There will be a long line for reparations,American Indians,Chinese and Irish railway workers,Italians and Jews in the NYC slums,Japanese in internment camps. Where do I sign up.
7
Theoretically, reparations make sense, Logistically, it seems more executable on an institutional level (was your college built with slave labor?) than on an individual level. There are too many confounding factors on an individual level to create a system that would not be extraordinarily unwieldy.
2
Dyson makes the same critical mistake that The New York Times keeps making: misreading obviously tense situations for police as brutality.
Yes, Mr. Dyson, let's hear your horror stories about police.
But extraordinary care is needed, and it has not been taken, when making the brutality accusation when a killing occurs. You really want to call someone a murderer before you hear his side of the story? That's the tone of Dyson, BLM, and the Times.
Can you understand that millions will not buy into the hysteria?
Also, there's the "problem" that twice as many white guys are killed by police as black guys. Twice as many stories of woe and feelings of unfairness from white families that could be reported in the media. Police aren't choosing who they shoot by color. The majority of police shootings involve someone acting erratically with a deadly weapon. This leaves little room for a multitude of innocent people, sober and without a weapon, getting killed.
We should all be focusing on International Association of Chiefs of Police President, Terrence M. Cunningham, who publicly apologized "for the role our profession has played in society's historical mistreatment of communities of color." This, instead of tormenting blacks further with the idea that a group of people is out to kill them.
Yes, Mr. Dyson, let's hear your horror stories about police.
But extraordinary care is needed, and it has not been taken, when making the brutality accusation when a killing occurs. You really want to call someone a murderer before you hear his side of the story? That's the tone of Dyson, BLM, and the Times.
Can you understand that millions will not buy into the hysteria?
Also, there's the "problem" that twice as many white guys are killed by police as black guys. Twice as many stories of woe and feelings of unfairness from white families that could be reported in the media. Police aren't choosing who they shoot by color. The majority of police shootings involve someone acting erratically with a deadly weapon. This leaves little room for a multitude of innocent people, sober and without a weapon, getting killed.
We should all be focusing on International Association of Chiefs of Police President, Terrence M. Cunningham, who publicly apologized "for the role our profession has played in society's historical mistreatment of communities of color." This, instead of tormenting blacks further with the idea that a group of people is out to kill them.
11
I've concluded Ms. Cox's column should be called "What White People Must Learn". It has nothing to do with “Talk.” Ms. Cox traffics in race. It's her brand and a lucrative niche at that. Likewise Mr. Dyson does the same only he adds demagoguery and racism to his skill sets. Labeling an entire race as guilty and all but asking them to kneel at the altar of shame is exactly what we don't need now. We’re walking into a catastrophe of a Presidency and Liberals stand partially to blame. They’re determined to separate us in an effort to soothe their misplaced guilt. I suggest we call them SLWP's - Self Loathing White People. Millions of us Whites have climbed out of poverty, grew up in neighborhoods and attended schools where we were minorities and forged life long relationships with people who don't look like us. We’ve rejected injustices and worked to end them – all while remaining proud of our European heritage. And that’s ok. Last week Ms. Cox let a column slip through featuring Vivek Murthy - our Surgeon General. However she neglected to feature his race and the lessons he has to teach White people. Instead we marveled at a human who has excelled in his profession, has a gentle spirit and incredible intellect. Unlikely the NYT will allow more of this. Conflict is a hot and lucrative business. As a life long Liberal I’ve untethered from the group. Please consider doing the same. Leave them to their self-righteous nonsense then let’s set out and get the real work done.
22
Dear Professor Dyson,
Thank you for sharing your embarrassing ideas with the world and helping to elect Donald J. Trump to the White House. Most African Americans I know do not sit around hoping that white people contribute to their Individual Reparations Account--they have way too much common and political sense.
Thank you for sharing your embarrassing ideas with the world and helping to elect Donald J. Trump to the White House. Most African Americans I know do not sit around hoping that white people contribute to their Individual Reparations Account--they have way too much common and political sense.
30
identity politics and pc-ness were instrumental in getting Trump the win. Think about that, sjws.
10
Individual reparations? Good luck with that.
3
Typical progressive rubbish. Regarding reparations, I consider the debt paid by the 360,00 Union casualties suffered to free the slaves and the 50 years of liberal social welfare spending which has gone, disproportionatly, to black Americans.
17
I don't know about paying people more. I'd have to think about that.
I do however make an effort to extend extra courtesies to people who are not obviously white because they may have been slighted by others.
I have no way to walk in others' shoes. Not really. I just want to make one person's life a bit easier for one moment.
Having put that down in black and white though I kinda sound patronizing.
I do however make an effort to extend extra courtesies to people who are not obviously white because they may have been slighted by others.
I have no way to walk in others' shoes. Not really. I just want to make one person's life a bit easier for one moment.
Having put that down in black and white though I kinda sound patronizing.
6
It would be helpful for all posters who support reparations to disclose if they believe they would qualify to receive such payments. Of those supporters who do not anticipate qualifying to receive payments, it would be helpful to know if they are already giving their money to slave descendants and, if not, why they are waiting.
1
No one like to hear the truth white people, black people, Asian people. Truth looks you in the face and may say change or else. Mr. Dyeing should remember that.
As to his sermon, racism and prejudice exists. We, all of us, need to oppose it in all its forms. White people are no more perfect than black people but they have stepped up in very, very large numbers to fight for civil rights often to the loss of their lives or careers. Of course, I know that makes me a racist. How dare I praise white civil rights supporters or those who have voted for and supported equality and voters rights. But I'll live on the edge.
We would all do well to recognize that the more we divide ourselves the easier it is for corporations and other powerful interests to take it all. Once it's gone we will all be equally oppressed and I don't think that is the kind of world MLK envisioned.
I say power to the humans!
As to his sermon, racism and prejudice exists. We, all of us, need to oppose it in all its forms. White people are no more perfect than black people but they have stepped up in very, very large numbers to fight for civil rights often to the loss of their lives or careers. Of course, I know that makes me a racist. How dare I praise white civil rights supporters or those who have voted for and supported equality and voters rights. But I'll live on the edge.
We would all do well to recognize that the more we divide ourselves the easier it is for corporations and other powerful interests to take it all. Once it's gone we will all be equally oppressed and I don't think that is the kind of world MLK envisioned.
I say power to the humans!
7
Some of my ancestors became wealthy through slave ownership. This wealth is gone but I see how those of us since have still benefited through access to education and useful business contacts. I feel no guilt for this but I believe I carry a special duty to never forget. I have tried to share with others along the way as a result. So while I don't exactly have an "IRA", I agree with and try to live the spirit of the essay.
My situation is uncommon. I don't think "whites" or the nation as a whole are in the same situation. Most of my friends are descendants of post-Civil War European immigrants, Asian immigrants and, especially, poor Southern whites. They've got their own histories of discrimination. Still other folks' ancestors fought and died to abolish slavery.
It seems unfair to stick any of these with guilt or a reparations bill.
The broader nation should skip "reparations" and just apply itself more diligently to non-discrimination, safety, healthcare, education and opportunity for all, regardless of family history, ethnicity, race.
My situation is uncommon. I don't think "whites" or the nation as a whole are in the same situation. Most of my friends are descendants of post-Civil War European immigrants, Asian immigrants and, especially, poor Southern whites. They've got their own histories of discrimination. Still other folks' ancestors fought and died to abolish slavery.
It seems unfair to stick any of these with guilt or a reparations bill.
The broader nation should skip "reparations" and just apply itself more diligently to non-discrimination, safety, healthcare, education and opportunity for all, regardless of family history, ethnicity, race.
11
I read this 30 years ago. I'll be reading it again in 30. Humans are humans, and we will always be wired to see people as different.
1
Big fan. Needs to invest in better shoes.
Michael Dyson has his Detroit street “creds,” so he knows what I’m talking about: He’s talking too much. It’s time to stop the so-called racial dialogue. Blacks do have a common consensus but we need to hear that same consensus from whites. We know what Trump and his followers think but does that include the thoughts of people like Stephen Hawking, Faith Hill?
For example, how extensive is the view that the failure to convict O.J. Simpson absolves white people from any future responsibility for human rights issues like Ann Coulter claims? (For the record, Blacks didn’t rejoice over O.J.s trial results. Outside of perhaps L.A., Blacks didn’t even care about Simpson. Those who even had an opinion tended to agree with the jury that the prosecution failed to prove its case beyond a shadow of a doubt. After football, Simpson became a part of a community in which Blacks had absolutely no connection.)
I trust Mr. Dyson’s capability to hear white people and summarize their collective consensus of their view of America’s race problem.
Mr. Dyson, you are comissioned to listen
For example, how extensive is the view that the failure to convict O.J. Simpson absolves white people from any future responsibility for human rights issues like Ann Coulter claims? (For the record, Blacks didn’t rejoice over O.J.s trial results. Outside of perhaps L.A., Blacks didn’t even care about Simpson. Those who even had an opinion tended to agree with the jury that the prosecution failed to prove its case beyond a shadow of a doubt. After football, Simpson became a part of a community in which Blacks had absolutely no connection.)
I trust Mr. Dyson’s capability to hear white people and summarize their collective consensus of their view of America’s race problem.
Mr. Dyson, you are comissioned to listen
3
"That gave me pause!"
