Times paywall prevents many struggling blue collars from accessing news, though too proud to admit otherwise, challenging their preconceived notions of coastal media elite. More free online articles, free 30 day subscriptions, sliding scale rates may be what is needed to attract condescended to poor "white trash" .
11
It all comes back to education. If we want our country to be "great again", we need to give our populace the ability to figure out the difference between The Weekly World News (or Fox) and The New York Times. Pointing these things out only makes them defensive which results in them doubling down on whatever nonsense they believe. People have to learn early on that there is no threat in opposing views nor shame in changing one's mind in the face of facts. This is why the right has worked so hard to dismantle our education system and to scour the curriculum of critical thinking.
We need to work on a local level to take back the country. I grew up rural and live rurally. I'm liberal and I'm not alone--though I remember there being more of us in my youth. The pig farmer's daughter who was my playmate in childhood lived in an environment saturated with educational materials. Stacks of books, Nat'l Geographic Magazines, math and board games littered their farm house. They discussed world affairs at the dinner table. I'm not sure you'd find that today.
The right has stolen the intellectual tools needed to discern truth from lies from the common man. We need to get those back for them. The Republicans have been playing a long game born from Nixon's impeachment and resignation. We will have to do the same if we want to counter the spread of misinformation and the rise of the alt-right. That means taking over local and state governments and, especially, school boards.
We need to work on a local level to take back the country. I grew up rural and live rurally. I'm liberal and I'm not alone--though I remember there being more of us in my youth. The pig farmer's daughter who was my playmate in childhood lived in an environment saturated with educational materials. Stacks of books, Nat'l Geographic Magazines, math and board games littered their farm house. They discussed world affairs at the dinner table. I'm not sure you'd find that today.
The right has stolen the intellectual tools needed to discern truth from lies from the common man. We need to get those back for them. The Republicans have been playing a long game born from Nixon's impeachment and resignation. We will have to do the same if we want to counter the spread of misinformation and the rise of the alt-right. That means taking over local and state governments and, especially, school boards.
51
The Big Lie is being replaced by The Big Bundle of Lies.
30
Funny how the GOP has been so quick to embrace the media's normalization of Trump.
22
We now see that there is a great need for news sources that cover events and issues NOT presented by mainstream media. The extreme sites highlighted here are clearly straw men protecting a real deficit in our not-so-free press.
Let's have some numbers behind your unbelievable allegation that there was too much uncritical news coverage of Trump. I guess you could say that ANY amount of uncritical coverage of Trump, since he is a "monster", is too much. The amount of 'air time' is a misleading statistic, as is the amount of uncritical air time. The amount of uncritical air time RELATIVE to the amount critical air time is key and THIS should be considered relative to that same parameter for Trump's opponent. Where are these figures? Though I haven't tested the statistical power of my conclusions, I witnessed over the past month orders of magnitude more critical articles and photos of Trump here and throughout mainstream media compared to of Hillary, We all read the same articles here, didn't we?
Let's have some numbers behind your unbelievable allegation that there was too much uncritical news coverage of Trump. I guess you could say that ANY amount of uncritical coverage of Trump, since he is a "monster", is too much. The amount of 'air time' is a misleading statistic, as is the amount of uncritical air time. The amount of uncritical air time RELATIVE to the amount critical air time is key and THIS should be considered relative to that same parameter for Trump's opponent. Where are these figures? Though I haven't tested the statistical power of my conclusions, I witnessed over the past month orders of magnitude more critical articles and photos of Trump here and throughout mainstream media compared to of Hillary, We all read the same articles here, didn't we?
14
I watch too much Fox News. Last night, in a chat with Chris Wallace, Bill O’Reilly was indicting the NYtimes’ media bias. He’d warned Trump from the outset, O’Reilly said, about “certain people that they loathe the working-class – now Trump’s not working-class but he says he speaks for them. I am a working-class guy and for us to attain power, to actually build up a following offends them personally because we are exactly what they despise and that’s what this was all about.” Wallace didn’t refute a word.
At 17:50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZONt6M_yZQ
Who needs the alt-right when Pravda’s right next door!
At 17:50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZONt6M_yZQ
Who needs the alt-right when Pravda’s right next door!
26
The alt-right cult explanation for all of Trumps lies & reckless pronunciations is that they were "just his opening negotiating position" . It is the lie within a lie within a lie concept.
So, be advised that, with this logic, you can threaten your adversaries with imprisonment or lynching but, don't worry folks, it is just an opening negotiating position.
So, be advised that, with this logic, you can threaten your adversaries with imprisonment or lynching but, don't worry folks, it is just an opening negotiating position.
8
The answer is clear: these right wing websites must be shut down. Now is the time to stop our collective (completely justified) crying and rolling around on the floor with our hands over our ears, and begin marching in the streets--every day.
The NYT editorially build the case that going after the haters isn't an attempt as mass censorship, it is restoring journalism. Responsible, balanced, objective journalism.
It will be accused by the haters of doing the bidding of globalist investors like the fellow profiled in today's edition who helped "reform" the referendum movement in California who expressed deep concern over the non-election of Hillary. But we know this is right wing, hater evil nonsense.
We can and will pressure the government to shut these sites down and shame Mark Zuckerberg develop the appropriate algorithm to hide them on Facebook because progressive.
It's clear that that millions of racist, white, low-information voters who voted for Obama twice and then for Trump changed their views because they saw a post that told them Pope Francis endorsed him. Or that Bill Clinton has a love child. Or a meme, (yes they are like political cartoons, but NOT in a newspaper run by trustworthy liberals) of Hillary and a scary devil clown... Once we have made this stuff impossible to see, the vital truth that global capitalism is NOT hollowing out their communities will sink in for these voters and they will vote Warren/Booker in 2020 in acceptable levels!
The NYT editorially build the case that going after the haters isn't an attempt as mass censorship, it is restoring journalism. Responsible, balanced, objective journalism.
It will be accused by the haters of doing the bidding of globalist investors like the fellow profiled in today's edition who helped "reform" the referendum movement in California who expressed deep concern over the non-election of Hillary. But we know this is right wing, hater evil nonsense.
We can and will pressure the government to shut these sites down and shame Mark Zuckerberg develop the appropriate algorithm to hide them on Facebook because progressive.
It's clear that that millions of racist, white, low-information voters who voted for Obama twice and then for Trump changed their views because they saw a post that told them Pope Francis endorsed him. Or that Bill Clinton has a love child. Or a meme, (yes they are like political cartoons, but NOT in a newspaper run by trustworthy liberals) of Hillary and a scary devil clown... Once we have made this stuff impossible to see, the vital truth that global capitalism is NOT hollowing out their communities will sink in for these voters and they will vote Warren/Booker in 2020 in acceptable levels!
7
Why are people so eager to believe lies? Why has the demonization of Hillary, which actually started during the Bill Clinton administration, worked so well for the Republicans?
One example: what was the "scandal" of Benghazi? Where was it? What did she do wrong? Was she personally in charge of exact security arrangements in Libya? She should have personally scrambled jets from italy to take out the terrorists? "The cover-up" represented putting out an incorrect story and then correcting it within a matter of days. Oh, the horrors.
So, the rule now is that if anything bad happens anywhere in the world, it falls on that administration and its leaders? What about 9-11, 2001. Why wasn't that seen as the fault of G.W. Bush, especially since there were specific warnings that a major attack was coming? By the logic of Benghazi, Bush should have been voted out of office in a landslide.
We need to create an education system that teaches everyone to spot and resist lies whether they come from Democrats, Republicans or the Vegetarian Party (if there is one). We need to step up our game in this regard. Big league. Right now, we look like millions of sitting ducks just waiting for the right lie to hit our Facebook page so we can be happy for a few moments.
Is there anything else that could counter the tsunami of lies that passes for truth these days? The major national media have been reduced a rubble in the battle for reporting what used to be called "truth".
One example: what was the "scandal" of Benghazi? Where was it? What did she do wrong? Was she personally in charge of exact security arrangements in Libya? She should have personally scrambled jets from italy to take out the terrorists? "The cover-up" represented putting out an incorrect story and then correcting it within a matter of days. Oh, the horrors.
So, the rule now is that if anything bad happens anywhere in the world, it falls on that administration and its leaders? What about 9-11, 2001. Why wasn't that seen as the fault of G.W. Bush, especially since there were specific warnings that a major attack was coming? By the logic of Benghazi, Bush should have been voted out of office in a landslide.
We need to create an education system that teaches everyone to spot and resist lies whether they come from Democrats, Republicans or the Vegetarian Party (if there is one). We need to step up our game in this regard. Big league. Right now, we look like millions of sitting ducks just waiting for the right lie to hit our Facebook page so we can be happy for a few moments.
Is there anything else that could counter the tsunami of lies that passes for truth these days? The major national media have been reduced a rubble in the battle for reporting what used to be called "truth".
45
Newspapers have editors. TV news programs have editors. Both, in differing degrees have codes of ethics. What editors and codes of ethics do is they say "no." News is not simply information. Information itself is not "news." Saying "no" is what makes news what the news is. Nobody has been saying "no" on such media forms as Facebook and Twitter. And both TV news and newspapers are being forced to compromise the manner in which they say "no" by changed economic circumstances brought about by the new media. These new media forms need to be addressed by the FCC. The new media forms are undermining the very means by which the American people foster and use intelligence. We need to demand editors--ethical editors who will say "no" to information that is not intelligent.
9
Mr. Kristof,
Do you really believe that more than 60 Million people were taken in by racist websites? That Trump was elected by more than 60 Million stupid racists? Is it possible there is an alternate explanation?
Do you really believe that more than 60 Million people were taken in by racist websites? That Trump was elected by more than 60 Million stupid racists? Is it possible there is an alternate explanation?
22
Why is there no mention of the Fox News hack Bret Baier and his astonishing breach of journalistic standards when breaking the Comey story? Baier spreads, on more than one occasion, unsubstantiated lies and misinformation that brings a presidential campaign to its knees and he's excluded from your piece?
It's not just the outrageous stuff that needs to be corrected and called out; it's the hacks wearing coats and ties and posing as newsmen who need to be stopped. Jayson Blair and Janet Cook were fired for their lies and Baier gets off with a puny "I'm sorry." Really?
Baier needs to be fired from Fox (and barred from employment at other REAL news organizations) and the NYT needs to be writing editorials and front page stories on the supremely incompetent and partisan criminal heading the FBI!
It's not just the outrageous stuff that needs to be corrected and called out; it's the hacks wearing coats and ties and posing as newsmen who need to be stopped. Jayson Blair and Janet Cook were fired for their lies and Baier gets off with a puny "I'm sorry." Really?
Baier needs to be fired from Fox (and barred from employment at other REAL news organizations) and the NYT needs to be writing editorials and front page stories on the supremely incompetent and partisan criminal heading the FBI!
36
Is any of this a surprise? The National Enquirer, proudly displayed at supermarket checkout lanes for years, proclaims such absurdities.
The NYTs can do what it used to do best. Print impactful and fact-based news, with a left-leaning editorial board. Where did that go? Now the entire publication looks like an op-ed section.
I gotta believe that truth will prevail. The First Amendment protects all of us. So fight lies with facts, anticipate correctly where news will come from, and put resources there.
We have no control over what other people choose to believe. So stick to the knitting NYTs.
The NYTs can do what it used to do best. Print impactful and fact-based news, with a left-leaning editorial board. Where did that go? Now the entire publication looks like an op-ed section.
I gotta believe that truth will prevail. The First Amendment protects all of us. So fight lies with facts, anticipate correctly where news will come from, and put resources there.
We have no control over what other people choose to believe. So stick to the knitting NYTs.
10
Reckless disregard for the truth..... We have libel laws for a reason, and even public figures should be able to win for any of the examples you cite. Perhaps some high-profile, high-dollar cases can change the business model for these fake-news sites.
9
Too little, too late.
12
I'm still waiting for the media to focus on Comey and the Russians tilting this election to Trump. The media wants to act like Comey didn't happen and what ties this J Edgar type had with the Trump campaign. Acting like the Russians had no part in deterring the outcome of this election is another case of wanting to do a what the Democrats did wrong story. It was obvious that Hillary's number cratered and Trump was given new life after J Edgar Comey got involved.
66
As NK is perhaps one of my favorite columnists, and definitely the one with the clearest moral compass, I rarely find room for disagreement.
But in this piece he leaves out one crucial pillar of the Trump media phenomenon, as pointed out by other commenters below: The American voters.
Yes, absolutely, the media is guilty as charged for not exploring the facts, false equivalency, all the points noted. However, this is not just a product of laziness or greed alone - it's a product of fear. We are in an age where true criticism of Trump does not lead to kudos from his base - it leads to lost viewership. (And will earn you the fiery ire of the conservative blogosphere.)
I'll confess I didn't speak with too many Trump supporters over last few months. I regret this. But for those I did encounter, the same shocking script played out each time: Upon me countering their shaky assertions with the plain facts, I was immediately told that I must be listening to the "mainstream liberal media," and would end the conversation.
In short, if CNN and others had just done their job, most Trump supporters wouldn't be listening anyway. And those that were would turn off and find other sources more to their liking. (Perhaps including the one operating out of Macedonia.)
As the well-deserved sign outside a London restaurant now reads: "All Americans must be accompanied by an adult."
But in this piece he leaves out one crucial pillar of the Trump media phenomenon, as pointed out by other commenters below: The American voters.
Yes, absolutely, the media is guilty as charged for not exploring the facts, false equivalency, all the points noted. However, this is not just a product of laziness or greed alone - it's a product of fear. We are in an age where true criticism of Trump does not lead to kudos from his base - it leads to lost viewership. (And will earn you the fiery ire of the conservative blogosphere.)
I'll confess I didn't speak with too many Trump supporters over last few months. I regret this. But for those I did encounter, the same shocking script played out each time: Upon me countering their shaky assertions with the plain facts, I was immediately told that I must be listening to the "mainstream liberal media," and would end the conversation.
In short, if CNN and others had just done their job, most Trump supporters wouldn't be listening anyway. And those that were would turn off and find other sources more to their liking. (Perhaps including the one operating out of Macedonia.)
As the well-deserved sign outside a London restaurant now reads: "All Americans must be accompanied by an adult."
22
Perhaps the NYT should have a couple of reporters monitor and refute the lies found on alt-right websites as a way to atone for what it missed in its reporting of this election, and while you're at it, immediately refute any and all of the lies Trump tells. He has already shown an apparent indifference to the truth--now that the platform is even larger, he should be reminded that we are all watching and listening.
10
It's great to be a Trumpite and a Republican these days, but, like Obama and the Democrats, they, too, will overreach and give in to complacency. Eight years is about all the American people can take of any one party, but during that time will the Democratic coalition of interests hold up or will there be a lurch to the Left? I think that is their only chance. 2024 will be not only a race toward the middle but a race to find out what the middle really wants. Listening ears are in order to find out what the people really want, because their will is obviously not to be found in the NYT or in the ranks of its elite readership.
4
I find it increasingly disconcerting that the New York Times does not acknowledge its role in this election, in particular its own confirmation bias. Like many other liberals, hearing the New York Times predict a Clinton win with over 90% calmed me down and kept me from getting involved. I know how to take responsibility and how to try to do better with countering my own confirmation bias. But I expect my newspaper to inform me and not to tell me what I want to hear. Take some responsibility, please.
Further, any look onto the Breitbart website will quickly reveal that detecting the difference between their reporting and the reporting done on this website is not as easy as it looks, requires some work and research and - most importantly - requires taking a certain perspective onto the world seriously. Furthering the idea that poor people are misinformed and that their views and feelings are worthless is what got us here. This is not going to be easy, so let's face some hard questions and get to work.
Further, any look onto the Breitbart website will quickly reveal that detecting the difference between their reporting and the reporting done on this website is not as easy as it looks, requires some work and research and - most importantly - requires taking a certain perspective onto the world seriously. Furthering the idea that poor people are misinformed and that their views and feelings are worthless is what got us here. This is not going to be easy, so let's face some hard questions and get to work.
19
Rush Limbaugh has been lying on his radio show for years. I once listened for a week and tallied an average of 7 outright lies an hour. The only thing new here is that you brought it up.
19
Donald Trump in 1998 in People Magazine--He was right
"if I were to run, I'd run as a Republican. They're the dumbest group of voters in the country. They believe anything on Fox News. I could lie and they'd still eat it up. I bet my numbers would be terrific"
"if I were to run, I'd run as a Republican. They're the dumbest group of voters in the country. They believe anything on Fox News. I could lie and they'd still eat it up. I bet my numbers would be terrific"
37
Alt-right goes far beyond vicious propaganda and outrageous lies.
A NYT reader/voter comments:
"Something's just not right here." Agreed.
It is statistically impossible for so many polls to be so very wrong.
There is always a margin of error, but in this case those margins were always within reason.
The number of polls taken was very high. The polls were very consistent in their conclusions.
I maintain that ANYTHING can be hacked and I say this from a background in information technology.
This election was hacked and it is to be hoped that somewhere some capable group or organization will take up the task of proving this to be or not to be the case.
The Freedom of Information Act should be applied to a study of the system analysis for the compilation of voting results and applied to the study and examination of the software developed for the implementation of the system itself.
Modifying numbers to meet predetermined outcomes is certainly possible.
In fact just 4 or 5 important states will suffice.
Another question: Where was the system and the software developed and what specific entities where involved in this effort.
Trump decided to run for president - certainly a great surprise to the world at large - and he did so because he knew that he would win.
His entire outrageous and offensive campaign, his demeaning attitude toward many groups of persons, and his blatant over-confidence and swagger was possible because he knew that he would win.
Q.E.D. Anyone.
A NYT reader/voter comments:
"Something's just not right here." Agreed.
It is statistically impossible for so many polls to be so very wrong.
There is always a margin of error, but in this case those margins were always within reason.
The number of polls taken was very high. The polls were very consistent in their conclusions.
I maintain that ANYTHING can be hacked and I say this from a background in information technology.
This election was hacked and it is to be hoped that somewhere some capable group or organization will take up the task of proving this to be or not to be the case.
The Freedom of Information Act should be applied to a study of the system analysis for the compilation of voting results and applied to the study and examination of the software developed for the implementation of the system itself.
Modifying numbers to meet predetermined outcomes is certainly possible.
In fact just 4 or 5 important states will suffice.
Another question: Where was the system and the software developed and what specific entities where involved in this effort.
Trump decided to run for president - certainly a great surprise to the world at large - and he did so because he knew that he would win.
His entire outrageous and offensive campaign, his demeaning attitude toward many groups of persons, and his blatant over-confidence and swagger was possible because he knew that he would win.
Q.E.D. Anyone.
14
Come on Nick, how many people do you think voted for Trump based on any of these outlandish untruths? Can you find anyone? Have you talked to anyone who said, yeah, they were going to vote for Hillary but then they found out Pope Francis endorsed Trump?
11
Do any of these popular alt-right news items flourish in states with a terrific K-12 educational system ? Or a terrific community college and public university ? Or just in red states where public education is pathetic, and creates the launching pad for accepting alt-right ignorance ?
11
I guess such sensational and irresponsible journalism is somehow soothing to Mr. Kristoff and others at NYT (and its readers). Up to a week ago, they selected the most extreme, i.e. non-representative, individuals at Trump rallies and showcased them in this paper of world-wide distribution. Now he's digging through extreme internet sites and finding material to broadcast here again. This is more than being tabloid and being a sore loser. It's pathological. It's all over Mr. Kristoff. Such frenzied one-sidedness is a major reason why your 'side' lost. What is the viewership of the sites where you are getting this material, compared to the viewership of this paper where they're selectively presented? As I see it, such lack of professionalism and maturity caused this paper (and many Hillary supporters) to loose contact with the truth.
The truth is, far more Hillary supporters feel superior to Trump supporters than the other way around. This sense of superiority (combined with a life or relative privilege) does not promote objectivity. The harsh, day-to-day grind of most Trump supporters does promote objectivity though. (Sure they may be weak on foreign affairs, not having passports and all.)
Who really believes that the "alt-right kooks" presented here are representative of half the voting public?
The truth is, far more Hillary supporters feel superior to Trump supporters than the other way around. This sense of superiority (combined with a life or relative privilege) does not promote objectivity. The harsh, day-to-day grind of most Trump supporters does promote objectivity though. (Sure they may be weak on foreign affairs, not having passports and all.)
Who really believes that the "alt-right kooks" presented here are representative of half the voting public?
13
Now is this coming from the same NYT that wrote a letter apologizing to its readers for such slated coverage of Trump? The same paper that the day after the election printed an Editorial calling Trump voters are Bigots and Racists and thats why Trump won? The MSM media was in the tank from day 1 for HRC and did everything they could to get her elected trying to sell us another story is just complete lies, the Wikileaks emails prove this.....more proof is that this post will most likely be deleted by the NYT thought police who censor these forums. I see that apology not did last long and the slanted smug rhetoric continues....Shame on you Mr. Kristof, grow up and start being honest with your readers!
8
As a Californian I resent but have no option but to accept that 2 senate votes from Wyoming , population 590 thousand will help dictate disproportionately the future of 38 million Californians , how our Latinos citizens are treated, our climate change agenda , how we are the largest state in terms of paying into Federal revenue , getting the least out of it.The decimation of health care and so on as those two votes are critical in the Senate vote in the appointment of the next Supreme Court judge which will impact us for ever. Do Californians believe they will get a fair share of the proposed stimulus, not a chance it will go to Republican states.
If Californians wonder why Companies leave for States like Texas, Florida etc it's because they have lower taxes because we subsidise them
Democrats in states like North Carolina and Pennsylvania are grossly underrepresented due to Gerry mandering
It's going to get worse for Democrats as the Constitution continues to be manipulated by the majority of States( but not population)
So California , Democrats will remain sidelined unless we exercise key aspects of the constitution , the right of free speech and assembly , it's all we have.
Unless Califirnia secedes if we are not treated fairly
One person , one vote , rest in peace ,
If Californians wonder why Companies leave for States like Texas, Florida etc it's because they have lower taxes because we subsidise them
Democrats in states like North Carolina and Pennsylvania are grossly underrepresented due to Gerry mandering
It's going to get worse for Democrats as the Constitution continues to be manipulated by the majority of States( but not population)
So California , Democrats will remain sidelined unless we exercise key aspects of the constitution , the right of free speech and assembly , it's all we have.
Unless Califirnia secedes if we are not treated fairly
One person , one vote , rest in peace ,
15
As Walt Kelly of the comic strip Pogo fame said: We have met the enemy and he is us.
From my viewpoint as an educator: clearly we have a failure of the education system specifically with regards to teaching and learning in history and civics. When I talk to colleagues or even just other adults and we talk about our own schooling I have never had anyone else ever say they liked history--as a matter of fact most say I hated history--it was so boring. And there's the problem--the way history and civics is taught in our schools. The content itself can and should be fascinating and engaging but the method of delivery and assessment is not acceptable. (Disclosure: I am not a history teacher but my wife is).
Sad to say I think we need to have high stakes history/civics testing in our schools. I am not a fan of high stakes testing, test making companies, education for profit etc. but we have clearly seen--the data supports it--that high stakes testing raises achievement in some form. One of the axioms of data and testing and business management in general (drucker/peters?) is: what gets measured gets done. Now the actual format of the test cannot be to measure rote memorization of dates and people and so the design of the test and by extension the curriculum has to be completely built from the ground up. This will take a significant amount of time (minimum of 5 years and closer to 10 in reality) so it has to begin NOW. There is no time to waste. (I have lots more to say).
From my viewpoint as an educator: clearly we have a failure of the education system specifically with regards to teaching and learning in history and civics. When I talk to colleagues or even just other adults and we talk about our own schooling I have never had anyone else ever say they liked history--as a matter of fact most say I hated history--it was so boring. And there's the problem--the way history and civics is taught in our schools. The content itself can and should be fascinating and engaging but the method of delivery and assessment is not acceptable. (Disclosure: I am not a history teacher but my wife is).
Sad to say I think we need to have high stakes history/civics testing in our schools. I am not a fan of high stakes testing, test making companies, education for profit etc. but we have clearly seen--the data supports it--that high stakes testing raises achievement in some form. One of the axioms of data and testing and business management in general (drucker/peters?) is: what gets measured gets done. Now the actual format of the test cannot be to measure rote memorization of dates and people and so the design of the test and by extension the curriculum has to be completely built from the ground up. This will take a significant amount of time (minimum of 5 years and closer to 10 in reality) so it has to begin NOW. There is no time to waste. (I have lots more to say).
5
I need a few questions answered please.
How is it that Trump will be given a top security clearance without being vetted? Wouldn't he have to reveal his tax returns to get a security clearance? I know I would be turned inside out. I know for a fact with first hand knowledge that Trump had direct dealings will businesses owned and/or operated by organized crime during the construction and operation of his Atlantic City casinos.
What happens if Trump cannot be cleared for a security clearance, or does one just come automatically with being elected president?
How was it 'accepted' that Trump can tell us that his tax returns are 'none of our business, but president Obama was badgered into revealing his birth certificate?
How is it that Trump can keep all of his business holdings with a casual arrangement for his children to run his business affairs, without any mandate that a blind trust be established to ensure there are no conflicts of interest?
Are my inquiries simply naïve overstatements of the obvious, that what would be required from any one of us does not apply to Trump?
Why is that? When can I expect to 'get it'?
How is it that Trump will be given a top security clearance without being vetted? Wouldn't he have to reveal his tax returns to get a security clearance? I know I would be turned inside out. I know for a fact with first hand knowledge that Trump had direct dealings will businesses owned and/or operated by organized crime during the construction and operation of his Atlantic City casinos.
What happens if Trump cannot be cleared for a security clearance, or does one just come automatically with being elected president?
How was it 'accepted' that Trump can tell us that his tax returns are 'none of our business, but president Obama was badgered into revealing his birth certificate?
How is it that Trump can keep all of his business holdings with a casual arrangement for his children to run his business affairs, without any mandate that a blind trust be established to ensure there are no conflicts of interest?
Are my inquiries simply naïve overstatements of the obvious, that what would be required from any one of us does not apply to Trump?
Why is that? When can I expect to 'get it'?
23
As a person who lives in a red State, I have many acquaintances on my Facebook feed who buy into all of this nonsense. I made a vow to myself never to unfriend any of these individuals, so that I could stay in touch with all sides of the political debate. It has been astounding to see all of the garbage that comes from these individuals. I have taken the time to point out the fallacies and outright lies propagated by the sites, but it rolls off their backs like water off a duck. One of my favorites was the posting of the American flag and a demand to like the meme, if one agreed that athletes should always stand and sing the national anthem. I took the time on a couple of occasions to explain that professional athletes, like all of the rest of us, don't give up their first amendment rights just because we take a job playing football. These folks claim to be patriotic supporters of the Constitution, but they don't recognize the propaganda which diminishes the rights they claim to hold dear. Our country has been propagandized in a way that I have never seen in my life time.
27
As I see the votes for Hillary pile up compared to the total national vote for Trump, I'm starting to think there is no other topic--none--to address regarding this election beyond the constitutional conundrum that our electoral apparatus is handing the most powerful political position in the nation, and one might also say the world, to the individual who accrued fewer votes.
Until this is addressed head-on by the electorate and the news media, nothing else makes any sense.
Until this is addressed head-on by the electorate and the news media, nothing else makes any sense.
12
If the shoe were on the other foot, you would be extolling the sagacity of the Founding Fathers and the genius of the Electoral College. You may not be aware that this is the way Presidents have been selected in the US from day one.
10
Voters are human; it is not condescending to suggest that voters vote for candidates who excel at telling us what we want to hear, or at what makes us laugh, or at that which helps us to feel good. This is how we work, at a deep level. Obama got elected for this reason, as did the Actor and just about every President of the modern era. The fix is not needed with the political system, nor with politicians themselves; the problem is at the voter level: their lack of critical insight, their willingness to support only the most accessible candy that the political system has to offer (rather than working to form an opinion); their readiness to vote for someone they like or against someone they don't like, rather than voting for the person they critically assess to be the best candidate. I'm as guilty (despite my advanced degrees) as any voter; I need help! So, we fix our System of education; Or we fix our political education system (which is now mostly television). Or, we start over in some fundamental way; otherwise, eight years from now, our First Family will be the Kardashians.
2
Charles, are you saying that all of you highly educated liberals are the spawn of a system so flawed that even you can't form a rational position about political candidates? I guess us deplorables saved a lot of money by not becoming dysfunctionally educated. Thank God.
5
Alt Right media is social engineering. Plain and simple. Look who pays for it.
4
There should be a massive campaign to educate people there is NOTHING one can trust on websites and Facebook in particular. News may be true, but may be fabrications and lies. So, do not believe anything since no one vets it. But there are enough people around that can be conned, and the country will be run soon by the Conman-in-Chief.
2
The FOX network has been engaging in "false news" for years, making viewers more benighted than those watching no news.
So "false news" is really nothing new, but this issue of news accuracy has become more of an issue in recent years. It is unfortunate that we no longer have anyone comparable to a Walter Cronkite or the Huntley-Brinkley team.
It is sadly ironic that there are now more news outlets than ever but our understanding of the issues and grasp of the facts have diminished because all the misinformation being consumed by the public.
So "false news" is really nothing new, but this issue of news accuracy has become more of an issue in recent years. It is unfortunate that we no longer have anyone comparable to a Walter Cronkite or the Huntley-Brinkley team.
It is sadly ironic that there are now more news outlets than ever but our understanding of the issues and grasp of the facts have diminished because all the misinformation being consumed by the public.
9
Of course there is a lot unknown if you read this newspaper. You decided to not publish that Hillary had classified information on her server. You buried the AP report about the Clinton foundation. You allow your reporters to paint Trump as anti-immigrant because he wants borders. You rush to Hillary's defense after something bad happens to her yet you crucify Trump. You only allow Never-Trump conservatives to write an Op-ed. You even admitted biased news coverage against Trump.
12
The Republicans control the presidency, the House, the Senate, the Supreme Court, two-thirds of the governorships, and have 900 more state legislative seats than the Democrats. And just a week ago we thought it was the GOP that was the party in crisis, we were smugly laughing that the Republicans had "gotten what they asked for" in nominating Trump. In reality, it was the Democratic Party that was adrift all along. We Democrats are so arrogant and out of touch. Gotta stop reading the NYT and start talking to some of the "stupid" people sometime. Or maybe we're the stupid ones and we're just too stupid to know it.
Brace yourselves, my fellow Democratic Party friends, we are in for a tyranny of the majority in the next four years (at least), "big league."
Brace yourselves, my fellow Democratic Party friends, we are in for a tyranny of the majority in the next four years (at least), "big league."
6
An article like this is exactly why the NYT and other partisan rags like it will vanish from the media landscape over the next 2 or 3 decades. These people live in their own rarefied air, believing that all believe as they believe. Mr. Kristoff has leaned nothing from this election. He needs to look at a county-by-county map of the election results and pause. It is the little people who make this country great everyday. The efforts of millions of the little people allow the great achievements that we have made as a People, a society, and as a nation to happen. We don't like being talked down to in a condescending manner by someone wagging a finger, head tipped back while looking down their nose at us. My Dad always told me that I could talk to anybody - from the bum riding the rails to the guy who owns them and if they didn't like it, they could kiss my - well you know. The Leftists press and the Left can ignore this election at their own peril and I hope they do.
10
Mr. Kristof, do people, who gorge on that "news", really look for news or do they look for sensation or for validation of their opinions? What can the news media really do in this case?
3
Another headline might read: "News in the Guise of Entertainment". Inreasingly I have found the front page of the NY Times on-line edition is more like a magazine than a newspaper. Opinion pieces - full of bias - are given prime real estate and stories about peoples personal experiences seem to have become a large part of the "news". The investigative journalism that the Times did so well, seems to be disappearing. The Media flocked to and reported anything Trump did or said - not because it was substantive, but because it was entertaining. I don't want to be entertained, I want to be informed.
13
Right-wing talk radio is also loosely attached to facts and has large audiences.
1
It all comes down to jobs, jobs, jobs. During the campaign it seemed as if the Democrats were preparing funeral services for the American worker as we supposedly transitioned to a great global economy where the future lay in clean energy and ever advancing technology. This was quite a brave new world that was embraced by Obama and the Democrats, but it blew up in their faces. "Cool" is no longer in. Inevitably the essential conservativeness of the heartland came back and asserted itself once again in the elections. In their blindness the Democrats couldn't even see it coming. The Thanksgiving season is upon us, and the American worker wants to see more on his table. It's as simple as that.
3
There isn't objectivity in reporting, because humans write. Humans edit. People have feelings and biases. Also, newspapers have advertisers and boards of directors. It has forever been this way. So, for those who are jumping all over the Times as being biased, I say, "Yeah?" Fox News is blatantly biased. The Wall Street Journal has its slant, and so does the Washington Post. This isn't new. What's new, from my perspective, is how a particular spin is given a pass when it's clearly false. It's given an equal footing, as though it was a relative who at Thanksgiving dinner comes out with the biggest untruth ever, and the family just continues to pass the salt. The Bush administration was one that maintained a lot of nonsense, which veered from reality. And that has emboldened the right to state as truth what's clearly false.
The working class who have been hurting are listening to the wrong voices. It isn't liberals who have taken away their jobs; it's the wealthy and want-to-be-wealthy who have dismantled our economy by speculating, purchasing businesses only to gut them, downsizing, credit default swaps, and on and on.
The answers aren't going to come easily. There are some things that may never return (e.g., manufacturing jobs). That's the reality. So a voice who can speak the truth and offer hope is what's needed. And that hope needs to be honest.
The working class who have been hurting are listening to the wrong voices. It isn't liberals who have taken away their jobs; it's the wealthy and want-to-be-wealthy who have dismantled our economy by speculating, purchasing businesses only to gut them, downsizing, credit default swaps, and on and on.
The answers aren't going to come easily. There are some things that may never return (e.g., manufacturing jobs). That's the reality. So a voice who can speak the truth and offer hope is what's needed. And that hope needs to be honest.
7
"And one way in which we’re disconnected is that we don’t hear about or respond to these falsehoods in the alt-right orbit."
The media most definitely did not respond to falsehoods, not only from the alt-right orbit, but from their presidential candidate as well. Every time that man opened his mouth out fell one falsehood after another. And yet his fans kept accusing the MSM of liberal bias!
As for not hearing about the falsehoods, well, there is no word for that level of journalistic incompetence. Ordinary people like me have been very aware of the alt-right/white supremacist sites all along. Chain emails circulating in the workplace and through personal email accounts have been spewing their hate and falsehoods for years before the advent of Twitter. For anyone on Facebook and Twitter avoiding that filth is the challenge. Getting too much of that filth is why I no longer visit my Facebook account. After Obama was elected the nastiness and falsehoods on Facebook became too much. How could any investigative journalist miss what it so openly displayed on social media? The only explanation is that journalists didn't want to know.
The media most definitely did not respond to falsehoods, not only from the alt-right orbit, but from their presidential candidate as well. Every time that man opened his mouth out fell one falsehood after another. And yet his fans kept accusing the MSM of liberal bias!
As for not hearing about the falsehoods, well, there is no word for that level of journalistic incompetence. Ordinary people like me have been very aware of the alt-right/white supremacist sites all along. Chain emails circulating in the workplace and through personal email accounts have been spewing their hate and falsehoods for years before the advent of Twitter. For anyone on Facebook and Twitter avoiding that filth is the challenge. Getting too much of that filth is why I no longer visit my Facebook account. After Obama was elected the nastiness and falsehoods on Facebook became too much. How could any investigative journalist miss what it so openly displayed on social media? The only explanation is that journalists didn't want to know.
1
Here are a few suggestions for how to remake a society that values experienced, professional news outlets and shies away from fake-news sources: 1. Taxpayers must insist that more revenue go to funding public education, and that those resources go to higher pay for teachers, thus enabling schools to attract more qualified educators. It cannot be an accident that our youths' knowledge of and appreciation for basic lessons of civil society have suffered while we were both sending more students to private schools (many of which, shall we say, come up a bit short in teaching and valuing our country's diversity) and dumping many of the rest in substandard public schools. 2. School curricula must reinforce the lesson that a free press is one of the most prized features of our free society and democratic institutions. Reporters cannot be viewed as enemies. 3. News consumers must resist the urge to turn to free sources of news on the internet and instead pay a few dollars a month to subscribe to local newspapers. Those newspapers need the revenue in order to hire more reporters and editors who then can tell you when your mayor is a crook or your area's leading employer is a major polluter. 4. Editors at the remaining news outlets must do a much better job covering their communities in all their depth. Readers of your publications must come to know over the course of weeks and months just what life is like in your communities and who is driving political and business decisions.
3
When you said "one way in which we [the news media] are disconnected is that we don’t hear about or respond to these falsehoods in the alt-right orbit", you hit the nail right on the head. There's lots of blame to go around for the triumph of Trump's message, but our news media have really let us down by being "fair and balanced." There were far more, more egregious, and more hate-mongering lies told by Trump and his enablers than by the Clinton campaign, and a variety of online tallies (Politifact, FactCheck.org, etc.) confirmed this--yet you'd never know it from "mainstream" reporting, which is so afraid of poking the right-wing hornets' nests. The Right already has a practiced network--online, radio, TV, print--of linked lying machines that are well-oiled and well financed, with large audiences. The only regular counter to them is sites like FactCheck.org. If real journalism values itself, it will make misinformation a regular target, because the public, in a democracy, needs to know. The right-wing will scream bloody murder and lie about journalism that exposes their lies, and their true believers will no doubt scream right along in chorus--but many people who might otherwise be fooled will be warned. Folks on the left will tolerate criticism, so long as lies on the left aren't the only target. A coordinated effort to beat out the lies is long overdue.
10
In Germany, the willful spreading of inciting, divisive and violent false information is a crime (Volksverhetzung). To be clear, we do value freedom of speech as much as America does, but history taught us to draw a clear line, or face the consequences.
21
Recently the FM on my car radio quit so I explored AM. I was quite surprised that many of the AM stations broadcast hours of Rush Limbaugh and the like. The common thread is dedication to vilifying the left with innuendo, half truths, and lies. I heard Limbaugh spend three continuous hours trashing H. Clinton.
The ubiquitous right wing hate radio, the websites described here by Nick, coupled with with Fox News News presents what I think is an unbeatable propaganda machine.
The truth, in its usual simplicity or boring detail, can't compete with the siren songs of the right wing hate media which is free to to fabricate, embellish, dramatize, and endlessly repeat anything it wants. And the presentations are done well, tailored and executed for the intended audience.
The worst thing the left can do is to try and emulate the right wing hate media. That would drown the truth completely. The Trump administration, in its actions, may provide the best boost the Left can ever get.
The ubiquitous right wing hate radio, the websites described here by Nick, coupled with with Fox News News presents what I think is an unbeatable propaganda machine.
The truth, in its usual simplicity or boring detail, can't compete with the siren songs of the right wing hate media which is free to to fabricate, embellish, dramatize, and endlessly repeat anything it wants. And the presentations are done well, tailored and executed for the intended audience.
The worst thing the left can do is to try and emulate the right wing hate media. That would drown the truth completely. The Trump administration, in its actions, may provide the best boost the Left can ever get.
5
I went out interviewing voters for a video project just before the election. A woman in Frederick, Md., told me that Clinton had transferred $1.4 billion to the middle east recently so that she and Bill would have money after she lost. Her assertion was quickly followed by, "That's proven." When I told her that major news organizations had reported that Trump and his companies had been sued more than 500 times, she replied, "I don't know that's true."
The new way: accept the comfortable lie and reject the obvious truth.
Lies and wild rumors have always been part of American politics. In his days starting out in Texas, Lyndon Johnson was said to have spread a rumor about an opponent having sex with animals (it was farm country). A Senator running for re-election in Florida decades ago went around saying that his opponent had a sister who was a practicing "thespian living in New York" (two strikes and your out). Lies and rumors were spread by word of mouth and little, ugly fliers passed among voters and by sly innuendo or "slips of the tongue" by politicians. Many were defeated through such junk.
We are in a new and deeply scary era. Facebook is now the polluted blood stream that carries a disease that can, literally, destroy democracy.
The excellent coverage the NY Times and Wash Post did exposing Trump's disqualification for the presidency was too late and it didn't reach millions of people who were busy exchanging garbage and passing it along as news.
The new way: accept the comfortable lie and reject the obvious truth.
Lies and wild rumors have always been part of American politics. In his days starting out in Texas, Lyndon Johnson was said to have spread a rumor about an opponent having sex with animals (it was farm country). A Senator running for re-election in Florida decades ago went around saying that his opponent had a sister who was a practicing "thespian living in New York" (two strikes and your out). Lies and rumors were spread by word of mouth and little, ugly fliers passed among voters and by sly innuendo or "slips of the tongue" by politicians. Many were defeated through such junk.
We are in a new and deeply scary era. Facebook is now the polluted blood stream that carries a disease that can, literally, destroy democracy.
The excellent coverage the NY Times and Wash Post did exposing Trump's disqualification for the presidency was too late and it didn't reach millions of people who were busy exchanging garbage and passing it along as news.
2
And Melania Trump is suing a blogger who called her a high priced escort. Imagine if Michelle Obama sued everyone who claimed she was a trans woman?
Will the alt left Make its own appearance I wonder.
Will the alt left Make its own appearance I wonder.
1
After reading this all I could do was think back fondly to those days during the 2004 campaign when we were treated to stories about how Halliburton was busily engaged in building FEMA camps where defeated Democrats would be imprisoned, or that the evil Bush/Cheney had already captured Osama bin Laden and were going to unveil him on TV just before the election, that Bush wore some sort of strange device under his suit during the debates, and that 40% of Democrats were convinced that Bush had actively conspired in the 9/11 attacks (Howard Dean thought that was "an interesting theory")
1
The place the New York Times and the mainstream media really messed up was in their coverage of Comey's letter 10 days before election day. It was a nonevent that they totally blew out of proportion, handing the election to Trump.
2
You know how the GOP and now the Trumplodites went and still is all berserk about Secy Clinton's first public story about the Benghazi attacks...about some video that riled the attackers up. That she lied.
Lets see how big the lies will be coming out of this WH, with Trump blowing his Twitter trumpet! With his delusional, memory hampered cronies (Giuliani comes to mind) peddling their brand of "facts" when Trump is truly hit with his first crisis. Or even not...they might just start with their lies and stick with them no matter the issue, big or small.
If there's one thing the GOP, and especially their pundits do well is lie, obfuscate and generally make-up stuff to fill in their woefully absurd narratives. And their audiences love them for it, because it feeds into their sad, racist, sexist, xenophobic demeanor's. An audience that prefers their grandiose, lizard-beings in charge of the NWO and world-bank conspiracy theories - to reality.
An audience, that this election so dramatically proved, believe more in messiahs with magical powers (that ONLY he can posses!) sent to save them - over the extra hard work this globalized reality demands of everyone. Including those who believe its their god-given right to remain under-educated, under-skilled and apathetic.
Yes, lets see the lie-webs this administration will weave. Helped by the GOPs in Congress who have dug themselves into the system like ticks, by spinning their own deceit filled narratives and magical promises.
Lets see how big the lies will be coming out of this WH, with Trump blowing his Twitter trumpet! With his delusional, memory hampered cronies (Giuliani comes to mind) peddling their brand of "facts" when Trump is truly hit with his first crisis. Or even not...they might just start with their lies and stick with them no matter the issue, big or small.
If there's one thing the GOP, and especially their pundits do well is lie, obfuscate and generally make-up stuff to fill in their woefully absurd narratives. And their audiences love them for it, because it feeds into their sad, racist, sexist, xenophobic demeanor's. An audience that prefers their grandiose, lizard-beings in charge of the NWO and world-bank conspiracy theories - to reality.
An audience, that this election so dramatically proved, believe more in messiahs with magical powers (that ONLY he can posses!) sent to save them - over the extra hard work this globalized reality demands of everyone. Including those who believe its their god-given right to remain under-educated, under-skilled and apathetic.
Yes, lets see the lie-webs this administration will weave. Helped by the GOPs in Congress who have dug themselves into the system like ticks, by spinning their own deceit filled narratives and magical promises.
1
"we don’t hear about or respond to these falsehoods in the alt-right orbit. I think that’s a mistake: When Americans come to believe lies such as that the pope endorsed Trump, or that Barack and Michelle Obama unendorsed Clinton, those are assaults on our political system and we should challenge them."
I'm unsure that this is a good recommendation. It seems to suggest that attention should be paid to nonsense. Those who will accept that "the Pope endorsed Trump" aren't going to change their minds because the NY Times says it's not true. In fact, the attention paid by the NY Times will convince borderline folks into a 'where there's smoke, there's fire" view, and tip them toward belief.
There is so much of importance happening in the world that gets very little attention. More space devoted to discussion of irrelevant nonsense may be easy and cheap to produce, but it is not useful.
I'm unsure that this is a good recommendation. It seems to suggest that attention should be paid to nonsense. Those who will accept that "the Pope endorsed Trump" aren't going to change their minds because the NY Times says it's not true. In fact, the attention paid by the NY Times will convince borderline folks into a 'where there's smoke, there's fire" view, and tip them toward belief.
There is so much of importance happening in the world that gets very little attention. More space devoted to discussion of irrelevant nonsense may be easy and cheap to produce, but it is not useful.
3
And you think what the DNC did does not undermine democracy? If the DNC had allowed an honest primary Trump would not be president.
3
Nick I think you got it wrong. Trump didn't win because people believed half truths or lies in some internet article or on a newscast. Trump won the middle class, thus the election because he gave us hope of change. The Democrats demised us. In eight years we got the Affordable Care Act. That's it. And now most of us can't afford it. Clinton offered no change. It was clear to me that the Dems and HRC were calculating how to reach 270 electoral votes, not how to help the middle class. Whether it was Trump or some other candidate, when you say you're going to bring jobs back or create them you get the attention of people who don't have a job, or maybe want a different job that pays more. I'm indifferent to Trump. He never did anything for me or against me. Trump pulled a winning hand and he better use it wisely because midterm elections are coming and he will be held accountable by the middle class.
