Simply an expansion of the police state in preparation for the gathering up of, well lets see, Gays, leftists, Jews and for that matter anyone who isn't a fervent believer in Jesus. It is oddly, reminiscent of a phrase of the Bush administration about the war against terrorists. To wit: We must fight them on their porches, lest we find them on our own.
26
There are probably more so-called "sanctuary cities" than one would suppose. In my eastern Washington town of 70,000, around 55% of the population is Latino, i.e. of Mexican origin or descent. To calm the rumors, the chief of police recently announced that they will not be enforcing federal immigration laws. It's not their job.
30
We are a nation of laws, except when aspects cause consternation and unhappiness, then suddenly we are expected to ignore the law. Illegal immigration has many forms. Those who cross our borders intending to seek employment, escape poverty and even to escape law enforcement in their own country. We have people who arrive on tourist visas or on "vacation" and then fail to return to their own countries and disappear within immigrant communities scattered about our country. We have students who come on an education visa and also fail to return to their home country.
All of these have a common problem: failure to control our borders and failure to take affirmative action to locate and deport those who have violated our laws. Recall that entering or staying in our country without proper authorization and documentation is a crime. We have communities that suffer increased crimes from Mexican and Central American gangs and cartels. We have communities impacted with a flood of undocumented children enrolling in our schools and forcing administrations to redirected scarce resources to deal with children who have little or no education and are unable to speak English. Meanwhile our own children suffer. It has been the utter failure by each political party to listen to the voices of Americans who have been directly affected by illegal immigration that has resulted in a historic election. It will be stressful to those who are here illegally and frankly I don't care. You broken the law.
All of these have a common problem: failure to control our borders and failure to take affirmative action to locate and deport those who have violated our laws. Recall that entering or staying in our country without proper authorization and documentation is a crime. We have communities that suffer increased crimes from Mexican and Central American gangs and cartels. We have communities impacted with a flood of undocumented children enrolling in our schools and forcing administrations to redirected scarce resources to deal with children who have little or no education and are unable to speak English. Meanwhile our own children suffer. It has been the utter failure by each political party to listen to the voices of Americans who have been directly affected by illegal immigration that has resulted in a historic election. It will be stressful to those who are here illegally and frankly I don't care. You broken the law.
43
Everything that comes out of Trump's mouth is made up, lacking data, or any kind of verification. This is a common Republican ploy, which Trump is employing very well. Those of us who still believe in the traditional principles, of the United States of America, will fight this dangerous demagogue, and all his evil minions. Republican "family values" is a nasty, sarcastic joke.
46
I'm already sickened by this administration. We need an international intervention. Everybody but Russia and N. Korea, please help us!
20
Is anyone going to be upset if he first acts to remove criminals? The numbers don't matter, if the total is 300,000 or 3 million.
Find them, arrest them, give them an abbreviated hearing (remember, they are here illegally), and in short order, get them out.
The media and mayors may rail on about the injustice of it all, yet it's a question of whether or not they're here legally. If not, by any means necessary, get them out. The Feds don't need the permission of sanctuary cities. You can't give sanctuary to criminals.
Find them, arrest them, give them an abbreviated hearing (remember, they are here illegally), and in short order, get them out.
The media and mayors may rail on about the injustice of it all, yet it's a question of whether or not they're here legally. If not, by any means necessary, get them out. The Feds don't need the permission of sanctuary cities. You can't give sanctuary to criminals.
28
I think the term "illegal aliens" are the words you are looking for.
Indeed, there are enormous costs to such a proposal. However, just the threat of such an aggressive program to remove illegals might actually send many of them on their way on their own accord, which might be Trump's thinking. I am wondering if seizure of assets would be constitutional. Such a threat could also give people their own impetus to self-police and move on.
Indeed, there are enormous costs to such a proposal. However, just the threat of such an aggressive program to remove illegals might actually send many of them on their way on their own accord, which might be Trump's thinking. I am wondering if seizure of assets would be constitutional. Such a threat could also give people their own impetus to self-police and move on.
13
Okay the Obama administration says there is 2 million not 3 million. Whatever the number it is a good start. The NY Times is so disappointing!
15
It seems that this has happened before on a statewide level in Alabama. Here's a ink to a TV story about that two years after it happened. It should be interesting to see how it's going now, and whether the state of Alabama backed out completely or simply did some modifications to make a reasonable program work.
Here's a link to a 2013 article.
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/undocumented-workers-immigration-alabama
Here's a link to a 2013 article.
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/undocumented-workers-immigration-alabama
3
Here's what the NYT doesn't quite get: why is not a single victim of violent crime murdered or maimed by illegal immigrants mentioned? Who speaks for these victims?
24
Trump ran on a platform of cracking down on illegal immigration. The most flawed and unlikely candidate in recent history won the presidency due in part to his platform on illegal immigration. The recent narrative of amnesty for illegal immigrants and open borders as espoused by the Board is now dead.
I have little sympathy for those that violated our immigration laws for their own personal gain. They knew the risks and took them because the reward for doing so was great. We must enforce our immigration laws to defend our working class and protect our environment and natural resources.
The coming mass deportations will be difficult. However, I hope the Trump administration will crack down even harder on industry and employers that lured these immigrants here in the first place. It is offending businesses that deserve the bulk of our scorn.
I have little sympathy for those that violated our immigration laws for their own personal gain. They knew the risks and took them because the reward for doing so was great. We must enforce our immigration laws to defend our working class and protect our environment and natural resources.
The coming mass deportations will be difficult. However, I hope the Trump administration will crack down even harder on industry and employers that lured these immigrants here in the first place. It is offending businesses that deserve the bulk of our scorn.
24
If I were a gun rights advocate, I would be extremely concerned about a federal government that is exercising its muscles on identifying a certain group of people, finding them, and extracting them from their homes. The infernal machine is always reasonable.
8
"There aren’t three million unauthorized immigrant criminals to deport"
The figure includes, according to the NYT, legal immigrants who are not citizens and committed bad things.
The figure includes, according to the NYT, legal immigrants who are not citizens and committed bad things.
4
The War on Drugs was an epic failure. The War on People waged by Trump and his henchmen is a disgusting, hate filled mockery of justice. It's most certainly not in keeping with what our forefathers had hoped for us.
26
Deporting immigrants will make it easier to claim Social Security is in trouble. Undocumented immigrants pay large amounts into Social Security without any withdrawals, enhancing the security (no pun intended) of the system. Donald is ignorant of economics, but even he should be able to understand you put money in and don't take it out, the money accumulates.
16
When did a city get to decide who is a US citizen?
We talk about the rule of law and due process when we talk about removing immigrants, but allow sanctuary cities to openly flaunt due process for immigrants illegally entering the country? I thought cognitive dissidence only existed at Fox News.
If I have learned anything from this election is that cognitive dissidence occurs on both sides. Why didn't the NYTimes ever mention sanctuary cities before Trump? Why wasn't I informed to make my own judgement about how I felt about sanctuary cities before a wrecking ball was elected President? Why don't I understand half of the nation I live in?
We talk about the rule of law and due process when we talk about removing immigrants, but allow sanctuary cities to openly flaunt due process for immigrants illegally entering the country? I thought cognitive dissidence only existed at Fox News.
If I have learned anything from this election is that cognitive dissidence occurs on both sides. Why didn't the NYTimes ever mention sanctuary cities before Trump? Why wasn't I informed to make my own judgement about how I felt about sanctuary cities before a wrecking ball was elected President? Why don't I understand half of the nation I live in?
14
Deport 25K illegal immigrants who are convicted of crimes. Make a comprehensive immigration reform to give a pathway to 11 illegal immigrants to a citizenship so their contribution to the overall economy can grow further. Abolish the law to grant citizenship to new born babies of the illegal immigrants so we won't have the situation of american children who's parents are illegal immigrants going forward.
4
Trump may have pretended to be a businessman and not a politician, but believe me, he was a politician, and a politician will say anything to get elected. He pandered to his base and made unworkable promises that he has no intention of keeping. This ain't rocket science; it's politics as usual. Why would anyone expect that it would be different?
11
I chuckle because I see those who edit this section's comments have managed to exclude the expression of a very simple fact: To be in my country illegally is to be a criminal. The punishment--deportation--fits the crime. It would or will be terribly expensive and painful to exercise this basic tenet of national sovereignty, and I don't think much will happen. But crime is crime. Drug dealers can be construed as noble entrepreneurs, bravely facing terrific odds, fighting for a better life for their families. Should we really tolerate their lawlessness? Why? Why tolerate the lawlessness of illegal immigrants?
19
It starts with the undocumented. Who will be next? This is how 11 million people were rounded up in Europe, and we know how that ended.
18
Bravo Charlie Beck!
2
"Everyone who is here Illegally should be deported, period." This is a sentence from one of the people who commented on this story. But it is representative of many who think this way. There are no shades of gray, no contextualization of the issue, no informed and thoughtful examination of the situation. For example why did these "illegals" come here? Is it because staying in their own countries was too dangerous? And if so, why was it too dangerous? Did United States policies of supporting violent coups in Central and South America have anything to do with the violence in their countries? And even if the United States policies had nothing to do with the violence, what will happen to these "illegals" who are forced to return to their own countries? These are only a few questions to consider regarding this issue. Black and white thinking may make people feel superior and righteous but it is frightening and deeply troubling. Have the righteous even noticed the pathos in the illustration accompanying the editorial? Where is the compassion, the profound and complex ethical inquiry this issue deserves?
20
Politicians exaggerate. Remember how Hillary was "shot at" while in Bosnia? It didn't happen.
So, the number is closer to 1 million rather than 3 for those who have convictions. Start there. Get them out.
Then, let's look at illegal aliens who have committed real crimes, but have not been convicted. Identity Fraud anyone? Walk into any low skill factory in LA and half the workers will be illegals. They got the jobs because they "borrowed" someone's identity. That is fraud. These are criminals. They need to go.
So, the number is closer to 1 million rather than 3 for those who have convictions. Start there. Get them out.
Then, let's look at illegal aliens who have committed real crimes, but have not been convicted. Identity Fraud anyone? Walk into any low skill factory in LA and half the workers will be illegals. They got the jobs because they "borrowed" someone's identity. That is fraud. These are criminals. They need to go.
10
Whine! Have you ever had MS-13 members for neighbors? They were running a little prostitution, drug dispensary out of my apartment complex in Northern Virginia. I had to walk past their intently gazing sentries on a regular basis. Fortunately my contact with them was limited. It was a welcome relief when I read of their discovery and arrest.
In America (USA) we have little Italy's, China towns, little Vietnam's, little India's, etc., but we don't necessarily need a little El Salvador when criminal gangs are an integral part of their life and culture which they import to the USA.
In America (USA) we have little Italy's, China towns, little Vietnam's, little India's, etc., but we don't necessarily need a little El Salvador when criminal gangs are an integral part of their life and culture which they import to the USA.
28
Cut federal spending to cities!? The sanctuary cities are all in blue states. Blue states pay more to federal government than they get back! Federal money goes more to red states, who apparently would rather be poor.
14
If they are really furious at the intended agenda of Donald Trump, there needs to be a thousands of members multigroup protest standing in front of the Capitol Building for the inauguration! Every group that has been vilified by Donald Trump needs to have their say about the grievous election of this individual!
5
300,00 or 800,000 is still that many too many. It took Obama 8 years to get to 2.5M because he wasn't serious about it to begin with. I want my grand children to grow up in America not someone else's dream world of nation's with out borders or cultural history.
15
Trump's words & ways are indeed ugly & dangerous, but I'd like to know when & how the NYT (& other mainstream media) can support "law & order" measures but not apply normal law enforcement regs for the millions of undocumented/illegal immigrants? Why are we making an exception to one particular group? I don't get it. We are a pro-immigrant country, so long as our rules are followed, as imperfect as they are.
9
What I like about this editorial is the references to Trump's specific statements. Trump is, quite literally, a bag of wind spouting out whatever he thinks will sound good to the base of fans he is manipulating.. He is not even worth taking seriously as a leader because he just spouts whatever he thinks will make an impression. That being said, I think it is important to look back at what he did say - and what he follows through on - to prove this point, for those who need proof. I hope the NYT will continue to call him out on his specific boasts.
12
The same evangelical Christians who fear 666 - "the mark of the Beast" -- are apparently willing to approve Trump’s new police state, as long as it targets the "Other." Who will speak up when they come for you, evangelicals?
8
The well-used idiom of "kick the can down the road" is pretty much what will happen with certain of our President-Elect's campaign promises. I can only wonder how many times he will say something like, "Oh. I didn't realize that," when one of his trusted advisors, his children, or a seasoned member of Congress tells him of the difficulties or outright impossibilities of making good on a vote-garnering promise.
8
Trump is a vile , deceitful, lying bigot. His conduct, actions and speech stand mute and not so mute testimony to that. However sometimes conmen and charlatans like him serve a purpose too. At least we an now discuss and address the issues that have animated a large number of Americans, who have been fed blatant lies and thuggery by right-wing GOP politicians and media for last 20 years.
10
How he gets to that number is he will deport pretty much any illegal alien arrested for a felony. In the country illegally and arrested for a felony, we're not even going to bother convicting you, we're throwing you out. And we should.
10
I think that it will be difficult to do this in the 10 blue states left, but in the red states much easier. All Trump has to do is appear to be doing it and it will satisfy many of those single issue voters who voted for him to get rid of immigrants. We've seen the ignorance of voters on both sides that view the world through blinders. One should read Mark Lillas essay here on the hazard of Democrats overly focused on identity politics, and how it was a major reason we lost. However, it will be difficult for those of us who care about all Americans to stand by and say nothing, but it is working against us in the "new" America.
As for Republicans cutting off federal funding for sanctuary cities like San Francisco and Santa Fe in my state, they want to do that anyway. There won't be much federal funding left anyway after they give it all to the rich, destroy Medicare and employ their "starve the beast" mentality now that there is no real opposition.
As for Republicans cutting off federal funding for sanctuary cities like San Francisco and Santa Fe in my state, they want to do that anyway. There won't be much federal funding left anyway after they give it all to the rich, destroy Medicare and employ their "starve the beast" mentality now that there is no real opposition.
8
Anyone who does not see the terrifying similarity between this election and the ascendancy of Hitler is willfully blind. The tragedy is that we are doing it to ourselves.
With the virtual impossibility of send these "bad people" anywhere, the likely scenario is internment camps. Sound familiar? They won't be called Buchenwald or Treblinka but make no mistake "Arbeit Macht Frei" will be at the gate and atrocities will happen inside away from view. A man in a uniform of ICE will stop you anywhere and demand "where are your papers?"
Jews should lead us all in rising up in protest and in anger over this pending atrocity.
With the virtual impossibility of send these "bad people" anywhere, the likely scenario is internment camps. Sound familiar? They won't be called Buchenwald or Treblinka but make no mistake "Arbeit Macht Frei" will be at the gate and atrocities will happen inside away from view. A man in a uniform of ICE will stop you anywhere and demand "where are your papers?"
Jews should lead us all in rising up in protest and in anger over this pending atrocity.
15
There is a chorus, it's not just the NYTimes editorial board.
Ron Wyden on Trump's agenda: 'a wake-up call for potential abuse of power'
“You look at some of what the president-elect has to say and it certainly ought to be a wake-up call from the standpoint of potential abuse of power,” Wyden said.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/18/ron-wyden-senator-donald...
Ron Wyden on Trump's agenda: 'a wake-up call for potential abuse of power'
“You look at some of what the president-elect has to say and it certainly ought to be a wake-up call from the standpoint of potential abuse of power,” Wyden said.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/18/ron-wyden-senator-donald...
7
Part of the problem is that a bunch of resentful, toxic people voted for this man, and they WANT immigrants (legal and otherwise) to be very afraid, and to live in America afraid indefinitely. Can you imagine living in constant fear?
I hope that Trump voters realize, the sooner the better, that he is just a windbag, and once he actually learns something about how real government and the real economy work, all their rage will transfer to the new regime.
Please write to your congressmen, to advocate for keeping the new toxic regime in check. 'We the people' are our only hope.
I hope that Trump voters realize, the sooner the better, that he is just a windbag, and once he actually learns something about how real government and the real economy work, all their rage will transfer to the new regime.
Please write to your congressmen, to advocate for keeping the new toxic regime in check. 'We the people' are our only hope.
11
Yesterday, it was the Jews in Germany. Today it is us. It's your turn tomorrow.
10
Trump is proposing a new sanction for crimes committed in the past. It used to be that illegals convicted of felonies might be deported upon conviction. Now, he wants to go back and deport every illegal ever convicted. There is a strong argument that he would have to rely on an impermissible retroactive law.
A law that increases the sanctions for a crime generally cannot be enforced retroactively. If you make a burglary a 5 year crime and later decide to deport all previously convicted burglars who are illegal that is almost surely impermissibly retroactive. And that is precisely what Trump is proposing. This is obviously an arcane legal argument. Fortunately, pretty much the same argument was made regarding a retroactive deportation law enacted by Bill Clinton The Supreme Court, in that case, decided illegals couldn't be retroactively deported. Calcano-Martinez v. INS, INS v. St. Cyr.
Now that the Republicans are in power, it's time for the Democrats to go to the courts and block improper Republican legislation. What's good for the goose ...
A law that increases the sanctions for a crime generally cannot be enforced retroactively. If you make a burglary a 5 year crime and later decide to deport all previously convicted burglars who are illegal that is almost surely impermissibly retroactive. And that is precisely what Trump is proposing. This is obviously an arcane legal argument. Fortunately, pretty much the same argument was made regarding a retroactive deportation law enacted by Bill Clinton The Supreme Court, in that case, decided illegals couldn't be retroactively deported. Calcano-Martinez v. INS, INS v. St. Cyr.
Now that the Republicans are in power, it's time for the Democrats to go to the courts and block improper Republican legislation. What's good for the goose ...
6
Today, this year, right now is the time for American citizens to recognize our role in as leaders in the global community. Trump is about to be confirmed as president because of an outdated form of elitism (the Electoral College), but Trump rose to power because our democracy is following and not leading the global community. The United States, once again, is struggling to overcome injustice and the perennial temptation of governance through tyranny.
A new, temporary form of elitism is needed. The best and the brightest, the most eloquent and creative citizens, must turn their attention to the history of the world. The best and the brightest, so tempted to seek self-worth through affluence, joining the top 1%, the top 10%, the top 20%, can and must redirect their creative genius. They can enjoy their collections of art or antique cars. They can visit places that won't survive climate change. Or they can make a difference in the history of the world. They can guide us beyond this Trump debacle and reform democracy.
People in other countries who want fair voting, checks and balances in leadership, a common document that shapes public debate, the rule of law, and the peaceful transition of power are watching us. *The world* is watching. Such a big stage for your sacrifice and service.
Trump and his entourage are clever and manipulative. They are not the best and the brightest. Don't give them the world.
A new, temporary form of elitism is needed. The best and the brightest, the most eloquent and creative citizens, must turn their attention to the history of the world. The best and the brightest, so tempted to seek self-worth through affluence, joining the top 1%, the top 10%, the top 20%, can and must redirect their creative genius. They can enjoy their collections of art or antique cars. They can visit places that won't survive climate change. Or they can make a difference in the history of the world. They can guide us beyond this Trump debacle and reform democracy.
People in other countries who want fair voting, checks and balances in leadership, a common document that shapes public debate, the rule of law, and the peaceful transition of power are watching us. *The world* is watching. Such a big stage for your sacrifice and service.
Trump and his entourage are clever and manipulative. They are not the best and the brightest. Don't give them the world.
8
In my view, all illegals that don't have an American child should be immediately deported.
99% of them are low-skill and compete directly with lower-skill Americans, who have already been screwed enough by NAFTA and "free" trade.
Elites (who don't work with their hands) seem to have a lot of empathy for illegals, but none for their fellow Americans. But how would you feel if you woke up someday and suddenly discovered 15M illegals competing for your job?
99% of them are low-skill and compete directly with lower-skill Americans, who have already been screwed enough by NAFTA and "free" trade.
Elites (who don't work with their hands) seem to have a lot of empathy for illegals, but none for their fellow Americans. But how would you feel if you woke up someday and suddenly discovered 15M illegals competing for your job?
15
Oh no! How will San Francisco, New York, Boston and Chicago get by without federal funding?!
A sincere thank you to these cities for having a better moral compass than our federal government.
A sincere thank you to these cities for having a better moral compass than our federal government.
8
Ask Katie Steinle's family how they feel about sanctuary cities and illegal alien criminals being cut loose. They sued the city of San Francisco and their police dept. for allowing a seriously dangerous man to roam the streets and their daughter paid the ultimate price of her life that decision. There are many families like the Steinles in America. Defunding sanctuary cities may be a good start.
Recently where I live, an intoxicated Brazilian national killed the driver of another car then immediately fled the country. Happens more than we know.
Recently where I live, an intoxicated Brazilian national killed the driver of another car then immediately fled the country. Happens more than we know.
13
Not only does Mr. Trump not understand "due process," he is apparently very unaware of the legal, administrative and logistical process as well. Perhaps someone in his Tower can read this editorial to him and try to explain it.
Were the entire foolish ghoulishness of his proposal(s) not so absurd, one could almost laugh at the threat to withhold federal funds from cities in California, New York and Illinois. The first two states here are the nation's largest. If they (we) withhold all our federal tax payments, the federal government would verge on bankruptcy. We're the Blue State folks who are not "overdrawn" in our federal accounts.
Trump should know that any deal means negotiating. Threats simply invite strong responses. Someone needs to tell him that the economically sound, job-creating, multi-cultural, innovative and successful states (all blue states, by the way) are perfectly capable - and willing - to cut off his silly nonsense.
Were the entire foolish ghoulishness of his proposal(s) not so absurd, one could almost laugh at the threat to withhold federal funds from cities in California, New York and Illinois. The first two states here are the nation's largest. If they (we) withhold all our federal tax payments, the federal government would verge on bankruptcy. We're the Blue State folks who are not "overdrawn" in our federal accounts.
Trump should know that any deal means negotiating. Threats simply invite strong responses. Someone needs to tell him that the economically sound, job-creating, multi-cultural, innovative and successful states (all blue states, by the way) are perfectly capable - and willing - to cut off his silly nonsense.
11
For the president elect's nonsense, I have but one word: Resist!
7
This is not just Trump's plan. It is also Mitch McConnell, Paul Ryan, the Freedom Caucus and the rest of the elected officials who will fall in line.
Trump is just their instrument and shield. She'd light on the whole sorry bunch and maybe the Trump supporter will see how manipulated they are by the Reps.
Trump is just their instrument and shield. She'd light on the whole sorry bunch and maybe the Trump supporter will see how manipulated they are by the Reps.
1
Illegal immigration is a corrosive problem wherever it exists. It is not right, it is not acceptable and it must not be tolerated. Add illegal immigration to a criminal record and you have a double whammy. All this bleeding heart nonsense about such thinking being draconian is drama queenism. The vast majority of Americans - even legal immigrants, want something effective DONE to stop it. Once again, the NYT bias to support the alarmists, sympathizes and apologists is just wrong and out of step: this medium is doomed.
13
Does anyone know when the new Death Star is going to be completed? And more importantly, does the Trump sign go above or below the trench?
5
The problem with deportations of three million neighbors is much larger than logistics, building concentration camps for them, and creating a dragnet force. The resistance to these actions inside the US will be matched by the induced hatred of US in Mexico (130 million people) and in a larger Latin America (626 million) – right at our border. There countries will likely to retaliate by allying with US adversaries. Adding to this the insulted by Trump muslims – 1.6 billion of them - will make America an isolated, hated and therefore insecure country. Who needs it?
13
So if there are 2 million that will be the number. We really don't know how many there are but removing them will allow us to finally both know how many there are and eventually minimize their numbers. Now if we don't get cooperation from many cities it will take longer and be less effective. More spin by the progressive, biased NYT.
7
A sensible editorial! Trump should pay attention. Given the situation in this country I would avoid such strong words as "purge" because they just hit the wrong button with anti-Trump protesters who tend to view the election of Trump as an apocalypse.
Due process in the case of an immigrant with no legal right to live and work here can be modified. It is simply an issue of procedure (there is no "substantive due process" right to live here illegally.)
The first thing we should do is change our amnesty laws and procedures so that the only people that can claim amnesty are those coming from a location that has been pre-designated by the President and Congress as having imminent life threatening conditions. There is no reason to separately adjudicate thousands of amnesty cases based on the same general facts and circumstances.
Second, amnesty should only apply to those strictly following the procedures required by law--apply in their home country at the local U.S. embassy. Anyone showing up uninvited at our border is disqualified.
Finally, our grant of an amnesty safe haven should be temporary. We are not going to solve all the world's problems by importing immigrants. We can provide shelter from the storm. But a civil war in Africa or Latin America should not be a ticket to permanent U.S. citizenship.
These change alone will greatly free up the immigration courts.
The first thing we should do is change our amnesty laws and procedures so that the only people that can claim amnesty are those coming from a location that has been pre-designated by the President and Congress as having imminent life threatening conditions. There is no reason to separately adjudicate thousands of amnesty cases based on the same general facts and circumstances.
Second, amnesty should only apply to those strictly following the procedures required by law--apply in their home country at the local U.S. embassy. Anyone showing up uninvited at our border is disqualified.
Finally, our grant of an amnesty safe haven should be temporary. We are not going to solve all the world's problems by importing immigrants. We can provide shelter from the storm. But a civil war in Africa or Latin America should not be a ticket to permanent U.S. citizenship.
These change alone will greatly free up the immigration courts.
10
What would happen if a U.S. citizen illegally entered Mexico? Severe jail time and deportation. Why should U.S. immigration laws be any less strict than Mexico's?
14
TAKEN AWAY
American citizens all across the country are fearful of what in our lives might be taken away. Will President-Elect Trump take away our civil liberties, our right to due process, our fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, our right to control our bodies, our health care, our clean air, our right to vote?
It is astounding that Trump is basing his Presidency on THREAT. Using his favorite hate and division, he loves to keep people in 'suspense'. He loves to keep people waiting. Waiting for him to say something, do something. FEAR.
This is how he plans to govern?
All American citizens who reject this must come together. We have time to plan.
Like the many Mayors across our nation who have declared their opposition to any 'round up' of immigrants, we can plan now to stop this. We can mitigate our fear of what will be taken away by starting to plan now.
American citizens all across the country are fearful of what in our lives might be taken away. Will President-Elect Trump take away our civil liberties, our right to due process, our fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, our right to control our bodies, our health care, our clean air, our right to vote?
It is astounding that Trump is basing his Presidency on THREAT. Using his favorite hate and division, he loves to keep people in 'suspense'. He loves to keep people waiting. Waiting for him to say something, do something. FEAR.
This is how he plans to govern?
All American citizens who reject this must come together. We have time to plan.
Like the many Mayors across our nation who have declared their opposition to any 'round up' of immigrants, we can plan now to stop this. We can mitigate our fear of what will be taken away by starting to plan now.
4
Mr. Trump provides the test democracies fear most: how to protect ourselves from a falsely elected demagogue who would destroy us through falsely "legal" means. It will require careful diligence and vigilance over the Trump years to save our democracy.
7
Unaware or in denial about Due Process?
I suspect Trump just doesn't care about Due Process. Donald Trump is a malignant narcissist, who even prior to his being elected to the US Presidency via a campaign which completely lacked any decency or conscience, and in fact was the opposite of those things, believed he is in fact an island, the Island of Trump, where his greatness and uniqueness separate him from all other human beings and mean he is not, or at least should not be, beholden to the usual mundane restraints of the rest of the human race.
And unfortunately, 59 million Americans just rubber stamped that belief, even proved it to be true by rewarding a campaign of filth to succeed. Rewarding Donald Trump and his campaign - a narcissistic endeavor only - was like handing handing a 140 acre poppy field to a heroin addict. We, as a country, did indeed just tell this narcissist that he is in fact as great as he believes himself to be and that, yes, Donald, the world does actually revolve around you. A social worker friend once told me that, when narcissism breaks, the result is psychopathology. I think we did get a glimpse of that whenever Trump felt he was losing and in the debates when HRC was topping him. Election was rigged; he would become incoherent with rage at the affront; everyone was corrupt...until he won. Then all was, once again, very right with the world. Up next, his victory tour. Feed a narcissist: Watch for the regurgitation. It's ugly.
I suspect Trump just doesn't care about Due Process. Donald Trump is a malignant narcissist, who even prior to his being elected to the US Presidency via a campaign which completely lacked any decency or conscience, and in fact was the opposite of those things, believed he is in fact an island, the Island of Trump, where his greatness and uniqueness separate him from all other human beings and mean he is not, or at least should not be, beholden to the usual mundane restraints of the rest of the human race.
And unfortunately, 59 million Americans just rubber stamped that belief, even proved it to be true by rewarding a campaign of filth to succeed. Rewarding Donald Trump and his campaign - a narcissistic endeavor only - was like handing handing a 140 acre poppy field to a heroin addict. We, as a country, did indeed just tell this narcissist that he is in fact as great as he believes himself to be and that, yes, Donald, the world does actually revolve around you. A social worker friend once told me that, when narcissism breaks, the result is psychopathology. I think we did get a glimpse of that whenever Trump felt he was losing and in the debates when HRC was topping him. Election was rigged; he would become incoherent with rage at the affront; everyone was corrupt...until he won. Then all was, once again, very right with the world. Up next, his victory tour. Feed a narcissist: Watch for the regurgitation. It's ugly.
4
Are there really a half-million "unauthorized" immigrants in NYC? Wow.
I like the new term for people who broke the law to get here, btw. But maybe it should be changed to "immigrants without authorization", making the status even more benign. Like drivers without a license or something.
Indeed, Trump may have some difficulty finding two to three million immigrants who have committed crimes other than failing to follow our immigration laws, so might be hard-pressed to deliver on that promise.
But really, what politician doesn't promise more than he can deliver? Guantanamo is still open and we are still at war (more or less) in both Iraq and Afghanistan. As I recall, Trump's predecessor promised otherwise eight long years ago.
I like the new term for people who broke the law to get here, btw. But maybe it should be changed to "immigrants without authorization", making the status even more benign. Like drivers without a license or something.
Indeed, Trump may have some difficulty finding two to three million immigrants who have committed crimes other than failing to follow our immigration laws, so might be hard-pressed to deliver on that promise.
But really, what politician doesn't promise more than he can deliver? Guantanamo is still open and we are still at war (more or less) in both Iraq and Afghanistan. As I recall, Trump's predecessor promised otherwise eight long years ago.
1
The first people in line to oppose Trump on deporting 3 million people are the corporations that rely on this labor for profits. And the people that work at these corporations are the ones that voted for Trump.
People will go against their best economic interests to perpetuate their prejudice and hate against people of color and other religions.
America just tried to vote out Globalization - we are 100 years too late.
People will go against their best economic interests to perpetuate their prejudice and hate against people of color and other religions.
America just tried to vote out Globalization - we are 100 years too late.
5
Trump will not go after just undocumented immigrants with felony convictions. He will go after those with DUIs, misdemeanor theft offenses, misdemeanor battery offenses with domestic violence enhancers, misdemeanor sexual assault (offensive touching), misdemeanor possession of firearms, misdemeanor drug possession and so on. Most will be charged in immigration court with only either entering the country illegally or overstaying a visa because those charges are easily proven and often the conviction itself does render a person deportable. The conviction often merely helps the government find the person.
He will also pursue lawful permanent residents with criminal records. There is no statute of limitations that renders a criminal conviction harmless in immigration court. People convicted of crimes in 70s, 80s and 90s will find themselves in immigration court, even if they have been convicted of only one crime.
The effort will be incredibly expensive and all at taxpayer expense. This means either tax increases or savage cuts to other federal budgets to divert funds to the Department of Homeland Security and the Department of Justice.
He will also pursue lawful permanent residents with criminal records. There is no statute of limitations that renders a criminal conviction harmless in immigration court. People convicted of crimes in 70s, 80s and 90s will find themselves in immigration court, even if they have been convicted of only one crime.
The effort will be incredibly expensive and all at taxpayer expense. This means either tax increases or savage cuts to other federal budgets to divert funds to the Department of Homeland Security and the Department of Justice.
3
We find ourselves at a point where up is down and down is up and right is wrong and wrong is right. Where $2.00/gallon gasoline is bad and 4.9% unemployment is worse. Where consumer protections in banking and healthcare are bad and regulating Wall Street is hurting the middle class. Where 10 million new jobs is the result of "job killing legislation" and where an expanding workforce which consists of immigrants is negative for growth and where Russia is commended for hacking our Nation's computers and where using a private email server which could have been hacked by Russia is worse than the President-elect who outwardly proclaims his love for Russia. Where taking away health insurance from 25 million people is a positive for our Nation. Where it is a "right" to not have health care and where claiming falsely that our Nation would experience "hyper inflation unseen since Weimar Germany" is correct economic analysis which is rewarded with more control of government. Where giving $2.5 trillion in tax breaks to the 1% will cure income inequality and where fake news stories out number real news stories and where winning means getting less votes than your opponent. Where no one coming home from foreign wars in body bags is bad. Play along America and when you think something is right avoid it and when there is a clear path to being wrong then embrace it so we can be great again. Makes perfect sense when you look at it from an up is down and down is up viewpoint.
8
I would like to thank all the white voters who voted for Trump and have helped usher in one of the most right wing, fascist administrations since the Nixon years. Americans still are not coming to grips with the fact they through the baby out with the bath water. Republicans need to stop watching Fox News and start to realize it is OK to vote for a Democratic candidate when the Republican candidate is such a terrible choice.
12
"Mr. Trump and his Republican allies in Congress have threatened to cut off federal funding to immigrant-friendly “sanctuary cities” like San Francisco, Chicago and New York."
So for residents of a sanctuary city (like one of the three most economically productive centers of commerce in the world), if the federal government cuts off funding by right of their 'unpopularly' elected power in order to compel political action against the democratic will of the region, does that mean we can cut off our federal tax monies?
They do know that the tax base in these places puts more into the federal pot than they get out, right?
So for residents of a sanctuary city (like one of the three most economically productive centers of commerce in the world), if the federal government cuts off funding by right of their 'unpopularly' elected power in order to compel political action against the democratic will of the region, does that mean we can cut off our federal tax monies?
They do know that the tax base in these places puts more into the federal pot than they get out, right?
5
The devil is always in the details.
How are they going to find these people - these 2-3 million who know who they are and will be trying to hide? Home invasions? Breaking down doors? "After hour" searches of stores and companies and farms and factories and apartment buildings?
Will they be stopping Hispanics in the streets who resemble people the troops are looking for and asking them for their papers? How will those who have been stopped and cleared avoid being stopped again and again? Will they have to wear some badge or patch to say they have been determined to be legal? How long til there's a brisk trade in those?
Where will the 2-3 million be kept while due process is being observed? In overcrowded jails and prisons? It costs about $49,000 a year to keep one prisoner in prison, probably less than that in jails - but still a substantial cost to taxpayers for housing, guarding, food, clothes, medical care and legal representation while they are going through the deportation process.
Then transportation to the border under guard, with provisions supplied, and supervision until Mexican authorities - who are not known for their speed and who have no incentive to take these known criminals back into their country, arrange to have them identified, their home states identified, and officials from those areas to come to take them into custody.
Great start to a new, big and beautiful immigration policy, Donald
How are they going to find these people - these 2-3 million who know who they are and will be trying to hide? Home invasions? Breaking down doors? "After hour" searches of stores and companies and farms and factories and apartment buildings?
Will they be stopping Hispanics in the streets who resemble people the troops are looking for and asking them for their papers? How will those who have been stopped and cleared avoid being stopped again and again? Will they have to wear some badge or patch to say they have been determined to be legal? How long til there's a brisk trade in those?
Where will the 2-3 million be kept while due process is being observed? In overcrowded jails and prisons? It costs about $49,000 a year to keep one prisoner in prison, probably less than that in jails - but still a substantial cost to taxpayers for housing, guarding, food, clothes, medical care and legal representation while they are going through the deportation process.
Then transportation to the border under guard, with provisions supplied, and supervision until Mexican authorities - who are not known for their speed and who have no incentive to take these known criminals back into their country, arrange to have them identified, their home states identified, and officials from those areas to come to take them into custody.
Great start to a new, big and beautiful immigration policy, Donald
8
Trump's plan is simple and historically precedented. When the ruler wants you deported or imprisoned, he declares you (or your race, or your religion, or your orientation) to categorically be "criminals." Poof! He's only deporting "criminals."
Think I'm joking? Think I'm exaggerating? Just look at his right hand man Bannon for proof this nation will be following 20th century fascism's road map.
Think I'm joking? Think I'm exaggerating? Just look at his right hand man Bannon for proof this nation will be following 20th century fascism's road map.
9
The witch hunt unfolds in all its ugly costume jewelry. Now it holds real power, with all the mindkess cruelty foreshadowed by months of vindictive rhetoric. To thise who took Trump seriously but not literally: you should have taken him literally.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
www.endthemadnessnow.org
4
What do the New York Times, Donald Trump, the Migration Policy Institute, and I have in common?
None of us have any idea how many illegal aliens there are in the U.S.
None of us have any idea how many illegal aliens there are in the U.S.
6
Wait until labor shortages begin to occur and businesses start to complain. Miraculously, the deportations will cease.
4
Why is this hard? There will never be a signpost that says this is the planned "deal" Mr. Trump wants, NPD rules. Instead, whatever happens will become the plan all along and Mr. Trump keeps being a huge success. We're all being played, even Mr. Trump.
There are not 2-3 million criminals in the undocumented. There are 11 million. Because they all violated the law and came here illegally. They all broke the law. The majority are hard working good people who work for less than what most Americans accept as reasonable pay. And that is why wages are flat in many communities around the country. It is all about supply and demand. If there are low wage jobs to be filled and Americans will not fill them, and there is a supply of illegals to fill those positions, wages will remain stagnant and Americans out of work.
9
Will he begin by jailing himself?
1
Where is our mercy in the righteous pursuit of law enforcement? In the public sphere guilt via innuendo and blatant fomenting of racism via political rhetoric and not just false propaganda, but hateful attitudes towards our neighbors. This is what Trump and Bannon has brought us already.
We are on track to become the 'papers or-else' nation, or perhaps we will be able to choose to have an official tattoo that we can have scanned by authorities as we move about. The world of searches without probable cause is moving to its next level. And the "solution" you can already see in the federal TSA process. EVERYONE will have to have their papers in order to prove they belong, only not just between borders, but everywhere. It's gonna be YUGE. (sorry have to have some sense of humor to process all this).
Our only hope and it remain dim, is that enough Republicans with judgement will stand up inside the system while the rest of us find the leaders who can instill confidence in enough voters to wake up to what is unfolding before us: an administration populated by those willing to exploit racism and hatred in order to gain power and they don't appear to be evolving. Trump appears unable or unwilling to understand many of the likely consequences. I hope Obama is able to get through to him on this specifically, ASAP.
We are on track to become the 'papers or-else' nation, or perhaps we will be able to choose to have an official tattoo that we can have scanned by authorities as we move about. The world of searches without probable cause is moving to its next level. And the "solution" you can already see in the federal TSA process. EVERYONE will have to have their papers in order to prove they belong, only not just between borders, but everywhere. It's gonna be YUGE. (sorry have to have some sense of humor to process all this).
Our only hope and it remain dim, is that enough Republicans with judgement will stand up inside the system while the rest of us find the leaders who can instill confidence in enough voters to wake up to what is unfolding before us: an administration populated by those willing to exploit racism and hatred in order to gain power and they don't appear to be evolving. Trump appears unable or unwilling to understand many of the likely consequences. I hope Obama is able to get through to him on this specifically, ASAP.
2
There are several comments here that imply we should ignore the illegal immigrant laws because it will affect fruit prices.first off, exploiting people to pay less for ag products is despicable and unamerican. Second, Ur already paying the hidden costs of this situation. Education, criminal justice, social, medical of our dishonest exploitive system. Make employers hire people here legally and make them pay the true cost up front that industry now passes on to us .
5
Does that include Trumps employees?
3
There are hundreds of thousands of undocumented workers in the United States. Farmworkers, Laborers, & Home Health Caretakers.
These are overwhelmingly jobs that Americans will not or cannot do. Not at
the rock-bottom, often below minimum wage, that employers pay now. Thats what allows illegal immigration for decades. We need the cheap labor! Agribusiness has no intention of paying a living wage. Look at the wages undocumented workers receive across the board. Do you think Trump is going to touch these people - the underpaid workforce in America? I don't think so.
These are overwhelmingly jobs that Americans will not or cannot do. Not at
the rock-bottom, often below minimum wage, that employers pay now. Thats what allows illegal immigration for decades. We need the cheap labor! Agribusiness has no intention of paying a living wage. Look at the wages undocumented workers receive across the board. Do you think Trump is going to touch these people - the underpaid workforce in America? I don't think so.
4
Da Donald's ploy here sounds like the beginning of Nazification of the USA; which is probably perfectly OK with Ryan, McConnell and "Der Untergang" majority of the GOP.
"Liz Warren and Sherrod Brown for Dems in 2020"!
Save your sanity.
Save your country.
Save the planet. (The latter 2, alas, may be too late)
"Liz Warren and Sherrod Brown for Dems in 2020"!
Save your sanity.
Save your country.
Save the planet. (The latter 2, alas, may be too late)
4
Even in my progressive community, people are really afraid. In my faith community, and in the interfaith coalition we are a part of, we are hearing stories from immigrants who fear that their family members will be deported, Jews who fear a rise in anti semitism, Muslims who fear being targeted by hate crimes and forced onto a registry, and LGBTQ friends fear hate crimes and a Supreme Court that will invalidate their marriages.
We are going to get through this. We are going to band together to protect the most vulnerable among us. We are organizing. This isn't the end, it's the beginning.
We are going to get through this. We are going to band together to protect the most vulnerable among us. We are organizing. This isn't the end, it's the beginning.
5
Trump won the presidency largely on the basis of closing the borders and expelling the millions of illegal aliens already here. If he doesn't do that, he will have lost his electoral support. Of course, the NYT and Democrats would love for that to happen so they present so many falsely "empathetic" appeals for him to ditch his voters to cause just that situation to occur. This is progressive cynicism at its best, hey? :-/
2
Hi tech and Free Trade have decreased the number of jobs available for workers with no more than a high school diploma. Why then, do we let illegal immigrants take many of the remaining jobs?
There are likely a great many more people living here illegally than acknowledged. The media commonly cites a figure of 11 - 12 million without explaining that this is dependent on self-reporting to the Census Bureau. The dubiousness of this figure is underlined by a paper on the Bureau’s web site by Eric B. Jensen, Renuka Bhaskar, and Melissa Scopilliti which lists several reasons why many of the undocumented would not report themselves. It concludes that foreign-born Hispanic males are likely the most under-counted group.
