I don't think these trends are permanent. The fact is, Trump is a very unusual candidate. The gains Clinton has made in the white educated ranks and normally suburban women has more to do with who Trump is as a person rather than ideological shifts of either party. Many or most of these 'new' Clinton supporters would have voted Republican if a 'normal' Republican candidate was running, and certainly will vote Republican next time if the Republican party puts up a presidential candidate without the many and obvious flaws of Trump. Trump has identified a legitimate message (impact of free trade, illegal immigration, and tax and other policies that favor the rich on the working class with a hint of racism thrown in), but has too many moral failings to legitimately carry the message.
10
One has to wonder where this might lead. The truth is that it is effectively impossible for the American government (or any other government for that matter) to improve the lot of the traditional lower-middle class worker, simply because the traditional lower-middle class jobs they relied will soon no longer exist.
It's true that some of these jobs were "exported". And maybe Trump-style tariff-barriers would help in the short-term, albeit I doubt that the trade war they would ignite would end up benefiting anybody. But it would only delay the inevitable. It's only a matter of time before the realities of automation -- the ones which allows GM to make the same number of cars with a fraction of the workforce needed 40 years ago -- takes hold in low-wage countries as well. Robots are always going to end up cheaper than people.
The "educational" divide is a red herring. We are going to have to think long and hard about the best way to address wealth inequity in a post-manufacturing economy. And fantasizing (again, Trump-style) about a return to a 1950s style economy is not going to do anybody any good at all.
It's true that some of these jobs were "exported". And maybe Trump-style tariff-barriers would help in the short-term, albeit I doubt that the trade war they would ignite would end up benefiting anybody. But it would only delay the inevitable. It's only a matter of time before the realities of automation -- the ones which allows GM to make the same number of cars with a fraction of the workforce needed 40 years ago -- takes hold in low-wage countries as well. Robots are always going to end up cheaper than people.
The "educational" divide is a red herring. We are going to have to think long and hard about the best way to address wealth inequity in a post-manufacturing economy. And fantasizing (again, Trump-style) about a return to a 1950s style economy is not going to do anybody any good at all.
34
The comparison between the USA and Europe overlooks the early beginnings of each zone. Europe started out as a culturally disparate humanity forming into tribes, nations and ultimately a united group of nations. White Europeans formed all American States and ended up as a culturally disparate humanity.
2
What completely negates this entire theory is the unquestioned control of collectivists and socialists on 95% of college campuses.
Americans know that very few decently-paid jobs require any contact with the progressive training camps that the universities have become since Vietnam, and especially since the collapse of the Soviet Union.
(OBTW, So many incoming students' parents were married that law school is immediately marked off their list anyway.)
As a result, the members of both sexes (or 32 genders in NYC) who come through college are obedient lockstepping Democrats like their teachers at college were.
The allure of their handheld devices locks this in further because actual thought about politics and governments never translates well to a two-inch screen.
But they are ALL up to date on the Kardashians!
Americans know that very few decently-paid jobs require any contact with the progressive training camps that the universities have become since Vietnam, and especially since the collapse of the Soviet Union.
(OBTW, So many incoming students' parents were married that law school is immediately marked off their list anyway.)
As a result, the members of both sexes (or 32 genders in NYC) who come through college are obedient lockstepping Democrats like their teachers at college were.
The allure of their handheld devices locks this in further because actual thought about politics and governments never translates well to a two-inch screen.
But they are ALL up to date on the Kardashians!
3
"This election is a hint of one way things could turn next: a new split between the beneficiaries of multicultural globalism and the working-class ethnonationalists who feel left behind economically and culturally."
Let us keep in mind the frightening ways Trump has stirred up unreasonable fear and anger in his "economically and culturally left behind base." There is Steve Webb a 60 something year old carpenter from a Cincinnati Ohio suburb who told the Boston Globe he will be one of Trumps "poll watchers." Here is what Steve told a reporter:
“I’ll look for ... well, it’s called racial profiling. Mexicans. Syrians. People who can’t speak American,” he said. “I’m going to go right up behind them. I’ll do everything legally. I want to see if they are accountable. I’m not going to do anything illegal. I’m going to make them a little bit nervous.”
People who can't speak "American"? Someone who is saying he will intimidate voters? Steve Webb is a very frightening representative of the willful ignorance and bigotry among Trump voters.
Let us keep in mind the frightening ways Trump has stirred up unreasonable fear and anger in his "economically and culturally left behind base." There is Steve Webb a 60 something year old carpenter from a Cincinnati Ohio suburb who told the Boston Globe he will be one of Trumps "poll watchers." Here is what Steve told a reporter:
“I’ll look for ... well, it’s called racial profiling. Mexicans. Syrians. People who can’t speak American,” he said. “I’m going to go right up behind them. I’ll do everything legally. I want to see if they are accountable. I’m not going to do anything illegal. I’m going to make them a little bit nervous.”
People who can't speak "American"? Someone who is saying he will intimidate voters? Steve Webb is a very frightening representative of the willful ignorance and bigotry among Trump voters.
20
Thank God we won the Revolutionary War or we'd ALL still be speaking English.
14
Higher ed is where a lot of people from conservative families find out that there are other ways to look at the world than through narrow religious and political ideologies; where they learn to question authority and distinguish between fact and opinion; where they discover that there are many people different from them in myriad ways who also matter.
No wonder conservatives want to change curricula and make college prohibitively expensive!
No wonder conservatives want to change curricula and make college prohibitively expensive!
40
This NOT a problem of white uneducated people. This is a problem of white educated people. Those failed by the recovery and the 20 years before that have been clear about their issues an understand very well the issues of the wealthy because that is all they hear about from anyone not among themselves. Nothing of the kind can be said of the educated and wealthy about the uneducated no matter how articulate they are. They simply do not think anyone not like themselves is worth their time and can be plainly shown just by the proportion of articles and advertisements pointed toward the educated and wealthy in this paper alone. Nothing more clear came out for all to see in the paper's snub of Sanders.
Obama was voted in by people who not just wanted but needed a more robust progressive agenda, they desperately needed it. Now 8 years later and being handed the same agenda that has betrayed them?
It's not the uneducated who are the stupid ones here, it's the so called educated who are flat out ignorant of an underclass of now half the nation. If Hillary wants to have the mandate she will need to make the changes even those who won't accept they desperately need, It's time for the educated to finally learn what the poor already know before any headway can be made for everyone.
Obama was voted in by people who not just wanted but needed a more robust progressive agenda, they desperately needed it. Now 8 years later and being handed the same agenda that has betrayed them?
It's not the uneducated who are the stupid ones here, it's the so called educated who are flat out ignorant of an underclass of now half the nation. If Hillary wants to have the mandate she will need to make the changes even those who won't accept they desperately need, It's time for the educated to finally learn what the poor already know before any headway can be made for everyone.
21
This lends legitimacy to the proposal that our colleges and universities have indoctrinated students into a one way view of our society. Liberal ideas are all they accept now. When I graduated from undergraduate school back in the early 70s both sides of every ideological issue was examined, debated, and explored fairly and openly and students drew their own conclusions. When you have "safe zones" where ideas cannot be discussed and explored you have indoctrination. Liberals have done all they can to dictate learning in America for over 40 years.
If you are a product of a college or university more than 30 years ago you would think you were talking to a Marxist when you try to discuss conservative ideas with a college graduate or student today.
If you are a product of a college or university more than 30 years ago you would think you were talking to a Marxist when you try to discuss conservative ideas with a college graduate or student today.
8
Alternatively: Facts have a liberal bias.
11
Education is the path to a better life. Those without an education are at an economic disadvantage. The GOP has exploited the uneducated for decades by making their focus social issues instead of economics. Abortion, guns, gays, god, immigrants. They stir these people up and delude them into thinking these are the issues they should care about, that others are out to get them. If they had an education they would at least have the wherewithal to know they're being conned.
45
I think white men with little education beyond high school feel they are losing their position of power. First, a black president, and now a woman. Trump yells their frustrations when he screams about immigrants. He means immigrants of color, not white ones from Europe or Canada.
And I believe these men also fear losing their power within their families. Their religion teaches them that the man is the head of the family, just like it has been forever. This is freaking those dudes out, really. Equality, no way!
I hope someday these attitudes change and men are secure in their new role in a gender-equal world.
And I believe these men also fear losing their power within their families. Their religion teaches them that the man is the head of the family, just like it has been forever. This is freaking those dudes out, really. Equality, no way!
I hope someday these attitudes change and men are secure in their new role in a gender-equal world.
35
Christians believe the husband/father in the family is the SPIRITUAL leader of the family. As usual Christian teaching is distorted by ignorance of it. If folks want to make a valid point they should at least know something about the subject. Not to be insulting here. Ignorance is not a bad thing it just indicates a lack of knowledge.
4
When you're used to privilege, equality feels like oppression.
24
Really? St. Paul said, In Christ, there is no male or female.
1
A Dem leading in Western Michigan, the home of Gerald Ford and Amway and one of the most religiously conservative areas of the country is astounding. Never to be repeated, I bet.
6
Can you break out the data by "ball cap on forward" and "ball cap on backward," please? I have a theory ...
14
It is becoming apparent the very act of 'voting' may be a somewhat anachronistic notion. The fact is, establishment corrupt government is quietly becoming irrelevant in the modern era. Moreover, thinking people realize the value of a college degree has been diluted, diminished beyond recognition. Affirmative action programs, low admission standards, bogus faux college courses ensure ongoing promotion, the awarding of worthless degrees to the 'protected class' subculture. A majority of these (college) graduates possess third grade reading skills, cannot solve elemental math problems, possess little if any viable cognitive abilities. Thankfully, new technology recognizes the academic sham of college, now administers objective testing systems to award 'credentials' to those (actually) able to think, function in modernity. And yes, this new system will necessary have disparate impact on the protected class. And all the usual suspects will cry foul, clamor for entitlement policies. The past is not prologue. Welcome to the real world.
7
'Protected class' subculture. Uh huh. Got it.
6
As a hiring manager you are correct. It is simply impossible to find enough young graduates with analytical skills, cognitive reasoning, and critical thinking skills. Now if they gave a computer, which everyone does now, they can Google an answer, or compute a number. But what that number means and how it relates to the business is another matter, abd applying the googled answer is difficult for them. And, yikes, many only print, they don't know cursive.
Our society has been led to the edge of the cliff of disaster and our corrupt leaders and government are pushing as hard as they can.
Our society has been led to the edge of the cliff of disaster and our corrupt leaders and government are pushing as hard as they can.
3
government...irrelevant
value of college degree...diluted
low admission standards...worthless degrees
graduates possess third grade reading skills...
new technology recognizes... sham
These are all delusions.
value of college degree...diluted
low admission standards...worthless degrees
graduates possess third grade reading skills...
new technology recognizes... sham
These are all delusions.
4
Now that 1/6 of the 21st century is history, it seems appropriate that we stop re-arguing the conflicts of the 20th century. Overdue, in fact.
5
Those who are ignorant of their own history are bound to repeat mistakes rather than learn from them.
"This election is a hint of one way things could turn next: a new split between the beneficiaries of multicultural globalism and the working-class ethnonationalists who feel left behind economically and culturally."
This analysis completely ignores how minorities, both with higher education and those without, still seem solidly Democratic.
This analysis completely ignores how minorities, both with higher education and those without, still seem solidly Democratic.
9
We should stop adding insult to injury to people who are genuinely suffering for lack of opportunity in the labor market whether they are educated or uneducated. Donald Trump nailed the issues. His biggest downfall was not sticking to them.
11
It's difficult when the suffering people can't seem to see that Trump's part of the problem; that he's thrown people like themselves to the wolves before and undoubtedly will again. It's also difficult when they consider that their suffering gives them the right to abandon basic human decency and turn on their fellow human beings. Not all of us suffering from the same problems feel entitled to behave that way.
What has Donald ever stuck to, other than exploitation and self-aggrandizement?
What has Donald ever stuck to, other than exploitation and self-aggrandizement?
21
Unfortunately, neither political party is doing the country any favors in this regard. On the one side you have Trump promising that millions of manufacturing jobs will return and harkening back to the "golden age" of coal, which was probably in the late 19th century. On the other side, you have Clinton promising everyone a college education for free. Commentators here tout wind and solar as some sort of environmental and economic panacea, when for one, the extractive processes to make photovoltaics are equally destructive. The unfortunate truth is that we are in the 21st century and like it or not, the rest of the world is catching up and more importantly, technology is a great displacer. What needed to be done by 20 or even 50 people can now be done by 1 or 2 people with the aid of massive automation.
Check out the recent article in the Times about server farms - massive automotive factory sized building that can be run by a handful of people. Automation in the driving industry hasnt even hit but is right around the corner. In this kind of world, what are the millions to be unemployed to do? Everyone wont be able to code or make/service robots. I have no solutions here, but I wish that our politicians discuss these issues honestly and pragmatically instead of pandering to their base with starry-eyed promises that wont materialize.
Check out the recent article in the Times about server farms - massive automotive factory sized building that can be run by a handful of people. Automation in the driving industry hasnt even hit but is right around the corner. In this kind of world, what are the millions to be unemployed to do? Everyone wont be able to code or make/service robots. I have no solutions here, but I wish that our politicians discuss these issues honestly and pragmatically instead of pandering to their base with starry-eyed promises that wont materialize.
25
Our leaders and government are too self interested to be thinkers. They are tied to so many interest groups with demands for favors they spend their time and energy on how to please the money folks so they can stay in office. It's ridiculous, gotta get the money out.
6
Guaranteed income and healthcare.
5
This is why Donald Trump--and the GOP by extension--"love the poorly educated."
10
This attitude may stem from the earliest days of disliking the smart girl in the front of the class who always had her hand up first and usually with the correct answer. HRC fits this to a tee. The same dissing of meritocracy did not apply to the strong, skilled, brazen male athlete in the class, who was applauded. Thus having the 'smart girl' accede to the highest office in the land which has always been a male bastion is just too painful to comprehend.
29
Should it be a surprise that anyone who treasures critical thinking, employs fact based decision making, reads for both enlightenment and entertainment, and values educational attainment balks at the idea of supporting someone that openly mocks those very ideals. The sad part is we honestly don't know if these are his true principles (although even his own "autobiographer Tony Schwartz has implied as much...) or merely playing to a core for whom these are. Sounds like another false equivalency to me. There's no way I can be convinced that we should concede the principles that until know have been the foundation of our nations success.
11
if there's no culture war, what would you call the fight over the Supreme Court nominee and who gets to control it? There has been a tremendous effort to use this to draw votes for/against. It may not be a traditional culture war but given the indoctrination of the old cultural fights into our legal system, the war is now used to look into a permanent cultural nightmare (depending on the victor). In some ways, this is a more powerful fight since laws are incredibly hard to overturn on the federal level.
9
Perhaps uneducated Whites would be more open to the policies of the Democratic Party if they were approached with greater respect from the Left. Is anyone surprised that uneducated Whites are unreceptive to individuals who castigate them as being inherently racist and incompetant? Would any reasonable person expect Latinos to view Trump favorably after he stereotyped them all as being rapists and criminals?
13
The issues raised on the topic of the amount of education related to voting are interesting. However, we know people without college degrees who can engage in lively, intelligent conversations. They are able to view political positions from both sides because they read newspapers (like the intelligent reporting in the New York Times & Washington Post and avoiding FOX news! ). What bothers me the most are educated people who are narrow-minded and fodder for the Trump Camp. For example, until a few months ago Trump was pro-choice. Now, to attract the Catholic vote, he is anti-abortion! Well educated "religious voters" and clergy fall for this shift. It doesn't take a college degree to see his clever move. Do take time to write to your local paper to warn voters about this clever Trumpism shift.
7
The white working class voyer probably take the same issue with too many liberals generalizing them ALL as dumb racists, the same way we African-Americans take offense at be generalized as crime-ridden and dependency minded by conservative party members. No one likes to see themselves dismissed as social failures, or something to be pitied. I don't see myself becoming a Republican, but I also don't see myself returning to the Democratic Party. Is it possible to gentrify a political party so that it becomes a place where only those of the same socio-economic background get a voice, while those they choose to condescend to occassionally get to whisper? The Democratic power structure should be as ashamed as the Republicans of this presidential election.
