I am afraid that violence against women will increase when Hillary is elected, just as violence against blacks increased after Obama was elected. But I am going to vote for her anyway and hope for the best.
3
I'm afraid that violence against women will increase if Trump were to be elected! Those men AND women who support him don't like really women, and if they are able to elect a misogynist into the White House, it would be open season on women, blacks, immigrants and the poor! The hate which has been festering and escaping in "small" amounts will fully erupt and Trump, supporters will feel that they have carte blanche to do their evil leader's work.
13
I thought this essay over the top as it paints with a very broad brush all men. Among my own group of church members and neighbors I've never seen this behavior or heard of any antagonism toward women. I realize I don't see their home lives but it is difficult to hide such feelings and behavior outside the home too.
The article tries to paint this as a picture of Conservatives. Abuse is not limited to any one political or social group. In England police have been ignoring men beating their wives as an ethnic tic common in their homeland and now transferred there.
How about articles that show men AND women who are supportive of the women in their lives and society.
The article tries to paint this as a picture of Conservatives. Abuse is not limited to any one political or social group. In England police have been ignoring men beating their wives as an ethnic tic common in their homeland and now transferred there.
How about articles that show men AND women who are supportive of the women in their lives and society.
1
I am quite sure NYT would never publish such a patently ridiculous headline as, "Racism Is Back. Did It Ever Go Away?"
However the equally ridiculous headline "Misogyny Is Back. Did It Ever Go Away?" makes the cut. As if misogyny were some kind of passing fad.
Isn't the perpetual issue of misogyny worth a bit more serious thought from the headline writer? I guess not. Where is the editor in this?
However the equally ridiculous headline "Misogyny Is Back. Did It Ever Go Away?" makes the cut. As if misogyny were some kind of passing fad.
Isn't the perpetual issue of misogyny worth a bit more serious thought from the headline writer? I guess not. Where is the editor in this?
4
Now that women are in the military there is no reason only men should gang up. A group of women having their periods should go down the street together and slash at anybody solid.
what on earth is this nonsense?
10
Misogyny is age old; the basis of plots of movies, plays and narratives older than the societies from which they originated.
Today, a commonly asked litmus question of women, in the process of getting to know a new man, is: "Tell me about your mother."
Today, a commonly asked litmus question of women, in the process of getting to know a new man, is: "Tell me about your mother."
6
I guess you can say that being the Republican candidate for president, Trump has brought misogyny into the spotlight. Well then, let's hear for The Donald, wot?
How much it will further the progress of men coming to face some honest truths about how we view women in our lives we have yet to measure. We are all aware that none of us likes criticism even when we invite it. We like it sugar-coated. We also do not like change. We say every election we want change. We did with Barack Obama. We also wanted Hope. No one person can do that, yet we expect it. We set up failure.
So where does that leave us with Trump's solid unwavering base? They will be angry to be sure. Some will refuse to acknowledge that woman, Hillary, as their legitimate leader. What to do? Hopefully, with the passage of time, which does heal all wounds, a fraction of those most hateful of Hillary will come around.
Of course if you are an arch-conservative nothing Hillary does will be to your liking. But I am not talking about issues. George W. Bush was not my cup of tea. I disagreed with him on most everything. But there was no time during his presidency I wished him ill will, or hate him, even over Iraq. I believed in his heart he was trying to do what was right, but failed. If only Trump supporters could allow that sort of leeway with Hillary, perhaps it could be a start. When George W. was selected president in '00, I was furious. On 9/11/01 he was my president.
DD
Manhattan
How much it will further the progress of men coming to face some honest truths about how we view women in our lives we have yet to measure. We are all aware that none of us likes criticism even when we invite it. We like it sugar-coated. We also do not like change. We say every election we want change. We did with Barack Obama. We also wanted Hope. No one person can do that, yet we expect it. We set up failure.
So where does that leave us with Trump's solid unwavering base? They will be angry to be sure. Some will refuse to acknowledge that woman, Hillary, as their legitimate leader. What to do? Hopefully, with the passage of time, which does heal all wounds, a fraction of those most hateful of Hillary will come around.
Of course if you are an arch-conservative nothing Hillary does will be to your liking. But I am not talking about issues. George W. Bush was not my cup of tea. I disagreed with him on most everything. But there was no time during his presidency I wished him ill will, or hate him, even over Iraq. I believed in his heart he was trying to do what was right, but failed. If only Trump supporters could allow that sort of leeway with Hillary, perhaps it could be a start. When George W. was selected president in '00, I was furious. On 9/11/01 he was my president.
DD
Manhattan
4
Oh, so we will need another 9/11 to love Hillary?
Dear bern:
Your deliberate misrepresentation and feeble attempt to make light of the horror that hit US on 9/11/01, to use it as some sarcastic retort, makes you chuckle. Not funny, old sport. In fact terribly disturbing. Shame.
DD
Manhattan
Your deliberate misrepresentation and feeble attempt to make light of the horror that hit US on 9/11/01, to use it as some sarcastic retort, makes you chuckle. Not funny, old sport. In fact terribly disturbing. Shame.
DD
Manhattan
3
On the face of things it is exactly what it all is: reprehensible. Deeper though, it is possible this very serious subject is being USED to mask difficult policy decisions and unpopular directions for our country? We wouldn't be talking of about the treatment of women so intently if Hillary was a man. It is a topic that should have been newsworthy regardless of who was running for President. Trump's behavior, by the way, is moot. He is not a good candidate for President. Period. Next?
2
"Misogyny Is Back. Did It Ever Go Away?"
Of course not especially in the lyrics of rap music, the authors of which having been feted at the White House by President and Mrs. Obama. Where was the outrage to those lyrics, played around the country to the delight of young boys and girls, when those "artists" were treated like royalty by the Obama's?
Only when a Republican candidate for president mouths a very small portion of those words does the White House react with disgust. Politics?
Of course not especially in the lyrics of rap music, the authors of which having been feted at the White House by President and Mrs. Obama. Where was the outrage to those lyrics, played around the country to the delight of young boys and girls, when those "artists" were treated like royalty by the Obama's?
Only when a Republican candidate for president mouths a very small portion of those words does the White House react with disgust. Politics?
3
The horrible things men do to women, and it predominantly in that order, not in reverse, have a new name for these assaults: They are now referred to as Trump crimes.
If Trump has contributed anything of significance to this disastrous campaign, in addition to basically alienating a wide swath of minorities which Trump never seems to have figured out that a group of minorities make up a vast majority, this sexist beast has taken us back to the days of Tarzan: Me Donald, you Hillary.
Even more astounding, this odious human has the nerve to brag, "I have the greatest respect for women". Really? What women are he referring to? Not even beauty pageant queens escape his wrath. Nor do women who repel his advances. Nor to ex-spouses, even his daughter.
Judge this man's actions by his deeds not his words. His words mean nothing. If what we already know is a lie, then we must assume when Trump tells us he promises to make America great, again, why on earth should we believe this?
Trump is not a successful businessman. He is a terrible one, unless you consider bankruptcies to protect his assets and not pay any taxes success. Somehow Hillary was correct when she stated in the last debate that she could say nice about him is that he had a wonderful family. I think Trump had nothing to do with that either. He provided them with a comfortable existence, but little else. He lucked out. His kids seem to have turned out much nicer than he has. Go figure.
DD
Manhattan
If Trump has contributed anything of significance to this disastrous campaign, in addition to basically alienating a wide swath of minorities which Trump never seems to have figured out that a group of minorities make up a vast majority, this sexist beast has taken us back to the days of Tarzan: Me Donald, you Hillary.
Even more astounding, this odious human has the nerve to brag, "I have the greatest respect for women". Really? What women are he referring to? Not even beauty pageant queens escape his wrath. Nor do women who repel his advances. Nor to ex-spouses, even his daughter.
Judge this man's actions by his deeds not his words. His words mean nothing. If what we already know is a lie, then we must assume when Trump tells us he promises to make America great, again, why on earth should we believe this?
Trump is not a successful businessman. He is a terrible one, unless you consider bankruptcies to protect his assets and not pay any taxes success. Somehow Hillary was correct when she stated in the last debate that she could say nice about him is that he had a wonderful family. I think Trump had nothing to do with that either. He provided them with a comfortable existence, but little else. He lucked out. His kids seem to have turned out much nicer than he has. Go figure.
DD
Manhattan
1
Female Predator perspective; "He's Old, Crude, Crass, Spoiled, a Narcissist, Psychopath and Scam Artist; but he's White and Wealthy and has a thing for Women with Big Boobs. I can grab his penis. You can do that if you are attractive with big boobs."
1
Just why does the Times publish this propaganda? Oh, to sway an election. I hope that it doesn't work!
1
Why did this article disappear so quickly from the front page of the NYT on line edition. It's in the NYT Regional Section. REALLY?!!!! Had no idea it was just a local problem! It belongs in the op-ed section on the FRONT Page, above the fold!
6
Also, nobody was bothering to approve comments for the longest time.
2
Woman continue to be judged differently. One year, a male colleague got drunk at an end-of-school-year luncheon. He was yelling at our principal: "Why are you leaving us? The King is dead!" And went looking for a kindergarten teacher to excoriate for how many days she was absent. The police were called. He's still the department chair. There's no question in my mind that if I did that—as a female—I'd be fired.
2
I see this pattern of insanity over and over:
Take away the "club" being used to beat on someone who is "different", and you are persecuting the one holding the club?!?
Regardless of whether the "club" holder is a man, a religious zealot or a bigot, until we address this destructive and irrational attitude, nothing will change.
Take away the "club" being used to beat on someone who is "different", and you are persecuting the one holding the club?!?
Regardless of whether the "club" holder is a man, a religious zealot or a bigot, until we address this destructive and irrational attitude, nothing will change.
1
The lesson Donald Trump never learned: The difference between rape and seduction is patience.
Two weeks ago Gina Bellafante in her Big City column “Your Public Service Ad? Not Here” gave unqualified support to a campaign led by a group of faux, pampered, entitled, uber, feminists to inform women that they do not have to give up their seats on an airline if asked to by a Hasid who does not wish to sit next to a woman not his relative. In response to that article-the Times published in today’s paper several comments from readers bemoaning the horror, injustice and gender discrimination that women suffer because of the above.
Ms. Bellafante never mentioned the misogynist threat from men that come at strangers on an airline like an octopus. It seems that to her and her faux feminist friends, a Hassid if far more menacing than a serial sexual predator.
Ms. Bellafante never mentioned the misogynist threat from men that come at strangers on an airline like an octopus. It seems that to her and her faux feminist friends, a Hassid if far more menacing than a serial sexual predator.
Menachem, are you a Hassid who refuses to be seated next to a woman and will demand that she leave her seat?
Ooh, I can't wait till I happen to be assigned a seat next to you. Bring it on.
Ooh, I can't wait till I happen to be assigned a seat next to you. Bring it on.
1
Love this: "You take to heart Margaret Atwood’s famous saying that men are worried that women will laugh at them while women are worried that men will kill them."
Men and their dominating tendencies. No, I'm not surprised about the misogyny, I am used to it. I don't understand it, but I get it.
I might get it more than others because, after thirty years of being in business and navigating the business world created by men, I took a step back, went to college to answer some questions, all in the vein of "what the funk is going on around here".
The revelations I garnered by studying human development was so enlightening.
The most important thing I learned was how to be value driven in a power driven culture. That is also what I see Clinton doing.
Misogyny is alive and well.
I think it is a little funny that someone would think it isn't.
Men and their dominating tendencies. No, I'm not surprised about the misogyny, I am used to it. I don't understand it, but I get it.
I might get it more than others because, after thirty years of being in business and navigating the business world created by men, I took a step back, went to college to answer some questions, all in the vein of "what the funk is going on around here".
The revelations I garnered by studying human development was so enlightening.
The most important thing I learned was how to be value driven in a power driven culture. That is also what I see Clinton doing.
Misogyny is alive and well.
I think it is a little funny that someone would think it isn't.
2
Why can't she end her article "it is reminding women that there is still plenty to unite against."? Talk about fear-mongering, now the NY Times is in the same business as Trump. Really?
