What do we do when border guards are corrupted with gang cash and drugs? Who watches the watchers?
13
I really don't care. The president-elect promised a wall, promised that Mexico would pay for it, got elected, and emphatically repeated the promises just last night. NOW I WANT MY WALL. Not in 2018, NOW. Not a "new system" or a "solution" or an "approach", A WALL. How hard is this to comprehend?!?
If the wall is not completed, BIG and BEAUTIFUL, and fully paid for by Mexico, by November 2020, I shall remember!!
If the wall is not completed, BIG and BEAUTIFUL, and fully paid for by Mexico, by November 2020, I shall remember!!
12
Query whether the Canadians mightn't want to have Trump pay for a border wall just in case our populace is left with no option but to flee his insanity in the coming years....
16
What could go wrong?
1
GO CANADA GO!!!
Comparing America's northerly and southerly borders is kinda silly.
Canada's economy is far more important for the USA than Mexico's. Canada's economy is the most important one in the world for the U.S.A.
A likely Trump-Trudeau trade war could ruin Canada's economy - and America's too.
Comparing America's northerly and southerly borders is kinda silly.
Canada's economy is far more important for the USA than Mexico's. Canada's economy is the most important one in the world for the U.S.A.
A likely Trump-Trudeau trade war could ruin Canada's economy - and America's too.
17
Canada is NOT gun shy, we are smart, and can solve our differences peacefully with conversation, negations, diplomacy and we have been doing for a very long time. Learn about Canada before you criticize us ! Just because we all don't drive around with a six pack between our feet and gun in our belt does not make us gun shy, it make us SMART.
41
Nearly 500,000 people every year overstay their visa in the United States,
They contribute the millions of '' illegal immigrants '' and are of all different nationalities and races. Of course, they are mentioned in the political sphere, nor used as a punching bag.
SO please explain to me how a YUUUUUge wall will stop them ?
They contribute the millions of '' illegal immigrants '' and are of all different nationalities and races. Of course, they are mentioned in the political sphere, nor used as a punching bag.
SO please explain to me how a YUUUUUge wall will stop them ?
14
I cannot believe that you could equate Canada and Mexico! There is NO similarity whatsoever. Dream on!
19
It is actually rather incredulous to me that we talk about 'The Wall' seriously.
We all know that a moat would work much better than a wall.
We all know that a moat would work much better than a wall.
8
The now defunct German Democratic Republic built what it called an "anti fascist protective wall in Berlin".
4
an essential element to be sure...now all that's left
is to get those who seek to enter illegally to approach the
border only at recognized points of entry...
is to get those who seek to enter illegally to approach the
border only at recognized points of entry...
3
Ending Birthright Citizenship would go a long way to stopping economic migration to the US.
16
Forget a Wall.
America looks more and more like Mexico and Central America already.
Soon it'll be so bad even the Hondurans don't want to come here.
America looks more and more like Mexico and Central America already.
Soon it'll be so bad even the Hondurans don't want to come here.
16
The Berlin Wall worked
Obama building a wall around new home in DC
Great Wall of China works
Obama building a wall around new home in DC
Great Wall of China works
6
I'm sorry, you folks don't get it. Applying thought, reasoning, and problem solving skills to this, or almost any, issue is just more Liberal Elitism! Problems like immigration are black and white, not complex, and a simple gut solution like a wall is clearly the only way to go! There's also a serious lack of finger pointing, yelling, and vindictiveness in this piece for me to take it seriously.
OK, hit the limit of my attention span, gotta go hang with my fellow Neaderthals...
OK, hit the limit of my attention span, gotta go hang with my fellow Neaderthals...
19
Please don't worry about Canada. It has already begun construction of a wall along its southern border and against Alaska. Canada is determined to stop all express trains from nuthouse nation, not to mention yeast infections called "Wasilla."
www.endthemadnessnow.org
www.endthemadnessnow.org
17
Are we under the illusion that the Mexican government is going to work with the U.S. to stem the tide? HA! That ain't gonna happen. Oh, a few feeble gestures maybe but having Mexicans work in America and wire funds back to THEIR economy benefits Mexico. So the way to fix it is to correct all the inequalities in Mexico so that the citizens stay put and build their own, large Mexican middle class. Geezzz, the solution is so simple but super wealthy Mexicans, the ruling class, are not interested.
13
Drones armed with missiles should work nicely.
7
Trump wants to make big deals. Trump wants to build walls.
Here's an idea. Merger with Mexico. Huuuge deal. And the border wall at the south end of our new, combined country is only 1/4 as long. We save money.
Here's an idea. Merger with Mexico. Huuuge deal. And the border wall at the south end of our new, combined country is only 1/4 as long. We save money.
7
Pre-clearing a truck away from the boarder sounds like a good idea, but what prevents that truck from stopping on its trip to the border to take on contraband? Beware band aids when surgery is required.
8
Walls work. Ask Israel. Ask China. Ask East Berlin. Walls are hard to climb. Trump will build it. Mexico will pay for it. Then there will be no more rapists and murderers from that Country. They are not sending their best.
12
One obvious difference comes to mind: Immigrants may use Canada as a transit state, but will rarely originate there. Mexico on the other hand is itself a major source of immigrants. So you're comparing apples and oranges.
Not to mention that drug cartels have huge influence in Mexico, and corruption is high. So Mexican authorities are not necessarily trustworthy. Canada on the other hand is not known for its organized crime or high levels of corruption in governernment agencies or law enforcement.
Not to mention that drug cartels have huge influence in Mexico, and corruption is high. So Mexican authorities are not necessarily trustworthy. Canada on the other hand is not known for its organized crime or high levels of corruption in governernment agencies or law enforcement.
3
A wall won't require health care, pensions, salary, vacation, disability, etc. It costs 25 billion perhaps and will stand for 500 years, keeping the Southern hordes out.
4
Mr. Kelly's ideas make sense, but they will have to financially make sense to Trump, and also make him look good, before he supports them.
Layered defense strategies work. Fundamental security has three main tactical components: detection, delay and response. A physical barrier alone only provides delay. Agents alone can only provide detection and response.
The general public has clearly confused tactics with strategy when accepting or rejecting a physical barrier. Certainly one that extends the many miles that are already there, even around their own private property.
Politicians have exploited this interstitial space for too long. Nice to have someone with clear strategic thinking on top of it.
The general public has clearly confused tactics with strategy when accepting or rejecting a physical barrier. Certainly one that extends the many miles that are already there, even around their own private property.
Politicians have exploited this interstitial space for too long. Nice to have someone with clear strategic thinking on top of it.
3
The most effective way to reduce illegal immigration is to require businesses to require proof of citizenship when they hire someone, and to heavily penalize businesses that do not do it, or that knowingly hire undocumented immigrants. Most of the people who come across the border illegally do so because they are looking for work, and believe they have a good chance of finding it. As long as the job prospects are there, people will find a way to get into the US and a "great wall" is not going to stop most of them. In any case, as has been repeatedly pointed out, most undocumented immigrants come in on tourist visas and just stay. As for border crossings that result from drug traffic, the US shares a long coastline on the Gulf of Mexico with Mexico and several countries in Central America. Boats that bring drugs into the US states that border the Gulf are not going to be stopped by "the wall". Overhauling our immigration laws to make them more functional, and developing collaborative solutions with Mexico, as Kelly suggests, will accomplish much more than spending billions on building a largely symbolic wall.
16
If I were a border agent, I'm sure I'd love to be posted to Mexico where I would be subject to all the pressures and intimidation that the cartels already bring to bear on Mexico's own officials.
Naivety score for this article: 98/100
Naivety score for this article: 98/100
9
Why are we arguing to let Trump and his voters off the hook? They deserve the big stupid pointless wall that they voted for. They deserve to lose their insurance that they don't even realize comes from Obamacare. They deserve to see their social security evaporate while the wealthy get tax cuts. We have spent the last 20+ years trying to explain to voters that the GOP is dishonest and corrupt, but they keep voting for them. Nothing is going to change in this country unless Trump voters learn a painful lesson in the next four years. A hideous half-built wall, constructed with billions of misspent tax dollars in the most corrupt infrastructure project in American history will stand as a lasting reminder that might end up being worth every penny.
23
Department of Homeland Security 2016:
Illegal visa overstays by Canadians: 93,000
Illegal visa overstays by Mexicans: 42,000
I see a lot of people here telling us to worry about one and not the other.
Incidentally, studies have shown that the people most likely to be extremely opposed to illegal immigration from Mexico live in the parts of the country with the fewest number of illegal Mexican immigrants.
Illegal visa overstays by Canadians: 93,000
Illegal visa overstays by Mexicans: 42,000
I see a lot of people here telling us to worry about one and not the other.
Incidentally, studies have shown that the people most likely to be extremely opposed to illegal immigration from Mexico live in the parts of the country with the fewest number of illegal Mexican immigrants.
6
The Wall is a proclamation that one is suspicious of multiculturalism and in favor of American isolationism. It's not about border security.
2
A wall between the US and Mexico will not stop all of the illegal aliens. Israel has a wall that has proven effective against keeping terrorists out of the country.
A wall alone is not enough to stop this invasion. A wall must be supplemented with drones, marine patrols, and people detecting tunnels. Similar to the way the US coasts and borders were patrolled in WW2.
Something as formal as these borders customs people are just going to be circumvented.
A wall alone is not enough to stop this invasion. A wall must be supplemented with drones, marine patrols, and people detecting tunnels. Similar to the way the US coasts and borders were patrolled in WW2.
Something as formal as these borders customs people are just going to be circumvented.
4
Why don't we legalize drugs instead? The war on drugs has failed miserably. And why not make immigration and easier process?
4
There's a number of innovative program's already in place that the author did not mention, but are very much s part of Customs & Border Protection's "layered approach" to fighting terrorism. Customs Trade Partnership Against Terrorism (C-TPAT) is a partnership between the federal government and the Trade community. C -TPAT is but one layer in U.S. Customs and Border Protection’s (CBP) multi-layered cargo enforcement strategy. Through this program, CBP works with the trade community to strengthen international supply chains and improve United States border security. C-TPAT is a voluntary public-private sector partnership program which recognizes that CBP can provide the highest level of cargo security only through close cooperation with the principle stakeholders of the international supply chain such as importers, carriers, consolidators, licensed customs brokers, and manufacturers. Through Mutual Recognition agreements that are already in place, US Customs and its counterparts in Canada and Mexico have collaborate and create a unified and sustainable security posture that assists in securing and facilitating trade within North America.
1
This makes a lot of sense. It's the smart solutions rather than the simple solutions that really work.
1
I live four miles from the US-Canada border and know there are constant illegal entries, some of them caught soon after they jump the little ditch, scurry across farmland or paddle across the bay. These are not people who offer themselves up for screening or who attempt to receive permission to enter the US; they are determined to get in completely under the radar. Kudos to the Homeland Security professionals for their vigilance, but something additional would be helpful. A wall? I don't have the answer.
2
"...walling off the entire southern boundary at great cost sends a hostile message that could snuff out the very cooperation needed to make our borders truly secure..."
We should be sending a "hostile message" to Mexico, which has happily outsourced its entire welfare system - almost 10% of its population - to the US, while quickly moving northwards any and all migrants arriving at its southern border, while illegal aliens in the US prop up its corrupt government by sending $25+ billion in remittances, yet Mexico still receives close to a 1/2 billion dollars in foreign aid from the US taxpayers.
We should be sending a "hostile message" to Mexico, which has happily outsourced its entire welfare system - almost 10% of its population - to the US, while quickly moving northwards any and all migrants arriving at its southern border, while illegal aliens in the US prop up its corrupt government by sending $25+ billion in remittances, yet Mexico still receives close to a 1/2 billion dollars in foreign aid from the US taxpayers.
6
Having lived on the Canadian border for most of my life and now in Arizona I can attest Mr. Kelly is clueless to compare the Mexican country and border to Canada. People from all over Central and South America use the US Southern border to get into the country. Organized gangs control many sections and have their spotters in south Arizona and Texas to offset the Border Agents. Middle Eastern suspects are regular arrivals using this sieve to cross into the US. Mexico does nothing but encourage folks to go NORD and set back the loot.
Canada strictly enforces their border and works daily with the US folks to keep it safe. There is no influx of Canadians rushing to get illegal access to the US. The interdiction programs with the US and Canada do work because of the populations using the borders.
Finally there is an old saying. The definition of a Canadian is an American without a gun and has health insurance.
Canada strictly enforces their border and works daily with the US folks to keep it safe. There is no influx of Canadians rushing to get illegal access to the US. The interdiction programs with the US and Canada do work because of the populations using the borders.
Finally there is an old saying. The definition of a Canadian is an American without a gun and has health insurance.
7
Let's cut the baloney shall we? As usual, the wall discussion is merely a side-show in the immigration conversation. Time for Americans to pay the real price in ending illegal immigration:
1) All American citizens are issued either a national identity card or passport. (this will also solve the non existent "voter fraud" nonsense)
2) Businesses must prove that they cannot fill a job with a citizen. No more coddling cheaters and no more visas designed to push wages down.
3) Hiring an illegal results in severe penalties with mandatory prison time (this will "lighten up" the prison population)
4) Instead of militarizing law enforcement departments, funds should be allocated for an increase in immigration enforcement officers.
You see, of course, these measures would cost money, but in the long term, investments in them would be far more effective than a wall. Americans would also be forced to face reality instead of making up stories about immigration. Clearly defining who belongs in the country can't happen until everyone is "documented."
1) All American citizens are issued either a national identity card or passport. (this will also solve the non existent "voter fraud" nonsense)
2) Businesses must prove that they cannot fill a job with a citizen. No more coddling cheaters and no more visas designed to push wages down.
3) Hiring an illegal results in severe penalties with mandatory prison time (this will "lighten up" the prison population)
4) Instead of militarizing law enforcement departments, funds should be allocated for an increase in immigration enforcement officers.
You see, of course, these measures would cost money, but in the long term, investments in them would be far more effective than a wall. Americans would also be forced to face reality instead of making up stories about immigration. Clearly defining who belongs in the country can't happen until everyone is "documented."
4
Trump's reason for the wall was the roar of the crowd. He hired and underpaid illegal immigrants himself (and his current wife, though at the high end, likely worked briefly as one as well; not to mention making two immigrant women legal by marrying them). But his memory and ethics are absent when inconvenient, which is most of the time.
This last parenthetical remark also reminds me that Trump's legion of selfishness make it hard to keep track. Melania (and Ivana once upon a time, though he "fired" her for a younger model) is another connection to the Russian sphere of influence.
Lies? What lies?
It is tiresome that the press gives so much space to vacancy, while not reporting in much depth on much else that is going on in the world.
This last parenthetical remark also reminds me that Trump's legion of selfishness make it hard to keep track. Melania (and Ivana once upon a time, though he "fired" her for a younger model) is another connection to the Russian sphere of influence.
Lies? What lies?
It is tiresome that the press gives so much space to vacancy, while not reporting in much depth on much else that is going on in the world.
7
Unlimited immigration of poor people into a welfare state,has problems,even if they are great people.Crowding of roads,costly aid programs,high taxes for current residents are examples.I ride a bike,here in So California and can tell you,I'm fearing for my life with so many cars on the road.
5
Traffic in car-crazed southern California is due to the welfare state? That's a new one. I walk in Chicago and fear for my life because so many drivers on the road are staring at their expensive phones.
6
I say let the Donald build the wall and pay for it with his billions. In fact, I want to see him keep his promise for once. When he gets dethroned, we can have a huge take-down party.
4
Land mines.
Land mines, dragons, and anthrax
And we have to legalize drugs.
Also occupy a swath of land some miles deep into Mexico
Land mines.
And signs.
Land mines, dragons, and anthrax
And we have to legalize drugs.
Also occupy a swath of land some miles deep into Mexico
Land mines.
And signs.
7
Sort of what exists between the two Koreas. Makes sense :)
2
The Mexican government is in cahoots with the drug cartels. They're bribed to look the other way while occasionally engaging in kabuki theater crackdowns, or they're eliminated. The cartels run rampant in much of America. It's not just the border states like California anymore, they're even in Alaska.
People will always migrate when the economic prospects in their native countries are bleak and the obstacles are surmountable. Employers have taken advantage of this, hiring illegals at lower wages with no repercussions as well as those who are legal working at jobs that Americans don't seem willing to do anymore.
High school kids used to start companies that got the lawns mowed, the driveways plowed, the hedges trimmed. They used to work in restaurants chopping the vegetables and washing the dishes. Now it seems to be all Latinos. Lord only knows how the crops got picked decades ago.
Canada's border has always been a joke. You're not allowed in the country if you've got a DUI in the computer, but 2/3rds of the marijuana consumed in the USA comes from British Columbia. It's called BC Bud. Generic, far better than the "Mexican dirt weed" but nowhere as good as the gourmet stuff grown indoors by conscientious and prideful Americans. Cheaper than the latter but pricier than the former. But ganja never killed anyone, the Mexican cartels are trafficking in heroin, cocaine, and methamphetamine. Not to mention their involvement in the sex trade, often with underage girls.
