor? Confederate rebellion? War of 1812 justice? A Nazi German Reichstag farce?
The Republicans have regularly nominated multiple married adulterers for President. Reagan, McCain and Trump are the antithesis of conservative evangelical Christian values and principles. From Washington to Jefferson to Monroe to Madison to Jackson to Harrison to Tyler to Polk to Taylor the White House has been inhabited by white supremacist male xenophobic racist misogynous rapist slave trading owner masters. No Christians among them from Matthew 25:31-46.
No Trump blood has ever been shed in an American military uniform nor covert American intelligence service.
Can we expect to see the White House burning again as divine justice for Americans original sin of humanity denying black African enslavement?
Lightning? A meteor? Confederate rebellion? War of 1812 justice? A Nazi German Reichstag farce?
1
Mr. Brooks, I participated in the Women's March on Saturday and strongly disagree with your statement "But around Washington, both events felt more menacing and dystopian than joyful or patriotic." Yes, the inauguration was absolutely menacing and dystopian. But the march radiated joy and humor -characteristics in scarce supply in this administration - in it's pointed opposition to the misogyny, racism and xenophobia on rampant display in Trumpland. The crowd, as has been reported repeatedly in the media, was peaceful - no arrests or violence that day. So take a moment to consider the facts, not "alternative facts".
4
“When you open your heart to patriotism, there is no room for prejudice.”
Many conservatives are quoting this line from Mr. Trump’s inaugural diatribe as the most poetic? Say what? What has patriotism to do with prejudice? History is replete with nations that abounded in patriotism but were severely prejudiced – for example, Nazi Germany and our own country during a century of slavery!
“It was definitely nationalistic. The surprise from abroad is understandable, given the deeply international tone and focus that our last two presidents preferred.”
Given that we are part of an irreversible global economy, it would seem the last two presidents were correct in pursuing an international tone that is so necessary to maintaining our number one status in GDP. Trump’s protectionist tendencies are likely to move #2 China into our spot sooner than later.
Many conservatives are quoting this line from Mr. Trump’s inaugural diatribe as the most poetic? Say what? What has patriotism to do with prejudice? History is replete with nations that abounded in patriotism but were severely prejudiced – for example, Nazi Germany and our own country during a century of slavery!
“It was definitely nationalistic. The surprise from abroad is understandable, given the deeply international tone and focus that our last two presidents preferred.”
Given that we are part of an irreversible global economy, it would seem the last two presidents were correct in pursuing an international tone that is so necessary to maintaining our number one status in GDP. Trump’s protectionist tendencies are likely to move #2 China into our spot sooner than later.
1
Some completely predictable aspects of Trump is that the man will remain narcissistic, ignorant of daily lives of his ardent voters, easily manipulated, gloomy with vulgar sense of humor. His past and recent statements and behaviors do not bode well for our democracy, but that too is unpredictable. Unfortunately, we should not be too terribly shocked as Congress seems full of folks pretty similar to him.
Arthur, you sound like the definition of "apologist". There is no apology for Donald Trump. For someone who worked his way through the primaries and the campaign downright insulting everyone he encountered, fomenting violence, lying on a daily and hourly basis, it's not enough to euphemize everything he says with an acknowledgement that he is simply "Trump being Trump". At some point, Conservatives will need to recognize that this guy is simply scary.
As to Obama, Republicans paint him like the scourge of the modern world so I will ask just one question. Are we better off today, by every empirical standard, than we were 8 years ago?
As to Obama, Republicans paint him like the scourge of the modern world so I will ask just one question. Are we better off today, by every empirical standard, than we were 8 years ago?
2
" the new leader of the most powerful nation on the planet telling us that America’s spent way too much time helping out the rest of the world."
No we resent how much money we've spent on the rest of the world and that includes all the military expenditures.
It's time for the US to look inward and start fixing our own problems. Borrowing to support other nations is as dumb as dumb gets. If we have to borrow let's spend it on us.
No we resent how much money we've spent on the rest of the world and that includes all the military expenditures.
It's time for the US to look inward and start fixing our own problems. Borrowing to support other nations is as dumb as dumb gets. If we have to borrow let's spend it on us.
So, the long awaited pivot finally arrived, not on the part of Trump, but on the part of "conservatives-with-a-conscience." I guess they can abandon the outrage they were able to summon, on occasion, against Candidate-Trump and jump right in. After all, if they can advance there own agenda, why quibble with the Fearless Leader or his fellow travelers: the racists, the xenophobes, the homophobes, the misogynists and the just plain greedy?
1
You guys missed discussing the executive order Trump has passed making Jan 20, 2017 "The National Day of Patriotic Devotion".
That's important in terms of how he's going to use transference to make people (for now his base) see devotion to Trump as bring patriotic.
Trump is dangerous because (thanks to Bannon) he mixes psychology into the fascistic instincts dictators in the Third World have. Am I hyperventilating? Maybe not. He did say that he'd like military strength to be demonstrated as a sign of making America Great Again. So: Planes flying. Tanks marching...?
Like the Independence Day or national day rallies in Korea? Saddam? Under the Soviet Union? 1930s and 1940s?
Please keep an eye on this...
That's important in terms of how he's going to use transference to make people (for now his base) see devotion to Trump as bring patriotic.
Trump is dangerous because (thanks to Bannon) he mixes psychology into the fascistic instincts dictators in the Third World have. Am I hyperventilating? Maybe not. He did say that he'd like military strength to be demonstrated as a sign of making America Great Again. So: Planes flying. Tanks marching...?
Like the Independence Day or national day rallies in Korea? Saddam? Under the Soviet Union? 1930s and 1940s?
Please keep an eye on this...
80
2nd para should end reading "being" patriotic. Not "bring".
Sorry. Auto-correct.
Sorry. Auto-correct.
Mr. Brooks says that the women's march in Washington "felt more menacing and dystopian than joyful or patriotic." He must have attended a different march than I did. The march I attended was full -- full! -- of people who went out of their way to be courteous, friendly, and helpful to each other, and to the police officers and National Guard along the route. In the midst of deep fear about our new norm-smashing Administration, we marchers found reasons for hope in the fact that so many fellow citizens were moved to come out in defense of our democracy. Maybe Mr. Brooks should have mingled with us instead of projecting his prejudices onto us from afar.
161
"The march I attended was full -- full! -- of people who went out of their way to be courteous, friendly, and helpful to each other, and to the police officers and National Guard along the route."
The 100s of Canadians that made the trek and marched in Washington stated how warmly they were greeted. In fact, they spoke of how the sight of the toques bearing the Canadian flag made their fellow marchers weep with joy and appreciation.
The 100s of Canadians that made the trek and marched in Washington stated how warmly they were greeted. In fact, they spoke of how the sight of the toques bearing the Canadian flag made their fellow marchers weep with joy and appreciation.
2
Thank you both.
For a newspaper whose motto is "all the news that's fit to print" this "Conversation" debate is silly.
Surely NY Times reporters could provide more important news like an investigative report on all properties and businesses owned by Trump, his family members, and who his "partners" are in these businesses.
"Cutsy" writing should not be part of the NY Times style book.
Surely NY Times reporters could provide more important news like an investigative report on all properties and businesses owned by Trump, his family members, and who his "partners" are in these businesses.
"Cutsy" writing should not be part of the NY Times style book.
This is the opinion section.
Trump's enablers don't want to know anything at all about how their orange-haired boy works his magic.
Trump's enablers don't want to know anything at all about how their orange-haired boy works his magic.
"I liked “We will shine for everyone to follow.” Like the world’s little sunbeam."
Trump stated that when he started his inaugural address, the rain stopped and blue sky opened up over him. Nobody else seems to have noticed this amazing phenomenon, but if Trump is actually able to control the weather, or has the ear of the entity who rules the skies, he has definitely missed his true and most lucrative calling.
Trump stated that when he started his inaugural address, the rain stopped and blue sky opened up over him. Nobody else seems to have noticed this amazing phenomenon, but if Trump is actually able to control the weather, or has the ear of the entity who rules the skies, he has definitely missed his true and most lucrative calling.
3
trump: if you disagree with someone, don't articulate your position or try to expose the flaws in theirs, just call them a name and brag about your greatness. his vocabulary and speech patterns are those of a third grade little fat kid on a playground. so unpresidential. sad.
2
Brooks notes that "both of Obama’s energy secretaries were physicists without much management experience." As I recall, they had PhDs in physics. I suppose he thinks Rick Perry is a better choice what with his degree in animal husbandry or whatever it is. That, and he couldn't remember the name of the department and apparently didn't know what they did.
Then, Brooks tries to normalize Trump's appearance at the CIA by quoting his smarmy statement about how he actually loves the CIA. His remarks there were largely devoted to defending the size of his inauguration crowd.
Some things are indefensible, Mr. Brooks.
Then, Brooks tries to normalize Trump's appearance at the CIA by quoting his smarmy statement about how he actually loves the CIA. His remarks there were largely devoted to defending the size of his inauguration crowd.
Some things are indefensible, Mr. Brooks.
7
Now I get why the Times paired Gail and Arthur: the former is predictably liberal and a truly gifted humorist, the latter predictably think-tank conservative and utterly without originality or wit.
5
Whatever the topic, tax cuts are free money to Republicans.
Am I the only person concerned about Trump & Co. urging unity, patriotism, and loyalty to our country, knowing they define that by acquiesce to whatever they say it is?
3
These folks just grab whatever they want by the crotch.
1
Mr. "Both Sides Do It" Brooks offers "But Not The Nice Trump Folks" examples of nastiness in DC surrounding the inauguration: anti-trump protestors, including some violent ones; people saying rude things at the massive protests the next day; Madonna being Madonna. His Goldbergian smirk, including the above-the-fray joke at the end of that segment further destroyed any doubt that he is anything but a converted Trumpian.
Mr. "But Trump Said He Loved The CIA" Brooks says Madonna's heated rhetoric sticks like glue to her and by extension to the millions who showed up at the marches, but Trump's documented history of repeated anti-Intelligence agency rhetoric is cancelled by his self-serving comment at the beginning of a rant mostly about how sadly put upon he, Trump, has been at the hands of the "lying media".
Your above-the-mess shtick had already gotten old, Mr. Brooks. Your use of it to create false equivalency is infuriating. And Ms. Collins? Maintaining a veneer of civility and insider chortling in the face of this is not reflecting well on you either. You need to sit up, shake your head to clear it and realize what you are condoning.
Mr. "But Trump Said He Loved The CIA" Brooks says Madonna's heated rhetoric sticks like glue to her and by extension to the millions who showed up at the marches, but Trump's documented history of repeated anti-Intelligence agency rhetoric is cancelled by his self-serving comment at the beginning of a rant mostly about how sadly put upon he, Trump, has been at the hands of the "lying media".
Your above-the-mess shtick had already gotten old, Mr. Brooks. Your use of it to create false equivalency is infuriating. And Ms. Collins? Maintaining a veneer of civility and insider chortling in the face of this is not reflecting well on you either. You need to sit up, shake your head to clear it and realize what you are condoning.
6
You followers of super-celebrity Trump seem to be jealous of most of the rest of the celebrities on Earth.
1
Bring back David Brooks. This guy has very little to say, and he's not funny. That's a big missed opportunity if you're paired with Gail Collins. And lord knows, we do need some humor.
7
With Arthur Brooks as half of this conversation, the value it served and the thoughtfulness it once served is gone. With David Brooks you had someone who was conservative but not without sensitivities to the issues of his party. Disappointing, because Gail Collins is always willing to be open-minded and she's smart as hell.
6
Many Republicans are as tendentious as Kellyanne Conway. Absolutely no input changes what they say.
Did Arthur Brooks not see the angry ineptness of Donald Trump and the mess he's made in just 4 days???
And I'm always amazed that Conservatives never hold themselves to the standard they try to hold liberals to. Yes, there was some criminal activities in the streets on Friday...but there have been well over a THOUSAND criminal events by Trumpists since November 8: Swastikas, vandalism, assaults, threats, but no Conservative pounds the table about THEM!
Nor do they recognize their own hypocrisy in demanding that Liberals cave in and not be divisive, yet it was perfectly OK with them for Mitch McConnell and John Boehner to launch campaigns of 8 years of total obstructionism the day Barack Obama was inaugurated, similar to what Newt Gingrich launched in 1995.
Frankly, Mr. Brooks, Liberal America, who voted against Donald Trump rather overwhelmingly, have no common ground with this egotistical shallow creep. And he is creepy in everything he does.
And I'm always amazed that Conservatives never hold themselves to the standard they try to hold liberals to. Yes, there was some criminal activities in the streets on Friday...but there have been well over a THOUSAND criminal events by Trumpists since November 8: Swastikas, vandalism, assaults, threats, but no Conservative pounds the table about THEM!
Nor do they recognize their own hypocrisy in demanding that Liberals cave in and not be divisive, yet it was perfectly OK with them for Mitch McConnell and John Boehner to launch campaigns of 8 years of total obstructionism the day Barack Obama was inaugurated, similar to what Newt Gingrich launched in 1995.