These people have flooded the labor market. They are filling jobs previously held by Americans, and their large numbers are keeping employers from having to raise wages, offer benefits, or improve working conditions.
Perhaps the NYT could report on research that has found correlations between regions with high numbers of American citizens on social security disability to those where illegal immigrants are now filling the jobs citizens once held. The implication is that citizens who can no longer find work have turned to social security, out of desperation. They are claiming mental problems or inflating other ailments to qualify. If illegal immigrants were not taking jobs and depressing wages, they would be working.
There are likely a great many more people living here illegally than acknowledged. The media commonly cites a figure of 11 - 12 million without explaining that this is dependent on self-reporting to the Census Bureau. The dubiousness of this figure is underlined by a paper on the Bureau’s web site by Eric B. Jensen, Renuka Bhaskar, and Melissa Scopilliti which lists several reasons why many of the undocumented would not report themselves. It concludes that foreign-born Hispanic males are likely the most under-counted group.
These people have flooded the labor market. They are filling jobs previously held by Americans, and their large numbers are keeping employers from having to raise wages, offer benefits, or improve working conditions.
Perhaps the NYT could report on research that has found correlations between regions with high numbers of American citizens on social security disability to those where illegal immigrants are now filling the jobs citizens once held. The implication is that citizens who can no longer find work have turned to social security, out of desperation. They are claiming mental problems or inflating other ailments to qualify. If illegal immigrants were not taking jobs and depressing wages, they would be working.
7
Well, I guess, under Trump, Pence and now Sessions, the federal government really will become the enemy, and it will be up to the states and cities to protect citizens who are minding their own business, adding to the economy, and not doing anything wrong.
3
I wonder if this Trump plan is the first step to "ethnic cleansing American Style." Most of us can remember what happened in the Balkans and Rwanda. Hopefully, the American people don't help support such shameful, inhumane acts.
1
And think of all those people who were, and continue to believe that registering guns will lead to "them coming to take our guns away". This raises it to a whole different level, and one that I fear is more plausible.
1
Our sense of decency and respect of others seems to have left us. It has now been replaced with racism, misogyny, and bullying. Hopefully, this is only a temporary setback for in our quest for equal treatment of all.
I don't think a Trump presidency can flourish in this country if this is the prevailing attitude in his administration. When his fake promises can no longer be met, his demoralized supporters will desert him in droves.
Why they initially believed him remains the question. Everyone has an opinion, from voter anger to voter suppression to voter apathy to James Comey. Add in Fox and all of the other fake news sites, and you get the picture.
Four years will pass quickly. How to limit the damage will be the greater cause.
I don't think a Trump presidency can flourish in this country if this is the prevailing attitude in his administration. When his fake promises can no longer be met, his demoralized supporters will desert him in droves.
Why they initially believed him remains the question. Everyone has an opinion, from voter anger to voter suppression to voter apathy to James Comey. Add in Fox and all of the other fake news sites, and you get the picture.
Four years will pass quickly. How to limit the damage will be the greater cause.
After spending 2 years on a Federal Grand jury - yes, you serve twice a week for 2 years - hearing case after case of criminals who are also illegal rotate constantly in and out of the the country at will after serving in prison and then coming back and committing more horrible crimes, I don't care how many they are. Let us get them out and keep them out. Then we can focus on how to humanly deal with the law abiding illegals, have them pay a stiff fine and join the rest of us in the daylight.
6
America is dying. We are dying.
6
Yes, the bad people have auras which good people can see and so it's simple to just round up the criminals amongst the people in our country. That silly assertion is meant to emphasize that identifying criminals means having warrants already on file or convictions. Our country already expels undocumented serious felons criminals after they serve their sentences in prison and we expel many others who are not felons, besides. Trump is just making up his facts to suit his arguments. At what point do the American people make him act with honesty and serious consideration instead of indulging in his demagoguery.
4
Will the NYT now get serious and start reporting again? Start by exposing the dangerous snakes surrounding our "fearless leader", show us who they really are and what they will, and are, doing! Don't let them take the lead that you have to chase, we the people deserve a media which isn't afraid to stand up to extremists and let them know they can't get away with whatever they want because they think they have a mandate from god to set us straight again. We're about to see massive cuts to programs and agencies set up for our protection, and the NYT needs to be on top of it so we can find a way to curtail the damage, because there will be damage, but if you let them play the tune we're sunk. Are you up to it NYT?
4
My family immigrated to America from Scotland when I was 7 in 1964. We had to register as aliens every January. The TV ads sang, January is alien registration month. Kids bullied me because I had an accent and called me alien. My mother always spoke of the generosity of Americans. I never told her about the mean kids. Trump can try to lead us into isolationism, but that doesn't mean we'll let him. As Bernie reminds us, when enough Americans demand better from our government it listens.
6
We are in for dark times.
4
I am not sure why some narrow minded editorials and readers do not comprehend that all illegals are criminals. They crossed into a country and surpassed an international border without a visa and without authorization.
They avoided and evaded federal officials and police.
That is a crime and punishable by imprisonment.
It is of no excuse to say they are seeking a better life and a safer life. What would be Canada's response if 1 million people from poor areas of Chicago, Baltimore and other cities ran across the border and hid?
Trump and his team should deport, and then start to the process of immigration.
They avoided and evaded federal officials and police.
That is a crime and punishable by imprisonment.
It is of no excuse to say they are seeking a better life and a safer life. What would be Canada's response if 1 million people from poor areas of Chicago, Baltimore and other cities ran across the border and hid?
Trump and his team should deport, and then start to the process of immigration.
7
I am proud to be a resident of Seattle, a strong sanctuary city. Don't count us out on your future lists.
4
So, why is it so illegal or immoral to deport someone who is illegally settled in my country, even if the one is "terrific." The country's foundation is the rule of the law, and when it starts going down, the country starts going down. I think that if there is 11 million illegal immigrants, then 11 million of illegal immigrants should be deported. They can find a legal way to settle afterwards, but if you yield now, everything will be lost. Don't be out of common sense, just because you're a liberal. 2+2=4, whatever is your mindset.
Life isn't a fairytale.
Life isn't a fairytale.
8
So if i steal my neighbors TV but he doesnt find out for 10 years does that somehow make it no longer a crime? Same with immigration. Not our fault they did it illegally they knew the costs.
8
no argument with this editorial, but the editorial misses the real reality. trump, and his 'folks', don't give a fiddler's fig about facts. they're more interested in untrue anecdotes and hyperbole based on ether. there might be real problems, but choosing trump to fix them is like using an elephant gun to kill a hamster.....
4
It will not be necessary to actually deport the 3 million people. Once the effort begins in the states that object, self deportation will begin, or at least the illegal immigrants will flee to the sanctuary cities, where the police claim that their presence enhances public safety. So the cities that want them will have them.
As federal subsidies are pared back from sanctuary cities and states, the burden of providing services will shift to the appropriate communities, rather than burdening the residents of other states.
As federal subsidies are pared back from sanctuary cities and states, the burden of providing services will shift to the appropriate communities, rather than burdening the residents of other states.
5
Trump's plan to purge the nation comes closer to fruition with the nomination of Jeff Sessions, a racist from Alabama, as attorney General. This is no longer paranoia on the part of those who have opposed Trump. Several of my friends have suggested that I do not hold anger against those who are perpetuating this travesty against our country. But this does not mean that I will not take up a poster and march against this coming police state when the time comes. I know I am just a blind old guy who has no political influence, but I will do it anyway not in anger, but out of the love for my country.
7
According to a report issued by NYC's Independent Budget Office in 2013, federal grants make up 10% of our revenue. Time to start thinking about where those grants go so we can have an intelligent discussion on whether or not New Yorkers are able/willing to resist. Trump is full of hot air so this may never come to pass, but he made the threat and it is time for us to get serious.
1
There is another way to help undocumented workers other than offering them a path to citizenship.
Several of our major philanthropies, such as the Ford Foundation and George Soros’ Open Society Foundations, have been helping to organize the undocumented to make demands of our government. Wouldn’t it be better for the undocumented, if these foundations would instead organize them to return to their own countries and make demands for change there?
Now that the undocumented have had the chance to live here, they know what can be expected of government. If organized, they could demand changes in their own countries. The U.S. could make the aide, we give these countries, dependent on the changes they make. In the long run, the undocumented, if organized and supported by the U.S., could improve their countries for themselves and their countrymen.
Several of our major philanthropies, such as the Ford Foundation and George Soros’ Open Society Foundations, have been helping to organize the undocumented to make demands of our government. Wouldn’t it be better for the undocumented, if these foundations would instead organize them to return to their own countries and make demands for change there?
Now that the undocumented have had the chance to live here, they know what can be expected of government. If organized, they could demand changes in their own countries. The U.S. could make the aide, we give these countries, dependent on the changes they make. In the long run, the undocumented, if organized and supported by the U.S., could improve their countries for themselves and their countrymen.
2
Where was the outrage from The New York when Obama deported 2.5 million illegal immigrants? That is more than any other president before him.
Somehow liberal Obama gets the pass but Trump doesn't.
This continues to show the double standard used by The New York Times and its lack of journalistic credentials.
Somehow liberal Obama gets the pass but Trump doesn't.
This continues to show the double standard used by The New York Times and its lack of journalistic credentials.
5
With Alabama's racist Jeff Sessions as Attorney General, and Sheriff Arpaio waiting for a high-rank assignment in his Government, Trump who hardly read (and much less understood) the US Constitution is getting ready to establish a dictatorship & police state worthy of his "mentor" Vladmir Putin's Russia.
A high ranking GOP official, who had not supported Trump during the campaign, i.e., Elliot Cohen, recently tweeted after speaking with Trump's Transition team that "these (Trump) guys are angry, arrogant and bent on taking revenge on perceived enemies.."
The latter would (presumably) include "non-whites" and immigrants !
A high ranking GOP official, who had not supported Trump during the campaign, i.e., Elliot Cohen, recently tweeted after speaking with Trump's Transition team that "these (Trump) guys are angry, arrogant and bent on taking revenge on perceived enemies.."
The latter would (presumably) include "non-whites" and immigrants !
6
"There aren’t three million unauthorized immigrant criminals to deport." - from the article
The editors have forgotten that EVERY illegal immigrant is guilty of a felony.
The editors have forgotten that EVERY illegal immigrant is guilty of a felony.
6
As usual, the Times is outlining the worst case scenario when it reports on Trump's proposals. There will be deportations, but the reality is that they will take longer than he realizes. If the locals do not want to perform that duty, he has the option of calling out the national guard. We cannot continue to have our national identity shaped by the mass illegal immigration that has occurred over the last 30 years. It has gotten to the point where merely securing the borders is not enough; deportations must occur to roll back the numbers. But let's be clear: legal immigration from all countries with all races should continue when we can vet every immigrant the way it needs to be done in this atmosphere of 21st century terrorism. Until we secure our borders, and get a vetting system in place, we should suspend ALL immigration indefinitely.
7
For years the NYT has not differentiated between illegal and legal immigrants. With this editorial, you are now failing to differentiate between immigrants who are felons and those who are not. Are the NYT editors really advocating a "path to citizenship" for illegal immigrants who are also felons?
Even President Obama and Hillary Clinton were in favor of deporting illegal immigrants who had committed crimes in the US. So what if Trump's numbers are exaggerated. Focus on the "who" he says he will deport and not the number.
Even President Obama and Hillary Clinton were in favor of deporting illegal immigrants who had committed crimes in the US. So what if Trump's numbers are exaggerated. Focus on the "who" he says he will deport and not the number.
8
I don't understand why it's so difficult to round up illegal immigrants. All Trump needs to do is raid steel mills, coal plants, auto factories, machine shops, etc. These and other similar enterprises must be where the illegals are employed who took all those jobs from American citizens. Just stay away from chicken processing plants, lettuce farms, hotels, etc.
5
Trump did not say he was going to deport all illegal immigrants. He stated he would deport unauthorized criminal immigrants which he ESTIMATED were two to three million. Simply put, if the number was correct, that would be the number of deportations. If it wasn't correct, it would not be the number of deportations. It doesn't take a rocker scientist to arrive at the foregoing but the NYT Editorial Board can't seem to figure it out. Fair and accurate reporting from this Peronista era "newspaper"? I don't think so. I may just keep my subscription so I can laugh at the articles or I may not.
4
This is one of the editorials that shows how out of touch the NYT's is with most Americans. Take a drive from Manhattan to Long Island. Visit the communities, school districts and hospitals that are being financially crushed by the unchecked amount of illegal immigration from Central America.
What is the point of immigration laws, or any laws, if you get to pick and choose what gets enforced. I'm all for immigration, it is what has made America a great country, but it has to be done legally.
What is the point of immigration laws, or any laws, if you get to pick and choose what gets enforced. I'm all for immigration, it is what has made America a great country, but it has to be done legally.
9
Trump should use the old leftist technique of tying federal dollars to cooperation with the policy objective- in this case deportation. Make it painful enough and the obstructionist illegal invader shielders will turn over. Oh we can learn so much from the coercive Obama actions that the NYT and the left supported.
6
Any kind of "round-up" no matter who is being "rounded-up" is disgusting, and I will oppose it however I can. It reminds me of nothing so much as the army trucks rumbling down the streets of German cities and soldiers bursting into the houses of Jews, taking them away to the ghettos, where they waited for deportation to the camps. Sometimes they left food on the table and dinner cooking in the oven. Will Trump's plans allow his supporters to move into the homes of the deported, as the loyal Germans did, appropriating furniture, artwork, jewelry and cars? Will the police be authorized to just take away someone without the proper paperwork during a traffic stop, without phoning his/her family and just leave the car sitting in the road so some good American can come along and drive it away, without fear of being charged with stealing it? Will police storm into workplaces, demand to see ID, and if it can't be produced just take away the workers, never to be heard from again, like the "disappeared" in Venezuela or Chile? Even the notion of putting hundreds of thousands or, in Trump's numbers, millions of people in detention camps all across America while they await deportation is disgusting. Meanwhile, where will the millions and millions of dollars come from the pay for all this? The whole idea makes me sick to my stomach.
7
Donald Trump is over his head, he doesn't understand the implications of what he says, seems to have no internal monitor on his thoughts before he speaks and appears to lack any moral compass that would cause him to apologize when he is wrong. Our country deserves a better leader than this and the electoral college could decide to go with the popular vote and elect a qualified person to the most important job in our country.
5
I personally knew a Mexican citizen, working here as a sous-chef in a fine restaurant, with a green card, who had a big fight with his girlfriend. They both got loud and physical, but when the cops came, he took the rap to keep his girlfriend out of it. After 9/11, that was enough for the "migras", in the name of protecting us against terrorists, to take him away in handcuffs and deport him.
I'm still trying to figure out how that protected us against terrorism.
I'm still trying to figure out how that protected us against terrorism.
3
We have fallen through the rabbit hole. With Jeff Sessions as AG, I am sure he will set a pretty low bar for what constitutes a deportable offense. Like being brown? What have we done?
4
The “Take Care Clause” of the Constitution tasks presidents to take care the laws be faithfully executed.” When Donald Trump takes the Oath of Office, he will vow to "faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States.” These laws include the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act, which President Bill Clinton signed into law in 1996. This act, which passed with huge bi-partisan majorities in both houses, calls for the deportation of unauthorized immigrants. If the New York Times thinks we should grant citizenship or legal resident status to unauthorized immigrants who manage to sneak past the Border Patrol or overstay their visas, it should push for an amendment to the immigration law that says so. This would make entering the country illegally or overstaying a visa the easiest way to gain U.S. citizenship or legal resident status.
5
I work in the technology sector and consequently have labored side by side with immigrants for decades. Like my ancestors, who came here as immigrants, my colleagues are committed to self improvement through education of themselves and their children, volunteer in the community, help those in need and improve our local and national economy. If you like that smartphone in your hands, use the power of today's Internet to enhance your life, and even employ them as nannies and gardeners, contemplate for a minute what it will be like without them.
Legal immigrants will be subject to round-the-clock harassment, incarcerated with no evidence, and forced to spend their resources defending themselves and their families because law enforcement will be encouraged to "round them up." Anyone that does not appear white and wealthy to law enforcement will live in fear. Only detailed profiling of every living human being in the United States, a requirement to register your residential address with local government and a national identity card would diminish the likelihood of false arrest, incarceration and deportation. I do not see the Republican party pursuing this path as it crosses their definition of privacy.
We cannot rely on elected officials in our cities to establish "sanctuaries" as they are the equivalent of forced encampment. Each of us must now choose to defy this moral outrage or acknowledge you may someday be the victim.
Legal immigrants will be subject to round-the-clock harassment, incarcerated with no evidence, and forced to spend their resources defending themselves and their families because law enforcement will be encouraged to "round them up." Anyone that does not appear white and wealthy to law enforcement will live in fear. Only detailed profiling of every living human being in the United States, a requirement to register your residential address with local government and a national identity card would diminish the likelihood of false arrest, incarceration and deportation. I do not see the Republican party pursuing this path as it crosses their definition of privacy.
We cannot rely on elected officials in our cities to establish "sanctuaries" as they are the equivalent of forced encampment. Each of us must now choose to defy this moral outrage or acknowledge you may someday be the victim.
6
You guys are hyping a non-event. The Donald is the ultimate charlatan, the most famous snake oil salesman to ever live, and the hardest of blowhards. His claims and promises are nonsense and nearly everyone knows it.
None of the ridiculous promises are actually going to be delivered, that includes deportation, the wall, locking Hillary up and many more. These articles are essentially fearmongering an internet troll's point of view.
For anyone legitimately feeling scared, I would like to remind them that Donald is all talk, all bluster, a paper tiger who fooled an entire nation. His campaign promises are nonsensical, non constitutional, contradictory, and some downright impossible. The Republican establishment will take over and run office by proxy once Donald realizes he's completely over his head and out of his element and those campaign promises will dissolve into an embarrassing national memory. I think it is incredibly important right now to reassure these people that America is strong enough, is noble enough to fight for them. Calming fears and easing tensions should be priority number one right now.
None of the ridiculous promises are actually going to be delivered, that includes deportation, the wall, locking Hillary up and many more. These articles are essentially fearmongering an internet troll's point of view.
For anyone legitimately feeling scared, I would like to remind them that Donald is all talk, all bluster, a paper tiger who fooled an entire nation. His campaign promises are nonsensical, non constitutional, contradictory, and some downright impossible. The Republican establishment will take over and run office by proxy once Donald realizes he's completely over his head and out of his element and those campaign promises will dissolve into an embarrassing national memory. I think it is incredibly important right now to reassure these people that America is strong enough, is noble enough to fight for them. Calming fears and easing tensions should be priority number one right now.
2
Does anyone seriously object to deporting the illegal immigrants who have been convicted of serious crimes in their adopted county? A focus to deport them immediately, the 300,000 to 3,000,000 (depends on whose estimate you like) is an excellent plan. We can see how it goes over the next year or two while figuring out what else makes sense. If your family member is a felon and gets deported, it is sad for you but good for the rest of us.
14
What is going to happen when cops round up citizens in a Gestapo style dragnets, and said citizens sue the courts and win millions? Already some of my lawyer friends are salivating at the prospective 30% share
1
Even if they have not committed crimes, illegal immigrants are people who are here when they should not be under the laws of the United States. They certainly should leave, whether of their own accord or through deportation. They just might be a lower priority than other illegal immigrants for removal proceedings.
10
What if he quickly weakens our right to assembly, limits our access to the internet, controls the content of news and then starts to just take people away never to be seen again? That is my fear. Why can't this be stopped? He clearly is a danger to all of us.
2
There will be no internment camps, no registration for Muslim immigrants. He will deport nowhere close to the 2 to 3 million he says. He will likely deport the same number as President Obsma is doing. We should know by now, not to believe what he says he will do. It us entertainment, Replace I will, by I want to, I would like to, I think I can. It is purely for entertainment value. I prefer to see what he actually does.
Each of these proposals is well, impossible to illegal. I suggest the best response is "That's nice." Let it stand .... Give him no opportunity to backpedal. Start a column on all the things he said and what actually happened.
Each of these proposals is well, impossible to illegal. I suggest the best response is "That's nice." Let it stand .... Give him no opportunity to backpedal. Start a column on all the things he said and what actually happened.
2
Didn't his budget scenario state cuts to just about everything, but hands off defense and "public safety"? I guess that would support his law and order, and of course weeding out his bad hombres, hello police state.
Good article on the realities and complexities of an actual purge.
Good article on the realities and complexities of an actual purge.
3
Maybe Trumps first infrastructure building project will be a prison to house them all and a bus transit station at the border to deport them. This is like living in a Trump Twilight Zone.
1
And now it starts. Who will stop it?
1
It would be helpful if the New York Times stopped using the euphemism undocumented alien. Let’s identify them by what they are; illegal alien. We don’t call bank robbery undocumented withdrawal. The progressive community knows that using the word illegal if troublesome for their cause, so they conveniently substitute undocumented for illegal. Not only have the illegal aliens broken the law, but they continue to flaunt the law by staying in the United States. It is long past time that we either enforce the immigration laws or change them. Trump has it right.
12
If the Donald could deport FBI Director Comey, our Nation would be right as rain.
3
Either we have a country or we don't. I lived in the Philippines and a Middle Eastern country and if your visa wasn't in order you were toast. No rights if you committed a crime especially. We must reform our laws so that law abiding foreign workers can work and pay taxes here legally. A path to citizenship should be to get in line legally. Illegal entry should never be rewarded. Birth as a result of illegal entry should not be rewarded citizenship. Also, if Mexico wants our factories they should help stem the tide of illegals. Taking our jobs and sending us their poor to take care of seems like a bad deal for the US.
15
You cannot integrate economically without integrating economically. Immigrants seek opportunity in the north after US imports take away their jobs. Latino people have been in the USA since before it was the USA. We are connected. The goal of a whites only America is a dark fantasy that will result in the loss of basic human rights for many of all of us. The legal formalism of dehumanizing people based on being "illegal" lacks wisdom, judgment and morality. The case of the grown man being deported to Korea after being brought as an adopted infant is extremely inhumane. As is the idea of unleashing state violence on our communities.
3
Let's end this discussion once and for all. Yes, the vast majority of those who crossed the border are good people, who came here to achieve a better life, more opportunities, higher wages, better education for the kids, etc.
Let's make Mexico our 51st state. Then we can help all the Mexicans, not just those who cross the border. We can pay for better education throughout the new state of Mexico. Up the wages of everyone there. Increase their health care. Allow free movement of all their citizens throughout the rest of America.
Hillary was right. Open borders in the Americas would be a great thing!
Let's make Mexico our 51st state. Then we can help all the Mexicans, not just those who cross the border. We can pay for better education throughout the new state of Mexico. Up the wages of everyone there. Increase their health care. Allow free movement of all their citizens throughout the rest of America.
Hillary was right. Open borders in the Americas would be a great thing!
1
Sanctuary cities need to go the way of the buggy whip. Like so many ideas of the liberal left, the Sanctuary was for reporting crimes, not for breaking the laws of the Country. Instead of making sure that illegal immigrants aren't deported for reporting crime or being a witness, it has morphed into protection for criminals that are robbing, and killing in these cities. Get rid of them.
12
Maybe Trump will re-brand it as "virtual deportations." If the U.S. economy accelerates the way Wall Street is predicting it probably would swell the ranks to 15 million undocumented people. If Trump keeps it at 12 million, voila, your three million reduction.
1
Trump will "rid" the "nation" of "3,000,000 criminals" very easily. He will issue a press release through Hope Hicks or one of his other crypto-fascist flunkies announcing that he as "succeeded in deporting 3,040,023 known international criminals including rapists and drug dealers in a year or two. He will have a photo op of himself driving shotgun in a Humvee with a machine gun on the Arizona-Mexico border. The alt.right news will echo the false stories of various vanquished cartels. Meanwhile, business as usual, except billions in payoffs will be siphoned to accounts offshore in the name of a certain cello player from Russia, and one of the Trump family.
We have elected a psychopathic kleptocrat who believes in one thing: winning, by any means necessary. Don't be naive and argue the details. The issue is that we have sold our nation down the river to a plutocrat and psychopath who easily aligns with similar autocrats like Putin.
We have elected a psychopathic kleptocrat who believes in one thing: winning, by any means necessary. Don't be naive and argue the details. The issue is that we have sold our nation down the river to a plutocrat and psychopath who easily aligns with similar autocrats like Putin.
5
It's Catch-22. All undocumented immigrants are "illegal." They're all violating immigration law. So they can all be arrested and deported. Just ask Attorney General-designate Sessions.
1
I beg to differ. There are a great many violent felons among the illegal population, and hundreds of thousands are simply walking the streets as a result of releases under the Obama Administration. In 2013 and 2014 so many (some 80,000 plus), with fully one third what law enforcement calls category 1 ("the worst of the worst") that Rep. Lamar Smith of Texas, former Ranking Member of the House Judiciary Committee called this the "worst jail break in history." But how do we get to three million, a number that sounds very high but is likely accurate. Trump has said that all criminal aliens will deported, and this means if they have committed non-violent crimes, the sort of felony offenses that would land a US citizen in jail. Chief among these are: identity theft (using someone else's Social Security number), overstaying a visa, driving with forged licenses, using forged official documents of all kinds, lying to immigration officers or the police, membership in drug gangs like MS-13, working without work authorization, not to mention widespread spousal abuse. It is very easy to get to three million.
10
Trump will likely use his disorganized militia with guns to execute his plan à la Duterte of the Philippines. After all, they consider anyone in this country illegally to be a criminal by simply crossing the border to help their families back home and make America prosper.
I wonder how many American citizens they will manage to force out of this country through their extrajudicial means.
For shame.
I wonder how many American citizens they will manage to force out of this country through their extrajudicial means.
For shame.
2
I am not in favor of this inhuman "rounding up" of so-called criminals at all. And we know that this is one of the biggest lies Trump used to come to power. So, media should keep pushing the new administration to live up to the promises they traded votes for. He is sure to betray those who voted for him and we should not hesitate to show that.
3
The United States isn't Bisbee. There aren't enough boxcars any more either. The migra does not have the necessary police authority to arrest 'criminals' and let's see what the military has to say about imposing martial law so that the 'criminals' can be taken into federal custody. The problems, like all of Trump's ignorance, can't be overcome.
1
The sooner the 11 million illegal aliens are deported the better.
8
This whole concept of a Sanctuary City was silly and juvenile in the first place. For any city to simply state they're going to ignore federal law and to hell with them....ignores the ultimate whiplash that comes from having such ideological policies.
Minneapolis was expecting $850 million in 'free' federal money for a new light rail line, to be followed by another $850 million in 'free' federal money for an additional line.
The Mayor of Minneapolis says she's holding firm on keeping Minneapolis a Sanctuary city because it's only a million or two in lost funding.
Therein lies the problem with Mayor Hodges and the Democrats. They can't do math.
All this...to protect the cheap illegal labor doing dishes at the restaurants owned by liberals who don't want to pay FICA and other employment taxes?
Who better to hire? A $10/hour kid from North Minneapolis with a 10th grade education who you have to train, pay taxes, and benefits to? Or a 25 year old illegal immigrant who'l work for $8/hour off the books in cash so nobody ever asks where they're from...what their status is...or how much in FICA tax they've paid this year.
it's a cynical ploy by Progressives to keep cheap labor in their favorite food joints owned by their Progressive pals, and the gig is up.
Minneapolis was expecting $850 million in 'free' federal money for a new light rail line, to be followed by another $850 million in 'free' federal money for an additional line.
The Mayor of Minneapolis says she's holding firm on keeping Minneapolis a Sanctuary city because it's only a million or two in lost funding.
Therein lies the problem with Mayor Hodges and the Democrats. They can't do math.
All this...to protect the cheap illegal labor doing dishes at the restaurants owned by liberals who don't want to pay FICA and other employment taxes?
Who better to hire? A $10/hour kid from North Minneapolis with a 10th grade education who you have to train, pay taxes, and benefits to? Or a 25 year old illegal immigrant who'l work for $8/hour off the books in cash so nobody ever asks where they're from...what their status is...or how much in FICA tax they've paid this year.
it's a cynical ploy by Progressives to keep cheap labor in their favorite food joints owned by their Progressive pals, and the gig is up.
4
Deport them to where? Mexico can't be forced to take them. How about Mar-A-Lago?
2
THe 11 million illegals are breaking the law by remaining in the US. They need to return to their home countries. One feels sorry for people living poverty and war zones but the answer is not for all of them to come to the US. Some illegals work in agriculture. BUt most flock to cities. 500,000 illegals in the NY metro area, alone. A big driver of higher housing costs for law abiding citizens.
5
How about this . . Let's choose 2-3 major tourist and business destinations that supported Trump and which support and help implement the contemplated policy. Then -- BOYCOTT those cities. NYC and San Fran will get by without federal funds -- the other cities will have to get by without tourist dollars. I know who will blink first, as bullies always back down
1
Many American's are operating out of pure fear. Fear of losing something they may not have, or ever had or even know what it is they fear losing. I suspect what many fear losing is the "American Dream" which means different things to each of us. Sadly even with jailing and deportation the "Dream" will not be restored. Dream jobs that were 20th Century stables for many workers are not going to return unless workers are willing to work for minimum wage.
Close the borders, repeal all or portions of NAFTA, build a wall, deploy the military to the borders, impose a 50% tax on monies being wired outside the United States, I suppose these are all options but to what end. Would these actions improve the quality of life of American's and persons legally in the United States? I doubt it but those actions would help destabilize the Latin American countries dependent on trade and the flow of dollars to many immigrants home countries. A destabilized Latin America would eventually make life more difficult in the United States, which I suspect could become the Non-United States.
For those of you writing about due process you may want to consider President Lincoln's suspending the right of due process during the (un)Civil War. Do you really think the Republican majority in Congress would act to over ride the President's actions?
Close the borders, repeal all or portions of NAFTA, build a wall, deploy the military to the borders, impose a 50% tax on monies being wired outside the United States, I suppose these are all options but to what end. Would these actions improve the quality of life of American's and persons legally in the United States? I doubt it but those actions would help destabilize the Latin American countries dependent on trade and the flow of dollars to many immigrants home countries. A destabilized Latin America would eventually make life more difficult in the United States, which I suspect could become the Non-United States.
For those of you writing about due process you may want to consider President Lincoln's suspending the right of due process during the (un)Civil War. Do you really think the Republican majority in Congress would act to over ride the President's actions?
2
Ignoring the fact that attempting to deport large numbers of people would create a social, political, and legal mess of major proportion... Aren't you forgetting that "undocumented" immigrants are here illegally -- that they are, by definition, criminals?
6
If you are fine wth people illegally entering and staying in America, what's wrong with me robbing a store? Stealing a car? Committing welfare fraud? Is the rule that only non-Americans are excused for breaking our laws?
6
The problem stems also from the fact we never really developed a credible guest worker program. Had we done so many of the illegals could have come to work here in jobs Americans don't really want. The thought of American citizens cheering deportation squads on is chilling though, because during the Nazi era regular citizens turned in Jews in Germany and Poland. With the recent talk of Muslim registries and internment camps, could we be looking at deja vu all over again?
2
I live on Long Island. I pay over $7,000/year in school taxes. The children of illegal immigrants attend those same schools without paying anything. If I go to the ER, I pay whatever portion of the bill that my insurance does not cover. An illegal immigrant will pay nothing for those same services.
Do I want the children of illegal immigrants denied an education? No. Do I want illegal immigrants turned away from the ER? No. What I want is our political leaders to start enforcing our existing immigration laws. If we are truly a nation of laws, then we shouldn't be able to pick and choose the ones that we like.
Do I want the children of illegal immigrants denied an education? No. Do I want illegal immigrants turned away from the ER? No. What I want is our political leaders to start enforcing our existing immigration laws. If we are truly a nation of laws, then we shouldn't be able to pick and choose the ones that we like.
41
The citizens in the cities like San Francisco, Chicago and New York are the tax payers who fund the federal government so that it can send our hard earned money to the lazy indigent people who populate the red counties that gave us this monster.
I say let's do this just the opposite; let's withhold the tax dollars that fund the welfare of red states until they stop perpetuating the Civil War.
Then, just like when the good folks of Georgia passed laws to deter the migrant workers who pick their crops, they can watch their crops rot on the vines because no one will pick them. Or they can patch their own roofs. Or do any of the other work these yahoos are too white to do themselves.
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." H. L. Menchen
I say let's do this just the opposite; let's withhold the tax dollars that fund the welfare of red states until they stop perpetuating the Civil War.
Then, just like when the good folks of Georgia passed laws to deter the migrant workers who pick their crops, they can watch their crops rot on the vines because no one will pick them. Or they can patch their own roofs. Or do any of the other work these yahoos are too white to do themselves.
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." H. L. Menchen
4
He wants to deport or incarcerate dangerous criminals. That's what he said. You can't argue with that, so you're parsing a number he threw out. Obama deported 2.5 million people, but Trump is crucified for wanting to rid the country of illegal immigrant criminals. You hate Trump with a red hot passion; admit it.
9
It is very sad, next to that word "deplorable", that we are witnessing a neo-fascist Presidency. Fascism, has always been the convocation of business and government. Electing a Real Estate Mogul to the highest office in our Land was a step in that direction; coupled with misogony and xenophobia, it is all too real.
Americans voted from fear and the absorbtion of lies, tittilated by the voluptous Mrs. Trump and daughter Trump, into believing lie after lie until even the very young, who were not alive or cognicient during the Clinton Presidency, called Mrs. Clinton "crooked".
We have, with this nonsenical election, made ourselves the laughing stock of the World; but their laughter is more like rigid fear facing the Malevolent Clown now poised to rule the land.
Americans voted from fear and the absorbtion of lies, tittilated by the voluptous Mrs. Trump and daughter Trump, into believing lie after lie until even the very young, who were not alive or cognicient during the Clinton Presidency, called Mrs. Clinton "crooked".
We have, with this nonsenical election, made ourselves the laughing stock of the World; but their laughter is more like rigid fear facing the Malevolent Clown now poised to rule the land.
5
One would think people who enter and reside illegally in the United States would have a higher degree of respect for law and order. Evidently 3 million don't feel that way.. See ya!
I've been around the world enough to know that people everywhere want the same basic things: personal safety and a decent shot at surviving for themselves and their families. It is really simple. Those that go through the effort to migrate want those things too and are the least likely to commit crimes in a foreign country. 2~3 immigrant criminals is beyond the realm of possibility.
2
Purging is Giuliani's specialty. I'm amazed he hasn't been offered the Homeland Security job.
2
The only take away I have from the comments I am seeing is that way too many seem to think that the only people here illegally are Mexicans. Those with brown skin that can be racially profiled (I hate even saying such a thing but that's the world we live in). There are many more people here illegally that also have the skin color that some people seem to think is the "right" skin color for Americans, than most people even think about. There are also many more people with brown skin that are citizens of the USA that get harassed and called horrible names because some people assume because of their skin color that they are here illegally. A little concern for all people and their rights is needed by everyone.
4
I don't understand...why is it so hard to appreciate the "illegal" part of "illegal immigrant". These people have broken the law just by being here.
Would these elected officials blithely say that they're not going to enforce speed limits? Or the drinking age? Or assault? Why is this crime singled out as not worthy of enforcement?
Just because it will be hard doesn't mean that we should do nothing. Just because it will take time doesn't mean we should never start. Just because it may be sad in some cases doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done.
Our country needs its elected officials to respect the nation's laws. We need to respect those who have been waiting to immigrate legally by rejecting those that have jumped the queue.
Start with the convicted felons...seems like a good place to start. Then move from there. We may not get to a specific number, but we'll be making progress at enforcing our immigration laws.
Would these elected officials blithely say that they're not going to enforce speed limits? Or the drinking age? Or assault? Why is this crime singled out as not worthy of enforcement?
Just because it will be hard doesn't mean that we should do nothing. Just because it will take time doesn't mean we should never start. Just because it may be sad in some cases doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done.
Our country needs its elected officials to respect the nation's laws. We need to respect those who have been waiting to immigrate legally by rejecting those that have jumped the queue.
Start with the convicted felons...seems like a good place to start. Then move from there. We may not get to a specific number, but we'll be making progress at enforcing our immigration laws.
2
Very likely that data is being fed into computers about who's who in America right now.
There will be the illegals list, muslim list, gay list, asian, etc.
What Trump's minions are probably not giving much thought to, are the number of muslims his rhetoric has inspired.
A million new radicals? Ten million?
There will be the illegals list, muslim list, gay list, asian, etc.
What Trump's minions are probably not giving much thought to, are the number of muslims his rhetoric has inspired.
A million new radicals? Ten million?
4
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door." or "Build the wall!" Which country do you want to live in?
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door." or "Build the wall!" Which country do you want to live in?
64
You want to solve immigration problems? Legalize drugs. All drugs up to and including opiates. Manufacture them safely, tax them, and have them dispensed by doctors that also offer paths to addiction treatment for those who want to rebuild their lives as productive members of society rather than criminals. Evidence from places where these policies have been tried suggests this does not increase dependence rates but it does reduce crime and comes with a host of other benefits. Instantly, you reduce the grip that violent cartels have on troubled communities in Mexico and other countries. You eliminate the corruption that causes these nations to be ungovernable. You free up enormous amounts of money that are being spent on pointless drug wars taking place in Asia and South America. Immigration personnel no longer have to worry about seizing narcotics and can focus on terrorist threats. You stem the flow of illegal immigrants whose only choices at home are working for cartels or living in poverty. We will never solve immigration problems (and many others) when there is a multi-trillion dollar illicit international economy driven by American consumers.
4
I find it fascinating, ironic and somewhat crazy-contrary that, according to reports, GOP States are the most dependent on Government and are at the top of a list of States that benefit the most from Federal funds paid by the Democratic States they demonize. Robin-hood, socialism (oh! no that scary word!) at work? Take from the rich States and give to the poor States.
If Trump decides to punish, by cutting Federal funds, Immigrant-friendly “sanctuary cities”, like San Francisco, Chicago and New York for not doing as he demands will they still have to donate their Federal taxes to the 'Robin-Hood Fund' to benefit Republican States?
I am all for people being afforded the funds to live a dignified life and I do not believe rich states should hold more weight in decisions because they support poor states. But, I do believe in paying attention, listening, negotiation and a realistic understanding of the facts. Trump's threat to deny federal funds, in effect sanction cities that do not obey him is despotic.
If Trump decides to punish, by cutting Federal funds, Immigrant-friendly “sanctuary cities”, like San Francisco, Chicago and New York for not doing as he demands will they still have to donate their Federal taxes to the 'Robin-Hood Fund' to benefit Republican States?
I am all for people being afforded the funds to live a dignified life and I do not believe rich states should hold more weight in decisions because they support poor states. But, I do believe in paying attention, listening, negotiation and a realistic understanding of the facts. Trump's threat to deny federal funds, in effect sanction cities that do not obey him is despotic.
4
Purge away. The first step in any process is...the first step. How many criminal aliens will be deported if the government does nothing (which seems to be the NYT's preference)? And why does the Left always ignore the rights of the would-be immigrants in their home countries who have lawfully applied for entry into the US over the "rights" of the people who have simply invaded our shores?
5
Hasn't Obama deported more than 2.5 million illegal immigrants? Yep. More than any other president. And you guys are all up in arms about Trump and what he says he will do? How about a little 'let's wait and see.' Okay, that's asking way too much from the NYTEB and the far left. Yet not a word about Obama's actions. Wow, talk about bias. So much for Sulzberger's promise.
1
Are we to become a police state? This is not only shameful, it is a form of institutionalized violence that, in strict justice, deserves to be fought against; and if needed, with violence as well...lest we become willing co-participants in naked ethnic discrimination, 'shooting our own foot' by deporting millions of folks that make possible the smooth functioning of American society. We knew Trump was a vulgar bully, and a vicious and constant liar, and 'we' still elected him to the highest office. How is it even possible, a demagogue spewing fear and hate in such an unscrupulous way, so irresponsibly, now allowed to set policy with such arrogant cruelty and thoughtlessness? Are we out of our minds, complicit in his sick designs?
1
"Unauthorized immigrants."
That's a new one.
That's a new one.
2
Our Latino community will have to endure these discriminatory attacks, however do not want to see that by 2035, the Latino community will be the same size as the white and there will begin to see changes, today we are 55 million Latinos born in America and with the Growth rate in 2035 will be different, it is untenable. Today we suffer the horror of seeing our communities seriously vulnerable but time to time someone need to remember about the near future.
3
It would be great for federal dollars to flow to cites other than the very corrupt New York, Chicago and Los Angeles because they want to protect criminal illegal immigrants. Plus where do you think the 300,000 felons are going to go to live? Let the Democrats in these cities stew in their own cesspool of crime!
2
If the NYT Editorial Board felt that they were going to follow thru with the pledge to return to journalism and away from partisan spin and get out of the DNC talking points lockstep, this would have been a good start.
The inability of the NYTB to call people who are in our country under illegal means what they are is stunning. Then to further build your case on quotes from Los Angeles and NY politicians (yes the LAPD PC is a political position), further cements how far in the tank you and your team of writers really are.
This is not hard. If you broke our immigration laws to get into or stay in the USA, you are here illegally. You are now an illegal alien or immigrant. You are subject to the laws of immigration that exist in our country. No one, not the NYT or the DNC or Obama should be picking or choosing which laws are good and which laws are bad. That is the job of congress and state legislators. If there is a major disagreement, send it to the Supreme Court for interpretation.
Why is this so difficult? They are not undocumented (what is that anyway, some kind of "dog ate my homework" excuse?). They are illegal. Full Stop.
Get it together NYT Board, a lot of subscribers looking for you guys to return to journalism.
The inability of the NYTB to call people who are in our country under illegal means what they are is stunning. Then to further build your case on quotes from Los Angeles and NY politicians (yes the LAPD PC is a political position), further cements how far in the tank you and your team of writers really are.
This is not hard. If you broke our immigration laws to get into or stay in the USA, you are here illegally. You are now an illegal alien or immigrant. You are subject to the laws of immigration that exist in our country. No one, not the NYT or the DNC or Obama should be picking or choosing which laws are good and which laws are bad. That is the job of congress and state legislators. If there is a major disagreement, send it to the Supreme Court for interpretation.
Why is this so difficult? They are not undocumented (what is that anyway, some kind of "dog ate my homework" excuse?). They are illegal. Full Stop.
Get it together NYT Board, a lot of subscribers looking for you guys to return to journalism.
5
Simple solution: withhold federal funding from sanctuary cities and use that money to pay for more immigration officers and more immigration judges. If the local police will not cooperate, we just need to hire more federal officers to do the job, and it is only right that the funding for doing so comes from money that would otherwise go to the local police.
3
When is comes to immigrants, legal or illegal, a large part are of of the natural born and oh-so-patriotic Americans are often very critical of the former ones as well.
Whenever I - a naturalized citizen from what our Republicans so endearingly call 'socialist' Europe - dare to criticize anything in this supposedly greatest nation of the world, e.g. the lack of universal healthcare, etc., I get into big trouble.
