Pretty odd that the non-profit would be included in the gofundme and try to somehow link themselves to these two men. These two gentlemen should be given a heroes' welcome for preventing more carnage, even if just by stumbling on a backpack full of explosives. The point that these citizens that stepped up and did the right thing by notifying the police and keeping people safe, knowingly or not, is worthy of hero status. The non-profit deserves none of the money.
48
Seriously, people complain and gripe about everything
these days! Donate to the fund or don't. The two men
did something brave and selfless, and end up in the
middle of a petty squabble. Ridiculous!
these days! Donate to the fund or don't. The two men
did something brave and selfless, and end up in the
middle of a petty squabble. Ridiculous!
103
Maybe this is where the CITY should have stepped in. After all, if the bombs had gone off, the city might have been liable and helping two people who averted that could have been seen as civic responsibility.
We are so quick to blame people for being good samaritans, though the idea of being one is not to have your hand out "for a reward", but to accept one if offered.
The internet has turned us into something else, I'm afraid. SAD!
We are so quick to blame people for being good samaritans, though the idea of being one is not to have your hand out "for a reward", but to accept one if offered.
The internet has turned us into something else, I'm afraid. SAD!
22
"crash-landing an airplane when you are, in fact, an airline pilot can lead to speaking engagements, global fame and a movie about you starring Tom Hanks"
So true!
So true!
34
What are they owed? Gratitude and respect. If we live in a civilized society, then all they did was act like responsible citizens. I'd like to think that any one of us would have done the same.
That said, if others, hearing of their story, choose to support or reward them financially, that's great. That too is the act of someone living in a civilized society.
That said, if others, hearing of their story, choose to support or reward them financially, that's great. That too is the act of someone living in a civilized society.
58
This is an interesting story. Summary:
1) The short history of two men who risked their lives to help out their fellow citizens.
2) The story of how others wanted to help them and are trying to do so.
3) A summary of the comments thread at the GoFundMe site set up to try to help.
So, why does #3 exist? Why does that constitute "news" and/or "reporting"? What possible benefit could I get from reporting about a comments section?
Seriously, I would kind of like some indication from the NYTimes as to why the inclusion of that part of the story was necessary. Without it, it seems that you have an interesting story about the two men who helped their town and about others who want to help them. That wasn't good enough? At least the first two parts give me more information about the people involved in a newsworthy event. The only thing I get from the third is that "some people are jerks". Pretty much everyone knows that. It is abundantly clear in pretty much every article I read these days - a by-product of "balance" and/or "investigate all sides", I guess.
Also, a suggestion: If you are going to report about a comments section, why not report on the one that you run?! I'm sure that, if you ran the first two parts of the story, you could add the third within a couple of hours. And, the new third part would at least be interesting to me/us because it would be about your own readers! Everyone wants to hear about themselves.
1) The short history of two men who risked their lives to help out their fellow citizens.
2) The story of how others wanted to help them and are trying to do so.
3) A summary of the comments thread at the GoFundMe site set up to try to help.
So, why does #3 exist? Why does that constitute "news" and/or "reporting"? What possible benefit could I get from reporting about a comments section?
Seriously, I would kind of like some indication from the NYTimes as to why the inclusion of that part of the story was necessary. Without it, it seems that you have an interesting story about the two men who helped their town and about others who want to help them. That wasn't good enough? At least the first two parts give me more information about the people involved in a newsworthy event. The only thing I get from the third is that "some people are jerks". Pretty much everyone knows that. It is abundantly clear in pretty much every article I read these days - a by-product of "balance" and/or "investigate all sides", I guess.
Also, a suggestion: If you are going to report about a comments section, why not report on the one that you run?! I'm sure that, if you ran the first two parts of the story, you could add the third within a couple of hours. And, the new third part would at least be interesting to me/us because it would be about your own readers! Everyone wants to hear about themselves.
46
Oh, for God's sake. Please, have some generosity of spirit.
85
Can't we be happy for these two fellows?? It is called Serendipity!!!! My thoughts are: they should be given jobs, have insurance, and a decent place to live. Isn't this called the American Dream??
92
I'm relieved to read many letters supporting these two men who carried a dangerous package to a place where it would not harm others. If they receive any reward that's fantastic especially if they need it. I also do not understand why people bother to say and write negative thoughts regarding these two receiving a reward....the entire process is on a volunteer basis. People participate if they chose. If you chose not to participate why make so much noise?
I think some people like noise making.....like grumbling. Some people are in permanent bad moods. Everything is wrong, everyone is bad, they can't find anything right.
It's important to walk away from this type of hateful talk, it's discouraging in the big doses we experience now. Push back with supportive behavior, like this story. Brave behavior like these men. Normal caring humans, we are all heros living our life.
I think some people like noise making.....like grumbling. Some people are in permanent bad moods. Everything is wrong, everyone is bad, they can't find anything right.
It's important to walk away from this type of hateful talk, it's discouraging in the big doses we experience now. Push back with supportive behavior, like this story. Brave behavior like these men. Normal caring humans, we are all heros living our life.
105
Nearly all the donations have from what appears to be average citizens. How about some of the big name celebrities stepping up to the plate. Mr. Trump, these guys helped your city. Sarah Jessica Parker, Mr. Di Niro, Woody, Alec, Martha, can't you famous New Yorkers spare a few bucks?
74
Honour and respect, yes. And give them the donations too. God bless them! :-)
91
Further evidence that beer drinking saves lives.
99
These two men are worth rewarding. They took the risk of moving the backpack to a safe place and then reported their find to the authorities. They could have run away and done nothing. It's a relief to read about two people who considered the safety of others as more important than their fear of what could happen to them.
They are worth helping. They probably never even considered a reward. The money should go to them.
Poorly written article.
They are worth helping. They probably never even considered a reward. The money should go to them.
Poorly written article.
148
The next person to find a possible bomb may just walk away, figuring it's not worth the hassle. Is that what critics want? People should be encouraged to do the right thing, not criticized.
146
If the bomb was found by a recently out of work Hedge Fund Manager from Greenwich and he found the device in the trashcan of his country club, while he was discarding a an oyster shell, and he walked the bomb to the 18th hole, would anyone hear the sound?
24
There would be plenty of money in our society if we didn't spend empire-level sums on the military (more than the combined total of the next 9 countries in the world!), which cannot account for trillions (I'm not making this up, an August report noted that amount). Our government subsidizes businesses that move our jobs overseas (and don't pay their fair share of taxes here), and doesn't realize the resulting unemployment will cost us, as a society, money. We allow greedy corporate executives to stiff the country, with no punitive action (Wells Fargo, Mylan, etc.), when those monies would help our economy by putting cash into consumers' hands. instead, we see those people buying fabulous estates, private jets, and reinvesting NONE of those dollars. When we declare "emergencies", we see a class of responders who are poorly trained, even though well paid.
There can be no criticism of crowd-funding, as there is no other means for the public to repay those we're indebted to, as our "elected representatives" have made sure they "wet their beaks" before there's even a fair redistribution of public funds.
There can be no criticism of crowd-funding, as there is no other means for the public to repay those we're indebted to, as our "elected representatives" have made sure they "wet their beaks" before there's even a fair redistribution of public funds.
26
Oh, my. The human condition is both wonderful and awful. I quit morning visits to the neighborhood diner because the conversation had been hijacked by those who always had a better way to do things, who had no information but many opinions, who know just how the town should run, but never attend a council meeting. Congratulations to White and Parker for simply going about the business of being good citizens.
69
If they were veterans they'd be at the White house receiving the Freedom Medal and Trump and Gulliani would be singing their praises from on high.
40
So, the choices are to donate to the two men who acted bravely and a third party who did nothing to earn it, or give nothing at all because I don't want to donate to that third party? That's the backlash, and it's legit. There should be another gofundme option that gives to the two men and no one else.
20
I hope he gets that job !
49
So the attitude seems to be not to help the poor and homeless even if they are heroes. I'm betting all of those people think of themselves as good Christians. Last time I checked Jesus fed the hungry and gave medical care to the poor for free.
48
NYT,
There should be a lot more coverage of these two courageous men. Please follow up on this story. We want to hear what happens to them.
There should be a lot more coverage of these two courageous men. Please follow up on this story. We want to hear what happens to them.
54
Thank you, Mr. White and Mr. Parker. This world needs more good people like you.
18
Wow this Elizabeth NJ place is very rancorous. First we read about the fried chicken place at war with the police and the entire town, then these heroes become the center of contraversy? I guess everybody hates everybody there. Will somebody please give Lee Parker a job and help get Ivan White health care, adequate housing for the both of them? And quit fighting Elizabeth!
17
Let's see if I have this right. These two gentlemen - one homeless and one missing a foot because of diabetes - found what they apparently recognized as a bomb, PICKED IT UP AND CARRIED IT TO A PLACE WHERE NO ONE WOULD BE HURT! And now some TRULY brave citizens whine because these guys stand to make a buck off their willingness to place the safety of hundreds of people before their own.
Shame on you. Every single one of you.
Shame on you. Every single one of you.
31
not a fan of crowdfunding, social media, cable news, food fussing, the nfl, the nba, and, sadly, mlb, to name a few...but participation in any of these is voluntary, in other words, not compulsory...maybe skip the "deplorable/irredeemable" basket judgement, send money if so inclined or just open a cold one or take a walk, or both...or all three.
1
'Honor and respect' is all they should expect - and they'll be lucky to get it long after any money is spent
Wow! Thanks guys. Awareness and courage. Great examples of what I like to see and hear about our sense of responsibility for each other.
24
What do we owe those who do good? In another time, the answer might have been simply honor and respect.
---------------------------
The answer is still simply honor and respect, but the key word is owe. If people wish to give money to these two or really anybody else they choose then that is their choice. I don't understand the kerfuffle.
---------------------------
The answer is still simply honor and respect, but the key word is owe. If people wish to give money to these two or really anybody else they choose then that is their choice. I don't understand the kerfuffle.
9
An empathetic article might have follow-up by letting us know whether Mr. Parker had a successful job interview, and how the two gentlemen are faring today in the wake of their heroic efforts and the crowdfunding developments.
Instead, we hear a lot about a bunch of strangers who got their knickers in a knot over crowdfunding. Because on the Internet, it's all about us, isn't it?
Instead, we hear a lot about a bunch of strangers who got their knickers in a knot over crowdfunding. Because on the Internet, it's all about us, isn't it?
20
Good for the people who started this gofundme page! These two gentlemen didn't risk their lives for money; they did it because they are good, caring citizens. Neither is well-off, and if a little cash helps them out, so much the better.
And if some not-for-profit also benefits, also good. So some folks don't like the not-for-profit? Not their business. There must be those who think it does good work and those who benefit.
Don't complain; get a life!
And if some not-for-profit also benefits, also good. So some folks don't like the not-for-profit? Not their business. There must be those who think it does good work and those who benefit.
Don't complain; get a life!
31
...some of the mistrust to personal ill will ... toward one of the men who had started the campaign, who some felt was riding the current narrative ... for his own political purposes.
1) If so, and it irks you, don't vote for him. However, don't denigrate the campaign to help the two men who could have just minded their own business like numerous people probably did, and left that suspicious backpack sitting at the train station waiting to blow up and kill or injure dozens. Do you care at this point if they were planning to steal the backpack. If so, why? Value of lost backpack and contents vs. value of dozens of lives. When push came to shove, they did the right thing.
2) Anyone who dislikes the campaign because of the person who started it could have beat the guy to it and started a similar campaign him-/herself.
3) If you don't like GoFundMe and similar schemes, then seek oiut charities and find those you want to support. Look up information about each charity -- everything has to be reported to the gov't and is on the internet. If it's not there, then be wary. It could be people just trying to enrich themselves, just like people used to do standing on the street claiming to represent a good cause.
4) Support more government funding to help people, yes, using your taxes. Especially, say, if you've got diabetes but haven't lost a foot and a job yet to the disease, knowing that could eventually be a step you will have to take to save your life. Do more; carp less.
1) If so, and it irks you, don't vote for him. However, don't denigrate the campaign to help the two men who could have just minded their own business like numerous people probably did, and left that suspicious backpack sitting at the train station waiting to blow up and kill or injure dozens. Do you care at this point if they were planning to steal the backpack. If so, why? Value of lost backpack and contents vs. value of dozens of lives. When push came to shove, they did the right thing.