8
It was and will always be true that Barack Hussein Obama was never half-white by DNA genetic biological evolutionary fit nature nor all white by cultural nurture in the United States of America in the new millennium. That is American history colored by humanity denying African enslavement and equality defying African Jim Crow.
How people feel about their lives matters more than how they feel about the news. Deciding what is new and newsworthy reflects an inherently biased editorial choice. Some lies and liars matter more to certain folks depending upon their gender, color, race, ethnicity, faith, national origin, socioeconomic, educational and political status.
How people feel about their lives matters more than how they feel about the news. Deciding what is new and newsworthy reflects an inherently biased editorial choice. Some lies and liars matter more to certain folks depending upon their gender, color, race, ethnicity, faith, national origin, socioeconomic, educational and political status.
1
Great article- it all starts with a good high school education, rich in world history, and science. If one lacks the basic facts to begin to think critically about what is happening, global climate change or say what happened in Germany in the 30's then anything could be true if you want to believe it. This country is now in the grips of ignorance.
11
I had to google alt-right to see what the author was writing about. I am 64 and never heard of alt-right. Maybe they are read among the elite in NY or DC but not in the real world. And they certainly didn't impact Trump voters who live outside of big cities.
2
I blame the echo chamber Facebook creates, the shock value Twitter promotes, and the ratings-needy news cycle on Cable. I don't blame mainstream newspapers trying to make sense of it all.
5
The sausage making that is news was always sort of shady in how things got edited and what was chosen or not chosen to be news. But it was on the whole always the truth and did not engage in speculation or the spreading of rumors to keep a story going when it had been told in full.
But since the reagan admin sold citizenship to Rupert Murdoch we have had a new 1950’s cautionary tale level of shady going on. Rupert Murdoch came here to set up a Ministry of Propaganda which he calls Fox. Literally from the day he arrived the nation started on a downward slope with an ever-increasing grade into the swirling sucking eddy of despair we are now in. This has been helped by the de-regulation wave that removed the standards and practices that used to be enforced which kept our Press and entertainment media back from the precipice of chasing the lucrative but socially destructive paths they do now.
Without that de-regulation we could not have what we do today because regulators, who used to look over something new for potential harm before unleashing it on the populace, would have worked out the best rules for the internet and the innovators would have innovated ways to make them work.
But since the reagan admin sold citizenship to Rupert Murdoch we have had a new 1950’s cautionary tale level of shady going on. Rupert Murdoch came here to set up a Ministry of Propaganda which he calls Fox. Literally from the day he arrived the nation started on a downward slope with an ever-increasing grade into the swirling sucking eddy of despair we are now in. This has been helped by the de-regulation wave that removed the standards and practices that used to be enforced which kept our Press and entertainment media back from the precipice of chasing the lucrative but socially destructive paths they do now.
Without that de-regulation we could not have what we do today because regulators, who used to look over something new for potential harm before unleashing it on the populace, would have worked out the best rules for the internet and the innovators would have innovated ways to make them work.
4
The Republicans control the presidency, the House, the Senate, the Supreme Court, two-thirds of the governorships, and have 900 more state legislative seats than the Democrats. And just a week ago we thought it was the GOP that was the party in crisis, we were smugly laughing that the Republicans had "gotten what they asked for" in nominating Trump. In reality, it was the Democratic Party that was adrift all along. We Democrats are so arrogant and out of touch. Gotta stop reading the NYT and start talking to some of the "stupid" people sometime. Or maybe we're the stupid ones and we're just too stupid to know it.
Brace yourselves, my fellow Democrat Party friends, we are in for a tyranny of the majority in the next four years (at least), "big league."
Brace yourselves, my fellow Democrat Party friends, we are in for a tyranny of the majority in the next four years (at least), "big league."
4
Don't you mean the tyranny of the minority? More people voted for Hillary Clinton than Donald Trump. I see this as a right-wing coup for a minority political party which cannot win an election by persuading the majority of voters to vote for them.
4
I travel a lot. 50 mles, plus or minus, outside of a major city and all you can listen to is right wing radio. The papers are typically owned by conservative owners. Go into any McDonald's and you will see only Fox on the TV's.
None of the suggestions about improving the main street media will make any difference. The reality is that the rural news delivery is different. The Republicans have always had a long term strategy to control the "news" so that the opinions of the recipients will be molded to the benefit of the Republican Party.
The Democrats do not have a long term strategy about much if anything. Until they do, they will not win the hearts and minds of many of those that they need to.
None of the suggestions about improving the main street media will make any difference. The reality is that the rural news delivery is different. The Republicans have always had a long term strategy to control the "news" so that the opinions of the recipients will be molded to the benefit of the Republican Party.
The Democrats do not have a long term strategy about much if anything. Until they do, they will not win the hearts and minds of many of those that they need to.
4
the major networks still broadcast the world news at 6:30 PM when most adults are still at work. Traditional media hasn't met the challenge of parsing hard news into digestible bytes for cell phone quick views. they could start by cutting overpaid anchors, commentators and so-called experts. Every major news outlet devotes too much space to opinion. Give me news, real news, domestic and overseas. It's a 24 hour cycle.
5
The electoral map tells the story. We are a solid red nation with a few splotches of blue on the coasts. These are our population centers and the geographical base for our ruling classes, but the blue ink will never spill over on to the red. The Democrats had better learn from this situation, or it will be doomed to extinction.
3
It's easy to submit to blaming something or someone else after a defeat as stunning as this. Despite the contradictions implicit there, it's as automatic as fight-or-flight. Mr. Kristof has chosen to practically bury the phrase "false equivalency" well into his opinion, but this indeed was the media-drawn black hole into which choice, including votes made or withheld, was irrevocably driven. False equivalency over many years has become here and abroad the "rigging" of the system, and no other word substitutes better as an outcome than apathy. As simplistic or evasive as it may seem, certainly among the '.5 %ers' trashing hard-earned businesses in, of all places, that bellwether of hipness Oakland, CA, Trump won because votes were not cast.
1
One place this media coziness is on display is the stupid correspondence dinner. Time for media to take a step back from this and realize how this is a conflict of interest. Something no one seems to take seriously anymore.
I have been railing against these sites since early summer, the lies they tell and that the few right wing people on my fb feed would share. Like : "The supreme court has invalidated Obama's presidency but he refuses to leave". The NYT and other mainstream news outlets need to do a better job of stopping misinformation in its tracks.This was one of the flaccid failings of the media; it allowed lies to go uncontested. Paraphrasing a fb Twain quote: " A lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth can get its boots on". NYT get your boots on, keep your boots on; we need a more rigorous journalism.
2
I've daid it before, and now it deems trier than ever. The movie "Idiocracy" has turned out to be a documentary.
4
Lies in the guise of news in the Trump era? What about the NYT's policy of ignoring or vilifying the truths revealed by Wikileaks by attacking Assange? It was these revelations & not various moonbat claims by alt-right media that brought Clinton down. The people decided on the basis of the information contained in these documents that the Democratic Party & Clinton were simply too corrupt to lead.
5
It sure astounds me how critical a bunch of people who gave Trump a free pass around all vetting to this country's deepest secrets without even wanting to see his tax returns are about Hillary's financial affairs.
6
The Times didn't help by their arrangements with the author of Clinton Cash
3
We need to make public the names of all the secret far far right ultra rich cabal in the Council for National Policy (a highly secretive... theocratic organization -- what they want is basically religious rule). Southern Poverty Law Center reports that Bannon and Connelly were both on the 2014 secret membership list, along with the owner of LLBean (from whom I will never buy again!) And look further into the Mercers, billionaires who felt the Koch brothers were not effective enough! I'm sure there are other such groups. Let the light in, at least for those of us wanting to know the truth.
4
If you were more in touch with steel workers then what? Coming out of WWII US steelmakers ran out of date plants and the Japanese and Germans took their business. US carmakers made terrible cars the size of boats. The Japanese made better smaller cars. We are reading you online which is killing newspapers and magazines. Coal is not just polluting but to expense compared to natural gas. Fracking is killing coal. Listen away. Truth won't change.
1
The entire "conservative" movement is built on infantile drivel, fever swamp delusions, fabulist conspiracies and lies, lies, lies. They can't even face that some things are 'facts.' They have gone beyond Orwell.
4
Why did you leave out the alt-right's anti-Semitic views, and those of Trump?
3
The TRiUMPh of the amygdalla. React, don't think.
2
The bigger issue is main stream media like the Times perpetuating false partisan narratives. Example -- repeated columns & articles insinuating or stating that racist white cops are targeting and killing young black males -- without mentioning two key facts; 1) cops kill more whites, 2) based on population, cops kill a disproportionate number of Blacks but that is in all likelihood a direct result of the violent crime rate for Blacks being much higher than Whites -- as an example Blacks commit murder at a rate 7x that of Whites.
Times writers (particularly Charles Blow) kept treating Michael Brown as a victim and Officer Wilson as a criminal even after a grand jury didn't indict and neither did the justice dept and after "hands up, don't shoot" was debunked.
There are many areas where the Times only presents the liberal view and presents a belief or opinion as fact. Climate change is one good example. I've never read an article or opinion in the Times challenging CC orthodoxy. You only present the side of an issue you favor.
And while I'm not a Bernie supporter, the Times clearly didn't provide fair coverage. Nor did it provide fair coverage of the presidential campaign.
We could also look at the character assassinations of not only Trump but all Republican candidates for president or VP. Remember the McCain affair article in 2008 on the front page with no evidence, just unsubstantiated rumor.
No, I don't worry about alt.right. I worry about the TImes.
Times writers (particularly Charles Blow) kept treating Michael Brown as a victim and Officer Wilson as a criminal even after a grand jury didn't indict and neither did the justice dept and after "hands up, don't shoot" was debunked.
There are many areas where the Times only presents the liberal view and presents a belief or opinion as fact. Climate change is one good example. I've never read an article or opinion in the Times challenging CC orthodoxy. You only present the side of an issue you favor.
And while I'm not a Bernie supporter, the Times clearly didn't provide fair coverage. Nor did it provide fair coverage of the presidential campaign.
We could also look at the character assassinations of not only Trump but all Republican candidates for president or VP. Remember the McCain affair article in 2008 on the front page with no evidence, just unsubstantiated rumor.
No, I don't worry about alt.right. I worry about the TImes.
9
The media got us into this mess and it will be the media that will get us out. These early years of the new century will include an era of information reform, and my gut feeling is, that the NYT will play a big part in heading the country back in the right direction. In this new light there is no other way it can be.
It seems to me that most of these anti-Trump comments like to poke fingers at how the Trump voters are all dumb, misinformed, "deplorable" supremists. I'd like to start by saying, in no way did I want Trump to become president... At first. But, once I calmed my incredulity, I saw the picture that the Trump voters saw. I saw the two paths our country could take. One, where Clinton won the white house, and america continues on this absolutely destructive path, entangling our economy with those of our neighbor countries, globalization, and the horrible trend of alienating Russia from our elite circle of approved countries. A path that leads to destruction. Conversely, there was the Trump path, strengthening our borders, making our allies understand that they must provide as much to their security as we do. And bringing jobs back. We don't need to send billions or dollars of products to Mexico for cheap assembly, and then buy it back for even more. That's where the 35 percent tariff Trump proposed comes in. American companies shouldnt be selling jobs overseas because this countries minimum wage is 35 cents an hour. This election was about americans saying enough is enough. We've let the world use our economy as a doormat, and our military as a crutch, and voters saw a possible end to that trend with trump. Also, if you are in America illegaly, undocumented, then you don't belong here, our constitution protects americans. There are perfectly legitimate ways of immigrating.
7
Unless the Democratic Party returns to its working class roots, there is no hope for it or even a reason for its continued existence. Those who complain about the electoral college belatedly want to change the rules of the game, but it will never happen. Democrats rule the corrupt big cities with their restive populations, but that is as far as their influence will go.
4
Men, contemplate your own behaviors from the dawn of our time on Earth to the present. Bottom-line - - it is male cruelty down through the ages, presently in America in the forefront; in its basic forms of male aggression and greed manifest through slavery, poverty, wage-slavery, racism, sexism, lgbtqi-phobia, ethnocentrism, murder, torture; all the aforementioned which are anti-democratic repressive and destructive behaviors toward others; expressed for the sake of self-righteous power and control over others, for ownership of everything and everyone, and for the sadistic satisfaction of seeing others suffer and die due to male cruelty and their feeling the satisfactions of feeling, expressing and acting evil.
May we have the power to stop these cruel greedy power and control attitudes and actions in ourselves, and in the actions of the despotic self-righteous official who are and who represent those among us who do not want economic and social equality and liberty and justice for all regardless of how we appear different to one another.
We must stand up against political repression and demagoguery in America.
May we have the power to stop these cruel greedy power and control attitudes and actions in ourselves, and in the actions of the despotic self-righteous official who are and who represent those among us who do not want economic and social equality and liberty and justice for all regardless of how we appear different to one another.
We must stand up against political repression and demagoguery in America.
1
I don't believe that the lies being spread on Facebook and elsewhere are being generated just by individuals trying to make a buck. This has all the appearances of a state sponsored effort to undermine America with disinformation, something the old Soviet Union developed as a high art form. Why should they let those skills go to waste? The lie that Hillary had transferred 1.4 billion of Clinton Foundation money to the middle east was started by a website with no name identification and which often referred to dubious Russian based "authoritative sources" to back up its claims. I strongly suspect that the Russian govt. was directly involved.
If my suspicions are correct, this is far, far bigger than Watergate and hundreds of little scandals combined. If foreign governments are actively taking steps to influence our elections, and there have been many other indications that they are, this is a house-on-fire alarm that should send every major media outlet into overdrive. Please.
1
I cannot agree more. Mr. Obama, start your list.
There is no longer any hope of wringing anything from the Republicans.
Pardons: Hillary Clinton, Edward Snowden.
Funding: do what you can to fund ACA for remainder of the year
Remove Comey for cause.
There is no longer any hope of wringing anything from the Republicans.
Pardons: Hillary Clinton, Edward Snowden.
Funding: do what you can to fund ACA for remainder of the year
Remove Comey for cause.
4
There's enough fake, omitted, and glossed-over news by the MSM, including this paper, to fill an a long freight train. From the 'thoroughly vetted' ME immigrants who, in fact, cannot be vetted without access to their collapsed country's inaccessible databases—never mind the 900 active ISIS FBI investigations of people given the green light to settle here, to rampant violations by Iran of the nuclear deal, to the failure to thoroughly investigate political abuses at the IRS (Bob Woodward suggested in another era, reporters would be swarming on this story), to pretending election fraud is nonexistent, Clinton Foundation pay-to-play activity; the adverse effect on American kids when half the class doesn't speak english, etc. No wonder the publisher of this paper apologized for a faulty product.
9
Nicholas, I think you have missed a very important point. We are who we read and listen to. Trump supporters are not reading the Times, the Washington Post of the New Yorker. They are listening to Fox News and Talk Radio, and reading posts from people who agree with them. It won't do any good to improve news outlets that go unread by the people we need to reach. Somehow we need to create a news source that is both credible and widely consumed.
2
Maybe you could tell us who advertises on these sites so we could stop supporting them with our purchases.
3
This. I had an acquaintance post an article about the Clinton involvement in human trafficking (tied loosely to fact- Clinton was Secretary of State when an evangelical Christian tried to take kids out of Haiti in the wake of the earthquake and the Haitians intercepted and tried her. The details were left out of the article). When I pointed out the absurdity the person told me that it must be true because a respectable preacher had posted it. Her friend then said I probably only read MAINSTREAM media and posted the same article from USA Today. Only it was from usapoliticstoday. No critical thinking and complete willingness to swallow up the baloney.
4
I am fairly comfortable prognosticating that within two years there will be a very popular bumper sticker..."Don't blame me, I voted for Clinton."
2
Earlier in the week, you exhorted the Dems not to obstruct because you said it would be hypocritical of Dems to do what they excoriated GOP for doing. You are wrong, Nick. The GOP only understands force. The GOP doesn't respect civil, fair-minded governance. Think of all the irrational, hate-mongering, narrow minded regimes throughout history. None respect civility. They all take advantage of their opponents civility. Dems need to behave just as the GOP behaved. I know this sounds ugly. That's because it is an ugly TrumpWorld we all live in now.
1
I have always supported good journalism, do not live in the US and have relied on the Times to provide me with reliable information about what was going on in the US election...needless to say, I felt let down and a bit confused on election night.
I agree that your coverage does need to expand to include other parts on the US. Quite frankly, I do not know or understand a broad section of America and would appreciate the insight. I would go so far as to suggest finding a regular op-ed columnist who supported Trump in order to help understand where they are coming from.
I disagree that the Times should spend time trying to debunk lousy news from other websites. People who read these sites aren't going to subscribe to the Times to get around the ten article limit, and those of us who do subscribe to the Times aren't going to believe them unless we see a real journalist covering it.
It is like that old saying about bank tellers, you don't train them by showing them counterfeit currency. Instead, you only let them handle the real thing and they will be able to spot a fake every time.
I agree that your coverage does need to expand to include other parts on the US. Quite frankly, I do not know or understand a broad section of America and would appreciate the insight. I would go so far as to suggest finding a regular op-ed columnist who supported Trump in order to help understand where they are coming from.
I disagree that the Times should spend time trying to debunk lousy news from other websites. People who read these sites aren't going to subscribe to the Times to get around the ten article limit, and those of us who do subscribe to the Times aren't going to believe them unless we see a real journalist covering it.
It is like that old saying about bank tellers, you don't train them by showing them counterfeit currency. Instead, you only let them handle the real thing and they will be able to spot a fake every time.
To a certain extent, I don't think it matters what the mainstream media reports about or how they do it. Trump's supporters aren't listening. They all have their eyes glued to Fox News. The two sides can't even agree on what objective reality is anymore. I accept that Obama and Hillary are trying to heal the country but he and his cronies are dangerous and we cannot forget that.
1
The sausage making that is news was always sort of shady in how things got edited and what was chosen or not chosen to be news. But it was on the whole always the truth and did not engage in speculation or the spreading of rumors to keep a story going when it had been told in full.
But since the reagan admin sold citizenship to Rupert Murdoch we have had a new 1950’s cautionary tale level of shady going on. You see Rupert Murdoch came here to set up a Ministry of Propaganda which he calls Fox. Literally from the day he arrived the nation started on a downward slope with an ever-increasing grade into the swirling sucking eddy of despair we are now in. This has been helped by the de-regulation wave that removed the standards and practices that used to be enforced which kept our Press and entertainment media back from the precipice of chasing the lucrative but socially destructive paths they do now.
But since the reagan admin sold citizenship to Rupert Murdoch we have had a new 1950’s cautionary tale level of shady going on. You see Rupert Murdoch came here to set up a Ministry of Propaganda which he calls Fox. Literally from the day he arrived the nation started on a downward slope with an ever-increasing grade into the swirling sucking eddy of despair we are now in. This has been helped by the de-regulation wave that removed the standards and practices that used to be enforced which kept our Press and entertainment media back from the precipice of chasing the lucrative but socially destructive paths they do now.
There can be no doubt that Donald Trump's election can be linked in no small part to slurs from these disreputable sites on the Internet. But Trump also benefited immensely from two mainstream media personalities: Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity. These instigators gained currency by denouncing President Obama's every move and pronouncement as incompetent, malicious, or treasonous. If you share their belief that a person as decent and intelligent as Barack Obama could be wrong 100 percent of the time, you obviously lack any critical thinking skills and are susceptible to the propaganda of Trump Inc.
4
Thank you for this article, and for affirming what I suspected. America has been taken over by those who, in another era, would have been arrested for sedition and anarchy. The left must fight back by creating its own non-cable TV news and radio channels that tell the truth about the alt right and the Republican party, funded by wealthy, honest Americans such as Warren Buffet and Michael Bloomberg, and donations from citizens who want a forum for the truth. Liberal leaders such as our soon-to-be former President Obama, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Hillary, Michael Moore, Robert Reich, etc., would then have easy access to the American people to tell them the truth, and Fox can go choke on its own lies.
1
The alt right grew at the right hand of Rupert Murdoch.
1
While the alt-right media spewing forth lies bothered me, it was the non-coverage of Bernie Sanders by the New York Times and many other traditional news outlets that caused greater damage. I would love to see statistics on how many times Bernie was covered in the New York Times v.s. Hillery or Trump.
1
Bottom-line - - it is male cruelty down through the ages, presently in America in the forefront; in its basic forms of male aggression and greed manifest through slavery, poverty, wage-slavery, racism, sexism, lgbtqi-phobia, ethnocentrism, murder, torture; all the aforementioned which are anti-democratic repressive and destructive behaviors toward others; expressed for the sake of self-righteous power and control over others, for ownership of everything and everyone, and for the sadistic satisfaction of seeing others suffer and die due to male cruelty and their feeling the satisfactions of feeling, expressing and acting evil.
May we have the power to stop these cruel greedy power and control attitudes and actions in ourselves, and in the actions of the despotic self-righteous official who are and who represent those among us who do not want economic and social equality and liberty and justice for all regardless of how we appear different to one another.
We must stand up against political repression and demagoguery in America.
May we have the power to stop these cruel greedy power and control attitudes and actions in ourselves, and in the actions of the despotic self-righteous official who are and who represent those among us who do not want economic and social equality and liberty and justice for all regardless of how we appear different to one another.
We must stand up against political repression and demagoguery in America.
You speak of these things as if they are the innate characteristics of the average man. They are not. They are the innate nature of the British Upper classes who colonized this land and established slavery 164 years before the founding of this nation.
The people who behave as you describe are their progeny and those who wannabe like them.
The people who behave as you describe are their progeny and those who wannabe like them.
In addition, Trump has been actively de-legitimizing the media constantly calling it dishonest and corrupt, threatening to take away press privileges, so as to encourage people to "believe me" as the source of truth. Birtherism will become the modus operandi. He has already conned enough people to be elected President, so why not do more of the same? He has become our role model for success, so his methods of lies will be replicated throughout America. Our country will not survive Trump. Not even an invigorated NYT can stop it, but I hope against hope that you try.
1
Just now we are getting the big reveal as if Nick Kristof is going far far out on a limb. Right wing troll farm fake news from Russia, Israel, the Republican Party & US evangelicals have been harmonious long b4 Giuliani and Trump praised Putin. It's called "Blizzard of Lies" strategy, once applied to Hillary in the 90's in the NYT, that Trump and Republicans have used over and above the usual in politics for decades. And no, ppl who disagree w/ me are not automatically trolls.
Blizzard of Lies makes up for deliberate moronic true lie content with shear numbers of lies in speeches, YT channels and comments, true lie Alt/ right (Breitbart Drudge) news blogs, forums. Say that directly and the usual default settings of McCarthyism (Greenwald), lefty Big Bro conspiracy, Cold War Russophobia paranoia, or embarrassing refuge for weak arguments.
IOW, per a recent video, 1st rule of Fight Club? (Trolling) Never talk about Fight Club. Inference needs to be used b/ c who is going to admit that getting their tuition paid in return for undermining and influencing the IQ 80 gullible or those in on the joke that is right wing politics. (Lefty BLM fake news used when convenient)
Ever see how Christians are being persecuted, persecuted I say, not in the Middle East, but in US academia. Rod Dreher of TAC will vacillate back and forth on the true lie disinformation spectrum. Then come out against evangelicals for Trump. Hah!
Blizzard of Lies makes up for deliberate moronic true lie content with shear numbers of lies in speeches, YT channels and comments, true lie Alt/ right (Breitbart Drudge) news blogs, forums. Say that directly and the usual default settings of McCarthyism (Greenwald), lefty Big Bro conspiracy, Cold War Russophobia paranoia, or embarrassing refuge for weak arguments.
IOW, per a recent video, 1st rule of Fight Club? (Trolling) Never talk about Fight Club. Inference needs to be used b/ c who is going to admit that getting their tuition paid in return for undermining and influencing the IQ 80 gullible or those in on the joke that is right wing politics. (Lefty BLM fake news used when convenient)
Ever see how Christians are being persecuted, persecuted I say, not in the Middle East, but in US academia. Rod Dreher of TAC will vacillate back and forth on the true lie disinformation spectrum. Then come out against evangelicals for Trump. Hah!
Worse lies are lies propagated by those who should know better and are wrapped in the aura of respectability. Of course, there is also deceit by omission. For example, the omission of backing up a better liberal like Sanders by the NYT.
3
As this is being written, I am struck with noticing that there are exactly 666 comments posted so far by the NYT. Comic theatre, mathematical coincidence, or demonic power? No, it's a welcome insight by Nick Kristof into the dangerous reality of a digital world out of control. It reminds me of Yeat's line in his poem The Second Coming written in 1919:
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the center cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Yes, we had 1861-1865, WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Gulf-ISIS, and now the War of Untruths.
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the center cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Yes, we had 1861-1865, WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Gulf-ISIS, and now the War of Untruths.
2
Rebutting falsehoods? Hasn't recent research demonstrated that the mere process of rebutting falsehoods, often just repeating that which one is about to rebut, re-instates the false belief of those already susceptible to them, rather than dispel and disprove them? Nor do those affected/infected read the rebuttal sites for lots of reasons. (i.e., facts are tedious and boring, while lies are entertaining and sensational.) From what I understand, one can't re-spread the virus without re-spreading the virus.
If so, what's a better plan?
If so, what's a better plan?
Within these comments it seems people are lumping the MSM as one entity with equal impact or influence upon the masses. More false equivalence in action. There is a lot of blame to go around but the conservative media has a far greater negative presence than the rest of the media. Again, I challenge everyone if you want to know and understand those you oppose then listen to the opposition's messaging. Spend one month listening to FOX, morning, noon and night - that is all it will take for you to get a mere glimpse into the minds and working of conservatives. Then project what all that brainwashing can do to anyone who has been listening for years, some decades. If that doesn't scare the heck out of you, nothing will.
11
I understand your point. But how are we going to make the Press finally start pointing out that the "conservative" mind (GOP) is made up of leaders and yeoman middle managers who have no morals or decency and will say literally anything they think will let them win office? They are in a word EVIL. No one seems willing to focus on that fact or lay out the truth of their actions which proves this. They choose rather to report the talking points these folks use to hide their real intent behind.
1
That is exactly what I mean by Social Engineering. After Gerald Ford lost, Roger Ailes said the Republicans needed their own television station. They know they lie. It isn't a mistake when FOX gives disinformation.
I had a second idea:
Yes, we need a Fact Finding institution that both sides can trust. I said a problem cannot be fixed until both sides can describe it in terms of the facts, as in: "the house in on fire."
But this election was really all about subjectivity & emotions. And thinking of say, a husband & wife arguing, where she thinks the problem is: "we don't talk enough." And he thinks it's: "we don't have enough income, to make us feel safe,"--in a case like that, maybe you have to address both sides' concept of the problem to get anywhere.
So here's my wish list for a second institution we need.
We need one site where anyone may contact it and say:
"I am a Republican. And this is the country's problem: we need less immigration."
And another may contact the site and say: "I'm a Democrat. And this is the real problem: we need a natl minimum living wage of $20 per hour."
The problems are counted up monthly, and the top 10 problems (in the view of Republicans and in the view of Democrats) are published.
Politicians, non-profit institutions, citizens could read from month to month how the country is feeling & where it's hurting. It would be like a big digital, mass thermometer.
A wise politician would try to set policies that addressed the problems of both sides, just as a marriage counselor would tell the couple in the ex' above: "try to have a daily loving walk and talk. Also try to focus on ways to lower the economic stress."
Nobody wins until both sides win.
Yes, we need a Fact Finding institution that both sides can trust. I said a problem cannot be fixed until both sides can describe it in terms of the facts, as in: "the house in on fire."
But this election was really all about subjectivity & emotions. And thinking of say, a husband & wife arguing, where she thinks the problem is: "we don't talk enough." And he thinks it's: "we don't have enough income, to make us feel safe,"--in a case like that, maybe you have to address both sides' concept of the problem to get anywhere.
So here's my wish list for a second institution we need.
We need one site where anyone may contact it and say:
"I am a Republican. And this is the country's problem: we need less immigration."
And another may contact the site and say: "I'm a Democrat. And this is the real problem: we need a natl minimum living wage of $20 per hour."
The problems are counted up monthly, and the top 10 problems (in the view of Republicans and in the view of Democrats) are published.
Politicians, non-profit institutions, citizens could read from month to month how the country is feeling & where it's hurting. It would be like a big digital, mass thermometer.
A wise politician would try to set policies that addressed the problems of both sides, just as a marriage counselor would tell the couple in the ex' above: "try to have a daily loving walk and talk. Also try to focus on ways to lower the economic stress."
Nobody wins until both sides win.
1
We are losing our ability to think critically, biggly (sorry). The web, our phones, tablets, TV. The vast majority of voters do not research issues, and the campaigns know this. It is now fed to us non stop in sound bites. Instead of investigating stories/issues, a chime on our iPhone feeds us breaking "news". And most voters are not voting in the interest of the country, they are voting for what the candidate can do for ME. One issue, repeated over and over, is enough to sway. Teach your kids to think critically. That will be the foundation of change.
8
Trump is TV's Golden Ticket. TV is Trump's Golden Ticket. They are co-dependent, except Trump has played the executives masterfully. He's exploited their lust for ratings over responsibility, and utterly manipulated their own strategy of life being represented by reality TV.
America, finally, has abandoned reality for fantasy.
America, finally, has abandoned reality for fantasy.
1
Thank you for explaining how Facebook, and not right-wing AM radio, has taken over the lying-as-news business. Very interesting that Macedonia, an essentially failed state, is home to foreign-feed-the-fear-and-racism entrepreneurs making a buck on lies. The problem with the internet is that it is such an echo chamber; one need not look beyond one's circle to have the same stale ideas bounced back into your particular tin can. As an older teacher, I learn so much from my students. They haven't watched TV for years; they get all their ideas and news from Facebook or UTubers. They want to be UTubers; anyone can create their own news. We used spend time teaching the difference between fantasy and reality, fact vs. fiction, fact vs. opinion, and finally how to recognize bias in words and numbers. The lines are blurred for many, and the sales pitch of repeat a lie until the mind wonders if it could be true has become the on-going demagogue's news channel. What solutions are there? Could Facebook identify where its "American" news comes from, or is that "American"? "All the News thats Fit to Print from Macedonia"?
5
I don't think the fake news influenced many voters. Of greater concern to me is the increasing inability of Times journalists to keep their biases out of hard news stories. This election, it was rare to see a Times story that would hurt the Clinton campaign or one making Trump look good.
I used get most of my news from the Times and Wall Street Journal. Now I also look at Drudge. While it is clearly pro-Trump, it is also clear that big stories putting the Clinton campaign in a bad light, were not properly addressed by the Times.
Other than to blame the Russians, the Clinton campaign never really challenged the accuracy of the Wikileaks Podesta revelations. Yet the Times never covered them. Our tradition is supposed to be equal justice under the law. General Petreaus had his career destroyed for improperly sharing classified information with a women with the same level of security clearance he had. Wikileaks showed Mrs. Clinton allowing her maid to print out classified information for her. Is it justice for her to have no accountability when others are in jail for much less abuse of classified info?
True journalists find the discipline to write objective stories, no matter how much they would rather write a different one that matches their biases. I gather that the failure to do this has cost the Times some subscribers. I hope the Times gets back to that objectivity, so it can thrive once again.
I used get most of my news from the Times and Wall Street Journal. Now I also look at Drudge. While it is clearly pro-Trump, it is also clear that big stories putting the Clinton campaign in a bad light, were not properly addressed by the Times.
Other than to blame the Russians, the Clinton campaign never really challenged the accuracy of the Wikileaks Podesta revelations. Yet the Times never covered them. Our tradition is supposed to be equal justice under the law. General Petreaus had his career destroyed for improperly sharing classified information with a women with the same level of security clearance he had. Wikileaks showed Mrs. Clinton allowing her maid to print out classified information for her. Is it justice for her to have no accountability when others are in jail for much less abuse of classified info?
True journalists find the discipline to write objective stories, no matter how much they would rather write a different one that matches their biases. I gather that the failure to do this has cost the Times some subscribers. I hope the Times gets back to that objectivity, so it can thrive once again.
12
What Mr. Kristof describes has been one of my greatest concerns this election season. More frightening than the proliferation of political misinformation is that too great a proportion of the electorate lacks the critical thinking skills necessary to identify these articles for what they are--garbage. And sadly, their voting behavior is informed by it. As I've tried to take stock and move on from this election, I continue to grapple with what I can do to help others develop the skills they need to effectively evaluate various media sources. On social media, I have moved beyond providing basic fact checks. I try to model the behavior I would like to see in others. I share the fact check, but I also explain WHY I think it is more credible and informative than the source in question. I do my best to treat the poster with respect and avoid snark, despite my frustration at their gullibility. I try to empathize, perhaps mentioning a time I wasn't being vigilant and fell for misinformation on the internet too. And I try to remember that while I might not convince this one person, there are likely other silent observers to our discussion--whether they speak up or not, they might just be swayed. I was lucky to have had critical thinking skills modeled to me in college and graduate school, but not everyone is. I don't know how much my behavior will help, but I think I have to give it a shot.
1
Too much to respond to in this op ed piece; hard to know where to begin.
Mainstream news not picking up blue collar dissatisfaction? Seriously, how and why do you think Faux News exists? You surely understand the ratings your rivals generate. You knew. Why haven't you called out all the lies these outlets have perpetrated for years?
Why did you allow Trump to dictate how much coverage he was getting? From the start of the primary season, the media just treated him like the greatest most amusing oddity to ever hit the front pages. Outrageousness certainly trumps boring truthfulness and serious policy discussion any day.
When are you concerned journalists going to start waking up to the nightmare we are now in? Trump, and when he's tired of the job, Pence, will enable a fully Republican-controlled government to set the this country back decades. Are you going to just run with the next President (sic) Trump outrage rather than cover what is really happening in government?
Don't misread or downplay the anger the majority of the country who did not vote for this abomination now feels. Or you will lose all credibility. Forever.
Mainstream news not picking up blue collar dissatisfaction? Seriously, how and why do you think Faux News exists? You surely understand the ratings your rivals generate. You knew. Why haven't you called out all the lies these outlets have perpetrated for years?
Why did you allow Trump to dictate how much coverage he was getting? From the start of the primary season, the media just treated him like the greatest most amusing oddity to ever hit the front pages. Outrageousness certainly trumps boring truthfulness and serious policy discussion any day.
When are you concerned journalists going to start waking up to the nightmare we are now in? Trump, and when he's tired of the job, Pence, will enable a fully Republican-controlled government to set the this country back decades. Are you going to just run with the next President (sic) Trump outrage rather than cover what is really happening in government?
Don't misread or downplay the anger the majority of the country who did not vote for this abomination now feels. Or you will lose all credibility. Forever.
5
Dear Mr Kristof
You only need to look as far as your own newspaper to see the misinformation that has been disseminated by the press in this election.
Every day the NYT chronicled the bizarre chain of events that has brought us to this most unfortunate conclusion. Bar charts were presented daily indicating the nominees’ chances of winning the election. How could these bar charts prove to be so horribly inaccurate? With great regularity, the charts would present the Democratic presidential nominee as winning by a wide margin. These charts were backed up by all sorts of elegant statistical graphics to prove the analysis; maps, bell curves, diagrams, graphs, etc. These charts were concise and painfully detailed but in the end devastatingly and highly inaccurate.
How could “The Paper of Record” and one of the most highly regarded newspapers in the country, if not the world, get it so wrong and with such conviction?
This is much more than an “oops we got it wrong” moment. Your paper has given your readers a false understanding of the critical nature of this election.
Had the paper's analysis been more accurate I doubt the election would have turned out differently. However I do feel that at least the NYT owes your readers an apology, and at the most that resignation is requested of your staff that so routinely prepared and published such misinformation.
Sincerely,
L Osborne
You only need to look as far as your own newspaper to see the misinformation that has been disseminated by the press in this election.
Every day the NYT chronicled the bizarre chain of events that has brought us to this most unfortunate conclusion. Bar charts were presented daily indicating the nominees’ chances of winning the election. How could these bar charts prove to be so horribly inaccurate? With great regularity, the charts would present the Democratic presidential nominee as winning by a wide margin. These charts were backed up by all sorts of elegant statistical graphics to prove the analysis; maps, bell curves, diagrams, graphs, etc. These charts were concise and painfully detailed but in the end devastatingly and highly inaccurate.
How could “The Paper of Record” and one of the most highly regarded newspapers in the country, if not the world, get it so wrong and with such conviction?
This is much more than an “oops we got it wrong” moment. Your paper has given your readers a false understanding of the critical nature of this election.
Had the paper's analysis been more accurate I doubt the election would have turned out differently. However I do feel that at least the NYT owes your readers an apology, and at the most that resignation is requested of your staff that so routinely prepared and published such misinformation.
Sincerely,
L Osborne
10
This is the most important post election article I have read. Not because of its indictment of the current election, but because it identifies an issue that somehow MUST be addressed if we are hoping to go forward with a functioning democracy (I have no idea how though). Just as MSNBC followed Fox's success, it is only a matter of time before "alt left" news seeps into the body politic. No matter what ones political leanings are, there is no doubt that a healthy democracy relies on a reasonably educated electorate.
3
Its so fascinating to watch - very entertaining.
Had Hillary won, everyone would have congratulated themselves over their "informed" predictions. Geniuses, all of you!
But you were stunned when the voters who you wouldn't listen to, wouldn't recognize, and wouldn't accept gave it to Trump.
And how, here you all are - complete experts in why Trump won. As if you predicted it all along!
It's not only fascinating it's a pleasure to watch you complain about all the things you denied existed just 5 days ago.
Had Hillary won, everyone would have congratulated themselves over their "informed" predictions. Geniuses, all of you!
But you were stunned when the voters who you wouldn't listen to, wouldn't recognize, and wouldn't accept gave it to Trump.
And how, here you all are - complete experts in why Trump won. As if you predicted it all along!
It's not only fascinating it's a pleasure to watch you complain about all the things you denied existed just 5 days ago.
5
I am not sure how you can say the liberal sites are less prone to fabrication. What can be said however is that the main stream media is overwhelmingly left wing and is unwilling to examine thoroughly claims made by liberals. Four years ago we listened to Harry Reid claim Mitt Romney did not pay his taxes. Crickets from the NYT. Recently your paper started a policy which would call out politicians who lied. Well what about obamas recent statement that none of the republicans claims about the future of the ACA came true. Flatly untrue. Most every warning has come true. Bottom line is your paper engages in regular promoting of regular falsehoods.
6
Very pertinent article. I would like to see more about how to stop the misinformation. Freedom of speech entails responsibility. In most countries there are laws that penalize libel and a justice system that you may use to defend yourself or your organization. These remedies cannot be applied so easily when the offense happens on the Internet where a 12 year old can have a web site up and running in an hour. I think it is time to create an International coalition and approve laws and rules for Internet web sites creation and use. If a site traffics in lies and hate, it is not freedom of speech. It is an attack on democracy and a danger to us all.
So the "alt-left" has not been involved?
6
If you get your news from this newspaper, there's probably a lot you don't know. You may not realize that there are several million Americans who's economic livelihoods have been directly compromised by the policies of our current President. Fortunately, you learned of these individuals 5 days ago, and you now can function as a fully informed member of the electorate.
2
"Sometimes" bungled??? Admit it unequivocally.. You allowed the rise of this demagogue and then abrogated your responsibility to expose his flaws. And now you expect us to become supplicants at your post hoc shaming party? Shame on you.
1
One of the other sins of this newspaper was the embrace of Clinton and the demonizing of Sanders. I know he scares the moneyed class, of which the NYT is a part and partner, but he could have beaten Trump. You chose to ignore his far greater popularity and vision because it didn't fit your narrow view and self-interest. He scares you so much your editors cut off comments from his opinion piece yesterday before 8:00 a.m. when there were fewer than 450 comments. They weren't trending in the sneering direction sufficiently.
The Times needs reporters who are not as well paid as these appear to be. "Hungry" reporters are the most able to hear and identify what is happening on the ground. You won't get that while lifting a glass of champagne and a bite of caviar from the billionaires' banquet while patting yourself on the shoulder for becoming such an insider that you are permitted there at all.
Reporters and opinion writers at the Times are about as out of touch as Marie Antoinette. And as haughty. The alt-right isn't the only place we get slanted news. Shame on you.
The Times needs reporters who are not as well paid as these appear to be. "Hungry" reporters are the most able to hear and identify what is happening on the ground. You won't get that while lifting a glass of champagne and a bite of caviar from the billionaires' banquet while patting yourself on the shoulder for becoming such an insider that you are permitted there at all.
Reporters and opinion writers at the Times are about as out of touch as Marie Antoinette. And as haughty. The alt-right isn't the only place we get slanted news. Shame on you.
4
oh, the Times did its part. The Times coverage of the email server, without reference to Colin Powell's similar set up, or to Donald Trump's server and emails that were destroyed while under subpoena, seems to have spawned enough hate on its own.
"Rather, the problem with mainstream news sources is in part that we’re out of touch with many of the ordinary voters whom we purport to care about." So says Mr. Kristof.
While this is part of the problem, I think a bigger part is that, because virtually all mainstream media is corporate, the driving factor is profit. Leslie Moonves, the CEO of CBS, referring to his network's ratings for political coverage, famously (Or, to some of us, infamously.) said, "I don't know if Trump's candidacy is good for America, but it's great for CBS."
That sentiment is a disgrace, but it also expresses what has become the quintessential value of the American elite - love of money above all else.
While this is part of the problem, I think a bigger part is that, because virtually all mainstream media is corporate, the driving factor is profit. Leslie Moonves, the CEO of CBS, referring to his network's ratings for political coverage, famously (Or, to some of us, infamously.) said, "I don't know if Trump's candidacy is good for America, but it's great for CBS."
That sentiment is a disgrace, but it also expresses what has become the quintessential value of the American elite - love of money above all else.
2
Dark days ahead. The situation in this country and most of Europe is eerily like the 1930s. Thank goodness we have Merkel in Germany. Hope we can keep her.
1
While I agree entirely with the spirit of Nick's article, who would want to read a NYT laced with refutations of allegations that the Pope endorsed Trump, Obama is Satan, etc.? Do NYT readers need such clarifications? How many of the "believers" of such claims will be reading today's Times?
I agree with Nick that the effective misuse of media power can have consequences ranging in degrees of catastrophic, history being replete with examples that may prove tame given the near-universal instantaneous connectedness of electronic communications.
Lying is swift and effective, correcting a lie is slow and partial at best.
In Jonathan Swift's 1710 essay "The Art of Political Lying" he says, "Falsehood flies, and the truth comes limping after it, so that when men come to be undeceived, it is too late; the jest is over and the tale hath had its effect; like a man who hath thought of a good repartee when the discourse has changed, or the company parted; or like a physician who hath found out an infallible medicine, after the patient is dead." Have things changed?
Plainly lies need to be confronted, and as they can be so prolific, refutation has to be selective to be effective. The seemingly intractable problem is getting the message out persuasively to those on whom the deception is practiced.
Also, we have bought into deceptive language, such as "belief" in climate change; since when is science a matter of faith?
I agree with Nick that the effective misuse of media power can have consequences ranging in degrees of catastrophic, history being replete with examples that may prove tame given the near-universal instantaneous connectedness of electronic communications.
Lying is swift and effective, correcting a lie is slow and partial at best.
In Jonathan Swift's 1710 essay "The Art of Political Lying" he says, "Falsehood flies, and the truth comes limping after it, so that when men come to be undeceived, it is too late; the jest is over and the tale hath had its effect; like a man who hath thought of a good repartee when the discourse has changed, or the company parted; or like a physician who hath found out an infallible medicine, after the patient is dead." Have things changed?
Plainly lies need to be confronted, and as they can be so prolific, refutation has to be selective to be effective. The seemingly intractable problem is getting the message out persuasively to those on whom the deception is practiced.
Also, we have bought into deceptive language, such as "belief" in climate change; since when is science a matter of faith?
4
The people I know who voted for trump are not unemployed white males nor are they struggling to make ends meet. They are also not uneducated or low in information. They are republicans who believe what they hear and see on Fox News. They are not low information voters; its that the information they do have convinces them that Hillary is crooked, that she lied so people died in Benghazi, that climate change is a hoax, that the women who came forward claiming that trump assaulted them are liars encouraged by the liberal press, that Obama is a Muslim born in Africa, that Muslims should be banned, that black and Hispanic people are rapists and criminals, that it doesn't matter that millions who now have health care under obamacare will now have nothing, and the list goes on. They are people who's worldview is so obviously nonsensical that they hold onto it for dear life so the foundation upon which they're lives have been built will remain intact. So now because we have lost the election we should listen to them and have compassion for their plight? I don't have any answers but I find it hard not to be outraged. Thank you nyt for publishing this piece that says it like it is.
25
I think that our Kenyan-born Muslim president has shown such grace in what must be a heart-breaking moment, as has his beautiful wife. May Allah be praised! And I hope that the Clintons find great joy in their precious grandchildren. All of them.
There's nothing wrong with resisting evil, but it's not always effective. We're taught to set the story of oppressor-and-oppressed aside; to go the extra mile. If we believe the greatest power lies in love, then the President-Elect can never be the most powerful person in the world. The landscape ahead looks grim to me, too, but it's not all there is.
