Jerry S writes:
"As far as the hacking, to me the fact that the Russians needed to react with ridicule only reaffirms that this is true."
Let's not give Jerry S too much credit here, since dozens of other commenters have made the same point: If you accuse someone of something and they deny the accusation and ridicule you for making it, you've established that the accusation is true! No actual evidence required.
"As far as the hacking, to me the fact that the Russians needed to react with ridicule only reaffirms that this is true."
Let's not give Jerry S too much credit here, since dozens of other commenters have made the same point: If you accuse someone of something and they deny the accusation and ridicule you for making it, you've established that the accusation is true! No actual evidence required.
2
Larry laments:
"Still waiting for actual evidence of Russian hacking."
Don't hold your breath.
The latest "explanation" for the lack of evidence reflects more imagination than most: Some Senators and House members have received the "classified" report and they have not formally objected to its findings. Therefore, the conclusions stated in that report must be correct and those conclusions must be supported by actual evidence. (Don't blame me for the "logic" -- I'm just explaining the argument here.)
"Still waiting for actual evidence of Russian hacking."
Don't hold your breath.
The latest "explanation" for the lack of evidence reflects more imagination than most: Some Senators and House members have received the "classified" report and they have not formally objected to its findings. Therefore, the conclusions stated in that report must be correct and those conclusions must be supported by actual evidence. (Don't blame me for the "logic" -- I'm just explaining the argument here.)
4
Darn right!
"Ridicule is confirmation."
In other words, if you accuse someone of something, and they deny it and ridicule you for having accused them, your accusation is thereby confirmed. After all, if they were innocent, they wouldn't deny what you're accusing them of.
I THINK I get this, but I'm not quite sure, and I'm humble. So if you're pretty sure you understand it, please feel free to explain it to the rest of us.
"Ridicule is confirmation."
In other words, if you accuse someone of something, and they deny it and ridicule you for having accused them, your accusation is thereby confirmed. After all, if they were innocent, they wouldn't deny what you're accusing them of.
I THINK I get this, but I'm not quite sure, and I'm humble. So if you're pretty sure you understand it, please feel free to explain it to the rest of us.
4
Another sad day for the Democrats: the suns sets and no mushroom clouds over Russia
2
Ridicule is confirmation. It's not likely that they would put up their hand and say "Okay, you found us out. Good job!" These people will continue to try and flim-flam whoever will believe them. And that, apparently, includes a lot of Trump supporters. As far as Trump himself goes, the Russians have read his fragile ego perfectly...he will not tolerate anything that says he didn't win his 48% of the vote all by himself.
First actions from trump will be the lifting of sanctions on Russia making way for that $500 Million Exxon joint venture
1
And another Hotel....
1
All this fuss about what the Russians may or may not have done, but let's assume they did hack and release the emails. The only damage they would have done then was to release the truth about the ugly behavior of Hillary and the DNC so we could see it. Where is the outrage over that? The whole Russian business, true or not, is a red herring to distract us from the unscrupulous Democrats' scurrilous behavior. Imagine the outrage if the Republicans had been caught behaving like Democrats.
8
Are you concern that they also hacked the RNC and the Trump Campaign but have not release?
3
Some have asked how, given unprecedented and confirmed Russian meddling, Trump can be prevented from assuming the presidency at this late date. The constitutional answer is that it's too late unless he's arrested and prevented from taking the oath of office. There was a small opening when the elector results were presented and then certified by congress last week. Before that, the electors had the right, and in fact a duty, to protect the country from a candidate who was under inappropriate or dangerous influence from a foreign government. It's too bad the siren call of tax cuts, deregulation, and a right wing SCOTUS were too strong to stir a modicum of patriotism. The same motivations will undoubtedly also prevent impeachment while in office, the final line of defense against a Trump presidency. Hopefully someone besides the Russians have the goods on Trump, or the FBI finds the gumption to investigate corruption or violations of the emoluments provision. Otherwise, lord help us.
2
Still waiting for actual evidence of Russian hacking. "One of Obama's appointees kinda thinks so" isn't evidence
8
@Larry. The declassified version of the intelligence report is available online. You won't see the classified version without the appropriate security clearance. Fortunately, if you're a US citizen you have a representative and senator who can review the full version. So far none of them seem to be doubting the report. Just its influence on the election, which predictably breaks down roughly along party lines.
It seems to me a collective 80,000 vote victory margin in three key swing states is dangerously if not ludicrously close to what tampering might have delivered from among swing voters and late deciders.
It seems to me a collective 80,000 vote victory margin in three key swing states is dangerously if not ludicrously close to what tampering might have delivered from among swing voters and late deciders.
3
Thanks to The NY Times for the Russian hack. The Times told everyone, including the Russians, that Hillary had a 95% chance of winning. Why waste time hacking Trump, a man with good cyber security and a 5% chance of winning?
5
Silly Americans, while you waste your time arguing amongst yourselves with your vituperativr comments casting blame from one party to another -- you allow your attention to be diverted from the matters that should concern you most.
And most shameful of all, you have made yourselves an easy conquest -- but are too pre-occupied to even recognize it.
Game over.
You've lost.
And most shameful of all, you have made yourselves an easy conquest -- but are too pre-occupied to even recognize it.
Game over.
You've lost.
5
"I want to know what it takes to deem a presidential election invalid."
Fortunately, we have not one but TWO answers to that question!
Answer 1: Read the US Constitution. It explains in great detail how we choose our Presidents -- elections, and that sort of thing. If you get all hung up on things like the US Constitution, Trump won.
Answer 2: A US Presidential election may be declared "invalid" if the candidate you wanted to win did not win. The attractiveness of this answer is that anyone can give it, and whoever gives it first gets to pick the President! Don't like Trump, for example, but like Hillary Clinton? Just declare her the winner! Don't like Hillary either but do like Gary Johnson or Jill Stein? Just say so, and declare him or her to be the winner.
The real appeal of Answer #2 is that you're not even limited to people who've actually run for President. After all, we're ignoring all the election silliness, so why should it matter whether someone's name was on the ballot? So if you favor Kim Kardashian for President, Kim it will be. The choice need not even be human -- your pet dog will do just fine, for example (though we'd all prefer that Fido have some foreign-policy experience, if possible).
Just let us know. Thanks!
Fortunately, we have not one but TWO answers to that question!
Answer 1: Read the US Constitution. It explains in great detail how we choose our Presidents -- elections, and that sort of thing. If you get all hung up on things like the US Constitution, Trump won.
Answer 2: A US Presidential election may be declared "invalid" if the candidate you wanted to win did not win. The attractiveness of this answer is that anyone can give it, and whoever gives it first gets to pick the President! Don't like Trump, for example, but like Hillary Clinton? Just declare her the winner! Don't like Hillary either but do like Gary Johnson or Jill Stein? Just say so, and declare him or her to be the winner.
The real appeal of Answer #2 is that you're not even limited to people who've actually run for President. After all, we're ignoring all the election silliness, so why should it matter whether someone's name was on the ballot? So if you favor Kim Kardashian for President, Kim it will be. The choice need not even be human -- your pet dog will do just fine, for example (though we'd all prefer that Fido have some foreign-policy experience, if possible).
Just let us know. Thanks!
6
Another commenter has it exactly right:
"I find the anti-Russia hysteria being whipped up quite remarkable."
Me too. I'd have never believed it would "work," and for so long, but obviously it has. I'll wager that Clinton herself is finding it a little hard to believe. I do give her credit for not fanning the flames, though it's gone on long enough, and successfully enough, that I'm beginning to think she has a moral obligation to say something to these people. It's getting a little out of hand, and she's probably the only one who can have much effect.
"I find the anti-Russia hysteria being whipped up quite remarkable."
Me too. I'd have never believed it would "work," and for so long, but obviously it has. I'll wager that Clinton herself is finding it a little hard to believe. I do give her credit for not fanning the flames, though it's gone on long enough, and successfully enough, that I'm beginning to think she has a moral obligation to say something to these people. It's getting a little out of hand, and she's probably the only one who can have much effect.
8
Given all me know now about the involvement of Russia to tilt the election in Trump's favor, shouldn't this nullify the election?
Why isn't anybody talking about this?
Why isn't anybody talking about this?
4
Absolutely!
What do you think we should do -- hold another election? Or should we just skip that formality and inaugurate Hillary Clinton? After all, if we disqualify Trump voters because they're all stupid, or Russian dupes, or both, surely Clinton would win! Why waste a bunch of taxpayer money on another election when we already know how it will turn out?
What do you think we should do -- hold another election? Or should we just skip that formality and inaugurate Hillary Clinton? After all, if we disqualify Trump voters because they're all stupid, or Russian dupes, or both, surely Clinton would win! Why waste a bunch of taxpayer money on another election when we already know how it will turn out?
5
How about seeing this for the serious issue it is, and make emergency measures to keep Predient Obama on for an extra year and re-do the election with new candidates?
"Does this mean Jill Stein and Gary Johnson are Russian agents and part of this elaborate Russian plan to elect Donald Trump?"
Johnson and Stein were in on it too? What about Al Gore and Dick Cheney? Paul Bremer? Haven't heard much about him lately, after all, and that silence is awfully suspicious.
I think we should accuse all three of them of helping Putin and Trump. If any of them denies it, we'll know they're guilty!
This plot gets more nefarious every time we hear about it. Could Bambi have been involved too? Mother Theresa?
Johnson and Stein were in on it too? What about Al Gore and Dick Cheney? Paul Bremer? Haven't heard much about him lately, after all, and that silence is awfully suspicious.
I think we should accuse all three of them of helping Putin and Trump. If any of them denies it, we'll know they're guilty!
This plot gets more nefarious every time we hear about it. Could Bambi have been involved too? Mother Theresa?
8
Obama and Hillary accused Trump of colluding with Russia, before the agencies published their report.
What does this putting the cart before the horse, reveal ?
That the democrats are less bothered about the hacking act itself, but more concerned that it influenced the election against them.
The only way for the democrats to redeem their credibility, is to put those corrupt old timers on that horse cart, and ride them out into the sunset.
What does this putting the cart before the horse, reveal ?
That the democrats are less bothered about the hacking act itself, but more concerned that it influenced the election against them.
The only way for the democrats to redeem their credibility, is to put those corrupt old timers on that horse cart, and ride them out into the sunset.
3
A Hillary supporter acknowledges:
"Yes, Donna Brazile told the Clinton camp [about a debate question in advance]..."
(For those who don't know, Donna Brazile was both a high-level DNC official and a CNN commentator. CNN fired her immediately when they found out what she'd been doing.)
Ms. Brazile's shenanigans obviously reflect poorly on her. We all get that. But Ms. Brazile's shenanigans also reflect poorly on Clinton. That's the more important point.
Clinton must have accepted Brazile's information, since knowing debate questions in advance wouldn't be useful unless an actual participant in the debate received the information. And Clinton, or her staffers, must have encouraged Brazile to pass on additional debate questions (which Brazile did, and bragged that she could get even more). Why else would Brazile have kept it up? If Clinton or her staff had told Brazile, up front: "Thanks, but no thanks. We appreciate your support, but we'd prefer not to learn the debate questions in advance." -- presumably Brazile would have stopped, right then and there. And Clinton's campaign staffers could have avoided the "damage" resulting even from Brazile's first debate-question disclosure by not passing that information on to Clinton. And if they had done that -- i.e. not passed it on to Clinton -- and made clear to Brazile that they hadn't passed it on and wouldn't be passing on anything else Brazile might come up with, would Brazile have continued to pass on debate questions?
"Yes, Donna Brazile told the Clinton camp [about a debate question in advance]..."
(For those who don't know, Donna Brazile was both a high-level DNC official and a CNN commentator. CNN fired her immediately when they found out what she'd been doing.)
Ms. Brazile's shenanigans obviously reflect poorly on her. We all get that. But Ms. Brazile's shenanigans also reflect poorly on Clinton. That's the more important point.
Clinton must have accepted Brazile's information, since knowing debate questions in advance wouldn't be useful unless an actual participant in the debate received the information. And Clinton, or her staffers, must have encouraged Brazile to pass on additional debate questions (which Brazile did, and bragged that she could get even more). Why else would Brazile have kept it up? If Clinton or her staff had told Brazile, up front: "Thanks, but no thanks. We appreciate your support, but we'd prefer not to learn the debate questions in advance." -- presumably Brazile would have stopped, right then and there. And Clinton's campaign staffers could have avoided the "damage" resulting even from Brazile's first debate-question disclosure by not passing that information on to Clinton. And if they had done that -- i.e. not passed it on to Clinton -- and made clear to Brazile that they hadn't passed it on and wouldn't be passing on anything else Brazile might come up with, would Brazile have continued to pass on debate questions?
6
@MyThreeCents. You forgot to mention that the question passed to the Clinton camp was reportedly about the Flint water crisis. Quite the insight there and I'm sure it propelled Hillary's debate performance. Too bad the Russians didn't manage to convert Trump from a dunce into someone knowledgeable about domestic and world affairs. Just a Putin puppet.
Also, this issue brings to mind the scene when an African American woman in Flint firmly chastised Donald Trump when he tried to score political points there and was forced to meekly leave the stage. Quite the courageous leader.
Also, this issue brings to mind the scene when an African American woman in Flint firmly chastised Donald Trump when he tried to score political points there and was forced to meekly leave the stage. Quite the courageous leader.
1
@MyThreeCents. Here's a more complete discussion of the Brazile question affair from the Washington Post. Her behavior was inappropriate and she deserved to be fired, but the impact on the debates, if any at all, was likely minuscule. If you can't answer questions intelligently about the Flint water crisis and the death penalty, you don't belong on a presidential debate stage.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/11/02/donna-bra...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/11/02/donna-bra...
2
"If you can't answer questions intelligently about the Flint water crisis and the death penalty, you don't belong on a presidential debate stage."
Do you think Donna Brazile, or Hillary Clinton, should have passed those questions on to Trump?
Do you think Donna Brazile, or Hillary Clinton, should have passed those questions on to Trump?
1
All this cry is just a public show of disrespect of American Democracy and American people. It suggests that American Democracy could be easily manipulated by "fake news" or even by inconvenient truth (after all, the leak revealed the truth). It suggests that Americans people are so stupid that will vote for the President who will intentionally harm interests of their country. And if Americans themselves don't see their system strong enough to survive, how could they expect other people to respect their system, the system that crumbles because of gossips and hidden truth?
5
Come to think of it why isn't Michigan's governor in prison over what he's done to the people of Flint?
Couldn't Obama have sent the Army Corps of Engineers to Flint to replace the water supply system on an emergency basis? Last I heard it's still toxic.
Couldn't Obama have sent the Army Corps of Engineers to Flint to replace the water supply system on an emergency basis? Last I heard it's still toxic.
3
How does this commenter know this, you might ask?
"Putin, as Russia’s chief crime boss, is the richest man in world."
Simple -- he just declares it! If anyone disagrees, that proves the allegation is true. After all, if it weren't true, why would anyone disagree?
I think I get it, but I'm not quite sure.
"Putin, as Russia’s chief crime boss, is the richest man in world."
Simple -- he just declares it! If anyone disagrees, that proves the allegation is true. After all, if it weren't true, why would anyone disagree?
I think I get it, but I'm not quite sure.
9
@MyThreeCents. Here's a reference. It's not hard to find. In fairness, his $200 billion net worth is just an estimate from the amount of wealth contained in Russia and generated by its economy vs the amount that disappears into the accounts of wealthy oligarchs, of which Putin is the leader. It is great for the international art and real estate market, and for lawyers and tax havens who facilitate the kleptocracy. Not so much for the Russian people. They get wars and propaganda. And it's coming soon to a democracy near you!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/02/20/is-vladimir...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/02/20/is-vladimir...
1
If you want to understand all this, just look at the money, the guns, and the egos of the men involved. Hacking is just a means to an end. Putin, as Russia’s chief crime boss, is the richest man in world. But money doesn’t give you class or standing in the world or secure your future. Power does. And power gives ample opportunity to enhance your fortune at the same time. Cue the envious and opportunistic Donald and the alignment of his interests with Putin's.
For Putin’s personal and political fortune, the best thing that could happen is the humiliation of the US and its acquiescence to his gun toting forays into Crimea, eastern Ukraine, and Syria. US led sanctions have hurt Russia tremendously, and Putin is desperate to weaken western resolve and blame the west for Russia's struggles. Trump took advantage of our very unsettled domestic politics, but needed help across the finish line. He also happened to be just the man for an inside attack against our country’s interests, and hacking our election was the key to huge dividends for both men.
Putin and Donald couldn’t be happier. And soon even richer. Too bad our democracy and thousands of innocents had to die. With more, undoubtedly, to follow.
For Putin’s personal and political fortune, the best thing that could happen is the humiliation of the US and its acquiescence to his gun toting forays into Crimea, eastern Ukraine, and Syria. US led sanctions have hurt Russia tremendously, and Putin is desperate to weaken western resolve and blame the west for Russia's struggles. Trump took advantage of our very unsettled domestic politics, but needed help across the finish line. He also happened to be just the man for an inside attack against our country’s interests, and hacking our election was the key to huge dividends for both men.
Putin and Donald couldn’t be happier. And soon even richer. Too bad our democracy and thousands of innocents had to die. With more, undoubtedly, to follow.
4
It's time for the democrats to stop inflating this issue and promoting the Russians as global giants so powerful they can influence a US election.
If it were truly an issue, President Obama would have given one of his long-winded lectures on the power of American democracy and how it cannot be influenced by a third-party.
If it were truly an issue, President Obama would have given one of his long-winded lectures on the power of American democracy and how it cannot be influenced by a third-party.
9
The propaganda campaign that flowed from the stolen DNC data is what really needs to be fully investigated for the trails that may lead down and the connections it may make back to a campaign full of apparent shock and awe. The hacking itself was just a small part of what happened but remains the major focus of politicans and investigators. The disinformation (read old style propaganda) campaign was really well orchestrated. It took advantage of timing in its use of social media and its associated attacks on traditional media in an attempt to get ahead of the leaks and discredit independent sources of information. Who knew what, and when and was there collusion between any political campaign associates and foreign based activists to use stolen data to create distrust or even just disgust and disinterest in American voters. As has been pointed out information is hacked often and sometimes even by our own government. It is how that stolen information was weaponized and by who that seems to be the question. We were all distracted by the prospect that this disinformation was leading to a Trump media empire based on Breitbart style reporting. In reality it was perhaps designed to capture the Presidency.
2
As with the intel "community," HC, you assume facts not in evidence. We have no way of knowing that the DNC data were "stolen" as you assert. It is quite possible that someone who had the rightful authority to possess the emails may have leaked it.
In light of this, we have no evidence that the data came from a hack.
How's this: we waste the fewer than two years between now and the midterms to obsess on this distraction and allow Trump to enact his neo-Reagan agenda unimpeded, no matter who it hurts. Do you want that? Really?
We have work to do. Get on board or get out of the way.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
In light of this, we have no evidence that the data came from a hack.
How's this: we waste the fewer than two years between now and the midterms to obsess on this distraction and allow Trump to enact his neo-Reagan agenda unimpeded, no matter who it hurts. Do you want that? Really?
We have work to do. Get on board or get out of the way.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
3
My plan for people who believe anything without evidence: Send them a bill for services rendered without proof they owe you money. Watch how fast they'll start demanding proof!
But tell them something they want to hear and they don't even question it.
How gullible.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
But tell them something they want to hear and they don't even question it.
How gullible.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
12
Why Reverend, I thought accepting without evidence was called FAITH.
2
Yes, and faith-based government policy leads to disaster.
I am not among the faithful in that regard.
Will you pay me if I send you an invoice?
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
I am not among the faithful in that regard.
Will you pay me if I send you an invoice?
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
4
"Will you pay me if I send you an invoice?"
If you assure Ms. Shepard that the CIA agrees with you, I'm sure she'll gladly pay your invoice.
If you assure Ms. Shepard that the CIA agrees with you, I'm sure she'll gladly pay your invoice.
4
Kasparov has first hand knowledge:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/30/opinion/sunday/america-your-election-i...
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/30/opinion/sunday/america-your-election-i...
The Election was Stolen. Here’s How…
Kris Kobach, Kansas Secretary of State, created a system to purge 1.1 million Americans of color from the voter rolls of GOP–controlled states.
The system, called Crosscheck.
http://www.gregpalast.com/election-stolen-heres/
It's sad that Americans know nothing of, "caging" whereby millions of legally registered voters are purged from the voter rolls. Add to that the millions of "spoiled ballots" that never get counted.
This is the real problem folks. Everything else is pure pornography.
Kris Kobach, Kansas Secretary of State, created a system to purge 1.1 million Americans of color from the voter rolls of GOP–controlled states.
The system, called Crosscheck.
http://www.gregpalast.com/election-stolen-heres/
It's sad that Americans know nothing of, "caging" whereby millions of legally registered voters are purged from the voter rolls. Add to that the millions of "spoiled ballots" that never get counted.
This is the real problem folks. Everything else is pure pornography.
6
Is it not obvious to the readers here that the timing of this choreographed series of statements and disclosures are aimed at the delegitimizing of Trump prior to his Inauguration?
I am not an American, so I have no horse in thiss race.
I am not an American, so I have no horse in thiss race.
12
The delegitimizing of Trump as a serious human being began years ago when he was consulting conspiracy theorists and lying that the POTUS was foreign born.
The Times reported the Russia stuff back in September, but as usual the Trumpies were not listening.
The Times reported the Russia stuff back in September, but as usual the Trumpies were not listening.
4
But note, neither of that officially delegitimized Trump, or didn't stop him from winning. Apparently, voters could not care less about him being unperfect human being and Russian agents. Whose fault is that? Russians? Or American politicians?
1
Is it not strange that our "high confidence" accusers of Russian hacking cannot back up their assertions because that would disclose U.S. hacking activities against Russia? It seems that there is something also strange about the almost holy defenders in the Senate of our sacred voting system when we apparently can't say what hacking we are doing of Russian affairs that one can assume must be as sacred a violation as the one we are alleging that Russia has done. It seems the whole affair is a lot of words with not much in the way of sincere facts.
11
I'd like to approach this issue from another angle. For the sake of an example, I'll assume that Russia was indeed guilty of meddling, however that's defined. Given that, what do you think caused the Democrats the loss of the working class vote? Was it
A. Russian meddling, or B. Clinton and the Democrats promoting trade agreements that sent millions of American jobs to other countries.
Boy that's a tough one.
Or this: Was the loss of the election due to,
A. Russian release of DNC emails, or B. Clinton and the Democrats kicking unions in the teeth for the last four decades, culminating in the recent hanging of unions completely out to dry in Wisconsin, Indiana, Ohio and other traditional union strongholds that have consistantly delivered, for virtually nothing in return, the vote for Democrats.
Again, a really tough one there.
There are countless other examples for all but the most deeply in denial about Clinton's historic loss, but here's a really fun question and it makes me a little giddy asking it: What do you think had the most effect on the election, A. Russian meddling, or B. Clinton lead man John Podesta's brilliant strategy--uncovered in those pesky leaked emails--of working in whatever way to elevate the fringe Republican candidates to help even out the field, candidates like Donald Trump.
With a genius like Podesta at the helm, what could possibly have gone wrong? But, let's blame the Russians...
A. Russian meddling, or B. Clinton and the Democrats promoting trade agreements that sent millions of American jobs to other countries.
Boy that's a tough one.
Or this: Was the loss of the election due to,
A. Russian release of DNC emails, or B. Clinton and the Democrats kicking unions in the teeth for the last four decades, culminating in the recent hanging of unions completely out to dry in Wisconsin, Indiana, Ohio and other traditional union strongholds that have consistantly delivered, for virtually nothing in return, the vote for Democrats.
Again, a really tough one there.
There are countless other examples for all but the most deeply in denial about Clinton's historic loss, but here's a really fun question and it makes me a little giddy asking it: What do you think had the most effect on the election, A. Russian meddling, or B. Clinton lead man John Podesta's brilliant strategy--uncovered in those pesky leaked emails--of working in whatever way to elevate the fringe Republican candidates to help even out the field, candidates like Donald Trump.
With a genius like Podesta at the helm, what could possibly have gone wrong? But, let's blame the Russians...
13
Dear RJS:
You set up a host of straw men then knock them down. How convenient. Good God, get a grip, old sport.
The cause of Hillary's "historic" loss was an outdated (I wrote about this back in 1960, concerning the JFK/Nixon campaign) 240 year old anomaly in the Constitution. Through a fluke, we have the Idiot-in-Chief.
Don't bother explaining Trump to me. I have known this creep for decades. I have had told to me by numerous acquaintances first-hand anecdotes about what an absolute dolt Trump is. There is an enormous amount of evidence of his incompetence going back to his first venture in Manhattan, when his Daddy had to bail him out of his notorious Commodore Hotel fiasco. So spare me your "Field Of Dreams" bon mots. If Trump builds it, we won't come.
We Dems are not questioning who was the victor. But, the margin of error in the three Rust Belt states was less than JFK's victory. But, a win is a win, so enough Monday morning quarterbacking.
Here is what we know. Our Intelligence Community claim with high reliability the Russians hacked the DNC; fact. The Russian objective was to damage Hillary's credibility, to mess with the minds of a gullible American electorate. It worked. Voters who decided in the final two weeks of the campaign overwhelmingly voted Trump; fact.
President Obama, VP Biden, the Clintons, the DNC did not question the outcome. JFK once said, "Life isn't fair". Three years later, his words were prescient. And life goes on.
DD
Manhattan
You set up a host of straw men then knock them down. How convenient. Good God, get a grip, old sport.
The cause of Hillary's "historic" loss was an outdated (I wrote about this back in 1960, concerning the JFK/Nixon campaign) 240 year old anomaly in the Constitution. Through a fluke, we have the Idiot-in-Chief.
Don't bother explaining Trump to me. I have known this creep for decades. I have had told to me by numerous acquaintances first-hand anecdotes about what an absolute dolt Trump is. There is an enormous amount of evidence of his incompetence going back to his first venture in Manhattan, when his Daddy had to bail him out of his notorious Commodore Hotel fiasco. So spare me your "Field Of Dreams" bon mots. If Trump builds it, we won't come.
We Dems are not questioning who was the victor. But, the margin of error in the three Rust Belt states was less than JFK's victory. But, a win is a win, so enough Monday morning quarterbacking.
Here is what we know. Our Intelligence Community claim with high reliability the Russians hacked the DNC; fact. The Russian objective was to damage Hillary's credibility, to mess with the minds of a gullible American electorate. It worked. Voters who decided in the final two weeks of the campaign overwhelmingly voted Trump; fact.
President Obama, VP Biden, the Clintons, the DNC did not question the outcome. JFK once said, "Life isn't fair". Three years later, his words were prescient. And life goes on.
DD
Manhattan
4
Did the leak occur in July? much more than 2 weeks before the election. Isn't that a fact?
To Dennis D. in New York--So, my examples aren't accurate? Did not the Dems push and support policies that sent millions of jobs to other countries? That's just a fact; one that even Clinton admits to. How am I wrong about the Democrat's abandonment of unions? That's just another fact that millions of my fellow union members would agree happened. And sorry, but Podesta's words about elevating the fringe Republicans like Trump are his, not mine. You can find them in the leaked emails.
By the outdated anomaly, I assume you're referring to the electoral college, which even some sharper grade school kids can tell you is what is needed to win the presidency, not the popular vote. Unfortunately, Clinton and Podesta, utilizing the fudged numbers they paid pollsters to provide them showing the results they wanted--namely, that Clinton was headed toward a landslide victory--horribly miscalculated the actual electoral count, costing them--thank our lucky stars--the White House.
There is some delicious irony in all of this for me, and I suspect many others with a good sense of humor, and that is that the polls, which were so obviously little more than propaganda on the Demo side, by predicting such a high probability of a Clinton victory, motivated many Republicans to get out and vote, while probably keeping many Dems and independents in key areas home, thinking it was in the bag for Clinton. Podesta polling propaganda backfires! Who'd a thunk it?
By the outdated anomaly, I assume you're referring to the electoral college, which even some sharper grade school kids can tell you is what is needed to win the presidency, not the popular vote. Unfortunately, Clinton and Podesta, utilizing the fudged numbers they paid pollsters to provide them showing the results they wanted--namely, that Clinton was headed toward a landslide victory--horribly miscalculated the actual electoral count, costing them--thank our lucky stars--the White House.
There is some delicious irony in all of this for me, and I suspect many others with a good sense of humor, and that is that the polls, which were so obviously little more than propaganda on the Demo side, by predicting such a high probability of a Clinton victory, motivated many Republicans to get out and vote, while probably keeping many Dems and independents in key areas home, thinking it was in the bag for Clinton. Podesta polling propaganda backfires! Who'd a thunk it?
3
You couldn't make this stuff up!
"...and that's what internet trolls do. They ridicule others."
Logic not clear to you?
If internet trolls ridicule others, it follows that anyone who ridicules others must be an internet troll.
Get the "logic" now?
In other words, all you need to do is toss out some allegation -- with no evidence whatsoever -- and if the accused person denies what you allege and ridicules you for alleging it, you've just established your allegation! What more "evidence" do you need?
"...and that's what internet trolls do. They ridicule others."
Logic not clear to you?
If internet trolls ridicule others, it follows that anyone who ridicules others must be an internet troll.
Get the "logic" now?
In other words, all you need to do is toss out some allegation -- with no evidence whatsoever -- and if the accused person denies what you allege and ridicules you for alleging it, you've just established your allegation! What more "evidence" do you need?
9
Your logic fails. Even if the original statement is true, that does not guarantee that the inverse is true.
If it is a cow, then it has four legs. True
If it has four legs, then it is a cow. False
If it is a cow, then it has four legs. True
If it has four legs, then it is a cow. False
1
Patricia,
That's why I put "logic" between quotation marks.
That's why I put "logic" between quotation marks.
5
In response to this article and many others written by the NYT's regarding Russia's "hacking" of US elections The US government oversees a massive network of media outlets and well-paid hacks, along with an army of academics and think tank propagandists, to manipulate public opinion and turn reality on its head in the furtherance of its aggressive geopolitical aims. When it comes to disinformation, the Kremlin is small potatoes compared to Washington.
14
It is absolutely beyond my comprehension how Americans can write off the active participation of a foreign government in their elections so blithely, while contentedly blaming it on their President and the U.S. Intelligence communities.
But then, for the most part, Americans have no idea of just what and whom they're dealing with.
And neither does their president-(s)elect.
I lived in a country once divided and surrounded by Soviet rule.
Don't make the mistake of thinking Mr. Putin is on you side, or you will soon experience what it is like for yourselves.
The Cold War never ended.
But then, for the most part, Americans have no idea of just what and whom they're dealing with.
And neither does their president-(s)elect.
I lived in a country once divided and surrounded by Soviet rule.
Don't make the mistake of thinking Mr. Putin is on you side, or you will soon experience what it is like for yourselves.
The Cold War never ended.
5
I want to know what it takes to deem a presidential election invalid. It's hard to find the information. I've only been able to find a few examples, none obviously in a presidential election:
http://newcastleadvertiser.co.za/107547/must-read-ward-23-by-elections-d...
https://www.agc.org/news/2012/05/18/nlrb%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%9Cquickie-elec...
I would appreciate it if some news organization would take on the task of finding out and publishing it so that we all know what the rules are since it seems that they are murky.
http://newcastleadvertiser.co.za/107547/must-read-ward-23-by-elections-d...
https://www.agc.org/news/2012/05/18/nlrb%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%9Cquickie-elec...
I would appreciate it if some news organization would take on the task of finding out and publishing it so that we all know what the rules are since it seems that they are murky.
That's to be expected when you level accusations without real evidence.
You make yourself a laughingstock, or in this case an even bigger laughingstock after this ridiculous election farce with two horrid candidates.
Is America going to drop some Napalm on Russia now like they did in Vietnam to defeat those darn commies?
Or how about some drone strikes like in the Middle East?
This is beyond pathetic and SAD. Bigly.
You make yourself a laughingstock, or in this case an even bigger laughingstock after this ridiculous election farce with two horrid candidates.
Is America going to drop some Napalm on Russia now like they did in Vietnam to defeat those darn commies?
Or how about some drone strikes like in the Middle East?
This is beyond pathetic and SAD. Bigly.
9
Problem is not in question who hacked. Problem is what Hillary have in her mail, and why she didn't use proper mail server. If all was ok nothing to show.
9
"The conclusion that the hacking was ordered by Vladimir Putin discredits the entire report for me. How would they know that?"
Simple -- they just "assess" it. And if the Russians deny it, it must be true!
Tough to argue with that "logic."
Simple -- they just "assess" it. And if the Russians deny it, it must be true!
Tough to argue with that "logic."
9
You aren't using logic. You are just saying stuff.
This accusation, without one shred of real proof, has done even more damage, if such is possible, to the entire Democratic political machine, in that it clearly indicates that these self-serving imbeciles, who in their blind avaricious drive to win, instead caused Trump to win, and to add insult to injury, these imbeciles refuse to accept blame, and apparently have no wish to engage in introspection, and regain the trust they willfully threw away.
Never ever in my nearly 70 years on the planet, have I witnessed genuine political suicide, by the entire Democratic party, and still over two month later, they continue to whinge, and keep the lie in play.
Never ever in my nearly 70 years on the planet, have I witnessed genuine political suicide, by the entire Democratic party, and still over two month later, they continue to whinge, and keep the lie in play.
14
We have no evidence that Russia influenced the recent Presidential elections. Obama said so. Clapper said so. Why the hysteria on this subject?
Many may dislike Trump for his arrogance and privileged style, but it was Americans that voted him into office, not Russians or anyone else.
We need to get over blaming others for our failings. We need to stop being the whining children.
Many may dislike Trump for his arrogance and privileged style, but it was Americans that voted him into office, not Russians or anyone else.
We need to get over blaming others for our failings. We need to stop being the whining children.
10
"US was sure about Hussein possessing WMD in the same way.”
Who spoke these words:
a) Alexey Pushkov
b) Donald Trump
c) Neither of the above
d) Both of the above
Who spoke these words first?
Who knows?
Who spoke these words:
a) Alexey Pushkov
b) Donald Trump
c) Neither of the above
d) Both of the above
Who spoke these words first?
Who knows?
All the comparisons to Soviet propaganda miss the point. Soviet propaganda was laughably bad, and Soviet citizens post-Stalin mostly rolled their eyes at it and weren't fooled at all. Soviet citizens during Stalin also mostly knew it was garbage, but knew better than to show that they didn't believe it.
What makes the latest Russian influence campaigns effective is that they learned a lot from US media, whose techniques of manufacturing consent they now utilize to great effect. For the first time ever, Russian propaganda is actually believed by most Russians, and they couldn't have done it without lessons from US mainstream media.
Further, RT, Sputniknews, et al. have found natural allies in anti-interventionist Americans and Brits from all over the political spectrum. Lots of us would prefer to avoid international entanglements, and the liberal interventionism the NYT and WaPo push is actually unpopular outside the corridors of political and media power.
Most Americans dislike Putin but don't have any desire to intervene militarily in Syria or Ukraine, neither of which have anything to do with US national security. Both RT/Sputniknews and Trump capitalized on this.
What makes the latest Russian influence campaigns effective is that they learned a lot from US media, whose techniques of manufacturing consent they now utilize to great effect. For the first time ever, Russian propaganda is actually believed by most Russians, and they couldn't have done it without lessons from US mainstream media.
Further, RT, Sputniknews, et al. have found natural allies in anti-interventionist Americans and Brits from all over the political spectrum. Lots of us would prefer to avoid international entanglements, and the liberal interventionism the NYT and WaPo push is actually unpopular outside the corridors of political and media power.
Most Americans dislike Putin but don't have any desire to intervene militarily in Syria or Ukraine, neither of which have anything to do with US national security. Both RT/Sputniknews and Trump capitalized on this.
6
It may be unfair to blame this hysteria on Hillary Clinton, since she's kept very quiet lately. It's her supporters who are pushing this "The Russians did it!" story. Nevertheless, it's getting a bit out of hand and, at some point, Clinton has a moral duty to put a hand on the shoulder of these zealots, and say: "Cool it a bit, eh? We're starting to look a bit stupid here."
10
Or should she be leading chants of LOCK HIM UP and calling himCROOKED DONALD?
Or maybe demanding to see his birth certificate, and promising to send a "team" to investigate if he is REALLY an American citizen or just a Russian plant.
Or lining up all Melania's past lovers to sit on the front row at the inauguration.
So many choices.....
Or maybe demanding to see his birth certificate, and promising to send a "team" to investigate if he is REALLY an American citizen or just a Russian plant.
Or lining up all Melania's past lovers to sit on the front row at the inauguration.
So many choices.....
2
I just saw James Baker, former Secretary of State, say that the US has 17 intelligence agencies. If 17 independent agencies believe that Russia intervened in our election, that is good enough for me.
2
One aspect of these comments that is particularly disturbing to me is the mean-spirited claims by alleged Bernie supporters that the hacking was immaterial to the Clinton defeat. Any "decent" person of "progressive" or even "liberal" political principles cannot be other than saddened, if not horrified by the Trump victory and what it means for America. Certainly none of us would want to join the bizarre Trump victory parade, narrated by Trump himself--so why are so many of these "Bernie" commentators jumping in? Is it a troll strategy to fragment the Left or are they just mean-spirited fools?
2
I guess we're already against the next ear.
Oops sorry 'bout that typo. We're not against the next ear, we're already against the next war.
1
No one in his right mind is in favor of war per se; but you might be interested in considering the book "The Angry Years" (1936-41). The peace movement in the United States made all of the arguments then that we still hear to day; except that those arguments were against Roosevelt's violating the US neutrality Act by attempting to supply England against the Nazis. The assumption of moral superiority is not simply a given.
"Of course they'd ridicule...."
Darn right -- the very fact that the Russians deny these allegations means the allegations must be true! What more evidence does anyone need?
Gotta admit I'm losing a bit of respect for the reasoning abilities of those who are claiming to spot a Russian bear under every bed.
Darn right -- the very fact that the Russians deny these allegations means the allegations must be true! What more evidence does anyone need?
Gotta admit I'm losing a bit of respect for the reasoning abilities of those who are claiming to spot a Russian bear under every bed.
10
A CIA true-believer insists:
"Even if rock hard evidence turns up, expect the Russians to deny and expect Trump to defend them."
Just show me some of that rock-hard evidence -- or any evidence at all, for that matter -- and I'll draw my own conclusions, no matter what the Russians or Trump might say.
We've had enough CIA "assessments" for a while. We're more into evidence these days.
"Even if rock hard evidence turns up, expect the Russians to deny and expect Trump to defend them."
Just show me some of that rock-hard evidence -- or any evidence at all, for that matter -- and I'll draw my own conclusions, no matter what the Russians or Trump might say.
We've had enough CIA "assessments" for a while. We're more into evidence these days.
10
"The important thing is that all the information released was true."
There is that.
If someone learns about a dirty trick played by the DNC on Bernie Sanders, or about Donna Brazile passing on debate questions in advance to HRC's campaign and bragging that she can get even more for them, is the important point how we learned this? Or are the DNC's dirty trick and Brazile's shenanigans the important points, regardless of how we learned about them? If some disgruntled DNC or HRC had reported them instead, would that be better?
There is that.
If someone learns about a dirty trick played by the DNC on Bernie Sanders, or about Donna Brazile passing on debate questions in advance to HRC's campaign and bragging that she can get even more for them, is the important point how we learned this? Or are the DNC's dirty trick and Brazile's shenanigans the important points, regardless of how we learned about them? If some disgruntled DNC or HRC had reported them instead, would that be better?
8
Your article states: "The report provides no new evidence to support assertions that Moscow meddled covertly through hacking and other actions to boost the electoral chances of Donald J. Trump and undermine his rival, Hillary Clinton, but rests instead on what it describes as Moscow’s long record of trying to influence America’s political system." So, in fact, there is NO evidence presented, and the whole thing comes down to, "they've done a lot of stuff like this in the past, so this must be more of the same." You couldn't convict a jaywalker with "evidence" like this. Aren't we right to be skeptical?
10
The Elephant in the room is: What did Donald Trump or any of his associates know of Putins hacking activities of DNC servers either during or before his entry into the race. It would appear that any "hacking" of the GOP would have been nothing but a red herring diversion given the lack of evidence to the contrary. The question has to be asked.
The real question is what did Obama know and when did he know it? And why is he only now making a fuss?
6
It is tiresome to hear the Trump mantra, often repeatedly by the credulous press, that the CIA and other intelligence agencies 'got it wrong' about WMD in Iraq. Not true. They got it largely right.
The intelligence was doctored from the top down to make it look like there were WMD's in Iraq when, in fact, the agencies were markedly equivocal or negative on the notion. See this interview:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/nada-bakos-how-zarqawi-went-fr...
Trump is simply recycling Bush II administration lies, and, incredibly, blaming the intelligence agencies.
The intelligence was doctored from the top down to make it look like there were WMD's in Iraq when, in fact, the agencies were markedly equivocal or negative on the notion. See this interview:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/nada-bakos-how-zarqawi-went-fr...
Trump is simply recycling Bush II administration lies, and, incredibly, blaming the intelligence agencies.
2
Illegal activity called "drive bys" are becoming more common. Politicos scouring the Net on basic consumer machines one would purchase at a big box retailer would be the most likely victims. In a drive by a website will load a viewer program in a matter of seconds from a compromised website. Then the compromised screen is available for a host of bad actors to watch and wait. Secure environments exist that are resistant to this type of hack. Common sense dictates that one should not Web surf on the same computer used for sensitive activity.
1
Given the proven depth and breadth and duration of Russian hacking and meddling in our election, it's extremely likely Russian trolls are responsible for many of the pro Putin comments here. Just saying.
3
Since everyone who opposed Hillary is a KGB spy,I'm assuming it's time to arrest Bernie Sanders
8
Who said that everybody who opposed Hillary is a Russian agent?
I'm waiting for the Democrats to arrest Obama for hacking Angela Merkel's iPhone
8
And I'm waiting for Trump's tax returns that he promised, and for him to start behaving like he has even one iota of class.
I think we will both be disappointed.
I think we will both be disappointed.
2
"Besides, what the Russians are accused of doing is releasing true information about Hillary Clinton and her associates that voters considered interesting and relevant."
How about that?
For example, it's undisputed that Donna Brazile (a former top DNC official) fed debate questions in advance to HRC's campaign people (who presumably passed them on to HRC herself, since those questions are useless unless she learns of them), and it's undisputed that the DNC played various dirty trick to weaken Bernie Sanders' chances. Are those facts what were important important? Or was it more important to be told how we learned those undisputed facts?
How about that?
For example, it's undisputed that Donna Brazile (a former top DNC official) fed debate questions in advance to HRC's campaign people (who presumably passed them on to HRC herself, since those questions are useless unless she learns of them), and it's undisputed that the DNC played various dirty trick to weaken Bernie Sanders' chances. Are those facts what were important important? Or was it more important to be told how we learned those undisputed facts?
9
@MyThreeCents. Yes, Donna Brazile told the Clinton camp there would be a question about Flint's lead poisoned water. Yeah, that's why she looked prepared and Trump looked clueless in every debate. Did Donna also give Hilary all the questions before the 11 hour Benghazi committee witch hunt, I mean hearing? Hillary prepares. she didn't need any debate help from Donna.
