I was very interested in the question posed at the beginning of this story, about whether pet healthcare trends can shed light on rising human healthcare spending. Other than positing that emotions play an important role, I am not sure the question was answered or even explored, really. Please pick up the thread and continue working on this problem, because it's an important one and I will look forward to your next article!
48
I actually have Trupanion insurance for my dog and am incredibly grateful I do. They pay 90% and we pay 10%, and because my vet's office submits the claims for us I usually get a reimbursement check within the week, if we qualified for reimbursement.
If I were to do it again I'd sign my pet up for a wellness plan my vet has, that covers regular checkups and dental work and so on. Pet insurance won't pay for that. But when my dog injured his paw and needed stitches and a 3am trip to the emergency vet, I was glad we had it.
If I were to do it again I'd sign my pet up for a wellness plan my vet has, that covers regular checkups and dental work and so on. Pet insurance won't pay for that. But when my dog injured his paw and needed stitches and a 3am trip to the emergency vet, I was glad we had it.
13
We always try to keep our animals going for as long as possible -- but we also put them down when we feel their suffering outweighs their interest in food and in us.
That means we've spent lots of money and do not regret it -- on diagnosis and treatment for FIP way back when (successful, oddly enough), on insulin for over four years for an elderly diabetic cat, on hydration equipment for two years keeping another cat happy, on a week's stay in an animal hospital when yet another animal had an enormous infection in his chest and needed draining and intravenous antibiotics. That one, relatively young, survived and has thrived for years.
What we regret is starting chemo pills for a 13 1/2-year-old feline. It was a good try, but in hindsight, the several months it bought her weren't the best of months, and the last two weeks didn't need to happen.
When it's over, it's over. Let's hope someone does for me what we've done for our animals, all of whom, by the way, were rescues: Find a medical man who'll put me down in a sunny, comfortable spot in my own home.
That means we've spent lots of money and do not regret it -- on diagnosis and treatment for FIP way back when (successful, oddly enough), on insulin for over four years for an elderly diabetic cat, on hydration equipment for two years keeping another cat happy, on a week's stay in an animal hospital when yet another animal had an enormous infection in his chest and needed draining and intravenous antibiotics. That one, relatively young, survived and has thrived for years.
What we regret is starting chemo pills for a 13 1/2-year-old feline. It was a good try, but in hindsight, the several months it bought her weren't the best of months, and the last two weeks didn't need to happen.
When it's over, it's over. Let's hope someone does for me what we've done for our animals, all of whom, by the way, were rescues: Find a medical man who'll put me down in a sunny, comfortable spot in my own home.
39
I took my little love bird to the vet. It was having seizures and all around looked sick. I paid the $400 for tests, the vet said nothing was wrong, and the bird died two days later. I have decided as much as I love my little creatures, the vet is not as concerned about the animal as about generating more income; after this experience, I now weight the pros and cons of the creature having lived a good full life with me as opposed to submitting it to unnecessary and expensive tests at the vet; and, particularly, when its health fails near the end of its expected lifespan. Keeping a pet alive who has lived a good life is more about me and my own selfish interests not to lose a creature I have loved and nourished, than it is about the animal; and ultimately, what is in the animal's best interest.
30
It is wrong to call it "insurance" whether for humans or pets. It is socialized medicine. One may not use the money today but will certainly do so by the end of life.
Clearly a pet is owned and therefore property for which the owner is free to decide how much to invest or when to end it. The costs are all discretionary - not so for humans.
And I don't currently own a pet and will therefore no doubt be roundly ignored since only an owner can understand the angst and guilt.
Clearly a pet is owned and therefore property for which the owner is free to decide how much to invest or when to end it. The costs are all discretionary - not so for humans.
And I don't currently own a pet and will therefore no doubt be roundly ignored since only an owner can understand the angst and guilt.
3
Of course human health insurance is insurance.
My family and I have been very, very lucky – – no serious illnesses, injuries, or major surgeries, ever, over decades now. As a group, we pay well over $20,000 a year for our insurance. I think we have yet to meet our modest annual deductible to get a payout.
I have a cousin who was hit with a catastrophic illness several years ago – – unbelievably expensive and life altering. That cousin has paid in much less to the insurance pool, and has by now, still only 40, drawn out more than a healthy person ever would.
That's how insurance works. In the case of health insurance, the healthy people are the insurance "losers," but the life "winners."
Everybody should hope to be one of the financial "losers" in the health insurance pool.
My family and I have been very, very lucky – – no serious illnesses, injuries, or major surgeries, ever, over decades now. As a group, we pay well over $20,000 a year for our insurance. I think we have yet to meet our modest annual deductible to get a payout.
I have a cousin who was hit with a catastrophic illness several years ago – – unbelievably expensive and life altering. That cousin has paid in much less to the insurance pool, and has by now, still only 40, drawn out more than a healthy person ever would.
That's how insurance works. In the case of health insurance, the healthy people are the insurance "losers," but the life "winners."
Everybody should hope to be one of the financial "losers" in the health insurance pool.
30
What point do you make except for a semantic one?
People can decide to pull together and insure against any risk they choose to.
People can decide to pull together and insure against any risk they choose to.
10
"Clearly a pet is owned and therefore the property for which the owner is free
to decide how much to invest or when to end it."
Pets are PROPERTY?
Humans were once owned and considered property. Perhaps what is needed
are new laws that protect pets' rights.
I don't "own "a pet,nor have I ever "owned "one, but I can understand the angst and guilt that pet companions feel.
to decide how much to invest or when to end it."
Pets are PROPERTY?
Humans were once owned and considered property. Perhaps what is needed
are new laws that protect pets' rights.
I don't "own "a pet,nor have I ever "owned "one, but I can understand the angst and guilt that pet companions feel.
4
CONTINUED:
3. When you adopt the dog, commit in your heart that you will not prolong its life past the average lifespan of its breed or mix of breeds. After that point, comfort care only, then a painless goodbye in your loving arms when quality of life is too low to justify (try to get the vet to come to your home to reduce stress on the dog and you). All lives must end; financial resources are limited and important; and dogs on chemo do not understand why they must suffer every day (for that matter, neither did my late mother).
4. No running free! That's how dogs get hit by cars and ingest twigs. Leash walks and enclosure play only. Dog parks are wonderful for dogs who are social.
5. Always ask vets hard, direct questions about cost versus LIKELY benefit. Do not allow yourself to be manipulated by guilt. Remember that barber will always tell you that you need a haircut. Always keep in mind your own agenda: your family budget and the quality of life for your dog, whose needs are different from your own.
3. When you adopt the dog, commit in your heart that you will not prolong its life past the average lifespan of its breed or mix of breeds. After that point, comfort care only, then a painless goodbye in your loving arms when quality of life is too low to justify (try to get the vet to come to your home to reduce stress on the dog and you). All lives must end; financial resources are limited and important; and dogs on chemo do not understand why they must suffer every day (for that matter, neither did my late mother).
4. No running free! That's how dogs get hit by cars and ingest twigs. Leash walks and enclosure play only. Dog parks are wonderful for dogs who are social.
5. Always ask vets hard, direct questions about cost versus LIKELY benefit. Do not allow yourself to be manipulated by guilt. Remember that barber will always tell you that you need a haircut. Always keep in mind your own agenda: your family budget and the quality of life for your dog, whose needs are different from your own.
16
My life with dogs mirrors yours--three rescues and one purebreed.
2
I have owned 4 dogs over the course of my life, three of them shelter dogs and one a purebred. Soon I will be ready to adopt again (after the snow is gone – – never try to housetrain a puppy in the dead of a northeastern winter!).
Here is my advice on increasing your chances of keeping pet health costs down:
1. Adopt a mutt. Hybrid vigor is real. Many purebred lines have unfortunately been so inbred that health complications are all but inevitable. Neuroticism can also result from inbreeding. Mentally, escrow the big money you save by saving a discarded mutt rather than buying a purebred into an account called "doggy health care."
2. Dental prophylaxis! If you adopt a terrier mix or a brachycephalic dog, have a vet check the teeth immediately after puppyhood and remove any persistent baby teeth or overlapping teeth. These are bacteria traps. Spend a penny now on extraction to save many pounds later. Also, use a dental preventative additive in the drinking water every single day, and feed a high-quality dental chew each evening after dinner. Use only dry dog food – – the mushy stuff rots teeth. Not one of my dogs ever needed costly professional dental care, and they all had fresh breath and only minimal tartar buildup. Serious dental problems cause suffering and can spread bacteria to other systems, including the heart. Prevent!
Here is my advice on increasing your chances of keeping pet health costs down:
1. Adopt a mutt. Hybrid vigor is real. Many purebred lines have unfortunately been so inbred that health complications are all but inevitable. Neuroticism can also result from inbreeding. Mentally, escrow the big money you save by saving a discarded mutt rather than buying a purebred into an account called "doggy health care."
2. Dental prophylaxis! If you adopt a terrier mix or a brachycephalic dog, have a vet check the teeth immediately after puppyhood and remove any persistent baby teeth or overlapping teeth. These are bacteria traps. Spend a penny now on extraction to save many pounds later. Also, use a dental preventative additive in the drinking water every single day, and feed a high-quality dental chew each evening after dinner. Use only dry dog food – – the mushy stuff rots teeth. Not one of my dogs ever needed costly professional dental care, and they all had fresh breath and only minimal tartar buildup. Serious dental problems cause suffering and can spread bacteria to other systems, including the heart. Prevent!
12
I delivered my horse three months after my first child was born. I loved her almost as much as both my sons and sometimes more than their father. I had her until she was 25 and never questioned whether I would pay for her care.
She died 10 years ago and I still cry.
She died 10 years ago and I still cry.
32
My elderly rescue dog who I've had for 10 years (we think he was about 3 or 4 when we got him) started getting seizures last summer. Tests have ruled out Cushings, Valley Fever, liver disorders etc. so in all likelihood there are brain tumors. He gets 3 medications daily (provided inside bits of hotdog). The wonderful vet right in the neighborhood adjusts them when seizures become too frequent and he has trouble reorienting. He knows when one is coming and becomes clingy or retreats under my bed. When the meds stop working, we will let him go gently and have the peaceful death he deserves.
12
My pets looked me in the eye and told me "I've had enough". I was allow to take them to the Vet and "care" for them as needed. A very emotional day.
My Grandmother told me the same thing, and all I could do was wait, a very emotional three years.
My Grandmother told me the same thing, and all I could do was wait, a very emotional three years.
34
My pets are much more acceptable of my faults than my children are.
15
My cat had a brain tumor for which he received radiation therapy. The cost? Well, let's just say I didn't have to buy him a car or put him through college so to me it was worth it. My vet is fantastic. Tests, radiographs, etc are completed onsite, immediately as needed. I don't have to call the facility and make the appointments - one stop shopping. If only human healthcare was so efficient. On the few occasions my cats required an ER visit my vet called me the next day (notified by the ER staff) to follow up. As I said, if only the human healthcare system was as efficient.
23
I always find it interesting that people are willing to sacrifice for their pets or other people's pets but not to ensure that every person has access to decent affordable health care when they need it. And unless we die in an accident or stay healthy up until the day we die, every one of us will need to have access to health care.
24
I have followed and usually love your comments, but please rethink this one. It is not an either-or situation.
People spend disposable resources on so many stupid things. I agree that human needs are critical and under-met, but why single out that subpopulation who give and receive love to and from dogs and cats and other pets? Do you think some go overboard? Of course. As in every other area of life.