Frankly, Mr. Brooks, Liberal America, who voted against Donald Trump rather overwhelmingly, have no common ground with this egotistical shallow creep. And he is creepy in everything he does.
7
Hypocrisy is the only thing that inflates Republican balloons.
2
Mr. Brooks obviously knows very little about the two scientists who headed the Department of Energy. They had managed Federal Research Laboratories which are very much a basic mission of DoE and thus had plenty of relevant management expertise. Both were the most impressive Secretaries of that agency since it was created. Mr Brooks buys into the school of management that teaches a manager does not need to understand what he/she manages as long he has managed some large organization in the past. Well, research laboratories have had to suffer in the past bad decisions from DoE Secretaries who had no understanding of how science is done.
19
Arthur, of course, will never say anything bad about Trump.
Is it because he's protecting his place in the Republican establishment? If so, he's a coward, and the Times should get rid of him.
Or does he really believe that Trump will be a good president? If so, he's a fool, and the times should get rid of him.
Is it because he's protecting his place in the Republican establishment? If so, he's a coward, and the Times should get rid of him.
Or does he really believe that Trump will be a good president? If so, he's a fool, and the times should get rid of him.
42
Donald is a loser.
17
Not as much a HRC.
Sorry. She won the popular vote rather than the alternative vote. Even Trump's rattled by THAT one!
Gail, shame on you for letting your chum get away with disparaging the women's march! Don't you believe it was about more than some objectionable signs, celebs in the streets and Madonna ' s rant? Brooks is usually reasonable but he was insufferable on this one and you should have called him out on his obvious sexism. He may dismiss a whole movement with faint criticism, but trust me, we're not going away.
41
Amen!
With due respect, the phrasing of the call to "total allegiance to the United States of America, [so that] through our loyalty to our country, we will discover our loyalty to each other..." has an echo of the call to learn to love Big Brother in Orwell's novel, 1984. A companion piece to this distortion is Press Secretary Spicer telling the press that it hurts the Trump administration's feelings when the press points out their negatives. I think, Ms Collins, we need more than fear and dread in our resistance to this effort to intimidate the press and to reduce expectations for meaningful metrics. The press will be important to ensure an informed public and to shine a light on the lies.
16
Umm, no, Arthur, this is not just window dressing. DJT is peevish, overly sensitive, and intellectually lazy with a showman's style for gaining attention. He played the suckers created by Mitch McConnell for fools by cultivating their believe that the government was somehow their problem so ridiculing it was the solution. The repeat of history is often farce and we are here--DJT is a farcical form of Reagan without the sunny view and the helpful laziness. The upside of farce is slapstick, which we've seen, the downside is longterm damage to confidence in government and shared values. DJT just doesn't care about either the past or the future, only about himself in the now as we can see. This will end badly.
27
Many of us marching simply LOATHE Trump. He acts like a pig. His politics are bad but he is soulless, petty, and mean to his core. We marched FOR many things-education, healthcare, immigration, equality, civil rights. We marched AGAINST one thing-Trump. Mr. Brooks you have no idea how fathomless our anger is.
58
Madonna was not vulgar, she was correct.
16
"President Trump Is in the Building"
No, he is NOT!
Trump never wanted this job; he ran to promote his ugly brand!
No, he is NOT!
Trump never wanted this job; he ran to promote his ugly brand!
9
I think "president" trump and the GOP need to realize for every action there is a equal reaction. They spent the last 18 months talking hate and white supremacy. They had a tape where our new president is bragging about molesting women, his cabinet picks are 99% rich white men, his advisors are white supremacists, he flaunts conflict of interest policies and loves our enemies. Thus he gets world wide protests against him on day 1. AND WHAT A BABY, the DEM';s drag out his appointments for one day and he cries and Mitch cries while the GOP refused to fill the supreme court slot nine months out!!
24
They say they do unto others as they want others to do unto them.
Trump 45*
*This will never happen again
*Illegitimate
*Cosmic Joke
*End of the Republican Party
*This will never happen again
*Illegitimate
*Cosmic Joke
*End of the Republican Party
7
Next stop for Trump.....the US Court to answer to his violations...many
violations of the US Constitution....please cover the news...about these
charges...led by Harvard Law Professor...today.....this Mr.Brooks and Ms
Gail Collins is the news...not opinion...
We are sick of the spinners of facts at this point...Trump is a Liar..
Just say so.....take a deep breath...and with confidence say "Trump LIES"
and then look at the facts..yes do your journalistic HOMEWORK.....report
what is FACT...please...or leave the NYT..
violations of the US Constitution....please cover the news...about these
charges...led by Harvard Law Professor...today.....this Mr.Brooks and Ms
Gail Collins is the news...not opinion...
We are sick of the spinners of facts at this point...Trump is a Liar..
Just say so.....take a deep breath...and with confidence say "Trump LIES"
and then look at the facts..yes do your journalistic HOMEWORK.....report
what is FACT...please...or leave the NYT..
11
Filling those 100 banked empty federal judicial seats with sclerotic judges is Tea Party Objective Number One.
Gail, really, lose the GOP lobbyist before you lose me as a reader. This stuff is no longer funny.
43
They can justify anything.
Completely agree. Not funny. In fact, it is painful to read.
i am just asking is Rump now acceptable for a submission. seems like this is new thanks editorial staff and thanks Gemli.
1
Dear President Trump: I nominate Arthur Brooks as an immediate replacement for your press secretary. You won't be disappointed.
46
Really, Arthur? "The lowest point came when Madonna gave a speech to the cheering anti-Trump audience at the Women’s March. The content was so obscene that CSPAN had to apologize for airing it." When I read this I looked up the entire content of her speech. FYI, she dropped the FY-bomb twice. You call that, "so obscene?" Really? In 2017? Men say it all the time without charges of extreme obscenity. When The Narcissist-in-Chief bragged that he grabs any woman's pussy that he wants, THAT was obscene.
105
Can you imagine? Women have locker rooms too.
3
The most obscene and ignored comment is the scary "America First" mantra. Apparently neither Trump nor his supposedly Jewish son-in-law know anything about the original anti-Semitic America First Movement of the 30' and 40's.
2
Mr. Brooks is going to hurt himself reaching for the silver lining to everything trump says.
My favorite line: "At a moment when we should be celebrating the peaceful transfer of power, there’s almost no effort to unite on either side." Oh, you mean like the gop did with Obama? Tell me Mr. Brooks... how do you unite behind someone who consistently does not tell the truth? You may be able to contort to do that but the majority of Americans can't (and won't).
My favorite line: "At a moment when we should be celebrating the peaceful transfer of power, there’s almost no effort to unite on either side." Oh, you mean like the gop did with Obama? Tell me Mr. Brooks... how do you unite behind someone who consistently does not tell the truth? You may be able to contort to do that but the majority of Americans can't (and won't).
384
Makes one long for the days of W; on the one hand, W lied about WMDs so he could invade Iraq -- an 'alternative fact' that was proved false too late. But at least Bush defended all peace-loving Muslims from being smeared and tarred with the same brush as Islamic terrorists. Oh, for the good old days of a true Republican who respected diversity and preached tolerance....
What you both failed to address was the pathological lying that takes place in this administration. When Trump pushes Spicer out into the press room with demonstrably false statements, and then Spicer doubles down the next day when caught out by facts visible to everyone, it doesn't bode well for future trust in any information they present. Should we now trust in the unemployment figures ("They're beautiful! 0% unemployment!) they will present? Or the number of jobs Trump saved ("I'm amazing! I just forced XYZ Corp to bring back one million jobs!)? Or the number of terrorist attacks he prevented, single-handedly ("I'm tremendous! I kept America safe by stopping fifty, FIFTY, Muslim attacks yesterday! So now Muslims will all be banned!"). How? HOW are we supposed to know?!
231
Politicians lie. Obama was no different. The actions are to be watched so save your energy for the facts as this new presidency plays out.
"("They're beautiful! 0% unemployment!) they will present? Or the number of jobs Trump saved ("I'm amazing! I just forced XYZ Corp to bring back one million jobs!)?"
What's really horrific is that every one of your "satirical" statements attributed to this "administration", is likely to be made at some point or other.
What's really horrific is that every one of your "satirical" statements attributed to this "administration", is likely to be made at some point or other.
1
Agreed. Maybe the most depressing aspect of this very depressing conversation is that a very meticulous journalist and a right-wing think tank boss who claims to be a scholar didn't even mention the big subject of the past couple of days -- Trump's inability to handle the truth and how that will play out in coming weeks and months.
Why does everyone on the right pretend that Trump is a Conservative, or a politician, or a leader, or that he "won" anything? He got 90% of the white "poorly educated" vote, and 100% of the Deplorables, and still came up 3 million votes short in a country where only half the voters turn out. Given that he dragged angry pitchfork wielders out of their rural hamlets with his "inspiring" message of hate and exclusion, we have to assume the 50% that stayed home were NOT fans. So he has the support of 23% of eligible voters. After seeing the tape hearing the speeches and reading the tweets, it is simply not possible to be FOR this creep, no matter how much you hate "diversity"...
197
"After seeing the tape hearing the speeches and reading the tweets, it is simply not possible to be FOR this creep, no matter how much you hate "diversity"..."
"Creep-in-Chief" -- I think you hit on something there.
"Creep-in-Chief" -- I think you hit on something there.
1
The very first thing the GOP did in their first session of the new administration was to try and shut down the Ethics office in the dead of night. Then they rushed cabinet nominees through the process without the actual vetting they all required. So we can expect to see one Cabinet-level scandal after another this year, doubtless revolving around gigantic sums of (undeclared) money. So much for draining the swamp.
20
I don't like Arthur. He enables crazy old racist white billionaires by saying - "But he said one good thing."
Love of country? Why? Nationalism is the most dangerous thing in the world.
I love my family, etc., but my country? Why should I? I PAY taxes. That is my love for an institution which mostly does not speak for me.
Love of country? Why? Nationalism is the most dangerous thing in the world.
I love my family, etc., but my country? Why should I? I PAY taxes. That is my love for an institution which mostly does not speak for me.
7
Mr. Brooks - you were concerned about "vulgar signs" at the marches on Saturday?
At the risk of sounding like children accusing one another of "you started it" -- who do you think "started" the vulgarity that is now in our every day political discourse?
Please, stop treating Trump as if he is a normal president. There is nothing normal about him. Sexual assault. Self-delusions. Fraud. Russian interference in the election (but the only response from the "president" is praise for Putin).
I could go on and on ...
At the risk of sounding like children accusing one another of "you started it" -- who do you think "started" the vulgarity that is now in our every day political discourse?
Please, stop treating Trump as if he is a normal president. There is nothing normal about him. Sexual assault. Self-delusions. Fraud. Russian interference in the election (but the only response from the "president" is praise for Putin).
I could go on and on ...
433
And now that he has agreed to keep Comey on at FBI, and Pompeo arrives at CIA, get ready for more smoking guns about Russian interference and Trump campaign connections with same. Then be prepared for a nuclear version of the Saturday Night Massacre, as Comey and all under him get fired for refusing to call off the investigation. Then the only facts we get to know will be 'alternative facts'. And finally, it's just a short step to Sieg Heil and Heil Trump. Sad!
Glad to see someone besides me placing quotes around "president" when referring to dear leader.
1
No mention of continuing to lie? I'm glad the Times is using the word in its column headers.
9
Since Arthur found the Women's March to be 'menacing' and 'dystopian', I can only conclude that he has a Madonna fixation.
Sad.
Sad.
12
Done reading these columns of faux "dialogue." Collins asks sane questions, which Brooks dodges with almost the adeptness of a Conway.
28
I fail to understand how we don't make more of the fact that Trump went to the CIA--the CIA!!--which is tasked with the hard job of keeping us informed and safe, and in front of the wall of fallen agents complained that the press was being mean to him. What is he--eight? How are we not more embarassed about this?
18
Brooks wants to start with the most "unifying" part of Trump's rant. Is he speaking satire?
9
My many months of reading "The Conversation", in which you often made at least a modicum of sense, didn't prepare me for this. You're pandering--to Donald Trump, of all people.
Your cravenness here doesn't mark a yuge loss. It pales, of course, in comparison with what Trump's already cost us in the campaign and the four or so days since he took office--not to mention what he could cost us in the next four years.
But what you say here called to mind Speaker Thomas Brackett Reed's comment about his Congressional colleagues: "They never open their mouths without subtracting from the sum of human knowledge." If all we had to go by were this Conversation, the same could be said of you.
Your cravenness here doesn't mark a yuge loss. It pales, of course, in comparison with what Trump's already cost us in the campaign and the four or so days since he took office--not to mention what he could cost us in the next four years.
But what you say here called to mind Speaker Thomas Brackett Reed's comment about his Congressional colleagues: "They never open their mouths without subtracting from the sum of human knowledge." If all we had to go by were this Conversation, the same could be said of you.