15
For decades the GOP has waged a war on education, higher education, & knowledge. In education, their embrace of charter schools & other for-profit pseudo educational entities helps ensure that poor school districts (read mostly minority) will continue to receive less money than their suburban and exurban counterparts. This is also exacerbated when cutting funding to Head Start.
The war on higher education is obvious. Opposition to race-based admissions, & basically making inexpensive subsidized loans & Pell grants an anomaly while allowing private lenders to flourish in the space. This hurts students of all races who don't have well off families.
The war on knowledge is a daily occurrence that includes climate change denial, obfuscation on foreign affairs, & willfully misleading about the role of government, government power & on the Constitution.
Combined these efforts have lead to blacks & Latinos not getting the education & educational opportunities to become more successful than previous generations, & have kept blue collar white kids less than blue collar in many cases. This ensures minorities fail to gain economic power which often translates to political power, & ensures that poor whites stay that way, which inures to the benefit of the right wing agenda. My parents were blue collar, albeit Democrats. Had I not gotten a college education, I would have likely been a staunch Republican. Low knowledge, low educated whites are the GOP's bread and butter.
The war on higher education is obvious. Opposition to race-based admissions, & basically making inexpensive subsidized loans & Pell grants an anomaly while allowing private lenders to flourish in the space. This hurts students of all races who don't have well off families.
The war on knowledge is a daily occurrence that includes climate change denial, obfuscation on foreign affairs, & willfully misleading about the role of government, government power & on the Constitution.
Combined these efforts have lead to blacks & Latinos not getting the education & educational opportunities to become more successful than previous generations, & have kept blue collar white kids less than blue collar in many cases. This ensures minorities fail to gain economic power which often translates to political power, & ensures that poor whites stay that way, which inures to the benefit of the right wing agenda. My parents were blue collar, albeit Democrats. Had I not gotten a college education, I would have likely been a staunch Republican. Low knowledge, low educated whites are the GOP's bread and butter.
16
The other fascinating correlation is that the percentage of women in the better colleges/universities continues to rise and is approaching 60% in many places. Women have been focused on academically in elementary school and high school, leading to gains in college. Boys are being left behind. We need to find a way to focus on boys' education without limiting women's education.
7
How does this fit in with the redmapping redistricting scheme in republican states?
5
I have had the opportunity to travel to several states this fall and if I had to predict how states would vote solely on the signs I saw, it would be as follows:
New Hampshire - landslide for Trump
Iowa - definitely Clinton
Alabama - Clinton
North Dakota - election not happening there, they may secede to Canada
Florida - Trump
Georgia - toss up
Now of course I realize that this has a lot to do with the particular location of the states I was in such as rural vs. urban and near a university. My point is that there is no such thing as purely red or blue states but they are all varying shades of purple!
New Hampshire - landslide for Trump
Iowa - definitely Clinton
Alabama - Clinton
North Dakota - election not happening there, they may secede to Canada
Florida - Trump
Georgia - toss up
Now of course I realize that this has a lot to do with the particular location of the states I was in such as rural vs. urban and near a university. My point is that there is no such thing as purely red or blue states but they are all varying shades of purple!
3
Maybe I missed it . . . or maybe not. Sexism might have just a tad to do with all of this?
7
Interesting, I am a professional with 3 college degrees and I oppose Clinton. That's not to say I support Trump. My opposition to Clinton is based on my liberal arts education (before such an education was hijacked by political correctness) and experience in having worked for over 10 years in information security and classification in the federal government. Thank you.
13
In real life, the choice actually boils down to Clinton or Trump as U.S. president for the next four years. Surely that information is available to you...
7
What has become crystal clear is that when a dangerous imbecile like Trump starts spouting lie after lie -The only way an individual would know they are blatant misrepresentaions of real facts is if you can discriminate between the credible and non credible media sources and pundits supporting those facts.
That requires the ability to weigh evidence and have some spectrum of choices for analysis.
It's not brain surgery BUT definitely a bridge to far for undisciplined minds.
The divide IS definitely between those that can read and engage in nuanced thinking and analysis and those who accept any information, from any sources, that reinforce their emotions - as gospel.
That divide is bridged by better education and all the factors that create an environment for that education and greater mental acuity (and even emotional equilibrium)
That requires the ability to weigh evidence and have some spectrum of choices for analysis.
It's not brain surgery BUT definitely a bridge to far for undisciplined minds.
The divide IS definitely between those that can read and engage in nuanced thinking and analysis and those who accept any information, from any sources, that reinforce their emotions - as gospel.
That divide is bridged by better education and all the factors that create an environment for that education and greater mental acuity (and even emotional equilibrium)
7
There has always been a political divide between the educated and the under-educated. But in the past, the economic divide was less severe, and consequently, the political divide was much less relevant. Most high school graduates could earn a very comfortable living with lifetime employment and a defined benefit pension. That is no longer the case. People in distress follow anyone who says he or she can fix their problems. In this election, Trump promises jobs by rolling back globalization, which appeals to the under-educated, not because they're stupid, but because they believe decreasing globalization will help them get good jobs. Clinton proposes greatly expanded pre-K and college funding, which appeals to the educated, not because they're stupid, but because it supports their particular lifestyle and their view of the importance of education. My guess is that the under-educated don't see much value (relatively speaking) in Clinton's education proposals, and the Clinton supporters don't see much value (relatively speaking) in providing the old-fashioned "good" jobs if the price is damage to globalization and having Trump in the White House. It's not that the under-educated rabidly oppose Clinton's education proposals nor do Clinton's supporters oppose "good" jobs. Simply speaking, each voter looks to what is most important to him or her, and in this election the educated/under-educated divide plays an out-sized role.
7
I wouldn't say that Hillary is "struggling" with less educated voters - I think the issue is that the world is more complex than it has ever been and these voters don't understand our legal system, our electoral system, journalism, trade issues, the deficit, taxation, the Fed, NATO, the U.N., cyber espionage, immigration, counter-terrorism, nuclear policy, diplomacy, the Geneva conventions, or the Constituion.
7
The topics listed inform "well-roundedness". In this economy, higher education is useful and valuable in direct relation to the skills acquired. Understanding the complexity of the world is welcome with regard to the greater good and secondary to how to get that job that pays 40 or more thousand dollars per year. Bernie appealed the the "degreed" who, like Trumpers, lack the skills for that job paying 40 or more thousand dollars. The Democrats may face an insurrection similar to this years GOP when higher education alone is no longer associated with a good paying job.
1
Why would anyone reasonably expect white working class men to vote for Hillary Clinton? Did anyone even hear her say the word "men" in last night's debate? Of course she's the only rational choice this time, but she's very lucky to be running against the Donald. She has not one word to say to, or for, working men. As my wife mentioned this morning, for Hillary, it's always "women, children, families, and gays." End of story.
7
I really appreciate the analysis, Nate, but I think it is overlooking the elephant in the room...That Mrs. Clinton is female and a former first lady. We can look at her "likability", etc. etc. etc. and other things that may maker her unpalatable to certain white voters without a college degree, but her gender is definitely a big part of why these same voters are reluctant to choose her. This bias has been borne out by the number of these voters who are supporting Mr. Trump, whose misogynistic attitude towards women has been a key issue for him in this election. How many of these white voters are white men who would never voter for an "uppity" woman...someone who is better educated than they are AND who is aspiring above her "class" (girls should marry powerful men, like, say, the president...not go after their roles!). And how much of the criticism of Mrs. Clinton has been based on the fact that she is a woman?
11
There's a lot of wisdom packed into a short joke popular on social media a few years ago:
A white worker, a black worker and a CEO are seated at a table when a plate of 12 cookies is served. The CEO immediately takes all of the cookies. Then he leans over and whispers to the white worker, "Watch out for that black guy. He wants to steal your crumbs."
A white worker, a black worker and a CEO are seated at a table when a plate of 12 cookies is served. The CEO immediately takes all of the cookies. Then he leans over and whispers to the white worker, "Watch out for that black guy. He wants to steal your crumbs."
18
Nate Cohn's analysis may be correct as far as it goes - and that there may well be a clear divide in voting preferences that can be ascertained by looking at voters' education levels, especially among white males. However, I don't think it goes far enough. There are also noticeable divides along the lines of age, sex, ethnicity, and the urban/rural split. Mr. Cohn briefly touches on some of those divides but doesn't dig very deep. Further, I think that Clinton and, especially, Trump are relatively anomalous candidates and it will take at least one or two more elections before a clear trend - if there is one - emerges.
7
I'm going to try to say this without being too offensive to the target audience - who don't read the Times anyway: the candidate you support is far less likely to do anything about your problems than the candidate you hate. Trump, for all his rhetoric, doesn't give a fig for the working class. To him they are pawns to be used and cast aside. Clinton may not be the most tactful person, but she understands far better the problems of the working class and the solutions which will help them in the long run.
Trump is adept at using a person's prejudices to recruit them to his side, but a vote for Trump will have a lower payout ratio than the slot machine in one of his casinos. He can inflame passions, but underneath he has no solutions, or interest in anything other than Donald Trump.
Like the Platte River, Trump a mile wide and an inch deep. He has great appeal to those who never read the Constitution and who are ready to believe any huckster or snake oil salesman who tells them their problems are all someone else's fault. And decades of under-funded public education have allowed him to rise to the top of the anti-intellectual Republican Party. Will this finally bring about the end of that once-august institution? We can only hope so, for that party certainly deserves it.
Trump is adept at using a person's prejudices to recruit them to his side, but a vote for Trump will have a lower payout ratio than the slot machine in one of his casinos. He can inflame passions, but underneath he has no solutions, or interest in anything other than Donald Trump.
Like the Platte River, Trump a mile wide and an inch deep. He has great appeal to those who never read the Constitution and who are ready to believe any huckster or snake oil salesman who tells them their problems are all someone else's fault. And decades of under-funded public education have allowed him to rise to the top of the anti-intellectual Republican Party. Will this finally bring about the end of that once-august institution? We can only hope so, for that party certainly deserves it.
15
Trump was able to win the nomination because he, unlike his opponents, promised to do something about his supporters' economic straits. Mainstream Republicanism has done exactly zero for the working class. Trump has awakened them to this reality, even though he has no plan for remedying their plight.
It is very likely that the Republican nominee in 2020 will lose this last demographic: working class whites. Sheldon Addison and the Koch brothers will continue to fund the Republican candidate, but who will actually vote for him?
It is very likely that the Republican nominee in 2020 will lose this last demographic: working class whites. Sheldon Addison and the Koch brothers will continue to fund the Republican candidate, but who will actually vote for him?
6
The irony is that Trump decimated Atlantic City where working class whites held sway. He doesn't pay federal taxes. He hires undocumented immigrants, marries a high school undocumented immigrant, and manufactures his clothing lines in Asia! So much for "making America great again!" Unfortunately, working class white folks continue to vote against their own economic interests. Such is the advantage of white privilege!
66
The Midwest, where Hilary is not doing as well as Obama, has lost huge numbers of well paying manufacturing jobs to globalization without really replacing them with good paying jobs. It is easy to say that one should go back to school and change jobs but it is hard to do when one is middle-aged (especially for those who never went to college in the first place). Trump seems to have successfully articulated the frustrations of this group of people without of course offering any real solutions.
This situation is likely to get worse with new advances in technology and likely to impact other regions. For example, self driving cars and trucks are likely to create joblessness among drivers ( truck, car, Uber etc). No politician is able to articulate where the replacement jobs are likely to come from - not everybody can be or should be a programmer or a medical technician. A good job not only provides an income to live in but also psychological well being, social standing.
This inability to foresee or plan for jobs for a large population without college degrees is the tragedy of our times.
This situation is likely to get worse with new advances in technology and likely to impact other regions. For example, self driving cars and trucks are likely to create joblessness among drivers ( truck, car, Uber etc). No politician is able to articulate where the replacement jobs are likely to come from - not everybody can be or should be a programmer or a medical technician. A good job not only provides an income to live in but also psychological well being, social standing.
This inability to foresee or plan for jobs for a large population without college degrees is the tragedy of our times.
46
The tragedy, no, Rather the stupidity. Bill Clinton supported NAFTA, true, but he also wanted to increase the average educational level of the American labor force from 12 to 14 years. NAFTA was introduced, but nothing was done to upgrade the labor force. The lamentable result is a world in which the American worker is poorly educated and expensive relative to labor on offer elsewhere in the world. It did not have to be this way. Stupidity was responsible.
7
The liberal commentators here who are so contemptuous of ‘ignorant, racist’ Trump supporters voting against their own economic interests may want to read George Orwell’s 'Road to Wigam Pier'. Orwell a socialist himself, tried to analyze why English miners often voted against socialist parties. He felt cultural condescension of the socialist elites alienated the miners. Orwell railed against "All that dreary tribe of high-minded women and sandal-wearers and bearded fruit-juice drinkers who come flocking towards the smell of ‘progress’ like bluebottles to a dead cat". A bit strong language perhaps. But the Democratic Party since mid-eighties has retreated from economic liberalism (with the Clintons playing a significant role) of FDR and LBJ and instead has embraced cultural liberalism.
51
What you have provided is merely an explanation as to why Trump supporters are ignorant and racist, not a refutation of any kind. I think there is something to your point, in the same way that Adolf Hitler rose to power fashioning himself as someone who was an outsider speaking up for ordinary, hard pressed Germans.
3
You nail it, Surajit. I'm an old-school Leftist, not a Kumbaya identity-politics liberal. Working people have been deserted by the modern Meritocracy, from both Left and Right.
The mainstream GOP benefits more from the support of wealthy Libertarians like the Koch Brothers and conservatives CEOs in various industries than from Trump's base. Democrats have the academic and Hi-Tech executives giving generously. Union support is simply taken for granted.
Workers without college degrees, and for that matter, many with them but working in fields like I.T. or the service sector need non-Marxist and non-Fascist leadership. I just do not, however, see an FDR, Teddy Roosevelt, or Dwight Eisenhower anywhere around here today.
The mainstream GOP benefits more from the support of wealthy Libertarians like the Koch Brothers and conservatives CEOs in various industries than from Trump's base. Democrats have the academic and Hi-Tech executives giving generously. Union support is simply taken for granted.
Workers without college degrees, and for that matter, many with them but working in fields like I.T. or the service sector need non-Marxist and non-Fascist leadership. I just do not, however, see an FDR, Teddy Roosevelt, or Dwight Eisenhower anywhere around here today.
5
Or you could say the Republican Party has clung to the Inherent superiority of straight, white, Christian men, while the Democratic Party advanced toward full equality. Do not underestimate tribalism.
However, I don't think "those people" are willing to resume their lesser status as the price of bringing back "FDR liberalism." FDR got national buy-in for his New Deal by ensuring that local officials could exclude people of color from most benefits. The New Deal did great good, but at a cost of terrible injustice. I'd like to believe we've changed enough since then, but I have serious doubts.
However, I don't think "those people" are willing to resume their lesser status as the price of bringing back "FDR liberalism." FDR got national buy-in for his New Deal by ensuring that local officials could exclude people of color from most benefits. The New Deal did great good, but at a cost of terrible injustice. I'd like to believe we've changed enough since then, but I have serious doubts.
4
Honestly, I feel bad for the working class whites. To have so much ripped away from you over just a few decades. There used to be a Cartoon Network show where the Dad was a toothpaste capper who made enough money to support a family of four. Can you imagine? Who wouldn't be angry to lose so much so fast?
You have to feel for people who have been left behind. High quality early education needs to be addressed for starters. Higher education must be free to create necessary labor for increased critical thinking jobs. Teachers need to be paid more. Obama did not address Education adequately and should have because "Inequality is bad for everyone"(Robert Reich)
11
How in the world are we to interpret the graph accompanying this article? What does it purport to measure? And what is the meaning of the vertical axis that goes from minus 20 to 10?