People spend disposable resources on so many stupid things. I agree that human needs are critical and under-met, but why single out that subpopulation who give and receive love to and from dogs and cats and other pets? Do you think some go overboard? Of course. As in every other area of life.
19
It's easier for a person to get medical attention for their pet than it is to get medical attention for him/herself. And too many people do not understand that medical care is a necessity, not an option.
6
It's not health care — it's sickness care. And I never use it. When I get sick, I figure it out and treat myself. I've been suffering for the last year from a chronic and uncomfortable malady, but I'm determined to try to fix it myself without going under the surgeon's knife, as I have fixed all my other problems in the past for many decades.
What is exasperating is the need for a doctor's script when one needs antibacterials, which in my view should be sold scriptfree over the counter at one's local pharmacy.
We've all become far too dependent on the so-called experts in the sickness sector to fix our problems instead of fixing ourselves.
What is exasperating is the need for a doctor's script when one needs antibacterials, which in my view should be sold scriptfree over the counter at one's local pharmacy.
We've all become far too dependent on the so-called experts in the sickness sector to fix our problems instead of fixing ourselves.
4
The Consumer Reports analysis is fatally flawed from its very inception. It suggests that insurance is not worthwhile unless you expect to get as much money back in terms of covered treatment costs as you pay in premiums. This ignores the entire purpose of insurance: to help you pay for an unexpected expense that you could not handle on your own. So you insure against comparatively rare conditions that are also comparatively expensive. You and your fellow policy holders put money in the pot, and those who need the help get it; those who don't need the help are out their insurance premiums.
Insurance works by spreading risk and cost over a large universe of premium payers. Why won't Medicare pay for an eye exam? Because everybody over a certain age, yes everybody, is going to suffer from presbyopia, the stiffening of the eye's focusing lens, and everybody will need spectacles to read. So the risk is 100% for everybody, and there is no way to spread risk and cost over a large cohort, most of whose members will never suffer from the condition, in order to cover the expenses for the relative few who do come down with the covered problem.
I have a kidney transplant, covered by Medicare. It cost a lot, and Medicare pays. But transplants are rare, so risk and cost can be spread. The CR study utterly ignores how insurance works. Of course you pay in more than you get back, if you're lucky! And the insurance company takes a bit of profit.
It works the same for pets and people.
Insurance works by spreading risk and cost over a large universe of premium payers. Why won't Medicare pay for an eye exam? Because everybody over a certain age, yes everybody, is going to suffer from presbyopia, the stiffening of the eye's focusing lens, and everybody will need spectacles to read. So the risk is 100% for everybody, and there is no way to spread risk and cost over a large cohort, most of whose members will never suffer from the condition, in order to cover the expenses for the relative few who do come down with the covered problem.
I have a kidney transplant, covered by Medicare. It cost a lot, and Medicare pays. But transplants are rare, so risk and cost can be spread. The CR study utterly ignores how insurance works. Of course you pay in more than you get back, if you're lucky! And the insurance company takes a bit of profit.
It works the same for pets and people.
16
It's understood that when 10 people pay for medical (or car, or homeowner's) insurance, not all of them will reap what they paid in. And the sum paid out to the small percentage of claimants will not equal what all subscribers paid in--- administrative costs come out of that.
As a consumer, you need to assess your risk exposure when determining whether to buy an insurance policy, what type, and for how much. This entails 2 things -- Event Probability, and Likely Exposure (how much that event could cost you). Most insurance, of course, covers a suite of events, so you have to assess your risk for multiple genetic and lifestyle - driven events.
If the likelihood of an event is high but the event is an ingrown toenail, insurance may not make sense. If the event is rare, but could cost an unmanageable amount, insurance may be worth it to you.
Assessing whether an insurance product *overall* is a good deal, as CR did, involves checking the probability and expected payout of coverage to see if a relatively high % of premiums is used for overhead, and if payouts are concentrated among VERY FEW policyholders. These both indicate that, in general, the product is not a good 'deal".
As a consumer, you need to assess your risk exposure when determining whether to buy an insurance policy, what type, and for how much. This entails 2 things -- Event Probability, and Likely Exposure (how much that event could cost you). Most insurance, of course, covers a suite of events, so you have to assess your risk for multiple genetic and lifestyle - driven events.
If the likelihood of an event is high but the event is an ingrown toenail, insurance may not make sense. If the event is rare, but could cost an unmanageable amount, insurance may be worth it to you.
Assessing whether an insurance product *overall* is a good deal, as CR did, involves checking the probability and expected payout of coverage to see if a relatively high % of premiums is used for overhead, and if payouts are concentrated among VERY FEW policyholders. These both indicate that, in general, the product is not a good 'deal".
2
May I recommend Jessica Pierce's excellent book "The Last Walk: Reflections on Our Pets at the End of Their Lives" for insight and guidance into the inevitability which all pet owners must someday face.
8
There is no managed care in vet care, so it's way worse than healthcare spending. Many of the corporate vet practices' only goal is to generate money. My dog had an upset stomach, but no other serious signs of illness after the vet exam. The vet wanted to do $400 of diagnostic tests. I doubt doctor would not do this on my first visit for an upset stomach, unless there was an obvious problem. I told the vet I didn't want to provide (or pay) for better healthcare for my dog than I would get, and would give it a few days before the full test option She didn't say anything. My dog's problem went away in a couple of days.
9
This kind of story is unfortunately more and more common these days. It's kind of like what happened with dentists. More and more professionals are "upselling" these days. It makes the patient (or his owner if the patient is a pet) feel suspicious and paranoid, as if on a used car lot.
The good news is that after some shopping around, several years ago I found both a dentist and a vet who are very straight, very down to earth, and do not push to sell extras or manipulate through guilt. The bad news is that both are over age 60. A dying breed.
Part of the problem is that professional trade groups have fought successfully to keep the role of the dental technician and vet technician very limited. Technicians could perform a majority of routine services in these areas. I am very familiar with this problem, as my own professional group, lawyers, has similarly fought to limit the role of paralegals to do the many types of routine work they are capable of performing competently.
Another source of the problem is the production of too many expensively educated professionals compared to demand for services. Lawyers are finally getting a handle on this after years of allowing laws school enrollment to grow irrationally.
The good news is that after some shopping around, several years ago I found both a dentist and a vet who are very straight, very down to earth, and do not push to sell extras or manipulate through guilt. The bad news is that both are over age 60. A dying breed.
Part of the problem is that professional trade groups have fought successfully to keep the role of the dental technician and vet technician very limited. Technicians could perform a majority of routine services in these areas. I am very familiar with this problem, as my own professional group, lawyers, has similarly fought to limit the role of paralegals to do the many types of routine work they are capable of performing competently.
Another source of the problem is the production of too many expensively educated professionals compared to demand for services. Lawyers are finally getting a handle on this after years of allowing laws school enrollment to grow irrationally.
20
I have a treasured vet ( under age 60!) who doesn't do that. I once had one who did. I had to learn to ask more specific questions: What does these symptoms usually suggest? What is it you are trying to learn or rule out?
In what way are these tests going to guide the decision? Would it make any difference in what you ( the owner /parent)are going to be done next?
What I saw is that with the test pusher, the ailments that eventually really did affect my dogs and cat were not the ones those pricey screens showed.
The on the other hand caution is that some pet parents believe that providing extensive tests is a sign of competence, and would blame a vet for missing an unusual problem. Those are the same folks who equate more medical care for humans with excellence. Some of us do not.
If you look at vet trade magazines you will see articles on how to increase your bottom line . . .
In what way are these tests going to guide the decision? Would it make any difference in what you ( the owner /parent)are going to be done next?
What I saw is that with the test pusher, the ailments that eventually really did affect my dogs and cat were not the ones those pricey screens showed.
The on the other hand caution is that some pet parents believe that providing extensive tests is a sign of competence, and would blame a vet for missing an unusual problem. Those are the same folks who equate more medical care for humans with excellence. Some of us do not.
If you look at vet trade magazines you will see articles on how to increase your bottom line . . .
10
Cheryl --
My dogs and I live near Yorktown Hts. Would you perhaps share vet name...?
My dogs and I live near Yorktown Hts. Would you perhaps share vet name...?
1
I think it's not so much emotion driving the increased spending but marketing. Medical care (for both humans and animals) used to be something you seek when ill or injured. Now it's marketed as an ongoing, inherent part of daily life, and that's become the new normal ...Frequent checkups, screening, expensive tests, lifelong preventative medications, etc. If you only seek medical care for your pet (or yourself) in cases of illness or injury, you're seen as irresponsible.
14
They want my cat to go in to get her teeth cleaned. I can't afford dental care for myself!
4
Its amazing to me that we spend billions on these animals and we object to spending money too care for our fellow humans. The subsidies we gu ic ve theu taxes are the way we can assure everyone has the right to health care. The 15 Billion on animals, the 8 billion on dog-cat food all are huge numbers when we look at food stamps for the needy which we want to take away. WE are becoming a noncaring, non sharing, suspicious tribal country.
7
I understand your point, but do you see the logical end point of this line of reasoning? Who is going to tell individuals how they may or may not spend their disposable resources, and by what standard?
9
I have spent a lot on my pets over the years and I also believe that health care is a human right. When it comes to voting I always vote for people who will support universal health care. The two are not necessarily opposed.
17
And yet, per the very article you've just read, claims there's over a TRILLION dollars spent on human health care annually. Yep, we're surely objecting to human healthcare spending. LOL ( Wake me when we spend over $100 billion annually on our animal healthcare. They generally show more gratitude for their care!
3
"Fido or you?"...15 billion a year wasted on pets...meanwhile children die of hunger.
4
Why compare the kids to the pets? Why not compare them to something like Brazilian butt lifts or hand guns?
18
Or giant SUVs or monstrous houses...the list goes on. Personally I would never trust someone who hated animals.
18
$15 billion spent on adoring, life-affirming companions. Meanwhile many billions are spent on specialty coffee, weapons of mass destruction, long hot showers, manicures, movie tickets...wasted, indeed.
22
Our beloved cat was euthanized at home after long illnesses. It is a very sad of course but the vet handled beautifully. Our cat was in a safe familiar place and died in my husband's arms. Would it be so awful if we humans went this way? In a familiar, safe environment surrounded by loved ones and without the sense of crisis and anxiety that happens in hospitals. I've seen home seemed so much more loving. better.
19
I reached the same conclusion about pet insurance when I got my first cat in 2003. Not only were there co-pays and deductibles, but there were also yearly limits on what would be paid overall.
I never thought of it as "self-insurance," but simply budgeted a monthly amount for pet med/dental as I do for myself. My last (2nd) cat was put down in October. He cost me close to $5000 in 2015, but I had saved for that. When he died with multiple problems including deteriorating lung function and a neurological issue which made his right legs not work right, I knew I had done all that I could for him. I have no regrets.
I never thought of it as "self-insurance," but simply budgeted a monthly amount for pet med/dental as I do for myself. My last (2nd) cat was put down in October. He cost me close to $5000 in 2015, but I had saved for that. When he died with multiple problems including deteriorating lung function and a neurological issue which made his right legs not work right, I knew I had done all that I could for him. I have no regrets.