Some fellow native born citizens from the right of the political spectrum tell me in no uncertain terms to go back to where I came from because I obviously don't like it here.
Tolerance of diverse opinions is and was never a forte of our self declared US patriots.
Whenever I - a naturalized citizen from what our Republicans so endearingly call 'socialist' Europe - dare to criticize anything in this supposedly greatest nation of the world, e.g. the lack of universal healthcare, etc., I get into big trouble.
Some fellow native born citizens from the right of the political spectrum tell me in no uncertain terms to go back to where I came from because I obviously don't like it here.
Tolerance of diverse opinions is and was never a forte of our self declared US patriots.
4
Anyone here illegally is automatically, and by definition, a criminal. Must agree with Fortress America.
Liberals hold up examples of places where many are done better, (according to the liberal perspective), than in the US, Let me pose a question: what do yo think happens to illegal immigrants in Switzerland or Germany? How about New Zealand? IMHO the only place which gets immigration right is New Zealand, and that is by not having any.
Liberals hold up examples of places where many are done better, (according to the liberal perspective), than in the US, Let me pose a question: what do yo think happens to illegal immigrants in Switzerland or Germany? How about New Zealand? IMHO the only place which gets immigration right is New Zealand, and that is by not having any.
4
Go for it.
This is what the Uhmurican people voted for.
And if you're someone complaining about this, and you didn't vote, then I really don't care one iota what you believe or have to say.
This is what the Uhmurican people voted for.
And if you're someone complaining about this, and you didn't vote, then I really don't care one iota what you believe or have to say.
1
Stock market at an all-time high, GOP dominant not dead, NY Times editorial board and readership screaming in mindless horror.
Sweet.
Sweet.
5
In his memoir, former President Lyndon Johnson wrote that "...the American people in their wisdom have never elected a mad man."
I guess we'll find out shortly.
I guess we'll find out shortly.
1
What did you expect, people who said there's no difference in the candidates? You elect a mad man, you get madness. Have fun.
DD
Manhattan
DD
Manhattan
4
Stop, Stop, Stop! The election is OVER and all of the huffing and puffing by the Narrative Times didn't amount to a hill of beans at the polling booth! Didn't the Narrative Times just write a letter to its dwindling subscriber base that it was going to stop this non-stop nonsense?
6
The real fight is about guaranteeing cheap labor to small businesses or contractors who continually abuse illegal immigrants with dirt wages, zero benefits, and labor violations!
Both sides of debate know full well that only a small increase in deportations will occur under Trump.
In the end there will still be millions of undocumented/unauthorized immigrants here and a steady supply still coming, especially from the failed nations in Central America.
GOP just wants to keep as many illegal as possible and make them afraid to stand up for their rights so the dirt cheap labor pool doesn't dry up.
Dems just want as many as possible to become legal so they can vote for them.
Both sides of debate know full well that only a small increase in deportations will occur under Trump.
In the end there will still be millions of undocumented/unauthorized immigrants here and a steady supply still coming, especially from the failed nations in Central America.
GOP just wants to keep as many illegal as possible and make them afraid to stand up for their rights so the dirt cheap labor pool doesn't dry up.
Dems just want as many as possible to become legal so they can vote for them.
2
Get on with it Mr. Trump..illegal is illegal.
5
Ummm, they are in the country ILLEGALLY!!! That means every single one of them is a criminal!!!
5
To all the breast-beating liberals, including those on the NYT, who say we need to understand and sympathize with the plight of the Trump voters whom we have so cruelly misunderstood because of being in our bubble: Half of your fellow Americans voted for this man and his policies. They support this. They support dismantling environmental regulations for their own benefit. They expect expansion of punitive and selective law enforcement. Trump's choices for attorney general and CIA chief bear this out. Just wait for the Homeland Security Chief. I bet it will be a doozy.
2
What if there are no mass roundups and no "purges" under a Trump administration? What if he turns out to be an embarrassingly crass but otherwise garden-variety, big-spending, Republican and the Democrats take back a bunch of senate and house seats in the midterms? What will we say then?
1
If Trump carries out his plan, that will be the start of major global problems for his administration. For example, European countries understand that immigration is a problem but forcibly throwing out 2-3 million people without much regard for due process would put them in a very uncomfortable position about dealing with Trump.
The countries where these immigrants would be sent to may not be as willing to cooperate with Trump on intelligence gathering (no matter how much Americans believe that the CIA knows everything, the truth is that they rely very heavily on information from other governments), joint initiatives, port calls by the US military, etc. Diplomatically, contact may only be on a need-to basis.
In other words, Trump would be nowhere close to making America great. Forget about again.
The countries where these immigrants would be sent to may not be as willing to cooperate with Trump on intelligence gathering (no matter how much Americans believe that the CIA knows everything, the truth is that they rely very heavily on information from other governments), joint initiatives, port calls by the US military, etc. Diplomatically, contact may only be on a need-to basis.
In other words, Trump would be nowhere close to making America great. Forget about again.
1
It's time for President Obama to step up before he steps out and stop deporting immigrants, and instead pardon all those in his executive action programs like DACA, and all others who have been here for 5 years with no criminal record who have been working and paying taxes. He has the power to end the fear rampant in Hispanic communities across the nation and he should finally put it to good use.
1
Is there any mechanism in place to insure that Trump does indeed follow due process regarding deportations and other matters, in the event that he choses to by-pass it? He seems to be able to get away with whatever he wants. Some reporting on this issue would be appreciated!
Sadly, I believe we now have our own Rodigo Duterte!
1
Trump would have many of us believe that Obama has been soft on illegal immigration, but that simply isn't the case. Between 2009 and 2014, Obama deported 2.4 million people from the U.S. according to Pew Research. That equates to 3.2 million vs. 2M under Bush over eight years.
By definition, if people are here illegally, they are breaking the law. But do we really want to expend the vast Federal resources necessary to fully address this issue? And is it worth terrorizing communities and families? Is that really the priority of our nation?
Smoking pot is illegal. Underage drinking is illegal too. And there is evidence to suggest that the long-term negative effects of both are much more damaging to our country than the presence of 800K illegal immigrants.
Seems to me we first need to determine which crimes pose the greatest threats and prioritize based on a cost-benefit approach. A lot is already being done to deal with illegal immigration, and most of the jobs performed by illegal workers do not attract U.S. citizens anyway.
By definition, if people are here illegally, they are breaking the law. But do we really want to expend the vast Federal resources necessary to fully address this issue? And is it worth terrorizing communities and families? Is that really the priority of our nation?
Smoking pot is illegal. Underage drinking is illegal too. And there is evidence to suggest that the long-term negative effects of both are much more damaging to our country than the presence of 800K illegal immigrants.
Seems to me we first need to determine which crimes pose the greatest threats and prioritize based on a cost-benefit approach. A lot is already being done to deal with illegal immigration, and most of the jobs performed by illegal workers do not attract U.S. citizens anyway.
1
I'm with President Obama--give the man a chance.
1
California cannot function without illegals, but it functions badly with them. Our greedy politicians and businesses have created an impossible situation.
2
Citizens of sanctuary cities should put their federal taxes in escrow if this policy goes into effect.
The Federal government needs the money that comes in from sanctuary cities in order to block grant it to red states.
Taxation without representation. It's time that Democrats dust off an old battle cry.
The Federal government needs the money that comes in from sanctuary cities in order to block grant it to red states.
Taxation without representation. It's time that Democrats dust off an old battle cry.
1
I fail to see how it is a cherished American ideal to keep illegal immigrants from facing the law. They are illegal. Put that word in bold print ILLEGAL. That means they have no right to be in this country.
We are a nation of laws and enforcing immigration is one of those laws.- Enforcing it should not upset the NYT so much. Do they believe lawbreakers should go free?
I am glad that Trump plans to deport those here illegally. We should have been doing that decades ago!!
We are a nation of laws and enforcing immigration is one of those laws.- Enforcing it should not upset the NYT so much. Do they believe lawbreakers should go free?
I am glad that Trump plans to deport those here illegally. We should have been doing that decades ago!!
7
We can't give "sanctuary" to criminals. What's the fuss here? I'm more concerned about the welfare of hard-working, tax paying citizens than the rights of people here illegally who have no rights.
And while we're at it, let's stop the practice of giving illegal aliens drivers' licenses. That is outrageous.
And while we're at it, let's stop the practice of giving illegal aliens drivers' licenses. That is outrageous.
5
To all the lazy Trump supporters complaining about immigrants - legal or illegal.
Go get a job.
You won't do the jobs that low wage Mexicans or other lower educated (like you) immigrants do. So we can deport them and it won't help you.
And you can't do the job of the highly educated immigrants who work in tech or skilled engineering positions.
Why? Because either you showed no personal initiative in your life or because Republican lawmakers have systematically ripped off your community, your schools and kids by favoring the rich for decades and blocking Democrats who typically try to invest in all Americans. Not just the rich.
You vote for conservatives, now drown in it.
Or do what your grandparents did.
Start workers movements that help you get yours.
Instead you support anti-worker Republicans and do heroin to forget your dumb choices.
Like not taking school seriously.
There are plenty of jobs.
And there will "sooo many!" with your President.
Get in his hotels and work.
Plenty of work when the immigrants go.
No union to protect you cause he don't like that…or you.
Get a job.
Go get a job.
You won't do the jobs that low wage Mexicans or other lower educated (like you) immigrants do. So we can deport them and it won't help you.
And you can't do the job of the highly educated immigrants who work in tech or skilled engineering positions.
Why? Because either you showed no personal initiative in your life or because Republican lawmakers have systematically ripped off your community, your schools and kids by favoring the rich for decades and blocking Democrats who typically try to invest in all Americans. Not just the rich.
You vote for conservatives, now drown in it.
Or do what your grandparents did.
Start workers movements that help you get yours.
Instead you support anti-worker Republicans and do heroin to forget your dumb choices.
Like not taking school seriously.
There are plenty of jobs.
And there will "sooo many!" with your President.
Get in his hotels and work.
Plenty of work when the immigrants go.
No union to protect you cause he don't like that…or you.
Get a job.
5
After reading the editorial, it is unclear what the editorial board's position is vis-a-vis the 800,000 undocumented convicted criminals. If you hesitate to deport those individuals, we may as well open the border and do away with the visa system. Instead of always attacking Trump, the editorial board should tell us what they would do if the people elected them president.
18
My last two comments on Trump were not published. Evidently, the Times wants to put a positive, or should I say, not too negative, spin on our new president-elect. I guess I will never get that coveted green check mark. Well, here I go again. Donald Trump is a narcissistic, psychopathic egomaniac who would climb over your body to get into his helicopter after his immigrant police shot you dead after a traffic stop. He has no business as president of our country. He is a thief, a fraud, a confidence man. Any and all attempts to normalize him will end up only enabling him. I say, give the republicans a taste of their own medicine. Oppose him on everything, put sand in the gears of government. Maybe we will get lucky and McConnell will go crazy and be institutionalized.
4
President-elect Trump can say whatever he likes, the facts on the ground will speak for themselves.
The deportation of ALL illegal residents in the US is something I would agree with him but when he qualifies that deportation for only those who are criminal it stops making sense to me. A person staying in the US without proper authorization to do so must be deported to their home country regardless of criminal record or not. They simply do not belong.
Such a policy, of only deporting the ones with criminal records, is an insult to those who who have spent thousands upon thousands of dollars and hours to gain entry "legally" into the US. I was one of those who had gone thru the process and was a "legal permanent resident" of the US until my "green card" was revoked for staying out of the US for more than an year. I haven't visited the US since September 1999 and I have NO intentions of ever visiting the US. I consider the revocation of my green card to be a huge blessing that I have had the opportunity to see and experience the rest of the world like I never did during my 20 years in the US. Today, I recommend all people against spending their time and money in the US and say that if they have seen one city in the US, they have seen almost all of them as they are VERY similar with minor differences: visit one and see the rest on google earth!
The illegals should pack their bags and leave the US themselves, I would NEVER stay one picosecond somewhere I wasn't welcome.
The deportation of ALL illegal residents in the US is something I would agree with him but when he qualifies that deportation for only those who are criminal it stops making sense to me. A person staying in the US without proper authorization to do so must be deported to their home country regardless of criminal record or not. They simply do not belong.
Such a policy, of only deporting the ones with criminal records, is an insult to those who who have spent thousands upon thousands of dollars and hours to gain entry "legally" into the US. I was one of those who had gone thru the process and was a "legal permanent resident" of the US until my "green card" was revoked for staying out of the US for more than an year. I haven't visited the US since September 1999 and I have NO intentions of ever visiting the US. I consider the revocation of my green card to be a huge blessing that I have had the opportunity to see and experience the rest of the world like I never did during my 20 years in the US. Today, I recommend all people against spending their time and money in the US and say that if they have seen one city in the US, they have seen almost all of them as they are VERY similar with minor differences: visit one and see the rest on google earth!
The illegals should pack their bags and leave the US themselves, I would NEVER stay one picosecond somewhere I wasn't welcome.
2
I wonder how the NYT. and DJT for that matter, came up with the number of covert-resident criminals at 3 million. Who did the count, and how did they do it?
Trump's gift, if you can call it that, is all show and no go. With all the problems we confront from a Republican congress that did nothing for eight years, and he picks out a non-problem to start ---meanwhile back in the real world of income inequality, climate change (Chicago was 70 degrees today), stagnate salaries, I could go on, but, no, we will spend the first 100 days, playing immigration dragnet.
1
The NYT is 'outraged' that the number of illegal alien criminals is "only" 800,000 and not 2 million as Trump is claiming. Yikes! They disagree about the numbers! Run for the hills!!!
Seriously, you're going to quibble over the number? Why not simply agree that whatever the number (and 800,000 does seem pretty high), illegal alien criminals should probably be deported, right?
If the NYT is going to strive to be "outraged" over phony made up "controversies" for the next 4 or 8 years they will have proved that 2016 taught them nothing.
Seriously, you're going to quibble over the number? Why not simply agree that whatever the number (and 800,000 does seem pretty high), illegal alien criminals should probably be deported, right?
If the NYT is going to strive to be "outraged" over phony made up "controversies" for the next 4 or 8 years they will have proved that 2016 taught them nothing.
3
The fact is, Trump doesn't want to deport them, at least not right away. They are his ticket to re-election, they and those nasty judges, lawyers and law enforcement officials who seek to defend due process. People need to recognize that Trump will run his administration much as he ran his campaign. Bluff, bluster, and scapegoating. Why would he do differently, as it got him elected?
2
So you are saying that we should protect the aliens who have come illegally into our country to protect our cherished American ideals? One of the few things Obama got right was to begin to deport illegal persons.
4
Hasn't the Times Board learned, take Trump seriously, not literally. Whether the figure is 820,000 or 2 million, criminals should be deported and have no place in our society.
Only the NY Times would publish a ridiculous argument to the effect it is bad to deport criminal undesirables. By definition, criminals are undesirables, and based on rates of recidivism, pose an ongoing threat to the population and a burden on society. In fact, as a general matter, the entire point of immigration policy (for any country) is to, in an orderly way, screen and introduce persons who enhance society and its aims while excluding defectives, e.g., criminals, subversives and those who would be a burden.
Only the NY Times would publish a ridiculous argument to the effect it is bad to deport criminal undesirables. By definition, criminals are undesirables, and based on rates of recidivism, pose an ongoing threat to the population and a burden on society. In fact, as a general matter, the entire point of immigration policy (for any country) is to, in an orderly way, screen and introduce persons who enhance society and its aims while excluding defectives, e.g., criminals, subversives and those who would be a burden.
2
"The list of cities where leaders and police officials have vowed not to participate in a Trump dragnet is long and growing." Publish the list please! Action plans helpful to strengthen opposition to Trumps dragnet1
2
This is one of those times when we must get involved. The old saying "All it takes for evil to flourish is for one person to look away" is true. If everyone registered as a Muslim for instance, his list would be meaningless.
Mr. Trump put me down on your Muslim registry, my name is Bruce Higgins and I am a Muslim.
Mr. Trump put me down on your Muslim registry, my name is Bruce Higgins and I am a Muslim.
5
Trying to use logic in service of analyzing the most illogical presidency in modern history is an exercise in futility.
1
If E-Verify is made mandatory, illegal aliens in the U.S. will not be able to get legitimate jobs. Only off-the-book cash only jobs will be available, so many millions will leave the country voluntarily. This will bring many citizens that do not have jobs, but are not counted as unemployed (U6), back into the workforce because wages and working conditions will increase.
4
Donald Trump's claim of 3 million criminal immigrants in America is as credible of the alleged number of communists in the federal government as claimed by Joe McCarthy.
Where is our Ed Murrow?
Where is our Ed Murrow?
4
Correct. All illegal aliens are by definition criminals, so there are 11 million of them.
3
You mean communists like Sanders? So McCarthy was right!
2
I wonder how I can register as a Muslim, being closet to that than the latest flavor of christianity which happens to be in vogue.
1
A trump promise is hateful, dishonest, bigoted, irrational, baseless, and would create more problems than it purports to solve.
No surprise.
No surprise.
1
The NYT is apparently aghast that a President would have the nerve to simply enforce the laws that are currently on the books.
This is ridiculous. These people broke the law by coming here, they break the law by stealing Social Security numbers to work.
Funny how the law doesn't matter to Liberals.
This is ridiculous. These people broke the law by coming here, they break the law by stealing Social Security numbers to work.
Funny how the law doesn't matter to Liberals.
5
With the election now long over the NYT front page has gone from criticizing everything Trump does as a candidate to now everything Trump's planning as president elect.
After the election the NYT had the credibility of a comic book. Now the same with criticizing Trump's policy on illegal aliens.
With an ever increasing technological US there are going to be fewer and fewer unskilled and blue collar jobs for the illegals here and planning to come here. Meanwhile nothing stops them from having kids.
They all can't go on welfare or go back home.
Illegal immigration is a time bomb waiting to explode.
After the election the NYT had the credibility of a comic book. Now the same with criticizing Trump's policy on illegal aliens.
With an ever increasing technological US there are going to be fewer and fewer unskilled and blue collar jobs for the illegals here and planning to come here. Meanwhile nothing stops them from having kids.
They all can't go on welfare or go back home.
Illegal immigration is a time bomb waiting to explode.
5
First, notoriously any relationship between almost anything that comes out of trump's mouth and reality is largely coincidental.
Second, what makes the piece of trump think that other countries would be willing to take deportees back? I suspect that in many cases even a potential threat of curbs to foreign assistance wouldn't work.
Second, what makes the piece of trump think that other countries would be willing to take deportees back? I suspect that in many cases even a potential threat of curbs to foreign assistance wouldn't work.
I'm getting really tired and frankly annoyed at the Times sob stories about people who are here illegally. Trump isn't targeting immigrants, he's targeting just illegal immigrants. These people broke the law and as a result all must be deported back to their homelands. They are an insult to the millions who followed the rules coming here. If we need the labor, a carefully crafted guest worker program would work.
24
I wonder when Trump is going to stop telling lies. Yes, lies. Throughout his campaign he told lies, about 70% according to the fact checkers. Even during the debates when he knew that he was under scrutiny he lied. All politicians tell "stretchers" and even some "pants on fire" comments come forth, but Trump is the King of all politicians when it comes to distorting or just downright not telling the truth. His supporters don't seem to care and the media, for the most part, has taken a similar attitude. Will his Presidency change this habit?
2
With all of the misinformation and dumbed down rhetoric about illegal immigration, it would be refreshing if journalists like the Editorial Board of NYTimes would make an effort to stop mixing the use of the terms "unauthorized Immigrants" or "undocumented immigrants" or "illegal immigrants" with just the term "immigrant"!
It only increases and exacerbates fear and anxiety to imply that, somehow, the Trump Administration is going to come after resident aliens and citizens who immigrated here.
It only increases and exacerbates fear and anxiety to imply that, somehow, the Trump Administration is going to come after resident aliens and citizens who immigrated here.
2
So the solution to this problem is to remove all the "unauthorized-immigrants" but ignore the business owners who hired them in the first place, without which those people could not have succeeded in the first place?
83
Flake loves the Turkish president who has undertaken a massive "purge" and killed and imprisoned 100,000 professionals on suspicion of being supporters of his adversary.
Turkey style purge is coming to USA.
Turkey style purge is coming to USA.
2
First, it begins with immigrants lacking documentation. The code words for only certain ethnicities, right, since presumably white individuals here illegally from, e.g., eastern Europe wouldn't be targeted.
Next, any individual with a Hispanic surname would be subject to suspicion. Never mind that many are second and third generation American citizens. Then they'll move on to targeting any group that falls outside what the Trumpites consider to be 'good Americans'.
2017 United States of America vs. 1930s Germany? Internment camps? As for appeasement by the Democrats, they need to take another page from history. Neville Chamberlain tried it, and we all know how well that turned out.
I weep for my country and, yes, i'm very afraid.
Next, any individual with a Hispanic surname would be subject to suspicion. Never mind that many are second and third generation American citizens. Then they'll move on to targeting any group that falls outside what the Trumpites consider to be 'good Americans'.
2017 United States of America vs. 1930s Germany? Internment camps? As for appeasement by the Democrats, they need to take another page from history. Neville Chamberlain tried it, and we all know how well that turned out.
I weep for my country and, yes, i'm very afraid.
66
The headline is absolutely right. There are a lot more than 3 million illegals and as such deport them. Be like any normal country. The word "illegal" says it all. I guess the NYT would love to send them roses and care for them all. We voted for Trump to get rid of them. Now do it.
6
I'm thinking there are a million or so Bubbas eager to denounce their neighbors to the secret police. Has that occurred previously?
1
So the administration says there are "only" 300,000 illegal immigrants who have been convicted of felonies in the country.
Why are they still here? What kind of leader allows 300,000 people, who are in our country illegally to begin with, to remain in our country after committing and being convicted of major crimes?
Because it's too hard to throw them out? Other presidents had no such trouble. Harding threw out Charles Ponzi. Roosevelt threw out Lucky Luciano. Why couldn't this president get rid of these vicious parasites?
Or is it that he just didn't want to?
Why are they still here? What kind of leader allows 300,000 people, who are in our country illegally to begin with, to remain in our country after committing and being convicted of major crimes?
Because it's too hard to throw them out? Other presidents had no such trouble. Harding threw out Charles Ponzi. Roosevelt threw out Lucky Luciano. Why couldn't this president get rid of these vicious parasites?
Or is it that he just didn't want to?
3
A cherished American ideal is respect for the law. Illegal immigrants have demonstrated that this is not an ideal that they share with the rest of us.
And, yes, sanctions should be put in place against so called "sanctuary cities". Does the Times really think that municipalities (and individuals) can pick and choose which laws they care to observe? Can Texas decide that it's citizens can ignore federal gun control laws?
And, yes, sanctions should be put in place against so called "sanctuary cities". Does the Times really think that municipalities (and individuals) can pick and choose which laws they care to observe? Can Texas decide that it's citizens can ignore federal gun control laws?
7
The voters who elected Trump have zero connection to reality, it's that simple. They will be the first victims here, so get ready for a return to the 1930's Italy, and we all know haw that turned out
Thank you uninformed voters.....
Thank you uninformed voters.....
Donald needs to rethink his hostility to NAFTA and free trade in general. If you want to stop the flood of migrants, give them a reason to stay where they are. The economic success of our southern neighbor is a great way to ensure millions don't come to America in search of work.
2
I am not convinced that he himself or any member of his family has a racist, xenophobic and antisemitic heart but he certainly surrounded by people who have nothing but overt hatred for many (Muslims, Hispanics, other foreigner etc.) and not so overt or expressed hatred for some (Jews / Blacks). His victory is the victory for a cruel nativism and cold and heartless social Darwinism, indeed a disaster and destruction in making for thousands of hard working families. Too bad, America could not produce 10 righteous people to avert this path to destruction and disaster………….
Is there something wrong with deporting criminals who are illegally in our country? I don't get why anyone would be against this. As if we don't have enough home grown criminals, let's bring more! Should we let a million or so more come and then allow them to stay? Ridiculous.
All illegal aliens are technically criminals.
Americans have immigration indigestion. Hence Trump. I knew he'd move forward and win on his anti illegal immigration stance alone. No, I did not vote for him but a lot of Democrats and Independents did because of this issue.
Honestly there should be an immigration moratorium until the gov't can sort out the backlog and eliminate those who are here illegally. I like Australia's current method of NEVER allowing anyone who tries to come illegally ever back into the country and they can't ever apply for citizenship ever. Now there's a deterrent.
All illegal aliens are technically criminals.
Americans have immigration indigestion. Hence Trump. I knew he'd move forward and win on his anti illegal immigration stance alone. No, I did not vote for him but a lot of Democrats and Independents did because of this issue.
Honestly there should be an immigration moratorium until the gov't can sort out the backlog and eliminate those who are here illegally. I like Australia's current method of NEVER allowing anyone who tries to come illegally ever back into the country and they can't ever apply for citizenship ever. Now there's a deterrent.
7
For any other crack-pot country on the planet, this "purge" would be called out for what it is---ethnic cleansing.
In Trump World, no one will be safe--citizen and non-citizen alike.
In Trump World, no one will be safe--citizen and non-citizen alike.
1
Donald: This is not a Miss America contest, you fool.
Has anyone noticed post-election photos of Trump? There is no winner's smile or gloating; he looks troubled and unhappy. The spoiled brat is staring reality in the face and I don't think he's happy, no pretty girls in bathing suits. Shocked may be more like it. Our country will be run by his close family, and a rogue Republican Party running amok, while he basically hides in his aerie.
You mention "due process." Fugetaboutit! Republicans hate it, besides, they have Fox News and talk host vipers to practice their brand of due process: accusers, judges and executioners all rolled into one.
The Republicans, via Trump, are leaving a trail of evil. You stepped in elephant dung America.
Has anyone noticed post-election photos of Trump? There is no winner's smile or gloating; he looks troubled and unhappy. The spoiled brat is staring reality in the face and I don't think he's happy, no pretty girls in bathing suits. Shocked may be more like it. Our country will be run by his close family, and a rogue Republican Party running amok, while he basically hides in his aerie.
You mention "due process." Fugetaboutit! Republicans hate it, besides, they have Fox News and talk host vipers to practice their brand of due process: accusers, judges and executioners all rolled into one.
The Republicans, via Trump, are leaving a trail of evil. You stepped in elephant dung America.
This is Trump trying to sneak another one by the American electorate - we all know that he never campaigned on deporting large number of illegal immigrants because that is not what the average American wants.
Wait - he did campaign on this and the average American does want this?
That must mean the Grey Lady's Editorial Board is out of touch with the homeland - how can that be possible?
Wait - he did campaign on this and the average American does want this?
That must mean the Grey Lady's Editorial Board is out of touch with the homeland - how can that be possible?
3
There seems to be a mistaken assumption that if the American people "want" something (how one determines a specific desire by all Americans is beyond me, but I'll take it as a given for the purpose of my comment) then they should or must have it.
Nothing could be further from the truth. the American people may want to return to segregation, or to prohibit Muslims from voting, or discriminate against gays, or imprison Hillary Clinton, or go to war with Russia. Does that mean they must necessarily have any of those things?
Of course not. Laws, ethics, common sense, practical considerations, security, etc., may all prevent them from getting what they want.
Many of our elected representatives make a huge deal out of doing "the will of the people," but they don't mention that in a republic they are not strictly beholden to the will of the masses or the majority.
For various reasons it may be that our government will not deport millions of illegal immigrants. The NYT and many cities' mayors aren't out of touch at all in recognizing that.
Nothing could be further from the truth. the American people may want to return to segregation, or to prohibit Muslims from voting, or discriminate against gays, or imprison Hillary Clinton, or go to war with Russia. Does that mean they must necessarily have any of those things?
Of course not. Laws, ethics, common sense, practical considerations, security, etc., may all prevent them from getting what they want.
Many of our elected representatives make a huge deal out of doing "the will of the people," but they don't mention that in a republic they are not strictly beholden to the will of the masses or the majority.
For various reasons it may be that our government will not deport millions of illegal immigrants. The NYT and many cities' mayors aren't out of touch at all in recognizing that.
2
The New York Time asserts that illegal immigrant workers “who keep the economy humming,” but we don’t need illegal immigrant workers to fill jobs. We can import all the legal immigrant workers we want simply by raising immigration quotas. The Editorial Board asserts that “indiscriminate roundups in immigrant communities cause crime victims to fear and avoid the police, and crime to fester.” But the roundups would not be indiscriminate; they would target people who are unlawfully in the country. The roundups wouldn’t create fear in immigrant communities, just communities of illegal immigrants who have broken laws by entering the country illegally or overstaying visas. It is true that lawbreakers fear and avoid police, but we still enforce laws.
3
Dear NYT Editorial Board,
There you go again taking Donald Trump literally. Evidently you are a slow learner. Remember his supporters do not take him literally, and perhaps even worse, they don't believe anything you print. So what is the truth here, what facts are we to believe?
The rest of us remain shocked at the prospects of Trump actually delivering on his hate filled braggadocio. And perhaps even more troubling is the prospect that we cannot have any more of an effective discussion about his actual actions than was possible during the election without a common set of information and facts.
Fearing Orwell's view of the world may become reality, I call upon you and others in the media yes, even Fox news and other right wing outlets, to band together for the good of the nation and devise a way to identify a common set of facts and information for the American public.
There you go again taking Donald Trump literally. Evidently you are a slow learner. Remember his supporters do not take him literally, and perhaps even worse, they don't believe anything you print. So what is the truth here, what facts are we to believe?
The rest of us remain shocked at the prospects of Trump actually delivering on his hate filled braggadocio. And perhaps even more troubling is the prospect that we cannot have any more of an effective discussion about his actual actions than was possible during the election without a common set of information and facts.
Fearing Orwell's view of the world may become reality, I call upon you and others in the media yes, even Fox news and other right wing outlets, to band together for the good of the nation and devise a way to identify a common set of facts and information for the American public.
1
Obama actually deports 2.5million people, paragon of virtue. Trumps talks about deporting 2.5Million he is a Nazi.
5
Yes, exactly. The difference is in the details and the approach.
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-immigration-criminals-20...
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-immigration-criminals-20...
The New York Times failed us as a nation. You failed as serious journalists. It's too late now. These are the stories you should have been covering for 18 months as well as before he won the primaries. You should have also covered in depth stories about who he surrounded himself with and what nasty people they are. Instead you just let the Trump campaign dictate the narrative and tagged along in your relentless critic of Hillary Clinton all under the guise of fair impartial reporting. My cynicism believes that your owners and editors, secretly supported Trump or minimally made a conscious decision not to really expose his campaign. After all you are all part of the same NYC elite and move in the same circles. Ironic how the east coast elites now run the country and as it turns out east coast elites are just as racist, misogynistic, xenophobic and fascistic as the rest of the working class. The Washington Post did a much better job of its reporting on the truth about Trump and his campaign. I cancelled my subscription to your paper and as soon as it ends you will never get my money again. Welcome to fascist America brought to you by the NYTimes.
4
What does Trump plan to do with the dangerous felons whose home countries refuse to take them back? For example, Jean Jacques, the murderer from Haiti with no identification papers?
It will be easier for Trump to uproot a bunch of brown families and get the numbers up. So that is what he will do.
It will be easier for Trump to uproot a bunch of brown families and get the numbers up. So that is what he will do.
2
So, how exactly will the "smaller government" his followers and, more dangerously, the Republican leadership cry for be able to manage the up-coming surge in deportations he has promised?
1
In the beginning aka 13,000 years ago the first brown humans arrived in the Americas by land and sea from Asia. About 500 years ago the second white human Europeans arrived in the Americas uninvited and unannounced. The Europeans brought their black African enslaved human property with them.
The first nations lived in a dynamic state of conflict and cooperation. And the Europeans were in conflict with each other before beginning their conquest and colonization of the first nations. The Native American and American wars were a bloody deadly affair that led to Natives to reservations.
Abraham Lincoln and Jefferson Davis managed to kill 750,000 of their fellow Americans in a nation of 30 million including 4 million slaves whose freedom was purchased by "purging the land with blood". The freed slaves left their plantations then ended up in ghettoes then prisons.
After the Civil War European Catholics Jews from Eastern and Southern Europe came to America and ended up in ethnic sectarian ghettoes. While German Americans never ended up in internment camps after two German enemy led world wars Japanese Americans suffered that fate after Japan began one world war. A fate that Italian Americans escaped.
Too many good Native Americans still live on 3rd world reservations. Too many good African Americans still live in ghettoes and prisons. Most Latino/Hispanic immigrants are innocent honest good hard working human beings seeking the American dream. We are all immigrants
The first nations lived in a dynamic state of conflict and cooperation. And the Europeans were in conflict with each other before beginning their conquest and colonization of the first nations. The Native American and American wars were a bloody deadly affair that led to Natives to reservations.
Abraham Lincoln and Jefferson Davis managed to kill 750,000 of their fellow Americans in a nation of 30 million including 4 million slaves whose freedom was purchased by "purging the land with blood". The freed slaves left their plantations then ended up in ghettoes then prisons.
After the Civil War European Catholics Jews from Eastern and Southern Europe came to America and ended up in ethnic sectarian ghettoes. While German Americans never ended up in internment camps after two German enemy led world wars Japanese Americans suffered that fate after Japan began one world war. A fate that Italian Americans escaped.
Too many good Native Americans still live on 3rd world reservations. Too many good African Americans still live in ghettoes and prisons. Most Latino/Hispanic immigrants are innocent honest good hard working human beings seeking the American dream. We are all immigrants
2
The NY Times first states the real number meeting Trumps criteria is about 800,000 and then huffs and puffs that he can't easily deport 3 million.
But the editors let slip an interesting statistic - Obama has deported 2.5 Million using the same criteria as Trump, but over 8 years. That comes to 300 to 400 thousand serious criminals being deported per year.
Did the Times inadvertently let slip the truth about some immigrants? Thats a seriously large proportion of the incoming illegal immigrant population per year.
But the editors let slip an interesting statistic - Obama has deported 2.5 Million using the same criteria as Trump, but over 8 years. That comes to 300 to 400 thousand serious criminals being deported per year.
Did the Times inadvertently let slip the truth about some immigrants? Thats a seriously large proportion of the incoming illegal immigrant population per year.
6
Would countries accept the return of illegals? Ships could sit at port and planes on the tarmac. America's new export " product" would be people.
We're making progress,the NYT is actually acknowledging that there are criminal illegal immigrants,no mention of the billions spent on housing and feeding those in prison or the havoc they wreak in the immigrant community,but progress none the less.The NYT and the elites are shocked that the barbarians won the election, but they're still more interested in the well being of criminals than the will of the people.
Which illegal immigrants are keeping the economy humming? Those who work off the books and pay no taxes? Those who work with false or stolen documents? (a crime the last time I checked) Or those who receive all the tax payer funded benefits our misguided government provides? Keep moving left as far as possible Dem elites,eventually you'll land deep in the ocean.
Which illegal immigrants are keeping the economy humming? Those who work off the books and pay no taxes? Those who work with false or stolen documents? (a crime the last time I checked) Or those who receive all the tax payer funded benefits our misguided government provides? Keep moving left as far as possible Dem elites,eventually you'll land deep in the ocean.
7
The important message is missing here. How does trump apply red, white and blue to the swastika? I'm sure he will find someone among his list of sycophants to find a solution to this vexing problem. Hail trump!
These America First chest beaters are nothing more than closet National Socialists. The Germans of the 30's started with hate speech and singling out 'others', went on to registries of Jews and Gypsy's, experimented with euthanasia of the disabled and impure before embarking on their final solution. The GOP has singled out 'others', is starting a registry of Muslims, and well on their way more tragic policies.
Don't forget that there were many supporters of the German way in the 30's and their grandchildren are the present GOP.
Don't forget that there were many supporters of the German way in the 30's and their grandchildren are the present GOP.
2
With this rhetoric, the incoming administration is taking the heat off Congress to enact a reasonable and comprehensive immigration policy. But the rhetoric is not the problem. The problem is the pattern of racism, white nationalism and unconstitutional actions which will go unchallenged by the incoming attorney general if Sessions is confirmed.
“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.”
Emma Lazarus had no idea that she would be describing the plight of 21st century Americans.
“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.”
Emma Lazarus had no idea that she would be describing the plight of 21st century Americans.
2
This is how a dictatorship starts. If we are not able to remove Trump, the US is going to join Turkey at trying very hard to becoming a newly established dictatorship. I predicted years ago that the US will not fall due to terrorists or outside wars. The fall will be from the inside, and unlike Germany before the war, there will be no help from other countries to save the nation. Elections have consequences, and all I could see during this election was the voters wanting more problems in the name of creating jobs, that will never be created anyway. The biggest problem in the US is wealth distribution, not lack of wealth.
3
It might be helpful to put in caps, or red or underline the sentence that states the Obama administration deported 2.5 million immigrants, I trust illegal.
4
Or link to this article. http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-immigration-criminals-20...
What elected Donald Trump? In a word, hate. From the almost infinite poisons spread by Trump, his supporters had to chose but one to be satiated. And they did. Hatred towards immigrants was certainly one of them.
So it is hate that now defines America's political destiny- and it is not hard to see where this leads.
While I understand the counter force of Love- My disgust and revulsion continues. It is not as if I had great trust and love for my fellow citizens before this. Living in a society you feel deeply separated from is "no piece of cake." You rationalize, forget and hope for the best- but the soul is never nourished as it should.
Yet, I can't forget the victims of hate- and much will fall upon our immigrants. And your editorial a reminder of the good that remains.
So it is hate that now defines America's political destiny- and it is not hard to see where this leads.
While I understand the counter force of Love- My disgust and revulsion continues. It is not as if I had great trust and love for my fellow citizens before this. Living in a society you feel deeply separated from is "no piece of cake." You rationalize, forget and hope for the best- but the soul is never nourished as it should.
Yet, I can't forget the victims of hate- and much will fall upon our immigrants. And your editorial a reminder of the good that remains.
3
The hyperbole by these editors is just too much. Just stop it. You and your moral vanity are a primary reason for Trump.
3
A foreigner becomes a neighbor by following the rules of the neighborhood.
5
When the State of Alabama said they would not comply with Federal law, the Times was up in arms over the idea that a state could attempt to nulify a Federal decree. When New York does the same thing, they have "struck the right note".
It all depends of whose ox is being gored, does it not?
It all depends of whose ox is being gored, does it not?
4
Since when did Trump ever use facts? It's clear by now that everything he says is made up.
12
Whether the numbers are made up, inflated, or impossible to really establish is beside the point. The presumed nominee for attorney general, Jeff Sessions, championed one of the harshest anti-immigrant laws in the country that was implement in Alabama. Even legal workers left the state, hurting agriculture and construction industries. And, just the other day, one of Trump's surrogates spoke fondly of the internment of Japanese citizens during World War II.
Explicitly stated or not, people know when they are not wanted.
This is not my America.
Explicitly stated or not, people know when they are not wanted.
This is not my America.
10
Unlike the World War II interment of Japanese Americans, the deportation of unauthorized immigrants doesn't involve U.S. citizens. It involves only foreign nationals who have unlawfully entered the country or who have overstayed their visas. There is no parallel to the Japanese American internment.
1
Require e-Verify for all employers
Stop Federal payments to sanctuary cities that defy the law like pre-Civil War southern states.
Let the Border Patrol actually do the job we are already paying them for.
Deport as many criminal illegal aliens as possible.
Cancel all Obama amnesty executive orders.
All done with a phone and a pen. Actually, a physical wall would only slow down the flood headed back south of the border after doing the above.
Go President Trump!
Stop Federal payments to sanctuary cities that defy the law like pre-Civil War southern states.
Let the Border Patrol actually do the job we are already paying them for.
Deport as many criminal illegal aliens as possible.
Cancel all Obama amnesty executive orders.
All done with a phone and a pen. Actually, a physical wall would only slow down the flood headed back south of the border after doing the above.
Go President Trump!
31
The threat of illegally withholding federal dollars to so-called Sanctuary Cities is best addressed by those cities' citizens ceasing payment of federal taxes. The cheeto can show up to try to collect. We'll declare Portland a trump-Free Zone.
The Republican pogrom against what is primarily the Hispanic community will be no less a humanitarian crime than was Hitler's and his Nazis' attempts to exterminate the Jew from the face of the earth. That indiscriminate, arbitrary executions in the street is not a written part of the plan does not make this proposal any less repugnant.
I had to have $50,000 worth of foundation repair and retaining wall construction to stop my home from tearing itself apart. The crew that built the retaining was, with the exception of the contractor himself, entirely Hispanic. Only one of them was fluent in English. Every one of them worked hard every hour and every day of the two weeks they were here. Every one of them was unfailingly polite. The quality of their work was and remains top-notch.
I did not ask if these men had green cards. I did ask where they were from and learned that of the five men, they hailed from three different Central American nations. That the ancestors of these men walked the soil of this continent thousands of years before the first real "illegal" immigrants arrived is, to me, relevant to this issue. The white man practiced genocide against the nations of peoples they found here for the better part of three centuries and persists to this day in aiding and abetting a form of genocide against true native North Americans.
I had to have $50,000 worth of foundation repair and retaining wall construction to stop my home from tearing itself apart. The crew that built the retaining was, with the exception of the contractor himself, entirely Hispanic. Only one of them was fluent in English. Every one of them worked hard every hour and every day of the two weeks they were here. Every one of them was unfailingly polite. The quality of their work was and remains top-notch.
I did not ask if these men had green cards. I did ask where they were from and learned that of the five men, they hailed from three different Central American nations. That the ancestors of these men walked the soil of this continent thousands of years before the first real "illegal" immigrants arrived is, to me, relevant to this issue. The white man practiced genocide against the nations of peoples they found here for the better part of three centuries and persists to this day in aiding and abetting a form of genocide against true native North Americans.
8
And if they are illegals, with no valid permit to work here, have you ever considered what their pay rate is? Do they get benefits? I'm not saying Hispanics are not hard workers, far from that. I am saying that we have laws and they should respect those laws. Legal immigration; fine. Illegal; no way.
3
A company that bid against your contractor, who paid workmans comp., verified their immigration status to see if they were working legally, paid ability insurance, social security and heath insurance premiums had a serious disadvantage in bidding against your contractor.
Do you consider yourself as part of a genocide against workers here legally and citizens?
Do you consider yourself as part of a genocide against workers here legally and citizens?