There's nothing wrong with resisting evil, but it's not always effective. We're taught to set the story of oppressor-and-oppressed aside; to go the extra mile. If we believe the greatest power lies in love, then the President-Elect can never be the most powerful person in the world. The landscape ahead looks grim to me, too, but it's not all there is.
Ok, I accept that some of the Trump supporters voted because of economic issues. However, did anyone see or hear those supporters denouncing the lies, conspiracy theories, hateful rhetoric and violence? I did not. And please tell me what the Republications did or proposed for the disenfranchised voters during the last eight years, except tax cuts for businesses and the wealthy, while Obama was trying recharge the economy after the disastrous crash preceding him. Many Walmart workers accept government aid to get by. The coal industry has been in decline for 35 years. Those jobs will not come back with or without Donald Trump. After demonizing Obama for 10 years Trump now calls him a good man. I will not unite against a thug with no conscience or soul.
5
Hillary has been for years referred to by Haters as a congenital liar. Now they have a new champion, someone they voted for. With extreme passion, they've managed to drag over the electoral college finish line someone who will make all congenital liars pale by comparison. They have elected the El Supremo of teller of tall tales.
The Twitter King thumbs are itching to get back to that thing between his legs, furiously fingering his vile and completely idiotic thought pieces. The question of utmost importance coming January 20th is not if but when Trump will be impeached. Get ready to start the clock.
DD
Manhattan
The Twitter King thumbs are itching to get back to that thing between his legs, furiously fingering his vile and completely idiotic thought pieces. The question of utmost importance coming January 20th is not if but when Trump will be impeached. Get ready to start the clock.
DD
Manhattan
5
WE CAN CHANGE THIS:
Sharon posted the link below in an earlier post to another article. It's a Change.org petition to have electoral voters to change their vote to Ms. Hillary Rodham Clinton and get rid of The Con Don and his robber baron supporters on December 19.
At first I thought it would not work, then reconsidered. Enough of them might be horrified with the outcome to vote for Rodham-Clinton. Washington State has a $1,000 fine if electoral voters do not vote with the state majority popular vote and other states have other rules. Please see what the rules are in your state, find out who the electoral voters are and start whatever movement needed to get them to change their vote. Pantsuits Nation, a private facebook group that recently formed apparently is going to crowdfund any fines they face.
There are 518 electoral votes. Rodham-Clinton got 228. It would only take 62 more Electoral College votes to make her the President and I do believe there are at least that many people willing to go against the "rules" and change their vote. The game was rigged by BIG democracy-destroying money masters and regular, everyday people can change it. Let's all act to make it so. Start by signing the petition below.
https://www.change.org/p/electoral-college-electors-electoral-college-ma...
Sharon posted the link below in an earlier post to another article. It's a Change.org petition to have electoral voters to change their vote to Ms. Hillary Rodham Clinton and get rid of The Con Don and his robber baron supporters on December 19.
At first I thought it would not work, then reconsidered. Enough of them might be horrified with the outcome to vote for Rodham-Clinton. Washington State has a $1,000 fine if electoral voters do not vote with the state majority popular vote and other states have other rules. Please see what the rules are in your state, find out who the electoral voters are and start whatever movement needed to get them to change their vote. Pantsuits Nation, a private facebook group that recently formed apparently is going to crowdfund any fines they face.
There are 518 electoral votes. Rodham-Clinton got 228. It would only take 62 more Electoral College votes to make her the President and I do believe there are at least that many people willing to go against the "rules" and change their vote. The game was rigged by BIG democracy-destroying money masters and regular, everyday people can change it. Let's all act to make it so. Start by signing the petition below.
https://www.change.org/p/electoral-college-electors-electoral-college-ma...
1
I think wistfully of Robert Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land. He created the wonderful concept of True Witnesses. A True Witness was recruited by the govt for intelligence, objectivity & observation skills, then trained to be more so. A True Witness's word was accepted as fact in a court of law. For instance, asked in court: "What color is that house over there?" the Witness would reply, "this side of the house is painted red." Because she couldn't see the other sides of the house from where she was sitting, she couldn't testify to the rest of the house.
Well, we need something like that. An impeccable, acceptable Fact Finding non-profit institution. It has to be acceptable to both sides. It doesn't deal in beliefs or opinions. But everyone knows that when it says "this is a fact," it is.
It has to be headed by Republicans and Democrats--one of each, serving for a set term. I can think of several Democrats I'd accept for "my" side. Bernie, for starters. Probably Elizabeth Warren, though really we need more dispassionate candidates. Someone who can grit her teeth and tell the truth, ugly or not.
But who the heck would the Republicans submit & accept? The elder Bush comes to mind, but someone younger, that even Democrats could happily heed? Do the Republicans have anyone at all that all of us could call honorable?
Yet how do we fix this country, if we can't even agree on what is a fact? You cannot fix a problem until you accurately describe it.
Well, we need something like that. An impeccable, acceptable Fact Finding non-profit institution. It has to be acceptable to both sides. It doesn't deal in beliefs or opinions. But everyone knows that when it says "this is a fact," it is.
It has to be headed by Republicans and Democrats--one of each, serving for a set term. I can think of several Democrats I'd accept for "my" side. Bernie, for starters. Probably Elizabeth Warren, though really we need more dispassionate candidates. Someone who can grit her teeth and tell the truth, ugly or not.
But who the heck would the Republicans submit & accept? The elder Bush comes to mind, but someone younger, that even Democrats could happily heed? Do the Republicans have anyone at all that all of us could call honorable?
Yet how do we fix this country, if we can't even agree on what is a fact? You cannot fix a problem until you accurately describe it.
1
"something like that" is what every child used to be taught to do as a matter of course in school. They were taught to separate what they could actually see, feel, smell and hear from their subjective perception of that thing. It was called Objectivity.
How one uses this information to draw conclusions sans pretending to read other peoples minds is called reason.
How one uses this information to draw conclusions sans pretending to read other peoples minds is called reason.
What a shame that you only talk about the unsophisticated lies of the alt media. How about the establishment journalisms lies about 5% unemployment, or talking down our expensive pharmaceutical system,when the money made (from US sales)supports the research that the world depends on. Where is the fact that our air and water has been materially improved since imperfect manufacturing systems went abroad. Who reports that the greatest export we have is our monetary system which the world relies upon for commerce ( where would the 100 trillion dollars needed for world trade every year come from if not from us). You only report meaningless deficits in material movements. The main stream media has little or no connection to the reality it lives in.
KEEPING The Heat UP
Is one way Trump and Trumpsters can, via proceeding with a lock her up exercise.
And
Demonstrators and protesters around the country, and around world(?) can keep an opposing heat-up. They can Develop and Proliferate Many Networks for an indefinite number of years to Monitor and Oppose Trump-in-office.
Is one way Trump and Trumpsters can, via proceeding with a lock her up exercise.
And
Demonstrators and protesters around the country, and around world(?) can keep an opposing heat-up. They can Develop and Proliferate Many Networks for an indefinite number of years to Monitor and Oppose Trump-in-office.
1
Now election is over and Hillary Clinton was trounced by Comey, and others.
I wish Donald Trump remains in good health to be reckless again and go against all his cronies particularly Mike Pence for the next four years.
Was I dreaming ? NO
In the mean time Us the Democrats are going to regroup again to make sure Donald Trump`s Presidency lasts for four years only. .
I wish Donald Trump remains in good health to be reckless again and go against all his cronies particularly Mike Pence for the next four years.
Was I dreaming ? NO
In the mean time Us the Democrats are going to regroup again to make sure Donald Trump`s Presidency lasts for four years only. .
1
Righties never give or even know the details of their supposed "really great" plans. They only talk about what they want to dismantle or destroy.
Their "leaders" stay hidden from public view and the light of day. Hiding in hate radio studios and right-wing propaganda factories they call "think-tanks". The public sees only their cheer-leaders spewing the sacred talking points. Meaningless, ridiculously over-simplified, and purposely misleading...these are the words of the righties. Deliberate attempts to deceive.
Soulless hollow individuals. A lot like zombies.
fwa
Their "leaders" stay hidden from public view and the light of day. Hiding in hate radio studios and right-wing propaganda factories they call "think-tanks". The public sees only their cheer-leaders spewing the sacred talking points. Meaningless, ridiculously over-simplified, and purposely misleading...these are the words of the righties. Deliberate attempts to deceive.
Soulless hollow individuals. A lot like zombies.
fwa
1
Dear Mr Kristof
I think you are way to easy on the Times - focusing on the real sins of the alt right is a way for you to avoid the much harder work of looking at The Tmes coverage, eg the Clinton foundation and emails
I also think you give the alt left (Huff post, common dreams) a pass; while not quite as bad as the alt right, the alt left is far removed from reality
yours
I think you are way to easy on the Times - focusing on the real sins of the alt right is a way for you to avoid the much harder work of looking at The Tmes coverage, eg the Clinton foundation and emails
I also think you give the alt left (Huff post, common dreams) a pass; while not quite as bad as the alt right, the alt left is far removed from reality
yours
6
I believe that cleaning up bias and one sided reporting begins at home. And thankfully, so does your editor.
5
Please understand not everyone that voted for Trump voted for him because of what they read someone said; most of use voted for him because of what Hillary and Trump said. Not because hearsay and lies from the media.
4
Now what do we think of the relentless hacking of education funds throughout the nation that's been going on for years? My state, Oklahoma, leads the pack, to the shame of all my teaching friends. We are turning out people not educated enough to tell the difference between real and faux news.
5
I miss Mitt!
2
The real problem is Fox News. It is widely watched and its lies and propaganda go unquestioned by the vast majority of its viewers. All you have to do is watch Fox News for a few minutes to realize how we could have a President Trump. Fox News only tells a narrow, twisted narrative that is eagerly eaten up by people who desperately want to believe it is "Fair and Balanced." These same people do not use any other sources of news that may give another viewpoint on the issues. They just fill their ears with Rush Limbaugh during the day and watch Fox News at night and that is it. Fox News actually trains viewers on how to think and perceive issues and how to argue effectively with family and friends to turn them over to the Fox News agenda. Don't believe me? Just watch Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity. It is pure propaganda with some not so subliminal messaging to their followers. It is easy to see the alt-right stories are crazy, but the Fox News shows can fool the unsuspecting ordinary american into believing truly crazy stuff.
yes, we should challenge them but it won't do any good. when i posted the truth with the proof behind it on a family member's FB page, his response was "Well, it should happen!" it's called 'willful blindness' - they chose to not believe the truth as if it doesn't exist..........
The NY Times refused to publish any news story that would appear critical of Clinton, such as the Marc Turi case and Wikileaks. This is a form of censorship. It places our country at risk.
4
"Confirmation bias: a tendency for people to gather information or respond to a circumstance in a way that confirms to their already established beliefs or ideas." Howard Ross, Everyday Bias. If you're a person with racial bias or a bias that men should in the positions of leadership (as a CEO or a general in the military or president of the US), then you will ultimately be drawn to websites - or the information spread by them - like the ones described here. Or people you know will be, or you will see the lies posted by friends on FB, often well-meaning people who have never been to an alt-right website but believe the garbage churned from them. The ultimate result is the same: a huge number of Americans STILL believe that Obama wasn't born in the US or believe that Hillary committed murder. These lies are insidious and spread like the plague on the internet. A complicated problem in need of a very complicated solution.
1
This country has long had a crackpot right-wing media that fed closed, frightened, tribal minds preposterous ideas. My mother told us about Father Coughlin and his devoted ignorant audience that clung to ridiculous lies
I remember the McCarthy era in the early 1950s, when the mainstream media was seemingly intimidated and going right along with the HUAC and McCarthy's witch hunts that destroyed people's livelihood and lives.
A politicized FBI was very much involved. When I was about 10 or 11 in D.C., a stern man came to our door, flashed an FBI badge, & asked for my mother. I said she was out walking the dog, so he started asking me all kinds of questions about the habits of the man who lived next door. Very uncomfortable, I kept mumbling "I dunno." Was our neighbor a Communist or "had he ever been a Communist"? Who knows. He was a quiet man with a wife and 4 children.
So how did we finally get out of the McCarthy era and McCarthy end up disgraced? Persistent journalists with integrity like Edward R. Murrow who did a 4-year investigation of McCarthy and HUAC, and a very effective young lawyer Joseph Welch were key in exposing McCarthyism, its lies, & damage.
An irony: Roy Cohen, McCarthy's brutal lawyer, was the Trump's lawyer.
So this is not our first alt-right era, and here we go again. A credible press and media need to do their jobs the hard way. Investigate, document, report, & no more false equivalence. Shed the business model; use the professional model
I remember the McCarthy era in the early 1950s, when the mainstream media was seemingly intimidated and going right along with the HUAC and McCarthy's witch hunts that destroyed people's livelihood and lives.
A politicized FBI was very much involved. When I was about 10 or 11 in D.C., a stern man came to our door, flashed an FBI badge, & asked for my mother. I said she was out walking the dog, so he started asking me all kinds of questions about the habits of the man who lived next door. Very uncomfortable, I kept mumbling "I dunno." Was our neighbor a Communist or "had he ever been a Communist"? Who knows. He was a quiet man with a wife and 4 children.
So how did we finally get out of the McCarthy era and McCarthy end up disgraced? Persistent journalists with integrity like Edward R. Murrow who did a 4-year investigation of McCarthy and HUAC, and a very effective young lawyer Joseph Welch were key in exposing McCarthyism, its lies, & damage.
An irony: Roy Cohen, McCarthy's brutal lawyer, was the Trump's lawyer.
So this is not our first alt-right era, and here we go again. A credible press and media need to do their jobs the hard way. Investigate, document, report, & no more false equivalence. Shed the business model; use the professional model
149
"Make America Smart Again," Neil Degrasse Tyson.
This is basically apolitical; a woman asked me while looking through my telescope at a public event, if we were observing Earth.
I began to think about people not knowing where they are physically and emotionally. It is a sad state of affairs. It wasn't about elementary scientific knowledge, it was about a general detachment from reality. The one thing people do know about is, they are poor and suffering, and do not have time for the world around them. There is a cry for help from anybody.
The menu of helpers is limited.
This is basically apolitical; a woman asked me while looking through my telescope at a public event, if we were observing Earth.
I began to think about people not knowing where they are physically and emotionally. It is a sad state of affairs. It wasn't about elementary scientific knowledge, it was about a general detachment from reality. The one thing people do know about is, they are poor and suffering, and do not have time for the world around them. There is a cry for help from anybody.
The menu of helpers is limited.
63
Please, Mr. Kistof. You polls and odd indicator had Clinton so obviously ahead and a given that it was near senseless to even hold an election. There were lies, but not the ones you write about.
First, the sense of Americans that the mainstream media are highly biased and unethical was proven correct. CNN, MSNBC, the NYT, etc. The damage to your credibility will be long standing and I don't see any effort to correct it.
Second, the liberal / progressive left - violent and hate-filled - created a society where anyone - ANYONE - who dares have a different opinion is called uneducated, bigoted, racist, sexist, and "stupid".
So, what did we do? We kept our opinions to ourselves and on election day, we expressed our opinions in the privacy of the voting booth. All 60 million of us.
Clinton didn't lose because of media lies. She lost because the elite completely underestimated how much Americans like me have had it with the demonizing, the weak economy, the over the top political correctness and the weakening of our country.
She lost because the elite took us for fools.
But the fools voted and look now.....who's the fool?
You never saw it coming because the liberal left is so blinded by their own self-defined eliteness.
First, the sense of Americans that the mainstream media are highly biased and unethical was proven correct. CNN, MSNBC, the NYT, etc. The damage to your credibility will be long standing and I don't see any effort to correct it.
Second, the liberal / progressive left - violent and hate-filled - created a society where anyone - ANYONE - who dares have a different opinion is called uneducated, bigoted, racist, sexist, and "stupid".
So, what did we do? We kept our opinions to ourselves and on election day, we expressed our opinions in the privacy of the voting booth. All 60 million of us.
Clinton didn't lose because of media lies. She lost because the elite completely underestimated how much Americans like me have had it with the demonizing, the weak economy, the over the top political correctness and the weakening of our country.
She lost because the elite took us for fools.
But the fools voted and look now.....who's the fool?
You never saw it coming because the liberal left is so blinded by their own self-defined eliteness.
6
"The landscape ahead looks grim to me".
Perhaps the understatement of all time.
It wasn't a "squeaker' of an election. Fully 1/2 the country voted for a man endorsed by the KKK, David Duke and the NRA.
The other 1/2 of us voted for the "logical" choice and lost.
The "landscape" ahead for the United States seems etched in stone; a hard swing even righter, Defense industries profiting hugely and a thorough batch of quasi-fascists running the entire thing, executive, legislative and judiciary.
"Look what you got us into, Stanley" as Ollie stumbles and accidentally presses that "button" starting the "war to end all wars", a grim scenario but, now, very conceivable with a six year old, Mr. Trump, in charge.
"There's no cure for stupid" but the stupid do, apparently, know how to vote and their minds don't change.
I just wonder how things might have played out if the Democrats had really listened to Mr. Sanders instead of the "tried and true" Ms. Clinton?
Too late now as we have, at least, 4 years of Republican dominated government. But, hey, at least he's not a Kenyan like Mr. Obama nor a demon worshiper like Ms. Clinton. It would also seem that the term "Altright" is no longer correct; they ain't the "alternative" anymore, they're in power!
Perhaps the understatement of all time.
It wasn't a "squeaker' of an election. Fully 1/2 the country voted for a man endorsed by the KKK, David Duke and the NRA.
The other 1/2 of us voted for the "logical" choice and lost.
The "landscape" ahead for the United States seems etched in stone; a hard swing even righter, Defense industries profiting hugely and a thorough batch of quasi-fascists running the entire thing, executive, legislative and judiciary.
"Look what you got us into, Stanley" as Ollie stumbles and accidentally presses that "button" starting the "war to end all wars", a grim scenario but, now, very conceivable with a six year old, Mr. Trump, in charge.
"There's no cure for stupid" but the stupid do, apparently, know how to vote and their minds don't change.
I just wonder how things might have played out if the Democrats had really listened to Mr. Sanders instead of the "tried and true" Ms. Clinton?
Too late now as we have, at least, 4 years of Republican dominated government. But, hey, at least he's not a Kenyan like Mr. Obama nor a demon worshiper like Ms. Clinton. It would also seem that the term "Altright" is no longer correct; they ain't the "alternative" anymore, they're in power!
OK, per usual identifying a part of this cancerous contagion is simple. Like many professions though it is akin to looking thru a straw and confusing it with a wide angle panoramic magnified view. The first and most virulent and weaponized dissemination of the cancer is with "respected" "mainstream"media like the NY Times. The process is repeated daily. Report the lie, Hillary (the facts, twice elected Senator with rising margins, 18 million perhaps a majority of votes in 08, serves as SoS with distinction and rising approval ratings) is a flawed and compromised candidate because she is untrustworthy (the facts, she was the only one telling the truth!). Then report on the other media reports on the lie. Good work if you can get. Had "real" media simply asked the hard questions of Trump, to wit, "when are you going to apologize for your racist attack to delegitimize the Presidency." Non response from Trump begats follow up. Sir, by denigrating democracy and the office you now seek you damage the country, we really need an answer."
No what we did was further erode democracy to the point where it is hard to call democracy. Fewer voters selected Trump than Romney in loss. Hillary won what little popular vote there was. Sounds pretty broken. Dumb white folks bought the knock off at a scratch and dent sale and assert angrily its perfect. God help us. No reconciliation without truth.
No what we did was further erode democracy to the point where it is hard to call democracy. Fewer voters selected Trump than Romney in loss. Hillary won what little popular vote there was. Sounds pretty broken. Dumb white folks bought the knock off at a scratch and dent sale and assert angrily its perfect. God help us. No reconciliation without truth.
Something we rarely touch upon is the actual intelligence of people who are able to vote our futures. A professor of mine used to jokingly remind us students that half the population has an IQ under 100. The variation in intelligence is far broader than most expect. Someone once said that if humans' height varied as much as their intelligence, it would be common for people to be as short as three feet tall, and as tall as 16 feet. These people are capable of rational judgment, but much less likely than most to use it.
Then there are the people with plenty of horsepower and choose not to use it. Emotions and biases cause people to make terrible mistakes, and people rarely take the time to stop and process information, but instead "think fast" and allow impressions to form quickly and become immutable.
Finally one of the more spectacular things about the human psyche is the willingness to sometimes believe things that are extraordinary. Thus, we have people who are not insane joining cults, committing murder based on religious dogma, believing they were abducted by aliens and so forth.
Add to those human conditions the constant pounding, pounding, pounding of vicious lies and innuendo, which the right wing has mastered. Fox is brilliantly dishonest. The eagerly gullible and not-so-bright as well as those emotionally out of control suck up all this vitriol and these distasteful lies ... and then they vote the future of our country.
Then there are the people with plenty of horsepower and choose not to use it. Emotions and biases cause people to make terrible mistakes, and people rarely take the time to stop and process information, but instead "think fast" and allow impressions to form quickly and become immutable.
Finally one of the more spectacular things about the human psyche is the willingness to sometimes believe things that are extraordinary. Thus, we have people who are not insane joining cults, committing murder based on religious dogma, believing they were abducted by aliens and so forth.
Add to those human conditions the constant pounding, pounding, pounding of vicious lies and innuendo, which the right wing has mastered. Fox is brilliantly dishonest. The eagerly gullible and not-so-bright as well as those emotionally out of control suck up all this vitriol and these distasteful lies ... and then they vote the future of our country.
1
The notion that Democracy can be saved in two years is absurd. We are not going to see any more fair elections, i.e. based on the principle on one person, one vote. Districts in cities with millions will elect one Congress person while rural districts with only tens of thousands of voters will do the same. That's what gerrymandering is about. We'll probably find out in six months that voting machines were hacked here and there. Oh, well. And let's not expect Trump's supporters to be good winners. They are licking their chops at what they are going to do to the rest of us. Who is going to stop them? Steve Bannon? I expect Trump to carry out his threat to use the office of President to kill all suits against him. Adios, justice system. Anyone think he is going to divest himself of his business now? Yeah, right after he releases his tax returns. We don't need no stinkin' ethics. And Hillary could be in trouble for a change. Not just Congress. Attorney General Giuliani could make some nice headlines going after her while the alt-right solidifies power. God help us!
sorry this is not true. congressional districts are determined by population count. the same number of urban people get a congressional seat as the number of rural people do. the territorial size will vary depending on population density, and of course gerrymandering may corrupt the drawing of the lines, but neverthelees, the house of representatives is allocated according to population, no more no less
1
The Upshot did a piece on gerrymandering a year or two ago. The conclusion in the column was the small blue dots (metro areas and college towns) left very little room for gerrymandering. I'd like to see an updates on the piece as the Republicans control states over time, but we should be open to the idea that gerrymandering is widespread and consequential. I don't think it explains what happened in Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Ohio. This maybe an example of alt-left fiction.
1
Mr. Kristof has made a case for greatly improving our educational system, keeping children in school at least through high school and trying to make every single young mind—black, white, and every shade in between—strong enough and informed enough to make some fairly sophisticated judgments about truth. So far we have failed.
1
Meanwhile, corporate mass media has its own fake news.
Who has given supply side economics no criticism as it failed for decades?
Who took everything the Bush administration said about Iraq at face value, putting the administration's lies on the front page every day? Who let the military keep them stuck as imbedded reporters, seeing only what they wanted you to see?
Who spent a decade treating non-scientist climate deniers as equal to the 90 percent of climate scientists warning us of disaster?
Who regurgitates governmental propaganda about the "evil" of countries we want to attack, like Iran, while whitewashing the records of our supposed allies, like Saudi Arabia (which beheads and tortures far more people than ISIS, and funds extremists religious schools around the world)?
Who sent 50 reporters to cover 20 protesters at Tea Party Rallies, then took pictures of their signs against the sky to hide the small size of the crowd? The very same month, who ignored a take over of a park in downtown by thousands of Occupy protesters, who were sending out hundreds of marches a day across the city, for a full three weeks, until 700 arrests on the Brooklyn Bridge made it impossible ignore? Who then made fun of Occupy for months, even as it was changing the conversation about income inequality, the climate, etc, paving the way for the Fight for Fifteen, and other successful movements?
Alt News is a thing because corporate mass media has discredited itself by twisting the news.
Who has given supply side economics no criticism as it failed for decades?
Who took everything the Bush administration said about Iraq at face value, putting the administration's lies on the front page every day? Who let the military keep them stuck as imbedded reporters, seeing only what they wanted you to see?
Who spent a decade treating non-scientist climate deniers as equal to the 90 percent of climate scientists warning us of disaster?
Who regurgitates governmental propaganda about the "evil" of countries we want to attack, like Iran, while whitewashing the records of our supposed allies, like Saudi Arabia (which beheads and tortures far more people than ISIS, and funds extremists religious schools around the world)?
Who sent 50 reporters to cover 20 protesters at Tea Party Rallies, then took pictures of their signs against the sky to hide the small size of the crowd? The very same month, who ignored a take over of a park in downtown by thousands of Occupy protesters, who were sending out hundreds of marches a day across the city, for a full three weeks, until 700 arrests on the Brooklyn Bridge made it impossible ignore? Who then made fun of Occupy for months, even as it was changing the conversation about income inequality, the climate, etc, paving the way for the Fight for Fifteen, and other successful movements?
Alt News is a thing because corporate mass media has discredited itself by twisting the news.
No, this is the mistake of the Democratic party leadership and the elite media. The Democratic party is corrupt. They foisted Hillary Clinton on the public. That was stupid and they did it for cynical reasons. Bernie Sanders, Joe Biden, or Jim Webb could have defeated Trump. Working class men and women of any ethnicity would have stayed loyal to the Democratic party if the liberal elites would show some respect to the concerns of ordinary Americans.
6
Trump is now America's god - empowered to nod, with squinting eyes and pouting lower lip, his approval to supplicants in obeisance, or to howl, with twisted face, his vengeance upon his detractors (anyone still sane).
Trump has been deified by hate-faithed Evangelical Christians; by women who believe their role IS to serve men; by college educated men who got their degrees from the equivalent of Trump University; by coal miners who want jobs not an earth; by white men who think there are too many blacks, Muslims and undocumented immigrants in America; by everyday Republicans who believe Obama is a Muslim born in Kenya and Hillary is a serial killer.
Trump has been deified by people who are living in a neo-Dark Ages; their intention is to drag America into the Dark Ages of the Republican Party's world of religious superstition, ignorance and lies.
Trump has been deified by hate-faithed Evangelical Christians; by women who believe their role IS to serve men; by college educated men who got their degrees from the equivalent of Trump University; by coal miners who want jobs not an earth; by white men who think there are too many blacks, Muslims and undocumented immigrants in America; by everyday Republicans who believe Obama is a Muslim born in Kenya and Hillary is a serial killer.
Trump has been deified by people who are living in a neo-Dark Ages; their intention is to drag America into the Dark Ages of the Republican Party's world of religious superstition, ignorance and lies.
1
Yes, the media gave Trump a 'huge' pass. But you gave Hillary a shameful pass also, and you ignore this. You want us to give you a pass too?
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"If you get your news from this newspaper or our rival mainstream news sources, there's probably a lot you don't know."
LIke reporting on all the sub-contractors Trump ripped off.
Like reporting on all the ties to foreign powers Trump has.
Like reporting on all the students his fake "university" stole from.
Like reporting on all the lawsuits he's involved in.
Like reporting on all the days in court he will have to spend.
Like reporting on all the lies he tells and denies.
Not to mention all the omissions of earlier candidate's hugely supported events.
Lying by omission and distortion actually can do more damage than outright lies that most people can see are ridiculous.
What news to trust, now?
LIke reporting on all the sub-contractors Trump ripped off.
Like reporting on all the ties to foreign powers Trump has.
Like reporting on all the students his fake "university" stole from.
Like reporting on all the lawsuits he's involved in.
Like reporting on all the days in court he will have to spend.
Like reporting on all the lies he tells and denies.
Not to mention all the omissions of earlier candidate's hugely supported events.
Lying by omission and distortion actually can do more damage than outright lies that most people can see are ridiculous.
What news to trust, now?
2
I always wanted reporter's to ask Trump if he would reimburse those contractors he stiffed and whose lives he destroyed now that he has more than enough money to do so.
1
But if the times lies, it's okay. I read the statement by the Public Editor. This type of editorial is typical of the Times policy. It's all the alt-right. But we at the times are pure of heart.
7
I hoep Roger Ailes is proud of what he has done to this country.
2
A large portion of America took a guy who thought it would be cool to fly a plane, and with no experience or training, put him at the controls of the 747 we're all flying on, coming in to land.
Will we land safely? Will we crash and burn?? Who knows?!!?!
But it will be huge!!!
Already, Trump has abandoned what few policies he had and is marching lockstep with the GOP. Ryan's plan for gutting Medicare, privatizing Social Security, raising eligibility ages for both - that's what's on the table now.
Won't it be grand!
And forget about draining that swamp!. Trump's list reads like a who's who of GOP politics. Lots of longtime pols, many who have left office in disgrace or have pending lawsuits. A really family values group - why most of them have multiple marriages to prove it! Steve Bannon and Joe Arpaio will really reassure minority Americans that changes will be fair.
Trump supporters got played, and we all have to cover their bet.
Will we land safely? Will we crash and burn?? Who knows?!!?!
But it will be huge!!!
Already, Trump has abandoned what few policies he had and is marching lockstep with the GOP. Ryan's plan for gutting Medicare, privatizing Social Security, raising eligibility ages for both - that's what's on the table now.
Won't it be grand!
And forget about draining that swamp!. Trump's list reads like a who's who of GOP politics. Lots of longtime pols, many who have left office in disgrace or have pending lawsuits. A really family values group - why most of them have multiple marriages to prove it! Steve Bannon and Joe Arpaio will really reassure minority Americans that changes will be fair.
Trump supporters got played, and we all have to cover their bet.
1
Mr.Kristof,
Trying to pin the alt-right websites or the David Duke endorsement on Trump, who had little control over them
makes you drift towards the alt-left.
Trying to pin the alt-right websites or the David Duke endorsement on Trump, who had little control over them
makes you drift towards the alt-left.
5
Why do you need to go elsewhere to look for fictional news when you can just look in NYT? For example, that Trump is more interested in using power to get sex than are or were, or is a misogynist than, Barney Frank, Bill Clinton, JFK, Teddy Kennedy, Gerry Studds, or any number of other Democratic politicians. You hold Trumo to a different standard and report accordingly.
4
Telling it like it is; vol. 1 - The Press
The press sold out. How?
- Unprecedented access by Trump
- over $1 bil. In free unrestricted advertising
- False equivalency
- maintaining focus on unproven "scandalous behavior" by Clinton
- intimidation of The media by Trump.
To those patriots in the press: Your sacrifice saves America. Help instead of hindering the protesters who Are showing the real Donald Trump.
The press sold out. How?
- Unprecedented access by Trump
- over $1 bil. In free unrestricted advertising
- False equivalency
- maintaining focus on unproven "scandalous behavior" by Clinton
- intimidation of The media by Trump.
To those patriots in the press: Your sacrifice saves America. Help instead of hindering the protesters who Are showing the real Donald Trump.
The slippery, foggy ground on social media poses a special risk for the news media because it is increasingly a source of what we rush to cover in hopes it will bring us traffic so we can survive. It's as true for the Times as anywhere else outside the small, advertising-dominant markets where Warren Buffet invests in print. I suspect history will conclude that Facebook, Twitter, the Macedonian kids and the alt-right all fed off the corpse left after Craigslist killed classified revenue. I hope not.
I disagree with your comment that now is not the time for demonstrations against Trump. You are just echoing that old after election mantra, “now is the time for coming together, etc., etc.” No, now we must gather together for the next four years to combat, as well as we can, the damage that Trump is going to inflict on the country. Surrounded as he is becoming by, birthers, climate deniers, abortion haters, anti-health, anti-science and anti-tax adherents; he leaves us no choice but to combat his reactionary policies as best we can. Don’t forget, that anti-war demonstrations pushed Johnson into his early retirement, and haunted Nixon and fed his paranoia for five years. Such activities can educated the nation and influence decisions at the top.
2
Thank you so much for the great article. The nations is at a huge crisis with the manipulation by the alt right. They figured out many years ago that they could never win any election without fraud and misinformation. They devised ways like gerrymandering, infiltration in FBI, Supreme Court and spreading vicious lies. And, it worked. They got energized. We have elected a pathological liar, bully, groper king and free loader. It is a sad day for the entire world. Our basic social fabric is on the brink of collapse.
Perhaps Gresham's Law, "bad money drives out good," can be more useful in talking about news today and not merely an epithet. Gresham's Law is based on the idea that money has (or, at least, used to have) two values, the exchange value printed on the money and the value of the underlying metal if you melted it down and sold it. Perhaps the corresponding values for news are the amount of perceived importance on the surface, versus the amount of actual truth beneath.
The dynamic of Gresham's Law is that people possessing money with different ratios of face value to underlying value will circulate the money with less relative underlying value because they would rather keep the money with the most underlying value. Perhaps the analog is that people may circulate the less truthful information because it's less labor-intensive to create, or repeat, unsubstantiated news than it is to make the effort to determine its truth.
If we can bring down the cost of determining the truth of news, and if news that has been so determined can be effectively circulated, maybe we can get more truth into circulation. Can we use models like Wikipedia and the Open Source movement to help that? Could we create a huge crowd of fact checkers, working for free? Could we create rules and a process for fact checking? Could we create a quality seal to be associated with news that has been vetted by a principled, fact-checking crowd?
The dynamic of Gresham's Law is that people possessing money with different ratios of face value to underlying value will circulate the money with less relative underlying value because they would rather keep the money with the most underlying value. Perhaps the analog is that people may circulate the less truthful information because it's less labor-intensive to create, or repeat, unsubstantiated news than it is to make the effort to determine its truth.
If we can bring down the cost of determining the truth of news, and if news that has been so determined can be effectively circulated, maybe we can get more truth into circulation. Can we use models like Wikipedia and the Open Source movement to help that? Could we create a huge crowd of fact checkers, working for free? Could we create rules and a process for fact checking? Could we create a quality seal to be associated with news that has been vetted by a principled, fact-checking crowd?
Willful, gleeful ignorance, thinly 'rationalized' by the many largely false claims of harm done by globalization, immigration, and trade, were at the base of trump's 'win'.
This is politics played as 3D chess, while many of us are playing tic-tac-toe...
So here's the choice.... Go To War against these forces of evil, or watch the planet do a slow burn while, world-wide, humans are further stripped of their dignity.
STOP WALLOWING IN 'ENTERTAINMENT ! Drop facebook (a disgusting, soulless, enterprise), actively discredit lies, and support only legitimate media that fights for truth !!!
That's a start !!!
This is politics played as 3D chess, while many of us are playing tic-tac-toe...
So here's the choice.... Go To War against these forces of evil, or watch the planet do a slow burn while, world-wide, humans are further stripped of their dignity.
STOP WALLOWING IN 'ENTERTAINMENT ! Drop facebook (a disgusting, soulless, enterprise), actively discredit lies, and support only legitimate media that fights for truth !!!
That's a start !!!
Interesting article. When you have sites that gather and disseminate information be it right or wrong, it seems that using that site to promote your website is a no brainer business model. A single falsehood can become the cornerstone of a narrative that spreads like the plague. When you couple that with ongoing attacks on the regular news questioning their veracity you really have a recipe for mischief. I have no idea how to make it better. I only know that fact and truth is at the heart of a free and democratic people.
Tell me please how to get better in touch with an unemployed steel worker, who while looking for a good paying job, continually votes for the same party whose agenda is basically to break up the unions that helped create those good paying jobs?
1
If the DNC had allowed the primaries to be a fair contest rather than "rigged" and if HRC had listened to the "everyman" rather than attending high net worth cocktail parties, the outcome my have been different. Citizens have a dislike for those that act entitled and may make poor choices rather than elect them. Further, suggesting that Trump is a sexual predator while her husband was known for much worse (cigar) and her closest aide is married to a strange fellow didn't help.
The DNC proposed the wrong candidate and perhaps unfortunately. Hope for the best.
The DNC proposed the wrong candidate and perhaps unfortunately. Hope for the best.
1
I hope the NYT will now cover right wing media as a powerful institution in our political system. and that its editors and writers will remember that readers of the alt right are not reading the nyt or listening to NPR. The alt media is not a right wing version of the mainstream media. Judging by the anger and hatred expressed by those who read / listen to it exclusively, it's propaganda designed to divide our nation and turn huge numbers of people against mainstream beliefs and to see them as less than. When you combine alt right with ownership of machine guns, "We have a problem Huston!"
2
I can't believe that a writer in this Banana Republic newspaper actually has the audacity to point out negative coverage of Santa Hillary. Maybe, Mr. Kristof can take this challenge. Go back thirty days before the election and count the number of negative columns about Trump as opposed to Santa Hillary. I'll bet the final count would demonstrate the propaganda organ that is the NYT and mainstream media.
2
A neighbor just told me about her trip to a local grocery yesterday. The checker was giddy with the election because: if Hillary had won, she was going to jail and that old man(Kaine) would be president; her daddy and granddaddy had fought in the wars and they would hate to see all those foreigners here; and Hillary was going to allow abortions up to 9 months and that is murder.
What does one do with people like these? Some of us have retired to the western NC mountains from other places and have added greatly to the well-being of the natives. Hopefully, in time this polarizing, wrong-headed thinking with die out.
What does one do with people like these? Some of us have retired to the western NC mountains from other places and have added greatly to the well-being of the natives. Hopefully, in time this polarizing, wrong-headed thinking with die out.
1
Throughout the election, the NYT was a safe space for us liberal readers in that the articles, columns, and reader comments were all in line with our viewpoint. But the NYT did not provide a thorough look at the views of republican voters. Michael Moore predicted the Trump win even back in July. He was spot on. When people have lost good jobs, feel hopeless, and most income growth is for the 1%, offering a Democratic candidate who was more of the same was a mistake.
3
This coming from the News source that essentially led the media into their own mess. The NYT has authored countless hit pieces against trump and others over the past year, often hiding behind their editorial staff and refusing to retract often totally inaccurate information.
I have been saying this since the election started, the NYT does nothing but panders to it own kind and is so out of touch that it borders on the same extreme outlook, you criticize today. It's sort of like sending DeBlasio to Iowa to campaign.... that worked so well.
At least Bernie Sanders is a stand up guy, admits defeat and the weakness of his party and looks to make Trumps presidency a positive. Not so at the NYT, oh no, it's back to the old ways...
I have been saying this since the election started, the NYT does nothing but panders to it own kind and is so out of touch that it borders on the same extreme outlook, you criticize today. It's sort of like sending DeBlasio to Iowa to campaign.... that worked so well.
At least Bernie Sanders is a stand up guy, admits defeat and the weakness of his party and looks to make Trumps presidency a positive. Not so at the NYT, oh no, it's back to the old ways...
1
Trump got less votes than Romney did.
Ain't buying it.
Ain't buying it.
1
Good article. The uninformed, uneducated masses. I still believe that many of these alt-righters still haven't gotten over the civil war, they live in a bubble and seem hard done by. The rise of Fascism is at our doorstep and must be stopped. It is literally tearing this beautiful country apart.
And now, one of the champions of political dirty tricks, Steve Bannon of Breitbart News, has been given a prominent role on Trump's team.
Breitbart, they of huge front page headlines and edited videos, and small, last page retractions, that no one sees or if they do, they ignore.
Years ago, these snake oil salesmen could be ignored because their audience was limited to whoever was in earshot of their soapbox. Now, with the internet, they can spread their lies and misinformation to millions, with the click of a button.
Breitbart, they of huge front page headlines and edited videos, and small, last page retractions, that no one sees or if they do, they ignore.
Years ago, these snake oil salesmen could be ignored because their audience was limited to whoever was in earshot of their soapbox. Now, with the internet, they can spread their lies and misinformation to millions, with the click of a button.
It distresses me to see the media adopt the term "alt-right", likely because its brevity suits headlines and tweets. This term helps to normalize a despicable group. Please find a way to call them what they are: racists, xenophobes, white supremacists.
1
Dear Mr. Kirstof,
Please don't ignore your own newspaper in this election fiasco. Someone had done a research on NYT's reporting - excessively on Clinton Foundation, Clinton emails and "likeability of Clinton".
Saturday Night comedy had it right - No matter what Trump say or did it never got the attention like Clinton's emails.
I understand NYT also wants to sell newspapers and readers are not interested in dull issues.
Please don't ignore your own newspaper in this election fiasco. Someone had done a research on NYT's reporting - excessively on Clinton Foundation, Clinton emails and "likeability of Clinton".
Saturday Night comedy had it right - No matter what Trump say or did it never got the attention like Clinton's emails.
I understand NYT also wants to sell newspapers and readers are not interested in dull issues.
2
Wow. I just made note in a couple other comments sections then found this. So, many are looking for nice rational explanations for Trumps success. Dare I say you are looking at a man who learned to swim in the sea of alt-right media; the yellow journalism of the digital age. I would suggest if you look at who, what, and where there was resonance for birtherism, other alt-right threads, and understand how Breibart guys could point Donald toward those trap-lines for and emotional, dog whistle response, his "success" can be explained, as well as the failure of conventional polling techniques and analysis. There is a substratum to the vitriol that transcends rational analysis. If you have a workplace where Trump voters exist, take a look over their shoulder sometime during break, and see where they are getting their information from, and what kind of information it is.
Didn't this paper just apologize for lying for the past year?
3
Continue believing that far-left websites are more acceptable than those on the far-right and you and the NYT will proceed further down the path to irrelevancy. Serious people today do not take your publication seriously. Reject this truth if you wish, and the right will smile and say "thank you."
2
Propaganda trumps facts.
Propaganda trumps news.
Opinion is conflated with news.
Opinionators mistake their views as the voice of people beyond their echo chambers.
The voice of the people is very often the shouting of the mob.
No new news there. The bell curve at work.
More subtle at the NYT and the WSJ and more in your face at the Weekly Standard or Breitbart.
Propaganda trumps news.
Opinion is conflated with news.
Opinionators mistake their views as the voice of people beyond their echo chambers.
The voice of the people is very often the shouting of the mob.
No new news there. The bell curve at work.
More subtle at the NYT and the WSJ and more in your face at the Weekly Standard or Breitbart.
1
bigger concern are the lies spread by theoretically trusted news sources like the Times.
2
You don't need to go to "alt-right" or other fringe web sites for this craziness.
Hark back to the first days of the Obama inauguration with Fox News (It is always painful to write those two words together) running stories about Obama's plans to set up concentration camps for conservatives or about his plans to confiscate guns on a massive scale.
Who needs these types or radical web sites to push fake news when there's a major cable network doing the same?
Hark back to the first days of the Obama inauguration with Fox News (It is always painful to write those two words together) running stories about Obama's plans to set up concentration camps for conservatives or about his plans to confiscate guns on a massive scale.
Who needs these types or radical web sites to push fake news when there's a major cable network doing the same?
Kristoff makes the same point I have made many times about what I call the mediascape. But what is the solution? How do you get people to separate fact from fiction... or even make them interested in doing so when it isn't entertaining? Our institutions and the very republic depend on finding the answer.
Excellent piece, Nick Kristof - "Lies in the Guise of News in the Trump Era". He, being Trump, lied his way into the Presidency and now millions of Americans are depressed and angry and definitely down in the dumps. Even though Mrs. Clinton won the popular vote (GOOD ON HER!) the Electoral College (which should be killed liked the many-headed Hydra it's been in our presidential election process since the Year Dot - 1836) put the kibosh on her candidacy and raised Donald Trump to the heights of the Oval Office and the White House. "The poisonous 2016 campaign" is NOT behind us, Nick! President-Elect Trump's scary and feeble list of possible department heads and Chief of Staff, cabinet members and all the other bananas who will be running our bunch of government till the new broom tires of trying to "drain the swamp". Are we living in a Disney Fantasia - almost night on Bald Mountain? Who is the Sorcerer's Apprentice? Obviously the malign American press and social media that swept Trump into office on the waves of lies, mendacity and venom along with weaving gold - just gilt - out of straw like Rumpelstiltskin did before he met his end. This Trump Presidency is a fairy tale out of Aesop and the big frog is now "the downright fool and narcissistic moron" that prescient H.L. Mencken eerily predicted would be our President 96 years ago in 1920.
The Democratic Party is completely prostrate, having lost not only the Senate and the House but most state legislatures and governorships. Rather than rail at the Republicans for winning and putting down those who voted for them, the Democrats must figure out what they must do to prevent themselves from being completely marginalized. There is a third party waiting in the wings that will take over unless Democrats can rise to the challenge of making themselves relevant to the times.
We now have a president elect who lent credibility and legitimacy to alt-right lies and distortions by making it a practice of repeating them at his rallies and re-tweeting them. Had you been more diligent in refuting these alt-right lies, your efforts would have just been dismissed by his followers as the liberal propaganda of the "MSM" (Mainstream Media). At every Trump rally, he went to great lengths to demonize and denigrate the media who were confined, like animals, to cages. As Trump's positions on issues such as climate change indicate, facts and accepted science do not matter to him. He has polluted the waters of political discourse. We are in for a rough four years with this charlatan.
I was dumbfounded by how many people posted stuff from faux news sites on their Facebook timelines.
My only conclusion can be that most Trump voters are in fact, not very well educated.
My only conclusion can be that most Trump voters are in fact, not very well educated.
The NY Times has a constant agenda and biased spin. Lies? Not sure, but blatant bias evident every day.
3
Dear Mr. Kristof:
You have left out along with the racist aspects of the alt-right, its anti-semitic aspects. People on the left, as with the anti-semitic problems with Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party in the UK, tend to forget that anti-semitism still exists in both the left and the right.
