Britain's social services are overtaxed as it is. The NHS is swamped, public housing in short supply for British citizens (many have been on waiting lists for years ). Yet, these illegal immigrants are given preferential treatment. They receive cash allowances, free medical care and housing. The Red Cross gives them prepaid cell phones so they can call home-no doubt to encourage their friend and relatives to come to Britain. It's no wonder that the British working class are fed up with this influx of the useless.
2
The UK government has a case to answer here. In the face of the greatest humanitarian crisis in modern times it must defend itself against the charge that it has dragged its feet,failed to take in refugees at the same rate as its European partners, has pandered to the right-wing factions who, without evidence, label the refugees a 'economic migrants', ad has been the driving force behind the misery of the Jungle camp. The French authorities have been accused elsewhere (in the British press, including the Guardian) of dispersing the migrants in a chaotic way, but in their defence, it appears that they are doing something while the British are doing nothing. Some people in Britain, I should say, however, are at least ashamed of their government's response.
1
To read population projections for the African continent is one of the most terrifying ways to pass your time. In the year 1900, all of Africa was home to only about 132 million people--same as the combined populations of Britain, France, and Germany in that year. That's one of the big reasons why European armies were able to invade and carve up the African continent with such relative ease in the late 19th century--there were just way more Europeans than there were Africans. To have tried direct territorial conquest in much more heavily populated China would have been suicidal--as the Japanese would find out in the 1930s and 1940s.
But in 2016, Africa is now home to more than 1.2 billion people--greater than that of any continent except Asia and fast approaching the populations of India and China. Africa is projected to have around 2.5 billion people by 2050. People are already declaring that a "3rd Great Migration" out of Africa is taking place. The first occurred when our common ancestors, the world's first humans who had evolved from non-human primates, walked out of modern-day Kenya and Tanzania to every corner of the globe.
The 2nd great migration out of Africa was the dreadful forced migration to the Americas from the 15th to the 19th centuries for slave labor purposes. Now the 3rd and maybe most catastrophic migration is underway from a continent that cannot handle all the babies being born daily. This may turn into a tragedy of unimaginable proportions very soon.
But in 2016, Africa is now home to more than 1.2 billion people--greater than that of any continent except Asia and fast approaching the populations of India and China. Africa is projected to have around 2.5 billion people by 2050. People are already declaring that a "3rd Great Migration" out of Africa is taking place. The first occurred when our common ancestors, the world's first humans who had evolved from non-human primates, walked out of modern-day Kenya and Tanzania to every corner of the globe.
The 2nd great migration out of Africa was the dreadful forced migration to the Americas from the 15th to the 19th centuries for slave labor purposes. Now the 3rd and maybe most catastrophic migration is underway from a continent that cannot handle all the babies being born daily. This may turn into a tragedy of unimaginable proportions very soon.
5
Being English and leaving not to far from the coast of South East England...I would say that the majority of those in the camps are Economic migrants...and not what Britain wants. We are willing to take the youngsters who have family already in Britain and some that do not.
The behaviour of some in the camps is frightening ...many carry knives and weapons that have been used on our truck drivers and even on our TV Reporters.
Another thing you have to ask is why so many men ...where are the woman and young girls?
Since Brexit and myself a Brexiteer we do not want these Economic migrants in our country...they are getting frustrated as they are finding it hard to now get in. Genuine cases we are happy to accept.
The French are to blame for this jungle...but like the French they blame everyone else and never themselves always the victim.
What makes me laugh is that these migrants should claim asylum in the first country they arrive in...yet they pay hundred of Euros paying smugglers to get them to a country that they can get houses and benefits in...surely if you are that desperate you would be happy at the first country you arrived in.
The behaviour of some in the camps is frightening ...many carry knives and weapons that have been used on our truck drivers and even on our TV Reporters.
Another thing you have to ask is why so many men ...where are the woman and young girls?
Since Brexit and myself a Brexiteer we do not want these Economic migrants in our country...they are getting frustrated as they are finding it hard to now get in. Genuine cases we are happy to accept.
The French are to blame for this jungle...but like the French they blame everyone else and never themselves always the victim.
What makes me laugh is that these migrants should claim asylum in the first country they arrive in...yet they pay hundred of Euros paying smugglers to get them to a country that they can get houses and benefits in...surely if you are that desperate you would be happy at the first country you arrived in.
16
Welcome to Brexit Britain, where every racist has found a voice!
2
Centuries of colonialism and fragile and coerced alliances with U.S. foreign policy incompetence are now coming home to roost, dotting the European and soon American landscape with refugee flight to an imagined promised land of permeable borders, yet barren of hospitality.
Perhaps better than suffering through errant and unclaimed airstrikes in the night, this record flight from fright is now the transit of choice for millions, eager to resettle and repopulate and co-mingle or not with foreign brethren once proffering an open hand and now just a slap on the wrist, lost in a cold sweat of being despoiled and becoming a cultural melting pot.
How ironic and a jungle indeed, n’est-ce pas?
Perhaps better than suffering through errant and unclaimed airstrikes in the night, this record flight from fright is now the transit of choice for millions, eager to resettle and repopulate and co-mingle or not with foreign brethren once proffering an open hand and now just a slap on the wrist, lost in a cold sweat of being despoiled and becoming a cultural melting pot.
How ironic and a jungle indeed, n’est-ce pas?
Every democracy, everyone of the countries taking would be out numbered and would surely sink under the weight of Islamic refugee open doors. We will never be an Islamic nation.
8
How many of them wish to be French, I wonder? How many of them will simply set up their own mini-nations in the midst of the French, refusing to learn French and clinging to their own culture and traditions, no matter how anathema to French culture and ideals? France is not built on magic dirt. It is the people that make France what it is. What these immigrants come for is the French culture, government, people, and traditions---whether they want to admit it or not. Their own cultures have failed massively on the most fundamental scale, and France is saving them. I hope they choose to integrate smoothly now that they have the freedom to make such choices.
14
We are testing our theories of refugee/ immigration/economic migration, and are finding them wanting, in that results, quite literally, are blowing up in our faces. I find this result on many difficult issues partly because understanding civics is hardly our citizens' strong points, and international relations run a distant second to that; a double whammy. Assimilation requirements dissolved when a lack of nuance about Western Culture was subsumed beneath an avalanche of Western self-criticism. They must be good, because the powerless can't be racist or fascist or oppressive to women or hold ideas antithetical to free democratic countries, can they???...Hence, Hamas fires rockets into Israel but they're "third rate, with no warheads", so do they really count? And random stabbings of unarmed civilians, running them down in cars, slaughtering priests, grandmothers and children? But these people simply must be "good" to the Western mind because they are currently powerless, and powerless people are righteous.So, despite evidence in front of us, by default according to the rule of "powerlessness"...these are righteous actions. They simply must be! But do you honestly not know history? That the Islamic warlords during the glory days of the Caliph were the most rapacious of "colonialists" -- ask India, especially, ask Spain, Portugal, and Greece, and the Vienna battles that sent Muslims packing to Arabia on Sep.11th in the 1600's. Catch that date? Sep. 11th? Bin Laden did.
9
What is the population going to be in another 25-50 years in Africa?
Europe better start getting busy doing something, (defending their borders?) or it won't exist as we know it today, in another couple of generations.
How long did it take Spain to expel Muslims in the past? Hundreds and hundreds of years.
Europe better start getting busy doing something, (defending their borders?) or it won't exist as we know it today, in another couple of generations.
How long did it take Spain to expel Muslims in the past? Hundreds and hundreds of years.
8
History, like Civics, is undergoing serious neglect and the results are evident. Few read that the Inquisition in 1492 (familiar date, historians?) was partly charged with ensuring no Muslims remained in Spain, sequestered away and waiting to revive tbeir fortunes. Greece also had a fun few hundred years expelling what their leader called a "hateful, predatory religion and political system."
Oh....that's highly incendiary and would incur charges in the UK and Deutschland. What rough beast slouches toward Bethlehem to be borne? Wouldb't Yeats be surprised at the form his "nationalistic" (read:condemned) poetry project took in its presience?
Oh....that's highly incendiary and would incur charges in the UK and Deutschland. What rough beast slouches toward Bethlehem to be borne? Wouldb't Yeats be surprised at the form his "nationalistic" (read:condemned) poetry project took in its presience?
The vast majority of the people, living in the West, are ready and willing to help 'refugees' and economic migrants-- in their country of origin.
We could be helping these people right now but a small minority will not give up on the idea of adopting every single person with a pulse and a sad story into our countries.
And what has that led to? Mass drownings. Violence. Lost hope.
Please- those that insist we take every single person on the planet (soon to be 10 billion) think about what you are doing. You are giving up any chance to help these people by pushing for policies that majorities of your fellow citizens do not support.
There are more, and better, solutions than just transferring tens of millions of people from one place to another.
Economic migration needs to be banned.
We could be helping these people right now but a small minority will not give up on the idea of adopting every single person with a pulse and a sad story into our countries.
And what has that led to? Mass drownings. Violence. Lost hope.
Please- those that insist we take every single person on the planet (soon to be 10 billion) think about what you are doing. You are giving up any chance to help these people by pushing for policies that majorities of your fellow citizens do not support.
There are more, and better, solutions than just transferring tens of millions of people from one place to another.
Economic migration needs to be banned.
14
So now we see the end product of unfettered illegal immigration by the "enlighted" Europeans. When I hear out liberal elites describe how Scandinavia or Europe are so far ahead of the US with their social policies, I often wonder if these high thinkers ever stop to think of people who live out side of Berlin, Paris or Brussels.
Either way. Another bit of liberal nonsense that is debunked with time. Germany and idiot Merkel are next.
Either way. Another bit of liberal nonsense that is debunked with time. Germany and idiot Merkel are next.
10
The many commenters who think the problem is overpopulation and the solution to this problem is birth control sound one step off advocating eugenics.
"Their" problem is not overbreeding, It's failed states, economic collapse and drought. Droughts that are getting both more frequent and more prolonged, across both Africa and the Middle East. Contraception won't solve that.
"Their" problem is not overbreeding, It's failed states, economic collapse and drought. Droughts that are getting both more frequent and more prolonged, across both Africa and the Middle East. Contraception won't solve that.
Many states have failed because of over-population.
Droughts are getting worse because of over-use of resources and climate change (climate change is fueled by population).
Eugenics is directed reproduction to enhance or diminish traits. This is not that. Unless you consider poverty a biological trait.
And if you have a 'type' and procreate with that person you, too, are practicing eugenics.
Droughts are getting worse because of over-use of resources and climate change (climate change is fueled by population).
Eugenics is directed reproduction to enhance or diminish traits. This is not that. Unless you consider poverty a biological trait.
And if you have a 'type' and procreate with that person you, too, are practicing eugenics.
8
As someone with a strong academic biology background, I would recommend you look up the definition of "carrying capacity". You can have prolonged droughts and civilizations can sustain themselves through them, but not with uncontrolled and burgeoning populations.
3
The Jungle is the tip of the iceberg. Europe must face how it is going to handle the steady stream, flood really, of people crossing over from north Africa. This traffic grows year by year, fueled by human traffickers who make large sums of money by putting desperate people's lives at risk, even by killing them.
There's an excellent op-ed piece on the Times website right now about the subject. I encourage all to read it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/24/opinion/a-modest-proposal-to-end-death...
There's an excellent op-ed piece on the Times website right now about the subject. I encourage all to read it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/24/opinion/a-modest-proposal-to-end-death...
5
Well, I always wonder why so many people wants to come to the EU?
Many of these people are from the Middle East, or places there islam is the main religion. The middle East is a vast place, and holds some of the richest countries in the world, and the culture and climate is more similar than european. Yet so many people flock to the EU, there they most likely will be denied to stay, and properly sent home soon after comming. And after the many terror attacks, they are barely tolerated by the public.
So I will sit back and watch the EU fall apart, loose its international importance, and economic decline - the future grows dimmer every day.
Many of these people are from the Middle East, or places there islam is the main religion. The middle East is a vast place, and holds some of the richest countries in the world, and the culture and climate is more similar than european. Yet so many people flock to the EU, there they most likely will be denied to stay, and properly sent home soon after comming. And after the many terror attacks, they are barely tolerated by the public.
So I will sit back and watch the EU fall apart, loose its international importance, and economic decline - the future grows dimmer every day.
15
It's kind of like a Crusades.
1
"The migrants, mostly young men..."
I found this opening statement surprising, since the media's focus (including the Times') has repeatedly been on families and children. This fact casts this situation in quite a different light.
And it seems telling how selective these "desperate" refugees are in where they want to go. Somehow, I'd imagine that a desperate refugee would gladly go to any nation that would provide safe haven, not cherry-pick countries with generous social services systems.
Not to minimize a terrible situation, but this article suggests that this situation is not quite as it has been presented...
I found this opening statement surprising, since the media's focus (including the Times') has repeatedly been on families and children. This fact casts this situation in quite a different light.
And it seems telling how selective these "desperate" refugees are in where they want to go. Somehow, I'd imagine that a desperate refugee would gladly go to any nation that would provide safe haven, not cherry-pick countries with generous social services systems.
Not to minimize a terrible situation, but this article suggests that this situation is not quite as it has been presented...
30
"this article suggests that this situation is not quite as it has been presented...""
You think? It is very informative to go back over the past year or so of NY Times headlines and articles (and those in other select media like The Guardian or the BBC) to see how this issue has been "presented."
You think? It is very informative to go back over the past year or so of NY Times headlines and articles (and those in other select media like The Guardian or the BBC) to see how this issue has been "presented."
1
The overwhelming majority of these comment by liberal NYT readers on this article and many previous related ones understand that the West cannot solve all of the problems of the global south by opening up the West to each and every migrant who wants to come to the West. Also, the commenters do want to help the migrants, e.g. by helping them help themselves, in their own countries or regions. Teach them to fish so that they can fish for a lifetime, so to speak.
Yet, probably most NYT readers will be casting their vote for a pro-open borders candidate. If so, expect that this migration problem to only increase, in the US under Hillary's administration and in the EU under the administrations of Hillary's counterparts. Hillary has been open about her fondness for Merkel and apparently wants to replicate in the US what Merkel has wrought on the EU.