People will always migrate when the economic prospects in their native countries are bleak and the obstacles are surmountable. Employers have taken advantage of this, hiring illegals at lower wages with no repercussions as well as those who are legal working at jobs that Americans don't seem willing to do anymore.
High school kids used to start companies that got the lawns mowed, the driveways plowed, the hedges trimmed. They used to work in restaurants chopping the vegetables and washing the dishes. Now it seems to be all Latinos. Lord only knows how the crops got picked decades ago.
Canada's border has always been a joke. You're not allowed in the country if you've got a DUI in the computer, but 2/3rds of the marijuana consumed in the USA comes from British Columbia. It's called BC Bud. Generic, far better than the "Mexican dirt weed" but nowhere as good as the gourmet stuff grown indoors by conscientious and prideful Americans. Cheaper than the latter but pricier than the former. But ganja never killed anyone, the Mexican cartels are trafficking in heroin, cocaine, and methamphetamine. Not to mention their involvement in the sex trade, often with underage girls.
9
I love the US border controls -- especially in the airports. They prevent gun-carrying people from reaching gun-loathing countries abroad, at US tay-payer expense.
2
Canadian and Mexican borders are two very different beasts as many of you have already pointed out. What about using drones that supplement what Border Agents already do - they can't be everywhere. As I see it, Mexico is part of the problem and has been for years- they aren't working with the US to control the borders - there is nothing in it for them.
9
Yet more terror attempts have been attributed to people crossing in from Canada than from Mexico.
1
Net immigration from Mexico is negative. The crime and gangs in the Mexican border cities are a direct result of our war on drugs. Talk of a wall is merely a distraction (propaganda) from the real issues.
4
So President Obama quietly signed a bil last month giving final American approval to an agreement that opens up numerous land and sea ports of entry in Canada to armed American customs agents, who will "preclear" travelers bound for the US long before they get to the border.
News to me, first I've heard of it of it here and I read the Canadian news too.
News to me, first I've heard of it of it here and I read the Canadian news too.
6
I fly out of Toronto Pearson International to the United States on a regular basis. Having U.S. Customs agents do pre-clearance here helps relieve some of the cattle drive ordeal of flying. I also have trusted traveler status which expedites the process even more. I'm glad to see the program expanded.
The myth that 9-11 high-jackers came through Canada seems to persist. NONE of the high-jackers came from Canada nor did the recent Fort Lauderdale shooter as some news outlets initially reported. Yes we are a multi-cultural nation and have welcomed many refugees but we are not a slip-shod back door for terrorists.
The myth that 9-11 high-jackers came through Canada seems to persist. NONE of the high-jackers came from Canada nor did the recent Fort Lauderdale shooter as some news outlets initially reported. Yes we are a multi-cultural nation and have welcomed many refugees but we are not a slip-shod back door for terrorists.
10
If you fine employers $100,000 per every illegal in their employ, that would stop the demand. Also, the fines could go a long way to paying for boots on the ground and enforcement costs.
10
This is a very thoughtful and insightful article. I have one additional comment about a wall. A wall will do nothing to stop immigrants who enter the country legally (by land, sea or air) from overstaying their visas and thus becoming undocumented.
7
Some people seem to have a knee-jerk reaction to the word "immigration." It makes them start babbling generalizations about Mexico and its culture.
But Canadians are fine. The generalization is that they're harmless white folks just like us.
Except that in recent years we've had a flood of illegal immigration from the north. Not by native Canadians, but by Asians passing through Canada, many of them (gasp!) Muslims.
Strange how people who claim immigration as their key issue don't know that.
But Canadians are fine. The generalization is that they're harmless white folks just like us.
Except that in recent years we've had a flood of illegal immigration from the north. Not by native Canadians, but by Asians passing through Canada, many of them (gasp!) Muslims.
Strange how people who claim immigration as their key issue don't know that.
7
What a concept and excellent idea that not only enhances security past the border but relieves the snarling daily congestion that encourages commerce between both countries.
3
This makes no sense.
We have a 1,989 mile border with Mexico. If a criminal is trying to smuggle drugs or guns into the country he is not going to go to a border crossing.
How do you cooperate with a country that gives its citizens handbooks on how to evade American laws and send money back to Mexico? A big part of the Mexican economy is cash from Mexican citizens living in the US.
We have a 1,989 mile border with Mexico. If a criminal is trying to smuggle drugs or guns into the country he is not going to go to a border crossing.
How do you cooperate with a country that gives its citizens handbooks on how to evade American laws and send money back to Mexico? A big part of the Mexican economy is cash from Mexican citizens living in the US.
13
It is worth noting that although the majority of people who enter this country illegally in the first place may indeed come from the countries south of us; the majority of the people who come legally and overstay their visas are: Canadian.
(A good little article in the LA Times has the numbers.)
(A good little article in the LA Times has the numbers.)
2
Whaaat? News to me: Please include the URL. thank you.
Great idea. And we can start to screen out illegal guns coming into Canada, where it is extremely unusual for people, especially in cities, to own them. In fact, if I ever attended a dinner party where the owner talked about having a gun in the house, I would get up and leave. It would be shocking, scary, and that is the overwhelming consensus.
3
Many Canadians, at least those who know about it, are upset with our new border arrangements with the US, not least because you have all elected a government the majority of us fear. Allowing armed border guards into our country is an attack on our sovereignty.
With American policies in Canada, I like to play the reverse to see if it's ethical or fair - would America allow armed Canadian Border Services into Washington State to stem the flow of illegal guns into our country? Not a chance. Your politicians would turn that into a circus, even though illegal American guns are a real problem for us; they fuel gang violence and contribute to homicides in our cities.
No, what I think you will start to see is Canadians turning away from America. You seem to have a social disease, and we are tired of trying to cooperate with insanity. Our federal government has slowly diversified our export partners, making us less reliant on American imports and NAFTA. Amongst my peer group, we will not be travelling to the US under a Trump administration. Canadians are leaving their American jobs and returning. We have now had several fleeing immigrant Americans cross our border in desperation - it's all over our news.
Truth be told, if you are worried about the border, the American electorate just provided the best disincentive for Canadians to enter the US at all - electing a frightening proto-fascist government. Canada closed itself from America in the 1930s, we can do it again.
With American policies in Canada, I like to play the reverse to see if it's ethical or fair - would America allow armed Canadian Border Services into Washington State to stem the flow of illegal guns into our country? Not a chance. Your politicians would turn that into a circus, even though illegal American guns are a real problem for us; they fuel gang violence and contribute to homicides in our cities.
No, what I think you will start to see is Canadians turning away from America. You seem to have a social disease, and we are tired of trying to cooperate with insanity. Our federal government has slowly diversified our export partners, making us less reliant on American imports and NAFTA. Amongst my peer group, we will not be travelling to the US under a Trump administration. Canadians are leaving their American jobs and returning. We have now had several fleeing immigrant Americans cross our border in desperation - it's all over our news.
Truth be told, if you are worried about the border, the American electorate just provided the best disincentive for Canadians to enter the US at all - electing a frightening proto-fascist government. Canada closed itself from America in the 1930s, we can do it again.
9
Walls, schmalls. So long as small business owners in the US continue to engage in the illegal hiring of undocumented aliens, there will be an influx of immigrant workers into our country. It's the elephant in the room, the 800-pound gorilla, that no one is willing to address or even publicly acknowledge, our politicians least of all.
4
A physical wall will be opposed by many southern states who want easy access to the Mexican markets and easy access to Mexican goods. Also, it wouldn't stop the largest group of undocumented immigrants, Europeans from entering the United Sates.
The wall is an idea for those who lack imagination and intelligence.
The wall is an idea for those who lack imagination and intelligence.
5
Co-operation is wonderful and one reason why Canada and the United States have done so is because we are such huge trading partners. However co-operation requires respect of each other and it is sad to see how Mexico and Mexicans get vilified. America is not some innocent victim of illegal immigration and trade. America participates to the extent that Mexico and Canada also need to protect their citizens against the illegal activities that Americans would like to export elsewhere. You would not know that when reading American media sources where Americans like to wring their hands about all the bad foreigners and ignore their own participation and role.
1
Article completely ignores the different realities at the two borders. Further armed customs agents at the southern border aren't going to do anything to prevent the flow of people and contraband across the broad stretches of the border that are not ports-of-entry.
Another commenter said the author "artfully" ignores the differences between the two borders. I disagree; I think he blatantly and clumsily does so.
Another commenter said the author "artfully" ignores the differences between the two borders. I disagree; I think he blatantly and clumsily does so.
3
A large federal construction project cannot proceed without an approved Environmental Impact Statement (EIS). Walling off our southern border would inevitably negatively effect migratory wildlife and endangered species. It is hard to imagine that a properly conducted environmental impact study would do anything other than prohibit such a boondoggle.
2
But doesn't the existing border fence also inhibit wildlife and endangered species migration ?
If Trump thinks a wall is the answer, he also needs to build one on the northern border. Canada is open to tourists from all parts of the world. What would prevent a tourist in Canada from crossing the US-Canadian border with help from a smuggling operation? Perhaps expensive, but cost is of little consequence to a determined and desperate person or family. After he has done that, he will need to concern himself with the "boat people."
1
All this talk of spending untold billions of needed taxpayers money on more fencing is just stupid. The US doesn't need to spend billions on deporting and fencing. We already have a process in place that could end most of the illegal immigration that occurs in the US. It's called EVerify, and all Congress has to do is make a law that requires every company or individual
that hires anyone for anything, first use EVERIFY first to determine if that person is legal. Perhaps rich Republicans don't want to lose their cheap labor, like Trump who won't hire legal Americans to work for him in his businesses.
that hires anyone for anything, first use EVERIFY first to determine if that person is legal. Perhaps rich Republicans don't want to lose their cheap labor, like Trump who won't hire legal Americans to work for him in his businesses.
3
There are miles of our border which are not fenced and are barely monitored. I would like to see watchtowers in some sections so more could be surveiled.
I want an end to ALL illegal crossings and Central American should be sent back to Mexico. One of the principles of Asylum is that you ask for it in the first safe country you come to - otherwise you are an asylum shopper. Asylum shopper is what the central AMericans are and they should be turned back and sent to Mexico. We should not even give them a chance to apply for asylum - they are asylum shoppers. We must push them back to Mexico and take the one currently i the US and send them back also. We can deny asylum on the ground that they are nothing but asylum shoppers.
If they once learn that they will not get asylum in the US but will be pushed back to Mexico, they will learn to stop coming. We can help Mexico by building a large asylum camp to hold them while Mexico acts on their petition for Asylum.
I want an end to ALL illegal crossings and Central American should be sent back to Mexico. One of the principles of Asylum is that you ask for it in the first safe country you come to - otherwise you are an asylum shopper. Asylum shopper is what the central AMericans are and they should be turned back and sent to Mexico. We should not even give them a chance to apply for asylum - they are asylum shoppers. We must push them back to Mexico and take the one currently i the US and send them back also. We can deny asylum on the ground that they are nothing but asylum shoppers.
If they once learn that they will not get asylum in the US but will be pushed back to Mexico, they will learn to stop coming. We can help Mexico by building a large asylum camp to hold them while Mexico acts on their petition for Asylum.
8
Really - is anyone shocked the "American customs agents’ authority wasn’t as broad as the United States would have liked because Canadian officials would not allow the agents to carry their sidearms?
Some Agreement! Obama ought to have worked more diligently with the Mexican government refused to engage in such an action to have travellers from Mexico pre-checked by American customs agents. Millions of undocumented Mexicans are living illegally in the USA - and Obama works on an agreement with Canada? Sounds to me that the Canadians were an easier mark to gain consent and the Mexicans wouldn't buy into it. It would make far more sense to ensure preclearance at the Mexican Border for Mexican travellers with pre-checks by American customs agents.
Some Agreement! Obama ought to have worked more diligently with the Mexican government refused to engage in such an action to have travellers from Mexico pre-checked by American customs agents. Millions of undocumented Mexicans are living illegally in the USA - and Obama works on an agreement with Canada? Sounds to me that the Canadians were an easier mark to gain consent and the Mexicans wouldn't buy into it. It would make far more sense to ensure preclearance at the Mexican Border for Mexican travellers with pre-checks by American customs agents.
1
This is one of the silliest articles I have ever read. The problem is not, and probably never was, with people coming through legitimate crossing points. The problem is with people who make their own crossing points. Also, what are the customs agents going to do with their new weapons? It is usually considered bad form to shoot people who ask to enter one's country.
4
The main border problems Canada faces are (1) illegals being smuggled from the USA into Canada, and (2) the cumbersome, inefficient and often rude treatment travelers get subjected to entering the USA. Both of these problems are under the control of the USA and posting gun-toting American law enforcement officials within Canada will not solve them - if anything has the potential to make item (2) worse. Some of the other measures described here could help improve item (2) if civility were part of the package being imported with the guns.
5
Certainly the author must mean people using Canada as a means of entering the United States, rather than hordes of Canadians trying to get to your country. I know of none who want to go to the United States, especially now. That grass is definitely not greener. And the Canadian government is, and should be aware, that this kind of cooperation - allowing US agents to have guns when Canadian agents can't, as if guns is useful past the security lines, etc., where the customs clearing happens - is delicate; we don't want an Americanized paranoia here. This is a ridiculous article. To be called reasonable by a country led by Trump is no compliment.
7
Unfortunately, sophistication and subtlety are not Trump attributes. Like most modern dilemmas, this problem requires a series of complex and humane solutions. Since we are at the start of a scream, grunt, tweet presidency, I would say that serious consideration of the solutions presented in this article are at least five to nine years away.
6
Dear Professor, the vast majority of folks crossing into, or from Canada are locals.
The rest are traveling on vacation, a far cry from the Southern border. The drug traffic passes very easily through these gateways.
The most effective tool for illegal immigration would be e-verify, an electronic wall for employers, landlords, DMV, and banks to quickly and easily verify a persons status.
Comparing the fiasco on our Southern border to the Canadian border is nonsense.
The rest are traveling on vacation, a far cry from the Southern border. The drug traffic passes very easily through these gateways.
The most effective tool for illegal immigration would be e-verify, an electronic wall for employers, landlords, DMV, and banks to quickly and easily verify a persons status.
Comparing the fiasco on our Southern border to the Canadian border is nonsense.
5
Well, this is an opinion piece written by someone who sees the borders through the eyes of someone based in Washington, D.C., Mexico City or Ottawa!! Both border regions (note the term "region") are complicated, vibrant, challenging and exasperating for all three countries. However, physical barriers and stationing folks with obvious guns is not the answer. You build a 20-foot wall and someone will bring a 22-foot ladder. You do pre-crossing inspections and someone will find a way to circumvent it. Would we allow armed Mexican police to inspect vehicles crossing into Mexico to see if they have guns? After all, most of violence there is committed with guns from the United States! As George Lopez says in one of his skits--you put alligators as a deterrent in the Rio Grande and someone will start selling alligator bags!!
Ultimately, we have to figure out why people in the US use drugs from Mexico and hire folks (some of whom are from countries other than Mexico) without papers. Mexico has to figure how to purge violence--which threatens civilian life in some places.
Trump's insistence on a wall is useless, expensive and intimidating, and worse shows ignorance of borders and how they function in national and international contexts. Hopefully, Trump won't do anything to make our borders more complicated than they already are.
Ultimately, we have to figure out why people in the US use drugs from Mexico and hire folks (some of whom are from countries other than Mexico) without papers. Mexico has to figure how to purge violence--which threatens civilian life in some places.
Trump's insistence on a wall is useless, expensive and intimidating, and worse shows ignorance of borders and how they function in national and international contexts. Hopefully, Trump won't do anything to make our borders more complicated than they already are.
5
Is this person serious? Pre-clearance only works with people who submit to it and are law abiding entrants. It can't be ubiquitous, to interdict illegal "immigrants" or it would be a wall of CBP agents.
When Kelly indicated that a wall is not enough. He meant NOT enough, not unnecessary. What he meant is that a wall is part of a system of enforcement measures. These must include: a visa entry/exit tracking system to curtail the visa overstayers who make up an estimated 40% of illegal "immigrants"; mandatory eVerify with auditing to curtail illegal employment; cracking down on Sanctuary cities; Secure Communities type programs to enlist the support of state and local police; and greater court system capacity to more expeditiously process deportations.
When Kelly indicated that a wall is not enough. He meant NOT enough, not unnecessary. What he meant is that a wall is part of a system of enforcement measures. These must include: a visa entry/exit tracking system to curtail the visa overstayers who make up an estimated 40% of illegal "immigrants"; mandatory eVerify with auditing to curtail illegal employment; cracking down on Sanctuary cities; Secure Communities type programs to enlist the support of state and local police; and greater court system capacity to more expeditiously process deportations.
3
The best way to thwart illegal immigration, if Republican politicians and their donors actually wanted to do so, would be to make the hiring of undocumented workers a matter of strict liability and subject to substantial penalties.
Strict enforcement of E-verify would cost ever so much less than building an ineffectual wall or deploying regiments of border guards.
