Both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump have Zionist son-in-laws who are Jewish American scion Princes with convicted felon fathers. Hillary was going to welcome Benjamin Netanyahu to the White House along with the unfettered right of Israel to continue to interfere in American politics and elections along with accepting billions in American military arms welfare. Led by his son-in-law Trump was and is going to do likewise. Trump is also going to welcome Vladimir Putin to interfere in American politics and elections.
America does not need nor deserve an "ally" like Israel with 6.1 million Israeli Jews engaged in an illegal immoral occupation, blockade/siege, exile and 2nd class citizenship dominion over 6 million Christian Muslim Arab Palestinian Israelis. The Palestinians are denied their divine natural equal certain unalienable rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness by state sponsored colonial apartheid terrorism backed up by nukes.
With 80% of the worlds 16 million Jews evenly divided between America and Israel half of that number are safe and secure in a land that fulfills the Zionist dream. Neither a Zionist Jewish state of Israel nor an Islamist Muslim state of Palestine would be a civil secular plural egalitarian democracy.
The one-state solution is the moral fair just answer to the immoral two-state delusion. Israel can be either Jewish or democratic. It can not be both.
America does not need nor deserve an "ally" like Israel with 6.1 million Israeli Jews engaged in an illegal immoral occupation, blockade/siege, exile and 2nd class citizenship dominion over 6 million Christian Muslim Arab Palestinian Israelis. The Palestinians are denied their divine natural equal certain unalienable rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness by state sponsored colonial apartheid terrorism backed up by nukes.
With 80% of the worlds 16 million Jews evenly divided between America and Israel half of that number are safe and secure in a land that fulfills the Zionist dream. Neither a Zionist Jewish state of Israel nor an Islamist Muslim state of Palestine would be a civil secular plural egalitarian democracy.
The one-state solution is the moral fair just answer to the immoral two-state delusion. Israel can be either Jewish or democratic. It can not be both.
78
30% of American Jews aren't chopped liver.
I am appalled by the arrogance, the ignorance, the malleability and the intolerance exhibited by some of my brethren on the Left. Lenin would have called them “useful idiots,” the easily deluded who become willing accomplices in their own destruction.
If anyone has a history of anti-Semitism, racism and misogyny, it is Hillary Clinton.
The "intelligentsia" and the klepto-plutocrats never took Trump seriously, but always took him literally. Conversely, they always took Clinton seriously, but never literally, and therein lies the problem.
The underlying error: the belief that one's virtuousness is determined by one's policy positions rather than whether one has a moral core. This compartmentalization spills toxicity into–corrupts–the culture.
If mere identification with good policies makes one virtuous then those policies become iconographic, i.e., they just represent virtuousness. They don't necessarily do virtuous things. If Clinton's semantic parsing strips meaning from our words, Clinton's iconographic policies strip meaning from our society, systematically deconstructing it as a democracy….
It produces disturbing dissonance, often w/ dangerous consequences. The Clintons cloak their reflexive abuse of women w/ VAWA, cloak their complicity in Rwanda genocide w/ a few policy crumbs.
The Faustian bargain made long ago betrayed not only women, Jews and blacks but all of us. The devil is now getting his due.
I am appalled by the arrogance, the ignorance, the malleability and the intolerance exhibited by some of my brethren on the Left. Lenin would have called them “useful idiots,” the easily deluded who become willing accomplices in their own destruction.
If anyone has a history of anti-Semitism, racism and misogyny, it is Hillary Clinton.
The "intelligentsia" and the klepto-plutocrats never took Trump seriously, but always took him literally. Conversely, they always took Clinton seriously, but never literally, and therein lies the problem.
The underlying error: the belief that one's virtuousness is determined by one's policy positions rather than whether one has a moral core. This compartmentalization spills toxicity into–corrupts–the culture.
If mere identification with good policies makes one virtuous then those policies become iconographic, i.e., they just represent virtuousness. They don't necessarily do virtuous things. If Clinton's semantic parsing strips meaning from our words, Clinton's iconographic policies strip meaning from our society, systematically deconstructing it as a democracy….
It produces disturbing dissonance, often w/ dangerous consequences. The Clintons cloak their reflexive abuse of women w/ VAWA, cloak their complicity in Rwanda genocide w/ a few policy crumbs.
The Faustian bargain made long ago betrayed not only women, Jews and blacks but all of us. The devil is now getting his due.
42
"If his policies match his campaign rhetoric, Israelis, with time, will grow to like him."
Will grow to? The horde of riight wing nutter MPs surrounding Bibi have so ecstatically trumpeted Trump's election that Bibi has officially muzzled them. "The end of a two state solution", they chortle.
Yick. Doesn't bode well at all.
Will grow to? The horde of riight wing nutter MPs surrounding Bibi have so ecstatically trumpeted Trump's election that Bibi has officially muzzled them. "The end of a two state solution", they chortle.
Yick. Doesn't bode well at all.
57
I don't think the red states and the rust belt dwellers care about Jews. Israel did everything to undermine Obama. Thou shall reap what thou sow.... The seeds of hatred is now bearing fruits. There is no empathy or sympathy for any Jew (or anyone else) is this post Obama world. I am afraid that Israel will be more hated and isolated.
87
What is going to happen when the Iran deal is cancelled and a year later Iran has the bomb? What happens when nuclear war in the middle east breaks out as a result?
Maybe Isreal stikes first. Will American Jews be ok with millions of Iranian dead? Maybe they don't and both are wiped off the map. What then?
Maybe Isreal stikes first. Will American Jews be ok with millions of Iranian dead? Maybe they don't and both are wiped off the map. What then?
56
I'm not Jewish myself, but I can imagine how insulting Mr. Rosner's last statement would feel. He says: "What is going to happen if Israeli Jews see American Jews oppose President Trump at every step? It will make the Israelis question the Americans’ good judgment, and doubt their commitment to Israel’s security."
Mr. Rosen, do you mean Israeli Jews think of American Jews as idiots if they don't support a charlatan with no moral compass who is colluded with right wing extremists and there's a good chance his misguided policies will weaken the US and usher suffering for millions of people inside and outside the country?
American Jews are wise enough to know a bigot when they see one. As they say: "First he came for Mexicans, then he came for Muslims, ..."
Mr. Rosen, do you mean Israeli Jews think of American Jews as idiots if they don't support a charlatan with no moral compass who is colluded with right wing extremists and there's a good chance his misguided policies will weaken the US and usher suffering for millions of people inside and outside the country?
American Jews are wise enough to know a bigot when they see one. As they say: "First he came for Mexicans, then he came for Muslims, ..."
166
So why do the American Jews not like Trump? There is no evidence that Trump is going to negatively affect them in any way.
Unlike Israeli Jews, American Jews tend to hold problematic beliefs regarding cosmopolitanism and universalism. Their kin in Israel do not have the luxury to be naive idealists. That's something American Jews can learn from.
Unlike Israeli Jews, American Jews tend to hold problematic beliefs regarding cosmopolitanism and universalism. Their kin in Israel do not have the luxury to be naive idealists. That's something American Jews can learn from.
29
The Orthodox Jewish community in Brooklyn overwhelmingly voted for Trump
31
Without naming names, I am increasingly concerned with the emotional stability of some of Trump's inner circle. My fantasy is that when Trump was asked who he wanted in his cabinet he responded "Round up the usual suspects".
