The NYT is agitating for war again. Over and over and over. This is not normal behavior.
73
Reading some of these comments, I can't help wondering what Vlad pays these days. You guys get good benefits? Retirement?
You should unionize.
You should unionize.
43
But what ever happened to Hillary's much touted Russian Re-Set Button ?
10
Enough already with your bias!
29
How ironic that the newspaper who shamelessly promoted US military interventions in Libya, Syria, and Iraq that have led to destruction of those countries are now demanding that Putin stop.
I prefer the NY Times be more even handed. You cannot promote US military intervention while attacking Russian intervention because it runs counter to US interests.
Our military interventions have wrecked the Arab world in ways not seen since the French/British takeover after WW1.
I prefer the NY Times be more even handed. You cannot promote US military intervention while attacking Russian intervention because it runs counter to US interests.
Our military interventions have wrecked the Arab world in ways not seen since the French/British takeover after WW1.
88
Russian nukes make all U.S. Threats meaningless empty rhetoric. Imcludimg when the Russians eventually reclaim all of the Ukraine, Poland.
10
It's outstanding how much hypocrisy I see in these last year from democrats. I always considered liberals peace and stability loving folks, not like those bloody republicans who got the US into Iraq and Afghanistan. When Obama was elected everybody was saying that the US's days of overseas interventions and pre-emptive wars are over. Everybody was cheering the fact that finally the US troops can return home. My boy, we have been proved wrong. My sudden realization, is that liberal and humanitarian democrats can be as much as bloodthirsty as the hardest republican neocons. I was hating W.Bush before for his war in Iraq and Afghanistan. But then I see Obama interventions in Lybia and Syria, and I was like…wait wait, at least W.Bush had the greatest excuse of all times for his wars, 9/11. I am actually starting to believe that W.Bush was quite sincere in his fight against terrorism. Stupid, but sincere. But…what excuses Obama and democrats in general have for their international campaigns. And why are we suddenly on the brink of WW3 if liberals and great humanists democrats are in power ? Why does NY Times kinda prepares us for the possibility of war with Russia? What the US's reason for war will be this time: Hillary's leaked emails ? Such a contrast, right: 9/11 in 2001 and war over Hillary in 2016. Wow. Is like neocons are not even trying anymore.
64
I visited Russian as a tourist in 2010. We traveled on a river boat from St. Petersburg to Moscow, and I think it safe to say that everyone had a grand time. On the 4th of July the crew decorated the boat in red, white, and blue, and all day we had American foods like hot dogs and apple pie. The captain and crew stood at attention as they raised the American flag and we all sang the national anthem.
All the baby boomers on board marveled at how great it was that the country that was our enemy during the Cold War was now a friend and ally. In Moscow we visited the grave of Nikita Kruschchev and actually waxed nostalgic over his passing, giving him credit, along with President Kennedy, for de-escalating the Cuban Missile Crisis. Our attitude was now everything would be just fine between our too countries.
But one of our very intelligent guides told us not to count on that because she said was Vladimir Putin would be back in power soon, after Dimitri Medvedev's term was up, and that he really was not a believer in democracy in his heart. We didn't want to believe she was right.
But it seems she was.
All the baby boomers on board marveled at how great it was that the country that was our enemy during the Cold War was now a friend and ally. In Moscow we visited the grave of Nikita Kruschchev and actually waxed nostalgic over his passing, giving him credit, along with President Kennedy, for de-escalating the Cuban Missile Crisis. Our attitude was now everything would be just fine between our too countries.
But one of our very intelligent guides told us not to count on that because she said was Vladimir Putin would be back in power soon, after Dimitri Medvedev's term was up, and that he really was not a believer in democracy in his heart. We didn't want to believe she was right.
But it seems she was.
44
Not to provide any support for Mr. Putin's regime, but he did try to work out several cease fires and peace agreements with Secretary Kerry. In the most recent one, as you yourselves reported, the Pentagon and the CIA deliberately sabotaged the cease fire and Secretary Kerry's efforts, by attacking a clearly recognizable Syrian military encampment which killed 65 Syrian soldiers and allowed ISIS to capture the base. A report in the LA Times reported that the Pentagon and the CIA were backing different militant groups in Syria that were fighting each other. There are a number of bad actors in Syria, including Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar, not just Russia. And for ourselves, our government doesn't appear to have its act together, and we don't have any moral high ground to stand on, arming, as we do, over 200 different terrorist groups in the country. Perhaps you should broaden your condemnation and demand that all external forces get out of Syria and stop protracting the killing of innocents there.
54
Oh man, wouldn't it be great if we spent huge sums of money we don't have to "help" middle easterners, stand up to Russia, and then start another Cold War featuring the threat of nuclear annihilation?
Yeah let's show big bad Putin who the real tough guys are!
Yeah let's show big bad Putin who the real tough guys are!
36
Occupying another people's land is also against common human decency.
22
Vladimir Putin is a strong leader who loves his country and his people. You would be lucky in the United States to have such a bold and decisive leader.
39
Who knows what this minor league dictator will do once he has a president Trump in his pocket.
32
Our best deployed weapon against Russia is low oil prices. Our most important ally for maintaining low oil prices is Saudi Arabia. Hence, Congress, in its wisdom, tries to undermine our relationship with Saudi Arabia. Good work!
28
Look how close they put their country to our military bases.
72
Strangely enough the media's standard "both sides do it" mantra does not seem to apply in this case. I wonder why?
22
Putin is former KGB - is this news to anyone? This is why the bromance of Trump is so different.
15
Putin told Trump that he likes him. So we must ignore all of the terrible accusations in this article.
9
Russia's under Putin in Syria and Ukraine has behaved as a rogue state. However, the US has also behaved as a rogue by launching a war against Iraq, and helping Saudi Arabia in its unlawful war in Yemen. The Saudis have been destroying schools, hospitals, civilian areas and World Heritage sites innYemen with total impunity and hardly any coverage by the press. The US has not been leading by example in the Middle East.
25
Little Putin is a war criminal. The downing of the Malaysian airliner, is invasion of Crimea, the razing of Aleppo and the murder of thousands of children evoke the worst of tyrants; Stalin would be proud of this little man with a Napoleonic complex. His Mutt and Jeff show with Assad is a disgrace and I hope the International Court of Justice is drawing up its list.
To Russia I say, "beware of little men in high heels." Many times they lead to ruin and the destruction of the country.
To Russia I say, "beware of little men in high heels." Many times they lead to ruin and the destruction of the country.
31
If Trump were to read a newspaper ( which is highly doubtful) I presume he would be taking notes on this article about how to rule the US just like his idol Putin has ruled Russia- same KGB tactics.
14
Reading an anonymous editorial about the lawlessness of Russia from an American propaganda organization that has advocated for war crimes in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, and Palestine is alarming. The purveyers of American attitudes are the ones who should be put on trial, and severely punished
51
This is laughable. Another exercise in self-righteous, hypocritical huff-puffery on behalf of a country whose history is one continuous course of international outlawry. Really. What does the Editorial Board think "Manifest Destiny" was about? The Spanish American War? Endless interventions, invasions, subversions, assassinations and induced ethnic cleansing in Ibero-America? What does the Editorial Board think "full spectrum unilateralism" -- now rebranded as "humanitarian military intervention" -- is about? Whose foreign policy establishment made it a goal to "roll back" Russia past the Urals -- "extend the eastern security perimeter" as the neocons called it? The Time's narrative on the Ukraine is an exercise in falsehoods and fantasies.
No this is not laughable. It is a pathetic "vorspiel" to what Hillary Clinton's foreign policy will consist in.
Go ahead. Censor this. Keep your readers in the dark. You have no credibility with anyone under 30 or under 106K a year.
No this is not laughable. It is a pathetic "vorspiel" to what Hillary Clinton's foreign policy will consist in.
Go ahead. Censor this. Keep your readers in the dark. You have no credibility with anyone under 30 or under 106K a year.
62
Look who's talking! the US has absolutely no lesson to give to anyone in terms of respecting international laws. The NYT seems to forget quite often the countries that they have destroyed! At least Russia has the OK from the official Syrian Gov. But the main concern of the west is that Russia and the Syrian forces are efficient in their efforts in destroying the western and Arab backed terrorists that are fighting there.
45
Trump and Putin - BFF.
Let's not forget Trump also expressed admiration for Kim Jong-Un, who is busy aiming nuclear weapons at the west coast of the United States.
Trump's ignorance is dangerous to America.
Let's not forget Trump also expressed admiration for Kim Jong-Un, who is busy aiming nuclear weapons at the west coast of the United States.
Trump's ignorance is dangerous to America.
12
The Syrian-war show the world how brutaly and bad the United Nations Security Council works and how antiquated it is. Its like an old relic from an old time, and it is, from the World War 2 and from the cold war. Now its time too change United Nations Security Council too our time, in a more democratic way and without any Veto for anyone! Thats the right way too go otherwise we can shutdown UN Security Council!
2
The Europeans should care about the destruction of Syria more than we do. It is time for NATO to take out or ground the Syrian air force, and establish a no fly zone, over Aleppo and the north, over which they fight to the death the Russian air forces that are bombing civilian targets. As we learned in WW II, war is the sometimes the only remedy against the atrocities of fascism. NATO was formed, to protect Europe and contain Russia. Russia's current atrocities will not stop without containment.
11
Yes, they are international criminals. What's more, they are exporting their criminal representatives, in the form of spies, thugs, and moles, to the west. They are infiltrating our schools, banks and churches. They are recruiting Americans to their ranks by preying on their fears and intimidating them when necessary. The Obama administration, including the fbi and cia, know this and turn a blind eye. Congress does nothing, as usual. Democracy is dead, already and Americans, so fond of appearances and optics, must be satisfied with only its empty shell.
5
I'll give us (The US) credit, we've got some balls. Not many people could pull off criticizing Russia in Syria after killing hundreds of thousands of civilians in Iraq with a straight face. The truth is, we are the invading power in Syria, we have no mandate to be there from the international community. Barely a week ago, we killed 80 uniformed n't soldiers of a country we are even officially at war with, inside their own borders, in the middle of a cease fire we brokered. I don't how anybody with half a brain can't see this as the propaganda it is. Pravda would be proud of what the NY times as become, the mouthpiece of a corrupt elite.
32
In the eight years of Obama's presidency the United States has ceded its role as a counterweight to Putin's Soviet-Union-style aggression.
It will take years of careful, forceful diplomacy to restore our nation's credibility and moral authority.
Hillary Clinton has demonstrated her inability to lead our nation to a safer place in the world.
Donald Trump has shown little capability to do much more than bluster.
Thank you, Barack Obama, for leaving our nation in a worse place than when you took office. You should be ashamed of your legacy.
It will take years of careful, forceful diplomacy to restore our nation's credibility and moral authority.
Hillary Clinton has demonstrated her inability to lead our nation to a safer place in the world.
Donald Trump has shown little capability to do much more than bluster.
Thank you, Barack Obama, for leaving our nation in a worse place than when you took office. You should be ashamed of your legacy.
7
This is a Putin without Trump. Imagine how much more aggressive and annexation-prone, Putin would become with an amenable President Trump? They’d probably agree to carve up Eastern Europe and the Middle East to their mutual satisfaction. Putin would be happy to regain some of the glory of the old Soviet Union and Trump could claim to bring world peace without firing a shot even though he’d be decimating NATO in the process? And, if Japan and South Korea want nukes, so be it! Putin might simply be an outlaw today, but with a President Trump, he’d be much, much worse. Make the Soviet Union whole again!
5
You can see some of the work of Putin right here in the comments section. Also the very sad work of people who think the must stand up for Trump by standing up for the thug and criminal Putin.
Putin uses paid posters with fake locations to prevent honest communication as to spread his "the US is just the same" propaganda theme.
the NYTimes screen posts and should work to climate Putinist Propaganda from it's web site. I recognize part of the issue can be clever propaganda from honest opinion but the NYT must try. There is far too much propaganda here including in the like.
If the Times cannot do better, they would be better off not opening comments on opinion pieces or articles likely to engage Putin propaganda machine.
Putin uses paid posters with fake locations to prevent honest communication as to spread his "the US is just the same" propaganda theme.
the NYTimes screen posts and should work to climate Putinist Propaganda from it's web site. I recognize part of the issue can be clever propaganda from honest opinion but the NYT must try. There is far too much propaganda here including in the like.
If the Times cannot do better, they would be better off not opening comments on opinion pieces or articles likely to engage Putin propaganda machine.
11
The Times Editorial Board appears to be blaming the wrong guy.
Russia is not China, and Russians can vote. Like Hugo Chavez of Venezuela, Vladimir Putin was elected by Russian citizens. They love him so much that put him in position for the third time with overwhelming votes. If Putin has been delivering an outlaw state, it is because Russians overwhelmingly like an outlaw state.
The same goes with the U.S. - if, a big if at this point, Donald were elected, we Americans as a whole are to be blamed for electing him.
Russia is not China, and Russians can vote. Like Hugo Chavez of Venezuela, Vladimir Putin was elected by Russian citizens. They love him so much that put him in position for the third time with overwhelming votes. If Putin has been delivering an outlaw state, it is because Russians overwhelmingly like an outlaw state.
The same goes with the U.S. - if, a big if at this point, Donald were elected, we Americans as a whole are to be blamed for electing him.
5
Pretty easy to get elected when people associated with the opposition and press routinely wind up dead.
18
Almost as bad as our own outlaw state.
From organized coups, backed dictatorships, invasions, massive bombing campaigns (shock & awe ring a bell) to drug funded black ops in every corner or the globe, we have little room for criticism.
From organized coups, backed dictatorships, invasions, massive bombing campaigns (shock & awe ring a bell) to drug funded black ops in every corner or the globe, we have little room for criticism.
19
I am wondering if his buddy, the nutcase the GOP selected to run for the office that has control of the nuclear button, is thinking you are all wrong, especially after the Times claims that Donald J. Trump isn't fit to be president. This is undoubtedly the Putin Trump loves so much.
3
You need more sophisticated editorial writers (and from some of the responses, readers as well). Putin hasn't done anything that is not SOP for US foreign and military policy. The only difference is that he has been more successful.
19
It is time to dismantle the UN Security Council. There are just too members who have gone rogue, not only Russia. Each member Nation have gone rogue at different points in time including the US.
1
The kindergarten logic where readers invalidate the thrust of the editorial by listing the sins of the US is ludicrous. Putin is the most dangerous national leader on the planet. Not a bogy man being used to move you. It seems many of you missed the recent seizure of another countries land and the impotence of the West to defend it. And now we watch Russia bomb defenseless civilians every night on the News Hour, or maybe you do not. I just don't seem to be able to remember when we were bombing densely populated civilian neighborhoods and starving large cities. You will have to update me. Talk about false equivalence.
Being so conflict avoidant you can't perceive the undeniable or think is not the answer.
Being so conflict avoidant you can't perceive the undeniable or think is not the answer.
14
I wish I could read Russian.
I'll bet Pravda was publishing the same stuff about the United States of America when it invaded a sovereign nation in 2003.
I'll bet Pravda was publishing the same stuff about the United States of America when it was droning people (some of them American citizens, women and children) in select sovereign countries.
I'll bet Pravda was publishing the same stuff when the United States of America was further destabilizing the Middle East during and after the Arab Spring.
One nation's pravda is another nation's propaganda. Real hard to tell the difference without a translator.
I'll bet Pravda was publishing the same stuff about the United States of America when it invaded a sovereign nation in 2003.
I'll bet Pravda was publishing the same stuff about the United States of America when it was droning people (some of them American citizens, women and children) in select sovereign countries.
I'll bet Pravda was publishing the same stuff when the United States of America was further destabilizing the Middle East during and after the Arab Spring.
One nation's pravda is another nation's propaganda. Real hard to tell the difference without a translator.
33
Every article at the NY Times about Putin should come with a disclaimer about the people employed by the Russian state - the so called "Putinbots" - whose sole job is to defend the actions of Putin in the news media with outright lies, half-truths, and false equivalencies. The latter strategy is particularly popular, as evidenced by the number of posts reminding us that the United States has made mistakes in the past on certain occasions.
And if you've ever wondered who is giving these posts the "thumbs up"...my theory is that they work in teams, up voting each other's posts. Or it's possible it's just one or two posters using multiple accounts, giving each of his posts a recommend. In the words of Trump: Sad.
And if you've ever wondered who is giving these posts the "thumbs up"...my theory is that they work in teams, up voting each other's posts. Or it's possible it's just one or two posters using multiple accounts, giving each of his posts a recommend. In the words of Trump: Sad.
19
I simply do not understand the UN -- how is it that Russia can retain its powerful, veto-holding seat on the Security Council while committing these atrocities?
It is obviously a flaw in the design of the UN, and I believe it undermines its legitimacy and ultimately, prospects for world peace.
It is obviously a flaw in the design of the UN, and I believe it undermines its legitimacy and ultimately, prospects for world peace.
9
We can flatten any country but American restraint against killing civilians keeps us from doing it, which makes us look weak in most people's eyes. We're not perfect, but this one thing that we have that Russia doesn't, a conscience - and that's President Obama's "fault."
4
With evidence that Russia hacked into the DNC and the obvious timing of the information drop to disrupt our democratic process, it is clear Putin is seeking to manipulate the current administration, concerned with its legacy and handing the baton to Clinton. Putin knows Obama's hands are tied, that he won't end his presidency by getting the US further embroiled in Syria. It makes the DNC hack all the more terrifying because he attained his goal, manipulating the US democratic process to weaken his opponent. Hollywood in the 80's could not have come up with a more devious Russian plot; using our strength- the electoral process- to cripple any accountability to his and Assad's atrocities.
11
He and President Assad are peas in a pod. War criminals who trade in human misery. The West and the few rationale countries left in the Middle East (Lead by Jordan) are aware of this but are on the sidelines. At a minimum they need to give voice this truth on a stage more relevant than the United Nations.
9
his plan to recapture the territories in eastern Europe lost with the dissolution of the soviet union is proceeding apace. he has challenged NATO militarily in the Crimea and in eastern Ukraine with out any opposition (if you think he cares about sanctions you are on drugs). his pivot to Syria has tested the willing ness of the US to challenge him and he as gotten a green light from us to commit atrocities amounting to war crimes. time is running out. if we do not oppose him in Syria militarily then he will be emboldened to proceed with his plans to retake the former soviet satellite countries. if trump is elected then all the gains made in Europe since the end of WW2 are at risk. we can still stop him in Syria if we take military action to oust Assad. if we have to militarily oppose him better that it takes place in Syria than I Europe or not at all.
3
The West has spared Russia back in 1991 and did not finish dismantling of Soviet Union, letting them to grow up muscles again. Well, the Bear returned as a troublemaker for its neighbors and whole world. This mistake of Western civilization must not be repeated in the future. By no means, at any price.
6
Other than Putin's role in massacring civilians, his most egregious move on his path to becoming the new, hi-tech Tsar of an expanding Russia -- but not mentioned in this editorial -- is flattering and manipulating Trump into copying the fascism behind all these "outlaw" acts. Putin is no madman but rather a follower of the monarchist/fascist philosopher I. Ilyin, who saw the modern corporation as the best model for an undemocratic, authoritarian state. Putin's mind follows Ilyin and Trump's corporate ego follows Putin...even over the edge -- sympathizing with the Russian president on hacking and possibly disrupting our elections, without which there will be no American democracy, just a fallow field for growing a fascist dictator here in the U.S.
5
There is no getting around it: Putin is an old-style KGB operative, and as dictator of Russia he has killed with impunity and with total disregard for diplomacy and humane values. And he will continue to do so. Diplomacy cards may be few; military cards are many and available. Sooner or later, Putin has to be taken out of the picture permanently.
10
Russians possess a special culture that makes them feel superior when they take advantage of an opponent. This is very transparent to everything that they do; from sports in Olympics, to doing business in Russia, voter rights and geopolitics. I am from Finland who got attacked by Russia in the beginning of WW2, lost part of the land and had to pay for Russian's suffering in the Finnish front. Only thing that is constant with Russia - they will always try to take what is yours with any imaginable ways. Of course there are people in Russia who do not strictly fall into unreliable category, but by in large, get your money upfront, avoid joint ventures and establish deterrents that work when you have to defend yourself.
8
Russians? Violate common human decency?
You had a despotic Kindgom / Empire that didn't come into the 19th century until the 20th century. Then through the next 20/30 brutal years managed to force themselves into the industrialized 20th century by first destroying internally their own people and then, emerging from being destroyed externally by their neighbors, twice within those 20 years. Yes, that has has an impact, but Russians have a long track record of brutality both with foreign and domestic policies. Russians, socially will and do act in ways that other, dare I say civilized people would never consider. And they will justify it, either by claiming they are "Russian" and therefore "different" or "it's the way WE do things" as if they're on a different planet.
You had a despotic Kindgom / Empire that didn't come into the 19th century until the 20th century. Then through the next 20/30 brutal years managed to force themselves into the industrialized 20th century by first destroying internally their own people and then, emerging from being destroyed externally by their neighbors, twice within those 20 years. Yes, that has has an impact, but Russians have a long track record of brutality both with foreign and domestic policies. Russians, socially will and do act in ways that other, dare I say civilized people would never consider. And they will justify it, either by claiming they are "Russian" and therefore "different" or "it's the way WE do things" as if they're on a different planet.
8
One could appreciate that Putin's Russia may find it incredible to deliberate seriously on such accusations. Having lived and worked in Russia on behalf of US and western corporations, including participating in US State Department missions, I can't say that Russia is currently any different than it ever was: it pursues its geopolitical, resource, business and cultural objectives as a sovereign, like any other legitimate one, except that, unlike most other states, it can pursue its objectives, including defense, with a military capability in land, sea, air or space that is effectively unrivalled. It therefore poses a unique challenge to the US vis-à-vis dominance and resource control. The US won't confront Russia directly, so it seeks instead, as Russia certainly can do, to wage a soft war of disinformation, black operations and proxy battle through synthetic entities like "ISIS." And with either US political party and candidate, it will be more of the same; perhaps even a step beyond into direct conflict. A key question is: Why? For whom? Imagine a US-Russia coalition in joint pursuit of productive ends. The NYT would have you believe that Russia is an enemy. Rather, Americans are most fortunate that the Putin administration has been so uniquely mature, disciplined and been patiently enduring the obvious capture of US policy by special interests, some foreign, most psychologically unstable. Go to Russia. Learn the language. Visit the people. See for yourself.
11
Reading through this, I again wonder whether the establishment (political, media, etc) are genuinely baffled by the rise of Trump on the right and the popularity of Bernie on the left, or if it is just pretend surprise. The general tone in the article ignores the serious, serious credibility problems the elite have brought upon themselves. It is hard to sell the line this time, and will only get harder over time, until some measure of respect for the intelligence of the reading public is recognized. I have not seen such irresponsibility in my lifetime as the foreign policy recklessness being pursued. Im not even convinced any longer that the president has full control over the policy machinery. Very, very worrisome.
9
In total and complete agreement with you, o.b. Let's just attribute our extremely messy perpetual war policy, err..."foreign policy," to the corporate-military-industrial complex, to paraphrase the late Dwight D. Eisenhower's well-known prognostication back dating back to 1961.
6
2 weeks ago the United States bombed the Syrian Army, by mistake, killing 62 people and wounding over 100 more. We have no moral high ground here. What are we doing in Syria at all? We have for years been trying to oust Assad and supplied the rebels with weaponry to help them to that end. Now, many rebels have joined ISIS and we are fighting against the same people we helped. At least Putin knows what side he is on! And why is Assad so much worse than the Saudis?
There has been a tidal wave of media criticism of Russia lately. They have been accused several times, most recently by Hillary Clinton during the debate, of hacking into various e-mail hosts etc., though none of this has been proven. This is merely laying the ground work and pre-blaming Russia for the coming Wikileaks drop of missing Clinton E-mails. Russia is Russia and Putin is Putin. They will react to attacks on their allies just as we would. The United States should pick its fights more carefully and know what their goals are before they enter. They should also lead by example. They have violated the No Expansion of NATO agreement that Reagan and Gorbachev agreed to. That is as much a catalyst for the unrest in Ukraine and the Crimea as Putin's egoistic posturing.
There has been a tidal wave of media criticism of Russia lately. They have been accused several times, most recently by Hillary Clinton during the debate, of hacking into various e-mail hosts etc., though none of this has been proven. This is merely laying the ground work and pre-blaming Russia for the coming Wikileaks drop of missing Clinton E-mails. Russia is Russia and Putin is Putin. They will react to attacks on their allies just as we would. The United States should pick its fights more carefully and know what their goals are before they enter. They should also lead by example. They have violated the No Expansion of NATO agreement that Reagan and Gorbachev agreed to. That is as much a catalyst for the unrest in Ukraine and the Crimea as Putin's egoistic posturing.
20
Regan made such a promise? I doubt it, I'll bet it was Bush. Also, it was not part of a treaty. It was at best an intention given at the time. Gorbi's USSR/Yeltsin's Russia is not Putin's Russia. It's a good thing NATO did not go away, and it's a very good thing it expanded East to prevent the Russians from re-establishing their near abroad buffer states.
2
Obama alone is responsible for allowing Putin to rampage virtually unchallenged. Obamas apologist agenda has been a disaster. The times has been a happy cheerleader of this embarrassing show of weakness. America is the only country with the moral authority and military might to safeguard the weak against despots like Putin. We have an obligation to the world community to project our power with confidence and courage. What is happening in Syria is both tragic and embarrassing. All of that blood is on obamas hands.
3
He's a commie, did you expect he would be different just because they changed the name of the government? These are the same Russians who did no end of evil deeds during the cold war as depraved or worse than what they are doing in Aleppo. Leopards do not change their spots.
It seems it was foolish to allow/help them to stand up after the fall of the USSR. The western nations should have taken pains to see to it that the old guard was no longer in power or allowed access to it.
The west should have definitely kept up the drumbeat on investigating the bombings of the Moscow Apartment blocks by Putin who blamed it on Chechen's and started a war with them over it to get into the presidency.
It seems it was foolish to allow/help them to stand up after the fall of the USSR. The western nations should have taken pains to see to it that the old guard was no longer in power or allowed access to it.
The west should have definitely kept up the drumbeat on investigating the bombings of the Moscow Apartment blocks by Putin who blamed it on Chechen's and started a war with them over it to get into the presidency.
3
Putin and Assad have violated all norms of human decency. However,
USA is unable to do any thing because it lost its moral ground
by also bombing hospitals, wedding parties, assisting Saudis in
killing civilians and starving them in Yemen. President Bush and
Cheney never considered the implications of their decision to invade
Iraq and Afghanistan. Now other countries believe that USA's action
has freed them to pursue similar actions. Those countries don't
understand American exceptionalism.
USA is unable to do any thing because it lost its moral ground
by also bombing hospitals, wedding parties, assisting Saudis in
killing civilians and starving them in Yemen. President Bush and
Cheney never considered the implications of their decision to invade
Iraq and Afghanistan. Now other countries believe that USA's action
has freed them to pursue similar actions. Those countries don't
understand American exceptionalism.
5
Based on the US's vast litany of destructive activities around the globe, I fail to see how anyone could fail to draw the same sorts conclusions about us. Given this fact, isn't it the height of hypocrisy to cast aspersions on others, even if they are deserved? Perhaps we need to look in the mirror, adjust our own behavior and lead by example.
15
Are the Editors of the Times trying to get us into another War? The Editors of the Times were great supporters of the Afghan, Iraqi and Libyan wars which have turned out to be the greatest foreign policy blunders in our Nation's history.
Yes, Putin is a dangerous Dictator who can be controlled by crushing sanctions imposed by Europe and the United States but the United States should stay out of the Syrian civil war.
Our interventions in the Middle East are all oil wars and burning oil is a real threat to our civilization not petty dictators or religious extremists.
We should use the Trillions of borrowed dollars we waste on oil wars into combating global warming not fighting over what is left of the oil.
Yes, Putin is a dangerous Dictator who can be controlled by crushing sanctions imposed by Europe and the United States but the United States should stay out of the Syrian civil war.
Our interventions in the Middle East are all oil wars and burning oil is a real threat to our civilization not petty dictators or religious extremists.
We should use the Trillions of borrowed dollars we waste on oil wars into combating global warming not fighting over what is left of the oil.
9
It seems to me that Putin is playing the long game with Syria, with no regard to human suffering. The end goal is de-stabilization of Europe. It's been working already by forcing Syrians to flee, creating mass refugee migration and political upheaval in Europe.
5
what do you expect? old lessons and learned behaviors die hard. Russia is a huge land mass populated by all manners of people. Some highly educated, some democratically inclined, some....not so much. Much like we are experiencing at present. Past glories seem to be fading away, desperation at this loss seems to paint an aggressive face on some who feel this is the only way to placate those who no longer can relive the glories. The older among us have difficulty coming to terms that the world has evolved, and some are prepared ultimately to sacrifice everything to remain self relevant
Sometimes a forest fire is so bad that the only thing to do is let it burn itself out. That's the situation in Syria. I know we're talking about human lives, but until Syrians start to care about the lives of all other Syrians, there is nothing that an outsider can do. It is despicable what Russia is doing, but they are there at the invitation of Bashar al-Assad. There will be no peace in the Middle East until the various factions decide that they have had enough. And that seems a long way off. They've been fighting each other for centuries.
1
It has been obvious to me from the time his opponents started turning up dead or dying that Putin was a cold blooded killer with no regard for any other Russian, or Russian-speaking people, who do not play his tune. And that was before he invaded Georgia and later Ukraine under whatever pretext.
During the Sochi Olympics, I continued to observe his completely humorless, darkened presence seemingly without a bottom.
Now, it appears that the entire state of Russia is running as his personal crime syndicate. Even my love of Russian art and music has been deeply affected by how this man has single-handedly corrupted its spirit with his murderous actions.
During the Sochi Olympics, I continued to observe his completely humorless, darkened presence seemingly without a bottom.
Now, it appears that the entire state of Russia is running as his personal crime syndicate. Even my love of Russian art and music has been deeply affected by how this man has single-handedly corrupted its spirit with his murderous actions.
5
don't be too lurid. yes, putin clearly doesn't mind killing innocent civilians for political gain, as his actions in chechnya, the ukraine and syria demonstrate.
but he is tactically careful to avoid anything that might draw the russian military into sovereignty conflict, aka international war, because that will directly touch oil revenues.
it is doubly ironic that our nobel peace prize president is also the commander of historically unprecedented drone attacks across several foreign nations, and that -- after putin observes our remote control and proxy warfare is working to our advantage -- he is condemned for merely following our example.
but he is tactically careful to avoid anything that might draw the russian military into sovereignty conflict, aka international war, because that will directly touch oil revenues.
it is doubly ironic that our nobel peace prize president is also the commander of historically unprecedented drone attacks across several foreign nations, and that -- after putin observes our remote control and proxy warfare is working to our advantage -- he is condemned for merely following our example.
3
Russia went from a totalitarian regime to an oligarchy to a rogue state.
It happens when you have leaders at the top that think exhibiting pure machismo is the same thing as leading a country. The economics of oil and natural gas will bring Russia to its knees over time. So besides simply arming NATO countries to the teeth, there needs to be a strategic element that could be utilized to mitigate Russian influence via the oil and gas play as well as buying influence in the South Asian bloc before Russia starts to make its presence ubiquitous.
However what is more immediately concerning is the current Clown Prince of American politics professing an admiration for this thug. That simply emboldens this scoundrel even more.