13
Closest parallel: Andrew Jackson, who was also a populist sociopath and a bully. I'm a Democrat, and we've revered him, but we're learning not to.
2
Snowflakes. Sad.
4
I've decided that Donald Trump isn't succeeding Barack Obama as the President of the United States, much as that appears to be the case. No, he's succeeding Jefferson Davis as the President of the Confederate States of America. It took a while, but the South just won the Civil War.
Incidentally, if you read about Davis, he was apparently a great deal like Trump...
Incidentally, if you read about Davis, he was apparently a great deal like Trump...
5
In case you don't also get the Washington Post, "On Monday, the paperwork was filed with the federal government declaring officially that Jan. 20, 2017 — the day of Trump's inauguration — would officially be known as the “National Day of Patriotic Devotion.” Does this sound better in Russian?
24
How can anyone in the world believe what comes out of this buffoon's mouth when he lies to his own Congress?
11
The point here is that we're stuck at the news still being about words. Actions will speak louder, soon.
4
Check's in the mail!
1
Check's in the mail! :)
"Many different things might happen over the course of the Chump administration, but a drought of discussion topics doesn’t seem likely to be one of them." Nor will there be any less indication, after this column, that the drivel and Reaganite hopes Mr. Brooks keeps pushing, will relent either.
10
The problem is who's patriotism is this anyway: the "love it or leave it" crowd or the "let's make this place better" crowd. You may be able to unite a 330 million heterogenus populace against a clear and present enemy (for a short time with shared sacrifice). But, i have serious doubts if you can unite them around protectionism, isolationism, and lower taxes for the elite class you claim to despise. More jobs may work for awhile, but automation is going to win that war.
9
I read that Sen. Lindsay Graham is optimistic - says Trump can sit still and listen, and importantly, when he does, he learns.
Here hoping someone he trusts draws his attention to the real job killer - automation. One futurist puts it this way: the coming wave of job destruction will be on the scale of the entire industrial revolution, but in a timeframe equal to the life span of a beagle.
Here hoping someone he trusts draws his attention to the real job killer - automation. One futurist puts it this way: the coming wave of job destruction will be on the scale of the entire industrial revolution, but in a timeframe equal to the life span of a beagle.
8
Great job, Ms. Collins, you destroyed Arthur's arguments. When he said in one sentence that conservatives prefer administrators with experience and that liberals prefer people who know stuff -- or had experience governing, Mr. Brooks was doing the "alternate-logic" dance. "My experienced people are better than your experienced people -- and the people who know stuff, too". Hilarious and scary coming from a well-educated man pretending to be anti-elitist and oh-so-happy with the semi-literate Trump and his inexperienced cabinet. Can Arthur's words defend selecting Perry, Carson, Perry, Bannon, de Vos, Sessions, and Kellyanne-the-Cartoon?
You also nailed it when you said Trump had a myriad of inconsistent policy positions to choose from when his speech was being written -- and Mr. Brooks' love-song about "nationalism" was quickly seen as jingoism of the basest sort. Hitler did that better than most, and the result was a bloody mess.
Rarely has a conversation with Arthur been so funny or the parties so badly-mismatched. I think of "Mister Ed" or "Frances the Talking Mule" in "conversation" with a good-humored Jesuit-trained chess champion. Letting Arthur end with his equating of DT-The-Groper-Bully's election with Madonna's hyperbole about blowing up the White House made my day. Poor Arthur. He missed the silliness of his false equivalency: one holds nuclear Armageddon in his groping hands, and the other tries hard to keep a pointed bra on. A++, Gail. F-, Arthur.
A++
You also nailed it when you said Trump had a myriad of inconsistent policy positions to choose from when his speech was being written -- and Mr. Brooks' love-song about "nationalism" was quickly seen as jingoism of the basest sort. Hitler did that better than most, and the result was a bloody mess.
Rarely has a conversation with Arthur been so funny or the parties so badly-mismatched. I think of "Mister Ed" or "Frances the Talking Mule" in "conversation" with a good-humored Jesuit-trained chess champion. Letting Arthur end with his equating of DT-The-Groper-Bully's election with Madonna's hyperbole about blowing up the White House made my day. Poor Arthur. He missed the silliness of his false equivalency: one holds nuclear Armageddon in his groping hands, and the other tries hard to keep a pointed bra on. A++, Gail. F-, Arthur.
A++
153
I got so sick of Brooks that I couldn't finish reading the column. The comments are way better, and yours is the best so far.
1
I find it ridiculous that Arthur Brooks expresses shock and disgust at some of the signs and the message of some of the speakers at the Marches. The vulgar language, crass behavior and violence that was stirred up by Trump for the last year and a half continue to shock and appall all of us.
20
You said it. What glaring hypocrisy. Suddenly, true vulgarians are in the mood for "respect for the Presidency". I was in the mood for that for the last 8 years, through the ugliest racist, crazy, lunatic fringe group of Trump supporters gleefully happy in their shameful and untrue rants. They are lost in fake news, bibles and guns.
2
A naked desk.
Expressionless aides arrayed in silent sycophancy.
Leadership by wheeler-dealership:
Four more years.
Expressionless aides arrayed in silent sycophancy.
Leadership by wheeler-dealership:
Four more years.
3
Finally a President who is interested in building concensus across the aisle and leading and not his NCAA bracket or when the next tee time is. Trump accomplished more on his first day to dismantle Obama's paper thin legacy then we could have ever imagined. Supreme Court and Obama care next. Stay tuned. Good start.
1
Does Arthur and his party ever tire of defending and equalizing a characterless, most likely sociopathic con man? The man has a very clear personality disorder. He hasn't a clue of history, policy or the value in continuity on foreign policy. He's the anti-thinking, anti-reading man's idea of a leader, a dope whose mouth operates through his ego. He spends his days constructing defenses and plotting "wins". He's paranoid, and we're in trouble. Keep saying, Obama , Reagan, Bush, all had similar reactions. You're as lost as the folks in the rustbelt.
16
“The guy sitting behind me really messed up the country over the past eight years” is laughable. But then so is Brooks — in tone, style, and argument. Reading this is a reminder of how the establishment GOP practically begged for someone like DJT to come along and shove them aside. Oh, wait, I’m sorry Arthur — a précis of precisely the themes. Gail, I sympathize.
9
Duterte in the Philippines. Putin in Russia. Trump in America. One could slip Arthur's Orwellian nonsense speak in to coddle talk any of these fine fellows, it may be time for the conversation to move back to include a real conservative again.
15
Since our most revered, holy, balsamic oil-ointed, by God's almighty grace and the universe's golden tipping moment's callibration, the golden haired saviour decended from the towers in midtown to bestow mercy and infinite happiness upon us all, if only we finally realize that he is the incarnation of the anti-syntax of the sentence himself, just to be able to communte his extensive thought processes -which are soo plentyful that they change in milliseconds- with us, mere mortals. It was therefore necessary to implore the press yesterday to adopt a more befitting style of reverence to our gilded leader, whom we should be eternally grateful for, for having taking on the hardship to save us from ourselves
(and the Mexicans). Blasphemy of the gilded leader shall be a thing of the past, let us rejoice at the special day our orange heavenly gift has bestowed upon us:
"The National Day of Patriotic Devotion" Halleluja, can you hear the angels sing yet and the registers ring at Goldman Sachs?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/01/23/trump-na...
(and the Mexicans). Blasphemy of the gilded leader shall be a thing of the past, let us rejoice at the special day our orange heavenly gift has bestowed upon us:
"The National Day of Patriotic Devotion" Halleluja, can you hear the angels sing yet and the registers ring at Goldman Sachs?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/01/23/trump-na...
3
I used to love this bit of Gail chumming up with a conservative, but Arthur Brooks is not clever or interesting, just conservative. Yes, Madonna coopted the Women's March, but she was the exception and noone could hear here except on CSPAN. There were hundreds of thousands of people there, and they were supporting early childhood education for all Americans.
9
I don't know. I have seen some terrible things wrapped in flag waving "patriotism" from those who claim it for themselves. You only need to go back to those recordings from Trump rallies to see that this brand of "patriotism" might look like.
And there is a difference in the call for patriotism such as JFK did and the undertones of nationalism from Trump reminiscent of another German leader demanding fealty.
And there is a difference in the call for patriotism such as JFK did and the undertones of nationalism from Trump reminiscent of another German leader demanding fealty.
16
The White House's website is not available in Spanish anymore. Is that related to the fantasy that illegal aliens, voted illegally against Trump? The new President keeps talking "alternative facts" and does not get over the fact that the elections were held last November.
10
The elephant in the room is that Trump is not playing the part of the professional wrestler, that is who he is. He might have multiple personas, but DJT the eye gouger/groin kicker is now playing at the Oval Office, and the show will continue for 4 or 8 years.
4
and why shouldn't we be locked down as a nation. we have just witnessed 8 years of obstinate behavior from the others. others being a almost extinct mammal. yeah why should we be turning the other cheek. is that not the line christians and pretenders to religion always use. excuse me but your speaking partner has my permission to teach you humility and humanity.
6
gotta put love of country first. great. after 8 years of republican hatred for President Obama we now are instructed to remember patriotism. unbelievable.
34
The Brooks Bros. (in consciousness) Arthur and David are both so upset about Saturday's march. I know its not good but I can't say more without laughing. Not a mocking laugh or ridiculing laugh but a sad very pained laugh. Or something like that. We are in deep trouble. And this is what they talk about. For reasons that are bewildering to me I expect something more from them.
Gail Collins is always arguing to the right of her. She sounds way to complacent. A conversation between Gail and any of those dynamic radical poetic profound spectacular demonstrators who don't feel nearly as confined and constricted as Gail would be far more interesting and fruitful and dynamic. And much more challenging in a very good way.
Gail Collins is always arguing to the right of her. She sounds way to complacent. A conversation between Gail and any of those dynamic radical poetic profound spectacular demonstrators who don't feel nearly as confined and constricted as Gail would be far more interesting and fruitful and dynamic. And much more challenging in a very good way.
11
Can't believe mr. Brooks reaction to the huge protest marches is to complain about vulgar signs. Man, you are almost as out of touch as trump is to women's issues. Gail, you needed to set him straight during this exchange. All other sub topics aside, electing a self-professed serial abuser who has zero interest in civil rights and cares only about his whittle bruised ego is a big deal to a lot of people, and madonnas outrage and some "vulgar" signs are not the takeaway from the largest protests ever. Period (sounds spicey?).
297
I heard the huge women's march on Sunday, from a policeman on duty, that he was amazed. After years of working this sort of gathering, this was the most well behaved of all.
The other thing is the window breaking occured during inauguration day, and why would Latte-sipping liberals break windows at Starbuck, apparently the liberal icon. it appears? Maybe it was those opposed to liberals who smashed wth windows at the cafe?
The other thing is the window breaking occured during inauguration day, and why would Latte-sipping liberals break windows at Starbuck, apparently the liberal icon. it appears? Maybe it was those opposed to liberals who smashed wth windows at the cafe?
1
"I’ve never heard an Inaugural Address where I liked every rhetorical turn or policy suggestion, and this was no exception. But I wasn’t at all surprised by the president’s speech."
This, as only an example, is why I've grown bored of this conversation—not that it lacks interesting discussion of important matters, but that Mr. Brooks just can't bring himself to write a particular, even minor, criticism of his side; he needs to make general semi-negative statements of both sides. When he's critical of the other side, Ms. Collins is thoughtful enough (and big enough) to say, for instance, "Obviously I don’t defend the window smashers." See how easy that is? Not a lot, but a bit of a concession to show she's leaning over, trying to see the point.
But no. Mr. Brooks ignores substantial flaws in Trump, and the right in general, and carries on about Madonna, as if her momentary vulgarity as one celebrity among many can be measured on the same scale as Trump's countless vulgarities speaking as the President of the United States of American and, if we can still hope, the leader of the free world.
C'mon, Mr. Brooks. Show us you can be serious. Do you really imagine we don't suppose there are characteristics that trouble you about your preferred choice of leader? Because, if you truly don't believe there are, we need a better partner for this conversation.
This, as only an example, is why I've grown bored of this conversation—not that it lacks interesting discussion of important matters, but that Mr. Brooks just can't bring himself to write a particular, even minor, criticism of his side; he needs to make general semi-negative statements of both sides. When he's critical of the other side, Ms. Collins is thoughtful enough (and big enough) to say, for instance, "Obviously I don’t defend the window smashers." See how easy that is? Not a lot, but a bit of a concession to show she's leaning over, trying to see the point.
But no. Mr. Brooks ignores substantial flaws in Trump, and the right in general, and carries on about Madonna, as if her momentary vulgarity as one celebrity among many can be measured on the same scale as Trump's countless vulgarities speaking as the President of the United States of American and, if we can still hope, the leader of the free world.
C'mon, Mr. Brooks. Show us you can be serious. Do you really imagine we don't suppose there are characteristics that trouble you about your preferred choice of leader? Because, if you truly don't believe there are, we need a better partner for this conversation.