As usual, those who complain most about a purported social evil are also those who have no desire to solve the problem.
Strict enforcement of E-verify would cost ever so much less than building an ineffectual wall or deploying regiments of border guards.
As usual, those who complain most about a purported social evil are also those who have no desire to solve the problem.
5
Some are saying that the number of people who illegally cross our border has dropped. This may be true. We have fewer economic opportunities for our own citizens and for legal immigrants, let alone for others.
Also, many have heard how well Trump’s promise to deport illegal immigrants has been received. It may have finally gotten through to them that we do not want them to come here without permission. They have been telling themselves that we were discriminating against them because of their race, and that they do the jobs that gringos don’t want. The truth is that we have been legally admitting more legal immigrants from Mexico than from any other country.
The myth that the undocumented take only the jobs that gringos disdain may allow the undocumented to rationalize their coming here to live, without permission. The fact is that Americans held the jobs before they came and will be glad to get them when they leave. American teens, young adults, legal immigrants who were just getting to know the country, and less educated adults used to have those jobs. Now many of them cannot find work. Less than a fifth of the undocumented work on farms. With the possible exception of them, we do not need foreign labor. The government could make it easier for farmers to temporarily bring in farm workers (without their families). Otherwise, Americans will be happy to take over the jobs now held by people who are here illegally.
Also, many have heard how well Trump’s promise to deport illegal immigrants has been received. It may have finally gotten through to them that we do not want them to come here without permission. They have been telling themselves that we were discriminating against them because of their race, and that they do the jobs that gringos don’t want. The truth is that we have been legally admitting more legal immigrants from Mexico than from any other country.
The myth that the undocumented take only the jobs that gringos disdain may allow the undocumented to rationalize their coming here to live, without permission. The fact is that Americans held the jobs before they came and will be glad to get them when they leave. American teens, young adults, legal immigrants who were just getting to know the country, and less educated adults used to have those jobs. Now many of them cannot find work. Less than a fifth of the undocumented work on farms. With the possible exception of them, we do not need foreign labor. The government could make it easier for farmers to temporarily bring in farm workers (without their families). Otherwise, Americans will be happy to take over the jobs now held by people who are here illegally.
5
Here's the way to get Mexico to pay for the wall:
Trump Organization makes a deal - a contract with Mexican company to build the wall and Trump Organization will pay for it. The wall is build, the bill comes in. Trump Organization refuses to pay it ("stiffs" the Mexicans). After all they have a great deal of experience of doing the same to American workers, such as those who worked on Trump's hotels. Additionally, Trump reports the amount of the bill as a legitimate business expense on it's next tax filing. Simple!
Trump Organization makes a deal - a contract with Mexican company to build the wall and Trump Organization will pay for it. The wall is build, the bill comes in. Trump Organization refuses to pay it ("stiffs" the Mexicans). After all they have a great deal of experience of doing the same to American workers, such as those who worked on Trump's hotels. Additionally, Trump reports the amount of the bill as a legitimate business expense on it's next tax filing. Simple!
5
On 7/10/16, the Texas Tribune ran an article titled Feds Tight-Lipped on Weeding Out Corrupt Border Agents by Neena Satija. It was one of a series of articles on how Mexico’s corruption has been reaching into the U.S. It said the Bush Administration hired thousands of new border patrol agents after the bombing of the World Trade Center. These agents were hired too quickly to have their backgrounds thoroughly examined. No one took the time to check to see if any of them had criminal backgrounds in other countries. Mexican crime organizations learned they could get their own people to apply for the jobs and get hired.
We have belatedly discovered that some of our border patrol agents are long-term members of drug cartels and other criminal organizations who smuggle illegal immigrants and contraband into our country. The point made by Texas Tribune article is that we do not know if the government has scrutinized every agent who was hired without adequate screening or if the government just goes after any agent who it happens to inadvertently catch behaving dishonestly. The government will not tell us what it is doing, perhaps because it is still not thoroughly vetting its agents. Apparently there is a turf war over which government agency is in charge - is it Homeland Security, the F.B.I., or the Inspector General of Customs and Border Patrol?
We have belatedly discovered that some of our border patrol agents are long-term members of drug cartels and other criminal organizations who smuggle illegal immigrants and contraband into our country. The point made by Texas Tribune article is that we do not know if the government has scrutinized every agent who was hired without adequate screening or if the government just goes after any agent who it happens to inadvertently catch behaving dishonestly. The government will not tell us what it is doing, perhaps because it is still not thoroughly vetting its agents. Apparently there is a turf war over which government agency is in charge - is it Homeland Security, the F.B.I., or the Inspector General of Customs and Border Patrol?
2
Good point Ann: It reminds me of the 16 yr.old Mexican teenager killed by a U.S. Border Patrol Agent firing through the border fence that separates Nogales Arizona and Nogales, Mexico (Ten Shots Across the Border, NYT Magazine, March 6, 2016).
2
People sneaking into this country don't use customs, do they? That would be news to me. The debate is disingenuous.
The actual fight is over whether to bother to take the border seriously, or not. If it is to be taken seriously then any and all measures should be in play and a shotgun approach should be applied. Therefore debate over "a better way" is sleight of hand. If is not to be taken seriously, then nibble about the corners, invokes caveats and excuses, pander to interests, delay, and honestly enough leave what may be (and is for many) well enough alone.
The cost problem is ridiculous. We blow so much money on worthless endeavors, like shipping tanks to Poland in counter productive saber rattling, that to invoke cost is simply argumentation not reasoning. A wall would be a partial wall in any case, place where it helps, and with the money invested spent here. And if cost is the thing then calculate the cost of the damage done by the hard dope from Mexico. If that were done then any cost would be reasonable.
The actual fight is over whether to bother to take the border seriously, or not. If it is to be taken seriously then any and all measures should be in play and a shotgun approach should be applied. Therefore debate over "a better way" is sleight of hand. If is not to be taken seriously, then nibble about the corners, invokes caveats and excuses, pander to interests, delay, and honestly enough leave what may be (and is for many) well enough alone.
The cost problem is ridiculous. We blow so much money on worthless endeavors, like shipping tanks to Poland in counter productive saber rattling, that to invoke cost is simply argumentation not reasoning. A wall would be a partial wall in any case, place where it helps, and with the money invested spent here. And if cost is the thing then calculate the cost of the damage done by the hard dope from Mexico. If that were done then any cost would be reasonable.
2
People cross the borders illegally because there is money to be made.
As long as corporations in the US hire illegal aliens, people will cross the border to get those jobs. (I use the term illegal because their lack of rights due to their status is what makes them valuable to employers) If a wall is built more resources will simply go to corrupting border agents, already a problem.
Supply side economics does not work. You must cut demand by prosecuting CEOs that hire illegals. Both the Republican wall and Democratic amnesty are fake solutions designed to maintain the status quo, while they pretend to be on different sides. Increased legal immigration will grow the economy, but immigrant labor would not be cheaper than local labor.
The drug war has been chewing up our border since it began almost fifty years ago. Like prohibition it rewards violent criminals with insane amounts of money they can use to evade any obstacle. Legalize, regulate, and tax drugs so they can flow through border check points legally. Treat addicts for far less money than we spend in the drug war.
The demand for illegal workers and drugs smashes holes through the border for terrorists to walk through. End the drug war and stop hiring illegals and the border becomes more secure.
As long as corporations in the US hire illegal aliens, people will cross the border to get those jobs. (I use the term illegal because their lack of rights due to their status is what makes them valuable to employers) If a wall is built more resources will simply go to corrupting border agents, already a problem.
Supply side economics does not work. You must cut demand by prosecuting CEOs that hire illegals. Both the Republican wall and Democratic amnesty are fake solutions designed to maintain the status quo, while they pretend to be on different sides. Increased legal immigration will grow the economy, but immigrant labor would not be cheaper than local labor.
The drug war has been chewing up our border since it began almost fifty years ago. Like prohibition it rewards violent criminals with insane amounts of money they can use to evade any obstacle. Legalize, regulate, and tax drugs so they can flow through border check points legally. Treat addicts for far less money than we spend in the drug war.
The demand for illegal workers and drugs smashes holes through the border for terrorists to walk through. End the drug war and stop hiring illegals and the border becomes more secure.
3
Presidential candidate Trump and President-elect Trump has never given a coherent rationale for building the wall on the US-Mexico border, much less any reason whatsoever why Mexico should pay for it. This is because there is no rationale for threatening and bullying Mexico into paying for a border security structure that Trump's supporters want to satisfy their anger at Mexico, which he has stoked to get votes. Trump is oblivious to the damage that the rhetoric about the wall does to our diplomatic relationship with Mexico, which has been cooperative and friendly, for the most part, for decades. Trump's belligerence toward Mexico is likely to push Mexican politics sharply to the left, since Mexican voters will respond to politicians with strong anti-American views who offer them hope of restoring their wounded sense of national sovereignty and dignity. Like Pope Francis said during the presidential election campaign, we must support leaders who build bridges, not walls. I'm glad to see Trump's nominee to head the Department of Homeland Security talking sense and distancing himself from the Bully-in-Chief in regard to how to cooperate with our neighboring countries through diplomacy and mutual respect.
6
"The wall" is of great symbolic importance...and will solve nothing. It falls under the heading, "Sounds good. Isn't good."
Two of the biggest ways to enter the US illegally now involve, first, overstaying a visa, student or otherwise and, two, entering legally with, in many cases, fraudulent justification supplied by an employer or another third party. Why wouldn't people use these tactics? The potential rewards are high, the risk low. With attention focused on the southern border, the gates are otherwise wide open.
It is fair to ask whether there is too much immigration, legal and illegal, at this time. How many people can be reasonably absorbed into American ways and culture? At what point could the foreign born become like a walled off community in which hostility toward the native born and immigrants could build to an explosion?
We need immigration. We need people looking at our economy with new eyes and seeing opportunity over discouragement of the native born that leads to lack of engagement and lack of effort. Immigrants help to renew America and, one hopes, the vitality of the American dream, however defined.
It appears at the moment that we are out of balance because we have failed to address this issue in a reasonable, comprehensible way. Employers are flooding the country with foreign workers who will work cheaper and complain less. A border wall is popular because it involves hitting back at the weak who, when here, take the hardest, lowest paying jobs
5
I don't think DJT has purchased or built any brick factories lately. You're really talking about a virtual fence between the U.S. and Canada. A fence is a barrier to impede unwanted entry. Doesn't matter whether its made of electrons or bricks or mud or wood or wire. A fence is a fence even if virtual and physically invisible. Trump, like most Americans, wants to minimize unwanted entries. The fence Trump and others want may be invisible. That's the best kind. Invisible fences require thoughtful communication between neighbors ... like Texas or California and Mexico. And that thoughtful communication has been lacking since the days of Reagan. Neither Dems nor Pubs are good communicators who just want to fling feces at each other Why didn't Hillary Clinton take up residence in Mexico City to negotiate an agreement with our neighbors to the south? Her failure to do so points to her inadequate understanding of this nation's problems with the real issues of immigration which were and are solvable. Lets hope (and pray) for more wisdom within the Trump Administration. Here in New Mexico I don't bother to ask my neighbors for documentation. We don't have time to discuss such issues because we're busy working hard to earn a decent living.
1
Why even build the wall when you could do one simple thing to make illegal immigration end.
Make e-verify the law and throw every employer of illegal immigrants in prison. Liberald love the line that illegal immigrants do the jobs Americans dont want to do. That is the most facetious and shortsighted statement that liberals make in my opinion.
Even IF that is true (I know a lot of drywallers and carpenters who would disagree), Liberals are basically saying that its ok for an employer to use and abuse illegal immigrants by not giving them workplace protections and fair wages. By abusing their workers, employers can be more competitive and undermine other employers who have legal immigrants or citizens and have to pay more to protect and pay them. Thia drives a vicous circle that makes it so that the other employers start abusing illegals in order to not go out of business. Thats how jobs like drywaller went from $25/hr to $12/hr, thats why farms can pay their employees $10/hr to pick cotton and then complain that citizens wont take those jobs.
I voted for Obama twice. I love liberalism. However, liberalisms obsession with open borders is going to cost them every four years. Of my friends who voted for Trump, most had illegal immigration as their number 1 or number 2 reason. My Dad, who loves me even though Im transgender and is not racist either, voted Trump bc of immigration. Its not racist to want to have good wages and protections for everyone in America.
Make e-verify the law and throw every employer of illegal immigrants in prison. Liberald love the line that illegal immigrants do the jobs Americans dont want to do. That is the most facetious and shortsighted statement that liberals make in my opinion.
Even IF that is true (I know a lot of drywallers and carpenters who would disagree), Liberals are basically saying that its ok for an employer to use and abuse illegal immigrants by not giving them workplace protections and fair wages. By abusing their workers, employers can be more competitive and undermine other employers who have legal immigrants or citizens and have to pay more to protect and pay them. Thia drives a vicous circle that makes it so that the other employers start abusing illegals in order to not go out of business. Thats how jobs like drywaller went from $25/hr to $12/hr, thats why farms can pay their employees $10/hr to pick cotton and then complain that citizens wont take those jobs.
I voted for Obama twice. I love liberalism. However, liberalisms obsession with open borders is going to cost them every four years. Of my friends who voted for Trump, most had illegal immigration as their number 1 or number 2 reason. My Dad, who loves me even though Im transgender and is not racist either, voted Trump bc of immigration. Its not racist to want to have good wages and protections for everyone in America.
2
This is a very short sighted article. What a wall can and will supply, beyond a definite delineated border, is traversable infrastructure for both support and maintenance purposes. Additionally, this much needed infrastructure can provide a springboard for the Economies of the Southern Regions of our Border States.
Additionally, Mexico's legitimacy as a Sovereign Nation is very much in question as the Cartels have essentially usurped the authority away from and now impose it upon the Northern region of that country. We cannot count on the Mexican government to prevail in what is essentially a Civil War, however "UNDECLARED" it may be.
Mexico's problems are Mexico's problems: That is a sad statement to have to make, but it has to be made. And, we should definitely look at ways of helping them mitigate their problems down the road. But, not before we do what we can do to prevent their issues from effecting us negatively.
The one point that I will recognize that is Valid is that Drug-Mules do go through Customs stations and are often apprehended as a result. Where Mr. Kelly's argument goes awry is that he equates Coyotes (Also responsible for the illegal importation of various illicit drugs) as doing the same thing and the simple fact is that they do not go through Customs Stations or recognized Port Authorities. The Wall needs to be built for a variety of reasons, and we should stop procrastinating on the issues at hand.
Additionally, Mexico's legitimacy as a Sovereign Nation is very much in question as the Cartels have essentially usurped the authority away from and now impose it upon the Northern region of that country. We cannot count on the Mexican government to prevail in what is essentially a Civil War, however "UNDECLARED" it may be.
Mexico's problems are Mexico's problems: That is a sad statement to have to make, but it has to be made. And, we should definitely look at ways of helping them mitigate their problems down the road. But, not before we do what we can do to prevent their issues from effecting us negatively.
The one point that I will recognize that is Valid is that Drug-Mules do go through Customs stations and are often apprehended as a result. Where Mr. Kelly's argument goes awry is that he equates Coyotes (Also responsible for the illegal importation of various illicit drugs) as doing the same thing and the simple fact is that they do not go through Customs Stations or recognized Port Authorities. The Wall needs to be built for a variety of reasons, and we should stop procrastinating on the issues at hand.
3
This article, while insightful in many ways misses the obvious point. If there is money to be made by trafficing in people or drugs, our borders are going to crossed illegally whether you build a wall or not.
First enforce the laws that are already on the books which prohibit companies and individuals from hiring people who are in the country illegally. If that means throwing corporate CEOs, farmers and well to do suburban housewives in the slammer so be it. If there is no job and with it the hope of a better life waiting at the end of the long trek through the desert then very few people are going to be interested in making that journey.
Second let's admit that the war on drugs has failed. Legalize, regulate and tax marijuana and treat addiction to other drugs as the health problem that it is. No one is running booze across our southern border even though tequila is far cheaper in Mexico than it is here. The rewards are simply not worth the risk.
Our border situaltion is exactly what the leaders of both parties want it to be. Pro-business Republicans cater to the wishes of business owners who are always in the market for cheap labor. Democrats, also senstive to the needs of their wealthy donors and blinded by the pipe dream of demographic changes that could put them back in the majority have also been complicit in keeping the floodgates open and in the process undermining the incomes and alienating many of their former working class supporters.
First enforce the laws that are already on the books which prohibit companies and individuals from hiring people who are in the country illegally. If that means throwing corporate CEOs, farmers and well to do suburban housewives in the slammer so be it. If there is no job and with it the hope of a better life waiting at the end of the long trek through the desert then very few people are going to be interested in making that journey.
Second let's admit that the war on drugs has failed. Legalize, regulate and tax marijuana and treat addiction to other drugs as the health problem that it is. No one is running booze across our southern border even though tequila is far cheaper in Mexico than it is here. The rewards are simply not worth the risk.