1
Where does this woman live? Her thoughts and writings are totally alien to most women...we do not play the "victim" card or the "girl" card........we stand on our own two feet...........................
1
It's real!!! AND I've stood on my "own two feet "my entire life. I refused to be a "victim" in spite of verbal threats & physical assaults! Open your eyes to reality!
4
I would re-write the last sentence of this superb article. If the Trump campaign has "accomplished anything," it hasn't been reminding women that there is "still plenty to be frightened of." Women have not needed reminding. This awareness has been a part of our lives all along. What the Trump campaign has accomplished is encouraging men who are receptive to the message to see this behavior as normal and to act on it. It's been a counter-education that has undone much progress. It has also verified, for those men receptive to this message, that women really are not only just body parts, but body parts that are there for the taking. It has also revealed just how many man are receptive to the message. What we don't know, is how many man participating in hate groups are doing so because the Trump example has made them feel that if they don't, they are somehow not real men.
12
Time to rewrite Title 9 - a new ammendment against harassment and rape for women in and of itself, not just an additive as in Title 9.
What he has reminded us, however inadvertently on his part, is that we are not alone. I have been moved to see numerous women stepping out to acknowledge their encounters with sexual assault and harassment, often putting words together for the first time out loud. This is an antidote to fear, as I can testify personally. At last a reality we have long lived with is revealed. The public, or a sizable portion thereof, finally sees the ugliness we have seen.
1
As a woman I am not afraid of Donald Trump. I am very afraid of Muslims boldly proclaiming what I will and will not wear. When I see the European news I shudder to think this will happen here in greater fashion. So give me Donald Trump, whom I would never meet, and get those Muslims out of the country that I meet on a daily basis.
3
Posted this before. Never give up.
This country was founded on genocide and built on slavery. There is a very long history of hatred of the "other" in this country, with each successive wave of immigrants viewing those who follow with distrust and hatred based on fear of differences. And yet it is those very differences that contribute to this great melting pot, forging out of the many, ONE - "E pluribus unum."
This election will reveal who we are as a people. Does the hatred and fear continue to fester causing us to seek a leader who will feed our darkest impulses? Or will we respond to the "better angels of our nature?"
We will get exactly the President we deserve; exactly the President we need. It may not be pleasant but it will be deserved. And perhaps out of it will come some greater good, some wisdom that cannot be learned except through the awful suffering that is the product of all the times I (we) have chosen to hate the stranger in my (our) midst.
I am responsible. My failure to understand, feel and act compassionately towards those who hold different opinions and who suffer, has added to the hatred that is literally tearing this country apart.
This country was founded on genocide and built on slavery. There is a very long history of hatred of the "other" in this country, with each successive wave of immigrants viewing those who follow with distrust and hatred based on fear of differences. And yet it is those very differences that contribute to this great melting pot, forging out of the many, ONE - "E pluribus unum."
This election will reveal who we are as a people. Does the hatred and fear continue to fester causing us to seek a leader who will feed our darkest impulses? Or will we respond to the "better angels of our nature?"
We will get exactly the President we deserve; exactly the President we need. It may not be pleasant but it will be deserved. And perhaps out of it will come some greater good, some wisdom that cannot be learned except through the awful suffering that is the product of all the times I (we) have chosen to hate the stranger in my (our) midst.
I am responsible. My failure to understand, feel and act compassionately towards those who hold different opinions and who suffer, has added to the hatred that is literally tearing this country apart.
3
Chris, I am an American woman married to an American man who was born in Iran. He probably knows our government and laws far better than you do. He does not ever dictate what I wear and rarely comments unless to tell me I look nice.
I have been harassed by more American men than I can count or care to recall. Your islamaphobia is ugly to behold. You deserve Donald. I don't and neither does my American husband.
Tha you meet on a daily basis...what a joke. I bet you don't know any.
I have been harassed by more American men than I can count or care to recall. Your islamaphobia is ugly to behold. You deserve Donald. I don't and neither does my American husband.
Tha you meet on a daily basis...what a joke. I bet you don't know any.
7
So you're saying that in Louisville, Muslims have control over what you yourself are allowed to wear?
Pardon me if I doubt that.
Pardon me if I doubt that.
3
Misogyny can take various forms. I married a man who, I thought, was different than my father, who would fly into rages and hit me. My husband was soft-spoken, and not physically violent. However, he was "Passive-aggressive," undermining me in front of my two sons. It took me many years to realize what was happening. Grateful to Trump for one thing: bringing misogyny into the open!!
9
Misogyny is ubiquitous. I experienced it in grad school and in the workforce. It knows no boundaries, including in the LGBTQ community, which is currently valorized in the NYT, and of which I am a member. Just go to a drag show.
10
When you've lived a life of privilege, equality feels like oppression.
As America has become more diverse and more are voting, white males feel they are losing their grip on their place in America. From birth they've been told, wrongly so, it's their god given right. So, as equality creates opportunity for others, those who felt it is their god given right to be first now feel oppressed.
As America has become more diverse and more are voting, white males feel they are losing their grip on their place in America. From birth they've been told, wrongly so, it's their god given right. So, as equality creates opportunity for others, those who felt it is their god given right to be first now feel oppressed.
13
You put your finger on it, Geoffrey.
I heard a white male Trump supporter being interviewed on the BBC a couple of days ago. He was sincerely disturbed by his feeling that as a white male, his voice doesn't count nowadays.
So this is a new, disturbing feeling? Welcome to the world of all the non-white and/or non-male people who have always had to expect being ignored, dismissed and talked over.
I heard a white male Trump supporter being interviewed on the BBC a couple of days ago. He was sincerely disturbed by his feeling that as a white male, his voice doesn't count nowadays.
So this is a new, disturbing feeling? Welcome to the world of all the non-white and/or non-male people who have always had to expect being ignored, dismissed and talked over.
4
I just need to say to all these women that NOTHING anyone else does can humiliate you. You are the only one who can cause yourself humiliation, by your own behavior. Your dignity is yours and yours alone. No one can take it from you; you can only lose it through your own actions.
That someone behaves badly toward you demeans them, not you. Period.
That someone behaves badly toward you demeans them, not you. Period.
2
Yeah, until the guy, who is 10" taller and 90 pounds heavier, slugs you. Or stalks you. Or burns you. Sure, you can be responsible for your own actions but you cannot be responsible for some guy who feels his manhood is being threatened and decides to take it out on the first female or smaller person he sees. Get real. There are men out there whose mothers told them they were little princes and when the world tells them that they are not always so princely, they act out like children, sometimes brutally.
4
Are you speaking from the point of view of a male, who, because he has roughly equal strength to a lone sexual assailant, ONLY has to worry about his dignity being affected?
I'm an optimist who believes this insane repulsive election is cathartic, with embedded sexism and racism crawling out from under their rocks into the light of day, the well-qualified and well-vetted candidate Hillary going head-on with the unqualified and personality-disordered candidate Donald, a female David vs. a male chauvinist pig Goliath. The unseemly Donald has his pathetic tribe of poorly-educated sycophants stuck in the Dark Ages of misogyny, while high-achieving Hillary leads the way toward enlightenment. I measure the success of feminism by the loudness of screams from the patriarchy. Soon these screams will diminish into a faint echo, Trump will take his faux-gold marbles and retreat to play with himself in his monster castles, as the USA progresses toward fulfilling its mission of equality for all.
8
I was sexually harassed for years. Also not hired because of my sex. Although because of my looks, the men who would not hire me would ask me out right away. The women who were plain were treated worse.
3
It is so much easier to hate than to actually work hard and achieve. It is so much easier to hate than to admit you are a loser. The female percentage of professional schools - law, medicine, veterinary, business - is now over half. In vet school, it is over 3/4. As men increasingly fall behind in education, job opportunities, and income, why are we surprised that misogyny increases, especially among the demographic that once held the superior position? Misogyny, in all its subtle and non-subtle forms, is the lazy man's free pass, the convenient feel-good excuse that revs up testosterone enough to make you forget you are the loser. If you were working hard enough and getting a decent education, you would not have time to hate women.
10
The last sentence of this article is a disturbing conclusion. Mr. Trump has not accomplished anything. I am not afraid.
What is becoming crystal clear to me is there are many who are afraid of a woman president, including Mr. Trump.
What is becoming crystal clear to me is there are many who are afraid of a woman president, including Mr. Trump.
7
Obviously it's disturbing, but it's not new. 1) nobody is seen with compassion in this country. Not immigrants, women, people of color, people with accents, disabled, slow, even many males, including white males. This is, unfortunately, the human condition. Fear fosters hate. (I just finished reading a post on Facebook about how someone in Ohio is planning to intimidate people who don't "talk American" at the polls on Election Day.) 2) there is a survey out there (sorry, don't recall the source) that indicates that some astounding percentage of males (something like close to 100%) would rape a woman if he were never found out; 3) our celebrity culture just feeds into this; it's all part of the same issue. I don't like this pessimistic view, but as a recipient of decades of this type of treatment (not, thank goodness, being lit on fire on the streets of Manhattan though), I can attest to its existence.
4
A question for Donald Trump: Sir, you have certainly had the opportunity to get close to many attractive women during the course of your life. Can you describe to us three ladies that you have become acquainted with. Was Jack the Ripper a misogynist? How about Jeffrey Dahmer? Well, perhaps Jack and Mr. Hyde were. In limiting their victims to the lower class, what were they saying to more elevated women? We get a lot of wonderful music from Beethoven and art from Van Gogh, but there's no evidence they found their soul mate or even hooked up.
No, it never went away. But it was less visible, like noses on our faces. The Catholic Church still institutionalizes misogyny. College campuses, military bases, and corporate towers facilitate it. Its emergence into the light now reminds me of the song: Who Let the Dogs Out? The answer has to be the promoters of the culture of divisiveness that threatens to shred our Union. We might say that in life's progression towards a more perfect Union, towards greater understanding and tolerance, it's a matter of two steps forward and one step back. But when powerful people spend their money actually promoting steps back, we need a hard look at those in Congress who facilitate their corrosive tactics.
5
HIllary's economic plans are profit-centric , pro-business corporations whereas Trump , who has a mind of his own and is no body's puppet is more likely to slay wall street wolves and make people-friendly policies than what the Wall Street babe ever can .
She has no plans for reducing or lightening or for mitigating the student loan burdens because that would go against the interests of the profit-greedy Billionaire crass who have no class .
She has no plans or policies to bring back manufacturing into the US that would create jobs , the means of livelihood for the middle class and the working class because that would cut the profit margins of the business corporations who have sent away jobs to cheap labour countries to make greedier profits to share among the greedy corporate investors without creating jobs in the US .
She would continue to leave the markets free and unregulated free to fleece the public in the name of free market consumeristic economy encouraging people to over consume so that socially irresponsible investors can make greedy excessive profits at the cost of ordinary consumers .
America has gone into the hands of leviathan corporations and has become a Corporatocracy . America is NO MORE a democracy. Not only Politicians but the media , judiciary and the executives have all been hijacked by corporations and made into their puppets rendering the ordinary people "we the 99%" helpless and voiceless. ( contd)
She has no plans for reducing or lightening or for mitigating the student loan burdens because that would go against the interests of the profit-greedy Billionaire crass who have no class .
She has no plans or policies to bring back manufacturing into the US that would create jobs , the means of livelihood for the middle class and the working class because that would cut the profit margins of the business corporations who have sent away jobs to cheap labour countries to make greedier profits to share among the greedy corporate investors without creating jobs in the US .
She would continue to leave the markets free and unregulated free to fleece the public in the name of free market consumeristic economy encouraging people to over consume so that socially irresponsible investors can make greedy excessive profits at the cost of ordinary consumers .
America has gone into the hands of leviathan corporations and has become a Corporatocracy . America is NO MORE a democracy. Not only Politicians but the media , judiciary and the executives have all been hijacked by corporations and made into their puppets rendering the ordinary people "we the 99%" helpless and voiceless. ( contd)
1
@zeitgeist in London- Keep your Brexit opinions in the UK! Please! Thank you!