8
We--- veterinarians, doctors, and patients--all need to accept that all life ends. Drastic, expensive end of life avoidance procedures just drain families emotionally and financially. I have had lots of experience with vets, and some use guilt and a tunnel vision approach to "solve" the medical crisis with futile expensive care. Other vets have seen the bigger picture and gently explained options reminding me that a cats life span is always much shorter than a humans and suffering for both pet and owner is also a consideration.
I have been taken to the cleaners by VPI pet insurance that failed to cover costs written into the agreement while raising my premiums. I spent thousands of dollars on cancer treatments just to extend my poor pets life for several months. I learned the hard way...I would never do that again. It caused needless excessive suffering for me and my pet as well as financial hardship. And death was still the inevitable result.
I have been taken to the cleaners by VPI pet insurance that failed to cover costs written into the agreement while raising my premiums. I spent thousands of dollars on cancer treatments just to extend my poor pets life for several months. I learned the hard way...I would never do that again. It caused needless excessive suffering for me and my pet as well as financial hardship. And death was still the inevitable result.
11
Key differences between pets and humans...the pets don't ask "what if"s or make us feel guilty about difficult decisions. They don't ask for 3 more hours or days or months to finish things left undone, whether reconciliations or retributions.
3
Toxic pet food and a sick environment are killing our pets. I never had cats with kidney failure until the early 21st century. The pet food industry is unregulated by the FDA and has been outsourced to China, which has produced poison pet treats and not suffered any consequences for killing our pets (not to mention torture in the fur industry, etc.). Lawn chemicals and poisons abound - these are also toxic to humans. And the dementia crisis - long term care insurance is prohibitively expensive - is eating up savings. None of this has anything to do with sentiment, everything to do with nonregulated, out of control toxicity in our food supply (GMOs, pesticides). One of Obama's last and his most heinous act as president was to sign the Monsanto protection act, and I'm sure things will only get worse under Trump and a GOP dominated House. Most of the chemicals we use are BANNED under other countries, and no one wants to import our food. So our economy and agricultural industry have also been destroyed.
10
You lost the evidence-based people when you put GMOs in the same category as toxins.
One may have rational concerns about potential future longterm ecosystem effects linked to genetic tinkering (as I do), but there is zero evidence that GMOs are producing unhealthful food -- in fact, there is mountainous evidence that GMO food is as fit to eat as any other.
Facts should stay central to those of us to the left as we fight against their lost currency to the right.
One may have rational concerns about potential future longterm ecosystem effects linked to genetic tinkering (as I do), but there is zero evidence that GMOs are producing unhealthful food -- in fact, there is mountainous evidence that GMO food is as fit to eat as any other.
Facts should stay central to those of us to the left as we fight against their lost currency to the right.
10
A great response. Thank you!
2
There's a lot of emotions involved indeed; and often a lot of pressure to make decisions to over-use end-of-life care for both humans and pets. There is also the general idea that "if you make it they will come:" the mere existence of newer technologies and treatments, which always cost more than older ones, mean that they beckon, sometimes as last resort treatments - and people may feel they failed their companions if they opt not to use them. There are fellow pet owners, and veterinarians - and human relatives - who will use guilt to "motivate" caretakers towards costly decisions that don't make sense in terms of comfort. Many people also really get angry if asked to think about the decision as one of cost-benefit ( benefit to cost might express this better); as if merely considering the price is unthinkable. That was a proble once, if you recall, when Oregon once tried to rationalize the use of capped funding to cover medical benefits under Medicaid -- it seemed that many would rather use up the all funds, sort of first come first serve, then consciously think about such decisions.
3
I have a 12 1/2 year old Shiba/husky/lab mix whom I adopted when she was a puppy. I adore her despite her weirdly haughty, cat-like ways. Her routine vet care costs about $1,300 a year, including shots and routine preventatives (we live in a high-cost area). My dog has not had a significant illness or injury to date.
If she experienced a serious health challenge at this stage of life, I would end her life without any (non-palliative) treatment as soon as she became uncomfortable. I knew when she passed her 10th birthday that each day henceforth was a bonus. I know that her life must come to an end, just as my own will.
Pets have no concept of mortality or sense of existential dread. When they can no longer enjoy their day, what are they living for? Just for us? To me, that's not good enough. And it made definitely feels wrong to me to prolong actual suffering or to spend lavishly on human-type treatments, especially at the late stage of a pet's life.
I understand that many feel otherwise. I am sharing my view because it is little represented in these comments.
If she experienced a serious health challenge at this stage of life, I would end her life without any (non-palliative) treatment as soon as she became uncomfortable. I knew when she passed her 10th birthday that each day henceforth was a bonus. I know that her life must come to an end, just as my own will.
Pets have no concept of mortality or sense of existential dread. When they can no longer enjoy their day, what are they living for? Just for us? To me, that's not good enough. And it made definitely feels wrong to me to prolong actual suffering or to spend lavishly on human-type treatments, especially at the late stage of a pet's life.
I understand that many feel otherwise. I am sharing my view because it is little represented in these comments.
55
I couldn't agree more. If the pet can't do what they enjoy and have no chance of improving, then we owe it to them to end their suffering. As difficult as it is to do, it is the humane thing to do. We can't keep them alive for OUR comfort. Ask a friend to take them to the vet when their time has come. I have seen how peaceful the "going to sleep" process is.
7
I also agree. I'm a pet owner and a critical care physician who works in end-of-life research. I've had to be very clear whenever we have a pet health crisis that we want to emphasize quality of life and avoid suffering, even if it means shortening life. Our primary vet understands and supports this, but I've had to be very firm whenever we have dealt with more technologically advanced vet care. Because I am well-educated about health care, I've been able to avoid putting my cat and my dogs through futile or unnecessary surgery, chemotherapy, diagnostics, and so forth. I've saved money in the process, I suppose, but I've also stayed true to my commitment to my pets. They can't understand the "why" of even short-term suffering caused by medical care, so if there is no meaningful chance of quick recovery, I avoid that treatment. Even when it breaks my heart to say goodbye, I know I've made the best choice for my pets.
20
I agree. I think when people try to extend their pet's life beyond all bounds it is for the person not the dog. I do understand that it's hard to let go, but is it really in the best interest of the pet.
3
I got stuck with a $2,500 bill when my cat had an emergency overnight stay in a pet hospital ICU unit. The next morning the vet recommended that she be euthanized. I cannot help but think I got bilked for a possibly extravagant end-of-life treatment that could have been fore-gone and avoided. I was ready to euthanize when she first entered the ICU but the vet wanted to wait overnight, a few hours that really cost me.
25
But that wait really paid the vet... Did you consider any alternatives to simply paying his bill?
4
Once upon a time there was no dental insurance, and then there was, and then dental charges grew exponentially. Same with vision insurance. Same with pet insurance.
And so it seems that the market will bear what insurance will cover.
And so it seems that the market will bear what insurance will cover.
6
Dental insurance has rather low annual reimbursement limits (usually, from $1000 to $2000), covers major procedures like crowns or bridges only at 50 or 60% and usually doesn't cover expensive care like implants at all. It's main purpose is to encourage good dental hygiene (insured cleanings are free or cheap) and allow the negotiated pricing with Dental PPO participating doctors. For that matter, there'd been zero growth in dental insurance costs for the last 10 years.
Vision care insurance is essentially a scheme allowing the people needing glasses or contacts to buy into a negotiated pricing, for a fee... It's not an insurance.
Vision care insurance is essentially a scheme allowing the people needing glasses or contacts to buy into a negotiated pricing, for a fee... It's not an insurance.
19
Dental care for pets is exceedingly important. Infections in the teeth/mouth can affect the hearts of our pets. I adopted a cat several years ago that had to have all his teeth removed because the teeth were in such bad shape. He now eats dry and canned food very well, even without teeth.
Low cost dental care is available in several cities. The fund's name is Pet's Tooth Fairy Fund at dogbeachvet.com
8
There's a rather profound difference between vet care and health care. One can euthenize a cat when the vet bills are too high but you can't do that with your child. Consequently, insurance for vet care is much less necessary than human health insurance because, in effect, one can always limit one's financial commitment.
16
The real analysis should be on the principle and value of insurance itself. It has become a driving factor in so many of our actions. It is a form of statistical gambling based on cultivated fear and (statistically) never to the benefit of the one spending on it. House always wins.
6
Nonsense. All the "lucky" people who get a catastrophic illness or injury "win" against the house called the insurance pool. My cousin really won big after aggressive MS unexpectedly came calling when he was only 26. And he hadn't even bothered "cultivating" a fear of it!
3
Don't know about you, but my healthcare also includes wellness visits and I have had a few very expensive tests and x-rays because I had serious health problems that even wellness visits couldn't have prevented. I feel very lucky to have worked for an entity that offered health insurance and still does to its retirees.
2
Why we (or some of us) regard health care as a rational, market-driven business has always mystified me. Whether it involves our parents, siblings, spouses or pets, care decisions for the most part involve emotional choices. We hate to see suffering (no matter how slight) in those we regard.
So long as that's true, we will spend spend spend, no matter how futile the effort.
So long as that's true, we will spend spend spend, no matter how futile the effort.
9
And while I agree and despise suffering I also think that a culture not geared toward the reality of death is a culture with problems. There comes a time when the exit is not to be delayed to the profit of others.
16
I see it in my local park - people who don't relate well to other humans - standing around in a circle staring at their dogs - presumably talking about training or the cost of vet care for their dogs
dogs don't speak English so can't tell us their thoughts - so owners tend to project their own feelings onto them - 'oh - see how he's looking at me - that's love !' - when it might actually be - 'hey jailer - how long do I have to wait for you to feed me ?'
we all want love - but many are bad at human relationships - so pet owners can project all that unconditional love onto something which can't talk back - a small furry animal - 'ah - they love me!' - about as realistic and true as their ability to elicit love from a fellow human being - which they failed at.
so people who have completely failed at human relationships - can leave their life savings in their will - to their pet - ah, that's love ! Or more likely - a failure to give and receive that from fellow humans.
dogs don't speak English so can't tell us their thoughts - so owners tend to project their own feelings onto them - 'oh - see how he's looking at me - that's love !' - when it might actually be - 'hey jailer - how long do I have to wait for you to feed me ?'
we all want love - but many are bad at human relationships - so pet owners can project all that unconditional love onto something which can't talk back - a small furry animal - 'ah - they love me!' - about as realistic and true as their ability to elicit love from a fellow human being - which they failed at.
so people who have completely failed at human relationships - can leave their life savings in their will - to their pet - ah, that's love ! Or more likely - a failure to give and receive that from fellow humans.
6
I am not sure I get the point you are making. Are you saying only people with failed relationships either have dogs, spend more on their dogs, or go to parks?
12
You may see that in your park, but your comments indicate that you likely never tried talking to any of these pet owners. You would find that people who are empathetic towards pets are much more so likely to be great as friends as well, and who have more skills not fewer in relating to fellow humans. Your statements are based on a false dichotomy that one cannot be a good people person and a good pet person at the same time. It is not the love of the pets that brings joy to most pet owners I know, rather the ability to care for another living creature and provide it with a good life, rather than be self centered. It is not about getting love, it is about giving it, whether to pets or fellow humans.
5
No - just an observation about some local people I see who are quite abrasive in their human interactions but I see focusing on and fussing with their dogs - which seems to me an avoidance or replacement for their failure to relate well with other humans.
I go to parks all the time - but I don't stand around in a circle with dog owners and stare at my dog.
I go to parks all the time - but I don't stand around in a circle with dog owners and stare at my dog.
