I will take good character over machismo any day as a sign of manliness. Donald Trump is a 70-year-old manchild going on 14 years old. Man, not hardly; that would be a serious stretch for Trump and his ilk.
30
Hm...I was expecting this article to call attention to the fact that more and more men are feeling emboldened to publicly bully others, either behind an anonymous screen name or fact-to-face. Women, racial minorities, religious minorities, LGBTQ...all are being increasingly targeted by (often) straight, white men who seem to think that if Trump is saying it, they can too. Sure, I understand that saying "boys will be boys" could be a form of "male bashing," but I think that's taking it a bit far. Let's not focus too much on the emotional needs of those who perpetuate misogyny and racism, to the detriment of those who are actually being targeted.
29
Boasting about grabbing pussy and seeing losers in those who don't get their way is, ultimately, a recipe for failure. What is really shows is a deep-seated insecurity and/or immaturity.
Trump is a failure, in his married life, in his business life, and in this election. I hope a lesson will be learned; namely, that honor, integrity and responsibility get you further than what is at best socially unacceptable behavior and behavior that civilized people find unacceptable.
Trump is a failure, in his married life, in his business life, and in this election. I hope a lesson will be learned; namely, that honor, integrity and responsibility get you further than what is at best socially unacceptable behavior and behavior that civilized people find unacceptable.
40
Whenever I see articles of this type, I wonder two things: One, most men do not act like Trump, so why are we so worried he'll affect boys? And two, if boys are supposed to show their feelings, not be so aggressive, be nurturing, change diapers and so forth, exactly what characteristics that are uniquely male are they supposed to have? What special things do men any longer bring to the table that women can't get or do for themselves? Because if there aren't any, then what do we tell our boys?
8
Having raised both a son and daughter, each of whom were cruelly taunted and assaulted in school, (the son physically with repeated punches in the groin while teachers pretended not to notice, the daughter verbally and emotionally with ostracization and ridicule), I find the perspective of this article quite biased against the male genre.
Expect more of this superior-sexism under President Hillary Inc.
And wand what shall we call what Hillary and Debbie did to Bernie?
Cowying .
Expect more of this superior-sexism under President Hillary Inc.
And wand what shall we call what Hillary and Debbie did to Bernie?
Cowying .
3
Not sure framing it as boys being victimized by man culture is the best way to go.
We're depraved on account of we're deprived...
We're depraved on account of we're deprived...
4
My sons are just learning what jerks their so called superiors can be and often are, while at the same time employing skills they developed as a result of using a reasonable approach to solving all, but the most irrational behaviors.
Assuming anything, especially that boys "are hard-wired in certain ways: to be aggressive, active, competitive, impulsive and stoic." is a great excuse to avoid the effects of parental behavior. With four sons who have been guided without the use of physical discipline and rarely showing any of these accepted observations, I have to question this nature vs. nurture conclusion.
We all, both men and women, are on occasion a bit flighty, but for the most part I have rarely witnessed truly erratic behavior on the part of either sex. It should be noted that although everyone occasionally drops the ball the majority are level headed most of the time.
I certainly did some things which I don't recall with pride but stayed within social bounds most of the time without the benefit of my religious, familial or social training. Stealing from another kid, beating anybody up or the thought of vandalizing stayed far off on the horizon of my behavior, more because I didn't like any of those things to happen to me. All without a clue to "karma".
Most of us are decent and our childhoods reflect this. Some kids are mistreated and have a bone to pick with someone, often anyone who crosses their path at the wrong time.
An uncertain world in need of parents.
Assuming anything, especially that boys "are hard-wired in certain ways: to be aggressive, active, competitive, impulsive and stoic." is a great excuse to avoid the effects of parental behavior. With four sons who have been guided without the use of physical discipline and rarely showing any of these accepted observations, I have to question this nature vs. nurture conclusion.
We all, both men and women, are on occasion a bit flighty, but for the most part I have rarely witnessed truly erratic behavior on the part of either sex. It should be noted that although everyone occasionally drops the ball the majority are level headed most of the time.
I certainly did some things which I don't recall with pride but stayed within social bounds most of the time without the benefit of my religious, familial or social training. Stealing from another kid, beating anybody up or the thought of vandalizing stayed far off on the horizon of my behavior, more because I didn't like any of those things to happen to me. All without a clue to "karma".
Most of us are decent and our childhoods reflect this. Some kids are mistreated and have a bone to pick with someone, often anyone who crosses their path at the wrong time.
An uncertain world in need of parents.
11
Well,the current Mrs.Trump said in an interview yesterday,Billy egged him on.
5
I read some of these posts, and people are really into the minutia. You have to raise boys this way. Or do this. Why not tap into the most important male trait of all - the will to protect. I just figure it's my job individually, and our job as men collectively, to protect our families. This is not patronizing BS, it's natural instinct from the natural world. It is the male's job to confront danger and protect the females. And considering one in three women face sexual harassment or worse, I'd say we get a big fat juicy F, so far for the job we've done collectively. And oh yeah, we're the predators too. Women are afraid of us because we have proven to be dangerous.
But it's not over yet if we as men wake up and start really talking about this as strategists. I don't know the answers. But I have some ideas. I'm sure we can all come up with those. And then we need to act. Bring the predators out into the light. A little shame can be a good thing. But, it's long overdue for women to live in peace It's a big dream. But, it's time we got to doing our job, don't you think?
And we start with sending the wannabe Predator-In-Chief and the White Nationalists who support him, back to hell on election day. Then we need to get busy.
But it's not over yet if we as men wake up and start really talking about this as strategists. I don't know the answers. But I have some ideas. I'm sure we can all come up with those. And then we need to act. Bring the predators out into the light. A little shame can be a good thing. But, it's long overdue for women to live in peace It's a big dream. But, it's time we got to doing our job, don't you think?
And we start with sending the wannabe Predator-In-Chief and the White Nationalists who support him, back to hell on election day. Then we need to get busy.
18
Trump is a role model for antipathy, envy, calumny, mendacity, prevarication, stupidity in the face of challenge, not being prepared for his goal, and bullying.
17
Not to jinx things but I can't wait for the lesson for all the little boys and girls on nov 9:
.....that when you act like a jack•ss, YOU LOSE!
.....that when you act like a jack•ss, YOU LOSE!
22
Who in their right mind thinks Trump is a gentleman?
13
Just to be clear - Melania Trump said in the same interview that she felt like she had two boys at home, and what her husband said on the bus was not the man she knew.
If she knows her husband well enough to say that he acts like a boy (judging by the size of his hands, probably very true) and his talk was "boy talk", how could she release a statement within a day of the tape going public that Trump was not the man she knew? And to reiterate that in more interviews?
The boycott against their brand continues unabated amidst more Trump lies and attacks on everyone not named Donald J Trump.
We should invite Ivanka Trump to do the same as she has more than enough reason to be angry at the "ass" reference. At least there is one Trump who can be redeemed...
If she knows her husband well enough to say that he acts like a boy (judging by the size of his hands, probably very true) and his talk was "boy talk", how could she release a statement within a day of the tape going public that Trump was not the man she knew? And to reiterate that in more interviews?
The boycott against their brand continues unabated amidst more Trump lies and attacks on everyone not named Donald J Trump.
We should invite Ivanka Trump to do the same as she has more than enough reason to be angry at the "ass" reference. At least there is one Trump who can be redeemed...
5
If you want to see the effects of Trump on boys, read what Trump Jr. Has said. It will turn your stomach.
http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/17/media/don-jr-on-shock-jock-radio/index.html
http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/17/media/don-jr-on-shock-jock-radio/index.html
6
Please spare the false piety. In this age of Tarantino Hollywood, Kardashian Family, Twerking Madonna on Super Bowl sets, Grand Theft Auto video games and the Bill Clinton impeachment process with the Blue Dress at the Smithsonian, can you honestly point to Trump for male misbehavior? This accelerating decline of moral guidance for our youth started years ago and is still continuing. It is incredibly difficult to raise children in this day in age. Our election process, once a shining example of Democracy, is now a 24 hour porn show.
23
"......can you honestly point to Trump for male misbehavior?".
Yes, yes, yes! He may be a symptom of a society-wide problem, but all the more reason to drawn the line and declare that at least the Presidency is out of bounds for such a poor role model, all the more so following the excellent example that President Obama set. And all the more so because of how disrespectfully this most gracious of Presidents was treated by his political and media opponents I'll never forget one example that seems to have faded from the nation's collective memory.
Early in his presidency he scheduled a nation-wide closed-circuit telecast to school, advocating the importance of hard work and learning. Unexceptionable? Not on your life, The minute it was announced, politicians and pundits denounced it as left-wing indoctrination and a campaign was launched against it. Some schools caved and did not show it; others had various permission or exemption procedures.
What our sons and daughters learned from this was that the President is not the President of all the people if he's not of the Right party - or ethnicity. Or gender - heaven knows what kind of vilification and obstruction President Clinton will face for just doing her job, which her record of public service has excellently equipped her for.
Yes, yes, yes! He may be a symptom of a society-wide problem, but all the more reason to drawn the line and declare that at least the Presidency is out of bounds for such a poor role model, all the more so following the excellent example that President Obama set. And all the more so because of how disrespectfully this most gracious of Presidents was treated by his political and media opponents I'll never forget one example that seems to have faded from the nation's collective memory.
Early in his presidency he scheduled a nation-wide closed-circuit telecast to school, advocating the importance of hard work and learning. Unexceptionable? Not on your life, The minute it was announced, politicians and pundits denounced it as left-wing indoctrination and a campaign was launched against it. Some schools caved and did not show it; others had various permission or exemption procedures.
What our sons and daughters learned from this was that the President is not the President of all the people if he's not of the Right party - or ethnicity. Or gender - heaven knows what kind of vilification and obstruction President Clinton will face for just doing her job, which her record of public service has excellently equipped her for.
34
I'm confused by your comment. I raised an intelligent, respectful, inclusive son who does not engage in macho or misogynistic behavior. And yet he works out in a gym, played violent video games, and was fully immersed in American culture. What am I missing?
11
Boys and girls learned a new word last week from Donald J. Trump: groped.
If he keeps this up, soon they'll be talking like Donald J. Trump.
If he keeps this up, soon they'll be talking like Donald J. Trump.
11
Trump is bad for this country on every level. I am glad to see a piece like this written because I am tired of being insulted by the insinuation that all males are pigs. While it seems to be true that men and women are generally wired a bit differently regarding sexuality, it does not mean that men are impulsive by nature. It also does not mean that men have a general disrespect for women or enjoy treating them like objects. After all, most men (beside Trump) marry for compatibility, companionship, deep friendship and, yes, true love. Most men do not marry Playboy models because they are not known for their substance. For those who do, it rarely ever lasts.
Men are not boys and even boys do not act like the pig that Trump portrays. Of all of my close friends in high school, only one made rude comments but not even at the level of grotesqueness that Trump does. We were normal boys and, although we had raging hormones, we valued close relationships.
One way to tamp down this deplorable behavior is to trounce Trump and down ballot Republicans in the upcoming election. That would send a clear message as to what is unacceptable in our society.
Men are not boys and even boys do not act like the pig that Trump portrays. Of all of my close friends in high school, only one made rude comments but not even at the level of grotesqueness that Trump does. We were normal boys and, although we had raging hormones, we valued close relationships.
One way to tamp down this deplorable behavior is to trounce Trump and down ballot Republicans in the upcoming election. That would send a clear message as to what is unacceptable in our society.
35
This is positive development for boys and men in this Country. For years the Left having control of the media and academia have beaten men into shells of their true and former selves. Look at the men that this ideology has produced they are weak and effeminate and this has been directed at mostly white men. Men of other colors and nationalities are allowed to maintain their prowess and is celebrated. Muslim men walk 3 strides ahead of their fully covered wives in NJ and nothing is said or written about this by Liberals and yet this is a full display of masculinity. For myself, Trump and his movement has awakened a part of me that was always there but was buried deep in order to conform to Liberal conventions. Masculinity is not a "toxic" brew as many on the Left claim, it is responsible for great accomplishments throughout history. What we have witnessed over the last several years is the harm femininity has done to our society. People are not happy with their lives, the natural laws and truths cannot be subverted. The happiest women are those with men who are masculine. Deep down we all know this to be true.
6
I'm curious - would GW Bush, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld be among your ideals of "masculine" men?
5
Um. One can be masculine without demeaning women. Maybe give that a shot.
5
Trump is not masculine at all. In fact, he is fearful wimp-scared of anyone or anything "different" from himself. Trump is a horrible example for our society. Even my 12 year old said, he would be sent to the principal's office if he spoke like Trump at his school.
8
This otherwise informative article overlooks one of the major breeding grounds for aggressive, abusive behavior by men (but not only): the American workplace where for decades the "tyrannical boss" has been lauded by business and mainstream media. This is the world Donald Trump comes from and where his violent personality first received legitimacy as an acceptable management method, which he brought to reality TV and now to the Presidential race. Human Resources departments may expect and require collaborative skills on the part of employees but all too often tolerate aggressive behavior by senior managers and regular employees. The workplace, perhaps as much as if not more than the schoolroom and the athletic field, is where men (and women) learn the abusive ways of authority and power.