It happens when you have leaders at the top that think exhibiting pure machismo is the same thing as leading a country. The economics of oil and natural gas will bring Russia to its knees over time. So besides simply arming NATO countries to the teeth, there needs to be a strategic element that could be utilized to mitigate Russian influence via the oil and gas play as well as buying influence in the South Asian bloc before Russia starts to make its presence ubiquitous.
However what is more immediately concerning is the current Clown Prince of American politics professing an admiration for this thug. That simply emboldens this scoundrel even more.
5
After years of being marginalized after the Cold War, Russia is flexing its muscle again and looking to become dominant. This is a scary turn of events. But we cannot continue to turn a blind eye to what is obvious aggression.
And while the U.S. has to take the lead in confronting this outlaw behavior, we don't have to do so alone. Since the break up of the U.S.S.R., newly freed countries have formed which can be encouraged to stand up to their former master, along with the existing N.A.T.O alliance - which the Donald dismisses as out of date. Sanctions and world opinion can be remarkably effective, and should be instituted immediately. But whatever we have to do, we have to be resolved to confront Putin and his renegade tactics.
What we cannot afford is to have our next President treat Uncle Vlad as a friend, and that Trump even considers this should disqualify him from the office.
And while the U.S. has to take the lead in confronting this outlaw behavior, we don't have to do so alone. Since the break up of the U.S.S.R., newly freed countries have formed which can be encouraged to stand up to their former master, along with the existing N.A.T.O alliance - which the Donald dismisses as out of date. Sanctions and world opinion can be remarkably effective, and should be instituted immediately. But whatever we have to do, we have to be resolved to confront Putin and his renegade tactics.
What we cannot afford is to have our next President treat Uncle Vlad as a friend, and that Trump even considers this should disqualify him from the office.
2
"Mr. Putin fancies himself a man on a mission to restore Russia to greatness." The West needs to pull back the focus a bit and realize that it is not just Russia that aspires to former greatness, but the entire East - Russia, China, Iran, and Turkey. There is a coalition forming that has differing ideas about human rights and economics. We are witnessing a fracturing of the world and the Middle East is the fault line. This is a primal urge for respect and power fueled by centuries of colonialism. Any naivety by the West that they can "reason" a way out will be ruthlessly exploited. The West has no leverage, as the article points out, and has few options other than World War. It is hubris to think Putin acts alone and is not fully supported by former members of the great Mongolian Empire. I am sure the new Khans will make Genghis proud. Europe should be aware that again the "barbarians" are at their gates.
4
I recently saw an interview video clip of Mr Putin in which he clearly stated that he had no interest in friendship with the US. His job, he says, is to be the leader of his country. Given the abysmal history of unskilled American international relations in the last few decades the opportunities for expanding his country's international standing by intervening in foreign affairs and proxy wars is logical if not obvious.
He is fabulously wealthy by many billions, built a macho and energetic public persona, invested in rebuilding a powerful military and has little internal opposition.
Any international dispute, election, treaty, or event is now an opportunity for him to tinker with the narrative of Russia as a world player and his own personal glorification.
He is fabulously wealthy by many billions, built a macho and energetic public persona, invested in rebuilding a powerful military and has little internal opposition.
Any international dispute, election, treaty, or event is now an opportunity for him to tinker with the narrative of Russia as a world player and his own personal glorification.
5
Sad as it is to say, there is no viable military option for the U.S. or other western powers in Syria. The rebel forces are infected with jihadist elements at all levels. Any arms given to the rebels could very likely be turned against us or our allies. Russia and Assad have already won in Syria. They will have to deal with the consequences of their victory for decades to come. There is, however, a way to pressure the Russians on their own borders and in their own pocketbooks. The United States should become, once again, the arsenal of democracy. We should lend all possible aid to the government of Ukraine and begin rebuilding our military presence in Europe. Further sanctions are an moral necessity. Both morality and self interest compel these actions. The great lesson of the 20th Century is that a failure to confront barbarism and international aggression, only leads to greater catastrophes.
7
Russia has, indeed, become an outlaw state, as you correctly declare. A predator state. Thank you for this editorial, New York Times. The level of atrocities, and the bone-chilling, mind-numbing excess of it all must shake every intelligent person into a wakeful vigilance. The Russians are using a continuous barrage of Doomsday weapons against a besieged urban population lacking water, food and medicines -- a civilian population that does not pose any kind of threat to anyone. So the only possible rationale for these attacks has to be Brutality for its own sake, Cruelty and Viciousness for the sake of egregious public displays of Cruelty and Viciousness. Some reports suggest that Russians even deliberately targeted US personnel, in an ultimate in-your-face demonstration of what revolting contempt they have for our country, our military and our government. If these reports are true, they would clearly require an effective, equivalent & equally lethal response. If they are exaggerations, they need to be understood as explicit threats. Whatever the case may be, this is not a Russia anyone can work with, or grant access to higher status and greater opportunities to harm others. This is no longer a time for assessing "the terrorist threat": Terrorists, as awful as they are, lack air forces & phosphorus bombs. This is now the time to clearly assess The Russian Threat. Russians are out of control & acting like rabid dogs in a park crowded with children.
5
Apologists for Russia refuse to acknowledge the stark differences between western democracies and Putin's totalitarian regime. While the west also makes errors in judgement that result in tragedy, it's press and people enjoy the freedom to bring these issues to light. We can react and correct. Sometimes it's near instant, other times it may take an election or two. When our military accidentally fired on an airliner, we apologized and admitted guilt. Truth Russian style, tends to remain carefully hidden from view. Putin's poorly disguised attempt to take over the Ukraine is veiled from his citizenry. It lies hidden under the iron fists of state run media and political suppression. Putin's Russia has devolved of into a blend of dishonesty, denial and feckless bravado. Apparently the Russian people simply cannot manage well in an system based on freedom and democracy. It always seems to slip from their grasp, usually without much of a fight. Russians seem happiest under the iron fist of a Czar or other form of strongman. Though most of the manipulated Russian population may be fooled by Putin (or fearful of him), the free people of the western world are not.
10
Bad players abound.
Before WWI the socialist movement tried to establish an opposition to the 'strong man'. Working men within the different nations were asked to strike when the war mongers rattled their sabers.
The movement identified the 'bad players' as the men who held capital. The unfortunate thing is that this understanding was limited to the intellectuals within the movement.
Men like Jean Jaures and August Bebel naively considered war-mongering the whims of the men at the top.
They did not realize that the man on the street, when inflamed by chauvinism, loves to hear the sabres rattle.
Remember how Bin Laden orchestrated the plot to fly planes into skyscrapers. Yet there were those who cheered when Bush took us into Iraq.
Putin is no doubt an excrescence. And it right to denounce him as such. But, this business where the strong are seen as men we envy and want to emulate has to change.
Putin, Kim Jong Un and Trump are cut from the same cloth. In company with them is Cheney and Rumsfeld (W. just isn't bright enough to belong to this group of men). They are void of decency, class and value. They create mischief in the world. They gain support from those who love the 'strong man'. In some way, it is this view that must be eradicated.
At one time the socialists tried to administer the antidote to the 'strong man disease'. As champions of the underdog they were the voice of humanity.
They were rebuffed but the state of the world makes that voice still relevant.
Before WWI the socialist movement tried to establish an opposition to the 'strong man'. Working men within the different nations were asked to strike when the war mongers rattled their sabers.
The movement identified the 'bad players' as the men who held capital. The unfortunate thing is that this understanding was limited to the intellectuals within the movement.
Men like Jean Jaures and August Bebel naively considered war-mongering the whims of the men at the top.
They did not realize that the man on the street, when inflamed by chauvinism, loves to hear the sabres rattle.
Remember how Bin Laden orchestrated the plot to fly planes into skyscrapers. Yet there were those who cheered when Bush took us into Iraq.
Putin is no doubt an excrescence. And it right to denounce him as such. But, this business where the strong are seen as men we envy and want to emulate has to change.
Putin, Kim Jong Un and Trump are cut from the same cloth. In company with them is Cheney and Rumsfeld (W. just isn't bright enough to belong to this group of men). They are void of decency, class and value. They create mischief in the world. They gain support from those who love the 'strong man'. In some way, it is this view that must be eradicated.
At one time the socialists tried to administer the antidote to the 'strong man disease'. As champions of the underdog they were the voice of humanity.
They were rebuffed but the state of the world makes that voice still relevant.
7
USSR 2.0 wants Cold War 2.0.
10
Russia needs sanctions and lawsuits for shooting down a passenger plane.
10
These sanctions will not harm the government, they only make the lives of ordinary citizens worse
Our foreign policy towards Russia is badly flawed I think. Kerry reminds me of Chamberlin -- always reaching for agreements with a nation that doesn't keep agreements. Seems stupid to me. To repeat: stupid.
He did it in Egypt too. That worked out well. I'm a Liberal, but still: Bad Secretary of State; bad administration on foreign policy.
It seems we should get aggressive. Assad likes bombing; We should bomb his palace ... with bunker-busting bombs for sure. Russia likes to bomb civilians. We should shoot down a Russian plane or two and then declare a no-fly zone -- that's Putin talk. The order is important.
We should have special forces in the Ukraine -- lots of them. "Gee, I'm sorry somebody's special forces are killing your little green men. It's not us!" The Crimea is more complex, but Russia should be out of there, and we should make that happen too.
And we need much heavier sanctions. We should stop talking to these thugs.
He did it in Egypt too. That worked out well. I'm a Liberal, but still: Bad Secretary of State; bad administration on foreign policy.
It seems we should get aggressive. Assad likes bombing; We should bomb his palace ... with bunker-busting bombs for sure. Russia likes to bomb civilians. We should shoot down a Russian plane or two and then declare a no-fly zone -- that's Putin talk. The order is important.
We should have special forces in the Ukraine -- lots of them. "Gee, I'm sorry somebody's special forces are killing your little green men. It's not us!" The Crimea is more complex, but Russia should be out of there, and we should make that happen too.
And we need much heavier sanctions. We should stop talking to these thugs.
10
Why does the NYT keep pushing this narrative about the big bad Putin, when the actions of the US to expand NATO to Russia's border, to interfere in Syria, a part of Russia's strategic interests, and other issues, would lead any reasonably informed person that the US actions are interpreted as aggressive actions against Russia?
We are poking the bear and then expecting it to react well. Can we please stop with the high-handed tone the NYT Editorial Board displays? It only show the lack of geopolitical common sense from them as well as the current administration.
We are poking the bear and then expecting it to react well. Can we please stop with the high-handed tone the NYT Editorial Board displays? It only show the lack of geopolitical common sense from them as well as the current administration.
25
Nonsense. Russia has no legitimate strategic interests in Syria aside from out-dated posturing as a 'world power.' And Ukraine prefers to pursue its future as a democratic free-market country allied with Europe and the U.S., which is its perfect right and should be respected.
4
So you're justifying the brutal Syrian/Russian genocide in Syria on the basis of Syria being "a part of Russia's strategic interests?" Is that right?
I'm not quick on the trigger, though bombing Syrian airstrips has always made good sense to me. Ramp up the sanctions. Ramp them up to the max. We already know that the sanctions hurt Moscow and ramping them up would be a way to make them pay some more. Our "strategic interest" would be to make sure Putin knows there are consequences for his actions. If he doesn't know that, his aggressive actions will simply become more aggressive.
Your naivete about Putin is stunning. I don't know anyone who is "pushing" a narrative about "the big bad Putin." He is a KGB thug. He is a murderer. He is a bad actor on the world stage. That's not a "narrative." That's the truth. And, the facts prove it.
Why don't you offer your take on Putin to the families of those who died in the crash of the Malaysian Airlines plane? Or do you think the world conspired to find Putin guilty of being an accessory in order to "push this narrative."
Wow.
I'm not quick on the trigger, though bombing Syrian airstrips has always made good sense to me. Ramp up the sanctions. Ramp them up to the max. We already know that the sanctions hurt Moscow and ramping them up would be a way to make them pay some more. Our "strategic interest" would be to make sure Putin knows there are consequences for his actions. If he doesn't know that, his aggressive actions will simply become more aggressive.
Your naivete about Putin is stunning. I don't know anyone who is "pushing" a narrative about "the big bad Putin." He is a KGB thug. He is a murderer. He is a bad actor on the world stage. That's not a "narrative." That's the truth. And, the facts prove it.
Why don't you offer your take on Putin to the families of those who died in the crash of the Malaysian Airlines plane? Or do you think the world conspired to find Putin guilty of being an accessory in order to "push this narrative."
Wow.
3
all true. be good for the planet if the usa was a little more clear sighted about its behaviour since the end of ww2.....invasions/bombings of countries that did it no harm. backing murderous tinpot dictatorships--always of the right wing sort--in a variety of countries and backing despots
7
September 29, 2016
Wannabe tyrants to the list: Assad, North Korea, Donald Trump - the words on paper are problematic to state of nature instincts and as well to override the global cyber world of security. Divine law in Syria in the mind of Assad is in protection of world modernity to save the soul of his people and in cohort with those that fear the great evil of human rights and transparency in the press and common decency to enlightenment in the pure spirit of freedom to live expressing faith dialogue's respect for our human family's diversity.
Wannabe tyrants to the list: Assad, North Korea, Donald Trump - the words on paper are problematic to state of nature instincts and as well to override the global cyber world of security. Divine law in Syria in the mind of Assad is in protection of world modernity to save the soul of his people and in cohort with those that fear the great evil of human rights and transparency in the press and common decency to enlightenment in the pure spirit of freedom to live expressing faith dialogue's respect for our human family's diversity.
2
in Syria, more importantly, we are seeing the Sunni-Shiite conflict being played out a la the 30 years war. Even if Assad was not the dicator in power the bloodshed would still be horrendous.
1
Funny how Russian Putin-people with some power and money often have a bolt-hole in NYC. They know him well enough. After all of the obfuscation I would not be surprised to see Mr. Lavrov here in due course. Upper West side?
6
Putin, like Trump, out of control ego, insecure, no heart and void of empathy.
Problem is Putin has power; Trump never should.
Problem is Putin has power; Trump never should.
6
There you go again, Editorial Board. No word on the butchering in Yemen on schools, hospitals, etc. that we are involved in supporting Saudi Arabia but this constant, daily harping on Putin and Russia. Are you helping the build-up to World War III as you did with Iraq? And this constant demonizing of Syria's president, Assad. He did not start this war in Syria and he wasn't bombing his people until trained rebels started this war. Was Assad to roll over and give his country to the jihadists armed and trained by outside actors? Thank goodness there are those in our country who are pushing back against what we are daily fed in the mainstream media.
15
Putin is dreadful, no doubt. But perhaps Americans of all people calling him on illegal international behavior is a bit cringeworthy?
11
Fine. Then who should?
1
"suggests that the furthest thing from his mind is becoming a constructive partner in the search for peace."
SUGGESTS?!
SUGGESTS?!
1
I seem to recall that this paper supported a candidate who said calling Russia a rival was foreign policy from the 1980s. Part of the reason that Russia has surged in power is the naive perspective of this administration in many areas of foreign policy.
4
Interesting comment, given that Donald J. Trump has termed Putin "a great man" and "a great leader." And commented per how complimented he was when Putin complimented him.
One doubts that is Obama's take on Putin.
One doubts that is Obama's take on Putin.
1
But such a strong leader! Is he not to be admired by the US Republican Leader and the Party that wants so much for him to be leading all of us... ?
4
Putin has an outlaw state? Someone called that in the last presidential election. Chris Matthew's response?
“I don’t know what decade this guy’s living in, Is he trying to play Ronald Reagan here, or what?”
“I don’t know what decade this guy’s living in, Is he trying to play Ronald Reagan here, or what?”
There is no evidence to support anything in this article. Given the track record of US government lies, I would strongly suggest that your readers try to get the other side of the story before forming an opinion.
13
Thank you, Ivan.
9
As an indication of how these and other adventures are creating hardship and deprivation for the Russian people, remember that Russia's GDP only slightly larger than California's.
2
The Russian people overwhelmingly support Mr Putin. Donald Trump overwhelmingly supports Mr Putin, but not our NATO allies. Seems NATO is even more important now than a decade ago. Syria is a tragedy, partly of America's making because George W. Bush and the American Congress invaded Iraq, thereby destabilizing the region and allowing the rise of ISIS/DAESH. But the main cause of Syria's civil war is the Assad regime beginning with Papa Assad. Now Russia has joined the fray, just as it did in Afghanistan. There is nothing the U.S. should or could do now that will in any way make life better for the Syrians who are still living in that land that has been forsaken by God/Allah. Despite moral justifications to the contrary we need to stay out of the Middle East. America has done enough damage there already. Let the Russian(s) sort things out and let's see how well Mr Putin will do it.
3
Would supplying the anti-Assad forces with Stinger type ground to air missiles put a stop to the bombing of defenseless civilians?
1
Of course it would. But Obama is too invested in his foresworn non-military response and otiose diplomatic efforts, signaling to Putin that he can do as he likes with impunity. Of course, if we do decide to send in Stingers and blow the Syrians and Russians out of the sky, we would have to be sure that these missiles don't ever leave our direct control. So, this must be a job for Seal Team Six. Since the Russians are not denying that they're committing war crimes, let's not bother with the fiction of deniability. We're the only ones who can stand up to Putin and we must. To be sure we've made the point, the next time a Russian Jet buzzes any US Navy ship anywhere in the world, shoot it down. No warning.
We can be sure that Putin will test the resolve of the next president as soon as she's sworn in. She'll be sure to pull the trigger on these Russian outlaws.
We can be sure that Putin will test the resolve of the next president as soon as she's sworn in. She'll be sure to pull the trigger on these Russian outlaws.
"And Mr. Putin may be assuming that Mr. Obama is unlikely to confront Russia in his final months and with an American election season in full swing. "
Hilarious line from the NYT. For some strange reason, there's a built-in assumption by the editorial board that, if not for the election in November, Mr. Obama would step up to the plate and challenge Mr. Putin on his behavior. Hilarious!!
Hilarious line from the NYT. For some strange reason, there's a built-in assumption by the editorial board that, if not for the election in November, Mr. Obama would step up to the plate and challenge Mr. Putin on his behavior. Hilarious!!
5
In historical context Vladimir Putin is no more nor less leading an outlaw nation than is Barack Obama.
From the rise of the Kiev Rus to Ivan to Peter to Stalin to Gorbachev to Yeltsin to Putin occupying the Kremlin in Moscow ethnic Russians have been led by tough cruel cynical leaders. In a nation occupying the major portion of Asia multiple external existential threats from the Genghis Khan's Mongols to Napoleon's Imperial French to Hitler's Nazi Germany to the threat of Eisenhower's American nation maintaining internal security and order coupled with some buffer nation's was essential. Hitler killed 27.5 million Soviets.
A vast nation with a relatively small ethnic Slavic Russian population decimated by war, disease and a low birth rate conspired to naturally bring climate, geography and demography against Russian interests. But Russia is blessed with natural resources and a proud resilient people who are the ultimate survivors.
Among the 143 million Russians, the ethnic Russian Orthodox majority is aging and shrinking with growing ethnic Persian and Turkish Muslim groups growing within Russia and neighboring states. The collapse of the Soviet Union cast Russia adrift. Russia has very few alliances and allies of any kind.
America annually spends 8x Russia on it's military. America invaded and occupied Iraq/ Afghanistan. America arms it's outlaws in Tel Aviv, Cairo, Riyadh and Bangkok. America is taunting Russia with the military socioeconomic threats of NATO/EU.
From the rise of the Kiev Rus to Ivan to Peter to Stalin to Gorbachev to Yeltsin to Putin occupying the Kremlin in Moscow ethnic Russians have been led by tough cruel cynical leaders. In a nation occupying the major portion of Asia multiple external existential threats from the Genghis Khan's Mongols to Napoleon's Imperial French to Hitler's Nazi Germany to the threat of Eisenhower's American nation maintaining internal security and order coupled with some buffer nation's was essential. Hitler killed 27.5 million Soviets.
A vast nation with a relatively small ethnic Slavic Russian population decimated by war, disease and a low birth rate conspired to naturally bring climate, geography and demography against Russian interests. But Russia is blessed with natural resources and a proud resilient people who are the ultimate survivors.
Among the 143 million Russians, the ethnic Russian Orthodox majority is aging and shrinking with growing ethnic Persian and Turkish Muslim groups growing within Russia and neighboring states. The collapse of the Soviet Union cast Russia adrift. Russia has very few alliances and allies of any kind.
America annually spends 8x Russia on it's military. America invaded and occupied Iraq/ Afghanistan. America arms it's outlaws in Tel Aviv, Cairo, Riyadh and Bangkok. America is taunting Russia with the military socioeconomic threats of NATO/EU.
10
Socioeconomic threat from EU? Really? I am born and raised in one of Russia's satellite/ clients states and now live in US. Yes, America is not perfect. But do you have any idea how the Russian socioeconomic model works? Here's a poignant memory for reference: I was 8 years old and playing with my best friend at school during recess. Out of the blue my friend asks me if we listen to Radio Free Europe at home. I was suddenly alert and said - of course, not! Three times she asked me. Three times I denied. You see, I was 8 and not savvy enough to answer - what is Radio Free Europe? Of course, we were listening to Radio Free Europe. Of course, my parents told me not to tell anyone, otherwise we will end up in jail. Of course, I knew that I had to lie my best friend ...cause you never know. Of all the crimes of that regime... no food, no access to information, rolling blackouts in the winter... that's the one that still lingers and can't forgive. How can they mangle a kid's soul and teach her to lie in order to survive. And they haven't changed and want to do it again. When they will change and truly reinvent themselves (like Germany did), when they will be a force for good (because they have a great potential to be that) then they can lecture America. And then the world will follow.
2
So the New York Times is now waking up to Russia's abhorrent behavoir? This has been obvious for years. In the vernacular, "no duh". Diplomacy in these circumstances without a credible threat of force or assistance to those who need to defend themselves (whether in Ukraine or Syria) is futile. Wake up. The Obama administration's foreign policy only looks partly pathetic instead of totally pathetic because of the comparison with the complete disaster of the George W. Bush administration. But by any objective measure, it is perhaps one of the worst administration's in the arena of foreign policy in modern US history, with foreign policy failures dealing with Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Libya, North Korea, China, Russia and Ukraine. John Kerry is an embarrassment and complete failure as Secretary of State. And for the record, I am a Democrat.
5
The giveaways that you're not at all a Democrat include your identifications of Iran's nuclear deal as a "failire."
3
"we will bury you" they said not so long ago. We seem to have forgotten but not the Russians - Vlad is living the dream!
3
Many comments here are providing false equivalence. I don't recall the US INTENTIONALLY bombing hospitals and bombing convoys bringing food and medical supplies to starving civilians. These are war crimes.
22
When ISIS sets up military hospitals, you have no choice. And you may not recall the U.S. doing this, but that doesn't mean we didn't do it. We did it. They did it. It's a reality of this brutal civil war which may only end if the U.S. starts taking it seriously.
I love these, "Well, there's no evidence we did this, which proves we did this," arguments.
I am sorry not to have been updated with the Earth's recent historical events as I was away on another planet. Were the invasions of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya by America lawful, justified and legal? And are continued interferences in other nations affairs' across the glob by America and it's proxies an acceptable behavior?
31
Of course not. That in no way justifies the shooting down of civilian airliners or the bombing of hospitals full of children.
2
The US intervention in Afghanistan and Libya conformed to the norms of international law and were done with widespread international support. In fact, it would arguably have been illegal for the US and other countries not to intervene in Libya, since the justification for the intervention was the UN charter's specified duty to protect civilians. If international actors have a duty, then there's something wrong with shirking it.
The Afghanistan war was and is questionably morally justified. The conduct and the duration of the war clearly have not been, I think, although it's less clear to me that the original invasion was not morally justified.
The Iraq war was neither morally nor legally justified, and that counts against America's foreign policy record. However, the majority of Americans now believe that. In 2008, we elected a President who acknowledges that. And both of the major party candidates in this election accept that.
The Afghanistan war was and is questionably morally justified. The conduct and the duration of the war clearly have not been, I think, although it's less clear to me that the original invasion was not morally justified.
The Iraq war was neither morally nor legally justified, and that counts against America's foreign policy record. However, the majority of Americans now believe that. In 2008, we elected a President who acknowledges that. And both of the major party candidates in this election accept that.
8
Welcome back to the planet. Now we have something called "Google' -- maybe you can find your answers there.
Good luck.
Good luck.
2
Negotiate: Negotiate: Negotiate:
Are we not also being hypocritical......let's not try to hide the complexities of
the Goridian Knots...yes...plural Gordian Knots which needs to be untied.
The United Nations was created to untie Gordian Knots...not any ONE nation
like Russia or the USA...but ALL the nations of the United Nations....
Let's work together even though it seems ...to be impossible...because
together we can ....do this...the alternative...is what is called chaos..and
the Hell we see in the Middle East...by not using the United Nations as
originally intended.
Are we not also being hypocritical......let's not try to hide the complexities of
the Goridian Knots...yes...plural Gordian Knots which needs to be untied.
The United Nations was created to untie Gordian Knots...not any ONE nation
like Russia or the USA...but ALL the nations of the United Nations....
Let's work together even though it seems ...to be impossible...because
together we can ....do this...the alternative...is what is called chaos..and
the Hell we see in the Middle East...by not using the United Nations as
originally intended.
2
We cannot let Trump win!
5
Lets not forget that Russia first deployed to Siria when the conflict was 4 years old and AFTER 10million Syrians were displaced and hundred of thousands killed by invading jihady terrorists or as we know them here in the west by our media - moderate freedom fighting women rights respecting democracy loving armed groups, sponsored by freedom loving democracy respecting women's rights defending governments like Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar and Turkey. Those jihadists knocked quite a few hospitals & schools and beheaded and executed quite a few people perceived as loyal to the Syrian government in those 4 years and subsequently but we did not get an editorial on them, did we?
On the Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 tragedy, it is astonishing to me the NYT is not asking the real questions?
Were the people in the plane told they will be flaying over a war zone and were they given the option to disembark before the flight took of? Shouldent they have as a standard practice the right to know this?
Those are the type of questions the NYT should be asking instead of this garbage anty Russian propaganda. They should be asking them in the name of its readers that fly and tomorrow may end up over a war zone like those victims in flight 17 without their knowledge because a government wants to assert its sovereignty over a disputed territory by routing international planes trough it.
On the Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 tragedy, it is astonishing to me the NYT is not asking the real questions?
Were the people in the plane told they will be flaying over a war zone and were they given the option to disembark before the flight took of? Shouldent they have as a standard practice the right to know this?
Those are the type of questions the NYT should be asking instead of this garbage anty Russian propaganda. They should be asking them in the name of its readers that fly and tomorrow may end up over a war zone like those victims in flight 17 without their knowledge because a government wants to assert its sovereignty over a disputed territory by routing international planes trough it.
8
Will somebody explain to me why President al-Assad wants to hang on to rule a country that is fast becoming a pile of rubble with a populous that is scattered to the four winds except for his military? What's with Russia and Iran thinking it is a swell idea to support him in the destruction of Syria as a viable country?
2
The victor controls the flow of energy through pipelines to Europe. Follow the money...
3
Vladimir Putin is challenging us with the same tactics Benjamin Netanyahu has employed without being given our firm rebuke.
5
Putin is little more than a gangster running a nation with an iron fist. Does this sound familiar?
5
I don’t see how this behavior is any different than that of the United States in Vietnam and in Iraq.
12
To find out, relocate to Magnitogorsk and publicly state "I don't see any difference between the US in Vietnam and Iraq and Russia in Georgia, Ukraine and Syria.
3
He's been kicked out of the G-8. He should be kicked out of all the other G's AND the UN security council. Further sanctions should be applied. Squeeze his country, and maybe the people will rise up. Although, Russians seem to thrive on deprivation. Makes them feel saintly, as they ignore the things that happen to their fellow citizens.
8
Bottom line is---if given the choice---would you rather be living in the U.S. or Russia. I thought so!
6
"Outlaw Nation" Look who's calling the kettle black.
4
Get more pictures of murdered babies in Aleppo along with blown up hospitals.
A photo or 2 will go farther than weeks of Times Opinions.
Why in this world of camera phones do we not have stirring images to help stop these wars?
Who is censoring them?
A photo or 2 will go farther than weeks of Times Opinions.
Why in this world of camera phones do we not have stirring images to help stop these wars?
Who is censoring them?
2
Isn't Putin just another Czar? Some semblance of democracy comes to Russia and then another Czar takes over with force, either "subtly" or openly.
Nicholas-Kerensky?-Lenin
Kruschev-Gorbachev-Putin
Nicholas-Kerensky?-Lenin
Kruschev-Gorbachev-Putin
4
Dang, that's really interesting! (meant seriously, not sarcastically) Now to complete the analogy we need context. Instead of a background of trying to modernize feudal government, some industrial development in a sea of economic backwardness, and the military, economic, and human strains of WWI, what's our 1990s-2000s context for Russia post-USSR? Aftermath of defeat in Afghanistan? Repeated diplomatic humiliations at the hands of the West, especially the U.S., e.g. eastward expansion of NATO despite spirit of 4+2 agreements? Rapid economic development in what is still an economically backward country? Inability to adapt from party dictatorship to democracy?
Russians people beat the Nazis and invented space travel. Now they have aligned with thugs both foreign and domestic, and reduced themselves to stealing credit card numbers and cheating at sports. Russia must find its soul again; it will not find it by invading its neighbors.
15
Relativity here NY Times editorial board, relativity.
Putin has done many things, some good, some bad, and some ugly imo that the NYTimes has written about. So has the US too.
1-Bush 2 is an admitted war criminal. Putin is not. While he has killed civilians in Aleppo they were accidents not intentional according to him just like America has done in recent wars. Putin is not an admitted war criminal, Bush 2 is.
2-In eastern Ukraine and Crimea, he is attempting to get back Russian speaking areas of the old USSR that were given up when the USSR self dissolved.
3-He is supporting Assad, who is becoming a candidate for being hauled into the Hague for war crimes but we do the same in countless countries like Saudi Arabia etc.
4-Putin is helping us against ISIS, a blood thirsty criminal gang that all sides can agree must be eliminated.
Putin has done many things, some good, some bad, and some ugly imo that the NYTimes has written about. So has the US too.
1-Bush 2 is an admitted war criminal. Putin is not. While he has killed civilians in Aleppo they were accidents not intentional according to him just like America has done in recent wars. Putin is not an admitted war criminal, Bush 2 is.
2-In eastern Ukraine and Crimea, he is attempting to get back Russian speaking areas of the old USSR that were given up when the USSR self dissolved.
3-He is supporting Assad, who is becoming a candidate for being hauled into the Hague for war crimes but we do the same in countless countries like Saudi Arabia etc.
4-Putin is helping us against ISIS, a blood thirsty criminal gang that all sides can agree must be eliminated.
5
So I guess Obama and Clinton's "Russian Reset" is over finally?
The 1950's must not have wanted it's foreign policy back from Mitt Romney after all.
And I think we can agree, when Obama promised Medvedev to tell Putin he'd be more flexible after the election - well, let's just say he is a yoga master.
Funny how they were never in any way held accountable by the press.
A disgrace.
The 1950's must not have wanted it's foreign policy back from Mitt Romney after all.
And I think we can agree, when Obama promised Medvedev to tell Putin he'd be more flexible after the election - well, let's just say he is a yoga master.
Funny how they were never in any way held accountable by the press.
A disgrace.
4
And you expected what from Putin and Russia?
Who writes these editorials? It must be a kindergarten teacher looking for everyone to behave and no hitting!