And yes, the DNC said mean things about Bernie, but the only substantive they did was run the primary debates at unfavorable times. Bernie ran a good grassroots campaign and came in a close second. But the substantial majority of Democratic primary voters preferred HRC. And that's a fact.
And yes, the DNC said mean things about Bernie, but the only substantive they did was run the primary debates at unfavorable times. Bernie ran a good grassroots campaign and came in a close second. But the substantial majority of Democratic primary voters preferred HRC. And that's a fact.
2
Never thought I'd see the day!
Democrats insisting on blind-faith acceptance of evidence-free CIA "assessments?"
Good thing those evidence-free "assessments" favor Hillary. If it were the other way around, I doubt the CIA would be garnering much respect.
Democrats insisting on blind-faith acceptance of evidence-free CIA "assessments?"
Good thing those evidence-free "assessments" favor Hillary. If it were the other way around, I doubt the CIA would be garnering much respect.
9
I continue to be amazed that so many apparently intelligent people continue to believe these "The Russkies did it!" stories. I'll wager that HRC herself told campaign staffers to downplay these allegations lest they be laughed at. She was probably as amazed as I was to be told it was "selling" well.
But "sell well" it has. Even weeks after the election, respectable publications are still purveying "The Russkies did it!" stories, and readers are still eating them up. Amazing, but there's no denying it.
But "sell well" it has. Even weeks after the election, respectable publications are still purveying "The Russkies did it!" stories, and readers are still eating them up. Amazing, but there's no denying it.
10
In the past we have noted Russia's meddling in other countries affairs like Ukraine and the Baltic states. The unrest in the Middle East they have used to their advantage. We know for a fact that Russia does all these things. Then why are we not more prepared to counter this? From what I read is that the DNC and Podesta's email account was child's play to hack. Now we are blaming the Russians for our own incompetence in preventing cyber attacks. We should take our medicine and be sure it does not occur again. This is no fairy tale people, Russia wanted Trump to win because Putin hated Clinton. No secret there. We had warning but we must have said, oh that happens to other countries but not us. It did happen folks much to our embarrassment. Whether it influenced the election only the voters can reveal. We have been hacked so many times it is not funny. China, Russia, and even NK tried. Asking them to stop is not good enough, we must put up the firewalls and strengthen our networks both private and government. And then actively punish countries who do hack the US.
2
The USA is as guilty of influencing the internal politics of other nations as Russia is but the USA does not kill it`s journalists & truth tellers. eg. "56 Journalists Killed in Russia - Committee to Protect Journalists
https://cpj.org/killed/europe/russia/
56 Journalists Killed in Russia/Motive Confirmed"
The USA will however jail them for life (C. Manning) or pursue them relentlessly to try to jail them eg Snowden. At times the differences between the two nations activities gets down to splitting hairs.
I don`t want to live in Russia but Trump is making the USA "Fly Over" country.
https://cpj.org/killed/europe/russia/
56 Journalists Killed in Russia/Motive Confirmed"
The USA will however jail them for life (C. Manning) or pursue them relentlessly to try to jail them eg Snowden. At times the differences between the two nations activities gets down to splitting hairs.
I don`t want to live in Russia but Trump is making the USA "Fly Over" country.
4
We just took an hour to watch Frontline's "Putin's Way". I highly recommend doing the same. We are all in this together. We need to find common ground to protect our democracy, and make sure our voices are heard.
3
Here is the real dope on this election: America didn't so much elect Donald Trump-a questionable New Yorker of formerly Democrastic leanings as the Democrats and the Republicans voted against Hillary Clinton. If the Russkis wanted to control events they did the most by picking at the scabs on Mrs CLinton's overly sensitive political thin skin.
Had Biden or some other regular Democrat run, (this is just a guess), I am pretty sure the Democrats would have won.
America may be ready for a woman as President but I suspect it is too early and that Mrs CLinton was the wrong lady. She had made too many enemies and haad a repulation for being vengeful, for saying cruel and mean spirited things. We expect women to be our "better halves" but Hillary was more like America's worst "nightmare version of the Mother in Law from hades".
If she had been popular-where were the extra 60 odd million voters who assured Obama's election? Why did so many stay home when they might have pushed her over the top. Its true the media fumbled by making people think the election was over in August-even Trump was sure he was losing because the NYTimes said so. In fact, this was a unhappy concatenation of bad coverage, and sneaky interference by foreign elements. If, however, Biden had been the candidate, things might have been different. Had third parties not latched on and sucked the votes from the Dems, it might have ended different.
This was an election AGAINST Hillary, not for Trump.
Had Biden or some other regular Democrat run, (this is just a guess), I am pretty sure the Democrats would have won.
America may be ready for a woman as President but I suspect it is too early and that Mrs CLinton was the wrong lady. She had made too many enemies and haad a repulation for being vengeful, for saying cruel and mean spirited things. We expect women to be our "better halves" but Hillary was more like America's worst "nightmare version of the Mother in Law from hades".
If she had been popular-where were the extra 60 odd million voters who assured Obama's election? Why did so many stay home when they might have pushed her over the top. Its true the media fumbled by making people think the election was over in August-even Trump was sure he was losing because the NYTimes said so. In fact, this was a unhappy concatenation of bad coverage, and sneaky interference by foreign elements. If, however, Biden had been the candidate, things might have been different. Had third parties not latched on and sucked the votes from the Dems, it might have ended different.
This was an election AGAINST Hillary, not for Trump.
5
This is all related to Hillary's email system not being secure, that's much worse
then weather or not the Russian's hacked the election and being bandied around to make Trump look bad.
then weather or not the Russian's hacked the election and being bandied around to make Trump look bad.
4
No, it really isn't. But please keep saying "Hillary's emails" as often as you can, and don't forget to throw in a couple of BENGHZIs too.
If the Russians had hacked Trump and Trump lost the election our "progressives" would be giving Putin a medal of honor.
4
I'm guessing that they DID hack Trump too. Then they compared the two to decide which candidate would be most likely to throw America into so much chaos that we would not have the sense to interfere in their annexation plans and decided TRUMP MUST WIN.
Mr. Trump's reluctance to take very seriously the combined wisdom of the U. S. intelligence agencies, combined with his refusal to spend time learning the issues he will face as President and daily intelligence briefings, and the pro-Russian aides that have his attention daily, makes it appear that he prefers Mr. Putin's Russian KGB and Military intelligence to inform him as he assumes the Presidency. He is not only "in over his head" and counseled by anti-democratic advisors, but seems determined to serve the interests of Mr. Putin, his economic and foreign policy and his fellow oligarchs. We are in dangerous waters.
3
Does anyone doubt that if Hillary won the American people would have never heard about Russian "meddling in the election"?
7
No.
2
Of course they wouldn't have. That's why Obama kept it a secret until she lost. The timing of the release of this report is pure political theater.
8
The conclusion that the hacking was ordered by Vladimir Putin discredits the entire report for me. How would they know that? Unless we have spies in Putin's cabinet or direct access to Putin's private correspondence (highly unlikely) we could never know if he was involved. The fact is, everybody hacks everybody. It's been going on since the first two computers were connected and will never stop. The agencies who produced this report are the same ones who have been hacking and meddling in other countries' affairs for decades. and I find it a bit hypocritical. My vote for a presidential candidate would never be influenced by another country and I think any reasonably intelligent American should be insulted by that accusation.
Donald Trump's attitude of wanting to sit down with Mr. Putin and work on solving some of the world's problems is refreshing. I also think he should invite Chinese President Xi Jinping to the table. Imagine what could be accomplished if these three great countries could work together to spread their influence toward common goals to benefit humanity.
I have been to Russia over a dozen times and I can tell you that the people of Russia are very much like us. They want peace, prosperity, national security and to thrive and be a part of the growing world economy. They also want to be our FRIENDS. Vladimir Putin is their elected representative of those goals and as such should be given more respect. We should support Donald Trump in his efforts.
Donald Trump's attitude of wanting to sit down with Mr. Putin and work on solving some of the world's problems is refreshing. I also think he should invite Chinese President Xi Jinping to the table. Imagine what could be accomplished if these three great countries could work together to spread their influence toward common goals to benefit humanity.
I have been to Russia over a dozen times and I can tell you that the people of Russia are very much like us. They want peace, prosperity, national security and to thrive and be a part of the growing world economy. They also want to be our FRIENDS. Vladimir Putin is their elected representative of those goals and as such should be given more respect. We should support Donald Trump in his efforts.
9
Have the Russians ever acknowledged anything remotely truthful about anything ever?.. they are a kleptocracy with a mafia style leader. They will steal and cheat and lie to hide the fact that they are less than a backwater civilization. Only an idiot like trump would say otherwise. And for good reason. Think of all the opportunities to do business in Russia.
1
...and that's what internet trolls do. They ridicule others.
1
From the so-called Intelligence Report: "RT broadcast, hosted, and advertised third-party candidate debates"
Someone explain how hosting a 3rd party debate is deemed "evidence" of "Russian Meddling"?
Does this mean Jill Stein and Gary Johnson are Russian agents and part of this elaborate Russian plan to elect Donald Trump?
The Intelligence Report is a complete Democrat Party propaganda piece issued by Obama appointees Clapper and Brennan.
Someone explain how hosting a 3rd party debate is deemed "evidence" of "Russian Meddling"?
Does this mean Jill Stein and Gary Johnson are Russian agents and part of this elaborate Russian plan to elect Donald Trump?
The Intelligence Report is a complete Democrat Party propaganda piece issued by Obama appointees Clapper and Brennan.
9
EXTRA! EXTRA!
Trump putts Putin to tee off on Dem "fools"!
Pence humble vassal...er vessel!
Ryan, McConnell lurk! Salivate!
Trump putts Putin to tee off on Dem "fools"!
Pence humble vassal...er vessel!
Ryan, McConnell lurk! Salivate!
1
The only person that helped Mr. Trump to win the election was and is and always will be Hillary Clinton. No one else.
11
This is a comment made on how the Russians try to (and often succeed) in shaping public opinion. We all know that Czechoslovakia under the Communist regime was completely under the control f the Soviets. After my family moved to the US from Australia, we got a letter from my grandmother in Prague who was very worried because there was not enough coal to heat the schools here during the winter. Ludricious on any level but indicative of how public opinion can be easily manipulated by a government and a lie become "the truth".
1
What did people expect? None of the intelligence agencies could publically publish the "hard evidence" without giving away at least some f their methods and sources. That the agencies all agree the Russians were behind the hacking of the DNC and Podesta's emails and then selectively released them using WikiLeaks and other sites is enough for me. The timing asf the leaks and whatwas leaked aabsolutely had an effect on the election. Those who voted for Trump consistenly believed Hillary was dishonest, devious and corrupt. The leaks only seemed to reinforce the opinions. To say that had no effect is ridiculous. That the Russians interfered in our election is a threat to our democracy and Republicans should be concerned and enraged by that.
1
Clinton’s campaign was hacked by millions of us posting comments in the web and the CIA is trying to rob our victory and hand it over to Putin with a ridiculous conspiracy theory.
The Russian DNC hack is just a conspiracy theory and the CIA is overrun by conspiracy theorists. The next thing you know they’ll blame a terrorist attack on ETs.
The Russian DNC hack is just a conspiracy theory and the CIA is overrun by conspiracy theorists. The next thing you know they’ll blame a terrorist attack on ETs.
4
Of course Russia denies this. And of course the declassified report is vague about sources - do you want to get our agents killed?
What's also obvious is that the only sentence in the report that Trump and his supporters are paying any attention to is the statement that the agencies did not evaluate the effect of the Russian interference on the outcome of the election. Please note: "We did not evaluate" is not the same thing as "There was no effect."
Trump supporters are now puffing out their chests and declaring that they didn't need the Russians to tell them that Hillary was a lying, murdering child molester. Never mind those "elitist" fact-checkers ... they just KNOW.
I'm sure they also believe that advertising has nothing to do with the reason they pay twice as much for brand-name cough medicine instead of the generic version that has the exact same ingredients. They just KNOW the brand name works better.
What's also obvious is that the only sentence in the report that Trump and his supporters are paying any attention to is the statement that the agencies did not evaluate the effect of the Russian interference on the outcome of the election. Please note: "We did not evaluate" is not the same thing as "There was no effect."
Trump supporters are now puffing out their chests and declaring that they didn't need the Russians to tell them that Hillary was a lying, murdering child molester. Never mind those "elitist" fact-checkers ... they just KNOW.
I'm sure they also believe that advertising has nothing to do with the reason they pay twice as much for brand-name cough medicine instead of the generic version that has the exact same ingredients. They just KNOW the brand name works better.
And Russian denials are made all the more effective by Trump, the president-elect, acting like a Soviet Stooge in denying the obvious.
Reading the comments to this article I have to conclude many of the commenters who belittle the US intelligence agencies are trolls for the Russians.
1
Your assertion that people who disagree with the official government version are commie stooges or Russian sympathizers would have played well with Old Joe McCarthy back in the 50's.
This labeling and name calling has become the standard response of the losers as they desperately attempt to rationalize their historic and well earned blowout.
The sooner the Dems come out of denial, the sooner they can move on. Personally, I'm not holding my breath on that happening any time soon.
This labeling and name calling has become the standard response of the losers as they desperately attempt to rationalize their historic and well earned blowout.
The sooner the Dems come out of denial, the sooner they can move on. Personally, I'm not holding my breath on that happening any time soon.
6
Russia backed Trump
Saudi Arabia, Qatar, islamist, china, australia, new zealand, canada, european union etc backed Clinton
Once again, the NYT and the political establishment are utterly corrupted and do not accept their defeat.
Just go over it, it is done you lost and freedom win :)
Saudi Arabia, Qatar, islamist, china, australia, new zealand, canada, european union etc backed Clinton
Once again, the NYT and the political establishment are utterly corrupted and do not accept their defeat.
Just go over it, it is done you lost and freedom win :)
6
This Russia hysteria reminds me of the hysteria worked up in 2002-3 against Saddam Hussein which led inexorably to the Iraq debacle.
This is the same CIA that said WMD was a 'slam dunk.' Remember?
One of my great concerns about Hillary Clinton was that early in her campaign she was taking aim at Russia in ways that seemed very dangerous. Now, the Democratic Party is covering its disgraceful failure to appeal to Americans with this blame-Russia campaign. Unfortunately, the mainstream media is helping to lead the charge.
This is the same CIA that said WMD was a 'slam dunk.' Remember?
One of my great concerns about Hillary Clinton was that early in her campaign she was taking aim at Russia in ways that seemed very dangerous. Now, the Democratic Party is covering its disgraceful failure to appeal to Americans with this blame-Russia campaign. Unfortunately, the mainstream media is helping to lead the charge.
7
Why the Russians didn't just give WikiLeaks deleted emails form Clinton's server if they wanted to influence the election - it would be much simpler?
1
If no crime in those mail's why they were deleted ;) who wrote all this messages? Trump, KGB, Putin him self? Or it was Hillary? Why you bothered who hacked instead of content of those mails and existence of them?
2
Many Americans believe the real story here is the content of the hacks. Very little has been written in the NYT about what information was actually released that allegedly had a damaging affect. I submit that maybe t is the content supplied that influences peoples opinions, not so much the messenger.
6
Then release your taxes commrade trump and put all this to rest.
5
Wow! The Russian leadership and Trump supporters agree. That fact seems to mean something to me. There are a vast number of people who call themselves Americans but, don't really know what that means.
4
There is one important factor that seems to be overlooked in all of this talk over the Russians hacking in order to influence the US elections. And that is that when the information obtained by the hacks were released, showing that the Clinton campaign was acting badly, and perhaps unlawfully towards the Sanders campaign, it was not seen as a major story, certainly not one that at all had the potential of influencing the actual election.
And the fact is that the matter of these hacks weren't at all mentioned by anyone analyzing what caused Clinton to lose. Even the Clinton campaign didn't mention the DNC being hacked as something to blame for their defeat. According to the Clinton campaign the main culprit was James Comey for a statement he made immediately prior to the election. So all the talk about the Russians influencing the outcome of the elections is simply not true and has no basis in fact.
In fact talk of the hacking influencing the elections did not begin until it was concluded that the Russians were behind it. So clearly the main issue on the part of the US government, and why Obama went so far as to retaliate, is not that the elections were the result of hacking, as much as it is that the Russians had the nerve to attempt to influence the elections.
And the fact is that the matter of these hacks weren't at all mentioned by anyone analyzing what caused Clinton to lose. Even the Clinton campaign didn't mention the DNC being hacked as something to blame for their defeat. According to the Clinton campaign the main culprit was James Comey for a statement he made immediately prior to the election. So all the talk about the Russians influencing the outcome of the elections is simply not true and has no basis in fact.
In fact talk of the hacking influencing the elections did not begin until it was concluded that the Russians were behind it. So clearly the main issue on the part of the US government, and why Obama went so far as to retaliate, is not that the elections were the result of hacking, as much as it is that the Russians had the nerve to attempt to influence the elections.
7
The report did NOT state that the hacking hsad influenced the election of Trump.
It also did not say that the hacking did not influence the outcome.
I personally think the false propaganda that was planted had more of an effect. You know, those stories about child-sex rings, Benghazi, etc.
I personally think the false propaganda that was planted had more of an effect. You know, those stories about child-sex rings, Benghazi, etc.
1
Yes we are anesthesized to hacking, prying, and planting disinformation by spies of many stripes including our supposed own. Of course, Trump will deny it; to do otherwise would delegitimize his Presidency. The scariest part of the whole thing is that here we have a President and his son in law close advisor that are controlled to some degree by huge amounts of loans made to them to finance their global real estate empires teetering on bankruptcy. These "loans" come from dictatorial Russian oligarchs and other global billionaires outside the control of laws of democratic societies.
6
Of course Russia actively attempted to influence the US election process, as does the US interfere with other countries election events. This is not the issue. The focus should be on what the Trump campaign knew, and when. If they are co-conspirators, that is a potential treasonous act. Follow the money trail and therefore linking to President elect Trump's failure to provide transparency of his financial dealings and income tax records.
4
Tell your local representative that you don't want Russia stealing your right to a fair election: http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/
Urgent greetings [representative's name].
I'm greatly troubled by the now irrefutable evidence that has been presented by the C.I.A., the F.B.I. and the National Security Agency reporting that the Russian government, under the direction of Vladimir Putin, used cyber-terrorism and other nefarious methods to influence and undermine the integrity of the recent general elections. Under these conditions, we the people of these united states can not be confident in the legitimacy of the results of these elections and respectfully demand a revote.
Many thanks for your immediate attention to this most severe attack on the foundation of our democratic process.
Urgent greetings [representative's name].
I'm greatly troubled by the now irrefutable evidence that has been presented by the C.I.A., the F.B.I. and the National Security Agency reporting that the Russian government, under the direction of Vladimir Putin, used cyber-terrorism and other nefarious methods to influence and undermine the integrity of the recent general elections. Under these conditions, we the people of these united states can not be confident in the legitimacy of the results of these elections and respectfully demand a revote.
Many thanks for your immediate attention to this most severe attack on the foundation of our democratic process.
2
In the midst of all this hoopla no one remembers to mention that all nations are involved in hacking. Every country's intelligence agencies are constantly trolling to gather information.
The fact that the Russian's were caught hacking the DNC is actually less egregious than our hacking of the personal cell phones of Chancellor Merkel and President Rousseff. If we got into their personal phones imagine what we're doing to less sophisticated nations?
We're told that Russia's motive wasn't information gathering, but was a plot from the Kremlin to 'influence our elections'. But the evidence of this is "trust me, we know." What was our motive in listening in on the conversations of two heads of state who are our allies? Has anyone in our government ever explained that?
Everyone is involved in spying and corporations do more of it than most governments. This OMG moment displayed in the press and on the Hill are way out of proportion to the actual facts. So what's really going on here? Can we get some real journalism to dig a little deeper and get beyond these orchestrated talking points?
The fact that the Russian's were caught hacking the DNC is actually less egregious than our hacking of the personal cell phones of Chancellor Merkel and President Rousseff. If we got into their personal phones imagine what we're doing to less sophisticated nations?
We're told that Russia's motive wasn't information gathering, but was a plot from the Kremlin to 'influence our elections'. But the evidence of this is "trust me, we know." What was our motive in listening in on the conversations of two heads of state who are our allies? Has anyone in our government ever explained that?
Everyone is involved in spying and corporations do more of it than most governments. This OMG moment displayed in the press and on the Hill are way out of proportion to the actual facts. So what's really going on here? Can we get some real journalism to dig a little deeper and get beyond these orchestrated talking points?
9
Hack the Office of Personnel, Obama twiddles his thumbs.
Hack the State Department, Obama twiddles his thumbs.
Hack the White House, Obama twiddles his thumbs.
Hack NOAA, Obama twiddles his thumbs.
Hack the USPS, Obama twiddles his thumbs.
Hack a dork like Podesta, with a password of p@ssword, and Obama declares you an enemy of the state, calls for hearings with the lack of intelligence crowd, forces the CIA to create a childlike book report on hacking, and generally mopes about.
Hack away at our government and Obama goes to play golf, but hack corrupt Democrats and his hackles get up.. No wonder most people don't pay attention.
Hack the State Department, Obama twiddles his thumbs.
Hack the White House, Obama twiddles his thumbs.
Hack NOAA, Obama twiddles his thumbs.
Hack the USPS, Obama twiddles his thumbs.
Hack a dork like Podesta, with a password of p@ssword, and Obama declares you an enemy of the state, calls for hearings with the lack of intelligence crowd, forces the CIA to create a childlike book report on hacking, and generally mopes about.
Hack away at our government and Obama goes to play golf, but hack corrupt Democrats and his hackles get up.. No wonder most people don't pay attention.
8
Trump's relationship and admiration for Putin goes back at least two years. Less than one year ago Trump on two ocassions invited Putin to release emails obtained by a cyber attack on our country. Putin accepted the invitation. Is it too much of a streach to believe Trump was colluding with Putin from the get-go to commit this act of war? We need a full, independant investigation now!
1
The Russians have interfered in the American election. Cybernetics misused, misunderstood, exponentially elevated, bewitched bothered and bewildered, and possibly criminal, or worse! For Putin it might even be seen as a kind of “cheap thrill”! But, why is anybody surprised let alone scandalized? Some feel passionately that he must be brought to account, even punished, but then How? All states do it. If America didn’t I would venture to say, it had acted without even a glimmer of intelligence. Americans habitually confront the world armed only with a semi-mythological reliance on pure-emotion, seldom mediated by reason. By the way, how do you punish a state if you believe it has been “naughty”? Send it to the back of the classroom and threaten to inform the International Court of Justice! America has always lived in a world of double-standards which might suggest a kind of hypocrisy! Nota bene: How much of the American reaction is intimately connected with Donald Trump, a man seen as even more of a scandal than even Putin? I might say more but there is a word limit I must respect.
2
Russians are warming up to the idea that the person behind the hacking is some 400 pounder, sitting on his bed in New Jersey. In other words they think Chris Christie is responsible.
2
Off the subject, I know, but I'd like to suggest that anti-Trump NYT readers refuse to comment on any article referring to Donald Trump, on January 20. Since he's illegitimate, illiterate, and ignorant, let's protest his inaugural spotlight, the way most artists have done, by refusing to pay attention. January 20. Don't be there, but be square.
3
Russia has for exactly 100 years been the straw man of choice for the U.S., the boogeyman par excellence, a convenient distraction. Keep dragging it out and ignore the dangers lurking within.
See Socrates from Verona's top recommended reply to Frank Bruni.
"Focus...Bruni...focus !"
http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/06/opinion/sunday/rumors-of-hillary-clint... - Readers' Picks
Ditto!
See Socrates from Verona's top recommended reply to Frank Bruni.
"Focus...Bruni...focus !"
http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/06/opinion/sunday/rumors-of-hillary-clint... - Readers' Picks
Ditto!
3
Of course Russia intelligence will deny and belittle; what else should we expect? They will not admit their activities so why bother giving the story front page coverage? More importantly, the troubling story is about Americans who are pleased at the hacks since they wanted to win and win at all cost. They clearly have not thought through all of the ramifications of what Russia did and what Trump requested that Russia do to help him win. The folly of all of this will make itself known soon enough. I can only hope that once they see the truth of their tacit admission that this slide away from the very democracy they say they cherish is "ok", they will admit this terrible mistake and join the rest of us to protect and defend the rights we have secured. What we had may not have been perfect, but at least we could have done something about it. We already see it; he'll play the crowd but do what he wants to further his own self-aggrandizement.
6
How do I know it's a massive and orchestrated propaganda campaign? Too many media are crying wolf about this in unison. There are numerous instances of US spying like this, all over a globe, mainstream media is not discussing this much. Who orders the media to shut up?When US spy agencies are spying in Germany, listening to chancellor's Angela Merkel phone for years- it's all good and dandy. This has been briefly mentioned and swiped under the rug. This supposed to be all right! In this DNC "hacking case", there is no proof provided. We just need to blindly trust the same spies who lied all along throughout history. How about a reason to begin the Vietnam war? How about the WMD in Iraq? How about a "no fly zone" when NATO actually was flying its planes in this zone to bomb in Lybia? Was this supposed to be a "no fly zone" like this? Or support given to Saudis and other monarchies in the Middle East. This hypocrisy is meant for those who can't connect dots and see all this as it is. Unfortunately, the majority of American public is unable to "connect the dots".
6
The Democrats need to explain to America and the world why they prefer World War III to taking responsibility for this horrible candidate and failed campaign
8
How ironic, Larry: with Trump in office, he of the sophomoric tweets and off-the-cuff braggadocio -- utterly ignorant of presidential decorum and fueled by a toxic mixture of immature, acute egoism and delusion -- the planet is far closer to WWW III than it has been in a very long time.
Let's say France hacked the RNC and found the same sort of sleazy activities. Then France gave the emails to a NYT reporter. Then the NYT published the emails and Trump loses the election. What would the conversation be then? Most likely Pulitzer Prize.
2
And at this juncture in history the Pulitzer would be justified.
1
The revelation that the Russians hacked the DNC emails is not particularly unexpected, is it? A few years ago, we learned, from breathless coverage by the New York Times, that the United States was listening in on the phone conversations of Angela Merkel, the elected Chancellor of one of our closest and most critical allies. The revelations by the Russian hackers would be even more troubling if they contained "disinformation," but the report seems not to dispute the accuracy but instead the bias in favor of embarrassing the Clinton campaign with its own conversations, rather than equal treatment for presumably comparably embarrassing Trump campaign emails. Since Mr. Trump seems able to tweet an uninterrupted flow of what would embarrass most people, and gain voters by doing so, the effect on the election was probably slight. The suggestion that RT swayed the Blue Curtain Trumpistas also seems a bit unlikely. RT might have unhinged some of the middle between Sanders and Clinton, but not the "deplorables." Makes good copy for awhile, and I guess that is what matters.
5
Anyone who reads this should also read the real report.
It's a pretty shoddy effort. Most of it isn't even about the hacking of the DNC/Podesta emails, and half of it is a bunch of whining about the existence of RT and Sputniknews. Yes, RT exists and provides Russian government-slanted viewpoints. It also provides a bunch of content from all sorts of dissidents of the right and left, which is most of what I find it useful for. Its coverage was strongly biased against Hillary, unsurprisingly.
There's nothing especially nefarious about RT - it's just a news site funded by a foreign government. Of course it's going to biased towards its sponsors, much like Radio Free Europe, US-funded NGOs, etc. None of this is a secret.
All news sources are propaganda of some sort or another, and you have to watch a bunch of different propaganda to come up with a reasonable approximation of the truth. Anyone who just reads the NYT and believes whatever it says is doing it wrong. It's my favorite source for the mainstream US liberal spin on news, but I balance it out with all sorts of other sources, including foreign ones with their own obvious biases like RT.
US intelligence agencies and mainstream media are clearly alarmed about how they no longer have a monopoly on information. Rather than people just believing whatever Dan Rather or the WaPo is saying, they can access a whole lot of perspectives. I think this is a good thing overall, despite the spread of echo chambers and fake news.
It's a pretty shoddy effort. Most of it isn't even about the hacking of the DNC/Podesta emails, and half of it is a bunch of whining about the existence of RT and Sputniknews. Yes, RT exists and provides Russian government-slanted viewpoints. It also provides a bunch of content from all sorts of dissidents of the right and left, which is most of what I find it useful for. Its coverage was strongly biased against Hillary, unsurprisingly.
There's nothing especially nefarious about RT - it's just a news site funded by a foreign government. Of course it's going to biased towards its sponsors, much like Radio Free Europe, US-funded NGOs, etc. None of this is a secret.
All news sources are propaganda of some sort or another, and you have to watch a bunch of different propaganda to come up with a reasonable approximation of the truth. Anyone who just reads the NYT and believes whatever it says is doing it wrong. It's my favorite source for the mainstream US liberal spin on news, but I balance it out with all sorts of other sources, including foreign ones with their own obvious biases like RT.
US intelligence agencies and mainstream media are clearly alarmed about how they no longer have a monopoly on information. Rather than people just believing whatever Dan Rather or the WaPo is saying, they can access a whole lot of perspectives. I think this is a good thing overall, despite the spread of echo chambers and fake news.
5
The biggest hole in this is the trope that 'perspectives' are information, that you derived the truth from being in a room with people yelling apposing viewpoints. You still choose who to listen to and that's at the core of your biases.
The US, of course has not record of trying to influence the governments of other countries...
4
Of course we do. Nobody is denying that.
We drop bombs on ISIS targets, but we still don't just allow them to drop bombs on us. Or let them get away with it when they do.
Or do you think that what happened on 9/11 or at the Boston Marathon was just quid pro quo?
We drop bombs on ISIS targets, but we still don't just allow them to drop bombs on us. Or let them get away with it when they do.
Or do you think that what happened on 9/11 or at the Boston Marathon was just quid pro quo?
1
I tend to agree that the Russians efforts were not as purposeful as the media is now portraying them, nor do I believe, that at least initially, Putin devoted any time to orchestrating a cyber attack. Now having said that, Trump has that rare ability, or maybe not so rare for him, of turning a plus into a huge negative. All he needed to say was, yes, he agrees with the report, set up a cyber force, and move on. But no, we will have another week of a mindless debate that detracts from the policies his administration wants to pursue. More and more his thin skin will be his undoing.
6
Show us the evidence. We are dealing with the same claims as before the election, except louder, and shriller, and made by guys with lots of gold braid on their sleeves.
3
So Times readers get a dose from the Times itself that the report contains NO CONCRETE EVIDENCE. The Times then continues as the article drags on, to make their case for the claims made by the US and its intel agencies. Sorry, there is no serious evidence. Get over it and lets move forward. Idfiots pushing this issue do not realize that they may very well screw up the chances in the mid term election just 22 months from now. One would think the DNC leaders, had they lived 100 years ago, would certainly reside in one of the finest insane asylums that money could buy..
3
The Right is finding it easy to dismiss - or even support - Russian hacking, not because they are going soft on communism, but because they seek to emulate Putin's style of governance. Russia has never been truly communist, and is now an authoritarian plutocracy / kleptocracy. It is a country of rigid control in which facts are dictated, dissent is lethally dangerous, and social Darwinism in which the strong and ruthless have risen to power, a one party state that plays lip service to rigid morality while spiritual cancer drives the majority of its citizens to numbed silence, despair and alcoholism.
2
John,
No, not even close.
No, not even close.
1
If Russia is working to influence our elections via TV shows, social media, and false storytelling, then our best defense is to educate ourselves, become willing to listen with an open mind to every side of important political arguments, and endeavor to think more critically about what we are being told. It's up to us... not the media, and certainly not the pols in DC.
1
Republicans used to have the dubious honor of doing nothing for the average American, and meddling in peoples private affairs. They have always needed an incoming Democrat to help do cleanup work for a couple years of the utter destruction they leave behind.
But one thing you could not question them on was their sense of patriotism and their love of the country.
Until now. At this point, they have lost that one in a very big way. They will stoop to any level, including borderline treasonous behavior to spite the Democrats. Amazingly depressing.
But one thing you could not question them on was their sense of patriotism and their love of the country.
Until now. At this point, they have lost that one in a very big way. They will stoop to any level, including borderline treasonous behavior to spite the Democrats. Amazingly depressing.
1
Why oh why do Trump and the Russians have the same talking points?
I think Trump is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Kremlin. I can see no other explanation for Trump's behavior.
His financial connections to the Russians seem more important to him than representing the citizens of the U.S.
Be very afraid.
I think Trump is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Kremlin. I can see no other explanation for Trump's behavior.
His financial connections to the Russians seem more important to him than representing the citizens of the U.S.
Be very afraid.
3
Who would expect anything other than denial from the Russian side? -- it's what they do best in situations like these, even when faced with incontrovertible evidence.
But it is Donald Trump, and those who agree with his public denouncement of the U.S. Intelligence communities who are the doing the most damage of all.
After reading so many of these comments I am convinced that most Americans regard the situation only in terms of black & white, or good & bad. And having no solid experience in dealing with the Russian/Soviet mentality, they are easily led to the most readily accessible notion of regarding this all as "anti-Russian hysteria".
Nothing could be further from the truth.
And anyone who has ever lived in (or near) a country dominated by Soviet ideology is not so quick to forget about it, or the fact that Vladimir Putin is an ex-KGB Officer and a Master at acquiring covert intelligence.
Americans would do best to take heed by reexamining the pages of the Cold War.
It never ended.
But it is Donald Trump, and those who agree with his public denouncement of the U.S. Intelligence communities who are the doing the most damage of all.
After reading so many of these comments I am convinced that most Americans regard the situation only in terms of black & white, or good & bad. And having no solid experience in dealing with the Russian/Soviet mentality, they are easily led to the most readily accessible notion of regarding this all as "anti-Russian hysteria".
Nothing could be further from the truth.
And anyone who has ever lived in (or near) a country dominated by Soviet ideology is not so quick to forget about it, or the fact that Vladimir Putin is an ex-KGB Officer and a Master at acquiring covert intelligence.
Americans would do best to take heed by reexamining the pages of the Cold War.
It never ended.
3
There were two reports. The one we saw did not have the sources and techniques named. The other had all the secrets the CIA, NSA and FBI used.
And now Trump knows all of sources and ways that his pal, Putin was busted.
Feeling a little queezy ??
The inauguration needs to be cancelled.
And now Trump knows all of sources and ways that his pal, Putin was busted.
Feeling a little queezy ??
The inauguration needs to be cancelled.
2
Look, Pearl Harbor has happened. No more hand wringing, no more equivocation. It's time to raise hands. Time to circle the wagons. Dems, GOP and independents. Who is on the side of America and who is not? If you're not for us, you're against us.
1
---The report provides no new evidence to support assertions that Moscow meddled ...but rests instead on what it describes as Moscow’s long record of trying to influence America’s political system.
So, in other words, they have no evidence other than "we think they did it"".
Please. God bless hackers for exposing US voters to the truth.
So, in other words, they have no evidence other than "we think they did it"".
Please. God bless hackers for exposing US voters to the truth.
3
You don't "Expose" voters to the truth by hiding what you know about Trump, which was probably far worse than anything Mrs. Clinton did.
ie;
Person "X" robs a bank but you only report the bubble gum that was placed under the desk by person "Y"
ie;
Person "X" robs a bank but you only report the bubble gum that was placed under the desk by person "Y"
The very good comments here providing analyses of this debacle are sufficient and hard to add onto. Clearly, the election suffered manipulation and clearly the Republican leadership is calm about turning a blind eye. Both Russia and the GOP have got their "man" in there. I'm sure there is chop-licking all the way from red-state America to red-'state' Russia.
That notwithstanding, the prime consideration remains: the hacking should not have fooled anyone. We saw Trump campaign, and heard him. We saw what he thinks and the level of intellect he displays. It is frightfully shameless and arrogant and in no way consistent with any view of how the US can be lead. A man with zero depth and portfolio for the job.
Yet he got a lot of votes - no majority but enough somehow to win. That is the real problem. No matter what game Russia plays, we have a population capable of selecting ... a Trump! There's the problem and it has little to do with Russia. All the computers in the Universe could disappear and we still have a population that is sucked in by the cheapest and simplest braggadocio the US has ever seen. How could Russia not be laughing?
That notwithstanding, the prime consideration remains: the hacking should not have fooled anyone. We saw Trump campaign, and heard him. We saw what he thinks and the level of intellect he displays. It is frightfully shameless and arrogant and in no way consistent with any view of how the US can be lead. A man with zero depth and portfolio for the job.
Yet he got a lot of votes - no majority but enough somehow to win. That is the real problem. No matter what game Russia plays, we have a population capable of selecting ... a Trump! There's the problem and it has little to do with Russia. All the computers in the Universe could disappear and we still have a population that is sucked in by the cheapest and simplest braggadocio the US has ever seen. How could Russia not be laughing?
3
@Marvinsky: your comment is easily the most intelligent and salient of the body of user replies here.
You accept this and blame the electorate. That in itself is a problem.
Mrs. Clinton received 2,800,000 more votes.
Try counting to Two Million, Eight Hundred Thousand.
Recall, as you count, that "Each" ballot was thrown in the garbage by the faithless in the Electoral College..
You may begin to perceive that something is rotten in the Electoral College, not with the electorate. We are not that stupid.
Mrs. Clinton received 2,800,000 more votes.
Try counting to Two Million, Eight Hundred Thousand.
Recall, as you count, that "Each" ballot was thrown in the garbage by the faithless in the Electoral College..
You may begin to perceive that something is rotten in the Electoral College, not with the electorate. We are not that stupid.
I have no doubt that Russian actors hack, phish, and infiltrate our Internet of Things way of living on every level, and they're not the only ones. The accumulation of successful hacks of data bases owned by major financial institutions, large retailers, and federal government's Office of Personnel (Mis) Management (including those related to security clearances) have not raised the level of sustained concern that they should have. One of the reasons is that no one is truly held responsible when these breaches occur, which produces little incentive for them to make the investments in cybersecurity that should be made, or even to contemplate the possibility that the Internet of Things should be rolled back in some areas (e.g. the electrical grid). That being the case, there is no excuse for anyone who has been alive for the last quarter century to put their trust in the security of e-mail servers or to trust that confidential information stored on networked servers will remain secure. Poor management of sensitive information by Clinton's campaign staff speaks to a level of incompetence that I find troubling, particularly as it extended a disturbing pattern of poor management shown by Clinton herself in the handling of sensitive official documents when she was Secretary of State. I blame them more than the Russians for exposing their embarrassing e-mails.
2
The Republican/Russian propaganda campaign against Hillary started three decades ago. When Bush had multiple embassy breaches and sixty death, there was hardly a peep from Congress. The same was true about the Bush Administration's use of private servers, and the deletion of millions of emails, no response. The tragedy at Benghazi was blown way out of proportion as was the use of her private server. Millions of dollars were wasted to trump up stories against her. This all became supplemented by an army of paid social network agents that were used to manufacture and spread malicious lies. No American should be happy that Mr. Trump publicly asked the Russians to hack Secretary Clinton's accounts then insulted our intelligence community when they identified them as a source of election interference. Until Mr. Trump releases his past taxes we have no idea how much in debt he is with the Russians.
2
I don't get it. Russians hacked into a server used by a major political party that was so unsecure that it practically had a "come and get me" sign on it. Doesn't this fall into the area of espionage that both countries have been engaged in forever? If they had actually tried to change or manipulate votes directly, then yes, I would be furious and calling for retribution, but I just don't understand all this outrage over the fact that they hacked into a trove of disgraceful emails at an opportune time.
The Russians hacked the Dem. server. The Democratic machinery was shown to be duplicitous and unethical, especially in their treatment of Bernie Sanders which probably had the effect of denying him the nomination. Out of the two acts, I find the latter far more shocking and disturbing than the Russians. It's also a badly needed wake up call on our need to treat the lack of cyber security as a matter of top national threat.
The Russians hacked the Dem. server. The Democratic machinery was shown to be duplicitous and unethical, especially in their treatment of Bernie Sanders which probably had the effect of denying him the nomination. Out of the two acts, I find the latter far more shocking and disturbing than the Russians. It's also a badly needed wake up call on our need to treat the lack of cyber security as a matter of top national threat.
2
At this juncture the point is not whether Russia interfered in the election, or if they did what effect it had on the outcome. The point is that this was Trump's first test of presidential leadership and he failed miserably. By reacting like a petulant child he made it very clear his priorities are himself and his own image, not what's best for the country. He is not a leader; he is not a statesman. He is a disgrace.
2
Hacking will be a no issue with DJT at the helm of US presidency after 20th of this month. A traitor from within is more dangerous than external threat and the US is doomed and the end of Pax Americana is near.
1
One word...one name ...to add to the dire equation. While all are focused on Russia and its game changing and aggressive moves...Putin, and his power hunger...Trump, and his ignorance of how to be even a decent man for the Presidency of the USA... one word, one name mentioned far too seldom: Breitbart. Breitbart. Breitbart. Breitbart.
4
I have a suspicion that U.S. intelligence services responsible for the report would already be screaming about hard evidence of Russians meddling with the elections had they poses any proof. Or perhaps there is a reason why U.S. can't make the proofs from its classified files public. Because, perhaps, it may cause severe damage to the NSA and alike agencies; like, maybe, it'll reveal all the illegal and covert ways the C.I.A. itself quagmired in.
America has had it to easy, and now we join the rest of the world.
Though I am fearful of a Trump presidency new world oder, I am more fearful of the ease it takes with new social media tools to spread propaganda and miss information to the world wide masses in just seconds.
Though I am fearful of a Trump presidency new world oder, I am more fearful of the ease it takes with new social media tools to spread propaganda and miss information to the world wide masses in just seconds.
2
@bjones: exactly, and even more so, how the vast bulk of our populace seems to believe anything they read, with no concept of applying critical thinking.
Information Operations are a form of warfare.
In this case both the Russians and the Republicans did it masterfully.
Dirty tricks and disinformation (mud slinging) are as old as the US.
Add a tone deaf candidate with poor research.............
In this case both the Russians and the Republicans did it masterfully.
Dirty tricks and disinformation (mud slinging) are as old as the US.
Add a tone deaf candidate with poor research.............
1
Since the fall of the USSR, a generation of Americans trained to blindly hate Russia have found themselves rudderless and bereft. Oh, they tried to find a new enemy. Iraq. Iran. Isis. ZIKA and EBOLA but these were mere flings; dalliances unable to fill the void left by the Big Break up.
So here we are, back in a hate/fear relationship with our ex.
Home, sweet home-ski.
We have our lost partner back.
And now we can fear, hate, and scapegoat all our ills in the manner to which we have become accustomed.
Mazel Tov! Have a happy reunion.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
So here we are, back in a hate/fear relationship with our ex.
Home, sweet home-ski.
We have our lost partner back.
And now we can fear, hate, and scapegoat all our ills in the manner to which we have become accustomed.
Mazel Tov! Have a happy reunion.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
2
In light of the NIC report, there are now some additional questions that I think should be explored and answered: 1) what does Trump know about the hacking? 2) when did he know it? 3) what or who was the source of the information? and 4) why does he continue to defend Vladimir Putin?
2
Sure they did it, and why not? The election directly affected their national interest. Too bad we can't retaliate in kind. Their "democracy" is a sham.
