"The use of “our,” besides conveying ownership...."
Sorry, Claire, I don't buy it in this context. Our house, our car, our book...yes, that states ownership of objects.
Our Father? Our mother? Our sister? Our pastor? Our doctor? Our Realtor? No, there is no ownership when "Our" is used with people. Rather, it states a relationship. The same goes for "My".
Sorry, Claire, I don't buy it in this context. Our house, our car, our book...yes, that states ownership of objects.
Our Father? Our mother? Our sister? Our pastor? Our doctor? Our Realtor? No, there is no ownership when "Our" is used with people. Rather, it states a relationship. The same goes for "My".
4
Cut the Senators some slack. They don't know what they don't know. Who knew Trump was coming down the pipe. Trump is a one man wrecking crew and no one in the Republican party knows what to do. For that matter does ANYONE in the world have any clue as to what is really happening? Does the Donald even know?
1
The words husband and wife are exclusively possessive subjects. It is not possible to be either except as possessed by the other. Mutual ownership is the nature of the relationship. It's a linguistic limitation, like the lack of a third person pronoun of indefinite gender.
3
My friend is a former NYPD detective who handled rape cases and he says Trump fits the profile of a classic sexual predator.
16
By implying only men can have wives, this author completely erases LGTBQ relationships. Before slamming the senators for their "internalized misogyny", please shine a light on your own homophobia. That this article was published in an otherwise inclusive newspaper is very problematic.
1
"I Will Not Remain Quiet"
I sit quietly alone
Writing chapter and poem
Of this election that steals every breath
And while many have liked
Too, the hatred has spiked
Of the messages I get wishing me death
I will not remain quiet
During this electoral riot
With the state of our union at stake
In this marketplace of ideas
I only have so many years
To add my voice to this important give and take
I sit quietly alone
Writing chapter and poem
Of this election that steals every breath
And while many have liked
Too, the hatred has spiked
Of the messages I get wishing me death
I will not remain quiet
During this electoral riot
With the state of our union at stake
In this marketplace of ideas
I only have so many years
To add my voice to this important give and take
8
What does it take for the Republican Party to decide to redeem itself by dumping Trump completely and stating that he is not part of the party and does not reflect the party? Would they have backed Hitler to the bitter end? This campaign leaves not just a bitter taste in the mouth but the feeling that you need a hazmat unit to clean up the slime. Going to watch kitty cat videos to give my soul a rest.
22
Some possibilities for this GOP language:
1) There are far more women politicians who are Democrats in the House and Senate than there are Republicans. More accustomed to equality.
2) Paternalism. The same is true when male Republican politicians think they have the right to dictate the healthcare for every woman in America.
3) Protective urges. Parents will defend their children. Anyone will defend their family. This is not just male.
4) Trying to put themselves in the place of women by naming women close to them. This could be sincere if awkward.
5) Discomfort in bluntly identifying these actions as sexual assault, sexual predation, and demeaning or degrading.
6) Rape culture. (Republican politician comments on "legal rape" involving violence as opposed to other types of rape due to drugs, lack of consciousness, etc.)
1) There are far more women politicians who are Democrats in the House and Senate than there are Republicans. More accustomed to equality.
2) Paternalism. The same is true when male Republican politicians think they have the right to dictate the healthcare for every woman in America.
3) Protective urges. Parents will defend their children. Anyone will defend their family. This is not just male.
4) Trying to put themselves in the place of women by naming women close to them. This could be sincere if awkward.
5) Discomfort in bluntly identifying these actions as sexual assault, sexual predation, and demeaning or degrading.
6) Rape culture. (Republican politician comments on "legal rape" involving violence as opposed to other types of rape due to drugs, lack of consciousness, etc.)
8
I had similar feelings---the men who condemned Trump for attacking women mostly still referred to women in very outdated terms--as somehow inferior physical objects that needed to be protected. Respect as equals? On the issue of familial relationships, I would hope that what men were saying was that their relationships with women had opened their minds to the importance of women as individuals in their own right, and not that only women that were possessed by them or other men were worthy of treating well...we can hope
9
This may also be related to the fact that some men feel that THEY are being insulted when someone is disrespectful towards "their" women. I recall an evening walk through the park with a boyfriend. A group of men on a bench made lewd comments about my body. My boyfriend became agitated and said "that was so disrespectful to me". As in - to HIM. I challenged him on this, it seemed out of character. My boyfriend said that some men deliberately try to insult other men by commenting on 'their' women.
9
It's all about them....
8
Trump and Bill Clinton cancel each other out on the sexual issue. More important, what the Clintons did while she was SOS in collaboration with the family foundation: selling off US uranium to Russia should still be tops in the news, especially with Democrats blaming Russia and the president talking about sanctions for unproven theory.
1
I'm sorry, but this line of attack against Trump (his sexual history and disgusting remarks) only bring me back to Bill Clinton. I don't think this is the best way for the Democrats to fight. Apparently it's the only way.
2
Whobis attacking Trump? He's the offender, not those who are holding him responsible for his words and deeds. Bill Clinton is not running for president. Please compare Donald Trump to Hillary, that's Hillary, Clinton. She had not bragged about committing sexual assault.
12
The old "boys will be boys" concept is alive and well in the republican party and their supporters. Unless, of course, you're a democrat or independent man - then you're a lech.
Attention boys of all ages - Women of America say NO MORE. Women will no longer be considered your "chattel". Women will no longer be silent. Women will speak out and women will do it now before the self-righteous, white, male supposedly "christian" men (and women) try to talibanize them and shut them up.
First step - Elect Ms. Hillary Rodham Clinton to be the first female President of the United States.
Second step - Elect only socially conscious democrats and independents for every office in the land and vote for women first when they are qualified.
Third step - Pass the Equal Rights Amendment to our United States Constitution that spells out for the neanderthals that "No law shall be passed in America that discriminates based on gender."
Fourth step - Live fully and freely in an inclusive society and help bring civility, social/economic justice, wealth equality and relative peace back to America.
THAT is a vision worth having.
Attention boys of all ages - Women of America say NO MORE. Women will no longer be considered your "chattel". Women will no longer be silent. Women will speak out and women will do it now before the self-righteous, white, male supposedly "christian" men (and women) try to talibanize them and shut them up.
First step - Elect Ms. Hillary Rodham Clinton to be the first female President of the United States.
Second step - Elect only socially conscious democrats and independents for every office in the land and vote for women first when they are qualified.
Third step - Pass the Equal Rights Amendment to our United States Constitution that spells out for the neanderthals that "No law shall be passed in America that discriminates based on gender."
Fourth step - Live fully and freely in an inclusive society and help bring civility, social/economic justice, wealth equality and relative peace back to America.
THAT is a vision worth having.
22
Those who point out that they are rebuking Trump because they have a daughter or two imply that they would have been fine with the comments if they only had sons.
27
As men we have all engaged in locker room talk - often in graphic, detailed, and, yes, vulgar ways. And I have done my share in various groups ranging from PhD-level professionals to blue-collar professionals describing what someone has done and/or would like to do with women to whom they are attracted. That said, however, I can't recall anyone ever bragging about grabbing "p***" in the way Trump has; locker room talk is just that - part fantasy, part truth, part banter, part of what makes men, well, men, but assaulting or grabbing is just vile and criminal. I am astonished that his ardent supporters fail to see what is so obvious - well, let me rephrase that, I am not astonished. Nothing about right-wing nutters surprises me . . .