Hard-hitting stuff, Ms. Cox.
Hard-hitting stuff, Ms. Cox.
1
Under tort law, one who has suffered injury must show the loss he or she has incurred because of the wrongful act of the parties now judged liable. Thus, those claiming damages (i.e., reparations) should show how their current position leaves them worse off than if the acts now sued upon had not occurred. Under this principle, it is difficult to argue or otherwise provide evidence that any compensable loss (especially in the aggregate) has occurred as the result of slavery, If those people extracted from Africa against humane values had not been so mistreated, their USA born descendants would in the aggregate (almost certainly) live today (if they were alive at all) under conditions of life inferior to those they do experience in contemporary USA.
Nothing here is intended to deny unjust treatment of many people alive today. That poses a different issue. But please, do not allege that the reprehensible institution of slavery has diminished their lives today. Quite the opposite.
To harken the past in such a debatable manner misdirects and even retards the social changes that apply to contemporary USA. It also denies respect and dignity by omitting personal responsibility from the discussion of problems and their most effective alleviations.
Nothing here is intended to deny unjust treatment of many people alive today. That poses a different issue. But please, do not allege that the reprehensible institution of slavery has diminished their lives today. Quite the opposite.
To harken the past in such a debatable manner misdirects and even retards the social changes that apply to contemporary USA. It also denies respect and dignity by omitting personal responsibility from the discussion of problems and their most effective alleviations.
11
Must be nice to live in an alternative reality.
19
Paul
What are your bona fides to lecture on this issue?
Based on your comments they must overturn the modern intellectual tradition. How can one instruct so well in The Truth without breaking through into another level not yet publicly known? I look forward to reading your peer reviewed paper. And enlightenment.
What are your bona fides to lecture on this issue?
Based on your comments they must overturn the modern intellectual tradition. How can one instruct so well in The Truth without breaking through into another level not yet publicly known? I look forward to reading your peer reviewed paper. And enlightenment.
2
I thoroughly enjoy listening to Mr. Dyson and read his articles and opinion pieces.
One thought keeps knawing at me- if Mr. Dyson's main point is to advocate us to change our race relations and culture through individual acts rather than through the government, then why does he continue to support the Democratic party?
And, how would reparations from American taxpayers who have never owned slaves somehow encourage these individual acts of reparations that he advocates?
One thought keeps knawing at me- if Mr. Dyson's main point is to advocate us to change our race relations and culture through individual acts rather than through the government, then why does he continue to support the Democratic party?
And, how would reparations from American taxpayers who have never owned slaves somehow encourage these individual acts of reparations that he advocates?
6
i have a black friend.
Oh but wait. His mother was white, an immigrant from the Near East. His father was partly black, partly Native American, and a small part white. So my friend, who looks black and who identifies as black is actually less than 50% of African descent.
So who owes whom? Does he owe himself reparations? How about me? My ancestors were in Europe until after the year 1900. They had nothing to do with slavery in North America. So do I own my friend reparations?
Oh but wait. His mother was white, an immigrant from the Near East. His father was partly black, partly Native American, and a small part white. So my friend, who looks black and who identifies as black is actually less than 50% of African descent.
So who owes whom? Does he owe himself reparations? How about me? My ancestors were in Europe until after the year 1900. They had nothing to do with slavery in North America. So do I own my friend reparations?
37
I find it astonishing that the one thing that galvanizes all of the negative comments here is the thought of giving away some of your hard-earned money. Y'all would rather come up with a system so complicated that NO ONE EVER GETS ANYTHING and YOU DON'T HAVE TO PART WITH A PENNY rather than share even the tiniest bit of your good fortune with the people upon whose backs that good fortune was made. It's simple people: if you are thriving in America today you are succeeding on the backs of slaves and until that is acknowledged and made good, then success in this so-called country of opportunity will be hollow. You can't make token efforts. You have to mean it. It has to hurt. I'm quite sure Mr. Dyson understood quite well that he only had to push the money button to really get the white folks mad. Share people. Share the burden, share the history, share the pain, share the injustice. And share your money. I am a white person who is trying to understand and fully grasp racial inequality in American society, a situation that has sickened me my whole life. I have been waiting for someone to say, "Hey, maybe you just don't know what to do, so if that's the case and you want to help, here it is." So thank you, Mr. Dyson. Frankly I'll try anything and everything because we have to make this better. And to the pathetically selfish complainers, shame on you. Put up AND shut up. At least until you have something at least SLIGHTLY empathetic to say.
24
You find it astonishing that most peoples default position is keeping what's theirs? It seems pretty reasonable that the onus should be on the people making a case for reparations. And in a country where the majority of citizens ancestors came here after 1865 it is a hard case to make.
11
Dyson says: "I ain't turning $25 million down." Yes, it is all about greed, all around.
7
And what about mixed race citizens descended from both slaves and slave owners?
Do they pay themselves reparations?
The whole idea is ludicrous and destructive.
Do they pay themselves reparations?
The whole idea is ludicrous and destructive.
25
As a white--and trying to get woke--pediatric hospitalist, I spend extra time with my black (and other minority) patients and families, try to be extra comforting to the children and extra useful to the parents. I am conscious of this bias in how I treat my patients and have always felt a little embarrassed and guilty about this "secret" behavior. This article provides some reassurance.
11
Same here. I'm a fireman, and I'm much more diligent and attentive to saving the homes and lives of black people than those of whites.
4
Trauma is passed down through the generations. Expose mice to a pleasant smell followed immediately by a loud, startling, upsetting noise until they are conditioned to associate the pleasing smell with a traumatizing stimulus. Then take sperm from one of the traumatized males and artificially inseminate an unexposed female and everyone of her litter will go into traumatic shock when exposed to just the nice aroma. Without further trauma, it takes five generations of mice before the effects wear off. Often a trait which is considered purely genetic in humans is actually an echo of past injury.
250 years of slavery, 100 years of Jim Crow, ongoing criminal injustice towards Blacks in the form of police brutality and mass incarceration, housing discrimination and inferior schools guarantee many more generations of sizable injury to Black potential.
How is this good for our collective future? Please stop the madness.
250 years of slavery, 100 years of Jim Crow, ongoing criminal injustice towards Blacks in the form of police brutality and mass incarceration, housing discrimination and inferior schools guarantee many more generations of sizable injury to Black potential.
How is this good for our collective future? Please stop the madness.
8
Please stop this ridiculous whining. Many of us had nothing to do with slavery. Many of our family members suffered discrimination from people who arrived from Europe after we did. We got over it, so should you.
10
Are your people CURRENTLY being shot down in the streets by rogue cops? Discriminated against in housing and employment? Would you be scared for your son's safety if he happened to be Black?
5
This "Talk" with Mr. Dyson and the comments it generated prove that dealing with the topic of reparations gets us away from the real issue of equality that affect people today. A society where black lives matter just as much as any other group would do unto them as we would want done unto ourselves. How's that for a sermon Mr. Dyson?
2
Lou, the Golden Rule is not the one to be evoked here, but rather the Platinum one: Treat others the way they want to be treated.
And what Dr. Dyson and many others have been saying since the issuance of Special Field Order No. 15 in 1865 is that reparations are in order.
I mourn for the loss of an America that might have been, had that order been allowed to be fully implemented. And I am grateful for the voices of Dr. Dyson and others who continue to believe that there is still hope for justice in this regard.
And what Dr. Dyson and many others have been saying since the issuance of Special Field Order No. 15 in 1865 is that reparations are in order.
I mourn for the loss of an America that might have been, had that order been allowed to be fully implemented. And I am grateful for the voices of Dr. Dyson and others who continue to believe that there is still hope for justice in this regard.
2
I am nearing my 60th year. In my earlier years I have committed what Bush II termed "Youthful Indiscretions". I know that I was able to get past my years of less than stellar judgement without a record due to white privilege. I have had discussions with others who agreed that if we were minorities we would not have been so lucky to be told to "go home and sleep it off". My family came to this country in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. We did not own slaves but neither did we feel the discrimination and injustice that blacks have experienced. I cannot help but believe that there must be something I can do to help balance the scales a bit. I give to my local food bank and other charities but cannot say I have ever donated to an organization created to specifically help black Americans. I believe i will start. Will it solve the injustices perpetrated against blacks throughout the history of this country? Not in any way. I can also endeavor to treat each and every person I meet the same no matter what is on the outside.
6
I cannot wait to buy this book. I believe in reparations. The free labor that was provided by slavery MUST be accounted for. I rather my tax dollars go to this just cause than funding Israel's defense budget, especially since Israel is much more wealthy that the US, on a per capita basis.
5
When the United States government paid reparations to Japanese-Americans, we all paid. The entire nation, planters (north and south), slave sellers, universities, bankers, insurers, shippers, cotton manufacturers, clothiers, etc. made money from king cotton, sugar, tobacco, indigo, and the slave trade. So, reparations would be paid from the government coffers. Reparations must be paid to descendants of enslaved people and each recipient must proved lineal descent. This is possible through genealogical research. It can be done and it must be done. I also believe reparations are due for today's racial disparities in law enforcement and the fake war on drugs which disproportionately impacted African-Americans.
4
The Japanese_Americans paid were actual victims of a government policy, not their great, great, grandchildren. The German government paid reparations to actual victims of the Holocaust, not their descendants. Should Egypt pay reparations to descendants of Moses and all the other slaves that built the pyramids? If not where do you draw the line?