2
The two pictures that accompany the article show why we are willing to send so much on our pets. You just want to save them!
Adopted my fourth shelter cat a few months ago after one of my older cats died. This kitten was pretty sick as she had been abandoned outside in the desert.
One thousand dollars later she is doing great. I was a bit stressed going through all her issues but it's money well spent.
Because, honestly? She adopted me and I'm better off for it.
Adopted my fourth shelter cat a few months ago after one of my older cats died. This kitten was pretty sick as she had been abandoned outside in the desert.
One thousand dollars later she is doing great. I was a bit stressed going through all her issues but it's money well spent.
Because, honestly? She adopted me and I'm better off for it.
7
I was recently told that a dental cleaning for my cat would be $1000. However, I know a vet in Mexico who charged me $17 a few months ago to clean and stitch a large wound from a dog bite received by my dog, cleaned her teeth, thinned her thick hindquarters fur and generally groomed her while she was sedated. I would spend less flying there, staying in a hotel and getting the cat's teeth cleaned and that's just what I'm going to do. I know that this vet will safely and carefully do a wonderful job.
13
I hope the vet did xrays to check under the surface of the teeth. That's the place lots of problems are.
3
Having had dogs all my life, I learned through bitter experience that there is a point in time when you have to stop.
The veterinarians won't tell you that. My experience has been that they will prolong the treatments as long as possible.
Just a few months ago, I actually had to argue with the vet to put down one of my dogs who was old and sick and wasn't going to get better.
Same argument when I put down a different dog ten years ago (and my personal favorite of any of my dogs) when she developed lymphoma. He said, oh, you can extend her life for s few months. I responded, she's 14, she's had a good life, why should I make her suffer?
And yet I know people who have spent over $10,000 to gain a few months.
It's hard to be logical when it's such an emotional time.
The veterinarians won't tell you that. My experience has been that they will prolong the treatments as long as possible.
Just a few months ago, I actually had to argue with the vet to put down one of my dogs who was old and sick and wasn't going to get better.
Same argument when I put down a different dog ten years ago (and my personal favorite of any of my dogs) when she developed lymphoma. He said, oh, you can extend her life for s few months. I responded, she's 14, she's had a good life, why should I make her suffer?
And yet I know people who have spent over $10,000 to gain a few months.
It's hard to be logical when it's such an emotional time.
44
Find a better vet. I've reached the end stages with several of my cats. and my vet has never pushed me to continue futile treatment. They have always been honest about what was possible and what wasn't. and focused on palliative care or suggested euthanasia when appropriate, while leaving the choices in my hands.
13
Just like all other spending decision we make with our household budgets. I earn my own income, it is the American way that I get to decide how to spend it whether on a boat, a vacation, expensive meals out, on another person or on a pet.
6
Agree! I think my dogs are worth more than an expensive car or home, but that is strictly my opinion and not a judgement on people who disagree. And it certainly is my money to do with as I wish, given that I earn it.
1
One thing vets have that human health care providers don't have is a set price list. I think the opacity helps lead to higher costs for people.
Even though they have a lot of the same equipment, a vet clinic is smaller than a hospital and doesn't have to have some facilities hospitals do, such as cafeterias. Their overhead is somewhat lower because of that.
Even though they have a lot of the same equipment, a vet clinic is smaller than a hospital and doesn't have to have some facilities hospitals do, such as cafeterias. Their overhead is somewhat lower because of that.
8
True. Another factor is that some expensive equipment, such as MRI and CAT scan machines, is portable and shared by several specialized clinics. The cost of an MRI on my cat was $1700 (including anesthesia, since cats do not sit still for MRIs without it), which was not insignificant, but it pales in comparison to the cost of the same procedure on a human -- which, without insurance, can easily hit $5,000-10,000 (not including anesthesia, which humans are presumed not to need). Shared resources and using older but still serviceable machines produces significant savings.
7
This article makes no attempt to examine the causes of high human health care costs in the US; instead it simply assumes that they must be due to end-of-life care. but that care is not much different in developed countries with much lower per capita health care costs.
The major difference accounting for high costs in the US is excessive administrative overhead and the duplication and triplication of expensive health care facilities in a system in which costs can be passed through insurers to the consumers.
The major difference accounting for high costs in the US is excessive administrative overhead and the duplication and triplication of expensive health care facilities in a system in which costs can be passed through insurers to the consumers.
10
Very rigorous studies have shown that in the US health system on average more is spent in the last six months of an individual's life than in all the years that went before.
4
And that's a problem. But you cannot know in advance on which day those last six months of life begin. So with a human when you see a potentially fatal problem you treat it because sometimes with treatment comes recovery and a life far longer than six months. Ive been on the receiving end of such treatment.
To be sure, sometimes with either cat or human you do know that the illness is going to be fatal in a "short" time and so care switches to palliative treatment.
To be sure, sometimes with either cat or human you do know that the illness is going to be fatal in a "short" time and so care switches to palliative treatment.
3
The cost of pet care no doubt varies depending on where you live. If you are fortunate enough to live in a city with a veterinary school you will normally find state of the art care at state of the art prices. Bear in mind that vet schools are teaching institutions and as such are almost always determined to treat an animal even when the likelihood of "reasonable" success (here measured both in terms of time and quality of life) can be limited. It isn't a lack of compassion, but it is a attitude that doctors and veterinarians share: illness is a problem to be solved and fixed.
2
Vets at vet schools are also salaried, which reduces the incentive to pad bills with unexpected expenses. I LOVE working with Va Tech vets, who are always helping to educate me, as a customer, almost as if I were a student. At no extra cost. One time when I had a private vet over for some routine Coggins blood sampling on my broodmare herd, I asked her something about mare supplements. I later found a $25 "consulting" fee added to my bill. Wow.
Veterinarians are skilled compassionate folks who care for animals.
Physicians, for the most part, are skilled at manipulating insurance regulations and drug formularies.
Physicians, for the most part, are skilled at manipulating insurance regulations and drug formularies.
11
Bloomberg News just did a couple of excellent articles on Mars Candy taking over veterinary practices. They already own Banfield Vet which makes it's money by upselling to owners & making pets sick so they require more treatment. Mars just announced they are buying VCA, which is already practicing corporate veterinary medicine. You can bet on it that when corporations take over professional practices, the quality of services go down, the number of unnecessary services increase & the costs sky rocket. The cost of veterinary care is rising everywhere & we now have 24-hour emergency clinics & various specialists. However, pets are a luxury, NOT a necessity, so they will always be expendable to certain owners if they become too expensive.
9
My experience at 24 hr. VCA clinics supports the report you cite. I found the doctors were almost always in favor of doing a lot of tests even though they were not always necessary. They were also considerably more expensive than my regular vet. I made it a practice of doing only what was necessary and following up with my vet for any further testing.
6
Why should pets be a luxury? Perhaps only in the capitalist, fascist, United Snakes of Amerika.
1
I had one very bad experience that soured me on end of life care for my cats. Several years back my elderly cat had a quick downturn, so I took her to the vet to have her put down. I've seen enough animals at the end of life to know my cat wasn't going to get better. However, the associate vet convinced me the cat had a simple infection that would be cured in a week with antibiotics. At the end of that extra week, I was in anguish over my cat's condition. Administering the medication had been torture for my cat, because as anyone with a cat knows they do not like pills. Her condition had continued to deteriorate, and it was obvious she was suffering. When I took her in again I saw my regular vet who recognized my cat had a heart problem, and put her down. To this day it makes me cry that false hope instilled by that associate vet caused so much suffering and distress.
If you have had an animal that survived a major illness, I'm happy for you and your pet. However, I believe that insurance did indeed cause the price of human medicine to rise, and that insurance for pets will be used to promote costly therapies. Wanting to do the humane thing for your animal will be looked down on. Yet, your pet cannot explain what it is feeling, and you cannot convey your hopefulness for the treatment. The balance sheets of the veterinary clinic and the pharmaceutical companies are the only real winners.
If you have had an animal that survived a major illness, I'm happy for you and your pet. However, I believe that insurance did indeed cause the price of human medicine to rise, and that insurance for pets will be used to promote costly therapies. Wanting to do the humane thing for your animal will be looked down on. Yet, your pet cannot explain what it is feeling, and you cannot convey your hopefulness for the treatment. The balance sheets of the veterinary clinic and the pharmaceutical companies are the only real winners.
18
I don't think it's insurance that's causing this. I think it's the fact that diagnostic tools, orthopedic surgeries, and cancer treatments are being adapted for pets. Here's my personal experience with these things. About 12 years ago, one of my dogs came up lame with a torn CCL. The vet who fixed it was the first orthopedic specialist to set up a practice in our county. He recommended extensive exercises for us to do. Eventually she had to have a second surgery to remove the plate and pins but the remaining 12 years from the first surgery onward were happy and uneventful. She was a great dog and I don't regret the cost for the two surgeries which was in the thousands of dollars. However when a much older dog and less active dog of ours also had a (less extensive) CCL tear we opted for a less drastic surgery and he also lived out a long and happy life.
Fast forward to now and my four year old dog was body slammed by another dog and suffered an FCE injury (sometimes called a spinal stroke). By now the veterinary orthopedic specialist has been joined by other specialists including a veterinary neurologist, a cancer specialist, an internal medicine specialist and a rehab specialist. The diagnosis was confirmed by the MRI and rehab at the vet hospital was recommended. He's gradually recovering between rehab there and at home. At the same time I have no problem recognizing when the end is near and when a pet is suffering. That wasn't the case with either dog.
Fast forward to now and my four year old dog was body slammed by another dog and suffered an FCE injury (sometimes called a spinal stroke). By now the veterinary orthopedic specialist has been joined by other specialists including a veterinary neurologist, a cancer specialist, an internal medicine specialist and a rehab specialist. The diagnosis was confirmed by the MRI and rehab at the vet hospital was recommended. He's gradually recovering between rehab there and at home. At the same time I have no problem recognizing when the end is near and when a pet is suffering. That wasn't the case with either dog.
8
I have had 2 beloved cats put down in the not so distant past. I do not believe in extended lengthy treatments for dogs and cats. They do not see radical interventions as helpful and heroic efforts only add to their stress while sick.
The decision to euthanize a pet is not an easy one but there isn't much of a point in allowing a pet to suffer either.
The decision to euthanize a pet is not an easy one but there isn't much of a point in allowing a pet to suffer either.
14
"You trust your vet as you would trust your doctor to do what is best..." No, no and no. Not when my health care choices and doctor's recommendations for treatment are being driven by my insurance company.
No, first I trust myself first (or my medical surrogate). Then maybe, trust of my doctor will come but only after after asking the doctor why is he or she recommending a certain course of treatment (and expecting clear answers), querying the insurance company to be sure said treatment is covered, all providers are in-network, etc. and attempting to find out the cost.
The medical providers don't like this, but nor do i like paying the price for blind trust.
No, first I trust myself first (or my medical surrogate). Then maybe, trust of my doctor will come but only after after asking the doctor why is he or she recommending a certain course of treatment (and expecting clear answers), querying the insurance company to be sure said treatment is covered, all providers are in-network, etc. and attempting to find out the cost.
The medical providers don't like this, but nor do i like paying the price for blind trust.
25
Perhaps the parallel in health care costs has a common foundation - unhealthy lifestyles and lack of basic self care knowledge.