There is something about political campaigns that unsettles even the most calm individuals. In Trump's campaign, sanity seems to have been considered a liability and the normal limits of restraint have disintegrated.
Unless Trump is surrounded with individuals who can place a restraint on his scattered decision making ability and short attention span, I fear the rationality of his decisions may be greatly compromised.
I hope the reader will not have difficulty decoding this post!
There is something about political campaigns that unsettles even the most calm individuals. In Trump's campaign, sanity seems to have been considered a liability and the normal limits of restraint have disintegrated.
Unless Trump is surrounded with individuals who can place a restraint on his scattered decision making ability and short attention span, I fear the rationality of his decisions may be greatly compromised.
I hope the reader will not have difficulty decoding this post!
23
I'm an American Jew and I voted for Trump. I did so despite many of the misgivings I have about him as I felt he was most likely to be good for Israel. The Democrats are clearly not good for Israel. That includes traditional ones such as Clinton, and Progressive sorts such as Sanders.
Do I care more about Israel than the US? Well, maybe I do. I feel that Israel is a tiny sliver of a country in a vulnerable position, living in a bad neighborhood. It's surrounded by and even inhabited by many who would do it harm. Contrast that with the US; large, friendly neighbors and 2 oceans surrounding it.
The Dems and their fellow liberals have done more to harm Israel in the Obama years than any I can recall. Between the upsurge of antisemitism, often cloaked as ant-Zionism on college campuses, the continual diatribes in publications with liberal leanings, the Iran "deal", the disrespect shown Netanyahu when he came here to plead for us to not throw Israel under the bus as well as the push for a 2-state "solution" that would be suicidal for Israel. This is the fruit of the Democrats.
As for me, I no longer feel like a part of much of the American Jewish community, more intent on their liberal creds and not being overly Jewish than they are to care about the well being and survival of the only Jewish homeland and millions of our Jewish brothers and sisters who live there. So the Republicans have gained a new voter. That's how deeply I feel about this issue.
Do I care more about Israel than the US? Well, maybe I do. I feel that Israel is a tiny sliver of a country in a vulnerable position, living in a bad neighborhood. It's surrounded by and even inhabited by many who would do it harm. Contrast that with the US; large, friendly neighbors and 2 oceans surrounding it.
The Dems and their fellow liberals have done more to harm Israel in the Obama years than any I can recall. Between the upsurge of antisemitism, often cloaked as ant-Zionism on college campuses, the continual diatribes in publications with liberal leanings, the Iran "deal", the disrespect shown Netanyahu when he came here to plead for us to not throw Israel under the bus as well as the push for a 2-state "solution" that would be suicidal for Israel. This is the fruit of the Democrats.
As for me, I no longer feel like a part of much of the American Jewish community, more intent on their liberal creds and not being overly Jewish than they are to care about the well being and survival of the only Jewish homeland and millions of our Jewish brothers and sisters who live there. So the Republicans have gained a new voter. That's how deeply I feel about this issue.
48
Uh, I'm sorry. American and Israeli Jews are already divided. Thinking American Jews do not like NetanYahoo, or his Zionist, theocratic, fascist government.
99
Trump will “dismantle the disastrous deal with Iran.” Good luck with getting the billion and a half back dollars from the Iranians, while they use it to restart their nuclear program instead of buying Boeing Aircraft from us.
Any plans for several Trump golf courses on illegally occupied/confiscated Palestinian lands? Perhaps using some of the US tax payer's $3 Billion per year largess.
Any plans for several Trump golf courses on illegally occupied/confiscated Palestinian lands? Perhaps using some of the US tax payer's $3 Billion per year largess.
60
There is nothing illegal about the Israeli occupation of land captured in a "defensive war of necessity." Under International Law, Israel as the victorious belligerent of the 1967 "Six Day War," may retain captured land until possession is modified by peace treaty. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uti_possidetis
(Latin: As you possess, you may continue to possess.)
Note that under the 1979 peace agreement with Egypt, the Egyptian Sinai, comprising 91% of the land captured by Israel in 1967, was returned to Egyptian control in 1982. Likewise, the Post World War II occupations of Germany and Japan ended with peace treaties.
(Latin: As you possess, you may continue to possess.)
Note that under the 1979 peace agreement with Egypt, the Egyptian Sinai, comprising 91% of the land captured by Israel in 1967, was returned to Egyptian control in 1982. Likewise, the Post World War II occupations of Germany and Japan ended with peace treaties.
41
Let's not forget The Wall!
Israel believes in walls, and they have built some very effective ones. When Trump gets around to building his wall on the southern border, you can bet that Israeli consultants and contractors will be be involved. Because despite all the tired clichés about 50 foot walls and 51 foot ladders, walls actually do work!
Israel believes in walls, and they have built some very effective ones. When Trump gets around to building his wall on the southern border, you can bet that Israeli consultants and contractors will be be involved. Because despite all the tired clichés about 50 foot walls and 51 foot ladders, walls actually do work!
23
Yes, walls, or gated communities, do work to separate the "chosen ones" from the undesirables. I guess the old Berlin wall is the showcase for division and physical show of dominance and hatred for other human beings. Look what happened after Germany's wall came down and the strong unified country it became! I guess Israel and Trumpists prefer the pre "Tear Down This Wall" epoch.
And Mexico will ship more drugs into the US to pay for the wall.
And Mexico will ship more drugs into the US to pay for the wall.
7
Palestine belongs to its indigenous people not the European colonists/foreigners. Building a wall in Palestine is land theft by the Zionist foreigners.
37
Israel built the wall to stop Palestinians from murdering Israelis.
There was a great decline in the number of Israelis killed after the wall was built.
There was a great decline in the number of Israelis killed after the wall was built.
34
How could anyone serious consider any data from J Street as reliable. They are anti-Zionist fifth columnists. I couldn't possibly consider this piece as worthy of consideration unless the data came from a neutral source.
I am unaware of reliable data that suggests Israeli Jews preferred Clinton.
Finally, whether Nixon cared for Jews or not, there would be no Israel and maybe no world (secondary to nuclear war) if Nixon didn't go 'all in" for Israel during that conflict.
Please, you can have your own opinion, but not your own facts.
I am unaware of reliable data that suggests Israeli Jews preferred Clinton.
Finally, whether Nixon cared for Jews or not, there would be no Israel and maybe no world (secondary to nuclear war) if Nixon didn't go 'all in" for Israel during that conflict.
Please, you can have your own opinion, but not your own facts.
11
It's a story so old it barely has the strength to be told.
When those that have been denied rights and safety, who have been oppressed, even killed, for no other reason than a particular identity, finally get some power, they have an unfortunate tendency to take revenge, and recycle many, if not most, of the worst habits of their oppressors.
We've seen this happen in Africa in Rwanda/Burundi. We've seen it happen in the Middle East with various Islamic factions. And we've seen it happen with Israel.
American Jews have therefore understandably been leery of the behavior of Jewish politicians, who they see as not having learned the lesson of the oppressed becoming the oppressors. And mostly secular American Jews are increasingly alarmed by the lack of secular influence in Israeli politics and social life.
Secular American Jews are generally liberal and supportive of inclusion. They sense that the lack of those values in the majority of Israeli Jews--the Israeli liberal peace and inclusion movements have become increasingly marginalized over the years--mean the Israeli experiment will not end well, and that makes them nervous for their own future.
When those that have been denied rights and safety, who have been oppressed, even killed, for no other reason than a particular identity, finally get some power, they have an unfortunate tendency to take revenge, and recycle many, if not most, of the worst habits of their oppressors.