1
I'm revolted by the election results, but not puzzled. The Republican leadership after 2012 took note of a changing electorate which indicated a future where a coalition of minorities would dominate. It seemed important to have a stronger appeal to Hispanics. Other parts of the minority (Obama) coalition would be very difficult to peel away from the Democrats, particularly since the Republican base didn't want them. This Republican analysis was widely known. However Trump openly antagonized Hispanics, and won with almost exclusively white support. Why? Many whites saw that this minority coalition forecast was accurate. Just look around. But why was this happening? Who were these minorities? Not blacks, who seem to be a steady 12-20% of the population. Hispanics were the group who were explosively expanding and making the minority coalition dominance probable. And (unlike blacks) so many were here illegally! Their children born here could vote. As many as possible became citizens and then could vote. And hundreds of thousands, millions more poured in every year and this would never stop. Do you see what's happening in Europe with weak borders? Trump loudly proclaims this has to stop. Build a Wall. Just to stabilize things. That will drastically slow the minority coalition. Then 11 million will be deported. Instead of expanding, the coalition of minorities will shrink. Here's your last chance. And it's not unfair and not anti-black: they're here illegally!
5
In a country dedicated to the rule of law and due process, illegal immigrants who are criminals or commit crimes here should be deported and if convicted of a crime and sentenced to prison, should serve their time and then be deported. This is how Obama deported 2.5 million in 8 years.
In theory only criminals have to worry. But what is going to happen soon is there will be a dragnet and the more the better. The rule of law and due process will go buy the way; after all if you want to make an omelet you have to break a few eggs.
Yet it is clear that this country by majority vote of actual voters did not vote for a police state, mass arrests, privatized concentration camps, and a dragnet which will imprison and deport an undocumented criminal but his wife and children who committed no crimes. So Trump will deport whole families or break up families, including deporting those brought here as infants and know no other country.
The alt right is in the saddle now and Steve Bannon will play the dual role of Trump’s Himmler and Goebbels. The questions that must soon be asked are who acts like a neo-nazi? Who talks like a neo-nazi? And who associates with other a neo-nazis?. When our Constitution is seen as something to be ignored at will, when all people are not equal before the law, when greed, ignorance, thuggery and government is hidden from the press, in the near future people are going to ask when can we get our country back. Can we get our country back?
In theory only criminals have to worry. But what is going to happen soon is there will be a dragnet and the more the better. The rule of law and due process will go buy the way; after all if you want to make an omelet you have to break a few eggs.
Yet it is clear that this country by majority vote of actual voters did not vote for a police state, mass arrests, privatized concentration camps, and a dragnet which will imprison and deport an undocumented criminal but his wife and children who committed no crimes. So Trump will deport whole families or break up families, including deporting those brought here as infants and know no other country.
The alt right is in the saddle now and Steve Bannon will play the dual role of Trump’s Himmler and Goebbels. The questions that must soon be asked are who acts like a neo-nazi? Who talks like a neo-nazi? And who associates with other a neo-nazis?. When our Constitution is seen as something to be ignored at will, when all people are not equal before the law, when greed, ignorance, thuggery and government is hidden from the press, in the near future people are going to ask when can we get our country back. Can we get our country back?
4
Cutting off federal funding to so-called sanctuary cities is a good first step. The fact that the NYT is fine with cities ignoring federal laws is amazing. Either we are a national of laws or not. If localities can pick and choice the laws they have to enforce pretty soon soon there will be places ignoring laws that may be more dear to the Times than the immigration ones.
14
I'm not opposed to the removal of illegals who are convicted felons. Not one bit. My objection comes with the imagery that comes from with a proposed police state, where we're all on edge, fearing that a lack of documentation could move any of us....away from jobs, home, family. Do I fear this, personally, no. But, with a mistake by any group or agency empowered to "extract" illegals, anything is possible.
Any variance to plan? Blame the Democrats.
Any variance to plan? Blame the Democrats.
4
I wonder how many illegals work for the Trump Organization and related businesses? How many of them will be deported, or are they all "terrific?"
6
I will never accept The Con Don as President while he tries to lead us into WWIII. He'll quell any national uprising because he now controls law enforcement, the national guard and military.
He is busy picking his illustrious cabinet. All hard-core southern religious fear-hate-anger-war fanatics.
Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions as his attorney general. The 69-year-old, four-term Alabama Republican is a hard-liner on free trade and immigration, arguing that prospective immigrants don’t have constitutional protections. He has opposed efforts to overhaul prison sentencing, back off the war on drugs and legalize marijuana. Before the election he promised to appoint a special prosecutor to investigate the e-mail practices of his election opponent, Hillary Clinton.
CIA head - Republican Representative Mike Pompeo, an ardent member of the so-called Benghazi committee, as director of the Central Intelligence Agency, according to a person familiar with the matter. Pompeo, who represents Kansas, was first elected to Congress in 2010 with the backing of the Tea Party movement.
National Security Adviser - retired Lieutenant General Mike Flynn, a position that does not require U.S. Senate confirmation. Fired from the Defense Intelligence Agency in 2014, a move he has attributed to his telling hard truths about the war on Islamist extremism. Other officials who worked with Flynn cited his lack of management skills and leadership style as reasons for his firing.
He is busy picking his illustrious cabinet. All hard-core southern religious fear-hate-anger-war fanatics.
Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions as his attorney general. The 69-year-old, four-term Alabama Republican is a hard-liner on free trade and immigration, arguing that prospective immigrants don’t have constitutional protections. He has opposed efforts to overhaul prison sentencing, back off the war on drugs and legalize marijuana. Before the election he promised to appoint a special prosecutor to investigate the e-mail practices of his election opponent, Hillary Clinton.
CIA head - Republican Representative Mike Pompeo, an ardent member of the so-called Benghazi committee, as director of the Central Intelligence Agency, according to a person familiar with the matter. Pompeo, who represents Kansas, was first elected to Congress in 2010 with the backing of the Tea Party movement.
National Security Adviser - retired Lieutenant General Mike Flynn, a position that does not require U.S. Senate confirmation. Fired from the Defense Intelligence Agency in 2014, a move he has attributed to his telling hard truths about the war on Islamist extremism. Other officials who worked with Flynn cited his lack of management skills and leadership style as reasons for his firing.
6
Betsy Hodges, Mayor of Minneapolis, added her voice to the opponents of federalizing police departments to enforce human rights violations against immigrants on the "Takeaway" (http://www.wnyc.org/story/minneapolis-mayor-stands-firm-sanctuary-city/ . Politicians who demonstrate integrity are rewarded. We await more women and men to stand up to tyranny in defense of our communities.
65
Here's another: Ron Wyden Democratic senator from Oregon on Trump's agenda: 'a wake-up call for potential abuse of power'
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/18/ron-wyden-senator-donald...
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/18/ron-wyden-senator-donald...
1
To the editorial board, let's try an experiment. Unlock the doors to your house and turn off your security system. I'll put the word out on the street that you have a big house with plenty of room, water, power, food, etc. ripe for the taking. Let's see how many squatters....I mean new family members you get to live with in say a month. A nation equals a house. A border equals a door lock. Citizens equal family. If you aren't willing to open the doors of your house to anyone who wants to walk in and stay, then you can't logically be in favor of ILLEGAL immigration. You'd call the police to have them come remove the person for breaking and entering and you know it. Quit conflating immigration with illegal immigration and quit conflating people who support law and order with racism and xenophobia. It's poor journalism.
22
It is amazing that the; NYTimes writes an article about illegal aliens and never once uses the term 'illegal', falling back instead on substituting 'unauthorized' for 'illegal'. This certainly has the appearance of trying to whitewash or softening the problem which is not unlike trying to sweep the phrase 'Islamic terrorists' under the rug and we know how well that worked out.
22
Mr. Donald Trump is elected by underprivileged and poor white Americans, from whom America was highjacked by, rich white financiers, bankers etc., blacks, Mexicans, Muslim, Cubans and especially Israel first Jews. Now America will be again in the rightful hands of white Americans. Time has come to make America great again, and for America for Americans. We do not want persons with dual citizenship, with doubtful loyalty, on the important and sensible post for national security in our Administration and especially not Israel first Jews. If Israel is first for them, let them Aliyah to Israel!! And naturally, we also do not want over 11 million illegal immigrants, many of them with criminal record, in our country, so they deportation or incarcerated is priority.
3
I just wouldn't want to be the agent of the state who asks me for a loyalty oath...
And still.... the NYTimes Ed. Board does not understand why Trump won.
Because they were wrong on immigration, among other things.
Go ahead.... continue being wrong... give Trump more leverage.
What could possibly get worse?
Because they were wrong on immigration, among other things.
Go ahead.... continue being wrong... give Trump more leverage.
What could possibly get worse?
14
When Hillary Clinton said she dreamed of open trade and open borders in her remarks on May 16, 2013, to the Brazilian bank Banco Itau, she lost the election.
Open trade (most often called free trade) and open borders means the USA standard of living would drop........we've already seen too much of that. Parents may be secure, but their children will not be able to have the same standard of living.
HRC said, "My dream is a hemispheric common market, with open trade and open borders, some time in the future with energy that is as green and sustainable as we can get it, powering growth and opportunity for every person in the hemisphere."
A majority of Americans are not interested in nation-building. Many Democrats are interested in nation-building - they want to save the rest of the world. The rest of the world needs to save itself: USA taxpayers can't save 2 billion people!
Open trade (most often called free trade) and open borders means the USA standard of living would drop........we've already seen too much of that. Parents may be secure, but their children will not be able to have the same standard of living.
HRC said, "My dream is a hemispheric common market, with open trade and open borders, some time in the future with energy that is as green and sustainable as we can get it, powering growth and opportunity for every person in the hemisphere."
A majority of Americans are not interested in nation-building. Many Democrats are interested in nation-building - they want to save the rest of the world. The rest of the world needs to save itself: USA taxpayers can't save 2 billion people!
3
More than half the Country doesn't understand either.
Trump got just under 25% of the actual voting population. Hardly a win!
Hillary got more.
Trump got just under 25% of the actual voting population. Hardly a win!
Hillary got more.
1
"President-elect Donald Trump says he will move immediately to deport or imprison ....unauthorized-immigrant criminals". "he would be snatching workers from their jobs, workers who keep the economy humming". "cherished American ideals are under siege". Huh? :-)
7
I'm told by Op/Ed writers and talking heads on TV that "the people who would be deported are the people who clean your house and take care of your pool and your lawn".
Hello........I clean my own house, I don't have a pool, and my sons cut my grass and trim my shrubbery. But then I'm not one of the 1% and surely not one of the .001%. My work staff comprises my sons and me......
Hello........I clean my own house, I don't have a pool, and my sons cut my grass and trim my shrubbery. But then I'm not one of the 1% and surely not one of the .001%. My work staff comprises my sons and me......
7
We should have been thinking like this editorial BEFORE we elected him, Not after.
3
I was, as were many others. History is a good go-to in times like this, it gives you some idea of how things might go. Especially as history is always on the repeat button. We do not learn it seems.
Thank you New York Times...!!!
5
It's not hard to see "Internment Camps", a solution with historic precedence in this country, as a Trump Administration tool in this crusade. This idea will probably be accepted as perfectly rational and acceptable by Republican voters, and cheered by the corporate "correction industry" but it is frighteningly reminiscent of other repressive regimes. Has anyone estimated the economic impact of ejecting so many workers and consumers from our economy? Will fruit and vegetable prices, already steep, go up when there are fewer hands to till and harvest? Domestic worker and caregiver shortage? Guess we'll need those tax cuts to help pay our nursing home bills.
58
Do you really want "domestic worker and caregivers" who are "unauthorized-immigrant criminals"?
2
I don't know what all the clamor is about. Of course Trump is going to expel all illegal aliens from our country. That is his mandate. More importantly, that is what is best for our citizens, our institutions, and our laws.
As he has also said, those expelled multitudes can apply to re-enter our country while standing in their country. That is nothing new or shocking, that is the law.
If the illegal aliens are disappointed with Trump, the American people are sick and tired of the illegal aliens.
As he has also said, those expelled multitudes can apply to re-enter our country while standing in their country. That is nothing new or shocking, that is the law.
If the illegal aliens are disappointed with Trump, the American people are sick and tired of the illegal aliens.
20
The initiative of deporting “millions of illegal aliens criminals” is the xenophobic manifestation against Latinos. But Carl Higbie idea of a Muslim registry, tells me more that. I see a modern age initiative to go to a pre-civil rights act era. Attorney General Jeff Sessions might love the idea.
It is amazing how Trump’s GOP foes became Trump groupies, mesmerized by the little crumbs of power they go to beg at the Trump Tower. The oddest example is Mitt Romney. I hope that his visit to Manhattan is to set the record straight regarding this new multiphase McCarthyism and not to get more than “a red hat”. Who said that a Mormon registry will not follow a Muslim registry? Sounds familiar?
One step further, the Government can ban immigration from “dangerous countries”. North Korea, Venezuela and, most Muslim countries?
It is amazing how Trump’s GOP foes became Trump groupies, mesmerized by the little crumbs of power they go to beg at the Trump Tower. The oddest example is Mitt Romney. I hope that his visit to Manhattan is to set the record straight regarding this new multiphase McCarthyism and not to get more than “a red hat”. Who said that a Mormon registry will not follow a Muslim registry? Sounds familiar?
One step further, the Government can ban immigration from “dangerous countries”. North Korea, Venezuela and, most Muslim countries?
1
A southern white racist as AG. Makes deporting those enemy aliens all the easier.
2
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Our new president-elect is obviously a ego driven media junkie. He throws stuff out there for attention without finding out what is legal to do or not. If the numbers he spouts are correct or not.
After all, he has to keep "his base" happy. Doesn't really matter to him. Doesn't matter if he stirs up comparisons to WWII internment camps. Doesn't matter if he violates due process of law.
I hope he took up Mr. Khizr Kahn's kind offer to send him a copy of the Constitution and I suggest a visit to the Statue of Liberty might in order.
Our new president-elect is obviously a ego driven media junkie. He throws stuff out there for attention without finding out what is legal to do or not. If the numbers he spouts are correct or not.
After all, he has to keep "his base" happy. Doesn't really matter to him. Doesn't matter if he stirs up comparisons to WWII internment camps. Doesn't matter if he violates due process of law.
I hope he took up Mr. Khizr Kahn's kind offer to send him a copy of the Constitution and I suggest a visit to the Statue of Liberty might in order.
3
"Not three million unauthorized immigrant criminals to deport" really depends upon your view of what is criminal. While the overwhelming majority of undocumented aliens in the US are law abiding, their very presence in this country without legal authorization can be viewed as criminal. Foreign nationals entering, residing and working in the United States without proper paperwork is against Federal law and those doing so are subject to legal proceedings that more than likely will lead to deportation back to their home countries.
I believe the country is in desperate need of immigration reform those details are worthy of debate. However, your definition of what is criminal and what Mr Trump views as criminal more than likely are entirely different.
I believe the country is in desperate need of immigration reform those details are worthy of debate. However, your definition of what is criminal and what Mr Trump views as criminal more than likely are entirely different.
10
What, dare I ask, is so terrible about repatriating non-citizens with criminal records to the countries of which they are citizens?
If I committed a crime in Canada, I'd consider it reasonable for them to return me to America after a period of detention and bar my future entry to their country.
If I committed a crime in Canada, I'd consider it reasonable for them to return me to America after a period of detention and bar my future entry to their country.
21
Actually, if you have a criminal record Canada won't even let you in as a tourist.
3
This is a watershed threat, which would put our nation onto an icy, downward slope.
In many ways the moment is already at hand. A young colleague from Chile confided in me that, after living happily in our city for five years, he has been accosted three times in public since the election by people yelling that he should "Go back home!" and "Stop speaking Spanish!"
The hoary old mantra is being rewritten before our eyes: First they came for the Mexicans. Next they came for the Muslims...
This concerns all of us, not just immigrants and Hispanics. We must prepare ourselves to resist, with civil disobedience if necessary, but peacefully and without malice. We need to represent what America is at her best, not her worst.
In many ways the moment is already at hand. A young colleague from Chile confided in me that, after living happily in our city for five years, he has been accosted three times in public since the election by people yelling that he should "Go back home!" and "Stop speaking Spanish!"
The hoary old mantra is being rewritten before our eyes: First they came for the Mexicans. Next they came for the Muslims...
This concerns all of us, not just immigrants and Hispanics. We must prepare ourselves to resist, with civil disobedience if necessary, but peacefully and without malice. We need to represent what America is at her best, not her worst.
3
I am half-tempted to support this stupid roundup-of-immigrants idea by the prospect of seeing the chaos and destruction that would result. The closest thing to Ghostbusters we are ever going to get:
Venkman: … you could accept the fact that this city is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.
Mayor: What do you mean, "biblical"?
Stantz: What he means is Old Testament, Mr. Mayor. Real wrath-of-God type stuff!
Venkman: Exactly.
Stantz: Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!
Spengler: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes!
Zeddemore: The dead rising from the grave!
Venkman: Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!
Mayor: Enough, I get the point!
Venkman: … you could accept the fact that this city is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.
Mayor: What do you mean, "biblical"?
Stantz: What he means is Old Testament, Mr. Mayor. Real wrath-of-God type stuff!
Venkman: Exactly.
Stantz: Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!
Spengler: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes!
Zeddemore: The dead rising from the grave!
Venkman: Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!
Mayor: Enough, I get the point!
3
"Dogs and cats living together!"
Now that was funny...
Now that was funny...
1
A third of the border along Texas is fenced and heavily patrolled. The idea of having a secire border isn't bad, or un-American, it's just too expensive and impractical. The money illegal workers comtribute to the economy is great enough to balance the strains they put on services. Maybe we should be trying deal with urban crime by working with the gangsto make peace, the way we do with other nations. A job providing an underemployed young adult for $30,000 a year is half of what a year of prison costs taxpayers.
2
This is more loud mouthed bluster from someone who doesn't want to look at the details of what is even possible, let alone legal or desirable. Trump is in WAY over his head. With luck, he may eventually start to realize this, but I'm sure won't admit it. Instead, with the help of new right hand man Steve Bannon, he'll start down a path even more destructive and hateful than the one he has outlined so far.
1
This plan sounds strikingly familiar to what was going on in Germany before WWII
The only difference is that the "Scourge" on society is labeled "Immigrant" instead of "Jew" It really is similar. Hitler was elected under the slogan of National Identity and was an outsider and he got the country all riled up over the perceived wrongs perpetuated by the common enemy the "Jewish race". He wanted to purge them from society and started rounding them up and putting them in jail. Trump wants to do the same thing but this time he is using Immigrants as the common enemy. I think mostly South American immigrants as he says gang bangers and drug dealers and I don't see too many Islamic gangs or dealers on the street corners of Newark... I believe that if a person wants to immigrate they need to do it correctly and come through a port of entry with a passport. The same as would be expected of me to emigrate to a foreign country. However Mass deportations are not the way to do things.
The only difference is that the "Scourge" on society is labeled "Immigrant" instead of "Jew" It really is similar. Hitler was elected under the slogan of National Identity and was an outsider and he got the country all riled up over the perceived wrongs perpetuated by the common enemy the "Jewish race". He wanted to purge them from society and started rounding them up and putting them in jail. Trump wants to do the same thing but this time he is using Immigrants as the common enemy. I think mostly South American immigrants as he says gang bangers and drug dealers and I don't see too many Islamic gangs or dealers on the street corners of Newark... I believe that if a person wants to immigrate they need to do it correctly and come through a port of entry with a passport. The same as would be expected of me to emigrate to a foreign country. However Mass deportations are not the way to do things.
1
So typical of Trump and his shoot from the cuff, unthinking approach to governing. Facts carry little weight and practicality almost none. Have we ever had a Presdient who has so little relation to the truth? Who cares so little about whether what he says is true?
He'll increase the production of coal and natural gas - an impossibility; China is stll devaluing it's currency, 3-4 million illegals are criminals; it just goes and on.
He'll increase the production of coal and natural gas - an impossibility; China is stll devaluing it's currency, 3-4 million illegals are criminals; it just goes and on.
2
I spoke to a major farmer in South Dakota last week. He stated that if the trump keel haul goes ahead "there will be no breakfast on the tables in America" within 3 days.
Likewise social security payments will be off by billions, entire neighborhoods will be denuded of good hard working people and the 53 per cent of white women who voted for Trump will find child care, diaper changing, cooking and cleaning tasks they may have to handle themselves. How icky for them!
Likewise social security payments will be off by billions, entire neighborhoods will be denuded of good hard working people and the 53 per cent of white women who voted for Trump will find child care, diaper changing, cooking and cleaning tasks they may have to handle themselves. How icky for them!
5
As a former farmer, i can tell you the reason is that farmers across the midwest hire illegal immigrants to do the farm work. It might raise prices but at least it will be because businesses will be forced to follow the law and hire either actual legal green card holders or legal citizens. Also, farmers are bit overdramatic when it comes to money and crops. They always find a way.
3
I think that's an extreme exaggeration. We need solutions to a real problem. However, I believe that if his plan takes place the costs of goods and services will increase as payroll expenses increase to employ Americans to do the job illegal immigrants and greedy business owners took from hard working Americans. Pay a decent salary and you'll see many Americans line up. The market will determine if the price of products and services is too much and will adjust.
2
Every nation in earth has laws controlling immigration. You and I can not simply go to a neighboring country and hope to work and live without documentation.
Shall we not enforce at all our own laws? How about a little bit? We need engineers and software specialists but the visa program has limits far far lower than the illegals we turn a blind eye to. Rational? Compassionate? Intellectually dishonest and silly.
Shall we not enforce at all our own laws? How about a little bit? We need engineers and software specialists but the visa program has limits far far lower than the illegals we turn a blind eye to. Rational? Compassionate? Intellectually dishonest and silly.
15
I have already seen the effects of Trump's plans to deport immigrants among my patients in the sanctuary city of Chicago. Fear of coming for needed health care, in some cases fear of leaving their homes because they believe they will be picked up for no particular reason, fear of being separated from their children. These are all hardworking people who have in many cases lived in Chicago for decades, with no criminal background.
Instilling this fear is already causing serious damage. And that's the point of Trump's immigration "policy".
Instilling this fear is already causing serious damage. And that's the point of Trump's immigration "policy".
92
He is not even in charge yet. And when he is, Mr. Emanuel has publicly stated he will not support the Federal government in this matter. So I think you and your patients are naive on this "policy".
And if I am to stop every racist act I see, should I also be stopping every illegal act also? Shouldn't you be stopping that continuing act if you and, I presume, your fellow companions, are going to ask me to intervene when someone's feelings are hurt? I say feelings because I would again intervene in a physical altercation.
And if I am to stop every racist act I see, should I also be stopping every illegal act also? Shouldn't you be stopping that continuing act if you and, I presume, your fellow companions, are going to ask me to intervene when someone's feelings are hurt? I say feelings because I would again intervene in a physical altercation.
1
Well if they are afraid they could return to their home country and get in line to come here legally.
2
I have called my Senator Dick Durbin and congresswoman Jane Schakowsky and ask them if they knew how many illegal are in our prison sys. federal, state and local. Also what the cost are to keep them incarcerated and then to deport, they never returned my call so for all those who want illegal to stay then you can pay the bill not me.
8
Survival is a huge motivator. Many who have entered our country have come looking for work others seeking protection from violent regions. Europe is experiencing the same as people migrate from war ravaged lands or drought each seeking work, peace, hope. These "people" are no different than coal miners and other unemployed Americans who want jobs that replace their lost wages. Unfortunately retail jobs don't pay nearly as well as industrial ones. Deportation is not the answer. It is cruel and costly. It will cause much unnecessary fear for many with the wrong skin color - even if here legally. It will create division in our country between those attempting to protect the undocumented and those trying to deport. It is not a response that makes America look great to anyone. In addition, many of the jobs no longer handled by those deported will not be filled by white Americans who want much better paying work.
2
We've been hearing about fake news in the aftermath of this election. There are even some kind of bots that send out fake tweets by the thousands. Apparently, they played a role in the Brexit vote and excited outrage at Hillary Clinton in this country.
Donald Trump apparently tweeted that he saved a Ford factory in Kentucky that did not plan to leave. That's a different thing, but it suggests that he will not be abandoning his distortion of truth as he assumes the presidency.
The millions deported by President Obama included people who got caught in non-violent crimes like traffic violations. Serious analysis suggests the undocumented don't commit a lot of crimes because they want to stay below the radar of law enforcement.
What we really need at this point is a comprehensive plan to resolve the status of the millions who are living in limbo. It should be possible with the border as secure as it has ever been. It's too bad that politics will make it impossible.
It's pretty easy for Donald Trump to make this announcement to assure his supporters that he's fulfilling his promises. It's likely a lot of them will never realize if that's as far as it goes.
Donald Trump apparently tweeted that he saved a Ford factory in Kentucky that did not plan to leave. That's a different thing, but it suggests that he will not be abandoning his distortion of truth as he assumes the presidency.
The millions deported by President Obama included people who got caught in non-violent crimes like traffic violations. Serious analysis suggests the undocumented don't commit a lot of crimes because they want to stay below the radar of law enforcement.
What we really need at this point is a comprehensive plan to resolve the status of the millions who are living in limbo. It should be possible with the border as secure as it has ever been. It's too bad that politics will make it impossible.
It's pretty easy for Donald Trump to make this announcement to assure his supporters that he's fulfilling his promises. It's likely a lot of them will never realize if that's as far as it goes.
2
The recent observation that Trump opponents take his proposals literally but not seriously and his supporters seriously but not literally comes to mind when reading this editorial. Trump intends to deport criminal illegals much as Obama has done. He knows as well as The Board that there are not millions of criminals and has no intention of having a deportation force or deporting the 11 million. The President-Elect used exaggeration (call it a dog-whistle if you want) very successfully during the campaign. Watch what he does and not what he says and then editorialize.
1
Look for this plan to really happen, along with his Muslim registry. All it takes is a quick screening of videos from Trumps rallies to see that these were the issues for which his voters were screaming. If he makes good on the white nationalist agenda, he can probably get away with all kinds of policy thievery and betrayals. Attacks on Medicare, and other policies designed to harm his working class voters with fly under the radar while he claims victory--look how many I deported, look how I banned those Muslims! For many, economic ruin will come cloaked in 'America first" white nationalist pride.
2
Nonsense editorial. Sorry NY Times-------------time for criminal illegal aliens to go. Your mantra is tiresome. Mexicans who sneak across the border do not have the right to hunker down and hide and stay forever. Those who commit crimes should be deported even faster. I never read in history where 11 or 12 million Europeans flooded the USA illegally then stayed and demanded citizenship.
16
Details, sh-details, please do not bother Trump with details!
1
Communities of faith are not waiting for Mr. Trump's purges to begin. Last week we cried together. Now we organize.
2
Are the US Immigration Laws not indeed laws? And if one breaks those laws, doesn't that make one a law-breaker and by definition a criminal? If we're not a nation of laws, then what are we? Can the NYT's Editorial Board, or anyone else, decide to dismiss our Immigration Laws on a whim? What's next? Will the NYT's Editorial Board soon dismiss murder and rape as crimes? Where does one stop?
As long as the US Immigration Laws are part of the law of the land, it is not the place of the NYT, or a city mayor, or a college professor, or anyone else to declare that those laws should be ignored. Clearly, Donald Trump is President Elect because the citizens of this country want their laws enforced.
As long as the US Immigration Laws are part of the law of the land, it is not the place of the NYT, or a city mayor, or a college professor, or anyone else to declare that those laws should be ignored. Clearly, Donald Trump is President Elect because the citizens of this country want their laws enforced.
21
Not to worry! In a year from now, Trump will declare "Mission Accomplished." He will say that he did it! He'll say that he's deported 3 million immigrants! Further, as a result of this accomplishment, Americans are now safe from being killed by illegals. And like every thing else he says, it will be pure fabrication. And like every thing else he says, his supporters will believe him.
165
In 2008 there were 30 million uninsured in the US. In 2016, there are 30 million uninsured after ObamaCare at a cost of $1.3 trillion for ten years. [Of the $1.3 trillion in spending, roughly $1.0 trillion is going to line the pockets of big med.]
Obama supporters, most of whom were prepared to vote for his appointed successor, believed and praised his fabrication. The rational voted for Trump.
Obama supporters, most of whom were prepared to vote for his appointed successor, believed and praised his fabrication. The rational voted for Trump.
2
You show zero compassion for the families whose loved ones were murdered or raped by illegal aliens, some of whom were deported 5-6 times?
2
I understand that in the simplistic minds of Donald Trump and his followers you can simply just round up illegals and deport them. Trouble is, how do you tell an illegal immigrant from a legal one or a US citizen of Hispanic descent? Do you assume that all poor hispanics are illegally here? Do we all have to apply for some sort of ID card after proving our citizenship in some sort of "papers please" state? What happens when invariably a Trump Administration rounds up American Citizens? How do they prove their citizenship? How would you prove yours? Who do we round up and deport next after that? Democrats? Are Trump and his followers saying that we have outgrown being a nation of justice, of fairness, of freedom? I wonder.
Well that's the frightening side of it all. The president elect won't explain his magical plan to tackle this process nor does he step up to his twitter account to put the nation at ease. You know, things a president should be doing. The odds are that this idea is so ludicrous it can't be done in 4 years (or 8) without breaking the bank or breaking the constitution and really hurting law already underfunded law enforcement departments across the country.
1
Donald Trump is a buffoon. We have elected a spoiled brat who thrives on attention, and like a two year old child, he doesn't care if it's negative attention as long as he gets some attention, any kind of attention. It is all that attention that got him elected, and now with the attention continuing, he rants and raves on and on about anything that makes the news about him. We've become addicted to this carnival side-show and that just plays more and more into his hands.
The best thing we could do for the rest of the country is to start ignoring his tantrums. Let his ignorant attempts to govern without a shred of understanding go unnoticed. Most of what he says he'd like to do will never happen anyway. Much of it is either impossible or illegal. He's up the proverbial $#!t creek without a paddle, but too dumb to know it, as are those who believe in his snake-oil sales-pitches and carnival-barker tirades.
Stop with all this attention. That's exactly what he seeks. And frankly, that's all he seeks, nothing else. He doesn't care about me or you or anyone, not even his children. It's all about himself.
The best thing we could do for the rest of the country is to start ignoring his tantrums. Let his ignorant attempts to govern without a shred of understanding go unnoticed. Most of what he says he'd like to do will never happen anyway. Much of it is either impossible or illegal. He's up the proverbial $#!t creek without a paddle, but too dumb to know it, as are those who believe in his snake-oil sales-pitches and carnival-barker tirades.
Stop with all this attention. That's exactly what he seeks. And frankly, that's all he seeks, nothing else. He doesn't care about me or you or anyone, not even his children. It's all about himself.
1
"Donald Trump’s Plan to Purge the Nation"
"He would have to haul away a lot of terrific people, and terrorize many more, to hit that mark."
I must have missed the NYT headline
"Barrack Obama's Purge of the Nation"
followed by
"Obama hauled away a lot of terrific people, and terrorized many more, to hit that mark."
Obama deported, and Trump plans to deport, about the same number, two million felonious immigrants.
The editorial content of the NYT is comically biased...
"He would have to haul away a lot of terrific people, and terrorize many more, to hit that mark."
I must have missed the NYT headline
"Barrack Obama's Purge of the Nation"
followed by
"Obama hauled away a lot of terrific people, and terrorized many more, to hit that mark."
Obama deported, and Trump plans to deport, about the same number, two million felonious immigrants.
The editorial content of the NYT is comically biased...
8
Why does the NYT say that out of 11 million illegals there aren't 11 million criminals. They're all criminals. All in this country illegally. And do matter how many times the NYT says they're unauthorized, the fact remains that if you commit a criminal act, as in entering our country illegally, you are now a criminal.
15
Great. Where's the plan, how much is this going to cost, and beyond an impossible to build/waste of money wall/impossible to patrol 24/7 wall - how are we making sure these countries stop allowing terrorism and financial hardships to push people into our borders? You fixed that last issue (i.e.:make it safe and worth while to go home) and they WILL go home. Everything else is just a bandaid on a gaping wound.
Sure. And if you apply the same lumbering judgment indiscriminately across the entire population, anyone who shaves a bit off their declared income, routinely goes over the speed limit or smokes a joint is a "criminal". These people, the vast majority of whom are simply trying to provide for themselves and their families are bundled together and singled out -- not because they pose any particular threat, but because of ignorance and fear that is evolving into hate before our very eyes. O, but we forget the lessons of history. Who among us truly claims to be perfect in the eyes of the law? How many of us are not descendants of people who took the very same risks?
So maybe his estimate is too high and there are only 3 to 5 hundred thousand illegal immigrant felons that need deporting. Great.
10
"Mexicans. Rapists. Murderers. Stealing our jobs. The wall."
This is Trump. Nobody should be surprised. It was laid before the American people, and they went for it.
Incidentally, 100,000,000 Americans were not bothered to vote. I wonder how they're feeling now? Racism and the politics of fear are terrible realities. Apathy? Far worse.
This is Trump. Nobody should be surprised. It was laid before the American people, and they went for it.
Incidentally, 100,000,000 Americans were not bothered to vote. I wonder how they're feeling now? Racism and the politics of fear are terrible realities. Apathy? Far worse.
3
Another part of the equation that will work against rapid deportation of such large numbers: where do you send them? It will take a lot of work at great cost to first positively identify nationality and then make the legal arrangements for return. Other countries aren't simply going to let planeloads of deportees enter their airspace and land at their airports because Trump says so.
2
Your first sentence is right. There are not 3 million illegal alien criminals. There are an estimated 11 million people whose first act in our country was to break our immigration laws. Regardless of what the left wing New York Times says, we have every right to deport people who break our immigration laws. Don't get me started on "sanctuary cities". I guess that is why New York City has the New York Times; neither of you have respect for our laws.
15
You can be sure there will be one group of illegals that will be protected by Trump as they have been by Democrats: Cubans entering the U.S. will be protected and welcomed. The 30,000 or so Cubans who have been convicted of a crime but are, for the most part, walking around free, will not be deported because of the 1966 Cuban Adjustment Act. Cuban illegals can enter the U.S. anywhere and be accepted, while all others must enter only through specified portals, and can get a green card after a year and a day. Cubans who enter illegally can also get public services, including SSI, in state tuition at universities, relocation money and many other benefits. And unlike others who entered illegally and apply for citizenship, receiving public assistance does not preclude them from consideration.
5
Charles of Tecumseh, Michigan says "If you just disagree about the number, then you should have nothing to worry about, because Trump's own policy will limit deportation to an appropriate number and will prove the 2 to 3 million number to be political posturing."
I don't accept that "political posturing" is nothing to worry about. "Political posturing" to the degree that Trump employed it is a euphemism for lies and fake news of the worst kind. NY Times today reports another Tweet from Trump falsely claiming to have saved an auto plant in Kentucky, so apparently the lying will continue.
The White House was just purchased by a charlatan who was selling nothing more than "political posturing." That's good enough to win the votes of the soft-headed, but it's not good enough for the realities of the modern world. That America is the nation where this extreme hocus-POTUS could occur is flabbergasting.
I don't accept that "political posturing" is nothing to worry about. "Political posturing" to the degree that Trump employed it is a euphemism for lies and fake news of the worst kind. NY Times today reports another Tweet from Trump falsely claiming to have saved an auto plant in Kentucky, so apparently the lying will continue.
The White House was just purchased by a charlatan who was selling nothing more than "political posturing." That's good enough to win the votes of the soft-headed, but it's not good enough for the realities of the modern world. That America is the nation where this extreme hocus-POTUS could occur is flabbergasting.
5
Doesn't it cost $30-50,000 a year to imprison a single person? How do we justify this expense?
4
Sadly, Dorothy, by forcing them to build a wall.
Your editorial's title alone is bone-chilling, sickening in fact. I suppose one would have to go back to the McCarthy era to read a headline like this. But even then the scale of the danger to democracy and American values was not as great as what we are facing today.
Democracies by definition do not purge; only totalitarian regimes purge themselves. Is that where we are headed within sixty days? God help us!
Democracies by definition do not purge; only totalitarian regimes purge themselves. Is that where we are headed within sixty days? God help us!
155
The subject of this editorial is troubling. More troubling is the proposed appointment of Jeff Sessions as attorney general as reported just now by The Times. One can now expand the purge beyond Latinos to African Americans in the United States.
Perhaps these two groups will turn out and vote in four years.
Perhaps these two groups will turn out and vote in four years.
6
Given that SCOTUS gutted the Voting Rights Act and Republican districts carried out ridiculous voter suppression this past election, I highly doubt that. It's not as simple as just "turning out and voting."
1
The people of most states simply voted for Trump's proposals NYT!
You made your case for a couple of years and you lost.
The Republic supports Trump's plans and views on immigration,
not yours. Isn't it time you respect its view?
You made your case for a couple of years and you lost.
The Republic supports Trump's plans and views on immigration,
not yours. Isn't it time you respect its view?
15
No. And the utter hypocrisy of conservatives demanding it after 8 years of not only not respecting the current president's plans and views, but the man himself, is beyond belief.
Welcome to the world you created.
Welcome to the world you created.
1
One can respectfully disagree (or if one emulates Trump, not respectfully) that is what people and the media are doing, in fact a free media and being allowed to disagree and say one's piece is a hallmark of democracy.
Or are you suggesting that disagreement should not be tolerated now Trump is at the helm? That it called despotism not democracy.
Or are you suggesting that disagreement should not be tolerated now Trump is at the helm? That it called despotism not democracy.
You mean like how it was once incumbent upon people to accept a geo-centric solar system?
Ignorance should never be respected.
Ignorance should never be respected.
The reason for the elections results are exactly because of this kind of thinking. Let's spend more time thinking about how to make this work to reduce violence towards Americans and less time worrying about the possibility of collateral damage to illegal aliens.
12
This is the correct type of protest. As pointed out in another op-ed today:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/18/opinion/the-right-way-to-resist-trump....
there is a productive and non-productive way to resist Trump. The protesters who, despite good intentions, are probably doing more to help Trump than hurt him would do well to direct their energies to assisting their communities and coming up with a plan of action should Trump follow through on this. Local leaders, business people, the police and of course the immigrants themselves are going to need a lot of support in the coming months if the idea of a "sanctuary city" is going to survive in the face of certain Washington resistance.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/18/opinion/the-right-way-to-resist-trump....
there is a productive and non-productive way to resist Trump. The protesters who, despite good intentions, are probably doing more to help Trump than hurt him would do well to direct their energies to assisting their communities and coming up with a plan of action should Trump follow through on this. Local leaders, business people, the police and of course the immigrants themselves are going to need a lot of support in the coming months if the idea of a "sanctuary city" is going to survive in the face of certain Washington resistance.
3
The 2017 version of the KKK is getting ready to sweep through neighborhoods doing their own brand of deporting. Breaking news... Trump has offered attorney general position to Sessions who has a clouded racial history. This is just the start and I'm a very scared old white woman.
9
Who will pick the fruits and vegetables?
6
How about legal workers who get paid a reasonable wage and have nml job security? As it is now we may pay 10 cents / # less for tomatoes but the workers can be abused and the growers let the rest of us pick up the tab for the dishonest abussive system we have now.
1
Eric and Donald Jr.
1
I had enough Trump for a lifetime already. It would be wise for NYT to switch the narrative from the Trump persona and his soundbites to reporting and opining on the Trump Administration, the Republican Congress. Start focus on policy not on the man
10
In 1954, President Eisenhower launched a roundup that removed about 1.5 unauthorized immigrants in just several months. So, if the Editorial Board is correct about the number of criminal illegal immigrants, ICE should be able to resume deporting illegal immigrants simply for being unlawfully present before the end of Trump’s first year in office. However, both sides on the illegal immigration issue should compromise. Americans are reluctant to support another amnesty because they know open border advocates will work to thwart efforts to curtail future illegal immigration. We should enact Congressional legislation that empowers states, counties and cities to make it unlawful for unauthorized immigrants to reside within their jurisdictions. We should amend or reinterpret the citizenship clause to grant birthright citizenship only to children born to U.S. parents or to legal permanent residents. We should automatically deny asylum to migrants who enter the country unlawfully before requesting asylum. (Asylum-seeker should requests asylum at U.S. embassies or consulates in their home countries.) Once these measures are in place, we should grant citizenship to illegal immigrants enrolled in the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program and permanent resident status to other illegal immigrants who have established households in the United States.
5
Thank you for making some sense! Can you please print this out and send it to president trump? Equally, a strong diplomatic effort to find out why these people are leaving as well as a plan to work with these countries to fix societal / economic problems facing them so that illegal immigrants start going home on their own would be terrific!
I doubt you'll find many, if any, cities and counties eager to take on immigration policing. Check the law: It's a federal responsibility only. Police are already overworked with their current tasks.
"Unauthorized"? Is this another term for undocumented, meant to imply that some paper work has been misplaced or not filled out?? Let's try illegal. There are millions and millions of illegals. Like it or not nyts, that's the correct term. A couple weeks after the election and you still can't bring yourselves to face the fact that the average citizen is not buying the open borders, tripe that the left has been peddling for 30 years. Trump had better start enforcing our laws and lead the way to real immigration reform: an end to birthright citizenship, no chain migration, e-verify, secure borders and employer sanctions. If he back tracks he'll be dumped just like hrc and the dems. The average u.s. citizen of every ethnicity wants whoever leads this country to put their needs ahead of everybody who's come here illegally.
20
Do you even think the Republican-controlled Congress will ever vote for any of the things you/Trump propose? "Employer sanctions"? Where do you think all their political contributions come from - homeless "real Americans"?
Ending the "birthright citizenship" involves changing the US Constitution. You might want to read it. Perhaps Trump could loan you the copy Mr. Khan saved for him.
Trump can't just wave a wand and do what he wants, contrary to your view of basic civics and democracy.
Ending the "birthright citizenship" involves changing the US Constitution. You might want to read it. Perhaps Trump could loan you the copy Mr. Khan saved for him.
Trump can't just wave a wand and do what he wants, contrary to your view of basic civics and democracy.
"President-elect Donald Trump says he will move immediately to deport or imprison two million, maybe three million, unauthorized-immigrant criminals."
"Start with the fact that the target number is made up."
OK, I'll concede that Trump doesn't know exactly how many illegal immigrants there are in this country.
"According to rough estimates by the Migration Policy Institute, of the country’s 11 million unauthorized immigrants, about 820,000 have criminal records. About 300,000 of those..."
How did they come up with those numbers? And why is it that you're going to use them to "prove" Trump doesn't know what he's talking about?
"Start with the fact that the target number is made up."
OK, I'll concede that Trump doesn't know exactly how many illegal immigrants there are in this country.
"According to rough estimates by the Migration Policy Institute, of the country’s 11 million unauthorized immigrants, about 820,000 have criminal records. About 300,000 of those..."
How did they come up with those numbers? And why is it that you're going to use them to "prove" Trump doesn't know what he's talking about?
11
Maybe Jared can take away his twitter feed.
3
“after the border is secured and after everything gets normalized.” I'm amazed at this statement from Trump camp and that few have questioned it. After the border is secured?? How does one calculate that? What is normalized?? This is such squishy language amounts to saying nothing at all.
12
After this election you're surprised nobody has questioned that statement?
