Is this really a "plan" or just more of Elon Musk's bravado? Saying that you want to set up a colony on Mars is not really visionary - it has been imagined by children and sic-fi fans for decades. Even with his SpaceX rockets, Mr Musk is standing on the shoulders of giants, scientists and engineers at NASA and related agencies. Does he really have any new ideas about how to do this or what he would accomplish by doing so? Is it wise to rely on a commercial enterprise and entrepreneur (which are mostly about making money) to accomplish something like this rather than successful scientific agencies? I hope the public doesn't give up on government support for space exploration because of a businessman's claims to want to do so.
7
The technical aspects of the whole project are ridiculously daunting... Yet they are nothing compared to the human aspect. It's taken us thousands of years to build a world where at least some lucky places are fairly free of crime and oppression. In your Mars colony, all of that goes down the drain in, say, three weeks.
There are always going to be critics and naysayers, but the fact of the matter is that this is one of those goals that, even if it is never quite realized, will yield enough advances to make it worthwhile.
Just as a counterpoint to all the critics who persistently insist that space programs are not relevant to problems on Earth, here's a casual (Wikipedia) sampling of SOME spin-off technologies from space exploration: infrared thermometers, heart pumps, artificial limbs, medical LEDs, scratch-resistant lenses, aircraft anti-icing systems, chemical detection advances, video enhancing and analysis systems, fire-resistant materials (including those coating the steel frames of high-rises), enriched baby food, freeze dried foods, advanced water purification, solar cells, pollution remediation (like the microencapsulating tech that removes petroleum-based pollutants from water), structural analysis software, OpenStack cloud computing, powdered lubricants, advanced mine and food safety tech... this is in addition to the mountain of software available to the public at large for no cost.
Let's also bear in mind these are the BYPRODUCTS of space exploration. We haven't even begun to tap the actual resources available in space. Shall we claw out each other's eyes fighting over crumbs and destroying our environment to get them? Or shall we try to use the abundant resources elsewhere?
Just as a counterpoint to all the critics who persistently insist that space programs are not relevant to problems on Earth, here's a casual (Wikipedia) sampling of SOME spin-off technologies from space exploration: infrared thermometers, heart pumps, artificial limbs, medical LEDs, scratch-resistant lenses, aircraft anti-icing systems, chemical detection advances, video enhancing and analysis systems, fire-resistant materials (including those coating the steel frames of high-rises), enriched baby food, freeze dried foods, advanced water purification, solar cells, pollution remediation (like the microencapsulating tech that removes petroleum-based pollutants from water), structural analysis software, OpenStack cloud computing, powdered lubricants, advanced mine and food safety tech... this is in addition to the mountain of software available to the public at large for no cost.
Let's also bear in mind these are the BYPRODUCTS of space exploration. We haven't even begun to tap the actual resources available in space. Shall we claw out each other's eyes fighting over crumbs and destroying our environment to get them? Or shall we try to use the abundant resources elsewhere?
7
Like clockwork, every other week Musk must comes out and talks about some ridiculous project just so he gets into the 'tech' news cycle. Hyperloop, mars, etc., are just ploys to generate news 'stories'. There is an enormous technical gap between generating mars videos and actually perform the act--which he glossed over. Meanwhile, his 1965-NASA-equivalent rocket is still not manned-rated and keeps blowing up (~7% failure rate). Musk is just a stager of stunts (maybe to promote Tesla?), no more.
4
Many commenters are criticizing his critics without know the facts of long distance space travel, even short distance travel- high levels of radiation, Cosmic radiation on the human body. Currently and in the forseeable future there is no way of shielding humans from this radiation once we leave our magnetic field. Just a quick Wikipedia check or googling it one can find out the impossibility of providing adequate shileding for space travelers to Mars. A person wil be exposed to hundreds of times the amount of Cosmic rays compared to a person at sea level on earth. Save your money and time Mr Musk, you're supposedly a bright guy. Maybe not in this case.
1
As a scientist, I would love to see geologists sent to Mars, spend some time there and come back with a boatload of samples for analysis back on Earth. To truly understand what makes the Earth special - why it was suitable for life to arise and thrive for at least the past 3 and half billion years - we need to explore other planets that developed in a different way - ways inhospitable to life. Maybe Musk's rocket can help get them there.
As to Musk's question, can things grow in Martian soil, probably (in some places toxic substances like perchlorates - bleach - have been found), but much more slowly since there is a lot less sunshine. In any case, NASA would never let him try, at least not until we are completely sure there is no life of any kind of Mars. And that's going to take some scientific expeditions. Growing stuff would be critical to any colony, so the bottom line is no colonists in his lifetime.
For the foreseeable future Mars will be a nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there.
As to Musk's question, can things grow in Martian soil, probably (in some places toxic substances like perchlorates - bleach - have been found), but much more slowly since there is a lot less sunshine. In any case, NASA would never let him try, at least not until we are completely sure there is no life of any kind of Mars. And that's going to take some scientific expeditions. Growing stuff would be critical to any colony, so the bottom line is no colonists in his lifetime.
For the foreseeable future Mars will be a nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there.
The logistics and time are sufficient to make this a doubtful enterprise. We aren't colonizing anywhere for a very, very long time...maybe, and not many will be doing so. Rooting for a visionary simply does not change any of the realities. and to what purpose? Complaining about negative comments is silly. Those of us who see more than a visionary's dreams may simply have a more realistic assessment of them. Space travel is so overrated.
Eclectic Pragmatist — http://eclectic-pragmatist.tumblr.com/
Eclectic Pragmatist — https://medium.com/eclectic-pragmatism
Eclectic Pragmatist — http://eclectic-pragmatist.tumblr.com/
Eclectic Pragmatist — https://medium.com/eclectic-pragmatism
1
If human beings can't even stop warring here on Earth, what is the point of even attempting to travel to, and colonize other planets? I believe there will come a time, maybe sometime within the next 50 or 60 years, that we build and manage colonies on Mars and the Moon, and maybe a few of the Outer Rim moons. But at what cost? Human beings are a warlike species, I truly dread the day that we spread our warlike minds through the cosmos. Our primary goal as a species at this point should be focused on 2 points: Ending War, Securing Resources From Other Planets. Our Gaia is clearly dying, she won't be able to sustain life, as we know it, for very much longer. We will need more water, fuel, and living space. The universe literally has an infinite amount of these things, and with our advances in technology these things will be attainable, but only if we end all war. War is like a cancer, it spreads throughout the population much like cancer spreads from one body part to another.
I will say this much: If we take Star Wars technology into space and start killing each other through space, humanity may end up being another extinct relic of the cosmic past of the universe.
I will say this much: If we take Star Wars technology into space and start killing each other through space, humanity may end up being another extinct relic of the cosmic past of the universe.
2
people love to live a fantasy world and to spend their time trying to make the obvious impossible , possible.
A colony of a million people?
There is no breathable atmosphere on Mars, and there is no known usable source of water in quantities that would sustain human life.
I'm waiting for one of these "visionaries" need to explain to us how those little bitty obstacles will be overcome.
There is no breathable atmosphere on Mars, and there is no known usable source of water in quantities that would sustain human life.
I'm waiting for one of these "visionaries" need to explain to us how those little bitty obstacles will be overcome.
10
There is always going to be crap here for us to complain about. There's always going to be naysayers and the mudstuck. Let's do something we are perfectly capable of and would be our greatest adventure to date. Dream a little! Lets go!
5
How about dreaming to save the Earth? Much bigger dream, and priority. The Mars project isnt just a waste of valuable resourses, it would be a horrible death trap.
4
So much negativity. If other folks want to sit at home on the sofa and live a safe dull life, go ahead, but I think it sounds like a great idea.
14
Leave Mars to the Martians. Solve the big problems on Earth first. There are many of them and with all the brains and money Mr Musk seems to be able to muster, he might just solve a few, and perhaps avoid the need to colonize another planet which is so inhospitable.
5
Decades ago my high school chemistry teacher told us it would be much easier, less expensive, and less risky to populate the oceans. I suppose if the object is to escape nuclear annihilation that may not work, but it still seems a better bet than Mars. At least--it's closer and easier to get to--we could even visit our relatives there, perhaps.
What all of this points to is the likelihood of private ownership of various planets and other space bodies. In the old science fiction movies from the 1950s, there was the suggestion of government-funded space expeditions, which would seem to imply that outer space is the new frontier where, potentially, everyone would have the right to access and explore in the future. The idea of a new frontier open to everyone was the real and unacknowledged basis for the popularity of space-travel movies and novels of the past.
2
Missing from all discussion of this project is its objective. "It's so cool" doesn't qualify. If we want scientific observation and data, there's no reason robotic exploration and remote control can't achieve at least 95% of that.
Yes there are always intrepid people who would go to Mars because it's there. But this makes no more sense than the resources spent rescuing over-empowered mountain-climbers. Yes, we must save them, but why should we be put in the position to do so?
At the very least, we should commit to a parallel, rapid development of artificial intelligence, of which Watson's parlor tricks are the merest beginning. How can we send people to a lifeless world without that kind of assistance? Clearly, only if AIs prepare the way, by establishing safe habitats, can we even think of sending "1 million people" to Mars, even if they volunteer. Musk blithely says people will die on this mission. How nice of him to acknowledge this.
Yes, the idea of a Mars colony is intriguing and could yield important perspectives on the nature of the universe. But a mission on this scale has to wait until we can assure we aren't sending people to a morbid fate of radiation sickness, starvation, or as yet unnamed diseases that might result from this alien environment.
The question is not whether we should do this, but whether Musk’s and Bazos’ breathless ambition is less a matter of advancing human civilization and more a matter of securing someone's place in History.
Yes there are always intrepid people who would go to Mars because it's there. But this makes no more sense than the resources spent rescuing over-empowered mountain-climbers. Yes, we must save them, but why should we be put in the position to do so?
At the very least, we should commit to a parallel, rapid development of artificial intelligence, of which Watson's parlor tricks are the merest beginning. How can we send people to a lifeless world without that kind of assistance? Clearly, only if AIs prepare the way, by establishing safe habitats, can we even think of sending "1 million people" to Mars, even if they volunteer. Musk blithely says people will die on this mission. How nice of him to acknowledge this.