27
Much of this discussion has been about slavery. What about reparations about what has gone on in our own lifetimes? My grandparents benefited from FDR's New Deal, which did not treat racial minorities equally. As my family moved into the middle class, we were not redlined out of a "nice" neighborhood. A bank was willing to grant my parents a mortgage. My success is based on hard work and untold amount of privilege, generation after generation, allowing wealth to be passed down to younger generations. If any of these privileges--and an unknown number of others-- had not been granted, I would not be where I am today.
6
Even having been raised by a mother who strongly walked all her talk about racial and social justice, I was still somewhat surprised that what Dr. Dyson calls "individual reparations" reflects my own way of understanding of making a contribution to racial justice and human decency.
By this, I do not mean having authentic, meaningful, close friendships with black people, although this is true. My sense of these relationships, some of which are "family," is that they have benefited me far more than I have benefited the black people in my life. Indeed, the kindness, generosity, strength, courage, wisdom, and humor shared with me by black people has literally made my life worth living in many ways.
In terms of so-called individual reparations, I believe each and every white person should find the most appropriate and meaningful ways to do whatever is possible to improve the life of a black person and hopefully many black people. This individual reparation is as much for the soul of the white person as for the enhancement of a black person. Every white person in America has benefited from white privilege and these benefits were unearned and derived from our horrific history of white supremacy that continues to oppress black people to this very day.
And, yes, I know ideally this should be done in our relationships with all people, but I have chosen to do what I can for those who have done so much for me.
By this, I do not mean having authentic, meaningful, close friendships with black people, although this is true. My sense of these relationships, some of which are "family," is that they have benefited me far more than I have benefited the black people in my life. Indeed, the kindness, generosity, strength, courage, wisdom, and humor shared with me by black people has literally made my life worth living in many ways.
In terms of so-called individual reparations, I believe each and every white person should find the most appropriate and meaningful ways to do whatever is possible to improve the life of a black person and hopefully many black people. This individual reparation is as much for the soul of the white person as for the enhancement of a black person. Every white person in America has benefited from white privilege and these benefits were unearned and derived from our horrific history of white supremacy that continues to oppress black people to this very day.
And, yes, I know ideally this should be done in our relationships with all people, but I have chosen to do what I can for those who have done so much for me.
8
I don't agree with much of what Dyson say but i do respect him and enjoy reading and listening to him. But having a fawning Ana Marie Cox do this interview was a mistake. Asking real questions and challenging some of Dyson points would having been far better then non-questions like "I can’t help but think that if the same levels of police brutality were happening to white people, we would just disband the police". It made what could have a good piece a waste of time.
8
The bitterness and hostility in these comments are truly astonishing....in all but 2 of the foregoing. Really people, get a grip, have some humanity. This was loathsome.
4
Who specifically should make these reparations? Americans that have descended from slave owners? Is it reasonable to assert that those Americans with no connection to or responsibility for enslavement in the United States should participate in restitution measures?
11
our entire economy, north and south, was built on the labor of enslaved people. That wealth still exists, and by and large the descendants of those people are still kept from full and fair participation in the legacy their ancestors created. I am not in that group and am probably among those who will be taxed to pay for it (even though my ancestors didn't arrive in this country until the beginning of the 1900') but this country must deal with our "original sin", first through a process of reconciliation and then, yes, some kind of compensation. Will it be perfect? As perfect as any human endeavor. Will some people who don't "deserve" compensation receive it? Possibly. But then there are those who are still benefiting from that legacy who never earned those benefits either. There are models for this in the compensation paid to many categories of Nazi victims. A process was created and those who passed through that process were compensated. We will not ever expunge the horror of slavery if we don't confront its evils and what remains of them to this day.
1
I'm a little confused. I'm woken enough to know speaking about people as a group is as best prejudice, at worst racist. So when "white people" are continually referred to as a group, I'm assuming it's now ok to speak about black people as a group. Isn't that how all this started?
43
No, "all this" started with the arrival of the first enslaved Africans in the 1600's
1
Which had nothing to do with the USA--much less today's Americans.
5
Let's assume "reparations" become a thing. Where dos it end? Should the generations of German born after WWII continue to pay "reparations" to the Jewish slave labor who toiled in German factories producing consumer goods? Should we pay reparations to the descendants of indigenous Americans for having stolen their land? What do the Armenians deserve from the Turks? What do the Turks deserve from the Greeks? Given the endless list of grievances that everyone has suffered at the hands of everyone else, what makes reparations to African Americans deserving of unique attention?
The notion of "reparations" may be superficially consoling, the questions remains: where does it end? Moreover, if I immigrated to this country recently, and none of my ancestors had any role in slavery, there isn't any logical reason that I "owe" anyone anything.
The notion of "reparations" may be superficially consoling, the questions remains: where does it end? Moreover, if I immigrated to this country recently, and none of my ancestors had any role in slavery, there isn't any logical reason that I "owe" anyone anything.
25
You do know the Germans paid Jewish people reparations and much of that money went into establishing Israel...right?
5
To "Uncommon Wisdom"'s comment about what if s/he came to this country recently and had no slave-owning ancestors?
I used to feel the same way. As a white Jewish person whose grandparents all came from Europe (well, at least 3 of the 4 for sure), I figured I had an "alibi" over slavery. My folks weren't even here, and were probably close to slaves themselves, in Russia.
Still. When they got here, poor though they were, they did not face hurdles that black people did. In essence, they were able to walk in on the ground floor, while African-Americans were still trying to get up out of the basement.
No idea how to redress that -- but I can see it is an enduring factor.
I used to feel the same way. As a white Jewish person whose grandparents all came from Europe (well, at least 3 of the 4 for sure), I figured I had an "alibi" over slavery. My folks weren't even here, and were probably close to slaves themselves, in Russia.
Still. When they got here, poor though they were, they did not face hurdles that black people did. In essence, they were able to walk in on the ground floor, while African-Americans were still trying to get up out of the basement.
No idea how to redress that -- but I can see it is an enduring factor.
5
but you are benefiting from the wealth created by those enslaved laborers, and reparations, as a public responsibility, would be paid for just as any other public responsibility. let's just get started!
1
As I read this I could not help but to brace myself for the angry comments that were sure to follow Mr. Dyson's provocative position. But then I realized this is the way that I, as a Black American, really feel. This article revealed to me how conditioned I am to predict and coddle the white response.
12
Speaking as an old white woman, I agree with you completely. Thanks for suggesting it.
4
"paying “the black person who cuts your grass double what you might ordinarily pay.” That gave me pause!"
As well it should, Ms. Cox. What's you've just described is a fairly cut & dry example of racial discrimination.
As well it should, Ms. Cox. What's you've just described is a fairly cut & dry example of racial discrimination.
15
It is not discrimination. No person of any color incurs any loss because of this policy.
I wonder whether counterclaims will be allowed in the reparations proceedings?
5
Professor Michael Eric Dyson and Ana Marie Cox are Republicans' BFFs. As long as they perpetuate the falsehood that the interests of the white working class and minorities are in opposition and instruct the former that they should hand over their scarce dollars to privileged people like Dyson, Republicans will win elections.
22
I agree with the author that there "are a lot of areas within race relations that seem less of a conversation." Indeed, these non-conversations often seem like a lecture that white americans are de facto racists. Most people are busy trying to keep their own lives together have few occasions or opportunities to prove the negative that they're not racist. Should I offer a fist bump to a black guy I see in Whole Foods, saying "Yo, just want to let you know I'm woke!"
21
Descendants of black slave traders - do they get individual reparations?
Descendants of white families that lost everything as abolitionists - do they get individual reparations?
Who did what to whom is not as cut and dried as some academics like to make it. The institution of slavery has been an abomination every single time it's existed in human history and for every race and class of people it exploited. But it's so much more complex than white=slaver and black=victim. Unfortunately, a lot of empathy is lost when responsibility isn't applied to everyone who deserves it, and some of those people are black. I'm not going to be open to the point you're trying to make if the first thing I have to do is defend myself against crimes you assume my family and I committed. Maybe I should get a special "abolitionist descendant" button to wear.
Descendants of white families that lost everything as abolitionists - do they get individual reparations?
Who did what to whom is not as cut and dried as some academics like to make it. The institution of slavery has been an abomination every single time it's existed in human history and for every race and class of people it exploited. But it's so much more complex than white=slaver and black=victim. Unfortunately, a lot of empathy is lost when responsibility isn't applied to everyone who deserves it, and some of those people are black. I'm not going to be open to the point you're trying to make if the first thing I have to do is defend myself against crimes you assume my family and I committed. Maybe I should get a special "abolitionist descendant" button to wear.
14
Does police brutality exist? Absolutely! However, let us not forget that each officer has their own previous experiences, fears, and personalities (good, bad and ugly) and bring their "baggage" to the job.
Ex: The officer that meekly spoke to the white boy may naturally be a passive person and react to all citizens in that manner. A volital officer may have also been impulsive and angry during his youth-with people of all races.
At what point do we become more selective of the officers we hire and train? Perhaps we pay officers a competitive salary and attract more qualified, stable and college educated officers. I believe we would see a significant decline in police brutality.
Ex: The officer that meekly spoke to the white boy may naturally be a passive person and react to all citizens in that manner. A volital officer may have also been impulsive and angry during his youth-with people of all races.