I'm convinced his tax returns would have revealed Trump is deep in the Russians' pocket. They have their puppet. Now we get to see how Putin pulls the strings.
I'm convinced his tax returns would have revealed Trump is deep in the Russians' pocket. They have their puppet. Now we get to see how Putin pulls the strings.
1
Reality check media does great job at changing the story. What ever happen to sending 17 million illegal alleins back. All talk no action is whats happening
1
Interesting column by Russian expert Stephen Cohen
"Hysteria over Russia’s alleged hacking of the 2016 presidential election may make this US-Russian crisis more dangerous than the 1962 Cuban missile crisis.
https://www.thenation.com/article/did-putin-really-launch-a-cyber-pearl-...
Is this where our media and the Intelligence Agencies are leading this country?
"Hysteria over Russia’s alleged hacking of the 2016 presidential election may make this US-Russian crisis more dangerous than the 1962 Cuban missile crisis.
https://www.thenation.com/article/did-putin-really-launch-a-cyber-pearl-...
Is this where our media and the Intelligence Agencies are leading this country?
1
One of the most incoherent reports I have ever read in the Times. It is a collection of partially selected quotations along with mainly anti-Russian conclusions.
In July 2016, Trump asked Putin to intercept in the Elections and he did. I demand a new election, Putin along with Don the Con compromised our election. I also demand to see Trump and his campaign managers tax returns...NOW...
2
The funny thing is that now with all this effort and money poured into the idea to run everyone's lives for them pushed and promoted by globalists and socialists of various stripes it's the people who had the final say and they chose to keep our national sovereignty, our rights, our freedom, and our U.S. Constitution by electing Donald J. Trump. Communist traitor coming out of the woodwork to decry, condemn, scream, holler, protest, cry and whine even before Trump is even sworn in are making certain that the left will be more than well remembered for the 2018 midterms and the 2020 general election. I say let them expose themselves. Give them a platform so their betrayal is never forgotten and point to it from here to eternity. With any luck we'll not see them in public office again for at least another 30 years as a result.
In the mean time, say hello to our new President on 20 January 2017, President Donald J. Trump. :o)
In the mean time, say hello to our new President on 20 January 2017, President Donald J. Trump. :o)
1
Actually the report invites close reading. When you do that, the media reports of the report invite ridicule. Absolutely.
The report uses think-tank-speak (professional gobbledygook) to lend force to what are very limited and weak conjectures, while offering no evidence a judge would accept in a US court of law. Then, the media in it's infinite wisdom completely overlooks the think-tank-speak, and simply runs with sound bites. So, the media headline becomes: "Intelligence Experts Have High Confidence blah blah blah ...."
In fact the report walks a very tight and self-conscious line, offering up a definition of "high confidence" that smacks very much of the fact that the authors know damned well the term will be misused, and they don't want responsibility for that misuse:
"High confidence generally indicates that the judgements are based on high quality information from multiple sources. High confidence in a judgement does not imply that the assessment is a fact or a certainty; such judgements could be wrong."
To ordinary people, high confidence does not mean "uncertain." But to the CIA it does. And this is why ridicule is absolutely appropriate.
The report uses think-tank-speak (professional gobbledygook) to lend force to what are very limited and weak conjectures, while offering no evidence a judge would accept in a US court of law. Then, the media in it's infinite wisdom completely overlooks the think-tank-speak, and simply runs with sound bites. So, the media headline becomes: "Intelligence Experts Have High Confidence blah blah blah ...."
In fact the report walks a very tight and self-conscious line, offering up a definition of "high confidence" that smacks very much of the fact that the authors know damned well the term will be misused, and they don't want responsibility for that misuse:
"High confidence generally indicates that the judgements are based on high quality information from multiple sources. High confidence in a judgement does not imply that the assessment is a fact or a certainty; such judgements could be wrong."
To ordinary people, high confidence does not mean "uncertain." But to the CIA it does. And this is why ridicule is absolutely appropriate.
12
It's perfectly clear why Trump feels a simpatico with Putin. He sees himself as a mirror image of Putin and he emulates Putin's power. What's concerning is Trump enjoys almost complete impunity to act as he pleases, given the Republican control of Congress and the prospect that congressional Republicans will ignore any of his indiscretions and unethical financial entanglements. Putin rules Russia by fear. Trump admires that and, given his thin-skinned, vindictive persona, he will use Putin's methods to guide his presidency through intimidation. Chuck Schumer, for all his moxie and willingness to do battle with Trump, will need help from congressional Republicans who have the mettle to stand up to their party leader There has to be a tipping point where they can no longer stand idly by while their wannabe emperor tramples the presidency and the constitution.
1
Without evidence one has to take the Administration's claims about Russian on faith something a Free Press and the public is not supposed to do. Furthermore, by revealing corruption albeit selectively at the DNC if allegations are true and if the intelligence report is to believed the Russians did us a service by uncovering valuable information which would otherwise not be revealed. This revelation was only possible according to the report because of shamelessly Lax DNC security namely DNC staff succumbing to phishing examples of which I deal with routinely on at least a monthly basis without problems. To be clear I did not and don't support the Trump administration. I in truth was unhappy about the choice.
Much more troubling than providing true information embarrassing to one side was the rampant voter suppression confirmed in Michigan where Wayne County had 97% alleged defective machines and suggested by exit polls In Florida, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and North Carolina the exit polls were statistically discrepant from the final results. The extraordinary comments by Comey denounced by Paul Krugman in the Times, the discrepancy between exit polls at the state level and the election results, and the lack of rudimentary scrutiny of discrepant election results make it hard for a dispassionate observer to believe the U.S. is a democracy even at the level of reliably counting its votes.
Much more troubling than providing true information embarrassing to one side was the rampant voter suppression confirmed in Michigan where Wayne County had 97% alleged defective machines and suggested by exit polls In Florida, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and North Carolina the exit polls were statistically discrepant from the final results. The extraordinary comments by Comey denounced by Paul Krugman in the Times, the discrepancy between exit polls at the state level and the election results, and the lack of rudimentary scrutiny of discrepant election results make it hard for a dispassionate observer to believe the U.S. is a democracy even at the level of reliably counting its votes.
4
We are becoming a nation of MEN*, not a nation of laws. The rules which apply to the little people are waved for the powerful and well-connected.
Expedience and dominance have replaced deliberation and comity as the ruling values of our political process.
* The choice of gender is deliberate. Trump's cabinet is less diverse than ANY in recent memory.
Expedience and dominance have replaced deliberation and comity as the ruling values of our political process.
* The choice of gender is deliberate. Trump's cabinet is less diverse than ANY in recent memory.
1
This article "normalizes" a foreign government hacking (aka breaking and entering computers), stealing and then publishing confidential email communications of a major political party and paying people to spread false allegations and fake news about political candidates on social media in an attempt to influence the votes of Americans in a close presidential election. It essentially says, "Nothing new here. It's been going on for decades. The US has been doing it to other countries. No big deal." Just more old-fashioned dirty tricks updated with new technology. Well, almost every national election in recent times has been close, very close and especially in what we call "swing states" every vote counts and turns into electoral votes that actually win the election. All it takes is ONE vote in a populous swing state to decide an election. So do fake news "scandals" and negative leaked emails about one of the two presidential candidates actually influence votes and elections? Of course they do, just like the negative ads and unsubstantiated accusations the candidates themselves, their parties and PACs produce. The "swiftboating" and Willie Horton ads, stealing and publishing a candidate's psychiatric medical records, secretly recording a candidate's embarrassing private comments to supporters influences votes. Such "dirty tricks" may be common but should never be accepted especially when a foreign government is doing them. Stop normalizing!
8
What do you expect from Russia? They're playing the same sort of game their then-buddies the Germans played in the 1930s in planting a fifth column in the countries they ended up occupying later. Since Americans never heard of Vidkun Quisling (Norway) and Pierre Laval (Vichy France), we're getting to relive them with Trump/Pence and a legislative branch either paid off (family members appointed to the Cabinet) or blackmailed into submission.
When you don't learn your history, bad history repeats itself.
When you don't learn your history, bad history repeats itself.
3
There's nothing in the report except amateurish writing by Tom Clancy wannabes. The only page with indisputable fact is the one "intentionally left blank".
So yes, we do need to mock it and look elsewhere i.e. inside the Democratic camp for disgruntled leakers/willful clickers of malware mails. But does Obama-loving NYT dare go that path? Where's James Risen when you need him? Both most likely cut wink-and-nod deals to avoid prosecution for previous acts of CIA leaks. Hence this brave show of support and related amateur fiction.
Been saying it for over a year: smell coffee please, NYT. Your readers are not here to accept stuff that essentially says "because I say so". Got that? No? Ok, then let's all hear Putin mock (and ROFL).
So yes, we do need to mock it and look elsewhere i.e. inside the Democratic camp for disgruntled leakers/willful clickers of malware mails. But does Obama-loving NYT dare go that path? Where's James Risen when you need him? Both most likely cut wink-and-nod deals to avoid prosecution for previous acts of CIA leaks. Hence this brave show of support and related amateur fiction.
Been saying it for over a year: smell coffee please, NYT. Your readers are not here to accept stuff that essentially says "because I say so". Got that? No? Ok, then let's all hear Putin mock (and ROFL).
4
While Obama and the Intelligence agencies of America are so worried about non-government entity is hacked for being witless to their own security, the Russian army has deployed missiles capable of carrying nuclear warheads to war-torn Syria,security experts said the missiles were the most advanced ever produced by Russia and had been sent to Syria on a "dry run".Another chapter in the disastrous legacy of President Obama.
1
@Harif2: being so quick to blindly blame President Obama for anything and everything, you best hurry to also accuse him of making the Sun rise a bit later tomorrow; Inauguration Day quickly approaches, after which you'll need to find another hobby.
US media and US agencies are exposing the fact USA is a Banana ( Almonds) republic by such statements and articles. Compare this to Indian election. ford foundation, evangelical churches , thousands of NGO's , local churches in Sunday sermons funded by USA and west could not succeed in preventing MODI come to power. US$ 2,5 billion is the money spent on men , women, machinery of Anti MODI campaign. US citizens may need a good training to think and analyze what is good for them and as a Nation , if you all believe Russia where in most cannot even speak or understand English , can pull off such a feat in stealth.
As best I can tell...
1. If you don't have evidence, just say you do have evidence but that it's all in the "classified" report -- which, of course, you're not free to share with the person who's pointed out that you have no evidence.
2. If it's difficult or impossible to come up with evidence for a particular fact (such as the connection, if any, between private hackers and a foreign government), just point out this difficulty or impossibility and you'll be allowed to declare the point established without any evidence whatsoever.
3. If you make an accusation against someone and he vehemently denies it, your accusation must be true. In other words, since some people who vehemently deny accusations are nonetheless guilty as charged, it follows that ALL people who vehemently deny accusations are guilty as charged.
1. If you don't have evidence, just say you do have evidence but that it's all in the "classified" report -- which, of course, you're not free to share with the person who's pointed out that you have no evidence.
2. If it's difficult or impossible to come up with evidence for a particular fact (such as the connection, if any, between private hackers and a foreign government), just point out this difficulty or impossibility and you'll be allowed to declare the point established without any evidence whatsoever.
3. If you make an accusation against someone and he vehemently denies it, your accusation must be true. In other words, since some people who vehemently deny accusations are nonetheless guilty as charged, it follows that ALL people who vehemently deny accusations are guilty as charged.
2
i believe you are attempting to apply logical science, but remember that for a conditional statement to be true, both the conjecture and the conclusion must be true. Even if the conditional statement is true, that does not mean the inverse statement is true.
1
"The public report did not include concrete evidence on the agencies’ sources and methods, details that intelligence officials said were in a classified version."
Well, how convenient! We have to take the government's word on faith.
I don't.
No one is asking the spooks to reveal their sources or methods. But if the government wants anyone beyond credulous Clintonistas and knee-jerk Cold Warriors to believe them, they will have to lay out their evidence. E-v-i-d-e-n-c-e. There has been none to date.
Perhaps the Russians have meddled in our internal politics, as we have meddled in the internal politics of countless nations. But this "trust me" business is nonsense. The assertion that the evidence can't be provided without compromising sources and methods (as Dick Cheney did to Valerie Plame, by the way) is laughable.
Well, how convenient! We have to take the government's word on faith.
I don't.
No one is asking the spooks to reveal their sources or methods. But if the government wants anyone beyond credulous Clintonistas and knee-jerk Cold Warriors to believe them, they will have to lay out their evidence. E-v-i-d-e-n-c-e. There has been none to date.
Perhaps the Russians have meddled in our internal politics, as we have meddled in the internal politics of countless nations. But this "trust me" business is nonsense. The assertion that the evidence can't be provided without compromising sources and methods (as Dick Cheney did to Valerie Plame, by the way) is laughable.
Interesting how the Russians deny what they don't like just like Trump. Perhaps he went to some type of finishing school there.
1
If Hillary had been elected and this was revealed, the people who now deride it as nonsense, especially Republican House members, would be calling for special investigations, trying to postpone the inauguration, and having lawyers brought in to lodge criminal charges against her.
For those who loudly chanted "lock her up", apparently sedition, conflict of interest, and treason are OK as long as your name isn't Clinton.
For those who loudly chanted "lock her up", apparently sedition, conflict of interest, and treason are OK as long as your name isn't Clinton.
3
The first question the Congressional committee investigating the alleged Russian election cyber security hacking ought to ask is which other countries did our security agencies also detect allegedly intervening in the campaign on behalf of the Clinton bid. I can name at least 4 countries, not to mention at least 3 international organizations, wanting Clinton to win, and I am sure there were pro-Clinton international business interests helping her campaign.
Were any of them spying on or wiretapping the Trump campaign phones,or his staff meetings or paying moles to disrupt his rallies? Did any nation bug the debate committee to pass pre-debate the questions asked during the debates to Mrs. Clinton?
I don't expect the Obama administration to investigate the other foreign government election meddling on behalf of Hillary Clinton, but the Times ought to do so for its credibility. Because counter to the view of Times executive editor Dean Baquet, Watergate discoverykind of reporting political scandals needs journalists pursuing leaks on the ground. Computers and digital research are no substitutes for experienced journalist investigators out on assigned political beats.
Were any of them spying on or wiretapping the Trump campaign phones,or his staff meetings or paying moles to disrupt his rallies? Did any nation bug the debate committee to pass pre-debate the questions asked during the debates to Mrs. Clinton?
I don't expect the Obama administration to investigate the other foreign government election meddling on behalf of Hillary Clinton, but the Times ought to do so for its credibility. Because counter to the view of Times executive editor Dean Baquet, Watergate discoverykind of reporting political scandals needs journalists pursuing leaks on the ground. Computers and digital research are no substitutes for experienced journalist investigators out on assigned political beats.
1
Considering how often we pull much worse than this - ask the Australians about 1975, or the Iranians about 1956 - all the whining is downright sanctimonious.
Besides, what the Russians are accused of doing is releasing true information about Hillary Clinton and her associates that voters considered interesting and relevant. It's really hard to see that as wrong. At least if you have morals.
Besides, what the Russians are accused of doing is releasing true information about Hillary Clinton and her associates that voters considered interesting and relevant. It's really hard to see that as wrong. At least if you have morals.
4
The headline of this article bothers me. Why can't the New York Times have a headline " Trump ridicules the US...". Russia is just repeating what Donald trump has been saying for months. The GOP is right in that maybe liberals are too politically correct. Even Clapper testified that if this was reversed and Russia hacked the republicans the outcry would be much different.
Russia supports right-wing political parties across Europe. Trump supports Putin. Bannon, an "economic nationalist" is in the White House. Global fascism, to include the US, Russia, The French National Front, Egypt, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Likud, Brexit, and future parties throughout a destabilized world - would meet little resistance.
Chinese businessmen are drinking $2000 bottles of wine in the Waldorf-Astoria with Jared Kushner. Who speaks for the middle class? Who speaks for the wretched of the earth?
Chinese businessmen are drinking $2000 bottles of wine in the Waldorf-Astoria with Jared Kushner. Who speaks for the middle class? Who speaks for the wretched of the earth?
2
Oh. Didn't you know??? ---- It's Donald Trump.
He's the real friend of the disgruntled White working-class, whom he forgot as soon as they gave him the election.
The middle-class bever even entered his thoughts.
He's the real friend of the disgruntled White working-class, whom he forgot as soon as they gave him the election.
The middle-class bever even entered his thoughts.
1
So the Great Red Scare rises again, suddenly resurrected --only this time it's not the Right that jolts this moribund monster back to life, but the Left! The Left which, only a few years ago, openly mocked Romney when he raised threats about Russia ("the 1980s are calling").
Why the New Red Scare? It's awfully convenient, isn't it, to have hysteria fixed on the Evil Empire--instead of the terrible establishment candidate, Clinton, who is perhaps fittingly, as much as a moribund propped apparatus as the Evil Russkies themselves.
So what's the argument exactly? That if the electorate only remained ignorant of the corruption, Clinton would have been voted in? It's not the message that's evil, it's the messenger?
And ever heard of people in glass houses? Obama flew to England to attempt to sway voters to vote against Brexit, & vigorously attempted to sway the Israeli election. We have a long history of this sort of stuff. It's ok for us, but no one else?
Even if it's true they the Evil Reds tried to anoint Trump for their own nefarious ends, exactly how was this accomplished? Through revealing TRUE emails? The mainstream media attempted to manipulate voters through incessant propaganda, eg in its treatment of Sanders. The DNC establishment propped up Clinton. That's ok?
This is a way to sow chaos, like a giant wrecking ball, & for establishment Dems to avoid blame for their own failures as leaders. Exactly like the delusional Republicans when Obama was elected.
Why the New Red Scare? It's awfully convenient, isn't it, to have hysteria fixed on the Evil Empire--instead of the terrible establishment candidate, Clinton, who is perhaps fittingly, as much as a moribund propped apparatus as the Evil Russkies themselves.
So what's the argument exactly? That if the electorate only remained ignorant of the corruption, Clinton would have been voted in? It's not the message that's evil, it's the messenger?
And ever heard of people in glass houses? Obama flew to England to attempt to sway voters to vote against Brexit, & vigorously attempted to sway the Israeli election. We have a long history of this sort of stuff. It's ok for us, but no one else?
Even if it's true they the Evil Reds tried to anoint Trump for their own nefarious ends, exactly how was this accomplished? Through revealing TRUE emails? The mainstream media attempted to manipulate voters through incessant propaganda, eg in its treatment of Sanders. The DNC establishment propped up Clinton. That's ok?
This is a way to sow chaos, like a giant wrecking ball, & for establishment Dems to avoid blame for their own failures as leaders. Exactly like the delusional Republicans when Obama was elected.
6
Amazing to see RT now joining Fox News and Limbaugh in being portrayed as bad actors trying to hurt this country. Every hacking incident should be treated with the same scrutiny. If President Obama knew about this Russian meddling months ago, he should have reacted promptly because this late reaction looks suspicious. When he accuses "some people in this country of trusting Putin more than they trust their fellow American Democrats" it is insulting. No, Mr. President, we do not trust Putin, but it has become increasingly difficult to trust you, your party, and the people you put in charge. Lois Lerner who took advantage of her IRS position to wrongly investigate Conservative groups was never disciplined. She was allowed to quietly retire with a $165,000 annual pension. In many occasions you vowed to "go to the bottom of things" and nothing happened. So, pardon me, but I no longer trust.
5
I want to see all the evidence of Russian hacking. Just as much as I want to see Trump's, his cabinet nominees', and all of Congress's tax returns.
2
Glenn Greenwald has an interesting point of view on the subject; he thinks both sides, Democrat and Republican, have switched positions on this deal. For political reasons, and it includes the NYT to which I subscribe. If this is the case the Russians, including Putin are rolling around laughing their you know what off. And I think Greenwald, safely living in Brazil, may very well have a point. Trump, the idiot, may actually be correct; even a stopped clock is right once every 24 hours
4
Primary rigging did not work (eventually).
Insulting Berners and Trump supporters did not work.
Recount did not work.
Pressuring electors did not work.
Expelling diplomats did not work.
This Russian scare is another attempt to delegitimize the election results and coronate Hillary.
Desperation, thy name is Democrat.
Insulting Berners and Trump supporters did not work.
Recount did not work.
Pressuring electors did not work.
Expelling diplomats did not work.
This Russian scare is another attempt to delegitimize the election results and coronate Hillary.
Desperation, thy name is Democrat.
5
I don't know that "Desperation" is the sole domain of the Democrats.
Republicans have also been employing some rather questionable devices of their own -- whether it's trying to repeal the Voting Rights Act in several southern states (TEXAS, among them), or resorting to their usual divisive tactics to maintain control in the government.
Quick reminder.
They didn't have too many kind words to say abiout Bernie Sanders either, until they started using his campaign slogans to drive the wedge deeper in the DNC.
Republicans have also been employing some rather questionable devices of their own -- whether it's trying to repeal the Voting Rights Act in several southern states (TEXAS, among them), or resorting to their usual divisive tactics to maintain control in the government.
Quick reminder.
They didn't have too many kind words to say abiout Bernie Sanders either, until they started using his campaign slogans to drive the wedge deeper in the DNC.
1
@N. Smith
The SC ruled in favor of Texas on the voting restrictions, some of which is common sense -- we claim to be a lawful country but do not want a voter ID law ?
Texas has an excuse of being red country, for deriding Sanders. What excuse do the blue states have, that they rigged democracy against him ?
The SC ruled in favor of Texas on the voting restrictions, some of which is common sense -- we claim to be a lawful country but do not want a voter ID law ?
Texas has an excuse of being red country, for deriding Sanders. What excuse do the blue states have, that they rigged democracy against him ?
The important issue is not what the Russians did but why they did. Anti-Americanism is the only ideology left to sustain the auticratic regime in Russia after the failure of Communism. Instead of RT, CIA researchers should read the Russian-language media (hopefully they have somebody who can do it) in order to understand the venomous hatred of the Putin regime for the US, which is blamed for the disintegration of the USSR. So do Trump voters seriously believe that Putin would do us a "favor" by exposing DNC? Russia favored Trump because they believed - rightly - that he would be a disastrous president who would weaken America's standing in the world.
1
Divided America is an easy pray for dictators like Putin. His billionaire oligarchs, as instructed by Putin, are carrying smart strategy of helping, and financially engaging, popular western business people and billionaires so they can influence internal politics through them. Trump is their best prize so far.
@carolinajoe,
Thanks for helping to divide America, and make it easier for Putin to sweep in.
Why do I say that? Every one of your comments shows that even though Trump is your president, you have no plans to honor it, and will negatively comment about it when ever possible. Metaphor, "you are the lion that killed the prey, Putin is the hyena waiting to jump in when the time is right!"
Thanks for helping to divide America, and make it easier for Putin to sweep in.
Why do I say that? Every one of your comments shows that even though Trump is your president, you have no plans to honor it, and will negatively comment about it when ever possible. Metaphor, "you are the lion that killed the prey, Putin is the hyena waiting to jump in when the time is right!"
2
On January 20th Trump will be president. I think we will all show him all the respect and honor he has shown to women, Muslims, Hispanics, his wives, and the contractors who have worked for him.
1
We have an illegitimate president elect, period. How can you even begin to argue that the results would have been no different if Putin did not help?
It's not just Russians ridiculing the Russian hack claim. All of us Americans who have learned to have no trust in the media or the so-called (but rarely confirmed) "intelligence community" are joining the ridiculing also. The Russians? Really? Claiming it was the Martians would at least be comical instead of just merely pathetic.
4
You mean you don't trust FOX? Come on now....
I can smell the yellow cake and the WMDs. RT definitely had their fingers on the pulse. As far as I can see Russia's influence on the election had a minuscule effect. Is it something to look at carefully in the future yes. The NYT is playing this up because they feel guilty for all the misinformation they served up to their readers during the election, which I think was far more damaging to Clinton's campaign than Putin's handiwork.
4
Russia committed a cyber attack on the U.S. and Trump condones it, being the #2 Beneficiary, right after #1 Beneficiary: Vlad Putin.
So now Russia wins, and the Puppet Master installs his Puppet on the Throne.
If our Congress condones this blatant attack on American sovereignty, we are done for. Trump expects us all to raise our arms and "Hail Trump!" like his other supporters. This course of action is starting to look a lot like treason. "When Fascism Comes To America..."
So now Russia wins, and the Puppet Master installs his Puppet on the Throne.
If our Congress condones this blatant attack on American sovereignty, we are done for. Trump expects us all to raise our arms and "Hail Trump!" like his other supporters. This course of action is starting to look a lot like treason. "When Fascism Comes To America..."
2
Until Mr. Trump releases his tax returns allows an accounting of money through the shell corporations we will believe he is indebted to the Russians in some dangerous way that may put our country at risk. This is not a joke. It is not reassuring that Trump believes Julian Assange is more trustworthy on the topic of hacking than our dedicated government intelligence professionals in the United States. Trump is hiding something.
2
According to Trump, the declassified report proved that Russian hacking had no effect on the outcome of the presidential election. The report did no such thing and did not even mention the subject of the political ramifications. Trump is doing what he did during the campaign - just make stuff up to serve his brand of politics. Let's face it, Trump is woefully naïve about Putin's motives or he has ulterior motives. Unfortunately, the founding fathers didn't anticipate a president-elect who would pose a national security threat so there is no recourse in the presently poisonous political atmosphere.
1
Notice the similarity between Pushkov's statement and Trump. They both assert that the CIA can't be trusted because of Iraq. If you followed the CIA assessment on WMDs, you would remember that Dick Cheney's office effectively edited the final report to distort their findings. Yet they both use the same ploy. Why? Russia knows its false even if Trump doesn't. This is a red flag of collusion.
1
The Russians weren't ridiculing the idea when they were celebrating in Moscow and toasting themselves for having "won the election."
2
Right...despite all of these history books and films showing us the many ways the great empires dating back to Roman times have lied to and manipulated their people, we somehow live in the "post"-truth era now. Don't be anything less than credulous towards the gospel of the clandestine intelligence agencies, and make sure to constellate any rational counter-argument with the Trump hate meme. (Operation Mockingbird).
The Russians are laughing at us with good reason. I am sure the rest of the world is too. They want concrete evidence of their involvement in Donald Trump's winning the presidency and of course there is none. We cannot provide them with something we do not have. Innocent until proven guilty.
3
Fox News is also debunking and ridiculing the report. Fox has long aped Pravda in its methods, content is new.
Really? ... FOX News???
As if that's some kind of lodestar by which to make a comparison.
As if that's some kind of lodestar by which to make a comparison.
1
Well if FAUX "News" says it then it must be true!
I have no doubt that every single commenter here who says THERE IS NO PROOF RUSSIA HELPED TRUMP is more than willing to swallow every single word uttered on FOX like it is straight from the mouth of Jesus.
I have no doubt that every single commenter here who says THERE IS NO PROOF RUSSIA HELPED TRUMP is more than willing to swallow every single word uttered on FOX like it is straight from the mouth of Jesus.
1
Another story here says Trump supporters for the most part don't mind that a foreign government interfered in an American election.
Good to know this about them.
Good to know this about them.
WHAT??? Did you think Trump was joking when he said: "I love the poorly educated".
He should.....They're the only ones who bought his act.
Now look at where we're at because of them.
He should.....They're the only ones who bought his act.
Now look at where we're at because of them.
1
Right...despite all of these history books and films showing us the many ways the great empires dating back to Roman times have lied and manipulated their people, we someone live in the "post"-truth era now. Don't be anything less than credulous towards the gospel of the clandestine intelligence agencies, and make sure to constellate any rational counter-argument with the Trump hate meme. (Operation Mockingbird).
1
Trump will use his position to enrich himself. Russia will help him because he already have ties with Russian oligarchs.
2
Hacking is not a misinformation campaign. Hacking is when someone hacks into a private electronic account, and steals, implants, or modifies information. My brain was not "hacked" by Russians prior to Election Day. Fox news didn't hack me either. Or the Daily KOS. Nobody "hacked" my brain, and changed the way I voted. No one. Stop conflating the term "hacking".
Hillary Clinton and the Democrats lost the election because they took it for granted they'd win. They miscalculated, and lost to an unqualified buffoon.
Hillary Clinton and the Democrats lost the election because they took it for granted they'd win. They miscalculated, and lost to an unqualified buffoon.
3
I guess Trump's supporters just don't see how important it is that the first female President should be a Democrat, not a Republican like Palin or Rice.
They can probably understand why Clinton's supporters are outraged, but don't share this outrage in a visceral way.
They are probably aware that e.g. Kennedy openly invited Soviet interference in the US elections by going to Moscow and meeting Andropov and there are always are numerous foreign powers that actively seek to influence the US elections. However, they are unwilling to see that this time it's different, because it's about taking a stand against fascism and in favor of marginalized groups like the Clintons.
I think they should be made to care, with mandatory sensitivity training.
They can probably understand why Clinton's supporters are outraged, but don't share this outrage in a visceral way.
They are probably aware that e.g. Kennedy openly invited Soviet interference in the US elections by going to Moscow and meeting Andropov and there are always are numerous foreign powers that actively seek to influence the US elections. However, they are unwilling to see that this time it's different, because it's about taking a stand against fascism and in favor of marginalized groups like the Clintons.
I think they should be made to care, with mandatory sensitivity training.
It's no secret that Russia tries to influence other countries. I guess if people want to waste time and money on Red scare hysteria, they can. Seems to me better to focus on more important issues.
We have a lot of issues that it might be helpful to work with Russia on. Many seem not to have noticed, but Ukraine is an economic basket case and has a corrupt, ineffective government. We and the European Union might be able to work with Russia to stop all fighting there and get the country back together again. Ukraine's economy is much more dependent on Russia than on the West.
Same with Syria. We have no influence there anymore. None. We stood on our morals and our supposed exceptionalism to demand that our wishes be followed. A more pragmatic stance would have served us better.
Donald Trump has the right idea. If we treat Russia as an evil enemy, we will get nowhere. Russia is a poor country, relatively speaking, and has plenty of its own issues to deal with. But Russians are a patriotic people, too, and can get bellicose if challenged.
The unclassified report released by the CIA, FBI and NSA makes us look silly. Not just to the Russians, but to other countries too. We are screaming loudly when we have barely been bitten. Now we know how other countries feel when we meddle in their politics. Or worse yet, invade and occupy them.
We have a lot of issues that it might be helpful to work with Russia on. Many seem not to have noticed, but Ukraine is an economic basket case and has a corrupt, ineffective government. We and the European Union might be able to work with Russia to stop all fighting there and get the country back together again. Ukraine's economy is much more dependent on Russia than on the West.
Same with Syria. We have no influence there anymore. None. We stood on our morals and our supposed exceptionalism to demand that our wishes be followed. A more pragmatic stance would have served us better.
Donald Trump has the right idea. If we treat Russia as an evil enemy, we will get nowhere. Russia is a poor country, relatively speaking, and has plenty of its own issues to deal with. But Russians are a patriotic people, too, and can get bellicose if challenged.
The unclassified report released by the CIA, FBI and NSA makes us look silly. Not just to the Russians, but to other countries too. We are screaming loudly when we have barely been bitten. Now we know how other countries feel when we meddle in their politics. Or worse yet, invade and occupy them.
13
On Meet the Press on August 16 2015, Donald Trump said he gets military advice from TV shows. Now it appears he and his supporters get intelligence from TV shows too. Specifically, Russian TV shows, which tell him all he needs to know. No wonder he doesn't think he needs US intelligence briefings.
1
The common American is wise enough and would not be influenced by the Russian influence to vote in a particular way. In fact it would have worked against the candidate whom the Russians would have supported due to the past relations. However,there is no harm in looking into if foreigners are interested in US government to make decisions. Trump election cannot be used as a test sample at this time on this issue.
3
The declassified report from the Office of the Director of National Intelligence is embarrassing reading. You won't believe it unless you read it.
The writing level suggests their audience is a middle school crowd.
Every word is intuitively obvious to the casual observer with a pulse.
It's hard to know whether to laugh, cry or be terrified that these folks "have our back".
By all means protect our agents and friends, but we need some convincing evidence after Viet Nam, Iraq, etc. because telling us it's "a slam dunk" is a "dog that won't hunt". [i.e. as in a hound who believes that he can lounge around back at the pen while the rest are out busting brush in the dark treeing racoons, clawing and biting at the bark".
The writing level suggests their audience is a middle school crowd.
Every word is intuitively obvious to the casual observer with a pulse.
It's hard to know whether to laugh, cry or be terrified that these folks "have our back".
By all means protect our agents and friends, but we need some convincing evidence after Viet Nam, Iraq, etc. because telling us it's "a slam dunk" is a "dog that won't hunt". [i.e. as in a hound who believes that he can lounge around back at the pen while the rest are out busting brush in the dark treeing racoons, clawing and biting at the bark".
4
They are relying on the fact that the Liberal chorus won't actually read the report, just the NYT quick, inaccurate summaries.
What difference does it make, if it was Vlad or a 400 lb hacker, lying in the bed? The election is over, Trump won decisively. The Ruskies didn't tap into any polling places or election software, they just realeased DNC e-mail showing how Bernie Sanders was a sucker. Dirty tricks happens on both sides; maybe the Kremlin was responsible for illegally releasing Donald Trump's tax forms....
3
"The report provides no new evidence to support assertions that Moscow meddled covertly through hacking and other actions to boost the electoral chances of Donald J. Trump and undermine his rival, Hillary Clinton, but rests instead on what it describes as Moscow’s long record of trying to influence America’s political system."
That's all there is ===== NOTHING.
btw -- why the 'sudden' NYTimes concern over foreign influence ? What other countries try to influence US elections ? Perhaps AIPAC? Why no NYTimes investigation of 'potential' foreign role / donation/ participation in AIPAC?
What is the difference between AIPAC attempts to influence and Russian attempts to influence?
Perhaps NYTimes approves of some foreign countries influence and not others?
That's all there is ===== NOTHING.
btw -- why the 'sudden' NYTimes concern over foreign influence ? What other countries try to influence US elections ? Perhaps AIPAC? Why no NYTimes investigation of 'potential' foreign role / donation/ participation in AIPAC?
What is the difference between AIPAC attempts to influence and Russian attempts to influence?
Perhaps NYTimes approves of some foreign countries influence and not others?
7
I'm sorry, but I just can't help wondering what has happened to the conscience and memory of the American Left.
After all of the dirty deeds the U.S. perpetrated on the Middle East, South America, and just about every county over the globe, including the Soviet Union from its very birth, they are decrying a little payback now by a country that has the gall to deal us some of our own medicine.
I do have serious concern about Trump, but he is absolutely right to sock it to the hypocritical lefty supporters of Hillary who were perfectly happy to have her cheat Sanders out of the nomination. Trump won fair and square, and the Democrats need chew up and swallow their utter failure, and stop whining.
The Democrats have become their own worst enemy, and after my entire adult lifetime of being a Democrat, I'm done. A false friend can be your worst enemy, and a false friend is what they have become.
After all of the dirty deeds the U.S. perpetrated on the Middle East, South America, and just about every county over the globe, including the Soviet Union from its very birth, they are decrying a little payback now by a country that has the gall to deal us some of our own medicine.
I do have serious concern about Trump, but he is absolutely right to sock it to the hypocritical lefty supporters of Hillary who were perfectly happy to have her cheat Sanders out of the nomination. Trump won fair and square, and the Democrats need chew up and swallow their utter failure, and stop whining.
The Democrats have become their own worst enemy, and after my entire adult lifetime of being a Democrat, I'm done. A false friend can be your worst enemy, and a false friend is what they have become.
7
So the Soviet Union responds and says we would never do that. Because the Soviets never lie. Never have. Missiles in Cuba? Pravda means "truth" in Russian, right. Given the disinformation and the trolls now online for the Soviets when you write a denial by the Soviets, can you at least footnote the headline with "according to the Soviet minister of propaganda"?
Here is what I don't understand:
We were told throughout the electoral season by The NYT op-ed pages that it was unfair to make such a big deal about Hillary's handling of email.
Yet now after the election and its disappointing result for the op-ed pages, we are told by those same op-ed pages (and the ever more heroically slanted news pages) that the unsubstantiated claims of "hacking" the US election by the Russians boil down to them getting access to John Podesta's email account so that they could release his emails to reveal the inner workings of the Clinton/DNC axis, hurting the Clinton Campaign. This we are told is s grave matter!
Hmm, so perhaps email security might be something that could have huge consequences after all..,
We were told throughout the electoral season by The NYT op-ed pages that it was unfair to make such a big deal about Hillary's handling of email.
Yet now after the election and its disappointing result for the op-ed pages, we are told by those same op-ed pages (and the ever more heroically slanted news pages) that the unsubstantiated claims of "hacking" the US election by the Russians boil down to them getting access to John Podesta's email account so that they could release his emails to reveal the inner workings of the Clinton/DNC axis, hurting the Clinton Campaign. This we are told is s grave matter!
Hmm, so perhaps email security might be something that could have huge consequences after all..,
4
Okay, the C. I. A. Let's see: Mossadegh (check), Lumumba (check), Castro (gave it a go but, in this particular case---pun intended---no cigar), Allende (check). Probably Diem, too.
Later, a few years ago, Ukraine. Coup, no assassination (in this case) necessary. See transcript of Nuland's leaked phone call. Now, THAT'S how you meddle in the internal politics of a sovereign foreign country! How you engage in subversion, while dressing it up as another ostensibly spontaneous and Jeffersonian "color revolution." And how you ignite the justifiable rage of the Russians, who only wish they could ever come close to retaliating in kind and half as effectively.
Look: Putin is not banging his shoe on the table, shouting "we will bury you!" The Soviet Union is history. Get over it, Washington. The Russians have. They do, though, continue to have interests that are every bit as legitimate as interests the United States has, and it's time the United States quit gratuitously demonizing them, even though past demonizing of Russia is what built extant Federal bureaucracies and created extant government careers.
It's time, too, the United States flat-out quit undermining governments it deems objectionable: no longer commie ones as in the past, but different flavors of authoritarian (Saddam, Assad, Yanukovych, Putin) nowadays.
Later, a few years ago, Ukraine. Coup, no assassination (in this case) necessary. See transcript of Nuland's leaked phone call. Now, THAT'S how you meddle in the internal politics of a sovereign foreign country! How you engage in subversion, while dressing it up as another ostensibly spontaneous and Jeffersonian "color revolution." And how you ignite the justifiable rage of the Russians, who only wish they could ever come close to retaliating in kind and half as effectively.
Look: Putin is not banging his shoe on the table, shouting "we will bury you!" The Soviet Union is history. Get over it, Washington. The Russians have. They do, though, continue to have interests that are every bit as legitimate as interests the United States has, and it's time the United States quit gratuitously demonizing them, even though past demonizing of Russia is what built extant Federal bureaucracies and created extant government careers.
It's time, too, the United States flat-out quit undermining governments it deems objectionable: no longer commie ones as in the past, but different flavors of authoritarian (Saddam, Assad, Yanukovych, Putin) nowadays.
4
If it were Russians - they would simply published a few emails Clinton deleted from her private server. Much easier and with a guaranteed result.
3
This is failed state 101. You've just spent 12 months listening to "people" paid to spread pure hatred and attempt intimidation of other Americans, aka Make America Hate Again. Any load of garbage is now news. Even the combined intelligence agencies can't make a dent in this pantheon of selective ignorance. A propaganda campaign like nothing since Goebbels, evidence of foreign intervention in American politics, and everything's just ducky, right? If anyone had ever 50 years ago that America could be so humiliated by anyone or anything, nobody would have believed it. Jefferson Davis said the epitaph to the Confederacy should be "Died of a theory"; 162 years later, you're hoping for some insane reason that some of the old theories still work. They don't.
2
Ridiculous charge by the Obama administration. Hillary lost, people rejected the policies of the past eight years. It is OVER, stop acting like a mean girl and get on with your life Obama.
10
@dc
In the world of real math and not the Electoral College, Clinton won by nearly 3 MILLION more votes -- and that's without the right-wing 'Fake" Breitbart News, and Russian intereference which has already been proven.
Like many Americans, you personalize this with a false and puerile equivalence.
If anyone should stop being mean--it's you.
Stick to the facts.
In the world of real math and not the Electoral College, Clinton won by nearly 3 MILLION more votes -- and that's without the right-wing 'Fake" Breitbart News, and Russian intereference which has already been proven.
Like many Americans, you personalize this with a false and puerile equivalence.
If anyone should stop being mean--it's you.
Stick to the facts.
1
Read the report. The 'declassified' intelligence report looks like it was ripped off from some kind of amateur blog. RT is mentioned in about 80% of the report! Name me one person in flyover country who actually watches RT. It doesn't take much brain power to realize what you are actually watching is propaganda. C'mon! Fox News propaganda has magnitudes more influence that some cheesy 'news' site from Mother Russia. The FBI Director and Murdoch's news empire did far more damage that those pesky Russians ever did.
7
Trump has had long time associations with dubious Russians, as this article shows: http://www.the-american-interest.com/2016/12/19/the-curious-world-of-don.... Some of these very rich guys, read criminals, also were informers for the FBI/CIA. Don't forget that Trump asked the Russians to hack. So the guys got together and cooked up a storm?
1
"RT broadcast, hosted, and advertised third-party candidate debates"
This quote was actually cited in the Intelligence Report as "evidence" of "Russian Meddling". It as absolutely astounding that a 3rd party debate would be cited as "evidence" and completely delegitimizes the entire Report.
In fact, seven pages of the Report were dedicated to RT. This is a media outlet that has been around for a decade. They had less influence in the 2016 election than BBC or any other foreign media outlet. This Intelligence Report is the biggest piece of politicized propaganda since Powell's UN speech.
This quote was actually cited in the Intelligence Report as "evidence" of "Russian Meddling". It as absolutely astounding that a 3rd party debate would be cited as "evidence" and completely delegitimizes the entire Report.
In fact, seven pages of the Report were dedicated to RT. This is a media outlet that has been around for a decade. They had less influence in the 2016 election than BBC or any other foreign media outlet. This Intelligence Report is the biggest piece of politicized propaganda since Powell's UN speech.
4
What Putin read correctly is that Trump detests anyone saying they know more than him and that includes the agencies whose job it is to collect and analyse information. The Russians left tracks back to Putin knowing that Trump would defend his new found friend against their common enemy, the NSA, FBI and CIA. Trumps tweets have further divided America, left doubt about the credibility of our intelligence agencies and made Trump more sure than ever that he is right and people we depend on to collect and analyse information to keep us safe are wrong. I think the Russians succeeded better than they could have hoped for to disrupt the American political system, thanks to Trump.
11
The number of posters here who are all-in with the CIA and FBI is quite frankly amazing, considering most of you are hard-core leftists. When did you all suddenly get religion? You childlike faith in the intelligence orgs is touching, but not very much like your past attitudes. I guess it's easier to just believe without evidence when you really want to believe.
5
You mean like those fake stories about child sex rings that make idiots shoot up restaurants?
1
Yes, and add the "birthers" to the list.
Who cares?
6
Real Americans care if a foreign country is meddling in our Internal affairs.
Go out and talk to a real American.
Not ones who would say "who cares."
Go out and talk to a real American.
Not ones who would say "who cares."