Yes, the idea of a Mars colony is intriguing and could yield important perspectives on the nature of the universe. But a mission on this scale has to wait until we can assure we aren't sending people to a morbid fate of radiation sickness, starvation, or as yet unnamed diseases that might result from this alien environment.
The question is not whether we should do this, but whether Musk’s and Bazos’ breathless ambition is less a matter of advancing human civilization and more a matter of securing someone's place in History.
2
As someone in AI let me assure we could do more good science on the Martian surface with Musk and the contents of his pockets yesterday than any AI likely to be available in the mission time frame or for some time thereafter (and if you can AI you will beat not only the Watson team but everyone else. Working in the area)
Nobody is asking you or anyone of the dirt huggers posting here to go or to even approve.
Nobody is asking you or anyone of the dirt huggers posting here to go or to even approve.
1
I will sign up, if and when I learn whether during this space voyage, Mars colonists will be served soup.
2
Enough with the Rockets. Rockets will not get us to any important destinations. We need faster than the speed of light many times over to really get into space adventures...
Propelled on "new waves" ... What makes light travel???
Propelled on "new waves" ... What makes light travel???
2
If Musk makes the trip with 100 other colonists, it will turn out to be another "Lost colony of Roanoke of 1587" and the end of these people on Mars. It won't be local martians that will wipe them out, but the lack of supplies and agronomical deficiencies on a meteorological hostile scale. The colony would be dead inside of a year.
OK, I'm a bit fed up with all this "go to Mars" crap. Let's get real and invest, (private and public) in systems that will INSURE that Earth is not destroyed by an Asteroid or sudden Comet. And if you want to get more "sexy", let's do more deep space observation to enrich our Cosmos and Physics understanding which might contribute to accelerated development of new propulsion methods.
I know the starry-eyed dreamers still have what I call the "Jean-luc Picard" fantasy, but again— we need to be real.
I know the starry-eyed dreamers still have what I call the "Jean-luc Picard" fantasy, but again— we need to be real.
1
1. Musk is brilliant, imaginative and a lot more honest than many of our politicians: "The chances of dying on that first trip to Mars, he said, are “quite high.”
2. Considering the length of time that members of every Mars expedition will be locked up together in a very small space, one of the most likely causes of death will be murder. The psychological stresses under such conditions are daunting: http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4225/long-duration/long.htm . And here’s a quotation from http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a154051.pdf : “Astronaut Schweichart experienced the interpersonal conflict aboard Apollo 9 and correctly predicted that as future missions get longer and the crews larger, more intense interpersonal hostilities would occur.”
2. Considering the length of time that members of every Mars expedition will be locked up together in a very small space, one of the most likely causes of death will be murder. The psychological stresses under such conditions are daunting: http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4225/long-duration/long.htm . And here’s a quotation from http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a154051.pdf : “Astronaut Schweichart experienced the interpersonal conflict aboard Apollo 9 and correctly predicted that as future missions get longer and the crews larger, more intense interpersonal hostilities would occur.”
3
I would like to know what Elon Musk is smoking. Our whole reality now revolves around Trump and I am desperate to have some grand visions without the side effects of LSD.
1
Put Elon on the first ship to Mars. Between rocket explosions and car crashes, I still want to know who gave him control of space and our roads.
I'm not even reading this article... our desire to get to Mars is a wild dream... Right now, we cannot reliably get to the International Space Station.... We have not returned to the moon... Let's get back to the moon, build facilities there... live there... and once we master that challenge... consider moving beyond the moon... spend your money on getting back to the moon, or solving problems here on Earth...
1
Maybe Musk should get a load of cargo intact to the ISS first, before you look at Mars.
He has
1
He already has multiple times next time pay attention
1
Problem is Mr Musk always expects the public to do the heavy lifting for him. His current endeavors would be in bankruptcy if he weren't solidly attached and gorging from the public teat.
I see a lot of negative comments that we should work on things at home. I wonder just how many people like their computers? These, after all, were born from the space age. There are many more things that came from our going into space. Who knows what type of plants or experiments on Mars may lead to advances here on earth. You talk about fuel being a bad thing from our planet-he is using solar power which can also lead to advances her if successful. It might not be too long (in the history of our planet) that warp drive is available. We just do not know how to harness the power into a drive yet. I, for one if he wanted to run an experimental ship for two-count me and my wife on board. We would take the ride. In fact this earlier mission was scrubbed for some reason. What we learn in space will lead to advances on earth from medicine to food to hygienic living of a special kind, etc. Beam me up Scotty!
2
I would like to add that the first spacecraft to use solar panels was the Vanguard 1 satellite, launched by the US in 1958.
Now solar panels are becoming ubiquitous in emerging economies and helping lift many out of poverty. Small businesses (think sewing machines and embroidery under an electric bulb) help many in villages to earn a decent living and increases productivity. The solar panels would not have become ubiquitous had we not ventured out to space.
Science has offshoots. And we hopefully will find solutions to solve earthy problems. Last but not the least, we need to spend on education so that our efforts to make good on such dreams do not go waste.
Now solar panels are becoming ubiquitous in emerging economies and helping lift many out of poverty. Small businesses (think sewing machines and embroidery under an electric bulb) help many in villages to earn a decent living and increases productivity. The solar panels would not have become ubiquitous had we not ventured out to space.
Science has offshoots. And we hopefully will find solutions to solve earthy problems. Last but not the least, we need to spend on education so that our efforts to make good on such dreams do not go waste.
2
Why?
1
Why not?
4
Radiation and lower gravity....
What will be the life expectancy of a colonist?
Will it be possible to have children on Mars, or will birth defects (from the constant radiation) mean new colonists will have to be constantly shipped in to replenish the colony?
And finally, what of the 10+ billion here on Earth by the time this starts to happen? Are we to just simply walk around feeling chuffed at such vast amounts of the Earth's wealth being used to colonize Mars?
Somehow I do not see that working out for very long.
What will be the life expectancy of a colonist?
Will it be possible to have children on Mars, or will birth defects (from the constant radiation) mean new colonists will have to be constantly shipped in to replenish the colony?
And finally, what of the 10+ billion here on Earth by the time this starts to happen? Are we to just simply walk around feeling chuffed at such vast amounts of the Earth's wealth being used to colonize Mars?
Somehow I do not see that working out for very long.
2
They could go to Mars, but, World Law still applies.
What is the main difference between Elon Musk's imagination and those of other dreamers? He tenaciously and repeatedly achieves his dreams, over and over and over again. Don't ever underestimate rare people like him.
6
I agree with the poster who types that Musk spreads himself so thin.
But I am a skeptical of someone who raises so much of Other People's
Money for his capitalist adventures. I takes massive amounts of money
to support the guy's lifestyle.
But I am a skeptical of someone who raises so much of Other People's
Money for his capitalist adventures. I takes massive amounts of money
to support the guy's lifestyle.
It's a symptom of narcissism. He wants as much credit as he wants for his own ego.
My God, this guy again. I'm starting to think he's an ADHD egomaniac on steroids, expert on burning other people's money.
He was successful with Paypal (some say lucky), and then...
Still hasn't turned a profit with Tesla, nor Spacex, wants to build a giant vacuum tube between two cities, and now colonize Mars.
Not to mention the propensity of his products to explode.
Must be nice to have billions of other people's money to play with.
He was successful with Paypal (some say lucky), and then...
Still hasn't turned a profit with Tesla, nor Spacex, wants to build a giant vacuum tube between two cities, and now colonize Mars.
Not to mention the propensity of his products to explode.
Must be nice to have billions of other people's money to play with.
These types often appear to be hypomanic.
1
Nice video though.
No oxygen, no water, no vegetation, temps falling to -100F.... a great place to live. This guy is a loon and his plan is insane and he deserves no respect.
If anything, going to Mars is a good excuse for cutting edge space travel. I imagine many useful and profitable technologies may come of it.
Let's be frank here. Does anyone really want to live on Mars?
Let's be frank here. Does anyone really want to live on Mars?
2
Dreaming BIG and realizing them is what has advanced the human race. If we start calculating whether the money could be spend on other things the answer will always be Yes.
Science and exploration is not a business but what is learned from can be used for all human kind.
Should need be I have the perfect "Candidate" and first customer for the trip. Despite his ego and wealth I know of a lot of people who would be happy to help pay for his ticket.
Science and exploration is not a business but what is learned from can be used for all human kind.
Should need be I have the perfect "Candidate" and first customer for the trip. Despite his ego and wealth I know of a lot of people who would be happy to help pay for his ticket.
3
All human progress comes from visionaries. This is true whether it comes to science, sociology, art or philosophy. If we all the restricted our imaginations like the "we have problems here on earth" crowd, humans would still be living in the sub-Saharan brush. Space exploration pushes all aspects of our drive and imagination to its absolute limits. That is how all real progress is truly made. Progress in everything from medicine to energy, climatology and material science has been accelerated or inspired by space exploration. Military conquest is the only other unfortunate driver of human progress to a degree on par with space pioneering. The latter is far more rewarding.
6
Now, look at the catastrophic nature of Progress. As conceived and realized thus far, Progress has been disastrous for humans, animals and their habitats.
Your "visionaries" lack vision.
Your "visionaries" lack vision.
Seriously, this all reads like so much Robert Heinlein science fiction. Even down to the cigar shaped rocket landing on retractable gear. This mission cannot be accomplished burning so very much chemical propellant. Too many moving parts here, as well. As recent history has proven, too many variable, too many unknowns.
Also, anything that can happen here can happen on Mars, too: asteroids, environmental disasters, etc. Earth is better equipped to survive such accidents and protect the people, too. A better plan for the preservation of the species would be terran based solutions.
I'm a huge sci-fi fan and I know sci-fi when I read it. THIS is sci-fi...and not especially exciting sci-fi either.
Also, anything that can happen here can happen on Mars, too: asteroids, environmental disasters, etc. Earth is better equipped to survive such accidents and protect the people, too. A better plan for the preservation of the species would be terran based solutions.