We've seen this happen in Africa in Rwanda/Burundi. We've seen it happen in the Middle East with various Islamic factions. And we've seen it happen with Israel.
American Jews have therefore understandably been leery of the behavior of Jewish politicians, who they see as not having learned the lesson of the oppressed becoming the oppressors. And mostly secular American Jews are increasingly alarmed by the lack of secular influence in Israeli politics and social life.
Secular American Jews are generally liberal and supportive of inclusion. They sense that the lack of those values in the majority of Israeli Jews--the Israeli liberal peace and inclusion movements have become increasingly marginalized over the years--mean the Israeli experiment will not end well, and that makes them nervous for their own future.
26
For centuries, Palestinians oppressed Jews & now Palestinians oppress Israelis.
Stabbing Israelis is oppression. Running over Israelis is oppression. Blowing up Israelis in buses is oppression. Launching rockets & mortars at Israelis is oppression. Blowing up pizza restaurants & night clubs & hotels is oppression.
Stabbing Israelis is oppression. Running over Israelis is oppression. Blowing up Israelis in buses is oppression. Launching rockets & mortars at Israelis is oppression. Blowing up pizza restaurants & night clubs & hotels is oppression.
32
I believe that the world's finest hour in the Twentieth Century was the creation of the State of Israel.
Sounds crazy, no?
It isn't.
After 2000 years of expulsions, persecutions, pogroms, holocausts, the world saw fit to return the Jewish people to their ancient home land.
Imagine that. When else has that happened in human history?
And yet, is Mr. Rosner right that fewer than 10% of American Jews see Israel as a priority? Personally I don't believe it.
A few months back a Jewish Professor wrote an op-ed quoting his father as saying that if Jews weren't victims of Hitler "they would have been the very best Nazis."
I was disgusted by that statement, but understand it to mean that Jews are exceedingly loyal to the country they live in - perhaps even if it conflict with their own interests.
I don't understand Israeli Jews, as does Mr. Rosner, but, as an American Jew who voted for Clinton, I think I understand American Jews.
So my message to American Jews is this:
Cherish and fight for the values of liberty and opportunity that make America the greatest country on Earth.
But never forget who you are.
Sounds crazy, no?
It isn't.
After 2000 years of expulsions, persecutions, pogroms, holocausts, the world saw fit to return the Jewish people to their ancient home land.
Imagine that. When else has that happened in human history?
And yet, is Mr. Rosner right that fewer than 10% of American Jews see Israel as a priority? Personally I don't believe it.
A few months back a Jewish Professor wrote an op-ed quoting his father as saying that if Jews weren't victims of Hitler "they would have been the very best Nazis."
I was disgusted by that statement, but understand it to mean that Jews are exceedingly loyal to the country they live in - perhaps even if it conflict with their own interests.
I don't understand Israeli Jews, as does Mr. Rosner, but, as an American Jew who voted for Clinton, I think I understand American Jews.
So my message to American Jews is this:
Cherish and fight for the values of liberty and opportunity that make America the greatest country on Earth.
But never forget who you are.
27
To Steven who posted "the world saw fit to return the Jewish people to their ancient home land."
Historians including Jewish historians & now DNA studies show that the 20th century colonists of Palestine (the Ashkenazi) are not descended from Semites but from Europeans who converted to Judaism in the Roman Empire era + the Khazars who converted from paganism c750 CE. eg.
1/ “Historian & Israeli former minister of Education Ben-Zion Denur called Khazaria the mother of one of the greatest Diasporas-of Israel in Russia, Lithuania & Poland”
2/ Abraham Polak, founder of Univ of Tel Aviv`s dept`t of Mid East History wrote that it was an unlikely thesis that the Jews in the Khazarian kingdom originated in Israel/ Palestine ie. they had no Abrahamic descent.
3. Ben Gurion wrote that there was no exile after the Romans put down the revolts of the 1st & 2nd centuries & that most of the Jews converted to Islam in the 7th century to avoid paying the tax on all non-Muslims.
4/ A 2013 genetic study found: "Ashkenazi Jews do not stem from Hebrews" http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1208/1208.1092.pdf. ie They are not from the Near East while of course Palestinians are Semites.
5/ Jewish historian Josephus, wrote that by the time of the destruction of the 2nd Temple in 70 CE, as many as 6 million Jews were living in the Roman Empire outside Israel & only 500K lived in Judea. He lived thru the revolt.
6/ etc.
Palestine belongs to its indigenous people not the European colonists.
Historians including Jewish historians & now DNA studies show that the 20th century colonists of Palestine (the Ashkenazi) are not descended from Semites but from Europeans who converted to Judaism in the Roman Empire era + the Khazars who converted from paganism c750 CE. eg.
1/ “Historian & Israeli former minister of Education Ben-Zion Denur called Khazaria the mother of one of the greatest Diasporas-of Israel in Russia, Lithuania & Poland”
2/ Abraham Polak, founder of Univ of Tel Aviv`s dept`t of Mid East History wrote that it was an unlikely thesis that the Jews in the Khazarian kingdom originated in Israel/ Palestine ie. they had no Abrahamic descent.
3. Ben Gurion wrote that there was no exile after the Romans put down the revolts of the 1st & 2nd centuries & that most of the Jews converted to Islam in the 7th century to avoid paying the tax on all non-Muslims.
4/ A 2013 genetic study found: "Ashkenazi Jews do not stem from Hebrews" http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1208/1208.1092.pdf. ie They are not from the Near East while of course Palestinians are Semites.
5/ Jewish historian Josephus, wrote that by the time of the destruction of the 2nd Temple in 70 CE, as many as 6 million Jews were living in the Roman Empire outside Israel & only 500K lived in Judea. He lived thru the revolt.
6/ etc.
Palestine belongs to its indigenous people not the European colonists.
24
There is every reason to question Israel's values and morality, and the values and morality of Donald Trump have been on display for decades. He will assist them in destroying any chance that Israel will remain a Jewish state.
12
"What is going to happen if Israeli Jews see American Jews oppose President Trump at every step? It will make the Israelis question the Americans’ good judgment, and doubt their commitment to Israel’s security."
That is garbage. US Jews can (and are)still be committed to Israel's security while opposing the racism and fascism and climate change denyism of Trumpism. Steve Bannon in the WH is good for Jews? Good for Israel? The author's judgment is what should be questioned.
That is garbage. US Jews can (and are)still be committed to Israel's security while opposing the racism and fascism and climate change denyism of Trumpism. Steve Bannon in the WH is good for Jews? Good for Israel? The author's judgment is what should be questioned.
65
As an American Jew and supporter of Israel I feel no obligation to support the right wing government of Israel. In fact I resent greatly the idea that Jewish identity and allegiance to Judaism rests on the support of a right wing ultra orthodox agenda. Sadly, much of this schism is rooted in the division between the orthodox/ultra orthodox and the rest of us Jews.
I remember back in the early 70's going to a demonstration in support of new housing in Queens NY. The new housing would be in a predominantly Jewish area of Queens and would bring in mostly blacks and hispanics. Many of us were the typical liberal NY Jews and we greatly outnumbered the counter group. Until, a long line of orange buses arrived with Hebrew lettering on the side mostly from the Five Towns and the Rockaways. I was shocked and embarrassed.