20
Oh we poor men. Worrying about how our "wives and daughters" are offended by the most odious rants of Donald Trump. Why don't guys include themselves in this outrage?
As a man in his seventies I have come across quite a few men like Trump throughout my life. From real locker room in high school (I also attended a private military college prep school) through my senior years, though a lot less, I have heard guys describe women in the most gross way. When that occurs, if I think the man in question will not become violent, I will question why they are saying such horrible things. Is that what they think of women, I ask? Sometimes, by calling their bluff, I will get a more subdued response. They were just engaging in "locker room talk" thinking I'd be impressed. When I tell them I'm not, they return to normal. In fact some seemed relieved they don't have to act the pig.
Don't get me wrong, I'm no saint, but I've never understood men who claim to "love" women, men like Trump, who then talk of them in the most degrading ways. Trump like all men who behave like this should be rejected by other men, and not do what Billy Bush did. Being rich and famous should give no man carte blanche to treat women this way.
DD
Manhattan
As a man in his seventies I have come across quite a few men like Trump throughout my life. From real locker room in high school (I also attended a private military college prep school) through my senior years, though a lot less, I have heard guys describe women in the most gross way. When that occurs, if I think the man in question will not become violent, I will question why they are saying such horrible things. Is that what they think of women, I ask? Sometimes, by calling their bluff, I will get a more subdued response. They were just engaging in "locker room talk" thinking I'd be impressed. When I tell them I'm not, they return to normal. In fact some seemed relieved they don't have to act the pig.
Don't get me wrong, I'm no saint, but I've never understood men who claim to "love" women, men like Trump, who then talk of them in the most degrading ways. Trump like all men who behave like this should be rejected by other men, and not do what Billy Bush did. Being rich and famous should give no man carte blanche to treat women this way.
DD
Manhattan
29
I believe that when men invoke the women in their lives in condemning Trump's remarks, they think it emphasizes their condemnation to show "this hits close to home." The problem is that their reaction should be the same even if it hits nowhere close to home.
27
Women want equal rights not special rights. We are tired of having to work twice as hard just to be seen as equal to a man. We don't need men to protect us or be indignant on our behalf, we have a voice of our own. We are not objects and are tired of always being on guard against unwanted, inappropriate attention.
We need to take a hard look at our values as a nation. We also need to take an honest look at our personal biases. Trump has brought all that is ugly about our country into the open. He has attacked women, minorities, people with disabilities and anyone else he sees as less than. But the sad thing is, we all know someone in our lives who has the same beliefs about those they see as other or less than.
As painful as this election and Trumps campaign has been, we have an opportunity to address the issues that he has brought to the surface. President Carter made the observation that after the civil rights movement we dusted off our hands and said the work is done. Clearly we have a ways to go in our quest to be a more perfect union. We owe it to future generations to get busy so another Trump doesn't get this close to the presidency.
We need to take a hard look at our values as a nation. We also need to take an honest look at our personal biases. Trump has brought all that is ugly about our country into the open. He has attacked women, minorities, people with disabilities and anyone else he sees as less than. But the sad thing is, we all know someone in our lives who has the same beliefs about those they see as other or less than.
As painful as this election and Trumps campaign has been, we have an opportunity to address the issues that he has brought to the surface. President Carter made the observation that after the civil rights movement we dusted off our hands and said the work is done. Clearly we have a ways to go in our quest to be a more perfect union. We owe it to future generations to get busy so another Trump doesn't get this close to the presidency.
16
All the boys with whom I grew up, with one exception that springs to mind, were far closer to and more strongly influenced by our mothers than we were by our fathers.
Most of us had fathers who had abandoned us and our mothers, or were still there in body (and salaries) but essentially absent in mind and spirit.
We all grew up, therefore, influenced far more by our mothers than by our fathers.
The same is true of the single-mother families in the projects, where angry young African American and Mexican American boys are usually reared by their young mothers and maternal grandmothers.
We will make no progress here until we recognise and acknowledge that women-loving and women-hating men are mostly raised that way not by their fathers but by their mothers.
Most of us had fathers who had abandoned us and our mothers, or were still there in body (and salaries) but essentially absent in mind and spirit.
We all grew up, therefore, influenced far more by our mothers than by our fathers.
The same is true of the single-mother families in the projects, where angry young African American and Mexican American boys are usually reared by their young mothers and maternal grandmothers.
We will make no progress here until we recognise and acknowledge that women-loving and women-hating men are mostly raised that way not by their fathers but by their mothers.
5
Wow. Did you really just say that? I thought I'd seen it all but apparently not.
5
Fascinating analysis - pray tell what evidence do you have to support such a broad assertion or it is just your common-sense intuitive understanding. If it's the latter, then it's just pop-psychology (i.e. nonsense). If it's the former I trust it is based on peer-reviewed scientific research . . .
8
You've got some explaining to do, dude. What does that last sentence mean?
2
It is estimated that roughly 30% to 60% of all married individuals (in the United States) will engage in infidelity at some point during their marriage. And these numbers are probably on the conservative side, if you consider that close to half of all marriages end in divorce. About 35 percent of couples stay together after infidelity. More than 1 in 20 married Americans has taken three or more trips to the altar. The Clintons are an American story.
One in three-to-four girls, and one in five-to-seven boys are sexually abused before they turn 18, an overwhelming incidence of which happens within the family.
Trump on “The View” “I don’t think Ivanka would do that [pose for nude photographs] inside the magazine,” Trump says, speaking for his daughter. “Although she does have a very nice figure. I’ve said that if Ivanka weren’t my daughter, perhaps, I would be dating her.”
“He told Rolling Stone that if he weren’t happily married and his daughter’s father, he’d — well, he didn’t finish the thought, but you can guess what he meant.".
Overt vs Covert
Overt incest is presently defined as obviously sexual in nature. There’s no doubt that something sexual is going on, at least for the abuser anyway. It may or may not, include full blown intercourse. On the other hand, Covert incest is subtle, and may include things like sexual jokes, showing photos or paintings of nudes to a child, or touching the child in a way as to make appear “accidental”. Trump, the other American Story
One in three-to-four girls, and one in five-to-seven boys are sexually abused before they turn 18, an overwhelming incidence of which happens within the family.
Trump on “The View” “I don’t think Ivanka would do that [pose for nude photographs] inside the magazine,” Trump says, speaking for his daughter. “Although she does have a very nice figure. I’ve said that if Ivanka weren’t my daughter, perhaps, I would be dating her.”
“He told Rolling Stone that if he weren’t happily married and his daughter’s father, he’d — well, he didn’t finish the thought, but you can guess what he meant.".