I'm a huge sci-fi fan and I know sci-fi when I read it. THIS is sci-fi...and not especially exciting sci-fi either.
Musk actually employs hundreds of scientists and engineers who know exactly how to calculate all of this. It may not happen, but I'm quite sure the physics trained Musk and his team of rocket scientists know how to compute weight, fuel, thrust and trajectory. They did make the first privately funded cargo rocket to successfully launch payloads into orbit and return them safely to earth. They were also the first to soft land an orbital class booster on land for reuse. Everybody in aerospace is scrambling to replicate the ideas he has already brought to fruition. Yes, Musk has had a few recent anomalies. This is no more than any other company or government doing the difficult work of rocketry. He has moved the entire industry twenty five years forward, in under a dozen. Don't underestimate the skills of Mr. Musk, nor those of his young and capable team of workaholic geniuses.
8
It takes scientist, engineers and designers to design the ships to go to Mars. It takes military planners to understand the logistics, risks and precautions to get there and back. People of experience not MBA's. You would need an armada of robots and satellites to map and plan exactly where the best landing areas that would allow people to survive. Most of all you need more than passangers to keep such vessels operational.
You've seen Mind of Musk at work wit his self driving cars. My advice he should hire Bosch and Russia to do his heavy lifting. That is if he could get them to stop laughing. Maybe he could get his cousins to help.
You've seen Mind of Musk at work wit his self driving cars. My advice he should hire Bosch and Russia to do his heavy lifting. That is if he could get them to stop laughing. Maybe he could get his cousins to help.
Cousin's. I think you meant cousin's. I mean, if you're going to essentially call someone dumb...
With the right amount of government subsidies, Musk can accomplish anything...or nothing. He needs to get his SpaceX rockets to keep from exploding. How about that Elon?
3
Far more than the argument that "we should take care of things on Earth first" (human space exploration is not a zero-sum alternative to developing alternative energy sources and helping the impoverished parts of the globe, quite the opposite) what does give me pause is this: "Mars has long been the goal of Mr. Musk and SpaceX."
One question: WHY? If you're actually serious about establishing a permanent presence on another planet and not just looking for a cosmic-scale Evel Knievel stunt, the case for returning to the Moon is far stronger in terms of ease of access and long term practicality. The one advantage Mars has is its atmosphere, but the air pressure, 1% of Earth's, makes that a negligible consideration. There are vast underground lava tubes on the Moon that could be sealed off to provide large habitats with built-in protection from cosmic rays. The Moon has water and all the elements needed to provide a permanent manufacturing base from which the rest of the solar system--Mars included--would be much more accessible. Can a much more distant and hard to reach colony on Mars make that claim? The fact that the Moon has all these advantages, yet is largely absent even from consideration, along with the fact that we have never bothered to follow up on the trail the Apollo missions pioneered for us, bespeaks a lack of seriousness of purpose ("The Moon? Meh. Been there, done that") that doesn't bode well for the success of these even more grandiose schemes.
One question: WHY? If you're actually serious about establishing a permanent presence on another planet and not just looking for a cosmic-scale Evel Knievel stunt, the case for returning to the Moon is far stronger in terms of ease of access and long term practicality. The one advantage Mars has is its atmosphere, but the air pressure, 1% of Earth's, makes that a negligible consideration. There are vast underground lava tubes on the Moon that could be sealed off to provide large habitats with built-in protection from cosmic rays. The Moon has water and all the elements needed to provide a permanent manufacturing base from which the rest of the solar system--Mars included--would be much more accessible. Can a much more distant and hard to reach colony on Mars make that claim? The fact that the Moon has all these advantages, yet is largely absent even from consideration, along with the fact that we have never bothered to follow up on the trail the Apollo missions pioneered for us, bespeaks a lack of seriousness of purpose ("The Moon? Meh. Been there, done that") that doesn't bode well for the success of these even more grandiose schemes.
3
Mr. Musk clearly can't Teleport, or some call it Mindport. His plan, really, seems so "behind-the-times." Hopefully in the near Future, this approach to transportation, Mindporting, will be happening among the mass population. I think they were questioning recently: "do we still need Airport Buildings and Ticket services". But, of course, the airplanes are gone. (if they ever were in the first place). I am not sure if they are going to Ticket some other way. Thus Mr. Musk's PayPal also seems so "behind-the-times". And those who purchased PayPal etcetera.
I admire Musk's genius - but think he is spreading himself thin. Why not focus on his electric car + batteries to help solve our looming climate crisis before blowing CO2 and Dollars on reaching an inhospitable planet.
There is more visionary work to do to keep this planet hospitable before embarking on a less hospitable place.
There is more visionary work to do to keep this planet hospitable before embarking on a less hospitable place.
1
What a dolt. Let's take care of this planet instead of trashing another.
2
A 100-passenger Mars rocket in 8 years, for only 10 billion? Right. Yeah. Sure thing. This is from the fellow who can't even get humans to low Earth orbit, whose rockets blow up on a regular basis, who thought he could build a vacuum-train system from San Francisco to LA for 2 billion, and whose car company is getting beat to the punch by GM. His ideas may be grand, but his grasp of physical reality is limited.
How about if we learn how to maintain this planet before we start screwing up another one?
22
Scenarios from history had the typical NYT commenter lived then:
Spain, 1492: "Hey Columbus, stop wasting money on those ships. Don't you know we could use that cash to solve problems here in Europe? Why go across the ocean looking for new lands? You'll never find anything worthwhile."
Dayton, Ohio, 1903: "Hey, Wright Brothers, stop wasting money on that flying machine. You know it's useless and will never work. We have problems right here in Dayton. Give the money to the local temperance society and they'll do something more useful with it."
The point is, humanity will always have problems to deal with on Earth. That doesn't mean we shouldn't devote some of our time, money and efforts to dreaming of new worlds and exploration. If we don't, we lose some of our humanity. What was it that made us climb down from the trees in the first place?
Spain, 1492: "Hey Columbus, stop wasting money on those ships. Don't you know we could use that cash to solve problems here in Europe? Why go across the ocean looking for new lands? You'll never find anything worthwhile."
Dayton, Ohio, 1903: "Hey, Wright Brothers, stop wasting money on that flying machine. You know it's useless and will never work. We have problems right here in Dayton. Give the money to the local temperance society and they'll do something more useful with it."
The point is, humanity will always have problems to deal with on Earth. That doesn't mean we shouldn't devote some of our time, money and efforts to dreaming of new worlds and exploration. If we don't, we lose some of our humanity. What was it that made us climb down from the trees in the first place?
89
Wow. Maybe some history. Lauding an agent of royalty gets you nowhere. And flying machines are among the most terrible things we humans have done to the planet and ourselves.
Lots of people make this romantic analogy. You forget one fundamental difference. The new lands across the seas were guaranteed to have air and water.
Branching out !
Same as now.
Same as now.
1
We can eliminate poverty, pollution, wars , disease , anything we like.
All it takes is will, money and cooperation. We as a people can do and go anywhere we want, so long as we work together. I celebrate visionaries like Mr Musk and hope that any great idea is not squashed by only lack of will or money.
All I hope is that if we do actually make it somewhere and find a new civilization, that we don't usurp them like we have to so many here on earth.
All it takes is will, money and cooperation. We as a people can do and go anywhere we want, so long as we work together. I celebrate visionaries like Mr Musk and hope that any great idea is not squashed by only lack of will or money.
All I hope is that if we do actually make it somewhere and find a new civilization, that we don't usurp them like we have to so many here on earth.
15
Here it is again, folks. What Gary Greenberg calls America's one true religion: optimism. It is imposed on us no matter the subject. It is a scourge.
@Henry
''There are grounds for cautious optimism that we may now be near the end of the search for the ultimate laws of nature.''
Stephen Hawking
BTW.. No one imposed on you to be here or even comment.
HAVE A NICE DAY.
l
''There are grounds for cautious optimism that we may now be near the end of the search for the ultimate laws of nature.''
Stephen Hawking
BTW.. No one imposed on you to be here or even comment.
HAVE A NICE DAY.
l
3
Quoting a technophile is simply more of the same. Please note the history of people claiming complete knowledge at regular intervals. My goodness how fatuous, arrogant and shortsighted.
Yes, optimism is imposed: you can read books about this historical tendency if you're interested. Or you can simply re-read your comments here to see your participation in enforcing the project.
And please tun off the caps lock. It doesn't become you.
Yes, optimism is imposed: you can read books about this historical tendency if you're interested. Or you can simply re-read your comments here to see your participation in enforcing the project.
And please tun off the caps lock. It doesn't become you.
You have to remember that humanity is used to travel to far flung places with a very high mortality rate, we've been doing it for centuries. Waves of English migrants (aka settlers) fled England in the 1620s and 30s in rickety little wooden boats to sail across the Atlantic to North America. The mortality rate was breathtakingly high: you had something like a 30% chance or less of surviving the crossing and the first winter in New England.
The reasons for willing to risk one's life is clear, as we are seeing the the Middle Eastern and African migrants today: pure desperation. I can easily see our getting to the point when life on this planet becomes so unbearable that taking a chance on Mars will be worth it. I can even see the glossy marketing brochures describing an artificial Shangri-La with people living in peace and harmony.
Elon Musk can of course not talk about this scenario, but this is what is driving this early fascination with the idea. It took the 16th English a few decades to develop the technology and warm up to the idea of bouncing around the middle of the Atlantic in a wobbly bathtub...
The reasons for willing to risk one's life is clear, as we are seeing the the Middle Eastern and African migrants today: pure desperation. I can easily see our getting to the point when life on this planet becomes so unbearable that taking a chance on Mars will be worth it. I can even see the glossy marketing brochures describing an artificial Shangri-La with people living in peace and harmony.
Elon Musk can of course not talk about this scenario, but this is what is driving this early fascination with the idea. It took the 16th English a few decades to develop the technology and warm up to the idea of bouncing around the middle of the Atlantic in a wobbly bathtub...
2
Can you also see life on this planet sustaining itself for, say, another billion years? As it has for a few billion prior?
If not, I submit that our bizarre lifeway has us so colonized and bamboozled that we can no longer even conceive of acting in our own self-interest. Yet it is possible to do so. It involves stepping back far enough to understand that Progress is a cage of horrors.