At what point do we become more selective of the officers we hire and train? Perhaps we pay officers a competitive salary and attract more qualified, stable and college educated officers. I believe we would see a significant decline in police brutality.
3
Yes, we are owed Reparation African people all over the world.
Whites says no we are not owed reparations, they say look at all the welfare we have gotten, for firty years, I really don't know the exact time, but keep in mind we were held for 400 years, no pay, lived worse than animals, lynched, and harrassed by whites, and still today most African people do not have a decent job, because the decendanst of slave holders control the jobs, we are pushed out of school, because of a racist curriculum, we are brain washed by a racist curriculum, African people in America and many other countries do not know who they are, or where we came from. We are owed the world, all that whites control, and benefit, came about because of the autocities against African people.
Whites says no we are not owed reparations, they say look at all the welfare we have gotten, for firty years, I really don't know the exact time, but keep in mind we were held for 400 years, no pay, lived worse than animals, lynched, and harrassed by whites, and still today most African people do not have a decent job, because the decendanst of slave holders control the jobs, we are pushed out of school, because of a racist curriculum, we are brain washed by a racist curriculum, African people in America and many other countries do not know who they are, or where we came from. We are owed the world, all that whites control, and benefit, came about because of the autocities against African people.
3
Slavery happened. It was not a special institution invented by Americans. The Europeans as they explored utilized the existing slavery to exact as much wealth as possible from the areas they found/discovered. It was immoral; it is immoral (as it continues throughout the world today).
The problem I have with many of the ideas shared here surrounds the facts that are commonly known and understood: 1) Slavery was an economic institution. It was 're-vamped' via societal semantics and surfaced as the feudal system, the hacienda system, the encomienda system (very similar, not the same though). 2) As these various systems evolved, legal ways to continue slavery developed and civilization used the apprentice system to maintain a 'cheap' workforce; in the various 'feudal' styled systems the 'FREE' FOLK owed work to the master or masters or government and s0 on (mita). There are many historic lines that could be used to prove that freemen are usually not as free as they suppose themselves to be. 3) Today's minimum wage; draft and even the internship concept where they get paid nothing, something, very little and in many events even pay to work for someone.... Slavery is Alive and Well.
There are many issues regarding race relations that need to be addressed - some may relate to the former slavery imposed here - but I owe you nothing. Again, there are issues surrounding attitudes, education and opportunity, but reparations will create/re-open wounds, not heal the situation.
The problem I have with many of the ideas shared here surrounds the facts that are commonly known and understood: 1) Slavery was an economic institution. It was 're-vamped' via societal semantics and surfaced as the feudal system, the hacienda system, the encomienda system (very similar, not the same though). 2) As these various systems evolved, legal ways to continue slavery developed and civilization used the apprentice system to maintain a 'cheap' workforce; in the various 'feudal' styled systems the 'FREE' FOLK owed work to the master or masters or government and s0 on (mita). There are many historic lines that could be used to prove that freemen are usually not as free as they suppose themselves to be. 3) Today's minimum wage; draft and even the internship concept where they get paid nothing, something, very little and in many events even pay to work for someone.... Slavery is Alive and Well.
There are many issues regarding race relations that need to be addressed - some may relate to the former slavery imposed here - but I owe you nothing. Again, there are issues surrounding attitudes, education and opportunity, but reparations will create/re-open wounds, not heal the situation.
4
Dan. Holding a people in slavery, you say was an economy institution, are you saying it was right? If you think so, you are in denial. Human Rights Violations, are crimes, so who is going to pay? The ones who benefit from the crimes today.
As a black person who has done manual labor I would have been highly insulted if some white person paid me double for my work just because I am black. I would have felt condescended to. I want to be paid just like everyone else. I want to be paid for what my work is worth. Individual Reparation Accounts is a cute slogan but a really terrible idea. Collective guilt cannot be assuaged by individual actions. Money doesn't fix it. There is no price tag on the racial injustice my family has suffered. Giving money to black charities or paying a black person extra in no way compensates or mitigates the history of anti-black racism or white privilege. I just want to be treated like an individual. The idea that I should be paid double because I am a descendant of a slave is repugnant to me and an insult to my ancestors who were enslaved or suffered thru Jim Crow.
52
I usually agree with Prof. Dyson, & is one of the most prophetic & intelligent minds in America. But on this issue, I must disagree. Racism, slavery, bigotry, are horrific & must be condemned & exposed so as to not repeat them again. But like Aiffirmative Action, giving one group special treatment over another, is simple not wrong. Yes, slavery was wrong. But it must be viewed from within the context of the times. It was wrong then, but accepted by half the country. People were ignorant then, but half didn't think anything was wrong with what they were doing. The treatment of homosexuals, albeit not in the vein of being owned by another individual, is just as deplorable. Those who were gay were killed, denied, lost jobs and the ability to support themselves. Would Prof. Dyson argue that this group also be provided with reparations as well? And if so, by whom? African Americans played a critical role in building this country and have continued to society on every level including but not limited to music, art, and culture. The gay community has equally contributed. Being gay in the 18th & 19th centuries was dangerous. If you were outed the likely outcome was death. Up until just a few decades ago, this was all too true. In reality, it has only been within the last 15 years or so that America has come around and accepted the gay community. Reparations will not heal any wounds. But I'm afraid it will only excasperate the problem it is trying to solve.
8
I hope Mr. Dyson follows up this book with one directed at African-Americans stating that it is time to make your own destiny.
If someone is harmed by an action done to them today, then he / she has a right to a fair hearing. If someone waits for someone to compensate them for wrongs in the past, justified as they may be in their claims, they will never change their lot in life.
Americans of all races have thrived in the generations after their forebears arrived, no matter how they arrived. It is time for the African-American community and especially their leaders such as Mr. Tyson to embrace whatever opportunities, equal or not, and make some headway.
If someone is harmed by an action done to them today, then he / she has a right to a fair hearing. If someone waits for someone to compensate them for wrongs in the past, justified as they may be in their claims, they will never change their lot in life.
Americans of all races have thrived in the generations after their forebears arrived, no matter how they arrived. It is time for the African-American community and especially their leaders such as Mr. Tyson to embrace whatever opportunities, equal or not, and make some headway.
13
Let reparation take the form of justice, in hiring, in wages, in working conditions, in social relations, in law enforcement, in the courts, and in all the other aspects of life in which white people come into relation with black people. This will require of white people that they try to imagine what it would be like to face the gratuitous obstacles that they have placed in the way of black people and other minorities. No one can never fully appreciate what it's like to stand in other person's shoes; but the effort is honorable, and it's a necessary first step toward the achievement of justice.
4
Unfortunately, for all his talents, Dyson is emblematic of the reasons that encourage many whites to reject African American advocacy. Sweeping indictments of all whites per Dyson, a few other academics and much of Black Lives matter simply tend to polarize things further and perversely excuse racism where it exists. They are often incomprehensible in areas of middle America with extremely small AA populations. Further, they are offensive to the sizeable fraction of the white population that arrived within memory of current generations as despised and impoverished minorities that remember their origins all too well. This includes many Italian-Americans and Jews. It also includes many Asians and some Hispanics. Altogether it's a bad strategy if the goal is to get to equity for all.
38
I believe Mr. Dyson is simply suggesting that, should you feel that African-Americans have been treated unfairly, then perhaps you should consider contributing in your own way to reparations.
Many different ethnic groups have been treated horribly in this country, as has a whole gender, and many still are, but if you think the "impoverished minorities" to whom you refer suffered in a way that even comes close to the hundreds of years of slavery endured by African-Americans (not to mention the 100+ years that followed in a similar vein), then I would respectfully suggest that you learn your history. You could start with Eric Foner's book, "Reconstruction." And you could probably stop there, too.
Many different ethnic groups have been treated horribly in this country, as has a whole gender, and many still are, but if you think the "impoverished minorities" to whom you refer suffered in a way that even comes close to the hundreds of years of slavery endured by African-Americans (not to mention the 100+ years that followed in a similar vein), then I would respectfully suggest that you learn your history. You could start with Eric Foner's book, "Reconstruction." And you could probably stop there, too.
I wish he had said "I envision the audience to be that ocean of "Americans". What can I do as an American not just a White person? This cannot just be a what a white person can do but what we Americans can do.
2
Can anyone tell me how one is classified to belong to one race
versus another ?
It has been 150 years since the Civil War.
It has been 50 years since the major Civil Rights Acts.
About 35 % of Americans were alive in 1965.
About 20 % were of voting age.
About 15 % were what the NY Times calles "White".
So we are talking about 15 % of the population, who could be considered
responsible in any way for institutionalised "Racism".
Of course most of them made no laws, had no particular bigotry toward
African Americans, and of that 15 %, some 60 % were lower Middle Class
or less in Income.
They hardly profited by the Slave Trade or Jim Crow.
So in the end we are talking about 3 % who made the laws, made sure
the laws were enforced and profited off all the poor.
Confiscate 95 % of their wealth and redistribute it to the Poor of this country
without regard to the tincture of their skins.
Oh for the day when the New York Times stops referring to people
by the colour of their flesh.
versus another ?
It has been 150 years since the Civil War.
It has been 50 years since the major Civil Rights Acts.
About 35 % of Americans were alive in 1965.
About 20 % were of voting age.
