ATK was definitely Kimball's show and had Kimball's stamp on its creative side. I wouldn't wonder that his new show and magazine have many similarities to his old one -- since he created that style. The quote from Bon Appetit;s Rapoport is probably the most telling: all of Anthony Bourdain's shows bore significant similarities to each other, so why wouldn't Kimball's? That's just how the culinary cookie crumbles. I still watch ATK, and now I also watch and subscribe to Milk Street. That's just how culinary fans are -- the more the merrier. But after reading all this, it just seems like bitter sour grapes from ATK; they should bear up and get over it. This sort of bad publicity helps them not at all.
2
I love ATK and always have. I knew that Chris was gone but I have to say I really thought that they were going a very nice job without him. Further, I am a former small business owner that would have been livid had someone took advantage of their place in the organization in order to move on with their own venture. How icky that feels.
However this turns out, the big winners are the viewers because now we have 2 shows. I will say that I do believe that Kimball is pretty much duplicating the ATK "way". Kind of makes it obvious about what his intention was. I'll keep watching both but my loyalty is with ATK.
3
Like so many other things... credit was not given where credit was due; ATK was Christopher Kimball's show. Kimball's personality drew in the viewers and helped those of us who could dabble in the kitchen think we could make a decent meal. I was not aware of the legal issues brewing until googling why Kimball was no longer a part of ATK. Once again, Kimball appears to be taking the high road wanting to move on and focus on the season, family, and friends. ATK figure out how to clean up your mess and make amends or you will lose those of us who are tired of America's drama!
3
Well, if they didn't fire him in the first place, and it was his show and idea, these things could not have happened.
5
I think ATK owes him one after pushing him out. They try to make it sound like they weren't doing that but it's obvious they were. Plus I doubt he would have left unless he had good reason to. I know there are two sides to the story but I have a feeling if I knew both I'd still side with Chris. ATK knows it's a shadow of its former self without him and I think the lawsuit is just sour grapes. Very sad.
5
Can the lawyers cook?
Seems most of the commenters didn't read the lawsuit. I know it's just one side of the story, but the allegations go beyond Kimball just starting a competitive company. He's accused of doing it on America's Test Kitchen time, and helping himself it ATK's proprietary information.
8
Exactly, everyone should go read the details of the suit at https://whywearesuingchristopherkimball.com before they judge because Kimball stole information, solicited employees, and used his connection to ATK to boost his own business. There's evidence against him and ATK has every reason to sue. Kimball's a sneaky guy, and people need to realize he's messed up.
8
That would involve people using their *brains,* rather than just typing the first thoughts that come into their double-digit IQ brains.
This is very similar to what happened when Steve Jobs was booted out of Apple and formed NeXT with a bunch of Apple's ex-employees. How this will come out, and how similar it is exactly, I'm not sure, but Apple sued Jobs and I'm sure that will be cited as precedent in the present case.
This is very similar to what happened when Steve Jobs was booted out of Apple and formed NeXT with a bunch of Apple's ex-employees. How this will come out, and how similar it is exactly, I'm not sure, but Apple sued Jobs and I'm sure that will be cited as precedent in the present case.
I think his new publication isn't a copy of Cook's Illustrated etc., it is way better and much more interesting to me. Maybe the old folks should sharpen their work instead of suing the competition.
5
He always seemed to be an overbearing ogre to me. He constantly interrupted the nice guy doing the tasting tests and in general acted like a king.
While they brought some science to the sport, it was all about fat, the flesh of dead animals and sugar. No mention what-so-ever about calories or moderation.
While they brought some science to the sport, it was all about fat, the flesh of dead animals and sugar. No mention what-so-ever about calories or moderation.
13
Do you need yet another "mother" nagging you not to overeat? If you need to be continually reminded about caloric intake and moderation into adulthood, you have bigger problems than calories and moderation. This show isn't even remotely aimed at kids- whom it appears you think ATK caters to, based on your criticism that they aren't preaching Common Sense 101.
7
Lots of love for CK in these comments. It's ironic that a guy so committed to keeping rights to his formula, wants to highjack the name of another (nearby) food business. Milk Street Cafe's been in business for years. It's widely referred to as "Milk Street." CK should find another name for his venture.
10
Besides bruised egos there's a lot of money sloshing around.
I wonder which orginzation winds up with the cooking babes and the gadget girl.
I wonder which orginzation winds up with the cooking babes and the gadget girl.
2
Jack Bishop? The affable, chummy Jack Bishop who does the tasting segment? Such treachery! Next you'll tell me that Adam Reid and a panel of experts chose the best knife, overall, for plunging into Chris Kimball's back.
9
I received my complementary first copy of the Milk Street magazine last week and it is very good. Mr. Kimball is obviously his own biggest fan and that attitude can get in the way sometimes, but I can't imagine ATK or Cook's Country surviving without him any more than Cooking with Julia Child could have survived without Julia Child.
5
Years ago I went online to buy a specific ATK product and wasted 15-20 minutes of my life trying to order just the one thing that I wanted, not a subscription to something else or DVDs or tapes or any of the other special products on offer; tangled in the tentacles of a marketing beast. I ended up buying none of them. When I want to buy one of their books, I buy a used copy from Alibris, then marvel at how many of the recipes are retreads and how none of the neighborhood used bookstores have the slightest interest in buying it from me.
3
What petty rot, ATK grow up. And without him what will you do?
9
Until reading this article, I only surmised--as a long-time reader of CI--that two very different philosophies underlay the rupture between Kimball and ATK.