Overt vs Covert
Overt incest is presently defined as obviously sexual in nature. There’s no doubt that something sexual is going on, at least for the abuser anyway. It may or may not, include full blown intercourse. On the other hand, Covert incest is subtle, and may include things like sexual jokes, showing photos or paintings of nudes to a child, or touching the child in a way as to make appear “accidental”. Trump, the other American Story
11
There are too many people voting republican because their daddy or grandfather did. It is like the scene out of Forest Gump where Lt. Dan says “there has been a member of my family that has died in every American war” but with the republican voters it would be “members of my family have voted republican in every American presidential season”. Interestingly enough, the results of both Lt. Dan’s family and the family members who vote republican, both pretty much end with the same results. The cult of “family” passing down through the years the dysfunction all held up proudly as if it was an honor to do so. Women and children being forced to vote republican because their dominating husband or father forced them to do so. Male driven religions, Adams rib, reducing women and children to be less than whatever man has been assigned to govern them. Meanwhile what the GOP stands for is against the very needs of those women and children and in doing so is actually against any healthy man’s family.
Liberals speak for the weak and oppressed; want change and justice, even at risk of chaos.
Conservatives speak for institutions and traditions; want order even at the cost to those at the bottom.
[Psychologist Jonathan Haidt studies the five moral values that form the basis of our political choices, whether we're left, right, or center]
Liberals speak for the weak and oppressed; want change and justice, even at risk of chaos.
Conservatives speak for institutions and traditions; want order even at the cost to those at the bottom.
[Psychologist Jonathan Haidt studies the five moral values that form the basis of our political choices, whether we're left, right, or center]
12
How can it be a sexual assault if Trump said: “And when you're a star,
they let you do it” ?
they let you do it” ?
2
No woman lets herself be grabbed by the genitals, especially in a public setting. Trump saying that women let him do it is the equivalent of men saying "she asked for it."
7
Just because he said "...they let you do it" doesn't mean that they did! It is shocking when some male does a bump and grind on your back when you're making coffee, grabs your breast for quick feel - and then suggests you should be flattered that he thinks you are pretty. When it is a male in power it's difficult to do anything about it.
11
I've thought the same thing. Really, this is the aspect of Trump that is most commonly shared among men of a certain age. Trump's other failings are much more dangerous and particular to his lack of education, lack of intelligence and lack of maturity.
1
Men must teach their sons, both in words and action, that women are equal human beings, and can take care of themselves. Kids at every age pick up on your behavior and words, and will follow suit whichever way you take them.
My son's mother has enormous talent, an extremely strong work ethic, a rock-solid sense of right and wrong, and a charming sense of humor.
That she is a woman is beside the point when it comes to appreciating her gifts - looking at what she does in the world, the actual work she produces, one would not be able to identify her gender.
And that is the point, whether she is a "he" or a "she" it is her personality characteristics, her talents, and her hard work that count when considering her contribution to society...her personhood, quite apart from sexuality.
If she were a man, neither she nor her work would be questioned, nor would she be subject to an automatic sexualized response...so it is important that my son see me treating her with the very same appreciation and respect that I would give a man for the same output...and without any sexually-oriented behavior or verbiage...for who she is and what she adds to the world go far beyond a nice evening of sex.
My son's mother has enormous talent, an extremely strong work ethic, a rock-solid sense of right and wrong, and a charming sense of humor.
That she is a woman is beside the point when it comes to appreciating her gifts - looking at what she does in the world, the actual work she produces, one would not be able to identify her gender.
And that is the point, whether she is a "he" or a "she" it is her personality characteristics, her talents, and her hard work that count when considering her contribution to society...her personhood, quite apart from sexuality.
If she were a man, neither she nor her work would be questioned, nor would she be subject to an automatic sexualized response...so it is important that my son see me treating her with the very same appreciation and respect that I would give a man for the same output...and without any sexually-oriented behavior or verbiage...for who she is and what she adds to the world go far beyond a nice evening of sex.
21
It isn't about Trump's statement on tape, which is vile.
It is about Trump himself. He even lied about the vile statement when asked during the second debate.
No there will be many women coming forward stating that he acted exactly as he described. Unwanted touching, forcing himself on women, committing sexual assault, and lying about all of it.
He just keeps proving that he is UNFIT and UNQUALIFIED to hold ANY office of public trust.
How so many TrumpBots can still think of voting for this walking slimeball just amazes me. Even students at Liberty University have finally come to their senses and disavowed him as morally unfit.
It is about Trump himself. He even lied about the vile statement when asked during the second debate.
No there will be many women coming forward stating that he acted exactly as he described. Unwanted touching, forcing himself on women, committing sexual assault, and lying about all of it.
He just keeps proving that he is UNFIT and UNQUALIFIED to hold ANY office of public trust.
How so many TrumpBots can still think of voting for this walking slimeball just amazes me. Even students at Liberty University have finally come to their senses and disavowed him as morally unfit.
20
Public servants are responsibility to their entire constituency, not just those who are near and dear to them. Couching their criticism in terms of "wives and daughters" is abdicating that responsibility.
M Trump deserves to be "shopping for a new set of teeth" because of his behavior towards ALL women - and all Muslims, and all disabled persons, all Hispanics, etc., etc., etc. That includes the millions unknown to most of the elected officials who have "finally" had enough. Mr. Trump wants to be President of the entire US population, not just those citizens personally known to our representatives
Bad behavior is bad behavior - no matter who it is directed at.
M Trump deserves to be "shopping for a new set of teeth" because of his behavior towards ALL women - and all Muslims, and all disabled persons, all Hispanics, etc., etc., etc. That includes the millions unknown to most of the elected officials who have "finally" had enough. Mr. Trump wants to be President of the entire US population, not just those citizens personally known to our representatives
Bad behavior is bad behavior - no matter who it is directed at.
12
The topic is how Trump treats women, some men respond while referencing the women they love as an example and thus by extension argue that his treatment is inappropriate to all: I know how I would feel is someone did that to the my daughter, and so I apply that to all daughters.
Every woman has a father ...
And the author of this piece wants to highlight the logic as sexist!
Look for balance please.
If Trump had been gay, and talked of treating young men this way, would you have criticized women for thinking of their sons, for using the possessive pronoun?
Every woman has a father ...
And the author of this piece wants to highlight the logic as sexist!
Look for balance please.
If Trump had been gay, and talked of treating young men this way, would you have criticized women for thinking of their sons, for using the possessive pronoun?
3
The GOP reaction solidifies the point that they view women as second class citizens.
22
In the GOP convention, Trump said, "I am your voice". After the Trump videos, I am waiting for people to defend that.
8
Trump supporters now want to appeal a woman's right to vote. Misogyny is rampant. The curtain is pulled back - the Emperor has no clothes.
13
Do women really want the "Father Knows Best", "Leave it to Beaver", 1940's 1950's back...really? These old men that are attempting to control women and push them back into specifically male servitude...the good thing is that they are dying at a phenomenal rate. The ultra-right religious, that is what they want.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHV04eSGzAA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHV04eSGzAA
6
Ridiculous. How should one refer to a female human being with the same parents except as "my sister" or to the female parent they "share" as "my mother" (or for that matter "our mother")? Is ownership implied?
And if certain guys identify with the plight of women today (or feel it with greatest emotion) by thinking of an experience in terms of people they love ("their" niece, daughter-in-law, grandmother), does that imply they perceive these women only in relation to themselves?