16
Type 1. Boastful, constantly whining, addicted to making foul, insulting, and obscene utterances, incapable of taking responsibility for one's decision, always scapegoating others for one's own problems, incapable of absorbing new and relevant information, openly bragging about one's lower anatomy and one's "magnetic" power on women, convinced that pretty and young women are just toys for his libido and tentacles, engaging in behaviors that would seem morally repugnant even to a seven-year old, and suffering from a delusion of grandeur.
Type 2. Never boastful and whining, taking responsibility for one's decision, refusing to scapegoat others for one's problems, treating all human beings with dignity and respect, willing to learn to improve one's mind and spirit, looking for ways to solve problems peacefully, willing to stand up against bullies and protect the vulnerable, and fully aware that allowing one's actions
must not only meet the lower standard of the law but also rise to the above it if one seeks to be a role model.
Question: Given a choice between two people, one Type 1 and the other Type 2, which one should one pick for a friend, spouse, or leader?
Type 2. Never boastful and whining, taking responsibility for one's decision, refusing to scapegoat others for one's problems, treating all human beings with dignity and respect, willing to learn to improve one's mind and spirit, looking for ways to solve problems peacefully, willing to stand up against bullies and protect the vulnerable, and fully aware that allowing one's actions
must not only meet the lower standard of the law but also rise to the above it if one seeks to be a role model.
Question: Given a choice between two people, one Type 1 and the other Type 2, which one should one pick for a friend, spouse, or leader?
21
Boys need strong male role models. Let's start with journalism. In reaction to the Trump parade of horribles, the Times has been publishing a string of stories and op-eds telling men and boys what we need to be and do. Someone has apparently decided that women are best suited to this task.
I disagree. Men's voices matter most on this subject, as women's do when the subject is the rights and responsibilities of women in today's world. And, please, let these men be something other than professors of gender studies.
I disagree. Men's voices matter most on this subject, as women's do when the subject is the rights and responsibilities of women in today's world. And, please, let these men be something other than professors of gender studies.
8
My guess is that those sons didn't need Donald Trump to learn these "lessons." Their fathers taught them well enough. That's where Trump's supporters came from. They were not found under a cabbage.
16
My sons learned how to behave a long time ago. They have no difficulty understanding that Trump is not a good man.
25
Dinosaurs will be dinosaurs and thus did advise the impatient human to wait in line for their time.
3
As a 13 teen year old boy I think Donald is the perfect person to run for president. He is a great example to follow by. I wish I was old enough to vote because mine would go to him.
10
After looking at the title, the picture, and the nominee, one must undoubtedly come to the conclusion that this isn't a case of "Boys will be Boys" -- as much as it's a case of White Boys will be Boys, because make no mistake about it, Donald Trump doesn not appeal to, nor does he have the Black vote.
And since that is the case, it ultimately goes back to "White Privilege" -- where there is no better exemplification of it, than Donald Trump himself.
Once America and Americans can come to terms with that, they stand a chance of recognizing the false ideals of masculinity that goes along with it.
And since that is the case, it ultimately goes back to "White Privilege" -- where there is no better exemplification of it, than Donald Trump himself.
Once America and Americans can come to terms with that, they stand a chance of recognizing the false ideals of masculinity that goes along with it.
14
I attended an anti-Trump rally at one of his fundraisers near the University of Oklahoma recently. It was disheartening seeing many male students hollering "Build that wall!" etc. as they passed us on their way to OU vs. Ohio State. I didn't see any female students demonstrating support for Trump, just rambunctious college men.
13
I'm a college senior, and the vast majority of my Trump-supporting peers are obnoxious white men from privileged backgrounds, people who say things like "I'm not homophobic or anything, but gay marriage is repulsive." Society will reward some of these boys by hooking them up with cushy jobs in the finance industry, but others are coming to the sad realization that they have no marketable skills other than drinking beer and demeaning women.
Imagine having a masculinity as fragile as Trump's. Sad!
Imagine having a masculinity as fragile as Trump's. Sad!
30
Men and boys who treat women and girls like Donnie does make up a large segment of the "deplorables."
13
LOL - the constant depiction of Trump supporters as ignorant, crude uneducated white men fails to pick up why those affected feel they way they do. The preponderance of coverage only builds on that premise. But there are many uncounted smart, professional, educated successful businessmen who disagree with your conclusion. They are just as tired of the liberal whining, of the excuses of unfair treatment and bias, that pervades the coverage. And the polls are not likely to collect their opinion. Who would want to be chastised by the media and those clueless elites as ignorant, crude and uneducated. Writers and pollsters only hear their own song.
6
Ah, but at least they can sing and not snuffle constantly in a trough of ordure.
Amen!
Have you taken into consideration the fact that these depictions are not manufacured out of thin air -- and therefore, not entirely baseless???
Think not???
Take a look at the picture in this article, and other photos of those attending Trump rallies ---- then listen more closely to what he's saying.
There may be "smart, professional, educated, successful business men" who support Trump's racist and sexists rants .... but they're not in the majority.
Think not???
Take a look at the picture in this article, and other photos of those attending Trump rallies ---- then listen more closely to what he's saying.
There may be "smart, professional, educated, successful business men" who support Trump's racist and sexists rants .... but they're not in the majority.
3
This just reminds me of warren zevan's song "just an excitable boy".
2
"Our sons" are not learning anything from Donald Trump that they haven't already accessed a thousand times on social media. If they've received the proper grounding in how to behave, they'll know better. If they haven't, they won't. There! Now all those gender studies professors can start furrowing their brows over some other issue.
3
Think about big-time sports, where being an old-fashioned sportsman (good winner and loser, team player, fair player, etc.) have been replaced by celebrating your play even if your team is losing badly, putting your free-agency prospects ahead of the team's success, trash-talking, etc. Gee, I wonder why middle-schoolers act the way they do? Sports have lost their sportsmen (and women who seem to think the way to succeed is to mimic every bad behavior the men exhibit).
4
Honestly...? I do not believe Trump is a good person. At heart, he is a arrogant, self sentered, money driven businessman. Should he lead the country? No. But to write an article criticizing his character without mention of Hilary is complete propaganda. So lets do this... our children are learning that if you have money, power, and connections you are untouchable by the government. You get a free pass because everyone around you will be given immunity. Are we trying to raise more children who feel like the victim of this cruel harsh world? Because we don't need any more of them.
7
well said Eric. Trump 2k16
1
This country's issues with gender identity (of which the Trump "persona" is only one extreme symptom) go way back and are ubiquitous. Every time I return from spending time in Europe I am shocked by the way so many American young men look and behave: big-boned, muscle-bound, sloppily dressed, swaggering, loud... And I am always mystified by what their neatly attired girlfriend might find attractive about such Neanderthals... Inevitably, to the appearance corresponds a state of mind.
But if one spends only a few minutes studying the real educators of our time - tv, Hollywood movies and the official religion: sports - one realizes that the most caricatural hypermasculinity and hyperfemininity are the norm, with gay stereotypes (and recently transgenderism) the only acceptable alternative. There is nothing in between.
The pressure on everyone to conform is pervasive and almost irresistible. It is the "package" that makes docile consumers out of us.
But if one spends only a few minutes studying the real educators of our time - tv, Hollywood movies and the official religion: sports - one realizes that the most caricatural hypermasculinity and hyperfemininity are the norm, with gay stereotypes (and recently transgenderism) the only acceptable alternative. There is nothing in between.
The pressure on everyone to conform is pervasive and almost irresistible. It is the "package" that makes docile consumers out of us.
14
Praying the silver lining from the avalanche of shamefulness will be the ultimate teachable moments for boys and for us all on how not to behave.
3
donald-trump-is-not-a-good-person-and-yes-he-is-much-worse-than-hillary-clinton
27
I think more than a politician our kids are being influenced more by music, tv, etc. The media kids are consuming has only gotten worse in the past 20 years. I would just as well my kids turn it all off. If there is something people should be standing up against and seeking to change it is these daily influences. These are who our kids look up to.
1
Glad I have a daughter. Besides the fact that she'll have to withstand another generawtin of people like trump, of course.
7
The lessing here is if you're born rich you can do whatever you want and behave in whatever manner suits you. That loathsome orange-haired ape is a 10-year old bully whose daddy's money gave him the luxury of never having to grow up and live with the consequences of his actions. Let's not elect him to the highest office in the land, please, he'll break everything, just like 10-year old bullies do.
14
Before my daughter was born, I read that "In her later life, a woman's relationships with men are rooted in her relationship with her father." That was likely the most important advice I ever encountered. I tried very hard to instill self-respect, self-confidence, a sense of independence, and self-worth in my daughter as best I could - although I confess I recognized my daughter's strength, substance and maturity almost as soon as she could walk and talk. "All by mineself," was the catchphrase to describe her growing up.
Involvement with the opposite sex isn't always rooted in the father-son or mother-daughter relationship. It's incumbent on fathers to teach their daughters what is, or isn't, acceptable and incumbent on mothers to teach their sons the same. My daughter, now 27 and multi-degreed, always had high expectations of her boyfriends and has been rarely disappointed. This is satisfying.
Equally satisfying, though, is the true story of the daughter of one of my college baseball teammates who was being constantly harassed - both physically and verbally - by a member of her high school's coed golf team. After many requests that the boy cease his actions, she responded herself. She beat the tar out of him, putting him in the emergency room.
Retribution against a groper- on occasion - is often as effective for a woman as having high expectations of the men she encounters.
Involvement with the opposite sex isn't always rooted in the father-son or mother-daughter relationship. It's incumbent on fathers to teach their daughters what is, or isn't, acceptable and incumbent on mothers to teach their sons the same. My daughter, now 27 and multi-degreed, always had high expectations of her boyfriends and has been rarely disappointed. This is satisfying.
Equally satisfying, though, is the true story of the daughter of one of my college baseball teammates who was being constantly harassed - both physically and verbally - by a member of her high school's coed golf team. After many requests that the boy cease his actions, she responded herself. She beat the tar out of him, putting him in the emergency room.
Retribution against a groper- on occasion - is often as effective for a woman as having high expectations of the men she encounters.
10
I would have appreciated if Anderson Cooper had asked Melania Trump on CNN what she is telling their 11 year old son about what is acceptable language and behavior for boys and men. Has she explicitly told their son that Dad was way out of line even if he was "just talking" and not telling the truth when he said that he grabbed women's genitals and kissed them without their consent?
21
For those of us who have been in New York for the past three decades, none of this behavior is surprising when it comes to Donald Trump. He's created and promoted this persona; it has been noted that Spy magazine called him the "short-fingered vulgarian" back in the '80's. What is surprising, despite his own admissions, braggadocio, and overall behavior is that he has gotten this far to become president of the United States of America.
Mr. Trump is the adult version of the worst kid you knew in junior high school/middle school: calls everyone derisive names, bullies or makes fun of physical appearance or disabilities, makes crude remarks to women, and when called to answer for this behavior, explains it away by offering that someone else did something worse than he. There's no accountability or responsibility, no apologies. In high school, the principal would send him home. I hope the voters do too.
Mr. Trump is the adult version of the worst kid you knew in junior high school/middle school: calls everyone derisive names, bullies or makes fun of physical appearance or disabilities, makes crude remarks to women, and when called to answer for this behavior, explains it away by offering that someone else did something worse than he. There's no accountability or responsibility, no apologies. In high school, the principal would send him home. I hope the voters do too.
31
Just wanted to republish this comment by K Yates that I thought got lost way down in the responses to william phillips:
Thank you for the use of the term "prickteaser." However it needs more definition.
Does it mean a woman who is walking down the street wearing a dress? Wearing a short dress? Minding her own business while sitting at a bar? It is never clear in this society. There are so many ways to offend while going about the business of inhabiting a female form.
What do we call a man who refers to women as prickteasers, especially in the context of doctoral dissertation? Perhaps we call him a person in need of more education. And we could certainly call him worse.
Thank you for the use of the term "prickteaser." However it needs more definition.
Does it mean a woman who is walking down the street wearing a dress? Wearing a short dress? Minding her own business while sitting at a bar? It is never clear in this society. There are so many ways to offend while going about the business of inhabiting a female form.
What do we call a man who refers to women as prickteasers, especially in the context of doctoral dissertation? Perhaps we call him a person in need of more education. And we could certainly call him worse.
16
I am actually seeing some senior high school boys take offense to Trump, and their classmates who support Trump. These are young men who would not understand sexual assault and sexual bias prior to this election. I am also seeing women, who have put up with sexism and sexual assault, begin to see that it is not normal or accepted.
8
Men now thinks it's okay to level abuse at women. The Bernie Bros were the brothers hand in hand with the Trump supporters with regards to language. The only thing I see is endless whining and off the charts senses of entitlement. Losing with grace is a thing of the past. Getting out voted brings out charges of cheating, seriously, losing with grace is dead. Welcome to the new world where if you out scream anyone you think that make you the winner. Note: Sanders lost the South in very large amounts. Being told my vote didn't matter has not made me feel more gracious to the ones who voted and lost, but I didn't name call. Once again, it's called losing with grace.