Our border situaltion is exactly what the leaders of both parties want it to be. Pro-business Republicans cater to the wishes of business owners who are always in the market for cheap labor. Democrats, also senstive to the needs of their wealthy donors and blinded by the pipe dream of demographic changes that could put them back in the majority have also been complicit in keeping the floodgates open and in the process undermining the incomes and alienating many of their former working class supporters.
1
People can't have healthcare, but taxpayers need to pay for a Mexican Wall?
Take me away.....
Take me away.....
2
Extend our borders into other countries? That is a very Stalin approach to national security.
5
When you don't have anything to offer but you want to get a rise, invoke one of the giants of totalitarianism. Everyone will be impressed.
Does anyone remember E-verify. Why does no one ever bring that up anymore?
21
Firstly because it has serious problems as shown here https://www.cato.org/blog/serious-problems-e-verify and secondly because it needs to be part of a comprehensive immigration reform bill so you don't disrupt the economy further by taking jobs away from 11 million.
Let's just put the 82nd Airborne (or pick your own military division or two) in Mexico, problem solved.
4
No need for the Wall. Once The Donald succeeds in wrecking the US economy, no one will want to come here anyway.
31
It will be interesting to see the proposal for "the wall" through the middle of Lake Falcon Reservoir (Texas/Mexico), over 40 miles long. It would eliminate the need for a Mexican fishing license for those seeking the incredibly big large mouth bass - if they survive.
2
This is all too funny.
BTW, the author misquoted Kelly.
What Kelly said, a wall in itself will not stop illegal crossing into the U.S and that there needs to be greater effort to stopping these people before the reach the border. We could discourage by telling them that we will turn them away. Letting them know that DACA ACA will be repealed and that there is no pardon to be given...
The fact is, borders work and will work in this case.
Case in point:
Last summer, migrants inside Greece were flooding into Macedonia in their quest to Western Europe. Within weeks, the Macedonian government erected borders and the problem went away.
The point is, plugging a hole limits or decreases the undesired inflow/outflow.
BTW, the author misquoted Kelly.
What Kelly said, a wall in itself will not stop illegal crossing into the U.S and that there needs to be greater effort to stopping these people before the reach the border. We could discourage by telling them that we will turn them away. Letting them know that DACA ACA will be repealed and that there is no pardon to be given...
The fact is, borders work and will work in this case.
Case in point:
Last summer, migrants inside Greece were flooding into Macedonia in their quest to Western Europe. Within weeks, the Macedonian government erected borders and the problem went away.
The point is, plugging a hole limits or decreases the undesired inflow/outflow.
10
There are better ways to do EVERYTHING that humpty trumpty proposes to do. He's speaking to the delusional uninformed, and the cravenly greedy, don't forget.
14
Illegal immigration from Mexico is down 75 to 90% from first Bush term when there were 1.7 million a year, now down to less than 200,000. There has been a net zero or less Mexican immigration for almost a decade. The majority of the illegals in the US are those persons who fly into the country and overstay their visas. To stop this, Trump needs a dome not a wall.
The Wall is a gimmick used to fool the low-information Trump voter, and if they proceed and build it, The Wall will turn out to be a multibillion dollar boondoggle primed for massive corruption and waste of taxpayer money.
The Wall is a gimmick used to fool the low-information Trump voter, and if they proceed and build it, The Wall will turn out to be a multibillion dollar boondoggle primed for massive corruption and waste of taxpayer money.
49
Mexican nationals are no longer leaving the United States now that the economy is improving. Illegal immigration from Mexico is down, but illegal immigration from Central America is up. However, 200,000 illegal Mexican immigrants is still a lot of illegal immigrants. That's two million a decade. Philadelphia, the nation's fight largest city, has a population of only about 1.5 million. In two decades, there would be four million illegal Mexican immigrants, more than the population of Las Angeles, our second largest city. And of course, that's immigrants from just one country.
1
Actually, there are five (5) (NSA, FBI, CIA, Pentagon and Homeland Security): So what is needed is a better organized, educated and knowledgeable department which will track non-citizens when they enter the country. The 'student-permits' one big joke, airline non-citizen passengers who disappear from the radar, . . too many federal security departments who are reputed to loathe communication between their agencies. Hopefully, the president - elect will clean up the U.S. security mess which has run amok with laziness, lack of professionalism and failure to understand the Mission for security agencies.
Yes and it will probably be built by a fake corporation owned by Trump through an offshore account, probably in Delaware. Your taxes straight into his wallet.
And don't dare to criticize because now that Obama has made it easy to tap your communications and to treat activists like terrorists, Trump will use that power liberally.
And don't dare to criticize because now that Obama has made it easy to tap your communications and to treat activists like terrorists, Trump will use that power liberally.
1
Comparing Canada to Mexico is comparing apples to avocados.
We could never have the same legitimate cooperation from Mexico as we do with Canada.
It is in Mexico's best interest to send as many of their citizens as possible north to the wide open USA. Especially the poor undesirables and criminals. Mexico's economy is based on remittances from the US. Canada has no where near the same level of corruption nor citizens clamouring to get over the border. Although there is more and more human trafficking coming from north of the border.
We'll soon see what will be enforced at our borders. I don't think the Mexican government or their rich elites are going to be very happy. Too bad.
We could never have the same legitimate cooperation from Mexico as we do with Canada.
It is in Mexico's best interest to send as many of their citizens as possible north to the wide open USA. Especially the poor undesirables and criminals. Mexico's economy is based on remittances from the US. Canada has no where near the same level of corruption nor citizens clamouring to get over the border. Although there is more and more human trafficking coming from north of the border.
We'll soon see what will be enforced at our borders. I don't think the Mexican government or their rich elites are going to be very happy. Too bad.
18
Your rich elites will not be happy either. They hire illegals so that they can use them against citizens. Your wall will not stop them. The criminals that smuggle aliens and drugs will put more money toward corrupting the border patrol. Doug money is more than enough to punch holes in any wall.
Supply side economics doesn't work. Demand in the billions of dollars creates supply, and gives it the ingenuity to defeat your wall.
Remember the Maginot Line, France's impenetrable border with Germany. Walls are static and have generally fallen out of use since the cannon was invented.
Legalize drugs and increase legal immigration to solve the border problem.
Supply side economics doesn't work. Demand in the billions of dollars creates supply, and gives it the ingenuity to defeat your wall.
Remember the Maginot Line, France's impenetrable border with Germany. Walls are static and have generally fallen out of use since the cannon was invented.
Legalize drugs and increase legal immigration to solve the border problem.
1
Agreed, but all the more reason to use any means available.
1
At the rate the Trump Administration is shaping up, this border wall may be necessary to keep people IN, not out. An American Berlin Wall.
37
Hah! Perhaps Trump will set up expedited citizenship renunciation centers in places with extreme need for them, Hollywood for example.
1
Can't help wondering -- ever since Trump first proposed that "beautiful... tremendous... fantastic... very high wall that Mexico will pay for":
What about the "illegal immigrants" who enter BEYOND the wall, via the Gulf of Mexico or the Atlantic Ocean or the Pacific Ocean???
That would become their obvious alternative. Yes/no?
What about the "illegal immigrants" who enter BEYOND the wall, via the Gulf of Mexico or the Atlantic Ocean or the Pacific Ocean???
That would become their obvious alternative. Yes/no?
5
Unless the pistol packing US agents intend to use those guns on someone they are useless... just more accouterments for these guys. Let one of these US agents kill a non-threatening unarmed Canadian and this whole thing will come down tumbling when the Canadian government will have to pay millions of dollars to that family. I haven't traveled to the US since 1999 and frankly I do not care to: there is NOTHING in the USA that we do not have here!
14
One of Trump's first business deals is to attack Canada's Dairy Farmers. Snow birds need to stay home and with-hold their money from Florida is Trump attacks us economically as he plans to.http://www.calgarysun.com/2017/01/12/us-dairy-groups-urge-trump-to-set-s...
Tell that to the hundreds of thousands Canadian snowbirds who fly to Florida every winter. :)
Never going to be built. Trump will backtrack on the wall like he'll back track on every promise he made.
5
Building a wall along the USA/Mexican border is not only a waste of money, but also totally idiotic. The only thing it achieves is feeding the HUGE ego of the Clueless-In-Chief. To him its another Trump Tower looming over the landscape. Will he top the wall with HUGE letters spelling out his name?
10
I doubt it, Mexico can only afford to pay for the basics.
1
The best long term and cheapest way to regulate tourism, resident aliens, and student is to issue a National Identity Card (NIC) to all citizens, and to all who cross the border legally. This card will inform any police officer of the status of subject person and will be used by banks ,landlords, employers and medical services personnel to ferret out anybody here illegally. The local police would arrest and detain subject person and turn them over to ICE. The NIC would also be used by voting machines to verify the identity of voters.
9
Alan--We don't need to verify the identity of voters, in this way. That's another one of the humpty trumpty, Republican lies, which YOU are repeating. So, how can we believe any other thing you ever say? Once a liar, always a liar.
1
Ever since the Nazis made "your papers please," a famous movie line, Americans have been against a national ID.
Besides, anything that makes it harder to hire illegals will be opposed by the business elite, including your wall.
Besides, anything that makes it harder to hire illegals will be opposed by the business elite, including your wall.
2
Trump doesn't care about effectiveness, he cares about spectacle. The Wall is a symbol and rallying cry for his base.
95
He does not even care about the reality of building a wall. It is all about the spectacle, just the talking about it.
5
You cannot compare Canada with Mexico. Most Canadians don't want to live illegally in the States. There are some for sure, but not as many as South Americans and Mexicans. Also, the problems that are drugs, gangs and illegal workers reside with the southern borders.
Trump got elected for many reasons, and I think chief among them illegal immigration.
As for Canadians disliking guns, that is a fact but nobody would object having pre clearance by armed border agents. Our own border agents are armed.
Trump got elected for many reasons, and I think chief among them illegal immigration.
As for Canadians disliking guns, that is a fact but nobody would object having pre clearance by armed border agents. Our own border agents are armed.
3
William--trump can't think his way out of a wet paper bag. Just like his voters. I prefer to listen to those who actually know something about the subject.
1
Since the net flow of immigration has been heading out of the USA, isn't there a chance that the Great Wall of Freedom will trap some on the wrong side of the border?
4
You're forgetting the "big, beautiful doors"...
We can do both. A wall cannot be built along the entire 1200 miles of southern border. But there are areas where it is needed.
10
Make sense. But hey - let's build a wall any way. Perhaps Trump should pay for it with all the money he has saved from federal tax evasion. Good God what has become of this country
10
Well, it's evident from some comments here that many seem more interested in finding creative ways to insult Mr. Trump than to actually do something about the multitudes of illegal immigrants crossing our southern border every year. And these are the same ones who just throw up their hands and proclaim there's nothing we can do about it, anyway. So, just like their counterparts in Europe who have resigned themselves to the invasion of their countries from all over the world, leading to the disruption of their own societies, destabilizing Europe, would open our borders to all seekers because...... there's nothing we can do about it, anyway?
So, how long will it be before the ones currently invading Europe get smugglers to take them to our southern border? They already travel thousands of miles from the middle east and places like the Sudan and Libya to Australia. You've read about it right here in the Times. Oh, right. There's nothing we can do about it. Are these the same folks who advise women to just lay back and enjoy it because, you know, there's nothing we can do about rape, anyway?
So, how long will it be before the ones currently invading Europe get smugglers to take them to our southern border? They already travel thousands of miles from the middle east and places like the Sudan and Libya to Australia. You've read about it right here in the Times. Oh, right. There's nothing we can do about it. Are these the same folks who advise women to just lay back and enjoy it because, you know, there's nothing we can do about rape, anyway?
18
RichD--Doesn't take an once of creativity to insult that moron-in-chief-elect. Just state the facts. YOU just perceive them as insults.
1
Drugs are Mr. Kelly's issue. Immigration is mine. And I will no longer be diverted from my issue.
11
The most sensible thing to do is to immediately expel all illegal aliens from our country. It just makes good sense.
20
"Preclearing trucks away from the border?"
Brilliant!
And then smugglers, terrorists, general crazies, can all remove/reinstall a truck panel, change all the contents, and sail through the border?
Safe! I feel better already. Those with bad intent rarely have clever ideas anyway! Or am I mistaken? Hmmm.
Lot's of good ideas and developments cited. This particular one seems very (very!) far off base.
Brilliant!
And then smugglers, terrorists, general crazies, can all remove/reinstall a truck panel, change all the contents, and sail through the border?
Safe! I feel better already. Those with bad intent rarely have clever ideas anyway! Or am I mistaken? Hmmm.
Lot's of good ideas and developments cited. This particular one seems very (very!) far off base.
6
Then there is the inconvenient truth that net border crossings last year were toward Mexico, not the US. A wall would have kept the crossers in, not out.
13
John--Lots of people, around the world, have decided that this isn't the wonderful place they thought it was. A dose of regressive Republican reality.
2
OR - we could arrest with mandatory jail time, anyone who hires an illegal immigrant. Implement a true E*Verify system and follow it with no exceptions. Won't stop all of it, but after a few high-profile jail sentences dry up the jobs market, we'll certainly see some self-deportation I would think. This could be coupled with immigration status checks at emergency rooms. Watch the "progressives" heads explode.
35
If by "heads explode" you are referring to realizing that this boondoggle of a wall is a waste of time, money, and our precious capital as a free democracy, yes, I suppose some heads might explode. However, I think it's much more likely that the "exploding" will be the heads of Trump voters, when they realize the wall won't and can't be built, when they lose their Obamacare health benefits such as having their children on their insurance policies until the age of 26 and the ban on pre-existing conditions, and especially when the true relationship with Putin is revealed, never mind the latest gross accusations.
President Elect Trump- Release your tax returns. DO it now, before it's too late for America.
President Elect Trump- Release your tax returns. DO it now, before it's too late for America.
4
What kind of wall do we need to preserve and protect our divine natural equal certain unalienable rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in a civil secular divided limited power democratic American republic?
The Atlantic Ocean was a useless barrier against invading and occupying hordes from Europe with their Bibles, guns and enslaved African property who denied the humanity of the natives.
The Great Wall of China was useless against the Han, the Mongols, the Manchus, the British and the Japanese.
There are more German Americans than there are any other kind of Americans. Among them is the grandson of a criminal cowardly German military draft dodger who came to America to avoid prosecution named Donald Trump. While another grandson is named David Eisenhower an heir to Dwight. Trump is married to his 2nd Slavic communist atheist model wife. Eisenhower married Richard Nixon's youngest daughter.
What we need in America is far fewer Americans like Donald and Melania. And more like David and Julie.
Better still we need more Americans like Barack Obama, Steve Jobs, Sergei Brin, Jerry Yang, Werner Von Braun, Albert Einstein, Hans Bethe, Amy Goodman, Bernie Sanders, Colin Powell , Morris Dees etc.
The Atlantic Ocean was a useless barrier against invading and occupying hordes from Europe with their Bibles, guns and enslaved African property who denied the humanity of the natives.
The Great Wall of China was useless against the Han, the Mongols, the Manchus, the British and the Japanese.
There are more German Americans than there are any other kind of Americans. Among them is the grandson of a criminal cowardly German military draft dodger who came to America to avoid prosecution named Donald Trump. While another grandson is named David Eisenhower an heir to Dwight. Trump is married to his 2nd Slavic communist atheist model wife. Eisenhower married Richard Nixon's youngest daughter.
What we need in America is far fewer Americans like Donald and Melania. And more like David and Julie.
Better still we need more Americans like Barack Obama, Steve Jobs, Sergei Brin, Jerry Yang, Werner Von Braun, Albert Einstein, Hans Bethe, Amy Goodman, Bernie Sanders, Colin Powell , Morris Dees etc.
16
The Great Wall and Hadrian's Wall and even the Maginot Line were not "useless." They worked.
They were not cost effective. They were not complete solutions. But they did have positive effects, they were force multipliers.
However, a force multiplier can only multiply force. The force needs to be there to be multiplied.
A border wall is not a solution. It is an aid to enforcement, which is a much bigger project.
They were not cost effective. They were not complete solutions. But they did have positive effects, they were force multipliers.
However, a force multiplier can only multiply force. The force needs to be there to be multiplied.
A border wall is not a solution. It is an aid to enforcement, which is a much bigger project.
8
Great idea, let's keep out people with Bibles, communists, and atheists. Thanks to the Times for providing a forum for such ideas. And let's throw in keeping out Slavs! And of course models, geez don't start me on the pernicious effects that foreign models have on the U.S. The next thing I will see is the
First Lady on the cover of Vogue. Before Melania, liberals would gleefully say "you know Michelle could be a model." I guess now being a real model is a bad thing.
First Lady on the cover of Vogue. Before Melania, liberals would gleefully say "you know Michelle could be a model." I guess now being a real model is a bad thing.
2
blackmamba--EXCELLENT COMMENT! Thanks for your thoughts.
2
Right...because Canada and Mexico are so much alike. Sharing a border makes it so, no? Sorry, but the endemic corruption and associated problems in Mexico (crime, racism, poverty, etc.) makes it a far cry from the "reasonableness" of dealing with Canada and its citizenry. What an absurd article.