The post-Kimball magazine and web site (not to speak of their endless emails that are little more than unwelcome marketing ads disguised as recipes) are so utterly mercantile. It's true that even as a subscriber you can't get the recipes from the data base until you get past a pay wall. I am not a business person and don't know if perhaps these measures are necessary in today's nasty world. I only know that the old style of the magazine was much more delightful. Now I get increasingly aggravated and suspicious with every email and issue. While still not accepting "advertising," the operation sure pushes a lot of products!
I actually didn't know about Milk Street. So thanks, I'll definitely be looking that up.
The post-Kimball magazine and web site (not to speak of their endless emails that are little more than unwelcome marketing ads disguised as recipes) are so utterly mercantile. It's true that even as a subscriber you can't get the recipes from the data base until you get past a pay wall. I am not a business person and don't know if perhaps these measures are necessary in today's nasty world. I only know that the old style of the magazine was much more delightful. Now I get increasingly aggravated and suspicious with every email and issue. While still not accepting "advertising," the operation sure pushes a lot of products!
I actually didn't know about Milk Street. So thanks, I'll definitely be looking that up.
13
I have been watching and buying the cookbooks from ATK for a very long time. However, in the last 5 or 8 years I have been not too impressed.
Why?
Because I started to feel as if Mr. Kimball was acting something like a huckster. When I would buy a new cookbook, it was 50% to 75% filled with items in the old cookbooks. As the show went on and one purchased books covering a few years, one could not get a supplement for the new years. You had to buy the same material 3 and 4 times to get the new recipes.
Once this pattern was made clear, I stopped buying products from ATK.
This is not to mention all the wasted paper his huckstering produces.
If ATK wants to get me back then clean up the mess and treat me like a loyal customer, not a credit card.
As for Mr. Kimball, I will not follow him going forward.
Why?
Because I started to feel as if Mr. Kimball was acting something like a huckster. When I would buy a new cookbook, it was 50% to 75% filled with items in the old cookbooks. As the show went on and one purchased books covering a few years, one could not get a supplement for the new years. You had to buy the same material 3 and 4 times to get the new recipes.
Once this pattern was made clear, I stopped buying products from ATK.
This is not to mention all the wasted paper his huckstering produces.
If ATK wants to get me back then clean up the mess and treat me like a loyal customer, not a credit card.
As for Mr. Kimball, I will not follow him going forward.
6
Of course the new cookbooks had most of the previous ones. Why couldn't you have figures that out. They do say on the cover what seasons of the show are covered.
2
There is a great new talent out there! I did not think ATK was that great as it was more for a beginner and the host's personality left me bored. His interactions with the cooks had a hint of condescension I think I bought one publication over all these years on impulse at the checkout counter. The best part was the format with baby steps photos, etc. The Test Kitchen folks should get busy with their creativity and build a more interesting show. There is a new world of adventuresome cooks with more imagination that what was presented.
5
I don't care if it is Cook's I or Milk Street. I weigh the cost of the issue, and think - how many new and creative recipes will I get out of it? I quit buying Cook's I years ago, nothing new. Milk Street is heavy on the narrative - great, but few recipes. I will continue to buy for awhile to see how it progresses. But for my money - nothing beats the NYTiimes. All hail to the chefs of the NYTimes.
16
Perhaps it's awful to connect his personal life to all of this, but isn't interesting that when someone in charge marries an underling in any organization, all sorts of bizarre and damaging things often happen in the workplace (reorgs, firings, clique forming, endings of long standing friendships, etc.)?
There's an old saying - "don't get your honey where you get your money". Or, at the very least, one party has to quit their job after a workplace romance turns to marriage.
There's an old saying - "don't get your honey where you get your money". Or, at the very least, one party has to quit their job after a workplace romance turns to marriage.
5
Ironically, just received my 'expiration notice-please respond immediately ' mailing from CI yesterday. Look forward to returning the inner envelope/notice, but there won't be payment enclosed! Wonder when the CI folks will have a head's up realization about their missteps?
3
Bow ties always bring out the worst in lawyers.
1
Stopped watching/listening to ATK a long time ago. Mr. Kimball has a snarkiness to his tone that overrides virtually all else. In the "interviews" I heard him conduct, he always seemed to have an agenda, and sometimes the interviewee sniped right back. The food seemed pretty bland most of the time, and nothing ethnic when we've all been eating ethnic for many years. Not surprised there's been a parting of the ways. There are a ton of other options for us out there.
4
I am not a huge fan of Chris Kimball. He seems a bit pompous, but his face, his name, his fingerprints are all over ATK and CI. The brand is him. How a management team thought they could continue the brand without him is amazing. Much like Trump the person and Trump the brand are intertwined.
6
I have been listening to CK's Milk Street podcast. It's great. However, I had no idea that he had left ATK. I use the websites and cookbooks (do not watch the show), so yes, I didn't realize Milk Street was a separate endeavor.
Will he also copy the ATK practice of sending me endless solicitations? It took me years to disentangle from ATK after ordering the magazine for one year. Shame, as I really like their approach and I learned a lot but the unceasing promotion of videos and books was unacceptable.
4
Glad you can become filthy rich in PBS.
Now what were the Republicans saying about public television? I'm not one but just maybe it is commercial enough to stand on its own without tax support. I fail to see how this program as entertaining as it is is much better or worse than the other channels that aren't "charitable."
Now what were the Republicans saying about public television? I'm not one but just maybe it is commercial enough to stand on its own without tax support. I fail to see how this program as entertaining as it is is much better or worse than the other channels that aren't "charitable."