In 1986, when I was in my early 30's, I was waiting for a bus with three or four other people in downtown Berkeley, and a man walked by and put out his lit cigarette on my upper arm -- it left a blister. I did not report it to the police. Everyone else avoided eye contact. These things happen all the time, I think especially to young women. They are not new.
5
If the Times regards rampant misogyny as cause for concern, even though it empowers men without threatening them, one must wonder why there has been so little media attention given to transcripts of Trump's many visits to the despicable Howard Stern's show to engage in extended bouts of the same type of male-bonding "banter" as caught on Access Hollywood tapes. Intense focus on a single instance has allowed Trump roo, to excuse the episode as exceptional. Failing to cite corroborating evidence makes it appear that the media are protecting Howard Stern as fondly as they formerly did Hugh Hefner and Larry Flynt as First Amendment heroes to sanctify their misogynist treatment of women.
5
It's not back because it never went away. It has taken different forms but it always existed in almost all cultures. While men may be the perpetrators, women have frequently been co-opted and led to believe that such behavior was excusable or even a compliment. Half the human race has been treated as second class citizens since.......?
After seeing that Donald Trump's behavior has not in any way diminished his appeal among both male and female supporters, can there be any doubt that misogyny is STILL the only universally approved and supported form of hatred.
Perhaps Donald Trumps inexcusable behavior is a "gift" or a wake up call to the rest of us who have internalized, without awareness, the hateful, crude and disrespectful manner in which one half of the human race treats the other. Personally, based on our history, I am not very hopeful. In fact, I am close to despair.
After seeing that Donald Trump's behavior has not in any way diminished his appeal among both male and female supporters, can there be any doubt that misogyny is STILL the only universally approved and supported form of hatred.
Perhaps Donald Trumps inexcusable behavior is a "gift" or a wake up call to the rest of us who have internalized, without awareness, the hateful, crude and disrespectful manner in which one half of the human race treats the other. Personally, based on our history, I am not very hopeful. In fact, I am close to despair.
8
“I was completely astounded,” Mark Potok, the editor of the organization’s semiannual Intelligence Report, told me. “I had no idea that there was this dark world of woman hatred."
Ladies, a show of hands -- how many were even remotely surprised, let alone astounded? None? That's what I thought.
Ladies, a show of hands -- how many were even remotely surprised, let alone astounded? None? That's what I thought.
14
If someone hates women who threaten her power, does that make her a misogynist? The real question her is whether Hillary Clinton is a closet misogynist.
2
That's your response to this article? That's it? Unbelievable. I take that back. Having read the article and so many statements by women, your response is completely, sadly, believable.
4
It is revealing of the warped way feminists see the world that Bellafante would launch into a rant about man's inhumanity to woman without even acknowledging that men are still far more likely to be victims of violence than women -- and by at least an order of magnitude if not more. If women have plenty to be frightened of, then that is true a fortiori of men -- or don't men's lives matter (as much)? Isn't Bellafante carrying feminist self-absorption to a ridiculous extreme?
And what is the point of quoting loony tunes blogs other than to excite misandry? Bellafante reminds me of the story about the Hearst newspapers artist Frederic Remington. Hearst had sent Remington to draw illustrations for his newspaper. When Remington cabled from Cuba in 1897 that "there will be no war," William Randolph Hearst cabled back: "You furnish the pictures and I'll furnish the war." Hearst went on to whip up a public fury with exaggerated stories of Spanish atrocities that led to US intervention. Today the New York Times is using Bellafante and her cherry-picked "atrocity stories" to inflame hatred against men -- some of whose poisoned fruit you can find in the comments section.
And what is the point of quoting loony tunes blogs other than to excite misandry? Bellafante reminds me of the story about the Hearst newspapers artist Frederic Remington. Hearst had sent Remington to draw illustrations for his newspaper. When Remington cabled from Cuba in 1897 that "there will be no war," William Randolph Hearst cabled back: "You furnish the pictures and I'll furnish the war." Hearst went on to whip up a public fury with exaggerated stories of Spanish atrocities that led to US intervention. Today the New York Times is using Bellafante and her cherry-picked "atrocity stories" to inflame hatred against men -- some of whose poisoned fruit you can find in the comments section.
2
This is why I am close to despair.
2
Yes, men are more likely to be victims of violence. And who perpetrates the violence against them? Is it usually women, or other men?
3
From a quick look through some of the comments here (a thoroughgoing perusal would be far too nauseating) it could be surmised that Mr. Trump and his minions have successfully turned much of the argument over his own misbehavior on its head and used it as yet another way to keep us at each others' throats. All of this is right out of the pages of "Mein Kampf", folks--and sadly it appears to be working every bit as well here and now as it did in Germany in the 1930's.
6
I guess feminism isn't so passe after all. I guess we don't really have "equality" at all. Remember how the whole woman card was so irrelevant-- no one would vote for Hillary because she is a woman. Hey, I get that. Some women have been the worst-- Phyliss Schafley. Trump spoke at her funeral-- how perfect. he eulogized a woman who spent her lifetime putting other women in their place for teh Repbublican male establishment. Well, as it turns out, maybe women, still have some very serious problems with having any kind of real equality with men. Whenn you scratch the surface of this issue it just goes deeper and deeper, and on and on. Denial is actually a river in Egypt.
3
This is the most horrifying column that I have read in a long time. Horrifying because it rings true. As a highly educated, highly employed mother of 2 my worries are generally around schedules - who's traveling when, who's cooking dinner etc. As a grad student in organic chemistry in the 80s, i was 1 of 2 women in a group of 20 - and it was an eye opener, since the guys felt no need to sensor their discussions. But these (crude) guys did not hate women and were not threatened by women. We should not kid ourselves that we are safe in the face of misogeny as described here.
4
Great article great comments. We have adults in this country who don't know the definition of the words procuring, pandering, consent, predatory behavior. Our media, i.e., movies, television, advertising is saturated with sexual innuendo. Organized religion has successfully codified second class status for woman. Combine that with adults walking around with no understanding of human sexuality or having received any education about sex from parents, religious institutions, or their school system. Boys receiving their only understanding of sex from pornography. Young women buying into the concept that it is a man's world and we have to play by their rules. Add to that boys who grow up with power and control issues because they were horribly dominated by a parent when they were very young or their role model was a father dominating their mother. What do you get?
3
I think a big aspect of sexism, and related forms of prejudices, is that perhaps each generation has to learn the lessons themselves, or unlearn bad lessons themselves.
As an older male who went to grade school in NY in the 70's, I am startled that lessons I thought my generation had attained, seemed to have been unlearned, or ignored, or never learned, by subsequent generations.
But I now think this is just how it works. Sexism, racism, prejudice of all kinds, are not a "once and for all" kind of thing. Each generation grows up in its own era, and has to learn these lessons anew, it seems. Maybe we just need to realize that, and accept it as one of the challenges of progress.
As to someone like Trump, I do not think he has ever learned much of anything. And now, we all have to clean up the mess he has made.
Progress is not a one time deal. It is garden that requires constant tending -- and weeding.
As an older male who went to grade school in NY in the 70's, I am startled that lessons I thought my generation had attained, seemed to have been unlearned, or ignored, or never learned, by subsequent generations.
But I now think this is just how it works. Sexism, racism, prejudice of all kinds, are not a "once and for all" kind of thing. Each generation grows up in its own era, and has to learn these lessons anew, it seems. Maybe we just need to realize that, and accept it as one of the challenges of progress.
As to someone like Trump, I do not think he has ever learned much of anything. And now, we all have to clean up the mess he has made.
Progress is not a one time deal. It is garden that requires constant tending -- and weeding.
1
I think women need classes teaching us exactly how, using the advantage of surprise, to legally kill our physical attackers.
1
In times past, a female pregnant with a baby at each breast couldn't go fight the males from the other tribe who wanted to take over the water hole.
Who could? The males of the tribe who had greater upper-body strength, no babies to carry or feed, and plenty of time to whittle a spear point. Plus hunting and killing experience.
In order to be a properly-prepared defender, the male had to subjugate softer emotions and instead nurture killer aggression.
In order to procreate, he had to turn that aggression on the female. Anyone who has witnessed Mother Nature in action has seen that animal procreation, from ducks to elks, is essentially violent rape.
We are still trying to tame nature. Civilized humans have tried to do this for centuries, with education, literature and law. But, apparently, we haven't given it enough time.
Even though Hillary Clinton will probably win this election, 44% of the American electorate still eagerly support Donald Trump. And about half of them are women who say "That's just men talking." We're still waiting for civilization to arrive.
Hillary Clinton is, indeed, the only person who stands between us and rampant, unleashed, biological, and therefore pre-civilized, misogyny. No to mention bigotry, homophobia and xenophobia.
Or climate change denial, which will allow Mother Nature to eat civilization like a ripe peach.
Who could? The males of the tribe who had greater upper-body strength, no babies to carry or feed, and plenty of time to whittle a spear point. Plus hunting and killing experience.
In order to be a properly-prepared defender, the male had to subjugate softer emotions and instead nurture killer aggression.
In order to procreate, he had to turn that aggression on the female. Anyone who has witnessed Mother Nature in action has seen that animal procreation, from ducks to elks, is essentially violent rape.
We are still trying to tame nature. Civilized humans have tried to do this for centuries, with education, literature and law. But, apparently, we haven't given it enough time.
Even though Hillary Clinton will probably win this election, 44% of the American electorate still eagerly support Donald Trump. And about half of them are women who say "That's just men talking." We're still waiting for civilization to arrive.
Hillary Clinton is, indeed, the only person who stands between us and rampant, unleashed, biological, and therefore pre-civilized, misogyny. No to mention bigotry, homophobia and xenophobia.
Or climate change denial, which will allow Mother Nature to eat civilization like a ripe peach.
2
We could begin by paying attention to the messages in the media. Hollywood needs to step up and treat women better in television and film. It needs to send the message that women are partners not pets. This paper as well as MSNBC and CNN need to stop presenting this election in terms of how it affects Donald Trump and almost exclusively from Donald Trump's
perspective. I can barely watch the news channels because they are so biased in their reporting. EVERYTHING is from Donald Trump's POV. It's almost as if HRC is a inconsequential candidate that woke up from making waffles one morning and decided to run for President.
We need more women in Congress. We need more women CEO's. We need to stop telling little girls they are worth nothing without the right breast size and the right hair color. We need women in STEM fields to be treated like the professionals they are rather than some novelty to be dismissed.
We need to remove religion from our national political discourse. Any elected official found to be pushing a religious agenda should be impeached and removed from office.
I am so glad to finally be able to have this conversation. We've spent enormous public coin on equality for very tiny segments of society who have been ridiculed and yet women are still fair game to every marauding fool with a podium or a penthouse. More than 50% of the population still struggles under conditions that we would never tolerate for other "minorities".
perspective. I can barely watch the news channels because they are so biased in their reporting. EVERYTHING is from Donald Trump's POV. It's almost as if HRC is a inconsequential candidate that woke up from making waffles one morning and decided to run for President.
We need more women in Congress. We need more women CEO's. We need to stop telling little girls they are worth nothing without the right breast size and the right hair color. We need women in STEM fields to be treated like the professionals they are rather than some novelty to be dismissed.
We need to remove religion from our national political discourse. Any elected official found to be pushing a religious agenda should be impeached and removed from office.
I am so glad to finally be able to have this conversation. We've spent enormous public coin on equality for very tiny segments of society who have been ridiculed and yet women are still fair game to every marauding fool with a podium or a penthouse. More than 50% of the population still struggles under conditions that we would never tolerate for other "minorities".
3
To those women who have not yet decided Not to be Victims or Prey, who feel intimidated and powerless to act, use tools, learn to use them, form alliances and protection groups, get it documented and get a restraining order. All bullies are cowards. Nothing that a few zip ties can't handle. He's gotta' sleep sometime.
I see an interesting parallel between men who don't see the prevalence of misogyny in our society and whites who don't see how prevalent racism is.