499
"Because, if you truly don't believe there are, we need a better partner for this conversation."
Someone not named Brooks.
Both of them are just plain blind.
Someone not named Brooks.
Both of them are just plain blind.
"Because, if you truly don't believe there are, we need a better partner for this conversation."; couldn't have put it better.......
You saved me the time and effort of writing a comment. I couldn't have expressed it any better. The whole time I was reading this column I was thinking, about Brooks, "There isn't one thing about Trump that bothers you?"
I used to be a conservative, but one of the reasons I became a liberal was when the conservatives decided that only certain people are 'real' Americans, only certain acts count as patriotism, and you can love your country only if you follow the party line. My family has been here since the 1600's and I will not let anyone tell me how to be an American nor how to love my country.
391
Yeah, me too, although a tour in Vietnam caused me to wake up and my family has only been here since the 1700s. I'm a combat veteran and fear for my country in ways I can't believe. I hope that many who supported Trump will have a similar waking moment. Otherwise, it does not look rosy for the 90%.
Amen. When elected Republicans and right-wing media types said that you were not a true American if you opposed our attacking Iraq or if you disagreed with any of their policies, I finally understood that there could never be common ground between me and them. Compromise with folks who could hold that mindset is not possible. Mr. Brooks needs you to feel you are wrong if you vow to oppose those people, wrong because you use rude words and wear pink things and Mr. Trump promises he really loves the CIA.
But when they rhetorically revoked my citizenship and Mr. Brooks and others didn't step up to make them retract their words, I realized that the United States of America as a collective idea was damaged, possibly fatally. I've no idea what the future holds, except that if they are in power, it is, by their own logic, not legitimate because, by their own logic, they are not truly Americans.
But when they rhetorically revoked my citizenship and Mr. Brooks and others didn't step up to make them retract their words, I realized that the United States of America as a collective idea was damaged, possibly fatally. I've no idea what the future holds, except that if they are in power, it is, by their own logic, not legitimate because, by their own logic, they are not truly Americans.
Look Trump has deep emotional issues-we all know that. I think he knows that.
He is not all the stable. I don't and most people don't think he is running off pushing the nuke buttons. But his continuous focus on how big his numbers are is very disturbing. He is obsessed and controlled by the inner need for continuous self gratification. He is controlled by this. All his prior years of doing it has become part of his DNA. He cannot and probably never will let it go.
His speech to the CIA in front of the fallen stars where he lauded himself about how big his win was and how big the crowd was-when all knew it was false is a clear example. Yesterday at a meeting with the House Members he did the same thing. He lied to their faces about how many illegals voted-clearly untrue-yet he did it. He cannot see when it comes to his "self" the difference between true or falsity nor does he care. He tries to use his force of personality to convince you that he is right even if he is clearly wrong. Hitler did this and the people around him just stood there and did nothing. I am not saying he is anything like Hitler but the symptoms are the same. Not one House Member at that meeting called him out. They just sat there and took the verbal beating. This man will and will continue to act the same way. A lot of damage can be done to our country by this man and frankly no advise of his will stand in his way. We are in for a long and cold winter that will last at least 4 years.
He is not all the stable. I don't and most people don't think he is running off pushing the nuke buttons. But his continuous focus on how big his numbers are is very disturbing. He is obsessed and controlled by the inner need for continuous self gratification. He is controlled by this. All his prior years of doing it has become part of his DNA. He cannot and probably never will let it go.
His speech to the CIA in front of the fallen stars where he lauded himself about how big his win was and how big the crowd was-when all knew it was false is a clear example. Yesterday at a meeting with the House Members he did the same thing. He lied to their faces about how many illegals voted-clearly untrue-yet he did it. He cannot see when it comes to his "self" the difference between true or falsity nor does he care. He tries to use his force of personality to convince you that he is right even if he is clearly wrong. Hitler did this and the people around him just stood there and did nothing. I am not saying he is anything like Hitler but the symptoms are the same. Not one House Member at that meeting called him out. They just sat there and took the verbal beating. This man will and will continue to act the same way. A lot of damage can be done to our country by this man and frankly no advise of his will stand in his way. We are in for a long and cold winter that will last at least 4 years.
212
I've noticed how people smile and clap when Trump is around. Even at the CIA meeting and the Democratic cabinet. Even after he trashed 4 presidents sitting behind him at the inauguration. Today I listened to a silver haired conservative with a lizards smile telling me to get out of my bubble and stop being oppositional. I thought the whole idea of Democracy was to have an opposition to debate differences?
64
Your analysis is well-taken. The problem is that we do not really know Trump just as we really don't know anyone who becomes President. The office is bigger than the man and moulds whoever is there. Under pressures he cannot imagine, Trump could either see himself as benevolent or as the victim of massive unfairness that no amount of follower-love can make up for. Ultimately it will be an insider who sees and sounds the alarm if the worst occurs.
Members of the CIA who had the misfortune to attend Trump's insulting absurd performance on Saturday were not the people who were clapping. That is fact: attested to by actual real CIA people who were there, in that hallowed space, in front of the muted stars of their honored colleagues fallen in duty to protect Americans. Do you really think they would clap as he rambled on about himself: this man who has never served in any branch of our military, never sacrificed anything for anyone else? Just as at his first press conference as president elect, and Spicer's horrendous performances at his opening presscons, Trump family members, Kellyanne and other "plants" were the people who clapped. Sad and pathetic that a new president is so emotionally crippled that his & his team's first days are DEFINED by lies, misrepresentations, distortions and his naked need to contort the truth despite massive undeniable evidence to the contrary. We knew he was petty and vindictive, divisive and inflammatory, manipulative and corrupt. But we are only now beginning to understand the profound depths of his inadequacies, the enormity of his sick need for love and adulation, the insatiable appetite for credibility and respect he will never earn.
7
It is astonishing how Trump apologists are so self-righteous in their disdain for those who are not so "civil" as to give up their Constitutional rights to free speech. In case Mr. Brooks has forgotten, it was Trump and his alt-right friends who tossed the rule books away in their race to the bottom.
As for the Steve Bannon inaugural speech, we can only harken back to the "good old days" circa 1933 for such inspired calls for loyalty to nation at the expense of principles. There was nothing in this speech to engage those not blinded by Trump's ego or anyone who would dare call into question the legitimacy of his "magnificent" victory.
Finally, It is unclear why anyone could seriously believe that Trump would pivot to rationality or sanity. The character flaws were obvious from inception; hence the refrain that he was unfit to be president. Unfortunately, the obvious was ignored by those deluded enough to project their hopes into a vessel that may have appeared empty but was already topped off with endless narcissistic bloat. Hope is not a plan and talk without thought is not policy. Ms. Collins' despair is perfectly understandable.
As for the Steve Bannon inaugural speech, we can only harken back to the "good old days" circa 1933 for such inspired calls for loyalty to nation at the expense of principles. There was nothing in this speech to engage those not blinded by Trump's ego or anyone who would dare call into question the legitimacy of his "magnificent" victory.
Finally, It is unclear why anyone could seriously believe that Trump would pivot to rationality or sanity. The character flaws were obvious from inception; hence the refrain that he was unfit to be president. Unfortunately, the obvious was ignored by those deluded enough to project their hopes into a vessel that may have appeared empty but was already topped off with endless narcissistic bloat. Hope is not a plan and talk without thought is not policy. Ms. Collins' despair is perfectly understandable.
14
As much as I cannot stomach the thought of "President Pence," the last week has made me think it is already time to invoke the 25th Amendment. Trump seems to be pretty clearly detached from reality and living in a work of "alternative facts."
2
Brooks's contribution to this dialogue strikes me as another example of someone creating false equivalences. He equates the misbehavior of a small number of demonstrators on Friday and the presence of a few inappropriate signs of Saturday with the savage behavior of a president who spent an entire campaign attacking women and minorities. Trump organized his entire campaign around divisive themes, but Brooks holds both parties equally responsible for polarization. If someone responds to my vicious attacks on his integrity and worth with a defense of his own character, then in Brooks's view we share responsibility for the resulting conflict.
As president, Trump sets the tone for his administration and bears considerable responsibility for the quality of political discourse in this country. Mr. Obama sharply criticized Republicans for their opposition to his agenda, but he never engaged in the kind of personal invective typical of Trump. Nor would he ever have delivered the kind of brutally nationalistic speech, complete with raised fist, that served as his successor's statement of intentions for his administration.
Brooks's attempt to drag Trump's opponents down to his level demonstrates rather clearly that even a conservative has difficulty crafting a positive defense of the new president.
As president, Trump sets the tone for his administration and bears considerable responsibility for the quality of political discourse in this country. Mr. Obama sharply criticized Republicans for their opposition to his agenda, but he never engaged in the kind of personal invective typical of Trump. Nor would he ever have delivered the kind of brutally nationalistic speech, complete with raised fist, that served as his successor's statement of intentions for his administration.
Brooks's attempt to drag Trump's opponents down to his level demonstrates rather clearly that even a conservative has difficulty crafting a positive defense of the new president.
15
Okay, I’ve seen enough.
We have someone with a serious mental illness controlling our nuclear weapons.
It’s time for Republicans to begin impeachment proceedings — immediately.
Narcissistic Personality Disorder is characterized by:
A grandiose logic of self-importance
A fixation with fantasies of infinite success, control, brilliance, beauty, or idyllic love
A credence that he or she is extraordinary and exceptional and can only be understood by, or should connect with, other extraordinary or important people or institutions
A desire for unwarranted admiration
A sense of entitlement
Interpersonally oppressive behavior
No form of empathy
Resentment of others or a conviction that others are resentful of him or her
I suppose some might suggest that Trump’s pathological lying is not a symptom of a disease, but a cunning strategy to distract from his real goal — the transfer of enormous wealth into his offshore accounts.
Signing an order declaring his day of inauguration is a "National Day of Patriotic Devotion" is either (a) right out of the Narcissist's handbook, or (b) right out of the Communist Propaganda handbook.
Let’s find out whether Trump is a nut or a mole later.
For now, the President should be escorted to his DC hotel and left to stare at his reflection in a thousand lobby mirrors while the grownups can get back to work and figure out how to pay for his healthcare.
We have someone with a serious mental illness controlling our nuclear weapons.
It’s time for Republicans to begin impeachment proceedings — immediately.
Narcissistic Personality Disorder is characterized by:
A grandiose logic of self-importance
A fixation with fantasies of infinite success, control, brilliance, beauty, or idyllic love
A credence that he or she is extraordinary and exceptional and can only be understood by, or should connect with, other extraordinary or important people or institutions
A desire for unwarranted admiration
A sense of entitlement
Interpersonally oppressive behavior
No form of empathy
Resentment of others or a conviction that others are resentful of him or her
I suppose some might suggest that Trump’s pathological lying is not a symptom of a disease, but a cunning strategy to distract from his real goal — the transfer of enormous wealth into his offshore accounts.
Signing an order declaring his day of inauguration is a "National Day of Patriotic Devotion" is either (a) right out of the Narcissist's handbook, or (b) right out of the Communist Propaganda handbook.
Let’s find out whether Trump is a nut or a mole later.
For now, the President should be escorted to his DC hotel and left to stare at his reflection in a thousand lobby mirrors while the grownups can get back to work and figure out how to pay for his healthcare.
7
Arthur: "Conservatives generally place a high premium on business success and executive-level management experience, where prior success usually tracks with hefty salaries."
Someday Americans (not GOP) will get over this infatuation with business and the so-called business model. President Trump may be just the one to pull back the curtain on (1) why businessmen do not make good Presidents, and (2) why the American business model may have its place in running profit-making enterprises, but works against the values of Enlightenment, good government, fairness, balance, truth, and all the people
1. According to many surveys, the top ranked U.S. Presidents are always Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Franklin and Teddy Roosevelt, Wilson and Truman. The first 5 were not businessmen, while Truman was a failed businessman but good President. The lowest ranked Presidents in the 20th & 21st centuries are Hoover, Coolidge, George W. Bush and Harding—all of whom were businessmen.
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/campaign/298724-businessmen-includ...
Therefore, it is a myth/propaganda that those with business experience make the best presidents—quite the opposite actually.
2. Why businessmen do not make good presidents may be because the self-serving values of the business model (profit, market share, minimize costs to max profits, ads & truth-bending, etc.) are incompatible with the needs and values of enlightened government & the common good.
Someday Americans (not GOP) will get over this infatuation with business and the so-called business model. President Trump may be just the one to pull back the curtain on (1) why businessmen do not make good Presidents, and (2) why the American business model may have its place in running profit-making enterprises, but works against the values of Enlightenment, good government, fairness, balance, truth, and all the people
1. According to many surveys, the top ranked U.S. Presidents are always Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Franklin and Teddy Roosevelt, Wilson and Truman. The first 5 were not businessmen, while Truman was a failed businessman but good President. The lowest ranked Presidents in the 20th & 21st centuries are Hoover, Coolidge, George W. Bush and Harding—all of whom were businessmen.