Putin will do whatever he thinks he can get away with. His goal is to rebuild the Soviet empire and he has no intention of stopping unless he is forced to.
Why does this surprise and upset the NYT Editorial board. He has never acted differently and won't. No surprises here. The only question is what Obama will be willing to do to make him back down. Scolding him is not going to get it done.
Who writes these editorials? It must be a kindergarten teacher looking for everyone to behave and no hitting!
Putin will do whatever he thinks he can get away with. His goal is to rebuild the Soviet empire and he has no intention of stopping unless he is forced to.
Why does this surprise and upset the NYT Editorial board. He has never acted differently and won't. No surprises here. The only question is what Obama will be willing to do to make him back down. Scolding him is not going to get it done.
4
Forgotten in this editorial is the fact that the Russian Air Force has NOT been bombing Al Quaeda/ISIS fighters. The last thing Russia wants--or needs--is "Muslim terrorism" in Russia itself. There was that debacle from Chechen rebels in a Moscow variety theater, not to mention some distant memories of Russia's abortive Afghan war of 1979-80.
It's far easier to bomb anti-Assad rebels in Aleppo to keep Russian Navy access to the Mediterranean rather than keep promises to the United States.
It's far easier to bomb anti-Assad rebels in Aleppo to keep Russian Navy access to the Mediterranean rather than keep promises to the United States.
6
Stalin was more trustworthy than is Putin. Imagine that!
2
Everyone should remember that there is no reason why the US or rather a US independent media organization cannot condemn Putin, just because the US does something wrong. This is the classic deflection of whataboutism. Just because one side does something stupid or wrong (let's say invade Iraq) does not give the other license to do something deplorable (let's say invade Ukraine). The whataboutism is laced with doublespeak, as it on one hand indicts the US (oh, but the US did something horrible), and on the other exculpates Russia (oh, but the US did it too!).
7
War crimes should be prosecuted no matter who commits them. Such prosecution is our only hope of deterring unjustified military aggression and bringing peace to millions of people worldwide.
The problem with today's editorial is that it calls for prosecuting one allegedly guilty party, Russia, while totally failing to call for prosecution of obviously guilty parties, Blair, Bush, Cheney, Rice, Powell, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, etc.
The problem with today's editorial is that it calls for prosecuting one allegedly guilty party, Russia, while totally failing to call for prosecution of obviously guilty parties, Blair, Bush, Cheney, Rice, Powell, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, etc.
2
Could Putin believe that escalating conflict around the world will help his "friend" Trump win the election?
3
I suggest we elect a president who has real experience dealing with foreign governments, and who knows Putin for what he is.
Let's not elect someone who is in a deep bromance with Vlad, and who is financially beholden to Russian oligarchs.
Let's not elect someone who is in a deep bromance with Vlad, and who is financially beholden to Russian oligarchs.
5
And this is the "strong man" Mr. Trump so admires.
3
While oil stays below $50/barrel, Putin's oligarchical owned petro-economy shudders and shakes...
We have our income inequalities in our country, but they pale in comparison to the 0.1% Putin oligarchs vs. the 99.9% of the rest of the Russians. It's unsustainable. He can't press/police-state/election manipulate his way out of the problems of a single sourced income economy. That's our long game.
Mr. Gorbachev, agreed to "...tear down that wall!", because he knew the USSR could not keep up with our military spending and his economy was in ruine. Things were actually getting better between us, until Putin put up his new "walls" to West.
Of all the reasons for *The Donald's* disqualification, it is this never bending bromance for Putin that raises the greatest security concerns. He believes Putin is a great leader. He wants him to continue hacking away and alter the US political process. He believes he can *deal* with him. Putin's long game not only does not have our interest in mind, they directly oppose our interests and security. And it is why everyone in national security declare Trump as unqualified.
Until there is transparency into his taxes, how do we know if there aren't financial ties to Putin's oligarch handlers? He sold that Palm Beach compound for a *yuge* profit to one already. Trump SoHo has oligarch connections. What else is he hiding? We can't afford to find out after the elections.
We have our income inequalities in our country, but they pale in comparison to the 0.1% Putin oligarchs vs. the 99.9% of the rest of the Russians. It's unsustainable. He can't press/police-state/election manipulate his way out of the problems of a single sourced income economy. That's our long game.
Mr. Gorbachev, agreed to "...tear down that wall!", because he knew the USSR could not keep up with our military spending and his economy was in ruine. Things were actually getting better between us, until Putin put up his new "walls" to West.
Of all the reasons for *The Donald's* disqualification, it is this never bending bromance for Putin that raises the greatest security concerns. He believes Putin is a great leader. He wants him to continue hacking away and alter the US political process. He believes he can *deal* with him. Putin's long game not only does not have our interest in mind, they directly oppose our interests and security. And it is why everyone in national security declare Trump as unqualified.
Until there is transparency into his taxes, how do we know if there aren't financial ties to Putin's oligarch handlers? He sold that Palm Beach compound for a *yuge* profit to one already. Trump SoHo has oligarch connections. What else is he hiding? We can't afford to find out after the elections.
5
He is just being himself. When he is allowed to use his rules, he will always use his rules, which may well be none at all. The UN and the Geneva Conventions have always benefited those who ignore them; it is how wars are won.
Weird how so many readers think just because the USA is a monster, we shouldn't criticize a literal murderer. Sounds like an echo chamber in here. I'm here to tell you we all believe in ideals that lead to destruction. Even if the USA is hypocritical in making that analysis, it's not a lie. Putin should be weakened. Wow I said it.
1
The NYT editorial board has lost all objectivity in regards to Russia. Everything about Russia's actions that this editorial condemns is simply unfounded in fact. It has not at all been established that Russia was to blame for shooting down MH17. Regarding the war in Syria, it is Russia that is legally fighting terrorism at the invitation of its ally, while the US, on the other hand, has generally acted in the Middle East without any respect for international law. That's one reason why Obama tried to veto the legislation allowing lawsuits against alleged Saudi Arabian terror activity. The US is vulnerable to being charged with crimes similar to those it condemns Russia for committing.
8
Iranian ground troops? That's a first. It sure helps get the dander up of the conspiracy theorist though.
At the expense of looking like a Russian "apologist," let's not forget who invaded whom here and that Russia has an obligation to honor a long standing treaty with Syria.
We, in turn, are backing a coalition, and I use the term loosely, of rebels attempting regime change by violent means. We are doing this because of a tremendous gaff on the part of the previous administration that created a Shiite arc from Lebanon to Iran.
There are other countries in the area that are predominantly Shiite yet controlled by Sunni's. When are we going to change those regimes? Meanwhile, what passes for national news on the evening telecasts is the weather and some poor fellow dropping an engagement ring.
At the expense of looking like a Russian "apologist," let's not forget who invaded whom here and that Russia has an obligation to honor a long standing treaty with Syria.
We, in turn, are backing a coalition, and I use the term loosely, of rebels attempting regime change by violent means. We are doing this because of a tremendous gaff on the part of the previous administration that created a Shiite arc from Lebanon to Iran.
There are other countries in the area that are predominantly Shiite yet controlled by Sunni's. When are we going to change those regimes? Meanwhile, what passes for national news on the evening telecasts is the weather and some poor fellow dropping an engagement ring.
3
Here is all that is wrong with this editorial. The list is long, so be patient.
(1) "his country shares a special responsibility to uphold international law"
So does the US, who invaded Iraq illegally, bombed Libya's government out of existence illegally and is acting in Syria illegally.
(2) "But the new report, produced by prosecutors from the Netherlands, Australia, Belgium, Malaysia and Ukraine, "
Wonderful, so Ukraine, an enemy of Russia, is co-author of the report? Obviously the report is not serious.
(3) "Some Western officials have accused Russia of war crimes"
The civil war in Syria would long have been long over by simple exhaustion if external powers did not provide an endless supply of weaponry and material support. Interestingly Russia's presence in Syria is completely legal, while everybody else is there illegally. If the US and its allies cut supplies to the rebels the civil war would have already ended, which is what the Syrian population wants.
(4) "But with the rebel stronghold in Aleppo under threat of falling to the government, administration officials said that such a response is again under consideration."
How absurd. The government of Syria is about to end the civil war in Syria and the US administration is considering to prevent this from happening? For how many more years does the US government want to keep this war and the slaughtering alive? Did we learn nothing from Iraq and Libya?
(1) "his country shares a special responsibility to uphold international law"
So does the US, who invaded Iraq illegally, bombed Libya's government out of existence illegally and is acting in Syria illegally.
(2) "But the new report, produced by prosecutors from the Netherlands, Australia, Belgium, Malaysia and Ukraine, "
Wonderful, so Ukraine, an enemy of Russia, is co-author of the report? Obviously the report is not serious.
(3) "Some Western officials have accused Russia of war crimes"
The civil war in Syria would long have been long over by simple exhaustion if external powers did not provide an endless supply of weaponry and material support. Interestingly Russia's presence in Syria is completely legal, while everybody else is there illegally. If the US and its allies cut supplies to the rebels the civil war would have already ended, which is what the Syrian population wants.
(4) "But with the rebel stronghold in Aleppo under threat of falling to the government, administration officials said that such a response is again under consideration."
How absurd. The government of Syria is about to end the civil war in Syria and the US administration is considering to prevent this from happening? For how many more years does the US government want to keep this war and the slaughtering alive? Did we learn nothing from Iraq and Libya?
12
Just because the Ukraine is part of the report does not obviate its findings. The American government did not initiate nor does it have any control over the warring factions in Syria. The blame for the melt down of the Syrian state lays squarely on the shoulders of its despotic regime and the ineptitude of its leader Basher Assad.
1
And Putin is the man Trump admires openly and repeatedly as a strong leader.
3
Has anyone asked Donald Trump to condemn the reckless actions of Russia in providing the kind of advanced missile systems to Ukrainian pro-Russian rebels that allowed them to shoot down a civilian airliner? It would be fascinating to hear his response.
1
He would say it can't be proven Put in did it. "It could have been some 400 pound guy on a couch..."
2
Diplomacy has failed. It's time for a russian surrogate to take a serious beating.
3
Russia is Russia is Russia - they only understand one thing, force or threat of it.
3
As a recent subscriber I am disappointed to find the NYT very similar to Hillary Clinton: posing as liberal but clearly holding hidden agendas. To me "liberal" rhymes with "just" and "impartial" but what I've seen so far is a lot of "partial" and facetious in the editorial line. Well, fortunately the Entertainment, Travel and Science sections are still worth the subscription.
3
Putin is the only head of state standing in the way of Washington and Saudi efforts to turn Syria into a Sunni Muslim fundamentalist jihadist hellhole.
I hope he and Russia continue doing what they're doing.
As for Ukraine, the ethnic Russians in the East have their rights and made their choice. A nation means nothing if it doesn't mean its people.
I hope he and Russia continue doing what they're doing.
As for Ukraine, the ethnic Russians in the East have their rights and made their choice. A nation means nothing if it doesn't mean its people.
6
In the short span of 25 years as the only super power we the US have made a royal mess of things everywhere.
We are the elephant in the china room.
How about writing an editorial about that?
We are the elephant in the china room.
How about writing an editorial about that?
4
The Times embraces the One Super Power theory of American foreign policy, but this latest turn in this chapter is reckless and dangerous. Obama's decline to bomb Syria following the false flag gas attack by the rebels may have been common sense on his part but it hasn't deterred others in the administration.
The seven nation regime change plan from the neocons is well known. What's also well known is how disastrous it has been. Iraq is no longer a functioning unified nation. Syria is in shambles and Libya has been reduced to a group of tribal fiefdoms some supported by us, others supported by Islamic extremists.
This latest ratcheting up of tension with Russia over Syria is simply using their admittedly atrocious bombing of Allepo to push closer to direct intervention against Assad by the US, even though it risks direct military conflict with Russia. There is no justification for either of these insane approaches.
Read the foreign press. There are no moderate rebels. We are supporting elements as dangerous as ISIS. Read the Times. Saudi Arabia, our surrogate, is killing civilians by the thousands in Yemen and our response isn't the pious cry for human rights by Times editors; it's more US bombs and deals for more US plans to deliver them.
Russia has a military alliance on its borders and a US antimissile system deployed there. We have never disavowed a first strike with nuclear weapons and we are destabilizing southern Russia's border. This madness must stop.
The seven nation regime change plan from the neocons is well known. What's also well known is how disastrous it has been. Iraq is no longer a functioning unified nation. Syria is in shambles and Libya has been reduced to a group of tribal fiefdoms some supported by us, others supported by Islamic extremists.
This latest ratcheting up of tension with Russia over Syria is simply using their admittedly atrocious bombing of Allepo to push closer to direct intervention against Assad by the US, even though it risks direct military conflict with Russia. There is no justification for either of these insane approaches.
Read the foreign press. There are no moderate rebels. We are supporting elements as dangerous as ISIS. Read the Times. Saudi Arabia, our surrogate, is killing civilians by the thousands in Yemen and our response isn't the pious cry for human rights by Times editors; it's more US bombs and deals for more US plans to deliver them.
Russia has a military alliance on its borders and a US antimissile system deployed there. We have never disavowed a first strike with nuclear weapons and we are destabilizing southern Russia's border. This madness must stop.
8
I'm not sure why the NY Times continues to support US involvement in civil conflicts simply because Russia has inserted itself. The US involvement in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya has been a disaster. Our current support of Saudi Arabia's war in Yemen is littered with war crimes against civilians.
If we have learned anything it's that superpower involvement in civil conflicts has been a disaster for the country that gets in and chooses sides.
The NY Times shilled for the war in Iraq and now is shilling for US to confront Russian involvement in civil conflicts that's likely to drain Russian military and financial assets.
The NY Times should stop shilling for the Pentagon war mongers.
If we have learned anything it's that superpower involvement in civil conflicts has been a disaster for the country that gets in and chooses sides.
The NY Times shilled for the war in Iraq and now is shilling for US to confront Russian involvement in civil conflicts that's likely to drain Russian military and financial assets.
The NY Times should stop shilling for the Pentagon war mongers.
4
In Saint Louis candidates Trump and Clinton need to asked their opinions of the investigators' conclusions regarding this tragic event.
1
It's time for the NYT to stop weaponizing its work product with regard to Russia.
Russia has been granted access by a sovereign government to Syria - The USA has "not", so it should immediately leave Syria.
Both Russia & Syrian government are doing what they are supposed to do which is protect the State.
Cease and Desist!
Russia has been granted access by a sovereign government to Syria - The USA has "not", so it should immediately leave Syria.
Both Russia & Syrian government are doing what they are supposed to do which is protect the State.
Cease and Desist!
6
In modern American political vernacular: Putin is making Russia great again.
5
Look, you could just as easily have a headline stating "Barak Obama's Outlaw State," and then list many, many more crimes caused by our illegal wars and drone strikes and assassinations and torture. Please stop turning your editorial blind eye to our own illegal acts, crimes we can actually do something about.
7
If you really think that US backing of ultra-religious jihadis in Syria, both directly and indirectly, represents an improvement over the Assad regime, then you are delusional and pandering lies. The US, in coordination with Saudi Arabia, a country not known for any kind of democracy or human rights, conspired to overthrow the government of Syria and install a religious regime. Together, they have imported and backed thousands of non-Syrians to do the dirty work. The idea that they are backing 'moderates' is a flat out farce. There is no moderate opposition and never has been. But, the fact that the US is so gung-ho on backing rebels and those who oppose a legitimate government is puzzling. We know exactly how the US government treats those who oppose it here. They crush them like bugs.
2
And let us continue to acknowledge that Comrade Putin is the statesman's role model for Donald Trump.
3
Russia was all but given a pass by our country under this administration - first the naive offer of a reset (as if Bush was the problem), then our blinking with the red line and our sitting idly by when Crimea was taken (although, I have to admit, I felt that Crimea wanted to be Russian and that we would support other countries in similar situations if they weren't seeking to join with an adversary - but that wasn't the administrations position). I'm sure Putin knows there are limits, but he, Iran, N. Korea, Syria (gov't and ISIS) can feel certain that we are not going to do anything about it. And we likely will not. ISIS is an example of a group that took it too far, and they do not have the backing of a stronger country with nuclear weapons. So, at least with them, we slowly (much too slowly) fight them. Russia and Iran confront our military - Iran has even grabbed our sailors, and so on. Although I do not support either major candidate, I don't think they would be taking the same chances or acting the same way with Trump or Clinton. We will find out.
How cynical on the part of the US! It sounds like nobody at the State Dept or anywhere in US government has learned from history. Russia has used a scorched earth policy to build its empire from the time of Peter the Great and before. Stalingrad under Stalin is still raw in the memory of many. Is it not credible that the US is serious about holding cease-fire talks in Syria, for example, knowing Russia's past history. It's all a game at a cost of millions of lives. And the US is just as guilty as Russia for allowing it to go on.
What a naive op ed. Did anyone ever doubt that Vladimir Putin is the Czar? What would NY Times and the self-appointed Washington policy elite have in his place? Russia is an old-fashioned Empire and its leader is the Russian state. He is the founder of this post-Soviet empire. Mr. Putin will do whatever it takes to preserve Russian power. He can draw on vast natural resources and overwhelming military power. He enjoys the support of the great majority of Russians who agree with his policies, polices he wrote and published in 1999.
The strength of the Russian state and the allegiance of its subjects has always founded on external threats, real threats. Look at Russian history - if it's not Tartars sacking Moscow or British or German invasions, it will be the NATO and American antagonism.
The question is why feed into that. Russia has pressing threats from the Caucasus to China. It would much rather be able to focus on Iran or Karimov's successor in Uzbekistan and it would be entirely tractable if the West were non-threatening. Instead, the West threatened its very existence by attempting to exploit the Ukraine's Black Sea oil and gas reserves - which would have cut off the hard currency life line. Why not let the Czar have his empire? We are in no position to stabilize it. If the results of US policies in the "Arab Spring" are any example, Mr. Putin's methods are understandable to a state like Russia under constant existential threat.
The strength of the Russian state and the allegiance of its subjects has always founded on external threats, real threats. Look at Russian history - if it's not Tartars sacking Moscow or British or German invasions, it will be the NATO and American antagonism.
The question is why feed into that. Russia has pressing threats from the Caucasus to China. It would much rather be able to focus on Iran or Karimov's successor in Uzbekistan and it would be entirely tractable if the West were non-threatening. Instead, the West threatened its very existence by attempting to exploit the Ukraine's Black Sea oil and gas reserves - which would have cut off the hard currency life line. Why not let the Czar have his empire? We are in no position to stabilize it. If the results of US policies in the "Arab Spring" are any example, Mr. Putin's methods are understandable to a state like Russia under constant existential threat.
2
We are fiddling while Rome burns. We are applying all our attention to this cartoonish election while there are serious matters boiling abroad. Two nuclear powers are in a shooting conflict on the subcontinent - one provoking the other, as recently as yesterday. We are being drawn into a proxy war in Syria of our own doing. And this guy is responding predictably, sensing the opportunity - he will take it.
Que the air raid sirens.
We can spin it any way we like but truth is truth and we've turned our world upside down. The conservative candidate in our American election is the Democrat and the change candidate is the Republican. We are on the brink of something abroad and we'd better be smart about this or even more will suffer the consequences of our complacency.
But right now we're wallowing in our own morass of spin and entertainment and we have fellow earthlings subtly declaring themselves our enemy, and the enemy of each other.
Que the air raid sirens.
We can spin it any way we like but truth is truth and we've turned our world upside down. The conservative candidate in our American election is the Democrat and the change candidate is the Republican. We are on the brink of something abroad and we'd better be smart about this or even more will suffer the consequences of our complacency.
But right now we're wallowing in our own morass of spin and entertainment and we have fellow earthlings subtly declaring themselves our enemy, and the enemy of each other.
After Boris Yeltsin, Putin initially looked good for Russia. It was all just window dressing. He consolidated power, eliminated all opposition in any form and crushed the dreams of the Russian people.
At least with the Soviet Union there was an honesty as to what it was. You may not have liked it but in the end it was understandable and rational.
Russia under Putin is unpredictable, dangerous, & completely untrustworthy.
At least with the Soviet Union there was an honesty as to what it was. You may not have liked it but in the end it was understandable and rational.
Russia under Putin is unpredictable, dangerous, & completely untrustworthy.
3
The Russian trolls seem to be out in full force today: The most recommended comment right now claims that the U.S. and Russia are morally equivalent. Let's ask everyone in the world where they would prefer to live and which government they trust and admire more. Is there anyone who would claim that it would be even close?
The U.S. Government is no saint (is there any such person or entity?) but it is absolutely orders of magnitude better than Russia's.
The U.S. Government is no saint (is there any such person or entity?) but it is absolutely orders of magnitude better than Russia's.
15
You guys are "all in" it's easy to see. Our own nation spurred this Arab Spring wildfire, and everybody knows it. Syria is another domino for the Washington think tanks and the old guard that needs us stupid and humble.
I am ashamed to admit my family bought and turned the pages of this newspaper. The editorial board, the voice of the NYTs, out and out misleading the readership. Shame on you each and every one.
Russia is not lily white innocent in all this world chaos, but neither has Russia invaded just about every country on the world as ours has, in one way or other (Exxon etc.) And you have the unmitigated audacity to play this deadly game all over again!!! People die because of your corporate games... trillions that could be spent doing good are wasted because of you psychopaths.
When all is said and done, I will get down on my knees and pray to God the world learns what you have done, what you are doing, what the real name of this game is. The butchers are us... we created this mess right alongside the Brits.... and to cover the stench we blame a convenient Russia....
I am ashamed to admit my family bought and turned the pages of this newspaper. The editorial board, the voice of the NYTs, out and out misleading the readership. Shame on you each and every one.
Russia is not lily white innocent in all this world chaos, but neither has Russia invaded just about every country on the world as ours has, in one way or other (Exxon etc.) And you have the unmitigated audacity to play this deadly game all over again!!! People die because of your corporate games... trillions that could be spent doing good are wasted because of you psychopaths.
When all is said and done, I will get down on my knees and pray to God the world learns what you have done, what you are doing, what the real name of this game is. The butchers are us... we created this mess right alongside the Brits.... and to cover the stench we blame a convenient Russia....
5
An NYT endorsement of Vladimir Putin! Putin has demonstrated, in both the Ukraine and Syria, that he is a professional politician. We, the US, on the other hand, function as a loose cannon on the world stage. We have completely disassembled the Middle East and have set the stage for the spread of terror from that fertile breeding ground. My hope is that we will eventually learn something from the rational behavior of others, in this case Vladimir Putin.
2
This war would have ended before it even began if not for external state sponsorship, i.e., the so-called rebels are not shooting at tanks with rifles!
But of course you're just obfuscating realities.
But of course you're just obfuscating realities.
1
International law, decency? Have you not heard of the illegal invasion of Iraq where over 100,000 innocent civilians died?
7
Oh boy. So what would you NYT editors suggest? Nuke Russia? The Final Solution to the Russian Problem? Yes, that's right, your mind set does bring memories of those suggestions. Look yourself in a mirror, would you?
3
Interesting article. As someone living right on top of one of the possible battlefields I was worried about this issue for a long time.
May I humbly ask if the New York Times' Editorial Board advocates war with Russia as part of the presidential campaign?
Shouldn't candidate Clinton declare if she wants a war with Russia or not on a basis of a "principle"?
May I humbly ask if the New York Times' Editorial Board advocates war with Russia as part of the presidential campaign?
Shouldn't candidate Clinton declare if she wants a war with Russia or not on a basis of a "principle"?
1
Putin's models are the likes of Alexander the Great, Ghengis, Napoleon, and several of the great, combative Russian Tsars, etc. He is playing to win. For him and his role models there is no such thing as an "Outlaw State" because they make the laws.
3
If Putin's an outlaw then he's a punk outlaw at best. Much like Netanyahu, much like Dick Cheney. Someone who's so willing to put a young soldier's neck on th line and perfectly willing to take innocent lives all for th sake of appearing tough. They're not all dumb in Russia, where eventually this act will catch up to him and there will be no turning back. Much like what's happened to Cheney and his party.
2
PUTIN Is an extremely dangerous despot. His disregard for human life, basic decency and the rule of law show him to be ruthless and utterly devoid of remorse. That Donald Trump should speak well of Putin is yet another clear indication of Trump's frontal lobe dementia and his extremely poor insight and judgment. (Gotta put in a plug for voting against Trump as a matter of US national security.) Putin is acting just the way that a Soviet style head of the KGB would be expected to behave. And the world is far worse for the cataclysmic Play It Again Vlad actions that he has pursued. He is a power mad despot who would like nothing better than to bring the Soviet Union back together again. I guess he doesn't know the story of Humpty Dumpty. Probably doesn't know the story of Trumptee Dumptee either. But this is no laughing matter. How to stop Putin? That's the question. But is there any answer? His coterie of kleptocrats have no motivation to act against him. But who knows what cells of dissidents on Russia might come up with.
2
The U.S.A in the last 15 Years alone has:
-invaded Iraq, an Invasion that turned the Region into a War zone.
-Bombed Libya, bombings which turned a once stable Country into a Terrorism Hotbed. Terrorism that spread throughout Western Africa
-The U.S is supporting rebels groups that want to turn Syria a country where Muslims, Christians used to live in peace into the next Saudi Arabia where it's illegal to be Christian.
-The U.S is supporting Saudi Arabia dirty bombing Campaign in Yemen.
'm not a Putin fan, but what Putin has done pale in comparison with what America does.
-invaded Iraq, an Invasion that turned the Region into a War zone.
-Bombed Libya, bombings which turned a once stable Country into a Terrorism Hotbed. Terrorism that spread throughout Western Africa
-The U.S is supporting rebels groups that want to turn Syria a country where Muslims, Christians used to live in peace into the next Saudi Arabia where it's illegal to be Christian.
-The U.S is supporting Saudi Arabia dirty bombing Campaign in Yemen.
'm not a Putin fan, but what Putin has done pale in comparison with what America does.
7
Another hit piece on the Russians, with Putin as Mr. evil again. The only trouble is the facts get in the way of this narrative. It was during the Olympics in Russia when Vicki Nuland and the gang engineered a pro western coup. Just a little history for your editorial board, the Nazis invaded Russia through Ukraine, which has a long border with Russia. the attempt to Land lock the Russians by a military takeover of Crimea, which is 80% Russian speaking people, was met with swift annexation with the support of the people by a wide margin. Bad policy forced Putin's hand, in the end it is directly tied to their security, big time. Only a fool could not see this.Why are we arming terrorists in Syria? Get real. Immediately after Libya the "revolution" was exported to Syria. Why were we arming Al Qaeda, which then spun off ISIS to take the heat off from them. Make no mistake the so called rebels we are supporting are terrorists, this Regime Change policy has to end. It is why our founders required an act of congress in the Constitution, article 1, sec 8. the president does not become commander in chief until war is declared, or specific action, a letter of marquee and reprisal, is debated and voted on. The President with a kill list is not in the constitution either.
10
And we are considering a self-absorbed nincompoop to contend with Putin.
I just pray that we can have fair elections, without hacking. Because Putin desperately wants Trump.
I just pray that we can have fair elections, without hacking. Because Putin desperately wants Trump.
"President Vladimir Putin is fast turning Russia into an outlaw nation."
You must be kidding. It is the U.S. that is the outlaw nation. Our behavior in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and Syria ignores international law. We are a rogue nation panicked by an emerging multi-polar world. U.S. war hawks think they can illegally bomb their way out of the fact that we must adjust to a multi-polar world that demands (finally) respecting international law.
In Syria, for example, the U.S., ignoring international law, trains, arms, and pays proxy terrorists (from over 80 countries) to slaughter Syrians in an illegal war of aggression on a sovereign state. The ultimate war crime is 'war of aggression.' The CIA has admitted it contributes $1 billion annually to this illegal proxy war on Syria. We contribute a lot more.
It's time for the U.S. to abide by international law. I'm disgusted by the behavior of my country in Syria. Russia is in Syria legally, is not 'bombing hospitals,' and is helping democratically elected President Assad try to keep his secular country from turing into Head-chopper Central. Of course, Israel would prefer this. Syria is a threat to Israel because Iran is a Syrian ally.
The U.S. is not in Syria legally and has no right under international law to be on Syrian soil or over Syrian airspace. It is rich for the NYT Editorial Board to criticize Russia.
You must be kidding. It is the U.S. that is the outlaw nation. Our behavior in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and Syria ignores international law. We are a rogue nation panicked by an emerging multi-polar world. U.S. war hawks think they can illegally bomb their way out of the fact that we must adjust to a multi-polar world that demands (finally) respecting international law.
In Syria, for example, the U.S., ignoring international law, trains, arms, and pays proxy terrorists (from over 80 countries) to slaughter Syrians in an illegal war of aggression on a sovereign state. The ultimate war crime is 'war of aggression.' The CIA has admitted it contributes $1 billion annually to this illegal proxy war on Syria. We contribute a lot more.
It's time for the U.S. to abide by international law. I'm disgusted by the behavior of my country in Syria. Russia is in Syria legally, is not 'bombing hospitals,' and is helping democratically elected President Assad try to keep his secular country from turing into Head-chopper Central. Of course, Israel would prefer this. Syria is a threat to Israel because Iran is a Syrian ally.
The U.S. is not in Syria legally and has no right under international law to be on Syrian soil or over Syrian airspace. It is rich for the NYT Editorial Board to criticize Russia.
8
When is our self appointed governing elite going to learn? We do not need to confront Russia in Syria and we would not be doing this if it were not for the overwhelming Saudi influence in Washington.
We don't need to like other countries. We don't even need to like allies. We have pursued an antagonistic policy toward Russia since the capitulation of the USSR under the maxim "they can't have their empire back". Of course this is foolish. What does Washington think will take the place of the Russian Federation? It is almost unthinkable what would happen in dissolution of the post-Soviet state. But again and again, we make trouble for Russia, just as we destabilized the Ukraine, East Berlin 1953, Hungary 1956, Czechoslovakia 1968, fomenting unrest and backing away when the Russian tanks roll.
Russia is always going to do what it determines will assure its survival. Branding Putin an outlaw is silly. He's a czar. And since when did we follow norms of international law.
Our job is to make Syria not worse. Assad is not to our liking, too bad. We'll deal with him as we have to. He's not a threat to Israel or Iraq. Iraq is already a failed state and could and should be divided into a Kurdish state and along what ever sectarian lines the Shiites and Sunnis can work out.
In the mean time, Assad is providing a killing ground for terrorists. We have no business intervening in Muslim sectarian wars. Let Russia solve our problem that way.
We don't need to like other countries. We don't even need to like allies. We have pursued an antagonistic policy toward Russia since the capitulation of the USSR under the maxim "they can't have their empire back". Of course this is foolish. What does Washington think will take the place of the Russian Federation? It is almost unthinkable what would happen in dissolution of the post-Soviet state. But again and again, we make trouble for Russia, just as we destabilized the Ukraine, East Berlin 1953, Hungary 1956, Czechoslovakia 1968, fomenting unrest and backing away when the Russian tanks roll.
Russia is always going to do what it determines will assure its survival. Branding Putin an outlaw is silly. He's a czar. And since when did we follow norms of international law.
Our job is to make Syria not worse. Assad is not to our liking, too bad. We'll deal with him as we have to. He's not a threat to Israel or Iraq. Iraq is already a failed state and could and should be divided into a Kurdish state and along what ever sectarian lines the Shiites and Sunnis can work out.
In the mean time, Assad is providing a killing ground for terrorists. We have no business intervening in Muslim sectarian wars. Let Russia solve our problem that way.