As our pets have become more integrated into family life, we have done for them what we have done to ourselves. They are fed convenience foods, asked to spend sedentary days indoors while the owner works and then offered precious little exercise except maybe a trip to the dog park on the weekends. Is it any wonder our pets suffer from chronic long term diseases such as diabetes, obesity, kidney disease and heart failure?
Just as we have slowly given up our knowledge about self treatment of common illnesses, animal husbandry is a lost art. At the first sign of the sniffles Mommy brings Junior to the MD just as Fluffy is rushed off to the vet because of some loose stools. The commonsense treatments for these simple complaints has been lost to endless marketing that fills our heads with thoughts of inadequacies and leaves us fearing that we will put our charges in dire straits should a "professional" not be consulted. Of course these mundane conditions will be treated with drugs even if 24 hours would see them resolve on their own.
We have the capacity to care for both ourselves and our animal companions without relying on doctors for the more pedestrian illnesses. Indeed most medical expenses are experienced nearer to the end of life, but how much of that could be avoided with proper nutrition and healthy amounts of exercise.
As our pets have become more integrated into family life, we have done for them what we have done to ourselves. They are fed convenience foods, asked to spend sedentary days indoors while the owner works and then offered precious little exercise except maybe a trip to the dog park on the weekends. Is it any wonder our pets suffer from chronic long term diseases such as diabetes, obesity, kidney disease and heart failure?
Just as we have slowly given up our knowledge about self treatment of common illnesses, animal husbandry is a lost art. At the first sign of the sniffles Mommy brings Junior to the MD just as Fluffy is rushed off to the vet because of some loose stools. The commonsense treatments for these simple complaints has been lost to endless marketing that fills our heads with thoughts of inadequacies and leaves us fearing that we will put our charges in dire straits should a "professional" not be consulted. Of course these mundane conditions will be treated with drugs even if 24 hours would see them resolve on their own.
We have the capacity to care for both ourselves and our animal companions without relying on doctors for the more pedestrian illnesses. Indeed most medical expenses are experienced nearer to the end of life, but how much of that could be avoided with proper nutrition and healthy amounts of exercise.
6
I didn't take my children to the dr. for every sniffle and I don't take my pets to the vet for the equivalent. But when a dr. is needed, I take myself, my kids or them for help. As for healthy lifestyles, my border collies spend their lives working sheep and I eat well and exercise regularly. The truth is that we can do much more for illness than we once could. My grandmother was diagnosed with breast cancer in 1951 and was told to put her life in order because nothing could be done. She died within the year. My mother was diagnosed similarly and lived well for ten more years. I prefer the latter choice.
14
About twelve years ago, I married a woman who was born and raised in the Caribbean - but has lived here for many years.
Since our marriage, we visit her home country every year to see friends and family - and over that time I have obviously learned many specifics about their culture -- one of which is how they care for their domestic pets -
Since the weather is warm and balmy almost every single day, almost nobody keeps their pets in the house -- with dogs kept in a fenced-in back yard, and most cats allowed to roam free -
My wife's home-island is completely free of rabies, feline leukemia, etc -- and since pets are outside most of the time, there is no such thing as - what one might call - an Indoor Pet Industry --
There's no need for litter boxes or all those indoor accessories connected which are heavily marketed to "Pet Parents" here in America -
Yes, there are vets in case of injury -- but many people also own livestock - so those vets are basically one-size-fits-all --
People there love, enjoy and care for their pets - but also realize the boundary between their animals and themselves -- there are no advertisements on TV for pet products, pet health care, etc -- there is no such thing as a marketable pet-care industry -
And - part of the reason rabies doesn't exist anywhere on the island is a result of their very strict non-import policy - and if you want to bring your pet over there it must stay in quarantine for a full six months before being set free...
Since our marriage, we visit her home country every year to see friends and family - and over that time I have obviously learned many specifics about their culture -- one of which is how they care for their domestic pets -
Since the weather is warm and balmy almost every single day, almost nobody keeps their pets in the house -- with dogs kept in a fenced-in back yard, and most cats allowed to roam free -
My wife's home-island is completely free of rabies, feline leukemia, etc -- and since pets are outside most of the time, there is no such thing as - what one might call - an Indoor Pet Industry --
There's no need for litter boxes or all those indoor accessories connected which are heavily marketed to "Pet Parents" here in America -
Yes, there are vets in case of injury -- but many people also own livestock - so those vets are basically one-size-fits-all --
People there love, enjoy and care for their pets - but also realize the boundary between their animals and themselves -- there are no advertisements on TV for pet products, pet health care, etc -- there is no such thing as a marketable pet-care industry -
And - part of the reason rabies doesn't exist anywhere on the island is a result of their very strict non-import policy - and if you want to bring your pet over there it must stay in quarantine for a full six months before being set free...
4
A few years ago we were visiting a community in Mexico where a spay and neuter clinic was being conducted by vet students. One of the cats needed extra attention and the leader of the clinic was very clear with the students that they should make sure that the cat did well because if it died no one in the community would agree to neuter their animals. She stressed that the local people loved their animals and did not want to see them harmed. But their needs as people were barely being met and the decision about how much to treat pets was made very simply. They could only afford the basics and so that was what they did.
3
@Ceilidth -
Thank you for your comment and interesting story -
However, I would just like to emphasize that the people to whom I was referring on that Caribbean island were NOT poor and/or living in impoverished conditions - nor did I mean to imply such in my comment -
In my case, those people simply have an approach to domestic pet ownership and care which differs significantly from the huge billion-dollar American pet-care business to which have become inculcated -
There are no TV commercials with "single-parent pet owners" giving their animals expensive, high-end food, and then nuzzling and playing with them in their perfect and beautiful homes -
There are no public areas where pet owners go to walk their dogs and mingle with other owners -
There are no pet stores where people go on the weekend to have their pet groomed by a "professional" groomer --
Once I saw what I thought was an adolescent kitten - until I was informed that in that environment, adult cats rarely grow larger than that size -- and, in fact, I never saw anyone with a large and fat-looking cat -
These owners are all professionals with jobs, families, good homes, modern cars, and plenty of resources for a vet bill, if and when that might become necessary...
I understand your point regarding the plight of those Mexican pet owners - which differs from the one which was trying to make...
Thank you for your comment and interesting story -
However, I would just like to emphasize that the people to whom I was referring on that Caribbean island were NOT poor and/or living in impoverished conditions - nor did I mean to imply such in my comment -
In my case, those people simply have an approach to domestic pet ownership and care which differs significantly from the huge billion-dollar American pet-care business to which have become inculcated -
There are no TV commercials with "single-parent pet owners" giving their animals expensive, high-end food, and then nuzzling and playing with them in their perfect and beautiful homes -
There are no public areas where pet owners go to walk their dogs and mingle with other owners -
There are no pet stores where people go on the weekend to have their pet groomed by a "professional" groomer --
Once I saw what I thought was an adolescent kitten - until I was informed that in that environment, adult cats rarely grow larger than that size -- and, in fact, I never saw anyone with a large and fat-looking cat -
These owners are all professionals with jobs, families, good homes, modern cars, and plenty of resources for a vet bill, if and when that might become necessary...
I understand your point regarding the plight of those Mexican pet owners - which differs from the one which was trying to make...
2
I agree that attitudes towards pets vary culturally and that's true in the US as well. Ask someone who grew up on a farm in the 50's how much their family was willing to spend on pets or if the pets shared a house with them and you would find that their attitudes were a lot more like those of your Caribbean family than of many modern American families. I wouldn't surprised, though if the Caribbean families would be gradually getting closer to the American model as they too are exposed to more extensive vet care and ditto for Mexican middle class families.
Not all of us though are yet falling for the most intensive treatments for dogs and cats at the end of life. Personally I want to barf anytime I meet anyone who calls me a "pet parent."
Not all of us though are yet falling for the most intensive treatments for dogs and cats at the end of life. Personally I want to barf anytime I meet anyone who calls me a "pet parent."
Perhaps pet ownership comes with the same responsibilities as old age: speaking with family about end-of-life wishes before the end is near. My mom had "the conversation" with us before she died of colon cancer at 50. She successfully avoided many uncomfortable, futile but "heroic" (and expensive!) end-of-life measures to die at home, in peace, surrounded by loved ones. I cannot have this conversation with my dog or chickens but have a plan with my family members around the measures we will take when they do grow old. Without comparing my mom to my chickens, a similar understanding of their needs versus my desires as well as a rational cost consideration is paramount well before an emotionally-taxing illness.
10
In the past I used to buy my vaccines and give them to our dogs when due. After veterinarians pushed to change the law I am not longer permitted to give my dogs rabies vaccine. In order to get one I have to take my dog to the vet where they insist on doing a wellness exam before the injection. It costs three times what it used to cost me when I did it myself. Infuriating!
5
I am permitted to buy and administer rabies (and other) vaccines to my livestock, and nothing prevents me from dosing my dog with the extra (exact same vaccine for equines, canines, and felines). But if my dog bites someone, I have no proof of her vaccination status, and may still be required to let her be euthanized so her brain tissue can be analyzed for rabies.
Some vets do vaccine-only mobile rabies clinics (my area Tractor Supply also offers monthly clinics), and some cities have low-cost vet services such as the amazing Angels of Assisi clinic in SW Virginia. Call your local health department or animal control office to see if they know of one. They have a vested interest in keeping rabies outbreaks down.
Some vets do vaccine-only mobile rabies clinics (my area Tractor Supply also offers monthly clinics), and some cities have low-cost vet services such as the amazing Angels of Assisi clinic in SW Virginia. Call your local health department or animal control office to see if they know of one. They have a vested interest in keeping rabies outbreaks down.
3
Given the fact that pets and other domestic animals are often much easier and more pleasant to deal with than humans, it is surprising that the total expense on pets' health care is only 1/200 of the human health costs. Perhaps this fraction would be higher if horses, cows, sheep, and goats were included, but the friendly quadruped mammals would still be medically under-cared.
6
Would an outdoor pet be in a higher risk pool?
1
Definitely. Heartworm disease is caused by mosquito bites. Monthly heartworm preventative is around $12. The treatment for heartworm disease is around $500 and often hard on the animal.
Then there are possible illnesses and injuries acquired from urban wildlife.
Then there are possible illnesses and injuries acquired from urban wildlife.
5
I had a cat with a chronic viral illness and at one point took him to the young vet who had taken over from the previous vet, a guy who had grown up on a farm and loved animals. Whereas he, in treating an earlier cat, had warned me after some basic tests that further ones would be very expensive and probably would not yield much, his successor twisted herself into a pretzel trying to find additional tests and treatments even though she continued to contradict herself, saying that the cat's immune system was too fragile for them. I just took him home and treated him with brewer's yeast and rest (he lived on for many years). She had her office staff call me twice to schedule further appointments before giving up. It seemed pretty clear to me that her chief aim was generating revenue for herself.
9
My husband and I have often wished that we could find physicians that are as good as the veterinarians we have encountered. We have had pets for over fifty years. The veterinarians have always been upfront about the cost of treatment, the probability of its being successful, and they have suggested euthanasia when the quality of life was so low that there was no joy in living and there was no prospect of it being improved.
