So if Trump wins all of Hillary's supporters are moving to Canada? How many are moving to Mexico, it's a rhetorical question.
3
Can someone please tell me what is "Alt Right?" Does that include all people who fall under the "conservative" spectrum? When that term is used it automatically dismisses anyone who is not a liberal or a progressive. I urge people who believe anyone conservative does not have a valid point of view to remember that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. This is not "Group Think Nation."
3
This is the usual opinion piece fed to the NYT readership, counting on blind allegiance to the Democratic candidate (obvious misnomer in this context), and the dumbing down of American Society to paint a picture that relies on half-truths and fantasies to push its agenda.
One important aspect that's ignored, is the fact that mainstream Republicans disavowing Trump is a positive for Trump supporters, not a negative. Mainstream Democrats and Republicans have been dragging the country down for decades, jointly, acting in the sole interest of their corporate masters and donors. Trump has spearheaded dissent towards this state of affairs from grassroots voters concerned for their country. Sanders enjoyed a similar following for the same reasons, but corrupt old HRC & her minions made sure he was eliminated from the race, leaving a trail of evidence of wrongdoings behind, immediately obliviated by the NYT. Now we have Corporate interests on one side, and the opposing interests of concerned people on the other. Sorry, but anyone paying attention the past few decades has the material needed to understand why corporate interests should stop dictating our every policy, and now. But well-intentioned but deluded Liberals insist that Hillary has been fighting for our interests, and that she would somehow be a brilliant president. My contention is that mainstream politicians need to know the people is paying attention, and that going down the road to third world status isn't the way to go.
One important aspect that's ignored, is the fact that mainstream Republicans disavowing Trump is a positive for Trump supporters, not a negative. Mainstream Democrats and Republicans have been dragging the country down for decades, jointly, acting in the sole interest of their corporate masters and donors. Trump has spearheaded dissent towards this state of affairs from grassroots voters concerned for their country. Sanders enjoyed a similar following for the same reasons, but corrupt old HRC & her minions made sure he was eliminated from the race, leaving a trail of evidence of wrongdoings behind, immediately obliviated by the NYT. Now we have Corporate interests on one side, and the opposing interests of concerned people on the other. Sorry, but anyone paying attention the past few decades has the material needed to understand why corporate interests should stop dictating our every policy, and now. But well-intentioned but deluded Liberals insist that Hillary has been fighting for our interests, and that she would somehow be a brilliant president. My contention is that mainstream politicians need to know the people is paying attention, and that going down the road to third world status isn't the way to go.
3
The Cuban refugee's cousin, saying “We already lost a country, and we’re on the verge of losing another."
That's perspective for you. It may be true for Cuba, but I do not recognize that this country "belongs" to me, or to anyone else, but it seems like the people who do, are always complaining that they "lost" it.
As Oscar Wilde might say, "That looks like carelessness."
That's perspective for you. It may be true for Cuba, but I do not recognize that this country "belongs" to me, or to anyone else, but it seems like the people who do, are always complaining that they "lost" it.
As Oscar Wilde might say, "That looks like carelessness."
5
I contrasted the Trump rally in Sarasota (actually any Trump rally) with the Democratic rally I attended here in St. Petersburg yesterday. Featuring Vice President Biden, and state Democrats, along with Jimmy Buffet, it was so positive and forward leaning. Of course who wouldn't be positive-outside, on the water at sunset, listening to Jimmy Buffet and seeing young families dancing together. Simply put though, the contrast could not be more stark. A positive message for the future versus a scary longing for the past.
10
The comments of the Treasonous Trump supporters quoted here are living proof of the ignorance of those people. The comments of the Cuban American woman and the woman who thinks Mrs. Clinton is evil, are just endemic of the intelligence level of the people to whom Treasonous Trump appeals. Though there is no rational basis for people to "hate" Mrs. Clinton, but since Treasonous Trump told me them she's evil, the deplorables take it as gospel. The demagogic rhetoric in which Treasonous Trump has engaged since he glided down his gilded escalator to "save America," has been swallowed hook, line and sinker by his base, uneducated white voters. There is no way this fool (Treasonous Trump) could or ever would be able to "Make America Great Again." One make great "again" that which is already great. I say this with great trepidation, but I would like to see Treasonous Trump win the election so that his ignorant base will see that instead of voting for someone who wanted to "fix" America, all they did was vote for a racist, xenophobic and misogynistic carnival barker who was only out for himself. P. T. Barnum described Treasonous Trump's supporters to a "T" when he said there's a sucker born every minute. Not only are they deplorable, they're suckers as well. That must be a terrible burden to bear.
9
I have some advice for these bitter, hateful and totally delusional sore losers. Move to Russia so you can have the kind of leader you pine for. As we say in Georgia, "Delta is Ready When You Are."
9
"Leftover signs and empty popcorn tubs litter the floor."
I left a DFL rally on Sunday and people were throwing their garbage into bins and sorting out their recyclables. The dichotomy of how we treat our surroundings is a perfect metaphor for how each side cares for society and for others.
'Mr. Sanders’s parting message was, “Without you, I am nothing.” Mr. Trump’s message closing argument so far has been, “Without me, you are nothing.”'
Again, Democrats are about the people. Trump is about himself. That says it all to me!
The key difference I witnessed was that the room full of DFL staff and volunteers were energized and excited but very positive and warm to each other. I see nothing but anger and hate coming from the Right these days. Who would wan to be a part of that??
I left a DFL rally on Sunday and people were throwing their garbage into bins and sorting out their recyclables. The dichotomy of how we treat our surroundings is a perfect metaphor for how each side cares for society and for others.
'Mr. Sanders’s parting message was, “Without you, I am nothing.” Mr. Trump’s message closing argument so far has been, “Without me, you are nothing.”'
Again, Democrats are about the people. Trump is about himself. That says it all to me!
The key difference I witnessed was that the room full of DFL staff and volunteers were energized and excited but very positive and warm to each other. I see nothing but anger and hate coming from the Right these days. Who would wan to be a part of that??
7
“What have they done?” she asked. “We gave them a Republican Senate and we gave them a Republican Congress, and they have let Obama do everything that he wanted.”.....How can you talk to someone who has absolutely no idea of what has been going on for the last six years. No wonder she is voting for Trump she is completely disconnected from any earthly reality.
18
Trump's Florida supporters should start trying to develop Sherlock Holmesian powers of deduction.
If the GOP's Orwellian master of double-speak, Frank Luntz, is, on this very op-Ed page, imploring all of us to come together in a spirit of healing and reconciliation, then Mr. Luntz must be virtually certain that Candidate Trump is on the path to defeat.
Why else would Mr. Luntz, an ever so partisan advisor to the GOP and to Fox News, scribble so bathetic a plea for mercy from the victor, soon-to-be-President Hillary Clinton?
If the GOP's Orwellian master of double-speak, Frank Luntz, is, on this very op-Ed page, imploring all of us to come together in a spirit of healing and reconciliation, then Mr. Luntz must be virtually certain that Candidate Trump is on the path to defeat.
Why else would Mr. Luntz, an ever so partisan advisor to the GOP and to Fox News, scribble so bathetic a plea for mercy from the victor, soon-to-be-President Hillary Clinton?
5
It's scary that this man, who has more flaws than fingers on the two hands, should command such a large, commited following. Partly it looks like an obvious case of political tribalism - us versus them - and partly it's an open call to racism. The right wing, goaded by an army of charlatan drumbeaters is up in arms. Seems they still have not gotten over the fact that a black candidadate, Obama, beat their two blue blooded, white nominees in the past two succeive presidential races. Birtherism and obstructionism were born out of their feelings of defeat and frustration. So in the current cycle, their anger has found a new outlet in the persona of Trump, who is all too eager to blow out aloud GOP's dog whistles without a feeling a sense of guilt or shame.
Should Hillary win today, only God knows what this group would do, or what would become of their hatred. Whatever turn it takes, one thing is for sure though, the inolerance that GOP has unleashed would not be easily contained by its present crop of lackluster leadership. Nor do they seem capable of harnessing it for any politically acceptable purposes. More and more they look like the rider whose foot is caught in the saddle of a mount raring to hit the traces.
Should Hillary win today, only God knows what this group would do, or what would become of their hatred. Whatever turn it takes, one thing is for sure though, the inolerance that GOP has unleashed would not be easily contained by its present crop of lackluster leadership. Nor do they seem capable of harnessing it for any politically acceptable purposes. More and more they look like the rider whose foot is caught in the saddle of a mount raring to hit the traces.
4
The Trump supporters we see here are indeed deplorables. It's not because they don't deserve a fair stake in this country, it's not because they do not have legitimate gripes that should be addresses, they're deplorables because of their willful ignorance in addressing their own issues. They will not investigate why the Republican Party exploits them, they wear their know-nothingness as a badge of honor, they band together to protect their ignorance and celebrate Rump because he flatters their stupidity. That, in my opinion, is why they are deplorables. They're all emotion and no brains, raw nerve ends inflicting their pain on everyone. They are an example of American individualism gone sour due to a their allergy to education. She should have been more prudent in going public with the name, but Mrs. Clinton was spot on when she called them a "basket of deplorables." Ugh. They're a drain on this country. And while I'm at it, we need to thank the Republican Party for giving them legitimacy, pandering to them for what, for votes to stay in power in order to kiss the behinds of the Kochtapuses, their true constituents.
6
Guarantee that if you gave these folks uniforms and gas chambers (they already have guns), they would gladly step around their cute little children and grandchildren to do some good ole mass murdering. Trump can take credit for unleashing their unfocused hatred but he can't claim to have steeped their souls in it. It took decades of alt-right FOX propaganda, and a major party that hates American democracy to do that! Goebbels would be so proud.
7
Cathy Borden said everyone she talks to is voting for Mr. Trump. “That’s why you can’t go by those polls.”
This is a perfect example of the myopic, solipsistic, ignorant minds of Trump supporters. Just because "everyone" she talks to is voting for Trump - what is that, maybe 100 to 300 people? - there's about 235,000,000 people in this country eligible to vote. Good grief, what small minds they have.
This is a perfect example of the myopic, solipsistic, ignorant minds of Trump supporters. Just because "everyone" she talks to is voting for Trump - what is that, maybe 100 to 300 people? - there's about 235,000,000 people in this country eligible to vote. Good grief, what small minds they have.
13
How many people do you know that vote for Trump?
(HRC supporter)
(HRC supporter)
2
This has been the most eye opening, incredible and mind numbing election cycle in my history. The voters for one candidate believe;
1) there is huge electoral fraud
2) the senate and house let Obama do what he wanted
3) the polls are rigged, just look at Facebook & the Trump crowds
4) the election is rigged
5) the economy has gotten worse under Obama
All of the above statements are easily refuted but not to the ears of people who receive their news and facts from alt-right websites and "news organizations" and from like minded people on social media.
The truth is;
1) electoral fraud has been disproved except where it concerns the organized efforts of Republicans to disenfranchise the voting rights of black people
2) Never in history has the senate and house absolutely refused to work with a president to the extent they did with Obama
3) the polls were great when they showed Trump ahead
4) I believe 31 states have their voting sites and regulations controlled by Republican state administrations
5) Obama took an economy on the verge of a depression (remember those fears) which was caused by Republican policies, and brought back over 15 million jobs, lowered unemployment to 4.9% from almost 10% and brought the first real increase in wage rates since...the 1990's (the last Democratic President)
But these are just truth and facts. Means nothing to people who are overcome with fear that white privilege, white power and white majority control seem to be slipping away.
1) there is huge electoral fraud
2) the senate and house let Obama do what he wanted
3) the polls are rigged, just look at Facebook & the Trump crowds
4) the election is rigged
5) the economy has gotten worse under Obama
All of the above statements are easily refuted but not to the ears of people who receive their news and facts from alt-right websites and "news organizations" and from like minded people on social media.
The truth is;
1) electoral fraud has been disproved except where it concerns the organized efforts of Republicans to disenfranchise the voting rights of black people
2) Never in history has the senate and house absolutely refused to work with a president to the extent they did with Obama
3) the polls were great when they showed Trump ahead
4) I believe 31 states have their voting sites and regulations controlled by Republican state administrations
5) Obama took an economy on the verge of a depression (remember those fears) which was caused by Republican policies, and brought back over 15 million jobs, lowered unemployment to 4.9% from almost 10% and brought the first real increase in wage rates since...the 1990's (the last Democratic President)
But these are just truth and facts. Means nothing to people who are overcome with fear that white privilege, white power and white majority control seem to be slipping away.
16
And to think Florida will be global warming's first US victim....irony.
15
For which they will blame Obama!
7
These Trump supporters are, I'm sorry to say, truly deplorables. Clinton was absolutely right.
11
"“What have they done?” she asked. “We gave them a Republican Senate and we gave them a Republican Congress, and they have let Obama do everything that he wanted.”
Wow...is this a low information voter...or what?
Wow...is this a low information voter...or what?
14
Dear Janice,
Sorry to disillusion you.....like Virginia & Santa Claus story.....Trump will not be your Santa....sorry to tell you that.If you want to believe a snake oil salesman....we can't persuade you otherwise.....it is very sad that you have been totally sold on the Hillary is evil propaganda.....no Janice...your Santa is not real.
Sorry to disillusion you.....like Virginia & Santa Claus story.....Trump will not be your Santa....sorry to tell you that.If you want to believe a snake oil salesman....we can't persuade you otherwise.....it is very sad that you have been totally sold on the Hillary is evil propaganda.....no Janice...your Santa is not real.
7
If Trump wins Florida, it's because the Democrats put up such a flawed, intensely-disliked candidate, that she couldn't win over such an obvious weasel.
4
I think it is interesting that Trump supporters just dismiss those in the Republican leadership that have disavowed Trump. How is Trump supposed to get things done when many in his own party think he is not fit? I think Trump support HAS to be smaller than the polls show.
4
Your source for Trump's "ultimatum" to his voters on Sunday is another reporter's Twitter feed?
I'm sorry, but no. This is the NYT, not US Uncut.
I'm sorry, but no. This is the NYT, not US Uncut.
5
Not only that Ann, but I believe her quoted statements supposedly from Bernie and trump are simply fabrications.
2
After I've spent over 50 years of fighting for people's rights in this country, (civil rights, peace, women's rights, farm-workers' rights, worker's trade union rights, and others), I'm looking at the work of my entire lifetime being rolled back in 3 months to the 1950s, with Segregation, Jim Crow laws, women barred from most jobs except secretary, nurse, or teacher (most confined to stay home and be baby farms and homemakers for the "man of the house"), abortion totally illegal, white Christian men basically running their families, communities, businesses and the entire government, Joe McCarthy - a government run on Eisenhower's Secretary of State, John Foster Dulless's, s motto of "... somehow we find it hard to sell our values, namely that the rich should plunder the poor."
If Trump wins, it will be because Americans (and the Democratic Party establishment leaders) are to blitheringly stupid to fight for and preserve the rights that Americans have worked, in war and peace, for 240 years to create and advance. The will get what they deserve - GOOD AND HARD.
As for me, I'm moving back to the Earth if Trump wins. I have already qualified for all of the immigration points Canada requires, bring a highly valuable skill set and only need to appear at the border for the final border interview to get permanent residence back in the 21st Century in Canada.
If my fellow Americans,are so easily scammed by the professional scammer, Trump, so be it. [sigh...]
If Trump wins, it will be because Americans (and the Democratic Party establishment leaders) are to blitheringly stupid to fight for and preserve the rights that Americans have worked, in war and peace, for 240 years to create and advance. The will get what they deserve - GOOD AND HARD.
As for me, I'm moving back to the Earth if Trump wins. I have already qualified for all of the immigration points Canada requires, bring a highly valuable skill set and only need to appear at the border for the final border interview to get permanent residence back in the 21st Century in Canada.
If my fellow Americans,are so easily scammed by the professional scammer, Trump, so be it. [sigh...]
3
If you believe half of what you wrote then you are just as ignorant as 'these people' in Florida.
4
The lefts real fear that the worst candidate in 100 years, Hillary Clinton, will miss out on her coronation is coming through in this article. The lefts hate for the average American is coming through in this article. When the left screams hate monger-er, racist, misogynist, and the rest of their litany of insults you know they are petrified of losing and they should be. It takes an amazing amount of willful ignorance to be a Hillary cult member.
9
I like how you had to make it explicit that you meant HRC instead of the more logical Trump after talking about the worst candidate in 100 years. Shows an appropriate level of insecurity.
4
I thought the headline read: "If Trump Wins Florida, It's Because of THESE People"
Now that I've read it I realize it reads: "If Trump Wins Florida, It's Because of These PEOPLE!"
"How could he lose, if you look at Facebook?" asks Dave Kraft in the article.
Dave, friend me and I'll let you look at MY feed.
Now that I've read it I realize it reads: "If Trump Wins Florida, It's Because of These PEOPLE!"
"How could he lose, if you look at Facebook?" asks Dave Kraft in the article.
Dave, friend me and I'll let you look at MY feed.
4
How about this - why don't Democrats try to reach out to these voters, hear what they have to say and maybe try to come to a compromise with them, instead of referring them to as "these people".
Democrats are just a guilty for creating a divide among class and race lines.
Democrats are just a guilty for creating a divide among class and race lines.
12
Dennis, they are not listening.....the snake oil salesman has come to town and "entertained" them.....sold them a bag of "medication" that not only doesn't heal them but leaves them with the multiple side effects of bile,hate,racism and delusions.
9
Reach out to them? They don't listen! Trump supporters believe lies (voter fraud, corruption, etc.) and refuse to hear, read or listen to anything that provides facts. Dems have been trying to compromise for years with the Party of NO but as they stated out loud when Obama was elected - and regarding the Supreme Court nominee - they refuse to do business with him or the American People.
6
Me thinks that Florida will go blue.
5
Hopefully all the pundits will be wrong and Donald will pull out a victory and put the ex pres and his sort of wife out to pasture where they belong. The ordinary people will have voted and spoken and put the 1% in their place of secondary citizen for a change !
4
Isn't Donny part of the 1%?
2
Remember in the 70s and most of the 80s when you could tune in to "Donahue" and he'd have some author exposing corporate malfeasance, or even an economics nerd with all kind of hints to save bucks on household expenditures? When the discussion is 'when did we turn wrong?' I tend to think about the dawn of the 90s and poor Phil fading to chairs thrown on "Geraldo" and hair weaves pulled out on "Springer."
We have been calculatedly dumbed down to receive deliberate, uncouth conflict as entertainment, to confuse what's noisy and immediate for what's genuinely substantial. We have allowed unchecked, willful stupidity to where it believes it deserves respect and an equal public bullhorn. There may be at least two sides to every story, but often only one can withstand factual examination and logic, and it is too often not the loudest side.
And the greatest current beneficiary of all this is Donald Trump.
We have been calculatedly dumbed down to receive deliberate, uncouth conflict as entertainment, to confuse what's noisy and immediate for what's genuinely substantial. We have allowed unchecked, willful stupidity to where it believes it deserves respect and an equal public bullhorn. There may be at least two sides to every story, but often only one can withstand factual examination and logic, and it is too often not the loudest side.
And the greatest current beneficiary of all this is Donald Trump.
4
Dumb and dumber. The man and his fans. Be grateful not to be either.
5
I am Republican but not particularly enamored by Trump. He wasn't my 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc., choice, but I voted for him today.
The patronizing sanctimonious and sneering condescension expressed by the author of this article (and many of her ilk at the NYT) makes me feel so much better about my vote.
Thank you!
The patronizing sanctimonious and sneering condescension expressed by the author of this article (and many of her ilk at the NYT) makes me feel so much better about my vote.
Thank you!
14
How should thoughtful, rational people feel about fellow citizens who ignore so many facts in favor of a candidate who is manifestly unfit? The vote of a vengeful person is a threat. We are tying to improve this country, not destroy it. The Trump campaign has been ceaselessly negative. There is nothing to admire about the candidate, his message, or his loathsome running mate. Therefore, there's nothing to admire about his supporters.
14
Other than hubris over the calling-out of Trump for what kind of person he is, what positive factors about that candidate led you to vote for him- which policy proposals, leadership credentials, service to others credentials, governance credentials- in short, what is it you voted FOR, not against?
9
And do you think that, now you've voted for Trump, you'll no longer be bombarded with patronizing sanctimony and sneering condescension, RS?
Wait for it.
Wait for it.
4
They could easily have named the Trump rally circuit "The ignorance Tour". The collective stupidity exhibited is appalling and frightening.
13
Segregated North Florida was a good place to come of age in the early fifties, if you were a white kid like me. Know it or not (and many don't) folks interviewed in your article are voting for resegregation (to include Trump's bete noir Latinos). In the event Clinton wins, a major effort to wean Trump's supporters off his Kool Aid is a must.
The tip off about Florida's results is probably visible in the Hispanic surge. If Florida were truly only a one percent state (per the polls) Hillary Clinton probably would have come here at midnight instead of going to North Carolina, where she supposedly leads by two percent. Presumably, the Democrats internal polling tells them Clinton has a comfortable lead in Florida (of course, that's what Romney's pollsters told him about the country).
So if Dems do really well in Florida, what's wrong with the polls? Short answer, predicting Trump will get 20% of the Latino vote. Maybe much of that 20% is anti-both candidates and will vote for a third person. If so, the Latino vote becomes a tsunami and not just in Florida.
Many Trump voters are decent people, blinded by a a charismatic leader (see Italy and the rise of Mussolini). To understand Trump, my wife says, read Elmer Gantry or see the Oscar winning version of Sinclair Lewis's novel about a corrupt, abusive preacher who hornswoggled his followers. Not sure what kind of political therapy will work, but demonizing them, as this article comes close to doing, won't help.
The tip off about Florida's results is probably visible in the Hispanic surge. If Florida were truly only a one percent state (per the polls) Hillary Clinton probably would have come here at midnight instead of going to North Carolina, where she supposedly leads by two percent. Presumably, the Democrats internal polling tells them Clinton has a comfortable lead in Florida (of course, that's what Romney's pollsters told him about the country).
So if Dems do really well in Florida, what's wrong with the polls? Short answer, predicting Trump will get 20% of the Latino vote. Maybe much of that 20% is anti-both candidates and will vote for a third person. If so, the Latino vote becomes a tsunami and not just in Florida.
Many Trump voters are decent people, blinded by a a charismatic leader (see Italy and the rise of Mussolini). To understand Trump, my wife says, read Elmer Gantry or see the Oscar winning version of Sinclair Lewis's novel about a corrupt, abusive preacher who hornswoggled his followers. Not sure what kind of political therapy will work, but demonizing them, as this article comes close to doing, won't help.
8
"Decent" people don't hate everyone who doesn't look or think like they do, and they prefer to live their lives based on facts, not fiction.
6
I fear for our wonderful USA if. Trump wins!
3
Yeah, there is a very large contingent of Trumpsters here in Sarasota on Monday. They showed their anger alright: they were not allowed to bring in their beer or alcoholic beverage of choice. And no smoking. And no guns/ammo. So forth and so on.
6
What? At the rally, right?
2
Yes! can you believe it! Some attendees were a little miffed that Trump did not thank the Sarasota ALT for bestowing two Statesmanship Awards on him a couple years back. What a hoot.
2
Mencken-You will never go broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.
9
I'm interested to know what the final vote is in Manhattan, where I was born and raised. Mr Trump is, was, and always will be, a clown in the eyes of New Yorkers. A source of outrageous amusement.
I hope he will be back at his old job on wednesday, making New York City great again.
I hope he will be back at his old job on wednesday, making New York City great again.
8
I hope that people like Ms. Kraft do leave the Republican party. They clearly do not comprehend what would happen if they elected an ignoramus authoritarian President. They crave a reality show government and now that they have had a taste of it, they won't settle for anything else. The Republican party may be able to salvage itself but I doubt it. The leadership is too tainted by Trump. They are cowards who chose to avoid leading and ran with the ignorant masses instead.
4
These two comments just about say it all: 1) Everyone she talks to is voting for Mr. Trump. “That’s why you can’t go by those polls.”
2) Dave Kraft, in line with his wife, Ruth, wrestled with this dissonance. “How could he lose, if you look at Facebook?”
Everyone I know is voting for HRC - does that mean she's going to win? Ummm no. Facebook? Really Dave? There are no words....
