"I can't independently verify her story", "I can't confirm her life story" - but you go ahead and publish these stories in NYT. Can you see a problem here Nick, like maybe you got a credibility shortcoming? Take off the rose colored glasses, put down the latte and try, really try Nick, to understand that there are liars in the world and prison are full of them. What a fool you are!! Do the crime, do the time!
17
“Prison got me sober, but it didn’t get me anywhere.”
Well, sobriety is a good start but where exactly did you expect prison to "get" you?
Well, sobriety is a good start but where exactly did you expect prison to "get" you?
21
Rehabilitation only works for those who want it not for those who need it. My youngest child has been a drug addict since she was thirteen. Our family has tried everything: rehab, tough love, welcoming her into our homes, family therapy. She backed a truck up to my house while my husband and I were at work and stole everything of value. While living with her sister she sold drugs from their apartment, I could add on and on to this list. She has had six children all born addicted. They all went to foster care; her brother adopted one and I adopted another. Both are doing well. She is now 49 and I am 76. She is still using. I am tired and have given up on her putting her in God's hands.
18
In addition to helping these women with drug rehabilitation, there needs to be a way to keep them away from the dangerous men who influence (control?) them. I'm not sure how to do that but so many times I've heard of women cleaning up their lives only to get involved in the whole drug / crime / incarceration cycle when their "man" gets out of jail.
4
The title of the article is a direct quote from one of the women interviewed in the article, (Alisia Hunter, a caucasian) who is not the person standing directly behind the title (Janay Manning, an African American woman).
Since the article does not break down the female incarcerated populations, by race I wonder why the first face you see is a black woman with a quote that seems attributed to her but is not something she said.
It is an otherwise very informative article.
Since the article does not break down the female incarcerated populations, by race I wonder why the first face you see is a black woman with a quote that seems attributed to her but is not something she said.
It is an otherwise very informative article.
7
Kids are not jut in danger if the mom gets jailed. If she is a junkie, they should not be in her care. Invest in better foster care and loosen up adoption procedures. If a woman has a history of repeated addiction or delivers an addicted baby, don't let that woman take that baby home until she shows she can do the job. In Massachusetts last year the junkie mother of a darling toddler dumped her in the trash after the junkie boyfriend killed her. That mom had lost 2 previous children to the state. Why did we ever let her take that third baby home ?
14
Mr. Kristoff,
it is both misleading and dishonest to show the rates of incarceration among women by country without an accompanying chart of the crime rates.
High crime rates tend to correlate (not always though) with high rates of incarceration.
it is both misleading and dishonest to show the rates of incarceration among women by country without an accompanying chart of the crime rates.
High crime rates tend to correlate (not always though) with high rates of incarceration.
8
Mr. Kristoff and his trembling-lipped admirers here fail to realize is that the only people who escape the lives profiled here are the ones who leave everything behind--mom, grandma, Uncle Jeff who mom and grandma didn't protect them from.
The ones who may find it in themselves to forgive but don't go home for Christmas, don't leave forwarding addresses.
The children of people such as those profiled here need the sort of adults who show them that they can free themselves from families that didn't give them what they had the right to receive.
If you fail your children, you are worthless. Perhaps you can find a way to redeem yourself, but you have given up the right to continue to affect your children*s lives. If you actually do love them--not just see them as possessions--you will let them go--you will encourage them to find a road that leads very far away from you.
The ones who may find it in themselves to forgive but don't go home for Christmas, don't leave forwarding addresses.
The children of people such as those profiled here need the sort of adults who show them that they can free themselves from families that didn't give them what they had the right to receive.
If you fail your children, you are worthless. Perhaps you can find a way to redeem yourself, but you have given up the right to continue to affect your children*s lives. If you actually do love them--not just see them as possessions--you will let them go--you will encourage them to find a road that leads very far away from you.
8
Here is another program making positive changes for incarcerated pregnant women: http://www.protectivecustody.org
5
There's a lot of hardened commenters on this one- boy. I always expect a few tough nuggets, but this article really brought out the law and order brigade. However, to all those folks, I would point you back to the graphic depicting the mind-blowing incarceration rate for females in the United States. We are beating human rights paradises like Russia and Rwanda on this one- by a large margin. What do you think that says about the United States? Just think about that for a second or two. Could there be a better way? How is it that our next door neighbor Canada can get by with a rate of incarceration less than one-tenth of our own? It's troubling that we are jailing so many people and not dealing with the real societal issues.
27
Try seeing what it does to your life, Mr. Kristof, to have someone break into your apartment when you are not home, ransack it, and steal your most valuable possessions. A "non-violent" crime. You will not care who influenced them, and you will not care whether they are male or female. You will want to see them punished. Anyone would.
In my lifetime, I have been a crime victim more times than I can count on two hands. I don't live in a doorman building, or can afford private security patrols. Those crimes have been both violent and non-violent. I don't really care whether the criminal is a man or a woman. The vast majority of criminals are never caught. If they do get caught, and are proved to have done the crime, I will sympathy for them...after they've done their jail time.
In my lifetime, I have been a crime victim more times than I can count on two hands. I don't live in a doorman building, or can afford private security patrols. Those crimes have been both violent and non-violent. I don't really care whether the criminal is a man or a woman. The vast majority of criminals are never caught. If they do get caught, and are proved to have done the crime, I will sympathy for them...after they've done their jail time.
24
For all those commenters who take the position the if you do the crime, you do the time, I have one question: what do you suggest we do with these people after they are released? No job or life skills, no chance at a job, no self respect, then (cue the shock and outrage) they commit another crime, more actual victims are created and we are stuck paying high rates for incarceration. I accept your position that these individuals, men and women have, of their own agency, committed crimes. But let's get over the vengeance and figure out how to reduce recidivism. To do otherwise is simply to accept both continued crime and the extraordinary tax bill that comes with incarceration.
17
Prison is for punishment. It is not to get you anywhere. It is not to make you a better person. You have demonstrated that you cannot live by the rules of a civilized society and thus you must be punished. We don't intend to make better person of you while you are in prison. We intend to punish you for your misbehavior. Got it?
10
"Research shows that prison routinely fails at helping women straighten out their lives"
Why is it prisons job to sort out their lives? Isn't that what school is for?
Prison serves two functions, to remove dangerous people from the street who threaten other citizens and as punishment for breaking laws that have been determined by the country they live in. They are receiving punishment for breaking the law. What a surprise that they are sad and don't want to be there. Not.
Don't want to go to prison, don't break the law. Wait thats too simplistic, wait, not its not.
Why is it prisons job to sort out their lives? Isn't that what school is for?
Prison serves two functions, to remove dangerous people from the street who threaten other citizens and as punishment for breaking laws that have been determined by the country they live in. They are receiving punishment for breaking the law. What a surprise that they are sad and don't want to be there. Not.
Don't want to go to prison, don't break the law. Wait thats too simplistic, wait, not its not.
10
About 10 years ago, my daughter researched, visited, and wrote a college paper about women in the women's prison in Chino, California, and found these exact issue to be true about the circumstances of women in prison. She also found that whereas men in prison have visitors, the children of women have no one to bring them to visit and a local Nun named Sister Suzanne Jabro took things into her own hands and started the Chowchilla Family Express using an old bus to take children to see their mothers, and at least at that time also had an organization called Women's Criminal Justice Network. Of course funding was difficult, and the laws kept women in prison long past their sentences served. Most of the women there had either participated in crimes at the behest of the men in their lives, or were defending their children against men attempting to assault them. I have always wondered why this story about women was not exposed through newspapers, and now it is. Keep it up New York Times!
9
One of the legacies of Clinton's presidency. So awful, so misguided. It seems like both political parties have moved toward justice system reform. Let's hope. Need to fix, change, heal.
5
I am so sick of reading about people's lives being ruined by drugs. Not the drugs themselves -- which do have the power to ruin lives if addiction goes untreated -- but our drug laws. A person has an illness and for that we punish them. We take away their future. We are the criminals, if you ask me.
2
Prisoners belong in PRISON! 'Nuff said.
6
I realize this is Op-Ed and not journalism, but come on! An article full of unverified anecdotes adds nothing to the very important debate about the role of the criminal justice system in protecting society and preventing recidivism. How about some real science or actual journalism where you interview multiple people, verify sources, and back it up with empiric data and research? This article is no better than the fake Rolling Stone article which set back the topic of sexual assault 20 years.
14
The top picture of that Afro-American Janay Manning, the sob stories of the poor upbringing of these women, the lack of training while in prison all comes across as if the misery I not their fault. Well, it is. Take responsibility for what you have not reached in life and stop blaming others. I couldn't care less.
12
Here in New York, guidelines are strict and ignores the recommendations by the judge who passes sentence on the female felon. Outside, the only help is "parole," and once that's over, many women do not find programs that will truly help them get to underlying causes of their addiction problems...incest, abandoned by parents and other UGLY reasons to self-medicate. NYS sends everyone up to end of world so women in prison often do not see relatives for months or years. Instead of reporting on what they are doing in other states, how about looking at New York, where state can't wait to throw mentally ill addicts in jails? Go visit Albion and see what women live like in that sh*thole.
4
Everyone is a sad/remorseful/innocent philosopher behind bars. Some of that wisdom would have helped prior to arrest.
Don't want to spend time in prison? Don't commit crimes.
Don't want to spend time in prison? Don't commit crimes.
15
The article seems to say that this woman, her daughter, and society are missing out on her motherly duties. But based on its description of her background she would certainly be a horrible mother. Despite the risks of the system I've got to believe her daughter is much better off without her. Are we not supposed to put criminals in jail?
16
US attitudes and policy towards women and families is the truly destructive force here since the people making policy have "educations" and should be able to understand and problem solve this instead of destroying lives and charging taxpayers $600 a year. The root of incarceration, male and female, is poverty and drugs. Globalization has made it harder than ever to "just get a job." There are not many people with good families and master's degrees going to prison. This is fixable. With a long term approach and will.
Why not create jobs by employing the mental health workers and addiction specialists and make lifting our poor, our dangerous neighborhoods, better - for the kids, to reduce crime and these sad stories? Why is that not a #1 US goal?
Why not create jobs by employing the mental health workers and addiction specialists and make lifting our poor, our dangerous neighborhoods, better - for the kids, to reduce crime and these sad stories? Why is that not a #1 US goal?
8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2cTc7DofrA
Curtis Mayfield, educated fools from uneducated school. This is the best the richest, most exceptional country can do for it's less fortunate?
Curtis Mayfield, educated fools from uneducated school. This is the best the richest, most exceptional country can do for it's less fortunate?
1
Thank you for publicizing this horrible problem and a possible solution. It is obvious that the federal and state governments use prison far too much. I have been a lawyer involved in criminal justice for four decades and have fought for rehab alternatives to the trash bin of prison in many many cases. I have worked with many prosecutors and judges whose primary concern is to not offend their constituencies, and sticking someone in prison, from their perspective, seems to satisfy an ostensibly vindictive public. We desperately need a more educated public. The problem won't be resolved by the personnel on the bench or in the prosecutors' offices.
Prison is useful to separate people from society when they are too dangerous to others to be free, a very small percentage of the people actually sent to prison. For all others it is wasteful and destructive, a mere political solution for people who exercise power in the criminal justice system.
Prison is useful to separate people from society when they are too dangerous to others to be free, a very small percentage of the people actually sent to prison. For all others it is wasteful and destructive, a mere political solution for people who exercise power in the criminal justice system.
10
It is not an accident the incarceration rate for women is increasing.
When men played the sole breadwinner role, it was disruptive to their families when they were incarcerated especially for low level non-violent offenses. Women are now playing the sole breadwinner role, with few stable men in the picture to pick up the pieces, families are again destroyed for several generations. What better way to create a perpetual cycle of citizens who will not have the same rights as the upper class. In this country, there are several ways to control the lower class, this is one of them. Wake up America!
When men played the sole breadwinner role, it was disruptive to their families when they were incarcerated especially for low level non-violent offenses. Women are now playing the sole breadwinner role, with few stable men in the picture to pick up the pieces, families are again destroyed for several generations. What better way to create a perpetual cycle of citizens who will not have the same rights as the upper class. In this country, there are several ways to control the lower class, this is one of them. Wake up America!
8
This article had me in tears by the time I made it to the end--after reading and rereading each paragraph. My regret is that I wanted to pioneer such a rehabilitation program about 50 years ago, but there were so many nay-sayers who felt punishment is a better deterrent to crime.....
Some day, God willing, we will begin to treat our fellow humans as people just like ourselves. If you were hungry and desperate, coerced by criminals under pain of torture or rape (the ultimate insult), how would you survive, lawfully? If you never witnessed family harmony and respect, how would you know the importance of good character?
From the graph indicating incarceration of women by country, I can clearly see we are inhumane savages who have no respect for people with the greatest needs. I am deeply saddened by the statistics.
Some day, God willing, we will begin to treat our fellow humans as people just like ourselves. If you were hungry and desperate, coerced by criminals under pain of torture or rape (the ultimate insult), how would you survive, lawfully? If you never witnessed family harmony and respect, how would you know the importance of good character?
From the graph indicating incarceration of women by country, I can clearly see we are inhumane savages who have no respect for people with the greatest needs. I am deeply saddened by the statistics.
7
I find I am unsympathetic.
Much of this has roots in people conceiving children irresponsibly, and being ALLOWED to. Males ARE left off the hook, regardless how little or much they contribute to the generational problems reported on here: males aren't compelled to get vasectomies or are incarcerated for the neglect and abuse they clearly are responsible for.
People that aren't too concerned about how they or their children will be impacted by their mental illness/addictions, aren't going to make me feel sorry for them.
Breaking the cycle means the kinds of intervention that to some might sound Draconian.
But I don't see how the suffering of children that perpetuate this problem, deserves any less.
The patterns are clear.
Much of this has roots in people conceiving children irresponsibly, and being ALLOWED to. Males ARE left off the hook, regardless how little or much they contribute to the generational problems reported on here: males aren't compelled to get vasectomies or are incarcerated for the neglect and abuse they clearly are responsible for.
People that aren't too concerned about how they or their children will be impacted by their mental illness/addictions, aren't going to make me feel sorry for them.
Breaking the cycle means the kinds of intervention that to some might sound Draconian.
But I don't see how the suffering of children that perpetuate this problem, deserves any less.
The patterns are clear.
9
The insanity of liberal logic.
“Prison got me sober, but it didn’t get me anywhere,” Hunter told me. Prison is for punishment, lady, it ain't no Harvard. What have you given to society to expect it to take care of you?
The article laments the high cost of incarceration and as an 'obvious' solution suggests releasing the inmates. What about the alternative - making our prisons into prisons instead of one-star resorts? While my tax money goes to upkeep those inmates, they enjoy healthcare I can't afford (since ACA).
What about another solution, stopping to incentivize through tax and welfare having babies by those who can't afford them?
"I couldn't stand being in my own skin..."
Cut your skin open, get out, and stop pestering others, ma'am. Your skin and the rest of you are none of my business. I'd much rather see my tax money go to a healthy gifted kid, who may contribute to progress. We have 6+ bln people in the world, a clear oversupply.
“Prison got me sober, but it didn’t get me anywhere,” Hunter told me. Prison is for punishment, lady, it ain't no Harvard. What have you given to society to expect it to take care of you?
The article laments the high cost of incarceration and as an 'obvious' solution suggests releasing the inmates. What about the alternative - making our prisons into prisons instead of one-star resorts? While my tax money goes to upkeep those inmates, they enjoy healthcare I can't afford (since ACA).
What about another solution, stopping to incentivize through tax and welfare having babies by those who can't afford them?
"I couldn't stand being in my own skin..."
Cut your skin open, get out, and stop pestering others, ma'am. Your skin and the rest of you are none of my business. I'd much rather see my tax money go to a healthy gifted kid, who may contribute to progress. We have 6+ bln people in the world, a clear oversupply.
10
I have read the NYT online for years, and I never fail to be amazed at how far ahead Mr. Kristof is to so many other writers and reporters when it comes to addressing issues that are deeply important and affect peoples' lives. Not only in the U.S., but around the world.
It is kind of ironic that Mr. Kristof's articles are put in the "Opinion" section of the NYT. He actually proffers little in the way of opinion, but rather hard-hitting in-depth reporting that is backed up by facts. Thank you Mr. Kristof for once again bringing to light an important social issue, this time the problems of mass incarceration, that are seldom discussed, but needs to be known.
It is kind of ironic that Mr. Kristof's articles are put in the "Opinion" section of the NYT. He actually proffers little in the way of opinion, but rather hard-hitting in-depth reporting that is backed up by facts. Thank you Mr. Kristof for once again bringing to light an important social issue, this time the problems of mass incarceration, that are seldom discussed, but needs to be known.
6
And what of the victims of these criminals?
"Mercy to the wicked is cruelty to the innocent".
"Mercy to the wicked is cruelty to the innocent".
11
Yes, but let's not have gender bias on this subject also. Men prisoners deserve as much empathy as women prisoners.
4
No one is the sum of their pain. When that is realized, recovery is easy.
Just want to thank Nick Kristof for this reporting. May you win the Nobel Peace prize some day!
4
Prison is not supposed to "get you anywhere." It is supposed to punish you, your family, your friends and keep you out of society so you cannot inflict any more harm upon it. Prison is working well. Do the crime, do the time. Criminals look in the mirror. It's on you. Period.
14
Mr. Kristof...I'm a long retired Marriage and Family Therapist (50 years) and
Lutheran pastor. Thank You for this great piece and sensitive treatment of
a (usually) unspoken issue and story. I am now, of course, relegated, at 79,
to being mostly an "observer" in this world. However, I still know enough to Care and care enough to Know. I am dong some "supporting" with a local Grade School Social Worker. Your Article prompts me to do More from where I am. Of course, I will share your lucid words with her, as well. My deepest Gratitude for your crucial work.
Lutheran pastor. Thank You for this great piece and sensitive treatment of
a (usually) unspoken issue and story. I am now, of course, relegated, at 79,
to being mostly an "observer" in this world. However, I still know enough to Care and care enough to Know. I am dong some "supporting" with a local Grade School Social Worker. Your Article prompts me to do More from where I am. Of course, I will share your lucid words with her, as well. My deepest Gratitude for your crucial work.
5
If you don't break the law you don't have to worry about imprisonment..
12
How dare this government tear apart families by putting those who break the law in prisons!
8
My heart breaks for these women - it's so very easy for us to say, "They made a choice" or "They broke the law" but very few, if any, of us have lived through their horrendous life situations and we have no right to pass judgment. These are women who were sexually abused from a young age or have serious drug or alcohol problems. They suffer from a hell most of us will never know.
11
I am really surprised by the naivete that is reflected through these comments. That is, I'm surprised that our readers are not concerned that the United States incarcerates more people than most--if not all--countries in the world. Thus, our penal system, which incarcerates a high percentage of minoriities and women, is not working. In other words, this situation is largely a systemic problem--not a personal one.
13
Each of the women mentioned here has an addiction problem, but many also have some sort of mental illness as well. Until our society chooses to treat mental illness, including addiction, with the same zealousness that we treat the common cold, prisons will be a repository for mentally ill men and women, while not offering treatment for them. Many prisons don't even allow their inmates basic medication such as anti-depressants. That's one reason that recidivism is so high. I served on a state human rights council that reviewed such cases. We have a long way to go.
7
75% women interviewed in the article were molested, raped or abused as minors by men. Of them, the article points out, many were forced to commit crimes by men. And it points out, they are then given long sentences because they're too afraid to testify against the men who forced them to.
The second point of the article is that these women are mothers. Perhaps they would not be mothers if men did not also try to control women's reproductive choices.
The second point of the article is that these women are mothers. Perhaps they would not be mothers if men did not also try to control women's reproductive choices.
10
And, as luck would have it, our new president has a history of sexual assault against women and wants to completely remove women's ability to make their own reproductive choices. The situation reported here will only get worse. We are devolving as a society, if not as a species.
9
bad choices have bad consequences, a fact which seems never to be taught by the parents of many children, assuming there are any parents in the house. but being sober is a real good start. now the choice is whether to use that sober brain to learn how to read and write and to behave properly in a social environment. Prison should teach these skills and the prisoners should be receptive. otherwise, the downward cycle will obviously continue. so there are two dancers in ths tango of rehab, not just one.
8
As this story points out and my own experience working with addicts and alcoholics confirms, this is a good start, but these kids didn't stand a chance. They didn't choose to be raped or beaten. Addiction is a true illness and takes many years to get over. The brain adapts to drugs and therefore needs time to get back to as normal a state as is possible for each individual. I hope that Women in Recovery or another group will continue to offer support to these women once they "graduate" from the program. They will need it.
9
There should be drug (and alcohol) treatment combined with prison for anyone who is addicted; any program which can help women get on their feet, work, and actually care for their own children should be multiplied. But experience has taught me not to trust the promises of addicts or efficacy of treatment programs.
Mass incarceration is stupid; But stupider yet is the failure to get to young people to prevent self destructive repetition of family patterns. Focusing on young women - so that they have some resilience, some hope and strength to be able to finish high school, avoid pregnancy, and refuse to use drugs because of peer pressure. Children are in school for years - a natural time to intervene. Some programs do work with teen girls focusing on helping them to examine their own beliefs, and to practice skills to assert their worth in action.
The women you focused on in this article EXPERIENCED the neglect, abuse and general chaos that comes with parental addiction. But they didn't see a lot of successful behavior ( and will not when they return 'home'). With guidance and models, young women can literally practice HOW to respond, say, to a boy who pressures them for sex, or peers who pressure them to forget what they want.
Also, the lack of PREVENTIVE services for children from newborn to late teens, and for parents - including pregnant mothers (or for grandmothers or others to whom their care is entrusted.) - is underfunded. whereas prisons cost us in all ways.
Mass incarceration is stupid; But stupider yet is the failure to get to young people to prevent self destructive repetition of family patterns. Focusing on young women - so that they have some resilience, some hope and strength to be able to finish high school, avoid pregnancy, and refuse to use drugs because of peer pressure. Children are in school for years - a natural time to intervene. Some programs do work with teen girls focusing on helping them to examine their own beliefs, and to practice skills to assert their worth in action.
The women you focused on in this article EXPERIENCED the neglect, abuse and general chaos that comes with parental addiction. But they didn't see a lot of successful behavior ( and will not when they return 'home'). With guidance and models, young women can literally practice HOW to respond, say, to a boy who pressures them for sex, or peers who pressure them to forget what they want.
Also, the lack of PREVENTIVE services for children from newborn to late teens, and for parents - including pregnant mothers (or for grandmothers or others to whom their care is entrusted.) - is underfunded. whereas prisons cost us in all ways.
7
This reminds me of the kid who kills his/her parents and asks for sympathy because he/she is an orphan. We're supposed to feel sorry for these incarcerated mothers? They chose to live their life high on drugs. They chose to steal to support that lifestyle. They were not thinking of their children when they chose to separate themselves in prison from their children. I do feel sympathy for the innocent children who are victims of their parents' (mother's?) criminal behavior, but I also feel these poor children would have a better chance at life if someone else raised them. They would be better off in an orphanage than to be an up-close-personal-witness to parental/maternal criminal self destruction.
