Exactly what part don't I get, Nick. We talk a lot about Affirmative Action. It was supposed to fix the legacy of slavery and segregation, but it's been hijacked by every group on the Sun who never suffered from those evils. I've worked with black IT people. They're as competent as anyone. Indeed, the ones with a military and Southern background are more disciplined and polite than a lot of the white IT people, yet across the board there's little effort to bring blacks into the IT community. Recently, we've had the bizarre spectacle of the Dept of Labor demanding that a large IT company hire 85% Asians for its IT staff. How insane is that. What's it like to be young and black in America? The police are the least of their problems. Last week my son's friend was robbed at gunpoint by six other young blacks. I want the streets safe for our children and I want them to have the opportunity for some sort of decent job. Deal with that and then get back to be about the rest.
51
Depressing. But horrifying that we deny appropriate pain relief to Black children in ERs. We woulde sue our vets if they mistreated our dog or cat but we allow this with Black children? Shame.
31
In the school I worked at in South Central, I was one of a handful of white teachers and I walked into the school a bleeding heart liberal and came out 6 years later a moderate. My take on all this is-- yes, there is discrimination and unfairness in the world. I am priviledged because I am educated and have resources to make the right choices. I understand how to fight the battles. I know how to play the game. I see many of my formerly disadvantaged students who have gone on to successful positions in life because they and their parents understood this, as well. They took advantage of all that was offered to them - like free SAT help, after school homework assistance, free breakfast and lunch programs, etc. These parents attended the PTA meetings and were advocates for their sons and daughters. I've also seen students (black, white, Hispanic) who made wrong choices like drugs, gangs, and having a baby at 17, start their lives with extra burdens and are now reduced to 'just getting by'. Many times the color of the skin means less than the ambition and tenacity that's inside the person. And many times, it takes a parent or a mentor to guide a young person onto the right path and give them hope that life can be better.
103
While recognizing that racism will not go away anytime soon, so many of the obvious things that could hasten its demise are being totally overlooked. The problem with segregation is that it fosters irrational hatreds and there is only one cure for that malady, direct, up close, frequent dialogue and continued good education. When smart whites stop getting formal education, they usually have a a degree and a clique of friends still interested in getting more timely and relevant knowledge. When smart blacks finish college, they usually are just more job oriented with few looking at furthering timely and relevant current knowledge.
That is the picture on the higher side, now let’s take a look at the lower side, the place where most blacks and whites are mentally located. Being in segregated enclaves, we enforce the stereotypes and divisions that separate us. Blacks and whites in these group do not relate to each other as equals with similar likes, we only see "them" and "us". There is never a "we can work together and solve 'our' problems."
The trouble with all the research is that the researchers are all trying to fit things to some impartial model, a sign of their teaching and trying to get it statistically correct. Human interactions lay’s waste to all those statistical models. In the last 20 years, Roger Ailes was given a blank check to create a new society and he succeeded, much to the detriment of a diverse America.
We need Incentivized Integration to spread acceptance!
That is the picture on the higher side, now let’s take a look at the lower side, the place where most blacks and whites are mentally located. Being in segregated enclaves, we enforce the stereotypes and divisions that separate us. Blacks and whites in these group do not relate to each other as equals with similar likes, we only see "them" and "us". There is never a "we can work together and solve 'our' problems."
The trouble with all the research is that the researchers are all trying to fit things to some impartial model, a sign of their teaching and trying to get it statistically correct. Human interactions lay’s waste to all those statistical models. In the last 20 years, Roger Ailes was given a blank check to create a new society and he succeeded, much to the detriment of a diverse America.
We need Incentivized Integration to spread acceptance!
8
We need to stop fighting over whether racism exists in this country and start examining how it intersects with social class and money. Slavery was practiced as far back in human history as we know of, but what made the American institution of slavery so pernicious was the racism that evolved to justify its practice by Christians. This country couldn't give up slavery because it was necessary to the growth of the economy so instead it de-humanized black people in order to justify brutalizing and enslaving them. We are still feeling the effects of that de-humanization. It is expressed in the legacy of Jim Crow laws which has left a segment of the white population believing they are inherently superior to all black people; the "soft racism" of low expectations and shamefully bad schools; and the willingness of some black people, backs to the wall, to fulfill the guilt-based prophecy on the part of white people that black people are violent thugs who are out to get them. Black people, men in particular, fear that no matter who they are or what they achieve, no matter how middle class (i.e. white) their lives, they could still end up dead at a routine traffic stop. As a white, middle-class woman who grew up in a rural, alcoholic household without enough money, I know how much dissonance upward mobility through education has created for me, but at least I don't feel as if I've joined a group that dehumanized my people and now just wants me to shut up and go away.
54
Racism of any kind is most dangerous when it's unconscious. The more we strive to acknowledge our biases, the more we can grow and change and learn to respect one another.
43
Another example: A black man told me that white people won't sit next to him on the subway unless there are no other seats available.
25
Race relations today is a reality produced by historical constructions of what race means. There is no scientific evidence whatsoever to even remotely suggest that there are any differences between human beings. One cannot justify enslaving a fellow human being or taking away sacred lands, so a reality is constructed by those with power and privilege to classify some groups of people as less than human. As inequality continues to widen in the U.S., people are increasingly frustrated, and they are projecting that frustration on outgroups. Xenophobia is not new in our history, and tragically, it is again on the rise.
Perhaps one day the issue of race will become what it truly needs to be, and that is the issue of social class. If we truly want to reduce racism and our other social problems in American society, we must reduce inequality, implement a high quality universal preschool program, adopt a national family policy, properly fund education, and provide adequate economic opportunities for all.
Perhaps one day the issue of race will become what it truly needs to be, and that is the issue of social class. If we truly want to reduce racism and our other social problems in American society, we must reduce inequality, implement a high quality universal preschool program, adopt a national family policy, properly fund education, and provide adequate economic opportunities for all.
13
Nothing new in this article. I would like to see an honest discussion about race that tries to (1) identify the problem (and it's not discrimination -- in today's world -- but something more fundamental) and (2) at least suggest some solutions. Clinging to the mantel of "professional victimhood" is not going to solve anything. And the press, including this newspaper, perpetuates the image of African-Americans as victims of a racist society. This is true in many circumstances, but is a simplistic response to a complex problem. Who has the courage to look at race relations in America in an objective, unbiased, unflinching and turn-over-every-stone way? I haven't found that person yet; not even close.
JD
JD
25
Good luck curing racism, Mr. Kristof. We live in a country that pats itself on the back for sugarcoating the issue, while the rift at the center of our national soul remains as deep as ever. https://soundcloud.com/biff-thuringer/white-mans-world
6
I believe Mr. Kristof is more in denial about racial inequalities than the Whites whom he says "just don't get it."
Indeed, Mr. Kristof seems to be in denial about basic biology and statistics. Does he really believe there are no natural, heritable, racial traits? And if there are measurable differences in a variety of life outcomes and performance, between people of different races, is this due solely to human bias and prejudice?
When we witness decades of overwhelming superiority of Olympic sprinters of West African descent, no one in their right mind believes this is due to cultural bias or racial discrimination against Whites and Asians and others. Every reasonable person acknowledges an evolutionary, genetic advantage here.
Yet when Blacks commit crime at higher rates or score lower than Whites and Asians on IQ tests and the SAT, what do people believe? Most of those who believe natural genetic differences might be at play, bite their tongues less they be called racists and thrown into Hillary's basket of deplorables.
Mr. Kristof and others tell us that any such differences can be explained by the legacy of slavery, segregation, economic inequality, White bigotry, bias, etc. But if he looks at average SAT score differences, he will see that Blacks from families making more than $100,000 score lower than Whites from families making less than $10,000.
No one has all the answers but perhaps Mr. Kristof should blame Mother Nature instead of White bigotry.
Indeed, Mr. Kristof seems to be in denial about basic biology and statistics. Does he really believe there are no natural, heritable, racial traits? And if there are measurable differences in a variety of life outcomes and performance, between people of different races, is this due solely to human bias and prejudice?
When we witness decades of overwhelming superiority of Olympic sprinters of West African descent, no one in their right mind believes this is due to cultural bias or racial discrimination against Whites and Asians and others. Every reasonable person acknowledges an evolutionary, genetic advantage here.
Yet when Blacks commit crime at higher rates or score lower than Whites and Asians on IQ tests and the SAT, what do people believe? Most of those who believe natural genetic differences might be at play, bite their tongues less they be called racists and thrown into Hillary's basket of deplorables.
Mr. Kristof and others tell us that any such differences can be explained by the legacy of slavery, segregation, economic inequality, White bigotry, bias, etc. But if he looks at average SAT score differences, he will see that Blacks from families making more than $100,000 score lower than Whites from families making less than $10,000.
No one has all the answers but perhaps Mr. Kristof should blame Mother Nature instead of White bigotry.
45
Racism cuts both ways. the black community will never achieve equality in this area until they decide to assimilate into the American Culture. Blaming all of your problems on "Racism" is just another excuse to not exercise personal responsibility. Mr. Kristoff alludes to this when he says "86% of blacks say that family breakup is the reason for difficulties for African Americans". As usual, there is no solution provided as the solution involves black teens not having sex and not having unwanted pregnancies they cannot afford. This one problem is the reason black public schools are not as good as white, suburban public schools and this lack of basic education insures blacks will never be able to overcome their situation and the resulting racist treatment. Why very educated liberals do not acknowledge this basic fact and prefer the lazy route of using "Racism" as a catch all for the problems in the black community is perturbing to me. 8 years of a black president who legitimizes the BLM movement and other forums that are based on a lie should give proof that racism is a 2 way street and cannot be stamped out by pandering to the black community. I think consolidating votes is the only goal of the democratic party and this has not assisted the black community with their core issues.
36
I grew up in a racist, working class neighborhood in Queens. What I learned is that overcoming racism takes hard work. You must first admit your own racism and see it as as a personal weakness. You must educate yourself in the history of the black experience in America. And finally, you must treat African Americans on an equal basis. When you do those things, you will find people of color in your social circles and friendships and you will ultimately learn that seeing the intrinsic value of other human beings is to glimpse into your own intrinsic value.
114
Many of the comments here seem to make Kristoff's point for him. Why does this series of articles lead to so much defensiveness and even explicit racism? ("go live with Blacks and you'll change your tune" for instance). I'm a White American and agree with Mr. Kristoff completely.
25
Let's spend less time pointing fingers AND less time looking in the mirror, because that is the hardest thing to do.
Let's start with something easier, but no less important. Why are minority people (men) often associated with violence? Sure, many do live in violent neighborhoods. But why do they live there? People generally live in the best neighborhood they can afford; perhaps they couldn't afford a condo in Trump Tower. Perhaps they are paid less than white peers even when they can land the jobs; perhaps their schools (public, not private) gave them fewer tools to start with, and poorer alumni networks; perhaps their families have less cushion for the bad times (no basement to live in when you graduate without a job; no "small" $1 Million starter loan); and on and on.
It was an eye opener for me when Ta-Nehisi Coates revealed how even the GI Bill discriminated against black veterans' ability to buy homes in the suburbs.
So in all kinds of structural ways that you don't see when you look at an individual, their "game" was pre-rigged.
After we have dispassionately absorbed all of that (and more), then maybe we can take a quick look in the mirror. But I don't think that's a productive place to start; denial makes liars of us all.
Let's start with something easier, but no less important. Why are minority people (men) often associated with violence? Sure, many do live in violent neighborhoods. But why do they live there? People generally live in the best neighborhood they can afford; perhaps they couldn't afford a condo in Trump Tower. Perhaps they are paid less than white peers even when they can land the jobs; perhaps their schools (public, not private) gave them fewer tools to start with, and poorer alumni networks; perhaps their families have less cushion for the bad times (no basement to live in when you graduate without a job; no "small" $1 Million starter loan); and on and on.
It was an eye opener for me when Ta-Nehisi Coates revealed how even the GI Bill discriminated against black veterans' ability to buy homes in the suburbs.
So in all kinds of structural ways that you don't see when you look at an individual, their "game" was pre-rigged.
After we have dispassionately absorbed all of that (and more), then maybe we can take a quick look in the mirror. But I don't think that's a productive place to start; denial makes liars of us all.
14
We have become a victimization culture. To some extent that is what the politics of personal identity is all amount. Who is the bigger victim and who deserves to both benefits and to be excused of responsibility. An interesting turn over has been a group of Whites, now associated with Trump, claiming the mantle of victim.
That said, race is very limited in this race unless you count Latinos and Muslims as racial categories. The reaction to opoid addiction maybe a matter of race, as Mr. Kristof, speculates but it is also a matter of crime rates and how one gets heroin versus how one gets prescription drugs.
That said, race is very limited in this race unless you count Latinos and Muslims as racial categories. The reaction to opoid addiction maybe a matter of race, as Mr. Kristof, speculates but it is also a matter of crime rates and how one gets heroin versus how one gets prescription drugs.
10
Mr. Kristof, I certainly hope you walk your talk. Thank you.
9
I'm against racism just as much as anyone else but when we can't seem to find specific examples of racism we now resort to "instinctual racism". For the left to literally call all white men racist/sexist is disgusting. We can't go around claiming institutional racism. If there is an institution that is racist point it out and lets fix it.
26
Mr. Kristof, I applaud your goal but I don't think any amount of lecturing will change minds. I can understand why whites might feel exhausted hearing these lectures. Note how many comments tend to describe blacks or minorities as the other or the problems they face as "their" problems. This lack of empathy comes from scarcity of a sense of shared destiny as Americans whatever our racial or socio-economic background may be. I feel that if each of us make an effort to expand our circle of meaningful relationships to include people that look, act, and think different than us, it will make us better citizens. Such an outreach need not start and stop with race. It could be across age, sexual identity, language, etc. And, it need not apply to just whites but should apply to others. I now live in a neighborhood that is transitioning from older white residents to people of East and South Asian backgrounds, almost all of us Americans. I have found plenty of joy, fulfillment and have gained much wisdom and knowledge from the daily interactions with my neighbors. It makes them less alien to me and us less alien to them. Sadly, these days we live in neighborhoods that are far too segregated and monolithic to make such interactions easy but that's a topic for another column.
11
Look up Robin DiAngelo's journal article titled White Fragility.
3
Why is it astonishing to so many whites that almost 40 million black people are INDIVIDUALS?
17
The seventh installment on Kristof's self congratulatory series. Congratulations!
22
We understand, whites (particularly men) are evil. We drove out Native Americans, enslaved blacks, caused climate change, et al. It's so refreshing to have this enlightened columnist here to bring out the laundry list. Reading these columns is becoming derivative. Happily for him, Mr. Kristof doesn't work in the movie business - he would go broke. His title gives away the plot and leaves little to the imagination.
30
One thing I don't get, is the constant use of the word "racist" in today's vernacular. It's now a totally overused buzzword like "Nazi" or Socialist" that has lost it's original meaning. Are we prejudiced - yes. Is there discrimination - yes. Is there race-based stereotyping - yes. And bigotry - yes, I can see all that.
But the word "racist" means a person believes their race is superior and has the right to dominate or exterminate others. Like the real Hitler, or the KKK. Most of the stories I see lately have no real racism involved. Or maybe the meaning of the word has changed?
But the word "racist" means a person believes their race is superior and has the right to dominate or exterminate others. Like the real Hitler, or the KKK. Most of the stories I see lately have no real racism involved. Or maybe the meaning of the word has changed?
22
Mr. Kristof:
the headline for your column states that this is your Seventh effort at covering this subject.
it would likely be helpful if you were to compare and contrast what is new,
different, changing or endlessly repeating from your first instruction class to this one.
perhaps you are simply attempting to reach a "new" audience of readers...
you do not inform us of your intent or how this episode fits or deviates from your overall syllabus.
put another way:
while you enumerate,
once again,
a long-laundry-list of failures within our society,
there is a scarcity of suggested or recommended solutions...
or what efforts are already underfoot to address our needs.
if you truly wish to have a conversation about this very important subject,
maybe encouraging interactive participation,
from all of the stakeholders involved,
- - - namely everyone - - -
would prove to be both enlightening and constructive.
our re-edumacation will require that mirrors be held-up for all,
and that openness-to-change be the foundation for our collective futures.
in spite of the foregoing's too-apparent critiques,
i do look forward to your next installment.
thank you.
2
Race relations today is a reality produced by historical constructions of what race means. There is no scientific evidence whatsoever to even remotely suggest that there are any differences between human beings. One cannot justify enslaving a fellow human being or taking away sacred lands, so a reality is constructed by those with power and privilege to classify some groups of people as less than human. As inequality continues to widen in the U.S., people are increasingly frustrated, and they are projecting that frustration on 'outgroups.' Xenophobia is not new in our history, and tragically, it is again on the rise.
Perhaps one day the issue of race will become what it truly needs to be, and that is the issue of social class. If we truly want to reduce racism and our other social problems in American society, we must reduce inequality, implement a high quality universal preschool program, adopt a national family policy, properly fund education, and provide adequate economic opportunities for all.
Perhaps one day the issue of race will become what it truly needs to be, and that is the issue of social class. If we truly want to reduce racism and our other social problems in American society, we must reduce inequality, implement a high quality universal preschool program, adopt a national family policy, properly fund education, and provide adequate economic opportunities for all.
1
Thank you Mr. Kristof.
5
The Times's recent story on evangelical Christians' uneasy allegiance to Trump contained a probably inadvertently revealing quote. A rural white evangelical man was quoted as saying that he used to feel that his views were shared by a majority of Americans, but now he feels that he is in the minority. I think this fear of being in the minority is a keystone of the Trump appeal to white, Christian Americans, especially heterosexual men.
At some level these folks must be aware how badly minorities have been treated, and continue to be treated, by the traditional majority - and maybe that's what scares them about their own imminent minority status. It seems to me that the remedy to this discomfort is to decrease, not increase, the importance of race, sex, religion, and sexual orientation in how we treat each other.
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
At some level these folks must be aware how badly minorities have been treated, and continue to be treated, by the traditional majority - and maybe that's what scares them about their own imminent minority status. It seems to me that the remedy to this discomfort is to decrease, not increase, the importance of race, sex, religion, and sexual orientation in how we treat each other.
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
8
I feel like an annoying emissary of the future sent back in time.
One should not refer to President Obama as "a black president". He is as much "white" as "black". He is only "black" according to the "white" supremacist "one drop" rule. Do I need to tell you this?: "You should not agree with those people!" In any case his skin tone is not relevant, it is not meaningful, it signifies nothing else about him. It is as relevant to him and his presidency as his being lanky, and his being left-handed. How inclined do you feel to call him "a lanky president" or "a left-handed president" when referring to him? You should feel as little inclined to refer to him as "a 'black' president"! It is not germane!
The people of the future will get this. Trust me.
One should not refer to President Obama as "a black president". He is as much "white" as "black". He is only "black" according to the "white" supremacist "one drop" rule. Do I need to tell you this?: "You should not agree with those people!" In any case his skin tone is not relevant, it is not meaningful, it signifies nothing else about him. It is as relevant to him and his presidency as his being lanky, and his being left-handed. How inclined do you feel to call him "a lanky president" or "a left-handed president" when referring to him? You should feel as little inclined to refer to him as "a 'black' president"! It is not germane!
The people of the future will get this. Trust me.
7
Thank you, Mr. Kristof for making this effort. From the tone of several responses, it seems that opinions and attitudes are graven in stone in certain quarters. It is like shoveling sand against the tide to get folks to think rationally. "The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye: the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract." (Oliver Wendell Holmes)
12
Please, wake up, America -- this country was built on the fruits of slavery and genocide. Racism is woven into the fabric of our institutions and our public policy: housing policies, lending policies, school admissions policies, suspension policies, health care policies, drug voting and districting policies -- they all have (or had, at some time in the past) an explicit race-based rationale. Open your eyes -- it's not about you, the white individual. It's about a country that rose to power and wealth on the backs of other peoples. Of course racism is not over yet; if we can't even look at how endemic it is, we surely can't bring it to an end.
10
mr kristof you consistently use non nuanced language grouping people into black and white categories. so while there's a lot of truth in what you say, ultimately on a deeper level, your kind of thinking is ironically part - even at the root - of the problem. it's a paradox but it's true. this does not mean that informed people who care deeply about these problems but advocate a partially color blind approach - certainly not the PC ludicrous-think of late - are all in denial of their unconscious bias. do you really think what you propose will help society's problems? people need to see each other as people - and most do, I think - and socio-economic issues need to be seen in less simplistic terms. that is not to deny that there's truth in your viewpoint. but ultimately you play into the hands of the trump crowd with the simplistic black and white naivete that white people as some monolothic group taking a hard look in the mirror is where solutions can begin.
3
If reading your column means, as a white person, I don't get it, well ,that's fine. Your version of "not getting it" is laughable and amorphous.
23
Race relations today is a reality produced by historical constructions of what race means. There is no scientific evidence whatsoever to even remotely suggest that there are any differences between human beings. One cannot justify enslaving a fellow human being or taking away sacred lands, so a reality is constructed by those with power and privilege to classify some groups of people as less than human. As inequality continues to widen in the U.S., people are increasingly frustrated, and they are projecting that frustration on outgroups. Xenophobia is not new in our history, and tragically, it is again on the rise.
Perhaps one day the issue of race will become what it truly needs to be, and that is the issue of social class. If we truly want to reduce racism and our other social problems in American society, we must reduce inequality, implement a high quality universal preschool program, adopt a national family policy, properly fund education, and provide adequate economic opportunities for all.
Perhaps one day the issue of race will become what it truly needs to be, and that is the issue of social class. If we truly want to reduce racism and our other social problems in American society, we must reduce inequality, implement a high quality universal preschool program, adopt a national family policy, properly fund education, and provide adequate economic opportunities for all.
4
Bless you Nicholas Kristof you're the only white man that understands. You're smart, intelligent, and understanding. You are a treasure. Does your wife know how lucking she is? Does the NYT know how lucky they are to have you on their staff?
17
Institutional racism is one thing; common-variety prejudice is another. Conflating the two does a huge disservice to the black community because in trying to eradicate individual preferences and biases, the bigger picture is forgotten. If predominantly black communities receive less money in federal support than their white counterparts, it is racism. If a white woman does not want to date a black man, it is individual preference. Moreover, some preferences have a rational basis. I would not want to live in an inner city because of the high level of crime and violence. Whether the blame lies with the black communities themselves or with white racism, it does not matter. I will avoid lone black males on the street and won't go into predominantly black areas until crime statistics change.
9
When Kristof Just Doesn’t Get It, Part 999. Some of the commenters do, though.
10
I am a teacher in Lincoln, Nebraska. 25 years ago my principal led an activity about white privilege that I have never forgotten. He had the entire staff, including all non-certificated staff, form a line in the gymnasium. The then made a series of statements and asked that we step forward or backward depending on our experience. i.e. Step forward 2 steps if your parents are both college graduates. Step backward 2 steps if your parents did not graduate from high school. At that time we had an African American custodian. At one point he step backward out of the gym door and called out to the principal, "He _____, I'm outside here." That experience has always stuck with me. Not only don't we recognize prejudice, but we don't understand white privilege.
11
If liberals continue this foolish trend of falsely accusing perfectly rational white people of being closet racists, they will eventually recoil and let their displeasure be known through shifting votes.
19
The curing of racism is impossible. The differences in color, culture, and beliefs are never going away.
9
If ever I need a reminder of whether racism still exists in this country, all I need to do is reread then comments to this article. Sad how ignorant many people are.
13
Like men of color, white women have also been considered second class citizens/chattel for most of this country's history. The right to vote was finally granted to women in 1919. Almost 100 years later, wage parity is still beyond our reach. This even though women are not a minority population. Women make up half the sky!
Discrimination in all its forms deserves no place in America's future. Let us defeat those like Trump who want to make America great again. They really just want to make America WHITE MALE controlled again.
The white male entitlement to dominate the rest of us must end! Let's Make America's future great for ALL!!
Discrimination in all its forms deserves no place in America's future. Let us defeat those like Trump who want to make America great again. They really just want to make America WHITE MALE controlled again.
The white male entitlement to dominate the rest of us must end! Let's Make America's future great for ALL!!
4
I think the general public is tiring of these types of "wedge" issues. Enough.
All of this racist awareness is taking away from the real problem-CLASS.
United we are strong. Divided we will fall.
For as many racial and multi-ethnicities that are in this country, I think we get along rather amazingly well. Where else in the world is there this type of diversity in as great numbers as a whole?
United we are strong. Divided we will fall.
Pay closer attention to the larger, looming "class" picture. There lays the culprit of many of our problems. Class division is greater than we think.
All of this racist awareness is taking away from the real problem-CLASS.
United we are strong. Divided we will fall.
For as many racial and multi-ethnicities that are in this country, I think we get along rather amazingly well. Where else in the world is there this type of diversity in as great numbers as a whole?
United we are strong. Divided we will fall.
Pay closer attention to the larger, looming "class" picture. There lays the culprit of many of our problems. Class division is greater than we think.
13
Dear Nick,
You left out a very important reasons for racism, fear & crime,The percentage of black crime in the United States is greater than the percentage of the Black population in the United States.they are the only race that has this distinction.There isn’t a local TV News program where Black people are
not hand cuffed & arrested.Print Journalism has discontinued naming the race of the perpetrator,TV News doesn’t have to.Black crime equates to fear, & fear equates to racism.The answer to Black crime is good education, which will lead to good jobs that offer a future. Easier said than done under the conditions that many blacks live, which also calls for urban renewal, which is slowly beginning in some of the major cities in America.Good Jobs & Good Pay, are the necessary ingredients to restore self esteem, which is the
antidote for crime.
You left out a very important reasons for racism, fear & crime,The percentage of black crime in the United States is greater than the percentage of the Black population in the United States.they are the only race that has this distinction.There isn’t a local TV News program where Black people are
not hand cuffed & arrested.Print Journalism has discontinued naming the race of the perpetrator,TV News doesn’t have to.Black crime equates to fear, & fear equates to racism.The answer to Black crime is good education, which will lead to good jobs that offer a future. Easier said than done under the conditions that many blacks live, which also calls for urban renewal, which is slowly beginning in some of the major cities in America.Good Jobs & Good Pay, are the necessary ingredients to restore self esteem, which is the
antidote for crime.
16
Rich liberals whitesplaining from their gated communities. LOL
28
I think that Mr. Kristof doesn't get it. I'm 70, when I was young segregation was the rule, separate schools, back of the bus, etc. These things have changed and are continuing to change, it is just a change that will or can not be quick. Blacks and whites both have to "man up".
4
Maybe Mr. Christophe should open his eyes, there are other people besides black-and-white.
As Shakespeare would say he protest too much.
As Shakespeare would say he protest too much.
7
Since you appear to be a white guy, Nick, I assume that you "just don't get it" either. But, not "getting it" has never deterred you from whatever it is that motivates you - white guilt, privileged shame? Keep playing your race cards. They pay for your hikes on the PCT.
19
Having many friends with small to medium size businesses I can say firsthand that many business owners do in fact, when given a choice to hirer an equally qualified black or white candidate, hire the white one. The reason has nothing to do with racism as usually defined, but the fact that if the person does not work out firing the white worker is straightforward while firing the black worker carries inherent risks of lawsuits. I know of several instances where baseless suits have been settled just because it's too expensive to go on.
I believe that anti-discrimination laws and regulations are regrettably necessary but they come with a cost. What to do- IDK
I believe that anti-discrimination laws and regulations are regrettably necessary but they come with a cost. What to do- IDK
16
im confused about this:"Take something as simple as crossing the street. In one study by scholars at Portland State University and the University of Arizona, three black men and three white men played pedestrians trying to cross a street at a crosswalk. On average, a black pedestrian was passed by twice as many vehicles before a driver yielded."
wouldn't the race of the drivers have an affect on the poll? if the drivers were 90% black and only yielded for white people or if the drivers were 90% latino and only yielded for black people would that change the outcome?
just curious.
wouldn't the race of the drivers have an affect on the poll? if the drivers were 90% black and only yielded for white people or if the drivers were 90% latino and only yielded for black people would that change the outcome?
just curious.
4
When Whites Don't Get It? Nick Kristof should try gazing in a mirror for a change. A privileged white male cannot credibly diagnose the problems the Black community faces -- now or ever! The fact that Nick's opinions are given wide credibility is, in a simple word, tragic.
12
Whats most fascinating to me, as I peruse these comments (and on other threads) is how up the against the wall, many white commenters get with any discussion about race and racism. It's always this; "Now hold on, Im not going to even discuss this till we acknowledge that study X, Y is biased and Im not racist!"
Okay. Studies are not exact, some are biased, and not all whites harbor deep resentments about EEOC rules and regs. None of us suddenly lock our car doors in circumstances where non-whites are around, or have a knee-jerk reaction when we see some rambunctious black youth coming our way, and we never, ever think disparaging thoughts about non-whites.
We're all perfect. Whites have mostly abandoned their racist ways, leaving maybe but a few percent behind..the hardcore.
Yet racism still permeates the system. Is still a huge and results gaining tool for candidates like Trump. Who got his original traction by using race (Obama's status as citizen, and his "Wall") to attract a fan-base. Many in the GOP still race-bait, still use the "Willie Horton form" of tough on crime campaigning, wholly ignore white collar crimes committed by mostly whites in powerful positions that wreak the most damage on the nation.
We still see whites cringe when a black man dates a white woman, but give the white male dating an attractive, not-so looking black female a fist pump. Whites regularly over react to even a cereal commercial with a mixed raced family.
But its okay we're perfect.
Okay. Studies are not exact, some are biased, and not all whites harbor deep resentments about EEOC rules and regs. None of us suddenly lock our car doors in circumstances where non-whites are around, or have a knee-jerk reaction when we see some rambunctious black youth coming our way, and we never, ever think disparaging thoughts about non-whites.
We're all perfect. Whites have mostly abandoned their racist ways, leaving maybe but a few percent behind..the hardcore.
Yet racism still permeates the system. Is still a huge and results gaining tool for candidates like Trump. Who got his original traction by using race (Obama's status as citizen, and his "Wall") to attract a fan-base. Many in the GOP still race-bait, still use the "Willie Horton form" of tough on crime campaigning, wholly ignore white collar crimes committed by mostly whites in powerful positions that wreak the most damage on the nation.
We still see whites cringe when a black man dates a white woman, but give the white male dating an attractive, not-so looking black female a fist pump. Whites regularly over react to even a cereal commercial with a mixed raced family.
But its okay we're perfect.
8
Fanning the flames, enforcing resentment, shutting down dialog, part 7.
Opioids were never a black problem.
How do suburban black children and urban (or rural) white children fair in school?
etc, etc...
Class/economic security/educational achievement/family coherence/ambition, these are contributing factors in success in life. Race, not so much. Correlation is not causation.
Opioids were never a black problem.
How do suburban black children and urban (or rural) white children fair in school?
etc, etc...
Class/economic security/educational achievement/family coherence/ambition, these are contributing factors in success in life. Race, not so much. Correlation is not causation.
6
There is never any frank discussion about the impact of teen pregnancy in the black community. This has generational implications but too often it is presented by cranky conservatives under the guise of a sort of moral failing within the black community or is roundly dismissed by snooty liberals as racism or worse. So both camps get to sit and stew comfortably in their own ideology and nothing changes. If you're 17 years old and black this country already makes life more difficult than it should for you. Why complicate things for yourself even more?
4
Was at Walmart the other day. I saw a black man and an Hispanic woman asked to show receipts as they left the store. When I left with my purchases, I simply got a "Have a good day, sir". Racism, whether intentional or not, is alive and well in Florida.
10
If someone wrote an article entitled "When blacks just don't get it", guess what would be said about it? Sorry, but I don't hate blacks and am not a self-hating white. What am I?
27
Thank you for this.
Each of us has a choice to take the conscious path. When our fellow humans are targeted because of skin color, that is injustice.
We can exist in chaos or awake to an enlightened cosmos.
Each of us has a choice to take the conscious path. When our fellow humans are targeted because of skin color, that is injustice.
We can exist in chaos or awake to an enlightened cosmos.
5
The titles of these articles are ridiculous - meant to degrade whites for centuries of racism. It started in the 1600's when this Country was founded, and continues to this day. Speak for yourself Mr. Kristof - it's easier said than done - but not the way you portray it. The social fabric of African Americans has changed dramatically since post World War II. The demographics speak for themselves - I believe the government had systemiatically created a welfare system this has contributed to the inequality we're seeing today. It's time to act - not with fancy diatribes like writers and politicians. Start providing acceptable housing, medical facilities and infrastructure improvements to the inner cities of America where the largest percentage of Afriacn Amercians live. Put a program and facilities in place to feed the approximately 18 million children that are hungry every day - a large percentage of which are African American. The Presidents and Congress have abandoned the inner cities and in doing so abandoned African Americans.
We need more transparency from the media - it's not just 'feelings' Mr. Kristol - it's homes, medicine, education and food for starters - being nice is fine - doing something to improve the lives of millions of Amercians is another.
We need more transparency from the media - it's not just 'feelings' Mr. Kristol - it's homes, medicine, education and food for starters - being nice is fine - doing something to improve the lives of millions of Amercians is another.
6
I live in small town that is 99 % white. We do not have any racial problems here. I see black/brown/other colors of folks shop here and no one even stares. This is in a town were staring is the pastime. And there are at 2 businesses here that are own by immigrants. One that owns the hotel are from India and there is restaurant that I am told is owned by a family from Pakistan.
Oh and by the way, I do not see any Trump/Pence signs in their front yards here. They may vote Trump but they are ashamed to admit it publically.
Oh and by the way, I do not see any Trump/Pence signs in their front yards here. They may vote Trump but they are ashamed to admit it publically.
5
I'm most likely going to get blasted for this but I feel compelled to point out the no human society has ever had perfect equality. Ruling classes establish themselves because when things are unequal, which is to say always, it's much nicer to be on top.
The only time historically that ruling classes voluntarily give up their power is when they lose confidence in their ability to rule.
There is some evidence that is happening now.
The only time historically that ruling classes voluntarily give up their power is when they lose confidence in their ability to rule.
There is some evidence that is happening now.
2
Kristof needs to point out that the one single cause of black poverty, at the root of nearly all black problems in America, is the extremely high illegitimacy rates among inner city blacks (currently over 70%). Eliminating this one problem will go far in improving the position of inner city blacks. Other problems include low graduation rates, high drug use and high crime. Needless to say Kristof does not even mention, like nearly all black community "leaders", any of these problem.
16
In 2016 in the United States of America a half-white by biological DNA genetic evolutionary fit nature and all white by cultural nurture man named Barack Hussein Obama is deemed and seen as all and only black African American.
3
Racism ... fraught with incongruities and ironies. Whites instinctively racist toward blacks? Average Asian incomes and wealth higher than all other races an example of Asian Privilege? Highest per capita spending on lowest academic performing school districts an example of inner city Black Privilege? The half century old War on Poverty in reality a war on tax payers? South Asian convenience store owners feel nervous toward young black male customers who in turn feel Asian immigrants are exploiting black neighborhoods, mutual racism? Is it only whites that are racist, or do all races have racist feelings toward all other races? Maybe an at least partial and temporary solution would be to simply stop harping about racism.
10
I think it's fair for people of all colors to look at the efforts of the last fifty years and ask: is doing more of the same thing going to improve race relations and bring equality in outcomes? It is fair to observe that race relations have gotten worse in the past few years, and not because of the prevailing, cartoonish view that whites have been permitted by Trump to release their innermost KKK sympathies (although there is some of that). It could be that the progressives are doing something that is making matters worse. But there is no open dialogue on race relations; to merely suggest that the political left might be out of ideas or worse is swiftly met by accusations of racism, intolerance and ignorance. There are a lot of perfectly admirable, intelligent conservatives who are deeply concerned about racial inequality and race relations. They may not like Trump, and that's their own fault for picking a lousy candidate, but their opposition to HRC does not make them racist. They might reasonably fear that another four years of the same progressive programs and cultural rhetoric could very well make matters worse.
4
Oh, for crying out loud. Couldn't you have included a trigger warning with that nonsense?
13
Liberals like Kristof just don't get it. Here is one reason:
Prove a Negative - "Researchers find this kind of unconscious bias almost everywhere." This is part of the new liberal thinking. It's one thing when we're talking about statutory racism like slavery (ended 150 yrs ago) or Jim Crow (ended 50 yrs ago). But since those wrongs have largely been removed, liberals point to invisible barriers to black success - rather than the obvious such as 29% dropout from high school and 72% of black children born to a single mother. This is consistent with Hillary's talk of "implicit bias".
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/440503/hillary-clinton-implicit-bi...
The problem with such a slight is that actual demonstration of racism is never proved ... it's simply assumed. And people need to prove their innocence. Consider "Disparate Impact" which forces companies to prove they aren't biased if the results statistically disfavor one group or another. HUD forces banks to donate to black groups like the Rainbow Coalition when more blacks are denied a mortgage. However, the answer may simply be more blacks have lower credit ratings.
Prove a Negative - "Researchers find this kind of unconscious bias almost everywhere." This is part of the new liberal thinking. It's one thing when we're talking about statutory racism like slavery (ended 150 yrs ago) or Jim Crow (ended 50 yrs ago). But since those wrongs have largely been removed, liberals point to invisible barriers to black success - rather than the obvious such as 29% dropout from high school and 72% of black children born to a single mother. This is consistent with Hillary's talk of "implicit bias".
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/440503/hillary-clinton-implicit-bi...
The problem with such a slight is that actual demonstration of racism is never proved ... it's simply assumed. And people need to prove their innocence. Consider "Disparate Impact" which forces companies to prove they aren't biased if the results statistically disfavor one group or another. HUD forces banks to donate to black groups like the Rainbow Coalition when more blacks are denied a mortgage. However, the answer may simply be more blacks have lower credit ratings.
11
Blacks want a better quality of life. They want fairness, justice, equal opportunity and access to education, housing and jobs. That's wonderful. Its good to have aspirations and healthy desires to achieve a better quality of life.
Sadly, though, no one just hands it to you unless you win the gene pool lottery and you're born into an intelligent, wealthy, educated and white privileged life right? Wrong.
There are more forces at work than just genes and luck. Part of what makes a person is environment, attitudes of family and community and also, personal commitment and self-responsibility. Being born into poverty doesn't mean you're doomed. It does mean disadvantage. Being black, hispanic, female or any other minority doesn't spell doom either.
When Whites Just Don't Get It, Part 7 raises an uncomfortable topic it misses the point. Kris, you honestly believe that "whites are in denial about racial inequalities". No we're not. We see what's going on every day. We know what's happening. We turn on TV and see the crime, violence, poverty and discrimination. We also drive past poverty pockets and devastated communities with dilapidated housing, crumbling schools and falling apart infrastructure.
The problem sir, is a Congress that has abdicated its responsibility. Its about Republican conservatives that won't pass legislation to help minorities, rebuild infrastructure or raise the taxes necessary to rebuild and improve schools.