Paul,
I'm sorry that you misunderstood what I had in mind.
My thought was based on being both disappointed and frustrated with the gamesmanship on display by our president elect and the mouthpieces for Putin.
I truly do not care (nor believe) what the "Russians" think about our charges.
I'm sorry that you misunderstood what I had in mind.
My thought was based on being both disappointed and frustrated with the gamesmanship on display by our president elect and the mouthpieces for Putin.
I truly do not care (nor believe) what the "Russians" think about our charges.
To anyone who is willing to make excuses for the Russian murderer dictator and his billionaire oligarchy which has most Russians living desperate, squalid lives…I have only this to say:
Go live there.
Real Americans don't want any part of that disgusting system that has no respect for its citizens. And no part of a man like Trump who would accept the assistance of its leader. He probably was in on the whole plan. What are we, naive children!
Real Americans say to "compromised" Americans, go live there so you won't take our freedom, our right to fair elections for granted anymore.
Go. Get. Gone!
Go live there.
Real Americans don't want any part of that disgusting system that has no respect for its citizens. And no part of a man like Trump who would accept the assistance of its leader. He probably was in on the whole plan. What are we, naive children!
Real Americans say to "compromised" Americans, go live there so you won't take our freedom, our right to fair elections for granted anymore.
Go. Get. Gone!
3
Gary Kasparov warns of the Trump-Putin alliance. At the very least, all of Trump's tax returns should be vetted by both parties and historical network research could be performed to determine strong and weak ties between the Kremlin and Trump's business empire. As citizens of a democracy, we deserve to see the data Trump eschews and determine for ourselves in whose interests he is acting. #TrustButVerify.
4
That they would ridicule us further proofs they need remedial classes in politically correct behavior.
Here is a fresh perspective that might be the truth:
Russians did not release all of the emails that they have hacked to WikiLeaks. They only released enough to just mildly tarnish Democrats and establish credibility of the hack, but still have Clinton elected (or so everyone thought). The Russians kept the really compromising documents to themselves, and once Clinton is in the office use them to blackmail her, and to have Clinton do whatever Putin wants her to do.
Russians did not release all of the emails that they have hacked to WikiLeaks. They only released enough to just mildly tarnish Democrats and establish credibility of the hack, but still have Clinton elected (or so everyone thought). The Russians kept the really compromising documents to themselves, and once Clinton is in the office use them to blackmail her, and to have Clinton do whatever Putin wants her to do.
1
In Sunday's NYT (The Pitfalls of Trying to Read Minds, Jan.1,2017) The author Isaac Lidsky claimed,"We are all inclined to believe that we can see into the minds of others, can understand their perspective and experiences. We're built to do it - to predict, to infer, to assume. In the process, we unknowingly embellish reality and create fictions."
Mr. Lidsky's words of wisdom ought to reverberate with readers who are inclined to speculate about people and circumstances unknown to them.
Mr. Lidsky's words of wisdom ought to reverberate with readers who are inclined to speculate about people and circumstances unknown to them.
4
Regardless of how long Russian meddling in US politics has gone on, the internet is what has made all the difference this time. With Russian hackers posing as Americans against Hillary and for Trump on social media platforms, blogs, forums, fake news sites, etc., this swelled an already rampant craziness. No question it affected the election, as it was designed to do.
9
Everyone has forgotten what got hacked--stuff about Debbie Wasserman Schultz and the DNC bias against Bernie--was mainly of interest to Bernie supporters. If the Kremlin hacked US sites there were more important computers to go after. They would certainly have hacked Hillary's, and they would have held on to the files in expectation of using them when she became president. When she didn't they were pleased, but also as surprised as anyone. Interesting how everyone in the press is so sure the Russians hacked the DNC but is insistent that Hillary's computer wasn't hacked. We are suffering mass hysteria.
4
Victor-You have made an interesting observation in noting that the "leaks" were of primary interest to Bernie supporters--It was precisely those leaks mouthed by Bernie supporters to buttress their complaints of a "rigged" system which Trump exploited in order to "depress" Democratic voter turn-out.
2
@Victor. You know it's just possible HRC's email server was more secure than the State Dept alternative. It's also far more likely the Russians would have released as much damaging stuff as possible rather than try to blackmail her. What do you think they have, incriminating stuff about Pizza-gate or Benghazi or her foundation? Her enemies always assume she's a complete fool at the same time she's guilty of massive nefarious deeds, and yet there's virtually nothing there, even after decades of investigation. Just lies, innuendo, and character assassination because she's a competent Democrat, a centrist, and a woman. There's hysteria here, but it happens to be coming from her misinformed or malevolent opponents.
2
Putin has got dirt on Trump.
This is why Trump is so worried about not upsetting him.
Trump's big deals in Russia undoubtedly involved multiple layers of corrupt dealings that are thoroughly documented by the KGB.
Almost certainly, ExxonMobil has done the same thing.
This is why Trump is so worried about not upsetting him.
Trump's big deals in Russia undoubtedly involved multiple layers of corrupt dealings that are thoroughly documented by the KGB.
Almost certainly, ExxonMobil has done the same thing.
2
This was to be expected. It changes nothing. Trump is a criminal and should be treated as such. We should have a new election. Why is this so difficult? We could have a bloodless revolution if only Obama would take the necessary steps to have a new election (one in which Obama, of course, could not be a candidate). The previous election was illegitimate. Time to have a fair election.
3
After reading the comments of trump supporters one can only think -what's the point of trying to defend the nation? Stupidity has won the day and, as the
GOP won't do anything to impair the trump movement, the country is damaged for good. Glad I'm old.
GOP won't do anything to impair the trump movement, the country is damaged for good. Glad I'm old.
2
Honestly ridicule has meaning only if you have an iota of respect for the other party. Russia had a chance to move from Soviet style totalitarianism to a more just system and a more diversified economy. Instead they have totalitarian system where journalists are killed, political enemies are jailed or killed and religious moralism is used to have LGBT people live in fear.
2
The NYT treats the Russian denial of involvement in the hacking and electoral campaign as if it meant something. It doesn't, because no other response could be expected from Russians officials. They were not going to say "oh yes, we did it, we tried to influence the US election".
2
Nightmare time. Everything about Mr. Trump's response to this has been disheartening and, pardon the phrase, deplorable.
The Russians (I almost wrote "the Soviets") and Mr. Trump are on the same page.
Is Cheney going to come out now, and blab again about the "good intel" on the WMDs that he routinely trotted out for years, whenever he had a book tour, or when, say, Benghazi came up, and he just couldn't help himself, he had to rush to the microphones? I don't hear his ardent voice attacking the Republican PEOTUS for siding with the Russkies, and BOTH of them using the WMD intel to ridicule the hacking intel!
The Russian oligarchs patently helping oligarch Trump win the American election reminds one of nothing so much as Orwell's last line in Animal Farm, his savage satire of the Soviet Union,
“The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”
The Russians (I almost wrote "the Soviets") and Mr. Trump are on the same page.
Is Cheney going to come out now, and blab again about the "good intel" on the WMDs that he routinely trotted out for years, whenever he had a book tour, or when, say, Benghazi came up, and he just couldn't help himself, he had to rush to the microphones? I don't hear his ardent voice attacking the Republican PEOTUS for siding with the Russkies, and BOTH of them using the WMD intel to ridicule the hacking intel!
The Russian oligarchs patently helping oligarch Trump win the American election reminds one of nothing so much as Orwell's last line in Animal Farm, his savage satire of the Soviet Union,
“The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”
3
Does anyone ever decide whether or not to call a penalty until after the winner is determined? No, not ever.
This happened, and anyone worrying about who is "winning" is in total denial.
This happened, and anyone worrying about who is "winning" is in total denial.
2
Is there a reason Russian Government gets a chance to defend itself on the cover of the NYTimes? It presupposes they would ever fess up to undermining a country with vastly superior power.
2
Well, what did you expect them to say, admit it?
4
"Well, what did you expect them to say, admit it"
Of course! If you accuse someone of something, and they deny it, that proves they're guilty! Everyone knows that.
Of course! If you accuse someone of something, and they deny it, that proves they're guilty! Everyone knows that.
So, let's recap. We were hacked by Russia, confirmed by our intelligence community. Donald Trump actually asked Russia to hack his opponent...on TV in front of millions! The information - ALL of it designed to embarrass only Democratic candidates - found its way to Wikileaks via Russian personnel.
Donald Trump, chief beneficiary of this disgraceful affair, says, surprisingly, that there's nothing to it, and he can't wait to get to work making friends with Russia. And while this is going on, Russian officials are having a field day ridiculing and trolling us.
Republicans now see a dangerous and repressive geopolitical adversary as a friend, because they helped to get their candidate elected. Trump voters either don't care that the Russians were involved or are actively happy about it.
We are so. totally. doomed.
Donald Trump, chief beneficiary of this disgraceful affair, says, surprisingly, that there's nothing to it, and he can't wait to get to work making friends with Russia. And while this is going on, Russian officials are having a field day ridiculing and trolling us.
Republicans now see a dangerous and repressive geopolitical adversary as a friend, because they helped to get their candidate elected. Trump voters either don't care that the Russians were involved or are actively happy about it.
We are so. totally. doomed.
4
@Rick
Yes. You've got it all in a nutshell....sadly.
But you forgot the part about this country now being a one-party state (just like Russia), with the Republicans in control of all three branches of government.
"Doomed" sums it up quite nicely.
Yes. You've got it all in a nutshell....sadly.
But you forgot the part about this country now being a one-party state (just like Russia), with the Republicans in control of all three branches of government.
"Doomed" sums it up quite nicely.
Ha Ha- No Really- you guys can have Trump- take him!
2
Why Alexey Pushkov, a member of the defense and security committee of the upper house of the Russian Parliament, ridicules the American report on AMERICAN Twitter? What are the Russia Today and Sputnik STILL doing in the USA? When did the USA become so ridiculously feeble and complacent?..
1
Message to Media: "He said - They said" journalism no longer works in our country. You are part of this situation. In any other country this president-elect would be facing treason charges at this point. Please stay focused!
3
I'm a big supporter of the CIA and the NSA - I love our secret police. Without them, we would be totally unaware of the breaches committed by the dark forces supporting Putin.
1
Wondering where the Republican Party goes from here. Apart from those who are Trump devotees, the risks of supporting Trump in light of the consensus intelligence report and Trump's own behavior seem to be high. This issue is just going to blow over. We would fools not to remain on high alert for more of this on our shores, and the rest of the world is on alert for intrusion into their elections. If you are an actual patriot who happens to be Republican, why would you put either the country or your career at risk by going along with Trump on this?
7
The next question that demands an answer: What involvement, if any, came from Trump or his campaign?
See 18 U.S. Code § 2381 – Treason: Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason…
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2381
See 18 U.S. Code § 2381 – Treason: Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason…
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2381
1
Why is the link of both Clintons not viewed as treason? Negotiating and officially approving the transfer of 20% of U.S. uranium assets to a Russian entity plus approving the export of dual use technologies while receiving millions in the process is the essence of treason.
All this post-election whining is very annoying as is the Times' unwillingness to accept the will of the voters as reflected in the electoral vote.
All this post-election whining is very annoying as is the Times' unwillingness to accept the will of the voters as reflected in the electoral vote.
Is it really "news" that Russia "denies" hacking? We'd expect them to say, "you got us!"?
But why do the 4 leading articles all have "Trump" in the headline? Could it be that Trump sells copy, or generates ads? That's just what he wants!
But why do the 4 leading articles all have "Trump" in the headline? Could it be that Trump sells copy, or generates ads? That's just what he wants!
4
Trump declares our Intelligence information a "witch hunt."
He's fine with Putin ridiculing our government for our findings.
Trump wants to be friends with Putin and declare those who don't either stupid or a fool.
And he's not even sworn in yet. How on earth can we allow this to happen to our wonderful country and to the world??
He's fine with Putin ridiculing our government for our findings.
Trump wants to be friends with Putin and declare those who don't either stupid or a fool.
And he's not even sworn in yet. How on earth can we allow this to happen to our wonderful country and to the world??
1
How many times has Russia told the world they've withdrawn from Syria?
Look: I don't have that many fingers and toes to keep up with the lying Ruskies. Just remember, if they're talking they are lying - it's really just that simple.
Not really that hard America.
Look: I don't have that many fingers and toes to keep up with the lying Ruskies. Just remember, if they're talking they are lying - it's really just that simple.
Not really that hard America.
1
The idea that there is some connection between what the Russians are saying and what Trump is saying is as bizarre and outrageous as connecting Kerry to the Palestinians based on the last UN vote. Kerry was no more in cahoots with the Palestinians than Trump is with the Russians.
If and when the time comes when there is a serious accusation to be made against Trump, I can assure you no one will listen. His critics will have cried "Wolf!" so many times with these ridiculous allegations that a real accusation will be automatically dismissed.
Trump dystopian projection fatigue has already begun, and he hasn't even taken office.
If and when the time comes when there is a serious accusation to be made against Trump, I can assure you no one will listen. His critics will have cried "Wolf!" so many times with these ridiculous allegations that a real accusation will be automatically dismissed.
Trump dystopian projection fatigue has already begun, and he hasn't even taken office.
7
The Russians were able to hack party and government sites to enable them to leak information and tailor a disinformation campaign.
Yet the failures of the intelligence community is not the issue of the report, the NYT or many of its commentators.
This despite the fact the hacks have been going of for years.
No one is the least upset with the intelligence agencies or, even more telling, their boss, Barack Obama.
Rather, the big issue is Trump's involvement. The NYT leads the narrative but always with that disclaimer that there are no supporting facts (nod and wink) and of course also prints comment after comment filling in the blanks with allegations of Trumps' benefits, monetary and political,
I find it so hard to understand how in a media environment where this is the behaviour of the "paper of record" a biased, conspiracy oriented outlet like RT attracted the kind of viewership it did and its reporting fit right in.
Of course that disbelief pales beside my shock that I just read an intelligence briefing in full which mostly amounted to complaining about a foreign news source's reporting and editorial point of view.
Do these spooks think Press TV, Al Jazeera, all Arab and Chinese media et are not mouthpieces for their governments who present new with their own agenda.
Even more telling don't they know the real master of this, with regard to its own politics and others, is the US.
Read the NYT magazine piece on Ben Rhodes.
And grow up.
Yet the failures of the intelligence community is not the issue of the report, the NYT or many of its commentators.
This despite the fact the hacks have been going of for years.
No one is the least upset with the intelligence agencies or, even more telling, their boss, Barack Obama.
Rather, the big issue is Trump's involvement. The NYT leads the narrative but always with that disclaimer that there are no supporting facts (nod and wink) and of course also prints comment after comment filling in the blanks with allegations of Trumps' benefits, monetary and political,
I find it so hard to understand how in a media environment where this is the behaviour of the "paper of record" a biased, conspiracy oriented outlet like RT attracted the kind of viewership it did and its reporting fit right in.
Of course that disbelief pales beside my shock that I just read an intelligence briefing in full which mostly amounted to complaining about a foreign news source's reporting and editorial point of view.
Do these spooks think Press TV, Al Jazeera, all Arab and Chinese media et are not mouthpieces for their governments who present new with their own agenda.
Even more telling don't they know the real master of this, with regard to its own politics and others, is the US.
Read the NYT magazine piece on Ben Rhodes.
And grow up.
2
It's telling that no one in the media has held Obama responsible for this hacking debacle. All the while they repeat the drivel that his Administration is scandal free.
2
Your analysis that the US is no less culpable of "meddling" than the Russians (or the Soviets-it seems to make no difference to you) sounds like the self-indulgent whine of a disappointed romantic (and since Viet Nam aren't we all to some degree disappointed in America).
No. It's the observation of a non- American. Why would I be disappointed in America. Did most foreigners like me ever believe your myths of greatness? No.
But it is still rather amazing to watch the shlock culture you have become.
I wouldn't live in the US. At dinner on the weekend, after the Lauderdal massacre, all of my friends agreed we wouldn't vacation there for safety reasons.
But disappointed? It's your country.
But it is still rather amazing to watch the shlock culture you have become.
I wouldn't live in the US. At dinner on the weekend, after the Lauderdal massacre, all of my friends agreed we wouldn't vacation there for safety reasons.
But disappointed? It's your country.
Trump is a witting operative of the Russian government. He must prove this is not true. He actions and words underpin his support to a hostile foreign country. I blame the media for not investigating his links more thoroughly. If this was Hillary Clinton praising our enemy, the media would be all over it. It would be the topic everyday, When did she know about the Hacking? How did she know about the hacking. Republicans would be marching in the streets to prevent a Clinton inauguration.
1
It's so bizarre to consider your own president an unpatriotic Russian plant, but I can't help it, and my guess is the CIA can't either.
1
Hitler ridiculed the press during his ride to power and downfall. Two days before the Allied forces started carpet bombing Berlin his propaganda machine told the Germans they had bombed America and were winning the war.
Let's not make the mistake of believing power-hungry, greedy ego maniacs like The Con Don and his Top 1% Global Financial Elite Robber Baron/ Radical Religious Party again.
Let's not make the mistake of believing power-hungry, greedy ego maniacs like The Con Don and his Top 1% Global Financial Elite Robber Baron/ Radical Religious Party again.
2
Hitler also put out fake stories to manipulate the public. Trump is not the president promoting this false narrative right now.
1
@njglea
Sorry to dispute this. But Hitler didn't "ridicule" the Press -- he owned it (of course, with the hand and input of Dr. Josef Goebbels). And any "unofficial" press/ news disputing was quickly found out and annihilated -- usually with the help of the Secret Police (Gestapo).
Other than that, I mostly agree with your astute comments. Keep it up......"Con Don" indeed.
Sorry to dispute this. But Hitler didn't "ridicule" the Press -- he owned it (of course, with the hand and input of Dr. Josef Goebbels). And any "unofficial" press/ news disputing was quickly found out and annihilated -- usually with the help of the Secret Police (Gestapo).
Other than that, I mostly agree with your astute comments. Keep it up......"Con Don" indeed.
Ah, I was wondering when Goodwin's Law would become applicable in this thread.
1
Has the FBI disclosed exactly what information Russia shared with the Trump campaign team during the campaign? Russia certainly gained access to DNC and HRC's planning documents. That information was invaluable to the Trump team.
Based on information from very reliable sources, a number of widely respected intelligence operatives have concluded that Trump indeed is a spy for mother Russia.
1
Did FBI Director Comey know his information was directly linked with Russian attempts to manipulate US elections when he entered the FBI into the election process with ithat nformation directly linked with those Russian efforts?
1
Extremist like Donald Trump, Jean-Marie Le Pen of France,
extremist in Germany, Sweden the Alt-Right in America and their disciples are all friends of Putin. It can be ascertained that efforts to rig elections by the Russians will be the new Normal. Putin and Trump have an uncanny ability to deny facts and are skilled in manipulating the gullible and hate mongers. Putin denied Russian involvement in Crimea while it was documented otherwise. Donald Trump lied during his entire campaign. Trump's denial and Russian ridicule of US intelligence findings are well in line with their modus operandi.
extremist in Germany, Sweden the Alt-Right in America and their disciples are all friends of Putin. It can be ascertained that efforts to rig elections by the Russians will be the new Normal. Putin and Trump have an uncanny ability to deny facts and are skilled in manipulating the gullible and hate mongers. Putin denied Russian involvement in Crimea while it was documented otherwise. Donald Trump lied during his entire campaign. Trump's denial and Russian ridicule of US intelligence findings are well in line with their modus operandi.
1
Many other cultures and nations, along with Russia which is the vestige of the former Soviet Union, resent the US, along with many Arab and Shiite nations and possibly the Israeli nation.
Any of the abovementioned nations could have initiated the Cyber Attacks against the Democratic Convention, prior to the US Presidential Election.
As Trump claims, any of these adversaries to US dominance, could have perpetrated the Cyber Attacks against the DNC.
As a member of the US Army Cyber Security Community, I can assure you that the confusion of international affairs makes impossible the specific attribution of guilt for cyber attacks to any one nation, since they are all involved in financial competition, to which cyber competition has become the lowest subordinate issue.
It's just about Money, I guarantee, not death or anything else.
Any of the abovementioned nations could have initiated the Cyber Attacks against the Democratic Convention, prior to the US Presidential Election.
As Trump claims, any of these adversaries to US dominance, could have perpetrated the Cyber Attacks against the DNC.
As a member of the US Army Cyber Security Community, I can assure you that the confusion of international affairs makes impossible the specific attribution of guilt for cyber attacks to any one nation, since they are all involved in financial competition, to which cyber competition has become the lowest subordinate issue.
It's just about Money, I guarantee, not death or anything else.
1
I strongly encourage people to read the real report. Relatively little of it actually discusses Russian hacking, and what little it does say is superficial. The majority of it consists of complaining about RT and to a lesser extent Sputniknews and a couple of others.
Yes, RT is funded by the Russian government and disseminates a pro-Russian viewpoint. That's completely normal - news sources, private and public, usually express views popular among their funders and the political actors in their country of origin. Its perspectives are valuable not because they're "the truth", but because they provide a different set of opinions than one is likely to encounter by reading purely American news sources.
Both the traditional news outlets like the NYT and the intelligence community who put together this underwhelming report seem irritated that the US mainstream media have lost their ability to control public opinion. They are threatened by the fact that people are now listening to a diversity of news sources rather than the very narrow spectrum of opinions you are likely to get listening to nothing but US mainstream outlets.
Once you read someone else's propaganda, and then come back and read our own news, it becomes really obvious that our news is no less propagandistic. The techniques used to control readers' perceptions are fundamentally the same. That doesn't mean there's no truth, it means you need to read a bunch of vantage points to reach a truly informed conclusion.
Yes, RT is funded by the Russian government and disseminates a pro-Russian viewpoint. That's completely normal - news sources, private and public, usually express views popular among their funders and the political actors in their country of origin. Its perspectives are valuable not because they're "the truth", but because they provide a different set of opinions than one is likely to encounter by reading purely American news sources.
Both the traditional news outlets like the NYT and the intelligence community who put together this underwhelming report seem irritated that the US mainstream media have lost their ability to control public opinion. They are threatened by the fact that people are now listening to a diversity of news sources rather than the very narrow spectrum of opinions you are likely to get listening to nothing but US mainstream outlets.
Once you read someone else's propaganda, and then come back and read our own news, it becomes really obvious that our news is no less propagandistic. The techniques used to control readers' perceptions are fundamentally the same. That doesn't mean there's no truth, it means you need to read a bunch of vantage points to reach a truly informed conclusion.
11
I read through the report. I saw a lot of "probably" and "we assume" and "our assessment." If the Russian goal was to disrupt and discredit the democratic functions of the US, as the report states, the CIA, DNI and media have certainly helped make that a reality. Mid November, people were disappointed in the election, but after this story got boosted by the public notice of Obama requesting the report and the leaking, the public is now in turmoil about the election. The exact Russian goal. The Administration should have quietly kicked the Russian rear from here to Tokyo. The fact it has been so publicly leaked and voiced shows the main point the Administration wanted to make to the public was "Trump is only President due to the Russians," (heavily implied, but, for PR purposes, not stated plainly) which helps them, but no one else.
3
Before you voice your opinion regarding this situation, ask yourself a couple of questions.
- Are you an American citizen and do you consider yourself a patriot. Would you fight in a war or send your children to fight in defense of the United States of America?
- Do you believe that the ultimate strength of this country is our free democracy?
If you answered yes to any of these questions, it would be hard to believe that you could possibly defend, under any circumstances, a foreign country attacking our country with a bomb, or a computer.
I hope people of this country will get pass their egos of who their candidate of the moment might be, and understand this goes far beyond Trump, Clinton, Democrat or Republican.
If you really believe you are proud to be a free American that loves our country, you can only be outraged by the undeniable facts that the Russian communist government lead by Putin attacked this country.
The reason behind it is beside the point.
- Are you an American citizen and do you consider yourself a patriot. Would you fight in a war or send your children to fight in defense of the United States of America?
- Do you believe that the ultimate strength of this country is our free democracy?
If you answered yes to any of these questions, it would be hard to believe that you could possibly defend, under any circumstances, a foreign country attacking our country with a bomb, or a computer.
I hope people of this country will get pass their egos of who their candidate of the moment might be, and understand this goes far beyond Trump, Clinton, Democrat or Republican.
If you really believe you are proud to be a free American that loves our country, you can only be outraged by the undeniable facts that the Russian communist government lead by Putin attacked this country.
The reason behind it is beside the point.
2
NYT journalism at its best, very balanced. Unlike RT, trying to portray its opponent in a negative light. Right? Right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change
4
Treason: "The crime of betraying one's country...." If using a former KGB agent and the Russian government to subvert the American election does not fit this definition, what does? Are we merely going to accept this dangerous presidency? What is the protocol when fraud and espionage interfere with a presidential election result? Leaders in Washington, people with honor—tell us.
What about a sitting US president using our intelligence agencies to promote a foreign conspiracy narrative to covers up a major election loss by his party?
Some of us find that behavior despicable.
Some of us find that behavior despicable.
1
And some of us find having a racist, sexist, adulterous, lying, tax evading, sexual deviant as POTUS deplorable. We'll get over it when you get over being upset about having a Black president.
It's quite apparent that the average lefty still doesn't get it. The dying minutes by the Obama loyalists are admirable, but pathetic. Everyone with half a brain knows this latest report from the intel community is just from the political end, not the real professionals. I guess we can expect this for the next 8 years.
#sorelosers, #hailmary
#sorelosers, #hailmary
5
Wait. Wait. Wait. Hold on. Tell me I've got this terribly wrong. Trump AND the Russian Parliament both attacking the CIA, FBI and NSA? How can that be? Donald, which side are you on? Will I need to turn to Hannity or O'Reilly or Limbaugh for an explanation if it's true?
The response by the president elect to our own intelligence experts regarding the Russian hacking has been baffling, unsettling, weird. And now the Russians pile on.
What is really going on here with the Trump/Putin bromance? Why would a president elect of this country (or any other country) try to minimize the “influence campaign” of hacking and election tampering by a foreign government? What does Putin have on the president elect? Is there some nefarious business deal that is or has been in play with Trump and the Russians? If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, maybe our intelligence community needs to take a look.
What is really going on here with the Trump/Putin bromance? Why would a president elect of this country (or any other country) try to minimize the “influence campaign” of hacking and election tampering by a foreign government? What does Putin have on the president elect? Is there some nefarious business deal that is or has been in play with Trump and the Russians? If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, maybe our intelligence community needs to take a look.
Come on! You already saw the mea culpa with the admission of a Russian state sponsored doping program. Do you really think you'll see two admissions of Russian cheating anytime soon?
1
"On a positive note
It's great that the Russians are the bad guys again..."
Absolutely -- after all, you can't have good guys unless you have bad guys!
It's great that the Russians are the bad guys again..."
Absolutely -- after all, you can't have good guys unless you have bad guys!
3
All the more reason to concoct a connection Putin and Trump. Two bad guys are better than one!
The real question is whether Hillary has been redeemed yet? Obama's running out of time and resources.
The real question is whether Hillary has been redeemed yet? Obama's running out of time and resources.
1
Whether or not Putin cheated America into electing a disgrace like Trump YES HE IS A BAD GUY.
If for no other reason (and there are many more) what he has done to support Assad in Syria makes him a bad guy.
If for no other reason (and there are many more) what he has done to support Assad in Syria makes him a bad guy.
Yes, the Russians exposed some embarrassing emails at the DNC, giving Americans true information about duplicitous activities in the Democratic Party. But our intelligence services undermine their own credibility when they go from that to "influenced the election," and only give further weight to Trump's charge that our intelligence services have become politicized.
16
It does not seem you read the actual report, Joseph. They were quite careful to explicitly state that they did not determine whether not not the hacking changed the outcome of the election. The ONLY thing the report confirmed was that they were sure that it happened, and that Russia's INTENT was to influence the election. They wrote in no uncertain terms that they did not believe the Russians actually tampered with the vote machines and that they made no assessment of the actual impact of the hacking. When did Republicans suddenly trust Putin over their own government?
Hi there, this is Vladimir Putin. Of course we did it. But for now, we'll say we didn't.
This whole situation is a farce. Those who traditionally made excuses for the Russians (Democrats) are suddenly suspicious and skeptical, while those who doubted every Russian motive (Republicans) are defiantly defending them.
Is it any wonder voters are disgusted with the whole lot of politicians, media, bureaucracy and intelligence agencies? They all appear rotten to the core.
God bless the Founding Fathers, who foresaw all of this. Amazing.
Is it any wonder voters are disgusted with the whole lot of politicians, media, bureaucracy and intelligence agencies? They all appear rotten to the core.
God bless the Founding Fathers, who foresaw all of this. Amazing.
4
Indeed, the Founding Fathers knew their history: all republics eventually fail, usually by rotting from within. This surreal election has starkly illuminated the increasing rapidity of our own precipitous slide down that inescapable slope. We have met the enemy and it is us.
So, Russia's version of Radio Free America is meddling with our elections. But corporations, most not from the United States, who manipulate the news are A-OK! Foreign princes and governments who give our politicians and political candidates large amounts of cash for "speeches" are just fine!
If you, the New York Times had done your job perhaps we wouldn't have gone to war against Iraq. And your silence regarding our government's manipulation of elections and coups worldwide is outrageous. Your writers are so dependent on being spoon fed news by the administration and so addicted to being told that they are in with the elites and getting special information that they have stopped being reporters. You could do better.
If you, the New York Times had done your job perhaps we wouldn't have gone to war against Iraq. And your silence regarding our government's manipulation of elections and coups worldwide is outrageous. Your writers are so dependent on being spoon fed news by the administration and so addicted to being told that they are in with the elites and getting special information that they have stopped being reporters. You could do better.
4
I'm echoing President Obama's sentiments made in a recent interview: what has happened is that the trump/right have managed to divide the Country such that one-half of citizens perceive the other half as the enemy, and Putin/Russia are to be trusted, embraced, defended...but not American citizens who are liberals, democrats.
Can this be fixed? It's been along time coming, even without Russian manipulations. I recall Trump's statement during a rally just before the election...."it's the end of the beginning, or it's the beginning of the end, folks". He was, obviously, referring to the campaign and hopes of winning the election...but when I heard it, it gave me goosebumps. Now it's making me sick to my stomach.
Can this be fixed? It's been along time coming, even without Russian manipulations. I recall Trump's statement during a rally just before the election...."it's the end of the beginning, or it's the beginning of the end, folks". He was, obviously, referring to the campaign and hopes of winning the election...but when I heard it, it gave me goosebumps. Now it's making me sick to my stomach.
So funny. Russians have been unable to face reality since way before Lenin. Reflexive lying is one of the most important parts of their national character. But, given them credit. They have the first Russian stooge to win the Presidency in American history. You would think they would be bragging about it.
At the end of an 8-month trip around the world 40 years ago, I came away with four observations:
1. Women have it very tough all over the world, especially in poor countries.
2. A powerful military is a luxury that very few countries possess or can afford.
3. Muhammad Ali (who had already stopped fighting) was, without question, the most popular human being on the face of the planet.
And:
4. Americans elevate Russia (then known as the Soviet Union) to a status it doesn't deserve by being so obsessed with it.
Russia is a third-rate country that likes to think it's a first-rate country, and we help to support that illusion. Even 40 years ago, most foreigners I talked to thought we would be wiser to focus more on other countries -- notably China. For better or worse, though, Russia continues to be our obsession.
1. Women have it very tough all over the world, especially in poor countries.
2. A powerful military is a luxury that very few countries possess or can afford.
3. Muhammad Ali (who had already stopped fighting) was, without question, the most popular human being on the face of the planet.
And:
4. Americans elevate Russia (then known as the Soviet Union) to a status it doesn't deserve by being so obsessed with it.
Russia is a third-rate country that likes to think it's a first-rate country, and we help to support that illusion. Even 40 years ago, most foreigners I talked to thought we would be wiser to focus more on other countries -- notably China. For better or worse, though, Russia continues to be our obsession.
4
It's obvious that many of the complaints about the Russian covert ops/propaganda ops are made in bad faith, simply as a way to delegitimize Trump. This is what Russia does, has been doing for a long time. Well, if the result is that more Americans are now ready to stand up to Russia where it counts - by sending troops to the Baltics to defend them against Russian military aggression - then that would be a good outcome.
2
Whatever the Russians did or did not do, Hillary Clinton did not lose because of Russia. The longer the Establishment Democrats persist in this line of attack, the further their stock will fall. The public doesn't buy it and doesn't like it.
7
The man who campaigned on a platform of antiglobalism is the beneficiary of foreign intervention in our electoral process and is singing the praises of our biggest global rival.
Is there an irony in this?
Is there an irony in this?
10
Interesting indeed!
"An interesting thing to note is the way that Trump and Russian officials echo one another, seemingly as if they were coordinating."
That pretty much nails it -- Trump plainly is Putin's lap dog!
"An interesting thing to note is the way that Trump and Russian officials echo one another, seemingly as if they were coordinating."
That pretty much nails it -- Trump plainly is Putin's lap dog!
1
So are all his supporters since many are saying the exact same thing (according to that NYT article). Man, who knew we had been taken over by the Russians?!? And right under Obama's nose...
1
The adults in the room are still waiting for the evidence.
These are serious allegations...If you don't back them up with evidence, your careers in journalism/politics are going to be toast.
These are serious allegations...If you don't back them up with evidence, your careers in journalism/politics are going to be toast.
7
"Adults" would be listening carefully to our CIA, NSA, FBI and other agencies.
But Trump is just sitting in the corner, reciting the fake news of the day. Wearing a used dunce cap. A gift from "W".
But Trump is just sitting in the corner, reciting the fake news of the day. Wearing a used dunce cap. A gift from "W".
1
umm. where's the evidence? the finger pointing frenzy is amazing to watch with zero evidence still presented. I'm fully against the nightmare that is Trump. But events like Washington Post printing completely false story re: Russian hacking of electrical grid, then rescinding quietly is nuts. Until there's evidence, how about Democrats mobilize efforts against very real and proven voter suppression here in this country. Dems won't take on the real work because they don't really care. And maybe just got beat playing their own games (Hillary clinton's DNC slimy campaign to cheat Sanders, her meddling in Honduras election, etc...). What a mess. If this was such a threat, Dems should have investigated when they first got word (last year.) Too little too late and still no smoking gun.
4
The DNC hack is just the tip of the ice berg. What other hacks have gone undetected? The election is over and the emails are out there in public. However, what is missing in this story? The RNC isn't any cleaner and given the new Trump organization more skellys with be jumping out of the closet real soon.
2
Like the people in the United States, the people of Russia are stuck with a dictatorship. Like the people of the United States, the people of Russia just want to be able to raise their families, follow their faith, live their lives. Putin and Trump in no way will allow that to happen. When the people of both country rise up and kick these two horrible men off the planet, maybe the people will then have a chance.
1
So...how did Putin get Hillary Clinton to use an unsecure private server? How did he get Debbie Wassernan Schultz to undermine the Sanders campaign - and how did he get all the information out to the public to undermine Mrs Clinton's candidacy? Genius. Total genius. And then there's the role that RT played. It has to be one of the most powerful international cable networks and must be watched by tens of millions of Americans. It was able to sway the election for one candidate. Think about that. A foreign TV news network is so influential in the US, it contributed significantly to Trump's win. Astounding. And why did only three of the vaunted 17 intel agencies sign off on this latest report. Are the other 14 still on Christmas break?
5
Wot? C'mon what else would you expect from an institutionalized government of self-enriching kleptocrats? Russian subs in Swedish waters - Russian missiles bringing down commercial passenger airplanes - annexation of the Crimea by stealth - polonium poisoning and outright assassination of Putin's political foes - the on-going de-stabilization of the Levant - etc. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and lays eggs like a duck - the chances are it is a duck. As our Donald might (should) say of the Russian response, were he so inclined - 'Huuugly Pathetic.' 'Crooked Russia' 'Fails bigly.' Now that's a Donald we could learn to love - OK, that's a stretch but it's a beginning.
And on and on the sore loser campaign continues. It's a very well rehearsed chorus that of the NY Times, Washington Post, the so-called "intelligence community," discredited and warmongering politicians a la McCain, Graham, et al. When will it end? When it becomes obvious to them that nobody, nowhere, believes their concocted fantasy and cheap anti-Russian and anti-Putin propaganda.
4
@Rafael Gonzalez
Sanford, Florida
You approve of Russian subversion then? And au contraire every member of the Senate armed services committee (Republican and Democrat) accepted the conclusions of the CIA, NSA and FBI and several polls I've seen put acceptance of their conclusions in the high 60's. Are you a Russian troll engaged in continuing subversion by any chance?
Sanford, Florida
You approve of Russian subversion then? And au contraire every member of the Senate armed services committee (Republican and Democrat) accepted the conclusions of the CIA, NSA and FBI and several polls I've seen put acceptance of their conclusions in the high 60's. Are you a Russian troll engaged in continuing subversion by any chance?
7
John:
Are you implying that patriotism means believing something that you know is not true? That to question something means you favor our country's opponents?
If anything, you're the one who sounds like a Russian troll.
Are you implying that patriotism means believing something that you know is not true? That to question something means you favor our country's opponents?
If anything, you're the one who sounds like a Russian troll.
2
Thank you, AACNY, our very words. We do love this land, but NOT its usurpers!
1
Hard to argue with this logic:
"It's basic psychology that when you're lying and hiding something, you react to exposure with angry sneering and sarcasm. Classic."
Seems irrefutable to me: If I say something bad about you, and you disagree, whatever I said must be true.
I think I get it.
"It's basic psychology that when you're lying and hiding something, you react to exposure with angry sneering and sarcasm. Classic."
Seems irrefutable to me: If I say something bad about you, and you disagree, whatever I said must be true.
I think I get it.
4
What does Trump gain by refusing to accept the CIA, FBI, and NSA report? He looks like an idiot in the Kremlin's pocket. If he is financially beholden to Moscow and the Russian mafia, wouldn't it make more sense to accept the intelligence report, support sanctions and curry favor with Putin under the cover of trying to improve relations with Russia with his Secretary of State?
2
Without an enemy, what do we even need the CIA for. It's their job to find one and keep it alive. It's called job security. What did we expect them to say? That it wasn't Russia? I can really tell we miss the Cold War. Face it we need each other to give us something to do. God forbid our government would spend it's time worrying about things here at home.
it would be much better for everyone involved if people responsible for our safety and security shall report how they managed to spend billions of taxpayers money allocated to them, and at the same time time and time again failed to do their job. they should be gone.
I trust Vladimir Putin more than I trust US intelligence. And without Snowden, Manning, and Assange, I would be living in the dark, today. US spooks have little credibility, I just don't believe them anymore.
3
If you believe that about those people you are in the dark on information or on some foreign payroll.
Do you trust and believe Trump?
You're not concerned about uttering the four continuous words "I trust Vladimir Putin?" This, I don't understand.
The headline should read "Russians and Trump ridicule U.S. intelligence agencies claims that Russia meddled to help Trump".
Donald Trump has debased everything he has ever touched. Now, even before being sworn in as president, he is debasing that office with ross sedition. The Democrats and whatever remaining Republicans who still put country over party must join together to impeach this turncoat and corrupt man before he does irreparable harm to the country.
Donald Trump has debased everything he has ever touched. Now, even before being sworn in as president, he is debasing that office with ross sedition. The Democrats and whatever remaining Republicans who still put country over party must join together to impeach this turncoat and corrupt man before he does irreparable harm to the country.
3
Why is this a headline? Of course the Russians will deny. How is any of this news.
2
In the wake of this clear evidence, and for the sake of the security of every American citizen, it is way past time for the Justice Department to subpoena Trump's tax returns...
All crimes have motives... And if history is any indicator, Trump's motives for doing or saying anything, have ALWAYS been their effect on his personal finances...
All crimes have motives... And if history is any indicator, Trump's motives for doing or saying anything, have ALWAYS been their effect on his personal finances...
2
This on-going non story is simply the Democrats trying to blame someone, anyone else for shooting themselves in the foot. It's a diversion from their own failures and the NYTimes is carrying that banner (surprise). And now all of a sudden the "progressive" (there's a irony) now are ranting and raving about Russia and making noise, torches in the street, crying for a what? new cold war, or a hot one? That's a hot one itself. And the Republicans seem to be the ones wanting peace with Russia. Talk about a turn around.
3
Oh. Well, if the Russians denied it, they must NOT have done it. They're known for their honest dealing, right? Aren't they?
1
Hope to hear soon on a solution to the problem of anyone hacking into any USA based systems. We are way overdue for massive investment in improving our nation's digital security infrastructure.
2
The Russia of today is not the Soviet Union Russia of pre-1991. It has lost control of its satellite countries and its economy is 1/16th the size of ours. World domination? It no longer has that ambition.
Trump recognizes that Russia is our natural ally- and in fact WAS our ally in WWII less than 7 decades ago. Remember? We share a common northern European and Christian heritage- though I know how much that irritates all you liberal/globalists.
Russia also has tremendous resources that the West could make use of. Russia is also victimized by radical Muslim terrorists- and to a far greater extent than they let on. And the Muslim world is right on their doorstep.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Trump "gets it."
Do you?
Trump recognizes that Russia is our natural ally- and in fact WAS our ally in WWII less than 7 decades ago. Remember? We share a common northern European and Christian heritage- though I know how much that irritates all you liberal/globalists.
Russia also has tremendous resources that the West could make use of. Russia is also victimized by radical Muslim terrorists- and to a far greater extent than they let on. And the Muslim world is right on their doorstep.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Trump "gets it."
Do you?
2
Interesting editing of history. In fact, steve, the USSR concluded a peace treaty with the Nazi's and set about invading Poland and Finland in 1939. The fact that they ended up being an ally of ours was only because the Nazis invaded Russia, abrogating their 1939 Nazi–Soviet Pact. Stalin was then desperate to stave off the Nazis. He had absolutely no other choice than to ally with us, repeat, no choice. The fact that their economy is much smaller is no impediment to Putin's effort to expend a huge portion of their wealth on military equipment that can wreak as much havoc as possible. His ultimate goal is to redress "the greatest geopolitical catastrophe" of the 20th century." - the collapse of the Soviet Union.
You can spout the globalist nonsense as much as you wish. The United States has an important role in this world that other countries just cannot fulfill.
You can spout the globalist nonsense as much as you wish. The United States has an important role in this world that other countries just cannot fulfill.
2
If you can't get passed the Nazis and World War II propaganda, and the Cold War view of the world, then you'll never "get it." There is a saying out there that applies here.
"Either lead, follow, or get out of the way."
Buzzy, please choose option #3.
"Either lead, follow, or get out of the way."
Buzzy, please choose option #3.
Buzzy, you're spot-on. Steve either deliberately ignores or actually approves of Putin's behavior vis-à-vis Crimea, the Ukraine and Syria. It's one thing to be a bad actor in the local community theatre production, and quite another in the world of realpolitik.
Donald Trump, Julian Assange and the Russian government are on the same side of the issue. Interesting!
4
Sure, and Kerry, the Palestinians and all the other Middle Eastern dictators are all on the same side of the Israeli settlement issue. That means nothing.
1
I keep hearing an echo from the presidential debates when the Republican candidate replied to Secretary Clinton: "No puppet. No puppet. You're the puppet." I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps he sees himself more specifically as a marionette, with Putin wielding the string cross-boards.