This is the same way I feel when Orthodox Jews in Israel tied to the right wing government, make racist and dismissive comments about the rights of others, resort to demonizing their opposition including the press and set up a denominational test for being a true Jew.
Such thinking including the religious test for legitimacy is what Trump stands for. I for one will always oppose such thinking and actions whether it be in America of israel.
I remember back in the early 70's going to a demonstration in support of new housing in Queens NY. The new housing would be in a predominantly Jewish area of Queens and would bring in mostly blacks and hispanics. Many of us were the typical liberal NY Jews and we greatly outnumbered the counter group. Until, a long line of orange buses arrived with Hebrew lettering on the side mostly from the Five Towns and the Rockaways. I was shocked and embarrassed.
This is the same way I feel when Orthodox Jews in Israel tied to the right wing government, make racist and dismissive comments about the rights of others, resort to demonizing their opposition including the press and set up a denominational test for being a true Jew.
Such thinking including the religious test for legitimacy is what Trump stands for. I for one will always oppose such thinking and actions whether it be in America of israel.
150
I find this article totally insulting. I have never voted for someone because they are Jewish. I vote for the candidate. My black friends do not vote because someone is black. My parents never voted for someone because they were Jewish. I am tired of reading all of this stereotyping. Fortunately I live in a upper middle class neighbor in NJ that is a mixture of all race and religions.. I voted for Hillary as I had no other choice My prime concern is the United States and this country elected a anti-Semite misogynist sociopath. Shame on them all.
120
"Will"? He already has long ago, just as he has civility in America. Donald Trump is the Great Destroyer.
14
I am not convinced of the validity of Mr. Rosner's analysis. The ratios voting Democrat/Republican have not changed that much in recent years: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/how-the-faithful-voted-a... .
Maybe American and Israeli Jewish divides will grow, but there was already significant tension: http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/03/10/are-american-jews-turning-away-from-... .
Are American Jews going to oppose Trump at every step? That tends to homogenize the American Jewish population in ways that may not reflect current trends. (I say this as a Cinton supporter.)
Maybe American and Israeli Jewish divides will grow, but there was already significant tension: http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/03/10/are-american-jews-turning-away-from-... .
Are American Jews going to oppose Trump at every step? That tends to homogenize the American Jewish population in ways that may not reflect current trends. (I say this as a Cinton supporter.)
7
the proper response to an Outrage, is to be Outraged !
2
What Israelis need to understand is that we Jewish Americans live here. We are part of American society. Our children live here. Our primary responsibility is to ensure a welcoming and safe American society for them. The point that is unspoken here, is that when it comes to Israeli society, the average Israeli wants a multicultural, open and accepting society, just like we do here in the US.
The problem lies when the average Israeli only sees the Jewish community in the US as an extension of what they need from the US, not a community. unto ourselves. Yes we support Israel. Yes we want a safe and secure Israel. But all 6 million of us are not packing up lock, stock, and barrel and making Aliyah. Not gonna happen. Maybe, just maybe, when Israelis understand that, they will understand that our responsibilities are to our children's future first and foremost.
We can't help it that the party which purports to support Israel unfailingly is also the Party whose social platforms the majority of Jewish Americans find unacceptable. And now that Party has been taken over by the Jew-hating altRight. And yes we are well aware of the Jew-hating altLeft of the DNC, we are not stupid. FWIW-simply because a party supports the settlements doesn't mean these "settlement supporters" are not driven by antisemitism, or religious supremacism either.
We in the US are supposed to understand Israel's fears. Guess what we do. Maybe its time Israelis returned the favor.
The problem lies when the average Israeli only sees the Jewish community in the US as an extension of what they need from the US, not a community. unto ourselves. Yes we support Israel. Yes we want a safe and secure Israel. But all 6 million of us are not packing up lock, stock, and barrel and making Aliyah. Not gonna happen. Maybe, just maybe, when Israelis understand that, they will understand that our responsibilities are to our children's future first and foremost.
We can't help it that the party which purports to support Israel unfailingly is also the Party whose social platforms the majority of Jewish Americans find unacceptable. And now that Party has been taken over by the Jew-hating altRight. And yes we are well aware of the Jew-hating altLeft of the DNC, we are not stupid. FWIW-simply because a party supports the settlements doesn't mean these "settlement supporters" are not driven by antisemitism, or religious supremacism either.
We in the US are supposed to understand Israel's fears. Guess what we do. Maybe its time Israelis returned the favor.
52
Mr. Rosner, you seem to parrot the dogma of 'J street' and the 'liberal American Jew'. You, as most columnists are doomsayers when you do not get your way.
As you have often erred in the past, perhaps you might like to wait a while to actually see what Mr. Trump does.
Please try to remember that others have opinions divergent from yours, many of which have come to fruition as opposed to your positions.
As you have often erred in the past, perhaps you might like to wait a while to actually see what Mr. Trump does.
Please try to remember that others have opinions divergent from yours, many of which have come to fruition as opposed to your positions.
31
I was so turned off by mention of Debbie Wasserman-Schultz that I almost forgot to finish this piece. She's no expert on this Jew who grew up in Texas and lives in New York City not Florida and isn't rich but part of the struggling middle class and who supported Bernie Sanders while Debbie was pretending to be honest at the DNC while holding her thumb on the scale. (Those Florida Jews by the way went for Clinton in the Primary when they had a perfectly good progressive Jewish boy from Brooklyn to vote for.) But I did read it and it makes sense in that Jews in the United States think about a lot of things, for example social justice, when they vote, with Israel coming in a distant something. But speaking of social justice. Bernie Sanders, Debbie. Bernie Sanders.
91
Don't be silly. The Prime Minister of Israel will always congratulate the American President-elect and attempt to cultivate a good relationship with him. And the Israeli electorate is about as divided in its political preferences as the American public. The embassy won't be moved to Jerusalem because an adult will explain to Trump why that's a bad idea, and neither American Jews nor Israelis will much care. Israel will continue to be the only real ally of the U.S. in a region filled with undesirables and instability, and someone will explain to Trump why it is necessary to continue to support the ally. There wasn't going to be any more or less progress on a two state solution than there would have been if Clinton had been elected. American and Israeli Jews will not have a falling out over Trump.
7
This article in its essence embodies some of the deeply held prejudices that will make it so difficult for Israeli and American Jews to come together. Rosner states that Israel "views Jerusalem as its capital." Am I now to assume that even what has been called the new city of Jerusalem, and withing the pre-1967 borders of Israel, is not Israel's capital, even if viewed that way by nearly every Israeli from the far right to the far left? What other country on Earth has the legitimacy of its chosen capital city not only questioned, but allows even for the legitimacy of such a question? As for the other issues that divide Israeli and American Jews, it seems to me that it stems from the differences in every day reality faced by these two groups. The biggest problem for most American Jews is whether or not the lines at Zabar's will be too long this Sunday morning. Israeli Jews have a few weightier issues on their hands from Hamas rockets out of Gaza to Iranian nukes, now postponed but not prevented.
20
Whose historic home land ? In 1918 , Ben Gurion & Y. Ben Zvi (PM for 2 decades & 2nd pres of Israel respectively) coauthored a history of Israel in which they agreed with professional historians that there was no exile of Jews from Roman Palestine in the 1st or 2nd century AD. They agreed that most of the populace (90%+) stayed in place and that a majority of them converted to Islam in the 7th century. It was only after the Palestinians revolted in 1929 &1936-39 against the loss of THEIR land to foreigners that these 2 premier Zionists decided that ethnic cleansing was needed & OK. Eg. In 1948 Ben Gurion directed the Zionist militias in ethnically cleansing 425 villages & 12 urban centers of their indigenous people creating 750,000 refugees. This evil as continued to this day.