Considering Florida's governor appears to have instructed the DEP not to use 'global warming' or 'climate change' in any communications, I'm not surprised at the ignorance of much of the state's electorate. If that is true, how about the US government refuse to give Florida any more federal dollars after natural disasters? Enough is enough. Bite the hand that feeds you and eventually you will stop being fed.
2) Dave Kraft, in line with his wife, Ruth, wrestled with this dissonance. “How could he lose, if you look at Facebook?”
Everyone I know is voting for HRC - does that mean she's going to win? Ummm no. Facebook? Really Dave? There are no words....
Considering Florida's governor appears to have instructed the DEP not to use 'global warming' or 'climate change' in any communications, I'm not surprised at the ignorance of much of the state's electorate. If that is true, how about the US government refuse to give Florida any more federal dollars after natural disasters? Enough is enough. Bite the hand that feeds you and eventually you will stop being fed.
11
The three astonishments of this election: 1. Hatred; 2. The Reality Divide; 3. The Rolling Stones' "You Can't Always Get What You Want," as a campaign theme song.
2
"There's so much voter fraud", "we already have lost our country", "the republican senate gave everything Obama wanted", "everyone I know is voting for trump, he can't lose" and on and on and on. What bizarro world do they live in? Uneducated, scared, racist, - that's the republican tent. The dems may win the presidency for at least three election cycles. Can't wait to hear the "post-mortem" yet again form the republican party.
7
Yes the woman in Florida who hates "evil Hillary". I can see why she is consumed with hatred and evil - and is fearful - she is seeing it in herself every time she opens her mouth and looks in the mirror. It is with her everywhere she goes - it is her - that is evil and filled with hatred. Not HRC.
5
This article should reconfirm to all why we need a country with a much
better educational system for ALL and a healthcare system available to
everyone. What are we without smart, healthy people.......his supporters
are downright scary.
better educational system for ALL and a healthcare system available to
everyone. What are we without smart, healthy people.......his supporters
are downright scary.
4
One more comment regarding all the awful comments here. Keep in mind that this is an opinion page so it's doubtful that Roller walked into the rally with an open mind or, for that matter, bothered to gather thoughts from a range of attendees. I'm sure if some of these commentators hopped off their high horses, they would find many of the attendees of this rally are not all that different from you or me.
8
No, the writer is spot on. I have too many relatives and friends who are low-information, not inclined to do their own research, stuck with their party line and too full of fear and anger to look critically at their beliefs and assumptions, so they depend on others to supply them with their talking points and reasons for what they believe. Some have more formal education than others, but all are stubbornly holding their stance like a buoy in the middle of the ocean, waiting for someone to save them. Even my sister- who is generally more liberal, more inclined to do research before a major purchase, and certainly not stupid- has been going with the more easily available media reports while trying to make up her mind. I reminded her how to do research- yeah it is work, and you have to read a lot and really think about things, but heck she's retired and has the time. She is supposed to call me and let me know what she found out and finally decided. I am sure she will make the right decision.
1
>> “There’s so much voter fraud,” she said, shaking her head.
This is the heart of the problem with Trump supporters; they have been conned and, like any good con, the mark does not even realize it. Voter fraud had been an insignificant issue in modern elections. There are several sources of information that describe exactly why this is so, you just have to look it up. On the other hand, gerrymandering is common and completely out in the open, as are voter suppression initiatives intended to keep out "undesirable" (i.e. likely Democrat) voters. But this is not the fraud that woman is referring to.
This is the heart of the problem with Trump supporters; they have been conned and, like any good con, the mark does not even realize it. Voter fraud had been an insignificant issue in modern elections. There are several sources of information that describe exactly why this is so, you just have to look it up. On the other hand, gerrymandering is common and completely out in the open, as are voter suppression initiatives intended to keep out "undesirable" (i.e. likely Democrat) voters. But this is not the fraud that woman is referring to.
9
I would like to see a Wiki-Leaks dump of all the Republican campaign people's emails. All we've seen is the Democrats stuff. I'm sure there is a lot of dirt that would be appalling.
9
The worst, most hateful, dumbest people in our society. They should be strongly sanctioned by their neighbors and families. Shame them back into their dark slimey holes.
6
It's very tempting to get caught up in what you see in your neighborhood,or on Facebook and think it represents reality but you can easily fool yourself. In my Brooklyn neighborhood before the primary, all you saw was Bernie signs and bumper stickers - yet the voting results shown on the NYT website showed that my block overwhelmingly voted for Clinton. It's what happens today that counts.
9
Delusional frightful people
18
It would have been nice if the clearly biased author of this column had randomly selected Trump supporters in Florida to interview. This type of "journalism" is dishonest to its core and leads to events like the UVA article in Rolling Stone. But of course, most Times writers do the same -- and most journalists think that it is perfectly ok to use anecdotal evidence -- or a sample of 1 or 2 -- to make a point. Stupid. And those who read this defaming piece are dumber than the Trump supporters depicted here because they fall for this type of ridiculous argument.
7
I don't see the "clear bias". Ralphie doesn't deny any of the facts in Emma Roller's piece. The only bias in Roller's article is toward facts.
3
You're projecting Ralphie.
2
Of course it's biased. It's an opinion piece. It's not supposed to be disinterested or unbiased news, and it's not pretending to be such.
I think it speaks well of Ms. Roller that she could make a point without inserting herself into it and laying out plenty of facts--cited, no less! You're more than welcome to disagree with her point of view, and, had this *not* appeared in the opinion pages, I'd absolutely agree with you that this was dishonest. But here it is, and complaining that an opinion piece has, well, an opinion is like complaining that peanut butter tastes nutty.
I think it speaks well of Ms. Roller that she could make a point without inserting herself into it and laying out plenty of facts--cited, no less! You're more than welcome to disagree with her point of view, and, had this *not* appeared in the opinion pages, I'd absolutely agree with you that this was dishonest. But here it is, and complaining that an opinion piece has, well, an opinion is like complaining that peanut butter tastes nutty.
3
Trump would be a dictator if elected and inact his hateful views on anyone who doesn't look like him. Beware you people who are voting for Trump. You are making a pact with the devil.
6
What can we possibly say in the face of brutal ignorance? The candidate that actually supports a Constitutional democracy threatens a dictatorship? The Republican Congress has "let Obama do everything he wanted"? What madness! Has infrastructure spending increased? Have we implemented national background checks on gun purchases? Have we implemented every piece of legislation designed to stave off the worse results of climate change (the same forces that will make much of Florida uninhabitable?) Have we increased taxes at all to save Social Security or Medicare? Have we closed loopholes that allow the wealthiest corporations and people to avoid taxes? Have we even held hearings on a replacement Supreme Court justice (one that was universally praised by both parties in years past)?
Bigotry, ignorance, greed, incivility. Our republic is at risk of collapsing under the weight of these corrosive forces.
Think, people. For the sake of our Republic, our children, our world, use the brains that took evolution so long to come up with and THINK!
Bigotry, ignorance, greed, incivility. Our republic is at risk of collapsing under the weight of these corrosive forces.
Think, people. For the sake of our Republic, our children, our world, use the brains that took evolution so long to come up with and THINK!
15
As a Cuban American immigrant/communist refugee, if find the comments of my fellow cubanos in the article depressing. "So much voter fraud" and "we already lost one country, now we're about to lose another". How ignorant and uniformed. How third world.
26
Is there a list out there of the crimes Hillary has been convicted of? How about crimes She's been indicted on? There is not because she hasn't committed any. She's had the opposition party with some very bright lawyers up her butt for 25 years and they can't find anything to indict or convict her on so we must assume she hasn't done anything that would rise to the level of a crime. You know... that whole innocent until proven guilty thing we've got going here in the US. Hell just show me a misdemeanor. Maybe if she sold arms to Iran illegally like the conservative god Ronald Reagan did there might be a reason to dislike her. Those that hate her just have hate in their hearts and they picked her to vent that hate. Should she win the world will be a better place for the sons and daughters of these people and sadly they will never be able to appreciate it because of the hate in their heart.
29
lfkl, absolutely spot on....my only comment is....if an enemy of yours spent $400 million over decades to defame, besmirch you with false allegations a few people would believe the rubbish.....it is very harder to counter false allegations.....except to vote for the injured party.
4
Overlooking Rick Scott's capacity to deliver Florida is stupid. Ken Detzner may be the right pick by Scott to hand victory to Trump. The Supreme Court has just the right number of Republicans to hand the victory to Trump by handing it over to the Republican House of Representatives. Corrupt and Florida are synonymous. Let's keep our fingers crossed....if we learn that Dade County went for Trump we will know beyond a doubt that the fix is in...
5
The naivete of many on the left like this columnist is breath-taking. Perhaps it is her youth and not remembering 2000. Think of where we would be today had FL not delivered GW to us, with a goal assist from SCOTUS.
3
This article and comments:
What arrogance.
What a dismissive attitude.
What elitism.
THAT is why Trump is ahead.
The insular Times board relying on idealistic reporters and readers who really feel they are superior to everyone else who has a different opinion.
Don't worry, contrary to your leftist, socialist fascism, we as Christians will forgive you and welcome you.
What arrogance.
What a dismissive attitude.
What elitism.
THAT is why Trump is ahead.
The insular Times board relying on idealistic reporters and readers who really feel they are superior to everyone else who has a different opinion.
Don't worry, contrary to your leftist, socialist fascism, we as Christians will forgive you and welcome you.
8
These people were quoted speaking their minds. It's utterly fair. You can't blame the reporter for using their own words. Lashing out only makes you look equally foolish.
5
I am a college educated woman who has been with the same employer for 25 years +. I have seen many an election cycle and have found this to be the worst of them all. I grew up glued to the TV watching the Watergate Hearings and the Ollie North etc. all hearings and have always been fascinated with politics and our own history as Americans. Never have I seen such a great divide by those on the left, never. You, TR have been saying what I have been saying all along. I have many friends and associates gay and straight alike with varying opinions where politics is concerned. They too have noticed the arrogant attitude from the left. Personally this is why Trump has resonated with so many. The arrogant dismissive attitudes from the left who always think they are superior to anyone who disagrees with them. All one need do is look at the comments threads to see it. Doesn't matter what topic. The libs love to bully their opponents in any way shape or form. It is a sign of weakness. And they talk about Trump bullying people? Sad fact is they never see themselves doing it either and sadder still they never will.
3
as a Christian, do you really think Jesus would advocate for sleazy, adulterous, lying Trump?
1
As over the top as the people in this article seem, you must realize that this IS Florida.
9
MUCH better title than before. I think the previous one led to much of the bickering in the comments section.
Actually, I see the title has switched again. Maybe I was mistaken...
Tumpers blame the mother of the disabled child because Trump supporters physically attacked them. Its all her fault they kicked them took over the wheelchair and forcibly ejected them So it was the her fault they were attacked. If it was irresponsible for anyone to bring their son as Trumpers postulate, what does that say about the rally and the people who attended it?
Its your fault for bringing your disabled kid, because you should have anticipated we would attack a kid in a wheelchair. Its an admission of their own obnoxiousness. You should know we are dangerous. Are you dumb lady?
He was their to protest Trump's mockery of the disabled and his cronies went one better.
Its your fault for bringing your disabled kid, because you should have anticipated we would attack a kid in a wheelchair. Its an admission of their own obnoxiousness. You should know we are dangerous. Are you dumb lady?
He was their to protest Trump's mockery of the disabled and his cronies went one better.
3
What source are you talking about?
2
Precious: "Mr. Sanders’s parting message was, “Without you, I am nothing.” Mr. Trump’s message closing argument so far has been, “Without me, you are nothing.”
And they eat this stuff up, PT Barnum was so correct.
And they eat this stuff up, PT Barnum was so correct.
13
If you dare try to read the comments sections on other websites, you'll find Republican supporters continually state that "liberals just don't get it" -- or, in their parlance, "libtards." This kind of rhetoric, some of it far worse than that example, has been a constant throughout President Obama's tenure.
So no, I don't believe Trump's claim that he'll be a uniter -- not when he himself has ginned up his crowds, encouraged violence, and his campaign hasn't done a thing to curb the misogynistic rhetoric against Clinton (just look at the hateful t-shirts sold at Trump's rallies by his devoted following). Trump has also played more than one anti-Semitic card. He is a dangerous loon, and yet his followers are willing to swallow his garbage hook, line, and sinker. Should Trump win, how will they come to grips with a promised prosperity, only dimly sketched by any actual policy proposals, that never comes?
I cannot wait for the election results to roll in tonight. I just hope for peace in our own country.
So no, I don't believe Trump's claim that he'll be a uniter -- not when he himself has ginned up his crowds, encouraged violence, and his campaign hasn't done a thing to curb the misogynistic rhetoric against Clinton (just look at the hateful t-shirts sold at Trump's rallies by his devoted following). Trump has also played more than one anti-Semitic card. He is a dangerous loon, and yet his followers are willing to swallow his garbage hook, line, and sinker. Should Trump win, how will they come to grips with a promised prosperity, only dimly sketched by any actual policy proposals, that never comes?
I cannot wait for the election results to roll in tonight. I just hope for peace in our own country.
11
Anytime someone refers to their opponents in childish names, IMHO should be duly ignored and their opinions ignored as well.
So Emma ... that last paragraph ... reads like a description of what happens after the circus leaves town.
4
I think the more accurate parallel is this: Bernie Sanders says "With you, I am nothing.
Trump says to his supporters: "Even with me, you're still nothing."
Trump says to his supporters: "Even with me, you're still nothing."
6
The real question for the psychologists is how on earth these people, that seem reasonably intelligent have as their "hero" Trump, a man that has NOTHING in his 70 year biography to indicate he cares a whit for anyone short of what HE can get from THEM. Not to mention that he lives a life that couldn't be more different from theirs both economically and morally. What kind of Jedi mind tricks are at work here?
21
Ms Geddy thinks like this because she has been brainwashed by years of Republican propaganda on Fox News and worse. The real evil monsters destroying our democracy are Roger Ailes and Rupert Murdoch and their ilk.
16
Sigh. Where to start?
It never ceases to amaze me how limited people's perspectives and understanding can be. The citizens mentioning how, based on what they see in their own communities, they can't believe anyone is actually supporting Clinton are a prime example. I have listened to people in my own (left-leaning) community say the opposite.
Economically, politically, and to a large extent ethnically, Americans have self-segregated. In Ann Arbor or Detroit, there are very few Trump supporters. In Monroe or Oakland Counties, just down the road, it's a different story. This makes individual observation in selected environments unreliable.
Similarly, when are people going to realize Facebook, etc., are MARKETING platforms? If you are not paying to use something on-line (sometimes even when you ARE paying), YOU are the product. The livestock whose attention and data are being sold to pay for the service. Of course, the algorithms determining the experience you have are going to steer you toward comforting pablum, reassurance, friendly propaganda, and like-minded individuals. That makes you feel good, and keeps your eyes on the advertising content!
People select comfortable, agreeable companionship and information over challenge and confrontation. In the real world and on-line. Full stop.
Whatever one's views, it boggles the mind how so many people consistently fail to remember this. That is why so many people are in for a rude shock, and may react angrily.
It never ceases to amaze me how limited people's perspectives and understanding can be. The citizens mentioning how, based on what they see in their own communities, they can't believe anyone is actually supporting Clinton are a prime example. I have listened to people in my own (left-leaning) community say the opposite.
Economically, politically, and to a large extent ethnically, Americans have self-segregated. In Ann Arbor or Detroit, there are very few Trump supporters. In Monroe or Oakland Counties, just down the road, it's a different story. This makes individual observation in selected environments unreliable.
Similarly, when are people going to realize Facebook, etc., are MARKETING platforms? If you are not paying to use something on-line (sometimes even when you ARE paying), YOU are the product. The livestock whose attention and data are being sold to pay for the service. Of course, the algorithms determining the experience you have are going to steer you toward comforting pablum, reassurance, friendly propaganda, and like-minded individuals. That makes you feel good, and keeps your eyes on the advertising content!
People select comfortable, agreeable companionship and information over challenge and confrontation. In the real world and on-line. Full stop.
Whatever one's views, it boggles the mind how so many people consistently fail to remember this. That is why so many people are in for a rude shock, and may react angrily.
7
Well said. I agree completely.
This morning my spouse, a Spaniard, compared a Dem presidential vote with having an opportunity to stick a banderilla in a bull.
Afterward, I had this amazing flood of emotion, a few tears, and the thought: "We're gonna have a woman president."
I voted first thing. Already, a half hour into voting, they had logged 3 times more voters than normal. (This in Madison, WI.)
It's gonna be a good night. All due to valid votes!
Afterward, I had this amazing flood of emotion, a few tears, and the thought: "We're gonna have a woman president."
I voted first thing. Already, a half hour into voting, they had logged 3 times more voters than normal. (This in Madison, WI.)
It's gonna be a good night. All due to valid votes!
10
It's hard to believe but this increasingly looks like the end of the Republican Party -- that the 2013 "autopsy" was just that. They are self-destructing in many of the same ways that their Federalist and Whig predecessors did. The question is who will pick up the pieces and what form will it take.
5
Trump supporters like these are the biggest fools among voters. They don't realize that a Trump victory would not benefit them at all, but would make their pathetic lives even worse than they are now. Many of them aren't even aware that they rely on social programs the Republicans denounce as "government handouts "and have been trying to destroy for years. I don't think it's appropriate to say anyone loves Trump, they just love to hate what he hates.
13
And how has this President and the next help minorities? More of them on the welfare roles under Obama a Democrat and his successor HRC also a democrat, as she will probably win. The divide between the haves and have nots has increased under Obama.
How will she help them? With more campaign rhetoric? How many more failed social programs must their be before they realize they don't work? Throwing money at the problem is not the answer.
How will she help them? With more campaign rhetoric? How many more failed social programs must their be before they realize they don't work? Throwing money at the problem is not the answer.
1
You are deluded if you really think Trump will help minorities, unless of course they're wealthy celebrities. Countries with better social programs have fewer unemployed and healthier economies. I guess you think it would be better to let people be homeless and starve than for them to be on welfare.
3
"When you point a finger, three point back at you."---
That pretty much embodies the Republican party and Trump supporters.
---They are responsible for election distortions through voter suppression and extreme gerrymandering, and not Democrats or Progressives rigging the ballot box.
---They are responsible for our hobbled justice system.
---They are responsible for undermining and starving gov. programs to make them less effective.
---They are responsible for millions of people still suffering because there Rep. states refuse to expand medicaid.
---They are responsible for the toxic public disrespect shown to our President, and female Presidential candidate.
And, of course, ignorance makes all that finger pointing seem justified.
After all, they are just pointing out the "truth."
That pretty much embodies the Republican party and Trump supporters.
---They are responsible for election distortions through voter suppression and extreme gerrymandering, and not Democrats or Progressives rigging the ballot box.
---They are responsible for our hobbled justice system.
---They are responsible for undermining and starving gov. programs to make them less effective.
---They are responsible for millions of people still suffering because there Rep. states refuse to expand medicaid.
---They are responsible for the toxic public disrespect shown to our President, and female Presidential candidate.
And, of course, ignorance makes all that finger pointing seem justified.
After all, they are just pointing out the "truth."
87
Interesting how many comments say that the bozos quoted in the article do not represent the good and thoughtful Trump supporter. Sorry, you don't get a pass on that. If you support a candidate that is as stupid, ignorant, racist, xenophobic, abusive and narcissistic as Trump then that's you too. You cannot support Trump and claim to be a good and thoughtful person. Sorry, you just can't.
166
Doc, sorry, you don't get a pass if you vote for a crooked, lying, corrupt, bribe taking candidate.
3
You don't get to support Hillary and claim to be a good and thoughtful person. It's a conundrum, isn't it?
1
That's what we think about you Clinton supporters, John MD. You voted for the second most reviled presidential candidate in the history of American politics. How utterly insane.
1
Klan, Breitbart, Stormfront, David Duke and white nationalists.
Those are the groups and individuals supporting Trump.
Those are the groups and individuals supporting Trump.
9
By mentioning The Rolling Stones in this article you inadvertently and erroneously smear them.
2
My feelings are best said in German:
Amerika:
Ein Land der Dummen, der will immer dumm sein, und denken alle andere der intelligent werden wollen, dumm sind.
Musing on the dawn of Armageddon...
I think it can be understood without google transkate.
Amerika:
Ein Land der Dummen, der will immer dumm sein, und denken alle andere der intelligent werden wollen, dumm sind.
Musing on the dawn of Armageddon...
I think it can be understood without google transkate.
2
Easy, there, Jack.
Europa hat auch Idioten genug. Die Geschichte, und Gegenwart, zeigt diese Wahrheit.
With respect, reflexive anti-Americanism is as lazy a basis for an argument as reflexive disdain for another social class.
Europa hat auch Idioten genug. Die Geschichte, und Gegenwart, zeigt diese Wahrheit.
With respect, reflexive anti-Americanism is as lazy a basis for an argument as reflexive disdain for another social class.
3
What are Roller's qualifications? Should I resort to Trump like come backs for believing she has the right refer to working class people as "those people". I was one of those people, our parents didn't communicate with us, the well to do didn't let us play with their kids, teachers didn't waste their time with us, we erre not allowed to fit into this world. You say you're against white working class people but aren't you against all working class people.
I've been to your homes, those of you educsted in the right universities, and usually find something missing. No not firearms. Libraties. Most of the time not even a book shelf. if there are books around its usually junk literature, biographies of pop stars and political polemic by authors like John Stewart . Those degrees must be hard to come but what have you applied your selves much after college? Ok, you can recite the party line but can you think on your own?
If you're smart and superior how did you miss this working class uprising happening in Europe and America? You know what, to me you're one of "those people". Ignorant, hateful of people who have less that find it easier to demonize those who disagree with you.
I've been to your homes, those of you educsted in the right universities, and usually find something missing. No not firearms. Libraties. Most of the time not even a book shelf. if there are books around its usually junk literature, biographies of pop stars and political polemic by authors like John Stewart . Those degrees must be hard to come but what have you applied your selves much after college? Ok, you can recite the party line but can you think on your own?
If you're smart and superior how did you miss this working class uprising happening in Europe and America? You know what, to me you're one of "those people". Ignorant, hateful of people who have less that find it easier to demonize those who disagree with you.
3
slow down there, Joe. Take a deep breath. Btw, it's Jon Stewart, no h in there.
2
Adam at least I'm not smug and condescending is no way to go thru life.
2
@ Joe G, just think of the source. Adam is one those pseudo intellectual over educated types who knows how to gain info from a book but can't really apply what he's learned other than a smug retort. Pity him and his ilk.
2
Some perspective from an unlikely source, Mr. Rogers. While a he was Methodist minister one never knew that he was because his show was about the lessons learned and of the most important for children was "Look for the helpers. You will always find people who are helping.”
Can you imagine a small child running to which candidate for help?
Can you imagine a small child running to which candidate for help?
3
"Their hero ends his speech, waves goodbye, and after one final thumbs-up, disappears behind a velvet curtain flanked by Secret Service officers. The crowd files out of the gymnasium to the strains of the Rolling Stones."
Let's hope the song was "You Can't Always Get What You Want".
Let's hope the song was "You Can't Always Get What You Want".
5
Maybe Sympathy for the Devil.
2
Binx, good one.
Never mind the accusations of "highly educated" (aka "elitist") columnists, isn't the opposite extreme on full display with comments by Trump supporters who have no grasp of history whatsoever??? Where did we go wrong or are they all under-educated high school dropouts?
5
I actually watched a more extended excerpt of his speech to a crowd in Michigan last night, and it was kind of a revelation to me (as a liberal Democrat) - I've tended just to see the most hateful sound bites where his face is all distorted in anger, but this was different and maybe gave me a glimpse of why his supporters love him. He was smooth and gave such a rosy wonderful picture of what he was going to do, he really sounded like one of these slick motivational speakers of the "if you dream it you can do it" variety. It's actually kind of scary in a different way from the hateful stuff. He's such a con man.
5
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/01/opinion/is-the-trump-campaign-just-a-g... I think this NYT article from July may require further analysis after today's exit polling. How many attendees at Trump rallies will actually prove to be Trump voters?
1
You all have to understand the Florida of Miami, Ft. Lauderdale and Orlando is not the state of reality. Reality is the home of militias, skinheads and George Zimmerman. Our governor is a proven liar and crook. Our statehouse is occupied by pinheads who behave much more like KKK'ers than actual Christians. We face environmental disasters while the political infrastructure does not believe science and denies the rising water on South Beach. So come to bask on our beaches, bring a valid credit card and hope that the rot of our state is not visible on your vacation.