41
And why are "illegals" coming North across the border?
Just stop any morning outside your local "big box home goods retailer' and watch the "recruitment" of illegals to do grunt work at farms, building sites,landscaping, etc.
Want to put a dent in this? No wall but incarceration for anyone caught hiring "illegals". I know, those folks contribute heavily to local "politicians" and it wouldn't do to have the rich jailed versus the poor, they don't have a PAC buying them protection.
Just stop any morning outside your local "big box home goods retailer' and watch the "recruitment" of illegals to do grunt work at farms, building sites,landscaping, etc.
Want to put a dent in this? No wall but incarceration for anyone caught hiring "illegals". I know, those folks contribute heavily to local "politicians" and it wouldn't do to have the rich jailed versus the poor, they don't have a PAC buying them protection.
59
I lived behind the Berlin Wall, and it wasn't the Wall that kept people out (or, in), it was the guards, and the Watchtowers...and the dogs.
Donald Trump truly knows little about the human psyche.
Where there is a Wall, there is also the equally stong urge to overcome it.
What he continues to show us, is that his plans are more like a selling points, but with no clearly thought out way of how to execute it.
At this point, only one thing is clear.
A Wall won't work.
Donald Trump truly knows little about the human psyche.
Where there is a Wall, there is also the equally stong urge to overcome it.
What he continues to show us, is that his plans are more like a selling points, but with no clearly thought out way of how to execute it.
At this point, only one thing is clear.
A Wall won't work.
40
Walls work if they are properly built and manned. I think we should have watchtowers on the wall to better keep an eye on efforts to cross illegally. You just have to be tough and strong about the punishment for anyone crossing -- like push them right back into Mexico. Those who cross illegally are nothing but asylum shoppers.
2
What will work is taking the handcuffs off the border patrol and ICE.
1
Half of all Mexicans -- over fifty million people -- would like to move here. The vast majority of such people neither speak English nor have a high school diploma, making them unqualified for the needs of labor force. Are they all entitled to come here? Or just those who voluntarily break our immigration laws? Where does it end? When this country is yet another Latino nation?
Canada has immigration laws based on skills and language fluency. Why aren't we allowed the same right?
Canada has immigration laws based on skills and language fluency. Why aren't we allowed the same right?
30
Where did your ancestors come from? And why were they allowed in?
2
Take it from a citizen of both the United States and Canada: we Americans don't like government. That's why we don't have straightforward, functioning, and evenly enforced immigration laws.
2
Do you have any sources for your claim about Mexicans or is it just the way it feels to you?
The easiest way to secure the border is to let illegal immigrants know we plan on enforcing our laws. Once they know we aren't giving them a wink and a nod, the problem will take care of itself.
12
A wall is noting more than a huge boondoggle. Instead of fixing our country, we're going to waste billions on building a wall. Drone technology will make a wall obsolete years before it's even finished. It's a deplorable fantasy, a waste of money, and will cost us as taxpayers.
5
The "war on drugs" fiasco. I guess we have taken this disaster so deeply into our brains that we can't even imagine a way to take away the motivation to smuggle drugs across the border. Here's a hint: most of these cartels are in it for the money. If we demilitarized our drug war that would be a huge step forward. If we normalized our immigration procedures in a similar spirit, that would be... civilized. But it looks like enough of us want to cower behind a wall... goodbye to the old fashioned "don't fence me in" spirit, now it's, oh, please, protect us with a high wall, it's too open and free out here.
4
Exactly. The libertarians figured that out a long time ago. But unfortunately the idea didn't trickle down to the rest of the right.
End the war on drugs, no more gangs, no more cartel activity.
End the war on drugs, no more gangs, no more cartel activity.
3
You can't compare Canada to a corrupt, toothless and feckless Mexico. An automated border with weapons to cover air, ground and below ground with a 100 yard kill zone would soon end many problems, as would cutting off all Government monies to Mexico. Mexico has proven time and again, she is not a friend of the United States.
11
First step is for the Federal Government to enforce immigration law. Second is to eliminate "sanctuaries" for illegal immigrants. Third, step is to aggressively deport illegal immigrants when they are caught. Forth is to charge border and home countries a cost plus fee for each illegal processed. Fifth... build a wall.
19
Ever wonder why why folks can wander the 27 countries of the EU without being subject to interrogations and all that, while travelers between USA and Canada are subject to interrogation, sometimes intense? Who wants it this way?
The police do, the federal police. Every day thousands of us must step into the cop shop, delayed and possibly hassled.
More than anything else, our border guards are embellums of state power.
The police do, the federal police. Every day thousands of us must step into the cop shop, delayed and possibly hassled.
More than anything else, our border guards are embellums of state power.
3
I can only say that if people like Kelly and Tillerson keep the word they are giving to Congress, this administration stands a slim chance of not being a catastrophe. On the other hand, if they really implement what they are telling Congress are their beliefs, they will probably be fired in less than a year!
It also allows American officials to grill travelers who don’t like the way their questioning is going before they withdraw from a preclearance area.
This sounds life forcible detention by American operatives on Canadian soil. Thanks for the heads up, because now there's a better chance this offensive provision isn't going anywhere.
This sounds life forcible detention by American operatives on Canadian soil. Thanks for the heads up, because now there's a better chance this offensive provision isn't going anywhere.
4
How would we put this policy into a Trump sound-bite--"we are going to sign a pre-clearance agreement with Mexico." No, that won't work. No, we will build a wall, a huge wall, a magnificent wall, which Mexico will pay for--now that works.
3
China built a great wall that still stands in most places and is visible from space. Ask the Chinese how that worked out for them.
4
The best way to decrease immigration from Mexico, Central, and South America is to use our skills to improve the standard of living in those countries.
5
We have improved the living standard of every country to the extent of diminishing those in the US! That's why Trump got elected.
I agree with you, Wade.
Anything that adds a layer of security while showing consideration for people is to be applauded. But there are two very different ways of screening travelers, respectfully and courteously or disrespectfully and discourteously. I have been treated both ways by American Customs officers. I have missed flights because I’ve been sent to secondary screening where I’ve had to sit and wait for 2-3 hours until I was finally cleared. Guess how I was treated that time and how I felt.
This is a ridiculous proposal. Mexico is rife with corruption at every level. The idea that illegal immigration and drug will be curbed by “cooperation” with Mexico is utterly bankrupt.
A wall will not slow flow the drugs, which are hidden in the flow commercial products, but it will help slow illegal immigration.
A wall will not slow flow the drugs, which are hidden in the flow commercial products, but it will help slow illegal immigration.
7
It seems as if the writer did not understand what was meant with the statement "A physical barrier in and of itself will not do the job", and that the real problem is the flow of drugs etc. across the border. The statement that a barrier "in and of itself will not do the job" did not mean that it doesn't solve anything and should not be built.
It meant that even if the border itself is walled off and not wide open as it is now, it will not solve the whole problem since drugs can still make their way to America even if the border is not left wide open as it is now.
The only drug that the cartels risk carrying across the border is marijuana. And that is because since marijuana is cheap it if its intercepted by border patrol it is not a major loss.
However drugs such as cocaine, heroin and crystal meth, which are both allot more valuable than marijuana and also take up much less space, are not carried over the border and risk confiscation by border patrol officers. Rather they are shipped using much more sophisticated methods. Cartels use planes from which they drop the drugs from the plane before they land, or they tow the drugs in an underwater torpedo which they can disconnect in case the boat is stopped for inspection, and the use of tunnels.
And so in order to stop the flow of drugs a wall in and of itself will not suffice to do the job. And so additional means are also necessary to keep them out of the US.
It meant that even if the border itself is walled off and not wide open as it is now, it will not solve the whole problem since drugs can still make their way to America even if the border is not left wide open as it is now.
The only drug that the cartels risk carrying across the border is marijuana. And that is because since marijuana is cheap it if its intercepted by border patrol it is not a major loss.
However drugs such as cocaine, heroin and crystal meth, which are both allot more valuable than marijuana and also take up much less space, are not carried over the border and risk confiscation by border patrol officers. Rather they are shipped using much more sophisticated methods. Cartels use planes from which they drop the drugs from the plane before they land, or they tow the drugs in an underwater torpedo which they can disconnect in case the boat is stopped for inspection, and the use of tunnels.
And so in order to stop the flow of drugs a wall in and of itself will not suffice to do the job. And so additional means are also necessary to keep them out of the US.
1
Stop permitting the "ILLEGALS" from having jobs, getting welfare, getting education at our expense, and medical care, do not permit sending American Dollars to their home countries.....which they do at a rate of 50 BILLION DOLLLARS A YEAR! $50 BILLIONS: bigger than most of our state budgets!
2
Mexico's wealth and power structure depend on drug money and billions of dollars repatriated by illegal immigrants in addition to the social benefits of being able to outsource care and employment of their own people to American taxpayers.
Why would Mexico want to change the current arrangement when the status quo literally supports their oligarchy? Who will give up money and power for 'cooperation'?
Build the wall anyway. Increase border security through man power and technology and come down hard on internal corruption.
Then we can talk about cooperation.
Why would Mexico want to change the current arrangement when the status quo literally supports their oligarchy? Who will give up money and power for 'cooperation'?
Build the wall anyway. Increase border security through man power and technology and come down hard on internal corruption.
Then we can talk about cooperation.
4
This is a very naïve article. The problem is Mexico is not Canada. Mexico is a country rife with corruption in law enforcement, military, and government. Machismo as well and crime is prevalent as well not just from gangs and cartels. Also, many cross their south border from other corrupt countries to get to the US, not as a refuge, but for their economical advantage.
8
The problem is white supremacy.
Rafael Cruz and Justin Bieber are Canadian pollutants.
Rafael Cruz and Justin Bieber are Canadian pollutants.
1
First, I am far from anti-American, and I've been in the heartland of populist USA and the most cosmopolitan and progressive parts too. Generally, I like Americans that I meet.
But imagine a Canadian Border Services agent arresting a US citizen for violation of a Canadian immigration law - in Houston airport. That's what we have faced for decades. Whose constitution applies when you cross the threshold into the US border services office? Are these offshore US locations, like Guantanamo, US constitution-free zones? The move to implement this at land crossings was just an expansion of an existing affront to our sovereignty.
It all seems fine when the chief executive is not some xenophobic, narcissistic zealot capable of doing almost anything. Suppose Canada decided one day to unilaterally stop the program and expel US agents. Trump would have US troops in Canada in a blink. Or he might, if it distracted people from his latest scandal. How will this all unfold? Who can tell?
I'm happy to have delays on your side of the border rather than American security services on my side. Our sheepish government implemented this with no fanfare and little discussion; after all, playing nice with out largest trading partner to keep the dollars flowing is all that matters. And when it seemed like the voice of reason and checks and balances would continue for another 8 years, what was to worry?
But imagine a Canadian Border Services agent arresting a US citizen for violation of a Canadian immigration law - in Houston airport. That's what we have faced for decades. Whose constitution applies when you cross the threshold into the US border services office? Are these offshore US locations, like Guantanamo, US constitution-free zones? The move to implement this at land crossings was just an expansion of an existing affront to our sovereignty.
It all seems fine when the chief executive is not some xenophobic, narcissistic zealot capable of doing almost anything. Suppose Canada decided one day to unilaterally stop the program and expel US agents. Trump would have US troops in Canada in a blink. Or he might, if it distracted people from his latest scandal. How will this all unfold? Who can tell?
I'm happy to have delays on your side of the border rather than American security services on my side. Our sheepish government implemented this with no fanfare and little discussion; after all, playing nice with out largest trading partner to keep the dollars flowing is all that matters. And when it seemed like the voice of reason and checks and balances would continue for another 8 years, what was to worry?
1
US border agents in Canada are nothing new. When I went home to visit while in college in the 70s, I went through US customs and immigration at Dorval Airport before I left, and the plane landed at LaGuardia as a domestic flight. Most of what could go wrong probably has gone wrong in the past 50 years, and Donald Trump probably would not have so much of an effect on a 50 year old policy.
1
As with everything else, border security will come down to funding. The wall will be too expensive for Republican deficit hawks to swallow and Mexico is NOT paying for no matter what the man-child president elect says. General Kelly and other professionals know we have the technology to monitor our southern border without a wall which requires it to be maintained at great expense. We can have layered security positions, drones, electronic surveillance and a human asset presence which will be effective. Moreover, if we imbed our agents with Mexican agents on their side of the border it will expose any corruption and further strengthen security. This could be done at a much less expense than a wall in which history demonstrates simply doesn't work. We just need the will to do it.
Now Trumpkins, admit it. The wall is a stupid idea. Just say it. It was a campaign slogan that sounded good to simpletons across the country. SAY IT !!!
Now Trumpkins, admit it. The wall is a stupid idea. Just say it. It was a campaign slogan that sounded good to simpletons across the country. SAY IT !!!
This suggestion is better than nothing. I do have reservations about our agents being able to interrogate people who have withdrawn from screening.
But we need to do two more things-
1.) Aggressively prosecute employers who hire illegal immigrants.
2.) End birthright citizenship.
The illegal immigrants in our country need to leave. All of them. This isn't just about fairness and an obligation to follow the law and it apply it equally- it is also a basic question on what our rights and responsibilities as citizens are. We must, each of us, rededicate ourselves to the idea that citizenship means something and that the rights of citizens must be respected and protected.
There are so many areas where citizens are in disagreement- but none of us should ever take the view that the rights of outsiders, here illegally, are as important or more important than the views of our fellow citizens.
But we need to do two more things-
1.) Aggressively prosecute employers who hire illegal immigrants.
2.) End birthright citizenship.
The illegal immigrants in our country need to leave. All of them. This isn't just about fairness and an obligation to follow the law and it apply it equally- it is also a basic question on what our rights and responsibilities as citizens are. We must, each of us, rededicate ourselves to the idea that citizenship means something and that the rights of citizens must be respected and protected.
There are so many areas where citizens are in disagreement- but none of us should ever take the view that the rights of outsiders, here illegally, are as important or more important than the views of our fellow citizens.
6
My first known white European American ancestor was in Lancaster County Virginia Colony in 1640 where he died in 1670.
My earliest known free-person of color ancestors were in South Carolina and Virginia from the American Revolution.
My earliest known enslaved black African ancestors were living in Georgia in 1830/35.
My brown Native American ancestors were in Virginia and South Carolina in 1830/35. Their ancestors came to North America from Asia 13,000 years ago.
This diverse heritage makes me all and only black in America. But I think that my heritage gives me some privileged priority regarding the most desirable new types of American immigrants.
My earliest known free-person of color ancestors were in South Carolina and Virginia from the American Revolution.
My earliest known enslaved black African ancestors were living in Georgia in 1830/35.
My brown Native American ancestors were in Virginia and South Carolina in 1830/35. Their ancestors came to North America from Asia 13,000 years ago.
This diverse heritage makes me all and only black in America. But I think that my heritage gives me some privileged priority regarding the most desirable new types of American immigrants.
1
The Canadian government is transparent. Its government employees are not corrupt. Mexico law enforcement is corrupt. The number of traffic tickets issued by Mexican cops while waiting in line to cross the border in Tiajuana boggles the mind. Look at how many Border Patrol officers have been corrupted by drug dealers. This plan will not work.
Mexico, like Canada, prohibits guns, but Mexico has a lot more gun crime than Canada.
The two countries are not similar.
Mexico, like Canada, prohibits guns, but Mexico has a lot more gun crime than Canada.
The two countries are not similar.
6
If you promise to take Rafael Edward Cruz back then I will agree with you.
1
We are seeing another more effective way of stopping immigration in its tracks. The Ugly America created by the Royalist GOP has tarnished our reputation so much that foreign nationals are not wanting to come to our Universities to learn, our tourist areas to visit because of fear of getting shot or our industries to work because of how we treat our workers. Yes the Ugly Americans who supply weapons of death to more people in the world than any other nations have become our best anti-immigration policy.
1
I am an independent candidate for president. Here is my southern border plan: Every 300 yards we have a well lit Kiosk. Anyone crossing has to register @ the Kiosk. Prominent is a teensy cam clearly marked to stand in front of for photo ID. Cost of card $10 (but a $5 will also work). Card has built in tracker. People coming north to work the harvests must have the photo-ID card.
Peopler crossing w/ card insert card to register at Kiosk. Hidden night vision movie cams built into Kiosk design will record any movement night or day in the area between the Kiosks where a drug runner might cross.
With our technology we will note them and track them, making the drug arrest 100’s of miles away.
A huge wall besides costing billions of dollars disrespects our home home on the range don’t fence me in culture. More drugs will flow and less farm workers. Tunnels galore and simple 40 ft ladders thrown against the south side after a climb up a rope ladder hooked up to climb down on US side.
How many extra border guards required to monitor Trump's wall?
http://michaelslevinson.com
Peopler crossing w/ card insert card to register at Kiosk. Hidden night vision movie cams built into Kiosk design will record any movement night or day in the area between the Kiosks where a drug runner might cross.