5
Reading today about an African American female MD offering her professional help on a Delta flight and being told, "we need a real doctor, sweetie. Take your seat," as a white Mann stepped forward I pondered the perpetual dilemma of women. We may have more and better experience mixed with superior credentials but are constantly asked to prove it. The default measure of a man is that he is credentialed and competent. He may have less than half the experience but we still demand proof of competency from women. Men are known to claim competency that they don't yet have to get high paying, high powered jobs. They intend to get on the job training from friendly, male mentors who never try to grab their privates. Women aren't expected (or permitted) to apply for any position they don't already know inside and out Andy then, again, they must prove it. And hey may get chased around the desk by that friendly "mentor."
6
It's not back because it never went away. It has taken different forms but it always existed in almost all cultures. While men may be the perpetrators, women have frequently been co-opted and led to believe that such behavior was excusable or even a compliment. Half the human race has been treated as second class citizens since.......?
After seeing that Donald Trump's behavior has not in any way diminished his appeal among both male and female supporters, can there be any doubt that misogyny is STILL the only universally approved and supported form of hatred.
Perhaps Donald Trumps inexcusable behavior is a "gift" or a wake up call to the rest of us who have internalized, without awareness, the hateful, crude and disrespectful manner in which one half of the human race treats the other. Personally, based on our history, I am not very hopeful. In fact, I am close to despair.
After seeing that Donald Trump's behavior has not in any way diminished his appeal among both male and female supporters, can there be any doubt that misogyny is STILL the only universally approved and supported form of hatred.
Perhaps Donald Trumps inexcusable behavior is a "gift" or a wake up call to the rest of us who have internalized, without awareness, the hateful, crude and disrespectful manner in which one half of the human race treats the other. Personally, based on our history, I am not very hopeful. In fact, I am close to despair.
4
Don't forget about all the primetime procedurals (Criminal Minds, Law & Order: SVU, etc) whose main content--week after week-- is violence against wimen.
3
Thank you for the reminders.
1
Here's a self-test of your misogyny quotient:
1) You're a new dad or mom of a baby boy and the nurse puts a primarily pink knitted hat on him. What's the first thing you think or do?
2) You're a new dad or mom of a baby girl and the nurse puts a primarily blue knitted hat on her. What's the first thing you think or do?
I'd love for my anecdotal observations as a labor and delivery nurse to be subjected to the rigors of scientific inquiry.
1) You're a new dad or mom of a baby boy and the nurse puts a primarily pink knitted hat on him. What's the first thing you think or do?
2) You're a new dad or mom of a baby girl and the nurse puts a primarily blue knitted hat on her. What's the first thing you think or do?
I'd love for my anecdotal observations as a labor and delivery nurse to be subjected to the rigors of scientific inquiry.
1
Any nurse who places a pink hat on my son is subject to swift and immediate termination.
How is it that all of Trump's accusers are lying and all Bill's are telling the truth? This guy is amazing, but what is more amazing is that there are still his base supporters who don't care about his behavior. He can lie all day long and they just brush it off. Sure, Hillary has not been 100% truthful, but there is absolutely no comparison.
4
To the men:
We ought to question ourselves any time we look upon, or think about, women as somehow "less than" us in any way. Different from us, yes. But not less than us, in worth, in any way. Let's always bring that to the forefront of our minds, guys. R-E-S-P-E-C-T, as the 70's song says.
To the women:
Please know that we men really need your teaching, your guidance, and your clarity, regarding the rules of the game are, regarding how to talk to you, and whether or not and how to touch you. Please have some mercy toward us, and continue to teach us.
Specfically tell HOW to treat you well. People aren't mind readers. They must be taught.
While there are some bright lines that all American men in 2016 ought to know not to cross -- and Trump has grossly trespassed over them repeatedly -- there remains the grey area where women need to help men (please?). Teach men how to appropriately compliment you. Teach us when, where (i.e., in what settings), and how to touch you (or not touch you) respectfully. Nice guts WANT to know.
Only through teaching is culture passed down fro person to person, and generation to generation.
This, certainly, is a teachable moment. Let's not squander it. Nor engage in thoughtless broadsides.
Let's learn how to bring out the best in one another. Now's the time.
We ought to question ourselves any time we look upon, or think about, women as somehow "less than" us in any way. Different from us, yes. But not less than us, in worth, in any way. Let's always bring that to the forefront of our minds, guys. R-E-S-P-E-C-T, as the 70's song says.
To the women:
Please know that we men really need your teaching, your guidance, and your clarity, regarding the rules of the game are, regarding how to talk to you, and whether or not and how to touch you. Please have some mercy toward us, and continue to teach us.
Specfically tell HOW to treat you well. People aren't mind readers. They must be taught.
While there are some bright lines that all American men in 2016 ought to know not to cross -- and Trump has grossly trespassed over them repeatedly -- there remains the grey area where women need to help men (please?). Teach men how to appropriately compliment you. Teach us when, where (i.e., in what settings), and how to touch you (or not touch you) respectfully. Nice guts WANT to know.
Only through teaching is culture passed down fro person to person, and generation to generation.
This, certainly, is a teachable moment. Let's not squander it. Nor engage in thoughtless broadsides.
Let's learn how to bring out the best in one another. Now's the time.
1
You have to be taught? Didn't you ever hear of that "do unto others" saying? We have to teach you not to grope, grab, insult, taunt, attack? You don't usually do these things to other men, so why would you do them to women?
3
Frankly this a pretty disgusting comment masquerading as concern for women.
"Specfically tell HOW to treat you well. People aren't mind readers. They must be taught."
Translation: If men abuse women, it's women's fault because women have never explained right and wrong to men.
If you don't know right from wrong, why are you roaming the streets?
"Specfically tell HOW to treat you well. People aren't mind readers. They must be taught."
Translation: If men abuse women, it's women's fault because women have never explained right and wrong to men.
If you don't know right from wrong, why are you roaming the streets?
1
let us propose legislation that allows women to purchase and carry handguns without background checks and see how long it takes the NRA et al to beat at the doors of Congress for new gun laws.
2
Like so many others who have commented on this issue, I can't remember the number of times men have exposed themselves, groped me on the NY subway, catcalled, etc. And a very large number of the women I know have been raped, either by acquaintances, strangers, or husbands. One was raped by a cop she called on for help after her home had been robbed. Just whom do you complain to when the overwhelming majority of men will ask, "What were you wearing? What did you do to lead him on? Did you have anything (alcoholic) to drink that evening?"
When a woman is raped in many Third World and/or Muslim countries, she is shunned as damaged goods or even killed to "protect the family honor." Here she is often derided as a slut or a crazy person. Patriarchy still rules.
When a woman is raped in many Third World and/or Muslim countries, she is shunned as damaged goods or even killed to "protect the family honor." Here she is often derided as a slut or a crazy person. Patriarchy still rules.
4
It reached a pinnacle with Jack Kennedy and Bill Clinton, both as presidents having extramarital affairs.
Oh, but they are Democrats so it is OK.
Oh, but they are Democrats so it is OK.
2
question: How was Lou Dobbs allowed to post the email of one of Trump's accusers on his program and not kicked off the air as punishment?
3
Fringe hate groups recruit members by convincing them that they themselves are superior based upon that with which they are born, i.e., race, gender, religious affiliation, ethnicity, and nationality. Often the recruit people are marginalized people whose lives have not gone much of anywhere. They are not successful in what they do or have done, but the group offers them superiority based upon who they are. They do not have to DO anything or accomplish anything in order to own this superiority. For the Skin Heads, Nazis, neo-Nazis etc., superiority rests in race, but secondarily in ethnicity, Christianity (sadly), and gender. "I am better than you and can denigrate you and push you around or even exile you simply because I am white (or Christian or male) and you are not.
Trump attracts this same crowd because he speaks the language of superiority and inferiority based upon the same elements. For Trump himself, the root is his fragile narcissism, which depends upon constant "love" from others and continuous adulation. His seemingly limitless ego is simply a cover for low self-esteem, self-doubt, and worry. Hence, no matter how big the cheering crowd, he cannot tolerate criticism (i.e., someone not loving & adoring him) and must lash out anytime it comes at him. His lashing out usually falls into the fringe group categories, gender, race, ethnicity, religious affiliation reaffirming his own 'superiority' and that of his fans.
Trump attracts this same crowd because he speaks the language of superiority and inferiority based upon the same elements. For Trump himself, the root is his fragile narcissism, which depends upon constant "love" from others and continuous adulation. His seemingly limitless ego is simply a cover for low self-esteem, self-doubt, and worry. Hence, no matter how big the cheering crowd, he cannot tolerate criticism (i.e., someone not loving & adoring him) and must lash out anytime it comes at him. His lashing out usually falls into the fringe group categories, gender, race, ethnicity, religious affiliation reaffirming his own 'superiority' and that of his fans.
24
Hislop. Well, you've certainly learned the current party line, that narcissists' vanity is nothing but a front for excessive insecurity. One hears it over and over. I wonder how many people share your fantasy that Trump has somehow revealed this secret inner self to the public.
Whereas it's as obvious as the day that the last thing Trump is, is a worrier.
His fury when crossed is the anger of a spoiled child who is frustrated in something he assumed he could do. But that isn't remotely insecurity.
Whereas it's as obvious as the day that the last thing Trump is, is a worrier.
His fury when crossed is the anger of a spoiled child who is frustrated in something he assumed he could do. But that isn't remotely insecurity.
Those online groups fomenting hatred for women are deeply disturbing. They are the cancers of the internet, akin to child pornography and pedophile sites, because the really convince a certain number of dangerous people that they are in the right. I am happy the the Southern Poverty Law Center has begun monitoring them. I see them as potential home ground terrorists.
39
Women have been treated differently going back to biblical times. As Adam and Eve were expelled from Eden women were commanded to serve man. Genesis 3:16.
There will be a paradigm shift November 8.
There will be a paradigm shift November 8.
27
"There will be a paradigm shift November 8."
You seriously think everything is going to magically change if Mrs. Clinton gets elected? Just like that?
You seriously think everything is going to magically change if Mrs. Clinton gets elected? Just like that?
And guess who wrote that?
These are modern intelligent times, whereas those flights of fantasy from ancient male diatribes live-on unbelievably unabated, nor discarded as detritus. Though we really have not evolved brain-wise, to become honestly-wise.
I settled one sex discrimination case with Computer Factory and have another pending at the Department of Education Office of Civil Rights against CUNY's Graduate Center.
Gender bias never abated, except for the few with powerful relatives.
Gender bias never abated, except for the few with powerful relatives.
9
Whenever a woman writes about this (the everyday reality that every single woman has to live with), without fail dozens of men pop out of the woodwork to say "not me!" This reaction indicates to me that they are well aware of their complicity in the mistreatment of women, and feel defensive when called on it. This isn't surprising, as most of these men probably realize deep down that they need to change their own behavior. This doesn't just mean not attacking and assaulting women, it means speaking up or even acting to prevent this type of behavior in other men. A man making a rape joke isn't going to listen to the woman offended by it, but he might listen if his male friends tell him they don't want to hear it.
41
Erin, I have never met a man who didn't who.eheartedly believe that he was the exception to the rule. The other reason they do this is because it's all about them not you.
3
And sometimes it means simply listening with open ears to what women are saying, to their stories, without trotting out the "not all men" refrain. Yes, we know; not all men. Were we talking about you?
3
Of course misogyny has never gone away, and it never will. Don't be so naive! The best we can do is to be aware and educate our young men as well as we can about the worth of women.
14
There will always be fringe groups and wacky random criminal acts. It is bizarre to me that crime of all kinds has been decreasing over the decades yet everyone feels as if the sky is falling. Wake up to the message of fear that is being sold to you in exchange for advertising dollars and for political purposes and take heart that we are on the right path and things are only going to continue to improve.
2
Misogynist attitudes never left...how could they be back? Women have had time deal with crazy men and their self-righteous actions for all of time.
See, I know a little about both sides of the story. I transitioned to become a Transgender woman only 3 years ago, and I'm 28 now. I spent my whole young life as a super priviledged white boy, and that will definitely breed an elitist attitude into you.
I never really took advantage of women because secretly I knew I was one, at least in my mind. I did not like sex or anything like that. However, I saw a lot of misogyny, even st the college I went to, MIT.