13
Did you really read this article? Too many of these incarcerated women (and men, too) were the children of children....generations of chaos, visited by immature "parents" on their children. Many of these children were abused - and you apparently blame them because they became addicted, often to blot out the horror of their lives? Certainly, we do need to intervene....with birth control, and yes, even abortions...not in the sense of forcing them, but in the sense of making both birth control and abortion cheap or free. Yes, we need better education. And maybe we do need orphanages. What we really don't need are attitudes like yours.
7
This is an excellent article. I usually don't comment but after seeing some of the comments to this article I had to. The statements in this article are not just random thoughts. There is a study (CDC-Kaiser Permanente Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACE) Study) showing that children who grow up in homes where there is sexual abuse, addiction and poverty are far more likely to repeat these patterns. Some of these comments make me wonder if we should incarcerate our children??? Those of you who think that a "welfare state" indicates a high standard of living really have no idea about poverty. Finally there is a high proportion of minorities in prison (male and female). So does this suggest that minorities are more corrupt or more likely targeted by the system?
8
I was raised by thoughtful black men and women who endured the Great Depression and Jim Crow without becoming addicts or having criminal records. My father and his brother were extremely poor as children.
I saw where one branch of my family veered off into risk of incarceration and becoming drug addicts, and the branch that didn't.
There is a personality trait called extreme selfishness and immaturity. THAT is the difference.
Add to that, much competition for rehab that's effective or networks to treat mental illness that are, and you get the stew we're discussing.
I'm all for requiring court ordered birth control, for males and females in the higher risk demographics.
Because of precisely what you said: the predictable (therefore preventable), pattern of having children under such conditions that those children are at risk of keeping such problems in perpetuity.
I saw where one branch of my family veered off into risk of incarceration and becoming drug addicts, and the branch that didn't.
There is a personality trait called extreme selfishness and immaturity. THAT is the difference.
Add to that, much competition for rehab that's effective or networks to treat mental illness that are, and you get the stew we're discussing.
I'm all for requiring court ordered birth control, for males and females in the higher risk demographics.
Because of precisely what you said: the predictable (therefore preventable), pattern of having children under such conditions that those children are at risk of keeping such problems in perpetuity.
6
"Prison didn't get me anywhere" seems the oddest thing to say about a long list of unfortunate life choices resulting in incarceration. Wouldn't it make more sense to have intervention way before prison? Our Social Services are failing us if prison is where we are assume life will take on another form. Our religious leaders, our neighbourhood organizers, our police, our education system - they all should be positive influences that prevent landing up in prison. Seems to me we need the modern day equivalent of Settlement Houses to teach basic life skills to our own citizens before we take on more challenges from other countries. We should be investing right here in helping our suffering citizens avoid the downward cycle of drugs and prison.
9
Here in Oregon, much of the increase in women's incarceration rate is due to institutional change. In the mid 1990s, 13 months became the magic sentence by which offenders go to prison. Below that threshold, offenders remain in county custody which means less jail time, more community service, and perhaps drug abuse programming.
Shortly thereafter, identity theft became a crime with a 13 month minimum sentence. In the late 1990s identity theft was low-tech involving mail theft and forged checks often completed by 'theft rings.' Women had the high-risk job of trying to cash the checks. Shortly thereafter the population of women inmates soared and officials were concerned that the new women's prison under construction would not be large enough.
Human behavior being what it is, most newly codified state crimes are low-level, and Oregon's sentencing structure being what it is, they will carry a minimum 13 month sentence. This institutional structure ensures that women will continue to be sent to prison for crimes for which they might otherwise have received probation.
District attorneys will shake their heads in feigned wonder as to why the female incarceration rate is so high now in Oregon. Societal change, greater involvement in crime by women...what they will never mention is that the new crimes and sentencing for which they lobbied so diligently are the root causes.
Oregon is not the only state with a magic sentence-length threshold, and laws like this can be changed.
Shortly thereafter, identity theft became a crime with a 13 month minimum sentence. In the late 1990s identity theft was low-tech involving mail theft and forged checks often completed by 'theft rings.' Women had the high-risk job of trying to cash the checks. Shortly thereafter the population of women inmates soared and officials were concerned that the new women's prison under construction would not be large enough.
Human behavior being what it is, most newly codified state crimes are low-level, and Oregon's sentencing structure being what it is, they will carry a minimum 13 month sentence. This institutional structure ensures that women will continue to be sent to prison for crimes for which they might otherwise have received probation.
District attorneys will shake their heads in feigned wonder as to why the female incarceration rate is so high now in Oregon. Societal change, greater involvement in crime by women...what they will never mention is that the new crimes and sentencing for which they lobbied so diligently are the root causes.
Oregon is not the only state with a magic sentence-length threshold, and laws like this can be changed.
3
As soon as we see the modern catch phrase "mass incarceration" we know the article will make it appear that we are systematically imprisoning poor people who have almost no personal culpability in their crimes and personal circumstances. And we are told that the cost of incarceration is fully wasted when we could be taking that same money and providing these people a wonderful life. And what of their children? Yada, yada, yada . . . . Ultimately, we are told that we must empty the prisons, welcome felons back into society, pay to transform them into model citizens, and most importantly restore their right to vote to elect politicians who will support a broader welfare state.
Our society does not incarcerate people at random. And many of the people in jail have long and well-deserved records as problem children, problem students, problem neighbors, problem employees, problem citizens and ultimately problem inmates. There is, of course, a convoluted cost-benefit argument for a massive societal investment in our criminal population. But for a nation with limited resources that is straining to remain competitive in the global economy, I would much rather invest in our citizens who are doing the right things; not those poisoning their own lives with drugs and criminal behavior.
Our society does not incarcerate people at random. And many of the people in jail have long and well-deserved records as problem children, problem students, problem neighbors, problem employees, problem citizens and ultimately problem inmates. There is, of course, a convoluted cost-benefit argument for a massive societal investment in our criminal population. But for a nation with limited resources that is straining to remain competitive in the global economy, I would much rather invest in our citizens who are doing the right things; not those poisoning their own lives with drugs and criminal behavior.
13
Well, Mr. Perfect, you have to realize that a "felon" isn't like a "cat." A person isn't born a felon, they're made one by law. We have decided that drinking yourself under the table every morning, noon and night isn't a crime, but that smoking marijuana and snorting cocaine are crimes. So, we create felons and we decide whose life should be ruined through incarceration. So, yes...there is a random factor in a lot of the "mass incarceration" that our drug laws have caused. No one is talking about "let's be nice to bank robbers," okay? If you get off your high horse you might be able to see things a little more clearly.
4
I teach as a volunteer the male and female inmates in our county jail. I mention this because I'm one of the people who has actually met and worked with incarcerated men and women.
Thus, I ask this: Why shouldn't society regard felons with a mix of fear and contempt? Should we welcome them into our offices to work alongside of us? Play on our team? Should we ask them to take care of our children? Our pets? Invite them to a barbecue?
How about those who are in my county jail because they not only use drugs, but deal in them? What do we do when, weeping, they say that child services took their children? When they get into fights with their roommates, should we understand that they had good reasons?
And when they are released, and return within a couple of weeks -- as more than one-third of my students have done in the past six months -- should I understand that they have been "stripped of freedom, dignity, privacy?"
Or should I say, "Enough. I'm going to give my time and effort to someone who deserves it."
Thus, I ask this: Why shouldn't society regard felons with a mix of fear and contempt? Should we welcome them into our offices to work alongside of us? Play on our team? Should we ask them to take care of our children? Our pets? Invite them to a barbecue?
How about those who are in my county jail because they not only use drugs, but deal in them? What do we do when, weeping, they say that child services took their children? When they get into fights with their roommates, should we understand that they had good reasons?
And when they are released, and return within a couple of weeks -- as more than one-third of my students have done in the past six months -- should I understand that they have been "stripped of freedom, dignity, privacy?"
Or should I say, "Enough. I'm going to give my time and effort to someone who deserves it."
19
Again -- drug laws ruining people's lives. History will look back on this puritanical time the same way we today look back at the Salem witch trials. Mass hysteria. Mass incarceration. Mass dysfunction.
1
Everyone lies, whether they know it or not. We all make mistakes. To be punished for a mistake for the rest of ones life is wrong. It's nearly impossible to have a decent life after being charged criminally. The sad thing is most crimes are tied into money. High level criminals are untouchable. We go after the weakest of the herd. The first logical step is to legalize all drugs and prostitution.
5
One of the most insidious corruptions of the American perspective occurred when crimes began being identified as "mistakes". This is the natural
born child of the progressive mind.
born child of the progressive mind.
3
If all drugs are legalized, Casey, then we cannot complain about -- or fear -- the guy who's driving the school bus when he's zonked out of his mind. We cannot test the potential teacher of our children for drugs. We cannot be anxious that someone may crash into us while lighting second or third joint.
If all drugs are legalized, what will we do but sit by while idiots blow their minds to oblivion? If all drugs are legalized, how much will it cost us to take care of the idiots who use them?
What are you smoking, Casey?
If all drugs are legalized, what will we do but sit by while idiots blow their minds to oblivion? If all drugs are legalized, how much will it cost us to take care of the idiots who use them?
What are you smoking, Casey?
3
My heart breaks for these women and the children they once were. Since becoming a mother, I can hardly bear to hear stories of children suffering. This article provides such important perspective and an alternative viewpoint to the "tough on crime," "school of hard knocks" that pervades our culture. Thank you.
4
Mumble. I'm open to arguments that treatment, rather than prison, is the appropriate way to handle drug abusers. I'm not convinced, but I'm open to the argument, particularly if there's some good data bolstering it.
But this article rubs me the wrong way. What is so special about women--and mothers--that putting them in prison is supposedly some sort of heinous behavior? Aren't 80%+ of the men in prison fathers? Where's the outrage about MEN and FATHERS in prison?
There's just this underlying theme that women--particularly the maternal ones--are just so innately good and sweet that they would never be incarcerated if they weren't victims.
News flash, Mr. Kristoff: Men are victims, too. And nobody cuts them any slack for it. Because, you know, women are just better people. Especially the mommy ones.
This article perpetrates a certain kind of insidious sexism.
And oh, by the way, I'm a woman.
But this article rubs me the wrong way. What is so special about women--and mothers--that putting them in prison is supposedly some sort of heinous behavior? Aren't 80%+ of the men in prison fathers? Where's the outrage about MEN and FATHERS in prison?
There's just this underlying theme that women--particularly the maternal ones--are just so innately good and sweet that they would never be incarcerated if they weren't victims.
News flash, Mr. Kristoff: Men are victims, too. And nobody cuts them any slack for it. Because, you know, women are just better people. Especially the mommy ones.
This article perpetrates a certain kind of insidious sexism.
And oh, by the way, I'm a woman.
16
Thank you for another moving and enlightening essay, Mr. Kristof. If you haven't already, I encourage you to look at a photo-essay book by Cheryl Hanna-Truscott, a certified nurse-midwife and photographer titled "Protective Custody". The book documents an innovative Residential Parenting Program for pregnant and newly delivered women at the Washington Corrections Center for Women's in Purdy. The women who are eligible for the program must be imprisoned for only low-level, nonviolent offences, such as some featured in your essay, and have relatively short sentences. They live in a special unit within the prison that allows them to keep their babies and toddlers with them. The women are taught parenting and job skills, and the babies get early intervention education.
7
Thank you Mr Kristof, for reporting and your humanity.
8
This is typically sexist nonsense from the New York Times, defining women by their reproductive capacity.
The writer tries to justify his world view and selective compassion by saying that women in prison are a greater tragedy because women disproportionately care for children. Maybe more fathers could care for their children if influential columnists didn't persist in reinforcing the idea that parenting responsibilities are innately female, a perception that helps justify locking up men. And maybe if childless women weren't treated as worthless in our culture, they couldn't be so easily disposed of in prisons, either.
The writer tries to justify his world view and selective compassion by saying that women in prison are a greater tragedy because women disproportionately care for children. Maybe more fathers could care for their children if influential columnists didn't persist in reinforcing the idea that parenting responsibilities are innately female, a perception that helps justify locking up men. And maybe if childless women weren't treated as worthless in our culture, they couldn't be so easily disposed of in prisons, either.
14
"TULSA, Okla. — The women’s wing of the jail here exhales sadness. The inmates, wearing identical orange uniforms, ache as they undergo withdrawal from drugs, as they eye one another suspiciously, and as they while away the days stripped of freedom, dignity, privacy and, most painful of all, their children."
Of course, the men are also "stripped of freedom, dignity, privacy..." - and by god they deserve it! And, of course again - separated from their children? - no biggie.
But the "Moms" ?
Well, you know - that's different.
Of course, the men are also "stripped of freedom, dignity, privacy..." - and by god they deserve it! And, of course again - separated from their children? - no biggie.
But the "Moms" ?
Well, you know - that's different.
8
Men in prison are visited by family because the women in their lives bring children to visit them and visit them themselves. When women are incarcerated, men are statistically very unlikely to come themselves or bring children to visit. This is a fact. Therefore women are more isolated when in prison and their children are subject to the whims of others.
10
If prison got you sober, it assuredly got you somewhere.
10
While I agree with the overall message of this piece - we should be focusing our efforts on rehabilitation rather than punitive punishment - there is no mention here of educational access in prison. Drug addiction is merely only of the many hardships that women (and all incarcerated people) face behind bars. Establishing more recovery and support groups will not necessarily lower recidivism rates or poverty levels. The issue of mass incarceration must be looked at from a holistic, structural and practical level. So if we're going to advocate for more addiction recovery programs, we must push for greater education initiatives and resources as well.
6
Throughout the country, prisoners are offered educational resources -- from high school equivalency classes through job-training programs to college courses. Here in New York State's prisons, the incarcerated are entitled to attend HSE classes until they are 65 years old (or obtain the diploma.)
There are also many volunteers throughout the country who supplement the work paid instructors do by teaching in our jails -- I'm one of them.
What do you do?
There are also many volunteers throughout the country who supplement the work paid instructors do by teaching in our jails -- I'm one of them.
What do you do?
2
one glaring note: it seems the women who were offered an alternative program were white women; while the woman of color languishes behind bars. is this inherent in the program, or were the choices of profiles for the story unconscious?
14
Noticed that too...where's the data on women in the recovery programs? Dig deeper NYT!
Our un-exposed corporate culture helps cause things like this. At home, the corporate prisons round up men and women through a controlled justice system so that they can stay profitable, and abroad our corporations turn regions of countries like Bangladesh into absolute poverty-ridden slums in order to have an available supply of starved workers. If we required corporate doings to be open to the public, we'd go farther in stopping things like what's happening in the article. (Also, requiring arbitration to be open instead of secret, or outlawing forced versions of it altogether, such as with Wells Fargo)
6
So much sadness and inhumanity here. One perhaps small point that vexes me: picture of African American woman leads the story yet no discussion of if she was offered services, training like the other women profiled in the story. Two problems here: continue to associate criminality w color and secondly, are people of color offered the same opportunities (even in prison) as others? I suspect not. The story did nothing to personalize the story of the first person pictured as it did with the other women.
15
According to prison policy.org, Alabama has the 5th highest incarceration rate in the world (and the US is the world leader in incarcerating its citizens by far). I wouldn't count on Alabama's senator Sessions doing much for anyone.
16
Sad, but true.
Maybe just maybe these Mom's should stop doing whatever they're doing. This has nothing to do with who is in office. That is unless you prefer people are allowed to steal from you or break into your home or even make driving unsafe while stoned?
6
https://issuu.com/rachelmarie-cranewilliams/docs/womeninprison
The above links to a comic I made for the Justice Institutes's book Incarceration Generation.
I have worked in prisons that house women for over 20 years as an artist, teacher and researcher. This article does a good job of explaining the difficulty of jail. Prison is even more harsh in some ways because the uncertainty still exists on a daily basis. Often children are very angry about their parent's situation. The health care women receive is underfunded and in some cases is cruel and unusual punishment. There are few places for them to discharge to after prison if they are on parole and the conditions set by the state set them up to fail. Community programs would be much better options for women in many cases and so would intensive therapy to address the trauma they have endured. They also benefit from classes about IPV and power and control in relationships. In some cases they need to desperate from their families and move to new communities where with support they can rebuild their lives. After prison people convicted of felonies often experience a civil death. Jobs, education, even finding a place to rent can be almost impossible. Getting ongoing counseling and drug treatment is also difficult. AA and NA are free, but in most cases they do not work for long-term sobriety. There are models all over the world of ways to treat people who are involved with the criminal justice system with compassion and humanity
The above links to a comic I made for the Justice Institutes's book Incarceration Generation.
I have worked in prisons that house women for over 20 years as an artist, teacher and researcher. This article does a good job of explaining the difficulty of jail. Prison is even more harsh in some ways because the uncertainty still exists on a daily basis. Often children are very angry about their parent's situation. The health care women receive is underfunded and in some cases is cruel and unusual punishment. There are few places for them to discharge to after prison if they are on parole and the conditions set by the state set them up to fail. Community programs would be much better options for women in many cases and so would intensive therapy to address the trauma they have endured. They also benefit from classes about IPV and power and control in relationships. In some cases they need to desperate from their families and move to new communities where with support they can rebuild their lives. After prison people convicted of felonies often experience a civil death. Jobs, education, even finding a place to rent can be almost impossible. Getting ongoing counseling and drug treatment is also difficult. AA and NA are free, but in most cases they do not work for long-term sobriety. There are models all over the world of ways to treat people who are involved with the criminal justice system with compassion and humanity
8
If you read between the lines here, the real issue is our inability to deal with the real root cause: the cycle of abuse. Each of the woman described here started in an environment of abuse at very early ages, much younger ages than they would have been able to extricate themselves. This is the real problem. It gets manifested and acted out in drug and alcohol abuse and criminal behavior. I know it was not the point if the article, but it seems that the sources of abuse in each of these women's stories are known, and I want to know what consequences the abusers faced. My money is on "none." Until we as a society focus our attention on the cycle of abuse, any "treatment" is a bandaid.
25
I am not sure if the point of this article is that people should not be imprisoned for using drugs, with which I agree, or that women who commit crimes should be given a break, which makes no sense, or that we should try to do more with inmates to rehabilitate them, as opposed to just punish them, which is a noble but difficult to implement, idea. I think the concept of "mass incarceration" is a false one. There are laws and people who break them individually, not en masse. American drug enforcement policy has been a misdirected activity since the beginning, ignoring the causes of drug use and addiction, and opening huge profit opportunities for organized crime, as well as an influx of very dangerous substances. While I wholly endorse offering better and more treatment options for addicts, rather than jail, punishing a person who commits robberies or violent crimes because of a bad family background applies equally to females and males. As to private industry employing felons, companies unfortunately have to worry about being sued for endangering other employees and, in these marginal economic times, have to spend human and cash resources on programs which do not optimize profits, so how many are going to do it? Like my comment, there is too much going on in this Op Ed to figure out the true point.
13
Mitchell, I am concerned that you choose to ignore the fact that mass incarceration (MI) is a thing. a REAL thing... At best, it is modern slavery. Perhaps you're not part of the black community so you haven't been affected by it or had no choice but to notice it? Even as a socioeconomically upper middle class citizen in the black community, I've felt the sting of MI.
Here is a two minute minute video for you if you're open to knowing the truth about MI.
http://youtu.be/7CZJwMvlIBU
This is one of many documentary type films that have been made in the past few years.
I watched Ava DuVernay's documentary film on Netflix called 13th and was more horrified about the problem than ever. Fascinating documentary. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2016/10/06...
Here is a two minute minute video for you if you're open to knowing the truth about MI.
http://youtu.be/7CZJwMvlIBU
This is one of many documentary type films that have been made in the past few years.
I watched Ava DuVernay's documentary film on Netflix called 13th and was more horrified about the problem than ever. Fascinating documentary. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2016/10/06...
2
I accept that addiction is a disease. However, as discussed in this piece, it often starts with being born into a family of alcoholics/drug addicts. For the addict's children, the combination of environment and genetics make the disease very contagious, and the deadly cycle is passed down from generation to generation.
I am all for trying to help these women, but the truth is that in most cases the odds of long term recovery are poor. Allowing them to keep their children, and to continue having children, is an injustice to the children and society as a whole. For women with long term, chronic addiction, drugs or alcohol, sterilization and forfeiture of parental rights needs to be part of the equation.
I am sure this will cause outrage in some circles, but the harm these women cause to their innocent children overrides my sympathy for them.
I am all for trying to help these women, but the truth is that in most cases the odds of long term recovery are poor. Allowing them to keep their children, and to continue having children, is an injustice to the children and society as a whole. For women with long term, chronic addiction, drugs or alcohol, sterilization and forfeiture of parental rights needs to be part of the equation.
I am sure this will cause outrage in some circles, but the harm these women cause to their innocent children overrides my sympathy for them.
25
We could end the cycle of poverty and abuse in about 15 years (basically a generation) if we invested billions in high quality orphanages staffed by child psychologists and well trained and compensated child care professionals. And these should not be privatized because profit should not be part of the equation. This is not intended as punishment to parents who cannot resist drugs or who have been abused themselves but because it's in the best interests of their children and society. Orphanages are needed because the foster home system has been corrupted and is not protecting children.
6
Probably if this were to be made a public policy and implemented, it would end most addiction and criminal behavior within a generation. This is what happens in Europe. Contraception is widely encouraged. Crime rates are lower - a lot lower. Don't expect this to happen here though - you will have the drug industry, the crime industry and the rehabilitation industry fighting tooth and nail against this.
10
Perhaps we can give sympathy to these women by thinking of them as victims of child abuse? The cycle just continues to repeat itself if the right support and education isn't provided. How can we expect these mothers do any differently if they themselves haven't received or have been taught about love, affection and adequate care?
5
With our privatized prison system, where the main incentive is profit, America will only see higher and higher incarceration rates.
I certainly don't feel much safer despite living in a country with one of the highest incarceration rates.
I certainly don't feel much safer despite living in a country with one of the highest incarceration rates.
17
I have a different perspective. As a teacher in the inner city, I teach the children of these women. I see the devastation wrought by their mothers' choices. Yes, choices. I'm struck by this line in particular: "Like many female felons, Rabbit seems to have gotten in trouble because of a boyfriend who manipulated her into committing crimes."
No. A woman is an adult. She chose this. She got into trouble because she chose a bad boyfriend, stayed with him, & wanted him so much that she was willing to do his dirty work for him. Instead of choosing a man who would work in a job, & marry her. She chose someone who would put her own children in jeopardy.
I agree that drug incarcerations are a scandalous waste of resources. I think all drugs should be made legal. However, I'm also tired of the excuses. Women are adults, like men. We can't excuse them by saying they were all 'manipulated' by men.
How about an article about the children & the pain they are in because of the poor choices their parents made? Kids with drugs in their system, impacted their entire lives. Kids who bounce from house to house with no mother, or a mother who is erratically home, who treats her boyfriend more importantly than her own child?
Better yet, how about interviewing African Americans who *achieve* in the inner city? Hardworking families, caring parents with 2 jobs, kids who are thriving? There are many. Why is the media so focused on Black failure? Why must all the focus be on victimhood?
No. A woman is an adult. She chose this. She got into trouble because she chose a bad boyfriend, stayed with him, & wanted him so much that she was willing to do his dirty work for him. Instead of choosing a man who would work in a job, & marry her. She chose someone who would put her own children in jeopardy.