7
most men in the U.S. most definitely do not think its okay to abuse women. also most men in the U.S. are voting for DT, like I am. Look he's always been a womanizer, whats the surprise. To me, and this is just my opinion, being a womanizer is not nearly as damaging to our country than being someone who is keeping secrets from the American and lying to their faces (Hillary Clinton). Just my opinion. I understand why people don't like Trump, but it doesn't change my mind about this. He seems to love his family well too which i respect. regardless, both candidates have issues that are awful, just Trump's are a little less concealed than Hillary's.
2
It's just time for men to admit our abject failure to protect women. I call it my inner Papa Bear and it is a perfect complement to Mama Bear. Both should be about a ferocious protective love.
And the reality is good men have failed and we don't know how to get up. And we don't want to admit it. Peace for women should be the number one public safety issue for the world. It's right there. One in three women are the victims of sexual harassment or worse. Imagine if there was a potentially deadly disease that afflicted ONE BILLION people and another TWO BILLION are afraid to contract it. The whole world would be focused on a solution. That disease is violence against women and it did not come from outer space. It came from men, we invented it.
It's time for all good men to stand up. It is our job, as it is in almost all nature, to confront the wolf and protect our female families. All good men want to do this. We do this by the way we think and act and we must be willing to risk ourselves to protect all women from predators. It's natural law to me. And it starts with sending the wanna be big Orange Predator-In-Chief and the White Nationalists behind him, back to their hell hole.
And the reality is good men have failed and we don't know how to get up. And we don't want to admit it. Peace for women should be the number one public safety issue for the world. It's right there. One in three women are the victims of sexual harassment or worse. Imagine if there was a potentially deadly disease that afflicted ONE BILLION people and another TWO BILLION are afraid to contract it. The whole world would be focused on a solution. That disease is violence against women and it did not come from outer space. It came from men, we invented it.
It's time for all good men to stand up. It is our job, as it is in almost all nature, to confront the wolf and protect our female families. All good men want to do this. We do this by the way we think and act and we must be willing to risk ourselves to protect all women from predators. It's natural law to me. And it starts with sending the wanna be big Orange Predator-In-Chief and the White Nationalists behind him, back to their hell hole.
14
Dump Trump! If we want to show our children and our youth what behavior and thinking leads to success, Trump must be defeated. Presidency was once thought of as a way to SERVE all people, not as a platform to CRUSH all people the person in office deems to be sub-human (all females and all non-whites).
15
Do girls have a shining role model anywhere?
1
Nah,
Just some woman who devoted 30 years of her life to public service, graduated Yale, worked on the Watergate investigation.
Slim pickins eh?
Just some woman who devoted 30 years of her life to public service, graduated Yale, worked on the Watergate investigation.
Slim pickins eh?
16
Michelle Obama
13
Do girls have a shining role model anywhere? How about:
Navy Admiral Michelle Howard;
Senator Elizabeth Warren;
Ruth Ginsburg, Supreme Court Justice;
Mae Jemison, Astronaut;
Carolyn Widney Greider, Nobel Science Prize Winner.
Just to name a few American women.
And their moms, one would hope, just as boys deserve a dad they can admire and emulate.
Navy Admiral Michelle Howard;
Senator Elizabeth Warren;
Ruth Ginsburg, Supreme Court Justice;
Mae Jemison, Astronaut;
Carolyn Widney Greider, Nobel Science Prize Winner.
Just to name a few American women.
And their moms, one would hope, just as boys deserve a dad they can admire and emulate.
5
For Trump, one definition of a man is one who manages to get four military draft deferments for "bone spurs" in his heel, which never stopped him from playing 18 holes of golf.
13
If you are allowing anyone in the media to influence your child then you as a parent are doing a crappy job period. You are being lazy and not restricting their excess to media enough. I am also guessing that you are not having the appropriate conversations either; like "Don't you ever act like him it will only get you in trouble". There is absolutely no excuse for not explaining to your children that their role models should be people they know, not people they see on the news in the media or on tv. Instead of complaining you should be using him as an example of what not to do.
- mother of a 21 year old boy
- mother of a 21 year old boy
2
Hey, maybe it's the part about dodging the draft that will appeal to the lads.
6
It isn't just the boys, it's everyone, male and female who are losers with no successes of their own that find Trump's appeals to hate and fear attractive and who now feel it's ok to behave just like he does. Some interesting times ahead.
9
Gonads Over Pudendums
GOP 2016
GOP 2016
10
Gonads include ovaries as well as testicles.
(Despite that technical quibble, I much appreciate your commentary on here.)
(Despite that technical quibble, I much appreciate your commentary on here.)
Men who are secure in their masculinity do not brag, boast, or bully. They do not abuse women, and they never speak of their sexual encounters. In fact when you find a man who engages in this kind of behavior, it is a red light indication that they have serious doubts about their manhood. It is exactly for this reason that Trump is unfit to be President - he exhibits all the warning signs of being seriously emotionally unstable.
35
You nailed it.
3
W.A. Spitzer--I have no idea what it means when someone says: "secure in their own masculinity." What does that mean? Anyone?
4
"secure in their own masculinity." What does that mean?"....Lets go in the other direction. Someone who is not secure in their own masculinity has a desperate need to continually demonstrate to themselves and to others that they are a virile male. They brag about how big and tough they are; they bully and abuse others especially women, they have need to have multiple sexual conquest and boast openly so that everyone can see how big a man they are. They do these things because they are emotionally insecure.....if they don't keep showing themselves and others what a big man they are, they are fearful people will recognize that they are not a man at all.
8
'He's doing stuff that if I tried it in school, I'd get in trouble.'
He's also doing stuff that if he tried it in the Oval Office, could plunge the U.S. into a deep recession, instigate civil unrest at home, undermine long-standing trade and defense alliances and incite armed conflict abroad.
What the heck is our electorate thinking, assuming it is thinking at all?
He's also doing stuff that if he tried it in the Oval Office, could plunge the U.S. into a deep recession, instigate civil unrest at home, undermine long-standing trade and defense alliances and incite armed conflict abroad.
What the heck is our electorate thinking, assuming it is thinking at all?
94
Most of the stuff he does, and gets away with, sends other, poorer, less influencial people to jail.
7
We need to separate a few things about being a man. There should be no question that testosterone fuels a strong drive for sex. It also fuels competitive urges. For too many of us it also fuels rage and foolish acts of aggression.
One of my earliest memories of something my father taught me was "Don't Hit Girls!" Come on guys, get a clue, it's not all about you.
One of my earliest memories of something my father taught me was "Don't Hit Girls!" Come on guys, get a clue, it's not all about you.
19
Geez. What did our sons learn from the adulation of JFK and Bill Clinton? What did our daughters learn from the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings, where all those Democratic Senators rolled over and showed their usual gutlessness?
A coarse boor is ultimately less dangerous than a cultured one. JFK wasn't patrician, he was as insecure and father-ridden as Trump. Clinton wasn't charming, he was the classic child of an alcoholic who needs to prove that everyone loves him and nobody can resist him. And both those revered Presidents made many dreadful policy decisions that caused harm decades and decades afterwards. Ask the Laotians about JFK's judgment.
I don't want a Trump Presidency. I don't want a Hillary Clinton Presidency. Either of those results will show our sons and our daughters that there's no downside to grifting.
A coarse boor is ultimately less dangerous than a cultured one. JFK wasn't patrician, he was as insecure and father-ridden as Trump. Clinton wasn't charming, he was the classic child of an alcoholic who needs to prove that everyone loves him and nobody can resist him. And both those revered Presidents made many dreadful policy decisions that caused harm decades and decades afterwards. Ask the Laotians about JFK's judgment.
I don't want a Trump Presidency. I don't want a Hillary Clinton Presidency. Either of those results will show our sons and our daughters that there's no downside to grifting.
13
Bill Clinton isn't running for office. How did you miss that?
7
Yet one of these two people will be our next president. As a Bernie supporter, I can tell you I wish the democratic nomination had gone differently, however I am crystal clear that I don't want Trump anywhere near the White House!!!
2
In other words, the child is father to the wife? I'm confused. What is that you do want?
5
Trying to formulate a theory of root causes for the atrocious cognitive processes of Trump and others who see others and themselves as he does, I have a short list of guesses: license, impunity, and inadequacy. License derives from privilege; privilege derives from class: class derives from power, which derives from money or social status. Money is obvious. Step on anyone to take more; get away with it if you have enough and people put up with you because you pay them. Social status derives from things like sports star or celebrity, hence the "locker room" excuse. Impunity is assumed or granted by/to people who grab or are allowed license. Physical strength is another enabler of license and impunity I can tnink of. Finally, feelings of inadequacy and/or lousy role models provide the emotional energy to engage in hostile and disgusting behavior. Find yourself in my model if you like or emulate a man like Trump.
5
It's time to bring back two abandoned archetypes: the gentleman and the mensch. The gentlemen exhibits grace and self control under pressure, and he treats everyone with courtesy. He always treats women with respect, never condescension. The mensch takes care of his family, helps the sick and the poor, fulfills his civic duties, and stands up for justice. Neither the gentleman nor the mensch counts the cost of doing the right thing.
Where did these men go? When did American men lose interest in growing up?
Where did these men go? When did American men lose interest in growing up?
58
To Kaleberg,
Thanks. I'm older - 65 - but those were things instilled in me by my father. Maybe that doesn't happen anymore - I'm somewhat out-of-touch with child rearing. A new commitment to that may be the "silver lining" to this whole sordid mess.
Thanks. I'm older - 65 - but those were things instilled in me by my father. Maybe that doesn't happen anymore - I'm somewhat out-of-touch with child rearing. A new commitment to that may be the "silver lining" to this whole sordid mess.
15
Neither the gentleman or the mensch have much place on ESPN and its ilk. Our media rewards those who say outrageous things, or "takes," on sports radio talk shows, show up in fancy suits and blather every sports cliche in the book, and those "men" who show up shirtless and painted to college football games. I'm tired of it.
2
These are great archetypes to help guide our sons to being upstanding and exemplary men. Ultimately it is up to us as fathers to model this to our sons and to express explicitly that these are our values. The problem, of course, is that there are lots of men aside from Trump who fall short of that standard or who don't even share the aspiration to be a gentleman and mensch. That being said, it is on us to hold this up to our sons and to show them how we strive to achieve that standard, even when we fall short.
Talk to your boys! Show them your best! Tell them that life worth living is a struggle to be better and that there are rewards beyond the material. Good luck and go get 'em!
Talk to your boys! Show them your best! Tell them that life worth living is a struggle to be better and that there are rewards beyond the material. Good luck and go get 'em!
2
What about what young girls are learning from this? They are learning that a powerful man with a loud mouth and a ton of money can say whatever he wants about women and get away with it. How does this affect their feelings for boys or future relationships with others? What Trump is doing is something that any person who has power and a spotlight on him/her has done: lie, lie, and then say "Look at them. They are so (fill in the blank) that you can't believe them." Worse yet, plenty of people don't.
And for boys it's bad because he's demonstrating behavior that is anything but conducive to civil relations between the sexes at work or at home. No one likes to be objectified but he's doing it in public and then trying to say it's all a lie or smear campaign. He said it. He should own it just the way Bill Clinton should have owned what he did with Monica Lewinski. Insulting women is not going to win him friends or cordial enemies. If I had any children I would be using Trump's behavior as a lesson on how not to get along in this world.
Clearly Donald Trump's golden rule is not "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." He whines whenever he's caught, denies, lies, and tries to blame the victim. Unbecoming behavior for a presidential candidate let alone a president. After this is over I hope that Trump is returned to the obscurity he deserves.
And for boys it's bad because he's demonstrating behavior that is anything but conducive to civil relations between the sexes at work or at home. No one likes to be objectified but he's doing it in public and then trying to say it's all a lie or smear campaign. He said it. He should own it just the way Bill Clinton should have owned what he did with Monica Lewinski. Insulting women is not going to win him friends or cordial enemies. If I had any children I would be using Trump's behavior as a lesson on how not to get along in this world.
Clearly Donald Trump's golden rule is not "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." He whines whenever he's caught, denies, lies, and tries to blame the victim. Unbecoming behavior for a presidential candidate let alone a president. After this is over I hope that Trump is returned to the obscurity he deserves.
29
While the left and especially the Obama's love to rail against Donald Trump for objectifying women, they certainly have no problem welcoming to the White House any number of rap/hip-hop artists whose views on women make Trump look like a Saint. How quick they are to uphold these entertainers as being "excellent role models" for their children. They do this with a straight face while at the same time condemning Trump as sexist and misogynistic. Hypocrisy is strong with the Democrats. You cant have it both ways.
6
None of those musicians are running for office, just like Clint Eastwood isn't running for office. A big part of the problem these days is people who can't tell the difference between a public servant and an entertainer.
87
You, like many, many others, seem not to see the distinction that Trump said he sexually touched women without their consent because he felt he could. Let me say it again: without their consent. A suggestive song or stage performance is not the same as stating that that fame permits him to (once again) without consent, manhandle women. And that he has done so. More than once.