With our technology we will note them and track them, making the drug arrest 100’s of miles away.
A huge wall besides costing billions of dollars disrespects our home home on the range don’t fence me in culture. More drugs will flow and less farm workers. Tunnels galore and simple 40 ft ladders thrown against the south side after a climb up a rope ladder hooked up to climb down on US side.
How many extra border guards required to monitor Trump's wall?
http://michaelslevinson.com
1
The flow of drugs rots America. Or does it? What is the condition of the national psyche that requires drugs to function? A lot is written, and demagogued, about murder in Chicago, but that violence is derived from poor men taking any available opportunity to make a buck. And that requires protection of their turf, and that means guns. And guns are conveniently supplied by good Christians in the South and its outposts. Oh, and someone buys the drugs--are they using welfare checks to do that?
We have a whole rotten web of criminality, profiteering, and political blindness to the reality. No wall will fix that. The ingenuity of the border-jumpers is amazing. Tunnels and ramps! And then there's the home supply of meth and of pain killers. Certainly, forget a wall. Look at the growing rot in society instead.
We have a whole rotten web of criminality, profiteering, and political blindness to the reality. No wall will fix that. The ingenuity of the border-jumpers is amazing. Tunnels and ramps! And then there's the home supply of meth and of pain killers. Certainly, forget a wall. Look at the growing rot in society instead.
3
Americans want comprehensive immigration control.
Americans do not want massive immigration such as that which America has experienced during the past 40 years.
Comprehensive immigration control includes both strong border control and strong internal controls, at the workplace and elsewhere.
Strong border control might or might not be achievable without a border wall.
But all means need to be seriously considered, including a wall, and not deflected with inaccurate assertions by those who have other motivations, such as those in the business community who are always looking for cheap labor and those in the multi-cultural camp who keep pushing for more immigration in the name of "diversity".
Most Americans are willing to have the country undertake strong border security despite the costs, whether an actual wall or other measures that actually make the border secure.
John Kelly said nothing in the Senate hearings to contradict the need for a strong border barrier.
He emphasized a multi-layered approach, following the law and not picking and choosing which laws to enforce. He acknowledged that nothing will be perfect, and that priorities need to be set. He deftly avoided being boxed in by Senators such as Democrat Kamela Harris and Claire McCaskill who were obviously pursuing a pro-immigration agenda with their cross-examination-stlye questioning about matters dear to them, such as DACA.
Americans do not want massive immigration such as that which America has experienced during the past 40 years.
Comprehensive immigration control includes both strong border control and strong internal controls, at the workplace and elsewhere.
Strong border control might or might not be achievable without a border wall.
But all means need to be seriously considered, including a wall, and not deflected with inaccurate assertions by those who have other motivations, such as those in the business community who are always looking for cheap labor and those in the multi-cultural camp who keep pushing for more immigration in the name of "diversity".
Most Americans are willing to have the country undertake strong border security despite the costs, whether an actual wall or other measures that actually make the border secure.
John Kelly said nothing in the Senate hearings to contradict the need for a strong border barrier.
He emphasized a multi-layered approach, following the law and not picking and choosing which laws to enforce. He acknowledged that nothing will be perfect, and that priorities need to be set. He deftly avoided being boxed in by Senators such as Democrat Kamela Harris and Claire McCaskill who were obviously pursuing a pro-immigration agenda with their cross-examination-stlye questioning about matters dear to them, such as DACA.
5
I spent thirty years in Federal law enforcement assigned to cities on the U.S. Mexican border and later in Mexico City and Monterrey. Clearly, the author doesn't understand the difference between working with Canadians and Mexicans.
Pre-screening of travelers may work well in Canada, but it is ludicrous to suggest it would work in Mexico where the vast majority of illegals enter in remote areas. Coupled with that is the issue of overwhelming corruption throughout the Mexican Federal, state and local governments which, unfortunately, is "the way they do business". Those disbelievers need only look at the escape of Joaquin Chao-Guzman, the leader of the Sinaloa drug cartel who tunneled his way out of Mexico's "most secure" prison. For that to take place, the bribes went all the way to the top in Mexico City.
I live in Texas where we are drowning in illegal aliens and my colleagues have dealt with human trafficking, weapons trafficking, and more recently with intelligence concerning Middle Eastern ISIS members transiting Mexico. The press has falsely characterized this as an anti-Hispanic racial issue. Nothing could be further from the truth. We cannot change the culture of Mexico and we never will, but we do have the right to protect our border from a country that is a major threat to our national security.
Pre-screening of travelers may work well in Canada, but it is ludicrous to suggest it would work in Mexico where the vast majority of illegals enter in remote areas. Coupled with that is the issue of overwhelming corruption throughout the Mexican Federal, state and local governments which, unfortunately, is "the way they do business". Those disbelievers need only look at the escape of Joaquin Chao-Guzman, the leader of the Sinaloa drug cartel who tunneled his way out of Mexico's "most secure" prison. For that to take place, the bribes went all the way to the top in Mexico City.
I live in Texas where we are drowning in illegal aliens and my colleagues have dealt with human trafficking, weapons trafficking, and more recently with intelligence concerning Middle Eastern ISIS members transiting Mexico. The press has falsely characterized this as an anti-Hispanic racial issue. Nothing could be further from the truth. We cannot change the culture of Mexico and we never will, but we do have the right to protect our border from a country that is a major threat to our national security.
7
Just because he said the problem is not illegal immigration does not mean that many Trump supporters, or Trump himself, agree. The pre-screen does nearly nothing to control illegal immigration, most of which results from illegal border crossing or visa overstays. That someone whose previous life was as a military commander would see this as less of a problem than terrorist infiltration is both natural and irrelevant to the discussion of illegal immigration.
3
We need a mandatory national identity card. I would suggest something modeled on the State Department issued Passport Card. These are currently issued at minimal cost and employ any number of technologies to make forgery easy to detect. Giving every American citizen a high quality ID card and every legal resident a similar- but different- card would make the jobs of law enforcement, border control and customs officers much easier & should not be any more expensive than some stupid wall. It also could be used to verify citizenship for voter registration.
I served in Germany during the Cold War era where not only Berlin, but all of eastern Germany was cut off from the Federal Republic of Germany. It was the most heavily armed and brutally enforced border known to exist other than the Korean DMZ and it did not work. The DDR spent money it could ill afford on that wall and yet people did everything up to and including building a hot air balloon to make their way to the west.
Republicans like to cast themselves as realists who champion the free market and economic incentives. Most migrants to our nation are economic migrants- people simply seeking a better life for their families. As long as the lure of economic opportunity exists here they will come. To deny that is to deny reality & economic incentives.
We should embrace orderly immigration but not waste the Customs and Border Patrol's time playing cat and mouse with people simply seeking better lives. A Card could help.
I served in Germany during the Cold War era where not only Berlin, but all of eastern Germany was cut off from the Federal Republic of Germany. It was the most heavily armed and brutally enforced border known to exist other than the Korean DMZ and it did not work. The DDR spent money it could ill afford on that wall and yet people did everything up to and including building a hot air balloon to make their way to the west.
Republicans like to cast themselves as realists who champion the free market and economic incentives. Most migrants to our nation are economic migrants- people simply seeking a better life for their families. As long as the lure of economic opportunity exists here they will come. To deny that is to deny reality & economic incentives.
We should embrace orderly immigration but not waste the Customs and Border Patrol's time playing cat and mouse with people simply seeking better lives. A Card could help.
3
Amnesty and open borders have become dirty words in our country. Everyone argues about how to secure the borders and deport undocumented immigrants but very few people are willing to question the underlying assumption of its necessity.
Immigration, even undocumented immigration (unfortunately this is counterintuitive for many people), benefits our economy and society in so many different ways. These knee-jerk depictions of immigrants as parasites are grotesque misrepresentations designed to evoke an emotional reaction.
I don't like xenophobia and I don't like the Trump agenda. Immigration used to be an issue I didn't really think was a high priority. But seeing as how Trump built huge national support almost solely on that issue, it's time to pay attention.
Immigration, even undocumented immigration (unfortunately this is counterintuitive for many people), benefits our economy and society in so many different ways. These knee-jerk depictions of immigrants as parasites are grotesque misrepresentations designed to evoke an emotional reaction.
I don't like xenophobia and I don't like the Trump agenda. Immigration used to be an issue I didn't really think was a high priority. But seeing as how Trump built huge national support almost solely on that issue, it's time to pay attention.
1
"[T]he real problem is not illegal immigration, but the flow of drugs, gangs and possibly terrorists across the border." Bravo! And there is a very easy way to end the flow of drugs and gangs across the border: end this failed and counter productive "war on drugs". Treat drug addiction as the medical problem it actually is.
A more appropriate approach to the drug problem would have added benefits: the black market for drugs would dry up, not just here, but in Mexico and Central America.
A more appropriate approach to the drug problem would have added benefits: the black market for drugs would dry up, not just here, but in Mexico and Central America.
3
I'll go with this article's stated argument that it is to stop the flow of drugs and possibly terrorists that is the greatest concern. At first I didn't understand the statement that stopping illegal immigrants at the border is not the concern, but then I realized that the best ways to curtail illegal immigration consist of actions that can be taken after the border has been crossed.
I will mention two points at the southern border which left me wondering:
1. At the Boquillas del Carmen overlook in Big Bend National Park (Texas), we saw pickup trucks carrying plastic laundry baskets across the river ford, with a Mexican village visible just over there. When we mentioned this to a park ranger, we were told sympathetically that this was simply the residents moving their groceries across.
2. In the Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument (Arizona), there was a simple barbed wire fence with nothing more than two or three strands of wire adjacent to a Mexican highway not ten feet from the border fence with an occasional vehicle moving along it. We turned around on the gravel road through park attractions. Anyone could have thrown drugs or whatever across that fence.
I will mention two points at the southern border which left me wondering:
1. At the Boquillas del Carmen overlook in Big Bend National Park (Texas), we saw pickup trucks carrying plastic laundry baskets across the river ford, with a Mexican village visible just over there. When we mentioned this to a park ranger, we were told sympathetically that this was simply the residents moving their groceries across.
2. In the Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument (Arizona), there was a simple barbed wire fence with nothing more than two or three strands of wire adjacent to a Mexican highway not ten feet from the border fence with an occasional vehicle moving along it. We turned around on the gravel road through park attractions. Anyone could have thrown drugs or whatever across that fence.
2
Although I have re-iterated this at least a hundred time in the print media, I will say it again: Cut Off The Reasons the Illegals Come to the U.S. It is much cheaper and way more efficient. The way the "Legal" immigrants, whom we want, have been coming to the U.S., works pretty well for over a hundred ears: we admit a milion "legals" every year, more than any other country. It needs "streamlining" but it DOES work.My ancestors, and probably yours came here according the the laws and rules. Why do the politicians and the public make the task so difficult? I know, I know: the money, gobs and gobs of it is involved there somewhere.
3
There is a very basic flaw in the idea of allowing American agents to inspect Mexican vehicles while they are still in Mexico. And that is that the US has no jurisdiction in Mexico and therefore do not have the authority to make an arrest, or to even confiscate any drugs that they may find.
Nobody would love to see this type of arrangement more than those who are engaged in smuggling drugs. The basic game of smuggling drugs past US customs is to conceal the drugs so that the customs agents won't find it. However if they do the smugglers are placed under arrest and face long prison sentences.
However if the inspections are done on Mexican territory smuggling drugs into the US will be a zero risk proposition. The worst that can happen is the agents find the drugs and they are not allowed entry. At this point they turn around, conceal the drugs in a different vehicle and return the next day. And since a great percent of the time agents do not find drugs concealed in vehicles, sooner of later they will be granted entery. As a result the rate of drugs that are discovered and confiscated at the border will drop to a flat zero.
In addition currently attempting to smuggle drugs carries the huge risk of getting caught and going to prison. However with inspections taking place on the Mexican side, smuggling is a no risk proposition. This in turn will entice many more to attempt to smuggle since there is nothing to lose by getting caught.
Nobody would love to see this type of arrangement more than those who are engaged in smuggling drugs. The basic game of smuggling drugs past US customs is to conceal the drugs so that the customs agents won't find it. However if they do the smugglers are placed under arrest and face long prison sentences.
However if the inspections are done on Mexican territory smuggling drugs into the US will be a zero risk proposition. The worst that can happen is the agents find the drugs and they are not allowed entry. At this point they turn around, conceal the drugs in a different vehicle and return the next day. And since a great percent of the time agents do not find drugs concealed in vehicles, sooner of later they will be granted entery. As a result the rate of drugs that are discovered and confiscated at the border will drop to a flat zero.
In addition currently attempting to smuggle drugs carries the huge risk of getting caught and going to prison. However with inspections taking place on the Mexican side, smuggling is a no risk proposition. This in turn will entice many more to attempt to smuggle since there is nothing to lose by getting caught.
2
"A wall isn't necessary to stop illegal immigration": on that I will agree. However the very best way, and unfortunately anathema to vested business interests, is to enact laws against the hiring of illegals with severe penalties against those who do thus targeting those who hire and subsequently exploit illegal immigration. For example: let's say Tyson foods is found to have 19 (feel free to multiply here) illegal undocumented workers, the personnel who hired them would have to serve 60 days in prison, mandatory!, the factory manager as well, plus the companies board of directors would serve 10 day sentences and the company itself fined x number of $. These penalties and draconian enforcement of them would apply to all levels and types of employment. And Illegal immigration would fall dramatically. The government would be required to provide the resources to businesses of all sizes to ensure they are in compliance. The illegal drug trade and other types of crime are different matters altogether. A wall doesn't serve as much of a barrier. The moral to this approach is that if business really feels it has to recruit labor from other countries then they can make an argument to whatever agency handles the matter and get a permit. It isn't a new approach. Here people from the Caribbean were brought in to pick apples and regulations were in effect that made sure they were fairly treated.
4
I once had a client with operations in Canada that required that I travel there for a bit. Frequently when I alighted from a jet there, THEIR people took me out of the passport/customs lines, sat me down in a small room as if I were Jason Bourne and grilled me for half an hour on my potentially nefarious intentions of stealing a Canadian’s livelihood by performing work in Canada that COULD have been performed by a Canadian. My claims of immensely superior intelligence and better looks were not appreciated. Fortunately, they didn’t kick me out of the country.
But the point is that if WE were as careful as the Canadians and had to deal with THEIR challenges and not ours, I might buy the author’s conclusions. As it is …
Our shared border with Canada separates two equivalently prosperous societies whose values are hardly dissimilar and even who look alike. The biggest substantive differences between us are in this curious affinity for use of the word “eh?” and the telltale pronunciation of “ou” as “oo”. These aren’t culturally challenging idiosyncrasies.
You don’t see vast economic osmosis occurring to our north: you DO see it to our south. The conviction that by mere better cooperation between law enforcement agencies you can stem a tide of the desperate coming over our southern border by ANY MEANS OBTAINABLE is simply irrational. If Kelly really believes this nonsense, I’m QUITE sure that Trump will set him straight soon enough.
But the point is that if WE were as careful as the Canadians and had to deal with THEIR challenges and not ours, I might buy the author’s conclusions. As it is …
Our shared border with Canada separates two equivalently prosperous societies whose values are hardly dissimilar and even who look alike. The biggest substantive differences between us are in this curious affinity for use of the word “eh?” and the telltale pronunciation of “ou” as “oo”. These aren’t culturally challenging idiosyncrasies.
You don’t see vast economic osmosis occurring to our north: you DO see it to our south. The conviction that by mere better cooperation between law enforcement agencies you can stem a tide of the desperate coming over our southern border by ANY MEANS OBTAINABLE is simply irrational. If Kelly really believes this nonsense, I’m QUITE sure that Trump will set him straight soon enough.
23
In the aftermath of 9/11/01, I was routinely regularly and "randomly" selected by TSA to for the full CSI 24 grilling. My wife was furious. I was resigned.
I tired of their trifling stupidity. On a January business trip to Edmonton, Alberta, I was pulled from the line. And agreed to let them inspect my bags where they found my copy of the Bible and a Koran and Karen Armstrong histories of the Prophet and Islam.
I was ushered into the TSA office and surrounded by a bunch of questioning fools. But I was released just in time to make my flight.
When I arrived in Canada the authorities were waiting for me. Once again I got the Canadian version of profiling in their office. I was very sleepy and angry at the idiotic bigotry of the sons and daughters of England.
I tired of their trifling stupidity. On a January business trip to Edmonton, Alberta, I was pulled from the line. And agreed to let them inspect my bags where they found my copy of the Bible and a Koran and Karen Armstrong histories of the Prophet and Islam.
I was ushered into the TSA office and surrounded by a bunch of questioning fools. But I was released just in time to make my flight.
When I arrived in Canada the authorities were waiting for me. Once again I got the Canadian version of profiling in their office. I was very sleepy and angry at the idiotic bigotry of the sons and daughters of England.
3
Building a wall, while perhaps advisable (it has worked as intended where built already), was never going to really do it all. For one thing, if the question is immigration, roughly half of those now staying here in contravention of law do so on expired visas. So a visa tracking systems is necessary as well.