2
Well now there's a great way to have closer ties to the US --- make fun of its security agencies. Trump has met his match in the Kremlin.
In reference trumps tweet that "Russia respects the US now." Nobody, I mean nobody respects, America anymore, not even Americans. You gave the most corrupt party in modern American political history a free reign to be as corrupt and ruthless as they want. You gave them licence to do and act however they please. And you know what they'll say to you when it finally dawns on you that you are getting shafted by your own government, "The people gave us the mandate" to destroy their lives, and they're right. You did give them the mandate to screw you out of your healthcare and your social security. the difference now, is they and the American people won't have Obama to blame for it, you'll all have to take personal responsibility for allowing it to happen.
Yeah good luck with that cluster!
Yeah good luck with that cluster!
5
Not one iota of evidence in the declassified report so, of course, Russia ridicules the charge.
The public was told evidence (of some sort) would be forthcoming and nothing of the kind has been offered so far. Two government reports released to date and zilch. To boot, both are oddly padded with pointless material. Why?
The rousing of public hysteria prevents serious public discourse on US-Russian relations. Surely, such heightened emotions and paranoia are not in our national interest. If facts cannot be publicly provided, then the greatest caution should be employed in both reporting on the subject and in foreign policy responses.
The public was told evidence (of some sort) would be forthcoming and nothing of the kind has been offered so far. Two government reports released to date and zilch. To boot, both are oddly padded with pointless material. Why?
The rousing of public hysteria prevents serious public discourse on US-Russian relations. Surely, such heightened emotions and paranoia are not in our national interest. If facts cannot be publicly provided, then the greatest caution should be employed in both reporting on the subject and in foreign policy responses.
21
Yesterday -- me and my financial advisor
me: put my money in short term bonds, exit equities over the next year. DT is a much bigger menace to the world than W ever was.
advisor: we think the next 4 years will be good for equities
me: DT is an absolute menace
advisor: how so?
me: I don't know how this train wreck happens, I just know it's going to happen
advisor: what about international equities?
me: he is bringing everyone down not just US, he will walk away saying he was misunderstood and if we only listened to him.
advisor: I have people saying DT is the best thing ever
me: he is going to leave us worse than he left the debtors of his bankrupt companies. I will be back in the market after he is gone if there is anything to come back to.
This preposterous "To Russia With Love" thing has me hopeful we're watching the sequel to The Producers and he is thinking there will be no one to swear him in come Inauguration Day.
me: put my money in short term bonds, exit equities over the next year. DT is a much bigger menace to the world than W ever was.
advisor: we think the next 4 years will be good for equities
me: DT is an absolute menace
advisor: how so?
me: I don't know how this train wreck happens, I just know it's going to happen
advisor: what about international equities?
me: he is bringing everyone down not just US, he will walk away saying he was misunderstood and if we only listened to him.
advisor: I have people saying DT is the best thing ever
me: he is going to leave us worse than he left the debtors of his bankrupt companies. I will be back in the market after he is gone if there is anything to come back to.
This preposterous "To Russia With Love" thing has me hopeful we're watching the sequel to The Producers and he is thinking there will be no one to swear him in come Inauguration Day.
3
RSX is up about 50% with more to run.
Update us in a month.
Check trumps phone records and you will see he was aware of Russia's intervention before the election
2
The NYT once publisher of the Pentagon Papers is now itself published in Langley. The globalists are obviously terrified by a Trump presidency and a shift in their world order to concoct such a cock and bull story.
Trump won because of their hubris not Putin. Hillary Clinton was the worst candidate in a century, even Dukakis could have beaten Trump.
Trump won because of their hubris not Putin. Hillary Clinton was the worst candidate in a century, even Dukakis could have beaten Trump.
8
The intelligence report, if you read it, is silly. Even assuming the Russians are so much better at influencing elections than are we, don't we intervene in foreign elections? Perhaps that's why we assume the Russians do as well.
In any case, the Russians did not write Clinton's and Podesta's emails for them. Or did they?
In any case, the Russians did not write Clinton's and Podesta's emails for them. Or did they?
4
Shocking to have this conversation concerning Trump's complex ties to Russia and his profiting from their efforts to win the election on his behalf. The media chose to focus on Hillary's emails instead (don't they seem pretty benign at this point in time?). Trump is setting the tone for his tenure by being Putin's spokesperson. Trump is putting Russia and his personal business affairs ahead of security of the American people. Well, actually, not shocking, it is indeed predictable Trump behavior. It is just the beginning.
3
That was then; this is now!
"Didn't liberals totally discredit claims of a Red Menace--when they were comrades themselves in the 50's and 60s?"
Until not long ago, CIA bad. Now: CIA good. Not sure how long that will last -- probably about as long as CIA says what its supporters want to hear. Then CIA will go back to being bad.
Sort of like the Keystone XL Pipeline, or the Trans-Pacific Partnership, only in reverse. Once they were good. Now they're bad.
Now I remember! Gay marriage! That used to be bad, but now it's good.
It's also confusing!
"Didn't liberals totally discredit claims of a Red Menace--when they were comrades themselves in the 50's and 60s?"
Until not long ago, CIA bad. Now: CIA good. Not sure how long that will last -- probably about as long as CIA says what its supporters want to hear. Then CIA will go back to being bad.
Sort of like the Keystone XL Pipeline, or the Trans-Pacific Partnership, only in reverse. Once they were good. Now they're bad.
Now I remember! Gay marriage! That used to be bad, but now it's good.
It's also confusing!
3
It will be much easier to follow once Obama leaves office. He has caused progressives to swing wildly from one position to the extreme opposite when he alienates and becomes the object of scorn.
Trump they will all hate, consistently and vehemently.
Trump they will all hate, consistently and vehemently.
1
Whether true or not, this entire ordeal has been grossly mishandled by almost everyone talking about it. You cannot take accusations public if you cannot make the evidence public. Period. Now our choices are to embrace a "take our word for it" government or one whose legitimacy may be compromised. And how many would be willing to go to war over this? What a mess. Everyone you're reading about right now should be embarrassed.
5
Umm... Nytimes... You're doing it again. You're enabling them by reactively posting their position on the front page. The same way you reactively posted stories about the FBI investigation into emails and the details of the campaign emails. That's what they want you to do, and it's not helping. Report on this, yes. But sensationalizing is exactly what they want you to do.
1
Chris--Excellent comment. YOU should be "Reasonable" instead of the post that precedes yours.
1
The other frightening part is, how many embarrassing emails from the Republican side has Russia kept up their sleeves to leverage going forward...
2
I have to admit having had 24 hours to process that declassified report, it all is a bit weak on hard evidence. Its all circumstantial, the only evidence it provides is that our intelligence services are not up to the task. The conclusions are not developed and are not couched in careful language. If I submitted a journal article for publication (I'm an academic) with large sweeping claims such as "Putin wants to destabilise democracy and liberal world order" the paper would be rejected and ridiculed. Why can't we expect the same standard of our "intelligence" agencies. And why is someone as patently bombastic as Trump the only member of the political class with clout who is calling foul? Perhaps Putin isn't the enemy - God knows that our Syrian strategy isn't working. I'm really quite disappointed by this report I have to say. We seem to be asleep on the job, us liberals. Perhaps we truly did deserve to lose.
8
Trump was right about the media, which did not want him to become president, and now he's right about the democrats' Russian conspiracy narrative.
What you should be feeling is played by the Obama Administration. It's more than a coincidence that Pelosi is now blaming the media for focusing on Clinton's email instead of on the Russians.
Little by little Clinton's loss will be swallowed up by this narrative until she is, once again, ready for primetime. Progressives are the easiest to manipulate.
What you should be feeling is played by the Obama Administration. It's more than a coincidence that Pelosi is now blaming the media for focusing on Clinton's email instead of on the Russians.
Little by little Clinton's loss will be swallowed up by this narrative until she is, once again, ready for primetime. Progressives are the easiest to manipulate.
2
I'm with Reasonable.
We call on all 17 independent intel agencies to pitch in and to review the same data and to make an assessment? And they all agree..
Including the U.S. Coastguard? C'mon man.
I don't think so. Somebody is either speaking for the 17 agencies which should not be allowed, or telling them to what to say.
We call on all 17 independent intel agencies to pitch in and to review the same data and to make an assessment? And they all agree..
Including the U.S. Coastguard? C'mon man.
I don't think so. Somebody is either speaking for the 17 agencies which should not be allowed, or telling them to what to say.
3
Didn't Truman absolutely disbelieve the Soviet atomic test in August 1949? Didn't he have to be convinced and convinced again of the evidence? Truman, however, acted upon the evidence and, for better or worse, expanded atomic defenses. The difference here is that there is nothing in the president-elect that can flatly resemble intellectual curiosity, or the willingness to understand what actual evidence is. He cannot be convinced of an argument counter to his with an ego as insecure as one in which he brags of wealth he cannot prove he has. He is an ardent anti-intellectual, abusing the fundamental right to think that we all have long sought as a free nation and replacing it with a highly toxic, incompetent sheen. Worse, he aggressively attacks adherence to the very ideas embedded in the document that he is sworn to preserve, protect, and defend.
2
@David Rapaport: clarity such as yours is a rare thing. Thank you.
Ah yes, isn't this the same Russia that said reports of their government being complicit in the use of drugs by their Olympic athletes was ridiculous? I am sure that the twit-elect will side with them on that also.
5
Seriously? After all the hype, the evidence our intelligence agencies have amounts to Russia Today? Is this a joke?
3
What did Trump know about Russian operatives trying to influence the election and when did he know it... that's the question that everyone should be asking. If it was before we all knew, if it was before the FBI found out, before the CIA had its suspicions, then Trump is guilty of treason; if his campaign staff had any knowledge or contact with Russia during the elections, they should be arrested. It is that simple.... The GOP has to stop dancing around the obvious; if they cover up for Trump's Russian connections, they're complicit — participants in a coup.
2
Three simple words, Donald:
"Aiding and abetting."
"Aiding and abetting."
3
It wasn't Donald Trump who allowed this Russian hacking to go on for years.
1
@AACNY: "Allowed" it?
News flash: hacking can't be "allowed" nor "prevented"; the name of the game is minimizing the damages to one's own systems and deployment of countermeasures and, if desired, retaliatory hacks.
Hacking will be a daily activity so long as the Web exists and nefarious actors would rather focus their intellectual skills on causing harm rather than finding cures for diseases.
News flash: hacking can't be "allowed" nor "prevented"; the name of the game is minimizing the damages to one's own systems and deployment of countermeasures and, if desired, retaliatory hacks.
Hacking will be a daily activity so long as the Web exists and nefarious actors would rather focus their intellectual skills on causing harm rather than finding cures for diseases.
I believe the Russians have very incriminating info on Trump and are blackmailing him. Is it money, sex or something else I don't know. But they have him by the short hairs. We will never see the tax returns. Russia hacked Hillary to show Trumph what they could do to him if they wanted to.
3
NYT " The public report did not include evidence on the sources and methods used to collect the information about Mr. Putin and his associates that intelligence officials said was in a classified version."
This the crux of the matter with so-called classified intelligence reports released to the public, isn' it? lack of solid evidence to convince the American people about the allegedly Russian hacking affair.
The American people have been tricked many times before. Why believe in this hacking report when a high-stake political game is now being played in Washington DC?
Donald Trump will never accept those findings for obvious reasons. Neither millions that voted for him to become the 45 president.
This the crux of the matter with so-called classified intelligence reports released to the public, isn' it? lack of solid evidence to convince the American people about the allegedly Russian hacking affair.
The American people have been tricked many times before. Why believe in this hacking report when a high-stake political game is now being played in Washington DC?
Donald Trump will never accept those findings for obvious reasons. Neither millions that voted for him to become the 45 president.
8
Putin doesn't need Trump to help him as an accommodating President. He is already enjoying what this horrendous campaign and its unthinkable result have created, namely a US terribly weakened by deep political and social divisions with no solution in sight so far. The absurdity of an impending Trump presidency is a self-inflicted wound of tremendous magnitude, and it is sad that no serious voices are yet urging to put an end to it already and to start healing the system which has allowed such a deplorable character to occupy such an important office. Instead, it seems that everybody is waiting anxiously for the catastrophy to run its full course.
1
@SA: Indeed.
What's amazing about this entire episode is the emphasis placed on determining who did the hacking.
Whoever did it should be applauded for revealing how American elections actually work. Especially so, as no claim whatsoever has been lodged that the hacked documents are false or inaccurate. Americans simply cannot abide the fact that they have been outsmarted. Such a turn of events is an anathema for those whose stock in trade is proclaiming that they're number one… in everything!
To assuage the reality that perhaps they are not number one in everything, particularly collective intelligence, the conversation is turned to vilifying those who had the audacity to release these documents. Instead of examining the actual contents of the documents, the focus is on killing the messenger.
Americans don't want to acknowledge the preposterous notion that maybe their entire electoral process is not quite entirely on the up and up. And not so compliant to the image that they wish to project to the rest of the world!
The other amazing thing is how Americans don't like to see a reflection of themselves. A reflection that echoes that which much of the rest of the world already sees. Donald and Melania Trump quintessentially embody many of those attributes
It's not always easy to look into the mirror.
Whoever did it should be applauded for revealing how American elections actually work. Especially so, as no claim whatsoever has been lodged that the hacked documents are false or inaccurate. Americans simply cannot abide the fact that they have been outsmarted. Such a turn of events is an anathema for those whose stock in trade is proclaiming that they're number one… in everything!
To assuage the reality that perhaps they are not number one in everything, particularly collective intelligence, the conversation is turned to vilifying those who had the audacity to release these documents. Instead of examining the actual contents of the documents, the focus is on killing the messenger.
Americans don't want to acknowledge the preposterous notion that maybe their entire electoral process is not quite entirely on the up and up. And not so compliant to the image that they wish to project to the rest of the world!
The other amazing thing is how Americans don't like to see a reflection of themselves. A reflection that echoes that which much of the rest of the world already sees. Donald and Melania Trump quintessentially embody many of those attributes
It's not always easy to look into the mirror.
1
Absolutely!
"This man must be impeded until we know who he is."
Just curious -- who do you think should run things while we're busy figuring out who he is? Clinton? Obama? Gary Johnson? Jill Stein?
I've got it -- let's have an election and let the people decide! That will be very "democratic."
"This man must be impeded until we know who he is."
Just curious -- who do you think should run things while we're busy figuring out who he is? Clinton? Obama? Gary Johnson? Jill Stein?
I've got it -- let's have an election and let the people decide! That will be very "democratic."
2
Ok, everyone. If you've been following my comments over the years, you know what little regard with which I hold this newspaper and its reporters. That said, this is a remarkably fair article. Andrew Higgins has done a nice job. Now, I just hope that he can keep it. Perhaps it's the lame-duck status of the POTUS that has lifted the yoke of sycophancy from Mr. Higgins and his employer. Perhaps a tinge of guilt for the past. In the old days the Soviets, as Mr. Higgins tells us, would make up phony FBI reports or slanderous claims. Today, they just need to tell the truth and it works.
4
We deserve the ridicule, but most of it should be directed at the mainstream news media and the politicians who waved the flag and defended the unquestionable integrity and honesty of the intelligence agencies that gave Bush all the fake intelligence he asked for and Abu Ghraib, to boot.
The media continues to pump us with evidence-free fake news and red baiting, in avoidance of the truths and mistakes and corruption revealed by the election of a clownish, lying, billionaire racist as President. Well done, sirs. Keep it up for 4 long years and perhaps nothing will have to change in the halls of Democratic power.
The media continues to pump us with evidence-free fake news and red baiting, in avoidance of the truths and mistakes and corruption revealed by the election of a clownish, lying, billionaire racist as President. Well done, sirs. Keep it up for 4 long years and perhaps nothing will have to change in the halls of Democratic power.
3
No one seems able to shame Donald Trump.
This is a nauseating scenario day after day.
His election has begun another long national nightmare for this nation.
I thought for sure he'd be reined in after the heads of intelligence traversed into Trump Tower.
The sense of a downward slide with no end in sight for this nation is palpable.
This is a nauseating scenario day after day.
His election has begun another long national nightmare for this nation.
I thought for sure he'd be reined in after the heads of intelligence traversed into Trump Tower.
The sense of a downward slide with no end in sight for this nation is palpable.
1
Of course the Russians deny this. They denied that they were in Ukraine. They denied that one of their weapon systems shot down the Malaysian airliner over Ukraine. That's their modus operandi. Has been since forever. Works well for them.
2
@Irene: shhhhh! Don't tell the RT and Fox followers -- they'd never believe it.
"Mark Galeotti, an expert on Russian intelligence agencies at the Institute of International Relations in Prague, said he was skeptical of the accusation that Mr. Putin had ordered the hacking."
C'mon, Mark! Of course Vlad did it! The CIA "assessed" it. What more do you need?
C'mon, Mark! Of course Vlad did it! The CIA "assessed" it. What more do you need?
2
What's with all the Russian support in these comments? Trump, you certainly have done your job for Putin.
4
I agree with Mr. Galeotti. Far more important was the failure of the Democrats to win states in the middle of the nation away from the coasts. Over the last eight years the Democratic leaders should have been in Appalachia and the midwest giving hope to the underemployed by having a specific toolkit of programs. As Lincoln said the only way this country will be defeated is from the inside. Yes,the Russians hacked, but that wasn't the difference. I think most Russians envy the freedom in the U.S. even if they won't admit it. Putin won't be there forever. Neither will Assad, Edrogan,or ISIS. We just need to have patience.
2
As so famously stated (The Russians) "are the same people" who denied the Olympic doping scandal only to admit guilt in the face incontrovertible evidence. So, when Trump's tax returns are revealed, and, when further evidence reveals additional details of Russia's hacking, ONLY then will we hear admissions of guilt and complicity. But, as some of us know, sociopathy knows no decency (in this sense Trump and Putin act as identical twins). So, in the face of overwhelming evidence, Trump will predictably attack the attackers and his craven followers and the gutless media will simply '"move on." The truth is, something so bad will have to happen for things to change. When a war breaks out far beyond Trump's capacity to manage (read, George Bush), when nuclear bombs drop, then the craven and gutless will cry out, "How could this have happened?" The answer is because of you. NO Democrat or self-respecting person should meet or support Trump until we see how he actually handles the job. We know he's a bully, a con man and a pathological liar. Let's see if he's a fascist or a sadistic authoritarian (torture works!). NO ONE knows how this will go. NO ONE.
3
@Thomas Moore: AMEN.
Will someone check Trumps phone records for the past 2 years. They will see, i'm betting, a number of calls with Russia, He was in on the hacking. An act of treason in my law books. Why else would he want to put this episode behind him so quickly.
2
Better yet check Manafort's phone records. And don't forget Bannon. He originated the tactic of employing hackers and trolls to target his enemies.
Russia outsmarts the amateurish Obama administration, looking like the adult in the room. Whatever Mr. Clapper and the NYT say, we know that whomever hack the DNC was not a great expert in computer hacking using the most basic, simple and easy to detect fishing email scam. By no mean that constitutes a "sophisticated cuber attack". Professional state sponsored hackers are far harder to detect and trace.
This so called "attack" was more whistle-blowing, doing us a service, airing the true nature of the corrupt Democratic party using their own words. Cyber attack is taking down power grids or stealing nuclear codes.
Naturally incompetent Obama administration didn't seek a congressional hearing when a real cyber attacker stole millions of record of federal employees. No one on the NYT demanded to investigate why has our government failed to protect us.
Indeed the NYT is guilty of precisely what it accuses Mr. Trump of; being loyally blind to his ideology as to ignore the facts, or tribalism. Like taking Mr. Clapper's testimony as God's word, forgetting that he lied few times under oath to Congress and the American public. The NYT (and liberals) is only sensitive to Mr. Trump lies, only when 'our guy' lie under oath, that's forgiven and forgotten.
This so called "attack" was more whistle-blowing, doing us a service, airing the true nature of the corrupt Democratic party using their own words. Cyber attack is taking down power grids or stealing nuclear codes.
Naturally incompetent Obama administration didn't seek a congressional hearing when a real cyber attacker stole millions of record of federal employees. No one on the NYT demanded to investigate why has our government failed to protect us.
Indeed the NYT is guilty of precisely what it accuses Mr. Trump of; being loyally blind to his ideology as to ignore the facts, or tribalism. Like taking Mr. Clapper's testimony as God's word, forgetting that he lied few times under oath to Congress and the American public. The NYT (and liberals) is only sensitive to Mr. Trump lies, only when 'our guy' lie under oath, that's forgiven and forgotten.
4
This is absolute politically driven nonsense by the US. Firstly, it is unethical to release such a report just before a new President is coming to office, secondly, there is very weak real evidence, most of it is "judgement" and we all know how that goes. As a person who voted for Obama twice.. i am dismayed at this.
9
Predictable scenario: Trump will use Russia's response as proof that there was no impact on the election because of the Russians' hacking. So, Trump will put more faith in Russian intelligence than in US intelligence. This guy is calling a US senator a clown and is preoccupied by his TV ratings more than he is real issues. He's got to go.
1
"Trumps new tweets say we should work together with Russia, and that Russians will respect us much more under his administration. Trump is committing treason."
Working together with Russia is treason? No matter what -- treason?
Working together with Russia is treason? No matter what -- treason?
1
Clearwater is not happy that a shill of Putin and the formidable Russian covert apparatus is becoming the president of this country that my dad fought in 3 wars for.
Clearwater wants to wake up from this nightmare.
But Clearwater is grateful that his father is no longer around to see this disgraceful situation unfolding.
Clearwater wants to wake up from this nightmare.
But Clearwater is grateful that his father is no longer around to see this disgraceful situation unfolding.
1
Perhaps the American intelligence agencies should investigate whether Russia influenced the 2008 and 2012 elections. After all, President Obama has done more to help with Russian expansionism in Crimea, Ukraine and Syria, as well as reduce American influence world-wide than either of his opponents in both races could have ever imagined.
4
It's fascinating that so many believe what they are told to believe.
6
Billy, I agree. It's mob mentality with these liberals. I'm actually shocked, because these liberals consider themselves educated.
I'm a former liberal, having been raised in Hawaii. I was brainwashed, and it took years to realize that I could think for myself.
What a process. I don't align with any political party anymore, as I prefer to think for myself.
The liberals are actually far easier led than the conservatives, though. This fact is the most shocking conclusion from this election. I have grown to respect conservatives far more than liberals, but I remain outside of either camp.
I'm a former liberal, having been raised in Hawaii. I was brainwashed, and it took years to realize that I could think for myself.
What a process. I don't align with any political party anymore, as I prefer to think for myself.
The liberals are actually far easier led than the conservatives, though. This fact is the most shocking conclusion from this election. I have grown to respect conservatives far more than liberals, but I remain outside of either camp.
Oh, I disagree that conservatives are not as easily led. Look at the number of conservative "Christians" who were recently led to vote for a profane, adulterous, 3-time- divorcee who called his wife and daughter pieces of a**. Now that was some leading.
The Kremlin's denials are about as convincing as Chris Christie in Bridgegate...
2
"We are suppose to buy into this story that 'did not include concrete evidence on the sources and methods used to collect information'[?]"
Yep. That's the story we're expected to buy.
Frankly, I can do without an evidence-free "assessment" by some CIA clown. We've been hearing evidence-free "assessments" from CIA clowns for many years now -- we even go to war based on them! I was looking forward to some actual evidence this time, so I could make my own "assessment" for a change.
Yep. That's the story we're expected to buy.
Frankly, I can do without an evidence-free "assessment" by some CIA clown. We've been hearing evidence-free "assessments" from CIA clowns for many years now -- we even go to war based on them! I was looking forward to some actual evidence this time, so I could make my own "assessment" for a change.
3
The naivette of Trumps supporters is staggaring. Putin, the decieving fox, is playing with them like a bunch of kids. This master lyer who runs a semi failed country, has managed to hypnotize Trump and his stupid accolites with his autocratic leadership. If Trump wants to partner with Putin against China he is doing a grave mistake. China, not Russia, is the country that I wouldn't mess with.
3
The Obama administration is indeed working very hard to make the US look ridiculous.
They go on and on and on repeating - the US is vulnerable, the Russians are smarter than we are, the Russians are all powerful to influence US elections, etc, etc, etc.
I have never seen the leader of a country work so hard to advertise the superiority and power of an adversary nation.
Sad.
They go on and on and on repeating - the US is vulnerable, the Russians are smarter than we are, the Russians are all powerful to influence US elections, etc, etc, etc.
I have never seen the leader of a country work so hard to advertise the superiority and power of an adversary nation.
Sad.
5
Trump is the one preferring a foreign leader who is a dictator to a US President.
Oh if only we lived in Westeros and both Trump and Putin received the gold crowns they so desire. The hot melted ones.
There is no evidence that anything happened. America already knew that Clinton was a liar and the DNC revelations were just further proof. If outside forces tried to influence public opinion, they did a poor job. Clinton got more votes than Donald Trump. Indeed, if Clinton had won, we would be paying little attention to this but would instead be preparing for World War 3. Urban liberals ought to be thankful for such a result because in such a conflict, they would be the first to die in the next world war.
5
Can we expect any time soon report with technical details not this student's work on "How I spent my summer"? We need server intrusion details, techniques used, IPs and their relation to someone who speaks Russian. What I read reminds me of late Soviet Union where propaganda substituted real work in state organs.
3
Like Trump said, we really have too many problems as is to whip up a 'fake' drama with Russia. I am so embarrassed for our country!! Politicians, control yourselves!
2
Broadcasting lies is propaganda, broadcasting correct information is journalism.
If any real evidence proving Putin's involvement ever turns up, he should be given a Pulitzer Prize for breaking the story.
Any nation that can be harmed by the truth being revealed, is no democracy, and any organization that can't print this comment, is no newspaper.
If any real evidence proving Putin's involvement ever turns up, he should be given a Pulitzer Prize for breaking the story.
Any nation that can be harmed by the truth being revealed, is no democracy, and any organization that can't print this comment, is no newspaper.
2
500 US media outlets endorsed Clinton, 25 endorsed Trump. Not a bad performance by RT to outweigh that massive power! Despite the fact that RT by no means refrained from reporting Trumps worst eccentricities.
Henry Kissinger may lack a few virtues, but he still has a functioning brain. He observed that everybody took for granted that Clinton would win the election, with overwhelming probability. Then he couldn't see what the Russian government would have to gain from creating trouble and annoyances with the upcoming US president, by hostile action. (It would be if the Russians were known for their lack of tactical skills. The opposite seems more apparent.)
Henry Kissinger may lack a few virtues, but he still has a functioning brain. He observed that everybody took for granted that Clinton would win the election, with overwhelming probability. Then he couldn't see what the Russian government would have to gain from creating trouble and annoyances with the upcoming US president, by hostile action. (It would be if the Russians were known for their lack of tactical skills. The opposite seems more apparent.)
5
I would recommend everyone to read the report that contains the latest updates on Russia's alleged hacking of the DNC. Keeping in mind that it is drafted by the people who said Saddam's WMD were a slam dunk.
It makes it clear that Russia preferred Trump to Clinton, and that is a choice shared by half of the Americans. But it does not make it at all clear that Russian hackers were responsible for this leak and certainly not that Putin or his entourage were involved.
Usually I find the NYT's comments very good, balanced and well informed. Evidently when it comes to Russia even the best are waylaid by decades of Russophobia, drunk, in the USA, with mother's milk.
It makes it clear that Russia preferred Trump to Clinton, and that is a choice shared by half of the Americans. But it does not make it at all clear that Russian hackers were responsible for this leak and certainly not that Putin or his entourage were involved.
Usually I find the NYT's comments very good, balanced and well informed. Evidently when it comes to Russia even the best are waylaid by decades of Russophobia, drunk, in the USA, with mother's milk.
5
No one in U.S. intelligence EVER said WMD a "slam dunk." Cheney and his neocons manipulated for political purposes what they were told. Revealing the evidence destroys the source with intelligence analysis. It is more than enough we have U.S. intelligence telling us Russians attacked America. Don't you see? This is what destroys countries when cronies like Trump and the GOP care about nothing but money and destroy trust in its institutions.
Everyone seems to have forgotten how the Trump campaign deliberately weakened language against Russia in the GOP platform during the GOP convention.
Russia erupted with glee after Trump's win and then there was this reported in the Washington Post that "Markov, the unofficial Kremlin adviser, suggested Wednesday [Nov. 9th]that Russia “may have helped” WikiLeaks, the anti-secrecy group that published the emails, but he did not specify how he knew or what that meant." https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/11/09/yes-we-did-...
On November 10, the Times reported that Russian officials were in contact with Trump's entourage during the campaign.
And now that the story is blowing up, we have all three parties, Trump, the Kremlin and Assange all working feverishly to undermine
Russia erupted with glee after Trump's win and then there was this reported in the Washington Post that "Markov, the unofficial Kremlin adviser, suggested Wednesday [Nov. 9th]that Russia “may have helped” WikiLeaks, the anti-secrecy group that published the emails, but he did not specify how he knew or what that meant." https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/11/09/yes-we-did-...
On November 10, the Times reported that Russian officials were in contact with Trump's entourage during the campaign.
And now that the story is blowing up, we have all three parties, Trump, the Kremlin and Assange all working feverishly to undermine
2
As Trump and Russians are now in synch to discredit US developed information, who in the world is going to believe the US sources now? What a humiliation! This is not only creating substantial morale issues. If someone takes a risk to give important info affecting US security, why would they put their lives at risk now? They know that our information security forces are thoroughly discredited. Trump has made the world more dangerous, and put US more at risk.
I'm not knee-jerk anti-Russian. However, when politicians start to ridicule foreign intelligence services it makes me think, there's a there there.
2
Could the fact that Putin, Trump and Russians are whites allow Republicans to accept a Russian preferred candidate for the US Presidency? Wouldn't this be a gigantic transformation of the GOP? The Party of Reagan who won the cold war now have a leader who threw his own intelligence agencies under the bus for Putin. What else wouldnt Trump do for Putin? Pulling the US out of NATO?
1
It is truly amazing how many dupes there are among the Republicans these days acting as apologists for the Russians! They will seemingly say ANYTHING to distract from the key issue here: the Muscovian candidate who will be taking office in less than 2 weeks. Compared to that issue, Clinton's sliminess or the CIA's duplicity during the cold war or the shifting tides in the NYT's editorial offices or any number of other red herrings just do not concern me very much.
The lovefest going on between Trump and Putin is what concerns me.
That worries me even more than the fact that the President's cabinet is going to be packed with shady CEO's, which is not at all good but pretty much to be expected. 'Drain the swamp' indeed.
The lovefest going on between Trump and Putin is what concerns me.
That worries me even more than the fact that the President's cabinet is going to be packed with shady CEO's, which is not at all good but pretty much to be expected. 'Drain the swamp' indeed.
3
THANK YOU from Moscow, for electing someone for the White House who will suppport the Kremlin and Putin always frst! Also we are very pleased in Moscow that the new Secretary of State is one of our best men and the closest Putin friend, too.
We are happy that now russian interest have priority in the White House - well done americans!
We are happy that now russian interest have priority in the White House - well done americans!
1
Why is this front page news? What did you expect them to say? This is more in the category: "Dog Bites Man", isn't it?
2
So since the election we have seen our incoming President continue to ignore or try to redirect the public's attention concerning intelligence from our national security organizations outlining Russian hacking of our election and collusion with Wikileaks, we have the actual Wikileaks founder being interviewed by pro-Trump TV personality, Sean Hannity, also denying that Russia gave him the info and who also attacked Obama for trying to legitimize Trump. And now Russian officials are hysterically rebutting the charge. Isn't it strange that the very actors implicated in the hack, the hackers, the recipient of the information and its beneficiary, are now front and center trying to undermine the US governments effort to defend our national sovereignty and democratic process? And looking forward, does anyone have any faith that Mr. Trump will work to protect us from future attacks from Moscow after what we have seen during the election and since November 8th.
1
America is in decline. Matter of time before it becomes a puppet of a foreign power. Trump may well be the stooge - he already acts that way. It was a good run folks but it is pretty much over.
1
Thank you american voters for making RUSSIA GREAT AGAIN!
In the Kremlin and whole russia we celebrate and praise the american voting so much and still can not believe that you did choose really our man for the White House, as well as now the Secretary of State will be on our side as closest friend of our wonderful President Putin. Thank you America!
In the Kremlin and whole russia we celebrate and praise the american voting so much and still can not believe that you did choose really our man for the White House, as well as now the Secretary of State will be on our side as closest friend of our wonderful President Putin. Thank you America!
1
Today, Al Jazeera published an undercover video of an Israeli diplomat in London conspiring with an aide to a Conservative MP to "take down" several British MP's who were viewed as hostile to Israel. This is direct evidence of illegal interference in a country's politics, yet the NYT, which has been fulminating against unproven Russian attempts to influence US elections, refuses to publish the story. And if it does, it will be buried somewhere so that no one will read it. That is the true story here.
On 20th Jan 2017, Putin will become the most powerful man on earth. Well done, Americans.
3
In the long history of deplorable articles published by the New York Times, this must rank near the top. Reaslising that it would be impossible to write a full-length article to substantiate the present-day allegations, the writers cynically decided to recycle well-worn history which has very little relevance today.
This publication has reduced itself to a joke.
This publication has reduced itself to a joke.
5
It's unbelievable how many false equivalencies are posted here. Somehow, we're to believe the election was fair when one candidate's life and campaign were turned inside out and we have virtually no corresponding information about Trump, his campaign, or his associates.
I'd like all the RNC emails please, and ten years of Trump's tax returns, and all his staff emails. I'm sure the Russians have all that, but somehow didn't get it to Wikileaks's. I'd also like to see all the hours of vulgar and racist Access Hollywood and Apprentice recordings rumored to be out there. And I'd like Judicial Watch to help all the women abused by Trump publicly pursue their cases, just like they pursued the Clintons for 30 years. It should be fine to release everything now since apparently Trump's apologists believe it wouldn't have mattered anyway.
The reason most Americans voted against Trump, and are upset he won, is because we know he'll go down as one of the worst presidents in our history. You bet we're angry. That's what happens when a very close election is stolen by the actions of Putin, FBI director Comey, endless congressional hearings over nothing of substance, a stupid and inconsequential email server, and countless other inanities. HRC wasn't perfect. No one is. And no one could withstand the scrutiny she faced. Not saint Bernie, and certainly not Gary Johnson or Jill Stein.
And there's no factual universe where Trump even belongs in a contest for dog catcher.
I'd like all the RNC emails please, and ten years of Trump's tax returns, and all his staff emails. I'm sure the Russians have all that, but somehow didn't get it to Wikileaks's. I'd also like to see all the hours of vulgar and racist Access Hollywood and Apprentice recordings rumored to be out there. And I'd like Judicial Watch to help all the women abused by Trump publicly pursue their cases, just like they pursued the Clintons for 30 years. It should be fine to release everything now since apparently Trump's apologists believe it wouldn't have mattered anyway.
The reason most Americans voted against Trump, and are upset he won, is because we know he'll go down as one of the worst presidents in our history. You bet we're angry. That's what happens when a very close election is stolen by the actions of Putin, FBI director Comey, endless congressional hearings over nothing of substance, a stupid and inconsequential email server, and countless other inanities. HRC wasn't perfect. No one is. And no one could withstand the scrutiny she faced. Not saint Bernie, and certainly not Gary Johnson or Jill Stein.
And there's no factual universe where Trump even belongs in a contest for dog catcher.
4
In Russia we are used to getting lies and pro Putin propaganda day and night by the Kremlin propaganda machinery. Our rich Kremlin was already in the past succesful to get "support" everywhere. We have a former western chancellor paid WELL by Gazprom etc.... and when you read the news carefully, you see that also many other politicians are more strong in saying how nice and good russia is, than they fight seriously for stopping the russian killings in Syria or Ukraine.... Now the Kremlin just managed to implement several fitting persons in and around the White House (Trump, Tillerson, Bannon, etc...). In russia WE know whose interest they will stand for - and you could already see how they start to turn nonsense into "truth" via "Twitter" etc.... Every country will get what the people voted for - we voted for Putin, you wanted Trump. Now you will see more close how the russian propaganda machinery will work, not only via Twitter...good luck from Moscow! Everybody will get finally what he deserves and what he/she voted for!
2
Donald J. Trump does not need to be sworn in if it is proven that he is
a traitor; A traitor is someone who deliberately breaks his right to be
a US citizen...and in my view Donald J. Trump may have committed this
crime...if it is proven that he is in collusion with Vladimir Putin and has
sold out our nation with a subversion to Russia.
A traitor is a subversive.
a traitor; A traitor is someone who deliberately breaks his right to be
a US citizen...and in my view Donald J. Trump may have committed this
crime...if it is proven that he is in collusion with Vladimir Putin and has
sold out our nation with a subversion to Russia.
A traitor is a subversive.
2
Evidence, evidence? We don't need no stinkin' evidence. Russia bad, we good.
5
Meanwhile, Americans of every stripe are still waiting for trump's tax returns. The lack of this disclosure becomes more and more meaningful by the day.
3
"What is most troubling to me is that I did not expect this unethical behavior during the campaign from the DNC and Donna Brazile, who I've lost all respect for..."
I too was quite troubled by Donna Brazile's behavior (a DNC official who "fed" debate questions to Clinton's campaign in advance). What bothered me more, though, was the fact that Clinton's campaign accepted Brazile's offers. She wouldn't have kept offering to feed them debate questions if they'd just told her "Thanks but not thanks." Obviously they welcomed what she was offering, and so she told them she could get even more for them.
Very troubling.
Debate questions obviously are useful only if they make their way to someone who will actually be debating -- i.e. HRC. So if her "campaign" was cooperating with Brazile, HRC herself must have known what Brazile was doing.
I too was quite troubled by Donna Brazile's behavior (a DNC official who "fed" debate questions to Clinton's campaign in advance). What bothered me more, though, was the fact that Clinton's campaign accepted Brazile's offers. She wouldn't have kept offering to feed them debate questions if they'd just told her "Thanks but not thanks." Obviously they welcomed what she was offering, and so she told them she could get even more for them.
Very troubling.
Debate questions obviously are useful only if they make their way to someone who will actually be debating -- i.e. HRC. So if her "campaign" was cooperating with Brazile, HRC herself must have known what Brazile was doing.
3
I read the Intelligence Report which contained zero facts, merely innuendo and propaganda. The reason the 'facts' were classified is because, the last time they revealed 'evidence', it consisted of vials of non-existent anthrax and satellite images of nuclear weapons facilities, the only problem being that the IAEA confirmed those same facilities had been completely destroyed by the IAEA after Desert Storm.
So the U.S. military-industrial complex wants to increase tensions with Russia on the basis of hacking which is an activity practised by all intelligence agencies? If the CIA can hack the German Chancellor's mobile phone, what chance do 'enemies' have?
And Russian politicians are to be pronounced guilty, simply because they 'cheered' the victory of the only Western political leader who hasn't demonized them?
Judging by the comments on this and other threads, the vast majority of NYT readers has failed to recognize events for what they are: Domestic Realpolitik in which the Democratic nominee slammed the FBI and the CIA is slamming the President-elect. U.S. Intelligence, not Russian motives, are a mess.
So the U.S. military-industrial complex wants to increase tensions with Russia on the basis of hacking which is an activity practised by all intelligence agencies? If the CIA can hack the German Chancellor's mobile phone, what chance do 'enemies' have?
And Russian politicians are to be pronounced guilty, simply because they 'cheered' the victory of the only Western political leader who hasn't demonized them?
Judging by the comments on this and other threads, the vast majority of NYT readers has failed to recognize events for what they are: Domestic Realpolitik in which the Democratic nominee slammed the FBI and the CIA is slamming the President-elect. U.S. Intelligence, not Russian motives, are a mess.
22
No Trump fan, but that doesn't matter. Interfering in an election is still an attack upon the United States at a time of peace, when the only threat we pose to a ruthless autocrat is our democratic values. We must defend ourselves and our allies, especially those that share a border with Russia. He will keep on doing this otherwise. Foes like ISIS will kill more Americans if we wimp out. Much as I may deplore Mr. Trump, I support our new President as he makes this clear later this week.
1
Where are Trump's taxes? He deserves no break- there are questions abt his dealings in Russia that the public deserves to know. A rush job and improper vetting by the GOP is also unacceptable. He needs to play by US rules.
What the Russians are laughing at is what the media is making out of the assertion of the E-Mail hackings. With the way Trump was treated by the media, someone was bound to step forward and try to even things out a bit, that it was the Russians certainly is no reason to claim a pact between the two leaders exists, or that an act of war had been committed. This is a case of the victim, becoming the bigger perpetrator in the case by taking the witness stand, with the likely hood that the results will do more harm than good in the eyes of the jury.
2
Remember when the Russians said it was absolutely ridiculous conspiracy theory the western media were reporting the 'little green men' invading crimea were Russian soldiers?
Yep. Turns out they were actually Russian special forces.
Yep. Turns out they were actually Russian special forces.
1
Let's condemn Russia for revealing the truth about Hilligula, things mass media kept buried.
And let's continue ignoring the influence of Israel.
And let's continue ignoring the influence of Israel.
1
This really isn't difficult to understand - simply follow the money.
Donald Trump has a financial interest in cultivating a friendly, working relationship with Putin. By instituting a kleptocracy in Russia, Putin and his cronies have systematically looted the country, accumulating billions of dollars while leaving most Russians living in poverty. If the true extent of Putin's accumulated wealth could ever be determined, he may well be the wealthiest man on the planet.
Putin is DJT's role model. With the aid of his Sec'y of State Rex Tillerson (and his obvious conflicts of interest in extracting oil money from Russia for Exxon and himself) Trump and his tight cadre of billionaires hope to use his presidency to do the same. Simply put, Russia can do no wrong in Trump's eyes and his is willing to jeopardize our national security to enrich himself via his buddy-buddy relationship with Putin. It is not difficult to understand why Trump will never release his tax returns.
The Apprentice was merely an appetizer. The U.S. Presidency is Donald Trump's main course.
Donald Trump has a financial interest in cultivating a friendly, working relationship with Putin. By instituting a kleptocracy in Russia, Putin and his cronies have systematically looted the country, accumulating billions of dollars while leaving most Russians living in poverty. If the true extent of Putin's accumulated wealth could ever be determined, he may well be the wealthiest man on the planet.
Putin is DJT's role model. With the aid of his Sec'y of State Rex Tillerson (and his obvious conflicts of interest in extracting oil money from Russia for Exxon and himself) Trump and his tight cadre of billionaires hope to use his presidency to do the same. Simply put, Russia can do no wrong in Trump's eyes and his is willing to jeopardize our national security to enrich himself via his buddy-buddy relationship with Putin. It is not difficult to understand why Trump will never release his tax returns.
The Apprentice was merely an appetizer. The U.S. Presidency is Donald Trump's main course.
2
Hilarious to see the fellow travelers of the likes of Castro, Ortega, Lenin and Ho Chi Mihn calling out the red menace. Proof positive of an agenda-driven publisher with no moral compass, no objectivity, false equivalency as religion and a deep-seated problem of self-importance. Stay on your meds and double up on the couch time. You need it.
2
.