As Shlomo Sand establishes in his intern`l best seller “The Invention Of The Jewish People” the 20th century colonists are mostly the descendants of converts to Judaism from the 200 BC-300 AD era around the Roman Empire ,when Judaism was an open religion & competed with Christianity for converts ,plus the conversion of the Khazars c750-1150 AD that spawned the Ashkenazi who became the founding colonists in the 20th century. The Palestinians have much more “ancient Judean DNA” than colonists who share only a religion (Judaism) but very little Near East DNA.
It is not the US people that support this injustice it is the AIPAC controlled Congress.
As Shlomo Sand establishes in his intern`l best seller “The Invention Of The Jewish People” the 20th century colonists are mostly the descendants of converts to Judaism from the 200 BC-300 AD era around the Roman Empire ,when Judaism was an open religion & competed with Christianity for converts ,plus the conversion of the Khazars c750-1150 AD that spawned the Ashkenazi who became the founding colonists in the 20th century. The Palestinians have much more “ancient Judean DNA” than colonists who share only a religion (Judaism) but very little Near East DNA.
It is not the US people that support this injustice it is the AIPAC controlled Congress.
9
Netanyahu divided us already by the chutzpah he showed President Obama. A president who supported Israel both militarily and in the UN. Israel still has the orthodox support but that's it.
20
It's all about the 'ism' of choice. Cuban-Americans can love the country of their heritage without embracing the island's choice of communism. German-, Italian-, and Japanese-Americans could love their countries of historic origin before and during the WW II without loving the lurch to fascism. Iranian-Americans, the home soil choice of Islamism. So why are Jewish-Americans generally expected to, and why do so many, embrace ethnocentric Israeli Zionism? We're force fed the idea of the Jewish State though it seems time and again that Israel's real religion is the Golden Idol of Zionism, an ideology of choice for most Israelis and many in the Jewish diaspora, but a belittling imposition on a native population of non-Jews, many of whom are second class citizens in their own land, or refugees awaiting a return to their homeland. Israel has surely become its own worst enemy. By opting for Zionism all of us have been betrayed. Zionists have worked feverishly, for well over a century, to undermine the birthright of Palestinians. By so doing, Zionist Jews have undermined their own. A Trump presidency, with all it portends, will most certainly exacerbate an already untenable situation.
11
Jews had been persecuted for centuries in majority-gentile countries. Even when not actively persecuting the Jews, the majority-gentile countries refused to give refuge to the Jews when they needed it. There would have been no Holocaust if majority-gentile countries would have allowed in Jewish refugees who were escaping from the Nazis. The idea of Zionism was that Jews would return to their homeland & have a majority-Jewish country because majority-gentile countries had failed to provide safety for the Jews.
What's happened to the Palestinians is because of Palestinians' attacks on Jews, not because of Zionism.
What's happened to the Palestinians is because of Palestinians' attacks on Jews, not because of Zionism.
17
Alan,
Zionism is as legitimate a form of nationalism as its Palestinian counterpart, but in rejecting the right of Israeli Jews to self-determination and majority rule in a state of their own, Palestinians reject the original two-state partition by the United Nations, under UNGAR 181, providing for two states, "one Arab and one Jewish" in the language of the Resolution. The founding documents of both the P.L.O. and Hamas reject the U.N. partition. If the only way in which Israelis may retain any part of their ancient homeland, is to keep all of it, Palestinian initiated wars make that a necessity.
When the Palestinians recognize the rights of Israelis to self-determination, the Israelis will reciprocate in kind, but until that happens, the occupation is a matter of Israel's national survival!
Zionism is as legitimate a form of nationalism as its Palestinian counterpart, but in rejecting the right of Israeli Jews to self-determination and majority rule in a state of their own, Palestinians reject the original two-state partition by the United Nations, under UNGAR 181, providing for two states, "one Arab and one Jewish" in the language of the Resolution. The founding documents of both the P.L.O. and Hamas reject the U.N. partition. If the only way in which Israelis may retain any part of their ancient homeland, is to keep all of it, Palestinian initiated wars make that a necessity.
When the Palestinians recognize the rights of Israelis to self-determination, the Israelis will reciprocate in kind, but until that happens, the occupation is a matter of Israel's national survival!
15
J Street is dead for the time being. Get used to it. Assimilationist Jews who want to disown Israel, as the Ochses and Sulzbergers did in the 1940s, should realize that the Jerusalem we speak of at the Seder is a living, breathing place.
Still, we cannot accept Donald Trump's pandering to neo-Nazis and the Klan. His support of Israel may be aimed more at his evangelical supporters and his son-in-law, to the exclusion and demonization of American Jews. That is not a trivial concern.
Still, we cannot accept Donald Trump's pandering to neo-Nazis and the Klan. His support of Israel may be aimed more at his evangelical supporters and his son-in-law, to the exclusion and demonization of American Jews. That is not a trivial concern.
18
The election of Donald Trump means that Bibi Netanyahu will be determining American Foreign Policy toward Israel. Netanyahu's opposition to the Iran Nuclear deal is increasingly discredited with each passing day of Iranian compliance. Trump's insidious attacks on Iran nuclear deal, underscore his total ignorance of American foreign policy. Any thought that the United States could be an "honest broker" between the Palestinians and Israel is dead. The continued expansion of illegal Jewish settlements on the West Bank, opposed by Obama, will not be opposed by the oblivious Trump. The reckless and completely unnecessary move of the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem, favored by Trump, would be a metaphorical stick in the eye of the Palestinians, and could produce the kind of violence not seen since the last Intifada.
15
The author assumes that an American Jew whose priority is Israel would vote for DJT. Not so. An American Jew whose priority is continuation of Netanyahu's policies might, but not one who believes that the only way for Israel to survive is in a Jewish and democratic state, which requires a two state solution. One of the major reasons I voted for HRC was her devotion to the long term interests of Israel, but as a Jewish and democratic state. Many Israelis similarly think that the current PM is going the wrong way. One of the unfortunate reasons for DJT's victory is the inability of voters to appreciate nuance, and unfortunately too, the author has fallen into that trap.
11
Roberta posted "I voted for HRC"Hillary Clinton's devotion to Israel"
1/ HRC`s AIPAC speech was a symphony of craven, delusional ...
www.slate.com/..."Hillary Clinton’s keynote speech at AIPAC’s annual meeting Mar 21 2016 however, was more debased than it needed to be, promising that under her administration, Israel will be spared even the mild rebukes it has suffered under President Obama. A symphony of pandering"
As president, I would continue the pursuit of direct negotiations. And let me be clear—I would vigorously oppose any attempt by outside parties to impose a solution, including by the U.N. Security Council.” ..."She spent significantly more time railing against the “alarming” Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions Movement which is gaining traction on college campuses nationwide."
2/ “She sounds like Netanyahu”: Hillary Clinton goes extra hawkish in ...
www.salon.com/...Hillary Clinton: AIPAC's Panderer-in-Chief | The National Interest nationalinterest.org/feature/hillary-clinton-aipacs-panderer-chief-15622
Hillary Clinton speaks at AIPAC conference - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtfxZT_lqv8
Yes , AIPAC is Hillary`s co-owner/funder along with the Banksters.