2
In Vladimir Putin we have the acknowledged model of Donald J. Trump. What seems evident is to rule with such authority a leader can not tolerate the inconvenience of divided, multi-branch government, and must rule unilaterally, or from the Latin root, as an autocratic.
In the USA the transition will be easier than we think, especially with a friendly Supreme Court. But even that is not absolutely necessary from the words of President Andrew Jackson, "Justice Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it."
AlRodbell.com
In the USA the transition will be easier than we think, especially with a friendly Supreme Court. But even that is not absolutely necessary from the words of President Andrew Jackson, "Justice Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it."
AlRodbell.com
Here we go again. The foreign policy elites that gave us Vietnam, Iraq, the Contras, Syria, Libya, the mess in Israel, the dictator in Chile, the mess in Egypt and the almost-war with Iran now want to bestow upon us a new Cold War. Putin is Hitler. Will it ever stop? How many human beings are dead because the US invaded Iraq? Add to that number the dead Vietnamese. And the bad guy is Putin? Do the numbers..
13
I have occasionally called the NYT editorial the propagandist for the US government and this insane editorial has proved it. Any reasonable and informed observer would be easily able to debunk the assertions made by this editorial as to what had happened in Ukraine and Syria that led to the current situation.
I've found this editorial distasteful, deliberately misinformed and beneath the journalistic standards that the NYT allegedly sets for itself.
I've found this editorial distasteful, deliberately misinformed and beneath the journalistic standards that the NYT allegedly sets for itself.
7
Should have had a NATO no fly zone over Syria a long time ago....Putin would have vetoed any action in the defective world body called the UN. Putin is a sociopath like Assad, his buddy. When sociopaths gain power people get murdered and these murders are rationalized and justified. That the world stands by when these democides happen is a great shame on the whole of humanity.
Putin is particularly dangerous for Russia, whose economy by now is barely equal to that of Spain. This man is a essentially a destroyer and Russia's impending collapse under his criminal policies bodes very ill for all of us. Can we imagine what a Syrian-style quagmire in Russia would mean for the world?
Oh come now. The US has done the same thing as Russia, so stop the moralizing.
I seem to remember that the US is the biggest bully around and it always putting pressure (i.e Blackmailing) countries to do whatever the US dictates.
Talk about killing civilians - we are pretty good at that although we always claim it was an accident. Remember the MSF Hospital in Afghanistan that we bombed back to the stone age. And lest we forget there was the Chinese Embassy in Serbia we took out and then claimed we had old maps of Belgrade.
Remember Iranian flight 655 that the US Navy shot out of the skies. That we said was an accident, gave the captain a medal, and then paid reparations on the quiet several years later.
Did we forget the civilians we killed in the Afghan war are those killed all over the middle east by Drone attacks. When we hear complaints we say our targeting was correct we killed the terrorists. They number in the thousands.
As for Bunker Buster bombs we have them too and used in the early time of the Afghan war.
Or how about the time we lied to the UN and used a resolution about a No Fly zone, to bring about regime Change in Libya. That was a Hillary Clinton show and should tell voters all they need to know about war mongers.
And how about all the countries we enter and change their borders - remember Sudan, Kosovo, Timor - we forcibly changed their borders. Our actions in Kosovo were especially ugly.
This editorial is the pot calling the kettle black
I seem to remember that the US is the biggest bully around and it always putting pressure (i.e Blackmailing) countries to do whatever the US dictates.
Talk about killing civilians - we are pretty good at that although we always claim it was an accident. Remember the MSF Hospital in Afghanistan that we bombed back to the stone age. And lest we forget there was the Chinese Embassy in Serbia we took out and then claimed we had old maps of Belgrade.
Remember Iranian flight 655 that the US Navy shot out of the skies. That we said was an accident, gave the captain a medal, and then paid reparations on the quiet several years later.
Did we forget the civilians we killed in the Afghan war are those killed all over the middle east by Drone attacks. When we hear complaints we say our targeting was correct we killed the terrorists. They number in the thousands.
As for Bunker Buster bombs we have them too and used in the early time of the Afghan war.
Or how about the time we lied to the UN and used a resolution about a No Fly zone, to bring about regime Change in Libya. That was a Hillary Clinton show and should tell voters all they need to know about war mongers.
And how about all the countries we enter and change their borders - remember Sudan, Kosovo, Timor - we forcibly changed their borders. Our actions in Kosovo were especially ugly.
This editorial is the pot calling the kettle black
11
This is the first time that I have seen the Russian internet trolls show up on the NY Times comment section in such force. I doubt the legitimacy of many posters on this subject. I understand that it costs a lot of money to moderate but if you see a bunch of one line equivocating posts, ie the US leaders are and were trying to inflict civilian casualties in Iraq for instance, then welcome to world of Yahoo conversations where Russia attempts to sway European and American society with their silly defenses of Russia's brutal and intrusive foreign policy.
Of course it is a joke, but if you read the editorial than their posts are an extension of Putin's putrefied hand into the west. Rotting fingertips to the keyboard so far...
Of course it is a joke, but if you read the editorial than their posts are an extension of Putin's putrefied hand into the west. Rotting fingertips to the keyboard so far...
4
It is comforting to know the bombs we have dropped on other nations over the last 60 years were legal.
10
For anyone familiar with the Cold War and the days of the old Soviet Union, Mr. Putin's behavior is hardly surprising.
In fact, he is playing straight by the old KGB Handbook of secrecy and stealth, in order to restore the Union back to its former glory days, which he admittedly still laments over.
His actions in Syria are mainly strategic, and not so much in support of Bashar al- Assad, as it involves maintaining Russian naval operations at Tartus, and much the same reasoning for annexing Crimea which also offers access to the sea.
It's safe to assume that territorial influence, if not expansionism, is never far from Mr. Putins thoughts. Even though the cost in human lives is horrific.
If indeed Russian military activity is behind bringing down that Malaysian airliner, and they are found to be guilty of committing war crimes by their onslaught in Aleppo, Mr. Putin will not be able to blame the West, which has always been his raison d'etre.
If he is the leader of any state, it is the state of denial.
In fact, he is playing straight by the old KGB Handbook of secrecy and stealth, in order to restore the Union back to its former glory days, which he admittedly still laments over.
His actions in Syria are mainly strategic, and not so much in support of Bashar al- Assad, as it involves maintaining Russian naval operations at Tartus, and much the same reasoning for annexing Crimea which also offers access to the sea.
It's safe to assume that territorial influence, if not expansionism, is never far from Mr. Putins thoughts. Even though the cost in human lives is horrific.
If indeed Russian military activity is behind bringing down that Malaysian airliner, and they are found to be guilty of committing war crimes by their onslaught in Aleppo, Mr. Putin will not be able to blame the West, which has always been his raison d'etre.
If he is the leader of any state, it is the state of denial.
2
If Russia is an outlaw state, why isn't the USA of the same designation? We are the most aggressive nation on the planet, unilaterally deciding to wage war in a half dozen countries in the Bush and Obama era since 9/11. We variously use troops, contractors, proxies, drones, and assassination squads: Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen, Libya, Syria -- what have I left out?
And of course we have a record of destabilizing dozens of countries going back to the 1950s. We have often preferred a repressive dictatorship over a democratically elected government if the dictator ship lets us build bases, exploit the resources, and buy our weapons.
And of course we have a record of destabilizing dozens of countries going back to the 1950s. We have often preferred a repressive dictatorship over a democratically elected government if the dictator ship lets us build bases, exploit the resources, and buy our weapons.
15
Well said!
1
I wonder to what extent Putin's recent actions in the Ukraine and Syria are motivated by an interest in influencing the American election. To the extent that he makes our present leaders look ineffectual, he supports the candidacy of Donald Trump, who plays on America's fears and asserts himself to be the stronger candidate when it comes to national security.
1
After the collapse of the Soviet Union, Russia had little choice but to sell commodities in the West for cash, a trade and dependency which continues today and mitigates against a new Cold War. Leaders in the West had options, to embrace and spend money to aid Russia's transition to more democratic state or to consolidate geopolitical gains despite Russian fears of encroachment. The West chose not to repeat the generous wisdom of the Marshall plan, leaving it primarily to businesses to invest in and exploit the new Russia.
Russian leaders made their own choices too, preferring top down rule over allowing the masses to hold real sovereignty. It is not really surprisingly these leaders now pursue nationalism over international cooperation, and destabilization of neighboring states over upholding international law.
While Western leaders have made some poor strategic choices, it is Russian leaders who have preferred outlaw behavior which now threatens international order. There is no ready remedy but an America which turns away from the world would leave things to become much worse.
Russian leaders made their own choices too, preferring top down rule over allowing the masses to hold real sovereignty. It is not really surprisingly these leaders now pursue nationalism over international cooperation, and destabilization of neighboring states over upholding international law.
While Western leaders have made some poor strategic choices, it is Russian leaders who have preferred outlaw behavior which now threatens international order. There is no ready remedy but an America which turns away from the world would leave things to become much worse.
3
Not only did Putin annex the Crimea, invade the Ukraine, and set up a military base in Syria while thumbing his nose at the US, then he really crossed the line!
He hacked into Dem emails, which led to the revelation that the Dem leadership was purposely shooting arrows at Bernie while already anointing Billary.
I mean, how low can Vlad go?
And after Barack told him, on an open mic, that he "only has one election left"!
Doesn't Mr. Putin have any regard for Barack's legacy?
Putin's behavior is definitely racist.
Can we get some muscle over here to exile him at least, in the name of political correctness?
Send him to a safe room.
He hacked into Dem emails, which led to the revelation that the Dem leadership was purposely shooting arrows at Bernie while already anointing Billary.
I mean, how low can Vlad go?
And after Barack told him, on an open mic, that he "only has one election left"!
Doesn't Mr. Putin have any regard for Barack's legacy?
Putin's behavior is definitely racist.
Can we get some muscle over here to exile him at least, in the name of political correctness?
Send him to a safe room.
4
Let me make myself clear.
Hillary Clinton is probably the second-worst presidential candidate in history (not because of a lack of experience but because she's just not very bright when it comes to politics in spite of her vast experience in politics).
(I could say Gary Johnson is second-worst, but who takes anything Gary "What's Aleppo?" Johnson seriously?)
And I base my conclusion about Clinton on the fact that Donald Trump is even close in the polls and that Trump-Putin 2016 Make Russia (and Iran and Syria) Great Again could take the White House.
Only one fraudulent outcome in one state (like Florida, e.g., where massive fraud in 2000 gave Bush a victory...that led to the Iraq disaster) could put Trump-Putin 2016 into the White House.
Hillary Clinton is probably the second-worst presidential candidate in history (not because of a lack of experience but because she's just not very bright when it comes to politics in spite of her vast experience in politics).
(I could say Gary Johnson is second-worst, but who takes anything Gary "What's Aleppo?" Johnson seriously?)
And I base my conclusion about Clinton on the fact that Donald Trump is even close in the polls and that Trump-Putin 2016 Make Russia (and Iran and Syria) Great Again could take the White House.
Only one fraudulent outcome in one state (like Florida, e.g., where massive fraud in 2000 gave Bush a victory...that led to the Iraq disaster) could put Trump-Putin 2016 into the White House.
It's time for the US and allies to start a massive humanitarian aid effort in Syria - rather like the Berlin airlift - with of course military protection - on the ground and in the air. Then take Putin an Assad to the international courts for crimes against humanity. Enough is enough!
What took the Times so long to cast Russia as a Outlaw State. Where is the criticism of Obama & Kerry in getting into bed with Putin in the Signing of the Iranian Nuclear deal, which permitted Iranian nuclear fuel to be sent to Russia.
Can you realistically work with an Outlaw State, & expect positive results.Obama & Kerry welcomed Russia’s help in defeating Isis, only Russia, bombed the Syrian Freedom fighters who were trying to outset Assad,but this did not deter Kerry or OBama, & once again kept into bed with Russia to have a cease fire in order to help the civilians of Allepo, which of course fell apart& now Russia is back to bombing civilians in Allepo, & has refused to work on a cease fire. How many times can you misjudge your decisions to work with Russia, before you decide that your dealing with an outlaw state. If Clinton loses to Trump, Obama must share part of the blame.
Can you realistically work with an Outlaw State, & expect positive results.Obama & Kerry welcomed Russia’s help in defeating Isis, only Russia, bombed the Syrian Freedom fighters who were trying to outset Assad,but this did not deter Kerry or OBama, & once again kept into bed with Russia to have a cease fire in order to help the civilians of Allepo, which of course fell apart& now Russia is back to bombing civilians in Allepo, & has refused to work on a cease fire. How many times can you misjudge your decisions to work with Russia, before you decide that your dealing with an outlaw state. If Clinton loses to Trump, Obama must share part of the blame.
1
Dictators do not care what the NYT thinks of them.
Nonsense!
Uncle sam is the dictator of the entire World.
Uncle sam is the dictator of the entire World.
And the US is...........? We arm rebels to destabilize states. We invade foreign sovereign nations. We kill those we want to kill with drones pretty much wherever we can. We eaves drop on our friends. We lock up a higher percentage of our own population than any other country.
Tell me again who is running an outlaw regime? Oh the irony!
Tell me again who is running an outlaw regime? Oh the irony!
20
How Putin could trust America if during the cease-fire Americans bombed Syrian Army that was fighting ISIL?
11
Editorial Board, it took you this long to recognise one very sick puppy, since 1999? Really?
2
It seems that Putin and Assad are no longer even using the pretense that they are combating ISIS. Their efforts are directed now almost exclusively against secular and al Qaeda- allied insurgents. The US. should no longer pretend that there's anything to be gained from bargaining with Moscow. We should instead focus on using bombing missions to help the Kurds and secular Sunni Arabs clear their homelands of ISIS forces, assuming we can ensure that civilian casualties will be limited. The partitioning of Syria is the only good thing that can come of all this.
6
Putin crashed a Russian made and recently Russian inspected and booby trapped Tupolev plane carrying the Polish president and 95 other important
government members in 2014. Where was NATO? He does what he likes and gets away with it because western leaders are impotent wimps.
government members in 2014. Where was NATO? He does what he likes and gets away with it because western leaders are impotent wimps.
1
Granted, Putin is the shrewdest, most dangerous politician today. However, if the US wants to defend any country threatened by Putin, it should not waist its resources and influence fighting for the horrible, neo fascist Ukraine.
6
This is really just the result of patriotism and nationalism run amok. Frankly, it happens everywhere. Considering how we illegally invaded Iraq, it also has happened here.
9
President Putin used the precedent created by the US and NATO in the case of Kosovo's illegal cession from Serbia. The support was given by the US and NATO for the first unilateral declaration of independence and to this day the US is supporting Kosovo in clear violation of international law, the UN Charter and the Helsinki Act. Mr. Putin even publicly said that he is using Kosovo as the example and precedent for the Crimea.
9
You seem to forgot the Serbian aggression and ethnic cleansing committed by them toward muslims after the first multi-party elections in 1990 held across Yugoslavia, except in Serbia and Montenegro. After Milosevic won in these two provinces, nationalist rhetoric took off and the wars started across the former Yugoslavia. The US and Nato intervened after years of brutal civil wars, triggered by the killing of 6000 boys and men at Srebenica.
1
he can also say he uses stalin as the example and precedent for his governance, but that doesn't improve it
Vladimir Putin's "make Russia great again" is a megalomania's dream very much like one of our own megalomania's dream to "make America great again".
Is it possible that those two dreams could clash and no one is "great again"?
Is it possible that those two dreams could clash and no one is "great again"?
10
"...one of five permanent members of the United Nations Security Council, his country shares a special responsibility to uphold international law."
Russia's, in fact any country's "permanent" membership to the UN needs to reconsidered. Such status can be misused by anyone or country. Change the rules so that any country's behavior can cause its removal from the UN by vote of course. If Putin wants to withdraw from the UN he'd only be isolating his country from the rest of the world.
Russia's, in fact any country's "permanent" membership to the UN needs to reconsidered. Such status can be misused by anyone or country. Change the rules so that any country's behavior can cause its removal from the UN by vote of course. If Putin wants to withdraw from the UN he'd only be isolating his country from the rest of the world.
1
Reckless, disingenuous, unsupported editorial. Totally unsurprising.
Let's start with your description of that Dutch report: "It uses strict standards of evidence and meticulously documents ... "
Yeah. That's exactly the type of verbiage you used for the 9/11 Commission Report. Pick any page of that if you want to get a good laugh.
And what about the ceasefire, the deal w Russia, the one the military openly opposed -- the NY Times saying nothing about that -- then days later that same military strikes the Syrian airbase at Deir el-Zour, killing at least 62 Syrian army troops, which paves the way for ISIS militants to advance in that same, fiercely contested area?
Speaking of 9/11, just heard Obama talking about the 9/11 lawsuit against Saudi Arabia, how he's opposed because it could lead to counter suits that would have a negative effect on "all the work we do."
All the work we do???
Ha ha ha ha ha. Our occupations around the world, you mean? The drone strikes? That work? There was some recent work in Afghanistan, the second bungled US airstrike in Afghanistan in a little over a week, 13 civilians killed, after a previous incident in which US forces tried to “rescue” Afghan police on the ground by blowing up their checkpoint and killing eight of them.
You can't believe a word you hear from Obama, or read in the NY Times. No wonder they're so enamored with each other.
Let's start with your description of that Dutch report: "It uses strict standards of evidence and meticulously documents ... "
Yeah. That's exactly the type of verbiage you used for the 9/11 Commission Report. Pick any page of that if you want to get a good laugh.
And what about the ceasefire, the deal w Russia, the one the military openly opposed -- the NY Times saying nothing about that -- then days later that same military strikes the Syrian airbase at Deir el-Zour, killing at least 62 Syrian army troops, which paves the way for ISIS militants to advance in that same, fiercely contested area?
Speaking of 9/11, just heard Obama talking about the 9/11 lawsuit against Saudi Arabia, how he's opposed because it could lead to counter suits that would have a negative effect on "all the work we do."
All the work we do???
Ha ha ha ha ha. Our occupations around the world, you mean? The drone strikes? That work? There was some recent work in Afghanistan, the second bungled US airstrike in Afghanistan in a little over a week, 13 civilians killed, after a previous incident in which US forces tried to “rescue” Afghan police on the ground by blowing up their checkpoint and killing eight of them.
You can't believe a word you hear from Obama, or read in the NY Times. No wonder they're so enamored with each other.
27
Europe has a legitimate stance to get more involved in the Syrian mess. The refugees coming to Europe are a direct result of Syria's Bashar al-Assad and Putin's seeming retaliation for sanctions by encouraging even more refugees to destabilize Europe. Putin helped murder innocent mostly Dutch/European citizens while invading Ukrainian territory (Crimea) and the eastern frontiers with Russia unapologetically using "illegal" (unmarked) Russian troops and weapons.
If Syria is not a NATO and a European humanitarian problem, then what is?
Are there no rules to remove an outlaw nation from the UN Security Council?
If Syria is not a NATO and a European humanitarian problem, then what is?
Are there no rules to remove an outlaw nation from the UN Security Council?
1
Oh, boy. The Russian apologists have come out of the woodwork on this one. I'm sure they studiously avoid reading op-ed pieces by Russian dissidents about Putin the Rodent. This is the same line that kept American communists enthralled about Stalin after he signed the non-aggression pact with Hitler.
15
Putin may be a rodent or even a snake.
But he is also the wolf that has eaten Obama's flock of sheep at will.
But he is also the wolf that has eaten Obama's flock of sheep at will.
When will this administration recognize that negotiating with Putin is like negotiating with Hitler? Putin will ignore any agreement when it is no longer advantageous to him.
Putin will be deterred from any action - whether in Ukraine, Syria, or elsewhere - only when the costs exceed the benefits. So far the US and the rest of the international community have not imposed any significant costs on Putin for his actions.
Putin will be deterred from any action - whether in Ukraine, Syria, or elsewhere - only when the costs exceed the benefits. So far the US and the rest of the international community have not imposed any significant costs on Putin for his actions.
10
The economic sanctions should be broadened and strengthened.
Our European allies are scared to take on Putin with his armies at their doorstep...
Primarily because they no longer trust that Obama will come to their aid.
But such is the price that they have had to pay for Obama's policy of apology and appeasement.
Primarily because they no longer trust that Obama will come to their aid.
But such is the price that they have had to pay for Obama's policy of apology and appeasement.
And when will the costs of US adventure in foreign lands exceed the benefits accruing to poor inner city citizens right here?
1
Until the Editorial Board calls for the investigation and prosecution of those responsible for bombing, invading and occupying Iraq and Afghanistan, its whinings about Russian violations of international law are egregiously hypocritical.
Cities reduced to rubble, millions of people displaced, hundreds of thousands killed or maimed, trillions of dollars wasted and the NY Times does not call for investigation and prosecution of the responsible persons. The well known leading perpetrator even gets a hug from Mrs. Obama.
The failure to bring the world's most obvious war criminals to justice obviates all references to "international law".
Cities reduced to rubble, millions of people displaced, hundreds of thousands killed or maimed, trillions of dollars wasted and the NY Times does not call for investigation and prosecution of the responsible persons. The well known leading perpetrator even gets a hug from Mrs. Obama.
The failure to bring the world's most obvious war criminals to justice obviates all references to "international law".
49
and Iraq and Afghanistan aren't even the first instances of egregious US violations.
2
It is good that that the New York Times should be raising political awareness. But it irresponsible to do this without a program teaching the population how to recognize edible plants.
3
Putin certainly moped the floor in Syria with Obama's face.
Obama blew it so badly there that I can't wait for his term to end and for him to be gone. In years to come I won't be buying any of his books, nor will I pay to attend any of his speeches -- the legally accepted way retired politicians enrich themselves after leaving office. He's dead to me, because of what Putin did to him in Syria.
I voted for him twice, sent money to his election campaigns twice. But he let Putin play him for a bloody fool -- literally allowed Putin to *#$%* him -- and that, for me, is inexcusable.
Obama blew it so badly there that I can't wait for his term to end and for him to be gone. In years to come I won't be buying any of his books, nor will I pay to attend any of his speeches -- the legally accepted way retired politicians enrich themselves after leaving office. He's dead to me, because of what Putin did to him in Syria.
I voted for him twice, sent money to his election campaigns twice. But he let Putin play him for a bloody fool -- literally allowed Putin to *#$%* him -- and that, for me, is inexcusable.
6
@singer
Typical gung-ho reaction from somebody who would either be unwilling or unable to be part of any troop action himself.
You should be only too glad that President Obama didn't commit this country to the conflict in Syria, which could all too easily escalate into a world war.
You need to get the facts first.
Obama is not the "fool".
Typical gung-ho reaction from somebody who would either be unwilling or unable to be part of any troop action himself.
You should be only too glad that President Obama didn't commit this country to the conflict in Syria, which could all too easily escalate into a world war.
You need to get the facts first.
Obama is not the "fool".
1
Let Mr Putin squander his treasure on empire.Like the US. Like the US ultimately he cannot keep it. His military industrial complex will create an economy like ours. Corrupt, bankrupt and useless to its own people.
What a cycle,what a testament.
The little rich boys incinerate ants with their magnifying glass and peasants slave.
What a cycle,what a testament.
The little rich boys incinerate ants with their magnifying glass and peasants slave.
5
Dear NYT reades, you'd better read other papers not that one only, which is prepaid to be anti Russian. Why Mr. Kerry and other your governmental officials don't want to investigate who attacked that UN convoy in Syria, why the Russian representatives were not included in the group of specialists trying to get to the truth of that plane shut down over Ukraine? The answer is here: Russians are guilty without being proved so, who needs the truth? No one, Putin is a tyrant and he is destroying all democratic and freedom principals the US is trying to place all over the world. Look, guys, look at Libia, at Irak, Afganistan. Look at those places where the american democracy helped people to be democratic, what do we have on the ruins of those former countries? ISIS, Al Nusra and other terrorist controlled and fed by CIA. The Russians are the ones who want stop ISIS from spreading over the world. Of course, it's obvious enough the US government does it's best including dirty propaganda to prevent Russians from terminating such a lovely kid of CIA and US military like ISIS is. Stop lying yourselves and stop thinking the US is empowered to be a policeman for the whole world.
20
Well to start, Columbus, two wrongs don't make a right. American initiatives are designed to promote democracy, as you said, despite the recent failure of those initiatives. On the contrary, Putin's actions are for the sole purpose of maintaining and expanding totalitarianism and his sphere of influence. Furthermore, he breaks international law without hesitation in an effort to achieve this objective.
Most Americans acknowledge the tragic error of invading Iraq, but the architect of that invasion, George Bush, had admirable long-term goals, i.e., freedom, peace and prosperity for the Iraqi people. Sadly, they have squandered their opportunity, though we share the blame.
You are wrong, Columbus, in trying to establish any kind of moral equivalency between the actions of Putin and American actions. Some of our actions are certainly regrettable but our intent was laudable.
Most Americans acknowledge the tragic error of invading Iraq, but the architect of that invasion, George Bush, had admirable long-term goals, i.e., freedom, peace and prosperity for the Iraqi people. Sadly, they have squandered their opportunity, though we share the blame.
You are wrong, Columbus, in trying to establish any kind of moral equivalency between the actions of Putin and American actions. Some of our actions are certainly regrettable but our intent was laudable.
Thank you for this comment. And please let us all know when freedom of the press is restored in Russia.
"Arab Spring" arrives in Syria, and Syria's president retaliates against protestors.
POTUS decides to draw a line in the sand, against the Syrian government, in a delusional desire to "help" the "Arab Spring".
Russia decides to assist its longtime ally, and does so.
Yet POTUS, and the NYT, refuse to explain why the US needs to help one group of jihadists kill another group of jihadists in an area of the world that the US has nearly never done anything right.
The "Arab Spring" record:
- Tunisia (no US "help"): Good
- Libya (US bombing): Bad
- Egypt (US diplomatic pressure): Bad
- Syria (US bombing): Bad
What a track record the US - all under the current POTUS - has. Time for a regime change.
POTUS decides to draw a line in the sand, against the Syrian government, in a delusional desire to "help" the "Arab Spring".
Russia decides to assist its longtime ally, and does so.
Yet POTUS, and the NYT, refuse to explain why the US needs to help one group of jihadists kill another group of jihadists in an area of the world that the US has nearly never done anything right.
The "Arab Spring" record:
- Tunisia (no US "help"): Good
- Libya (US bombing): Bad
- Egypt (US diplomatic pressure): Bad
- Syria (US bombing): Bad
What a track record the US - all under the current POTUS - has. Time for a regime change.
13
yes, like our track record there under any previous president was better
And imagine this was a Nobel peace winner to boot.
2
Food for thought. What department in the government orders these stuff?
8
It is beyond my lexicon of words or imagination to describe the suffering in Aleppo. What started as a need for freedom from oppression has come down to devastating butchery on the ground. There is no use to preach morale and decency to any concerned government in this conflict. Putin has been butchering Chechens, Georgians, Ukrainians, Syrians throughout his career. Americans have butchered Indians, Vietcong and Iraqis, Turks butchered Armenians, Jews have butchered Arabs, Arabs have butchered Jews, Germans gassed Jews, British butchered Zulus, Hutu butchered Tutsi, Muslims butcher Christians, Christians butcher Muslims, Muslims butcher Hindus, Hindus burn Muslims... Are we not humans more violent than meanest, deadliest predators on planet? Yes we are. We humans love to lie all the eternity about ourselves. We try to look so civilized and cultured and advanced, but we continue to butcher each-other. Who are we kidding? Ourselves? The U.N., the Geneva Convention, International Laws, Treaties, Human Rights, Declaration of Independence, everything is meaningless because everything is based on a lie. The lie is that we humans are inherently good. Guess what? We are not good, and we are not bad either. There is no good and bad, we are just monkeys who have learned to throw stones. We are at each other's throat from the beginning of time. Let's be honest to ourselves and admit that we humans have not changed a bit since the first monkey came down the trees and walked upright.
If Putin is charged with war Crimes how come Blair and Bush got off scott free?
37
Russia has again become the "evil empire" cited by Ronald Reagan.
3
Putin Derangement Syndrome infects this newspaper, it's as though they don't have access to any real information about Ukraine:
Here a Ukrainian woman tells a military recruiter from Kiev to take his lies back to his capital city so Ukrainian Russians can get on with their lives:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAQABuQUqMQ
Here a Ukrainian woman tells a military recruiter from Kiev to take his lies back to his capital city so Ukrainian Russians can get on with their lives:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAQABuQUqMQ
8
This editorial is of a piece with the saber rattling of the Washington consensus. Conditioning America for war with Russia requires monumental hypocrisy and finger pointing and the old good guy (US), bad guy (Russia) scenario. Just as in Iraq, this newspaper is leading the charge for more war. How about leading the charge for critiquing US foreign policy rather than championing it?
26
I thought I was reading about the US foreign policy here. Russia is small potatoes compared to what the US has done.
But keep marching out the red herrings.
But keep marching out the red herrings.
34
"Putin’s behavior in Ukraine and Syria violates not only rules designed to promote peace but common human decency."
Donald J. Trump's response: You had me at "Putin".
Donald J. Trump's response: You had me at "Putin".
3
Ok, the hard part is doing something about it, and that will never happen.
sure that the magnificent America was not an outlaw state in Iraqi and the gentle Lady that the time endorses for the presidential run did not vote for the extremely legal war in Iraqi. The problem with the moral is that always the moral of the other.
7
I wonder how history will judge US inaction regarding Russian brutality in Syria. The US studiously ignored the Rwandan genocide and then after the killing is over Clinton goes there to apologize. So sorry. True, Syria is more complex, but as things stand Putin can kill as many people as he wants except in a NATO country. Does not having the moral high ground mean the US can do nothing?
4
Human responsibility, IE- humility, goodness, kindness, do not mix well with business at the world-level.
Humanity and Business are like water and oil.
Put business aside for minute. Park your car and ride a bike, or walk to the store, or take public transportation, if you want a solution to the business part of this.
From the human side open your heart to those who are being killed and equate it to real blood spilling on real streets, and in the fields.
Each person killed (on both sides) will cause grief to their mothers and tears to fall.
Is Putin another Herod? Think about it with your heart.
Humanity and Business are like water and oil.
Put business aside for minute. Park your car and ride a bike, or walk to the store, or take public transportation, if you want a solution to the business part of this.
From the human side open your heart to those who are being killed and equate it to real blood spilling on real streets, and in the fields.
Each person killed (on both sides) will cause grief to their mothers and tears to fall.
Is Putin another Herod? Think about it with your heart.
1
the plight of Aleppo is reminiscent of what happened in Warsaw at the End of WWII when the Russians refused to aid the rebellion against the Nazis as an obvious move to eliminate the rebels by the Nazis -- who potentially could resist Stalin in his post War control of the region. i believe the NY times is correct in that President Putin has calculated that the United States will do nothing until the election. so they have about one month to eliminate the opposition and are really trying their hardest to do so. The United States must meet that challenge soon before the Rebels in Aleppo are eliminated.
1
An outlaw nation with nuclear weapons.
Let that sink in for a moment. I am sure most people don't give it a moment's thought or try not to, because if they did, their everyday life would be filled with angst.
The only thing we can hope for is that the world outlasts this strongman's life and that Russia can rebound with a little more democracy afterwards. I am hopeful, but my day is still filled with angst.
How about you ?
Let that sink in for a moment. I am sure most people don't give it a moment's thought or try not to, because if they did, their everyday life would be filled with angst.
The only thing we can hope for is that the world outlasts this strongman's life and that Russia can rebound with a little more democracy afterwards. I am hopeful, but my day is still filled with angst.
How about you ?