2) Anyone who dislikes the campaign because of the person who started it could have beat the guy to it and started a similar campaign him-/herself.
3) If you don't like GoFundMe and similar schemes, then seek oiut charities and find those you want to support. Look up information about each charity -- everything has to be reported to the gov't and is on the internet. If it's not there, then be wary. It could be people just trying to enrich themselves, just like people used to do standing on the street claiming to represent a good cause.
4) Support more government funding to help people, yes, using your taxes. Especially, say, if you've got diabetes but haven't lost a foot and a job yet to the disease, knowing that could eventually be a step you will have to take to save your life. Do more; carp less.
15
I hadn't heard about the backlash until I read this article. Once again I am reminded how stupid and hateful people can be. No one is forced to contribute or required to give money. And by the way, what Capt. Sully did was a pretty unique thing.
43
a year or so ago, two American military guys and their civilian friend bravely thwarted a terrorist attack on a train in Belgium. The French government officially thanked them. Dancing With the Stars put one of them on its show. They were the toast of the town, and no one objected.
These fellows acted no less heroically in my opinion, but the negative crowd reaction to a gesture of gratitude, including the tone of this article, proves that inequality pervades American society in so many ways.
These fellows acted no less heroically in my opinion, but the negative crowd reaction to a gesture of gratitude, including the tone of this article, proves that inequality pervades American society in so many ways.
103
Some people wanted to say thank you and show appreciation to these guys by giving them money. So what if some haters had a problem with other people's gratitude.
11
Two middle-aged men who are down on their luck perform an heroic and unselfish act. They are welcome to whatever good luck comes their way and more. It is also a reminder to all, that when you see people who are obviously poor, you could also be looking at a hero. You never know.
The objection to another charity using Mr. Parker and Mr. White to promote their own agenda is a bit of a stretch. It is opportunistic for sure, but who can say it hasn't helped someone similar to those good men. If you looking for an abuse of charity, there is a presidential candidate that has taken charitable donations and redirected them to pay for his own legal troubles. Focus you anger on him.
The objection to another charity using Mr. Parker and Mr. White to promote their own agenda is a bit of a stretch. It is opportunistic for sure, but who can say it hasn't helped someone similar to those good men. If you looking for an abuse of charity, there is a presidential candidate that has taken charitable donations and redirected them to pay for his own legal troubles. Focus you anger on him.
23
I'm not understanding why some have injected race into this discussion. When they say, "what if these guys were white?" I'm at a loss. After all, Mr. White appears, well . . . white.
And why the knock on Sully? He is hired to speak because he talks about applying your training to calmly and accurately make the right decision at the right time. Clint Eastwood, btw, has made movies about everyday men for decades.
These two guys deserve more attention and gratitude, granted. But that is no one's "fault." They, too, were doing their job--they job as citizens and members of a community. What is telling is that some of the neediest among us risked their lives for everybody. I certainly hope they have access to at least part of the GoFundMe dollars. It's not inappropriate IMHO that social service organizations also receive support on their behalf, but only if that support actually translates into assistance for these everyday heroes.
And why the knock on Sully? He is hired to speak because he talks about applying your training to calmly and accurately make the right decision at the right time. Clint Eastwood, btw, has made movies about everyday men for decades.
These two guys deserve more attention and gratitude, granted. But that is no one's "fault." They, too, were doing their job--they job as citizens and members of a community. What is telling is that some of the neediest among us risked their lives for everybody. I certainly hope they have access to at least part of the GoFundMe dollars. It's not inappropriate IMHO that social service organizations also receive support on their behalf, but only if that support actually translates into assistance for these everyday heroes.
10
the article should have included the link to the go-fund-me page. Here it is
https://www.gofundme.com/2pu6gkc?ssid=747496631&pos=1
it's up to 26K now. : )
https://www.gofundme.com/2pu6gkc?ssid=747496631&pos=1
it's up to 26K now. : )
29
Why the heck not? People give buckets of money to useless causes every day.
If someone wants to give their money away, it is theirs to do whatever they care to do with it. There is nothing wrong with helping these two guys out. They potentially saved many peoples lives. Rewarding them is reasonable.
Why should a plaque or a piece of paper or some other insignificant 'hero' acknowledgement suffice alone? Give them a good steak dinner too.
If someone wants to give their money away, it is theirs to do whatever they care to do with it. There is nothing wrong with helping these two guys out. They potentially saved many peoples lives. Rewarding them is reasonable.
Why should a plaque or a piece of paper or some other insignificant 'hero' acknowledgement suffice alone? Give them a good steak dinner too.
49
My, my...how selfish and judgmental people can be about something that doesn't affect them at all. I wonder if those whose noses got so far into the pudding of the generosity of others wonder to themselves how THEY would handle the challenges that have faced these two men -- or even notice what passes as garbage in our society. Or how would these critics feel if the bombs DID go off, and these two men said, "Oh, yeah, we noticed the backpack but when we looked inside they were bombs and we got scared and just went home"? We may money to see movies where Serendipity plays a role in changing people's lives...maybe someone in their community can find good work and good housing for them at an affordable price? Or maybe Gov. Christie could reach into his personal pockets and help out?
We all DO "owe" something to the kind of people these two men showed themselves to be. The not only did the right thing, they put themselves in peril. Ask yourself if you would do as much.
We all DO "owe" something to the kind of people these two men showed themselves to be. The not only did the right thing, they put themselves in peril. Ask yourself if you would do as much.
49
How foolish, the go fund me page is not something you are forced to do like pay taxes so it is a fine way to do whatever you might want. Great way for those that want to contribute to do so, also great that those that don't want to don't have to.
43
This is a confusing article. The title suggests that people are questioning whether the two men who found the bombs deserve a reward, but the gist of the piece is about possible ulterior motives of two organizations, not whether those two men deserve anything. Then the question as to whether they deserve anything is tossed out again in the last paragraph, along with an odd unrelated zinger aimed at Sully Sullenberger.
27
Sadly, as our nation evolves into more of a narcissistic and pretentious herd of celebrity worshipers, gossip mongers and techno zombies enamoured with the trivial pursuit the alignment of our country's "moral compass" is becoming ever more dysfunctional. Wanton gun violence, economic inequality, home grown terrorism, contamination of our fresh water, mass police executions and moronic political leadership are all contributing to our country's slide down the slippery slope towards totalitarianism or ruination. God help us ...
7
People gave money for them so give it to them. Whats the big deal?
18
This shows the interconnectedness of a society. We all need to feel invested. Even the wealthiest cannot live in a vacuum, though many try. The white anger that is infecting our politics is a mirror of the black anger that has long existed and is born of the same deficiencies; a lack of respect and opportunity for people who have been disrespected by a society that prizes wealth above everything else. There is no longer enough prosperity to go around, even among the white middle class. Religion can not solve this though it does distract people from the real issue. That is why the GOP is using it to recruit. It offers powerless people power, not enough to disrupt the oligarchy of wealth, but enough control over one's neighbors to redirect feelings of anger. Such a tactic has long been the refuge of kings.
8
Frankly speaking they could have been doing coke lines on the device, I do not care, they cared enough to call the police and probably saved countless families the agony of injury or death. That is the weird thing about good samaritans and real life, they do not come neatly tied with a big red bow. Humans lead messy lives so our heros will be messy. The other version of life is hollywood rubbish.
36
It might just be that these cheap attacks on two friends who walked those bombs to a police station, and quite conceivably saved some lives doing it, are coming from people who hate being reminded of their own smallness. And I mean, hate the people who are better than that.
11
Did they think twice on what'll happen if those devices explode while these two removed them?
Did they ask anyone, specially these critics for a reward while doing it? (The backpack being the only reward till then)
Would the critics have a role to play in their lives in future or did they do anything for them earlier?
Aren't we running a risk of demoralising those risking their lives for us; While we live in our comfortable cocoons, just by finding faults in everything, anyone ever does to help humanity?
if we cannot contribute anything, morally or financially the least we must do is shuttttttt up & just admire their courage.
Did they ask anyone, specially these critics for a reward while doing it? (The backpack being the only reward till then)
Would the critics have a role to play in their lives in future or did they do anything for them earlier?
Aren't we running a risk of demoralising those risking their lives for us; While we live in our comfortable cocoons, just by finding faults in everything, anyone ever does to help humanity?
if we cannot contribute anything, morally or financially the least we must do is shuttttttt up & just admire their courage.
32
What a cynical world we inhabit. Thanks to Mr. White and Mr. Parker for doing the right thing. Enjoy the money. Put it to good use in your lives. Don't let ugly people get you down.
40
Seems the author hasn't actually read Mr Sullenberger's bio.
16
These men deserve official recognition from Obama. He, BHO, did win the Nobel Peace Prize by doing absolutely nothing and the action of these two certainly contributed to the collective peace. Wait a minute. Perhaps Mr President Peace Prize should return his medal and it should be given to these two guys. If this guy lived in Vermont, I wold give him a job!
11
I knew somebody would find a way of blaming Obama for this.
15
The vitriol around this is so puzzling to me. It's a go fund me campaign. If you don't think they deserve anything, you don't have to give them anything. If you do think they deserve something, you can give them something.
Also, what's with the random hate towards Captain Sullenberger at the end of the article?
Also, what's with the random hate towards Captain Sullenberger at the end of the article?
52
I agree these men were heroic by their deed of placing the safety of their fellow man above their own, I don't think they distinguished between white, black, asian, muslim , European they just wanted to do the right thing. These are people in our society that fall thru the cracks of our elite society because of circumstances that place them in an unforgiving landscape of poverty and are then victimized by their fellow man who judge them as piranhas on our system - we who have so much to give - yes there are those whom take advantage but in my opinion they are in the minority.
22
I'm not sure what this snarky article accomplishes. It didn't need to be written as it serves little purpose except to rile up readers. It advances nothing editorially and might be better fit for the Post.
25
"Snarky" Really? They might as well die and decrease the surplus population? or would you prefer a more modest proposal?
Exploring and understanding other viewpoints is not as bad as you are making it out to be. Personally I have spent the past year facing myself in the year and wondering if my ethics were as strong as I believed, and I found I came up short. I am now "walking my talk" more strongly than I have in past and find myself a better person for it.
Exploring and understanding other viewpoints is not as bad as you are making it out to be. Personally I have spent the past year facing myself in the year and wondering if my ethics were as strong as I believed, and I found I came up short. I am now "walking my talk" more strongly than I have in past and find myself a better person for it.
2
I disagree. I think the article says a lot about out society--how we can pull together by supporting each other and watching each other's backs. Both men looked past their own difficult circumstances to help both each other and their fellow citizens.
7
In less than the time it takes me to write this, $21,000 has been spent on presidential candidate tv ads. Perspective people, let these guys have their $ and be happy they (and so many others) were not hurt.
48
Where is the evidence of this "backlash" the author talks about? A series of questions is presented with no quotations or sources. Who are the people against these men receiving a reward? Where did they come from? Are there so many of them that it warrants NY Times coverage? This is a manufactured controversy. Sad that it's not enough of a story just to talk about who these men are and what they did.
14
Excellent point. I didn't notice on first reading that there isn't a single quote to an actual human being who has problems with this campaign. This is like one of these FOX news stories where a newscaster says "They say" as an excuse to make accusations that no one else has actually made. This story shouldn't have been written and shouldn't have been published.
2
I raise my bottle of Chang beer, a popular brand here in Thailand, to these two guys and their beer run.
They didn't declare themselves heroes. They didn't start the online campaign.
But if they really did decide to carry away the backpack from a populated area, that was a very brave act.
If people want to give them money, they should get it all.
Who among us, if we had taken one or two steps down the wrong path at key intersections of life, might also find ourselves living in the same conditions as these apparently harmless guys.
I think I would've dropped the back pack and run away in terror, not thinking about other passersby.
Gentlemen, this Chang is for you.
They didn't declare themselves heroes. They didn't start the online campaign.
But if they really did decide to carry away the backpack from a populated area, that was a very brave act.
If people want to give them money, they should get it all.
Who among us, if we had taken one or two steps down the wrong path at key intersections of life, might also find ourselves living in the same conditions as these apparently harmless guys.
I think I would've dropped the back pack and run away in terror, not thinking about other passersby.
Gentlemen, this Chang is for you.
35
We ask our neighbors to be vigilant for suspicious activity and report it. We should reward those
who come forward despite the danger posed by it. We all owe them big time.