1/ HRC`s AIPAC speech was a symphony of craven, delusional ...
www.slate.com/..."Hillary Clinton’s keynote speech at AIPAC’s annual meeting Mar 21 2016 however, was more debased than it needed to be, promising that under her administration, Israel will be spared even the mild rebukes it has suffered under President Obama. A symphony of pandering"
As president, I would continue the pursuit of direct negotiations. And let me be clear—I would vigorously oppose any attempt by outside parties to impose a solution, including by the U.N. Security Council.” ..."She spent significantly more time railing against the “alarming” Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions Movement which is gaining traction on college campuses nationwide."
2/ “She sounds like Netanyahu”: Hillary Clinton goes extra hawkish in ...
www.salon.com/...Hillary Clinton: AIPAC's Panderer-in-Chief | The National Interest nationalinterest.org/feature/hillary-clinton-aipacs-panderer-chief-15622
Hillary Clinton speaks at AIPAC conference - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtfxZT_lqv8
Yes , AIPAC is Hillary`s co-owner/funder along with the Banksters.
4
For most American Jews, "progressive" politics are the new god.
8
Notwithstanding a Jewish daughter and son-in-law, Trump the candidate for President trafficked with a number of anti-Semites. This is widely known.
85
The Obama administration just committed every man, woman and child in the US to pay $12,000 to Israel over the next 10 years without any strings attached. Illegal settlements? No problem. 60 years of military occupation of Arab lands? No problem. No base rights, no mutual defense agreement, no reciprocity for this largess? No problem.
I am not sure that Trump sees that we get a fair deal here.
I am not sure that Trump sees that we get a fair deal here.
33
Every time Israel offers to end the occupation, the Palestinians say “No!”
Even Prince Bandar bin Sultan of Saudi Arabia (certainly not a Zionist) said that Arafat’s refusal to accept the January 2001 offer was a crime. Thousands of people would die because of Arafat’s decision & not one of those deaths could be justified.
Even Prince Bandar bin Sultan of Saudi Arabia (certainly not a Zionist) said that Arafat’s refusal to accept the January 2001 offer was a crime. Thousands of people would die because of Arafat’s decision & not one of those deaths could be justified.
16
The military aid package for Israel is in reality a jobs program for U.S. defense contractors; it requires the phasing out of funds for development of Israeli weapons. There are no illegal settlements, as Palestinians favor a "one to the exclusion of the other" policy, rather than a compromise resulting in two independent states. That doctrine is incorporated in the founding documents of both the P.L.O. and Hamas. Article 13 of the Hamas Covenant explicitly rejects all forms of non-violent conflict resolution in favor of perpetual war against Israel. Read it at: http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp
When the Palestinians are ready and willing to negotiate the compromises necessary for a two-state solution, they will find Israeli ready and willing to negotiate, but until that happens, nothing need change!
When the Palestinians are ready and willing to negotiate the compromises necessary for a two-state solution, they will find Israeli ready and willing to negotiate, but until that happens, nothing need change!
15
Exit polls are meaningless in this election. I suspect Trump came close to winning the Jewish vote. There's a lot of anti-Semitism in the Democratic Party disguised as anti-Israel. It's peeling off voters. If he did not, he will in four years.
12
Exactly. The last time I voted Democrat was for Obama's first term; no more.
5
Unlike Bernie Sanders, who'd been my first choice for President, I can easily see Trump turning a blind eye to Israel's horrendously careless, if not criminal, treatment of Palestinians, and it's a major reason I nearly didn't vote for Trump.
12
What about Palestinians' horrendous, criminal, "collective punishment" of Israeli civilian non-combatants in numerous stabbing, shooting and vehicle attacks? The deliberate targeting of non-combatants is recognized as a "war crime" under the 1949 Geneva Conventions.
While, I reject Trump's advocacy of the torture and killing of terrorists' family members, also a "war crime," I do enthusiastically support Israel's right to "individual, or collective self-defense," as recognized under Article 51 of the United Nations Charter.
While, I reject Trump's advocacy of the torture and killing of terrorists' family members, also a "war crime," I do enthusiastically support Israel's right to "individual, or collective self-defense," as recognized under Article 51 of the United Nations Charter.
12
The majority of Jews do not have an allegiance to Israel. President Elect Trump has a Jewish son it law. I am sure he will have excellent relations with foreign leaders and it that makes some liberal American Jews uneasy, I don't think anyone else (besides them) will care.
2
It's past time for America to wish Israel well and bid her adieu, regardless of who is in the White House. "Stand behind me while I spit in your eye" may be a compelling attitude to Netanyahu and his supporters, but we Americans don't gain much from it.
13
The whole world benefits from Israel’s advances in science, medicine & technology, but we Americans also benefit from our access to intelligence from MOSSAD which is considered one of the world’s best intelligence agencies & from being able to pre-position military supplies in Israel in case we want to intervene in the Middle East & from Israeli expertise in developing weapons systems. We gave F-15's to Israel & Israel improved them, 700 modifications. Thanks to Israel, we now have better warplanes. Also, Israel is a laboratory & the Israelis are guinea pigs in learning how a democratic society can deal with terrorism. Israel is on the front line battling terrorism. The terrorists say “First the Saturday people (Jews) then the Sunday people (Christians.) Israel is the barrier island protecting the West.
16
He will support Israel on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays and oppose it the rest of the week. President Obama made a mess of the Iran deal, but Trump is capable of doing much worse.
7
American Jews like other groups are not all of one mind. The anti-Israel ostensibly Jewish group J Street does not speak for many Jews and was pro Hillary. Jews for Trump strongly supported him in the election. President-elect Trump has spoken out strongly with his pro Israeli policies and his desire to move the embassy to Jerusalem. President elect Trump's Jewish daughter and son-in-law will make wonderful ambassadors for pro Israeli policies. I wish them Godspeed.
8
As the daughter of an Israeli mother and an American father, I am capable of hosting a nuanced point of view. I am capable of appreciating a candidate on some issues, while disagreeing with a candidate on other issues. I believe Israeli and American Jews should be capable of the same.
Otherwise, I don't think it will be Trump dividing the two communities, but our own inability to listen to the concerns of others.
Otherwise, I don't think it will be Trump dividing the two communities, but our own inability to listen to the concerns of others.
45
don't presume to know what jews in america think about Trump. in fact, some of us are jewish americans, not american jews. word order is important.
6
"[Rapprochement of Israel with Trump] will make [American Jews] doubt Israel’s values and morality." Well it's about time these doubts surfaced - Israel has behaved poorly for decades now, never more than under Netanyahu.
12
Israelis already have good reason to question Americans' good judgement and there is more than ample reason for Israelis to question the commitment of the American Jewish community to Israel's security or to Israel.
They did not need the election of Mr. Trump or the defeat of Mrs. Clinton to prove this.
Often it is enough to read the NYT or its comments section.
They did not need the election of Mr. Trump or the defeat of Mrs. Clinton to prove this.
Often it is enough to read the NYT or its comments section.
15
The polls were wrong as is the premise of this article. Many many Jewish people simply won't say they supported trump. And while the j street crowd is vocal and liberal there are thousands of Jews in America who quietly disagree. The Truth about how American -of all backgrounds- really feel on so many issues from Israel to terrorism is hidden from even casual dinner party conversations in all but the most private of spaces.