We appear to be locked into an inevitable playing out of the game of infinite growth. If we do not reimagine and reconstitute our approach, the outcome is clear: more of the same ongoing catastrophe, only more so.
Like all other such desperate projects, going to Mars will come in a bit over budget and behind schedule, to say the very least. And at vile, terrifying cost to the great majority of humans and animals.
This is a further playing out of the vision and logic of slums and private gated compounds. Biospheres for the few, both here and on other planets, and lesser accommodations for the many. Sure thing. Sign me up.
If not, I submit that our bizarre lifeway has us so colonized and bamboozled that we can no longer even conceive of acting in our own self-interest. Yet it is possible to do so. It involves stepping back far enough to understand that Progress is a cage of horrors.
We appear to be locked into an inevitable playing out of the game of infinite growth. If we do not reimagine and reconstitute our approach, the outcome is clear: more of the same ongoing catastrophe, only more so.
Like all other such desperate projects, going to Mars will come in a bit over budget and behind schedule, to say the very least. And at vile, terrifying cost to the great majority of humans and animals.
This is a further playing out of the vision and logic of slums and private gated compounds. Biospheres for the few, both here and on other planets, and lesser accommodations for the many. Sure thing. Sign me up.
I offer the following quotes from others who have said it much better than I could hope to do:
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out where the strong man stumbled or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred with dust and sweat and blood. At best, he knows the triumph of high achievement; if he fails at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat.
Theodore Roosevelt
No pessimist ever discovered the secrets of the stars or sailed an uncharted sea.
Helen Keller
A man's mind, stretched by a new idea, can never go back to its original dimensions.
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: The music is nothing if the audience is deaf.
Walter Lippman
Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood and probably will themselves not be realized. Make big plans; aim high in hope and work, remembering that a noble, logical diagram once recorded will not die.
- Daniel Burnham
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
- T.S. Eliot
Everyone takes the limits of his own vision for the limits of the world
- Arthur Schopenhauer
If everything seems under control, you’re not going fast enough.
- Mario Andretti
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out where the strong man stumbled or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred with dust and sweat and blood. At best, he knows the triumph of high achievement; if he fails at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat.
Theodore Roosevelt
No pessimist ever discovered the secrets of the stars or sailed an uncharted sea.
Helen Keller
A man's mind, stretched by a new idea, can never go back to its original dimensions.
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: The music is nothing if the audience is deaf.
Walter Lippman
Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood and probably will themselves not be realized. Make big plans; aim high in hope and work, remembering that a noble, logical diagram once recorded will not die.
- Daniel Burnham
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
- T.S. Eliot
Everyone takes the limits of his own vision for the limits of the world
- Arthur Schopenhauer
If everything seems under control, you’re not going fast enough.
- Mario Andretti
45
Andretti's quote says it all. Headlong into the abyss. Keep on hurtling. No thanks.
Seems like a great plan. Let's do it! $10 billion is really a small amount of money compared to the annual federal budget or especially our national debt. A large part of the money could come from private investors--I definitely would send some money! This project would lead to more scientific discoveries, new technologies, new jobs, and be an inspiration for all mankind--to think above the usual mundanities and even miseries of life. Of course, the biggest challenge will be to protect astronauts from the solar radiation experienced during the trip and upon landing and living on the martian surface. However, no challenge is insurmountable--we should invest more research dollars into development of lightweight shielding materials, and in better understanding and manipulation of DNA repair. More research on DNA repair will pay immediate dividends for human health on earth--prevention of cancer, and increasing healthspan and lifespan (and also reduce the costs of healthcare).
1
Wernher von Braun, the famous German rocket scientist who later became one of the moving forces behind our Saturn lunar program, first proposed a mission to Mars in the mid-1940s. Apparently, many scientists who reviewed his plans seem to think that they would have worked. He envisioned sending a fleet of approximately 17 spaceships to Mars not all of which would return.
This has been a dream for a very long time and it is exciting to see that someone is trying to make it a reality. The nature of humankind is to explore the unknown and the unreachable. Once, our moon was unreachable but no longer. Neither is Mars. We will no doubt gain an enormous amount of knowledge in the process. It will also enable us to have a totally different view of who we are and what we are and what we can accomplish. It will open the universe to us as a place that we can explore and populate.
This has been a dream for a very long time and it is exciting to see that someone is trying to make it a reality. The nature of humankind is to explore the unknown and the unreachable. Once, our moon was unreachable but no longer. Neither is Mars. We will no doubt gain an enormous amount of knowledge in the process. It will also enable us to have a totally different view of who we are and what we are and what we can accomplish. It will open the universe to us as a place that we can explore and populate.
2
Considering our ugly record here on Earth, maybe the universe should be frightened.
I'd be very careful to "short" Musk - he's proven a remarkable ability to put things on the map that seemed farfetched. Go, Elon!
2
Example please. An electric car was hardly far fetched.
He might want to try getting off the launchpad first before going to Mars.
1
Colonise Mars? Sounds like Mr Musk on top of being a visionary is also a megalomaniac. Didn't SpaceX rocket crashed again recently? Perhaps Mr Musk should concentrate more on challenges on hand- Tesla deliveries, SpaceX not crashing- than selling hot air to greedy venture capitalists playing with other people's money!
There is no scientific reason to put people on Mars. Exploration can be done using robots. Both Musk and Bezos are on billionaire ego trips.
Didn't they see the picture of the little Syrian boy dirty and bloody sitting alone in the back of an ambulance. I guess that means nothing to billionaires who just want to play with their toys. Shame!
Didn't they see the picture of the little Syrian boy dirty and bloody sitting alone in the back of an ambulance. I guess that means nothing to billionaires who just want to play with their toys. Shame!
OK, Lots of disbelief and negative reactions. And reasonable me has to agree with some of the Issues put forth so far.
Yes, it seems a lot like science-fiction right now. But the presentation yesterday was more informative and than many other Mars-Mission initiatives ever presented. And looking at his track record lets the child dreamer (and fan of every show set in Space) get inspired and
Concerning living quarters etc. On Mars, that was not yet the focus point of his presentation. His field of vision is to get People there, and especially to start the Ball rolling on ever actually doing so.
Ps. And I don't think he has to do everything with SpaceX, Living quarters would possibly be a great opportunity to Bigelow or a similar Company, which would jump at the chance if his New rocket gets some tests done.
Yes, it seems a lot like science-fiction right now. But the presentation yesterday was more informative and than many other Mars-Mission initiatives ever presented. And looking at his track record lets the child dreamer (and fan of every show set in Space) get inspired and
Concerning living quarters etc. On Mars, that was not yet the focus point of his presentation. His field of vision is to get People there, and especially to start the Ball rolling on ever actually doing so.
Ps. And I don't think he has to do everything with SpaceX, Living quarters would possibly be a great opportunity to Bigelow or a similar Company, which would jump at the chance if his New rocket gets some tests done.
I admire Musk's earthly efforts to create environmentally friendly cars, improved battery technology, and more efficient factories, but this Mars project is a step too far in my opinion. There's so much we need to do to improve the way we manage our own planet that to spend billions of dollars on finding a way to leave it makes me believe that Musk is really looking to forge an ever grander legacy for himself. Instead of moving to a new house because our current house has gotten messy, let's invest those billions in cleaning up our oceans and convincing corporations to not burn rainforests for palm oil.
1
Elon Musk lives in the past clinging to 3,000 year old rocket technology. He is wasting millions of dollars. He is going to wake up one morning and discover that someone has successfully developed a new propulsion system that draws energy from the interaction of electro-magnetism and hydrogen or possibly oxygen from a stable source. Rockets are thermos bottles filled with limited liquid hydrogen thus any flight is vulnerable to unexpected action that draws from this limited fuel.
There are no easy answers but one stated fact is the idea of asking human beings to ride in a weightless environment for months, risk a meteor strike that could disable their craft and to risk solar radiation is a bit much.
I am all for exploring the cosmos and would love to visit Mars. The challenge is to take the next step, find a new and better propulsion method and get serious about on board gravity. Mr. Musk might get a few people on Mars only to see his dream fade away in a few years as the cruel truth becomes obvious. No gravity, no sustainable fuel and all to much dependent on everything working every time. Remember Murphy's Law? History will remember Elon Musk as the last rocketeer!
There are no easy answers but one stated fact is the idea of asking human beings to ride in a weightless environment for months, risk a meteor strike that could disable their craft and to risk solar radiation is a bit much.
I am all for exploring the cosmos and would love to visit Mars. The challenge is to take the next step, find a new and better propulsion method and get serious about on board gravity. Mr. Musk might get a few people on Mars only to see his dream fade away in a few years as the cruel truth becomes obvious. No gravity, no sustainable fuel and all to much dependent on everything working every time. Remember Murphy's Law? History will remember Elon Musk as the last rocketeer!
2
As the cosmic rays, x-rays, and other wonders produced by stars slowly kill our astronauts on their journeys, those of us remaining on earth will wonder why humans when robots can do the same work.
3
The video shows a Single Stage To Orbit vehicle which has enough fuel to land back at launch site.
So much for a 96% fuel mass fraction and orbital dynamics.
Or did I miss something.
So much for a 96% fuel mass fraction and orbital dynamics.
Or did I miss something.
1
Mr. Musk's game seems to be conceiving of ever-more outlandish space ventures in order to elevate his status as a visionary and draw ever more criticism.
This creates a system in which Mr. Musk's standing is based as much on the number and qualifications of his detractors as on the pharaonic scale of his imaginings.
I wonder who will get the last laugh.
This creates a system in which Mr. Musk's standing is based as much on the number and qualifications of his detractors as on the pharaonic scale of his imaginings.
I wonder who will get the last laugh.
2
Lovely visions- but I would be more impressed by Mr. Musk's thinking if these plans included an honest environmental impact statement.
Multiple calculations exist; easy to find. It turns out the actual CO2 put out by the rocket engine is at best 1/20th of the actual carbon costs- which include refining fuels, transport, and incredible amounts of refrigeration; most of which still originates in - coal. And that's just the fuel costs. Rocket manufacture/ materials/ transport- more again.