I agree that drug incarcerations are a scandalous waste of resources. I think all drugs should be made legal. However, I'm also tired of the excuses. Women are adults, like men. We can't excuse them by saying they were all 'manipulated' by men.
How about an article about the children & the pain they are in because of the poor choices their parents made? Kids with drugs in their system, impacted their entire lives. Kids who bounce from house to house with no mother, or a mother who is erratically home, who treats her boyfriend more importantly than her own child?
Better yet, how about interviewing African Americans who *achieve* in the inner city? Hardworking families, caring parents with 2 jobs, kids who are thriving? There are many. Why is the media so focused on Black failure? Why must all the focus be on victimhood?
70
Excellent comment. This recent Presidential administration and the election ignored the "culture of failure" in many extremely poor communities and focused on racial discrimination against blacks or immigration. I never heard a single comment on the terrible plight of children in poor single parent homes, although the statistics of future problems for these children are astounding. This summer, in Cleveland outside the Convention, I encountered a college professor who was studying the Cleveland inner city community and he told me that there is an embedded sense of failure that has been passed between generations. There is no point in trying to get better because the system is rigged against you, is the basic feeling. That is truly horrible and self fulfilling. Until we counter that with a model of people helping themselves, we will have people feeling that they do not have choices.
13
Yes that mother is an adult who made terrible choices and chooses a man who is abusive and drugs that dull her hopelessness. But she is most likely the adult version of the child you have in your care. I guess this article focus is not on failure but on hope despite all odds. This failure of our children by addicted mothers is not a color issue it encompasses all women and men who grow up being an inconvenient second thought. Now that they are adult and they continue with what they know we expect them to simply over come this burden and now step up to their responsibilities. No teacher can replace a parent but children certainly can respond to love and care and a role model. We citizens need to acknowledge that teachers need all available support that will enable them to be that caring role model. It maybe the only hope that child has to safe them from the cycle of hopelessness, if their parent has no access to programs that seems to help them overcome years of poor "choices".
7
Part of the point that is not made here is those who find themselves in these circumstances lack the basic training to enable them to make good choices. Early abuse leaves them desperately seeking the love they missed as children from abusing men, then from children they produce. Poor and self destructive decision making are intergenerational hallmarks of this experience.
13
We are beginning to see addiction as a disease, a public health issue. I am beginning to think that prison is an addiction in and of itself. It is the "drug" of choice for an America that does not want to deal with or confront the larger societal issues we face. Prison has its narrow place perhaps, but like overprescribed painkilllers, it is being used and abused far beyond what can be considered reasonable prevention. We need to our own national recovery program to break our addiction to it.
20
The personal stories are horrifying. Depressing.
But the part of this article that made my heart skip and leaves me staring at the wall in hopelessness is the graph, "Female incarcerations per 100,000 women." By country. Oh, America. We really are exceptional. And, it seems, we are about to become even more so.
But the part of this article that made my heart skip and leaves me staring at the wall in hopelessness is the graph, "Female incarcerations per 100,000 women." By country. Oh, America. We really are exceptional. And, it seems, we are about to become even more so.
16
As someone who is intimately involved in the fight against Mass Incarceration with and on behalf of children of incarcerated parents, I appreciate the writer's willingness to raise readers' awareness around such an important topic. However, his intention of creating a greater degree of public empathy for incarcerated people might be circumvented by the potentially harmful impact of some of his words
Here are three tips from a community advocate to Nicholas Kristof, and other Times opinion writers, when penning advocacy pieces about incarcerated parents:
1. In the eyes of their children, incarcerated parents are the latter of the aforementioned dichotomous identity. They are not "felons," "inmates," "prisoners," "addicts," or any of the like labels one may use, for in the eyes of their kin, they are "heroes," "mentors," "mommies," and "daddies." Just think of how any of the labels in the former of the two groups makes a child of an incarcerated parent feel before using one.
2. "Intergenerational" cycles of crime are a myth rooted in no evidence or reputable research. Although it may be tempting to cite "studies" that measure these "crime cycles" given it might increase buy-in for the use of alternatives to incarceration, it is, in fact, a farce.
3. Prioritize stories of resilience. Just like currently incarcerated people, children of parents who have been arrested and/or incarcerated are far more than the symptoms of their struggles. Our words must magnify their strength.
Here are three tips from a community advocate to Nicholas Kristof, and other Times opinion writers, when penning advocacy pieces about incarcerated parents:
1. In the eyes of their children, incarcerated parents are the latter of the aforementioned dichotomous identity. They are not "felons," "inmates," "prisoners," "addicts," or any of the like labels one may use, for in the eyes of their kin, they are "heroes," "mentors," "mommies," and "daddies." Just think of how any of the labels in the former of the two groups makes a child of an incarcerated parent feel before using one.
2. "Intergenerational" cycles of crime are a myth rooted in no evidence or reputable research. Although it may be tempting to cite "studies" that measure these "crime cycles" given it might increase buy-in for the use of alternatives to incarceration, it is, in fact, a farce.
3. Prioritize stories of resilience. Just like currently incarcerated people, children of parents who have been arrested and/or incarcerated are far more than the symptoms of their struggles. Our words must magnify their strength.
15
Dave: That their children may see them as *heroes* and *mentors* is a big part of the problem--just like the *prison fashion* of jeans hanging to one*s knees because prisoners aren't allowed belts.
Children of addicts and criminals have bigger problems than the word choices you use to tiptoe around the most profound failure one human being can be towards another.
Those children are better served by feeling the deepest revulsion for their parents* choices, and seeing themselves as individuals untainted by those terrible choices and free to make better ones.
Children of addicts and criminals have bigger problems than the word choices you use to tiptoe around the most profound failure one human being can be towards another.
Those children are better served by feeling the deepest revulsion for their parents* choices, and seeing themselves as individuals untainted by those terrible choices and free to make better ones.
6
This article should serve as a reminder to all the "get tough on criminal" proponents out there that many of the decisions that create adult criminals are made when the adult criminals are children. These are people who have been let down and abused by family,friends,community,schools,churches,law enforcement,etc..These "Mothers in Prison"have been fending for themselves since they were barely out of diapers. Encouraged by the selfish adults in their lives to engage in risky behavior and abandoned to the salacious needs and bad decisions of neglectful or predatory guardians and ultimately forced into criminal activity to simply survive.The decisions they make as parents are very much informed by the guidance,support and protection they did NOT get from their own parents as children. What is the solution? I have no answers. I do think that repairing the social safety net that supports poor families with small children might be a start . There used to be a ladder that led from working poor to working class,and from working class to middle class.That ladder has all but evaporated into the fog and mist of globalism. Poor people in general and poor mothers in particular need to be able to see a future where life gets better for them and their children. Something must be done soon or we will run out of space to build new jails.
14
Prison is unfortunately a system that makes the city and state money. If helping people in need were profitable then it would be done. Until that time victims of circumstances or stupidity will be put in jail by a system that only cares about your and its profits.
18
Time to petition your senators not to confirm Sessions as Attorney General. A message needs to be sent forcefully to our representatives that we shall not vote them back in office if they support principles of mandated incarceration for non-violent crimes. This was a bad policy that may even have stemmed from a Democratic administration (Bill Clinton), but has been proven to be worse than the Debtors Prison that Charles Dickens condemned in England. We are still living in the Dark Ages in too many communities of the United States.
24
Driving while under the influence of drugs or alcohol is a non-violent crime. Stealing someone's purse or credit/debit card is a non-violent crime. Absconding with a fortune from a business operation is a non-violent crime. And on and on.
Let's let these poor, misunderstood miscreants turn their lives around, shall we?
Let's let these poor, misunderstood miscreants turn their lives around, shall we?
3
As a child of abuse I can empathize with what these women have gone through. Unfortunately when you grow up in an abusive home you tend to lash out and become self destructive. I can trace my family history of child abuse directed towards the women back three generations and I suspect that most women in prison have similar legacies.
I also recognize that at some point you have to take personal responsibility and make a conscious decision to break the chain. Regardless of what happened to us as children we do have a choice in how we respond as adults.
We need to do more to identify these at risk women while they are still in highschool. If we can get them into programs such as the one described here where they get the needed counseling and job training programs before they offend we could break the chain.
We can't save everyone but programs like this that rehabilitate lives are worth the investment especially if they save the next generation also. Limit them to first time offenders who will appreciate the opportunity.
I also recognize that at some point you have to take personal responsibility and make a conscious decision to break the chain. Regardless of what happened to us as children we do have a choice in how we respond as adults.
We need to do more to identify these at risk women while they are still in highschool. If we can get them into programs such as the one described here where they get the needed counseling and job training programs before they offend we could break the chain.
We can't save everyone but programs like this that rehabilitate lives are worth the investment especially if they save the next generation also. Limit them to first time offenders who will appreciate the opportunity.
39
"Limit them to first time offenders who will appreciate the opportunity " wow! Apparently you forgot to read the article and misplaced your heart. Words fail me at the lack of empathy and compassion you show in your statement
Not all individuals are equally rational, but on average all groups of people respond rationally to incentives and disincentives, although not with the same strength of response. If you pay millions of bad parents to have more kids they can't support, as we currently do, they will have millions of kids they can't support. This is a rational response to a powerful incentive. The main social benefit of the mass incarceration of female criminals is that it limits their fecundity. Likewise for male criminals. We often hear complaints about how violent and precarious is the life of underclass individuals in places like Chicago's South Side. But imagine how much worse it would be if on principle society refused to imprison individuals who hurt others (including their own children).
15
Doesn't the financial waste bother you, if the loss of human lives -- and the destruction this has on our communities -- doesn't?
Why don't we challenge the free spending of millions of dollars to spend when there are other ways we could spend much LESS money and have results that are better for all concerned, like preschools and drug treatment, to name just two? Many fiscal conservatives have begun to wonder the same thing.
Also, if we want to allow women to make better choices that are appropriate for them about their reproduction, why does every household need to contribute $600 to the effort by means of locking people up, when healthcare and contraceptive coverage would be vastly cheaper, at the very least?
I would gladly pay for drug treatment, parenting classes, and the like, rather than forking over money for all these prisons, so that more children grow up a loving home environment, in a safe neighborhood, which would also make our society safer and better.
Why don't we challenge the free spending of millions of dollars to spend when there are other ways we could spend much LESS money and have results that are better for all concerned, like preschools and drug treatment, to name just two? Many fiscal conservatives have begun to wonder the same thing.
Also, if we want to allow women to make better choices that are appropriate for them about their reproduction, why does every household need to contribute $600 to the effort by means of locking people up, when healthcare and contraceptive coverage would be vastly cheaper, at the very least?
I would gladly pay for drug treatment, parenting classes, and the like, rather than forking over money for all these prisons, so that more children grow up a loving home environment, in a safe neighborhood, which would also make our society safer and better.
24
Raindrop, you raise a good point. Education based alternatives would be potentially very helpful in breaking cycles and identifying those at risk. Unfortunately, the biggest opponents of change in public education systems have been teachers unions and the teachers they represent. They funnel kids into terribly under resourced conventional school programs and fight every alternative, for purely economic reasons. Local and State politicians must have this groups support at the polls and there you have a system doomed to perpetuate the failure.
2
Would it be possible to make "intermediate" communities where people who have committed crimes can live with certain restrictions (no drugs, no alcohol), mandatory rehab and job training without being in a prison? Communities with apartments, playgrounds, schools, jobs -- but the convicted people cannot leave for any reason for a fixed period. Others (such as family members) could live there and would of course be free to travel. If it could be managed, it would be a win-win for all involved.
15
Sounds great, but when you fill your utopia with people that have spent their lives (for whatever reasons) making serial bad decisions, do you think they magically won't repeat those mistakes under your system? What would happen is that most of them would end up breaking the rules. You would punish them how? By um..putting them in jail? Probation and parole are much the same as your utopian system. They aren't supposed to do any drugs or drink, or associate with certain folks, but that lasts how long in the real world, and how long would it last in your prison without walls, particularly if, as you suggest, outsiders could live there as well without restrictions.
I believe in incarcerating people less, but don't be taken in by their unsubstantiated personal reports. While no doubt there are many genuine horror stories, people in jails are among the most manipulative on earth, and they will lie any time they think it might help. You can feel sorry for their children in foster care, and by all means improve that system, but isn't it worse for children to be raised by drug addicted mothers? I'm all for any effort to treat drug addiction, and reward those that succeed, but don't be foolish. The 'financial crimes' that are referenced in the article as being unworthy of jail, and often refers to theft without violence, are serious crimes. Burglary is among those, and a burglary is always a murder waiting to happen, all it takes is someone returning home early.
I believe in incarcerating people less, but don't be taken in by their unsubstantiated personal reports. While no doubt there are many genuine horror stories, people in jails are among the most manipulative on earth, and they will lie any time they think it might help. You can feel sorry for their children in foster care, and by all means improve that system, but isn't it worse for children to be raised by drug addicted mothers? I'm all for any effort to treat drug addiction, and reward those that succeed, but don't be foolish. The 'financial crimes' that are referenced in the article as being unworthy of jail, and often refers to theft without violence, are serious crimes. Burglary is among those, and a burglary is always a murder waiting to happen, all it takes is someone returning home early.
3
It is important to realize that the women mentioned in this article have been in jail before - these are repeat offenders. Most drug users are manipulative and these appear to follow that pattern. Would a light sentence or an early release because they are "mothers" ensure that they would stop using drugs? Probably not - the only reason they are currently drug free is because they are in prison. These are adults who chose drugs over their children before. They were not good parents before they went to prison and will probably not become better when released. Let them serve their time.
33
Maureen, what you say is wrong. Please read the article carefully, noting the parts about the rehab program where the women are not kept in prison.
18
If they are not in jail, then they are in a residential facility where they are regularly checked for drug use. Once the 17 month program is over, they will probably revert. Not a happy ending here. Intensive rehab should be offered to younger women who have the best chance of recovery.
5
If they are not going to be better parents after what is the purpose or good of them serving long sentences? We should be working to rehabilitate these people. That way less taxpayer/government money is spent on housing them in prison and we can actually maybe get people off of drugs - long term. Maybe even forever. It's possible. But these women are saying - prison alone is not enough. There's no rehab there- you're clean by force. If they don't change your thinking you can't change your habits. Think of them as people, not "drug addicts."
A more honest approach to this problem would ask: What is the cure for brain damage? How do you permanently fix someone whose brain is miswired?
Why do we divide one profoundly-difficult issue into many parts?
Prisons should be the primary providers of drug treatment and rehabilitation programs. Release from prison should be conditional not only on "getting clean," but the learning of life skills, including management of difficult emotions, how to successfully cope with frustration, and the diagnosis of mental illness and a lifelong treatment plan with access to competent providers of service.
Note that Republican and Democratic lawmakers are equally-venal consumers of lobbyist dollars that keep what should be government programs in private, for-profit hands.
Every prison should have programs such as the training of service dogs, which have been remarkably successful at reaching those previously believed to be unreachable. The road to becoming a good parent can be paved with rewarding relationships with non-judgmental creatures who help to build empathy and responsibility in those who previously seemed devoid of those qualities.
We don't need sentimental handwringing but clear-eyed approaches to extremely difficult problems. Mr. Kristoff tends to indulge in the former.
Why do we divide one profoundly-difficult issue into many parts?
Prisons should be the primary providers of drug treatment and rehabilitation programs. Release from prison should be conditional not only on "getting clean," but the learning of life skills, including management of difficult emotions, how to successfully cope with frustration, and the diagnosis of mental illness and a lifelong treatment plan with access to competent providers of service.
Note that Republican and Democratic lawmakers are equally-venal consumers of lobbyist dollars that keep what should be government programs in private, for-profit hands.
Every prison should have programs such as the training of service dogs, which have been remarkably successful at reaching those previously believed to be unreachable. The road to becoming a good parent can be paved with rewarding relationships with non-judgmental creatures who help to build empathy and responsibility in those who previously seemed devoid of those qualities.
We don't need sentimental handwringing but clear-eyed approaches to extremely difficult problems. Mr. Kristoff tends to indulge in the former.
22
SCA, how can you say that Mr. Kristof's description of an effective program is handwringing? Have you closed your eyes?
8
there's a reason those are called "life skills." they take a while to learn.
meanwhile, for other reasons, i quite agree that the "crime" need not call exclusively for punishment. sometimes helpfulness is very...well, helpful.
meanwhile, for other reasons, i quite agree that the "crime" need not call exclusively for punishment. sometimes helpfulness is very...well, helpful.
1
Thomas Zaslavsky: Let's wait for a ten-year check-in before we call this program "effective." Let's see how their children fare.
3
While I don't usually agree with Mr. Kristof, he brings up a good point that we are willing to pay far more in direct and social costs for incarceration, for drug offenses, than for treatment.
The drug war has failed, and failed miserably. We don't need to expend dollars and destroy people's futures for drug violations when the most affected are the poor (both white and people of color) and this incarceration isn't the best solution, or the cheapest.
President-Elect Trump has a chance to move the classification of marijuana to the least dangerous, something Pres. Obama's DEA didn't do. That would be a lot smarter and cheaper than expending resources on drug arrests when we have problems, more pressing.
This isn't coddling criminals, it is facing reality and the best allocation of our resources. The programs and the idea of pot decriminalization would be one way to heal the nation from decades of supporting policies that don't work.
The drug war has failed, and failed miserably. We don't need to expend dollars and destroy people's futures for drug violations when the most affected are the poor (both white and people of color) and this incarceration isn't the best solution, or the cheapest.
President-Elect Trump has a chance to move the classification of marijuana to the least dangerous, something Pres. Obama's DEA didn't do. That would be a lot smarter and cheaper than expending resources on drug arrests when we have problems, more pressing.
This isn't coddling criminals, it is facing reality and the best allocation of our resources. The programs and the idea of pot decriminalization would be one way to heal the nation from decades of supporting policies that don't work.
27
The question of mothers in prison is a complex question.
We need to separate the use of drugs from selling of drugs.
We need to separate penalties about marijuina from hard drugs like heroin etc.
Violent crimes robbery murder etc. should not be tolerated.
These consideration apply to both sexes.
For incarcerated parents [both mothers and FATHERS] we need to make it easier for the parent to have contact with the child.
For certain crimes there are limitations but for drug related crimes and crimes not involving abuse of the child or the other parent contact should be made easier.
This helps both the child and the incarcerated parent.
We need to separate the use of drugs from selling of drugs.
We need to separate penalties about marijuina from hard drugs like heroin etc.
Violent crimes robbery murder etc. should not be tolerated.
These consideration apply to both sexes.
For incarcerated parents [both mothers and FATHERS] we need to make it easier for the parent to have contact with the child.
For certain crimes there are limitations but for drug related crimes and crimes not involving abuse of the child or the other parent contact should be made easier.
This helps both the child and the incarcerated parent.
10
Using and selling go together very often. Either may lead to the other. (I base this on reading many accounts.) Then what? You can't separate them in real life; what does need to be separated is the people from the environment in which there are illegal drugs and the environment in which there is nothing but illegal drugs.
8
If someone is using and selling then they are selling and I have little sympathy for them.
If one is just using [and there are people like that] then I think their sentences are too harsh.
If one is just using [and there are people like that] then I think their sentences are too harsh.
7
This is intelligent, the left looks at incarceration as the devil(police, sheriffs and judges) hurting innocent people who happen to be poor. I guess that's why they live in "white" enclaves like the west side of LA,Manhattan below 125th street and all of San Francisco.
Crime without victims is crime that involves someone else.
Hypocrites!
Crime without victims is crime that involves someone else.
Hypocrites!
1
It's become crystal clear mass incarceration is all about population control. People in prison can't reproduce. Put as many child bearing age Blacks in prison as possible, for as long as possible, and watch the Black population decline. It's worked, the Black population has gotten smaller relative to other minorities.
America now has an overtly racist government hostile to Afro-Americans, with an attorney general who clearly thinks that since slavery no longer exists, Black lives are are undesirable zero value commodities. This means any attempt to continue this population control policy can and must be met by armed resistance. If Putin supports Trump, China and Muslim movements will be glad to support such an insurrection.
America now has an overtly racist government hostile to Afro-Americans, with an attorney general who clearly thinks that since slavery no longer exists, Black lives are are undesirable zero value commodities. This means any attempt to continue this population control policy can and must be met by armed resistance. If Putin supports Trump, China and Muslim movements will be glad to support such an insurrection.
9
People in prison can reproduce. Guards sometimes engage in sex with prisoners.
So, Barack Obama, former AG Eric Holder and current Attorney General Loretta Lynch are overtly racist against Afro Americans? You gotta be kidding me. Mr. Holder in particular did everything he possibly could to address the mass incarceration problem in America and in his final days of his presidency so is Mr. Obama. What would you prefer?
4
My criticism was aimed at Nixon and Reagan, who were the original perpetrators of mass incarceration.
The story of someone I know who adopted a fostered child is the story of far too many people. A lousy prenatal environment led to lifelong problems no amount of love or intervention could cure. The adoptive parents are now raising a grandchild whose prenatal environment repeats the pattern. They love their daughter, they love their grandchild, and no amount of stability has been able to prevent a repeat of what brought them their daughter in the first place.
These women are mostly not curable. They have children who are mostly not curable.
There is no answer to the problem of human nature. Revisit these women in ten years and tell me how many of these "innovative programs" have had long-term success.
Meanwhile, there aren't enough safe, nurturing foster homes. There isn't enough of anything, there never will be, outside of a rigorously controlled Big Brother society, and we don't want that, do we? We don't want a eugenics program, do we? We insist that every woman has the right to "decide" to bear children, and then society pays for her choice.
OK--your move.
These women are mostly not curable. They have children who are mostly not curable.
There is no answer to the problem of human nature. Revisit these women in ten years and tell me how many of these "innovative programs" have had long-term success.
Meanwhile, there aren't enough safe, nurturing foster homes. There isn't enough of anything, there never will be, outside of a rigorously controlled Big Brother society, and we don't want that, do we? We don't want a eugenics program, do we? We insist that every woman has the right to "decide" to bear children, and then society pays for her choice.
OK--your move.
26
SCA, i'm with you on this
"We insist that every woman has the right to "decide" to bear children, and then society pays for her choice."
Instead of enforcing her taking the responsibility for her decision.
An epitome of liberal idiocy.
"We insist that every woman has the right to "decide" to bear children, and then society pays for her choice."
Instead of enforcing her taking the responsibility for her decision.
An epitome of liberal idiocy.
2
What a worthless article. "There’s a devastating impact on the children,” Duh, what would you expect if your mother is a criminal. What's next for Mr. Kristof, an article about how men who commit homicides should be treated with leniency because they have fathered numerous kids?
For many of these criminals the old cliche, "lock them up and throw away the key" should be appended with "and take away their children to raise the kids in law-abiding foster homes".
For many of these criminals the old cliche, "lock them up and throw away the key" should be appended with "and take away their children to raise the kids in law-abiding foster homes".
22
What law-abiding foster homes? In Oregon, the foster child program has had many bad foster parents. I suspect this is true in other states as well.
2
If you do the crime, then you do the crime. Thank you.