10
So they cheer the trash on the stage and then throw their trash on the ground.
Nice.
Nice.
7
Trump did more for Floridians and the Florida economy than either of the Clintons.
4
Give us three -- maybe just two -- examples of what Trump did for Florida, Janis. (No golf courses, hotels, and other "benefits" counted.)
Must have been painful to listen to the quotes provided by the stupid people.
Too bad that education stopped being important to our nation.
Too bad that education stopped being important to our nation.
5
How sad for Janice Gaddy's granddaughters to have such a hate filled grandmother. What a legacy for grandchildren: a woman who hates everyone who disagrees with her. There is a famous photograph of a woman screaming at a young black woman integrating her high school in the 1950's. That woman grew up and regretted the hate she showed at that time. I rather suspect that won't be the case here. Yes, there are "deplorables" and she is one.
6
I have engaged many Trump supporters, to ask why Trump. It's a simple question that begs an honest, articulate and informed answer. The majority of the time the response is a denunciation of Ms. Clinton, which is not an answer to the question. So I re-ask. Why Trump?
To date, not one claimed Mr. Trump supporter has provided an reason beyond campaign slogans and biographical claims. No one speaks of his potential cabinet choices who would shape policy, or of his economic advisors who would have more to do with our financial future than Mr. Trump himself. His Chief of Staff, his pick for AG or Director of the FBI? All appointments directly affecting American life on a daily basis.
Trump supporters seem to celebrate in portraying themselves as an unruly mob of uninformed, poorly educated simpletons easily distracted by gold-plated trinkets and a sharp-tongued con man. So to the question asked by Ms Roller, "So, what are the Trump voters in Florida thinking..."
They don't.
To date, not one claimed Mr. Trump supporter has provided an reason beyond campaign slogans and biographical claims. No one speaks of his potential cabinet choices who would shape policy, or of his economic advisors who would have more to do with our financial future than Mr. Trump himself. His Chief of Staff, his pick for AG or Director of the FBI? All appointments directly affecting American life on a daily basis.
Trump supporters seem to celebrate in portraying themselves as an unruly mob of uninformed, poorly educated simpletons easily distracted by gold-plated trinkets and a sharp-tongued con man. So to the question asked by Ms Roller, "So, what are the Trump voters in Florida thinking..."
They don't.
130
So true. I have tried to engage as well. It never works for rational thought or opinion.
1
Love this response. Well stated. Thanks you.
Have you asked any Clinton supporters how they can vote for someone who has sold government influence for personal wealth and power? Has Hillary spoken of her cabinet choices? Her policy statements are wonkish plans to make things worse.
1
If FB is the indicator of today's winner, a cat will be the next president.
11
Pointing fingers won't help anymore. As an outside observer, and a very concerned one, I'd like to encourage everyone to get out and vote today. As the last midterm elections have hurtfully shown, it's all about turnout. Don't stay at home. Don't let anything hold you back, no matter what.
Even if you're not a fan of Ms. Clinton, even if you're Republican. Whether your vote is merely tactical, or heart-felt, vote for the democratic ticket this time. It will help protect your wonderful country from four years of unpredictable chaos, regress and global shame.
Don't give hate and ignorance a chance. In Germany, we do have our share of odd conspiracy theories and divisive hate mongers, too. Given that, and in light of our history, I can relate to what is at stake with this election. Get up and vote and show the world how great America already is, in the hearts of its people!
Even if you're not a fan of Ms. Clinton, even if you're Republican. Whether your vote is merely tactical, or heart-felt, vote for the democratic ticket this time. It will help protect your wonderful country from four years of unpredictable chaos, regress and global shame.
Don't give hate and ignorance a chance. In Germany, we do have our share of odd conspiracy theories and divisive hate mongers, too. Given that, and in light of our history, I can relate to what is at stake with this election. Get up and vote and show the world how great America already is, in the hearts of its people!
95
"These people" .........had this been directed at any other ethnic group the Times would have suspended its reporter. But hey directed at whites is ok. I k now many college educated people in all aspects of life and employment who will be voting for Trump and I look at them in disbelief. Both candidates are flawed and I will be voting for neither as my state is solidly blue and my vote is meaningless. Could not both parties given us better choices? I belong to no party and have always felt left out of the process. Good luck America we will certainly need it.
4
The photo you use, Queens Grl, tells me you're likely a Communist -- a Trotskyite, perhaps? -- so it's understandable you won't be voting for Hillary Clinton. But why not Trump? He's got of look of Diego Rivera about, him, and treats women the same as old fatso did, too.
There are plenty of democrats running for offices in New York. Or are all of them "flawed" in your estimation, too?
There are plenty of democrats running for offices in New York. Or are all of them "flawed" in your estimation, too?
Do you know who Frieda Kahlo was? She was one of the most specularly talented artists in the world. And she was a woman. And she would have permanently terminated Donald Trump's groping hands had he touched her. Of course, he wouldn't have let her into the country. She was tough, brilliant, committed to social justice. Her works today sell for in the millions.
I doubt The Donald even knows who she is.
So you appropriated her image because it is attractive. She was a Communist, too, you know.
In other words, you castigate the "left" and appropriate one of the great female "leftists" of the 20th Century.
Not voting is exactly the wrong way to make America great again, incidentally. How many hundreds of thousand of young Americans have died so that you could vote? This is how we become great again? Posing as a caring American who has no understanding of what it means to vote?
I doubt The Donald even knows who she is.
So you appropriated her image because it is attractive. She was a Communist, too, you know.
In other words, you castigate the "left" and appropriate one of the great female "leftists" of the 20th Century.
Not voting is exactly the wrong way to make America great again, incidentally. How many hundreds of thousand of young Americans have died so that you could vote? This is how we become great again? Posing as a caring American who has no understanding of what it means to vote?
Frieda knew who her man and what he was. But she loved him. It was another of those storied, fraught love affairs of great artists. He may have been fat, but he was every bit as brilliant as Frieda and vice versa. They fought their love/hate battles as the Gods would: no holds barred, the lightning splitting the dark skies. Yet, like other great artists -- DHLawrence is another classic; and let us not forget F. Scott Fitzgerald and Zelda's love/hate affair -- we are the better for having had access to their brilliance as they ruthlessly, surgically cut open their hearts for all to see. Their commitments to truth and justice and the courage they had to possess just to live these madly passionate lives of theirs and share them unfiltered.
Do you really believe that these are the only people who will vote for Mr. Trump?
Are you saying that more than 30%, 40%, 45% of the American electorate resemble those portrayed in this article?
Your prejudice is showing.
Are you saying that more than 30%, 40%, 45% of the American electorate resemble those portrayed in this article?
Your prejudice is showing.
6
I spotted a tee-shirt on woman with a hand pointing down to her genitals and the words, "Trump is welcome to grab this anytime." Nothing more needs to be said his supporters, that says it all,
8
OMG! How does a woman have to feel about herself to wear such a T-shirt?
5
All these Trump people want 'change' and hate those who are elected and working in government. and yet, FL will return Rubio, the worst Senator in history. He disdains the Senate, didn't show up, quit. And now he, and most incubates wil be returned. Crazy!
4
If you are non-white, one of the first thing that comes to your mind out in public, especially in a place like Ohio, is "every other white person I see is a Trump supporter." It will be a long, long time before that impression of America's dominant group is shaken.
The mentality of these people is truly frightening.
I fear for America.
I fear for America.
6
The Donald is about to find out that "adoring crowds" do not translate into general election victories.
But he wanted the adoring crowds more than he actually wanted to be President.
A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to that Forum.
And that thing was Hillary Clinton.
God speed today, Secretary Clinton. God speed.
But he wanted the adoring crowds more than he actually wanted to be President.
A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to that Forum.
And that thing was Hillary Clinton.
God speed today, Secretary Clinton. God speed.
7
These people need a reality check and will get one tomorrow morning when they wake up. The woman who thinks the republican congress didnt do enough to stop Obama is a perfect example. Congress did nothing, nothing at all since they came to power. Is that what she really wants?
15
Wow, this is democracy at it's worst or perhaps it's best. Depending on whom you are voting for. The issues seem irrelevant. The major policies of the candidates mean nothing to the "gut" voter . Most American's don't even realize what the real issues are. Dangerous times. Mr. Trump is unqualified and Mrs. Clinton is over the hill. Most Americans want Sex, drugs, war, no gay rights, no women's equality and all the benefits that the past Democratic party pushed for and made America what it is today. If Mr. Trump and his philosophy wins we are going backwards.
1
What is so sad is the people who have given their loyalty and likely their vote to a man actually believe he is in it for them. It is clear to anyone who thinks about Donald Trump's actions and remarks that all this has been about him, not about them. It really is sad that they have been so taken in by this con artist.
5
"What is so sad is the people who have given their loyalty and likely their vote to a man actually believe he is in it for them." It is hard to miss the irony in this statement as the Clinton's have amassed a fortune in the 10s of millions of dollars, if not more, by playing fast and loose with all kinds of rules. http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/10/bill-clinton-foundation-wikileaks...
My vote for her is most definitely lesser of 2 evils territory and, for me, there is no joy or political conviction in it.
My vote for her is most definitely lesser of 2 evils territory and, for me, there is no joy or political conviction in it.
3
And do you really believe that she is in it for anyone other than herself and her corrupt foundation?
3
I wish I could find some rules I could play "fast and loose" with so I could amass a fortune. Even a couple of thousands dollars so I could replace my sad little 18-year-old car I need to commute to my part-time job with an underfunded non-profit.
So, Buzzy, could you give me a little list of some of the rules the Clintons played fast and loose with, please.
(I'll look for your response as soon as I get back from voting for Hillary,)
So, Buzzy, could you give me a little list of some of the rules the Clintons played fast and loose with, please.
(I'll look for your response as soon as I get back from voting for Hillary,)
“We already lost a country, and we’re on the verge of losing another,” she said.
You captured the frustration and bile, but failed to get them to articulate just what it is that is causing this hatred. In other words, what is driving the cause or cult? Racism, immigration? Something else? The economy leaving them behind?
These same people scoffed at "the others" in the black ghettos and "wetbacks" for decades and offered no relief; but now with the emergence of the White Ghettos they somehow see themselves as different. They want new jobs, a new standard of living and they don't want to move.
One thing that is certain: you cannot turn back the clock and those who refuse to accept that principle are doomed in their own minds.
You captured the frustration and bile, but failed to get them to articulate just what it is that is causing this hatred. In other words, what is driving the cause or cult? Racism, immigration? Something else? The economy leaving them behind?
These same people scoffed at "the others" in the black ghettos and "wetbacks" for decades and offered no relief; but now with the emergence of the White Ghettos they somehow see themselves as different. They want new jobs, a new standard of living and they don't want to move.
One thing that is certain: you cannot turn back the clock and those who refuse to accept that principle are doomed in their own minds.
5
I had a Trump supporter tell me last week that he wanted his country back. When I asked what that meant, he said " they don't put white people in commercials anymore" I had to pick my jaw up off the ground.
3
My biggest fear is that Trump will win and his supporters will feel even bolder. I am afraid of Trump supporters. I have read that they are not all mean and nasty, but those seem in the minority. My mind just keeps going back to Germany in the years leading up the the war. Little by little it became acceptable, even fashionable, to hate and ridicule Jews. It was politically correct to say anything at all to Jewish children and adults you saw on the streets. Name calling was approved of, you didn't have to serve them in your shop or restaurant. Soon enough, they were no longer allowed to own businesses, their children couldn't go to school, they were forced from their homes. The attitude of many Trump supporters reminds me so much of those times. There was no one to stop the discrimination and hatred directed toward Jews.The Germans were perfectly normal people, who when given approval, unleashed their dark, secret selves and became the tormentors of their fellow citizens. They dropped all pretense of civility, they were free to speak their minds, just like Trump is so proud to do. I am afraid the Trump supporters will not be stopped if he wins.
10
This is my fear as well. That the crazies within his ranks will feel empowered and supported. If he wins, we WILL see an increase in hate crime in the US. we WILL see an increase in in discrimination. It will be no surprise, as we see the same thing in the UK. If his speeches were just about jobs and the economy, then we wouldn't be seeing this crap. People can try to explain it anyway they want to, but a vote for him, is a vote to empower the groups from the fringes of society. I am all for kicking all of these assholes out of DC (both parties) but this is not the way, or the path we need to go down. Do not let these politicians play the blame game with other races. They do not hold the power either. Neither of these two candidates are fighting to return the power to the people. Trump may blow up Washington, but they won't like what they get once the explosion is over. We'll go back to feeding them "you may not be able to feed your kids, but at least you're better than them".
I don't want to live in a country where Trump and his ilk are supported by a sizable minority of my fellow citizens.
The fact he got as far as he did means we are already living in Trumplandia. We lose whomever is 'elected'.
"whale oil beef hooked" as the Scotsman said.
The fact he got as far as he did means we are already living in Trumplandia. We lose whomever is 'elected'.
"whale oil beef hooked" as the Scotsman said.
4
Unlike Bernie Sanders, Trump says the movement will end if he loses. Why? Because the "movement" has always and only been about him. It is not about ideas, ways to make our country better, or anything else - it is about the narcissistic ego of one man. How can people fall for this kind of demagoguery? Actually, the quotes in the article answer that question - these are gullible people who are willing to take at face value the garbage he spews. So sad for our country!
124
This morning, Trump was being interviewed and was asked again what happens if he loses. His response again was that he would consider this entire exercise to be a complete waste of time and his $100MM (even though we know the RNC is paying him back for all or most of that). How any Trump supporter can not be turned off by that single statement is beyond me. If the candidate I supported so strongly as they do said that, I would be crushed. Anyone else would say something to the effect of at least we raised awareness about XYZ and the fight for the blue collar workers will continue, etc etc. Trump's statement yet again proves he was only in this for himself. He does not, has not and will not care for anyone who is not rich like him (and billionaire rich only need apply). If so many of his supporters weren't so violent, crass and cruel, I would feel sorry for them but I simply cannot any longer. When casting my vote this morning I had this overwhelming feeling that this was the most important vote I have ever cast. I have never been so afraid of the possibility of such a pitiful man winning the Presidency. I have been disappointed by outcomes but never afraid. In America I shouldn't be afraid about who is at the helm.
1
While Trump might be over with today's election, the rancor of his supporters won't disappear. Nor will their suspicion of government, lack of faith of the mainstream news media, willful ignoring of real facts like climate warning ("I don't let facts get in the way of my opinions"), etc etc. And in the background to all of this is the economic tsunami coming that will sweep away millions of jobs(robotization, AI, self driving cabs, trucks.) Liberal democracy will continue up to face assaults bothhere and in Europe.We ain't seen nothing yet...
I agree with your point but I am not impressed by the NYT's sourcing of this particular quote.
Hate came along as a way to draw voters. Let's get them to hate, despise the opponent. I mean vein popping vile. And it was always the same, she's a liar, a criminal. Disagree with and do not support was the former opposition. In the past it would be pride in your Party and the values of why we should support our party. Let's stop the focus groups to find the words that stir up the crowd. Car Radio and Cable news along with these fringe "news" site has completely misinformed the Voter. No one seeks to first understand both sides of the argument before they use their creative thought of what is best for me and my future generation.
4
Our country is going through a rapid change. Many (not all) of Trump supporters are uncomfortable, or even fearful, with this change. Change is hard. It takes some time getting used to. Many, especially white males, are losing power. First a Black president, and now only 8 years later a woman? It's too much for them. But thankfully we have a peaceful change. Though difficult words are better than bullets. In time this too will pass. Latinos, Blacks, women, whites..will all share in the power, and we will all be stronger for it.
4
Right on Bonnie!
One of the letter-writers called Hillary "a deeply flawed candidate" -- but I reject that. That is a meme that is too often uttered by people marginalizing her.
Not only has she been an effective politician -- one who has time and again shown her deep commitment to children, to families, to the world -- but she has stood up against rivers of hate brewed by malevolent right-wing hate merchants who are only interested in winning at any cost.
I was very proud to be able to cast my vote for her!
I am very grateful she is our party's candidate (wasn't she wonderful in the debates?) and many tens of millions of American voters feel the same way!
There is only one "deeply flawed candidate" in the race and it's not the one with a heart of gold who is wearing pants suits.
Go Hillary! Go USA!
Not only has she been an effective politician -- one who has time and again shown her deep commitment to children, to families, to the world -- but she has stood up against rivers of hate brewed by malevolent right-wing hate merchants who are only interested in winning at any cost.
I was very proud to be able to cast my vote for her!
I am very grateful she is our party's candidate (wasn't she wonderful in the debates?) and many tens of millions of American voters feel the same way!
There is only one "deeply flawed candidate" in the race and it's not the one with a heart of gold who is wearing pants suits.
Go Hillary! Go USA!
13
Caleb: Beautifully said. Thanks.
2
I totally disagree. I believe she deeply flawed and it's exhausting to recite all the reasons as they have been extensively covered. Currently, I am most bothered by the the Creamer story as well as Donna Brazile. What an edge going in a debate with the debate questions that leave you most vulnerable. The Clintons are known for corruption. It's just who they are. When I perused comment sections during this election, I was shocked by the by the vulgar comments by the left against Trump and his supporters; much less by Trump supporters. I found that disturbing given that the first sentence typically began with how vile Trumps words were. My family will move forward no matter who becomes the president elect. But I feel the Democratic party has glossed over the very deep cracks in their own party while focusing on the disruption of the GOP.
3
I have no idea why Donna Brazile did what she did, but I do know
Hillary is not the one who needed questions up front! Her experience, intelligence and involvement in government for 30 years has kept her well informed. Donald on the other hand...............
Hillary is not the one who needed questions up front! Her experience, intelligence and involvement in government for 30 years has kept her well informed. Donald on the other hand...............
2
I live in one of the few remaining rural places in Orange County Florida. My instinct is that Trump and Hillary support is about equal here. Downtown Hillary support is dominate. But because of the belligerent and nastiness of many Trump voters Hillary voters like me are flying under the radar. So Trumpets live in a bubble of their own making. It will be I think a rude awaking come Wednesday morning for them.
6
America has just witnessed a live remake of the 1950's film classic starring Burt Lancaster, "The Rainmaker." In the dust bowl of the 1930's, Lancaster went from town to town, promising that he could make it rain, and gathered adoring crowds. In the end, we see that Lancaster knew he was conning people for contributions. Life imitates art.
4
It's sad and even embarrassing that there are people who believe that the size of supporters gathered at rallies or the number of posts on Facebook can be logically linked to a big win for Trump.
Even more disturbing is how much the alt-right machine has brainwashed some Americans with a long list of conspiracy theories.
Hate. Violence. Outright Lies. It will take more than a village to overcome the Trump machine's damage to our country.
Even more disturbing is how much the alt-right machine has brainwashed some Americans with a long list of conspiracy theories.
Hate. Violence. Outright Lies. It will take more than a village to overcome the Trump machine's damage to our country.
5
Are the Clinton investigations, Robert Creamer or Donna Brazile stories just conspiracies?
3
I don't understand the hostility of the elderly towards the federal government. They consume half the federal budget through Medicare and Social Security, eating federal dollars that could otherwise be spent on infrastructure, science, and other long term investments. Are they leftover Reagan voters, who still see the government as the problem, not the solution?
7
Please inform yourself. Medicare and Social Security are paid for by tax dollars paid directly for these programs. These taxes are not insubstantial; in fact, many find that these taxes take a big enough bite out of their income to make their investing in an independent nest egg impossible. One of the biggest threats to these programs is congressional shananigans such as the one that you suggest. These earmarked funds most assuredly should not be used to rebuild infrastructure. Infrastructure should be managed as an investment. Borrow cheap money (which is available in abundance now) and repay the loans with income tax receipts that will accrue from the boon to employment that infrastructure jobs will bring. Transportation taxes should be attached to every airline ticket, every tank of gas, every train ticket, every bus ticket, and paid by every online merchant who ships good to customers. Pay to play or get out of the game.
1
I don't see the point of this piece. What is missing from the elite media and the political class is an understanding of, to put it in Marvel terms, the creation myth of Bernie and Trump.
The electorate is sharpening pitchforks. The Democratic Party elite and the NYT rigged their primaries and barely fought off Bernie. The Republicans did not get so lucky with Trump.
But the underlying issues remain corporate oligarchy, income inequality and NAFTA have destroyed the middle class. Things like abortion, religion, and the Supreme Court are just tools both parties use to control and motivate voters. The real issue is prosperity and sharing.
We are not mountain lions, we are bees. The role of government is to ensure we all stay healthy, everybody gets an opportunity to help gather the pollen, and everybody gets enough honey to survive the winter. Our system is currently set up vastly differently, and if it is to survive that has to change.
The journey is just starting, the question seems to be is Clinton going to continue to kick the can down the road for her corporate bosses or will she do an FDR pivot. I'm not optimistic.
The electorate is sharpening pitchforks. The Democratic Party elite and the NYT rigged their primaries and barely fought off Bernie. The Republicans did not get so lucky with Trump.
But the underlying issues remain corporate oligarchy, income inequality and NAFTA have destroyed the middle class. Things like abortion, religion, and the Supreme Court are just tools both parties use to control and motivate voters. The real issue is prosperity and sharing.
We are not mountain lions, we are bees. The role of government is to ensure we all stay healthy, everybody gets an opportunity to help gather the pollen, and everybody gets enough honey to survive the winter. Our system is currently set up vastly differently, and if it is to survive that has to change.
The journey is just starting, the question seems to be is Clinton going to continue to kick the can down the road for her corporate bosses or will she do an FDR pivot. I'm not optimistic.
3
It is at times like this that I wish I was a Florida resident because I would be standing hand and hand with these Donald Trump supporters. I was on my way to vote this morning when I bumped into a friend from my gym who said there was a two-hour wait. We started talking about the election and I found out she is voting for Mr. Trump. We are not thrilled with the man but we do not like nor trust Hillary Clinton. We mentioned that we have had to remain silent to friends and co-workers about our voting preference. Then a little while later I bumped into a friend from Church who was supporting Mr. Trump.
I began to wonder that there may be more secret Trump voters than we realize. In Manhattan, I have not seen one Hillary Clinton button worn by her supporters. This is rather unusual in a liberal city like New York. I think people consider her th lesser of two evils and are voting for her reluctantly. I am positive that New York will swing towards Hillary Climton but not enthusiastically.
I did not wait in line but will vote tonight for Donald Trump as I think he is the least threatening candidate. I could never vote for Mrs. Clinton as I do not respect her. She is looking out for her own self interests and does not really care about the average American. She wants the presidential spot so badly that she will do anything to achieve it. I worry about a Clinton presidency and the future of this great nation. I do not think she will make America great again.
I began to wonder that there may be more secret Trump voters than we realize. In Manhattan, I have not seen one Hillary Clinton button worn by her supporters. This is rather unusual in a liberal city like New York. I think people consider her th lesser of two evils and are voting for her reluctantly. I am positive that New York will swing towards Hillary Climton but not enthusiastically.
I did not wait in line but will vote tonight for Donald Trump as I think he is the least threatening candidate. I could never vote for Mrs. Clinton as I do not respect her. She is looking out for her own self interests and does not really care about the average American. She wants the presidential spot so badly that she will do anything to achieve it. I worry about a Clinton presidency and the future of this great nation. I do not think she will make America great again.
3
Does this person know that Trump has spent his whole life looking out for no one but himself, at the EXPENSE of others ? Please don't change the subject or attck the writer. When has Trump looked out for others as a primary goal ?
3
I agree that there are more secretly ignorant people out there than anyone would imagine.
These gullible people have allowed themselves to be manipulated by the Clinton conspiracy-mongers for decades. Why would they now decide to read primary sources, sharpen their critical thinking, and realize that she's just a hard-working politician who happens to favor issues facing women and children?
Anyone that poorly informed should stay silent, and I wish more of them would do so.
These gullible people have allowed themselves to be manipulated by the Clinton conspiracy-mongers for decades. Why would they now decide to read primary sources, sharpen their critical thinking, and realize that she's just a hard-working politician who happens to favor issues facing women and children?
Anyone that poorly informed should stay silent, and I wish more of them would do so.
1
Back to basic Rob and Dr. B,
These two friends and I are college educated with advanced degrees. There are many others who support Donald Trump who are just like us.