The costs in accelerated global climate change - would be significant. And it's those of us who have to stay behind who would pay.
Multiple calculations exist; easy to find. It turns out the actual CO2 put out by the rocket engine is at best 1/20th of the actual carbon costs- which include refining fuels, transport, and incredible amounts of refrigeration; most of which still originates in - coal. And that's just the fuel costs. Rocket manufacture/ materials/ transport- more again.
The costs in accelerated global climate change - would be significant. And it's those of us who have to stay behind who would pay.
4
I'm all for thinking big and eventually exploring or even colonizing Mars. But for one thing, we have far more pressing issues here on earth to think about. Why doesn't Elon Musk use his billions to end homelessness or find a cure for HIV?
But to my second point, even that may be asking too much. Remember Hyperloop and how it was supposed to be better than high-speed rail? There seems to be little actual progress on that unproven technology, but instead of waiting to see if that can pan out, Musk is now on to his second big dream.
Maybe it's about time we stop mindlessly worshipping these "disruptive" Silicon Valley billionaires like Elon Musk and Peter Thiel and every crazy but ultimately pointless idea they have, and instead find real solutions to real problems.
But to my second point, even that may be asking too much. Remember Hyperloop and how it was supposed to be better than high-speed rail? There seems to be little actual progress on that unproven technology, but instead of waiting to see if that can pan out, Musk is now on to his second big dream.
Maybe it's about time we stop mindlessly worshipping these "disruptive" Silicon Valley billionaires like Elon Musk and Peter Thiel and every crazy but ultimately pointless idea they have, and instead find real solutions to real problems.
1
Considering what humans have and are doing to earth, do we really want our species to be given the opportunity to despoil yet another world?
13
Please explain--beyond killing native and hypothetical microbes on Mars--how we'd despoil a planet with no ecosystem. Yours in Luddite and nihilistic thinking, pure and simple.
We need to evolve as a species. Colonization is one way to save our precious Earth from human-caused threats such as rapid climate change.
We need to evolve as a species. Colonization is one way to save our precious Earth from human-caused threats such as rapid climate change.
5
The good/bad news is that if as a species we go to Mars, the planet doesn't have any complex life to despoil. If there is any life at all. If anything, we will spruce up the place. At least as far as earth based life is concerned.
3
Elon Musk is a smart guy, but he should devote his crucial talents and resources to helping us shift out of a fossil fuel economy. His space program is contributing to climate change. Moreover, there is no salvation and no future for humanity in space. We are profoundly creatures of the earth, evolved in its gravity, its diurnal rhythms, its blue skies and green vegetation, its microflora. Unless all this could be reconstructed somewhere else, we would sicken and die. And we'd be glad to die, because life off Earth would be profoundly unhappy. We are one with this planet, no more capable of surviving off world than a whale on a beach.
26
*Coughs* Tesla and SolarCity.... *Cough* He founded those as well. Who knew?
4
Even if you forget about all the earthly qualities you listed, Mars has no breathable atmosphere and no known realistic source of water. So how are humans supposed to survive long-term on Mars at all (quite apart from psychologically enjoying themselves)?
Workable solutions to those fundamental survival needs must be discovered - until then, any talk of moving human colonies there is premature and foolish.
Workable solutions to those fundamental survival needs must be discovered - until then, any talk of moving human colonies there is premature and foolish.
He devotes quite a bit of his energy to that. Ever heard of Tesla? Solar City?
3
1. So long as it doesn't involve my tax dollars, have a good time, Mr. Musk. However, I have a sinking feeling that this is going to tap my pocketbook.
2. So we can destroy another planet?
3. Someone's been reading The Starship and the Canoe.
2. So we can destroy another planet?
3. Someone's been reading The Starship and the Canoe.
When we stop dreaming, we start to die. Mr. Musk is dreaming big - so should the rest of us. Space is the biggest but not the only frontier that we have. If space exploration is not your thing, perhaps you can look into how to stabilize our population or solve the food crisis by farming the oceans.
Dream on!
Dream on!
2
I've never understood the hostility Elon Musk gets. He's one of maybe a handful of billionaires who puts his efforts and his own money toward fixing the world's major problems and helping out the human race -- and in about 5 years, when electric cars start penetrating into the market in a big way, it will 100% unequivocally be because of the work that Tesla did, from proving the technical concept, to piloting the business model, to laying the infrastructure with charging stations.
The dude is a modern Walt Disney. Be skeptical, but don't be one of those nay-saying goofs who winds up in a spinning newspaper montage. Get your heads outta your navels and on the right side of history, ya grouches!
The dude is a modern Walt Disney. Be skeptical, but don't be one of those nay-saying goofs who winds up in a spinning newspaper montage. Get your heads outta your navels and on the right side of history, ya grouches!
4
Many of the negative commenters here would probably have had similar negative comments about Columbus' proposal to sail west from Spain to India.
Hail to all those, like Musk, who dream big.
Hail to all those, like Musk, who dream big.
5
And this would help climate change how?....oh, I'm sorry, I forgot I'm not supposed to criticize the rich. Silly me.
It's worth noting that colonizing other planets is key to Progress's plan for dealing with climate change, along with all the other terrifying consequences of our lifeway that is dependent on infinite growth, including running out of raw materials.
As long as we're on this destructive path, what else could the plan be? For many centuries now, a frontier has been required in order to keep us going, both materially and psychologically. Steady state types we are not.
At least not yet. It's coming. The only question is about its being soon enough. Are we past that point?
As long as we're on this destructive path, what else could the plan be? For many centuries now, a frontier has been required in order to keep us going, both materially and psychologically. Steady state types we are not.
At least not yet. It's coming. The only question is about its being soon enough. Are we past that point?
They all laughed when Christopher Columbus said he thought the world was round...but who's got the last laugh now.
Elon, first figure out how we can drive one of your ugly cars from New York to Philly and back without needing to nap for a couple of hours at a charging station in Jersey then we'll talk Mars.
1
There 2 problems that no one has solved yet. First the radiation on the way there. Second, nobody has devised a way to actually land humans on Mars. It requires too much fuel for the amount of weight necessary to get, stay, and return. It's not like in the movie The Martian.
Rich men with a bug in their ear pushed forward with the chaos of early railroads, and went bankrupt. Massive projects require decades of innovation and the support of governments. Americans might have the dream of one man arriving to fix everything, to invent everything, but even Edison and Ford built on the work of others. It's going to take a longer time and more cooperation than Mr. Musk and his rivals dream. Also, I hope he enjoys living on Social Security when his money runs out.
Ambitious. I'll agree with the obvious and say privatizing the colonization process into a fee structure is a really bad idea. I liken it to McMurdo Station only the workers are paying to get there, their staying for life, and the no-fly period is 20 months longer than Antarctica. Even sane people can go a bit nutty under these conditions. You need to be a bit more careful deciding who to send out there.
The other thing I'll point out is a 42 engine rocket is an exceedingly difficult thing to build. The Russians tried for a decade and failed. Good to Elon Musk and his team if they can pull it off. However, I find it very unlikely he'll accomplish the goal by 2024 with a $10 billion dollar price tag. The N1 rocket is a cautionary tale for this design.
The other thing I'll point out is a 42 engine rocket is an exceedingly difficult thing to build. The Russians tried for a decade and failed. Good to Elon Musk and his team if they can pull it off. However, I find it very unlikely he'll accomplish the goal by 2024 with a $10 billion dollar price tag. The N1 rocket is a cautionary tale for this design.
1
As much as I've always wanted to leave the cradle of Earth and move on to other worlds, let's get real for a moment.
I'm going to ignore the "spend the money here first" crowd, the same ones who said these things in the early 70s. Unless you are a shareholder in Amazon or one of Musk's companies, just be quiet. It is not your tax money this time.
Yet these private firms are making the same mistake that some in NASA made in the mid-to-late 60s. They are spinning epic tales (Mars mission by 1985! Millions in orbit by 2001!) without considering the scale of the technologies needed. Just because Musk and Bezos have or will soon have heavy-lift rockets does not mean they have the sort of space-based infrastructure that von Braun and Korolev envisioned when the US and Soviets raced to the moon. How will they track and supply colonists? be certain their astronauts do not die on the way or on the surface of another world?
That first space race resulted in a series of stunts, many of them worthy ventures for science and the human spirit. There were spin-off technologies we use today. But it will take hundreds of billions, not Musk's sum or that requested by the Senate, to get us living and working in space as a species. Color me dubious on this hyperbole. Been burned once waiting for my ride.
I'm going to ignore the "spend the money here first" crowd, the same ones who said these things in the early 70s. Unless you are a shareholder in Amazon or one of Musk's companies, just be quiet. It is not your tax money this time.
Yet these private firms are making the same mistake that some in NASA made in the mid-to-late 60s. They are spinning epic tales (Mars mission by 1985! Millions in orbit by 2001!) without considering the scale of the technologies needed. Just because Musk and Bezos have or will soon have heavy-lift rockets does not mean they have the sort of space-based infrastructure that von Braun and Korolev envisioned when the US and Soviets raced to the moon. How will they track and supply colonists? be certain their astronauts do not die on the way or on the surface of another world?
That first space race resulted in a series of stunts, many of them worthy ventures for science and the human spirit. There were spin-off technologies we use today. But it will take hundreds of billions, not Musk's sum or that requested by the Senate, to get us living and working in space as a species. Color me dubious on this hyperbole. Been burned once waiting for my ride.
Will somebody tell Elon Musk to sit down and shut up! A sign of intelligence is comportment with reality. Mr. Musk is so far removed from reality that simply don't understand why people listen to him. Society is going to have a hard enough time feeding itself as the the looming difficulties of oil depletion, climate change and economic collapse rampage toward the major collision that is happening right now. The space program and the Department of Defense should be scrapped entirely as the greatest squanderers of resources ever and those resources put to use to build out the DECENTRALIZED renewable energy systems necessary if we are to maintain even a shadow of modernity. Elon Musk is what happens when one is raised on too much Star Wars and Star Trek.