And if certain guys identify with the plight of women today (or feel it with greatest emotion) by thinking of an experience in terms of people they love ("their" niece, daughter-in-law, grandmother), does that imply they perceive these women only in relation to themselves?
5
The point is that you should feel empathy for other people because they are people, not simply because they are related or connected to you in some way.
The point isn't that you must not refer to the female human being with the same parents as you as 'your sister', it's that you you're not supposed to frame the problem (disrespect toward women) as a problem *because you have a sister.* Doing so predicates your offense on the fact that the offended person has a relationship TO YOU.
"And if certain guys identify with the plight of women today (or feel it with greatest emotion) by thinking of an experience in terms of people they love ("their" niece, daughter-in-law, grandmother), does that imply they perceive these women only in relation to themselves?"
Yes. It's not *just* that they're thinking of the experience in relationship to themselves, the data here shows that these types of men (generally) ONLY think of these women in relation to themselves. That is explained in the article.
It's very simple. I really don't understand why men feel entitled to run the world when they can't even grasp simple concepts like this or read articles.
The point isn't that you must not refer to the female human being with the same parents as you as 'your sister', it's that you you're not supposed to frame the problem (disrespect toward women) as a problem *because you have a sister.* Doing so predicates your offense on the fact that the offended person has a relationship TO YOU.
"And if certain guys identify with the plight of women today (or feel it with greatest emotion) by thinking of an experience in terms of people they love ("their" niece, daughter-in-law, grandmother), does that imply they perceive these women only in relation to themselves?"
Yes. It's not *just* that they're thinking of the experience in relationship to themselves, the data here shows that these types of men (generally) ONLY think of these women in relation to themselves. That is explained in the article.
It's very simple. I really don't understand why men feel entitled to run the world when they can't even grasp simple concepts like this or read articles.
23
It implies that the only way they can empathize with anyone being demeaned or treated unfairly is if they have a personal relationship with them.
15
They're trying to humanize us! Go figure.
1
Thank you for quoting Robin Lakoff, a brilliant analyzer of language. I am struck by the sanctimonious hypocrisy of the Republican Senators, who speak of their female family members in terms of chattel to be protected. If they really valued the women in their families, in the country, and in the world, they would endorse reproductive health, daycare, equal pay, and Planned Parenthood, for starters. That none of them does says it all.
57
Since the GOP has made enemies of so many women, their tactic now is to cull a certain percentage of women from the herd...republican women.
Overall, the data suggests that there may be an intriguing gender divide when it comes to the motivations of Republican voters, with results showing men to be more motivated by economic reasons and women drawn to conservative politics for more religious and social reasons. Other interesting gender gaps: Men are nearly twice as likely as women to identify themselves as “Tea Party”; 73 percent of Republican men refuse to accept that climate change is real, compared with 57 percent of Republican women; and Republican men are actually more likely than Republican women to accept evolutionary theory, with 43 percent of men versus 30 percent of women expressing a belief in evolution. Since climate change denialism is more tied up in anti-environmentalist sentiment and evolution denialism is primarily about religion, this divide makes perfect sense.
In the end for the republicans, it sorts out like this. It is all about money and religion. That translates into the top 1% and the extreme right religion. It is easy to the so called debate within that structure..
Overall, the data suggests that there may be an intriguing gender divide when it comes to the motivations of Republican voters, with results showing men to be more motivated by economic reasons and women drawn to conservative politics for more religious and social reasons. Other interesting gender gaps: Men are nearly twice as likely as women to identify themselves as “Tea Party”; 73 percent of Republican men refuse to accept that climate change is real, compared with 57 percent of Republican women; and Republican men are actually more likely than Republican women to accept evolutionary theory, with 43 percent of men versus 30 percent of women expressing a belief in evolution. Since climate change denialism is more tied up in anti-environmentalist sentiment and evolution denialism is primarily about religion, this divide makes perfect sense.
In the end for the republicans, it sorts out like this. It is all about money and religion. That translates into the top 1% and the extreme right religion. It is easy to the so called debate within that structure..
10
Now why would certain Republicans on one hand scorn Trump for acting out his various evils and yet still support his nomination? What would they have to gain?
It is pretty much accepted that Trump in office would create an economic and global catastrophe. Big money would lose big, in some cases everything. But, unless big money has control of this country which it does via the bought and paid for Republican Party, big money would be certain to lose certain amounts of money if the Democrats come into control of the US government. Also, having control of the presidency would have a trickle down affect for other key positions in our government, such as the Supreme Court.
So, first of all, it is imperative that the Republicans acquire and maintain control of the US government. Since the only real chance of doing that is to support Trump…so be it. Act all disgusted with Trump but underneath take actions that would continue to put Trump into office. But to leave Trump in office will lead to the inevitable collapse of the known world. So Trump would have to go away…somehow! With Trump on a permanent hiatus, that would then leave the next in line for the presidency and of course that would be whoever is in the Vice President slot…Pence. President Pence. Pence has already shown his support for Koch like government.
Trump would need to take the presidency but go on vacation before he had made any decisions on who to put into those support offices…like SCOTUS.
NO TRUMP
It is pretty much accepted that Trump in office would create an economic and global catastrophe. Big money would lose big, in some cases everything. But, unless big money has control of this country which it does via the bought and paid for Republican Party, big money would be certain to lose certain amounts of money if the Democrats come into control of the US government. Also, having control of the presidency would have a trickle down affect for other key positions in our government, such as the Supreme Court.
So, first of all, it is imperative that the Republicans acquire and maintain control of the US government. Since the only real chance of doing that is to support Trump…so be it. Act all disgusted with Trump but underneath take actions that would continue to put Trump into office. But to leave Trump in office will lead to the inevitable collapse of the known world. So Trump would have to go away…somehow! With Trump on a permanent hiatus, that would then leave the next in line for the presidency and of course that would be whoever is in the Vice President slot…Pence. President Pence. Pence has already shown his support for Koch like government.
Trump would need to take the presidency but go on vacation before he had made any decisions on who to put into those support offices…like SCOTUS.
NO TRUMP
6
What I think according to the reactions of most republican politicians, is that women deserve respect on the base of the affection and duties they do perform to men, husbands, sons, etc. It doesn't occur to them that women deserve respect for what they are : human beings. Why? Because those men view respect in other terms. It comes not from the essence of a being - Under the principle that each human deserves respect - no. Their respect is based on the fear of potential threat that someone can display to others, by physiqcal violence or money power. This way of thinking comes from the patriarchal bias which value fear over love, fight for survival over life enjoyment, masculine external energy (physical) over feminine inner energy(emotional). This doesn't make anyone happy since each human beings is made of and bound to both énergies by nature. Therefore despising one of them distress all of us.
36
I've got two beautiful daughters. WHAT I am wondering is what has Trump's behavior taught men about how to treat women? I've heard very little about his teaching of men to emulate his behavior.
6
Stuart, you use language, in your comment, that the article is analyzing -- you "have" (language of ownership) two "beautiful" daughters (valuing them by their looks). Did you notice...?