Hillary Clinton's supporters are not all highly educated and I would say many are on the dole. They love all the free things she has promised them and will be so disappointed when she is unable to deliver. By the way, did you notice J-Z, the performer at one of her rallies using profanities. I guess Mrs. Clinton is all right with this. He is a former drug dealer who is not exactly an exemplary Clinton supporter.
Before you judge Donald Trump's supporters, take a good look at Mrs. Clinton's. They are not all outstanding citizens.
These two friends and I are college educated with advanced degrees. There are many others who support Donald Trump who are just like us.
Hillary Clinton's supporters are not all highly educated and I would say many are on the dole. They love all the free things she has promised them and will be so disappointed when she is unable to deliver. By the way, did you notice J-Z, the performer at one of her rallies using profanities. I guess Mrs. Clinton is all right with this. He is a former drug dealer who is not exactly an exemplary Clinton supporter.
Before you judge Donald Trump's supporters, take a good look at Mrs. Clinton's. They are not all outstanding citizens.
1
The ignorance exhibited by Ms. Gaddy and Ms. Kraft is appalling.
They have no idea what they want. They can't express specifics about what Mr. Obama did or didn't do, or what Trump will do to Make America Great Again.
It would be sad, if it weren't so frustrating.
They have no idea what they want. They can't express specifics about what Mr. Obama did or didn't do, or what Trump will do to Make America Great Again.
It would be sad, if it weren't so frustrating.
51
I can't give a good reason to vote for Mr. Trump but I can give a number of specifics about President Obama and Mrs Clinton that discourage me from voting for his "legacy" and her candidacy. 1. Her support for the Iraq war. I read her Senate speech recently and she voted for it with "commitment". 2. Her support for the Iran Treaty. I agree with Senator Schumer: it will further destabilize the Middle East and lead ultimately to a nuclear Iran. 3. Their record in Iraq with the rise of ISIS. Their record in Syria with half a million men, women and children killed and no end in sight. 4. Their failure to reach a partnership with Russia. 5. His failure to show effective leadership on gun control and better training of our police. 6. Their trade policies which have led to the decimation of American manufacturing and its jobs. None of this is to suggest that Trump or Republicans have or would have done better.
You expected all of their views in the short span of time they were talked to? The left is acting like the right were recently. Thank God it will all be over soon and we can begin to heal
Music by the Rolling Stones is a curious choice for a Trump rally. Then again, such classics as "(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction" and "You Can't Always Get What You Want" would be entirely appropriate for a rally at the end of the campaign of such a miserable excuse for a human being.
1
the condescension and arrogance of this editorial as well of many of the commentariat is deplorable.
17
Ralphie, in some ways I agree with you. Phrases like "the slightly less cartoonish visage" do not promote a sense of fairness. That said, most of what the writer reports is just what happened, what people said. Those of us who think carefully, who spend time pondering issues, who read books, who don't seek dictators who say "Without me, you are nothing" (how condescending can Trump himself get?), perhaps have a right now to be frustrated at a the people who in rallies. They are mob-like, they say violent things, they do violent things, they spread a pugnacious and frightening message. At some point, one has to call it as one sees it.
10
it's hard for people to understand how a man who lies or just says things he makes up every time he opens his mouth can be taken seriously. yet he is. it is dumbfounding to people who care at least a little about facts and accuracy. people aren't naïve enough to think politicians are truth telling machines, but trump has gone where no man has gone before with his inability to go more than a few seconds without telling a head shaking whopper....
80
The truth hurts, doesn't it Ralphie? These are ignorant people.
10
Let me say what nobody else will. These Trump voters are simply stupid. They're incapable of comprehending anything more complicated than a bumper sticker or a slogan on a bright red hat. Throw in our culture's obsession with celebrity and this is what you get. Is it really surprising that evangelicals (morons who believe the biggest lie of all) now support a thrice married, sexual predator, revealing themselves to be complete hypocrites? This is the Republican Party!
94
A little judgmental, are we? The left is so stuck on their belief that they, and only they, are correct about everything. America is not going to implode no matter who wins this evening.
2
Evangelicals have certainly left the good news of the Gospel behind.
It is horrifying and has given Christianity a very bad name.
It is horrifying and has given Christianity a very bad name.
2
Your conclusion is wrong -- the die-hard Trumpers who flock to his rallies won't be why he wins Florida if he does. It'll be the white suburbanites and retirees--lifelong fiscal Republicans--who actually can't stand him, but could never bring themselves to vote for Hillary Clinton. I just came from voting down here, and they are out in droves because they believe she will be worse for the country than he. If the Dems had managed to put anyone up besides her (or Sanders) this would have been over as soon as Trump got the nomination.
14
While not one of them, I am not completely unsympathetic to fiscal Republicans. It would be more satisfying to see this group vote Libertarian though don't you think?
You are correct.
These people suffer from a fear-induced psychosis. There is no hope for them, and no matter what any government does for them, no matter how good a job, or how white their neighborhood, they cannot be happy, because they have poisoned themselves with bile and hatred.
51
Ahhh, the toxic stream of Republican blather.
1
Perhaps Trump supporters should just form their own party. They could call it the "Drop the Bomb and Let God Sort It Out Party." No agenda much beyond "Lock Her Up" and stopping mythical voter fraud.
It takes a long time to build a civil society. I see little that the GOP has to offer toward that goal. Hell, they don't even want to pay for the wars they start.
One truth has emerged this year about the GOP: They have become little more than a dressed up version of the Klan. Barring a miracle for Trump, let's hope that this ends the GOP's quest for the most extreme element of this country's right wing.
It takes a long time to build a civil society. I see little that the GOP has to offer toward that goal. Hell, they don't even want to pay for the wars they start.
One truth has emerged this year about the GOP: They have become little more than a dressed up version of the Klan. Barring a miracle for Trump, let's hope that this ends the GOP's quest for the most extreme element of this country's right wing.
26
Well-written and interesting article capturing the mean spiritedness and irrationality of Trump supporters. Also at a Trump rally in Florida, his supporters mistreated a 12 year old boy with cerebral palsy who was protesting Trump's mocking of the disabled. By some accounts his wheelchair was grabbed, it was kicked, and obscene abuse was shouted at his mother and young sisters. Trump himself said to get him out, and as usual, the mob turned into a hate fest. The happy ending is that the boy was able to meet President Obama at another Florida rally.
But what kind of people abuse a boy in a wheelchair who is brave enough to go to a big crowd event with a protest message? What kind of hatred is in the hearts and souls of these Trump people? A woman who brings her young granddaughters and spouts irrational hatred? What message is she giving to children? What kind of candidate is Trump that his hate mongering engenders attacks on protesters, journalists, women, the disabled, and minorities? Ever hear of the First Amendment?
But what kind of people abuse a boy in a wheelchair who is brave enough to go to a big crowd event with a protest message? What kind of hatred is in the hearts and souls of these Trump people? A woman who brings her young granddaughters and spouts irrational hatred? What message is she giving to children? What kind of candidate is Trump that his hate mongering engenders attacks on protesters, journalists, women, the disabled, and minorities? Ever hear of the First Amendment?
46
They don't realize there is any other amendment besides the Second.
3
The Evangelical tent preacher has come to town and his crowd of suckers are plentiful and ripe for the taking. No matter where Trump goes he packs them in. From the swamps, to the rural mountain countryside, to the farmlands, to the deserts of the far west, and the gutted rust belt, this know nothing candidates pushes the right buttons and these people love him.
17
People these days will not be swayed, they believe what they want regardless of facts.
However, what really got me is the woman who thinks Obama got all the legislation he wanted. In fact, she wants to stop all government. Just oppose, not lead. Hope she does not represent the future plurality of voters.
However, what really got me is the woman who thinks Obama got all the legislation he wanted. In fact, she wants to stop all government. Just oppose, not lead. Hope she does not represent the future plurality of voters.
15
What's sad is the very people who condemn other people for "living off the teat of the government" are looking to Trump to "make America great again". I wonder if Janice Gaddy even knows what the issues are and if she was really affected negatively by anything Obama did. Why isn't Ms. Gaddy looking in the mirror and doing what is necessary to make herself great again (if she was ever great, that is)? Ignorance and hate is clouding hers and other Trump supporter's judgments and relegating these people to mob status. Hillary may win the battle but the war will continue on for four more years.
9
If indeed "Trumpism" would end when Donald Trump is defeated tonight it would be a great relief. But the hatred and mistrust he has evoked will take a very, very long time to resolve and only when Congress starts acting like it cared about these people instead of themselves,
5
"These people?"
That would be incredibly racist if they were of a different race.
However, no insult is off limits when it is directed at working class whites.
That would be incredibly racist if they were of a different race.
However, no insult is off limits when it is directed at working class whites.
12
@RS..........indeed.
2
Amen
2
It's no the fact that they're working class whites. It's the fact that they don't know what they're talking about but they keep talking all the same.
1
I have met many of the elderly cuban population down here in South Florida and conversations do tend to lean a bit paranoid politically. I can't tell you how many times I heard Obama compared to Castro, which was a head scratcher. One has to be sympathetic people who heroically endured Batista and then Castro and built good solid lives for their families. However, if they want to make a Castro comparison, then Trump should be lighting all those paranoid buttons, not Clinton.
6
Very scary.
After this election I have vowed to spend none of my travel money, conference attendance etc. in any county where Trump won a majority. The people are downright pathetic and dangerous to boot.
After this election I have vowed to spend none of my travel money, conference attendance etc. in any county where Trump won a majority. The people are downright pathetic and dangerous to boot.
9
Liberal pundit goes to conservative event searching for the dumbest statements and reporting them as the standard. Yawn.
I have liberal friends and conservative friends. Trust me, there is a valley of ignorance on both sides. Maybe if Emma Roller actually knew any people who did not share her narrow views, she would not have to seek them out like some exotic bird. Seems like a lot of work to satisfy for her need for confirmation bias.
I have liberal friends and conservative friends. Trust me, there is a valley of ignorance on both sides. Maybe if Emma Roller actually knew any people who did not share her narrow views, she would not have to seek them out like some exotic bird. Seems like a lot of work to satisfy for her need for confirmation bias.
12
Mike James I see your point but come on, do you see the people that flock to Trump rallies? It is hard not to stereotype. Most thoughtful conservatives I know are hiding their heads in shame at their only choice to oppose HLC.
2
I have taken the time to have a dialog with my Republican friends and neighbors in Central Florida. In our back-and-forth exchange of emails I found them sending stuff from the Alt Right which when truth-checked proved substantially false. These men are successful retirees with enough assets to live in a wonderful Country Club Community. They tell me that Hilary is indeed responsible for Benghazi, that she is dishonest and untrustworthy and that her emails have obviously put the Country at risk. They believe that all regulation is evil and they refuse to take Lipitor because it is a scam and does not prevent heart attacks. They are very nice family people who make it fun to live here.
Take about brain washing...it is alive and well where I live.
Take about brain washing...it is alive and well where I live.
22
I believe in organized, limited, vetted immigration, not a free-for all. I am against partial birth abortion. I am rabidly against Obamacare as I am self-insured and pay preposterous premiums with a $7500 deductible which amounts to no coverage unless there is catastrophic illness. I would like to pay less taxes. And I support the military and law and order. I despise the corruption that encompasses the MSM, the DOJ, the FBI and the IRS. I have a master's degree. I do not live in Florida. I am voting for Donald Trump and then will be switching my party affiliation to Independent after the election.
6
The Republican Party wants to force other people's children (teenage daughters) to have unwanted babies - around one million per year.
Most are between 15 and 18 years old, not or just graduated from High School, likely unable to support themselves or a baby.
The Republican Party manipulated belief in the Iraq War which took about 350,000 lives - American and Iraqi, and resulted in 2,000,000 refugees
and a good part of the enormous debt we now have.
The Republican Party could have ameliorated the U.S. Economic Collapse,
but did not. In fact, David Stockman said the Republicans caused the U.S.
Economic Collapse.
Most are between 15 and 18 years old, not or just graduated from High School, likely unable to support themselves or a baby.
The Republican Party manipulated belief in the Iraq War which took about 350,000 lives - American and Iraqi, and resulted in 2,000,000 refugees
and a good part of the enormous debt we now have.
The Republican Party could have ameliorated the U.S. Economic Collapse,
but did not. In fact, David Stockman said the Republicans caused the U.S.
Economic Collapse.
3
You wish to pay "less taxes" (actually that should be pay" fewer taxes" or else say" less tax"), yet you 'support the military and law and order.' how do you propose to pay their salaries and retirement benefits without taxes?
3
Your health insurance is expensive because medical care in the US is so expensive. There is nothing magical about Obamacare, its just insurance. Before Obamacare your insurance would have been cheaper but also it would have had a lifetime cap. If you got really sick (as you likely will sometime in your life), you have blown through that lifetime cap and ended up bankrupt. People don't understand this until it happens to them.
3
The "How could he lose, if you look at Facebook?" remark says much about where we've arrived as a civilization -- and where we're heading.
I've never used social media. (I also don't watch television -- don't even own one -- but I realize that that could be considered beyond weird.) I read, I gather information, I toss ideas around, I make decisions and even change my mind. I'd say that I exchange ideas with other people, but that's no longer a possibility. Because everyone is absorbed in poking fingers and staring blankly at the screens of little devices clutched in their hands. I watch their eyes and think, "brain-dead." Conversation is on it's way to extinction.
The twittering masses will rule.
I've never used social media. (I also don't watch television -- don't even own one -- but I realize that that could be considered beyond weird.) I read, I gather information, I toss ideas around, I make decisions and even change my mind. I'd say that I exchange ideas with other people, but that's no longer a possibility. Because everyone is absorbed in poking fingers and staring blankly at the screens of little devices clutched in their hands. I watch their eyes and think, "brain-dead." Conversation is on it's way to extinction.
The twittering masses will rule.
8
I do not know how these Trump supporters, especially the religious ones can look at themselves in the mirror, show their faces at church, or not wake up in terror in the middle of the night for their sheer hypocrisy and total lack of moral compass. There is absolutely no way to square the teachings of Christ with support for the most vile candidate the Republicans have ever put forth. The caveats to this election however are young people beginning to question the moral authority of evangelicals, sexism and white male privilege. So I do have to hand it to the Orange Mennace for bringing all this uncomfortable stuff to the surface so we can really examine it, and make progressive changes so that the next time an autocratic demagogue emerges from the Republican pit, half the country won't support it.
10
If this election goes as everyone thinks it will, tight but with Clinton winning, I think it's time to officially bury the "Republicans can't win by catering to their base" meme. After Romney's narrow loss to Obama everyone agreed the party must change or die. And then four years later they nominated someone much more extreme and more repugnant to those not part of the base. Think tanks will again diagnose the problem as being the party faithful who are against immigration and socially conservative. But asking rank and file Republicans to embrace immigration and become socially liberal is a stupid prescription. It's not going to happen and the Republican base will again blame the messenger, not the message. If only Trump could control his temper, stop molesting women, do more fundraising, just like if Romney weren't so rich and out of touch, Republicans would have prevailed.
If Clinton wins by just a few percentage points, expect the think tank post mortems to be ignored just like last time, and that the Republicans will try to find a better messenger for the same message next time.
If Clinton wins by just a few percentage points, expect the think tank post mortems to be ignored just like last time, and that the Republicans will try to find a better messenger for the same message next time.
2
Repugnant, repulsive and Republican.
1
What we are witnessing is the last gasp of white nationalist politics as a winning formula for national success. Trump will lose and the clear message for the politics of the country is that no future presidential candidate can win an a national election without appealing to broad sectors of the electorate.
We must also register, that although the economy is doing much better than Trump claims, the overwhelming majority of the working class is being left behind, not just white working class voters. It is time to unite against the 1% and to build a society that just and equitable for ALL working people.
We must also register, that although the economy is doing much better than Trump claims, the overwhelming majority of the working class is being left behind, not just white working class voters. It is time to unite against the 1% and to build a society that just and equitable for ALL working people.
2
A good read for all of us us "American Amnesia" by Jacob Hacker and Paul
Pierson.
Pierson.
What's sad about all these people is their taking stock in the mostly meaningless rhetoric of their hero. It has not dawned on them that it's what Trump calls a rigged system that has helped him all his life at their expense. One needs only to look at Trump's economic proposals to realize it's Reaganomics all over again where the largest transfer of wealth occurred. The burden of this transfer has been placed on the shoulders of working people and the burden of the national debt, which is used by republicans for the purpose of hurting working people even more by wanting to take away hard-earned entitlements and watering down as well as eliminating regulations designed to help and protect them for the benefit of Trump and his ilk.
Should Trump win, his supporters will face a rude awakening.
Should Trump win, his supporters will face a rude awakening.
5
We have suspected for years that a good percentage of Americans, having been raised to believe eternal nonsense, prefer fact-free beliefs. I credit evil Hillary Clinton for tricking them into showing themselves to the rest of us. Why, without the Crooked Hillary catnip to entice them into our basket, we might not be sufficiently alerted to address vital issues like education, the lack of which fails to sow critical reasoning into fallow minds. The Trump phenomenon can be the canary in the coal mine, or like 350 ppb, it can be an admonition at which we scoff.
So, for the last six months, we have witnessed a pep rally for the Strom Thurmond team, the Oral Roberts Team, the Phyllis Schlafly Team, the Antonin Scalia team. All brought to you through the good offices of John Roberts, the man who set Republican legislatures free to crush minority voting. For why should those people be allowed to vote if they're going to choose someone who is a criminal and killed someone named Vince and, well, White water has a nice colorful ring to it, but she's an evil witch whose closest associate has one of them Muslim names! Blue dress!
Will these good Trump people disperse? Will they suffer from post-partum depression? Will they immediately search for the next grifter with a message crafted to fit their microscopic world view?
The genteel racism of the GOP has been revealed by Donald ("P.T. Barnum") Trump. The image I conjure is that of Marilyn Monroe standing in an updraft on a grate. Eek!
So, for the last six months, we have witnessed a pep rally for the Strom Thurmond team, the Oral Roberts Team, the Phyllis Schlafly Team, the Antonin Scalia team. All brought to you through the good offices of John Roberts, the man who set Republican legislatures free to crush minority voting. For why should those people be allowed to vote if they're going to choose someone who is a criminal and killed someone named Vince and, well, White water has a nice colorful ring to it, but she's an evil witch whose closest associate has one of them Muslim names! Blue dress!
Will these good Trump people disperse? Will they suffer from post-partum depression? Will they immediately search for the next grifter with a message crafted to fit their microscopic world view?
The genteel racism of the GOP has been revealed by Donald ("P.T. Barnum") Trump. The image I conjure is that of Marilyn Monroe standing in an updraft on a grate. Eek!
4
"Eternal nonsense". What a beautiful way to express it.
2
The desperation on display by Trump's supporters belies the Fact that many or all of them put themselves in the position of desperation. These are the very same people who have voted time after time against their own economic interests in supporting the republicans party.
Despite the republican party's direct assertions they would eliminate anything and everything that might serve as beneficial to this group of people ( social security, medicare, healthcare, minimum wages, jobs, you name it) They supported the republicans. Angry that they have received no support from their party, they have turned to a demagogue "to save" them. Once again their judgement fails them. It seems to be a never ending cycle of poor judgement, pretty much based on feelings of inferiority. Its a tough compulsion to break.
To the extent, their anger in this case could throw the country if not the world into semi chaos if Trump gets in, we indeed will be among their intended victims.
The only obvious chance to help Trump supporters will, paradoxically, be if Clinton can win the WH and the Dems some of the Congress at least. If the Dems could get a jobs bill passed ( like the ones the republicans have blocked for the last four years) Trump supporters might actually become somewhat more rational. Its a very long shot, but if Trump pulls it out, not only will his supporters get nothing, but we will all get screwed.
Despite the republican party's direct assertions they would eliminate anything and everything that might serve as beneficial to this group of people ( social security, medicare, healthcare, minimum wages, jobs, you name it) They supported the republicans. Angry that they have received no support from their party, they have turned to a demagogue "to save" them. Once again their judgement fails them. It seems to be a never ending cycle of poor judgement, pretty much based on feelings of inferiority. Its a tough compulsion to break.
To the extent, their anger in this case could throw the country if not the world into semi chaos if Trump gets in, we indeed will be among their intended victims.
The only obvious chance to help Trump supporters will, paradoxically, be if Clinton can win the WH and the Dems some of the Congress at least. If the Dems could get a jobs bill passed ( like the ones the republicans have blocked for the last four years) Trump supporters might actually become somewhat more rational. Its a very long shot, but if Trump pulls it out, not only will his supporters get nothing, but we will all get screwed.
1
The "aren't we wonderful" folks have supported the Republican Party, the most
destructive force in America.
destructive force in America.
2
Mr. Trump's words have stoked anger and prejudice. It is necessary to push back against him for this reason alone. But I think people are attracted to him for many reasons. Pointing at them, lumping them together as an angry, racist block is a mistake. Like Trump, these in-your-face types are over-represented in the media.
It is a mistake to view voters who see Trump as a protest vote against rationalism in government as anti-intellectual. The two groups overlap, but they are not the same. A lot of people see rationalism as the enemy—bureaucratic incrementalism and its accompanying promises economic improvement as hollow and self-serving. These voters see Democrats as hiding behind this kind of elitist/paternalistic overweening attitude while reaching into their pockets to find what remains to pay for it. They don't feel that they've ever been consulted about the social and economic changes that have been put upon them under Democratic rule and they see in Trump a possible alternative.
These ideas have been permitted to run wild on right wing media but that doesn't mean they don't contain some truth. Bernie Sanders tapped into this same need to be heard. When Trump says that the system is rigged different people hear many different things.
It is a mistake to view voters who see Trump as a protest vote against rationalism in government as anti-intellectual. The two groups overlap, but they are not the same. A lot of people see rationalism as the enemy—bureaucratic incrementalism and its accompanying promises economic improvement as hollow and self-serving. These voters see Democrats as hiding behind this kind of elitist/paternalistic overweening attitude while reaching into their pockets to find what remains to pay for it. They don't feel that they've ever been consulted about the social and economic changes that have been put upon them under Democratic rule and they see in Trump a possible alternative.
These ideas have been permitted to run wild on right wing media but that doesn't mean they don't contain some truth. Bernie Sanders tapped into this same need to be heard. When Trump says that the system is rigged different people hear many different things.
1
Mr. Trump’s message closing argument so far has been, “Without me, you are nothing.”
We can hope that is true, but it is not. They are something. Unfortunately Trump allowed many to let their inner thoughts become vocal. Through education and job vocation training (which the Republican Congress blocked, after all it was Obama's idea) they can join the 21st century in the work force and realize that their arguments for their loss of livelihood was not immigration, religious beliefs, minorities, or jobs shipped over seas, but a yuge technology wave that has become a tsunami and takes constant education and upgrading to keep up. No different than the medical field that I have been in for 43 years. It has changed tremendously and has required constant education and training to stay current.
This is the failure of our country and their parties focus on social issues as opposed to economic issues.
We can hope that is true, but it is not. They are something. Unfortunately Trump allowed many to let their inner thoughts become vocal. Through education and job vocation training (which the Republican Congress blocked, after all it was Obama's idea) they can join the 21st century in the work force and realize that their arguments for their loss of livelihood was not immigration, religious beliefs, minorities, or jobs shipped over seas, but a yuge technology wave that has become a tsunami and takes constant education and upgrading to keep up. No different than the medical field that I have been in for 43 years. It has changed tremendously and has required constant education and training to stay current.
This is the failure of our country and their parties focus on social issues as opposed to economic issues.
2
Apparently, no commenter here bothered to read Ann Coulter's 2015 bestseller "Adios America..."
She explained very cogently why Romney lost: Millions of middle-Americans, blue-collar Reagan Democrats, stayed home. So while the pundits said it was because he lost badly the "Hispanic vote", that was a lie. He failed to get out the "white vote". All he needs was a 4% increase.
Trump will surpass the Romney numbers.
She explained very cogently why Romney lost: Millions of middle-Americans, blue-collar Reagan Democrats, stayed home. So while the pundits said it was because he lost badly the "Hispanic vote", that was a lie. He failed to get out the "white vote". All he needs was a 4% increase.
Trump will surpass the Romney numbers.
10
"More Hispanic voters have already cast their ballots in the early voting period than in the entire 2012 election."
Millions of people stay home every election.
Millions of people stay home every election.
2
I couldn't agree more.