Well, FYI, that statement is simply locker-room talk...
Things are going to be Yuge, believe me. Ok?
Well, FYI, that statement is simply locker-room talk...
Things are going to be Yuge, believe me. Ok?
You know what? Throwing out three million hispanic people probably wont create one single job in small town America. Not one. Only break up families.
10
Or spur inventors to develop machines for picking lettuce and other vegetables. And process chicken at industrial meat plants, etc.
We are friends with a couple who came here illegally almost twenty years ago, planning to work for a year or two to save money then return home and open a small business. Time passed. They made friends, their twins arrived, and they have both worked and saved like mad. When they realized this was home, they hired an immigration attorney. He advised them to pay their taxes and bills diligently, keep accurate records, not leave the country for any reason, not to get as much as a jay-walking ticket, and wait for amnesty. He works two jobs, she works full time, their boys are excellent students, and the whole family is absolutely terrified of Donald Trump.
They haven't seen their family back in Mexico in over a decade, but in spite of our very different backgrounds I feel like they are part of mine. So ... Aside from hiding these good people in my attic when The Trump Purge begins, what can I do to help them?
They haven't seen their family back in Mexico in over a decade, but in spite of our very different backgrounds I feel like they are part of mine. So ... Aside from hiding these good people in my attic when The Trump Purge begins, what can I do to help them?
295
Well they got bad advise, broke the law, and now you can't do much to help them. The best advice is to continue as they have after all Trump has said there will be a process for law abiding people. If they are afraid perhaps they should return to their country, and get in line to come here legally.
1
KJ, you can do what we all should have done before November 8 - Get out the vote for reason and sanity.
There is no purge coming, but illegal is illegal...they are breaking our laws..............why should they be treated differently? illegal aliens are law breakers.
1
It's been 10 days now and I haven't heard one talking head gushing about 'the shining city on the hill.' Why's that?
5
Perhaps he could have a video game made for himself called "Immigration Purge" and play that instead. He is a crazy man with a small brain and other parts. He will bluster a lot and then do nothing. Only if he misuses the military need we fear. Then we are in trouble.
6
How much 'sanctuary' do we owe individuals that are present in our country after illegally crossing an international border and evading registration with State and local authorities? Would I be allowed to languish in immigration court if I chose to set up a long-term, unauthorized homestead in Zermatt ?
No.
Trump's stated plan, in broad strokes, is to enforce the rule of law. That's what a roughly equal proportion of voters supported when they voted, for Trump. And he won.
With a matched executive branch and congress in place, we shall see the wheels of this government really start to really move.
No.
Trump's stated plan, in broad strokes, is to enforce the rule of law. That's what a roughly equal proportion of voters supported when they voted, for Trump. And he won.
With a matched executive branch and congress in place, we shall see the wheels of this government really start to really move.
22
Mass deportation is not the solution only breaks families make things worse. If you do that, new undocumented people will keep coming, Americans will keep hiring them because they need workers to do the job but now at a lower wedge because 'la migra' can get you anytime.
Additionaly, the lazy Americans that don't want to work as hard as undocumented do for that kind of pay will continue the whining.
Additionaly, the lazy Americans that don't want to work as hard as undocumented do for that kind of pay will continue the whining.
"With a matched executive branch and congress in place, we shall see the wheels of this government really start to really move."
Don't hold your breath.
Don't hold your breath.
What happens to this country when the wheels have no brakes.
Time for Progressives to stick up on their own guns. A militia defends its country.
2
This is a two point problem. First stop illegal immigration of all kinds, that means not only securing our borders but also our visa laws. Second deal with the people already here. If white men have to again cut their grass, shovel snow and carry bricks so be it. Always remember, for every action there is a opposite and equal reaction. You can not change physis.
5
Sounds legit. Hope you like paying $5 for a head of lettuce.
Ah New York City! A big bubble full of people who think they are the center of the universe and that they understand what life is like for the other 6 billion people in the world. I'm 59 year old and white and I've never had anyone other than me cut my grass, shovel my snow or carry my bricks. Neither does anyone else I know. Out here in fly over country, we knuckle dragging, mouth breathers do our own work.....and we follow the laws. We don't break into our neighbor's homes and eat their food and we don't cross our neighboring nations borders and use their resources. Rent a car and drive west, far west and find out how the rest of the world lives. You're in for a real eye opener.
1
"You cannot change physics." Does Trump know this? He does not believe in science - or religion for that matter. The universe revolves around him so he can do as he pleases - as we have painfully witnessed.
eof - Trump will eat his lettuce on TV on Air Force One just to rub it in to all of us little taxpaying people.
eof - Trump will eat his lettuce on TV on Air Force One just to rub it in to all of us little taxpaying people.
Who will pick the fruit, repair the roofs, and cut the grass?
3
You do know we had fruit, roofs that didn't leak, and manicured lawns before illegals? I worked my way through college working for my uncle from the age of 14 doing landscaping.
1
Love the commenter that has no problem with undocumented immigrants who "cut his grass." That's the vast majority of them.
As for this crime wave of foreign gangs - you'd think there would be news reports of the violence if this were really something serious. Instead murder rates (and actual numbers of murders) are the lowest in my lifetime. When I lived in NYC in the '80s there were 2,000 murders a year. Now, that number is down 75% or more. We know drug gangs in Mexico are extremely violent. They become pacifists when they enter the US?
As for this crime wave of foreign gangs - you'd think there would be news reports of the violence if this were really something serious. Instead murder rates (and actual numbers of murders) are the lowest in my lifetime. When I lived in NYC in the '80s there were 2,000 murders a year. Now, that number is down 75% or more. We know drug gangs in Mexico are extremely violent. They become pacifists when they enter the US?
2
The most violent and brutal of all the mafias/gangs are the Russians.
Perhaps it is a good time to reread Kafka's "The Trial". The mazes of bureaucracy and the impenetrable reasonings of "justice" are what we are going to see very soon. We know this Trump to be a pathological liar - Lyin' Ted told us so and it takes one to know one. So we can expect this process to proceed with plenty of pathological features. And who do you think will build the camps, prisons, and jails to hold all these presumed degenerates? Why, a man who builds things for a profession perhaps?
8
Seventy years ago, I learned this: "What does it profit a man who gains the whole world and suffers the loss of his own soul."
If Donald Trump really wants to be "somebody" other than having his name on a few buildings he should try " humility" otherwise generations from now will realize he was simply someone who made a lot of noise.
If Donald Trump really wants to be "somebody" other than having his name on a few buildings he should try " humility" otherwise generations from now will realize he was simply someone who made a lot of noise.
3
Now that Trump has won the election, we see no change in his irresponsible nonsense. He is a disaster, and it is none too soon to initiate impeachment proceedings. Democrats in the Congress should get at it. Democracy is at stake.
6
Are there any democrats left in congress?
1
We can't do it--he has Pence insurance!
1
August 29, 2016 article by ABC news stated that President Obama deported 2.5 million criminals. From what I have heard, President-elect Trump wants to deport the criminals also. And, the nytimes.com reported recently about a man who was adopted 40 years ago and whose parents did not do the proper paperwork. The man lost his final hearing and is expected to be deported to South Korea.
It is sad that YOU, nytimes.com, are the face of hate.
It is sad that YOU, nytimes.com, are the face of hate.
1
I'm sorry. I'm a Hillary supporter but there are laws for a reason. Mr. Trump should enforce the laws but not in the radical way he proposes.
And to this day, Hillary's promise to the country was that she will not deport "one undocumented immigrant as long as they have not committed a violent crime" was a large contributing cause that cost her the election.
And to this day, Hillary's promise to the country was that she will not deport "one undocumented immigrant as long as they have not committed a violent crime" was a large contributing cause that cost her the election.
12
Those who want to stop illegal aliens from taking jobs in the US should focus on preventing employers from hiring illegal aliens. Before the 1986 Immigration Reform and Control Act there were no real penalties for hiring illegals.
Following this act the GWB and then Obama administrations ramped up enforcement, but the record is mixed -- see here
http://tinyurl.com/gtbg883
for a Politifact discussion/fact-check about claims on this complex issue.
At present companies are not required to use E-Verify (some states require it, and businesses doing certain kinds of work for the federal government must).
Simply making E-Verify mandatory for all employers and stiffening penalties would be far more effectual and far less costly than massive deportation sweeps.
There's a reality though -- there's no real political will from Republicans to have all these people go. it's all kabuki -- the Republicans want them here to do the jobs Americans don't want to do (starting with agricultural labor), keep the wage scale down, and in reality hard-working immigrants are what keeps America from stagnating in many ways.
Do Trump's businesses use E-Verify? Betcha they don't. (Of course a lot of the Trump-branded businesses aren't Trump's, he has no equity in them. But it could be a requirement to use the brand.)
How many illegal aliens do the Trump hotels and golf courses use?
Following this act the GWB and then Obama administrations ramped up enforcement, but the record is mixed -- see here
http://tinyurl.com/gtbg883
for a Politifact discussion/fact-check about claims on this complex issue.
At present companies are not required to use E-Verify (some states require it, and businesses doing certain kinds of work for the federal government must).
Simply making E-Verify mandatory for all employers and stiffening penalties would be far more effectual and far less costly than massive deportation sweeps.
There's a reality though -- there's no real political will from Republicans to have all these people go. it's all kabuki -- the Republicans want them here to do the jobs Americans don't want to do (starting with agricultural labor), keep the wage scale down, and in reality hard-working immigrants are what keeps America from stagnating in many ways.
Do Trump's businesses use E-Verify? Betcha they don't. (Of course a lot of the Trump-branded businesses aren't Trump's, he has no equity in them. But it could be a requirement to use the brand.)
How many illegal aliens do the Trump hotels and golf courses use?
6
I am quite frankly tired of Trump supporters blaming others for their miserable lives. Globalization left you behind? Boo-hoo... man up, stop whining and put yourself together. There are no jobs where you live? Move. It's a big country with lots of opportunities in lots of places. You can't make a living doing what you do? Learn something else; reinvent yourself. Life is complex and sometimes it's hard and it doesn't come with a free pass based on the color of one's skin.
6
Maybe you didn't notice--Trump supporters won. Elections have consequences. Maybe you should think about moving. You can't make a living elsewhere? Stand in line for the country of your choice. Be patient. Life is complex and sometimes it's hard and it doesn't come with a free pass based on the decibel range of your hissy fit.
1
Well said.
I am quite frankly tired of many people lumping all Trump supporters as disenfranchised voters who "feel the world has left them behind". Maybe they should reflect on the fact that millions who voted for Trump had multiple reasons and issues for why they elected this candidate, e.g. Corporate Taxes, ACA, Illegal Immigration, secure borders (mean a sovereign nation), bloated government, runaway federal regulations implemented by unelected officials, etc.
He wasn't elected by a monolithic voting bloc; many of his voters elected President Obama twice.
He wasn't elected by a monolithic voting bloc; many of his voters elected President Obama twice.
1
When will the NYT understand many Americans are furious at illegal immigration (its costs to emergency healthcare, funds for public school for children of illegal immigrants etc, public services to the children born to illegal immigrants) that they do not care how it's "fixed" they just want millions of them out? NYT readers should occasionally check out Fox News (it makes me ill) to see what others and many in middle America feel is their reality. If the NYT actually wants Americans to care about potential looming civil rights violations, they need to show they care about the real frustrations that many Americans have with illegal immigration. It's not a matter of good or bad, criminal or hardworking, economically feasible versus financially foolhardy when it comes to deportation. It's not Latino versus all other illegal groups either. Many Americans simply want acknowledgement that they play by the rules and liberals don't care about them, they care about illegal immigrants instead. It's why they keep screaming liberals aren't patriotic. Many know there are only so many dollars to fund public services and while their child may need additional special learning support, the district is trying to fund ESL teachers as well for children who aren't even here legally. It's partly why Trump won. The sooner we recognize and affirm their frustration, the faster we can work together toward common sense reform.
115
Maybe you should stop watching Fox, because the root of illegal immigration is illegal employment and its underground economy. The people benefitting from this are business people. Do you honestly think Trump will address this? Do you think he will go against his fellow business people, heck his wife worked illegally! Also I think you missed an important part of this article, Obama has deported 2.5 million.........so what's your beef?
2
Really? How many people are coming in contact with "illegals"? How many can name where they are? Basically, these immigration is a created political crisis that people fell for.
You want to save money? First, start with billions in corporate welfare and farm subsidiaries. Start with Medicare and Medicaid fraud. I'm not talking about the recipients, I'm talking about the drug treatment popup centers and crooked medical professionals that overbill and cheat the government and hence cheat the taxpayer. Start with tax breaks for the super rich. Their money doesn't trickle down. Instead, their money buys $10,000 bracelets from the likes of Ivanka and luxurious products from the rich. Start with lucrative government contracts that rich officials give their best buds (think Bush and Haliburton - did Bush start a fake war so his friends could reap the rewards of war - getting even richer?) Start with rich fat cats like trump who didn't pay any taxes for the past 18 years. Not some poor slob who sneaks over the border to pick lettuce for pennies so you can afford to buy lettuce. Go after rich executives who give each other million dollar bonuses while shipping your job overseas.
This vote was supposed to be a revolution, but it's not. And it will never be until people recognize they are being duped and stop picking on the poor and defenseless and the colored and start going after the rich and the powerful.
Please, buy a clue.
You want to save money? First, start with billions in corporate welfare and farm subsidiaries. Start with Medicare and Medicaid fraud. I'm not talking about the recipients, I'm talking about the drug treatment popup centers and crooked medical professionals that overbill and cheat the government and hence cheat the taxpayer. Start with tax breaks for the super rich. Their money doesn't trickle down. Instead, their money buys $10,000 bracelets from the likes of Ivanka and luxurious products from the rich. Start with lucrative government contracts that rich officials give their best buds (think Bush and Haliburton - did Bush start a fake war so his friends could reap the rewards of war - getting even richer?) Start with rich fat cats like trump who didn't pay any taxes for the past 18 years. Not some poor slob who sneaks over the border to pick lettuce for pennies so you can afford to buy lettuce. Go after rich executives who give each other million dollar bonuses while shipping your job overseas.
This vote was supposed to be a revolution, but it's not. And it will never be until people recognize they are being duped and stop picking on the poor and defenseless and the colored and start going after the rich and the powerful.
Please, buy a clue.
1
@AP - if you're worried about money you should look not at illegal immigration but elsewhere. There are vast amounts being diverted away from public good into the pockets of many who already have a lot. And now you've elected one of them as president - makes no sense, if you really truly care!
You know, the Headlines keep screaming, "Trump wants to Deport 3 million people", and yet I have also read that no President has deported more people than President Obama (around 2.5 million). It would really help me put things into perspective, if you could tell me who Obama deported and why, and how that is different from what Trump is proposing.
3
Then they'd have to tell you that the 2.5 million included a lot of people who were merely turned away at the border. They know this, but it's an inconvenient truth.
1
A thought: trump used the 'millions of mexican rapists' threat to whip up a following. Now that he has a devoted base and the presidency, I don't think he's going to start rounding up 2-3 million people, he knows what trouble that will bring down on him. Rather, I think he will regularly send out tweets and surrogates, highlighting the deportation of some really bad guys, with assurances that millions more are in their sights, with a view to keeping the issue fomenting among his base. He will enjoy watching democrats driven to distraction, and his base continuing to hate democrats for being more concerned about "illegals" than real Americans.
4
If he just continues the policies of Obama and, like you said, continue advertising that fact, they'll think what a great guy he is, totally ignoring that steady deportation has been going on under Obama and that the tide has actually turned with more returning of their own volition than the number coming here. But then those are facts, so...
1
Well, it took Hitler about four years to round up 6 million Jews. Maybe Trump thinks he can do better, so to speak.
It's all about enabling people's prejudices to keep their minds off their inability attain the American Dream, which has been sucked up by the 1% (of which Trump is a member). Keep blaming the non-White and non-Christian people, who surely must be the cause of our woes.
It's all about enabling people's prejudices to keep their minds off their inability attain the American Dream, which has been sucked up by the 1% (of which Trump is a member). Keep blaming the non-White and non-Christian people, who surely must be the cause of our woes.
8
1 in 3 Americans has a criminal record. I think it's safe to say 1/3 of illegals also has one. We don't know if they have records in their home country so it could be way more. There is also the fact that all illegals are trespassing and continually breaking the law including working under the table and driving uninsured.
8
Amazing enough Obama deported 2.5 million, that's an incredible number. But if you speak to a regular guy on the street he/she would probably be more inclined to believe that Obama allowed that many more into the country illegally. My point being (and proven), our country has too many uninformed voters. The best comment I ever read on NYT about this election and worth repeating:
PEOPLE LIKE SIMPLE LIES INSTEAD OF COMPLICATED TRUTHS.
Of course this does not apply to everyone, but just enough of the electorate to make Trump president.
PEOPLE LIKE SIMPLE LIES INSTEAD OF COMPLICATED TRUTHS.
Of course this does not apply to everyone, but just enough of the electorate to make Trump president.
7
Trump admitted Obama has deported millions of illegal aliens during the third debate with Hillary.
But the Obama haters never want to hear anything about what Obama, despite massive obstruction by the republicans, has ever accomplished. They were told he was the worst president ever and they parrot that back along with trump slogans.
But the Obama haters never want to hear anything about what Obama, despite massive obstruction by the republicans, has ever accomplished. They were told he was the worst president ever and they parrot that back along with trump slogans.
As an article in today's Times notes many foreign students are contemplating enrollments in Canada instead of the US. Under Mr. Trump's pledge to stem the tide of immigration the $32,000,000,000 those students infused into our economy will be going elsewhere. In all probability, many small private schools and colleges will face severe economic challenges... and the lost of 1,000 foreign students from the 13,000 at Indiana State might have an impact on tuitions there. I hope that Mr. Trump's business acumen comes into play here and he explains to the voters who swept him into office that there are a lot more "terrific" immigrants than he realized and he might not be building that wall or kicking so many immigrants out of our country... Because he knows that being open and inclusive is a good business move!
1
Mr Trump "imagines" there are that number of dangerous immigrants? No, he says there are. That's different. Imagines suggests a benign confusion. Tells lies is the truth. Trump cooks up whatever numbers fit his desires, or whatever numbers increase his following. And the Republican establishment is unethical enough to fail to set the record straight. Instead they ride that fake reality to execute policy jujitsu--quickly doing things they know are unpopular before the masses catch on (eliminate Medicare etc). In Trumps words, sad. Money it's more than sad. Tossing the old in our country off their healthcare to negotiate with the profit vipers, knowing the quality of their healthcare will evaporate as insurers and middlemen attempt to make a buck--that's pure evil.
4
The rule of law is dead in this country.
Those here illegally have broken our laws. They are changing our entire society by having citizen children.
We cannot excuse this because it makes our lives easier. It is not acceptable just because we profit off of cheap labor.
Everything about it is immoral and wrong. I refuse to get cheaper products off of the backs of illegal labor.
Those here illegally have broken our laws. They are changing our entire society by having citizen children.
We cannot excuse this because it makes our lives easier. It is not acceptable just because we profit off of cheap labor.
Everything about it is immoral and wrong. I refuse to get cheaper products off of the backs of illegal labor.
14
Then save the consumer and make it legal.
Stop buying American produce, then, today.
What amazes me is that journalists continue to respond to anything that Trump says as if it were based on fact or even a reasonably informed opinion. The president elect will present a real challenge to those who will cover the white house. They will have to get used to hearing one thing at a press conference, another thing from a cabinet member and still another thing on Trump's twitter feed.
This is the game he has played from day one. Keep them guessing, and keep me in the spotlight. Naricissits do this in some form all the time and Trump is a master at media manipulation.
Of course he simply made the numbers up. Any one who knows even a little about our immigration systems knew that. But he accomplished three things; his supporters think he's following through with his get tough rhetoric, the entire immigrant community documented and not is in a state of fear and confusion and the media is running behind this myth trying to see if it's true.
And Trump stands in the middle of this chaos lying about what he said, correcting the media about what they said and telling everyone to stay tuned for the next episode of the Donald Trump Show.
The press will have to decide if they have the backbone to do what they failed to do during the campaign, that is tell the public in no uncertain terms that the president simply lied and made things up to stir up fear and confusion.
This is the game he has played from day one. Keep them guessing, and keep me in the spotlight. Naricissits do this in some form all the time and Trump is a master at media manipulation.
Of course he simply made the numbers up. Any one who knows even a little about our immigration systems knew that. But he accomplished three things; his supporters think he's following through with his get tough rhetoric, the entire immigrant community documented and not is in a state of fear and confusion and the media is running behind this myth trying to see if it's true.
And Trump stands in the middle of this chaos lying about what he said, correcting the media about what they said and telling everyone to stay tuned for the next episode of the Donald Trump Show.
The press will have to decide if they have the backbone to do what they failed to do during the campaign, that is tell the public in no uncertain terms that the president simply lied and made things up to stir up fear and confusion.
6
"What amazes me is that journalists continue to respond to anything that Trump says as if it were based on fact or even a reasonably informed opinion. "
BECAUSE
The greatest enemy of the truth is not a lie - deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth - persistent, persuasive and unrealistic"
BECAUSE
The greatest enemy of the truth is not a lie - deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth - persistent, persuasive and unrealistic"
How do you think this can be solved? It is a very deep deep and severe problem to be sure.
The fascinating thing about this election is that finally we have learned something about how Washington actually works -- the huge number of tax laws benefitting real estate, the disgusting kowtowing of politicians to the rich, and the shocking power of the POYUS. How did that happen? So far as Trump's son in law in the White House ... there was a wife named Hillary who was supposed to create a healthcare policy!
Perhaps Trump will come to realize that the reason we keep Mexican drug lords in jail here -- and I hold my nose when their relatives are living here --is they do lots of damage to the US when they are home. Actually drug policy (illegal and legal) not yet discussed by Trump is a big problem.
Time for some real change starting with getting rid of the electoral college.
BTW there really are lots of under employed whites in Appalachia and elsewhere across classes..all those adjunct professors ho can't get it together to attract attention. Too bad the Dems didn't get to take over either House or Senate. Have to sit out two long years.
Perhaps Trump will come to realize that the reason we keep Mexican drug lords in jail here -- and I hold my nose when their relatives are living here --is they do lots of damage to the US when they are home. Actually drug policy (illegal and legal) not yet discussed by Trump is a big problem.
Time for some real change starting with getting rid of the electoral college.
BTW there really are lots of under employed whites in Appalachia and elsewhere across classes..all those adjunct professors ho can't get it together to attract attention. Too bad the Dems didn't get to take over either House or Senate. Have to sit out two long years.
3
Hey, great idea! Let's eliminate the electoral college so that NYC, LA, Philly, San Francisco, Seattle, Minneapolis and all the other heavily liberal bastions can unduly influence our politics and policies for the remaining 85% of the counties and regions. I can't wait for all of those more enlightened people to hold sway over the remaining population. No thanks.
It is good to state that immigrants will at least be safe in Los Angeles and New York City, but there is a vast red swath of Donald Trump's America where they will NOT be safe, and where they WILL be rounded up, placed on airplanes (and maybe trains), and shipped out without due process of the law. And, frankly, that's the only part of America he needs to appease to maintain his electoral college majority.
5
immigrants are not at any risk, illegal aliens are not immigrants and should be deported.
in a 315 million people country, you might expect some diversity among the NYT comments. After all, 40 years ago, before the media became consolidated and massively democrats, Democracy was about mitigating different views of the world. In "illegal immigrant", the word "illegal", even if inconvenient is there. For people who like facts, as you are all, this is a fact. Now, you can make it disappear, like when you write "undocumented immigrant". Illegal heroin smuggling should then be defended as " undocumented heroin importation". Right? Why not starting thinking about solutions, like giving a 10 years path to nationality, on probation, and a fine for breaking the law and funding the extra load on social security and medicare. Might be what some of the legal immigrant who voted Trumps could accept.
9
Given that Trump is a proven fabulist of epic proportion, why would you believe he ever intended to round up and deport 3, let alone 11, million people. Build a wall? Well maybe a little fencing. Lock her up? 46% tariffs on Chinese goods? None of these things will happen. It was, and continues to be, a massive con. The real question should be, to what end? Figure out what will meet Trump's massively needy personality and you will find your answers.
7
In the end Trump’s plan is to deport felons, to build fences here and there, asks Mexico to help police the border and then come up with a plan to legalize the remaining undocumented not too far from the next election.
Since most of the 10 M who will benefit from that amnesty are from Mexico and Central America, he will adjust the immigration quota to keep the white non-Hispanic population at its current level of 62 % of the total population for the next ten to fifteen years to assuage the fears of a good many of his supporters. This is the trade-off in the making.
Since most of the 10 M who will benefit from that amnesty are from Mexico and Central America, he will adjust the immigration quota to keep the white non-Hispanic population at its current level of 62 % of the total population for the next ten to fifteen years to assuage the fears of a good many of his supporters. This is the trade-off in the making.
1
I am white. I am a Jew, an Asian, a Muslim, a Sikh, gay, transgender, a woman, a black. I am an American.
When Trump opens the registry for Muslims, I will be the first in line. Nothing will choke the life out of the nascent round-up of our fellow citizens faster than having 100 million of us registering as Muslims.
If they come for one of us, they can come for any of us, for all of us.
When Trump opens the registry for Muslims, I will be the first in line. Nothing will choke the life out of the nascent round-up of our fellow citizens faster than having 100 million of us registering as Muslims.
If they come for one of us, they can come for any of us, for all of us.
496
What a brilliant idea!
1
Love this idea.
1
Good for you, nobody is making a registry of Muslims, but perhaps illegals and those visiting. When you come here on a visa you must leave on time or get and extension. If you don't you need to be removed and fined, and never be allowed back without a great reason.
1
about time. I was wondering when someone would do the math.l
More math:
how many special cops
how many transports & transit camps
how many homes invaded
how many families destroyed
how long it will take to fix the damage to the country
More math:
how many special cops
how many transports & transit camps
how many homes invaded
how many families destroyed
how long it will take to fix the damage to the country
3
Trump's immigration policy is beginning to sound a lot like Obama's. The concentration on removing criminal immigrants is Obama's current policy. If Trump stays with his current view, then only criminals would be removed, a radical departure from his message on the campaign trail. It looks like President Trump is going to be a lot different and far more moderate than Campaign Trump.
1
What's next? Sending all of us Blacks to Africa? Jewish people to Israel? This so roundup is just the first step. Once King Donald controls the Supreme Court, all bets are off.
His supporters wanted a king. Wait until he comes for them.
Sinclair Lewis wrote about a wealth industrialist who is elected president in "It Can't Happen Here."
His supporters wanted a king. Wait until he comes for them.
Sinclair Lewis wrote about a wealth industrialist who is elected president in "It Can't Happen Here."
2
you are purposely confusing the rights of Americans and those who immigrate here LEGALLY with illegal aliens. illegal aliens are not immigrants. deporting illegal aliens is a good thing for Americans and will open up opportunities for LEGAL immigrants.
3
Last week the NYTimes wrote an editorial apologizing for the way it biasedly reported on Trump and promising to change that. Where is that promised change?
5
If a person is here illegally they are a criminal.
All here illegally need to leave.
All here illegally need to leave.
9
WillT26, Does that include Melania who obviously lied on her citizenship application?
"Purging the Nation" sounds worse then confining people to ghettos or internment camps. It is more like Hitler's plan of racial purification or an older plan of a French pro-revolutionary priest in the days of the Terror to purge Alsace of anti-revolutionary elements: 1/3 of the population to resettle in the interior, 1/3 to expel, and 1/3 to the guillotine.
2
Note that "purging" is the Times's word, not Trump's. But your reaction is probably what they were hoping for.
Those who have come here without permission, without following our laws, must go home. If they want to join us here, they can stand in the line prescribed by our laws, just like everyone else. If they respect our laws, we will welcome them. If not, they have no place among us.
12
As one who is relegated to simple "observer" position, it is my Hope that theTrump who now will Sit in the Oval Office...is Not the Same Personality
that Campaigned.
that Campaigned.
1
You still don"t get it. The Democrats did not. When I went around trying to get out the vote, the main issue that came up was illegal immigration. Republicans, DEMOCRATS, Independents wanted this issue addressed. There are a great deal of them surrounding us. And, no it's not in the fields. Yes, there are some. But, a large number have jobs with the cable companies and construction companies. Decent paying jobs that big companies like Windstream were hiring. But, they're hiring illegal immigrants. The Democrats totally misjudged this. The majority of these folks are not racists. They are unemployed or with low-paying jobs. "It's the economy, stupid". A lot of them didn't care about social issues. Their one focus was and is on employment. And, they saw nothing from the Democrats but open the borders. The anger was unnerving. Not, rude, not aggressive, just angry. They felt abandoned and initially thought Sanders might help them. But, when Trump burst out of the gates, boom. He was either their guy, or those that couldn't take him, stayed home. "It's the economy stupid". The NYT has been one of the biggest advocates for those that crossed the border illegally and you still don't get it. I voted for Clinton. But, a lot of Democrats around here did not. They don't believe in them anymore. Oh, just a note: a good number of them are African-American males. They were the ones that stayed home. They said the Democrats cared more about illegal immigrants. "It's the economy, stupid."
12
Lets hope President Trump manages to give back America to Americans. Enough political correctness fascism.
7
how does Trump identify the felons he wishes to deport? They are not readily identifiable, I imagine they look like everyone else, Do they have to commit felonies in the States or in Mexico? Maybe their neighbors are supposed to denounce them, It sounds like a nightmare!
4
The Times (the country physician) continues to treat the patient (Donald Trump) as though he is of normal mind and just has a cold, when what's needed is a big city psychiatrist to determine how his narcissism disorder will impact his ability to lead our country.
3
We don't need to drill in demagogy or to be fake humanists .
There is an issue with illegal immigrants and it must be fixed .
We have rules , laws and morality .
I'm convinced they will prevail and apply to each situation .
I cannot guess that like past era wagons will be used to deport people undocumented.
America is not Germany and trump is not Hitler .
Democracy is our DNA and nobody can destroy it .
There is an issue with illegal immigrants and it must be fixed .
We have rules , laws and morality .
I'm convinced they will prevail and apply to each situation .
I cannot guess that like past era wagons will be used to deport people undocumented.
America is not Germany and trump is not Hitler .
Democracy is our DNA and nobody can destroy it .
3
Just remember everybody: Trump is a pathological liar. You can't trust anything he says about anything - he's demonstrated this on every issue he's talked about.
6
The western democracies do not know how to handle the modern challenges from immigration - whether from collapsing economies, criminal terrorism, or religious madness. We need the labor force. We profit from diversity. Trump's solution (to a problem that doesn't really exist) sounds easy and obvious, but it is naive and stupid. Europe's impending immigration catastrophe (if it isn't already there) is being handled nation by nation rather than as a coordinated union and the EU's unity is being threatened. I wonder, in the case of the EU and immigrants from the Middle East and North Africa whether Putin's support for Assad (keeping the killing and mayhem alive in Syria and Iraq) is a win-win for him. He maintains a foothold in the Middle East (and access to water ways) but he is also using the flood of immigrants into the EU as a destabilizing force (his immigrant, proxy army). Putin would like nothing more than to turn back the EU's encroachment to the east - and Trump's proclamations support that. In the US, the zealotry of the alt-Right is using the immigration issue (and again an immigrant, proxy army - largely imaginary in this case) to undermine our federal government. The nihilists are now in charge.
2
"We need the labor force."
We already have more than enough uneducated, illiterate, non-English speaking illegal aliens and do not need any more. Increasingly less expensive and more efficient automation will drastically reduce the need for no-skill / low-skill workers. Limiting or even reducing the number of illegal aliens will open up more jobs for American citizens, including all of the convicts the "progressives" want to release from prison early.
We already have more than enough uneducated, illiterate, non-English speaking illegal aliens and do not need any more. Increasingly less expensive and more efficient automation will drastically reduce the need for no-skill / low-skill workers. Limiting or even reducing the number of illegal aliens will open up more jobs for American citizens, including all of the convicts the "progressives" want to release from prison early.
...cherished American ideals are under siege." This statement explains why Ms Clinton lost the election. Americans believe in the rule of law. These future deportees have broken the law by being in this country undocumented. Thus, they are illegal immigrants. They chose to "cut in line," or bypass it all together because they believe the people who actually apply for U.S. citizenship and follow the rules are suckers. Very few people do not want any kind of immigration as they know that legal immigration is a plus for the U.S. How am I supposed to explain to my grandchildren that they should only follow those laws which they agree with. It is hard enough explaining to them about the sore losers that are protesting a legal, valid election. Or why all this previous year that when he walked in while his PaPa was watching CNN (or numerous other news) that he needed to feel ashamed because he was born white. He never even inquired about race before this election since he plays with all children in his class. His best. Friend is African American and until a teacher brought it up, they never thought that the color of their skin was supposed to make a difference. He already had been mocked and bullied by other classmates, as well as his teacher, when he said his family supported Mr Trump for president.
The bottom line is that legal immigration is great, but, illegal immigration is a drain on this country. Deport all illegals and allow them to apply for citizenship.
The bottom line is that legal immigration is great, but, illegal immigration is a drain on this country. Deport all illegals and allow them to apply for citizenship.
11
If they actually do it. There is no reason to believe anything the man ever said.
7
There are so many reasons not to believe anything the man has ever said.
In order to distract from its failure to pay attention to the warnings of the Clinton administration about a possible attack on American soil, the Bush administration decided to declare a "war on terror" and both terrorize Americans and tell them to be terrified. Add to that, they insist climate chamge is a "hoax." It has been a way for the Republican Party to gain votes in the guise of "protecting" us.
Now Democrats must protect us by trumpeting climate science and the traitorous nature of the GOP.
Now Democrats must protect us by trumpeting climate science and the traitorous nature of the GOP.
9
As a lifelong Democrat, I can only hope The Democrats will revive from their zombie state.
2
There are only about 10,000 Monday-morning-quarterbacking-type articles on the web correctly noting that for people who can't afford to pay for housing, health care, etc., climate science is kind of a low priority. Google is your friend. But keep supporting the Democrat party's continuing slide into irrelevancy if you must.
1
Like most every other promise Trump has made, this too will go unfulfilled. I, for one, am so looking forward to watching the reactions of those who voted for him and his Republican acquaintances as he shreds up his own "Contract with the American Voter". Trump's own promises to America for his first 100-days in the White House, the beginning stages of his ultimate administration goals, includes how he'll begin his term and handle immigration, illegal immigrants, and a lot of other things. We'll all remember that Trump-voters quite enthusiastically signed this contract, either with pen or at the voting booth. Just like his own supporters over-simplified view of the mechanics of business and politics, so to is Trump's "Contract". Of all the "Contract with the American Voter" promises, deportation of illegal immigrants will be the first glaring broken-promise. That's one presidential promise that I look forward to him breaking.
8
Two things:
Sanctuary cities should be re-termed normal cities. And cities that volunteer to collaborate with the federal government should be called collaborator cities. Local authorities simply have no Constitutional mandate to enforce immigration law, and they don't have to offer to devote their already limited resources to helping the federal government do that. It's no different than when local agencies resisted enforcing federal gun laws under the Clintons. As I recall, they won their argument.
Two - federal immigration authorities are already working at full speed to process, try, and remove unlawful entrants and undocumented immigrants. Trump's proposals to create a force to expedite that sound a lot like a Gestapo force. Being present without proper documents in the USA is not a crime, it is an administrative violation. And those caught in violation are processed and tried in accordance with due process of law. Kicking in doors without warrants, rounding up people without evidence, violating personal privacy without cause, and removing people without a fair trial isn't something we should be be applauding. The law is already pretty anti-immigrant. In immigration courts people don't even have the right to an attorney if they can't afford one. And the standard rules of evidence don't apply, so hearsay is admissible against them. We should be ensuring that everybody's inalienable rights are respected, even as we deport them, not toying with due process.
Sanctuary cities should be re-termed normal cities. And cities that volunteer to collaborate with the federal government should be called collaborator cities. Local authorities simply have no Constitutional mandate to enforce immigration law, and they don't have to offer to devote their already limited resources to helping the federal government do that. It's no different than when local agencies resisted enforcing federal gun laws under the Clintons. As I recall, they won their argument.
Two - federal immigration authorities are already working at full speed to process, try, and remove unlawful entrants and undocumented immigrants. Trump's proposals to create a force to expedite that sound a lot like a Gestapo force. Being present without proper documents in the USA is not a crime, it is an administrative violation. And those caught in violation are processed and tried in accordance with due process of law. Kicking in doors without warrants, rounding up people without evidence, violating personal privacy without cause, and removing people without a fair trial isn't something we should be be applauding. The law is already pretty anti-immigrant. In immigration courts people don't even have the right to an attorney if they can't afford one. And the standard rules of evidence don't apply, so hearsay is admissible against them. We should be ensuring that everybody's inalienable rights are respected, even as we deport them, not toying with due process.
10
How is that unchecked immigration working out for Germany, France and a few of those other countries over in your neck of the woods? Here's a great idea....Let's enforce the laws in place. Nobody has a "right" to freely enter any country without doing it legally.
Large local police departments have already pledged not to assist in this roundup. Its not their job in the first place. That's the job of the INS. I don't think they have the manpower to identify and deport 3 million illegals anytime soon. Just more bluster that will be backpedaled or soon forgotten, like the promise to persecute HRC
7
It will be interesting to see what happens if federal funds are cut off to so-called "sanctuary" cities. Which is what I and a lot of other people outside the echo chamber are hoping for.
1
Persecute Hillary is what The Rump and his Republican cabal did. Prosecute they cannot do since she did not commit any crime!
1
So, illegal aliens are the workers who keep the economy humming? That's interesting. Every time I've been in the process of starting a new job, I've had to bring in my US passport or three forms of ID to prove I am authorized to work in the US, and it couldn't be more obvious that I'm a born-here citizen.
So how does that work, illegals aliens taking regular economy-humming workplace jobs? Stolen social security numbers? Forged documents? And this is OK??? Explain that to me, NYT Editorial Board.
So how does that work, illegals aliens taking regular economy-humming workplace jobs? Stolen social security numbers? Forged documents? And this is OK??? Explain that to me, NYT Editorial Board.
81
Simple. Employers have turned a blind eye for decades to hire illegals. Question for you "Trilby": Please describe want it is about you that makes it "obvious" that you're "a born here citizen"? Do you understand that California, Texas, Nevada, Colorado, New Mexico, parts of Oklahoma and Arkansas......ALL were part of The United States of Mexico at one time? Question 2: Where is your real name, and photo?
2
I'll explain it to you, though I'm not a "born here" but a "born again" American. (Can a Muslim be a "born again American? I don't know . . . )
Many of the people you despise work in jobs you wouldn't do. And here's the hitch, my friend: those jobs don't require 3 forms of ID or an SS number. All they require is desperation to feed one's family, which most "born here" Americans don't understand.
Many of the people you despise work in jobs you wouldn't do. And here's the hitch, my friend: those jobs don't require 3 forms of ID or an SS number. All they require is desperation to feed one's family, which most "born here" Americans don't understand.
2
What field of employment requires a US passport or "three forms of ID"? What employers have demanded that from you? What jobs aren't "workplace"?
Illegals can "take jobs" because employers willingly hire them. They know they can pay them less, provide them zero benefits (like access to toilets or time off), threaten or abuse them, force them to work 12 hrs,/day, pay them no overtime, pay them no fair wages, and pay no payroll tax. It's a financial windfall for the employer.
In the case of immigrants working in wealthy homes around Central Park in your neck of the woods, the employer holds onto, say, the nanny's green card and threatens to have it revoked (or not to return it) if the nanny doesn't do "x" or "y."
One can only have a job, "workplace" or otherwise, if one has an employer. Does that explanation help, Trilby?
Illegals can "take jobs" because employers willingly hire them. They know they can pay them less, provide them zero benefits (like access to toilets or time off), threaten or abuse them, force them to work 12 hrs,/day, pay them no overtime, pay them no fair wages, and pay no payroll tax. It's a financial windfall for the employer.
In the case of immigrants working in wealthy homes around Central Park in your neck of the woods, the employer holds onto, say, the nanny's green card and threatens to have it revoked (or not to return it) if the nanny doesn't do "x" or "y."
One can only have a job, "workplace" or otherwise, if one has an employer. Does that explanation help, Trilby?
4
The statue of liberty that welcomed the immigrants to the land of opportunity for years would be in tears seeing millions of them being forced to leave America- fast turning into a cage, thanks to Trump.
9
One hundred + years ago the US needed immigrants and had room and jobs for them. Today there are not enough jobs for American citizens let alone illegal aliens.
2
Profl Sharma,
I don't see how you can live in India and criticize the United States for not being generous enough in welcoming anyone who wants to enter our country. This is an issue for Americans to decide.
I don't see how you can live in India and criticize the United States for not being generous enough in welcoming anyone who wants to enter our country. This is an issue for Americans to decide.
4
Except the Statue of Liberty has never seen these 11 million illegal immigrants.
2
Look on the bright side: Sure the country will look like some vast Gulag state. But think of all the extra private detention camps that will be built and will need to be staffed. Maybe by those whose jobs have been displaced by technology and the global economy. The prisons can be built in rural America.
Of course, we might miss the abundance of cheap agricultural products. And home prices will go up. And you might not find adequate staffing for restaurants, that is, until restaurants can convince Americans to work for the same prices that Trump pays his temporary foreign help ( that is, if he pays them).
Of course, we might miss the abundance of cheap agricultural products. And home prices will go up. And you might not find adequate staffing for restaurants, that is, until restaurants can convince Americans to work for the same prices that Trump pays his temporary foreign help ( that is, if he pays them).
13
There is no question about it. The issue of unlawful entry into the country is an issue that divides us.
The extreme points of view are frequently cited by opposing sides.
For liberals, even the term "illegal alien" is offensive. For them, the reactionary comment is that if we deported all illegals, we would (of course) be ripping children out of the arms of their parents. Okay. That is a bad picture and wouldn't be good politics for anyone. Point taken.
For conservatives, anyone who didn't follow existing law to enter the country deserves what they get for violating the law. Even if crossing the border without showing a passport is the equivalent to a speeding ticket, we have to acknowledge that a law has been broken and enforce it accordingly. When pushed on it, conservatives have to admit that they are most concerned about people who dangerous to society. Suddenly, the conversation is not about little kids in the 11M, but rather the 178K criminals that were deported last year, the 121 immigrant status convicted murderers, 74K immigrant convicts of lesser crimes, and 1M ICE detainees (source: CNN http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/08/politics/immigrants-crime/ Again. Point taken.
Something tells me that despite the rhetoric, Trump will build a shorter wall than promised & will only end up deporting somewhere between 175-200K criminal immigrants per year, while also declaring that he is making good on his promise.
Message: the more things change, the more they stay the same.
The extreme points of view are frequently cited by opposing sides.