You sound like the farmers in Interstellar with your hatred for space travel. Space IS the final frontier and the human ambition to explore the unknown will eventually drive us out there. I fully support Elon Musk and his dream to colonize other planets, although Mars would still be a tough living environment. Space travel could still be beneficial on Earth because it will almost definitely provide an advancement in technology. I think Musk is an inspiration where he is actually using his fortune to advance humanity as a whole instead of being greedy.
Does anyone remember how expensive the first PCs were? The first laptops? The first flatscreen TVs? New technology is invariably more expensive in the beginning. Then market forces and tech advances push down the prices.
Is Elon Musk a visionary entrepreneur or a charlatan? Few people gave SpaceX a chance when Elon Musk announced its founding. And, yet, here it is, competing with the more established rocket companies. And what about his reusable booster (along with Blue origin's)?
As to why go to Mars and other worlds? There isn't room in one of these comment boxes to do it justice, so I will give you three reasons. First, simply because it's there, and we want to learn about it. This urge to explore and learn is built into our genes. Second, because there are many ways humanity can be wiped out on Earth, or at least, civilization destroyed, ranging from nuclear and biological wars, to pandemics, to even an asteroid strike. Having self-sustaining colonies on other worlds may hedge our bets for our species survival. Finally, we go to Mars, paraphrasing JFK, because people not because it's easy, but because it's hard.
Is Elon Musk a visionary entrepreneur or a charlatan? Few people gave SpaceX a chance when Elon Musk announced its founding. And, yet, here it is, competing with the more established rocket companies. And what about his reusable booster (along with Blue origin's)?
As to why go to Mars and other worlds? There isn't room in one of these comment boxes to do it justice, so I will give you three reasons. First, simply because it's there, and we want to learn about it. This urge to explore and learn is built into our genes. Second, because there are many ways humanity can be wiped out on Earth, or at least, civilization destroyed, ranging from nuclear and biological wars, to pandemics, to even an asteroid strike. Having self-sustaining colonies on other worlds may hedge our bets for our species survival. Finally, we go to Mars, paraphrasing JFK, because people not because it's easy, but because it's hard.
1
He might be accepted on Mars, but not in my Insurance Group.
Boys and their toys, sigh. It would be almost cute except that on the same front page there is a NYT article about "No Proper Plumbing: A Reality in 500,000 U.S. Homes". Yes, we all like to dream but when we wake up we realize that humanity and earth needs a lot more attention and innovation if it is to be viable. Look around, do you really think we should be exporting this to other worlds?
25
They said the same things about Christopher Columbus.
From the article: Scott Pace, a former NASA official ... said "Mr. Musk’s vision was plausible technically ... but didn’t really address why governments, corporations or other organizations would fund the effort.”
An asteroid strike, nuclear war, plague, environmental catastrophe or some other one-in-a-million event could visit the earth and end human civilization. Forever. Once it is within our ability to foresee such contingencies and to take steps to avoid/minimize them, then it is our obligation to do so. That's how it works. Ignoring a predictable threat to humanity would be unnatural -- that is, contrary to the principal of survival that marks every successful species.
Selling private tickets is a good start, but the Musk mission to Mars should also be subsidized by modestly taxing earthly things that make a Mars colony more urgent. That might include a modest carbon tax, taxes on military arms exports, and a per-capita population tax in G20 nations. Space Law should also be developed based on UN principles, and UN officials should accompany the mission to ensure that humanity's legacy survives.
Moving humanity to another planet should not be done on a lark, merely for profit, nor on a shoestring budget.
An asteroid strike, nuclear war, plague, environmental catastrophe or some other one-in-a-million event could visit the earth and end human civilization. Forever. Once it is within our ability to foresee such contingencies and to take steps to avoid/minimize them, then it is our obligation to do so. That's how it works. Ignoring a predictable threat to humanity would be unnatural -- that is, contrary to the principal of survival that marks every successful species.
Selling private tickets is a good start, but the Musk mission to Mars should also be subsidized by modestly taxing earthly things that make a Mars colony more urgent. That might include a modest carbon tax, taxes on military arms exports, and a per-capita population tax in G20 nations. Space Law should also be developed based on UN principles, and UN officials should accompany the mission to ensure that humanity's legacy survives.
Moving humanity to another planet should not be done on a lark, merely for profit, nor on a shoestring budget.
1
Good for Elon Musk. Sounds like Tesla blowing smoke.
Tesla ended up killing an innocent civilian because of bad engineering, and I'm still waiting for their admitting failure and paying for it. Give me a break, you design a self-driving-car and it can't tell the difference between the sky and the side of a truck? Radar could do it. Tesla didn't.
Seems like Musk is setting his sights higher than that.
Where does the responsibility come into play?
When will these multi-millionaire clowns become accountable for their actions?
It is about time the multi-millionaire people pay the price for playing with the lives of the customers.
Tesla ended up killing an innocent civilian because of bad engineering, and I'm still waiting for their admitting failure and paying for it. Give me a break, you design a self-driving-car and it can't tell the difference between the sky and the side of a truck? Radar could do it. Tesla didn't.
Seems like Musk is setting his sights higher than that.
Where does the responsibility come into play?
When will these multi-millionaire clowns become accountable for their actions?
It is about time the multi-millionaire people pay the price for playing with the lives of the customers.
The futurist vision for human space colonization in some ways is in conflict with the futurist vision promulgated by some leading computer scientists. If we are on the cusp of sending manned flights to Mars we also on the cusp of developing robots that will either match or greatly exceed the capabilities of human beings. Why send humans into space when we have robots to do the job? If the survival of humanity is the rationale, consider the vision of "singularity" and "transhumanist" thought which suggests that humans as a mere biological species defined by the laws of natural evolution will soon be an anachronism.
Why move to Mars, or colonize it? If there are any reasons to do that shouldn't those decisions be made by our descendants whoever or whatever they might be? Is there a pressing reason for someone to live on Mars right now? Does human intelligence have superior functionality to machine intelligence in outerspace? Why not explore Mars through advanced robotics?
Why move to Mars, or colonize it? If there are any reasons to do that shouldn't those decisions be made by our descendants whoever or whatever they might be? Is there a pressing reason for someone to live on Mars right now? Does human intelligence have superior functionality to machine intelligence in outerspace? Why not explore Mars through advanced robotics?
Private wealth does extreme things to people and their priorities. We must demands that wealth be put to uses that actually benefit the planet and all its inhabitants.
Forget about Musk's plans, a waste of time and money. How is he going to shield astronauts from Cosmic radiation? We know now that the Apollo crews who vetnured to the Moon had their hearts damaged by going there from Cposmic radiation. Human brain damage is very likely too, along with human chromosomal damage from the years trip to and from Mars. Unless Metallurgists come up with some super-lead like metal that weights a fraction of the thousands of pounds of lead needed to absorb even a fraction of those Cosmic rays, you can kiss Mars goodbye. Mr. Musk- save your money and that of your shareholders and use technology for the benefit of life here on Earth.
1
I love those marketing videos, they all look so great.
I am even willing to believe that Musk is planning to get this off and have people flown to Mars.
It would be nice though to see him on the first such flight in order to gain some trust.
But I still hope that the spacecraft will not use the same "autopilot" he has sold with the Tesla cars.
I am even willing to believe that Musk is planning to get this off and have people flown to Mars.
It would be nice though to see him on the first such flight in order to gain some trust.
But I still hope that the spacecraft will not use the same "autopilot" he has sold with the Tesla cars.
This video pretty much describes a one way trip. And I am glad he is concentrating on making sure his rockets don't fail on liftoff and assent let alone recovery. Without the proper forethought soon we will need junk collectors in space to collect all the worthless communication satellites and other debris that soon could create a dirty ring around our planet. Soon all our falling stars will be junk falling from orbit. Sort of like the tennis balls, plastic bottles and other debris that come back to us on our ocean beaches.
We did not take Elon Musk serious when he proposed Electric car, reusable rockets and hyperloop. Now we know, he is serious.
He need not succeed in all points he has told us now about Mars travel. He only has to show that some of the points are workable and create a working prototype.
In the article we see that NASA is also having a similar mission. Any advance Mr. Musk makes is going to make it easier for NASA.
Not to forget the knock on effects the development of related technologies will have.
I am very excited, even though I am not very optimistic that Elon Musk is going to go anywhere near his dream. Nobody is laughing at Mr. Musk this time, but that does not mean that his ideas about Mars travel are ridiculous.
He need not succeed in all points he has told us now about Mars travel. He only has to show that some of the points are workable and create a working prototype.
In the article we see that NASA is also having a similar mission. Any advance Mr. Musk makes is going to make it easier for NASA.
Not to forget the knock on effects the development of related technologies will have.
I am very excited, even though I am not very optimistic that Elon Musk is going to go anywhere near his dream. Nobody is laughing at Mr. Musk this time, but that does not mean that his ideas about Mars travel are ridiculous.
2
It's odd to me that many comments here seem to believe Mr. Musk is acting alone in his vision. To the contrary, he has built a profitable company employing thousands of scientists, engineers, and technicians, won a significant number of contracts from both the government and private sectors, and been the first to demonstrate long-sought goals like reuseable orbital rockets. None of that proves he will accomplish his goals, of course-- but dismissing him as a dupe, a charlatan, or a dreamer seems very premature.
2
I think Musk has a good reason to settle Mars. It's a reason a lot of sci-fi enthusiasts no doubt agree with. We need a second home.
What he doesn't really have is a sense of how hard it will be to get anyone to help fund this without some incentive. But at least he has a vision.
The bigger problems are: 1) how he minimized the difficulties in sending so many people on such a voyage; 2) how hard it will be to get everything to work right; and 3) how the colony would become a true, lasting colony. I think it is that last part that is a dealbreaker for me.
What he doesn't really have is a sense of how hard it will be to get anyone to help fund this without some incentive. But at least he has a vision.
The bigger problems are: 1) how he minimized the difficulties in sending so many people on such a voyage; 2) how hard it will be to get everything to work right; and 3) how the colony would become a true, lasting colony. I think it is that last part that is a dealbreaker for me.
"Scott Pace, a former NASA official who is the director of the Space Policy Institute at George Washington University, said Mr. Musk’s vision was plausible technically."