These leaders are not serving the interests of the citizens of the West, and have disregarded their needs, chiefly safety, law, order, and the retention of their cultural identity, all of which is under increasing stress from this mass migration.
Yet, probably most NYT readers will be casting their vote for a pro-open borders candidate. If so, expect that this migration problem to only increase, in the US under Hillary's administration and in the EU under the administrations of Hillary's counterparts. Hillary has been open about her fondness for Merkel and apparently wants to replicate in the US what Merkel has wrought on the EU.
These leaders are not serving the interests of the citizens of the West, and have disregarded their needs, chiefly safety, law, order, and the retention of their cultural identity, all of which is under increasing stress from this mass migration.
22
This election is no choice at all. Hobson's choice. Sophie's choice.
4
Unfortunately the GOP has not offered an acceptable alternative. Clearly, we need to express our views more forcefully to our political representatives and "leaders".
7
The Interior Ministry says that "the immense majority of migrants ... are eligible for protection". The French populace is not stupid. They know this is not the case.
There is an internationally accepted definition of "refugee" and who qualifies for it. Most of these people likely do not qualify.
Article 1(A)(2) of the 1951 Convention (UN Refugee Agency) defines a refugee as an individual who is outside his or her country of nationality or habitual residence who is unable or unwilling to return due to a well-founded fear of persecution based on his or her race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or membership in a particular social group. Applying this definition, ... individuals who have crossed an international border fleeing generalized violence are not considered refugees under either the 1951 Convention or the 1967 Optional Protocol.
There is an internationally accepted definition of "refugee" and who qualifies for it. Most of these people likely do not qualify.
Article 1(A)(2) of the 1951 Convention (UN Refugee Agency) defines a refugee as an individual who is outside his or her country of nationality or habitual residence who is unable or unwilling to return due to a well-founded fear of persecution based on his or her race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or membership in a particular social group. Applying this definition, ... individuals who have crossed an international border fleeing generalized violence are not considered refugees under either the 1951 Convention or the 1967 Optional Protocol.
12
Hey everybody! I have an idea. Let's all move to Switzerland. Who cares how the Swiss feel about it.
20
France helps to destroy Libya and there the responsibility ends, but that is France now, all destruction of a people in the Middle East and no responsibility. I am beyond disappointed.
3
No doubt all those small French towns will be glad to have bums and vagrants dumped in their towns.
39
Merkels madness. The first world cannot accept the whole exploding unemployable restless population of the third world. This is a problem of overpopulation. Only birth control will save the planet.
52
Or a world war. Could Aleppo be the jump off point?
4
Overpopulation? Is that the new term for the Syrian war?
5
The large majority of people in The Jungle were from Africa, with substantial numbers from Afghanistan ... NOT Syria.
Germany registered more than 1.1 Million new "asylum seekers" in 2015, of which around 40% were Syrian, according to the German Interior Ministry. My hunch is that he 40% figure is an over-estimate, in part because many of the immigrants who are not Syrian and know they will not qualify as refugees simply remain hidden from the official system.
Certainly the hundreds, sometimes thousands, who attempt to cross over from North Africa every day are not Syrians.
Germany registered more than 1.1 Million new "asylum seekers" in 2015, of which around 40% were Syrian, according to the German Interior Ministry. My hunch is that he 40% figure is an over-estimate, in part because many of the immigrants who are not Syrian and know they will not qualify as refugees simply remain hidden from the official system.
Certainly the hundreds, sometimes thousands, who attempt to cross over from North Africa every day are not Syrians.
2
When governments fail to take common sense action in terms of irregular migration and cave to the demands of far left organizations the rise of the far-right is not too far behind.
There is no reason for there to be refugees from the Sudan, Eritrea or Afghanistan in France. There are plenty of safe countries between the source countries and France. If they are truly fleeing conflict they can seek refuge in these places.
There is no reason for there to be refugees from the Sudan, Eritrea or Afghanistan in France. There are plenty of safe countries between the source countries and France. If they are truly fleeing conflict they can seek refuge in these places.
44
Billions of U.S. and western dollars have been spent on Afghanistan, most of which seems to end up in the honey pots of the pious Gulf States. Sudan, especially South Sudan, has enormous hydrocarbon resources. Many African nations do. It's absurd to grant "refugee" status to Nigerians considering Nigeria is an oil superpower. And the miserable government of Eritrea has kept its population on a war footing for decades. The common denominator here is a corrupt, dysfunctional elite that keeps its nation in tatters. And western citizens are continually guilt-tripped and lectured to by open borders advocates.
1
The dissent about France cleaning up this abysmal refugee camp is amusing to me. Y'all don't seem to realize how this camp would have been handled by the nations a lot of the refugees are coming from. In places like Syria, Sudan, Afghanistan, and many other sources of refugees, the government would have gunned down everyone in the camp to clean it up.
Regardless of what happens, these people are very lucky not to be suffering their own tyrants and their tyrannical cultures any more. They have no real reason to complain about anything France does, it won't be as bad as what they'd suffer in their own nations.
Regardless of what happens, these people are very lucky not to be suffering their own tyrants and their tyrannical cultures any more. They have no real reason to complain about anything France does, it won't be as bad as what they'd suffer in their own nations.
36
You hit the nail square on the head. Too bad the leftie-luvvies can't see common sense.
1
If these folks want to move to France or Europe they should be required to do it the right way. Show up at the European embassy of your choice, make an application where you convince them that you want to become one of them and that you want to abandoned your old ways and wait your turn.
If you think that going to Europe and continuing to do things your way with the costumes and 6th century headgear and sharia and halal is what you want then clearly Europe is it for you. Find someplace in your own region to move to or stay put.
If you think that going to Europe and continuing to do things your way with the costumes and 6th century headgear and sharia and halal is what you want then clearly Europe is it for you. Find someplace in your own region to move to or stay put.
34
Actually, as I recall some decades ago , reading an article about groups of individuals from outside France , as the "chunnell" was built, the French simply looked the other way in order to move the immigrants to the other side-ignoring them as they walked through or hitched rides- rather than to allow them to stay in France. That it has become a perennial problem is not surprising.
10
I read just some months ago in the NYT that scientists predict that before or by century's end, enormous areas of the middle east will be uninhabitable.
Where will the hundreds of millions there go? Mostly, north. It's the nearest, with the most developed infrastructure.
Unfun. Unfun. Very unfun.
Where will the hundreds of millions there go? Mostly, north. It's the nearest, with the most developed infrastructure.
Unfun. Unfun. Very unfun.
15
Nice opening for global corporatist recolonization. And if you think I am being facetious, think again.
6
Cake or death? While corporations are trying to recolonize, they will kill each other off as global warming accelerates.
2
I believe in universal, free birth control, not in open borders or unfettered immigration. There are too many human beings on earth as it is; and certainly too many poor and uneducated ones. France and other countries have to severely limit there numbers or there will be no France left.
36
I heartily agree. I just want to point out that the Muslim cultures from which most of these immigrants come discourage the use of birth control. Big families are encouraged and a sign of success in society. Children are "blessings from God" and so forth.
Fundamental social/religious attitudes will have to change before birth control will become readily accepted and used frequently.
So, in the end, it comes down to ideas. Ideas must change. Societies must learn and evolve.
And I agree with you that we should promote that evolution, through increasing access to birth control. If we want to avoid a big mess within our own shores we should try to help those people, BEFORE they leave their homes and invade ours.
Personally, I wish we didn't have to give them any notice. But that's not an option. If we ignore them they will come to us. Therefore we must intercede in their societies. It's a sort of "forward defensive" strategy.
Fundamental social/religious attitudes will have to change before birth control will become readily accepted and used frequently.
So, in the end, it comes down to ideas. Ideas must change. Societies must learn and evolve.
And I agree with you that we should promote that evolution, through increasing access to birth control. If we want to avoid a big mess within our own shores we should try to help those people, BEFORE they leave their homes and invade ours.
Personally, I wish we didn't have to give them any notice. But that's not an option. If we ignore them they will come to us. Therefore we must intercede in their societies. It's a sort of "forward defensive" strategy.
5
The disastrous economic and security impact of millions of illegal aliens who have no interest in assimilating into western European culture and languages has been evident and obvious to us all the past two years.
While not politically correct, France should repatriate these immigrants immediately. This is the only way for France to try to become French again.
While not politically correct, France should repatriate these immigrants immediately. This is the only way for France to try to become French again.
35
Please offer a suggestion on how to "repatriate" to a war zone.
1
Gabbyboy, there's an excellent discussion of that topic in another op-ed piece. It IS possible to resolve that problem.
Here's the link.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/24/opinion/a-modest-proposal-to-end-death...
Here's the link.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/24/opinion/a-modest-proposal-to-end-death...
The article is full of compassion and good will but there is still a fundamental brutal question to be answered. I ask the question from the point of view of a persecuted, stateless refugee in 1946-1955. You have to decide if they are in fact “refugees” in the true sense of the word since they are mainly young men - as the photographs you feature confirm - or are they economic immigrants who have abandoned their countries and are refusing to fight to make their countries better. See my comments “The World’s Refugees – Regrets Remorse”
http://deyanbrashich.com/home/2016/2/3/the-worlds-refugees-memories-regr...
“Are They Migrants, Refugees or Deserters?”
http://deyanbrashich.com/home/2015/10/30/migrants-refugees-or-deserters....
http://deyanbrashich.com/home/2016/2/3/the-worlds-refugees-memories-regr...
“Are They Migrants, Refugees or Deserters?”
http://deyanbrashich.com/home/2015/10/30/migrants-refugees-or-deserters....
22
I have posted the legal definition of a refugee in a comment above. I STRONGLY doubt that most of these people meet it, despite what the French Interior Ministry. And I'm quite sure that most French people know the definition as well. They are not being fooled by the Interior Ministry. Government dishonesty, such as the statement in the article by the Ministry, that the "immense majority" of migrants qualify as refugees, is doing nothing more than undermining French confidence in the current government and will inevitably contribute to a rise in support for the "far right", the only politicians willing to talk honestly and openly about the problems facing French society due to misguided sympathy and multi-culturalism.
4
Yes many of those in the Jungle have broken the law to arrive at Calais. I am amazed at the lack of empathy for these human beings. I'd ask you one thing. Did you have any control over the time and place you were born? Do you know what it is like to flee your home to STAY ALIVE. Would you really sit at home waiting to die of starvation, or war because you do not want to break the law? You have no understanding what these men are leaving and why they were sent. Their families are hoping for BASIC survival. Walking with these men is their entire families hope for a better life. Until we all begin to really understand this could be us. This could be our life. This could be you. Please do not take credit for having the life you have when so much of it was random luck. Seriously, the last thing we need to do is turn them away. If more people recognized how little they control about their own circumstances we could solve these problems.
7
Perhaps if you were among the Calais citizens whose daughters can no longer walk to and from school alone, you would be less amazed. Migrants are not, ipso fact, angels.
27
More sanctimonious NIMBYism from people who live in areas far from hundreds of thousands of migrants.
9
Where are their own women?
4
It's interesting that Seattle has been trying to solve the problem of a homeless encampment also named "the Jungle". There are significant differences and similarities. The Seattle Jungle is plagued by drug addiction and hopelessness. Many of the men living there are migrants from other states who moved hoping for jobs and opportunities, only to be disappointed. The perception of many is that they are here only for the handouts.
The situation in France is what I see as reverse-colonization. It is important that we not forget the root cause of it being Europe's empire building and colonization of Africa and Asia. A lot of commenters are mistaken when they say these men should stay in their home countries and tough it out there. The French and English came to their houses first. The Europeans also migrated for economic opportunity. All of the wealth of Europe was imported from abroad: the Americas, Africa and Asia. From the beginning, Europeans have been paranoid that their victims would retaliate, even to the point of massacring nursing babies in the imagined fear that they would have to face the consequences for their abuses. Now they are afraid of immigrants because they know what they did when they were the immigrants. Fear has a way of condemning us to forget and repeat history.
The situation in France is what I see as reverse-colonization. It is important that we not forget the root cause of it being Europe's empire building and colonization of Africa and Asia. A lot of commenters are mistaken when they say these men should stay in their home countries and tough it out there. The French and English came to their houses first. The Europeans also migrated for economic opportunity. All of the wealth of Europe was imported from abroad: the Americas, Africa and Asia. From the beginning, Europeans have been paranoid that their victims would retaliate, even to the point of massacring nursing babies in the imagined fear that they would have to face the consequences for their abuses. Now they are afraid of immigrants because they know what they did when they were the immigrants. Fear has a way of condemning us to forget and repeat history.
3
Whatever happened in the past, western countries cannot absorb the millions of third-world, uneducated, religious fanatics, economic refugees, or terrorists. Migration would come to a standstill if all western countries absolutely rejected them AND refused to give them one thin dime of assistance. Perhaps they would return to their country of origin and fight to save their countries the way that western countries have done.
13
Nigeria and Angola and other African nations make billions of dollars from oil and are much more rich in resources than many, if not most, European nations.
2
What will happen to the migrants currently en route to Calais? Is there any plan for "processing" and housing them? And what is the long term plan for the dozens of dispersed migrant centers? Breaking up the Calais jungle is an essential first step, and will help keep the problem from growing as news gets back to Eritrea et al, but what happens now? Will France be like Greece, with thousands of disgruntled migrants angry at being "trapped", e.g. housed, fed, clothed, etc, short of their desired destinations? Perhaps this move is politically expedient in changing a large, highly visible problem into a number of small, less visible problems. At least as long as these young men are sequestered they will not be creating multitudes of refugee babies.
9
A safe country is any in Europe. They should not be able to pick and choose their destination (they all want to go to Britain for the gravy train of benefits).
1
I'm french and i feel sometimes confused about the situation.
I want France to be able to welcome and protect the migrants who are running away from dangerous countries where they feel threatened, after all that kind of things could happen to our own countries one day.
But i'm also worried about the consequences on our country.
These persons need to understand that if they really want to live in our country and have a better life then they also have to follow our rules, respect our values and laws.
I'm all for them keeping their cultures alive (no one should drop his history) but they also have to understand that if they stay in France then they become French and they can't just ignore or totally disrespect our culture.
What i'm worried about is the deep gap between our way to think when it comes to things like the place of the women in the society, the freedom of expression or the education of the children for example.
We need to find a way to welcome them while making it clear that France and the French are not the ones who have to drop their culture and laws to please them.