11
Is this "prison didn't get me anywhere" subheading supposed to be insightful?
Because it's laughable. Since when is using drugs, having children you cannot care for and doing crimes like robbery supposed to be anything but a ticket to jail? Is there a single person on the planet who wants to have Janay Manning for a neighbor?
Because it's laughable. Since when is using drugs, having children you cannot care for and doing crimes like robbery supposed to be anything but a ticket to jail? Is there a single person on the planet who wants to have Janay Manning for a neighbor?
29
I'm surprised that China has 1/10th the incarceration rate as the US, despite what we hear of their government.
5
Roy Womsley who compiles the international prison report asks the various countries for data about their prison population. Some countries give complete reports some give incomplete reports and others will not report anything. He only reports data about sentenced prisoners.
China is known to hold people without charging them with a crime and they don't report them.
Another factor is that many countries cannot afford to have a high incarceration rate and they use lower cost alternatives.
China is known to hold people without charging them with a crime and they don't report them.
Another factor is that many countries cannot afford to have a high incarceration rate and they use lower cost alternatives.
11
Image result for Highest executions by country
Death penalty around the world
Country Total executed, 2007-12 Total sentenced to death, 2007-12
CHINA THOUSANDS THOUSANDS
IRAN 1,663 156
SAUDI ARABIA 423 54
IRAQ 256 1,420
Possible reason behind China'a lower incarceration totals?
If they are dead, you can't very well throw 'em in jail.
Death penalty around the world
Country Total executed, 2007-12 Total sentenced to death, 2007-12
CHINA THOUSANDS THOUSANDS
IRAN 1,663 156
SAUDI ARABIA 423 54
IRAQ 256 1,420
Possible reason behind China'a lower incarceration totals?
If they are dead, you can't very well throw 'em in jail.
1
It's not te Chines government, it's the people.
The crime rates among Chinese women are far lower than in the US.
The crime rates among Chinese women are far lower than in the US.
2
Three powerful quotes from Fr.Greg Boyle of Homeboy Industries, who work with male and female ex-gang members:
“Here is what we seek: a compassion that can stand in awe at what the poor have to carry rather than stand in judgment at how they carry it.”
“No daylight to separate us.
Only kinship. Inching ourselves closer to creating a community of kinship such that God might recognize it. Soon we imagine, with God, this circle of compassion. Then we imagine no one standing outside of that circle, moving ourselves closer to the margins so that the margins themselves will be erased. We stand there with those whose dignity has been denied. We locate ourselves with the poor and the powerless and the voiceless. At the edges, we join the easily despised and the readily left out. We stand with the demonized so that the demonizing will stop. We situate ourselves right next to the disposable so that the day will come when we stop throwing people away.”
“The self cannot survive without love, and the self, starved of love, dies. The absence of self-love is shame, "just as cold is the absence of warmth." Disgrace obscuring the son... Franciscan Richard Rohr writes that "the Lord comes to us disguised as ourselves.”
― Gregory J. Boyle, Tattoos on the Heart: The Power of Boundless Compassion
“Here is what we seek: a compassion that can stand in awe at what the poor have to carry rather than stand in judgment at how they carry it.”
“No daylight to separate us.
Only kinship. Inching ourselves closer to creating a community of kinship such that God might recognize it. Soon we imagine, with God, this circle of compassion. Then we imagine no one standing outside of that circle, moving ourselves closer to the margins so that the margins themselves will be erased. We stand there with those whose dignity has been denied. We locate ourselves with the poor and the powerless and the voiceless. At the edges, we join the easily despised and the readily left out. We stand with the demonized so that the demonizing will stop. We situate ourselves right next to the disposable so that the day will come when we stop throwing people away.”
“The self cannot survive without love, and the self, starved of love, dies. The absence of self-love is shame, "just as cold is the absence of warmth." Disgrace obscuring the son... Franciscan Richard Rohr writes that "the Lord comes to us disguised as ourselves.”
― Gregory J. Boyle, Tattoos on the Heart: The Power of Boundless Compassion
15
Bravo, Ron.
I agree that programs like in Tulsa would be more productive than jail. But separating These women from their children, at least for some time, seems unavoidable. All the stories you tell show that these women came out of families abusing drugs. You thus have to conclude that you cannot leave children in such families or with such mothers.
11
Thanks to Mr. Kristoff for this article. This article lays bare the effect of mass incarceration on society. It is time we thought about how to end mass incarceration and it's impact not only on the offender but their loved ones who are serving time with them on the outside.
The needs of prisoners are different and I applaud the author for looking at female incarceration. The University of Pennsylvania Law School has a program called Documentaries and the Law. The video advocacy documentaries are created and produced by law students and they have one titled "Mothers in Prison." I suggest everyone review this video at: https://youtu.be/pqTXt3jqchQ
People find themselves in prison for a myriad of reasons and the comments by others here shows an insensitivity to human emotions and failings. Many of these stories shows how abuse, victimization and neglect while in someone's formative years leads to the crime and we need to have more compassion for our fellow citizen.
The needs of prisoners are different and I applaud the author for looking at female incarceration. The University of Pennsylvania Law School has a program called Documentaries and the Law. The video advocacy documentaries are created and produced by law students and they have one titled "Mothers in Prison." I suggest everyone review this video at: https://youtu.be/pqTXt3jqchQ
People find themselves in prison for a myriad of reasons and the comments by others here shows an insensitivity to human emotions and failings. Many of these stories shows how abuse, victimization and neglect while in someone's formative years leads to the crime and we need to have more compassion for our fellow citizen.
17
Compassion and empathy are fine. So are responsibility and accountability.
3
My compassion went out the window the first time I got mugged. While I don't think you should be in prison because you're smoking marijuana, I have no sysmpathy for people who engage in other criminal acts.
5
I agree, Danna.
Compassion is the essence of humanity.
Kenneth
Compassion is the essence of humanity.
Kenneth
I support what Gail from Florida wrote. These women need to become feminists, to stop thinking a not too steady man in your life will make your life better, not worse. A mother in prison, hopefully trying to get sober, or an addicted, reckless mother at home, which is better for the innocent children? It appalls me when I read about the troubles in the foster care system that seem too often to be just as bad as their 'home' life. One NYT 5 part series was about a young girl, Dasani, and her life with her 8 siblings and off and on addicted mother and father who didn't work, living in 'temporary' housing (1 room). I found that the fault for her situation could be divided 50/50. Dasani mostly raised the younger children as her mother 'wasn't up to it.' The city paid money for the children to get counseling; the mother took the money and ignored the counseling. Such bad upon bad decisions that compounded the family's problems. (And this family had two parents, not just one). But social services where not up to the task of helping. Bureaucratic and neglectful. Not one social worker was able to stay long enough to help. While this story has nothing to do with prison, it highlights the problems of children with addicted parents...chaos, hurt, diminished lives. The program you described gives one hope. But 10 months is a short time to judge the success of staying sober. What happens when life gets difficult again? Drugs, booze are sweet songs that keep calling.
15
Totally agree that big helping of feminism could make a difference for ladies in these situations. The best thing a woman can do for her children is forget about Prince Charming and attend to the business of meeting her childrens' needs herself. Motherhood is a huge work, but we can do it. We arw power-full.
2
This is an excellent program that works and would not exist without the support of many players in our community, primarily the George Kaiser Family Foundation which provides funding. Our Tulsa philanthropists are amazing and I thank them all .
19
Thank you for your voice of reason among so many disgusting and ignorant comments.
Prison should be a rigorous experience, but not entirely in the way many commenters interpret that.
No one should earn parole until they have earned, at the minimum, a HS degree with marketable skills. No one should earn parole or be eligible for release without a realistic after-prison plan. Where will you live? How will you support yourself? Who will have access to your home?
Unfortunately for most people, time inside is time wasted. But it's not the role of society to offer blandishments to offenders. Offenders must earn the right to be released back into society by becoming "society-ready."
And parents should get only one chance. That's more than enough, when the lives of children are at risk.
A commenter below notes the desperation of children to live with their birth parents. Well, that's natural. Children are willing to endure terrible things just to be with "mom." The issue is not what children want, but what is demonstrably best for them--to live in safe, stable, nurturing environments.
But we can't ensure that to everyone, no matter how much we wish we could. Free will has consequences.
No one should earn parole until they have earned, at the minimum, a HS degree with marketable skills. No one should earn parole or be eligible for release without a realistic after-prison plan. Where will you live? How will you support yourself? Who will have access to your home?
Unfortunately for most people, time inside is time wasted. But it's not the role of society to offer blandishments to offenders. Offenders must earn the right to be released back into society by becoming "society-ready."
And parents should get only one chance. That's more than enough, when the lives of children are at risk.
A commenter below notes the desperation of children to live with their birth parents. Well, that's natural. Children are willing to endure terrible things just to be with "mom." The issue is not what children want, but what is demonstrably best for them--to live in safe, stable, nurturing environments.
But we can't ensure that to everyone, no matter how much we wish we could. Free will has consequences.
7
So, they earn a high school degree and then who will hire them? Felon is burned across their foreheads and not many businesses want to deal with it. It's amazing what a job and self sufficiency can do for them...if only they get a chance.
9
Well, Connie, there are consequences to bad choices and society can't fix all of them. Would you, yourself, want a felon to be your plumber, have access to your home, learn who your kids are? Do you want a felon to have access to your credit card info?
Do you want a felon working in the nursing home where a frail relative lives?
People don't gain good judgment along with their release date. They don't lose the brain deficits that landed them in trouble in the first place.
What's your answer?
Do you want a felon working in the nursing home where a frail relative lives?
People don't gain good judgment along with their release date. They don't lose the brain deficits that landed them in trouble in the first place.
What's your answer?
20
Connie,
"It's amazing what a job and self sufficiency can do for them...if only they get a chance."
Then, they need to earn their chance. I know it's hard, but many felons have done it. The rest should probably settle permanently on the other side of the wire.
In real life, there are winners and losers, and life is better for this.
"It's amazing what a job and self sufficiency can do for them...if only they get a chance."
Then, they need to earn their chance. I know it's hard, but many felons have done it. The rest should probably settle permanently on the other side of the wire.
In real life, there are winners and losers, and life is better for this.
3
The Volkswagen chief executive set up a program to cheat emissions and received no criminal punishment. If I were to alter my car exhaust using cheater parts to produce a clean emissions report and submit that to the DMV I would be sent to prison. That's the problem.
14
Sorry--but no society can provide perfect solutions to the faults of human nature.
Aggressive promotion of birth control? The founder of Planned Parenthood was a firm believer in eugenics, and we know where that philosophy can lead.
We can't police every home in America. Sexual and physical abuse of children is found across every income and ethnic group. We cannot guarantee the perfect family to anyone. What was "normal" during my upbringing would bring the force of the law against my father today.
There are reasons societies, since the dawn of civilization, try to impose certain norms on their members. "Anything goes" doesn't work too well.
And many well-meaning reforms and programs end up exacerbating problems they were intended to ease. Bring your baby to high school? That ended up glamorizing teen parenthood in the eyes of those who most needed to avoid becoming parents. Social welfare supports that enabled teen parents--mostly mothers--to keep their babies? Grandparents mostly ended up raising an increasing crop of grandchildren.
Preventing these stories must begin pre-conception of the previous generations. Too many children are born with the brain miswiring that leads to poor impulse control, an inability to correlate cause and effect, a predisposition towards addictive behaviors. We can't cure this problem, when even educated, elite young women howl at being told they shouldn't drink alcohol during their fertile years unless they use birth control.
Aggressive promotion of birth control? The founder of Planned Parenthood was a firm believer in eugenics, and we know where that philosophy can lead.
We can't police every home in America. Sexual and physical abuse of children is found across every income and ethnic group. We cannot guarantee the perfect family to anyone. What was "normal" during my upbringing would bring the force of the law against my father today.
There are reasons societies, since the dawn of civilization, try to impose certain norms on their members. "Anything goes" doesn't work too well.
And many well-meaning reforms and programs end up exacerbating problems they were intended to ease. Bring your baby to high school? That ended up glamorizing teen parenthood in the eyes of those who most needed to avoid becoming parents. Social welfare supports that enabled teen parents--mostly mothers--to keep their babies? Grandparents mostly ended up raising an increasing crop of grandchildren.
Preventing these stories must begin pre-conception of the previous generations. Too many children are born with the brain miswiring that leads to poor impulse control, an inability to correlate cause and effect, a predisposition towards addictive behaviors. We can't cure this problem, when even educated, elite young women howl at being told they shouldn't drink alcohol during their fertile years unless they use birth control.
15
In America we let white collar criminals off or give them light sentences when they have ruined hundreds or thousands of lives but when it comes to helping people before they wind up in prison it's too much money to spend. It's too difficult to provide families with decent affordable housing, to see to it that all children get an opportunity to have a good education, to learn the basics, to provide all citizens and legal residents with healthcare they need. We can watch our legislators give out welfare to corporations, to rich people, to special interest groups yet when it comes to us and items like retraining for good jobs, extended unemployment benefits, protection from dishonest lenders or business practices the will isn't there. It speaks volumes about American values when you are unemployed, ill, unable to afford health care, homeless, or in need of any sort of assistance (especially if you are single) to learn how difficult it is to receive it.
We seem to prefer to let people become totally impoverished, have to resort to stealing, never learn to read, live in bad areas with all that implies, unable to afford treatment rather than helping them to become or remain productive citizens. How many more "examples" do we need to create before we realize that punishment is useless unless we rehabilitate or prevent these things from occurring?
We seem to prefer to let people become totally impoverished, have to resort to stealing, never learn to read, live in bad areas with all that implies, unable to afford treatment rather than helping them to become or remain productive citizens. How many more "examples" do we need to create before we realize that punishment is useless unless we rehabilitate or prevent these things from occurring?
20
I have cops and crooks in my family. And the entire family lives with the consequences of their bilateral career choices. Prison is the clear lingering American legacy of the 13th Amendment's carefully colored continuation of slavery and involuntary servitude.
Punishment and retribution define the purpose of imprisonment in America leading to a staggering record of recidivism. Rehabilitation and reform are denied the 2.3 million Americans currently in prison and the 4.7 million Americans awaiting trial or those who are on parole or living with the consequences of their criminal record. America has 25% of Planet Earth's prisoners with 5% of human beings. And 40% of them are black African even though blacks are a mere 13.2% of Americans are black. Another 20% are brown Latino while 16.7% of Americans are Latino not all of them are brown.
My family crooks cycle in and out of prison passing some of their pathology to some in the next generation. Family cops know the crooks but can not save nor deter them. And so it goes.
Punishment and retribution define the purpose of imprisonment in America leading to a staggering record of recidivism. Rehabilitation and reform are denied the 2.3 million Americans currently in prison and the 4.7 million Americans awaiting trial or those who are on parole or living with the consequences of their criminal record. America has 25% of Planet Earth's prisoners with 5% of human beings. And 40% of them are black African even though blacks are a mere 13.2% of Americans are black. Another 20% are brown Latino while 16.7% of Americans are Latino not all of them are brown.
My family crooks cycle in and out of prison passing some of their pathology to some in the next generation. Family cops know the crooks but can not save nor deter them. And so it goes.
12
This is a streight up appeal to emotion. Prison is for punishment. It should only be for punishment and the records of the inmates should be permanent, immutable and public. Just because a crime is " non violent " does not make it not deserving of incarceration. I'm sure the victim of the financial crimes one inmate in the story was convicted of would not be terribly happy to know that there are those who advocate for no meaningful consequences for her criminal misconduct.
6
How is it we are discussing the particulars when the overwhelming fact is, the U.S. incarcerates women at a rate 13 times greater than the global average? Perhaps, we should work on the dismal third-world standard of living in our poorer states -- if they still want to be America.
5
Here are some interesting facts, OG.
California has the lowest high school graduation rate in the US. Lower even that Mississippi, for goodness sakes.
California has more people living in poverty than any other state in the US. You want homelessness, go to L.A. or Frisco.
California has more people in prison than any other state in the US. LaLaLand is under federal court order to reduce its prison population.
Given these third world standards so prevalent in CA, Calexit sounds like a great idea to the rest of the US.
California has the lowest high school graduation rate in the US. Lower even that Mississippi, for goodness sakes.
California has more people living in poverty than any other state in the US. You want homelessness, go to L.A. or Frisco.
California has more people in prison than any other state in the US. LaLaLand is under federal court order to reduce its prison population.
Given these third world standards so prevalent in CA, Calexit sounds like a great idea to the rest of the US.
2
What would you have the legal system do; they are charged with enforcing laws that punish criminals. To say that the situation may worsen with Mr. Sessions is duplicitous as you do not say that the situation has steadily worsened no matter who was Attorney General.
The answer lies in State and Federal Legislatures which should be tasked with reviewing the mandated punishment meted out by the courts and develop a fair system which actually strives to the goals of appropriate incarceration and decreasing crime (violent and not).
The answer lies in State and Federal Legislatures which should be tasked with reviewing the mandated punishment meted out by the courts and develop a fair system which actually strives to the goals of appropriate incarceration and decreasing crime (violent and not).
7
I am so, so sad for women and men locked up because of alcohol and drug use and all of the poorly planned actions that alcohol and drugs facilitate. The moral issue of addition lies at the feet of moralists who harp on about poor character and poor behavior. Our minds and bodies are connected. Period. The United States' high incarceration rates are part of a big picture that involves lack of awareness of how to care for one's self. Self-care leads to self-respect. I worry that things are about to get worse.
6
The reactions to this article are very interesting. Some prison inmates are truthful and other are not and it is hard to tell the difference. Some of the people who commented are well informed and other are not.
It appears to me that a substantial number of those who commented were fed up with stories about criminals being victims. I can understand that but some of the prisoners were child victims who then victimized others. However I also know of cases where the child victim did not victimize others. I wish I understood the difference.
It appears to me that a substantial number of those who commented were fed up with stories about criminals being victims. I can understand that but some of the prisoners were child victims who then victimized others. However I also know of cases where the child victim did not victimize others. I wish I understood the difference.
5
Thank you Mr. Kristof, but this is just the beginning of your investigation. The children and relative caregivers are most hurt by mass incarceration. California, thanks to Jerry Brown, is the only state that offers financial support to relative caregivers most of which are grandparents that have already raised their kids. The courts penny wise, pound foolish, dirty little secret — Children are moved from poverty in foster care with services to abject poverty with relative caregivers without services. Case plans are written setting mothers up for failure in that, in order to get their children back they have to stay clean, be gainfully employed and have approved housing. Few finished high school.
Thank you, Tulsa. As a volunteer Guardian ad Litem — this is a program I could sink my teeth into. We can't advocate for children while ignoring what got the children into the system in the first place.
Thank you, Tulsa. As a volunteer Guardian ad Litem — this is a program I could sink my teeth into. We can't advocate for children while ignoring what got the children into the system in the first place.
12
Birth control! At least it would prevent babies being born to another generation of dysfunctional parents. With long-term birth control available perhaps young women with troubled and addicted lives would welcome this as part of their rehab!
24
If only The New York Times encouraged this more! Long term birth control is an answer to so many problems, but it is not put forward as often as it should be. It seems some late too comfortable writing and moralizing about these issues instead of avoiding them completely.
3
I find that there is so much wrong with the concept of a prison. Prison should be the last alternative for someone who posses a great amount of threat to the public, not someone who clearly needs help from drug addiction. We only live once. We need more programs such as Women In Recovery where help is offered as opposed to punishment.
5
They're not just in jail for drug use. They're in jail for being muggers and robbers. Where else should they be?
16
What do the countries who fall at or below the median for female incarceration do with their habitual, repeat offender, drug users in lieu of prison? It's clear they can't be on the street until they have demonstrably established a pattern of not reoffending over a period of years. Is this just another measure of the relative sickness of America's society among the nations of the world?
5
I am excited that you are so eager to attack the problem of "Mothers in prison".
Now if you would only attack and offer a solution to the real problem, what got them there! The sexual abuse, drugs, alcohol, adult felonious by boyfriends et al.
How about the generational dependence on welfare, government handouts without responsibility or guidance or politically correct treatment of the responsible fathers and abusers with no regard or retribution. The science exists to track and place the demands on the miscreant male offenders deeds and their children and punish them accordingly, but the "liberal" mindset does not allow proper assignment of guilt. We, society, are to blame and must bare the cost for your, yes you Mr. Kristoff, misdirection and unproductive allocation of both resources and support.
Now if you would only attack and offer a solution to the real problem, what got them there! The sexual abuse, drugs, alcohol, adult felonious by boyfriends et al.
How about the generational dependence on welfare, government handouts without responsibility or guidance or politically correct treatment of the responsible fathers and abusers with no regard or retribution. The science exists to track and place the demands on the miscreant male offenders deeds and their children and punish them accordingly, but the "liberal" mindset does not allow proper assignment of guilt. We, society, are to blame and must bare the cost for your, yes you Mr. Kristoff, misdirection and unproductive allocation of both resources and support.
10
It is obvious that you did not read the article or even understand this information. The path to prison for many women is through a chaotic childhood. This started because their parents and grandparents had chaotic lives. Where did this come from? It's not "welfare" as you so smugly assume--from reading the article and others like it, it's the multi generational breakdown in family brought on by rapid changes in technology and the lack of opportunity. The RIGHT always makes everything a moral failing( their morals, mind you!) versus actually recognizing that the years of neglect and poor education, lack of services brought on by stingy local/state governments and loss of manufacturing jobs sent elsewhere by greedy 1%ers has eroded the family safety net. Not to mention the utterly failed "War on Drugs"....unless you are wealthy and can get a good lawyer!
While these women committed crimes many would be better off for both society and themselves if we would focus efforts on rehab instead of shaming( the great Republican pastime!)
While these women committed crimes many would be better off for both society and themselves if we would focus efforts on rehab instead of shaming( the great Republican pastime!)
8
Mary,
"It's not "welfare" as you so smugly assume--from reading the article and others like it, it's the multi generational breakdown in family brought on by rapid changes in technology and the lack of opportunity."
Do you have any evidence for your assertion? Rapid changes in technology have swept through most of the world, but we don't see "the multi generational breakdown in family" in technologically savvy Japan, Singapore, Switzerland, Australia, etc not nearly to the degree we see in the US.
Blaming depravity on technology and competition, yeah right.
"It's not "welfare" as you so smugly assume--from reading the article and others like it, it's the multi generational breakdown in family brought on by rapid changes in technology and the lack of opportunity."
Do you have any evidence for your assertion? Rapid changes in technology have swept through most of the world, but we don't see "the multi generational breakdown in family" in technologically savvy Japan, Singapore, Switzerland, Australia, etc not nearly to the degree we see in the US.
Blaming depravity on technology and competition, yeah right.
2
There needs to be a concerted effort to get girls out of abusive situations early - before they end up like the women in these stories. We seem to think that the "family" is sacrosanct, no matter how dysfunctional it is.
Breaking the cycle of drug abuse, poverty, and crime is the only way we are going to fix this problem. If that means removing children more aggressively when drugs or abuse is discovered, so be it.
Breaking the cycle of drug abuse, poverty, and crime is the only way we are going to fix this problem. If that means removing children more aggressively when drugs or abuse is discovered, so be it.