After transitioning, I was basically just made fun of for a year. To go from one of the most priviledged groups their is to one of the least priviledged groups is a tough deal. After I became more passable, then I suddenly am getting verbally assaulted and objectified on a regular basis.
It's amazing what women and Trans-women have to go through. Men, please give us all a break!!
See, I know a little about both sides of the story. I transitioned to become a Transgender woman only 3 years ago, and I'm 28 now. I spent my whole young life as a super priviledged white boy, and that will definitely breed an elitist attitude into you.
I never really took advantage of women because secretly I knew I was one, at least in my mind. I did not like sex or anything like that. However, I saw a lot of misogyny, even st the college I went to, MIT.
After transitioning, I was basically just made fun of for a year. To go from one of the most priviledged groups their is to one of the least priviledged groups is a tough deal. After I became more passable, then I suddenly am getting verbally assaulted and objectified on a regular basis.
It's amazing what women and Trans-women have to go through. Men, please give us all a break!!
33
And trans men have to deal with the assumption that they share the misogynistic attitude that the cis-guys do. Quite a revelation to see what only the other half experiences.
Trans people have a unique perspective that can enlighten us all. Thank you for sharing yours. Congrats on your journey.
Trans people have a unique perspective that can enlighten us all. Thank you for sharing yours. Congrats on your journey.
i don't hate women. i have always been on good terms with them. heck some of them have even been loving and loved and cherished family members. both my folks were raised with no hatred of the other gender and they sure did not allow it to manifest in either of their boys. in ignorance i didn't even know there was a dark web of women hating websites. how sad. as life continues a person is supposed to grow. the fact that this trump creature has fully ignited this conversation might be the only good thing his whole presidential run will accomplish. it bothered me that fellow republicans didn't start walking away till he had assaulted white women. so i guess misogyny and racism go hand in hand. wow
27
Misogyny is not a Democrat or Republican issue even though the Republicans are worse since they spend all their time and our tax dollars fighting to stop reproductive rights for women.. Trump hates women and sees them as objects to feed his ego. The one good thing about his contempt for women is that we are angry and we will stand up against this kind of degradation. It's enough. No more " locker room talk"
Most of the men I know are horrified by Trump and his treatment of women. And he's so stupid he brags about
It!
Most of the men I know are horrified by Trump and his treatment of women. And he's so stupid he brags about
It!
28
Misogyny is fully supported by anyone who supports Trump. Including the Republican Party. As I see it now, I will never vote for a republican again. You have lost my vote forever.
88
It is this type of generalization like yours on people who support Trump that is misguided. You are a victim of the mainstream media conditioning your mind in certain narratives that are often false and ignore other factoids that are blatantly in my opinion obvious. It is a fact that HRC has gone through great lengths to suppress Bill Clinton's rape victims. There are many of them. Not because she is just protecting him, but to not allow his CRIMES from undermining her ascension to more power. How do you support this woman, who won't allow Bill to have any further contact with his alleged illegitimate kids? Did you know that? She is a proven liar! A proven criminal! How come this paper and others like it fail to hold Hillary to the same standard of scrutiny as they do Trump? Ill tell you why. He's not part of the establishment! He's not bought by Wallstreet, unlike Clinton. He cant be influenced by major corporations either, unlike Clinton. Yes, her resume is impressive. However, further analysis reveals she had failed in every public position she has ever had. Either alot of money wasted and/or people have been killed as a result of her policies. Facts! Trump is not the most gracious man in the world, but by any means when you compare his scale of skeletons in his closet against the Clinton's graveyard...no comparison. The real conversation we as a country should be having is how did we end up with these two? This is best our country has to offer to lead? Really?
2
Anyone who can entertain the notion that misogyny ever "went away" is very young, or remarkably naive, or an insulated male who thinks that because he is not misogynistic, other men aren't either.
66
Misogyny is alive and well in America, at all levels. Rich, poor, intelligent or not. They are out there and I have been inappropriately touched or verbalized to by them.
14
sorry, that should have been fellow senior art director, who was male. I am female.
4
Misogyny never when away and neither did the snobbish and phony Mrs. Clinton! What rational person would vote for a proven serial liar and cold corrupt leader? Are we really that desperate and needy? I've often preferred my illusion that good intentions trumps evil doings regardless of sex or other characteristic qualities. Sorry but I can not find any good intentions in HRC's media driven campaign worth voting for! Jill not Hill!
4
Charles, you have stumbled into the wrong room. Leave immediately. You want the comment section at WAPO where MRA activists troll.
Hehehe...MRA...meals ready to eat. Get used to them, my friend.
Hehehe...MRA...meals ready to eat. Get used to them, my friend.
1
My Mother's cousin was a secretary for Strom Thurmond during the 1940's. Years ago she told us that none of the ladies in the office could leave for the day without giving him a kiss on the lips.
In 1984, during my first job after college, a male coworker came into my office after hours and asked if he could touch my breasts. I nervously laughed, told him no, and went back to working on my computer. He sat down in one of the chairs behind me and began chatting. I wasn't really scared since he was a short, frumpy guy whereas I'm tall and athletic, but it was still awkward as hell.
And then I heard it - I couldn't see it, didn't want to see it, but I heard it. He had whipped it out and was pleasuring himself. I just kept typing at the computer like nothing was happening. Finally, it stopped and he had the nerve to ask me for a tissue. I had a box on my desk so I ripped one out and held it behind my back - I was not going to turn around and witness anything. And without another word, he walked out. When I got home that evening, I sure had a crazy story to tell my roommates.
I was 22 years old and had never heard the term sexual harassment. I didn't report the incident - I didn't even tell my boss, who was a woman. This was just the way things were, to which thousands and thousands of women can attest. It seems apparent that the Trump video has unleashed our collective memories of the indignities we have suffered over the years at the hands of "privileged" men.
In 1984, during my first job after college, a male coworker came into my office after hours and asked if he could touch my breasts. I nervously laughed, told him no, and went back to working on my computer. He sat down in one of the chairs behind me and began chatting. I wasn't really scared since he was a short, frumpy guy whereas I'm tall and athletic, but it was still awkward as hell.
And then I heard it - I couldn't see it, didn't want to see it, but I heard it. He had whipped it out and was pleasuring himself. I just kept typing at the computer like nothing was happening. Finally, it stopped and he had the nerve to ask me for a tissue. I had a box on my desk so I ripped one out and held it behind my back - I was not going to turn around and witness anything. And without another word, he walked out. When I got home that evening, I sure had a crazy story to tell my roommates.
I was 22 years old and had never heard the term sexual harassment. I didn't report the incident - I didn't even tell my boss, who was a woman. This was just the way things were, to which thousands and thousands of women can attest. It seems apparent that the Trump video has unleashed our collective memories of the indignities we have suffered over the years at the hands of "privileged" men.
98
I am sorry to hear that, though I have similar stories from when I was that age around the same time. I wish you hadn't given him the tissue, though certainly I -- in my naïveté -- would have done the same thing.
@Jenny: Yes indeed, you would have done the same thing, and not simply because you were naive.
If this incident had happened to me when I was that young, I would have been so shocked, scared, mortified and enraged that my thinking would have been paralyzed and I would have acted moment to moment on survival instinct.... i.e., trying to be as docile as possible so as not to incite any further violating actions from this crazy guy.
So yes I am sure I would have given him the tissue, just trying to get through the repulsive, frightening situation without further harm.
I wouldn't have done what a bunch of males currently commenting are telling women they should do in the face of sexual aggression: "Why didn't you just kick him in the nuts?" etc. etc. Apparently we are supposed to physically resist, or else be held responsible for what has been done to us. That kind of idiotic suggestion ignores the fundamental fact that average man is stronger than the average woman. That fundamental fact is something no woman can ever afford to overlook.
If this incident had happened to me when I was that young, I would have been so shocked, scared, mortified and enraged that my thinking would have been paralyzed and I would have acted moment to moment on survival instinct.... i.e., trying to be as docile as possible so as not to incite any further violating actions from this crazy guy.
So yes I am sure I would have given him the tissue, just trying to get through the repulsive, frightening situation without further harm.
I wouldn't have done what a bunch of males currently commenting are telling women they should do in the face of sexual aggression: "Why didn't you just kick him in the nuts?" etc. etc. Apparently we are supposed to physically resist, or else be held responsible for what has been done to us. That kind of idiotic suggestion ignores the fundamental fact that average man is stronger than the average woman. That fundamental fact is something no woman can ever afford to overlook.
When I was in my early '20s, a construction contractor in Atlanta, I made it a point to always be on jobsites before any of my subs got there. One very cold morning I was waiting at the site when the lady of the house invited me into the kitchen while I waited. I was standing in the kitchen when the husband walked in. I stuck out my hand, ready to say, "Good morning, So-and-so," when he grabbed me and kissed me. I didn't know what to do or say. There was his wife, a room away, getting their children ready for school, and he had grabbed me like that.
In the 40 some-odd years since then, I never told a soul about it. Was it my fault? Did I somehow indicate to this man that I wanted him to grab me? Was it me?
Last week, when I spoke to a ladies philanthropic group, I told the story, and I watched recognition flare in their eyes.
It wasn't me. It isn't us. It's them.
In the 40 some-odd years since then, I never told a soul about it. Was it my fault? Did I somehow indicate to this man that I wanted him to grab me? Was it me?
Last week, when I spoke to a ladies philanthropic group, I told the story, and I watched recognition flare in their eyes.
It wasn't me. It isn't us. It's them.
118
Thank you for your vulnerability, men who are misogynists will never understand and the women who turn a blind eye to misogyny won't either. But trust me, the majority of women and many compassionate men know that what you say is true.
1
Stunned and sad to see so many online hate groups aimed at women. I hope the next study looks at how many of them vote Trump and Republican. And why women would vote Trump alongside with these misogynistic after all this-- brainwashing? denial?
33
"Stunned and sad to see so many online hate groups aimed at women. I hope the next study looks at how many of them vote Trump and Republican. And why women would vote Trump alongside with these misogynistic after all this-- brainwashing? denial?" Electroman70
Stockholm Syndrome.
Stockholm Syndrome.
1
It can seem safer to side with a powerful aggressor. A form of collaboration.
1
“Collective male rage” sums it up. On bad days (and there are many as this travesty of an election continues to mutate), I find myself going with “existential threat.” Is that fair to most men? Probably not. But as a group, men are dangerous to women, and even though men don’t see it, women live it every single day. Even having a discussion with gentle, kind men about the threat level that requires us to be constantly hypervigilant becomes an exercise in soothing their feelings and reassuring them that they aren’t truly like the overt women haters. We can’t even express what’s happening to us without the men making it all about themselves.
Women have dealt with the onslaught of misogyny for our whole lives. Most of us have been subjected to some level of assault, from groping to rape. Hard to say what’s going on in the minds of men (see Nate Silver’s startling graphic about the election outcome if only men, or only women voted). But I can guarantee you that a substantial part of the female population in America is suffering from PTSD, triggered by the barrage of raw hatred that Trump has normalized in the name of not being “politically correct.” Men might be appalled at a Trump win, but women have good reason to be horrified, as the movement to force women back to second-class status is codified. We are already locked in the struggle to wrest the control of our bodies and lives away from men. It’s going to get so much worse if he wins.
Women have dealt with the onslaught of misogyny for our whole lives. Most of us have been subjected to some level of assault, from groping to rape. Hard to say what’s going on in the minds of men (see Nate Silver’s startling graphic about the election outcome if only men, or only women voted). But I can guarantee you that a substantial part of the female population in America is suffering from PTSD, triggered by the barrage of raw hatred that Trump has normalized in the name of not being “politically correct.” Men might be appalled at a Trump win, but women have good reason to be horrified, as the movement to force women back to second-class status is codified. We are already locked in the struggle to wrest the control of our bodies and lives away from men. It’s going to get so much worse if he wins.
129
So well-said, Claire. Bravo.