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/campaign/298724-businessmen-includ...
Therefore, it is a myth/propaganda that those with business experience make the best presidents—quite the opposite actually.
2. Why businessmen do not make good presidents may be because the self-serving values of the business model (profit, market share, minimize costs to max profits, ads & truth-bending, etc.) are incompatible with the needs and values of enlightened government & the common good.
19
At last, a balanced Gail Collins opinion page. Usually Gail is unhinged and so far left scientists again speculate that the world is flat and at the end of the left edge she would fall off. I can still remember the "opinion" citing Hillarys childhood, the word pandering comes to mind but it must have been love. The swamp can be conceptualized very simply. Lobbyists who put money into the pockets of our elected officials and our elected officials who accept these payments. Simple. Draining, not simple.
2
Patriotism is for scoundrels. I am a humanist.
Trump is poison to confidence of all kinds. The whole economy is starting to ice over from the enablement of this psychopath.
Trump is poison to confidence of all kinds. The whole economy is starting to ice over from the enablement of this psychopath.
9
No, it is NOT "that simple."
You are utterly minimizing the fact that Trump's total disregard for norms and his total lack of respect for institutional limits on the Presidency comprise a genuinely threat to our government. His speech highlighted just how Messianic he envisions himself and just how he intends to keep pushing a narrative of America in a hellscape to justify his continued "smash everything in sight" approach.
My fear is built only partially on policy, which I expect to oppose. It is built upon concerns I share with conservatives with principles who also recognize Trump's danger. You might want to consider that.
You are utterly minimizing the fact that Trump's total disregard for norms and his total lack of respect for institutional limits on the Presidency comprise a genuinely threat to our government. His speech highlighted just how Messianic he envisions himself and just how he intends to keep pushing a narrative of America in a hellscape to justify his continued "smash everything in sight" approach.
My fear is built only partially on policy, which I expect to oppose. It is built upon concerns I share with conservatives with principles who also recognize Trump's danger. You might want to consider that.
5
Our country is just now in the beginning stages of a great national emergency which may take decades to fully overcome.
Now would be an appropriate time for the Times to replace its antiquated slogan (“All the News That’s Fit to Print”) with one more fitting to the seriousness of our situation.
Luckily, there is already one available that would be perfectly fit to print:
"As democracy is perfected, the office of the president represents more and more closely the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and complete narcissistic moron.” — H.L. Mencken, The Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920.
Now would be an appropriate time for the Times to replace its antiquated slogan (“All the News That’s Fit to Print”) with one more fitting to the seriousness of our situation.
Luckily, there is already one available that would be perfectly fit to print:
"As democracy is perfected, the office of the president represents more and more closely the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and complete narcissistic moron.” — H.L. Mencken, The Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920.
6
Trump had Congressional leaders to the White House and continued to harp on the blatant falsehoods that millions of illegal votes cost him the popular vote and that his inauguration was the most largely attended of all time.
Congressional leaders, like business leaders, are going to have to figure out how to function in an environment where America's chief executive is mentally ill. Good luck with that.
Congressional leaders, like business leaders, are going to have to figure out how to function in an environment where America's chief executive is mentally ill. Good luck with that.
7
"Both the Friday inauguration and Saturday’s march displayed some of our finest political traditions. But around Washington, both events felt more menacing and dystopian than joyful or patriotic."
The inauguration seemed menacing and dystopian. I was at the march in Seneca Falls on Saturday. It was anything but. There were a few rude signs, but most were not; my personal favorite was "Make America Think Again." The town was jammed and the marchers were joyful and peaceful. The loudest shouts I heard were "This is what democracy looks like." The speakers were not virulently anti-Trump and no one suggested locking him up. Instead, the focus was how to move forward with a progressive agenda, coupled with a caution that human rights, and women's rights, were hard- fought and should never be taken them for granted. And unlike Friday in Washington, the sun really was shining.
The inauguration seemed menacing and dystopian. I was at the march in Seneca Falls on Saturday. It was anything but. There were a few rude signs, but most were not; my personal favorite was "Make America Think Again." The town was jammed and the marchers were joyful and peaceful. The loudest shouts I heard were "This is what democracy looks like." The speakers were not virulently anti-Trump and no one suggested locking him up. Instead, the focus was how to move forward with a progressive agenda, coupled with a caution that human rights, and women's rights, were hard- fought and should never be taken them for granted. And unlike Friday in Washington, the sun really was shining.
9
I was at the march in Washington on Saturday. There was nothing dystopian about it. It was inspiring and energizing. Normally I hate crowds, but by the end of the day I loved everyone there.
2
It's important to point out the kind of propaganda Brooks uses. Remember that he is part of an anti-progressive reactionary political machine established by Goldwater, with the stated purpose of destroying everything the New Deal brought us. Now listen:
"At a moment when we should be celebrating the peaceful transfer of power..."
Think about how dishonest this statement is, and its corrosive goal. Brooks manufactures out of the air a phantom in order to implant a lie in the reader's mind: that our history is fraught with difficult transfers of power, and so we should be "celebrating" that we haven't fallen into, I suppose, a new civil war. Above all else this non-thing is the most important thing. In the very next paragraph he then talks about protesters and broken windows, completing the fascist hook: we've barely escaped the loss of our country in the always rocky and dangerous election of a president, and we should be celebrating the fact that society-smashing protesters (read: non-Trumpers, ie. Liberals) didn't get a chance to buy your kid a pizza, wink wink.
The GOP has, explicitly, worked to undermine the presidency and one of its operatives is being given a soapbox in the NY Times. Corruption indeed. Need I pull up quotes? Instead, I'll leave the reader with real journalism, a precise counterpoint to this sipping-chianti and chortling in your offices in the sky while allowing propaganda to be presented as reality: http://wapo.st/1O7ZYjM
"At a moment when we should be celebrating the peaceful transfer of power..."
Think about how dishonest this statement is, and its corrosive goal. Brooks manufactures out of the air a phantom in order to implant a lie in the reader's mind: that our history is fraught with difficult transfers of power, and so we should be "celebrating" that we haven't fallen into, I suppose, a new civil war. Above all else this non-thing is the most important thing. In the very next paragraph he then talks about protesters and broken windows, completing the fascist hook: we've barely escaped the loss of our country in the always rocky and dangerous election of a president, and we should be celebrating the fact that society-smashing protesters (read: non-Trumpers, ie. Liberals) didn't get a chance to buy your kid a pizza, wink wink.
The GOP has, explicitly, worked to undermine the presidency and one of its operatives is being given a soapbox in the NY Times. Corruption indeed. Need I pull up quotes? Instead, I'll leave the reader with real journalism, a precise counterpoint to this sipping-chianti and chortling in your offices in the sky while allowing propaganda to be presented as reality: http://wapo.st/1O7ZYjM
4
Jerry,
I am, I suppose, as conservative as you are liberal, but I, too, thought Mr. Brooks' sleight of hand suggestion regarding the "peaceful transfer of power" was nonsense. I have seen this same comment be made by others on the right in the last few days so I assume that it must be thought a handy justification that appeals to conservative pundits. Liberals, of course, have their own themes of the moment (Do we need more mentions of Hitler or Germany in 1933?).
It would be great to read an honest, nonpropagandistic discussion of the new administration, but I have yet to find one. Everyone is justifying themselves while denouncing their opponents. Perhaps this will subside as time goes on or, worse yet, as a common enemy to our nation arises (insert reference to Germany in the '40s, Russia in the '50s, China in the '60s, etc. here).
I am, I suppose, as conservative as you are liberal, but I, too, thought Mr. Brooks' sleight of hand suggestion regarding the "peaceful transfer of power" was nonsense. I have seen this same comment be made by others on the right in the last few days so I assume that it must be thought a handy justification that appeals to conservative pundits. Liberals, of course, have their own themes of the moment (Do we need more mentions of Hitler or Germany in 1933?).
It would be great to read an honest, nonpropagandistic discussion of the new administration, but I have yet to find one. Everyone is justifying themselves while denouncing their opponents. Perhaps this will subside as time goes on or, worse yet, as a common enemy to our nation arises (insert reference to Germany in the '40s, Russia in the '50s, China in the '60s, etc. here).
President Trump's inaugural speech was just fine and he told the truth. If some choose not to believe the truth, that is their problem. Before inauguration President Trump got more accomplished than Obama did in eight years. President Trump is a high energy get things accomplished type of person. If the NY Times continues to nit-pik every move and continually verbally assault our new president, they will find the next four years very long. When socialist democrats act continually like children the republicans ignore them and know we are right. Keep up the childish behavior and your party will disappear.
Sorry, just choked on my coffee at your fantasy that Donald Trump "told the truth" during his inauguration speech. As the rest of us already know, if Trump's breathing, he's lying. Just ask the billions of people who didn't show up for his inauguration.
2
Madonna gets salty and conservatives clutch their pearls in shock. Candidate Trump boasts about committing sexual assault in terms that would not get past the moderator of these comments, and conservatives vote for him. Go figure.
1005
Madonna should have written out a few checks for the several womens homeless shelters in the DC area, but instead chose to blow up the white house in her phony British accent prose. As far as pearls go, Hillary must own the largest pearl necklaces in the world which she was forbidden to wear to avoid any self-inflicted wounds. So what. Unfortunately the real issues were not much covered by the press, just this B.S.
Tea party signs saying Kill Obama or chants of Lock her up are OK to these people but a little talk of arson and they are apoplectic.
3
Maybe she should run for president. I know she worked her way up on her own, unlike the other non-politician.
2
It is interesting how guys like Arthur Brooks use long lists of things to make a point. It is an attempt to fool the listener by implicitly saying, "Here is a list of things, maybe one or two are wrong or exaggerated, but it is such a long list that some of it must be true."
So let's have a look here:
1) "To my ear, the basic promises were these: The guy sitting behind me really messed up the country over the past eight years and I’m going to reverse his policies."
He actually did a very good job, and we are in good shape to move ahead further.
2) " Elites have been ripping off ordinary Americans and will get their comeuppance."
Yes they have. But Trump's folks are going to give them tax breaks on top of it all.
3) " I’m going to protect American jobs by any means necessary and will always put our interests first."
Job growth was great under Obama, under horrible conditions left over by Republicans. And what if our interest in our environment conflicts with some jobs -- that is one of the many questions here.
4) " Radical Islamic terrorists are about to take a huge beating."
They are already taking a beating. Let's stop creating more terrorists.
5) "We’re going to secure our border."
We are and will continue doing this, with or without Trump.
6) "prior success usually tracks with hefty salaries."
Are you dealing in alternative facts here?
Gail, don't let him sneak these lists by you. By not responding to them, it seems as though you accept them.
So let's have a look here:
1) "To my ear, the basic promises were these: The guy sitting behind me really messed up the country over the past eight years and I’m going to reverse his policies."
He actually did a very good job, and we are in good shape to move ahead further.
2) " Elites have been ripping off ordinary Americans and will get their comeuppance."
Yes they have. But Trump's folks are going to give them tax breaks on top of it all.
3) " I’m going to protect American jobs by any means necessary and will always put our interests first."
Job growth was great under Obama, under horrible conditions left over by Republicans. And what if our interest in our environment conflicts with some jobs -- that is one of the many questions here.
4) " Radical Islamic terrorists are about to take a huge beating."
They are already taking a beating. Let's stop creating more terrorists.
5) "We’re going to secure our border."
We are and will continue doing this, with or without Trump.
6) "prior success usually tracks with hefty salaries."
Are you dealing in alternative facts here?
Gail, don't let him sneak these lists by you. By not responding to them, it seems as though you accept them.
606
Moving the embassy to Jerusalem will not unite our country, it will unite the Arab world against us. And I get that, they deserve to hate us.
1
I stopped reading the piece early on. I found it tendentious and largely useless. Just saying. I find comments generally more enlightening.
6) "prior success usually tracks with hefty salaries."
That's actually true to a reasonable degree... but of course success often depends on who you are connected with and who you are connected with often depends - especially early-on - on the wealth and connections of your parents.
That's actually true to a reasonable degree... but of course success often depends on who you are connected with and who you are connected with often depends - especially early-on - on the wealth and connections of your parents.
I love my country for what it can do and has done for its citizens, myself included. However, I do not love it above all others ("uber alles"). That is jingoism. The farther we go down that path, the closer we come to a society which marginalizes, oppresses or even exterminates others. I am where I am because I got a good deal in the celestial lottery, not because I deserve it or because it is my manifest destiny. We all need to take a breath and realize when looking at other countries and other peoples, as is always true, there but for the grace of God go I.
385
Many other countries , Canada for instance, have wonderful democracies . in In fact they wonder how it is possible that we have the archaic and clearly undemocratic Electoral College determining the outcome of an election. We should all remember than twice in less than 20 years the person who won more votes for president was considered the loser and their (Republican) opponents were put in the White House by the Electoral College. Back in the Dark Ages when I was studying Political Science in Canada we were taught that the Electoral College was put in place to protect Landowners (& that would include slave owners in the south) from putting in office a person who would not have their moneyed interests at heart. Do you really think any other western democracy envies this foolishness????