White apathy and indifference is a myth.
Sadly, though, no one just hands it to you unless you win the gene pool lottery and you're born into an intelligent, wealthy, educated and white privileged life right? Wrong.
There are more forces at work than just genes and luck. Part of what makes a person is environment, attitudes of family and community and also, personal commitment and self-responsibility. Being born into poverty doesn't mean you're doomed. It does mean disadvantage. Being black, hispanic, female or any other minority doesn't spell doom either.
When Whites Just Don't Get It, Part 7 raises an uncomfortable topic it misses the point. Kris, you honestly believe that "whites are in denial about racial inequalities". No we're not. We see what's going on every day. We know what's happening. We turn on TV and see the crime, violence, poverty and discrimination. We also drive past poverty pockets and devastated communities with dilapidated housing, crumbling schools and falling apart infrastructure.
The problem sir, is a Congress that has abdicated its responsibility. Its about Republican conservatives that won't pass legislation to help minorities, rebuild infrastructure or raise the taxes necessary to rebuild and improve schools.
White apathy and indifference is a myth.
5
While I do "get" the article, and believe there is a strong bias in the US and elsewhere, I think you are reaching just a little in a couple of these examples:-
- when opioids were a black problem, social attitudes were a lot different than they are today. Society is more compassionate in general towards drug addicts, so it may be a little unfair to blame that entirely on race
- the education system problem could have been stated more simply by leaving out the race rerences: suburban children get a better public education than inner city kids do, and that is probably entirely because the budgets for inner city schools are much lower because the taxpayers whose children go to inner city schools pay much less tax. Because they are poorer. Yes, many (maybe even most) are poorer because they are black, but that's not really the same issue, is it?
- when opioids were a black problem, social attitudes were a lot different than they are today. Society is more compassionate in general towards drug addicts, so it may be a little unfair to blame that entirely on race
- the education system problem could have been stated more simply by leaving out the race rerences: suburban children get a better public education than inner city kids do, and that is probably entirely because the budgets for inner city schools are much lower because the taxpayers whose children go to inner city schools pay much less tax. Because they are poorer. Yes, many (maybe even most) are poorer because they are black, but that's not really the same issue, is it?
4
Forget the "guns and religion" statement that got Obama so much heat a few years back. These people are "clinging to their whiteness". Since the Civil War the lower class uneducated white could rely on society to reward that whiteness as a buffer against socialism. Since globalization pulled the employment rug out from under poor uneducated whites and the federal government did very little, primarily because of stinginess on the part of their own elected republicans, to help transition them anywhere except welfare, unemployment or minimum wage service jobs. I actually have begun to feel quite a lot of compassion for these Trump voters. They are right, they've been left behind in the global economy by our own government primarily. I think Hillary should, in the next debate, try to speak directly to them somehow, but that would require her to understand and own the failings of her neo liberal history. Sad really. For all of us.
4
"Supporters of Donald Trump are more likely than other voters to tell pollsters that blacks are “lazy,” “violent” and “unintelligent.” Four out of five Trump backers say that discrimination against whites is as big a problem as discrimination against blacks."
That must have been some poll in order to come up with the above "statistics." But then again it is The Economist - which "takes an editorial stance of classical and economic LIBERALISM which is SUPPORTIVE of FREE TRADE, GLOBILIZATION, FREE IMMIGRATION, and cultural liberalism." A completely UNBIASED source, right!
That must have been some poll in order to come up with the above "statistics." But then again it is The Economist - which "takes an editorial stance of classical and economic LIBERALISM which is SUPPORTIVE of FREE TRADE, GLOBILIZATION, FREE IMMIGRATION, and cultural liberalism." A completely UNBIASED source, right!
5
Great article! And it makes me glad I DON'T live in affluent, white suburbia but here in Paterson, where everyone gets along and neighbors look out for each other.
1
Great article by Kristof we need accept racism exist in suttle ways .Some in white race accepts any race when they are successful or educated,but we all are human we need accept all in the same way. Just thoughts thanks.
Ok Nick, I feel bad now. I'll feel better when you address Blacks. Tell them that racism will probably never be entirely eliminated so they have two choices. They can keep playing the victim, or they can get on with things.
All groups face some form of discrimination. We can argue that slavery was a unique experience -- and it was. And some of the predicament that Blacks find themselves in is residue from slavery and Jim Crow. Nevertheless, the biggest lever for eliminating inequality resides within the Black community.
As far as the sociological studies you cite. First, you didn't provide a link to the crosswalk study, but one wonders if the researchers controlled for race & sex of drivers. Perhaps the type of automobile. I know that in CT Mercedes and BMW drivers think they have some divine right of way, so who knows.
And as far as the business failure study - 2 points. Small N. There were 139 companies studied. 33 showed signs of discrimination, 106 didn't. 12 that showed discrimination went out of business, 18 of those that didn't went out of business. Higher % of discriminators, but....
And, we don't know why the companies went out of business. And we don't have other independent measure of discrimination in the 2004 study either. Nor do we know the race of the interviewer, etc. Interesting study, but methodologically weak. That's the problem with progressives, they wave around studies like these as if they are the gold standard. they are not.
All groups face some form of discrimination. We can argue that slavery was a unique experience -- and it was. And some of the predicament that Blacks find themselves in is residue from slavery and Jim Crow. Nevertheless, the biggest lever for eliminating inequality resides within the Black community.
As far as the sociological studies you cite. First, you didn't provide a link to the crosswalk study, but one wonders if the researchers controlled for race & sex of drivers. Perhaps the type of automobile. I know that in CT Mercedes and BMW drivers think they have some divine right of way, so who knows.
And as far as the business failure study - 2 points. Small N. There were 139 companies studied. 33 showed signs of discrimination, 106 didn't. 12 that showed discrimination went out of business, 18 of those that didn't went out of business. Higher % of discriminators, but....
And, we don't know why the companies went out of business. And we don't have other independent measure of discrimination in the 2004 study either. Nor do we know the race of the interviewer, etc. Interesting study, but methodologically weak. That's the problem with progressives, they wave around studies like these as if they are the gold standard. they are not.
6
These are really good points. I feel like I have reached an appropriate level of awareness and I have enough insight to realize that, in fact, I do make a point of not discriminating against anyone. At the same time as not discriminating, I also make it a point to recognize and validate where everyone is coming from (i.e.,, saying "we are all equal therefore you deserve no help from me" is incorrect.) So what we want here is both diversity + unity. Something I like to call "university"! It does that a conscious effort to maintain the level of awareness, up against lots of false messages daily. One thing we should know about putting people into categories is that there are subcategories. I am not only White, I have becomes a Good White. (And I love how White has become almost an underground designation these days, kind of edgy.) And you can too! Just start to be aware of how you might be mistreating or prejudging people, and you can make effective changes without at all letting the world go to rack and ruin -- in fact you'll make the world a better place. Don't be too hard on yourself! But you can do it.
2
You missed crucial factual context here: "Buck v. Davis involving a murderer named Duane Buck who was sentenced to death after “expert” testimony that he was more likely to commit violent crimes in the future because he was black. What can that be called but racism?"
It is being called incompetence. The case is not about racism. It is about denial of the 7th Amendment right to (competent) counsel because that race-sorting testimony came from the defendant's expert! Defendant's court-appointed lawyer knew the expert he chose had regularly cited race-violence statistics as having probative value regarding the future dangerousness of an individual. Correlation-as-fate: No way to decide the death penalty.
It is being called incompetence. The case is not about racism. It is about denial of the 7th Amendment right to (competent) counsel because that race-sorting testimony came from the defendant's expert! Defendant's court-appointed lawyer knew the expert he chose had regularly cited race-violence statistics as having probative value regarding the future dangerousness of an individual. Correlation-as-fate: No way to decide the death penalty.
2
Whites are not "in denial about racial inequalities", they don't care.
Income inequality is largely created by whites going to college, getting good jobs, making good money and being "Fifty-three Percenters" (federal income tax payers). Mr.Kristof and his fellow travelers seem to look on this behavior as racist.
Income inequality is largely created by whites going to college, getting good jobs, making good money and being "Fifty-three Percenters" (federal income tax payers). Mr.Kristof and his fellow travelers seem to look on this behavior as racist.
7
In point of fact each and every study you cited proves beyond a doubt that racial discrimination does not exist.
The appendix study showed that pain medication was given based upon reported levels of pain. That across the board every patient was given exactly the same pain medication and dosage for the same reported level of pain.
The academic discipline study showed that the level of punishment was identical regardless of race. It did show that black males were more likely to be repeat offenders, which exactly replicates the criminal justice system.
The resume study has long been discredited. Turns out the researchers were not submitting identical resumes. The "white" versions were submitted on expensive resume bond paper with perfect spelling and no grammatical errors.
The crosswalk study showed that white drivers yield the right of way five times more often than black drivers. White drivers yielded to black pedestrians 23 times more often than black drivers. So technically you are correct there is a crosswalk discrimination factor, against their own group.
What liberals don't get, or more accurately stated won't acknowledge, the stats used to warp your perception of reality are deliberately dishonest.
The appendix study showed that pain medication was given based upon reported levels of pain. That across the board every patient was given exactly the same pain medication and dosage for the same reported level of pain.
The academic discipline study showed that the level of punishment was identical regardless of race. It did show that black males were more likely to be repeat offenders, which exactly replicates the criminal justice system.
The resume study has long been discredited. Turns out the researchers were not submitting identical resumes. The "white" versions were submitted on expensive resume bond paper with perfect spelling and no grammatical errors.
The crosswalk study showed that white drivers yield the right of way five times more often than black drivers. White drivers yielded to black pedestrians 23 times more often than black drivers. So technically you are correct there is a crosswalk discrimination factor, against their own group.
What liberals don't get, or more accurately stated won't acknowledge, the stats used to warp your perception of reality are deliberately dishonest.
16
One can dare to hope that John Roberts and his extremist right wing cabal on SCOTUS, in considering the Buck V. Davis case, might contrive to make the connection between their deliberate gutting of the Voting Rights Act, since "racism no longer exists in this nation," and the unspeakably racist notion that Duane Buck was prone to violence because of the color of his skin. One can dare to hope, but I don't believe for an instant that they will make that connection - sitting, as they do, in their privileged halls of "justice", protected by their self-proclaimed 250 foot security perimeter, while they consign voters to the virulent prejudices of right wing red states intent upon suppressing the votes by anyone of color; or women with limited financial means to the screaming harangues and threats by extremist white Christians who seek to impose their religious views upon everyone else seeking reproductive health services; and so on. Those with the greatest economic security are largely impervious to the struggles of the rest of us. Those already on the margins tend to blame those just below them for their travails, and act accordingly. We are still a profoundly racist and sexist nation, and the sooner we address these inequities, the better off we shall all be.
4
Personal responsibility is easier to exercise if other people respect you. That applies for girls as well as people of color.
7
"If Donald Trump wants to make this election in part about race"
Nicholas, you made the mistake of thinking that Trump is a racist. He may be, but that's not behind his statements. To him, the race is only about himself. He will say the most outlandish things so that he can identify with the voters he thinks he has the best chance of attracting. Intelligent, well-informed, rational voters flee him with all possible haste. Disaffected, low-income, uneducated whites are traditionally racist, and he sees them as his base. So, he makes racist statements to appeal to them.
That is, of course, a disgusting, exploitative campaign tactic. And it will backfire on him because there aren't enough racists in the base to support a victory. But his racist statements are only one factor in the huge steaming pile of ills that is Trump. There are many others to pick from. That one candidate can be so grossly, manifestly composed of so many defects is unimaginable. But there he is - Trump, the man of stupid. And his supporters love him, because they think he IS them. But they are in for a rude awakening if he actually wins.
Nicholas, you made the mistake of thinking that Trump is a racist. He may be, but that's not behind his statements. To him, the race is only about himself. He will say the most outlandish things so that he can identify with the voters he thinks he has the best chance of attracting. Intelligent, well-informed, rational voters flee him with all possible haste. Disaffected, low-income, uneducated whites are traditionally racist, and he sees them as his base. So, he makes racist statements to appeal to them.
That is, of course, a disgusting, exploitative campaign tactic. And it will backfire on him because there aren't enough racists in the base to support a victory. But his racist statements are only one factor in the huge steaming pile of ills that is Trump. There are many others to pick from. That one candidate can be so grossly, manifestly composed of so many defects is unimaginable. But there he is - Trump, the man of stupid. And his supporters love him, because they think he IS them. But they are in for a rude awakening if he actually wins.
41
Sorry Mr. Kristof, whites do indeed get it. We get it every single day. We get it when we turn on the news and blacks are killed within their own communities by other blacks. We get it when we see blacks incarcerated unjustly because of Bill Clinton's signature legislation. We get it when we chose to move into white only gated communities. We get it in the workplace when blacks are prevented from aspiring to better positions and a better life. Yes, we get it. We get it that 72% of black children are born to single parents. We know all this.
We also get it when whites can't find jobs in the factories and industries destroyed by NAFTA and other free trade agreements. We get it when our children find that they must literally fear blacks because of the violence and crime that we see everyday in the news. Or when we see blacks rioting and raging. We get it when we too are afraid. We get it when black kids see school as "uncool". And we get it when we see the devastation of drugs on blacks and whites too.
We get it when Republicans oppose rebuilding schools, roads and infrastructure that destroy both black and white communities. We get all of it.
The presidential campaign is very much about race and racism. I'm not a delusional white man. I am though, disillusioned. I'm tired, sick and tired of being blamed for the plight of blacks.
I want to be safe and free from fear of black violence. That is not racism. I want to live with whites. That is not racist either.
We also get it when whites can't find jobs in the factories and industries destroyed by NAFTA and other free trade agreements. We get it when our children find that they must literally fear blacks because of the violence and crime that we see everyday in the news. Or when we see blacks rioting and raging. We get it when we too are afraid. We get it when black kids see school as "uncool". And we get it when we see the devastation of drugs on blacks and whites too.
We get it when Republicans oppose rebuilding schools, roads and infrastructure that destroy both black and white communities. We get all of it.
The presidential campaign is very much about race and racism. I'm not a delusional white man. I am though, disillusioned. I'm tired, sick and tired of being blamed for the plight of blacks.
I want to be safe and free from fear of black violence. That is not racism. I want to live with whites. That is not racist either.
13
Thank you, Nick Kristoff.
Yes there is racism, but the events that spawned this rediscovered appreciation for the problem, police shootings, cannot all be blamed on racism when a significant number of policemen and city officials of the cities involved in the shootings are also black. This isn’t racism, it is the fear of violent crime. The violent crime is not only the primary reason for the reaction of police officers in the street, it is the reason for white as well as black flight, which has resulted in concentrated, chronic poverty in many neighborhoods. The flight has undercut the tax base impacting all aspects of the community including transportation and schools. The crime has also resulted in many businesses choosing to relocate.
One doesn't have to solve the problem of poverty in order to address the violent crime problem, especially the firearm homicides, but there does need to be a comprehensive set of programs in place to address the crime for the benefit of all. The violent crime is being committed by a small number of people in each neighborhood, and once they are dealt with others will not feel the need to arm themselves for protection.
The racism in this problem is that country has become focused on mass shootings, and has chosen to ignore the daily toll in the low income minority neighborhoods across the country.
One doesn't have to solve the problem of poverty in order to address the violent crime problem, especially the firearm homicides, but there does need to be a comprehensive set of programs in place to address the crime for the benefit of all. The violent crime is being committed by a small number of people in each neighborhood, and once they are dealt with others will not feel the need to arm themselves for protection.
The racism in this problem is that country has become focused on mass shootings, and has chosen to ignore the daily toll in the low income minority neighborhoods across the country.
3
How about "When people just don't get it"? Get over the pigment thing. Sheriff David Clark in Milwaukee is black and he spouts the same nonsense as the "whites" you refer to. How about other ethnicities? Do you think that maybe some people of all ethnic backgrounds are guilty of cheap stereotyping and racism? This is not a whites against blacks issue.
6
You cite a study about pedestrians and bias while crossing the street Mr. Kristof. Did you read what you wrote? The number of participants were 6: 3 black, 3 white. This provides enormous challenges for a study, even if they crossed the street thousands of times; as a side note, it would have been nice if you provided a link to the article. For instance, what if the three black people displayed different non-verbal cues than the white individuals? What if they were dressed differently? Where they blinded to the research goals of the study? These are just basic questions that can become huge factors in such a small study.
This is why many highly intelligent people, specifically from STEM fields and not the humanities, can't take Social Justice Warriors and Identity Politics seriously. The studies you and your allies cite are often low powered, at best level 4 studies, often un-replicated, and underscored with significant bias in design from the researchers.
This is why many highly intelligent people, specifically from STEM fields and not the humanities, can't take Social Justice Warriors and Identity Politics seriously. The studies you and your allies cite are often low powered, at best level 4 studies, often un-replicated, and underscored with significant bias in design from the researchers.
15
I am a huge fan of Nick's. He is a brave and clear-eyed surveyor of global inequality and attendant suffering. However, this series about us whites not "getting it" is grating. I am very much aware of my implicit bias; I'd go so far as to admit that I might be less likely to screech to a stop for a black person in a crosswalk, although I hope not.
I just hate being clumped in with those white people whose implicit bias strolls hand in hand with their white supremacist, overt, and unapologetic racism. We are very different in our perceptions, our treatment of our fellow human beings, our choice of words, our voting patterns, and, most importantly, in how we raise our children.
I don't want a ribbon or a medal for any of these behaviors. I do want acknowledgement that my conscious behavior over a lifetime is more important than the stuff I'm not conscious of and can often do little about.
I just hate being clumped in with those white people whose implicit bias strolls hand in hand with their white supremacist, overt, and unapologetic racism. We are very different in our perceptions, our treatment of our fellow human beings, our choice of words, our voting patterns, and, most importantly, in how we raise our children.
I don't want a ribbon or a medal for any of these behaviors. I do want acknowledgement that my conscious behavior over a lifetime is more important than the stuff I'm not conscious of and can often do little about.
5
Many whites perceive themselves as not prejudiced However their prejudice reveals itself with their pocketbook. In my experience living in several communities over several decades I have seen how whites respond once one or two black families move into their neighborhood, they move out citing needing more space, or better schools. Privately they reveal they are worried about neighborhood decline, reduced property values and fear of increased crime before any of it occurs if ever.
"[L]et’s really talk about race problems in all their complexities." this editorial says. But it doesn't.
A portion of what is dismisses as "bias" against blacks, is statistically justified bias. For example, a 2011 U.S. Justice Department report on murder statistics showed that blacks have seven times the per capita murder rate of whites. Thus, if the only thing you know about someone is that they are black, you have a valid mathematical reason for thinking they are seven times as likely to be murderous than if they were white. Such probabilistic reasoning is what is powering the rise of machine intelligence, and much of human intelligence depends on it.
But, of course, the best reasoning when trying to judge an individual is that which is based on their individual traits, not their race. For example, I voted for Barack Obama twice, not because he was black, but because from listening to him and his proposals I though he was the better candidate -- and I am a Republican.
Failing to recognize the validity of statitistical reasoning as it relates to crime, other behavioral pathologies, and low IQ hurts blacks more than it hurts whites. It does because it prevents honest and proportionate discussion of the major problems hurting the black population and of how to best fix them.
A portion of what is dismisses as "bias" against blacks, is statistically justified bias. For example, a 2011 U.S. Justice Department report on murder statistics showed that blacks have seven times the per capita murder rate of whites. Thus, if the only thing you know about someone is that they are black, you have a valid mathematical reason for thinking they are seven times as likely to be murderous than if they were white. Such probabilistic reasoning is what is powering the rise of machine intelligence, and much of human intelligence depends on it.
But, of course, the best reasoning when trying to judge an individual is that which is based on their individual traits, not their race. For example, I voted for Barack Obama twice, not because he was black, but because from listening to him and his proposals I though he was the better candidate -- and I am a Republican.
Failing to recognize the validity of statitistical reasoning as it relates to crime, other behavioral pathologies, and low IQ hurts blacks more than it hurts whites. It does because it prevents honest and proportionate discussion of the major problems hurting the black population and of how to best fix them.
5
Mr Kristof, the fact that whites who support Donald Trump may be fools does not mean ipso facto that they are racists.
3
After my career as a stay-at-home mom, I chose to return to my first career as a public school teacher. Luckily for me, although I didn't originally seek this, I landed a job in an inner city school in one of our largest cities. I was raised in my southern part of the country to think kindly and sympathetically of blacks. I wasn't aware of my biases. Strangely to me, I was called 'blond hair, blue eyes from the suburbs' by one principal when I was going to bat for a small boy who had disciplinary problems. It took me two years of working side by side with these people on a daily basis, however, to realize that I did not understand black culture in any meaningful way. The black people seemed to understand and accept me right away (with the exception of the one principal). I learned from them. They have walked through fire - still do - and they have 'overcome.' The character strength of so many of these men and women puts the rest of us to shame. How grateful I am to have had this in-depth experience. It was a life changer for me. I agree that often, even very well-meaning whites 'just don't get it.'
13
Let ME start with an uncomfortable topic - is there a reputable African American journalist who can write a counterpoint to this article as to how and why the African American community doesn't get it either?! You make the issues of racism sound like it is a white male perpetuated evil of society, when in fact it is a multifaceted issue in which no race is broadly entitled to take the moral high ground for perpetuating what is at its core a blight on our society.
29
Very poorly titled article and series. Condescending, disdainful and a sure winner for making people skip it.
35
Dear sbmd:
Your critique says more about you than you may realize. I think it is a provocative headline to be sure, and designed purposefully to get your attention, which I see it has.
Just as Trump took Hillary's bait and proceeded to gobble it up hook, line and sinker so has the reader who finds fault with this piece. Condescending and disdainful are indeed harsh descriptions you use. Painting with such a broad brush suggests thou protests too much. I found the author hit the proverbial nail on the head. Of course it does state that Whites won't "get it". Obviously, in your case, he is correct is his assessment.
DD
Manhattan
Your critique says more about you than you may realize. I think it is a provocative headline to be sure, and designed purposefully to get your attention, which I see it has.
Just as Trump took Hillary's bait and proceeded to gobble it up hook, line and sinker so has the reader who finds fault with this piece. Condescending and disdainful are indeed harsh descriptions you use. Painting with such a broad brush suggests thou protests too much. I found the author hit the proverbial nail on the head. Of course it does state that Whites won't "get it". Obviously, in your case, he is correct is his assessment.
DD
Manhattan
2
@ sbmd - Yes the plain truth and not about "race" but racism, one kind only.
Perhaps, but completely true and factual.
1
Mr. Kristoff, perhaps you'll discuss in part 8 why you freely choose to live in affluent deeply segregated suburb.
46
Editors: Please discard the earlier post on this topic; the bottom section of that post should not have been included. Below, is what I intended to submit. Thanks.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course there is some division by race in the US, as there are also divisions by other characteristics. It is a universal truth that in any society, one group will be dominant. Since the founding of the US, Whites have been dominant, but not just any Whites, but Anglo Whites.
But even with this White dominance, there are millions of Blacks who have fared better and are faring better than millions of members of the dominant class. This may be because these better-off Blacks put in the hard work and the effort, or, because the the dominant class, in an attempt to right past wrongs, created programs to benefit Blacks.
Perhaps it is time to stop talking about race, because if Blacks were dominant, Mr. Kristof would have been Black, Mr. Trump would have been Black and his Black supporters would find Whites as lazy and as whiners.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course there is some division by race in the US, as there are also divisions by other characteristics. It is a universal truth that in any society, one group will be dominant. Since the founding of the US, Whites have been dominant, but not just any Whites, but Anglo Whites.
But even with this White dominance, there are millions of Blacks who have fared better and are faring better than millions of members of the dominant class. This may be because these better-off Blacks put in the hard work and the effort, or, because the the dominant class, in an attempt to right past wrongs, created programs to benefit Blacks.
Perhaps it is time to stop talking about race, because if Blacks were dominant, Mr. Kristof would have been Black, Mr. Trump would have been Black and his Black supporters would find Whites as lazy and as whiners.
5
Blacks are between Scylla and Charybdis. When their voices are heard, they often say things whites don't like, which generates hostility. When they're silent, they lack political power.
Few people see the past in the present, but because of the past blacks find themselves impoverished and disempowered. Racism has conditioned whites to see black problems as one of natural deficiencies rather than one of historical oppression. Many whites think that it's bad choices causing perpetuation of black social pathologies, others that it's their poverty and the racist system, which entraps them. Welfare inevitably brings dependency, and whites feel like they're being forced to pay for a non-solution to a problem they didn't create, hence the resentment.
Sustainable progress for blacks means investment, jobs, education. I agree with Clinton: Changing hearts matters, but changing policy matters more. We cannot blame whites for not "getting it." And it's counterproductive to go around saying, "bigot!" Bigotry is often inherited and difficult to escape from. The past has effected the oppressors as much as the oppressed.
Our goal should be black flourishing. And that will take a long time, maybe another century. Yes, achieving this goal would be easier in the absence of racism, but that's unrealistic. Some say whites fear losing their place atop the hierarchy. This seems wrong. The more blacks thrive, perhaps, the less social problems they will have and the more racism will subside.
Few people see the past in the present, but because of the past blacks find themselves impoverished and disempowered. Racism has conditioned whites to see black problems as one of natural deficiencies rather than one of historical oppression. Many whites think that it's bad choices causing perpetuation of black social pathologies, others that it's their poverty and the racist system, which entraps them. Welfare inevitably brings dependency, and whites feel like they're being forced to pay for a non-solution to a problem they didn't create, hence the resentment.
Sustainable progress for blacks means investment, jobs, education. I agree with Clinton: Changing hearts matters, but changing policy matters more. We cannot blame whites for not "getting it." And it's counterproductive to go around saying, "bigot!" Bigotry is often inherited and difficult to escape from. The past has effected the oppressors as much as the oppressed.
Our goal should be black flourishing. And that will take a long time, maybe another century. Yes, achieving this goal would be easier in the absence of racism, but that's unrealistic. Some say whites fear losing their place atop the hierarchy. This seems wrong. The more blacks thrive, perhaps, the less social problems they will have and the more racism will subside.
4
All Americans should simply consider this;
If you had a heart attack right now, where on deaths door, and a person of any race, creed or color ran up to you to you and said, “Hey, I can help you.” Are you going to say, “No! Don’t touch me you’re the wrong color!” Or, “No don’t touch me your gay or believe in abortion!”
Of course you would not. You’re dying. You don’t care what color that person is if they are giving you help. Even the worst offenders of prejudice would not even care about such prejudices when it comes to saving their own lives, and that right there is where we need to start…all Americans. If we did that, we’d all be a much great people and nation.
So anyone who is prejudice, remember that when that black, Hispanic, Chinese, or even white person comes to your aid. After all, prejudice is not just limited to Caucasians. So when you interact with anyone, always remember, if you were dying, would you except their help, and if so, why not drop the barriers altogether and realize we are all Americans first and in this beautiful life together! You don’t need to be dying to realize this simple fact. So practice it while you’re alive and well now!
If you had a heart attack right now, where on deaths door, and a person of any race, creed or color ran up to you to you and said, “Hey, I can help you.” Are you going to say, “No! Don’t touch me you’re the wrong color!” Or, “No don’t touch me your gay or believe in abortion!”
Of course you would not. You’re dying. You don’t care what color that person is if they are giving you help. Even the worst offenders of prejudice would not even care about such prejudices when it comes to saving their own lives, and that right there is where we need to start…all Americans. If we did that, we’d all be a much great people and nation.
So anyone who is prejudice, remember that when that black, Hispanic, Chinese, or even white person comes to your aid. After all, prejudice is not just limited to Caucasians. So when you interact with anyone, always remember, if you were dying, would you except their help, and if so, why not drop the barriers altogether and realize we are all Americans first and in this beautiful life together! You don’t need to be dying to realize this simple fact. So practice it while you’re alive and well now!
5
What I find most interesting about Kristof's "studies" is they all have predetermined outcomes. Someone comes to a conclusion and then looks for evidence to support it while ignoring facts contradictory to the conclusion.
27
Nick,-- I have a challenge for you (and the NYT) -- go work as a police officer - as an on-the-beat cop in a black neighborhood for about two months. Perhaps one of your colleagues can work as a teacher for one term in a predominantly black school. Maybe -- to get a really clear picture of these issues -- how about actually living in an inner city black community for a few months. I am absolutely sure this will be an extremely enlightening experience. I am also sure that you and your esteemed colleagues will never do this. The reality is that it is probably safer to be "embedded" in a war zone in the Middle East than it is to live in some "inner city" communities.
35
And you "know" this how? I miss the good old days when people had the courage of their convictions. Racists were proud of their "superiority", and didn't need dog whistles to openly promote their beliefs. If tRump has done anything of value, he has revealed the true breadth of racism in America. Maureen, show some courage, own your bigotry.
1
Dear Mr. Bruni,
Perhaps America is afraid to 'address' the race problem because it won't like the answers it gets.
Perhaps the problem really is that the races will never get along. Throughout history, especially as so called "Western Civilization" started it's march to domination, white, European based people have always held those of color in contempt. Even our own Civil War had little to do with abolishing slavery but, rather, "what do we do with the black folks now"? Lincoln wanted to deport them, the draftees in New York City rioted against fighting for black people killing and lynching several in the process and the American South is still fighting ANY kind of integration.
Is it just possible, as I write from an almost completely lily white suburb of Hartford, that the races will never , as Mr. Rodney King pleaded for, "just get along with each other"?
History tells me that your column should probably be entitled, "Why White Folks Will Never Get It" a very scary thought coupled with the "Rise of Trump" and his large horde of followers, 40% of the voting public, at least, in each poll.
Mr. Obama merely brought the hidden America to the surface and it's not very pretty and, judging by the numbers, even if Trump, loses is not going away.
Perhaps America is afraid to 'address' the race problem because it won't like the answers it gets.
Perhaps the problem really is that the races will never get along. Throughout history, especially as so called "Western Civilization" started it's march to domination, white, European based people have always held those of color in contempt. Even our own Civil War had little to do with abolishing slavery but, rather, "what do we do with the black folks now"? Lincoln wanted to deport them, the draftees in New York City rioted against fighting for black people killing and lynching several in the process and the American South is still fighting ANY kind of integration.
Is it just possible, as I write from an almost completely lily white suburb of Hartford, that the races will never , as Mr. Rodney King pleaded for, "just get along with each other"?
History tells me that your column should probably be entitled, "Why White Folks Will Never Get It" a very scary thought coupled with the "Rise of Trump" and his large horde of followers, 40% of the voting public, at least, in each poll.
Mr. Obama merely brought the hidden America to the surface and it's not very pretty and, judging by the numbers, even if Trump, loses is not going away.
5
Dear Mr. R.A. Petro:
Getting along with a diverse populace may be found using this as a key: propinquity. The advantage of being around people who are different, to interact with, to associate with and become friendly with, however you may mark your cultural diversity, is of such profound importance it cannot be understated.
Here in NYC we are lucky to be "forced" to live with those differences whether we want to or not. They come with the territory literally of living in one of the greatest of world capitals.
That of course is not possible in many areas of our country, especially outside our greater metropolitan centers, and even then some urban areas are not designed as densely as ours. They rely heavily on the motor car as a means to get around, and thus remain isolated from one's neighbors even while traveling among them. In fact, those areas can lead to something worse, road rage, the anonymity of one's vehicle providing a sense of false "courage" to attack the person riding the road with you because of some slight, intended or not, they paid you.
We who live in a natural habitat of close proximity, who are far more interdependent on one another than folks living in sprawling communities, are, like urban jungle anthropologists, able to observe a myriad of human behavior, coming to more fully appreciate that we human animals are so much more alike than not.
DD
Manhattan
Getting along with a diverse populace may be found using this as a key: propinquity. The advantage of being around people who are different, to interact with, to associate with and become friendly with, however you may mark your cultural diversity, is of such profound importance it cannot be understated.
Here in NYC we are lucky to be "forced" to live with those differences whether we want to or not. They come with the territory literally of living in one of the greatest of world capitals.
That of course is not possible in many areas of our country, especially outside our greater metropolitan centers, and even then some urban areas are not designed as densely as ours. They rely heavily on the motor car as a means to get around, and thus remain isolated from one's neighbors even while traveling among them. In fact, those areas can lead to something worse, road rage, the anonymity of one's vehicle providing a sense of false "courage" to attack the person riding the road with you because of some slight, intended or not, they paid you.
We who live in a natural habitat of close proximity, who are far more interdependent on one another than folks living in sprawling communities, are, like urban jungle anthropologists, able to observe a myriad of human behavior, coming to more fully appreciate that we human animals are so much more alike than not.
DD
Manhattan
The only whites that point fingers any more are self-righteous, wealthy, older baby boomers, like Kristof. They are quick to blame whites for the failures of blacks, as though we have complete control over their lives, as well as our own. His tone is condescending and crazy making. Trump is a moron and hard to listen to, but this constant chiding (relentless shaming) is worse.
31
There are also fact based racial differences which contribute to statistically relevant differences in behavior which while they may be greatly exacerbated by environmental prejudices are not soley caused by them. Our inability to have open and honest conversations about tribal differences when it comes to those with African roots leaves us with a warped set of grievances that inevitably drive repeatedly ineffective solutions.
We should celebrate these racial differences, understand their implications, and craft solutions that honor those differences, not attempt to 'white wash' them to fit our preconceived notions of racial hegemony.
We are all different, and we all belong to varying levels of pooled DNA that drive attributes that must be respected.
African Americans ARE different. Thank God!
We should celebrate these racial differences, understand their implications, and craft solutions that honor those differences, not attempt to 'white wash' them to fit our preconceived notions of racial hegemony.
We are all different, and we all belong to varying levels of pooled DNA that drive attributes that must be respected.
African Americans ARE different. Thank God!
2
You're SURE about this? Why the certainty? You seem to believe that, for sure, genetic differences drive racial disparities, yet you haven't presented a shred of proof or evidence, and it's hard to design a study that isolates for genetics given the legacy of legally and culturally enforced white supremacy pushing down like a boot on the neck of African Americans for hundreds of years in America. But even, hypothetically, if you ARE correct in your theory of genetic racial disparities, I don't see how that would drive policy, because as African Americans, we (and yes, I'm African American) are highly individual in our talents, interests, and outlook on life, so whatever "solutions" that you would "craft" to "honor" alleged "tribal differences" would end up painting with far to broad a brush. I can guarantee you, for example, that any solution crafted to address the dysfunctionality in inner city communities would have zero applicability to me and my family.
1
"Many whites object that race gaps are the result of irresponsible behavior by blacks themselves, such as teenage girls’ having babies. Sure, self-destructive behaviors are a strand of poverty (of every complexion), but blacks are cleareyed about this: 86 percent of blacks say that family breakup is a reason for difficulties of African-Americans today."
That statement glosses over the overwhelming impact of 72% of black females that have children out of wedlock. Blacks are not "clear-eyed" about this great tragedy. When 72% of blacks are born to single mothers there needs to be a great cry acknowledging that that action is the great singular pillar of poverty and "difficulties of African-Americans today."
So great is the problem that it dooms millions of children to a life time cycle of poverty, ignorance from lack of education and drug abuse. Worst of all the role of male role models is totally extinguished. A strong male figure in a black family's lives is too great to write off as a "difficulty".
That is not the responsibility or uncaring of whites. No matter how many times Hillary and Donald look in the mirror they will not solve the problems of blacks.
Hillary too has greatly contributed to incarceration of young blacks and destruction of black families in two ways. She supported NAFTA destroying millions of jobs, factories, industries and communities across the U.S. And she supported criminal legislation that has eviscerated black communities.
Donald is racist?
That statement glosses over the overwhelming impact of 72% of black females that have children out of wedlock. Blacks are not "clear-eyed" about this great tragedy. When 72% of blacks are born to single mothers there needs to be a great cry acknowledging that that action is the great singular pillar of poverty and "difficulties of African-Americans today."
So great is the problem that it dooms millions of children to a life time cycle of poverty, ignorance from lack of education and drug abuse. Worst of all the role of male role models is totally extinguished. A strong male figure in a black family's lives is too great to write off as a "difficulty".
That is not the responsibility or uncaring of whites. No matter how many times Hillary and Donald look in the mirror they will not solve the problems of blacks.
Hillary too has greatly contributed to incarceration of young blacks and destruction of black families in two ways. She supported NAFTA destroying millions of jobs, factories, industries and communities across the U.S. And she supported criminal legislation that has eviscerated black communities.
Donald is racist?
19
Nicholas, sitting in the NY Times with your friends, you obviously are out of touch with the rest of the country.
The reason that HRC will lose this election, and I say this as someone who has voted a straight Democratic ticket for my entire life, is that she is one of the most reviled, flawed candidates in years.
The fact that she is about to lose to a demagogue, racist and moron, is pathetic.
The only honorable thing to do, which I and many other millions will do, is to vote our conscience.
As the Chicago Tribune wrote a few days ago in endorsing Gov Gary Johnson, we must reject both of these imposters and vote for and not against someone.
And that is why Gov Johnson will truly make history this year.
With all the recent slamming of him in the media our numbers have risen more than ever as the 70% of Americans who never heard of him begin to learn more.
Here are videos of his daily rallies, etc. He is on national TV daily.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GaryJohnson/comments/54avt7/full_gary_johnson_m...
The reason that HRC will lose this election, and I say this as someone who has voted a straight Democratic ticket for my entire life, is that she is one of the most reviled, flawed candidates in years.
The fact that she is about to lose to a demagogue, racist and moron, is pathetic.
The only honorable thing to do, which I and many other millions will do, is to vote our conscience.
As the Chicago Tribune wrote a few days ago in endorsing Gov Gary Johnson, we must reject both of these imposters and vote for and not against someone.
And that is why Gov Johnson will truly make history this year.
With all the recent slamming of him in the media our numbers have risen more than ever as the 70% of Americans who never heard of him begin to learn more.
Here are videos of his daily rallies, etc. He is on national TV daily.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GaryJohnson/comments/54avt7/full_gary_johnson_m...
8
You sir, are as stupid as Johnson (sure, I'll have some Aleppo on my pizza)
Contrary to Mr. Kristof glibe assumption that "whites don't get it" is the fact that we do get what this fuss is all about. It is about the "GREEN"(money) ,not the white/black (racism). it's all about playing on white "guilt" to shake the money tree...lol.
15
You're right on the money, WD. Notice which party shook the most money out of the tree in September.
3
The fact that racism continues to exist in America is without doubt. That is the starting point in any discussion about race. Running a close second is the fact that attitudes about race have changed enormously over the past 30 years or so. "Lilly white" ain't so Lilly white anyone. Blacks, whites and Latinos are commingling like never before. Intermarriage, interracial relationships forged in the work place, and a plethora of other social settings are more integrated than ever before. Just as important, ignorant racial stereotypes that once were common in the white community have all but vanished.