21
We seem to forget that not everyone is equally endowed with intellect and ability. College education is only offered to people who meet the basic requirements for matriculation. Those who have diminished cognitive ability are expected to engage in simple routine repetitive tasks for employment and income. As robots and computers continue to erode and enhance all tasks done by humans fewer humans are required for employment. SRRT's are one of the determining factors along with an IQ below 60 that represents the cut off between employable and disabled. SRRT's are most vulnerable to complete eradication by technological automation. As our economy is increasingly based in technology and requiring of higher skills and abilities, an IQ of 90 is far more accurate as a cut off for being disabled. As we become more demanding and less patient, the slow and low IQ but socially functional are marginalized, disenfranchised, and increasingly angry. There is indeed an elitism associated with education precisely because they know when they are being conned. Those with a lower IQ are easy prey for clever, immoral, college educated sociopaths and con men.
6
We also know that poverty in early life affects IQ -- exposure to toxins like lead, lack of brain-stimulating interactions. neglect, poor diet, untreated medical issues, and unstable, high-stress home environments.
We need to remedy these things for all our sakes -- what good is a penthouse if the rest of the building under it has rotted away from neglect?
We need to remedy these things for all our sakes -- what good is a penthouse if the rest of the building under it has rotted away from neglect?
10
Unfortunately, much of the white working class prefers a strongman rather the the hard work of building a 21st-century union movement. They want someone to come and rescue them, without having to do the heavy lifting themselves. Of course, this is a delusion. Trump won't help them any more than he helped the small army of electricians and other contractors he's stiffed over the years, along with the illegal aliens he's exploited and the manufacturing he's shipped overseas.
30
So now we are going to fight between intelligence and stupidity....
oh brother.....
oh brother.....
4
Living in a blue city in a solidly red state, I think there is a rural/urban dynamic that many are overlooking. It's less about educated vs. uneducated. A whole way of life, instead of fading quietly away, is going out with a bang. No one is putting their start-up next to the grain elevator in a town with one stoplight.
18
Jamie, if an entrepreneur did that, it would mean more blue islands. Yes, the urban folks would have to adjust to bad coffee and a lack of Yoga studios. But isn't it the duty of the better-off to be leaders? Not just takers? One way to be a leader is to help those left behind.
I've read in The Atlantic about high-tech manufacturing starting up in solidly Red South Carolina. Give rural workers with a good work-ethic the training, and they'll work as hard as their WW II grandparents.
I've read in The Atlantic about high-tech manufacturing starting up in solidly Red South Carolina. Give rural workers with a good work-ethic the training, and they'll work as hard as their WW II grandparents.
6
I don't disagree with you by any means. In my (small) city, we do have start-ups moving here. In Sioux Falls we are begging for workers, we're at just a little above 2% unemployment. My husband and I have a bookstore/gift store in a historic building, with a loft above. We pay well above minimum wage and so do our neighbors. Our downtown is bustling! Pretty much everyone that's employable has a job or two. The rural areas surrounding though, and the rest of the state really, is Trump country. There are hundreds of towns that have nothing but bars and grain elevators. No grocery stores, no doctors, maybe a gas station, sometimes no school of their own. These can be desperate places. With easy access to the ingredients for making meth, because agriculture is the biggest employer in the state, it is a scary place sometimes.
My husband and I have talked about how if you got enough people together with like minds, you could take over a town. Make it an artist colony or whatever you want. It's a blank canvas, ready for something to happen.
My husband and I have talked about how if you got enough people together with like minds, you could take over a town. Make it an artist colony or whatever you want. It's a blank canvas, ready for something to happen.
16
Also, we have less than a million people in this state.
I think educated people support Democrats, because they have better employment opportunities over a lifetime, and not because they read philosophy in college.
If you live in the I-95 corridor, the communities show growth and opportunities for education. If you live in small towns in the industrial heartland, your employment opportunities are limited. So it is "smart" for people with less opportunity to support Trump and "smart" for people with more opportunity to support Clinton.
If the last eight years have been good for you, you support the status quo, which means voting for the party in power.
Of course, if you are educated, and have investments, you understand that promising 5 percent growth is hogwash. Clinton appeals to people who can follow a policy paper. Obama and Romney split those voters.
If you live in the I-95 corridor, the communities show growth and opportunities for education. If you live in small towns in the industrial heartland, your employment opportunities are limited. So it is "smart" for people with less opportunity to support Trump and "smart" for people with more opportunity to support Clinton.
If the last eight years have been good for you, you support the status quo, which means voting for the party in power.
Of course, if you are educated, and have investments, you understand that promising 5 percent growth is hogwash. Clinton appeals to people who can follow a policy paper. Obama and Romney split those voters.
13
What can you do about these folks? They don't believe in science. They ridicule people who know a foreign language, they don't engage in critical analysis by listening to varying opinions, they mistrust everyone who is not of their tribe, they succumb to conspiracy theorists. And they think they're smarter than everyone else. To top it all off they see themselves as victims because everyone else doesn't acknowledge their superiority.
29
Prosperity erases the anger and numbs the cultural effects of ignorance.
These folks have plenty of circuses. They need bread.
These folks have plenty of circuses. They need bread.
13
Interesting statistics. And yet, you didn't mention another factor in our macho-society: the acceptance that a woman can be as good, or better, than a man, to lead the country, to restore credibility in our democratic institutions, with advanced knowledge, and experience, to prove her point (s). Of course, crooked lying Trump is vastly inferior to Hillary in all. I repeat, in all aspects of civility, demeanor, decency and knowledge. The only thing demagogue Trump has an edge on are his by now famous temper-tantrums (when unable to get away with 'murder'). And, lest we forget, a bully is always a coward in disguise. It is easy to see why uneducated folks, and the prejudices it entails, will buy into his absolute nonsense of fear and hate, of imminent doom...unless he, the populist 'savior', is elected. Gender may yet represent one of our biggest 'blind spots'; to our loss and shame.
11
I agree the title to this article is deceptive. It discusses the blue and red educational divide among white men but not among the entire population. I think that Trump is appealing to people that maybe never voted before; people who have harbored their prejudice views and are now seeing someone who speaks like them for the first time in a long time. However, comparing our country to what is happening in Europe is short sited. The countries in the Western Hemisphere, including the United States, have never been white. We have, since inception, been multicultural. We are just now, in the past 50 years, starting to try to include everyone. Please don't compare us to Europe. We are not a European nation.
3
Next time you might encourage your graphics designer to label the Y-axis in graphs like this. From context it appears to measure the difference in the percent Democrat versus the percent Republican, but one should never need to use context to understand a graph.
11
I remember when the unions were strong in this country, and were almost completely white, without college education, and 100 percent Democratic voters. I don't recal reading the vile denigrating comments about them being stupid, uneducated, knuckle draggers at the time. Fast forward to the present, and now that these same people have left the Democratic plantation, they have become beneath contempt.
14
Well, let's see . . . when unions were strong in this country these folks all had jobs if they wanted 'em. Now, not so much. Wisconsin comes to mind as a place where the state government's agenda has decimated unions. And folks in that state voted in this administration.
Getting rid of the one institution that might protect you when your house is afire isn't exactly smart thinking, is it?
Getting rid of the one institution that might protect you when your house is afire isn't exactly smart thinking, is it?
8
They weren't complaining about being mistreated then. They were acting on their own behalf, through their unions and getting a good deal. When it looked like black people might get the same deal, they switched to union-busting, trickle-down Republicans like Reagan. And here we are...
9
If the only choices are "multicultural globalism" and a populist "white ethno-nationalism" the maps are bound to come out a certain way. But the truth of the matter is that, except for a thin layer of professionals of color, the neo-liberal globalism represented by Clinton has been just as bad for people of color as for white workers, and she is only winning the votes many workers of color because Trump so obviously represents an even greater danger. White racism remains the great obstacle to working class unity that it has always been and it frankly serves the interests of Clinton even more than it has Trump. The Sanders campaign suggested the possibility of a third alternative that many voters want even if it isn't on the ballot this November: democratic socialism. Just as the racists energized by Trump will not disappear in November, neither will the Sanderistas. Given a choice between Clinton, Trump and Sanders, most Americans would have voted for Sanders. Only the ridiculous process by which we select presidents deprived us of that choice.
7
Chris, we'll never know that Sanders would have won. The Republicans were practically begging the Dems to nominate him instead of Clinton, and I have no doubt they knew what they were doing.
I liked Sanders fine, but objectively, I saw he had serious personal baggage beyond the socialist label that no one brought up in the primaries. It would certainly have come back to bite him in the general election, spun for devastating effect in national headlines. His devoted supporters often think Clinton deserved what she got, and can't imagine Bernie subjected to that kind of vitriol, but the the Republican character shredder is pitiless -- remember John Kerry. Clinron has been handling the onslaught for years; it's become background noise. Sanders is lucky to have escaped whatever swiftboats they had waiting for him.
We don't want you to disappear in November! How else can progressives compete in local and state elections? And Congress, as important as the Presidency. Bernie can do more as a Senator to push the entire political spectrum back to the left, than he could do within the constraints of the Presidency. Let Clinton take the heat while Bernie inspires us.
I liked Sanders fine, but objectively, I saw he had serious personal baggage beyond the socialist label that no one brought up in the primaries. It would certainly have come back to bite him in the general election, spun for devastating effect in national headlines. His devoted supporters often think Clinton deserved what she got, and can't imagine Bernie subjected to that kind of vitriol, but the the Republican character shredder is pitiless -- remember John Kerry. Clinron has been handling the onslaught for years; it's become background noise. Sanders is lucky to have escaped whatever swiftboats they had waiting for him.
We don't want you to disappear in November! How else can progressives compete in local and state elections? And Congress, as important as the Presidency. Bernie can do more as a Senator to push the entire political spectrum back to the left, than he could do within the constraints of the Presidency. Let Clinton take the heat while Bernie inspires us.
10
When I started university I was taken aback by how much I didn't know. It was exhilarating. Post-secondary education develops intangibles like the ability to think critically, and I think this explains why non-college educated audiences are so vulnerable to exploitation by a Pied Piper like Trump.
17
But why are the college educated so vulnerable to exploitation? Believing the Uncollege crowd lack curiosity. The uneducated white corking class that were cool enough and aware enough and open minded enough for Obama.
3
I'm a Trump voter, old white guy, with enough degrees to move the cumulative average of degrees upwards from where it is, for my entire cohort, non-degreed white codgers coots geezers and oldsters,
('vote early vote often and leave that pesky voter ID home')
I still expect Trump to win, although the Never Trump cadres on the Right, and their circular firing squad, have caught some of us in the cross fire, and may yet prevail, more KoolAid lemmings
I think people lie and deny about supporting Trump, for fear not shame; we had some commentary of late on voter intimidation
Turnout is key, and that we do not know, 'likely voters' is a pollster construct, demographic 'bucketing,' deplorable or otherwise might not tell all
I do expect a 'come to Jesus (oops) moment' at Never Trump but the most pronounced of that suicidal movement, founded at Bill Buckley's mag, National Review, have dug in ('when you are in a hole, first thing, stop digging'),
And the down-ballot RinoSaurs who could not make their case to their own local audience, in the Pub primaries, all 16 of them, could not run and win unopposed, so maybe we can print some bumper stickers
"Never RINO"
Dewey Wins
('vote early vote often and leave that pesky voter ID home')
I still expect Trump to win, although the Never Trump cadres on the Right, and their circular firing squad, have caught some of us in the cross fire, and may yet prevail, more KoolAid lemmings
I think people lie and deny about supporting Trump, for fear not shame; we had some commentary of late on voter intimidation
Turnout is key, and that we do not know, 'likely voters' is a pollster construct, demographic 'bucketing,' deplorable or otherwise might not tell all
I do expect a 'come to Jesus (oops) moment' at Never Trump but the most pronounced of that suicidal movement, founded at Bill Buckley's mag, National Review, have dug in ('when you are in a hole, first thing, stop digging'),
And the down-ballot RinoSaurs who could not make their case to their own local audience, in the Pub primaries, all 16 of them, could not run and win unopposed, so maybe we can print some bumper stickers
"Never RINO"
Dewey Wins
2
I'll bet Ben Carson has a few sheepskins in his office. Doesn't make him smart, does it?
4
I have two graduate degrees and I wouldn't vote for a corrupt person like Clinton even if she were running unopposed.
7
I have three. Who's the last honest politician you voted for?
3
You must mean high IQ v. low IQ when you say "college educated" v. working class. The truth is, we are talking about smart people against not-so-smart people. College grads have had an average IQ of 115 since we started recording such things. The "average" American, the "working class," has an IQ of 100. That is the real difference in whether one supports Trump or Clinton.
2
I believe it is an in-correct analysis to directly equate less education with Republican support. Similar to Brexit, the segments of society most affected by globalization, trade deals, and social policy logically are not happy and feel increasingly ignored. Blue collar manufacturing is a shadow of once it once was along with the middle class security it brought for many.
3
Maybe the 'deplorables' have just been paying attention to the fact that Hillary says different things to Wall St. than she does to Main St....and Main St. hasn't done so well since about the 1980s...so it's not too hard guessing which audience Hillary sis more sincere in talking to ...after all...very, very few of us would ever make it into one of her fundraisers
...so unless you happen to work for a big hedge fund...I would argue that it is the degree-toting left that is voting against their economic interests. And how could any self-respecting leftist vote for a candidate that supports trade agreements that allow corporations to sue governments that enact laws to protect their workers and the environment? Very weird sort of 'leftist' running around out there these days.
Given that most of the degrees handed out these days aren't worth the paper they're printed on...I think it's time to re-evaluate the perceived intelligence of 'non-degree whites' (the new euphemism for 'white trash' I presume)
Hillary has made it abundantly clear that they stand to gain precious little from her sitting in the White House. You don't call people 'deplorable' if you are sincere about protecting their interests.
...so unless you happen to work for a big hedge fund...I would argue that it is the degree-toting left that is voting against their economic interests. And how could any self-respecting leftist vote for a candidate that supports trade agreements that allow corporations to sue governments that enact laws to protect their workers and the environment? Very weird sort of 'leftist' running around out there these days.
Given that most of the degrees handed out these days aren't worth the paper they're printed on...I think it's time to re-evaluate the perceived intelligence of 'non-degree whites' (the new euphemism for 'white trash' I presume)
Hillary has made it abundantly clear that they stand to gain precious little from her sitting in the White House. You don't call people 'deplorable' if you are sincere about protecting their interests.
8
Only someone who does not value education and knowledge would think that most degrees aren't worth the paper they are printed on. There is a reason why the income gap between those with a college degree and those without one is so large and still growing - employers, whose success depends on the quality of the workers they hire, pick the better educated workers over un- or under-educated voters given the choice. So I guess those degrees are worth something, eh?
6
Why do the college educated tend to vote Democrat? Simple. A young person entering any American college will take humanities courses in philosophy,literature ,history,the social sciences, all taught by strongly left leaning Democrats. It is impossible that they should emerge from this experience ideologically untouched. They will read no conservative writers,will be told without respite that America is racist,phobic and imperialist. They will learn to keep their mouths shut. All this I well know as a recently retired conservative academic of forty plus years---the only Republican in a department of twenty-two professors.
5
An alternative explanation is that learning how to think logically results in conservative ideology making no sense.
25
An alternative - and more plausible - explanation is that educated voters have better comprehension and analytical skills and can see through the baloney to figure out which candidate would better watch out for their interests. And they, quite likely, value personal freedoms, respect for science and knowledge, fairness, and economic justice that align more closely with Democratic party platforms.
6
OMG, Rob! You trickster you! I was with you until you went off track into the same conspiracy land of the Trump supporters. I think most would admit that it's more likely that all of that coursework opened up their minds to different perspectives, more critical thinking, a better ability to look at all sides of an issue and have a more global perspective. They don't call it a "liberal arts"education for nothing!