For liberals, even the term "illegal alien" is offensive. For them, the reactionary comment is that if we deported all illegals, we would (of course) be ripping children out of the arms of their parents. Okay. That is a bad picture and wouldn't be good politics for anyone. Point taken.
For conservatives, anyone who didn't follow existing law to enter the country deserves what they get for violating the law. Even if crossing the border without showing a passport is the equivalent to a speeding ticket, we have to acknowledge that a law has been broken and enforce it accordingly. When pushed on it, conservatives have to admit that they are most concerned about people who dangerous to society. Suddenly, the conversation is not about little kids in the 11M, but rather the 178K criminals that were deported last year, the 121 immigrant status convicted murderers, 74K immigrant convicts of lesser crimes, and 1M ICE detainees (source: CNN http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/08/politics/immigrants-crime/ Again. Point taken.
Something tells me that despite the rhetoric, Trump will build a shorter wall than promised & will only end up deporting somewhere between 175-200K criminal immigrants per year, while also declaring that he is making good on his promise.
Message: the more things change, the more they stay the same.
46
That's because "illegal" doesn't appear in their Newspeak dictionaries.
1
So 175-200K per year--about the same rate as achieved by the Obama administration. So much for Trump's ridiculous statements about the threat posed by illegal immigration and his absurd promises to get tough.
But is should not divide us, the consistent application of the rule of law is the largest thing that makes our country special. When you allow it to degrade by either allowing non-citizens to stay or Hillary to break the law without process it makes everyone think they are being taken advantage of by the system.
1
The problem isn't really that hard. It can be done in a series of steps. First build a wall and control entry, and simultaneously deport the bad hombres. Next, immigration reform that says only people who follow the path from the start can become citizens. If you are here illegally, you are a perpetual second class person. Do not allow welfare benefits to pass to illegals. Tax remittances at a rate that curtails them. Lastly, if you leave and don't have legal authority, you can't come back. Viola, couple hundred thousand deported, illegal ranks reduced by a lot more than that.
24
Nobody ever mentions the elephant in the room; jobs. People come here for jobs and there are employers whose entire business model relies on employing underpaid immigrants who cannot complain about working conditions or substandard pay for fear of being ejected from the country. Force employers to hire legal residents and you take away the incentive for people to come here illegally.
Sure, but who's this Viola you're talking to?
Can we start with Melania who worked here illegally when she first came to the US?
Once again I stand with the Editorial Board in its opinion. One reason is that there are really two discouraging aspects of Trump's presumed position on immigration (presumed, because his is a campaign rhetoric aimed at stirring the irrational heartland).
Not only is Trump's immigration policy disruptive of a complex relationship that we've had with immigrants for some time, Trump's stance also is one of bitterness and discrimination; it denigrates the very Christian ideals on which this nation is based. How the heartland claims faith in Jesus Christ, yet elects an angry, mean demagogue, is up to them to explain to us.
The United States needs leaders who bring out the best in its citizens. The problem with demagoguery is that it stirs the masses for the personal gain of a few seamy politicians by turning elements of the population against each other.
The heartland accuses its detractors of being "elitist". The fact of the matter is that when I behaved badly as a child, my Republican parents and my teachers, some of whom were Republican, would admonish me, "You can do better than that."
The heartland can to better than vilify imagined enemies. Trump is now a major world leader. He can do better than to stir simplistic fear, uncertainty and doubt in his followers.
Not only is Trump's immigration policy disruptive of a complex relationship that we've had with immigrants for some time, Trump's stance also is one of bitterness and discrimination; it denigrates the very Christian ideals on which this nation is based. How the heartland claims faith in Jesus Christ, yet elects an angry, mean demagogue, is up to them to explain to us.
The United States needs leaders who bring out the best in its citizens. The problem with demagoguery is that it stirs the masses for the personal gain of a few seamy politicians by turning elements of the population against each other.
The heartland accuses its detractors of being "elitist". The fact of the matter is that when I behaved badly as a child, my Republican parents and my teachers, some of whom were Republican, would admonish me, "You can do better than that."
The heartland can to better than vilify imagined enemies. Trump is now a major world leader. He can do better than to stir simplistic fear, uncertainty and doubt in his followers.
12
If you think the term "illegal alien" is offensive and smacks of xenophobia, be careful not to use "irrational heartland" either. That smacks of deliberately divisive elitism on your part.
9
No it doesn't, Ed. You failed to read my post. If you perform poorly and irrationally, you are not helpful to the goals of the US. I will not succumb to your complaint. Minimally, Trump made the same kinds of comments, so you have no complaint in that regard.
More substantially, the vitriol and anger from Trump supporters is unacceptable. I will not accept their irrationality In order to avoid being nonsensically accused of "elitism". It sounds like language the Soviet Union would have employed.
Read my post. It is also the segment of the population that spews irrational anger, whom Trump courts, that is divisive. Right, you've failed to develop a good argument here. You can do better than that, Ed.
More substantially, the vitriol and anger from Trump supporters is unacceptable. I will not accept their irrationality In order to avoid being nonsensically accused of "elitism". It sounds like language the Soviet Union would have employed.
Read my post. It is also the segment of the population that spews irrational anger, whom Trump courts, that is divisive. Right, you've failed to develop a good argument here. You can do better than that, Ed.
Is there a voice of reason, somewhere in Trump's group of power brokers? Make good appointments and that is who can guide you in being a solid President. I had hoped Trump's ego was engaged enough to want to be judged as an adequate President. If his advisors are a cabal, Trump will hear exaggerations at the least and twisting versions of hate speech. We've survived mismanagement before but this group of men, white anglo-saxon men? Rhetoric is not the problem. Can Jarod Kushner help? Bring him on.
1
Sanctuary cities should never have been developed to begin with. The U.S. should not have to absorb criminal, drug cartels, and dangerous others who pose a threat for people in this nation. Period.
32
I might add that we fought a very destructive war 150 years ago that put to rest the ideas of states rights and nullification. The Federal Government has the power and authority to dictate and enforce Federal policy and Federal law anywhere and everywhere in the country. Equal opportunity employment, the speed limit and the drinking age are ready examples of this.
The irony is that people who celebrate Lincoln's stance also tend to favor sanctuary cities, and the people who think Lincoln was flat wrong tend to insist that sanctuary cities should have no standing.
The irony is that people who celebrate Lincoln's stance also tend to favor sanctuary cities, and the people who think Lincoln was flat wrong tend to insist that sanctuary cities should have no standing.
3
Wow! Thin (if you can) about how the Mafia flourished here, a born-in-Italy social disaster. Should all the Italians who came here have been deported, put in camps, spit upon? The Irish were at ties bootleggers, including Kennedy-Father What have You done to Make America Great. My neighbors are a total mix of colors and ethnicities, some with hijabs. we hug and shake hands and show photos and eat pizza. WHAT do you do?
Did you read the article? Just wondering.
There is only one group of Americans that should have a pass of "showing their papers": the Native Americans. To understand how vile the stratification and segmentation of our population would be, watch what happens if all non-native Americans needed to "show their papers".
Our words betray us. They demonstrate how one group seeks and sustains dominance over another. Think about MISCEGENATION (the mixing of races) and its similarity to MISTAKE. Think about MISOGYNY (hatred of women) in common use and the paucity of use of the antonym MISANDRY (hatred of men). Think about the birth of words like OCTOROON (a person who is 1/8th black) in years past. Instead of learning to live in harmony, we spend our energies seeking ways to divide ourselves up with the top of the pile, not surprisingly, highlighting us.
Our words betray us. They demonstrate how one group seeks and sustains dominance over another. Think about MISCEGENATION (the mixing of races) and its similarity to MISTAKE. Think about MISOGYNY (hatred of women) in common use and the paucity of use of the antonym MISANDRY (hatred of men). Think about the birth of words like OCTOROON (a person who is 1/8th black) in years past. Instead of learning to live in harmony, we spend our energies seeking ways to divide ourselves up with the top of the pile, not surprisingly, highlighting us.
19
It's amazing what you can do when you eliminate pesky stuff like due process.
24
He sure backtracked on ALL illegal immigrants.
Welcome to your lying president, Trump supporters.
Welcome to your lying president, Trump supporters.
18
President Obama has already deported more than 2.5 million illegal aliens. He is known as the deporter in chief - Obama has deported more people than any other president. BTW Obama has also built 700 miles of wall between the USA and Mexico.
18
@Michael S. But it doesn't count because he doesn't brag about it and he is not a Republican. Democrats never do anything right!
Michael. By obamas own admission the deportation is false because it includes the deplorable "catch snd release."
Why should the US have any criminal illegal aliens?
37
Don't you know? They keep our economy humming. LOL
1
Nobody is saying we should. The problem is that they aren't easy to round up and deport ... but clearly they are the first priority .,... right?
because the process is complex and could take longer than someone who is at a point of desperation may have. let's be clear, these are people who send money to their families in other countries. they aren't online buying Ivanka's $10K gold bracelet.
Trump's plan to purge the nation.....what a nightmare...
so...Editors what is YOUR plan to save the nation ....from Trump....perhaps
you might find out his financial ties to the Russian financiers who hold his
mortgages or what else...just...prove that Trump is a Traitor and save
the nation...from this traitor.
so...Editors what is YOUR plan to save the nation ....from Trump....perhaps
you might find out his financial ties to the Russian financiers who hold his
mortgages or what else...just...prove that Trump is a Traitor and save
the nation...from this traitor.
13
Yawn.
Maybe we could pin Jimmy Hoffa's disappearance on him, too.
Maybe we could pin Jimmy Hoffa's disappearance on him, too.
2
Fair and Balanced NYT? Where was this outrage when Obama did it?
Selective compassion if the DEM is involved.
Selective compassion if the DEM is involved.
17
Perhaps it is because Trump emphasized it so much during his campaign. He did a great job of segregating certain groups in order to appeal to his supporters. I don't think, in general, there is a position against deporting criminals that are not here legally.
Watch what Trump will do the next four years. You denigrating Obama presidency is not true. He did a lot of things for minority.
TRUMP: But why CAN'T we make them wear armbands?
JARED: Trust me, it's a bad idea. How about those kind of injecto-markers? My cat has one.
JARED: Trust me, it's a bad idea. How about those kind of injecto-markers? My cat has one.
11
I find it fascinating that the kid whose grandparents or more probably great grand parents endured the same kind of venom would help steer Trump into this position. My hope is that Jared might be able to instill a modicum of empathy in his father-in-law's impenetrable heart and head.
News flash. If you are here illegally, you ARE at criminal.
33
Trump simply wants to send the future Democrats...uh...er...dangerous illegal immigrants back home.
12
The NYT needs to print, in BIG BOLD SUPERSCRIPT over stories like this one and the one about Ford's Kentucky operations: TRUMP LIES. When reporting the lies he spews, the fact of the LIE should be as prominent as the lie itself.
26
Making them so much easier to ignore. I read only the comments, and those for amusement. Lots of it here today.
1
Mr. Trump has a mandate to deport all the illegal aliens. This was his platform. The leftists attacked him on that. America voted. He won. Enforce the law. The democrats want them to stay in this country because they represent the permanent underclass that will always vote democrat because of the free stuff i.e. welfare the democrats love to provide. Remember Ms. Obama phone? Google her. The government teet is dry. The days of coming to this country and going on welfare are over. We need an anchor baby law also so the babies of illegal aliens are not rewarded with citizenship. Eliminate the incentive and they will not come. It is Pavlov's dog if you will.
Sure it will be sad, perhaps painful for those families forced to leave. But this is on them. I teach my 4 year old bad choices have consequences. When a murderer goes to prison and orphans a child the collateral damage does not preclude imprisonment. Same here. Eventually the word will get back. America tough country. Stay home. Mission accomplished.
Sure it will be sad, perhaps painful for those families forced to leave. But this is on them. I teach my 4 year old bad choices have consequences. When a murderer goes to prison and orphans a child the collateral damage does not preclude imprisonment. Same here. Eventually the word will get back. America tough country. Stay home. Mission accomplished.
21
I hardly think he has a mandate. Secretary Clinton has million more popular votes.
Illegal immigrants can't vote. Legal immigrants with green cards can't vote.
What you say is just silly:"they represent the permanent underclass that will always vote democrat because of the free stuff"
What you say is just silly:"they represent the permanent underclass that will always vote democrat because of the free stuff"
It's very difficult for illegal aliens to vote for anyone.
The Truth is....that Donald J. Trump is a liar....and I think that the Fourth Estate
is trying to make him out to be...what he has not been....will not and is incapable
of being....an honest man...
That simple Editors....and the sooner we deal with this TRUTH....the healthier
and saner we will be....Do NOT deal with a liar...and do not emulate or believe
that you can makeover what is not conceivable to change...
So....where to next...find out about Trump's connections to Vladimir Putin.
and then make the case that the USA electorate has a potential traitor to
be our next President.
Just get someone like Friedman to do it....because the OP ED is looking like
they are playing tiddlywinks in the NYT Parlor...
Most likely Lt Gen. ret Flynn is same construct as Trump...and then flush
out the rest of the bunch of...really deplorables...so we can get our country
back on track...do it !!!!
is trying to make him out to be...what he has not been....will not and is incapable
of being....an honest man...
That simple Editors....and the sooner we deal with this TRUTH....the healthier
and saner we will be....Do NOT deal with a liar...and do not emulate or believe
that you can makeover what is not conceivable to change...
So....where to next...find out about Trump's connections to Vladimir Putin.
and then make the case that the USA electorate has a potential traitor to
be our next President.
Just get someone like Friedman to do it....because the OP ED is looking like
they are playing tiddlywinks in the NYT Parlor...
Most likely Lt Gen. ret Flynn is same construct as Trump...and then flush
out the rest of the bunch of...really deplorables...so we can get our country
back on track...do it !!!!
6
If these people broke a US immigration law, then send them back out to where they originated, the same as any other nation does when enforcing their immigration laws. If a person is here legally and abiding by our law, then leave them in peace. Is this concept difficult to understand? The NYT editorials act as if this is a novel concept done only by the US. As a person who has dealt with immigration issues for almost 20 years globally, very few places allow open uncontrolled borders.
How is this a destructive plan? Destructive to those who break our laws? Splitting up families where one or two members are obeying the law, and another member is disobeying it? There is no split family if all choose to leave, or if the family member here illegally leaves, and then applies to come back later in a legal manner a few years down the road.
I personally like the concept that when people knowingly break our laws, that there is a consequence to those actions. Which laws do the NYT editorial board think should be cherry picked for ignoring and which ones should be obeyed? Can a list be produced?
How is this a destructive plan? Destructive to those who break our laws? Splitting up families where one or two members are obeying the law, and another member is disobeying it? There is no split family if all choose to leave, or if the family member here illegally leaves, and then applies to come back later in a legal manner a few years down the road.
I personally like the concept that when people knowingly break our laws, that there is a consequence to those actions. Which laws do the NYT editorial board think should be cherry picked for ignoring and which ones should be obeyed? Can a list be produced?
60
So, you have 20 years of experience in global immigration, yet you live in Jacksonville, FL? Have to wonder what that experience is.
@Bart
So can we go after the law breakers who employ illegals too? Would that be cherry picking?
So can we go after the law breakers who employ illegals too? Would that be cherry picking?
So he’ll identify the ones who ARE criminals (beyond being illegal aliens, which to some doesn’t make them criminals) and deport THEM, while (hopefully) modifying this desperate policy of “catch-and-release” (into our general population); and he’ll build his wall, which in some places may be a “fence”. He’ll do what he has to do to render this serious general problem more of an irritant, and move on to other issues that challenge us. And it appears that he will have the support of Congress in carrying out these intended actions.
The editors argue as if a decision still faced us, another imminent Election Day that might give us a president whose agenda is more supportive of their open-borders values than the one we actually DID elect. I’m afraid that’s not the case. For the next four years starting at Noon on 20 Jan., Donald Trump will be our president and he’s going to do what he’s going to do. He’ll have a lot of support, in Congress and around America.
Some of your argument amounts to the elicitation of insurrection of cities and towns against the federal government and a duly elected president exercising lawful authority. Think seriously on what that implies.
The editors argue as if a decision still faced us, another imminent Election Day that might give us a president whose agenda is more supportive of their open-borders values than the one we actually DID elect. I’m afraid that’s not the case. For the next four years starting at Noon on 20 Jan., Donald Trump will be our president and he’s going to do what he’s going to do. He’ll have a lot of support, in Congress and around America.
Some of your argument amounts to the elicitation of insurrection of cities and towns against the federal government and a duly elected president exercising lawful authority. Think seriously on what that implies.
15
Richard,
We are thinking about due process Richard and the cost of it, that's all. Are you not a Conservative concerned about the cost of government? We are also thinking about localized costs and quite frankly, if it's so important to deport all of these people then I guess we will have to raise taxes to pay for it. Or maybe, we should just imprison all of those businessmen who employ illegal immigrants for what term say you? You know, all of those Republicans who hire these people. Won't that be great because then you can hire all of those wonderful White people clamoring for the dish cleaning duties at your local diner. Or clamoring to cut our grass. Maybe, we should just be honest and say that their would be no illegal immigration if the magic wand of employment by Republican owned businesses didn't happen. So really, lets not raise taxes, not use our precious resources to deport them when we can just say to anyone convicted of hiring illegal immigrants shall serve no less than 20 years in prison. My guess is those guys will just say "You're Fired". Golly gee, I think I heard someone say that exact phrase but I can't exactly say who right now. In fact, why not arrest those who are guilty of past employment, or relatively recent employment of illegal immigrants. You don't think they should get clean away with their crimes do ya? No statute of limitations I say on criminals hiring illegal immigrants in America? Maybe we can "Lock them Up!", yep, sounds like a plan. Agree?
We are thinking about due process Richard and the cost of it, that's all. Are you not a Conservative concerned about the cost of government? We are also thinking about localized costs and quite frankly, if it's so important to deport all of these people then I guess we will have to raise taxes to pay for it. Or maybe, we should just imprison all of those businessmen who employ illegal immigrants for what term say you? You know, all of those Republicans who hire these people. Won't that be great because then you can hire all of those wonderful White people clamoring for the dish cleaning duties at your local diner. Or clamoring to cut our grass. Maybe, we should just be honest and say that their would be no illegal immigration if the magic wand of employment by Republican owned businesses didn't happen. So really, lets not raise taxes, not use our precious resources to deport them when we can just say to anyone convicted of hiring illegal immigrants shall serve no less than 20 years in prison. My guess is those guys will just say "You're Fired". Golly gee, I think I heard someone say that exact phrase but I can't exactly say who right now. In fact, why not arrest those who are guilty of past employment, or relatively recent employment of illegal immigrants. You don't think they should get clean away with their crimes do ya? No statute of limitations I say on criminals hiring illegal immigrants in America? Maybe we can "Lock them Up!", yep, sounds like a plan. Agree?
Operation Wetback was an immigration law enforcement initiative implemented in May 1954 by U.S. Attorney General Herbert Brownell and utilized special tactics to deal with illegal border crossings into the United States by Mexican nationals.
Operation Wetback gave rise to arrests and deportations by the U.S. Border Patrol that were civil rights violations, which resulted in several hundred United States citizens being illegally deported without being given a chance to prove their citizenship.
Let's give a big round of Trumpian applause for Donald taking America back to the Operation Wetback future.
I hope everyone is prepared to pick their own vegetables and produce under the hot sun, wash their own restaurant dishes, clean the nation's office buildings and hotels, and cut your own grass, because you're about to deport the workers that do the daily hard work that white Americans have systematically refused to do for the last 30 or 40 years at any price.
Welcome to Donald Trump's Operation Labor Supply Collapse.
Operation Wetback gave rise to arrests and deportations by the U.S. Border Patrol that were civil rights violations, which resulted in several hundred United States citizens being illegally deported without being given a chance to prove their citizenship.
Let's give a big round of Trumpian applause for Donald taking America back to the Operation Wetback future.
I hope everyone is prepared to pick their own vegetables and produce under the hot sun, wash their own restaurant dishes, clean the nation's office buildings and hotels, and cut your own grass, because you're about to deport the workers that do the daily hard work that white Americans have systematically refused to do for the last 30 or 40 years at any price.
Welcome to Donald Trump's Operation Labor Supply Collapse.
128
I agree that deportation round-ups are frightening in that they will undoubtedly violate the due process rights and civil liberties of American citizens.
But I can't agree with your assumption that the hiring of illegal aliens is good for America. A path to citizenship: fine. Endorsing illegal workers as a way to get vegetables picked or keep prices low: a cop out and disrespectful to the many who have immigrated legally.
But I can't agree with your assumption that the hiring of illegal aliens is good for America. A path to citizenship: fine. Endorsing illegal workers as a way to get vegetables picked or keep prices low: a cop out and disrespectful to the many who have immigrated legally.
4
So you want to scrap our immigration system, or any attempt to enforce it, so that you can have as many brown people as you want do the "daily hard work" as you call it? Your position seems pretty bigoted to me.
2
Maybe teenagers can get a job again in New Jersey.
2
First they came for the undocumented...we all know how that ends...
427
First they said immigration law is illegitimate...we all know how that ends...
16
First they came for the working class men... we all know how that ends.
1
Apparently, at least half the populace does NOT know the ending of the paraphrased quotation:
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Martin Niemöller
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Martin Niemöller
1
I was walking home last night when two drivers got into an argument; they were both driving construction vans. the white driver said, "are you talking to MEEEE?" You **** immigrant!"
My neighborhood is one of the most diverse neighborhoods in all of New York: Pakistani, Bengali, Uzbek, Hasidim, muslim, whites, latinos, blacks, Asians.
It breaks my heart knowing Trump is infiltrating -- perhaps authorizing -- or normalizing violence.
Its going to be a long four years.........
My neighborhood is one of the most diverse neighborhoods in all of New York: Pakistani, Bengali, Uzbek, Hasidim, muslim, whites, latinos, blacks, Asians.
It breaks my heart knowing Trump is infiltrating -- perhaps authorizing -- or normalizing violence.
Its going to be a long four years.........
18
Just as long, katheryn, as the first four years of the Obama administration...
And, the second three and three-quarters years, too.
It breaks my heart that the Rule of Law has been sold down the river for ideological partisanship.
And, the second three and three-quarters years, too.
It breaks my heart that the Rule of Law has been sold down the river for ideological partisanship.
1
January 20, 2017
Over 240 years down the drain
..."What Hath GOD Wrought"...
..."You Can Fool Most of the People Most of the Time"...
..."Wait, You Aint Seen Nothing Yet"...
Over 240 years down the drain
..."What Hath GOD Wrought"...
..."You Can Fool Most of the People Most of the Time"...
..."Wait, You Aint Seen Nothing Yet"...
6
Just think of all the great jobs that will be available for legal citizens. Picking vegetables 14 hours a day for peanuts, washing dishes, or even demolishing buildings for Trump's newest high rise project. Of curse all those Republican business people will be screaming when they can't find schmucks - i.e. legal citizens - to take their crappy jobs with crappy or nonexistent benefits.
45
Legal workers and strong labor laws: that should be the goal.
3
And then there are all those jobs in the construction trades. But that's another inconvenient truth.
2
Agreed. We also need to crack down on all the employers who knowingly hire illegals. What's been lost in the discussion about immigration is the need for a guest worker program to allow filling of jobs that many people just don't want to do.
2
"Mr. Trump may be unaware of due process, or in denial about it, but it exists."
Trump IS aware, but he doesn't care, and drunk on power now, still feels he can just do as he pleases.
So he rounds up immigrants with all the immediate aftershocks that this editorial presents, AND at the same time, he creates registries of Muslims living in the US (the news has been erratic on that, some this is true, some saying no, based on Donald Trump "walkbacks."
Isn't this in essence simply the creation of a police state? Isn't it funny that the crowd that wants to downsize government by eliminating government now wants to expand federal authority into unknown, uncharted, and anti-constitutional authority?
While the constitution may seem like a nicety to Mr. Trump, it does exist as he knows full well on his rants about the 2nd amendment. But I'm also getting "on" to Trump by his willful and deliberate habit of keeping the public so whipsawed (first he says it, then he retracts it, then he DOES it) that they won't know what hits them until it does.
Be very careful Mr. Trump--you do not have a popular mandate. The American people aren't going to go down lightly on your violations of "cherished American ideals."
Trump IS aware, but he doesn't care, and drunk on power now, still feels he can just do as he pleases.
So he rounds up immigrants with all the immediate aftershocks that this editorial presents, AND at the same time, he creates registries of Muslims living in the US (the news has been erratic on that, some this is true, some saying no, based on Donald Trump "walkbacks."
Isn't this in essence simply the creation of a police state? Isn't it funny that the crowd that wants to downsize government by eliminating government now wants to expand federal authority into unknown, uncharted, and anti-constitutional authority?
While the constitution may seem like a nicety to Mr. Trump, it does exist as he knows full well on his rants about the 2nd amendment. But I'm also getting "on" to Trump by his willful and deliberate habit of keeping the public so whipsawed (first he says it, then he retracts it, then he DOES it) that they won't know what hits them until it does.
Be very careful Mr. Trump--you do not have a popular mandate. The American people aren't going to go down lightly on your violations of "cherished American ideals."
31
Wou;d you allow in a guest into your house who may kill you ? PERIOD.
1
He as far more of a mandate, Ms. McMorrow, than, say, Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, or Chuck Schumer,
1
Trump's transition team says there is no plan to create Muslim registries. It is a nonissue. Trump doesn't propose any changes to U.S. immigration law. He plans to enforce the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act, which President Bill Clinton signed into law in 1996. This act, which passed with huge bi-partisan majorities in both houses, calls for the deportation of unauthorized immigrants.
I agree with most of this piece.
The target figure of 2-3 million deportations needs to be substantiated, the civil liberties implications of this plan are alarming, and the governmental machinery needed to execute it would be massive.
My own fear is that such a program would set a dangerous precedent for intensive domestic intelligence gathering, surveillance and arrest.
That said, the Times goes a bit far when it characterizes illegal immigrants as the people who "keep the economy humming." The hiring of illegal immigrants is something to be discouraged. American citizens and immigrants with legitimate green cards are those who should be claiming all American jobs.
Endorsing a path to citizenship is commendable. Advocating the continued hiring of illegals is not.
The target figure of 2-3 million deportations needs to be substantiated, the civil liberties implications of this plan are alarming, and the governmental machinery needed to execute it would be massive.
My own fear is that such a program would set a dangerous precedent for intensive domestic intelligence gathering, surveillance and arrest.
That said, the Times goes a bit far when it characterizes illegal immigrants as the people who "keep the economy humming." The hiring of illegal immigrants is something to be discouraged. American citizens and immigrants with legitimate green cards are those who should be claiming all American jobs.
Endorsing a path to citizenship is commendable. Advocating the continued hiring of illegals is not.
92
the hiring of illegals is already AGAINST THE LAW
1
According to ABC News, President Obama has deported 2.5 million illegal immigrants since he took office.
Well the number will be determined when the process removes them, and how do people who are illegal or have over stayed their visa have any civil rights to stay. They do have the right to due process, fast due process.
once the round up starts on one of Trump's construction projects the GOP powerful will back down.
24
I'm sure he's personally checking the credentials of all the staff making beds in his hotels and mowing his golf courses at this very moment. Good example for the populace, you know.
So we're going to man the barricades for the MS13 gang members murdering kids in Brentwood? Fight for the hundreds of thousands here illegally convicted of felonies?
Don't go over the top NYT.
Don't go over the top NYT.
39
"It took the Obama administration eight years to deport 2.5 million immigrants."
=
On the Right, we have heard, that THESE 'deportations' (Obama-style) were people turned away at the border, NOT people taken inside the US and transported back to 'wherever' mostly Mexico
=
I have no idea how many criminals there are among the people who are already illegal by the crime of being here, nor do I think NYT does, nor do I think we know how many people are here illegally (quaint notion, if not some 'ism,' to want people to be here legally)
As for conscription of local police forces, which might resist, LA has already said so, said 'no,' and NYC cannot be far behind, Chicago does not have any police, or so it seems, from the murder rate
I am fascinated by these same doctrines used now that led to our first Civil War, doctrines of interposition and nullification
A. Lincoln, POTUS 16, was considered a great president, for refusing to let States secede, even though he had no lawful basis to do, and invented one from the nature of armed insurrection. He was a lawyer, solo practitioner mostly, so he might have known the law
The Union Army won THAT one, the total body count was 600,000 dead and an equivalent wounded, in a country one tenth our population
Adjust those figure for a 10x bigger country, and it would be 6M dad and 6M wounded, for Union, Federal authority, if we wish to have States' Rights, now THAT would a change
Mr Lincoln, call your office, we need your expertise
=
On the Right, we have heard, that THESE 'deportations' (Obama-style) were people turned away at the border, NOT people taken inside the US and transported back to 'wherever' mostly Mexico
=
I have no idea how many criminals there are among the people who are already illegal by the crime of being here, nor do I think NYT does, nor do I think we know how many people are here illegally (quaint notion, if not some 'ism,' to want people to be here legally)
As for conscription of local police forces, which might resist, LA has already said so, said 'no,' and NYC cannot be far behind, Chicago does not have any police, or so it seems, from the murder rate
I am fascinated by these same doctrines used now that led to our first Civil War, doctrines of interposition and nullification
A. Lincoln, POTUS 16, was considered a great president, for refusing to let States secede, even though he had no lawful basis to do, and invented one from the nature of armed insurrection. He was a lawyer, solo practitioner mostly, so he might have known the law
The Union Army won THAT one, the total body count was 600,000 dead and an equivalent wounded, in a country one tenth our population
Adjust those figure for a 10x bigger country, and it would be 6M dad and 6M wounded, for Union, Federal authority, if we wish to have States' Rights, now THAT would a change
Mr Lincoln, call your office, we need your expertise
11
Coming to the U.S. without authorization IS NOT A CRIME. It carries no criminal sanctions.
15
NB _ Deportation is a criminal sanction, so I believe you to be incorrect on that basis. Further, it is in violation of law, so that makes it a criminal act on that basis as well.
1
NB, I immigrated legally to the united states. My application required me to assert that I had never "Helped anyone to enter, or try to enter, the United States illegally".
It would seem that the Federal government takes "illegal entry" seriously - to whit entering under false pretenses, bypassing border inspection, working without a permit, using public resources etc. is illegal.
It would seem that the Federal government takes "illegal entry" seriously - to whit entering under false pretenses, bypassing border inspection, working without a permit, using public resources etc. is illegal.
2
A slippery slope once again. Before long who else gets thrown into this mix? A "few" American Muslims, a handful blacks, and maybe few Jews too...
We see where this might go.
We see where this might go.
24
it would be the height of hubris to threaten american cities with refusal of federal funds if they do not participate in a purge of OTHERS. i heard some blow hard saying this would happen if certain cities do not play along. yeah RIGHT. here in california being our taxes that flow to w d c are used to help all the middle states of the country, maybe our state retaliation would be refusing to remit our tax dollars to the federal government. creating and enforcing law is two different endeavors. the candidate elect still can not make that division in his head. maybe in time by next year certain winds they think the MANDATE has given them will be evaporating. one can hope and dream
20
The Obama administration threatened to withhold federal funds from communities if they disciplined disruptive and violent minority students too ''harshly'',this policy is wreaking havoc in inner city school systems.Your thoughts?
1
That is a very good point. The many "takers" want to use the money that they have taken from the "makers" and spend it on the radical policies of the candidate for whom few people voted than his chief opponent.
Is this really how Alexander Hamilton and James Madison envisioned the government working? Historians, help me out, because I'm really having a hard time making sense of this.
Is this really how Alexander Hamilton and James Madison envisioned the government working? Historians, help me out, because I'm really having a hard time making sense of this.
The NYT, in some strange attempt to recreate our country, refuses like so many others for some strange reason, to admit that "unauthorized " is actually illegal, according to our laws. We used to be a democracy made of laws and law abiding citizens. The people here illegally are costing us, the tax payers, millions of dollars. If politicians showed up at our doors demanding that money, there would be a revolt.
42
How are the illegal immigrants costing tax payers? They don't receive any federal benefits. None. In fact, a lot of them pay taxes and STILL don't receive benefits.
Instead, they do the jobs that legal Americans wouldn't dare touch. Who will pick your strawberries for $4/hour? Without these immigrants you'll see agricultural products skyrocket in price, actually burdening the tax payers.
Instead, they do the jobs that legal Americans wouldn't dare touch. Who will pick your strawberries for $4/hour? Without these immigrants you'll see agricultural products skyrocket in price, actually burdening the tax payers.
1
Of all the crimes one could commit, entering a country to make a better life for yourself and your family isn't particularly offensive. The country's money would be better spent and we'd get more bang for the buck investigating billionaires who pay no taxes.
1
A myth. Trump's Twitter feed is not a reliable measure of truth and neither is FB.
"The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy released a report in February 2016, stating that 11 million undocumented immigrants in the United States are paying annually an estimated amount of $11.64 billion in state and local taxes."
http://www.itep.org/
"The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy released a report in February 2016, stating that 11 million undocumented immigrants in the United States are paying annually an estimated amount of $11.64 billion in state and local taxes."
http://www.itep.org/
2
Deporting illegals with serious criminal convictions isn't as hard as one may think, and if accomplished, shifts the conversation to helping those without a record. First many of those are still in jail, on probation, currently in the judicial system or in a database somewhere. By deporting these people, illegals without records could no longer be lumped into a group of people for which they don't belong, and it would also boost the morale of ICE officials who are tired of doing their jobs, only to see the criminals they detain, later released. Ultimately it would put the ball back into Trumps court and take away Republicans strongest argument for legalizing the honest hard working people here without status. If Trump is the businessman he claims, then he too can understand the economic impact of 10 million people paying their fare of taxes.
13
Many do not realize that though "unauthorized", many/most? of those working folk already pay taxes, and help their local economy by providing work, and by consuming goods in their own locales. Additionally, a bunch of their earned monies are returned to their families south of our borders, allowing those families to survive, without having to follow the illegal route up to the US.
Since the "economic recovery" there has been a marked reduction in illegal crossings according to various news outlets.
Since the "economic recovery" there has been a marked reduction in illegal crossings according to various news outlets.
Well, the NYT announced that he claimed he saved a Ford plant, when in fact, it wasn't closing, just changing the type of vehicles it made. The same is true about convicted felons in this country illegally: they are deported at the end of their sentence. What is the problem here? Oh, I know: he can't seem to speak the truth.
27
If by deported you mean released back into the city where they committed the crime your right. And if you think that it's ok to pay for their incarceration for their crime your wrong.
“That is not our job, nor will I make it our job,” said the Los Angeles police chief, Charlie Beck.
Actually it is, Chief. You (and all government officials) take an oath to uphold the Constitution and the laws of your state. And all this talk about purging and crying about families split apart, ignore that FACT that these people are breaking the laws. Not just immigration law, but other laws.
But the NYT, and the open borders enablers would like to believe that those squatting in the US illegally are tax paying (they broke the law to get a SS # - its' stolen, and maybe used it to register to vote), and law-abiding excellent residents (they lied and broke the law to stay). And if you had a child born in the US, you're still a criminal.
The rest of us adults, don't think that breaking the law deserves rewards, but appropriate consequences. If it makes the illegal scared, so be it. BUT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT illegal aliens that have committed ADDITIONAL crimes.
Like the magical thinking that brought them to this place, the NYT and open borders fanatics refuse to accept reality that crime is crime and needs to be death with, in this case deporting or incarceration, even if it is their favorite victim group. I'm not sure whose "cherished ideals" the NYT is referring to in their conclusion, but Donald Trump and many who supported and will work for him, are referring to enforcing existing law.
Actually it is, Chief. You (and all government officials) take an oath to uphold the Constitution and the laws of your state. And all this talk about purging and crying about families split apart, ignore that FACT that these people are breaking the laws. Not just immigration law, but other laws.
But the NYT, and the open borders enablers would like to believe that those squatting in the US illegally are tax paying (they broke the law to get a SS # - its' stolen, and maybe used it to register to vote), and law-abiding excellent residents (they lied and broke the law to stay). And if you had a child born in the US, you're still a criminal.
The rest of us adults, don't think that breaking the law deserves rewards, but appropriate consequences. If it makes the illegal scared, so be it. BUT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT illegal aliens that have committed ADDITIONAL crimes.
Like the magical thinking that brought them to this place, the NYT and open borders fanatics refuse to accept reality that crime is crime and needs to be death with, in this case deporting or incarceration, even if it is their favorite victim group. I'm not sure whose "cherished ideals" the NYT is referring to in their conclusion, but Donald Trump and many who supported and will work for him, are referring to enforcing existing law.
36
Police have no authority under existing immigration authority to partipate in enforcing immigration laws. Just like they can't collect unpaid income taxes. Duh.
13
Keep pushing NB, thumbs up.
And minhz, nice freudian slip in your last paragraph, very telling.
And minhz, nice freudian slip in your last paragraph, very telling.
NB, the government has the authority to withhold funds from the so called Sanctuary Cities. Give them a huge budget deficit and maybe, just maybe they will stop coddling and protecting all illegals, even those with criminal backgrounds. Of course, these cities are all run by democrats who pander and seek votes, no matter what. I laughed when I heard the Chicago mayor proclaim his city is a safe have for illegals. He should have added "if you're not and killed first.
2
When you do foolish things, the results are frequently extremely unpleasant. The people who decided a reality TV star without the skills, the inclination or the ability should be President of the United States because he promised to "Make American Great Again" are going to find that out. Unfortunately, so is the rest of the world.
45
I am a U.S. Army veteran. I am appalled by the notion of a draft-dodging egomaniac, who relied on lies and propaganda to get elected, trampling on the rights and freedoms that countless soldiers died defending. Too many of my countrymen believe only what they want to believe, facts be damned. This new, gullible America is becoming unrecognizable to me, and is breaking my heart.
727
Evidently you're an outlier. Most vets tend to prefer voting for chicken hawk (Trump). AWOL (W) Republican Presidential Candidates over truly honorable Serving Democrats (John F. Kennedy.
George McGovern, Jimmy Carter).
George McGovern, Jimmy Carter).
2
I couldn't agree with you more
US Soldiers died defending the rights of criminal illegal immigrants,who knew?
1
If there are 300,000 people here illegally with felony convictions, why are they still here? What is the problem with deporting them? If the number is much smaller, doesn't that make the job easier, not harder?
39
President Obama proposed focusing deportation resources on criminals yet the Republicans howled that he was overstepping his Executive authority and fought him in Court.
25
So if we can agree on that, what about the other 3 to 11 million Trump wants to deport?
Did you read the article? A lot of them are in detention or jail already. They will be deported when theiir hearings are complete or their sentences have been served. If an illegal immigrant commits a murder, do you want them to be deported immediately so that they can quickly return? Or do you want to ensure that they serve their sentence?
I plan on personally sheltering undocumented aliens. Then, when this nightmare is over, I hope to be inducted into The Righteous Among Nations!
8
Please make sure to pick the cream of the crop of the criminal illegals - the MS-13 gang members, drug dealers and those making meth, and the murderers. I'm sure your neighbors will be thrilled.
2
the people of this country must accept the fact that this man and his followers and repeating history. this is the infancy stage of fascism.
we only have one choice to make as a nation. stop it now.
there will be blood in the streets very soon if we do not stand up to this man and his followers.
we only have one choice to make as a nation. stop it now.
there will be blood in the streets very soon if we do not stand up to this man and his followers.
29
Purging Trump will also result in blood in the streets. What a mess. Why why why was this man allowed to be in the race? Yeah, he is the President-elect, but I continue to obsess on the absurdity that a creature with no qualifications could enter the Presidential race.
I am a political naif; I am entering the senior decrepitude era of my life; but I will be out there fighting this with every weapon I can muster. I hope that behind the scenes, beyond the nicey-nice rhetoric, the movers and shakers are scheming a way out of this. I plead with every outraged citizen to deluge their elected officials with requests to block every move that Trump and company make. Please make it impossible for Bannon, McConnell, Ryan, et al, to destroy democracy.
I am a political naif; I am entering the senior decrepitude era of my life; but I will be out there fighting this with every weapon I can muster. I hope that behind the scenes, beyond the nicey-nice rhetoric, the movers and shakers are scheming a way out of this. I plead with every outraged citizen to deluge their elected officials with requests to block every move that Trump and company make. Please make it impossible for Bannon, McConnell, Ryan, et al, to destroy democracy.
2
As a taxpayer I'm all for defunding sanctuary cities. When local law enforcement refuses ICEs request to hold felons for 48 hours so they can be deported but instead releases them back to society then that is aiding snd abetting a criminal. Lawlessness cannot be tolerated in this country, especially by the forces that are supposed to protect our citizens. The majority of Americans I'm sure agree.
32
Are you as enraged at the businesses and people who employ the illegal workers ?
Would you like to see all of the employers and the businesses who are criminally hiring illegal workers
put in jail?
The illegals come primarily to find work.... someone is hiring them.
I think going after the employers
(of which there are many fewer to find and incarcerate, than there are illegal workers)
it would immediately change the conversation.
Let's put the criminals who hire illegal workers in jail and see how quickly the stream of illegal workers dries up. Why? No Jobs.
That would probably mean your favorite restaurant, your landscaper, your fruit pickers, your cleaning service. But ironically the employers aren't seen or perceived as criminals.... that is just for the poor people they employ. These criminal employers don't care because they are never vigorously prosecuted.
They live in a sanctuary country for criminal employers.
These criminal employers can just get more illegals and actually pay them even less. Nobody cares.
Would you like to see all of the employers and the businesses who are criminally hiring illegal workers
put in jail?
The illegals come primarily to find work.... someone is hiring them.
I think going after the employers
(of which there are many fewer to find and incarcerate, than there are illegal workers)
it would immediately change the conversation.
Let's put the criminals who hire illegal workers in jail and see how quickly the stream of illegal workers dries up. Why? No Jobs.
That would probably mean your favorite restaurant, your landscaper, your fruit pickers, your cleaning service. But ironically the employers aren't seen or perceived as criminals.... that is just for the poor people they employ. These criminal employers don't care because they are never vigorously prosecuted.
They live in a sanctuary country for criminal employers.
These criminal employers can just get more illegals and actually pay them even less. Nobody cares.
1
P, does this lawlessness you speak of extend to the Bundy clan?
1
Law enfircement needs people willing to speak up as eyewitnesses. So, no. Federal agents enfirce federal laws. Why do you want to hinder them?
What will he do when all the Mexican Muslims that cook, clean and do maintenance and repairs at his hotels and golf courses are catapulted into early martyrdom? I think the first raids should be on his properties, specifically the new hotel at the old post office in D.C. It's not doing well anyway, it would give him a perfect excuse for another bankruptcy, yielding yet another posse of partners kicked to the curb, saddled with debt while he gets paid. If you live around here, be prepared to pay a lot more for house cleaning, home health care, farm and ranch labor, auto repair, landscaping, haircuts and construction. Be further prepared to wait in line to pay more for those services. How adept are you at self checkout at the supermarket? Seriously, more than half of the local sheriff's deputies and border patrol agents are hispanic. I doubt we'll be able to recruit enough Irishmen from NY and Boston to make up for them. Besides we have a dearth of Irish pubs and donut shops. We do have some awesome food trucks, but mostly they serve, you guessed it, Mexican food. Perhaps some of Steve Bannon's buddies over at the Aryan nation can provide us with a militia?