36
Almost exactly a year ago, one of my cats developed congestive heart failure. as it was Sunday, I had no choice but to take him to an emergency vet, who explained the diagnosis. I asked the vet very specifically if he could make my cat comfortable, as due to the swiftness with which this happened, I was naturally upset, and hoped to have one or two days to say goodbye. If he had told me there was no hope, I would have put the cat down then and there. But the vet assured me that he could alleviate his acute symptoms. Yet when I went to pick up my cat 8 hours later, he was in worse shape then when I had brought him in. The bill was almost $900. I spent the next night listening to my pet struggle to breathe, and due to my work schedule wasn't able to bring him to my regular vet to put him down until 5 p.m. the next day ($250). It was horrifying.
I know there are some very caring people who go into veterinary medicine, but I firmly believe there are others who go into it solely for the money, and are happy to waste time on useless procedures in order to profit themselves and their practices. It is to their benefit to raise prices and perform questionable procedures as far as the market allows, profiteering from suffering, as seems to be common in the human pharmaceutical and medical testing Industries.
When another of my cats needed dental work some years ago, I called 5 different vets and got quotes ranging from $750 to $2,000 for the same procedure. Disgraceful.
I know there are some very caring people who go into veterinary medicine, but I firmly believe there are others who go into it solely for the money, and are happy to waste time on useless procedures in order to profit themselves and their practices. It is to their benefit to raise prices and perform questionable procedures as far as the market allows, profiteering from suffering, as seems to be common in the human pharmaceutical and medical testing Industries.
When another of my cats needed dental work some years ago, I called 5 different vets and got quotes ranging from $750 to $2,000 for the same procedure. Disgraceful.
16
Why is it disgraceful for them to charge what the market will bear, just as accountants, lawyers, dentists, merchants, hair stylists, grocery stores, etc. do? There's no reason the veterinary profession should be tied to uniform pricing any more than any other enterprise.
1
If it's OK to charge what the market will bear, no problem. But there's much less of a free market when customers don't understand the product and are emotionally involved. Doctors and Veterinarians are assumed to care about their patients so the thought that you should "take it or leave it" is jarring. Pharma Boy Shkreli is an extreme case.
2
There need to be more veterinarians trained in dental specialties. These vets need to start charities for reduced costs of dental care. I only know of one such 501c3 non-profit group raising funds for pet dental care. It's called the Pet Tooth Fairy Project in San Diego CA. Financially qualified clients can ask for assistance for their pet. However, funds need to be raised to support the charity.
2
I'd like to pass on one piece of advice for low and middle income readers: call your local humane societies and no-kill shelters. Many have very affordable spay/neuter programs and vaccination clinics that charge a fraction of the rate your veterinarian will charge. Our local no-kill shelter charges middle income families $50 to neuter a cat; our vet wanted $200.
15
For one of my previous pets, I would get vaccinations done at our local pet supply store. Once a month, a veterinarian would spend the day in the store doing vaccinations. It was a relatively inexpensive way to get the necessary vaccinations.
My current dog came from a shelter which had already neutered him. The shelter has a veterinary practice so I now bring my dog there for his yearly checkup. To me, it is a way to support a shelter that is a safe have to abandoned animals.
My current dog came from a shelter which had already neutered him. The shelter has a veterinary practice so I now bring my dog there for his yearly checkup. To me, it is a way to support a shelter that is a safe have to abandoned animals.
13
I take my cat to a low cost clinic near my home. Everyone working there is genuinely dedicated to helping cats, just a low cost. I make sure do make a nice donation every year to help those less fortunate with cats and to make sure this facility with caring providers stays open.
10
Const and MP - you both make good points. MP - in addition to donating, shelters also need volunteers. Our no-kill shelter relies on volunteers to do things like clean the cat rooms, walk the dogs, and socialize the animals.
Const - in addition to saving a life, adopting from a shelter saves money too. We adopted a neutered, fully vaccinated kitten from a shelter for $60, and adopted a second kitten from a neighbor giving away free kittens. After vaccinations and neutering, the "free" kitten cost far more than the shelter kitty!
Const - in addition to saving a life, adopting from a shelter saves money too. We adopted a neutered, fully vaccinated kitten from a shelter for $60, and adopted a second kitten from a neighbor giving away free kittens. After vaccinations and neutering, the "free" kitten cost far more than the shelter kitty!
1
I had understood that many years ago, vets conducted a large nationwide poll that demonstrated that people would pay considerably more for pet care than previously believed. And that vet costs rose soon after. That doesn't negate the "emotions are ... driver higher spending" aspect of this article, but it does illustrate that health care costs are not based in reality. And since people are rarely in the position to "shop around" for their own health care and these high costs are a detriment to both our health and economy, it also clearly demonstrates the need for controlling health care costs.
3
Whomever wrote this article did not write it from New York City -- a few hundred dollars a year? My rescue dog was relatively healthy until the end of his life and I still ended up paying at least two thousand a year on well care, tests, visits due to chocolate consumption, etc. I paid right up until he was seven, stopped eating, and I was told he had cancer of the spleen. There were options to extend his life a month, three months. I realized that those weeks would be for me, not him. He looked to me to take care of him, and I was never going to let him suffer in any way if I could help it. A week later we said goodbye at the vets office, and I slept soundly that night. Further treatment was so tempting, but I took strength from those I spoke with who had done further treatment and regretted it. To those people I say, please don't feel too bad -- sharing your experience helped save other dogs from pain, and I am very grateful.
37
We just had our wonderful border collie/Lab go through hermangiosarcoma- cancer of spleen and liver. We spent all we had on our credit card- but we don't care. We decided it's only money. And it is only money. Her surgery went well, we had her for another 2 months- and would have never traded that time for any amount of money.
4
I totally agree with you. I have concluded that there are pet people and there are other people. These other people will just never get why we care about pets. It is their loss that they will never experience pet joy. Until 10 years ago I was one of the others, until my first dog. I spend more than $10,000 on lymphoma chemo treatment for my dog, and he had almost another year of high quality time. I am fortunate that I have worked hard in my education and career to be able to afford have the income to spend on my dogs, but only if after consulting with my vet, that is will be in the best interest of my dog in my personal judgement. Sometimes further treatment is a good decision, sometimes it is not. Sometimes we only finally know which was the best decision in retrospect. The overriding guiding principle is that the pet should not suffer through any illness. even for what we humans would regard as a rather short time.In these instances euthanasia is the only option. This was definitely the mindset of all the vets I encountered during my dogs treatment at Ohio State.
2
Cynthia --
Like Shelby, you are obviously a loving pet owner. There is more than one reasonable way to make an end-of-life care decision. Let's not judge each other.
Like Shelby, you are obviously a loving pet owner. There is more than one reasonable way to make an end-of-life care decision. Let's not judge each other.
4
To suggest that insurance is to protect against financial loss, not make money, is naive. The only reason insurance exists is to make money for the insurer. It is purchased to limit financial losses, but it is sold exclusively for the insurer to make money.
34
Right, because what comes between the insurer and the insured is actuarial experience and the time value of money. Insurance works with pooled risk - the actuarial experience - and the investment premium not paid out in claims that generally rises over time - the time value of money.
It's seems to be a concept that eludes everyone causing many to think that all insurance is a Ponzi Scheme.
It's seems to be a concept that eludes everyone causing many to think that all insurance is a Ponzi Scheme.
I think you misunderstood.Of course insurers are in the insurance business to make money.It's a business. It is the insured who is supposed to be protected against financial loss.
Once, I told my kitties and there were quite a few-- if you get sick, you are going to kitty heaven. The procedures, etc take a toll on the pet and you. Remember, your pet cannot say-- this is going nowhere, I don't want to continue. YOU make the decision. And you are the one doing the cleaning, transporting, watching as your dear pet declines. Can you take the heartache? Even if you have all the money in the world. There comes a time to say 'good-bye, wait for me at the Rainbow Bridge'.
36
My pet required intensive antibotic treatment or would have died. I was grateful for the care, but appalled at the cost of the antibiotics. These were the same antibotics that could be obtained as very inexpensive generics for humans (and are often fed to livestock), but were astronomically expensive for pets. The pharma company simply rebranded for pets and raised the price tenfold.
34
Have your vet write a prescription that you can take to an inexpensive drugstore.
Here, it's buying from the vet's office that's so expensive.
Here, it's buying from the vet's office that's so expensive.
4
It seems a bit ironic to charge more for medicines and procedures for dogs, given how many medicines and procedures were probably perfected on beagles.
2
That's your fault. If a generic exists of the same medicine, your vet is required by law to give you a prescription you can take to a local pharmacy. I did this for years before Enalapril was available in a generic firm. I also learned that the best price was for the 10mg size and bought a pill cutter to turn it into 2.5 mg.
2
This article felt really disjointed. It started out trying to correlate healthcare costs between humans and pets. At the end, it sounded like a discussion of whether it is worth buying pet insurance.
With regard to healthcare spending, one of my biggest complaints is that for humans, cost is seldom part of the discussion. In the past, when I took my dog to the vet who provides off hours emergency care, the first thing I got before my dog was seen is a list of what the charges will be for the examination. Once the vet did the exam, I was told an x-ray was needed and again what the cost would be.
Dentists and veterinarians have no problem telling you how much their services cost, why can't medical doctors do the same?
With regard to healthcare spending, one of my biggest complaints is that for humans, cost is seldom part of the discussion. In the past, when I took my dog to the vet who provides off hours emergency care, the first thing I got before my dog was seen is a list of what the charges will be for the examination. Once the vet did the exam, I was told an x-ray was needed and again what the cost would be.
Dentists and veterinarians have no problem telling you how much their services cost, why can't medical doctors do the same?
69
Because we don't know how much things cost. Different insurances pay different amounts, and there are many different plans with each insurance.
3
I disagree. Last year, I had an Empire Blue Cross plan which required me to pay out of pocket for visits until I reached my $1,500 deductible. A week after visiting the doctor, the bill came in the mail with what I owed. They didn't just figure out the cost after I left the office.
As a consumer, I should be able to easily shop around for non-emergency medical services. If I need an endoscopy, I should be told up front what the charges will be for the facility, gastroenterologist and anesthesiologist based on the insurance that I have. Now that many of us are in high deductible health plans, being able to price shop is one way to get costs down.
As a consumer, I should be able to easily shop around for non-emergency medical services. If I need an endoscopy, I should be told up front what the charges will be for the facility, gastroenterologist and anesthesiologist based on the insurance that I have. Now that many of us are in high deductible health plans, being able to price shop is one way to get costs down.
14
Insurance has nothing to do with cost. How much does and aortic valve replacement cost? Simple enough. How much they BILL, and to WHOM, is a different story. An enormous scam!
The difference is the US Government pays for a huge chunk of HC spending through Medicare and Medicaid. What happens to the US equation if that money came out - if we as consumers had to pay for all of our healthcare? Prices would drop.
7
I'm not sure prices would drop. I rather think people wouldn't get treated. Countries that have national healthcare negotiate with doctors and pharma to keep prices in check. We could use Medicare for all in this country and then negotiate favorable rates with the medical/pharma conglomerates.
37
In which case the better, more experience doctors would opt out of accepting Medicare.Oh,wait.That's already happening.
The comparison does not hold up when one thinks about self-induced health problems such as addiction to alcohol and opioids. Do pets drive cars too fast; do they refuse to wear seat belts? Do pets ignore exercise in favor of screen time? Yes, pets may have an obesity problem but that is probably due to owners who overfeed and under-exercise them. As long as the health status of most Americans remains poor, health care costs will remain high.