10
"In fact, the women should evoke sympathy" This blanket statement is off the charts. A number of these women will commit violent crimes to get drugs or at the behest of a male friend. Sympathy? More like fear. I thought we stood for gender equality under the Dems. If they break the law, they go to jail, single mother or not. It's that simple.
15
There's hope for these women, because people can change when they've had enough. They have a capacity for developing things like empathy. That means there's hope for everyone, including you.
17
Maybe the people who've had enough are those who have to live with them and their crimes.
1
I find it both life-affirming and heartbreaking that despite the most devastating, soul-crushing circumstances, people want a shot at redemption and, if given the chance, will not only rise to the occasion, but shatter our expectations.
10
These people are parasites.....they're not exactly where they belong.
6
Meantime the doctors and big pharma are living large off the prescription heroin industry which has lined their pockets.
6
Er, um,
herion can not be prescribed in the United States.
herion can not be prescribed in the United States.
4
As a foster parent, the children of women in prison come to my house. They are angry, sad, confused, and self-loathing (what did I do to be sent away from my mom??). They want nothing more than to be with their parents despite the hardships. I wish this country was more sensible - pay for drug addiction treatment, help these families stay together - counseling, parent training, job training, etc. - and as long as it is safe, let the families be together through this process. Research shows children do better with their family (assuming safety) than in the best foster homes. Incarceration does nothing to help.
My sincere hopes and prayers are with the women in this article. I hope you all know that many foster parents are rooting for you while we are carrying for your children. We know how much you love them and they love you and want nothing more than for all of you to be successfully together.
My sincere hopes and prayers are with the women in this article. I hope you all know that many foster parents are rooting for you while we are carrying for your children. We know how much you love them and they love you and want nothing more than for all of you to be successfully together.
43
You are a kind soul. God bless you.
1
There are roughly 1.4 million men in state and federal prisons.
There are about 110,000 women in state and federal prisons.
Men get longer sentences than women for the same crime.
Yet even though the vast majority of imprisoned people are men and men receive longer sentences the NYT thinks that we need to pay attention toward women in prison.
Hmmm.
This is like that hoary joke about the NYT headline concerning the world's end : Asteroid to strike earth! Women hit hardest!"
If there is evidence that some individual didn't commit a crime or there is bias against a particular gender in sentencing and prosecution then that is something we should all know about and fight against. But just being upset that someone with XX chromosomes is in prison? No thanks. Do the crime, do the time.
There are about 110,000 women in state and federal prisons.
Men get longer sentences than women for the same crime.
Yet even though the vast majority of imprisoned people are men and men receive longer sentences the NYT thinks that we need to pay attention toward women in prison.
Hmmm.
This is like that hoary joke about the NYT headline concerning the world's end : Asteroid to strike earth! Women hit hardest!"
If there is evidence that some individual didn't commit a crime or there is bias against a particular gender in sentencing and prosecution then that is something we should all know about and fight against. But just being upset that someone with XX chromosomes is in prison? No thanks. Do the crime, do the time.
16
"Women in Recovery programs last 17 months and cost $19,700 on average; after that, the woman is in a job, and recidivism over the next three years is just 4.9 percent. Without the program, the state might imprison the women for years at a much greater cost — and end up with a much higher recidivism rate."
This article, and its stories, are harrowing. I was astounded at the chart showing the US second in female incarcerations, just behind Thailand and many factors more than England and Wales.
I fear a man like Jeff Sessions who likely doesn't differentiate between hard crimes and crimes linked to drug and alcohol addiction. I know a lot about the latter from personal experience, and I can tell you, imprisoning an addict with no chance of joining programs that help one get--and stay--clean and sober is no answer for troubled women. Or men for that matter.
I applaud the formation of Women in Recovery, but also feel that every judicial and human services official in government should be required to take some courses in addiction. It's not a moral issue, it's a disease recognized as such by the American Medical Association.
The place for treatment is outside prison walls, not in. It's hard enough to stay sober without the complications of incarceration and absence from children. Anyone who says otherwise just doesn't appreciate the problem, and the solution.
This article, and its stories, are harrowing. I was astounded at the chart showing the US second in female incarcerations, just behind Thailand and many factors more than England and Wales.
I fear a man like Jeff Sessions who likely doesn't differentiate between hard crimes and crimes linked to drug and alcohol addiction. I know a lot about the latter from personal experience, and I can tell you, imprisoning an addict with no chance of joining programs that help one get--and stay--clean and sober is no answer for troubled women. Or men for that matter.
I applaud the formation of Women in Recovery, but also feel that every judicial and human services official in government should be required to take some courses in addiction. It's not a moral issue, it's a disease recognized as such by the American Medical Association.
The place for treatment is outside prison walls, not in. It's hard enough to stay sober without the complications of incarceration and absence from children. Anyone who says otherwise just doesn't appreciate the problem, and the solution.
17
Oh please. If they cared one whit for their children they would have been proper parents. No one is plucked off the streets. Felonies lead to prison. Learn something in there besides crying on cue.
19
Wow....how heartless
8
@Carlita: you clearly have no knowledge of, or personal experience with a dear friend or family member struggling with addiction.
15
Concern for addicts belongs with family and friends, not with the taxpayers.
6
I find it striking that this article shows a black woman in a prison jumpsuit standing in a big empty space and two white women in civilian garb, one apparently working. Is the NYT really going to resort to this type of subliminal messaging? It reminds me of the articles and news stories that always show a black face when reporting about welfare. Please don't do this. It is an obvious affront to the intelligence of your readers. I'm sure you could have found a more diverse set of images had you cared to do so.
15
Several years ago, a woman stole my mom's handbag off a coffee table at a NYC restaurant. Apparently this had happened before. This led to 2 days of anguish for my mom and her family-- chaned locks, credit cards etc. Eventually the bag was found in a garbage can, in a park, minus just the cash. "Probably for drugs" said the cops. The perps--a gang-- were never found. Was this a crime worthy of a fine and therapy or jail time? Tough cal. It sure felt like a crime though no one was touched.
10
The theft of a purse -- with a credit or debit card in it -- is grand larceny in the fourth degree in New York State. Not a tough call, at all.
6
Thanx 4 clarifying Rea.
I've had my purse stolen twice. Honestly it was an inconvenience, but I do not think the person who stole it ought to be locked up for years. Therapy would have been the better answer.
1
Thank you for the article. I worked for over 20 years as a criminal defense attorney. Today, I feel there is no justice for the poor and the black.
Unfortunately, U. S. Presidents come and go. But, the system remains the same.
Unfortunately, U. S. Presidents come and go. But, the system remains the same.
14
I would like to suggest that the reason Alisia Hunter ended up in prison was NOT because her mother ended up in prison but because her mother was a poor role model for Alisia early on in Alisia's life.
I am glad she is getting the help she needs.
I am glad she is getting the help she needs.
13
Further evidence of the massive injustices of the 3 strikes laws and horrendous prejudice in sentencing African Americans and poor people for nonviolent drug crimes.
6
There is zero recivitism for those who die in prison. 3 strikes is sound policy.
3
Nicholas,
Thank you so much I have tried to ask this in my comments for over a decade. I still don't understand what is Christian about victimising victims.
I used a lot of words but you ask the question better than I ever could in this op-ed.
I don't know what other people see when they look in the mirror.
Thank you so much I have tried to ask this in my comments for over a decade. I still don't understand what is Christian about victimising victims.
I used a lot of words but you ask the question better than I ever could in this op-ed.
I don't know what other people see when they look in the mirror.
9
Prison is a place these women who have broken the law and who have committed crimes belong.
14
I have to add something here. I have a son currently waiting on his sentence for what could be years. He is a heroin addict and a thief, thug and more. He is 25 and been in trouble half his life. What I want to add is this: never was he abused in any way. He had loving care, shelter, food and opportunity. Our family had its ups and downs, but nothing remotely resembling the situatios in this article. I often ask myself what gives with his choices, but there it is. When he is sober and motivated he is a nice guy. When loaded he is like a raccoon in the trash can. The best I can understand at this point is that heroin and meth and whatever else are SO powerful so as to dominate his conscious choice and behavior. And at the same time, however, I personally know a couple people who were drunks and addicts and somehow found what it took to change and face responsibility. I know it was hell for them to do so, but worse not to. I can only hope my son can also do so someday. I really hope he doesn't get buried in the system and lose what chance he may have.
176
Have courage.
8
We have a nephew who is all of these things. He is 29 and wearing an ankle restraint and limited to his apartment, and a few locations (like doctor visits). He is a drug addict, drug dealer and thief. He has stolen from his own family, including his frail elderly grandmother. He's a world-class grifter and liar.
I assure you, he was not abused and was raised in an upper-middle class home with every advantage. By the age of 16, he was drinking & driving, and got into a horrific crash, badly injuring his best friend (he himself walked off with no injuries) and totally his mother's car. He has never worked, and lives on SSDI at the age of 29, because of his "disability" -- he's a drug addict! Pretty sweet. Now the US government and you & I pay him to sit home, and get high all day in front of the big HDTV that he stole.
I assure you, he was not abused and was raised in an upper-middle class home with every advantage. By the age of 16, he was drinking & driving, and got into a horrific crash, badly injuring his best friend (he himself walked off with no injuries) and totally his mother's car. He has never worked, and lives on SSDI at the age of 29, because of his "disability" -- he's a drug addict! Pretty sweet. Now the US government and you & I pay him to sit home, and get high all day in front of the big HDTV that he stole.
12
Thanks for your story, Duke. People need to be reminded that misfortune can strike anyone, and that the justice and rehabilitation systems require compassion. After all, maybe it will be our kid next time.
1
Anonymity in American society might not allow the barriers of social pressure to exist that might otherwise deter a person from behavior outside of the norm. Americans seem much more to be left to their own devices and without benefit of family at an early age when they can be manipulated. Where there are strong family and neighborhood structures, such as in Europe, the problems of drugs does not seem to be as acute.
5
I think the prison populations, long term disability rolls, underemployed, unemployment rolls and unenrolled unemployed are all part of the displacement of people caused by the expert of industry to other countries. Instead of the corporations paying for the problem they have created we are being taxed to create profits for other corporations.
5
There are two separate issues here: incarceration for drug-related crimes; and children of incarcerated mothers. The first seems to me a matter of legislative reform. People who want to destroy themselves should be allowed to do so without interference. If nicotine and alcohol are legal (and now marijuana as well in several states), what is the rationale to criminalize any drug? Of course, if an addict, male or female, commits a violent crime, they should go to jail. But rehabilitation is only possible if there is a desire to do so, and it does not seem that many of these women are interested in, or capable of, changing their self-destructive course. With regard to their children: until we get rid of the idea that breeding is an inalienable human right, this cycle will continue. These women should not have children at all. Honestly, there is something to be said for the Chinese law enforcing abortion in certain cases. At the very least, the court should prescribe long-term contraception whether they want it or not.
11
I disagree with the view that people who want to destroy themselves with drugs should be left alone to do so. We live in a society, and even though our culture embraces the notion of "rugged individualism," the fact is that we are all interconnected. A serious addict is always a problem for those around him in one way or another. We also have confusion about what to do with drugs in our society. Marijuana is probably less destructive than alcohol. Nicotine doesn't contribute to car accidents and lost work days, except that it is a serious drug that endangers the health of the smoker. Some drugs should be regulated. Others, like meth and cocaine are so destructive physically and mentally that they need to be outlawed. Addicts need treatment, not jail time. As for pregnancy, free birth control nationwide was what Obama was trying to establish. Such programs are generally very successful. Looks like they will now be eliminated. Remember, it takes male participation to create a pregnancy. It's a lot easier to perform vasectomies than abortions. It's sexism in our culture that refuses to explore that as part of solutions to unwanted pregnancies. It's also wrong to judge all women who have children and end up in jail. This column shows it's not so simple. Those kids need their moms and the moms need their kids. A supportive approach would serve them and society better than the punitive one. One more thing, 1/3 of all women have been sexually molested before the age of 18.
8
Lbarken,
You want these people for neighbors? Really?
You want these people for neighbors? Really?
6
I don't perceive Kristof's compassionate attitude as condoning the harm these women inflict on their children or on society. So while I agree that journalists have a duty to verify the stories of those they interview, I don't believe it's fair to require that he verify stories if there is no existing record that these women suffered abuse. It's important to realize that so many abuse survivors do not have their "day in court". Perhaps they may not have told anyone about the abuse or their circumstances. They may have told but were not believed. Regardless, there is plenty of evidence proving that abused children suffer trauma and injury that often impedes their ability to make healthy, "sane" decisions. Those children become adults who make up a huge portion of the prison population.
As I reflect on the comments made by those who insinuate that these women fabricated stories about past abuse, I acknowledge that perhaps these readers don't know anyone who experienced life-altering abuse who didn't receive appropriate help that could have changed the course of their lives. Perhaps these readers are unaware that they do know abuse survivors. I wonder what makes these readers so confident that they would make better decisions had they experienced the same level of violence and dysfunction in their formative years that these women claim to have suffered.
Above all, I wonder what makes some people so uncomfortable with a humane corrections system.
As I reflect on the comments made by those who insinuate that these women fabricated stories about past abuse, I acknowledge that perhaps these readers don't know anyone who experienced life-altering abuse who didn't receive appropriate help that could have changed the course of their lives. Perhaps these readers are unaware that they do know abuse survivors. I wonder what makes these readers so confident that they would make better decisions had they experienced the same level of violence and dysfunction in their formative years that these women claim to have suffered.
Above all, I wonder what makes some people so uncomfortable with a humane corrections system.
45
Alternatives to incarceration are crucial, both for non-violent drug-related crimes and for the large number of prisoners who have mental illness. But, as a current article in the Boston Globe documents (The Desperate and the Dead), society won't spend money on treatment programs. And people don't get treatment in most prisons, but are made worse by the environment. We are becoming more and more like Dickensian England in treatment of poverty and crime.
19
It sounds like many of the incarcerated women grew up in violent, chaotic families, and so do not know any other way to raise their own children. The state should intervene if children are being abused or neglected. Counselors could attempt to help the parents to figure out their lives and to learn how to nurture their children. But, if the parents are unwilling or unable to change, their children should be put up for adoption. More people are willing to adopt younger children than older ones. Counselors should not be continually willing to give abusive and neglectful parents one more chance to "get themselves together”. They should do what is right for the children, and, in many cases, that is asking the courts to put them up for adoption, at as young an age as possible.
Once a woman’s children have been adopted by a stable, caring family, the woman can focus all of her energy on improving her own life. And, the children have an infinitely better chance of growing up to lead stable, productive lives instead of knowing no better than to repeat the mistakes of their biological mother.
Once a woman’s children have been adopted by a stable, caring family, the woman can focus all of her energy on improving her own life. And, the children have an infinitely better chance of growing up to lead stable, productive lives instead of knowing no better than to repeat the mistakes of their biological mother.
5
No child should leave a hospital with a drug addicted mother. Stop the down hill run of these kids before they start. Give the mother a year to reclaim her child. After a 'hair' test showing a full year of a drug free life and a two year contraception program. S--- happens, man up. Or give your child a chance....it the loving thing to do.
2
,aye it's time to think what is a crime and what is not, maybe it's time to think about saving people instead of condemning them. But alas after the elections the road will be going in the other direction, at least for 2 years, an the US can be proudly take its place on the top of the list again. The top of the list of the highest incarceration rate in World. Like it is already on the top of the list of the highest teen pregnancy rate, the lowest live expectations and the highest rate of uninsured in the developed countries
5
In the US the c-section rate is 4% in prison vs. nearly 27% in hospitals, That tells you the whole story.
2
Erik, what exactly does that tell me? There have been statistics and articles suggesting that far too many private patients are having C sections for a number of reasons: convenience of the physician and or the woman, not wanting to have the complications that occur following natural delivery such as urinary incontinence. I could go on and on.
4
erik
Thanks,
What happens if we all start talking like you?
Thanks,
What happens if we all start talking like you?
1
Why does Kristof frame this as a female problem rather than an American problem, which it is? Obviously, judges already do feel more sympathetic towards women, as men's sentence are, on average, 63% longer than women's for the same crime. It's silly to pardon women by portraying their criminal behavior as a result of the influence of a bad boyfriend or spouse, when the same thing is doubtless true of the far more numerous men in prison, who were also influenced by parents, siblings, and friends just like women.
30
The most telling statistic is the comparison with other countries: clearly something is drastically wrong in the US and mass incarceration isn't working. We share top place with Thailand because they also have "war on drugs'.
9
You are wrong. The crime rate is relatively low and non-existent is some ares because there are a lot of criminals in jail.
Nothing wrong with that at all.
Nothing wrong with that at all.
6
I once witnessed a woman inside a parked vehicle getting slapped in the face by a man twice my size ...hard. She exited the vehicle first and I asked from about ten feet away, "Are you going to be okay? If not say so now." She turned and very calmly told him "be a good idea to leave." It took a million years but he did. That little intervention could have cost me my life. I don't know if I would ever do it again bu when I read all this opinion stuff it leaves me wondering how personally invested Mr. Kristoff is and if he has ever made that same sort of decision "to do something" - to act on behalf of a woman he didn't personally know - or it is just an opinion.
11
Yes, Mr. Kristoff has.
4
I don't understand your point, except for the backslapping "good job" that you just gave yourself. Mr. Kristoff is a hero to many for his ability to bring the more painful parts of life to our attention with eloquence and empathy. If even one person gets involved or donates to one of the many programs he often highlights, then he has saved lives many times over without the violence you yourself say you may have avoided.
5
Nick, I appreciate you SO much! Addiction has GOT to be treated differently here if we ever hope to see change. Both men and women incarcerated addicts MUST receive HELP TO GET CLEAN AND REHAB THEIR LIVES instead of being condemned to the isolation and hopelessness of lock-up. When will this country learn to stop doing the same thing for the same horrific result?
21
"The end justifies the meanness." That was my initial thought about the presidential election. But it seems to also be the way too many delight in dismissing those who've made mistakes, bad choices, been bullied and manipulated by bad people, developed self destructive habits, or suffered from the cruel or random twists of fate.
Compassion, empathy and helping hands lost in this election.
Instead we will be ruled by an "Axis of Anger."
I fear things are about to become worse for the women and men struggling on the fringes and bottom rungs of this country.
Compassion, empathy and helping hands lost in this election.
Instead we will be ruled by an "Axis of Anger."
I fear things are about to become worse for the women and men struggling on the fringes and bottom rungs of this country.
13
But how could this be, the USA being a Christian, loving, forgiving contry?
5
Treating drug addition as a disease makes sense to me, but what I'm still trying to understand is why so many people are taking drugs in the first place. I presume poverty is only part of the reason. Childhood abuse definitely sounds like a plausible reason, much more so than poverty. So how do we reduce childhood abuse? Wouldn't that be getting to the root of the problem?
7
All forms of rehabilitation work when the inmate is receptive to it. And is willing to meet you half way. They have to find will power and self discipline too.
I have worked in max security prison education programs for several decades. In my experience up to 30% of the prison population really wants to turn their lives around. For them the programs discussed here (and other programs) can be of great benefit and truly help them change.
The rest don't change because they don't want to make the effort, or can't make it, regardless of the helping hand they receive. This group is tough to help, obviously.
Of course we have to have compassion for all people and truly try to offer rehab, education, training, counseling and so forth. But the problem is complicated, difficult and there are no easy answers. Of course we must keep trying, but you have to remember that huge efforts are required from both sides.
I wish all the women here, and all the women and men in prison elsewhere, the best. Keep trying to change your life. Many do want to try and help you.
I have worked in max security prison education programs for several decades. In my experience up to 30% of the prison population really wants to turn their lives around. For them the programs discussed here (and other programs) can be of great benefit and truly help them change.
The rest don't change because they don't want to make the effort, or can't make it, regardless of the helping hand they receive. This group is tough to help, obviously.
Of course we have to have compassion for all people and truly try to offer rehab, education, training, counseling and so forth. But the problem is complicated, difficult and there are no easy answers. Of course we must keep trying, but you have to remember that huge efforts are required from both sides.
I wish all the women here, and all the women and men in prison elsewhere, the best. Keep trying to change your life. Many do want to try and help you.
10
Addiction is illness that eviscerates souls and families and exacts moral and financial tolls on communities, including through expensive and counterproductive incarceration. Denying that fact and, thus, discouraging treatment does nothing to alleviate any of these burdens.
A tragic compounding of the misery can occur when an addicted woman becomes pregnant. There's an extraordinary nidus of hope in the example of UNC Horizons program of the UNC Ob/Gyn Department: The residential program there can house a woman and family for a year at well less than half the cost of incarcerating her - AND reduce the risk that her baby will be born prematurely or with a low birth weight from about 25% to 5%. https://www.med.unc.edu/tcrb/Patient_Care/unc-horizons-program
A tragic compounding of the misery can occur when an addicted woman becomes pregnant. There's an extraordinary nidus of hope in the example of UNC Horizons program of the UNC Ob/Gyn Department: The residential program there can house a woman and family for a year at well less than half the cost of incarcerating her - AND reduce the risk that her baby will be born prematurely or with a low birth weight from about 25% to 5%. https://www.med.unc.edu/tcrb/Patient_Care/unc-horizons-program
5
RE: Of all America’s various policy missteps in my lifetime, perhaps the most catastrophic was mass incarceration. It has had devastating consequences for families, and it costs the average American household $600 a year.
Wrong. Mass incarceration has kept crime rates low. Drugs are not non violent offenses. Talk to DEA agents who are targets for the drug gangs. How do you think junkies get money to pay for their habit? They hold people up and hold ups go back. But yes prisons costs too much they should be outsourced to Mexico. Janany Manning is hardly a responsible parent. So the daughter better off with the mother in prison. The biggest policy mistakes were those of the "Great Society" which created the perfect environment for the creation of a permanent underclass of criminals.
Wrong. Mass incarceration has kept crime rates low. Drugs are not non violent offenses. Talk to DEA agents who are targets for the drug gangs. How do you think junkies get money to pay for their habit? They hold people up and hold ups go back. But yes prisons costs too much they should be outsourced to Mexico. Janany Manning is hardly a responsible parent. So the daughter better off with the mother in prison. The biggest policy mistakes were those of the "Great Society" which created the perfect environment for the creation of a permanent underclass of criminals.
12
They hold people up and hold ups go back. Should say hold ups go BAD as do burglaries.
Too many Republicans would rather pay for prisons than pay for preschool.
20
What does preschool have to do with this? Free preschool has come and gone in this country over the past 50 years. Has anyone actually tracked the corelation (if any) between having gone to free preschool, vs having lived a mentally healthy, and clean and sober life? Just curious.
6
You reap the benefit of a low crime rate.
6
True. Where is the republican value of pro-life once the life enters this world?
Having worked in prisons for over two decades, the most striking comment I heard was from a female prisoner who asked: "How do you know how to love, when you've never been loved?" For many years I have remarked that crime is not just a "big city" problem. It is everyone's problem. If for no other reason than your pocket book--because we all pay for jails and prisons. Society must place a priority on "our" kids, because it is more likely to have positive results at an early age, rather than spending the same amount, or more, later on incarceration.