10
I get that. They are still being held up as role models and Stevie Wonder can see the hypocrisy in this.
2
Consider this pearl:
“We have evidence that if you shift the discourse around boys and give them the cultural support they need to solve problems with strategies other than aggression and to express their feelings without being mocked, they respond just like any human being,” said Juliet A. Williams, professor of gender studies at the University of California, Los Angeles, who wrote a paper titled “Girls Can Be Anything … But Boys Will Be Boys.”
"just like any human being"?
I guess that's what one would expect from a "gender studies" professor.
And where does one get off turning "masculinity" into a plural?
If there is any wonder why college is so expensive, the answer lies in the fact that "gender studies" and "centers on masculinities" even exist.
“We have evidence that if you shift the discourse around boys and give them the cultural support they need to solve problems with strategies other than aggression and to express their feelings without being mocked, they respond just like any human being,” said Juliet A. Williams, professor of gender studies at the University of California, Los Angeles, who wrote a paper titled “Girls Can Be Anything … But Boys Will Be Boys.”
"just like any human being"?
I guess that's what one would expect from a "gender studies" professor.
And where does one get off turning "masculinity" into a plural?
If there is any wonder why college is so expensive, the answer lies in the fact that "gender studies" and "centers on masculinities" even exist.
7
Yeah, I'm sure your assessment in higher education is surely going to change minds.
We must count on "the silver lining" approach. There has to be a reason for the Trump horror show. And, perhaps, it will be this. That "boys will be boys" will turn into a discussion about how boys become "MEN."
There's a difference, Melania.
There's a difference, Melania.
26
Guessing I am an outlier then as I hear Trump kind of talk all the time when I visit job sites on the road and then later back at the office during meetings.
Then on weekends at soccer and football games. And then....
When out on Saturday nights at well known dining establisments.,,,,then Sunday at the museum.
Then on weekends at soccer and football games. And then....
When out on Saturday nights at well known dining establisments.,,,,then Sunday at the museum.
3
"I hear Trump kind of talk all the time"...I have been in lots of locker rooms and in college was a member of a fraternity. There may be raunchy talk and lewd comments, but bragging about being able to sexually assault women because you are a star? - it certainly is not common, and would be regarded as very bad form by other men.
15
So, when you're on a job site, in the office, at soccer and football games, the men are stating "I see a woman and grab her by the [vulgarism here]" or "I just go up and kiss women, I don't wait for them to indicate they want me to." That's what you're saying? "I make so much money I can grab/kiss a woman without their consent and it's great." That's what the men you hang around with say? God help your wife, daughter and any other woman in your community.
6
This is one of the times when young men and boys need a strong male role model. One - a father, uncle, grand dad. older brother, or other responsible adult - who will tell them exactly what they need to hear. "Real men don't do that" - period, no exceptions, no excuses.
26
I traveled a lot for work as my kids were growing up. Thankfully, my father in law was a great role model for my son when I wasn't there. My son (now 26) is still very close to his aging grandfather, calling him every week from across the country.
2
So distressing to read that people think that Trump's attitudes are " shared by a majority of white men", or any men. That are shared by a majority of athletes or police officers. If this were true girls and women could not walk out their door and get to school or work or recreation . That does not mean that no man or situation is dangerous. But most people are decent. Most people work hard, try to treat others well, nurture both their girl and boy children to be good, balanced human beings. This election is certainly a shock and perhaps a wake up to most of us. Why has this speech and behavior been so rewarded? Enough money and you can pretty much do and say anything is one of the lessons of history though.
And I agree with those who point out that girls from about 9-13 can be extremely cruel to other girls. I had daughters and sons. A nice child of either sex has to walk through fire during adolescence. Raising kind and honorable children in an age of reality T.V. , nastier and nastier discourse ,and really bad examples is a true mission. But most people care enough about what is at stake to do their best. I wish they got more recognition.
And I agree with those who point out that girls from about 9-13 can be extremely cruel to other girls. I had daughters and sons. A nice child of either sex has to walk through fire during adolescence. Raising kind and honorable children in an age of reality T.V. , nastier and nastier discourse ,and really bad examples is a true mission. But most people care enough about what is at stake to do their best. I wish they got more recognition.
27
Your sons learn from you. There are all sorts of influences in the world, good and bad. If you have taught them how to choose, your failure.
1
I meant "If you have NOT taught them to choose."
I don't know. I raised two girls and I did not raise them to be weak, overly-emotional, irresponsible, cowardly or stupid. I raised them to be good people and that they are more than their genitalia or their socially-prescribed sex roles. Had they been boys, I like to think that I would have raised them the same way.
9
The "boys will be boys" excuse is an insult to boys and men both - the underlying assumption is that boys (later, men) do not know right from wrong, if they do it doesn't matter, and in any case, neither has enough self-control or agency to be held responsible for their bad behavior (though, paradoxically, they do seem in the eyes of society to be "worthy" of all credit for their successes).
In the case of inappropriate sexual behavior, by "blaming" girls or women for being treated inappropriately, boys and men are actually crediting girls and women with higher levels of intellectual capacity and a higher sense of morality.
So...what are our sons learning from Donald Trump?...how to be a liar, a narcissist, a racist, a misogynist, a tax evader, and a cheat...how to live a life of greed, selfishness, and entitlement, all within a framework of white supremacy...how to yell, how to make any logical argument using only four words, how to blame others for your own shortcomings, how to whine...in short, how to lead a life of dishonor, dissatisfaction, and disservice to one's self and to those around us during the course of our lives.
In more than 50 years on this planet, I've never known or seen a worse human being - the worst possible "role model" one could imagine; influence on a child by Trump is child abuse, and influence on an adult is assault...either way, these are dangerous lessons to inflict on individuals, and dangerous norms to promote within a society.
In the case of inappropriate sexual behavior, by "blaming" girls or women for being treated inappropriately, boys and men are actually crediting girls and women with higher levels of intellectual capacity and a higher sense of morality.
So...what are our sons learning from Donald Trump?...how to be a liar, a narcissist, a racist, a misogynist, a tax evader, and a cheat...how to live a life of greed, selfishness, and entitlement, all within a framework of white supremacy...how to yell, how to make any logical argument using only four words, how to blame others for your own shortcomings, how to whine...in short, how to lead a life of dishonor, dissatisfaction, and disservice to one's self and to those around us during the course of our lives.
In more than 50 years on this planet, I've never known or seen a worse human being - the worst possible "role model" one could imagine; influence on a child by Trump is child abuse, and influence on an adult is assault...either way, these are dangerous lessons to inflict on individuals, and dangerous norms to promote within a society.
40
Exactly!
t-rump is a degenerate even before his disgusting comments on women.
I also can't stand that "men are from mars , women venus" bull.
How provincial to think all men, REAL men, mindlessly watch tv and are pigs.
t-rump is a degenerate even before his disgusting comments on women.
I also can't stand that "men are from mars , women venus" bull.
How provincial to think all men, REAL men, mindlessly watch tv and are pigs.
3
These types of columns are laughable because they expose the blindness writers develop as they promote their political agenda. Trump is bad for a number of reasons and the writer includes "objectifying women" as one of them. However, since it looks like Trump is out, let's not forget that that means Bill Clinton is the new "First Gentleman," the role model for males in our nation.
I see it as a lose-lose for women either way. Hillary can't lecture on the treatment of women because she could not even corral her own husband and certainly, Bill Clinton can't give a pro-female speech, he's been a voracious consumer of women even after his marriage, and even at least once while he sat as the highest elected seat in the land.
But now we open the debate on Trump and the treatment of women and tout "that woman" who says Trump fondled her on a plane and stressed her out for life, yet she cannot give the year, month, date or flight number to prove they ever rode on a plane together. The NYTines said they "vetted" her story by talking to and checking her friends, neighbors, book club members, BFFs, grandma, and Facebook likes.
I think Trump is a moron who can't focus on the big picture as evidenced by his feud with the SNL comedy show or the beauty contest winner earlier this year.
But now we have to hear women roar as they march Bill Clinton into the role of American manliness suggests women have short memories or maybe, the more things change, the more they will stay the same.
I see it as a lose-lose for women either way. Hillary can't lecture on the treatment of women because she could not even corral her own husband and certainly, Bill Clinton can't give a pro-female speech, he's been a voracious consumer of women even after his marriage, and even at least once while he sat as the highest elected seat in the land.
But now we open the debate on Trump and the treatment of women and tout "that woman" who says Trump fondled her on a plane and stressed her out for life, yet she cannot give the year, month, date or flight number to prove they ever rode on a plane together. The NYTines said they "vetted" her story by talking to and checking her friends, neighbors, book club members, BFFs, grandma, and Facebook likes.
I think Trump is a moron who can't focus on the big picture as evidenced by his feud with the SNL comedy show or the beauty contest winner earlier this year.
But now we have to hear women roar as they march Bill Clinton into the role of American manliness suggests women have short memories or maybe, the more things change, the more they will stay the same.
5
Okay, so Bill Clinton had extramarital affairs. Despite a few people whose accusations don't check out, there's no suggestion any of this was abusive or coercive, anything other than consensual. Deplore it if you like, but this is not uncommon among men in highly competitive, visible professions.
How is this remotely equivalent to a lifetime pattern of leering, pawing, and groping women who were simply in Trump's presence? To say this is the same thing is to say that consent and intention mean nothing when it's a woman involved.
How is this remotely equivalent to a lifetime pattern of leering, pawing, and groping women who were simply in Trump's presence? To say this is the same thing is to say that consent and intention mean nothing when it's a woman involved.
13
I've said for decades that about a third of Americans are like Trump has shown himself to be.
Nothing new there.
What's new is that more men and more women are willing to openly address the avowed racism and nasty sexism displayed by these angry little boys.
Continuing to call them out is what will "make American great again."
Nothing new there.
What's new is that more men and more women are willing to openly address the avowed racism and nasty sexism displayed by these angry little boys.
Continuing to call them out is what will "make American great again."
20
Ponder this, Donald Trump would be one of supporters had he not grown up with the wealth and privilege he was born into. Just take away the money, and what is left is the pathos.
16
I think Ms Miller is overly pessimistic. Trump isn't teaching boys anything new. He's simply behaving the way a high percentage of eleven to thirteen-year-old boys, particularly the insecure ones, have always behaved.
In some Asian cultures it is considered normal for over-sixties to become children again. Trump may be an exemplar of the behavior that makes this reasonable.
-dlj.
In some Asian cultures it is considered normal for over-sixties to become children again. Trump may be an exemplar of the behavior that makes this reasonable.
-dlj.
3
Clearly you don't know many 11-13 year old boys. The ones I know - including my own 13 year old and his friends - are appalled at Trump's behavior and can't understand why he doesn't get into trouble for behavior that would get them expelled. Stop with the stereotypes. They are light years ahead of your generation in how they interact with the girls around them.
1
My 12 year old son acts more mature than Trump. He knows when someone is being boastful. He understands that you treat others with respect and you do your best not to hurt others' feelings. He approaches those who look different or act different from from him with curiosity rather than contempt--that in the end, we are all more alike than different.
17
Mr Trump certainly fails the "real man" test, especially as he has his wife make excuses for him on national TV. I really liked the blaming Billy Bush part. The only thing he is sorry about is getting called out after having been caught.
15
He's not sorry at all.
It's someone elses fault hes in this mess.
The microphone guy.
The media.
Anything but him.
Deplorable.
It's someone elses fault hes in this mess.
The microphone guy.
The media.
Anything but him.
Deplorable.
5
A friend of mine has two boys, ages 9 and 12. My friend and her husband have banned television news in their home for the past few months because of Trump. They don't want their kids to see or hear him, and they do not discuss the election with the boys. My friend and her husband know the boys will be exposed to Trump in other ways, and in fact they have heard about some of Trump's outrageous statements, which prompted some discussions about him. Nevertheless, they want their home to be a Trump-free zone.
How sad that children have to be protected from a presidential candidate.
How sad that children have to be protected from a presidential candidate.
32
trump-loving parents don't understand the problem
5
We forget that when Mr. Trump excuses himself by using the term "locker room banter", he was the grown up in the locker room, he was 59 years old. The challenge for myself as a coach, and others, is to moderate and clamp down on this type of talk when it exceeds what is reasonable. Yes, sometimes "boys will be boys", but is it our responsibility to turn these boys into men. The president needs to be someone who can set the standards for our country and people. Mr. Trump's words were so beyond anything I have heard in a locker room. Yes, sometimes there is boasting about their "sexual prowess", but never, ever, I can molest with freedom because I am a celebrity.
13
Isn't it amusing he thinks hes some sort of sexual god when in reality, he's a bloated, ruddy faced degenerate.
Delusional.
Delusional.
5
Sweet lovely Melania, out there gamely trying to soften her husband's image. He was only engaging in "boy talk" and was "egged on." The media--ever hot for a new story line and a new twist to push a narrative--talk about how much she's helping (because goodness knows, we're tired of the the endless round looping tape, the endless looping story). But really: a 59-year-old "boy" who can be "egged on"? Even without the accusations of assault, is this really the kind of leader we want for our country? And we know that he can still be "egged on" in his seventies. I hope Bill Clinton is sorry. I hope he's grown up. I know that he isn't afraid of powerful women. But it's clear that Mr. Trump is caught in a time loop himself, and while he says he's changed, it's really hard to see how.