I remember the first time a man remarked on my body and how he'd like to use it. I was twelve. I had just gotten a new two-piece bathing suit, and he was my cousin's husband. I remember at fifteen being driven home by the father of the kids I babysat for—he put his hand on my knee and propositioned me. This was a married couple. I'm in my sixties now. I've been attacked from Connecticut to LA to Paris in my time. I have a rape whistle and a Swiss Army knife on my key chain. We need to out our experience.
As I tell my classes—write about it. Kingston writes: "The Chinese character for revenge is 'Tell seven families.'"
#fightlikeagirl
I remember the first time a man remarked on my body and how he'd like to use it. I was twelve. I had just gotten a new two-piece bathing suit, and he was my cousin's husband. I remember at fifteen being driven home by the father of the kids I babysat for—he put his hand on my knee and propositioned me. This was a married couple. I'm in my sixties now. I've been attacked from Connecticut to LA to Paris in my time. I have a rape whistle and a Swiss Army knife on my key chain. We need to out our experience.
As I tell my classes—write about it. Kingston writes: "The Chinese character for revenge is 'Tell seven families.'"
#fightlikeagirl
4
This report is horrifying and unsettling, for lack of an appropriately visceral word. But, before giving in to the outrage that it it inevitably engenders, I have to ask what the traffic volumes on these sites are. That they exist is deeply disturbing, but so are many of the dark corners of the web. Are they significant enough to really have made an impact?
That being said, I would point, perhaps more convincingly, to the market of sexual slavery and forced prostitution.
Who are the men that spend money to rape enslaved women? Apparently there are more of them than I would ever have imagined since the market continues to exist. Any man that has participated in any way in the market of sexual coercion has a deep seated hatred of women in his heart and a permanent stain on his soul. Think about those men and I begin to fear that there is a strong and deep undercurrent of misogyny in American society.
That being said, I would point, perhaps more convincingly, to the market of sexual slavery and forced prostitution.
Who are the men that spend money to rape enslaved women? Apparently there are more of them than I would ever have imagined since the market continues to exist. Any man that has participated in any way in the market of sexual coercion has a deep seated hatred of women in his heart and a permanent stain on his soul. Think about those men and I begin to fear that there is a strong and deep undercurrent of misogyny in American society.
12
As I read this article, I cannot believe it is actually 2016. It sounds like something out of the Dark Ages. Raised by a strong intelligent woman and my Father offered nothing but respect and support, the fact that there are actual hate groups directed toward women is mind boggling. While on the surface, we seem to be evolving deep down, as the article points out, there remains this flicker of insecurity and doubt among some men. Will that ever be extinguished?
8
What I discovered this election cycle is that the "dark world of women hatred" is not just found at a Trump rally - sadly many men who call themselves progressives and were rabid sanders supporters share the same attitudes as their Trump counterparts and just hide it a little better. The language used by these so called Bernie Brothers to demean, insult and characterize any woman who dared to disagree with them was both shocking and a revelation to me. I always incorrectly assumed my fellow liberals viewed me as equal and wanted me to have an equal seat at their table. Turns out it's a lot of lip service. So as I have started the terrible conversation with my seven year old about how to protect herself from boys and men and identify situations and men who could be dangerous I remind her sometimes the wolf will appear as a lamb.
41
This article is filled with man hating rhetoric which parallels the world the author describes regarding men's view of women. Some of us are feminist who love many men and like a lot of them too. We still are working to change the world. Her quote, "One kind of feminism imagines men as an existential threat, another merely as an inconvenience." certainly does not describe me, my feminist daughter and late feminist husband.
3
Whenever women try to talk about their common experience of unwanted touching and sexual assaults by men... inevitably, some men (and a few women) complain that the topic upsets men, so we should shut up about it.
If the men you know are kind and non-violent, guess what? This isn't about them!
Criticizing aspects of male behaviour patterns does not equal "hating men".
As for the people (usually male) who argue that sexual aggression is an inevitable part of masculinity and women just have to accept it as part of life, like the weather... yeah, some women might hate that attitude. Does that surprise you?
Feminists who draw the line at upsetting men are not truly feminists. Sorry.
If the men you know are kind and non-violent, guess what? This isn't about them!
Criticizing aspects of male behaviour patterns does not equal "hating men".
As for the people (usually male) who argue that sexual aggression is an inevitable part of masculinity and women just have to accept it as part of life, like the weather... yeah, some women might hate that attitude. Does that surprise you?
Feminists who draw the line at upsetting men are not truly feminists. Sorry.
1
Really? This isn't "man-hating rhetoric." Because in my family, we are all feminists, too--my husband included--but I have been physically menaced by men all my life, in the course of daily living. I find it inconvenient, and terrifying.
As a lifelong male and a lifelong feminist, I didn't notice any "man hating rhetoric." Even after reading your post and re-reading the article I rally don't see what you mean. You may want to read the article again yourself and reflect on what exactly triggered your defensive feelings. Because the text itself seems quite benign to me.
White supremacists tend to also be sexist. The rise of misogyny is almost uglier than the racism that Pres. Obama faced, maybe because we are not dealing with a minority now, but half the population. Republican governors and Washington politicians have been bulldozing women's rights for years -- anti-abortion, anti women's healthcare and the closure of women's clinics, no fair pay, no minimum wage and other issues.
The rancid sexism associated with Trump is startling. His sexual assault braggadocio was part of his persona, and it turns out part of his actions. A little while ago, I heard Miss North Carolina (2006) speak about Trump entering the dressing room where teenaged young women were changing clothes. Pageant contestants from other years have said the same, including rooms where there girls as young as 15 were.
I've been trying to picture a situation where a high school principal could regularly gain access to the girls' locker room when they were changing and some were nude. Perhaps he groped some or kissed some. Within a day or two, mothers and fathers would contact their school boards and maybe the police. Why is Trump allowed to do this for years?
Where is any morality in the GOP now? Sexism rules the GOP. But women vote.
The rancid sexism associated with Trump is startling. His sexual assault braggadocio was part of his persona, and it turns out part of his actions. A little while ago, I heard Miss North Carolina (2006) speak about Trump entering the dressing room where teenaged young women were changing clothes. Pageant contestants from other years have said the same, including rooms where there girls as young as 15 were.
I've been trying to picture a situation where a high school principal could regularly gain access to the girls' locker room when they were changing and some were nude. Perhaps he groped some or kissed some. Within a day or two, mothers and fathers would contact their school boards and maybe the police. Why is Trump allowed to do this for years?
Where is any morality in the GOP now? Sexism rules the GOP. But women vote.
42
It never went away. It's the origin of patriarchy in all of its ugly manifestations, whether Trumpworld, the GOP, the churches, etc. All of them are obsessed with women's bodies, whether to rate them, control them or attack them.
Misogyny is still here, but women are increasingly revealing its ugly stain throughout the culture. The smug Trumps of the world and their enablers being identified and shamed. The 2016 election has been turned into a referendum on misogyny. And it won't win.
Misogyny is still here, but women are increasingly revealing its ugly stain throughout the culture. The smug Trumps of the world and their enablers being identified and shamed. The 2016 election has been turned into a referendum on misogyny. And it won't win.
17
What a debased culture we live in. I believe the misogyny so prevalent in this country is derived in great part from our economic system; when everything is about the bottom line, how to exploit every resource, turn every individual into just "something" to benefit ourselves, then women become simply a commodity to use as we see fit. Bear our children so our name endures, then raise them. Entertain us sexually: strip clubs, prostitution, internet porn.
Mr. Trump so exemplifies the worst aspects of our culture it's cartoonish. This most unattractive, baffoon-like, gasbag has the audacity to present himself as someone we should exalt, should elect to the highest executive position in the world. This man should be pitied for his lack of humanity. It's one thing for his millions of followers, their minds twisted with partisan hatred to overlook his vileness, but how do his daughters and wife bear to look in the mirror knowing their father and husband thinks so very little of them as people?
Mr. Trump so exemplifies the worst aspects of our culture it's cartoonish. This most unattractive, baffoon-like, gasbag has the audacity to present himself as someone we should exalt, should elect to the highest executive position in the world. This man should be pitied for his lack of humanity. It's one thing for his millions of followers, their minds twisted with partisan hatred to overlook his vileness, but how do his daughters and wife bear to look in the mirror knowing their father and husband thinks so very little of them as people?
24
It has not gone away in large part due to the reliance by most world religions on literal, fundamentalist readings of "holy books" or books of "guidance" that are thousands of years out of date, which describe a world unrecognizeable to 21st-century people, and which have undergone thousands of translations, revisions, rewritings, etc., resulting in a complete lack of a verifiable "original" source that one might accurately and authoritatively assign to a Divinity.
Staying true to organized religions' strictly literal adherence to these female-objectifying, woman-belittling, and male-dominated texts has provided a proven way for misogyny to thrive, under societally-approved institutions...and who would question the ways of any god?...even many women feel fear to act "against" a "Divine will" from which misogyny benefits.
Staying true to organized religions' strictly literal adherence to these female-objectifying, woman-belittling, and male-dominated texts has provided a proven way for misogyny to thrive, under societally-approved institutions...and who would question the ways of any god?...even many women feel fear to act "against" a "Divine will" from which misogyny benefits.
22
Unfortunately, misogyny doesn't magically disappear in the absence of religious belief.
Dig a little into the organized American atheist movement and you will find quite a bit of misogyny - some of it intense.
(For context: I'm an atheist.)
Dig a little into the organized American atheist movement and you will find quite a bit of misogyny - some of it intense.
(For context: I'm an atheist.)
Misogyny wouldn't be as prevalent as it is if women would stick together more and fight together against being demeaned by men (and worse). I get why some men might think that Drumpf is an acceptable candidate, it suits their worldview. I will never, in a million years, understand, why even one single woman would.
37
You can't really be holding women responsible for the problem of misogyny and male sexual aggression?
Even if women don't want to stick together, it would't hurt if individual women would consider giving a guy a good kick in the balls when one of these incidents occurs.
1
Over the last 15 years or so, I have often shared with friends and family what a relief it is to be old (I am 73) and therefore free to move through the world unmolested. From adolescence until late middle age, like all women, I was catcalled, groped, hit on by random strangers. Sixty years later, I can still see the leering faces of men, strangers to me, who grabbed my crotch, or pinched my breasts. I can feel the sinking feeling described so eloquently by Michelle Obama, at the vulgar, explicit descriptions of what men I passed on the street would like to do to my body. But, you know what? It's only the current conversation generated by Trump's disgusting tape, that has made me realize that my relief in old age is but another manifestation of the consequences of predatory behavior. That I rejoice now in a freedom that should ALWAYS have been mine, is humiliating.
86
As most of us know, yesterday, speaking on the Today Show, Mr. Pence, on behalf of his presidential running mate, assured the nation that imminently (yesterday, Friday) Mr. Trump would provide palpable proof that the allegations of sexual harassment and predation made by approximately 7 women thus far were salacious lies.
No proof of any kind was forthcoming.
I've not seen any media coverage that Pence's promise was unfulfilled. The Republican ticket must be held accountable for yet again promising to demonstrate that Mr. Trump, omce again is the victim rather than the perpetrator.
No proof of any kind was forthcoming.
I've not seen any media coverage that Pence's promise was unfulfilled. The Republican ticket must be held accountable for yet again promising to demonstrate that Mr. Trump, omce again is the victim rather than the perpetrator.
19
Never thought at age 67 I would still be dealing with inappropriate behavior and remarks. After moving into a nice senior park I had to put up with sneaky grouping on the part of an 85 year old neighbor. This guy used the "work up to it" method involving a gradual escalation to the grabbing of parts. After smacking the guy a couple times on the feet with a broom he backed off. It starts when girls are teenagers and keeps on going.
I agree with one of the other commentators that this is a male dominance trait. However, some of this behavior is developed in junior high school. The mentality that goes with mysogony shows a lack of male maturity. Hatred of women has many causes. Education about respect needs to start early. It won't cure all of this kind of behavior but it is a start.
I agree with one of the other commentators that this is a male dominance trait. However, some of this behavior is developed in junior high school. The mentality that goes with mysogony shows a lack of male maturity. Hatred of women has many causes. Education about respect needs to start early. It won't cure all of this kind of behavior but it is a start.