3
Anybody who makes the mistake that Putin is unique should read Timothy Snyder's "Bloodlands" (2012). The world needs another Stalin (who murdered more people than Hitler) like it needs another ebola epidemic. (Unless, of course, one thinks that "47%" of people are somehow "life unworthy of life" that should be gotten rid of at no cost.)
1
Tsarist Russia and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics have been a force for good mainly when fighting Germany in two world wars. Imperialism is the foreign policy of a paranoid people who resent their inferiority to their neighbors. Do not expect Putin's Russia to be any different, with cooperation possible only against a common enemy, not otherwise.
1
Even since we sent an invasion force to battle the bolsheviks in 1918 , the US has demonized the Soviet Union and Russia.
From placing missiles on their doorstep to regime changing the Ukraine (see Victoria Nuland) we constantly threaten Russia. Our imperial ambitions are what drive us-,we think that controlling the euro-Asian heartland, will give the US undisputed control of the world. Russia and China stand as impediments. This dream is a fantasy and may wind up destroying the world. US visions of exceptionalism and indispensability power our testerone dreams. Time to live in peace with the world.
From placing missiles on their doorstep to regime changing the Ukraine (see Victoria Nuland) we constantly threaten Russia. Our imperial ambitions are what drive us-,we think that controlling the euro-Asian heartland, will give the US undisputed control of the world. Russia and China stand as impediments. This dream is a fantasy and may wind up destroying the world. US visions of exceptionalism and indispensability power our testerone dreams. Time to live in peace with the world.
21
The west needs to impose more economic sanctions on Russia. We should not even consider a military response at this time, but we also need to do something.
3
We can no longer turn to a military force...
Obama has gutted the military to the point that we can no longer adequately respond.
...So Putin goes on tweaking the nose of Obama and the United States with a fair degree of immunity.
Obama has gutted the military to the point that we can no longer adequately respond.
...So Putin goes on tweaking the nose of Obama and the United States with a fair degree of immunity.
I guess I shouldn't have read this article after just finished Nineteen Eighty-Four a couple of days ago but this article is so helpful in giving example of perpetual war and Two minutes hate.
I expect another great piece from the Ministry of Truth tomorrow.
I expect another great piece from the Ministry of Truth tomorrow.
13
Nature abhors a vacuum. When a strong leader like Putin sees opportunity, he's going to pursue it. America's own fecklessness in global crises over the past several years have given incentive to people like Putin, Assad, ISIS, etc to pursue their own agendas with the full knowledge that the US will only do so much (or so little) to intervene.
When Obama draws a "red line" against the use of chemical weapons and then does nothing when they're used on civilians, this emboldens thugs like Putin and Assad. When Russia can invade a sovereign nation like Ukraine only to be met by rhetoric and flimsy sanctions from the West, this emboldens Putin and other leaders with territorial ambitions to do as they please - including providing advanced anti-aircraft weaponry, armor, and artillery systems to rebels fighting in eastern Ukraine - with little worry of repercussion.
Putin must let out a hearty laugh every time he hears that Obama is placing some new plan or military intervention "under consideration". Everyone knows that Obama won't do anything meaningful, Obama included. Yet our President continues with this "under consideration" charade with the full knowledge that more empty threats will only embolden Putin/Assad further. It's pathetic and feckless on America's part.
Obama thinks he can protect global stability and America's interests with sanctions and drone strikes, yet Putin/Russia has skin in the game and isn't afraid to get dirty.
When Obama draws a "red line" against the use of chemical weapons and then does nothing when they're used on civilians, this emboldens thugs like Putin and Assad. When Russia can invade a sovereign nation like Ukraine only to be met by rhetoric and flimsy sanctions from the West, this emboldens Putin and other leaders with territorial ambitions to do as they please - including providing advanced anti-aircraft weaponry, armor, and artillery systems to rebels fighting in eastern Ukraine - with little worry of repercussion.
Putin must let out a hearty laugh every time he hears that Obama is placing some new plan or military intervention "under consideration". Everyone knows that Obama won't do anything meaningful, Obama included. Yet our President continues with this "under consideration" charade with the full knowledge that more empty threats will only embolden Putin/Assad further. It's pathetic and feckless on America's part.
Obama thinks he can protect global stability and America's interests with sanctions and drone strikes, yet Putin/Russia has skin in the game and isn't afraid to get dirty.
5
Obama is "weak" because killing civilians goes against his conscience. No we're not perfect, but thank heavens for the few with morals. It's a flame in a windstorm, but it is a flame.
Will this soften Trumps "bromance" with Putin? I wonder how any American can take a Presidential candidate seriously who stated the he admires "the firm grip" that Putin has on his people. We know that Putin, ex KGB member, renounced communism and put on his Orthodox cross, is an authoritative leader who although elected by his people has much in common with his communist predecessors. His opponents have been killed or jailed. Very scary that Americans would favor such a candidate for their head of state.
I feel a severe pre-winter chill every time I consider even the remote possibility of Putin and Trump at the helm of the world's two nuclear super powers. Is the citizenry of both countries descending into utter madness…
2
What happened to Secretary Clintons Russian reset? I am hoping that during one of these debates we can get beyond emails and ISIS to discuss some of the real strategic geopolitical risks facing the U.S. including Mr. Putin and China's annexation of the South China Sea. Post WW2 the U.S. lead the creation of the Western Democratic system and continued over the years to build a global trade system which has resulted in unprecedented peace and prosperity for so many. This system is under threat and we need to know what Mr. trump and Mrs. Clinton will do about it
Putin is a troublemaker, and a bully. He knows that the US will not do much to get involved in another conflict. He is a dictator that changes uniform from president to prime minister and back, just to be in power.
I can't look at his face because it reminds me the Soviet Union.
I can't look at his face because it reminds me the Soviet Union.
This is not to defend Vladimir Putin and his government. My point is not that two wrongs make anything right. But the U.S. policies around the world from selling arms to Saudi Arabia to regime changes in Syria and Livia have also contributed enormously to suffering around the world. After the Iraq experience the U.S. is reluctant to put boots on the ground in Syria but bombings and supply of arms that eventually make their way to ISIS do not diminish suffering in that country. Let's recognize one thing: The Soviet Union collapsed in 1991. From that time on the United States has been the only superpower in the world and it has miserably failed to make this world a better place. And the blame does not lie exclusively with George Bush and the Republicans. The policy of regime change under Obama and Secretary Clinton has increased the suffering in the world equally if not more than President Bush's decision to invade Iraq (supported then by Senator Clinton). So please stop moralizing and pointing fingers at others.
13
Russia, with its puny economy, ought to be replaced as a permanent member of the security council and stripped of its veto power.
2
Sure buddy, I'm sure replacing it with a US stooge would go well.
Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump both aim to make their respective countries great again. Both use the same bullying tactics and share a disregard for the rule of law and human rights. Putin's actions tarnish Russia's image and may very well bring additional sanctions upon Russia which will only hurt the people of Russia. Trump's behavior and policies will have a similar negative impact on the United States and the the American People. We need to sanction Russia and not elect Trump.
1
And the executives in finance, business, and politics (and all their weak, selfish, cowardly and disgusting enablers and sycophants), including the wealthy, in this country are doing the same thing here. Destroying people and a country can be done economically, and many other ways, that are more devastating than from the barrels of guns. There is no leadership in this country, only greed and corruption that is allowed by a lazy, naive, do-nothing, public.
3
Putin is playing the power game by using strong force, air-missiles against the little guys in Syria, Ukraine, and Malaysia and continuing to put the blame on Ukraine. Even with accusations of war crimes Putin will fight using his power as Security Council. We need to find a way to balance the power in a safe, responsible way for the good of the world.
2
I am old enough to remember drills where the kids in my Catholic School were led into the hallways to put our heads between our knees (or to duck under our desks) to protect us from the nuclear bombs that Russia was sure to rain down on us sometime. How naive we were.
Then eventually the cold war ended and the threat of nuclear war was put on the back burner. But yet we keep our enormous nuclear arsenal with multi billion dollar plans to "modernize" it.
We bomb the hospitals of doctors without borders, invade sovereign countries under the guise of humanitarian aid, fund and weaponize the "good" rebels - we aren't even sure of who we're funding or whose side they're on.
The U.S. put an end to the recent, short-lived cease fire. Generals in the Pentagon have defied president Obama's wishes. How dare they.
Let's stop demonizing Putin and Russia. We have weapons lined up close to Russia's borders. Look at how the U.S. reacted when Russia's missiles were found in Cuba. It almost started WWIII. Will the military never learn? And the overblown military budget has been raised yet again. Billions more for WAR. Meanwhile, roads, schools, bridges, healthcare - you name it gets the shaft here.
Then eventually the cold war ended and the threat of nuclear war was put on the back burner. But yet we keep our enormous nuclear arsenal with multi billion dollar plans to "modernize" it.
We bomb the hospitals of doctors without borders, invade sovereign countries under the guise of humanitarian aid, fund and weaponize the "good" rebels - we aren't even sure of who we're funding or whose side they're on.
The U.S. put an end to the recent, short-lived cease fire. Generals in the Pentagon have defied president Obama's wishes. How dare they.
Let's stop demonizing Putin and Russia. We have weapons lined up close to Russia's borders. Look at how the U.S. reacted when Russia's missiles were found in Cuba. It almost started WWIII. Will the military never learn? And the overblown military budget has been raised yet again. Billions more for WAR. Meanwhile, roads, schools, bridges, healthcare - you name it gets the shaft here.
91
Georgia K, It's a jungle out there and the rule of survival of the fittest still rules. Was it okay for Russia to have missiles in Cuba? We cover greed as "national interests" and so does Russia and so does China. This is human nature and it won't change until something really dreadful happens; bombing civilians is pretty dreadful, but only something on the magnitude of a national catastrophe will knock sense into humans. Until then, learn to live with what you were dealt with. There's always religion to make you feel good, but human nature corrupted that too.
This post comes directly via St. Petersburg
1
Many of these comments seek to normalize Russia's actions, comparing or equating them to those of the US. However, the fundamental difference is that, unlike Russia, the US holds lofty ideals for itself and its role in the world, or at least we should. For ordinary Soviet citizens, including my parents, the US was, in fact, a city on a hill, a beacon of hope for a life of freedom. Has the US failed at various points in history to live up to its own principles? Of course. However, I hope we, the people, and our leaders haven't completely lost our commitment to the principles established by the founding fathers.
Putin's guiding principle, on the other hand, is to reestablish the power once held by the Soviet Union, where discussions such as these most certainly would not be taking place. As Timothy Snyder points out in a NYT op-ed piece from 9/20, the philosophy that drives Putin is one that subverts democracy. His actions aren't just those of another political leader hoping to make gains for his country and his people, they are those of a dictator who has no regard for the basic human rights of people in his own country or elsewhere. Self-criticism is an important first step in improving our country. However, let's not allow our self-criticism to take the focus away from the danger Putin poses to the world. He promotes chaos and destruction to undermine the democratic process and establish his own authoritarian, kleptocratic world order.
Putin's guiding principle, on the other hand, is to reestablish the power once held by the Soviet Union, where discussions such as these most certainly would not be taking place. As Timothy Snyder points out in a NYT op-ed piece from 9/20, the philosophy that drives Putin is one that subverts democracy. His actions aren't just those of another political leader hoping to make gains for his country and his people, they are those of a dictator who has no regard for the basic human rights of people in his own country or elsewhere. Self-criticism is an important first step in improving our country. However, let's not allow our self-criticism to take the focus away from the danger Putin poses to the world. He promotes chaos and destruction to undermine the democratic process and establish his own authoritarian, kleptocratic world order.
3
It's interesting how righteous the U.S can pretend to be at times. Allied forces' drone strikes have killed over 300 or more innocent civilians, bombing hospitals and medical clinics (by 'accident') several times. The last time I looked, war is war - Russia is engaged with the Ukraine (which was being run by one of the most corrupt politicians in Europe). Putin is no better, but don't think were not as guilty of war crimes as he is.
1
This has been obvious for quite some time. The crimes against humanity, especially in Syria, but not the sole case, are a more recent development in the trend. Putin & Assad will have their day in the Hague. The design of the security council is fatally flawed. Trump is a Putin "wanna be". Pretty scary scenario, Trump as president.
1
The US position on Syria, as articulated by Kerry, is a non-starter for the Russians.
The US is demanding that we have the right to continue to arm rebels opposing Assad and pursue our goal of regime change.
Our position is extremely weak in Syria and the best we can seem to do is to hand out arms willy nilly to any sketchy group that assures us they will use them against Assad.
Of course, our belligerence and recklessness is the primary cause of the refugee crisis. How sweet of Hillary to pretend to want to solve the refugee crisis by exporting the Syrian population. To the US.
Russia will now turn the screws on the rebels and their infrastructure and there is nothing the US can do about it.
We wreck the Syrian's country, create chaos in the region, and end up with mud on our face and an empty wallet.
Hillary is dangerous and incompetent.
The US is demanding that we have the right to continue to arm rebels opposing Assad and pursue our goal of regime change.
Our position is extremely weak in Syria and the best we can seem to do is to hand out arms willy nilly to any sketchy group that assures us they will use them against Assad.
Of course, our belligerence and recklessness is the primary cause of the refugee crisis. How sweet of Hillary to pretend to want to solve the refugee crisis by exporting the Syrian population. To the US.
Russia will now turn the screws on the rebels and their infrastructure and there is nothing the US can do about it.
We wreck the Syrian's country, create chaos in the region, and end up with mud on our face and an empty wallet.
Hillary is dangerous and incompetent.
3
Did anyone honestly believe that this report, over which the present government of Ukraine had veto power, would come to another conclusion. Previously it had stated that MH17 was brought down by a BUK missile, which only the Ukraine military possessed. Now we are told that the missile and launcher went from Russia to Ukraine and back again, all under the watchful eye of US spy satellites which were heavily deployed in the region. Yet it. has been over two years during which this administration has failed to produce the satellite images which would support such a finding. An explanation needs to be coming from the White House. Furthermore, the administration continues to refer to the "Russian invasion of Crimea" when it knows that no troops crossed an international boundary,marking a first in recorded history., Again, satellite imagery could sustain the accusation, but apparently the White House believes that simply repeating that charge over and over is sufficient.
4
I grew up near a tree planted to commemorate the fall of Sevastopol. A lot of men from my area fought in the Crimea. Russian greatness was usually contained within its own borders. Annexation of the Crimea was an effort to expand Russian control of an outlet to the Mediterranean and beyond. But it was the clash of Stalin with the existential threat of Hitler that showed us real Russian might. After that, Russia’s real enemy was practical economy. Putin resents the self-inflicted wounds his motherland suffered as a result of Stalinism. His reactions may seem erratic. He needs to be contained patiently, and where he breaks out, he needs to be pushed back. He has lots of living-room where at home. Maybe we can guarantee him a base on the Med, which is a long-standing wish of his country’s leaders. But we need to heed his callous murderous efforts to make the Middle East a Russian province.
2
We did leave him his Mediterranean base in Syria. It apparently wasn't enough.
I chuckle mightily at the notion that the officials of an undefeated nation state can be meaningfully charged with war crimes. Or that a nation of Russia's size and strength can ever be called outlaw. But then, such a charge is just rhetorical framing for what seems suspiciously like planned Clinton intervention Syria.
2
The coming showdown between "rule of law" countries and "rule of man" countries is fast approaching.
Each country will have to decide which group it wants to belong to.
The West made a conscious decision to make a sharp turn toward amoral mercantilism after we "won" the Cold War. Our political leaders of all stripes willingly handed the wheel of the ship of state to business interests.
That decision is looking worse and worse.
Each country will have to decide which group it wants to belong to.
The West made a conscious decision to make a sharp turn toward amoral mercantilism after we "won" the Cold War. Our political leaders of all stripes willingly handed the wheel of the ship of state to business interests.
That decision is looking worse and worse.
3
The United States has made poor judgment calls in the past. But some of these postings are offensive. The US bailed Europe out of two world wars and although we have some issues, if you think we shouldn't be evaluating Putin and Assad's behavior from a moral point of view, then who should? Don't like being criticized by the US? Too bad. We acknowledge our shortcomings and that's a lot more than some of the countries included in some of these posts ever even consider. Yes, we do have a lot of people in jail here, but the human rights argument is empty and shallow. The US is an open society and with these freedoms come a price. If any of the countries referenced in some of the postings here had any of the freedoms we enjoy in the US, the entire population would be incarcerated. We don't KILL the political opposition here like what takes place in Russia. We don't meddle in other countries affairs to the extent of some of the other countries referenced here. We do use our influence to steer other countries toward democracy which sometimes can be a mistake, but don't ever think living in Saudi Arabia or Russia, or Afghanistan or North Korea, or Iran can EVER be compared to the freedoms of living in the United States. We're still the best country on the planet and in spite of our shortcomings and mistakes I see no other country that can even come close to what we stand for. So take it easy on us. No country is perfect, but we're working on it.
2
Evaluating Putin's and Assad's behavior? Sure.
However, destroying countless Middle East countries and claiming because we are a democracy that makes destroying other people's lives acceptable is dangerous thinking.
Attacking Iraq, Libya, etc.. is not a shortcoming. It is a war crime.
Your comment suggests that democracy is a ticket to savage other countries/societies. It is not. Such thinking is the same displayed by religious fundamentalists who thought their way of life justifies making others suffer.
However, destroying countless Middle East countries and claiming because we are a democracy that makes destroying other people's lives acceptable is dangerous thinking.
Attacking Iraq, Libya, etc.. is not a shortcoming. It is a war crime.
Your comment suggests that democracy is a ticket to savage other countries/societies. It is not. Such thinking is the same displayed by religious fundamentalists who thought their way of life justifies making others suffer.
1
First; Assad is a Devil killing his own people and destroying his own nation.
Second; Russia has vital military bases in Syria, the naval base on the Mediterranean, and the airbase reinforced this last year.
Third; Assad is serving the interests of Russia, not his own people and nation.
Putin is a spy, former K.G.B. Is anyone really surprised that the Russian Spymaster has turned his nation into a military empire? Military Empires do military things.
The Russians admire their leader.
I now hold it against the entire nation of Russia because of that, not just the leader.
What is the greater good? To enter the conflict or save the people?
Save the people, Save the Refugees even more than we have been doing.
Show the world that we are good and do good deeds, not just another reactionary military force in search of a war to fight.
Second; Russia has vital military bases in Syria, the naval base on the Mediterranean, and the airbase reinforced this last year.
Third; Assad is serving the interests of Russia, not his own people and nation.
Putin is a spy, former K.G.B. Is anyone really surprised that the Russian Spymaster has turned his nation into a military empire? Military Empires do military things.
The Russians admire their leader.
I now hold it against the entire nation of Russia because of that, not just the leader.
What is the greater good? To enter the conflict or save the people?
Save the people, Save the Refugees even more than we have been doing.
Show the world that we are good and do good deeds, not just another reactionary military force in search of a war to fight.
3
The United States needs to abandon any hope of a diplomatic solution and stop being afraid of a direct military confrontation with Russia. Impose an immediate No-Fly zone over Syria and start shooting Russian and Syrian aircraft that are murdering innocent civilians.
Russia needs to be put in its place now, or the United States will continue to be a diminished power. Russia is too smart to escalate any military confrontation over Syria by expanding to further threats in Europe or Asia.
Russia and Putin need to be punched in the face. Now is the time.
Russia needs to be put in its place now, or the United States will continue to be a diminished power. Russia is too smart to escalate any military confrontation over Syria by expanding to further threats in Europe or Asia.
Russia and Putin need to be punched in the face. Now is the time.
This is the criminal Donald Trump not only supports and defends but to whom it is likely he is beholden. The short-fingered sociopath's closeness to Putin is more than mere affinity (although that's bad enough). It is based on business ties both in Russian and this country -- present projects financed by, and future projects to be financed by, Russian financing. Elect Trump and we can look forward to a foreign policy that gives support and comfort to a war criminal.
2
Sirs,
A lot of this has easy assessments. Humanity is brutal. We are animals with sophisticated means of killing. We only need reasons.
But sanity says that stability comes through clarity of intent and commonality of goals. Russia under Mr. Putin is indeed brutal, but the rest of the world has not engaged predictably with Russia to not be a party to the chaos.
"Victory" in the Cold War devastated Russia. It was already a difficult country. Western engagement - for all its apparent sympathy and support - failed to help Russians through the brutal 90s. Mr. Yeltsin did not help matters either. Mr. Putin merely filled a gap.
This is not to say that America, for all its internal faults, did not do many things right. But it would never have been enough.
Without going into a lengthy assessment of what went wrong, suffice it to say that Russian primacy and pride, has been shaken enough for its leader to think that it can be restored by brutality.
Russia _could_ be a perfect state. Just as South Africa or Japan or Tunisia could be a perfect state. But Mr. Putin is a creature of his experiences. And unless he lives to be a 120, his bluster will come to a bad end.
Democracy is messy. But, as America has learned, without civility in its implementation, it can destabilize a smaller country. Unless Russia, with or without Mr. Putin, builds institutions capable of defending its strength, it will permanently require harsh methods.
A lot of this has easy assessments. Humanity is brutal. We are animals with sophisticated means of killing. We only need reasons.
But sanity says that stability comes through clarity of intent and commonality of goals. Russia under Mr. Putin is indeed brutal, but the rest of the world has not engaged predictably with Russia to not be a party to the chaos.
"Victory" in the Cold War devastated Russia. It was already a difficult country. Western engagement - for all its apparent sympathy and support - failed to help Russians through the brutal 90s. Mr. Yeltsin did not help matters either. Mr. Putin merely filled a gap.
This is not to say that America, for all its internal faults, did not do many things right. But it would never have been enough.
Without going into a lengthy assessment of what went wrong, suffice it to say that Russian primacy and pride, has been shaken enough for its leader to think that it can be restored by brutality.
Russia _could_ be a perfect state. Just as South Africa or Japan or Tunisia could be a perfect state. But Mr. Putin is a creature of his experiences. And unless he lives to be a 120, his bluster will come to a bad end.
Democracy is messy. But, as America has learned, without civility in its implementation, it can destabilize a smaller country. Unless Russia, with or without Mr. Putin, builds institutions capable of defending its strength, it will permanently require harsh methods.
1
As if Obama cares about peace for the average person in these countries. Obama is fighting and killing for his ill defined principals but he does not fight and kill at the request or consent of the people who bleed and die. It was Obama (Biden) who encouraged the corrupt government in Kiev to declare war on its own citizens in the east of Ukraine. It was Putin, who risked international condemnation and sanctions, that saved at least the population of Crimea from a destructive and deadly civil war now churning away in the Donbass.
If Russia is an "outlaw nation" then so is USA. Prior to the Syrian civil war there were over 16,000 Russians living in Syria. Obama expects these people to be abandoned? President of the USA Ronald Reagan invaded Grenada to save a few hundred American medical students, which was a blatant violation of international law.
The NYT editorial board are cowards. They are afraid to even exercise their constitutional rights to contradict the government. No classified government information needed.
If Russia is an "outlaw nation" then so is USA. Prior to the Syrian civil war there were over 16,000 Russians living in Syria. Obama expects these people to be abandoned? President of the USA Ronald Reagan invaded Grenada to save a few hundred American medical students, which was a blatant violation of international law.
The NYT editorial board are cowards. They are afraid to even exercise their constitutional rights to contradict the government. No classified government information needed.
7
Damning report on Russia's evil actions, throwing stones (weapons of mass destruction, actually) and then hiding the hand. That the ex-KGB agent, now dictator Putin, is a thug leaves no doubts, but it is mighty difficult to understand no worldwide response to stop this outrage, this abuse of power; and worse, apparent impunity for the perpetrators, not that different from fanatic extremists seeking to destroy law and order, and, as you stated, even the appearance of decency. That criminal Assad is allowed to continue to slaughter his own people, so indiscriminately that even hospitals are targeted, is impossible to understand...without a proper response. Whenever there is institutionalized violence, it seems right and just to respond with like force, lest we become complicit in the horrors of the daily massacres, and the purposely planned starving of the population. No more meetings or proclamations of outrage please. We need action, and 'pronto'. Hello Mr. Obama, hope you are listening, no more nice guy, no more complacency, nor hypocrisy by looking the other way, while millions of our fellow men, women, and children are suffering, and dying, for no good reason nor logic. Russia and Syria and Iran need an ultimatum as if we mean it, to stop the carnage...and our shame.
Mr. Putin's "behavior" is a direct response to America's imperialism, hegemony, "exclusiveness" and "exceptionalism". By controlling the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund, the USA has strong armed European countries into supporting it's efforts to take control of the world. We fight never ending wars against "communism", "terrorism" etc, when in reality it is our meddling, interfering and war crimes that cause reactions against us. Mr. Putin is a Russian, and if we taught history in an unbiased way to our students they would be aware of the fact that Russia has never, nor will ever allow themselves to be pushed around. We stoked up the trouble in the Ukraine, and in Georgia. We are trying to get the Slavic nations near Russia to allow us to put in military and nuclear weaponry to coerce Russia into being a lap dog. It ain't gonna happen. Hitler and Bonaparte found that out, just as 11 US Presidents found out they were not going to kill off Castro. Manifest Destiny never died in America. Super Patriotic Puritanical ideas still permeate our American psyche. We have assassinated democratically elected leaders in other countries because they represented a threat to our capitalist interests. We have ethnically cleansed Native Americans, & enslaved Africans long after other nations quit & we railroaded labor leaders trying to improve the conditions of women and children and immigrants. We are the poster child for "outlaw".
13
I had heard of the Russian internet troll machine, but never saw it in action until the comments on this critique. Has the US made foreign policy mistakes? No doubt. Do we have a dubious history of foreign intervention and destablization? Yes. Have our troops engaged in massacres in our history? Yes. All that stipulated changes the crux of this argument not one iota. Russia is abetting a slaughter in Syria, has annexed its neighbor's territory, at a minimum has created the conditions where an airliner has been shot from the sky, and is using the internet to interfere in American public discourse and democracy. If the US were serious we could prevent the engagement of Russian citizens and businesses in our banking and real estate markets and work with our allies to do the same.
135
Erik,
US destruction is considered a "mistake" but everyone else is a slaughter. This is the lack of self reflection that harms the US.
In your mind destroying Libya and Iraq were just "mistakes". Let's ask the victims if they think the same.
US destruction is considered a "mistake" but everyone else is a slaughter. This is the lack of self reflection that harms the US.
In your mind destroying Libya and Iraq were just "mistakes". Let's ask the victims if they think the same.
4
Don't you know - Laws and rules weren't meant for Mr. Putin, mass-murderer Assad, Turkey's Erdogan, or The Con Don. Laws and rules create civil societies and they do not want civil societies. They just want their outsize egos stroked no matter the cost. They are a scourge on society and humanity. They are male sociopaths ruled by testosterone.
The world will not change until socially conscious women step up and take over one-half the power in the world to add some balance and stop the neathandral male-fueled hate-anger-fear-war mentality that is endangering OUR world and lives.
The world will not change until socially conscious women step up and take over one-half the power in the world to add some balance and stop the neathandral male-fueled hate-anger-fear-war mentality that is endangering OUR world and lives.
9
So when Hilary bombs Libya and destroys it that is a moral act?
Violence is not restricted to one gender.
Violence is not restricted to one gender.
Yes we need socially conscious women like the one who spouted: we came, we saw, he died ha ha ha, and the resulting chaos has spawned ISIS, beheadings, millions of refugees. what a fine example of social consciousness.
Ever since the Spanish-American War at least, the United States has considered it has a right to invade foreign countries if we consider they need saving - whether they want it or not. Sometimes it has resulted in imperial land grabs as in the case of Hawaii and Philippines (in the name of civilizing our little brown brothers), always it has resulted in many deaths of the people we are "saving".
In modern times we have invaded Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and now are bombing Syria - we have been at war for over ten years. We also don't accept the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court.
So from the perspective of Russia we are the pot calling the kettle black. Russia at least has legitimate historical interests in Ukraine and Crimea. Yeltsin was forced to accept the breakup of the Soviet Union to avoid conflict with some of the Republics in order to complete the end of communism. Ukraine was part of Russia for three hundred years and Crimea was a gift to UKraine made by Khrushchev in 1954. Russia had long term relations with Syria which it considers in its sphere of influence. What historic ties do we have with Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria to justify unilateral intervention? The Pax Americana is just the same old naked imperialism and, as in the case of the Philippines, it has spawned a deadly terrorist movement.
In modern times we have invaded Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and now are bombing Syria - we have been at war for over ten years. We also don't accept the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court.
So from the perspective of Russia we are the pot calling the kettle black. Russia at least has legitimate historical interests in Ukraine and Crimea. Yeltsin was forced to accept the breakup of the Soviet Union to avoid conflict with some of the Republics in order to complete the end of communism. Ukraine was part of Russia for three hundred years and Crimea was a gift to UKraine made by Khrushchev in 1954. Russia had long term relations with Syria which it considers in its sphere of influence. What historic ties do we have with Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria to justify unilateral intervention? The Pax Americana is just the same old naked imperialism and, as in the case of the Philippines, it has spawned a deadly terrorist movement.
20
The Times editors' discussion about "rogue states" and "war crimes" would carry more authority if they had not approved of the completely unjustified and illegal invasion of Iraq.
As the editorial says, the Syrian rebels have been "backed by the United States". How is that backing more legal than Russia's backing of Assad? The Obama administration prudently resisted committing major forces to the civil war, but the Times editors seem to be working up to recommending such commitment - or perhaps approving it regretfully post-facto.
Putin is a politician who consolidates his internal position partly by calculated aggression against other countries. US politicians do the same thing, and are frequently abetted by newspaper editorialists and columnists.
As the editorial says, the Syrian rebels have been "backed by the United States". How is that backing more legal than Russia's backing of Assad? The Obama administration prudently resisted committing major forces to the civil war, but the Times editors seem to be working up to recommending such commitment - or perhaps approving it regretfully post-facto.
Putin is a politician who consolidates his internal position partly by calculated aggression against other countries. US politicians do the same thing, and are frequently abetted by newspaper editorialists and columnists.
41
Putin is Russia. Sadly his "unconscionable behavior" has turned his country "into an outlaw nation." He has exploited Obama's unwillingness to intervene in Syria to boost its internationa profile at America's expense, showcasing its military might and strategic ingenuity. Last October he insisted that military victory in Syria was not Russia's real objective, saying there had to be a parallel diplomatic path to push for a grand settlement, involving global players like Russia and the US, regional powers like Iran and Saudi Arabia. But it's just hypocrisy.
Putin has rescued the Assad regime from collapsing. But he shouldn't believe that Assad could survive without Iran and Russia. The Alawites are a minority in the region, and won't have enough human resources to fight a protracted war. The Sunnis won't let Assad get away with murder. With oil prices well below $50 a barrel, how long can Iran and Russia stand by Assad?
Obama may leave office with an unfinished business in Syria. Putin remains in power, but he gets stuck in a nonstarter. Let the Sunni Arab states take care of him.
Putin has rescued the Assad regime from collapsing. But he shouldn't believe that Assad could survive without Iran and Russia. The Alawites are a minority in the region, and won't have enough human resources to fight a protracted war. The Sunnis won't let Assad get away with murder. With oil prices well below $50 a barrel, how long can Iran and Russia stand by Assad?
Obama may leave office with an unfinished business in Syria. Putin remains in power, but he gets stuck in a nonstarter. Let the Sunni Arab states take care of him.