In spite of the above noted we see greater racial anamis coming from the black community. "White privilege", "cultural appropriation", "micro-aggression" "dog whistles" are just a few of the terms used to attach racism to just about every aspect of white life and culture. That, along with widely used distortions of fact that are bandied about to support certain racial narratives, have seriously damaged our chances to improve the lot of our country,
As someone who has always been committed to righting wrongs and standing up boldly against injustice I must admit that I've just about had it. I refuse to participate in a social movement that demonizes the struggles and accomplishments of my parents and grandparents, claims that what I have achieved in life was ill-gotten, and condemns my children and grandchildren in virtue of their skin color. Count me out of that game.
In spite of the above noted we see greater racial anamis coming from the black community. "White privilege", "cultural appropriation", "micro-aggression" "dog whistles" are just a few of the terms used to attach racism to just about every aspect of white life and culture. That, along with widely used distortions of fact that are bandied about to support certain racial narratives, have seriously damaged our chances to improve the lot of our country,
As someone who has always been committed to righting wrongs and standing up boldly against injustice I must admit that I've just about had it. I refuse to participate in a social movement that demonizes the struggles and accomplishments of my parents and grandparents, claims that what I have achieved in life was ill-gotten, and condemns my children and grandchildren in virtue of their skin color. Count me out of that game.
15
The Editorial Board of the New York Times is leading the parade that denigrates White Establishment and all of the crimes against humanity that it has perpetrated on civilization.
2
“When opioids were primarily a black problem, America’s instinct was harsh prison sentences; now that it is mainly a white problem, we’re more compassionate and are improving treatment programs.”
Disclaimer: I am white and from Mississippi.
The sentence above quoted from the opinion column underscores the exact double standard we have in America. Addiction to opioids by blacks means “those people” are degenerates, with no moral or family values and treatment is in the form of the criminal justice system.
Addiction by whites to opioids miraculously transforms the “social” problem into a “medical” problem: it is an “epidemic”. More to the point the treatment regimen is not incarceration; rather it is tax and insurance dollars to pay for the treatment….no questions asked.
White America needs to wake up and quit whining….if necessary, move to a locale where there are jobs and adhere to the “moral and family” values that they righteously impose on others.
Disclaimer: I am white and from Mississippi.
The sentence above quoted from the opinion column underscores the exact double standard we have in America. Addiction to opioids by blacks means “those people” are degenerates, with no moral or family values and treatment is in the form of the criminal justice system.
Addiction by whites to opioids miraculously transforms the “social” problem into a “medical” problem: it is an “epidemic”. More to the point the treatment regimen is not incarceration; rather it is tax and insurance dollars to pay for the treatment….no questions asked.
White America needs to wake up and quit whining….if necessary, move to a locale where there are jobs and adhere to the “moral and family” values that they righteously impose on others.
3
"White America needs to wake up and quit whining" -Allen82
After reading this series on racism it's readily apparent that Kristoff's 'black America' is doing the whining. Kristoff cherry-picks examples to justify his race-baiting agenda. This series will undoubtedly cause more (justified) resentment from whites than it will heal.
After reading this series on racism it's readily apparent that Kristoff's 'black America' is doing the whining. Kristoff cherry-picks examples to justify his race-baiting agenda. This series will undoubtedly cause more (justified) resentment from whites than it will heal.
5
This is offensive nonsense. The narcissistic psychodrama of burning sage, harassing passersbys, attacking police, looting, and astronomical crime rates make whites distrust some blacks despite their best intentions -- the white people's intentions.
Unlike our precious Nicholas, I spent 20 years in downtown Atlanta. Often working at night and taking public transportation, living in a bad neighborhood, and providing social services to black people living off the rest of us by choice, I saw the gamut of violence, depraved abandonment and abuse of children, sexual agressiveness, demands to be supported by others, welfare fraud, racism against whites, learned helplessness, and astonishing and virtually universal graft and fraud by black leaders.
The poor black community needs to get its act together, stop taking our families' money as a life plan, stop being so corrupt in its politics, stop harming themselves and others, raise their own darn kids, and stop being so violent and threatening.
They need to grow up.
Unlike our precious Nicholas, I spent 20 years in downtown Atlanta. Often working at night and taking public transportation, living in a bad neighborhood, and providing social services to black people living off the rest of us by choice, I saw the gamut of violence, depraved abandonment and abuse of children, sexual agressiveness, demands to be supported by others, welfare fraud, racism against whites, learned helplessness, and astonishing and virtually universal graft and fraud by black leaders.
The poor black community needs to get its act together, stop taking our families' money as a life plan, stop being so corrupt in its politics, stop harming themselves and others, raise their own darn kids, and stop being so violent and threatening.
They need to grow up.
31
These clever college studies that take a handful of people and supposedly defines everyone have been around for a while. Were these studies done in black neighborhoods? My personal survey based on my own observation is blacks don't use crosswalks, use the streets as side walks and cross where and whenever they want and expect you to stop for them. Check the accident statistics and take whatever social implication you need from them.
Nonsense right? Some times it's better to fight nonsense with even more nonsense?
Nonsense right? Some times it's better to fight nonsense with even more nonsense?
15
It's called accounting for bias, Ace. Your third grade feelings are clearly driving your opinions.
1
"A black male baby born today, if we do not change the system, stands a 1 in 3 chance ending up in jail. This is an unspeakable tragedy.”
— Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), interview on “Charlie Rose,” June 11, 2015.
So - if you meet a random group of young Black men - what can you hypothesize?
Let's quote Jesse Jackson: "There is nothing more painful to me … than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved."
— Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), interview on “Charlie Rose,” June 11, 2015.
So - if you meet a random group of young Black men - what can you hypothesize?
Let's quote Jesse Jackson: "There is nothing more painful to me … than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved."
19
So, what's your point? That the country should enact laws based on fear rather than logic? Your post is obviously unencumbered by the thought process.
1
Yet all these racists vote in a very large percentage. Minorities need to realize the power of their vote.
We only keep talking about racists because they are perpetually taught by their daddies to hate. Hate is taught.
For Racism to die out, it 1st needs to never be voted in and then it needs to be systematically rooted out.
And it ain't only racism, it is all forms of intolerance that are taught by daddies who are either too ignorant or too angry, either of which is a terrible motivator. The racists have gotten so good at defending the indefensible, that they use simple slogans to fire up support "anti PC","anti immigrant". These dog whistles have been with us since racism has been with us - forever.
We only keep talking about racists because they are perpetually taught by their daddies to hate. Hate is taught.
For Racism to die out, it 1st needs to never be voted in and then it needs to be systematically rooted out.
And it ain't only racism, it is all forms of intolerance that are taught by daddies who are either too ignorant or too angry, either of which is a terrible motivator. The racists have gotten so good at defending the indefensible, that they use simple slogans to fire up support "anti PC","anti immigrant". These dog whistles have been with us since racism has been with us - forever.
1
Thank you for this Nicholas. Uncomfortable realities supported overwhelmingly by fact based studies. Regretfully, like climate change, it will be denied by Republicans in a position to make positive change.
2
Donald Trump is the legacy of Ronald Reagan and Republican economic policy for the last 35 years. He is the inevitable result of "trickle down" economics and the race based justification that Nixon, Reagan and the Republican party has used for 40+ years to stick it to the poor and working classes while subsidizing the wealthy and their corporations through tax and trade policy. Trump as the poster boy for Republicans presents a real chance for change which does not come around very often. We need to demand fair tax and trade policies and vote for people who will take on this problem. Republican policy has created Donald Trump; therefore we can only rely on Democrats to fix it. Thus we must vote a tidal wave of Democrats into office and hold them accountable for ensuring that every American pays a fair and equitable share of taxes and every American corporation upholds their end of the bargain and pays their fair share in taxes as well. We need to address institutional bias and racism and that starts with progressive (as opposed to regressive) tax and trade policies for all. Support #fairtaxandtrade; #demsfixthis; #demtidalwave
6
Good luck holding Dimocrats accountable for anything. They're the original party of victimhood.
2
"while inner-city black kids disproportionally get a third-rate education."
I looked at the demographics for NY City (Nick's hometown). It appears that whites are leaving the public school system.
The Bronx for example has a 23% white population while only 4% of the public school students are white.
However Staten Island still has a significant percentage of whites attending public schools. Why is that? Be honest now, progressive NY City residents.
Do your children/grandchildren attend NY City public schools?
Nick you have a lot of work to do straightening up the demographics of the NY City public schools system.
Come back after that is done and then preach to the white folks in flyover county.
I looked at the demographics for NY City (Nick's hometown). It appears that whites are leaving the public school system.
The Bronx for example has a 23% white population while only 4% of the public school students are white.
However Staten Island still has a significant percentage of whites attending public schools. Why is that? Be honest now, progressive NY City residents.
Do your children/grandchildren attend NY City public schools?
Nick you have a lot of work to do straightening up the demographics of the NY City public schools system.
Come back after that is done and then preach to the white folks in flyover county.
10
Wow. The most clueless comments are the most recommended. Absolutely, no one wants to get called on their 'stuff'. And, like all children, go on the defensive when challenged. That is why Trump has a chance. He is the man-child who embodies all the impulse-controlled challenged citizens. 'Wouldn't it be great if I got to act with no empathy, compassion, or understanding of anything other than my own immature experience. Admission of being biased or wrong about anything is absolutely foreign to most people. They will fight to the end to have their willfulness supported.d
3
I live in WV. There is plenty of discrimination against blacks and other minorities here, which I've done my best over the years to correct with gentle prodding and an occasional joke at the offender's expense.
The funny thing is, I'm beginning to become a bit racist myself. Not against blacks. But against my fellow whites. The ones who support Trump, specifically. I find myself painting them all as slack-jawed, toothless, inbred yokels who are incapable of comprehending the consequences of their vote. And I'm becoming more angry and cutting about it by the day.
It's only a matter of time before I say the wrong thing to the wrong person. I know that. But I can't seem to stop myself. And I'll just have to deal with the consequences when it happens.
The funny thing is, I'm beginning to become a bit racist myself. Not against blacks. But against my fellow whites. The ones who support Trump, specifically. I find myself painting them all as slack-jawed, toothless, inbred yokels who are incapable of comprehending the consequences of their vote. And I'm becoming more angry and cutting about it by the day.
It's only a matter of time before I say the wrong thing to the wrong person. I know that. But I can't seem to stop myself. And I'll just have to deal with the consequences when it happens.
4
So-called liberals have an inbred antipathy to anyone who has the audacity to challenge their worldview. The technical term for the pathology is otherism, and those afflicted with otherism are called otherists. Otherism is characterized by delusions of moral and intellectual superiority, absence of empathy and compassion, demonization of perceived enemies, and inability to compromise. Otherism is untreatable and terminal.
3
The data on crime and standardized testing generally confirms the biases that whites have against blacks, and the data cited here confirms the biases that blacks have as well. The difference is that the solutions to these problems always fall on whites. A white working and middle class expected to fund programs that are often discriminate against them and put money into communities that do not have the values or cultural infrastructure to become productive. We've seen it time and time again. Even with the best of intentions on both sides (e.g. Mark Zuckerberg's $100 million gift to Newark's schools), our attempts fail because we are basing our efforts on the lie that all people are equal and the same. We're not all the same and never will be. Racial preferences and prejudice are part of human nature and will never go away. Trying to turn people into color-blind automatons will only backfire repeatedly. The upside to the rise of Donald Trump is that whites are finally beginning to vote their conscience on matters of race. Let's start being honest with one another for a change.
8
"...white working and middle class expected to fund programs that are often discriminate against them..."
Name 5 programs that discriminate against whites. We're waiting....
Name 5 programs that discriminate against whites. We're waiting....
2
One good thing could result from a Trump victory, which would be a triumph for the forces of reactionary racism and bigotry. The fact that an overwhelming majority of whites (Trump needs to get at least two thirds of the White vote to win) is still so racist they could vote for such a candidate would force Afro-Americans to begin facing and accepting an unpalatable truth, namely that integration can never work in a society that still harbors so much latent racism. Perhaps the solution is total separation, the formation of an Afro-american state in an area comprising 25% of the US (double the Afro-American percentage of the population as compensation for three centuries of slavery and persecution.
America is as divided today over race as it was in the 1850s, when Lincoln made his famous statement about a house divided. A Trump victory, and the specter of rolling back minority voting rights to the pre 50s era, ensuring the ballot never reflects demography so as to maintain White domination will ignite civil war. Afro Americans make up over 25% of the armed forces, and over 30% of the ground combat forces, so this is a genuine possibility. Many liberals will join them, as will other countries and movements.
It is possible that if Trump loses, he will irresponsibly push his voters into an insurrection to reconstitute the Confederacy. However while a Clinton victory makes another civil war possible, a Trump victory will almost guarantee it.
America is as divided today over race as it was in the 1850s, when Lincoln made his famous statement about a house divided. A Trump victory, and the specter of rolling back minority voting rights to the pre 50s era, ensuring the ballot never reflects demography so as to maintain White domination will ignite civil war. Afro Americans make up over 25% of the armed forces, and over 30% of the ground combat forces, so this is a genuine possibility. Many liberals will join them, as will other countries and movements.
It is possible that if Trump loses, he will irresponsibly push his voters into an insurrection to reconstitute the Confederacy. However while a Clinton victory makes another civil war possible, a Trump victory will almost guarantee it.
...and then, if Trump is elected, he'll start the zombie apocalypse and his army of deplorables will eat the brains of liberals and that will be their downfall, because liberals have no brains.
When Liberals just don’t get it. It is not news that there are stupid prejudiced people in our country.
The role of government is not to make better people; it is to make sure bad people aren’t allowed to hurt others while maintaining a free society. We do not and cannot do a perfect job of this, particularly when people’s prejudices are allowed to adversely affect the lives of people of color. I care about lifting the poor out of poverty, something that will do more for African Americans than all the liberal preaching about racism and white privilege.
The goal of politics is to create narratives that bring people together to achieve your goals. The narratives liberals have been creating and using for the past several years have achieved nothing. They exacerbate the problems of race and poverty by driving whites to people like Trump, they are divisive and counterproductive.
You won’t bring White voters back into the Democratic fold if you keep calling them racist, especially for silly reasons like not yielding to black jaywalkers. It is time for the left to stop preaching morality and start thinking about practical solutions.
The role of government is not to make better people; it is to make sure bad people aren’t allowed to hurt others while maintaining a free society. We do not and cannot do a perfect job of this, particularly when people’s prejudices are allowed to adversely affect the lives of people of color. I care about lifting the poor out of poverty, something that will do more for African Americans than all the liberal preaching about racism and white privilege.
The goal of politics is to create narratives that bring people together to achieve your goals. The narratives liberals have been creating and using for the past several years have achieved nothing. They exacerbate the problems of race and poverty by driving whites to people like Trump, they are divisive and counterproductive.
You won’t bring White voters back into the Democratic fold if you keep calling them racist, especially for silly reasons like not yielding to black jaywalkers. It is time for the left to stop preaching morality and start thinking about practical solutions.
12
The crosswalk reference is called an example to prove a larger point. You obviously don't read the news.
On this subject, see the new film "I am Not Your Negro," premiering in the US at the Lincoln Center Film Fest but scheduled for wider distribution in the US. Based on James Baldwin's prophetic words, it is one of the most powerful and moving indictments of America's treatment of black people that I have ever seen..
Unfortunately the crowd you are trying to reach is too lazy to read a newspaper or anything else for that matter. While you're at it why don't you look at the gender discrimination in this election. The scrutiny and double standard by which Hillary has had to endure versus that of Trump. If Trump were a she and Hillary a he, this race wold be over.
1
I wish Nick Kristof would end this series already. All he succeeds in doing is reinforce some ugly stereotypes--blacks are helpless victims and whites are despicable racists. Enough is enough.
19
It is the ultimate Liberal trump card. Yes, racism does exist, but to declare than it has a political party is nonsense.
How many of those job interviewers were Liberals?
How many of those job interviewers were Liberals?
9
Racism is endemic to human character. It is everywhere across this planet; and manifests here in America principally in the visual aspect of White and Black. Lesser so between White and Yellow, or Black and Yellow, or....but you get the gist I trust. And these are just the visual aspects of racism. I'll leave aside the social racism of elite rich vs common poor and such.
Since it is endemic in our nature; probably from when the first self-aware hominid came down from the trees and looked askance upon another who was "different," it can never be eliminated. But it can be mitigated. It becomes accentuated whenever those aforementioned types segregate themselves, either forcibly or voluntarily (in gated communities and such), and thru such separation delusions manifest in the perception of all others.
Living together in mixed social communities (a common practice among the Amsterdam, Dutch, for instance), mitigates those tendencies. Rubbing elbows, as it were, with others of difference tends to erode delusional beliefs about that "other." Seeing what is held in common becomes more central than what is held separately. And it seems one of the few ways to educate all of us to one basic fact; White, Black, Yellow, Read or Brown we are all Americans but more importantly we are all human beings.
John~
American Net'Zen
Since it is endemic in our nature; probably from when the first self-aware hominid came down from the trees and looked askance upon another who was "different," it can never be eliminated. But it can be mitigated. It becomes accentuated whenever those aforementioned types segregate themselves, either forcibly or voluntarily (in gated communities and such), and thru such separation delusions manifest in the perception of all others.
Living together in mixed social communities (a common practice among the Amsterdam, Dutch, for instance), mitigates those tendencies. Rubbing elbows, as it were, with others of difference tends to erode delusional beliefs about that "other." Seeing what is held in common becomes more central than what is held separately. And it seems one of the few ways to educate all of us to one basic fact; White, Black, Yellow, Read or Brown we are all Americans but more importantly we are all human beings.
John~
American Net'Zen
2
I agree that living together mitigates racial enmity, but it is still a fragile thing. In the Balkans, Serbs and Croats lived together and intermarried during days of the Yugoslav state. But when that state fell apart and Slobodan Milosevic deliberately stirred up racial enmity the two sides were furiously at either others throats.
1
The title should read "When SOME whites just don't get it".
Everyone who takes pen to paper paints us all with the same broad brush, and I'm getting sick of it.
Everyone who takes pen to paper paints us all with the same broad brush, and I'm getting sick of it.
13
After Obama was elected, I saw ugly racism crawl out from under a rock. Birtherism, a congressman yelling you lie and blind hatred of a man trying to do great things for those haters. Now during this election I'm seeing blatant misogyny from all around, even this newspaper. We have so long way to go to "all people are created equal".
9
"What Kristof Gets" but doesn't want you to know.
1. citing "pollsters",studies "by scholars", and unnamed "researchers as evidence of anything is nonsense
2. "self-destructive" behavior is not a "strand of poverty" but virtually guarantees it
3. supporters of Hillary Clinton are more likely "to tell pollsters" that Republicans are "unintelligent", "violent", and "deplorable"
4. the Democrat strategy of inciting more racial animosity to increase the "black vote" is politically beneficial in the short term but severely damages the country
1. citing "pollsters",studies "by scholars", and unnamed "researchers as evidence of anything is nonsense
2. "self-destructive" behavior is not a "strand of poverty" but virtually guarantees it
3. supporters of Hillary Clinton are more likely "to tell pollsters" that Republicans are "unintelligent", "violent", and "deplorable"
4. the Democrat strategy of inciting more racial animosity to increase the "black vote" is politically beneficial in the short term but severely damages the country
20
supporters of Hillary Clinton are more likely "to tell pollsters" that Republicans are "unintelligent", "violent", and "deplorable"
***the above isn't nonsense, it is FACT - i'm white and totally understand what is being said.
***the above isn't nonsense, it is FACT - i'm white and totally understand what is being said.
1
Heard of the "Southern Strategy"? Richard Nixon used an electoral strategy which subtly enflamed southern racial hostility in order to get their votes. John Erlichman, the domestic policy chief, stated publicly the war on drugs was started in order to persecute Nixon's political enemies. Republicans kept on with that strategy for the last 40+ years. And the phrase "some people say" is SOP on FOX and other conservative hate outlets to justify whatever horror they want to promote. Plus policies of arming all the citizens is only making the police more and more afraid of minorities, especially blacks. Now instead of lynchings, we have police shootings.
You're blaming the victims here.
You're blaming the victims here.
2
Being unable to make a case for maintaining the current national and international policies Kristof has chosen the path of disgusting name calling. I, a Trump supporter, arrested in 1958 for integrating a restaurant in Midland, Texas, fighting for the right to sit with whomever I chose, resent it .
6
So what do I get for all the times I was beaten up, called cracker, poindexter, honky, tripped in the hall, etc when I was put on a bus in Ft Worth Tx during the mid 1980's? I think this article has a lot to say that's more than worth considering. But this new "Original White Sin" movement that basically says all white folks are born/raised racist and that we can't help but be racial oppressors without the guiding hand of those who would replace white racism with a racism of their own. I wonder how it is I survived years of macro-aggressions, physical beatings, name callings, taunting, and harassment before and after school all those years in the de-segregated Ft Worth Tx school system, and somehow when it turns out when the same outrages are dealt in a reversal of what I received it's some life time scar that can't be overcome. You know what? You can get over racial discrimination. I suppose a lot of you out there would say I was able to overcome the black on white discrimination I had to deal with because I'm white, and that there is no way Africans can be racist. Grow up folks, we're all human with equal capacity for being good and bad. I'm all for dealing with the real malfunctions in white American society, but I expect to see some real actions taken with regards to the major malfunctions of African American culture as well. Otherwise I'm just not going to take this sort of reasoning seriously.
16
I agree with Kristoff ,there is racial bias in Caucasian whites they need to begin by educating themselves by first not be jealous of Asian immigrants quick raise in educationa and wealth.Second they need to understand diversity is strength of great America it is no longer concept "America is a melting pot" it is Salad bowel ;diversity of all races is true strength ,sincerity and honesty is secret to success.Lastly white race need understand some time religion breeds ignorance and backward thinking.If they could accept above then " America will be more great again.
1
Is it true that Mr. Kristof lives in Scarsdale, NY? The wealthiest, whitest suburb of NYC? That Hill and Bill live in Chappaqua, a near carbon copy of Scarsdale? I have no animus towards residents of those towns, except when a person like Kristoff tries to shame others as racist.
Mr. K., please put your money where your mouth is an move over the border to White Plains and send your kids to public school in a truly diverse town!
Mr. K., please put your money where your mouth is an move over the border to White Plains and send your kids to public school in a truly diverse town!
16
Better yet, Kristoff needs to work on concretely desegregating Scarsdale.
6
It is no coincidence that white anger came of age after a couple of generations of idealized family television shows that glorified white America. Call it the Ozzie and Harriet-ing of America. It created a national self-image that was unreal, celebrating white middle class values while ignoring the underside of poverty and excluded various ethnic, religious and racial groups. For instance, Jews could do standup comedy, but not be our neighbors.
This absurd self-image can no longer survive in a self-made bubble and now begets fantastical claims such as no one but a white God-fearing Christian is an American and that the founders intended a Christian (read white) state. Those who victimize themselves in such ways might better invest the time reading the Constitution they accuse everyone else of ignoring.
This absurd self-image can no longer survive in a self-made bubble and now begets fantastical claims such as no one but a white God-fearing Christian is an American and that the founders intended a Christian (read white) state. Those who victimize themselves in such ways might better invest the time reading the Constitution they accuse everyone else of ignoring.
3
I yield for all.
My favorite was the 60s in Berkeley where if we stepped off the curb in the middle of a block, all traffic stopped all the time. For long haired radicals.
My favorite was the 60s in Berkeley where if we stepped off the curb in the middle of a block, all traffic stopped all the time. For long haired radicals.
2
Having read numerous of the comments, along with experiencing this shameless presentation of Presidential candidates, by a wholly corrupt DNC, and GNC, and having lived and worked for close on 70 years, in the NY metropolitan area, I know beyond any doubt whatsoever, that racism, in all its ugliness, including religious, ethnic, and LGBT, is alive, thriving, and growing, throughout the United States of America.
The condoned murder of black and other minorities, by white police officers, the creation of a for profit prison system, throughout our land, incarcerating millions, mostly blacks, for minor crimes, resulting from a system which promulgates poverty, necessitating crime to live, is an abomination and on its own signals there is a fundamental breakdown in the ideal that was America.
I now live in a mostly heartless nation, bereft entirely of empathy, no longer able to hide the truth of its decades long opportunistic dogma, practised here at home, and now exported with abandon everywhere on the planet.
My beloved, fast failing nation, is being destroyed, nearly fully overtly now, as the elites, the masters in their secure estates, are fully engaged in an all or nothing grap for anything and everything of value, before it all falls apart.
The long suffering people are past the restless phase, which is evident in the Trumpism push, the abhorrence of Hillary, and the refusal to accept lesser evil, having awakened to understand its a panacea hiding eventual subjugation.
The condoned murder of black and other minorities, by white police officers, the creation of a for profit prison system, throughout our land, incarcerating millions, mostly blacks, for minor crimes, resulting from a system which promulgates poverty, necessitating crime to live, is an abomination and on its own signals there is a fundamental breakdown in the ideal that was America.
I now live in a mostly heartless nation, bereft entirely of empathy, no longer able to hide the truth of its decades long opportunistic dogma, practised here at home, and now exported with abandon everywhere on the planet.
My beloved, fast failing nation, is being destroyed, nearly fully overtly now, as the elites, the masters in their secure estates, are fully engaged in an all or nothing grap for anything and everything of value, before it all falls apart.
The long suffering people are past the restless phase, which is evident in the Trumpism push, the abhorrence of Hillary, and the refusal to accept lesser evil, having awakened to understand its a panacea hiding eventual subjugation.
4
"If we’re so concerned with “personal responsibility,” shouldn’t we show some?" Ok - but still don't understand that Kristof makes light of black crime and that fact affecting the white "racist" view. My local just delivered newspaper has front page story on the record setting pace of black murders in North Charleston. Last year - there were 19 - this year headed towards 36! In the region blacks are 15% of the population and 47% of the murdered.
This destructive pattern repeats in black communities across the nation. Recently, the NYTimes showed this to be true in Chicago too. And yet, FBI director Comity is praised by Hillary supporters when he announces she is innocent of crime - "what a fair man"; but universally condemned by same when he indicates that the "Ferguson effect" is real. Kristof is not being honest. Kristof wears blinders made of white man guilt. Good for him and lucky for him that he doesn't live in South Chicago or North Charleston.
This destructive pattern repeats in black communities across the nation. Recently, the NYTimes showed this to be true in Chicago too. And yet, FBI director Comity is praised by Hillary supporters when he announces she is innocent of crime - "what a fair man"; but universally condemned by same when he indicates that the "Ferguson effect" is real. Kristof is not being honest. Kristof wears blinders made of white man guilt. Good for him and lucky for him that he doesn't live in South Chicago or North Charleston.
8
The modern American Dilemma: You built your house on a faulty foundation of 4 pillars (racism, sexism, heterosexism and classism). If you decided to remove the faulty pillars to repair your house, how would you do it? And what would you replace the long-standing pillars with?
Another inconvenient truth. This, well-written, piece will be taken more serious by whites because it was written by a white.
2
Mr. Kristof, your portrayal of white privilege lacks a basic understanding of people's position on race. Rather than "clear eyed" understandings of the cause of economic and social disparities, you and much of the mainstream media portrays white privilege as some magical and overwhelming affect that causes the "perfect" black persona to fail because the barriers that exist are so tremendous as to guarantee failure. It fails miserably to acknowledge not only gains (which suggest remaining inequity) but the structural biases that now exist that places Blacks at an advantage in specific situations. From hiring quotas to college admissions, a less qualified black person will displace another person. An Asian must now have 20% better academics to attend an elite college while a black person more than 20% poorer academics. You couch descriptions as a matter of poverty. Yet, we know that Black communities have dramatically higher violent and non violent crime rates than similarly economically challenged communities of Hispanics and Asians. Yet, the media persists in labeling the reason as poverty. You toss a crumb of a statistic of black acknowledgement of broken families yet fail to acknowledge that broken families constitute the single greatest correlation to failure. Racial preferences exist but a discussion that does not fully describe the situation and makes every issue one born of the poisoned root only functions to make progressives self satisfied and all others mad.
6
Malcolm X once said that " “America's greatest crime against the black man was not slavery or lynching, but that he was taught to wear a mask of self-hate and self-doubt.”He wasn't excusing racism, but he was trying to make African Americans realize that without confidence in our ability to achieve success in this society we are doomed. When I hear African Americans using the n word to refer to themselves and other African Americans that indicates a feeling of self hate which is a huge problem. I stopped taking Jessie Jackson seriously, after he used the n word in describing Obama. African Americans aren't a pitiable people dependent on people like Kristof to scold white people about racism . We are a part of a Western civilization which is in flux and somewhat in economic decline as both China and Japan have bigger economies than the Europeans. Let us fight racism, but let us also not be consumed with the past so that we don't take advantage of the opportunities open to African Americans which are unprecedented in American history.
4
Could you suggest some systemic solutions and specific actions to take? Because people who believe racism exists don't need a 7-part lecture, and folks who insist racism doesn't exist aren't listening anyway. And this fallacious notion that every white person is equally guilty of perpetuating a racist system is the social equivalent of original sin. It makes as much sense as holding you, a journalist, responsible for Fox News. It's not helping. Telling people how bad they are doesn't usually encourage them to change their ways. I'm a Catholic, so believe me, I understand how guilt works. When you're told to face the enormous yawning chasm of race over the past 400 years, well, can you understand how good people, who've striven to do the right thing on a personal level, may become a little daunted?
When policy at every level makes doing it right the norm, the vast majority of individuals will follow suit.
When policy at every level makes doing it right the norm, the vast majority of individuals will follow suit.
3
Nick, insightful stuff here this morning, but you don't go far enough.
Everyone, of every color, sex, belief, needs to look into the mirror. We will each see reflected a bigoted, true-believer, finger-pointer, #hashtag-maker who thinks it's somebody else.
It's not just the whites who don't get it. We all don't get it.
Everyone, of every color, sex, belief, needs to look into the mirror. We will each see reflected a bigoted, true-believer, finger-pointer, #hashtag-maker who thinks it's somebody else.
It's not just the whites who don't get it. We all don't get it.
1
Your logical fallacies are piling up, Krugman. Because of this dot of research, then this, an asteroid of result. Blacks are 18 times more likely to commit murder given their % of population, than whites, and your heady research produces a study on crosswalk protocol.
Racism is not landing on blacks so much as the anti-social acts that they, especially young black men, commit. "Deshawn" is much more violent than "Sean". "Demarcus" is much more prone to property crimes than "Mark". And then, in your desperation to crown Hillary, you cast Trump as a source of racism. Shame on you and the white castigators "lining up" behind you.
Racism is not landing on blacks so much as the anti-social acts that they, especially young black men, commit. "Deshawn" is much more violent than "Sean". "Demarcus" is much more prone to property crimes than "Mark". And then, in your desperation to crown Hillary, you cast Trump as a source of racism. Shame on you and the white castigators "lining up" behind you.
12
I'd love to see this crosswalk study further developed to include an interview with those that chose to stop or not to determine their political affiliation. While it does not directly come out and say it, this article implies that it would be those in the Trump camp that would not stop for black men in a crosswalk.
1
Mario has a job opening. Paddy and Luigi apply. Luigi gets the job. Would you call that discrimination?
4
Can we afford any more unexplainable-tolerance...in all honesty, we have been sucked dry and we have become weary of manufactured grievances. It's become a daily routine watching some buffoon or a network bimbo on TV telling us how offended they are.
Why don’t they display the same level of outrage about things that are genuinely offensive like the hundreds black people who are murdered and raped in Chicago every year, then I might take them seriously…right now there is nothing less deserving of dignity and respect and something deeply comical about it because it is so contrived, they are impossible to take seriously. It’s just baseless grievance mongering and it shows us how the race relations really is here, which is supported by their continuously, needles conflict and intimidation.
Why don’t they display the same level of outrage about things that are genuinely offensive like the hundreds black people who are murdered and raped in Chicago every year, then I might take them seriously…right now there is nothing less deserving of dignity and respect and something deeply comical about it because it is so contrived, they are impossible to take seriously. It’s just baseless grievance mongering and it shows us how the race relations really is here, which is supported by their continuously, needles conflict and intimidation.
13
wrong - racisem is a self perpetution state , and minoritys do everything they can to validate its tenents ,, where i live in ct .. all teh crime , property devaluation , drug abuse is owned by minoritys ,, , just read teh police blotter .. its there in black and white , the only crime in my neighborhood in the last 40 years was commited by spanish from hartford ,, and tehy werent seeking work
2
whites get it all too well , thats why we move to all white neighborhoods
13
I am certain that our black citizens have legitimate issues that need to be addressed, issues that this election campaign has magnified. But, quite frankly, I think many whites are just tired of hearing about them. Perhaps, after Clinton is elected next month and Trump is out of the picture, we can take a few weeks break and not talk or write about racial issues or bigotry or diversity. etc. Then, when everyone is rested, we can start over with, possibly, some new ideas.
7
It scares most of America to really talk about racial problems. Part of the white nationalist movement behind Trump is the call to not talk about racial problems. Too me, BLM is as much about bringing race into the open to the nonacademic as it is about protesting specific incidences. Institutional racism is well known by historians of US history and social scientists, but it is not known by the majority of whites in America. These whites deny that it exists and they deny the conversation needs to happen in the first place to change it. Have you ever tried to broach the subject with a rural white about institutional racism? Unless they are stuck in a classroom, they are not likely to listen. Even when they are in a classroom, they either start rolling eyes or stop listening all together.
4
Mr Kristoff conflates all whites with racism. Not so specifically in this, part 7 of his series, but as a constant thread of his writing.
His contention that "we whites seem curiously unwilling to shoulder any responsibility for our own part in racial inequity" is akin to the old joke about "have you stopped beating your wife."
Let's be clear. Not all whites are racist. Such memes as "white privilege" are without substance for the past two or three generations. Whites today are not responsible for slavery or Jim Crow. Many whites today, certainly who came of age in the 1950s -1970s, marched and demonstrated for civil rights alongside blacks. We have witnessed what has happened both good and bad in our black urban communities. Daniel Moynahan was right.
Let's be clear about something else. While police bullying is so wrong that it undermines the basic foundations of our liberties, it is not endemic in our land. Yesterday's paper cited the Morgan/Pally research into the "Ferguson effect." If you bother to read the research paper, you'll find that of the ~18,000 police precincts in this country, the Justice Department found fewer than 30 had systemic problems. Do the math.
More to the point, the incidence of black crime in urban settings occurs at multiples of white crime anywhere on the planet.
We have a most serious problem in this country about the racial divide. It will not be solved if people like Mr Kristof are disingenuous with their writing.
His contention that "we whites seem curiously unwilling to shoulder any responsibility for our own part in racial inequity" is akin to the old joke about "have you stopped beating your wife."
Let's be clear. Not all whites are racist. Such memes as "white privilege" are without substance for the past two or three generations. Whites today are not responsible for slavery or Jim Crow. Many whites today, certainly who came of age in the 1950s -1970s, marched and demonstrated for civil rights alongside blacks. We have witnessed what has happened both good and bad in our black urban communities. Daniel Moynahan was right.
Let's be clear about something else. While police bullying is so wrong that it undermines the basic foundations of our liberties, it is not endemic in our land. Yesterday's paper cited the Morgan/Pally research into the "Ferguson effect." If you bother to read the research paper, you'll find that of the ~18,000 police precincts in this country, the Justice Department found fewer than 30 had systemic problems. Do the math.
More to the point, the incidence of black crime in urban settings occurs at multiples of white crime anywhere on the planet.
We have a most serious problem in this country about the racial divide. It will not be solved if people like Mr Kristof are disingenuous with their writing.
16
Thank you! Great post.
I've always treated everyone I meet equally, regardless of race. I'm not really sure what I can do other than that, voting with consideration for this issue, and saying something and providing support to blacks when I see people behaving in a biased way. Whenever this issue comes up, I feel as if there's something more that people want -- and I get that. The Jews were given reparations after the Holocaust and I feel like blacks should be given the same consideration after slavery. I wholeheartedly support that. But, I can't undo slavery. I can't undo the unfairness that's already happened and the situations that people have already been put in. I can just be a fair person and do what I can now. I really hope that's enough, because it's all I have to give.
5
Very well said, J.D., and you raise a really good point. Aside from acknowledging our own racism and working to overcome it, there's not a lot that most average Americans can do. But that's not the case for everybody. My biases will never cause me to shoot an unarmed man after a traffic stop. A police officer's biases could. My biases will not cause a minority neighborhood to be a food desert, or struggle with urban blight. The biases of a grocery store owner or landlords could.
.
I don't know why Nicholas Kristof doesn't acknowledge this. Perhaps because he would have to confront a difficult truth himself: that his Win a Trip program is biased. The bias isn't intentional, to be sure, but it is probable when you look at the program through the lens of disparate impact. Ask yourself: how many of the students who've won trips with Nicholas Kristof have come from Historically Black Universities or Community Colleges that serve predominantly minority communities?
.
I don't know why Nicholas Kristof doesn't acknowledge this. Perhaps because he would have to confront a difficult truth himself: that his Win a Trip program is biased. The bias isn't intentional, to be sure, but it is probable when you look at the program through the lens of disparate impact. Ask yourself: how many of the students who've won trips with Nicholas Kristof have come from Historically Black Universities or Community Colleges that serve predominantly minority communities?
Oh, great. Yet another column about race in America where Nicholas Kristof pretends there are only two races in America.
15
Do you see any irony at all in a white writer pontificating on what black people think?
16
It"s remarkable (and sad) how many of these comments reinforce the premise of this piece. We have a long way to go as a country founded on the backs of slaves. Trumps racist campaign and devotees don't like the racist label, but their racism is as plain as day.
10
i beg to differ, blacks worked menial jobs in agriculture and if that is all what's needed to make a country successful, Africa would be a wild success too and it's not even remote
white men and western ideals made this country what it is
white men and western ideals made this country what it is
2
Well, Nick, having read through the comments, I'm very sad to see that your title is, once again, dead-on.
9
People look at the results of racism and then blame the result on the result, how clever.
No matter how much you are turned off by what you see remember America is America because a people were fully exploited. The right thing to do was reparations(In the form of free high quality education and counseling) but hey I know that's crazy but it's the right thing to do.
No matter how much you are turned off by what you see remember America is America because a people were fully exploited. The right thing to do was reparations(In the form of free high quality education and counseling) but hey I know that's crazy but it's the right thing to do.
5
Thank you for this commentary. It is indeed easier to blame people who do not look or act like us for our own problems or insecurities.
4
We're not blaming anyone, oh except the criminals.
4
Calling the police is a double edge sword. No longer can you assume competence or fairness, but sometimes the dice have to be rolled.
1
Amazing to see the ultra-privileged timesies cry "racism".
21
Just keep writing, Mr Kristof, just keep righting.
8
That's a good one. Companies with less blacks suffered more during the recession. Guess we should hire more to get smart.