Thank you isn't enough, but a monetary contribution to their wellbeing could go a long way as
an incentive to keep us safe.
who come forward despite the danger posed by it. We all owe them big time.
Thank you isn't enough, but a monetary contribution to their wellbeing could go a long way as
an incentive to keep us safe.
18
I am very glad to hear these men were offered rewards. They were brave and did not act out of selfish motives.
Too many people feel freed by the internet to express vicious ideas...it's no wonder, given that Trump is running for president and encourages this kind of discourse.
This story also highlights that many of the unemployed are good people who are trustworthy, honorable and able. Someone should hire these men to be security guards!
Too many people feel freed by the internet to express vicious ideas...it's no wonder, given that Trump is running for president and encourages this kind of discourse.
This story also highlights that many of the unemployed are good people who are trustworthy, honorable and able. Someone should hire these men to be security guards!
22
These gentlemen deserve the Key to the City along with a monetary reward. What they did was a beautiful act of kindness. With everything they were going through it could've caused them to be bitter with society and decided to simply walk away from the bombs with an "Oh, Well!". They didn't. Would people question this crowd sourcing if the gentlemen were white? Where is Mayor DeBlasio with that key and monetary reward? He can use my taxes to support them!
17
This happened in Elizabeth, NJ, not New York City. the Mayor of Elizabeth is named J. Christian Bollwage . He has been serving since 1992.
2
These two brave men probably saved many lives, and offered law enforcement invaluable information that was intact. They deserve the nation's gratitude and any help that generous souls would like to give them.
32
Ah, yes, Millennial-aimed hatred of social media fame thrown in for absolutely no reason. Oh wait, there is a reason: to undermine the legitimacy of a piece on two do-good homeless men. Their accomplishment was in no way on par with fashioning the perfect online persona. Their accomplishment was potentially preventing serious loss of life in Manhattan.
Then the author chooses to combine that whole mess of comparisons with yet another one that, for some reason, God knows why, that paints a pilot who saved many lives by landing on the Hudson River in a bad light. Horrible.
"Honor and respect" won't get them housing, so why not give them money, which will, if you can give to help them find shelter? It's not mandatory, it's voluntary, and I for one will be hopping over to give to Elizabeth Coalition to House the Homeless right after I post this comment.
Also, "part of his food was amputated, he told me."... How does this line get in there? Use your fact-checking team. Either his foot is partially amputated or it isn't. "He told me" paints him as a liar and is also very lazy journalism.
Then the author chooses to combine that whole mess of comparisons with yet another one that, for some reason, God knows why, that paints a pilot who saved many lives by landing on the Hudson River in a bad light. Horrible.
"Honor and respect" won't get them housing, so why not give them money, which will, if you can give to help them find shelter? It's not mandatory, it's voluntary, and I for one will be hopping over to give to Elizabeth Coalition to House the Homeless right after I post this comment.
Also, "part of his food was amputated, he told me."... How does this line get in there? Use your fact-checking team. Either his foot is partially amputated or it isn't. "He told me" paints him as a liar and is also very lazy journalism.
19
There is on the secular part of the Right a hatred of the homeless. Perhaps that motivated the backlash. It's shameful to attack two heroes who risked their lives. What matter if others give them money?
21
"There is on the secular part of the Right..."
There's a non-religious sector in the political right wing? Presumably you mean an obscure wing of the republican party. Atheists against the homeless?
I did not know that.
There's a non-religious sector in the political right wing? Presumably you mean an obscure wing of the republican party. Atheists against the homeless?
I did not know that.
1
Mr. Parker was quoted in a nj.com article: "'When we figured out what it was, Ivan made me aware of what's been going on in different places,'" Parker said. "'So right there I knew that this is one of those incidents not to take lightly at all. So that's why we made the authorities aware.'"
They could have put the knapsack down and walked away. But they didn't. They did the right thing. I shudder to think what could have happened.
They could have put the knapsack down and walked away. But they didn't. They did the right thing. I shudder to think what could have happened.
41
The problems with part of the money going to charitable organizations are 1) the charitable organization did not find the bomb and move it at its own risk so that it would not harm others, 2) the men who did that altruistic thing did not request that money go to a charitable organization, and 3) it's hard to discover how much of a charity's income goes to the charity and how much to overhead.
If money is raised to reward these two fine men, I think the money should go to them. There is no reason to add another beneficiary who had nothing to do with the bomb in there.
If money is raised to reward these two fine men, I think the money should go to them. There is no reason to add another beneficiary who had nothing to do with the bomb in there.
107
If you are interested in learning more about the charities you support, go to www.guidestar.org.
I'd go see a movie about Mr. White and Mr. Parker. Heroes indeed!
9
The real problem here is not that people want to give money to these two very deserving gentlemen, but that they are also being forced to give some money to a (possibly) undeserving charity. If the GoFundMe page had only been for Ivan and Lee, I would have donated in an instant, but the guys who started the page have cleverly bundled in the charity that I have no intention of giving anything to. They have learnt their lessons well from our politicians, who leave no opportunity to bundle in pet causes into bills that would otherwise be straightforward in Congress (Zika funding, anyone?). The action item here - someone please just set up a GoFundMe page ONLY for Lee and Ivan.
6
No they are not forced, you could make your own page to suit your desires.
1
NY Times please provide the link for the GO Fund Me account!
3
Our society routinely awards CEOs that wreck their own companies millions of dollars in severance pay. A couple of poor guys do the right thing and people want to give them some financial help to put them on the path to the American dream - now that's controversial! Poor people getting money for exhibiting courage and selflessness? They're supposed to do that for free!
23
Send them some cash. Be thankful; then just be content and be compassionate.
9
What a weird, hostile article. "Crowdfunding — a great vessel of cultural entitlement," "crash-landing an airplane when you are, in fact, an airline pilot" both highly debatable assertions. I would guess writing them unchalleneged in the formally good gray New York Times would pass muster as "cultural entitlement" all on its own.
12
These guys are operating on the edge. And they apparently have not lost their humanity despite their circumstances. They did a good and decent thing, so any charity given in appreciation or out of empathy is also a good and decent thing. No judgments need be made, no saccharine plaudits are necessary. Let's just take from this that there are still right-minded people among us, however rare, and call it a friday blessing in jersey.
11
Like many NYT readers I have spent a lot of mornings reading the mostly awful Trump-slanted political opinion pieces and the buckets of furious and anguished comments that trail in their wake. (There is relief. Thankfully, Krugman and Blow are now standing up and doing their jobs.)
This article is an awful, small minded and journalistically greedy, but the comments in support of the drive to reward them, well, they swell my heart and remind me of the decency and good will that is the best of what Americans truly are every day and what the rise of Trump's fascism is mocking and trying to sweep away. Thanks, folks! Great morning.
This article is an awful, small minded and journalistically greedy, but the comments in support of the drive to reward them, well, they swell my heart and remind me of the decency and good will that is the best of what Americans truly are every day and what the rise of Trump's fascism is mocking and trying to sweep away. Thanks, folks! Great morning.
15
Did Mr. Parker get the job?
Can some of the readers in the NY NJ area interview them for jobs?
Can some of the readers in the NY NJ area interview them for jobs?
12
Really! With his diabetes and bad foot Mr. White surely is capable of a decent job also. And here with all the racial rage you see a picture of nice guys, one black and one white, being incredible selfless heroes. They deserve jobs, health care, housing, and permanent great meals. Think of all the lives they potentially saved! Even with the bombs not exploding their act enabled the FBI to research ever more deeply into this terrorist.
6
Years ago, when something bad happened, a jar would be put on counters at local stores for people to put a money gift in for the person in need. Several times in our town a bank set up a special account so people could contribute to a family in need for funeral expenses, or a burned out home.
I have contributed once to a GoFundMe because I knew who the family was that desperately needed the money. That, IMO, is different from sending money to strangers asking for help because there is a chance that the people aren't really getting all of it.
I have contributed once to a GoFundMe because I knew who the family was that desperately needed the money. That, IMO, is different from sending money to strangers asking for help because there is a chance that the people aren't really getting all of it.
2
The headline of this article is absurd......they are, without a doubt, owed a great deal of gratitude. That this is even a question is amazing!
The author struggles to find a consistent point of view. Throwing Sully in there, and implying that somehow his actions were not equally heroic, further muddles the overall point.....
The author struggles to find a consistent point of view. Throwing Sully in there, and implying that somehow his actions were not equally heroic, further muddles the overall point.....
14
These guys were not seeking reward when they discovered the backpack, recognized its contents, took it to a safer location, and notified police of the find. If people wish to give them money, so be it.
The people associated with the group wishing to benefit from these gentlemen's good deed, may be a bit suspect.
The people associated with the group wishing to benefit from these gentlemen's good deed, may be a bit suspect.
9
GoFundMe has become tiresome due to all the greed (Please pay off my credit card debt!) and scams. The suspicion doesn't surprise me.
That said, these men deserve a reward, and I hope Mr Parker gets consideration for a suitable job.
That said, these men deserve a reward, and I hope Mr Parker gets consideration for a suitable job.
11
If the funding page and campaign was newsworthy enough to be written about, why wouldn't the NYT put a link to it?
5
What do we owe people who risked their lives (they carried the bombs to a safe area) who may have saved lives and prevented a great deal of property damage?
Plenty!
Plenty!
17
Interesting story by the Times. Interesting because the Times is trying to create a story that is different than reported. As noted by other commentators, the title questions what are Parker and White owed in terms of gratitude for finding the bombs yet the story reports that the questions raised are about the group that actually engaged in the crowd funding attempt, not Parker and White. Furthermore, I am puzzled by the snide remark about Sullenberger, that "crash-landing an airplane when you are, in fact, an airline pilot can lead to speaking engagements, global fame and a movie about you starring Tom Hanks." The Times aught to be sued for that libelous misrepresentation of what Sullenberger actually did. He did not crash-land a plane, he successfully landed a plane that lost all power and was going to crash but for his successfully water landing which by all accounts was highly unlikely, that is, a successful landing in the river was highly unlikely. It was a miracle that he landed it in the river without anyone getting hurt. And then the righteous writer for the New York Times reports it as it if were his fault yet he profits by it. For shame! You owe Sullenberger an apology as well as Parker and White. Ginia Bellafante owes them an apology. If she wants to do hatchet work, give her a meat cleaver and send her to an abattoir.
36
Exactly! The headline did not accurately describe the article. (That's sort of getting to be a more common occurrence in the age of clicks).
But what shocked me, was the writer's parallel of somebody with a lot of Instagram followers, with a pilot making a successful emergency water-landing of an unpowered jet in the Hudson... What?! Where do you come up with that kind of snark?!
I know a number of pilots, some Air Force and Air National Guard and some commercial... They all just said, "Wow!" and were totally impressed with that level of skill, to make that landing.
Ginia, you owe a big apology to Capt. Sullenberger.
But what shocked me, was the writer's parallel of somebody with a lot of Instagram followers, with a pilot making a successful emergency water-landing of an unpowered jet in the Hudson... What?! Where do you come up with that kind of snark?!
I know a number of pilots, some Air Force and Air National Guard and some commercial... They all just said, "Wow!" and were totally impressed with that level of skill, to make that landing.
Ginia, you owe a big apology to Capt. Sullenberger.
13
That's quite a leap: from an a guy looking for work and finding a bag of bombs to a pilot landing a disabled plane in the river. Both accidentally saved lives, I suppose. So good luck all around. And the cash? That's the American Way. That's how we do.
26
I believe a lot of the funding that goes into these events is "survivor guilt ".
Everyone is stunned at the immensity of various situations, money seems to be the modern salve for what hurts you.
I remember clearly the 911 victims funds that began almost immeadiately after the attack, ultimately making every surviving family worth millions on average.
The families of the Oklahoma bombing got substantially less, large amounts but less than the WTC families.
Everyone is stunned at the immensity of various situations, money seems to be the modern salve for what hurts you.
I remember clearly the 911 victims funds that began almost immeadiately after the attack, ultimately making every surviving family worth millions on average.
The families of the Oklahoma bombing got substantially less, large amounts but less than the WTC families.
1
What would an expert in bomb threats advise? I'm not an expert, but my gut reaction is that moving the bomb was the wrong thing to do . . . I think that immediately calling emergency services is the right thing to do.