Mr.Musk is only scratching the surface for the transformation of how we will live not only on Mars, but on our own planet. For instance the idea of sending Earth's growing piles of trash to our Sun or to Venus, which is about 30 million miles closer than our Sun, is a real possibility. And the need for reusable rockets is an important aspect of such a project. In fact the tiny border community of Naco, Arizona (pop. 800), saw its Sanitary District Board of Directors vote this summer to explore the possibility of having Naco become the first community on the planet to send its trash to Venus. And we are assured that even nuclear waste would be consumed by the pizza-oven-like temperatures and corrosive climate on Venus. And those reusable rockets would be essential, as would the growing effort to power spacecraft with lasers. Venus here we come.
Forget Mars.
Please just focus on bringing electric cars to the masses.
Please just focus on bringing electric cars to the masses.
It may be more far-fetched to think that we will "solve" or even cope with global warming than to reach Mars and beyond to extend and, yes, "save" civilization. The highly developed portion of the world has been spewing pollutants for almost two centuries. I don't believe the less prosperous continents are going to pass on their turn to develop their nations and attempt to meet the needs of their swelling populations. An ambitious space program may preserve our planet's culture(s) and general scientific progress-NASA's projects resulted in many unanticipated discoveries.
1
Musk has shown - more than once - that it's a mistake to underestimate him or his dreams. Go, Elon!
Mars & Solar system tours to the tune of 10s of Billion's of dollars? Not sure about you, but we here in Portland have massive homeless camps all over town.. Not to mention the growing list of other challenges facing our world and its inhabitants. Maybe we could apply Musk's team's of best and brightest -- with their big money to solve some of the worlds glaring problems -- before backing joy rides in the solar system. And it is a joy ride, as real space research is done by space probes. Sending humans is basically a flag waving exercise, or bragging rights for the mega rich. No thanks. Sadly, Musk just dropped a couple notches in my book.
8
Musk's Tesla is proof that he is committed to improving conditions on Earth. The fully electric cars are eco-friendly and bust the stereotype of similar vehicles by being aesthetically pleasing and powerful.
1
See the other replies. Luddism is not the way forward. If this plan is sound technically--a big if--it's not a joyride. It's how we start a colony.
We can address climate-change abatement with technologies such as Tesla's, linked to renewables, and jump-start an industrial revolution that will employ many of Portland's homeless. Or should Mr. Musk just cut them all checks and give up on technology?
I'd argue that your thinking is stuck in 1970, when the public got bored with Apollo and wanted to spend the taxpayers' money here. Fair enough. But this is 2016 and it's Musk and Bezos and Branson spending the billions. So be quiet.
We can address climate-change abatement with technologies such as Tesla's, linked to renewables, and jump-start an industrial revolution that will employ many of Portland's homeless. Or should Mr. Musk just cut them all checks and give up on technology?
I'd argue that your thinking is stuck in 1970, when the public got bored with Apollo and wanted to spend the taxpayers' money here. Fair enough. But this is 2016 and it's Musk and Bezos and Branson spending the billions. So be quiet.
1
Peak Oiler, your cheerleading for Progress is sounding a bit desperate. Your charge of Luddism against us skeptics doesn't stick. The history of colonization is written. It's filled with horror.
And it says right here in this article that Musk knows he'll require public funds for this insanity. (As if his private wealth is somehow not also robbery.) Now, who should be quiet?
And it says right here in this article that Musk knows he'll require public funds for this insanity. (As if his private wealth is somehow not also robbery.) Now, who should be quiet?
Musk's long term vision of humanity expanding beyond Earth is the important point here regardless of his lack of technical specificity or financial credibility. Musk is just one of a number of visionary billionaires - Jeff Bezos, Paul Allen, Richard Branson, etc. who are committed to humanity's destiny as a space faring species and who are spending substantial resources to make it happen. Scoff if you will but, as with Howard Hughes and Juan Trippe with aviation in the 1930s, or the British and Dutch trading companies of the 17th Century, in some fashion, these visions will become our future reality and humanity will be the better for it.
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Funny how only the billionaires are visionary.
How ironic that within the span of one month, after this LA Times headline on September 1 'SpaceX updates: Elon Musk calls the sudden ball of fire 'not an explosion' we are treated to dreams of space travel to the 'big red planet'. Hopefully future space travelers will enjoy a little less bumpy ride than that of a fireball soon after lift off.
Wouldn't these elegant if perhaps impractical ideas and the massive expenditures be better spent by addressing our burgeoning human populations, which are three times larger at 7.4 billion people than in 1950, a scant 67 years. E. O. Wilson said that the rate of extinction impacting some species is running at 1000 times 'normal'. Global climate change is here with a vengeance, sure to get incrementally worse as CO2 emissions continue to climb.
We have urgent issues and problems to address right here on Planet Earth, how about if we address those first before sending deep pocketed people toward uninhabited planets. As for Elon’s visions and prognostications, there seems a faint scent of musk in the air.
Wouldn't these elegant if perhaps impractical ideas and the massive expenditures be better spent by addressing our burgeoning human populations, which are three times larger at 7.4 billion people than in 1950, a scant 67 years. E. O. Wilson said that the rate of extinction impacting some species is running at 1000 times 'normal'. Global climate change is here with a vengeance, sure to get incrementally worse as CO2 emissions continue to climb.
We have urgent issues and problems to address right here on Planet Earth, how about if we address those first before sending deep pocketed people toward uninhabited planets. As for Elon’s visions and prognostications, there seems a faint scent of musk in the air.
21
This time it's private money, not tax money. Not your circus, not your monkeys. I hope one of them does get our species out of the cradle, but I suspect you are right in one regard: investors will back out after the inevitable disaster. This IS rocket science.
No. Looking in the mirror doesn't make you prettier and doesn't fix the world's problems either. It's exactly that thinking - fixing the old buggy, rather than building a new car that causes all the Earth's problems in the first place. We feed 7.4 Billion people now. Without discovery 3.5 billion would be starving, We fly helicopter rescues because we didn't stick with Wilbur and Orville's bi-plane. We have solar panels because we have space stations - what do you think the solar technology was originally developed for? Outdoor hunting perhaps?
Finally, this is Elon's money, not yours, not shareholders not anybody's but his. You probalby have shirts in your closet you don't wear very often. The money you bought them with could also be given to help the homeless - multiplied by $5/shirt, x 300 million Americans there is $1.5 Billion dollars right there for the homeless! And why pay $50 for a shirt when Walmart sells $5 shirts. That's $45 from you, or $13.5 Billion for homeless if shirt purchases can be controlled by 'others'. But I'm sure you would say, 'it's my money - I earned it, so I can do what I want to with it.' Funny thing is, Elon earned his too. And his spend will benefit humanity for millions and millions of years - literally. Your shirt won't be around in the year 322,751 AD, but if we make it off this planet humanity will be.
Finally, this is Elon's money, not yours, not shareholders not anybody's but his. You probalby have shirts in your closet you don't wear very often. The money you bought them with could also be given to help the homeless - multiplied by $5/shirt, x 300 million Americans there is $1.5 Billion dollars right there for the homeless! And why pay $50 for a shirt when Walmart sells $5 shirts. That's $45 from you, or $13.5 Billion for homeless if shirt purchases can be controlled by 'others'. But I'm sure you would say, 'it's my money - I earned it, so I can do what I want to with it.' Funny thing is, Elon earned his too. And his spend will benefit humanity for millions and millions of years - literally. Your shirt won't be around in the year 322,751 AD, but if we make it off this planet humanity will be.
2
Amen. I won't live to see us become a multi-planet civilization, Drew, but that's the argument we should use with the nay-sayers. I have issues with some of Musk's timing and the practicalities of not-yet-developed Tech, but he's dreaming. It's a good dream.
I would not emigrate to Mars for $100, but I want to see our species do this, as a way of leaving the cradle. We'll save our world in the process, by pushing industry and that curious-monkey spirit out into the Solar System.
I would not emigrate to Mars for $100, but I want to see our species do this, as a way of leaving the cradle. We'll save our world in the process, by pushing industry and that curious-monkey spirit out into the Solar System.
1
So, he's like a carnival barker or street newspaper vendor: "Mars tickets! Get yer Mars tickets here! Only $10 million dollars and you're probably gonna die! Mars tickets! Get yer..."
He needs a better sales pitch.
He needs a better sales pitch.
5
Probably gonna die? There's no probably about it. Any mission to Mars now or in the foreseeable future is a death sentence, no matter what corporate welfare queen snake oil salesmen like Musk might claim.
1
Mr. Musk wants to send other, less affluent, people to Mars, very likely to die, so that he can stay here and watch his children grow up. I think that tells me all I want to know about him.
6
Save earth! It is the only home we have.
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Space science is helping us do just that. We can be an interplanetary species and protect our fragile home.
But knee-jerk Luddism is hardly the proper response. A cold look at how tough and expensive a Mars colony would be would be preferable.
But knee-jerk Luddism is hardly the proper response. A cold look at how tough and expensive a Mars colony would be would be preferable.
1
Why all the negative comments? Musk is a visionary whose companies have achieved remarkable feats of engineering. He seems genuinely committed to helping sustain the life-support systems of planet earth through electric cars and solar energy. If human intelligence has intrinsic value, should we not, as a species, contemplate how to avoid keeping the proverbial eggs in a single basket? And if the wealthy might take a $500,000 trip to Mars, is that totally far fetched given that software-game entrepreneur Richard Garriott was willing to plunk down $30 million—the bulk of his fortune at the time—on a trip to a space station? Here's to the dreamers and the practical people that turn dreams into reality. In Musk's case, they are one and the same.
126
Keep drinking the kool-aid
not a visionary but a con man , maybe? If he ignores the fact that all of that Cosmic radiation from a years worth of space travel will likely kill or disable those passengers. He forgot to mention in his news conference the Cosmic radiation damage to the heart, brain and chromosomes. Tell that to the Apollo astronauts. All a waste of time, more like a PR stunt to promote his company
The Wright brothers, Henry Ford, Eily Whitney and most visionaries were not wealthy with lots of money...they had lots of brains instead, Send all these wealthy billionaires (2500) on the one way voyage.. It would make the earth more livable !