4
This article ignores one of the main distinctions between veterinary and human health care costs: veterinary care is MUCH cheaper. Owners complain about getting a bill for several thousand dollars for an emergency surgery for their pet after the pet swallows something, but how much is emergency surgery for a human? Several tens of thousands of dollars, probably. Human doctors also make 2-3 times what a comparably trained veterinarian makes.
Human medicine should learn from veterinary medicine about cost effectiveness and putting patients before profits.
Human medicine should learn from veterinary medicine about cost effectiveness and putting patients before profits.
12
Medical training is usually much longer. Minimum 4 years med school and three years residency just for primary care. Malpractice costs are much higher, too. It is crazy, cases where the doctor did everything right, but the lawyers find a way to get payouts in the tens of millions. Even lawsuits that are eventually dropped are very costly. They last in the court system for years before they get dropped, think of all those lawyer fees. Ultimately, patients end up paying for those costs.
4
As an addendum, it is worth noting that US trained veterinary specialists usually have completed 4 years undergraduate, 4 years graduate (DVM/VMD), one year revolving internship, and 3 years residency prior to board certification by examination, and publication of veterinary medical research papers. Some of us also have additional graduate degrees (MS, PhD). Veterinary generalists have also completed undergraduate and veterinary medical doctoral programs, and can become board certified as an advanced practitioner. All of us must maintain licensure (by examination initially, with practicum in some states), and specialty board certification through continuing education, publication, and other routes depending on the specialty college and state in the US. This is also mostly the case for US physician generalists and specialists, with subspecialists taking extra years of training. There really is not a short cut for professional credentialing, and the cost of equipment ans supplies is similar for some, but not all, items across categories for human and veterinary medicine.
4
I inherited a ten year old cat, and took him to the "cat specialist" for a checkup. In the waiting room, people were talking to the cats in their carriers; one woman had her elderly cat tucked inside her mink coat.
The vet came out with his assistant, and in front of everyone solemnly told me that Mr. Ben had a heart murmur, which would require $5000.00 of open heart surgery.
I asked him if he realized how many new cats I could buy for that much. The audience gasped. Mr Ben lived to be almost 20.
However, the pair of pugs I now have seem to be specifically bred over many generations to have every canine problem that exists, and are always at the vet having tune ups.
Thankful for pet insurance.
The vet came out with his assistant, and in front of everyone solemnly told me that Mr. Ben had a heart murmur, which would require $5000.00 of open heart surgery.
I asked him if he realized how many new cats I could buy for that much. The audience gasped. Mr Ben lived to be almost 20.
However, the pair of pugs I now have seem to be specifically bred over many generations to have every canine problem that exists, and are always at the vet having tune ups.
Thankful for pet insurance.
10
I highly doubt that you were told your cat needed open heart surgery for a heart murmur. This just isn't done, ever.
4
Any squished - nosed breed is a recurring paycheck for your vet. Canines evolved with long noses for good reasons.
We are overpopulated and we have too many pets. We need to slow down our breeding, as well as that of our pets so that all species and their habitats can live.
Invest in caring for nature before it goes away.
Invest in caring for nature before it goes away.
10
fix your pets, get a pet from a shelter
14
I got pet insurance after I got a $2500 emergency vet bill for my cat who swallowed an embroidery needle. The insurance considers swallowing foreign objects a pre-existing condition, so if she does it again, I'm out of pocket again. Sounds like human insurance before the Affordable Care Act, doesn't it?
32
A theory to look into: US high spending on health care is due to the US compensation offers higher premium for expertise than other nations.
Others have noted that although our doctors are paid at a higher rate relative to the average wage than in other countries; this is not the case if the comparison is against other highly trained professionals.
Others have noted that although our doctors are paid at a higher rate relative to the average wage than in other countries; this is not the case if the comparison is against other highly trained professionals.
1
"Though routine veterinary visits might cost pet owners only a couple of hundred dollars per year"
That might not be true: The vets I encounter in NYC and in even in suburban Southern New England will cost you **at least** $500 a year per pet. 1k is not impossible per pet per year, if you go for all of the preventive care options the vet presents to you. And pet surgeries are in the thousands.
At that point the "math" for Pet Insurance starts to look different than the article writer suggests.
That might not be true: The vets I encounter in NYC and in even in suburban Southern New England will cost you **at least** $500 a year per pet. 1k is not impossible per pet per year, if you go for all of the preventive care options the vet presents to you. And pet surgeries are in the thousands.
At that point the "math" for Pet Insurance starts to look different than the article writer suggests.
3
$500 a year works out to $42 a month. What do you spend at Starbucks?
2
"sleppy" you misread my comment. It isnt the money spent that concerns me at all -- it is the bogus "stat data" referenced by the article. Sigh.
1
Five-hundred dollars a year per pet for veterinary care? That sounds high -- and I live in New York City. Of course, if a pet has health problems, and you have to purchase insulin, or hydration equipment, or anti-seizure pills, then of course $500 is par for the course. But just for a wellness visit and vaccinations? Hardly. How about $132 for a check-up and rabies and other shots?
I have no complaint about vets, like them in fact, so don't take this wrongly. In my experience with owning pets over decades, the single most significant change I've seen is in the marketing of pet care. Today, a simple visit to the vet invites recommendations for all manner of expensive treatments that didn't exist or weren't pitched very often twenty years ago. Teeth cleaning ($700), leukemia tests ($80) and other expensive procedures are suggested by the vet staff to pet owners who are emotionally attached to their animals. There is nothing wrong about this; it just is what it is. Plus, when a friend or a neighbor agrees to an expensive pet procedure, it influences others and in no time, a social expectation is born. Over time, we got to where we are today: otherwise rational and budget- minded people agreeing to a $4000 procedure for a 13-year-old poodle. That's effective marketing. Does it happen on the human side too? I believe so. It isn't particularly remarkable, though - the same thing happens with any product or service for which demand can be created or grown by savvy marketing.
50
Your vet charges $700 for teeth cleaning? Mine charges $110. And, he's told me my dog doesn't need it because I brush his teeth frequently with an enzymatic toothpaste.
4
Yes, unfortunately the veterinary profession has developed numerous marketing campaigns over the years that simply aren't in the pet's best health interest. For example, annual vaccinations (as encouraged in the past) have lead to increased cancer rates. Titering an animal to test for resistance to a specific disease (vs annual vaccinations) is more expensive than the vaccines. Heartworm preventatives and flea and tick preventatives are overused and also contribute to more disease.
I'd hate to be a novice pet owner in this day and age. Sitting in the vet's waiting room seems like one long guilt trip. Common sense and knowing how to ask the right questions can save a pet owner a lot of money.
I'd hate to be a novice pet owner in this day and age. Sitting in the vet's waiting room seems like one long guilt trip. Common sense and knowing how to ask the right questions can save a pet owner a lot of money.
2
My dog began to have deposits on his teeth. Our veterinarian suggested that we add raw carrots to his diet. He enjoys eating carrots, the deposits disappeared and I am quite sure that he would have found having his teeth cleaned very traumatic.
4
So we spend the equivalent of Cambodia's entire GDP on our pets' healthcare. This article interests me because I have long said that the only way to bring market forces into healthcare spending is through the free market. That means getting rid of health insurance period. No employer based health insurance. No single payer. No Medicare. People write checks for their treatment. Cost of everything would come down by about 90-95%. People are clearly able to write large checks for their ferrets and iguanas. Certainly they could squirrel away a few thousand for an operation on a human being. Epipens would cost $10 if people were paying cash. Cancer meds and HIV meds would be a fraction of what big pharma charges right now. The 3rd party payer system will implode eventually. $15 trillion debt loads are not irrelevant.
1
free market also implies allowing people to die in front of you on the street, or be brought to the county pound "to be put to sleep". Are you ready for that?
41
"Certainly they could squirrel away a few thousand for an operation on a human being." Huh? Perhaps that's possible for you and other affluence people, but a lot of us are making just enough to get by.
6
Do you realize how many tens and hundreds of thousands that certain procedures and long-term drugs can cost??
I believe medical emergencies (at least in recent history ) were/are the #1 cause of bankruptcies in the U.S.
I believe medical emergencies (at least in recent history ) were/are the #1 cause of bankruptcies in the U.S.
I have three rescue dogs all of whom have health insurance. I live in an area where excellent veterinary services are available and have used the same internal medicine specialist for years. The cost of each visit is high as almost anything complicated, and dogs who were not properly fed or treated in their early years usually get complicated things, requires expensive diagnostic procedures. Prior to insurance I still chose the expensive procedures but this makes it must easier to handle. I did read the Consumer Reports study but my experience has not been consistent with their conclusion. In the past two years my insurance company has returned more than the premiums every single month. Last year alone they paid 30 claims. The cost of insurance is minor compared to the agony of having to euthanize a treatable animal. Having pet insurance allows the medical decisions to be made on the basis of the best interests of the animal not the impact on one's finances.
20
I reject any useful comparisons between human and pet health care delivery even if some of us elevate our pets to human status.
Health savings accounts are an adjunct to covering health care expenses but there is no way to know to what extent those savings will begin to cover a major illness or a new, life saving drug. The real answer is the mandatory deduction for health insurance we all pay for Medicare. Increase it if need be to accommodate more individuals but there is nothing available among private health insurance models that compares with Medicare. And I am referring to traditional Medicare (Parts A, B, D and optional supplemental insurance), not Medicare Advantage (Part C). But even Part C is better than the ACA, let along anything Republicans come up with.
Health savings accounts are an adjunct to covering health care expenses but there is no way to know to what extent those savings will begin to cover a major illness or a new, life saving drug. The real answer is the mandatory deduction for health insurance we all pay for Medicare. Increase it if need be to accommodate more individuals but there is nothing available among private health insurance models that compares with Medicare. And I am referring to traditional Medicare (Parts A, B, D and optional supplemental insurance), not Medicare Advantage (Part C). But even Part C is better than the ACA, let along anything Republicans come up with.
7
Yes but Medicare is for older people? How can you compare private health insurance to a government subsidy only available to those 67 and older?
2
Medicare is not a government subsidy, but is paid for by earnings deductions. Plus, one is eligible at 65, not 67.
13
Manny - Isn't that the sad fact? Traditional Medicare-style coverage should be what every citizen has a right to and has access to but we ALL must contribute to it, just as we do now (it's 1.45% of the FICA tax rate). What I contend is that it should be available to all ages. Just think about it. If you are 65 years old, you will have many more health problems than if you are 25 but you will have been paying into the program for 40 years, not just one year.
3
I prefer a shamanistic approach to both human and animal health. A vigorous dance around the patient while wearing a chicken bone necklace and blowing on a ram’s horn is just as effective as most modern treatments, and is more humane and a lot cheaper than modern medicine. The whole business of medicine has never worked very well although every age thinks their state of the art leeches, bleeding, potions and poultices, and surgery are effective. However, somewhere down deep we all know those things don’t work. Medicine is more like a religion than a science. We hope our feeble attempts to achieve comfort and immortality will work and are willing to pay handsomely for them, but down deep we know they won’t. Throughout the ages people have had a longer life expectancy if they avoided Doctors than if they consulted one, but fear and guilt for not doing every thing we can for ourselves and our loved ones still makes the Doctors and Veterinarians rich.