But, what a lot of Americans don't realize is that many live in cities where calling the police is a waste of time. Yep, that's right, you could call the police in many American cities and basically be told, "Oh, okay! Goodbye."
Let me give you some examples:
I once found a large caliber hollow point bullet near a school in Newark, NJ. I called the police, and they were not interested. No big deal you say!
I once tried to report an open manhole cover in Newark, but when I told the dispatcher where is was (address) she responded that she had no clue about where the street was.
I once used a brand new credit card at a Newark city office and within hours it was being used locally to buy gas and cell phones. Coincidence? Maybe, but the card was taken by the clerk and then possibly double scanned---once for the legitimate charge, and then again on a card scanner to get the details. Yep, I tried to report it, but I was told to go away. Oh, even the FBI had no interest.
But, what a lot of Americans don't realize is that many live in cities where calling the police is a waste of time. Yep, that's right, you could call the police in many American cities and basically be told, "Oh, okay! Goodbye."
Let me give you some examples:
I once found a large caliber hollow point bullet near a school in Newark, NJ. I called the police, and they were not interested. No big deal you say!
I once tried to report an open manhole cover in Newark, but when I told the dispatcher where is was (address) she responded that she had no clue about where the street was.
I once used a brand new credit card at a Newark city office and within hours it was being used locally to buy gas and cell phones. Coincidence? Maybe, but the card was taken by the clerk and then possibly double scanned---once for the legitimate charge, and then again on a card scanner to get the details. Yep, I tried to report it, but I was told to go away. Oh, even the FBI had no interest.
2
My jaw dropped when I read the poke at "the airline pilot." The article makes it sound as if he were somehow responsible for the crash! Are you suggesting a rapid calculation of the value of his story on Twitter somehow flashed through Sullenberger's head as he managed to land in the river? Or that, though he was not actually at fault, he deserves no accolades because "he was, in fact, an airline pilot"? Firefighters who rushed to the World Trade Center were in fact firefighters--does that make them less heroic?
What a sad, cynical, little worldview...
What a sad, cynical, little worldview...
12
Those men were braver than me. I would have gotten out of there and called police as soon as I saw the bombs. They risked their lives by first taking the backpack to a place where it wouldn't hurt anyone if it went off. That is real courage. It might be argued they should have left it alone, called police and the area would have been cordoned off but regardless of whether moving it was the right thing to do, nothing can detract from the fact of their courage and good intentions. The author of this article is incorrect in giving the impression that the advent of crowd sourcing and the internet has newly created a reward system for such behavior. It has merely facilitated it. Public subscriptions rewarding heroism or meeting needs are an old tradition. They have sometimes been motivated by respect, sometimes by sympathy and sometimes by factional enthusiasms. Such rewards, when motivated by popular prejudice or transient political perceptions, have not always gone to deserving people. The infamous General Reginald Dyer, "Butcher of Amritsar," was rewarded with a public subscription of over 26,000 pounds (over 1 million dollars in today's money.) But more often such funds have rewarded people of merit. It is nothing new and in the present case, these two men well deserve a substantial thank you from the general public. A pat on the back is nice but it does not buy any groceries.
5
Don't get me wrong, I love the New York Times. But occasionally the authors of these articles evade the realities of people's situations in favor of sexy and engaging language. Example at hand:
"Almost as soon as Mr. Rahami was taken into custody, on Monday, an online campaign was started on the site GoFundMe.com, intended to raise $10,000 as a show of gratitude for Mr. Parker and Mr. White, who by virtue of sartorial need and serendipity had averted a potentially lethal terrorist attack."
Since when does finding a much needed new backpack constitute a 'sartorial need'? Excellent word? Yes. Representative of Mr. Parker's situation? No.
Perhaps reporters should focus on the human aspects of these stories rather than the finesse of their writing.
"Almost as soon as Mr. Rahami was taken into custody, on Monday, an online campaign was started on the site GoFundMe.com, intended to raise $10,000 as a show of gratitude for Mr. Parker and Mr. White, who by virtue of sartorial need and serendipity had averted a potentially lethal terrorist attack."
Since when does finding a much needed new backpack constitute a 'sartorial need'? Excellent word? Yes. Representative of Mr. Parker's situation? No.
Perhaps reporters should focus on the human aspects of these stories rather than the finesse of their writing.
6
It's a bad day when Americans debate the virtue of an act of generosity to two people who by any measure performed a distinct public service which probably saved lives.
It's even worse when the legitimacy of a group funding effort is questioned merely because it furthers a personal purpose. If a couple can't afford something like an in vitro fertilization, who's to question the public's right to help them.
As for questions about the involved charities, people can express their views by donating or not.
It's even worse when the legitimacy of a group funding effort is questioned merely because it furthers a personal purpose. If a couple can't afford something like an in vitro fertilization, who's to question the public's right to help them.
As for questions about the involved charities, people can express their views by donating or not.
3
Split the money up as was the plan.
They did the right thing. If people want to send them some money in appreciation, that's fine.
Writer of this article might make a distinction between "crash-landing" a plane and "safely crash-landing". What's with the Sully bashing?
Writer of this article might make a distinction between "crash-landing" a plane and "safely crash-landing". What's with the Sully bashing?
5
I just saw "Sully" and it prompted me to think that there is another feel-good story in the aftermath of the bombing. There was an element of luck involved and people worked together to create a positive outcome. It's too bad there's so much focus on being hateful, angry and afraid.
1
They could have dumped the dangerous material and kept the backpack instead of taking it out of a populated area and reporting it to the police. I am happy to see so many positive comments to offset somewhat the mean spirited stuff.
Thanks guys.
Thanks guys.
9
The point of mentioning Sully is that we are a reality TV nation. There are many pilots who have safely landed doomed planes, some in worst condition than the "miracle on the Hudson." Can you name any of the other pilots? How does a plane crash get a name? Media sensationalism! This also works in the opposite way by putting undue fear in people like reporting shark attacks, when in actuality, shark attacks are not higher than normal. " 5 minutes of fame" is a media created phenomenon. Depending on which publication you read, for example the tabloid papers, some of that fame is undesirable. We have had different periods in the history of the world, historians will look back and call this the "Reality Television Period." Children will study it in schools.
1
Well Gee Sully did his job and did it very well. In doing so he saved himself as well as everyone else. In the US you can make a lot of money from many things, beating folks up in boxing or wrestling, or writing books or films. That is how the market works.
1
Two points:
Their original story was they saw the backpack, and grabbed it hoping something valuable was in it. They carried it away from the scene before opening it--but it was heavy so they made it about 500-1000 yards before they put it down where no one was around and checked to see what was in it. To their credit, they then discovered the bomb, left the pack and contacted the police. Sounds a little less heroic than in the new telling, but they did the right thing and should be credited with that. Also sounds a little like they stole an unattended backpack, but they could argue it was abandoned.
Second point, it really sounds like the charity is trying to get a free ride on the backs of the two men who found the bomb. The article suggests the charity did so without the permission or even knowledge of White and Parker. And the charity was keeping a large portion of the money. This is what generated a backlash, not some perceived antipathy to crowdfunding generally.
Their original story was they saw the backpack, and grabbed it hoping something valuable was in it. They carried it away from the scene before opening it--but it was heavy so they made it about 500-1000 yards before they put it down where no one was around and checked to see what was in it. To their credit, they then discovered the bomb, left the pack and contacted the police. Sounds a little less heroic than in the new telling, but they did the right thing and should be credited with that. Also sounds a little like they stole an unattended backpack, but they could argue it was abandoned.
Second point, it really sounds like the charity is trying to get a free ride on the backs of the two men who found the bomb. The article suggests the charity did so without the permission or even knowledge of White and Parker. And the charity was keeping a large portion of the money. This is what generated a backlash, not some perceived antipathy to crowdfunding generally.
2
Tons of people trash pick in NJ. They were not stealing anything, Mr. Parker was trying to upgrade his appearance for a job interview. It really stinks to be poor in USA - there is no way you can come near survival much less success.
8
These two men deserve whatever good they can find. Any of us could be in their shoes.
5
Despite their own worries, these two gentlemen the did the right thing and took the backpack to a safe location. Would we all have done the same thing? I don't think so. Yes, they deserve not only our support but our respect and love as well. I much rather give these fine citizens $25 than give any one of the politicians 25 cents. Thank you, gentlemen, you displayed real bravery, citizenship, and caring for your fellow man. God bless you both.
11
What a great story about two very decent men. Now, has anyone asked Mr. White and Mr. Parker what they want? It sounds like Mr. Parker wants a job. Is there someone who will hire him? And similarly Mr. White -- he has some health issues but might like to get back to work as well. I'm imagine they could both use some cash, but a steady income is better.
14
The money was collected with the intention of rewarding these men for doing the right thing. They endangered their lives taking the bombs where they wouldn't hurt anyone. Then they notified the authorities.
Why not reward these men who were clearly in need? If people want to reward them they should be able to. We don't "owe" them anything, but I think it is wonderful that people can express their gratitude by helping these men financially. It is hard to imagine what would cause the backlash. Jealousy? I don't know.
Why not reward these men who were clearly in need? If people want to reward them they should be able to. We don't "owe" them anything, but I think it is wonderful that people can express their gratitude by helping these men financially. It is hard to imagine what would cause the backlash. Jealousy? I don't know.
18
These two gentlemen are selfless heroes. Their only motivation was to prevent injury and save lives, at considerable risk to themselves. They didn't seek to profit from their heroism. That others seek to help them and give them a boost is great. They already have my respect for their heroism. Now they have my contribution to their well being as well.
46
Both men ran enormous personal risks moving that booby trap. They were lucky. The bomb-maker was a novice, for all his overseas training; and a rather unimaginative one at that by all appearances. A grizzled Afghan veteran would have known how to cover that possibility. He would have rigged his bombs to detonate if jostled or tilted.
So they deserve more than some modest cash handouts split however many ways. They deserve serious outside intervention to salvage their lives from someone in a position to do it and make it work. Job training, by an employer who also provides housing while they retrain, to spare them more months squandered on the streets.
Far too many other Americans placed on a proverbial trash heap by our "Devil take the hindmost" social-Darwinist society, for want of a better description, won't get anything remotely like it. There they will remain, abandoned to whatever chance and fate have in store for them.
So they deserve more than some modest cash handouts split however many ways. They deserve serious outside intervention to salvage their lives from someone in a position to do it and make it work. Job training, by an employer who also provides housing while they retrain, to spare them more months squandered on the streets.
Far too many other Americans placed on a proverbial trash heap by our "Devil take the hindmost" social-Darwinist society, for want of a better description, won't get anything remotely like it. There they will remain, abandoned to whatever chance and fate have in store for them.
51
People should't have to do heroic acts to "deserve" medical care and shelter.
3
Oh the crazy complications of capitalism. These two men not only did a good thing they did a brave thing. With nothing to lose they could have looked in that back pack and just walked away. They were thoughtful enough to place it somewhere to prevent greater harm before they alerted the authorities. Should they be rewarded? Absolutely! Not with just money but with access to a place to live, some kind of employment and health care and it should come from the state. Contrast their actions with that of their greedy conniving governor and friends.
77
Would this article be written if these 2 guys were white?
15
My concern is - would the monetary compensation been questioned if these two men were white?
4
No. Their would be no need. They would have instantly been plauded as "heroes" had that been the case.
2
You're right! Look at all the bombs white guys have discovered in backpacks and have reported them to the police. I guess that happens so often you just don't hear about it. Shame on me for not paying attention.
Another thought: compare the actions of these two down-and-out men vs. those of Martin Shkreli, the guy who unrepentantly boosted drug prices. These two men have nothing, but they risked their lives to do the right thing. The other guy, whose name I won't repeat again, is loaded with money and grasping for more, and has no problem if lives are lost along the way.
Again, nice country we live in. Twisted, tortured values.
Again, nice country we live in. Twisted, tortured values.
44
Fortunately, for some reason, Shkreli's name doesn't seem to be in the news anymore. Although there are others of similar ilk that have taken his place.
GO FUND ME IS too risky.
1
It is also voluntary. Some people choose to use it. You don't have to if you think it is risky. I think it is great as a vehicle to help people.
2
nothing says i love you in the land of the free and home of the brave like money.