I sincerely hope that everything will go well for everyone even though it seems a little bit naive nowadays.
I want France to be able to welcome and protect the migrants who are running away from dangerous countries where they feel threatened, after all that kind of things could happen to our own countries one day.
But i'm also worried about the consequences on our country.
These persons need to understand that if they really want to live in our country and have a better life then they also have to follow our rules, respect our values and laws.
I'm all for them keeping their cultures alive (no one should drop his history) but they also have to understand that if they stay in France then they become French and they can't just ignore or totally disrespect our culture.
What i'm worried about is the deep gap between our way to think when it comes to things like the place of the women in the society, the freedom of expression or the education of the children for example.
We need to find a way to welcome them while making it clear that France and the French are not the ones who have to drop their culture and laws to please them.
I sincerely hope that everything will go well for everyone even though it seems a little bit naive nowadays.
43
Back in the 18th century when a channel tunnel was proposed, many British warned that the end result would be an invasion of the British Isles by a French army. Had the Brits been more circumspect, or had they been serious about holding closely to their empire,(25% of the world), this would simply not be a problem for either side of the Channel Tunnel.
Unfortunately, this is the end result of allowing greed and pursuit of immediate profit to take over day to day activities and blind the politicians about possibilities of the future.
If the Chunnel did not have a city of Muslims it would be a city of Africans or Asians or South Americans and on and on-The
problem is that no Northern hemisphere nations are really ready , willing or able to take over a growing world crisis created by too many people, all now with hand held telephones and capable of accessing banks and other supplies of money and capable of purchasing both papers and travel to go anywhere they please. Almost all the Anglophone nations now have "head of the line" laws which allow the wealthy to simply buy residence in their nations for a predetermined fee. The old "Illegals have to learn to 'wait their turn' is totally hollow now as wealthy criminals or looters from CHina simply buy their way into the US where they then set themselves up to import their families. These awful purchased ticket immigrants make a total mockery out of the idea of leagal vs illegal immigration.
Unfortunately, this is the end result of allowing greed and pursuit of immediate profit to take over day to day activities and blind the politicians about possibilities of the future.
If the Chunnel did not have a city of Muslims it would be a city of Africans or Asians or South Americans and on and on-The
problem is that no Northern hemisphere nations are really ready , willing or able to take over a growing world crisis created by too many people, all now with hand held telephones and capable of accessing banks and other supplies of money and capable of purchasing both papers and travel to go anywhere they please. Almost all the Anglophone nations now have "head of the line" laws which allow the wealthy to simply buy residence in their nations for a predetermined fee. The old "Illegals have to learn to 'wait their turn' is totally hollow now as wealthy criminals or looters from CHina simply buy their way into the US where they then set themselves up to import their families. These awful purchased ticket immigrants make a total mockery out of the idea of leagal vs illegal immigration.
7
Correct. Migrants who leave their dysfunctional countries for western democracies should be taught pretty much on arrival that they have arrived in a country where women and men, boys and girls have the same worth. That women and men have the same rights, responsibilities and freedom. They have to be taught, that in our culture people are individuals and can choose for themselves how they want to live. And, especiallly true for Europe, that religion is a private matter and that you do not have to show it by your attire in public. If this is too much to take, we should help them to move somewhere closer to their culture. It cannot be that migrants pick the cherries they like while disrespecting the values of the welcoming country.
24
Naive. They don't want you, they want England.
2
So all these people get homes, and the kids get to go the Britain, all because they created a squalid jungle.
I'm fine with that, but then I think of all the homeless jungles. In the United States, tens of thousands of homeless American citizens live in jungles under overpasses and highways. Look at Seattle as an example. Amazon and the big tech companies push up the rents, but don't give a crap about all the people living in squalid camps that have existed since the 1990s.
This is the exact reason that people resent these economic migrants. They get services like homes and relocation, while citizens are allowed to live in cardboard boxes with no help. Why don't we have sponsors for homeless people, why don't we dismantle the Seattle jungle and give all those people houses? Why do people only get services if they illegally enter a country and then ruin part of it in their attempts to leave that country?
I'm fine with that, but then I think of all the homeless jungles. In the United States, tens of thousands of homeless American citizens live in jungles under overpasses and highways. Look at Seattle as an example. Amazon and the big tech companies push up the rents, but don't give a crap about all the people living in squalid camps that have existed since the 1990s.
This is the exact reason that people resent these economic migrants. They get services like homes and relocation, while citizens are allowed to live in cardboard boxes with no help. Why don't we have sponsors for homeless people, why don't we dismantle the Seattle jungle and give all those people houses? Why do people only get services if they illegally enter a country and then ruin part of it in their attempts to leave that country?
54
It is far more satisfying if your the typical do-gooder if u help sponsor someone from a completely foreign culture and country than to just take care of the needs of people who live here now. It's the equivalent of pulling someone from a burning car as opposed to helping someone eat a healthy diet when they need to loose wt. one is like being a rock star, while the other is like being a faceless health care worker.
11
I live about 100 miles, as the crow flies, southwest of Seattle, and I used to go to Seattle often to shop, attend concerts, visit museums, and just to walk around the beautiful city to take photographs and enjoy the vibrancy of places like Pike Place Market. My husband and I stopped going to Seattle unless it's for medical appointments because the city is filled with homeless, gangs, immigrants who do not speak English, and generally unsavory people who "occupy" the streets. The city is unsafe, period.
11
Perception and reality are 2 different things. Your "quality of life" experience in visiting Seattle may well be worse. But the statistical reality is that crime rates in Seattle for the last few years have been historically low and holding steady.
Seeing all the homelessness in the streets is indeed disturbing. But in fact, you are in less danger, visiting Seattle now, then you would have been 5-10 years back.
The FBI website offers good information on crime rates. I refer you to the link below.
https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/seattle/news/press-releases...
Seeing all the homelessness in the streets is indeed disturbing. But in fact, you are in less danger, visiting Seattle now, then you would have been 5-10 years back.
The FBI website offers good information on crime rates. I refer you to the link below.
https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/seattle/news/press-releases...
I don't pretend to have the answers to this complex problem, but I do have empathy. The migrants are human beings. They are not disposable. The harshness and anger directed at them is unwarranted. Most may eventually be turned away and sent back to their home countries, but until that time they deserve to be treated with respect. France had little regard for its Jews in WWII and treated them like sub-humans. Now the country is doing it again, just substituting a different population.
9
Apparently you are not familiar with their actions. They set tires on fire to try and stop the trucks, they throw rocks at vehicle drivers, some have weapons and they threaten driver etc. I fail to see how anyone can have sympathy for what has turned into a criminal gang.
36
French antisemitism is a huge part of their history and and still exists.
5
In what way does this apply to migrants in Calais? I doubt that even one of the is a Jew.
I think it'd be a lot easier to be sympathetic if these migrants didn't zig-zag across Europe. Any claims of seeking safety or asylum ended when they reached their first European country. Greece or Italy may not be the most fantastic places on the planet, but they're obviously not places where anyone can legitimately claim to be in fear for their lives. From that point on, any further movement was purely for economic benefits, and they lost any moral justification they had left for crossing borders without permission.
36
Ahem, BTW, Italy IS one of the most fantastic places on the planet.
15
Ha, yes, both Italy and Greece are stunningly beautiful places. I think I should have been more specific about "fantastic": to many migrants, the most fantastic countries are the ones with the best handouts.
25
From where I stand, Italy and Greece are pretty desirable places to live.
10
"Hard cases make bad law" is an adage or legal maxim. The original meaning of the phrase concerned cases in which the law had a hard impact on some person whose situation aroused sympathy. Analogous to the immigration situation confronting the EU.
3
I think that what is often missing from conversation on refugees is discussion on legal framework regulating refugees acceptance and status. The major convention in that area was adopted in 1951, soon after the end of WWII with millions of displaced people, countries with greatly reduced population, etc. But realities of people movement have greatly changed since then. Thousands are able to travel now from one country to another, information about opportunities in another country (even if it is incorrect) can be spread momentarily . So, documents adopted by states in 1951 could not have possibly contemplated flows of people it should deal with in 2016. And then, who could have thought in 1951 that beginning of XXI century will be marked by religious conflicts? Finally, it is easy to argue for most economic refugees that they are persecuted for reasons of race, religion or their social group. Doesn't United States have long-standing economic disparities between races?
So, we are trying to solve new problems with old approaches. No wonder we fail.
So, we are trying to solve new problems with old approaches. No wonder we fail.
6
many comments, even though meant well, are mostly false. No, colonialism and the enviromental damage are not the reason of this migration. The fact of the matter is that there is overpopulation in Sub-Sahara and Muslim countries. The fact that they also happen to be non-white and Muslim is undeniable. However, even though there was colonialism and the terribly wrong Iraq invasion, is only a small reason for the migration. Let's not forget that colonialism wasn't all bad. Much disease and barbarous customs were eradicated or lessened. The reason that there is overpopulation is only because of advancements by Western science. Another words, billions of lives have been saved and also made livable, by various Western charities, such as the Bill gates Foundation, the Clinton foundation, plus so many others. The result of all those advancements are clear to see. Overpopulation and the subsequent migration to the West. The only remedy to this is turning back all migrants, when they are intercepted at sea. Word would get around and stop that avenue, of enriching smugglers and causing so many drownings, as was suggested recently, on an OP-ED on the NYT. Also, western societies should teach population control, dispell Muslim fanaticism that insists on having multiple children and provide aid for infrastructure development and farming.
Migration has to stop, before Western societies become the mirror image of the third world. Which would not benefit anyone
Migration has to stop, before Western societies become the mirror image of the third world. Which would not benefit anyone
34
Thank you. I never see this pointed out. Of course, the answer isn't stopping vaccination, it is birth control. Short sighted do-gooders...
6
What bothers me about allowing so many of these particular migrants in to Europe or the US is their cultural history. They come from societies and countries that are not only brutal dictatorships, but have no "others", and indeed learn to vilify others to a degree we just have not seen in the West recently. Say what you want about Mexican immigration or anyone from Asia or India, those counties and cultures have their problems, huge problems, but they pale in comparison to the backwardness and institutional paranoia and hate expounded these largely muslim countries. After a while, groups like this can reach a critical mass where they feel free to expound this same virulent hatred and intolerance, just see Britain and the Netherlands and the problems their Muslim populations cause along these lines. Why should I, a descendant of immigrants who embraced American culture and freedom and tolerance, want to see large groups of people move in who do not share those same values and indeed do not like who I am and what I stand for, why should I have to worry about that or having my own political or social interests diluted in an attempt to be politically correct. No thanks, there are plenty of wide one muslim lands they can be welcomed into and feel much more comfortable in.
51
The migrants cannot live, in peace, with people they share a language, culture and religion with.
There is no way they will be able to live in peace in a society as alien to them as that of Europe.
The experiment of mass movements of people needs to end- it is going to destroy liberalism in the West.
And remember that climate change is coming. Where we see a million today we will see ten million in the coming years. We are importing low emitters into the highest emitting economies in the world- and population continues to grow.
In 34 short years there will be another 2-3 billion people.
Where will they go? How can we help them all? Maybe they need to help themselves and have fewer children.
There is no way they will be able to live in peace in a society as alien to them as that of Europe.
The experiment of mass movements of people needs to end- it is going to destroy liberalism in the West.
And remember that climate change is coming. Where we see a million today we will see ten million in the coming years. We are importing low emitters into the highest emitting economies in the world- and population continues to grow.
In 34 short years there will be another 2-3 billion people.
Where will they go? How can we help them all? Maybe they need to help themselves and have fewer children.
48
It is good that France is finally clearing up the Jungle Mess. I am shocked that they let it exist for so many years. It was the same thing with Sangatte. Lets hope that the French wont let another refugee slum start up again.
I expect many of them will get deported by France. But at least they will no longer menace the traffic in and out of road and tunnel. They have to stop this so another one does not start up.
I expect many of them will get deported by France. But at least they will no longer menace the traffic in and out of road and tunnel. They have to stop this so another one does not start up.
19
We understand that these folks need to get away from the turmoil in the own countries but why inflict these incompatible people upon France and Europe?
Why not establish encampments in their own region, Saudi Arabia, Oman, the Emirates or a host of other such places where they can observe their customs and dietary needs and worship as they please.
Why not establish encampments in their own region, Saudi Arabia, Oman, the Emirates or a host of other such places where they can observe their customs and dietary needs and worship as they please.
59
I volunteer in my community with refugees from the areas mentioned in the Calais article. So many of them struggle because our culture is so different from theirs. Mike from NYC makes a good point about keeping the refugees in their areas where they already live. The culture and religion so different from the West. If there are areas they can stay, work, worship in their own way the world would be better off. I don't think the refugees understand how different Western culture is until they move to the West. Why don't more Middle Eastern countries accept more refugees? What about Japan, China and Russia? Because as much as people complain about the West, the Western cultures are less corrupt, more peaceful and more open.
3
Ugh. Leave Japan out of this mess. Can we please keep at least one excellent culture intact?
1
I wonder if globalization of the economy has also lead to some kind of globalization of attitudes. The increase in illegal immigrants in the US happened over a relatively short period of time.
In 1990, there were 3.5 illegal immigrants here. By 2008, there were 12.2 million (that number has now declined to 11.4).
I wonder if overall acceptance of this, which enabled it to occur, was some kind of inspiration for the millions who've made their way to Europe, such as those at the jungle camp at Calais.
In 1990, there were 3.5 illegal immigrants here. By 2008, there were 12.2 million (that number has now declined to 11.4).
I wonder if overall acceptance of this, which enabled it to occur, was some kind of inspiration for the millions who've made their way to Europe, such as those at the jungle camp at Calais.
15
Most if not all of these men come from places where women have no rights and certainly no reproductive rights. Family sizes are large. You aren't looking at just one man you are looking at all of his family members and children. In California two thirds of the babies born are born to Hispanic mothers a large number of which are teenage girls. The estimates are that it takes at least a generation to change a group's attitude toward reproduction and family size. Do the math.
53
Starting in 1880s, the west began the excessively brutal colonization of africa and the whole of the moslem world for oil, land, workers, other resources which the white christian empire simply regarded as its superiority's haha 'god-given right,' 'manifest destiny.'