About 15 % were what the NY Times calles "White".
So we are talking about 15 % of the population, who could be considered
responsible in any way for institutionalised "Racism".
Of course most of them made no laws, had no particular bigotry toward
African Americans, and of that 15 %, some 60 % were lower Middle Class
or less in Income.
They hardly profited by the Slave Trade or Jim Crow.
So in the end we are talking about 3 % who made the laws, made sure
the laws were enforced and profited off all the poor.
Confiscate 95 % of their wealth and redistribute it to the Poor of this country
without regard to the tincture of their skins.
Oh for the day when the New York Times stops referring to people
by the colour of their flesh.
17
Dyson's story about a drunk white guy berating a cop lies somewhere between exaggeration and complete fabrication; and I'm calling him out on it...
27
Interesting, but I can't help wonder if we need to await another complete, after-the-fact overhaul of this piece as we did in June when Dyson and The NY Times shamefully colluded in their historic revision of the written record.
http://publiceditor.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/michael-eric-dyson-liz-...
http://publiceditor.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/michael-eric-dyson-liz-...
5
Reparations are unjust and impossible to do in anything resembling a just manner.
1- Most "white people" living in America are descendants of migrants who arrived after slavery was abolished. For example, How is someone who is descendant from Sicilian migrants of the 20th Century responsible for something that happened before their family arrived?
2- Not one person living is even the great grandchild of anyone who was a slave and not all African-Americans are descendants of slaves. President Obama, for example, is from an interracial couple where the father was from Kenya.
What happened under Slavery was a horrible and despicable thing, but was legal at the time it happened under the US Constitution and lesser law. In Colonial Times it was also legal under the laws of that time. How can anyone justify reparations for something that was legal at the time where neither the slave holders not the slaves are living?
The best thing that can be done is to rededicate ourselves as Americans to an equal and just society for all and that allows the economic and social mobility for each person to rise as far as their talents, ambition and effort will take them. That would be the greatest possible monument and outcome that could result from that period of American history.
The Church and Christian faith is a deeply entrenched anchor among most African-Americans and the central principles of that faith are grace, mercy and forgiveness. It is well past time to move on.
1- Most "white people" living in America are descendants of migrants who arrived after slavery was abolished. For example, How is someone who is descendant from Sicilian migrants of the 20th Century responsible for something that happened before their family arrived?
2- Not one person living is even the great grandchild of anyone who was a slave and not all African-Americans are descendants of slaves. President Obama, for example, is from an interracial couple where the father was from Kenya.
What happened under Slavery was a horrible and despicable thing, but was legal at the time it happened under the US Constitution and lesser law. In Colonial Times it was also legal under the laws of that time. How can anyone justify reparations for something that was legal at the time where neither the slave holders not the slaves are living?
The best thing that can be done is to rededicate ourselves as Americans to an equal and just society for all and that allows the economic and social mobility for each person to rise as far as their talents, ambition and effort will take them. That would be the greatest possible monument and outcome that could result from that period of American history.
The Church and Christian faith is a deeply entrenched anchor among most African-Americans and the central principles of that faith are grace, mercy and forgiveness. It is well past time to move on.
15
It's not about being "responsible" for something that happened before your family arrived. It's about the reverberating effects, in American Culture, of the legacy of slavery, and the 100-plus years of laws that followed its legal end. It is about addressing the effects of something that has never adequately been addressed, the ramifications of which still fester just beneath the skin of American society. It's about white people -- be they the descendants of slave-owners or not, and more than any other race -- having the upper hand due to the legacy of slavery.
Wishing away might feel idealistic and good, but the past has a nasty way of catching up. Or not going away in the first place.
Wishing away might feel idealistic and good, but the past has a nasty way of catching up. Or not going away in the first place.
1
I had the honor of taking a course with Dr. Dyson during his brief tenure at DePaul University in 2000. The class not only shifted my perspectives but also challenged my notions on what my roles and responsibilities are. I was an arts major at the time, planning to change the world one performance at a time.
That can be valuable. But it was during Dr. Dyson's lectures that I decided I wanted to work more directly in helping to solve problems. Today, I'm a nurse in Alaska working to improve public health for newborns and families across this enormous, complicated, beautiful state, doing what I can to reduce the harm caused by the conquest of Alaska Native peoples' lands and resources and the destruction of their cultures and languages. Thanks, Dr. Dyson, for the inspiration and the push in this direction.
That can be valuable. But it was during Dr. Dyson's lectures that I decided I wanted to work more directly in helping to solve problems. Today, I'm a nurse in Alaska working to improve public health for newborns and families across this enormous, complicated, beautiful state, doing what I can to reduce the harm caused by the conquest of Alaska Native peoples' lands and resources and the destruction of their cultures and languages. Thanks, Dr. Dyson, for the inspiration and the push in this direction.
5
Our whole system is corrupt and mean and African and native Americans have been the worst hit by our unjust gunslinger based American society. We're a culture awash in pornographic violence and guns. We white people should not sugarcoat what happens in our land of the free and home of the brave and avert our gaze from neo-apartheid sponsored poor urban wastelands that we've allowed to fester for decades. What? We got time to say Russians stole the election from Hill when tens of thousands of our countrymen die violently each year and we jail and criminalize more of our people than Russia and China and Korea do theirs combined? We should recognize what happened in Charleston and happened to Walter Scott, Tamir Rice, John Crawford, Trayvon Martin etc. ad nauseum and what happens in Chicago and Baltimore and New Orleans and the Bronx Los Angeled etc. at the hands of civilians and authorities alike for what they are- gross American human rights violations caused by economic and social disparity and outright racism and other spiritual pathology. Since the stats prove we Americans can't be trusted with our guns around each other we should embrace disarmament then we might embrace each other, finally. Black and white and brown and all else can all be beautiful together without the media and cultural propaganda fed to us 24/7 by the gaslighters who run Washington, Wall St, and the media. Vote the bums out and don't buy their garbage.
2
The now popular, collective grievance against white people ("white privilege") is just the other side of the coin of stereotyping black people. When one group vilifies (or condescends) to another it often means it is projecting some kind of invulnerability to that group, unable, in this case, to see the full humanity of "The Other"-- their own clashes with injustice. pain, tragedy. ( Most people pay dearly, in some way, to live out life on this earth)
Obviously, there is no comparison between the black experience in America and the white one. But we all need, still, to guard against self-righteousness and sanctimony. For blacks (or whites) to keep branding whites with the word "privilege" is not just short-sighted but a scurrilous assumption about an entire group of people, many of whom do not fall into that category.
Wasn't there a famous quote from Dr. King about skin color and character, his exhortation a call for respect for all, especially each person's individuality, "privileged" or not?
Obviously, there is no comparison between the black experience in America and the white one. But we all need, still, to guard against self-righteousness and sanctimony. For blacks (or whites) to keep branding whites with the word "privilege" is not just short-sighted but a scurrilous assumption about an entire group of people, many of whom do not fall into that category.
Wasn't there a famous quote from Dr. King about skin color and character, his exhortation a call for respect for all, especially each person's individuality, "privileged" or not?
15
As a former New York high school principal, I have a first-hand look at how minorities are treated. I worked for ten years as the principal in a large Queen’s high school. I retired in 2011. Over the past few years I have worked as a consultant and data analysis at three other Queens high schools which ironically are housed in the same type president building where I was principal, all were built in the early 30s.
In my current consultant job, I work in a building that has been broken down into 4 small schools. Almost 100% of the students are of minority status. What I also observe is that because of the school's reputation, the school's administration has trouble finding staff, let alone, qualified staff.
I find the school to be both well run, well maintained and very safe. In two of the other buildings I worked in over the past few years, I found just the opposite. The longer I work in the schools of NYC, the more I see the inequities that our children are faced with. People see black and they think danger.
The school I presently work in is in an African-American neighborhood. The area surrounding the school is well maintained. When I walk from my car to the school building, I am always encountered with people who say Good Morning. This may sound sophomoric but that isn't always the case elsewhere in NYC. The people and the students are polite and friendly.
It is time for all us to awaken to the fact that all people are not treated equally.
In my current consultant job, I work in a building that has been broken down into 4 small schools. Almost 100% of the students are of minority status. What I also observe is that because of the school's reputation, the school's administration has trouble finding staff, let alone, qualified staff.
I find the school to be both well run, well maintained and very safe. In two of the other buildings I worked in over the past few years, I found just the opposite. The longer I work in the schools of NYC, the more I see the inequities that our children are faced with. People see black and they think danger.
The school I presently work in is in an African-American neighborhood. The area surrounding the school is well maintained. When I walk from my car to the school building, I am always encountered with people who say Good Morning. This may sound sophomoric but that isn't always the case elsewhere in NYC. The people and the students are polite and friendly.
It is time for all us to awaken to the fact that all people are not treated equally.
7
Is this something of a scam? Maybe a Republican provocation? I mean who would take it seriously? Dyson must be laughing at the white " useful idiots ".
7
Black people undeniably have had it the worst in the US along with American Indians. The effects of slavery and Jim Crow, etc. reverberate still today. But lots of groups in the US were persecuted or fled persecution elsewhere. We have our scars too. Why should we then have to pay African Americans? Half of my family is from another country and some of them survived genocide and later war, the rest died. And the other half was only here a couple of generations and surely faced their own problems. Why should we owe anything to anyone?