31
cat etc Male dominance behavior is not the same as misogyny, which means a hatred of women.
Males who prefer a society in which women are seen as a submissive underclass don't usually hate them in the least; hatred and anger are aroused only when they see signs of revolt -- when their own sense of socially accepted superiority is threatened.
Same, of course, for other examples of revolt against domination.
Males who prefer a society in which women are seen as a submissive underclass don't usually hate them in the least; hatred and anger are aroused only when they see signs of revolt -- when their own sense of socially accepted superiority is threatened.
Same, of course, for other examples of revolt against domination.
While reading this article all I can think about is the time when a fellow male senior Art Director, who had just listened to the complaints of a young male artist who didn't want his work edited by me - the Art Director on the project he was on - pulled me aside in a conference room and screamed at me at the top of his lungs for ten minutes about how I had "no right" to edit the art of this junior artist on my team. I kept saying in calm tones back to him, "I am the Art Director" while I waited for his rage to subside.
This incident was/is painful to me and at the time felt like a violent attack. It shook me badly, even though I knew full well that I had not at all crossed any unusual boundaries, made any decisions that were inappropriate or been dismissive to this young man at all. I simply did my job, directed the art in the same way I had been art directed my entire career when I was in junior positions. And yet the rage shook me. I had to leave the building, walked around it several times, called some friends to ask for advice, and even had a glass of wine to calm my shaken nerves before heading back into the building to deal with it.
Oh no, misogyny never went away. It is most definitely hanging around waiting for us women to trigger the rage that some men have deep within their fragile souls.
PS - he left the company soon after in order to accept a job at another place, but before he could be fired for this incident.
This incident was/is painful to me and at the time felt like a violent attack. It shook me badly, even though I knew full well that I had not at all crossed any unusual boundaries, made any decisions that were inappropriate or been dismissive to this young man at all. I simply did my job, directed the art in the same way I had been art directed my entire career when I was in junior positions. And yet the rage shook me. I had to leave the building, walked around it several times, called some friends to ask for advice, and even had a glass of wine to calm my shaken nerves before heading back into the building to deal with it.
Oh no, misogyny never went away. It is most definitely hanging around waiting for us women to trigger the rage that some men have deep within their fragile souls.
PS - he left the company soon after in order to accept a job at another place, but before he could be fired for this incident.
50
In my genteel and oh so civilized corner of the universe, it just so happened that every single one of my male friends were fervent Sanders supporters and every single one of their wives was for Clinton, and the wives all felt afraid to have any conversation about about that. As the lone male Clinton supporter, I attempted several times to explore this divide with my male friends. What I encountered was an irrational anger and hatred and willingness to believe any and all far fetched conspiratorial fantasies about Clinton that could be imagined along with a total unwillingness actually to examine the evidence for such fantasies. When I once suggested that misogyny might be at work, I was met with an outpouring of anger that quickly extinguished all conversation. Most of those men will now reluctantly vote for Clinton; but they still believe every single lie that has been told about her.
71
My husband ran into the same problem. It's interesting. He was born in Iran, has five sisters, and is an unabashed liberal named Mohammad. (Also an atheist:)
The expectation on the part of the men he has been conversing with is that he would obviously agree with them. Decent men come from he four corners of the earth, sometimes from unexpected places because of their experiences and those of their family members. A man who must demean women to feel masculine never was.
The expectation on the part of the men he has been conversing with is that he would obviously agree with them. Decent men come from he four corners of the earth, sometimes from unexpected places because of their experiences and those of their family members. A man who must demean women to feel masculine never was.
1
Carl:
You say that even left-liberal men still believe every lie that has been told about Clinton.
But it is even more depressing that you and the wives apparently still haven't seen through the lies that Clinton has told you.
Feminists use the charge of misogyny like the Likud uses the smear of anti-Semitism -- to try to put their own actions above criticism.
You say that even left-liberal men still believe every lie that has been told about Clinton.
But it is even more depressing that you and the wives apparently still haven't seen through the lies that Clinton has told you.
Feminists use the charge of misogyny like the Likud uses the smear of anti-Semitism -- to try to put their own actions above criticism.
1
I honestly doubt they will vote for Clinton. Johnson at best, Trump at worst.
Losers. People who lack the social skills, physical features, personality, or character to be attractive to the opposite sex, and who are envious of those who are, behave in such a demeaning and misogynistic manner to compensate for their impotence.
Remember the 22 year old frustrated virgin who went on a shooting spree in CA a few years back? His thinking reflected an extreme conclusion to the sense of powerlessness and caveman behavior seen in the "Gamergate" horror in 2014.
Look at the Trump supporter who said in an interview (by The Daily Show) that half the women at Trump's rally wouldn't mind being grabbed by the p...y, and that he'd like to do the same, but couldn't.
Whatever happened to the value of competitiveness? Why do these people blame the (legal) immigrants for taking "our jobs" and for making it harder for them to get into college? Why do they demonize women for striving for equal pay for the same work and equal opportunities in life? Can't they compete on their own merits?
Losers. Ironically, most of Trump's supporters fall into the category he loves dumping all his competitors into. Though some, I assume, are good people.
Remember the 22 year old frustrated virgin who went on a shooting spree in CA a few years back? His thinking reflected an extreme conclusion to the sense of powerlessness and caveman behavior seen in the "Gamergate" horror in 2014.
Look at the Trump supporter who said in an interview (by The Daily Show) that half the women at Trump's rally wouldn't mind being grabbed by the p...y, and that he'd like to do the same, but couldn't.
Whatever happened to the value of competitiveness? Why do these people blame the (legal) immigrants for taking "our jobs" and for making it harder for them to get into college? Why do they demonize women for striving for equal pay for the same work and equal opportunities in life? Can't they compete on their own merits?
Losers. Ironically, most of Trump's supporters fall into the category he loves dumping all his competitors into. Though some, I assume, are good people.
16
Hey, Patrician. Your shaming of males who are "unattractive losers" and "frustrated virgins" is part of the problem!
@Sue: No. You're over-simplifying my argument.
My point was that there are many attributes that people find attractive: social skills (Conversational/intelligence), physical attributes (not necessarily all hereditary, e.g. almost everyone can buff up or lose weight), character (loyalty, honesty, integrity..), personality (sense of humor, adventure, optimism...)
One can work at developing (any one or more of these) traits that the opposite sex finds attractive - as opposed to doing nothing oneself and just blaming women.
But, I do acknowledge that there was one group I was shaming: it's the group of people who believe there was nothing wrong with what Trump said ("grab them by the p...y") and who would like to the same themselves.
My point was that there are many attributes that people find attractive: social skills (Conversational/intelligence), physical attributes (not necessarily all hereditary, e.g. almost everyone can buff up or lose weight), character (loyalty, honesty, integrity..), personality (sense of humor, adventure, optimism...)
One can work at developing (any one or more of these) traits that the opposite sex finds attractive - as opposed to doing nothing oneself and just blaming women.
But, I do acknowledge that there was one group I was shaming: it's the group of people who believe there was nothing wrong with what Trump said ("grab them by the p...y") and who would like to the same themselves.
We're going to find out if we're more racist than sexist. No one gives up status without a fight. We're seeing that played out with the backbone of Trump's support with diminished white men. We'll see a lot more about rape culture as we will about implicit racism. This was bound to happen. The idea of equality and real power are totally different. The 60's were about being more equal for minorities, for women. Today it's about the acceptance and consequence of these groups attaining real power and who that power threatens and how can that threat be minimized. If we don't bring these people into the fold, they will continue to seethe and that's not good for anyone
11
Misogyny is alive and well in this country and after the election will bloom no matter who wins, just as racism did after the 2008 elections with the election of Obama.
It will likely be fueled by the added frustration of 8 years of an administration that has done a minimal amount to rectify the same issues that we are now debating in this election including the future of Obama care.
They threw hundreds of billion's at the problem in 2008 because it was clearly a crisis but what is the crisis now other than the basic American malaise that brought us two pathetic candidates to choose from?
It will likely be fueled by the added frustration of 8 years of an administration that has done a minimal amount to rectify the same issues that we are now debating in this election including the future of Obama care.
They threw hundreds of billion's at the problem in 2008 because it was clearly a crisis but what is the crisis now other than the basic American malaise that brought us two pathetic candidates to choose from?
3
We have an obstructionist Congress, Republican members of which met the day of Obama's first inauguration and vowed to obstruct anything he tried to do. As his tenure progressed, they stuck by this pledge despite the benefit of his proposals to the country. The current refusal to block his Supreme Court nominee is one of the latest examples of this. Now they use the results of their own entrenchment in their campaign rants for this season. The Trump/Republican lies and perpetuation of the "birther" myth was all about delegitimizing his presidency.
For much of the electorate, Trumps predatory behavior towards women, financial ripoffs of laborer and small businesses people, and policy proposals has ripped the veneer off supply side economics, trickle down, and their bizarre hurdles for women to manage their own bodies and reproduction.
For much of the electorate, Trumps predatory behavior towards women, financial ripoffs of laborer and small businesses people, and policy proposals has ripped the veneer off supply side economics, trickle down, and their bizarre hurdles for women to manage their own bodies and reproduction.
I am also glad to hear the Southern Poverty Law Center is paying attention to this issue. (In some ways, it isn't the new economy that has left these white men behind, it's their wives, who have adjusted to the new service economy better than their husbands and earn more).
I was pleased to see Ms. Bellafante focusing on this, as it is something I don't think has been sufficiently explored in the campaign. One thing I have found interesting about Trump is his comments on his daughter Ivanka and how he would be interested in her if she weren't his daughter. Of course, if she weren't his daughter, she probably wouldn't be any more interested in him than any other "nice" accomplished young woman, which is what I suspect Trump ran into as a young man, where a lot of his misogyny comes from (that rejection), and how he ended up throwing himself at beauty queens, manicurists, and eastern european "models" and "actresses" looking for green cards.
I was pleased to see Ms. Bellafante focusing on this, as it is something I don't think has been sufficiently explored in the campaign. One thing I have found interesting about Trump is his comments on his daughter Ivanka and how he would be interested in her if she weren't his daughter. Of course, if she weren't his daughter, she probably wouldn't be any more interested in him than any other "nice" accomplished young woman, which is what I suspect Trump ran into as a young man, where a lot of his misogyny comes from (that rejection), and how he ended up throwing himself at beauty queens, manicurists, and eastern european "models" and "actresses" looking for green cards.
31
When President Obama ran and then took office, racism seemed to become more overt and a matter of public discussion. Now, with Hillary running and likely to win, the same is true of misogyny. Trump has further embraced the virulent bigotry and misogyny, and encouraged his supporters in their hatred. I only hope and pray that decades from now, we will see this as a turning point for public discussion and positive action -- rather than continued denial or worse yet, an all out "revolution" of hate. Our very civilization - our democracy and civility - is at stake, but not in the way Trump claims.
56
I'm not hopeful. When Nixon resigned the Republican Party could have made substantive efforts at reforming but instead they directed rage at democrats as if they were guilty instead. Pussygate is the result.
1
A victim is really a state of mind where the perpetrator has broken into security of mental wellness! Sexual politics is not my area of expertise but I dare say that Mrs. Clinton is a victim of her own doing by clinging to a proven predator. Our responsibility to our own mental wellness is our strength and flexibility in our response to her poor choice. I believe HRC is the vessel of deceit and corruption; therefore, she is worthy of our collective rejection!
1
Are you mad? Why even ask this question. The answer is so very obvious.
And just what is Trump a vessel of ?
1
What is with all this anti Hillary crap in response to an article that has nothing to do with her????? Oh, wait...my bad. I forgot about all the lurking paid Trump Trolls out there for a minute.
1
I just wonder why this shocking crime is not on the front page. I believe that there is a connection between the presidential campaign and this incident. Misogyny plays a part in the hatred of many for Hillary Clinton. I'm at a loss for words to express the depths of my utter dismay and disgust with Trump, his positions, and his campaign. I truly fear for our country and the ugly undercurrents in our society that his rhetoric has unleashed and encouraged. We will be dealing with the resurgence of these dark forces for many years to come.