Tens of millions there have perished due the west. How many heartlanders ever realized that saddam hussein was hired as an assassin by CIA in 1959. In 1965 State installed him in power, armed him to the teeth, trained his secret police in torture and terror at the 'school of the americas' @ ft benning, georgia. He was feted at gala events by reagan, pentagon, dimgops in 1981-2...then dumped and pronounced the posterboy for the 'war of terror' immediately following the iran-iraq war. After all, if no other endless lying war could be found to replace the endless cold war as the soviet was collapsing, 'peace dividend,' reduced military budgets? Never.
Since then, US has warred on pakistan, afghan, iraq, syria, somalia, yemen, libya, algeria. And backed the UAE with vast populatin control weapons to put down the pro-democracy people...and backs israel with billions in death-tools to use on palestinians...and clusterbombs, jets, to crush yemen's people.
The by far most warring of empires, is there anywhere we have NOT committed genocide, bombed civilians?
So our now being invaded is no more than karmic justice...
Tens of millions there have perished due the west. How many heartlanders ever realized that saddam hussein was hired as an assassin by CIA in 1959. In 1965 State installed him in power, armed him to the teeth, trained his secret police in torture and terror at the 'school of the americas' @ ft benning, georgia. He was feted at gala events by reagan, pentagon, dimgops in 1981-2...then dumped and pronounced the posterboy for the 'war of terror' immediately following the iran-iraq war. After all, if no other endless lying war could be found to replace the endless cold war as the soviet was collapsing, 'peace dividend,' reduced military budgets? Never.
Since then, US has warred on pakistan, afghan, iraq, syria, somalia, yemen, libya, algeria. And backed the UAE with vast populatin control weapons to put down the pro-democracy people...and backs israel with billions in death-tools to use on palestinians...and clusterbombs, jets, to crush yemen's people.
The by far most warring of empires, is there anywhere we have NOT committed genocide, bombed civilians?
So our now being invaded is no more than karmic justice...
3
All of North Africa, vast swaths of the ME and southern Europe were colonized by warring-slaving Muslim Arabs prior to the European projects. The Eastern slave trade was greater than the western slave trade that followed that. Your selective version of history is very convenient for blaming others isn't it? You want to talk about Karma? Let's talk the Muslim sack of India.
40
Who were the protesters and why were they protesting? The video shows a pretty serious conflict between protesters and police but the article only briefly mentions that authorities were "expecting some resistance from activist groups, if not from the migrants themselves".
10
Having visited Afghanistan on many recent occasions it is ridicules that so many have left that country and are trying to make a living in the EU or UK. Certainly Afghanistan has its security problems but by the same token all over that country, be it in Kabul, Herat, Kandahar, Mazar-i-Sharif, etc. you will see thousands of people in good shape doing their work or spending time with family. No need for any of them to try to make a living some place else.
34
Unless they're female.
8
The females are staying back
Some of my friends just came back from France and they say they don't recognize this country anymore. Especially the theft.... their passports and valuables were stolen, another had a break in to the car. The Police seems to be hopeless because it happens a lot, and they don't know how to deal with it. It's not French people, they don't know their address to catch them etc..
I can see why tourism is suffering in France. I hope they will get their act together, expel the bad people and preserve their culture.
I can see why tourism is suffering in France. I hope they will get their act together, expel the bad people and preserve their culture.
74
Well put.....it would seem to me that these masses of people are largely young, male and Muslim. This is the first year I did not spend time in France.
29
Much of the media keeps silent on the other side of the migrant influx: the brawls in reception centers, the levels of violence in places like Malmo, Sweden, higher rates of sexual assault. The Milan train station was the site of a huge migrant brawl last week, and the TIMES only reported on the situation in Stockholm Central Train Station when white men in masks threatened the thugs controlling the station at night and terrorizing women. The UK saw 6,000 cases of FGM in its hospitals last year, 18 cases carried out ON UK soil-not one arrest. Berlin has one of the most active and growing Salafist movements in Europe, watched closely by German intelligence. Many public spaces like parks are rapidly deteriorating. The TIMES does not print photos of migrants defecating and drinking in Green Park, London. Norwegians, taught to revere their environment from childhood, are horrified at the disrespect shown it by migrants-so they are turning right, too. A Lutheran bishop suggests removing crosses from church-tops to avoid offending, a council member in northern England is afraid to call a Christmas tree, a Christmas tree, while Merkel assures her citizens that Only, citizens throughout Europe can see in their streets that Merkel is either delusional or lying.
A culture that refuses to defend itself is ripe for replacement, as Europeans now see. Their governments are a day late and a dollar short.
A culture that refuses to defend itself is ripe for replacement, as Europeans now see. Their governments are a day late and a dollar short.
15
Elizabeth, big fan here. I often learn more from you, and other commenters like you, than from the articles! You report what the MSM censors and provide a valuable service to your fellow subscribers.
1
I wonder if the occupants of the 'jungle' (interesting title!, full of subhuman allusions!) had been had been white European migrants, if they would have been treated with such contempt and indifference. Having experienced french racism myself (I'm Afro-American), it comes as no surprise that France has drawn so much negativity and anger from Muslims. Maybe someday folks around the world will get the idea that treating people as less than human has consequences that don't disappear overnight, and that people reciprocate for the wrongs that they feel have been done to them.
12
I agree with you. The migrants are treating the people of their host countries as less than human. And it is wrong.
The people of France as tired of being treated like servants. Of being told that they have an obligation to meet the needs of strangers- strangers whose first act in France was to break it laws. Their second act was to trash a part of the country.
Yes- it is wrong to treat people as less than human. To show up at their door- uninvited- with your entire family in tow and your hand out. Then to accuse your 'hosts' as inhumane for not putting your interests ahead of their own.
The people of France as tired of being treated like servants. Of being told that they have an obligation to meet the needs of strangers- strangers whose first act in France was to break it laws. Their second act was to trash a part of the country.
Yes- it is wrong to treat people as less than human. To show up at their door- uninvited- with your entire family in tow and your hand out. Then to accuse your 'hosts' as inhumane for not putting your interests ahead of their own.
24
In America we treat our own homeless citizens like garbage, while the Syrian refugees get a year of free services in a sponsors home.
I think if the jungle was filled with homeless citizens of France, no one would care. At least in America that is how it is. Just look at Seattle and you will find a 25 year old jungle filled with U.S. citizens that NO ONE cares about.
I think if the jungle was filled with homeless citizens of France, no one would care. At least in America that is how it is. Just look at Seattle and you will find a 25 year old jungle filled with U.S. citizens that NO ONE cares about.
19
Please keep in mind that the white European migrants - some of whom were my ancestors - came to the United States LEGALLY and if one i was not dotted or one t not crossed, they were put on a boat and sent back.
16
Actually that Migrant Camp didn't look that bad (by EU standards). Go camping in Europe during summer vacation and you will observe same density of people, same wetness, everybody constantly fighting over where to pitch their tent, standing in line for toilet use, women being harassed, you name it. Same thing really.
7
If they were white, Christian, and Western, many of the commenters here would be sympathetic to the nth degree, instead of whining about over-population, the myth of not wanting to acculturate, etc.
If only we had been concerned about the sovereignty of other nations back in '03 when we bombed Iraq for no good reason.
Funny how that works.
If only we had been concerned about the sovereignty of other nations back in '03 when we bombed Iraq for no good reason.
Funny how that works.
5
These are not people from Iraq or Syria. They are economic migrants, seeking better economic opportunities. They are from Africa. What exactly does bombing Iraq in '03 have to do with this story?
25
No if they were Eastern European we would not. A good example is Chechnya.
Glad they are Russia's.
Glad they are Russia's.
15
Tell that to the tens of thousands of homeless American citizens that NO one cares about. I find it sad that we just assume that the citizens of a country wouldn't better services, when to me they do not. I mean, the Red Cross was handing out food and cell phone cards to the migrants in Calais. In Seattle, they don't even get free cardboard boxes.
21
Most of the comments below are appalling in their ignorance and shortsightedness. Is anyone asking why these migrants choose to leave their countries and suffer such an ordeal?
We in the so-called First World are primarily responsible for the refugee crisis, a result of enduring neo-colonialism, war, and climate change.
Neo-colonialism and ill-conceived aid mostly perpetuate a relationship of dependency without addressing the causes of poverty.
As for war, just ask what ultimately motivates our foreign policy...
Finally, as we have been failing for twenty years to address climate change in a meaningful way (we need to radically change our way of life and our relationship to the planet), the refugee crisis we are experiencing today is nothing compared to what is to come.
So get ready, people, and bury your heads deeper in the sand, of which there will be no shortage.
We in the so-called First World are primarily responsible for the refugee crisis, a result of enduring neo-colonialism, war, and climate change.
Neo-colonialism and ill-conceived aid mostly perpetuate a relationship of dependency without addressing the causes of poverty.
As for war, just ask what ultimately motivates our foreign policy...
Finally, as we have been failing for twenty years to address climate change in a meaningful way (we need to radically change our way of life and our relationship to the planet), the refugee crisis we are experiencing today is nothing compared to what is to come.
So get ready, people, and bury your heads deeper in the sand, of which there will be no shortage.
26
What is short-sighted is having children you cannot afford and then illegally entering another country and forcing the people, there, to pay for your own choices.
36
Thank you, jw! The majority of these comments were disgusting for their shortsightedness and utter lack of compassion. They saddened me. Many times, it's clear when reading the comments section of the NYT that I'm reading comments by actual NYT readers. With other stories, such as this one and others about the refugee crisis or immigration, the comments and the accompanying vitriol read like those posted on Fox News, yahoo, Breitbart, etc. Sad!
2
Nonsense. The Western world is not responsible for these nations collapsing under their own antiquated, misogynistic religion. Their tyrants are a product of their culture too. These nations mired themselves in fundamentalist sectarian war all on their own, you want to blame Western nations because of some weird self-hate, but none of what they are today is our fault.
19
The uncomfortable reality that so many people gloss over when giving their excuses for expelling migrants and refugees is that our own countries are already at the brink, barely able to take care of their own citizens. Reading this article, I'm struck by how similar it reads to articles about cities all over the Western world destroying homeless encampments and driving away the homeless, all with pretty much the same excuses and actions given in this article. Sure, the homeless don't get deported, since they're citizens - but these people who have simply fallen through the economic cracks are essentially expelled from the area in which they live because it's easier to get rid of them than to help them, even though they're citizens of that country and entitled to their rights and responsibilities as such. And France in particular is notorious for its harsh actions against Roma camps, demolishing them and expelling the residents in much the same way. We can't even solve poverty, homelessness, and unemployment in our own countries; driving out people who face even worse in their own countries is nothing but an excuse to make us feel better about it and give us someone to blame.
17
95% of these people are economic migrants. The sooner Europe begins to deport them home, the sooner the message will be received and the migrants will stop coming. All foreign aid to the 3rd world needs to have a family planning and birth control component, with rewards for meeting targeted stable populations.
59
What people are unwilling to accept is that we have an extreme amount of overpopulation in the world. Given the climate and other limited resources of countries such as Africa and much of the ME, this is creating a huge problem. The hordes of young males such as in this camp in Calais are a symptom of this. Unless/until these countries work to get their population growth under control, remove dictators who hog the wealth and embrace education and job creation, this is just the tip of the iceberg. An over-surplus of young makes with no future never bodes well for peace.
29
as a citizen of the united states, all i can say is: we are incredibly fortunate in our oceans -- and our neighbors.
32
Given the context, I am sure this is a temporary measure and these people will be quietly allowed to return to Calais after the election is over.
9
As much as I can empathize with their frustration, it is unreasonable to expect Europe(or the US) to be able to take in all who wish to come here. It's not as if they are fleeing a holocaust for the most part,. Many are looking for better economic opportunity. Many do indeed suffer from ongoing strife in their homelands, but again, just how is Europe going to take in all who wish to flee Africa or the ME? And if Europe becomes overwhelmed and overburdened, won't the economic and tribal issues just reestablish themselves in Europe?
It seems to me that the answer has to be that the "migrants" need to return to their homelands and work to build the economy and peaceful co-existence where they live. Not simple I know, but I don't see any other realistic way to handle the problem.
It seems to me that the answer has to be that the "migrants" need to return to their homelands and work to build the economy and peaceful co-existence where they live. Not simple I know, but I don't see any other realistic way to handle the problem.
74
And who started the wars in North Africa and the Middle East that sent these refugees to Europe, to Canada and, with Hillary, to the U.S.? It is about time to wake up from our IPhones and become activist.
Beyond the damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation the French government is forced to deal with (admirably, in my opinion), lies a sad irony.
The reason the French are forced to deal with it in the first place is that Her Majesty's government has categorically refused to even consider taking in any of these migrants, preferring to leave them stuck in Calais thereby offloading humanitarian responsibilities to the French.
This is only possible because Britain opted out of the Schengen free-travel zone and operates its own full border control.
And there's the irony: these migrants, exactly the kind of people the Brexit "leave" voters were so desperate to keep out, were already being kept out long before those voters decided to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
The reason the French are forced to deal with it in the first place is that Her Majesty's government has categorically refused to even consider taking in any of these migrants, preferring to leave them stuck in Calais thereby offloading humanitarian responsibilities to the French.
This is only possible because Britain opted out of the Schengen free-travel zone and operates its own full border control.
And there's the irony: these migrants, exactly the kind of people the Brexit "leave" voters were so desperate to keep out, were already being kept out long before those voters decided to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
11
It seems that Britons had an early awakening and so Brexit happened. The British Empire sent many to England from their colonies and the government benefits became well known. Now France has a similar problem though the migrants are more heterogeneous. It will be interesting to see how the Angela Merkel experiment in Germany works out. Strange that in our own country immigrants get more attention than citizens needing help.
6
Britain is not remotely obligated to take in people who insist they have some God-given right to get in. And this isn't the first time France has had to do this: cf. the Sangatte camp in the early 2000s. Admirably? The French learned nothing from the Sangatte experience. Calais is French soil. The French should have been processing them and deporting the economic migrants. The migrants are stuck in Calais because 1) they chose to come there, and 2) they refused to file for asylum in the manifestly safe country they landed in.