3
I saw the comment on the rise of Scott Walker in Wisconsin. I live in a rural area of upstate NY. It's the same here. I watched other kid's parents as mine were growing up denigrating education, no truck with the "elites". I now watch the children of those people drive rusting, falling apart pickups working 2, 3 or even 4 minimum wage jobs. A bunch are already married with children. They've almost all got Trump lawn signs and bumper stickers. Thankfully NY is not Wisconsin (yet), but looking at the people and counties of upstate; Catskills, Adirondacks, Central, Western and the Southern Tier the degree of poverty and lack of good paying jobs endemic to those regions is simply fuel for the Trump fire. It's not for the lack of hard working people, it's the lack of an educated workforce. The anger and this divide is driven by hopelessness and the fact that they really can't seem to connect the dots. In some cases, people desperately want their kids to stay near them - even when that effectively destroys their children's futures. It's becoming a never ending circle of misery and poverty that's really invisible to the urban and suburban parts of NY.
30
right--this is the very area that Senator Hillary promised to help
1
Would you express the same vituperation towards members of the inner city ghetto, that are unemployed, have no vehicle, have several children, and are loyal Democratic voters? I'm guessing you think these folks are the salt of the earth.
4
What "vituperation"? What's written is a sad description of the state of affairs for much of upstate NY. Even Rochester is a shadow of what once was - it's giants Kodak and Xerox have a tiny fraction of their previous stake in that City. I also have seen where people pining for what once was can't adapt to the changes that have happened. Greene County continues to look for the "Resorts" to come back. Across the Hudson River from Catskill is Hudson. That has an active revitalization that's been ongoing for more than a decade. Upstate has gems, but those gems are in places with local governments that look forward, not backward. To a large extent that is their own fault, the election of local leaders who validate their myths doesn't help either. Understand, New York is a "home rule" state and there are limits to what State level resources can provide given the ability of a community to override and simply pass on it. A school district in Greene County fought a number of years ago to bring in an International Baccalaureate program. There was a very vocal group that associated that with the UN, lost sovereignty and other outright myths of the Right Wing. In more than one case upstate the best way to describe what has been happening is "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink" a too real truism in a great many parts of Upstate NY.
2
Those of us who are educated liberals need to acknowledge the real economic insecurity felt by White blue-collar workers. Thinking they are just uneducated rubes is not helpful, and makes them scorn us even more. They are facing income inequality, job insecurity, and an uncertain future. Sure, the rest of us are facing the same thing, but we may see it more in a global context -- that's the difference in having a broad-based education. But they have real concerns and fears; it's just unfortunate that people like Donald Trump exploit those concerns and fears and misdirect their anger to the wrong source.
37
What is baffling is how they arrive at the conclusion that Trump is the one who will do anything for them. What in his record or history suggests that?
6
Why don't the educated liberals acknowledge that the base of the Democratic Party, the large inner cities, are the most concentrated areas of uneducated in the country?
5
"Educated liberals" acknowledge that there is multi-generational poverty compounded by racial isolation in virtually all urban areas in the US. The fact is that it is a function of urban areas having higher population densities than rural areas, and of 63% of Americans living in urban areas. If anything, the situation faced by urban residents is attributable to the closing of businesses, loss of employment and tax base, lack of investment in infrastucture and schools, and isolation/distance from well-paid work. As is precisely the case in many rural areas.
1
The poorest fifth of Americans who also tend not to have a college degree support Democratic Party positions, according to some research. They just don't vote, and presumably are not counted in polls of likely voters. The Republican constituency with only a high school education is more likely by that analysis to be in the second to lowest quintile in income. Though perhaps poor, they live among people who have less income and security than themselves and say in surveys that such poorer people want handouts or rely on the government.
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_564fca49e4b0879a5b0b363f
It would be interesting if the upshot looked at all eligible and not just likely voters when analyzing our political divides. After all, it is within our collective power to increase voter participation.
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_564fca49e4b0879a5b0b363f
It would be interesting if the upshot looked at all eligible and not just likely voters when analyzing our political divides. After all, it is within our collective power to increase voter participation.
7
Well, it is sad that there is this divide. It has been a reality that those near the bottom have to find someone else to kick, and if not will kick the dog. These people also kick themselves. It is an emotional reaction and follows no logic except an expectation it will make them feel better to kick a woman, a black person or an immigrant, although they can kick also.
7
Yes, even people at the top, as in you know who....
Is it wise to leave the issue of gender and the fact of religion out of this analysis entirely? Could it be that people (both men and women) who fall into these categories are also more likely to lean on strict definitions of gender roles which state that a man leads a woman, a woman doesn't lead a man (based on scripture in the New Testament)? I've been to too many friends' weddings where those lines were read to think that this doesn't play a role, especially among men and women who are struggling to maintain or retain their dignity in an economy which has changed structurally and left many behind. "A woman isn't going to tell me what to do." After everything they've already been through, in their minds a woman president might just be one of the most demeaning things left for them to experience.
17
Beyond this demographic hair-splitting, Americans of all stripes want a president they can trust and one they believe is competent and out for the good of the country rather than personal aggrandizement. Whether with a college degree or not, voters can assess a candidate's qualifications using common sense and the savvy of life experience, Enough with dividing the country to create news to support the interests of the effete elite.
5
Those without college need a route to good jobs. Not every kid I teach should have gone to college.
And voters shut out in our meritocracy need a party to stand for them, but they need a sane candidate. FDR was such a champion, and so was Ike. This year? Voters who feel left out get a cartoon.
And voters shut out in our meritocracy need a party to stand for them, but they need a sane candidate. FDR was such a champion, and so was Ike. This year? Voters who feel left out get a cartoon.
17
"Those without college need a route to good jobs. Not every kid I teach should have gone to college."
I have never known an employer to seek out less educated help. Maybe it happens, but not in my experience.
I have never known an employer to seek out less educated help. Maybe it happens, but not in my experience.
1
For a very long time (since WWII?) is has been known that education is the key to a better life. Yes, there are a few entrepreneurs high school dropouts that have done well, but they are very unusual. The days of starting on the ground floor in a factory and working your way up are gone and they are not coming back. I work at a community college in CT and we have a manufacturing program that gives degrees and certificates. The graduates of this program start at $40,000 and quickly go up to $70,000. These skilled machinists have a 100% placement rate into CT companies and there is a waiting list to hire. But it is not a easy program, there is a lot of math and computer skills are needed. The students need tutoring and one-on-one help. For those that persists, a good job awaits. These programs need to be everywhere in America. And the American people need to acknowledge reality.
34
I hope those CT companies don't move their companies out of the country to save a buck, then what happens to the new machinist grads?
8
As one who was only the second person in my family to obtain a college education, I am saddened by many of my childhood friends who turned their back on any form of education beyond high school. I had to convince myself that I was capable of achieving an education after high school, and with the encouragement of my mother, I was able to do it. It was hard work, and I had to devote the free time when I wasn't working to studying. If I was able to do it, you can do it! Find the person who will encourage and support you ambition to get an education. And for goodness sake, avoid those who offer an easy pathway to a better life.
13
That's because working class whites have more to lose from Clinton's preference for more free trade pacts and continued de facto open borders.
It's really simple as that.
It's really simple as that.
9
Chloe, but how does that explain working-class black, Hispanic and Asian voters sticking with Clinton? Sorry, but tribalism is bigger than economics here. Otherwise, why would so many working-class white voters have supported Republicans, with their union-busting and hatred of Social Security, Medicare & regulations protecting workers?
If Republicans cared about the working class or securing borders, they'd make HIRING undocumented workers a crime, and jail a few rich white employers like Donald Trump. Instead, the GOP Congress just keeps stalling on reform and diverting blame to a bunch of destitute Mexicans instead of the white employers that are the GOP donor base.
If Republicans cared about the working class or securing borders, they'd make HIRING undocumented workers a crime, and jail a few rich white employers like Donald Trump. Instead, the GOP Congress just keeps stalling on reform and diverting blame to a bunch of destitute Mexicans instead of the white employers that are the GOP donor base.
17
Much of your analysis runs a very high probability of error simply because you fail to include sexism as a factor driving antipathy for Secretary Clinton. If sexism explains a similar degree of voters' rejettison as racism helped explain antipathy towards Pres. Obama, then controlling for sexism reveals she is one of the most popular candidates of either party during campaign season in many years. Thus it is not a "problem she has" but a reality she has overcome.
30
Having taught at a community college for years, I don't see how pushing everyone toward a college degree makes a lot of sense. Even vocational education is difficult in many respects... it often requires many math skills. Many students come to the community college environment with substandard educational backgrounds and hence the abysmally low graduation rate among these schools (generally 30 percent and lower).
What would make a great difference to white working-class males is a national jobs programs, but that will never happen again because the union demand for government jobs programs vanished with the New Deal. There's a tremendous need for infrastructure repair, but this is done piecemeal and is always in the hands of private business entities.
The elephant in the living room is the squandering of billions of dollars each year in foreign adventures that don't add any security domestically. Working class white males are among the supporters of the elite campaigns of the military-industrial alliance that only sometimes benefits the working class with jobs and produces nothing of value for domestic consumption.
What would make a great difference to white working-class males is a national jobs programs, but that will never happen again because the union demand for government jobs programs vanished with the New Deal. There's a tremendous need for infrastructure repair, but this is done piecemeal and is always in the hands of private business entities.
The elephant in the living room is the squandering of billions of dollars each year in foreign adventures that don't add any security domestically. Working class white males are among the supporters of the elite campaigns of the military-industrial alliance that only sometimes benefits the working class with jobs and produces nothing of value for domestic consumption.
73
Whoops: Should read "that doesn't add anything to domestic security."
11
"Even vocational education is difficult in many respects... it often requires many math skills".....
Then, isn't that all the more reason to push for a college education for everyone? Can't a good vocational education be a "college" experience as well? Wouldn't that benefit our economy and reduce the "divide" the article is talking about by creating the fundamentals for a more egalitarian society?
Then, isn't that all the more reason to push for a college education for everyone? Can't a good vocational education be a "college" experience as well? Wouldn't that benefit our economy and reduce the "divide" the article is talking about by creating the fundamentals for a more egalitarian society?
Infrastructure repair requires skilled tradespeople, each backed with expensive equipment, and skilled engineering supervision. The workers capable of functioning in such a work environment don't need a jobs program.
The Depression era projects I have noted consist mainly in building scenic trails through wilderness and the like. Workers were equipped with shovels, and slept in tents. Today's job seekers would not gain much from such a program.
The Depression era projects I have noted consist mainly in building scenic trails through wilderness and the like. Workers were equipped with shovels, and slept in tents. Today's job seekers would not gain much from such a program.
4
Looking at the Pew survey of last year, increasing educational attainment means an increasing lean toward Democrats including Democratic leaning independents. The widest gap is a 22 point advantage for Democrats is women with graduate degrees and 12 points for all college graduates. Republicans had those leads as recently as 1992. The trends are clear. Each year, educational attainment of the public is increasing and that does not bode well for Republicans.
9
The trust fund baby "billionaire" has managed to tap into both the resentment and the dreams of folks who feel screwed by the system. He picks up there resentments by blaming everyone else - immigrants, women, the "elite," (which is apparently what we call well educated, successful people no matter how they got there or where they came from), and non-Christians among others.
He taps into their dream by being the living breathing rich guy they'd all love to be. So, they applaud his not paying taxes, cause they'd love to figure that one out; see his business shenanigans as "smart" and support low taxes for rich guys because they hope to be one one day. Most of them will actually benefit more from programs and services people like Hillary support, but who wants to cheer over talk of what you need when you are struggling? It's much more energizing to cheer over someone who promises to fix everything and holds up the great and glorious dream of having it all someday.
He taps into their dream by being the living breathing rich guy they'd all love to be. So, they applaud his not paying taxes, cause they'd love to figure that one out; see his business shenanigans as "smart" and support low taxes for rich guys because they hope to be one one day. Most of them will actually benefit more from programs and services people like Hillary support, but who wants to cheer over talk of what you need when you are struggling? It's much more energizing to cheer over someone who promises to fix everything and holds up the great and glorious dream of having it all someday.
101
Spot on with your analysis but unfortunately Trump supporters won't listen to any of these points you've made.
5
" Most of them will actually benefit more from programs and services people like Hillary support, but who wants to cheer over talk of what you need when you are struggling?"
bingo!
bingo!
4
So, since supposedly educated voters mostly vote for Dems,
and Repubs are relegated to supposedly ignorant voters,
surely the Dems could have no objection at all to a universal requirement
that, in order to qualify to vote,
everyone must take a test measuring educational achievement,
such as the SAT or the ACT, and score a common minimum level on it.
If anyone trumps up a charge of some kind of bias in the SAT or ACT,
then a test such as the Singapore-GCE Ordinary Level could be used instead.
Just so that, in order to qualify to vote,
everyone must take the same test and score the same common minimum level.
How could the Dems possibly object?
and Repubs are relegated to supposedly ignorant voters,
surely the Dems could have no objection at all to a universal requirement
that, in order to qualify to vote,
everyone must take a test measuring educational achievement,
such as the SAT or the ACT, and score a common minimum level on it.
If anyone trumps up a charge of some kind of bias in the SAT or ACT,
then a test such as the Singapore-GCE Ordinary Level could be used instead.
Just so that, in order to qualify to vote,
everyone must take the same test and score the same common minimum level.
How could the Dems possibly object?
5
I believe that would be tantamount to a literacy test -- something deemed unconstitutional with the Voting Rights Act. See, we have enough education to know that.
2
I am not a Democrat, but my objection is that it's unconstitutional.
7
unconstitutional.
2
I think the working-class description should be dropped. That would include, let's say, 99% of these NYT commenters. Unless you're some trust fund baby or have amassed a fortune that rivals the GDP of a third-world nation, you probably fall in line with the wretched working-class. It's OK to lie to yourself, though. Maybe a blue-collar/white-collar split would be more appropriate. I don't know. I do know that this blue-collar non-college educated voter is writing in a candidate, while most of my college-educated friends are voting a straight Trump ticket. It's great to be pigeon-holed, though.
18
Truly and many Trump supporters are, if not from Trump's own demographic, from the conservative wing of the gentrified middle class from the Sunbelt and elsewhere that was at the core of the Tea Party. Like evangelicals, they are mostly not workers, but rather the classic social base of fascism, what one wag called "angry white guys in golf carts" who you often see on the highway in RVs with their cars in tow.
4
Unfortunately, lesser educated white men see themselves ever greater on the losing end of the stick. It was bad to accept a black but he was a "man" so that did not stick so bad with them. Now to have salt rubbed in the wound of the natural machismo of all these men who feel slightly neutered is more than they can handle after the brainwashing of NewsCorp and the GOP with the aid of the NRA. Then add in the decades old smear campaign against HRC, it is amazing that she is getting as much support as she is.
The biggest reason that they are staying in Trumps corner is that they are still feeding only at the Trump outlets; Fox, Hannity, O'Reilly, Limbaugh, WSJ, If HRC puts some bucks into hard hitting fact that can't be refuted on some ultra right outlets with a contract that the ads will not be downed by the host or adverse ads in a close segment, she will rise greatly. Tonight was a good show for her, now she needs to hit again at the heart of the enemy territory.
The biggest reason that they are staying in Trumps corner is that they are still feeding only at the Trump outlets; Fox, Hannity, O'Reilly, Limbaugh, WSJ, If HRC puts some bucks into hard hitting fact that can't be refuted on some ultra right outlets with a contract that the ads will not be downed by the host or adverse ads in a close segment, she will rise greatly. Tonight was a good show for her, now she needs to hit again at the heart of the enemy territory.
27
Wow. Pretty clear from your writing that you see the world through the filter of identity politics almost to the exclusion of everything else
Why do you presume the people voting for Trump feel 'emasculated'? Besides...thank God there are still some masculine people out there or there'd be no one around to change the oil or fix a flat.
It reveals more about your point of view than theirs that you ascribe all of their actions and thoughts to bigotry and prejudice.
Maybe they are aware of something that has escaped your attention?
Why do you presume the people voting for Trump feel 'emasculated'? Besides...thank God there are still some masculine people out there or there'd be no one around to change the oil or fix a flat.
It reveals more about your point of view than theirs that you ascribe all of their actions and thoughts to bigotry and prejudice.
Maybe they are aware of something that has escaped your attention?
1
"...now she needs to hit again at the heart of the enemy territory.¨
Well written, Mr. World Peace!
Well written, Mr. World Peace!
1
Right, and how many workers read the Wall St Journal? It's as much a civil war within the middle class as it is anything else.