24
I am thinking they learned this much closer to home than from Mr. Trump, but I will say that he has created a public forum.
1
I look at these young boys at Trump rallies and I see hitler youth. These are learned behaviors, someone teaches these kids it's ok, someone teaches to hate the other. Humanity will never learn, we will never evolve. No matter how far we have gotten from hunter gatherers to our present state of so called civilization, our basic primitive brain will be our undoing. I still can't believe I have voted republican, never again. Kids, learn to use your prefrontal cortex. Ignore the primitive brain and it's base urges of flight or fight.
23
Little embarrassed now that the DNC is firing people they had hired to bring violence to Trump rallies?
Let's be clear: Mr. Trump's example is not "hyper-masculinity" it is immature masculine behavior. We cannot excuse it by "boys will be boys." It's telling that the saying is not "men will be men" because this is NOT the behavior we expect or wish from grown men.
As candidate for President he must be held to the standards we hold for adults; Mr. Trump long ago passed any semblance to a boy. In this and in other instances where Mr. Trump lacks self-control either in his own interest or in ours, his lack of articulated programs, and his spiteful destruction as he sees himself losing--NO WHERE do we see a man capable of leading our country.
Don't say he will have advisors; do we really want to elect a man who needs minders?
As candidate for President he must be held to the standards we hold for adults; Mr. Trump long ago passed any semblance to a boy. In this and in other instances where Mr. Trump lacks self-control either in his own interest or in ours, his lack of articulated programs, and his spiteful destruction as he sees himself losing--NO WHERE do we see a man capable of leading our country.
Don't say he will have advisors; do we really want to elect a man who needs minders?
17
Other than the "getting laid" part, I, as a woman, was also raised that I shouldn't be showing my feelings, feel weak, etc...Well, except for the "getting laid" part, anyway. Instead, we're taught that we need to look beautiful/stay thin as long as we can.
7
Right. The word "boys" might be the clue.
Melania thinks "boys" is ok to use - even when her husband was 59, definitely not a boy, and she was pregnant.
Hoping all fathers are including that info in any discussions with their "boys" - no matter how old they are. I hope my grandsons, who are just "boys" now, are told in no uncertain terms, that "boy talk" is inappropriate and disrespectful, no matter locker or anywhere. After all, their mothers, my daughters, and any other females could be hurt by that "boy talk" - a reflection on their honor, and dishonor.
Melania thinks "boys" is ok to use - even when her husband was 59, definitely not a boy, and she was pregnant.
Hoping all fathers are including that info in any discussions with their "boys" - no matter how old they are. I hope my grandsons, who are just "boys" now, are told in no uncertain terms, that "boy talk" is inappropriate and disrespectful, no matter locker or anywhere. After all, their mothers, my daughters, and any other females could be hurt by that "boy talk" - a reflection on their honor, and dishonor.
14
Look on the bright side. These boys are the future gas station attendants, Walmart shelf stockers, and unskilled laborers who will work for peanuts.
Yes, they will always feel like victims just like Trump himself, but we do need people to fill those jobs.
Yes, they will always feel like victims just like Trump himself, but we do need people to fill those jobs.
9
Unfortunately they're also future voters! Having low skill and low wage jobs didn't stop them from electing and standing with Trump. The cycle is unbroken.....
2
My father and a several of my brothers did manual labor for a living, they were also well spoken, well informed and behaved like gentleman as well as being great husbands and fathers. Manual labor doesn't have to equate to boorish behavior.
12
For me, this discussion boils down to something an inmate told me at a regional correctional facility where I teach. He said he finally discovered that instead of trying to be "the man" he's now trying to be "a man". There is hope!
18
I can't shake the memory of a young woman quoted in a recent NYT article saying that, after the recent revelations about Trump's behavior with women, she doesn't understand why her father is still supporting him.
16
Boys will be boys forever and ever. Boys are not men. Besides, we aren't talking about masculinity or femininity, we are talking about what it means to be a good human being.
9
Wake up, America. Thankfully, Trump will lose the election but we're going to have to really pull together in a very conscious effort to defeat his poisonous rhetoric. That must begin with the networks; they've simply got to stop giving him and his family so much airtime!
8
Excellent article. While we have rightfully noted the effect that Trump's view of women can have on our daughters, there has not been enough focus on the effect on our sons.
Trump's apologists, dismissing his boasts about sexual assault as "locker room talk" are telling young boys, who may be getting involved in sports for the first time and trying to learn how to act appropriately, that Trump's behavior is what is expected. The apologists should be ashamed. (So should Trump, but he is not capable of it).
Trump's apologists, dismissing his boasts about sexual assault as "locker room talk" are telling young boys, who may be getting involved in sports for the first time and trying to learn how to act appropriately, that Trump's behavior is what is expected. The apologists should be ashamed. (So should Trump, but he is not capable of it).
10
It is good to know that this election is sparking important discussions both about Trump's bad behavior as well as Bill Clinton's and Hillary's years ago, because it is all unacceptable.
3
That's not what my nephew is learning. He's learning that poor and middle class white voters who deeply distrust government can band together and be a force to be reckoned with. Trump himself is almost secondary to this heady awakening. They love that Republican "suits"who profess small government but entrench money and power must bow to guys who couldn't get an interview at investment firm, much less a job. My nephew was vilified at his high school for his support of Trump, despite his classmates knowing him to be a good egalitarian, even a feminist. I can't stand Trump and think he's a crazy demagogue, but I understand why he's a draw to many young men.
5
"but I understand why he's a draw to many young men."....Please explain what you understand; because unless someone is seriously light between their ears, I don't get it.
9
It astounds and saddens me that the idea that "If you give boys the cultural support they need to solve problems with strategies other than aggression and to express their feelings without being mocked, they respond like any human being" is considered so new that it is the central idea in an academic paper.
I am a male who tries hard to be a "good man," thinks often about what that means, and tries to raise my sons with sensitivity, kindness and decency while still valuing strength (in the form of effort if not always success) and responsibility. Our whole family, my 13 and 11 year old sons included, are sickened by the idea that Trump is celebrated so callously by so many.
I know we are not alone in this, just as my sons and I will not be the only men going through life with the assumption that our first priority is to be good human beings. That will by definition mean we are also good men.
I am a male who tries hard to be a "good man," thinks often about what that means, and tries to raise my sons with sensitivity, kindness and decency while still valuing strength (in the form of effort if not always success) and responsibility. Our whole family, my 13 and 11 year old sons included, are sickened by the idea that Trump is celebrated so callously by so many.
I know we are not alone in this, just as my sons and I will not be the only men going through life with the assumption that our first priority is to be good human beings. That will by definition mean we are also good men.
15
Love your response! Thank you.
2
Phrases such as "that sucks" and "it sucks" became more frequent and more acceptable speech in public places after our last rowdy president, the husband of Hillary Rodham Clinton. What will be detritus that remains this time around from Donald Trump's potty mouth? With the election of either HRC or DT there just might be an elder ogre in the White House. This would confirm something my pastor once related in a sermon, "If you are a dirty young man who doesn't change his ways, you are destined to become a dirty old man."
1
"That sucks" & "it sucks" have been part of public speech for far longer than since the early '90s. I went through high school in the late '70s & it was common discourse then...hardly the fault of Bill Clinton.
2
That phrase was common in public places for a lot longer than that.
1
When I was in college, I played ice hockey all four years—as the only girl on the team.
The young men on my team were okay. They never said or did anything disparaging to me. They saw me doing my best, shift in and shift out.
The teams we played against weren't composed of college students; rather, they were made up of grown men in teams sponsored by bars, for the most part. Those men were another matter. They tried to separate my head from my shoulders with great regularity. I got my nose broken, a busted chin, a torn ear, and a dislocated shoulder.
But I knew that no matter how hard I got hit, I had to get back up.
I knew that if I got hurt, I had to get back up.
No matter what happened, I had to get back up and keep playing.
And I knew that I could never, ever cry. And I never did.
I was in the men's locker room after every period, though I always left to give them privacy for the final 5 or so minutes. I never, ever heard any b.s. about women. Never. Never once.
And I like to think that maybe, in my own small way, I contributed to the young men on my team going out into the world with a fair view of women, an attitude that women could contribute equally; that women could compete; that women could be just as passionate and dedicated as men.
I do have to add that, 20 years later, I discovered that a member of my team had told everyone that he'd slept with me. It's a good thing I never found out while we played hockey together. I would have broken his nose for sure.
The young men on my team were okay. They never said or did anything disparaging to me. They saw me doing my best, shift in and shift out.
The teams we played against weren't composed of college students; rather, they were made up of grown men in teams sponsored by bars, for the most part. Those men were another matter. They tried to separate my head from my shoulders with great regularity. I got my nose broken, a busted chin, a torn ear, and a dislocated shoulder.
But I knew that no matter how hard I got hit, I had to get back up.
I knew that if I got hurt, I had to get back up.
No matter what happened, I had to get back up and keep playing.
And I knew that I could never, ever cry. And I never did.
I was in the men's locker room after every period, though I always left to give them privacy for the final 5 or so minutes. I never, ever heard any b.s. about women. Never. Never once.
And I like to think that maybe, in my own small way, I contributed to the young men on my team going out into the world with a fair view of women, an attitude that women could contribute equally; that women could compete; that women could be just as passionate and dedicated as men.
I do have to add that, 20 years later, I discovered that a member of my team had told everyone that he'd slept with me. It's a good thing I never found out while we played hockey together. I would have broken his nose for sure.
17
I love this post.
My husband lived for awhile in a co-ed dorm in college. He said it had a great impact on the young men who lived there, that the women were a good influence on them.
Our daughter was on a track team with a great mix of girls and boys and we really liked seeing the kids work and play together and learn from one another.
My husband lived for awhile in a co-ed dorm in college. He said it had a great impact on the young men who lived there, that the women were a good influence on them.
Our daughter was on a track team with a great mix of girls and boys and we really liked seeing the kids work and play together and learn from one another.
3
The real Donald Trump is a dishonorable, immoral, miserable liar. The Trump the white supremacist racists loudly support is their projected fantasy fulfilled. Trump, like Hitler, stands behind a microphone and spews hatred, insults and lies, then promises the return of supremacy: "make america great (white) again" this is enough to rile up the arrested developed average Trump supporter. It's a grotesque reality.
11
I've been in a lot of locker rooms over the years. There were some rude comments about women but that stopped around 11th grade.
Since that time the talk has mainly revolved around sports and weather and outdoor activities and the conversations don't usually last long. Most of us aren't interested in talking to other men when they're partially or totally naked.
Never, ever heard anything like Trump's comments, not even in high school.
My 14 year-old son thinks Trump is a fool, which he is. No role model there.
Since that time the talk has mainly revolved around sports and weather and outdoor activities and the conversations don't usually last long. Most of us aren't interested in talking to other men when they're partially or totally naked.
Never, ever heard anything like Trump's comments, not even in high school.
My 14 year-old son thinks Trump is a fool, which he is. No role model there.
14
My son is African American and so he's learning that Trump wants him lynched if he ever behaves towards a white woman, or is even accused of doing so, as Donald Trump will presume he can behave and deny because he's white, rich, privileged and a bully.
13
Donald J Trump: poster boy for frustrated juvenile delinquents of all ages and of the GOP circa 2016.
12
Our sons are being taught to always deny. Shift blame. Never hold yourself accountable for your actions. Only the selfish succeed. Greed is good. Hurting people makes you stronger. If the question is what are they "learning from Donald Trump." The real question is what can the rest of us teach them when we vote November 8th.
14
I get that this is about his impact on male youth, but let's not forget that the "boy" in question here was 59 when he was caught on that mic. And at 70, he still proudly proclaims his objectification of women.
Perhaps it is true that boys will be boys. But in most cases, they grow up.
Perhaps it is true that boys will be boys. But in most cases, they grow up.
9
As disgusting as Trumps comments were, I would ask where is the outrage, the 'national conversation' that should have begun quite some time ago with the advent of rap music that denigrates and objectifies women in the crudest and most vulgar way. Donald Trump? Sure the kids have heard about him, but they're listening to the rap 'artists' and learning from them much more than from Trump.
7
You're right. Liberals of all races gave rap an undeserved pass.
1
You seem to have forgotten the Senate hearings of the mid-'80s w/Tipper Gore etc., on the dreadful song lyrics current then. If I remember correctly Dee Snider from Twisted Sister was one musician called to testify...hardly a rap artist. I'm not defending lyrics about "hos" & bitches & cribs & drugs & alcohol, but lyrics referring to those things & concepts go way back in musical history, before rap was even thought of.
1
People have been raging against rap music for decades.
1
As the father of a 14-year-old boy, I despise what Donald Trump has already done-- win or lose-- to our culture. I see my son and his friends trying to figure out what it is to be a man and to have such a thoroughly repugnant human being filled with hate, cowardice and unfathomable narcissism be such a prominent and misguided example of manhood is deplorable. The damage will linger for years.