23
Here in VT I'm surrounded by "safety pin adorned" liberals who voted for Clinton having not had the opportunity to vote for Sanders. Voters such as myself, especially Jewish ones, who voted for Trump, pretty much lay low. Bite my tongue and let them grieve together. I'm not one to rub it in their faces. We are out here though........
So strange how far too many Jews worry about a person of color or a Moslem being targeted by racists but don't protest when Jews are targeted on college campuses all over the country these days. Why no safety pins for them?
So strange how far too many Jews worry about a person of color or a Moslem being targeted by racists but don't protest when Jews are targeted on college campuses all over the country these days. Why no safety pins for them?
13
How many people really care? Not me, and I'm an America Jew. If the media, including this paper, spent as much time on the plight of poor whites as they do on Jewish American-Jewish Isreali relations, transgender issues, and dozens of other issues that are of little interest to most people, I don't think Trump would have risen to power.
18
Try not to speak in absolutes. Many US Jews support Israel. J Street polls are biased and worthless, like your lame generalizations. Trump will bring peace to the mid east, or Israel's real enemies will be obliterated. Gaza will fall first, with a coordinated Israel Egypt attack that will not look coordinated. The Saudi's terror funding will magically dry up. Then the terrorists will be on notice and picked off, one area at a time.
6
Here's a tidbit from the alt right websites _ of Trump's 4 adult children 3 are married to jews and 1 is in long term relationship with a jew. Several of his grandchildren are fully jewish (one of his daughters converted when she got married). Both his company and his campaign had many (or mainly) high level jews in management. You'd just think in an article like this that might get one sentence.
12
You can bet AIPAC already told Trump not to worry about the sentiments of American Jews- they'll handle that for him. In the meantime, just make sure U.S. taxpayer dollars continue to pour into the State of Israel- at the tune of $3 Billion dollars a year for the next 10 years.
43
Some millennial American Jews, unaffiliated, totally secular, strong liberal values, little to no knowledge of Jewish history or religious texts, may not consider Israel's security needs as a major election issue. Older ones still do, but few of us voting had a clear idea of which candidate is more supportive of Israel, so that wasn't a strong factor in voting. This article makes me wonder if Mr. Rosner is looking forward to a break between Jews here and there. The issues that irk the aforementioned younger American Jews, who also don't grasp Israel's existential threats or how the "controlling" Israeli Chief Rabbinate/religious status quo came to be, have nothing to do with whoever is elected to the presidency. It's the voice of alienated, and assimilating, Jews, not just in America but across the world, who are shunning what is most Jewish in their minds - the Jewish state. That is pitiful.
22
I too believe that is correct. The Jewish People Policy Institute would like nothing better than a sharp division between Jews of the USA and Jews of Israel. But that's not going to happen if we properly educate our young on the vital need of the Jewish state for a people that's been persecuted for centuries.
“In the Middle Ages, Jews were hated for their religion. In the 19th and 20th centuries, they were hated for their race. Now they are hated for their nation"
“In the Middle Ages, Jews were hated for their religion. In the 19th and 20th centuries, they were hated for their race. Now they are hated for their nation"
13
Trump doesn't care about anything other than Trump.
Expect Israel to be a loser just like the rest of us in the Trump administration.
Expect Israel to be a loser just like the rest of us in the Trump administration.
13
As we now know, Debbie Wasserman Schulz did her part to keep a Jew from getting the Democratic nomination and perhaps the White House. On the social justice scale, Sanders clearly out-scored Clinton. It is mildly inexplicable why she was re-elected by her constituents.
7
American Jews are, and always have been liberals. The Israelis have a nation- one surrounded by enemies. Their practical considerations include a presumption they will have to fight someone, and they are not nearly as charitable toward others as safe, affluent, high minded American Jews have opted to be.
9
Well the question will also be what will Israelis Jews think if they see their brethren in the US become victims of the Alt Right which are now painting Swastikas and feeling emboldened in regards to their anti-Semitism.
3
You seem to not grasp that anti-Semitism is a a good thing when it's directed against Jews who don't idolize the present Israeli government. In the eyes of "loyal" Israelis, those revellious of Jews are not truly Jews--they are considered traitors.
My guess is that Israeli Jews will not only cheer on the Alt-Right, they'll send them baskets filled with cash.
My guess is that Israeli Jews will not only cheer on the Alt-Right, they'll send them baskets filled with cash.
3
I have long worried about this coming schism; it has happened before in Jewish history.
1
There's something you're missing in your analysis of the difference between Israelis and American Jews. American Jews have a lot more reason to care about domestic policy from Washington than do Israelis. As a result, a major subset of American Jews could support Trump's likely policy towards Israel, but find that their distaste for his domestic agenda outweighs it.
If you want to understand this phenomenon, try talking to a few people who will rant on and on about how evil George W. Bush was, but tack on at the end "but he's the best friend Israel ever had."
If you want to understand this phenomenon, try talking to a few people who will rant on and on about how evil George W. Bush was, but tack on at the end "but he's the best friend Israel ever had."
5
this percent said this, that percent said that, exit polls show this, hey pollsters, get a new job your FIRED. you seem not to know what your talking about. stop quoting you ridiculous pols.do you even know anyone who doesn't hang up on them?
3
Guess Rosner has not heard that it is possible to have an opinion about each particular policy. Such speculative scare tactics and all the Chicken Little hand wringing that goes is another example of how the mainline media failed to hold Trump's feet to the fire and fed the beast because it was good for business.
7
American Evangelicals voted for trump because he could secure them a right wing Supreme Court. They voted for a misogynistic, racist, philanderer, and sexual predator. Does character matter? I think it matters much more than people realize. But time will tell. There are two kinds of friends. The kind of friend who let's you know when you've gone too far, and the kind that eggs you on when you are thinking of doing something rash and foolish. Trump is the second kind of friend. Character matters, and the destructive results of his decisions will be felt around the world for years to come. .
27
I don't agree with the conclusions of this piece.
Israel first concern is their existence, and if they believe Trump is an asset in that fight, that's fine.
Our opposition to Trump vis-a-vis Israel will likely not be materially different than any other member of the GOP elected as president.
GOP support for Israel is baked into the GOP for geopolitical and other more mundane and ridiculous realities, and Trump is not likely to upset that equilibrium.
I don't judge Israel's "morality" as much as I do their judgement, but then again it's easy to make a call like that from the cheap seats over here.
Israel first concern is their existence, and if they believe Trump is an asset in that fight, that's fine.
Our opposition to Trump vis-a-vis Israel will likely not be materially different than any other member of the GOP elected as president.
GOP support for Israel is baked into the GOP for geopolitical and other more mundane and ridiculous realities, and Trump is not likely to upset that equilibrium.
I don't judge Israel's "morality" as much as I do their judgement, but then again it's easy to make a call like that from the cheap seats over here.
8
too many conclusions from opinion.
no judgement on this article since it seems mostly rhetorical.
no judgement on this article since it seems mostly rhetorical.
1
Do not generalize that American Jews were Obama supporters. There were many that were not.
5
Trump said he would make allies pay there fair share. Let's see how the $38,000,000,000 stans up. Watch Donald fold to the Jewish money. American Jews don't count unless they drink the Israeli koolaid.