The biggest blunder was committed by the Democrats, who wrote emails, in which they incriminated themselves.
Now that outsiders have uncovered the Democrats' dirty laundry, the latter are putting on a self-righteous, indignant face.
Disgusting hypocrisy.
The biggest blunder was committed by the Democrats, who wrote emails, in which they incriminated themselves.
Now that outsiders have uncovered the Democrats' dirty laundry, the latter are putting on a self-righteous, indignant face.
Disgusting hypocrisy.
3
The Obama Administration has been producing these false narratives for years. He's not the saint everyone likes to believe he is, and his Administration has hardly been scandal free. Think Hillary's emails and now Russian hacking of elections (this wasn't new Russian behavior) on his watch.
1
Where are the details about which Russian hacked, and where it impacted the Electoral College outcome. The Times seems to just trust CIA. What happened to the role of legislative and press in checking CIA power, or at least investigating their claims?
Do any Democrats know who Senator Frank Church was? Has history been erased in US re the long record of CIA deceit?
Do any Democrats know who Senator Frank Church was? Has history been erased in US re the long record of CIA deceit?
2
I find it both more believable and more likely, due to motive, means, and opportunity, that our own corrupted CIA and the malicious and unethical Republican party would have spied upon the Clinton campaign and even interfered with the election, than to think that "The Russians Did It."
And I believe it even more and think it more likely, the more I hear the CIA and Senate Republicans pushing the "Russians Did It" narrative.
And I believe it even more and think it more likely, the more I hear the CIA and Senate Republicans pushing the "Russians Did It" narrative.
1
I think Obama and his admin party are more dangerous to the United States then Putin. We really dodge a bullet keeping Hillary out. MAGA!
2
The exaggerated outrage of the official U.S. position reminds me of the statement in 1929 by Secretary of State Henry Stimson, that "gentlemen do not read each other's mail"!
3
You mean the Russians don't admit what they did? Why is this news? Who cares what they have to say?
3
I know others hate Hillary because she is liberal, because she is a woman etc but my dislike of her and Bill involves 35 years of following their corruption from Arkansas, where after 8 years as Governor he had the 49th of 50 poorest State (in terms of life quality) in the Union and yet this disastrous result made him the pick of the new anti FDR DNC right of Center triangulators. How they and their acolytes, like Blair in the UK and Persson in Sweden of made permanent the right wing revolution of the Thatcher Reagan 'trickle down' era whose rot got us to the mess we are in today.
The question YOU need to ask yourself is why are all the losers of the past election, whether of the RNC OR DNC, united in their efforts to do that which Hillary herself said was wrong, that is question the legitimacy of a legal US election, some thing she is now doing herself with the help of those who did their best to destroy Obama (McConnell, McCain, Ryan) ?? Or more to the point how Ryan, McConnell and McCain as former bitter anti Obama saboteurs now unite with the losing Hillary campaign in their desire to create a soft coup against idiot Trump to preserve that one thing they care about most; the New Cold War matched only by the same 'don't question the honesty of the CIA' patriotism last pushed by former enemy but now role model Joe McCarthy??
The only proven hack was OUR hacking ally Merkel of Germany. The only proven cheating in this election has been that of the DNC sabotaging Sanders!
The question YOU need to ask yourself is why are all the losers of the past election, whether of the RNC OR DNC, united in their efforts to do that which Hillary herself said was wrong, that is question the legitimacy of a legal US election, some thing she is now doing herself with the help of those who did their best to destroy Obama (McConnell, McCain, Ryan) ?? Or more to the point how Ryan, McConnell and McCain as former bitter anti Obama saboteurs now unite with the losing Hillary campaign in their desire to create a soft coup against idiot Trump to preserve that one thing they care about most; the New Cold War matched only by the same 'don't question the honesty of the CIA' patriotism last pushed by former enemy but now role model Joe McCarthy??
The only proven hack was OUR hacking ally Merkel of Germany. The only proven cheating in this election has been that of the DNC sabotaging Sanders!
2
I wonder what Joe McCarthy would have thought of a Donald Trump? My bet is, if the two of them believed they could advance one another's careers, they would have been the best of friends.
1
Oh well, now that the Russians say they had nothing to do with any hacking of information that was slanted to attack Hillary's credibility and absolve Trump of any wrongdoing I guess we can all put this "fake" news by President Obama and the US Intelligence Community to bed and sleep well tonight.
I am sure Trump supporters are relieved to hear from the Russians themselves call our President a liar. Republicans have been in unison on referring to the entire eight years President Obama has been in the Oval Office as one Big Lie. With the Russians now seconding that motion I think we Dems who supported Hillary have gotten a wake-up call. We now see the light. How could we have been so skeptical of Vlad the Impaler?
Come January 20th, I would not be surprised to see Trump have as his special secret guest (Trump loves surprises) at the inauguration old Vladimir Putin himself. Now, wouldn't that be special?
DD
Manhattan
I am sure Trump supporters are relieved to hear from the Russians themselves call our President a liar. Republicans have been in unison on referring to the entire eight years President Obama has been in the Oval Office as one Big Lie. With the Russians now seconding that motion I think we Dems who supported Hillary have gotten a wake-up call. We now see the light. How could we have been so skeptical of Vlad the Impaler?
Come January 20th, I would not be surprised to see Trump have as his special secret guest (Trump loves surprises) at the inauguration old Vladimir Putin himself. Now, wouldn't that be special?
DD
Manhattan
3
When I was at University, research papers expounding such methodologies would barely pass. In life I have also learned, do pay little attention to those who consolidate loose random facts, into a rigid world opinion. Pattern recognition and pattern making, are 2 entirely separate things. Also at work, I dare not take to my superiors, any sort of report based on opinions, random evidence and non-systematic research.
I have a grasp of what asymmetric warfare means, but really I cannot grasp the confidence with which the American intelligence agencies are putting these notions forward with. Did this hydra, the imperceptible beast that is the American military, industrial, enterprise and technology complex, really get trolled like this ? Are these type of reports the best it can produce ? Please.. the intelligence agencies should be better than this.
I have a grasp of what asymmetric warfare means, but really I cannot grasp the confidence with which the American intelligence agencies are putting these notions forward with. Did this hydra, the imperceptible beast that is the American military, industrial, enterprise and technology complex, really get trolled like this ? Are these type of reports the best it can produce ? Please.. the intelligence agencies should be better than this.
10
Isn't a Russian denial a Roman confession?
There is just one thing that I can't figure out. Why is Trump so dedicated to Russia, and admiring of Putin? They have a GDP of just over 10% of ours - Lower than each of Germany, the UK and France individually. They are reeling over, and yet, they have developed one form of warfare that costs little and which they are holding over us. I would wish that Trump would develop our own technological capability too dwarf that of the Russia, and outspend enough in the effort, as Reagan did with the Soviet Union, causing its breakdown.
What does Trump have to gain personally in this giant shift in policy? The Statesmanship of Churchill, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Bush, Clinton and Obama has given us and the world relative peace and prosperity, supported by the Atlantic Alliance. Senators...Congressmen - do your jobs in this matter for the sake of our country. Get to the bottom to the motive behind this.
What does Trump have to gain personally in this giant shift in policy? The Statesmanship of Churchill, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Bush, Clinton and Obama has given us and the world relative peace and prosperity, supported by the Atlantic Alliance. Senators...Congressmen - do your jobs in this matter for the sake of our country. Get to the bottom to the motive behind this.
I listened to the Assange interview and between the Chinese, Iranians, and North Koreans, it could have bee any of them since Assange says not the Russians. And that Iranian $ deal Obama made will come back to bite us big time just wait and see.
1
What is evident is that US politicians are using "international espionage" to cover up their own short comings, which has given foreign adversaries an upper hand in the short-term.
As of now, Russian intelligence agencies perhaps achieved a goal even without actually making the US Presidential election a high priority target and/or without much effort, thanks to many Democrats and agencies crying foul.
Perhaps politicians can learn something from this: Better to keep silent unless there is clear and imminent danger of war.
As of now, Russian intelligence agencies perhaps achieved a goal even without actually making the US Presidential election a high priority target and/or without much effort, thanks to many Democrats and agencies crying foul.
Perhaps politicians can learn something from this: Better to keep silent unless there is clear and imminent danger of war.
2
The democrats have now elevated the Russians to such great power that they can determine election outcomes -- in the US of all places. The Russians couldn't buy that kind of propaganda.
Democrats should just shut up about Russia already. We know they screwed up. Making Russia into an all-powerful monster is not helping anyone.
Democrats should just shut up about Russia already. We know they screwed up. Making Russia into an all-powerful monster is not helping anyone.
1
Everyone should read 'Our Man in Havana by Graham Greene. There is a similarity with our events today, and what happened in Havana in Greenes' fictional story, and the escalation of our government workers today.
Thank you Russia for helping to expose the Clinton Crime Machine. Can we hire you to expose other Democrooks?
I have no doubt that Russian covert activities seek to be embedded in all parts of the US Govt, major corporations and powerful individuals, nothing new there. What has change in the last few years and whether the Russians have had a hand in or supported is mass scale of hacking emails, intercepting documents and stealing tons of banking data. This was dutifully reported by the press but the press never questioned the US administration as to why it occurred, what they were actually doing to combat this scourge and address it as National Security issue. The President was content to comment about it and recently spoke about reprisals against Russia which was probably the recent expulsion of Russian diplomats from the US. Is that all there is in terms of a counter-hacking episodes such as this Clinton email issue and DNC hack? For crying out loud, Mrs. Clinton was careless and the DNC also - blaming this on Trump serves no purpose as to what do we do going forward. All this occurred on President Obama's watch - address his failings in defending our National security.
Shocking news! David beats Goliath.
1. Given the meta-reach of US Intelligence and the long-known exploits of China, Russia, Israel and so many other clever independent actors including global E-business conglomerates, why is this now shocking news? Because just as in like 9/11 our Goliath of a government some how conveniently failed to protect its American public from such anticipated attacks.
2. Or did it? Perhaps stooge Trump was 'put in' to play by patriot Obama's Intelligence to enable a more effective, albeit illegal, defense countermeasure against the long-known eminent collapse of the American made oil-based global capital economy.
3. While this Russian Kabuki theatre has grabbed the electorate's attention concerning election rigging, absolutely nobody but Jill Stein has questioned the authenticity of the actual voting machinery. In fact, Obama has reiterated several times that the physical election systems are perfectly secure. Why? If his Intelligence was so easily pulled in by Putin's lame Kabuki dance, how could anyone then go swear the voting machinery is perfectly safe? They can't unless they know that this election element was rigged too.
4. So, David, what is our new Intelligence-run economic plan?
1. Given the meta-reach of US Intelligence and the long-known exploits of China, Russia, Israel and so many other clever independent actors including global E-business conglomerates, why is this now shocking news? Because just as in like 9/11 our Goliath of a government some how conveniently failed to protect its American public from such anticipated attacks.
2. Or did it? Perhaps stooge Trump was 'put in' to play by patriot Obama's Intelligence to enable a more effective, albeit illegal, defense countermeasure against the long-known eminent collapse of the American made oil-based global capital economy.
3. While this Russian Kabuki theatre has grabbed the electorate's attention concerning election rigging, absolutely nobody but Jill Stein has questioned the authenticity of the actual voting machinery. In fact, Obama has reiterated several times that the physical election systems are perfectly secure. Why? If his Intelligence was so easily pulled in by Putin's lame Kabuki dance, how could anyone then go swear the voting machinery is perfectly safe? They can't unless they know that this election element was rigged too.
4. So, David, what is our new Intelligence-run economic plan?
"The public report did not include evidence on the sources and methods used to collect the information about Mr. Putin and his associates that intelligence officials said was in a classified version.
Mark Galeotti, an expert on Russian intelligence agencies at the Institute of International Relations in Prague, said he was skeptical of the accusation that Mr. Putin had ordered the hacking. " This journalist seems determined to help Trump and his supporters remain skeptical of the findings of our intelligence community. I find that disturbing.
Mark Galeotti, an expert on Russian intelligence agencies at the Institute of International Relations in Prague, said he was skeptical of the accusation that Mr. Putin had ordered the hacking. " This journalist seems determined to help Trump and his supporters remain skeptical of the findings of our intelligence community. I find that disturbing.
1
Abraham Lincoln: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
But soon to take office, the president-elect continues to set off alarm bells, presumably on purpose...then taunts and ridicules us:
On Saturday, the defensive Trump claims "Having a good relationship with Russia is a good thing, not a bad thing. Only 'stupid' people, or fools, would think that it is bad!"
Only stupid people or fools.....
Despite NSA, The CIA, & FBI concurring in their published report that Putin ordered Russia's prolonged cyber-campaign against Hillary Clinton---and for Trump.
Stolen correspondence and documents supplied to Wikileaks....for Trump,
Trump's plans with Russia are in his interests. Not ours.
Now fully grandiose, he claims:
"both countries will, perhaps, work together to solve some of the many great and pressing problems and issues of the WORLD!"
But soon to take office, the president-elect continues to set off alarm bells, presumably on purpose...then taunts and ridicules us:
On Saturday, the defensive Trump claims "Having a good relationship with Russia is a good thing, not a bad thing. Only 'stupid' people, or fools, would think that it is bad!"
Only stupid people or fools.....
Despite NSA, The CIA, & FBI concurring in their published report that Putin ordered Russia's prolonged cyber-campaign against Hillary Clinton---and for Trump.
Stolen correspondence and documents supplied to Wikileaks....for Trump,
Trump's plans with Russia are in his interests. Not ours.
Now fully grandiose, he claims:
"both countries will, perhaps, work together to solve some of the many great and pressing problems and issues of the WORLD!"
1
Who among those with comments here are the " ... third-party intermediaries and paid social media users or ‘trolls?" I see almost too many to count? So Sad! So Unfair!
Russian propaganda and Republican propaganda are the same art.
The Russians did very well under Obama and Hillary. Every president since WW2 has tried to reduce Russian influence in the Middle East, and those efforts finally culminated under GWBush's administration. Russia was finally shut out of the Middle East, but the incompetence of Obama and Hillary let them back in. Obama is the best president Russia ever had
My question: when is Trump going to tear off that rubber mask to reveal the Kremlin operative who's been there all along? Wait - have Trump and Putin ever actually been seen in the same room together?
1
Of course the Russians are laughing. Who cares. Let's move on unless someone can show Trump knows more than he says about it. That is not likely as we are pretty sure he can't keep his mouth shut about anything he knows or doesn't know. Trump is an idiot for his stance on this interference. We know that. But there are more important things now. It appears he mostly going to do the bidding of the ultra-right Republicans, a 180 of most his campaign promises. And some of the others are dangerous or ridiculous. There is a lot to talk about there. This babble about the Russian interference is not to be forgotten, but it is a dead end without new relevant information.
1
Thanks for the head's up!
"Trump is Putins lover and they are secretly planning on taking over the world!"
I guess it's no secret any more! Thanks to you, maybe we can stop them from taking over the world, eh? We'd better work together, though, and get started right away!
"Trump is Putins lover and they are secretly planning on taking over the world!"
I guess it's no secret any more! Thanks to you, maybe we can stop them from taking over the world, eh? We'd better work together, though, and get started right away!
1
The Kremlin is trying to push the narrative that American elections are not free nor fair. The Russians sound just like Democrats!
As an American (assuming you are one), shouldn't it concern you more that our election process is not free or fair, owing to a foreign government's intervention?
Think about it.
Think about it.
For Russia, this is the fun part.
No, it is certainly not the case that there is "no evidence". And the real story is not only that the Russians hacked--the yet unexplained and uninvestigated story is that the Trump campaign colluded with the Russians to amplify the leaks and make them seem like they were something shocking THis got mushed together with the whole supposed "Clinton email" issue and created a false sense of criminality, daily. WHAT WERE THE CONTACTS BETWEEN THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN AND THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT? Manafort, Carter Page, Conway, Flynn. This was a KGB-style orchestrated campaign technique--very obvious. It is not just about hacking. The problem is that the Trump supporters being interviewed still get all their info from Fox "News".
Obama turned Russia into an enemy. Always the adversary, but by haughty ridicule and insult the genius, Obama, changed all that. That they would then try to disrupt and discredit our election process it's nothing more than paid back. Became an enemy, you know.
That they favored Trump doesn't mean anything. I favor France not electing a self serving crinimal. Better for us, better chance to deal with.
Rich that the Clinton whiners are claiming foul on the basis of the voters learning the truth about their candidate. Oh yes, the Russians were ones that allowed the truth to come out. So, re-do!
And it was her basement server that did her in. She shot herself and her supporters want to blame the gun manufacturer. No Clinton supporters seemed to get real exercised about her reckless conduct as Secretary of State by allowing all our enemies to know all her email communication.
Do these delusional ones understand that even today we don't know how she conducted herself while in office because only her lawyers and the Russians and probably the Chinese, have a full record of her emails. America's property but she left her lawyer look at them first before we got to see them.
The smell of mendacity rich in the air.
That they favored Trump doesn't mean anything. I favor France not electing a self serving crinimal. Better for us, better chance to deal with.
Rich that the Clinton whiners are claiming foul on the basis of the voters learning the truth about their candidate. Oh yes, the Russians were ones that allowed the truth to come out. So, re-do!
And it was her basement server that did her in. She shot herself and her supporters want to blame the gun manufacturer. No Clinton supporters seemed to get real exercised about her reckless conduct as Secretary of State by allowing all our enemies to know all her email communication.
Do these delusional ones understand that even today we don't know how she conducted herself while in office because only her lawyers and the Russians and probably the Chinese, have a full record of her emails. America's property but she left her lawyer look at them first before we got to see them.
The smell of mendacity rich in the air.
3
The CIA WMD report was a Cheney orchestrated heavily redacted and rewritten affair in which then CIA chief George Tenet, his toady, forced his operatives to toe the Cheney line. I don't think this bears comparison in any way shape or form with what happened to the DNC. Anything Trump says is either vile, self aggrandizing, false, vindictive, bullying, cruel, belittling, a repetition of a falsehood stated earlier and for which he never ever apologized (birther scandal among others) and absolutely unworthy of credence or place in respectful rational discourse. Good luck America, Good luck World!
2
The #DNI report on alleged #Russia #hacking of the election. Judge for yourself the conclusions of this declassified version, more than half of which relates specifically to #RT. While I certainly do not agree with #Trump's views on the matter, based on what is in this report, I do find myself wondering just what is fact and what is fiction (as many of you do, I imagine).
Regarding the assertions made against #RT, I can only speak from my own experience, which is that a) I am not under a contract with RT (contrary to the assertion made at the very end of the report about Western commentators being under contract) and b) that RT never once 'coached' me or suggested I should have a certain point of view in any of the dozens of interviews I have done with them. In fact, I was nearly always simply told what the subject was, and not even asked what my view of it was in advance. Many high caliber and high quality commentators from around the world -- of all political stripes -- regularly appear on RT, which has one of the largest viewerships in the world.
While RT certainly has an easily identifiable bias in its reporting of the news, so does #Fox, #MSNBC, #BBC, #CNN and every other news outlet. So what? RT's program #CrossTalk, for example, deliberately solicits commentators with completely disparate viewpoints. When was the last time MSNBC did that? It is always up to the viewer to choose which platforms to watch and what to believe or not believe...
Regarding the assertions made against #RT, I can only speak from my own experience, which is that a) I am not under a contract with RT (contrary to the assertion made at the very end of the report about Western commentators being under contract) and b) that RT never once 'coached' me or suggested I should have a certain point of view in any of the dozens of interviews I have done with them. In fact, I was nearly always simply told what the subject was, and not even asked what my view of it was in advance. Many high caliber and high quality commentators from around the world -- of all political stripes -- regularly appear on RT, which has one of the largest viewerships in the world.
While RT certainly has an easily identifiable bias in its reporting of the news, so does #Fox, #MSNBC, #BBC, #CNN and every other news outlet. So what? RT's program #CrossTalk, for example, deliberately solicits commentators with completely disparate viewpoints. When was the last time MSNBC did that? It is always up to the viewer to choose which platforms to watch and what to believe or not believe...
3
How will this story be reported in the Ruppert Murdoch propaganda empire? or on Breitbart? or Drudge? What's Kelly Ann got to to say? In support of Russian Propaganda and planning to build a bridge to Russia, can Trump be trusted with nuclear codes? The Russians are using the very same strategy to deflect the evidence as Trump. We really must have a public disclosure of Trump's tax returns. Maybe Russia will release them?
Russians ridicule the accusarion that they hacked our election? How dumb do they think we are? Well, we have just given them reason(through electing Trum), beyond their wildest dreams. to think pretty dumb, indeed. I don't think their leaders are brilliant geniuses but they have defintely hired some excellent hackers and young people who will have fun trolling for the money. I have to add that the National Inquirer has not helped. It used to get the scoop but our blue-state grocery store(not naming names for fear of reprisal) doesn't carry it.
So,when you say we are out of touch, yes we are hobbled w/o the fake news?!
So,when you say we are out of touch, yes we are hobbled w/o the fake news?!
Just look to the Olympic doping scandal to see Russia's record on truthtelling. Like rats in a corner
It is ridiculous to read about Russian impact on the election results and see how powerful the mass media is in their lie and disinformation.
Every loser wants to blame anyone but himself in his lose and find a scapegoat.
The Demcs lost everywhere - in presidency, Senate, Congress. WOW!!!
Moreover there was no evidence of hacking even in the recent report, only quotations from Internet, social blocks, RT and etc. The same story with the MH17, Litvinenko, Russian defector to UK - no evidence but a lot of fuss and sensation.
Pity that Americans trust it!
Every loser wants to blame anyone but himself in his lose and find a scapegoat.
The Demcs lost everywhere - in presidency, Senate, Congress. WOW!!!
Moreover there was no evidence of hacking even in the recent report, only quotations from Internet, social blocks, RT and etc. The same story with the MH17, Litvinenko, Russian defector to UK - no evidence but a lot of fuss and sensation.
Pity that Americans trust it!
2
Obama was a pushover for 8 years. He was good at withdrawing, but little else. So Putin took the Crimea, invaded Ukraine, took control in Syria. He's done what he likes. Clinton would probably have continued the US decline as a world power, allowing Russia to extend its sphere of influence even further into the middle east. Why would they prefer a wild card like Trump who doesn't know day to day what he'll do in office? He must be a traitor, say many in the commentariat. Loathing someone doesn't lead to good analysis.
1
Great article. Much better than I expected from the headline. Sure no question Russia plays these games as does the US.
1
Russia's hacking efforts have succeeded. They have destabilized their prime adversary by insuring the victory of a bully by illegitimate means. No rational American in good conscience can maintain that Trump won fairly, but because we have no instant replay, we are stuck with him until due process of one sort or another (a fair election or impeachment) removes him. His picks for top jobs in his administration make it clear he is surrounding himself not so much with people of like-minded ideas, but with like-minded temperaments. America can and has survived bouts of conservative politics. It remains to be seen if we survive a round of authoritarian bullying.
1
The hacking can not be denied. However, think that the intent of Russian meddling would not be to defeat Clinton but weaken our democractic institutions. The outcome of election can not be undone now, and it is necessary to insure that any such nefarious intent is not successful in sowing seeds of discord and distrust.
Think it is not fair to question the patriotic credentials of Mr. Trump. Better to let his strivings, even if perceived as populist, to make America great succeed; for in that success is our success. The only ground for scrutiny can be ethical conduct.
Think it is not fair to question the patriotic credentials of Mr. Trump. Better to let his strivings, even if perceived as populist, to make America great succeed; for in that success is our success. The only ground for scrutiny can be ethical conduct.
2
"..not be to defeat Clinton but weaken our democractic institutions. "
Exactly! This wasn't about a single stupid election. It's about setting up the dominos. Russia is an expert at the long game. They'll keep the divide ever widening until we start another civil war. And all the social media addicts will help the effort by denigrating the new President on every little thing. The man won't be able to wipe his nose without someone taking issue with his technique. Trump isn't a politician, why would you expect him to talk like one or negotiate like one? Start seeing his technique as business, not politics and it will be much easier to understand his administration.
Time to move on America and work with what we've got. Stay entrenched in this obsessive rehashing about why HRC lost and we stagnant in a festering chasm of anger.
Exactly! This wasn't about a single stupid election. It's about setting up the dominos. Russia is an expert at the long game. They'll keep the divide ever widening until we start another civil war. And all the social media addicts will help the effort by denigrating the new President on every little thing. The man won't be able to wipe his nose without someone taking issue with his technique. Trump isn't a politician, why would you expect him to talk like one or negotiate like one? Start seeing his technique as business, not politics and it will be much easier to understand his administration.
Time to move on America and work with what we've got. Stay entrenched in this obsessive rehashing about why HRC lost and we stagnant in a festering chasm of anger.
The Russians don't need to sow uncertainty and mistrust in America's electoral system and entire society. The progressive Left is proving it is quite capable of doing this itself, thank you very much.
1
The propaganda assault of the "Cozy Bear' FSB fronts were not a surprise to anyone during the election. Trump was regularly referred to as the "Siberian Candidate" months before the election was held. In all logic this Russian interference with out elections should have backfired. Unfortunately there were many more "useful idiots" in the electorate who didn't care about this tampering that made the Russian scheme a success.
1
Since the election ended a string of escalating and evolving conspiracy theories has gushed from the 'not my president' crowd that included Russian hacking of voting machines, fake news, hacked emails and leaks etc.
With no evidence to support any of this it appears that the conspiracy theories are now rubber stamped by the outgoing administration in order to damage the incoming administration.
Hillary Clinton was hurt more by the FBI than Donald Trump was by the NYT and other biased media outlets.
Fear sells.
From what I can see in friends and acquaintances regarding the alleged conspiracy to undermine the election, the government and national sovereignty is that
the unrelenting campaign to undermine the president elect has traction with people who are neither logical or lucid to begin with.
Once the idea is their head they are convinced and nothing can shake that.
Someone should report on the use of industrial psychology to influencing people's opinions.
But then again we don't want to undermine the upper hand that gets used a lot but is never spoken about.
With no evidence to support any of this it appears that the conspiracy theories are now rubber stamped by the outgoing administration in order to damage the incoming administration.
Hillary Clinton was hurt more by the FBI than Donald Trump was by the NYT and other biased media outlets.
Fear sells.
From what I can see in friends and acquaintances regarding the alleged conspiracy to undermine the election, the government and national sovereignty is that
the unrelenting campaign to undermine the president elect has traction with people who are neither logical or lucid to begin with.
Once the idea is their head they are convinced and nothing can shake that.
Someone should report on the use of industrial psychology to influencing people's opinions.
But then again we don't want to undermine the upper hand that gets used a lot but is never spoken about.
3
Yeah. You knew they were gonna hammer THAT one...
Commander Twit is out of his league, rolled by Putin before he even got to the Big House. Bigly sad.
1
My goodness -- don't do THAT!
"First, read the actual document. No evidence is presented at all. There are lots of assessments, which the paper tells you ahead of time, is opinion."
Maybe these "intelligence officials" have valid "assessments;" maybe not. But let's not forget that that's ALL they are -- "assessments."
Maybe they've also got evidence; maybe not. We didn't know before this report was released, and we still don't know. All we have are "assessments." Wonderful, but I was hoping for some evidence, not just some clown's "assessment."
"First, read the actual document. No evidence is presented at all. There are lots of assessments, which the paper tells you ahead of time, is opinion."
Maybe these "intelligence officials" have valid "assessments;" maybe not. But let's not forget that that's ALL they are -- "assessments."
Maybe they've also got evidence; maybe not. We didn't know before this report was released, and we still don't know. All we have are "assessments." Wonderful, but I was hoping for some evidence, not just some clown's "assessment."
3
Would we even be talking about this now if Hillary had won? I doubt it.
2
She did...by 3 million votes.
What scares me is that Trump's supporters will look at this Russian propaganda and say "See! More proof that our spies and Obama and Hillary are liars...Lock them up!"
CIA must have known that there are no WMD in Iraq. Iraq was a two bit third world country and want us believe that CIA is that incompetent to be so wrong. It is a clear political fudging of facts. It is haunting us now. It is a grave mistake to use government institutions for political causes. They are there to protect the country from foreign espionage activities. Putin undoubtedly attempted to interfere in domestic politics but clearly failed. No one can interfere in our political process because it is an open process unlike Russian political system.
1
When Russian trolls say "prove it" that's Kremlin-speak for 'guilty as charged.'
Thanks for confirming what we already know.
Thanks for confirming what we already know.
2
You can bet Putin did not want to see Hillary in the White House, why? Because Putin and lot's of others see the Clintons as loose cannons, directly responsible for a lot of the war in the world today with bad decisions dating back to Bills first term and the bombing of Yugoslovia. The Clintons know not the evil they dooeth, no one in their right mind wanted to see more of the same but trying to make Putin responsible for Clintons loss is absurd.
What surprise me is not the Russian's vigourus denial of involvement but using the parallel used by Trump that this is screw up on the scale of the WMD revelations on leading to the Iraq war.Why aren't Americans outraged that their President elect is feeding excuses ... and what has the WMD conclusion have to with cybersnooping?
conducting covert influence campaigns focused on U.S. presidential elections that have used intelligence officers and agents and press placements to disparage candidates perceived as hostile to the Kremlin,”
Remove the Kremlin reference and it sounds the same as what superpacs, media consultants and big campaign donors do all the time and is perfectly legal.
Remove the Kremlin reference and it sounds the same as what superpacs, media consultants and big campaign donors do all the time and is perfectly legal.
Countries, ally and foe alike spy one another. In cyberspace, when you have security bleach, you plug the hole. Set new guide lines. When you have virus you update your operation system. Without consulting the computer experts or punishing Hilary or other for security bleach, Obama sends the whole country's computer laymen into a wide goose chase. Election is over. Stop kid fight between Obama and Trump. Let's concentrate on the more important issue like how to fix the health care system....
So now all decent and loyal Americans will reject the Russian's spurious denials and those of their willing tool Assange, right?
Well, maybe except for the Head Yahoo Groper about to be inaugurated.
Then again, who ever thought of Trump as decent or loyal to anyone but himself?
Well, maybe except for the Head Yahoo Groper about to be inaugurated.
Then again, who ever thought of Trump as decent or loyal to anyone but himself?
The Russians will deny their involvement in meddling in the elections as they are liars just like Donald Trump. Trump admires Putin
for a good reason. This is now very obvious as the hacking scandals are unfolded.
It is very possible he know that the Russians were meddling in the election.
Trump also share common values with the alt-right who embrace Putin. Right wing extremist in Europe are all rallying behind Putin. Look at the strength they are gaining in
for a good reason. This is now very obvious as the hacking scandals are unfolded.
It is very possible he know that the Russians were meddling in the election.
Trump also share common values with the alt-right who embrace Putin. Right wing extremist in Europe are all rallying behind Putin. Look at the strength they are gaining in
1
Interesting to see words thrown around - and disingenuous associations made...
She made it personal...
They - in turn - made it very personal...
If it was really about liking Trump - where's the appendix on this report, describing how they bumped off the sixteen other GOP candidates...
And - if we're really going to cast a broad net for meddlers...
http://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2016-11-03/3-reasons-...
"...French President François Hollande said that Trump "makes you want to retch". Italian Prime Minister Matteo Renzi criticized what he called Trump's "policy of fear," and made clear his "very strong" support for Hillary Clinton...
"...German foreign secretary Frank-Walter Steinmeier called Trump's portrait of the United States as being beset by internal and external enemies "grotesque," and warned that a Trump presidency would lead to "many uncertainties for the trans-Atlantic relationship...
...so - if all of you post-election warhawks so want to jump in the cage with the Russian Bear, can we safely assume Trump would be within his rights to retaliate against this gaggle of Eurofoxes...
Oh - what's that you say...Trump deserved this Eurothrashing - because he's so bad...
Well - that makes as much sense as anything you've ever said...
She made it personal...
They - in turn - made it very personal...
If it was really about liking Trump - where's the appendix on this report, describing how they bumped off the sixteen other GOP candidates...
And - if we're really going to cast a broad net for meddlers...
http://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2016-11-03/3-reasons-...
"...French President François Hollande said that Trump "makes you want to retch". Italian Prime Minister Matteo Renzi criticized what he called Trump's "policy of fear," and made clear his "very strong" support for Hillary Clinton...
"...German foreign secretary Frank-Walter Steinmeier called Trump's portrait of the United States as being beset by internal and external enemies "grotesque," and warned that a Trump presidency would lead to "many uncertainties for the trans-Atlantic relationship...
...so - if all of you post-election warhawks so want to jump in the cage with the Russian Bear, can we safely assume Trump would be within his rights to retaliate against this gaggle of Eurofoxes...
Oh - what's that you say...Trump deserved this Eurothrashing - because he's so bad...
Well - that makes as much sense as anything you've ever said...
Jon wrote:
==
The only reason why Russians and Trump are denying it is because they had a consorted effort to do it TOGETHER. Trump is a puppet of the Russians, his appointees are proof to it. God help us all.
==
Over 100 "Recommend" the above. So let's see:
Conservatives: Obama is a Muslim and was not born in the US. A Manchurian plot!
Liberals: Trump is an agent of Putin and conspired with him to steal the election. A Manchurian plot!
Do you people ever step out of your self-righteous ideological boxes and take a hard look at yourselves and your own gullibility?
Clapper openly lies to Congress but you believe him this time? CIA lies about WMD and you believe them this time? How many times do you have to recreate Frankenstein's monster before it kills you?
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The only reason why Russians and Trump are denying it is because they had a consorted effort to do it TOGETHER. Trump is a puppet of the Russians, his appointees are proof to it. God help us all.
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Over 100 "Recommend" the above. So let's see:
Conservatives: Obama is a Muslim and was not born in the US. A Manchurian plot!
Liberals: Trump is an agent of Putin and conspired with him to steal the election. A Manchurian plot!
Do you people ever step out of your self-righteous ideological boxes and take a hard look at yourselves and your own gullibility?
Clapper openly lies to Congress but you believe him this time? CIA lies about WMD and you believe them this time? How many times do you have to recreate Frankenstein's monster before it kills you?
2
It seems the Russians & Trump are reading from the same script. They both are comparing the CIA to the Iraqi weapons of mass destruction.Talk about getting in bed with the Russians.
We have nothing in common with Russia, wee are a Democracy with free speech, & press, Russia is governed by a despotic tyrant that thinks nothing of doing away with his opposition.If Trump is serious of having good relations with Russia, it can only mean that Trump & Putin have a lot in common, & this could be our worst nightmare.
We have nothing in common with Russia, wee are a Democracy with free speech, & press, Russia is governed by a despotic tyrant that thinks nothing of doing away with his opposition.If Trump is serious of having good relations with Russia, it can only mean that Trump & Putin have a lot in common, & this could be our worst nightmare.
1
Still waiting for any of the Democrats to explain why they are trying to lie us into war with Russia. Are they Chinese agents trying to goad America and Russia into war to destroy each other and leave China as the biggest kid on the block? Are they ISIS agents trying to cripple Russia to take the heat off their ISIS buddies?
1
Big deal. The CIA has meddled in plenty of other countries' political processes, including Iran, Guatemala, Argentina and more.
What's the difference between Russia leaking documents and someone attending Romneys speech leaking the 47% video? Nine
The important thing is that all the information released was true.
What's the difference between Russia leaking documents and someone attending Romneys speech leaking the 47% video? Nine
The important thing is that all the information released was true.
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Another thing to remember: The info released was largely petty intra-party bickering, which, while unseemly, was not criminal, it just had the effect of chipping away at Clinton and bolstering Trump. So conservatives find themselves siding with Russia?!
So when Russia hacks into defense and intelligence systems and releases all of our military secrets, defense plans, and identities of SEALS and agents, will you still say " the important thing is that all the information is true"?
It's pretty unnerving that Trump and the Kremlin have the same talking points...
“Former spy reports Kremlin cultivated Trump as an asset for 5 years”
In June, the former Western intelligence officer—who spent almost two decades on Russian intelligence matters and who now works with a US firm that gathers information on Russia for corporate clients—was assigned the task of researching Trump's dealings in Russia and elsewhere, according to the former spy and his associates in this American firm... when he dug into Trump, he notes, he came across troubling information indicating connections between Trump and the Russian government. According to his sources, he says, “there was an established exchange of information between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin of mutual benefit.”…
“Russian regime has been cultivating, supporting and assisting Trump for a least 5 years. Aim, endorsed by Putin, has been to encourage splits and divisions in western alliance.” It maintained that Trump "and his inner circle have accepted a regular flow of intelligence from the Kremlin, including on his Democratic and other political rivals."It claimed that Russian intelligence had “compromised” Trump during his visits to Moscow and could “blackmail him.” It also reported that Russian intelligence had compiled a dossier on Hillary Clinton based on “bugged conversations she had on various visits to Russia and intercepted phone calls.”
In June, the former Western intelligence officer—who spent almost two decades on Russian intelligence matters and who now works with a US firm that gathers information on Russia for corporate clients—was assigned the task of researching Trump's dealings in Russia and elsewhere, according to the former spy and his associates in this American firm... when he dug into Trump, he notes, he came across troubling information indicating connections between Trump and the Russian government. According to his sources, he says, “there was an established exchange of information between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin of mutual benefit.”…
“Russian regime has been cultivating, supporting and assisting Trump for a least 5 years. Aim, endorsed by Putin, has been to encourage splits and divisions in western alliance.” It maintained that Trump "and his inner circle have accepted a regular flow of intelligence from the Kremlin, including on his Democratic and other political rivals."It claimed that Russian intelligence had “compromised” Trump during his visits to Moscow and could “blackmail him.” It also reported that Russian intelligence had compiled a dossier on Hillary Clinton based on “bugged conversations she had on various visits to Russia and intercepted phone calls.”
What a coincidence: Russia belittles the intelligence report; Trump belittles the intelligence report. I think Trump's hidden slogan was "Make Russia Great Again." He and his ilk on well on their way to doing that.Along the way they will pillage the United States of America.
We need our elected officials to pay attention and protect the public they were elected to represent. Instead the Republicans are salivating at the possibility of finally removing entitlements to those most in need and increasing the wealth of the already wealthy. They are too giddy with power to see the reality in front of their very noses.
1
Please keep this on the front page. This cannot vanish down the memory hole like all Trump's other problems. We must focus on this one. This can taint T's presidency from the start.
Trump and Russia ridiculed the American report.
Smell something?
Best find out what it is before the 20th.
Smell something?
Best find out what it is before the 20th.
Here is a fact that the editors and most commenters still don't seem to grasp: Trump's voters don't care. They don't care how he got elected and they don't much care what he does to enrich himself. They care that The people they don't like lost, especially that awful woman, and the community organiser is leaving the White House. They DO NOT CARE about anything else. There is no truth to them other than what they wish to believe in the moment.
I am Russian and I hate Putin, but I find this hysteria about alleged Russian influence totally ludicrous. First, it is not false infirmation that you claim have tilted the election, it's true infirmation that did. If a key Clinton operative is arrogant enough to put in writing what in effect is a conspiracy to dismantle Sanders' campaign and stupid enough to choose "password" as his password, the democrats have only themselves to blame. It doesn't matter who exposed this arrogance and stupidity. Second, the hypocrisy here is stunning, Obama has admitted to recording phone conversations of other heads of states and the US has been involved for decades in toppling democratically elected governments. What is alleged here is child's play compared to what has been obviously going on on both sides. I used to be an Obama (and reluctant) Hilary supporter, but now I lost all respect. Losers...
3
Why are the russians the only suspect whom commited the hacking.the isrealis have great computer skills,thier prime minister dislikes obama ,he certainly prefers donald,to bepresident,Isreal always does whatever is necessary for their national interest,remember the attack on uss liberty,pollard spy case.aipac political lobbying,
1
Why are we so shocked, we've been instituting "regime change" for decades, sometimes through and invasion.
Releasing some DNC memos that they preferred Hillary to Bernie is real softball.
Releasing some DNC memos that they preferred Hillary to Bernie is real softball.
1
So a foreign government hacks into America's computer system and disseminates propaganda, lies, and false stories in an attempt to insure the election of a man they believe they can take advantage of, and anyone who expresses concern, opposition, or fear is nothing but a "sore loser"?
What does that make those idiots who have griped, whined, and lied about President Obama every single second for the past eight years?
What does that make those idiots who have griped, whined, and lied about President Obama every single second for the past eight years?
1
The Russians had the same reaction to those who accused them of systematic cheating at the Olympic games. The Trump-Pence-Putin ticket won by cheating.
3
Well they would wouldn't they? And the US intelligence agencies aren't going to oblige the Russians by showing their hand. Apparently some Republican "Patriots" would like us to do this. Perhaps they'd like us reveal the names of any Humint assets we have in Russia also. They sound that daft. Russia has never got over their defeat by us in the cold war (Putin has said so several times). These people are not our friends, they're not really interested in peaceful co-existence and cooperation unless it furthers their agenda. Has everyone forgotten the Walkers, Aldrich Ames, Robert Hanssen who inflicted huge damage on US intelligence including the deaths of numerous assets and the latter two were spying for Russia long after the collapse of the Soviet Union. Now apparently according to the CIA Trump is to have as his national security advisor someone who has been on the payroll of the Russian propaganda TV channel and a SoS who is a particular favorite of the Russians. If you worked in US intelligence would you be comfortable confiding the country's deepest secrets to Trump and people like this?
6
So, we are going to listen to the Russians opinion and ask some Trump supporters in order to get a read about whether or not this is real? Of course, the report is not going to include the best methods and evidence. Why would our intelligence agencies tell the Russians and all random hackers out there its methods? Why would it tell Russia where to look for the weak points in its system.
The Russians will, no matter the evidence, do denial. They are doing the sneering and scoffing because that will support and echo Trump and his supporters. Sadly, for Trump fans, many of whom have long admired Putin as a 'strong man who stands up for his country' while denigrating Mr. Obama as "weak" and someone who "hates America," Russia's tone and words will fit nicely (even confirm) their belief that this is just, as Trump says, sour grapes on the part of liberals who lost badly.
The devastating part is that Trump, with Russia's help, has led nearly half of the population to see our entire intelligence community as both wrong and laughable. Boy, must the vodka be flowing in the Kremlin!
The Russians will, no matter the evidence, do denial. They are doing the sneering and scoffing because that will support and echo Trump and his supporters. Sadly, for Trump fans, many of whom have long admired Putin as a 'strong man who stands up for his country' while denigrating Mr. Obama as "weak" and someone who "hates America," Russia's tone and words will fit nicely (even confirm) their belief that this is just, as Trump says, sour grapes on the part of liberals who lost badly.
The devastating part is that Trump, with Russia's help, has led nearly half of the population to see our entire intelligence community as both wrong and laughable. Boy, must the vodka be flowing in the Kremlin!
17
"to see our entire intelligence community as both wrong and laughable"
Trump is a nightmare but I disagree. With the Snowden debacle and Clapper lying to Congress, the NSA and the rest of the USA security groups already accomplished what you suggested -- in their own magnificent repeated ineptitude in the last 3 years. It isnt even contestable.
Seriously, you are talking about Clapper and suggesting he has integrity that has only NOW been tarnished? Just no.
Trump is a nightmare but I disagree. With the Snowden debacle and Clapper lying to Congress, the NSA and the rest of the USA security groups already accomplished what you suggested -- in their own magnificent repeated ineptitude in the last 3 years. It isnt even contestable.