20
The REALLY good news is that the majority of Americans are rejecting behavior and talk like The Con Don's. BIG democracy-destroying money masters who bought the republican party underestimated the American public. Once we found out what their game is - try to destroy America with hate, anger, fear, war and bullying - WE are speaking out, acting out, voting their operatives out at every level.
Good Job, Good People of America! Let's demand that our lawmakers support the kind of America the majority of us want - a civil, safe, reasonable, socially and economically just society for all of us - and help them achieve it. We are Stronger Together!
Good Job, Good People of America! Let's demand that our lawmakers support the kind of America the majority of us want - a civil, safe, reasonable, socially and economically just society for all of us - and help them achieve it. We are Stronger Together!
13
Let's be honest here, folks: We live in a culture and nation that glorifies violent talk and behavior. As the father of a six year old boy, I'm concerned about the barrage of violent imaging and messaging inundating popular culture, TV, cartoons, toys, books, etc.
Moreover, the plethora of videos that have surfaced over the past few years of police officers routinely brutalizing and killing people sends an awful message that society (and our most revered institutions) use violence to address conflict. Instead of modeling deescalation and techniques that seek to defuse conflict, our children are seeing (mostly male officers) summarily turning to forceful and violent behavior as a first line of response. When violence is a knee jerk reaction whenever we feel threatened, it shouldn't be a surprise that our nation is in a perpetual state of war.
How can we teach boys to be sensitive and compassionate when the role models with the loudest and angriest mouths (Donald Trump) are filling our airwaves with bigotry and hatred? The only solution I can think of is for millions of fathers and men who influence boys (teachers, coaches, etc.) to recognize and embrace their duty and obligation to model appropriate behavior that emphasizes compassion and concern for our fellow human beings.
Whatever we do, we can't allow despicable demagogues like Donald Trump to have the last word!
Moreover, the plethora of videos that have surfaced over the past few years of police officers routinely brutalizing and killing people sends an awful message that society (and our most revered institutions) use violence to address conflict. Instead of modeling deescalation and techniques that seek to defuse conflict, our children are seeing (mostly male officers) summarily turning to forceful and violent behavior as a first line of response. When violence is a knee jerk reaction whenever we feel threatened, it shouldn't be a surprise that our nation is in a perpetual state of war.
How can we teach boys to be sensitive and compassionate when the role models with the loudest and angriest mouths (Donald Trump) are filling our airwaves with bigotry and hatred? The only solution I can think of is for millions of fathers and men who influence boys (teachers, coaches, etc.) to recognize and embrace their duty and obligation to model appropriate behavior that emphasizes compassion and concern for our fellow human beings.
Whatever we do, we can't allow despicable demagogues like Donald Trump to have the last word!
45
The Donald is a living textbook on the kind of behavior that boys, men, human beings and rabid dogs should all learn to avoid. If "locker room talk" is, in fact, a major problem when it comes to the emotional maturation of teens, we need to have mature phys ed teachers patrolling those locker rooms and keeping a lid on those conversations- not through punishment but through reasoned persuasion.
22
I have worked in schools for decades and have always said that I find middle school boys as amazingly tender and nurturing if given an opportunity. Just ask an 11 year old boy to entertain a 1 year old and you will frequently see magic happening. It has confirmed for me that we are all hardwired to nurture. The lucky boys and girls have support to let that nurturing grow as an important part of their adult personalities.
34
Since the chances that Trump will actually win now seem remote to me, my irritation with him has shifted toward my discomfort with Trump as a social norm innovator. What does that mean? Well, we have a social norm against saying that you'll just grope women asking and start kissing them. (Possibly, this norm is parasitic on the norm not to actually do these things). But Trump's plea is that he didn't actually do anything wrong: it was locker room talk, he says, and so consistent with the norms of that setting. Whether or not people think Trump actually transgressed a social norm largely depends on their support for or opposition to Trump. People are motivated reasoners, so Trump supporters are more likely to view this kind of talk as not being a serious violation of a social rule after it comes to light that Trump talked this way. So a worry is that Trump might have taught a bunch of people that it's OK, at least within their reference network (white conservative males, let's say), to talk this way when they otherwise wouldn't have.
On the other side, if you're a young man whose reference network is largely anti-Trump, you may be more likely to view what Trump did as a norm violation, and this may make more salient to you that there is a rule against talking about women this way. But then the worry is that this becomes another social division along political lines: conservative circles of men may start viewing this talk as more permissible than liberals do.
On the other side, if you're a young man whose reference network is largely anti-Trump, you may be more likely to view what Trump did as a norm violation, and this may make more salient to you that there is a rule against talking about women this way. But then the worry is that this becomes another social division along political lines: conservative circles of men may start viewing this talk as more permissible than liberals do.
2
Any professional athlete that tries to pretend they don't talk about women like Trump did is a liar.
I came of age during the Clinton scandals and was taught that we don't elect preachers and saints. Politicians are powerful men with stressful jobs and big sex appetites who are expected to have dirty sex lives. They're imperfect human beings who can't be judged on what they do in the bedroom, only whether they further the policies you want. The Democratic party taught me this when I matured during the Clinton era. I continue to live life by those lessons.
I'd like to vote for politicians who are stand up guys in their personal lives, but will vote on policy over that in scenarios when I can't have it both ways. Then I tell me son to pay attention to me rather than some sports figure or politician for a roll model, because the rich and powerful tend to have sloppy personal lives that aren't a good example for kids.
I'll also teach him that as he grows up and votes he has to learn that there aren't perfect choices. Sometimes there's nothing but bad choices, and exercising your Civic Duty isn't about taking the easy way out by throwing your vote away or voting against your interest just so you can say the President is on the face of it a polite and likable person.
I came of age during the Clinton scandals and was taught that we don't elect preachers and saints. Politicians are powerful men with stressful jobs and big sex appetites who are expected to have dirty sex lives. They're imperfect human beings who can't be judged on what they do in the bedroom, only whether they further the policies you want. The Democratic party taught me this when I matured during the Clinton era. I continue to live life by those lessons.
I'd like to vote for politicians who are stand up guys in their personal lives, but will vote on policy over that in scenarios when I can't have it both ways. Then I tell me son to pay attention to me rather than some sports figure or politician for a roll model, because the rich and powerful tend to have sloppy personal lives that aren't a good example for kids.
I'll also teach him that as he grows up and votes he has to learn that there aren't perfect choices. Sometimes there's nothing but bad choices, and exercising your Civic Duty isn't about taking the easy way out by throwing your vote away or voting against your interest just so you can say the President is on the face of it a polite and likable person.
3
"I'd like to vote for politicians who are stand up guys in their personal lives,"...So how would you rate Obama? Do you think he was born in Kenya, or do you think he is a stand-up guy?
3
sorry- wrong. I was a professional athlete and later a coach of both high school and college athletes. I have probably more "locker room experience" than Mr Trump"does. Talk like Mr. Trumps is NOT locker room talk, unless the types of locker rooms he hangs out in are of a far seedier nature than the ones I am familiar with. Yes the conversation got pretty ribald, mostly having to do with who was a better player. The sexual braggadocio was mostly about who was the most sexually active. Bragging about sexual assault? nope didnt see it or hear it.
This is not the way good people talk.
Additionally, if you think that Trump talking this way was an isolated incident,you my friend, might be the liar.
This is not the way good people talk.
Additionally, if you think that Trump talking this way was an isolated incident,you my friend, might be the liar.
3
Sometimes we elect powerful women as well as men. Stand up gals as well as stand up guys.
It is encouraging to see so many male athletes - at every level - saying they don't talk about women that way in locker rooms. It is sad that so many athletes abuse their spouses, girlfriends and partners. The very worst is supposed "christian" lawmakers who say they do not agree with The King Predator and Con Don's behavior and that they respect THEIR women but still support him. I think that is why many people are turning away from republicans - the sheer hypocrisy out there for everyone to see.
Hopefully when the election is over socially conscious media will run public service programs with men behaving like "real" men - with honor, integrity, responsibility - and urge girls, boys, men and women to stand up to these sexist, racist bully techniques. It is time for civility in America again.
Hopefully when the election is over socially conscious media will run public service programs with men behaving like "real" men - with honor, integrity, responsibility - and urge girls, boys, men and women to stand up to these sexist, racist bully techniques. It is time for civility in America again.
21
I agree absolutely that Donald Trump should in no respect be held up as a role model and that he provides nearly endless examples of behavior to condemn and avoid. However, since Ms. Miller's piece uses Trump as a point of departure for a serious discussion of our country’s and our world’s boy problem, I would like to respond to that discussion.
I find it incomplete. (This statement is intended not as a criticism but as an inevitable consequence of the word-limited format.) My boyhood prepared me more or less well for 70 years of schooling, infantry combat, marriage, parenthood, employment, and interpersonal relations. If we ignore or seek to suppress recognized gender differences – if we pathologize boyhood – we risk depriving our sons of skills and thinking that are still useful in the changing social and work worlds.
Just one example: men as well as women should expect to find themselves at some point in a genuinely hostile work environment, as often as not gender neutral. It is an unfortunate reality that nasty, narcissistic sociopaths (mini-Donalds?) all too often rise to positions of authority in our institutions. If we focus on stamping out bullying during childhood to the exclusion of fostering skills for coping with bullying, we risk leaving our boys and girls ill prepared to handle what they are likely to encounter in the adult world.
We need to build on boys’ strengths at the same time that we help them adjust to a changing world.
I find it incomplete. (This statement is intended not as a criticism but as an inevitable consequence of the word-limited format.) My boyhood prepared me more or less well for 70 years of schooling, infantry combat, marriage, parenthood, employment, and interpersonal relations. If we ignore or seek to suppress recognized gender differences – if we pathologize boyhood – we risk depriving our sons of skills and thinking that are still useful in the changing social and work worlds.
Just one example: men as well as women should expect to find themselves at some point in a genuinely hostile work environment, as often as not gender neutral. It is an unfortunate reality that nasty, narcissistic sociopaths (mini-Donalds?) all too often rise to positions of authority in our institutions. If we focus on stamping out bullying during childhood to the exclusion of fostering skills for coping with bullying, we risk leaving our boys and girls ill prepared to handle what they are likely to encounter in the adult world.
We need to build on boys’ strengths at the same time that we help them adjust to a changing world.
17
Thank goodness, a voice of sanity. Pathologizing boyhood is exactly what is going on. And the consequences- young men, unable to correlate their aggressive tendencies with society's expectations for them, lash out with untrained violence. The result is often deadly.
We don't know how to grow proper men from young boys anymore.
We don't know how to grow proper men from young boys anymore.
3
Bullying in childhood can have severely traumatic, often lifelong consequences. Those who think predatory behavior should be tolerated because "boys will be boys" are equally responsible for the consequences of bullying. Consequences such as: social acceptance of a fascist candidate for President. And, according to a recent study, 71% of perpetrators of mass school shootings were victims of bullying. Fortunately, most of us consider such outcomes intolerable, unnecessary and uncivilized.
19
My advice to my two teen-age daughters, at least until they are married, is to ask any potential date: Who did you vote for/support in the 2016 presidential election?
If he says Trump, they will know he isn't worthy. My girls are smart, strong, considerate and compassionate. They they are not masochists. They will know what to do.
If he says Trump, they will know he isn't worthy. My girls are smart, strong, considerate and compassionate. They they are not masochists. They will know what to do.
112
Your girls are lucky to have smart father who cares about them and who helps them to be smart, strong and considerate.
6
Yay , Dad!!
3
I'm a woman and had a similar question put to me by a date back in the mid-2000s. My date was relieved to hear I was not a Republican as we both had certain characteristics that might make people think we lean that way (e.g. personally but not socially conservative). I thought it was funny at the time but now that I think about it, it was pretty astute of him since politics reflect your values to a large degree.
3
Hopefully, our sons will learn how even a rich jerk can wind up blowing it and wind up in the jail he's so ready to throw everyone else into.
25
Girls are not as susceptible to social pressure as boys? Where exactly do these "resarchers" work? Nobody who lives in the real world outside some already-ideologized lab, watching swarms of Mean Girls (indeed, why is that film's portrait so familiar?), dressed to the nines in outfits copied ffrom billboards, demean the girls around them who fail to conform, believes this. Look out your window for gods sake, there's probably a group there now. Is this "all boys bad all girls saints" garbage ever goigng to stop?
17
Some sons surely, but not my sons or millions of others. They all know what kind of person Trump is by his actions and don't need it explained to them. And they treat the young women in their lives with the respect and deference due to all people. I hope our country can get past Trump like a bad bout of pneumonia in the coming weeks and begin to move forward again.
16
Trump in his plane, takes flight
to sleep in his own bed at night
will awake to tweet hate
whether it's early or late
Super-hero to the demented Right
to sleep in his own bed at night
will awake to tweet hate
whether it's early or late
Super-hero to the demented Right
14
What our daughters are leaning from Hillary Clinton.
To lie.
To threaten other women.
To enable a sexual predator if it helps your career.