1
He never got paid by PBS. If fact, PBS has nothing to do with their programs. It's distributed to individual public TV stations (not all of them PBS stations) through another company.
2
Fine so a commercial company is using PBS as a vehicle and getting excellent ROI and paying $30mm to this guy.
My point that this can stand on its own commercial two feet remains. I make no claim on its quality because its programming is just cooking no better or worse than say a cookoff with Bobby Flay on cable.
My point that this can stand on its own commercial two feet remains. I make no claim on its quality because its programming is just cooking no better or worse than say a cookoff with Bobby Flay on cable.
2
Gee Bill, you make getting rich sound like a bad thing.
I used to subscribe to the ATK sites but let the subscription lapse. I received a sample copy of Milk Street Magazine. I wonder where Kimball got his mailing list.
3
I love ATK and am a subscriber. All the hosts have done a great job over many years. I just bought the new magazine and will give it a try. (I hope we get some good Indian dishes; would love to see aloo gobi!) I hope there is an amicable solution. Food is a big world, guys. Please, please try.
1
Milk Street is simply CK's realization that he can "milk" more money out of dull white food-sters by hopping on the we-are-so-edgy-eating-colored-foods train. Hipsters are not the only ones who think they are cool because they "discovered" something that's been around forever. And Milk Street just sucks the life out of vibrant ethnic cuisine and makes it as dull as CK's voice and as lacking in authenticity as his fake folksy demeanor. Just because it's not all-white doesn't mean it's all right.
5
Sounds like the corporate guys wanted his ideas and creative abilities and then wanted him to willingly participate and be a good sport in his own erasure. What could go wrong with that.
Maybe it can be Orwell's Test Kitchen.
Maybe it can be Orwell's Test Kitchen.
6
I enjoy Chris, ATK, and Cook's Illustrated quite a bit. I hope they work this out before it gets more distasteful.
That complaint doesn't speak well of Chris's actions in the final few months with ATK. (Granted it's plaintiff's representation of the facts as they see, but it's pretty detailed and specific.) It sounds like there are hurt feelings and egos to overcome. It'd be a shame if they allowed their relationship to end this way given that they achieved so much wonderful things together.
That complaint doesn't speak well of Chris's actions in the final few months with ATK. (Granted it's plaintiff's representation of the facts as they see, but it's pretty detailed and specific.) It sounds like there are hurt feelings and egos to overcome. It'd be a shame if they allowed their relationship to end this way given that they achieved so much wonderful things together.
The final quote in this story made me think of that infamous TV interview response Martha Stewart gave, when she was asked about far graver legal problems of her own: "I just want to focus on my salad."
http://nymag.com/news/features/scandals/martha-stewart-2012-4/
http://nymag.com/news/features/scandals/martha-stewart-2012-4/
2
While CI has pleasing layout and nice photos, the recipes aren't so great . . . somewhat boring. And frequently give poor results. I don't have a TV so haven't seen ATK in years. But that too was slightly better than Martha Stewart. I wish Kimball bonne chance. But it really looks like a fun time for the lawyers. Don't let your bow tie get in the way dude.
I cancelled my subscription this year before knowing anything of the split. CI had just gotten tired. Now I understand that the creative genius behind it and ATK had departed. Sadly, the end of an era.
2
His third wife? I don't want to read too much into that, but .....
1
To add more information to Kim Severson's NYTimes article, I would add that the parent company is currently Boston Common Press dba America's Test Kitchen.
The principals are as follows; David Nussbaum, Eliot Wadsworth II, Sharyn Shabot, George P. Denny III, and Mary Mullaney.
Perhaps commenter's sentiments might be better directed to them.
The principals are as follows; David Nussbaum, Eliot Wadsworth II, Sharyn Shabot, George P. Denny III, and Mary Mullaney.
Perhaps commenter's sentiments might be better directed to them.
Maybe Kimball's ouster helps to explain why America's Test Kitchen has been so unbelievably grubby (and greedy) over the past few years. You can't look up a recipe without paying 19.99 and once they have your email the requests for purchase never seem to stop. The truth of the matter is that Mr. Kimball was always the heart and soul of that project, and I have no problem following him to Milk Street.
3
I thought Mr. Kimball was that dumb guy on Green Acres.
I stopped watching and reading ATK an CI several years ago, because of the incessant marketing for more of my money. There is not much there there in the last five years. Kimball was part of the problem then, so I see no reason to give him any attention now.
1
I've listened to the America's test kitchen show on NPR, and Mr. Kimball and his co-host are so joyless and prim about cooking and food that I wonder why they're in the business. Both of them seem to approach cooking in the matter of fact way way a mechanic assembles an engine. From his demeanor on the radio show, I can't even tell if he enjoys eating. Because a regular part of their commentary is recommending that steps be skipped in recipes, and various ingredient additions and deletions, the results sometime scarcely resemble the original recipe result.
3
Great article. Explains why this year's "Holiday Baking" publication from Cook's Illustrated contains 95% repeat recipes. What a disappointment.
I learned a lot of helpful cooking techniques and insights from Cook's Illustrated when it was under Kimball's direction. Always looked forward to his quirky introduction to each issue. Sure it was evidence of a massive ego, but maybe that's what's needed to give character to a huge enterprise.
The magazine's descent into blandness and even poor page sequencing (too many small-print "hints" pages in succession) was striking and quite sudden.
Tearing out all those inserts that advertise subscriptions and books remains a chore. I think I'll let my subscription lapse, rely on my 7-year collection of past CI and Cook's Country magazines for a while, and check out Milk Street.