1
Southern whites never supported labor unions, had low wages, and poor benefits. Never figured out why, but their ten percenters surely appreciated that they would work for minimum wages. And now they will vote for Trump.
Sad.
Sad.
42
Southern whites never supported labor unions because they feared unions would undermined Jim Crow/segregation, the ideology of White supremacy, and give Blacks access to economic empowerment. The late Senator Strom Thurmond, fought mightily to deny returning Black Word War II veterans any GI Bills benefits.
Southern whites choose to invest in whiteness instead of paying attention to public policy. Po', poor, working class, whites are reaping what they've sowed. As my grandfather (born 1895) use to say, "White people will drink water and eat beans to keep and prevent black people from getting anything."
When you dig graves for others, you must understand the ground you stand upon has been left unstable. The divide in the US is about the have and the have nots. Its a new day, a different century... you better make sure you have a plan that keeps yourself out the latter category.
Southern whites choose to invest in whiteness instead of paying attention to public policy. Po', poor, working class, whites are reaping what they've sowed. As my grandfather (born 1895) use to say, "White people will drink water and eat beans to keep and prevent black people from getting anything."
When you dig graves for others, you must understand the ground you stand upon has been left unstable. The divide in the US is about the have and the have nots. Its a new day, a different century... you better make sure you have a plan that keeps yourself out the latter category.
11
Tribalism. Better to be poor but superior than comfortable but equal.
6
We need to teach people HOW to think, not WHAT to think.
83
Trump wants to eliminate our relationships with our present European and Asian allies, leave NATO, drop the WTO, drop NAFTA but praises Putin as his best bud. Trump is setting us up for an invasion from Putin. Trump and Putin, you flip a coin, they are both friggin crazy.
19
I live in Wisconsin, and this division is what created Scott Walker. The less educated hicks hate "those darn elitists" in Madison because DERP, and they vote (against their self-interest) for Scott Walker. And then they need to see a cardiologist or oncologist, and suddenly they want that elite doctor who lives in Madison. It makes my teeth hurt. I used to be sympathetic, but when Walker and his GOP cronies went after the UW system and gutted the smaller two-year schools, all those hick communities finally noticed that, hey, the Koch-supported puppet governor doesn't care about their rural communities. Now, they're in a dissociative fugue, furious at "those libtards in Dane county," the area that leads the state in job growth because of educated elites, but materially suffering from the GOP's colossal mismanagement.
128
Mocking the "hicks" and how they supposedly speak is a sure winner. It amazes me that liberals are amazed at the resentment they engender.
3
Wisconsin is a good state to look at to see the class divisions. Trump is more popular in the counties where people are less educated and more rural and small town; Cruz had the conservatives in cities and suburbs. In Trump country, Wisconsin, there's resentment of the quality of schools in and around Madison and Milwaukee, yet they don't want to look at how their aggressive attack on teachers and public education has convinced teachers to flock to areas where they are respected and paid well (due in part to private fund raising for public schools and referendums that make up for state funding shortages). If you value education, show it, and listen to the "elites" who have figured out that education should be a top priority.
6
I can't say what drives the divide in your areas, but in mine (South Alabama), it is almost always race. The only exception is religion.
Whites vote Republican by about 90% at least. Balcks about 95% Democrat.
The whites here assume the only way a white man could vote Democrat must fall into certain catagories:
1. You must be an Athiest
2. You are likely gay
3. Worst slur of all in these parts: N---er Lover.
To them, there can be no other explanation. And you are likely to be ostracized. So most of us just keep quiet.
Sounds sad, but very true. But then, our state is very near the bottom when it comes to education.
Whites vote Republican by about 90% at least. Balcks about 95% Democrat.
The whites here assume the only way a white man could vote Democrat must fall into certain catagories:
1. You must be an Athiest
2. You are likely gay
3. Worst slur of all in these parts: N---er Lover.
To them, there can be no other explanation. And you are likely to be ostracized. So most of us just keep quiet.
Sounds sad, but very true. But then, our state is very near the bottom when it comes to education.
88
Perhaps the demographic factor is not so much one's college experience, but rather the level of exposure a person has to persons of different social, sexual and cultural backgrounds, education levels, wealth and ethnicity, ie. diversity. The States which appear to be solidly republican are generally rural, with sparce population centers spread out over long distances. The lack of exposure to diversity leads to the perpetuation of myths, stereotypes, and fear of the unknown. Even Arizona, which has for decades been solidly red, is now undergoing slow transformation due to the influx of former-Californians and new migrants.
Sadly, those regions of the country which remain locked in the grips of the GOP will continue to attract disenfranchised ultra right wing nationalists, neo-nazi sympathizers, survivalists and other high school and home-schooled whites.
Sadly, those regions of the country which remain locked in the grips of the GOP will continue to attract disenfranchised ultra right wing nationalists, neo-nazi sympathizers, survivalists and other high school and home-schooled whites.
34
True -- and college is often one of the places where people are exposed to more diversity than they meet in everyday life.
1
As a liberal Democrat, I acknowledge and am ashamed how ignorant and tone deaf I've been for a very long time to what a lot of people who don't live on the left and right coasts have faced for decades. I got lucky and landed a job in Silicon Valley in the early 80s. I was simply in the right place at the right time. Nothing more. I rode the desk-top PC revolution and then the second money-wave with the internet. I took the money and assumed that it was because I was so very smart. In reality, anyone could have done my job.
My liberal friends and I think Don the Con is a vile dictator in waiting. But, I'm stymied by his huge support. Why? You don't like the education your kids are getting, so you fire all the teacher, burn down the buildings, sow salt, and then plow the ashes under?
If you are one of Trump's people. . Do you really believe he will bring back coal miner jobs or relight the steel mills? Do you believe that he will be able to spend billions to deport millions of people? Have you missed that he's so ignorant that he doesn't even know what he doesn't know? Do you like the fact that he kisses Putin's a##&*?
What gives? Are you trying to fix a plumbing and electrical problem in your house by purchasing a 1,000 lbs of C4?
My liberal friends and I think Don the Con is a vile dictator in waiting. But, I'm stymied by his huge support. Why? You don't like the education your kids are getting, so you fire all the teacher, burn down the buildings, sow salt, and then plow the ashes under?
If you are one of Trump's people. . Do you really believe he will bring back coal miner jobs or relight the steel mills? Do you believe that he will be able to spend billions to deport millions of people? Have you missed that he's so ignorant that he doesn't even know what he doesn't know? Do you like the fact that he kisses Putin's a##&*?
What gives? Are you trying to fix a plumbing and electrical problem in your house by purchasing a 1,000 lbs of C4?
52
It doesn't matter that Trump's projects are all fantasies. Trump's supporters know that his little black heart is in the right place
3
Joe--they don't care. All they care about is seeing Trump wreak their hatred on Hillary, Obama, and everyone else not like them who've cheated them out of their "just due."
2
The 17 republicans that Trump vanquished were either too far right or offered no new ideas. He won the republican nomination because he said something different. Then as the time went on he talked about the same old tax breaks for millionaires and businesses and Supreme Court justices to punish women...had he stuck with some of the policies...or had any real policy he really could have won.
The billionaire has no clothes or money or ideas. Only the stupid people stayed. Everyone else jumped ship
The billionaire has no clothes or money or ideas. Only the stupid people stayed. Everyone else jumped ship
14
With all due respect, this piece revealed your shared false sense of superiority as a college graduate.
As a white, 25-year-old college graduate in a second-hand dress, I did not look like a Trump supporter.
Partly because my nature of think independently. I completely agree with Mr. Trump’s assessment: our economic system is rigged for more than 20 plus years.
I had, yes, a college degree. I also had a minimum wage job to support myself, $84 in my bank account, $49,000 in debt to my name, and $700 in rent due in 11 days. I was extremely hungry, worried about my utilities being shut off, and 100% planning to hit up the dumpster at the nearby Starbucks when I was done there. I was at WorkSource to find out if I qualified for literally any program to make my finances less crushing. And yet, the main street media is reporting almost daily: poverty is down, employment is up……. Doesn’t make any sense in main street America, period!!
As a white, 25-year-old college graduate in a second-hand dress, I did not look like a Trump supporter.
Partly because my nature of think independently. I completely agree with Mr. Trump’s assessment: our economic system is rigged for more than 20 plus years.
I had, yes, a college degree. I also had a minimum wage job to support myself, $84 in my bank account, $49,000 in debt to my name, and $700 in rent due in 11 days. I was extremely hungry, worried about my utilities being shut off, and 100% planning to hit up the dumpster at the nearby Starbucks when I was done there. I was at WorkSource to find out if I qualified for literally any program to make my finances less crushing. And yet, the main street media is reporting almost daily: poverty is down, employment is up……. Doesn’t make any sense in main street America, period!!
21
One can only agree that our economic system is rigged.
It is rigged by people like Trump, for people like Trump. Trump doesn't know how to reversing the rigging -- his one substantial proposal, this tax proposal, will make things worse for people like Tina W. (and for people like me).
I can understand why Tina W. is frustrated.
I cannot understand why she thinks Mr. Trump will alleviate her frustrations.
It is rigged by people like Trump, for people like Trump. Trump doesn't know how to reversing the rigging -- his one substantial proposal, this tax proposal, will make things worse for people like Tina W. (and for people like me).
I can understand why Tina W. is frustrated.
I cannot understand why she thinks Mr. Trump will alleviate her frustrations.
10
With all due respect, why did you rack up such a big debt? What is your degree? You may not want to hear this, but it is possible to get a college degree with out taking on a huge debt and have a degree that will lead to a job. I did it as many others I know did (and are still doing it). And, to answer your objections before they are raised, this wasn't 50 years ago and many people are still doing it today. Do the first 2 years at a community college, go to a state school, live at home, work, look for scholarships, double up and finish as soon as you can. Forgo the 'college experience' for a better future.
3
I can see agreeing with Trump's assessment...but on what basis do you believe he can fix the problems, or even wants to? His history is, objectively, based largely on skimming money from his enterprises and leaving others on the hook for his debts. His trial for fraud over Trump University is scheduled to start Nov. 28th.
5
I think it was aid in Forrest Gump "stupid is as stupid does."
I understand why an uneducated person might be gullible enough to believe a con artist like trump, but the bigger mystery is everyone else.
I understand why an uneducated person might be gullible enough to believe a con artist like trump, but the bigger mystery is everyone else.
27
Neither of my parents were very well educated but they were both well read and pretty well informed. We had five different daily newspapers in our house and a variety of science and business magazines. A lack of education is no excuse for being willfully ignorant and uninformed.
84
Andrew, I agree with your comment. It is indeed a mystery. There are several well educated people in my neighborhood and throughout my community (The Villages, Florida) and they insist that Trump is the answer because they loathe Hillary. One of them, a former college professor and a CPA, asserts that Trump is not what he says. I will vote at the state and local level for good Democrats. I will not vote for Hillary because I feel that she'll win regardless of my non-participating protest vote. But I sure as hell wouldn't vote for Trump. Both candidates are disgusting, arrogant, repulsive, repugnant and ignorant miscreants. John Kaisac and Bernie Sanders are at not perfect but both of those guys would have at least represented sanity. They are both decent men of good character and integrity. We really all lost this election.
8
Jay, vote for Hillary.
3
Mr. Cohn did not mention the disparity in assets between the college-educated families and the blue-collar families.
The college-educated families are not only more highly educated and more fully informed, but they also, on average have considerably more assets than the blue-collar families.
Some sociologists now speak of the New American Aristocracy of the prosperous college-educated families, who train up their children to be prosperous college-educated workers, like themselves.
Thus there also is a distinct class division to the new red/blue political split that Mr. Cohn has described.
What a revolution it would be, if the Democratic party became the party of the aristocrats and oligarchs, and the GOP became the plebeian party.
The college-educated families are not only more highly educated and more fully informed, but they also, on average have considerably more assets than the blue-collar families.
Some sociologists now speak of the New American Aristocracy of the prosperous college-educated families, who train up their children to be prosperous college-educated workers, like themselves.
Thus there also is a distinct class division to the new red/blue political split that Mr. Cohn has described.
What a revolution it would be, if the Democratic party became the party of the aristocrats and oligarchs, and the GOP became the plebeian party.
20
There's a generational split, too--a lot of those college educated people in their college educated groups have non-college educated parents and extended families, who view them with a defensive combination of suspicion and disdain.
You're not like us anymore. You must think you're better than we are because you went to college--how ungrateful after how hard we worked to send you there.
Now imagine a group of people feeling that way about a whole generation.
You're not like us anymore. You must think you're better than we are because you went to college--how ungrateful after how hard we worked to send you there.
Now imagine a group of people feeling that way about a whole generation.
7
"What a revolution it would be, if the Democratic party became the party of the aristocrats and oligarchs, and the GOP became the plebeian party.¨
Yo! It has already happened
Yo! It has already happened
3
But a lot of Trump supporters are actually quite well-off -- $70K median income is the figure I've seen, while plenty of college-educated people are losing white-collar jobs to offshoring.
Nor have I seen any signs that Republicans are offering policies that actually benefit "the plebeians." It's still the Democrats offering policies that benefit everyone, not just those on top.
I think a lot of the polarization resulted from the proliferation of media outlets that enabled conservatives to contruct an entire alternate reality bubble based on factual distortions and outright fabrications. It's now an lucrative industry, so it won't go away anytime soon.
Nor have I seen any signs that Republicans are offering policies that actually benefit "the plebeians." It's still the Democrats offering policies that benefit everyone, not just those on top.
I think a lot of the polarization resulted from the proliferation of media outlets that enabled conservatives to contruct an entire alternate reality bubble based on factual distortions and outright fabrications. It's now an lucrative industry, so it won't go away anytime soon.
1
I've often thought that we may look back on Trump as doing a great service for this country. As rancid as his candidacy is, he has uncovered the weeds of resentment, anger and fear among many that have gone unnoticed for too long. It is supposed to be liberty and justice for ALL, not just the rich, or urban, or educated.
30
But they kept voting for Republicans all the same! Bathrooms! Black Panthers! Feminazis! How do you fix that -- not voting for politicians who support policies that would help them, because they might also help the "wrong" people. And then they're angry, resentful and fearful because the government is failing them -- the government their Republicans have controlled for over six years. But change parties? No!! Emails! Benghazi!
2
Doesn't this also reflect the successful neutering of organized labor by corporate America and its gop stooges? industrial unions are no longer the predominant means by which white working class men organize to exercise political power. Now, instead of collectively aligning with the party that most represents their interests, they have individually gravitated to the candidate that stokes their greivances and manipulates their emotions.
41
I totally agree. Here in the South, the Republicans long ago convinced the middle class that unions are bad. Their example, that certain industries moved south for cheaper labor. They believe the union workers priced themselves out of a job. They were actually proud of doing the work cheaper.
Now, these same people are mad the the companies can get labor cheaper in Mexico or Asia. They never seem to grasp the connection.
Now, these same people are mad the the companies can get labor cheaper in Mexico or Asia. They never seem to grasp the connection.
19
Education may play a role in these demographics but it needs to be explained in light of that which the author does not speak: in absence of education it would appear that this group: under-educated white men still feel entitled to racial and sexual privilege. After all, that is what their candidate has preached.
Neither candidate has addressed what this demographic needs: retooling for a global information economy. If they had that training, jobs and money coming in they would be the biggest boosters of globalism. That they have maintained an allegiance to a candidate patently unable to help them or anyone else speaks to the most potent message that Trump is all about.
Anti-globalism is a pretext for their discontent. And while under-educated, these guys are not stupid. They simply want that to which they believe themselves entitled no matter the laws or social norms to the contrary. It is the only thing with Trump that they really have in common and unfortunately it would appear they are holding onto those beliefs with all their heart.
Neither candidate has addressed what this demographic needs: retooling for a global information economy. If they had that training, jobs and money coming in they would be the biggest boosters of globalism. That they have maintained an allegiance to a candidate patently unable to help them or anyone else speaks to the most potent message that Trump is all about.