13
Neoliberal anti-racist analysis like this, that the Times' ivy league staff continues to push are a big reason why Trump won. Please stop.
47
Almost all people who identify as Republican voted for Trump. If you voted for Romney, McCain, and Bush, you voted for Trump. A small percentage of people, clustered into a few areas, who voted for Obama decided to vote for Trump. The evidence is abundantly clear that this small group voted for Trump because Trump promised them that he would prevent jobs from leaving America and would even return jobs to America. Trump winning the election had nothing to do with articles like this being run the New York Times.
2
If you look for racism you will always find it. If you need an excuse for your failure, blame White racism.
How will this help you?
When will it end?
"We must learn to live together as brothers, or perish together as fools."
MLK
How will this help you?
When will it end?
"We must learn to live together as brothers, or perish together as fools."
MLK
14
MED is a loudmouth entitled elite and one of the last people I'd imagine who merits reparations. Anyway, what "white people" is he really trying to reach out to? If the tables were turned and a prominent white intellectual were saying all "black people" should do such-and-such for the good of race relations, could you imagine the outcry? Now, I happen to agree that reparations are merited in some instances and that we have a serious problem with hyper-militarized, racist police departments, etc. but this guy is absolutely the wrong messenger.
11
Dear NYT,
Please try to be more open to the conservative thinkers of this country. You said after the election that you were going to try, remember?
Please stop addressing the 'white people' as if the entity exists, as if we are all one homogeneous thing. Or is 'white people' simply a coded word to imply 'people who voted for Trump'?
'Individual reparations' = stupidest swindle I ever heard, although it just might work with guilty NYT white readers.
Please try to be more open to the conservative thinkers of this country. You said after the election that you were going to try, remember?
Please stop addressing the 'white people' as if the entity exists, as if we are all one homogeneous thing. Or is 'white people' simply a coded word to imply 'people who voted for Trump'?
'Individual reparations' = stupidest swindle I ever heard, although it just might work with guilty NYT white readers.
43
The bill for reparations goes to Africa, where black enslavement for commercial export started
30
No the bill should go to Americas uber wealthy who all benefited from racist American history and who outsourced American jobs the past generation or two leaving their dumb money enslaved constituents blaming Africa Mexico China and Islam for their greedy American corruption and contempt for working and middle class white Americans too. This club includes The Trumps Clintons Bushes etc. and all their wealthy cronies in contempt of the American working classes who they all gaslight.
Blaming Africans for the North and South American slave trade that was fueled by European money guns and inhuman treachery is like blaming Jesus for the treatment he received at the hands of the Romans.
Blaming Africans for the North and South American slave trade that was fueled by European money guns and inhuman treachery is like blaming Jesus for the treatment he received at the hands of the Romans.
If Prof Dyson spent as much time addressing the failings of black culture as he does lambasting white america for our collective guilt - we might actually be in a better place by now.
Have a look at this fascinating debate when the good Professor is cornered and forced to actually state an opinion: "EDDIE GLAUDE: What you’re—what you’re representing as abstract, it’s actually condescending to them."
https://www.democracynow.org/2016/7/28/michael_eric_dyson_vs_eddie_glaude
Have a look at this fascinating debate when the good Professor is cornered and forced to actually state an opinion: "EDDIE GLAUDE: What you’re—what you’re representing as abstract, it’s actually condescending to them."
https://www.democracynow.org/2016/7/28/michael_eric_dyson_vs_eddie_glaude
12
Making up facts.
The majority of police shootings are of whites.
As a percent of the population blacks are over represented in police shootings.
As a percent of murders victims blacks are more overrepresented than in
Police shootings.
As a percent of murderers blacks are more overrepresented than in police shootings.
Odd statistics are used by proponents of lying with statistics.
It is disgusting as it is dishonest.
The majority of police shootings are of whites.
As a percent of the population blacks are over represented in police shootings.
As a percent of murders victims blacks are more overrepresented than in
Police shootings.
As a percent of murderers blacks are more overrepresented than in police shootings.
Odd statistics are used by proponents of lying with statistics.
It is disgusting as it is dishonest.
21
You do not make a single relevant point that is responsive to this article. The majority of police shootings are of whites. (1) "As a percent of the population blacks are over represented in police shootings." If true, not surprising since there are many times more white people than black people in the country.
(2) "As a percent of murders victims blacks are more overrepresented than in
Police shootings." How is this possibly relevant? We the public deputize police and give them the authority to use force against private citizens in our name. We pay their salaries and pensions. We give them a badge; we give them power over us. We create them, in a sense. Thus, we all have a certain amount of responsibility for how they behave. None of the foregoing is applicable to private citizens who are murderers. Thus your comparison is irrelevant. (3) As a percent of murderers blacks are more overrepresented than in police shootings. Again, how is this even remotely relevant?
I note that one issue you did not raise is an issue that would be relevant. Are African-Americans over-represented as victims of unjustified police shootings, improper arrests, improper searches, and groundless stops? Hmmm.
(2) "As a percent of murders victims blacks are more overrepresented than in
Police shootings." How is this possibly relevant? We the public deputize police and give them the authority to use force against private citizens in our name. We pay their salaries and pensions. We give them a badge; we give them power over us. We create them, in a sense. Thus, we all have a certain amount of responsibility for how they behave. None of the foregoing is applicable to private citizens who are murderers. Thus your comparison is irrelevant. (3) As a percent of murderers blacks are more overrepresented than in police shootings. Again, how is this even remotely relevant?
I note that one issue you did not raise is an issue that would be relevant. Are African-Americans over-represented as victims of unjustified police shootings, improper arrests, improper searches, and groundless stops? Hmmm.
Prof. Dyson's words resonate among human rights defenders across the globe. Reparations have become an essential aspect of intern'l human rights law.
The US could benefit from a Truth Commission on slavery, and, if deemed warranted, some form of reparations, even so many years after abolition.
Post-war Germany reconstructed its society based on educating its citizenry about the horrors of its own past. Reparations were ultimately made to survivors of the Holocaust.
Reparations have also been made in Argentina and Chile, belatedly, to victims of those nations' brutal military governments.
We in Colombia passed a Victims Law that will provide reparations to the 8 million victims of our internal armed conflict, recently settled through peace negotiations. It will cost the state hundreds of millions of dollars. The FARC guerrillas, too, in the Final Peace Accord agreed to commit all of their assets towards reparations for the war's victims. This is the only way to achieve national reconciliation and to build a just post-conflict society.
For many in the US, Truth Commissions and reparations are not familiar concepts. Some would confuse such measures as a form of undeserved handouts to an ethnic minority that is generations removed from the ravages of slavery.
But the legacy of slavery endures, and truth and reparations may be the only way to advance the pioneering achievements of the US civil rights movement. Crimes against humanity have no statute of limitations.
The US could benefit from a Truth Commission on slavery, and, if deemed warranted, some form of reparations, even so many years after abolition.
Post-war Germany reconstructed its society based on educating its citizenry about the horrors of its own past. Reparations were ultimately made to survivors of the Holocaust.
Reparations have also been made in Argentina and Chile, belatedly, to victims of those nations' brutal military governments.
We in Colombia passed a Victims Law that will provide reparations to the 8 million victims of our internal armed conflict, recently settled through peace negotiations. It will cost the state hundreds of millions of dollars. The FARC guerrillas, too, in the Final Peace Accord agreed to commit all of their assets towards reparations for the war's victims. This is the only way to achieve national reconciliation and to build a just post-conflict society.
For many in the US, Truth Commissions and reparations are not familiar concepts. Some would confuse such measures as a form of undeserved handouts to an ethnic minority that is generations removed from the ravages of slavery.
But the legacy of slavery endures, and truth and reparations may be the only way to advance the pioneering achievements of the US civil rights movement. Crimes against humanity have no statute of limitations.
20
Michael Eric Dyson's views are many things: bigoted, intolerant, pretentious. illogical. "The truth" they are not.
37
Amen
2
Rev. Dyson:
I am shocked by the actions of some police officers.
I am also shocked by the rush to judgement by leaders of the black community ( see the Michael Brown case)
What is really upsetting is that leaders like you are not willing to really address what is at the core of the problems affecting the black community. Too often, you and others blame racism, lack of opportunity and bias.
What you fail to mention is the 80% teenage pregnancy rate in the black community ( in Baltimore it was 85%). Tell me how a child can thrive when their single parent is 16 years old.
That child is doomed to continue the cycle of poverty, lack of education, and violence.
Why not address that, instead of just blaming racism?
I am shocked by the actions of some police officers.
I am also shocked by the rush to judgement by leaders of the black community ( see the Michael Brown case)
What is really upsetting is that leaders like you are not willing to really address what is at the core of the problems affecting the black community. Too often, you and others blame racism, lack of opportunity and bias.
What you fail to mention is the 80% teenage pregnancy rate in the black community ( in Baltimore it was 85%). Tell me how a child can thrive when their single parent is 16 years old.
That child is doomed to continue the cycle of poverty, lack of education, and violence.
Why not address that, instead of just blaming racism?
29
First, the teenage pregnancy rate among black women is not 80%. I have no idea from where you pulled that figure, but you should consult better sources of information. CDC reports 39 live births per thousand among non-Hispanic black women in 2013. MED probably does not talk about 80% teenage pregnancy rate because he is a scholar who consults reputable sources of information. Second, MED does write and talk about the importance of families to human well being. Third, why not respond to the points MED makes rather than try to deflect the issue?