From a national security viewpoint, I'm not so sure that this pre-screening will do much. Seems to me that would be first and foremost an intelligence matter. And that armed American agents are on-site in those countries doesn't mean they would be able to take independent investigative actions there, so what are we really gaining? And just as much to the point, what do Canada and Mexico get out of it? I doubt reciprocal posting of their agents on our soil would thrill them much.
From a national security viewpoint, I'm not so sure that this pre-screening will do much. Seems to me that would be first and foremost an intelligence matter. And that armed American agents are on-site in those countries doesn't mean they would be able to take independent investigative actions there, so what are we really gaining? And just as much to the point, what do Canada and Mexico get out of it? I doubt reciprocal posting of their agents on our soil would thrill them much.
3
Israel has found that building border barriers to keep out economic migrants (or, as the Israeli government calls them: illegal infiltrators) is effective and efficient.
Why doesn't American deserve to get what Israel already has?
Why doesn't American deserve to get what Israel already has?
20
First, define "effective and efficient" because the mess in which Israelis and Palestinians currently live can hardly be described as effective and efficient.
Second, Israel does not share a 2,000 mile border with Palestine. That makes it easier and cheaper (but not effective) to build walls.
Third, Palestine has a population of 4.5 million inhabitants, while Mexico has 122 million. So it's a question of controlling volume. Many have said that trying to wall the US-Mexico border is like trying to wall the sea. The wall will be overcome one way or another. For instance, both the US and Israel have constant problems with tunnels.
What the US deserves is a well thought-out solution to a very complex issue, and not empty and costly promises that get votes but do nothing to improve the issues.
Second, Israel does not share a 2,000 mile border with Palestine. That makes it easier and cheaper (but not effective) to build walls.
Third, Palestine has a population of 4.5 million inhabitants, while Mexico has 122 million. So it's a question of controlling volume. Many have said that trying to wall the US-Mexico border is like trying to wall the sea. The wall will be overcome one way or another. For instance, both the US and Israel have constant problems with tunnels.
What the US deserves is a well thought-out solution to a very complex issue, and not empty and costly promises that get votes but do nothing to improve the issues.
1
a) Isreal is not surrounded by a wall.
b) America's border is for longer.
c) Nothing works about comparing Israel and America works in terms of borders.
d) Might I add that spending billions on a wall will blow up the deficit which is a leading concern of conservatives.
b) America's border is for longer.
c) Nothing works about comparing Israel and America works in terms of borders.
d) Might I add that spending billions on a wall will blow up the deficit which is a leading concern of conservatives.
1
"...walling off the entire southern boundary at great cost sends a hostile message that could snuff out the very cooperation needed to make our borders truly secure."
At what part of the hearing did the General make this statement? I do believe that this is no more than wishful thinking on the part of the author. The General implied that we can not just build a wall and expect that will, on its own, keep the unwanted out. Everyone, including us uneducated deplorables that expect Trump to build this wall, heard Trump also mention adding more Border Patrol Officers to enforce the law along the border/wall.
At what part of the hearing did the General make this statement? I do believe that this is no more than wishful thinking on the part of the author. The General implied that we can not just build a wall and expect that will, on its own, keep the unwanted out. Everyone, including us uneducated deplorables that expect Trump to build this wall, heard Trump also mention adding more Border Patrol Officers to enforce the law along the border/wall.
5
in their quest to defend anything Donald, the commenters here miss the point of the article. Be smart about border security through cooperation and intelligence. A physical wall may be a good campaign image, but it is a 15th century solution to a 21st century problem.
49
This article artfully ignores the reason why 90+% of illegals enter the United States.
The best way to secure the border is to turn off the jobs magnet. But that will require holding Americans who employ illegals accountable. All signs are that nobody (including Trump) has the desire to do that.
The best way to secure the border is to turn off the jobs magnet. But that will require holding Americans who employ illegals accountable. All signs are that nobody (including Trump) has the desire to do that.
105
Congress should pass a nationwide E-VERIFY and there should be high fines and prison sentences on those who hire illegals. The illegals captured during Interior Enforcement should be deported immediately - no law hearing to let them drag out the process - A Rocket Docket is needed and we need to reduce the amount of time they can appeal their sentence.
1
With a wall it cannot get any worse than it is today without a wall; get real.
13
Something there is that does not love a wall.
Building a wall sends a message, as any neighbor knows. The bigger the wall, the stronger the message that we regard Mexico as an enemy and a threat.
And the more stupid we look, never mind hypocritical. Stupid because net immigration has been zero from Mexico since 2008. Hypocritical because we don't enforce our own laws about hiring illegal immigrants, as businesses freely admit when they say they depend on immigrant labor.
Since new illegal immigration is a nonproblem, and yet The Wall is seen as necessary, I suspect many people concerned about "illegal" immigration actually oppose legal immigration. Maybe not on principle, but of a certain amount from certain places. Too many people from place X in place Y. Somalies in St Cloud, Mexicans in Prince George county, whatever.
The America of Donald Trump's youth was distinctly white. Fifty years of browning since the changes in immigration law in1968 has left some people uncomfortable. No politician proposes "whitening" that law. So they blame Mexico. And here we are.
Building a wall sends a message, as any neighbor knows. The bigger the wall, the stronger the message that we regard Mexico as an enemy and a threat.
And the more stupid we look, never mind hypocritical. Stupid because net immigration has been zero from Mexico since 2008. Hypocritical because we don't enforce our own laws about hiring illegal immigrants, as businesses freely admit when they say they depend on immigrant labor.
Since new illegal immigration is a nonproblem, and yet The Wall is seen as necessary, I suspect many people concerned about "illegal" immigration actually oppose legal immigration. Maybe not on principle, but of a certain amount from certain places. Too many people from place X in place Y. Somalies in St Cloud, Mexicans in Prince George county, whatever.
The America of Donald Trump's youth was distinctly white. Fifty years of browning since the changes in immigration law in1968 has left some people uncomfortable. No politician proposes "whitening" that law. So they blame Mexico. And here we are.
1
Perhaps so, but why should we spend $40 billion on something that (most likely) won't change the equation in any material way? The American taxpayer is never going to be reimbursed for this expenditure.
1
Get real. There may be a cheaper way to do it without the cost building a wall.
1
Another factor that has a huge effect on immigration is the Mexican economy. The better their economy is, the fewer people leave home. So anything we can do to help their ecomy will cut immigration.
28
Peter, true. NAFTA, for all its current condemnation, significantly improved the Mexican economy, which is one of the reasons there are a million fewer undocumented workers here now then there were 10 years ago.
2
Definitively. And threatening industries with plants or plans of plants in Mexico is not helping at all.
1
This article misses the point. No one fears Canadians coming across America's borders. In fact, it might be Canadians fearing Americans fleeing Trump's America.
We should acknowledge that racism is on the rise again. Sure, there are criminals coming across the border but that comes with Americans paying anything to have their drugs. What white America fears is a brown America. That is the cause for hysteria about the border.
We know we need to protect ourselves against real threats that might come across from Mexico.
But, putting customs agents in Mexico will not diminish the immigrant bashing we see.
If you want to diminish the hysteria then fine the preponderate numbers of white Americans who own and operate fast food franchises, construction companies who hire illegals, big-agri who hire the laborers to pick their crops, lawn mowing companies who hire undocumented workers. These industries would not survive unless there was a complicit arrangement between white America and Mexico.
Of course, if you fine or penalize companies who hire undocumented immigrants you then lose these segments of the economy. House prices go up. You'll mow your own lawn. You'll pay more to roof your house. You'll see less service industries of all types. Is that bad or good?
But where the border is concerned, nativism is the issue.
We should acknowledge that racism is on the rise again. Sure, there are criminals coming across the border but that comes with Americans paying anything to have their drugs. What white America fears is a brown America. That is the cause for hysteria about the border.
We know we need to protect ourselves against real threats that might come across from Mexico.
But, putting customs agents in Mexico will not diminish the immigrant bashing we see.
If you want to diminish the hysteria then fine the preponderate numbers of white Americans who own and operate fast food franchises, construction companies who hire illegals, big-agri who hire the laborers to pick their crops, lawn mowing companies who hire undocumented workers. These industries would not survive unless there was a complicit arrangement between white America and Mexico.
Of course, if you fine or penalize companies who hire undocumented immigrants you then lose these segments of the economy. House prices go up. You'll mow your own lawn. You'll pay more to roof your house. You'll see less service industries of all types. Is that bad or good?
But where the border is concerned, nativism is the issue.
19
There are no Hispanic people, legal or illegal, in my part of VT. It is next to impossible to find anyone to help with basic household maintenance needs for a reasonable or even extortional price.
Were the members of Congress who passed the laws which reformed immigration in the 1980's a gang of racists? The standard response to the reasonable expectation that people obey the laws regulating entry into this country is to ascribe some sort of racial animus to the viewpoint. I would like to see immigration laws obeyed for the same reason I'd like to see traffic laws obeyed-they are how we collectively have decided to regulate society. Those who casually ascribe racism to proponents of obeying the law never get around to saying what they are in favor of. Open borders? And if not open borders then how much undocumented immigration should we have? Once you put a number on it, any number, aren't you then by your own definition a participant in excluding people of other races?
3
This also won't stem the flow of opioids from China
I have frequently travelled between Washington DC and Ottawa and so been subjected to the pre-screening conducted by American customs agents stationed there. Perhaps worries about those who wish to withdraw from the screening process wouldn't be so acute if the questioning were conducted in a more respectful way. I have often had to squelch my indignation with their manner, especially at the contrast with the always helpful Canadian staff in the earlier stages of the process. Now, I suppose, any complaint would be followed up with more intensive "grilling." Welcome home, indeed.
51
Sad to say, you are correct. My own experience at the N Dakota / Montana/ Canada border showed CDN officials to be courteous and professional, whilst US counterparts were more often than not gruff and officious , with some few exceptions.
3
Um...so if this model for cooperation works in deterring Canadian illegal immigrants and drug gangs from crossing illegally into the US, it will work on our southern border? Because what works in the north must work in the south?
I have only one question:
Are you insane?
I have only one question:
Are you insane?
25
Your proposal makes eminent sense and if any other president than Donald Trump were elected, it would have a good chance of being implemented.
But Donald Trump promised a followers and a wall it will be. More than likely paid for by taxpayers ad infinitum.
Donald Trump works in symbols, stagecraft, and simplistic ideas. Those folders at the press conference – unbelievable.
Even if it costs a gazillion dollars, is paid for by US taxpayers, is totally ineffective, and does more harm than good to our relations with Mexico, by golly that wall will be built.
Remember, when Trump wants something he tries to get it by whatever means he can. This was his first campaign promise, and I very much doubt that he will retract on it.
But Donald Trump promised a followers and a wall it will be. More than likely paid for by taxpayers ad infinitum.
Donald Trump works in symbols, stagecraft, and simplistic ideas. Those folders at the press conference – unbelievable.
Even if it costs a gazillion dollars, is paid for by US taxpayers, is totally ineffective, and does more harm than good to our relations with Mexico, by golly that wall will be built.
Remember, when Trump wants something he tries to get it by whatever means he can. This was his first campaign promise, and I very much doubt that he will retract on it.
10
"Your proposal makes eminent sense and if any other president than Donald Trump were elected, it would have a good chance of being implemented."
Not really. The solution lies in the Congress, not the president. Obama could not do it. And Congress has been blocking all type of solutions for a very long time (since after Regan times to be precise).
Not really. The solution lies in the Congress, not the president. Obama could not do it. And Congress has been blocking all type of solutions for a very long time (since after Regan times to be precise).
2
Funding for the wall will be approved but it won't rise between Mexico and the US, somehow it will appear as a seawall at a certain golf course in Scotland. Ironically, it will likely be built by Mexicans.
1
Yeah, maybe, but let's build the wall anyway......can't hurt.
13
Excellent. And you did it in one brief sentence!
4
Can't hurt? Certainly The Wall symbolizes something to Americans. Should we suppose it symbolizes nothing to Mexicans? If a symbol, is it positive? If the wall is actually useless, how can it be anything but destructive?
2
Sure. It's only money.
1
Thanks for stating the obvious, which has eluded half this nation for the past 2 years. A border with a friendly nation is infinitely safer than a border with an unfriendly nation. Trump wants a hostile, North and South Korea type border with Mexico. It is unnecessary, completely wrong headed, stupid, ridiculously expensive, incredibly dangerous, and rooted in needless hysteria and rank bigotry.
Hostile borders are the most horrible strips of territory in the world. Seeking one with a ally is the maddest act of diplomacy imaginable.
Hostile borders are the most horrible strips of territory in the world. Seeking one with a ally is the maddest act of diplomacy imaginable.
194
And speaking of strips: the one that that wall would be built on would be private land until it's expropriated for that purpose. And a few hundred miles of that abuts a river on top of that.
Hello?
Hello?
A friendly nation does not send it's underclass here and demand we pay for them. Mexico's leaders are not allies with the American middle class.
6
Border walls make for better neighbors.
4
I am very glad to see some positive ideas from incoming administration leaders. I am equally happy to see editorial support for those ideas. It's easy to say no based on the party of the person presenting an idea. Harder to listen without prejudgement.
2
We’re not being honest with ourselves to think armed agents and cooperation between the two countries is going to solve this. And it’s delusional to think a “wall” will keep the border secure.
Ask the question. Why do these people take their lives in their hands to come here in the first place? I think we all know the answer. Abject poverty and no future for themselves or their children and grandchildren.
So until that problem is solved they will keep coming
Ask the question. Why do these people take their lives in their hands to come here in the first place? I think we all know the answer. Abject poverty and no future for themselves or their children and grandchildren.
So until that problem is solved they will keep coming
60
I clicked on Recommended 100 times for your post.
Just thought you'd like to know.
Just thought you'd like to know.
4
Give the Republicans a few more years. The traffic will be going in the opposite direction, for the same reason.
One way to stop immigration is to make the US so horrible that no sane person would come here. They're on their way.
One way to stop immigration is to make the US so horrible that no sane person would come here. They're on their way.
1
If Mexican citizens face abject poverty, why is our problem to solve? Where is your fury with their leaders for doing so little to aid their own people?
6
Looks a little like: The N.R.A. Goes to Canada abetted by a strong dose of paranoia.
14
Were the Mexicn authorities as professional, trustworthy and capable as our Canadian allies, that would be one thing. But they're not. They are corrupt, their cops are dirty and their politicians are cowards. Sure, if they wish to cooperate, we'll sign up - but as insurance build a wall worthy of the Soviets and keep it manned 24/7 without fail, and using every technological and canine asset necessary to ensure NO leakage. It's a cruel world and the lazy and stupid get swallowed even before the meek.
40
Marita, in the event your comment isn't meant ironically: the article is about stationing US border officers in the other country (he's writing about Canada but ultimately the same system could be implemented with Mexico) so we're doing the screening ourselves, before anybody even gets to the border.
But the whole article ignores the fact that nearly all illegal residents come legally, as visitors, students, workers, and overstay their permission to be here.
Mr. Kelly - and General Kelly - are implicitly talking about protecting ourselves from "bad guys".
As though any border officer of any country could see, say via a crystal ball, who's going to be the bad guys.
But the whole article ignores the fact that nearly all illegal residents come legally, as visitors, students, workers, and overstay their permission to be here.
Mr. Kelly - and General Kelly - are implicitly talking about protecting ourselves from "bad guys".
As though any border officer of any country could see, say via a crystal ball, who's going to be the bad guys.
9
Hai,
You may have a large population of Canadian and European illegals in Ohio, I can't say as I don't live there. Most of us who do live near the border with Mexico know the following. A majority of the crossings between the U.S. and Mexico are by vehicle or on foot and occur at the physical border. A majority of those crossing have been prescreened and are not a large source of illegals. All of this traffic is screened again by U.S. Customs agents several times in a layered defense miles deep. This part of the system works reasonably well
The issue with illegal crossings is different, most come by foot between the legal crossing points. No amount of prescreening will change that fact. Very few potential migrants present themselves at legal crossings and request asylum. Rather they cross illegally first and then employ the refugee defense only when they are caught, if they are caught at all.
The short term solution is to return all the people who cross illegally on foot back to Mexico immediately and process refugee requests in Mexico. Paying Mexico to house them is more cost effective than housing them in the U.S. or doing "catch and release".
The real solution is knowing who is in our country, why they are here and if they have the right to work here. The real solution is enforcing our laws against those in the U.S. who don't follow them regardless the reason however noble it might be.
If you don't like the law work to change the law, but follow it until it changes.
You may have a large population of Canadian and European illegals in Ohio, I can't say as I don't live there. Most of us who do live near the border with Mexico know the following. A majority of the crossings between the U.S. and Mexico are by vehicle or on foot and occur at the physical border. A majority of those crossing have been prescreened and are not a large source of illegals. All of this traffic is screened again by U.S. Customs agents several times in a layered defense miles deep. This part of the system works reasonably well
The issue with illegal crossings is different, most come by foot between the legal crossing points. No amount of prescreening will change that fact. Very few potential migrants present themselves at legal crossings and request asylum. Rather they cross illegally first and then employ the refugee defense only when they are caught, if they are caught at all.