Anti-globalism is a pretext for their discontent. And while under-educated, these guys are not stupid. They simply want that to which they believe themselves entitled no matter the laws or social norms to the contrary. It is the only thing with Trump that they really have in common and unfortunately it would appear they are holding onto those beliefs with all their heart.
28
Maybe you have this backwards and this is due to an especially strong attraction of these voters to Trump, rather than a weakness for Clinton.
5
A well rounded education and culture are intricately connected.
White working class voters are most angry that many of them are out of work. Cultural issues play into their anger, as does the diminished power of labor unions brought about by Republicans, and the failure to deal with job training and infrastructure (jobs!) rebuilding on the part of the Republican Congress. That white working class voters are now choosing a self-declared "Republican," is testament to both their frustrations, and their lack of both information and education.
White working class voters are most angry that many of them are out of work. Cultural issues play into their anger, as does the diminished power of labor unions brought about by Republicans, and the failure to deal with job training and infrastructure (jobs!) rebuilding on the part of the Republican Congress. That white working class voters are now choosing a self-declared "Republican," is testament to both their frustrations, and their lack of both information and education.
17
This is an election of paradoxes! The educational split in the North and Midwest and the continuing culture war in the South among whites has produced an alliance of strange bedfellows! That's not unique in politics! Mr.Trump frames his rhetoric in ultra simple terms which resonates with this group. It lacks facts and substance but this group likes it - call it 'bar room talk', 'locker room banter', 'fish fry chat'. By contrast the policy loaded rhetoric of Mrs. Clinton is prosaic and relatively long-winded and tends to draw yawns even from her loyalists. Tonight's final debate should reveal that divide.
2
This election demonstrates that uneducated white American males hate the idea of a female President even more than they hate the idea of a black President.
What a lovely group of sophisticated and deplorable Americans.
Hate is where their heart is, and Donald Trump is their deplorable voice.
Nice people.
What a lovely group of sophisticated and deplorable Americans.
Hate is where their heart is, and Donald Trump is their deplorable voice.
Nice people.
73
Your comment drips with contempt and it is you who seems full of hate.
You ignore the legitimate gripes of working class people, whose lives and livelihoods have been decimated by cruel economic policies. Do you really believe that the many grave concerns of this group can be reduced to mere hateful bigotry? You repeat Hillary's vicious statement reducing these voters to unredeemable deplorables. Imagine applying these harsh words to any other group other than white men.
In the aggregate, working class jobs provide more positive value to ALL people than professional jobs. All human beings -- no matter their gender identity, race, creed, sexual orientation, -- need food, clothing, shelter, transportation, etc. We all need our trash collected and processed. We all need 911 operators and the ambulance crew that gets us to the hospital. We love those tow-truck drivers who rescue us when our car breaks down. We like our air conditioners installed and our water heater replaced when it breaks down. We like the guys who lay down our flooring and make necessary repairs to our homes. We need the truck drivers who deliver food and other necessary goods.
Check out "Listen, Liberal" by Thomas Frank. He describes how the Democratic Party has become the party of the top 10% -- the "well graduated" professional class.
And: how did we come to describe non-college educated people as "uneducated?" 12 years of schooling is not education?
You ignore the legitimate gripes of working class people, whose lives and livelihoods have been decimated by cruel economic policies. Do you really believe that the many grave concerns of this group can be reduced to mere hateful bigotry? You repeat Hillary's vicious statement reducing these voters to unredeemable deplorables. Imagine applying these harsh words to any other group other than white men.
In the aggregate, working class jobs provide more positive value to ALL people than professional jobs. All human beings -- no matter their gender identity, race, creed, sexual orientation, -- need food, clothing, shelter, transportation, etc. We all need our trash collected and processed. We all need 911 operators and the ambulance crew that gets us to the hospital. We love those tow-truck drivers who rescue us when our car breaks down. We like our air conditioners installed and our water heater replaced when it breaks down. We like the guys who lay down our flooring and make necessary repairs to our homes. We need the truck drivers who deliver food and other necessary goods.
Check out "Listen, Liberal" by Thomas Frank. He describes how the Democratic Party has become the party of the top 10% -- the "well graduated" professional class.
And: how did we come to describe non-college educated people as "uneducated?" 12 years of schooling is not education?
24
That's possibly a little harsh Socrates. Always remember to imagine what it might be like to "walk in another's shoes". That way, it tempers ones views on disagreements.
2
Maggie--then why do these folks constantly vote for people whose policies decimate their lives? How is that educated if you don't make the connections between outsourced jobs and guys like Trump pulling down fortunes from overseas-made goods? How is that educated if you vote in governors like Pence and Brownback whose economics destroy what safety net is left? It doesn't make sense the working class helps those out to reduce them to serfhood and it's frustrating to liberals that working class people see them as the enemy.
6
This is a pretty misleading headline and theme. What you mean is a split among white voters along educational lines. More than 70% of working age people in the US have less than a 4-year degree. If Clinton was losing among that group, she would most certainly lose the election.
7
Multicultural globalism is not building the middle class. At least not in the US.
The gains have gone to the top here, and have helped to create a middle class in countries like China.
The losers have been those in the US who struggle to achieve or maintain a middle class lifestyle.
This is not about race. It's about economics.
The gains have gone to the top here, and have helped to create a middle class in countries like China.
The losers have been those in the US who struggle to achieve or maintain a middle class lifestyle.
This is not about race. It's about economics.
20
To those who wonder why the Clinton campaign has spent more time targeting Trump's bigotry and ignorance and less time puncturing his phony working-class bona fides, the answer is that they chose the path of least resistance. To show that Trump is a worker-exploiting, tax-dodging phony whose ideas would harm American workers takes time and effort to educate voters. To show that Trump is a crass, racist bigot and serial sexual predator only takes Trump's words.
26
In today's world, learning is a life long requirement. The Bachelor's Degree in mechanical engineering i earned in 1958 is virtually useless today except for basic mathematics and thermodynamics. 23 years after graduation, I had to earn a degree in computer science to maintain employment. Modern technology can turn on a dime.
30
Hurray for thermo! One of my favorite topics.
I'm reading Volker Ullrich's new biography of Hitler. "Working-class ethno-nationalists who feel left behind, both economically and culturally" describes perfectly the target demographic of the NSDAP in its early years, and (as we know) they attracted that group with huge success. They were mesmerized by the Fuehrer's ethnic scapegoating, simplistic solutions, strident but vague mantras, demonizing of intellectuals, contempt for the establishment and allusions (appeals?) to violence, in a scarily similar way to the acolytes of The Donald. It is some consolation that Trump is neither as eloquent nor as cunning as Hitler, but this divide is dangerous and seems set to only grow wider. Who will be the next Leader of the "True Americans"?
25
There is nothing wrong with being a non-college educated man or woman. Yet those of us who have had the advantage of "higher" education have isolated ourselves and evidence disdain for those less "educated" than ourselves. There but for fortune, as the song says. At the moment I know a fellow here in Mexico who can neither read nor write yet he is a wise and amazing human being. Anti intellectualism is one thing but anti non intellectual is another. Who designed and built those custom cabinets in your kitchen anyway? The white male working class does matter and this is our problem, not just theirs.
19
Ms. Wheat,
YES!
Someone gets it.
Thanks!
YES!
Someone gets it.
Thanks!
4
I'm educated (master's degree) and I too am voting third-party. A vote for HRC IMHO is a vote for the corrupt "political class" that many of us want to abolish. Many people I know (who happen to be educated and white) are voting for Trump as a protest vote because they too are sick and tired of the corrupt political class that runs Washington. There is a movement brewing that even the NYC is failing to report on here - those of us who want CHANGE. We didn't get hope and change with Obama, I certainly don't think we'll get it with Hilary either. 4-8 more years of political corruption is a long time.
10
I don't understand how Hillary or Obama could be identified as "corrupt." Every country would long for an SEC the likes of what Obama has created, we have cleaner air than most countries and cleaner water because of the EPA--China would die for something like that. So she talks to bankers, but also regulates them, which is a good thing to do after Bush in 2008. People launch a term like corrupt without realizing the only pay-to-play is happening in the Republican caucus, Trump easily the most corrupt candidate in history as his children take over his brand if he were president--you don't think that would be immensely corrupt? Read Hillarys plans for goodness sakes. Wikileaks has proven there is no "there" there---we would have the most prepared and competent president in history with Hillary!!
29
@Eroq, Bill & Hillary Clinton and their advisers (Bob Rubin, Larry Summers, etc.) share equal responsibility with G.W. Bush for failing to regulate bankers & causing the crash/Great Recession. In spite of the disastrous impact of the Reagan-era deregulation of Savings and Loans, which led to crash & required mass taxpayer bailout, Bill Clinton did Reagan one better & signed the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act. Bill Clinton and his advisers also helped craft the Commodity Futures Modernization Act, which exempted credit default swaps from regulation (huge cause of the crash). Bill Clinton also got the ball rolling (which G.W. Bush then imitated) by pushing banks to make very risky loans in low-income neighborhoods, leading to the no-documentation "liar" loans.
And a Republican, President Nixon (working with Democratic Congress), created the EPA.
And a Republican, President Nixon (working with Democratic Congress), created the EPA.
8
I guess you've proved the point that a degree doesn't guarantee smarts. Some aren't able to identify the obstructionism Obama faced and blame the right causes, nor see the incredibly large difference between Trump and HRC and speak of casting a "protest vote". Or there's race and gender that clouds judegement. There's only one vote. I hope you live in a blue state where it won't matter too much.
3
I would guess that the delineation between political factions is largely based on education and religious fervor. Our country needs a standard National educational curriculum based on scientific reality, not mythology.
17
Support for Trump from this quarter is nothing more than an historical anti-intellectual strain in American life coming to the fore. That it encompasses such a large number of voters should be no surprise.
11
Yours is a reasonable conclusion. another reasonable conclusion might be that Hillary (who is getting my vote, btw), is not a strong candidate in an election that might usually favor the out of power party. But because Trump is such a hideous candidate he has lost everything EXCEPT the white non college educated worker. In that interpretation, it is not surprising for Clinton to not reach Obama's milestones among them, but rather proof that Trump can not reach any of the constituents necessary for a gop win. which seems more likely, a tectonic shift, or a poor candidate?
5
IMO, Hillery deserves a better opponant
2
Today's "The Interpreter" column in this newspaper reports on a study done by Rathbun et al in March 2016 that claims a correlation between Conservation values (as defined by Shalom Schwartz's universal model of values) and certain foreign policy views. The columnists suggest that these views are closely matched by Trump's stated foreign policy and explains its appeal to voters with Conservation values (Security, Tradition and Conformity). This leads me to wonder if Trump's overall message appeals to voters holding these values, and suggests that the new culture war lines are drawn largely by these values.
If Schwartz is correct, individuals holding these values would be receptive to the populist, under-siege message Trump delivers, and this is exactly the group most likely to circle the wagons in response. This would explain the apparent immunity this group seems to have to any reason or evidence that contradicts their views.
If the new culture war lines are indeed defined by Conservation values, then things could stay ugly for a while. The Republican Party will be left with this minority group of voters and continue to avoid any credible policy ideas because this group is not motivated by policy, and the Democrats will be left with a disparate collection of everyone else, likely to fracture into smaller parties along the old political lines on the one side, and the new lines that Bernie Sanders exposed on the other.
If Schwartz is correct, individuals holding these values would be receptive to the populist, under-siege message Trump delivers, and this is exactly the group most likely to circle the wagons in response. This would explain the apparent immunity this group seems to have to any reason or evidence that contradicts their views.
If the new culture war lines are indeed defined by Conservation values, then things could stay ugly for a while. The Republican Party will be left with this minority group of voters and continue to avoid any credible policy ideas because this group is not motivated by policy, and the Democrats will be left with a disparate collection of everyone else, likely to fracture into smaller parties along the old political lines on the one side, and the new lines that Bernie Sanders exposed on the other.
5
The reason white, uneducated men are backing Trump is complex. There is some misogyny there, the less educated someone is the more they likely are going to reject a female candidate (even among women, but especially men). The other part is that Hillary never has been particularly progressive when it comes to the economy, while she made lip service about things like the minimum wage, her whole career was around the "new democrat" movement, who took their inspiration from Silicon Valley and from people like Larry Summers and Rubin, not the descendents of the New Deal mindset. She favored deals like NAFTA and other trade deals and totally overlooked or pooh pooh'ed those who predicted the massive loss of jobs, and said "it will create jobs', and was okay with it because 'her people' would benefit. Even today, in answer to lost jobs, she comes up with the idea of retraining as the answer, when that fails time and again, you aren't going to take a blue collar manufacturing worker and turn them into a silicon valley hipster or a finance analyst or whatnot..and it is hurting her.
While no one with half an ounce of brains thinks Trump cares about workers (hint, he doesn't, except as something to get as cheaply as possible), he is at least an unknown, he has no record, and being a white man yelling angry white man rhetoric, he resonates with them.
While no one with half an ounce of brains thinks Trump cares about workers (hint, he doesn't, except as something to get as cheaply as possible), he is at least an unknown, he has no record, and being a white man yelling angry white man rhetoric, he resonates with them.
21
To me, what's sadder than the unoriginal media's constant, unending, simplistic focus only on Trump's sexual assault and Hillary's deleted emails respective scandals, is that the moderators of their debates have been largely focusing only on asking the candidates about these charges. Do the moderators have any journalistic integrity, or even a journalist's curiosity in actually asking and knowing instead what Trump and Hillary have to say about....oh, I don't know...........the actual ISSUES that we voters want their opinions on (crime, employment, health insurance, military, terrorism, discrimination, poverty, human rights, etc.)? It's a slap in the face, including again if this evening the moderator makes a beeline for only asking about these obsessively covered respective charges against Trump and Hillary, using up precious debate air time during which we could get a final glimpse nationwide all at once on what these two think are our most important issues, and what they would do about them. The lack of critical-thinking originality in the majority of today's media "journalists"'s reporting and questioning today, is jarringly almost null.
7
I know a man who handles a lot of military funerals all over Georgia. He says that in the last 10-15 years the number of non religious funerals has gone up. Especially for the Atlanta suburbs.
What if the new divide of urban/rural is the same as it always was? Only, the suburbs benefit from the new world more than the rural areas of America do.
What if the new divide of urban/rural is the same as it always was? Only, the suburbs benefit from the new world more than the rural areas of America do.
4
Are "white men without a college degree" really a monolithic bloc? Does it matter if they are unemployed coal miners in West Virginia, or employed plumbers in WA state? I Does age, ethnicity, or region make a difference, or are they all magically linked in their "whiteness" and "non-college-degree-ness" like a giant fraternity?
I do not think this group is a monolithic group, but assuming they are, what do they want? We learned that many Tea Party adherents railed against the government while happily accepting Social Security and Medicare, so maybe these men are also confused about their own interests.
This article doesn't attempt to articulate what these interests are. If these men are displaced manufacturing workers, which party's platform best serves them? What specific policy proposals would put these men on a path to employment?
Are any of them affected by the growing drug addictions in their communities, by a predatory financial sector, or by tax policies that benefit billionaires with billion dollar deductions? Does climate change have any affect on them, or do they live in an hermetically sealed bubble with its own source of air and water? Which party would best address their concerns?
Or are they simply angry about their perceived loss of power in a society growing increasingly diverse? Are they being manipulated by another angry white man who is using and directing their anger but offering no solutions other than violence and war?
I do not think this group is a monolithic group, but assuming they are, what do they want? We learned that many Tea Party adherents railed against the government while happily accepting Social Security and Medicare, so maybe these men are also confused about their own interests.
This article doesn't attempt to articulate what these interests are. If these men are displaced manufacturing workers, which party's platform best serves them? What specific policy proposals would put these men on a path to employment?
Are any of them affected by the growing drug addictions in their communities, by a predatory financial sector, or by tax policies that benefit billionaires with billion dollar deductions? Does climate change have any affect on them, or do they live in an hermetically sealed bubble with its own source of air and water? Which party would best address their concerns?
Or are they simply angry about their perceived loss of power in a society growing increasingly diverse? Are they being manipulated by another angry white man who is using and directing their anger but offering no solutions other than violence and war?
30
Brilliant!! This is what journalism is supposed to be doing.