3
To claim that veterinarians are getting "rich" off their profession is a fallacy that needs to be corrected. As is the case in human medicine there are specialists in veterinary medicine where practitioners can make a good income but most veterinarians who practice in clinics seeing patients - the equivalent of a general/family practitioner in human medicine - make very modest incomes considering their extensive training and those incomes have been relatively flat despite the ever-increasing costs of attending veterinary school. What you have in veterinary medicine and human medicine these days are increasing numbers of new physicians & veterinarians entering their professions saddled with hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loans. The perception that these new physicians & veterinarians are ever going to be "rich" is laughable. As a side note, all the people I know who are veterinarians entered the profession to help ensure the health & welfare of animals, not with the aim of getting rich.
57
Dear Liam, you evidently don't have an incurable cancer like Multiple Myeloma. I take expensive heavy medications to stay alive. It is a treatable cancer, but very quickly kills if left untreated. Consider that please. I do sincerely hope you never walk this road, stay well.
6
In the unfortunate event that you are the victim of trauma, I do hope the emergency medical personnel who respond dance and blow the horn well. I know I want the folks who know how to resuscitate using c-spine stabilization, intravenous fluids, and intubation/ventilation as indicated.
5
We paid $600 for a diagnosis when our dog had repeated episodes of nasal hemmoraghes. The diagnosis included an estimate that $5000 of radiotherapy could extend life for a year. (No Quality-Adjusted info.) Euthenasia was the better option.
A person with insurance can get an estimate of cost per QALY and not have OOP costs.
A person with insurance can get an estimate of cost per QALY and not have OOP costs.
3
We will one day have to grapple with the very difficult question whether it be for pets or family members (some people, I know, see these as the same thing); what is another day, week, month or year of life worth?
6
Do you mean that you want to "put Nana down" if she breaks a hip?
2
No. It means that it is not worth paying $300,000 for a drug that might extend Nana's life by six weeks.
19
I agree. Many people would consider euthanasia if it were legal and readily available. I would want what my beloved dog is legally allowed to have when his body fails.
19
I wish doctors communicated with me as well as the vets generally do: the vets actually talk to me about what my pet's problem might be, what tests are recommended and why, AND how much these tests cost. They will also answer questions about what treatments or procedures might follow each diagnosis, how much they might cost, and include what quality of life might result for both the pet and me. The decision on how to proceed is truly a shared or consensus treatment. That's one enormous difference right there.
158
Interesting comment
Most physicians want to spend more time with their patients but the economics of insurance payments, government Medicare and Medicaid payments, malpractice, and all the other every increasing costs of running a business with decreasing reimbursement make this fiscally difficult or impossible. Vets on the other hand ONLY provide services if payment is made in full- not a lower negotiated rate. I think if you entered a concierge medical practice in human medicine you would get the attention you are looking for. However, most people in this country would rather have their nails done every 2 weeks, get a new phone annually, have an expensive car, house, or vacation that they really can't afford, or spend $100 per week on alcohol or cigarettes than pay extra for health care.
As the CEO of The Cleveland Clinic recently pointed out- 60% of their patients are Medicaid or Medicare and the Cleveland Clinic (like physicians) lose money on all of these patients. So, things are likely gonna get worse. You will get even less time with your physician or you won't ever see a physician. Medicine is being downgraded everywhere with lesser trained providers. Nurse practitioners, physician assistants, midwives etc... Finally, the best and brightest are smart enough to realize that they shouldn't enter medicine anymore.
Think about that the next time you are sick.
Most physicians want to spend more time with their patients but the economics of insurance payments, government Medicare and Medicaid payments, malpractice, and all the other every increasing costs of running a business with decreasing reimbursement make this fiscally difficult or impossible. Vets on the other hand ONLY provide services if payment is made in full- not a lower negotiated rate. I think if you entered a concierge medical practice in human medicine you would get the attention you are looking for. However, most people in this country would rather have their nails done every 2 weeks, get a new phone annually, have an expensive car, house, or vacation that they really can't afford, or spend $100 per week on alcohol or cigarettes than pay extra for health care.
As the CEO of The Cleveland Clinic recently pointed out- 60% of their patients are Medicaid or Medicare and the Cleveland Clinic (like physicians) lose money on all of these patients. So, things are likely gonna get worse. You will get even less time with your physician or you won't ever see a physician. Medicine is being downgraded everywhere with lesser trained providers. Nurse practitioners, physician assistants, midwives etc... Finally, the best and brightest are smart enough to realize that they shouldn't enter medicine anymore.
Think about that the next time you are sick.
1
I remember telling our financial planner that we would need $15,000 to $20,000 per year to pay for health care for our companion animals. At that time we cared for a dog who required monthly shots for Addison's disease, a cat who required daily insulin shots and other elderly cats who required supplements including B12 injections and special diets. Each of our companion animals needed at least two vet visits per year to check blood, weight and complications from their chronic diseases which can be costly. We had knowingly adopted animals with specials needs and limited our personal spending in other areas to accommodate their needs.
I was an adoption counselor for many years for companion animals and made sure people understood the costs of caring for the animals for whom they took responsibility. Puppies, kittens and exotic animals are expensive.
One advantage vets have over human doctors is they usually post the costs of standard procedures. Estimates for routine and emergency procedures are signed prior to giving care so no one is surprised.
It is a hard to know there is technology that could save the life of a loved one (human or animal) but at a cost too high to afford. (Millions of people face that for their own health care) Unlike our human relatives, we rarely allow our animals to exist in vegetative states for months or demand rehab beyond what it possible. Animals too ill or injured to live are allowed euthanasia; humans are required to exist.
I was an adoption counselor for many years for companion animals and made sure people understood the costs of caring for the animals for whom they took responsibility. Puppies, kittens and exotic animals are expensive.
One advantage vets have over human doctors is they usually post the costs of standard procedures. Estimates for routine and emergency procedures are signed prior to giving care so no one is surprised.
It is a hard to know there is technology that could save the life of a loved one (human or animal) but at a cost too high to afford. (Millions of people face that for their own health care) Unlike our human relatives, we rarely allow our animals to exist in vegetative states for months or demand rehab beyond what it possible. Animals too ill or injured to live are allowed euthanasia; humans are required to exist.
69
In dealing with our much beloved canines' end-of-life care issues, we have resolved to be driven by what's in the best interest of each dog, as we have wit to comprehend it. There's a huge difference between keeping your pet alive for you, or for him-or-her.
The result is deep and inevitable sadness at their passing, which is as it should be. It's the price of caring, and well worth it. But it's not regret at an exit made too soon in the interest of convenience, or too late -- causing needless suffering to forestall our grief.
If/as/when I am placed by fate in their position, I hope that those who love me will be similarly solicitous of my best interests. I have reason to trust them, and no desire for a meaningless extension of my husk.
As human law and medicine evolve to the point where we can treat our human loved ones as well as those of other species, I believe we'll all be much better-off -- ethically first, and financially, too.
The result is deep and inevitable sadness at their passing, which is as it should be. It's the price of caring, and well worth it. But it's not regret at an exit made too soon in the interest of convenience, or too late -- causing needless suffering to forestall our grief.
If/as/when I am placed by fate in their position, I hope that those who love me will be similarly solicitous of my best interests. I have reason to trust them, and no desire for a meaningless extension of my husk.
As human law and medicine evolve to the point where we can treat our human loved ones as well as those of other species, I believe we'll all be much better-off -- ethically first, and financially, too.
73
Better to end it a day too early than a day too late.
48
Better to end it a month too early than a day too late.
I learned this two dogs ago. The day too late was awful and very painful for him.
I learned this two dogs ago. The day too late was awful and very painful for him.
4
I disagree totally. My vet gas always said one knows it's time when one realizes they should gave put the animal down yesterday. No on ever wants to later feel the guilt test they gave up on the pet too soon.
Here's a major difference between vet care and human care in the linked graph
http://tinyurl.com/ztpqg4h
http://tinyurl.com/ztpqg4h
18
A mere upvote cannot express the value of your post. Thank you.
3
Says it all really, in an easy to understand format. Thanks.
1
The "experts" who put that chart together are NOT PhDs in economics. Their "research" and "experts" were derided in "The Atlantic."
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2010/02/a-little-more-about-...
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2010/02/a-little-more-about-...
1
I can choose to end my pet's life in a humane way. I can't choose that for myself. That has to have a huge influence on money that is spent on pet care.
132
Yes you can choose it for yourself.
A difference would be that it is easier to control end-of-life expenses for pets by putting them to sleep, which is done earlier than for humans.
27
"Though routine veterinary visits might cost pet owners only a couple of hundred dollars per year, a serious condition can be very expensive. A dog’s kidney transplant can run $25,000, and a cat’s cancer treatment can cost $10,000 or more. Even if such high costs are extremely rare, it is not as uncommon for a pet owner to encounter a $2,000 to $4,000 bill at some point, particularly near the end of a pet’s life."
Interesting article, however, some aspects are completely off the grid where I live. There isn't a vet in my city that charges less than $60 for an office visit before even seeing a vet because office visits have skyrocketed in the past decade. Then there's the cost of annual vaccinations, blood work and other various preventative measures to ensure all is well with "Fluffy". God help the kind soul who has multiple cats or dogs for those annual costs become borderline cost-prohibitive.
Recently, our 11 yr. old sweet dog was diagnosed with cancer. We loved her deeply. The entire treatment protocol would have cost $35,000. We are in a position to spend that, however, after the first treatment, our dog passed away. We would have done anything to have saved him. However, we felt tremendous guilt that he suffered terribly from the side affects of the treatment. In retrospect, we firmly believe that at least with animals with potentially terminal cancer, it is best to let nature take its course and provide the best comfort possible until the end.
125
after i was persuaded to overtreat the first cat i had as an adult, only to realize that i had needlessly tortured him, i vowed never to do painful, lifesaving treatment on a cat over 15 or a dog over 10. my second cat (cancer) had a peaceful death, after palliative care. the vet came to our home to euthanize her, and she died on my bed.
33
As a small animal veterinarian, I was touched by your recent loss. Your sweet dog was lucky to have spent its life loved by your family.
We should, however, keep in mind that each type of cancer has a unique prognosis and response to treatment. Patients are also individuals with regards efficacy of treatments and side effects.
I wish you the best with any future pets that join your family.
We should, however, keep in mind that each type of cancer has a unique prognosis and response to treatment. Patients are also individuals with regards efficacy of treatments and side effects.
I wish you the best with any future pets that join your family.
13
I agree; I put my beloved cat through 3 rounds of chemotherapy and will never make the same decision again.
13
Veterinarians can choose higher dollar pet care or make little money on large animal care for farmers. It's almost like internists vs specialists. Those who want to pay off school loans are sure to choose small animal pet care. That's another interesting angle for the research.
5
It was recommended to us by the vet that our 17 year old cat be sent to a 24 hour animal hospital in a different neighborhood for IV treatment. He was always fearful at the vet. I asked what his chances were and his life would probably be prolonged by days and we would not be with him. He was not eating some days and had problems walking and getting into and out of the litter bix and to his favorite places. Instead, we kept him at home, had an extended family "last supper" where we gave him lots of loving and a few tastes of his favorite forbidden treats that he had not had in years. Then we arranged for a vet off the internet to come to our house the next morning and euthanize him as he cuddled in my arms. Sad, yes, but a life well lived and loved.
141
that is not the case. While small animal practitioners do make more money than large animal practitioners there is more inherent value in pets and a demand for higher quality of medicine. GP vets make no where near what specialists do. People's pets are family, large animals are food. A bullet is cheaper than a work-up and medical intervention for an animal that will ultimately end up as dinner.
3
Now I'm crying...
2