I learned a lot of helpful cooking techniques and insights from Cook's Illustrated when it was under Kimball's direction. Always looked forward to his quirky introduction to each issue. Sure it was evidence of a massive ego, but maybe that's what's needed to give character to a huge enterprise.
The magazine's descent into blandness and even poor page sequencing (too many small-print "hints" pages in succession) was striking and quite sudden.
Tearing out all those inserts that advertise subscriptions and books remains a chore. I think I'll let my subscription lapse, rely on my 7-year collection of past CI and Cook's Country magazines for a while, and check out Milk Street.
4
As someone who cannot stand Julia and Bridget (ok Bridget's technical expertise is impressive) because butter is the solutions to absolutely everything, let me say ATK needs a big overhaul. Vegetables and ethnic cooking have become the norm for many and presenters like Becky are minimally featured. I stopped watching unless the new faces were presenting. And enough with the barbecue.
All of this could have been done internally with some understanding that CK could focus on classical technique while others could increase presentation of new directions. I found the new faces much more pertinent and more deserving to take the show forward but Kimball was the business creative force.
All of this could have been done internally with some understanding that CK could focus on classical technique while others could increase presentation of new directions. I found the new faces much more pertinent and more deserving to take the show forward but Kimball was the business creative force.
4
You don't get to fire someone and then sue him for being successful after that. Did they really expect him to go sit in a corner and cry? Kudos to Mr. Kimball.
50
A lawsuit to solve this? Can't they just have a food fight?
35
I think your photo speaks volumes.
7
A list of ingredients cannot be copyrighted. When I save away a recipe I always totally rewrite the procedure section, since it often assumes missing steps, even forgets to include listed ingredients, and is usually not written in my detailed style anyway. So if I share it or even publish it, there is no violation.
I always include some themed recipes with my holiday cards. This year is about special occasion recipes (last year was about comfort food revisited). Maida Heatter's "Amaretto-Amaretti Chocolate Cheesecake" is just not amenable to rewriting, it's from "Maida Heatter's Book of Great Chocolate Desserts." It is perfect, can only be cited as her creation, and made for those big occasions. Yum.
I always include some themed recipes with my holiday cards. This year is about special occasion recipes (last year was about comfort food revisited). Maida Heatter's "Amaretto-Amaretti Chocolate Cheesecake" is just not amenable to rewriting, it's from "Maida Heatter's Book of Great Chocolate Desserts." It is perfect, can only be cited as her creation, and made for those big occasions. Yum.
Sounds like the people who bought ATK from Kimball did not get a non compete clause. Tough luck. Owner shares in a company does mean you have a fiduciary responsibility to if. If you are an officer yes, but not just owning shares.
11
Dropped my subscription to CI earlier this year - just getting tired of the approach and relentless money-grubbing. But after reading this article, I will check out Milk Street.
7
CI has been becoming increasingly dull, and talk about formulaic. I am not a regular reader, nor a big fan of Christopher Kimball, but all power to him if he wants to start something new. I bought the first issue of Milk Street out of curiosity, and while I wasn't knocked over, I'd certainly buy at least a few more issues to see where it goes. I don't see how ATK can claim that "their" approach to cookery/recipes is being copied: take a look at the hundreds of thousands of cooking Web sites out there: recipes and Web formats are republished, rehashed, reissued, retread without any regard for originality. There is no such thing in cooking. It's all been done before. If you think it hasn't, you are a very new or very dull-witted cook. Let Mr. Kimball live in peace. If ATK has the right stuff to succeed, it will. If it doesn't, they bought a pig in a poke, and that's their problem. Sounds like some big-money guys thought they were being smart, but they didn't know that cooking style isn't intellectual property.
22
I no longer watch ATK since I realized that it is a totally WASP show. There is absolutely no ethnic diversity in the persons who appear. It builds into the myth of the bucolic, agricultural America that never was. The "idyllic" America that led to the Know-Nothing's. As a chef, I work with those who eat what I create. My goal is the pleasure of my guests, their good health, and their experience at the table. Dining is a social act and we live in an ethnically diverse societ y - not the rural fantasy of yesteryear's America - Robb, the Foribbean Chef
7
Sour Grapes as ATK realizes something it should have known all along, Mr. Kimball is WHY most of us liked ATK in the first place. We want his presence, writing and ideas and we are going to go where we can find them. I'm rooting for Mr. Kimball and this last move may also mean I'm giving up ATK.
11
Speak for yourself - what I liked about it was in spite of Kimball.
4
Most of us? I believe it's split between people who like him and those of us who find him repetitive and tedious.
4
What a shallow, adolescent concept seemingly underling this lawsuit. The new owners of America's Test Kitchen have added virtually nothing new, beyond increasing the frequency of harassing emails to it's customers. I'm sure Kimball, who I miss as a presence at ATC, does have new ideas and our nation has been built on entrepreneurship. He should be able to implement those new ideas, it seems to me. I see nothing mentioned in the )good) article that suggests any meaningful damage to ATC has been done.
8
I'll put it this way.....I'd vote for Chris on Tuesday.
5
Glad to see him go and wish he would retire already. Does the man even know how to cook anything? A quick look at his Wiki page shows zero experience as an actual chef. I think the emperor has no clothes.
9
This lawsuit and the behavior of CI reeks of corporate jealousy and greed. Whether you like Kimball or not, you can't deny the man the right to form his own business, especially after you push him out. The formats may be similar, but he's the one that coined the format. And there's enough of a difference for anyone to tell them apart. Funny enough, CI sent me one of their knockoff free magazines along with a deeply discounted subscription offer without me asking, just one week after I got the Milk Street issue I did request.