6
Trump's behavior is inexcusable, reprehensible, unacceptable and is the epitome of sexual harassment! Mr. Trump is not presidential material nor does he possess the intellect ,maturity and temperment to be Commander and Chief. However, how is his behavior different from Presidents' Kennedy and Clinton. Both were womanizers; both had affairs; and one with a great certainty had sexual encounters in the oval office. Yet in today's political world, we have given them both a pass! Why...? The reason the media! Current day news is not news but tabloid sensationalism. Trump's video was front and center in debate no. 2 and the current article mostly likely be the main focus in debate no. 3. It is unfortunate, the preoccupation by the media is on Trump's past indiscretion, leaving foreign, domestic economic policies secondary. Hillary's low favorable and likability ratings, along with her checkered past have been eclipsed by Trump's buffoonery. His largess and propensiy for imprudence and crypto-neaderthal behavoir has made Hillary the only viable alternative not because of her experience; because of Trump's imbecility.! Unfortunately, neither candidate is deserving of the presidency! Hillary has long obsessed with the presidency these past 30 years; Trump, besides destroying the Republican party and casting doubt on the electoral process will surely be credited of starting a third party movement.. This election cycle will be lowest point in election History!
6
The difference? Other "womanizers" do not brag about assaulting women
10
The difference is that Kennedy & Clinton were intelligent, could take criticism in a rational manner, had even temperaments, remained calm under pressure, didn't go into vengeful rages, knew how to behave, knew they didn't know everything, consulted experts, could take advice, related well with others, could compromise, & were capable of empathy for others. For starters. And btw, Hillary Clinton IS highly experienced & has been very successful in organization, leadership, decision-making, negotiation, & diplomacy. WHY is this not a GOOD thing for a president, according to you???!
15
@ Linda L and lotus main difference no audio or video recordings; secondly, the press corp some 40 years ago had a code of keeping private and public matters separate !
I also think it's significant that these comments came out after Trump made these comments in regards to attractive white women. It just shows that the Republican leadership can't be triggered to any kind of criticism of him unless they can somehow recognize the women offended as valuable within their white-centered world views. I used to tell myself, Republicans are intelligent people who just work from a different ideology for the good of the country. Now I have lost all respect for them. The fact that they would willingly put a monster in charge of the country in order to put their party in the Oval Office is just appalling.
111
You know, he didn't say, 'I'd like to do this' or 'I think about doing this'. He said, 'This is what I do and I get away with it because I'm a star.' Wanting & thinking this stuff in a conversation is indeed demeaning to women. But that's not what he said. Doing it is criminal.
100
From an early age girls learn to identify both with other girls and with boys, perhaps because the majority of the people they witness in a public capacity are male, perhaps because the overwhelming majority of protagonists in children’s entertainment are male. Conversely, boys do not learn to identify with girls; even today, a boy will insult another boy by calling him a "girl."
And so, adult men hearing Trump’s verbal sewage can sympathize, but they cannot empathize: they can imagine their wife or daughter or female friend, but not themselves, as the target of such abuse.
Perhaps this is why so many men phrased their responses as they did.
And so, adult men hearing Trump’s verbal sewage can sympathize, but they cannot empathize: they can imagine their wife or daughter or female friend, but not themselves, as the target of such abuse.
Perhaps this is why so many men phrased their responses as they did.
67
Perhaps they need to raise their consciousness? Then respectful speech will flow naturally! From genuine respect!
1
Almost all Republicans in my deeply red state refer to their wives in the possessive form.
42
As in, "the wife." I have heard that so many times...
19
That is exactly what the GOP males in Louisiana say
2
Exactly. When I hear this I am always thinking, "where is the identifier of caring and affection, "MY WIFE?" "The wife" has always sounded less like something of affection, and more like something you have, like "the TV, etc. Though the words are interchangeable depending on a level of affection and/or attachment, like "my car" if you are very attached to an object. On the flip side, I never hear women saying "the husband."
12
Wouldn't it be refreshing if our senators were to say, "My friends and I would never speak in such disrespectful terms about any human being, and we need to ensure that our sons, brothers and fathers do not as well?"
130
I think for many men, even well intentioned men, there is a big disconnect about how these comments are heard - at a very visceral level by most women. When I heard Trump's comments it immediately brought back all the memories of situations I've been with men like Trump who had attempted to grope me at worst or make me extremely uncomfortable with sexual suggestiveness. Trump's remarks were the perfect summation of the "rape culture" mentality that enable so many men to think it's ok to treat women as sexual object their for their consumption. It demeans us as a society when women are not viewed as equals - as human beings - as persons with the same status as men. But - how could I expect that acknowledgement from a society that still disects Ms. Clintons pant suits, tone of voice, quantity of smiles, and seriousness of cough while doing none of the same to trump nor Sanders.
173
Trump's sniffling even trumped his lurking behind Clinton. I heard him unbelievably saying today that she breached "his space." WTH??
You made some very good points. So true.
I live in NoCAL and never hear "the wife." Maybe a geographical upbringing thing. Generally I hate generalizations, but I think it is more of a Southern expression/way of thinking.
You made some very good points. So true.
I live in NoCAL and never hear "the wife." Maybe a geographical upbringing thing. Generally I hate generalizations, but I think it is more of a Southern expression/way of thinking.
16
I feel the same, every time I hear about Trump's behavioral patterns involving women, it brings back all memories of my past encounters with men! It might not be Trump, but at the same time it feels like a kick in the face to me by anyone and everyone who still supports Donald Trump! My own mother, whom I live dearly, is also a Trump supporter along with my step father, brother, sisters and brother-in-laws! This is so very hard for me to talk about, as it feels like my life doesn't matter at all! As I sit here typing this out, remembering ALL that I have been through with men, rape, sexual assault at jobs, etc. The tears are pouring out of my eyes making it difficult to see this screen! I hate this election because of all the hurt that I'm seeing, and I just wanted to say thank you for sharing your story! It really helps just knowing there are other women that have gone through all the sexual assaults as I have! Due to this, I no longer wear make up and also I have let myself go, feeling ugly inside and out! I don't know if there is anyone out there with similar feelings, but I would like to hear from anyone and everyone and maybe we can help each other just knowing we are not alone in feeling this way! Thank you to anyone who takes the time to read this and please respond if you feel the same or am I all alone? I am so lonely, and I am a christian, which helps me to get thru another 24 hours!
6
Wow, Joan. Your is a very powerful letter, and yes, there are people out here who understand how you feel. Somehow, some way, Joan, I hope you can straighten your shoulders, stand up tall, and embrace your own goodness and worth. It's all there inside of you. You don't need your mother or your step father, your brother, your sisters or you brothers-in-law to validate who you are. I think you are stronger than they are, but you just haven't seen that about yourself yet. You are not alone.
7
Why do we never hear anyone say, "I respect and cherish men," ??
34
Because men would understand that as "man is my king; I bow before him." And you probably don't want to make us feel any more entitled than we already feel.
Patronizing language is in the ear of the beholder.
Patronizing language is in the ear of the beholder.
5
Maybe the fact that men are running most countries, businesses etc. indicates that they are already respected and cherished.
15
It sounds very patronizing.