2
Seems to me that a lot of the problems of systemic racism originates from a failure to acknowledge America's history.
This country was born out of genocide and on the back of slaves.
Unless Americans are willing to face that simple truth instead of buying into the usual "beacon of hope" and "America is exceptional" soundbites, nothing will change.
I fault the African-American 'leadership', the likes of Al Sharpton and Harold Ford Jr., for their lack of leadership and being more interested in looking out for their own personal gain and wealth than those of the African-American community.
Fortunately, a new kind of black leadership, Ta-Nehisi Coates, Marc Lamont Hill etc., are emerging, who aren't ethically challenged and in the pocket of Wall Street and corporate America.
So there is hope. It's just been taking way too long already.
This country was born out of genocide and on the back of slaves.
Unless Americans are willing to face that simple truth instead of buying into the usual "beacon of hope" and "America is exceptional" soundbites, nothing will change.
I fault the African-American 'leadership', the likes of Al Sharpton and Harold Ford Jr., for their lack of leadership and being more interested in looking out for their own personal gain and wealth than those of the African-American community.
Fortunately, a new kind of black leadership, Ta-Nehisi Coates, Marc Lamont Hill etc., are emerging, who aren't ethically challenged and in the pocket of Wall Street and corporate America.
So there is hope. It's just been taking way too long already.
8
To all of the white, cis-gendered, heterosexual, Judeo-Christian-ish men out there feeling burdened by equality legislation, affirmative action in particular; I have a challenge for you. Throw off the yoke of your mediocrity, your petty generational grievance that allows you to explain away the unfulfilled promise of you and compete. Go for the gusto, grab the ring, close the deal, make your orange leader proud.
If you fail, please recognize that you were left behind not because of one person of color, one woman, or one LGBT person but because an army of them had better ideas or skills than you. Success come from experience and experience comes from failure. I will leave you with a quote that I have head too many times: 'Y'all just need a little more experience...'.
If you fail, please recognize that you were left behind not because of one person of color, one woman, or one LGBT person but because an army of them had better ideas or skills than you. Success come from experience and experience comes from failure. I will leave you with a quote that I have head too many times: 'Y'all just need a little more experience...'.
6
First of all, Donald Trump wants to make this election about Donald Trump. He has no respect for black people, fat people, female people, people trying to improve themselves, people who've lost their jobs, people who work on his jobs, hispanic people, Mexicans, and anybody who doesn't acknowledge that the only truly GREAT thing about America is Donald Trump.
I am white. Donald Trump is white. We don't get together and talk about how we can hold black people back. He is rich, maybe. I have a better hair cut, I hope.
You lump us together because it fits your narrative. But I've got as much in common with Trump as President Obama has with some gang banger in Camden. Just because it gives you something to write about doesn't mean it's true.
I am white. Donald Trump is white. We don't get together and talk about how we can hold black people back. He is rich, maybe. I have a better hair cut, I hope.
You lump us together because it fits your narrative. But I've got as much in common with Trump as President Obama has with some gang banger in Camden. Just because it gives you something to write about doesn't mean it's true.
8
Kristof begins: "LET me raise an uncomfortable topic:... this presidential campaign is in part about RACE.
Kristof clearly means "racism" but he apparently - 7 columns so far - does not know the difference between "race" and "racism". To judge from the comments we Americans do not find it uncomfortable to talk about racism.
However, to judge from reading Kristof he finds it not only uncomfortable but absolutely impossible to even think about the American concept of "race" as represented by the US Census Bureau.
In my first submission I suggest he learn a thing or two from Professor Dorothy Roberts. Here in my second I suggest he learn a thing or two from Professor Kenneth Prewitt who sets forth in ch. 11 of his book "What Is Your Race?..." a proposal to stop classifying us by race, a concept and system invented by racists.
Implicit in the use of that system is the belief that the so called black race is genetically programmed to be "lazy, violent, and unintelligent". Trump, although only an n = 1 anecdotal example, gives us reason to believe that perhaps it is not genetics but culture and environment that account for such as Trumpian lack of intelligence.
Do you, Nicholas Kristof - I almost slipped and wrote Wade - believe that Barack Obama, for example, belongs to a genetically distinct "black race"? And you, dear reader, how about you?
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen-US SE
Kristof clearly means "racism" but he apparently - 7 columns so far - does not know the difference between "race" and "racism". To judge from the comments we Americans do not find it uncomfortable to talk about racism.
However, to judge from reading Kristof he finds it not only uncomfortable but absolutely impossible to even think about the American concept of "race" as represented by the US Census Bureau.
In my first submission I suggest he learn a thing or two from Professor Dorothy Roberts. Here in my second I suggest he learn a thing or two from Professor Kenneth Prewitt who sets forth in ch. 11 of his book "What Is Your Race?..." a proposal to stop classifying us by race, a concept and system invented by racists.
Implicit in the use of that system is the belief that the so called black race is genetically programmed to be "lazy, violent, and unintelligent". Trump, although only an n = 1 anecdotal example, gives us reason to believe that perhaps it is not genetics but culture and environment that account for such as Trumpian lack of intelligence.
Do you, Nicholas Kristof - I almost slipped and wrote Wade - believe that Barack Obama, for example, belongs to a genetically distinct "black race"? And you, dear reader, how about you?
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen-US SE
4
There is no doubt in my mind that if a black father dragged his daughter by the hair like the white father in the Texas Walmart there would have been a different outcome. That man would have been incarcerated. Racism will never end.
3
Hey Nick, knock it off. We need to galvanize our entire populace and you don't to that by trying to white shame whites. You think it's cute but it's not. It's corrosive and it's wrong.
Oh, yes, I know if I disagree with you I am a bigot. Great way to have a conversation about the real issues.
Oh, yes, I know if I disagree with you I am a bigot. Great way to have a conversation about the real issues.
30
If the problems blacks have with the police were due to white racism why do they claim to be victims of police brutality absolutely everywhere? If you have a problem in relation to every other group in every place your race is the conclusion is that it's everyone else that is the problem? Something very telling is that Africans say that the police in Africa are much more violent and corrupt then what they experience in the west. If the police violence blacks have in the US, Europe, Canada, Israel, Brasil, etc was due to prejudice based on skin color then this would be less of a problem in Africa, not more.
8
I live in Portland so that study about crosswalks made a big deal when it came out. It was a very unscientific survey done with a very small number of participants over a very short time period. It was clickbait. It hurts your credibility and the point you are attempting to make when you refer to studies that have no scientific validity or rigor in how they are carried out. You seem to be a conclusion looking for facts, and you are willing to accept as fact very flimsy claims. This is exactly why people start to be dismissive over claims such as the ones you make.
19
"...we whites seem curiously unwilling to shoulder any responsibility for our own part in racial inequity."
"we whites"?? "our own part"??
Collective Guilt?? Collective Victimhood??
No deal:
I am not willing to "shoulder responsibility" for the actions of other whites.
So, white hiring officer WHO in a company C acts in a racially discriminatory way toward black person BP when making a hiring decision for job J??
Then require C to fire or demote WHO .
If that WHO is me, then fire or demote me.
And if job J is still open, then re-consider the BP for job J along with all other applicants, each on his/her own merits, without preference in favor of anyone because of race.
And if J is not still open, then require C to pay compensation to BP (in addition to firing or demoting WHO).
But if WHO was not me, then don't penalize me for what WHO did.
And don't force (or even permit) company C (or any other company C#2) to give some other black person (BP#2) with the same (or lesser) qualifications as me an "affirmative" action" race preference over me for some other job (J#2).
"we whites"?? "our own part"??
Collective Guilt?? Collective Victimhood??
No deal:
I am not willing to "shoulder responsibility" for the actions of other whites.
So, white hiring officer WHO in a company C acts in a racially discriminatory way toward black person BP when making a hiring decision for job J??
Then require C to fire or demote WHO .
If that WHO is me, then fire or demote me.
And if job J is still open, then re-consider the BP for job J along with all other applicants, each on his/her own merits, without preference in favor of anyone because of race.
And if J is not still open, then require C to pay compensation to BP (in addition to firing or demoting WHO).
But if WHO was not me, then don't penalize me for what WHO did.
And don't force (or even permit) company C (or any other company C#2) to give some other black person (BP#2) with the same (or lesser) qualifications as me an "affirmative" action" race preference over me for some other job (J#2).
11
Wow. This comment thread should have the same title as the column. Call it "When Whites Just Don’t Get It, Part 7b."
11
Wow. You can tell the race of a person just by reading a comment in the NYT?
3
It is not necessary to cure all aspects of racism or racial attitudes. It is only necessary to cure the impact of those attitudes in our society. Focus on that and, in time, racialism will fade.
Having lived in a majority black city for 17+ years (DC), I came to realize that white people don't see black people and thus don't understand the diversity and struggles to move forward and make something of their lives. White people are blind to the black community because they have been fed a steady diet of blacks in the news committing crime, blacks dropping out of school, blacks going to prison and taking welfare. The beauty of black people, their successes, the profound resistance of many to being third class citizens is just not seen.
We don't know the full and complete story of the lynchings, mass murders, mass arrests and re-enslavement that took place after the Civil War and continued well into the 20th century, not yet 100 yrs. past. There's a new book out about how blacks were driven out of an entire county in Alabama by murder, intimidation, arrests and rank discrimination. The past has a long term impact on the present, because each generation either builds, or falls, based on what came before.
Well into the 1960s, a town outside of Dallas, Greenville, Texas, had a billboard that read: "WELCOME TO GREENVILLE, THE BLACKEST LAND AND THE WHITEST PEOPLE".
Each person can make a small difference by trying to rip racial attitudes out of our own hearts. Every day.
Having lived in a majority black city for 17+ years (DC), I came to realize that white people don't see black people and thus don't understand the diversity and struggles to move forward and make something of their lives. White people are blind to the black community because they have been fed a steady diet of blacks in the news committing crime, blacks dropping out of school, blacks going to prison and taking welfare. The beauty of black people, their successes, the profound resistance of many to being third class citizens is just not seen.
We don't know the full and complete story of the lynchings, mass murders, mass arrests and re-enslavement that took place after the Civil War and continued well into the 20th century, not yet 100 yrs. past. There's a new book out about how blacks were driven out of an entire county in Alabama by murder, intimidation, arrests and rank discrimination. The past has a long term impact on the present, because each generation either builds, or falls, based on what came before.
Well into the 1960s, a town outside of Dallas, Greenville, Texas, had a billboard that read: "WELCOME TO GREENVILLE, THE BLACKEST LAND AND THE WHITEST PEOPLE".
Each person can make a small difference by trying to rip racial attitudes out of our own hearts. Every day.
7
all true. i think a larger percentage of white people, who are not racist, are sick of being the "bad" guy. i know that im not racist, my family not racist but because i'm white i have to now believe i have "white privilege " and didn't earn my success. where i grew up, no matter your race if you studied and did well you went to college. as a white man with no hatred towards anyone it is tough to hear people with equal opportunity blame others for not taking advantage of them.
of course their are exceptions and there are haters but in my humble opinion most people want everything equal and fair.
lets just stop blaming and shaming people because they were born a certain race.
of course their are exceptions and there are haters but in my humble opinion most people want everything equal and fair.
lets just stop blaming and shaming people because they were born a certain race.
2
Good article, but it reiterates what many have been saying for years. It took the Black Lives Matter movement to wake some others up. Here's a thing you might contemplate NK. Americans describe themselves as very religious and God-fearing. What churches do they attend, what pastors and priests to they hear, yet after all these decades, are able to leave again with their racism intact?
3
Godfrey. Thank you.
2
"Take something as simple as crossing the street."
Yes since Kristof and the NY Times brought it up let't look at that. Not sure if this will pass the NY Times' censors. They generally don't like to hear about black on white crime or violence - not sure why.
Anyway taking a real life example, my father who was 63 at the time was getting off the bus while returning from work. We lived on the near-eastside of Detroit around Chene Street.
He was assaulted by two African American young men and was left disabled. He managed to make it home but when he entered the house you knew things were not right. I looked at him, here was a man who did not drive a car and took the bus to and from work everyday. We lived in the neighborhood even after newly arrived residents started referring to it as "the ghetto". To my parents it was always a modest lower middle class neighborhood.
How the kicker is, if my father would have tried to cross the street or turned around to stay on a busier street when he saw these two gentlemen approaching him this would have been a textbook Kristof case of a mean old white man prejudging African American youths. There would have been outrage at my father's action that he would have the temerity to try and avoid the beating he took. How dare he!
The liberal guilt perpetual motion machine, on and on it goes.
Yes since Kristof and the NY Times brought it up let't look at that. Not sure if this will pass the NY Times' censors. They generally don't like to hear about black on white crime or violence - not sure why.
Anyway taking a real life example, my father who was 63 at the time was getting off the bus while returning from work. We lived on the near-eastside of Detroit around Chene Street.
He was assaulted by two African American young men and was left disabled. He managed to make it home but when he entered the house you knew things were not right. I looked at him, here was a man who did not drive a car and took the bus to and from work everyday. We lived in the neighborhood even after newly arrived residents started referring to it as "the ghetto". To my parents it was always a modest lower middle class neighborhood.
How the kicker is, if my father would have tried to cross the street or turned around to stay on a busier street when he saw these two gentlemen approaching him this would have been a textbook Kristof case of a mean old white man prejudging African American youths. There would have been outrage at my father's action that he would have the temerity to try and avoid the beating he took. How dare he!
The liberal guilt perpetual motion machine, on and on it goes.
37
Two young criminals horribly assaulted your father. I'm sorry for that.
But please explain how those two should determine the assessment and judgement of 40,000,000 Americans who happen to share their race and include representatives, senators, governors, judges, supreme court justices, cabinet officers, generals, admirals, and the President and First Lady.
But please explain how those two should determine the assessment and judgement of 40,000,000 Americans who happen to share their race and include representatives, senators, governors, judges, supreme court justices, cabinet officers, generals, admirals, and the President and First Lady.
2
Yeah JP you really just don't get it.
You are throwing out supposition and projection like it is fact. Since your father never tried crossing the street or going another route we will never know what might have happened, and your spitting bile and passive-aggressive conjecture doesn't make it any more true. Sure, muggings occur, some of them violent, and I'm very very sorry about what happened to your father. Perpetuating the hate all these years later isn't going to stop it any time soon now is it?
You are throwing out supposition and projection like it is fact. Since your father never tried crossing the street or going another route we will never know what might have happened, and your spitting bile and passive-aggressive conjecture doesn't make it any more true. Sure, muggings occur, some of them violent, and I'm very very sorry about what happened to your father. Perpetuating the hate all these years later isn't going to stop it any time soon now is it?
1
Problem with being a Western European, i.e., "whites", immigrant who arrived right before the Great Depression. But perhaps more of those living in, say, Pacific Palisades or Pelosiland Palo Alto, ought to spend a couple years living in the inner-cities of Detroit and Chicago--you know, like Bill and Hillary have done over the years.
A Federal law requiring same might help here, too. Could be Kristof's Part 8 from the NYT pulpit.
A Federal law requiring same might help here, too. Could be Kristof's Part 8 from the NYT pulpit.
4
a scab cannot heal when you keep picking at it...
10
The Kristof lectures continue (up to Part 7) with rigged studies, psychobabble, and merely the blip of a nod to self-destructive behavior in the black community but with the usual out of “poverty.”
I refuse to go down the white guilt trip road for ills in the black community so that Nicholas Kristof can play his Johnny One Note black victim song and earn the nice bucks that he does so his family can live in the same predominantly white community that I live in.
I remember all too well, moreover, when one of the Kristof black victim lectures cited a Justin Wolfers study of racist calls by NBA referees. What Mr. Kristof conveniently left out was that the NBA had also done a study debunking Wolfers; that The Times had published an article saying that it had asked “independent experts” to examine the two studies and those experts had validated the Wolfers study over the NBA study; and that the next day the Times had to run a note showing that the so-called independent experts were not independent at all but had a connection to Wolfers. In that connection Kristof also never mentioned a column by the Times leading NBA analyst saying, basically, that the Wolfers study was baloney.
I wrote a comment on Kristof’s column the other day about the horrors of Donald Trump, saying at least we had been spared another Kristof What Whites Just Don’t Get column. I spoke too soon.
I refuse to go down the white guilt trip road for ills in the black community so that Nicholas Kristof can play his Johnny One Note black victim song and earn the nice bucks that he does so his family can live in the same predominantly white community that I live in.
I remember all too well, moreover, when one of the Kristof black victim lectures cited a Justin Wolfers study of racist calls by NBA referees. What Mr. Kristof conveniently left out was that the NBA had also done a study debunking Wolfers; that The Times had published an article saying that it had asked “independent experts” to examine the two studies and those experts had validated the Wolfers study over the NBA study; and that the next day the Times had to run a note showing that the so-called independent experts were not independent at all but had a connection to Wolfers. In that connection Kristof also never mentioned a column by the Times leading NBA analyst saying, basically, that the Wolfers study was baloney.
I wrote a comment on Kristof’s column the other day about the horrors of Donald Trump, saying at least we had been spared another Kristof What Whites Just Don’t Get column. I spoke too soon.
26
"In America, we have to talk about white, male dominance." That says it all.
9
As a Canadian watching the American scene I can tell you that racism against African Americans is as obvious as the nose in the middle of your face. I'm not saying there is none up here because there is, but from what I hear in Canadian news broadcasts it seems to be disproportionately targeted against Natives. Now I'm white too, so that's just my impression but it seems that racism against blacks is not as systemic as it is south of the border. But again that's my impression as a white person.
That's because Canada has fewer then 2% blacks in their population, and even those are mostly educated Caribbean immigrants.
Canada has very few blacks who are poor, or descendants of slaves in the Old South. Canada today is mostly white and asian, and has controlled immigration, so that they have never developed the large underclass of poor blacks & hispanics that mark most major US cities.
I've visited Canada many times (*before Obama's passport rule!) and live very close to Ontario. Toronto looks remarkably like Cleveland, even the identical rapid transit system! but when I have visited, I am always struck by an eerie fact -- "this is what Cleveland would look like if you teleported away all the black people".
If you do not HAVE a problem, it is easy to claim its because of your "moral superiority".
In fact, if the US sent a proportion of poor blacks and illegal immigrants from Mexico & Central America, TO CANADA....so that your population mix was now identical to ours....your social services, single payer health care and smug arrogance would disappear within six months. Maybe sooner.
Canada has very few blacks who are poor, or descendants of slaves in the Old South. Canada today is mostly white and asian, and has controlled immigration, so that they have never developed the large underclass of poor blacks & hispanics that mark most major US cities.
I've visited Canada many times (*before Obama's passport rule!) and live very close to Ontario. Toronto looks remarkably like Cleveland, even the identical rapid transit system! but when I have visited, I am always struck by an eerie fact -- "this is what Cleveland would look like if you teleported away all the black people".
If you do not HAVE a problem, it is easy to claim its because of your "moral superiority".
In fact, if the US sent a proportion of poor blacks and illegal immigrants from Mexico & Central America, TO CANADA....so that your population mix was now identical to ours....your social services, single payer health care and smug arrogance would disappear within six months. Maybe sooner.
5
OK, I worked for a Canadian/American company for many years. I know that Canadians are as bad as anyone else. I used to like telling them that I was of French Canadian descent after their diatribes.
2
How pathetic that the #1 NYT Readers' Picks for this column is one that ignores the primary thrust of Kristof's argument and "submits" that "gender bias...is equally pervasive in our society."
Thanks for proving Kristof's point!
Thanks for proving Kristof's point!
4
I wonder if Mr. Kristof "gets" that illegal immigration, bad trade deals and other things that the Democrats (and establishment Republicans) support are worse for black people? They destroy chance of jobs, and with that, the ability for a secure future. But that narrative isn't as sexy for Mr. Kristof as "When Whites Just Don't Get It, Part 7." Please.
You'd never hear Mr. Kristof talk about Pres. Obama's DEA maintenance of marijuana as a Class 4 drug. Doing so makes all sorts of bad outcomes, including needlessly criminalizing something that ends up hurting more poor and black people. Why can't Mr. Obama or Mr.s Clinton do something about that?
To keep such a policy is biased. And it's not even implicit.
So stop with the blame nonsense Mr. Kristof. The identity politics played by your heroes in the Democratic establishment have failed the black community and you are part and parcel of that failure. Stop including the rest of the public in your mess. It's starting to make you sound unhinged.
You'd never hear Mr. Kristof talk about Pres. Obama's DEA maintenance of marijuana as a Class 4 drug. Doing so makes all sorts of bad outcomes, including needlessly criminalizing something that ends up hurting more poor and black people. Why can't Mr. Obama or Mr.s Clinton do something about that?
To keep such a policy is biased. And it's not even implicit.
So stop with the blame nonsense Mr. Kristof. The identity politics played by your heroes in the Democratic establishment have failed the black community and you are part and parcel of that failure. Stop including the rest of the public in your mess. It's starting to make you sound unhinged.
30
You might add that it was not a Republican nor Donald Trump who called young black men "super predators".
It was your Anointed One, Hillary Clinton!
It was your Anointed One, Hillary Clinton!
3
Yes. We're all biased in some way - and that includes you, Mr. Kristof. It's a natural thing. The best we can do is acknowledge it, and work on it on a personal level. If enough people do this, then we will make some real progress on race relations in this country.
.
Fundamentally, we all want the same thing: to feel safe and confident in our surroundings; to live and work in vibrant, functioning cities and neighborhoods. Too many people have lost sight of this. I wish you'd start a series of columns titled "when nobody gets it."
.
.
Fundamentally, we all want the same thing: to feel safe and confident in our surroundings; to live and work in vibrant, functioning cities and neighborhoods. Too many people have lost sight of this. I wish you'd start a series of columns titled "when nobody gets it."
.
8
Why do so many articles like this one leave out the fact that in many studies blacks are just as likely to discriminate against blacks as whites are? Even when reporting on police shooting of unarmed black men, articles often leave out the race of the officer if it happens to be black. Acknowledging this dynamic doesn't mitigate the seriousness of this issue or the harm perpetrated on African Americans but it does demonstrate that the issue is more complex than these articles suggest.
32
But you still have to document the solidity of your example. You also still have to realize that in this deeply racist country even black people, themselves, can be infected. It is a virulent disease, like . (Similarly, in addition to many men, many women are infected by misogyny which has a lot to do with the irrational dislike and distrust of Mrs. Clinton.)
In this election, our poor country is battling two virulent diseases. Thank you, Mr. Kristof, for battling both of them.
In this election, our poor country is battling two virulent diseases. Thank you, Mr. Kristof, for battling both of them.
I think white folks like me are less in denial of racial inequities and more just ignorant. The crosswalk experiment would come as a surprise to most. I know I didn't understand the everyday impact of racism until I moved to a country where I am a minority, even an often favoured minority. Token or scapegoat, but never just somebody walking down the street.
6
When Nicholas Kristof "just doesn’t get it".
His Email to all of us Times subscribers ends with this:
“And now here’s my column on RACE.”
I click on the link and here is what I read:
“We all know that in some fundamental way, this presidential campaign is in part about RACE.”
Appalling that a leading NYT columnist does not know the difference between the concept of “race” and the mode of thought and behaviour called “racism”. I can only understand this by believing he learned about “race” by reading the works of his former colleague Nicholas Wade whose mantle as Times "race" expert Kristof has taken on.
At least the first 20 commenters seem to know the difference between race and racism, but not Kristof.
The day that Nicholas begins one of his Emails by stating that he has looked at Professor Dorothy Robert’s TED talk I may read further. Until then, I won't waste my time?
What will our New York Times expert on “race” do when he learns that Roberts has written a whole book on race the fatal invention of racists and when he learns from the book and from the TED talk that she sees herself as socially black, not African American, and as a member of the only race, the human?
Maybe he will write column no. 8, in which explains why he, Nicholas Kristof, never got it.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen-US SE
His Email to all of us Times subscribers ends with this:
“And now here’s my column on RACE.”
I click on the link and here is what I read:
“We all know that in some fundamental way, this presidential campaign is in part about RACE.”
Appalling that a leading NYT columnist does not know the difference between the concept of “race” and the mode of thought and behaviour called “racism”. I can only understand this by believing he learned about “race” by reading the works of his former colleague Nicholas Wade whose mantle as Times "race" expert Kristof has taken on.
At least the first 20 commenters seem to know the difference between race and racism, but not Kristof.
The day that Nicholas begins one of his Emails by stating that he has looked at Professor Dorothy Robert’s TED talk I may read further. Until then, I won't waste my time?
What will our New York Times expert on “race” do when he learns that Roberts has written a whole book on race the fatal invention of racists and when he learns from the book and from the TED talk that she sees herself as socially black, not African American, and as a member of the only race, the human?
Maybe he will write column no. 8, in which explains why he, Nicholas Kristof, never got it.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen-US SE
16
But Larry--Racism is about race. No getting around that.
1
I read this comment twice and still don't know if, whether, or what the point of it is.
I read the column and understand it completely. Maybe the commenter is just promoting his, her, its own blogspot and dual citizenship. (Yawn).
If there is only one race, then wouldn't "racism" mean the mode of thought and behavior that distinguishes between humans and, say, animals?
If there is only one race then will I get sickle cell anemia?
Words evolve. I understand the word race perfectly as it is used in the editorial.
I read the column and understand it completely. Maybe the commenter is just promoting his, her, its own blogspot and dual citizenship. (Yawn).
If there is only one race, then wouldn't "racism" mean the mode of thought and behavior that distinguishes between humans and, say, animals?
If there is only one race then will I get sickle cell anemia?
Words evolve. I understand the word race perfectly as it is used in the editorial.
@Lundgren
With all due respect I must disagree with you.
Mr. Kristoff has brought up some very valid points in this article (if not in this series) that judging by the reactions of the comments, appears to make some people "uncomfortable", if not defensive.
To be certain, 'Race' and racism still exists in America, in every other part of the world as well -- And yes. Even in Sweden, one look at the 'Sverigedemokraterna' will testify to that, just like anyone with a different skin color can testify as well.
One doesn't need to read a specific book, or hear a specific Professor's talk to know that.
One only needs to look around...and hopefully, learn.
With all due respect I must disagree with you.
Mr. Kristoff has brought up some very valid points in this article (if not in this series) that judging by the reactions of the comments, appears to make some people "uncomfortable", if not defensive.
To be certain, 'Race' and racism still exists in America, in every other part of the world as well -- And yes. Even in Sweden, one look at the 'Sverigedemokraterna' will testify to that, just like anyone with a different skin color can testify as well.
One doesn't need to read a specific book, or hear a specific Professor's talk to know that.
One only needs to look around...and hopefully, learn.
1
"now that it is mainly a white problem, we’re more compassionate and are improving treatment programs."
Who's the "we're" in your statement? The articals written by the NY Times.
"if this were happening to rich white children on the Upper East Side of Manhattan,"
Actually you should pay attention to your colleague Paul Krugman. He ran an article several weeks back stating all was well in the republic under Obama since he saw nothing but good things in his run in the park.
As far as Trump goes, well he is circulating a youtube video showing a young black man punching and knocking out a white women who was just sitting in a park. Trump is saying that is the perfect case for carrying a firearm by individuals for protection. And if you do a little searching you will find many cases where citizens are protecting themselves with firearms. So Kristof, I'm sorry to tell you and Krugman all is not well but sometimes the good guys do win.
Who's the "we're" in your statement? The articals written by the NY Times.
"if this were happening to rich white children on the Upper East Side of Manhattan,"
Actually you should pay attention to your colleague Paul Krugman. He ran an article several weeks back stating all was well in the republic under Obama since he saw nothing but good things in his run in the park.
As far as Trump goes, well he is circulating a youtube video showing a young black man punching and knocking out a white women who was just sitting in a park. Trump is saying that is the perfect case for carrying a firearm by individuals for protection. And if you do a little searching you will find many cases where citizens are protecting themselves with firearms. So Kristof, I'm sorry to tell you and Krugman all is not well but sometimes the good guys do win.
17
"So Kristof, I'm sorry to tell you and Krugman all is not well but sometimes the good guys do win."
Please explain. We can't read your mind--say, in complete sentences, what you want me to understand.
Please explain. We can't read your mind--say, in complete sentences, what you want me to understand.
1
As with most other issues, rights have been gained and times changed through voting. The most important thing any person, black or white can do this year to further civil rights is to VOTE. As an older person, I can tell you yes, times have changed; not as much as we'd like, but the 'old guard' is dying off and the young do not harbor the same animosity, fear and prejudice once common. There is still a long way to go and you can help make it happen by voting. The person you vote for will either move us forward or try to turn back the clock, which are you in favor of?
As laws have changed through leadership determined to make a difference-think JFK, MLK and others-attitudes slowly changed with those laws. Yes, racial profiling, despicable as it is, is alive and well but nothing like it used to be. Voting helped change that. Get out and VOTE, don't let anything stop you.
As laws have changed through leadership determined to make a difference-think JFK, MLK and others-attitudes slowly changed with those laws. Yes, racial profiling, despicable as it is, is alive and well but nothing like it used to be. Voting helped change that. Get out and VOTE, don't let anything stop you.
11
" after 'expert' testimony that he was more likely to commit violent crimes in the future because he was black. What can that be called but racism?"
A correlation between race, poverty and violence? The expert could have been a NY Times op ed writer.
A correlation between race, poverty and violence? The expert could have been a NY Times op ed writer.
11
OK, maybe, but then what do you make of the fact that almost all serial killers, mass killers (Sandy Hook, Columbine, Virginia Tech, etc. etc. etc.) are perpetrated by white males. Most child murderers are either deranged white women or white male sex offenders.
That man was a direct threat to society and likely to commit violent crimes, because he was a SERIAL KILLER who had murdered 3 people in cold blood. It had NOTHING whatsoever to do with his race.
On a daily basis, nightly news cruelly validates the crime statistic that young black men disproportionately dominate the categories of assaults, violent crime and murder. It is the likely cause that "whites don't get it....."
51
Hmmmm. But note that almost all serial killers, mass killers (as in Sandy Hook) and torturers are, sigh, white males. As far as I know there have been only one black serial killer and only one female serial killer (she was white.)
1
Just Thinking,
Be prepared for the inevitable assault from the V.CA. (Violent crime apologists) that frequent these pages. They will come up with a myriad of excuses for this behavior, and why it's not even relevant, so badly deluded are they.
Be prepared for the inevitable assault from the V.CA. (Violent crime apologists) that frequent these pages. They will come up with a myriad of excuses for this behavior, and why it's not even relevant, so badly deluded are they.
3
The fact that President Obama is still the Black President irks me no end. Did we call Reagan White President Reagan or Kennedy Catholic President Kennedy? NO!! This is discrimination and the Whites certainly don't get it!
4
Forty four Presidents and all but one was white. So yes, a black President is a BIG deal and rightly so. It is not an insult.
Back in 1960, Kennedy's Catholic religion WAS a big deal in the campaign....until he set people's fears aside, by saying he would not take orders from the Pope in Rome. But it is not fair to say it wasn't a big deal.
Back in 1960, Kennedy's Catholic religion WAS a big deal in the campaign....until he set people's fears aside, by saying he would not take orders from the Pope in Rome. But it is not fair to say it wasn't a big deal.
1
When Barack Obama's only lasting credit is that he was the first African-American to be elected President of the United States, it is all he has to distinguish himself from the double-handful of singularly unsuccessful people to occupy that office.
Seems, NI, that your view of "race" is far too sensitive to account for reality.
Seems, NI, that your view of "race" is far too sensitive to account for reality.
1
Why, why, why do left wingers like Nicholas Kristof write like this? From Pres. Obama’s “guns and religion” quote, to Mrs. Clinton’s “basket of deplorable” statement with deservedly caused her trouble; cannot issues of racial relations be breached without the painful sophistries and arrogant condensations toward the unwashed white masses?
The very premise of Mr. Kristof’s series, “When whites just don’t get”, is palpably absurd because Mr. Kristof is himself white, so how can he know what white people don’t if being white renders blindness?
And if white people are unconscious racists then what other social pathologies is perhaps Mr. Kristof guilty, but is blithely unaware? I can think up a bunch.
Mr. Kristof, please: people, even white people, are people. We try to be good, but most of time we are rotten. Welcome to the human race, black, white or whatever.
And Mr. Kristof, please; get over yourself.
The very premise of Mr. Kristof’s series, “When whites just don’t get”, is palpably absurd because Mr. Kristof is himself white, so how can he know what white people don’t if being white renders blindness?
And if white people are unconscious racists then what other social pathologies is perhaps Mr. Kristof guilty, but is blithely unaware? I can think up a bunch.
Mr. Kristof, please: people, even white people, are people. We try to be good, but most of time we are rotten. Welcome to the human race, black, white or whatever.
And Mr. Kristof, please; get over yourself.
47
I agree with the premises of Mr. Kristof's argument but I don't appreciate his rhetoric. To him Whites are at fault - apparently ALL whites. I don't agree and he should be embarassed.
26
In the USA in 2016, neither biological sex nor ethnicity alone bestow power.
Money is needed for power.
If you are very, very rich then you can buy almost anyone to do your bidding.
Money is needed for power.
If you are very, very rich then you can buy almost anyone to do your bidding.
12
How many complained when slave labor helped the birth of a nation?
3
150 years ago.
Before anyone alive today existed. Before their parents, grandparents and great-grandparents existed.
My GREAT GRANDMOTHER was born in 1863, so she would have been about 18 months old when Lincoln freed the slaves....and I am 60, so do that math! For my adult children, it is their GREAT GREAT GRANDMOTHER was a tiny infant when slavery ended. She died in 1939, at the age of 87.
DO THE MATH.
Before anyone alive today existed. Before their parents, grandparents and great-grandparents existed.
My GREAT GRANDMOTHER was born in 1863, so she would have been about 18 months old when Lincoln freed the slaves....and I am 60, so do that math! For my adult children, it is their GREAT GREAT GRANDMOTHER was a tiny infant when slavery ended. She died in 1939, at the age of 87.
DO THE MATH.
Actually, you might consider studying some American History of the 1800 to civil war period. The answer to your question is readily available should you care to get beyond empty platitudes and dig into facts.
1
Please spare us the hypocrisy. Nobody wants to make a campaign about race apart from liberals who inject race into every matter.
Tired of these hypocrites lecturing us from their ivory towers.
Tired of these hypocrites lecturing us from their ivory towers.
54
Let's see if we can rethink this battle with some tweaks. Let's stop calling this Racism and aee if we can understand it as Majorityism. If you compare apple to apples and remove the color code our of it it starts to make more sense.
We as an advanced copy of great apes just like them have had a visceral reaction to apes that don't look or act like us. The population living on the periphery and interacting with others have had a better understanding of others and cross cultural pollination of ideas and DNA happens.
Let's give white people a break. Let's not beat them over the head every single day about how they jave not solved this for us. I am a brown man that moved to US over 25 years ago. I have lived among them, with them.
We are headed towards the right direction. We have mode fantastical progress. We own the future. Let's give credit where credit is due and keep working towards our manifest destiny. This is going to be an American century!
We as an advanced copy of great apes just like them have had a visceral reaction to apes that don't look or act like us. The population living on the periphery and interacting with others have had a better understanding of others and cross cultural pollination of ideas and DNA happens.
Let's give white people a break. Let's not beat them over the head every single day about how they jave not solved this for us. I am a brown man that moved to US over 25 years ago. I have lived among them, with them.
We are headed towards the right direction. We have mode fantastical progress. We own the future. Let's give credit where credit is due and keep working towards our manifest destiny. This is going to be an American century!
8
When Hillary Clinton said, in the debate, “I think implicit bias is a problem for everyone, not just police.", David French of the National Review freaked right out, saying this kind of talk is a dangerous progressive idea and should scare every American. He goes on to do a ferocious tap dance about how wrong and impossible any sort of remedy is to apply, as if increased police training is some sort of nefarious liberty-stealing act.
I felt relief as I read your article, Nick, as I often do when I read something true, something named. But we have Harvard educated potential Presidential candidates bending over backwards to deny that unconscious bias exists. I fear that conservatives are utterly foot-stomping blind to their own bias, never mind systemic. After all, Chief Justice Roberts, while gutting the Voting Rights Act, said that "things have changed dramatically," dispelling the need for its protections. But we've all seen the results of that.
I felt relief as I read your article, Nick, as I often do when I read something true, something named. But we have Harvard educated potential Presidential candidates bending over backwards to deny that unconscious bias exists. I fear that conservatives are utterly foot-stomping blind to their own bias, never mind systemic. After all, Chief Justice Roberts, while gutting the Voting Rights Act, said that "things have changed dramatically," dispelling the need for its protections. But we've all seen the results of that.
5
EASabo - "I fear that conservatives are utterly foot-stomping blind to their own bias, never mind systemic."
Please don't fear! Your obvious bias towards conservatives has blinded you to the fact that all conservatives DO NOT have the particular bias that you think they have. Try dealing with people as individuals instead of painting them all with the same brush, which is a form of bigotry!
Please don't fear! Your obvious bias towards conservatives has blinded you to the fact that all conservatives DO NOT have the particular bias that you think they have. Try dealing with people as individuals instead of painting them all with the same brush, which is a form of bigotry!
2
I work with many black professionals. I don't have a problem. They don't have a problem. It's all class not race.
28
"In one study by scholars at Portland State University and the University of Arizona, three black men and three white men played pedestrians trying to cross a street at a crosswalk. On average, a black pedestrian was passed by twice as many vehicles before a driver yielded."
I am aware of this study and it was not even remotely scientifically sound. If you want to make reference then why not stick to studies that pass some rigor and bias tests. BTW, in 1991 Yankel Rosenbaum was walking down the street minding his own business when a mob attacked him and stabbed him to death while yelling anti-Jewish slurs. Your paper refers to it as "a dispute between communities" "a fight between blacks and Jews" and "blacks rioted when a black child died in a car accident caused by a Jewish driver" (in the later description the article doesn't once mention the hate crimes against Jews that occurred, even the two murders). Anthony Graziosi is a good example of a victim of racial profiling (he was mistakenly believed to be a Jew due to the hat he was wearing). How about bringing this hypocrisy out into the light? The Smithsonian has Trayvon Martin's hoodie due to the claim he was killed due to what he was wearing. I wonder why they don't have the hats worn by Rosenbaum and Graziosi, that is what motivated their killers to target them. It identified them as Jews.
I am aware of this study and it was not even remotely scientifically sound. If you want to make reference then why not stick to studies that pass some rigor and bias tests. BTW, in 1991 Yankel Rosenbaum was walking down the street minding his own business when a mob attacked him and stabbed him to death while yelling anti-Jewish slurs. Your paper refers to it as "a dispute between communities" "a fight between blacks and Jews" and "blacks rioted when a black child died in a car accident caused by a Jewish driver" (in the later description the article doesn't once mention the hate crimes against Jews that occurred, even the two murders). Anthony Graziosi is a good example of a victim of racial profiling (he was mistakenly believed to be a Jew due to the hat he was wearing). How about bringing this hypocrisy out into the light? The Smithsonian has Trayvon Martin's hoodie due to the claim he was killed due to what he was wearing. I wonder why they don't have the hats worn by Rosenbaum and Graziosi, that is what motivated their killers to target them. It identified them as Jews.