Seriously, you are talking about Clapper and suggesting he has integrity that has only NOW been tarnished? Just no.
"...Why would our intelligence agencies tell the Russians and all random hackers out there its methods? Why would it tell Russia where to look for the weak points in its system." - this is the excuse of the lack of evidence, Anne. Isn`t it?
I'm waiting for a report on James Comey and the FBI playing dirty politics to influence this election.
Guess that won't be forthcoming any time soon.
Guess that won't be forthcoming any time soon.
There is a difference between the classified report that only selected members of the political establishment receive and the declassified report that the public gets. Trump appeared subdued when he left the meeting last Friday with senior security officials, because he got an insight into the classified report. This "Trumpgate" scandal is very complex. Only Trump, Russia and the intelligence agencies know exactly what's going on.
Let's put aside the history of the US and Russian meddling in each other's domestic affairs. Let's focus on Trump's behaviour. The hacked DNC emails were initially published by WikiLeaks on July 22, 2016. It was no coincidence that Trump urged Russia to find Hillary Clinton's lost emails on July 27. It was a public endorsement of Russia's role in helping influence the outcome of the election. It's no coincidence that he took Russophiles - Paul Manafort, Michael Flynn, Carter Page etc. - on board. That his diehard supporters show indifference to and disbelief in Russian meddling, is because they have been brainwashed.
Let's put aside the history of the US and Russian meddling in each other's domestic affairs. Let's focus on Trump's behaviour. The hacked DNC emails were initially published by WikiLeaks on July 22, 2016. It was no coincidence that Trump urged Russia to find Hillary Clinton's lost emails on July 27. It was a public endorsement of Russia's role in helping influence the outcome of the election. It's no coincidence that he took Russophiles - Paul Manafort, Michael Flynn, Carter Page etc. - on board. That his diehard supporters show indifference to and disbelief in Russian meddling, is because they have been brainwashed.
9
"Trump appeared subdued when he left the meeting last Friday with senior security officials, because he got an insight into the classified report."
So -- You read Trumps mind and came up with that conclusion? Please reconsider -- you are projecting what you want to see. Facts would be good but we the public arent getting any.
So -- You read Trumps mind and came up with that conclusion? Please reconsider -- you are projecting what you want to see. Facts would be good but we the public arent getting any.
I agree with you and let's not forget Comey's and Giuliani's role in delivering ongoing FBI assistance in defeating Mrs. Clinton.
Let's not forget that the Clinton email's were leaked immediately following the scandalous video/audio of trump admissions to his sexual predations upon vulnerable women.
Let's not forget that there is over whelming evidence of trump's sexual predation and sociopathic behavior preserved on the network tapes that have yet to be released.
trump received unwarranted protection from the FBI, the intelligence community, from the media and networks, all of which converged to enable his candidacy, a candidacy that should have been scuttled early on during the campaign.
Our nation is at risk with trump in office and the republican majority in congress. The sooner we Americans understand that fact the sooner we will do something about it.
If social media continue to allow the alt right and russian trolls to dominate conversations we will have more fake news, lies about Democrats, and a take over of our government by enemy forces.
When the alt right and russian trolls post comments on social media we must be ready to confront them and out them for who they are. We must not stand by and allow them to continue to dominate social media. There are more of us than there are of them.
Let's not forget that the Clinton email's were leaked immediately following the scandalous video/audio of trump admissions to his sexual predations upon vulnerable women.
Let's not forget that there is over whelming evidence of trump's sexual predation and sociopathic behavior preserved on the network tapes that have yet to be released.
trump received unwarranted protection from the FBI, the intelligence community, from the media and networks, all of which converged to enable his candidacy, a candidacy that should have been scuttled early on during the campaign.
Our nation is at risk with trump in office and the republican majority in congress. The sooner we Americans understand that fact the sooner we will do something about it.
If social media continue to allow the alt right and russian trolls to dominate conversations we will have more fake news, lies about Democrats, and a take over of our government by enemy forces.
When the alt right and russian trolls post comments on social media we must be ready to confront them and out them for who they are. We must not stand by and allow them to continue to dominate social media. There are more of us than there are of them.
1
Exactly! For some odd reason, many of the "intelligent" people commenting here are missing that point. As one example: U.S. officials evidently have "audio" recordings of Russian officials congratulating themselves for assisting in Clinton's defeat. RELEASING that audio -- which would be "hard evidence" -- could for sure put a U.S. source in danger, as then the who, what, when and where of the "audio incident(s)" could tip the Russians to the source of "the bug." It's not rocket science to understand this? Identifying a fake news site might expose the cash behind the site, which might jeopardize an FBI probe: True or False? The "Need-To-KNOW" people have SEEN the "hard evidence." One of them is Mr. Trump ...
1
Thank you NYT for finally saying it loudly and clearly right up front after weeks of refusing to do so: no hard evidence has been released to support accusations of Russian hacking of the DNC emails. No thinking American would again trust our intelligence apparatus' accusations without hard evidence after their flawed data and/or lies that drew us illegally into Iraq and Afghanistan. This is obviously an important issue, but let us not forget that the US routinely interferes in the affairs of other countries by hacking their emails and phones, outright telling them who or what to vote for (Brexit) and illegal regime change (Iraq, Libya, Ukraine). Not one US official has said anything other than there has been no voter fraud or vote tampering, so at worst we have a hacker that does exactly what our presidents do everyday to other countries. Beating that to a pulp is sheer hypocrisy and is intellectually dishonest.
32
SW
San Francisco
So you want the US intelligence agencies to show their hand to Russians. What else would you like us to do. Give them the names of any Humint sources in Russia? How about access all the key codes at the NSA? Are you all there is a not unreasonable question.
San Francisco
So you want the US intelligence agencies to show their hand to Russians. What else would you like us to do. Give them the names of any Humint sources in Russia? How about access all the key codes at the NSA? Are you all there is a not unreasonable question.
1
Hey, SW. Wrong. I am a thinking American and I trust them more than I trust Donny. Are you so naive to think that Republican Senators and the entire intelligence apparatus drew this conclusion without evidence?! Um, let me guess: You voted for Trump. You are in fact a Russian troll. Why not use your name, SW?
1
"Flawed data/or lies" drew into Afghanistan? Seriously? Bin Laden and the Taliban weren't in Afghanistan? If not, where were they? In Hawaii with Obama's fake birth certificate? Meanwhile, the "hard evidence" you speak of as lacking is lacking in the PUBLIC REPORT that's been released to the PUBLIC. You and your Russian allies aren't going to be seeing that. And if you don't understand why the names, methods and "hard evidence" (ex audio of celebrations that might expose U.S. sources), you need to watch more spy movies? That "hard evidence" has been seen by those with security clearances. ... Like your president-elect.
1
No central person involved in this "news topic" seems to have the hard poof (either way) or the willingness to draw a hard line in the sand -- so lots of finger pointing that amounts to really nothing more than new daily newsprint. I am tuning out, though I realize the implications are potentially serious: there's no end-point to this news item as it stands.
21
Still no evidence. At the end of the day all the hacks did was show Hillary Clinton as she is - if that's a problem that's problem with the candidate the party chose. Indeed Hillary didn't lose because Trump's angry white men voted, she lost because many Democrats didn't vote. In retrospect, the Clinton's control of the party and their attempt at a coronation was bound to not end well even with all the improper manipulation by the DNC
48
"she lost because many Democrats didn't vote."
That's a contortion. HC won the popular vote and no one is arguing otherwise. The truth is that HC flubbed her chance by appearing too corporate. And the utterly false news polls did not help the situation.
"Clinton's control of the party" What? I dont think anyone thinks that the Clintons "control" the Dems -- where are you getting this stuff? Fox news?
That's a contortion. HC won the popular vote and no one is arguing otherwise. The truth is that HC flubbed her chance by appearing too corporate. And the utterly false news polls did not help the situation.
"Clinton's control of the party" What? I dont think anyone thinks that the Clintons "control" the Dems -- where are you getting this stuff? Fox news?
13
Clinton doesn't "appear" too corporate, she is the definition of corporate.
16
to SW -- very true. Though there is plenty of irony to be found that Trump is a life-long corporate wall streeter -- appeared as such to all -- and became President. Still not sure how he managed that.
I find the anti-Russia hysteria being whipped up quite remarkable. People's critical faculties are paralyzed with disorientation and fear. Like after 9/11, when trumped up WMD tall tales set the world on a path towards ISIS and God-knows what next. Have no Americans heard of the NED --- the National Endowment for Democracy? Ask the Venezuelans, for example, about U.S. meddling in elections. Espionage and counter-espionage go on all, the time. It is an endless game. Like you and your personal data, which everyone and their uncle helps themselves to every minute of every day. What is never at issue in these stories about Russia! are the nasty little tricks the DNC did to keep Bernie out of the White House and the Clinton campaign's lousy strategy, especially in the closing days of the election. What you have are the neoliberals/necons/cold warrior establishment types trying to keep their hand son the wheel and lunatic Republicans poised to drive the USA -- is not the entire world -- off a cliff. I just happened to be reading chapter one of Robert O. Paxton's definitive work. "The Anatomy of Fascism," where he describes the confused despondency that followed WWI, an atmosphere for which left and right were inadequate and that occurred because liberal and conservative had failed. Like now. Uncertainly, jockeying for power. It is truly remarkable how shameless propaganda actually can be. All those governments toppled by the CIA denied with a straight face.
85
Fair enough, Mr. Appledorf. As an American I am ashamed of our actions in places like Guatemala, Nicaragua, and Iran (to name a few). Two wrongs don't make a right, however and the CIA's crocodile tears also make me want to say spare me. But now it's happened to us. I don't like Russian oligarchs and I don't like their big boats and the focus of economies and capital that they represent. This makes me angry, as an American and it should make you angry too. No less so than in other cases. Two wrongs don't make a right and the stakes are extremely high because right or wrong, the USA is the most powerful country with the most powerful military. So, your cynicism is not helpful. We are justified to be angry about this in spite of your told-you-so attitude. I'm your neighbor, buddy.
2
Will that high horse of yours be able to help the Latvians, Estonians, or Lithuanians when Trump fails to enforce a NATO defense against Putin's aggression?
2
Russia -- well, the USSR -- lost 27 million lives defeating Hitler. Twenty-seven million. Eleven million of those were civilians. Russia itself was devastated. The USA by contrast lost a total of 250,000 combat personnel, a terrible loss to be sure.
Russia should have been treated like the ally it was when the war was over. At least the loans FDR promised Stalin should not have been reneged. But Truman, a party hack who was VP when FDR died, knew nothing about anything, and James Byrne, a rabid anti-communist because he was a rabid capitalist, filled his head with anti-communism.
Stalin was a giant question mark, it is true, a brutal dictator, one of the most lethal mass murderers in history. But FDR, if not actually able to win his trust, was able to win his cooperation. Truman dropped him down a well full of mutilated bodies in the (at the time) Ukraine. it is also true that neoliberal crusaders meddled in post-Gorbachev Russia to the point of architecting its economy, but my point us the Russia never shoukd have been an eneny if the USA and only is because American imperial ideology requires it.
The USA has installed, armed, and supported many dictators as bad as Putin, who is elected and admired despite his crimes by many Russians -- like many important American politicians. Russian "aggression" is response to American military encirclement. Stop tightening a noose that makes Ratheon and others money and start trying to make peace instead of making money via war.
Russia should have been treated like the ally it was when the war was over. At least the loans FDR promised Stalin should not have been reneged. But Truman, a party hack who was VP when FDR died, knew nothing about anything, and James Byrne, a rabid anti-communist because he was a rabid capitalist, filled his head with anti-communism.
Stalin was a giant question mark, it is true, a brutal dictator, one of the most lethal mass murderers in history. But FDR, if not actually able to win his trust, was able to win his cooperation. Truman dropped him down a well full of mutilated bodies in the (at the time) Ukraine. it is also true that neoliberal crusaders meddled in post-Gorbachev Russia to the point of architecting its economy, but my point us the Russia never shoukd have been an eneny if the USA and only is because American imperial ideology requires it.
The USA has installed, armed, and supported many dictators as bad as Putin, who is elected and admired despite his crimes by many Russians -- like many important American politicians. Russian "aggression" is response to American military encirclement. Stop tightening a noose that makes Ratheon and others money and start trying to make peace instead of making money via war.
3
What’s mind-boggling is how quickly the NYT is changing its line on Russia. For decades, the NYT has downplayed the destructive international role of Russia:
- Duranty’s coverage of the Holodomor, Stalin’s genocide of the Ukrainian people;
- Hiss vs. Chambers in the late 40s;
- Russian proxy invasions of Angola and Ethiopia in the 70s;
- Russian invasion of Afghanistan;
- Russian involvement in the “peace/antiwar/antinuclear” organizations of the 70s, 80s, and 90s;
- Russian support of Sandinistas and FMLN in Central America;
- etc.
In each of these areas, the NYT turned a deaf ear to those warning of Russia’s intentions, labeling them as alarmist, right-wing, cold-warriors.
Now, overnight, the NYT has become a fierce opponent of Putin and Russia! What a shameful volte-face. Only sheer partisan interest can account for it. Amazing how one’s viewpoint changes when it’s your ox being gored.
- Duranty’s coverage of the Holodomor, Stalin’s genocide of the Ukrainian people;
- Hiss vs. Chambers in the late 40s;
- Russian proxy invasions of Angola and Ethiopia in the 70s;
- Russian invasion of Afghanistan;
- Russian involvement in the “peace/antiwar/antinuclear” organizations of the 70s, 80s, and 90s;
- Russian support of Sandinistas and FMLN in Central America;
- etc.
In each of these areas, the NYT turned a deaf ear to those warning of Russia’s intentions, labeling them as alarmist, right-wing, cold-warriors.
Now, overnight, the NYT has become a fierce opponent of Putin and Russia! What a shameful volte-face. Only sheer partisan interest can account for it. Amazing how one’s viewpoint changes when it’s your ox being gored.
65
McCarthyism was disgusting in the 1950's when pushed by the GOP and McCarthy adn it is disgusting n ow when pushed by losers of the DNC and mass media.
Your list os exaggerated and utterly one sided. As though it was wrong to rightly protest the Utterly evil Vietnam war (my best freind is a decorated Vietnam War hating vet). Our destruction of democracies was wrong then (Chile, Nicaragua, El Salvador) and now (Egypt, Honduras, Ukraine). Then there are our illegal wars we wage in secret and our assassinations.
And all those evil Russian examples you give are mostly repsonses to OUR support for murderous torture dictatorships like Pinochet, Death Suads in El Salvador, murdering priest and fueling Wars in Angola that lasted 25 years killing 10s of millions that eneded the year we stopped supporting te evil Jonas Savimbi.
The people you support consider Nelson Mandela a terrorist, supported South Africa and its apartheid and now support Israel and it's apartheid. You probably consider BLM to be terrorists and Pinochet a 'friend of democracy' to use Margaret Thatchers memorable phrase (lie).
You are right about the hypocrisy though but only that. You support our evil politics that has killed 10+ to the one killed by Russia since WW II.
Your list os exaggerated and utterly one sided. As though it was wrong to rightly protest the Utterly evil Vietnam war (my best freind is a decorated Vietnam War hating vet). Our destruction of democracies was wrong then (Chile, Nicaragua, El Salvador) and now (Egypt, Honduras, Ukraine). Then there are our illegal wars we wage in secret and our assassinations.
And all those evil Russian examples you give are mostly repsonses to OUR support for murderous torture dictatorships like Pinochet, Death Suads in El Salvador, murdering priest and fueling Wars in Angola that lasted 25 years killing 10s of millions that eneded the year we stopped supporting te evil Jonas Savimbi.
The people you support consider Nelson Mandela a terrorist, supported South Africa and its apartheid and now support Israel and it's apartheid. You probably consider BLM to be terrorists and Pinochet a 'friend of democracy' to use Margaret Thatchers memorable phrase (lie).
You are right about the hypocrisy though but only that. You support our evil politics that has killed 10+ to the one killed by Russia since WW II.
Well, Mr Rogerson, you are showing your age, which is not a bad thing.
However, do you honestly ask of a news paper to have a consistent stand on a foreign power over 80 years? And you are getting 45 recommends for this at this moment? That is a shocker to me. Unless people just recommend your post for the various historical facts in it.
However, do you honestly ask of a news paper to have a consistent stand on a foreign power over 80 years? And you are getting 45 recommends for this at this moment? That is a shocker to me. Unless people just recommend your post for the various historical facts in it.
Charles, look, it doesn't matter what country did the meddling. The point is, the election was tainted by foreign interference.
Many of us suspect that *Trump is guilty of colluding with the foreign power. Also, Trump has financial ties with Russia (Trump Jr. told WSJ so) and appears to want to do deals with them, hence Rex Tillerman.
The election is dirty! No wonder so many of us are up in arms about it.
Many of us suspect that *Trump is guilty of colluding with the foreign power. Also, Trump has financial ties with Russia (Trump Jr. told WSJ so) and appears to want to do deals with them, hence Rex Tillerman.
The election is dirty! No wonder so many of us are up in arms about it.
"The report provides no new evidence to support assertions that Moscow meddled covertly through hacking...the absence of any concrete evidence in the report of meddling by the Kremlin was met with a storm of mockery on Saturday by Russian politicians and commentators…”
And rightly so!
I watch aghast as the Left has a new found love affair with a politicized CIA, and has cooperated with the mainstream media’s absurd expression of dogmatic certainty that Putin’s GRU elected Trump by hacking.
Where is a little something called hard evidence? Liberal America is descending into such a pit of partisanship that they are allowing themselves to be stampeded into a confirmation bias that doesn’t require documentation to be accepted as absolutely true.
Memo: the anti-Russian hysteria is not convincing to the rest of us; especially folks like this writer, living in the Northwest in what may soon be the nuclear missile range of North Korea — a real prospect of annihilation which doesn’t receive one-tenth the media attention that “The Russian Menace!” does.
If you care what Conservatives think: among us the credibility of the Establishment media fell to zero the day after Trump was elected, and is now at less-than-zero after observing how “Putin’s hacking” is trumpeted with the same mindless certainty with which "Saddam’s weapons of mass destruction" once were.
And rightly so!
I watch aghast as the Left has a new found love affair with a politicized CIA, and has cooperated with the mainstream media’s absurd expression of dogmatic certainty that Putin’s GRU elected Trump by hacking.
Where is a little something called hard evidence? Liberal America is descending into such a pit of partisanship that they are allowing themselves to be stampeded into a confirmation bias that doesn’t require documentation to be accepted as absolutely true.
Memo: the anti-Russian hysteria is not convincing to the rest of us; especially folks like this writer, living in the Northwest in what may soon be the nuclear missile range of North Korea — a real prospect of annihilation which doesn’t receive one-tenth the media attention that “The Russian Menace!” does.
If you care what Conservatives think: among us the credibility of the Establishment media fell to zero the day after Trump was elected, and is now at less-than-zero after observing how “Putin’s hacking” is trumpeted with the same mindless certainty with which "Saddam’s weapons of mass destruction" once were.
60
How do you explain the Republican Senators agreeing with a "politicized" CIA?! Your argument is absurd and your broad-brush statements about what "Conservatives" (with a capital C) think is revealing. All hail the great and powerful Hoffman (pay no attention to the troll behind the curtain).
Mr. Hoffman,
I couldn't agree with you more. The MOST frightening thing about this election year is how low the bar is for journalists. Whatever happened to "hard-hitting journalism" that made sure to base everything they report on objective facts that have been scrupulously researched?
I really wish the NYTimes returned to the news source it once was. I don't believe for one second that the editors and writers of the NYTimes are this insipid. I think there's something more insidious happening here. It's been reported that there is now a concentration of media ownership, and according to the Business Insider, as of 2012, Six corporations controlled 90% of the media in America, a reported consolidation of 50 in the 1980's.
This consolidation of media in America in the hands of only a few has me very concerned, because the reporting has become so biased that I am wondering what vested interest the editors and reporters are protecting.
I don't believe for one second that journalists have become this bad; I think it's about wealth of the media conglomerates who employ the writers and editors. It's that simple. It's about money. Once respected news sources like the NYTimes have sold out.
Perhaps the Government really does have to step in and break up these huge media conglomerates. The real power is in the hands of the media, and we can't have a few individuals in power of what has turned into a propaganda machine.
Break up the media conglomerates!
I couldn't agree with you more. The MOST frightening thing about this election year is how low the bar is for journalists. Whatever happened to "hard-hitting journalism" that made sure to base everything they report on objective facts that have been scrupulously researched?
I really wish the NYTimes returned to the news source it once was. I don't believe for one second that the editors and writers of the NYTimes are this insipid. I think there's something more insidious happening here. It's been reported that there is now a concentration of media ownership, and according to the Business Insider, as of 2012, Six corporations controlled 90% of the media in America, a reported consolidation of 50 in the 1980's.
This consolidation of media in America in the hands of only a few has me very concerned, because the reporting has become so biased that I am wondering what vested interest the editors and reporters are protecting.
I don't believe for one second that journalists have become this bad; I think it's about wealth of the media conglomerates who employ the writers and editors. It's that simple. It's about money. Once respected news sources like the NYTimes have sold out.
Perhaps the Government really does have to step in and break up these huge media conglomerates. The real power is in the hands of the media, and we can't have a few individuals in power of what has turned into a propaganda machine.
Break up the media conglomerates!
2
That's it!
We are accustomed to the fact that we do not believe what we are told and do not want, so that we can think for themselves. And all that can be useful for the beckoning us to "secret information."
Anyone who wants to live well, and he does not need disputes between the presidents, which he chooses. He wants that they have agreed on its behalf. But the media does not want peace, they want only media scandals and conspiracies. It is very sad.
We are accustomed to the fact that we do not believe what we are told and do not want, so that we can think for themselves. And all that can be useful for the beckoning us to "secret information."
Anyone who wants to live well, and he does not need disputes between the presidents, which he chooses. He wants that they have agreed on its behalf. But the media does not want peace, they want only media scandals and conspiracies. It is very sad.
1
The Guardian reports British Secret Service gave US intelligence tip off in 2015 about Russian hacking. So the question is who knew what when during the election and what was done about it?
Makes me wonder if Trump's vehement denial to Russian hacking is because he was fed this information during the campaign and is now covering his tracks.
No smoke without fire.
Makes me wonder if Trump's vehement denial to Russian hacking is because he was fed this information during the campaign and is now covering his tracks.
No smoke without fire.
44
If this is so, where were our intelligence and Pres. Obama....asleep at the switch?
Exactly - can you say PAUL MANAFORT?
I am still waiting for Trump's Tax Returns - let NYT and the rest of the media focus on that. To paraphrase Trump - please hack the pre-sumptive President's tax returns please, in order to get real clarity about him. Focus, focus!!!
69
The most worrying interpretation of Mr Trump's tax no-show isn't impropriety, but insolvency. As others have noted, he doesn't behave like any other billionaire.
1
No president was ever required by law to disclose tax returns. It was done by some to show how 'honorable' they were.
Trump is also not required by law to disclose his tax returns. Let us just leave it at that.
Go and have a nap.
Trump is also not required by law to disclose his tax returns. Let us just leave it at that.
Go and have a nap.
2
Stop making sense, GIngi, or the Democrats will drum you out of the party!
Keep in mind the public only sees the unclassified report. Trump saw the classified version, and that shows detailed information of hacking attempts that spanned months.
The Russians use a form of hacking known as Advanced Persistent Threat (APT). The way you deal with APTs is to monitor your network traffic and server activity for moths and years. There is typically no "break in" event. The hack is to open a covert exfiltration channel that is not noticed; because it initially does nothing, and then only much later drip, drip, drips the target information out without drawing attention (hidden inside "normal" traffic).
APTs are the hardest attacks to detect, but they are the easiest to massively document, once you are on to them.
The Russians use a form of hacking known as Advanced Persistent Threat (APT). The way you deal with APTs is to monitor your network traffic and server activity for moths and years. There is typically no "break in" event. The hack is to open a covert exfiltration channel that is not noticed; because it initially does nothing, and then only much later drip, drip, drips the target information out without drawing attention (hidden inside "normal" traffic).
APTs are the hardest attacks to detect, but they are the easiest to massively document, once you are on to them.
24
How do you know what the classifieds version says unlless you personally have seen it and are leaking it here?
6
Surely, with the very future of democracy and sovereignty at stake, the Intel report needs to take the risk to expose more of the methods to support their assertion. Lets lay the skeptics to waste IF this dire Russian invasion is the truth. Full disclosure is imperative.
''Over the past weeks, rumors circulated that senior intelligence officials had pushed for far more of the agencies’ evidence pointing to Russia to be declassified and revealed to the public, according to Susan Hennessey, a former NSA attorney. But that cards-on-the-table approach, which likely would have sacrificed intelligence sources and methods in favor of more public transparency, didn’t make it to the final report. “This isn’t a remotely risk-embracing document,” says Hennessey. “There’s alway a tension between those who think it’s worth bringing forward sources and methods and those that don’t. It’s clear that those with very conservative views about protecting sources and methods prevailed.”
https://www.wired.com/2017/01/feds-damning-report-russian-election-hack-...
''Over the past weeks, rumors circulated that senior intelligence officials had pushed for far more of the agencies’ evidence pointing to Russia to be declassified and revealed to the public, according to Susan Hennessey, a former NSA attorney. But that cards-on-the-table approach, which likely would have sacrificed intelligence sources and methods in favor of more public transparency, didn’t make it to the final report. “This isn’t a remotely risk-embracing document,” says Hennessey. “There’s alway a tension between those who think it’s worth bringing forward sources and methods and those that don’t. It’s clear that those with very conservative views about protecting sources and methods prevailed.”
https://www.wired.com/2017/01/feds-damning-report-russian-election-hack-...
Why are you in denial?
1
All along I had assumed that Trump's pre-election posturing about the possibility of a "rigged election" was simply a way of protecting his ego in the event of a loss and threatening the unruly rage of his supporters in such an event. The more disquieting interpretation emerges when one realizes that the Kremlin motivation for the hacking/distribution in the first place was revenge for Secretary Clinton's well publicized assertions in 2011 that the Russian election was "rigged" Putin's purpose was to show the world that American elections were no less "rigged" than his own and Donald Trump was his American mouthpiece.
38
Don't forget that the trolls may be visiting here as well. Some of the news I follow on other newspapers' websites have been recently invaded by trolls' comments. They are very pervasive, and their comments appear to be almost without any substantive content, just rude and insulting and way right wing.
I'll let you know what "feedback" I get!
I'll let you know what "feedback" I get!
55
I'm not sure that I understand this comment but I see that many readers have recommended it. I looked through quite a few of the comments posted here and I don't see any that are rude and insulting (I might have missed them). Most express reasonable points of view on both sides. I've always been a democrat and I certainly don't like Trump. Yes, Hillary did win the popular vote, but one factor in her defeat was that many people did not hear the voices some discontented Americans, particularly in the middle of America. Trump took advantage of this. It's why so many people were surprised at the election result. I think that Trump is a liar and a conman. However, that doesn't mean that the intelligence community is telling the truth. James Clapper has a proven record of lying to Congress (for the most patriotic reasons, of course) and it is true that we destroyed Iraq because of invisible WMDs. I think the Russian hacking may be an issue where people should consider abandoning 'right wing' and 'left wing' labels. I read the complete text of the Russian Hacking report posted by the Times. It is clear that the report contains nothing resembling evidence. Maybe the evidence is in the confidential report, but I think a reasonable person might be skeptical. And I find the accusations made against RT in the report to be a bit embarrassing.
2
The Washington Post is unfortunately one newspaper whose comments section has been invaded by trolls.
1
@Jane:
You are wrong. There are no trolls on NYT comments sections. Each comment must pass the paper's censors or filters.
The comment is published ONLY if NYT wants it published.
By the way, I too read the unfiltered, uncensored comments in other newspapers. Most insults, rude comments and name calling come from the left.
You are wrong. There are no trolls on NYT comments sections. Each comment must pass the paper's censors or filters.
The comment is published ONLY if NYT wants it published.
By the way, I too read the unfiltered, uncensored comments in other newspapers. Most insults, rude comments and name calling come from the left.
2
Those who criticized Clinton for her emails and Benghazi, never believed government investigations/conclusions. Again, they chose not to believe our intel on Russian meddling in election. In stead, they'd rather believe in rumors.
The declassified report has no evidence. All evidence is in classified report. Please stop saying that you don't see any evidence.
Foreign powers have self interests to influence US politics. Just because UA has done the same to other countries, so Americans should happily accept? Whose interests we are trying to achieve?
At this moment we should all leave Clinton out of discussion. It is about how confident we can be in the incoming administration to protect our country's interests, or his own?
The declassified report has no evidence. All evidence is in classified report. Please stop saying that you don't see any evidence.
Foreign powers have self interests to influence US politics. Just because UA has done the same to other countries, so Americans should happily accept? Whose interests we are trying to achieve?
At this moment we should all leave Clinton out of discussion. It is about how confident we can be in the incoming administration to protect our country's interests, or his own?
54
"All evidence is in classified report."
Is that true though? Please point to some news item that says that there is evidence but it cannot be revealed -- thanks
Is that true though? Please point to some news item that says that there is evidence but it cannot be revealed -- thanks
10
I haven't seen any evidence, except evidence that the CIA lies to the American people all the time. It's obvious that Obama wants to divert attention away from the Clinton Crime Machine and the vile Podesta/Brazile/media behavior So he has his people in CIA/ODNI build up a Russian boogeyman.
1
“The public report did not include evidence on the sources and methods used to collect the information about Mr. Putin and his associates that intelligence officials said was in a classified version.”
Congressional Hearings.
Pronto.
Pronto.
42
Congressional hearings are already ongoing. Where have you been?
1
Congressional disbandment would be more of a progresive approach, let's try that.
And yet you yourself posted decrying the Benghazi hearings.
1
The Russian Government are PIGS. Our new "Billionaire Boys Club are PIGS. Unfortunately we American Citizens have to endure this sty until we can crushingly vote it out of office. And we will.
26
Now how in the world did those clever Russians get the poor innocent Dems to write all those incriminating e-mails against themselves, for the Russians to hack into and expose because the Marxist-Socialist Media wouldn't? Smart them Russians , Stupid them Democrats! ( maybe someday when this grand deflection is over perhaps there will be a journalist with an ounce of integrity left who will delve into the crimes exposed by those e-mails............LOL! Who am I trying to kid!).
30
What crimes? All the emails showed was that the Democratic Party establishment preferred the Democratic establishment candidate and thought her competitor was a Johnny-come-lately opportunist. What crimes? Nobody even broke the Democratic Party's internal rules, much less state and federal laws.
1
Delusional conspiracy theory.
1
To answer your question, I'd say you are trying to kid yourself. You know, like Trump does. "incriminating e-mails"? In what way were the e-mails criminal and thus incriminating? No, the fact is you lie, down deep you know this, so you are trying to kid yourself.
1
Trump and Putin doth protest too much.
Nobody cares about the Russians response to this. But we do need Trump's tax returns ASAP, and we need to make sure all cabinet nominees are thoroughly vetted before their confirmation processes.
Nobody cares about the Russians response to this. But we do need Trump's tax returns ASAP, and we need to make sure all cabinet nominees are thoroughly vetted before their confirmation processes.
55
Get used to the fact that Trump is not obligated to reveal his tax returns. That is between him and the IRA.
So keep your nose out of Trump's business; you have no right to demand anything.
So keep your nose out of Trump's business; you have no right to demand anything.
The Russians are smart to use Bush's lie of "weapons of mass distruction" to undermine our trust in the federal government. We never prosecuted Bush, Chaney or the intelligence community for the lethal damage they have done to our counrty. We still don't know what they were thinking or what they expected to get out of it. Logic, simple logic, would have lead us to Saudi Arabia, but Chaney and Halliberton lead us in some other direction. Millions protested the build up to that fraudulent war. I was in NY. I saw the crowds that ran from 14th street to 68th. We understood the lies and who was saying them, in government and the press. We understood just how much money was to be made. We screamed to stop it, but it was a done deal. We are now paying the price.
70
@David,
Here's a frighteningly insightful interview from a CIA analyst who was silenced by Cheney's team for their own designs.
It's not clear who recently restarted the false meme blaming the CIA for the WMD lies but it certainly seems to be popular with Russians, and it has been often repeated by Trump supporters. That indicates Trump supporters are getting too much of their disinformation from Russia.
"In the run-up to the [Iraq] war, there was an Office of Strategic Plans [ed. Correction , Office Special Plans} in the Department of Defense that was built essentially to counter the intelligence and the analysis coming out of the CIA about the invasion, the case for the invasion.”
Nada Bakos, a former CIA analyst
Nada Bakos: How Zarqawi Went From “Thug” To ISIS Founder
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/nada-bakos-how-zarqawi-went-fr...
Here's a frighteningly insightful interview from a CIA analyst who was silenced by Cheney's team for their own designs.
It's not clear who recently restarted the false meme blaming the CIA for the WMD lies but it certainly seems to be popular with Russians, and it has been often repeated by Trump supporters. That indicates Trump supporters are getting too much of their disinformation from Russia.
"In the run-up to the [Iraq] war, there was an Office of Strategic Plans [ed. Correction , Office Special Plans} in the Department of Defense that was built essentially to counter the intelligence and the analysis coming out of the CIA about the invasion, the case for the invasion.”
Nada Bakos, a former CIA analyst
Nada Bakos: How Zarqawi Went From “Thug” To ISIS Founder
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/nada-bakos-how-zarqawi-went-fr...
And it appears our Intelligence Agencies were asleep at the switch during the run-up and did not prevent 9/11.
So the U.S. spends decades upending politics in sovereign nations, installing puppet regimes and generally wreaking havoc wherever we choose. Yet our political parties and press orchestrate a collective panic attack amid trumped up evidence that they've had all along, but don't wheel it out until a political outsider wins an election against all expectations.
What geniuses we are.
What geniuses we are.
59
Well didnt Trump invite the hacking and his team brag about it? Hardly sounds like "trumped up evidence" if it was looked into and all investigation teams agreed that it happened. The GOP likes congressional hearings- why not just get to the bottom of it?
You nailed it, Billy.
1
Thanks Doc.
Russia ridiculing the US for hacking is like a bank robber blaming the bank for letting him get away with the money. They are criminals, they are thugs, they are murderers. We don't care what they think.
37
Yes they are but so is the United States.
Is Obama still hacking Angela Merkel's cell phone?
I heard there was some mention that the United Kingdom, as for example in GCHQ, played some sort of role in alerting or helping U.S. intelligence agencies with the election meddling issue.
What I think we need to know, since I suspect I know the real answer, is whether the Russians played any role in the Brexit vote last year.
What I think we need to know, since I suspect I know the real answer, is whether the Russians played any role in the Brexit vote last year.
22
Well, did anyone expect Putin and his gang of cronies to all suddenly say, "oh gosh, I guess you caught us"?
The only person who would believe Russian denials is Trump -- who also believes Julian Assange, when Assange said the DNC leaks didn't come from the Russians.
I hope our response to this outrage is stronger between now and the time Trumpy takes over. Kicking out a few Russian diplomats obviously didn't accomplish much.
The only person who would believe Russian denials is Trump -- who also believes Julian Assange, when Assange said the DNC leaks didn't come from the Russians.
I hope our response to this outrage is stronger between now and the time Trumpy takes over. Kicking out a few Russian diplomats obviously didn't accomplish much.
27
The 'only' person? Try everyone who isn't barking mad over the fact that Hillary was rejected at the polls.
Since the fall of the Berlin Wall , US foreign policy is culpable for world wide loss of life, destruction and destabilizing (Yugoslavia, Iraq, Syria, Lybia); the mounting of the Arab Spring, which has contributed to a severe rise of Islamic extremism, NATO eastward expansion... As for believing Assange - hm, let me see, should I believe the corrupt, shameless DNC officials - who threw a viable candidate under the bus and did not manage to keep it a secret...
Russia’s response is not surprising, belying their guilt. Otherwise they would be indignant as another poster said. Friends would never do such a thing.
The world appears to have entered a new war, waged in cyber space with fake news, posted lies, well-timed exposures of private communication and possibly other types of manipulation, aimed at altering public opinion and elections to meet a goal of a more favorable political atmosphere for the perpetrator. Given the nature of this war, the charge of treason to any citizen who helped such endeavors would not be out of line.
That is the next question that demands an answer. What involvement, if any, came from Trump or his campaign?
See 18 U.S. Code § 2381 – Treason: Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason…
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2381
The world appears to have entered a new war, waged in cyber space with fake news, posted lies, well-timed exposures of private communication and possibly other types of manipulation, aimed at altering public opinion and elections to meet a goal of a more favorable political atmosphere for the perpetrator. Given the nature of this war, the charge of treason to any citizen who helped such endeavors would not be out of line.
That is the next question that demands an answer. What involvement, if any, came from Trump or his campaign?
See 18 U.S. Code § 2381 – Treason: Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason…
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2381
15
Obama hacked Merkel's phone, and lectured our BFF the U.K. re Brexit. Apparently, that's exactly what friends do.
3
So, we are to be swayed that Russian politicians and commentators are ridiculing our intelligence agencies' findings? The propaganda continues. Sorry, Russia. I believe the men and women who took an oath to the United States and who put their lives on the line to protect our freedoms, the same freedoms Putin would like to see stripped away for his own benefit.
12
If only he would share his tax returns, as all have done before him. Life would be so much simpler.
9
Or maybe not.
If Russia did meddle (which I'm not buying), it was fully justified in trying to tip the election.
It could not afford another relentless enemy like Obama in the White House. Neither could Europe, which was being driven to large-scale war. And, frankly, neither could humanity.
There's a lot to do. The USA and Russia working together can achieve miracles in the economic and security spheres. Not just in Europe, but in the Middle East and elsewhere. Let's get on with it!
It could not afford another relentless enemy like Obama in the White House. Neither could Europe, which was being driven to large-scale war. And, frankly, neither could humanity.
There's a lot to do. The USA and Russia working together can achieve miracles in the economic and security spheres. Not just in Europe, but in the Middle East and elsewhere. Let's get on with it!
13
There is a term for your view..Collaborator. Well Quisling if you prefer.
2
Republicans don't care. Their hatred of Hillary is shared by Putin so they are happy that he aided and abetted the election of Trump. End of story...
14
Just like trump, you can't believe anything the Russians say.
Our CIA has determined what they did, we don't need to listen to their denials.
Trump will be impeached yet, over this or some other egregious, illegal action. It's just a matter of time.
Our concern should be: what is the right thing to do now. Which is get rid of trump and economically sanction the Russian's to the degree we can. And be a decent country in this blighted world.
Our CIA has determined what they did, we don't need to listen to their denials.
Trump will be impeached yet, over this or some other egregious, illegal action. It's just a matter of time.
Our concern should be: what is the right thing to do now. Which is get rid of trump and economically sanction the Russian's to the degree we can. And be a decent country in this blighted world.
8
Punish Russia. Knock that smirk right off Putin's face. Continue the petrol war against him, sanction him, shoot his planes down and humiliate him worse than his nation's lousy economy already does.
6
Yes, because war with Russia will help in so many ways. Thank goodness your bellicose fantasy doesn't look likely.
Does it also mean that the US Intelligence apparatus fail to protect the Americans interest? What did they do to combat these misinformation campaigns?
10
Trump has some additional information from Russian intelligence that he is going to share with us shortly.
11
The Russians can coordinate their TV laugh-a-thon all they want. Vladimir's fanboys/girls are the only ones concerned about being mocked. True Blue Americans are slowly digesting all of this while noting the president-elect's quick dismissal of any negative statements about his highly favored new comrades. As a rational progressive, I can agree that the overwhelming reason Hillary loss was because of Hillary, and still believe wholeheartedly that the Russian government orchestrated a disinformation campaign to influence the election. As far as this report goes, I just view it as the laying of foundation for eventually building a structure to expose Russian interference throughout North American and European countries. To those justifying this interference because America has done the same thing for decades, I say, any country that doesn't want their shenanigans exposed should be good enough not to get caught so quickly. The time-frame makes it seem like a "Hail Mary" pass by the Russians that resulted in a miracle touchdown.
10
"A disinformation campaign"? John Podesta's email account was hacked by someone who correctly guessed that his password was "password", and factually correct DNC emails were released. How is that a disinformation campaign instead of the release of cold, hard, ugly evidence of Hillary's true views on issues?
6
There is way too much coziness between Trump and Putin. Putin reads Mr. Trump better than the supporters who voted him into office. All one has to do is stroke the president-elect's ego, and he becomes like Play-Doh, moldable and pliable to another's agenda. Trump calls himself a smart man, but, to conjecture, he is being outsmarted by a thug who wants to expand the Russian "empire" by whatever means. And it is threatening to us Americans, and Eastern Europe, that the future POTUS is abetting a KGB thug's effort to undermine our democratic principles as well as NATO's mission to protect and defend. I have reservations as to whether Trump's advisors and appointees will be able to stand up to him. That leaves our Congress. Let us hope that they can put their personal and political self-serving needs aside to come to our nation's defense against a seemingly unstable Commander-in-Chief.
15
Russians are using the same strategy as trump by dismissive ridicule.
23
And Democrats are essentially saying "just trust CIA" There are no checks at all on CIA power. None. Yet we spend trillions of dollars -- in media and educational time and resources-- teaching kids and adults "Checks and balances" as our only linguistic common denominator and societal model of power.
It's outdated. Democrats and Media credence for CIA allegations clearly shows we need a more realistic model of power for discussing politics in 2017.
It's outdated. Democrats and Media credence for CIA allegations clearly shows we need a more realistic model of power for discussing politics in 2017.
It plays well with some. I'm glad I'm not one of them, though.
The similarity between the Russian strategy and Trump's is no accident. The strategy and, more importantly the content originated with the Russians: for whatever reason he is their puppet.
There can be no doubt that an orchestrated attempt was by the Russians to influence the outcome of the US election. A contrary analysis would require one to bury one's head in the sand. The Russian protestations change nothing. If anything, the "storm of mockery" eerily corroborates the storm of mockery and derision that enveloped the Clinton campaign for over a year.
The only question, at this point, is the degree to which Trump and/or the Trump team encouraged, enabled, and colluded in the Russian attack on American democracy. I would suggest that it is a national security emergency that
Gen. Flynn will be our National Security Advisor in 2 weeks time when, less than a year ago, he was on the payroll of Russia Today, the media branch of Putin's propaganda machine identified by the declassified report. Flynn even had dinner with Putin at a RT event in December 2015. It completely beggars belief that an employee or agent of the chief enemy of our democracy is about to become our National Security Advisor. He should be immediately relieved of that position. The alternative simply boggles the mind--that Russia has succeeded in placing somebody under its financial and ideological influence at the head of our national security apparatus.
It follows from Flynn's unsuitability that whoever it was that thought he should have the job also should be discarded. Was it Bannon? Manafort? Trump himself? We must know.