If anyone thinks that Trump was flying in the face of RNC polling, they are sorely mistaken.
The famed "autopsy" of 2012 had a public face and a private one.
Publicly, they talked about diversity, privately they were looking to dial up the white vote, and Trump was their guy from the start.
If anyone thinks that Trump was flying in the face of RNC polling, they are sorely mistaken.
The famed "autopsy" of 2012 had a public face and a private one.
Publicly, they talked about diversity, privately they were looking to dial up the white vote, and Trump was their guy from the start.
2
Ann Coulter has a rather strained relationship with the truth.
2
You say his supporters have stood with him"attack after attack." This is a manipulative sentence. More accurately you could have said they have stood by him one sexist or racist rant after another. They have ignored his suggestions of actions that would be war crimes and he has insulted the military. These are the things his deplorable supporters have stood by him through.
22
"Trump gave the crowd an ultimatum: the movement he started will end if he loses on Tuesday night."
Good.
If that isn't a reason to defeat him, right now, nothing is.
Good.
If that isn't a reason to defeat him, right now, nothing is.
29
Movement! I don't know about you, but using the word "movement" to describe the interaction between this serial liar and his naive lemmings just does not register for me. This is a "movement", really?
1
Think "bowel," Claude.
This this is what the "uneducated" sound like, I guess. They don't read much, they have not learned critical thinking, fame (no matter what the reason) bedazzles them. Scary that they are such a large segment of our population. Seems like America should spend a whole lot more money on education when Mrs. Clinton is president. Serious money.
48
Definitely. It's clear we need a "Manhattan Program" for education. The emphasis should be on honing critical thinking skills!
4
What a snarky comment. But typical of the liberal left. So condescending. Nice.
2
"It was a poetic antithesis to Senator Bernie Sanders’s rallying cry after he lost the Democratic primary, that “the movement continues.”
This is utter hogwash. Many in the Republican Party have been arguing to care for the disenfranchised White voters whom Democrats so gleefully give the finger. Trump is a marketing huckster, tried out some acidic lines, and ran with it in extremis. It is enough to make most of us sick, but we have watched the race-baiting strategies of Democrats for so long that we should not be surprised when it is leveraged on Whites.
I know this for certain. If America was criminally negligent for ignoring the plight of 10% of our population, Blacks, while they slid further into dysfunction and despair, you will be horrified when this victimization settles in to the significantly larger portion of our population who identity as White and are tallying up their grievances with leadership.
This is utter hogwash. Many in the Republican Party have been arguing to care for the disenfranchised White voters whom Democrats so gleefully give the finger. Trump is a marketing huckster, tried out some acidic lines, and ran with it in extremis. It is enough to make most of us sick, but we have watched the race-baiting strategies of Democrats for so long that we should not be surprised when it is leveraged on Whites.
I know this for certain. If America was criminally negligent for ignoring the plight of 10% of our population, Blacks, while they slid further into dysfunction and despair, you will be horrified when this victimization settles in to the significantly larger portion of our population who identity as White and are tallying up their grievances with leadership.
5
And you think Trump, who was sued for denying rental apartments to black renters will be their savior? You're pretty impressionable. As for whose giving the "disenfranchised" white voters the finger, why that would be the republicans in Congress. Actually the white voters who barely read and get their "news" from social media, Fox and Breitbart are not disenfranchised, the Republicans have been consistently attempting to disenfranchise the minority voters in this country.
2
@George
They certainly are irredeemable aren't they?
They certainly are irredeemable aren't they?
1
If America looses, it is because of Trump.
America has always been Great, from moment the first pilgrim left their footsteps upon the sands of Plymouth where they were welcomed by Native Americans who kept them from starving to death that first winter.
Native Americans include all the indigenous people whom Trump now wants to build walls to keep out.
In fact, we CEASED to be Great the moment we embraced those who denigrate others, taunt, lie, avoid paying their share and abuse women.
Make America Great again.
DEFEAT TRUMP!
America has always been Great, from moment the first pilgrim left their footsteps upon the sands of Plymouth where they were welcomed by Native Americans who kept them from starving to death that first winter.
Native Americans include all the indigenous people whom Trump now wants to build walls to keep out.
In fact, we CEASED to be Great the moment we embraced those who denigrate others, taunt, lie, avoid paying their share and abuse women.
Make America Great again.
DEFEAT TRUMP!
16
Democracy died when PAC's and special interest groups bought our politicians. Where Hillary Rodham Clinton is at the top of the garbage heap. Let's not blame this all on Trump shall we? Why don't you blame the fall of the Roman Empire on him as well.
1
No one blamed Trump for anything until he started claiming America was no longer "great", crudely taunting his rivals in unprecedented diatribes. You remember any other candidate in your lifetime who called his rival a liar and a crook and crowed that he would have her jailed/indicted the minute he was elected president?
Isn't that enough? Or do you want me to continue?
Isn't that enough? Or do you want me to continue?
1
Here's my local take....
Trump supporters are vocal, and proud of who they're voting for. Local news report listed a woman sporting a Hillary bumper sticker being nearly driven off the road by a Trump supporter in a pickup. Trumpsters are very vocal and out in force at the usual downtown spots (Unconditional Surrender statue, etc.).
Since "the season" is beginning down here, I've noticed more winter residents back in town and putting out their HRC signs in my neighborhood.
There is support for both candidates, based on the editorials in the local paper. But I have to think that if there's a "quiet group" out there, it's voting for Hillary. They might not sing her praises on their bumpers or on their front lawns, but they will in the voting booth (or have already in early voting). They just don't want to be run off the road.
Trump supporters are vocal, and proud of who they're voting for. Local news report listed a woman sporting a Hillary bumper sticker being nearly driven off the road by a Trump supporter in a pickup. Trumpsters are very vocal and out in force at the usual downtown spots (Unconditional Surrender statue, etc.).
Since "the season" is beginning down here, I've noticed more winter residents back in town and putting out their HRC signs in my neighborhood.
There is support for both candidates, based on the editorials in the local paper. But I have to think that if there's a "quiet group" out there, it's voting for Hillary. They might not sing her praises on their bumpers or on their front lawns, but they will in the voting booth (or have already in early voting). They just don't want to be run off the road.
210
Exactly. Though I have strong political opinions (generally of the left-wing variety) I refuse to use bumper stickers or yard signs. I don't want the vandalism, threats and abuse that will come with them.
2
Anybody who dares to put an HRC sign on their lawn where I live risks, at best, a brick through her window. Cars with Clinton, Sanders, Johnston, or Stein bumper stickers routinely get their finish seriously keyed. I have a sign in my window that says PUTIN/TRUMP Making Russia Great Again. I've been counting on the fact that the real alt-right lunatics who back Trump haven't been able to figure out that it NOT a sign for Trump.
1
Local news publishes an unsupported report that a woman was "nearly" driven off the road and assumes it was because she had a Hillary bumper sticker. The same media outlet has not reported on the number of Republican and/or Trump local headquarters that have been attacked or vandalized. They haven't reported that Hillary campaign events are being picketed by Haitians who want to know what Bill did with the billions in humanitarian aid that were donated after the 2010 earthquake, other than to pay his friends to not build infrastructure and hue consulting fees. They haven't reported that the violence at Trump rallies was committed by operatives paid by the DNC. They are unconcerned that BLM was violent at the beginning of the Democrat primary process until both candidates blessed their activities.
1
Emma,
There are also people who say similar things about Blacks who are taken by bus to do the good Democratic duty and vote for the party of civil rights, in spite of the fact that little economic or social progress has followed from their policies (I know, it's still White bigots' fault). And you can already see the many stories about how Hispanics are not given sufficient instructions in Spanish so that they, too, can do the right thing and vote for the Democrat who will protect their ability to stay in the US.
All of this seems harsh and racist, and I am repelled to write it. But I need for you, in this safe space that is like an echo chamber, to understand that the Liberal side of our country is fanning this division as much as the so-called Trump side. Although, right now, I don't think I can call Trump true-believers a Conservative bunch. They are struggling. They want answers. The Democratic Party who for so long championed their needs has fallen for a new sweetheart: with all these estranged immigrants and the Black perma-vote, Democrats are literally wringing their hands in glee and trying to find a way to politely tell White Americans that they "brought it on themselves".
It is truly sad, this way we chop up our population.
At least you can say that predestination is alive and well in the Democratic Party, or so they would have us believe.
For me, I intend to look at and work with people as Americans, worshiping with all colors as is my nuclear family.
There are also people who say similar things about Blacks who are taken by bus to do the good Democratic duty and vote for the party of civil rights, in spite of the fact that little economic or social progress has followed from their policies (I know, it's still White bigots' fault). And you can already see the many stories about how Hispanics are not given sufficient instructions in Spanish so that they, too, can do the right thing and vote for the Democrat who will protect their ability to stay in the US.
All of this seems harsh and racist, and I am repelled to write it. But I need for you, in this safe space that is like an echo chamber, to understand that the Liberal side of our country is fanning this division as much as the so-called Trump side. Although, right now, I don't think I can call Trump true-believers a Conservative bunch. They are struggling. They want answers. The Democratic Party who for so long championed their needs has fallen for a new sweetheart: with all these estranged immigrants and the Black perma-vote, Democrats are literally wringing their hands in glee and trying to find a way to politely tell White Americans that they "brought it on themselves".
It is truly sad, this way we chop up our population.
At least you can say that predestination is alive and well in the Democratic Party, or so they would have us believe.
For me, I intend to look at and work with people as Americans, worshiping with all colors as is my nuclear family.
4
Trump is the ultimate conman, and his followers have bought it. There is nothing in Trumps policy proposals (using the term loosely) that would benefit the demographic from which he draws most of his support. Protectionism won't bring back manufacturing jobs, and cutting taxes on the rich will not help unemployed blue collar workers pay the rent and put food on the table. Furthermore, most of his actions have shown him to be immoral and selfish. Everything we know about him suggests that, if elected, Trump would use his power to enrich himself and persecute anyone who doesn't suck up to him. It's amazing the con has gotten this far.
3
This is a solid comment from among the 170+ insofar as it teases out an important reality among the many in this election cycle.
Truth - both "sides" ARE guilty of ignorance and destructive "naming" behavior.
All one has to do is read the title of Ms. Roller's piece. To my ear, using "these people" is akin to Trump and his supporters making blanket statements about immigrant latinos or urban blacks or, or, or...
As Stuart writes, both sides ARE highlighting that which divides or, rather, using naming language that results in such. Using "these people" is just more evidence of such.
Disappointing.
Not sure about the rest of Stuart's comment, but many, many, many people ARE struggling. White, black, brown, urban or rural--people are looking for answers. Solutions can only come from citizens working together. Thus work is not easy when ignorance rules the day.
To me, the use of "these people" is understandable, but it evidences ignorance, perhaps even a "smarter than you" attitude, an unwillingness to be vulnerable in seeing the other in self.
T'is akin to the I-IT relationship David Brooks spoke of last week. Perhaps this makes sense. Perhaps it doesn't.
Regardless, may we keep working to I-Thou relationships and to the point where writers like Ms. Rollers title their informative pieces, "If Trump Wins Florida, It's Because Our People Feel This Way."
That would be more accurate, healthy and, yes, more interesting!
Truth - both "sides" ARE guilty of ignorance and destructive "naming" behavior.
All one has to do is read the title of Ms. Roller's piece. To my ear, using "these people" is akin to Trump and his supporters making blanket statements about immigrant latinos or urban blacks or, or, or...
As Stuart writes, both sides ARE highlighting that which divides or, rather, using naming language that results in such. Using "these people" is just more evidence of such.
Disappointing.
Not sure about the rest of Stuart's comment, but many, many, many people ARE struggling. White, black, brown, urban or rural--people are looking for answers. Solutions can only come from citizens working together. Thus work is not easy when ignorance rules the day.
To me, the use of "these people" is understandable, but it evidences ignorance, perhaps even a "smarter than you" attitude, an unwillingness to be vulnerable in seeing the other in self.
T'is akin to the I-IT relationship David Brooks spoke of last week. Perhaps this makes sense. Perhaps it doesn't.
Regardless, may we keep working to I-Thou relationships and to the point where writers like Ms. Rollers title their informative pieces, "If Trump Wins Florida, It's Because Our People Feel This Way."
That would be more accurate, healthy and, yes, more interesting!
2
Much has been written about various segments of the population not understanding each other. I, for one, can not for the life of me understand how people can support that man, if they are not bigots and think at all.
I get that some on the far right are racist, misogynist, and xenophobes. I certainly hear that some folks feel left behind. That said, though, I cannot understand how people can write off or rationalize all Trump's hatred, sexual abuse and racism; how they can cheer his vague, huge promises and not care that he offers not a shred of a suggestion of how he's going to bring back their jobs or deport 11 million people or put Hillary in prison. I look at the pictures; they look reasonably sane and normal, but...
I get that some on the far right are racist, misogynist, and xenophobes. I certainly hear that some folks feel left behind. That said, though, I cannot understand how people can write off or rationalize all Trump's hatred, sexual abuse and racism; how they can cheer his vague, huge promises and not care that he offers not a shred of a suggestion of how he's going to bring back their jobs or deport 11 million people or put Hillary in prison. I look at the pictures; they look reasonably sane and normal, but...
75
That is exactly how many people feel about Hillary's supporters.
2
Typical partisan ignorance and intolerance from NYT "verified commenter". These folks are clearly chose solely for their ideological purity and not the quality of their comments.
1
For Donald Trump, it's the thrill of the campaign, the adoring crowds, the chance to shoot from the hip and get roaring laughter. But what of his unlikely election? He would grow bored with being president. He's no public servant, statesman, commander in chief, he's a showman. And after the election, what then? I hope for everyone's sake -- including Donald Trump's -- it ends here today.
51
Just before school started back in September, I was shopping in the Rego Park Target out in Queens. I saw a 30-something year old man who had been caught shoplifting being hauled to the front office. He had stolen a little girls backpack.
We have millions of people across America who are invisible and suffering. They are white, black, brown and yellow. They have no support structure left - church, school, community - because all of these entities have been eviscerated for the greater, homogenous good of "one nation". For the past 16 years - starting with our endless cycle of war, then felled by the Great Recession - our political leaders have focused on so many priorities of the "needy" - the needs of the warmongers, the needs of fat cats of Wall St., the needs of the elite of the tech world, the needs of the special interest who pull the levers of power.
The only needs our political leaders haven't focused on our the needs of the American people.
The Trump rally Ms Roller so diligently dissects is just one face, and an ugly one at that, of the pain that is happening in America. Yet, it does not mitigate that the pain is real.
It is not Donald Trump, it is not Hillary Clinton, that will "redeem" us. It is only we the people when we re-take control of our government and re-bend it to the will of the people - not the blandishments of the elite and the lever pullers - will we return to some civility in this country. And we may well be beyond that point.
We have millions of people across America who are invisible and suffering. They are white, black, brown and yellow. They have no support structure left - church, school, community - because all of these entities have been eviscerated for the greater, homogenous good of "one nation". For the past 16 years - starting with our endless cycle of war, then felled by the Great Recession - our political leaders have focused on so many priorities of the "needy" - the needs of the warmongers, the needs of fat cats of Wall St., the needs of the elite of the tech world, the needs of the special interest who pull the levers of power.
The only needs our political leaders haven't focused on our the needs of the American people.
The Trump rally Ms Roller so diligently dissects is just one face, and an ugly one at that, of the pain that is happening in America. Yet, it does not mitigate that the pain is real.
It is not Donald Trump, it is not Hillary Clinton, that will "redeem" us. It is only we the people when we re-take control of our government and re-bend it to the will of the people - not the blandishments of the elite and the lever pullers - will we return to some civility in this country. And we may well be beyond that point.
25
No- after Trump there is no more "We The People":
It's "We The People" and "Those People".
The horror is that if the GOP had nominated a less loathsome self-disciplined candidate and had a more effective campaign, they would have engineered a Turkish-style nation. This election has unmasked the GOP's concept of good government - proto-Fascism.
It's "We The People" and "Those People".
The horror is that if the GOP had nominated a less loathsome self-disciplined candidate and had a more effective campaign, they would have engineered a Turkish-style nation. This election has unmasked the GOP's concept of good government - proto-Fascism.
3
If our elected officials actually worked for their constituency instead of being wined and dined by special interest groups and worrying about getting re-elected perhaps things might get accomplished. Electing HRC won't change a thing in DC, not a thing.
2
I think Trump's support stems much more from ignorance and bigotry than it does from "pain".
1
The hatred coming from Trump supporters is palpable, visible, material, almost tangible.
You allow your children to watch a Trump rally as a lesson in democracy at your peril.
The hatred in the slogans and chants; the rude gestures; the frighteningly aggressive words and moves against the free press sitting in their not so free "pen"; the racism and sexism and xenophobia proudly on display; the promises to jail the opposition; the actual physical assaults on protesters and the all too feasible threats of armed violence against Hillary and her newly installed Administration are not the scenes of a democratic two party system at work that I would want as a lesson to any child - or adult, for that matter.
Yes, 9/11 changed our country, our world, our lives in America forever, to a degree unimaginable before that nightmare, brought to us by our enemies- foreign.
But the election of 2016 will also be looked at as an event that changed our country, our world, our lives and the view of our country by our allies and enemies alike around the world, brought to us by our enemies - domestic.
But I see this difference.
After 9/11 we rallied, we never even thought about the race or sex or religion or ethnicity or immigration status of the first responders running into the building as everyone else ran out, or of those factors in the people who died.
But the Trump camp promises more hate, and division and violence and obstruction after 2016 election.
Deplorable.
You allow your children to watch a Trump rally as a lesson in democracy at your peril.
The hatred in the slogans and chants; the rude gestures; the frighteningly aggressive words and moves against the free press sitting in their not so free "pen"; the racism and sexism and xenophobia proudly on display; the promises to jail the opposition; the actual physical assaults on protesters and the all too feasible threats of armed violence against Hillary and her newly installed Administration are not the scenes of a democratic two party system at work that I would want as a lesson to any child - or adult, for that matter.
Yes, 9/11 changed our country, our world, our lives in America forever, to a degree unimaginable before that nightmare, brought to us by our enemies- foreign.
But the election of 2016 will also be looked at as an event that changed our country, our world, our lives and the view of our country by our allies and enemies alike around the world, brought to us by our enemies - domestic.
But I see this difference.
After 9/11 we rallied, we never even thought about the race or sex or religion or ethnicity or immigration status of the first responders running into the building as everyone else ran out, or of those factors in the people who died.
But the Trump camp promises more hate, and division and violence and obstruction after 2016 election.
Deplorable.
295
"After 9/11 we rallied... "
Our reaction to 9/11 was indeed a turning point in this country - but not for the good. It was really a missed opportunity to show the world that we are better than those that attacked us - we could have truly triumphed and progressed.
Instead we reacted to violence with more violence. ANd Donald Trump is further proof that we have a long way to go toward enlightenment.
Our reaction to 9/11 was indeed a turning point in this country - but not for the good. It was really a missed opportunity to show the world that we are better than those that attacked us - we could have truly triumphed and progressed.
Instead we reacted to violence with more violence. ANd Donald Trump is further proof that we have a long way to go toward enlightenment.
The best manager I ever worked for came out of the Army. He once told me In the Army you not only can't fire anyone you don't really get to pick them either.
You can curse the Trump supporters all you want, but you can't fire them. We need to understand why they feel the way they do and change the society that shaped them.
Here's the problem in two words- decent jobs. Corporate control drove decent jobs to the South where there were no unions in the '60's and 70's, then to China after that. Now automation and immigration are the next threats.
Clinton, if she stays true to form, is simply going to not just kick the skunk, but feed it steroids.
You can curse the Trump supporters all you want, but you can't fire them. We need to understand why they feel the way they do and change the society that shaped them.
Here's the problem in two words- decent jobs. Corporate control drove decent jobs to the South where there were no unions in the '60's and 70's, then to China after that. Now automation and immigration are the next threats.
Clinton, if she stays true to form, is simply going to not just kick the skunk, but feed it steroids.
1
Apparently, you dont see the constant intolerance and hatred shown by the liberals in the NYT comment thread.
The hypocrisy of the NYT and its readers is laughable.
The hypocrisy of the NYT and its readers is laughable.
In generally Donald Trump & his family the NY residence But headwaters of two Candidates in your town not very far. Currently wee not to calculate how many voyters got MRS.Hilllary Clinton thanks Berni Sanders. It’s very “left” candidate – reported against US corporation and liked poor men.
Meanwhile WP now published last pre-ele.spesch of Rep.Candidate Mr.Donald Trump with big group teem candidate of vice-pr. Mike Pence, daughter Ivanka.
The NYT right now to wrote about possible sucsses Tump’ in Florida. Here 29 electoral voters og General Colleges.
But necessary to Additionals supplement about catholic Church send e-mal from San-Diego for elect on Donald Trump. How Mr Trump could to agreement with Vatican – I dom’t now.
Of course NY’s residence will vote for Hillary Clinton apparently the employment in NY state more the in Washington.
I think in 4 years will be new elec.battke between currently candidate of Mr.Trump not win today , Altoought today start in New-Hamp. Very well for him.
Meanwhile WP now published last pre-ele.spesch of Rep.Candidate Mr.Donald Trump with big group teem candidate of vice-pr. Mike Pence, daughter Ivanka.
The NYT right now to wrote about possible sucsses Tump’ in Florida. Here 29 electoral voters og General Colleges.
But necessary to Additionals supplement about catholic Church send e-mal from San-Diego for elect on Donald Trump. How Mr Trump could to agreement with Vatican – I dom’t now.
Of course NY’s residence will vote for Hillary Clinton apparently the employment in NY state more the in Washington.
I think in 4 years will be new elec.battke between currently candidate of Mr.Trump not win today , Altoought today start in New-Hamp. Very well for him.
4
One thing that can be said without hesitation is that "the faithful" no longer are role models. I'm talking about the ministers, the holier-than-thous, the haughty the boy scouts who raise their three fingers and swear "On my honor, I will do my best. To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law; To help other people at all times; To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight."
Paul Ryan?
Mitch McConnell?
The Donald?
These are/were the GOOD GUYS?
Ryan sells out after promising not to support Trump.
McConnell swore to block every move our President made to move the nation forward.
The Donald?
....THE DONALD?
The below are but a the tiniest fraction of those who have given everything for America:
George Washington
Abraham Lincoln
Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Captain Humayun Khan
Who would you vote for, America?
Paul Ryan?
Mitch McConnell?
The Donald?
These are/were the GOOD GUYS?
Ryan sells out after promising not to support Trump.
McConnell swore to block every move our President made to move the nation forward.
The Donald?
....THE DONALD?
The below are but a the tiniest fraction of those who have given everything for America:
George Washington
Abraham Lincoln
Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Captain Humayun Khan
Who would you vote for, America?
27
When normal politicians change their minds we label it flip-flopping or – more kindly – “evolving” in their thinking. When a Master Persuader does it, you are seeing pacing and leading.
a. Trump paced his base by saying he would deport 11 million undocumented immigrants. Once he had his base on his side emotionally, he led to them to his current policy of deporting only the people who committed crimes while here. Have you heard any Trump supporters complain about it lately?
b. Trump paced his base by saying he would ban all Muslim immigration to stop terrorist infiltration. Once he had them on his side emotionally, he led them first to a ban on specific problem countries, and then again to “extreme vetting,” which is a lot like Clinton’s plan. Trump supporters followed, and you don’t hear them complaining.
c. Early in the primaries Trump paced the racists in the Republican party by not disavowing them as clearly and as loudly as even the racists thought he would. Since then he has led Republicans to think that some form of a “New Deal” for African-Americans might be worth a look.
In my opinion, Trump might be the safest president we have ever had. He can lead the dark parts of his base toward the light (as Nixon went to China) and he has no incentive for war. Claims about his “temperament” are mostly about his penchant for insults, and that isn’t a mortal danger to anyone.
a. Trump paced his base by saying he would deport 11 million undocumented immigrants. Once he had his base on his side emotionally, he led to them to his current policy of deporting only the people who committed crimes while here. Have you heard any Trump supporters complain about it lately?
b. Trump paced his base by saying he would ban all Muslim immigration to stop terrorist infiltration. Once he had them on his side emotionally, he led them first to a ban on specific problem countries, and then again to “extreme vetting,” which is a lot like Clinton’s plan. Trump supporters followed, and you don’t hear them complaining.
c. Early in the primaries Trump paced the racists in the Republican party by not disavowing them as clearly and as loudly as even the racists thought he would. Since then he has led Republicans to think that some form of a “New Deal” for African-Americans might be worth a look.