In fact, if you read Breitbart and other alt-right websites, classical anti-semitic bromides right out of the pages of the Protocols of the Elder of Zion appear. In their view, all other racial and liberal groups are being controlled by the International Jewish Banking Conspiracy.
There was even a Trump ad approved by the candidate, of course, that pushed the international banker consipracy with pictures of prominent Jews (of course tastefully without explicitly mentioning their Jewishness) throughout the ad.
Will Bannon, who will certainly have influence in a big way in the Trump administration, push these and other racist views now that they are in power? Time will tell, but history would say at least to be aware of such trends and to stamp them out as best one can.
You have left out along with the racist aspects of the alt-right, its anti-semitic aspects. People on the left, as with the anti-semitic problems with Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party in the UK, tend to forget that anti-semitism still exists in both the left and the right.
In fact, if you read Breitbart and other alt-right websites, classical anti-semitic bromides right out of the pages of the Protocols of the Elder of Zion appear. In their view, all other racial and liberal groups are being controlled by the International Jewish Banking Conspiracy.
There was even a Trump ad approved by the candidate, of course, that pushed the international banker consipracy with pictures of prominent Jews (of course tastefully without explicitly mentioning their Jewishness) throughout the ad.
Will Bannon, who will certainly have influence in a big way in the Trump administration, push these and other racist views now that they are in power? Time will tell, but history would say at least to be aware of such trends and to stamp them out as best one can.
1
The mainstream media, including you Nicholas, must assume some of the blame for this election with your unending coverage of Trump. And no, I will NEVER accept him as president. I will never utter the word president in association with his name. Also, the media's unending mention of how unlivable Hillary is steered many against her. The FBI's Comey and his last minute input was the final influence on this election.
1
Campaign spending by the democrats for Hillary - about $1.5 billion. By the GOP for Trump - about $100 million. Outspent by Hillary 15 to 1 and he still won. The media had little to do with Trump's victory; and everything to do with his message.
2
Give it up, NYT. You have not witnessed anything other than a political election, a US institution that repeats itself every four years and an ugly price we pay for a wonderful democracy. It is time to come together! Accept your part of the blame and move on. The political cartoon of Truman holding a newspaper with the headline "Media Defeats Trump" says it all.
2
Yes, the media could have done a better job and, yes, in the future the media does need to confront lies and say exactly why they are lies. But don't beat yourself up too much. The information about Trump and his lies, cheating, moral bankruptcy was out there and easy to find. The New York Times itself has had many interviews and quote after quote from Trump supporters who know what he is and what he has done and they still voted for him. They are so intend on teaching the 'Elites' a lesson they voted against themselves ("cutting off your nose to spite your face" applies here). As quoted in another NYT article, a Ms. Meadows voted for trump to "shake things up" in Washington, etc. At the end she says that she hopes that her daughter doesn't lose her Affordable Care insurance. Well, Ms. Meadows, guess what going to happen. And when your daughter can't get medical help, will you blame yourself or still blame the Elites?
1
The Mass Media either completely ignored Senator Sanders, or ridiculed him. The Super Delegates came out supporting HRC,before any of the democratic debates.Polls projected Sanders would beat Trump.I believe he would have.Yes I voted for HRC.The DNC needs to rebuild,and return again to supporting working and middle class people,not Wall Street.
I shudder to think what is going to happen in the next 4 years.The Democrats need to get their ducks in a row,for 2020. No more coronations.Listen to the people.
I shudder to think what is going to happen in the next 4 years.The Democrats need to get their ducks in a row,for 2020. No more coronations.Listen to the people.
4
All too sadly true. But these abominations would not exist if there was not substantial market for, and acceptance of, them. After all, as I learned in physics, you can't push a rope. Or cheat an honest man, from common sense.
1
This is rich coming from the NY Times which just admitted that it broke all rules of fairness in reporting to destroy Trump. Why would the Gray Lady admit this? Turns out, readership is down and subscription cancelations are up because it allowed personal hatred of Donald Trump to dictate its willingness to abandon all ethical responsibilities of a national newspaper organization. If Sulzberger was serious about this mea culpa, he would launch an independent investigation of how much pressure was put on the reporters. Then, based on the findings, he would most likely be obligated to fire Editor-in-Chief, Dean Baquet.
Here’s an unrealistic suggestion – Add some conservative journalists to the staff so the Gray Lady can once again report with honesty and fairness and perhaps regain its long lost reputation. Short of this, either (i) the NY Times is not sincere in its regrets for what it did, in which case, I will have to assume it was only driven by the need to recover from the declining profits trend, or (ii) Sulzberger was behind this or encouraged it. While this inexcusable behavior by a national newspaper isn’t solely to blame for pushing so many that voted for Obama in the last election to vote for Trump this time, it is undeniable that it was a factor. I guess the Trump voters owe a debt of gratitude to all the Trump bashing media outlets and pundits. Bash both candidates equally and don’t unfairly twist the story because the readers are savvier you think.
Here’s an unrealistic suggestion – Add some conservative journalists to the staff so the Gray Lady can once again report with honesty and fairness and perhaps regain its long lost reputation. Short of this, either (i) the NY Times is not sincere in its regrets for what it did, in which case, I will have to assume it was only driven by the need to recover from the declining profits trend, or (ii) Sulzberger was behind this or encouraged it. While this inexcusable behavior by a national newspaper isn’t solely to blame for pushing so many that voted for Obama in the last election to vote for Trump this time, it is undeniable that it was a factor. I guess the Trump voters owe a debt of gratitude to all the Trump bashing media outlets and pundits. Bash both candidates equally and don’t unfairly twist the story because the readers are savvier you think.
4
The Times, and oped writers such as Kristof, also push an agenda. Recommended reading. This piece by Alastair Crooke.
https://consortiumnews.com/2016/11/12/trumps-win-a-rebuke-to-the-elites/
https://consortiumnews.com/2016/11/12/trumps-win-a-rebuke-to-the-elites/
2
This column is a dishonest and shameful evasion. If it really wanted to address the media being untruthful in this election period it should have stated: "The NYT regrets that it abandoned journalism and, instead, engaged in a daily and relentless, biased campaign to promote Hillary Clinton and discredit and defeat Donald Trump. It purposedly ignored Wikileaks' revelations and the blatant and illegal conflict of interest that was in Secretary Clinton's soliciting and accepting tens of millions of Dollars from foreign nations as and companies while serving as the US Secretary of State."
7
You mentioned not investigating Trump. Nor did you do a good job of untangling the Clinton Foundation web. And other elements of Mrs. Clintons problems. These sites pop up partly due to the perception, not entirely wrong, that most major US media markets have a liberal bias. And for a "snapshot" of that, just go back and review the look on the faces of the TV news folks on Tuesday night! Many were struggling to maintain their composure. So, for a big part of the country you (NY based media) are not seen as truthful, and as deliberately promoting a liberal agenda. Several people chide me for bothering to read the NYT at all!
3
Kristof I barely read NY Times since January 2016 when it became clear to me that this venerable paper was campaigning for Hillary. Donald Trump's indiscretions aka the Billy Bush tape were magnified regardless this happened back in 2005. Whereas Hillary Clinton's associations with Wall St. and big business were not investigated and these were a recent vintage. The bias became so bad that NYT wanted to downplay the ill effects of global trade. NYT's trustworthiness to deliver unbiased news had deteriorated, in my view, that come Election Night, I skipped NYT website altogether and was switching between CNN and ABC, both of which called Hillary's loss approximately 20 minutes earlier than NYT.
These alternative / fake news sites will continue to flourish as long as the respected news outlets such as NYT continue to support a party.
These alternative / fake news sites will continue to flourish as long as the respected news outlets such as NYT continue to support a party.
6
On Thursday Kristoff told us to"Yet, like it or not, we Americans have a new president-elect, and it’s time to buck up"
"Let’s give him a chance — for those are our democratic values."
While Trump voters voted their economic anxiety, they also condones hatred, racism, and violence not to mention disrespect, misogyny, and those other qualities like not renouncing the KKK and anti-Semitism. Read an interview with Robert Paxton, Professor Emeritus of Social Science at Columbia that appeared in Slate last February on the similarities and dissimilarities with the rise of Fascism. As Kristof said last week, "We are not Weimar Germany." it si true. We are a people who idolize violence.
"Let’s give him a chance — for those are our democratic values."
While Trump voters voted their economic anxiety, they also condones hatred, racism, and violence not to mention disrespect, misogyny, and those other qualities like not renouncing the KKK and anti-Semitism. Read an interview with Robert Paxton, Professor Emeritus of Social Science at Columbia that appeared in Slate last February on the similarities and dissimilarities with the rise of Fascism. As Kristof said last week, "We are not Weimar Germany." it si true. We are a people who idolize violence.
I've been focusing not so much on this alt-right news, but rather on the kinds of people who naively buy into blatantly manipulative conservative "news": how is it that some people immediately see through such manipulation while others accept it as fact?
I had the same feeling back in the 1970s and 80s with the TV preachers of sleazy Christianity fame, the Jim and Tammy Bakkers of the world. Even as a young high school student I couldn't for the life of me understand how or why people gullibly fell for their snake-oil Christianity. The whole thing was a blatant house of cards, a Crystal Palace, why couldn't people see through this?
Then it dawned on me that we dealing with the same phenomena here, the same naive Bible Belt Americans who fell for the Tammy Bakkers are the ones who today are falling for alt-right Fox News, hook line and sinker. And there is a real historical connection between the two, between American pseudo-Christianity and alt-right conservatism, as we see embodied in the likes of the Pat Robertsons, the Jerry Falwells, Oral Roberts, Jimmy Swaggart, etc etc etc.
This is the realm of belief, belief without critical judgment, and the two together are a dangerously toxic mix, as we are seeing unfold.
I had the same feeling back in the 1970s and 80s with the TV preachers of sleazy Christianity fame, the Jim and Tammy Bakkers of the world. Even as a young high school student I couldn't for the life of me understand how or why people gullibly fell for their snake-oil Christianity. The whole thing was a blatant house of cards, a Crystal Palace, why couldn't people see through this?
Then it dawned on me that we dealing with the same phenomena here, the same naive Bible Belt Americans who fell for the Tammy Bakkers are the ones who today are falling for alt-right Fox News, hook line and sinker. And there is a real historical connection between the two, between American pseudo-Christianity and alt-right conservatism, as we see embodied in the likes of the Pat Robertsons, the Jerry Falwells, Oral Roberts, Jimmy Swaggart, etc etc etc.
This is the realm of belief, belief without critical judgment, and the two together are a dangerously toxic mix, as we are seeing unfold.
138
Recently a Facebook friend posted a meme that didn't sound right to me. I fact-checked it and replied, suggesting further reading with links to more accurate reports. My friend replied, "I stand behind how I feel." Bingo! People aren't interested in facts, they want/need need feelings and opinions validated.
143
Is the irony of your assertion here intentional?
This is just the evolutionary step in the Southern Strategy that started 50 years ago and used talk like states rights, welfare queens, the death tax, tax cuts for the job creators.
It is sad the the left has to spend so much time responding to misinformation from the right that would be better spent fixing real problems like poverty, health care, and education.
But that is part of the Republican strategy and it works well. It keeps their voters angry and fearful and preoccupied so they don't see the Republicans cutting taxes for the wealthy and social programs for them.
It is typical magician stuff, look at my left hand so as not to see what my right hand is doing.
It is sad the the left has to spend so much time responding to misinformation from the right that would be better spent fixing real problems like poverty, health care, and education.
But that is part of the Republican strategy and it works well. It keeps their voters angry and fearful and preoccupied so they don't see the Republicans cutting taxes for the wealthy and social programs for them.
It is typical magician stuff, look at my left hand so as not to see what my right hand is doing.
Maybe there were things NYT readers didn't know because the NYT was so grossly biased in favor Clinton. You laughed Bernie Sanders out of the room when you deigned to cover him. You portrayed Trump's supporters as dumb yahoos. You failed to examine fully the corruption so many found distasteful in Clinton -- the tides of money that flow through the Clinton Foundation and constitute a patronage system for her machine. Your reporters are pretty cozy with John Podesta.
3
Dear Mr. Kristof,
While it is true that the population's attention to alt-right websites is a serious problem, your failure to correctly analyze its cause is stunning. Or, perhaps I should say, completely predicable.
You claim that the problem with mainstream news outlets, like the NY Times, is that they/you "haven't been visiting enough steel-workers".
This is a joke, right?
If you want to understand why large segments of the population no longer trust mainstream news, you have to read something like Chomsky's "Manufacturing Consent".
These segments of the population are not stupid. They correctly sense that something is wrong with mainstream news. Unfortunately, the only alternative they see is dark conspiracy stories.
There is a true analysis of the problem with mainstream news (see above-mentioned book). But now we're talking about something that both political parties see as really dangerous for people to know about.
They would much rather have people believe alt-right conspiracy theories, than see the truth.
While it is true that the population's attention to alt-right websites is a serious problem, your failure to correctly analyze its cause is stunning. Or, perhaps I should say, completely predicable.
You claim that the problem with mainstream news outlets, like the NY Times, is that they/you "haven't been visiting enough steel-workers".
This is a joke, right?
If you want to understand why large segments of the population no longer trust mainstream news, you have to read something like Chomsky's "Manufacturing Consent".
These segments of the population are not stupid. They correctly sense that something is wrong with mainstream news. Unfortunately, the only alternative they see is dark conspiracy stories.
There is a true analysis of the problem with mainstream news (see above-mentioned book). But now we're talking about something that both political parties see as really dangerous for people to know about.
They would much rather have people believe alt-right conspiracy theories, than see the truth.
3
Masha Gessen said, chillingly, on the Rachel Maddow Show the other night that the takeover of a society begins with the weakening of the press. She should know. While the mainstream press, which relies on truth to tell a story, is chipped away at little by little, state-sponsored or approved outlets are given free reign. One day (perhaps it will come sooner than we anticipate), the people who voted for Trump will be disappointed. By that point, there will be no free press to chronicle their anger. I don't want to see the NYTimes groveling and second-guessing itself...we need you!
1
I was hoping that, in evaluating the "lies in the guise of news" that characterized the lead-up to the election, he would have included the NY Times, which became an organ of the Democratic Party.
Its own publisher has acknowledged that the NY Times failed to maintain a neutral, objective approach.
I have been reading the NY Times since 1966. So, a long time. Over the years, I have seen its quality go up and its quality go down. The months leading up to the election were the low point.
Its own publisher has acknowledged that the NY Times failed to maintain a neutral, objective approach.
I have been reading the NY Times since 1966. So, a long time. Over the years, I have seen its quality go up and its quality go down. The months leading up to the election were the low point.
2
In one form or another, as seen from this op-ed piece the NY Times is attempting to find answers of why Donald Trump has been elected the 45th President of the United States,
Were articles and op-eds written in advance on Hillary Clinton making history becoming POTUS 45 with the asterisk, first woman holding this office? In some respects probably because the NY Times since both candidates became their party's nominee had Hillary Clinton winning the election well over 80% most of that time and usually over 90%.
Perhaps the NY Times can help ease the pain of those distraught of the outcome by dedicating a week or so by creating a section "Only If" and publish op-ed and articles as though Hillary Clinton won the election.
Sadly though there are many center to left, like Mr. Kristoff believing "alt-right " sites played a major role in people's decision on who they were going to vote for in this election, when in fact Kelly Ann Conway has been telling everyone why Trump would win the election the past week before the election when she was asked that question.
Next time pay attention......
Were articles and op-eds written in advance on Hillary Clinton making history becoming POTUS 45 with the asterisk, first woman holding this office? In some respects probably because the NY Times since both candidates became their party's nominee had Hillary Clinton winning the election well over 80% most of that time and usually over 90%.
Perhaps the NY Times can help ease the pain of those distraught of the outcome by dedicating a week or so by creating a section "Only If" and publish op-ed and articles as though Hillary Clinton won the election.
Sadly though there are many center to left, like Mr. Kristoff believing "alt-right " sites played a major role in people's decision on who they were going to vote for in this election, when in fact Kelly Ann Conway has been telling everyone why Trump would win the election the past week before the election when she was asked that question.
Next time pay attention......
1
Nick,
You and your fellow op ed columnists at the NYT have avoided the word repudiation.
It means to reject. Let me use it in a a sentence.. In the 2016 elections the voters repudiated the Progressive agenda.
So why not accept that, regroup if you wish, and stop whining and looking for a safe room.
You and your fellow op ed columnists at the NYT have avoided the word repudiation.
It means to reject. Let me use it in a a sentence.. In the 2016 elections the voters repudiated the Progressive agenda.
So why not accept that, regroup if you wish, and stop whining and looking for a safe room.
1
Nasty, bigoted, ignorant people have elected a nasty, bigoted ignorant man.
And to those trumpeters who deny that they are nasty, bigoted or ignorant, I note that you don't mind voting for and being represented by someone who is, and that makes you one of them.
This is not the country I thought it was.
And to those trumpeters who deny that they are nasty, bigoted or ignorant, I note that you don't mind voting for and being represented by someone who is, and that makes you one of them.
This is not the country I thought it was.
2
The only thing the electronic media did not cover as BREAKING NEWS involving Trump was his bowel movements. The reason so many people voted for him is because his face and voice led every single newscast and was the first thing people saw at every website for 2 years, other than the few days after the Pulse shooting. He was the REAL loudest voice in the room, and he was put into office by the greed of the mainstream electronic media.
1
You forgot to mention the 30,000 guillotines that the government purchased. Oh, and the number of people who voted for Trump over Clinton because of some book, which allegedly says that "woman shall not have dominion over man." That one's been around longer than the Internet, I hear...
1
An eye-opening message. This household (designated as a Trump Free Zone) is neither cable news nor Facebook connected and had no idea how widespread these outlandish lies were. We'd heard about them but now look forward to future reporting from credible sources like the TImes which will keep us informed/up to date and even more disgusted.
This post Sulzberger apology rant is the eptiome of beating a dead horse. It's dead. Nick. It's dead. Your paper's fault in demonizing Trump swayed so many people on the fence to agree with the Donald. It's you who lie. The "Morning Consult" should be quoted in your newspaper for showing the 56% of Republicans still think Obama was foreign born? You are hereby sentenced to 2 years living in Western Ohio and actually starting conversations at the Home Depot there for the transgression of not really knowing the people whom you disparage. Wake up. It's over.
3
The author wrote a series of columns this year entitled " When White People don't get it" volumes one through seven. I think this election proves they got it all right. They got it that the liberal elite in this country thinks they are racists and they are sick of it. They are sick of asking why if a young black man is 7 times more likely to be killed by a another young black man than by the police the real problem is the police and then being told they don't get it. The author thought his columns would education half the country on it's racists ways and was so annoyed at the response he needed to repeat the message seven times. Instead his message and others like it have gotten you the Trump presidency, congratulations.
6
The words "News", "Truth" and "Accuracy" have long ceased (if they ever were) to be synonyms. The effort required to be well read and informed is now so onerous its almost a full time job. Not sure what the future will hold but for sure it will be change with a capital "C".
1
You mention false stories in other papers but honestly I lost my trust in the NYT. Your paper anointed HRC early on and glossed over her negatives. You glossed over DT problems in the primary assuming he would be easily defeated by HRC. The Donna Brazile story and others show that mainstream press was secretly on the HRC side. By being biased you force the public to get news from other sources.
4
Meanwhile Roger Ailes slipped the prepared questions to your immaculate golden boy Donald Trump.
Do you even know what hypocrisy is?
Do you even know what hypocrisy is?
A real problem, for which I have no answer, is that credible news sources like The NY Times, or even the BBC, are too expensive for most people, who then must resort to less credible, but free, sites. I am retired and ended my print subscription because it cost so much. And a Sunday edition is a whopping $6 on the newsstand, a daily copy at least $2 or $2.50 - beyond most people's reach. And subscription rates are still sky high. I had the BBC (the only credible broadcast news in the world in my opinion) as part of a Comcast package (along with some other international news such as France 24) in the Philadelphia area, then moved to NC, where Time Warner simply charges too much to get the BBC. So I now have digital subscriptions to the NYTimes and Washington Post, no BBC (which means NO broadcast news because CNN is horrible, and MSNBC is an endless talk fest). Otherwise, I have to go free news sites, which aren't always "news" and which investigate nothing and often just duplicate each other. I realize that news media must subsist and turn profits - but we need a better way for people who aren't rich to get credible news. One suggestion for this paper: graduated rates giving students and retirees special reduced rates sure would help. A retired single woman (or man) or a young college student or struggling single parent shouldn't have to pay the same sub rate as a billionaire for news!
2
Fake news on the internet is truly disturbing. Trump's victory is also disturbing. But can the NYT take a brutally honest look at itself? Even those of us sympathetic to the NYT's worldview could see that NYT reporters just haven't got a clue to what is going on across the bridges and tunnels in the Big World Out There. The NYT is a great American institution. Its knowledge of America is deficient. I come from Southern liberal democrats whose family roots in red-state America go back to the 1600s. I'm a Southern liberal Democrat myself. I've always loved NYC and lived there, or nearby, for a long time. Then I lived for many years in other parts of the world. And NYC, though greatly loved, is in some ways the most provincial, out-of-touch place of them all. It's a small town, see? The NYT is way out of touch and the reporting is suffering. The NYT rightly called Trump out on the racism and sexism and unconstitutionalism of his statements. Bravo. But face it, there has also been a long term inability of your reporters to realize that they too are living in an echo-chamber bubble. The simplistic explanations for his support just don't stand up to the facts. The people who voted for Obama in Michigan and Wisconsin etc. voted for Sanders and Trump. This has been an anti-Yuppie election. In Manhattan, too many aging Yuppies could not see that, because they never seem to get out enough to see clearly the whole American world.
3
"Post Traumatic America"
The heartland of America
Is not inherently racist
Dividing our country into black and white
The rust-belt of our country
Is not xenophobic
Dimming Lady Liberty's shining light
From sea to shining sea, be assured
That opportunity is all they want
Along with liberty and justice for all
But despite all too many years of cries
Shouting to airplanes that flew overhead
The captains of America refused to take their call
A fringe may seem empowered
Breathing life to division and hate
Those who want to see America great "again"
It is against they whom we need to fight
So as not to be dragged back to an ugly past
To which most of our country would shout, amen
So we must listen to the pain they suffer
The aches of those who felt so left behind
And who ask, "how now will my countrymen treat us"
The gains for some have been real
But for others, history has not been kind
We need a new generation of leaders
The heartland of America
Is not inherently racist
Dividing our country into black and white
The rust-belt of our country
Is not xenophobic
Dimming Lady Liberty's shining light
From sea to shining sea, be assured
That opportunity is all they want
Along with liberty and justice for all
But despite all too many years of cries
Shouting to airplanes that flew overhead
The captains of America refused to take their call
A fringe may seem empowered
Breathing life to division and hate
Those who want to see America great "again"
It is against they whom we need to fight
So as not to be dragged back to an ugly past
To which most of our country would shout, amen
So we must listen to the pain they suffer
The aches of those who felt so left behind
And who ask, "how now will my countrymen treat us"
The gains for some have been real
But for others, history has not been kind
We need a new generation of leaders
1
I had a business relationship with a gentleman in South Carolina. After our business dealings ended he emailed me occasionally and would attach an alt-right screed, but beyond that never discussed political issues. I would respond to the personal message, but didn't mention the attached articles.
Then he forwarded an article saying that Obama had before Congress a bill to confiscate all firearms in the US, including identifying the bill by its number. I decided to pull up the actual bill and found out, obviously, that no such bill existed, and googling the "bill" showed that it was a "hoax".
So I emailed back, saying I'd been concerned about the article and checked it out and told him what I had found, and hoped that this would ease his concerns. I gave him the sites.
That was about 5 years ago. I've never heard from him again.
It reminds me of what Paul Simon said: "A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest."
Then he forwarded an article saying that Obama had before Congress a bill to confiscate all firearms in the US, including identifying the bill by its number. I decided to pull up the actual bill and found out, obviously, that no such bill existed, and googling the "bill" showed that it was a "hoax".
So I emailed back, saying I'd been concerned about the article and checked it out and told him what I had found, and hoped that this would ease his concerns. I gave him the sites.
That was about 5 years ago. I've never heard from him again.
It reminds me of what Paul Simon said: "A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest."
The question now is whether we let the brown shirts change us as a country, whether this cultural backslide spreads. Though uncomfortable for moderates and centrists, now is the time to speak out, resist, and if necessary, fight back! Silence is complicity.
2
I heard that Obama will be heading up a contingent of like minded supporters and will run for the Presidency of Kenya. Then by using foreign aid received from the U.S. he will buy a submarine to sneak into England and take the bust of Winston Churchill, that he had returned to the British after he won the U.S. Presidency, bring it back to Kenya and perform various voodoo activities around an open fire with the bust of Winston used, when attached to a stick, as a masher of root vegetables to make a slightly alcholic beverage that will then be bottled and sold in England as a cure for gout. Its all true.
True. These are post fact times driven by extremist websites and social media. It is also true the mainstream media promoted Trump's charade. It also true the mainstream media is out of touch with working class America. By working class America I assume you mean white folks living outside of major metro areas and white folks living in rust belt states and white folks living in between the east and west coast metro centers. Let me remind you that Black and brown folks are in the working class and also live in rust belt states and in the center of the country. Let me also remind you that white, brown and black folks also make up Harrington's Other America, the America that is chronically unemployed or under employed, that have lived in poverty for generations. These folks probably don't vote. Let's also tell the truth that jobs leave this country because of corporate survival. Some call it greed. I think it falls some where in the middle. Let's not forget that automation leads to job loss.Working class white America can now join the ranks of the disenfranchised. The solutions to these issues must come from bi-partisan players and middle of the road think tanks. Folks of all types must recognize that nothing will change if we allow ourselves to be marginalized. We are in this together. Trump's demonization of the other worked for the last 18 months and he got elected. Mains media promoted his message and should be held accountable. The alternative media joined in the charade.
1
Guess who paid all the taxes to build these robotic container ports that have reduced overseas transportation costs far below overland costs.
1
Democrats always win the arguments but lose the sale. The uneducated white voter is a derogatory term used by the media. We tend to confront a conservative argument head-on. The best argument against Trump would have been, "I am afraid of him. He is too cavalier about nuclear weapons. I don't know what to expect of Trump. He says one thing one day and the opposite the next or denies he ever said it". Regarding Hillary, "Yes, she is a flawed candidate. She and Bill enriched themselves speaking to the wealthy. But practically all politicians try to do that in one way or the other, for example, becoming lobbyists or writing books or heading up think tanks." "The number one issue in any presidential campaign is finding good jobs for the working man."
Trump is a casino asset-stripper. A man for our times!
1
Not only do these alt-right sites (and a few alt-left sites) undermine democracy, they undermine friendships. I deactivated my Facebook account after the election. It made me think the worst about my friends, whom I've known for years. My friendships are healthier when we don't speak politics.
So much analysis. Much good it did us before 11.8.
The people had had enough of 30 years of stagnant wages, and extreme income and wealth disparity. Blame Reagan and voodoo economics. They vote DEM, no improvement. They vote REP, no improvement. They start lobbing bombs at Washington like the tea party candidates, no improvement.
Then along comes a candidate who attacks both parties equally and promises them the moon.
What did they have to lose?
The people had had enough of 30 years of stagnant wages, and extreme income and wealth disparity. Blame Reagan and voodoo economics. They vote DEM, no improvement. They vote REP, no improvement. They start lobbing bombs at Washington like the tea party candidates, no improvement.
Then along comes a candidate who attacks both parties equally and promises them the moon.
What did they have to lose?
4
It is funny and ironic that some responses hold disdain for the liberal mindset yet in the same reply they then call themselves the "real" Americans. I have no ideas what that even means except it's some code in which some Americans are excluded
1
I thought Ralph Kramden was dead and buried!
Facebook is doing an analysis in their role in the election of Donald Trump, and good for them. I hope this is on the Times' agenda as well, because it, too, has some soul searching to do.
2
Fake news. The Orson Welles War of the Worlds radio broadcast came more than half a century before Facebook. It created panic in some places and some listeners doubted the authenticity of the author's disclaimer at the end of the broadcast.
2
It is too bad that the people who should know better did not come out to vote. How many of the people protesting did not vote? You are also right about not caring about that ex steel worker. Just because they are white does not mean that they did not have legitimate concerns. In fact there are no doubt many black ex steel workers who have lost their jobs.
1
The Truth. Yes what is the Truth? For the Clinton's how many years of history? How much baggage? Two wheel chaired people battling in Illinois. Two seemingly damaged individuals running for President. What was different about this election campaign. Does it start with Trump name calling citizens of Mexican decent or the years of hate focused on Hillary Clinton. How to sort it out in the heat of the night when it is happening to you? Will the MSM in the future discuss the lies and point out the flaws in the facts or logic.
The National Debt balloons out of control and yet SILENCE and even worse we have a President Elect that has stated that we, the US, may not stand behind that Debt, when part of the Debt is owed to those on Social Security. Yes how may bankrupt Pension Plans go bust before the ultimate Pension Plan needs to be restructured?
Today there are the Truths that even the NY Times will not cover. Maybe the newspaper of record has a column that "covers" the stories that the are not considered news worthy of its mention. Surely one story that we know to be true today that was not considered true as it began to be public, the Catholic Priest abuse of children, would have broken open a number of years earlier than it did. Peace
The National Debt balloons out of control and yet SILENCE and even worse we have a President Elect that has stated that we, the US, may not stand behind that Debt, when part of the Debt is owed to those on Social Security. Yes how may bankrupt Pension Plans go bust before the ultimate Pension Plan needs to be restructured?
Today there are the Truths that even the NY Times will not cover. Maybe the newspaper of record has a column that "covers" the stories that the are not considered news worthy of its mention. Surely one story that we know to be true today that was not considered true as it began to be public, the Catholic Priest abuse of children, would have broken open a number of years earlier than it did. Peace
Politicians no longer pay a price for saying things that are false.(unless you're Hillary Clinton who gets accused of lying when she isn't). Donald Trump, the most prolific teller if falsehoods in the history of modern American politics, is being rewarded for telling 560 falsehoods with the Presidency of the United States. When the false news sites and Facebook pages propagate lies, and the candidate is full of untruth, it is impossible for mainstream media to counteract the lies.
Donald Trump said 560 false things, total
https://www.thestar.com/news/world/uselection/2016/11/04/donald-trump-th...
Donald Trump said 560 false things, total
https://www.thestar.com/news/world/uselection/2016/11/04/donald-trump-th...
2
Nick - Deamonozing the "alt-right will not undo this election result. I am pretty sure the people Who voted for Trump were not persuaded to do so because of an item on facebook -- but it is really none of my business why they voted that way -- it is also none of yours, either. People have the right to believe whatever they want to believe - for whatever reason. When are you going to write about the amount of radical Islamic propaganda that appears on Facebook and elsewhere? The stuff that gives its readers instructions about how to make bombs? The stuff that encourages hatred and glorifies violence? There is plenty of that out there too. Nasty pictures of Hillary are not in the same league as encouragement to commit mass murder.
1
Should the mainstream news media acknowledge and rebut false information that appears in alt-right outlets? Let me offer some considerations.
1. Offering a rebuttal, acknowledges the dishonesty is worthy of our attention, and generates those all-important clicks at the source.
2. The audience for that disinformation is largely unwilling to listen.
3. Imagine the reverse. If false information from a left wing source placed a Democrat in the White House, Would Nicholas Kristof be advocating for a remedy?
1. Offering a rebuttal, acknowledges the dishonesty is worthy of our attention, and generates those all-important clicks at the source.
2. The audience for that disinformation is largely unwilling to listen.
3. Imagine the reverse. If false information from a left wing source placed a Democrat in the White House, Would Nicholas Kristof be advocating for a remedy?
The MSM have to stop putting their rules first. This rule: If we don't run an election story when it first becomes known, then its stale and we won't run it unless we're forced to do so. Doesn't matter that it's still brand new to the public. I couldn't get one media outlet anywhere to break the rule, no matter how hard I tried.
In 2014, Steve Bannon registered to vote in Florida. That's a Fed and Fla crime for a DC resident repeated in 2015 and in 2016. Up to 5yrs a count, Fed and Fla or 30yrs max. He won't get caught. He joins the Trump campaign. Gets found out by the Guardian newspaper. Bannon's crimes and guilt are obvious. Google 'Bannon Florida Guardian voter' and read the first two results or take a look at my report, tiny.cc/bannon
This story is new to you because the Times and Post ignored it on Aug 26, everyone else followed along and then the media strictly applied the rule.
Clinton, at any time, even post-Comey , could force the media to run the story,
They absolutely knew Bannon would damage Trump worse than this voting scandal. Never could have happened. Obvious to anyone who read up on Bannon. Above all, Bannon wants to win and he'll adapt himself as needed Any replacement for Bannon wouldn't be as effective.
Don't think the MSM were following the Clinton campaign line. The daily wikileak report, proves otherwise. Absent the rule, can you explain not one of those Democrat biased media deciding Clinton was wrong about Bannon and running the story.
In 2014, Steve Bannon registered to vote in Florida. That's a Fed and Fla crime for a DC resident repeated in 2015 and in 2016. Up to 5yrs a count, Fed and Fla or 30yrs max. He won't get caught. He joins the Trump campaign. Gets found out by the Guardian newspaper. Bannon's crimes and guilt are obvious. Google 'Bannon Florida Guardian voter' and read the first two results or take a look at my report, tiny.cc/bannon
This story is new to you because the Times and Post ignored it on Aug 26, everyone else followed along and then the media strictly applied the rule.
Clinton, at any time, even post-Comey , could force the media to run the story,
They absolutely knew Bannon would damage Trump worse than this voting scandal. Never could have happened. Obvious to anyone who read up on Bannon. Above all, Bannon wants to win and he'll adapt himself as needed Any replacement for Bannon wouldn't be as effective.
Don't think the MSM were following the Clinton campaign line. The daily wikileak report, proves otherwise. Absent the rule, can you explain not one of those Democrat biased media deciding Clinton was wrong about Bannon and running the story.
1
When my (beloved) Republican father died two years ago, I became his executor and started receiving his junk mail.
A lot of it was from fundamentalist Christian groups that asserted ties with the military and demonized Barack Obama. All you had to do was read the envelopes to be told that Obama was a dark foreign Muslim determined to tear Bibles from the hands of our brave Christian soldiers.
One envelope trumpeted the message "This is the Book Obama wants to keep from our soldiers," and featured a big arrow pointing to a Bible open to the Book of John (fourth Gospel).
This general message earned a whole lot of people a whole lot of money.
Our problems don't stem from Macedonia. Many of them stem from greedy and vicious "Christian" preachers, working their scams right here in River City.
My Texas cousin believes that Obama tried to outlaw all pictures of the nativity scene on the Internet, that he then tried to outlaw the phrase "Merry Christmas," and that of course he's an evil dusky Muslim.
Eight years of fund-raising efforts. Has anybody reported on those? Check out the Falwells. Kevin Swanson (who rants about executing all gays in America). Check out any fund-raising site that includes the word "Christ." And see what you find.
A lot of it was from fundamentalist Christian groups that asserted ties with the military and demonized Barack Obama. All you had to do was read the envelopes to be told that Obama was a dark foreign Muslim determined to tear Bibles from the hands of our brave Christian soldiers.
One envelope trumpeted the message "This is the Book Obama wants to keep from our soldiers," and featured a big arrow pointing to a Bible open to the Book of John (fourth Gospel).
This general message earned a whole lot of people a whole lot of money.
Our problems don't stem from Macedonia. Many of them stem from greedy and vicious "Christian" preachers, working their scams right here in River City.
My Texas cousin believes that Obama tried to outlaw all pictures of the nativity scene on the Internet, that he then tried to outlaw the phrase "Merry Christmas," and that of course he's an evil dusky Muslim.
Eight years of fund-raising efforts. Has anybody reported on those? Check out the Falwells. Kevin Swanson (who rants about executing all gays in America). Check out any fund-raising site that includes the word "Christ." And see what you find.
175
Postscript: Oh yes, and one could begin by investigating these organizations: Judicial Watch (Quote: "Your Pastor's Freedom of Speech DENIED!"), The American Civil Rights Union, or ACRU ("The ACLU is Winning the War to outlaw your values ... "). America's Prayer Network. Christians Reviving America's ValuEs (CRAVE) ("The Showdown Battle over America's Christian Heritage has Begun!"). Congressman Allen West. Traditional Values Coalition ("7 Million Citizens Petition to Stop Obama's Military War on Christians"). CRU (formerly Campus Crusade for Christ, quote: "They Made me Burn my Only Bible."). Pray in Jesus' Name Ministries. National Committee to Defend America. ACLJ (American Coalition for Law and Justice. Quote: "President Barack Obama says 'I can Do Whatever I want,' but the American People say NO"). Military Religious Rights Project. Faith and Action. Americans for One Language. Doug Collins, US House of Representatives, Georgia. God's Word to the Nations Mission Society (Quote: "The Obama Administration is punishing Christian soldiers and chaplains tho share this book." Arrow to: Book of John, Gospels). Alliance Defending Freedom. Wycliffe Associates. National Committee Against the UN Takeover. The Liberty Institute (Quote: "New Hope for American Soldiers Slammed by Obama's Attacks on Those of Faith."). Patrick Henry College. And so on. They are legion.
You really think main street media will write about this? They are already saying Bannon is just another conservative.
1
This is a long, but good read about social media and its continued evolution. Sometimes it seems a bit "conspiracy-theory", but less so with each passing day. Though perhaps if enough false info is eventually injected into cyberspace, people will finally realize they should not believe so easily what they read:
http://www.theatlantic.com/press-releases/archive/2016/10/the-atlantics-...
http://www.theatlantic.com/press-releases/archive/2016/10/the-atlantics-...
The wailing and moaning and gnashing of teeth from the election results is something to behold. And that is just the mainstream media! One would need a heart of stone not to laugh....
1
There are fewer hyper-partisan left wing web sites because they have a fierce competitor that takes attention away from them called the NYT! And highlighting the alt-right lies at the NYT does little to grow the base of the Democratic party. You should be trying to sway Trump supporters who really don't believe in the extreme lies you highlight here, but are looking for jobs and a future, and who were the real reason Clinton lost. You should also be trying to convince your loyal readers to do the same. Because the tactics you are using now, did not work before, and have facilitated a massive shift in the government to the Repblicans, who you wildly and wrongly reported as a party that is in shambles and is falling apart. I decided to vote for Trump in the final days.......however, I am looking for alternatives to Trump that don't include corrupt establishment.....and I will say to you that I am not looking for more of the same in your opinions and reporting any more than I am looking for more of the same in a corrupt for-purchase establishment government.
3
Facebook, Zuckerberg's attitude, way of thinking
is as arrogant and ignorant as the one of the leadership of the Democratic Party.
Never have they been so wrong and never have they caused such damage to democracy.
However they will deny they have done anything wrong, to justify their positions.
The hard reality is that they are the ones who next to the demagoguery of Trump and his mafia inspired business empire, have to take some responsibility for for the very right turn this country has taken, a road that leads to modern day of fascism, which amongst many other threads, a full blown return to racism.
I
is as arrogant and ignorant as the one of the leadership of the Democratic Party.
Never have they been so wrong and never have they caused such damage to democracy.
However they will deny they have done anything wrong, to justify their positions.
The hard reality is that they are the ones who next to the demagoguery of Trump and his mafia inspired business empire, have to take some responsibility for for the very right turn this country has taken, a road that leads to modern day of fascism, which amongst many other threads, a full blown return to racism.
I
1
I saw on a Facebook thread that Hillary got her history degree writing about the satanist Saul alinsky. Where do you even begin? I have disengaged on social media because responding to threads that contain such lies will take over ones life. But of course every time no one doesn't say perhaps look at sources that show this info is wrong the lies continue unchallenged
"Indeed, the Macedonian entrepreneurs originally came up with leftist websites targeting Bernie Sanders supporters but didn’t find much reader interest in them."
"I love the poorly educated." - Donald J Trump.
Discrepancy explained.
Zuckerberg is squirming. His profits over the common good are fully evident here.
"I love the poorly educated." - Donald J Trump.
Discrepancy explained.
Zuckerberg is squirming. His profits over the common good are fully evident here.
2
"Alt-right kooks suggest that Obama is literally the devil and is trying to destroy humanity through vaccines." Mr. Kristoff, "protesters - rioters - claiming "not my president" have received no criticism from main stream liberal press (se: NYTimes), yet, he ascribes outside relevance to alt-right sites on Internet media, essentially, if not explicitly, for Hillary's loss. Ridiculous. Does he appreciate that this is a repeated and ascribed lie spread by radical left-wing activists using similar media to excite those moaning their candidate's and their party's colossal defeat?
Her loss has nothing to do with inane and insane garbage spread on foul websites. This is gross insult to those who voted for Trump over Hillary - same in message as when she referred to Trump supporters as "Deplorables", an insult with far greater potency to motivate the white poor and middle class to turn on her. In reflection and in private Hillary has admitted that "she stepped in ....." with that remark at a mega-donor fund raising dinner. I get it that liberals are searching - searching - searching for reason to explain a monumental loss; unfortunately for the democrat future they are, as usual, missing the forest for the trees; rotten websites being to them a very tall tree indeed.
Her loss has nothing to do with inane and insane garbage spread on foul websites. This is gross insult to those who voted for Trump over Hillary - same in message as when she referred to Trump supporters as "Deplorables", an insult with far greater potency to motivate the white poor and middle class to turn on her. In reflection and in private Hillary has admitted that "she stepped in ....." with that remark at a mega-donor fund raising dinner. I get it that liberals are searching - searching - searching for reason to explain a monumental loss; unfortunately for the democrat future they are, as usual, missing the forest for the trees; rotten websites being to them a very tall tree indeed.
1
If you are interested in the "truth" about the "basket of deplorable" comment, here is the full transcript of Ms. Clinton's remarks.
http://time.com/4486502/hillary-clinton-basket-of-deplorables-transcript/
http://time.com/4486502/hillary-clinton-basket-of-deplorables-transcript/
This is hardly anything new. Yes, rumors fly faster in cyberspace (and that works in both directions) but radio waves, pamphlets, magazines, newspapers and paperbacks have been disseminating alternate reality for a very long time. So did FDR really know in advance of the Pearl Harbor attack.
I'll try this again.
Apparently my first post (last night) was too strongly-worded for the NYT because it applied the F-word to what I believe the Republican Party embraces and represents (Hint: it rhymes with fascism). The problem is, a major political party that receives support from the KKK, white supremacists, and the likes of the Koch Brothers and other billionaire right-wing underwriters is nearly impossible to describe otherwise.
Mr. Kristof's piece is fine (and this is not a slam against him) but it is exactly the type of piece I anticipated I would be reading today and in the days to come.
So what’s the issue? The issue is, I anticipated this several months ago, when "drip-drip-dripping" "troves" of emails were all the rage and to be flogged endlessly (paging Amy Chozick and Andrea Mitchell), because I’ve seen this show before; post-Swiftboating, Willie Horton, and the Iraq War are just a few examples of the same variation on a theme.
Yes, another tiresome and far too late round of media introspection, navel-gazing, and mea culpas, accompanied by the tried-and-true, “We must do better next time”.
But there’s a problem: this show is a re-run, and the damage is already done. This time, the damage might be irreparable.
Apparently my first post (last night) was too strongly-worded for the NYT because it applied the F-word to what I believe the Republican Party embraces and represents (Hint: it rhymes with fascism). The problem is, a major political party that receives support from the KKK, white supremacists, and the likes of the Koch Brothers and other billionaire right-wing underwriters is nearly impossible to describe otherwise.
Mr. Kristof's piece is fine (and this is not a slam against him) but it is exactly the type of piece I anticipated I would be reading today and in the days to come.
So what’s the issue? The issue is, I anticipated this several months ago, when "drip-drip-dripping" "troves" of emails were all the rage and to be flogged endlessly (paging Amy Chozick and Andrea Mitchell), because I’ve seen this show before; post-Swiftboating, Willie Horton, and the Iraq War are just a few examples of the same variation on a theme.
Yes, another tiresome and far too late round of media introspection, navel-gazing, and mea culpas, accompanied by the tried-and-true, “We must do better next time”.
But there’s a problem: this show is a re-run, and the damage is already done. This time, the damage might be irreparable.
2
What you say here is true, and yet it is amazing what is missed. There was another massive platform on which the Clinton loss was based. John King made the point multiple times on election night that there were thousands of rural counties going heavily red. Their collective mass had the power to suffocate. Where do so many of those Trump voters get their memes?
I travel in such counties, tune into AM radio, and have actual conversations with rural Trump voters. James Comey bookended two powerful contributions for animus around HRC's "deplorables" gaffe. Those events were crystallizing moments for the ceaseless venom of Limbaugh, Ingram, Hannity, et al. Terms like “evil” and “apocalypse” have been used endlessly by those sources to describe Clinton, Obama and company. Hannity’s radio slogan was “America Lives….or America Dies!” Ingram has a sponsor that sells survival food to provide families with “delicious meals at home instead of contending with the coming food riots”. Limbaugh alone has an audience of 20 million.
Right wing radio very effectively fueled bottom up social bigotry against "the elites". Amazing how those listeners disregard the fact that the jocks they see as looking out for them are actually multimillionaire elitists laughing all the way to the bank.
I travel in such counties, tune into AM radio, and have actual conversations with rural Trump voters. James Comey bookended two powerful contributions for animus around HRC's "deplorables" gaffe. Those events were crystallizing moments for the ceaseless venom of Limbaugh, Ingram, Hannity, et al. Terms like “evil” and “apocalypse” have been used endlessly by those sources to describe Clinton, Obama and company. Hannity’s radio slogan was “America Lives….or America Dies!” Ingram has a sponsor that sells survival food to provide families with “delicious meals at home instead of contending with the coming food riots”. Limbaugh alone has an audience of 20 million.