CI is clearly running scared, and while I was considering re-subscribing, this whole lawsuit has soured any loyalty I had for them. I'm moving with Kimball. He may not have the best personality, but what he has now is the sturdy foolproof format with things we've never seen before. It's something new, where CI is more of the same, with the added ingredient of corporate greed.
CI is clearly running scared, and while I was considering re-subscribing, this whole lawsuit has soured any loyalty I had for them. I'm moving with Kimball. He may not have the best personality, but what he has now is the sturdy foolproof format with things we've never seen before. It's something new, where CI is more of the same, with the added ingredient of corporate greed.
17
One reader said it best about him: joyless. Every time you watch Julia or Bridget cooking and testing the recipe, you wonder why he needs to stand there. "I'm the authority. I'm entitled. ..." He does believe in himself.
Over 1million in 2015 and 30 millions distributions - what percentage is this in ATK's profit?
Good thing that he goes "solo" because if he is real gold, he shines elsewhere.
Over 1million in 2015 and 30 millions distributions - what percentage is this in ATK's profit?
Good thing that he goes "solo" because if he is real gold, he shines elsewhere.
12
Part of his role is to represent us, the home cook, always asking why we have to do something.
1
The public isn't confused! America's Tet Kitchen sought to oust and basically humiliate Kimball by demoting him etc. Sounds like age discrimination and greedy board members. All the digital media stuff is waytoo much. They don't know when to stop. I hope Mr. Kimball wins.
19
I can never trust his bechamel now
8
This is hilarious.
1
CI recipes always seemed to me to be needlessly complicated and bland.
7
I gave up on them due to the incessant email barrage trying to sell me reheated cook books, adding paying additions to the subscription already expensive.
NYT Cooking is free, has recipes just as good or better; this has become old, along with Kimball, and yes, his condescending presence and attitude towards his staff in front of the cameras and his letters from Vermont were hard to take.
A few years ago, there was a really good presenter, then he disappeared. too bad.
NYT Cooking is free, has recipes just as good or better; this has become old, along with Kimball, and yes, his condescending presence and attitude towards his staff in front of the cameras and his letters from Vermont were hard to take.
A few years ago, there was a really good presenter, then he disappeared. too bad.
16
What makes many of the NYTimes recipes work for the average cook are the notes from the readers who have actually tried them!
1
Alas, NYT Cooking is no longer free!
Completely unimpressed with Milk Streets first issue. I feel CK is trying too hard with this venture to break out of ATKs mold. Yes, I agree that ATK is getting formulaic at this point. However, it seems a bit too cheeky that this Vermont guy is all of a sudden in love with spicy Chinese style sautéed greens (in the first issue of MS) when everyone know he couldn't stand more than a few red pepper flakes in anything at ATK.
7
I have been a Cooks Illustrated subscriber from day one and can state that the product has taken a nose dive since Mr. Kimball's departure. This suit may be what turns me into a former subscriber.
8
I was a subscriber to CI for several years, but tired of the formulaic approach to every recipe, and the over-emphasis on precision. Likewise, Kimble's self-indulgent column, seldom pertaining to food, never was spot on, and I began to think a not-so-secret aspiration to literary greatness propelled the whole enterprise, a sort of vanity press.
I just took a peek at Kimble's new milk toast Website, and the formula appears intact. Needless to say, I shall not subscribe.
Whether there is room for two food magazines utilizing the same formula, I leave to the marketplace. What is obvious to me at least is that Kimble feels he needs the audience. It is equally obvious that he is a creature of habit to the extreme. Did he break an agreement with CI? The legal battle could show a degree of experimentation that is missing from the magazines, but I doubt it.
I just took a peek at Kimble's new milk toast Website, and the formula appears intact. Needless to say, I shall not subscribe.
Whether there is room for two food magazines utilizing the same formula, I leave to the marketplace. What is obvious to me at least is that Kimble feels he needs the audience. It is equally obvious that he is a creature of habit to the extreme. Did he break an agreement with CI? The legal battle could show a degree of experimentation that is missing from the magazines, but I doubt it.
15
Kimball, not Kimble
2
Have watched this PBS show since its inception and have always enjoyed Mr. Kimball's enthusiasm and dry humor. Hope he wins the suit sounds like age discrimination to me.
38
Funny, I had observed there might be another kind of discrimination on the series. I don't watch ATK regularly, but I have never seen a non-white person on that show.
8
you didn't like him, you didn't want him, but no one else can have him.
is it corporate politics or high school?
is it corporate politics or high school?
114
This was a grave PR misstep on the part of ATK. Now Kimball's narrative pivots to David and Goliath scenario that only empowers him in the public eye and underscores the fact that without him there is no ATK brand. It would have been great to see what could have come from changing up ATK completely, perhaps elevating some of the show's personalities like Julia, Bridgette and the hipster guy, who seem to have a genuine passion for food, and letting them run with a new format. Kimball often seemed to stifle the joy of cooking with his science first approach. I'd like to see ATK let their leads loose with a more relaxed environment and create more dishes that reflect how people really eat and live today. I would emphasize simple, healthy, delicious meals that reflect the influence of ethnic cooking traditions that make modern American cooking so great. You're free to spice things up, ATK, now that the super-taster isn't in the kitchen. It's time to evolve.
61
I never got the idea that Kimball was a super-taster. Would they have spiked their buffalo wings with Tabasco if he was? Doubt it. I think that's more a matter of the kitchen being full of Yankee pallets, the exceptions being Julia and Bridget. Their chicken tikka masala recipe is a prime example of that.