In my opinion, Trump might be the safest president we have ever had. He can lead the dark parts of his base toward the light (as Nixon went to China) and he has no incentive for war. Claims about his “temperament” are mostly about his penchant for insults, and that isn’t a mortal danger to anyone.
4
So, Ignacio Couce, you're saying that Mr. Trump would be a good president because he "isn't a mortal danger to anyone?"
That would be the funniest remark ever made by a human being on earth -- if it weren't, at the same time, evidence of how stupid human beings can be.
That would be the funniest remark ever made by a human being on earth -- if it weren't, at the same time, evidence of how stupid human beings can be.
Emma,Trump supporters who've already voted and planning to vote for Trump nationwide will have an awakening at the end of today's election.
They'll ask themselves "why in the hell we supported a demagogue whose every words were nothing but vile."
I think next time they go their churches and their synagogues and temples, they'll have to ask Jesus or Moses or any other prophets they believe in, "was it okay to side with a man who always talked about suppressing or deporting hard working people who came to our country and working their butts out for almost a penny? Why we sided with a man whose only intention was to win this election through dividing the country on racial and communal and religious lines."
Yes, there are lot of questions that all the Trump's supporters who're 95% White,have to ask the almighty and if they really listen to their heart they'll find out that it was almost criminal to support a man who behaved mostly the Devil himself.
And I've a special advise for the evangelicals who're planning to vote for Trump today, "Just don't do it."
Those great evangelicals for whom I always had lot of admiration should follow the lead of those brave students from the Liberty University who wrote a letter to their president Jerry Falwell Jr.,saying they cannot consciously support a presidential candidate who not only abused women sexually and verbally for a major part of his life but also bragged about it in that infamous tape.
Jesus will ask them, "Why you strayed ?"
They'll ask themselves "why in the hell we supported a demagogue whose every words were nothing but vile."
I think next time they go their churches and their synagogues and temples, they'll have to ask Jesus or Moses or any other prophets they believe in, "was it okay to side with a man who always talked about suppressing or deporting hard working people who came to our country and working their butts out for almost a penny? Why we sided with a man whose only intention was to win this election through dividing the country on racial and communal and religious lines."
Yes, there are lot of questions that all the Trump's supporters who're 95% White,have to ask the almighty and if they really listen to their heart they'll find out that it was almost criminal to support a man who behaved mostly the Devil himself.
And I've a special advise for the evangelicals who're planning to vote for Trump today, "Just don't do it."
Those great evangelicals for whom I always had lot of admiration should follow the lead of those brave students from the Liberty University who wrote a letter to their president Jerry Falwell Jr.,saying they cannot consciously support a presidential candidate who not only abused women sexually and verbally for a major part of his life but also bragged about it in that infamous tape.
Jesus will ask them, "Why you strayed ?"
8
Don't hold your breath.
1
I have only one question for the people in Florida and for Trump supporters everywhere - What are you going to do when you discover that the real policies your heroes will be implementing hurt you just as much as those brown people you blame for all of your problems? When Ryan voucherizes your Medicare and cuts your Social Security how will you live?
Think about it.
Think about it.
41
These people can't think at all. I remember Ryan coming to The Villages in Fl in 2012 and whipping the crowd into a lather against "Big Government" -- and they were holding signs saying "hands off my Medicare!"
These people are the reason I feel too frightened to put out a Clinton sign as I am a woman living alone. I am one of those people who has never missed an election and who has been waiting for this moment for decades, so I am bummed I feel so unsafe that I can't visibly support my candidate. I have felt passionately about candidates, but this thirst for vengeance and support of violence is a new low for this country. Donald Trump has much to answer for with his intentional encouragement of violent hatred.
48
I heard of the whispers at a Florida home for the elderly, that Hillary plans to get their doctors to terminate them, in order to save money.
If Trump wins Florida, it might be because of such nonsense.
If Trump wins Florida, it might be because of such nonsense.
22
I have been thinking about today's GOP all wrong, considering it a tribe. But that does the term tribe an injustice - today's GOP is nothing more and nothing less than a cult. The difference lies in the nature of the beliefs - specifically, abnormal, indeed strange, beliefs. There is nothing normal about the set of beliefs espoused by the people described here. Downright strange is more accurate, and downright frightening. Consider the number of votes cast today for Trump, consider the nature of those who cast them, and then consider what that portends for our nation's future. Because those people, and those beliefs, aren't going away after today. Fox will make sure of that.
56
Evidently, the people interviewed have strange logic. The navy recruiter and the Fidel Castro hating pair don't seem to mind their candidate is cozying up to Putin, who wants to return Russia to the imperial past - the USSR that was behind the Castro's Cuba
96
These people don´t understand the concept of logic. They are the citizens who seek to control womens´ bodies and protect zygotes that they deem more valuable than living breathing human women, and at the same time cut education, not support day care or health care once a baby is born. They seek a return to a past that never was, they want a world without information. They bemoan jobs lost to automation & outsourcing abroad by blaming migrants coming into the US for "stealing their jobs" at the same time as they support corporations who locate jobs where they choose. They vote for a leech whose bankruptcies our taxes have covered and who does not pay taxes at the same time as they accuse other people at their low income level of being leeches. They depend on medicare, social security and government handouts while seeking to eliminate them. They are pretty well insane.
2
Excellent point. And here's another: I think the reason Obama moved to have an accommodation with Castro is that he sensed (or knew) that if he didn't, Putin would move in, would extend assistance to Castro, and ---at some point--that would lead to a replay of the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis. It was easier to "shake hands" with Castro, and let history take its course, as Cuba slowly moves towards freedom, than to risk Mr. Putin making mischief in our backyard.
1
Nor, apparently, do the Cubans mind that Trump broke the embargo in an attempt to do business with Fidel...
1
Let him take his pudgy salacious paws off my Country where some of us go far back to the first Governor of Maryland, Richard Bennett. Thinking of my Great-Grandfather, a doctor at 19, wounded four times in the Confederate Army, his daughter, Ethel Browne, a scientist whose name is to be found in 'Notable Women of the 20th Century'. My ancestor, and Great Aunt, daughter-in-law to Charles Carroll (the only Catholic signer of The Act of Independence), Molly Browne, she had spirit.
If there is one thing that Trump has done, it is to turn this American into a snob by awakening 'trash mentality', and creating impoverished ways of behaving among the People of America. We are better than this. Some of his followers are far brighter than he is.
Earlier I saw for the first time in the valley where I live, signs posted for Clinton and Kaine, it was new beginnings under the autumn sky, a feeling of hope restored that in the end, Americans will reconcile and mend their differences with hard work, but belief in The Land of the Bold.
If there is one thing that Trump has done, it is to turn this American into a snob by awakening 'trash mentality', and creating impoverished ways of behaving among the People of America. We are better than this. Some of his followers are far brighter than he is.
Earlier I saw for the first time in the valley where I live, signs posted for Clinton and Kaine, it was new beginnings under the autumn sky, a feeling of hope restored that in the end, Americans will reconcile and mend their differences with hard work, but belief in The Land of the Bold.
35
When Hillary wins we can then give Trump the foam finger. although anyone with any class (unlike Trump) would not stoop so low. Go away, Donald. Take a trip abroad and witness others' relief that you will not be leading our country....
30
A blurry Trump blob with a bunch of mostly white people in near darkness? It seems like a still from a horror movie.
Wait a second...
Wait a second...
31
The only thing missing are the torches and white hats.
2
As a Clinton volunteer in this election, I having been registering and now calling voters. The Republican registrants were fairly civilized as we were
not identifying as Clinton supporters. But call a Trump voter, and you are told where you can stick it or worse, threatened with calling the police for having their phone number and of course, obscenities regarding Hillary. So far the " winner" is the man who described himself having qualms because he was "religious " .When I pointed out Trump's treatment of women , he countered that Trump had apologized, so he was absolved. But Hillary's
role as Secretary of State was evil , this voter stated because she let those poor soldiers die in BOSNIA. I did not bother to correct him.
The battle gear of Trump followers is also mind-bending. The obscenities on their shirts, worn by their children as well, and the profane buttons with sexual and racial descriptions of Hillary, Bill and of course Obama, are sold in the local Republican headquarters for fun and profit. Yesterday as other volunteers and I were dialing through our last cycle of voters, a fellow caller showed me photos he had taken at the headquarters of at least a dozen deplorable and disgusting buttons. Our buttons read Clinton/ Kaine, Love Trumps Hate, I'm With Her and the H and arrow combo designating forward progress. Put those buttons side by side and you see the Clinton/Trump contest for what it is. I'm with her.
not identifying as Clinton supporters. But call a Trump voter, and you are told where you can stick it or worse, threatened with calling the police for having their phone number and of course, obscenities regarding Hillary. So far the " winner" is the man who described himself having qualms because he was "religious " .When I pointed out Trump's treatment of women , he countered that Trump had apologized, so he was absolved. But Hillary's
role as Secretary of State was evil , this voter stated because she let those poor soldiers die in BOSNIA. I did not bother to correct him.
The battle gear of Trump followers is also mind-bending. The obscenities on their shirts, worn by their children as well, and the profane buttons with sexual and racial descriptions of Hillary, Bill and of course Obama, are sold in the local Republican headquarters for fun and profit. Yesterday as other volunteers and I were dialing through our last cycle of voters, a fellow caller showed me photos he had taken at the headquarters of at least a dozen deplorable and disgusting buttons. Our buttons read Clinton/ Kaine, Love Trumps Hate, I'm With Her and the H and arrow combo designating forward progress. Put those buttons side by side and you see the Clinton/Trump contest for what it is. I'm with her.
127
I'm not affiliated with either party so, this post is from the heart!!
I couldn't sleep and while searching for online entertainment, I came across this story & it did not disappoint, especially the comments section. I'm curious, how do people make comments such as the few I read, degrading their fellow Americans??? Although amusing, I begin to feel ashamed of America's people. Have we sunk so low until we HATE one another? This is so so Sad for us as a Nation!!
I couldn't sleep and while searching for online entertainment, I came across this story & it did not disappoint, especially the comments section. I'm curious, how do people make comments such as the few I read, degrading their fellow Americans??? Although amusing, I begin to feel ashamed of America's people. Have we sunk so low until we HATE one another? This is so so Sad for us as a Nation!!
14
Could not agree more. This thread runs through not only these comments but also the editorial page of the Times. Regarding the first, it's as if the issues raised by Trump and his supporters (however regretfully the manner) aren't real. Immigration? In 1986, over 3 million people were given amnesty provided that boarder security was enhanced. Today, there are, perhaps, 11 million illegals here making a mockery of US immigration policy. Will we do this again in 20 years for 10 or 20 million more people? Who can say? The result is a country population is significantly directed by those who come here illegally. No country in history has countenanced such a sea change in its population decided by those entering the country. Regarding the second point about the Times Ed Board, today's editorial goes after Comey again without, as far as I could see, an acknowledgement that Clinton and her cabal were the creators of the entire email situation by first installing a server and then by mishandling many, many emails. This doesn't even touch on those destroyed. The July assessment made clear that Clinton's behavior was, in fact, deplorable. Further, her entire primary run with the support of the DNC was shameful. Credit Bernie with swallowing his pride and looking past the slights and tipped scales he faced.
I find many comments here and fervent Clinton supporters, in many ways, as distasteful as some of these Trump supporters.
I find many comments here and fervent Clinton supporters, in many ways, as distasteful as some of these Trump supporters.
1
The hatred expressed in the Times comments section(s) is pretty deep. Progressives abhor anyone who doesn't think (if that's what you want to call it) like them, feel like them, and generally make a mess of things like them.
1
I hope Florida is smarter than this. Heck, I very much hope that America is smarter than that!
65
Me too.........vote smart easterners, vote
TRUMP today and for 8 more years
TRUMP today and for 8 more years
3
"[Janice Gaddy] expressed frustration at Republicans in Congress for not going far enough to block President Obama’s agenda.
"'What have they done?' she asked. 'We gave them a Republican Senate and we gave them a Republican Congress, and they have let Obama do everything that he wanted.'"
To the first (rhetorical) question, the answer is nothing. As for letting Obama do everything he wanted, if by this she means the opposite, then I agree. It would be difficult to number the Republican voters in the Deep South who feel the same way Mrs. Gaddy feels. This is not what they think; it's what they feel.
How could anyone be so ill-informed?, one might ask. Sadly, it's common.
From last week's New Yorker: "A second group of people enjoy political news as a recreation, following it with the partisan devotion of sports fans, and [Jason] Brennan [author of "Against Democracy"] calls them hooligans." Hobbits are people who don't bother to learn about politics at all. And vulcans are those "who investigate politics with scientific objectivity, respect opposing points of view, and carefully adjust their opinions to the facts, which they seek out diligently." Alas, the first two outnumber the third fifty thousand to one.
"'What have they done?' she asked. 'We gave them a Republican Senate and we gave them a Republican Congress, and they have let Obama do everything that he wanted.'"
To the first (rhetorical) question, the answer is nothing. As for letting Obama do everything he wanted, if by this she means the opposite, then I agree. It would be difficult to number the Republican voters in the Deep South who feel the same way Mrs. Gaddy feels. This is not what they think; it's what they feel.
How could anyone be so ill-informed?, one might ask. Sadly, it's common.
From last week's New Yorker: "A second group of people enjoy political news as a recreation, following it with the partisan devotion of sports fans, and [Jason] Brennan [author of "Against Democracy"] calls them hooligans." Hobbits are people who don't bother to learn about politics at all. And vulcans are those "who investigate politics with scientific objectivity, respect opposing points of view, and carefully adjust their opinions to the facts, which they seek out diligently." Alas, the first two outnumber the third fifty thousand to one.
20
The ignorance in Florida is staggering. These Trump supporters are more than willing to believe the most outlandish falsehoods - and are absolutely hostile to the facts. No matter who wins, it's disgusting and discouraging.
Read the 1st comments, all by Verifieds (Vs) before any nonVs appeared.Here note about interaction among 3 Vs.
I , like Joschka, ask why Roller asks no critical questions. Here an example that led to an exchange between Cohen and Underwood:
Janice Gaddy “I hate that woman. She is evil.” I would like to have heard JG Roller explain what information led her to those judgments. So too did Underwood in these words: “How does she come by this opinion, What brings her to make this kind of statement?” Underwood does not stop there but writes that she is “just like a Nazi talking about a Jew.”
Cohen replies that: “I cannot see one jot of difference between the Janice Gaddy quoted by Emma Roller…and David Underwood…both point a finger and denounce the other’s candidate as evil.”
I expect better of Verifieds. Underwood (with whom I occasionally communicate) cannot possibly know that Janice Gaddy is speaking just like a Nazi. Did she think Hillary Clinton was evil before Donald Trump taught her those phrases? As for Ron Cohen’s seeing not “a jot of difference” is too go too far. Nowhere does Underwood express a view about Trump in the comments and replies before me. Then Underwood and Cohen both engage in meaningless sarcasm.
Perhaps if Emma Roller would do her job better we commenters would be less likely to offer our opinions about the reasons that lead Trump supporters to express themselves as quoted here. Roller could give us the supporters’ own explanations.
Dual citizen
I , like Joschka, ask why Roller asks no critical questions. Here an example that led to an exchange between Cohen and Underwood:
Janice Gaddy “I hate that woman. She is evil.” I would like to have heard JG Roller explain what information led her to those judgments. So too did Underwood in these words: “How does she come by this opinion, What brings her to make this kind of statement?” Underwood does not stop there but writes that she is “just like a Nazi talking about a Jew.”
Cohen replies that: “I cannot see one jot of difference between the Janice Gaddy quoted by Emma Roller…and David Underwood…both point a finger and denounce the other’s candidate as evil.”
I expect better of Verifieds. Underwood (with whom I occasionally communicate) cannot possibly know that Janice Gaddy is speaking just like a Nazi. Did she think Hillary Clinton was evil before Donald Trump taught her those phrases? As for Ron Cohen’s seeing not “a jot of difference” is too go too far. Nowhere does Underwood express a view about Trump in the comments and replies before me. Then Underwood and Cohen both engage in meaningless sarcasm.
Perhaps if Emma Roller would do her job better we commenters would be less likely to offer our opinions about the reasons that lead Trump supporters to express themselves as quoted here. Roller could give us the supporters’ own explanations.
Dual citizen
8
"the supporters’ own explanations"
Don't blame Emma Roller. It's self-expalanatory. These people are willfully ignorant and spiteful and it is no mystery that their "information" comes from Hannity, Fox and the rest of that cesspool.
Don't blame Emma Roller. It's self-expalanatory. These people are willfully ignorant and spiteful and it is no mystery that their "information" comes from Hannity, Fox and the rest of that cesspool.
Mr. Lundgren, I've been made ashamed of myself and my often "mouthy" comments here. I try to control my nastiness, but it gets loose too often, You're right. I will try to do better.
Thanks.
Thanks.
1
@Binx Bolling - Your reply is exactly why I wrote my comment. Neither you nor I know about "these people" Janice Gaddy is a unique individual who gave Emma Roller a standard phrase that tells me only that she is satisfied to repeat a standard phrase of Donald Trump.
Willfully ignorant? Spiteful? I would direct you to a comment by John from Cologne - weeks ago - and his reply to my reply to him. He assured me that his family and friends are all well educated good people who are voting for Trump. Those people were presumably "willfully educated".
Who knows, maybe Janice Gaddy has a college degree. Let her speak for herself.
That's all.
Larry
Willfully ignorant? Spiteful? I would direct you to a comment by John from Cologne - weeks ago - and his reply to my reply to him. He assured me that his family and friends are all well educated good people who are voting for Trump. Those people were presumably "willfully educated".
Who knows, maybe Janice Gaddy has a college degree. Let her speak for herself.
That's all.
Larry
3
What a cruel and vicious column. We, the people, may not always see eye to eye on everything but somehow it all works out in the end. "These people" who Emma Roller sneers at have every right to cast their ballots and have their voices heard no matter how bitterly we disagree with them. I've seen far too many presidential elections and my feelings have run the gamut from elation when my candidate wins and being forced to suck it up for four years when my candidate loses. I should have my head examined reading an uninformed column written by someone who was probably a toddler when the Clintons were first in the White House.
11
It's a piece written by an opinion writer; this is what you get.
5
Roller will undoubtedly have a recommendation for disposing of deplorables. Something along the lines of Stronger Apart perhaps.
4
On the contrary this isn't simply a matter of differences in opinion. The spittle flecked closet fascists who are blindly goose stepping to Trumps messaging are the antithesis of the democratic ideal. Don't fool yourself into thinking for a naive minute that the overwhelming majority of them wouldn't hesitate to round up every Muslim, suspected undocumented alien and for that matter whatever other class they feel threatens their white supremacist entitlement and deport or encamp them. This is the banality of evil Arendt wrote about and to which we have largely allowed ourselves to become anesthetized.
7
I am quite sure that the Trump supporters feel the same way about the democratic voters as they do about Hillary Clinton. The majority of Republicans have for all of their adult life clung to the belief that the Democratic Party represents the worst of the un-American ideas, are murderers and are actively trying to destroy the country that they think they love, where individual effort brings unbounded rewards and anyone that does not succeed does so not because of a lack of opportunity but because of a lack of effort. They have come to believe that the media is so liberally biased that they cannot trust anything that does not come from a republican controlled source, hence the great divide. This is not going away until this generation of true believer Republicans die off. We are probably lookin at 2 more decades of a population that has half of its members lost in a delusional world where only what they believe to be true is right, and no facts or reason is going to change that. Whoever is to blame for this shall be reviled through all of history, if we actually have one. And I am sure that history will finally identify who these villains were, if we have a history.
33
"Whoever is to blame for this shall be reviled through all of history"
I nominate Roger Ailes.
I nominate Roger Ailes.
The anger from Republican voters reminds me of the second stage of grief. First came denial that a black man could be their President, now they are angry - and using Hillary as a scapegoat. When will they finally get through bargaining and depression, so they can reach acceptance and rebuild their party?
Just for kicks, this quote from the article made me laugh out loud. "How could he lose, if you look at Facebook?"
Just for kicks, this quote from the article made me laugh out loud. "How could he lose, if you look at Facebook?"
74
Trump's account of a President Obama's response to a heckler:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRQwWHa6ywg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRQwWHa6ywg
1
Last week I was at a local rally In West Palm Beach with Tim Kaine. It was very down homey. The crowd was decent, but not overwhelmingly large, and I ran into many of the folks I've come to know at events over the years, protesting the Iraq War, marching with the farmworkers.
During the rally there were 5 or 6 young men, outside of the fence, with signs and a bullhorn, chanting "Donald Trump; Lock Her Up". They were distracting and annoying, but an aberration.
There is a strong under current of social activism in Florida. There is no way that Florida will go to Trump. That is not who we are.
During the rally there were 5 or 6 young men, outside of the fence, with signs and a bullhorn, chanting "Donald Trump; Lock Her Up". They were distracting and annoying, but an aberration.
There is a strong under current of social activism in Florida. There is no way that Florida will go to Trump. That is not who we are.
178
I sure hope you are correct. But I have to ask, have you been up to central FL or the panhandle recently? It's like a whole other country up there. It has changed drastically since Gingrich, Bush, and now Trump have played upon their fears and exploited their once latent racism. Social activism, environmental consciousness, even simple fairness are the furthest things from their minds, I am sorry to say.
1
Beth--I certainly hope you know your state better than Donald Trump does. If not, I'd get out of there as quickly as possible. Florida has really become a dumping place for old people and those who can't make it anywhere else.
1
Oh, I hope so. I really hope so.
1
You have to ask why Latino turnout is up? Along with women, Muslims and African-Americans, LGBT, disabled and the myriad of others that Trump has offended, there is a great longing to tell him "You're Fired!" .
41
Trump is the final triumph of cognitive dissonance coupled with the Dunning-Kruger effect. He is Orwell's 1984 made flesh. Black is white, truths are lies, all is conspiracy and fraud except the almighty, omniscient Donald.
He celebrates sexism, misogyny, nativism, xenophobia, racism, fear-mongering of the worst kinds. He makes anti-Semitism respectable while somehow managing to have an Orthodox Jewish son-in-law. How can the man even look in the mirror without an upsurge of self-loathing?
The idea that this creature is the nominee of a now horribly-mutated and unrecognizable political party of which I was once a proud member is impossible for me to fathom or accept. That he might actually gain the office of President, having no preparation for it, no qualifications for it, no appreciation for it or what it means or what it represents, is utterly abhorrent to me.
I am old, and disabled, and retired. I have done what I can to oppose this dark cancer on our body politic. I only pray that enough others have done the same.
Not because Hillary Clinton is so great. She is not. She is deeply flawed. Most of our presidents have been, maybe all of them. But she knows the job, she will do the job, she will respect the office and understands what it means. The abomination she faces in the form of Donald Trump will destroy the institution and frankly, the American political tradition as it has evolved. Please do not let that happen to us. Please do not do this to ourselves.
He celebrates sexism, misogyny, nativism, xenophobia, racism, fear-mongering of the worst kinds. He makes anti-Semitism respectable while somehow managing to have an Orthodox Jewish son-in-law. How can the man even look in the mirror without an upsurge of self-loathing?
The idea that this creature is the nominee of a now horribly-mutated and unrecognizable political party of which I was once a proud member is impossible for me to fathom or accept. That he might actually gain the office of President, having no preparation for it, no qualifications for it, no appreciation for it or what it means or what it represents, is utterly abhorrent to me.
I am old, and disabled, and retired. I have done what I can to oppose this dark cancer on our body politic. I only pray that enough others have done the same.
Not because Hillary Clinton is so great. She is not. She is deeply flawed. Most of our presidents have been, maybe all of them. But she knows the job, she will do the job, she will respect the office and understands what it means. The abomination she faces in the form of Donald Trump will destroy the institution and frankly, the American political tradition as it has evolved. Please do not let that happen to us. Please do not do this to ourselves.
158
Not just flawed, as is any human being, but deeply flawed....really?
3
Trump has to win Florida. Clinton will probably win in Florida but she doesn't need it. This Republican mailed in the Florida ballet after the last debate. I voted for Mrs. Clinton and I did not hold my nose. She will be excellent president, especially when compared to the alternative.