25
Everyone hop on the victim train! All Aboard! America will be vastly improved when people stop seeing themselves primarily as victims. This is still the land of opportunity, and anyone who wants to harness it is welcome to do so.
2
A study done a few times, with only 6 participants is not very convincing. Where was it conducted? did the researchers note the race of the drivers who did not stop? The types of vehicles they were driving? For all we know, it was BLACK drivers refusing to yield to BLACK walkers.
This is typical of such studies. They start out biased. The "researchers" are typically guilty liberal white liberals, who want to curry favor with their guilty liberal white or black professors, and the establishment (as it exists on campuses across the US). If they had come back and said, "really, there is no difference" OR "black walkers were not mistreated"....they'd have no paper and no fame. By blaming whites, or claiming bias, they get patted on the back and have their paper published and get quoted in the NYT!
So which do you think they want? Research today is problematical, because it is twisted by political ideology on college campuses that are overwhelmingly hard left liberal.
This is typical of such studies. They start out biased. The "researchers" are typically guilty liberal white liberals, who want to curry favor with their guilty liberal white or black professors, and the establishment (as it exists on campuses across the US). If they had come back and said, "really, there is no difference" OR "black walkers were not mistreated"....they'd have no paper and no fame. By blaming whites, or claiming bias, they get patted on the back and have their paper published and get quoted in the NYT!
So which do you think they want? Research today is problematical, because it is twisted by political ideology on college campuses that are overwhelmingly hard left liberal.
4
From someone who was actually present during the Crown Heights 'riots', the 'riot' DID NOT start merely because of a car accident. It started because the Hatzalah - the Jewish ambulance - was the first ambulance to arrive on the scene & they started working on the barely hurt Jewish man who was involved in the accident instead of the dying child in the street.
I don't know if the news stations prefer to portray Black people as being ignorant because only ignorant people would start a riot over an accident. Had the ambulance worked on the little dying Black boy instead of the Jewish man than the riot would never have happened.
Imagine how Black people felt - overlooked, unimportant, unworthy, etc - for an ambulance to ignore a dying child & work on the Jewish man?
I don't know if the news stations prefer to portray Black people as being ignorant because only ignorant people would start a riot over an accident. Had the ambulance worked on the little dying Black boy instead of the Jewish man than the riot would never have happened.
Imagine how Black people felt - overlooked, unimportant, unworthy, etc - for an ambulance to ignore a dying child & work on the Jewish man?
1
I applaud your willingness to discuss these difficult and uncomfortable issues. I can't see racism being eradicated for the reason you cite - Whites are unwilling to admit their culpability in the perpetuation of individual and institutional racism.
7
To begin with, this presidential campaign is not: "in part about race".
When you have a candidate that's endorsed by a White supremacist group like the Ku Klux Klan, it's ALL about race -- And anyone who thinks otherwise, is also apt to tell you that Donald Trump is successful in winning over the Black vote.
He's not.
It's bad enough that Mr. Trump stuck with the "Birther" movement for five years before trying to pin it all on Clinton, but his incessant depiction of African-Amercans as being impoverished, violent, and seething in ghettos -- just so that he can save the (White) world from them, with "Law & Order" tactics is beyond credulity, let alone any merit.
And vilifying an entire race just to win points, is not a strategy or discerning characteristic one would normally seek in a President.
But evidently, there are millions of White Americans who buy into this Trumpian phantasy, believing that the county is doomed -- and he is the only one who can save it.
If anything, this among everything else just goes to show that Whites still don't get it.
And there's no reason to think that under Donald Trump's vituperative tutorage, they ever will.
When you have a candidate that's endorsed by a White supremacist group like the Ku Klux Klan, it's ALL about race -- And anyone who thinks otherwise, is also apt to tell you that Donald Trump is successful in winning over the Black vote.
He's not.
It's bad enough that Mr. Trump stuck with the "Birther" movement for five years before trying to pin it all on Clinton, but his incessant depiction of African-Amercans as being impoverished, violent, and seething in ghettos -- just so that he can save the (White) world from them, with "Law & Order" tactics is beyond credulity, let alone any merit.
And vilifying an entire race just to win points, is not a strategy or discerning characteristic one would normally seek in a President.
But evidently, there are millions of White Americans who buy into this Trumpian phantasy, believing that the county is doomed -- and he is the only one who can save it.
If anything, this among everything else just goes to show that Whites still don't get it.
And there's no reason to think that under Donald Trump's vituperative tutorage, they ever will.
109
The NYT has done a pretty remarkable job over THE YEARS depicting many (not all) black Americans as poor and disadvantaged.
You cannot have it both ways. You can't claim misery and disadvantage, and an unfair playing field....then ALSO CLAIM that most blacks are middle class and successful, and resent being identified that way.
Also, Mr. Trump has not said anything remotely like what you suggest. Allegations of his "racism" are 45 year old claims of his FATHER'S bias in renting apartments to black tenants. Trump was a young man then, and worked directly for his father. He has no record of racism, or bigotry against black people, and has never said "blacks are all in ghettos".
You cannot have it both ways. You can't claim misery and disadvantage, and an unfair playing field....then ALSO CLAIM that most blacks are middle class and successful, and resent being identified that way.
Also, Mr. Trump has not said anything remotely like what you suggest. Allegations of his "racism" are 45 year old claims of his FATHER'S bias in renting apartments to black tenants. Trump was a young man then, and worked directly for his father. He has no record of racism, or bigotry against black people, and has never said "blacks are all in ghettos".
1
Wait a minute.
This election cycle is all about MONEY.
When you have a candidate who is endorsed by the upper echelons of the Forbes Richest, a candidate who lunches with the 0.0001%, vacations with the 0.001%, and IS a 0.001%, then the presidential race is not about RACE, it is about MONEY.
The only people who give a squat about the KKK are the creepy KKK and the Dimocrats who want to keep the political outsider on the outside. Because the outsider threatens their stranglehold on the MONEY.
This election cycle is all about MONEY.
When you have a candidate who is endorsed by the upper echelons of the Forbes Richest, a candidate who lunches with the 0.0001%, vacations with the 0.001%, and IS a 0.001%, then the presidential race is not about RACE, it is about MONEY.
The only people who give a squat about the KKK are the creepy KKK and the Dimocrats who want to keep the political outsider on the outside. Because the outsider threatens their stranglehold on the MONEY.
Racism evolves. Its tenacity is a part of its duplicity and danger. Racism is more than discrimination, bias, or bigotry; it's a system. Racism is a system that withholds benefits from an ethnic group and limits freedom and merit-opportunities while advancing the power and wealth of another group. A part of that system for decades was the welfare trap. It worked in two ways: it concealed the absence of jobs in inner cities and rural areas, therefore not providing employment for people seeking to work; its paltry income (designed to maintain inequity!) created a target of resentment for whites who were working at higher salaries.
Nick outlines the new thinking on race, the post-racial myth. It too is part of the system; it also conceals the structural and systemic problems that are active differences of power and wealth. Here's a powerful insight about how the system is perpetuated as it is protested:
"The media plays its part in stoking the flames of slander by using its tools to display the choreographed mayhem on a loop until, in the public consciousness, our marginalization becomes synonymous with terrorism. And the real terrorists remain cloaked in the flow of our blood, which is their sustenance, and the society remains anesthetized in its drug of choice: innocence."
For a deeper view, please read my new post: A Readers' Guide To Recognizing Racism's Most Powerful Tactic [http://crooksandliars.com/2016/09/readers-guide-recognizing-racisms-most].
Nick outlines the new thinking on race, the post-racial myth. It too is part of the system; it also conceals the structural and systemic problems that are active differences of power and wealth. Here's a powerful insight about how the system is perpetuated as it is protested:
"The media plays its part in stoking the flames of slander by using its tools to display the choreographed mayhem on a loop until, in the public consciousness, our marginalization becomes synonymous with terrorism. And the real terrorists remain cloaked in the flow of our blood, which is their sustenance, and the society remains anesthetized in its drug of choice: innocence."
For a deeper view, please read my new post: A Readers' Guide To Recognizing Racism's Most Powerful Tactic [http://crooksandliars.com/2016/09/readers-guide-recognizing-racisms-most].
28
Walter:
Thoughtful people of all complexions recognize that racism is pervasive and sometimes quite subtle while remaining impactful. We read prices such as Kristof's and comments such as yours with some frustration, because we've plumbed our own imaginations and found few ways to attack racism in a retail way other than manhandling impoverished minorities into the middle-classes over time through effective public education. Largely eliminate the class differences and you'll go some distance to mitigating automatic racial prejudice. But it's not a recipe for eliminating it entirely, and it's multi-generational in duration.
As with my own comment to this piece, I must note here that yours is as much a recitation of what many of us already know as Kristof's piece, but doesn't offer a solution better than mine.
Thoughtful people of all complexions recognize that racism is pervasive and sometimes quite subtle while remaining impactful. We read prices such as Kristof's and comments such as yours with some frustration, because we've plumbed our own imaginations and found few ways to attack racism in a retail way other than manhandling impoverished minorities into the middle-classes over time through effective public education. Largely eliminate the class differences and you'll go some distance to mitigating automatic racial prejudice. But it's not a recipe for eliminating it entirely, and it's multi-generational in duration.
As with my own comment to this piece, I must note here that yours is as much a recitation of what many of us already know as Kristof's piece, but doesn't offer a solution better than mine.
Mr Rhett, I always read your posts because they are intelligent and articulate. I read your post on "A Reader's Guide..."
You posit well thought through assertions regarding what you believe constitutes the role denial plays in the "system of racism" in this country. Quite accurately you anchor the issue in the era of slavery and the role played by Taney's court to define those of African descent not just as non-citizens, but as a lower class of human beings. All Americans should read through the history of the country especially during the period of 1800 through 1930s to better appreciate the impact of slavery on our economy and on our collective morality. Reading through the arguments in Congress during the Taney days about slavery and the humanity of blacks is sobering reading for any thinking person. Racism doesn't begin to define the period.
I have problems with arguments that contend that racism is a system in force in today's world. Nowhere in your post, nor in Mr Kristof's columns do you define what you mean as a system. Both of you cite outcomes in income gaps, conviction rates, educational achievements but never do you define the "system" in ways other than conclusions. Outcomes are not necessarily causals and do not constitute definitions.
Hence, as a white person who did march with MLK, who did confront the KKK in southern Indiana, who grew up in a multiracial project neighborhood, I would appreciate your defining your terms in root causes.
You posit well thought through assertions regarding what you believe constitutes the role denial plays in the "system of racism" in this country. Quite accurately you anchor the issue in the era of slavery and the role played by Taney's court to define those of African descent not just as non-citizens, but as a lower class of human beings. All Americans should read through the history of the country especially during the period of 1800 through 1930s to better appreciate the impact of slavery on our economy and on our collective morality. Reading through the arguments in Congress during the Taney days about slavery and the humanity of blacks is sobering reading for any thinking person. Racism doesn't begin to define the period.
I have problems with arguments that contend that racism is a system in force in today's world. Nowhere in your post, nor in Mr Kristof's columns do you define what you mean as a system. Both of you cite outcomes in income gaps, conviction rates, educational achievements but never do you define the "system" in ways other than conclusions. Outcomes are not necessarily causals and do not constitute definitions.
Hence, as a white person who did march with MLK, who did confront the KKK in southern Indiana, who grew up in a multiracial project neighborhood, I would appreciate your defining your terms in root causes.
1
"designed to maintain inequity!"
I'm surprised no comment has yet to disparage that statement, perhaps because its shocking in its truthfulness.
Maintaining inequity, is an elite tool/weapon; without it, the masters lose control.
I believe we, the United States of America, have started on the down side of the curve, as all empires eventually do, and given the fact that our population exceeds 325 million people, and growing, desperate to get a piece of the dwindling pie, our descent into chaos and anarchy will become uncontainable.
We can stop it, but only if the elites see that their survival is dependent on the mood of the people.
The power to end inequity exists here in America; it always has, but unbridled avarice has kept it at bay.
I'm surprised no comment has yet to disparage that statement, perhaps because its shocking in its truthfulness.
Maintaining inequity, is an elite tool/weapon; without it, the masters lose control.
I believe we, the United States of America, have started on the down side of the curve, as all empires eventually do, and given the fact that our population exceeds 325 million people, and growing, desperate to get a piece of the dwindling pie, our descent into chaos and anarchy will become uncontainable.
We can stop it, but only if the elites see that their survival is dependent on the mood of the people.
The power to end inequity exists here in America; it always has, but unbridled avarice has kept it at bay.
1
Teenage pregnancy and broken families are problems of poor people, and for historical reasons a greater percentage of blacks are poor. But we are nasty to all our poor, not just our black poor. Personal responsibility is failing in both black and white communities, primarily because the economic foundations for personal responsibility are disappearing. We vastly prefer to talk about race problems rather than class problems. If our black poor and white poor are treated equally badly, this does not make the bad treatment acceptable. Or does it?
41
Not a bad argument; and not a bad question. I guess I'd respond this way.
Treating white and black poor equally isn't what's really happening.
In a white impoverished family, it can take one exceptional member who succeeds to save the entire family, and create the prospect that it never again will be impoverished. And saved members of that family, and both the exceptional member and his children, will never need to overcome the stigma in the eyes of whites of a black face to remain middle-class and aspire to better.
But take an exceptional member of a black family: today, that person has enough societal support to have a chance at escaping the ghetto and even of saving his family from perpetual impoverishment. But that exceptional member and his children, as well as the entire family, always will need to overcome implicit prejudice to remain in the middle-class and not sink back into impoverishment.
So long as the family continues to produce exceptional children, the economic challenge is lessened; but by the very meaning of "exceptional", most people aren't -- black OR white. That implicit racism in white society serves as a multi-level barrier to mainstreaming our black population and getting them sustainably out of poverty.
Of course, like Walter Rhett and Nicholas Kristof, I may understand the problem but I'm no closer than they to an actionable solution.
Treating white and black poor equally isn't what's really happening.
In a white impoverished family, it can take one exceptional member who succeeds to save the entire family, and create the prospect that it never again will be impoverished. And saved members of that family, and both the exceptional member and his children, will never need to overcome the stigma in the eyes of whites of a black face to remain middle-class and aspire to better.
But take an exceptional member of a black family: today, that person has enough societal support to have a chance at escaping the ghetto and even of saving his family from perpetual impoverishment. But that exceptional member and his children, as well as the entire family, always will need to overcome implicit prejudice to remain in the middle-class and not sink back into impoverishment.
So long as the family continues to produce exceptional children, the economic challenge is lessened; but by the very meaning of "exceptional", most people aren't -- black OR white. That implicit racism in white society serves as a multi-level barrier to mainstreaming our black population and getting them sustainably out of poverty.
Of course, like Walter Rhett and Nicholas Kristof, I may understand the problem but I'm no closer than they to an actionable solution.
2
It is difficult to address your deep ingrained beliefs. Jesus said that the poor will always be with us, we cannot change that, never will. The only thing we can do is create opportunity for the most people we can. That is done by tax cuts, less spending and less regulation. The alternative is socialism and communism. Where has that worked? Frankly, North Korea, Zimbabway (sic), and Venezuela scare me.
"..while inner-city black kids disproportionally get a third-rate education."
It all goes back to education and development. How can you educate a minority student with a single mom who works two or three jobs a day and lives in an area infested with gangs and crime? It's in these cases where we either go ALL IN and start boarding schools for these kids or we continue to read articles about inequality and missed opportunity.
It all goes back to education and development. How can you educate a minority student with a single mom who works two or three jobs a day and lives in an area infested with gangs and crime? It's in these cases where we either go ALL IN and start boarding schools for these kids or we continue to read articles about inequality and missed opportunity.
18
Inner city schools have all-black school boards, and nearly all-black teachers. Now what?
1
Invisible white privilege has a corollary in invisible male privilege.
21
I think the ubiquity of this type of comment are what causes trump supporters to feel like white males are being marginalized. It's far more complicated than that in our diverse country but everywhere in the media they're being told that white males are getting some type of special superior treatment. People openly profile and judge white males who are over a certain age as being sexist and racist prior to seeing evidence. The reality is that it's elites like Mr. Kristof that enjoy the spoils of white maledom while Joe Six-Pack just lives an ordinary life that's not much different from his non-white and his female counterparts.
2
Somehow it seems unlikely that men of color suffer from invisible male privilege
Please, please tell us why you live in Scarsdale rather than White Plains or New Rochelle? For those not from the New York area, Scarsdale, like Chappaqua where the Clintons chose to live, has NO African-Americans or Hispanics. White Plains and New Rochelle are adjacent, integrated towns with good transit and housing options.
96
How is his residence relevant
There are no black people living in Scarsdale? Where do you people come up with this nonsense and lies?
Not in defense of living in Scarsdale, White Plains and New Rochelle, but it is a fact that across the nation there are many white only, gated communities that literally exclude blacks. They exclude them not only by virtue of the high prices but also by posting signs, visible large print signs that clearly state the community is "restricted" to 55 year olds. No, that's not the truth. The restricted 55 year old retirement communities are really whites only.
I live in one in The Villages Florida. There are no drugs, no crime, no violence, no domestic violence and the streets are free from gun fire despite almost every homeowner having 4-8 firearms. There are also no blacks. Not even more than few black workers. The labor force is mostly South American or Mexican. They don't have homes in The Villages or other all white communities either.
We live in these communities because we can live without fear not just without responsibility to blacks.
The racial divide is real and continues. Its not because of racism alone. Its because we want safety and no crime. Sadly we know what will happen if the communities begin integration. Is that really racism or is it survival and protection of our way of life, community and family?
I live in one in The Villages Florida. There are no drugs, no crime, no violence, no domestic violence and the streets are free from gun fire despite almost every homeowner having 4-8 firearms. There are also no blacks. Not even more than few black workers. The labor force is mostly South American or Mexican. They don't have homes in The Villages or other all white communities either.
We live in these communities because we can live without fear not just without responsibility to blacks.
The racial divide is real and continues. Its not because of racism alone. Its because we want safety and no crime. Sadly we know what will happen if the communities begin integration. Is that really racism or is it survival and protection of our way of life, community and family?
5
Over forty years ago I learnt a lesson that has been burnt into memory since. As (white) child of the times a thought of myself as open-minded, completely free of any racial sentiment, giving a personal history of living from childhood in different countries. I was a very socializing child, getting along with age-mates even in communist Russia (as a son of a Western diplomat or, as the Soviets would have it, a "professional spy). Later I was, the first of many times in beloved Brazil, dancing madly at Carnival as it happens with - how would the neo-Duce put it ─ a "gorgeous mulata". Asking her what she was doing professionally she said she worked at a hospital.. "Oh, you are a nurse?" "No, I am a doctor."
Those who live in glass-houses, should not throw stones ....
Those who live in glass-houses, should not throw stones ....
11
How is that racist? Forty years ago, female doctors were fairly rare in the US and probably extremely rare in a third world country like Brazil.
White female doctors in the US back then were frequently asked "are you the nurse?" I'd say this was commonplace up until the late 70s.
You can say it is sexist...but not racist.
White female doctors in the US back then were frequently asked "are you the nurse?" I'd say this was commonplace up until the late 70s.
You can say it is sexist...but not racist.
I wish Nick Kristof would stop playing the race card already. This series which does nothing but widen the gap between the races is getting old and tedious. Well Whites are getting sick and tired of being blamed for everything from slavery to substandard schools in the inner cities by elitist columnists who live in an ivory tower. Prejudice is a two way street. Exactly where is this white skin privilege I'm supposed to enjoy??? Nick Kristof is a predator who preys on White liberal guilt as a convenient excuse for everything.
91
So your answer is just stop? Stop, accept your views. Everything will work out.
Fat chance
Fat chance
2
Dear 5101: Whites did colonize and demonize the non-white world. Racism is so much a part of our culture and history that we are blind to it. Whites have and still benefit from the work and natural resources from the countries Europe colonized. And now the industrial, oil based culture, Europeans have spread across the globe, are poisoning the earth. Whites still use more resources and produce more CO2 than any. It is time for us to understand white history and make amends. Whites were and are guilty, liberal or conservative.
2
A honest and truthful perspective about "personal responsibility" lies at the heart of any discussion about racial problems in America not Kristof's politically correct and one sided analysis.
Many older white people are tired of being blamed for every unfortunate thing that happens or claims to happen to African Americans.
There is no conspiracy to single out Blacks in America because that is the popular fashion of thought in America.
Many older white people are tired of being blamed for every unfortunate thing that happens or claims to happen to African Americans.
There is no conspiracy to single out Blacks in America because that is the popular fashion of thought in America.
1
Spot on. Hard hitting truth article!
12
Who exactly are "we," Mr. Kristof? Are you saying that ALL "whites" bear equal responsibility for the social pathology of the black underclass, regardless of differences in class, ethnicity and power? Do blacks have responsibility for anything at all? Define "black" and "white."
95
Well, the counter argument is often that "all" blacks are shiftless and such! I hear it often, don't you?
1
No. In America at the present time African Americans can claim any type of discrimination real or imagined and find a bunch of well intentioned but misled white liberals like Kristoff to rally behind them.
I've met many respectable African Americans in my 71 years of life and while I know there are racial stereotypes that control people's thinking among all races, people are pretty much--not always--where they put themselves in life.
Unfortunately, it's articles like Kristoff's that alienate white voters and they then stupidly follow a con man and racist like Donald Trump.
Many of us are tired of being talked down to by guys like Kristoff and Bill Maher who recently had some blowhard black guy on his show translating for us "poor, ignorant white folk" what Beyoncé of all people said in one of her songs. As if she somehow has a profound message to teach us dumb white people about anything except her popularity.
I've met many respectable African Americans in my 71 years of life and while I know there are racial stereotypes that control people's thinking among all races, people are pretty much--not always--where they put themselves in life.
Unfortunately, it's articles like Kristoff's that alienate white voters and they then stupidly follow a con man and racist like Donald Trump.
Many of us are tired of being talked down to by guys like Kristoff and Bill Maher who recently had some blowhard black guy on his show translating for us "poor, ignorant white folk" what Beyoncé of all people said in one of her songs. As if she somehow has a profound message to teach us dumb white people about anything except her popularity.
4
Your brush of tar, Mr. Kristoff, makes assumptions that play well with your liberal audience. But it is far too wide and inexpertly wielded.
I find your remarks offensive. They also don't describe the world in which I live, and, I would suggest, the world in which millions of other live.
...And, you wonder why so many people are coalescing around a voice that doesn't denigrate them.
I find your remarks offensive. They also don't describe the world in which I live, and, I would suggest, the world in which millions of other live.
...And, you wonder why so many people are coalescing around a voice that doesn't denigrate them.
74
If Trump hasn't denigrated you yet, don't worry. He will.
2
Hillary certainly has...Several times.
1
Nicholas Kristof is a very compassionate human being who tells it like it is
12
Hilary Clinton called young, black men 'superpredators', and according to the NYT, HC never lies.
Democrats and Republicans have the same prejudices. The difference is, your white, middle class D feels guilty about their prejudices and overcompensates - hence the support for rioters, looters, BLM, and reparations.
Democrats and Republicans have the same prejudices. The difference is, your white, middle class D feels guilty about their prejudices and overcompensates - hence the support for rioters, looters, BLM, and reparations.
49
I have never read anywhere in the NYT that Hillary never lies. Obviously you are living in a delusional trumpian fantasy land.
2
When does the 'When Blacks Just Don't Get It' series start?
122
That's a series that will never be written.
1
It started the day my ancestors arrived here in chains! Contained after slavery with lynchings and Jim Crow. Continued into WW2, when my late Father's generation had to fight for the right to defend this country, yet faced widespread, systematic discrimination upon their return, continued into the 1970s, when learned that our own government was injecting black farmers with a deadly disease. These are facts I'm sure you don't want to hear!
5
"When does the 'When Blacks Just Don't Get It' series start?"
It started around 1865, when black Americans "just didn't get" the full freedom and protection of the U.S. Constitution they were finally promised.
It started around 1865, when black Americans "just didn't get" the full freedom and protection of the U.S. Constitution they were finally promised.
4
I'm reminded of Mark Twain's famous quote: "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes."
For years now we've seen reliable statistics proving the systemic racism Mr. Kristof describes herein but millions of Americans continue to believe that not only is this racism toward blacks nonexistent, but there is much worse racism against whites. Meanwhile it took 30 minutes for about the same number of Americans to believe that Obama is a Kenyan-born Muslim - and no amount of proof of his legitimacy manages to break through that bubble.
Mr. Kristof is absolutely correct: whites really don't get it. But what he doesn't say out loud is the even more tragic truth: it's because they just don't want to.
For years now we've seen reliable statistics proving the systemic racism Mr. Kristof describes herein but millions of Americans continue to believe that not only is this racism toward blacks nonexistent, but there is much worse racism against whites. Meanwhile it took 30 minutes for about the same number of Americans to believe that Obama is a Kenyan-born Muslim - and no amount of proof of his legitimacy manages to break through that bubble.
Mr. Kristof is absolutely correct: whites really don't get it. But what he doesn't say out loud is the even more tragic truth: it's because they just don't want to.
72
But what he doesn't say out loud is the even more tragic truth:
"it's because they just don't want to".
Exactly.
Nor will they ever, "want to", especially the older thick skinned ignoramusess, the shameless bigots who permeate society.
"it's because they just don't want to".
Exactly.
Nor will they ever, "want to", especially the older thick skinned ignoramusess, the shameless bigots who permeate society.
1
I'll go one better, by concentrating on the link between Mr. Trump and racism, you minimize the significance of his candidacy. That there is ample evidence of racism in his campaign, as well as throughout American society, is, and should have been obvious. That there is such surprise it could rear its ugly head within the sacred and protected path of a presidential candidacy is more revealing. How dare he debase such hallowed ground! In truth, he likely does us a favor by exposing the pervasiveness, but more importantly, the insidiousness of not just racism, but frustration and anger within a huge portion of Americans for the hand they've been dealt. All trussed up in the ceremonial garb of politics and politicians as usual, we have been missing, or choosing to miss, that something is not quite right in Everyplace, USA. Racism may actually be the problem we've simply grown accustomed to discussing in forums such as this in an unconscious attempt to avoid discussing the inequalities and distrust that are its foundation.
It seems a close look at These and All the Truths that we hold Self Evident is appropriate.
It seems a close look at These and All the Truths that we hold Self Evident is appropriate.
The great divide I have witnessed is between psychopath and neurotics. The neurotics are envious of psychopaths. Sure there is racial and sexual discriminations but saying that HRC is a victim is ludicrous. She really believed that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. She was not that stupid and believed the books were cooked. She is a power hungry psychopath and I am given the chance in a "free" society to vote for another psychopath, Trump.
13
"We all know that in some fundamental way, this presidential campaign is in part about race."
While I agree that race is a big part of the presidential contest, another significant aspect to it is the perceived emasculation of male breadwinners. This is not "I have contempt towards women" kind of misogyny - its the feeling of being a failure as a man because they cannot support their families. Their wives don't work out of choice to fulfill themselves as the media might have you think - they work because they must work to support the family. And their wives don't like it either.
They compensate by dressing in camo and strutting around with AR-15s or clustering around tough talkers thinking that some of the toughness will rub off on them. And vote for guys like Donald Trump.
While I agree that race is a big part of the presidential contest, another significant aspect to it is the perceived emasculation of male breadwinners. This is not "I have contempt towards women" kind of misogyny - its the feeling of being a failure as a man because they cannot support their families. Their wives don't work out of choice to fulfill themselves as the media might have you think - they work because they must work to support the family. And their wives don't like it either.
They compensate by dressing in camo and strutting around with AR-15s or clustering around tough talkers thinking that some of the toughness will rub off on them. And vote for guys like Donald Trump.
10
Mr. Kristof, I think that most white Americans--in the abstract, mind--would recoil in horror if they somehow came to the conclusion that they're bigots.
I've known white folks who are Red Sox and Patriots fans--just like I am--and would be quite upset to be shamed as a hater. I've heard them say stuff like "I'm not a racist, the Patriots have black players and I love them." But trying to explain the difference between viewing a non-white person from afar and another up close is a real reach.
It's context. The black Patriots or Sox player is largely well known and celebrated. The anonymous non-white, waiting for a bus, is far more likely to be called the "n-word" by a passing car full of whites because he (or she) is a "stranger," "the other," unworthy of the ordinary courtesies and small deferences that we must make to one another if we are to acknowledge our own individual and collective failings.
Unless one is an unrepentant racist, that is, a member of a group notorious for violence or separatism, or is a member of a political party that makes no apologies for policies that are clearly harmful to minority groups--like extremely strict voter ID laws that don't apply to whites, for example--most white Americans think the system works well (for them); if a non-white person has a problem, it's thought to be unimportant. Their response is likely to be "so what"? It's your problem, not mine," when they really mean is "not ours."
I've known white folks who are Red Sox and Patriots fans--just like I am--and would be quite upset to be shamed as a hater. I've heard them say stuff like "I'm not a racist, the Patriots have black players and I love them." But trying to explain the difference between viewing a non-white person from afar and another up close is a real reach.
It's context. The black Patriots or Sox player is largely well known and celebrated. The anonymous non-white, waiting for a bus, is far more likely to be called the "n-word" by a passing car full of whites because he (or she) is a "stranger," "the other," unworthy of the ordinary courtesies and small deferences that we must make to one another if we are to acknowledge our own individual and collective failings.
Unless one is an unrepentant racist, that is, a member of a group notorious for violence or separatism, or is a member of a political party that makes no apologies for policies that are clearly harmful to minority groups--like extremely strict voter ID laws that don't apply to whites, for example--most white Americans think the system works well (for them); if a non-white person has a problem, it's thought to be unimportant. Their response is likely to be "so what"? It's your problem, not mine," when they really mean is "not ours."
18
When a black man is shot by police, the first question addressed (by the non-black community) is "did he have a gun?" If the answer is "yes," all the questioners calm down. This is at the same time as everyone in the Republican party is insisting on a perpetual, unfettered right for anyone (white people, I guess) to carry guns at all times.
No one on the right sees the hypocrisy? The NRA never makes pronouncements about the black victims rights being trampled on by the police? No one wonders why Ammon Bundy wasn't shot dead the moment he walked in view of a policeman?
We really still don't understand that there is significant, insidious, institutional bias in this country against black people? How can this obvious fact be denied?
No one on the right sees the hypocrisy? The NRA never makes pronouncements about the black victims rights being trampled on by the police? No one wonders why Ammon Bundy wasn't shot dead the moment he walked in view of a policeman?
We really still don't understand that there is significant, insidious, institutional bias in this country against black people? How can this obvious fact be denied?
24
It cannot be denied; its there like 10,000 elephants, on a rampage.
America laid its foundations through using and abusing blacks kidnapped from their homelands, herded them like livestock, onto coffin ships, bred them, sold them at public auctions, raped, mutilated, and murdered them, and even our early "educated" politicians, and Presidents, owned slaves, and fathered children with the black women they raped.
Today slavery is continued, except in a more "acceptable", and subtle way, through economic deprivation, rampant inequality, now extended to cover all ethnicities, including white Americans, the poor and the middle class.
God help us, because it certainly looks like we are lost.
America laid its foundations through using and abusing blacks kidnapped from their homelands, herded them like livestock, onto coffin ships, bred them, sold them at public auctions, raped, mutilated, and murdered them, and even our early "educated" politicians, and Presidents, owned slaves, and fathered children with the black women they raped.
Today slavery is continued, except in a more "acceptable", and subtle way, through economic deprivation, rampant inequality, now extended to cover all ethnicities, including white Americans, the poor and the middle class.
God help us, because it certainly looks like we are lost.
2
United States is a multy race society where pressure is kept on maintaining civility to keep moving us forward and not to fall into the perils of sectarian rivalries.
This race discontent exists all over the world, but not country is as successful in managing it as United States.
Smart and principled politicians have always known that it is easier to divide us than unite us, and had worked relentlessly on this endeavor to prevent a slippery slope into the abyss of race conflicts and sectarian chaos.
Here, comes a con man that wants to be president, and exploits the issues that divide us and diminish us as Americans for his personal gain.
What he is doing is a con, the shame is in his party members that are silently standing behind him.
He is using national socialist tactics to divide the country and lead us into chaos, and sectarianism.
This con man has his own Goebbels on Pence, his running mate.
Pence is even more extreme than the con man.
This race discontent exists all over the world, but not country is as successful in managing it as United States.
Smart and principled politicians have always known that it is easier to divide us than unite us, and had worked relentlessly on this endeavor to prevent a slippery slope into the abyss of race conflicts and sectarian chaos.
Here, comes a con man that wants to be president, and exploits the issues that divide us and diminish us as Americans for his personal gain.
What he is doing is a con, the shame is in his party members that are silently standing behind him.
He is using national socialist tactics to divide the country and lead us into chaos, and sectarianism.
This con man has his own Goebbels on Pence, his running mate.
Pence is even more extreme than the con man.
7
The racism still exists as I first observed it in my own family 63 years ago when I was told "he'd get the sheets dirty" in response to my request to have my roommate visit over a holiday. I saw it most memorably in 1967, almost 50 years ago to this date , when I told my Indian office mate "they think you're black" when he had difficulty finding a place to live. Because it has been my lifelong concern, I am attending a local Community Relations dinner Monday night here in Lowell to help support my friends from Ghana and Cameroons, with hopes things will change.
7
It is good to point out the racism of white America, but then one has to ask for the reasons it exists. The reasons for racism were always largely economic. It was used by imperialist countries to justify their exploitation of Africans and native Americans. It was used to justify the profitable institution of slavery. In the US rich Southern planters kept the poor whites distracted by stoking their hatred of the blacks.
Today racism is used in our politics to distract us from the class war. There is a major class war going on but only the upper class is fighting it. The obvious political lineup should be economic winners versus economic losers. Today the winners are a rapidly shrinking minority, and if this was a functioning democracy the playing field would be leveled out. But since the Democratic Party has been bought by the rich it can't make an issue of it. So it has come to rely on identity politics, appealing to women and minorities. It is true that women and minorities are treated unfairly, but identity politics splits the non-rich classes and obscures the class war. As women and minorities claw back their fair share of a shrinking pie, white men's incomes are going down, so they are receptive to a racist and misogynous demagogue. Since the non-rich are involved with fighting each other the rich aren't threatened, and both political parties are happy.
Today racism is used in our politics to distract us from the class war. There is a major class war going on but only the upper class is fighting it. The obvious political lineup should be economic winners versus economic losers. Today the winners are a rapidly shrinking minority, and if this was a functioning democracy the playing field would be leveled out. But since the Democratic Party has been bought by the rich it can't make an issue of it. So it has come to rely on identity politics, appealing to women and minorities. It is true that women and minorities are treated unfairly, but identity politics splits the non-rich classes and obscures the class war. As women and minorities claw back their fair share of a shrinking pie, white men's incomes are going down, so they are receptive to a racist and misogynous demagogue. Since the non-rich are involved with fighting each other the rich aren't threatened, and both political parties are happy.
19
And now it's being used to exploit refugees and illegal immigrants so they can displace American workers and be paid a dollar an hour under the table and housed in overcrowded tenements. Don't dare to get between a democrat and a dollar.
1
Paul Easton yoru comments are exactly what I, as a Black man, have been positing for years.
Racism, however it is evidenced—hidden or open, acknowledged or subconscious—is really a system of class division and the political and economic kings and queens don't want whites, people of color and immigrants to realize that they have the same issues and complaints and common enemy.
I would like to see the NYT's devote an investigation and series on that as a front page article and not buried in the Op-Ed section.
Racism, however it is evidenced—hidden or open, acknowledged or subconscious—is really a system of class division and the political and economic kings and queens don't want whites, people of color and immigrants to realize that they have the same issues and complaints and common enemy.
I would like to see the NYT's devote an investigation and series on that as a front page article and not buried in the Op-Ed section.
2
"Today racism is used in our politics to distract us from the class war. "
Please. That line was tried in the 1960's.
Most working class folks I know have the racial views they have due to their experiences. Not some line of reasoning foisted on them by party bosses.
As I said in the late 1960's most of the working people unite class warriors had packed up and left Detroit for Ann Arbor. The streets were much safer. And don't forget Bernie, he went from Chicago all the way to Vermont. Back to land and all that you know.
Please. That line was tried in the 1960's.
Most working class folks I know have the racial views they have due to their experiences. Not some line of reasoning foisted on them by party bosses.
As I said in the late 1960's most of the working people unite class warriors had packed up and left Detroit for Ann Arbor. The streets were much safer. And don't forget Bernie, he went from Chicago all the way to Vermont. Back to land and all that you know.
"She found that the companies that had discriminated were significantly more likely to have gone out of business — which may suggest a price tag for discrimination." Fascinating. Is it tacky to want ANOTHER follow-up study to see how many of those failed business owners now blame their failure on those blacks they were discriminating against?
6
Perhaps apocryphal, but Aleuts are reported ton have several hundred words jto describe snow. We need a more nuanced vocabulary to deal with relations between race. There is no doubt that Trump is a racist. He uses race to advance his goals by exploiting fears and perceptions of differences between people. Does Trump really believe whatj he is saying? Does it matter as long as he has a receptive audience?
But what provides him with a receptive audience? Is it racism, hateful, learned and wilfully if not eagerly embraced; or is it prejudice innate, unconscious and a natural element of the human condition?
The end result may appear to be the same but the cause and cure are totally different. Once people are aware of their prejudices they can deal with them.
I highly recommend Gordon Alport's The Nature of Prejudice as a primer to allow us to move on to what could be productive interaction once we get througbh this divisive campaign. As a nation we do not have the luxury of business as usual.
But what provides him with a receptive audience? Is it racism, hateful, learned and wilfully if not eagerly embraced; or is it prejudice innate, unconscious and a natural element of the human condition?
The end result may appear to be the same but the cause and cure are totally different. Once people are aware of their prejudices they can deal with them.
I highly recommend Gordon Alport's The Nature of Prejudice as a primer to allow us to move on to what could be productive interaction once we get througbh this divisive campaign. As a nation we do not have the luxury of business as usual.
1
Donald Trump is incapable of discussing race problems' complexities. In my opinion blacks and whites are equally prejudice. I am an eighty year old African American. I'm afraid the elephant in the room will go with us to the polls in November.
8
Yes, a way too high proportion of whites further racial inequality, wittingly or unwittingly.
But is this fact drowning out a necessary public dialogue about the most material causes of a far too high incidence of blacks suffering from destructive economic and social conditions? Is white racism the sole material cause?