2
trump has already begun the extermination of Native Americans with today's decisions on the Dakota Pipeline, which carries Canadian oil, not American oil, and has been invested in by trump and others of his gang. He's a liar and an opportunist, who will destroy the United States for his profit. NOT a president. Never trump.
3
What a beautiful, sobering, humble, thoughtful, important point. Thank you, Doug Mc.
1
Jeezey Peexey, Ms. Collins - yes, we have a Trump as our 45th President and the photo of him in the Oval Office wasn't photoshopped. We the people who didn't vote for Trump, didn't want him to be elected and now must stand by and watch him smash our democracy to smithereens, are angry. Trump's Inaugural speech was scary as goblins and couldn't hold a candle to President Obama's two Inaugural addresses. Trump's agenda is as horrific as his lies and promises for the past 17 months that secured him the vote and support of low-info alt-right "Make America Great Again" red-hatted phalanxes. And yes, he has surrounded himself with millionaires and billionaires in his swamp of a cabinet - elite plutocrats with no idea how to govern. And we've seen no amity to speak of since The Donald was elected. Disunity, disharmony, hateful bigotry, Xenophobia, misogyny and dread reign. President Trump's administration will be a brief one (liberal lips to God's ear) or 4 years of continuing slams and cons, scams and promises made but not kept and those same ol' same ol' lies from the new occupier of the Oval Office Time willtell, and we shall see.
270
"Lions and tigers and bears, oh my", and now flying monkeys. If you are looking for hate look no further than your own prose. The NYT continues to select the most hatefull comments for their picks? One of Hillarys more prominent mistakes during her campaign was to refer to those who would dare disagree with her as mixologist, bigots, basket of depolrables. Keep going everyone. In 2 years the Republicans will own the Senate and House.
1
A million recommends! You said it all; no need for me to comment.
1
Brooks makes reference to conservative's admiration of business people and their talents as managers and yet T rump has not or cannot fill the thousands of mid level to to level managers of the various agencies in our government.
As of now, we basically do not have a functioning government.
As of now, we basically do not have a functioning government.
1
"My biggest worry is not wealthy cabinet secretaries, but the mutual contempt that is still dominating our discourse. At a moment when we should be celebrating the peaceful transfer of power, there’s almost no effort to unite on either side."
Mr. Brooks, I am a American. I believe in democracy. I believe in honesty. In equality of opportunity. There will be no effort from me at uniting behind a pathological liar & traitor who sees our country only as something to exploit for his own psychological needs and financial gain. And I will "unite" with those oligarch appointees when I have as much of a voice in government as any one of them.
Mr. Brooks, I am a American. I believe in democracy. I believe in honesty. In equality of opportunity. There will be no effort from me at uniting behind a pathological liar & traitor who sees our country only as something to exploit for his own psychological needs and financial gain. And I will "unite" with those oligarch appointees when I have as much of a voice in government as any one of them.
664
I can just see Trmp in the oval, saying
"OK, google, on my desk
who's the smartest? who's the best?"
At least he can't break the mirror if it tells him other than what he wants to hear.
This is a man with a pathological need for adulation, devoid of humor, incapable of humility, a man who vacuums the dignity out of every place he goes, like the CIA for instance. He (and his press secretary) are whining about being mocked, while he made mocking an art. POW's, KIA's, purple hearts, women, facts, the handicapped and disabled, the same CIA he now loves so much, anyone in or out of his party that he momentarily disagrees with, he's mocked them all, and done so in the voice of a 12 year old schoolyard bully. He no doubt believes he could shoot someone and get away with it, and given his past (and present) associates, he may have. As I've said before, he lacks a compass and and anchor, he drifts on the ever changing tides of his shallow thinking, unmoored from conventional reality.
"OK, google, on my desk
who's the smartest? who's the best?"
At least he can't break the mirror if it tells him other than what he wants to hear.
This is a man with a pathological need for adulation, devoid of humor, incapable of humility, a man who vacuums the dignity out of every place he goes, like the CIA for instance. He (and his press secretary) are whining about being mocked, while he made mocking an art. POW's, KIA's, purple hearts, women, facts, the handicapped and disabled, the same CIA he now loves so much, anyone in or out of his party that he momentarily disagrees with, he's mocked them all, and done so in the voice of a 12 year old schoolyard bully. He no doubt believes he could shoot someone and get away with it, and given his past (and present) associates, he may have. As I've said before, he lacks a compass and and anchor, he drifts on the ever changing tides of his shallow thinking, unmoored from conventional reality.
3
Wow, you just proved you own point. "How sad".
Agreed. I am a white, suburban 1%er, and after the campaign Trump ran, I cannot ever support him. I am a moderate who is being driven left by the hypocrisy of the Republicans and the backwards looking focus of the Trump administration.
1
It's a shame, but not surprising, that Arthur Brooks has such a problem with obscenity-laden, disrespectful speeches by celebrities.
But now he knows how many of the women who attended the marches must feel.
But now he knows how many of the women who attended the marches must feel.
53
A greater love of country really is love for what most of us aspire to being as Americans, what makes us “exceptional” (yes, we still are). And it’s the one thing that gets us beyond the divisiveness of identity politics and the pedantic need to separate us into ever-more-discreet moieties of color, ethnicity, class, gender and sexual identity.
David Dinkins (who preceded Rudy Giuliani as NYC mayor) denied the American “melting pot” in favor of a “gorgeous mosaic”, a culturally indigestible ideal of discreet parts each living in perfect collective Kumbaya. Today’s identity politics are the remaining expression of that exploded vision: we haven’t been so divided since our civil war, and our racial tensions haven’t been so intense since the 1960s. We need to return to the “melting pot” and a love of country. Trump’s inaugural address was a call to do that, and it plays in America.
Gail’s persistent annoyance that Trump refuses to “pivot” misses the point. Trump’s “anima” comes from a different place than that of the manic obsessives who populate D.C., the editorial boards of our great newspapers, Harvard kaffee klatches and Barbara Streisand’s solarium. His verities are simpler.
There will come a day when we can again afford to spelunk into the depths of our varied ideological navels. For now, we’re waaaay too deep into the cave system, and we need those simpler “American” verities to point a way back out into the light.
Advice to Gail and many others: hate less.
David Dinkins (who preceded Rudy Giuliani as NYC mayor) denied the American “melting pot” in favor of a “gorgeous mosaic”, a culturally indigestible ideal of discreet parts each living in perfect collective Kumbaya. Today’s identity politics are the remaining expression of that exploded vision: we haven’t been so divided since our civil war, and our racial tensions haven’t been so intense since the 1960s. We need to return to the “melting pot” and a love of country. Trump’s inaugural address was a call to do that, and it plays in America.
Gail’s persistent annoyance that Trump refuses to “pivot” misses the point. Trump’s “anima” comes from a different place than that of the manic obsessives who populate D.C., the editorial boards of our great newspapers, Harvard kaffee klatches and Barbara Streisand’s solarium. His verities are simpler.
There will come a day when we can again afford to spelunk into the depths of our varied ideological navels. For now, we’re waaaay too deep into the cave system, and we need those simpler “American” verities to point a way back out into the light.
Advice to Gail and many others: hate less.
4
@Richard Luettgen -- When Americans stop discriminating on the basis of race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, and disability, we can move past identity politics.
10
Trump and the Tea Party are the ones who started the hate. They were the ones who couldn't stand to see a black man in the White House and did everything they could to stymie him over 8 years. His, Trump has been elected running a platform of exclusion, racism, bigotry and misogyny and a breathtaking number of my fellow Americans swallowed it and voted for him anyway because they wanted his snake oil promises...they sold their souls for a border wall and hollow promises, selling out their friends and neighbors of color, who are Muslim, who are LGBTQ, and you say WE are the ones with hate? That's really rich, Richard.
12
We are social animals, Richard. And Trump is a sociopath: a person who poisons societies.
8
Mr. Brooks criticizes the "vulgar" signs at the massive marches. The language was simply that which the new Commander-in-Chief used when admitting to his custom of sexual assault on women.
As for Brooks' concern that the nation is divided, the responsibility for mending the breach begins at the top. Trump did not use his inaugural speech to condemn racism, violence against minorities or even to chastise those in the crowd who booed Sen. Schumer as he read a Union soldiers's letter and Secretary Clinton. Instead, he sounded like Mussolini and basically told everyone to get in line in order to be patriotic.
As for Brooks' concern that the nation is divided, the responsibility for mending the breach begins at the top. Trump did not use his inaugural speech to condemn racism, violence against minorities or even to chastise those in the crowd who booed Sen. Schumer as he read a Union soldiers's letter and Secretary Clinton. Instead, he sounded like Mussolini and basically told everyone to get in line in order to be patriotic.
89
I have to agree with your description of Brooks' shifting the responsibility of our national divides to the opponents of Trump while giving him a political ez-pass for any of his behaviors and statements that cleave us. He and his predecessor Brooks do this so regularly and humorlessly that Gail must wish to strap them to the roof on her car and drive them to Mar-a-Lago. Since she seems to be doomed to be in the Brooks of the Month Club, I'd like to suggest that her next Brooks be Mel.
9
The power to kick down compensates for the humiliation of having to kiss up in pyramids capped by Trumps.
1
I thought the inauguration address was fine. He's trying to address the issue of wage stagnation. Maybe the Democrats should try that sometime.
He's definitely oversensitive to media criticism and minor issues like the size of the crowd. A Republican isn't going to attract a big crowd in a liberal town like DC. He also needs to be disciplined and reality based. Sometimes that mean sticking to a prepared script. Other times it means facing up to unpleasant facts.
He's definitely oversensitive to media criticism and minor issues like the size of the crowd. A Republican isn't going to attract a big crowd in a liberal town like DC. He also needs to be disciplined and reality based. Sometimes that mean sticking to a prepared script. Other times it means facing up to unpleasant facts.
5
Tell me again: which party has proposed an increase in the minimum wage, and has done so for years, and which party has resolutely criticized the effort?
Also, a huge percentage of attendees at both inaugurals traveled from outside DC to be there. It's not like locals just roll out of bed and wander down to the Mall to see what's happening.
Also, a huge percentage of attendees at both inaugurals traveled from outside DC to be there. It's not like locals just roll out of bed and wander down to the Mall to see what's happening.
43
Someone as touchy as Donald Trump should rightly be more sensitive about what he himself says. His double standard makes him seem like an unusually petty teenager, not a man in a position that requires a tiny bit of dignity.
9
Wages, that you say are stagnated, are decided by those who have never been wealthier and companies with so much money they shelter it offshore. In other words people like Trump and his cabinet and those the Republicans fight for in Congress. "We don't have enough money to pay people a decent wage [while our wealth is growing by leaps and bounds]" is the biggest lie since Bush's claim of WMDs.
Government intervention in wages is the opposite of what is desired by big big business and Republicans - as they have fought any increases in minimum wages or regulations protecting people's incomes.
And oh BTW even in Washington where the desire to work trumps politics the "liberal town" excuse is just another red herring.
Government intervention in wages is the opposite of what is desired by big big business and Republicans - as they have fought any increases in minimum wages or regulations protecting people's incomes.
And oh BTW even in Washington where the desire to work trumps politics the "liberal town" excuse is just another red herring.
17
Arthur Brooks: 'to be fair about the C.I.A. appearance, Trump preceded his claims about the inauguration crowd with remarks of appreciation such as, “Very, very few people could do the job you people do and I want you to know I am so behind you.”'
Arthur leaves out some patented other patented, classic Trump lies at that CIA presentation:
"I just wanted to really say that I love you, I respect you. There’s nobody I respect more.....so thank you all very much. Thank you -- you’re beautiful."
Reminds us just a little bit of that Oct 2016 debate whopper utter by TrumPinocchio "nobody has more respect for women than I do. Nobody.”.....as the audience erupts in widespread laughter.
Lead by right-wing example; lead by lying.
Hail to the Liar-In-Chief and his Grand Old Prevaricating fascist sidecar for four glorious, 'patriotic', tax-dodging, truth-dodging years !
Arthur leaves out some patented other patented, classic Trump lies at that CIA presentation:
"I just wanted to really say that I love you, I respect you. There’s nobody I respect more.....so thank you all very much. Thank you -- you’re beautiful."
Reminds us just a little bit of that Oct 2016 debate whopper utter by TrumPinocchio "nobody has more respect for women than I do. Nobody.”.....as the audience erupts in widespread laughter.
Lead by right-wing example; lead by lying.
Hail to the Liar-In-Chief and his Grand Old Prevaricating fascist sidecar for four glorious, 'patriotic', tax-dodging, truth-dodging years !
767
Yes, Socrates, and don't forget Trump's "I'm the last racist person you will ever meet." That this delusional narcissist thinks he can stand in front of experienced CIA officers and utter such blatant lies and thinks he can be believed shows just how far gone his mind already is.