Right wing radio very effectively fueled bottom up social bigotry against "the elites". Amazing how those listeners disregard the fact that the jocks they see as looking out for them are actually multimillionaire elitists laughing all the way to the bank.
158
You are so right
If there was false news its because the media allowed and encouraged that news. Mr. Trump's proclamation were made valid by the media's insistence upon covering his unabashed, crude and impolitic remarks without being challenged. You are at fault too. Mr. Sanders was speaking truth to power. He spoke to the failings of the Democratic party and that party's elitists. You and the rest of the media failed miserably to give credit to his voice. But you sure followed Donald Trump. Ordinary voters who had been beaten down by 30 years of American losses of jobs and industry could hear Mr. Trump who was allowed to drown the voices of truth and reason. Where were you Mr. Kristoff? You too were disconnected from the disenfranchised middle class. You still are. And it is far more than being out of touch. You and the rest of the media pundits failed to understand what happened to America over the last 30 years. As factories closed and downtowns and communities were deserted there were no voices raised in protest. Those displaced people are now raising there voice in protest. they elected Donald Trump because world trade became more important than welfare of our citizens. Donald is right. America must come first. Then we can help others. Then we can reach out. We can't open our heart when its been torn out. We didn't believe the lies. We're tired of our own voices not being heard. We're tired of our despair not being recognized. We voted to protest ignoring us for 30 years. We voted.
2
Yes, we will see just how brave or cowardly the news media will be. Will they be questioning the laws the Trumps, both Donald and his wife Melania, broke and are now getting away with, or will get away with because they now have to power to inflict pain and danger on those in the news media! We the people cannot let them get away with it! We will unrelentlessly encourage our representatives to take action!
2
“If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." ~ ALBERT EINSTEIN
Lies in the guise of news, historically the American Way!
FACT:
• “When we hear news reports, we don’t decide what happened and then decide what to do about it. Rather, we know what we want to do, and we interpret what happened in the way that will best help us do what we want to do." ~ JONATHAN HAIDT
• “By giving us the opinions of the uneducated, journalism keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the community.” ~ OSCAR WILDE
• “There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” ~ISAAC ASIMOV
• "With somnambulistic efficiency, Reagan educated America down to his level. He left his country a little stupider in 1988 than it had been in 1980, and a lot more tolerant of lies" ~ROBERT HUGHES
• “America..., just a nation of two hundred million used car salesmen with all the money we need to buy guns and no qualms about killing anybody else in the world who tries to make us uncomfortable.”~HUNTER S. THOMPSON
• “America has been an unrepentant, white, bigoted tyrant for 240 years.”
~SOCRATES NYT Commentator
• "America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between."~OSCAR WILDE
Lies in the guise of news, historically the American Way!
FACT:
• “When we hear news reports, we don’t decide what happened and then decide what to do about it. Rather, we know what we want to do, and we interpret what happened in the way that will best help us do what we want to do." ~ JONATHAN HAIDT
• “By giving us the opinions of the uneducated, journalism keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the community.” ~ OSCAR WILDE
• “There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” ~ISAAC ASIMOV
• "With somnambulistic efficiency, Reagan educated America down to his level. He left his country a little stupider in 1988 than it had been in 1980, and a lot more tolerant of lies" ~ROBERT HUGHES
• “America..., just a nation of two hundred million used car salesmen with all the money we need to buy guns and no qualms about killing anybody else in the world who tries to make us uncomfortable.”~HUNTER S. THOMPSON
• “America has been an unrepentant, white, bigoted tyrant for 240 years.”
~SOCRATES NYT Commentator
• "America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between."~OSCAR WILDE
10
What Asimov did not go into was the reason for that ignorance and why those whom are ignorant resent the better educated. The ignorance exists because the wealthy create the conditions for it to flourish because they make their money by it.
Like a child is forced by circumstance to trust adults, the ignorant are forced by circumstance to have to trust the educated. Ignorance does not equate with stupidity in this context.
They resent the educated because most of the educated people they meet have come to take advantage of them and not as they always claim, to help them. Facts prove this, as they are still ignorant and still poor and more than smart enough to know this.
The quantifiable anger or level of resentment you might find in any one person comes from how directly they (can) connect any person to the negative events in their own lives. They know that they are doing enough work to be getting ahead and by that they know it is something created by the educated, which they do not understand that is keeping them down.
It’s another case of a quote misperceived and misused by the very same educated people it was meant to make aware. I am sure Asimov himself would not have been closed to the points I make here.
Like a child is forced by circumstance to trust adults, the ignorant are forced by circumstance to have to trust the educated. Ignorance does not equate with stupidity in this context.
They resent the educated because most of the educated people they meet have come to take advantage of them and not as they always claim, to help them. Facts prove this, as they are still ignorant and still poor and more than smart enough to know this.
The quantifiable anger or level of resentment you might find in any one person comes from how directly they (can) connect any person to the negative events in their own lives. They know that they are doing enough work to be getting ahead and by that they know it is something created by the educated, which they do not understand that is keeping them down.
It’s another case of a quote misperceived and misused by the very same educated people it was meant to make aware. I am sure Asimov himself would not have been closed to the points I make here.
2
A further point. Just as the abused child irrationally to an outsider stays loyal to their abuser the ignorant people in communities taken advantage of by educated folks will stay loyal.
If you give them "better" data why would they see it any differently than the lies they were told that got them where they are? From their POV you are no different from the last liar who told them "this is the way".
This aspect of the human condition is why ignorance is so harmful and inflicted ignorance such a morally depraved crime against humanity.
If you give them "better" data why would they see it any differently than the lies they were told that got them where they are? From their POV you are no different from the last liar who told them "this is the way".
This aspect of the human condition is why ignorance is so harmful and inflicted ignorance such a morally depraved crime against humanity.
1
@ magicisnotreal
I fully agree and have "recommended" your reply. It doesn't at all contradict my comment but rather compliments it.
"The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose." ~ WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE in The Merchant of Venice.
I fully agree and have "recommended" your reply. It doesn't at all contradict my comment but rather compliments it.
"The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose." ~ WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE in The Merchant of Venice.
1
The lie that Trump won is being sold everywhere.
Hillary won 2 million more votes than Trump.
What kind of democracy -- where 'the majority rules,' as we are told in school -- hands the election to a LOSER?
Hillary won 2 million more votes than Trump.
What kind of democracy -- where 'the majority rules,' as we are told in school -- hands the election to a LOSER?
3
You get part of it right. The media and nytimes don't spend enough time talking to unemployed steel workers. Another suggestion is that maybe people got tired of hearing that all white males are responsible for all problems in the US. The nytimes is big on promoting white guilt. Regardless of your race or gender - when you are unemployed and broke you don't feel privileged - the media would do well to remember that. I think you over emphasize the influence of fringe groups masquerading as news sources - but then again - I didn't anticpate Trump wining either, so my view may not be correct either.
2
That 'false news' exists is true but is a sword that cuts more than one way:. Mr. Kristof should show more than one side of this issue. Example:
"There is currently no readily available evidence that George Soros has funded snopes.com, nor are the financial record for snopes, Soros, or financial entities they control open to inspection (what would be necessary to falsify the claim). The claim is analogous to Russell's Teapot.
"Here is an independent opinion from TruthOrFiction.com, a similar themed site:
"We can give a unique perspective on this story because we do the same kind of work as Snopes.com and have sometimes been the target of similar criticism.
"We’ve got a collection of emails that have come to TruthOrFiction.com accusing us of being “right wing whackos” as well as “liberals” and “communists.” We’ve been suspected of being owned and operated by both Republicans and Democrats. We’ve been called “Christian propagandists” as well as “atheists pretending to be neutral.” We occasionally receive emails that have elaborate theories about who “really” owns us and what our “real” motives are.
"The bottom line is that if you try to report the truth, there will be those who don’t like the truth you’ve reported and who will develop suspicions about why you did.
http://www.truthorfiction.com/snopes/
"There is currently no readily available evidence that George Soros has funded snopes.com, nor are the financial record for snopes, Soros, or financial entities they control open to inspection (what would be necessary to falsify the claim). The claim is analogous to Russell's Teapot.
"Here is an independent opinion from TruthOrFiction.com, a similar themed site:
"We can give a unique perspective on this story because we do the same kind of work as Snopes.com and have sometimes been the target of similar criticism.
"We’ve got a collection of emails that have come to TruthOrFiction.com accusing us of being “right wing whackos” as well as “liberals” and “communists.” We’ve been suspected of being owned and operated by both Republicans and Democrats. We’ve been called “Christian propagandists” as well as “atheists pretending to be neutral.” We occasionally receive emails that have elaborate theories about who “really” owns us and what our “real” motives are.
"The bottom line is that if you try to report the truth, there will be those who don’t like the truth you’ve reported and who will develop suspicions about why you did.
http://www.truthorfiction.com/snopes/
1
How strange! As I post this comment the number of previous comments was 666. Nick, what can we do about this?
2
"Lies in the Guise of News in the Trump Era"
Hello pot, hello kettle. Both sides during the past year had a strangle-hold on partisan propaganda. Lies became truth, truth became lies, half-truths were spun in every which direction and innuendo became fact.
The only difference now is I don't see the "rival mainstream news sources" attempting to fool the people again with even more smug, sanctimonious lies, half-truths and innuendos. It's over, deal with it!
Hello pot, hello kettle. Both sides during the past year had a strangle-hold on partisan propaganda. Lies became truth, truth became lies, half-truths were spun in every which direction and innuendo became fact.
The only difference now is I don't see the "rival mainstream news sources" attempting to fool the people again with even more smug, sanctimonious lies, half-truths and innuendos. It's over, deal with it!
3
This maybe my last attempt to try and redeem you and your cohorts. I wrote a letter to your editors suggesting real changes to the environment you work in at the NYT. You gave me one line about spending more time west of the Hudson and East of our 3 Pacific Oceans States. But words are. Cheap and until you execute several trips to various areas between the coasts, so here is my challenge. Make a few trips BEFORE you write again. You can right on the road after talking to a few people. Each of the NYT writers need to do the same thing.
My challenge is NOT a threat, it is a request. I will continue my subscription no matter what you do. Don't read for news, I read to understand the liberal mindset.
Make no changes and your subscription base will continue to shrink and your reach will shrink to a few elites.
My challenge is NOT a threat, it is a request. I will continue my subscription no matter what you do. Don't read for news, I read to understand the liberal mindset.
Make no changes and your subscription base will continue to shrink and your reach will shrink to a few elites.
2
Just a suggestion, but maybe you need to show your institution how to cover fly-over America. You've already done this in essays like "Three TVs and no Food" (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/30/opinion/sunday/3-tvs-and-no-food-growi.... But we need to hear more about the people who voted for Trump.
What somebody in the Liberal press needs to do -- and I can't think of anyone who could do this better than you -- is to visit white working class America and help the rest of us understand the lives and perspectives of the people who supported Trump (and Sanders). The Clinton campaign literally wrote those people off -- that's why they lost.
Liberals can't make that mistake again. We need to broaden our perspectives. And the first step is to simply listen and understand. So, instead of taking that next trip to Africa, take a trip to fly-over America. Spend some time there, and reacquaint your readers with the other people who share this country.
What somebody in the Liberal press needs to do -- and I can't think of anyone who could do this better than you -- is to visit white working class America and help the rest of us understand the lives and perspectives of the people who supported Trump (and Sanders). The Clinton campaign literally wrote those people off -- that's why they lost.
Liberals can't make that mistake again. We need to broaden our perspectives. And the first step is to simply listen and understand. So, instead of taking that next trip to Africa, take a trip to fly-over America. Spend some time there, and reacquaint your readers with the other people who share this country.
3
When Ronald Reagan came into office, I was a product manager of semiconductor processing equipment. When he left office, I was selling empty factories in rural locations for a pair of leading edge asset strippers. I could see the future lying ahead.
4
Mr. Kristof, like many in the liberal bunker, continue to find comfort in the idea that the deplorables, those who cling to their guns and bibles, are simply led astray by hunksters in the "alt-right" media. In sum, that if these hayseeds knew the truth as portrayed in the NYT and CNN and MSNBC they would see the light. I think these plain folks understand perfectly well the facts - they have been left behind economically, marginalized from society and culturally laughed at. Those alt-right sites, for all their drawbacks, are the news sources that spoke to this essential fact. The MSM was and remains clueless.
7
Hey Nick, All of you there in NYTimesLand may want to consider coming down out of the NYT skyscraper and "rubbing shoulders with the great unwashed" down on the streets of the United States. Consider it a sort of "fifth grade field trip" at first - without having to get a permission slip from your mom.
Who knows? Y'all might learn something!
Who knows? Y'all might learn something!
4
Thank you for these observations. Going forward my hope is that the media, particularly the local newspapers, do a very thorough job of explaining the likely consequences of certain legislation the conservatives will push. The two that trouble me most now are the potential privatization of Medicare and privatization of the country's infrastructure. The right wing press is screaming that Medicare is going broke and has to be cut, privatized or otherwise eviscerated. It is not true that Medicare is going broke, but to the contrary the Affordable Care Act has actually cut the costs incurred by Medicare. Privatization would likely bankrupt many seniors. Because the elected legislature is not likely to think this is a problem, we need the media to help and support an initiative to make the outcome of privatization crystal clear to all americans, and to help consitutuents understand how to reach out to elected representatives to make it crystal clear to them that they will lose their seats if they vote against Medicare (or Social Security). As to the privatization of the infrastructure, the new administration apparently wants to sell our property. Constituents need to understand that the rent will then be very steep, and the end result will be to make the rich richer.
2
"There are also hyperpartisan left-wing websites with inaccuracies, but they are less prone to fabrication than the right-wing sites."
No. They take the fabrication already prepared and worded for them from RT. There are plenty of sites on which Hillary Clinton personally destroyed the most vibrant and egalitarian government in all of Africa in 2011. There are plenty of sites on which the Syrian government fights for what is good and right and only commits its acts out of the necessity of war while the U.S. which created and funds al Qaeda, commits nothing but war crimes. There are plenty of sites on which Guccifer 2.0 is an agent of the NSA or DARPA.
"they’re foreign entrepreneurs trying to build websites that gain a large audience and thus advertising dollars."
Which pretty much perfectly describes The Guardian's American site. From whom the New York Times gets its top hires, and as its ideas on how to go about getting the all important internet eyeballs of the millennials.
I was in a conversation with several millennials about the Trump victory. They all tiptoed into the conversation because they weren't sure whether or not I had secretly voted for Trump -- talk about judging people by the color of their skin, their gender, and their age. After about an hour of discussion the upshot was that while I got my news from multiple sources and from additional supplementary reading, all of them got most of what they knew from Twitter. It was all rumor. All of it.
No. They take the fabrication already prepared and worded for them from RT. There are plenty of sites on which Hillary Clinton personally destroyed the most vibrant and egalitarian government in all of Africa in 2011. There are plenty of sites on which the Syrian government fights for what is good and right and only commits its acts out of the necessity of war while the U.S. which created and funds al Qaeda, commits nothing but war crimes. There are plenty of sites on which Guccifer 2.0 is an agent of the NSA or DARPA.
"they’re foreign entrepreneurs trying to build websites that gain a large audience and thus advertising dollars."
Which pretty much perfectly describes The Guardian's American site. From whom the New York Times gets its top hires, and as its ideas on how to go about getting the all important internet eyeballs of the millennials.
I was in a conversation with several millennials about the Trump victory. They all tiptoed into the conversation because they weren't sure whether or not I had secretly voted for Trump -- talk about judging people by the color of their skin, their gender, and their age. After about an hour of discussion the upshot was that while I got my news from multiple sources and from additional supplementary reading, all of them got most of what they knew from Twitter. It was all rumor. All of it.
1
The odd stories that Kristof mentions show he is still out of touch, while some folks who voted for Trump believe Obama isn't an American that had l little to do with anything, they don't like Obama's policies nor did they like Bush's. Kristof mentions paying attention to unemployed steel workers, this isn't the 1970s or 1980s when steel mills were closing, please catch up. Kristof is admitting he doesn't know the Trump voter, he only knows what he may have heard, middle aged racist white guy who has a high school education. The Trump voter is much more diversified, it's white women, some minorities, younger Americans and college educated folks. They are tired of a government who is out of touch with much of America. Democrats are only interested in minority America and shame anyone who doesn't agree with them. They have forgotten like many republican politicians the great middle class and they paid a heavy price.
3
Journalists are supposed to tell the truth without the spineless caveats about not verifying the accuracy of WikiLeaks we heard when your colleagues helped fence stolen mail for the Russians, probably one of the most alarming episodes in our tragedy that allows someone who lost the popular vote by a million people to become president. Putin has his poodle, and our nation will lose international influence as we turn inward and tell our allies to "pay up, you're on your own". No, we're on or own now, a horrible shame.
Let me help you with that log in your eye, Mr. Kristof.
Those who get their news from NY Times understand that Whitewater wasn't a bad real estate investment, but a crooked deal worthy of a special prosecutor. Also, that communicating by private email, as all of Secretary Clinton's predecessors since email was invented had done, was worthy of an investigation of some sort.
We have the NY Times to thank for driving both of those ridiculous non-stories. You worship at the altar of false equivalence. Which has the greater destructive consequences, alt-right "crazy news" or your own editorial misjudgment?
Those who get their news from NY Times understand that Whitewater wasn't a bad real estate investment, but a crooked deal worthy of a special prosecutor. Also, that communicating by private email, as all of Secretary Clinton's predecessors since email was invented had done, was worthy of an investigation of some sort.
We have the NY Times to thank for driving both of those ridiculous non-stories. You worship at the altar of false equivalence. Which has the greater destructive consequences, alt-right "crazy news" or your own editorial misjudgment?
1
Has anyone ever fact checked someone who told them a crazy theory and been thanked? Changed a mind?
Not in my experience. Generally, the result is some repressed hurt feeling, which in turn drive the person back to sources that, while inaccurate, make them feel validated. They are perhaps even less likely to share the next theory, and so get even less outside input. And the cycle gets strengthened and spread rather than stopped.
In my opinion, fact-based sources have a far harder task than just knocking down lies, or we'd have a different president. This will continue as long as falsehoods provide emotional validation and mainstream communicates rejection. Somehow, these conversations needs to be drawn into the light of day, and a new baseline needs to be established. I don't know how to do this. If anything, I'm guilty of fact-slinging, but I fear if we don't figure it out, Trump will be able to fail spectacularly and blame whomever he wants. Or worse.
Perhaps it involves letting people, no matter how inaccurate, at least feel heard, letting them express fear and anger without rejecting it, while drawing them away from harmful information and back to experts. Less argument arms races, more diplomacy. We do it across the world. Why not here?
Not in my experience. Generally, the result is some repressed hurt feeling, which in turn drive the person back to sources that, while inaccurate, make them feel validated. They are perhaps even less likely to share the next theory, and so get even less outside input. And the cycle gets strengthened and spread rather than stopped.
In my opinion, fact-based sources have a far harder task than just knocking down lies, or we'd have a different president. This will continue as long as falsehoods provide emotional validation and mainstream communicates rejection. Somehow, these conversations needs to be drawn into the light of day, and a new baseline needs to be established. I don't know how to do this. If anything, I'm guilty of fact-slinging, but I fear if we don't figure it out, Trump will be able to fail spectacularly and blame whomever he wants. Or worse.
Perhaps it involves letting people, no matter how inaccurate, at least feel heard, letting them express fear and anger without rejecting it, while drawing them away from harmful information and back to experts. Less argument arms races, more diplomacy. We do it across the world. Why not here?
1
Wednesday morning, as I was taking my usual walk, the owner of a house I walk by every morning was outside taking down his Clinton/Kaine signs. I stopped to say "Hello" and yes, commiserate a bit. His only comment was, "What do you expect from a state who elected a crook for governor twice?" At that moment I realized that truth, morality, and decency have now moved to the bottom rung on our ladder of public discourse. He was right. In my home state of Alabama, I have family members and friends who still support every indicted and embattled state official, no matter the crime. The same goes for people we know in Texas who stand with a corrupt AG, simply because he supports their moral agenda. It is easy to say that many Trump voters and supporters have totally ceded the moral high ground. It is also easy to wonder what the alt right would have done with a candidate with less baggage than Hillary. Maybe "ascension through assumption"-the DNC's assumption that it was Hillary's time just created the perfect storm for a Donald Trump. Lots of questions. But the biggest question is the one you pose. How does the truth trump lies, and how can the truth move forward in a way that doesn't cause anger and defensiveness?
4
Following the election, New York Times publisher Arthur Sulzberger composed a letter to the newspaper’s readers promising them that the newspaper aims “to rededicate ourselves to the fundamental missions of Times journalism. That is to report Americas and the world honestly without fear or favor.” Today, Nicholas Kristof insinuates that fake news website in Macedonia were instrumental in Donald Trump’s election. The New York Times continues its death spiral into partisan tabloid journalism.
2
Media coverage of Trump was "sometimes bungled"? You focused relentlessly on email protocol for 18 months while the most divisive, mendacious, authoritarian, secretive candidate for POTUS in history was given free air time constantly to spout his nonsense. Own your failure, media. And it would be perfectly fitting if Trump still starts Trump TV and we have our "state-sponsored channel" that takes all your viewers. The question now is why we ought to think that America's empire lasts forever. If nothing lasts forever, what makes US the exception?
2
The omnipresence of so-called 'alt-right' media is one of the reasons why predictions on this election that were based on monitoring the internet did better than polls.
That said, the mainstream media failed us all as well - by treating Trump as a joke, and failing to investigate him and expose him early in the campaign - as in, the primaries - you all helped him win.
That said, the mainstream media failed us all as well - by treating Trump as a joke, and failing to investigate him and expose him early in the campaign - as in, the primaries - you all helped him win.
1
A major part of the U.S. population willingly consumes stupidity rather attempting to analyze and process actual facts. This is a primary reason that Mr. Trump is the president-elect.
What was once called "alt-right" is now the Republican party. Mr. Trump's enlistment of Mr. Bannon in his campaign proves it. Mr. Bannon will most likely serve as Trump's chief propaganda minister. Truth is now irrelevant to the Republican party.
America is being destroyed from within by the party that waves the American flag and claims that God is on its side.
What was once called "alt-right" is now the Republican party. Mr. Trump's enlistment of Mr. Bannon in his campaign proves it. Mr. Bannon will most likely serve as Trump's chief propaganda minister. Truth is now irrelevant to the Republican party.
America is being destroyed from within by the party that waves the American flag and claims that God is on its side.
4
Great article, Mr. Kristof.
You state:
.... " there was not enough investigation of his business dealings, racism and history of sexual assaults"...
It's not too late. I hope mainstream journalists will continue to investigate and expose Trump. The world deserves to know exactly who we have as our President.
You state:
.... " there was not enough investigation of his business dealings, racism and history of sexual assaults"...
It's not too late. I hope mainstream journalists will continue to investigate and expose Trump. The world deserves to know exactly who we have as our President.
2
I don't disagree with your assertion that an entire industry has moved out of the basement and into the mainstream with its bogus "news." But the Times would do well to examine itself. Here's an example: you recently described Myron Ebell as a "climate contrarian." He's not-- he's a paid shill. He's a lobbyist dressed up as something else and you hid that fact by giving him equal footing with reality with your lazy headline and copy editing.
1
Mr. Kristof, the NYTImes has published its own share of false news. I've written to standards editors four times about errors in the Times. On three of these occasions, the errors were related to the reporter's failure to mention the main cause of an environmental problem, and instead, blamed it on a minor player. Their error was the result of a single source, and their failure to investigate it thoroughly, even when told by 18 different readers (yes, I collected their letters to the Times). This is true of the AP as well. So yes — MSM needs to listen to the blue collar steel workers. But it also needs to listen to its OWN readers. How can a media giant that ignores their requests for correction get anything right — if it always thinks it knows more than readers do?
2
The most ironic outcome of this election is that while Trump the Stooge was whining about the election was being rigged, the election was stolen, in broad daylight, by the Republicans. No doubt the Comey the Tool is the hero of the moment.
Americans wanted change, in which case they might have tried changing the skewed representation of the House and the Senate, but like the woman who said she wanted Trump the Stooge because he is "the bull in the china shop," they will find out what change they voted for with an unfettered Republican administration. The last time that happened, this country invaded Iraq. What new horrors should we dread?
Americans wanted change, in which case they might have tried changing the skewed representation of the House and the Senate, but like the woman who said she wanted Trump the Stooge because he is "the bull in the china shop," they will find out what change they voted for with an unfettered Republican administration. The last time that happened, this country invaded Iraq. What new horrors should we dread?
1
Thank you for your mea culpa but you missed the part of year in year out ignoring Republican obstructionism unless it served your purpose. Who is responsible for the ills people voted against? Congress. But you let people believe the President can do it all. Way away frim the election you could have helped educate. Instead, the NYT tried to sell papers with tabloid style articles more akin at times to British papers. Yes, fake news is bad but ignoring the truth for sales is as bad!
I keep seeing "we in the mainstream media are out of touch with working-class America; we spend too much time chatting up senators, and not enough visiting unemployed steel workers," repeated but too many here. Then, you quickly go on to explore the alt-right media and it's influence. Do you think those guys from Macedonia have spent time visiting with unemployed steel workers?
When Trump points his finger at the cameras of CNN and says "there they are, they are all liars! They are lying to you folks", and CNN just keeps filming, as if it was news worthy. Why didn't CNN just turn off the cameras and walk away?
You think your challenge is to report a problem that you are also a part of, but that is a fools errand. Your challenge is that facts have become irrelevant, and hypocrisy is no longer a disqualifier for public office, and for two centuries, exposing truth and hypocrites has been your bread & butter.
When Trump points his finger at the cameras of CNN and says "there they are, they are all liars! They are lying to you folks", and CNN just keeps filming, as if it was news worthy. Why didn't CNN just turn off the cameras and walk away?
You think your challenge is to report a problem that you are also a part of, but that is a fools errand. Your challenge is that facts have become irrelevant, and hypocrisy is no longer a disqualifier for public office, and for two centuries, exposing truth and hypocrites has been your bread & butter.
2
I am so relieved to see this article. The alt-right movement is tech-savvy, adept at capturing the attention of a jaded millennial audience that responds well to humor, and relentless in its pursuit of destabilization of progressive thinking not just here but all across the globe.
People think 4chan and boards like /pol/ and /r/The_Donald/ are a joke, a place for wingnut conspiracy theorists. Nobody likes to think that it's possible for Americans, particularly American youth, to be radicalized, but that's exactly what's happening, and for as long as we turn our faces away, it'll just keep on gaining momentum.
People think 4chan and boards like /pol/ and /r/The_Donald/ are a joke, a place for wingnut conspiracy theorists. Nobody likes to think that it's possible for Americans, particularly American youth, to be radicalized, but that's exactly what's happening, and for as long as we turn our faces away, it'll just keep on gaining momentum.
1
LIES were never a monopoly of Trump or even the GOP. The Democrats have contributed admirably to the Orwellian environment in which the U.S. exists.
You mention the birther movement and rumours about Chelsea Clinton. You might as well start a reality show. There are m,any more important lies that have been spread by both parties to justify horrendous foreign policy decisions: Just in the past 5 years the U.S. has caused 2 new civil wars in Libya and Syria. These happened on the Democrats' watch.
The U.S. broke all records of sales to the Saudis on Obama's watch. The Saudis, your 'friends', are responsible for every act of Islamic terrorism since and including 9/11.
So please forgive me if I'm not interested in the 'lies' you mention. The lies you failed to mention are far worse, resulting in the murder of 2 million innocent civilians, 10 million maimed or scarred for life, and 20 million displaced. Even today the U.S. is giving the Saudis a gentle slap on the wrist for the obliteration of Yemen.
So Chelsea Clinton's DNA? The old news about Obama's place of birth? There are far more important lies to expose.
You mention the birther movement and rumours about Chelsea Clinton. You might as well start a reality show. There are m,any more important lies that have been spread by both parties to justify horrendous foreign policy decisions: Just in the past 5 years the U.S. has caused 2 new civil wars in Libya and Syria. These happened on the Democrats' watch.
The U.S. broke all records of sales to the Saudis on Obama's watch. The Saudis, your 'friends', are responsible for every act of Islamic terrorism since and including 9/11.
So please forgive me if I'm not interested in the 'lies' you mention. The lies you failed to mention are far worse, resulting in the murder of 2 million innocent civilians, 10 million maimed or scarred for life, and 20 million displaced. Even today the U.S. is giving the Saudis a gentle slap on the wrist for the obliteration of Yemen.
So Chelsea Clinton's DNA? The old news about Obama's place of birth? There are far more important lies to expose.
3
I read the Times and Breitbart every day. To bash Breitbart as you have ignores the plank stuck in the eye of the Times. The Times reporting throughout the campaign was extremely skewed for Clinton, with seldom a hint of investigative journalism.
Good thing you have a decent crossword puzzle. That departments your most valuable. Your reporters have been nothing but a progressive propaganda apparatus.
Good thing you have a decent crossword puzzle. That departments your most valuable. Your reporters have been nothing but a progressive propaganda apparatus.
3
For years, I listened to an old-time radio station, revisiting the shows I loved as a kid. Then at 1 a.m. Abbot and Costello and The Shadow left and alt-Right nonsense flowed for 5 hours. I had been using the radio as noise to keep me awake while I was editing photos and running a fact-based history site, getting items ready for the early readers. But what I heard scared me to deatrh --birthers, race baiters, science-debunkers, Hitler-lovers, Holocaust-deniers, I surrendered. I unplugged my radio. Still, my curiosity was aroused and I checked their nutbar websites. A nuthouse. So I erased my pc browers' histories.
Visiting Philly and DC, I heard the same ilk on my car radio - all day long. America was being inundated by conspiracy theories,fantasies about spacemen mating with my ancestors and "grey" people walking my streets -- listeners were calling in, saying "I seen one uv them", "I am one", and "It's a Martian-Bilderberg plot to cut white people's birth rate". "Obama is a Kenyan male witch" and "His FBI will take away our guns".
Yet Trump's son buys this comic book? The kid shaping the Trumpolini circus? GOP buys and sells it. And, as Kristol says, decent media kept silent about the dirty radio's popularity with GOPers. Shame on them.
Visiting Philly and DC, I heard the same ilk on my car radio - all day long. America was being inundated by conspiracy theories,fantasies about spacemen mating with my ancestors and "grey" people walking my streets -- listeners were calling in, saying "I seen one uv them", "I am one", and "It's a Martian-Bilderberg plot to cut white people's birth rate". "Obama is a Kenyan male witch" and "His FBI will take away our guns".
Yet Trump's son buys this comic book? The kid shaping the Trumpolini circus? GOP buys and sells it. And, as Kristol says, decent media kept silent about the dirty radio's popularity with GOPers. Shame on them.
2
It's becoming increasingly difficult to take mainstream media seriously with its incessant litany blaming the outcome of the election on white male homophobia, misogyny, racism, lies, and conservative media, when it was virtually preordained by ignoring the legitimate concerns of a significant underclass, and demonizing them with invective including the pejorative "deplorables."
Perhaps it's time for "mainstream" media to acknowledge they don't have a lock on truth, that its dismissal of the fact that left wing media and organizations similarly hold and publish biased views by claiming "false equivalency" is merely self serving, and acknowledge that "mainstream" necessarily includes covering the news and providing commentary from the entire electorate, including those living in politically incorrect "flyover" country.
Perhaps it's time for "mainstream" media to acknowledge they don't have a lock on truth, that its dismissal of the fact that left wing media and organizations similarly hold and publish biased views by claiming "false equivalency" is merely self serving, and acknowledge that "mainstream" necessarily includes covering the news and providing commentary from the entire electorate, including those living in politically incorrect "flyover" country.
2
Why can't there be repercusions for writing delibertly misleading information? How about liable laws? I would like to see Hillary start suing the thousands of news sources that purported this garbage. The is a war, and it will have to be fought with money.
Gawker was run out of business for much less.
Gawker was run out of business for much less.
Anyone who gets their news from Facebook is an idiot. Using it for anything other than contacting friends, for which it apparently was developed, belongs in the "bucket of deplorable."
1
The word I am searching for is "ominous."
A street smart though allegedly not in full self-control erratic person is reportedly being briefed in the vast, intricate secrets re the complexities of the POTUS.
If you're not worried, then you haven't been paying attention.
As much as I do not hope his presidency fails--because we fail--there is not sufficient secular reason to perceive otherwise.
But "G-D looks out for Americans and drunks (perhaps Mencken, Bierce, or Twain)."
So, why worry.
A street smart though allegedly not in full self-control erratic person is reportedly being briefed in the vast, intricate secrets re the complexities of the POTUS.
If you're not worried, then you haven't been paying attention.
As much as I do not hope his presidency fails--because we fail--there is not sufficient secular reason to perceive otherwise.
But "G-D looks out for Americans and drunks (perhaps Mencken, Bierce, or Twain)."
So, why worry.
Kristof has hit the nail on the head with this one. I personally turned off FaceBook last April when the fake news stories became too much to take. The problem, unfortunately will only get worse. There is big money to be made and big power to be gained and that means there will be no stopping it. The internet started out changing the world for the better, but is now rapidly changing it for the worse.
2
Thank you. I'm so sick of hearing that "smug liberals" have to learn to "understand" the voters who are driven by these memes.
At the drugstore, I saw a National Enquirer picturing Hillary and LIAR!! RACIST!!! in huge type. I picked up a People Magazine and placed it in front of the Enquirer cover to hide it from other customers.
Meanwhile, Trump told his followers he would raise taxes on the rich, and 51% of them wanted that. We all know what his tax plan REALLY is and who will benefit ... but where was the analysis of tax plans in our media? Nowhere.
Meanwhile, Trump told his followers he would raise taxes on the rich, and 51% of them wanted that. We all know what his tax plan REALLY is and who will benefit ... but where was the analysis of tax plans in our media? Nowhere.
1
Why does Fox News get a pass? Fox lies are the most insidious of all because it is Republicans' most trusted news source; its power to misinform and poison politics is profound. Fox is a Republican ad campaign running 24/7 all over red states, in repair shops, waiting rooms, and cafes. (In another article, a woman said she did not vote for Hillary Clinton because she was untrustworthy while Fox blared in the background.) Fox spends most of a news hour obsessing over the criminality of Hillary Clinton's emails, so that when the FBI decides otherwise, Republicans don't believe it. Before that it was Benghazi; Republicans don't know that Hillary was vindicated because Fox News lies. In fact, Fox News viewers know less than people who don't watch news at all. Why do Republicans think global warming is a hoax and why will President Trump appoint a global warming denier to head the EPA (if the EPA even survives)? Because half of Fox airtime went to freak outliers who deny the science that carbon pollution is a heat blanket. The whole world will pay a terrible price for that particular Fox News lie.
Why does NYT treat Rupert Murdoch (who also caused Brexit) with such kid gloves? Not only is Fox why Clinton lost, Fox is a blight on journalism, the root of our bitter partisan divide, and a cancer on our democracy.
http://www.businessinsider.com/study-watching-fox-news-makes-you-less-in...
Why does NYT treat Rupert Murdoch (who also caused Brexit) with such kid gloves? Not only is Fox why Clinton lost, Fox is a blight on journalism, the root of our bitter partisan divide, and a cancer on our democracy.
http://www.businessinsider.com/study-watching-fox-news-makes-you-less-in...
2
It's very easy to laugh or deplore the clinically insane in the alt right and there version of news. but it's more more difficult to see the subtler lies in the Assange-Putin wiki-leaks lies,promoted by the New York Times. This paper chose to feature and this unverifiable, source's allegedly authentic scandals by an accused felon hiding out in Ecuador with a vested interest in electing Trump, who may well give Assange what he wants, a pardon for his own alleged criminal misbehavior. When will the Times admit its complicity in the election of Donald Trump?
It's cheap to lie. And it's lurid fun to consume them. We are limbic creatures, always ready for the next twitch. We are entertaining ourselves to death.
Mr. Kristoff, what do you mean by the phrase "fake news is gaining ground"? Have you never heard of FOX?
Yes Nicholas, what you tell is all true, and there is little you or I can do about what is published in social media. But the New York Times fails even to touch upon a subject of critical importance, the American practice of assigning its people to "races".
This matters. We see the evidence in comments stating that it is well established that there are genes that lead some fraction of those assigned by the USCB to the black "race" to be violent and even criminal.
Given the extraordinary importance of 21st Century genetics one would expect the Times to have a columnist at least as well informed as the science journalist whose column I have just read in my Swedish newspaper, DN. Her name is Karin Bojs. Her books and her column today consistently employ findings from anthropological genetics - think future Nobel Prize candidate Svante Pääbo - to help us understand where we came from.
Her column ends today with these words in translation: "Genetically we are all a mixture and that is even so for our language."
Give us a science journalist who is well informed, not only about 21st Century genetics but also about the flaws in the system that puts Barack Obama in a box called "black". Such a journalist would have read the work of these two authors - at least: Kenneth Prewitt, Dorothy Roberts as well as Pääbo and many others .
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
Race: Human
This matters. We see the evidence in comments stating that it is well established that there are genes that lead some fraction of those assigned by the USCB to the black "race" to be violent and even criminal.
Given the extraordinary importance of 21st Century genetics one would expect the Times to have a columnist at least as well informed as the science journalist whose column I have just read in my Swedish newspaper, DN. Her name is Karin Bojs. Her books and her column today consistently employ findings from anthropological genetics - think future Nobel Prize candidate Svante Pääbo - to help us understand where we came from.
Her column ends today with these words in translation: "Genetically we are all a mixture and that is even so for our language."
Give us a science journalist who is well informed, not only about 21st Century genetics but also about the flaws in the system that puts Barack Obama in a box called "black". Such a journalist would have read the work of these two authors - at least: Kenneth Prewitt, Dorothy Roberts as well as Pääbo and many others .
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
Race: Human
To those who say 'give Trump a chance', I say respect the office of the CURRENT president and CONFIRM GARLAND NOW!
Hope we are all pleasantly shocked with his tenure and happily stunned with his appointments.
And now the biggest lie yet is being urged on America and the world: that Donald J. Trump is fit to be president. Do not accept it. He is not fit, never will be fit, and that stands whether he is a "successful" president or not. What he chose to do in order to get himself into the White House can never be normalized, can never become acceptable. If the Country manages to survive this time, will it the next time some amoral, immoral candidate tries to gain power by ripping apart the social fabric? If the lie that is "presidential trump" becomes truth, what hope truth?
Corruptio optimi pessima - the corruption of the best is the worst of all
Corruptio optimi pessima - the corruption of the best is the worst of all
This is a highly dishonest piece that falsely conflates legitimate conservative websites with foreign nonsense.
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“Too much uncritical television coverage of Trump”? You must really be delusional if you think the coverage of Trump during this "poisonous" election has been uncritical.
You just don’t get it, do you? Perhaps if the NYT and the so-called “mainstream” media had not been so overtly pro-Clinton, and just reported the news in an un-biased, objective manner, you’d have more credibility. And all this nonsense talk of “false equivalency” and the need to cover the candidates unequally is what is really pernicious, and dangerous, for our democracy, not the alt-right. Luckily, the American people know and understand the bias of the mainstream media, and tuned it out during this election.
But, perhaps, what your argument really boils down to is fear of the mainstream media’s loss of its “privileged” status. The mainstream media i not, and therefore you are not, as influential as you used to be (or thought you were). You can whine about the alt-right, and blame it for Trump’s rise, but Trump’s win on Tuesday was in large part the result of millions of Americans who have never heard of the alt-right. How do you explain that? You can’t, because you’re so out-of-touch with America today that you’re opinions, and they are just that, opinions, don’t resonate with the overwhelming majority of Americans. Perhaps that’s what really bothers you, and articles like this are just the last, desperate gasp of a dying socialist worldview.
You just don’t get it, do you? Perhaps if the NYT and the so-called “mainstream” media had not been so overtly pro-Clinton, and just reported the news in an un-biased, objective manner, you’d have more credibility. And all this nonsense talk of “false equivalency” and the need to cover the candidates unequally is what is really pernicious, and dangerous, for our democracy, not the alt-right. Luckily, the American people know and understand the bias of the mainstream media, and tuned it out during this election.
But, perhaps, what your argument really boils down to is fear of the mainstream media’s loss of its “privileged” status. The mainstream media i not, and therefore you are not, as influential as you used to be (or thought you were). You can whine about the alt-right, and blame it for Trump’s rise, but Trump’s win on Tuesday was in large part the result of millions of Americans who have never heard of the alt-right. How do you explain that? You can’t, because you’re so out-of-touch with America today that you’re opinions, and they are just that, opinions, don’t resonate with the overwhelming majority of Americans. Perhaps that’s what really bothers you, and articles like this are just the last, desperate gasp of a dying socialist worldview.
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The mainstream press is not really out of touch with the population.
Fox can be definitely be considered mainstream because it's cable ratings beat all others, yet Fox was a tag-line like Trump - you're stupid if you watch/believe.
And therein lies the reason - people who watched Fox were/are maligned as stupid or the 'isms list and can be safely ignored. Yet we persisted and voted.
Most of the mainstream press is guilty of not stepping back and looking at the big picture - if they had, Fox would have stuck out like a sore thumb. If they had gotten beyond the big cities, they would have seen the Trump signs everywhere (I couldn't do a yard sign in my area as the sign would have been vandalized and I would have been ostracized).
I have been pleased that that the Times is doing some soul-searching and have liked the informative articles that are still the reason I read the Times. I might even resubscribe to the Economist after they do their soul-searching.
The work-a-day folks called a halt to the liberal excesses and the criminality of the elites.
Is Donald a perfect vehicle for the needed transformation? No, he's not, but any port in a storm.
Fox can be definitely be considered mainstream because it's cable ratings beat all others, yet Fox was a tag-line like Trump - you're stupid if you watch/believe.
And therein lies the reason - people who watched Fox were/are maligned as stupid or the 'isms list and can be safely ignored. Yet we persisted and voted.
Most of the mainstream press is guilty of not stepping back and looking at the big picture - if they had, Fox would have stuck out like a sore thumb. If they had gotten beyond the big cities, they would have seen the Trump signs everywhere (I couldn't do a yard sign in my area as the sign would have been vandalized and I would have been ostracized).
I have been pleased that that the Times is doing some soul-searching and have liked the informative articles that are still the reason I read the Times. I might even resubscribe to the Economist after they do their soul-searching.
The work-a-day folks called a halt to the liberal excesses and the criminality of the elites.
Is Donald a perfect vehicle for the needed transformation? No, he's not, but any port in a storm.
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The diagnosis is correct - but what is the cure? The cancer is spreading fast. False news is winning. The host cells are dying - America is on the verge of economic and social collapse (ironic that the Trump will bring about the dystopian future he promised that the other side would bring). Do the mainstream media, which caused this cancer, have a solution? I guess it it too much to ask the culprit for restitution!
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You're right. The Times has missed all those scoops. Why? Isn't it news that these sites are publishing all these lies? What if the Times had a regular column checking in on the alt-right, complete with iconography such as the photo Kristof included? Keep Times readers up to date on what's happening out there in conspiracy-land.
Trump is an opportunist. It appears that he will use any tactic and pander (temporarily) to any group (good or evil) to forward his personal interest, because he truly believes that anything that brings instantaneous gratification to him is good for America. His track record indicates that he will always put Trump first, not anything or anyone else. I'm just assuming that he's changing his name to America. That, in essence, is the way that Republicans typically solve the problem of delivering on a campaign promise.
Sorry middle class, you'll be paying for the 1 million dollar (minimum) apiece tax break that each member of the Trump family will receive next year, and every year going forward. You are now paying for the Trump Family business headquarters in Washington, DC, and you will be funding his and their international campaigns to market the Trump brand.
You just gave the GOP and Trump, the keys to the car that Obama spent 8 years diligently winching out of the deep dark ditch of conservative, Republican doctrine.
All indications are that Trump is going to make America great again, using the same approach that Putin used to make Russia great again, and he'll probably be trying to leverage Putin to help him behind the scenes.
I guess that the upside of this is that we'll have two egomaniacal, oligarchical trillionaires in the world. They are bound to reduce that to one, once the initial pleasure of mutual admiration transitions to greed.
Sorry middle class, you'll be paying for the 1 million dollar (minimum) apiece tax break that each member of the Trump family will receive next year, and every year going forward. You are now paying for the Trump Family business headquarters in Washington, DC, and you will be funding his and their international campaigns to market the Trump brand.
You just gave the GOP and Trump, the keys to the car that Obama spent 8 years diligently winching out of the deep dark ditch of conservative, Republican doctrine.
All indications are that Trump is going to make America great again, using the same approach that Putin used to make Russia great again, and he'll probably be trying to leverage Putin to help him behind the scenes.
I guess that the upside of this is that we'll have two egomaniacal, oligarchical trillionaires in the world. They are bound to reduce that to one, once the initial pleasure of mutual admiration transitions to greed.
If the main stream media, including the NYTimes, had done their job, Americans wouldn't have been presented with the two worst presidential candidates in history (and now President-Elect Trump) nor would people be flocking to questionable websites for information.
You have nobody to blame but yourselves.
You have nobody to blame but yourselves.
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The mainstream media may well be out of touch with the folks who voted for the Republican candidate--their concerns about rapid social change and the potential second-generation time bomb of Middle-Eastern immigration are not completely unreasonable--but those folks are completely out of touch with the whole rest of the world. If they had relied on traditional American news sources, or gone to any non-American source for information, they'd know that America WAS great, but as of Tuesday is LESS great in the eyes of more than half of American voters and all of the rest of the world.
As for the rise of alt-reality "news," next year is not 2017; it's 1984.