3
If you watch almost any episode of the show, he complains about spice and emphasizes how easily things become too spicy for him.
2
This makes me think of the John Fogerty/Creedence Clearwater split, when the record company got an injunction to prevent Fogerty from playing songs HE WROTE!. Boston Common Press was pushing CK out anyway, so what is their gripe? That they can't keep him unemployed? ATK/CI/CC were all started by Kimball, and now they want to rip him off, put him on an ice flow. Shame on BCP. I got my inaugural copy of Milk Street, and will go with them Once you get the CI method of cooking down, there's not a lot more to learn. I also go with Kenji Alt, at Serious Eats, and Mark Bittman. Both are former ATK employees. Kenji's book just one the James Beard award. So what? There's room for everyone. BCP is leaving a BAD TASTE in my mouth.
53
At his new site, Serious Eats, Kenji cannot publish the famous burger recipe he created for ATK.
Practices such as restrictive non-competes, and aggressive enforcement of recipe copyrights have been common practices at ATK, long before Kimball's departure.
With Kimball's leadership position in the company, he clearly endorsed these practices. I'm guessing he feels differently now that he is on the other side.
Practices such as restrictive non-competes, and aggressive enforcement of recipe copyrights have been common practices at ATK, long before Kimball's departure.
With Kimball's leadership position in the company, he clearly endorsed these practices. I'm guessing he feels differently now that he is on the other side.
2
This is just a bunch of PR. From a legal standpoint these sorts of things are generally pretty cut and dried. Either there was a Non-Compete Agreement signed at the time of his separation from ATK/CI or there wasn't. If there wasn't, then they're probably SOL. From the Boston Globe article, Jack Bishop said, "He kept on saying he wasn’t going to compete,” ...I took him at his word. I think everyone on the board was taking him at his word.” If that's all they have, then they have nothing. If there is a non-compete, it depends on what it says.
Even if they have a non-compete, it may be unenforceable depending on when it was signed. Generally, at some point between one year and three years courts have traditionally found that the length of the non-compete is presumed to be unreasonable.
As far as "infringement" goes, there really isn't anything to infringe in recipe testing. Look at SeriousEats.com. It is by a former ATK/CI employee, and does similar things as the "old neighborhood" and arguably does them much better.
Even if they have a non-compete, it may be unenforceable depending on when it was signed. Generally, at some point between one year and three years courts have traditionally found that the length of the non-compete is presumed to be unreasonable.
As far as "infringement" goes, there really isn't anything to infringe in recipe testing. Look at SeriousEats.com. It is by a former ATK/CI employee, and does similar things as the "old neighborhood" and arguably does them much better.
27
That's simply not true, Awal. You cannot do work for a new employer while still employed and paid by the former one. When you do, you get into a great deal of hot water, and the article indicates there very strong evidence Kimball did so.
17
But it wasn't for a "new employer" it was for himself. You can't be stopped from self employment.
You can't be working for an employer that does not yet exist. That his friends helped him and then came to work for him is not the same thing.
1
Since Christopher Kimball's forced exit from AMT, I have decided not to renew my subscription to Cook's Illustrated. His absence from the magazine was immediately apparent, and it has become formulaic and its articles somewhat trivial, a repeated recitation of fussy, time-consuming protocols that have little to do with everyday cooking.
16
I am a Kimball loyalist. Why not? As a life- long lover of food preparation & innovation, I very early joined with Mr. Kimball's Scout troup. The. A T K group needs to suck it up & enjoy the franchise. Mr. Kimball is now fully fledged & has left the nest. Pidgeons, look out for eagles!
10
What a wasted article. 1100 words and not a single recipe.
69
wrong...it's a recipe for drama and cloak and daggers
3
on a small baking sheet with low sides pour out some of your favorite oil, a pinch of salt, liberally shake red chile flake, and then some garlic powder. Place chicken breast on it turning it over to make sure both sides are coated with the seasonings. Cover it with foil place it in 350 oven for 30 minutes (average time for average breast) remove from oven let rest, eat on a plate with winter squash & broccoli or dice it up and put it in a leafy salad or????? :)
6
how high and mighty so many on this comment thread are. mr kimball does what he loves and does it extremely well. if only we could all be so fortunate. i know he's helped make me a better cook and entertained me for free for countless hours. so i think he's entitled to all the success and money he's earned. i'd rather he have $30MM than some wall street guy. that's for sure.
36
I always got the feeling the Kimball is his own greatest fan. He is a child of the suburbs pretending to the great outdoorsman/farmer/small town everyman while projecting a great deal of smugness.
92
Kimball's faux-folksy column in Cook's Illustrated, about the joys of owning a weekend home in the Vermont countryside, was perhaps the most insufferable and self-indulgent thing I ever read in a major magazine.
I do think Cook's and America's Test Kitchen he created are good resources for home cooks, especially beginners.
I do think Cook's and America's Test Kitchen he created are good resources for home cooks, especially beginners.
51
The very worst part of the Kimball's persona was the way he treated his capable (generally female) staff who did all of the work. How they kept themselves from briefly whisking one of his bow ties is quite beyond me.
45
I really can't abide CK. But I like CI years ago and I like the trial issue of Milk Street. The lawsuit seems silly.
7
I liked the response from Adam Rapaport (in the article) that "you do what you do". Kimball's style, such as is is, is his thing, and you can neither copyright it nor protect it. Nor can you sue him for being him.