2
Culture wars are not over until the Religious Rights quits trying to legislate their beliefs!
29
This helps explain why the polls show Trump ahead in Iowa. I have been puzzled by that since we voted twice for Obama. I will be bummed if Trump carries my state but can live with it as long as Hillary gets 270 electoral votes.
10
I feel exactly the same way here in Ohio, which went for Obama but is a toss-up in Clinton-Trump. It is so embarrassing, just when I had gotten over Ohio supporting GW Bush. Ohio's college grad and racial proportions are identical to Michigan's, but not the current poll numbers. Wondering why...
9
Mr. Cohn seems quite comfortable using the term “working-class” to identify those voters with whom Clinton is struggling. But in summarizing his findings he shifts the delineation to the level of education these voters have achieved. This bait-and-switch is emblematic of the awkwardness with which Americans talk about class. Put quite simply, this election is divided along class lines. Why do we have such difficulty saying so?
The invocation of education as the prime delineating factor among the electorate is just another way to avoid saying the C-word. We’re not really talking about education, after all. We’re not talking about how well-read these people are, about their skills at differential calculus, or whether they can say snarky things at cocktail parties about the shoddy curation of the TriBeCa Film Festival. No, we’re really talking about income and wealth levels. We’re talking about the resentment that poorer people feel toward the accredited classes, who, over the last several decades, abandoned any pretense of fiduciary responsibility for their less fortunate citizens.
The invocation of education as the prime delineating factor among the electorate is just another way to avoid saying the C-word. We’re not really talking about education, after all. We’re not talking about how well-read these people are, about their skills at differential calculus, or whether they can say snarky things at cocktail parties about the shoddy curation of the TriBeCa Film Festival. No, we’re really talking about income and wealth levels. We’re talking about the resentment that poorer people feel toward the accredited classes, who, over the last several decades, abandoned any pretense of fiduciary responsibility for their less fortunate citizens.
61
We’re talking about the resentment that poorer people feel toward the accredited classes, who, over the last several decades, abandoned any pretense of fiduciary responsibility for their less fortunate citizens.
but libertarians say no such responsibility exists.
but libertarians say no such responsibility exists.
1
Your emphasis on class over all would make a little more sense if non-white voters - the vast majority of whom are "working class", or whatever euphemism you prefer - were voting the same way in this election as their white counterparts are. The fact that they are overwhelmingly backing the Democrats speaks volumes about the intersection of class and race in America.
4
This comment raises a key question for me about what happens going forward, as there are real ideological splits within the "accredited" classes. Some of us are happy to pay our fair share if it is used to create a meaningful safety net and expand opportunity and protect our environment and our civil rights. We voted for Obama and he delivered a significant boost to those on the margins by the medicaid expansion in Obamacare -- that was a real expansion of the safety net, not an abandonment of the less fortunate. If he had not been obstructed by Republicans he would have also provided a much larger stimulus and universal pre-K and free community college -- all real efforts to expand opportunity. I for one still support that agenda and thus will be voting for Hillary, but there are plenty of college educated Republicans who oppose that agenda based on their belief that the safety net somehow inhibits innovation and creativity. I am happy to have them vote for Hillary out of basic patriotism and human decency, but I can't make an ideologically coherent party with them going forward because we just see the world too differently. So will we splinter into 3 -- college educated liberals, college educated conservatives, and the non-college educated?
In twenty years will there be a white, male working class large enough to matter politically?
12
There isn't today, as we will see on Nov. 8.
3
It won't matter *electorally*, or not enough to bring Trump victory. But oh my do white male working class people matter. Let's not get carried away and somehow believe they're going to become shrinking violets.
2
I hope so, we need men and women who work with their hands. Those of us with college degrees typically can't fix a car, roof our homes, etc. We all need blue collar workers and whatever their race, we need them to thrive.
2
I think it's basic male gender stereotypes at work...uneducated white "working" men have a strict view of their role in the life of their family and the life of the greater society: to care for, and protect, their women (who rely on them heavily).
Of course they hate Hillary...she doesn't need their protection or care, and her example to their wives and daughters poses the danger to "spread" that independence, leaving them with no women to care for and protect.
So they see Hillary as an existential threat, but rather than feel the close, personal emotional sting of this realization, they sublimate it and claim her to be a threat to "the nation" and, of course, they don't "trust her."
Educated men are more likely to be with educated women, and tend to have more educated daughters - education is a value that spreads within the family...which also means educated men are used to trusting intelligent, capable, and independent women...hence their comfort with Hillary for President.
Of course they hate Hillary...she doesn't need their protection or care, and her example to their wives and daughters poses the danger to "spread" that independence, leaving them with no women to care for and protect.
So they see Hillary as an existential threat, but rather than feel the close, personal emotional sting of this realization, they sublimate it and claim her to be a threat to "the nation" and, of course, they don't "trust her."
Educated men are more likely to be with educated women, and tend to have more educated daughters - education is a value that spreads within the family...which also means educated men are used to trusting intelligent, capable, and independent women...hence their comfort with Hillary for President.
145
I think you're wrong about women relying on these men. I'd be willing to bet that most of these men's wives work outside the home.
5
Educated men are more likely to be with educated women, and tend to have more educated daughters - education is a value that spreads within the family...which also means educated men are used to trusting intelligent, capable, and independent women...hence their comfort with Hillary for President.
maybe you should go to wall street where Ivy League education is rampant. You can see how much these educated persons love those of lower classes.
maybe you should go to wall street where Ivy League education is rampant. You can see how much these educated persons love those of lower classes.
2
They may work outside the home - I know so many who do - so it may not be so much that these women rely on these men, as much as it is (I think) that these men still feel the pressure to be that protector and that provider...in any case, what I was getting at was the man's perspective, how they identify their purpose is closely tied to being at the top of the family's totem pole...and as the work world knocks them off their other life totem poles, their positiion as the "head of the family" takes on greater meaning and significance *to them* (again, not the woman's perspective, but how men feel emotionally).
5
Which prompts me to again say: one of Hillary's primary focuses should be on rural education. If we can better educate the uneducated folks of the red states, and other rural areas, we can hopefully avoid another gut-wrenching debacle like Trump.
58
The same uneducated voters will impose their state curriculums to perpetuate the ignorance (ex: Texas, Kansas, etc). The GOP used to push for this hard as well when they could control the voters with "values" issues. Now that they've lost some control?
1
The analytical effort is vastly disproportional to the capability of either candidate to perform the duties of POTUS in an effective. How sad!!
1
Most of the white men without college degrees that I know think anyone with a degree is an elitist, a smarty-pants, a know-it-all. And they REALLY hate college-educated women.
They think anyone with a college degree has no "common sense." They think people with degrees don't work hard - they're little better than the lazy bums on welfare. They can't possibly work hard if they're educated.
And women by definition - their definition - are weak and so also can't work hard. Oh, they may slave away in the kitchen or laundry room, but that's not real work, not hard work like the men do.
College-educated women are the worst. Weak, lazy, elitist - and won't go to bed with them. Obviously corrupt.
They think anyone with a college degree has no "common sense." They think people with degrees don't work hard - they're little better than the lazy bums on welfare. They can't possibly work hard if they're educated.
And women by definition - their definition - are weak and so also can't work hard. Oh, they may slave away in the kitchen or laundry room, but that's not real work, not hard work like the men do.
College-educated women are the worst. Weak, lazy, elitist - and won't go to bed with them. Obviously corrupt.
218
"Most of the white men without college degrees that I know think anyone with a degree is an elitist, a smarty-pants, a know-it-all. And they REALLY hate college-educated women. "
yes, but do not the educated have, in general, a negative view of the uneducated (as long as they are white)? Do they not view them, in general, as troglodytes? How well do the many of these people treat their hired help (i.e, house cleaners, gardeners, plumbers)? Most of the very well educated, especially the wealthy, in my experience have a pretty negative view of these sub-humans.
yes, but do not the educated have, in general, a negative view of the uneducated (as long as they are white)? Do they not view them, in general, as troglodytes? How well do the many of these people treat their hired help (i.e, house cleaners, gardeners, plumbers)? Most of the very well educated, especially the wealthy, in my experience have a pretty negative view of these sub-humans.
8
Very sad to hear this, but I've seen this too...without experiencing intellectual work, it's very easy to judge it as not being "real" work...even sadder the opinion towards educated women (who in my experience are a real joy to be with).
2
@Yoda
Yes, you're right...many of the educated do treat the "uneducated" as being "lower" which is quite unfortunate.
When you require their services, however, a good plumber, electrician, pest control person, mechanic, chimney sweep, etc. cannot be beat...in their own realms, these folks are educated and in many cases expert, and I find they are often some of the most decent people I've met.
Yes, you're right...many of the educated do treat the "uneducated" as being "lower" which is quite unfortunate.
When you require their services, however, a good plumber, electrician, pest control person, mechanic, chimney sweep, etc. cannot be beat...in their own realms, these folks are educated and in many cases expert, and I find they are often some of the most decent people I've met.
6
Is this trend related to the explicit thinking and action related to diversity conducted by higher education in the last years?
3
I find it surprising that Mr. Cohn doesn't discuss sexism as a driving force behind white working-class voters preferences for a male candidate over a female candidate during this election. To me it seems like this is an integral part of the trend he is describing.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/features/hidden-sexism/
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/features/hidden-sexism/
51
For the life of me I can't see how white working class voters see Trump as their saviour. He is on record saying Americans pay is too high not too low. He was worth more at conception than these voters would make in 100 lifetimes, but they think he understands their plight really now. They should all take a critical thinking class.
58
BINGO, Chris!
Acquiring critical thinking skills is exactly what many of these voters didn't get in high school because, for the most part, they took no intellectually challenging classes. I taught in Tennessee's public high schools for 30+ years, and I saw it all the time.
Our low-bar curriculum policies in public schools has done these people a serious disservice. Sadly, what we're seeing in this election is that it has done our democracy a much worse disservice.
Acquiring critical thinking skills is exactly what many of these voters didn't get in high school because, for the most part, they took no intellectually challenging classes. I taught in Tennessee's public high schools for 30+ years, and I saw it all the time.
Our low-bar curriculum policies in public schools has done these people a serious disservice. Sadly, what we're seeing in this election is that it has done our democracy a much worse disservice.
3
I have a sister who is college educated and apparently a die-hard Republican ready to vote for Trump. I also have a non-college educated brother who is the same. So, using this sample of 2, it's 50-50, i.e., half of Trump supporters college educated and half not. From personal experience (I am college educated), I understand my brother completely, who is basically furious that his older sibling (me) is such a "smart, educated liberal" who of course votes for Democrats. This fury, a good word to describe the emotion, is what I believe underlies the visceral hate for educated liberals, and probably educated Republican "elites" as well. As for my sister, I'm surprised, but she bought into Rush Limbaugh a good 30 years ago and never looked back. Long live American families and God bless us!
29
Is level of education a significant factor among non-white voters?
NYT editor: No. Blacks and Hispanics and Asian-Americans are expected to vote for Clinton in huge numbers, with education not playing a notable role.
NYT editor: No. Blacks and Hispanics and Asian-Americans are expected to vote for Clinton in huge numbers, with education not playing a notable role.
16
Graduate of northeastern liberal arts college and top 20 grad school graduate. As an independent who has voted Democrat for president every year since 1992, I will not be voting Democrat for the first time. Combination of disastrous one-party, super-majority Democrat control in my New England state and Hillary's intervention-first, regime-change war hawk instincts. Also, very turned off by the extreme identity politics (from both major party candidates). Expect to vote 3rd party.
10
As long as you don't vote Trump. ;)
5
I too will not vote Democratic (or Republican) for the presidential election. I will try and vote Democratic for state and local officials. Hillary is so removed from the real world of working people that its impossible to vote for her. Donald is simply ignorant and repulsive.
Neither candidate is trustworthy. Neither has any real understanding of the anger and angst of the former middle class. Neither has any regard for national security. Both are more interested in themselves than in ordinary American citizens.
As for the cultural and education divide the differences between the parties and the candidates is far more complex that just those two issues.
Both parties are out of touch. The Republicans though are filled with terrible hate, rage and vitriol. They hate blacks, minorities, women and anyone who has more than a high school education. Republicans are filled with venom.
The Democrats are off their meds too. They want to tax everything in sight and continue welfare and non-earned subsidizing benefits for everyone. And they want to dismantle the military and end American leadership.
Where are the real statesmen and women of the past? Where are the true leaders of our nation? Politics now takes place in a sewer. In a stinking contest with a skunk no one wins. Tonight will be another contest in a sewer.
Neither candidate is trustworthy. Neither has any real understanding of the anger and angst of the former middle class. Neither has any regard for national security. Both are more interested in themselves than in ordinary American citizens.
As for the cultural and education divide the differences between the parties and the candidates is far more complex that just those two issues.
Both parties are out of touch. The Republicans though are filled with terrible hate, rage and vitriol. They hate blacks, minorities, women and anyone who has more than a high school education. Republicans are filled with venom.
The Democrats are off their meds too. They want to tax everything in sight and continue welfare and non-earned subsidizing benefits for everyone. And they want to dismantle the military and end American leadership.
Where are the real statesmen and women of the past? Where are the true leaders of our nation? Politics now takes place in a sewer. In a stinking contest with a skunk no one wins. Tonight will be another contest in a sewer.
7
Please don't choke on your moral superiority in opting for a no chance fringe candidate. Remember Nader and Florida in 2000? Vote for whomever you choose, but don't think you aren't indirectly supporting Trump.
21
Ok, maybe Trump is the perceived Messiah of the "white working class" but I don't understand how one can then vote for the party that does the least for these workers. (Trump has neither opinions or views, he is an opportunist) From health care to education to tax policy and anti-unionism, from every perspective this makes no sense to me. In other words, everything the Republicans stand for is to condemn the working class to a falling standard of living and to exult the uber wealthy to greater riches. So the what's must be left is the culture war but in another form.
35
I apologize for the last sentence: it should read: "so what must be left, is the culture war but in another form"
4
It is mystifying that Democrats are not challenging Trump on his working class credentials. Other than the fact that he projects the image of an alpha-male (notwithstanding small hands and orange wig), he has nothing to offer to working class men. If he is elected President, they will suffer the most from tax cuts for the rich, huge budget deficits, trade wars, weak defense, cozying up to Putin, weak economy, cuts to basic services and infrastructure... It should be easy to point out his lies and hypocrisy about the working-class in a advertising campaign using his own words.
88
It should be easy, indeed, to show Trump's lies and hypocrisy...but that's in a rational world...I've watched videos where Trump supporters hear about his lies, and they say they "don't care"...I've watched videos where Trump supporters hear about his treatment of women, and they say they "don't care"...same with videos telling about Trump stiffing contractors, not paying taxes, having to pay fines and settlements for thousands (!) of legal cases...always, "I don't care"...and yes, they ask on video, how can a man who has everything made overseas be trusted to brings jobs back to the USA...always I hear "he'll do it, I trust him" - their response to everything about Trump appears to be visceral and emotional, no intellect, no rationality, no analysis, no question....it boggles the imagination.
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It's nothing short of magical thinking and I don't get it either. They are so desperate to believe that he is actually going to do what he says he is going to do, that he can actually do it, and that he is not lying through his teeth that they will forgive or overlook practically anything.
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You're right but the key issue is will he keep us safer!
Women have generally have had to be more receptive to change because circumstances are not always favorable to them. We adjust because we have to. Men, especially white men with less education have had pretty good opportunities in the US. College was not always a requirement. And even now college isn't required per se but adjusting to changing realities, being flexible, and getting more education are the norm. In that respect women seem to pick up on the need to change. Compared to other societies where you have to really work hard to maintain a minimum standard of living, American men have it pretty good - until now. The resistance to change is partly fear and arrogance which leads to a backlash supporting Trump. Misogyny also plays a role - amazingly Hillary is very popular among men and women in Asia where we hear about how chauvinistic they are towards women. Anti-intellectualism buttresses all of the above - there has always been a strong under current of it. A hard working ambitious woman who is smart wants to become president - sounds okay to me. Apparently not to those men who are easily threatened by change.