As for the rise of alt-reality "news," next year is not 2017; it's 1984.
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The sub-text of this column is that unlike the enlightened Mr. Kristof, the average American voter is too dumb to know the difference between real news and fake news, and that is why Clinton lost. What Mr. Kristof and his friends refuse to recognize is that there is a fatal contradiction between their promotion of open borders and their alleged concern for the economic well-being of blue-collar Americans of all races. More immigration results in lower wages for working class Americans, as Mr. Kristof himself finally admitted about a year ago. When you play in a zero-sum game, you need to set priorities. But this is what the left refuses to do, and the more egregious ones even prioritize immigration over the well-being of their own citizens.
There is no reason for blue-collar Americans to vote to commit suicide just because that would earn them a pat on the back from a newspaper published on a small island in the North-East corner of the US.
There is no reason for blue-collar Americans to vote to commit suicide just because that would earn them a pat on the back from a newspaper published on a small island in the North-East corner of the US.
The MSM needs to recognize that they are fighting evil. It is not a level playing field. It is not equivalent. The Republicans have been perfecting their evil ways since forever. That the MSM didn't howl about the "born in Kenya" speaks volumes.
This is getting very scary. I think that is why people are out in the streets. It's all getting away from us because the party of evil is now in charge.
This is getting very scary. I think that is why people are out in the streets. It's all getting away from us because the party of evil is now in charge.
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I know that President Obama was born in Hawaii. But let's say, hypothetically, that he was not. Then his circumstances would have been exactly the same as those of Ted Cruz, who was not disqualified -- born outside the US to an American mother. Isn't it odd how the rules change when the person in question is a Republican?
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The two biggest factors in the rise of Trump are, without a doubt, anger from those who believe they're entitled to good jobs but don't want to recognize the changes in the economy brought by technology, and false equivalency. The anger is real, and even understandable, but the power of that anger in making people see goodness where evil lurks, and the alt-right media's ability to take advantage of that anger, made (almost) 50% of the electorate see a criminal sociopath as a savior and a (mostly) high-minded, but private email server prone policy wonk, as a criminal. The press is largely responsible for not shining enough light on Trump's criminality and sociopathic endeavors while allowing it to seem like the use of an email server, or a difficult decision made during an emergency (Benghazi), were comparable. If the press was fair, rather than trying to appear fair, there would have been 10 stories about how horrible Trump is for every 1 about Clinton.
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I think the liberals and the NY Times have initiated a tremendous amount of fear (besides blatant hatred). President Elect Trump cannot fix an unaffordable health care plan in a day or two. People are making a tremendous amount of false assumptions due to fear mongering from the left. It is very clear these protesting ranting and raving against the Constitution are not productive citizens and have nothing better to do with their time.
2
The news media kept on and on and on discussing Trump, having his cronies and spokespeople give their glowing comments on this flawed candidate. Of course, Comey helped their cause. I wish this paper would investigate the key role played by Avinash Iragavarapu, who identified key buttons and words for the Trump people to fan the flames of hatred against Hillary Clinton. This took Trump's campaign to new heights in terms of lies and deceit. Apparently, Trump intends to grant citizenship to Avinash Iragavarapu and have him on his staff. This poisonous individual should be kept away from the US.
You lost because of the economy.
Pretty simple the Democrats did not do enough so a change was needed.
Stop demonising the white male as they helped make this country a super power. Stop calling people stupid because they don't agree with your ideals.
Stop encouraging this hatred or you will not win the swinging vote and get back into power.
Show some love.
Pretty simple the Democrats did not do enough so a change was needed.
Stop demonising the white male as they helped make this country a super power. Stop calling people stupid because they don't agree with your ideals.
Stop encouraging this hatred or you will not win the swinging vote and get back into power.
Show some love.
this one got around a lot - Obama was going to tear down the statue of liberty because muslims were offended she wasn't in hijab. reposted all over facebook. I was shocked to see it. "How dare he!" "How is he still President?" "Why isn't this in the lame stream news! Obama is being protected by them!" I felt so hopeless.
How about not publishing "click bait" headlines? The New York Times and every other online news source does this, and it is misleading and offensive. Instead, make headlines informative.
Also, how about a break from publishing photos of right-wing ranters? I think we all know what the POTUS-elect looks like, and it makes our skin crawl to see that image again and again. Perhaps leave off the names of those who fabricate "news" that is untrue. Report the stories as malicious gossip without mentioning the person or group responsible.
Also, how about a break from publishing photos of right-wing ranters? I think we all know what the POTUS-elect looks like, and it makes our skin crawl to see that image again and again. Perhaps leave off the names of those who fabricate "news" that is untrue. Report the stories as malicious gossip without mentioning the person or group responsible.
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Kristof, instead of criticizing right wing media- even though you may be right to some extents- why don't you start with some self-criticism and apology to the readers. Your newspaper was completely unreliable and deceptive during this election campaign. However, Breitbart, which you would consider right wing, did get it right.
The business model is called "Fox News."
Those getting their "news" from the Times were told just a little over a week ago, in a "news" story, that Trump's chances of winning were basically zero because "Pennsylvania remains out of reach for Mr. Trump." And just today, a Times "news" story tells us President Trump's policies will result in "an angry, jeering, us-against-them nation to be led by a new president who relishes reality-show name-calling with racial overtones." That's supposedly a Times news story, from just today, and not an op-ed piece. There's the alt right media, and apparently now there's the alt left media, led by the Times. It's a two sided coin. Finding relatively neutral, factual news reporting is more of a challenge than ever. These are sad days for what used to be called journalism. And the position of intolerant, self-assured sanctimony that you help to promote is part of this problem, Mr. Kristof.
Aside from shirking your duty to confront and expose the lies and misinformation regularly used by Trump and the alt-right "news" media, you neglect to acknowledge the mainstream media's (MSM) bias that may not be as outrageous, but is there nonetheless. It's this hypocrisy that allows those who swallow the alt-right lies to justify it by pointing - rightly - the "librul media" lies all the time.
Just look at the NYT coverage of the Clinton and Sanders campaigns - do you really expect us to believe that your coverage was fair and equal? When you so obviously print stories and opinions that favor your POV, and ignore or downplay anything that might challenge it, you're engaging in the same behavior you decry in the alt-right media. And this is a large part of why Hillary Clinton was able to grab the nomination, and ultimately lose the election.
The MSM, and especially the NT, has a lot of soul-searching to do, but from what I've seen so far, you're still looking with biased vision.
Just look at the NYT coverage of the Clinton and Sanders campaigns - do you really expect us to believe that your coverage was fair and equal? When you so obviously print stories and opinions that favor your POV, and ignore or downplay anything that might challenge it, you're engaging in the same behavior you decry in the alt-right media. And this is a large part of why Hillary Clinton was able to grab the nomination, and ultimately lose the election.
The MSM, and especially the NT, has a lot of soul-searching to do, but from what I've seen so far, you're still looking with biased vision.
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As someone who does not get his news from Facebook, I am finding out only AFTER the election that totally false "news." such as that the Pope endorsed Donald Trump, reached hundereds of thousands of people BEFORE the election. Does anyone doubt that such stories had some effect on the outcome? Where were the reports in the so-called mainstream media debunking these falsehoods? The idea of covering a campaign responsibly now must include monitoring social media and exposing false stories it spreads. Sadly, this additional responsibility comes at a time when the traditional (fact-based) media are imploding because of economic changes. ironically, it is probably the long history of relatively honest journalism in this country that contributes to people being less skeptical than they should be about anything presented as news.
Two other quick questions: Are the schools teaching kids today how to be responsible consuners of media, including social media? And why didn't the Clinton campaign do a better job of countering this propaganda?
Two other quick questions: Are the schools teaching kids today how to be responsible consuners of media, including social media? And why didn't the Clinton campaign do a better job of countering this propaganda?
This was an "electoral coup". The FBI and it's director needs to be investigated for their role in electing this dangerous demagogue to the White House. Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by over 2 million votes.
If not for Comey's blatant act of intentional meddling on the part of the FBI, she would also have won the electoral vote as well.
The USA as we have known it for the last 60 years is done. We are now in uncharted territory. The last time we elected a president who lost the popular vote was 16 years ago and look at the mess he left the world in.
That period will seem like a "walk in the park" compared to what this lecherous tyrant and his cabal is about to do.
If not for Comey's blatant act of intentional meddling on the part of the FBI, she would also have won the electoral vote as well.
The USA as we have known it for the last 60 years is done. We are now in uncharted territory. The last time we elected a president who lost the popular vote was 16 years ago and look at the mess he left the world in.
That period will seem like a "walk in the park" compared to what this lecherous tyrant and his cabal is about to do.
I don't buy the narrative that Democrats were out of touch. Democrats know that the working man is struggling. But Republicans have served as obstructionists and let the working man suffer, knowing that the party of the President would be blamed. Democrats wanted a larger stimulus. They fought to save the auto industry for Michigan. Democrats tried getting health insurance to people in red states but their Republican governors denied Medicaid expansion. Democrats fought for small business tax cuts. Republicans fought for tax cuts for the rich. Who's looking out for the working man? Come on.
The mainstream media has always covered macro news. The alt-right news sources are tabloids. I don't know why people are so trusting of random sources. It's odd.
The mainstream media has always covered macro news. The alt-right news sources are tabloids. I don't know why people are so trusting of random sources. It's odd.
I sat next to a woman last week who told me she was voting for Trump because she is tired of women using abortion to kill babies at 8 months.
I told her that that NEVER happens...that late term abortions are performed much earlier and usually for non viable fetus or the mother's health. You cant find a doctor anywhere that would do such a thing.
But she just shook her head and called me misinformed.
She loves Alex Jones.
That is the poison infecting otherwise reasonable people who no longer practice reason. They know what they know and they no longer listen to anything but the affirmation they want to hear.
I told her that that NEVER happens...that late term abortions are performed much earlier and usually for non viable fetus or the mother's health. You cant find a doctor anywhere that would do such a thing.
But she just shook her head and called me misinformed.
She loves Alex Jones.
That is the poison infecting otherwise reasonable people who no longer practice reason. They know what they know and they no longer listen to anything but the affirmation they want to hear.
I enjoy your writing. It has both depth and sensitivity.
Just some thoughts about statistics that you seem to rely on heavily. I was the victim of watching large presentations at the top of the NYT election polls. They portrayed Hilary’s alleged % chances on November 8th as astronomically high relative to the opposition.
In retrospect the conclusions by your employer were badly mistaken. They have set back, arguably, the public’s view of the NYT’s scientific veracity.
Perhaps addressing the shortcomings of relying on home snail mail responses or trying to reach by phone what is in no small part an unlisted cell phone only population should have been the topic of your essay. Or perhaps whether a silent majority had hidden its preference rather than being “humiliated” telephonically. Or even the shortcomings of the assumptions in much of the polling.
Nor did you propose how the NYT in the future will stay in touch with the population you disregarded during the election. Instead you, in my opinion, dropped your high standards and stooped to the level of blaming sleazy electronic journalism for the Republican victory.
Just some thoughts about statistics that you seem to rely on heavily. I was the victim of watching large presentations at the top of the NYT election polls. They portrayed Hilary’s alleged % chances on November 8th as astronomically high relative to the opposition.
In retrospect the conclusions by your employer were badly mistaken. They have set back, arguably, the public’s view of the NYT’s scientific veracity.
Perhaps addressing the shortcomings of relying on home snail mail responses or trying to reach by phone what is in no small part an unlisted cell phone only population should have been the topic of your essay. Or perhaps whether a silent majority had hidden its preference rather than being “humiliated” telephonically. Or even the shortcomings of the assumptions in much of the polling.
Nor did you propose how the NYT in the future will stay in touch with the population you disregarded during the election. Instead you, in my opinion, dropped your high standards and stooped to the level of blaming sleazy electronic journalism for the Republican victory.
2
Something suppressed the turnout by millions of expected voters.
Was it realization that standing for an hour in line to vote is just a stupid waste of time for dreamy little children where cosmopolitans tend to congregate?
Was it realization that standing for an hour in line to vote is just a stupid waste of time for dreamy little children where cosmopolitans tend to congregate?
It amazes me how many of these comments refer to half of Americans as being idiots. Maybe Kristof needs to write a new series of articles entitled " New York Times readers don't get it" It will also require at least 7 parts.
4
Todd of Key West: Your comment about a 7-part series to explain Trump voters to New Yorkers apropos our columnist NK's proclivity for explaining subjects in multiple volumes made me fall off my seat this morning--laughing.
2
I'm an idiot. I stood in line for an hour to cast a vote that would be automatically discarded under the Electoral College counting method.
And yet... The consumers of alt-right news are not all idiot children or zombies, are they? At some point aren't people accountable for what they ingest? By blaming the media, we are treating all of the people who pay attention like a great sea of mindless organic synapses with no power to choose or discern the truth from a lie. Political campaigns have become an attempt to slosh the whole mess one way or another through tricks and lies and various seductions.
I guess it is just not possible or productive to turn our focus away from the media and say, "hey, People! What's wrong with you?"
I guess it is just not possible or productive to turn our focus away from the media and say, "hey, People! What's wrong with you?"
I read the NYT, and get my news from other good sources too. But where I live, I am surrounded by people who get their information from the "other sources" you mention. I have long given up trying to reason with these folks - there seems to be no way to have an intelligent discussion when clear unambiguous facts are reflexively dismissed.
It is impossible to arrive at any reasonable agreement without first agreeing on the most obvious facts so that the differences (ideological, moral, etc.) can be meaningfully discussed and worked out. Dismissing facts gets us to where we are now.
Granted, given that cons are as American as apple pie - from politicians, banks, used car salesmen, religious leaders, marketers, to private "universities", and yes parts of government - I am not surprised by the mistrust in all the good that America has too.
It is tough to ferret out the truth when so much of the "gotchas" are all buried in the "fine print" and obscure legal and tax advantages that give scammers a pass. Manipulating and irresponsibly exploiting Free Speech has become a license to lie, cheat and steal.
Trump proved that one can lie and bully one's way to the presidency - pretty much as he has done his entire business life.
Who knew that lying is an extremely profitable business! It is the American way - half the American population obviously approve even if most are victims themselves.
Unfortunately, bigger bullhorns and larger fonts will only make us all deaf and blind too.
It is impossible to arrive at any reasonable agreement without first agreeing on the most obvious facts so that the differences (ideological, moral, etc.) can be meaningfully discussed and worked out. Dismissing facts gets us to where we are now.
Granted, given that cons are as American as apple pie - from politicians, banks, used car salesmen, religious leaders, marketers, to private "universities", and yes parts of government - I am not surprised by the mistrust in all the good that America has too.
It is tough to ferret out the truth when so much of the "gotchas" are all buried in the "fine print" and obscure legal and tax advantages that give scammers a pass. Manipulating and irresponsibly exploiting Free Speech has become a license to lie, cheat and steal.
Trump proved that one can lie and bully one's way to the presidency - pretty much as he has done his entire business life.
Who knew that lying is an extremely profitable business! It is the American way - half the American population obviously approve even if most are victims themselves.
Unfortunately, bigger bullhorns and larger fonts will only make us all deaf and blind too.
This is nothing new. Extremists on the left and right have been publishing misinformation and paranoid intolerance for decades and decades. What is different now is social media, which extends their reach, and the fact that we all have done little to stop the demonization of those with whom we disagree. Mainstream media repeats the view that your opponent is not your fellow citizen with a different argument, but an enemy who has to be utterly destroyed. Social media allows us to completely avoid competing points of view, allows for poorly motivated reasoning, and ultimately obviates the need for asking one's self what might be flawed or incomplete in one's point of view. Media at all levels as echo chamber is becoming a serious problem.
2
This is spot-on. It has been clear to me for awhile now that we don't have a crisis of low-information voters, we have a crisis of willfully mis-informed voters.
134
So it is the news media's obligation to report the lies and deceptions! They cannot become cowards and tremble in the face of political money and power. It will be our duty to watch the news media who should be watching out for us the American people, and if they abandon and abdicate their duty we will have to replace them as much as we will have to replace the repugnant politicians!
When you whittle it all down, we are confronting a vast right-wing political propaganda machine in the making, the likes of which we have never seen in this country. Unfettered by the truth, it has already grown into a behemoth, thanks in part to Trump declaring war on the free press (Steve Bannon, Trump's limits on press access, his mocking of reporters) and disseminating lies himself at breakneck speed. As soon as his regime begins, he is sure to clamp down harder on news outlets that do not tow the party line. I would not be surprised if he formed something akin to a Ministry of Propaganda in the coming months, an organ he will micromanage. The fact that he wants to hold rallies while president to deliver his message directly to the people (Mussolini, Castro) is a signal of this.
3
I wonder if Facebook deciding to go to being available by subscription rather than free, with advertising, would reduce this problem.
So let me see if I get you right, Mr. Kristof, as a reader you actually have to take responsibility for critically assessing what you are reading, starting with the source, then the time of publication, then the author, and then the first word in the article/clip, in your case "If".
You mean no more pre-digested and regurgitated "news" according to some or other echo chamber "of record"? A chamber that now even thinks hard about where to place the commas so as to create and deliver ex-cathedra what it thinks is the right "truthiness"?
Finally, the age of individual responsibility has arrived. For some of us it never left, of course.
You mean no more pre-digested and regurgitated "news" according to some or other echo chamber "of record"? A chamber that now even thinks hard about where to place the commas so as to create and deliver ex-cathedra what it thinks is the right "truthiness"?
Finally, the age of individual responsibility has arrived. For some of us it never left, of course.
1
So what would effectively counter the lies of alt-right news (aka, the right wing information bubble)? It sure isn't fact checking alone, Trump figured that out very early. Consumers of alt-right news want "facts" which entertain and which enhance their self identities. Perhaps one effective counter would be fact checking used as the basis for aggressive, cruel humor making public fun of the not-so-bright people who believe the lies? Con men like Trump are very good at selling lies they want to hear to easy marks. But it's more difficult when the marks are being laughed at for believing. The humor would have to be aggressive and cruel to be effective and many of these marks are, in fact, pitiful. But they have put the rest of us at risk with their arrogance in insisting on their own realities.
2
Most of the social fabric of this country was the collective experience of the World War II generation. Now that they are dead or too old to assert themselves everything will reorient around the people whose strength of character shines out from the chaos. Trump is not a believer of anything but he is a strong personality. Unless the truth as you see it, mr kristof, has passionate supporters whose emotions not just their certainty plays a role in thwir politics they world you're arguing in defense of will slip further into oblivion. We were all playing in our elders' sandbox, now we have to learn to live in the world outside of it where passion always carries more weight than obedience to a concept of logic.
Let us not forget the Alt-Left Web sites that are just as pernicious as the Alt-Right ones. The Internet has allowed the creation of media bubbles for every stripe of political leaning. And that is the real problem. People get into these bubbles and never come out. They believe the partial facts and total lies that the bubbles push because they validate their own beliefs and views regardless of the actual facts. People need to burst their bubbles and see the world with a whole view, not just their bubble view.
2
I think of the media as the critical "fourth estate" essential to our democracy. Thank you for having the courage to reflect and comment on the role they played in the development of this hideous false equivalency construct that was a significant enabler of Trump's victory.
It was with chagrin and despair that I watched "legitimate" cable tv channels, CNN and MSNBC, break into the news, and on more than one occasion witnessed legitimate newspapers, report Trump's lies and vitriol with no comments about their veracity.
When challenged, the same reporters said they were not in the business of stating opinions, but their role was to report facts. Lies are not facts. A fact is that Trump relentlessly lied and the media provided him with a megaphone.
News has become entertainment, sensation drives market share, market share provides notoriety and money for reporters and the enterprise. Am I in despair, no. I can think of a number of newspapers: NY Times, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg News, etc that I rely on for my information. But I am more cautious than I have ever been.
It was with chagrin and despair that I watched "legitimate" cable tv channels, CNN and MSNBC, break into the news, and on more than one occasion witnessed legitimate newspapers, report Trump's lies and vitriol with no comments about their veracity.
When challenged, the same reporters said they were not in the business of stating opinions, but their role was to report facts. Lies are not facts. A fact is that Trump relentlessly lied and the media provided him with a megaphone.
News has become entertainment, sensation drives market share, market share provides notoriety and money for reporters and the enterprise. Am I in despair, no. I can think of a number of newspapers: NY Times, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg News, etc that I rely on for my information. But I am more cautious than I have ever been.
2
I can't make the FB alt-right posts go away. All I can do is repeatedly click 'hide ad' on the drop-down menu in the upper right of each individual post. This was especially true of the aggressive Trump fund-raising posts which, according to a recent NYT article, apparently were sent to me because I'm over age 27. Result, I go to FB less. Admittedly I have few FB friends, in part because I won't 'friend' anyone I haven't met in person, and in this hyperpartisan year I've 'unfollowed' at least one friend because, even though I agree with her, I'm tired of politics and just want everyone to put a sock in it already.
FB began, perhaps, as a useful way to keep in touch with an extended network of friends, acquaintances, colleagues, and persons sharing mutual interests, and exchange news and musings. Like the man who killed the goose that laid the golden eggs in order to get all the eggs at once, and wound up with only a carcass and a pile of bloody feathers, FB is going to kill its brainchild in an attempt to extract maximum profit.
FB began, perhaps, as a useful way to keep in touch with an extended network of friends, acquaintances, colleagues, and persons sharing mutual interests, and exchange news and musings. Like the man who killed the goose that laid the golden eggs in order to get all the eggs at once, and wound up with only a carcass and a pile of bloody feathers, FB is going to kill its brainchild in an attempt to extract maximum profit.
1
All I can say is keep at it. The best part of this column is the simple iteration of lies. Call them out on each and every one. Shaming will not work on the shameless. We need a Mark Train or Ambrose Pierce or Sarah Cleghorn to laugh these idiots to the holes from which they have emerged.
Sorry, but it's over for mainstream news, which started to die 40 years ago when local television stations discovered "yellow tape journalism". Why pay for a statehouse reporter or value subject (beat) expertise, when you can hire younger, more photogenic people to stand in front of a crime scene and scare the audience? "Network" predicted the impact of this change for TV, but the internet makes it possible to tailor news to each person's specific fears and prejudices. News for actual frontal lobe consumption is rapidly going the way of the dodo. And I don't know anyone who knows what to do to fix this. We might start with a much clearer assessment of how the media, particularly the 24 hour news channels handled this election.
81
This sounds a bit like the classic pot calling the kettle black metaphor. The mainstream media also dramatically remakes the news into their own narrative as well. That's the problem on which you might want to focus. Perhaps if the NYT did that then fewer people would be inclined to go looking for alternative news sources.
2
I've been thinking about looking at Steve Bannon's Breitbart just to see what is out there. Maybe I'd start publishing whatever I found on Facebook. Would like to see the Times take on this project. Probably need a staff to do the project justice. Better to concentrate on a man likely to have an important position under Trump.
1
The abysmal coverage of the entire e-mail "scandal" by the mainstream media, in particular the NYT, with its breathless "revelations" about HRC's private server leads my personal hit parade. There were just over 100 e-mails that contained information LATER deemed to be classified -- and that out of over 30,000 e-mails. Yet Comey was allowed to characterize this as "extreme carelessness" and offer nothing but pure conjecture over whether or not that information was hacked -- and the lapdog media sat there panting with excitement instead of pushing back.
And the other media "source" that deserves scorn is Facebook. The alt-right and fake news sites flooded Facebook with one "story" after another -- and despite the outright lies the Facebook "team" let it roll. Zuckerburg's contention in another article in today's NYT that “Of all the content on Facebook, more than 99% of what people see is authentic. Only a very small amount is fake news and hoaxes” is pure rubbish. In the last month of the campaign I doubt that little more than half of what was posted was the truth. I've pretty much given up going to Facebook for anything other than communicating with my immediate family. So many friends and relatives willingly and, in some cases, gleefully, puked misinformation that the idea of unfriending them all became attractive.
And the other media "source" that deserves scorn is Facebook. The alt-right and fake news sites flooded Facebook with one "story" after another -- and despite the outright lies the Facebook "team" let it roll. Zuckerburg's contention in another article in today's NYT that “Of all the content on Facebook, more than 99% of what people see is authentic. Only a very small amount is fake news and hoaxes” is pure rubbish. In the last month of the campaign I doubt that little more than half of what was posted was the truth. I've pretty much given up going to Facebook for anything other than communicating with my immediate family. So many friends and relatives willingly and, in some cases, gleefully, puked misinformation that the idea of unfriending them all became attractive.
2
Trump is correct about illegals being illegal. The NYtimes aided his win by accusing those whose lives have been made worse by illegal immigrants - racist. This made them angry.
2. Trump is also correct about trade with China having decimated jobs. I have been saying for years that tariffs on China would be equitable and give us the inflation we need. It would bring jobs home, make stuff cost more but that would create multipliers in an economy racked with inflation. But the NYtimes just pushes the free trade and if it disadvantages you and Trump speaks to you on this you are a "deplorable"
Now the other nonsense is nonsense, and the NYTimes may be suprised to know that many deplorables understand it is nonsense. But by accusing people of being racist or deplorable because of 1 and 2 gave Trump the election.
Well it didnt give Trump the election, he is a loud puppet. It gave the right wing of the GOP the election and now the carnage will start: Bye bye climate, obamacare, gun control, abortion, womens rights.....
So the NYTimes (and the censors who stopped my comments every time I tried to say 1 and 2.) have a lot to answer for.
2. Trump is also correct about trade with China having decimated jobs. I have been saying for years that tariffs on China would be equitable and give us the inflation we need. It would bring jobs home, make stuff cost more but that would create multipliers in an economy racked with inflation. But the NYtimes just pushes the free trade and if it disadvantages you and Trump speaks to you on this you are a "deplorable"
Now the other nonsense is nonsense, and the NYTimes may be suprised to know that many deplorables understand it is nonsense. But by accusing people of being racist or deplorable because of 1 and 2 gave Trump the election.
Well it didnt give Trump the election, he is a loud puppet. It gave the right wing of the GOP the election and now the carnage will start: Bye bye climate, obamacare, gun control, abortion, womens rights.....
So the NYTimes (and the censors who stopped my comments every time I tried to say 1 and 2.) have a lot to answer for.
1
News of the future, I expect to see reported on looney tune alt-right sites next week:
Roger Ailes will say he has never met a man who has
treated women better than Donald Trump.
The National Enquirer will publish a detailed report indicating that Trump is related to the Kardashians.
Drudge will report that Hillary owns an AK-47, favors cats over dogs and worships the devil.
Kellyanne Conway will say that Trump once wanted to be a priest, a rabbi or a minister.
Mike Pence will say that being around Trump has been a religious awakening for him, like being around Mother Teresa or Pope John.
Melania will say that her husband is a kind and gentle lover who brings her breakfast in bed.
Trump University will announce that it is awarding honorary doctorates to Trump in international law, political science and nuclear physics.
Gang leaders and drug kingpins from New York, Chicago and Kansas City will extend invitations to Trump to meet with them at their headquarters for “frank discussions” of his plans to institute random stop-and-frisk laws programs in their neighborhoods.
Breitbart will report that Hillary Clinton was planning to appoint Anthony Weiner and a Scientologist -- probably Tom Cruise -- to the Supreme Court.
Drudge says Mexico will pay for the wall in exchange for Trump's agreeing to become a woman.
Breitbart reports that voting machines
in New York City and Philadelphia were hacked by agents of the Mossad working for Hillary
Roger Ailes will say he has never met a man who has
treated women better than Donald Trump.
The National Enquirer will publish a detailed report indicating that Trump is related to the Kardashians.
Drudge will report that Hillary owns an AK-47, favors cats over dogs and worships the devil.
Kellyanne Conway will say that Trump once wanted to be a priest, a rabbi or a minister.
Mike Pence will say that being around Trump has been a religious awakening for him, like being around Mother Teresa or Pope John.
Melania will say that her husband is a kind and gentle lover who brings her breakfast in bed.
Trump University will announce that it is awarding honorary doctorates to Trump in international law, political science and nuclear physics.
Gang leaders and drug kingpins from New York, Chicago and Kansas City will extend invitations to Trump to meet with them at their headquarters for “frank discussions” of his plans to institute random stop-and-frisk laws programs in their neighborhoods.
Breitbart will report that Hillary Clinton was planning to appoint Anthony Weiner and a Scientologist -- probably Tom Cruise -- to the Supreme Court.
Drudge says Mexico will pay for the wall in exchange for Trump's agreeing to become a woman.
Breitbart reports that voting machines
in New York City and Philadelphia were hacked by agents of the Mossad working for Hillary
1
Nicholas,
You were "out of touch with working-class America" all right! One of the most preeminent newspapers in the world couldn't foresee the biggest political upset of a lifetime because you decided to go all in on a Hillary Presidency before giving Bernie a longer, second look. Somebody needs to review best practices over there because you guys are slipping fast..
You were "out of touch with working-class America" all right! One of the most preeminent newspapers in the world couldn't foresee the biggest political upset of a lifetime because you decided to go all in on a Hillary Presidency before giving Bernie a longer, second look. Somebody needs to review best practices over there because you guys are slipping fast..
2
This article is ridiculous considering the amazing level of editorializing that the NY Times and the WAPO did while covering this campaign never mind the fact that they got the results wrong in their predictions. The Liberal elite have to really sit down and do some serious soul searching (even though they may not believe in God or a soul) and maybe they will begin to realize what many who do know some things about spiritual matters have recognized a long time ago and that is that they, the Liberal elites, are arrogant, condescening to, and intolerant of those who do not agree with them, that democracy is not just when it comes out in favor of what you believe in and when it doesn't you can run into the streets and protest the results, like a bunch of spoiled brats. Democracy is much more complex than that. That you cannot insult and mock the religious faith, patriotism and traditional values of the people in the heartland of a country. These are the people who grow your food, work in factories making everything from the medical supplies that are essential to the running of your hospitals to the supplies that are used to build your buildings and homes. If you cannot respect these people and their point of view then maybe democracy is just not your thing.
1
Misinformation in politics of all types is really damaging & should be illegal. Along with election reform thus would be a real step toward improving our system. It's amazing this isn't seen as a national priority.
It's not mentioned here,but what about "stronger together"? What about the value of diversity? What about the heartfelt, positive themes found in the Democratic Convention? Themes essential to taking America forward. Why weren't voters grabbed by the eloquence of the speakers there? Why the view that there was no message?
It's not the party or its concept of the campaign, which was right on target. It was the apathy of the many who yawned and stayed home instead of voting.
It's not the party or its concept of the campaign, which was right on target. It was the apathy of the many who yawned and stayed home instead of voting.
1
Yes, they stayed home, but the other half of the country said: bunk! and did go to vote. And you still defend the party and its concept as deserving to win? When you can't wake up even your own base, you are doomed.
1
This piece is yet another blatant admission of left wing bias in the MSM. Indeed, Mr. Kristof laments that the MSM did not do even more to defeat Trump. This article, just as most members of the MSM and their political friends on the left and in academia, exudes intellectual arrogance. Describe a few crazy ideas of the tin hat crowd and then imply that all who supported Trump are primitive morons, and with typical group-think methodology ("basket of deplorables"), assign the tag of "alt-right". Perhaps, just perhaps, the campaign would have been different if the MSM had focused more on accurately reporting the clear policy differences between HRC and Trump, rather than organizing October surprises and becoming the biggest donor in kind to the Democrats. So much of the MSM reporting was like a kid on the playground screaming, "You have to do what I say because I'm smarter than you!" There is good reason why the election of Donald Trump was also a vote of no confidence against the MSM.
3
To me, a New York Times reader, the election results were really shocking. I think that Mr. Kristof's take on how media erred is quite accurate. But it is more than that. I think that many Democratic supporters were out of touch as well, along with the nominee, Mrs. Clinton. Mr. Sanders was more in touch with voters, seemed to understand Middle America better than the press and party establishment. At the time, I didn't recognize it, but see it only in hindsight.
The current media landscape with many partisan outlets, mostly of the extreme right (there isn't much of an extreme left in the US anymore that I can tell), makes it difficult to know what is really happening in the country. Because of the decline in profitability of mainstream news, there are fewer reporters. Polls alone are never enough to help readers or viewers understand what is happening in the country.
Certainly FBI director Comey had no business injecting himself into the election at the 11th hour with a non-story which gave the appearance of evidence. But contrary to Mrs. Clinton's claims, there were probably more important factors than Mr. Comey which account for the election results. Media coverage which lacked depth and breadth, Mrs. Clinton's (and most of the Democratic party) own lack of understanding of the impact of change on rural America left open the floor to a demagogue who promised things he can't possibly deliver.
The current media landscape with many partisan outlets, mostly of the extreme right (there isn't much of an extreme left in the US anymore that I can tell), makes it difficult to know what is really happening in the country. Because of the decline in profitability of mainstream news, there are fewer reporters. Polls alone are never enough to help readers or viewers understand what is happening in the country.
Certainly FBI director Comey had no business injecting himself into the election at the 11th hour with a non-story which gave the appearance of evidence. But contrary to Mrs. Clinton's claims, there were probably more important factors than Mr. Comey which account for the election results. Media coverage which lacked depth and breadth, Mrs. Clinton's (and most of the Democratic party) own lack of understanding of the impact of change on rural America left open the floor to a demagogue who promised things he can't possibly deliver.
To make your point of these "influential" channels of information, you link to a website's story that has exactly THREE comments. And it's been up for weeks. Please.
The bottom line is, since the days of putting McCain on the front page of the NY Times suggesting he is having an affair (Feb 2008) leading to comments like "I must say I am profoundly disappointed. As a conservative Republican who had counted the New York Times as a reliable source of daily news I might need to reconsider my readership", conservative readers have been pushed out into the wilderness to find truth in reporting.
If the NY Times had stayed unbiased, non-partisan and objective, readers would not be out there in the "alt-right" or whatever you call it these days. NY Times's biased reporting, from the topics they cover, to the information they share, to the very pictures they chose, spawned these non-mainstream "news" sources, and the NY Times is responsible for the rise of people like Trump.
The bottom line is, since the days of putting McCain on the front page of the NY Times suggesting he is having an affair (Feb 2008) leading to comments like "I must say I am profoundly disappointed. As a conservative Republican who had counted the New York Times as a reliable source of daily news I might need to reconsider my readership", conservative readers have been pushed out into the wilderness to find truth in reporting.
If the NY Times had stayed unbiased, non-partisan and objective, readers would not be out there in the "alt-right" or whatever you call it these days. NY Times's biased reporting, from the topics they cover, to the information they share, to the very pictures they chose, spawned these non-mainstream "news" sources, and the NY Times is responsible for the rise of people like Trump.
1
Thanks for putting a spotlight on a pernicious trend. It is astonishing to me, a consumer of "lame stream media," that people are gullible enough to accept the nonsense propagated by these sites. Facebook is fueling it: just this week, a Facebook ad for "Christian News" informed me that Hillary filed for divorce on Thursday.Did you know John Pedestal was a cannibal? A friend of mine was sent an email purporting to prove this...sent from an educated woman! The number of hateful and obviously false stories about Michelle and Barack Obama I've seen, thanks again to FB, can't be counted. And people believe them...I guess because they tell them something they want to believe.
It is not only on the alt-right side. I'm beginning to see stories about attacks on people by Trump supporters that I'm naturally cynical about. I'll believe them when my local daily or this newspaper reports them.
I'm old enough to remember when everyone lived in a two-newspaper town, which provided checks and balances on inaccurate stories. The Internet has become a threat to our Democracy. I'm seriously considering abandoning Facebook.
It is not only on the alt-right side. I'm beginning to see stories about attacks on people by Trump supporters that I'm naturally cynical about. I'll believe them when my local daily or this newspaper reports them.
I'm old enough to remember when everyone lived in a two-newspaper town, which provided checks and balances on inaccurate stories. The Internet has become a threat to our Democracy. I'm seriously considering abandoning Facebook.
What I find astonishing is that most members of the MSM (including the NYT) now fill their pages with more "analysis". This analysis runs the gamut from what went wrong, what we're in for now, what to do now, etc. The language used is erudite, so as to appear intelligent and accurate.
yet, very few columnists, analysts and writers take on the cloak of humility. Very few say, "I was wrong, and I might be again". Among other reasons, this is why there's so much mistrust of the MSM.
yet, very few columnists, analysts and writers take on the cloak of humility. Very few say, "I was wrong, and I might be again". Among other reasons, this is why there's so much mistrust of the MSM.
3
Patrick: In the Old South, there were over 800 fewer polling places for early voting--and the deficits were in Black areas. When the media reported a lower Black turnout in early voting, they did not report that. Over 300,000 would-be voters were turned away on technicalities in Wisconsin. Remember, the Roberts Court gutted the voting rights act. The North Carolina GOP is on record as boasting of having depressed Black turn-out. I could agree that the analysis is still defective, but Roberts, Comey, and the GOP in general fought dirtier than dirty. This is not democracy. Do not blame the media. Do not make the mistake of dreaming that all is well in America.
1
dEs...I didn't know that, thanks. I'm not dreaming; things are definitely not well in America.
Mr. Kristof,
Your evidence that an increase in alt-right media seems to steer the reader to an implied conclusion that misinformation guided the 2016 electorate. However, you never reflect on how many conservatives read the websites and believe they are reading the 'news.' You immediately dismiss the phenomenon on the left, despite longtime conservative claims that the left did this with Stephen Colbert, Jon Stewart, Trevor Noah and John Oliver. Your assumption, and the right's as well, is the other side is too stupid to realize they are being entertained. This opinion piece doubles down on the NYT's pre-election coverage and does nothing to advance a greater understanding of how the 'other side' lives, thinks, and is influenced.
-Hayden
Your evidence that an increase in alt-right media seems to steer the reader to an implied conclusion that misinformation guided the 2016 electorate. However, you never reflect on how many conservatives read the websites and believe they are reading the 'news.' You immediately dismiss the phenomenon on the left, despite longtime conservative claims that the left did this with Stephen Colbert, Jon Stewart, Trevor Noah and John Oliver. Your assumption, and the right's as well, is the other side is too stupid to realize they are being entertained. This opinion piece doubles down on the NYT's pre-election coverage and does nothing to advance a greater understanding of how the 'other side' lives, thinks, and is influenced.
-Hayden
4
When I read the anti Trump rhetoric in the NYT that is fueling protests against his election victory, I think of the poor Cleveland Indians.
After all they scored as many runs in the World Series as the Cubs, and yet the Cubs were declared the winners.
That just doesn't seem fair.
I think the Cleveland fans should ban together and protest by marching on Wrigley field with signs that read "The Cubs are not our World Series champions."
After all they scored as many runs in the World Series as the Cubs, and yet the Cubs were declared the winners.
That just doesn't seem fair.
I think the Cleveland fans should ban together and protest by marching on Wrigley field with signs that read "The Cubs are not our World Series champions."
4
So now it's onto the poisonous trump presidency.
Anyone noticed the votes in the counties from Texas to California, all along the border. With few exceptions, the counties that would house The Wall--all voted for HRC.
1
What you don't ask in this article is why so many people flock to these lies. What in such a large segment of the American population feels energized by lies, violence, outlandish judgment? Until we pinpoint that, we won't be able to change things. It isn't that these people aren't listened to, that somehow the legitimate complaints of a third of our people haven't been heard, but rather what is it psychologically in so many that supports the fear, the hatred, the ignorance?
1
The alt-right can print whatever ugly fantasies they want, and their readers will lap it up like a kitten laps milk, but they won't be able to hide the real outcomes of a Trump administration. The wonderful jobs will not magically appear; the environment will get dirtier and people will notice the bad air and water even if they think Trump cares about it and them (think Flint--another Republican shame story); at some point reality will intrude on their lives in ways that even they can't ignore or paper over with Trump lies. At that point, even those hypnotized by Republican and alt-right lies will be looking for some answers and the real media had better be ready to step in and provide them.
I read a while ago that reality has a liberal bias--we're about to see and feel that with a vengeance. When Marco Rubio told Floridians that there was no climate change and that the oceans are not rising, their response should have been, "then what is this water flooding into the streets every day?" His believe-me-instead-of-your-lying-eyes argument won't work for very long against water around one's ankles, although Floridians want to believe it so much right now that they elected him again. Guess they deserve what they get from his representation.
I thank God that in contrast, the Navy is led by realists who recognize that their bases and operations in Norfolk and other areas are in peril and are taking steps to work around it.
I read a while ago that reality has a liberal bias--we're about to see and feel that with a vengeance. When Marco Rubio told Floridians that there was no climate change and that the oceans are not rising, their response should have been, "then what is this water flooding into the streets every day?" His believe-me-instead-of-your-lying-eyes argument won't work for very long against water around one's ankles, although Floridians want to believe it so much right now that they elected him again. Guess they deserve what they get from his representation.
I thank God that in contrast, the Navy is led by realists who recognize that their bases and operations in Norfolk and other areas are in peril and are taking steps to work around it.
2
The post-election and newly evolving mea culpa of the MSM is astounding. Apparently, they are admitting they don't read their own comment sections or any other news source. Sorry, that pig won't fly.
The MSM has an agenda and it is closely tied to their corporate owners. The tenor of journalism has succumbed to sensationalized reporting designed to improve ratings and revenues. Unfortunately, the less than subliminal messaging always supports the establishment and the status quo which in turn is in cahoots with the wealthy.
The NYT is an extraordinary news organization in terms of coverage and pure talent - none better. So, it is impossible to believe that they haven't been aware of the pronounced disenchantment of most Americans with the direction of the country and specifically government.
We have been enmeshed in a cruel and unforgiving class war. The rich won because they had the unique ability to pay to play, and they acquired the wealth and power to control government and the Fourth Estate and of course enrich themselves even further.
There is no where for the people to go to redress their complaints. When 1% of the worlds's population controls 90% of the wealth and income, the only outcome that is possible is the complete domination of the 99%.
So, lets all go pray or gather around the campfire to sing Kumbaya just so we can get another night's sleep. This all shall pass in time, right? Wrong!!!
The MSM has an agenda and it is closely tied to their corporate owners. The tenor of journalism has succumbed to sensationalized reporting designed to improve ratings and revenues. Unfortunately, the less than subliminal messaging always supports the establishment and the status quo which in turn is in cahoots with the wealthy.
The NYT is an extraordinary news organization in terms of coverage and pure talent - none better. So, it is impossible to believe that they haven't been aware of the pronounced disenchantment of most Americans with the direction of the country and specifically government.
We have been enmeshed in a cruel and unforgiving class war. The rich won because they had the unique ability to pay to play, and they acquired the wealth and power to control government and the Fourth Estate and of course enrich themselves even further.
There is no where for the people to go to redress their complaints. When 1% of the worlds's population controls 90% of the wealth and income, the only outcome that is possible is the complete domination of the 99%.
So, lets all go pray or gather around the campfire to sing Kumbaya just so we can get another night's sleep. This all shall pass in time, right? Wrong!!!
4
So I'm guessing after reading this the Times will not be my source to report on if Hillary or Obama is the current Anti-Christ? This question needs to be answered. I didn't even know there was a chance to transfer that kind of power, so get to reporting on it....
There are problems with how media in this country operates. There are also problems with the people who allow this type of reporting to impact them.
There are problems with how media in this country operates. There are also problems with the people who allow this type of reporting to impact them.
2
It doesn't help when the Times editorial/opinion staff walks in lock-step for 18 months cheering Clinton on and uniformly bashing Trump without attempting to understand the number and passion of his supporters. The polls failed fabulously and the Times opinion writers missed the big story. Journalism in general gets a flunking grade for the presidential campaign. Trump enjoyed an open mic for more than a year and rather than vetting, the media scooped it up like it was brown heroin and consumed it 24/7 and then delivered it to the masses raw and uncooked.
5
The Times and other responsible media should supplement its revenue with a nonprofit "honor system" fundraising that has proved to be so successful for public radio. And the beauty is tht this source directly supports journalistic independence.
1
Yellow journalism has always been with us, but it is incredibly easy for any and every nut to publish their propaganda in the same media stand as the NYT.
Perhaps someone should publish a "veracity" rating of web sites and other news media that would be attached to appriate web sites.
Perhaps someone should publish a "veracity" rating of web sites and other news media that would be attached to appriate web sites.
1
There is no such thing as absolute "veracity", it always depends on your point of view.
"IF you get your news from this newspaper . . ., there’s probably a lot you don’t know."
The New York Times Editorial Board once demanded that Hillary Clinton release to the American voters the transcripts of the 2014 and 2015 speeches she made to Wall Street banks and other major business interests in exchange for $11 million. See "Mrs. Clinton, Show Voters Those Transcript" (Feb. 2016).
Hillary Clinton "stonewalled" the New York Times Editorial Board in response. WE still don't know why the Editorial Board did not put Mrs. Clinton's "feet to the fire."
The Times reported on Oct. 7 in a story titled "Leaked Speech Excerpts . . .":
“In lucrative paid speeches that Hillary Clinton delivered to elite financial firms but refused to disclose to the public, she displayed an easy comfort with titans of business, embraced unfettered international trade and praised a budget-balancing plan that would have required cuts to Social Security, according to documents posted online Friday by WikiLeaks.
The tone and language of the excerpts clash with the fiery liberal approach she used later in her bitter primary battle with Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont and could have undermined her candidacy had it become public.”
Obviously, the old adage "better late than never" does not apply in this instance.
The New York Times Editorial Board once demanded that Hillary Clinton release to the American voters the transcripts of the 2014 and 2015 speeches she made to Wall Street banks and other major business interests in exchange for $11 million. See "Mrs. Clinton, Show Voters Those Transcript" (Feb. 2016).
Hillary Clinton "stonewalled" the New York Times Editorial Board in response. WE still don't know why the Editorial Board did not put Mrs. Clinton's "feet to the fire."