4
Why don't any of the republicans talk about wanting their daughters to have equal pay for equal work?
134
Or the freedom to choose what they do with their bodies
17
Perhaps because they are too intelligent to believe the fallacy that "women get paid 77 cents for every dollar that a man earns."
If that was actually true, why aren't there companies that hire only women and save 23% on labor costs, allowing them to either rake in extraordinary profits or put their competitors out of business?
I have never gotten a good answer to that question.
If that was actually true, why aren't there companies that hire only women and save 23% on labor costs, allowing them to either rake in extraordinary profits or put their competitors out of business?
I have never gotten a good answer to that question.
1
Or unfettered access to medical care like mammograms, or privacy for rape victims, which Rep Garrett from NJ opposes while describing himself as a "father and husband"
3
And now it's revealed that staffers of Clinton's campaign say exactly the same same things and the girls around are laughing.
Revealed where? Please cite your source, I'd like to see this for myself.
9
When someone says "our daughters" they are saying it in the same way they would say "our fathers" - not enough there to indicate an "implication" of ownership. This is the kind of weak language that gives us progressives a bad name. Concentrate on stuff that actually matters.
7
But there's context and history involved -- we don't live in a post-gender world any more than we live in a post-racial world. Think of the phrase "our father," as, for example, in "our father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name" versus the way "our daughters" is discussed in the context of Trump. There is no comparison -- only contrast in meaning.
4
Frank Bruni has an excellent column on this topic today.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/12/opinion/daughters-and-trumps.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/12/opinion/daughters-and-trumps.html
14
The point should not be the language that Trump used. The point should be that he was telling every "real man" that if you're a "star" this is how you act and women love it. And of course if he was telling the truth about his own conduct, that just makes it worse!
And this in an age when as a society and on practically every college campus we are struggling to get young men and women on the same page regarding sexual relations. And whatever that page should be, certainly should not be the one that Trump was on.
And this in an age when as a society and on practically every college campus we are struggling to get young men and women on the same page regarding sexual relations. And whatever that page should be, certainly should not be the one that Trump was on.
30
Oh how I wish that one of the town hall questions had been from a young woman asking the candidates to explain how they would deal with the problem of sexual assault on campuses.
35
Happily married couples rarely have good relationship advice, but divorced people seem to know all about it. The unexplainable element of forgiveness is conspicuous in its absence. This is a common theme in life.
1
Sen. Mike Lee of Utah said, in his Facebook video about Trump bragging about sexual assault: "This was somebody's sister. This was somebody's daughter...." Should have stopped before the first apostrophe, dude.
57
So when I proudly said "my mother", that meant I owned my mother? What guy tells his mother what to do? Out of 175 million males in this country, you might find more than one, but you won't find many.
The argument does not make sense. If the article were on another portal, I would assume it was only click bait.
The argument does not make sense. If the article were on another portal, I would assume it was only click bait.
3
Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean that you can dismiss it as incorrect.
It makes sense to me. I am no-one's possession, I should not need a man to interpret, stand up for, or support me, and I most emphatically would like to be given the same chances and pay as men - which I never have.
Want an example? With almost a decade of supervisory and management experience I was paid considerably less than a co-supervisor with little experience and no skill.
It makes sense to me. I am no-one's possession, I should not need a man to interpret, stand up for, or support me, and I most emphatically would like to be given the same chances and pay as men - which I never have.
Want an example? With almost a decade of supervisory and management experience I was paid considerably less than a co-supervisor with little experience and no skill.
25
That's NOT the argument! Go a little deeper. Listen to what people are really saying. Figure out what the point really is. Think!
2
I find it odd in an article about language that you would say that some people who responded to Trumps words "labeled the behavior as assault". No, it isn't the words that were the assault, but the behavior he was recounting with those words.
4
J Reaves - NC
No, you don't "get it".
The words were an assault, too".
Do you remember the ditty, "Sticks & stones can break my bones but words can never hurt me" ?
Well, we've matured & discarded that notion.
Words can hurt (as evidenced by the number of people who have killed themselves over words).
No, you don't "get it".
The words were an assault, too".
Do you remember the ditty, "Sticks & stones can break my bones but words can never hurt me" ?
Well, we've matured & discarded that notion.
Words can hurt (as evidenced by the number of people who have killed themselves over words).
24
J. Reaves.....
Words Matter.
Words Matter.
6
I'd like to get women's candid opinion of regular men. I have an idea about the sort of jerk I've been, but would like to know just what women think of men in general.
What steps we take in order to change the way we treat not only women and children, but also other men and ourselves as well.
What steps we take in order to change the way we treat not only women and children, but also other men and ourselves as well.
5
I'm lucky enough to have several men as friends and there's been a good exchange of observations, advice etc.
Overall men are great. My male friends and co-workers are smart, funny, interesting and provide great perspective on all kinds of topics, including relationships.
The very fact that you're interested in women's opinions tells me that you're probably a nice person who gives some thought to your personal development and the people around you. Best wishes.
Overall men are great. My male friends and co-workers are smart, funny, interesting and provide great perspective on all kinds of topics, including relationships.
The very fact that you're interested in women's opinions tells me that you're probably a nice person who gives some thought to your personal development and the people around you. Best wishes.
5
Ian Macfarlane - Philadelphia
What a strange question.
All men are different (just as all women are different).
You'd have to address your question to those who know you.
What a strange question.
All men are different (just as all women are different).
You'd have to address your question to those who know you.
7
Trump says his comments were just "locker room talk", and implies that he he would never actual do those things. So what he is actually saying is, he's not a sexual predator, but he wants other men to believe is.
Why would a man want other men to think he's a sexual predator? That suggests that men, in general, admire sexual predators. So, men - is that true?
Because that's the question women keep having to ask themselves about men. We don't want to believe you are all predators; we too have fathers and brothers and husbands and sons and friends, and (mostly) they don't seem to us to be predators, and we truly don't want them to be.
But when someone like Trump defends his self-portrayal as a sexual predator as normal behavior for men, and other people agree with that......well, we have to wonder.
So, you want to know what steps to take? Start by stating, out loud, that treating _any_ people (including those not related to you) as objects that you can do with as you please. Then start penalizing the men (or women) who don't comply with that - don't laugh at their "jokes", don't egg them on, don't be Billy Bush.
Then maybe we can actually get a world where everyone is treated with respect, and allowed their own autonomy. Even those of us who aren't the daughters of politicians.
Why would a man want other men to think he's a sexual predator? That suggests that men, in general, admire sexual predators. So, men - is that true?
Because that's the question women keep having to ask themselves about men. We don't want to believe you are all predators; we too have fathers and brothers and husbands and sons and friends, and (mostly) they don't seem to us to be predators, and we truly don't want them to be.
But when someone like Trump defends his self-portrayal as a sexual predator as normal behavior for men, and other people agree with that......well, we have to wonder.
So, you want to know what steps to take? Start by stating, out loud, that treating _any_ people (including those not related to you) as objects that you can do with as you please. Then start penalizing the men (or women) who don't comply with that - don't laugh at their "jokes", don't egg them on, don't be Billy Bush.