With all due respect, I believe he is addressing your points. The statistics you list are a result of the legacy of slavery. Or, in other words, they are a result of institutionalized racism.
Perhaps the cycle of poverty continues because there have been no reparations?
Perhaps the cycle of poverty continues because there have been no reparations?
Reparations will never happen, why are we still talking about this?
3
Why? Because people ask him, “What can I do, as a white person?”
I thought he made that quite clear, and in the very first paragraph, too. Maybe you didn't read that far, and just reacted to the headline?
I thought he made that quite clear, and in the very first paragraph, too. Maybe you didn't read that far, and just reacted to the headline?
1
America needs a system of State liability. That 's all.
In the words of Professor Sowell, "Live people are being sacrificed because of what dead people did."
6
The subtitle of the book, "A Sermon to White America" and Dyson's evident focus on "whites" to the exclusion of others itself perpetuates racism and polarization. Since the argument is that African-Americans specifically continue to suffer discrimination, why address the book to whites exclusively? No one other than "whites" and "blacks" exists in this country? Other just don't matter? Or somehow they're exempted from the "original sin racism" charge? Surely, Dyson knows that prejudice against all kinds of groups exists all among all groups. (When I was recently a crime victim, the only friend who asked me if the perpetrator was black is Indian-American; I'm not singling out Indian-Americans -- the point is it could have been anyone. And it is not only uni-directional.) i can't help thinking, sorry to say, the "sermon to white people" aspect is promotional on Dyson's part -- it's trendy, and he wants to ride the trend.
9
I believe it was only white people (Caucasian if you like) who were slave owners in the USA. Not many Native people, Asians, Mexicans were profiting from the practice. It was white people. And I have heard of very little discriminatory practice, unfairness or outright brutality coming from those groups toward black people. So no, this really was and is a black/white thing. And reparations should be paid at every opportunity as the article suggests.
(signed, a white person)
(signed, a white person)
3
The more I hear from Dyson the less I like him. He never picked a bale of cotton and no white person alive was a slave owner. I guess the fact that more white people are killed by police than blacks would just be racist to point out...
15
I deeply admire MEDyson. I've read several of his books, listened to sermons and lectures. I also believe justice will not happen in any parts of Africa or its Diaspora until we reconcile the issue of reparations. I may need to read this book, but based on this article, I continue to think that Randall RobInson's reparations prescription in THE DEBT is fair and comprehensive. Briefly, he states that the 246 years of enslavement, 100 years of Jim Crow serve as the starting point of repairing all of the damages done to Africa and its Diaspora. Maybe I need more of what an IRA looks like. Is it a year, ten years, fifty years? What does it take to compensate for all the damages (plural) done to African and African descended peoples?
6
I paid a black housekeeper a great deal more than the going rate, not because she was black, but because the going rate seemed unfair to me. I'd have done the same if she was not black.
It seems patronizing to me to overpay someone out of guilt or pity, but eminently reasonable and fair to make an independent assessment of what a job is worth and pay more if you don't agree with the usual salary for the job. And in fact, that is often the case with service jobs, and that may well be because of discrimination based on which groups most often work in that job. The salary should be appropriate to the work though.
It seems patronizing to me to overpay someone out of guilt or pity, but eminently reasonable and fair to make an independent assessment of what a job is worth and pay more if you don't agree with the usual salary for the job. And in fact, that is often the case with service jobs, and that may well be because of discrimination based on which groups most often work in that job. The salary should be appropriate to the work though.
7
Damages and restitution are a well-established remedy for people who have suffered a harm. You are conflating, incoherently, restitution and remuneration. According to your analysis, if I drove my car through your yard and tore up your lawn and garden, you would happily agree to generate the funds to repair your yard by working for me and letting me pay you what I deemed appropriate? Your proposal is ludicrous.
I agree with reparations, and Im white. My thought thougj is not to just hand people money. It has to be meaningful and ensure change. Im thinking free college or training for any black person that wants it. Im also thinking that we need to give free housing in economically dynamic places. Not projects, like an actual house for each family.
Part of the reason I agree with reparations is selfish. I want to be able to achieve things in my life without having to chaulk anything up to white priviledge. I want to live in a country where racial harmony means that blacks are not only equal, but feel compensated for the misery we caused them for hundreds of years. I think a house and college is the least we could provide for 400 years of slavery and 100 years of oppression after that.
The best part is that education and housing will probably solve a lot of the problems the black community struggles with, and that conservatives always mention to cop out on responsibility (i.e. gang violence). This will allow all whites and blacks to be able to start anew, and maybe America can indeed one day become post-racial.
Part of the reason I agree with reparations is selfish. I want to be able to achieve things in my life without having to chaulk anything up to white priviledge. I want to live in a country where racial harmony means that blacks are not only equal, but feel compensated for the misery we caused them for hundreds of years. I think a house and college is the least we could provide for 400 years of slavery and 100 years of oppression after that.
The best part is that education and housing will probably solve a lot of the problems the black community struggles with, and that conservatives always mention to cop out on responsibility (i.e. gang violence). This will allow all whites and blacks to be able to start anew, and maybe America can indeed one day become post-racial.
5
I'd also add a change to the penal code and unjust sentencing. Shorter prison terms, good skills training, and help to re-join civil society for all black people (well all people too) so abusively incarcerated after discriminatory arrests and sentencing.This would be a great boon to struggling families if more of their men came home.
I take your point, but if you believe a person is owed damages and restitution, in what other context do we withhold payment because we are not sure the person is ready for the money? We do that when we are dealing with children. If African-Americans deserve restitution, they should be paid they same way every other competent victim is paid: in cash unless they choose to be paid in kind.
Ms. Cox's last question and Dr. Dyson's response make me wonder what the marching band from historically black Tuskegee University is getting from the incoming administration to play at the inauguration. High school bands from the D.C. area turned the offer down flat. Good for them. Unless the tune is "Taps," why play for a man whose racist birther lie launched his foray into national politics? One hopes that whatever Tuskegee gets does not prove to be noxious.
5
It might be easier to be sympathetic if guys like this would stop lecturing me all the time. Let him write all the books he wants, though, if it makes him happy.
5
Perfect idea for guilt ridden white liberals: sell everything you have and give to blacks. If you can't sell everything, at least sell and give away half so you can look down your nose at whites who refuse to be shaken down.
And if you don't sell anything, yet keep up with all your leftist NY Times comments attacking whites, then maybe you'll understand when others call you a big hypocrite.
And if you don't sell anything, yet keep up with all your leftist NY Times comments attacking whites, then maybe you'll understand when others call you a big hypocrite.
8
I submit we employ DNA testing to find out a claimant's "slave percentage?" 100% slave ancestry would be entitled to a "full claim." Dilution by "non-slave races" would reduce claim by proportional amount. Tracing to "slave owners" would greatly decrease a claim. But "white abolitionist" DNA would not decrease the claim. Sound workable?
1
Perhaps you're joking. Just in case you're not, permit me to note that "dilution by non-slave races" historically occurred as the result of white "owners" raping black women. Please reflect on that.
4
Let me explain, a descendant of a rapist is making money when her ancestor was the most guilty, not the post civil war arrivals.
See how biological descent works?
See how biological descent works?
2
Your comment shows a profound ignorance of history as well as unbelievable crassness. But as evidenced by our incoming "leadership", apparently these traits are in vogue these days.
1
"But I ain't turning $25 Million down."...there it is in a sentence
8
Africans were brought to the Americas against their wills and enslaved here. They were stripped of their cultures, prevented from forming stable families and communities, robbed of the the fruits of their labor, and prohibited from learning how to read or write. With the exception of the people indigenous to America, no other group of people have been subjected to such a socially destructive process. And because their descendants are easily visually identifiable, this treatment continued for multiple generations. The capital extracted from slaves is part of the foundation of the industrial economy of the United States. Dedicated conservatives would never condone making off with the fruits of other people's labor, do they?
The only moral and practical means of addressing this isn't "reparations," but with policies that insure everyone can get good medical care, education, housing and food.
The only moral and practical means of addressing this isn't "reparations," but with policies that insure everyone can get good medical care, education, housing and food.
1
By his own words he is preaching, literally, to the converted.
How is the cause advanced? The message can appeal to people who don't already support everything he's saying.
Police brutality disproportionately targets blacks, but not as much as many expect based on the media coverage. The NYT presented stats on the issue. the takeaway was that blacks got stopped more often police violence, and particularly killings, were not as far apart as the difference in outrage and coverage would lead one to believe.
The police think the are above the law and brutalize people of all colors. It's them versus everyone else.
The media usually shrugs when it's a white person. A few cases last year got airtime: I recall one where parents called the police to help their emotionally disturbed adult son and they tasered him to death in a car. Another one in which a white unarmed teenager was shot while trying to escape in a car.
Regardless of color, the victim typically is poor, and lives in a poor neighborhood. The BLS movement, instead of capitalizing on these instances to try to end police brutality with the support of normally red-state poor whites who are often the victims of police brutality, the movement clung instead to the statistical sliver showing that it's an even bigger problem for blacks. Why not broaden the support to match the reality of the problem? And reparations? Please. How is that doing anything other than promoting divisiveness?