45
If Trump Wins Florida, It’s Because of These People?...Wow! I'm not voting for Trump...but this opinion piece is unbelievably revolting & smug.....it really is very offensive...but maybe that was the intent. I'm from Florida. I know These People. These People are your brother, sister, mother, and father. These People are your neighbor, friend, & co-worker. These People are usually the first to arrive at work, the last to go home. These People are also the first to be fired when industries cut jobs. These People have served their country in times of war...they never dodged or evaded the draft...they were happy to serve. These People nurse your children when they are hurt, take care of your Mom when she is old, bury your Dad when he passes away...they do things everyday that most of us can't begin to contemplate. These People are the unappreciated , the unrecognized, the unrewarded that make this country WORK! They have been the backbone of this nation for generations. If These People were to disappear America would quickly grind to a stop. They feel left behind, their concerns dismissed, their dreams shattered. I don't think it is asking too much as this divisive election comes to a close that we show them a little respect, understanding, and good will. I don't want Trump to win. But I pray that Hillary loses Florida today. Just so that all of you who hold These People in contempt can feel the panic, despair, and grief that they have to deal with everyday of their lives.
12
These people? Minorities were the ones who suffered disproportionately under the great recession. Indeed many have yet to recoup their losses. Minorities have always been the last hired and first fired. When jobs started disappearing due to unfair trade deals, this deindustrialization first occurred in blue collar minority communities. And the response to this by Republicans and "these people" was that minorities were lazy and only wanted food stamps. These people (the Trump) supporters who make an average of 72K per year are lamenting about the perceived loss of privelege and loss of cultural dominance.
If they were truly concerned about jobs, they wouldn't be voting for another Republican and they certainly would have been more sympathetic to the plight of blue collar communities of color in the 70s, 80s, 90s and 2000s.
If they were truly concerned about jobs, they wouldn't be voting for another Republican and they certainly would have been more sympathetic to the plight of blue collar communities of color in the 70s, 80s, 90s and 2000s.
15
These are the people who scream vile racist epithets. These are the people who denigrate those who struggle to make a new life in a new country. These are the people who blindly believe lie and after lie. These are the people who don't realize which political party actually looks after their interests. If they feel despair, panic and grief, perhaps they should stop voting for people like Rick Scott.
40
1. There is nothing derogatory about the phrase "these people." Would it seem less smug if it were re-worded as "If Trump Wins Florida, it will be through the efforts of people like these"?
2. I'm not sure how having a job, whether hard or helpful, makes your view of things more credible. moral or worthy of consideration. Yes, someone may be caring in some situations and hateful in others. Should I reconsider their hateful views because they're a good nurse or a gravedigger?
3. I am a Black man born in the 60's. I am forced to wonder where all this empathy for the White struggling classes has suddenly come from. Panic, despair and grief are nothing new in America. Just new to you. I pray that Hilary wins Florida today. Just so that all of you who have held minorities in contempt can feel the panic, despair and grief we've dealt with every day of our lives *for centuries* as we stood next to you, doing your labor, fighting your wars, taking care of your mother and burying your old Pappy when he passed on.
2. I'm not sure how having a job, whether hard or helpful, makes your view of things more credible. moral or worthy of consideration. Yes, someone may be caring in some situations and hateful in others. Should I reconsider their hateful views because they're a good nurse or a gravedigger?
3. I am a Black man born in the 60's. I am forced to wonder where all this empathy for the White struggling classes has suddenly come from. Panic, despair and grief are nothing new in America. Just new to you. I pray that Hilary wins Florida today. Just so that all of you who have held minorities in contempt can feel the panic, despair and grief we've dealt with every day of our lives *for centuries* as we stood next to you, doing your labor, fighting your wars, taking care of your mother and burying your old Pappy when he passed on.
40
Its all about the party and supporting the party. There may be some great candidates in the party, and some terrible candidates in the party, but you support them all because its too complicated to consider (and accept) that not all candidates are up to the job.
4
Trump supporters are Americans, and they'll still be Americans after the election, whether their candidate wins of loses. The country's big enough for us to have different ideas about governance and life styles, and we need to be begrudgingly tolerant of others, although we won't ever see things their way or vote for their candidates. I admit that I reacted physically when I read the comments about Clinton by the woman who was with her two granddaughters ("I hate that woman. She is evil") -- that level of commentary is too strong and undoubtedly brings more trouble to the person who utters it than to the person about whom it's uttered. Let's not let this happen to us, either.
5
Am I the only one who finds it beyond ironic that Maria Chambers, who fled Cuba, supports Donald Trump because she is afraid that under a Clinton presidency America will go under dictatorship and cease to be the country it is now?
Because Trump's blatant admiration of dictators around the world and his frequent and disturbing comments that he will lock his opponents up are glaring red flags of a dictator-to-be to me.
Because Trump's blatant admiration of dictators around the world and his frequent and disturbing comments that he will lock his opponents up are glaring red flags of a dictator-to-be to me.
98
Donald Trump has morphed his campaign into one that more resembles a farewell tour than a race for President of the United States. His show is gloom and doom with nasty lyrics. For those who believe in both damning and damnation it’s one last chance to listen to the master of both before he becomes a footnote. At least one can hope.
7
So Trump can't lose on Facebook, Paul Ryan is a traitor, Clinton is Fidel Castro, and the country will be lost if she wins...?
What is this country they're losing? It isn't one I recognize.
My molecules are starting to disintegrate -- I think it's from the stress of simultaneous existence inside two contradictory universes. Please can anyone tell me the space-time coordinates for the planet where I used to l live? I need to get back home. Soon.
What is this country they're losing? It isn't one I recognize.
My molecules are starting to disintegrate -- I think it's from the stress of simultaneous existence inside two contradictory universes. Please can anyone tell me the space-time coordinates for the planet where I used to l live? I need to get back home. Soon.
414
That planet and that time never existed.
We seem to forget that we are free to vote for whomever we so wish.
Rather sad to see the "Highly Educated" Commentators looking down
their noses as people who radically disagree with them.
To say that people are Fascists/members of the KKK and followers of
Hitler because they will vote for Trump and not Clinton says more about
the Commentators than those who support Trump.
For all the "Brilliance" of Clinton/Obama/Clinton there are tens of millions of
Americans who feel wholly left behind by their Government. If they want
Trump to flip over the banquet tables, banquets they have never been
invited to, how can you blame them ?
Rather sad to see the "Highly Educated" Commentators looking down
their noses as people who radically disagree with them.
To say that people are Fascists/members of the KKK and followers of
Hitler because they will vote for Trump and not Clinton says more about
the Commentators than those who support Trump.
For all the "Brilliance" of Clinton/Obama/Clinton there are tens of millions of
Americans who feel wholly left behind by their Government. If they want
Trump to flip over the banquet tables, banquets they have never been
invited to, how can you blame them ?
4
Who says the voters in the article aren't educated.
They are at least ok on the economic ladder as Sarasota is a nice area.
And I agree with others that there are not enough details to call them deplorable, but you do get a whiff of it.
They are at least ok on the economic ladder as Sarasota is a nice area.
And I agree with others that there are not enough details to call them deplorable, but you do get a whiff of it.
3
I thought the Stones had told Trump to stop using their songs.
10
Clinton is sophrosyne.
Trump is hubris.
Trump is hubris.
5
I'm pretty sure that Libyan regime change, to name just one of HRC's "accomplishments" registers pretty high on the old Hubris Meter...
1
After Hillary Clinton captures Florida and its 29 electoral votes, perhaps some of these incredulous Trump supporters will realize that Facebook news is an echo chamber and their friends are not representative of the state as a whole. In other words, maybe, just maybe, they will realize that they are not in the majority and that most Americans do not share their distorted view of the country and its next president.
28
They will not recognize that Facebook news is an echo chamber. They will be certain that the election was rigged. That's the sorry mess it has come to.
6
I have been reading "Gulliver's Travels" by Jonathan Swift. Written a couple of hundred years ago, and by golly he harpooned the human political zoo right to the heart. It's a wonder the king of England did not have him hung as an example to other would-be satirists.
4
All of us who are convinced that we see the world clearly, and that Trump's supporters are blind, have been chattering to one another now for months.
So here's the problem. Problems.
What has this experience taught us about the country in which we live? America. There are lots of theories. The Internet and Fox News have poisoned the atmosphere. Sad and potentially suicidal white men adore The Donald and serve proudly as his key constituents. The GOP has come to rely on the NRA and evangelicals for their funds and votes ... all dem folk who hark back to pastoral nostalgic American eras that never existed.
And that's just the beginning.
What will we all do after Hillary wins? (As she will.)
There's little we can do now but ride the wave and see what happens. I've spent hours walking hills (and steep little driveways) and phoning in support of New York Democrats. Every vote for every Democratic rep is important. But of course this is a very blue state.
And I've become a partisan. I consider myself well-informed and objective (ha ha ha).
Bring it on. Politics is like sports. Probably always was (or at least since the 1760s, right here in River City).
Oh, this has been a terrible campaign season, but if there's any person strong and savvy enough to take us forward, it's Hillary Clinton.
My opinion.
So here's the problem. Problems.
What has this experience taught us about the country in which we live? America. There are lots of theories. The Internet and Fox News have poisoned the atmosphere. Sad and potentially suicidal white men adore The Donald and serve proudly as his key constituents. The GOP has come to rely on the NRA and evangelicals for their funds and votes ... all dem folk who hark back to pastoral nostalgic American eras that never existed.
And that's just the beginning.
What will we all do after Hillary wins? (As she will.)
There's little we can do now but ride the wave and see what happens. I've spent hours walking hills (and steep little driveways) and phoning in support of New York Democrats. Every vote for every Democratic rep is important. But of course this is a very blue state.
And I've become a partisan. I consider myself well-informed and objective (ha ha ha).
Bring it on. Politics is like sports. Probably always was (or at least since the 1760s, right here in River City).
Oh, this has been a terrible campaign season, but if there's any person strong and savvy enough to take us forward, it's Hillary Clinton.
My opinion.
9
Go Hill!
As Obama said, we need to break out of the screen projected by Fox.
Also, we need to address the uncertainty in people's lives with globalization.
When I think of support programs, I think Dem. Why would the frustrated turn to R's for support. They are the 'You're on your own' party
As Obama said, we need to break out of the screen projected by Fox.
Also, we need to address the uncertainty in people's lives with globalization.
When I think of support programs, I think Dem. Why would the frustrated turn to R's for support. They are the 'You're on your own' party
1
These people are case studies of cerebral distortion.
Some believe the lie of voter fraud. It's only logical to presume they'll believe his other lies, too.
Others look around and see only those that resemble them. The polls must be wrong; how could they lose with such numbers?
Still others put party first at all costs. You're either with us on every issue or you're scorched-earth collateral.
Somewhere along the line, these people decided that critical thinking took too much effort. It's easier to believe a lie that sounds goodthan to research the facts.
Some believe the lie of voter fraud. It's only logical to presume they'll believe his other lies, too.
Others look around and see only those that resemble them. The polls must be wrong; how could they lose with such numbers?
Still others put party first at all costs. You're either with us on every issue or you're scorched-earth collateral.
Somewhere along the line, these people decided that critical thinking took too much effort. It's easier to believe a lie that sounds goodthan to research the facts.
12
Florida already has a Republican governor that cannot even admit if climate change is a problem for his state, who was head of the company that paid the largest medicare fraud settlement in history and then bought his way into the governorship by spending over $75 million of his own money, a Republican do-nothing Congress that adjourns early and cuts taxes for millionaires while cutting school funding. Why shouldn't they vote for Trump?
32
We have to stop telling ourselves how amazingly tolerant and inclusive and wonderful we are while simultaneously saying "good riddance" to people whose lives have been kicked to the side of the curb.
We have it get beyond self congratulations to realize that this country doesn't work for millions it used to work for. And they want it different.
The goal is not to ignore them. It's to help them change so they can succeed, and to change ourselves so that we never again simply don't care.
We have it get beyond self congratulations to realize that this country doesn't work for millions it used to work for. And they want it different.
The goal is not to ignore them. It's to help them change so they can succeed, and to change ourselves so that we never again simply don't care.
13
But Louisa, they have two prescriptions: the one for everyone else, which calls for working harder, saving more, keeping work skills updated, and predicting the number of children one can afford to support; and the one for themselves, by which everyone and everything else is responsible for their demise.
I am sorry, but I have had enough of the Trumpies' hypocrisy, and of the GOP leadership - so-called - providing cover and legitimacy to prejudice and bigotry. It is past time to reject these people and leave them stewing in a misery of their own making.
Yes. ENOUGH.
I am sorry, but I have had enough of the Trumpies' hypocrisy, and of the GOP leadership - so-called - providing cover and legitimacy to prejudice and bigotry. It is past time to reject these people and leave them stewing in a misery of their own making.
Yes. ENOUGH.
10
Actually the country turns out to be working just fine for the average Trump supporter with their $72,000 income. It is a myth that most Trump supporters are the down trodden job losers hurt by the migration of factory work overseas. What is not working out for them is that fact the country is also working out for people like the Obamas. How dare a biracial man married to a black woman earn the support of a majority of the American people to become the president of the United States! How dare a woman become the nominee of a major political party and seek the same office!
17
Yes, anger may be justifiable; but anger is one thing, hatred is entirely another.
1
If I'm not mistaken, every supporter quoted is quoting Donald Trump. And that's a real problem.
13
And trump is reading bannon's teleprompter.
4
Now that the election is almost over and Trump looks to be the loser, what is more scary than the prospect of a Trump presidency is the prospect of an increasingly uninformed electorate. It appears that critical thinking skills have gone extinct in far too large a share of the electorate. They parrot the lies and conspiracy theories they hear as if they were golden. They have no use for the mainstream media, that is the news sources that tend to be the most reliable. That makes them impervious to any reasoned and factual argument. I know some, and it is futile to present them with any fact that doesn't fit their version of the political narrative. I am thrilled that we are finally going to have a woman president, but a look to the immediate future with foreboding. How can we survive with nearly half the electorate so ignorant?
103
What could be more exemplary of critical thinking skills than women voting for Clinton simply because she's female?
5
What could be more exemplary of lack of critical thinking skills than assuming women are voting for Clnton simply because she's female?
3
Or for voting for Donald trump just because he is a man.
3
This is terrifying. Seriously, America needs in-depth psychoanalysis.
21
@Radx28
I trust it, you suggest analysts be the liberal know-it-all order of high priests (one Black, one Hispanic, one woman, one miscellaneous, maybe even a White man, if he's gay or better yet lesbian).
“Liberalism is the most intolerant religion using political correctness for cultural genocide.” “Political correctness is a belief that you can pick up a turd from the clean side.”
I trust it, you suggest analysts be the liberal know-it-all order of high priests (one Black, one Hispanic, one woman, one miscellaneous, maybe even a White man, if he's gay or better yet lesbian).
“Liberalism is the most intolerant religion using political correctness for cultural genocide.” “Political correctness is a belief that you can pick up a turd from the clean side.”
1
I drove by the rally site about 90 minutes before Trump arrived. The look on the faces of most of those attending was anger. Anger against Hillary, to be sure, but anger about losing their "place" in our society. There was a small group of Trump protesters carrying home made signs. One young women, acting like she was deranged, was observed, on a local media video, of yelling, screaming at the protesters and finally getting about 6" off one's face. The police pushed her away twice, talked to her and she still tried to get back at the protesters again. The tape ended so I don't know what happened after that.
Even in docile, historically moderate Republican Sarasota, the contrast this year is scary. I am a Clinton volunteer who spent Saturday at an early voting site in Sarasota. Trump had one elderly lady with a table and some signs. We had a table, too many volunteers, a sample ballot handout and invitations to a victory party tomorrow night. Other volunteers outside the Sarasota County Bureau of Elections had a rough time of insults and threats. This is no way to run a campaign and there's more than the right wing media to blame.
Too many, but not all, Trump supporters here are angry. So angry that you see it on their faces and hear it in their voices. Almost 100% white, male and female, older, but some younger like the woman above, seem to hate everything and everyone not like them. Sadly, this may never heal.
Even in docile, historically moderate Republican Sarasota, the contrast this year is scary. I am a Clinton volunteer who spent Saturday at an early voting site in Sarasota. Trump had one elderly lady with a table and some signs. We had a table, too many volunteers, a sample ballot handout and invitations to a victory party tomorrow night. Other volunteers outside the Sarasota County Bureau of Elections had a rough time of insults and threats. This is no way to run a campaign and there's more than the right wing media to blame.
Too many, but not all, Trump supporters here are angry. So angry that you see it on their faces and hear it in their voices. Almost 100% white, male and female, older, but some younger like the woman above, seem to hate everything and everyone not like them. Sadly, this may never heal.
431
Hate is so destructive. Thank God I am not like them.
3
JWMatthews,
It may be too early to talk about 'Healing'. Some of us are more susceptible to empty flattery, some of us have been forgotten, some of us have felt neglected and threatened. Along comes a mangy tattered fox, lurking on the side for ever so long, talking bigly to the crows in the tree 'you are me, I love you and you are family'. He catches the unwary birds, starts a feathered quarrel among the flock, causing the weaker ones to sing and drop their vote into his open jaws.
This may not be the time to be frightened. This is the time to act. Hatred is not going to go away. We could groom Fox TV's coat for starters and make it more entertaining, more enlightening, smarter, sophisticated and challenging for it is indeed the most popular channel among the national viewers of the news.
It may be too early to talk about 'Healing'. Some of us are more susceptible to empty flattery, some of us have been forgotten, some of us have felt neglected and threatened. Along comes a mangy tattered fox, lurking on the side for ever so long, talking bigly to the crows in the tree 'you are me, I love you and you are family'. He catches the unwary birds, starts a feathered quarrel among the flock, causing the weaker ones to sing and drop their vote into his open jaws.
This may not be the time to be frightened. This is the time to act. Hatred is not going to go away. We could groom Fox TV's coat for starters and make it more entertaining, more enlightening, smarter, sophisticated and challenging for it is indeed the most popular channel among the national viewers of the news.
If it helps, I live in a moderate Republican area, and have seen zero signs supporting Trump and almost no bumper stickers. In previous elections, there were flocks of Romney signs and plenty of Bush or Romney bumper stickers. so the absence of visible Trump supporters here may bode well for Democrats or Independents in Georgia in the future. This state is about 40% minority, and there are many Northerners who have moved here for jobs or retirement. (Unfortunately, as many as 100,000 voter registration forms in Georgia, 64% for black voters, may have been rejected due to tiny mistakes like punctuation that did not match other paperwork, or there were notably fewer polling places or hours. The Lost Cause continues.)
2
"Where does this movement go after Tuesday?" Oblivion. The working-class people who voted for him are not those that buy his over-priced schlock. Trump-the-name cannot afford Trump-the-candidate. Changing the name is no solution as people wise up fast: the new Scion is just the same old Trump. Sad! So expect a first: The Donald will jump into this own memory hole.
3
The sweetest music to my ears was this quote: "Mr. Trump gave the crowd an ultimatum: The movement he started will end if he loses on Tuesday night."
Yeah, Baby!!!!!
Yeah, Baby!!!!!
44
The Cubans know and they vote Trump.
5
1
If they identify as "Cuban," why should they be voting in a US election?
4
Floridians, let's keep it simple: "Reject Fear and Choose Hope".
20
There are low information voters and there are low information voters.
And then there are these sad folks.
And then there are these sad folks.
19
If this level of confusion and anger manifests itself so dramatically when unemployment is below 5% what's on the agenda when another, inevitable economic downturn pushes that to double digits? There are deep, deep insecurities that cannot be explained as simple manifestations of people responding to immediate deprivation and poverty. This is not Weimar Germany... yet. The greatest vitriol is not coming from communities and populations currently confronting the worst social conditions but those that fear an impending loss of income and just as importantly - comparative status. These are people that feel the ground moving beneath their feet. They have lost hope and confidence in the present setup. That has made them easy fodder for shameless demagogy allied with phantom solutions. This will not go away on November 9.
16
Actually, Socrates, voter fraud is rampant. It's called GOP gerrymandering an voter suppression. It is what keeps the zombie Republican Party moribund but kicking.
122
In the same way that "wealth redistribution" that Republicans say they hate so much, has been going on unchecked for years...that is the redistribution of wealth from the middle class to the wealthiest 1%.
1
When, as is ever so likely, Trump loses and his followers become sore losers, I sincerely promise that I will be an ecstatic winner.
8
Entertaining article, Emma; but nothing new. Just the same ol' prevailing Daffy Ignorance among brain-challenged Trumpty supporters.
I especially love that woman's comment, “We gave [congressional republicans] a Republican Senate and we gave them a Republican Congress, and they have let Obama do everything that he wanted.” What a hoot the poor thing doesn't realize that, on the contrary, Senate and House Republicans have thrown wrenches in most of what the president has wanted to accomplish.
And how about the dude who said, "How could [Trump] lose, if you look at Facebook?" Ah yes, Facebook: a veritable think tank of the 2016 presidential election, if there ever was one!
I especially love that woman's comment, “We gave [congressional republicans] a Republican Senate and we gave them a Republican Congress, and they have let Obama do everything that he wanted.” What a hoot the poor thing doesn't realize that, on the contrary, Senate and House Republicans have thrown wrenches in most of what the president has wanted to accomplish.
And how about the dude who said, "How could [Trump] lose, if you look at Facebook?" Ah yes, Facebook: a veritable think tank of the 2016 presidential election, if there ever was one!
27
We are a far more enlightened and tolerant people now than we have ever been. The classy conduct of Donald Trump and his merry band have demonstrated this again and again throughout the current protracted, costly, most sober and sobering election season.
Trumps enlightened and warm-hearted followers will vote in great numbers and with great fervor. They will conclusively prove that the world has once again been made safe for "dimocracy"!
And if The Donald should lose, they, true patriots that they are, will unite behind President Hillary Clinton and demand that all GOP congresspersons apply themselves unstintingly to effecting communally beneficial bi-partisan compromises.
And global climate change will continue to be nothing but a fable until all hell bubbles over.
Trumps enlightened and warm-hearted followers will vote in great numbers and with great fervor. They will conclusively prove that the world has once again been made safe for "dimocracy"!
And if The Donald should lose, they, true patriots that they are, will unite behind President Hillary Clinton and demand that all GOP congresspersons apply themselves unstintingly to effecting communally beneficial bi-partisan compromises.
And global climate change will continue to be nothing but a fable until all hell bubbles over.
4
Someone should tell Trump supporters that even if he wins he won't be the president. Am I the only one who see what the republicans are doing? Their hope is to:
1. Defeat HRC.
2. Impeach DT after he is elected. This would be easy given his financial and sexual transgressions and the fact that both republicans and democrats in the congress (the establishment) hate him, what he stands for and what he claims to be standing for.
1. Defeat HRC.
2. Impeach DT after he is elected. This would be easy given his financial and sexual transgressions and the fact that both republicans and democrats in the congress (the establishment) hate him, what he stands for and what he claims to be standing for.
8
I wish we could split the country into two, just like India and Pakistan. What a grand experiment we could watch unfold. I wonder which ideology would flourish and which would succumb to darkness and plague.
23
As I always say to my beloved, those who can imagine voting for Trump don't read much. Read any number of articles on the "real Donald Trump" in the Times or any number of publications or "The Making of Donald Trump" by David Cay Johnston or one of Wayne Barrett's gems or read what Tony Schwartz (the writer, not ghost writer, of "The Art of the Deal") has said about Trump and a normal reaction might be "never Trump." Sadly, his fans don't read much.
30
When 392 of the 400 largest print media outlets in the country endorse Hillary Clinton, which also means that they actively reject Donald Trump, anyone who votes for Trump has proven that they don't read.
9
“If you’re a Republican, you’re part of a team,” he said. “You’ve gotta support everybody.”
Would that the above-quoted Trump voter extend that analogy to supporting each other as Americans. Those GOP figures derided here for not being pro-Trump are supposed to be leaders for the nation, not just their party. The same for their treatment of President Obama (set aside the absurdity of contending that the GOP gave President Obama everything he wanted. Ask Garland about that one). Republican representatives should work for the benefit of all citizens, not only their group. A defeat dealt to a President, for no other purpose than a political attack, is a defeat dealt to the nation.