9
The problem here is a basic one: ownership society. Common sense since Reagan is the government, despite what the Constitution says, really isn't supposed to provide for the common good. We are supposed to have the right to pick and choose which charities we support (including churches, obscuring the boundary between church and state), then deduct from our income tax. The fact that a man is forced to sleep "on a series of sofas" while looking for work, and pick through trash for job-interview wardrobe, go without health care, is a tribute to the reality of "the greatest country in the world." The USA needs to be rebuilt from the bottom up.
32
Joe you really should read some history about America 's founding . Ownership of property is one of those fundamental rights.
I am also amazed how many people believe that someone in DC is better qualified to help an individual than that persons neighbors.
Unfortunately liberalism has taught us that we do not have to help anyone because that is the governments job.
By the way Reagan was great President. I know because I lived through Johnson , Nixon, Ford and Carter.
I am also amazed how many people believe that someone in DC is better qualified to help an individual than that persons neighbors.
Unfortunately liberalism has taught us that we do not have to help anyone because that is the governments job.
By the way Reagan was great President. I know because I lived through Johnson , Nixon, Ford and Carter.
1
Jay ownership of property was a right for a certain class of white men in 1776. African Americans could not own property, and recently you can see looking at Mr. Trump´s business history and redlining that even today African American home ownership is difficult. Women of all races have been denied home mortgages until relatively recently.
1
I wish these guys could receive life changing money for their life saving deed. $20,000 is not life changing money by the way. An irrevocable annuity purchased with 2.5 million dollars for each of them from a stable source such as Fidelity Investments, would be life changing money.
23
In a way, I find it peculiar that Sully has turned what was doing his job, into a full time consulting business with lots of financial spin offs. I can understand it, and would likely be tempted to do the same, but it raises the question of opportunity. Do you think Clint Eastwood will pursue Mr. White and Mr. Parker for the heroics they performed in finding, handling, and reporting bombs that potentially could have killed more people than Flight 1549?
8
He should.
1
Wow, now someone is using this as an excuse to bash Sully? Seriously? Frankly, it was jarring the way he was referred to in this article, as if landing a plane in the Hudson was no different than anything else a pilot does. And you used it to pile on. Sorry. Leave Sully alone. I don't care how much money he makes; on that day, he did something astonishing.
8
As a pilot I can say the probably only one in 100 or maybe 1 in 1,000 pilots would have achieved the same result in real like. That make his experience worth sharing. By the way I have seen compelling presentations by a person who was a passengers on this fight. No one had any complaints about the pilot.
Finally let me say that they heroic resoponce by ferry boats and tug boats ( maritime community) helped to make this landing the success it was.
Finally let me say that they heroic resoponce by ferry boats and tug boats ( maritime community) helped to make this landing the success it was.
8
I have contributed to GoFundMe's but always only for people I know. It serves a genuine good purpose for that. The family whose house burned, the woman who fell off her horse and is out of work for 6 months, the guy with cancer who lost his job. Real people, real situations. The money raised really would not have come from anywhere else, and the amounts are often substantial, so they really do help people needing help. I cant say what proportion of fundraisings are unimportant, but the ones I have done have been really important
6
I don't understand the backlash - some people who were grateful to these two men wanted to show thanks by helping them out financially. If you don't want to give money, then don't give money.
50
What do we owe those who do good? A "thank you." What do we owe the people in our country who are having trouble? Support. That's a general sentiment independent of the current circumstances. We live in a community for a reason -- so that when one of us needs help, the rest of us can pick up the slack. Why? Because the next person could be us or someone we love. That's why we have these systems in place, and they should be working for all people -- not just the small subset of those who happen to find a terrorist device and turn it in to the authorities.
29
I didn't appreciate the knock on Sully Sullenberger here. Imagine if he would have failed.
And imagine if these guys said "uh oh, a bomb, I don't want to get involved" and then went and got their beer.
And imagine if these guys said "uh oh, a bomb, I don't want to get involved" and then went and got their beer.
49
I think it is great that Sully is being made a hero. I don't think that crash landing a jet full of people in a river is an easy thing to do and could easily have been botched. Let him be idolized! Better him than some sports hero who beats up women.
11
Nonetheless, being called a "hero" for doing what one has been intensively trained for in an exemplary fashion is a far cry from a good samaritan act at great personal risk that averts a potentially terrible event. The pilot saved his own life by doing his job; it happened to happen in a media capital of the country. These two men could have simply avoided any risk to themselves by moving away from the bomb site and calling/not calling the police. In the former case a job well done that saved his own life and many others; in the latter they placed themselves at risk for the benefit of other. Most would define an heroic act as a selfless, transcendent behavior.
1
I agree about Sully. That really didn't belong in this article.
5
Even serendipitous act of saving other's life deserves to be duly acknowledged and rewarded, leaving other considerations aside.
32
These people did a good deed and should get some sort of compensation for it. A "beer run" has nothing to do with it. The terrorist was a wanted man. Aren't there rewards for finding a wanted man? They contacted the police. They didn't just leave the bomb there for it to explode.
If these people had money -- and daresay if they were white, would there be an issue?
And of course organizations are going to jump on the bandwagon to try to cash in. That's nothing new.
If these people had money -- and daresay if they were white, would there be an issue?
And of course organizations are going to jump on the bandwagon to try to cash in. That's nothing new.
24
I feel many are misinterpreting the issue. It's not that Parker and White should or should not be rewarded. They should. But I read into the account an indication that a charity that neither of them have ever benefited from may get part of it.
No. Don't ride on their coattails. They performed the brave act. They deserve it. All of it.
No. Don't ride on their coattails. They performed the brave act. They deserve it. All of it.
26
Americans are making me sick; so sick of mean spirited, soul-less beings calling them selves human. What is going on? Being kind was once *the rule*, now it is such a rarity that is is met with suspicion. I am beginning to feel (particularly with the upcoming election), America will get exactly what it deserves in leadership [sic].
18
Please note Donna, that no Americans, mean spirited or otherwise are identified of even referenced. Seriously don't judge yourself or anyone else by a few anonymous twits.
1
Anybody can be a hero! These guys proved it. All you need is courage and conviction. Now you can be a hero too, by helping these two heroes!
25
Let Mr. Parker & Mr. White have the money. They were in the right place at the right time & did the right thing. Plus it sounds like they could really use the extra bucks.
23
If folks want to give these guys money, why should I care? And, for that matter, if someone wants to fund someone else's trip to New Zealand, what's that to me? Or, if someone kneels, sits, or just dozes off during the national anthem? What ever happened to the idea of a free country? Let's focus on eliminating the things that do people harm, and stop worrying about and judging everything else. We can find plenty to do. And, yes, I agree with other commentators -- including Sully the pilot in this seems bizarre and a cheap shot. Yes, he is an airline pilot, but I haven't seen many planes parked on the Hudson. It's not like it was a stunt or a dare or something!
54
I want to express my gratitude to Mr. Parker and Mr. White. By being in the right place, at the right time, and doing the right thing, they averted catastrophe and saved lives. I donated and urge the rest of you to do the same. You may dislike the means, but consider the ends. These men deserve our compassion and thanks, and I for one, am proud to give it to them.
37
This is a terrible piece of journalism. Who cares about the petty grievances of a few against the funding campaign? And then it insults pilot Scully? How is that relevant? At least put the link to the GoFundMe campaign for these two brave citizens, who risked their lives to make the situation safer for complete strangers. Come on New York Times! You can do better!
79
Yes! The article's headline makes it seem that some people are protesting the men benefitting from what they did, when that is not the case.
3
It wasn't well edited. There was a story there but it got lost. The issue was who set up the go fund me account -- and were they doing so to exploit the heroics of the guys. But it got lost in beer runs (which from the headline I thought scolds were annoyed it was for alcohol) and Scully. Not sure where that came from.
A commenter above, Joe I think, had it right. When you need to dumpster dive for clothes for a job interview, have no healthcare and are couch surfing because we have no social safety net, gofundme is what percolates.
We should do better. Maybe we can start a go find me for that.
A commenter above, Joe I think, had it right. When you need to dumpster dive for clothes for a job interview, have no healthcare and are couch surfing because we have no social safety net, gofundme is what percolates.
We should do better. Maybe we can start a go find me for that.
2
Jennifer - agree with you completely. The distressing thing is that Ms Bellafante is generally one of the Times' better human interest reporters. It appears as though "creeping Dowdism" and its attendant snark is infecting the rest of the paper.
1
I get the go fund me question. But the guys did the right thing, over and above! Bad headline for the article which appears to call into question what they did! A NYTimes correction is called for. Thank you!
41
@ John McCauley, I agree completely. Why especially is "beer run" in this headline? And why the word "owed" when GoFundMe donations are entirely voluntary. And further, I have to ask, aren't the author and publisher of this article (the Times) also piggybacking off Mr. White and Mr. Parker's notoriety for their own purposes, which which appears to be to gain readers by creating a controversy where one doesn't exist? Because otherwise, there is nothing newsworthy about this story. I can see this kind of article appearing in many other publications, but finding it in the Times was a real surprise and disappointment.
4
Yes, change the headline on this story.
4
What's the question?? -- These guys are owed some major gratitude.
An those who are able, should dig a little deeper.
An those who are able, should dig a little deeper.
46
What are they owed? Infinite amounts. More than anyone. Must we as a society provide housing for all and food for all in our nation and world? Yes!. They saved countless people from maiming or death. They can barely survive now. Let's give them whatever we can, and jobs too, to make sure they never suffer again, just as they saved us. It is time to spread the wealth. And love.
58
These guys did a heroic thing and we, the public, shouldn't send a little money if we like?
How is using the Go Fund Me all that different from the old days when people might pass around a hat?
That this practice of a simple gesture of gratitude is somehow not considered valid or "pure" just makes me sad.
How is using the Go Fund Me all that different from the old days when people might pass around a hat?
That this practice of a simple gesture of gratitude is somehow not considered valid or "pure" just makes me sad.
65
Exactly! Passing around the hat, or the basket, is exactly what we used to do. But the naysayers are few, don't worry.
1
Our star athletes are given ticker tape parades at a considerable cost to the public when they win a title. While their accomplishments do deserve the accolades, it needs to be put in proper perspective.
These two men stepped up and did the right thing, and as good citizens deserve recognition. They deserve every dollar that is donated to them and I care not how they spend it. They did not put a stipulation on carrying out their decision to possibly save lives. Nor should we put a stipulation on what they do with the money donated or assume they will waste it away. It would be stereotypical.
These two men stepped up and did the right thing, and as good citizens deserve recognition. They deserve every dollar that is donated to them and I care not how they spend it. They did not put a stipulation on carrying out their decision to possibly save lives. Nor should we put a stipulation on what they do with the money donated or assume they will waste it away. It would be stereotypical.
62
I think these guys should get every bit of all the money that people willingly donate to them for their good deed. It'd probably be good to do this for any such major good deed, when lives are saved especially.
But I think it bears mentioning, even in articles about this, that if you ever happen to find something you think is an explosive device, PLEASE do not move it. Get clear of it, warn other people away from it, call the cops, but whatever you do, don't relocate it or tamper with it.
We're not bomb experts (unless you happen to be one, no offense), and moving or tampering with anything that really looks like a bomb is like throwing oneself on a live grenade.
So thanks again Mr. Parker and Mr. White, I hope you are well rewarded, but please be more careful next time.
But I think it bears mentioning, even in articles about this, that if you ever happen to find something you think is an explosive device, PLEASE do not move it. Get clear of it, warn other people away from it, call the cops, but whatever you do, don't relocate it or tamper with it.
We're not bomb experts (unless you happen to be one, no offense), and moving or tampering with anything that really looks like a bomb is like throwing oneself on a live grenade.
So thanks again Mr. Parker and Mr. White, I hope you are well rewarded, but please be more careful next time.
101
When police later tried to defuse one of the bombs they found, it exploded! They easily could have died for their extreme bravery, just as our brave troops do every day overseas fighting these futile wars instead of guarding us here where we need them more, and they'll be safer too.-f
3
There's something wrong with a world that stirs resentment of the good fortune of others that damages no one in the process. What is gained when people feel that because someone else gets something, they somehow have less? All of life is not a zero sum game.
There is a better way than trying to compete with one another all the time. See: http://billmoyers.com/story/after-living-in-norway-america-feels-backward/
There is a better way than trying to compete with one another all the time. See: http://billmoyers.com/story/after-living-in-norway-america-feels-backward/
13
Glad to know about the fundraiser. I'm putting my money where my mouth is right now and gofunding right now!