How is the cause advanced? The message can appeal to people who don't already support everything he's saying.
Police brutality disproportionately targets blacks, but not as much as many expect based on the media coverage. The NYT presented stats on the issue. the takeaway was that blacks got stopped more often police violence, and particularly killings, were not as far apart as the difference in outrage and coverage would lead one to believe.
The police think the are above the law and brutalize people of all colors. It's them versus everyone else.
The media usually shrugs when it's a white person. A few cases last year got airtime: I recall one where parents called the police to help their emotionally disturbed adult son and they tasered him to death in a car. Another one in which a white unarmed teenager was shot while trying to escape in a car.
Regardless of color, the victim typically is poor, and lives in a poor neighborhood. The BLS movement, instead of capitalizing on these instances to try to end police brutality with the support of normally red-state poor whites who are often the victims of police brutality, the movement clung instead to the statistical sliver showing that it's an even bigger problem for blacks. Why not broaden the support to match the reality of the problem? And reparations? Please. How is that doing anything other than promoting divisiveness?
3
elton john? ok....
1
Actually if Americans wanted to be fair they'd allow no white students into their institutions of higher learning for the next 50 years. No white basketball coaches. Just to make things equal and fair. White people couldn't vote for 50 years. That would make things fair. So, in the end, we've got a long way to go to make things fair, to level the playing field (as Americans like to say) so to speak.
1
Rev. Dr. Michael Eric Dyson, I must thank you for your tremendous work and effort in waking white people up about race. I find this to be challenging and difficult work even here in the San Francisco Bay Area. That said the lack of empathy is at time astounding as even some well educated white people express this lack. I consider myself fortunate to be associated with white people who seem to be conscious and awakened to the inequities, the racist tendencies of American society. They seemingly cringe when they hear their white sisters and brothers speak despairingly of anyone who is not white. Frankly, I find this to be rare as many white people fell for the racist rhetoric of Mr. Trump. Indeed it makes me angry for the man who led the birther movement to be the successor to President Barack Obama, talk about disrespect. Frankly, I'm pissed. There is a whole lot of white people who are racist out there but since its not the fashionable things to say or do unless you live in the old confederacy, the rust belt or states with little to no diversity, people may lie about their real thoughts or feelings about the subject. It's like they have there own personal Jim crow which they can chew on for racial comfort amidst their resentment of the President and a changing society. Finally, the election of a man who is impoverished in matters of social justice, i.e., empathy, bias, ethics, and honesty, truth telling, etc., does not bode well.
We have much work to do!
We have much work to do!
35
I agree with you 100% Monica, but I want to point out that there is still a large swath of the US where the number of nonwhite people is so low that it is almost nonexistent.
These people live in a white bubble that is very different from the one we commonly see described in the media (e.g. the privileged suburban white boy).
This is a bubble where the only exposure a white person has to nonwhite people is through the lens of television and newspapers. This isn't because the whites cast a blind eye to the blacks living on the other side of town, but because there literally aren't any blacks within a 50 mile radius of town. It has only been since the advent of smartphones and the brave witnesses who post videos of police brutality that some of these white folks have seen uncensored, scary, no-kidding, examples of racially motivated terrorism.
I grew up in central WV in the 80s and I didn't meet a black person until I was 12. I did't fully comprehend the horrible impact of Jim Crow until I was old enough to realize how much of my personal success rests on the foundation provided by my parents, grandparents and the kindness of others.
So I guess my longwinded point is keep posting videos.
These people live in a white bubble that is very different from the one we commonly see described in the media (e.g. the privileged suburban white boy).
This is a bubble where the only exposure a white person has to nonwhite people is through the lens of television and newspapers. This isn't because the whites cast a blind eye to the blacks living on the other side of town, but because there literally aren't any blacks within a 50 mile radius of town. It has only been since the advent of smartphones and the brave witnesses who post videos of police brutality that some of these white folks have seen uncensored, scary, no-kidding, examples of racially motivated terrorism.
I grew up in central WV in the 80s and I didn't meet a black person until I was 12. I did't fully comprehend the horrible impact of Jim Crow until I was old enough to realize how much of my personal success rests on the foundation provided by my parents, grandparents and the kindness of others.
So I guess my longwinded point is keep posting videos.
2
The "lack of empathy" you mentioned is interesting. As a profoundly disabled person, I can testify to the "lack of empathy" on the part of otherwise conscientious people. There isn't much "empathy" for persons with disabilities ("PWD") nor are there advocacy groups (e.g., GLAAD, NAACP, or NOW) available for PWD. Never mind that we have the highest poverty rates and the highest unemployment rates. Whenever I hear anyone mention "privilege," I can't help but be reminded that they are privileged compared to virtually everyone else. "Lack of empathy" barely scratches the surface of the problem.
I agree fully with Mr. Dyson's belief in "individual reparations account(s)." My father was denied a promotion from Captain to Major b/c his commanding officer didn't like putting Jews in command situations. Then, of course, are the exclusionary quotas for Asians and Jews at various universities (read Karabel's The Chosen), businesses, and country clubs. And the economic devastations of the Chinese Exclusion Acts and the Japanese Internment Laws should be made good by reparations. And let's not forget women, who for years couldn't vote, own property, sign financial papers, or even have credit cards. GLBT's taunted and harassed? GI's killed in action demonized by the Westboro Baptist Church? Left-handers having that hand tied behind their back? Probably be easier to demand that a person prove he does not belong to a vilified group.
86
All of the minority groups you mentioned do not use past atrocities as an excuse for failure today. Why do blacks blame something that ended 150 years ago for failures today?
4
And let's not forget the racist immigration quotas that the nation had in place to prevent or severely restrict Italians, Greeks, Portuguese, and other southern and eastern Europeans, not to mention all of the systemic and incidental racism that they endured. You can go on forever. When one wants to suffer, one will suffer.
Still, you cannot deny America's two great sins: brutality against the native American (who is pretty much absent at this point in the conversation about race, unless in the form of Hispanic) and those brought from Africa as slaves. No group, no law, no nothing has come close to that and everything else is a notch down on the yardstick of injustices. For this reason, Mr. Dyson should not just be speaking to "white" people but also to Hispanics (like myself, many of whom are white anyway), Asians, and everyone else who came here within the last couple of generations and pretty much made it. Those are the people whose ears the message needs to enter, not dopey white liberals or the old WASP grandmother about to croak. Come on, preach a real sermon.
Still, you cannot deny America's two great sins: brutality against the native American (who is pretty much absent at this point in the conversation about race, unless in the form of Hispanic) and those brought from Africa as slaves. No group, no law, no nothing has come close to that and everything else is a notch down on the yardstick of injustices. For this reason, Mr. Dyson should not just be speaking to "white" people but also to Hispanics (like myself, many of whom are white anyway), Asians, and everyone else who came here within the last couple of generations and pretty much made it. Those are the people whose ears the message needs to enter, not dopey white liberals or the old WASP grandmother about to croak. Come on, preach a real sermon.
1
Wow! That's a lot racism, sexism, etc. So tell us, what proportion of your total net worth will you transfer to blacks this year? Or do you get a pass because you're so enlightened?
2
Why did the interviewer stop at beginning a question "I agree with reparations, but maybe this is my white privilege speaking", and not proceed to fully prostrate herself before her interviewee and kiss the soles of his feet while weeping and chanting "I'm not racist!"?
118
Please calm down. Don't be so angry because others think or believe differently.
2
Three-hundred (300) years of uncompensated labor denied to enslaved Africans in America, followed by one-hundred (100) years of Jim Crow semi-slavery—“Slavery by Another Name”— created enormous white institutional and white individual wealth that continues to perpetuate itself today. Wealth owed and denied to Black people that did go towards building black institutional and black individual wealth.
Just as labor robbed from enslaved Africans in America created wealth that was passed on from generations to generations to white institutions and white families, racial oppression in the past created the huge black underclass, as the accumulation of disadvantages were passed on from generation to generation.
As the iconic and courageous James Baldwin wrote, “…to create the country called America, a great many crimes were committed.”
Just as labor robbed from enslaved Africans in America created wealth that was passed on from generations to generations to white institutions and white families, racial oppression in the past created the huge black underclass, as the accumulation of disadvantages were passed on from generation to generation.
As the iconic and courageous James Baldwin wrote, “…to create the country called America, a great many crimes were committed.”
77
I didn't live here. I have no connection to slavery or white privilege. ask someone who didn't move here recently from outside the US. I am not paying a penny. we didn't even allow slavery in my country for many years before the US had it.
7
Affirmative Action is a form of reparation.
Ironically, black men were given the right to vote before women, so why don't we give reparations to women of all races for this historical injustice?
Ironically, black men were given the right to vote before women, so why don't we give reparations to women of all races for this historical injustice?
5
As the iconic and courageous James Baldwin wrote, “…to create the country called America, a great many crimes were committed.”
Blah, blah, blah. Study a little "World History ". This has been S.O.P. since the beginning of human civilization.
Blah, blah, blah. Study a little "World History ". This has been S.O.P. since the beginning of human civilization.
3
Could be "woke", but I'd say "awakened". I guess you consider the Koch brothers racist? Even after a big gift? Is Thomas Sowell racist?
20
No, Thomas Sowell is not a racist but he is in the same category as Justice Thomas and Black folk have other names for them.
2