The short term solution is to return all the people who cross illegally on foot back to Mexico immediately and process refugee requests in Mexico. Paying Mexico to house them is more cost effective than housing them in the U.S. or doing "catch and release".
The real solution is knowing who is in our country, why they are here and if they have the right to work here. The real solution is enforcing our laws against those in the U.S. who don't follow them regardless the reason however noble it might be.
If you don't like the law work to change the law, but follow it until it changes.
4
And the answer from Mexico was:
"Were the US authorities as professional, trustworthy and capable as our Canadian allies, that would be one thing. But they're not. They are corrupt, their cops are dirty, and their politicians are cowards. Sure, if they wish to cooperate, we'll sign up, but..."
Aren't they right, dear Marita?
"Were the US authorities as professional, trustworthy and capable as our Canadian allies, that would be one thing. But they're not. They are corrupt, their cops are dirty, and their politicians are cowards. Sure, if they wish to cooperate, we'll sign up, but..."
Aren't they right, dear Marita?
1
A funny, real American, idea. But let me ask: who will mow the lawn, repair the plumbing and shovel sand and all at reasonable prices?
21
Peter, indeed. Whereby: for Americans, "reasonable price" normally means "real cheap". Not only do we want them here, we want them to work for nothing. And: the fact that they're willing to proves that we're doing them a favor by not enforcing our immigration law. Nor a living minimum wage.
10
Our own former middle class.
3
Peter from Germany wrote:
"A funny, real American, idea. But let me ask: who will mow the lawn, repair the plumbing and shovel sand and all at reasonable prices?"
Don't you the NYTimes? Those jobs aren't coming back. Automation is eliminating the need for illegal aliens.
Besides, only the one percent have lawns.
"A funny, real American, idea. But let me ask: who will mow the lawn, repair the plumbing and shovel sand and all at reasonable prices?"
Don't you the NYTimes? Those jobs aren't coming back. Automation is eliminating the need for illegal aliens.
Besides, only the one percent have lawns.
2
I'm a citizen of both the US and Canada and have crossed that border hundreds of times while living and working in both countries over the last 35 years.
It's not the borders or anything about them - physical barriers, screening by US border officers, "pistol-packing" or not, on either side of the line, on a boat, in an airport, ferry terminal, wherever - that has the potential for fixing the US immigration mess.
We Americans have an unspoken but quite concrete cultural belief that everybody deserves a crack at the American Dream. That, combined with an aversion towards effective government administration of clearly defined immigration rules, enables us to wink and accept the presence of millions of our neighbors whose residence status is illegal or murky. Essentially, we are ambivalent about the very rule of law in this realm.
No amount of talk about bad guys, walls, and guns will change the fact that our immigration policy consists of Byzantine law that isn't enforced within our borders.
It's not the borders or anything about them - physical barriers, screening by US border officers, "pistol-packing" or not, on either side of the line, on a boat, in an airport, ferry terminal, wherever - that has the potential for fixing the US immigration mess.
We Americans have an unspoken but quite concrete cultural belief that everybody deserves a crack at the American Dream. That, combined with an aversion towards effective government administration of clearly defined immigration rules, enables us to wink and accept the presence of millions of our neighbors whose residence status is illegal or murky. Essentially, we are ambivalent about the very rule of law in this realm.
No amount of talk about bad guys, walls, and guns will change the fact that our immigration policy consists of Byzantine law that isn't enforced within our borders.
36
American employers have a dewy eyed notion of the American Dream. It is workers who have no rights and will work for a pittance. Illegal immigrants fit the bill. It's not about idealism and it's not about giving foreigners a crack at the American Dream.
So we have a law we don't enforce.
So we have a law we don't enforce.
31
Canada has stronger immigration laws than the USA.
Canada also has the luxury of a 1500-mile buffer between it and Mexico.
Illegal immigrants into the USA from Canada number less than 100,000.
Illegal immigrants into the USA from Mexico and elsewhere in Latin American number more than seven million.
On top of illegal immigration, Mexicans and other Latin Americans also get, every year, more than 300,000 "green cards" (the right to legal permanent residence in the USA.
Total immigration between the USA and Canada is far less than total immigration between the USA and Canada. But to the extent that immigration between the USA and Canada does exist, it is net into the USA by about around 20,000 annually.
The claim of net immigration from the USA into Mexico is wrong:
it is based on only one recent year (2015), and even then it compares apples and oranges,both as to source of the data and also as to the data measured:
The numbers into the USA from Mexico are Mexican-born persons are tabulated by the U.S. Government.
The numbers into Mexico from the USA are tabulated by the Mexican government and include not only Mexican-born persons returning to Mexico but also persons born anywhere outside Mexico -- including the U.S.-born children of Mexicans going to Mexico with their Mexican-born parents and siblings.
Canada also has the luxury of a 1500-mile buffer between it and Mexico.
Illegal immigrants into the USA from Canada number less than 100,000.
Illegal immigrants into the USA from Mexico and elsewhere in Latin American number more than seven million.
On top of illegal immigration, Mexicans and other Latin Americans also get, every year, more than 300,000 "green cards" (the right to legal permanent residence in the USA.
Total immigration between the USA and Canada is far less than total immigration between the USA and Canada. But to the extent that immigration between the USA and Canada does exist, it is net into the USA by about around 20,000 annually.
The claim of net immigration from the USA into Mexico is wrong:
it is based on only one recent year (2015), and even then it compares apples and oranges,both as to source of the data and also as to the data measured:
The numbers into the USA from Mexico are Mexican-born persons are tabulated by the U.S. Government.
The numbers into Mexico from the USA are tabulated by the Mexican government and include not only Mexican-born persons returning to Mexico but also persons born anywhere outside Mexico -- including the U.S.-born children of Mexicans going to Mexico with their Mexican-born parents and siblings.
Maybe I missed it, but I'm not sure how having a side arm makes the difference. Do guns have magical powers to identify dangerous people from safe people? It would seem the important change is asking people questions and searching their belongings before they get to the border. Unless the writer is expecting the agents to begin threatening or shooting people they consider dangerous as a matter of policy, it would seem the agents could just as easily ask people questions using their words. Just saying...
95
Well put!!
6
I think the point that the Times missed was that the Customs civil service titles that do this patrol work are armed and as long as they could not post armed members in Canada they would not participate in such functions. There's nothing miraculously effective about having guns.
Absolutely agree. Why does a border agent need a gun to check a queue of travelers? Do bad people intend to overpower the border agent and rush onto the plane/train/boat, or floor the gas pedal and crash through the barriers?
1
"walling off the entire southern boundary at great cost sends a hostile message that could snuff out the very cooperation needed to make our borders truly secure."
Bravo!, Mr. Kelly. But that's precisely the antagonistic message that Donald Trump wants to send to the Third World: "You're not welcome here! Get out! Now!"
In his abysmal ignorance, the next president has small interest in analyzing (or being annoyed with the details of) the bewildering historical and cultural complexities that define the movement of peoples. His alt-right white supremacy was the motivation for his political campaign. Mexico was the most visible and obvious monolithic symbol of his special concept of apartheid.
The danger, as you (and General John Kelly) point out is not the breaching of the actual physical, geographical lines that separate countries. It's the "preclearance" areas, wide and welcoming spaces to terrorists and gangs and drug cartels who see the lack of enforcement as their passports to continued success in undermining the stability of nations. These evils are like a cancer; they begin quietly, almost unobtrusively, until they are, yes, eating the host.
Canada and Mexico are correct to assume that our Second Amendment and its attendant cultural perversions are grave impediments in any joint cooperation of national security for countries with a genuine mission to protect their own people.
Donald Trump doesn't understand this, being a terrorist of a different sort himself.
Bravo!, Mr. Kelly. But that's precisely the antagonistic message that Donald Trump wants to send to the Third World: "You're not welcome here! Get out! Now!"
In his abysmal ignorance, the next president has small interest in analyzing (or being annoyed with the details of) the bewildering historical and cultural complexities that define the movement of peoples. His alt-right white supremacy was the motivation for his political campaign. Mexico was the most visible and obvious monolithic symbol of his special concept of apartheid.
The danger, as you (and General John Kelly) point out is not the breaching of the actual physical, geographical lines that separate countries. It's the "preclearance" areas, wide and welcoming spaces to terrorists and gangs and drug cartels who see the lack of enforcement as their passports to continued success in undermining the stability of nations. These evils are like a cancer; they begin quietly, almost unobtrusively, until they are, yes, eating the host.
Canada and Mexico are correct to assume that our Second Amendment and its attendant cultural perversions are grave impediments in any joint cooperation of national security for countries with a genuine mission to protect their own people.
Donald Trump doesn't understand this, being a terrorist of a different sort himself.
26
General John Kelly did not say, ""walling off the entire southern boundary at great cost sends a hostile message that could snuff out the very cooperation needed to make our borders truly secure."
Instead, that is what Stephen Kelly, the NYT columnist and university professor claimed that General John Kelly "seems to believe".
However, what General John Kelly actually said was, "A physical barrier in and of itself will not do the job."
Those such as Mr. Stephen Kelly who adamantly oppose the wall constantly insinuate that those who support the wall do say that the wall in and of itself will do the job, even though most who support the wall actually say that a wall, or other strong border barrier, is only one piece of immigration comprehensive control.
Instead, that is what Stephen Kelly, the NYT columnist and university professor claimed that General John Kelly "seems to believe".
However, what General John Kelly actually said was, "A physical barrier in and of itself will not do the job."
Those such as Mr. Stephen Kelly who adamantly oppose the wall constantly insinuate that those who support the wall do say that the wall in and of itself will do the job, even though most who support the wall actually say that a wall, or other strong border barrier, is only one piece of immigration comprehensive control.
1
General John Kelly did not say, ""walling off the entire southern boundary at great cost sends a hostile message that could snuff out the very cooperation needed to make our borders truly secure."
Instead, that is what Stephen Kelly, the NYT columnist and university professor claimed that General John Kelly "seems to believe".
However, what General John Kelly actually said was, "A physical barrier in and of itself will not do the job."
Those such as Mr. Stephen Kelly who adamantly oppose the wall constantly insinuate that those who support the wall do say that the wall in and of itself will do the job, even though most who support the wall actually say that a wall, or other strong border barrier, is only one piece of immigration comprehensive control.
Instead, that is what Stephen Kelly, the NYT columnist and university professor claimed that General John Kelly "seems to believe".
However, what General John Kelly actually said was, "A physical barrier in and of itself will not do the job."
Those such as Mr. Stephen Kelly who adamantly oppose the wall constantly insinuate that those who support the wall do say that the wall in and of itself will do the job, even though most who support the wall actually say that a wall, or other strong border barrier, is only one piece of immigration comprehensive control.
Mr. Kelly
As you are aware U.S. Customs has prescreened U.S. bound travelers at the Toronto airport for a long time. Expanding this existing program is a good thing. That said the problems faced on our southern border are different.
Our largely open southern border sees a number of illegal crossings by Mexicans and O.T.M.s. These crossings take place largely by foot. Currently illegally crossing the U.S. border is not a criminal offense as it is when crossing from the U.S. Into Mexico.
In the past it has been in the interests of many on both sides of our southern border for it to be "porous". Today a majority of American citizens want this changed for a variety of reasons. Mexico, both its government and its people have a large vested interest in keeping the U.S. border porous.
Mexico's largest source of foreign exchange is remittances from Mexicans working in the U.S. many doing so illegally. Past that Mexico transships illegals from further south to keep them from settling in Mexico, sending them north to the U.S. This flow is also a source of wealth for some in Mexico.
Making crossing our border illegally a criminal offense as it is in Mexico and then enforcing that law would go a long way towards reducing this illegal flow. Building a barrier wall also will go a long way in stopping the flow. Neither of these actions has been in Mexico's best interest, with the coming change in U.S. policy perhaps Mexico's "interests" can be changed as well.
As you are aware U.S. Customs has prescreened U.S. bound travelers at the Toronto airport for a long time. Expanding this existing program is a good thing. That said the problems faced on our southern border are different.
Our largely open southern border sees a number of illegal crossings by Mexicans and O.T.M.s. These crossings take place largely by foot. Currently illegally crossing the U.S. border is not a criminal offense as it is when crossing from the U.S. Into Mexico.
In the past it has been in the interests of many on both sides of our southern border for it to be "porous". Today a majority of American citizens want this changed for a variety of reasons. Mexico, both its government and its people have a large vested interest in keeping the U.S. border porous.
Mexico's largest source of foreign exchange is remittances from Mexicans working in the U.S. many doing so illegally. Past that Mexico transships illegals from further south to keep them from settling in Mexico, sending them north to the U.S. This flow is also a source of wealth for some in Mexico.
Making crossing our border illegally a criminal offense as it is in Mexico and then enforcing that law would go a long way towards reducing this illegal flow. Building a barrier wall also will go a long way in stopping the flow. Neither of these actions has been in Mexico's best interest, with the coming change in U.S. policy perhaps Mexico's "interests" can be changed as well.
34
My Esteemed Other Brother Richard:
You seek to counter fuzzy-headedness with logic, which isn't notably liberals' strong suit -- particularly when they're hair-afire-desperate to salvage SOMETHING from the recent electoral devastation. You usually employ humor very well -- and there's nothing LIKE humor to reveal the absurdity of absurd positions. As always, you get my "thumb", but you do humor in the causes of the illuminati vastly more effectively than you do serious.
You seek to counter fuzzy-headedness with logic, which isn't notably liberals' strong suit -- particularly when they're hair-afire-desperate to salvage SOMETHING from the recent electoral devastation. You usually employ humor very well -- and there's nothing LIKE humor to reveal the absurdity of absurd positions. As always, you get my "thumb", but you do humor in the causes of the illuminati vastly more effectively than you do serious.
1
Just to be clear:
"Currently illegally crossing the U.S. border is not a criminal offense as it is when crossing from the U.S. Into Mexico."
Undocumented border crossing into Mexico is NOT a criminal offense. And that, since 2011. For those who can read Spanish: http://www.informador.com.mx/mexico/2011/273557/6/con-nueva-ley-ningun-i...
"Currently illegally crossing the U.S. border is not a criminal offense as it is when crossing from the U.S. Into Mexico."
Undocumented border crossing into Mexico is NOT a criminal offense. And that, since 2011. For those who can read Spanish: http://www.informador.com.mx/mexico/2011/273557/6/con-nueva-ley-ningun-i...
1
Richard,
I too have dealt with our "neighbors and allies" over the years as I have worked quite a bit in both countries. I have a lot of observations, none humorous! One observation is that neither want us in their country unless we are there to spend money that we brought with us.
This sound fiscal based immigration policy is not a bad idea. In fact we too should employ it.
A second observation is Liberals have no sense of humor, try reading The "humor" in the "Daily Worker" if you don't believe me. Also Liberals don't travel to Mexico much, they should as it would give them a whole new prospective on the subject.
I too have dealt with our "neighbors and allies" over the years as I have worked quite a bit in both countries. I have a lot of observations, none humorous! One observation is that neither want us in their country unless we are there to spend money that we brought with us.
This sound fiscal based immigration policy is not a bad idea. In fact we too should employ it.
A second observation is Liberals have no sense of humor, try reading The "humor" in the "Daily Worker" if you don't believe me. Also Liberals don't travel to Mexico much, they should as it would give them a whole new prospective on the subject.
2
The southern border wall was just campaign rhetoric that happened to resonate with millions of Americans. The incoming president never once suggested building a wall on our Canadian border as a deterrent to possible illegal entry to the United States simply because it never occurred to him to do that. The president-elect's "hostile message" was directed at a multicultural nonwhite nation of Aztec and Mayan origins that seemed to be fair game for his populist approach to governance that, unhappily, was well received across the country.
67
Brilliant.
6
S.B.,
If you think Mexico is "Multicultural" you have never been there! Mexico is for Mexicans period. Those from further south need not apply. The process to migrate to Mexico is far more difficult and time consuming than is the U.S. Process, especially if you wish to work in competition with Mexican citizens. The sole exception is if you wish to retire there and bring enough money to support yourself. However you must prove you have the money in advance from outside of Mexico.
If this system is good enough for "Multicultural" Mexico, then we too should employ it.
If you think Mexico is "Multicultural" you have never been there! Mexico is for Mexicans period. Those from further south need not apply. The process to migrate to Mexico is far more difficult and time consuming than is the U.S. Process, especially if you wish to work in competition with Mexican citizens. The sole exception is if you wish to retire there and bring enough money to support yourself. However you must prove you have the money in advance from outside of Mexico.
If this system is good enough for "Multicultural" Mexico, then we too should employ it.
10
Well, there already is a tax-payer funded 2,000 mile border wall at the southern frontier - and it has been growing since 1990.
Take a look at it:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/03/160304-us-mexico-border-fence...
That so few Americans know this is a sorry sign of our times.
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