Let's really talk about role models.
To lie.
To threaten other women.
To enable a sexual predator if it helps your career.
Let's really talk about role models.
6
The attempt at false equivalency is way out of line. You are talking about someone with flaws to be sure, but also someone who helped register voters in the South, offered the first serious proposal for universal healthcare, been a long term consistent supporter of children and early childhood education, been an advocate for women's rights. There are also plenty of examples of a positive role model if you care to look. The question is, why are you not looking?
7
Interesting how easy it is to forget the Bush/Cheney lies that got us into a war where young men and women died or came home without an arm, leg, etc. When I consider what HRC lied or didn't lie about, it's clear she is a strong woman, which many men and other women do not understand.
2
In spite of all his braggadocio Donald Trump is a loser. He is going to lose his one and only attempt to win a public election to a WOMAN! How humiliating can that be to a cave dweller like Donald Trump?? He has lost so many times in business, although those that invested in his businesses lost more. He has fooled some of the people some of the time, but thankfully he can't fool all of the people this time. Loser. Loser. Loser. In fact, it has been suggested by a very astute economist who prefers to remain anonymous that the entire Trump business must be a Ponzi scheme. If a mole in the IRS will ever leak Trump's income tax returns for the past decade we would see that Trump is not a billionaire, not even a millionaire, but rather a debtor who owes millions to investors who actually believed his fraudulent claims of success and didn't know that he had sold the same lies to multiple investors to pay other investors just as voters still believe the blatant lies he fabricates during his rallies and tweets. One day his whole scheme will collapse and he and perhaps some of his family members will be prosecuted for fraud.
28
In spite of all his braggadocio Donald Trump is a loser.....Truth is Trump knows he is really a loser, which is why he works so hard trying to convince himself that he something else. It is pathetic really.
4
Donald Trump doesn't have a clue what it means to be a man. Indeed, he barely qualifies as a human being.
72
From my six year old after hearing Trump on the radio during the primaries: "Mom, Donald Trump sounds like a bully. He's not a gentleman. I bet he doesn't even hold doors for people."
88
How about an annual Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) Awareness Day to reduce the chances of being fooled by Trump-like psychopaths in the future?
62
The harm that Trump has flung at our country is beyond measure. Even our children of every age cannot escape him. His maniacal rage has infected every aspect of our lives and as history shows us ... emotional, copy cat, insecure, non thinking masses follow blindly, including our sons and his sons. I dream of seeing Trump in a jumpsuit.
20
Why does this remind me of wrestling on TV? Men and boys screaming approval for phony testosterone laden kitsch.
8
Perhaps you're recalling Wrestlemania XXIII: https://youtu.be/MMKFIHRpe7I
3
Having Trump display the emotional maturity of a 14 year (on a good day) and a 3 year old on a bad day, is doing great damage to those trying to teach their sons how to be responsible adults. I guess he can be a good example of how some people fail to ever "grow up".
22
Listening to Trump’s sons gives you a sense of what the learning process looks like. Bad...
15
I suppose that I just don't understand the definition of masculine because, in my estimation, Donald Trump seems anything but - undisciplined, impulsive, emotionally immature, egotistical, and intellectually stunted. His rude, cruel, and abusive behaviors only further soar his presentation as a human being or a source of leadership. He is as he has always been, since childhood by his own admission. I find him thoroughly unattractive and the antithesis of manly or masculine. What a joke!
59
I did my doctoral dissertation at Vanderbilt on hyper masculinity in the late 80's. One finding stood out....over 30% believed that prickteasers should be raped. The subjects were senior HS males....private religious school in the lower Midwest. High hyper masculine scores had a significant negative correlation with self reported contraceptive behavior, as well as self esteem.
Never attempted to publish. Too exhausted from the process as doing a solo research under the scrutiny of faculty faced with delicate subject matter.
Never attempted to publish. Too exhausted from the process as doing a solo research under the scrutiny of faculty faced with delicate subject matter.
36
I would guess that the number of respondents who respond "yes" to "does x deserve to be raped?" questions has gone down since the 80's, perhaps faster than other attitudes that you're calling hyper-masculine. I'd be interested to see if that's true.
2
Yikes.
2
Let's hope so, Mr. Randall
dt is a vulgar man.
The only reason his wife stands up for him is that he is rich and she benefits from that and can live his lifestyle.
dt only is married to ms. dt because she is a size 0 - in mental ability except she can count the money and zero body size. If she were a normal size of 14 he would not have looked twice.
Thanks to an assumed pre-nup, she stays compliant and a 0 (zero)
The only reason his wife stands up for him is that he is rich and she benefits from that and can live his lifestyle.
dt only is married to ms. dt because she is a size 0 - in mental ability except she can count the money and zero body size. If she were a normal size of 14 he would not have looked twice.
Thanks to an assumed pre-nup, she stays compliant and a 0 (zero)
30
Thanks for the gender analysis in this piece. One of the terrifying problems surfaced by Trump's brand of misogyny AND racism is just how popular these messages appear to be to a majority of white men. Why does Trump continue to double down on racism and sexism? Trump seems to understand it's a major feature of his appeal to his base. It's the responsibility of those of us who are white men to call on other white men to reject bigotry. It's up to those of us who are parents (particularly dads) of sons to actively repudiate the promotion of toxic masculinity and the responsibility of white parents to challenge the virulence of racism. I wrote a blog post along these lines "Is Trump the President We Want for Our Sons?" (http://bit.ly/IsTrump4Sons) elaborating on these issues.
58
I respectfully disagree that it is a "majority" of white men, Mr. Diener. I think it's just the same old boisterous, shouting crowd that says "destroy everything". Most of it is bluster and I'm happy to hear the FBI and Secret Service are already contacting those who behave this way at The Con Don's rallies. His rabid words are not acceptable in America to most of us - men and women.
5
This has happened over and over in our history with advancements of rights and ending of discrimination or worse.
With women's rights, after decades of advancements, the more extreme groups started to play the "women's card", ie women should have equality in everything whether they earned it or not, and today's men should be vilified for being men who oppressed women for centuries
The backlash has started. It should not be blamed on people who fought for women's rights. It should be blamed on those who abused them.
We should condemn both. Trump should be condemned for abusing women and female extremists who do the same for abusing men.
With women's rights, after decades of advancements, the more extreme groups started to play the "women's card", ie women should have equality in everything whether they earned it or not, and today's men should be vilified for being men who oppressed women for centuries
The backlash has started. It should not be blamed on people who fought for women's rights. It should be blamed on those who abused them.
We should condemn both. Trump should be condemned for abusing women and female extremists who do the same for abusing men.
8
What signs of abuse do you actually think there are? I don't doubt that there may be a tiny minority of people who hold those extreme views (just as there are extremists on all matters), but that's certainly not representative of the women's rights movement and it's certainly not an accurate picture of our society, our workplaces or our schools today. Your comment is just another seeking to blame women for men's bad behavior, despite your token assignment of blame to a single man, Donald Trump.
(By the way, I don't at all believe that all men share Trump's reprehensible views. The men in my life certainly don't, and in my blissful ignorance, I was not aware until this campaign that this type of virulence against women was so widespread in this country.)
(By the way, I don't at all believe that all men share Trump's reprehensible views. The men in my life certainly don't, and in my blissful ignorance, I was not aware until this campaign that this type of virulence against women was so widespread in this country.)
19
Exactly who abused "equal rights" and how?
As a middle school teacher, I could write for days on this topic, but there is another slant I've taken now that Trump's campaign is tanking; to point out to children that failure is inevitable when anyone takes on this type of deplorable behavior. In this somewhat twisted way, the experience is a case study to make the point for virtuous behavior.
140
Excellent, Mr. Beall. Please keep up the good work. Good People must not let this kind of behavior and talk stand in America.
5
Thank you for your insight. I pray you are right.
As a father of three boys to now men, I can say that leading by example has had the most affect on their development. Trump is not the example role model for our children
76
I agree. My husband and I also raised 3 sons, now in their 50's. We raised them to be compassionate towards others. And no, they were not "sissy's", all 3 were athletes throughout their youth. Nothing wrong with their manhood. They are complete people. And are appalled.
7
Older men are very influential on younger men who, at the Junior and Senior high school level are trying to figure out how to talk to girls and what type of attitude to take. In the 1960s and 70s, when I grew up, the words and attitudes were about equivalent with Trump's disgraceful tone. And it causes big problems for girls and women in years to come. I am hoping that women will come to the polls and reject Trump for this reason alone and continue their ascent to equality that is free of cat calls, subjectivity and worse.
69
And many of these men are still harassing. I'm a 76 year old woman for heavens sake I had to tell a man my age yesterday if he touched me there would be fist e cuffs with me. He looked surprised and backed off.
6
I did not read this article beyond the headline, because I cannot stomach all this talk. However, I assure you that many have more sense than to follow Trump as a role model. My 12 year old son has been horrified of the man since we happen upon his election run announcement over a year ago. I remember seeing him on TV while eating breakfast with my children during our summer vacation. My son--along with my 13 year old daughter-- wondered, as I did, how someone intent on insulting every different sort of American around could get elected.
My kids continue to be shocked and appalled by the man. I am shocked and appalled the amount of support he has received from my fellow citizens.
My kids continue to be shocked and appalled by the man. I am shocked and appalled the amount of support he has received from my fellow citizens.
113
Why must the President in the U.S. be a role model for anything? This is certainly not the case in other countries where we understand that politicians are just average people. There are no superhero Presidents and there never will be.
The idea that some politician is going to teach my kids anything is actually kind of absurd. I teach my kids that politics is a career like any other and those involved in it are not necessarily the best and brightest.
Perhaps Americans should embrace the global tradition of laughing at politicians and treating them like the crass used car salespeople that they are. That way you are never disappointed.
The idea that some politician is going to teach my kids anything is actually kind of absurd. I teach my kids that politics is a career like any other and those involved in it are not necessarily the best and brightest.
Perhaps Americans should embrace the global tradition of laughing at politicians and treating them like the crass used car salespeople that they are. That way you are never disappointed.
11
Trump is no average person nor is he an average man. His behavior is very far from the average and he is offensive in many ways from his behavior around people who differ from him and are of different races, to people with disabilities, to his business practices, to his treatment of women in speech and act. He is just plain offensive. I wonder what he would do if some day he had to confront a person just like himself.
35
It's true that Americans have too much emotional investment in the presidency, and sometimes cast irrational votes as a result. However, teaching your kids that politicians are "not necessarily the best and the brightest" is a self-fulfilling prophecy. We need more smart people in public office, not fewer. The "global tradition of laughing at politicians" leads to a cynicism and disengagement that some of us find depressing and counterproductive. (I once lived in a country where most people in the educated class never voted at all.)
21
Agreed. But I will not pretend this election is a choice between two role models for my kids because this validates behaviour that is reprehensible. It would also be an abdication of my parenting responsibilities.
It's sad that a great country like the US has such destructive views being expressed by a man who should be showing maturity and respect for all people regardless of colour, sexuality, religion and gender. A person who thinks appologising is a sign of weakness, Sexual harrassment is ok and if women can't stand that behaviour in the workplace then they should quit, concussion is a sign of weakness regardless of what medical experts and anatomy suggests. PTSD is a sign of weakness, when mental health is a big issue requiring support and not shaming those affected as the weak ones, very SAD
42
Donald Trump is not a role model. Period.
104
As a woman who has lived and worked through the age of "women's liberation," it is appalling to me to see and hear the rhetoric that is being spewed in this campaign. I have seen the progress made over many years in the rights of women (and hopefully respect, too), but this is a precious resource that is now being attacked and abused. The undercurrent of hate that is being brought to the forefront is like an insidious infection that will rot from the inside. We must fight it at every turn or it will continue to grow and infect the most vulnerable people (our children).
It is not okay to demean, belittle or bully another person. Period.
Boys will be boys was an excuse for bad behavior when I was a child. That is not an excuse nor should it ever be for bad behavior. Having raised three boys, it was never an excuse in my family, nor was it accepted.
Boys and girls are different in many ways and should be celebrated, but the humanity and kindness in each of us must be emphasized and nurtured to bring out the moral core in each of us. There are thousands of examples in our society of people who are so generous of themselves with others and give even when they don't have much. These are the people who are role models and should be celebrated.
It is not okay to demean, belittle or bully another person. Period.
Boys will be boys was an excuse for bad behavior when I was a child. That is not an excuse nor should it ever be for bad behavior. Having raised three boys, it was never an excuse in my family, nor was it accepted.
Boys and girls are different in many ways and should be celebrated, but the humanity and kindness in each of us must be emphasized and nurtured to bring out the moral core in each of us. There are thousands of examples in our society of people who are so generous of themselves with others and give even when they don't have much. These are the people who are role models and should be celebrated.
94
Trump is not a boy. He is supposed to be an adult man.
1
Yesterday, an SUV rolled down an embankment and passers-by stopped, got out of their cars, and worked together to help the driver escape from his vehicle before it exploded. It took some doing, and the driver, who was disoriented from the accident, fought his rescuers and didn't make it any easier. Still, they persisted and got the guy to safety. These were everyday heroes and good people. I cannot help but think that if Donald Trump had driven by in his limo, he would not have stopped or even thought about it.