Then maybe we can actually get a world where everyone is treated with respect, and allowed their own autonomy. Even those of us who aren't the daughters of politicians.
44
Really makes one wonder what the reaction would have been if the video contained Hillary Clinton saying "Grab [men] by the [male sex organ]."
16
HRC would have been the outcast. I think DTrump is an
bragger and he thinks he is God's gift to women. He is
not my choice, and I cannot believe that the GOP thinks he
should be President. OMG>
bragger and he thinks he is God's gift to women. He is
not my choice, and I cannot believe that the GOP thinks he
should be President. OMG>
5
Once again, Robin Lakoff does us WOMEN proud in Berkeley, CA! I have reacted to these 'terms of possession ' of women by men my entire life, but could not articulate why they've always grated on me. The only women who consistently reference 'my man' tend to be country songwriters. Posessive terms demean and reduce women to objects owned and 'admired' by men who protect them because they aren't perceived as being equal in stature /status and able to provide & protect themselves. Let's hear it for these consciousness-raising opportunites in an otherwise dismal & whitering election, which has no parallel in my lifetime. A truly low of all lows in our political history.
21
Great article. My other problem with the majority of the comments from Senators and detractors is that Trump was talking about sexual assault and harassment this was not just "lewd locker room macho man talk" as many say it is. It went so far beyond that.
When you look at statistics on assaults on women, domestic violence, rape, attitudes like this come as no surprise and they run deep in society and the judicial system.
When you look at statistics on assaults on women, domestic violence, rape, attitudes like this come as no surprise and they run deep in society and the judicial system.
32
How about it was offensive to human beings.
Do any of these people have female colleagues?
Do any of these people have female colleagues?
22
Just be patient. As every news source and TV network combs through its video logs, we're sure to see more of The Donald's derogatory and abusive comments about every type of human being -- except himself.
13
No doubt we're just seeing the tip of the iceberg. When "The Apprentice" un-aired segments are released (and they will be), his campaign will be over. He should run for the hills now and quit wasting America's time.
12
it's all so disgusting. before the tape w/ billy bush came out, we already knew Trump hated Mexicans and Muslims, but that wasn't enough for the R party to take seriously. but once he said something about women, they finally reacted. good for them, but a bit late.
19
Tamarine Hautmarche - Brooklyn
The extended Bush family must be SO embarrassed.
The extended Bush family must be SO embarrassed.
6
Some years ago, an immigrant to this country took me to task for talking directly to his girlfriend, instead of through him. In his culture, male dominance was absolute, and women were treated as chattel.
That is an extreme example, of course. I cite it merely to show the intersection of culture and instinct. In some cultures male dominance is elevated, in others, it is muted, but it is prevalent to some extent in most.
Could it be an age-old, inherited instinct that helped ragged bands of early humans survive in a hostile world? That is hard to prove, but it is plausible, and would explain why it is so hard to erase.
Male dominance leaks out all over the place, no more so than in this election. Nate Silver just published two electoral maps showing the outcome of the presidential race – one showing the outcome if just women voted, and the other if just men voted. The difference is startling: http://53eig.ht/2diQTZj (scroll down). You can form your own conclusion.
That is an extreme example, of course. I cite it merely to show the intersection of culture and instinct. In some cultures male dominance is elevated, in others, it is muted, but it is prevalent to some extent in most.
Could it be an age-old, inherited instinct that helped ragged bands of early humans survive in a hostile world? That is hard to prove, but it is plausible, and would explain why it is so hard to erase.
Male dominance leaks out all over the place, no more so than in this election. Nate Silver just published two electoral maps showing the outcome of the presidential race – one showing the outcome if just women voted, and the other if just men voted. The difference is startling: http://53eig.ht/2diQTZj (scroll down). You can form your own conclusion.
13
Thanks. Very interesting. My conclusion: Great progress when women "were given" the vote. Women use their vote wisely & well. Now men should have their vote taken away from them for a few centuries. Fair is fair! LOL.
I wouldn't doubt there's some degree of unconscious sexism here . But how much do we really know "about their own attitudes toward women"? It's only speculation to say that because "..many described them in terms of their relationships to men — wives and daughters" this proves sexism.
"Many people pointed out: What about respecting women as human beings, not just in relation to men? The language also more subtly excluded women, "
This is more speculation presented as if it were established fact. The focus on women as daughters, wives and sisters does not necessarily imply anything sexist, as women have daughters sisters and mothers too. Senator Capito, a women, is also quoted as making the same kind of comments in the article. And women often speak of men in the same light, as did Christina Hoff Sommers while defending "our fathers, husbands, sons, brothers, and friends" against negative stereotypes about them. It's natural to personalize when defending the people you love.
The main thing to take away from the trump reactions is how much support there was for women, and how little tolerance there was for his remarks, even by republicans. To not even mention this in the article is also telling of its author, perhaps.
"Many people pointed out: What about respecting women as human beings, not just in relation to men? The language also more subtly excluded women, "
This is more speculation presented as if it were established fact. The focus on women as daughters, wives and sisters does not necessarily imply anything sexist, as women have daughters sisters and mothers too. Senator Capito, a women, is also quoted as making the same kind of comments in the article. And women often speak of men in the same light, as did Christina Hoff Sommers while defending "our fathers, husbands, sons, brothers, and friends" against negative stereotypes about them. It's natural to personalize when defending the people you love.
The main thing to take away from the trump reactions is how much support there was for women, and how little tolerance there was for his remarks, even by republicans. To not even mention this in the article is also telling of its author, perhaps.
2
Most Republicans still support him as their candidate and will vote for him. They tolerate and support him where it really counts, and pretend to abhor his comments with words that are cheap and as sincere as the Donald's apologies (although they are better actors). Their abhorrence is their unwilling bow to the power of political correctness, and they envy Trump's ability to trash political correctness while fearing the results of this trashing.
Since they do not value being honest with themselves about what they are doing in limiting access to abortions or the franchise, they may not be aware of what they really believe and can easily fool themselves into thinking that their stand for decency is genuine rather than hiding from what they really stand for.
Since they do not value being honest with themselves about what they are doing in limiting access to abortions or the franchise, they may not be aware of what they really believe and can easily fool themselves into thinking that their stand for decency is genuine rather than hiding from what they really stand for.
Making an issue relatable is how people try to convey empathy. You make it relatable by saying "this could be my mother, my wife, my daughter."
When opposing wars people say "would you send your son to fight in Iraq?"
Similarly mothers in the Black Lives Matter movement often speak of "protecting their sons"
I don't really see this as a sexist thing. Quite the contrary viewing an assault against one person, as an assault on your own family (an assault against all), I think is a remarkably noble thing to do. Funny enough, you don't hear republicans use similar language in response to Black Lives Matter.
P.S.
I'm a man.
When opposing wars people say "would you send your son to fight in Iraq?"
Similarly mothers in the Black Lives Matter movement often speak of "protecting their sons"
I don't really see this as a sexist thing. Quite the contrary viewing an assault against one person, as an assault on your own family (an assault against all), I think is a remarkably noble thing to do. Funny enough, you don't hear republicans use similar language in response to Black Lives Matter.
P.S.
I'm a man.