Remember the "Golden" rule: "Them's that got the gold, make the rules." Too many republicans want to PROFIT from private prisons. It benefits their bottom line when there are too many prisoners for the public institutions to house. The private prisons do not place much priority on rehabilitation. That cuts into profits (too expensive) and reduces the probability of repeat business.
Trauma changes neural connections. These children didn't ask to be born into these circumstances. They still love their families and often are best served maintaining those relationships.
What can one individual do to help? Support such programs as Women in Recovery or Kids Need Moms. Think about the possibility of mentoring young families. Get some training and follow through.
Having worked in prisons for over two decades, the most striking comment I heard was from a female prisoner who asked: "How do you know how to love, when you've never been loved?" For many years I have remarked that crime is not just a "big city" problem. It is everyone's problem. If for no other reason than your pocket book--because we all pay for jails and prisons. Society must place a priority on "our" kids, because it is more likely to have positive results at an early age, rather than spending the same amount, or more, later on incarceration.
Remember the "Golden" rule: "Them's that got the gold, make the rules." Too many republicans want to PROFIT from private prisons. It benefits their bottom line when there are too many prisoners for the public institutions to house. The private prisons do not place much priority on rehabilitation. That cuts into profits (too expensive) and reduces the probability of repeat business.
Trauma changes neural connections. These children didn't ask to be born into these circumstances. They still love their families and often are best served maintaining those relationships.
What can one individual do to help? Support such programs as Women in Recovery or Kids Need Moms. Think about the possibility of mentoring young families. Get some training and follow through.
4
Thank you for turning the spotlight on incarcerated women. In the recent bipartisan efforts to do something about the incarceration epidemic in this country, I have not heard much about the women in the system. I have worked in a jail in psychoeducation for almost 9 years, and the stories the women in your article tell completely align with the trauma-and-addiction narratives that I have heard from women inmates. Gender matters in the incarceration issue. Women who have suffered trauma, particularly childhood sexual trauma, are much more likely than their male counterparts to use hard drugs. To those who say these women were only victims when they were children but as adults must deal with the consequences of their actions, I would say: trauma in childhood arrests emotional development. We need more programs like Women in Recovery. Trying to stop this cycle of abuse, trauma, and addiction is the only humane thing to do. It is puzzling to me that in a country that purports to have Christian values, it is so hard for people to see that the incarceration of traumatized addicts is not in line with those values.
12
Sometimes I get more from the comments than the actual article. This is another case of that. This article is consistent with research regarding women and trauma. An extremely high proportion of women who end up in prison have experienced significant trauma in their lifetimes. I've read the comments, some of which are appalling in that they attempt to simplify an issue that is not simple on any level. After a lifetime of abuse, standing up to your abuser is not easy. Many women in this circumstance have had such little support in their lifetimes that they have very little faith in themselves and have no idea of their inner strength and resilience.
With programs such as the one in this article, there is always criteria in place to ensure that people who pose a safety risk to the community are not given a program as an option. The reality of this is that sure, the USA can continue its pattern of mass incarceration without a substantive rehabilitative focus and recidivism rates will continue to be sky high and cost taxpayers billions--or can invest in rehab programs that are geared to break the cycle of addiction and save money and lives.
I understand this from a very different perspective. I was one of these women. I am now sober for many years, with a family, a career as a Social Worker and truly rehabilitated. But it wasn't easy. It is hard to believe in yourself when you've been told for years you don't matter.
With programs such as the one in this article, there is always criteria in place to ensure that people who pose a safety risk to the community are not given a program as an option. The reality of this is that sure, the USA can continue its pattern of mass incarceration without a substantive rehabilitative focus and recidivism rates will continue to be sky high and cost taxpayers billions--or can invest in rehab programs that are geared to break the cycle of addiction and save money and lives.
I understand this from a very different perspective. I was one of these women. I am now sober for many years, with a family, a career as a Social Worker and truly rehabilitated. But it wasn't easy. It is hard to believe in yourself when you've been told for years you don't matter.
105
All our sympathies should go to the children. There is none left for these narcissistic and irresponsible women who, knowing they cannot take care of themselves, freely choose to have children and destroy their lives too.
14
I created a program and conduct it called LADIES OF SUCCESS, at the Ohio Reformatory for Women, a prison in Ohio. Some might think it frivolous.....5 sessions on how to be a lady. The nuns in my schools took us little, what one called RAGAMUFFINS, from the West Side of Columbus and taught us the secret codes to success...how to present ourselves to others, speaking properly, problem solving without arrests, etiquette focussing on WHAT WOULD JACKIE KENNEDY AND MICHELLE OBAMA DO?! And gratitude, have a good attitude. Believe me, these women have never had these lessons, which the nuns in my school taught me. Can the lessons cure their ills? No. Can their lessons save their lives? Yes! self discipline is at the heart of the lessons.
16
Anyone with a heart must respond to an article like this with sympathy. But let's clarify a few things:
1. Drugs - "That scorn derives partly from a misunderstanding of drug abuse, which is a central reason for mass female incarceration in America (and a major reason for mass incarceration of men as well, although to a lesser degree)."
That's simply untrue. Almost 2/3 of prisoners are incarcerated for violent crime or property crime.
http://felonvoting.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=004339
2. Women - Should we be more lenient because a crime is committed by a woman ? On one hand, that makes sense. Women are far less likely to commit crime (especially violent crime) than men. But do you really want to make judgements about people based on their gender or color ?
3. Society - "Even well-meaning help is sometimes rejected, for we humans have an astonishing capacity for self-destructive behavior — just as society does, with policies like mass incarceration."
Their stories are tragic. And it sounds like the men in these women's lives are as much if not more to blame. But doesn't society have a right to protect itself and enforce its laws ?
Of course, the real victims here are the children of these mothers. These women sound like they were just kids when the abuse started. But shouldn't a core point here to only have children when you are married and ready to do so. Where's a program for that ?
1. Drugs - "That scorn derives partly from a misunderstanding of drug abuse, which is a central reason for mass female incarceration in America (and a major reason for mass incarceration of men as well, although to a lesser degree)."
That's simply untrue. Almost 2/3 of prisoners are incarcerated for violent crime or property crime.
http://felonvoting.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=004339
2. Women - Should we be more lenient because a crime is committed by a woman ? On one hand, that makes sense. Women are far less likely to commit crime (especially violent crime) than men. But do you really want to make judgements about people based on their gender or color ?
3. Society - "Even well-meaning help is sometimes rejected, for we humans have an astonishing capacity for self-destructive behavior — just as society does, with policies like mass incarceration."
Their stories are tragic. And it sounds like the men in these women's lives are as much if not more to blame. But doesn't society have a right to protect itself and enforce its laws ?
Of course, the real victims here are the children of these mothers. These women sound like they were just kids when the abuse started. But shouldn't a core point here to only have children when you are married and ready to do so. Where's a program for that ?
14
Sorry. If getting pregnant wasn't enough motivation for you to get clean, then I guess the one of the few people impressed with your tears is Mr. Kristoff. But then, he's never met a sob story that didn't choke him up.
The people I know who permanent quit using addictive substances just quit. It wasn't comfortable, it wasn't easy, but they cared enough about something to do it. Motivation is everything, for everything in life.
It's just not true that people are doomed to repeat what was done to them. We all--except the profoundly disabled--have choice and agency.
The most recent entry in the NY Times' series on murders in Chicago focused on a woman who'd lost her 15-year-old to a shooting. A woman who'd had a succession of children--each by a different father. When a boyfriend went to jail, she moved on to the next, who fathered a kid and then went to prison...
If you don't learn from the consequences of lousy choices, a wealth of social services won't save you. Certainly our society should invest better in its citizens. But many of us have struggled towards maturity and wisdom without the assistance of Big Brother, have recognized we need to be responsible for what we do.
The quote beneath this story's headline is telling. The chance to get sober in prison was a gift. Sorry it wasn't enough for you. But that's not on us.
The people I know who permanent quit using addictive substances just quit. It wasn't comfortable, it wasn't easy, but they cared enough about something to do it. Motivation is everything, for everything in life.
It's just not true that people are doomed to repeat what was done to them. We all--except the profoundly disabled--have choice and agency.
The most recent entry in the NY Times' series on murders in Chicago focused on a woman who'd lost her 15-year-old to a shooting. A woman who'd had a succession of children--each by a different father. When a boyfriend went to jail, she moved on to the next, who fathered a kid and then went to prison...
If you don't learn from the consequences of lousy choices, a wealth of social services won't save you. Certainly our society should invest better in its citizens. But many of us have struggled towards maturity and wisdom without the assistance of Big Brother, have recognized we need to be responsible for what we do.
The quote beneath this story's headline is telling. The chance to get sober in prison was a gift. Sorry it wasn't enough for you. But that's not on us.
14
Buried deep in the previous post was the statement, "Certainly our society should invest better in its citizens." If was presented as an aside. Nearly five hundred years ago John Bradford said, "There but for the grace of God go I." His words are an apt response.
2
@ SCA NH
"The chance to get sober in prison was a gift. Sorry it wasn't enough for you. But that's not on us."
No? Should we then with tight lipped righteousness condemn these women to perpetuate the violence they suffered, on their own off spring, producing on going generations of misfits. Is that as a society, the way to go? Squandering billions of dollars on antiquated social programs that perpetuate bloated bureaucracies that suck us taxpayers and I'm sure you are one of them, dry? Should we let these wrongs continue so that you can beat your chest and feel superior and at the same time helplessly wronged as a tax payer supporting the entire madness? Or should we start looking at our society as so interconnected that working solutions we be created. The system we have is so based on personal greed (us verses them) that it would take an earth shattering shift in our thinking to make those necessary changes. Yes, it is on us, to help those who have been stepped on by the machinery of, class system, race, greed and hypocritical righteousness.
"The chance to get sober in prison was a gift. Sorry it wasn't enough for you. But that's not on us."
No? Should we then with tight lipped righteousness condemn these women to perpetuate the violence they suffered, on their own off spring, producing on going generations of misfits. Is that as a society, the way to go? Squandering billions of dollars on antiquated social programs that perpetuate bloated bureaucracies that suck us taxpayers and I'm sure you are one of them, dry? Should we let these wrongs continue so that you can beat your chest and feel superior and at the same time helplessly wronged as a tax payer supporting the entire madness? Or should we start looking at our society as so interconnected that working solutions we be created. The system we have is so based on personal greed (us verses them) that it would take an earth shattering shift in our thinking to make those necessary changes. Yes, it is on us, to help those who have been stepped on by the machinery of, class system, race, greed and hypocritical righteousness.
3
My sympathy ends at my wallet. I grew up in a run down apartment building in Queens in the bad old days of NYC, attended dangerous public schools (was slashed with a knife at age five and was beaten and robbed on the Subway at fourteen), was bamboozled into enlisting on my 18th birthday and have worked a minimum wage job for over three decades. But then, I don't have a sense of entitlement.
3
Women's incarceration for non-violent crimes is a huge crisis; sure hope there is a sense of urgency so that rehabilitation can be made out of jail. The cost to yhese women and her family, and to society is enormous. What were/are we thinking?
3
"Two-thirds of women are in state prisons for nonviolent offenses."
Incarceration rarely is a solution to any problem, though sometimes it is a necessary evil.
But imprisonment for non violent offenses is an overreaction. Community services and rehab programs are more productive to women, especially those with children.
We must rethink our incarceration policy for women : Ivanka Trump, are you listening ?
Incarceration rarely is a solution to any problem, though sometimes it is a necessary evil.
But imprisonment for non violent offenses is an overreaction. Community services and rehab programs are more productive to women, especially those with children.
We must rethink our incarceration policy for women : Ivanka Trump, are you listening ?
12
No, womens punishment should be equal to a man's punishment.
Equality for all.
Equality for all.
8
Can't agree with you more, @Ryan Bingham.
Logically, equality for all, is just.
Emotionally, women in distress tug at our hearts more than men in the similar situations. Does that make us sexist ? No, It makes us human.
Logically, equality for all, is just.
Emotionally, women in distress tug at our hearts more than men in the similar situations. Does that make us sexist ? No, It makes us human.
I am reading Mr. Kristoff's book, co-authored with his wife, Sheryl DuWann, "Half the Sky". It is truly the best, and most thought-provoking book that I have ever read.
The book describes the many, many ways in which less-privileged societies keep women down. In America, it appears that we do much the same thin; however, our methods, such as Mass Incarceration, might even be more horrific. That's because, in our self-righteous superiority, we punish the children, as well.
https://thetruthoncommonsense.com
The book describes the many, many ways in which less-privileged societies keep women down. In America, it appears that we do much the same thin; however, our methods, such as Mass Incarceration, might even be more horrific. That's because, in our self-righteous superiority, we punish the children, as well.
https://thetruthoncommonsense.com
12
I am a spiritual director at the women's prison in Denver. I have been volunteering there for 12 years and hope I have the opportunity to continue for 12 more. It's very easy to point fingers at these women; yes, some have harmed their children and some have harmed others. When I sit with a woman (some I have been in relationship for 7 years) and hear her story I can't help but wonder what I would do, under the same circumstances. Most have been sexually, physically and emotionally abused, some as early as age 3. One woman was sexually abused by her mother's boyfriend and taken out of home, lived in foster home after foster home, being sexually, physically and emotionally abused in each one and then was married to a man who was physically and emotionally abusive. Under these conditions, can you say what you would do? Do you know, for certain, that you would have the self respect that you would need to become empowered enough to try to make it on your own? You simply cannot know that. They are more than the worst thing they have done, as we all are.
191
See film Moonlight! The mother of the main character. Heart wrenching.
Connie,
thank you for your work, I know it's importance, but you're asking the wrong question.
Yes, anyone can be broken. Some are resilient enough to overcome the misfortune, others aren't. The resilient move on, the rest perish, and this is all there is to it.
Life can be a meat grinder for some, it's in its nature, and this is how it's supposed to be.
thank you for your work, I know it's importance, but you're asking the wrong question.
Yes, anyone can be broken. Some are resilient enough to overcome the misfortune, others aren't. The resilient move on, the rest perish, and this is all there is to it.
Life can be a meat grinder for some, it's in its nature, and this is how it's supposed to be.
2
My heart cries for these women. They were once babies and little children who got corrupted by others through no fault of their own. We owe them a second chance and this program seems to be helping them adjust to a life they've never had before. I wish them luck and strength in their journey.
57
This is where you're making a big mistake, BJ
"We owe them a second chance."
This psychology of entitlement only perpetuates the cycle. No, we owe them nothing. They owe us big: the legal cost, the warehousing cost, the healthcare cost.
Your attitude fosters the sense of entitlement in some of them, not all (it's not a guess on my part but knowledge). The sense of entitlement inhibits their agency and responsibility, and fosters dependence - the worst gift for an addict.
"We owe them a second chance."
This psychology of entitlement only perpetuates the cycle. No, we owe them nothing. They owe us big: the legal cost, the warehousing cost, the healthcare cost.
Your attitude fosters the sense of entitlement in some of them, not all (it's not a guess on my part but knowledge). The sense of entitlement inhibits their agency and responsibility, and fosters dependence - the worst gift for an addict.
5
Their ages are 29, 31 and 39 -- they are no longer "babies".
3
Beautiful and heartbreaking story Nicholas. Thank you.
2
Keeping these women out of prison may help in the short term. However, the only way we will see real benefits is to put a stop to the disordered thinking that got them there in the first place. Ladies, start standing up for yourselves! You don't need to affiliate with a sorry man to give your life value. Stop sleeping with men who don't care about you and won't marry you. Stop having children with men who don't care about you or the kids. Stop supporting men who don't work legal jobs. Stop letting them use your home as a stopover on the way to the drug hole or the next woman. Stop putting money on their books when they go to jail. Stop fighting other women over them. Figure out what you like and what you want to do with your life. Seek help for your problems first. Only then do you have room in your life for people who aren't going to drag you backwards.
83
Easy to say when you've had the stable upbringing you most likely had. Just reread the stories about how these women grew up, put yourself in their position, and maybe you won't be so ready to moralize.
6
A more tone-deaf response I can't imagine. Everyone -- the women in this column and scores like them -- is needful and deserving of compassion and help to make progress. Dictates, though well-intentioned, don't help.
We all stand on the shoulders of our parents, friends, families, and communities. No one who considers him or herself a success did it alone.
We all stand on the shoulders of our parents, friends, families, and communities. No one who considers him or herself a success did it alone.
1
Perhaps you missed the part about Tulsa's intensive cognitive restructuring that goes along with the drug treatment. That is what helps these women: not someone braying and blaming them for their "disordered thinking", but an effective program that actually teaches them how to do change it.
1
Part II: All the people hurt by these criminals.
28
I landed on Rikers Island and thought I was in Hell.
If it made you never want to go back then maybe it worked.
8
Common sense works - duh!
5
There you go again...at the top of the ladder or like snakes and ladders falling down to the bottom!...is there something wrong in your country?..rich but lacking in compassion!
4
Hey, Nick, I don't mean to detract from the seriousness of the issue you're raising here, but what really jumped out at me in this column was "I know some of you are glaring at this article and thinking: It’s their own fault." You've been doing this a *lot* lately, painting a picture of your readers as less enlightened than yourself. I'm guessing this is your particular form of coping with the whole Trump thing, and you probably don't even notice you're doing it. But it's really getting annoying. I read you because you know more details than I do about *issues I care about*! My guess is that that's true for most of your readers. Stop picking on us. (I'd send this as an email instead of a public comment if only you published your email address like your colleague Mr. Blow.)
25
After reading many of the other comments, I think Nick has a point. I get the sense many readers ARE glaring at the article and thinking "it's their own fault." A stable family and a good education helped me develop the motivation and skills that have enabled me to have a successful life. I sincerely doubt I'd be in the same place today if I'd grown up in poverty with drug-addicted or abusive relatives. Some people succeed in spite of the odds, but generally there's someone - a relative, a teacher, etc., who reaches out to them. I wonder if the women mentioned in this article had anyone willing to do that. Of course we should have compassion for the victims of crime, but isn't it possible to also have compassion for these women and the children they've left behind? Compassion is not a zero sum game.
4
Brian, I agree to an extent, and also read the column regularly. If you look through some of the comments here, you will notice that there are regular or first-time readers. who don't mind the incarcerations for non-violent crimes, especially for blacks and Latinos. I just feel that Mr. Kristof is pointing-out the futility of people who--if they read, and understood the column--would not take exception, and go back to whatever they...DO.
1
But it is "their own fault".
No one makes any woman have a child nor do they make them use drugs or rob and steal.
Or is this more of the bigotry of low expectations that the elite love to trot out to explain why society cannot expect civilized behavior from 'underprivileged' people?
No one makes any woman have a child nor do they make them use drugs or rob and steal.
Or is this more of the bigotry of low expectations that the elite love to trot out to explain why society cannot expect civilized behavior from 'underprivileged' people?
4
Thank you for another great article, Kristof.
5
Yeah we get it. Mug, use drugs, rob -- you're a victim.
Get mugged or robbed by someone using drugs -- you're someone without compassion and the real problem in our society.
Get mugged or robbed by someone using drugs -- you're someone without compassion and the real problem in our society.
35
No, you don't get it at all. Try reading the article.
8
Have you learned absolutely NOTHING from the ROLLING STONE/UVA scandal?
Assuming no fabrication or outright lies, two words:
CONFIRMATION BIAS
Kristoff should come to his oft-mentioned home state of Oregon and see that either women are genetically far superior to men in terms of criminal behavior or we simply choose to incarcerate women at a vastly lower rate for the same exact crimes committed by men.
America imprison less than 10% of state inmates (the vast majority of prisoners for drug crimes) are in prison for drug felonies.
I certainly did NOT vote for Trump and did for Obama twice but his commutathon of people convicted of dealing mass amounts of meth and heroin. often armed with firearms, can hardly be described as "non violent, victim-less crimes." Tell that to the dead kids' parents, both in poor white America, communities of color, or even wealthier parts of America (although their kids have better ways of getting sober than prison),
Assuming no fabrication or outright lies, two words:
CONFIRMATION BIAS
Kristoff should come to his oft-mentioned home state of Oregon and see that either women are genetically far superior to men in terms of criminal behavior or we simply choose to incarcerate women at a vastly lower rate for the same exact crimes committed by men.
America imprison less than 10% of state inmates (the vast majority of prisoners for drug crimes) are in prison for drug felonies.
I certainly did NOT vote for Trump and did for Obama twice but his commutathon of people convicted of dealing mass amounts of meth and heroin. often armed with firearms, can hardly be described as "non violent, victim-less crimes." Tell that to the dead kids' parents, both in poor white America, communities of color, or even wealthier parts of America (although their kids have better ways of getting sober than prison),
16
I believe that Mr. Kristoff's point is that incarceration just breeds further incarceration, whereas rehabilitation might lead to a person breaking the stereotype.
In fact, it is an inter-generational revolving door. And it hits the very poor, black and Latinos hardest. Meanwhile, the Stanford swim team member served, what, a month or two for rape.
Go read Rolling Stone; but, even there, you will find writers with opposing viewpoints on possible solutions. When these women are incarcerated, the Ex-Con stigma can keep them out of even some community colleges, make it harder getting a job or a loan, and the children reap the contagion--by also, in many cases, be destined to remain impoverished--and in trouble.
https://thetruthoncommonsense.com
In fact, it is an inter-generational revolving door. And it hits the very poor, black and Latinos hardest. Meanwhile, the Stanford swim team member served, what, a month or two for rape.
Go read Rolling Stone; but, even there, you will find writers with opposing viewpoints on possible solutions. When these women are incarcerated, the Ex-Con stigma can keep them out of even some community colleges, make it harder getting a job or a loan, and the children reap the contagion--by also, in many cases, be destined to remain impoverished--and in trouble.
https://thetruthoncommonsense.com
4
Fathers are in prision, too.
11
Not to mention male inmates notified of their beautiful new child after serving over a year without one word from home.
7
Nicholas Kristof - so how could this program be "scaled up"?
3
Thank you, Mr. Kristof. It is far time that the US joined other nations in seeking rehabilitative, rather than punitive, measures.
10
Oh god, not again. Don't want to go to jail? Do what the rest of us do. Avoid committing crimes.
I don't care about the kids. They are tomorrow's problem. We have to stop paying for this kind of behavior.
I don't care about the kids. They are tomorrow's problem. We have to stop paying for this kind of behavior.
12
Unless you are 90 "tomorrow's problem" is also going to be yours. You were probably fortunate enough to have nurturing or semi-nurturing parents. Kids who don't are lost in the wilderness. They don't KNOW what the choices are, let alone how to choose. They are just little balls of pain who grow up to be bigger balls of pain. Society doesn't seem to understand that people don't just use drugs for "fun"--they use them for pain relief. For a few hours respite from a life that doesn't make any sense. To reach the children before they get to the stage where they care about no one because no one cares about them, we have to start with the mothers. Every incarcerated mother in the US should have access to parenting classes, to understand there really are right and wrong ways to raise children. Most of them don't really want their kids to repeat their mistakes--they just don't have the knowledge to make it different.
95
Not only should these women have parenting classes, but they also need good mothers-substitutes, themselves. Someone to encourage them, someone to trust, someone to advise them, someone to tell them that they have value and worth and are not bad clear down to the bone. Odd are that their own mothers couldn't or wouldn't provide good mothering, and these women can't pass on what they never knew themselves.