Would that the above-quoted Trump voter extend that analogy to supporting each other as Americans. Those GOP figures derided here for not being pro-Trump are supposed to be leaders for the nation, not just their party. The same for their treatment of President Obama (set aside the absurdity of contending that the GOP gave President Obama everything he wanted. Ask Garland about that one). Republican representatives should work for the benefit of all citizens, not only their group. A defeat dealt to a President, for no other purpose than a political attack, is a defeat dealt to the nation.
17
Where is the evidence that the movement started by Bernie Sanders "continues"? Are you serious? It did not continue; in fact it was sucked into the maw of the establishment Democratic party machine and no longer exists.
3
Thesis, antithesis, synthesis or in the words of the prophet, "you can't always get what you want, but if you try sometime, you just might find, you get what you need."
Thank you Ms. Roller for this fine essay. It will help me sleep better tonight. Damon Winters photo will be a classic.
1
These classy people just must vote for the classiest presidential candidate ever. How could they not? The Trumpster made them do it!
1
The Trump supporters might do better for themselves than anything Trump has promised, if they out a little more often, experience what the world offers, and not to be so dependent on a TV trickster with a history of snake oil salesmanship to help them meet their expectations. Trump has these souls walking the plank and they do not even know it.
4
Well, that's what I see around here too: enormous displays of support in the real world for Trump that's at odds with the polls and my electronic devices. I know more people claiming to have voted for Stein and Bernie than for Hillary. Why the dissonance? And wouldn't it be great if the reporter could have shined a light?
1
"If you're a Republican, you're part of a team," he said.
Indeed, he said it all.
Indeed, he said it all.
2
Fascinating, frightening, sad. Ignited by Fox News, fueled by republican talking-point lies, inflamed by hate and bigotry. Tuesday, November 8th, we throw a country-sized bucket of water with our votes. Let the healing begin.
7
Trump supporters conveniently forget that he has defrauded everyday folk with Trump University. They will cry out that the election was "rigged" when he loses.
6
These people who "hate" Hillary Clinton and believe that she is "evil," and that a Democratic presidency will be a Castro-style dictatorship, etc., are abusing their American birthright. The freedoms we enjoy as U.S. citizens did not grow out of willful ignorance, fear, and hatred, but from reason, selflessness and a genuine concern for one's countrymen and women. They've been protected with many an American soldier's life. This freedom allows us all to be as stubbornly ignorant as we wish, and to hate as much as we wish--but what a way to pay back those gone before, who created and guarded these freedoms of ours!
Hey, Big Media--you're in this up to your eyebrows--ever since "Countdown to War" with Iraq, Benghazi, the HRC (but not Cheney or W or Colin or Condi) e-mails, etc. etc. The unending spectacle of you ginning up and sustaining turmoil so you can increase your ratings is sickening.
Hey, Big Media--you're in this up to your eyebrows--ever since "Countdown to War" with Iraq, Benghazi, the HRC (but not Cheney or W or Colin or Condi) e-mails, etc. etc. The unending spectacle of you ginning up and sustaining turmoil so you can increase your ratings is sickening.
17
"There's so much voter fraud."
"... they have let Obama do everything he wanted."
"How could he lose, if you look at Facebook?"
If these are the people that in fact elect our next president, then God help us all. The breathtaking absence of fact or even common sense in these claims typify a blind, swooning allegiance that is worrisome enough. Add to that the apparent yearning by Trump's supporters to see an authoritarian bigot in the White House, and you want to weep for this nation, win or lose.
Either these people cannot see Trump's mile-wide messianic streak, or they don't care. I don't know which is worse.
"... they have let Obama do everything he wanted."
"How could he lose, if you look at Facebook?"
If these are the people that in fact elect our next president, then God help us all. The breathtaking absence of fact or even common sense in these claims typify a blind, swooning allegiance that is worrisome enough. Add to that the apparent yearning by Trump's supporters to see an authoritarian bigot in the White House, and you want to weep for this nation, win or lose.
Either these people cannot see Trump's mile-wide messianic streak, or they don't care. I don't know which is worse.
27
Keep calling them "those people" and win them over with your persuasive charm.
2
“What have they done?” she asked. “We gave them a Republican Senate and we gave them a Republican Congress, and they have let Obama do everything that he wanted.” Has this person read a newspaper or watched a reputable news channel in the past eight years? The GOP leadership vowed when the President was elected that his would be a failed presidency. They have blocked him at every turn, even when he wanted to go forward with some of their proposals. They did not want him to get credit for anything, instead of working for the American people.
This story reads like "The Emperor's New Clothes", the children's tale. Trump's beknighted followers will find out that their Emperor is naked tomorrow. Trump is reckless, feckless and determined, but also intellectually, temperamentally and morally unfit to be President. There will be no going back to the 1950s where white men dominated and immigrants, minorities and women knew their place. The 21st century economy is knowledge based. The days of well-paying manufacturing jobs for those with only high school are over. Much easier to blame others than retrain and adapt to the new reality. How Hillary Clinton is demonized for everything is beyond me. She will have a difficult time dealing with these people and the poison that Trump has normalized. Ignorance, bigotry, religious zealotry, xenophobia, nativism, anti-Semitism and more. It is both disgusting and shameful. The election is tomorrow, but this will not go away.
This story reads like "The Emperor's New Clothes", the children's tale. Trump's beknighted followers will find out that their Emperor is naked tomorrow. Trump is reckless, feckless and determined, but also intellectually, temperamentally and morally unfit to be President. There will be no going back to the 1950s where white men dominated and immigrants, minorities and women knew their place. The 21st century economy is knowledge based. The days of well-paying manufacturing jobs for those with only high school are over. Much easier to blame others than retrain and adapt to the new reality. How Hillary Clinton is demonized for everything is beyond me. She will have a difficult time dealing with these people and the poison that Trump has normalized. Ignorance, bigotry, religious zealotry, xenophobia, nativism, anti-Semitism and more. It is both disgusting and shameful. The election is tomorrow, but this will not go away.
27
Hopefully, people like Ms. Gaddy will leave the Republican party and unintentionally begin one of two processes: the cleansing of the GOP or the complete dissolution of the party.
Hate-mongering has completely overrun the Republican party of today. They are starving for moderates who can re-center the group into a more respectable party. "Beat down everything Obama proposes" is not real politics, that's just being a sore loser. If the Democrats and Republicans don't pull it together and compromise, we're in for another four years of struggle (regardless of who becomes President).
Hate-mongering has completely overrun the Republican party of today. They are starving for moderates who can re-center the group into a more respectable party. "Beat down everything Obama proposes" is not real politics, that's just being a sore loser. If the Democrats and Republicans don't pull it together and compromise, we're in for another four years of struggle (regardless of who becomes President).
8
Are the Rolling Stones letting him use their music? Serious question, as he never pays what he owes.
10
No, they're not. The Stones have told the Trump campaign to stop using their music on numerous occasions.
11
Add to the lawsuit tally, now over one a week for every week of Trumplethinskin's life.
2
You are what you vote.
5
These are the poor; gullible people Trump spent his whole life avoiding.
18
Alhough I am (vehemently) voting against Trump .. this article - which is also unabashedly anti-Trump - provided little to nothing of substance except that its author also dislikes him. This type of fact and content-lacking reporting in the nytimes - throughout the entire 2015/2016 campaign - has been nauseating. Try sticking to some actual reporting instead of editorializing everything.
5
This is an opinion piece in the opinion section. I could be wrong but I thought the point of an opinion piece was to serve as a means to communicate the author's opinion.
But you are correct in that we needed more fact-based analysis of policy and less horse-race coverage during this election. And we will continue to need such analysis after the election is over no matter who wins (hopefully not Trump).
But you are correct in that we needed more fact-based analysis of policy and less horse-race coverage during this election. And we will continue to need such analysis after the election is over no matter who wins (hopefully not Trump).
11
"Try sticking to some actual reporting instead of editorializing everything."
Ummm...she is an editorial writer.
Ummm...she is an editorial writer.
4
I heard one of Trump's biographers say that Trump had next to no interest in his children with Ivanna until they were young adults (contrary to the family's recounting.) His young son with Melania is named "Baron", of all things! Donald Trump believes that he will be Emperor. What he doesn't know, though it's plain to see, is that he has no clothes on.
7
A con is always a con- Don is no different. Skilled with god gifted qualities to manipulate people, Con Don is at its best. The narcissist bully never thought that he could win the primary. But thanks to some of the morally bankrupt citizens - he became a hero. They closed there eyes despite the fact that con Don is a pathological liar, bully and groper king. While we work very hard to bring bread on the table, con Don maintains a lavish Manhattan lifestyle without paying a penny tax. Con Don is a failed businessman and six bankruptcies on record. But the morally bankrupt supporters are blind not realizing that he is the embodiment of everything wrong in our great nation today. He is the wrong boogeyman promoting rhetoric and populist talk. The most dangerous creature in the world does not deserve to serve any public office in the world.
7
I am a PhD graduate that has been applying to jobs in my field for about a year without much success. Stores in my area are starting to hire seasonal employees for the Christmas season and I would like to apply for these to make some extra cash while I keep looking for work in my field.
I am voting for Trump tomorrow for sure because Hillary will send more people to PhD programs and my job hunting will be more difficult.
I am voting for Trump tomorrow for sure because Hillary will send more people to PhD programs and my job hunting will be more difficult.
3
But she will also create jobs that will require PhDs. So don't give up!
9
What are you talkng about? What field of study?
5
Perhaps you should get into renewable energy. If HRC gets elected, there will be many jobs in that sector.
I am banking on their rude awakening being just hours away. But once the numbers are in and they see they've lost, they will still beg for the Trump potion, uh, poison. Once somebody is brainwashed it's almost impossible to undo the damage. How they will manage going forward is alarming, for themselves and for the rest of us.
4
Hillary will welcome them with open arms to work for this great country and make it even greater.
5
"Outside the arena, Cathy Borden, a retired Navy recruiter, said everyone she talks to is voting for Mr. Trump."
The Republican answer to Pauline Kael?
The Republican answer to Pauline Kael?
4
For every Trump supporter who says "Everyone I talk to is voting for Trump," needs to realize that plenty of Hillary supporters don't know any Trump voters.
By the way, who gets to take time off in the middle of a work day to go to a political rally, of any sort?
By the way, who gets to take time off in the middle of a work day to go to a political rally, of any sort?
108
"...Who gets to take time off in the middle of a work day to attend political rallies?"
Unfortunately, those who are unemployed, which is part of the problem that's attracting these folks.
Also, since this is Florida, old people pining for a 1950's utopia that never really existed in the first place unless you were white i.e. where dark skinned people knew their place and kept it and all the men had good paying jobs in buggy whip factories while women stayed at home and raised the children to love Jesus and hate Jews, Communists and liberals, and Evolution.
Unfortunately, those who are unemployed, which is part of the problem that's attracting these folks.
Also, since this is Florida, old people pining for a 1950's utopia that never really existed in the first place unless you were white i.e. where dark skinned people knew their place and kept it and all the men had good paying jobs in buggy whip factories while women stayed at home and raised the children to love Jesus and hate Jews, Communists and liberals, and Evolution.
6
"By the way, who gets to take time off in the middle of a work day to go to a political rally, of any sort?"
Black rioters and 'activists' are on the streets all year around all across the country.
Black rioters and 'activists' are on the streets all year around all across the country.
1
It's interesting that so many posters voice disgust at the people who are voting for Trump because they cant stand the Republican party leadership.
You'd think that would be a redeeming quality.
You'd think that would be a redeeming quality.
2
It is if you consider a domestic abuser's killing himself after first murdering his spouse to represent a step up from the same sort of person who kills his wife and then flees.
37
If the remedy is putting Donald Trump in the White House, then no, it's not a redeeming quality.
12
The two party system has defied gravity for a long time no more.
1
" Perhaps America will one day go fascist democratically, by popular vote."
- William L. Shirer
Perhaps tomorrow will be the day.
- William L. Shirer
Perhaps tomorrow will be the day.
61
I am not an expert on the history of Germany, but is that not how it happened in the original example?
1
Shirer's successor will have a lot to write about.
1
Election Eve. Tomorrow the Big Day is finally here. The votes will be cast and counted. One offers hellfire; one offers hope. One will lose, and one will win. The supporters of one will be validated; supporters of the other will be discounted and marginalized.
It's hard to believe that with two such extremely different candidates, this close to the election, that I cannot go to sleep feeling secure about the outcome. (Remember "DEWEY WINS!"?)
May we all adjust peacefully to the outcome. And begin to heal.
It's hard to believe that with two such extremely different candidates, this close to the election, that I cannot go to sleep feeling secure about the outcome. (Remember "DEWEY WINS!"?)
May we all adjust peacefully to the outcome. And begin to heal.
44
A few assorted lines from an old American hymn part of which was sung at the funeral of Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas. Cyber-Hymnal gives the full song: Shall We Gather at the River, by Robert Lowry, 1864. The introduction, at Cyber-Hymnal, is appropriate to our time.
"Shall we gather at the river,
where bright angel feet have trod...
"Yes, we'll gather at the river,
The beautiful, the beautiful river;
Gather with the saints at the river
That flows by the throne of God.
"Ere we reach the shining river,
Lay we every burden down;
Grace our spirits will deliver,
And provide a robe and crown.
"Soon we'll reach the silver river,
Soon our pilgrimage will cease;
Soon our happy hearts will quiver,
With the melody of peace."
"Shall we gather at the river,
where bright angel feet have trod...
"Yes, we'll gather at the river,
The beautiful, the beautiful river;
Gather with the saints at the river
That flows by the throne of God.
"Ere we reach the shining river,
Lay we every burden down;
Grace our spirits will deliver,
And provide a robe and crown.
"Soon we'll reach the silver river,
Soon our pilgrimage will cease;
Soon our happy hearts will quiver,
With the melody of peace."
1
Hillary will win Florida. Of that I am sure. But for these people, enveloped in delusion and immune to facts, is there any help for them? Any at all? I don't think so.
235
I know, right?!? What planet have these people been living on? Particularly the woman who said congress had let the President "do everything he wanted." SERIOUSLY?!?! I'm sorry, but these people are not "hurt" b/c they've been "left behind." They're downright hateful, and its time to call a spade a spade
11
Of course there is.
Let's pass a Value Added Tax Credit so that American manufacturers abroad have to pay US income tax. Job outsourcing will come to a screeching halt.
As money starts coming into the US that can be used for infrastructure repair and for retraining displaced workers they will begin to come around.
Let's pass a Value Added Tax Credit so that American manufacturers abroad have to pay US income tax. Job outsourcing will come to a screeching halt.
As money starts coming into the US that can be used for infrastructure repair and for retraining displaced workers they will begin to come around.
NRA will sell them another gun and big Pharma will sell them more nerve pills. But their real hope is to turn off FOX News and go outside for a walk.
9
???? There's no information here, just a mob that is against anything Obama and Clinton. I guess that's the point. These people are a perfect representation of Donald Trump and hie fact free campaign.
350
His fair and square campaign, something democrats can't seem to accomplish.
1
The Trump supporters interviewed spout the Republican party's lies and hate messages that have been their mantra for years, especially in their character assassination of Hillary Clinton. Trump rings his hate-message bell, and the Trump loyalists salivate (see Pavlov's Dogs). I detect absolutely no individual ideas from the Trump worshipers. It's as though they have shut off the reason and common sense parts of their brains, but their mouths keep moving, not unlike Trump's and his legion of machine-gun-speaking surrogates. I've seen young journalists and reporters interview Trump supporters. They followed a reasoned and logical string of questions and follow-up questions after the Trump supporters finished with the Trump and Republican party dogma. At the end of the interview, the Trump supporters were frozen, unable to supply ANY fact-based statement. This is how limited those voters are. Trump should sell 'Trump Mobile Teleprompters' for his followers so they don't further embarrass themselves.
127
My elderly parents keep Fox on their television 24 hours a day. When my mother asked me how I could possibly vote for anyone who has lied as much as Hillary, I asked her to tell me just one of those lies. She couldn't.
39
Sounds like all that was missing were the white sheets and hoods and the burning crosses. As for the leftover signs and empty popcorn tubs littering the floor, I'm guessing that the Klan at least has the decency to clean up after itself.
215
They probably pay immigrants (very little) to do that.
2
'Cristina Dawson said she felt “apprehensive” about the election’s results.
“There’s so much voter fraud,” she said, shaking her head.'
------
Actually, Christina, there's almost zero voter fraud.
https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/debunking-voter-fraud-myth
The Washington Post found 31 credible instances of impersonation fraud from 2000 to 2014, out of more than 1 billion ballots cast.... a 'fraud' rate impressively close to zero.
The real voter fraud is when sore losers like Donald Trump and the alt-right feed their disinformed voters the myth of 'voter fraud' for breakfast, lunch and dinner because their candidate is getting 'schlonged' at the ballot box and Trump Nation Deplorable voters the proceed to believe the voter fraud myth fed to them by their own candidate.
Then there's the voter fraud of Donald Trump - Celebrity Apprentice - posing as a Presidential candidate....a very impressive fraud.
But then again, Donald Trump has spent a lifetime defrauding the public, vendors, employees, creditors, stockholders, the United States Treasury and his first two wives.
Christina Dawson's been defrauded by Donald Trump of her vote, and now she's crying 'fraud'.
Enjoy your just deserts.
“There’s so much voter fraud,” she said, shaking her head.'
------
Actually, Christina, there's almost zero voter fraud.
https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/debunking-voter-fraud-myth
The Washington Post found 31 credible instances of impersonation fraud from 2000 to 2014, out of more than 1 billion ballots cast.... a 'fraud' rate impressively close to zero.
The real voter fraud is when sore losers like Donald Trump and the alt-right feed their disinformed voters the myth of 'voter fraud' for breakfast, lunch and dinner because their candidate is getting 'schlonged' at the ballot box and Trump Nation Deplorable voters the proceed to believe the voter fraud myth fed to them by their own candidate.
Then there's the voter fraud of Donald Trump - Celebrity Apprentice - posing as a Presidential candidate....a very impressive fraud.
But then again, Donald Trump has spent a lifetime defrauding the public, vendors, employees, creditors, stockholders, the United States Treasury and his first two wives.
Christina Dawson's been defrauded by Donald Trump of her vote, and now she's crying 'fraud'.
Enjoy your just deserts.
666
I NEVER met a Republican yet who let the facts get in the way of opinion, innuendo or conspiracy accusations.
8
To Soc ....... it to 'em.
A large part of the electorate is made up of the uninformed voter, the misinformed voter, the low-information voter, and the single-issue voter.
This good-sized group lacks civic education and personal responsibility.
The solution for this situation is not readily available and the problem itself may never be solved until an effort is made to introduce civic education into the high school curriculum.
A national effort toward this goal should begin under the upcoming administration by way of a dedicated Cabinet position.
A large part of the electorate is made up of the uninformed voter, the misinformed voter, the low-information voter, and the single-issue voter.
This good-sized group lacks civic education and personal responsibility.
The solution for this situation is not readily available and the problem itself may never be solved until an effort is made to introduce civic education into the high school curriculum.
A national effort toward this goal should begin under the upcoming administration by way of a dedicated Cabinet position.
10
I think I caught a mistake:
"Donald Trump has spent a lifetime defrauding the public, vendors, employees, creditors, stockholders, the United States Treasury and HIS FIRST TWO WIVES."
There is enough evidence Trump has defrauded Melania as well and therefore the sentence should be corrected:
"Donald Trump has spent a lifetime defrauding the public, vendors, employees, creditors, stockholders, the United States Treasury and ALL THREE OF HIS WIVES."
"Donald Trump has spent a lifetime defrauding the public, vendors, employees, creditors, stockholders, the United States Treasury and HIS FIRST TWO WIVES."
There is enough evidence Trump has defrauded Melania as well and therefore the sentence should be corrected:
"Donald Trump has spent a lifetime defrauding the public, vendors, employees, creditors, stockholders, the United States Treasury and ALL THREE OF HIS WIVES."
7
Another example of the twisted thinking that seems to belong to some segment of the population who's mentality we can only guess at:
"Ms. Kraft called Paul Ryan a “traitor,” and said she might leave the Republican Party after this election. Her husband said Mr. Romney didn’t support Mr. Trump’s presidential bid because he was “jealous” of his success.
“If you’re a Republican, you’re part of a team,” he said. “You’ve gotta support everybody.”
So this Mr. Kraft knows what people motivations are, hr is a superb judge of human nature, aren't we fortunate to have such people around to tell us how things really are?
If you are an Aryan you have to support the support the National Socialist Party. There is no right or wrong, the party is right, jawohl!
These are people thta believe they know how the country should be run, strange how we have not heard of them before, surely they are in high places with their superior knowledge about all this.
No doubt they have done scholarly studies to come to these conclusions. Oh, to these people, scholars are liberals who waste peoples time by teaching worthless subjects to rich kids. No these are the intellectuals of the GOP world.
"Ms. Kraft called Paul Ryan a “traitor,” and said she might leave the Republican Party after this election. Her husband said Mr. Romney didn’t support Mr. Trump’s presidential bid because he was “jealous” of his success.
“If you’re a Republican, you’re part of a team,” he said. “You’ve gotta support everybody.”
So this Mr. Kraft knows what people motivations are, hr is a superb judge of human nature, aren't we fortunate to have such people around to tell us how things really are?
If you are an Aryan you have to support the support the National Socialist Party. There is no right or wrong, the party is right, jawohl!
These are people thta believe they know how the country should be run, strange how we have not heard of them before, surely they are in high places with their superior knowledge about all this.
No doubt they have done scholarly studies to come to these conclusions. Oh, to these people, scholars are liberals who waste peoples time by teaching worthless subjects to rich kids. No these are the intellectuals of the GOP world.
137
Well, in fairness, scholars could occasionally be accused of teaching marginally useful subjects to rich kids. Perhaps the more frightening thing is that the Obama presidency and this election, along with the internet giving everyone a voice, has shown us how common and durable some of the lesser qualities of our character are among us.
1
We can read and vote, just watch us.
1
@David, "If you are an Aryan you have to support the support the National Socialist Party. There is no right or wrong, the party is right, jawohl!"
If you're Black you have to support a Black for president (90% of Blacks voted for Obama).
If you're a woman you have to support a woman for president (M. Albright).
Unlike your conjecture, David, these things are happening here and now.
If you're Black you have to support a Black for president (90% of Blacks voted for Obama).
If you're a woman you have to support a woman for president (M. Albright).
Unlike your conjecture, David, these things are happening here and now.
1
I keep wishing Ms. Roller could offer some conclusions to her reporting. This IS opinion, after all and not pure journalism.
(I note once again, that Ms. Roller seems to attract very few comments. Could this be because she doesn't really say anything?)
So, perhaps, this excerpt will have to serve as her conclusion:
===
At a rally on Sunday, Mr. Trump gave the crowd an ultimatum: The movement he started will end if he loses on Tuesday night. It was a poetic antithesis to Senator Bernie Sanders’s rallying cry after he lost the Democratic primary, that “the movement continues.” Mr. Sanders’s parting message was, “Without you, I am nothing.” Mr. Trump’s message closing argument so far has been, “Without me, you are nothing.”
(I note once again, that Ms. Roller seems to attract very few comments. Could this be because she doesn't really say anything?)
So, perhaps, this excerpt will have to serve as her conclusion:
===
At a rally on Sunday, Mr. Trump gave the crowd an ultimatum: The movement he started will end if he loses on Tuesday night. It was a poetic antithesis to Senator Bernie Sanders’s rallying cry after he lost the Democratic primary, that “the movement continues.” Mr. Sanders’s parting message was, “Without you, I am nothing.” Mr. Trump’s message closing argument so far has been, “Without me, you are nothing.”
139
On good writing: show, don't tell, as Ms. Roller has done so admirably here.
7
You should read travels with Charlie by Steinbeck - then you might understand better this style of story telling that seeks to reveal people and ideas we might otherwise not encounter.
6
If only it really was the end. I fear it is just the beginning.
2
And that is it in a nut shell. T rump is the one. He is the only.
In Minnesota yesterday he was urging his crowd to be very very afraid of the......fill in the blank with your favorite refugee, immigrant, minority person, whatever.
Meanwhile, Clinton with her husband and daughter, and the First Lady with her husband, President Obama, were urging US to unite and gather our better angels towards making the Nation better for everyone than it is now.
The mass media have so muddied her message and her image that people on the right think she is a she-devil, spawned by Satan himself, while those on the left think the first woman President does not, I repeat NOT, represent change.
Curiouser and curiouser......