14
As a woman who went to medical school and dealt with sexism and violent speech there, the distinction you draw between sweeping demographic trends / upper class advancement and violence in the here and now for individual women does not hold true in my life. My experience is that the actual advancement of women in spaces we had not been - professional schools, male professions, etc, creates triggers for men, and their covert misogyny becomes overt. I believe that that the aggression I experience from male strangers is not about me, but some displaced anger being vented on me. Yesterday, in fact, I was cursed out at a 4- way stop sign because I hesitated when it was my turn and it confused the male driver next to me. Would he really lash out at a fellow man that way? I doubt it. Too risky. I have had aggressive things said to me elevators and my car intentionally hit at drive up ATM because I was "taking too long". What man would do that to another man? Sheryl Sandberg's question "what if you weren't afraid" cannot be parsed from our everyday experiences dealing with men on the road in their trucks, on the street, or next to us on airplanes. Those fears and experiences co-mingle in all of us.
36
I am glad to hear that Southern Poverty Law Centers is paying attention to these misogynistic hate groups. I have donated money to them in the past and this makes me want to send them more money.
Don't forget the individual men who killed multiple women in Toronto and Los Angeles and elsewhere, just because they felt women had rejected them. There's no way to track those people. They're out there too...
I understand that young men have hormone issues, their testosterone levels are high, and they don't get any training in how to cope with that. Instead, they get into groups where they urge each other to go for it, grab those women's bodies etc. That's no excuse but it makes more sense than a 70 year old man who does that... Unless Trump takes testosterone, which he probably does, so now it actually does make sense. Hmm...
Don't forget the individual men who killed multiple women in Toronto and Los Angeles and elsewhere, just because they felt women had rejected them. There's no way to track those people. They're out there too...
I understand that young men have hormone issues, their testosterone levels are high, and they don't get any training in how to cope with that. Instead, they get into groups where they urge each other to go for it, grab those women's bodies etc. That's no excuse but it makes more sense than a 70 year old man who does that... Unless Trump takes testosterone, which he probably does, so now it actually does make sense. Hmm...
45
sfd etc Grabbing a woman because of lust is not misogyny; it's male entitlement. Setting women strangers on fire is misogyny.
Misogyny is enabled by patriarchy and the idea that women are second class citizens because god made man, not woman, in *his* image. The current mindset of the Republican Party not only accepts, but promotes the idea that government should be based on their interpretation of a religious book that precludes women from positions of leadership. Wherever patriarchy prevails there will be misogyny. That misogyny can exist without patriarchy, but patriarchy allows it to organize and flourish.
109
I think you have taken the bait of the Catholic Spring and turned your back on our constitution! Sad!
Another reason to be an Atheist
I've always found it useful to view misogyny, or bias against women, as an aberrant form of male dominance.
Male dominance, I suggest, is an instinct – an age-old, inherited instinct that helped ragtag bands of early humans survive in a hostile world. That is hard to prove, but it is plausible, and would explain why male dominance is so prevalent and hard to erase.
Male dominance is an issue of both power and identity for men. When thwarted, it can lead to groping and other inappropriate behavior, or in extremes, to violence by troubled indivduals.
No one is exempt from this instinctual male claim on power, including liberals, who like to think of themselves as morally virtuous.
The media bias against Hillary is a prominent example. Yes, there has been media bias against male presidential candiates in the past, but none of them has been subject to the dogged, decades-long hostility that she has experienced.
I do sense that some young men, today, have become more open and sensitive to this issue. That is good news. Only if we recognize male dominance as a ancient instinct, can we begin to address sexism, misogyny, and violence toward women.
Male dominance, I suggest, is an instinct – an age-old, inherited instinct that helped ragtag bands of early humans survive in a hostile world. That is hard to prove, but it is plausible, and would explain why male dominance is so prevalent and hard to erase.
Male dominance is an issue of both power and identity for men. When thwarted, it can lead to groping and other inappropriate behavior, or in extremes, to violence by troubled indivduals.
No one is exempt from this instinctual male claim on power, including liberals, who like to think of themselves as morally virtuous.
The media bias against Hillary is a prominent example. Yes, there has been media bias against male presidential candiates in the past, but none of them has been subject to the dogged, decades-long hostility that she has experienced.
I do sense that some young men, today, have become more open and sensitive to this issue. That is good news. Only if we recognize male dominance as a ancient instinct, can we begin to address sexism, misogyny, and violence toward women.
59
You men do it to to each other, too, and that is a large part of the problem, imo..
The whole toxic masculinity vs healthy masculinity. If stronger men pick on those they see as weaker, then some men feel the need to be more aggressive to keep the tougher guys off, not to show fear or feelings and then they show all sorts of aggression to women that maybe might not occur of they felt more comfortable in their own skins. Gay bashing is a form of this same sickness, fear, disrespect, need to dominate.
Men need fixing if we are to have any sort future that is less grim than where we are now. For the girls that deserve to grow up unharmed and undiminished or the boys to know love and support and without being stunted emotionally so he doesn't have to do that to be a man.
I have sympathy for the men, and urge you to heal for your sake and in self interest of all females. At the same time, as a female I am too exhausted to be enraged, because all the good men I know are shocked shocked and appalled and I know they are, but all the women I know are saying.. duh, what brick fell on your head? Just noticing now? We've been telling this story for years.
The whole toxic masculinity vs healthy masculinity. If stronger men pick on those they see as weaker, then some men feel the need to be more aggressive to keep the tougher guys off, not to show fear or feelings and then they show all sorts of aggression to women that maybe might not occur of they felt more comfortable in their own skins. Gay bashing is a form of this same sickness, fear, disrespect, need to dominate.
Men need fixing if we are to have any sort future that is less grim than where we are now. For the girls that deserve to grow up unharmed and undiminished or the boys to know love and support and without being stunted emotionally so he doesn't have to do that to be a man.
I have sympathy for the men, and urge you to heal for your sake and in self interest of all females. At the same time, as a female I am too exhausted to be enraged, because all the good men I know are shocked shocked and appalled and I know they are, but all the women I know are saying.. duh, what brick fell on your head? Just noticing now? We've been telling this story for years.
12
Plenty to be enraged about! Frightened serves the misogynist's agenda.
Having experienced rape at age 18, I first retreated into fright and mistrust until I realized that was the rapist's goal. To exert a man's power. Then I got angry. Very angry. I vowed that I would push back against the fear, the mistrust, the self-doubt. That I would not allow him to rob me of neither my humanity nor my womanhood.
Now at 60 years old, a physician who has dealt the best I can with the misogynist slings and arrows of a professional woman's life, who tries to help children and adolescents deal with racism, classism, misogyny, and bigotry directed at gender choice (and why don't we have a succinct word for that type of bias?) or they bodies they are born into. I cannot express the depth of my rage and dismay at Trump and all his enablers, the entrenched male establishment who thinks nothing of piling on additional laws restricting the right of a woman to own her own body - all to aid their grasp (or grope) of power.
Throw the bums out. They're toast.
Having experienced rape at age 18, I first retreated into fright and mistrust until I realized that was the rapist's goal. To exert a man's power. Then I got angry. Very angry. I vowed that I would push back against the fear, the mistrust, the self-doubt. That I would not allow him to rob me of neither my humanity nor my womanhood.
Now at 60 years old, a physician who has dealt the best I can with the misogynist slings and arrows of a professional woman's life, who tries to help children and adolescents deal with racism, classism, misogyny, and bigotry directed at gender choice (and why don't we have a succinct word for that type of bias?) or they bodies they are born into. I cannot express the depth of my rage and dismay at Trump and all his enablers, the entrenched male establishment who thinks nothing of piling on additional laws restricting the right of a woman to own her own body - all to aid their grasp (or grope) of power.
Throw the bums out. They're toast.
338
I guess I'd forgotten the number of times I've been harassed and even assaulted by men of all ages in my life. It's something you just kind of put behind you - you're expected to put behind you - I guess. But here I am a grown-up woman with a father, brothers, husband and sons. Some right wing, some left. None of them know of these incidences, but they sure all know better than to claim me as their reason to protest violence against women. So if anything they've learned over the past week to speak for themselves and common decency. But I have to say this week has brought up many unhappy memories. How will I know when the time is right to tell my sons? Do I have to?
112
Point them to this column. It's up to you if you want to reveal your identity. Not everyone can handle private stuff. In my own life, which has had sexually demeaning situations that I put myself in, I have shared this with my daughter but not my son. He may never be able to understand.
6
YES! Tell them. It will make then even better men. They will model the behavior that will help keep other women safe.
2
@Av: Speaking as a woman, I'd say you should tell them. Of course you don't "have" to tell them - but you have important personal experience that *ought* to be meaningful to the men in your life, especially your sons.
I imagine that in raising your children, you have tried to give your sons all the information you feel they need to navigate the world. Why would your own experiences not be part of that information?
I imagine that in raising your children, you have tried to give your sons all the information you feel they need to navigate the world. Why would your own experiences not be part of that information?
3
The open, social framing of this issue is helpful.
Incidents of men's violence are usually aimed at individuals. Perpetrators' and targets' silence is common and traditional. Targets often believe they were somehow complicit in causing the incidents. They're ashamed, confused, have only narrow contexts for the incidents, and are isolated from support.
To become aware that violence is more widespread than first believed, that men socialize and support each other based on their violent preferences, removes blame and isolation from victims.
Incidents of men's violence are usually aimed at individuals. Perpetrators' and targets' silence is common and traditional. Targets often believe they were somehow complicit in causing the incidents. They're ashamed, confused, have only narrow contexts for the incidents, and are isolated from support.
To become aware that violence is more widespread than first believed, that men socialize and support each other based on their violent preferences, removes blame and isolation from victims.
79
Misogyny runs rampant among Democratic men, more so than among Republican men. How soon everyone forgets the misogyny of the DNC in 2008 when they tossed Hillary Clinton under the bus, favoring an unknown black man from Chicago to be their preferred candidate for President.
19
Fortunately Barack Obama turned out to be a great president. Hillary Clinton will win this time and also be a great president. How this equals misogyny at the DNC is beyond me. OF course with Drumpf you not only get misogyny, but racism, xenophobia, homophobia, antisemitism, Islamophobia, and given 5 minutes I am sure we could easily find some more phobias and isms.
218
Suffrage for black men was deemed more urgent than for all women and the DNC played no role in that at all.
14
Trump runners have difficulty parsing tha Obama appointed Hillary as his SOS, got reelected, never had a sex scandal, and has stayed highroad while the GOP descended into the muck.
4
That there are scant few comments on this topic speaks volumes!! Wake up America!!!
121
On the other hand - Donald Trump has ensured it will not go away by having challenged the 18,500 or so women he has personally abused, threatened or demeaned these past 40 years to come out and bear witness against him. That is attracting center stage and is emblematic of all the issues being discussed.
6
I don’t think any distinct group of people would want to be characterized by the lowest among them and would question the relevance of a minority of criminals, deviants, or just boors to the majority.
9
When Ed writes that only "the lowest" among men behave in this way, perhaps he is unaware of just how prevalent the sexual harassment of women is. My own experience taught me to be wary of men of all sorts—teachers, doctors, bosses and, of course, men on the street and particularly in the subway. The point is that a woman can never let down her guard, and this is no way to live.
211
Ed, no one is saying you are among the boors, deviants and criminals you mention.
However, there is no woman alive who's life had nit been touched by or all of them.
Remember, it wasn't so long ago, just months - #notallmen #yesallwomen
The misogyny is so deep we that can't even speak of the brutality we all experience with our having to soothe a man whose feelings are hurt by us telling our most common shared experience.
However, there is no woman alive who's life had nit been touched by or all of them.
Remember, it wasn't so long ago, just months - #notallmen #yesallwomen
The misogyny is so deep we that can't even speak of the brutality we all experience with our having to soothe a man whose feelings are hurt by us telling our most common shared experience.
196
I've even stepped out of an elevator if I was going to be alone in it with a man who I felt uneasy about. I've told my husband that men in nature are predators and women are prey. It permeates everything we do even if we chose to live boldly. There is always a tiny undercurrent of fear merely being born female.
45