Well, yes, in America you can sue anyone for anything it seems. I agree with some of the other comments here - ATK is not a shining paradigm of cooking excellence, and their web site seems to be more concerned with taking your money than sharing anything. I don't mind occasionally watching the show, but confess that I rarely learn anything of value.
Kimball is a smart, talented man and I wish him luck in his future endeavors. I don't expect that CKMS will be something that I will buy, but I'm sure plenty of people will.
Well, yes, in America you can sue anyone for anything it seems. I agree with some of the other comments here - ATK is not a shining paradigm of cooking excellence, and their web site seems to be more concerned with taking your money than sharing anything. I don't mind occasionally watching the show, but confess that I rarely learn anything of value.
Kimball is a smart, talented man and I wish him luck in his future endeavors. I don't expect that CKMS will be something that I will buy, but I'm sure plenty of people will.
31
As a former subscriber to Cook's Illustrated, i became disillusioned when it became clear that Mr. Kimball's primary concern is money. And his phony homespun Vermont persona...rather a spoiled rich kid from Westchester County slumming in Vermont on weekends.
Good luck to American Test Kitchens!
Good luck to American Test Kitchens!
50
Well true, Vermont is regarded the red-headed stepchild of New England by the other five states primarily due to the number of New Yorkers.
1
Who knows what goes on between the sheets in a kitchen, but Christopher Kimball was the identity of America's Test Kitchen. If his contract allowed him to pursue other, new ventures, and didn't restrict him from using certain proprietary ideas, approaches, etc., that he developed at ATK, then his accusers seem to be realizing that ATK without him isn't the same. On the other hand, if Kimball did wrongly usurp proprietary information for use in what is deemed to be a competitive venture, then the dish he thought he was serving up might never be served.
Either way, the adage that revenge, like crow, are best off being served up cold might well come into play before this is over. America's Test Case!
Either way, the adage that revenge, like crow, are best off being served up cold might well come into play before this is over. America's Test Case!
10
It is clear from earlier NYT coverage that many viewers dislike Christopher Kimball's personal style, and therefore were happy to see him leave ATK. The new management thought the show and the magazine were bigger than CK, and were happy to let him go. But Chris has proven to be far more creative and essential than they realized, and now they are jealous of his new venture. Let's face it, is ATK going to last very long without Christopher Kimball?
76
Reminds me of the Woody Allen joke in where he incorporates and names his parents and some relatives to the board, and they get together and try to squeeze him out.
5
Got a copy of Milk Street in the mail. Nothing is new in it and like Martha Stewart, it appropriates and self congratulates. It was boring in the same passionless way Cook's Illustrated could often be. I really don't care what any of them do individually or to each other. I only care about whether of not having received this free issue is the beginning of the relentless marketing style of Cook's and if so how to get it to stop.
45
Amen to your last sentence. Years ago, I bought one book from Cook's, who then proceeded to send me another and another, and charge me, and refuse to take the books back (unopened) when I explained I hadn't ordered them. It took forever to get rid of them, and I vowed never to even subscribe to the magazine after that. They were obnoxious.
2
Try prayer,
The public, or at least the target audience of both publications, i.e. foodies, is not confused. The members of the Facebook group dedicated to ATK and Milk Street are clear about the difference. I would say most people in that demographic want both magazines to succeed. If Kimball stole customer lists from ATK, it looks like he did a poor job of using them, as I am a longtime Cooks Illustrated subscriber, yet any information I got directly from Milk Street came *after* I signed up for the free first issue via Facebook. It is not uncommon in any field for a top executive's departure to result in other employees leaving with said exec, especially when the departure is acrimonious. I don't know anything about the other allegations, but if they lack the merit of the three I mentioned, there's not much of a case here.
I think what this is really about is that ATK is afraid. Post-Kimball CI has lost its personality and seems lackluster, even though the content is as solid as ever. Milk Street's debut issue has all the sparkle CI lost. ATK, rather than trying to up its game, is spending time and money trying to crush the man who created it. I am disappointed in them, though not ready to quit subscribing--yet.
I think what this is really about is that ATK is afraid. Post-Kimball CI has lost its personality and seems lackluster, even though the content is as solid as ever. Milk Street's debut issue has all the sparkle CI lost. ATK, rather than trying to up its game, is spending time and money trying to crush the man who created it. I am disappointed in them, though not ready to quit subscribing--yet.
56
As a long term Cooks Illustrated subscriber both in print and online I was surprised to find myself last year deciding to move on. Our relationship was done. Rather glad now after reading this. Chris Kimball is as entitled as any creative person to continue to do what he does within whatever vehicle. Looks like a lawyer generated a case for himself. Shame on ATK for taking it up.
36
Chris Kimball created a huge brand from scratch and then had the good sense to sell it for more than it was worth to some nimrod master-of-the-universe private equity guys who arrogantly failed to recognize that Chris Kimball is the brand. Without Chris Kimball there is no brand. I am a long time subscriber/viewer of Chris's productions and I have no interest in those productions if Chris is not involved.
114
Kimball seems to think he should be able to have his cake and eat it too.
8
Why not? He baked the cake.
6
Or he had some women bake the cake for him, while he stood there attempting witticisms.
5
Just what we need: Kitchengate. Sad.
4
ATK shouldn't have pushed him out.
23
This is silly. It's a big kitchen, room enough for everyone. It just makes ATK look like a bully. You didn't want the guy, so let him leave and have a life. Good grief.
84
I'm not interested in the lawsuit nonsense or the egos or suchlike, but I am interested in Mr. Kimball's new plans. A hopeful note is that his new venture "has a more global focus than America’s Test Kitchen."