The Times reported on Oct. 7 in a story titled "Leaked Speech Excerpts . . .":
“In lucrative paid speeches that Hillary Clinton delivered to elite financial firms but refused to disclose to the public, she displayed an easy comfort with titans of business, embraced unfettered international trade and praised a budget-balancing plan that would have required cuts to Social Security, according to documents posted online Friday by WikiLeaks.
The tone and language of the excerpts clash with the fiery liberal approach she used later in her bitter primary battle with Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont and could have undermined her candidacy had it become public.”
Obviously, the old adage "better late than never" does not apply in this instance.
1
There are web sites like Snopes and Factcheck that are available to anyone questioning information. Most papers actually ran fact check sections during the debates.
What we forget is the role belief has in determining what people use to make decisions. No amount of fact based proof and argument is going to convince an fundamentalist that evolution is a valid process. Belief is also the thing that drives consumers to buy products the don't really need.
This election was not about facts or truth. It was a long con pulled by a group of charlatans selling belief in a scheme to half of America.
What we forget is the role belief has in determining what people use to make decisions. No amount of fact based proof and argument is going to convince an fundamentalist that evolution is a valid process. Belief is also the thing that drives consumers to buy products the don't really need.
This election was not about facts or truth. It was a long con pulled by a group of charlatans selling belief in a scheme to half of America.
2
If folks don't care to find out for themselves whether or not something is a lie, then that's their fault.
I'm reminded of the commercial in which a girl meets a guy on the internet who claimed to be French and still believed to be so after apparently meeting him.
There is nothing one can do about folks who CHOOSE to be stupid..
I'm reminded of the commercial in which a girl meets a guy on the internet who claimed to be French and still believed to be so after apparently meeting him.
There is nothing one can do about folks who CHOOSE to be stupid..
Trump was successful in appearing to provide something that some working class voters were looking for. But I think the effect of the right wing media is often underestimated as to how it influences some in the working class. One way we can became more in touch with working class voters is to force ourselves to actually listen to right wing radio. We may be surprised at how it resembles the general rhetoric of the Republican debates and particularly Trump. Perhaps a solution is to bring back a form of what used to be called the "Fairness Doctrine" that was repealed by the Reagan era FCC in the late 80s. The thought behind it's repeal was that it would promote more vigorous debate but instead it seemed to create an explosion of a brand of commercial right wing demagoguery. Although generally Democrats tend to favor the Fairness Doctrine, if non-alt Republicans realize that Fox news and right wing radio are undermining American democracy as well as those conservatives own brand, there might be some bi-partisan support in congress. Restoration could enhance and reinvigorate the general quality journalism, particularly on the air waves.
2
As a kid growing up in the '50s, I laughed at the ridiculous tabloids at the grocery store check out counters. The National Inquirer, Star, and others I have long forgotten. The "photos' were so obviously doctored (a giant grasshopper eating a town; space aliens) that I assumed that no one could possibly believe the nonsense.
I am not laughing now. This isn't new. It has taken decades for us to reach this point. Roger Ailes, and others recognized the power of right-wing propaganda in the early '70s, and teamed up with Rupert Murdoch in the '90s to make fake "news" mainstream. It has been wildly successful. As many commenters have pointed out, arguing with true believers is futile. And we now know that true believers make up almost half of all voters in this country.
I hope it is not too late, but the mainstream media needs to start taking this threat to our future seriously. When one candidate lies continuously, the media needs to point out the truth. Four pinochios or pants on fire is not enough. Hillary's emails are not equivalent to all of Trump's inadequacies.
It may take decades to undo the damage, but we need to start now.
I am not laughing now. This isn't new. It has taken decades for us to reach this point. Roger Ailes, and others recognized the power of right-wing propaganda in the early '70s, and teamed up with Rupert Murdoch in the '90s to make fake "news" mainstream. It has been wildly successful. As many commenters have pointed out, arguing with true believers is futile. And we now know that true believers make up almost half of all voters in this country.
I hope it is not too late, but the mainstream media needs to start taking this threat to our future seriously. When one candidate lies continuously, the media needs to point out the truth. Four pinochios or pants on fire is not enough. Hillary's emails are not equivalent to all of Trump's inadequacies.
It may take decades to undo the damage, but we need to start now.
2
The problem is not only the Alt-Right & the Tin Foil Hat crowd. Plenty of traditional media have some explaining to do.
Sure there is a lot of nonsense floating around online, on broadcast and in print. Tabloids trumpet Hillary is going to jail, radio has whole networks of NeoCon nonsense and the internet hosts plenty of CrayCray. But print, broadcast & online can also take one to serious journalism and prime sources. I spend more than a little effort trying to get well reported, balanced & fact based news and opinion and it is far harder than it should be.
The truth is that we have never been told the unvarnished truth by any media. Sins of both omission and commission. The New York Times was quite heavy handed on both Editorial & News in both their push of Hillary Clinton and dismissal of the Sanders campaign. Massive rallies as big as any Trump hosted by Senator Sanders were routinely ignored, dismissed or damned with faint praise. It was not appreciated.
Opinion needs a broader group of writers. Voices outside DC and NYC are not well represented.
I understand the ground is shifting beneath the feet of the NYT company, but giving away content on Facebook undermine the paper. I would prefer the NYT increase the price of instead of more infotainment, pandering to Facebook or further eviscerating International coverage. The Financial Times model may be better. Surely enough people in this big country exist to support a quality news service.
Sure there is a lot of nonsense floating around online, on broadcast and in print. Tabloids trumpet Hillary is going to jail, radio has whole networks of NeoCon nonsense and the internet hosts plenty of CrayCray. But print, broadcast & online can also take one to serious journalism and prime sources. I spend more than a little effort trying to get well reported, balanced & fact based news and opinion and it is far harder than it should be.
The truth is that we have never been told the unvarnished truth by any media. Sins of both omission and commission. The New York Times was quite heavy handed on both Editorial & News in both their push of Hillary Clinton and dismissal of the Sanders campaign. Massive rallies as big as any Trump hosted by Senator Sanders were routinely ignored, dismissed or damned with faint praise. It was not appreciated.
Opinion needs a broader group of writers. Voices outside DC and NYC are not well represented.
I understand the ground is shifting beneath the feet of the NYT company, but giving away content on Facebook undermine the paper. I would prefer the NYT increase the price of instead of more infotainment, pandering to Facebook or further eviscerating International coverage. The Financial Times model may be better. Surely enough people in this big country exist to support a quality news service.
3
The problem with fake news is that they are inherently more varied and thus more interesting/entertaining than real news. It's easy to smear the main stream media with a conspiracy meme since they will report more or less the same story, simply because it is true. After you have reported that Obama was born in the USA, what else is there to say, really? If you want to spread falsehoods you can invent new twists to the plot and invent additional stories about the 'lying' main stream media to flesh them out and then find new fake evidence.
The last major use of this technique perpetrated by the government was the WMD scare about Iraq, which worked like a charm. It is very hard to prove the non-existence of things, so the fakers will usually sit at the longer end of the stick, unless our society makes a concerted effort at news vetting (as suggested by Mr. Kristof) and especially improves its educational system to enable students to discern likely truths from obvious fakes.
Better control of Facebook and similar organizations would also help. There have been several instances, for example in Germany, where hate messages that were actually illegal were not taken down in spite of government requests while messages that supposedly violated someone's copyright disappeared within hours. (This is real new gleaned from reputable news media websites.)
The last major use of this technique perpetrated by the government was the WMD scare about Iraq, which worked like a charm. It is very hard to prove the non-existence of things, so the fakers will usually sit at the longer end of the stick, unless our society makes a concerted effort at news vetting (as suggested by Mr. Kristof) and especially improves its educational system to enable students to discern likely truths from obvious fakes.
Better control of Facebook and similar organizations would also help. There have been several instances, for example in Germany, where hate messages that were actually illegal were not taken down in spite of government requests while messages that supposedly violated someone's copyright disappeared within hours. (This is real new gleaned from reputable news media websites.)
1
You're like the Wizard in the Wizard of Oz. "Pay no attention to that man hiding behind that curtain!"
So Nicholas Kristof bears no culpability whatsoever for his role in the blatant bias of the press. It's also obvious with today's article that you have no intention in slowing your bias down either. Your disdainfully mocking and arrogant tone in today's article does nothing to coverup the seething and simmering anger which bubbles up through every other word.
I waited patiently for Election Day to come. Hope springs eternal.
My vote mattered. It's all that mattered. You might want to take note.
So Nicholas Kristof bears no culpability whatsoever for his role in the blatant bias of the press. It's also obvious with today's article that you have no intention in slowing your bias down either. Your disdainfully mocking and arrogant tone in today's article does nothing to coverup the seething and simmering anger which bubbles up through every other word.
I waited patiently for Election Day to come. Hope springs eternal.
My vote mattered. It's all that mattered. You might want to take note.
Beth, does Truth have a bias? Kristof's opinion is that lies, the "fake news" promotes racism and undermines democracy. Do you agree or disagree with this. I am confident that many people voted for Trump yet did not buy into all the lies he told. They simply wanted change after 8 years of a Democratic president. You may be one of those people. But millions voted for him because of what they believed about Clinton from reading the fake news sites. Those who supported Trump have put themselves in the company of the "deplorables," like it or not.
1
When Trump screws this country up, who's fault will it be? Trump's or the Republicans who voted for him? Or, because of social media, it will somehow be the Democrats? My bet is the latter. All of Mr. I am going to save you, Trump's short fallings will be tagged to Obama and the Democrats.
We watched G. W. Bush take us to the edge of an economic abyss, and escape responsibility by leaving office. Whereas, the blame by many of Republicans went to Clinton.
Now we have let these same money grabbing conmen take full control. We let Reagan con us with "balancing the Budget" only to leave us legitimizing debt. We let G.W. Bush con us into believing the US should not be in the "business of nation building". The result was more voodoo economics, unpaid wars and economic collapse that nearly paralyzed the world. Better hang on to your wallet.
We watched G. W. Bush take us to the edge of an economic abyss, and escape responsibility by leaving office. Whereas, the blame by many of Republicans went to Clinton.
Now we have let these same money grabbing conmen take full control. We let Reagan con us with "balancing the Budget" only to leave us legitimizing debt. We let G.W. Bush con us into believing the US should not be in the "business of nation building". The result was more voodoo economics, unpaid wars and economic collapse that nearly paralyzed the world. Better hang on to your wallet.
Obviously the so-called "low information voter" is unlikely to seek out information. Mainstream news sources appeal to those who are broadly curious. Do we attract the uncurious by hitting harder on the lies they gravitate to? Doubtful.
Time to dust off this H.L. Mencken quote:
Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance.
Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance.
1
Seems to me if the NYT and WaPo and other organizations become more objective and just report the news, not slant it toward the left, some of these sites would go out of business. When the mainstream media loses the public trust, other lies become believable. Look in the mirror, you caused it and you can fix it.
4
Kristof is published on the NY Times Opinion Page. I don't expect him to report news objectively. Nor should you. I want his opinion. For the news I go to the front page.
Nicholas: Here you are spot on: "...we in the mainstream media are out of touch with working-class America…unemployed steel workers." BUT, what are you willing to do about it? Stop foreign junkets to highlight poverty in Africa, Asia, etc.? How about poverty in America?
Will you strongly attack and condemn our terrible wealth inequality in strong terms? You're risking oligarchic attacks.
Will you expose the 'carried interest' sham and the congress people that support it, including many bought Democrats?
How about supporting the designing and proposing of a real healthcare system that leaves no one behind? You'll be making the drug cartels and much of the medical establishment angry.
When will you call out the bad behavior of the Black male where 73% of Black babies are born to single women? That's poverty from the start. No chance.
Will you call out the banks that are culpable for the last crash but got an 800 billion dollar bail out while 7 MILLION people lost their home? Nobody gave them a bailout or a hand up. They are still suffering. I know, because it is in my own extended family.
Will you excoriate companies that move manufacturing out of the US (Ford) while Subaru moves it in (Indiana--1400 jobs)? You'll make powerful interests mad and they tend to get even.
I received the letter from Sulzberger, claiming the NYT had balanced coverage on this past election. I almost threw up.
Anyway, I will be reading your columns. Watching. Waiting.
Will you strongly attack and condemn our terrible wealth inequality in strong terms? You're risking oligarchic attacks.
Will you expose the 'carried interest' sham and the congress people that support it, including many bought Democrats?
How about supporting the designing and proposing of a real healthcare system that leaves no one behind? You'll be making the drug cartels and much of the medical establishment angry.
When will you call out the bad behavior of the Black male where 73% of Black babies are born to single women? That's poverty from the start. No chance.
Will you call out the banks that are culpable for the last crash but got an 800 billion dollar bail out while 7 MILLION people lost their home? Nobody gave them a bailout or a hand up. They are still suffering. I know, because it is in my own extended family.
Will you excoriate companies that move manufacturing out of the US (Ford) while Subaru moves it in (Indiana--1400 jobs)? You'll make powerful interests mad and they tend to get even.
I received the letter from Sulzberger, claiming the NYT had balanced coverage on this past election. I almost threw up.
Anyway, I will be reading your columns. Watching. Waiting.
1
In this world of free markets and the almighty dollar the main stream media did the American thing--they made a lot of money on the Donald and sold their soul. All you have to do for penance is to tell the Big Truth loudly, often and in all corners of the nation. The Big Truth is that the GOP starts endless wars, gives license to their benefactors, tax breaks to the rich, robs the middle class, lies about their opposition, are sexual predators, and list goes on.
Don't over-analyse the reason you got it wrong. Set the record straight. Be bold. Tell the truth for a change. Be moral. Speak truth to power. I suspect you are too worried about loosing a few shekels of silver to do the just thing.
You have a republic if you can keep it. Was it Jefferson who said a little blood needed to spilled every few generations to maintain freedom?
Don't over-analyse the reason you got it wrong. Set the record straight. Be bold. Tell the truth for a change. Be moral. Speak truth to power. I suspect you are too worried about loosing a few shekels of silver to do the just thing.
You have a republic if you can keep it. Was it Jefferson who said a little blood needed to spilled every few generations to maintain freedom?
1
Donald Trump expertly played the fear card; convincing Americans everything was going to pieces and only he could put them back together again. Where was the media in confronting his lies? We are at the lowest crime statistics in decades yet you wouldn't believe it according to Trumps rantings. Where was the media to report the truth? The media was more concerned about viewership than the truth. Where are Mr Trumps tax returns? Guess the press gave him a bye on those as well. That "man" was given a free pass by the media to say the kind of things that would have disqualified any other candidate. Remember Howard Deans yell with the microphone on in 2004? That 'noise' ended his run for the presidency, but Donald Trump gets away with muslim bashing, racism, lewd comments concerning his opponents, trash talking women, talking being able to kill someone on 5th Ave and get away with it, calling Hilary crooked? Who is the crooked one? Discriminating against blacks in housing, not paying subcontractors, claiming other peoples losses on his tax returns? Hilary is a saint compared to the crook you've given the keys to the White House to. GW is a mensa compared to this neanderthal (apologies to anyone with neanderthal genes).
1
If we have the lowest crime rates in decades....why is the left hysterically screaming for gun control laws?
And BTW: there is no law requiring that candidates reveal their tax returns. Now that Trump has gotten away with not showing his....I'd expect no future candidates will do so either.
And BTW: there is no law requiring that candidates reveal their tax returns. Now that Trump has gotten away with not showing his....I'd expect no future candidates will do so either.
I wondered from day 1 why the media allowed themselves to be penned and bullied by Donald Trump. He whipped his followers into a foaming frenzy against the "Main Stream Media", and yet the media created Trump. The more he hurled insults in the media's direction, causing some reporters to need a police escort to their news vans, I wondered why they bothered to cover Trump at all. If just once they had walked out en mass and refused to cover him due to security issues, I think they would have vindicated themselves. Instead........they took the abuse and came back for more. Their bosses didn't care if their reporters and technicians were beaten and possibly killed by the Trump mob, and they share in the blame for the outcome of this election.
1
Sad but predictable that everyone who served as a worshipful Clinton surrogate during the campaign is now lashing out at everyone and everything except their Earth Mother for an excuse. Frank Bruni issued a mild but surprising mea culpa today but I have yet to hear any of the rest of the NYT cheerleading squad admit they backed the wrong horse. Like ginning up the Iraq War, I guess they'll hope everyone will eventually forget.
2
You and your cogworkers have been producing a lot of untruthful propaganda too. I can't believe that the New York Times is still considered a "paper of record" . Because it is no longer a paper which attempts to deliver unbiased news.
4
Hang on Nick, as Alt Right Breitbart News Steve Bannon and its' benefactor the Mercer family now have their own seats in the Oval Office and no one in the main stream media seems to be interested.
Well , American democracy may be in ruins, but at least guys in Macedonia are profiting.
Secondly, the Alt-Right 'media' doesn't just provide additional fabricated or biased information to the online news buffet. Frequently they break stories, stories a deeply suspicious public are most interested in, and feel MSM are trying to hide from them. That Breitbart broke the Cologne mass migrant sexual assault story is an indictment of all of MSM, this publication included. What do you think happens to a reader who finds, for days, the only source on one of the biggest stories of the year is a small online publication? They trust it from then on, no matter what slop it dishes up. And once that trust is established it's game over for MSM. Certainly, it's not true to think we are at the point yet where this group controls the narrative at large. But in 10 years, with MSM publications driven by ideological and commercial biases of their own it's a distinct possibility.
2
"If you expect a nation to be ignorant and free , you expect what never was and can never be."
--Thomas Jefferson
America is in trouble.
Germany 1933, redux.
--Thomas Jefferson
America is in trouble.
Germany 1933, redux.
1
Nicholas, I hate to say it but if you can't lick'm, join'm. So, I've taken on a pseudonym to hide my identity and now respond to these vicious websites all the far right trolls with the same vitriolic diatribes that irritated me to no end. And you know what, they don't know how to respond. Especially when there is Truth behind us. It is time to fight fire with fire, stand-up to prejudice and lies and destroy Propaganda before it destroys us.
1
Sadly true, but as a Times reader I am barely faring better. Instead of blacks, Muslims and Latinos, the NYT serves up a stew that labels roughly half the American population sexists, racists and bigots, joined by a few uneducated losers of globalization. Full of fervor Clinton is endorsed over and over,while poor Bernie Sanders, who's fault was his intention to turn the US more into a Scandinavian direction, was labeled an unrealistic dreamer. So I venture to state that the readership of alt-right pamphlets and the NYT rarely overlaps, and that a far more useful way to spend their journalistic time would be to investigate and distance themselves from the bias and blatant partisanship that brought us Hillary as a candidate and the utter, complete surprise of a President Trump.
The majority of the American electorate needs some basic education in primary sourcing, data and statistics, research funding and journalistic practices (including citing unbiased sources or giving weigh to different points of views). That NYTimes readers, even in these comments, cannot differentiate between straight-up news articles and editorial opinion is astounding. The legitimate practice, ethics and standards of the Fourth Estate, and its crucial role in our democracy, should be standard education starting in third grade.
2
"entrepreneurs originally came up with leftist websites targeting Bernie Sanders supporters but didn’t find much reader interest..." That's because progressives are more interested in facts, and have an education that lets them see through the nonsense.
"When Americans come to believe lies such as that the pope endorsed Trump, or that Barack and Michelle Obama unendorsed Clinton, those are assaults on our political system" Ya think? How about the lies that Obama was born in Kenya or that the Clinton Foundation was anything but a top rated charity that never put a penny in Hillary's pockets? Those unfounded accusations were much more insidious, and you, the media, just repeated them over and over as if they were valid criticisms from a loyal opposition.
If you stopped with all this personal gossip and inuendo, and simply asked what those Rust Belt voters were concerned about, and reported what the candidates had to say and do about it, those voters would hear it eventually. But you ran policy-free, 24-hour Trump live coverage because it got you clicks and ratings. Of course it got you "President Trump"... and a global climate holocaust, among others.
"When Americans come to believe lies such as that the pope endorsed Trump, or that Barack and Michelle Obama unendorsed Clinton, those are assaults on our political system" Ya think? How about the lies that Obama was born in Kenya or that the Clinton Foundation was anything but a top rated charity that never put a penny in Hillary's pockets? Those unfounded accusations were much more insidious, and you, the media, just repeated them over and over as if they were valid criticisms from a loyal opposition.
If you stopped with all this personal gossip and inuendo, and simply asked what those Rust Belt voters were concerned about, and reported what the candidates had to say and do about it, those voters would hear it eventually. But you ran policy-free, 24-hour Trump live coverage because it got you clicks and ratings. Of course it got you "President Trump"... and a global climate holocaust, among others.
3
Excellent post! Astute observation! There was never any need to repeat the lies in the stories. Actually, I'm certain there were more stories about the Trumpet than about Clinton. In every story, the lies Trumpet was spreading about Clinton actually made her look bad, rather than show Trump's evil intent to destroy her. The thinking American was confused by the so-called "neutral reporting" that emphasized the lies blared by the Trumpet.
An article in the NYT today, concerning the problem with fake news on Facebook, says that 50% of Americans get their news from Facebook. What? How are we to save our democracy when so many Americans don't know or care that there is a difference between reputable news outlets and propaganda machines. I know some "low-information" voters who would never read the NYT, or other mainstream outlets. I sometimes suggest that they commit to watching the PBS NewsHour, a very unbiased and serious news source, every night for one month, and then see how much more informed they are at the end of that period. Oh, the looks of horror! No, they will stay with their absurd, disreputable news outlets. I can only believe that some people really have no interest in knowing the truth. I fear that Trump with and his know-nothings in power, there will be fresh assaults on PBS and NPR. Let us not forget the attempts to undermine those organizations during the Bush Administration. If there is one thing Republicans can't tolerate, it's truth-tellers.
The media's false equivalency of the flaws of Trump and Clinton was absolutely astounding and a major factor in fueling the fire among Trump's gullible supporters. If you think the adjective "gullible" is another example of the intellectual elite putting down the blue-collar working men and, incredibly, women who ignored Trump's blatant sexism, check back in a year and see how many of those manufacturing and coal-mining jobs have returned to the U.S., how many Trump supporters no longer have health insurance, and how much their incomes have risen vis a vis the top 1 percent.
I can't wait for President Trump to take the helm. Time to undo the damage from the last 30 years.
1
Please stop with the one-sided bias. Dont you get it? the lies are everywhere. People like me are tired of this, hence your readership is down. To close your eyes to one party's lies and blab on about the other party is totally discrediting what you write.
2
Hate media took off after Reagan, without proper opposition from democrats, eliminated the "Fairness Doctrine" It should be brought back and enforced with charlatans being prosecuted for libel.
1
And let's not forget the Tump himself has praised the National Enquirer, perhaps the leading disseminator of misinformation.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought U.S. citizenship conferred automatic citizenship to a woman's child no matter where she gave birth. Obama's mother was an American citizen. Her child would be American wherever he was born. If that is indeed the case, the "birther" issue was wrong from day one.
I you don't think that the NY Times is part of the pattern of false news, then you have not been reading Maureen Dowd's columns about Hillary and President Obama.
1
Watch 15 minutes of Hannity and O'Reilly and find yourself in an alternative universe. O'Reilly isn't content to spin the present; he re-writes history. I understand that freedom of the press encouraged everyone to express themselves with the idea that good ideas would drive out bad. What we need is huge private investment in liberal media to balance out the junk on the right. What if NBC decides to cut MSNBC?
1
Please. There are just as many fake stories about Trump out there.
Of course, who cares when folks like the NYT have been weaving a false narrative for years.
Of course, who cares when folks like the NYT have been weaving a false narrative for years.
2
What fake stories about Trump?
1
rump was successful in appearing to provide something that some working class voters were looking for. But I think the effect of the right wing media is often underestimated as to how it influences some in the working class. One way we can became more in touch with working class voters is to force ourselves to actually listen to right wing radio. We may be surprised at how it resembles the general rhetoric of the Republican debates and particularly Trump. Perhaps a solution is to bring back a form of what used to be called the "Fairness Doctrine" that was repealed by the Reagan era FCC in the late 80s. The thought behind it's repeal was that it would promote more vigorous debate but instead it seemed to create an explosion of a brand of commercial right wing demagoguery. Although generally Democrats tend to favor the Fairness Doctrine, if non-alt Republicans realize that Fox news and right wing radio are undermining American democracy as well as those conservatives own brand, there might be some bi-partisan support in congress. Restoration could enhance and reinvigorate the general quality journalism, particularly on the air waves.
1
I'm not convinced that the alt-right/fake news complex had a significant effect on the election or the hearts and minds (using those terms loosely) on Trump voters.
These sites are obviously despicable and cater to ignorance, but no more so than Fox News does.
If we look at Fox News as the "Main Course", these other sites can be viewed as the "dessert cart" where they can indulge in their preferred conspiracy fetishes.
Somebody that spends time in those sites has already had their brain hijacked by Fox.
These sites are obviously despicable and cater to ignorance, but no more so than Fox News does.
If we look at Fox News as the "Main Course", these other sites can be viewed as the "dessert cart" where they can indulge in their preferred conspiracy fetishes.
Somebody that spends time in those sites has already had their brain hijacked by Fox.
1
You have to join all these alt-truth fora in organized teams and CALMLY and with respect to the opponents correct the lies there. "Respect" part is hard. Do not fight - people of the alt-truth movement enjoy the fight, this is why they are there. Also, many "people" you will be interacting with are AI bots or hired (paid for spewing filth) posters.
The experience is as pleasant as swimming in a cesspool. But it works to some extent (here in Poland we have this problem for a while). So far we did not find anything better.
The experience is as pleasant as swimming in a cesspool. But it works to some extent (here in Poland we have this problem for a while). So far we did not find anything better.
1
Well it all goes back to the de-regulation old Ronnie did to protections as to fairness of the news, the move of health insurance from non-profits to the hands of the oligarchs, the insane Citizens United supported by the righteous Scalia, the GOP news network of lies called fox news, and the take down of voting rights and human rights by the self-righteous evangelicals. With the GOP infesting all three branches of govt., democracy will be losing ground faster. There will be a continuation of defunding federal agencies and giving more choices to states, to people like Abbot, Kacich, and the abominable Snyder, "one tough nerd" and one big liar. People need to read, broadcast and internet news is corporate news and shorten attention spans. Read news magazines and newspapers from outside this country to get a better perspective. The cover of The Economist lead was "Liberty has moved north". What a disgrace for us, liberty here is being undone, gerrymandering, voting rights act diminished, purposely obstructing poor and blacks from voting with ridiculous requirements. And the vicious lie that Black Lives Matter is anti police. They are not. They are anti-police brutality and that's been going on for decades. You should know that. If you don't know, why don't you know it? Because you're not reading history and factual news sources but you'll get all hyped up when some snotty girl who was never accepted to law school brings a law suit because a black student got in.
1
The 'left' is now in a huge black hole some of which is our own doing. We have no formal way to check the GOP. They own all 3 branches, POTUS, The Justice Dept. and the FBI is in Giuliani's pocket. The media is falling over each other in their rush to normalize Trump.
The only option for the 'left' is to get down and dirty just like everyone else and use the media ESP social media to get it out there. Wr have to become twitter trolls pointing out 'you just got conned by the Don' overtime Trump reneges on one of his promises. We have to write our own pieces showing how the new Trump Inc. blind trust just profited from a decision made by Daddy President. Start our own website. Just start using social media for our benefit instead of always complaining about it.
Oh and yes we should find us a couple good hackers and go to town. I know nothing, I'm just saying...., I heard people say... Just like the GOP we deny, deny, deny but for god's sake it's time we got in fight with some muscle.
The only option for the 'left' is to get down and dirty just like everyone else and use the media ESP social media to get it out there. Wr have to become twitter trolls pointing out 'you just got conned by the Don' overtime Trump reneges on one of his promises. We have to write our own pieces showing how the new Trump Inc. blind trust just profited from a decision made by Daddy President. Start our own website. Just start using social media for our benefit instead of always complaining about it.
Oh and yes we should find us a couple good hackers and go to town. I know nothing, I'm just saying...., I heard people say... Just like the GOP we deny, deny, deny but for god's sake it's time we got in fight with some muscle.
1
There is much condemnation here of the supposedly thoughtless or stupid people who voted for Trump, and concern about "what the country is coming too," et cetera. All of this presumes that we had a fair election. In fact, both Russia and Israel's right-wing likud party were deeply involved in this election, and probably other foreign powers were involved as well. And the FBI tipping the scale against Hillary with the Weiner email announcement. And astronomical amounts of dark money representing unknown special interests, domestic and foreign. And yet Hillary still won the popular vote.
So maybe the country isn't doing so badly. This was an unfair election. Maybe we should be talking about how to keep foreign governments, dark money, and special interests out of our election next time.
So maybe the country isn't doing so badly. This was an unfair election. Maybe we should be talking about how to keep foreign governments, dark money, and special interests out of our election next time.
1
Even when knowing something (regardless of fact or fiction), we don't always remember where we obtained the knowledge. For example, we all know that Washington DC is the capital of the United States. But do you recall where you learned this fact (school, parents, television, book)? Probably not. Therefore, you can understand why fake news persists and spreads. A legitimate news story, from the Washington Post, for example, is blended with fake news from a conspiracy website on an individual Facebook feed. A month later, that individual may spread the fake "news" to a friend, but "Gosh, I don't recall where I read it..."
To quote Zeynep Tufekci, associate professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill on NPR's Weekend Edition Saturday (10/22/16): "Right now, there is too much information. In the 21st century, censorship doesn't work by withholding information. Censorship now works by flooding with information, by causing distraction, by causing confusion, by creating doubts and just this question mark and shadow so that you really can't figure out what's going on".
To quote Zeynep Tufekci, associate professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill on NPR's Weekend Edition Saturday (10/22/16): "Right now, there is too much information. In the 21st century, censorship doesn't work by withholding information. Censorship now works by flooding with information, by causing distraction, by causing confusion, by creating doubts and just this question mark and shadow so that you really can't figure out what's going on".
Sorry, I blame CNN for promoting Trump 24/7 from the beginning of the campaign.
The guy got free airtime and still complained, talked on the phone with Wolf and still complained they favored Hillary. He used the media, and everyone fell for it, for high ratings. Hope someone learned something from this race.
The guy got free airtime and still complained, talked on the phone with Wolf and still complained they favored Hillary. He used the media, and everyone fell for it, for high ratings. Hope someone learned something from this race.
1
The internet lies are bad enough.
But - "real" journalism, both print and broadcast, failed this election miserably.
Look how much free coverage Trump got, how little scrutiny - my heavens. SNL got it better. Trump plays footsies with Putin, kisses up to the KKK, and his campaign appears to have been in cahoots with no less than the FBI to sink Hillary's campaign - and what was the biggest topic? EMAILS.
Emails. My god.
But - "real" journalism, both print and broadcast, failed this election miserably.
Look how much free coverage Trump got, how little scrutiny - my heavens. SNL got it better. Trump plays footsies with Putin, kisses up to the KKK, and his campaign appears to have been in cahoots with no less than the FBI to sink Hillary's campaign - and what was the biggest topic? EMAILS.
Emails. My god.
2
Thanks for another worthless off base read from the NY Times. Why don't you write something that enlightens and inspires people instead of some illegible non sense and start reporting facts. The media is really in part to blame for all of the chaos that has been created in this country. You can save you opinions for your coffee break room. To say that you have done the public a disfavor is an understatement.
1
In the market place of ideas, the law of supply and demand will always provide lies for those stupid enough to believe them. The supply of simpletons and fools will ensure their demand for mendacious swill is met.
Secondly, the Alt-Right 'media' doesn't just provide additional fabricated or biased information to the online news buffet. Frequently they break stories, stories a deeply suspicious public are most interested in, and feel MSM are trying to hide from them. That Breitbart broke the Cologne mass migrant sexual assault story is an indictment of all of MSM, this publication included. What do you think happens to a reader who finds, for days, the only source on one of the biggest stories of the year is a small online publication? They trust it from then on, no matter what slop it dishes up. And once that trust is established it's game over for MSM. Certainly, it's not true to think we are at the point yet where this group controls the narrative at large. But in 10 years, with MSM publications driven by ideological and commercial biases of their own it's a distinct possibility.
1
"We in the mainstream media are out of touch with working-class America". Do ya THINK??? Kristof, you have written on many important events globally but you like so many others in powerful journalistic positions have ignored what has been going on with largely north east and midwestern middle class and working class workers. Their jobs were exported and corporate America and our esteemed politicians did not pay attention. You left them high and dry and they sent a huge middle finger back. The punishment is groper in chief. God help us all!!
PS. In a number of comments over the past few years, I repeatedly asked you to focus on the problems here at home. I saw it first hand and no one in positions of influence gave a rip. Just say'n.
PS. In a number of comments over the past few years, I repeatedly asked you to focus on the problems here at home. I saw it first hand and no one in positions of influence gave a rip. Just say'n.
1
Point of fact that doesn't change your message but is germaine to make a note of is that far more manufacturing jobs over the last 10 years have been lost to automation than outsourcing.
It's interesting that in 2007, Republicans sent out hate mail about Obama to it's bible best base saying he was not only Muslim but gay. I read the propaganda in disbelief. These lies were coming from the Republican Party stamp & sealed here in the good ole USA....not from Eastern EU. the media has discredited themselves by becoming ambulance chasers & groveling for the buck. Sensationalism if not present is created even in weather. Every news media in US gave Trump free coverage for his outrageous behavior, his racism, his hate induced speeches.
2
What credibility do you suppose you'll have claiming protections under the First Amendment when this new president comes after you? Which he will.
You advocated aggressively on behalf of his opponent, a woman who was so thoroughly discredited and widely disliked. And you tried to shove down the throats of an electorate you considered ignorant, racist, and stupid.
What support do you suppose they'll offer you when you need it - which you will?
What right do you have to claim protection under the First Amendment, when you abuse that privilege to try to fix presidential elections on behalf of your favoured candidate?
You abdicated your role as professional journalists, and with that you've abdicated your right to any constitutional protections. Because you're not journalists any longer, your hacks, and everyone knows it. So don't expect anybody to stand up and fight your corner, especially people you've pubicly accuse of being dumb, ignorant and racist.
It's game over, and it's your fault.
You advocated aggressively on behalf of his opponent, a woman who was so thoroughly discredited and widely disliked. And you tried to shove down the throats of an electorate you considered ignorant, racist, and stupid.
What support do you suppose they'll offer you when you need it - which you will?
What right do you have to claim protection under the First Amendment, when you abuse that privilege to try to fix presidential elections on behalf of your favoured candidate?
You abdicated your role as professional journalists, and with that you've abdicated your right to any constitutional protections. Because you're not journalists any longer, your hacks, and everyone knows it. So don't expect anybody to stand up and fight your corner, especially people you've pubicly accuse of being dumb, ignorant and racist.
It's game over, and it's your fault.
1
You finally figured this out, huh? A bit late. We've been trying to tell you this for a year but the NYT had its head in the elitist sand.
1
Before the advent of internet, there were libraries where you could enter and acquaint yourself with the world that surrounds you through books, newspapers and magazines or you could just walk past the library and stop at a news stand and buy the National Inquirer to inform yourself about the world that surrounds you. Internet replaced, to a great extent, both the library and the news stand but it cannot tell you to visit websites whose information has been vetted rather than websites that verge on dementia. It is your choice.
47
I hope you meant a proper newspaper such as the Washington Post or The NY Times and not the National Enquirer!
1
When we criticize these alt-right statements or their sources, the followers of the ultra right criticize papers like the NYTimes as if there were an equivalency. Part of the alt-right strategy is to demonize the legitimate news sources in order to counter their influence and, sadly, many people do not know how to read with a critical eye.
What have you the media done? Destroyed all honesty and helped elect the Liar-in-Chief! Read on.
An interesting article on how the media made Trump's lies about Hillary into truths. Really disgusted.
http://www.newsweek.com/neil-buchanan-cruel-crooked-caricature-doomed-cl...
An interesting article on how the media made Trump's lies about Hillary into truths. Really disgusted.
http://www.newsweek.com/neil-buchanan-cruel-crooked-caricature-doomed-cl...
The technological revolution has made more information available to more people instantaneously. Unfortunately this instant communication through cell phones and other devices has become the only source of information for many people. Try buying a map or asking for directions. People are lost without their devices. The problem is that critical thinking is necessary to assess the value of information and critical thinking is being lost as fast as technology is advancing. This is not good because the fake world created by technology seems to bring out the most base reptilian instincts of humans. Yes, the NY Times and other mainstream news organizations need to find a way to reach more people, but critical thinking when it comes to information is essential. Technology and the mass of information it engenders should be viewed as a tool to enhance human dignity, not a master to worship.
3
The point is not that those sites exist; the point is that we have such an under-educated populace that they are believed. Just look at the recent graphic on the NYT showing education levels by state. If superimposed on a red state/blue map the under-educated states align nearly identically with the red states.
The success of a participatory democracy is premised on an informed electorate. While one certainly doesn't need an advanced degree to be informed, everyone benefits from the training in critical thinking that higher education imparts. That critical thinking is the difference between what makes some of us scoff at the patently ridiculous nonsense put out by the alt-right press and is swallowed whole by others.
How can a democratic system of government exist when one half of the electorate is incapable of differentiating fact from fiction. When one half of the electorate thinks that if you believe some thing it becomes a "fact." Indeed, you think that your belief makes it true.
And yes, if this sounds like religion, it is because the same intellectual thought process is at play.
That said, there is a lot positive to be said for the common wisdom, in its saner form. But does anyone any longer believe that the creation of a permanent governing elite far, far removed from the governed is able or willing to hear that wisdom. Of course not. They live in a different world and speak a different language.
When truth has no currency the end is nigh.
The success of a participatory democracy is premised on an informed electorate. While one certainly doesn't need an advanced degree to be informed, everyone benefits from the training in critical thinking that higher education imparts. That critical thinking is the difference between what makes some of us scoff at the patently ridiculous nonsense put out by the alt-right press and is swallowed whole by others.
How can a democratic system of government exist when one half of the electorate is incapable of differentiating fact from fiction. When one half of the electorate thinks that if you believe some thing it becomes a "fact." Indeed, you think that your belief makes it true.
And yes, if this sounds like religion, it is because the same intellectual thought process is at play.
That said, there is a lot positive to be said for the common wisdom, in its saner form. But does anyone any longer believe that the creation of a permanent governing elite far, far removed from the governed is able or willing to hear that wisdom. Of course not. They live in a different world and speak a different language.
When truth has no currency the end is nigh.
1
Even those of us who voted Trump are nervous about what his administration will bring 99 percent of us just want to earn a living, raise our families and have no animosity towards people who may appear different from us because we realize that they want the same things. It's time to wait and see. It's time to hope for the best. It's time to get on with it.
Mr. Kristof -
Those of us who remember Cronkite, the Alsops, Roger Mudd, Huntley and Brinkley, and Ben Bradlee knew years ago that the media we now have available to us is ridiculous by comparison.
We also know that America is full of very peculiar people who yearn for a simple narrative, even if they know it is fake. For proof, just go to any arena that hosts a WWE card.
It will be fun to see what the alt-right comes up with about Trump if he actually tries to keep his campaign promises, most of which run counter to current GOP orthodoxy (When, for example, did the GOP care about creating good-paying jobs for ordinary people?).
I'm going to become more politically involved, but I am also going to spend some time just sitting back and enjoying what promises to be a very strange show.
Those of us who remember Cronkite, the Alsops, Roger Mudd, Huntley and Brinkley, and Ben Bradlee knew years ago that the media we now have available to us is ridiculous by comparison.
We also know that America is full of very peculiar people who yearn for a simple narrative, even if they know it is fake. For proof, just go to any arena that hosts a WWE card.
It will be fun to see what the alt-right comes up with about Trump if he actually tries to keep his campaign promises, most of which run counter to current GOP orthodoxy (When, for example, did the GOP care about creating good-paying jobs for ordinary people?).
I'm going to become more politically involved, but I am also going to spend some time just sitting back and enjoying what promises to be a very strange show.
1
As a mea culpa for blatant bias that misled your readers throughout the latest presidential election, this column is a fail.
Not a good idea to follow up a fail on the election a fail on the mea culpa that presumably was intended to apologise for the original fail.
No, it's not okay say, yes we were bad, but they were worse.
The entire publication is failing. Soon you won't have the income or the lifestyle to support your metropolitan pretensions, with the result you'll finally understand on a personal level what this election was all about.
But by then it'll be too late.
Not a good idea to follow up a fail on the election a fail on the mea culpa that presumably was intended to apologise for the original fail.
No, it's not okay say, yes we were bad, but they were worse.
The entire publication is failing. Soon you won't have the income or the lifestyle to support your metropolitan pretensions, with the result you'll finally understand on a personal level what this election was all about.
But by then it'll be too late.
1
"The venom directed at minorities is staggering: Alt-right kooks suggest that Obama is literally the devil and is trying to destroy humanity through vaccines."
Throughout this election cycle I have wondered who the devil the Anti-Christ might actually be.
Alt-right sites prey on the weakness of those who, within the context of American Christian patriarchal fundamentalism, constitute the foremost among the Elect.
Since many fundamentalist Christians hold that the End Times are imminent, I am surprised that not a single fundamentalist Evangelical preacher has proclaimed that Trump is the Anti-Christ--the one foretold in the Book of Revelations. This Anti-Christ is destined to lead many a believer astray.
Trump is so deceptive that he has convinced even Dr. James Dobson to accept him as a "baby Christian". The Rev. Billy Graham, Jr., has also been seduced by Trump and enlisted in his Legion.
How could Dr. Dobson and Rev. Graham, purported men of the Book, fail to see what Trump really and truly is?
Is Donald Trump the Anti-Christ who, like Milton's Satan, is unique unto his prideful and narcissistic self, and defies all customary human categorizations?
Even secular fact-checkers recognize that Trump is the Prince of Lies!
If a non-fundamentalist such as myself can read all of these signs and portents, why does what's so obvious elude the truly religious among us?
Or are Dobson and Graham Christianists (rhymes with Islamists)?
Just asking.
Throughout this election cycle I have wondered who the devil the Anti-Christ might actually be.
Alt-right sites prey on the weakness of those who, within the context of American Christian patriarchal fundamentalism, constitute the foremost among the Elect.
Since many fundamentalist Christians hold that the End Times are imminent, I am surprised that not a single fundamentalist Evangelical preacher has proclaimed that Trump is the Anti-Christ--the one foretold in the Book of Revelations. This Anti-Christ is destined to lead many a believer astray.
Trump is so deceptive that he has convinced even Dr. James Dobson to accept him as a "baby Christian". The Rev. Billy Graham, Jr., has also been seduced by Trump and enlisted in his Legion.
How could Dr. Dobson and Rev. Graham, purported men of the Book, fail to see what Trump really and truly is?
Is Donald Trump the Anti-Christ who, like Milton's Satan, is unique unto his prideful and narcissistic self, and defies all customary human categorizations?
Even secular fact-checkers recognize that Trump is the Prince of Lies!
If a non-fundamentalist such as myself can read all of these signs and portents, why does what's so obvious elude the truly religious among us?
Or are Dobson and Graham Christianists (rhymes with Islamists)?
Just asking.
2
There is a reason why the Donald, now the liar-in-chief, loves the "poorly educated." They can be so easily fooled by the leaders of what former Governor Bobby calls "the Stupid Party." While they certainly have grievances, they were easily conned by our new film-flam man-in-chief's many lies.
Truth no longer matters...unfortunately.
Truth no longer matters...unfortunately.
1
Obviosly I'm feeling a bit jaded post election, but this just feels like another example of a democrat leaning journalist bringing a knife to a gun fight. A butter knife at that. These guys are churning out fake news stories by the hundreds that equate someone like Hillary to the devil, and the best we can do is eriditely point out that this doesn't seem like such a fair thing. We need someone to do exactly the same thing to the republicans.
2
Here's my problem with your suggestion that Democrats take the "high road" with Trump and the Republicans--remember what the GOP vowed when Obama won the Presidency? As I recall, they successfully blocked Obama on almost his whole intended agenda. And they loved it and hatefully encouraged people to believe that he (Obama) is not really an American. And so you encourage that we Democrats take the high road and legitimize Trump as the leader of the free world? And after we do that we will experience a wonderful togetherness with Trump and his followers and we will be rewarded for this? Really? Well, Mr. Krifstof, I do not believe you.
2
You're not in competition with alt right so why do you care?
There is massive demand for professional news coverage, most especially during a period such as the presidential election. The lack of it is fuelling websites like zerohedge.
But what you've just done has destroyed your remaining base of support by totally undermining your credibility with a basic, simple mistake. You showed blatant bias. You acted as a propaganda arm for one of the candidates.
You fundamentally misread the public mood.
The failure, and the problems you experience following on from it, have absolutely nothing to do with alt-right, and everything to do with you, and the choices you made.
Would be nice to hear you admit it, instead of pointing fingers elsewhere.
There is massive demand for professional news coverage, most especially during a period such as the presidential election. The lack of it is fuelling websites like zerohedge.
But what you've just done has destroyed your remaining base of support by totally undermining your credibility with a basic, simple mistake. You showed blatant bias. You acted as a propaganda arm for one of the candidates.
You fundamentally misread the public mood.
The failure, and the problems you experience following on from it, have absolutely nothing to do with alt-right, and everything to do with you, and the choices you made.
Would be nice to hear you admit it, instead of pointing fingers elsewhere.
1
"...we in the mainstream media...sometimes bungled coverage of Trump...there was not enough investigation of his business dealings, racism and history of sexual assaults, and too much false equivalency that equated the two candidates as equally flawed."