Denmark has also opted out of Schengen. And you know what? It is moving swiftly to reduce the number of migrants it is taking in, too. And it has been quite successful: slashing benefits, making family reunification far more difficult, and holding up the naturalization process interminably. Result has been a huge reduction of asylum claims. Denmark this year had to issue a ban on Muslim hate preachers coming - the left, of course, wrung its hands. Denmark is no more throwing the baby out with the bathwater than Britain did. The EU couldn't even get its trade deal with Canada on, dissatisfaction with the bloc is rising rapidly, and its massive failures to handle the migrant crisis, including that of France, has given the alt-right early Christmas gifts that it could only have dreamt of.
Those migrants got stuck in Calais because they refused to file for asylum in France. Now they will do so or get deported. Calais is French soil, not English soil.
Denmark has also opted out of Schengen. And you know what? It is moving swiftly to reduce the number of migrants it is taking in, too. And it has been quite successful: slashing benefits, making family reunification far more difficult, and holding up the naturalization process interminably. Result has been a huge reduction of asylum claims. Denmark this year had to issue a ban on Muslim hate preachers coming - the left, of course, wrung its hands. Denmark is no more throwing the baby out with the bathwater than Britain did. The EU couldn't even get its trade deal with Canada on, dissatisfaction with the bloc is rising rapidly, and its massive failures to handle the migrant crisis, including that of France, has given the alt-right early Christmas gifts that it could only have dreamt of.
Those migrants got stuck in Calais because they refused to file for asylum in France. Now they will do so or get deported. Calais is French soil, not English soil.
7
And your point is?
The British are proving themselves smarter than the rest of Europe. They control their money, immigration, their budget and crimes.
Every country has a right and duty to do so.
The British are proving themselves smarter than the rest of Europe. They control their money, immigration, their budget and crimes.
Every country has a right and duty to do so.
I am glad something has finally been done about Calais, it took entirely too long. I am also hopeful that migrants who qualify for asylum, but don't have family connections in the UK, realize that a life can be built in France, or elsewhere, that would be equal to any they dreamed of having in the UK. I don't understand fully the obsession with the UK over other EU countries, so hopefully through interviews, settled migrants can give insight. I have heard the argument made that many of the migrants speak english so they feel it would be easier to succeed in England. Perhaps, fifty years ago knowing how to speak english would have been enough, but in the 21st century you also have to read and write it, or face several years of schooling learning. This fact means starting over in France or England, they are facing the same problems. This is double for those without family support and dealing with the shock of limited employment opportunities, getting accustomed to work and business regulations, and living costs in Europe. The West is a lot harder for new immigrants because the jobs once used to get started and move up in are being eliminated by technology.
17
Overpopulation is going to kill globalization. The desire to erect walls today, I think it needs to be stated, is not rooted so much in bigotry as was the case a century ago when more than 5 billion FEWER human beings lived on this little planet.
No, today the desire to erect walls is rooted in a desire to avoid becoming inundated. Europe is not a sparsely populated continent. It cannot absorb tens of millions or even millions of migrants without there being huge, destabilizing consequences.
No, today the desire to erect walls is rooted in a desire to avoid becoming inundated. Europe is not a sparsely populated continent. It cannot absorb tens of millions or even millions of migrants without there being huge, destabilizing consequences.
89
One of my Hispanic students said, aloud in class, that he just doesn’t trust white people and never has. It was a loud, confident comment which he tried to ease with, “But I haven’t decided on you, Miss”. Of course, if I had said that about Hispanics, I wouldn’t be working. I tried to use it as one of those teachable moments but since it was during class time, there were other teachable items on the schedule and we moved on. I will work with him individually to ease distrust -- without pandering to his power play. That’s a dynamic that is there every day for those who work in public places with young people (though this guy IS in college).
To me, immigration issues now come with this conflict, a wide-spread resentment toward those who “have” and the assumption that once arrived, immigrants have a right to it, too. They don’t see the generational efforts that it took to get that house, that stability. I know students who get free apartments and even though they are fully provided for in their new country, they won’t identify themselves as American. So I am having a problem with these attitudes - the expectation of gifts, so to speak - and it impacts my ability to feel empathy for places like the Jungle. I feel sorry for any children there, but France did the right thing to break it up. It would just grow into a permanent slum over time, and that helps no one. No answers here, just trying to explain one reaction.
To me, immigration issues now come with this conflict, a wide-spread resentment toward those who “have” and the assumption that once arrived, immigrants have a right to it, too. They don’t see the generational efforts that it took to get that house, that stability. I know students who get free apartments and even though they are fully provided for in their new country, they won’t identify themselves as American. So I am having a problem with these attitudes - the expectation of gifts, so to speak - and it impacts my ability to feel empathy for places like the Jungle. I feel sorry for any children there, but France did the right thing to break it up. It would just grow into a permanent slum over time, and that helps no one. No answers here, just trying to explain one reaction.
163
Thank you for that powerful insight.
My mother's family worked hard to be a part of America after moving here from Wales in the late 1800's. It was the desire to be an American and, as you so eloquently put it, generational efforts that lead to the family's success.
My mother's family worked hard to be a part of America after moving here from Wales in the late 1800's. It was the desire to be an American and, as you so eloquently put it, generational efforts that lead to the family's success.
16
I completely agree. Excellent point and we'll written. I've been feeling that no one loves America anymore. No one believes in America. Everyone just believes in themselves. We are all so selfish today, regardless of your economic status.
3
Inheritance has no place in a discussion of human rights unless we intend to revive feudalism as a basis for domination. You have no special rights because your dead grandparents worked hard. Until American in particular begin to understand this, democracy is doomed.
The photo (for some reason) seems to show all men. Where are the women in their families and the children? While I can empathize with wanting to flee in protection of your life, these immigrants should be seeking ways to understand the situations in their homeland and if possible work with to get educated and return there to make things better. The whole idea that life will be better if I can get to Britian or stay in France is short sighted on both the parts of the immigrants and the countries accepting them.
30
The shear number of young males in the Middle East and Africa, out of work and with few or no prospects, is beyond staggering.
And with the advent of iPhones and ease of transportation, these men have the muscles and brains to seek opportunity in new lands, thousands of miles away.
The Jungle represented a modern day Exodus, and the camp provided a sense of community, common purpose and collaboration, just like many groups of people that fled poverty, oppression and disparities, before them.
In this case, it represented mostly men and some hardy women and their children, but it differed little from similar camps elsewhere, in and beyond Syrian, the Middle East and Africa.
Only a concerted effort of those that care, and willing to offer something better and more sustainable would now provide a relief and possible a mostly humanitarian resolution to this particular camp of refugees.
And with the advent of iPhones and ease of transportation, these men have the muscles and brains to seek opportunity in new lands, thousands of miles away.
The Jungle represented a modern day Exodus, and the camp provided a sense of community, common purpose and collaboration, just like many groups of people that fled poverty, oppression and disparities, before them.
In this case, it represented mostly men and some hardy women and their children, but it differed little from similar camps elsewhere, in and beyond Syrian, the Middle East and Africa.
Only a concerted effort of those that care, and willing to offer something better and more sustainable would now provide a relief and possible a mostly humanitarian resolution to this particular camp of refugees.
2
Think of the 49ers in our country, young men, mostly, willing to endure a long and arduous journey to find better prospects. Instead of denigrating the as "only" economic refugees, we need to remember that the majority of America bound immigrants arrived here for better a economic chance.
1
"And with the advent of iPhones and ease of transportation, these men have the muscles and brains to seek opportunity in new lands, thousands of miles away." So why can't these same modern enhancements be used by the men with "muscles and brains" in their own countries, especially if they are not from ISIS-inspired war zones?
6
So now they're willing to settle for France, now that the UK is out of reach? Not sure I would want such a migrant.
38
Misplaced compassion for illegal immigrants who have no plan or compulsion to assimilate into the French culture and economy leads to exactly what has happened there. France is in for a world of continuing hurt; they have been overrun by the dregs of Islam, with no plan to provide for them. Meanwhile the Muslims already living in France remain in insular communities and refuse to assimilate to the French culture. They prefer to listen to the shrill voices of their mullahs who preach hatred for all things western. This will not turn out well, to say the least.
92
At least 70 per cent of the inhabitants of the Calais camp are male economic migrants; see Le Figaro today for admission of that. The French government failed dismally: instead of speedy deportations of those whom the EU delicately refers to as it let the camp build. This is the second such camp the French have had to dismantle. They clearly learned nothing from their first such experience, the Sangatte Camp, also in the Calais area, where riots in 2000-2001 caused Sarkozy to order the camp dismantled. The name was a satirical reference to the term - gateless, porous.
Setting a precedent for gate-crashing Europe was never, ever going to result in anything but civil revolt, a further decline in distrust for left or centrist governments to do anything but whatever was easiest for them, incentivizing more migrants to give it a try, and a leg up for the far right. French villages are already balking at having migrant camps in their areas.
That governments failed for so long to respond to realities like these is the reason political cycles stay alive. Reports of the death of tribalism are always greatly exaggerated. Europeans know that if they do not pull up the drawbridge now, they will be overrun and Europe unrecognizable in half century. Its citizens do not want that. Their governments knew that, yet failed to head this off, costing the left dearly politically-that is why Hollande is belatedly, finally, closing the camp.
Setting a precedent for gate-crashing Europe was never, ever going to result in anything but civil revolt, a further decline in distrust for left or centrist governments to do anything but whatever was easiest for them, incentivizing more migrants to give it a try, and a leg up for the far right. French villages are already balking at having migrant camps in their areas.
That governments failed for so long to respond to realities like these is the reason political cycles stay alive. Reports of the death of tribalism are always greatly exaggerated. Europeans know that if they do not pull up the drawbridge now, they will be overrun and Europe unrecognizable in half century. Its citizens do not want that. Their governments knew that, yet failed to head this off, costing the left dearly politically-that is why Hollande is belatedly, finally, closing the camp.
34
Thanks for the light of reason amidst the politically correct nonsense that liberals find appealing because, like most of the liberal agenda, anything can be done if the government does it. Don't ask for individual responsibility or enlightened consensus, just ideological drifting enabled by the media in the cultures made with soft political underbellies.
7
"There are 7 billion people in the world, 5 billion of them poorer than the poorest country in Europe. Some day the Western world will realize that it cannot take them all in."
Someday, and someday soon, we will be more inundated than we can ever imagine. The world as we know it has changed, and will continue to change. We will see refugees of every sort--those from wars brought on by vicious, greedy and religiously insane men, those from poverty, exacerbated by those same men, those from famine, intensified by rapid climate change, evident to those of us minimally cognizant of the world around us.
No one in America or Europe, whether directly affected by climate change, will escape its consequences. As you reap, so shall you sow. That's called karma, and those are its results.
Someday, and someday soon, we will be more inundated than we can ever imagine. The world as we know it has changed, and will continue to change. We will see refugees of every sort--those from wars brought on by vicious, greedy and religiously insane men, those from poverty, exacerbated by those same men, those from famine, intensified by rapid climate change, evident to those of us minimally cognizant of the world around us.
No one in America or Europe, whether directly affected by climate change, will escape its consequences. As you reap, so shall you sow. That's called karma, and those are its results.
11
The West had a chance in the 1960s when "The Population Bomb" was de rigueur reading and the advent of the birth control pill opened the door to reproductive freedom. There could have been outreach to already overpopulated countries to put family planning within everyone’s reach. The world’s poor could have grown prosperous with Western help, given manageable population growth. But religious zealots ruined that chance. Even today, the Religious Right abhors contraception and fights its availability in the U.S. and elsewhere with all its considerable might. Yes, we brought this horror on ourselves. Now, what to do? First, we have to admit the truth about what we allowed to happen. Then, change course. In the meantime, we’ll have to spend a lot more to maintain civil society and the rule of law.
8
Impossible situation. The refugees here might be better off getting out of this horrid camp; it's hard to know what awaits them.
The comments regarding addressing problems in their countries of origin are, in theory, spot on. The problem is, how do we accomplish that idealist dream? Take over Syria and a large swath of Africa?
As always in history, it's hard to know where all this is headed, because under current situations in the world, these problematic movements of populations aren't going away, and could more likely increase.
Secular democracies are facing great change. Wish I had the answer. Suggesting we can turn back boats, or force contraception in countries where humanitarian assistance is already stretched to the breaking point - or in other cases, where we can't even enter - are not even close to realistic.
The comments regarding addressing problems in their countries of origin are, in theory, spot on. The problem is, how do we accomplish that idealist dream? Take over Syria and a large swath of Africa?
As always in history, it's hard to know where all this is headed, because under current situations in the world, these problematic movements of populations aren't going away, and could more likely increase.
Secular democracies are facing great change. Wish I had the answer. Suggesting we can turn back boats, or force contraception in countries where humanitarian assistance is already stretched to the breaking point - or in other cases, where we can't even enter - are not even close to realistic.
6
Always with these migrant populations I worry that the majority of people are single, young men. What happens to the women, children, and elderly that they abandon back home? How will their countries ever rebuild if all the able-bodied men are gone?
35
Reasonable question, small scale impact seems to show women rebuild and establish community much better than men, because they're not constantly trying to kill each other.
4
Just looking at this picture and at others that I have seen, most of these migrants are from sub-Saharan Africa, not from the war zone in Syria. The problems in Sub-Saharan Africa are purely economic. The wars of the 1990's have ended. There is no war in Eritrea, or northern Sudan or Gambia or Nigeria, but there is poverty and plenty of it.
Europe has to wake up and put an end to this migration or else, they'll be swamped -- the population of these African countries keeps swelling & with no real production, there is simply not enough employment for the millions and millions that are there today and that continue to be born.
Look at these Numbers: Ethiopia has 90 million people; Nigeria approaching 173 million; Tanzania has 60 million; Kenya 47 million. These are staggering numbers for countries with literally no production. Europe must pass a law like Australia - say no refugee status and immediate deportation for anyone who crosses the sea to get to their shores. Australia did this and put an end to their immigration problem.
Young Africans are going to have to confront the reality of their own countries and of they kinds of people they are voting in. These countries are largely ruled by corrupt thugs and warlords and until young Africans wake up and start participating in their own countries success and stop either voting in or allowing these thugs to ruin their chance at an economic future, they will continue to languish in poverty.
Europe has to wake up and put an end to this migration or else, they'll be swamped -- the population of these African countries keeps swelling & with no real production, there is simply not enough employment for the millions and millions that are there today and that continue to be born.