56
Me too!! Good for the guys and the charity who provided the means to help them. Everybody else? Making mountains out of molehills.
1
There's a difference in helping someone who is genuinely down on their luck and helping someone fund a personal wish, such as invitro. Lee Parker and Ivan White did a very good, smart thing. In many criminal cases there are rewards for those who help the police solve a crime. And, well, isn't that what these men did? Some people thought chipping in for reward their way of saying thank you, well done, and also, hope this helps you.
Nobody should dare to politically capitalize off the acts of these men, or the generous public who want to say thank you. And please do include the Coalition, surely there are more out there in need. (As for those nitpicking about including a coalition such as these - you're entitled to your opinion, but it isn't very well done or kind of you to be controversial on reward page, give and say thank you, or don't give and go away.
Nobody should dare to politically capitalize off the acts of these men, or the generous public who want to say thank you. And please do include the Coalition, surely there are more out there in need. (As for those nitpicking about including a coalition such as these - you're entitled to your opinion, but it isn't very well done or kind of you to be controversial on reward page, give and say thank you, or don't give and go away.
87
"Invitro," as you casually call it, is extraordinarily expensive in this country because, well, it has to do with a woman's reproductive organs, and anything having to do with a woman's reproductive organs just drives Americans crazy. The first multi tries are free in France.
8
All medical procedures are crazily expensive in the US if you compare the costs with other countries. Nothing special about in-vitro. The first couple of tries here are also covered by most medical insurance plans. France and other European countries may have more free tries because they are concerned about the very low birth rates - not a problem in the US. Don't make a political issue out of nothing.
3
As they are in most European countries that also have affordable Healthcare for everyone (for instance, an Insurance company is not allowed to refuse you, even if you have cancer or another in the future very expensive disease). Both my wife and I are fully incapacitated, she because a braintumor, me because a handgrenate during one of the many wars I fought) but both had no problem to obtain a full health coverage at the same rates as a fully healthy person, both in Belgium, where we lived for a few years, as in our home country the Netherlands.
And the monthly payment is the same for everyone, somewhere between $ 100 and $ 150 (depending whether you want extra coverage for dental etc).
And the monthly payment is the same for everyone, somewhere between $ 100 and $ 150 (depending whether you want extra coverage for dental etc).
1
The bottom line is they did the right thing. period! Whatever people decide to do with their money is their own choice. Buy a bunch of beer with it fellas!!!
58
Doing the right thing should never be followed by a Go Fund Me proposition.
I detest that we live in the shallows today.
I detest that we live in the shallows today.
What a bizarre article, trying to make a scandal out of...nothing at all, as far as I can tell. "[T]he effort was met with accusations of dark, or at least obscure, motive". Accusations from whom? A bunch of unnamed commenters on a website?
Speaking as an unnamed commenter on a website, I hope you don't make a regular practice of this sort of silliness.
Speaking as an unnamed commenter on a website, I hope you don't make a regular practice of this sort of silliness.
108
These two men are American heroes, and we all should honor them. I would have had neither the courage nor the kindness to do what they did. Not only did they remove the bomb to a safe place, they then reported it to law enforcement. We all know that reporting such a thing to the police would immediately place them in the top tier of suspicion--and this article suggests they may have had reasonable fear of police retaliation--yet this never seemed to have crossed their minds. This is an act of selfless and extraordinary public service far beyond the call of duty and demonstrates exceptional character. In addition to the crowdfunded cash, I would trust that they receive scads of employment offers--what sensible business wouldn't want to have these two good men working with them?
118
Instead of having to go through a Fund Me I would suggest the mayor of the town should see to it they get decent housing and a job to sustain themselves. They surely deserve that and they will be so much more relieved and have a boost to their selfesteem if they can be productive members of society again.
They only need a leg up and it can easely be given to them by the mayor and I doubt anyone will complain if some of their tax dollars go to help those two heroes.
They only need a leg up and it can easely be given to them by the mayor and I doubt anyone will complain if some of their tax dollars go to help those two heroes.
Asking the public for money for anything, even the highest, most noble cause one can imagine, is a minefield. The established organizations, like the Red Cross, get a lot of criticism for using disasters as the basis for their general fund raising and, to me, they deserve it. When people want to help after a specific event, money should go to that cause, not the general fund. In any case, no matter which way one goes, there will be criticism, some of it very sharp and based on incorrect information or ideas.
Likewise, giving lump sums of money to people who have nothing is filled with problems as well. Handling lump sums can be difficult, which is one reason that a paycheck every two weeks works better for most people, even though it binds them to waiting on the next one continually if they don't make anything extra.
I don't mind if these guys get a hundred thousand dollars. They did what was right and put themselves at risk in the process. If they get money, I just hope they use it well and realize that blowing it all at once is a very bad idea.
Likewise, giving lump sums of money to people who have nothing is filled with problems as well. Handling lump sums can be difficult, which is one reason that a paycheck every two weeks works better for most people, even though it binds them to waiting on the next one continually if they don't make anything extra.
I don't mind if these guys get a hundred thousand dollars. They did what was right and put themselves at risk in the process. If they get money, I just hope they use it well and realize that blowing it all at once is a very bad idea.
26
Are you open to people telling you what to do with your money? I find your opinion filled with judgement and privilege.
5
Why take a shot at Sully at the end of the article? You think Sully is a product of social media? The Sully story would have been gigantic in any era. #clueless.
150
Exactly. Agreed.
11
Concur, Sully was a tireless worker/advocate for aviation safety before the accident and still is. I am a pilot and am still amazed at how well the crew handled everything. Clearly unrelated to this article and a cheap shot.
17
Yeah, that was pretty paltry! The humanistic are stunningly impressed with Mr. Sully! Live long and prosper Mr. Sully!!!!!
2
"If you see something, say something". Thank you Mr. White and Mr. Parker. You saved countless lives.
You deserve whatever money has been raised for you.
You deserve whatever money has been raised for you.
97
Even as criticism was mounting, the effort to raise $10,000 reached more than twice its goal. That money should be distributed exactly as advertised.
23
If they're that poor and they're wasting their money on beer, I have no pity.
6
So poor people have no right to spend their money on a common way to relax? No, they must grovel and slave, depriving themselves of any solace. What else do they think they shouldn't be allowed to waste their money upon? Anything with sugar? Fresh fruit and vegetables? A cell phone? Air conditioning? After all - they are poor, and should suffer for it.
You say you have "no pity." What you really mean is that you have no empathy. Disaster may overcome any one of us on any day - even you. "There, but for the grace of God, go I."
You say you have "no pity." What you really mean is that you have no empathy. Disaster may overcome any one of us on any day - even you. "There, but for the grace of God, go I."
18
Wow! Poor people dont deserve to have a beer when watching a football game like everyone else does? I guess that those luxuries are only for people like you!
14
So don't ever have a beer if you're poor, they'll have no pity. A little perspective is useful. even for those utterly lacking in Christian charity.
8
How much money did Sarah Palin make from her reality TV show? Millions? These two guys are real reality that actually did some good in this world. Let them make a few bucks. We have corporate crooks stealing millions with their banking scams and drug prices and have amassed vast fortunes doing it. Many honor them as champions of capitalism. They are just crooks in fancy clothes. Cash in guys. You deserve it.
286
The money will last a while but decent JOBs will keep them going.
48
I could not agree more and so will both men. They clearly want to work and it will boost their selfesteem.
Also giving them a decent place to live would do wonders for them.
And because they will be productive members of society again they will pay back all that has been given in taxes, make them feel proud of themselves again.
Also giving them a decent place to live would do wonders for them.
And because they will be productive members of society again they will pay back all that has been given in taxes, make them feel proud of themselves again.
2
Isn't the simple answer here that those who do not wish to contribute shouldn't do so? Not sure why someone would have a grievance with another's charitable donation, unless that donation were actively causing some sort of harm.
45
I haven't read all the comments yet, so if this is a repeat, well, it deserves repeating: Obama needs to invite them to the White House to get a medal. At the least, Corey Booker needs to honor them on the floor of the Senate. New Jersians, make this happen!
64
The guy doesn't have to splurge before going to the White House. He could dress up in that Macy's jacket he found when he visits the president.
Kudos to these two gentlemen.
But why was the backpack with 5 bombs on the trash can? Was it placed for some conspirators to pick up? Or was it abandoned by the bomber for some other reasons?
But why was the backpack with 5 bombs on the trash can? Was it placed for some conspirators to pick up? Or was it abandoned by the bomber for some other reasons?
7
I'm not sure you understand how placing the bombs in a trash can turns the trash can into a larger and more powerful frag bomb.
18
My understanding is the backpack was on the top of the trash can, not in it, and it contained 5 explosive devices. Also, police were seeking two men video connected to another unexploded pressure cooker device in NYC.
2
Well, there was a way to inform macbloom of that without sounding snide. It involves not prefacing your explanation with "I'm not sure you understand."
1
If people are opposed to these men receiving money via crowdfunding - then they shouldn't contribute. If people feel these men are deserving of some help - because by all accounts they do need help - or because they see it as a reward - then by all means they should contribute contribute. It is that simple.
64
They are straightforward heroes, they stepped up when it was most needed and it is welcome to see this in a week of predominantly bad news.
I hope that the disputes regarding best use of funds do not get in the way of fulfilling the intent of those who made the online donations. The donations should be processed according to the purpose that was posted when they were made.
I'm thankful and wish these two more than good luck and a temporary financial band aid: regular paid work or appropriate occupational training, and better health.
I hope that the disputes regarding best use of funds do not get in the way of fulfilling the intent of those who made the online donations. The donations should be processed according to the purpose that was posted when they were made.
I'm thankful and wish these two more than good luck and a temporary financial band aid: regular paid work or appropriate occupational training, and better health.
58
Wow! These guys are real life true Americans. Honesty, bravery, integrity, altruism. And a beer run no less. It doesn't get any better than this. Guys I can't thank you enough.
451
I am afraid. THe times we live in are totally out of whack if these cats cant just get credit for being heroes. We need Frank Capra.
59
Read the article again, Earnest. They carried the backpack to an unpopulated area so no one would get hurt. Yes, they're heroes. These are good men.
Trump would have tried to sell it but not before putting his name on it in big letters.
Or he would have donated it to charity and claimed a huge deduction.
So . . .
Yes, these men are heroes.
Trump would have tried to sell it but not before putting his name on it in big letters.
Or he would have donated it to charity and claimed a huge deduction.
So . . .
Yes, these men are heroes.
37
Sorry Earnest. My very bad. I didn't even read your comment right. I'm an idiot. Long day.
Yes, you're right.
Yes, you're right.
6
Which is what earnest says, read it again roger
1
Cultural entitlement? The largess of the internet? Is Ms. Bellafante serious? Is she an unreconstructed Reaganite? Platforms like GoFundMe.com allow people with charitable intentions to help others without the means to get on with projects, get out of a hole and otherwise improve their lives. Donors know where the money is going, what it's going to, and make the choice to fund. Only a well-heeled, let-them-eat-twinkies Republican interested in maintaining an economic structure that keeps the have-nots having nothing would question its worth.
103
You are right. The language chosen here is disturbing. My wife and I have tried in vitro to start our own family due to infertility. We are fortunate in that our income allows us to attempt to cover (with the help of credit cards) the $30k cost. Many young couples (appx 1 in 10) who have similar issues cannot afford it on their own and have no other alternative. A Go Fund Me is a great idea for a young couple without the resources. To liken this to a trip to New Zealand is appalling. This article should be amended immediately for this deeply insensitive remark.
30
Sir, with all due respect, waiting till you have the big house with white picket fence before starting family is like wanting your cake and eating it too.
1
Come to Europe. In most countries the first three tries on IVF are free or otherwise covered by Insurance (that everyone has at reasonable prices without first having a medical checkup, Insurance companies have to take all comers and the monthly rate in my country is about $ 150 for a full coverage, including dental that is optional). The basic rate is $ 90.
What the charity did was questionable, to say the least. What the men did was not. They should get all the money.
51
I disagree. They would not have been given a dime had it not been for the charity. The charity will go on to help many others. I'm glad the guys were recipients and they really deserve even more, as someone already said, decent jobs so they can keep going with honor and integrity! Yeah, sometimes people fall into poverty, and sometimes things happen and they can climb out!
1
So how do we give to them apart from GoFundMe?
19
.
.
Give a few thousand dollars to the charity, and split the rest between the 2 guys.