7
As a man, how would it feel if politicians never addressed you directly, but only spoke of you as a son to your mother, or a father to your daughter, while speaking directly only to your mother or daughter? When the concern would be how someone talking disrespectfully about you would affect your mother or your daughter's feelings, not yours? When it would be assumed that your mother or daughter would be the one addressing problems, as if you could not speak (or vote!) for yourself? I know it is not something in your experience, very likely, as a man, but think hard about how that would make you feel. Now, remember that women are a numerical majority, including of voters, and imagine how short-sighted it is to simply address the other 49% as the default while subtly insulting the 51%.....
52
P.S.: No kidding.
What's sexist is that a person has be be thought of as "your mother, your wife, your daughter" in order to be humanized.
What's sexist is that a person has be be thought of as "your mother, your wife, your daughter" in order to be humanized.
38
But people did respond to women directly, as in this quote from the article "I strongly believe that Trump needs to apologize directly to women and girls everywhere" and
"All women deserve to be treated with respect.” - Sen. Hatch
I think the theme of language and word choice proving sexism, or offending most women has gone a bit overboard.
-a man
"All women deserve to be treated with respect.” - Sen. Hatch
I think the theme of language and word choice proving sexism, or offending most women has gone a bit overboard.
-a man
2
I've heard a lot of "locker room talk" over the years.
My high school teammates never bragged about committing sexual assault.
My college teammates never bragged about committing sexual assault.
I've never heard the men at my golf club brag about committing sexual assault.
Trump's words are beyond anything I've ever heard from any man, ever. Inside a locker room or out. There is no excusing his words, no apology can make this go away.
There is no defense of Trump, condemnation and ostracization is the only acceptable response from his political supporters and surrogates.
My high school teammates never bragged about committing sexual assault.
My college teammates never bragged about committing sexual assault.
I've never heard the men at my golf club brag about committing sexual assault.
Trump's words are beyond anything I've ever heard from any man, ever. Inside a locker room or out. There is no excusing his words, no apology can make this go away.
There is no defense of Trump, condemnation and ostracization is the only acceptable response from his political supporters and surrogates.
88
This male Republican reaction fits well into their general politics regarding women. The fact that all of these men do not regard women as capable for deciding themselves in regard to their sexual and reproductive choices is testament enough to how they view women, and you can't forget that all of these men at least give lip service to Christian ideology, an ideology that treats women as objects and fully regards them as subservient in their roles as satisfying male sexual desire and in reproduction. This linguistic analysis only confirms what we know in so many other ways.
67
I think you need to include orthodox Jews and Muslims in that statement!
3
A similar partisan divide seems to occur when it comes to LGBT rights. Democrats tend to be in favor of equal treatment, period. Republicans only come around once an immediate family member comes out of the closet.
62
Your comment brings to mind a related issue, WmC.
I haven't done any sort of comparative survey, but it seems to me that many of those who dismiss Trump's bragging about groping women are the same ones so concerned about the mythical menace of "their" wives, daughters, etc. being groped by a transgender woman in a ladies' room.
I haven't done any sort of comparative survey, but it seems to me that many of those who dismiss Trump's bragging about groping women are the same ones so concerned about the mythical menace of "their" wives, daughters, etc. being groped by a transgender woman in a ladies' room.
22
Exactly! Thank you so much for this analysis.
As I've seen and heard these men talking about how Trump demeans "our" wives, daughters, mothers, I've wanted to scream that for some of us he also demeans "our" SELVES.
Women should not be defined as men's possessions, no matter how benevolent those men consider themselves.
As I've seen and heard these men talking about how Trump demeans "our" wives, daughters, mothers, I've wanted to scream that for some of us he also demeans "our" SELVES.
Women should not be defined as men's possessions, no matter how benevolent those men consider themselves.
126
I would refer you to the comment by "responder" above. To refer to "our wives" or "our daughters" is simply to make the issue more personal and more relatable. To refer simply to "women" in general may be more accurate but becomes more abstract and thus has far less impact. So I would view this mode of expression as a rhetorical technique rather than an indication of sexist bias.
Also, when a man speaks of his wife or his daughter, or a woman refers to her husband or her child, it is the only simple way we have to indicate the relationship in the English language. To interpret this as a signifier of property is really going overboard...
Also, when a man speaks of his wife or his daughter, or a woman refers to her husband or her child, it is the only simple way we have to indicate the relationship in the English language. To interpret this as a signifier of property is really going overboard...
5
I disagree. It isn't going overboard, it's demanding equality.
If these guys were trying to show empathy, why didn't they say, "how would you feel if you were on your way to a professional meeting and someone grabbed your private parts and treated you like an object?" That creates empathy.
Saying that someone must be "protected" (because they're weak), because they're your wife/mother/daughter (some woman you know, who has status in your eyes, and isn't random slut down the street who was asking for it) is problematic at best, sexist in any case, and misogynistic at worst.
If these guys were trying to show empathy, why didn't they say, "how would you feel if you were on your way to a professional meeting and someone grabbed your private parts and treated you like an object?" That creates empathy.
Saying that someone must be "protected" (because they're weak), because they're your wife/mother/daughter (some woman you know, who has status in your eyes, and isn't random slut down the street who was asking for it) is problematic at best, sexist in any case, and misogynistic at worst.
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We can, instead of "my wife" or "my husband", speak of my spouse (the person to whom I'm currently married).
If you "look up" the Old English derivations of husband & wife, you may find you prefer spouse.
If you "look up" the Old English derivations of husband & wife, you may find you prefer spouse.
I agree with Ms. Lakoff. It is really frustrating to hear men talk about "our" wives and daughters when the truth is, the population they are addressing numerically consists of more women than men! As a woman it is unnerving hearing myself discussed only in relation to men, to other men, as opposed to be addressed directly by the politician speaking. We women are the numerical majority, and I would like to be spoken to directly and have my concerns addressed as a fellow adult human, not have some man talk to my husband or father about me like it's 1800, or current day Saudi Arabia.
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And I am TIRED of hearing how Trump’s supporters are angry as their “manhood” is being taken away--no more easy manufacturing jobs at the Ford plant at $75/hr. Oh boo hoo!
Before I became an RN, then an MD I was a motel maid for $1/hr and I WOULD go back to scrubbing toilets if necessary! But men? Hell no..they would NEVER think of home health care or house cleaning or scrubbing floors-why is that?
Because it’s “woman’s work?” I am sick of not being treated at as equal--I am tired of the Ted Cruz’ of the world who don’t think women should be drafted! You men do NOT get to tell us what we can and can’t do!
If I am unable to be on SEAL Team 6 I want it to be because I couldn’t pass the rigorous physical and mental tests required NOT because I don’t have a penis!
What is hilarious is that they DON’T champion our cause--they DON’T respect us---these are just words (as Trump always says)--you respect us? Respect our right to control our own reproductive choices--you do NOT get to tell me what birth control I can use or whether I choose to have an abortion or choose to bury my aborted fetus, Mike Pence!
Respect? Raise the minimum wage to $22/hr so I can raise my children without having to depend on a man or the government--give us universal Pre-K, nationalized child care, full single payer health care, full reproductive rights, give us our dignity back!