Elon Musk like Steve Jobs is another messiah of the gullible but technically inclined. His Mars blabbing has as much "truthiness" as Trump's claims to having any type of temperament.
13
His stated goal from the very beginning of starting spacex was to get to Mars. The announcement in Guadalajara was planned almost a year ago. I can understand if you are incredulous about whether his plan will succeed but his convictions are and have been clear this whole time, the man wants to get to mars. He has risked his personal fortune multiple times and has made many incremental achievements towards this goal. Also, spacex makes money by selling the cheapest flights to space in the world to private enterprises around the globe. Furthermore it is a private company so its not as if any joe schmo can invest. Why all the animosity?
1
So, I have watched the video and read the article. And I have two very simple question to ask. OK, so you launch this HUGE ship and get it there with its GIGANTIC window and it is what 3 - 4 stories tall with an array of up to seven engines sticking out the backside, ummm,,, just how do you propose to get out? A ladder? A bungee cord? Crawl out one of the engines? My second question is this: did ANYONE who gives this rich guy tech advice take the time to tell him what we learned when we went to the moon almost 50 years ago? Anyone? Anyone at all?
4
I believe the plan is to have an identical launch pad on mars (and fuel generation process). As you can see in the video that the passengers boarded the ship through the bridge on the launch pad and I can only assume there is an elevator within. As for Musk receiving guidance or tech advice, you should take note that he is not your typical CEO who is merely business savvy. He is directly involved with a lot of the engineering of the rockets themselves. Who knows what you're referring to about what he needs "tech advice" on.
These comments are strange and more cynical than usual. Some of you seem to have a personal grudge against the man. Is it because of his politics?
I'm skeptical of his claims and lofty goals, but I'm really rooting for him and like-minded people. These sorts of endeavors propel our species, and many of its application find uses for other activities and industries.
I'm skeptical of his claims and lofty goals, but I'm really rooting for him and like-minded people. These sorts of endeavors propel our species, and many of its application find uses for other activities and industries.
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it's impossible to provide enough shieldng from radiation. The craft would be too heavy to put in orbit never mind flying to, landing and taking off from Mars. You need tons of lead to do the job, even partially. The gullible public falls for his PR stunt, hook, line and sinker.
Perhaps humanity already is a "multi-planetary species", but Mr. Musk was not invited. I suggest Mr. Musk work-on boosting IQ point total, and think his way to Mars, and other worldly places. The plan presented in this article sounds more like a very expensive, uneconomical, amusement park ride or Hollywood movie that has already been made. Usually those movies don't end very well. It also sounds like Mr Musk is being taken for a ride, by people who just want the money he made from Pay Pal. They're your friends, until you run out of green (money).
1
I agree with the position that C. S Lewis put forth in his essay "Religion and Rocketry": Travel to any other planet will never happen.
1
In a Multiverse, trying to explore a different planet is only logical. This is the only way to ensure that the information content of life (as in forms of life on Earth) is passed beyond. First to a different planet, then galaxies and thereafter beyond space and time.
Seriousness apart, I would volunteer to take a one way trip to Mars if they allow the following: Chocolates, Bruce Springsteen Albums on an iphone 37 (let's say I leave for the journey in 30 years from now) and some Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey. I will get started on reading about agriculture to grow food on my own.
Finally, I would need a high speed internet connection and Bitcoins so that I import the above 3 items from Earth and read NYT when I'm at home (I meant Mars).
Seriousness apart, I would volunteer to take a one way trip to Mars if they allow the following: Chocolates, Bruce Springsteen Albums on an iphone 37 (let's say I leave for the journey in 30 years from now) and some Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey. I will get started on reading about agriculture to grow food on my own.
Finally, I would need a high speed internet connection and Bitcoins so that I import the above 3 items from Earth and read NYT when I'm at home (I meant Mars).
15
I recommend sending ahead and pre-positioning on Mars food, water, modular dwellings, and three times the supplies and equipment you imagine that you will need. Also, get Caterpillar to throw together some nuclear-powered bulldozers and other heavy equipment. Finally, find a nice, solid mountain on Mars and honeycomb it with tunnels, chambers, and solariums -- that will be easier than mixing concrete on Mars. Establishing a permanent base won't be cheap -- the drinking water alone will probably cost $500,000 a pint -- but you need a big initial spark.
If your definition of colonizing Mars is to sit inside of a solar-powered Airstream camper, recycling waste to get water, don't bother: just stay on Earth.
If your definition of colonizing Mars is to sit inside of a solar-powered Airstream camper, recycling waste to get water, don't bother: just stay on Earth.
30
We're living in the age of stupidity. When people have the attention spans of gnats, you can pretty much feed them any narrative and they'll buy it and move on to the next shines object. It's rope-a-dope on a mass scale. Don't hold your breath on this nonsense because it's never going to happen.
23
He should have stopped with the Pay Pal cash-out. He doesn't have enough money to build the Planet Mars.
and they also said reusable boosters would never happen...
50
I just don't see why anyone would want to leave such a beautiful, fantastic, and awesome planet such as Earth. There's a very good reason why nothing lives there on Mars ....food, water, temperature, breathable air, etc. etc. etc...those basic essentials come to mind.
Why not just spend the money and fix things on this planet???
Why not just spend the money and fix things on this planet???
3
Another publicity stunt by Mr. Musk. The problem lies not only with Mr. Musk but with newspapers which pass these publicity stunts along without a simple critique, which will take very little time and effort.
24
Elon Musk is planning a trip to Mars for rich people. Now, what else is new in the universe! So we will have the super-rich enjoying the space plane in a few years, then perhaps orbiting in a new space station, and finally, thanks to Musk, they will be off to Mars. Imagine a Mars colony of the rich, filled with people of similar intellectual and financial vigor, the cutting edge of humanity, almost a subspecies, in their shiny domes, far away from the mother planet ravaged by global warming. By next century they will be diving in the oceans of Europa and rowing in the methane lakes of Titan. The rest of shrinking humanity, facing superstorms, flooding, scorching temperatures and a generally uninhabitable planet, will gather at the Temples of Musk, scattered throughout the world, and offer prayers for deliverance.
8
The article calls Mars "the big red planet." Mars is not big. It's considerably smaller than Earth.
17
Thank you. It's good to know someone else is paying attention!
However, none of it is water, so the surface area is larger than that of the Earth.
Mr. Musk seems to forget there's no oxygen to breathe, it's minus 100 degrees on a good day and there's nothing to eat. Other than that it's a brilliant idea!
57
The bigger snafu is that Mars has no magnetic field, unless someone has a plan to nudge a large enough asteroid into Mars' orbit... then wait 70 to 100 million years for this new big moon to liquefy and spin Mars' core fast enough to generate a magnetic field strong enough to allow anyone who isn't a plant to spend time on a terraformed surface sans spacesuit. But.. Mars may be too small for even this to happen, like as not the gifted moon would only sow catastrophic tectonic havoc.
Probably the most appreciated bits of machinery to take along would be a fleet of tunnel boring machines.
Probably the most appreciated bits of machinery to take along would be a fleet of tunnel boring machines.
9
It sounds like he is building a video game simulator of some sort.... the feeling of riding on a rocket ship... like an airplane... or car. I suppose Bugs Bunny will be offering passengers carrots during the flight? I don't think Jane Fonda sold him the Barbarella movie set.
...and, most importantly, there is no magnetosphere or atmosphere on Mars to deflect/absorb solar or cosmic radiation, respectively. Without shielding, any visitor would be exposed to an awful lot of radiation on the trip and the stay. I am a radiation worker and I would not go if I was paid to.
5
He could raise money for the project by contracting with Nike or Adidas to make a sneaker that looks like the spaceship. Because it already sort of looks like a round fat sneaker anyway, y'know, in the same way that an Airbus A380 jet looks like a beluga whale?
I would laugh my butt off if they spent 100 billion dollars on this boondoggle and an asteroid hit Mars!
5
Well, the Earth is a considerably larger target, so the odds are we'll get hit first.
But go ahead, laugh your butt off. You won't need it.
But go ahead, laugh your butt off. You won't need it.
1
How can we make sure he is on the first flight so we do not have to deal with him for at least 2 years?
5
I hope Musk can find the funding to send people to Mars and that he can build the infrastructure to keep them alive there. I have my doubts.
If we were willing to use nuclear pulse propulsion, this would be much easier. In fact, we would have already settled Mars and Europa by now if we had picked Project Orion over the Apollo program.
If we were willing to use nuclear pulse propulsion, this would be much easier. In fact, we would have already settled Mars and Europa by now if we had picked Project Orion over the Apollo program.
8
Nuclear pulse propulsion is only feasible if those rockets are launched from the moon, and since we have yet to have anything remotely like a long-term presence on the Moon, sort of a prerequisite to being able to build rockets there, I would say that your estimation that we could've already settled Mars and Europa by 2016 to be just slightly over-optimistic.
1
How is he planning to pass thru the Van Ryan radiation belts, without killing everyone aboard and destroying the spacecraft?
5
Recall that two dozen Apollo astronauts passed through - both ways - en route to the moon. It's quite doable.
3
"How is he planning to pass thru the Van Ryan radiation belts...?"
That's the Van Allen belts, named for space scientist James Van Allen, who discovered them in 1958.
The Van Ryan belts, which power the fans in Paul Ryan's Van, move nearly as much hot air as the Speaker himself.
That's the Van Allen belts, named for space scientist James Van Allen, who discovered them in 1958.
The Van Ryan belts, which power the fans in Paul Ryan's Van, move nearly as much hot air as the Speaker himself.
Cover themselves in newly bottled "musk oil"?
If it doesn't explode....
Elon Musk is the D.D. Harriman of our generation.... bless him.
3
Anyone who believes a word out of this guy's mouth just has not been paying any attention at all.
2
On the contrary - Musk is delivering quite nicely on his promises. They don't always happen in the timeframe he envisions and there have been some considerable bumps along the road but, yes, he's quite believable.
25
I'm 42. If 40 years from now there were a self-sufficient city on Mars, I might be ready for a 1-way ticket.
8