8
Why do you think the war will be protracted? The rebels are not strong and if they were not backed by foreign countries, the war would be over long time ago. I am not sure that all Syrian Sunni against Assad. Actually, I heard that moderate Sunni preffer Assad to Sunni religious fanatics, who fills Syrian opposition.
If Russia under Putin's command becomes violator of international law and an unlawful state for bombings in Syria and invasion on Ukraine, what about the US under the command of George Bush that invaded Iraq, sacked Sandra from the authority and executed him at will? All this in clear violation of the UN charter and international law?
69
"sacked Sandra" in comment be read as "sacked Saddam".
Sorry, but the "YOU TOO" argument isn't going to cut it, especially when India and Pakistan are to blame for millions of dead.
1
pot calling kettle is the big problem. It would help if MSM dug a bit more before putting out propaganda style boilerplates like Crimea is the first European state's to be wrenched away by violence since Hitler. Because factually that is not true. KOSOVO was. Clinton used bombs to rip it out of Serbia. Moscow bombed no one for Crimea.
More digging is needed too in the Aleppo battle. It is not about negotiations. It is in a direct line of military decisiveness from Stalingrad through Grozny. Attrition to victory.
We need more digging into who, like those behind Nusra and Daesh, fed the flames back in Chechnya. It looks much like the Afghan Op. The group that won in Chechnya are in the Kremlin, and may well have researched that event in Chechnya to the point they blame US black ops, and the administration which greenlighted them.
Something to consider carefully before Nov 8...
More digging is needed too in the Aleppo battle. It is not about negotiations. It is in a direct line of military decisiveness from Stalingrad through Grozny. Attrition to victory.
We need more digging into who, like those behind Nusra and Daesh, fed the flames back in Chechnya. It looks much like the Afghan Op. The group that won in Chechnya are in the Kremlin, and may well have researched that event in Chechnya to the point they blame US black ops, and the administration which greenlighted them.
Something to consider carefully before Nov 8...
1
Nations sending arms to Countries to be used to kill innocent civilians constitutes an "Outlaw State." We are partners in crime with the Russians, as the largest arms dealer in the World.
Has the NYT's Editorial Board ever heard of Yemen. Google it and see what our bombs supplied to Saudi Arabia are doing to their citizens.
Not excusing Russia's behavior. Just pointing out the ever present hypocrisy we live with.
Has the NYT's Editorial Board ever heard of Yemen. Google it and see what our bombs supplied to Saudi Arabia are doing to their citizens.
Not excusing Russia's behavior. Just pointing out the ever present hypocrisy we live with.
164
Life's pretty good in the Fifth Column, right?
2
Putin's Regime, as horrible as its, does not aim to rearrange countries, societies and regimes as US is trying to do through economic blackmail and military might with close to 800 bases worldwide and $7 trillion on war making over 15 years. Putin would negotiate and coexist with anyone based on favorable commercial terms.
On the other hand, what we have been doing is violation of UN Charter, International law in most cases, and the means we choose would be violations of US law. The refuge creation is entirely our creation. Afgani regime has allowed exploding poppy production under our tutelage, as just one example. We think we have precision in intelligence and technology, we clearly don't, we blown away hospitals and cannot be certain of the loyalty of tyrants we support.
And what are our interests? Are they legitimate? The exlusive monopoly to drill for natural gas in someone's backyard or get a no-bid highway construction contract can be (chances are, will be) contested by any state, it would violations of existing anti-trust laws within our borders or in the EU.
We are impoverishing peoples wherever we have intervened and impoverishing ourselves.
One possible response from the subject of this article may just be "physician heal thyself.."
On the other hand, what we have been doing is violation of UN Charter, International law in most cases, and the means we choose would be violations of US law. The refuge creation is entirely our creation. Afgani regime has allowed exploding poppy production under our tutelage, as just one example. We think we have precision in intelligence and technology, we clearly don't, we blown away hospitals and cannot be certain of the loyalty of tyrants we support.
And what are our interests? Are they legitimate? The exlusive monopoly to drill for natural gas in someone's backyard or get a no-bid highway construction contract can be (chances are, will be) contested by any state, it would violations of existing anti-trust laws within our borders or in the EU.
We are impoverishing peoples wherever we have intervened and impoverishing ourselves.
One possible response from the subject of this article may just be "physician heal thyself.."
58
"Putin's Regime, as horrible as its, does not aim to rearrange countries, societies and regimes"
That is absolutely not true. Putin wants to recreate USSR, very much. He doesn't want Ukraine, Belarus or Georgia to be independent countries, but satellites of Russia. And when Ukraine choosed to move toward EU, Mr. Putin started economic blackmail indeed - with huge trade embargoes aimed against Ukraine.
Also he occupied Crimea and started the war in Eastern Ukraine. And don't even get me started about his actions in Georgia in 2008.
So in which part of all these actions Mr. Putin "does not aim to rearrange countries, societies and regimes"?
That is absolutely not true. Putin wants to recreate USSR, very much. He doesn't want Ukraine, Belarus or Georgia to be independent countries, but satellites of Russia. And when Ukraine choosed to move toward EU, Mr. Putin started economic blackmail indeed - with huge trade embargoes aimed against Ukraine.
Also he occupied Crimea and started the war in Eastern Ukraine. And don't even get me started about his actions in Georgia in 2008.
So in which part of all these actions Mr. Putin "does not aim to rearrange countries, societies and regimes"?
1
"Putin's Regime, as horrible as its, does not aim to rearrange countries, societies and regimes "
Really, what about Ukraine, Georgia and other former USSR servant states?
Really, what about Ukraine, Georgia and other former USSR servant states?
An EU investigation on the Georgian war said that Georgia started it. People forget that.
2
Judging by the pro-Putin stance of many of the reader comments here, Putin's internet misinformation/propaganda machine is in full mode.
Make NO mistake, Vladimir Putin is a rodent who only understands the back side of a shovel.
Period.
Make NO mistake, Vladimir Putin is a rodent who only understands the back side of a shovel.
Period.
254
Perhaps the US has been too open about allowing Russians to immigrate. Some would seen to be happier had they stayed, where they can test their freedom of expression against the GPU. Russia never has had a decent government - Tsarism, Stalinism, now Putinism - nor will it ever because of the basic character and cultural flaws in the Russian people.
So then... nuke them all?
I guess Russians has same oppinion about American politicians and American policy. Such positions are counterproductive because it demonized other side and prevent constructive approach to solve the problems.
4
The apologists for Russian war crimes, in this comments section, have had a very busy week what with filling out all of those on-line, "who won the debate", forms and now twisting credulity in defense of poor Vlad and Russia here. Meh!, I guess it's a job.
76
Russia is an outlaw state. That doesn't mean the US should insert itself in civil conflicts to block Russian involvement in civil conflicts. If they bomb hospitals we should build them. If they create refugees we should provide them with food, clean water and shelter.
Sadly we will confront them with more killing and choose sides in civil conflicts where we kill people and train the next generation of anti-US terrorists. We need to restore the UN, the World Court and other peaceful means to deal with civil conflict. The US confronting Russia by encircling them with nuclear weapons, missiles and arming their enemies to the teeth certainly hasn't made the world a more peaceful place.
We can't control them, we can control ourselves. That's not an apology for Russian behavior or Putin.
Sadly we will confront them with more killing and choose sides in civil conflicts where we kill people and train the next generation of anti-US terrorists. We need to restore the UN, the World Court and other peaceful means to deal with civil conflict. The US confronting Russia by encircling them with nuclear weapons, missiles and arming their enemies to the teeth certainly hasn't made the world a more peaceful place.
We can't control them, we can control ourselves. That's not an apology for Russian behavior or Putin.
1
About the time President Obama made his "red-line" comment I attended a "town hall" meeting put on by my Congressman Justin Amash. He was all puffed up about the constitution and war powers and was rubbing his hands in glee about the "mistake" the President had made in that comment and the political hay the Republicans would make in thwarting any measures he might take to mitigate the suffering in Syria. In that the Republican obstructtionist congress made it apparent that their mission was to deny our President "any" governance initiative, he tabled Syria as "not do-able." Since then, the President has asked congress to use their war powers act to either empower or dis-empower any U.S. action in the region and they have failed to do so.
Hmm, I see, evil Russian forces are sowing destruction in Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Afghanistan, among scores of other places, and have a defense budget which exceeds next five countries combined. Internally Russian police routinely kills citizens at traffic stops. Yes Putin has to be taught a lesson.
75
What a facile, faulty comparison. The very fact that you can write that about the US and not have to worry about a late night knock on your door by the secret police proves there is really no equivalence.
3
trblmkr,
Did the Libyans, Iraqis, Yemenis, and Afghans get a knock from the from the US or a bomb over their roof?
Did the Libyans, Iraqis, Yemenis, and Afghans get a knock from the from the US or a bomb over their roof?
I'm astonished at the claims of equivalency between the U.S. and Russia now, based on the admitted history of atrocities committed by past U.S. administrations. Obama has made an honest effort to turn this country away from imperial ambitions, and from wars of aggression. Russia, by contrast, seeks opportunities to expand territory and to practice aggression. Putin's critics at home get assassinated or imprisoned - in what way, then, is his autocratic rule, and overt rule by force, equivalent to American democracy?
103
Are you saying creating mess in Lybia, supporting the rebels in Syria, helping Saudi to ravage Yemen are the steps from imperial ambitions?
3
I like your response, Judith; however, there is an elephant in the room (pun intended) and that's Donald Trump. November will tell whether we are a sane and rational people, or just deluded fools.
Putin in his book wrote warned of the danger presented by a rat driven into a corner. Now he placed himself into one through his own idiotic moves. And, yes, he is dangerous. Never forget that only Russian nukes represent the sole existential threat to humanity. And while in the Soviet times there was a GROUP of old men who still remembered the devastation of WWII, now it's ONE man who is making the fateful decisions. And that man is not in a close contact with the reality we all share. Nothing is going to be resolved until he is outsted.
Russia is not our enemy!
32
Indeed any country that perpetrates violence against humanity deserves to be "everybody's" enemy. So you are correct ... Russia is not the exclusive enemy of the US, but along with North Korea deserves to be everybodys' enemy.
1
I like the Russian people generally, but Putin is a criminal and needs to be either killed or put in jail.
2
They are certainly not our friend....
2
Yes he is a butcher.
And just see this comment board rationalizing it or defending it or simply throwing up dust. The Russian propaganda machine is strong.
I'm a liberal. But it is also clear that US policy under the president is failed here. Moreover I have no confidence in Kerry. The fact that he was never accused of being the brightest bulb may be hurting us. However, there may be no magic solution at all and it isn't in our interest to go to war over it.
And just see this comment board rationalizing it or defending it or simply throwing up dust. The Russian propaganda machine is strong.
I'm a liberal. But it is also clear that US policy under the president is failed here. Moreover I have no confidence in Kerry. The fact that he was never accused of being the brightest bulb may be hurting us. However, there may be no magic solution at all and it isn't in our interest to go to war over it.
10
Simply pointing out that the US has committed as many atrocities and should also be considered a rogue nation with Russia isn't propaganda. It's a rational look at what has transpired since 2000.
It is also why Bernie supporters screamed "No more war" There is a significant segment of our country who don't want yet another war of destruction based on some "American ideal" that we shove down other culture's throats.
It is also why Bernie supporters screamed "No more war" There is a significant segment of our country who don't want yet another war of destruction based on some "American ideal" that we shove down other culture's throats.
1
"There seems no holding Mr. Putin to account..." That is at the heart of Russia's rogue behavior. Russia could be "a constructive partner in the search for peace" and a partner cooperating on improving living conditions in third world countries. Instead, Russia is headed by a tyrant who defies human decency for his own gains; a man who lies even when confronted with the truth; a man who respects only himself.
America is an agent of good which has made terrible mistakes (especially under George W. Bush), but America is not a rogue nation. In less than 2 months, America will decide its future. One possibility is choosing a tyrant. Donald Trump is nothing less than a tyrant. Trump has told us ONLY HE can make America great again. He does not listen to any advisors other than dedicated puppets (Christie and Giuliani). Trump lies about everything, evidence be damned; he maintains he was always against the war in Iraq despite a tape on which he states his support for the invasion. Trump respects no one...except Putin. He calls others derogatory names, insults women, ethnic groups and whole religions, but he admires Putin. Trump says Putin is a better leader than Obama. Trump defends Russian hacking into our government and Trump remains secret about his tax returns which likely would reveal financial ties with Russia.
Trump is a dangerous man who, like Putin, could determine whether America remains an agent for good or becomes a rogue nation serving the interests of Donald Trump.
America is an agent of good which has made terrible mistakes (especially under George W. Bush), but America is not a rogue nation. In less than 2 months, America will decide its future. One possibility is choosing a tyrant. Donald Trump is nothing less than a tyrant. Trump has told us ONLY HE can make America great again. He does not listen to any advisors other than dedicated puppets (Christie and Giuliani). Trump lies about everything, evidence be damned; he maintains he was always against the war in Iraq despite a tape on which he states his support for the invasion. Trump respects no one...except Putin. He calls others derogatory names, insults women, ethnic groups and whole religions, but he admires Putin. Trump says Putin is a better leader than Obama. Trump defends Russian hacking into our government and Trump remains secret about his tax returns which likely would reveal financial ties with Russia.
Trump is a dangerous man who, like Putin, could determine whether America remains an agent for good or becomes a rogue nation serving the interests of Donald Trump.
117
Trump is Putin's choice; he might get his wish fulfilled as nothing is certain about the outcome of the US election. It would not be the first time that a presidential election is decided by people from outside the US (remember Reagan 1980, courtesy Iran's ayatollahs).
2
It was policy. Overthrowing the governments of Iran, Guatemala, Congo, Indonesia, Chile, Nicaragua, Venezuela, Honduras, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and more do not indicate mistakes. The US is the rogue nation whose policy is to prevent democraccy around the world. US policy is to tell other nations’ peoples how to run their countries and who will run them. US policy is to support dictators like those who run Saudi Arabia and the other oil-rich Gulf states. US policy abroad is increasingly visible domestically in its murder of Black people at home, its treatment of immigrants without papers, its funneling of wealth from the 99% to the 1%. The NY Times has the chutzpah to defend grotesque US policy and call other nations “rogue.” Shameless.
4
Way to make this about Trump. You NY Times liberals have only one track. Do you think Hillary will bring peace upon whatever land she settles her gaze?
America is an agent of good? Try telling that to the Iraqis, the Syrians, the Yemenis, the Libyans, the Egyptians, the Jordanians, etc. America is an agent of power. Good is in the eye of the beholder. America is as belligerent and bellicose and bullying on the international stage as you believe Mr. Trump to be--even now, under President Obama's Administration, who at least hasn't the impulse that W and Hillary had and have for believing more troops is always the answer, whatever is the question.
America is an agent of good? Try telling that to the Iraqis, the Syrians, the Yemenis, the Libyans, the Egyptians, the Jordanians, etc. America is an agent of power. Good is in the eye of the beholder. America is as belligerent and bellicose and bullying on the international stage as you believe Mr. Trump to be--even now, under President Obama's Administration, who at least hasn't the impulse that W and Hillary had and have for believing more troops is always the answer, whatever is the question.
3
Following Daddy Bush's war to save Kuwait, the US left troops in Saudi Arabia. Bin laden told the US to get their troops out of the Holy Lands, we did not and you saw the results on 911.
Russia did not want NATO countries on their borders. The West thumbed their nose and now you see the results.
Russia did not want NATO countries on their borders. The West thumbed their nose and now you see the results.
21
Putin=Osama bin Laden
I think we are in agreement then.
I think we are in agreement then.
Yes, having NATO on their border does make it harder to invade other countries, although not impossible. See Georgia, Crimea.
2
Bin Laden was NOT the "Saudi" government.
Common human decency is not something Putin cares about. In his own KGB way, he shows no remorse, like if human lives are nothing.
Not only the United States but the United Nations Security Council should refer the investigation to the International Criminal Court, independently of Russia not having ratified the Rome Statute and, do not rest until Putin has his day in La Hague.
Being a principal in bombing a commercial plane qualifies as an international crime against humanity and as a war crime. Bombing civilian is not a mean to restore “Russia’s greatness” which in Putin’s mind is a combination of the Czars opulence for the few and Stalin’s genocide actions.
Not only the United States but the United Nations Security Council should refer the investigation to the International Criminal Court, independently of Russia not having ratified the Rome Statute and, do not rest until Putin has his day in La Hague.
Being a principal in bombing a commercial plane qualifies as an international crime against humanity and as a war crime. Bombing civilian is not a mean to restore “Russia’s greatness” which in Putin’s mind is a combination of the Czars opulence for the few and Stalin’s genocide actions.
44
Dear Aurace Rengifo, where do you know from that the Russians did bomb any civilians? Do you have any facts. Or you just like a blind believe all what you hear? Get rid of such a feature to believe all you read, all you see. Do you really believe Copperfield is a magician or just a conjurer? Not Russian forces are sowing destruction in Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Afghanistan, and have a defense budget which exceeds next five countries combined. Not Russians are expanding their borders to be closer to NATO. Open your eyes!!!!
2
Russia employs people to troll their online critics. Some of these comments seem to be written by them. It brings it home to see it in person.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/31/world/europe/russia-finland-nato-troll...
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/31/world/europe/russia-finland-nato-troll...
65
"The bitter truth" indeed. With the fall of comunism, Soviet style, Russia was poised at the cusp of reclaimed greatness. Then the store keys were handed over to Vladimir Putin. We can wallow in our own angst about whether or not we expanded NATO too baldly, but the depth of Putinesque depravity leaves no doubt about what animates the core of this human being.
He is a vicious, mendacious, murderous thug: at home and abroad. He has become a serial war criminal. His string of outright lies, abetted by his foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, renders him constitutionally unfit for negotiation. He has no interest in peace or the safety of civilian victims. He reneges on his solemn pledges within hours of making them.
Under Putin's malevolent dictatorship, Russia has crossed the line from troublesome into territory that brooks no viable negotiation. You cannot do business with an entity that lies so routinely that even a current nominee for the US presidency might blush. That is the memo, Secretary Kerry; please read it at last. Today's Russia has become more purely evil than the empire it replaced.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
He is a vicious, mendacious, murderous thug: at home and abroad. He has become a serial war criminal. His string of outright lies, abetted by his foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, renders him constitutionally unfit for negotiation. He has no interest in peace or the safety of civilian victims. He reneges on his solemn pledges within hours of making them.
Under Putin's malevolent dictatorship, Russia has crossed the line from troublesome into territory that brooks no viable negotiation. You cannot do business with an entity that lies so routinely that even a current nominee for the US presidency might blush. That is the memo, Secretary Kerry; please read it at last. Today's Russia has become more purely evil than the empire it replaced.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
187
USA!!!! USA!!!!! USA!!!!
1
@John LeBaron
Yes. It also didn't help that the West sent virtually all its investment dollars to China after the fall of the Soviet Union and none to Russia.
We talked democracy but our money screamed "stability" and "cheap labor!"
Yes. It also didn't help that the West sent virtually all its investment dollars to China after the fall of the Soviet Union and none to Russia.
We talked democracy but our money screamed "stability" and "cheap labor!"
On July 3, 1988, Iran Air Flight 655 (IR655) was shot down by the USS Vincennes which led to the loss of life of 290 innocent civilian from six nations including 66 children. There were 38 non-Iranians aboard. The US government has refused to so much as apologize. The downing of the Malaysian airliner was almost certainly also a mistake -- they did not intend to shoot down a civilian airliner. The US invasion of Iraq also caused huge loss of life and destruction of property and many, many war crimes by the US (torture, murder of journalists, you name it). Fact is, our government has no moral standing to be complaining about violations of international law.
38
Note that the U.S. never denied shooting down the airliner, had numerous open investigations into the accidental action, and made restitution to the Iranian government. Whether or not the restitution was ever distributed to the surviving families I do not know, but the attempt was made.
A large difference between that and Putin's behavior.
A large difference between that and Putin's behavior.
6
So two wrongs make a right or did I miss some other point you were trying to make?
1
So who does have the moral standard? The airliner investigation was headed by the Dutch...
These issues mirror the current USA. Despite President Obama's efforts we are the world aggressor....
Thank you Republicans!
Thank you Republicans!
8
This is rubbish. The US violated its agreement to not move NATO even 1 metre closer to Russia. They fomented the overthrow of an elected president in Ukraine and now support a neo fascist government there which is obviously not a reliable partner for Russia. Ithink you will find thaking back Crimea is what the USA would have done in such circumstances. I'm afraid it's all part of the neo con push in the government. Editorials like this just muddy the water.
38
Watch for the comments with missing articles, they come from St. Petersburg.
29
In a discussion of Putin and his commission of war crimes, this editorial places matters that may technically constitute war crimes, with the systematic mass slaughter of civilians.
There is a major difference between how to respond to violations of the laws of war and the wholesale slaughter of hundreds of thousands, which clearly rise to the level of crimes against humanity.
And that is that the civilized world does not stand idly by and allow the slaughter of hundreds of thousands. Yet this been the policy of the Obama administration, which has never even made an issue, in an of itself, that crimes against humanity on this scale must cease.
When Assad used chemical weapons the threat to attack him with missiles put an end to him ever using such weapons again. And this is because we do not prevent people from committing crimes by targeting their ability to do so. We prevent people from committing crimes by making them pay dearly for their actions.
Years ago Obama should have conveyed to Assad that if he continues his bombing of civilians he will be attacked and assets that are very dear to him will be destroyed. Such as the Ministry of Defense HQ, or even his personal palace. And that such attacks will continue for as long as it takes,
It is plainly clear that Obama cared more about his "red line" than he cared about the slaughter of hundreds of thousands on his watch, a matter that was of no concern to him at all until it caused the refuge crisis.
There is a major difference between how to respond to violations of the laws of war and the wholesale slaughter of hundreds of thousands, which clearly rise to the level of crimes against humanity.
And that is that the civilized world does not stand idly by and allow the slaughter of hundreds of thousands. Yet this been the policy of the Obama administration, which has never even made an issue, in an of itself, that crimes against humanity on this scale must cease.
When Assad used chemical weapons the threat to attack him with missiles put an end to him ever using such weapons again. And this is because we do not prevent people from committing crimes by targeting their ability to do so. We prevent people from committing crimes by making them pay dearly for their actions.
Years ago Obama should have conveyed to Assad that if he continues his bombing of civilians he will be attacked and assets that are very dear to him will be destroyed. Such as the Ministry of Defense HQ, or even his personal palace. And that such attacks will continue for as long as it takes,
It is plainly clear that Obama cared more about his "red line" than he cared about the slaughter of hundreds of thousands on his watch, a matter that was of no concern to him at all until it caused the refuge crisis.
3
Can you tell me how the US destroying yet another country would have helped the region? Is Libya, Iraq, and Yemen not enough for us?
1
Granted, blowing hundreds of Dutch tourists out of the sky was not cool. However, give Putin due credit for cleaning up the ISIS mess created by the post-Neocon mess created in Iraq.
8
Huh? Putin is cleaning up the ISIS mess?
Putin is just creating more area for ISIS to grow by killing all moderate opposition to Assad. Once Putin stops bombing the cities were the moderates live? ISIS will move in since the Syrian army isn't capable.
Putin is just creating more area for ISIS to grow by killing all moderate opposition to Assad. Once Putin stops bombing the cities were the moderates live? ISIS will move in since the Syrian army isn't capable.
Actually it is the Kurds with US support who have been cleaning up ISIS while Putin and Assad concentrate on wiping out civilians in Aleppo - which is not and never has been an area of ISIS operation.
1
Actually Joel,
The rebels have wiped out most civilians in Aleppo. The Kurds have done very little to ISIS.
Your US supported Kurds is nothing more than a US fantasy.
The rebels have wiped out most civilians in Aleppo. The Kurds have done very little to ISIS.
Your US supported Kurds is nothing more than a US fantasy.
My how the trolls and the false equivalencies come out of the woodwork so quickly with every Putin critique!
56
They're sitting in a building in Moscow.
Self-fulfilling prophecy on the march!
Read senator Sam Nunn speech "The Future of NATO in an Uncertain World" to the SACLANT on 22 Jun. 1995
Read senator Sam Nunn speech "The Future of NATO in an Uncertain World" to the SACLANT on 22 Jun. 1995
3
Nature abhors a vacuum but political strongmen love them. Putin correctly perceived that Obama was would be unwilling to confront him and hold Russia to account. Ukraine, Crimea, Syria happened because Putin had taken Obama's measure and knew he could get away with it.
7
Ukraine and Crimea would have likely happened under any US president. Your also forgetting Georgia.
Putin is simply a cold blooded calculating murderer. His ego dwarf's Trumps. Trump is a pygmy compared Putin. You cannot negotiate with a psychopath/sociopath. He is only afraid of brute force against him. Stalin, Hitler, Mao, etc. were like that. Obama has made some big mistakes with Putin because he just doesn't understand the psychology of cold blooded murderers.
14
And Obama's option vis a vis Russia is what again? I'll wait.
2
Ah! the phrase supposedly coined by Vladimir Lenin "Useful Idiots!" appears to be alive and well this very day. Go ahead equate America's domestic problems and war against terrorism with Russia's intentional bombing of civilians. You are putting a smile on Vlad's face.
1
Mr. Putin's view of U.S., "the West", and others is demonstrably warped, as is outlined in this editorial. There are vital differences between what he is doing to his own people and his country, and peoples abroad, that contrast with our admittedly imperfect approach to human affairs. The fact that this journal is free to speak out in support of views that many agree with, and to call to task those whose actions harm and promote harms, is proof of our intent to seek a "better way", and that our experiment in government remains healthy be definition and comparison. The fact that we may freely communicate opposing views without fear of systemic intimidation, confinement, and, as seems to be occurring in Putin's Russia, unexplained death, offers one proof of that proposition.
Call out bad behavior, but when doing so, think to provide examples of alternatives that promote collaboration, so that we can hand off to our children that "better way".
Call out bad behavior, but when doing so, think to provide examples of alternatives that promote collaboration, so that we can hand off to our children that "better way".
1
It is time for the US to stop intervening militarily in every foreign conflict around the world and turn those resources to the task of rebuilding our own infrastructure and education system, made public education tuition free and built for the first time an US based universal single payer health care system that is the best in the world.
We also need to build a sustainable non carbon energy based energy system that will free us from dependence on foreign oil and domestic fracted natural gas. Oh and yes we will still need a military for defense of the homeland but not a military that is constantly deployed in half hearted international adventurism and video game wars.
When we have done all these things at home then we can discus the behavior of Putin's administration in Russia.
We also need to build a sustainable non carbon energy based energy system that will free us from dependence on foreign oil and domestic fracted natural gas. Oh and yes we will still need a military for defense of the homeland but not a military that is constantly deployed in half hearted international adventurism and video game wars.
When we have done all these things at home then we can discus the behavior of Putin's administration in Russia.
25
Whaddya know. Everything old is new again.
For those of you still behind the learning curve...
NYT is on the bandwagon, with the rest of the MSM and an insecure establishment, pushing the new McCarthyism...a new 'red scare'...
Of course the purpose of this is to distract you, as was in the case in the Cold War, from your legitimate issues with domestic governance to a shadowy outside 'threat' that requires us to 'set aside our differences', unite, and, most importantly, stop asking questions.
If you don't like the status quo...think foreign policy (and domestic policy for that matter) should change...perhaps we should be a little more peaceful and reserved in our approach to other countries...
...you're on the side of the terrorists, or communists, or whatever the bête noir de jure is. Ask questions...and Putin is gonna GETCHA!
Russia isn't innocent. They have national interests they defend, sometimes ruthlessly, and they have a paranoid ruling class very interested in securing its grip on power...that sometimes resorts to unscrupulous methods to do so.
Sound familiar? In other words...they behave as any great power can be expected to.
If our country can't figure out a way to deal with countries that don't immediately cave to US demands...we don't deserve to be considered leaders of the world.
Leaders forge compromises...make tough deals. What we do is starting to look conspicuously more like the actions of an insecure bully rather than an enlightened leader.
For those of you still behind the learning curve...
NYT is on the bandwagon, with the rest of the MSM and an insecure establishment, pushing the new McCarthyism...a new 'red scare'...
Of course the purpose of this is to distract you, as was in the case in the Cold War, from your legitimate issues with domestic governance to a shadowy outside 'threat' that requires us to 'set aside our differences', unite, and, most importantly, stop asking questions.
If you don't like the status quo...think foreign policy (and domestic policy for that matter) should change...perhaps we should be a little more peaceful and reserved in our approach to other countries...
...you're on the side of the terrorists, or communists, or whatever the bête noir de jure is. Ask questions...and Putin is gonna GETCHA!
Russia isn't innocent. They have national interests they defend, sometimes ruthlessly, and they have a paranoid ruling class very interested in securing its grip on power...that sometimes resorts to unscrupulous methods to do so.
Sound familiar? In other words...they behave as any great power can be expected to.
If our country can't figure out a way to deal with countries that don't immediately cave to US demands...we don't deserve to be considered leaders of the world.
Leaders forge compromises...make tough deals. What we do is starting to look conspicuously more like the actions of an insecure bully rather than an enlightened leader.
38
"If our country can't figure out a way to deal with countries that don't immediately cave to US demands...we don't deserve to be considered leaders of the world."
We have, they're call multi-lateral sanctions and they're about to be tightened.
We have, they're call multi-lateral sanctions and they're about to be tightened.
Stunningly asinine equations of American policy with Soviet policy do nothing but validate this editorial, whose only flaw is tardiness. For years, contributors to The New York Review of Books, of impeccably skeptical and critical credentials, have revealed Putin as the malignant revanchist gangster that he is. Yet even a malignant revanchist gangster needs an excuse to enjoy American correction, and as the editorial discloses, it is time to consider it.
5
I applaud the NYT's editorial board for bringing needed attention to the barbaric actions of the despot Putin.
Many of the people commenting here comparing Putin's actions to those of the U.S., draw an equivalence that is simply ludicrous. The U.S. doesn't purposely bomb aid convoys or hospitals, have domestic journalists and dissidents assassinated or annex territory of sovereign countries. Oh, apologies if I'm too naive to see all the heinous actions that the CIA continues to commit, which many a left-wing conspiracy theorist is sure is going on to this day.
All I can say is that world could use a little more American exceptionalism. As the world's only remaining superpower, the U.S. could substantially reduce the severity of the humanitarian catastrophe happening in Syria. But President Obama has accurately read the pulse of both Democratic Party voters and isolationists/nationalists on the right (aka Trump supporters). They want no interventions overseas. It doesn't matter if helping to bring stability to Syria serves American national security interests as well as helping to end a brutal civil war that has claimed hundreds of thousands of lives and displaced millions.
Many of the people commenting here comparing Putin's actions to those of the U.S., draw an equivalence that is simply ludicrous. The U.S. doesn't purposely bomb aid convoys or hospitals, have domestic journalists and dissidents assassinated or annex territory of sovereign countries. Oh, apologies if I'm too naive to see all the heinous actions that the CIA continues to commit, which many a left-wing conspiracy theorist is sure is going on to this day.
All I can say is that world could use a little more American exceptionalism. As the world's only remaining superpower, the U.S. could substantially reduce the severity of the humanitarian catastrophe happening in Syria. But President Obama has accurately read the pulse of both Democratic Party voters and isolationists/nationalists on the right (aka Trump supporters). They want no interventions overseas. It doesn't matter if helping to bring stability to Syria serves American national security interests as well as helping to end a brutal civil war that has claimed hundreds of thousands of lives and displaced millions.
141
Would that be the same stability we brought to Afghanistan and Iraq?
3
Thank you!