If this racism were eliminated miraculously overnight, would massive black poverty and crime dwindle in a generation? Two generations? Three? Should we therefore have a national conversation to identify and analyze the most powerful root causes of these deplorable conditions and determine what actions appear likely to eliminate or greatly reduce their power?
But is this fact drowning out a necessary public dialogue about the most material causes of a far too high incidence of blacks suffering from destructive economic and social conditions? Is white racism the sole material cause?
If this racism were eliminated miraculously overnight, would massive black poverty and crime dwindle in a generation? Two generations? Three? Should we therefore have a national conversation to identify and analyze the most powerful root causes of these deplorable conditions and determine what actions appear likely to eliminate or greatly reduce their power?
10
Thank you, Mr. Kristof, for once again trying to draw attention to a problem in American society to which Americans of some stripes wish to remain oblivious but which is evident to anyone visiting America. The fact that one hears no calls for a 'Truth & Reconciliation Commission' to address America's racist past & present (as operated in South Africa & here in Canada) bears witness to American society's unwillingness to even admit to its' racist past or its' racist present.
It seems that 'we the people' still refers only to White, landowning Protestants and that 'government of the people, for the people, and by the people' remains (at best) an aspiration which few aspire to.
It seems that 'we the people' still refers only to White, landowning Protestants and that 'government of the people, for the people, and by the people' remains (at best) an aspiration which few aspire to.
3
racism is reality. police should be in direct proportion to population mix.
1
Where I live in a 3 county study over 90 % of births were Medicaid.
This area is primarily white. Very few blacks here.
So much for the argument that it is only a black problem.
This area is primarily white. Very few blacks here.
So much for the argument that it is only a black problem.
9
Mr. Kristof presents much important information here. What is unattractive about his rhetoric is his use of the term "whites" without any modifiers such as "some," "many" or even "most." Please dial it back a little.
11
Mr. Kristof, I read your articles with a clear eye toward agreement. Whites simply do NOT get it when it come to racial inequality. Far too many of us are blind to our own level of societal privilege. I fully agree with you that we need to deal with our own white ignorant brothers and sisters.
What bothers me about this series is that I fear you are preaching to the choir. I've found that New York Times readers tend to be more open-minded than those who have their opinions delivered to them on a platter by the newspaper equivalents of talking heads. Sure, you're reaching me and people like me but we already agree with you. We do not need to be sold on the lack of racial equality in America. Our eyes are open to it already.
How do you propose that we help you to spread your words to more potentially fertile eyes? I often provide links to your columns in my Facebook account but the comments I see in return are the ra-ra's of fellow liberal-types or the harangues of the Fox "News" crowd who shout idiotic taunts about "lame stream media" and "librul bias."
How can we help you?
What bothers me about this series is that I fear you are preaching to the choir. I've found that New York Times readers tend to be more open-minded than those who have their opinions delivered to them on a platter by the newspaper equivalents of talking heads. Sure, you're reaching me and people like me but we already agree with you. We do not need to be sold on the lack of racial equality in America. Our eyes are open to it already.
How do you propose that we help you to spread your words to more potentially fertile eyes? I often provide links to your columns in my Facebook account but the comments I see in return are the ra-ra's of fellow liberal-types or the harangues of the Fox "News" crowd who shout idiotic taunts about "lame stream media" and "librul bias."
How can we help you?
143
DO something! maybe find a teacher who has had to buy paper and pencils for poor kids in a poor school and write a check...any small step beats the blather that only clouds the glass.
I agree completely with the article but part of the problem is sentiments like "we readers of NYT are beyond this. It's those other people..."
Sorry, "ecco," I asked what we could do to spread Mr. Kristoff's words. Didn't you see that? What makes you think I don't do those things you mentioned? (Looks like you need to fix your NYT profile too, as I just did.)
Until we see all men as our brothers and all women as our sisters, the sun has not risen for for us.
The sickness of prejudice, predominantly in the base of the Republican party, still rots in the their souls. It is the racism in all that Mr. Kristof wrote about as well as toward President Obama that spawned the obstructionism from the Republican party for the last 7 and 1/2 years even at the deadly cost to all Americans, in lack of healthcare, blocking his jobs bill, suppressing our economy and legislation that could counter global warming. Even refusing a vote for the next member of our Supreme Court.
Vote for Hillary and give her a Democratic Congress. And save us from this madness.
The sickness of prejudice, predominantly in the base of the Republican party, still rots in the their souls. It is the racism in all that Mr. Kristof wrote about as well as toward President Obama that spawned the obstructionism from the Republican party for the last 7 and 1/2 years even at the deadly cost to all Americans, in lack of healthcare, blocking his jobs bill, suppressing our economy and legislation that could counter global warming. Even refusing a vote for the next member of our Supreme Court.
Vote for Hillary and give her a Democratic Congress. And save us from this madness.
3
Bravissimo! I wish we had more articles and opinion pieces like this one. I think that all of us, white and black, show some of this sort of unconscious racial bias in our lives. It really does seem to go both ways, sad to say.
That said, I still think that "treat others the way you want to be treated" is a good formula for living. If we all did our best in this respect, many racial tensions would lessen. (I believe)
That said, I still think that "treat others the way you want to be treated" is a good formula for living. If we all did our best in this respect, many racial tensions would lessen. (I believe)
4
President Obama has said that he hoped improved race relations would be a cornerstone of his legacy, and he has the distinction of bridging two groups from his own families. Admittedly, he is disappointed that the state of race relations has not reflected his personal dedication, but there are such deep layers, in our own subconsciouses, in our segregated towns and schools, in police/community relations, that no single individual can change it all.
However, Donald Trump does and will continue exacerbating the negative. He uses the worst caricatures to describe life for people of color (and incorrect, no less), and used peoples' worst instincts to further himself. This is on top of a sordid history of discriminating in housing.
Hillary Clinton has always been a champion of civil rights, and for her own record, she was endorsed early by Congressman John Lewis. She speaks honestly about birtherism as "a racist lie" and the strata of discrimination faced by people of color. She dignifies President Obama when his inherent worth is diminished.
Our next President can't erase our racist elements, but it can bring us that much closer to justice with Mrs. Clinton, or that much farther with Mr. Trump.
However, Donald Trump does and will continue exacerbating the negative. He uses the worst caricatures to describe life for people of color (and incorrect, no less), and used peoples' worst instincts to further himself. This is on top of a sordid history of discriminating in housing.
Hillary Clinton has always been a champion of civil rights, and for her own record, she was endorsed early by Congressman John Lewis. She speaks honestly about birtherism as "a racist lie" and the strata of discrimination faced by people of color. She dignifies President Obama when his inherent worth is diminished.
Our next President can't erase our racist elements, but it can bring us that much closer to justice with Mrs. Clinton, or that much farther with Mr. Trump.
2
The studies and stats show clearly that we are discriminating, and not in a good way. This series helps me to be aware and know where I need to do better on all levels, personal to political.
1
Do stronger pain meds for kids with appendicitis cause more breathing depression and post-op complications? Is less better than more?
Do the statistics show that blacks do commit more violent crime after release from jail than whites? Of course, statistics do NOT apply to an individual, only populations. The expert testimony should have been thrown out.
Do the statistics show that blacks do commit more violent crime after release from jail than whites? Of course, statistics do NOT apply to an individual, only populations. The expert testimony should have been thrown out.
1
Seems no one wants to talk........very telling.
Racism is called "the most challenging issue" and is living up to its name. I will read the comments within tweet to see what overt and covert racism there is among readers of The New York Times.
I worked as an RN Case Manager for many years. One of the things that I did for corporations and locally was to facilitate "diversity" sessions. The understanding was helpful in my career.
One of the factors of the courses was based on the meaning of primary dimensions and secondary dimensions. It seemed so simple, but hopefully left something to think about.
Primary dimensions are basically what we see when we look at someone - their gender (usually), color, somewhat of an age range - what you really see.
Secondary dimensions are things that are pertinent to the person, but what we can't see, like their education, family background, political ideology, religion, dislikes, likes, demographics; not seen, necessarily, but pertinent.
The point of learning of these dimensions, is to allow ourselves to examine how we deal with our view of primary dimensions. We may be apt to conclude our opinions based on solely what we see. When we actually learn more about the person, entering the secondary dimensions, our opinions may change.
It is said that sales people who are successful may quickly be able to step from the primary dimension into the secondary and form a bond, even be it temporary. And when we are able to communicate more in the secondary, and relate to others by learning secondary, we get along better.
If we can remember there may be important likenesses of each other, no matter what we see, we may be better off. This is a positive step, be it a tiny one.
One of the factors of the courses was based on the meaning of primary dimensions and secondary dimensions. It seemed so simple, but hopefully left something to think about.
Primary dimensions are basically what we see when we look at someone - their gender (usually), color, somewhat of an age range - what you really see.
Secondary dimensions are things that are pertinent to the person, but what we can't see, like their education, family background, political ideology, religion, dislikes, likes, demographics; not seen, necessarily, but pertinent.
The point of learning of these dimensions, is to allow ourselves to examine how we deal with our view of primary dimensions. We may be apt to conclude our opinions based on solely what we see. When we actually learn more about the person, entering the secondary dimensions, our opinions may change.
It is said that sales people who are successful may quickly be able to step from the primary dimension into the secondary and form a bond, even be it temporary. And when we are able to communicate more in the secondary, and relate to others by learning secondary, we get along better.
If we can remember there may be important likenesses of each other, no matter what we see, we may be better off. This is a positive step, be it a tiny one.
3
Institutional racism benefited privileged WASP's exclusively yet ethnic whites forever bear the burden ( Busing, Affirmative Action).
6
This is actually an important point. Would Mr. Kristof want his child denied a spot at their first choice for college in favor of a minority student? Would Mr. Kristof want his column bumped from the New York Times, because the Times made a push for diversity and deemed they needed more minority columnist? For many of us who have encountered the systemic racism of Affirmative Action, these are real situations we have been placed in, myself included. I have observed that Whites that have not been personally affected by these policies often advocate for them, because simply they do not understand fully and personally what they are pushing for.
4
The central point of your piece is the one about broken families. They clearly result in poor learning skills and motivation for students of any race. My Brothers Keeper is a nice idea. But only community leaderships effort to break the cycle can make a meaningful difference (including that of drug-driven gun violence like that besieging parts of Chicago)
6
It begs the question "How isolated are these white voters? How, in today's America, can you not know, like, or respect a person of color?" I work in a very diverse environment and I don't know how, as a white man, I'm going to be able to face my coworkers if the white electorate can manage to put a racist in the White House. How does this promote racial healing? I live in the south and I could never figure out why some people would choose to alienate their black neighbors and coworkers by waving a confederate flag in their faces. Southern hospitality is just a code "Y'all Qaeda" uses to confuse the fact that the hospitality is reserved for their kind, alone. Some people I work with hate Hillary and I have to understand, if not respect, that opinion. But the ones that like what they hear from Trump can stop putting on those fake smiles now, we can see into your hearts and those sunny dispositions can't hide the hate anymore.
1
So true. I'm 77 and am discouraged by the abject racism.
1
Mr. Kristof, you should clarify whom you are writing about:Whites who reside in housing projects,subject to the daily tyranny of drug gangs and other malevolent influences, or wealthy white liberals, who r unduly harsh on those who support Mr. Trump,accusing them of racism, yet who themselves live in lily white places such as Westchester and Sutton Place, send their offspring to Dalton and Buckley, and then to ivy league colleges. Do you not perceive a degree of intellectual dishonesty in punching down on us poor whites, struggling to survive despite obstacles like offshoring, overseas trade deals,as well as open borders forcing us to compete for jobs with "indocumentados,"while those who support the above r in the 1 percent? To rub it in,HRC, ur candidate, calls us " deplorable."Otherwise said, we r to her and her donors, white trash. What is ur position on this, Mr. Kristof, on the two facedness of those living in exclusive, majority white neighborhoods and accusing others less fortunate of racism?Tell us whether you approve of Hillary's denigration of entire segment of the populace, comprising millions, as she did 2 weeks ago.She was laughing when she said those words, right along with her donors.Poor parents:What would they have thought if they were alive today?Father and mother worked hard to put us through college,never made more than $20,000 a year between them, were never mean spirited towards others.Yet to Clinton, they would be among the deplorables.
12
"A widespread white delusion goes like this: We elected a black man president, so let’s stop using past discrimination as an excuse for black failures today. The age of discrimination is over." Ask that same person if he would be willing to change his skin color to black. He may lie about the answer, about the reason, but the truthful answer is "no" because he knows he enjoys advantages and privileges based on his white skin. Institutional and societal racism can be subtle, can be unconscious, but it is just as effective in depriving blacks of equal opportunity as a shackle.
Since Donald Trump and his supporters despise political correctness (aka, civility) I will venture a foot into his creepy swamp of a comfort zone. Let me then say, Donald Trump is an overweight, giant-headed, orange-shelled cockroach that has crawled out of a nasty foul smelling sewer. But, to his advantage, Republicans are willing to invite this smelly cockroach into their homes and hold him up a role model for their children.
Interestingly, blacks see and smell the cockroach for what he is while the bloodshot, red-eyed white supporters of the twittering, orange bug see and smell him as a refreshing change of scent from politicians. Ultimately, this bodes well for blacks; they have the wherewithal to deal with reality's oft ugliness, while these Trump whites cling by their nails to the Brooklyn Bridge they have been sold.
A can of Raid, anyone?
Since Donald Trump and his supporters despise political correctness (aka, civility) I will venture a foot into his creepy swamp of a comfort zone. Let me then say, Donald Trump is an overweight, giant-headed, orange-shelled cockroach that has crawled out of a nasty foul smelling sewer. But, to his advantage, Republicans are willing to invite this smelly cockroach into their homes and hold him up a role model for their children.
Interestingly, blacks see and smell the cockroach for what he is while the bloodshot, red-eyed white supporters of the twittering, orange bug see and smell him as a refreshing change of scent from politicians. Ultimately, this bodes well for blacks; they have the wherewithal to deal with reality's oft ugliness, while these Trump whites cling by their nails to the Brooklyn Bridge they have been sold.
A can of Raid, anyone?
"Sure, self-destructive behaviors are a strand of poverty (of every complexion), " Well, not to the extent of how self-destructive behavior is ravaging black communities; in these it is truly exceptionable. Black crime is so pervasive in these communities that it affects the entire social fabric. The result is a near entire group carrying a criminal identity by the time adulthood is reached.
Yes - there is racism in the country, but it is an undercurrent not a driven policy adopted by whites - for the most part. Every day individual whites and individual blacks throughout the US interdict successfully and unbiased. But seen in the mass whites do harbor a fear of blacks because of black crime. Is that racist? Kristof could safely walk my Charleston neighborhood on a warm summer evening at 2A.M. Let's see how brave Mr. Kristof is taking a similar stroll through the black communities of North Charleston.
Yes - there is racism in the country, but it is an undercurrent not a driven policy adopted by whites - for the most part. Every day individual whites and individual blacks throughout the US interdict successfully and unbiased. But seen in the mass whites do harbor a fear of blacks because of black crime. Is that racist? Kristof could safely walk my Charleston neighborhood on a warm summer evening at 2A.M. Let's see how brave Mr. Kristof is taking a similar stroll through the black communities of North Charleston.
14
I do wonder how safely a black man could walk through your neighborhood at 2 a.m. though. He would certainly get at the least stopped by police and possibly shot.
America is all about unresolved compromises. As a reader of early American history I've discovered that all the problems in today's news has origins in the history of the country. We compromised and moved on but the core issues were never resolved - not even the Civil War (a.k.a., War of Northern Aggression).
Slavery is our national wound and it has never healed. We also have a strong anarchist element that persists to this day. We like the "idea" of an egalitarian society only as long as our personal group is a bit higher than other groups on the societal ladder. Simply put we are an imperfect society filled with flaws. We are the worst Democratic-Republic, except for the others.
All we can do as individuals and as a nation is to constantly try to live up to our ideals. Unfortunately, we are always ready to pounce on some group just to maintain our superiority and ego.
As a melanin-deficient boomer I realize that I simply "don't get it" but I am trying to have empathy and change the society. I'm not alone but I am pushing against a strong tide.
Slavery is our national wound and it has never healed. We also have a strong anarchist element that persists to this day. We like the "idea" of an egalitarian society only as long as our personal group is a bit higher than other groups on the societal ladder. Simply put we are an imperfect society filled with flaws. We are the worst Democratic-Republic, except for the others.
All we can do as individuals and as a nation is to constantly try to live up to our ideals. Unfortunately, we are always ready to pounce on some group just to maintain our superiority and ego.
As a melanin-deficient boomer I realize that I simply "don't get it" but I am trying to have empathy and change the society. I'm not alone but I am pushing against a strong tide.
I object to all caucasians being lumped in the generic category of White. It is as insulting as seeing all people of East Asian ancestry as the same or all Semitic peoples as the same or all First Peoples of North America as the same. Likewise, not all people of African descent are the same by culture, race, ethicity or faith tradition.
There is a man - an immigrant from Africa- that I just had a conversation on this subject with Friday over lunch. He is Christian, politically conservative, well educated & totally puzzled by the current state of American politics and not just the Trump Phenomenon. He is as puzzled by the political attitudes of many minority groups & their loyalty to the Democrats as to the insanity of the Trump campaign. He would appear to a casual viewer as just another Black man in America, but his reality, experience, outlook & values are quite different.
I live in the south & get your point about race in America. We moved south just after the civil rights era and I saw the reaction first hand. My town is in the Delta region of Arkansas just outside Memphis, Tennessee and the history of race and reform is well known and close to the surface here. Despite that, not all "white people" are as clueless as you describe or as careless about the sorry state of our nation's attitudes about inequality- both racial and economic.
Some of us get it, work at it and are conscientious about it. Please do not lump us in with everyone who thinks we are all alike.
There is a man - an immigrant from Africa- that I just had a conversation on this subject with Friday over lunch. He is Christian, politically conservative, well educated & totally puzzled by the current state of American politics and not just the Trump Phenomenon. He is as puzzled by the political attitudes of many minority groups & their loyalty to the Democrats as to the insanity of the Trump campaign. He would appear to a casual viewer as just another Black man in America, but his reality, experience, outlook & values are quite different.
I live in the south & get your point about race in America. We moved south just after the civil rights era and I saw the reaction first hand. My town is in the Delta region of Arkansas just outside Memphis, Tennessee and the history of race and reform is well known and close to the surface here. Despite that, not all "white people" are as clueless as you describe or as careless about the sorry state of our nation's attitudes about inequality- both racial and economic.
Some of us get it, work at it and are conscientious about it. Please do not lump us in with everyone who thinks we are all alike.
12
David Gregory, how true about whiteness not necessarily being a synonym for attitudinal cluelessness. As another white person living in a southern burg, I see plenty of bias on both sides of the racial fence. Might be good for everyone to reconsider W.E.B. DuBois's complaint of 100 years ago that race is not a meaningful category biologically, and should be flushed from social/political/psychological contexts too. Easier said than done, though, especially in places like ours where the residue of slavery, segregation and well-meaning welfarism remains profound.
8
DuBois made that statement before DNA screening was discovered! He intuitively reduced race in America to what it is: a sociopolitical construct. We had since been gifted with the ability to know our exact racial makeup. A lot of folks don't really want to know the truth. They might discover that their vaunted racial heritage is something short of that handed down in family mythologies! Race categories serve non racial ends: in S.Africa whites were a minority, so they created a ranking system to classify people by racial characteristics. Africans were at the bottom. Bad jobs, limited education, health care, harsh policing, repression, this was their lot. Above them was the coloreds: lighter skinned Africans. They got a comparatively better basket of stuff. At the too were the whites, British and Dutch! They had all of that societies' goodies.
Yet for all that has transpired in the years since the end of apartheid, my guess is that class keeps many South Africans right where they were during apartheid. More rights, a few more options, but largely the same.
Yet for all that has transpired in the years since the end of apartheid, my guess is that class keeps many South Africans right where they were during apartheid. More rights, a few more options, but largely the same.
every time i am almost convinced to vote for hillary i read an inane article like this which if you cut to the chase is "people of color are good, white people are bad, all white people tale your checkbook out now".
i connect this fatuous argument with hillary because she is a big proponent of the fiction that the economic and social disparities suffered by people of color are because the white patriarchal order is holding them down. i am not holding anybody down are you mr kristof? if neither one of us is, then who is? please stand up.
disparities exist and will continue to do so until we get off the systemic racism bandwagon and work on the root causes, family focus, education and economic development. you want my vote hillary? show some leadership and stop parroting the NYT line.
i connect this fatuous argument with hillary because she is a big proponent of the fiction that the economic and social disparities suffered by people of color are because the white patriarchal order is holding them down. i am not holding anybody down are you mr kristof? if neither one of us is, then who is? please stand up.
disparities exist and will continue to do so until we get off the systemic racism bandwagon and work on the root causes, family focus, education and economic development. you want my vote hillary? show some leadership and stop parroting the NYT line.
9
"Part 7"?
When is "Blacks just don't get it, part 1" coming?
Racial prejudice is not color blind.
You can do better than this, Nicholas.
Usually you do. Looking forward to more of that usual.
The points in this column ring true, by the way. But do not ring like the whole truth.
When is "Blacks just don't get it, part 1" coming?
Racial prejudice is not color blind.
You can do better than this, Nicholas.
Usually you do. Looking forward to more of that usual.
The points in this column ring true, by the way. But do not ring like the whole truth.
7
I do agree. I usually find Mr. Kristof to be a well thought out individual, unfortunately on this particular topic he is not. You will never find a column entitled "Blacks Just Don't Get it, Part 1". Why? I think in his world view it is unilateral, there is nothing wrong with African American Culture and all the reasons a higher percentage of African Americans are poor is caused ultimately by Whites. From what I can process, every White, newborn to old, bears guilt and has systemically oppressed African Americans by virtue of their skin color in Mr. Kristof's view.
I challenge Mr. Kristof to apply same standards to African Americans and write a column about it.
I challenge Mr. Kristof to apply same standards to African Americans and write a column about it.
2
A very good article, with some terrific examples that make you realize that white attitudes still need to improve.
3
Not everyone who is called a racist is one.
Everyone who is a racist insists they're not.
Everyone who is a racist insists they're not.
4
Keep on hammering, Nick!
1
The most disturbing thing to me about Trump's candidacy is that it is REVERSING all the progress made over the last 100 years. At least many whites were willing to look at their overt and subconscious prejudices. At least it was morally correct to believe in equality under the law even if not practiced. Now the entire mindset of appropriate vs inappropriate behavior has changed because of Trump's devastating "leadership". It is now believed to be fine, even righteous to openly discriminate, condemn, humiliate and disparage people because of color and creed. The populists have grabbed civility and turned it inside out.
Let's crush this movement with our willingness to hold a mirror to our own behavior, and commit to changing the story and reality for people of all color and religion to be treated with respect and dignity in our great country.
Let's crush this movement with our willingness to hold a mirror to our own behavior, and commit to changing the story and reality for people of all color and religion to be treated with respect and dignity in our great country.
1
It's essential to keep hammering away on these critical points. We are ALL responsible. Keep up the good work, Nick!
2
Plain and eloquent words. Yes, this election is about racism; we ought to say so openly. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
2
In our world of immediacy, the broader view becomes more difficult for many. If you stop for a moment to consider the ramifications or distant consequence of a racially charged situation, you will already miss the next topic on the media crawl permanently affixed to the bottom of the screen. When I speak to others around me I find the reactionary response as the norm today. When asked about Trump they lay vitriol upon Clinton. When asked about a shooting the attack on the police or victim begins immediately. What is not investigated more deeply are the contributing factors or the commonalities between each event. When it is presented, it is opinion based upon 2 disparate sides, on a split screen, yelling at one another. I applaud your consistent long range view and hope you continue to promote the consideration of deeper causes such that we can change the end effects. Thank you Nick. KEEP THOUGHT ALIVE.
1
Of course this election is in significant part race-driven. Trump is a rascist and has been one, as you note, for much of his adult life-period. The punctuation
refers back to his clumsy, disgusting repudiation of his long-standing lie
that Presiden Obama was not born in this country, did not attend Harvard and spontaneously and magically appeared on the national scene.
How many white voters reading your column and those of your colleagues are rascists? Even those who buy into racial stereotypes, how many will vote
Trump?
My point is you're preaching to the choir. Please-keep on preaching, but, Mr. Kristof, those who are rascists, those,who harbor hate, anger, happily believe
the lies, are not paying attention. We've lost them. Let's hope we haven't,lost
our country.
refers back to his clumsy, disgusting repudiation of his long-standing lie
that Presiden Obama was not born in this country, did not attend Harvard and spontaneously and magically appeared on the national scene.
How many white voters reading your column and those of your colleagues are rascists? Even those who buy into racial stereotypes, how many will vote
Trump?
My point is you're preaching to the choir. Please-keep on preaching, but, Mr. Kristof, those who are rascists, those,who harbor hate, anger, happily believe
the lies, are not paying attention. We've lost them. Let's hope we haven't,lost
our country.
5
"The Supreme Court is now taking up a case called Buck v. Davis...What can that be called but racism?" How about calling it "BARBARISM!"
I agree that it can be barbaric to see someone as a race member rather than a member of humanity. But what does that make Mr. Kristof, whose "whites don't get it" series reinforces sociological/psychological constructs and stereotypes, however apt in some cases? Surely Mr. Kristof and you are not barbarians, right? So you might want to rethink how to conceptualize this issue.
another basket...it is the attribution habits, observed in some, attributed to all, that identifies a racist...congratulations.
2
I love your articles, but maybe you don't get it either. Ever since--how many hundreds of years ago?--the notion that whites were automatically smarter and better in every way, has been burned into the psyche of everyone. It is not a secret; I heard someone saying as much on the news just a few days ago. But it is there. Someone put it there in our subconscious when we were young.
I am white and I live in Montana. My father who is dead now, saints be praised, was racist and had never met a black person. His brother who had been in WWII, just looked at him in disgust and said nothing. It hurt me to hear and see his sense of worthiness and "betterness" over all and sundry.
It must have happened in school. It is buried deep. It was administered in a planned attempt to keep that status quo. I have long been ashamed of all my people who continue to express centuries-old propaganda. In the many out-of-the-way places where people live, children are not exposed to another way of thinking. TV silently or not pushes this agenda.
I wonder if we as a group have any hope of change. We may be able to affect change by fighting police shootings and as a disabled person, I spend a lot of time online, signing petitions and doing what i can to keep the pressure on those who are in charge. It probably isn't enough, but I hope it helps.
Thanks,
Karen
I am white and I live in Montana. My father who is dead now, saints be praised, was racist and had never met a black person. His brother who had been in WWII, just looked at him in disgust and said nothing. It hurt me to hear and see his sense of worthiness and "betterness" over all and sundry.
It must have happened in school. It is buried deep. It was administered in a planned attempt to keep that status quo. I have long been ashamed of all my people who continue to express centuries-old propaganda. In the many out-of-the-way places where people live, children are not exposed to another way of thinking. TV silently or not pushes this agenda.
I wonder if we as a group have any hope of change. We may be able to affect change by fighting police shootings and as a disabled person, I spend a lot of time online, signing petitions and doing what i can to keep the pressure on those who are in charge. It probably isn't enough, but I hope it helps.
Thanks,
Karen
6
Karen, it's not just "someone" who put these notions out there -- and they include columnists like Mr. Kristof. Take a look at another columnist of a by-gone era, H.L. Mencken, who predicted a virtually unending sequence of racial difference, and did what he could to perpetuate it. Mr. Kristof may mean a lot better than Mr. Mencken, but the effect seems to be about the same. This obsession with racialism is the problem, just as the obsession with disability rather than noting the larger realm of mutual ability is the problem in the other context with which you are well acquainted. Quit dividing us, Mr. Kristof. You think you're being helpful, but you're not.
1
Another great discussion of race in America. The good news is that you have to acknowledge a problem before you can begin to solve it. The bad news is that the problem is so ingrained and, for many white people, completely hidden or subconscious. I supppse we have Trump to thank for reminding the part of America that cares about tolerance and fairness, that there are sadly significant numbers of Americans who don't.
2
If we’re so concerned with “personal responsibility,” shouldn’t we show some?"
If any one can show me an incident where I have acted in a racist manner, I will take total responsibility for that. I do not try to blame anything but my own thoughts for my own actions. Would that those apologists for irresponsible behavior insisted on the same.
"Duane Buck who was sentenced to death after “expert” testimony that he was more likely to commit violent crimes in the future because he was black" The statistics all show that as a group, blacks are more often charged, arrested, and convicted of violent crimes than whites. While there may well be social reasons for this violence, the fact remains that it is statistically valid to say that a black man with a history of violent crimes is more likely to commit future violent crimes than a white man with the same history.
If any one can show me an incident where I have acted in a racist manner, I will take total responsibility for that. I do not try to blame anything but my own thoughts for my own actions. Would that those apologists for irresponsible behavior insisted on the same.
"Duane Buck who was sentenced to death after “expert” testimony that he was more likely to commit violent crimes in the future because he was black" The statistics all show that as a group, blacks are more often charged, arrested, and convicted of violent crimes than whites. While there may well be social reasons for this violence, the fact remains that it is statistically valid to say that a black man with a history of violent crimes is more likely to commit future violent crimes than a white man with the same history.
6
It is also statistically vaid to say that a black man is more likely to be unjustly arrested and charged than a white man. Which skews the other set of statistics.
When whites live, go to school and work in segregated neighborhoods they do not know black people as neighbors, classmates, coworkers and friends. That makes a huge difference, because integration facilitates people getting to know each other as people making racism more difficult. It is difficult to hate your neighbor who loaned you his lawnmower.
3
I agree with you. School busing programs no longer exist for many reasons but when I was growing up in the 1980s-1990s, the school district I was in bused kids across different neighborhoods which meant you were in classes and on the playground with kids from families with different ethnic and economic backgrounds starting in kindergarten. I credit that busing program with my and my friends' comfortableness with mixing with different groups as an adult. When your best friend in 2nd grade was a blond, blue-eyed girl from an upper-class neighborhood and your 6th grade best friend was a Black girl from the projects and you are Asian-American, you learn early on that people aren't all that different.
1
A hundred years ago, or even fifty, racism was open and visible everywhere. It was written into law, and could be seen on the streets daily. That sort of racism -- the *important* racism! -- is long gone.
Nevertheless, it is desperately important to a certain type of liberal to continue blaming all black problems on white racism. Since open, visible racism is gone, it is necessary to hypothesize invisible "institutional" racism, racism without racists. You may not be able to see it, but carefully formulated academic studies have teased out evidence for its existence, so we know it must be there. After all, academic studies are never wrong!
Unfortunately it has become more and more clear in recent years that a very high percentage of academic studies, especially in soft fields like sociology, cannot be reproduced, and are almost certainly wrong. Google "replication crisis" if you want to know the details.
This is true even of studies that have no political implications. How much worse for studies involving a hot-button political issue like racism! Sociologists as a group are notoriously left-leaning, and I have absolutely no confidence in the ability of academic sociologists to put aside their politics.
If studies like the pedestrian study are the best evidence Kristof can come up with for the continuing importance of racism, I'm not impressed. I *will* be impressed if he ever starts talking honestly about black crime statistics, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
Nevertheless, it is desperately important to a certain type of liberal to continue blaming all black problems on white racism. Since open, visible racism is gone, it is necessary to hypothesize invisible "institutional" racism, racism without racists. You may not be able to see it, but carefully formulated academic studies have teased out evidence for its existence, so we know it must be there. After all, academic studies are never wrong!
Unfortunately it has become more and more clear in recent years that a very high percentage of academic studies, especially in soft fields like sociology, cannot be reproduced, and are almost certainly wrong. Google "replication crisis" if you want to know the details.
This is true even of studies that have no political implications. How much worse for studies involving a hot-button political issue like racism! Sociologists as a group are notoriously left-leaning, and I have absolutely no confidence in the ability of academic sociologists to put aside their politics.
If studies like the pedestrian study are the best evidence Kristof can come up with for the continuing importance of racism, I'm not impressed. I *will* be impressed if he ever starts talking honestly about black crime statistics, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
10
I am published (medicine) and completely agree. The people that latch onto these soft science studies, may I note that the pedestrian study had 6 participants, are grasping for straws. Actual data, for instance the crime statistics you allude to, tell a more complex story and one that doesn't completely flatter African Americans; it reveals it is more about socioeconomic status than race. But this is unpalatable to individuals that attempt to walk in the faux-foot steps of the Civil Rights movement, they must make a racial strife narrative to their world view point.
4
Years ago Daniel Moynihan coined the phrase "defining deviancy down". Well now Kristof and others are "defining racism down". It is now a term so diverse, pervasive, and malleable that clearly it can never be resolved or removed. How very convenient to most Democrats.
Your comments on academic research are spot on. Very little is reliable unless the conclusion is tautological. Too often the research serves only as column filler for pundits like Kristof.
Your comments on academic research are spot on. Very little is reliable unless the conclusion is tautological. Too often the research serves only as column filler for pundits like Kristof.
3
My question is, are there credible data that show the percentage of white voters who questioned Obama's birth place in 2008, 2015 (when Trump came on the national scene) and now. I would like to know whether there are correlations with or exacerbations of the growth of racial animus aligned with Donald Trump's entry into politics.
We must know that the unprecedented occupancy of The White House with a highly educated black family has rocked many white Americans, thrilled and then for some, disappointed many Black Americans.
We must also know that Donald Trump and a swath of the GOP has fueled bigotry and fanned the flames of hatred in this country.
We must know that the unprecedented occupancy of The White House with a highly educated black family has rocked many white Americans, thrilled and then for some, disappointed many Black Americans.
We must also know that Donald Trump and a swath of the GOP has fueled bigotry and fanned the flames of hatred in this country.
2
About street crossing:
I react differentially because I think Americans are more likely to complain while immigrants especially from Asia-Africa may just shrug off.
I usually try not to but at times it is a hurried natural reaction. It is a cultural bias isn't it?
I react differentially because I think Americans are more likely to complain while immigrants especially from Asia-Africa may just shrug off.
I usually try not to but at times it is a hurried natural reaction. It is a cultural bias isn't it?
1
Unbridled capitalism fosters fierce competition, and competition means keeping rivals down any way you can. Of course, those of us who are winners, or who feel like winners, in a competitive market can afford to be generous. The losers, not so much.
3
Interestingly, the same people who have the greatest problem with the "unfairness" of capitalism are the ones supporting Hillary Clinton, who is the poster child for unbridled competition. Just look at how she sought to destroy everyone, especially Bill's women, who threatened her path to power.
2
People of all colors need to acknowledge the truths in this article. Racism lives because we allow it to. Long overdo time for a change of heart.
You said it, in The usa in The US is more visible but racism is also Classism, in all America, be North or South or .Central!
I might offer that the single greatest perpetrator of bias is our own federal government. It should be illegal for the census bureau to ask anything about race, or country of origin or self identifying as anything. HHS already has the medical data. The rest of the questions are just setting us up for gerrymandering. Come on big data. Drop the color, I dare you.
Stop counting already, please. Assuming that blacks or hispanics actually vote in blocs is stereotyping, please stop it.
If we want any chance of reaching nuetral or center, take race off the table. Gender is next. We need to dismantle the mechanisms that perpetuate these preferencial differences where we see them, including legislation and selective enforcement.
Stop doing what got us here in the first place. I didnt see an opportunity for the first black president, I saw a brilliant candidate for the highest office in our country. What did you see?
Please stop voting for your genitalia or melanin. As an english immigrant with Italian heritage, it will be centuries before my number is called. I hope my representatives until then will also be color blind and overlook an appendage that is out of favor.
This is something the millenials would have gotten had their parents and their government not chosen to institutionalize and immortalize the very thing we are all disgusted by.
Stop counting already, please. Assuming that blacks or hispanics actually vote in blocs is stereotyping, please stop it.
If we want any chance of reaching nuetral or center, take race off the table. Gender is next. We need to dismantle the mechanisms that perpetuate these preferencial differences where we see them, including legislation and selective enforcement.
Stop doing what got us here in the first place. I didnt see an opportunity for the first black president, I saw a brilliant candidate for the highest office in our country. What did you see?
Please stop voting for your genitalia or melanin. As an english immigrant with Italian heritage, it will be centuries before my number is called. I hope my representatives until then will also be color blind and overlook an appendage that is out of favor.
This is something the millenials would have gotten had their parents and their government not chosen to institutionalize and immortalize the very thing we are all disgusted by.
3
It seems to me that white people such as myself are often wary of Afro-Americans for two reasons. One is socialization, being consciously or unconsciously taught in childhood that African-Americans are problematic (I grew up in the rural South in the 60s and that is definitely one element). But the other reason may be experience, where personally dealing with African-Americans is a frustrating or alienating experience. (I lived in an African-American neighborhood for three years, and I was mugged, assaulted, and burglarized about once every three months by my neighbors). I am not willing to concede that this second reason is an illigiitimate basis for a certain wariness. That said, America does have a racist history, and among other things, the denial of a decent education to poor children is a national shame (and those children are predominantly but not exclusively African-American).
10
Hopefully the racial hysteria in the age we live in will someday be well documented as the myth it is in the same way "satanic panic" was in the 80's. The McMartin Preschool injustice is one of many examples. The "anti-racism" panic also has innocent victims. Many of the studies that Kristof notes (especially the jaywalking) are not at all findings from serious and professionally done studies. Many of these studies are put on by advocacy groups who don't follow any of the rules on conducting sound and unbiased research.
It was amusing to hear some blacks proclaim they can't be racist because blacks "don't have institutional and systemic power" while Obama and Eric Holder were in office. I have no doubt that if 95% of all people holding institutional positions of power were black these people would still be chanting this same mantra. Black leftists want the right to judge but not be judged. They demand non-blacks ostracize for eternity anti-black racists despite the fact that open distain and contempt towards Asians, Jews, women and gays is very normal in the black community and doesn't generate any shame or disgust. It is obvious to me that black hatred towards other marginalized groups isn't seen as much of a sin in black culture (I'm surprised how little attention this fact gets) but we are all supposed to treat anti-black attitudes like a cancer. It blacks were a small and powerless group such as Native Americans this may be harmless, but they aren't and it isn't.
It was amusing to hear some blacks proclaim they can't be racist because blacks "don't have institutional and systemic power" while Obama and Eric Holder were in office. I have no doubt that if 95% of all people holding institutional positions of power were black these people would still be chanting this same mantra. Black leftists want the right to judge but not be judged. They demand non-blacks ostracize for eternity anti-black racists despite the fact that open distain and contempt towards Asians, Jews, women and gays is very normal in the black community and doesn't generate any shame or disgust. It is obvious to me that black hatred towards other marginalized groups isn't seen as much of a sin in black culture (I'm surprised how little attention this fact gets) but we are all supposed to treat anti-black attitudes like a cancer. It blacks were a small and powerless group such as Native Americans this may be harmless, but they aren't and it isn't.