7
There are two kinds of people. Those who care and those who care only after it personally affects them. I hope you never find yourself in that position.
5
If you abuse children the outcome will probably be bad.
5
Sorry.
If you do the crime you do the time.
You say these women did not do a crime that should have ended them in jail.
That is your opinion.
Why should we accept your opinion when all you report is from the perspective of these women.
I would like to hear from someone who does not start with the idea there is a mass incarceration.
Most of this article I do not believe.
Most of the article is hearsay.
You say a woman was in prison for drug offenses.
In my book if she sold drugs to minors she should be locked up.
You would say it was a non violent because she didn't use a weapon.
To me if one kid was harmed by taking those drugs she is to be blamed and while there was no violence there was a victim.
So many of these non violent criminals should be in prison because of what they did.
So why are these victims not mentioned in this article.
It's because Nicholas KIristof doesn't want us to know the real truth.
He wants to portray these women as the victims.
I f he wants me to sympathies with these women I need to know the whole story.
That would mean real journalism.
Something the Times does not do anymore.
They treat us like idiots and are shocked when we ignore what they print.
This is why Hillary lost even when Trump was under constant attack from the left.
If you really want to change how people feel give them the facts and t then let them decide what is right and what is wrong.
If you do the crime you do the time.
You say these women did not do a crime that should have ended them in jail.
That is your opinion.
Why should we accept your opinion when all you report is from the perspective of these women.
I would like to hear from someone who does not start with the idea there is a mass incarceration.
Most of this article I do not believe.
Most of the article is hearsay.
You say a woman was in prison for drug offenses.
In my book if she sold drugs to minors she should be locked up.
You would say it was a non violent because she didn't use a weapon.
To me if one kid was harmed by taking those drugs she is to be blamed and while there was no violence there was a victim.
So many of these non violent criminals should be in prison because of what they did.
So why are these victims not mentioned in this article.
It's because Nicholas KIristof doesn't want us to know the real truth.
He wants to portray these women as the victims.
I f he wants me to sympathies with these women I need to know the whole story.
That would mean real journalism.
Something the Times does not do anymore.
They treat us like idiots and are shocked when we ignore what they print.
This is why Hillary lost even when Trump was under constant attack from the left.
If you really want to change how people feel give them the facts and t then let them decide what is right and what is wrong.
21
According to lefty liberalism...and the tenets of "victimization"....a junkie thief and prostitute selling heroin on the streets to children, is pure and innocent compared to an ordinary working person who pays taxes and follows the law, but who dares to vote for a non-lefty candidate.
2
Addiction-related crime and actually most crimes should be addressed by rehabilitation programs like these that actually work. But prison has become an industrial complex type of enterprise in the U.S. My uncle in the U.S. was training convicts to do home renovation work and when he was successful in getting these man jobs after being released he basically got fired because they eliminated the program! Apparently the company running the prison wants repeat customers.
3
While I appreciated the spirit of this article and generally agree with the sentiments, I found the quality of the journalism somewhat lacking. The article was mostly anecdotal, and opportunities to support anecdotal evidence with statistics - the type of information that may actually sway a non-believer - were largely overlooked. For example, this passage:
"Women in Recovery programs last 17 months and cost $19,700 on average; after that, the woman is in a job, and recidivism over the next three years is just 4.9 percent. Without the program, the state might imprison the women for years at a much greater cost — and end up with a much higher recidivism rate."
This is a pretty hasty generalization. The author needs to be able to support the last sentence with facts and figures, rather than just jumping to an unsupported conclusion.
Articles like this tug at the heart strings, which really only serves to draw in people who are already sympathetic to women in prison for nonviolent crimes. But we want to change the hearts and minds of people like Jeff Sessions, which requires more than a few sad stories - stories that the author admits cannot be verified.
"Women in Recovery programs last 17 months and cost $19,700 on average; after that, the woman is in a job, and recidivism over the next three years is just 4.9 percent. Without the program, the state might imprison the women for years at a much greater cost — and end up with a much higher recidivism rate."
This is a pretty hasty generalization. The author needs to be able to support the last sentence with facts and figures, rather than just jumping to an unsupported conclusion.
Articles like this tug at the heart strings, which really only serves to draw in people who are already sympathetic to women in prison for nonviolent crimes. But we want to change the hearts and minds of people like Jeff Sessions, which requires more than a few sad stories - stories that the author admits cannot be verified.
14
Wow. It's all the fault of those bad boyfriends, huh?
Anyone warn Mr. Kristoff how manipulative and persuasive addicts are? Even "clean" ones?
We've had previous examples of Mr. Kristoff's lack of rigor in reporting poignant stories starring heartrending protagonists.
As humans we are prey to many diseases which require the patient to rigorously follow treatment protocols in order to achieve a reasonably good quality of life. The diabetic who gorges on candy and constantly ends up in the ER deserves the same level of tender sympathy as the addict who indulges in his or her cravings of choice. One has no control over the feeling of craving something, but one can choose to indulge it, or not. It's not easy but it is possible, and life isn't easy for most of us.
As the child of an abusive alcoholic, as someone whose best friend, at one point in my life, was a friendly neighborhood drug dealer, as someone who made bad choices and readily acknowledges that I survived them by the grace of God, I still also know that at some point we must take responsibility for our own choices and desire to live differently. I'd love to inhabit that perfect world where society provided everything every person needs to live the optimal life. That world isn't coming.
The dreadful lives of the children of incarcerated women aren't because of the big bad jailer. They are because of the woman who didn't consider motherhood anything worthy changing her life for.
Anyone warn Mr. Kristoff how manipulative and persuasive addicts are? Even "clean" ones?
We've had previous examples of Mr. Kristoff's lack of rigor in reporting poignant stories starring heartrending protagonists.
As humans we are prey to many diseases which require the patient to rigorously follow treatment protocols in order to achieve a reasonably good quality of life. The diabetic who gorges on candy and constantly ends up in the ER deserves the same level of tender sympathy as the addict who indulges in his or her cravings of choice. One has no control over the feeling of craving something, but one can choose to indulge it, or not. It's not easy but it is possible, and life isn't easy for most of us.
As the child of an abusive alcoholic, as someone whose best friend, at one point in my life, was a friendly neighborhood drug dealer, as someone who made bad choices and readily acknowledges that I survived them by the grace of God, I still also know that at some point we must take responsibility for our own choices and desire to live differently. I'd love to inhabit that perfect world where society provided everything every person needs to live the optimal life. That world isn't coming.
The dreadful lives of the children of incarcerated women aren't because of the big bad jailer. They are because of the woman who didn't consider motherhood anything worthy changing her life for.
26
I am not a drug addict so I have no first-hand experience with this, but it is my understanding that one's addiction, be it to drugs, alcohol, gambling, sex, cross-dressing, coffee, cigarettes, vaping, video-games or whatever, takes precedence over everything else, be it spouses, children, jobs, reputation, self-respect, etc. This doesn't excuse it, but it does make it extremely hard to beat, especially without encouragement and help, and especially if you're surrounded by other people who are similarly addicted.
2
The diabetic who gorges on candy? Are you kidding me? What is it with the constant mantra of hatred towards people with diabetes?
You can eat candy until you are blue in the face, but if you do not have the genetic pre-disposition for diabetes, you will never get it.
I've seen diabetics in the hospital for a host of reasons, but NEVER for "gorging on candy". You clearly know nothing about the disease.
Diabetes is a disease of the ENDOCRINE system. It is not punishment for eating candy or liking sweets. Most diabetics are not fat. Obesity does not cause Type II diabetes.
On the other hand....there is no predisposition for shooting up heroin, or selling drugs on the street. That is a moral behavior.
You can eat candy until you are blue in the face, but if you do not have the genetic pre-disposition for diabetes, you will never get it.
I've seen diabetics in the hospital for a host of reasons, but NEVER for "gorging on candy". You clearly know nothing about the disease.
Diabetes is a disease of the ENDOCRINE system. It is not punishment for eating candy or liking sweets. Most diabetics are not fat. Obesity does not cause Type II diabetes.
On the other hand....there is no predisposition for shooting up heroin, or selling drugs on the street. That is a moral behavior.
2
Concerned Citizen: You did not understand my point--that it is the responsibility of a person with a chronic disease to follow treatment protocols. We cannot provide lifelong supervision to every person--at some point personal agency is involved in achieving a healthy life or as close to one as possible. If addiction is a chronic disease, as so many professionals insist, then the patient must do his or her part too.
3
We are too harsh with non-violent crimes and way to lenient with violent criminals.
I think we could get a consensus on criminal justice reform if one side was willing to admit that there are some very dangerous and violent people out there- and that our rights to live in safety must take precedence over their 'right' to be endlessly released to hurt more people.
And maybe we can ask people to only have children they can care for- financially and emotionally.
No one should be having a child at 16 years old.
I think we could get a consensus on criminal justice reform if one side was willing to admit that there are some very dangerous and violent people out there- and that our rights to live in safety must take precedence over their 'right' to be endlessly released to hurt more people.
And maybe we can ask people to only have children they can care for- financially and emotionally.
No one should be having a child at 16 years old.
9
The liberals made unwed / teenage motherhood socially acceptable and actually rewards poor women for breeding. They get food stamps, welfare, housing vouchers, school meals for the kids, etc...
9
Someone should note that the incarceration of nonviolent offenders, both male and female, most likely has an economic basis -- first, in our terrible privatized prisons-for-profit scheme, and second in the slave labor that prisoners can be made to perform for many industries, from calling centers to manufacturing license plates. If the wealthy did not profit from the criminalization of minor and nonviolent offenses, we wouldn't see these people in jail.
8
Having personally know two children whose grandmother was given full custody while the childrens' mother was in prison, only to have that custody yanked away when the mother was released- only to see those children who were doing well for two years be plunged back into a criminal lifestyle that ended with one dead and the other in prison himself, I am less concerned with the mother than I am the children. This is not an unusual story.
36
I am seeing this with dear friends. Their 24 year old daughter is a drug addict and petty criminal. She lost custody of her infant daughter, and the grandparents -- in their early 60s and hoping to retire soon -- are now raising the toddler. The mother gets out of rehab, wants the child back -- the courts give her custody AGAIN -- she messes up, does drugs, leaves the child unattended in dirty diapers with no food in an unheated apartment -- Children's services takes the child away -- the grandparents end up BACK IN COURT to get custody AGAIN. This has happened like 4 times in a row, and the poor child is only 2.5 years old. At what point, does society say "enough is enough"?
5
This is why liberals lose elections.
While I don't believe in long prison sentences for minor offenses, drug is and should continue to be a crime. Someone who robs someone deserves punishment, not a sob story whining we're not being nice enough to her. I've been mugged multiple times including at gunpoint. Where is your sympathy for the victims who often endure years of flashbacks and fear long after the crime has been committed?
While I don't believe in long prison sentences for minor offenses, drug is and should continue to be a crime. Someone who robs someone deserves punishment, not a sob story whining we're not being nice enough to her. I've been mugged multiple times including at gunpoint. Where is your sympathy for the victims who often endure years of flashbacks and fear long after the crime has been committed?
16
People like Kristof can afford to take taxis and car service and live in safe neighborhoods. He and people like him are not at risk for mugging. So they need to pat themselves on the back for being progressive by sympathizes with criminals. He (and de Blasio) don't care about the waitress or nurse who takes the subway home at 2 in the morning when her shift ends.
13
I've worked with both women and men who are in prison. It may sound cold, but the best way to help most of these women is to do everything possible to prevent them from being born in the first place.
Their lives prior to being incarcerated are almost universally horrific. Sexual and physical abuse, as well as severe neglect, is the norm. And these women almost all give birth to another generation of criminals who also suffer through terrible childhoods.
Federally fund long acting birth control and provide and incentive for children - yes children- that become of childbearing age to use it. Stop worrying about the right-wing arguments about "personal responsibility" and start looking at how pathetic it is that we insist children be born to suffer.
Their lives prior to being incarcerated are almost universally horrific. Sexual and physical abuse, as well as severe neglect, is the norm. And these women almost all give birth to another generation of criminals who also suffer through terrible childhoods.
Federally fund long acting birth control and provide and incentive for children - yes children- that become of childbearing age to use it. Stop worrying about the right-wing arguments about "personal responsibility" and start looking at how pathetic it is that we insist children be born to suffer.
51
Oh , I so agree with you ! I worked for five years in an inpatient psych hospital. One year on Acute Detox and four years with children ages 5-12 yrs old. These children were admitted because they were self harming/suicidal or homicidal . The majority of them had case histories were horrific and much of the damage was usually caused by parents and other family members who in turn had suffered similar abuses when they were children. YES, birth control is one way to try to reduce this problem but sadly it goes deeper than that. Some people truly are not fit to become parents yet we have no ways of restricting them from doing so.
7
What some of these adults have lived through while a child is hard to imagine. I see a definite failing of our system.
10
I see the failure of human beings.
4
I worked in a psychiatric hospital for about 5 yrs as a nurse. One year spent on the acute Detox unit where the average stay was 5-10 days due to insurance issues. Not nearly long enough to begin anything but acute detox. Very little offered as after care unless one had money. The last four years were spent working on the Children's Unit where we cared for kids ages 5-12 yrs of age. These were children who were suicidal / self harming / homicidal. The MAJORITY of these children had stories as harsh or worse than the ones reported in Kristoff's article. And sadly a majority of these children will end up being admitted at some point to the Adolescent Unit and then to the adult units and /or jail. Can't even count the number of ways the system has failed and it is just getting worse.
6
Mr. Kristof: so much that's right and true here. The racial and class inequities, the criminalization of addiction, the war on drugs, mass incarceration, etc.
I have spent an entire legal career defending indigent clients in courts of law, and talking with them in those smelly jails and prisons, in holding cells and interview rooms, for many tens of thousands of hours more than you.
And nothing makes me want to scream in despair more than when I hear from a female client, "Mr. Lawyer Sir, I just CAN'T go to prison; I have a baby!" Both because it feels right, and because it isn't.
I think a good part of America showed on election day how it feels about special interest Victims' Studies political correctness of the sort exhibited here. And in the so-far leading reader's comment on the "demonization of women."
If you missed the point, I recommend Mr. Lilla's column from the Times' Sunday Opinion, which has been a national lightning rod for this discussion.
As Bernie Sanders (AGAIN) said this week, we on the left must seek economic justice without the appeal to the PC fragmentation of "all women are victims" and its reverse, "all men are rapists." We just have to! You well know that male incarceration rates are geometrically higher than female incarceration rates.
The cries of "racist, misogynist" etc., not to mention the "glass ceiling" campaign didn't work out so well for us, did they?
Let's get off the bleeding heart identity politics and address the real issues!
I have spent an entire legal career defending indigent clients in courts of law, and talking with them in those smelly jails and prisons, in holding cells and interview rooms, for many tens of thousands of hours more than you.
And nothing makes me want to scream in despair more than when I hear from a female client, "Mr. Lawyer Sir, I just CAN'T go to prison; I have a baby!" Both because it feels right, and because it isn't.
I think a good part of America showed on election day how it feels about special interest Victims' Studies political correctness of the sort exhibited here. And in the so-far leading reader's comment on the "demonization of women."
If you missed the point, I recommend Mr. Lilla's column from the Times' Sunday Opinion, which has been a national lightning rod for this discussion.
As Bernie Sanders (AGAIN) said this week, we on the left must seek economic justice without the appeal to the PC fragmentation of "all women are victims" and its reverse, "all men are rapists." We just have to! You well know that male incarceration rates are geometrically higher than female incarceration rates.
The cries of "racist, misogynist" etc., not to mention the "glass ceiling" campaign didn't work out so well for us, did they?
Let's get off the bleeding heart identity politics and address the real issues!
19
Best comment. Readers see:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/20/opinion/sunday/the-end-of-identity-lib...
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/20/opinion/sunday/the-end-of-identity-lib...
4
Here in Canada we call the department that handles incarceration "Corrections" in the genuine hope that that is what it will be. It is not "revenge", "punishment", or even "deterrent" which I fear. is more the rationale for what you experienced and describe.
5
Yeah, well your rate of return to prison is only slightly better than ours.
7
If it were effective, rehabilitation would be an essential law enforcement tool. The problem is that many offenders persistently make horrible choices and are immune to rehabilitation. They repeat the same destructive behaviors while destroying the lives of innocents and relatives.
Rehabilitation requires self discipline and personal motivation, key traits that this sub-population lacks.
Rehabilitation requires self discipline and personal motivation, key traits that this sub-population lacks.
17
Rehab also requires facilities that are able to provide the LONG TERM treatment that is essential for it to work for more than a month or two (if even that ). I worked in a psych hospital on an inpatient detox floor. Most patients were discharged within 5-10 days with no further resources offered to them . Hard to have "personal motivation and self discipline " when one is basically being sent right back out to the world they recently left.
7
Nick, thank you for this review and your opinion.
I have first had experience working with a woman with an equally sad story as we found in the article. Yes, thank God for Grandmothers. The focus on managing the real issue is not only less expensive it offers a better chance to save the mother and the kids. The ability to focus on the problem not the lock them up is very clearly the way to go.
For all the readers who feel it's the addicts fault. Work with me here. I know I can change your mind. I'll be open to your ideas and help manage a few opportunities to expose our bias. Will you work with me with the "other" option ?
I have first had experience working with a woman with an equally sad story as we found in the article. Yes, thank God for Grandmothers. The focus on managing the real issue is not only less expensive it offers a better chance to save the mother and the kids. The ability to focus on the problem not the lock them up is very clearly the way to go.
For all the readers who feel it's the addicts fault. Work with me here. I know I can change your mind. I'll be open to your ideas and help manage a few opportunities to expose our bias. Will you work with me with the "other" option ?
4
"The United States has recently come to its senses and begun dialing back on the number of male prisoners. But we have continued to increase the number of women behind bars;"
When you leave out the actual numbers it makes me suspicious.
I suspect that men are imprisoned far far more often than women. Indeed statistics show this. But you veer away from this fact and concentrate on the increase in women's incarceration.
But it is a reality that you are the women's advocate in the NYT, and that often means that you are not a fairness advocate.
When you leave out the actual numbers it makes me suspicious.
I suspect that men are imprisoned far far more often than women. Indeed statistics show this. But you veer away from this fact and concentrate on the increase in women's incarceration.
But it is a reality that you are the women's advocate in the NYT, and that often means that you are not a fairness advocate.
16
'We', as a society, cannot make individuals hope for a better life. No matter how many opportunities some are given, their problems are/have become so overwhelming that living among the population-at-large is too distracting/triggers a response within that cannot be controlled with proper medication.
While mass incarceration is a step too far; set up group homes and 'sheltered' workshops (structured similar to those for the cognitively disabled community) while going thru rehab for as long as needed.
Each state has its own designated Protection & Advocacy agency; these nonprofit agencies do a lot of work on behalf of attempting to make sure the mental health needs of those in each state mental health facility are met.
In the 90s, I had the privilege of working as an AmeriCorps*VISTA for, what is now, Disability Rights Texas. During that time we partnered with the Texas Civil Rights Project on several initiatives re disability access and voting; wheelchair access to public places. Here is their Criminal Justice page: https://www.texascivilrightsproject.org/en/issues/criminal-justice/
Making grassroot changes to policy is possible as is empowering the individual to step up to the plate; whether they swing at the ball is completely at their discretion.
While mass incarceration is a step too far; set up group homes and 'sheltered' workshops (structured similar to those for the cognitively disabled community) while going thru rehab for as long as needed.
Each state has its own designated Protection & Advocacy agency; these nonprofit agencies do a lot of work on behalf of attempting to make sure the mental health needs of those in each state mental health facility are met.
In the 90s, I had the privilege of working as an AmeriCorps*VISTA for, what is now, Disability Rights Texas. During that time we partnered with the Texas Civil Rights Project on several initiatives re disability access and voting; wheelchair access to public places. Here is their Criminal Justice page: https://www.texascivilrightsproject.org/en/issues/criminal-justice/
Making grassroot changes to policy is possible as is empowering the individual to step up to the plate; whether they swing at the ball is completely at their discretion.
7
At one time I was in charge of the women's jail in San Francisco. I believe everything in this column. Who was in jail? Poor women, minority women, abused women. When are we going to fully realize that we are continuing to punish women who are already victims? And, tragically, their children.
102
The number of California condemned female inmates is ~20 and so with that figure I am compelled to write:
That you "believe everything in this column" is exactly why you were selected to be "in charge" of women's detention in San Francisco.
That you "believe everything in this column" is exactly why you were selected to be "in charge" of women's detention in San Francisco.
4
See film Moonlight about a very fragile mother.
I imagine feminists around the world are steaming as they read this article. Finally women are treated [almost] equally as men yet Kristof is arguing for continued discrimination against someone based solely on their gender.
There will only be true equality when all people - regardless of their gender (biological or otherwise) are treated equally.
There will only be true equality when all people - regardless of their gender (biological or otherwise) are treated equally.
21
If you are writing from Stockholm, there may be aspects of the American criminal justice system that you are unaware of. Kristof's is not an argument that women are less culpable, but rather that some of the injustices of our system tend to fall on women more heavily.
The way things work in the US, nobody ever goes to trial for a criminal offense. If you are accused of a crime in the USA, the prosecutor will threaten you with a half dozen or more trumped-up charges. Thanks to minimum sentencing laws, each of the five or six or ten crimes will often carry a mandatory minimum sentence of a decade or more. The prosecutor will explain that you can try your luck with your court appointed attorney, but you are certain to lose and go to jail for thirty years. If you are lucky, the other option is to plead to a lesser charge. But often, prosecutors do not give that option. Instead, they tell you that you can turn in someone else or go to jail for decades. Many women are on the margins of drug dealing operations and can't give testimony that the prosecutors want. Others refuse to turn in a boyfriend out of some combination of misguided loyalty and fear. They wind up holding the bag.
To put it more simply - prosecutors go for big sentences and easy wins, and among drug users, women are easier targets than men. Criminals are not very egalitarian, you see.
(A for-profit prison industry that donates heavily to elected officials plays in as well, but that's another conversation.)
The way things work in the US, nobody ever goes to trial for a criminal offense. If you are accused of a crime in the USA, the prosecutor will threaten you with a half dozen or more trumped-up charges. Thanks to minimum sentencing laws, each of the five or six or ten crimes will often carry a mandatory minimum sentence of a decade or more. The prosecutor will explain that you can try your luck with your court appointed attorney, but you are certain to lose and go to jail for thirty years. If you are lucky, the other option is to plead to a lesser charge. But often, prosecutors do not give that option. Instead, they tell you that you can turn in someone else or go to jail for decades. Many women are on the margins of drug dealing operations and can't give testimony that the prosecutors want. Others refuse to turn in a boyfriend out of some combination of misguided loyalty and fear. They wind up holding the bag.
To put it more simply - prosecutors go for big sentences and easy wins, and among drug users, women are easier targets than men. Criminals are not very egalitarian, you see.
(A for-profit prison industry that donates heavily to elected officials plays in as well, but that's another conversation.)
10
This article completely fails to give numbers for male prisoners, probably because they are much higher than those for female prisoners. So why have programs specific to women when they are not the group with the greatest need.