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This is a great post. I hope you keep writing.
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Men, especially white men with less education have had pretty good opportunities in the US.
true 50 years ago but sure has not been since the late 1970s.
true 50 years ago but sure has not been since the late 1970s.
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You are quite right to point out misogyny and the ever-present anti-intellectualism that has (unfortunately) become the norm in America. As a man, I see many more examples of women showing much greater flexibility than men when it comes to adjusting to change, including the need for continual education (formal and informal).
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I expect Democrat Party's brain trust is well-educated enough to see that the scientific revolutions which are upon us, such as artificial intelligence and genetic engineering, are going to be devastating to a population of undereducated white males who are already ill-equipped to handle the post-industrial economy. It simply isn't prudent to rely on the mythical efficacy of self-choice or market drift to solve such a social problem: there needs to be an educational policy which pushes all young people in all regions into college, a population policy based rational scientific principals, and an economic policy which places social need above capitalist greed. ISIS is an example of what you get when you have no policy to deal with too many young men unequipped for productive lives or cultural change...
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such as artificial intelligence and genetic engineering, are going to be devastating to a population of undereducated white males who are already ill-equipped to handle the post-industrial economy.
I have a news flash for you. This is going to be devastating to everyone except the very, very wealthy. Many of the college educated will also be mauled. Automation even has the potential to replace many accountants and medical doctors.
I have a news flash for you. This is going to be devastating to everyone except the very, very wealthy. Many of the college educated will also be mauled. Automation even has the potential to replace many accountants and medical doctors.
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This "college for all" mentality will leave out many students if we don't redefine "college." Trade schools and community colleges preparing students for service jobs that involve technology, creative thinking, and resilience when disruptive technologies come along have to be respected and funded.
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jcarpenter, plus not everyone is suited for college. Why should a circular peg be forced into a square hole? Is this to society's interests and to the interests of those who do not fit into the hole? What is wrong with being a plumber, electrician or carpenter? Why do the elite hate working those who work with their hands so much?
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Conservatives in general, and post-Goldwater Republicans in particular, simply do not want an educated electorate capable of understanding the nuances, and results, of conservative policy and thought.
One needs look no further than then California Governor Ronald Reagan's attack on the California university system. Prior to Reagan California had the world's best public education system from K - graduate school in the world.
A democratic republic needs educated, knowledgeable and participating citizens in order to function optimally. Maintaining and governing a democratic republic is hard work.
The United States, for almost 50 years, has lacked either educated citizens, knowledgeable citizens or participating citizens while most citizens have opted to leave the work to others.
One needs look no further than then California Governor Ronald Reagan's attack on the California university system. Prior to Reagan California had the world's best public education system from K - graduate school in the world.
A democratic republic needs educated, knowledgeable and participating citizens in order to function optimally. Maintaining and governing a democratic republic is hard work.
The United States, for almost 50 years, has lacked either educated citizens, knowledgeable citizens or participating citizens while most citizens have opted to leave the work to others.
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Yes, but Ronnie had a nice, self effacing, avuncular way about him which too many confused with leadership. In fact, he was a mean spirited capitalist who actually believed that "greed is good." That he has been sanctified by the Republican party tells us all we need to know about him and it.
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@hapinoregon:
Or, for that matter, the sneering at "educated elites", or the people who, in talking about George W Bush, that 'he is a regular feller just like us". The whole claim that colleges are breeding grounds for liberalism and 'programming' is based on this same concept, and what it boils down to is they know that education means someone can look at a Donald Trump and realize just how much manure he is spreading, whereas someone less educated is likely to believe that Trump could (or would) put up trade barriers, would 'bring jobs back to the US' and so forth. More importantly, it is a lot easier to suspend disbelief when they have no basis for disbelief, when they see things that are complex in a simple light.
Politicians have known this a long time. Many years ago, someone in a private conversation supposedly asked Adam Clayton Powell about whether he thought educating the people of his district was important to their future, and he said something to the tune (at least according to the story I heard) that no, it wasn't, because if they got educated, they wouldn't vote for him. Whether it is apocryphal or not, it indicates, to paraphrase an old clothing company, "an educated voter is our worst customer".
Or, for that matter, the sneering at "educated elites", or the people who, in talking about George W Bush, that 'he is a regular feller just like us". The whole claim that colleges are breeding grounds for liberalism and 'programming' is based on this same concept, and what it boils down to is they know that education means someone can look at a Donald Trump and realize just how much manure he is spreading, whereas someone less educated is likely to believe that Trump could (or would) put up trade barriers, would 'bring jobs back to the US' and so forth. More importantly, it is a lot easier to suspend disbelief when they have no basis for disbelief, when they see things that are complex in a simple light.
Politicians have known this a long time. Many years ago, someone in a private conversation supposedly asked Adam Clayton Powell about whether he thought educating the people of his district was important to their future, and he said something to the tune (at least according to the story I heard) that no, it wasn't, because if they got educated, they wouldn't vote for him. Whether it is apocryphal or not, it indicates, to paraphrase an old clothing company, "an educated voter is our worst customer".
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Nate, one possible explanation for Clinton's weaknesses has to to with gender - being the first female president. I know most polls don't ask this question but I believe this is a huge deal for those with no college education. Those with no college education may not necessarily accept a dramatic change of the role of women. Again, this may be a little uncomfortable for some but we should not overlook.
Another related point, why is it always the case that the media refers to 'white working class' when in fact it should be whites with no college education. When we use the white working class, it seems to me that somehow it implies that other non-white groups don't work. I have not seen Black working class or Latino working class. I think using education classification may clearly explain between these groups.
Another related point, why is it always the case that the media refers to 'white working class' when in fact it should be whites with no college education. When we use the white working class, it seems to me that somehow it implies that other non-white groups don't work. I have not seen Black working class or Latino working class. I think using education classification may clearly explain between these groups.
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If polls asked whether Obama's undesirability had to do with his race, respondents would have assured us all that no, his race doesn't matter. It's that he wasn't born here.
Maybe they would consider the first female president's fashion choices or hairstyle the deal breaker.
Maybe they would consider the first female president's fashion choices or hairstyle the deal breaker.
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I also wonder if there is also a further distinction that would be relevant and that is whether the "working class" is working with their bodies/brawn or with their intellectual & creative skills. Growing up in a "white working class" family, I saw the wear and tear on the bodies of males working as carpenters, electricians, plumbers. The other week, a youngish male plumber doing work at my house was telling me how his back and knees are already affected by carrying hot water tanks and kneeling to dig out water connections to the house. Those trades are hard on the joints, the muscles and hearing. I wonder the extent to which the articles about males who have dropped out of the workforce and become addicted to prescription meds are also associated with supporting Trump and a sense that they can't seem to catch the American Dream.
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Just my hunch, but I'll be more men would admit to being sexist in this regard, than racist.
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I'm not sure about the conclusions here. A lot has to do with these two particular candidates, Clinton and Trump. Even the author agrees/tells us that Obama did pretty well among working-class men, and it's only been 4 years since last election. Imagine Sanders as the Dem candidate (against maybe a Jeb or Cruz) and I think tens of thousands of these white-working class, no college-degree males would be in the Dem camp. I think "Mark" below hit the nail on the head: frustration over "rage obstructionism" plus these two toxic candidates. I'm staying on the fence re: author's conclusions.
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The culture wars are not over. They have taken a different form, namely, blind rage obstructionism. Our government is dysfunctional because the losers in this war have no other way to vent their frustration but to vote against everything.
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@Mark: I bet culture war issues correlate closely with education levels. For example, people who are anti-abortion and anti-gay are probably less educated.
Republicans have made themselves the party of ignoramuses by pandering on social issues. Also by catering to the greatest ignorance of all--racism.
Republicans have made themselves the party of ignoramuses by pandering on social issues. Also by catering to the greatest ignorance of all--racism.
Could this be the reason why the GOP has been so anti-education? Did they predict that their party would eventually lose anyone who has been taught to think high school and then taught to think critically in college?
If anything, this election has convinced me of the need to pour way more money into education, from pre-kindergarten through to advanced degrees. We need people who can succeed in a technological world - where robots (not free trade) have been taking over jobs. And we need people who can understand that technological advances like robots (and not free trade) are the driving force behind changes in the economy. We need people who don't shy away from scientific evidence because they hated their high school chemistry teachers. We need people who understand basic statistics and can apply it correctly.
We needed an educated populace so that our politics can become about issues and not about fear.
If anything, this election has convinced me of the need to pour way more money into education, from pre-kindergarten through to advanced degrees. We need people who can succeed in a technological world - where robots (not free trade) have been taking over jobs. And we need people who can understand that technological advances like robots (and not free trade) are the driving force behind changes in the economy. We need people who don't shy away from scientific evidence because they hated their high school chemistry teachers. We need people who understand basic statistics and can apply it correctly.
We needed an educated populace so that our politics can become about issues and not about fear.
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Exactly - a Republican with an education is called a "Democrat."
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And so this doesn't become a third-world country.
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Brilliantly said.
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A lot of the rhetoric on the Right reminds me of the Maginot Line, a colossal series of fortifications in France designed to defend against the last war and easily bypassed by the invading Germans.
Building a wall along the Mexican border when net illegal immigration has dropped to zero is just one example. Shutting down international trade is another.' as is giving huge tax breaks to" job creators".
Our US military experience since WWII has been characterized by taking over conflicts in other countries and then wondering why things fall apart when we leave. But that doesn't stop Trump from advocating wading in once again.
The "fortifications" we should be building start with early education, vocational training, higher Ed, infrastructure, and most important, slowing climate change with a low carbon economy and natural sequestration.
Building a wall along the Mexican border when net illegal immigration has dropped to zero is just one example. Shutting down international trade is another.' as is giving huge tax breaks to" job creators".
Our US military experience since WWII has been characterized by taking over conflicts in other countries and then wondering why things fall apart when we leave. But that doesn't stop Trump from advocating wading in once again.
The "fortifications" we should be building start with early education, vocational training, higher Ed, infrastructure, and most important, slowing climate change with a low carbon economy and natural sequestration.
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But that doesn't stop Trump from advocating wading in once again.
I have a news flash for you, Hillary has not exactly been opposed to any military intervention she has come across, whether that be her support of the invasion of Iraq to intervention in Syria, Libya and calling for military action against Iran. If you do not want this she is not the person to be voting for.
I have a news flash for you, Hillary has not exactly been opposed to any military intervention she has come across, whether that be her support of the invasion of Iraq to intervention in Syria, Libya and calling for military action against Iran. If you do not want this she is not the person to be voting for.
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Yoda, you oversimplify and misrepresent. She was opposed to the invasion of Iraq. George Bush lied to the Senate to get their votes. Look at wht she said whwn she voted. She solved a lot of problems with diplomacy, which you heard nothing about because it was done quietly, and absence of war means no headlines. She made an Iran deal -- that's "wanting war"?
And finally, she's more interventionist than I am, but I recognize that some "intervention" is a question of "should we stand by and let civilians be massacred or try to save them?" I don't pretend to know the right answers, if there are any. Should we have bombed the railway lines to Auschwitz? We didn't. The Rwanda genocide haunted Bill Clinton. Maybe we could have done something.
Please stop reducing complex problems to shallow slogans. Reality and human beings don't fit neatly into our narratives.
And finally, she's more interventionist than I am, but I recognize that some "intervention" is a question of "should we stand by and let civilians be massacred or try to save them?" I don't pretend to know the right answers, if there are any. Should we have bombed the railway lines to Auschwitz? We didn't. The Rwanda genocide haunted Bill Clinton. Maybe we could have done something.
Please stop reducing complex problems to shallow slogans. Reality and human beings don't fit neatly into our narratives.
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" She was opposed to the invasion of Iraq."
Unlike Obama, she did not vote against the congressional resolution that gave carte blanche to Bush. That is not a vote of no confidence but support for Bush. Maybe she was just afraid of the repurcussions on her political career, after all the Republicans were vehemently attacking anyone opposting this resolution as unpatriotic.
Unlike Obama, she did not vote against the congressional resolution that gave carte blanche to Bush. That is not a vote of no confidence but support for Bush. Maybe she was just afraid of the repurcussions on her political career, after all the Republicans were vehemently attacking anyone opposting this resolution as unpatriotic.
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End the culture war -- reabsorb the blue collar to the party they should belong to:
Collective bargaining neutralizes immigration's impact on wages by setting labor's price by the max the consumer will shell out -- rather than the min poor country raised workers will suffer.
US manufacturing employment has dropped from 6% to 4% of jobs under China syndrome (representing a higher proportion of overall income). When I was born (1944) farm employment was 25% -- now 2%.
What we need is $400 low skilled jobs to pay $800 for the most part ($600 for fast food okay with 33% labor costs -- certainly not for Walmart with 7%). Simple equation says it looks like the money is there: 48 years ago the fed minimum wage was $440 -- back when per capita income was half today's.
Collective bargaining can work it all out in the free market.
Tales of rust belt degeneracy are just white ghettos mirroring black ghettos -- when work goes away. It looks like the work is there -- it looks like adequate pay is there.
Collective bargaining neutralizes immigration's impact on wages by setting labor's price by the max the consumer will shell out -- rather than the min poor country raised workers will suffer.
US manufacturing employment has dropped from 6% to 4% of jobs under China syndrome (representing a higher proportion of overall income). When I was born (1944) farm employment was 25% -- now 2%.
What we need is $400 low skilled jobs to pay $800 for the most part ($600 for fast food okay with 33% labor costs -- certainly not for Walmart with 7%). Simple equation says it looks like the money is there: 48 years ago the fed minimum wage was $440 -- back when per capita income was half today's.
Collective bargaining can work it all out in the free market.
Tales of rust belt degeneracy are just white ghettos mirroring black ghettos -- when work goes away. It looks like the work is there -- it looks like adequate pay is there.
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PS. Progressive states (WA, OR, CA, NV, IL, NY, MD, etc.) can add to labor market protections (but not subtract) -- just like with the minimum wage. Time for them to make union busting (which is illegal but so far unsanctioned, state or fed) a felony.
Later, when Dems get Congress back they should empower the NLRB to mandate certification elections on a finding of (illegal) muscling.
Later, when Dems get Congress back they should empower the NLRB to mandate certification elections on a finding of (illegal) muscling.
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Advancement of technology is changing jobs and especially for folks without college degrees. If politicians want to stay in power, I hope they put their efforts into helping this class. It's a hard working group, with families, and need to be helped to adapt to new order in this economy.
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I agree that this class is in dire need of attention from our government. What's disappointing is that they view Trump as any sort of solution. Someone like Bernie Sanders would have really fought for their interests. It's getting harder to sympathize with their plight when they are voting en masse for this horrendous candidate.
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this tech will impact more than just this class of people. As the emperor of Ethiopia said at the League of Nations meeting condemning his nation's invasion by Italy, "today it is us, tomorrow it will be you". Technology will leave few jobs unimpacted. The bulk of the college educated will be joining these people within the next 20-30 years.
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Well educated people have already started to swell the ranks of the unemployed. I am afraid it will take a lot less than 20 or 30 years, it is more likely to explode in the next 5 to 10 years if not earlier.
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One more reason to offer a free education to all the citizens.Racism,sexism,homophobia and anti-science mob mentality won't survive in an enlightened citizenry.
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Unfortunately, they sure as heck do.
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National currilculum? Good luck.
Can one election be seen as a turning point? Will this be a permanent shift or return to the mean in the next election?
Instead of a center-right business oriented Republican, we have a narcistic self promoter. On the Democratic candidate we have a technocrat that many can't warm to.
We really won't know until after the election and the numbers are dug into. I hope that I can read about it here.
Instead of a center-right business oriented Republican, we have a narcistic self promoter. On the Democratic candidate we have a technocrat that many can't warm to.
We really won't know until after the election and the numbers are dug into. I hope that I can read about it here.
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The explanation may be quite simple and have more to do with the Republican candidate than demographic or partisan divisions. To paraphrase Mayor Bloomberg, college educated voters know a con when they see one.
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the victim of Bernie Madoff will probably disagree.
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Either that, or they would prefer to be conned by a con woman.
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Like Madoff?
1