4
This column is ill-founded. Trump's offensive attributes are no more offensive to Jewish Americans than they are to the entire population. The degree to which they mistrust Clinton is no less pronounced than that of others. Jewish American enthusiasm for Obama waned after the first term and diminished further during the second term. Debbie Wasserman is representative only of some Jewish Americans. A fortiori, the same can be said of J Street. Jewish Americans are not a monolith. Half the population, including Jewish Americans, disliked Clinton more than they did Trump. The other half disliked Trump more than they did Clinton. What is obvious is that most people voted against a candidate rather than for one. The result of this election will have little, if any, impact on the relationship between those Jewish Americans to whom Israel is important and Jewish Israelis. This column is reflective of the author's own political preferences which have impelled him to see a rift between Jewish Israelis and Jewish American that is not there.
24
The monetary and political support proffered by American Jews indicate they indeed prioritize Israel quite high in determining which candidate they will vote for. Why else would the candidates trip over each other to prove who loves Israel best. Although there is a diversity of opinion in the Jewish community as to what is in Israel's interest, in the end AIPAC rules.
6
I agree based on the fact that AIPAC has twice been rated as the most feared lobby in DC by the staffs of members of Congress.
2
So tired of the constant media efforts to divide us into groups. Makes for good clickbait and easy marketing and a deceptive certainty about people--but how did that work in analyzing the election? Why are so many journalists so quick to leap down the exact same road as before, the one that pointed to absolutely incorrect predictions?
As to here: First, 30% of American Jews voted for Trump. What about them? Why are they invisible? And of those who voted for Clinton, many did so unwillingly.
People are not monolithic entities defined by the label the elites bestow on them. You write, "If his policies match his campaign rhetoric, Israelis, with time, will grow to like him. American Jews, meanwhile, will seethe." Really? Or do you mean "my American Jewish friends and pals?"
How on earth can you know what American Jews will think of Trump when you have no idea what he will even do? Have you interviewed a large group of Jews? And you write with such certainty. It's mystifying.
Unless the media once again is trying to go down he road of telling us all what to think -- is that why you are so certain? Please, just accurately report what we think and do. Maybe you can start by talking to the 30% of American Jews who voted for Trump.
As to here: First, 30% of American Jews voted for Trump. What about them? Why are they invisible? And of those who voted for Clinton, many did so unwillingly.
People are not monolithic entities defined by the label the elites bestow on them. You write, "If his policies match his campaign rhetoric, Israelis, with time, will grow to like him. American Jews, meanwhile, will seethe." Really? Or do you mean "my American Jewish friends and pals?"
How on earth can you know what American Jews will think of Trump when you have no idea what he will even do? Have you interviewed a large group of Jews? And you write with such certainty. It's mystifying.
Unless the media once again is trying to go down he road of telling us all what to think -- is that why you are so certain? Please, just accurately report what we think and do. Maybe you can start by talking to the 30% of American Jews who voted for Trump.
7
Zionism conceived of Jews having their own land and Jews taking charge of their own affairs. Zionism, in the sense of attracting American Jews to live in a Jewish State has been an utter failure. As an alternative to American Jewish emigration to Israel, American Jews can be pro-Zionist by lobbying the American government for political and material support.
Mr. Rosner is quite right in writing that American Jews have different interests from the current Israeli government and perhaps from Israelis in general. The current Israeli government politicized all Americans relationships with Israel when Prime Minister Netanyahu engineered a Republican invitation to speak to Congress, where he excoriated the President Obama's foreign policy. This only exacerbated a situation where many in the American Jewish community, a profoundly Democratic demographic, had political problems with Netanyahu's Republicans' domestic policies. Public education, a strong social safety net, a true separation of state and church are very dear to many Jewish Americans. I would guess that American Jews are far more concerned with Republican threats to entitlement programs than supporting Jewish settlement in the Occupied Territories.
Perhaps Israelis should realize that Zionism meant Israel taking charge of its own foreign policy and taking responsibility for its relationship with the United States. American Jews may believe that their vision of a strong America is in Israel's best interests.
Mr. Rosner is quite right in writing that American Jews have different interests from the current Israeli government and perhaps from Israelis in general. The current Israeli government politicized all Americans relationships with Israel when Prime Minister Netanyahu engineered a Republican invitation to speak to Congress, where he excoriated the President Obama's foreign policy. This only exacerbated a situation where many in the American Jewish community, a profoundly Democratic demographic, had political problems with Netanyahu's Republicans' domestic policies. Public education, a strong social safety net, a true separation of state and church are very dear to many Jewish Americans. I would guess that American Jews are far more concerned with Republican threats to entitlement programs than supporting Jewish settlement in the Occupied Territories.
Perhaps Israelis should realize that Zionism meant Israel taking charge of its own foreign policy and taking responsibility for its relationship with the United States. American Jews may believe that their vision of a strong America is in Israel's best interests.
43
"What is going to happen if Israeli Jews see American Jews oppose President Trump at every step? It will make the Israelis question the Americans’ good judgment, and doubt their commitment to Israel’s security."
In a much deeper sense, which Rosner only rarely seems to understand, our Israeli brethren, in fighting real monsters, have themselves become monsters.
Israelis haven't shown much good judgment for too many years! Rosner embodies this failure.
In a much deeper sense, which Rosner only rarely seems to understand, our Israeli brethren, in fighting real monsters, have themselves become monsters.
Israelis haven't shown much good judgment for too many years! Rosner embodies this failure.
147
My father-in-law (Israeli Jew) and my rabbi (American Jew) love Trump. They are not monsters. They tell me stories about the monsters that have killed Jews over the years and who live to kill Jews. Like ISIS/Daesh, Hamas and Fatah love death more than life. Israel has repeatedly offered peace and land and monsters have tried to destroy her. Israel is no monster. But monsters since Time Immemorial claim that Jews are the problem and this still, regrettably has traction.
1
The Israelis have not become monsters. They are held to much higher standards than citizens of most other countries. Any nation, subject to the kind of scrutiny that rule of law, freedom of speech, and democracy provide, shows its every mistake and every brutality in sharp focus. This is not the case for most other countries. The article above is a fair-minded comparison of the political views of American Jews and Israeli Jews. The former live in a relatively safe country; the latter are besieged by enemies.
29
I am a non-practising unaffiliated Jew of advanced years. I have a strong conviction that Israel must survive, not for religious reasons, but for the
preservation of a worthy people who over thousands of years have made
major contributions to civilization. I hope and trust they will continue to do so.
I have my doubts. Israel's political leaders seem blind to world history.
Stubborn injustice toward a defeated Palestinian people will eventually erode
Israel as a state. Palestinians, like other defeated peoples will forever
be defiant. Israel is a client state of the U.S.A. and as such is skating on thin ice. American politics can turn against them one day, and then, alas, comes a terrible time for both people.
I believe an imposed peace by the United Nations with American and European leadership is desperately needed.
preservation of a worthy people who over thousands of years have made
major contributions to civilization. I hope and trust they will continue to do so.
I have my doubts. Israel's political leaders seem blind to world history.
Stubborn injustice toward a defeated Palestinian people will eventually erode
Israel as a state. Palestinians, like other defeated peoples will forever
be defiant. Israel is a client state of the U.S.A. and as such is skating on thin ice. American politics can turn against them one day, and then, alas, comes a terrible time for both people.
I believe an imposed peace by the United Nations with American and European leadership is desperately needed.
14
Now as Israel is the biggest recipient of American aid of any country with Egypt the second most to prevent it from turning Gaza into a military staging area against Israel, what will happen with the mayor's desire. I assume he isn't the only Trump supporter who wants and expects this. What happens when they don't see him doing what they want.