7
People skilled at judging the character of others see only a forever train wreck in Donald Trump.
4
A headline during the election concerning one of Trump’s earlier insanities was - Trump’s plan to seize Iraq’s oil: “It’s not stealing, we’re reimbursing ourselves” The word “reimbursing” is now being used in context with Trump’s assertion that he will force Mexico to pay for the wall. General Mattis and any other potential high ranking military officials should be asked what they would do if Trump ordered military force to be used to seize Mexican assets for such reimbursement.
A war with Mexico over payment for the wall is not the only potential war Trump might cause.
“…The question then becomes what did Putin hope to gain by aiding Trump? For argument's sake, assume that Trump had agreed to do Putin's bidding. What Russia and Putin desperately need is money. Even if Putin asked Trump to have the American Treasury transfer, say $200 billion to Russia, that is not going to happen. Even Kellyanne Conway could not spin that one into anything that would be acceptable to the American people or congress. Absent writing Russia a big check, how could Trump cause Russia to gain $200 billion? The answer would be a $50 increase in the price of oil.
We know what has caused most of the oil price spikes in the last 50 years. That has been wars in the Middle East. The first oil shock came with the 1973 war. Iran also provides various pathways that could lead to another oil price spike..."
http://seekingalpha.com/article/4034048
A war with Mexico over payment for the wall is not the only potential war Trump might cause.
“…The question then becomes what did Putin hope to gain by aiding Trump? For argument's sake, assume that Trump had agreed to do Putin's bidding. What Russia and Putin desperately need is money. Even if Putin asked Trump to have the American Treasury transfer, say $200 billion to Russia, that is not going to happen. Even Kellyanne Conway could not spin that one into anything that would be acceptable to the American people or congress. Absent writing Russia a big check, how could Trump cause Russia to gain $200 billion? The answer would be a $50 increase in the price of oil.
We know what has caused most of the oil price spikes in the last 50 years. That has been wars in the Middle East. The first oil shock came with the 1973 war. Iran also provides various pathways that could lead to another oil price spike..."
http://seekingalpha.com/article/4034048
1
Arthur Brooks displays a lot of chutzpah in complaining about the signage of the marches on Saturday. Does it he remember that every Trump rally was a display of bigotry, hatred, and implacability to any initiative by liberals?
And yes, breaking windows on inauguration day and creating mayhem is no way to protest. On the other hand, yelling out "lock her up" as Mrs. Clinton made her way to her seat at the inauguration was rude and crude.
I also take issue with Mr. Brooks' comments on patriotism. Using the flag and our proud history as a badge of honor only one side wears is shameful. I think most if not all Americans love their country and want it to do well.
The problem is each side has definitions and interpretations of what our history means and represents. Republicans rely on myth and American goodness. Democrats see the best in our country is when civil liberties are expanded to all Americans.
No one party can lay claim to patriotism. Waving the flag while keeping people from achieving their full potential is unpatriotic and hypocritical.
So is painting America as some horrible waste land when it isn't. Or setting yourself up as an American savior when the best answers come from the people, not big donors and billionaires.
And yes, breaking windows on inauguration day and creating mayhem is no way to protest. On the other hand, yelling out "lock her up" as Mrs. Clinton made her way to her seat at the inauguration was rude and crude.
I also take issue with Mr. Brooks' comments on patriotism. Using the flag and our proud history as a badge of honor only one side wears is shameful. I think most if not all Americans love their country and want it to do well.
The problem is each side has definitions and interpretations of what our history means and represents. Republicans rely on myth and American goodness. Democrats see the best in our country is when civil liberties are expanded to all Americans.
No one party can lay claim to patriotism. Waving the flag while keeping people from achieving their full potential is unpatriotic and hypocritical.
So is painting America as some horrible waste land when it isn't. Or setting yourself up as an American savior when the best answers come from the people, not big donors and billionaires.
310
As I struggled through @Christine's typically liberal screed; I figured out that apparently 2 wrongs = 1 right.
1
@RJ: you sound like your fearless leader. The New York Times is a liberal paper. It is also highly reputable, with top-notch reporting here. So, I'll repeat the question I always ask when I'm attacked for my view points: why do you read this paper?
Frankly, I'd never waste my time reading Breitbart or FOX in order to yell at Trump supporters. You must have an awful lot of time on your hands!
Frankly, I'd never waste my time reading Breitbart or FOX in order to yell at Trump supporters. You must have an awful lot of time on your hands!
9
@Christine - I find you, the Times, HuffPo, and Salon, infinitely amusing...
2
Conservatives can drink the most bitter poison and they'll swear it's lemonade, if it suits their political ends. Brooks' tepid rehash of the Rise of Rump is nothing more than weakly apologizing for a coup, in which the lunatics are now running the asylum.
Yes, it was a peaceful takeover, which conservative pundits never tire of pointing out, as if that was all that mattered. They ignore the fact that three million people subsequently took to the streets wearing pussycat hats to express outrage, and to remind people what just happened.
All Brooks seemingly babble the same, since David Brooks also points out that the marches were light on organized policy statements, as if that was the point. But the point was to remind Republicans that millions of people were disgusted with this travesty. Most voters thought that they lived in a country that would never let such an ignorant fraud get elected, so they were complacent. Never again: that was the message of the marches.
Let's check back with Mr. Brooks after the 2018 Congressional elections. My only concern is if they'll be able to build enough voting booths between now and then to handle the throngs of people who aren't going to make the same mistake twice.
Yes, it was a peaceful takeover, which conservative pundits never tire of pointing out, as if that was all that mattered. They ignore the fact that three million people subsequently took to the streets wearing pussycat hats to express outrage, and to remind people what just happened.
All Brooks seemingly babble the same, since David Brooks also points out that the marches were light on organized policy statements, as if that was the point. But the point was to remind Republicans that millions of people were disgusted with this travesty. Most voters thought that they lived in a country that would never let such an ignorant fraud get elected, so they were complacent. Never again: that was the message of the marches.
Let's check back with Mr. Brooks after the 2018 Congressional elections. My only concern is if they'll be able to build enough voting booths between now and then to handle the throngs of people who aren't going to make the same mistake twice.
200
I don't know if 2018 will be any different, given the goldfish like memories of the electorate. If things fall apart under repub control it wouldn't surprise me if the voters blame it all on Obama and those liburl' democrats.
3
"My only concern is if they'll be able to build enough voting booths between now and then to handle the throngs of people who aren't going to make the same mistake twice."
That is if, and only if, the party in power hasn't successfully executed their grand plan of preventing the vast majority of those voters from voting in the first place..... Keep your eyes on the voting rights case in Texas.......
That is if, and only if, the party in power hasn't successfully executed their grand plan of preventing the vast majority of those voters from voting in the first place..... Keep your eyes on the voting rights case in Texas.......
2
Interesting view of a President who sounds, and acts, like a dictator in the making. The self-aggrandizement with the continuing sub-theme of "only I can do this..." reeks of a dictator. As Arthur noted, we're going to get a daily EO signing or some such photo op along with the growing dictatorial rhetoric for probably the first 100 days.
After that milestone has been passed and nothing has changed as promised the recriminations, the blame-assignments, the lashing out at various parts of the overall society as "unpatriotic" will start and the results will get really ugly really fast. Already Trump supporters feel that they have a green-light to target groups they already don't like, after the first 100 days don't yield any of the promised results the supporters will go ballistic as Trump identifies group-after-group as unpatriotic (or, worse yet, Anti-Trump-Movement).
When will Congress step up? Perhaps never, being cowed by a dictatorial president and fearing his followers.
If we want examples of what is happening here we need to look at the history of other nations where dictators arose. Franklin was right.
After that milestone has been passed and nothing has changed as promised the recriminations, the blame-assignments, the lashing out at various parts of the overall society as "unpatriotic" will start and the results will get really ugly really fast. Already Trump supporters feel that they have a green-light to target groups they already don't like, after the first 100 days don't yield any of the promised results the supporters will go ballistic as Trump identifies group-after-group as unpatriotic (or, worse yet, Anti-Trump-Movement).
When will Congress step up? Perhaps never, being cowed by a dictatorial president and fearing his followers.
If we want examples of what is happening here we need to look at the history of other nations where dictators arose. Franklin was right.
69
“Gail: Yeah, but that’s a little different from the new leader of the most powerful nation on the planet telling us that America’s spent way too much time helping out the rest of the world.”
Sure. Helping out the world, such as the wars in Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq. The first of the two Bush wars in Iraq (the one in 1991) led directly to the first attack on the World Trade Center in 1993, and then to the attack in September 2001. I think the world would be much better if we tried to *help* it less, and we stuck to actually defending America from its real enemies.
“Gail: Swamp drainer or the guy whose friends are almost all part of the swamp? So far the answer is that we have a president who gives his Inaugural Address about the downtrodden little people while he’s appointing a bunch of bankers and billionaires to run the government.”
Frankly, I like neither Trump nor CEOs, in general. (I voted for Obama twice and also for Hillary.) But I do not give a rat’s hindquarters about whom Trump appoints; all I care about is whether he *makes America great again*.
By the way, Gail also misunderstands the entire *swamp* thing. It is not about cabinet secretaries (who, to a man and woman, are giving up a great amount of wealth and income to serve in government). It is about eliminating the power of the special interests, and the corruption of the revolving doors in Washington.
Sure. Helping out the world, such as the wars in Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq. The first of the two Bush wars in Iraq (the one in 1991) led directly to the first attack on the World Trade Center in 1993, and then to the attack in September 2001. I think the world would be much better if we tried to *help* it less, and we stuck to actually defending America from its real enemies.
“Gail: Swamp drainer or the guy whose friends are almost all part of the swamp? So far the answer is that we have a president who gives his Inaugural Address about the downtrodden little people while he’s appointing a bunch of bankers and billionaires to run the government.”
Frankly, I like neither Trump nor CEOs, in general. (I voted for Obama twice and also for Hillary.) But I do not give a rat’s hindquarters about whom Trump appoints; all I care about is whether he *makes America great again*.
By the way, Gail also misunderstands the entire *swamp* thing. It is not about cabinet secretaries (who, to a man and woman, are giving up a great amount of wealth and income to serve in government). It is about eliminating the power of the special interests, and the corruption of the revolving doors in Washington.
7
I don't believe for a second that a budding dictatorship, full of cronies and favoritism, is antiseptic to special interests. I think the opposite, there will be more corruption than ever before. Corruption thrives in dictatorships, driven by hate, fear, greed, lies, secrecy and power lust.
Buckle your seat belt. My bet is we ain't seen nothin yet.
Buckle your seat belt. My bet is we ain't seen nothin yet.
347
The prestige and power of the US is directly a result of our helping the world for decades where you ignore all the good while a few sore spots don't change that. Giving up that prestige will hurt us as other world powers withered into irrelevance as power migrates elsewhere. The "greatest home court advantage in the world" could become a quaint tourist attraction.
How does one eliminate special interests by appointing those who have done nothing to pursue their special interests, sought to protect their special interests at any cost, and corruption by installing the most ethically challenged president that I can recall. The entire cabinet is about he special interests of corporations and wealth.
How does one eliminate special interests by appointing those who have done nothing to pursue their special interests, sought to protect their special interests at any cost, and corruption by installing the most ethically challenged president that I can recall. The entire cabinet is about he special interests of corporations and wealth.
19
I disagree that all of Trump's cabinet are giving up a lot of income in order to serve the public interest. Look at Betsy DeVos. She and her husband are adamantly retaining a huge stake in a so-called brain training company. As she destroys public schools by shifting funding to charter and private schools which she refuses to promise to hold to the same standards as public schools, watch for an opportunity for the company in which she owns this stake to make enormous profits from that looting of public school money.
Rex Tillerson is also getting a huge golden slide out of Exxon Mobil. He's getting every penny he would otherwise have seen from his impending retirement. I think it's obvious that the company's generosity is in anticipation of lifting sanctions against Russia, so the half trillion dollar deal will go forward. Watch very closely, and I'm certain you will see opportunities for him to rake in tens or hundreds of millions of dollars related to public policy that he will shape.
And the cabinet members who do not have any huge obvious conflicts of interest are simply incompetent. Look at Rick Perry, who didn't even know that the department of energy safeguards our nuclear arsenal until after he was nominated for the job. No nuclear physicist, he.
Rex Tillerson is also getting a huge golden slide out of Exxon Mobil. He's getting every penny he would otherwise have seen from his impending retirement. I think it's obvious that the company's generosity is in anticipation of lifting sanctions against Russia, so the half trillion dollar deal will go forward. Watch very closely, and I'm certain you will see opportunities for him to rake in tens or hundreds of millions of dollars related to public policy that he will shape.
And the cabinet members who do not have any huge obvious conflicts of interest are simply incompetent. Look at Rick Perry, who didn't even know that the department of energy safeguards our nuclear arsenal until after he was nominated for the job. No nuclear physicist, he.