24
So, following your logic, it is OK to exploit these people, because the only reason they took those jobs is a pay below minimum wage and no benefits, so no americans wanted it, but illegal immigrants had no choice due do their illegal status.
Once you legalize these people, do you think they stay on these job? I doubt it. They will start climbing social ladder and leave those underpaid jobs as soon as they get their papers in order joining those if us who "do not want to take those jobs". So, who will be doing "house cleaning, home health care, farm and ranch labor, auto repair, landscaping, haircuts and construction"? A new wave or illegals immigrants? Will it even end? Yes, I am aware of prices getting higher if wages for these jobs becomes decent, but I am willing to pay more. I am already pay more in taxes for these people social services, education, and healthcare. My husband works in city hospital in Elmhurst, where the number of illegal immigrant with no insurance and no money is prevalent. Who is paying for them ? You and me!
Once you legalize these people, do you think they stay on these job? I doubt it. They will start climbing social ladder and leave those underpaid jobs as soon as they get their papers in order joining those if us who "do not want to take those jobs". So, who will be doing "house cleaning, home health care, farm and ranch labor, auto repair, landscaping, haircuts and construction"? A new wave or illegals immigrants? Will it even end? Yes, I am aware of prices getting higher if wages for these jobs becomes decent, but I am willing to pay more. I am already pay more in taxes for these people social services, education, and healthcare. My husband works in city hospital in Elmhurst, where the number of illegal immigrant with no insurance and no money is prevalent. Who is paying for them ? You and me!
2
We clean our own house, my barber is an American of German extraction.
I can remember when all the jobs you listed were filled by unskilled poorly educated Americans until they were forced out by people willing to work for less money and worse conditions.
Every time I read something like this It always ends with how much more we'll pay for goods and services if these people leave. Is that your real justification for keeping them here? People working for poor wages so you can have a cheap salad.
What more we pay will be negated by how much of our taxes it takes to support them.
We have an illegal here from Central America who used the emergency room 153 times in 15 months. He has almost 100 sets of X-Rays from those trips. Can you estimate how much he's cost us?
I can remember when all the jobs you listed were filled by unskilled poorly educated Americans until they were forced out by people willing to work for less money and worse conditions.
Every time I read something like this It always ends with how much more we'll pay for goods and services if these people leave. Is that your real justification for keeping them here? People working for poor wages so you can have a cheap salad.
What more we pay will be negated by how much of our taxes it takes to support them.
We have an illegal here from Central America who used the emergency room 153 times in 15 months. He has almost 100 sets of X-Rays from those trips. Can you estimate how much he's cost us?
I have to resort to name calling due to the size of your ignorance. We were told that these illegal's weren't taking jobs away from American citizens but now they seem to have lots of jobs that the 96 million plus out of work Americans can now take. And I know it must be difficult for you to drag a food item across the laser and place it in a bag but chin up you will get the handle on it in a year or two.
Badges we don't need no stinkin badges
When he can't find them or he can't deport them it will only prove that dangerous forces are at work subverting his policies. This will be a call for even greater authority.
Of course he will not find them because they don't exist. Deporting them will be hard due to the republican refusal to approve judicial nominees in the court system.
But why use logic when extremism will do much better
When he can't find them or he can't deport them it will only prove that dangerous forces are at work subverting his policies. This will be a call for even greater authority.
Of course he will not find them because they don't exist. Deporting them will be hard due to the republican refusal to approve judicial nominees in the court system.
But why use logic when extremism will do much better
12
This is how fascism starts and then takes hold.
- Fear grips the targeted groups.
- Individuals and families start to hide.
- Non-immigrants with empathy break the law to protect them.
- The demagogue who hates being a "loser" hardens his position.
- The police, emboldened and righteous, go after the protectors.
- Collective psychosis sets in.
- Divisions and rancor magnify.
- The Police State is upon us before we know it.
- Fear grips the targeted groups.
- Individuals and families start to hide.
- Non-immigrants with empathy break the law to protect them.
- The demagogue who hates being a "loser" hardens his position.
- The police, emboldened and righteous, go after the protectors.
- Collective psychosis sets in.
- Divisions and rancor magnify.
- The Police State is upon us before we know it.
34
Americans voted for secure national borders. once borders are secure, we can determine what to do with those here illegally. Until then, it is necessary to send the right message to reduce incentives for coming illegally. Stop being so stupid...That's why you lost the election.
25
DT having been elected is the biggest disincentive to coming here illegally – or legally.
I'm still waiting for someone to explain how to secure our borders. Look at a map. 2 huge oceans, miles of un occupied land, the Gulf of Mexico. What will seal all of that?
1
Some people voted for the crackpot wall idea, not even half by the way.
1
Trump makes up all sorts of numbers. Try as people might to refute his exaggerations with facts, the audience he has been playing and successfully rode to the White House could care less. Trump appeal is to uneducated white males who bought his stories that Obama is from Kenya, thousands of Muslims were celebrating 9/11, and our whole system is fixed. They hate the government, people of color, and non Christians. Trump realized early on anything he says about these groups or entities, no matter how wild, are a magnate for these deplorable human beings.
25
The only number that counts right now is 290. Soon to be 306.
First, the 11 million is whittled down to 3..."all illegals" becomes "criminals". So he is now prioritizing. What next? Hold back in "Dreamers" no doubt. And presto! President Obama's policy! Oy.
12
It took a long time for the NYT to respond to Mr. Trump's threat. It contains everything we loath and fear about him: ignorance, xenophobia, agitation, demagoguery, hate, lies. But I appreciate your editorial in its sincere concern and eloquent argument. Growing up in post war Germany, in the historic horrific shadows of the Nazi regimen, his threat resonates with me in a scary way, like PTSD. As the German chancellor said in her congratulating note: cooperation with the Trump government will only occur on shared values. He is off to the worst start possible.
24
Funny, I always thought that a shared American value was being a law abiding citizen. Silly me.
1
This sure sounds like a great plan to deport millions of Illegal immigrants. For those who do not support deportation of illegal immigrants, May I ask Why?
What about those who come to US legally, spend thousands of dollars on college degree, work & pay taxes? Should they wait years to get their green card just because Illegal immigrants can get citizenship through Amnesty? Have you seen anything like this in other countries? Trump became President because so many people share his views. And these are the same people who elected Obama twice. Don't paint these people as racists just because they do not agree with you.
"Mr. Trump and his Republican allies in Congress have threatened to cut off federal funding to immigrant-friendly “sanctuary cities” like San Francisco, Chicago and New York". This a great idea. Illegal Immigrants are stealing the jobs of hard working Americans. It's totally unfair to support them. Was it mentioned anywhere in our sacred constitution that you can provide shelter & work for Illegal immigrants?
Hope Trump deports millions of Illegal Immigrants so that legal immigrants can achieve their American dream.
What about those who come to US legally, spend thousands of dollars on college degree, work & pay taxes? Should they wait years to get their green card just because Illegal immigrants can get citizenship through Amnesty? Have you seen anything like this in other countries? Trump became President because so many people share his views. And these are the same people who elected Obama twice. Don't paint these people as racists just because they do not agree with you.
"Mr. Trump and his Republican allies in Congress have threatened to cut off federal funding to immigrant-friendly “sanctuary cities” like San Francisco, Chicago and New York". This a great idea. Illegal Immigrants are stealing the jobs of hard working Americans. It's totally unfair to support them. Was it mentioned anywhere in our sacred constitution that you can provide shelter & work for Illegal immigrants?
Hope Trump deports millions of Illegal Immigrants so that legal immigrants can achieve their American dream.
31
Kevin---so they are taking the jobs of hard working Americans while washing dishes, cutting lawns, picking lettuce, cleaning houses, plucking chickens? You bought this fairy tale of these people taking "your" jobs. I see a mad dash of all those angry white men rushing to take these fabulous jobs when Emperor Trump rounds the illegals up and sends them packing!!!!
1
Immigrants leave their homeland because of regimes that threaten their lives and the lives of their families. That does not make those folks criminals. I dare say you and yours might do the same if faced with such a situation. And honestly, D. Cheney and W. Bush destroyed the Middle East, and in so doing destroyed the lives of many. We have an obligation to take in the refugees whose country we destroyed. We don't get to walk away from the destruction of the Bush/Cheney years. We just don't. And really, when did America become so mean and heartless. It's the politicians who have ignored a host of issues in this country that caused the great depression, the lack of jobs, and the destruction of the American way of life, not immigrants. Go after the politicians if you want change. Now, with Trump at the helm, oh God, we'll have to wait four long, miserable years for that to happen. I'm praying Trump doesn't make it through eight, because if he does, our sacred constitution wouldn't.
2
And lets punish the employers too while we are at it!
Everyone who is here Illegally should be deported, period. Most people agree with that, its why Trump was elected.
25
Except for Native Americans, we all came here illegally. And then stole the land from the Indians.
Except for the Irish who overstayed their visa or the Chinese tourists and their anchor babies. It seems that the only ones anyone cares about are brown skinned--- everyone else it's just, "meh".
No. Because he did not win the poular vote. Not most...
Times: "... the country’s 11 million unauthorized immigrants ..."
The Times never uses the word "illegal" even once. Is there an actual difference between "unauthorized" and "illegal"?
The Times never uses the word "illegal" even once. Is there an actual difference between "unauthorized" and "illegal"?
35
There's certainly a difference between "illegal" and "criminal," but many people don't seem to realize that.
This is what Trump does. He sends out false information-2 or 3 million people are going to be deported. He knows it's much less than that. But he also knows the news will pick it up and run with it. He won the election doing that very same thing. But the reality eventually creeps up on him and he fails on his promise. It is self destructive and provides a flash point of contention. This is what we have to look forward to for the next 4 years. He is doing the same with his cabinet picks. He sends out false signals the news media picks up and they run with it. He is playing with the news media. The media does "in depth" reporting on people who will never be a cabinet member-and Trump just laughs.
The real problem is a President elect should not do that. In time this will catch up on Trump-he will step over the line-it just a matter of time-but it will happen. Don't know how or when - just that it will happen
The real problem is a President elect should not do that. In time this will catch up on Trump-he will step over the line-it just a matter of time-but it will happen. Don't know how or when - just that it will happen
9
A restless night, no coffee yet, so perhaps I'm missing something. But taking Trump at his word, and cutting the statement to deporting illegal aliens who have also committed crimes - I am not in the least disturbed. I don't care about the numbers, which due to data collection methods may not be accurate. Here illegally? Documented criminal activity? It's time to go. I understand this makes me some sort of fascist. So be it. Anarchy, chaos and willful disregard of the law is no way to run a state or country.
22
Did you not READ the part that said the Obama administration had already deported 2.5 million during his 8 year administration? This is the most of any administration ever. The fact is people resonate with Trump's demagoguery of the "other" NOT what he will actually do.
1
"According to rough estimates by the Migration Policy Institute, of the country’s 11 million unauthorized immigrants, about 820,000 have criminal records"
820,000? Are you kidding me?
That is almost exactly the population of San Francisco! Even if we accept the New York Times 820,000 estimate, tolerating the presence of those illegal criminals in our country is unconscionable. Strong opposition to this group of people is not anti-hispanic or anti-Mexican or anti-immigrant -- it's ANTI-CRIMINALS. Plain and simple.
1. Deport all undocumented criminals. Find the resources. Streamline the process. And get it done.
2. Get control of our border. I don't know if that means a Trump wall or more of Obama's security fence or drones or far more people patrolling the border or a combination of all of the above -- but it is ESSENTIAL we only allow people into the country LEGALLY. If we had control of our border we would have 820,000 less CRIMINALS here. I have no idea why anyone is opposed to this?!?!
3. ONLY when we've accomplished the above can we have a serious and thoughtful conversation about how to proceed with the law abiding undocumented people already here.
820,000? Are you kidding me?
That is almost exactly the population of San Francisco! Even if we accept the New York Times 820,000 estimate, tolerating the presence of those illegal criminals in our country is unconscionable. Strong opposition to this group of people is not anti-hispanic or anti-Mexican or anti-immigrant -- it's ANTI-CRIMINALS. Plain and simple.
1. Deport all undocumented criminals. Find the resources. Streamline the process. And get it done.
2. Get control of our border. I don't know if that means a Trump wall or more of Obama's security fence or drones or far more people patrolling the border or a combination of all of the above -- but it is ESSENTIAL we only allow people into the country LEGALLY. If we had control of our border we would have 820,000 less CRIMINALS here. I have no idea why anyone is opposed to this?!?!
3. ONLY when we've accomplished the above can we have a serious and thoughtful conversation about how to proceed with the law abiding undocumented people already here.
17
"I will deport 11 million illegal aliens!"', which galvanized Trumpkins and launched That Man to the White House has been whittled down to a toothpick...like all his demagogic pronouncements. So we end up with nothing but the least qualified president in history who will spend his time simply dancing around his empty, unfulfillable promises using his salesmanship to convince the rubes...uh...his supporters that the bean is under the wrong shell. Terrific.
12
Easy solution to the "problem" of illegal immigrants.
Any illegal immigrants helping to build the wall get citizenship.
Problem solved.
Any illegal immigrants helping to build the wall get citizenship.
Problem solved.
4
Congratulations, White America, the process of the racial purification of our country has begun.
14
Oh please. The fact that we don't want to have people who violated our immigration laws or who are Muslim and come from Islamic terrorist countries is not "purification" but showing good old common sense.
1
This kind of ridiculous hyperbole is what helped elect him.
I think you missed the point. He and his kind believe if you're here illegally you're a criminal. Don't project reason and clarity on the man.
6
There is a sizable number of convicted violent criminals who are subject to deportation ... but who are still here because the countries the came from will not take them back.
What does the new administration propose to do with them?
What does the new administration propose to do with them?
6
Parachute them back to their home country. If the chute doesn't open, illegal immigration will plummet. I am being facetious.
3
Pressure their countries by denying further visas if they don't comply with the law. Easy.
The idea that persons working illegally in the United States keep our economy "humming" is simply a lie: a big, bald-faced lie, as well as an insult to American workers and legal immigrants. It is a lie on the magnitude of the Times' claim that enforcement of our laws against illegal entry would constitute a "purge", a term redolent of Stalinism. Times Editorial Board: do you have no shame?
20
Great ! You need to please report to the nearest tomatoe, strawberry or citrus grove and start picking. You will be paid on production only, no benefits, minimal breaks, no protection from the elements. Your day will start at sunrise and end after sunset. Your pay will be around $ 150.00 per week. Out of this, you will have to pay for transportation, supervisor fees and whatever else can be grabbed back from you. We are so pleased that REAL Americans will be finely be encouraged to take these jobs !!! By the way, exactly how do you think the produce in your local grocery store gets there ?
Not-my-president Trump's oppression has already been felt. Unauthorized immigrant families are being terrorized; news stories have already shown us frightened children, in tears over what may happen to their parents, to them.
What will not-my-president Trump actually do with undocumented immigrants? No one knows for sure, certainly not him. The only thing we know for fact is that the only thing he truly wants is attention. And as has been pointed out by him--to him it doesn't matter if the attention is negative or positive. It is possible his wall and his deportation manifesto are just noise.
But regardless of what not-my-president Trump (it actually feels good to type that!) will do about deporting unauthorized immigrants, building a wall, monitoring Muslims, expanding 'stop and frisk', persecuting Hillary Clinton; regardless of these outrages and many more, this is not the way to heal our nation. Unless he intends to heel our nation.
The point is, not-my-president Trump spreads anxiety and uncertainty through America and the world. And that may be his policy: keep everyone off balance wondering what will he do. The price America pays for this man-child's stunted emotional development staggering. Can the nation survive a Trump roller-coaster presidency? Not just frightened immigrant children are in tears.
What will not-my-president Trump actually do with undocumented immigrants? No one knows for sure, certainly not him. The only thing we know for fact is that the only thing he truly wants is attention. And as has been pointed out by him--to him it doesn't matter if the attention is negative or positive. It is possible his wall and his deportation manifesto are just noise.
But regardless of what not-my-president Trump (it actually feels good to type that!) will do about deporting unauthorized immigrants, building a wall, monitoring Muslims, expanding 'stop and frisk', persecuting Hillary Clinton; regardless of these outrages and many more, this is not the way to heal our nation. Unless he intends to heel our nation.
The point is, not-my-president Trump spreads anxiety and uncertainty through America and the world. And that may be his policy: keep everyone off balance wondering what will he do. The price America pays for this man-child's stunted emotional development staggering. Can the nation survive a Trump roller-coaster presidency? Not just frightened immigrant children are in tears.
12
Welcome the line of black SUVs down Elm Street, pulling up to the rental house on Mt. View Circle, your cul-de-sac! Watch enormous vehicles with blacked out windows wending their way down your country roads in Farm Country, USA! Look at that detail of dark-uniformed men carrying military weapons storming your apartment building in downtown Minneapolis. Welcome to the Stalinesque world of Donald Trump and his angry right-wing conservative jackboots preserving our safety (sic). You voted for him. I didn't. We all will be victims as our country morphs into a fortress of fear.
11
Wow, what a fevered imagination.
Let up. Give him a chance. Don't need nytimes constantly criticizing.
11
We gave him a chance during the election campaign. His policies follow his racist, elitist, immoral, sexist rhetoric. His cabinet selections are the worse of the worst - deplorables in every shape and manner.....that's when he is not trying to create a culture of illegal nepotism. He may be in now by electoral college vote. But the majority of Americans did NOT vote for him. If thinks a wall around Mexico will be a barrier, what until he sees the one true and decent Americans build around him.
If the Times and other publications had done MORE criticizing - which they should have - Trump would not be President-Elect! And, so far he is off to a very awful start. Hiring an avowed White Nationalist sympathizer to advise him on "strategy;" a man forced out of the Intelligence Agency who sits by Putin's side as the National Security Advisor; a Senator who was unable to be approved to the federal judiciary by fellow Republicans because of allegations of racism now heading the Justice Department; and possibly giving our top diplomatic job to another racist, misogynist megalomaniac - all because they were his "buddies." If that is not worthy of loud and incessant criticism, I don't know what is!
1
The plan is stupid, for the reasons explained. The Times has an obligation to say so.
1
The illegal Latinos here are migrant workers, just like they always have been. They do their job, take their money and go home. There is no question of their staying here, they have no legal rights. If they have children while here, they are not citizens. There was no problem until the elitist liberal establishment go in the act and mucked things up by making it "better".
2
bill t, it's the conservative GOP elitist corporate establishment that always turned a blind eye toward the undocumented workforce. GOP elitist corporate establishment.
1
The horror of this is that ~50% of our voting neighbors are going along with this. Who will he want to deport next on his list....the other 50%, me, you?
Or will he just want to keep us in camps "till he figures out what's going on."
Or will he just want to keep us in camps "till he figures out what's going on."
11
If you are in the country illegally, then yes, you will be deported. If you are the U.S.Citizen or LEGAL immigrant, who, like me, followed a law, patiently waited in the line to be legally admitted, you have nothing to worry about.
10
"Who will he want to deport next on his list....the other 50%, me, you?"
Yes, if you are in a country illegally, you should be deported. If you are a U.S. Citizen (born or naturalized) or LEGAL immigrant who, like me, followed a law and waited long time to be admitted to the country legally, you have nothing to worry about.
Yes, if you are in a country illegally, you should be deported. If you are a U.S. Citizen (born or naturalized) or LEGAL immigrant who, like me, followed a law and waited long time to be admitted to the country legally, you have nothing to worry about.
5
Mussolini with hair.
1
The American public simply wants a president that will enforce our laws. Is that too much to ask? Either we have laws or we don't.
If not, open the border and let it flow.
That, clearly, would be suicide.
If you don't have papers, you're out, it's that simple. The president better follow through. His cabinet picks are a good start.
If not, open the border and let it flow.
That, clearly, would be suicide.
If you don't have papers, you're out, it's that simple. The president better follow through. His cabinet picks are a good start.
17
But he's saying now that he'll deport just the "criminals". You may want to read this article more carefully.
So what do we do about the companies that actively recruit and bring people to this country illegally because they can pay them much less? What do we do about a president elect who appears to have violated some of our labor laws to benefit from cheap labour?
1
Crossing Overhead – is it also too much to ask that we have a President who follows the laws himself? We will not have one come Jan 20.
Lets think about this in stages. Are you opposed to deporting 300,000people with felony records? Yes of no? Most Americans are probably most NYT readers would agree. How about other people who commit less serious crimes? Lets evaluate them one by one. Again not too debatable. I'm sorry illegal immigrants aren't the heart and soul of America.
17
What about illegal immigrants who go to war with and nearly exterminate indigenous peoples in order to claim their land? Are they the heart and soul of America?
I cant stand Trump, but Felony criminals -- who are also not USA citizens -- should be deported. That is not a complicated idea. This is not one of your best argued editorials nytimes.
22
I believe this is what the Obama administration has already been doing without a lot of fanfare.
1
Takes about $10000 per person to deport someone x 3 million. The cost to you and me for this plan is roughly $30 billion. Is this best way to spend taxpayer dollars?
8
How much are we spending on them while they are here. EITC, food stamps, etc. All available if they have kids born here. We are paying people to come form Mexcio and have kids.
2
rHow perfectly in tune with Trump's idea of how to return greatness to America! He has just offered Sessions to be the Attorney General. Aren't we all ecstatic about the assurance that this nomination offer? We can all relax, John Lewis no longer needs to fear that we are returning to the 50's. Trump has nominated the person most dedicated to the protection of civil and political rights of everyone, particularly Blacks and Muslims. How many more such splendid nominations are we to expect. The list of the faithful that surrounded him in the campaign is a long one and each will have to rewarded. However, he may squeeze in a few respectable people for show and then declare that he has put together the best cabinet since the founding of the Republic. After all, didn't he just take credit for Ford not going to Mexico when Ford had never said they would. What's a lie or two after the thousands he has uttered.
66
This is just absurd. You're making mountains out of molehill objections -- shortage of immigration courts, indeed. Eisenwhower deported 1-1/2 million illegals and you yourself point out that Obama has deported about as many as Trump promises to.
As to those half a million people who live among us -- because they're here illegally? Don't make me laugh.
This kind of absurdity, in which we are somehow supposed to believe that it's impossible to do something about people who are breaking the law and that deporting illegal immigrants is a "purge" -- is part of what led to the unfortunate election of Donald Trump. I seldom agree with him or with the Republicans, but they would be entirely justified in cutting off federal funding to municipalities that are thumbing their nose at the law. And I'm sorry, but I do not see the protection of law breakers when millions of law-abiding immigrants are waiting patiently to immigrate as a "cherished American ideal." I see it as rewarding crime.
As to those half a million people who live among us -- because they're here illegally? Don't make me laugh.
This kind of absurdity, in which we are somehow supposed to believe that it's impossible to do something about people who are breaking the law and that deporting illegal immigrants is a "purge" -- is part of what led to the unfortunate election of Donald Trump. I seldom agree with him or with the Republicans, but they would be entirely justified in cutting off federal funding to municipalities that are thumbing their nose at the law. And I'm sorry, but I do not see the protection of law breakers when millions of law-abiding immigrants are waiting patiently to immigrate as a "cherished American ideal." I see it as rewarding crime.
66
JH, very agreed The editorial's oddly toned emotionalism doesnt help the argument.
10
So you would turn back the clock sixty years?
Here's to the "glory days" of the 1950s America with black and white TVs, a black and white society, and red scares. I can't wait.
Thanks, but no thanks.
Here's to the "glory days" of the 1950s America with black and white TVs, a black and white society, and red scares. I can't wait.
Thanks, but no thanks.
3
Google Georgia failed harvest.
Did you know that the crime is not in the being here but in the hiring of those who are here?
Did you know that T rump has hired a lot of them over the years?
Did you know that the crime is not in the being here but in the hiring of those who are here?
Did you know that T rump has hired a lot of them over the years?
4
"Immigration is a federal responsibility,..."
The NYT just doesn't want them taking their responsibility too seriously, like actually enforcing our existing immigration laws.
Imagine the gang members, ripped out from under their employer, damaging the US economy. Sheesh.
The NYT just doesn't want them taking their responsibility too seriously, like actually enforcing our existing immigration laws.
Imagine the gang members, ripped out from under their employer, damaging the US economy. Sheesh.
53
Imagine not enough agricultural workers to pick our food supply, construction workers to build our homes and buildings, service workers, landscapers. Etc. Gang members, yes that's a problem but a simple deportation is not the long term fix.
1
Imagine if agricultural work, landscaping and construction paid higher wages and attracted unemployed U.S. citizens instead of being flooded by foreign nationals living here in violation of immigration laws?
1
You are missing the point. Stop taking him so seriously, as he himself has proved he doesn't take himself that way. He will find 10,000 illegals to eject, and have plenty of media and news hype about it, then he can say "I never said 3 million. Bad reporting! I got rid of huge numbers, huge." And the fans will eat it up.
92
Yes, or he will take the 10,000 he deports and multiply by some factor, and call it 780,000!
The only fleck of truth I've read on this page today. His PR technique is symphonic—almost like Aaron Copland's: brass and percussion first, woodwinds next, violins (at 21!) next. Get it? Donald loves to freak people out, then do a 130, or 180 or something. Like the fence that was a wall. Fuzzy Wuzzy was a bear, Fuzzy Wuzzy doesn't care . . . And remember, Donald always gets even with his enemies. So don't be so sure about his "reasons" for hiring some really racially challenged individuals. They may be stepping into their own demise, it seems. He may not be available to help them. Depends on his mood.
It's amazing that people would have to speak out against an idea that is this impractical and stupid.
22
Why don't you want criminals deported?
2
What is amazing is that you don't understand that it is practical and that under President Obama it has been proven it can be done. Admittedly not over night. But then that never was the time frame. There is also the reality that if law enforcement at all levels stops the practice of catch and release there will be a dramatic increase in deportations. That increase may actually lead to the self deportation some Federal lawmakers hoped for. There are a lot of people would prefer a planned, organized exit, an exit that would allow them to return legally in the future, to a process that abruptly disrupts their home life.
Perhaps someone should point out that there are several countries around the world that believe enforcement of their borders is both important and practical.
Stupid is when you see a problem, throw your hands in the air, and refuse to address it.
Perhaps someone should point out that there are several countries around the world that believe enforcement of their borders is both important and practical.
Stupid is when you see a problem, throw your hands in the air, and refuse to address it.
1
"It took the Obama administration eight years to deport 2.5 million immigrants."
That's being responsible, in that the Obama administration was doing its job without making major announcements about it or vilifying immigrants or even those who are being deported.
What the President-Elect has done by his very vocal campaign against illegal immigration is turn certain segments of the population into acting like a bunch of Sheriff Arapios who take the law into their own hands.
The New York Post, of all papers, posted a video of someone abusing an Uber driver because he was or looked like an Arab. http://nyp.st/2g11hah That is right here in New York, not Arizona.
I'm a naturalized American Citizen and I know of instances where people are mouthing off at those who look like immigrants, even if they are born here, such as my children, one of whom was told that Trump will get rid of her kind, though she was born in Queens, as was Trump.
The President-Elect had better scale down his rhetoric and act responsible as his predecessors have done.
Those of us who came here legally are not in favor of illegal immigration, but many of us are also very concerned about what the US has become over the last year during the presidential campaign and are petrified of what it will become under President Trump.
We fear that America, which has always been a beacon of hope, will turn into a bastion of intolerance and prejudice.
That's being responsible, in that the Obama administration was doing its job without making major announcements about it or vilifying immigrants or even those who are being deported.
What the President-Elect has done by his very vocal campaign against illegal immigration is turn certain segments of the population into acting like a bunch of Sheriff Arapios who take the law into their own hands.
The New York Post, of all papers, posted a video of someone abusing an Uber driver because he was or looked like an Arab. http://nyp.st/2g11hah That is right here in New York, not Arizona.
I'm a naturalized American Citizen and I know of instances where people are mouthing off at those who look like immigrants, even if they are born here, such as my children, one of whom was told that Trump will get rid of her kind, though she was born in Queens, as was Trump.
The President-Elect had better scale down his rhetoric and act responsible as his predecessors have done.
Those of us who came here legally are not in favor of illegal immigration, but many of us are also very concerned about what the US has become over the last year during the presidential campaign and are petrified of what it will become under President Trump.
We fear that America, which has always been a beacon of hope, will turn into a bastion of intolerance and prejudice.
743
@RK: Incidents you cite fall into the category of "de la petite histoire" and am sure that if cases of harassment can be substantiated, they would be prosecuted.Incident of cab driver belittled by customer may have been a set up. Uber cabs r not equipped with video cameras. But take the long view. Are we not better off with secure borders and extreme vetting of migrants from the ME in order to prevent the terrorist outrages which have occurred in EU countries, some of which could have been prevented if borders had not been open, and security forces had the means to do their job. Was in Algiers in final days of "Algerie francaise" in 1961-1962 as an observer, where at one juncture more than a dozen people were killed,pieds noirs and Muslims, within one half hour interval, and spoke with survivors of bombing of a popular cafe, l'Otomatic. There is nothing worse than a terrorist outrage.I recognize the Left wants to build a case against TRUMP even though he has not yet been sworn into office.Can't think of anything he has done or said to raise the temperature since being elected. On the contrary.Believe that his badly brought up progeny--two sons who slaughter innocent animals while on safari, and a daughter who is a money grubber, using her father's political success to hawk her clothing and jewelry line--but Trump himself deserves benefit of the doubt, until he proves otherwise.
1
Being more effective we can double that rate is there are illegals to support it. Now it is bad that folks are personally bothering you or your children, mostly ignore it or if it is bad enough use the rule of law to address it.
1
We are, sadly, already far into the turn, RK.
@WalterHETT: Several observations to make on your well written comment. First, you write as a member of the cloth, the clergy,and ur comment reads as a sermon Too many Ricards in my younger days, and thanks to the church, I became a tea totaller.Second Pres.elect has your interests at heart as well as mine, and open borders--"heck let em all in"-- is a policy pernicious to American workers,white and black.Can't blame anyone for wanting to better himself by emigrating, but got to look out for No.1 which is what DT wants us and the country to do. U may decry "Make America great,"but it is a shibboleth taken to heart by many other countries, including China and Russia.Don't you think Putin and the Gang of Four want to make their countries great as well?Third, figure of 2.5 million deportations since 2008 is misleading, since it includes hundreds of thousands turned away at the border. Finally, suggest respectfully that you re read your regional history, and reconsider your animus against the GOP. 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments abolishing slavery,guaranteeing due process and the franchise were passed by Republicans in the wake of the Civil War.MLK's famous speech about judging a man by the content of his character is based on a discourse given by Frederick Douglas generations earlier, and Douglas was a progressive Republican. Time for all of the liberal elites to engage in autocriticism, and suspend judgement of the Pres.elect until he has had a chance to give his proofs.
9
That whole suspending judgement of the President elect is nonsense. Thats what happened in prewar Germany, and millions died becuase it was way to do anything when the Nazia burrowed in. I will not suspend my judgement, I will use it and resist when I see a need to.
2
You're argument about Republicans, especially Frederick Douglas is facetious at best. Teddy Roosevelt would be condemned as a liberal today. The Republicans of today are nothing like the Republicans of Lincoln's time.
2
Since the GOP already purged its progressive wing, I think hearkening back to a bygone era makes no senses. Lincoln is spinning in his grave.
2
So it took Obama 8 years to deport 2.5 million illegal residents and it will take Trump 1 year to do the same. It's the same end result for the broken illegal resident families simply faster. Whwe were all the protests the last 8 years?
7
The deportations were done systematically, methodically, legally, without boastful hot air.
1
I would recommend you visit any conflict zone and see what the logistics of displacing 2.5M people over 8 years Vs 3 million people in 1 year imply.
You want to make it right : the price will be astronomical, just like the wall.
But I guess the US could withdraw from any conventions concerning the dignity of human beings and make cheap camps, pushing people into wagons and bare necessities concerning food, water, health. There is still a process to be applied though so you can not just drive one person at the border, even under a Trump administration (if there is no more due process and rule of law, guess what, it is already time to be in the streets).
If you feel like the people who would visit these camps would deserve it anyway, we may be touching here a fleeting philosophical discord as how one sees the absolute uniqueness of each sentient life and how to protect it in society.
Governing responsibly is an exercise in frustration.
You want to make it right : the price will be astronomical, just like the wall.
But I guess the US could withdraw from any conventions concerning the dignity of human beings and make cheap camps, pushing people into wagons and bare necessities concerning food, water, health. There is still a process to be applied though so you can not just drive one person at the border, even under a Trump administration (if there is no more due process and rule of law, guess what, it is already time to be in the streets).
If you feel like the people who would visit these camps would deserve it anyway, we may be touching here a fleeting philosophical discord as how one sees the absolute uniqueness of each sentient life and how to protect it in society.
Governing responsibly is an exercise in frustration.
1
Trump isn't even in office and already his surrogates are invoking some of the most immoral and shameful episodes in the history of the US, if not the world. We need to stop thinking that these are simply buffoons who stumbled into office. And we need now to recognize the danger of the surveillance state that Bush built and Obama decorated. We need now to regret our non-response to Obama's wild claim that the US govt could assassinate citizens it deems enemies without any semblance of due process. We were told at the time that this terrifying new presidential power would be used with the utmost caution and only in the most extreme cases of national security. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Get ready for new classics like the Diary of Anna Franco, the story of a Mexican girl whose family hid in an underground bunker in Arizona for as long as they could but who were eventually ratted out by their white neighbors...
10
I remain amazed that his supporters credit Trump with any serious policy thinking when he clearly employed these kinds of exaggerations only as campaign rhetoric. The effects from this kind of mass roundup will not only mark us now as having turned a very dangerous corner but will carry us forward into an uncertain future in which we may have lost the essence of our distinct national greatness. One hopes, as Trump seemingly has begun to realize, that he understands that he does not wield dictatorial power and that moderation and compromise are required. Still, many of his chosen advisers will undoubtedly urge him to follow the "boil the frog" approach. We must remain vigilant.
289
Your suggestion is instead that we should behave like the towns people in Blazing Saddles. When confronted with a Sheriff pointing his gun at his own head the move to defend him. In this case these people are here illegally. Any angst visited upon them and their families is their responsibility not ours. While Trump is not a dictator, Obama has already demonstrated that where illegal immigration is concerned the President has extremely broad powers available to him using executive action.
After reading this editorial, it is unclear to me whether the NY Times supports or opposes deporting immigrants who are in the country illegally and are convicted felons. The Times admits that 800,000 such immigrants exist, though I suspect the number is higher, since the Times' source for the number is an organization that advocates on behalf of immigrants. Is the Times quibbling over the number, or do they oppose the policy? If you oppose the policy, then please boldly declare that convicted felons who are in this country illegally should be permitted to stay. If you just disagree about the number, then you should have nothing to worry about, because Trump's own policy will limit deportation to an appropriate number and will prove the 2 to 3 million number to be political posturing.
51
There is no basis for the inference that the Times opposes deporting illegal aliens. This editorial was quite clear that it considers Trump's 2-3 million number to be 1) inaccurate in terms of the number of "people that are criminal and have criminal records, gang members, drug dealers" and 2) an impossible number to deport in his first term.
"because Trump's own policy will limit deportation to an appropriate number "
No, Trump's own policy is what Trump just said. The fact that he would announce that as a goal indicates the unreality of his immigration policy.
"because Trump's own policy will limit deportation to an appropriate number "
No, Trump's own policy is what Trump just said. The fact that he would announce that as a goal indicates the unreality of his immigration policy.
2
How do you know there are more? Trump people make up their own numbers. And no one is going to deport the almost 30,000 illegal Cubans who have been convicted of Crimes but cannot be deported because of the 1966 Cuban Adjustment act.
You hit the nail right on the head. The twisted arguments of the NYT so defy logic that it is clear that liberal rage causes this paper to criticize Trump no matter what he does. The "boy who cried wolf" syndrome continues.
If Trump's estimate of the number of felons is lower that the so called true number, but if he deports far less criminals then isn't that a good thing? Or does the NYT actually support keeping felons that are here illegally in the first place in our communities or in prison at taxpayer expense?
And in terms of the 2-3 ml. estimate that Trump cited, Obama deported the same number over 8 years. If in fact the process takes far longer than "immediately" so be it. If Trump's timeline is unrealistic, then he would have wound up doing the same thing that Obams did. So what?
If Trump's estimate of the number of felons is lower that the so called true number, but if he deports far less criminals then isn't that a good thing? Or does the NYT actually support keeping felons that are here illegally in the first place in our communities or in prison at taxpayer expense?
And in terms of the 2-3 ml. estimate that Trump cited, Obama deported the same number over 8 years. If in fact the process takes far longer than "immediately" so be it. If Trump's timeline is unrealistic, then he would have wound up doing the same thing that Obams did. So what?
2
I oppose the deportation on practical grounds. It will distract the President and our country from more pressing issues.
However if we are a country of laws and people have entered the country illegally then they should be deported. As the father of two legal immigrants I have no sympathy for those that have jumped the line. If, as a law maker or citizen, a person believes that illegal immigrants should be able to enter the country and stay then they should work to have the laws changed to give us "open borders".
Democratic lawmakers want their cake and eat it to, They are opposed to enforcement of our immigration laws but they will not work to change the laws. Why? Because they would lose their seats very quickly to an electorate that is opposed to illegal immigration.
I am a freedom loving American (to quote another poster here) and support enforcement of our law. Those who support our laws are not racists or xenophobic despite what one reads in the editorial pages here (which is a gigantic east coast Democratic echo chamber).
Trump is sending a signal: No more illegal immigration.
However if we are a country of laws and people have entered the country illegally then they should be deported. As the father of two legal immigrants I have no sympathy for those that have jumped the line. If, as a law maker or citizen, a person believes that illegal immigrants should be able to enter the country and stay then they should work to have the laws changed to give us "open borders".
Democratic lawmakers want their cake and eat it to, They are opposed to enforcement of our immigration laws but they will not work to change the laws. Why? Because they would lose their seats very quickly to an electorate that is opposed to illegal immigration.
I am a freedom loving American (to quote another poster here) and support enforcement of our law. Those who support our laws are not racists or xenophobic despite what one reads in the editorial pages here (which is a gigantic east coast Democratic echo chamber).
Trump is sending a signal: No more illegal immigration.
20
It has not been The Democratic congressmen opposing immigration reform. in fact they have been trying to do just that since George W. Bush was in the office back in '05. Proposed new law was opposed every time it was introduced since because of Republican congressmen voting against any changes. It has been the Republicans, not the Democratic congressmen voting for status quo, which in fact is keeping the hypocritical system of servitude Americans prosper from. Same attitude and same fear loosing the cheap illegal workers as with loosing slaves.
1
Except from Cuba where illegals are immediately given all types of benefits and take real jobs from Americans. Go through the Miami airport and see how many government employees, private companies and airlines speak English with a Cuban accent, and examine the hundreds of millions of dollars given to Miami Cuban Mafia by the U.S. government. Trump, as the Democrats, will not deport these people, including those convicted of crimes, because of the 1966 Cuban Adjustment Act.
1
"Those who support our laws are not racists or xenophobic"
-- You have state this incorrectly. One does not need to be a racist or xenophobe to support Trump's promises regarding immigration - but all racists and xenophobes certainly do support them/him.
-- You have state this incorrectly. One does not need to be a racist or xenophobe to support Trump's promises regarding immigration - but all racists and xenophobes certainly do support them/him.
2
"First they'll come for the Mexicans, and I will not speak out. Then they'll come for the Muslims, and I will not speak out ..."
The philosophy of the Trump voter.
The philosophy of the Trump voter.
13
Except, of course, the Trump voters are on the receiving end of the progressive genocide. It's not a war on coal, it's a war on rural cultures. The objective is to destroy cultures that resist the progressive agenda.
I would like to see the factual info. in this piece also be "above the fold" because it is real news, rather than only in the Opinion section.
Factual information, if only seen in the opinion section and not in the "real news" sections, misleads too many people into thinking such facts are only opinions.
Mr. Krugman's columns are also filled with factual information that we rarely see in the news sections (or they are buried in there somewhere).
This may be one reason so many people confuse facts with opinions/beliefs.
Factual information, if only seen in the opinion section and not in the "real news" sections, misleads too many people into thinking such facts are only opinions.
Mr. Krugman's columns are also filled with factual information that we rarely see in the news sections (or they are buried in there somewhere).
This may be one reason so many people confuse facts with opinions/beliefs.
10
Yet another analysis of the ridiculousness of tRump.
He will soon pass Benedict Arnold as the most (internally) hated American ever.
He will soon pass Benedict Arnold as the most (internally) hated American ever.
10
Republicans will gleefully withhold funds from sanctuary cities as part of their strategy of taxing blue voters and spending on red voters. Watch out, city dwellers: a GOP Congress will soon be in session.
56
What, and deprive the red states of the welfare we "sanctuary cities" supply them?
Liberals exactly the people who endangers democracy, when insisting that esoteric "principles" and "values" should prevail over the law. How to deal with emigrants it's a question of law, and not of democracy. Any government has a right to deport illegal emigrants, and there is no international law which prohibits so. The other question, that such deportation should be conducted in a safe manner with respect for human dignity of deportees.
The government which deliberately tolerates numerous violations of law, simply undermines the rule of law, and this is most dangerous what could happen to democracy
Here in Germany we were defenseless against wave of refuges, exactly because mr Merkel violated numerous German and European laws, just for a sake "to be humane". Don't follow our mistakes. Please keep being a beacon of true democracy and respect for law and constitution.
The government which deliberately tolerates numerous violations of law, simply undermines the rule of law, and this is most dangerous what could happen to democracy
Here in Germany we were defenseless against wave of refuges, exactly because mr Merkel violated numerous German and European laws, just for a sake "to be humane". Don't follow our mistakes. Please keep being a beacon of true democracy and respect for law and constitution.
20
Every country that does manage immigration successfully has a national ID system. You'll need that here too if you actually do want to control immigration.
4
It's also a question of what you can practically do. Given that rush job that would be required if you actually tried to deport three million illegal aliens in a few years, you be guaranteed to create an abundance of authoritarian excesses, especially as there aren't that many illegal aliens of the type that Trump describes. It is that headlong rush that threatens the rule of law.
3
I'll bet the nazis were saying similar things to the German people in the 1930-40. Except they were blaming the Jews for their troubles.
Obama has been deporting people throughout his presidency. Deporting criminals is not a new idea and it is not a Repub idea.