10
It is interesting you bring up the McMartin preschool incident. I was just thinking about that yesterday and looked it up online. Those people were never compensated and despite that huge injustice taking place in the 1980's it is largely forgotten. I have no doubt this is due to the victims not belonging to a "oppressed" group. There is something deeply disturbing that compassion and advocacy is withheld to some very deserving people (like the McMartins) while it is lavished on people whose own criminal and violence behavior led to their problems (Rodney King, Mike Brown) simply due to race. If this isn't racist and inhumane then nothing is.
7
The "racial hysteria" is mostly coming from you. You should be embarrassed to air such racist baloney, but clearly you have a very limited grasp of what racism is. One black president (opposed at every turn by a GOP house and senate, btw) is hardly a watershed in turning back years of systemic discrimination. I'd suggest you go back and read Kristof's very cogently outlined account of the kinds of discrimination that American blacks contend with, but clearly you don't want to know.
Mr. Kristof speaks of "we whites" as a monolithic block that is unable to look in the mirror or acknowledge our own part in perpetuating racial inequality. Yes, that's fine as a generalization, but it totally loses sight of the many millions of whites who understand that the system is rigged and want to change it. Like many whites, I am disgusted by police brutality. I am disgusted by the fact that people with "black sounding" names don't get callbacks to job offers. I am disgusted by the casual racism implied by not yielding to black pedestrians.
Am I blameless myself? Of course not. Have I personally benefitted from my own "whiteness"? Of course I have. But, just like all of us, I can't escape from the mirror. I can't hide from the fact--let alone change the fact--that I was born white. I am what I am.
Yes, it's true that because of my skin color I will never "get it" in the most personal, visceral sense of the word. I will probably never be shot at a traffic stop or denied a job because of my skin tone. But I will do my utmost to vote, to elect leaders who vow to put a stop to this. I will try to make friends across the color barrier. I will donate money and time to organizations that truly aim to promote equality. I will try to stop for black pedestrians on the street. Short of changing my own skin color, were such a thing possible, what more do you want us of a similar mind to do?
Self-flagellation is easy and feels righteous, but what more would you have us *do*?
Am I blameless myself? Of course not. Have I personally benefitted from my own "whiteness"? Of course I have. But, just like all of us, I can't escape from the mirror. I can't hide from the fact--let alone change the fact--that I was born white. I am what I am.
Yes, it's true that because of my skin color I will never "get it" in the most personal, visceral sense of the word. I will probably never be shot at a traffic stop or denied a job because of my skin tone. But I will do my utmost to vote, to elect leaders who vow to put a stop to this. I will try to make friends across the color barrier. I will donate money and time to organizations that truly aim to promote equality. I will try to stop for black pedestrians on the street. Short of changing my own skin color, were such a thing possible, what more do you want us of a similar mind to do?
Self-flagellation is easy and feels righteous, but what more would you have us *do*?
5
I suspect he wants those less self-aware than you claim to be to wake up to the reality of racism, rather than perpetuate some notion that it's an exaggerated grievance, that whites suffer discrimination, that blacks are responsible for their problems. I'm surprised that a conscious, well-evolved white person like you feels attacked by his words. If you are doing your part, than you should know better than anyone how many more of "us whites" are not living up to our purported values.
I was never a racist and I never wanted to be a racist, until I moved to Baltimore. In the past 10 years that I have lived here, almost every time I was offended, threatened or enraged by a stranger in a public place, it was because of a black person. I know most black people are good law abiding citizens, I do have several fairly close black friends, and I have no doubt that blacks are still discriminated in many ways in our society even today. But am I wrong to feel nervous when I see a rough looking black person on the street? Am I wrong to think "what's wrong with these people" when I read that over 70% of black kids are raised in a single parent family? Am I wrong to lose a little respect ever time I see young black kids roaming the street during school hours despite free transportation, free lunch and free tuition? I know it is a horrible thing to say, but I honestly feel I'm slowly turning into a racist, by the black people I have encountered over the years in my city.
42
I feel I'm turning into a racist by the enormous disparity of consequences over any accusation (no matter how petty) of anti-black racism vs. the open hatred and contempt blacks get away with towards others. I constantly see blacks, some of them prominent figures, spew hatred and bigotry on social media that would destroy anyone elses reputation and career if it was directed towards blacks. But there is no media attention, condemnation, or consequences. I am surprised at how oblivious people are to this.
13
If anything, I tend to view blacks through rose-colored glasses because my close friends are all faithful, family-oriented, incredibly decent people. What is slowly turning me on people like Mr. Kristof is the excuse-making.
I'm not extremely religious but most people live by some version of the 10 Commandments. They don't kill. They don't steal. They try to do right by their family and spouses. When a group of people -- of any race -- that fails to act with any standards is excused because of "society", "history", etc., it flies in the face of basic principles like right and wrong and personal responsibility.
Certain things are wrong. Murder is wrong. Stealing is wrong. We shouldn't excuse them, nor should we encourage people to not take personal responsibility for their actions.
I'm not extremely religious but most people live by some version of the 10 Commandments. They don't kill. They don't steal. They try to do right by their family and spouses. When a group of people -- of any race -- that fails to act with any standards is excused because of "society", "history", etc., it flies in the face of basic principles like right and wrong and personal responsibility.
Certain things are wrong. Murder is wrong. Stealing is wrong. We shouldn't excuse them, nor should we encourage people to not take personal responsibility for their actions.
9
Spend some time in desperately poor white communities in Appalachia or Arkansas or even Colorado and get back to us on your lack of respect. Sounds like you need to shelter yourself from those realities, or work on your compassion. It's understandable to feel threatened by someone who is aggressive or hostile or suspicious in behavior. I suggest you leave Baltimore if you can't refrain from racial generalizations while living near a direly disadvantaged population.
Booker T Washington spoke about the need of black opportunists to keep the race industry going for profit and sympathy over 100 years ago and it's every bit as true today. There are so many black and non-black activists and journalists who make 6 and sometimes even 7 figure incomes dredging up the wrongs done to blacks. Almost without exception the incidents turn out to be false narratives or else they are no different than incidents that happen with different racial dynamics 3 times a day. Despite that last fact, it is proclaimed that the cancer of anti-black racism is alive and well and eating up blacks at a rate that vastly outpaces other bigotry.
The author of this piece, like so many others of his mentality, have decided that blacks will be permanently stifled until no one ever has a negative attitude about them ever. When they are on the receiving end of abuse-whether physical or verbal-they are seen as victims, which is fine but unfortunately when they are on the giving end, they are still seen as victims and many black activists use this for power and open extortion. I do not see how race relations will ever be much better when there is so much denial of and indifference in the black community as to how black behavior sometimes infringes on the rights and respect of others.
The author of this piece, like so many others of his mentality, have decided that blacks will be permanently stifled until no one ever has a negative attitude about them ever. When they are on the receiving end of abuse-whether physical or verbal-they are seen as victims, which is fine but unfortunately when they are on the giving end, they are still seen as victims and many black activists use this for power and open extortion. I do not see how race relations will ever be much better when there is so much denial of and indifference in the black community as to how black behavior sometimes infringes on the rights and respect of others.
19
The race industry most definitely keeps racism alive. Without it, they would have no livelihoods. An example is the "Diversity Office" at colleges. The first thing they do is teach freshman what an aggression is and how to spot them. No surprise, they see them everywhere.
Isn't it worthwhile asking whether all this money and effort would be better spent teaching people to be less sensitive and more resilient?
Isn't it worthwhile asking whether all this money and effort would be better spent teaching people to be less sensitive and more resilient?
4
Please be specific: name the people who are raking the $$$?
"And we whites could spend less time pointing fingers and more time looking in the mirror."
We could and should, but I'm not sure how much difference it would make, and I'm not sure if it is the most productive way to spend your morning. The subtle racial subtext we experience as educated whites could well be placed on the back burner until we deal with the frothing at the mouth racism that is still all too common in our society. This requires more than self reflection, rather what is needed, imo, is a much stronger financial commitment to early education, and yes nutrition, in all of our communities, black, white, whatever.
We could and should, but I'm not sure how much difference it would make, and I'm not sure if it is the most productive way to spend your morning. The subtle racial subtext we experience as educated whites could well be placed on the back burner until we deal with the frothing at the mouth racism that is still all too common in our society. This requires more than self reflection, rather what is needed, imo, is a much stronger financial commitment to early education, and yes nutrition, in all of our communities, black, white, whatever.
2
Again, Mr. Kristof you are the one who doesn't get it. Employers prefer whites because of fear of hiring someone who will not take criticism constructively and will be difficult to terminate for fear of a lawsuit. Most disruptive students are blacks who do not want to follow instructions. When they fail because they do not comply with the work required, they accuse teachers of racism and demand a high grade for doing absolutely nothing. Teachers then just inflate grades and pass them just to avoid problems. Why don't you try it, Mr. Kristof instead of believing stories and statistics that are biased? Even blacks are afraid of other blacks. Blacks are indeed more violent and use yelling and intimidating behavior to get their own way. Moreover, Mr. Kristof, blacks discriminate against whites as well as other ethnic groups. Demanding rights without merit is not about a desire for harmony, it is about power. Once a group is displaced, power is seized. This reality is very prevalent in Hispanic countries where the mostly mixed-race population harass the white minorities. For example: it is the white drivers that are stopped more often and fined. Your idealism is touching, but it is not reality. Pretty soon your wish will come true as reverse discrimination takes hold of this country undermining the progress of the Western culture all want to enjoy but will not be able to sustain, as is evident in post-colonial societies and cities in this country suffering decay.
39
I wonder to what extent Nicholas Kristof has actually interacted with black people. I'm white, and spent almost sixteen years teaching at a secondary school in South Los Angeles with a majority black faculty, staff, and student body.
While some of the most dedicated teachers, administrators, and students were black, I also encountered behavior that was so adversarial it was seemingly pathological. I also encountered unfathomable apathy, disinterest, and what can only be described as learned helplessness. My lifelong liberalism took a pretty sound beating from the way I was treated, not only by my last principal, but by many of my students.
Am I a racist for realizing this? I don't think so. I am, like all of us, a product of my first-hand experience. And that experience makes me realize that racism, or the perception of racism, is a lot more complex than Mr. Kristof presents.
While some of the most dedicated teachers, administrators, and students were black, I also encountered behavior that was so adversarial it was seemingly pathological. I also encountered unfathomable apathy, disinterest, and what can only be described as learned helplessness. My lifelong liberalism took a pretty sound beating from the way I was treated, not only by my last principal, but by many of my students.
Am I a racist for realizing this? I don't think so. I am, like all of us, a product of my first-hand experience. And that experience makes me realize that racism, or the perception of racism, is a lot more complex than Mr. Kristof presents.
69
My parents also had a impression of Black people as inherently lazy and unintelligent at one point in their lives. My brother and I did not inherit their views. When they came to visit me at my university dorm, they encountered Black international students, who were neatly dressed, polite, and studied into the late hours of the night. They also met my and my brother's college friends, some of whom were Black Americans. It totally changed their view of Blacks. So yes, I agree with you there are problems but they aren't due to race inherently -- a lot of it is environment and upbringing.
4
I was apathetic, disinterested and felt helpless when I went to high school. It wasn't unfathomable; it was the result of child abuse by my father. Why would a teen care about school when her mental health had been destroyed? Why care about school when you feel dead and empty and are desperate for love.
You ask a fair question.
What kind of personal interaction does Mr Kristof have with a diverse America?
He seems quite comfortable smearing me and people who look like me, though I grew up in and now happily choose to own a home in one of the most diverse areas of the US.
As a white, I am, and have been for nearly all my life, a minority in my own 'hood. I'm fine with that.
But, according to him, I'm just ignorant about race.
On the contrary, according to Google, Mr. Kristof lives in an almost lily-white suburb north of NY City, attended the very diverse Harvard and Oxford universities, and grew up in rural Oregon.
Seriously, this guy spent his formative years in a bubble, now chooses to live in one, and he's white-splaing black folks for me?
Chutzpah for sure.
Although the typical building material in suburban NY is brick or wood, I'm starting to suspect that his house is made of glass...
What kind of personal interaction does Mr Kristof have with a diverse America?
He seems quite comfortable smearing me and people who look like me, though I grew up in and now happily choose to own a home in one of the most diverse areas of the US.
As a white, I am, and have been for nearly all my life, a minority in my own 'hood. I'm fine with that.
But, according to him, I'm just ignorant about race.
On the contrary, according to Google, Mr. Kristof lives in an almost lily-white suburb north of NY City, attended the very diverse Harvard and Oxford universities, and grew up in rural Oregon.
Seriously, this guy spent his formative years in a bubble, now chooses to live in one, and he's white-splaing black folks for me?
Chutzpah for sure.
Although the typical building material in suburban NY is brick or wood, I'm starting to suspect that his house is made of glass...
2
As usual, an excellent analysis, but where this piece falls down somewhat is in its hedge of the main tenet of the article, viz., that black underdevelopment is yes, caused primarily, by white racism amd the vicious legacy of white supremacy, but that the behavior of blacks within impoverished communities is at least part of the cause:
Kristoff writes:
"Sure, self-destructive behaviors are a strand of poverty (of every complexion), but blacks are cleareyed about this: 86 percent of blacks say that family breakup is a reason for difficulties of African-Americans today. And black churches and opinion leaders like President Obama have addressed this head-on with initiatives like My Brother’s Keeper."
This is not accurate and muddles the real source for lagging markers in the black community for average income, college degrees obtained, access to healthcare and home ownership, freedom from incarceration, and other markers. For, even in the Jim Crow South of 60 years ago, where there existed a strong and nurturing relgious and social fabric of church and community for black familes, there was still crushing poverty, lower wages, higher unemployment, lower educational attaintment. So even the argument that black underdevelopment is not mainly caused, but only partly, by lack of "greater personal responsbility", "restraint from having children out of wedlock" and all of the other ascriptions made (largely by whites) - is a seriously flawed.
No, the critical cause of
Kristoff writes:
"Sure, self-destructive behaviors are a strand of poverty (of every complexion), but blacks are cleareyed about this: 86 percent of blacks say that family breakup is a reason for difficulties of African-Americans today. And black churches and opinion leaders like President Obama have addressed this head-on with initiatives like My Brother’s Keeper."
This is not accurate and muddles the real source for lagging markers in the black community for average income, college degrees obtained, access to healthcare and home ownership, freedom from incarceration, and other markers. For, even in the Jim Crow South of 60 years ago, where there existed a strong and nurturing relgious and social fabric of church and community for black familes, there was still crushing poverty, lower wages, higher unemployment, lower educational attaintment. So even the argument that black underdevelopment is not mainly caused, but only partly, by lack of "greater personal responsbility", "restraint from having children out of wedlock" and all of the other ascriptions made (largely by whites) - is a seriously flawed.
No, the critical cause of
4
It is a fact, not a "delusion," that we elected a black man president and should stop using use discrimination in the past as a excuse for black failures today.
It also is a fact, and not a delusion, that the sole example of systemic, institutional racism in the US today the system of race-based preferences and quotas known as "affirmative action."
It also is a fact, and not a delusion, that the sole example of systemic, institutional racism in the US today the system of race-based preferences and quotas known as "affirmative action."
12
This comment would be spot-on, if systemic, institutional racism was the subject of the column.
1
This is complete nonsense! Obama's election proves there is no discrimination today? One election to one political office proves there is no discrimination in policing, or hiring in the public sector, or hiring in the private sector, or in how state and local elections are managed?
And the "sole example" of institutional racism is affirmative action? Over and over again, courts have ruled that any selection process in any institution in this country can ONLY take race into account if many other factors are included. Look it up!
But leaving that aside, do you seriously believe racial profiling doesn't happen, or that its not discrimination? How was 'stop and frisk' not discrimination? How are voter Id laws that have been shown to disadvantage blacks and other groups that tend to vote democratic not discrimination? How is ignoring what happened in Flint MI not indicative of the de-prioritizing by elected state officials of the needs of a predominantly black community?
Mr. Kristoff brought forth all kind of evidence showing racial discrimination. Where's your evidence against it?
And the "sole example" of institutional racism is affirmative action? Over and over again, courts have ruled that any selection process in any institution in this country can ONLY take race into account if many other factors are included. Look it up!
But leaving that aside, do you seriously believe racial profiling doesn't happen, or that its not discrimination? How was 'stop and frisk' not discrimination? How are voter Id laws that have been shown to disadvantage blacks and other groups that tend to vote democratic not discrimination? How is ignoring what happened in Flint MI not indicative of the de-prioritizing by elected state officials of the needs of a predominantly black community?
Mr. Kristoff brought forth all kind of evidence showing racial discrimination. Where's your evidence against it?
1
It is a fact, not a delusion, that discrimination against blacks is far greater than discrimination against whites. It is NOT a fact that affirmative action that is the sole example of systematic racism in this country.
Crosswalks are part of our lives but those of us who are white, myself included, don't generally think of them in terms of race.
Other environments are more commonplace locales for prejudice. Recently, my wife (who is Latina), two of our women friends (both Latina), and I met for dinner at a local upscale shopping center. Afterward, we asked them if they wanted to browse through some of the stores. "No," one replied, "we get profiled here, followed around. It's not pleasant." My wife said she understood from personal experience.
One of the women is a professor and a head coach at a local college; the other is a teacher with a master's degree from Harvard. My wife is a retired English professor. Their accomplishments and positions don't shield them from the prejudicial assumptions they routinely encounter in life. The majority of the readers out there never have to factor considerations like this into their lives. I don't either---unless I'm with my wife.
Other environments are more commonplace locales for prejudice. Recently, my wife (who is Latina), two of our women friends (both Latina), and I met for dinner at a local upscale shopping center. Afterward, we asked them if they wanted to browse through some of the stores. "No," one replied, "we get profiled here, followed around. It's not pleasant." My wife said she understood from personal experience.
One of the women is a professor and a head coach at a local college; the other is a teacher with a master's degree from Harvard. My wife is a retired English professor. Their accomplishments and positions don't shield them from the prejudicial assumptions they routinely encounter in life. The majority of the readers out there never have to factor considerations like this into their lives. I don't either---unless I'm with my wife.
17
A sober question Mr. McNew...Are they being profiled just to be profiled or for the fact that those that are caught...or suspected of shoplifting are of Hispanic origin?
The problem that your wife and her friends have is that underneath any stereotype there is a foundation of truth.
Perhaps, if they wish not to be profiled, they should join the rest of us in making sure that our friends and family take a real stand against the bad actors on whom the stereotype is based.
There is no question that it will take time to resolve the injustice, but unless we start down the road, we will never reach our destination.
Are you, your wife, and her friends willing to joint me in standing up against those how continue to make society less pleasant a place to live?
The problem that your wife and her friends have is that underneath any stereotype there is a foundation of truth.
Perhaps, if they wish not to be profiled, they should join the rest of us in making sure that our friends and family take a real stand against the bad actors on whom the stereotype is based.
There is no question that it will take time to resolve the injustice, but unless we start down the road, we will never reach our destination.
Are you, your wife, and her friends willing to joint me in standing up against those how continue to make society less pleasant a place to live?
2
Fascinating article for an attempt to continue "white guilt". Let's try another scenario. Study a weekly NFL football game. Obviously the players are heavily weighted to one ethnicity. Assuming you are familiar with common practices (and rules) of the game, watch closely as to general conduct towards the minority. Is it possible the same type of activity occurs? And, assuming that to be true, do we have systemic racism in another ethnicity? Which, assuming another answer in the affirmative, perhaps, in some way, is a partial component in explaining the present "marketing difficulty" approaching the NFL in pregame activities.
10
Sorry. But equating the racial composition of a NFL footbal game is hardly grounds for dismissing the existence of prejudice in this society.
2
An example of whatever 'reverse racism' is happening in the NFL would be really helpful here.
And what marketing difficulty are you referring to? I wasn't aware that the NFL had problems in that area.
I think something else is going on there. Because the yardstick for who has the opportunity to play is athletic talent alone, the NFL would be a perfect of the lack of racial discrimination, every one on the teams having made it there strictly on their own merits.
And what marketing difficulty are you referring to? I wasn't aware that the NFL had problems in that area.
I think something else is going on there. Because the yardstick for who has the opportunity to play is athletic talent alone, the NFL would be a perfect of the lack of racial discrimination, every one on the teams having made it there strictly on their own merits.
Please rewrite this: I think you're trying to say that you feel that the NFL has a marketing problem because it has too many Black players!
1
I think what is thorougly missing is a debate of black culture'. We use the term fondly all the time: French culinary culture, Italian culture, a sports obsessed culture etc. And we attribute certain traits to these cultures. Except in matters of race, there all a sudden comparisons are taboo: do Asians put more emphasis on education than blacks? On stable families? And if culture is a characteristic then it is attributable to that group and not to another. With that goes praise for its successes and blame for its failures. Except for blacks that discussion is taboo, or taboo for whites. I do not object to Mr Kristof's analysis per se, but the first objective should be to correct what you can correct yourself without blaming everybody else but yourself. And if the measure were pure plight of minorities, and not simply a combination of political correctness and guilt complex, then starting with native Americans might be much more rational: their plight beats black Amerians by almost any measure. But do your hear about them at all? Or Asians, Hispanics, and all other kind of minorities? Not nearly, not even close as much. What is the plight and comparative crime rates of poor whites, Hispanics? It would be refreshing to hear questions that address these comparative questions and in depth examine the role of 'culture' in social ills or their absence.
36
As to the comparative crime rates of whites and blacks, black males constitute about 7% of the population and are responsible for 50+% of all crimes.
4
Well, if you really want to make whites feel guilty, yes, but all means let's talk about the plight of Native Americans. But that won't disprove that discrimination against other minorities isn't a problem as well.
While I believe there is still much prejudice today, it is an overstatement to claim that discrimination is an impediment for black people to achieve their aspirations. The real problem that black peoples still have is the poor quality of their schools and the destructive effects that drugs have on black families and communities. These problems have been ignored by supposedly liberal politicians who's principal focus seems to be the middle class rather than the needs of black communities. It is in fact these same liberals who agured against affirmative action when it diminished their children's chance of getting accepted into state universities. This is an example not of prejudice but selfishness and a true lack of concern for the disadvantages that blacks suffer. Even liberals are unwilling to see what is still owed to a people that was enslaved, segregated and discriminated against for much of America history. Our recompense to them is not adequately met by our recognition of their equal rights. We must make thing right by dedicating our energies to fundamentally improving their lives and access to the American Dream that we all share.
7
Raul Campos: I think that "dedicating our energies....we all share.", should be for ALL our lower middle working class and poor class in America, regardless of race. Beginning in utero on up thru college or needed trade schools. I have written here several times about our need for a massive Marxhall Plan for the "lower half" that would include mental and physical health counseling and assistance as well as a stipend added to job income. Seattle's visiting nurse program is one example of a segment that would need to be developed.
Also, if you want to delve deeper, get Annette LaRue's "Unequal Childhoods", 2nd edition, Table D if you want to be stunned by this excellent 10-year longitudinal study childhood outcomes of multiple families in upper middle class, working class and poor. It shows you where we are falling down, very badly.
The motto for the Plan would be "The Future Begins In Utero". That doesn't mean have lots of babies---it means create a more level developmental field for the children that are born. The Pew folks have shown that our economic mobility is just slightly under Britain's (very rigid) and abysmal when compared with Denmark or Sweden (very fluid). Horatio Alger is definitely a myth in the USA of today for most youngsters growing up in our inner cities, poor towns, desolate countrysides, most often in great deprivation. Until that changes, nothing of significance will change for all races.
Also, if you want to delve deeper, get Annette LaRue's "Unequal Childhoods", 2nd edition, Table D if you want to be stunned by this excellent 10-year longitudinal study childhood outcomes of multiple families in upper middle class, working class and poor. It shows you where we are falling down, very badly.
The motto for the Plan would be "The Future Begins In Utero". That doesn't mean have lots of babies---it means create a more level developmental field for the children that are born. The Pew folks have shown that our economic mobility is just slightly under Britain's (very rigid) and abysmal when compared with Denmark or Sweden (very fluid). Horatio Alger is definitely a myth in the USA of today for most youngsters growing up in our inner cities, poor towns, desolate countrysides, most often in great deprivation. Until that changes, nothing of significance will change for all races.
You won't win the argument. My one counter proves the point, and it's a question? Answer it carefully. It's a simple one! The answer is right in front of your face!
Are you ready?
Ok!
Here it is!
What do you mean when you use the term "their" schools? It should really be "our" schools, right? I mean, in America, we don't have segregated schools...right? That's against the law...right?
Right?
Are you ready?
Ok!
Here it is!
What do you mean when you use the term "their" schools? It should really be "our" schools, right? I mean, in America, we don't have segregated schools...right? That's against the law...right?
Right?
1
The bigger issue is what can be done. We have laws prohibiting out right racial discrimination in employment, housing, banking practices, etc... Addressing often sub-conscious attitudes may not be possible. While I applaud ongoing efforts to raise consciousness. I am very skeptical that anything authorities can do will impact individual attitudes, especially among the type of people who are drawn to Trump and the GOP who so readily dismiss data and facts.
2
One must consider race-specific behavioral characteristics when interpreting the often biased, "racial bias" studies. Anyone who drives in both white and black urban neighborhoods knows that there is a clear racial difference in the propensity for jay-walking. Though white, I actually jay-walk often. This could explain, in part, the behavior of motorists (presumably white) in the study here. Since I also tend to roll through stop-signs, I immediately feel in good company when I drive in the city of St. Louis (but not in St. Louis County). My exceptionality proves the rule. These "rules" are unconsciously recognized by all humans and their responses to related circumstances then reflect this (along with any potential unfounded prejudices.) In short, not all prejudices are unfounded - in all directions in all groups. This makes things more complicated than many people want.
7
"...whites seem curiously unwilling to shoulder any responsibility for our own part in racial inequity. If we’re so concerned with 'personal responsibility,' shouldn’t we show some?"
As reasonable and proper as that question is, it mis-interprets the underlying message of those who tout personal responsibility as the cure to society's ills. What they really mean is: your problems are entirely your own fault, and we feel no obligation to help you. It's merely victim blaming and cold indifference dressed up as virtue.
As reasonable and proper as that question is, it mis-interprets the underlying message of those who tout personal responsibility as the cure to society's ills. What they really mean is: your problems are entirely your own fault, and we feel no obligation to help you. It's merely victim blaming and cold indifference dressed up as virtue.
11
"What they really mean is: your problems are entirely your own fault, and we feel no obligation to help you. It's merely victim blaming and cold indifference dressed up as virtue."
You say this almost as if you think there's something wrong with cold indifference dressed up as virtue. Huh. Weird.
You say this almost as if you think there's something wrong with cold indifference dressed up as virtue. Huh. Weird.
"This year, Pager published a follow-up based on what had happened to these businesses in the 2008 recession. She found that the companies that had discriminated were significantly more likely to have gone out of business — which may suggest a price tag for discrimination."
Yet, ironically, the very fact of having gone out of business may well have increased, not decreased the racial biases among the very people who ran and operated these businesses. It would be interesting to find out if that were, in fact, true.
Yet, ironically, the very fact of having gone out of business may well have increased, not decreased the racial biases among the very people who ran and operated these businesses. It would be interesting to find out if that were, in fact, true.
4
As usual, well written arguments about ethnic discrimination ("racism" is a misnomer, in my opinion), blind spots in our culture so ingrained we don't even realize how systemic it is. And further, that it has real implications in denying others that may not look like us the rights we 'whites' take for granted.
It takes constant appropriate secular education to dissuade us from our ways, noxious in perpetuating this injustice. The Golden Rule applies here, even better if we can force ourselves to walk in our brother's shoes. And trump, the enabler, seems more than happy to give 'permission' to his 'mob' to act out their odious white supremacist nonsense.
It takes constant appropriate secular education to dissuade us from our ways, noxious in perpetuating this injustice. The Golden Rule applies here, even better if we can force ourselves to walk in our brother's shoes. And trump, the enabler, seems more than happy to give 'permission' to his 'mob' to act out their odious white supremacist nonsense.
10
"Denial" about racial inequity?
Perhaps some are but I suggest many are tired of it, not in denial.
Things are tough all over. Put women in those crosswalks. I'm sure cars would stop much sooner for them than for the men, white or black.
So, is this evidence of some great anti-male sexism in our society? Maybe, but our selective reading of this sort of evidence means that the only bias we care about is against whoever we decide are victims. Indeed, were you to even suggest this reading, the fingers would go in ears and the chants of "privilege," "structural sexism, racism," and whatnot would drown out any actual discussion.
The point is, we all face bias of some sort. No doubt the laid off white steelworker is aware of racial bias, but is tired of seeing the inevitable tagline "Women and minorities encourages to apply" at the bottom of every job application.
Why is his application not as welcome as that of a minority, one who may have just arrived in America, or one with far greater "privilege" than he? Why should the applications of Sasha and Malia be more welcome than those of his own children?
Americans are sympathetic to legitimate claims of discrimination, but many are tired of it being used as a catch all excuse. And they are tired of being assumed to be racists. Obama wouldn't have won without white working class votes. Let's not just assume racism now because some former Obama voters are now choosing Trump.
It's reductionist and self-defeating.
Perhaps some are but I suggest many are tired of it, not in denial.
Things are tough all over. Put women in those crosswalks. I'm sure cars would stop much sooner for them than for the men, white or black.
So, is this evidence of some great anti-male sexism in our society? Maybe, but our selective reading of this sort of evidence means that the only bias we care about is against whoever we decide are victims. Indeed, were you to even suggest this reading, the fingers would go in ears and the chants of "privilege," "structural sexism, racism," and whatnot would drown out any actual discussion.
The point is, we all face bias of some sort. No doubt the laid off white steelworker is aware of racial bias, but is tired of seeing the inevitable tagline "Women and minorities encourages to apply" at the bottom of every job application.
Why is his application not as welcome as that of a minority, one who may have just arrived in America, or one with far greater "privilege" than he? Why should the applications of Sasha and Malia be more welcome than those of his own children?
Americans are sympathetic to legitimate claims of discrimination, but many are tired of it being used as a catch all excuse. And they are tired of being assumed to be racists. Obama wouldn't have won without white working class votes. Let's not just assume racism now because some former Obama voters are now choosing Trump.
It's reductionist and self-defeating.
68
You have to understand the problem from the ground up to see it in its full impact in American life. Most white people are blind and, as you noted, tired of hearing about it and they are tired, in part, because they never learned the history of racism and what happened in this country.
I was a history major in college and deeply interested in problems of race and, oh yeah, wondering how we could resolve things. The only post-childhood heros in public figures I had were Malcolm X and Martin Luther King, in that order. Yet, as a history major, I missed the fullness of what happened between 1865, the end of the Civil War, and the race riot in Tulsa, Oklahoma, in 1921 where 300 people, mainly blacks, were slaughtered and burned in a single night, often with assistance by police officers.
Don't assume you know. If you are not willing to undertake personal study, take the word of those who have and have dedicated their lives to correcting this problem and moving toward a fuller, freer America.
By the way, the street crossing matter was just an experiment to learn about racist attitudes that people don't even realize they have, it wasn't a be all, end all. No one is assuming, by the way, that racial motivations are a factor in supporting Trump. He has made that appeal explicit, clear, out in the open.
I was a history major in college and deeply interested in problems of race and, oh yeah, wondering how we could resolve things. The only post-childhood heros in public figures I had were Malcolm X and Martin Luther King, in that order. Yet, as a history major, I missed the fullness of what happened between 1865, the end of the Civil War, and the race riot in Tulsa, Oklahoma, in 1921 where 300 people, mainly blacks, were slaughtered and burned in a single night, often with assistance by police officers.
Don't assume you know. If you are not willing to undertake personal study, take the word of those who have and have dedicated their lives to correcting this problem and moving toward a fuller, freer America.
By the way, the street crossing matter was just an experiment to learn about racist attitudes that people don't even realize they have, it wasn't a be all, end all. No one is assuming, by the way, that racial motivations are a factor in supporting Trump. He has made that appeal explicit, clear, out in the open.
40
"Things are tough all over. Put women in those crosswalks. I'm sure cars would stop much sooner for them than for the men, white or black."
Alas, Tiger, the flaw in your entire argument is in this assumption, "I'm sure..." It is exactly the purpose of scientific studies to root out such assumptions and biases in what we think and say is true, some far more insidious and hidden than yours.
When such studies as Mr. Kristof reports on make us so uncomfortable that we defend the very facts that they reveal, we should stop and think about the house of cards upon which our view of the world might be built, not like Trump try to defend what we have built as it is clearly collapsing around us.
Alas, Tiger, the flaw in your entire argument is in this assumption, "I'm sure..." It is exactly the purpose of scientific studies to root out such assumptions and biases in what we think and say is true, some far more insidious and hidden than yours.
When such studies as Mr. Kristof reports on make us so uncomfortable that we defend the very facts that they reveal, we should stop and think about the house of cards upon which our view of the world might be built, not like Trump try to defend what we have built as it is clearly collapsing around us.
13
Well, alrighty then. Guess who is really tired? Black folks, women, and other minorities are really tired about white men whining because their place in the world is no longer automatically guaranteed. Boo-hoo. Talk to me in several hundred years. And worry less about whatever privilege you think Malia and Sasha have and more about all of the undeserving legacy white folks hogging limited slots at the nations most prestigious schools. Do they even pretend to try? Not likely.
1
"America’s education system is structured so that white suburban children often get an excellent public education, while inner-city black kids disproportionally get a third-rate education."
My suburb of Detroit spends slightly less per student than the Detroit Public School system. We have a 97% graduation rate. Detroit has a 77% graduation rate. Which by the way is just under the state average of 79.8%.
I attended Detroit Public Schools. With the onset of court ordered bussing things became violent within the schools. People moved out because of the school system's degradation. White flight didn't cause the problem, it was a reaction to it. This was taken by caring parents who didn't want to risk their children's education because of race based schemes. But someone has to be blamed.
Does NY City have court ordered bussing for the purposes of school desegregation? One would think a progressive city like NY wouldn't need court ordered bussing, the good people of NY City would take it upon themselves to make sure its schools are integrated. Is that the case? Go work on that for awhile then come back and tell everyone how that worked out.
My suburb of Detroit spends slightly less per student than the Detroit Public School system. We have a 97% graduation rate. Detroit has a 77% graduation rate. Which by the way is just under the state average of 79.8%.
I attended Detroit Public Schools. With the onset of court ordered bussing things became violent within the schools. People moved out because of the school system's degradation. White flight didn't cause the problem, it was a reaction to it. This was taken by caring parents who didn't want to risk their children's education because of race based schemes. But someone has to be blamed.
Does NY City have court ordered bussing for the purposes of school desegregation? One would think a progressive city like NY wouldn't need court ordered bussing, the good people of NY City would take it upon themselves to make sure its schools are integrated. Is that the case? Go work on that for awhile then come back and tell everyone how that worked out.
33
I do not think that NYC schools have enough white and/or asian student to allow all minority children to attend a majority white school. In addition, if NYC was to implement forced bussing many white parents would move out of the city or send their children to private schools.
3
I think the riots were what caused massive white flight in Detroit. I think this is wrong. Fear drove people to things that were unnecessary. Stay in your neighborhoods. Studies have shown that housing values go down, not when blacks move in, but when whites move out. All of the houses going on the market near the same time make it a buyers market and not a sellers market. Stay in your homes. Live with your new black neighbors and learn. Stop running in fear..you ruin things for yourself, your city and your new neighbors and neighborhood. Learn to live with each other.
1
@Charles: All minorities wouldn't attend white schools. But white students would be bused to African American majority schools because they would benefit from the diversity, per the grand plan of things. Kristof would be happy.
Whites would move out of the city if busing were enforced? So you think so? That sounds like something would only occur in flyover country.
Whites would move out of the city if busing were enforced? So you think so? That sounds like something would only occur in flyover country.
1
I was extremely fortunate and privileged, as an African, to apply to and get admission to an elite American university. After admission, I had to more or less foot the full cost for my education and it took considerable fundraising efforts from my family to send me to the States.
Interestingly, my white classmates all assumed that I was very lucky (their words) because I automatically qualified for full assistance to attend the university. None of them believed that I had none, despite the fact that I was working the fully allowed 20 hours per week to help meet my expenses. I guess their assumption was that all black people will receive assistance (while denying them?)
No matter how hard I studied and did well in class, it was always assumed (through whispered comments to me) that I was being graded differently. My brain did not seem capable of attaining excellence, subconsciously, to them.
And, I was always asked which sports team I was in (I casually play sports but never took any up aggressively). Here again, the assumption was that I must be good at sports but incapable of good grades (without help) and on some form of financial assistance unavailable to my white classmates.
I just learnt to pretend I did not hear the comments or move on without a fuss. I did not want to inadvertently become known as the angry black person.
While my experience in America was great, I think these are the kind of issues Nicholas raises in his column today: subconscious bias.
Interestingly, my white classmates all assumed that I was very lucky (their words) because I automatically qualified for full assistance to attend the university. None of them believed that I had none, despite the fact that I was working the fully allowed 20 hours per week to help meet my expenses. I guess their assumption was that all black people will receive assistance (while denying them?)
No matter how hard I studied and did well in class, it was always assumed (through whispered comments to me) that I was being graded differently. My brain did not seem capable of attaining excellence, subconsciously, to them.
And, I was always asked which sports team I was in (I casually play sports but never took any up aggressively). Here again, the assumption was that I must be good at sports but incapable of good grades (without help) and on some form of financial assistance unavailable to my white classmates.
I just learnt to pretend I did not hear the comments or move on without a fuss. I did not want to inadvertently become known as the angry black person.
While my experience in America was great, I think these are the kind of issues Nicholas raises in his column today: subconscious bias.
625
When I was in school, the first affirmative action court battles were beginning to heat up.
A conservative paper stated that minority students were being let into the school with lower grades and test scores than white students. Minority students, enraged, marched to the deans office and demanded that he set the record straight. He couldn't, because the allegation was, in fact, true.
Whether you approve of affirmative action or not, your story illustrates one of the undeniable negatives of affirmative action- the devaluing of achievement.
Sorry about that.
A conservative paper stated that minority students were being let into the school with lower grades and test scores than white students. Minority students, enraged, marched to the deans office and demanded that he set the record straight. He couldn't, because the allegation was, in fact, true.
Whether you approve of affirmative action or not, your story illustrates one of the undeniable negatives of affirmative action- the devaluing of achievement.
Sorry about that.
39
Some years ago I interviewed a black man who talked about the difficulties he encountered pursuing a graduate degree in the sciences. Like Godfrey he above, he continually encountered whites who believed he did not really deserve to be there, that someone had rigged things in his favor. He experienced all this in the early 1960s, long before anyone had dreamed of affirmative action. This example suggests that conservative views of affirmative action simply replicate the stereotypes of the past, rather than having any basis in reality.