The US doesn't bomb aid convoys? Drone strikes deaths estimated at 2,600. Drone strike civilian deaths? Estimated at 2,400, including wedding parties and children.
Civilian deaths in Yemen? Maybe 5,000? Not the US directly, but US planes, bombs and radar control and refueling aircraft.
Deaths in Libya? No one bothered to count, but they are in the thousands.
Stability to Syria? That's like believing that we really invaded Iraq because of WMD's.
See Robert Kennedy's excellent piece in Politico. We didn't decide that Syria needed 'democracy' in 2011 when Assad was helping us against Al Qaeda. We decided Assad had to go in 2009 when he refused to sign a pipeline agreement with the Gulf States.
Whenever you see the same story, in this case Putin the evil one, run over and over again, simply with slightly different facts it likely comes from the Beltway propaganda machine, not honest journalism.
These are facts, not conspiracy theories. When you start adding the death toll of American wars since 1960 you are looking at almost 3 million from Vietnam alone and over one million from Iraq alone. And yes, all done quite purposefully. As Sec. Albright said on 60 Minutes, a half million dead Iraqi children is a small price to pay for advancing America's national interests. Fact not theory. Another very sad fact, Obama and Kerry are not moving aggressively to end the civil war. They want a stalemate so that the next president can continue right where they left off.
Civilian deaths in Yemen? Maybe 5,000? Not the US directly, but US planes, bombs and radar control and refueling aircraft.
Deaths in Libya? No one bothered to count, but they are in the thousands.
Stability to Syria? That's like believing that we really invaded Iraq because of WMD's.
See Robert Kennedy's excellent piece in Politico. We didn't decide that Syria needed 'democracy' in 2011 when Assad was helping us against Al Qaeda. We decided Assad had to go in 2009 when he refused to sign a pipeline agreement with the Gulf States.
Whenever you see the same story, in this case Putin the evil one, run over and over again, simply with slightly different facts it likely comes from the Beltway propaganda machine, not honest journalism.
These are facts, not conspiracy theories. When you start adding the death toll of American wars since 1960 you are looking at almost 3 million from Vietnam alone and over one million from Iraq alone. And yes, all done quite purposefully. As Sec. Albright said on 60 Minutes, a half million dead Iraqi children is a small price to pay for advancing America's national interests. Fact not theory. Another very sad fact, Obama and Kerry are not moving aggressively to end the civil war. They want a stalemate so that the next president can continue right where they left off.
3
Thus does the destabilization of the Middle East sparked by Bush's Folly reach its natural next stage: a proxy war in Syria with the U.S. on one side and Russia on the other. Given that Trump admires Putin, do we really want Putin-lite in the White house?
6
Any one who thinks that Putin can be worked with as a normal partner for the good of the world is very naive. He wants only power and for him it is a zero-sum game. He wins and the West loses. He has made it very clear over the last years that our values and well being stand in the way of his mission and legacy. He cannot be negotiated with. He can only be contained.
143
Further to my comparison of the Putin/Trump relationship to Richard Condon's fiction,
In Mile High, his eighth novel, one primarily about how a single spectacularly ruthless gangster named Eddie West imposes Prohibition upon an unwary populace, Condon sums up the theme of all his books in a single angry cri de coeur:
"Prohibition fused the amateurism and catch-as-catch-can national tendencies of the early days of the republic with a more modern, highly organized lust for violence and the quick buck. It fused the need to massacre twelve hundred thousand American Indians and ten million American buffalo, the lynching bees, the draft riots, bread riots, gold riots and race riots, the constant wars, the largest rats in the biggest slums, boxing and football, the loudest music, the most strident and exploitative press with the entire wonderful promise of tomorrow and tomorrow, always dragging the great nation downward into greater violence and more unnecessary deaths, into newer and more positive celebration of nonlife, all so that the savage, simple-minded people might be educated into greater frenzies of understanding that power and money are the only desirable objects for this life."[5]
In Mile High, his eighth novel, one primarily about how a single spectacularly ruthless gangster named Eddie West imposes Prohibition upon an unwary populace, Condon sums up the theme of all his books in a single angry cri de coeur:
"Prohibition fused the amateurism and catch-as-catch-can national tendencies of the early days of the republic with a more modern, highly organized lust for violence and the quick buck. It fused the need to massacre twelve hundred thousand American Indians and ten million American buffalo, the lynching bees, the draft riots, bread riots, gold riots and race riots, the constant wars, the largest rats in the biggest slums, boxing and football, the loudest music, the most strident and exploitative press with the entire wonderful promise of tomorrow and tomorrow, always dragging the great nation downward into greater violence and more unnecessary deaths, into newer and more positive celebration of nonlife, all so that the savage, simple-minded people might be educated into greater frenzies of understanding that power and money are the only desirable objects for this life."[5]
There are alternatives on Syria other than empty complaints or U.S. military action. The main effort should be to break the sieges that the U.N. Security Council deemed illegal with airdrops. The U.N. already airdrops food to one city in Syira, Deir al-Zour (an Assad controlled area surrounded by ISIS). These should be expanded immediately to Aleppo and other areas. See an analysis that supports this in the open letter
http://www.rpm.world/statement-against-kerry-lavrov-deal.html
#DropFoodNotBombs is a policy that can break the logjam. It will no doubt be mentioned again in the demonstration in front of the U.N. on October 1
http://www.rpm.world/statement-against-kerry-lavrov-deal.html
#DropFoodNotBombs is a policy that can break the logjam. It will no doubt be mentioned again in the demonstration in front of the U.N. on October 1
5
"...determined to bring both Russia and the individuals who fired the missile to justice..."
Even at Nuremberg trial, trial was held not over whole country, Germany. But what the heck. Keep advancing new ideas!
Even at Nuremberg trial, trial was held not over whole country, Germany. But what the heck. Keep advancing new ideas!
1
This article only proves why the NYT is not only, no longer a great newspaper but why it has fallen to the level of honesty of FOX. It, like the present election (in which the NYT has perfectly functioned as the 'Pravda' of US global hegemony and DNC partisan half truths) is beneath contempt.
Only for those who read nothing but the NYT could fall for this litany of open lies and absurd distortions expressed here. Even the few, pro this article comments, show FOX level of bigotry here (only 23 comments at this time to pick from too)
1) ''The world is taking an awfully long time to wake up to the obvious.
Russia needs to be ostracised one hundred percent. Politically, they
are not human''
Only for those who read nothing but the NYT could fall for this litany of open lies and absurd distortions expressed here. Even the few, pro this article comments, show FOX level of bigotry here (only 23 comments at this time to pick from too)
1) ''The world is taking an awfully long time to wake up to the obvious.
Russia needs to be ostracised one hundred percent. Politically, they
are not human''
7
The 1000-lb gorilla hiding in the corner of this editorial is that Putin must surely feel emboldened by the praise heaped upon him by Donald Trump. Putin, a former KGB agent, is at best an international bully and domestic kleptocrat and at worst an authoritarian dictator, and war criminal who rigs elections and murders political opponents and nosy reporters with impunity. He openly defies international law and was labeled an "adversary" of the U.S. just yesterday by CIA Director Brennan. If Hillary Clinton were to heap praise upon Putin proclaiming him a strong and "fabulous" leader, the far right would brand her a traitor. Let's hope the U.S. electorate holds Trump accountable in a way the Russian people are denied: at the ballot box.
262
A failed attempt at Swiftian satire by the editorial board?
10
@realDonaldTrump, remind me again: what is it that you see in this guy?
3
There are no lack of putin apologists here (and lumpy too). Comrades - can't we all just get along. nyet.
9
The need to "balance" between Putin and Obama, to "balance" between the atrocities of Russia and those of the USA reminds me of our domestic media's need to "balance" between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton. How many really think that Putin is striving for a world which is better for all its people or even a Russia which seeks a better life for its people? How many really think the collapse of the Soviet Union is one of the greatest disasters of the 20th century if not in all history? How many refugees are risking all to immigrate to Putin's Russia? How many peaceful demonstrations are there every day in Russia to call attention to grievances? How much evidence is there in Russia of an active free press criticizing Putin and the government of Russia?
7
The parade of anti-Putin rhetoric in the NTY is past tiresome.
(1) Under international Law President Assad leads the legitimate Government in Syria. His Government invited Russia in to fight against invading mercenary armies funded, inter alia, by USA, Saudi Arabia. Russian intervention turned the tide of a brutal war and President Assad is in a position of defeating the mercenaries. The battle in part of Aleppo may be a turning point militarily; it could save the Syrian people from more war and deliver a major defeat to ISIS. All USA and its coalition actions in Syria are illegal under International Law. In the case of Syria Russia and Putin are on the side of International Law.
(2) “On Sept. 19, Russia bombed an aid convoy, which like hospitals and civilians are not supposed to be targeted under international law.”
There is no definitive Evidence that Russia bombed an aid convoy; there is only propaganda by USA and it’s allies; they are interested parties and are not to be believed by default. Clear evidence is needed.
(3) It is difficult to treat the investigation into the downing of the Malaysia Airlines plane seriously because it is not being conducted transparently. There is too much scope for interested parties to tamper with, create or manipulate Evidence. American Government statements must , by default, be treated as propaganda until organisations like the New York Times rediscover their once great investigative tradition.
(1) Under international Law President Assad leads the legitimate Government in Syria. His Government invited Russia in to fight against invading mercenary armies funded, inter alia, by USA, Saudi Arabia. Russian intervention turned the tide of a brutal war and President Assad is in a position of defeating the mercenaries. The battle in part of Aleppo may be a turning point militarily; it could save the Syrian people from more war and deliver a major defeat to ISIS. All USA and its coalition actions in Syria are illegal under International Law. In the case of Syria Russia and Putin are on the side of International Law.
(2) “On Sept. 19, Russia bombed an aid convoy, which like hospitals and civilians are not supposed to be targeted under international law.”
There is no definitive Evidence that Russia bombed an aid convoy; there is only propaganda by USA and it’s allies; they are interested parties and are not to be believed by default. Clear evidence is needed.
(3) It is difficult to treat the investigation into the downing of the Malaysia Airlines plane seriously because it is not being conducted transparently. There is too much scope for interested parties to tamper with, create or manipulate Evidence. American Government statements must , by default, be treated as propaganda until organisations like the New York Times rediscover their once great investigative tradition.
34
Your obsessive demonization of Putin and your seeming ignorance of what is actually happening in Syria are astonishing and frankly an embarrassment.
As the former Times correspondent Stephen Kinzer has justly remarked, "Coverage of the Syrian war will be remembered as one of the most shameful episodes in the history of the American press."
Who exactly do you think is being targeted in East Aleppo by Russian and Syrian bombs? You call them "rebels", while the Syrian government calls them "terrorists'. You're wrong, and the Syrian government is correct. How so? Because these are the *same people* who attacked us on 9/11, al-Qaeda and its offshoots, and don't we correctly refer to those people as "terrorists"?
You parrot one Pentagon claim after another as though they were established facts, but they are not established facts. You blame Russia alone for the failed ceasefires, and are completely silent on the fact which your own people have reported on, that the Pentagon was rather furiously resisting the administration's plan for close tactical cooperation with Russia, which was supposed to be the second phase of the ceasefire. And lo and behold, the Pentagon then attacked a Syrian airbase, killing dozens of Syrian soldiers, which certainly put a stop to that plan! Of course it was all declared a "mistake".
The risks are great here. It would seem to make so much more sense to cooperate with the nuclear power Russia against common enemies than demonize and provoke it.
As the former Times correspondent Stephen Kinzer has justly remarked, "Coverage of the Syrian war will be remembered as one of the most shameful episodes in the history of the American press."
Who exactly do you think is being targeted in East Aleppo by Russian and Syrian bombs? You call them "rebels", while the Syrian government calls them "terrorists'. You're wrong, and the Syrian government is correct. How so? Because these are the *same people* who attacked us on 9/11, al-Qaeda and its offshoots, and don't we correctly refer to those people as "terrorists"?
You parrot one Pentagon claim after another as though they were established facts, but they are not established facts. You blame Russia alone for the failed ceasefires, and are completely silent on the fact which your own people have reported on, that the Pentagon was rather furiously resisting the administration's plan for close tactical cooperation with Russia, which was supposed to be the second phase of the ceasefire. And lo and behold, the Pentagon then attacked a Syrian airbase, killing dozens of Syrian soldiers, which certainly put a stop to that plan! Of course it was all declared a "mistake".
The risks are great here. It would seem to make so much more sense to cooperate with the nuclear power Russia against common enemies than demonize and provoke it.
38
Some time ago Charlie Rose interviewed Putin. Mr Rose commented to Putin," Obviously Russia is a force to be reckoned with," I am amazed when I read about Russia's model in the press, as it is no mystery, Putin is going to put back together as much of the prior Soviet Union as possible. Has been clear Obama avoided any confrontation with Russia over matters concerning the Ukraine. Russia is a major nuclear power. The US, Russia, and China, will stake out any circumstance that benefits their individual model.
I agree with Fakkir. There is a clear double standard here on state actions in the international arena. We dispute their intents but the US has clear actions which mimic or exceed their actions. (I would qualify the shoot down of the airliner, but our arming of selected actors is a constant.)
5
Our country lives in a glass house so to throw rocks at Putin's Russia is hypocritical. Did NY Times Ed-board forget about Abu Ghraib? How about the bunker-busting bombs Geo. W Bush 'gifted' to Israel in the summer of 2006? The Jewish State took them to air strike Lebanon and those bombs made in the USA CHARRED - yes, CHARRED infants, toddlers, and oldsters alike. Not too long ago US air strikes in Northern Syria killed 85 civilians that Obama called a 'mistake'. How is that different from Russia airstrikes? Since 2012 the CIA was secretly training the rebels in Syria against Assad to over-throw him; those trained [reportedly] included Chechens and AL-Qaeda. They committed some of the most barbaric acts on the Syrian army; after beheading them they ate their flesh. Former ambassador to Syria Robert Ford admitted that the rebels funded by the State Department included ISIS and Al-Qaeda fighters. US has been on the wrong side of history - same as Russia.
22
The Times has become the arm of the American military-industrial-MSM failing Empire. Unfortunately, failing Empires need a boost. A fictional boost is OK; a boost by war is the end of everyone.
14
It wasn't long ago that Obama wanted to "reset" relations with Putin, and become best friends because he thought we were being too mean to him.
I agree totally that Russia is an outlaw state. It also shot down Korean Air Lines Flight 007 in 1983, killing all 269 passengers and crew.
Do not be handcuffed by references to *Godwin's Law*. Vladimir Putin deserves to be compared with Adolf Hitler. Putin is the most mendacious leader since Hitler. Every single time Putin does something dastardly, he denies it.
While some foolishly admire Putin, I see him as an enemy of all mankind.
The Russian people have had enough time to get rid of him, just as the German people could have gotten rid of Hitler in 1933. So, it is time for the decent nations of the world to unite and do whatever it takes to remove Putin from power. Putin is a bad bully who needs to be dealt with.
Do not be handcuffed by references to *Godwin's Law*. Vladimir Putin deserves to be compared with Adolf Hitler. Putin is the most mendacious leader since Hitler. Every single time Putin does something dastardly, he denies it.
While some foolishly admire Putin, I see him as an enemy of all mankind.
The Russian people have had enough time to get rid of him, just as the German people could have gotten rid of Hitler in 1933. So, it is time for the decent nations of the world to unite and do whatever it takes to remove Putin from power. Putin is a bad bully who needs to be dealt with.
8
Not to mention the way Vladimir Putin treats his own people.
I'm surprised there's a journalist left in Russia. Funny how they all become ill with symptoms of radiation poisoning.
For those commenters who equate the United States with Russia -- oh, please.
I'm surprised there's a journalist left in Russia. Funny how they all become ill with symptoms of radiation poisoning.
For those commenters who equate the United States with Russia -- oh, please.
11
Pardon me, but who has been President throughout Putin's escapades these last eight years? Oh, right. Barry the Babyboomer of Sesme Street fame. What a hoot it will be watching Russian antics when Mrs President politely asks him to please be a good boy or face a timeout, during which time he will eat her lunch. Diets can be a good thing though. Political purges too.
2
Did you spend great deal of time coming up with a catchy name for our President?
Sad.
Sad.
2
Remember the Mote and the beam ?
Before accusing others of various crimes, maybe the US ( and the Editorial Board of the NYT ) should take a good look at what the US has done over the last 50 years :
- Iran : thank you CIA for overthrowing an elected governement that utimately led to the rise of Khomeiny and what followed... Number of deaths ??
- Contras and other massive support to a wild bunch of dictators to fight communist guerillas in Latin America soverign countries not at war with the USA, all the while financing those black ops with drug smuggling in the USA, ie paying for it with the health of its own citizens .... Number of deaths ???
- WMD and other lies that blew up the Middle East , and the basic reason why this region is a colossal mess ... number of deaths ?
- drones killing in sovereign countries that are not at war with the USA , with civilans dying by the thousands ... Number of deaths ??
- Yemen war by Saudis armed by US suppliers that no media want to talk about ... Number of deaths ?
etc... etc...
I could go on but I think your editorial is lacking basic decency : you are not the good ones, with America being the savior and Russia the demon.
As in everything else in life, things are more complicated, and nothing is 100% pure or evil. The number of people dying because of US views on the world , because " yes we can", should make you thinking twice.
In the eyes of Russia, or China, or many other countries, YOU are the Outaw State.
Before accusing others of various crimes, maybe the US ( and the Editorial Board of the NYT ) should take a good look at what the US has done over the last 50 years :
- Iran : thank you CIA for overthrowing an elected governement that utimately led to the rise of Khomeiny and what followed... Number of deaths ??
- Contras and other massive support to a wild bunch of dictators to fight communist guerillas in Latin America soverign countries not at war with the USA, all the while financing those black ops with drug smuggling in the USA, ie paying for it with the health of its own citizens .... Number of deaths ???
- WMD and other lies that blew up the Middle East , and the basic reason why this region is a colossal mess ... number of deaths ?
- drones killing in sovereign countries that are not at war with the USA , with civilans dying by the thousands ... Number of deaths ??
- Yemen war by Saudis armed by US suppliers that no media want to talk about ... Number of deaths ?
etc... etc...
I could go on but I think your editorial is lacking basic decency : you are not the good ones, with America being the savior and Russia the demon.
As in everything else in life, things are more complicated, and nothing is 100% pure or evil. The number of people dying because of US views on the world , because " yes we can", should make you thinking twice.
In the eyes of Russia, or China, or many other countries, YOU are the Outaw State.
12
"the rebel stronghold in Aleppo": does not that phrase, in The Times's own report, mean something? Rather than demonize Putin and give credence to every charge against Russia, why not look also American policy and those the US has supported? The world is in the midst of a new Cold War (or, perhaps in fact one that never ceased), so that Syria has become the staging site of proxy armies fighting.
Does Obama have clean hands in such a war? Would Lavrov look worse than Samantha Power at the UN? I ask that because Team Obama on every front has demonstrated its dedication to confrontation, first, Russia, more recently, China. What is Obama's legacy, other than armed drone targeted assassination? This is not a tit-for-tat global scenario. The US is by far the greatest purveyor of violence in the world.
American-prompted NATO is in strength on the Russian borders. The US is dedicated to regime change on at least two continents. At home, it conducts massive surveillance on its own people. And yet NYT blithely makes charges against Russia as though there is no broader framework of analysis or historical record to go on.
Surprising? Not in the way the paper has given a complete whitewash to Clinton's militarism and praise for intervention. Is there no hope for impartiality? No hope for standing back in speaking truth to power? Whatever might be said in criticism of Putin and Xi of China, a candid view of Obama reveals a war criminal of equal or greater degree.
Does Obama have clean hands in such a war? Would Lavrov look worse than Samantha Power at the UN? I ask that because Team Obama on every front has demonstrated its dedication to confrontation, first, Russia, more recently, China. What is Obama's legacy, other than armed drone targeted assassination? This is not a tit-for-tat global scenario. The US is by far the greatest purveyor of violence in the world.
American-prompted NATO is in strength on the Russian borders. The US is dedicated to regime change on at least two continents. At home, it conducts massive surveillance on its own people. And yet NYT blithely makes charges against Russia as though there is no broader framework of analysis or historical record to go on.
Surprising? Not in the way the paper has given a complete whitewash to Clinton's militarism and praise for intervention. Is there no hope for impartiality? No hope for standing back in speaking truth to power? Whatever might be said in criticism of Putin and Xi of China, a candid view of Obama reveals a war criminal of equal or greater degree.
16
Ever hear of Polonium 210?
2
The comparison to Putin is ridiculous. Obama does not rig elections, enrich himself at the expense of his own people, or murder political opponents or members of the press. Your lopsided comment makes me wonder whether you are a Trump apologist for his overt support of the Russian dictator, a Russian troll trying to propagate Russian propaganda, or simply naive.
1
Rejoice. Norman. Mitch McConnell has succeeded in making Obama a two-tem POTUS and Team Obama will soon be gone. All hail Team Trump!
1
There is no Russia. Russia is an imperial myth. Even according to the official English version of the current Russian Constitution, in English the official name of this empire is not Russia but the Russian Federation.
Elsewhere in the document, it is true that the Constitution also states that the Russian Federation is also to be known as Russia. This has always seemed to me to a sop to the apologists for Russian Imperialism.
Russia has never been anything more than a vast, sprawling empire of very disparate peoples with the medieval Principality of Muscovy at its heart, ruled by its Prince from his palace in the Kremlin.
Elsewhere in the document, it is true that the Constitution also states that the Russian Federation is also to be known as Russia. This has always seemed to me to a sop to the apologists for Russian Imperialism.
Russia has never been anything more than a vast, sprawling empire of very disparate peoples with the medieval Principality of Muscovy at its heart, ruled by its Prince from his palace in the Kremlin.
11
Been reading about Russia as of late, and I have to say, if you were to add a little in about the Russian Populaces absolute lack of self rule in thousands of years, you'd have a spot on 500yr analysis of 'Russia'.
I know a whole family of victims who were destroyed in this attack. A whole family of five perished - two parents and three children. Never to return from their vacation. Astonishing the amount of digression in the comments regarding this opinion piece: let's blame the Americans, let's blame the Trump vs Hilary election campaign etc, etc. This is how we 'rationalise' what we don't want to confront: that this outrageous catastrophic crime was committed and the cowards have never claimed responsibility. I applaud this investigation. It will not bring back the victims who sadly vanished, but it will go a long way to ease the suffering of the families and friends left in the wake of this crime.
10
The power game is in play, time is running out on the Obama
lame duck presidency. and Putin is playing the clock to gain
as much power as he can Putin is a tough, experienced KGB
opponent Reality? Putin knows Obama is weak and indecisive,
and will do nothing. Different strategies are needed.
lame duck presidency. and Putin is playing the clock to gain
as much power as he can Putin is a tough, experienced KGB
opponent Reality? Putin knows Obama is weak and indecisive,
and will do nothing. Different strategies are needed.
1
Osama might disagree here.
It's a Hobbesian world. Often hard to tell good-guys from bad-guys. Would the bad- guys eventually become good-guys if they could become the Leviathan? Or would power corrupt them even further?
1
there it is, power corrupts absolute power corrupts absolutely.
While Western governments call for the removal of Assad the facts on the ground tell a tale of total Hypocrisy. The truth is that the ceasefire negotiated with Moscow was broken by the US/Britain and Australia governments when they illegally entered Syria and murdered over 60 troops in Deir Ezzor. Lets be sure about this, it was undertaken as a planned attack in conjunction with ISIL to end the ceasefire and hand the city to ISIL.
The Western governments part in this entire regime change operation is disgraceful and they all must be put before war crimes tribunals for their part in promoting these atrocities. Any government who is not invited by the Syrian government is in breach of international law, and most Western governments have uninvited boots on the ground in Syria. The fact that these Western governments support the overthrow of the legally elected Syrian government in total breach of international law speaks volumes. The fact that these same governments are sending weapons, money and training to UN mandated terrorists as a means of removing Assad just shows how despicable they really are.
The Western governments part in this entire regime change operation is disgraceful and they all must be put before war crimes tribunals for their part in promoting these atrocities. Any government who is not invited by the Syrian government is in breach of international law, and most Western governments have uninvited boots on the ground in Syria. The fact that these Western governments support the overthrow of the legally elected Syrian government in total breach of international law speaks volumes. The fact that these same governments are sending weapons, money and training to UN mandated terrorists as a means of removing Assad just shows how despicable they really are.
24
Yesterday, only three locations were targeted for airstrikes in Aleppo: a bakery, where people were standing in line to buy quickly-dwindling supplies of bread, and two hospitals. America inadvertently hits a hospital in Afghanistan and the far Left goes crazy. Putin and Assad do it again, and again, and again. They're doing it purposefully, openly, without any consequences from anyone. The far Left's response? Whataboutery and monkish quietude.
There are more than 250,000 people, the very poorest, remaining in Aleppo today. How many surgeons are left? Seven! And about thirty-five doctors, perhaps a little less, with plummeting stockpiles of anesthetics and food.
The American military is the functional equivalent of God. The F-35s are incredible. What is happening in Aleppo is Guernica redux. We could stop this. How many, how terribly many, women and children shall we let them butcher? How 'bout the whole country? Putin understands force; that's all. Is he going to go to the wall for Assad? That's a laugh. We won't even use stand-off weapons http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/17/world/middleeast/syria-assad-obama-air... Allowing this Massacre of the Innocents to go on shames America. No one else can stop this. Talking won't work, not yet.
Obama's paralysis by analysis in Syria has disgraced not only himself but the nation he leads. If we continue to waste time talking, the body count will skyrocket immensely, beyond its current 500,000-plus figure.
There are more than 250,000 people, the very poorest, remaining in Aleppo today. How many surgeons are left? Seven! And about thirty-five doctors, perhaps a little less, with plummeting stockpiles of anesthetics and food.
The American military is the functional equivalent of God. The F-35s are incredible. What is happening in Aleppo is Guernica redux. We could stop this. How many, how terribly many, women and children shall we let them butcher? How 'bout the whole country? Putin understands force; that's all. Is he going to go to the wall for Assad? That's a laugh. We won't even use stand-off weapons http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/17/world/middleeast/syria-assad-obama-air... Allowing this Massacre of the Innocents to go on shames America. No one else can stop this. Talking won't work, not yet.
Obama's paralysis by analysis in Syria has disgraced not only himself but the nation he leads. If we continue to waste time talking, the body count will skyrocket immensely, beyond its current 500,000-plus figure.
5
The fact that you think the US military is a god is scary. This militeristic thought process is what leads to wars.
2
"As one of five permanent members of the United Nations Security Council, his country shares a special responsibility to uphold international law."
In this century the Americans have launched an aggressive war against a sovereign country - the worst flouting of international law there is. It has not brought the guilty to justice. No special responsibility there, I guess.
Russia is a sovereign nation with its own interests. Because Putin did not hand over Snowden to the U.S. Obama had a hissy fit and flouted those interests. Instead of Putin's thugs running Ukraine, it had to be America's thugs. Since its legitimate interests were and are ignored by the system in place, Russia has gone outside the system. All of this was predictable.
Of course the U.S. wants more sanctions versus Russia. Sanctions hurt it very little, while they hurt Europe a lot. That's a two-fer in U.S. eyes.
And pardon me for gagging when I read, "even if Moscow blocks a formal referral to the International Criminal Court." Does the U.S. adhere to the International Criminal Court? No it does not. So I guess (again) it's not just Russia without respect for international norms and institutions.
In this century the Americans have launched an aggressive war against a sovereign country - the worst flouting of international law there is. It has not brought the guilty to justice. No special responsibility there, I guess.
Russia is a sovereign nation with its own interests. Because Putin did not hand over Snowden to the U.S. Obama had a hissy fit and flouted those interests. Instead of Putin's thugs running Ukraine, it had to be America's thugs. Since its legitimate interests were and are ignored by the system in place, Russia has gone outside the system. All of this was predictable.
Of course the U.S. wants more sanctions versus Russia. Sanctions hurt it very little, while they hurt Europe a lot. That's a two-fer in U.S. eyes.
And pardon me for gagging when I read, "even if Moscow blocks a formal referral to the International Criminal Court." Does the U.S. adhere to the International Criminal Court? No it does not. So I guess (again) it's not just Russia without respect for international norms and institutions.
38
Putin is not just a war criminal. State Department cables leaked to Wikileaks depict him as the leader of a corrupt, autocratic kleptocracy where arms trafficking, money laundering, extortion, and kickbacks are the norm; where government officials, oligarchs and organized crime are bound together to create a "virtual mafia state".
10
Sorry, but for me the outlaw state is the US. Its present government has been involved in overthrowing democratic governments in Ukraine, Honduras, Brazil and Paraguay and non-elected governments in a.o. Libya. It has been instrumental in throwing Libya, Yemen, Ukraine and Syria into civil wars.
As for those reports on knocked out hospitals, I stopped believing them after we were led to believe that the last pediatrician in East Aleppo had been killed. A few weeks later we saw an open letter from seven pediatricians from the area.
One shouldn't exaggerate the "strict standards" of the MH17 investigation. The team is only allowed to disclose information that has been approved by Ukraine - so it is doubtful that we get a complete overview of the evidence. And the main source of evidence are leaked phone conversations - disclosed by the Ukrainian secret service that in the past repeatedly has been caught spreading false information.
As for those reports on knocked out hospitals, I stopped believing them after we were led to believe that the last pediatrician in East Aleppo had been killed. A few weeks later we saw an open letter from seven pediatricians from the area.
One shouldn't exaggerate the "strict standards" of the MH17 investigation. The team is only allowed to disclose information that has been approved by Ukraine - so it is doubtful that we get a complete overview of the evidence. And the main source of evidence are leaked phone conversations - disclosed by the Ukrainian secret service that in the past repeatedly has been caught spreading false information.
25
Putin is a bad character for sure, but the hypocrisy from the U.S. when it comes to Syria is just so blatant. We are funding and arming the rebels- whoever they are, because the factions, including ISIS, are working together at times- to destabilize a legitimate country. True, Assad is a horrible leader, but let's be honest. We are there to destabilize Syria with the hopes of replacing Assad with a government more to our liking, and less aligned with Russia, but especially Iran. To stoke the flames of war and then sit back and proclaim indignantly the horrors of war is hypocritical. We did the same thing in Iraq, but in that case we used our own troops, not proxies. Do the rebels have legitimate concerns? Of course. But they started this war and are embedded in a civilian population and working tacitly with ISIS to achieve the common goal of defeating the Assad regime. Stop funding the rebels, and this war ends tomorrow.
12
Having live half my adult life abroad, I am struck by how most of the world has been educated by Hollywood in to thinking that the US Government is an outlaw regime. Most Americans understand the difference between fiction and reality but for most of the world, they know only the America of film. Name one film in the last 30 years in which the US Government played a positive role or was not contributing at least one villain to the plot? The world cannot differentiate between the real world villain Putin and what the 4-hour avg. of media fiction they watch each day tells them.
3
"Name one film in the last 30 years in which the US Government played a positive role or was not contributing at least one villain to the plot?"
Name One action in the last 30 years in which the US government played a positive role. We are the ones that stirred up the hornet's nest in the Middle East and we are the ones that splattered millions of women and children on their walls, just like Nam, Korea and Hiroshima.
Name One action in the last 30 years in which the US government played a positive role. We are the ones that stirred up the hornet's nest in the Middle East and we are the ones that splattered millions of women and children on their walls, just like Nam, Korea and Hiroshima.