Immigrants come here for jobs and the criminals who employ them get a free pass. It is SO much easier to blame the 'wetbacks'.
Those of us who heard the rhetoric of hate from trump will continue to protest his presidency, not based on the color of his skin or his religion but on his
Policies.
Obama has been deporting people throughout his presidency. Deporting criminals is not a new idea and it is not a Repub idea.
Immigrants come here for jobs and the criminals who employ them get a free pass. It is SO much easier to blame the 'wetbacks'.
Those of us who heard the rhetoric of hate from trump will continue to protest his presidency, not based on the color of his skin or his religion but on his
Policies.
2
I am wondering how long it will take for Trump voters to express buyers' remorse. Considering the specter he's created about draconian expuslsion of immigrants and the ultranationalist people he's considering for crucial administration positions, it may happen even before he's inaugurated.
4
Get ready for a real inquisition when that antebellum overseer from Alabama becomes AG.
I seriously doubt Trump's "True Believers" are ever capable of admitting they were conned by this guy and all his empty, thoughtless promises to "Make Americans Feel Great About Themselves". Eight years from now, Trump's supporters will find some imaginary conspiracy to defend Trump and the Republican Party no matter how much "The American People" aren't any better off than they were before they elected him.
Deportation based purely on felony convictions should not involve extensive hearings. Either there was a felony conviction or there was not.
21
I have no doubt that the truth will lie somewhere in the middle, as it always does.
That certainly did not prevent Hillary Clinton from promising "free college for all Americans" or "affordable health care".
When you support a candidate, you will yourself right through the incoherence. So it is with demagogues, and Bernie and Donald really drove our national narrative. For every White "crazy" that the MSM features from a Trump rally, we now see playing out as "protests" by those who fell into a Sanders trance. These groups of angry people are complements in an American argument that will not brook compromise when an opposing group is pushing for something completely opposite their strongly held view.
John Nash, the brilliant Princeton mathematician and economist, published much about "game theory" and how human beings negotiate and react to each other's moves. We would all be wise to read some of his work, because the intransigence that has gripped our nation, and really the world, is a reflection of two polar sides digging in deeper to beliefs to counteract their strongest opposition.
The fact that the Editorial Board is hyper-ventilating about deportation says more about its deepest instincts and desires and less about what Trump will actually do. And the fact that you print these opinions, day after day, signals your intentions to your "audience", increasing the volume inside your echo chamber.
If you moderated, Trump and the rest of the country would, also.
That certainly did not prevent Hillary Clinton from promising "free college for all Americans" or "affordable health care".
When you support a candidate, you will yourself right through the incoherence. So it is with demagogues, and Bernie and Donald really drove our national narrative. For every White "crazy" that the MSM features from a Trump rally, we now see playing out as "protests" by those who fell into a Sanders trance. These groups of angry people are complements in an American argument that will not brook compromise when an opposing group is pushing for something completely opposite their strongly held view.
John Nash, the brilliant Princeton mathematician and economist, published much about "game theory" and how human beings negotiate and react to each other's moves. We would all be wise to read some of his work, because the intransigence that has gripped our nation, and really the world, is a reflection of two polar sides digging in deeper to beliefs to counteract their strongest opposition.
The fact that the Editorial Board is hyper-ventilating about deportation says more about its deepest instincts and desires and less about what Trump will actually do. And the fact that you print these opinions, day after day, signals your intentions to your "audience", increasing the volume inside your echo chamber.
If you moderated, Trump and the rest of the country would, also.
11
Most first world countries have healthcare as a right for their citizens, unlike the US which considers healthcare not a right for all but a commodity available only to those who can afford it.
Many first world countries have free higher education....
See Germany.
These things are not pie in the sky but they are progressive and would afford more of our citizens the right to health and happiness. A living wage would be nice too.
The trumpite winners should be doing the moderating and 'uniting'
Many first world countries have free higher education....
See Germany.
These things are not pie in the sky but they are progressive and would afford more of our citizens the right to health and happiness. A living wage would be nice too.
The trumpite winners should be doing the moderating and 'uniting'
Perhaps only a small number (although the statistic you report, nearly 10 percent, seems substantial enough) of illegal aliens is made up of criminals. How the Institute you cite arrives at that figure is unclear, and you don't seem troubled to find out.
But I suspect the bigger point reflects the fact that you struggle so hard to hide the term "illegal aliens." They are people here illegally. Every day they are here they are in violation of the law. You write "they pose no threat." So what. Neither do I if I choose not to pay my income taxes. I suspect you would heartily endorse the full weight of the federal govenment coming down on me in that instance.
The problem with removal of illegal aliens is not that it can't be done. It is that those, such as yourself, with hidden agendas simply don't want it to happen. Which is part of why your candidate lost.
But I suspect the bigger point reflects the fact that you struggle so hard to hide the term "illegal aliens." They are people here illegally. Every day they are here they are in violation of the law. You write "they pose no threat." So what. Neither do I if I choose not to pay my income taxes. I suspect you would heartily endorse the full weight of the federal govenment coming down on me in that instance.
The problem with removal of illegal aliens is not that it can't be done. It is that those, such as yourself, with hidden agendas simply don't want it to happen. Which is part of why your candidate lost.
24
If you're a non-citizen, you can't vote, so let's dispel that inane myth. The hypocracy is shameless, of people like Trump and Romney hiring undocumented workers because it's economical, and then preaching lawfullness. I like the Instagram meme of Michelle Obama hiolding a sign that reads: "My job is being taken over by an immigrant." It's a complex problem with no easy or perfect fix, and money will dictate if Trump can deport more than Obama's 2.5million.
1
The deportation of illegals has been happening continually and would go even faster if the Congress appropriated more money for the process. Trump doesn't pay taxes, by the way. Can we have the Government make more of an effort to go after him?
1
"In 2013, ICE published estimates indicating that approximately 900,000 aliens were arrested for crimes every year; that approximately 550,000 criminal aliens convicted of crimes exited law enforcement custody every year;and that 1.9 million removable criminal aliens currently resided in the United States."
Sorry but note the 'every year' numbers and that math legitimately gets to 3 million. We would know for sure if our current administration were actually transparent about the real numbers instead politically expedient.
https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/R44627.pdf
Sorry but note the 'every year' numbers and that math legitimately gets to 3 million. We would know for sure if our current administration were actually transparent about the real numbers instead politically expedient.
https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/R44627.pdf
16
Sorry, but the quote you've given specifically states that 1.9 million removable criminal aliens currently reside in the U.S., not 3 million. Further, that deals with all criminal aliens while the editorial deals with illegal aliens. The FAS report you link to states that illegal aliens are about half of U.S. non-citizens, which would bring the number to 950,000--close to the Migration Policy Institute's estimate of 820,000.
2
A comment about jobs - just read in the WSJ that the Stick & Brick home building industry is finally moving over to assembling factory ready on site to build a house (they have resisted for years, preferring to build from materials on site). The reason is not enough skilled workers. There are many factories in CT that are desperate for skilled workers (which is why the graduates from the manufacturing programs at the community colleges have a 100% placement rate). The unskilled jobs go unfilled too. There is a reason only illegal immigrants take them One of the biggest complaints against immigrants is "they take our jobs". The evidence says otherwise.
33
Well you missed the subtext apparently. They are desperate for skilled workers who will work for unskilled worker wages and they probably expect unskilled workers to work for free for the experience or something.
Just ask them how much these companies that are "desperate" have increased wages and benefits lately (the time tested way to get more and better qualified workers).
Just ask them how much these companies that are "desperate" have increased wages and benefits lately (the time tested way to get more and better qualified workers).
Donald Trump likes to go to restaurants like "21."
Anybody who knows anything about restaurants, knows that the instant you go into the kitchen you will meet people who have come to the U.S. from abroad, quite possibly from Mexico and south of Mexico.
Late at night, I often pass by a very top end restaurant in a building with "Trump" on the front, and the immaculate kitchen is open to view from the street.
Every single person doing a superb job of keeping that kitchen immaculate could be identified as Latino, or perhaps Quechua.
I wonder how zealous people like Trump will be about immigration when it comes to their expectation of excellent service at fine restaurants?
Anybody who knows anything about restaurants, knows that the instant you go into the kitchen you will meet people who have come to the U.S. from abroad, quite possibly from Mexico and south of Mexico.
Late at night, I often pass by a very top end restaurant in a building with "Trump" on the front, and the immaculate kitchen is open to view from the street.
Every single person doing a superb job of keeping that kitchen immaculate could be identified as Latino, or perhaps Quechua.
I wonder how zealous people like Trump will be about immigration when it comes to their expectation of excellent service at fine restaurants?
16
I'm sure Mr. Trump is happy they are working. So am I but only if here legally.
5
So Trump thinks the military leaders are stupid to announce their plans months in advance, and let the enemy know what's coming, with time to make their own plans.
Then he goes and announces his own plans to target immigrants with criminal records first - months before he even ascends to the Presidency.
Any guesses as to what his "enemy" will be doing in the ensuing months, before he gets his boots on the ground?
Think they're breaking old patterns and moving to new places and getting new work to make them harder for the troops to find? Think some are sliding back over the border only to slide back over the fence at will when the heat is off? Think they're burrowing in, finding literal cover, building hidey holes and fake floors and making plans with friends and family and community to shuttle them and hide them and lie for them when the Deportation Forces come knocking?
And, since they can't work or go to school or make themselves known openly, how do you think they'll be living? In the shadows, in the dark, with the profits of their crimes.
Those 300,000 felons who have made it here have street smarts, at least, and when cornered, can be even more dangerous and violent.
Great first move on our immigration situation, Trump.
Then he goes and announces his own plans to target immigrants with criminal records first - months before he even ascends to the Presidency.
Any guesses as to what his "enemy" will be doing in the ensuing months, before he gets his boots on the ground?
Think they're breaking old patterns and moving to new places and getting new work to make them harder for the troops to find? Think some are sliding back over the border only to slide back over the fence at will when the heat is off? Think they're burrowing in, finding literal cover, building hidey holes and fake floors and making plans with friends and family and community to shuttle them and hide them and lie for them when the Deportation Forces come knocking?
And, since they can't work or go to school or make themselves known openly, how do you think they'll be living? In the shadows, in the dark, with the profits of their crimes.
Those 300,000 felons who have made it here have street smarts, at least, and when cornered, can be even more dangerous and violent.
Great first move on our immigration situation, Trump.
8
Post Truth.......a new word/phrase meaning ....media spin....is taking hold
and should be forcefully rejected and called : LIES which are accepted as
TRUTH...
There is no such thing as a LIE which is TRUTH...
and...I think that accepting the ethic of LIE as TRUTH...must be debated and
scourged out of journalism...NOW ...please do so editors ...so that we
can believe in the FOURTH ESTATE..and all the news that is fit (meaning
fact checked and truthful)...because this is the story Editors ...we need YOU
the Fourth Estate to be vigilante about the POST TRUTH i.e. outright LIES
which are accepted as NEWS...speak UP....ASAP
and should be forcefully rejected and called : LIES which are accepted as
TRUTH...
There is no such thing as a LIE which is TRUTH...
and...I think that accepting the ethic of LIE as TRUTH...must be debated and
scourged out of journalism...NOW ...please do so editors ...so that we
can believe in the FOURTH ESTATE..and all the news that is fit (meaning
fact checked and truthful)...because this is the story Editors ...we need YOU
the Fourth Estate to be vigilante about the POST TRUTH i.e. outright LIES
which are accepted as NEWS...speak UP....ASAP
7
Could not agree more! This is where the resistance must come from. Everyone must become aware of the "banality of evil". It's what's taking hold right now.
2
For any such action, here deportation of alleged criminals, due process of law is fundamental. Largely, they are economic migrants, those who are in search of opportunities to make a better living.
Politically, more fundamental is to promote a peaceful, harmonious, understanding society, a cooperative commonwealth, ultimately. It should happen in India as well as in the US.
Politically, more fundamental is to promote a peaceful, harmonious, understanding society, a cooperative commonwealth, ultimately. It should happen in India as well as in the US.
2
Only the NYTs can make a claim that deporting illegal alien criminals is somehow daunting or even immoral.
It is neither. The more you deport, the less strain on the states and municipalities in terms of lost opportunity costs, infrastructure, the criminal justice system, etc.
This is the proverbial "no brainer". And it is a winning argument with anyone not living in a NYC ivory tower.
It is neither. The more you deport, the less strain on the states and municipalities in terms of lost opportunity costs, infrastructure, the criminal justice system, etc.
This is the proverbial "no brainer". And it is a winning argument with anyone not living in a NYC ivory tower.
20
This is what the country voted for: President as dictator, making America safe for white people who benefited the most from the Black President's 3.9% unemployment rate, the same Black President who tried to put more of them back to work with infrastructure repair.
This is what the country voted for: a man who would like to turn the country into Erdogan's Turkey, purging the "bad" elements who disagree with him and jailing the reporters who dare challenge him.
We must begin to fight him at the first sign of moves like this against immigrants and it looks like the Supreme Court, conservative leaning and all, must take a stand against what is surly nothing less than tyranny.
This is what the country voted for: a man who would like to turn the country into Erdogan's Turkey, purging the "bad" elements who disagree with him and jailing the reporters who dare challenge him.
We must begin to fight him at the first sign of moves like this against immigrants and it looks like the Supreme Court, conservative leaning and all, must take a stand against what is surly nothing less than tyranny.
25
Thank you. I have been reading the comments and wondering if there was anyone with any sense left.
1
thank you for speaking up so soon!
1
Go after business owners illegally doing the hiring. No jobs, no influx of people coming to work. So simple, why isn't this being discussed????
1907. Title 8, U.S.C. 1324(a) makes clear that anyone employing or contracting with an illegal alien without verifying his work authorization status is guilty of a misdemeanor. Aliens and employers violating immigration laws are subject to arrest, detention, and seizure of their vehicles or property. In addition, individuals or entities who engage in racketeering enterprises that commit (or conspire to commit) immigration-related felonies are subject to private civil suits for treble damages and injunctive relief.
1907. Title 8, U.S.C. 1324(a) makes clear that anyone employing or contracting with an illegal alien without verifying his work authorization status is guilty of a misdemeanor. Aliens and employers violating immigration laws are subject to arrest, detention, and seizure of their vehicles or property. In addition, individuals or entities who engage in racketeering enterprises that commit (or conspire to commit) immigration-related felonies are subject to private civil suits for treble damages and injunctive relief.
35
And if one or more of DJT's golf courses, hotels, restaurants, building management companies, etc. employs illegal aliens, shall we demand that he be arrested?
1
It's not being discussed because the GOP donors are the ones who want the cheap labor of unoducmented workers. Period.
1
That would mean Trump would need to prosecute his cronies and his own organization which ain't going to happen
1
Immigrants and non whites will start moving to the safe haven cities out of fear. Especially from the red states. Cities will need to adapt further.
2
They are welcome to move to Pound Ridge or Bedford or the Hamptons.
I can hear the screams of horror now.
I can hear the screams of horror now.
2
I would really like to see what Trump's definition of "due process" is.
Can we get a Sunday morning TV show to ask him?
Can we get a Sunday morning TV show to ask him?
5
Once again, the Times' editorial board is on the wrong side of an issue the American people have voted to implement. This is not a witch-hunt or an unjustified roundup but a sane, helpful and hopeful policy the people (remember them?) want. I'm not worried about the guy that cuts my grass but the guy who wants to cut my neck. Too many ruthless cartel and MS-13 gang members are living among us and committing their crimes of violence, often random and senseless. We have a right and duty to protect our sovereignty just as all other countries have a similar right. Big corporations and special interests like the Times relies on cheap labor to keep their failing industries alive. They exploit the immigrant communities for their own benefit and then lie to us about the motive. Hypocrites all, I say, hypocrites all! Shame!
20
Um, a million more Americans (at last count) voted against the "policy" than voted for it. If you really want a true example of a company that "relies on cheap labor to keep their failing industries alive. They exploit the immigrant communities for their own benefit and then lie to us about the motive," check out Trump Models, Inc., NY, NY. It even includes 13 and 14-year olds from Eastern Europe.
4
There is nothing sane about a policy that isn't grounded in facts. There simply aren't three million illegal aliens with criminal records and the idea that he can just deport that many in his first term is simply ludicrous. The issue isn't getting rid of the felons as a first priority, that is currently the policy, but the fact-free numbers given by the President-elect.
4
If the people wanted a more rigorous, assertive, pro-active policy to more rapidly eject the illegal, why didn't the GOP Congress give the agencies enough money to do so?
Obama, having less than he needed, pushed deporting criminals and lessening the effort to deport families of hard-working people.
And you folks rejected that. (Of course, now with the GOP in charge, budget deficits won't be a problem anymore, so maybe ICE can get all the money it needs.)
Obama, having less than he needed, pushed deporting criminals and lessening the effort to deport families of hard-working people.
And you folks rejected that. (Of course, now with the GOP in charge, budget deficits won't be a problem anymore, so maybe ICE can get all the money it needs.)
3
The NYT vendetta against Trump and any and everything he says is getting old. Haven't you learned yet from your crusade against him during the elections? Why do you think that continuing this now is at all helpful? I understand the Democrats are sore losers, unable to grasp that there are people capable of reading the election ballot who would vote differently than they do but it gets old.
As to the illegal immigrants;there is zero reason for any illegal immigrants to remain in this country. They are not fleeing genocide nor seeking asylum. They are here for economic purposes, which while understandable, doesn't give them the legal right to remain here. So yes, I'd say he is right to want to round them up and deport them. If they will be valuable to this country they can apply for legal immigration from their home country.
And as for those liberals who cry that if we deport the illegals who will do all the dirty work; the hard nasty low paid jobs with terrible working conditions that "no American" will want to do? What does that say about how liberals really view Hispanics and other illegal immigrants? That they view them solely as fit to do the nasty jobs "real Americans" won't and shouldn't have to do?
As to the illegal immigrants;there is zero reason for any illegal immigrants to remain in this country. They are not fleeing genocide nor seeking asylum. They are here for economic purposes, which while understandable, doesn't give them the legal right to remain here. So yes, I'd say he is right to want to round them up and deport them. If they will be valuable to this country they can apply for legal immigration from their home country.
And as for those liberals who cry that if we deport the illegals who will do all the dirty work; the hard nasty low paid jobs with terrible working conditions that "no American" will want to do? What does that say about how liberals really view Hispanics and other illegal immigrants? That they view them solely as fit to do the nasty jobs "real Americans" won't and shouldn't have to do?
15
greenie, let me answer your last question first. We Democrats view Hispanics as extremely hard workers with an amazing work ethic. In other words, we respect them. Time will tell whether any of our folks can or will fill these jobs while accepting little pay or unsafe working conditions. Continuing to question the outcome of this election is necessary because there is still so much unknown about this administration. If you are a white middle to upper clas white male Christian to you the election is over, move along, nothing to see here. For the rest of us, Trump's campaign rhetoric leaves a great deal of concern. I want to know what my future and that of my children and grandchildren holds. Maybe you have no worries but I certainly do.
4
Now that wasn't nice, greenie, to point out the discrimination that the liberal and esteemed Editorial Board seems to exude.
Well said, sir.
Well said, sir.
3
Trump's threat to toss out 3 Million people from the USA is scary and foolish for all the reasons in this article. A great number of the Hispanics involved in Trump's target group must be Catholics. Other Catholics surly voted for him since he is nominally "anti-abortion and pro-life." Yet this threat to toss out so any immigrants who do not have legal status is very anti-Catholic. It is not in line with the views of the world's most popular person - Pope Francis. His view of human value is far different than Trump's. For Pope Francis "pro-life" means all live! Trump's position on immigration and laissez-faire capitalism is contrary to Catholic doctrine because is treats life as an object. Which leads to this question: why did so many white Catholics vote for him when he is nominally anti-abortion yet anti-life in so many other areas of human struggle? When Trump meets Pope Francis what is he going to say? "Trust me?"
3
We all know how Donald Trump regards numbers and other forms of reality. He is not constrained by numbers: 3 million, 300,0000, what's the difference?
Like the baseless pronouncements of his personal wealth, numbers and other components of reality are to be shaped to his will.
Like the baseless pronouncements of his personal wealth, numbers and other components of reality are to be shaped to his will.
16
The tyrannical, opressive government that we were told we would have to resist one day has arrived in the form of Donald Trump's presidency. Listen carefully to what he and his minions say, make your own plans to defend yourself, and don't be fooled into complacency.
409
Make plans to defend not only yourself, but also those who may be swept up in the frenzy of clearing out the "undesirables". Hmmm, where have we heard this before?
1
No we already have a national government that interferes with our lives, and allows illegals to take jobs that citizens should have. Citizens don't have anything to fear, but things to look forward to.
1
It's beginning to look like a mixture of "Brave New World" and "1984."
1
First they come for the immigrants, then they come for the Muslims, then they come for the LGBTs, and then........... When do they come for me?
17
"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
Forgive me if I still believe even a Trump voter might learn from history. I'm an optimist.
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
Forgive me if I still believe even a Trump voter might learn from history. I'm an optimist.
52
Not gonna happen. But I admire your optimism. We area ll going to need that quality if we are not to collapse under the weight of our fear.
Care to comment on the Second Amendment, Mr. Henry?
1
Trump and his allies have to realize that if he wants to take our country backwards towards the 50's or rather to the year of 1942 when not only Japanese citizens but also German and Italians citizens were rounded up and put in the concentration camps by FDR, then he should take off his rose colored glasses and face the reality.
No way American people,especially the 65+ million voters who voted for Hillary and millions of Bernie's supporters who didn't vote, are not going to sit down and watch with horror of Trump's fulfilling of his campaign promises of deporting 11 million 'undocumented workers' and building a registry for the Muslim American citizens.
Trump can very well expect to see thousands if not millions of people protesting on the streets of New York and San Francisco and all other major cities and towns showing their constitutionally granted rights of 'free assembly' and expressing their 'freedom of speech' against his draconian rules of uprooting families from the cities and towns and deporting them nowhere as Mexican Govt. is not going to accept any of these deportees inside their country.
They'll stop these buses right at the U.S.-Mexico border and either force Trump's chartered buses to turn around or leave them at the border indefinitely, with the deportees inside.
And with Bernie declaring yesterday in one of his post election rallies that "There will be no 'mass deportation' and 'no Muslim Registry', Trump better pay attention to what Bernie says or else.
No way American people,especially the 65+ million voters who voted for Hillary and millions of Bernie's supporters who didn't vote, are not going to sit down and watch with horror of Trump's fulfilling of his campaign promises of deporting 11 million 'undocumented workers' and building a registry for the Muslim American citizens.
Trump can very well expect to see thousands if not millions of people protesting on the streets of New York and San Francisco and all other major cities and towns showing their constitutionally granted rights of 'free assembly' and expressing their 'freedom of speech' against his draconian rules of uprooting families from the cities and towns and deporting them nowhere as Mexican Govt. is not going to accept any of these deportees inside their country.
They'll stop these buses right at the U.S.-Mexico border and either force Trump's chartered buses to turn around or leave them at the border indefinitely, with the deportees inside.
And with Bernie declaring yesterday in one of his post election rallies that "There will be no 'mass deportation' and 'no Muslim Registry', Trump better pay attention to what Bernie says or else.
12
NotJoeMcCarthy, or else what? Outline for me the action that will be taken by citizens to mitigate the debacle that is a Trump presidency. Half the eligible electorate doesn't even vote. That might be a good thing because we don't know how many of them have been infected by the "fake news" rage. I'm all ears, so let me know the details about "or else" and I'll show up with bells on.
1
Unlike the World War II internment, the deportation of illegal immigrants doesn't involve U.S. citizens. It involves only foreign nationals unlawfully present within our borders. According to ABC News, President Obama deported 2.5 million illegal immigrants from 2009 through 2015. Mexico accepted those who were Mexican citizens without complaint.
3
Also here, across the pond, I shudder at the thought of purging and deporting people who have lives and loves: people who all live under the same moon and the same stars on this earth.
250
Those here illegally need to find another moon and stars in a another country to live under.
3
Shudder away, Nanna.
The United States is not bound by your thoughts, and your attempt to interfere with our domestic politics is as offensive as Barack Obama's injecting himself in the the domestic affairs of other countries.
The United States is not bound by your thoughts, and your attempt to interfere with our domestic politics is as offensive as Barack Obama's injecting himself in the the domestic affairs of other countries.
4
Why don't you invite the 13 million to come live in Denmark?
2
This is not America.
127
Yes, it is. The majority of Americans believe that immigration is a process and that to circumvent the process is illegal.
American immigration laws are not as stringent as the laws of the country to the South - Mexico - or the laws of the country to the North - Canada.
American immigration laws are not as stringent as the laws of the country to the South - Mexico - or the laws of the country to the North - Canada.
6
It is until WE change it, David.
Who are you, sir, to define what is and is not America.
Your hubris in attempting to speak for us all is offensive, sir.
Your hubris in attempting to speak for us all is offensive, sir.
4
"Like many of his proposals, this one sounds tough and straightforward, but makes no sense under scrutiny and is frightening to think about."
Lets prepare ourselves to the P. T. Barnum version of the Federal Government.
The question at hand is, what will the Democrats propose that is different? HRC's proposals assumed a reasonably effective Federal Government, ,making and implementing timely and relevant policy.
Neither version has made sense to the electorate. Will we simply muddle along waiting for the next crisis to shift leadership from the ranks of the jaded Boomers to the next generations?
We'll see.
Lets prepare ourselves to the P. T. Barnum version of the Federal Government.
The question at hand is, what will the Democrats propose that is different? HRC's proposals assumed a reasonably effective Federal Government, ,making and implementing timely and relevant policy.
Neither version has made sense to the electorate. Will we simply muddle along waiting for the next crisis to shift leadership from the ranks of the jaded Boomers to the next generations?
We'll see.
You call the foreign visitors here who decide to live in this country "unauthorized immigrants," as though they only need our government's immigration officials to issue a permit for their residence. You make the government responsible for the lack of authority on the legal status of the immigrant living here, as though the immigrant's status has nothing to do with the immigrant's decision breaking our laws.
Using your logic our Bureau of Land Management would be responsible for "Unauthorized cattle rancher's"livestock grazing freely on government lands, or responsible for"unauthorized" homeless citizens squatting on government land to build homes there. The ranchers and squatters then would have no responsibility for breaking our laws because the Bureau failed to issue them permission to use the land.
Stop the newspeak euphemism "unauthorized" because all of the visa violators here are illegal ---- all 11 million "unauthorized immigrants" have broken our laws. Would you now call bank robberies "unauthorized" withdrawals by "unauthorized customers," street gang drug dealers "unlicensed pharmacists"?
Using your logic our Bureau of Land Management would be responsible for "Unauthorized cattle rancher's"livestock grazing freely on government lands, or responsible for"unauthorized" homeless citizens squatting on government land to build homes there. The ranchers and squatters then would have no responsibility for breaking our laws because the Bureau failed to issue them permission to use the land.
Stop the newspeak euphemism "unauthorized" because all of the visa violators here are illegal ---- all 11 million "unauthorized immigrants" have broken our laws. Would you now call bank robberies "unauthorized" withdrawals by "unauthorized customers," street gang drug dealers "unlicensed pharmacists"?
14
Of course they would. Who is to stop them ? Websters dictionary?
First they came for my language....no one stopped them
Then they came for my dictionary.....no one stopped them
Third they came for my country.....Who could stop them?
Then they came for me....And no one was here to help me
First they came for my language....no one stopped them
Then they came for my dictionary.....no one stopped them
Third they came for my country.....Who could stop them?
Then they came for me....And no one was here to help me
4
Think about it. There are so many categories and levels of fear in this country because Donald Trump was elected President.
Immigrants are scared. Families of immigrants are scared. Seniors are scared because their Medicare as they have known it may change. Women are scared because they may not even be able to have control over their very own bodies. People who wish peace in the world are scared because a loose cannon has been placed at the helm for our military. Those who have purchased a means to protect themselves from untoward healthcare, an Affordable Care Act product, are scared because they are threatened that means will be taken away. Those that want to preserve our environment are scared because the man in charge thinks of climate change as hogwash. That's just a few.
Instead of being able to have a feeling of well being and security, this election has done the opposite. And when people fear, it opens the door for bad things to happen. Turmoil in the Towers, day after day as the newbies march in to pass muster, to get the stark promotion, to plead their case. Those marching in on 5th have not always been people to ward off fear, but are more apt to instill it even further.
And this coming week, Thanksgiving. We never realized before what it was like to be thankful for just having a president who did not instill fear. How backwards is that?
Immigrants are scared. Families of immigrants are scared. Seniors are scared because their Medicare as they have known it may change. Women are scared because they may not even be able to have control over their very own bodies. People who wish peace in the world are scared because a loose cannon has been placed at the helm for our military. Those who have purchased a means to protect themselves from untoward healthcare, an Affordable Care Act product, are scared because they are threatened that means will be taken away. Those that want to preserve our environment are scared because the man in charge thinks of climate change as hogwash. That's just a few.
Instead of being able to have a feeling of well being and security, this election has done the opposite. And when people fear, it opens the door for bad things to happen. Turmoil in the Towers, day after day as the newbies march in to pass muster, to get the stark promotion, to plead their case. Those marching in on 5th have not always been people to ward off fear, but are more apt to instill it even further.
And this coming week, Thanksgiving. We never realized before what it was like to be thankful for just having a president who did not instill fear. How backwards is that?
182
None of DT's big ideas promoted during the campaign made any sense to me. They may have seemed promising to blue collar workers left behind by technology or seemed satisfying to deplorables, but there was no reality to them. From the look of his contrasting appointments to his administration, it appears he is going to wing it--that he has no real plan for anything. His apparent wish to collude with the tyrants of the world, especially the Russians, does seem sincere, but collude with them at what?
6
What about the rights of citizens whose lives are diminished by this huge influx of non-citizens. You never hear about that, do you? Do their lives not matter?
19
America has always been enriched by the hard work and dreams of its immigrants. A country that demeans immigrants is not America.
Where did your family come from, by the way?
Where did your family come from, by the way?
8
Lynn, I don't know where Scott's family came from, nor do I know where your family came from. My family came to America from Ireland and England as legal immigrants.
But here's the issue: did you or your family come to America legally?
The USA has immigration laws. If you believe in open borders, work to change our laws. If you believe in free trade, work to change our laws. Hillary Clinton stated in a speech (at a major Wall Street investment firm where she as paid $250K - $300K) that she supported open borders and free trade.
One of the major issues of the 2016 election was The Economy. The message of Bill Clinton't election in 1992 was, "It's The Economy, Stupid". His wife forgot the message that took her family into the White House.
Of course, both Clintons concentrated on their own personal economy, with President Clinton getting NAFTA passed and Candidate Clinton supporting TPP.
One thing to count on in an election: Unless the economy is going well for the majority of American families, the message is always going to be: IT'S THE ECONOMY, STUPID.
But here's the issue: did you or your family come to America legally?
The USA has immigration laws. If you believe in open borders, work to change our laws. If you believe in free trade, work to change our laws. Hillary Clinton stated in a speech (at a major Wall Street investment firm where she as paid $250K - $300K) that she supported open borders and free trade.
One of the major issues of the 2016 election was The Economy. The message of Bill Clinton't election in 1992 was, "It's The Economy, Stupid". His wife forgot the message that took her family into the White House.
Of course, both Clintons concentrated on their own personal economy, with President Clinton getting NAFTA passed and Candidate Clinton supporting TPP.
One thing to count on in an election: Unless the economy is going well for the majority of American families, the message is always going to be: IT'S THE ECONOMY, STUPID.
8
these would be illegal aliens that come over the border, take american jobs, use american resources like the hospital system that lots of native born americans are not able to use? If you want to know why trump won the election it is exactly this ridiculous mindset that is the reason. i am not without compassion for the situation of people in mexico, but their people are their country's responsibility, not americans. We can have a separate conversation about how many people to let in and under what circumstance, but clearly our country is not able to control its borders when you have million of people here that are illegal. They cross, and then have children, clouding the situation because their children are now citizens, they they want to force you to let them stay because the situation is so complex you can't deport them without creating chaos. This is why we need a physical barrier to prevent them from entering in the first place. who among us would leave for work and not lock the front door? this is the same mindset that our county needs to have and for the very same reason.
14
Mass deportation in the Trump model is busing the first Mexican's he encounters to the bank of the rio Grande and he yell's swim or die. No muss, no fuss, just swim or die.
Editorial board, I don't think Donald Trump plans to either "build a wall" or throw millions out of the country. He's not a very bright guy--he never was--but he simply needed a hook to get into the Republican primaries. He said what he knew many wanted to hear; he lit the fuse and on November 8 the keg exploded.
Now he's stuck with the promise of doing the impossible. He knew that his rabid followers were as clueless as he is. Now, the rubber meets the road and the whole world's watching. It isn't in his psychological make-up to admit error or lack of foresight. He'll ignore the problem and shift; it worked so well as he took down far more experienced rivals: a handful of governors and ex-governors, senators, congressmen.
Trump will bleed the national treasury the way a dog chases a car. He may, on a good day, catch up to it, but what then? Republicans in Congress said "no" to President Obama who wanted to close down Guantánamo. They feared that terrorist prisoners would be let loose among the population. So where will these two or three million undocumented be quartered and maintained while an overburdened, understaffed bureaucracy begins to deal with just this single issue with so many others requiring urgent attention?
People need to wake up to the stark fact that Trump never meant a thing that he said. He now has what he wanted: a national office with which to promote and disseminate his personal brand for personal profit.
All else is for losers. That means you.
Now he's stuck with the promise of doing the impossible. He knew that his rabid followers were as clueless as he is. Now, the rubber meets the road and the whole world's watching. It isn't in his psychological make-up to admit error or lack of foresight. He'll ignore the problem and shift; it worked so well as he took down far more experienced rivals: a handful of governors and ex-governors, senators, congressmen.
Trump will bleed the national treasury the way a dog chases a car. He may, on a good day, catch up to it, but what then? Republicans in Congress said "no" to President Obama who wanted to close down Guantánamo. They feared that terrorist prisoners would be let loose among the population. So where will these two or three million undocumented be quartered and maintained while an overburdened, understaffed bureaucracy begins to deal with just this single issue with so many others requiring urgent attention?
People need to wake up to the stark fact that Trump never meant a thing that he said. He now has what he wanted: a national office with which to promote and disseminate his personal brand for personal profit.
All else is for losers. That means you.
138
This editorial bears an eerie resemblance to a white paper outlining the strategy for a guerrilla legal war against the President-elect of the United States. No prior chief executive, it is safe to say, ever provoked the creation of such a document. We have entered uncharted waters, and, as the cartographers of the age of exploration warned, there be monsters here.
Whether we compare Trump to a mindless sea monster or to a thoughtless CEO, obsessed with his own power, his tendency to act before he thinks makes him a threat to the well-being of Americans. His wild promises about immigration during the campaign, unmoored to any knowledge of the facts, stirred outrage but caused no direct harm. As president, however, he will exercise the power to wreck the lives of millions of people. Hence the need for a strategy to contain the damage.
Trump's other vicious or harebrained campaign promises will require the development of similar methods to frustrate, at least in part, an agenda which targets large groups of Americans as threats to public order. The creation of an index of Muslims and the development of a nationwide stop-and-frisk policy pose the same kinds of risks to a free society as the new president's immigration proposals.
So, instead of welcoming a new president in anticipation of his efforts to improve the country, we have to plot against him, in hopes that we can limit the harm he will do. Next stop, the Twilight Zone.
Whether we compare Trump to a mindless sea monster or to a thoughtless CEO, obsessed with his own power, his tendency to act before he thinks makes him a threat to the well-being of Americans. His wild promises about immigration during the campaign, unmoored to any knowledge of the facts, stirred outrage but caused no direct harm. As president, however, he will exercise the power to wreck the lives of millions of people. Hence the need for a strategy to contain the damage.
Trump's other vicious or harebrained campaign promises will require the development of similar methods to frustrate, at least in part, an agenda which targets large groups of Americans as threats to public order. The creation of an index of Muslims and the development of a nationwide stop-and-frisk policy pose the same kinds of risks to a free society as the new president's immigration proposals.
So, instead of welcoming a new president in anticipation of his efforts to improve the country, we have to plot against him, in hopes that we can limit the harm he will do. Next stop, the Twilight Zone.
9
The facts don't matter. Obama did deport 1.8 million felonious illegal immigrants in the past 6 years and there are not two or three million left in the US.
How about the illegal immigrants who came right back? Remember the illegal immigrant who shot the woman while she and her father were visiting a tourist site in San Francisco? He had been deported five times.
5
Details, details, details...
President-elect "the Donald" has always been a big thinker. Get with the program, NYT.
President-elect "the Donald" has always been a big thinker. Get with the program, NYT.
5
>
Before the purge he'll have to cripple the media via lawsuits, threats of losing big salaries and ratings and other Fascist tactics, which is not far off, moreover, if the media's competence at its job is at all reflective of its past activities this shouldn't be hard.
We are through the looking glass here people. Everyday day we journey deeper into this psychosis
As Lawrence O'Donnell said last night, "the tweet is the new truth"
As Orwell wrote in his "Looking back on the Spanish War essay, "Nazi theory specifically denies that such a thing as ‘the truth’ exists. There is, for instance, no such thing as ‘science’. There is only ‘German science’, ‘Jewish science’ etc. The implied objective of this line of thought is a world in which the Leader, or some ruling clique, controls not only the future but the past. If the Leader says of such and such an event, ‘It never happened’ –well, it never happened. If he says that two and two are five –well, two and two are five"
As John N Gray points out Orwell carries this further in 1984: "O’Brien does not say the party flouts the laws of arithmetic. He says the laws of arithmetic are whatever the party wants them to be. Remaking the world in any way it liked, the party would be in power for ever. Orwell writes, "The party seeks power for its own sake,’ he tells Winston. ‘We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power."
Before the purge he'll have to cripple the media via lawsuits, threats of losing big salaries and ratings and other Fascist tactics, which is not far off, moreover, if the media's competence at its job is at all reflective of its past activities this shouldn't be hard.
We are through the looking glass here people. Everyday day we journey deeper into this psychosis
As Lawrence O'Donnell said last night, "the tweet is the new truth"
As Orwell wrote in his "Looking back on the Spanish War essay, "Nazi theory specifically denies that such a thing as ‘the truth’ exists. There is, for instance, no such thing as ‘science’. There is only ‘German science’, ‘Jewish science’ etc. The implied objective of this line of thought is a world in which the Leader, or some ruling clique, controls not only the future but the past. If the Leader says of such and such an event, ‘It never happened’ –well, it never happened. If he says that two and two are five –well, two and two are five"
As John N Gray points out Orwell carries this further in 1984: "O’Brien does not say the party flouts the laws of arithmetic. He says the laws of arithmetic are whatever the party wants them to be. Remaking the world in any way it liked, the party would be in power for ever. Orwell writes, "The party seeks power for its own sake,’ he tells Winston. ‘We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power."
53
If Mr. Trump has over-estimated, then there will be fewer deportations. that there are 11 million illegal immigrants by YOUR count is a slap in the face to all those people waiting patiently for their visas to be vetted and to be allowed LEGALLY in the USA.
820,000 with criminal records, about 300,000 with felony convictions, untold numbers who have evaded the law by slipping into the US. This is a population the US does not need.
820,000 with criminal records, about 300,000 with felony convictions, untold numbers who have evaded the law by slipping into the US. This is a population the US does not need.
12
Let's dispense with the Wall Street banksters who destroyed our economy and are still on the loose.
It is they that pose the greatest danger.
It is they that pose the greatest danger.
3
Please add my city of Seattle to the list of cities, states, county sheriffs, police chiefs, and individual citizens who will never go along with this madness.
Roll over Stalin: Trump is up next.
Roll over Stalin: Trump is up next.
11
This is another example of Trump Derangement Syndrome.
12
Thank you for a straight forward explanation of the situation at this time.
3
Nobody knows what he will do once he enters the White House.
We all hope for him to fail, Vice President elect Pence included who must be fantasizing at night about what he will do when he becomes president.
But Trump is a mystery.
People should begin to look at how to organize online and offline for civil resistance. Hey, Democrats will be so glad they did not force encryption companies to give them backdoors into their programs eh ?
Will the US build massive deportation camps secured with much dogs and military presence ? Really ?
When will enough be enough ? When Trump introduces libel law for the media that would muzzle them ?
American citizens should prepare for the worst, because it just might happen.
We all hope for him to fail, Vice President elect Pence included who must be fantasizing at night about what he will do when he becomes president.
But Trump is a mystery.
People should begin to look at how to organize online and offline for civil resistance. Hey, Democrats will be so glad they did not force encryption companies to give them backdoors into their programs eh ?
Will the US build massive deportation camps secured with much dogs and military presence ? Really ?
When will enough be enough ? When Trump introduces libel law for the media that would muzzle them ?
American citizens should prepare for the worst, because it just might happen.
10
Cue the "vast right-wing conspiracy" generator.
1
So 2.5 million deported in 8 years, as the Obama administration did, is the correct tempo to deport?
6
You have identified the flaw in the editorial. It assumes that the way things have been done in the past are the way things will be done in the future.
No, it assumes that a rate at what appears to be ten times the current one is possible without either due process shortcuts or a mass expansion of the immigration court system that Trump hasn't proposed yet.
2
The majority of people who voted for Trump have never seen the face of an undocumented alien, or if they have they would not have suspected that they were. This problem is an illusion created to promote more anxiety about the condition of our country. As a nation we turned to exploiting the poor for personal gains many years ago. Until we purge ourselves of the burden of consumerism with its need for ever more and stuff and grander lifestyles we will continue to exploit the poor and most vulnerable amongst us. It is the people who hire the undocumented that are criminal, they do so to increase their profit at the expense of legitimate businesses. When a billionaire real estate developer conspires to import, house, and exploit foreign works to lower the cost of construction it is not the workers that are criminal. The hypocrisy of his position now exposes his duplicity in the art of the deal. Laws are to be broken if it brings personal gain.
102
Indeed, those that hire the illegal alien should face the consequences of their act.
2
I don't get it. You expect a reasonable response from a very clever but stupid man? On anything.? Forget it. Endure the pain.
Despair of the America we knew.
Despair of the America we knew.
10
How many "stupid billionaires" do you know? Yes, he inherited several million dollars when his father died. But he took those millions and grew them into billions.
1
Trumps plan to purge 3 million 'bad guys along with his reported plan to form an Islamic registry, shows that he has no idea of what he is doing. The Republicans constantly berate the Democrats for not understanding the Constitution, but clearly their man doesn't either!
14
Trump has built his life and career on a combination of bombast, bigotry, misogyny and wilful ignorance. Clearly that is his overriding 'secret plan' for his Presidency as well.
If voting is still allowed in 2018, please America, hand this wannabe dictator a resistant Congress.
If voting is still allowed in 2018, please America, hand this wannabe dictator a resistant Congress.
4