They might also be given:
- Keys to the City at a mayoral ceremony
- Stickers, ID cards, or whatnot ensuring that they are not denied the right to vote for misspelling a candidate's middle name; and also ensuring that they not be killed while driving.
- Perhaps a half hour to drink beer outdoors with Barack Obama.
- Part of the reward for information leading to the arrest and conviction of a multiple (attempted) murderer.
- An appearance on "Dr. Oz", where they could claim to look 30 years younger than they are.
Also, if either of them has some sort of ailment keeping them from remembering or repeating facts, the Republican Pary should give them nominations.
.
Give a few thousand dollars to the charity, and split the rest between the 2 guys.
They might also be given:
- Keys to the City at a mayoral ceremony
- Stickers, ID cards, or whatnot ensuring that they are not denied the right to vote for misspelling a candidate's middle name; and also ensuring that they not be killed while driving.
- Perhaps a half hour to drink beer outdoors with Barack Obama.
- Part of the reward for information leading to the arrest and conviction of a multiple (attempted) murderer.
- An appearance on "Dr. Oz", where they could claim to look 30 years younger than they are.
Also, if either of them has some sort of ailment keeping them from remembering or repeating facts, the Republican Pary should give them nominations.
78
MTF Tobin: I do believe this is the best comment I have read on any website. Ever. Simultaneously hysterical and a devastating depiction of our times. Thanks for sharing
4
Just let the two guys split all the money. They deserve it, it's theirs. They risked life and limb to protect the public, right? What is there to argue about here?
I find it interesting that a charity is essentially using these two souls to make a buck. It appears that neither of the two men received any benefits from said charity previously.
That's how it is in these brave new times: not only are the government and politicians on the take--for example, the highly questionable "charity" Clinton Family Foundation--but now even the real charities seem to be in on the act as well.
Nice country.
I find it interesting that a charity is essentially using these two souls to make a buck. It appears that neither of the two men received any benefits from said charity previously.
That's how it is in these brave new times: not only are the government and politicians on the take--for example, the highly questionable "charity" Clinton Family Foundation--but now even the real charities seem to be in on the act as well.
Nice country.
33
Clinton Foundation is not questionable. It does great work, connects donors to important causes and has high marks from charity watchdogs. It's been very respected in the philanthropic community for years.
99
There's nothing remotely questionable about the Clinton Family Foundation.
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/9/22/12893444/clinton-founda...
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/9/22/12893444/clinton-founda...
1
If people want to donate money to these guys, they should be able to donate. Why would anyone get upset about that? Being hyper-critical of anything and everything must be exhausting.
481
Welcome to the Internet, where everyone devolves into a wounded 12-year old with an axe to grind.
1
Way to go!! You guys save us from more "bombs" from a "radical Islamic terrorist"!! Since the last two attacks have targeted gay communities and neighborhoods in Orlando and NYC I'm personally grateful to you! Should HRC get miraculously elected you should know it was your vigilance that saved her too!
22
Yeah, what's with Ms. Bellafonte's snarky comments about Capt. Sullenberger? Inappropriate and juvenile reporting.
102
If you read it as snarky. I'm as big a fan of Sully as anyone, but that line made me laugh out loud.
4
Tom Hanks can land the exact same plane in the Hudson, for Pete's sake, that's what's up.
3
I think a $5 fee for all who ride NJ transit into or through the area (you'd pay a little extra for a single day to avoid a delay, right?), plus another $1 for all residents of Elizabeth and $0.50 for all residents of cities surrounding Elizabeth.
10
These men are the good guys! No begrudging them a monetary thanks. Let's face it...many would have dropped the backpack and run without reporting it to the police. They deserve whatever folks wish to give. Honorable men. Thank you!
371
If people want to reward folks for doing good deeds, let them. If you don't agree, don't contribute. The men and women who contribute felt like doing something for members of our society who are "down on their luck". They were doing what they felt would help and as a way of saying thank you. So, as we used to say, and may still do, "lead, follow, or get out of the way".
89
These two men are heroes and should be treated as such. That they removed the back pack to a less populated area while risking their own lives to do so says a lot about them.
They are obviously poor and have not done well to no fault of their own.
The classic - "If you see something - say something". These two men went well beyond that - hopefully some responsible people will help them to become gainfully employed.
They are obviously poor and have not done well to no fault of their own.
The classic - "If you see something - say something". These two men went well beyond that - hopefully some responsible people will help them to become gainfully employed.
129
They are two po' scavengers. When they discovered there is probably a bomb in the backpack they did their civic duty and took it to the police. They are lucky the thing did not blow up in their faces. But there is nothing particularly heroic about their intentions. And there is no reward for what have happened to them. However, since they are dirt poor due to poor luck, basically, and now they inadvertently saved the day, they should definitely be recognized and rewarded. But I agree, and I think they agree, that the reward should be shared in a way to help elevate others in a similar situation in their impoverished hood.
10
Your cynicism is painful....I'm sorry you see the world as you do.
21
Would the contemptuous Mr. Skoric have transported the bombs, at the risk of his life, to a place where they would not cause harm? Right, I thought so. Don't judge and you will not be judged.
25
When I read the line in this comment "blow up in their faces", I knew this was not going to be an enlightening post.
The Kardashians are OK but Sully is not?
25
What was the point of this article? Was it really worth the NYT?
And, pretty snarky about Sully Sullenberger. Made me think of the time I was boasting about my late brother appearing twice on Oprah's show and someone saying...Oh, big deal. Makes me want to say to the author...why don't you land a fully occupied passenger jet on a river? Maybe you'd get why all the accolades.
And, pretty snarky about Sully Sullenberger. Made me think of the time I was boasting about my late brother appearing twice on Oprah's show and someone saying...Oh, big deal. Makes me want to say to the author...why don't you land a fully occupied passenger jet on a river? Maybe you'd get why all the accolades.
68
I might give to crowdfunding if it is an exceptionally hard case of local interest, where I feel some sort of community tie. But wildly giving to the Kickstarter du Jour... No.
4
And just what led to your needing to make this kind of self-justifying comment? Do you think anyone cares if you--or I--give to the "Kickstarter du Jour..." or not?
8
Seriously - anger and outrage over two HEROES being recognized and applauded for their outstanding heroism risking their lives to save others??!
Begrudging these two heroes the recognition and yes, a few thousand dollars that they didn't even ask for? Begrudging two charitable organizations raising some funds for their good works?
But not begrudging, say, Donald Trump for his fake "Trump University" that bilked MILLIONS from hard-working people striving for the American Dream?
Where's THAT story in the NY Times?
And what's with Ms. Bellafonte's snarky comments about Capt. Sullenberger? How many pilots have the skill to carry out that landing - the split-second judgment that required - and the quiet strength to keep his head and lead everyone to safety - that saved all their lives?
And in answer to your question, Ms. Bellafonte, in this case, we DO owe Mr. Parker and Mr. White more than honor and respect - of which I'd guess they've had little in their lives. So yes, let's start with the cash - plus good jobs, a decent place to live, and good health care - you know, the basics.
Mr. White and Mr. Parker risked their lives to save others - it's the ultimate heroism. Period.
There's something seriously wrong with people who, instead of being grateful to heroes like these men and Mr. Sullenberger, feel compelled to belittle and insult them.
Begrudging these two heroes the recognition and yes, a few thousand dollars that they didn't even ask for? Begrudging two charitable organizations raising some funds for their good works?
But not begrudging, say, Donald Trump for his fake "Trump University" that bilked MILLIONS from hard-working people striving for the American Dream?
Where's THAT story in the NY Times?
And what's with Ms. Bellafonte's snarky comments about Capt. Sullenberger? How many pilots have the skill to carry out that landing - the split-second judgment that required - and the quiet strength to keep his head and lead everyone to safety - that saved all their lives?
And in answer to your question, Ms. Bellafonte, in this case, we DO owe Mr. Parker and Mr. White more than honor and respect - of which I'd guess they've had little in their lives. So yes, let's start with the cash - plus good jobs, a decent place to live, and good health care - you know, the basics.
Mr. White and Mr. Parker risked their lives to save others - it's the ultimate heroism. Period.
There's something seriously wrong with people who, instead of being grateful to heroes like these men and Mr. Sullenberger, feel compelled to belittle and insult them.
273
There is so much hyperbole nowadays - "ultimate heroism?" I'm sure we could find more heroic deeds if we tried. The word hero is overused nowadays, and that is what these quibbles are about.
These two people certainly did the right thing, they are good citizens and should be recognized for it. If people wish to reward them, that's great too. I wish them the best and I wish everybody was a bit more like them. I suspect many would not have acted so responsibly -- they would have taken cover and called 911, rather than ensuring the safety of everybody who might have come close to that trash can by removing the backpack and putting it in a safer area.
Beyond that, I don't see how anyone could object to giving to a homeless organization, as that would help people in similar need. In any case, the recipients of the donations are clearly listed and nobody is forcing anybody to donate.
These two people certainly did the right thing, they are good citizens and should be recognized for it. If people wish to reward them, that's great too. I wish them the best and I wish everybody was a bit more like them. I suspect many would not have acted so responsibly -- they would have taken cover and called 911, rather than ensuring the safety of everybody who might have come close to that trash can by removing the backpack and putting it in a safer area.
Beyond that, I don't see how anyone could object to giving to a homeless organization, as that would help people in similar need. In any case, the recipients of the donations are clearly listed and nobody is forcing anybody to donate.
2
Thank you and bravos to Mr. Parker and Mr. White! True heroes!
I pray that you are both blessed with good jobs, nice, affordable homes, and good health - so that you can live with dignity and comfort the rest of your lives.
Btw, anyone who works or volunteers in programs for the homeless is struck by how often, homeless men and women show kindness and generosity to each other and to others as well.
But Mr. White and Mr. Parker showed the highest level of heroism - willing to risk their lives to save the lives of others. They deserve no less than our highest gratitude and respect.
I pray that you are both blessed with good jobs, nice, affordable homes, and good health - so that you can live with dignity and comfort the rest of your lives.
Btw, anyone who works or volunteers in programs for the homeless is struck by how often, homeless men and women show kindness and generosity to each other and to others as well.
But Mr. White and Mr. Parker showed the highest level of heroism - willing to risk their lives to save the lives of others. They deserve no less than our highest gratitude and respect.
322
since the original backpack will be used as evidence let him have a backpack. not everything everybody does needs to have financial gain
They took action at their own peril to move the backpack to a safer area and then reported it. They did this all for no financial motivation just good citizenship. If some of us wish to offer them a reward for their selfless service why begrudge that effort
68
I don't think the expectations of what we "owe" people who've done good has changed at all. Only the way we communicate and collect the funds has changed in this era of apps and websites. Collecting funds for those in need or for those who have done heroic acts has been around for ages. GoFundMe is just an easier, more global way of getting the message out and collecting the money. What do we "owe" Mr. Parker and Mr. White? Well, that's up to the individual and if there are people who want to thank them in the form of contributions, they have every right to do that. I think this article went in the wrong direction. The backlash isn't toward these gentlemen. It's toward the trend of people and organizations setting up these pages to collect on others' behalf, sometimes without ever meeting the people they purport to be helping and, yes, that is suspect as you don't really know where that money is going. But in the case of showing our gratitude to Mr. Parker and Mr. White? I believe they deserve every cent of the money collected. Yes, they are true heroes and saved many lives. They helped us and we, in turn, can help them.
50
This is a different kind of comment : if the bomb blew up on them , could u imagine the investigation and who they were ?
25
No doubt they'd be smeared as terrorists themselves. They would be vilified - and no one would ever know they were actually heroes.
Another reason to be grateful to these two heroes.
Another reason to be grateful to these two heroes.
33
The hand of God put you in those circumstances.
You were used for good through the strangest of fates.
That's a good thing.
You were used for good through the strangest of fates.
That's a good thing.
28
Thank You so much Mr. Parker and Mr. White! They even had concern about the explosives could harm someone...Well done.
171
The $21,000 raised could be important money to these guys. They seem to have done a civil service and without any expectation of recompense. Why do we need to deconstruct this?
The nice thing about crowd-funding is that, like buying a lottery ticket, you realize that the odds of any real success may be quite limited. But it feels good nonetheless.
Here's hoping that everyone who contributed did so in that lottery spirit and that Mr. Parker and Mr. White now get a head start with their serendipity.