1
You would not expect anything less from former KGB agent. Much more astonishing and alarming is the bromance between the Republican nominee for President and this ruthless thug, Exactly what qualities and characteristics does Mr. Putin possess that Donald Trump so admires? How on earth can people support a man for President who does not denounce , detest and despise this violent despot . Just imagine what Putin will think he can get away with and will actually try if Donald Trump is elected. Given Donald Trumps complete inability to admit he was wrong or made a mistake can you ever imagine him calling Putin to the carpet for it and acknowledging his enormous lapse in judgment?
8
And wasn't the Bush Dynasty the head of the CIA? You think there is a difference between the CIA and KGB?
1
There is a huge difference between George Bush, Sr and Putin. If you are unable to recognize that, then my guess is that you don't want to see reality.
1
Just think, if Trump is elected he would have a role model.
2
Isn't it dangerous to structure a body count reprimand, whereby the kettle (United States) is calling the pot (Russia) black? What if the pot starts listing the massive loss of life perpetrated by America's military since 9/11... in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria (through the support of anti-government factions), etc.? Hasn't the U.S. violated international law?...isn't that why Obama is so upset about yesterday's override passage of the Justice Against Sponsors of Terrorism (JASTA) act by Congress?
28
As to investigative Report of Netherlands...and Ukraine. (Ukraine is the main suspected body). Today Russian media are joking: "The Boeing was downed by rebells with the use of Russian Buk, that is why Ukraine has concealed the data from Ukrainian radars, records of negotiations of ukrainian dispatchers and location of Ukrainian Buks".
Putin sounds a lot like his good buddy Donald J. Trump. Maybe Trump and Putin are business partners and that's why Trump admires hi so much. Could the Donald be getting ready to sell America out to Putin if he's elected President?
Congress and the FBI should investigate that for two years.
Wouldn't surprise me at all. We know how much the Donald loves "making the deal" and how much he loves himself. Trump really doesn't give a damn about America. He only cares about himself.
Congress and the FBI should investigate that for two years.
Wouldn't surprise me at all. We know how much the Donald loves "making the deal" and how much he loves himself. Trump really doesn't give a damn about America. He only cares about himself.
9
Tell me your friends and followers and I will tell you how relevant you are internationally... President Putin's friends and followers are nothing but a bunch of anti-West autocrats but some how he manages to make himself look very important and relevant by allegedly exposing America's (i.e. President Obama's) weakness to the world. That's a lie, VPs autocratic ways is blocking the creation of a real democracy in Russia and his erratic foreign policy is pushing the world towards another unnecessary cold war.
5
I recently entered Russia through St Petersberg to visit as a tourist. The city is an amazing testament to it's history - the Tzars. We frequently see images of Putin walking through drawing rooms of the recreated Tzar palaces as if he were a Tzar and in effect he is. What I did notice once our tourist motorcoach left this fabled city for the countryside to visit the summer palace - the entire countryside appears to be a 4th world country in terms of condition of structures, pitiful looking truck farms, horse drawn carriages and old grand motherly types with their hands outstretched begging for a coin. I noticed a curtness on the part of many vendors, servers and guides and the lack of choices for beverages. Later on someone who has visited St Pertersberg and is an authority on Russian arts wispered that the reasons for all of the minders and the extensively roped off areas in the rooms is that all of the restorations of the palaces and museums were false - the walls themselves and all of the finishes were fake - they are made of paper mache - and don't want folks brushing against the walls puncturing them! This story resonated and fit perfectly what Putin is: A dictator of a hallow gutted state all smoke and mirrors - a country otherwise known as the largest gas station in the world. Fill it up, sir?
14
So you think Russia was better off with the Tzars. No one can do anything as well as the 1%, eh?
1
The US should send SF Stinger teams to Aleppo.
1
I was watching a Russian News Agency report, while here in Berlin, on RT TV. They devoted the first 10 minutes of their news to the downing of the Malaysia Airlines plane.
The report stated that newly released radar reports confirmed that it was clear that Russia played no part in the downing of the airliner and that America has conclusive radar that confirms this fact but won't release any information due to its desire to cover up the truth.
Pundits in RT TV then went on to slam the US for committing atrocities in Syria despite the fact that Russia continues to support peace in the region.
I know that Russia is a state-run news county, nonetheless this disturbed me greatly. The Russian people are being lied to daily, painting the US as the evil empire all under the command of a very sick man.
We have no chance of creating a peaceful world while Putin is in power.
The report stated that newly released radar reports confirmed that it was clear that Russia played no part in the downing of the airliner and that America has conclusive radar that confirms this fact but won't release any information due to its desire to cover up the truth.
Pundits in RT TV then went on to slam the US for committing atrocities in Syria despite the fact that Russia continues to support peace in the region.
I know that Russia is a state-run news county, nonetheless this disturbed me greatly. The Russian people are being lied to daily, painting the US as the evil empire all under the command of a very sick man.
We have no chance of creating a peaceful world while Putin is in power.
10
We bombed Iraq which led to this mess in the Middle East. We weren't bothering to create a peaceful world to begin with.
1
We said, though I might add one thing. We have been throwing ordinance around in Syria too. So we are sort of Mr. Pot, calling Russia, who is Mr. Kettle, black. Our technical and arms support of Saudi Arabia in Yemen is every bit as disgusting as Russia's in Syria. In other words, you live in a glass house don't throw rocks. I guess that's enough cliches for the day.
11
I just don't "buy" this. We are at their borders. They are not at ours. Gas and oil business along with their support coporations like pipelines, etc from Afghanistan to the Balkans, and from Saudi Arabia and other parts of the Middle East, seem to point to other "reasons" to make a fuss with Russia. We are the ones that have created havoc in their hemisphere. We have put a man on the moon. We can figure out how to have plenty of energy without fighting over the last drop of oil or gas. The main reason we don't is because we are under the control of these interests. We need to change this.
84
I agree with you
1
Putin fancies himself Caesar. Expand and protect the empire.
6
It is NATO that has expanded right up to Russia's borders, and our dozens of nearby bases and missile sites threaten. How many bases does Putin have in Mexico and Canada?
13
a reincarnation of Peter the Great he thinks he is
1
We should be careful what we wish for in our leaders here in the US. Putin is exactly what a Godless, moral-less, militant, communist, demagogue leader looks like in the 21st century.
It's a life - honestly an entire country - that I thank God we in the US don't have to lead.
It's a life - honestly an entire country - that I thank God we in the US don't have to lead.
9
Leave God™ out of it, will ya.
The criminal state is the US. It imprisons its own people , wages war on the world. It attacks Russia because Russia atands up to it. I live here. Im writing this froma nursery of children, evil Russian children. Ive yet to feel the anxiety I felt my entire life in the US. Or the disgust at my goverments actions.
The world knows the investigation was rigged, Ukraine as part of investigative committee? The workd will rejoice when the American Empire is over.
The world knows the investigation was rigged, Ukraine as part of investigative committee? The workd will rejoice when the American Empire is over.
38
I suspect 'Richard L Wilson' is an alias for a Russian (probably a Russian agent).
10
The difference between the two countries Richard is the fact that one has a free press and the other is controlled by the government. Since you have already decided to drink the Kool-Aid there is no more hope of a rational discussion of the facts. Believe what you will, but America will still be the light on the hill long after Putin is gone.
4
To be fair, almost everything that is said about Russia in this article could be said about the US as well. Considering its actions, the US in the eyes of many around the world does not have the authority to lambast others for their moral failings.
219
Fakkir:
As a point of fact, the US has never shot down a commercial airliner. Furthermore, would you say that Saudi Arabia has lost all of its moral authority because it has supported radical Islamic ideology and denies women's rights?
As a point of fact, the US has never shot down a commercial airliner. Furthermore, would you say that Saudi Arabia has lost all of its moral authority because it has supported radical Islamic ideology and denies women's rights?
4
"As a point of fact, the US has never shot down a commercial airliner. "
Of course it has. Iran Air 655.
Of course it has. Iran Air 655.
12
If you speak against the president of USA , will you be kidnapped and killed ? If you show dissent online or protest in USA , will you be murdered ? Has USA launched missiles against a civilian population ?Does the US president hold 40 Billion dollars worth of personal wealth through bribes and kickbacks ? Has US in modern times gone ahead and annexed another country ? A country that upholds true values of humans such as freedom of expression/ liberty / freedom of speech has the right to lambast others to answer your point . I totally agree that they have issues in their foreign policy and have made grave errors in the past but please do not compare and equalize an outlaw nation like Russia to USA !
12
The Western anti-Putin propaganda machine has been in full swing for some years. This is a vain attempt to cover the gross inadequacies of US-led Western leadership.
The end of the USSR should have ushered in an age of cooperation between the US and Russia, but Washington decided it was an opportunity to make more profits. When Putin stopped the looting of Russia, they turned him into the new bogeyman and tried to lever open the former Soviet republics for business, staging a coup in Ukraine.
.
The Syria crisis did not begin with the uprising of average Syrians, it is a struggle of Ba’athist Arab nationalism and socialism, allied with Iran, in resistance to Israel, the political Zionism of the West, and the pro-Saudi policies of the West. It has been brewing for a long time.
The Syrian conflict is now a full on proxy war where it is hard to tell the good guys from the bad ones anymore, but your portrayal of the forces fighting it out, and putting the blame solely on Russia, is ridiculously warped.
The people the secular, democratically elected Assad government (who still has the support of the majority of Syrians) is fighting with Russia are CIA and Mossad backed mercenaries and radical Sunni Islamic terrorists who've committed worse crimes than Assad.
Also, the CIA and Hillary Clinton as SOS nurtured the rise of ISIS by funnelling weapons, money, and arms via rat lines from Turkey into Syria to the radical Sunni Islamic terrorists.
So there is plenty of blame to go around.
The end of the USSR should have ushered in an age of cooperation between the US and Russia, but Washington decided it was an opportunity to make more profits. When Putin stopped the looting of Russia, they turned him into the new bogeyman and tried to lever open the former Soviet republics for business, staging a coup in Ukraine.
.
The Syria crisis did not begin with the uprising of average Syrians, it is a struggle of Ba’athist Arab nationalism and socialism, allied with Iran, in resistance to Israel, the political Zionism of the West, and the pro-Saudi policies of the West. It has been brewing for a long time.
The Syrian conflict is now a full on proxy war where it is hard to tell the good guys from the bad ones anymore, but your portrayal of the forces fighting it out, and putting the blame solely on Russia, is ridiculously warped.
The people the secular, democratically elected Assad government (who still has the support of the majority of Syrians) is fighting with Russia are CIA and Mossad backed mercenaries and radical Sunni Islamic terrorists who've committed worse crimes than Assad.
Also, the CIA and Hillary Clinton as SOS nurtured the rise of ISIS by funnelling weapons, money, and arms via rat lines from Turkey into Syria to the radical Sunni Islamic terrorists.
So there is plenty of blame to go around.
91
There is more reality in the letters to the editor than in the editorials of the NYT.
10
As long as people like the power couple Victoria Nuland and Robert Kagan aren't ousted, nothing will change.
No wonder Donald Trump has galvanized so much support given the cesspool that Washington D.C. has become.
No wonder Donald Trump has galvanized so much support given the cesspool that Washington D.C. has become.
8
"When Putin stopped the looting of Russia".
Putin didn't stop the looting of Russia, he has just taken that over along with his close friends. To believe otherwise is to be naive in the extreme.
Putin didn't stop the looting of Russia, he has just taken that over along with his close friends. To believe otherwise is to be naive in the extreme.
4
Putin, like Trump has a bigger ego than brain. His ego is at stake, he wants to spread the wanning power of Russia at the expense of small broken nations like Syria. He is not a leader we should try to reason with but rather shun and have sanctions against him for his crimes.
Why cant the United States completely cut off rogue nations when they go beyond civil nation behavior and human rights, like North Korea,Saudi Arabia and Iran have for years.
Why cant the United States completely cut off rogue nations when they go beyond civil nation behavior and human rights, like North Korea,Saudi Arabia and Iran have for years.
13
War is about getting what you want by killing people and destroying infrastructure.
Seems like Vladimir Putin probably understands that pretty well, and, perhaps America, which has not done that in a while (Hiroshima was the last time we destroyed an entire city and hundreds of thousands of lives)....
may have forgotten what war is really about having prosecuted political war, not real war, since WWII.
Seems like Vladimir Putin probably understands that pretty well, and, perhaps America, which has not done that in a while (Hiroshima was the last time we destroyed an entire city and hundreds of thousands of lives)....
may have forgotten what war is really about having prosecuted political war, not real war, since WWII.
1
You must have slept through the news stories about America's invasion of Iraq.
1
Perhaps you can explain to the thousands of families whose loved ones have been killed and injured in Afghanistan and Iraq that those weren't "real" wars.
10
What about Shock and Awe????? I will never forgive the lives we destroyed for a lie!! I am sure Vladimir Putin is a scoundrel, as is Donald Trump, but so is Bush/Cheney. Hiroshima as horrible an act as it was can be explained as having end a war, but Shock and Awe started an unnecessary war.
2
There are many reasons to doubt the Dutch report's findings: the translators were biased members of Ukraine's secret service, the in-and-out nature of the Buk missile delivery strains credulity, the question of why a Buk missile (presumably supervised by the Russians who just delivered it) would be fired at a passenger plane in the first place, the angle of the flightpath of the missile indicating it came from Ukraine controlled groundspace, etc. None of that is addressed in this short anti-Russian editorial. Read more here: http://www.opednews.com/articles/Troubling-Gaps-in-the-New-by-Robert-Par...
The case against Russia is even more shaky, since it is Russia and not America, that was invited in by its present government, and America, not Russia that is supporting so-called "moderate terrorists" which are really indistinguishable even according to the CIA, from ISIS and Al Qaeda. And the story of the U.S. accidentally bombing Syrian troops for 45 minutes is frankly unbelievable, while the U.S. role in trying to topple Assad from the time of Clinton as Secretary of State is undeniable.
The case against Russia is even more shaky, since it is Russia and not America, that was invited in by its present government, and America, not Russia that is supporting so-called "moderate terrorists" which are really indistinguishable even according to the CIA, from ISIS and Al Qaeda. And the story of the U.S. accidentally bombing Syrian troops for 45 minutes is frankly unbelievable, while the U.S. role in trying to topple Assad from the time of Clinton as Secretary of State is undeniable.
77
Maybe the letter writers to the NYT should be writing the editorials!
1
Let's assume for argument's sake that Russians did bring the Buk launcher across the border. But the launcher does not normally work alone, only together with the separate radar station. Without the latter the launcher is practically blind. So why would somebody in their right mind bring nonfunctional equipment for a clandestine operation, if they have plenty of other and more adequate means?
4
Is that you Vladimir Vladimirovich. It is perfectly stated with known provable falsehoods and in a perfect Kremlin style. Nice of you to add Russian lies to the discussion.
2
It's simply amazing that this editorial makes no reference at all to the utterly failed "reset" policy of Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama which was specifically designed to stop Russia from becoming an "outlaw state." The editorial is very wrong when it says Putin assumes Obama will do nothing during election cycle. He assumes Obama will do nothing because he has never, ever done anything and won't start now.
It's even more amazing to hear Obama and Clinton complain that Donald Trump is not tough enough on Russia. Obama and Clinton have pursued a policy of conciliation with Russia from the beginning, complaining that the Bush administration was too confrontational and that we needed to "reset" our relationship with Russia and transform it into a productive one.
The Obama-Clinton foreign policy as to both Syria and Russia is a failure, and it seems everyone in the world can see that except the New York Times. Ironically, it may well be that part of the paper's blindness is intentional, because of the election season, and it does not want to point out facts that could seriously undermine it's endorsed candidate, Hillary Clinton. To my mind, that's a conflict of interest and very unfortunate.
It's even more amazing to hear Obama and Clinton complain that Donald Trump is not tough enough on Russia. Obama and Clinton have pursued a policy of conciliation with Russia from the beginning, complaining that the Bush administration was too confrontational and that we needed to "reset" our relationship with Russia and transform it into a productive one.
The Obama-Clinton foreign policy as to both Syria and Russia is a failure, and it seems everyone in the world can see that except the New York Times. Ironically, it may well be that part of the paper's blindness is intentional, because of the election season, and it does not want to point out facts that could seriously undermine it's endorsed candidate, Hillary Clinton. To my mind, that's a conflict of interest and very unfortunate.
26
What you call "conciliation" is the attempt to keep communication open.
Very different from Donald Trump's fawning over Mr. Putin. But then, when you've got Russia lending you money and backing your real estate empire, you might want to fawn. Perhaps finding out how much Mr. Trump is in debt to Russia is one reason he doesn't want to release his taxes. You'd think that sort of relationship would automatically disqualify his candidacy.
Very different from Donald Trump's fawning over Mr. Putin. But then, when you've got Russia lending you money and backing your real estate empire, you might want to fawn. Perhaps finding out how much Mr. Trump is in debt to Russia is one reason he doesn't want to release his taxes. You'd think that sort of relationship would automatically disqualify his candidacy.
7
I guess they did not look into putin's soul like bush - who by the way started the whole mess.
5
What I find more amazing is that while you complaining about what Obama and Clinton have or should have done in regards in terms of Russia is your defense of Trump who A) has the same disregard for international (and national in some cases) law as Putin, B) supports Putin's actions as a strongman, C) wouldn't support NATO, and D) is calling for a "productive" relationship with Russia.
And most amazing is that the editorial held back from writing of the similarities between Trump and Putin and Trump's admiration for all things Russia and Putin. I suspect that they knew their readers were smart enough to see the parallels without having to spell it out.
And most amazing is that the editorial held back from writing of the similarities between Trump and Putin and Trump's admiration for all things Russia and Putin. I suspect that they knew their readers were smart enough to see the parallels without having to spell it out.
4
So far the world has given Putin a hall pass because he hasn't killed any "meaningful" people, just Syrians and Ukrainians. Nobody cared when Stalin murdered 8-11m Ukrainians during collectivization, du-kulakization and the terror famine (most of the world has never even heard of these events) in the early 1930's because Ukrainians were not "meaningful" people. Within the UN there are races and nationalities that count and others that do not. Retaliation for the latter group is thin. I would feel very nervous if I lived in Latvia, Lithuania or Estonia, especially if Trump is elected.
36
Do millions of Iraqi children killed during decade of sanctions and then more in a war to liberate them count as meaningful as well?
11
The NY Times, exemplar of thorough going American exceptionalism, rightly castigates Putin's Russia for shooting down the Malaysian airliner which killed 298 people.
Without ever mentioning the always exceptional USS Vincennes shooting down Iran Air Flight 655, killing 290 innocent civilians.
The Times tasks Russia to task for annexing Crimea and the attempted subversion of the sovereign government of Ukraine.
Never mentioning such American crimes as the massive, prolonged ILLEGAL bombing of Laos and Cambodia, the dumping of 22 million gallons of Agent Orange on Viet Nam, the US arming death squads in El Salvador, funding genocide in Guatemala, funding the Contra terrorists in their war on the sovereign government of Nicaragua.
Never mentioning the US invasion and occupation of Afghanistan and eliding the multiple war crimes committed in The Charge of The Fools Brigade into Iraq.
I love the smell of American exceptionalism in the morning.
It smells of maggot infested hubris and hypocrisy left too long in the sun.
Without ever mentioning the always exceptional USS Vincennes shooting down Iran Air Flight 655, killing 290 innocent civilians.
The Times tasks Russia to task for annexing Crimea and the attempted subversion of the sovereign government of Ukraine.
Never mentioning such American crimes as the massive, prolonged ILLEGAL bombing of Laos and Cambodia, the dumping of 22 million gallons of Agent Orange on Viet Nam, the US arming death squads in El Salvador, funding genocide in Guatemala, funding the Contra terrorists in their war on the sovereign government of Nicaragua.
Never mentioning the US invasion and occupation of Afghanistan and eliding the multiple war crimes committed in The Charge of The Fools Brigade into Iraq.
I love the smell of American exceptionalism in the morning.
It smells of maggot infested hubris and hypocrisy left too long in the sun.
199
Maybe because you're dragging out really old garbage. America is a long way from lily-white and often putrid decisions are born out of a nasty brew of incomplete info, distracted thought, stray and questionable motives, and fanciful goals. But America's performance isn't the cold light in which we view everyone's, and a spade is still a spade.
7
Getting a cold war going again is a prime objective of the U.S. and Russia.
1
So all of what you mention is true! So are you telling me that two wrongs make a right? The difference is that we acknowledge our mistakes, some time immediately other times years or months later. Obama is trying to learn from those mistakes. While some on these threads want to keep on making them. I for one am happy that there are not any troops on the ground. What i would like to see is more cooperation from our allies. I can see Obamas reason not to commit ground troops for we can not count on our allies in the region. We do not know exactly who friend or foe will be.
5
Vladimir Putin’s Outlaw State
The saddest thing for the U.S. is that we have a major party presidential candidate who praises Putin and his actions. While Russia remains a regional power its use of political disinformation and regional conflict deems it a criminal state. Violating international laws and norms. Trump’s praising of Putin as a strong leader is a major political victory for the ad hock dictator. Those who support Trump might as well be supporting Putin, because he thrives on such information to bolster his standing within Russia. Slowing Putin’s ambitions will only be accomplished by electing Clinton.
The saddest thing for the U.S. is that we have a major party presidential candidate who praises Putin and his actions. While Russia remains a regional power its use of political disinformation and regional conflict deems it a criminal state. Violating international laws and norms. Trump’s praising of Putin as a strong leader is a major political victory for the ad hock dictator. Those who support Trump might as well be supporting Putin, because he thrives on such information to bolster his standing within Russia. Slowing Putin’s ambitions will only be accomplished by electing Clinton.
43
Putin will chew Clinton up and spit her out by lunch time. Only a fool would think that we need to use more force to counter Russia. The missile defense systems in Romania and soon to be in Poland are a last straw with the Russians. In their neighborhood, they are willing to take off the gloves. They stopped the Nazis with mostly no help until late in the war. Don't think for a second that some bubbleheaded nation that is used to conveniences and lacks a stomach for major war, is going to take on Russia in their neighborhood.
13
The United States has more than twice the population of Russia, more than 4 times its gross domestic product, and more than twice the number of military personnel in active service.
Absent escalating to a nuclear confrontation Russia would have no choice but to defer to an aggressive stance taken against it by the United States.
Absent escalating to a nuclear confrontation Russia would have no choice but to defer to an aggressive stance taken against it by the United States.
Did we like it when Russia put missiles in Cuba?
3
More than one distinguished person has stated that when you look into Vladimir Putin’s eyes you see a stone killer.
That said, when we look into the eyes and examine the records of our statesmen, we see … ineffectiveness. Whether it’s Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton or John Kerry, Putin has successfully feinted, dodged and weaved, and basically gotten what he’s wanted for years. The problem has been that all we’ve been able to come up with to answer his outrages are New York Times editorials about how he’s creating an outlaw state. That and $2.75 will get you a cheap ride on a NYC subway.
What we haven’t done is define effective sanctions against Russia, predict and prevent a dawning Russia-Iran axis, help to stabilize Ukraine, diminish dangerous and provocative moves close to Eastern European states, find a way to AVOID the need to send ground troops in to save Aleppo, and generally contain a man who clearly doesn’t play by the rules.
There’s no point in forever re-hashing the foreign policy failures of several years ago that have led to this state of affairs. We need to accept that Vladimir Putin isn’t going to respond productively to NYT editorials. What can we do to put the ENTIRETY of his interests at risk in the world?
That said, when we look into the eyes and examine the records of our statesmen, we see … ineffectiveness. Whether it’s Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton or John Kerry, Putin has successfully feinted, dodged and weaved, and basically gotten what he’s wanted for years. The problem has been that all we’ve been able to come up with to answer his outrages are New York Times editorials about how he’s creating an outlaw state. That and $2.75 will get you a cheap ride on a NYC subway.
What we haven’t done is define effective sanctions against Russia, predict and prevent a dawning Russia-Iran axis, help to stabilize Ukraine, diminish dangerous and provocative moves close to Eastern European states, find a way to AVOID the need to send ground troops in to save Aleppo, and generally contain a man who clearly doesn’t play by the rules.
There’s no point in forever re-hashing the foreign policy failures of several years ago that have led to this state of affairs. We need to accept that Vladimir Putin isn’t going to respond productively to NYT editorials. What can we do to put the ENTIRETY of his interests at risk in the world?
13
US ground troops to Aleppo? They would be eaten up and spat out. Surely the 100K children that are in the eastern terrorist run part of that city would pay most dearly.
@Richard: And your solution to Obama's "ineffectiveness" is to hand over America's foreign policy to Donald Trump? A Putin fan who is under the impression that Russia's autocrat so admires him that the two will make beautiful music together? If so, it will be an entirely Russian symphony with Putin threatening our western allies (let alone Ukraine and Syria) with no response at all from Mr. America First, Last and Always.
6
There are two motivations behind the drumbeat of invective against Putin and Russia. One is a return to Cold War. The other is the partisan needs of demonizing Trump by association. When the election is over, we'll see how much of this is lasting, and how much was campaign.
Our defense interests struggled for years to find a threat sufficient to justify our gargantuan military spending. China was not advanced enough, and Russia was in chaos. Now they've got Russia back, and China too, so they are golden for vast funds. Fortunately, they only required spending, not actual war.
Still, the waste of resources from all this will drain us. This is how many great powers went from the richest in the world into bankruptcy and ruin. See Paul Kennedy, The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers.
The attacks on Putin and Russia are hypocritical and overblown. They are doing in Syria what we have not in the region for 15 years. They are doing nothing in Ukraine we have not done repeatedly, since Reagan and the Contras, through creating bin Laden for Afghanistan.
Certainly we have every right to oppose them, and to assert our own best interests. To turn that into a Manichean battle with Evil does not serve us, it just gets in the way of acting smart about this, makes winning more difficult.
We need not turn Ukraine over to Russia, but we picked a fight in their sensitive point, it isn't going well, and it won't help us to declaim the Apocalypse while trying to resolve it. Likewise Syria.
Our defense interests struggled for years to find a threat sufficient to justify our gargantuan military spending. China was not advanced enough, and Russia was in chaos. Now they've got Russia back, and China too, so they are golden for vast funds. Fortunately, they only required spending, not actual war.
Still, the waste of resources from all this will drain us. This is how many great powers went from the richest in the world into bankruptcy and ruin. See Paul Kennedy, The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers.
The attacks on Putin and Russia are hypocritical and overblown. They are doing in Syria what we have not in the region for 15 years. They are doing nothing in Ukraine we have not done repeatedly, since Reagan and the Contras, through creating bin Laden for Afghanistan.
Certainly we have every right to oppose them, and to assert our own best interests. To turn that into a Manichean battle with Evil does not serve us, it just gets in the way of acting smart about this, makes winning more difficult.
We need not turn Ukraine over to Russia, but we picked a fight in their sensitive point, it isn't going well, and it won't help us to declaim the Apocalypse while trying to resolve it. Likewise Syria.
222
Your comments are profoundly wrong. He has made it very clear that the West is his sworn enemy and force is the only thing that he understands. This is exactly the kind of mentality and logic that allows Putin to push forward. Why do you persist in it?
17
"They are doing nothing in Ukraine we have not done repeatedly"
What has the US annexed under Obama? Of course, to you, Putin's annexation of Crimea is "nothing"; you only get upset about annexation when its the Israeli rightwing threatening to annex the West Bank. Double standards? I'd say so.
What has the US annexed under Obama? Of course, to you, Putin's annexation of Crimea is "nothing"; you only get upset about annexation when its the Israeli rightwing threatening to annex the West Bank. Double standards? I'd say so.
16
Mike Halpern -- It is a big difference that most of the population of Crimea wanted to be annexed, voted for it. The West Bank population wants to be independent, a separate nation, and Israel itself needs that separation to remain both Jewish and democratic. Crimea was Russian as long as the US has existed, while the West Bank has never been Israel.
5
The world is taking an awfully long time to wake up to the obvious.
Russia needs to be ostracised one hundred percent. Politically, they
are not human; and Putin has Asperger's.
Russia needs to be ostracised one hundred percent. Politically, they
are not human; and Putin has Asperger's.
30
Says the Brit, whose nation created famines in Ireland and India, wars all over the world, the only animal nation is yours.
4
Humanism also a function of political interests.
See Yuval Noah Harari's book:Homo Deus[Vintage].
See Yuval Noah Harari's book:Homo Deus[Vintage].
What can we expect from a Bolshevik, who like his Hero, paranoid Stalin, wants to expand the current Federation Empire, by killing innocent people and suppressing freedom of choice. PEACE, ORDER & GOOD GOVERNMENT are missing from his vocabulary.
16
I don't think'paranoid' adequately describes a butcher, Lucifer himself.
3
Give an example of at least one country where the United States did not destroy all
spreading "democracy"!
spreading "democracy"!
3
Obama is responsible for far more deaths worldwide than is Putin over the past 8 yrs. Who do you think you are kidding?
1
Russians are learning from Americans on military interventions in foreign countries. Show the strength by beating up the weak. Our military intervention is focused on regime change and Russians focus on preserving the regime. This is like playing soccer and Syria is soccer ball. The greatness and the real strength of a nation comes from preventing wars and not in engaging in wars.
31
Sadly neither the US nor Russia understand this point because of greed.
OK. But the US seems to specialize in keeping their eye off the ball. And that is China. Russia poses no threat to us. Nor does Iran. China however has violated every law that should result in sanctions or worse. Land grab. Industrial espionage. Human rights. And fixing currency. They are a threat. Read your history.
23
Agreed. China and Saudi Arabia are the largest threats. I would not agree that Iran is not a threat.
4
Putin, is obviously attempting to reestablish Stalin's USSR, and you don't see this as a threat to the US?
10
Nonsense, China wants unfettered access to the Pacific ocean without having to bypass US naval bases. It will soon get it when the Phillipines throws the US out.
1
What do you expect of a checkist?
The lack of morality in Russian intelligence/security services is proverbial be they Romanov, Communist, or now Putin. Advantage is their only goal. At all costs, any cost, and what ever the cost.
Expect no changes till Russians decide that like after the Soviet Coup against Gorbachev, that they will confront the Putin regime regardless of risk.
Firmness, resolve, and strength of purpose are our only option here.
What do you expect of a checkist.
The lack of morality in Russian intelligence/security services is proverbial be they Romanov, Communist, or now Putin. Advantage is their only goal. At all costs, any cost, and what ever the cost.
Expect no changes till Russians decide that like after the Soviet Coup against Gorbachev, that they will confront the Putin regime regardless of risk.
Firmness, resolve, and strength of purpose are our only option here.
What do you expect of a checkist.
7
Good luck waiting for the Russians to confront Putin. Recent polls show 80 % population support. Has any US president had this level of confidence?
2
You can utter the same about US intelligence services.
Not hard to achieve when anyone who expresses opposition gets "disappeared" or worse.
4
" administration officials said that such a response [direct military intervention in Syria] is again under consideration. why do they bother to say this? Obama lost the ability to intimidate any foreign country with his 'Syrian red line' fiasco.
4
lets go over there and kill kill kill - and then of course rebuild and create a wonderful nation in our own image - how does that work out?
25
If Putin is killing so many helpless people, why does the democratic part of the world, which is definitely not perfect but aspires to follow United Nations principles, reward his state with an international tournament that legitimizes Russian government. As always they'll claim politics, war and cruelty should not interfere with sports, but Russia has corrupts sports too and it's time the rest of the world realize what a cancer it is in the world. MOVE THE 2018 WORLD CUP BEFORE ITS "TOO LATE"!