10
...Sub-conscious bias possibly affirmed by decades of "affirmative action". Programs to help disadvantaged people should be race blind, otherwise they carry the very real cost of tainting those they intend to help.
1
Professor of Religion Randall Ballmer said in Wash Post on May 16. "The religious right was never about the advancement of biblical values. The
modern, politically conservative evangelical movement we know is a movement rooted in the perpetuation of racial
segregation, and its affiliation with the hardright
fringes of the conservative movement in the late 1970s produced a mutant
form of evangelicalism inconsistent with the best traditions of evangelicalism itself. Since then, evangelicals have embraced
increasingly secular positions divorced from any biblical grounding, and supporting Donald Trump represents the logical
conclusion of that tragic aberration.?
modern, politically conservative evangelical movement we know is a movement rooted in the perpetuation of racial
segregation, and its affiliation with the hardright
fringes of the conservative movement in the late 1970s produced a mutant
form of evangelicalism inconsistent with the best traditions of evangelicalism itself. Since then, evangelicals have embraced
increasingly secular positions divorced from any biblical grounding, and supporting Donald Trump represents the logical
conclusion of that tragic aberration.?
24
cmuscop: Not sure about racism trumps bible. What I think I see is a lot of insecure people. They get to believe what they want to believe, but they need the affirmation and agreement of others to reassure them that they, the extremist believers, are right. Disagreement, however civilized, is unsettling to many. "Who do you think you are? You know better than me?"
1
Quit listening to ivory tower theories about the failings of religion. American higher educational institutions have long stirred the intellectual primordial soup that has given us such nonsense as political correctness, post modern secularism and anti-cultural appropriation.
1
It is directly related to FDR's Dixiecrats and Nixon's Southern Strategy, and before that to the racial biases that arose out of Reconstruction and the resultant Jim Crow laws. You could look it up...
Contrary to what nearly everyone seems to believe, I think race relations are generally better now than they have ever been. Why? First, young people growing up today seem to me far less racist than my generation (baby boomers), most of whom were raised in a cloud of isolated ignorance about racial issues. But, second, and more importantly, the quality of the public has improved (despite Trump's efforts to drag it back into the gutter). Blacks today can complain (rightly) with much less fear of reprisal precisely because relations have improved. Yes, Trumpism has brought more bigotry out of the closet. But that is not the same as creating more bigots. Maybe I am too hopeful, but I see this latest round of conflict and anguish as what I hope will ultimately propel us even closer to the peace and fairness that most of us (regardless of race) long for.
20
sorry. meant to say "public discourse" but left out the word discourse.
I share your optimism while fearing the worst.
I'm not sure what Kristof's goal is with this and other articles which ostensibly blame all whites as a group.
Kristof says people wouldn't stop for black pedestrians. I stop for all pedestrians when I am able to stop in time. I"m not a teacher, so I can't mete out punishments on children of any race. I'm not a medical professional at an emergency room, so I don't have the ability to give more medication to people of a certain race. I'm not an employer, so I'm not able to favor those of one race over another. I'm not in government, so I can't stop lead poisoning of children in Flint or chemical poisoning of the ground in Picher, Oklahoma.
In short, I"m not in a position to either provide or deny services or opportunities to those Kristof mentions, or others. Yet Kristof seeks to include me in a global accusation heaved at all white people, through the use of inappropriate and offensive stereotypes.
I'd like to suggest that we stop viewing everything that happens in the world in terms of race. Life and reality are just too complex for such a simplistic view.
Kristof says people wouldn't stop for black pedestrians. I stop for all pedestrians when I am able to stop in time. I"m not a teacher, so I can't mete out punishments on children of any race. I'm not a medical professional at an emergency room, so I don't have the ability to give more medication to people of a certain race. I'm not an employer, so I'm not able to favor those of one race over another. I'm not in government, so I can't stop lead poisoning of children in Flint or chemical poisoning of the ground in Picher, Oklahoma.
In short, I"m not in a position to either provide or deny services or opportunities to those Kristof mentions, or others. Yet Kristof seeks to include me in a global accusation heaved at all white people, through the use of inappropriate and offensive stereotypes.
I'd like to suggest that we stop viewing everything that happens in the world in terms of race. Life and reality are just too complex for such a simplistic view.
76
As manfred marcus notes, 'ethnic discrimination ("racism" is a misnomer, in my opinion)' affects everyone in one way or another. One reason Mr. Kristof focuses on ethnic bias against blacks by whites is that white citizens still really do control most of the power and wealth in this nation. The fact that many whites do not share that wealth and power does not mean they do not also benefit from it as nominal members of the same "tribe."
I fact, some of the worst bigots (Trump among them) really care nothing for the lesser tribal members among them, except to use as sounding boards and echo chambers for their own rantings. Such bigots actually rejoice in making their lesser members of the tribe feel more powerful than they ever will be in reality, because this shared hatred makes all who share it feel more powerful until the destruction that it wreaks comes back to rip themselves apart at some point in the future.
I'm sorry, but if you cannot stand the light that is shown on your own bigotry, don't blame anyone but yourself. All of us, no matter our ethnicity, need light shown on our bigotry so we might have an opportunity to see and maybe mitigate it in ourselves before we presume to show it in others. Mr. Kristof is doing all of us whites a favor by helping us to see where we are blind.
I fact, some of the worst bigots (Trump among them) really care nothing for the lesser tribal members among them, except to use as sounding boards and echo chambers for their own rantings. Such bigots actually rejoice in making their lesser members of the tribe feel more powerful than they ever will be in reality, because this shared hatred makes all who share it feel more powerful until the destruction that it wreaks comes back to rip themselves apart at some point in the future.
I'm sorry, but if you cannot stand the light that is shown on your own bigotry, don't blame anyone but yourself. All of us, no matter our ethnicity, need light shown on our bigotry so we might have an opportunity to see and maybe mitigate it in ourselves before we presume to show it in others. Mr. Kristof is doing all of us whites a favor by helping us to see where we are blind.
8
You completely missed the point. Everywhere it is measured there is shown racism and prejudice. Just because you have not been measured does not mean it is not there. And the fact that you think you can look at yourself and pronounce yourself clean is evidence you are not looking or don't want to. The only simplistic view represented in your words is that centuries of cultural racism can just disappear because you say it is so.
4
Terrific!
Allow me to raise an uncomfortable topic, since we are talking about racism.
Why is crime higher in black majority neighborhoods?
Why is the biggest danger to a young black male another young black male?
Why is the proportion of female single mothers higher in majority black neighborhoods?
In poor schools with diverse student populations, why do black children do worse than other minority students?
Why aren't we talking about this?
Why will I be accused of racism for even broaching the subject?
Isn't the first step in solving a problem, to recognize that there is a problem?
BTW, this is not some intellectual exercise for me. I live in a poor section of town. There are 38 different languages spoken within 5 miles of my apartment. There are police helicopters flying above my house most nights. A crime map of my portion of the city looks like it has measles. I have a stake in the answers to the above questions.
Why is crime higher in black majority neighborhoods?
Why is the biggest danger to a young black male another young black male?
Why is the proportion of female single mothers higher in majority black neighborhoods?
In poor schools with diverse student populations, why do black children do worse than other minority students?
Why aren't we talking about this?
Why will I be accused of racism for even broaching the subject?
Isn't the first step in solving a problem, to recognize that there is a problem?
BTW, this is not some intellectual exercise for me. I live in a poor section of town. There are 38 different languages spoken within 5 miles of my apartment. There are police helicopters flying above my house most nights. A crime map of my portion of the city looks like it has measles. I have a stake in the answers to the above questions.
175
I think you answered your question yourself. You live in a "poor section of town." How well have you gotten to know your neighbors? Have you made any effort to volunteer as a mentor/big brother to a minority child? The poor in your neighborhood who are immigrants have a different background from those who are descendants of slaves. Often immigrants are those who are strongest and most daring to be able to leave a difficult situation and go to a foreign country to better their lot. They start with ambition. Others may feel hopeless, being born into systemic poverty to parents who have long since lost hope and ambition. And it is not always minorities committing horrible crimes. Weekly, or more often, our local paper carries stories of children killed by parents or other family members and these are white families. The problem is poverty. And often the problem is physical poisoning. In Flint a huge percentage of children have been poisoned by lead and this has often been the case in the inner cities for over a hundred years. In other parts of the country like West Virginia the poisons from mine tailings get into the water supply. Not only do these poisons affect physical health, they affect mental health.
20
You are employing a very standard and dishonest rhetorical strategy: phrasing questions in a way that implies that the answers are obvious, without demonstrating that the answers are the ones you imply. And the implied answer, to be clear about it, is that of all these problems are the sole and inherent fault of black people. You are also implying that your willful ignorance of other factors that might influence these issues is some kind of virtue instead of...what's the word I'm looking for? Willful, bigoted blindness - yeah, that's it. After generations of red-lining and economic discrimination and exploitation of the poor, blaming the existence of ghettos and the conditions therein on the inhabitants is just ignorant and cruel. After hundreds of years of the systematic destruction of the black family and the humiliation and murder of black men, pretending to wonder about the irresponsibility of fathers in black communities is unemphatic at best, humiliatingly cruel at worst. Complaining about being accused of being a racist, implying that this is worse than actually being a racist, is self-centered childishness.
The black community has a lot of faults to correct - no denying that. But I find your attitude offensive and embarrassing - and I'm white.
The black community has a lot of faults to correct - no denying that. But I find your attitude offensive and embarrassing - and I'm white.
30
Bruce, please read "Between the World and Me" by Ta-Nehisi Coates.
4
We elected a black man president, so let’s stop using past discrimination as an excuse for black failures today.
***
This talk about black failure assumes that there's white success. The truth is a ton of whites experience the same failures as black people in their class. Consider the recent spate of heroin addiction and how whites have been affected. Comparable to cocaine and crack effects of yesteryears.
I'll make this really easy. Blacks are not looking for special treatment. Blacks want equal treatment. That goes for the justice system, policing, school systems, hiring, etc. Whites should stop acting like blacks desiring equal treatment in some way threatens their status. Unless that's what they wanted all along.
***
This talk about black failure assumes that there's white success. The truth is a ton of whites experience the same failures as black people in their class. Consider the recent spate of heroin addiction and how whites have been affected. Comparable to cocaine and crack effects of yesteryears.
I'll make this really easy. Blacks are not looking for special treatment. Blacks want equal treatment. That goes for the justice system, policing, school systems, hiring, etc. Whites should stop acting like blacks desiring equal treatment in some way threatens their status. Unless that's what they wanted all along.
148
"Blacks are not looking for special treatment. "
Blacks may not want "special treatment" but they have been getting it for 50 years under "affirmative action" which applies only to them.
Blacks may not want "special treatment" but they have been getting it for 50 years under "affirmative action" which applies only to them.
8
Josy: I'm not sure about whites acting like blacks. A basic fact is that the world has changed immensely: end of Cold War; acceleration of outsourcing; flight of actual corporations, liberating them from national ties and controls. How do workers fight back against capitalists who have become shadows in foreign hide-aways? The mine is no longer owned by the man in the big house up the hill.
1
"Blacks are not looking for special treatment. Blacks want equal treatment."
That sounds nice, but you lose sight of the basic truth that a fair and just system is one that gives advantages to whites.
...Apparently.
That sounds nice, but you lose sight of the basic truth that a fair and just system is one that gives advantages to whites.
...Apparently.
Discrimination and racism have become a catch-all and a unifying theory, i.e. a paradigm. It's just like witchcraft in the Middle Ages: people blamed it for everything and many were absolutely convinced they were targeted by witches. Many people had terrible experiences or even died, which was attributed to witchcraft.
According to a modern paradigm, this is bogus. It's not that witches didn't exist or they didn't poison someone from time to time or didn't make people feel uncomfortable. However, they didn't do even a hundredth of what was attributed to them. Moreover, not everyone who was burned as a witch was one.
A more relevant example is saboteurs in the Soviet Union; they probably existed, but were not well-organized, were many fewer than claimed, and were not responsible for the debacle of the Soviet economy (communism and the demoralization it caused were). Basically, they were communists' version of witches.
Nowadays we're in full postmodernism. If someone says their suffering is attributable to witchcraft, we're just supposed to believe them, without any research. Not coincidentally, witchcraft is also back in fashion. Not much longer until saboteurs are also back.
PS I am aware that my "explanations" only strengthen some people's belief in witches and saboteurs.
According to a modern paradigm, this is bogus. It's not that witches didn't exist or they didn't poison someone from time to time or didn't make people feel uncomfortable. However, they didn't do even a hundredth of what was attributed to them. Moreover, not everyone who was burned as a witch was one.
A more relevant example is saboteurs in the Soviet Union; they probably existed, but were not well-organized, were many fewer than claimed, and were not responsible for the debacle of the Soviet economy (communism and the demoralization it caused were). Basically, they were communists' version of witches.
Nowadays we're in full postmodernism. If someone says their suffering is attributable to witchcraft, we're just supposed to believe them, without any research. Not coincidentally, witchcraft is also back in fashion. Not much longer until saboteurs are also back.
PS I am aware that my "explanations" only strengthen some people's belief in witches and saboteurs.
20
MB: Thanks for the textbook example of modern racism as described in the article.
34
You're welcome, have fun witch hunting! Hopefully the Soviet economy will improve as a consequence!
6
Thomas's comment only demonstrates the Catch 22 element of this situation. If you disagree, you yourself are accused of the crime you disagree with happening. For all those that fully buy into this narrative about race, please see Mr. Zaslavsky's post and ask yourself if you want to be part of a movement that labels people that disagree with them racists.
5
The audience which responds to the dog whistles of race are there, but Trump's biggest appeal is to men in general. Racism does play into this election, but not as much as presently challenged male superiority.
Regardless skin color men share a very similar characteristic and that is to put women in the back.
Rosa Parks took a seat at the front of the bus and changed America.
Hillary Rodham may change the world.
Regardless skin color men share a very similar characteristic and that is to put women in the back.
Rosa Parks took a seat at the front of the bus and changed America.
Hillary Rodham may change the world.
61
"Challenged male superiority" and White supremacy go hand in hand.
2
Misogyny is the unspoken companion of white male racism in America, 2016.
And vice versa.
This election is really about the disruption of social dominance hierarchy in America.
And vice versa.
This election is really about the disruption of social dominance hierarchy in America.
2
She may indeed change it for the worse.
4
I totally agree that racism is an issue in America, and institutional racism in particular is a destructive force.
But I would like to see more reflection about where class and race connect - and where one or the other is more the issue. Some of the examples in this article are definitely race-connected, but aren't some more related to class? What kind of education do black kids in a wealthy suburb get? How about inner city white kids? The paragraph talking about "irresponsible behavior by blacks" and then equating it with teenage pregnancy and poverty is confusing -- I'm pretty sure white teenagers get pregnant too, and teenage pregnancy of any color is probably pretty highly linked to poverty. So what are you talking about here - class or race?
But I would like to see more reflection about where class and race connect - and where one or the other is more the issue. Some of the examples in this article are definitely race-connected, but aren't some more related to class? What kind of education do black kids in a wealthy suburb get? How about inner city white kids? The paragraph talking about "irresponsible behavior by blacks" and then equating it with teenage pregnancy and poverty is confusing -- I'm pretty sure white teenagers get pregnant too, and teenage pregnancy of any color is probably pretty highly linked to poverty. So what are you talking about here - class or race?
138
I had the same concerns when I read this. Some of the things examples, like funding of school districts, is more about discrimination based on economic or social class than it is about race. We see the same thing in areas where the poor are mostly white. The people in power are rarely elected or appointed from among the poor. They allocate resources where their influential constituents want it, and those people too, are not the poor.
Without doubt, black Americans have been systematically oppressed throughout our history, and thus are disproportionately poor - with resulting low socioeconomic status. It's frustrating to see modern-day Americans justifying racism when the symptoms and behaviors they're seeing are due to economic condition, not race.
It's important when making an argument like Kristof is making here to distinguish between the two issues - racial and economic discrimination, as the motivations for each can be very different.
Without doubt, black Americans have been systematically oppressed throughout our history, and thus are disproportionately poor - with resulting low socioeconomic status. It's frustrating to see modern-day Americans justifying racism when the symptoms and behaviors they're seeing are due to economic condition, not race.
It's important when making an argument like Kristof is making here to distinguish between the two issues - racial and economic discrimination, as the motivations for each can be very different.
15
Both issues are valid, and there is intersectionalism. That truth is often used to derail conversation about either. It is possible to report on either one independently, or on their intersection and be correct. In fact, it strikes me as very important that all three approaches be treated with respect if we are to build a better society.
10
No, the issue is not class. Lower class white peoples still have more wealth and privilege than more educated, higher earning black folks.
2
"Supporters of Donald Trump are more likely than other voters to tell pollsters that blacks are 'lazy,' 'violent' and 'unintelligent.'"
And supporters of Hillary Clinton are more likely than other voters to tell pollsters that whites are ‘xenophobic,’ 'racist,” and ‘homophobic.’ When will they see the intrinsic hypocrisy of their views?
And supporters of Hillary Clinton are more likely than other voters to tell pollsters that whites are ‘xenophobic,’ 'racist,” and ‘homophobic.’ When will they see the intrinsic hypocrisy of their views?
78
This is not hypocrisy. The first set of statements is generally false. The second set, at least applied to white Trump supporters, is generally true.
4
I'm sorry, but this sounds terribly like the white supremacists who claim that the people who "discriminate" against them are the "real racists".
4
Perhaps you should research the old English trope, "the Gentleman's code". Basically, when one is "On Top", then one MUST be held to a higher standard. Holding a tank crew and a couple of guys with sticks to the same standards is stupid. I laugh at the Israeli occupation forces demanding that resistance fighters stand out in the open so they can be slaughtered by modern weaponry. Fair ain't fair when capabilities aren't equal.
Duane Edward Buck defense team—not the prosecution—entered a study conducted by a psychologist who testified on Buck’s behalf into evidence. The study showed, among other things, that black people were statistically more likely to commit violence. The prosecution made the mistake of questioning the psychologist about this portion of the study. However, the prosecution contends that the jury viewed Buck as a continuing threat to society because he shot his ex-girlfriend and one of her friends to death. He also shot his own sister, who happen to be at his ex-girlfriend’s home
11
Yes, all of this about racism is true.
So why does Kristof begin with, "LET me raise an uncomfortable topic?"
Why is that "uncomfortable?"
It is an outrage. An outrage is not "uncomfortable" to mention. We ought to denounce it, loud and proud.
Why not? Perhaps Kristof is caught up in a bit of the fear of backlash, the backlash he here assigns to Trump and other bad people.
Does he think that of his readers too?
Does he think they too share enough Trump-think to be uncomfortable?
It is NOT an "uncomfortable topic" except for those who are not clear on this as totally true, and totally wrong.
So why does Kristof begin with, "LET me raise an uncomfortable topic?"
Why is that "uncomfortable?"
It is an outrage. An outrage is not "uncomfortable" to mention. We ought to denounce it, loud and proud.
Why not? Perhaps Kristof is caught up in a bit of the fear of backlash, the backlash he here assigns to Trump and other bad people.
Does he think that of his readers too?
Does he think they too share enough Trump-think to be uncomfortable?
It is NOT an "uncomfortable topic" except for those who are not clear on this as totally true, and totally wrong.
14
The subject of 'Race' is, has been, and will always be an "uncomfortable" topic in America.
Not only because of its vast and brutal history in this country -- but because most tend to approach it with a combination of fear, loathing and denial.
Not only because of its vast and brutal history in this country -- but because most tend to approach it with a combination of fear, loathing and denial.
3
Have you read this comment section?
4
way past "curiously unwilling" is the repression of guilt for the genocide that was the spearhead, if you will, of this country's settlement, the near extermination of the red race, the native tribes, and the repeated betrayal and confinement of the survivors, and now their descendants.
the wager here is that facing that fact of our history and making amends, will, as relief from guilt generally does, make the rest a lot easier.
by all means "let's really talk about race," better, let's stop talking and DO something, and we may find that while there are difficulties (heavy lifting is never easy) "complexities" (always a good excuse for delay in, and avoidance of, lifting) will disappear.
german playwright bertolt brecht famously said (in english translation) "first feed the face and then talk right and wrong": we could start by making sure that no child starts a school day hungry...or in poor health.
then, if it must, let the "conversation," no doubt over breakfast or lunch, proceed.
the wager here is that facing that fact of our history and making amends, will, as relief from guilt generally does, make the rest a lot easier.
by all means "let's really talk about race," better, let's stop talking and DO something, and we may find that while there are difficulties (heavy lifting is never easy) "complexities" (always a good excuse for delay in, and avoidance of, lifting) will disappear.
german playwright bertolt brecht famously said (in english translation) "first feed the face and then talk right and wrong": we could start by making sure that no child starts a school day hungry...or in poor health.
then, if it must, let the "conversation," no doubt over breakfast or lunch, proceed.
10
Should be: ...german playwright bertolt brecht famous woman-hater.
Whites have been in control of this country for so long they believe that any diminution of that power is a sign of decline of not only Western Civilization but the entire world.
It is hard for many not all Whites to assume like Churchill that the English-speaking White Race was superior to all others. They would point to the advances of European nations while the African and to lesser extent the Asian continents seemed to fall behind in what we deemed important. The Industrial Revolution, the advancement of the mass production, consumptive consumerism, these were all things to value. What we loss in the basic tenets of living The Good Life we gained in baubles. bangles and beads. We measured our wealth by our possessions, how much, how big. Nations who fell behind did so because they were not as clever, as astute, as smart as we. It inherently had to be something to do with White superiority, no?
Well no. Though most Americans know our nation is an amalgam of English, Dutch, French and Spanish Empires who conquered and divided North America, we tend to cling to our English ancestry, the Northeast, Virginia and the South, the original 13. If one takes a look at how small an area that encompasses maybe they can see that the vast majority of our country is made up of many non-whites, not forgetting Native Americans. Yet some Whites persist in believing it is they who made America great. How delusional can one be? Thus, they vote for Trump.
DD
Manhattan
It is hard for many not all Whites to assume like Churchill that the English-speaking White Race was superior to all others. They would point to the advances of European nations while the African and to lesser extent the Asian continents seemed to fall behind in what we deemed important. The Industrial Revolution, the advancement of the mass production, consumptive consumerism, these were all things to value. What we loss in the basic tenets of living The Good Life we gained in baubles. bangles and beads. We measured our wealth by our possessions, how much, how big. Nations who fell behind did so because they were not as clever, as astute, as smart as we. It inherently had to be something to do with White superiority, no?
Well no. Though most Americans know our nation is an amalgam of English, Dutch, French and Spanish Empires who conquered and divided North America, we tend to cling to our English ancestry, the Northeast, Virginia and the South, the original 13. If one takes a look at how small an area that encompasses maybe they can see that the vast majority of our country is made up of many non-whites, not forgetting Native Americans. Yet some Whites persist in believing it is they who made America great. How delusional can one be? Thus, they vote for Trump.
DD
Manhattan
52
Wow, this comment makes absolutely no sense. So much so, that it's perplexing.
5
@bingham
I am not quite certain that the "white English spaking race is Superior", as you say.
But now that you've brought that point up-- why not delve into the reasons why jetliners aren't designed and manufactured in Zimbabwe, or how many Native American skyscrapers there are.
Here's a hint:
It starts with 'Colonialism" ... You can go on from there.
I am not quite certain that the "white English spaking race is Superior", as you say.
But now that you've brought that point up-- why not delve into the reasons why jetliners aren't designed and manufactured in Zimbabwe, or how many Native American skyscrapers there are.
Here's a hint:
It starts with 'Colonialism" ... You can go on from there.
1
I get it that blacks face subtle discrimination, just as those who are short, fat or ugly do. (I wonder how the crosswalk test would have turned out with two groups of women - one group overweight and unattractive and the other very good looking?)
I also think someone should send people to job interviews dressed differently. I suspect those who dressed up for an interview would be treated better than those who did not, and that the difference would be greater than that of race.
As for public education, here in Central Ohio the predominantly black Columbus City Schools spend as much or more than the suburban districts even after adjusting for the costs unique to Columbus - ESL classes, higher numbers of special needs students, etc. The difference is the students and their parents, not the quality of the facilities or the teachers.
So if racial discrimination were totally eliminated in the US, the plight of the black underclass would hardly change.
I also think someone should send people to job interviews dressed differently. I suspect those who dressed up for an interview would be treated better than those who did not, and that the difference would be greater than that of race.
As for public education, here in Central Ohio the predominantly black Columbus City Schools spend as much or more than the suburban districts even after adjusting for the costs unique to Columbus - ESL classes, higher numbers of special needs students, etc. The difference is the students and their parents, not the quality of the facilities or the teachers.
So if racial discrimination were totally eliminated in the US, the plight of the black underclass would hardly change.
100
Jim Waddell writes, "So if racial discrimination were totally eliminated in the US, the plight of the black underclass would hardly change."
Let's try it, Mr. Waddell! Let's try it!
Let's try it, Mr. Waddell! Let's try it!
13
Here in NJ, special state funding allows inner-city schools to spend as much per pupil as the most affluent suburbs, yet they still have the lowest test scores and graduation rates in the state. As the saying goes: "you can lead a horse to water (education) but you can not make it drink (learn) if it does not want to". As long as blacks value sports and hip-hop music more than education they will have to bear the consequences.
13
So Charles are you discounting other kinds of problems poor inner city children may face? As a white 60ish woman today I can tell you it isn't easy to live what many of them deal with. Here's my childhood experience: alcoholic-domestic abuser violent dad, after divorce, being raised by single parent mentally ill-physically sick mom, one of 6 children, sometimes not enough food in the house, etc. Kids today are our future and deserve our investment. A neighborhood of caring adults and great schools was my ticket to safety.
5
I wonder how many readers of this column are surprised at Kristof’s statistics or would raise an eyebrow at his basic premise that America remains pervasively racist. The same goes for parts 1-6. This probably isn’t his neediest audience.
The problem is that the premise doesn’t underpin any useful conclusion. Or is that conclusion that we should be less racist? That’s an eye-opener. Or could it be that we shouldn’t let Trump supporters vote? THAT would be an interesting Voter-ID law to attempt.
There are a lot of us who happen to be white who acknowledge the dark corners of our culture and join with others who aren’t white to seek solutions that have strategic promise of addressing and mitigating racism. I write frequently in this forum about the need to make the sacrifices necessary as a society to dramatically improve the quality and effectiveness of public education in our most impoverished communities, which are disproportionately black and Hispanic.
Some of the racism that exists in Trump’s working-class white supporters exists because they have opposed economic interests – they vie for the same jobs as blacks when decades ago they did not. If we educate ALL our people so that we have blacks competing for more office manager jobs in the suburbs, we’ll see more racism among our upper-middle-classes. If they more aggressively compete for tenured Ivy League positions, we might even see a more intense hint of racism in THOSE worthies.
Nick, for heaven’s sake, we get it.
The problem is that the premise doesn’t underpin any useful conclusion. Or is that conclusion that we should be less racist? That’s an eye-opener. Or could it be that we shouldn’t let Trump supporters vote? THAT would be an interesting Voter-ID law to attempt.
There are a lot of us who happen to be white who acknowledge the dark corners of our culture and join with others who aren’t white to seek solutions that have strategic promise of addressing and mitigating racism. I write frequently in this forum about the need to make the sacrifices necessary as a society to dramatically improve the quality and effectiveness of public education in our most impoverished communities, which are disproportionately black and Hispanic.
Some of the racism that exists in Trump’s working-class white supporters exists because they have opposed economic interests – they vie for the same jobs as blacks when decades ago they did not. If we educate ALL our people so that we have blacks competing for more office manager jobs in the suburbs, we’ll see more racism among our upper-middle-classes. If they more aggressively compete for tenured Ivy League positions, we might even see a more intense hint of racism in THOSE worthies.
Nick, for heaven’s sake, we get it.
14
Reply to Richard Luettgen,
It is a surmise, only, that most of Trumps supporters are racist. I suspect that ordinarily they are neither more nor less racist than most Americans, including our high-minded liberals.
Many of these white supporters have lost their jobs, or fear losing them. Out of work and out of hope, their lives and communities shattered, and abandoned by Democrats and Republicans, alike, they had nowhere else to turn, so they've turned to opiates and Trump.
That doesn't make them all racist. It makes them very human. We need to think about this differently. It is a great human tragedy:
http://tinyurl.com/ogfgfmd
http://tinyurl.com/nrf6d5x http://tinyurl.com/oeudqug http://tinyurl.com/jt65v5m http://tinyurl.com/hg5ykpy
It is a surmise, only, that most of Trumps supporters are racist. I suspect that ordinarily they are neither more nor less racist than most Americans, including our high-minded liberals.
Many of these white supporters have lost their jobs, or fear losing them. Out of work and out of hope, their lives and communities shattered, and abandoned by Democrats and Republicans, alike, they had nowhere else to turn, so they've turned to opiates and Trump.
That doesn't make them all racist. It makes them very human. We need to think about this differently. It is a great human tragedy:
http://tinyurl.com/ogfgfmd
http://tinyurl.com/nrf6d5x http://tinyurl.com/oeudqug http://tinyurl.com/jt65v5m http://tinyurl.com/hg5ykpy
34
Ron, we aren't racist. We just don't care. We're sick of the whole discussion and the more you push the less we'll care.
9
Have you read these comments? No, all of us don't.
2
To MM: I'm fairly certain that Social Darwinism went out at the turn of the 19th century and that any study such as the one you refer to has inherent bias' built in.
As for the rest: I recommend, Hillbilly Elegy and, White Trash: The 400-Year Untold History of Class in America ...The latter is a real eyeopener. Racism is endemic to this USA. It is part of what makes American what it is. And so is class hierarchy which is why the Trump whites, for lack of a better name, are so angry in my opinion. They feel victimized by the government, racial quotas, immigrants, and blame them for all of their woes. Guess what? The same thing existed in the "good old days."
As for the rest: I recommend, Hillbilly Elegy and, White Trash: The 400-Year Untold History of Class in America ...The latter is a real eyeopener. Racism is endemic to this USA. It is part of what makes American what it is. And so is class hierarchy which is why the Trump whites, for lack of a better name, are so angry in my opinion. They feel victimized by the government, racial quotas, immigrants, and blame them for all of their woes. Guess what? The same thing existed in the "good old days."
42
The exception today is that we have corporate welfare cheats--by way of billion-dollar companies like Apple, GE, Cisco, and others who have off-shored jobs and profits and pay 5% or less in corporate taxes. The big Pharma and medical manufactures are also so anointed. With today's paper revealing Trump likely has paid "0" taxes year after year -- we see the cost of the system that has gamed millions out of their livelihoods and undermined the stability of the middle class and our tax system. Blaming the "other" may be convenient ugliness trumpeted by Trump and his Republican abettors. But racism and classicism in all shades won't last. The truth will "out" these miscreants.
3
Is there a place where racism - particularly when defined as unconscious bias, decreased opportunities, and microaggressions - is not endemic?
1
I don't support Trump, and I agree that race discrimination has not vanished from our society. The question is what if anything we can do about this, in particular through the law. Some on the left, including Justice Ginsburg, seem to think that in allocating valuable public benefits like jobs, contracts, and university seats, government is entitled to discriminate against some individuals based on race - at least until we all agree that race discrimination has vanished from the earth. Only once we no longer need it, that is, can we finally enforce the civil rights laws' command of nondiscrimination against any person. This shell game weakens the left's credibility on this issue.
19
I am a white woman from Alabama now living in Florida and I live in a bi-racial household. My daughter's fiance is African American. My grandson's father is African American. We live in harmony. I am more than aware of the inequities experienced by and dangers facing African Americans. I have noted them first hand. I don't expect, as a white woman. that I totally get it even now. But I am trying.
251
God bless you Ms. Mitchell.
If we could build a bridge between the races of humanity,
if we could find within our hearts to share our blessings equally,
we could build a bridge of honor. We could build a bridge of trust.
We could build a bridge much like the bridge we build between you and me.
If we could build a bridge between the races of humanity,
if we could find within our hearts to share our blessings equally,
we could build a bridge of honor. We could build a bridge of trust.
We could build a bridge much like the bridge we build between you and me.
2
This ^^^ a thousand times. Live with and among each other. That is the ONLY way to learn about each other. STOP being afraid, just do it.
1
Thanks for the example Ms Mitchell ! Racism tinges so many aspects of our society that few of us can really be free from its influence on our own feelings and actions. Without self-flagellation, she shows us that only contact and empathy can lead the way to a saner society.
2
I fear that Trump has reawakened and legitimized the idea of white supremacy in the hearts and minds of many. As a child takes clues from a parent, so do many of his ardent followers absorb his not too subtle suggestions. Decades of affirmative action will be undone by a Trump presidency.
167
He hasn't reawakened anything. White supremacy has always been alive and well as a doctrine in the United States. What Mr. Trump has done is to legitimize racism and make it politically correct to espouse it.
1
Trump's ability to attract followers rests strongly on his elevating racism to what they consider an acceptable place in society. They don't have to hide it any more, or watch where and to whom they express racist beliefs. The Republican candidate for the presidency says it's not only fine, it's patriotic.
270
when I was a civil rights worker in 1965, the issue for black citizens was to get the vote, voting rights. today the most prominent issue is "Black Lives Matter". The fact that there is a movement that has to say that blacks have a right to "matter", to be included, to be cared about, even to avoid being killed is a terrible situation for our country. these are people who were dragged to this place from Africa to work for free to give labor to the South, while the North had to pay immigrants to work. hundreds of years later, blacks must "hope" that their rights are respected, a shameful situation for "the land of the free". I can't imagine how this isn't obvious to whites who have had privileges which blacks have had to struggle for out of terrible initial conditions.
308
Poor me,most of the blacks killing blacks in Chicago were not forced to live in the U.S.,they were born here.Stop always blaming others for problems you created.When slavery ended,dependency began. Go to school,get a job and move on,Why don't we see the problems blacks have in the Asian,Latino,Muslim,Irish,German,etc. Communities
6
One small correction: these are NOT "people who were dragged to this place from Africa . . ." Some of "these people" may be descended from those people, but most have been Americans for several generations. Much like the Chinese descendants of those used as slaves to build the railroads, but with substantially different outcomes.
2
Whites and other ethnic groups in this country also suffer problems that must be overcome. Why is it that their problems are ignored in favor of blacks?
Gender bias, I submit, is equally pervasive in our society. Much of what Kristof writes about Blacks, he could also write about women.
In both cases, the issue is male dominance. In America, we have to talk about white, male dominance.
It's an issue of power, an age-old, inherited instinct that may have helped ragged bands of early humans survive in a hostile world, but that is at odds with modern, global civilization.
No one is exempt from this instinctual white male claim on power, including liberals, who like to think of themselves as morally virtuous.
The media bias against Hillary is a prominent example. Yes, there has been media bias against male presidential candiates in the past, but none of them has been subject to the dogged, decades-long hostility that she has experienced.
I do sense that some young white men have become more open and sensitive to this issue. That is good news. Only if we confront this instinctual white, male bias, can we begin to address the twin evils of racism and sexism.
In both cases, the issue is male dominance. In America, we have to talk about white, male dominance.
It's an issue of power, an age-old, inherited instinct that may have helped ragged bands of early humans survive in a hostile world, but that is at odds with modern, global civilization.
No one is exempt from this instinctual white male claim on power, including liberals, who like to think of themselves as morally virtuous.
The media bias against Hillary is a prominent example. Yes, there has been media bias against male presidential candiates in the past, but none of them has been subject to the dogged, decades-long hostility that she has experienced.
I do sense that some young white men have become more open and sensitive to this issue. That is good news. Only if we confront this instinctual white, male bias, can we begin to address the twin evils of racism and sexism.
397
As a white female, thank-you for writing exactly what I was thinking.
Due to SoCal's outrageous cost of housing, we moved into a town where 95% of the residents are of color or are recent immigrants. The people are nice.
However, those who provide city services are not. The police (who live elsewhere) routinely break the law and abuse the populace. One morning, we opened the door to five of them pointing guns at us and had our house searched without a warrant. I was dragged and handcuffed in our front yard. No one was arrested and we had committed no crime. Were we saved because our skin color was light?
Due to SoCal's outrageous cost of housing, we moved into a town where 95% of the residents are of color or are recent immigrants. The people are nice.
However, those who provide city services are not. The police (who live elsewhere) routinely break the law and abuse the populace. One morning, we opened the door to five of them pointing guns at us and had our house searched without a warrant. I was dragged and handcuffed in our front yard. No one was arrested and we had committed no crime. Were we saved because our skin color was light?
192
lechrist: The Occupying Army strikes again! I am sorry for you and sorry our "leaders" think it's necessary.
9
QUOTE: "I do sense that some young white men have become more open and sensitive to this issue."
This Old White Man may have some perspective on how people become "open and sensitive to this issue". And I think it is large related to human experience. Those whites who have never had a personal relationship with a black person often do not, as the saying goes, "Just Get It".
I was born in 1940 in New Haven, Connecticut. My father was a broadcast engineer and he took me along to set up amplifiers and microphones for radio broadcasts at Yale Bowl, news interviews and Jazz clubs along the Connecticut shoreline in the early 50's. . I met black performers as I helped set up the broadcasts. I had no idea of who these people were. But Errol Garner told me it was cool I knew how to set up a microphone for a grand piano. He played weirdly though, making noises and sliding off his chair to play on his knees. Lionel Hampton let me play with the belts and pulley that ran the parts in his vibraphone. It was 15 years later that I realized that people had gone out of their way to encourage me.
55 years later my wife got a job to design a high school library in Africa. The school had kids from 28 African nations, many of whom had fled violence as the African Development Bank relocated to Tunis. As a photographer I learned that there were dozens of colors of Black people, with very different physical and facial appearances. And they were interesting and smart and all different.
This Old White Man may have some perspective on how people become "open and sensitive to this issue". And I think it is large related to human experience. Those whites who have never had a personal relationship with a black person often do not, as the saying goes, "Just Get It".
I was born in 1940 in New Haven, Connecticut. My father was a broadcast engineer and he took me along to set up amplifiers and microphones for radio broadcasts at Yale Bowl, news interviews and Jazz clubs along the Connecticut shoreline in the early 50's. . I met black performers as I helped set up the broadcasts. I had no idea of who these people were. But Errol Garner told me it was cool I knew how to set up a microphone for a grand piano. He played weirdly though, making noises and sliding off his chair to play on his knees. Lionel Hampton let me play with the belts and pulley that ran the parts in his vibraphone. It was 15 years later that I realized that people had gone out of their way to encourage me.
55 years later my wife got a job to design a high school library in Africa. The school had kids from 28 African nations, many of whom had fled violence as the African Development Bank relocated to Tunis. As a photographer I learned that there were dozens of colors of Black people, with very different physical and facial appearances. And they were interesting and smart and all different.
13
Very tired of the blacks rioting when it is them who are wrong because they committed crimes and they blame the authorities instead of looking in the mirror. Simple.