And if your concern is really about the children, why not advocate to keep parents, including fathers, out of jail. Right now you seem to favor keeping out of jail childless women, but not fathers.
And if your concern is really about the children, why not advocate to keep parents, including fathers, out of jail. Right now you seem to favor keeping out of jail childless women, but not fathers.
21
I wish Kristoff had interrogated WHY Oklahoma's rate of incarceration is so high compared to other states. I'm currently researching this and it appears that it is not because of women's crime or drug use. Instead, it is linked to the influence of private companies on criminal justice system processes.
129
To be succesful, all Oklahoma has to do is be severe enough so that criminals relocate to Texas or wherever. Job done.
They don't need to care or pay, or re-try them when they fail the next time. They just need to keep them moving on.
They don't need to care or pay, or re-try them when they fail the next time. They just need to keep them moving on.
5
Thank you for sharing Janay's story - congrats to Janay and Women in Recovery for their great work. Here at Fedcap, a New York City nonprofit founded in 1935, we know that with the right supports, justice-involved individuals can rebuild their lives. We see it every day. Formerly incarcerated individuals - men and women - serve as field team leaders and in key office support positions throughout our organization. Many hove moved on to jobs in both the public and private sectors. At our Gala this year, two of our three speakers are formerly incarcerated individuals, who are now thriving as contributing members of society.
12
We are a free society- free to make choices. In a country of 300 million, it is inevitable there will be some who make [wrong] choices which put them in prison. We can debate all day on the WHY- but what is important now? How much time and effort is it worth to rehabilitate another person's life? That answer is going to differ from person to person- region to region- We are such a diverse country with varying opinions, we will never be able to come up with a satisfactory answer or solution which pleases everyone. Some people come from broken homes and do just fine, others have great homes and still fall off the grid. Why is this?
18
Why is this? Why, because they're human...
5
This is an important article and gives important information of a start in rehabilitation of women who have gone in the wrong direction.
As Kristof says: I know some of you are glaring at this article and thinking: It’s their own fault. If they don’t want to go to prison, they shouldn’t commit crimes!
There is only one comment because of this thought. People don't warm up to women with children who are placed with relatives, in foster homes, left to grow up by themselves while their mothers are in jail.
It is horrifying that the US incarcerates so many women often when they could be helped through state or government programs to get over their drug or alcohol absue, help them get jobs, keep their children together.
Look at the econd paragraph. A drug offender shackled to a wall for an interview!! And after you paused your interview and Ms. Manning topped crying did you continue to talk or did the prison officials push/kick/drag her back to her cell?
Right now countries are remembering women who have died by the violent hands of men. These women are no different. Keeping them in jail, often for futile reasons, is Killing them and their children.
As Kristof says: I know some of you are glaring at this article and thinking: It’s their own fault. If they don’t want to go to prison, they shouldn’t commit crimes!
There is only one comment because of this thought. People don't warm up to women with children who are placed with relatives, in foster homes, left to grow up by themselves while their mothers are in jail.
It is horrifying that the US incarcerates so many women often when they could be helped through state or government programs to get over their drug or alcohol absue, help them get jobs, keep their children together.
Look at the econd paragraph. A drug offender shackled to a wall for an interview!! And after you paused your interview and Ms. Manning topped crying did you continue to talk or did the prison officials push/kick/drag her back to her cell?
Right now countries are remembering women who have died by the violent hands of men. These women are no different. Keeping them in jail, often for futile reasons, is Killing them and their children.
15
You are assuming WAY too many things that Kristof did not write: "pushed and kicked back to her cell" Really?
Prisoners are required in most instances to be in cuffs when having visitors--one cuff is attached to a stationary object. Every attorney who visits clients in jail is familiar with this practice.
Prisoners are required in most instances to be in cuffs when having visitors--one cuff is attached to a stationary object. Every attorney who visits clients in jail is familiar with this practice.
17
Prison is not always the answer but recovery must entail the fearless moral self inventory and making direct amends to those injured by the actions of the addict. If we simply assume that all these women are victims without agency, the cycle will never be broken. Self examination and amends are still crucial even if that does not involve incarceration.
18
And men are still incarcerated at more than 10 times the rate. Different standards for different genders really isn't a wise idea and this article isn't going to generate support for your case.
26
More men aren't in prison because of "different standards for different genders".
More men commit crimes. That's a fact--look it up. Particularly violent crimes.
More male criminals=more men in prison.
More men commit crimes. That's a fact--look it up. Particularly violent crimes.
More male criminals=more men in prison.
10
Altered states of consciousness have been sought by many people throughout history and the misdirected efforts to change this behavior by some should be called out as the attempt to bend others to their will.
Live and let live only requires us to keep our hands off others who do not share our views. There are many good reasons for detention, but the personal use of drugs use is not one of them.
No one asks to be born and raised in any society and no one has the right to exercise control over another individual.
Live and let live only requires us to keep our hands off others who do not share our views. There are many good reasons for detention, but the personal use of drugs use is not one of them.
No one asks to be born and raised in any society and no one has the right to exercise control over another individual.
5
Except when your right to get high interferes with my right to live my life in a safe environment.
24
Gotta love Kristof's unqualified love of his fellow man. That respect established we could ask, "How might Mr Kristof become even more in tune with his fellow humans?" This is a trick question, as I angle at taking Kristof down a notch by that tuning, to nearer reality. For his own good.
If he were to inhabit the milieu of the junkie for five years (as a minimum) and then do a stint (or two) in jail with them, he could still speak in the most naive terms of women being coerced by their boyfriends and the wonder of a life long dope addict having custody of the kids on weekends. But he'd be graciously lying out of love & hope, not speaking in adult terms. He'd be testifying in the religious sense, not contributing to a discussion that in the end is about hard earned dollars being spent on people who do not work and have wasted their prospects.
What Nick lacks is experience in the addict's realm. Given that, he would understand that we lose a junkie with the addiction. They are not just outside the window on the ledge with one hand extended toward the rescuer awaiting help. They are way down the ledge into a corner setting up camp with their pals, and intending, no matter what they tell you, to stay there for good. And they do.
The focus of a humanitarian vis a vis junkies should be to, 1. separate them from society and their kids and most of all 2. prevent new junkies. A priest can invest in lost souls, policy planners have greater considerations.
If he were to inhabit the milieu of the junkie for five years (as a minimum) and then do a stint (or two) in jail with them, he could still speak in the most naive terms of women being coerced by their boyfriends and the wonder of a life long dope addict having custody of the kids on weekends. But he'd be graciously lying out of love & hope, not speaking in adult terms. He'd be testifying in the religious sense, not contributing to a discussion that in the end is about hard earned dollars being spent on people who do not work and have wasted their prospects.
What Nick lacks is experience in the addict's realm. Given that, he would understand that we lose a junkie with the addiction. They are not just outside the window on the ledge with one hand extended toward the rescuer awaiting help. They are way down the ledge into a corner setting up camp with their pals, and intending, no matter what they tell you, to stay there for good. And they do.
The focus of a humanitarian vis a vis junkies should be to, 1. separate them from society and their kids and most of all 2. prevent new junkies. A priest can invest in lost souls, policy planners have greater considerations.
22
I identify with your frustration that the left wants to let everyone freely do drugs and stay in society where addicts' children and other people's children may end up being affected. Also, I have been in a situation where a family member has taken money for drugs and alcohol from my 85-year-old father, not once, not twice, but over and over again.
Maybe jail, long-term, is not the best answer, but some people, despite popular liberal views, are never going to straighten up and do better. When they finally fail, they take down a whole, extended family with them.
Maybe jail, long-term, is not the best answer, but some people, despite popular liberal views, are never going to straighten up and do better. When they finally fail, they take down a whole, extended family with them.
11
So what's the solution? Abolish all laws, I guess. People are what we are, therefore that leaves only the written statutes that can be changed. It's either eliminating them or us, and the former has already been tried with apparently only limited success, since here we are back where we began. If just as many are in prison as is not, is there any difference between the two anymore?
7
So is the issue that since the 1970s, "tough on crime" and the "war on drugs" has resulted in mass incarceration?
The dramatic increase in the US prison population is ~700% higher today than in 1970 according to Wikipedia sources. This translates into ~2.2m people, or just under 1% of the American population with another ~4.7m more either on parole or probation.
According to the Fed Bureau of Prisons data, ~46% of those incarcerated in federal prisons as of October, 2016 were in for drug offenses.
The "war on drugs" is having an even worse impact on America than the Prohibition did on the country. It is too expensive to police. It is too lucrative for the gangs and the cartels. It is the cause of mass incarceration in this country.
Legalize drugs. End the police state lunacy on this matter.
We will find that we may lose some millions of souls to drugs; maybe as many as we do to alcohol and tobacco today. As Mr Kristoff acknowledges, people who are stuck in self-destructive behaviors will not change their behaviors because drugs are either legal or not. They will be who and what they are.
But to continue the current policies is beyond dumb; it has to be viewed for what it is and that is an excuse to punish people who commit non violent human behaviorial transgressions for political purpose.
The dramatic increase in the US prison population is ~700% higher today than in 1970 according to Wikipedia sources. This translates into ~2.2m people, or just under 1% of the American population with another ~4.7m more either on parole or probation.
According to the Fed Bureau of Prisons data, ~46% of those incarcerated in federal prisons as of October, 2016 were in for drug offenses.
The "war on drugs" is having an even worse impact on America than the Prohibition did on the country. It is too expensive to police. It is too lucrative for the gangs and the cartels. It is the cause of mass incarceration in this country.
Legalize drugs. End the police state lunacy on this matter.
We will find that we may lose some millions of souls to drugs; maybe as many as we do to alcohol and tobacco today. As Mr Kristoff acknowledges, people who are stuck in self-destructive behaviors will not change their behaviors because drugs are either legal or not. They will be who and what they are.
But to continue the current policies is beyond dumb; it has to be viewed for what it is and that is an excuse to punish people who commit non violent human behaviorial transgressions for political purpose.
62
Mr. Kristof, thank you for this. My guess is the Women in Recovery program is successful because they see beneath the women's problems, and strive to nourish the seeds of self-worth and potential that live in all of us. Being punitive only goes so far; fear typically isn't a strong enough motivator for lasting change, nor does it give people the tools needed to help them successfully navigate stressful times. Our dollars would be so much more wisely spent if we helped people to grow, rather than merely survive their time in jail.
54
There is so much in this article that is thought- and/or anger-provoking, I'll never be able to respond to it all. Here are just some of my thoughts.
As a recovering alcoholic, I believe firmly in the disease model of addiction. I was employed when I went into Rehab, and my insurance paid for 3/4 of it. Had is not been for my insurance, I most likely would have relapsed and died. In my view, rehabilitation must be an indispensable part of incarceration to avoid relapse and recidivism. It would more than pay for itself.
Unfortunately, much of society views addiction or alcoholism as merely a moral failing and would resist paying money for rehab. Also, white America tends to condemn addiction among people of color while regarding the present epidemic of opioid addiction among white people as "a cry for help". Ridiculous.
I have a special contempt for men who molest children or exploit other human beings sexually. I will be a staunch proponent of capital punishment as long as such men do those things.
As a recovering alcoholic, I believe firmly in the disease model of addiction. I was employed when I went into Rehab, and my insurance paid for 3/4 of it. Had is not been for my insurance, I most likely would have relapsed and died. In my view, rehabilitation must be an indispensable part of incarceration to avoid relapse and recidivism. It would more than pay for itself.
Unfortunately, much of society views addiction or alcoholism as merely a moral failing and would resist paying money for rehab. Also, white America tends to condemn addiction among people of color while regarding the present epidemic of opioid addiction among white people as "a cry for help". Ridiculous.
I have a special contempt for men who molest children or exploit other human beings sexually. I will be a staunch proponent of capital punishment as long as such men do those things.
41
And when women do those things? A serious question - a lot of child abuse is committed by women. Why not say you have special contempt for people who molest?
5
I believe their stories. I have heard similar stories from many female juvenile offenders. Treatment is the answer. Addiction recovery requires support, skilled consistent support. Keep reporting these stories.
95
There were so many strong points in this article, but perhaps my favorite was this:
“It’s time to change how we view addiction. Not as a moral failing but as a chronic illness.”
It's easy to dismiss the women here and coldly say they got what they deserved. But a little compassion and understanding would really go a long way. It could have easily been me in prison had I not been blessed with a loving and economically stable family. As a society we should help them overcome the darkest moments of their life instead of making it impossible for them to become contributing members of society.
Thank you, for shedding light on this.
“It’s time to change how we view addiction. Not as a moral failing but as a chronic illness.”
It's easy to dismiss the women here and coldly say they got what they deserved. But a little compassion and understanding would really go a long way. It could have easily been me in prison had I not been blessed with a loving and economically stable family. As a society we should help them overcome the darkest moments of their life instead of making it impossible for them to become contributing members of society.
Thank you, for shedding light on this.
145
Breaking the law IS a moral failure. And you have to break the law to get addicted to illicit drugs.
8
I do some volunteer work at a federal prison in the area. Many of the women I see are as your describe here, Nick. Most of those I see are eager to take advantage of every available program, both rehabilitative and educational. The family days we host are both heart warming and heart breaking. A fair percentage of the women are imprisoned for immigration violations. I shudder to think what is ahead for future violators.
102
It's no surprise that a state like Oklahoma should have a high incarceration rate considering the poverty level and educational divide. It makes me wounder in what kind of backward country I live. It's as if our institutions and authorities are the keepers of a devastating status quo. Human lives discarded, the article says it all.
27
Addiction is a disease and a public health issue, and many of the women in this story have, to put it succinctly, lost the parent lottery. I know, however, of at least one situation in which a set of model parents did everything they could to help their teenage daughter, to no avail. Multiple stints in rehab didn't work. In her early 20s, she and her boyfriend teamed up to rob a pharmacy at gunpoint; she is about halfway through a 10-year sentence. In my "transitional" neighborhood, we've seen an influx of white teens and 20-somethings who come here to buy heroin; in one case a couple was overdosing with a toddler in the car. Programs such as the ones described here need to be more ubiquitous. That said, prison is sometimes the best solution for a woman (or man) willing to put others in danger to feed her (or his) habit.
34
(Not Mark) The problem with addiction programs is that they often don't work. How many times will we pay for someone to go to a program? If they don't complete it or go back to substance abuse and crime, how many times will we let them get out of doing jail time? I've known a few criminals and drug abusers, they always have a sad song to tell, but I wish you had done more checking into the stories instead of just believing them. Don't you have fact checkers at that paper?
14
People go to prison for having done things not just to themselves or having been victims of circumstances, they have perpetrated crimes on others multiple times. Mr Kristof, you speak of the criminals as victims with passion. You ignore those that they have victimized. Have you examined the impact on people who have been sold drugs to by 'low level drug dealers'. Have you looked at the lives whose businesses and homes have been burglarized or people have have been robbed. We know that these addicts do not simply victimize one person but strings of people to feed their addictions. Further, you call out one person in a chain of sexual and physical abuse as the victim while referring to those that victimize them in criminal terms. Yet, we know that they too are likely to have been victims of childhood physical and sexual abuse. In fact, the so called victims are perpetrators. They are victims as children only. They are now adults who damage society and people around them and deserve to be removed from hurting others
58
It is true that these victims are often perpetrators, but given this, isn't a program with a low recidivism rate better than one with a high-definition rate? Seeking vengeance by locking women up in harsh conditions and with no rehabilitation does nothing for the woman's past victims - or her future victims when she offends again.
10
Let's dispense with the pronouns "they" and "them." The people lumped together here as "drug offenders" are individuals.
One of the most counterproductive aspects of the "tough on crimes" laws has been mandatory sentencing, which leaves the judge no discretionary powers about individual cases and circumstances.
This wholesale lock-em-up policy has had the result of breaking up yet more families, punishing children for for the crime of having chosen their parents badly. Can't we at least study successful models of less punitive and draconian policies?
Finally, fiscal conservatives should study carefully the cost-benefit ratio of rehab to incarceration. At present, we have some states spending more per inmate in prison than they do per pupil in their school system. This is unconscionable any way you look at it.
No, current policy and practice are not good enough. Must do better.
One of the most counterproductive aspects of the "tough on crimes" laws has been mandatory sentencing, which leaves the judge no discretionary powers about individual cases and circumstances.
This wholesale lock-em-up policy has had the result of breaking up yet more families, punishing children for for the crime of having chosen their parents badly. Can't we at least study successful models of less punitive and draconian policies?
Finally, fiscal conservatives should study carefully the cost-benefit ratio of rehab to incarceration. At present, we have some states spending more per inmate in prison than they do per pupil in their school system. This is unconscionable any way you look at it.
No, current policy and practice are not good enough. Must do better.
2
The problem with these alternative to prison programs is they still treat people like inmates. Some people are even kept there longer than their sentences would have been or indefinitely.
They're constantly reminded that they are living "off the system" so they had better follow the rules. Someone comes to your apartment every week to make sure you know how to clean and if the place isn't tidy, they assume you are falling into old habits; better keep you in the program longer. If you remind employees that their house probably isn't always clean either they will remind you they don't live on welfare.
They offer budgeting classes when people in the program don't even make enough to live on to have a budget, because they are assumed to be financially irresponsible. The job they help you secure is something like a job at Target collecting shopping carts in the parking lot. Yes, it's a job but it's hardly building a career or becoming financially independent.
Women in particular struggle with reintegrating into society and getting back on their feet because they have experienced different life roles and societal expectations.
They're constantly reminded that they are living "off the system" so they had better follow the rules. Someone comes to your apartment every week to make sure you know how to clean and if the place isn't tidy, they assume you are falling into old habits; better keep you in the program longer. If you remind employees that their house probably isn't always clean either they will remind you they don't live on welfare.
They offer budgeting classes when people in the program don't even make enough to live on to have a budget, because they are assumed to be financially irresponsible. The job they help you secure is something like a job at Target collecting shopping carts in the parking lot. Yes, it's a job but it's hardly building a career or becoming financially independent.
Women in particular struggle with reintegrating into society and getting back on their feet because they have experienced different life roles and societal expectations.
18
What do you expect, then? That a drug addict criminal should be given privacy and a upper-middle-class apartment or house? allowed to party and let the place go to heck? (on the taxpayers dime, natch)?
We're not talking about "messiness" or towel's on the floor, Melissa. We are talking about people living in filth, with cockroaches and rotting food on the floor.
And if you never budget....you will never get ahead, no matter what job you get. And do you expect to give an ex-con junkie with no education a high level, middle class job? $15 an hour? for doing WHAT? someone with no skills and no education DOES get to push carts around a Target parking lot! What on earth else would you expect them to do?
We're not talking about "messiness" or towel's on the floor, Melissa. We are talking about people living in filth, with cockroaches and rotting food on the floor.
And if you never budget....you will never get ahead, no matter what job you get. And do you expect to give an ex-con junkie with no education a high level, middle class job? $15 an hour? for doing WHAT? someone with no skills and no education DOES get to push carts around a Target parking lot! What on earth else would you expect them to do?
6
How do you know they have no education? I know of a woman with artwork displayed in a NYC museum living in one of these homes. Towels on the floor and dishes in the sink is exactly what employees look for when they visit. They do not offer housing with roaches and mold. The same employees making these house visits have less education or the same as the people living in the homes do.
The point is to get OUT of the system and be on your own without relying on the taxpayer dime at all. That will never happen if they are kept "in the system" indefinitely.
The point is to get OUT of the system and be on your own without relying on the taxpayer dime at all. That will never happen if they are kept "in the system" indefinitely.
2
I suspect, now that republicans have control of all three branches of government, that all strategies from Democrats will be rolled back or drastically changed. Even within the republican party, things have changed dramatically since the election.
Here is an excellent ( up to date article ) on the matter.
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2016/07/18/two-parties-two-platforms-...
The stance on illegal drugs will change from a treatment position back to a punishment position directly creating a larger prison population. ( women included ) Social assistance funding will be reduced, further enhancing the problem of swelling the numbers of inmates.
There is ample statistics bearing out what I just commented, but those will be ignored on the same level of ignoring them on climate change.
The damage is already done in many instances where people will be made to languish with no hope for their future.
Neither for ours as a result.
Here is an excellent ( up to date article ) on the matter.
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2016/07/18/two-parties-two-platforms-...
The stance on illegal drugs will change from a treatment position back to a punishment position directly creating a larger prison population. ( women included ) Social assistance funding will be reduced, further enhancing the problem of swelling the numbers of inmates.
There is ample statistics bearing out what I just commented, but those will be ignored on the same level of ignoring them on climate change.
The damage is already done in many instances where people will be made to languish with no hope for their future.
Neither for ours as a result.
20
I don't know why but when I am wondering what Republicans will do, I do not ask a Democrat.
People who detest Republicans are unlikely to understand them and hence unlikely to make good predictions.
And as for "There is ample statistics bearing out what I just commented" there CAN be no statistics on what WILL happen.
People who detest Republicans are unlikely to understand them and hence unlikely to make good predictions.
And as for "There is ample statistics bearing out what I just commented" there CAN be no statistics on what WILL happen.
11
Many women in prison today are there because of their boyfriends /husbands who are the drug dealers or gang members. Most of these woman should be in rehab or psychiatric hospitals. As a nation we surely enjoy punishing women (and their children), disgusting.
136
Of course many women are also in prison because of making bad choices unrelated to men.
17
Nice to see your outrage, now put it into action. What you ought to do is sell everything you own and give it to the poor, like Jesus teaches. I don't see how sharing your disgust accomplishes a thing other than perhaps making you feel superior for having written it down. That's piffle.
10
Always someone else's fault, isn't it?
10
There is an all-out effort by the wealthiest elites in America and around the world, who own all the media, entertainment and communications outlets, to demonize women.
Look at all the "crime" programs on television and one will find that most are about women killing men. Watch the new "hot" programs about deceit, political wrongdoing, murder and mayhem and women are staged as the villains. Watch "Lifetime", supposedly the station for women, that paints women as victims then become empowered. Watch "Hallmark" to learn that women must have a man to be "complete".
It is all male fabrication.
Look at the efforts around the world to get rid of women in positions of power.
Look and wake up women, and the men who love them. This assault does not bode well for any society or for civilization and relative peace in the world.
Look at all the "crime" programs on television and one will find that most are about women killing men. Watch the new "hot" programs about deceit, political wrongdoing, murder and mayhem and women are staged as the villains. Watch "Lifetime", supposedly the station for women, that paints women as victims then become empowered. Watch "Hallmark" to learn that women must have a man to be "complete".
It is all male fabrication.
Look at the efforts around the world to get rid of women in positions of power.
Look and wake up women, and the men who love them. This assault does not bode well for any society or for civilization and relative peace in the world.
108
The system for both women and men is corrupt. Any business that had the success rate of the criminal justice system in America would be bankrupt.
Yet, the people don't care. Too easy to slam all as felons, thus be " ruled out" easily. Shame on us.
Yet, the people don't care. Too easy to slam all as felons, thus be " ruled out" easily. Shame on us.
15
Which is exactly the reason we incarcerate men at 14 times the rate for women - trying to throw them off the trail.
10
Believing that women are being "demonized" is misguided feminism at its worst. It simply is not true, plays on old stereotypes and ignores that men are incarcerated at far higher rates, and for longer periods of time.
24