Look at these Numbers: Ethiopia has 90 million people; Nigeria approaching 173 million; Tanzania has 60 million; Kenya 47 million. These are staggering numbers for countries with literally no production. Europe must pass a law like Australia - say no refugee status and immediate deportation for anyone who crosses the sea to get to their shores. Australia did this and put an end to their immigration problem.
Young Africans are going to have to confront the reality of their own countries and of they kinds of people they are voting in. These countries are largely ruled by corrupt thugs and warlords and until young Africans wake up and start participating in their own countries success and stop either voting in or allowing these thugs to ruin their chance at an economic future, they will continue to languish in poverty.
73
There may not be war, but there is famine. Why did the Irish come to North American?
1
Coming soon to a town near you. South Texas is already full of these.
19
south tx is full of illegal moslem refugees ?
pls, details
1
I honestly don't understand how it is that anyone thinks they have a perceived "right" to settle in another country of their choosing. It's as if these economic migrants believe that the citizens of the U.K. should have no say whatsoever in the matter. To my understanding, the people of the U.K. have already given a resolute 'no" to most these folks. And yet they continue to attempt to illegaly enter into the U.K. under the cover of darkness. Is France not good enough for them? The last I checked, France was a 1st world developed nation and a member of the G7 with generous public benefits that most Americans wish they had. The moment these people landed on European soil they stopped being refugees and became economic migrants. I'll put it this way: If you show up at my house begging for food and shelter, you don't get to demand that I make you filet mignon for dinner every night or insist on sleeping in the master bedroom!
63
There is a difference between Refugees and Economic Migrants. Only refugees, once being approved for such a status, are granted any such public benefits and even then only once accepted and embraced by the host country.
By European law, I don't believe refugees become economic migrants, it is the economic migrants who strive to be considered refugees for the above mentioned protections. There are no official rules around accepting economic migrants, they are generally deported.
By European law, I don't believe refugees become economic migrants, it is the economic migrants who strive to be considered refugees for the above mentioned protections. There are no official rules around accepting economic migrants, they are generally deported.
3
Why are these people referred to as "migrants" instead of as refugees?
4
Because they are motivated by economic opportunity, not physical fear of their lives.
26
Refugee is a legal status - they have to PROVE they are fleeing war or persecution based upon religion, tribe etc
All refugees are migrants
Not all migrants are refugees
In the case of the Calais camp, well over 80% are from the African sub-continent )no wars, just poverty); Pakistani, Afghanistan (not refugees under EU law) Bangladesh...
These people are ECONOMI migrants
They are looking for jobs (and welfare benefits) and they want the EU countries to pay for their education
MIGRANT is the correct word
All refugees are migrants
Not all migrants are refugees
In the case of the Calais camp, well over 80% are from the African sub-continent )no wars, just poverty); Pakistani, Afghanistan (not refugees under EU law) Bangladesh...
These people are ECONOMI migrants
They are looking for jobs (and welfare benefits) and they want the EU countries to pay for their education
MIGRANT is the correct word
20
Because the vast majority are simply economic migrants. They are not fleeing wars, they are fleeing overpopulation.
11
The "Jungle" exists due to apathy and misguided liberalism. To allow that community to have flourished for so long is a shame France and the French will have to be responsible for.
The majority of the people in the still photos are young men. Very similar to the photos of the vast migration that altered European history last year.
These migrants, vagabonds, refugees, whatever, should have been encouraged to stay in their homelands and work for improvement, instead they deserted their families and sapped strength from their people by deserting their countries of origin.
The French have condemned these people to being nomads, they should immeadiately institute a policy of return. The policy should include repatriation, safe zones and financial contributions to create viable industries in their countries of origin.
The majority of the people in the still photos are young men. Very similar to the photos of the vast migration that altered European history last year.
These migrants, vagabonds, refugees, whatever, should have been encouraged to stay in their homelands and work for improvement, instead they deserted their families and sapped strength from their people by deserting their countries of origin.
The French have condemned these people to being nomads, they should immeadiately institute a policy of return. The policy should include repatriation, safe zones and financial contributions to create viable industries in their countries of origin.
33
I think the US can help France with this problem by taking in half of the refugees that will be displaced. The US can settle them in neighborhoods that are home to politicians and their rich donors who support drastically increasing the amount of refugees being brought in. Chappaqua is a great place to start.
36
We can only hope the Clintons rent out their home to a families that fled their war torn countries. It should be good use of tax payer money, now that they likely will return to the White House rent free.
9
The Calais camp should never have existed. for at least two reasons.
First, the overwhelming majority of people there are adult males -- some now masquerading as minors to enter the UK -- who are economic migrants, not refugees from war-torn areas. In fact, in their countries, because they are male, they receive far more perks and entitlement than the vast majority of females, and they know it. Is this the type of person who deserves entry to the West?
Second, France was not the first EU nation they encountered. They should have been returned -- if not to their own nation, then to the first EU nation sped through. Those were the rules. That they were permitted to enter and remain in France for any time at all broke those rules.
I empathize with the French -- whom I largely admire -- who blame the bottleneck on liberal settlement policies in the UK, but France helped create this problem through a policy of non-challenge, non-return.
For those who think France and the UK should do more, please, start counting. The catastrophic numbers of people who want entry to Western Europe, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the US will only grow, and those nations have passed the point of being agrarian, small-business countries able to absorb illiterate, unskilled immigrants. With any wave of immigration, there needs to be a following period of immigration calm. With constant waves, the current values of a nation, values fought for and hard-won over decades, are submerged. Alas.
First, the overwhelming majority of people there are adult males -- some now masquerading as minors to enter the UK -- who are economic migrants, not refugees from war-torn areas. In fact, in their countries, because they are male, they receive far more perks and entitlement than the vast majority of females, and they know it. Is this the type of person who deserves entry to the West?
Second, France was not the first EU nation they encountered. They should have been returned -- if not to their own nation, then to the first EU nation sped through. Those were the rules. That they were permitted to enter and remain in France for any time at all broke those rules.
I empathize with the French -- whom I largely admire -- who blame the bottleneck on liberal settlement policies in the UK, but France helped create this problem through a policy of non-challenge, non-return.
For those who think France and the UK should do more, please, start counting. The catastrophic numbers of people who want entry to Western Europe, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the US will only grow, and those nations have passed the point of being agrarian, small-business countries able to absorb illiterate, unskilled immigrants. With any wave of immigration, there needs to be a following period of immigration calm. With constant waves, the current values of a nation, values fought for and hard-won over decades, are submerged. Alas.
86
The 1965 immigration reform changed America from a country where it was 88 percent white to whites soon being a minority.
A National Public Radio analysis of that reform from 2005 declared that law for what it was, the Washington elite deceiving the public about what was in that law:
"Karen Narasaki, who heads the Asian American Justice Center, finds the 1965 immigration overhaul all the more extraordinary because there's evidence it was not popular with the public.
"It was not what people were marching in the streets over in the 1960s," she says. "It was really a group of political elites who were trying to look into the future. And again, it was the issue of, 'Are we going to be true to what we say our values are?'"
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5391395
The current elites, NY Times most of all, is still telling us we should swallow what we know is wrong, because it's good for us, even if it tastes like castor oil.
A National Public Radio analysis of that reform from 2005 declared that law for what it was, the Washington elite deceiving the public about what was in that law:
"Karen Narasaki, who heads the Asian American Justice Center, finds the 1965 immigration overhaul all the more extraordinary because there's evidence it was not popular with the public.
"It was not what people were marching in the streets over in the 1960s," she says. "It was really a group of political elites who were trying to look into the future. And again, it was the issue of, 'Are we going to be true to what we say our values are?'"
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5391395
The current elites, NY Times most of all, is still telling us we should swallow what we know is wrong, because it's good for us, even if it tastes like castor oil.
31
It is interesting to see that like Germany, France will indeed be deporting some people once they have begun the asylum processing. The article says they have already deported hundreds. It is necessary for each country to make solid decisions about who they will accept and who they won't, as no country can train, house and feed everyone. The best will have opportunities, to do with them what they will, and the worst will be deported back to the dysfunction from which they came. This will no doubt make the worst places worse, as those places succumb to the ravages of climate change and resource depletion, and those societies will have only their usual execrable cultural mores to deal with their historically intractable problems. We have not yet begun to see "eyesores".
17
Not one single woman or child in this picture.
52
As always, there is little discussion of why the underpopulated Muslim countries which have profited from decades of rigged oil prices are not admitting Muslim refugees, but just exploiting their misery to gin up hatred of the West, just as they used Palestinian refugees as puppets in their hatred of Israel.
43
before you call muslim countries "underpopulated" you should look at the actual population figures in relation to the national GDP, and in particular you should look at the population demographics: most "muslim" countries have a disproportionately large number of people under the age of 30 who need work and cannot find it.
yes, these are often economic refugees, but they are not selfish. most hope to get a job, work hard, and send money home to their families.
i am emphatically in favor of strong borders and national control of national populations ... but don't dismiss the origin circumstances, hardships or inherent optimism of these young men.
yes, these are often economic refugees, but they are not selfish. most hope to get a job, work hard, and send money home to their families.
i am emphatically in favor of strong borders and national control of national populations ... but don't dismiss the origin circumstances, hardships or inherent optimism of these young men.
2
Which of Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Iran fit that description? And how many have fit that description continuously since 1948 while Palestinians suffered in refugee camps?
When you refer to "a disproportionately large number of people under the age of 30 who need work and cannot find it", doesn't the US come to mind? Or minorities already in France and much of Western Europe?
When you refer to "a disproportionately large number of people under the age of 30 who need work and cannot find it", doesn't the US come to mind? Or minorities already in France and much of Western Europe?
3
The Calais camp became a "jungle" because spineless France let it turn into that. I have seen interviews with the French citizens of Calais, speaking in shock about what Hollande's government allowed to happen to their city - the parents who can't let their daughters walk to and from school alone due to the collections of migrant men standing around the schools ogling girls as young as eight, the roaming gangs of aggressive men, the lethal attacks on lorry drivers crossing from Calais to Dover, the refusal to file for asylym in France or even tell French authorities where they really are from, and their insistence that somehow they all have a proscriptive right to enter the country of their choice. One reason Hollande finally bit the bullet and decided to close the camp is quiet polling filtering through that the outraged citizens of Calais are starting to talk about voting FN as it was clear that the current government won't put its own citizens first. It also became clear that the UK is not going to be bullied into taking them, and that if Hollande doesn't want to hand the FN even more ammunition next spring, the camp has to be closed.
Meanwhile, the places where those migrants are being transferred are equally angry.
Europe has made every mistake possible and the chickens are coming home to roost. The EU-Turkey deal is crumbling as Greece waves migrants off its swamped islands and northward, sa word is out the Aegean/Balkan route is opening up again. Watch this space.
Meanwhile, the places where those migrants are being transferred are equally angry.
Europe has made every mistake possible and the chickens are coming home to roost. The EU-Turkey deal is crumbling as Greece waves migrants off its swamped islands and northward, sa word is out the Aegean/Balkan route is opening up again. Watch this space.
44
Everyone in every country wants to go to a better evolved nation. They all want to go and think that arriving be it refugee status, illegal crossing or staying beyond a visa is entitlement to punish the receiving free society nation for their entire history, poverty, repression, medieval thinking and psychological problems. Face it that billions of people would like to flood every affected nation and global warming and food shortage will speed the plow
23
The inescapable reality of Africa and the Middle East is that the indigenous people have been failed by their governments. That is the fundamental reason why so many have attempted to migrate to Europe.
The failure of the African and Middle Eastern people to effectively govern themselves has been evident for decades.
In virtually every country since the end of the European colonies, strongman rule in the guise of either dictators or theocrats has been the rule and poverty the outcome. What passes for local economies has centered on the extraction of natural resources with virtually zero industrial innovation or any form of services industries created. Toss in the perpetual civil wars of competing oligarchs, and the picture is complete.
So what is the answer?
It is clear that the policies of such people as Angela Merkel have proven disastrous. No matter how wealthy the host country, absorbing the social and economic costs of the immigrants has been unaffordable at best and chaotically disruptive at worst. This is also a reality.
The root cause of indigenous African and Middle Eastern people proving themselves incapable of self governance must be addressed.
No sane civilized country would want to recolonize those regions except for control over strategic natural resources in a very few of the regions. One would think this a natural problem area for the UN to address, but the incompetence of that organization speaks for itself.
No easy answers.
The failure of the African and Middle Eastern people to effectively govern themselves has been evident for decades.
In virtually every country since the end of the European colonies, strongman rule in the guise of either dictators or theocrats has been the rule and poverty the outcome. What passes for local economies has centered on the extraction of natural resources with virtually zero industrial innovation or any form of services industries created. Toss in the perpetual civil wars of competing oligarchs, and the picture is complete.
So what is the answer?
It is clear that the policies of such people as Angela Merkel have proven disastrous. No matter how wealthy the host country, absorbing the social and economic costs of the immigrants has been unaffordable at best and chaotically disruptive at worst. This is also a reality.
The root cause of indigenous African and Middle Eastern people proving themselves incapable of self governance must be addressed.
No sane civilized country would want to recolonize those regions except for control over strategic natural resources in a very few of the regions. One would think this a natural problem area for the UN to address, but the incompetence of that organization speaks for itself.
No easy answers.
39
I've thought about this a lot over the years. Being an Africanamerican over 60, I have seen the end of colonialism, the end of Apartheid, endless revolutionary struggles and some triumphs. In my youth, I celebrated Independence and I still do but the reality is that all these years later, what has happened to the people of Africa? Generations have come and gone and the suffering and exploitation continue. I am left with the notion that the tribalism that supercedes nation is everything. It's the cause and 'justification' for genocide and the root of evil throughout the African continent, throughout the Middle East and throughout Afganistan, Pakistan and even the Indian continent. So what is to be done? Where are the lessons from other former tribal-based cultures and how did they come to the point where the common good triumphed over tribal differences in the minds and hearts of the people? Maybe there really aren't any.
2
These uneducated men are a future political timebomb for France.
They will start another cycle of resentful unemployable people who are fuel for future terrorism.
They will start another cycle of resentful unemployable people who are fuel for future terrorism.