Much as I love Cooks' Illustrated approach to deconstructing and reconstructing recipes in far better ways, they've gotten a little ... dowdy ... over the last ten years or so. Their occasional forays into Asian dishes are sometimes great, but just as often tone-deaf.
Much as I love Cooks' Illustrated approach to deconstructing and reconstructing recipes in far better ways, they've gotten a little ... dowdy ... over the last ten years or so. Their occasional forays into Asian dishes are sometimes great, but just as often tone-deaf.
18
Dowdy is exactly the right word.
1
We see this all the time in California, a creative genius starts a successful company. Outside management is brought in to run and expand the company. However, these admin types always turn out to be greedy apparatchiks, and it becomes even money as to whether the company will survive. Apple is a very good example of this phenomenon.
33
This reminds a little of the "This Old House" break-u with original creator Bob Vila as well.
16
Well, Apple was a good example of this pattern in the late 80s, when the board of directors fired Steve Jobs. Things changed, however, when the founder returned to the company. I can't see that happening at ATK, however...
I think the Vila situation was a little different - if I recall correctly. It was an ugly split but more along the lines of "what does this show and PBS stand for?" The key issues were (1) how the projects had become increasingly overblown and away from the show's core mission and (2) Vila's outside endorsement income. It strikes me that in simpler times, although PBS and its shows rely heavily on sponsorship -- it was considered controversial for the host/creator to benefit personally (and not as part of the show) from those endorsements.
He should be sued for damaging the art of cooking in America. He cooks soulless unhealthy food that doesn't even reward with taste. Cooking is 75% art and 25% science not the reverse which he always seemed to preach.
19
I think CI/ATK has done an excellent job over the years of really equipping new cooks and giving them confidence to succeed. If you're successful with a recipe - due to their incredibly detailed approach to everything - then you're inspired to cook more, learn more, and eventually experiment beyond printed recipes and methods.
This has been my personal experience with CI/ATK and I'm thankful for their content over the years. It's made me into a much, much better cook and I'm now to the point of confidently - and SUCCESSFULLY - experimenting with my cooking.
This has been my personal experience with CI/ATK and I'm thankful for their content over the years. It's made me into a much, much better cook and I'm now to the point of confidently - and SUCCESSFULLY - experimenting with my cooking.
32
You don't like his approach so ignore it. But sue him?
3
Of all the problems in the food industry in America and we have to read about this. Really? It's as depressing as someone who eats at the creme de la creme of the culinary world of NYC most nights of the week and reports hither here with descriptions of non-sustainable extravagances of rich elite New Yorkais with no regard for the peril the planet is in. A safe cozy world where they do not have to account for any politics of food.
12
Is not Kimball starting a venture in Portland Maine???
3
Chris Kimball has certainly earned the right to have his own brand. I can't even imagine how someone can be accused of plagiarizing a recipe style, as the style seems to be ubiquitous. It's virtually impossible to distinguish a recipe style.
I certainly hope that the new site's name is not indicative of a policy to "milk" consumers out of many dollars just to view the entire site, as ATK does. They don't even give access to their magazine subscribers.
I certainly hope that the new site's name is not indicative of a policy to "milk" consumers out of many dollars just to view the entire site, as ATK does. They don't even give access to their magazine subscribers.
117
It's located on Milk St. in Boston.
5
I am in agreement about no access to the digital site when you are a paying magazine subscriber. Made Cook's Illustrated look like a chintzy, money grubbing enterprise.
21
I disagree. There should be perks for magazine subscribers, especially as the site essentially piggybacks on the magazine. At the very least, there should be a substantial discount on site access for magazine subscribers.
Lapham's does this, The Atlantic under their new policy does not. That is why I am not subscribing to the Atlantic site, and am cancelling my magazine subscription.
Lapham's does this, The Atlantic under their new policy does not. That is why I am not subscribing to the Atlantic site, and am cancelling my magazine subscription.
Chris Kimball, the King of Glum. From the magazine story:
“I hate the idea that cooking should be a celebration or a party,” Kimball told me over a bowl of chicken-and-vegetable soup at his regular lunch haunt, a Brookline, Mass., pub called Matt Murphy’s. “Cooking is about putting food on the table night after night, and there isn’t anything glamorous about it.”
What a joyless man.
“I hate the idea that cooking should be a celebration or a party,” Kimball told me over a bowl of chicken-and-vegetable soup at his regular lunch haunt, a Brookline, Mass., pub called Matt Murphy’s. “Cooking is about putting food on the table night after night, and there isn’t anything glamorous about it.”
What a joyless man.
79
I don't think he's particularly joyless, just intensely practical. It's obvious that he enjoys the field in his own capacity, otherwise he would not have made it his career. I believe his idea is that food should serve a purpose and I think people miss that point. Based off of what I've observed from ATK, he's not particularly concerned with flowery decoration or elaborate flavor profiles, but simple arrangements which carry the capability of packing a powerful and flavorful punch.
80
Typical of someone who hates garlic...
7
@ David M
Chris Kimball has not made food his career, at least not directly. He has made a career out of making money.
Someone interested in "packing a powerful and flavorful punch". That's what I fell like packing when reading his recipes, and his achingly dull prose. Best wishes to him, and good riddance.
Chris Kimball has not made food his career, at least not directly. He has made a career out of making money.
Someone interested in "packing a powerful and flavorful punch". That's what I fell like packing when reading his recipes, and his achingly dull prose. Best wishes to him, and good riddance.
12