34
"Based on the signs I saw Saturday, igniting a thoughtful deep-dive on education policy was not a primary goal for most marchers."
Oh my, where to begin? This past weekend I had numerous discussions with my fellow marchers regarding Trumps cabinet choices and their many conflicts and short-comings. These discussions were enlightening on a wide range of topics. For example, who knew that the energy department was responsible for our nuclear weapons? I didn't and apparently neither did Rick Perry. One take away from the peaceful marches was that the women and men were unified in their disgust of President Trump's behavior. The vulgar comments made by Trump that were exposed during the campaign will not soon be forgotten. The signs were meant to bring some levity to what was a dark weekend many.
Oh my, where to begin? This past weekend I had numerous discussions with my fellow marchers regarding Trumps cabinet choices and their many conflicts and short-comings. These discussions were enlightening on a wide range of topics. For example, who knew that the energy department was responsible for our nuclear weapons? I didn't and apparently neither did Rick Perry. One take away from the peaceful marches was that the women and men were unified in their disgust of President Trump's behavior. The vulgar comments made by Trump that were exposed during the campaign will not soon be forgotten. The signs were meant to bring some levity to what was a dark weekend many.
87
The new president will alter course if his brand becomes sufficiently damaged that his businesses start to suffer, just as he was concerned about pictures of his inauguration crowd vis-a-vis Obama's crowds which evidenced what polling data confirms as to the historic low esteem the public has for the new first-termer.
35
Arthur: I doubt many foreign leaders saw the core message as much different from what they tell their people every day.
Well, before Brexit we over here heard a lot about foreign aid, the 0.7% of GDP target which we were meeting, and even Responsibility to Protect; and of course the EU is about international co-operation at a very deep level, for the good of all the countries in it. 2016 was a Nationalist change in the UK as well as the US. That is why Trump is so shocking, even though he started saying this at the start of his campaign, in the most vile and ridiculous way possible. Pray for Mrs Merkel, the last Conservative (as opposed to Nationalist) in power. Trump is new. Don't pretend he is not shocking, or that there are parallels or precedents.
Well, before Brexit we over here heard a lot about foreign aid, the 0.7% of GDP target which we were meeting, and even Responsibility to Protect; and of course the EU is about international co-operation at a very deep level, for the good of all the countries in it. 2016 was a Nationalist change in the UK as well as the US. That is why Trump is so shocking, even though he started saying this at the start of his campaign, in the most vile and ridiculous way possible. Pray for Mrs Merkel, the last Conservative (as opposed to Nationalist) in power. Trump is new. Don't pretend he is not shocking, or that there are parallels or precedents.
36
Secretary Monis was certainly more thoughtful then Perry will ever be!@
15
Not one arrest. The women's march was the best thing to happen to this nation in a long time. Men like Brooks will gasp when Madonna engages in locker room talk and pretend that the march was all about foul mouthed references to Trump's foul mouthed references.
The atmosphere at the marches was peaceful and festive. And women hit back hard at sexual predators. The message was loud, clear, and firm. If it makes Arthur Brookes nervous, perhaps it should.
The atmosphere at the marches was peaceful and festive. And women hit back hard at sexual predators. The message was loud, clear, and firm. If it makes Arthur Brookes nervous, perhaps it should.
504
Right! And believe me, the speeches were only a tiny part of the rally and march. I couldn't get within 10 blocks of the main stage, the streets were so packed. The real action was in the crowd of marchers, jubilant, defiant, ready to go home and get involved!
3
While Arthur characterized "the bedrock of our politics will be a total allegiance to the United States", and subsequent reference to patriotism as, "unifying", I thought it contained the malevolent whiff of fascism . Considering Trump's complete intolerance of criticism, exactly what does "total allegiance" mean ? A true patriot can criticize their country. Does Arthur really believe Trump would consider criticism of his actions or policies " patriotic"? Samuel Johnson's often quoted, " Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" would seem to be especially applicable to Donald Trump, especially after his egregious narcissism in front of the CIA's hallowed " Wall of Heroes" and his unsubstantiated, insidious assertions, that the vote of illegal immigrants was why he lost the popular vote.
140
"...When you open your heart to patriotism, there is no room for prejudice.”
"I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed." Martin Luther King, 1963.
"I also appreciated Trump’s point that the antidote to our corrosive identity politics is greater love of country."
"Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country." John F. Kennedy, 1961.
"My biggest worry is...the mutual contempt that is still dominating our discourse."
"...there is not a liberal America and a conservative America — there is the United States of America." Barack Obama, 2004.
Mr. Brooks, enjoy your gloating; true patriot that you are.
"I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed." Martin Luther King, 1963.
"I also appreciated Trump’s point that the antidote to our corrosive identity politics is greater love of country."
"Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country." John F. Kennedy, 1961.
"My biggest worry is...the mutual contempt that is still dominating our discourse."
"...there is not a liberal America and a conservative America — there is the United States of America." Barack Obama, 2004.
Mr. Brooks, enjoy your gloating; true patriot that you are.
66
A (not so) great man once said - elections have consequences. Canada is north - enjoy the winter.
1
A great man did say that (fixed the grammar for you) and he was correct. Elections absolutely have consequences. The election of Barack Obama helped pull this country out of the worst economic conditions it had been in for decades and made America admired once again on the international scene. The consequences of the most recent election, OTOH, already mean saber rattling about going in and simply "taking" the oil of other countries, leaving both citizens and insurance companies unsure of where they stand when it comes to health care, and setting in motion a policy that will result in more, not less, abortions in less developed countries. And we're only on day 2, for heaven's sake. They're pretty ugly consequences--unless, of course, you're happy with more people dying when they need not have. And that meeting with business leaders? Just another manifestation of Trump, the reality TV "star," it was pure theater.
2
It seemed that the new president's address, such as it was, was directed not to all Americans, but to to the GOP and his supporters. After all, with apologies to Leslie Gore, it's his party and he'll boast if he wants to. He strutted like an arrogant peacock during his coronation but came across like the ugly duckling to most Americans watching his spectacle. That's why, just one day later, millions of marchers, especially women, told the 45th to take his presidency and shove it.
160
Arthur, honestly, the only thing you wrote that makes any sense is "a partridge in a pear tree." Couldn't make "heads ner tales," as they say in flyover country, of the rest of it.
61
"When you open your heart to patriotism, there is no room for prejudice."
Sounds good but it's just empty words. Historically, the societies with the worst prejudice have been fiercely patriotic and nationalistic.
We as a people have wildly different visions of America. One person's patriotism has become another person's poison. One person sees obvious racism while another person can't see it.
And judging by Trump's overall behavior, he is neither particular patriotic nor particularly unprejudiced. This statement appealed to nationalistic sentiment while sweeping very real issues about prejudice in this country, and in Trump's character, under the rug.
Sounds good but it's just empty words. Historically, the societies with the worst prejudice have been fiercely patriotic and nationalistic.
We as a people have wildly different visions of America. One person's patriotism has become another person's poison. One person sees obvious racism while another person can't see it.
And judging by Trump's overall behavior, he is neither particular patriotic nor particularly unprejudiced. This statement appealed to nationalistic sentiment while sweeping very real issues about prejudice in this country, and in Trump's character, under the rug.
62
Ben - You're absolutely right. Unless prejudice against people who don't demonstrate the right kind of patriotism (anti-war vs. pro-war, for example) or who don't measure up to the correct standards for good, patriotic citizens (being of the wrong religion is, in some people's eyes, de facto proof that a person cannot be a good citizen) doesn't count. And strong proclamations of being patriotic have on many, many occasions meant that those in neighboring countries (or even sometimes far away countries) are automatically enemies and almost anything they do can be interpreted as a hostile act. This is simply more of Trump's empty but pernicious rhetoric that incites actions based on emotion, not reason.
1
.
.
The President has had a consistent agenda for the last year-and-a-half? What?
He changes things around all the time. He's nowhere NEAR draining the swamp; we'll never know how he plans to deport undocumented aliens; and he's cutting programs that most help the states that voted for him.
Plus, who can take seriously an office-holder who insists on pressing his narrative about how many votes he got? Or someone who sends out Sean Spicer or Kellyanne Conway to lie, and doesn't chastise them for it? I doubt he missed it.
But that speech! Mr. Brooks, you can defend a speech that makes 2017 America sound like a cross between Blade Runner and Mad Max? We have "Carnage" here? Maybe if we just borrowed everyone's guns for a year in exchange for a big user fee, and then keep count of how many homicides and suicides there are. He'll see the carnage disappear.
Richard Nixon had been in office about 17 months, when there was a huge protest in DC. The President couldn't sleep. So he arranged to have one staffer drive him (with no Secret Service) to the Lincoln Memorial, where many of the protesters were congregating. Richard Nixon talked to anti-war longhairs on his own. He certainly didn't fail to acknowledge their protest.
Is Donald Trump as much a believer in government by the people as our disgraced Milhous? Is Donald Trump going to ever criticize Russia for hacking into US servers? Of course not. He's a puppet.
Why defend any part of what he's doing?
.
The President has had a consistent agenda for the last year-and-a-half? What?
He changes things around all the time. He's nowhere NEAR draining the swamp; we'll never know how he plans to deport undocumented aliens; and he's cutting programs that most help the states that voted for him.
Plus, who can take seriously an office-holder who insists on pressing his narrative about how many votes he got? Or someone who sends out Sean Spicer or Kellyanne Conway to lie, and doesn't chastise them for it? I doubt he missed it.
But that speech! Mr. Brooks, you can defend a speech that makes 2017 America sound like a cross between Blade Runner and Mad Max? We have "Carnage" here? Maybe if we just borrowed everyone's guns for a year in exchange for a big user fee, and then keep count of how many homicides and suicides there are. He'll see the carnage disappear.
Richard Nixon had been in office about 17 months, when there was a huge protest in DC. The President couldn't sleep. So he arranged to have one staffer drive him (with no Secret Service) to the Lincoln Memorial, where many of the protesters were congregating. Richard Nixon talked to anti-war longhairs on his own. He certainly didn't fail to acknowledge their protest.
Is Donald Trump as much a believer in government by the people as our disgraced Milhous? Is Donald Trump going to ever criticize Russia for hacking into US servers? Of course not. He's a puppet.
Why defend any part of what he's doing?
220
Is it easier for you to believe that all those who voted Trump are working for the Russians than to address our concerns as voters and American workers?
Do you even know any white men, or working-class people?
Do you even know any white men, or working-class people?
2
Midway: I'm a 64 yo white male who worked his way through school with zero help from anyone. Since then I've had my successes and my failures. Everyone I know is working class, if you define working class as those who work hard. But I've never for a moment considered throwing my country, its Constitution, and its rights and freedoms under the bus just so I might score a job at the expense of someone else. In the USA, no one owes you anything except a level playing field. Trump, his billionaire boys club cabinet, and the GOP only care about tilting the table to enrich themselves. You've been punked.
408
Midway, no one, absolutely no one has ever suggested that every one who voted for Trump was working for the Russians. That's a bit of Trumpian hyperbole followed by the attack pivot which is very Conwayesque.
Your argument is also a classic example of the need to hold two thoughts in your head at the same time. For example:
Working class Americans have legitimate concerns AND the Russians hacked America computers and influenced the election.
It's really not that hard to do and is a good first step to a real dialogue.
Your argument is also a classic example of the need to hold two thoughts in your head at the same time. For example:
Working class Americans have legitimate concerns AND the Russians hacked America computers and influenced the election.
It's really not that hard to do and is a good first step to a real dialogue.
107
Elvis left the building a few days ago, and now we’re here all by ourselves alone with a guy who went to the CIA to give a speech in front of their Memorial Wall, where he marveled at the size of the crowds he attracted to the Inauguration.
Thanks Elvis for a lot of good times and a lot of good memories.
I look forward to meeting up with you again somewhere down the road.
Thanks Elvis for a lot of good times and a lot of good memories.
I look forward to meeting up with you again somewhere down the road.
35
Is this the same CIA that lied us into so many wars around the globe?
The men on that wall helped fill the graves of the world. Let's not be so sentimental...
The men on that wall helped fill the graves of the world. Let's not be so sentimental...
3
Now, to be fair to what you have posted, this is exactly the kind of thing that someone who is working for the Russians would say. It's one of their talking points almost word for word. They like to paint the CIA as the world's biggest threat while completely ignoring that to Americans they are soldiers who have died protecting us, our borders, and our way of life.
White working-class people from the Midwest used to feel that way. Some still do. I know because I have a white working class family from Michigan and many of them have served our country, just like the people whose stars you denigrate.
You may as well burn the flag.
White working-class people from the Midwest used to feel that way. Some still do. I know because I have a white working class family from Michigan and many of them have served our country, just like the people whose stars you denigrate.
You may as well burn the flag.
28
I don't have any problem going to cemeteries to lay flowers on the graves of soldiers who sacrificed for me. I'm sorry that you do.
15
With these five words, Brooks discredits his opinion.