The only question, at this point, is the degree to which Trump and/or the Trump team encouraged, enabled, and colluded in the Russian attack on American democracy. I would suggest that it is a national security emergency that
Gen. Flynn will be our National Security Advisor in 2 weeks time when, less than a year ago, he was on the payroll of Russia Today, the media branch of Putin's propaganda machine identified by the declassified report. Flynn even had dinner with Putin at a RT event in December 2015. It completely beggars belief that an employee or agent of the chief enemy of our democracy is about to become our National Security Advisor. He should be immediately relieved of that position. The alternative simply boggles the mind--that Russia has succeeded in placing somebody under its financial and ideological influence at the head of our national security apparatus.
It follows from Flynn's unsuitability that whoever it was that thought he should have the job also should be discarded. Was it Bannon? Manafort? Trump himself? We must know.
34
Did FBI Director Comey know of Russian involvement before he splashed Clinton email hysteria on the US election the week before the US election? If so this rises to a criminal case. Comey as FBI Director acting in his duties as Director did this. This is no longer about Putin or Russia.
Did a FBI Director tilt a US election with information he knew associated a foreign government with manipulation of a US election? This is not about Putin or Russia. What did the FBI Director know and when did he know it? America needs to know.
Did a FBI Director tilt a US election with information he knew associated a foreign government with manipulation of a US election? This is not about Putin or Russia. What did the FBI Director know and when did he know it? America needs to know.
52
Entirely agree with PH. As bad as Russia's actions were, what could be
expected from a power hostile to the US, who had played their outrageous
"who me?" games in the Crimea and the Olympics?
And yeah, yeah, sanctions and secret computer counterattacks, but realistically what can the US do about Putin?
But Comey! This is the head of our National Police. Not a
hostile nation. His predecessors have severely abused their powers. There
is no precedent or excuse for what he did. He gave credence and authority
to the material Russian intelligence was manipulating. And for takeaway
for headlines only readers covered it all with the well-known stench of A. Weiner's sexual manias. What can be done about Comey?
Trump and Obama could agree to jointly sign the executive order to fire Comey.
expected from a power hostile to the US, who had played their outrageous
"who me?" games in the Crimea and the Olympics?
And yeah, yeah, sanctions and secret computer counterattacks, but realistically what can the US do about Putin?
But Comey! This is the head of our National Police. Not a
hostile nation. His predecessors have severely abused their powers. There
is no precedent or excuse for what he did. He gave credence and authority
to the material Russian intelligence was manipulating. And for takeaway
for headlines only readers covered it all with the well-known stench of A. Weiner's sexual manias. What can be done about Comey?
Trump and Obama could agree to jointly sign the executive order to fire Comey.
Youre half-right. It is definitely about Comey, whose behavior was inexcusable, but it is most assuredly also about Putin and Russia, whose activities were hostile and oh-so-typical of the former KGB murderer and his coterie. Whether they somehow colluded, or simply acted independently to achieve the same horrific outcome, remains to be determined. But the investigation into Comey will not be pleasant for him, not should it be.
The Russians are totally responding in a way that will appeal to Trump - their puppet, by giving voice to his outdated (16 years ago ) excuse for not believing any current truths and educated updates: "In a message posted on Twitter, Alexey Pushkov, a member of the defense and security committee of the Russian Parliament’s upper house, ridiculed the American report as akin to C.I.A. assertions that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction." Yes, that is the very reason Trump gave for his original doubts! He will enjoy this 16 year old excuse as an affirmation to his delusions so he won't have to reckon wirh his embarrassment about not winning the election on his own.
3
If we had been a GROWN UP NATION, we would have negated the elections because of this hacking and Russia's interference and held them again in a year with new candidates, and new elections. Our current President is competent, and GROWN UP and we have nothing to fear from him.
9
As you said, if we were a GROWN UP NATION. But we are not :( democracy has retreated to the local communities.
We built the internet.
Shame on us for letting the Russians beat us at our own game.
Shame on us for letting the Russians beat us at our own game.
1
Anyone who knows anything about the history of electronic spying (e.g. the Zimmerman Telegram and the Ultra project) knows that when am intelligence coup is scored, the dilemma for the scorers is painful: To reveal enough evidence to make your claims legitimate but not to give your target enough information to neutralize those same sources, thus hindering or rendering impossible more information from them (and even putting some lives at risk). There is no happy medium and every case has to be balanced on its own. In the present instance, there is a lot of public information that tends to support the inference that the Russian oligarchy much prefers Trump to Clinton --- some of it is history, like Putin's well documented hatred for Clinton, some of it lies in Trump's own rather fawning praise for Putin, and there is that interesting Eric Trump reference to how much Russian money is invested in Trump's businesses.
But the true tell is out in the open: why were the hacks and leaks (which could well have been tweaked for effect) solely targeted at Clinton and the Democrats? Surely there was capability to hit the RNC too; but we heard none of that. Surely that is a pointer to what was going on, and who was doing the dirty work.
But the true tell is out in the open: why were the hacks and leaks (which could well have been tweaked for effect) solely targeted at Clinton and the Democrats? Surely there was capability to hit the RNC too; but we heard none of that. Surely that is a pointer to what was going on, and who was doing the dirty work.
4
As for Russian denial, well that's what Russians do. The Russian government is skilled at brainwashing the people and that is exactly what they are trying to do in our dear USofA. They deny reality and when you say you saw the sun come up they will tell you are wrong...it didn't come up and that's no sun. After years of this one starts to doubt one's own mind. Trump finds this a fine plan. Brainwashing, my friends.
Btw, I did a short survey of newspapers in southwest Virginia, coal country, where they voted for Trump. These papers have not put one word on the front page about Russian hacking, the CIA, etc. The stories in these papers are about the snowstorm, who died in a crash, who said what locally, sports, etc. Yes, these are local, small town newspapers but the people there are not receiving the real news except via Fox. The Russians could move tanks in their backyards and only then maybe they'd notice. The Dems. need to concentrate on taking the news to them.
Btw, I did a short survey of newspapers in southwest Virginia, coal country, where they voted for Trump. These papers have not put one word on the front page about Russian hacking, the CIA, etc. The stories in these papers are about the snowstorm, who died in a crash, who said what locally, sports, etc. Yes, these are local, small town newspapers but the people there are not receiving the real news except via Fox. The Russians could move tanks in their backyards and only then maybe they'd notice. The Dems. need to concentrate on taking the news to them.
14
The Kremlin is trying to sow distrust of the election. As usual, the treasonous Democrats are doing exactly what the Kremlin wants by spreading lies and fake news. Face facts traitors, Trump won fair and square!
5
Three lines as warped as anything the Tax Evader in Chief has said all year.
1
The funny thing I have noticed about modern conservatives is they always project.
1
Larry, you need to inform yourself. Remember that guy that went into the pizza parlor with an assault-lke AR-15 rifle and started to shoot? "The man read online that Comet Ping Pong, a pizza restaurant in northwest Washington, was harboring young children as sex slaves as part of a child-abuse ring led by Hillary Clinton. The articles making those allegations were widespread across the web, appearing on sites including Facebook and Twitter" (source, see link below).
These lies were spread by Republicans and Russians who were hired to do so. I know someone whose friend was hired by the Russia government to do this kind of thing. It's an easy buck, and you don't pay taxes on it.
You think this interference didn't influence the election? Get real!
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/05/business/media/comet-ping-pong-pizza-s...
These lies were spread by Republicans and Russians who were hired to do so. I know someone whose friend was hired by the Russia government to do this kind of thing. It's an easy buck, and you don't pay taxes on it.
You think this interference didn't influence the election? Get real!
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/05/business/media/comet-ping-pong-pizza-s...
I apologize in saying this but for US the wheel is turning full circle. As the Bible says "As you sow, so will you reap". What we did to others has now been done to us. I know it hurts, but this is exactly what other countries would have felt when we had a hand in appointing puppets in other countries.
20
What do you mean "We"?
As if "We" had anything to do with it.
As if "We" had anything to do with it.
At this point, I could really care less about what the Russian's think about this. They are an enemy of the United States and shame on President-Elect Trump for, not only siding with the Russians over the American people that he now serves, but for continuing to lie about what he knew and when he knew it. He should release his taxes so the American people can finally see just how involved his is and has been with the Russians. I've said it before, but will say again -- with this very unfit man in office, we are in for very dark days ahead.
18
Echoes of the Cold War.
Paging John Le Carrie, Bob Dylan, and Tom Lehrer.
Fasten yourseat-belts Americans.
Paging John Le Carrie, Bob Dylan, and Tom Lehrer.
Fasten yourseat-belts Americans.
8
Per Alexey Kovalyov, "America. Please chill."
The hysteria over Russian hacking reminds me of Casablanca--we're shocked, shocked to find out the Russians do what we Americans always have.
Big deal.
The hysteria over Russian hacking reminds me of Casablanca--we're shocked, shocked to find out the Russians do what we Americans always have.
Big deal.
12
Who cares about their reaction? I care that we're stuck in this mess.
9
Finally, Trump has found a like-minded ally who reliably echoes his message: don't trust US intelligence ever again because one time WMDs.
4
My message to Trump voters. In 4 years lets see how closely our government resembles Russia's.
Same kind of ridicule as when we thought they may have invaded the Ukraine. (Haha)
5
Kremlin in a win-win.
In case it did hack and got Trump elected, he is beholden to Putin naturally.
But if Kremlin did not hack, and the MSM propaganda makes Trump convinced that it did, than Trump would be needlessly beholden to Putin who will get a free ride for next 4-8 years, all because of the likes of NY Times.
Accusing someone of evil is a two-edged sword.
In case it did hack and got Trump elected, he is beholden to Putin naturally.
But if Kremlin did not hack, and the MSM propaganda makes Trump convinced that it did, than Trump would be needlessly beholden to Putin who will get a free ride for next 4-8 years, all because of the likes of NY Times.
Accusing someone of evil is a two-edged sword.
2
That's not the point. The hack was meant to discredit Hillary and favor Trump. It was the voters that elected Trump. The problem is that voters thought that fake news was real news and that leaked info from the DNC was a gift that helped them decide their vote. Now that we know the objective was to get Trump elected, and if not, to discredit Hillary, and that it was our chief adversary that was behind it, and that Trump refuses to acknowledge that it even happened, it makes you wonder where we are headed. Our next President is either naïve beyond belief, a fool or a traitor. Whichever is true, we're in for troubling times
If it were Russians, they would never left traces of code screaming 'hey, Russians have been here'. They are professionals afterwards. It looks like an internal job by people who hated Clintons and their dealings at the Foundation and hoped to cover their trucks by leaving "made in Russia" bits and pieces. As this investigation has demonstrated, they knew what they were doing.
8
Pwease. This is not a TV series.
That's the point. It's just too easy.
The Bush Administration's goading of the CIA to find WMDs in Iraq is the gift that keeps on giving, isn't it.
19
Yes, after 8 years of Obama/Clinton it's all W's fault. That's Obama and Hillary's excuse.
@jp
You evidently can't tell the difference between truth and an excuse.
And that fault is your own.
You evidently can't tell the difference between truth and an excuse.
And that fault is your own.
This is a remarkably uncolored account coming from the Times.
Key points. No new info, based on long held assumptions.
"The report provides no new evidence to support assertions that Moscow meddled covertly through hacking and other actions to boost the electoral chances of Donald J. Trump..."
Motive, we would have messed with them now would we??
"Russians, convinced that the United States orchestrated protests in Ukraine in 2014 that toppled the pro-Moscow president, Viktor F. Yanukovych, and other popular uprisings in former Soviet lands,"
Key points. No new info, based on long held assumptions.
"The report provides no new evidence to support assertions that Moscow meddled covertly through hacking and other actions to boost the electoral chances of Donald J. Trump..."
Motive, we would have messed with them now would we??
"Russians, convinced that the United States orchestrated protests in Ukraine in 2014 that toppled the pro-Moscow president, Viktor F. Yanukovych, and other popular uprisings in former Soviet lands,"
4
The Evidence Presented:
IP addresses loosely associated with the GRU entered the DNC servers, and, then, somehow, not clear how, the emails were delivered to Assange.
Press Hysterical Interpretation:
Russia "hacked" the American Election.
Really. This is about as bad as it gets where spinning information into unproven perceptions is relevant to try to bolster a weak and failing Democrat party elite.
But, we are able to tell the difference between spin around loose information and facts. Even now.
IP addresses loosely associated with the GRU entered the DNC servers, and, then, somehow, not clear how, the emails were delivered to Assange.
Press Hysterical Interpretation:
Russia "hacked" the American Election.
Really. This is about as bad as it gets where spinning information into unproven perceptions is relevant to try to bolster a weak and failing Democrat party elite.
But, we are able to tell the difference between spin around loose information and facts. Even now.
26
Well spoken comrade!
1
Sorry, Mikey.
But if you are, as you appear to be, a Trump supporter you have already established beyond any doubt that you are living in a fact free world.
But if you are, as you appear to be, a Trump supporter you have already established beyond any doubt that you are living in a fact free world.
1
Trump's businesses owe millions to Russians with the promise of even more future business opportunities. No wonder Trump is now the undisputed lapdog of Putin. He's a traitor to America! He's appointed very close friends of Russia to his cabinet. He rejected acknowledging the cyber war from Russia that made him illegitimate President. He violates the Constitution's emoluments clause through his international business ties. It's treason!
26
Even if the Russians did it, I don't feel they could have affected the outcome, as dome of the Russians themselves are saying.
When our congressmen get their panties all bunched up in a wad, they do paint a hilarious picture to those outside the US.
For all the bad things that our government did in numerous places around the world, funny looks is the kindest look our government officials deserve.
Consider:
1. Iran- We overthrew a democratically elected government and installed a puppet as a dictator at the for our oil barons. We are still paying for that mistake.
2. Saudi Arabia- We installed a religious fanatic, a pathetic tribal chieftain to secure oil interests. This regime is the source of most of the terrorism in the world and gifted us 9/11
3. Israel- We support what is essentially a british./european installation in the middle east. They displaced hundreds of thousands that aren't allowed to their homes in this day and age. Yes, Israel may be doing our dirty work but this tail wags a mighty dog.
4. China- Nixon wanted to be on the 'good side' of Mao and now we have an undemocratic regime that subjugates its own people and threatens any semblance of democracy anywhere in the world.
5. Pakistan- the little cesspool of islamic terrorism and nukes that houses old washed up terrorists
And then there is Iraq, Afghanistan, and the entire latin America and Cuba. About time we practice the morals we preach and earn back some RESPECT.
When our congressmen get their panties all bunched up in a wad, they do paint a hilarious picture to those outside the US.
For all the bad things that our government did in numerous places around the world, funny looks is the kindest look our government officials deserve.
Consider:
1. Iran- We overthrew a democratically elected government and installed a puppet as a dictator at the for our oil barons. We are still paying for that mistake.
2. Saudi Arabia- We installed a religious fanatic, a pathetic tribal chieftain to secure oil interests. This regime is the source of most of the terrorism in the world and gifted us 9/11
3. Israel- We support what is essentially a british./european installation in the middle east. They displaced hundreds of thousands that aren't allowed to their homes in this day and age. Yes, Israel may be doing our dirty work but this tail wags a mighty dog.
4. China- Nixon wanted to be on the 'good side' of Mao and now we have an undemocratic regime that subjugates its own people and threatens any semblance of democracy anywhere in the world.
5. Pakistan- the little cesspool of islamic terrorism and nukes that houses old washed up terrorists
And then there is Iraq, Afghanistan, and the entire latin America and Cuba. About time we practice the morals we preach and earn back some RESPECT.
16
So who did you support in the election. Obviously NOT Trump, right?
That question is irrelevant. As long as we don't hold our politicians to account when they don't stand up for our values, these disasters continue to happen.
Almost all of our problems are self-inflicted. From all my international travels, I feel that people all over the world love Americans and despise our politicians and policies.
So far they are able to see a distinction. But for how long? When the likes of Putin and the Chinese government are looked upon as some kind of balancing forces, isn't it obvious that we don't walk the talk?
Almost all of our problems are self-inflicted. From all my international travels, I feel that people all over the world love Americans and despise our politicians and policies.
So far they are able to see a distinction. But for how long? When the likes of Putin and the Chinese government are looked upon as some kind of balancing forces, isn't it obvious that we don't walk the talk?
"Putin was attending a church service"! Surely that`s proof enough that he spied on the election. When the Russians were atheistic communists we knew where we stood.
3
Disinformation. They created the concept. They lie for a living. You should trust NOTHING that comes out of "official" or unofficial Russian channels. Nothing. And the false equivalency to the Iraq WMDs is just laughable!
65
And CIA is a bastion of Truth? Where is the checks and balances? Nowhere. Where is the historical amnesia re CIA? everywhere.
How about showing evidence that Russia did this, instead of a bunch of assertions of "confidence"?
Come on..... this is global politics. Always has been and always will be. The allegations of tampering are for American public consumption from our own politburo. Simply to meant to aswage the feelings of the losers.
We fret, but the people who are having the real laughs are the Clerics in Iran whose prayers have obviously been answered, yet again.
The "great satan" stands divided - the next President against MSM, Democrats, Republicans, CIA, FBI, NSA ......
Blessings Iran gets from America for the last 30 years continue. At 1979 Revolution Iran was surrounded by enemies - USSR to north, Saddam to west, Communist/Taliban to east.
First in 1980s we destroyed USSR. Gone enemy to the north. Today Russia/Iran are partners in defense production.
Later in 1990s we emasculated then destroyed Saddam. Today Iraq is Iranian colony.
Then since 2001 we destroyed the Taliban. Today west half of Afghanistan is in effective Iranian control.
Thanks to America, Iran today is the only system in Asia - from Tokyo to Istanbul that has no enemies on its borders, Japan has China, China has India, India has Pakistan, Jews have Arabs.
With Trump the Divine Protection of Iran continues. Why should Iranians not laugh all the way to their mosques? While they shout "death to America", they murmur "thank you America".
The "great satan" stands divided - the next President against MSM, Democrats, Republicans, CIA, FBI, NSA ......
Blessings Iran gets from America for the last 30 years continue. At 1979 Revolution Iran was surrounded by enemies - USSR to north, Saddam to west, Communist/Taliban to east.
First in 1980s we destroyed USSR. Gone enemy to the north. Today Russia/Iran are partners in defense production.
Later in 1990s we emasculated then destroyed Saddam. Today Iraq is Iranian colony.
Then since 2001 we destroyed the Taliban. Today west half of Afghanistan is in effective Iranian control.
Thanks to America, Iran today is the only system in Asia - from Tokyo to Istanbul that has no enemies on its borders, Japan has China, China has India, India has Pakistan, Jews have Arabs.
With Trump the Divine Protection of Iran continues. Why should Iranians not laugh all the way to their mosques? While they shout "death to America", they murmur "thank you America".
20
Slaves need something to laugh about.
Offer your folks choices like civilized countries and see how long you survive.
Offer your folks choices like civilized countries and see how long you survive.
"First in 1980s we destroyed USSR."
You would have supported the USSr? Please give me a break. But as Americans we all support Israel, correct?
You would have supported the USSr? Please give me a break. But as Americans we all support Israel, correct?
All well and good, but as all their water slowly but surely dries up, it will matter naught
On a positive note
It's great that the Russians are the bad guys again
It's great that the Russians are the bad guys again
21
The bad guy is the immoral, pathological liar, Donald Trump.
Americans simply cannot abide the fact that they have been outsmarted.
If only they were smart enough to figure out how easy it is to do this!
If only they were smart enough to figure out how easy it is to do this!
not for your future president though...
It's basic psychology that when you're lying and hiding something, you react to exposure with angry sneering and sarcasm. Classic.
75
Similar to the sneering and anger we saw during the election, right?
Dems were reacting appropriately to an ignorant buffoon.
Yes, Obama and the establishment have reacted very angrily and sarcastically about their loss.
We have elections that will define our continent for a generation coming up. Russia will inevitably deploy the strategy that won them a Trump victory here.
We need to be strong, America is lost to us.
Europe needs to step up to the plate and become the shining city on the hill. Putin must find no foothold here
We need to be strong, America is lost to us.
Europe needs to step up to the plate and become the shining city on the hill. Putin must find no foothold here
25
Agreed. Canada and Europe have to move on. America is finished as a world leader for the West.
The question is how gullible the people in Scotland are. When voting on Brexit they seem to have been less gullible than those to their south. It would be nice if Putin realized that a strong united Europe doesn't necessarily work against his longer-term interests, but if all he is interested in are the short-term interests of his cronies, he will think that he will be strong only when they are weak.
But is the Middle East was more peaceful and stable, there might not be so many people trying to escape to western Europe and Brexit and the far right might not be so powerful in western Europe. What goes around comes around.
But is the Middle East was more peaceful and stable, there might not be so many people trying to escape to western Europe and Brexit and the far right might not be so powerful in western Europe. What goes around comes around.
To paraphrase Twain, "The reports of our death have been greatly exaggerated." The United States of America is not lost.
Is it in the interests of the US to blame Putin/Russia for everything?
18
No, just for what they do that isn't right.
Please explain... Your comment means nothing...
It used to be, in the days of the cold war, the Americans blamed everything on the Russians. Hopefully in the future they will use some discretion when using the blame weapon.
And more suspicious activity. The Kremlin propaganda machine repeating talking points used by Trump days earlier. How exactly why and did Snowden wind up in Moscow and how was he protected along the way? Curious to see how long before Trump pardons Snowden.
19
He ended up in Moscow after Obama scrambled jets to bring Snowden down dead or alive in order to keep him quiet. This is the issue you should be focusing on.
1
It has been traditional for Russian propaganda organs to monitor western media and copy the lines that appeal to them. It is also traditional that the lines they picked haven't been the most credible.
Whether Putin pardons Snowden isn't as important as whether the Americans, such as Trump, pardon him. The question is, what's in it for Trump. He would be more likely to pardon Assange. As for Snowden, he would at least then be able to travel the world without always looking over his shoulder. I'm sure he would like to be able to travel in the UK or the US, although I'm not sure he would want to stay there. I doubt anybody would recognize him in the US.
Whether Putin pardons Snowden isn't as important as whether the Americans, such as Trump, pardon him. The question is, what's in it for Trump. He would be more likely to pardon Assange. As for Snowden, he would at least then be able to travel the world without always looking over his shoulder. I'm sure he would like to be able to travel in the UK or the US, although I'm not sure he would want to stay there. I doubt anybody would recognize him in the US.
Glad you like helping the Russian goal of discrediting our democratic institutions. The media hysteria made that happen (it didn't exist in mid November).
How many times did the Russians deny Olympic doping in spite of all the evidence to the contrary?
55
I don't know....same number of times as Lance Armstrong, Rick Demont, Marion Jones, Crystal Cox, Tyler Hamilton, Tyson Gay, et al?
I'm shocked I tell you, shocked, that you could have charged us with doing this. We, the peace loving people of Russia, were at McDonalds having lunch when this happened. By the way, love those "Big Macs". Seriously, if we were into hacking we'd try to get the "secret sauce" recipe. It would be much better reading then the DNC emails, and better tasting. In fact we have a 400 pound guy working on that right now. So, nyet, it wasn't us. Ask any of the peace loving Russians in the Crimea, they'll tell you. So look someplace else America, nothing to see here, just move along.
13
So who's to say they don't already have the secret sauce and maybe they're improving it by adding Stoli!
To paraphrase: those dirty Reds!
Mission accomplished for Comrade Trump and Putin. Of course they are ridiculing us. He asked for their help live on television. I like Comrade's tweet about working together for the 'good of the WORLD.' Does he mean the slaughter of civilians in Aleppo, the annexation, of Crimea, and the invasion of Ukraine? Does he want to join with them to hack and commit 'acts of war' and 'espionage' against other sovereign nations? Does he think Americans are 'stupid' because they see through his, and Tillerson's, business deals with Putin?
22
If I was Tillerson I would find myself an "illness" and regretfully refuse the honor of a cabinet post. Anyone who joins Trump's cabinet will be shunned in polite society.
I blame Republicans in Congress. They are so eager to shovel taxpayer dollars to private pockets -- directly through more tax cuts and by device to contract privateers eyeing VA, Medicare and Social Security -- that they are willing to forgive any insult to the nation and the Constitution.
and just a few years ago, the Russians were our enemies.
The problem with Donald is, Putin knows how to play him. The Republicans are supposed to impeach him for playing back.
and just a few years ago, the Russians were our enemies.
The problem with Donald is, Putin knows how to play him. The Republicans are supposed to impeach him for playing back.
27
Then you will never accomplish anything if you don't cast some of that blame with the actions of the DNC and Democrats. Clean your own backyard before setting your sights on your neighbors.
It was apparent to opposing forces of Mao and Chiang Kai-shek that they had to battle the existential threat from the outside first, and then they could resolve the internal politics.
Our republic is under attack not only by Donald Trump and his corporate kleptocrats but by the anti-constitutional republicans in congress who put winning elections by any means over the good of the nation.
Our republic is under attack not only by Donald Trump and his corporate kleptocrats but by the anti-constitutional republicans in congress who put winning elections by any means over the good of the nation.
Very disturbing to read Pushkov's comments parroting Trump. Trump's continued defense of Russia is highly suspicious, especially after the briefing of the classified report on the cyber attack. But since the direct evidence including the forensics linking Putin and the Kremlin to the hack are classified, Trump sees a way to wiggle his way though this.
Of course an independent and external panel investigation of the hack is what the American people deserve, but the GOP leadership will never allow it.
Of course an independent and external panel investigation of the hack is what the American people deserve, but the GOP leadership will never allow it.
23
Many who are concerned with the undue influence of Russia in American elections should consider that this is the consequences of a modern world, with an internet that caters to the darker side of democracy. This sort of influence by social media has already occurred in countries such as South Korea, and Guatemala and is only the beginning.
Regardless of what could be determined by investigations, it would still likely be better to learn from this failure that does belong to both major political parties (in America, not Russia) that have failed in their mandate to address the needs of Americans. The fact that the already tweaked and played out election system has elected a Trump is a clear sign of that failure.
If this election has been influenced by an outside player, it demonstrates a weakness that must be addressed else we end up outsourcing our leadership to better leaders or political parties who may need to work under a HB-1 visa.
Regardless of what could be determined by investigations, it would still likely be better to learn from this failure that does belong to both major political parties (in America, not Russia) that have failed in their mandate to address the needs of Americans. The fact that the already tweaked and played out election system has elected a Trump is a clear sign of that failure.
If this election has been influenced by an outside player, it demonstrates a weakness that must be addressed else we end up outsourcing our leadership to better leaders or political parties who may need to work under a HB-1 visa.
Like I said before, Russian spokesmen are very good at parroting other people, not very good at developing their own arguments. Originality was never their thing.
Ridicule away, Russia, you've been nabbed, Russians. Your trolls are out in full force trying to denigrate the evidence and the conclusions of seventeen intelligence agencies.
Sorry, but the stink you have put on Trump won't wash off very easily, and every move made by Trump will now be viewed through the lens of, "How is this going to benefit Russia over the USA?"
Sorry, but the stink you have put on Trump won't wash off very easily, and every move made by Trump will now be viewed through the lens of, "How is this going to benefit Russia over the USA?"
50
Why do we need "seventeen intelligence agencies"? And do they talk to each other, or just defend their turf?
Besides, we've got them beat easily. We paid rebels in Syria to overthrow that government by violence. We helped Libya to meet a violent end to their government. No, we don't meddle much in other countries governments.
How arrogant and stupid is the ruling class in the US to declare, without any concrete evidence, that Russia has "influenced the election." Well more than arrogant and stupid, clearly they're very desperate to start a war with Russia before it's too late, and the next Great Depression begins, they really should pay attention, the American people aren't buying what they are selling and they have gone off the rails with their war mongering
56
They tried to influence he election. The American right-wing is in power now, so you should fear war. Just don't be surprised if the U.S. is allied with Putin's Russia this time.
Huh? Did I miss something in your comment? Your rant contains nothing of substance, at all... Yet it is 100 percent confident in its defense of Russia... completely void of coherent argument... Who is arrogant, John?
And, John, just how much Hannity do you absorb per week?
And, John, just how much Hannity do you absorb per week?
Who exactly is "the ruling class"? The Republicans rule. With an iron fist.
I am really tired of random individuals claiming to speak for "the American people". You definitely do not speak for me.
I am really tired of random individuals claiming to speak for "the American people". You definitely do not speak for me.
Same as they did when the doping scandal came out.
37
Somewhere, lawyers are carefully building the case for prosecuting or impeaching Donald Trump. This gives me hope.
56
Why? So Democrats can implement far right wing policies like drone bombing, NATO on Russia's border, NAFTA, and more bipartisan deregulation of the banks and Wall Street?
Do you prefer smoother far right policies done by Democrats?
Do you prefer smoother far right policies done by Democrats?
The same "Hope" you got from Obama?
Don't you wonder if the Republican leadership isn't secretly hoping to get rid of Trump and elevate Pence to the presidency? He is much more their style of Republican.
The emotional support, which officials of US - government offered to Ukrainian protesters 2013-14, had heavy consequences. The US - officials (Biden, Nuland) had been not aware of the possibility of civil war in Ukraine or didn't care. Everyone who knows the history of Ukraine, knows what its nationalists are able to. In winter 2013-14 they became an aggressive part of the protest movement. Later they became responsible for killing of thousands citizens in East Ukraine. That made people, (not only Russians) very angry. There is no need to make Putin guilty of hacking.
The net world was ready to show WHO IS CLINTON.
The net world was ready to show WHO IS CLINTON.
12
Are you unaware of the mass genocide of the Ukraine under Stalin? This is an enmity that has deep roots.
The net world was ready to LIE about Clinton, from killing Vince Foster (not) to running a child-rape ring from the basement of Comet Ping-Pong, which doesn't even HAVE a basement.
At least you're honest about being from Russia!
At least you're honest about being from Russia!
Clinton/Obama suckered the Ukrainians to take on Russia, knowing full well that Putin would react. Then left the Ukrainians to fend for themselves. The Ukraine situation sits squarely at the feet of Obama and HRC. They have spent their terms in office to start wars all over the world.
And the reason that Russia and Putin shelter the former Ukrainian leader who was discovered looting the country and being a Russian agent?
Oh, I see, it was just a mistake, like in the US.
Hugh Massengill, Eugene Oregon
Oh, I see, it was just a mistake, like in the US.
Hugh Massengill, Eugene Oregon
10
Well one good thing about Putin: at least he takes care of his own.
I read the report,, was actually a complete joke. embarrassing.Who cares about Russian TV in the US, who watches that? Russians! HOWEVER, it did say that all the leaked e-mails of Hillary Clinton were real! Yes real..no fakes..so that's the most important take here boys and girls. So does that mean indictments are coming? Probably...Made the Trump win all the more real...Thanks to our Intelligence community for telling a tale but at least we can decide..
25
Um, as to the leaked emails "of" Hillary Clnton ... which particular one offended you the most? Which contained the most damning information and caused the most damage to US foreign policy? Just asking, because just HAVING the server wasn't illegal. And indeed the State Department's own server was hacked (by the Russians) that the Department actually TOLD employees to use a service like Gmail instead.
Sorry Boris -- Clinton did nothing illegal. No indictments
2
Putin's poodle will make Amerika, the 1987 miniseries, become reality. This total incompetent will ruin this nation and his sycophantic republican stooges in Congress will willing go along with the destruction of what had once been a great nation.
29
:) You just made my year!
Hacker deniers abound with about the same number in Russia as US. Has anyone polled the public to see if they believe hacking took place? Do Americans believe the US government's agency reports? Seems media only repeated the hacked emails and did very little to investigate or report on their truth. I never saw a single news report that revealed fallacies, only regurgitations.
15
I have been reading a truly inspiring story about a brave, honest and righteous individual who lived 2000 years ago and who preached that one should "love their enemy". Now this individual was despised by the established ruling classes and particularly by the then high priest of this community because of this person's growing popularity among the marginalised of society in his day. The ruling classes were terrified that they would lose control of their power base and their wealth.
They were so afraid that they began to disparage, vilify and persecute this person.
I have not finished reading the story so I don't know its ending, and I am certainly not comparing the life and character of this historical individual with PE Trump, but I am struck by the similarity of the stories and the ridicule that this righteous man received and PE Trump is receiving by suggesting that "we love our enemies".
I will next post when I have finished this truly riveting story.
They were so afraid that they began to disparage, vilify and persecute this person.
I have not finished reading the story so I don't know its ending, and I am certainly not comparing the life and character of this historical individual with PE Trump, but I am struck by the similarity of the stories and the ridicule that this righteous man received and PE Trump is receiving by suggesting that "we love our enemies".
I will next post when I have finished this truly riveting story.
9
You have no shame to compare these individuals. One is a billionaire real estate invester who has routinely cheated and lied to people for decades the other was a poor individual who lived his words and deeds, he walked his talk. I believe you need to look a little deeper into what you chose to believe. I believe you are being deceived on a scale that is going to cost us our democracy that we have fought and died for for 200 years. So keep reading but examine your perspectives carefully.
You don't need to look back 2000 years ago to see a good man persecuted and tormented by his enemies. Just look at the life of Barack Obama and the past eight years.
I assume you meant your comments as some kind of satire, but when exactly has TRump ever suggesting loving ANYBODY except himself? As a Christian I find your comments particularly appalling.
I have watched as Donald Trump spewed profanity, denigrated women, and vilified Hispanic, Muslim, and Black people. I listened as he bragged about his many adulterous relationships and about sexually assaulting women and girls. I heard him refer to even his own wife and daughter in crude sexual terms. I witnessed him repeatedly lie, and saw reports of how often he cheated people out of money he owed them and made millions of dollars from gambling while he declared bankruptcy multiple times to avoid paying taxes. I observed how he waged a false Birther vendetta against Barack Obama and viciously attacked anyone else he considered to be his enemy. He slandered and libeled his political opponents from both parties, and I saw him boast in an interview that he never apologized, never admitted he was wrong, and never asked for forgiveness.
And you think criticism of Trump compares to what Christ endured? Bless your heart.
I assume you meant your comments as some kind of satire, but when exactly has TRump ever suggesting loving ANYBODY except himself? As a Christian I find your comments particularly appalling.
I have watched as Donald Trump spewed profanity, denigrated women, and vilified Hispanic, Muslim, and Black people. I listened as he bragged about his many adulterous relationships and about sexually assaulting women and girls. I heard him refer to even his own wife and daughter in crude sexual terms. I witnessed him repeatedly lie, and saw reports of how often he cheated people out of money he owed them and made millions of dollars from gambling while he declared bankruptcy multiple times to avoid paying taxes. I observed how he waged a false Birther vendetta against Barack Obama and viciously attacked anyone else he considered to be his enemy. He slandered and libeled his political opponents from both parties, and I saw him boast in an interview that he never apologized, never admitted he was wrong, and never asked for forgiveness.
And you think criticism of Trump compares to what Christ endured? Bless your heart.
Yes, and this brave, honest, righteous man of 2000 years ago spake unto his followers and said in the name of the love of humanity, build a long wall of stone, and to that wall of stone send armed Roman legions, lest those from other lands, who all rape women and steal grain and olives, trespass upon us. And this righteous man mocked the crippled, and when it was time to render unto his workmen their rightful share of loaves, he instead threatened to bring them before the pharisees if they were bold enough to lay claim to what they had worked for. And this brave, honest, righteous man said, "Lo, I am wealthy beyond all measure," but that is not enough. "I must have more power and more wealth, and all before me must bow down their countenances and acknowledge my greatness." Is that the story to which you allude?
Trump knew about the hacking. The signs are all there, and we are either too naive or blind to see them:
Trump literally urged the Russians to hack Clinton's emails: “I will tell you this, Russia: If you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing.” He then said, "By the way, they hacked -- they probably have her 33,000 e-mails."
Trump boasted he knew “things that other people don’t know” about the hacking. Is this just bluster from a silly blowhard, or the classic misstep of the criminal who can't keep his mouth shut?
Trump has consistently and bizarrely aligned himself with Putin. He refused to believe 19 US intelligence agencies' unanimous conclusion that Russia interfered in our national election to benefit him and damage Clinton. Is this just his fragile ego unable to tolerate a weak "win"? Why would an incoming president undermine our intelligence agencies?
Paul Manafort had deep ties to Russia and was paid $12.7 million in cash, according to this paper, representing a pro-Russian politician in the Ukraine.
Ivanka vacationed with Putin's girlfriend, Wendi Deng, in August: http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/08/ivanka-trump-wendi-deng-vacation
Has Russia cultivated a relationship with Trump for years to ensure his election? http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/10/veteran-spy-gave-fbi-info-al...
Connect the dots. There is much, much more to this picture than meets the eye.
Trump literally urged the Russians to hack Clinton's emails: “I will tell you this, Russia: If you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing.” He then said, "By the way, they hacked -- they probably have her 33,000 e-mails."
Trump boasted he knew “things that other people don’t know” about the hacking. Is this just bluster from a silly blowhard, or the classic misstep of the criminal who can't keep his mouth shut?
Trump has consistently and bizarrely aligned himself with Putin. He refused to believe 19 US intelligence agencies' unanimous conclusion that Russia interfered in our national election to benefit him and damage Clinton. Is this just his fragile ego unable to tolerate a weak "win"? Why would an incoming president undermine our intelligence agencies?
Paul Manafort had deep ties to Russia and was paid $12.7 million in cash, according to this paper, representing a pro-Russian politician in the Ukraine.
Ivanka vacationed with Putin's girlfriend, Wendi Deng, in August: http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/08/ivanka-trump-wendi-deng-vacation
Has Russia cultivated a relationship with Trump for years to ensure his election? http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/10/veteran-spy-gave-fbi-info-al...
Connect the dots. There is much, much more to this picture than meets the eye.
26
The 12/16 document "The Emoluments Clause: Its Text, Meaning, And Application to Donald J. Trump" by Eisen, Painter, and Tribe is at http://www.commoncause.org/democracy-wire/trump-conflicts-of-interest-ma...
In the comments section:
1) *Jan. 2 letter to Trump from 12 organizations plus individuals of both parties warning about Trump’s conflicts of interest violating the Emoluments Clause of the Constitution*
2) *2 websites about the Trump-Russia-Putin ties* including http://www.democraticcoalition.org/leaks
See: a) Video: “Donald Trump Jr. in Latvia talking about the many business deals he's looked at in Moscow (2012)”, b) Video: “Donald Trump admits to having a relationship with Putin while he is in Moscow for Miss Universe (2013)”, c) “Russian Business Connections: There are 249 LLCs registered in Russia that have 'Trump' in the name.” with a link to the list of companies. This is part of the Dworkin Report sent to Obama and others on 11/13 documenting 24 Trump-Russian ties missed by the FBI:http://www.democraticcoalition.org/updateddworkinreport
In the comments section:
1) *Jan. 2 letter to Trump from 12 organizations plus individuals of both parties warning about Trump’s conflicts of interest violating the Emoluments Clause of the Constitution*
2) *2 websites about the Trump-Russia-Putin ties* including http://www.democraticcoalition.org/leaks
See: a) Video: “Donald Trump Jr. in Latvia talking about the many business deals he's looked at in Moscow (2012)”, b) Video: “Donald Trump admits to having a relationship with Putin while he is in Moscow for Miss Universe (2013)”, c) “Russian Business Connections: There are 249 LLCs registered in Russia that have 'Trump' in the name.” with a link to the list of companies. This is part of the Dworkin Report sent to Obama and others on 11/13 documenting 24 Trump-Russian ties missed by the FBI:http://www.democraticcoalition.org/updateddworkinreport
1
The Office of the Director of National Intelligence requested $53 billion not so long ago, and that doesn't even include military intelligence. All told we probably spend close to $80 billion on intelligence. What Americans should be talking about (and are not) is why we spend so much money on so many black box projects and what is the real return on investment?
The return since 2000 has been negative. 9Eleven, WMD slam dunks, and other clown-like failures. If $80 billion can't even stop hackers from phishing the internal communications of one (or both) of our two major political parties (and potentially using that information to influence or, even worse, blackmail a future president), then we need to reconsider everything including immediately allocating at least half of this bloated budget to domestic infrastructure.
But, hey, we all know if someone proposes this, the important people with grim faces and clown-like failures will be featured on TV day and night telling the the world will end. Meanwhile, our infrastructure crumbles and the nation's real threat, like in 2008, emerges from within. Who will have the courage to stand up and tell these difficult truths?
The return since 2000 has been negative. 9Eleven, WMD slam dunks, and other clown-like failures. If $80 billion can't even stop hackers from phishing the internal communications of one (or both) of our two major political parties (and potentially using that information to influence or, even worse, blackmail a future president), then we need to reconsider everything including immediately allocating at least half of this bloated budget to domestic infrastructure.
But, hey, we all know if someone proposes this, the important people with grim faces and clown-like failures will be featured on TV day and night telling the the world will end. Meanwhile, our infrastructure crumbles and the nation's real threat, like in 2008, emerges from within. Who will have the courage to stand up and tell these difficult truths?
12
Putin must be very smart: He hacked the electoral college in favor of Trump and he hacked the popular vote in favor of the loosing candidate. This needs real brains, though NYT tells us that "But the absence of any concrete evidence in the report of meddling by the Kremlin..."
21
that information is classified, feel free to do research.
Oh, thank you! I am feeling very free. Did you do your "research"?
1
Sorry, Russians behaving like Russians is still not a viable substitute for the real story behind Hillary's embarrassing loss. Democrats are not going to be able to run away from that no matter how hard they try with these hacking stories.
42
AACNY, You are a bit confused. The members of our security agencies are almost all Republicans and NOT Democrats.
1
That's history, and there is no reasons for Democrats in strategic to spend any more time analyzing it at this point. The planet needs us to turn right away to the task at hand and that is holding Trump to account and to trying to deflect any efforts to cut Social Security and Medicare, any effort to disband the EPA, any effort to unfund climate science, and any effort to take money from real people and to funnel it to the rich.
The Democratic Party is already spamming everyone with requests for money! My reaction has been: why, what are you going to do with it this time?
An interesting thing to note is the way that Trump and Russian officials echo one another, seemingly as if they were coordinating.
For all the grousing about Obama being some kid of mysterious bogey man of a Manchurian Candidate during the first few years of his presidency, those same grouses fail to pick out the patsy about to rob the country blind.
For all the grousing about Obama being some kid of mysterious bogey man of a Manchurian Candidate during the first few years of his presidency, those same grouses fail to pick out the patsy about to rob the country blind.
26
Many of us find very serious faults with Trump, and will never get over our disappointment with him. Many others are glad he won. But both groups at least respect the outcome. Many of Clinton's supporters do not.
The time to fight Trump ended on Election Day. That day is over and Trump won. Even if he WAS brainwashed by the Russians (please -- Trump was a deeply flawed lightweight long before he met his first Russian), so what? If voters want a President who's been brainwashed by the Russians, they have a right to elect one. To insist after the fact that we should ignore the Electoral College system, or should encourage electors to ignore what the voters had to say, strikes me as un-American. Even if you believe that anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot, even idiots get to vote. That's the way it works here.
The reason we settled on democracy is that our founders, and many thinkers before them, believed that none of us -- not kings, not popes, not aristocrats, none of us -- has a greater right than any other of us to decide who should hold public office. Each of us gets a say, and we don't have to demonstrate that we're intelligent or educated or enlightened or whatever. You may think everyone who disagrees with you is stupid but, stupid or not, their vote counts just as much as yours.
So save it for the next election. Time to move on.