88
This is why no one will miss Britain in the EU. Disgraceful.
For month these migrants acted illegally, they attacked trucks, destroyed goods, and got away with it. This was a broken window, and encouraged the migrants to riot along the camps. The failure, the loss of control was at the very beginning. The first thing these migrants have to learn is, that they have to cooperate with the authorities, that this is not alike those failed states, they crossed through their journey to north africa.
But france has failed to enforce law and order, and in return the migrants treated france like a banana republic. This is a shame for france, and an explanation why france fails with migrants.
But france has failed to enforce law and order, and in return the migrants treated france like a banana republic. This is a shame for france, and an explanation why france fails with migrants.
81
People's attitudes are formed in their childhood and youth. If you grow up in a lawless and failed country, it is very likely you will always act like you can do whatever you want. Even those who manage to conform outwardly do not have any real respect for the law or political institutions.
37
In some way, these migrants never experienced a functional government, they always arranged policies with authorities as they got along.
You can get this "immediate reward of planning" attitude when you look at these migrants desperately want into the UK, but when they reach the UK, just at that moment they start thinking about the next steps, which are mostly based on naive expectations.
So it very important to tell them from the very start, that they now have become a figure in a system, and that they have to fit in, for good and bad. Their flimsy get along attitude will not work.
But you must show that unmistakable. Take fingerprints, take photos, give them a schedule, a list with dos and dont, places for help and sanctions for noncooperation.
If you let things slide, they will handle the situation like they always did, and than you get something like the jungle.
You can get this "immediate reward of planning" attitude when you look at these migrants desperately want into the UK, but when they reach the UK, just at that moment they start thinking about the next steps, which are mostly based on naive expectations.
So it very important to tell them from the very start, that they now have become a figure in a system, and that they have to fit in, for good and bad. Their flimsy get along attitude will not work.
But you must show that unmistakable. Take fingerprints, take photos, give them a schedule, a list with dos and dont, places for help and sanctions for noncooperation.
If you let things slide, they will handle the situation like they always did, and than you get something like the jungle.
4
But did you yourself not support this at the 'very beginning'?
Good grief -- I come here to see this article and comments after sitting in a group interview with a Central African refugee -- an event sponsored by my employer here in TR.
This calm man, in a pressed white shirt and neatly polished shoes, quietly recounted such horrors as his wife being raped in front of their children, and his mother being murdered for not revealing his whereabouts. Insofar as I *could* listen, it seems that he was compelled to participate in some corrupt government scheme that he could neither tolerate nor disengage from.
What, should I *dis*believe him? Turn my back? Accept that "this is life" and that people should simply stay where they are and, I don't know what -- fight it out? The mere fact that human beings actually *prefer* to take their chances in the "jungle" of a foreign country underlines that their home situations are actually and literally unbearable. I can't imagine the slender hope that keeps such people going. Can we not see this?
I guess many of the commenters here are pragmatists. I just don't find a pragmatic attitude so easy to maintain.
This calm man, in a pressed white shirt and neatly polished shoes, quietly recounted such horrors as his wife being raped in front of their children, and his mother being murdered for not revealing his whereabouts. Insofar as I *could* listen, it seems that he was compelled to participate in some corrupt government scheme that he could neither tolerate nor disengage from.
What, should I *dis*believe him? Turn my back? Accept that "this is life" and that people should simply stay where they are and, I don't know what -- fight it out? The mere fact that human beings actually *prefer* to take their chances in the "jungle" of a foreign country underlines that their home situations are actually and literally unbearable. I can't imagine the slender hope that keeps such people going. Can we not see this?
I guess many of the commenters here are pragmatists. I just don't find a pragmatic attitude so easy to maintain.
49
do you not know the narrative ?
one man is a tragedy,
hundred a catastrophe,
and millions are history.
Just take a few steps back, and those people will become numbers. That is one way to bear this.
one man is a tragedy,
hundred a catastrophe,
and millions are history.
Just take a few steps back, and those people will become numbers. That is one way to bear this.
3
Until the root of these problems for these migrations are solved - there will surely be another Calais - and soon. The problems are many: over population, global warming (record droughts which impact food production), Western Governments during a blind eye to corrupt governments that oversee the export of raw materials (think Oil or tantalum for cell phones from the Congo) and finally the continued sale of weaponry to groups to carry out wars. All these issues can be and need to be addressed, but I suspect special interests and the lack of political will - means that things will have to get even worse before they get addressed. Calais is not a solution nor is the migration of millions into Europe. We have to do more at the root.
25
Sooner or later much harsher treatements await refugees and economic migrants. The pressure to move will intensify tremendously over the next few decades as global warming comes into play full force. Giving refuge now will mean more encouraging more later. On the other hand, being harsh now, while simultaneously helping out societies with access to birth control and education for women will save more lives in the future. Most western religious groups and NGOs funded by the west will not even mention birth control currently.
60
Maybe some of those Europeans will begin to find themselves jealous of our Second Amendment over here in the US of A when these impoverished and unassimilated angry young men begin to rally for more free goods and services.
2
Australia has the right idea about illegal economic migrants-- boat people turned away and guaranteed to never be allowed to settle there. Come in the right way or don't come at all. The US could learn from Australia, too.
What a mess!
And now these unskilled young men will be spread all over France... That will surely help the situation, NOT.
What a mess!
And now these unskilled young men will be spread all over France... That will surely help the situation, NOT.
106
Another article on a complex problem where people will comment with pithy one-liners that purport to solve everything. The truth is that no one commenting here (yes, myself included) has any idea how this will play out or which strategies will ultimately benefit the most people. France, like the US, Germany, UK and other countries dealing with refugees, is trying its best. The refugees are looking for a better life. Who wouldn't? A hundred years from now we may have proper perspective on this mass movement of people. Until then, it's all just guesswork.
17
You are factually and historically incorrect. This type of migration has occurred for Aeons in those regions. Muslims have always come to the west. And overtime they have always been pushed back. It is a diametrically opposed ideology to Western values. It does not help matters when liberals push that theoritical idea of integration, that is the salad bowl Theory vs. Assimilation, that is The Melting Pot Paradigm. History is your guide. History always repeats itself.
18
I'm not sure why "humanitarian" groups think the shutdown of this camp is a bad thing. People stuck in this camp were having an awful life, getting the bare necessities and nothing else. No schooling, no jobs, no future. They may as well have stayed in Syria, scavenging in the ruins, it's about the same conditions except for the bombings.
So I think France is doing a good thing here, housing the people it can, sending some people back if they don't qualify as refugees (eg: people from Eritrea, which isn't a war zone). This is far better than the alternative of staying in the awful conditions of the camp, and these people weren't going to get to go to Britain no matter what, seems to me.
So I think France is doing a good thing here, housing the people it can, sending some people back if they don't qualify as refugees (eg: people from Eritrea, which isn't a war zone). This is far better than the alternative of staying in the awful conditions of the camp, and these people weren't going to get to go to Britain no matter what, seems to me.
37
They aren't from Syria, Dan. They are from Afghanistan, Sudan, Eritrea, and other violent, failed states.
12
Thanks Kaleberg, whenever I see a crowd of refugees in Europe I assume some are from Syria.
Syrians don't look African because they aren't from Africa.
1
As a Frenchman living in France, I'm trying to see the glass half-full : this situation has been going on for way too long, and I'm glad that we are being reasonable by offering a decent future here in France. Of course, that's not what those people were craving, but it's something, and they will be treated fairly and be offered to create build their future.
Now, more than half of these migrants are only "economical migrants", not "war refugees". And the hard part will be to sort out which ones are really fleeing the horror, and sending back those who have nothing to do in France in the first place.
While we speak of France handling all this mess, what is Britain doing ? We get the dirty job, they don't seem to be helping. After all, it's France that has been enforcing Britain's policies... Sad
Now, more than half of these migrants are only "economical migrants", not "war refugees". And the hard part will be to sort out which ones are really fleeing the horror, and sending back those who have nothing to do in France in the first place.
While we speak of France handling all this mess, what is Britain doing ? We get the dirty job, they don't seem to be helping. After all, it's France that has been enforcing Britain's policies... Sad
13
Secular France choosing to make their nation inhabitable has every right to offer Muslim "migrants" a stark choice: follow, respect our cultural mores which include banning ostentatious religious displays or get out!
49
My heart goes out to all the unfortunate people of the world who are desperate enough to brave danger and deprivation in hope of a decent life.
But Britain cannot take them all in, and taking those now in Calais is just encouraging more to come.
The solution cannot be for the billion of people in terrible circumstances to move to Britain or America, it has to be to improve their circumstances at home.
That should be the world's priority, for all our sakes.
But Britain cannot take them all in, and taking those now in Calais is just encouraging more to come.
The solution cannot be for the billion of people in terrible circumstances to move to Britain or America, it has to be to improve their circumstances at home.
That should be the world's priority, for all our sakes.
25
A tremendous amount of African aid has been provided over the last 20-40 years. What happened to those billions of European, American, and other generous dollars?
Squandered by the corrupt governments of these "needy" African countries.
My heart cannot go out to so many people. My heart is not that big.
Squandered by the corrupt governments of these "needy" African countries.
My heart cannot go out to so many people. My heart is not that big.
7
The Cheney-Bush Iraq gift of grief just keeps giving.
18
Texas has a lot of open spaces. Maybe everyone would like to go live on the Bush Ranch. George could cook for them as his form of penitence.
4
Read the article more carefully; i.e refugees from Africa.
6
You can't blame Bush and Cheney, loathsome as their actions were, for Eritrea and Sudan, which is where many of these migrants come from.
12
"a complicated plan.. to disperse them in waves of bus journeys to dozens of towns and villages all over France."
Hold on, not enough info. This is like Obama's plan to close down Gitmo by dispersing the detainees across the U.S. But no one wanted them so the plan fell apart. I suspect these refugees aren't going to be warmly welcomed anywhere either, for a number of reasons. Have the destinations been announced? And if the decisions haven't been made, where are these men being held in the meantime?
Hold on, not enough info. This is like Obama's plan to close down Gitmo by dispersing the detainees across the U.S. But no one wanted them so the plan fell apart. I suspect these refugees aren't going to be warmly welcomed anywhere either, for a number of reasons. Have the destinations been announced? And if the decisions haven't been made, where are these men being held in the meantime?
12
Should have built a wall. Europeans have the right to their own countries, cultures, language and rules.
36
There are too many people. Many of the economic migrants come into our countries and continue to have large families- families they cannot afford.
Look at the 'refugee' camp called Dadaab. There are now over 150 thousand children in the camp- most of whom were born there.
We cannot solve this problem (over-population, lack of resources) by moving everyone out of devastated lands and into lands that are still productive.
The answer to all of these problems is simple: require 'refugees' to not have children and to, within some period, return to their country of origin.
Look at the 'refugee' camp called Dadaab. There are now over 150 thousand children in the camp- most of whom were born there.
We cannot solve this problem (over-population, lack of resources) by moving everyone out of devastated lands and into lands that are still productive.
The answer to all of these problems is simple: require 'refugees' to not have children and to, within some period, return to their country of origin.
57
The problem is that the more Europe improves conditions for the migrants, the more people will arrive. Most of these young men have no qualifications that would make them productive members of society. Europe has a high unemployment rate, especially among young people, so many of these men would end up on welfare rolls. Some of these single men have attitudes toward women that make them a threat to European women. And as soon as they are settled, they will want to bring their extended family members. And like Molenbeek, Belgium, they create their own neighborhoods that have become dangerous places for Europeans.
81
There are something like 1.5 million refugees in the EU
There are something like 10,000 in the camp
if you are not innumerate, you will probably conclude that this is a tiny issue being blown way out of proportion by the media
There are something like 10,000 in the camp
if you are not innumerate, you will probably conclude that this is a tiny issue being blown way out of proportion by the media
8
This is a living hell that won't end.
They are not wanted, most are only warehoused.
How many will actually become productive citizens, and how many will need welfare indefinitely?
Many speak french, but the dominate language in Syria is Arabic.
I applaud and respect the French government. They've taken in 30,000 refugees. The U.S.A. has taken in 10,000 so far. Many American officials, especially the states, don't want any. (Trump says none. Shocker)
God Bless those stranded souls, and God help them.
They are not wanted, most are only warehoused.
How many will actually become productive citizens, and how many will need welfare indefinitely?
Many speak french, but the dominate language in Syria is Arabic.
I applaud and respect the French government. They've taken in 30,000 refugees. The U.S.A. has taken in 10,000 so far. Many American officials, especially the states, don't want any. (Trump says none. Shocker)
God Bless those stranded souls, and God help them.
4
Again, these people are not from Syria. They are economic refugees from Africa and Afghanistan.
26
My mistake. These people are from Africa and Afghanistan.
Nevertheless, I think there will be, in any event, big challenges in adjusting to a society of a different culture; in employment and otherwise. Yes. My heart goes out to them.
Nevertheless, I think there will be, in any event, big challenges in adjusting to a society of a different culture; in employment and otherwise. Yes. My heart goes out to them.
1
Only Africans from French-colonized countries speak French. Syrians are not African and do not have African colored skin. You are misunderstanding the article for whom they are referring to, this is not an article about Syrian refugees.
4
France is doing the best they can with a dreadful situation. Then we will see the resentments that last decades. When different cultures merge this way with s flood every receiving host country suffers and bears behavior that's horrible.
Absorbing floods of Islamic refugees who will largely hate the alien nation is challenging beyond the intellectualization rattled here. They have so much terrorism, crime and violence from Islamic people as England, Germany, Scandinavia and so many others do. In all countries they stay separate, blaming the host nation for their plight. They hate them and they hate us for their history. It's an unresolvable mess.
Absorbing floods of Islamic refugees who will largely hate the alien nation is challenging beyond the intellectualization rattled here. They have so much terrorism, crime and violence from Islamic people as England, Germany, Scandinavia and so many others do. In all countries they stay separate, blaming the host nation for their plight. They hate them and they hate us for their history. It's an unresolvable mess.