Sometimes bungled coverage, Mr. Kristof? Now that's an understatement! For most of the presidential campaign, I avoided the television network and cable news programming and instead got my daily news from a variety of newspapers from across the country, including the NY Times. For most of the last year, I marveled, and not in a good way, how every newspaper I was reading, including the NY Times, devoted amazingly little print and front page space to Donald Trump's many negatives, including those you listed above. I feel the lack of newspaper (and TV news) coverage, discussion and investigation of Trump's many issues and liabilities, all in the name of increased readership and ratings, were irresponsible and bordered on unethical. I'd also go as far as to lay much of the blame for Trump's successful election on all of the mainstream media, the NY Times included. Had you all responsibly done your jobs as true journalists and meaningfully, regularly informed the electorate of Trump's many serious issues, I'm sure that he wouldn't have been elected, perhaps wouldn't have even successfully gotten out of the primaries. But you all bungled and now, sadly, we're stuck with him.
Sometimes bungled coverage, Mr. Kristof? Now that's an understatement! For most of the presidential campaign, I avoided the television network and cable news programming and instead got my daily news from a variety of newspapers from across the country, including the NY Times. For most of the last year, I marveled, and not in a good way, how every newspaper I was reading, including the NY Times, devoted amazingly little print and front page space to Donald Trump's many negatives, including those you listed above. I feel the lack of newspaper (and TV news) coverage, discussion and investigation of Trump's many issues and liabilities, all in the name of increased readership and ratings, were irresponsible and bordered on unethical. I'd also go as far as to lay much of the blame for Trump's successful election on all of the mainstream media, the NY Times included. Had you all responsibly done your jobs as true journalists and meaningfully, regularly informed the electorate of Trump's many serious issues, I'm sure that he wouldn't have been elected, perhaps wouldn't have even successfully gotten out of the primaries. But you all bungled and now, sadly, we're stuck with him.
5
Tinfoil hats and military grade assault weapons are a bad mix.
Now that he's got their votes, he'd better reel them in.
Start by getting rid of Breibart.
Now that he's got their votes, he'd better reel them in.
Start by getting rid of Breibart.
3
Why listen only to unemployed steelworkers? How about underemployed baristas, care-givers, folks making ends meet by working two or three jobs? Don't they count? Those folks probably didn't vote because they couldn't afford to take the time off and wait in those interminable lines of which GOP state governments are so fond. We should be hearing from those folks.
4
I suspect that there is more than just 17-year-old kid in Macedonia trying to make some money.
I suspect that there is a well-oiled propaganda machine spending money to destroy the USA. You cannot in the mainstream media debunk every lie they come up with because they come up with ten of them every hour.
This is a war.
I suspect that there is a well-oiled propaganda machine spending money to destroy the USA. You cannot in the mainstream media debunk every lie they come up with because they come up with ten of them every hour.
This is a war.
2
I suspect you're right. In an impoverished place like Macedonia even rubles go a long way.
I share the same worries than Kristof about the state of disarray
in which the mainstream medias are facing the challenge to
debunk the onslaught of fake news and conspiracy theories all over
the web. Mainstream journalism in America is in crisis and the
numbers are staggering : 55 000 journalists were employed back
in 2007 compare to 35 000 today. As a result the local and small town
daily press has been decimate. On top of that local TV channels
are struggling to survive by lack of financial support and radios are gone.
Such a pity, historically since the nineteen century America had a
a formidable grid of news organisation second to no other country.
This is not about nostalgia but back in the seventies journalists
were a component of the working class in middle America sharing
the same lifestyle therefore able to report about local issues and to take
the pulse of the voters. The NYT is a fine and reputable news
organisation yet the day of the election the poll showing Clinton
favourability to win at 85% was wrong nationwide but right for
New York and San Francisco, it is very telling indeed.
To finish on a positive note I think the readers comments section
featuring the views, analyses and reports coming from all over
America on politics and society is a form of citizen's journalism.
I encourage my American friends to start their own news website
locally. The landscape ahead will look less grim. Yes you can !
in which the mainstream medias are facing the challenge to
debunk the onslaught of fake news and conspiracy theories all over
the web. Mainstream journalism in America is in crisis and the
numbers are staggering : 55 000 journalists were employed back
in 2007 compare to 35 000 today. As a result the local and small town
daily press has been decimate. On top of that local TV channels
are struggling to survive by lack of financial support and radios are gone.
Such a pity, historically since the nineteen century America had a
a formidable grid of news organisation second to no other country.
This is not about nostalgia but back in the seventies journalists
were a component of the working class in middle America sharing
the same lifestyle therefore able to report about local issues and to take
the pulse of the voters. The NYT is a fine and reputable news
organisation yet the day of the election the poll showing Clinton
favourability to win at 85% was wrong nationwide but right for
New York and San Francisco, it is very telling indeed.
To finish on a positive note I think the readers comments section
featuring the views, analyses and reports coming from all over
America on politics and society is a form of citizen's journalism.
I encourage my American friends to start their own news website
locally. The landscape ahead will look less grim. Yes you can !
1
What credibility do you suppose you'll have claiming protections under the First Amendment when this new president comes after you - which he will?
You advocated aggressively on behalf of his opponent, a woman so thoroughly discredited and disliked, who you tried to shove down the throats of an electorate you considered ignorant, racist and stupid, making no bones of the fact that was your opinion.
What support do you suppose they'll now offer you when you need it - which you will.
What right do you have to claim protections under the First Amendment
when you abuse your privilege to try to fix presidential elections on behalf of your favoured candidate?
You abdicated your role as professional journalists, and with that you
abdicated your right to any constitutional protections.
You're not journalists any longer, you're hacks, and everyone knows it.
So don't expect anybody to stand up and fight your corner. most especially don't expect the self-same American people, those you accuse of being dumb, ignorant and racist, to speak up on your behalf.
It's game over, and it's your fault.
You advocated aggressively on behalf of his opponent, a woman so thoroughly discredited and disliked, who you tried to shove down the throats of an electorate you considered ignorant, racist and stupid, making no bones of the fact that was your opinion.
What support do you suppose they'll now offer you when you need it - which you will.
What right do you have to claim protections under the First Amendment
when you abuse your privilege to try to fix presidential elections on behalf of your favoured candidate?
You abdicated your role as professional journalists, and with that you
abdicated your right to any constitutional protections.
You're not journalists any longer, you're hacks, and everyone knows it.
So don't expect anybody to stand up and fight your corner. most especially don't expect the self-same American people, those you accuse of being dumb, ignorant and racist, to speak up on your behalf.
It's game over, and it's your fault.
2
A co-worker told me that George Soros had manipulated voting machines "nation wide" to throw the election to Clinton. When I asked him if this was on the news he looked at me pityingly, and informed me "of course not". Can't argue with that.
Real News or Guise of News obviously doesn't matter to the non-readers of news who would have by default voted for President Apathy. I assume there is a fair amount of non-readers of news in the "basket of non-voters" every year. Every time I have a twinge of a feeling not to vote for some lesser election, there appears in my mind the picture of Peter Fechter, the 18 year old East German bricklayer shot dead by the East German Police, as he tried to escape to West Berlin. At the place of his death is a memorial inscribed with "Er Wollte nur die Freiheit" (He only wanted freedom). I go vote. This year President Apathy was elected by huge numbers. 93 million Americans who were eligible to vote, did not. US 2016 Election results - Trump 25% of electorate, Clinton 26%, President Apathy 40%. Apathy won in a landslide! Even Adoph Hilter in 1934 did not beat President Apathy in the US. He was elected with 34% of eligible voters.
1
Good article, but underemphasizes the roll that main stream media outlets played early on in "normalizing" Trump to the American people as he vied for the nomination. Why give someone who is clearly unqualified for office that much airtime that early on other than ratings and readership?
Nor was he called out on his lies and exaggerations early enough or with enough vigor before he gained traction. Why wasn't he simply dropped all together or at most rarely covered in funny farcical entertainment pieces as a distracrion from ine of the lingest campaigns in history ?How could the "legitimate" media possibly take him so seriously and thus enabled him?
Well money of course!
By giving him that much free coverage/airtime they gradually normalized Trump and desensitized much of the American people. We watched and suffered as he gradually grew bolder and bolder as he learned what worked...what lies and outrageous exaggerations garned him more attention, more coverage and increased support from a marginalized, easily manipulated electorate.
That's the frightening problem with news as entertainment. Media outlets which have morphed into profit centers for the corporations that own them were once kept separate as break even entities so they could be objective.
How is a country with an average 15% full literacy level supposed to stand a chance learning the truth? Its a recipe for the rise of a facist populist regime. As scary as a Trump Presidency is, this is far scarier.
Nor was he called out on his lies and exaggerations early enough or with enough vigor before he gained traction. Why wasn't he simply dropped all together or at most rarely covered in funny farcical entertainment pieces as a distracrion from ine of the lingest campaigns in history ?How could the "legitimate" media possibly take him so seriously and thus enabled him?
Well money of course!
By giving him that much free coverage/airtime they gradually normalized Trump and desensitized much of the American people. We watched and suffered as he gradually grew bolder and bolder as he learned what worked...what lies and outrageous exaggerations garned him more attention, more coverage and increased support from a marginalized, easily manipulated electorate.
That's the frightening problem with news as entertainment. Media outlets which have morphed into profit centers for the corporations that own them were once kept separate as break even entities so they could be objective.
How is a country with an average 15% full literacy level supposed to stand a chance learning the truth? Its a recipe for the rise of a facist populist regime. As scary as a Trump Presidency is, this is far scarier.
3
All week long, everyone has been getting the sad news that Clint Eastwood died. Smartly lies generate clicks. Clicks generate money for the liar. The Washington Post puts odd little buttons under their banner: "SNL" "Confederate flag" "Sex slavery" ... so that, like the National Enquirer's front page used to sell papers to marginally educated grandparents, they can generate click revenue.
This is the new economic reality of the "news" media.
This is the new economic reality of the "news" media.
I think that the answer to the sage comments of extremist websites is right under our nose. During the debates, comments were fact-checked. There should exist a freestanding, non-partisan media source to evaluate the statements other newspapers or websites that have a certain number of readers.
Otherwise, hatred and lies will just beget more hatred and lies.
Otherwise, hatred and lies will just beget more hatred and lies.
As an appeal to boost the credibility of mainstream media, this is the worst timing possible. The NYT was so certain of its predictions of a Clinton victory that its pumping out of such random wishfulness likely caused voters to stay home, steadfast in the security of the NYT's self-congratulatory assurances that the outcome of a Clinton landslide victory was already known. There's hardly a site named in this article that remotely produced the misinformation damage that can remotely compare with that of NYT, MSNBC, FOX, CBS and CNN. Wikileaks has credibility because the mainstream corporate media abandoned evidence-based research and investigative reporting in favor of vacuous editorials promoting the agendas of mainstream corporate political candidates.
59
One sided reporting in the guise of impartial news is obliterating the public trust in the news media
3
It is not just lies that are the problem, it is also a lack of reasonableness about what should be put on the front page. Comey's letter to Congress saying that [a few other e-mails had been found, but he hasn't looked at them yet].... was broadcast front and center like it was earth rattling news. There should have been more discretion with the tone and the approach to this. The letter should have been published and not lengthy reactions to this supposed intervention of the FBI. The fact that Hillary now wants to blame Comey and not the media shows me that she is rather gutless.
I am as angry about this outcome as the angriest commenter in these pages.
But blaming the media for the loss is like blaming the refs when the game doesn't go your way. Yes, were there some egregious penalties (false equivalence, insufficient reporting on Trump's business practices, the Comey letter, etc) that should have been called? Sure.
But when your side is handed a gift like the Access Hollywood tape and you still can't win, don't you have to question your own game plan? Don't you have to question why you didn't do enough to convince disaffected citizens, who are really hurting, to vote for you? Shouldn't you have spent more time in factories explaining to blue collar workers why slapping a 35% tariff on imported products would be terrible for them--and that your plan to revitalize the economy through infrastructure spending and better education for their kids was the better solution? Shouldn't you have spent more time answering questions from the media instead of walling yourself off from them? Most of them ( Fox News being the notable exception) were rooting for you. And when you do make a mistake--the private email server--shouldn't you have dealt with it differently? Instead of sounding defensive and trying to convince the teacher your answer was correct (no, those three emails were not marked classified) shouldn't you have just moved on?
For democrats to recover, before doing anything else, take a good long look in the mirror.
But blaming the media for the loss is like blaming the refs when the game doesn't go your way. Yes, were there some egregious penalties (false equivalence, insufficient reporting on Trump's business practices, the Comey letter, etc) that should have been called? Sure.
But when your side is handed a gift like the Access Hollywood tape and you still can't win, don't you have to question your own game plan? Don't you have to question why you didn't do enough to convince disaffected citizens, who are really hurting, to vote for you? Shouldn't you have spent more time in factories explaining to blue collar workers why slapping a 35% tariff on imported products would be terrible for them--and that your plan to revitalize the economy through infrastructure spending and better education for their kids was the better solution? Shouldn't you have spent more time answering questions from the media instead of walling yourself off from them? Most of them ( Fox News being the notable exception) were rooting for you. And when you do make a mistake--the private email server--shouldn't you have dealt with it differently? Instead of sounding defensive and trying to convince the teacher your answer was correct (no, those three emails were not marked classified) shouldn't you have just moved on?
For democrats to recover, before doing anything else, take a good long look in the mirror.
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What amazes me is that, in a 24/7 news cycle, no one has the time to sort fact from fiction and inform the public about which is which.
No money in it, I guess.
No money in it, I guess.
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Thank you, again, Mr. Kristof for an insightful column.
Sounds like we all need a letter-writing campaign to Mr. Zuckerberg and the Facebook Board of Directors about the ease with which some groups are formed and maintained on Facebook. These groups need to be vetted (not sure who would be responsible for the vetting, however) - just throwing the idea out there.
Mr. Zuckerberg can certainly afford a slightly reduced revenue stream from advertisements.
While I have a Facebook account, I don't use Facebook for "news" because this mature woman views Facebook as means of spreading malicious gossip to some degree. We as a nation need much more kindness and significantly less hate.
P.S. So sorry to hear of your encounter with a would-be criminal here in Philly yesterday....
Sounds like we all need a letter-writing campaign to Mr. Zuckerberg and the Facebook Board of Directors about the ease with which some groups are formed and maintained on Facebook. These groups need to be vetted (not sure who would be responsible for the vetting, however) - just throwing the idea out there.
Mr. Zuckerberg can certainly afford a slightly reduced revenue stream from advertisements.
While I have a Facebook account, I don't use Facebook for "news" because this mature woman views Facebook as means of spreading malicious gossip to some degree. We as a nation need much more kindness and significantly less hate.
P.S. So sorry to hear of your encounter with a would-be criminal here in Philly yesterday....
I have worried about this a lot, too...it seems that once someone falls for these ridiculous lies, not even Jesus himself could convince them otherwise (okay, bad example, I'm an atheist - but you know what I mean).
Mostly, I blame the internet: before widespread use, writers went through a sort of vetting process to get their stuff published, which prevented - at lest to some degree - totally crazy and false "information" from getting out there and subsequently believed; nowadays, any idiot can publish whatever they want, and with a few formatting skills can make a site that looks perfectly legitimate.
So what's the solution? I really have no idea, but I a would sure be interested in one. Maybe a requirement that a bipartisan fact-checking team rated sites that were required to have that information available - like the Better Business Bureau? No doubt some of those same sites would put out articles about the Vast Conspiracy to Hide the Truth, as they have with sites like factchecker.org. This is a crisis, and I have yet to think of a way out of it.
Mostly, I blame the internet: before widespread use, writers went through a sort of vetting process to get their stuff published, which prevented - at lest to some degree - totally crazy and false "information" from getting out there and subsequently believed; nowadays, any idiot can publish whatever they want, and with a few formatting skills can make a site that looks perfectly legitimate.
So what's the solution? I really have no idea, but I a would sure be interested in one. Maybe a requirement that a bipartisan fact-checking team rated sites that were required to have that information available - like the Better Business Bureau? No doubt some of those same sites would put out articles about the Vast Conspiracy to Hide the Truth, as they have with sites like factchecker.org. This is a crisis, and I have yet to think of a way out of it.
"No Truth is Too Sacred; No Lie too Great" is their motto. This trend shakes me to my foundation. In high school, we were given lessons on clear-thinking; we were taught that lying is bad. We watched actual footage of the Third Reich as part of our education on the Holocaust (yes, it was a Catholic school). What came out of those lessons was a pledge that we individuals would walk away from such crowds, never allow ourselves to be swept up as German citizens were. This isn't the 3rd Reich, but the trends to trample truth are freightening. Is Global Warming really an "expensive hoax". If he's wrong, we've made a terrible mistake. What we need is a ray of hope, a visible trend that makes clear thinking and verifiable facts "cool" again, as it was in the Renaissance.
How you possibly complain about alternative news sites after your performance during this election?? The bias exhibited was shameful! But, to then find out that your polling was primarily based on liberals talking to each other really helps to make the rights case. Michael Moore was the only one to really call this (besides Trump) and the left jumped all over him to the point that he felt obligated to retract. Call Trump an idiot all you want but guess who is president and fooled all the experts......Furthermore, the Republicans who you ridiculed now control both houses of government, a plethora of governorships and state legislatures. Well done to all the liberal pundits!
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Since Reagan's gutting of the Fairness Doctrine in 1987, the Democrats have had several chances to go back to a saner media world. They didn't use them.
A strong stance against the whole email fiasco concerning Clinton would have been a start. But from the beginning of this election, the NYT and other media outlets pandered to DT's brash, vitriolic statements because it improved ratings and made money for media outlets. Money became more important than educating the voting public or holding Clinton or DT's feet to the fire. The media failed horribly. And for that reason, I cancelled my subscription to the NYT. I want hard-core reporting and stories based on facts, not some namby pamby story to make your editors or reporters feel good.
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Bonnie: they were crippled by their extreme arrogance and a deeply held belief that "they could not lose!" because "history and DEMOGRAPHICS were on their side".
They said this many times, in print and it was oft repeated by posters here.
It was that blindered arrogance that led them astray. Whenever you think that "I cannot possibly be wrong"....you usually are.
They said this many times, in print and it was oft repeated by posters here.
It was that blindered arrogance that led them astray. Whenever you think that "I cannot possibly be wrong"....you usually are.
And what credibility do you think you or the rest of the staff of the Times has to tell us the truth?
We know that the you columnists get invited for posh cocktail parties on the upper west side, where you get "access." In exchange for, of course, a nice story. Write a critical story? No more invites for you!
I was a press secretary. I know who most reporters want to talk to. The person in charge, who is often a figurehead, who knows little about what is actually going on in the organization. They don't want to talk to the operational person three levels down who actually knows stuff. I know how that works- "I talked to the chief poobah of very important organization." No one wants to be the reporter who says "I talked to a bunch of workers there in the bar after work."
As a result, most reporters are merely stenographers for the powerful, parroting back the lines that the powerful give them at those high powered meetings and cocktail parties.
How else do you explain the Iraq war debacle? Or the most recent failure- the inability to see Trump's obvious popularity?
I know- not you, of course.
But don't you live in a rich, almost entirely white suburb from where you lecture the rest of us about race and class?
How in touch are you, really?
How in touch are any of your colleagues?
Your nearly lockstep, smug, supremely confident support for a candidate who lost a race she should have won suggests the answer: not very in touch at all.
We know that the you columnists get invited for posh cocktail parties on the upper west side, where you get "access." In exchange for, of course, a nice story. Write a critical story? No more invites for you!
I was a press secretary. I know who most reporters want to talk to. The person in charge, who is often a figurehead, who knows little about what is actually going on in the organization. They don't want to talk to the operational person three levels down who actually knows stuff. I know how that works- "I talked to the chief poobah of very important organization." No one wants to be the reporter who says "I talked to a bunch of workers there in the bar after work."
As a result, most reporters are merely stenographers for the powerful, parroting back the lines that the powerful give them at those high powered meetings and cocktail parties.
How else do you explain the Iraq war debacle? Or the most recent failure- the inability to see Trump's obvious popularity?
I know- not you, of course.
But don't you live in a rich, almost entirely white suburb from where you lecture the rest of us about race and class?
How in touch are you, really?
How in touch are any of your colleagues?
Your nearly lockstep, smug, supremely confident support for a candidate who lost a race she should have won suggests the answer: not very in touch at all.
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Thank you for this wonderful, insightful comment.
I would only want to add that it is NOT just the super affluent white gated suburban community that lefties hide out in....it is just as likely today to be the hip, urban enclave with it's $900,000 studio apartments where only the most affluent can live, that keeps out blacks and working class whites just as effectively as any gated suburban neighborhood.
I would only want to add that it is NOT just the super affluent white gated suburban community that lefties hide out in....it is just as likely today to be the hip, urban enclave with it's $900,000 studio apartments where only the most affluent can live, that keeps out blacks and working class whites just as effectively as any gated suburban neighborhood.
SNS is a excellent tool to create new movements. The sad side is that the movements it creates are destructive (not create fruitful institutions) ones. Vide, Arab Spring!
This is hardly new news. I hear misinformation like this every day from those around me. It is sickening. On November 7th a coworker (who also runs the children's Altar server program) instructed us in the truth about HRC's sexuality, and then repeated again on Facebook! I blushed. Can mainstream media be that out of touch that I know about these fake news outlets and they don't? Are there no laws to protect us from slander and lies? I suspect this is a convenient ignorance directed by media moguls to promote both ratings and public anxiety. It's great GOP advertising, and we pay for it! Slander without impunity reigns and it is apparently just fine by them. The prospect of a media star in the oval should have raised red flags, but news people, your concerns are a bit late. See what happens? "When the people fear the government, there is tyranny." (T. Jefferson).
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In your previous op-ed piece you suggest "giving President Trump a chance." I'm open to giving him if he repudiates the hostile acts of bigotry and hatred of his own and those associated with his supporters, appoints at least some democrats and/or moderates to top positions in his administration and stops recruiting those (i.e. lobbyists) he condemned in his campaign.
As it turns out, Trump was the beneficiary of what was a rigged election what with Comey and the likely Russian involvement with Wikileaks. His presidency certainly appears illegitimate.
As it turns out, Trump was the beneficiary of what was a rigged election what with Comey and the likely Russian involvement with Wikileaks. His presidency certainly appears illegitimate.
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Thank you for pointing out some of what Hillary and Dems were up against in this dirtiest of campaigns. And for further evidence of how the dirt streams back decades.
Hillary likely would have won the Presidency handily without outside interference, instead of just the popular vote by a couple million.
Meanwhile, Frank Bruni takes the low-self-esteem route and blames Dems for their poor performance. I'd tell him what I really think of his misplacement of blame, but his piece is cowardly devoid of a comment section.
Hillary likely would have won the Presidency handily without outside interference, instead of just the popular vote by a couple million.
Meanwhile, Frank Bruni takes the low-self-esteem route and blames Dems for their poor performance. I'd tell him what I really think of his misplacement of blame, but his piece is cowardly devoid of a comment section.
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Maybe if the major new organizations were not so bias people would not seek other sources. The media repeated and repeated over and over that Trump is anti immigration (read it again yesterday in the Wash Post.) Trump is anti ILLEGAL immigration. The main stream media keeps calling illegal alien "undocumented" As is they had documents but the court house burned down. Media kept saying Trump wanted to scrap NATO. Nope just wants them to pay a fair share. Current the US pays 75%. Europe should be paying 75%. Another example the media reports about unarmed perps being shot. All perps are considered armed and dangerous. Otherwise there would be many many dead police. It's only after the fact that it's discovered the perp was unarmed. But we can't risk police and bystanders lives to try and find out.
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You don't need to go to the "alt" to see the right's War on Truth. Half of Trump's lies were just amplifications of right-wing fantasies going back years. Rampant alleged voter fraud has been a generational project. How many Fox segments were there on ebola and terrorists coming across the Mexican border? Remember Glenn Beck's crazy rants? The Laffer curve and trickle-down economics; climate change denial; every manner of sponge, coincidentally dark-skinned, going back at least to Reagan-era "welfare queens"; the list could go on endlessly.
Here's the latest salvo, verbatim, from the still influential Rush Limbaugh.
"This fact-check technique is the latest. Let me tell you what it really is. There is no fact-checking. The fact that The New York Times, and The Washington Post, and USA Today, and all these other papers and networks now have fact-checkers is for one reason. It allows them to fool you into thinking they have an objective, nonpartisan staff or person analyzing everything the candidates are saying, and telling you what they're saying is true, or what they're saying is false. When in fact the fact-checkers are no different than the biased left-leaning reporters and columnists at these papers and on networks."
It is, really, a War on Truth. It runs up and down the right, from alt through mainstream right-wing media through Congress to the previous Republican President and the new President-elect. The left is not saintly but it has nothing comparable.
Here's the latest salvo, verbatim, from the still influential Rush Limbaugh.
"This fact-check technique is the latest. Let me tell you what it really is. There is no fact-checking. The fact that The New York Times, and The Washington Post, and USA Today, and all these other papers and networks now have fact-checkers is for one reason. It allows them to fool you into thinking they have an objective, nonpartisan staff or person analyzing everything the candidates are saying, and telling you what they're saying is true, or what they're saying is false. When in fact the fact-checkers are no different than the biased left-leaning reporters and columnists at these papers and on networks."
It is, really, a War on Truth. It runs up and down the right, from alt through mainstream right-wing media through Congress to the previous Republican President and the new President-elect. The left is not saintly but it has nothing comparable.
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"Democrats are too quick to caricature Trump supporters as deplorables," you said in your last op-ed. The racist and extremist websites you site do not reflect the beliefs of the norm. Remember your neighbors in Yamhill, who may look at a picture of evil-clown Hillary and laugh, but take it with the same credibility of a Enquirer bat-boy story.
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Facebook. All I have to do is look at it to see the harm it does. Nobody at Facebook understands either the First Amendment or responsible journalism or journalistic credentials. It's the same nasty swamp as Reddit, with Lynch Obama hate groups and the biggest kooks imaginable. There are moderators, who are incredibly ignorant of what they're doing! I've spoken with some, these people don't understand inflammatory speech.
The best thing for this country would be for Facebook to shut down tomorrow. Or the little snots who run it could take some responsibility and be adults about it, but I'm not holding my breath. They've encouraged a race to the bottom and we seem to be almost there.
The best thing for this country would be for Facebook to shut down tomorrow. Or the little snots who run it could take some responsibility and be adults about it, but I'm not holding my breath. They've encouraged a race to the bottom and we seem to be almost there.
Most of us are born knowing the difference between love and hate. Mainstream news needs to do a better job helping citizens distinguish fact from fiction.
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I do not think that that Obama and the democrats let working-class America down. I think the working-class was gullible and believed the guys who couldn't care less about them and use them as tools to make themselves rich. Yes, the working-class is mad and they are bitter. But who did they listen to? They listened to the guy blaming the brown guy and the black guy for their woes. Its the brown guys sneaking over the border taking your jobs, not the fact that you might have to train for something new like renewable energy because your old manufacturing job just isn't coming back. Its that black guy who probably isn't even an American the reason your healthcare costs so much, not the for-profit healthcare system. And there are no infrastructure jobs because of him also, not because Republicans won't pass an infrastructure bill to put working-class American back to work. Republicans swear they're not racist and working-class whites swear they're not racist but it sure is easy blaming minorities when you're not getting what you think you deserve.
Studs Terkel didn't have an agenda. He just interviewed people. The audience was left to draw their own conclusions. It was better than insulting fake news or insulting real news.
It's not easy to figure out how to tell someone gracefully that they're mistaken.
It's not easy to figure out how to tell someone gracefully that they're mistaken.
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The shock, the disruption has reverberated globally. Imagine 11 and 12-year-old Indian students being besotted by the 2016 result. They expressed joy and excitement for 30 minutes. After that, silence. Like most pundits, the result beggared belief. It still does. And, no matter how one wants to switch the perspective, roll over and change channels as one does during sleep, nothing changes the nightmare surprise. From one perspective, democracy is expressing its disdain of elite self-service (and rightly so), from another, the process has confirmed that anyone without experience, without articulate thoughts, without a global mind can speak with thoughts so horrid to this day and age and still be elected, it is frankly frightening. The result speaks poniards about the US. I must say too, that many global people now see the US in an entirely different light. Frankly, if this is how a majority of Americans think and feel through their confirmation with DT we are in for a big, long, cold, sad period ahead. So may folk look up to the US. Now, however, it will be with shock and distrust. Most global folk, don't read the fine print, they just see, conclude and feel. Does it mean, that anyone, really, can be elected to what is a magnanimous role? Mostly, I personally feel for Obama: a great man undermined by a nemesis who will destroy bridges, hollow out all that a 21st century nation should be nurturing.
1
In Trump's America, the National Enquirer will be the newspaper of record.
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In addition to strengthening our democracy, perhaps pointing out the crazy in fake news will boost NYT readership? What is the start date on this? Will there be a dedicated section? Going to throw in humor, create NYT's version of the Onion? Yup, can't wait to see this! But not holding my breath.
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it doesn't say much for the 'folks' that many believe this craziness. perhaps encouraging critical thinking was absent during their years of schooling or the incredible number of born again Christians who believe the bible is literally true discourages questioning. in any case, Americans' rugged individualism seems to a rather large farce.
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For many reasons I deleted my facebook page on Friday morning. We don't really need it. It was sucking up much time. I am concerned by the stories about Mark Zuckerberg presiding over fake news. The fact that Trump supporter and CEO of PayPal, Peter Thiel, is on the board of facebook begins to fit in with the abuse of power that must be so tempting. As an avowed Hillary supporter I received a post on the right hand side of my page about Beyonce and JZ, a picture showing them dressed as "black Ken and Barbie" for Halloween, in itself perhaps not unusual, except for the fact that the real news was that they were in Philadelphia with Hillary Clinton and Bruce Springsteen in an impressive Dem. event. That was not at all mentioned. The latter would have been positive, the former was an invasion of their private celebration of Halloween and a misuse.
1
YES. This is the biggest problem in politics today, and I don't know how the legitimate media and politicians who embrace it can compete against lies and fantasies.
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The propaganda media has been there all along and we intelligentsia liberals have misunderstood just how focused, pernicious and motivated they are to sway the public's opinion of what is real. Understand. They don't READ. their view of reality is talk radio and TV, that is Fox "News". Wake up. They are organized, motivated and focused on winning the hearts and minds of Middle Americca. Look at the map of the election results. Hillary took the densely populated urban states and not much else. Wake up Liberals. "It's about the Economy stupid".
As one from red state country, I can state that you are absolutely correct. Many of my right wing Republican friends over age 50 have never had a book on a bookshelf in their homes.
But they read the sports section of the newspaper to feed their need to keep up what th football.
Their news source? Fox.
But they read the sports section of the newspaper to feed their need to keep up what th football.
Their news source? Fox.
Well I detect many lies in the nyt every day, they paint opinion as real news, use overly emotional words to excess, and many other things that I was taught real journalist don't do. Of course there are many such when you have the internet.
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All of Nicholas Kristof's concerns about alt-right lying may be justified but that hardly excuses the MSM. Mr. Kristof rightly suggests that "There was too much uncritical television coverage of Trump because he was good for ratings" but there was also too much uncritical coverage in the New York Times which, until the last few weeks of the campaign enabled the fiction of equivalent mendacity between the two campaigns to perpetuate on its pages.
Even during the weeks immediately preceding the election, neither mainstream print nor television journalism discussed the substantive issues confronting the American people. It was all about polls, predictions, gaffes, "locker-room talk," and would-she/wouldn't-she be indicted for her alleged email "criminality." No media outlet emerges from our campaign-from-hell smelling like roses. Sadly, the campaign is just the beginning.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
Even during the weeks immediately preceding the election, neither mainstream print nor television journalism discussed the substantive issues confronting the American people. It was all about polls, predictions, gaffes, "locker-room talk," and would-she/wouldn't-she be indicted for her alleged email "criminality." No media outlet emerges from our campaign-from-hell smelling like roses. Sadly, the campaign is just the beginning.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
2
Your restraint in reporting one of the scariest moments in US history and the use of blatant lies in media is charming.
If Comey had directed his election deciding innuendo towards the Donald instead of Hilary the results would have been different.
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Almost 4 million signatures so far!
Electoral College Electors: Electoral College Make Hillary Clinton President on December 19 - Sign the Petition!
https://www.change.org/p/electoral-college-electors-electoral-college-ma...
Electoral College Electors: Electoral College Make Hillary Clinton President on December 19 - Sign the Petition!
https://www.change.org/p/electoral-college-electors-electoral-college-ma...
1
Sandy, what would you have said had the election gone the other way and Hillary won -- to Trump supporters who refused to accept the results of a legitimate election, and instead sought to corrupt and bribe electors to change the results?
Would you not be calling it sedition and treason?
Would you not be calling it sedition and treason?
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H.L. Mencken gave us the modern definition of democracy a century ago. It is the theory of government that the people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard.
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I just had a long message via facebook from an old acquaintance, pointing out that Obama's America has been hellish, and orgy of black men and illegal immigrants raping and murdering white people with impunity, while the administration imported millions of disease-ridden criminals to swell Democratic voters rolls, while using the IRS and other government agencies to persecute the "pro-Constitution" movement, and working to nullify or repeal the 2nd amendment, and render white American defenseless. And The Media, in the pockets of the liberal elite, refuse to report any of it.
She said that real Americans were terrified when Obama was elected, but they didn't riot and attack policemen and burn their own neighborhood the way liberals do. Etc
And she believes every word of it. When I ask her for evidence to back up these allegations, she scoffs, declaring that everyone know about all this except willfully blind liberals who live in some kind of fantasy land of their own.
Oh, she's just some kind of fringe loony, you will say. Not so. There are millions like her.
I tremble for my country.
She said that real Americans were terrified when Obama was elected, but they didn't riot and attack policemen and burn their own neighborhood the way liberals do. Etc
And she believes every word of it. When I ask her for evidence to back up these allegations, she scoffs, declaring that everyone know about all this except willfully blind liberals who live in some kind of fantasy land of their own.
Oh, she's just some kind of fringe loony, you will say. Not so. There are millions like her.
I tremble for my country.
393
And there are millions of liberals who are equally irrational. There have always been foolish people and they have always come from a wide range of political perspectives.
The country is fine. These melodramatic (and likely exaggerated) narratives are embarrassing.
The country is fine. These melodramatic (and likely exaggerated) narratives are embarrassing.
Either way, the world is at a cross road. The future is not only about the middle class, but the idea that human labor itself will exist going forward, and neither party has even begun to address that issue.
Outsourcing to self driving cars, truck, buses, and other robots of one ilk or another is happening right here in the US, and no trade agreements are required to drive it forward.
It's not just the robots and artificial intelligence itself, it is the fact that those technologies, AND the actual robots and artificial brains themselves are owned, lock, stock, and barrel, along with the underlying intellectual property by corporations.
That pretty much leaves the fate of humans to corporations. The one piece leverage that we have is that the production of wealth requires consumption. The question is: how far above serfdom does that get us?
If we go with the stated status quo (either Trump's or Hillary's version), we will continue to ignore this reality. But, that said, it makes a lot more sense to vote for the party of humans and humanity, rather of the party that wants to delegate the governance of humans to corporations (broadly defined as "business"). The idea of earning a few shekels still has a lot more appeal than waiting for a Republican limo to drive through the ghetto on the hopes that the 'exceptional' inside will take pity and throw out a few coins.
Outsourcing to self driving cars, truck, buses, and other robots of one ilk or another is happening right here in the US, and no trade agreements are required to drive it forward.
It's not just the robots and artificial intelligence itself, it is the fact that those technologies, AND the actual robots and artificial brains themselves are owned, lock, stock, and barrel, along with the underlying intellectual property by corporations.
That pretty much leaves the fate of humans to corporations. The one piece leverage that we have is that the production of wealth requires consumption. The question is: how far above serfdom does that get us?
If we go with the stated status quo (either Trump's or Hillary's version), we will continue to ignore this reality. But, that said, it makes a lot more sense to vote for the party of humans and humanity, rather of the party that wants to delegate the governance of humans to corporations (broadly defined as "business"). The idea of earning a few shekels still has a lot more appeal than waiting for a Republican limo to drive through the ghetto on the hopes that the 'exceptional' inside will take pity and throw out a few coins.
I know too many people like that too. It makes me feel the country is doomed, the real Zombie Apocalypse is here.
If mainstream media tried to swat away all the alt.right lies, they would have space for little else. That was part of the problem with Trump as a serial liar: he told so many lies that, by the time they were noticed, they were already old news. It seems to me that there needs to be some sort of public education campaign, maybe starting in younger children's schools, about how to responsibly use the internet.
He started right away, with his tweet the 'professional organizers' are inciting the protests against him. What hogwash. And yet, that is what every rightist will now believe..
Despite the elites sending the Democrat Party somewhere back into the last century, the trashing of Trump voters continues.
No lesson learned. If the story sounds fabulously unreal, it probably is. And the NYT has published more than one this political season.
No lesson learned. If the story sounds fabulously unreal, it probably is. And the NYT has published more than one this political season.
One possible silver lining to this election (although, admittedly, it's a pretty thin layer of silver) is that with the Republicans running everything, those profitable alt right websites won't be able to blame anyone on the left for what's about to go very wrong. And that may mean a significant drop in their revenues when they can't instill fear of Dems in high office in their audience.
Related -- the stock price of Smith & Wesson has already dropped -- can't sell guns on the premise that at any moment the gummint's gonna grab them.
Related -- the stock price of Smith & Wesson has already dropped -- can't sell guns on the premise that at any moment the gummint's gonna grab them.
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I'm not sure that I read any bigger lies than right here.
1
It does make us wonder when it is all said and done Trump voters will just be left thinking about how much they mistakenly thought Donald Trump was honestly not just spewing, but talking just to them, that he cared just about them, that he was going to do something special just for them.
They will almost hold the sadness package and journey, maybe even more than the rest of us visited this week.
They will almost hold the sadness package and journey, maybe even more than the rest of us visited this week.
2
I felt betrayed when reading your last post (Nov. 9), as you breezily asked us to give a bigot, sexist, misogynist, mean inciter of ugliness, hatred, racism, and alt-right ascendancy a chance. Please.
Now you recognize that the media should be doing what The Daily Show has been doing for nearly 20 years?
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Somehow I don't think the problem lies with you. Mainstream may be out of touch with citizens who choose to read--and believe--alt-right media but I don't believe any attempt by you and other mainstream newspapers to reach out to them would change their views. There may be a correlation with the disconnect, but I don't think there's any causation. Please don't swallow any blame that is not yours.
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Hey, I thought Trump was the Anti-Christ. That's what i heard anyway, from somewhere, trust me, I know, I hear things.
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The birth of a new era! Please start with Fox News.
Mainstream media, including the NYT paid more attention to Trump's tweets and finally turned around in October when it was too late. Lots of what he initially tweeted needed to be ignored and instead, it was big news. He bragged about all the free publicity he got when he echoed alt-right statements about Hillary. Hilla As for the mainstream press, Hillary reporting was often more negative and at times I was really appalled at NYT treatment of her. I would love to see a full expose of Alt-right press. At this point it looks like Steve Bannon from Breitbart may be considered for Chief of Staff. YIKES!
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Finally, a respected journalist paying attention to the spread of malicious lies. I have been saying this for a while and I believe it played a significant part in the election. That no one in the news media was willing to challenge these outrageous lies is very troubling and dangerous. Think of ISIS and their propaganda machine that spits out extremists. My news feed was littered with this stuff and I'm a Canadian; but the Canadian evangelical is bathed in American politics, particularly agenda of the right (now the alt-right). Most of these sites were spread by the religious right, who are normally people with good intentions and moral judgement, but not during this election. They gobbled up these lies and spewed them out for their friends to read; and even when exposed as lies they were, they continued to spread them. When I mentioned such things to some of my more liberal leaning friends, they had no idea of what I was talking about. Do not under-estimate the power of this indoctrination and the influence these websites had in how evangelicals view Hillary, Obama and Trump. Thank you Mr. Kristof.
There are a lot of dumb people in the world. They're not necessarily bad, but they're dumb. I have a neighbor. Successful business owner, family man, good person. Yet he forwards me chain emails about Hillary and Benghazi and such, that are so obviously wrong! I sometimes reply with a link to Snopes showing that they're false. He doesn't care. He prefers the lie.
Just as they refused to believe the truth about Obama, they will refuse to believe the truth about Trump. They'll stand with him.
I keep looking for a silver lining to this Trump disaster, for something that suggests things aren't as bad as they now seem. But the more I think about Trump being president, the worse it gets.
Just as they refused to believe the truth about Obama, they will refuse to believe the truth about Trump. They'll stand with him.
I keep looking for a silver lining to this Trump disaster, for something that suggests things aren't as bad as they now seem. But the more I think about Trump being president, the worse it gets.
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Ker...I'm not sure that "dumb" is the right word. I prefer "intellectually lazy" coupled with "intellectually arrogant". The lazy portion applies when people refuse to dig a bit for the actual facts behind a story. The facts are usually out there; it just takes some work. The arrogant portion seems to apply to your neighbor. These are the folks who are thinking, "I'm right because I AM RIGHT".
The evil is in the belief.
When you are a member of a religion -- Judaism, Christian or Islam -- for examples, that indoctrinates you from your birth that: The interpretation of god offered you by your group is the only truth; those that do not follow this particular dogma, will spend an eternity being roasted, ripped to shreds, etc, while those who do follow said doctrine, get to play shuffleboard with god, bush and cheney for eternity ~or~ will have a bunch of your own personal virgins to deflower.
With a majority of the world poplulation being abused with such nonsense for the first four years of their lives and then having this nonsense continually reinforced for the rest of their lives, the world being a hot-bed of bigotry is, at least to me, not surprising at all.
When you are a member of a religion -- Judaism, Christian or Islam -- for examples, that indoctrinates you from your birth that: The interpretation of god offered you by your group is the only truth; those that do not follow this particular dogma, will spend an eternity being roasted, ripped to shreds, etc, while those who do follow said doctrine, get to play shuffleboard with god, bush and cheney for eternity ~or~ will have a bunch of your own personal virgins to deflower.
With a majority of the world poplulation being abused with such nonsense for the first four years of their lives and then having this nonsense continually reinforced for the rest of their lives, the world being a hot-bed of bigotry is, at least to me, not surprising at all.
I hate to say this but I think the mainstream media will be relegated to the dustbin of history.
It is not so much that they are are out of touch with ordinary voters it's that ordinary voters willfully ignore facts that challenge their beliefs.
If you believe that Obama was a Kenyan, Muslim socialist, you will not believe a credible news source that disputed it because there were so many sources that affirmed your belief. It's easy to dismiss the truth when you can buy lies that make you feel better.
The landscape is more than grim, Steve Bannon as chief of staff will put the final nail in the coffin of truth.
It is not so much that they are are out of touch with ordinary voters it's that ordinary voters willfully ignore facts that challenge their beliefs.
If you believe that Obama was a Kenyan, Muslim socialist, you will not believe a credible news source that disputed it because there were so many sources that affirmed your belief. It's easy to dismiss the truth when you can buy lies that make you feel better.
The landscape is more than grim, Steve Bannon as chief of staff will put the final nail in the coffin of truth.
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...unless, the other side (us?) is willing to crawl just as low in order to right things. Trump was seen in a private meeting with Putin at the White House. McConnell has secret plan to leave Obamacare available for former Trump supporters only; Trump has secret communications with Alex Jones to plan the next gun attack. Get disgusting. Get Dirty. Get Trump.
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I am not sure where I fit in politically. I came to believe earlier this year that neither Mrs Clinton nor Mr Trump is qualified to lead this country. And further events and media exposure just reinforced that belief. We truly are in difficult times. I believe that a good part of the cause for this paucity of qualified candidates is the polarization of the American political scene. We would benefit from a centrist candidate.
But of course where is "the middle" of the political spectrum. I think it's where I stand. But you will think it's where you stand. And Mr Kristof will think he stands in the dead center. Who is correct? I hope Mr Kristof isn't correct.
But of course where is "the middle" of the political spectrum. I think it's where I stand. But you will think it's where you stand. And Mr Kristof will think he stands in the dead center. Who is correct? I hope Mr Kristof isn't correct.
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Media is out of touch, not vice versa. They blew it, but liberals, typically, blame those who truly knew the electorate. Keep it up. We true conservatives love it. So long as you are so ignorant of us and our values, we will maintain our edge.
The Trump supporters did not need you, nor those you believed swayed them, to tell them what they thought or what to think. They knew another progressive agenda would keep them down. They are not nearly so clueless as the media still believe them to be.
The Trump supporters did not need you, nor those you believed swayed them, to tell them what they thought or what to think. They knew another progressive agenda would keep them down. They are not nearly so clueless as the media still believe them to be.
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One point - I'd rather the main stream news did not use the term "alt-right" as that is the term these extremists use to describe themselves. Instead let's call them what they are - neo-nazis.
The smoldering remains of The Fourth Estate are complicit in the relentless false equivalency of the most unqualified Presidential candidate in history vs one of the most prepared, dedicated public servants to ever apply for the job.
For nearly 18 months you did nothing but blare free advertising for the sociopathic Trump on your front pages, while remaining mum as Clinton once again had her character assassinated for venial sins.
And now you have the nerve to act contrite for helping to elect a cartoon character to lead The Free World?
You and all of your pundits can stuff a sock in it. Now you get to live in this unfolding nightmare with the rest of us.
For nearly 18 months you did nothing but blare free advertising for the sociopathic Trump on your front pages, while remaining mum as Clinton once again had her character assassinated for venial sins.
And now you have the nerve to act contrite for helping to elect a cartoon character to lead The Free World?
You and all of your pundits can stuff a sock in it. Now you get to live in this unfolding nightmare with the rest of us.
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Except when the mainstream media tries to report the erroneous news from these sites, it will just reinforce the beliefs of the alt-right followers.