So with the bomber caught and the damage limited, let's all move on. Nothing further to see here.
The nice thing about crowd-funding is that, like buying a lottery ticket, you realize that the odds of any real success may be quite limited. But it feels good nonetheless.
Here's hoping that everyone who contributed did so in that lottery spirit and that Mr. Parker and Mr. White now get a head start with their serendipity.
So with the bomber caught and the damage limited, let's all move on. Nothing further to see here.
327
I think that was such a courageous act what these two men did. Would I have done the same or would I have just run quickly away and then phoned authorities? Would I have even noticed? They deserve the money and Mr. Parker deserves a job. He might be really good in the security field, and we all know we need better folks in that field.
88
The snarky comment about Captain Sullenberger implies that his accomplishment was a routine part of his job. We have heard, many times, that it required exceptional skill and concentration, and that relatively few pilots would have been able to pull it off as successfully. Maybe we've been misinformed, but if you think that's the case, you should offer an explanation.
149
Don't buy all the Sully hype. His butt was on the line too. As Chuck Yeagar said about crash landing a airplane "I never even noticed any schools down there".
The only reason pilots really need to be in the cockpit is for when a unusual situation happens and yes he was doing what he was paid to do.
Yes I have 40 years on the technical side of the airline industry.
The only reason pilots really need to be in the cockpit is for when a unusual situation happens and yes he was doing what he was paid to do.
Yes I have 40 years on the technical side of the airline industry.
5
Technical being the operative word in your comment...
1
If I could, I'd hire both of these brave men in an instant.
55
Two times I've paid into crowdfunding: Once to help a wonderful man who had lost his job and his home and was down on his luck and sleeping in his car to get on his feet again. The second time to help fund an elementary school class to see a play on Broadway. Both of these efforts I found to be worth while. Honeymoons and plastic surgery and 'need to furnish my apartment' causes I find to be ridiculous and ridicule worthy. You need to have a barometer in your head of what is worth it and what isn't. Not all crowdfunding is a bad thing.
On a related note, I think these two guys did everyone a solid and I don't begrudge them one cent of what they might receive from this crowdfunding effort.
On a related note, I think these two guys did everyone a solid and I don't begrudge them one cent of what they might receive from this crowdfunding effort.
144
Well, they may be ridiculous--to you, at least--but so what? No one is compelled to participate in crowdfunding for any cause, so what does it matter if someone puts up something you find ridiculous or the author of this article considers "cultural entitlement"?
3
More than deserving.Let them have it.Many people today want to help and are able to do so!
70
I've read this article twice and I am still trying to process how the New York Times could provide more coverage and express more alleged "public outrage" over these two men receiving a few thousand badly-needed dollars for their public service than it did when Chris Christie defrauded the entire state of New Jersey by letting Exxon/Mobil walk away from a $9,000,000,000 court judgment. The Times did not allow comments on the brief article documenting Christie's massive give-way and the story vanished without a trace.
564
The lack of a comments sections for NYT articles happens a staggering number of instances! Thanks for the reminder! Simply said, the two guys are remarkable heroes who saved the public, Christie is a crook who bilked the public!
4
Thank you both for your bravery, thoughtfulness and quick-thinking. You have our gratitude and respect.
285
I just donated. Lee and Ivan did a great mitzvah.
115
While I agree wholeheartedly that many crowdfunding campaigns are part of "a great vessel of cultural entitlement that has people depending on the largess of the internet for what, in the old days, they would pay for themselves", I strongly disagree with the choice to lump "gender-reassignment surgery" (and, to some extent, "in vitro fertilization") with "creative vanity projects" and "trips to New Zealand". Gender reassignment is anything but based on vanity (or creativity) for a transgender person who seeks to undertake the highly-structured process - it is based on the fundamental desire, need and right to live in a physical body that matches his or her or their gender identity.
Unfortunately, given the current state of the medical and insurance establishment, as well as the historical lack of resources available to transgender people, a transgender person will likely need outside funds, like those from crowdsourcing, to obtain necessary surgery. Such a crowdsourcing is anything but vanity-driven or based in unfounded cultural entitlement. We can and should do better.
Unfortunately, given the current state of the medical and insurance establishment, as well as the historical lack of resources available to transgender people, a transgender person will likely need outside funds, like those from crowdsourcing, to obtain necessary surgery. Such a crowdsourcing is anything but vanity-driven or based in unfounded cultural entitlement. We can and should do better.
23
Anyone who chooses not to fund something, be it gender reassignment or a trip to New Zealand is perfectly free not to do so. Considering the percentage of contributions that many charities retain for fundraising - including golf outings, etc., crowdfunding is an efficient and welcome alternative.
8
Come to think of it . . . Mr. White and Mr. Parker did a much better job than the "investigation" the FBI after the suspect's father warned law enforcement TWO years ago to "keep an eye on my son, son is a terrorist."
Mr. White and Mr. Parker investigated and took action to their own great peril.
Mr. White and Mr. Parker investigated and took action to their own great peril.
144
The name of their campaign on the gofundme site is "hometown heroes". You can search for the name of their campaign.
54
What exactly is wrong with these guys getting some money? They could have been blown up for what they did.
200
I donated money to them . They look like fine people down on their luck with a job market they have had trouble plugging into . Nevertheless , great smart guys . There should be a parade in their honor .
Oh and thanks NY Times for picking this up. I was so sad other media outlets did not report on their bravery . I am renewing my subscription when i get a few more dollars . Thanks You
Oh and thanks NY Times for picking this up. I was so sad other media outlets did not report on their bravery . I am renewing my subscription when i get a few more dollars . Thanks You
92
Try crowdfunding for your subscription!!!!
1
THANK YOU!
Mr. White & Mr. Parker are made of "The Right Stuff." I am humbled by your decency and selflessness in protecting the lives of strangers from a FIVE BOMBS. It is interesting that your heroic act has inspired other strangers to show their appreciation. You are good men. Perhaps you can teach others about nobility and humility because good character and and a backbone made of steel are sorely missing. (Deplorable Donald & his band of thugs come to mind.) We are blessed "to depend on the kindness of strangers." We are not always responsible for personal misfortune. I know that too well. I applaud both of you, and wish you all the grace and better fortune in the years to come. May God hold you in the palm of His hand, and keep you safe. as you did for us.
Mr. White & Mr. Parker are made of "The Right Stuff." I am humbled by your decency and selflessness in protecting the lives of strangers from a FIVE BOMBS. It is interesting that your heroic act has inspired other strangers to show their appreciation. You are good men. Perhaps you can teach others about nobility and humility because good character and and a backbone made of steel are sorely missing. (Deplorable Donald & his band of thugs come to mind.) We are blessed "to depend on the kindness of strangers." We are not always responsible for personal misfortune. I know that too well. I applaud both of you, and wish you all the grace and better fortune in the years to come. May God hold you in the palm of His hand, and keep you safe. as you did for us.
205
It took great courage to move the bomb to a safe place before notifying the police. Most people would have seen that pressure cooker and run like crazy. They deserve every penny.
792
And, more.
43
Compared to the ridiculous gofundme accounts out there raising money for no good reason, these guys deserve every penny they get. How many of us would CARRY A BAG FULL OF BOMBS to an unpopulated area, much less report it? I wish I was filthy rich, I'd give these guys enough to live comfortably for life.
429
The people who donated to the GoFundMe campaign obviously did so of their own volition. What am I missing?
86
The campaign was started to reward these two gentlemen -- they should get whatever was raised. Heaven knows that can use it. It makes me sick to read that other organizations want a piece of the action. Elizabeth Coalition should not get one penny!
greed, greed, greed - money is all they want.
greed, greed, greed - money is all they want.
37
Apparently you missed the part in the article which states that the Elizabeth Coalition "Mr. Parker said, is now working on finding him permanent housing."
So Mr. Parker feels the Coalition is helping him - and neither of the men seems to begrudge the two charitable organizations getting part of the funds - so what's your problem?
Sounds as if these are two organizations that work to do some good in the world - and this campaign is also helping them raise awareness about homelessness.
What good do YOU do? Or do you just spread negativity to ensure that no good deeds go unpunished?
So Mr. Parker feels the Coalition is helping him - and neither of the men seems to begrudge the two charitable organizations getting part of the funds - so what's your problem?
Sounds as if these are two organizations that work to do some good in the world - and this campaign is also helping them raise awareness about homelessness.
What good do YOU do? Or do you just spread negativity to ensure that no good deeds go unpunished?
31
These guys deserve the money and the gratitude of New Yorkers and New Jerseyans. God bless them and I wish them well.
114
Thank you for your service Mr. Parker and Mr. White. You saved lives indeed.
91
One could only hope that some NYT reader has a couple of jobs that need filling. And as far as those who object to the crowd funding of a couple of guys who need the money and did the right thing because it was the right thing -- shame.
115
I too am sick of the crowdfunding wave, but I don't think your derision applies here. Nor is Sully Sullenberger, who crash landed a disabled plane with no loss of life just a guy doing his 9-to-5. Ordinary people do great things. These guys could have just left the backpack and knocked back some cool ones. Maybe it wouldn't of mattered, but luckily we'll never know.
136
What did you expect Sully to do just sit there and die. Yes that was he was paid to do.
3
Not only were they alert, but they took the serious personal risk of moving the item to a location where it would be less likely to hurt someone. Cash for these men is not like carrying coals to Newcastle. They can use it. It would be great if two respectable job offers came out of it for them as well.
214
This would make the ultimate buddy movie: "The Beer Run" where a la Harold and Kumar ridiculousness they go out for beer and find a bomb ending up in a controversy over crowdfunding because thats what happens when you are preparing for a job interview
90
Excellent!
8
Hey, Ivan and Lee!
I go past that place several times a week.
THANK YOU SO MUCH!
I go past that place several times a week.
THANK YOU SO MUCH!
191
They did save other's lives, and they knowingly risked their own to do this. They deserve whatever good that can come their way. It's a reminder about not ever judging anyone unless you've walked in their shoes, no?
231
While they risked their own lives to save others, and creditably so, it remains true that the device they found was never detonated by the terrorist.
In another time, these men would have good jobs at unionized factories. In another time, stable blue-collar neghborhoods would not be eaten up by gentrification schemes from urban renewal to simply buying everything up, and there would be housing for all but the deeply mentally ill who would be cared for.
188
Well, Jersey likes Trump, so that'll never happen.
6
No we don't.
28
I hope PubliusMaximus is right about Trump, but NJ did vote for Christie.
17
I hope the backlash does not discourage these people.
Keep it rolling!
Keep it rolling!
62
Honor and respect might suffice if there were a safety net for people who lose their jobs and can't find other employment, but they don't pay the rent.
343
i think we are down to 2-3 points of light now.......
3
Hats off to these two. Unbelievable bravery and what's missing from our abacus handlers at the weighted down bureaucracies: good common sense. They certainly deserve the money.
122
Message to beer guy: You can buy a new backpack for the price of a 12 pack.
16
What a deplorable thing to say.
56
Thanks for the spending tip, but you miss the point. Not only did they stop for the backpack, but upon realizing its contents, they also picked it up, placed it in an underpopulated area, and then notified the police - that is why they are being commended.
120
So what?! These two men are poor and have nothing - so you begrudge them a few beers?!?
When they saw the backpack contained 5 BOMBS, they risked their own lives to carry it to a place where it would be less likely to hurt anyone.
That makes them HEROES. Unlike you.
When they saw the backpack contained 5 BOMBS, they risked their own lives to carry it to a place where it would be less likely to hurt anyone.
That makes them HEROES. Unlike you.
73
I'm grateful to them for seeing something and saying something. The potential for lots of people getting hurt was there, and they may have saved a lot of people a lot of grief.
317
Good article describing two decent citizens who did the right thing. Surely someone has a job opening for Mr. Parker in that area, a straight up guy he would make a good employee. A few dollars for Mr. White will help him out, he earned it. Thanks guys!
456
Something good always comes out of beer run.
525
"Alcohol, the cause, and solution, to all of life's problems." - Homer Simpson
4
The men should take that money with heads raised high. They acted with sincere intentions and public safety was their prime concern. Those who say "no" should just mind their own business.
594
So people are begrudging these men, and a charity serving the homeless, a few thousand dollars? The word for that is "deplorable."
746
I don't know what these guys are owed, nor do I want to comment on the charity. but I just want to say that for sheer guts they are aces!
613