155
this sir, is garbage, and, if i may so while staying within the Times guidelines, "Islamic refugees who will ...hate the aline nation..."
is , sorry to say, racist, defeatist nonsense.
maybe if you all on the GOP spent more time on Birth control and supporting democracy in the 3rd world, instead of your attack on Iraq, we wouldn't have this issue in the first place
is , sorry to say, racist, defeatist nonsense.
maybe if you all on the GOP spent more time on Birth control and supporting democracy in the 3rd world, instead of your attack on Iraq, we wouldn't have this issue in the first place
4
" In all countries they stay separate, blaming the host nation for their plight. "
They feel that Islam gives them the "right" to molest "immodest" women and kill those "infidels" who refuse to convert to Islam. In the coming war between the EU and an Islamic Caliphate they will be the fifth column in the EU.
They feel that Islam gives them the "right" to molest "immodest" women and kill those "infidels" who refuse to convert to Islam. In the coming war between the EU and an Islamic Caliphate they will be the fifth column in the EU.
17
If you want to see the hate these people have for the host country I suggest viewing some of the videos of Muslims speaking of how they will overtake Britain's population in two generations. While Britain's people are having one or two children they have 6-12 of them. They march in the streets condemning Great Britain, thousands are on the Dole while reproducing. One gentleman hasnt worked in 10 years though, "I have seven British degrees!" and has 11 children. Another ensconces himself on a bed of pillows and tells his people not to work at a Sikh food bank because it means the Sikhs are valid religion. Meanwhile his people get food from it.
You've no idea what's going on where these people feel about their hosts.
You've no idea what's going on where these people feel about their hosts.
15
It's only a photo, but I don't see these men looking grateful and waving the French flag.
120
cyclone: It is not "only a photo", it is a photograph pf men who are cold and tired and hungry and apprehensive about what is to come. And you want them to look jubilant and grateful?
1
They hate every receiving nation that can't be their caretaker, God or mother soothing their troubled cultures from 100s of years of awfulness. They hate the US, Europe and all nations that are different. You don't see humanitarian efforts from Arab states
22
when you're standing on a line to get your basic needs met, say at a supermarket, or at any government office you may need to, such as to get a passport, or a license to drive, do you usually wave a flag?
2
Let's be clear that these weren't poor or dispossessed people, mostly young men, who huddled in fear of being repatriated to their home countries. They huddled in fear of being forced to become French, falling short with of their dream of reaching the U.K. Much like those admitted to the US as supposed refugees from El Salvador's violence, their demands for a new place to resettle are very specific. Intermediate countries won't fit the bill.
129
And the specificity of their demands is what makes this whole situation so infuriating. It's hard to reason with people who riot over the quality of the FREE food you give to them.
28
They want to go to where the benefits are best.
14
In one You Tube video I watched a man complain that the food he was getting in Germany was fit only for dogs and women. Is this the kind of man you want in your country ladies?
Another group threw the food onto the railroad tracks including the bottled water.
Another wants cash instead so he can buy cigarettes.
A woman complains that the accommodations and food are so bad she is going back to Syria.
Ingrates!
Another group threw the food onto the railroad tracks including the bottled water.
Another wants cash instead so he can buy cigarettes.
A woman complains that the accommodations and food are so bad she is going back to Syria.
Ingrates!
2
That is the end of Europe. In fifty years white French will be outnumbered and African poverty will have come in full force to France.
Adieu France.
Adieu France.
150
Unless France and the rest of Europe begin deporting these "refugees" within 50 years France will come part of an Afro-European Islamic Caliphate.
52
or tant pis as the French say
1
That must be stopped
4
The migrant issue must ultimately be solved by improving the situation in the homelands of the migrants. This would require a herculean effort and incalculable resources (money). The likelihood of success is small at best. The other two options are what France is attempting - spread the problem around without solving it and using repressive measures (Brexit, deportation) which will cause strife. Integration of migrants into Europe seems best but Europeans seem not to want this. And it is their continent after all. The really best solution was to have prevented it in the first place with sane policies in Syria and Africa. The outcome: more of what we see now.
19
The more likely solution is violent death in large numbers, as we have seen in the resource wars. masquerading as sectarian strife, going on in Syria.
2
it is not the French it is the immigrants who do not want to addept.
11
These "immigrants" don't want to integrate. They want their own cultural enclaves. They also want the host society's culture to adapt to their way of religious thinking. The Brits have already caved in due to ultra liberalism.
Looking at the picture in the article, most of the migrants are young men. They will be uneducated, mostly unemployable, eager to have their relatives join them and ultimately a burden on the societies they join. This "experiment" has been a failure for years. Europe, like everywhere on earth, has a permanent over supply of labor. This is not a recipe for social or economic prosperity. The west endangers itself while providing no help in decreasing the always increasing supply of surplus humans that the countries of origin will keep producing. We should make every effort to help these countries reject the causes of their exploding populations- mostly religion, access to birth control and lack of education, especially for women, but letting them all come west should not be on the table.
183
When France came to Africa and helped itself to it's resources, did someone ask if the French presence in Africa should be "on the table'? No Africa's resources were taken by force. It's only racism that allows you to call people "surplus humans". I suspect you would never refer to Europeans that way.
2
Yes, as reported in Bloomberg (3/2016), Sweden is so concerned about not having enough jobs for all these unskilled workers that: "Three of the opposition parties have become so worried about the bleak job prospects for migrants that they are prepared to legislate to lower wages " (in: "Here's How the Refugee Crisis Threatens Swedish Social Model"). That's right - many in Sweden were contemplating lowering the minimum wage.
8
They won't tolerate it and the women largely support the status quo.
1
Most of these migrants are economic. They all are there because apparently the UK has the best European benefits and are the most l lax about everything else. These people travelled, deliberately, to get there. They could have stopped and stayed in Greece or Italy. Instead treked all the way to Calais, aided by maps and smart phones and British so-called dogooders. Britain is actually allowing full grown adults to enter under the disguise of calling themselves "children" and refusing to do any tests on their age because it would be "intrusive". Read about it in The Guardian.
110
Obama, the u.s. merkle, is doing much the same thing with our southern border. Trump is a direct result of citizens of this country seeing a government that by all accounts, is more interested in open borders than in taking care of its own. The rise of the right parties in Europe is a further sign of this. We can help the third world and not turn the west into one at the same time, but it will require the kind of leadership we don't seem to have in this country or Europe.
15
Social welfare spending in France is among the highest in the world, and much higher than the UK. "Social expenditure" which includes public health, public education, public pensions and welfare spending amounts to 32% of GDP in France, but only 23% in the UK (source OECD)
It's also the case that welfare spending in the UK goes primarily on the elderly, with most people of working age receiving little. An unemployed adult in the UK is entitled to about $65 a week in "job seekers allowance". Housing allowance is more but this goes straight to the landlords (and UK housing is generally small and more expensive than in the rest of Europe).
What the UK does have is much lower unemployment than France (4.9%, just half the eurozone average), a faster growing economy, and a less divided, less conflicted society (unlike France, there's no National Front at 30% in the polls, no ban on veils, less of a problem with terrorism, less emphasis on adhering to national identity). It also has the English language of course, which many of these migrants already know somewhat.
It's also the case that welfare spending in the UK goes primarily on the elderly, with most people of working age receiving little. An unemployed adult in the UK is entitled to about $65 a week in "job seekers allowance". Housing allowance is more but this goes straight to the landlords (and UK housing is generally small and more expensive than in the rest of Europe).
What the UK does have is much lower unemployment than France (4.9%, just half the eurozone average), a faster growing economy, and a less divided, less conflicted society (unlike France, there's no National Front at 30% in the polls, no ban on veils, less of a problem with terrorism, less emphasis on adhering to national identity). It also has the English language of course, which many of these migrants already know somewhat.
5
French for one understand fully well the dangers of Islamists coming under the refugee program! The muslim refugees always end up being an economic burden and a security risk!! They do not represent hard working individuals who can contribute to the society that takes them in.. no wonder the BREXIT vote was a success.. if we elect Hillary as our next president we will be welcoming Islamists who will feed on our tax dollars and pose a security danger! Trump pence 2016!
47
You are correct in the problem, including Clinton, but Trump will do nothing of the sort. Neither Trump nor Pence can find his way out of a paper bag, and Trump is likely to go to the dark end of the bag and start punching.
5
Haven't you heard? Trump/Pence have collapsed as viable candidates. I guess there just aren't enough racists in America.
3
The French Government should never have permitted the Calais "settlement" to be built in the first place. Allowing a crowd of migrants and their enablers to establish what was, literally, an independent colony within France was beyond reckless.
155
No separate communities can exist in host nations. Pakistan doesn't control tribal Taliban villages. Yet in London, England, a Muslim immigrant neighborhood harassed and terrorized no. Muslim passersby because "the clothes they wear were offensive to their culture". Let's get real.
2
The implications of integrating all the people Europe has taken in - willingly or unwillingly - are gargantuan. The emergence of slums (spontaneous ones like this one, or planned ones like the ghettos surrounding Paris) have produced too many problems and solved too few.
This is grim, but France is doing the right thing. This is an enormously complex problem, with heartbreaking causes and consequences. I wish the people of France, and the French people well.
More heartbreak is yet to come.
In business, if your competitor gets into your business, you must get into his business (or hers). If you don't, you lose. I know this is not business, but the analogy is apt.
If refugees keep coming for one reason or another - it is because the local government and economy has failed them in colossal ways. If we really want to take a long term approach, we must begin answering the morally tenuous question about re-colonization.
Keeping all judgment aside; an inference I can draw from the post 2000 European problem of immigration is: If you don't go there and take over, fix the government and society in which people can breathe and live, they will come to your home and take over, and get in the way of you breathing and living.
I am enormously saddened by this inference. Yet, it might be based on cold logic. I am not suggesting action tomorrow. I am suggesting 'out of the box' thinking today.
Kalidan
This is grim, but France is doing the right thing. This is an enormously complex problem, with heartbreaking causes and consequences. I wish the people of France, and the French people well.
More heartbreak is yet to come.
In business, if your competitor gets into your business, you must get into his business (or hers). If you don't, you lose. I know this is not business, but the analogy is apt.
If refugees keep coming for one reason or another - it is because the local government and economy has failed them in colossal ways. If we really want to take a long term approach, we must begin answering the morally tenuous question about re-colonization.
Keeping all judgment aside; an inference I can draw from the post 2000 European problem of immigration is: If you don't go there and take over, fix the government and society in which people can breathe and live, they will come to your home and take over, and get in the way of you breathing and living.
I am enormously saddened by this inference. Yet, it might be based on cold logic. I am not suggesting action tomorrow. I am suggesting 'out of the box' thinking today.
Kalidan
106
Funny how we had all that death and destruction in IRAQ but we didn't have economic migrants on scale as this. Under Obama and the global if we somehow now have millions of people who are getting into these countries. You may be right about the actions taken in those countries causing a need for migration. But to suggest that there was no other alternative is a lie.
One final note: if liberals would push the idea of assimilation vs. Integration they might get a lot farther along in their goal of massive immigration into these host countries. Assimilation is approved Paradigm. Integration is a professor's Theory. There is no evidence that it can work in a globalized society. Fences make good neighbors. What makes a country strong are its shared values, a Common Language, and a unifying culture. It can be a mix of cultures. But there has to be one central idea that permeates and perpetuates the culture.
If you bring in millions of people who have a religious ideology that is diametrically opposed to the host country you are simply igniting a powder keg. History is our God. History always repeats. Simply Having new technology and Google isn't in and of itself going to change the world and Human Nature.
One final note: if liberals would push the idea of assimilation vs. Integration they might get a lot farther along in their goal of massive immigration into these host countries. Assimilation is approved Paradigm. Integration is a professor's Theory. There is no evidence that it can work in a globalized society. Fences make good neighbors. What makes a country strong are its shared values, a Common Language, and a unifying culture. It can be a mix of cultures. But there has to be one central idea that permeates and perpetuates the culture.
If you bring in millions of people who have a religious ideology that is diametrically opposed to the host country you are simply igniting a powder keg. History is our God. History always repeats. Simply Having new technology and Google isn't in and of itself going to change the world and Human Nature.
11
You may also note that one of the biggest failure of these countries is the failed, corrupt and extraction nature of public institutions that they inherited from the colonial powers!
Kalidan's is one of the few rational posts here.
"Few" sure is a sad statistic on this topic.
"Few" sure is a sad statistic on this topic.
Vive la France!
14
I strongly object to the use of the term "eyesore." Given how migrants, immigrants, and refugees are now being talked about in the west, this term is extremely dismaying. If there is an "eyesore," it is the homes of the people living in luxury who could care less about the less fortunate. If the Times means that the migrants should be living in better conditions, then I agree. But the term is unfortunate unless put in context, for example, "What the French government considers to be an eyesore."
16
Hope, there are homeless people in the US could you put a few of them up in your place and then after a few weeks lecture the rest of us about what to do.Be sure to include some who will empty your refigirator and tell you why your way of life and thinking is all wrong and if you are set in your way will change it forcebly
30
Thank you, Hope. I found the recent photo of the interior of Trump's apartment to be a colossal eyesore: ugly both literally and metaphorically.
1
If you consider nice homes an "eyesore", blame the NYTimes for feature articles and ads for multi-million dollar homes.
Do you live in a nice home? Would you like a camp like this next door?
Do you live in a nice home? Would you like a camp like this next door?
14
There are 7 billion people in the world, 5 billion of them poorer than the poorest country in Europe. Some day the Western world will realize that it cannot take them all in.
212
chloe- you risk being called a xenophobic racist by the nyts and the open borders crowd. Of course, your completely right. Much of the west would be at a static or falling population if it were not for immigrants and the huge families many of them bring. We should be helping the over populated countries reduce their populations not transfer their xs people to the west. It will require $, education, the liberation of women and hardest of all, rejection of the ignorance, tribalism and most importantly religion that had held back humanity for so long. Signing climate agreements and flooding the west with people is a waste of time and speed us further from a true soln without population control.
63
This letter writer is assuming that it is poverty driving these immigrants, all but forgetting the wars, and in some instances genocide, that has been the motivating factor.
8
"Much of the west would be at a static or falling population if it were not for immigrants "
If the West really needs immigrants we should only allow those who are well educated and are fluent in a western language. Increasingly less expensive and more efficient automation will continue to reduce the need for illiterate, uneducated workers.
If the West really needs immigrants we should only allow those who are well educated and are fluent in a western language. Increasingly less expensive and more efficient automation will continue to reduce the need for illiterate, uneducated workers.
30