5
Where's the rest of the essay? The explanation of how we deal with boys who follow Trump's lead, especially if they have Trumpist parents. Nearly half the country falls for his brand of snake oil. How do we refrain from ridiculing the adults, yet convey to the children that Trump's ugly thinking and behavior are fear-based & senselessly destructive?
159
Is speaking truth to stupidity and ignorance a form of ridicule? People exhibiting Trump-like behavior should feel embarrassed; they should know it is not right and it is not acceptable.
6
I don't think we should refrain from ridiculing the adults. If you want a racist, sexist, uninformed, dishonest, lunatic con man/game show host to have control of the world's largest military and most sophisticated nuclear arsenal then you deserve ridicule. I've told my seven year old the people supporting Trump are ignorant fools because it's the truth. He tells me he's not going to trick-or-treat at houses with Trump signs in the yard and I'm quite fine with that. They'll probably be giving out sour apple-flavored dum dums anyhow.
6
Being aggressive and steamrolling weaker people has always been the American way to success-- from the oil barons and US Steel to Apple (and the sacred Mr. Jobs) to Facebook.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's going to end, ever.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's going to end, ever.
2
Ms. Trump #3 correctly identified the issue when she called the perverted dialogue of her husband and Billy Bush, "boy talk".
Potty mouth and potty jokes are a phase for some boys. Testing boundaries is part of finding out what societal norms are. The adults in their lives, parents, teachers, coaches and religious, need to set the kids straight when they hear such talk.
Apparently Trump missed that lesson. And once again he missed the opportunity to show real leadership. He could have turned this embarrassment into a teachable moment. Instead he apologized to anyone who might be offended. Unfortunately for Ms. Trump #3 and the Republican Party, there is not much evidence that Mr. Trump has made it through the boy phase.
But this moment can still be used as a teachable moment. The adults, including the talking heads on tv, can explain to their children, both boys and girls, why such talk is unacceptable. And they can show the consequences of such talk by voting for anyone but the boy who never grew up, Trump.
Potty mouth and potty jokes are a phase for some boys. Testing boundaries is part of finding out what societal norms are. The adults in their lives, parents, teachers, coaches and religious, need to set the kids straight when they hear such talk.
Apparently Trump missed that lesson. And once again he missed the opportunity to show real leadership. He could have turned this embarrassment into a teachable moment. Instead he apologized to anyone who might be offended. Unfortunately for Ms. Trump #3 and the Republican Party, there is not much evidence that Mr. Trump has made it through the boy phase.
But this moment can still be used as a teachable moment. The adults, including the talking heads on tv, can explain to their children, both boys and girls, why such talk is unacceptable. And they can show the consequences of such talk by voting for anyone but the boy who never grew up, Trump.
100
What our sons and daughters are learning from Donald Trump is that being a racist, a misogynist, a liar, a hate monger, a boastful narcissist, a wannabe dictator, an alternate-reality propagandist... is actually supported by a large swath of the population and condoned by cynical power-seeking individuals. I'm not American but the stain is slowly outgrowing America with the continuous exposure.
276
Keep watching, YvesC. I think you will be in for a surprise in the next 8 years.
2
I have been waiting for this article. As a retired early-childhood educator and supervisor, I remember some parents using the "boys will be boys" line to excuse bullying and violence. I shudder to think of the job that will lay before our teachers if they ever have to reconcile the behavior and attitudes of Donald Trump as president with the expectations for kindness, decency, tolerance and respect which are Classroom Rules throughout this country. I also worry about girls who might suffer with boys emboldened by Trump's idea that "Locker Room Talk" and the behaviors deriving from it are no big deal.
205
Mr. Trump is doing stuff that, by perpetrating it in the broader world, is creating trouble for himself and everybody else. I hope that boys will see this, helped by fathers and teachers who want the best for boys' futures. As an exclamation point, may Trump and his execrable toadies suffer one of the worst electoral drubbings in presidential history come November 8th.
Even "bad boys" hold no candle to Donald Trump for reprehensibility. Typically, such men-children are not out-of-control sociopaths. Claire Miller makes a point, however, that has long troubled me. There exists no more prominent national role model than the US President and Commander-in-Chief. If Trump is elected, he will become the American alpha male (to quote the ever-mindlessly sneering Ann Coulter), a prideful figure for emulation.
Meanwhile, American boys to the age of 90 will be increasingly left spinning their hot-rod wheels while girls and women learn to function effectively in an interpersonally nuanced world. We see this around us every day. As a culture, we are no better holding boys back than we were holding girls back
www.endthemadnessnow.org
Even "bad boys" hold no candle to Donald Trump for reprehensibility. Typically, such men-children are not out-of-control sociopaths. Claire Miller makes a point, however, that has long troubled me. There exists no more prominent national role model than the US President and Commander-in-Chief. If Trump is elected, he will become the American alpha male (to quote the ever-mindlessly sneering Ann Coulter), a prideful figure for emulation.
Meanwhile, American boys to the age of 90 will be increasingly left spinning their hot-rod wheels while girls and women learn to function effectively in an interpersonally nuanced world. We see this around us every day. As a culture, we are no better holding boys back than we were holding girls back
www.endthemadnessnow.org
44
I'm not sure that any President of the United States would ever be more of a role model for American males than the "stars" from the sports world. Because so many (most?) American boys play sports of one kind or more, they are inclined to look at the stars from the sports they play as role models. They can identify with them because of the shared sport. Happily, amid the disasters among those stars, there are outstanding male role models who are looked up to by boys first of all because they are good at their sport, and then secondly because they do good things in/for their communities. The President of the United States is not someone you can identify with if you are, say, a 13-year old boy who plays baseball. Someone like Clayton Kershaw is.
5
As the first African-American president, Barack Obama is surely a role model for African American children, and, of course, for all children. As Hillary will be for women, and, of course, for all people.
1
As a Child Psychologist and Forensic Evaluator I totally concur with this article. In ground breaking research years ago about the true nature of childhood play and the gender differences in how parents hold and treat their boys from birth differently than girls we learned that there are virtually no differences hard wired in boys and girls. Each gender has different lived lives at home on the playground and school.
The truth is that boys and girls can be anything. We humans have a singular capacity called neoteny. It is the retention of flexibility of the ability of all of our potential play creativity everything in both genders each with the same spectrum of being everything.
By thinking otherwise we end up with prescriptive stereotypes which creates these differences.
Trump is horridly destructive. A true demagogue and a fascist rapist.
The truth is that boys and girls can be anything. We humans have a singular capacity called neoteny. It is the retention of flexibility of the ability of all of our potential play creativity everything in both genders each with the same spectrum of being everything.
By thinking otherwise we end up with prescriptive stereotypes which creates these differences.
Trump is horridly destructive. A true demagogue and a fascist rapist.
176
I'm not sure how long you have been practicing, has there been a study on Bill Clinton's effects on youth with the abuse of power involving Monica Lewinsky ?
Are there young girls having incidents with cigars and other proven issues due to influence and actions of men emulating things our commander and chief carried out ?
Maybe you could conduct a case study and use a scientific method over political choice and your own values, collect data, survey. If this has been done with the Clinton/Lewinsky matter please share the study so we can protect and screen for these abuses when our children are presented with the opportunity to intern and we can protect them in a screening process where cigars or something that represents objects of same may be incorporated.
Are there young girls having incidents with cigars and other proven issues due to influence and actions of men emulating things our commander and chief carried out ?
Maybe you could conduct a case study and use a scientific method over political choice and your own values, collect data, survey. If this has been done with the Clinton/Lewinsky matter please share the study so we can protect and screen for these abuses when our children are presented with the opportunity to intern and we can protect them in a screening process where cigars or something that represents objects of same may be incorporated.
2
Treating boys and girls as though they are identical, interchangeable units that only vary by their reproductive organs is how we got here in the first place.
By disqualifying every notion of masculinity as a child-rearing error, you set up the vast majority of young boys for a hard fall. We're not the same as women. And we shouldn't be ashamed of it. But that's what the world has set up for young men these days- that any sense of aggression, competition, dominance, or any display of sexual interest should be shamed. Admonished by society, the end result is the pent up frustration at being a 'bad' person for having sexual and aggressive tendencies, they lash out. Often with deadly consequences. Or worse, with Donald Trump.
We need to move beyond this outdated message, that masculinity is just a prescriptive stereotype, not an inherent quality for the vast majority (not all) men. We need to nurture and train aggressiveness and not chastise it. Men can and should be allowed to be men.
By disqualifying every notion of masculinity as a child-rearing error, you set up the vast majority of young boys for a hard fall. We're not the same as women. And we shouldn't be ashamed of it. But that's what the world has set up for young men these days- that any sense of aggression, competition, dominance, or any display of sexual interest should be shamed. Admonished by society, the end result is the pent up frustration at being a 'bad' person for having sexual and aggressive tendencies, they lash out. Often with deadly consequences. Or worse, with Donald Trump.
We need to move beyond this outdated message, that masculinity is just a prescriptive stereotype, not an inherent quality for the vast majority (not all) men. We need to nurture and train aggressiveness and not chastise it. Men can and should be allowed to be men.
1
John - The Clinton/Lewinsky affair was consensual. Hopefully young women learned that having sex with a married man, especially one you work with is a stupid thing to do.
2
The men I know for Trump tend to fall into a few groups. They share an enjoyment in expressing the antagonism and displeasure their advocacy of Trump is imagined by them to cause particularly on the part of the women whom they believe back Hillary Clinton for President. "Libs" are who they want to "stick it to." "Hillary is liar," is their mantra. They never quite outgrew the eight year old, 'hate girls' stage. Rather they stumbled into sports, high school and permanent adolescence. Sad. They fall across blue collar and tech class lines. It's not income or their personal jobs. It's arrested emotional development and fear of emotion. Separating the boys from the men in this group seems moot. They are all boys.
308
I have an eight year old son. He doesn't hate girls.
1
Good essay.
In the last sentence, Miller quotes a psychologist working in the field: boys find Trump's behavior confusing, because they would get into trouble if they misbehaved like that. I would add that if Trump is elected President, millions of such boys will move from being confused to being inspired to imitate.
In the last sentence, Miller quotes a psychologist working in the field: boys find Trump's behavior confusing, because they would get into trouble if they misbehaved like that. I would add that if Trump is elected President, millions of such boys will move from being confused to being inspired to imitate.
242
Looking beyond Trump's gender to a different problem, rich people, and those who are assumed to be rich through posturing, are treated much differently than other genuinely non-rich people. As a group, they are treated with deference and they get away with saying things and behaviors that would have pilloried or imprisoned the rest of us. We see this time and time again. So the violations of the social norms, whether one is male or female, go beyond simply being an Alpha Male.
9
There seems to be evidence that boys and men are already being inspired to imitate!
The problem extends beyond Donald Trump himself to fathers who take their sons to his rallies and Trump fans who wear obscene T-shirts (a popular one seems to have the "c" word for a woman's genitals and refers to Hillary) and laugh at his misogyny (and racism etc.). Trump has invited the most vile of attitudes and language into the public square and made it acceptable to a whole swath of the population.
Since many men find his words and behavior repugnant, we can assume that many parents and schools have long been communicating a different message to boys. What we do about the rest is an ongoing dilemma.
Since many men find his words and behavior repugnant, we can assume that many parents and schools have long been communicating a different message to boys. What we do about the rest is an ongoing dilemma.
253
This seems to be an "elite boy's school" problem, Ms. Hislop. Perhaps we should ban them? Or tax them out of existence? Or make sure they get gender-integrated? The good old boys will be boys way must go the way of the dinosaurs. It's past time.
1
I think it is important to separate just the words from how the words were used to indicate assault. Although many find the words unacceptable, there is a big difference between calling a woman the c-word and using it to describe a body part. One is very wrong, the other is crude.
2
This isn't an "elite" problem; it's far too widespread.
Carl Jung wrote about the positive and negative aspects of the anima (inner woman in men) and animus (inner man in women).
Here are some interesting references regarding poetic attributes of a positive anima.
- Book - "Iron John: A Book About Men " by Robert Bly
Chapt.5 - "The Meeting With The God-Woman in the Garden" - The story teller introduces solar light - "we are ... somewhere in the area of sacred intellect, only this time associated with a woman ... who isn't afraid of light." - in the inner walled garden "where springs not fail" - "a place to develop introversion"
"The Wild Man here is like Persephone. It is in the (inner) garden that a man finds the wealth of the psyche ... cultivation as opposed to rawness ... the lover's nature ... one appreciates ... harmonies ... grace."
(pg. 145) "When a woman (poet) troubadour ... praises a man, she looks through him to a luminous figure standing behind him, just as the men poets do when they praise a woman."
Afterword - "When ... the life of men stops growing .. after the wild part of them goes into a cage, ... (they) don't even get to the spring they're asked to guard."
- metahistory.org - "Faith Incarnate - The Western Passion" - "to love what is best and most beautiful in human nature ... the intrinsic value of a person ... love ... that transcends the world"